# Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, old thread was a little... big. Should have started a new one sooner probably . Old one can be found here http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/516783-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread.html if anyone wants to look through it any time .


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Didn't Tito Santana beat Taker clean at a show in Mexico in like 1991?


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## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Didn't Tito Santana beat Taker clean at a show in Mexico in like 1991?


Yup. First time 'Taker lost in WWE.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sting, Booker T, Goldberg & Kronik Vs Kevin Nash, Jeff Jarrett, Scott Steiner & Vince Russo - War Games - Nitro 04/11/2000

It's a War Games match in the year 2000 on Nitro and NOT on PPV featuring Vince Russo. For the WCW title. Even though it's a team match. Triple cage too. And anyone can win the match and the title BEFORE all the competitors enter the match. If someone does get the title belt from on top of the cage, they then have to LEAVE the cage to win. So someone could take it from them and win by doing almost fuck all. If you didn't think this was gonna suck from the get go, the announcer claiming that Jarrett and Sting are the two best wrestlers in the world just as the match starts should make it more clear . Also, why is the heel team 1 member short? Shouldn't the babyfaces have the disadvantage if there is gonna be one?

Sting and Jarrett... do some stuff. Then Steiner comes in and does some stuff, then Kronik come out and enter the match. Together. At the same time. And apparently it could have been another heel too instead of Kronik. Did they forget that War Games like, had rules and shit?

Russo comes out with a helmet because he has a concussion. And the Harris Brothers climb the cage on the outside to get Kronik who are trying to kill Steiner.

:lmao Tony tries to put Nash over as being a smart champion, saying that he asked Nash earlier what his strategy was, and apparently Nash said he would stand by the door and wait for people to come down with the belt and take it from them. So what does Nash ACTUALLY do? Runs into the ring and beats people up. LOL.

Nash is supposed to be on Russo's team, but keeps trying to kill him which is pretty funny. Then Goldberg comes in and has the chance to kill him but Russo gets the better of him. With a baseball bat, but still; Russo beat Goldberg lol.

Oh hey, Sting is in this match. He just flops around doing fuck all. BEST WRASTLER IN TEH WORLD!

Somehow everyone ends up in the second cage, which is odd because all the heels were controlling everyone in the ring one second and the next the babyfaces were somehow able to climb a ladder without being stopped. This entire match just makes NO SENSE. From the rules, the way its booked, how everyone performs... NO SENSE.

Booker T gets the belt, then gets killed on the way down and Russo gets it. Then gets kicked in the head by The Cat. And then The Cat gets a powerbomb for his troubles. Then Goldberg decides he can escape from his handcuffs. Maybe he should have done that, I dunno, 5 minutes ago? Ah well. Goldberg tries to leave with the belt, and Bret Hart slams the door into his face. Where the fuck did Bret come from? Aren't there enough guys already in the match? Nash then hugs Russo and walks out with the belt. Ok.

Only reason I watched this is because I'm downloading all the War Games matches and this finished first. Pile of fucking retarded shit.

Rating: DUD


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I loved me some Tito Santana but what an interesting guy to beat Taker for the first time. 

I did read an article that before Bret Hart got his singles push Vince was flirting with the idea of pushing Tito instead and make him IC champ again and give him a run with the winged eagle to expand their fan base in Mexico.


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Undertaker has had an incredible string of classics at WrestleMania in the last five years. How would you guys rank his matches from WM23 - WM27? I say

1. Taker/HBK WM25
2. Taker/HBK WM26
3. Taker/HHH WM27
4. Taker/Batista WM23 
5. Taker/Edge WM24

Thing is I could go back and forth on 1 & 2 being the best and 3-5 too. They are some of my favorite matches ever and I expect WM28 to be added to the mix this year. Undertaker's single performances in them are all time great performances from any wrestler ever especially WM26.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1. Taker/HBK WM26 - *****
2. Taker/HBK WM25 - *****
3. Taker/HHH WM27 - ****3/4
4. Taker/Batista WM23 - ****1/2
5. Taker/Edge WM24 - ****1/2


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao:lmao:lmao at how ridiculous that War Games match sounds.


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## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

I thought WM 26 between HBK/Taker was better than WM 25. Most disagree with me but the match was great and it had a better ending.


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

1. Taker/Michaels WM25
2. Taker/Batista WM23
3. Taker/Edge WM24
4. Taker/Michaels WM26

Haven't seen the match with HHH, and i'm not nearly as high on the WM26 rematch as everyone else, 25 was leaps and bounds better imo. I'm honestly not even a big fan of the Edge match from 24 either so it ranking 3 doesn't mean too much, it's prob on par, or slightly better than WM26 in my eyes, but not by much. Both were disappointing to me. The WM25 match was jut fantastic though, I'd go **** 1/2+ on it easily. The WM23 match with Batista was great too, one of my favorite main event title matches at WM from the last 10 yrs (along with HHH/Cena, and the Triple Threat from WM20). 

WM26 as a whole was just a lackluster show to me, it was good, but for a Wrestlemania, and the card it had, it not only Could've been better, it Should've been better. The time limit for the matches were just criminal. 

This year WM has so much potential, but I'm highly skeptical that the time will be spread like it should, that always seems to be the "achilles heel" for these shows, along with the odd match placement, I don't quite understand having World Championship matches going on first. Oh well though, what do I know?


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## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Eddie vs Jericho from SuperBrawl '97 and i can't believe how dead the crowd was.

Very sad.


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## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Eddie vs. Jericho would be a World Heavyweight Championship match in todays WWE.


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## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

vs. Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XXV - ****1/2
vs. Triple H - WrestleMania XXVII - ****1/4
vs. Edge - WrestleMania XXIV - ****
vs. Batista - WrestleMania 23 - ****
vs. Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XXVI - ***1/4

vs. HBK at WM XXV is just a perfect match, even though I knew there was no way HBK would end the streak just a year after retiring Ric Flair.

The match against Triple H really is my personal favorite, though I do agree with a lot of people that it has a lot of finishers and lulls, but I think that's part of the drama.

vs. Edge was a great main event, that somehow brought the crowd back to life after Ric Flair retired, Orton/HHH/Cena, and Mayweather/Big Show. It built slow, but paid off in the end.

I love the match against Batista, but not as much as I used to. I think now it serves as an introductory chapter to this series of people being determined to end the streak (along with Orton at WM 21). The match is nonstop and exciting, I just wish it had been longer.

Not a fan of WM XXVI. Thought the match was just too conventional. Leg work. Woo hoo. Masked UT's weaknesses but didn't really create an exciting match. HBK is my favorite wrestler, so please trust me when I say this match seriously underwhelmed me, and still does. It's just...there. Agree that the end is very awesome, though.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> :lmao:lmao:lmao at how ridiculous that War Games match sounds.


I have it at ***** :argh:

Wasn't the ending, Nash just hit whoever was coming towards the gate and walked out of it all casual? Hell man. And when you ask yourself who's booked this shit, you needn't look further than the moron in the football helmet.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Killswitch Stunner said:


> I thought WM 26 between HBK/Taker was better than WM 25. Most disagree with me but the match was great and it had a better ending.


I'm in complete agreement with you and I know a few regulars in this thread are as well, there's actually quite a nice split in terms of the established group of posters in this thread as to which is better which makes a nice change from everyone usually being in agreement regarding underrated/overrated matches and workers etc.

Personally, the selling from Taker was better than anything in both matches, though the Houston crowd are close. The legwork was really sweet with HBK busting out offence he hadn't used in a while (his version of the figure four he began using during the Flair feud in 08) and call back spots not only to last year's match (HBK faking out Taker with SCM to see if his leg was actually hurt or he was playing mind games like HBK did the year prior) but also to past Taker matches such as Michaels busting out Angle's counter to the triangle choke/hells gate which pinned him at No Way Out 2006.

The story and drama building from Wrestlemania 24 with Michaels now playing Flair was just brilliant to see unfold and some of the nearfalls at the end had me convinced the match was done, plus the actual finish itself is just the absolute best way they could have ended such a match and milked the in ring story for all its worth. What really hurts it at times is the quieter crowd than we got the year before, as well as the finisher attempts not being as believable/engaging given what both men kicked out of at Wrestlemania 25 (personally I never agreed with that, seeing as Taker's numerous nearfalls had been a regular thing at Mania since the Batista match and how big a focal point the Streak had become since).

I find the actual body of work, in ring story (WM 25 whilst not being a spotfest was to me a WWE style version of a sprint match, only with greater character dynamics and charisma to create a big match atmosphere), selling and character portrayals by both men to be infinitely superior to Wrestlemania 25, not to mention the one potential botch in 26 actually added to the match (moonsault to the injured leg). 25 was sloppy in parts to me, and despite Taker's missed dive being a great spot to build drama...it would have worked much better at 26 in hindsight given the odds of a HBK win in principle seemed greater at the time what with them finally doing the same match 2 years running which had people at the time convinced the Streak was done. The drama in the 25 match really picks up after the botched dive, but I find they hadn't progressed the story/action enough for it to really create the feeling Taker was on his last legs, after all the punishment he took and his selling to play up the Phenom was in a massive fight at 26, that spot would have probably convinced everyone HBK was set to win.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ranking Taker's last few WM Matches:

1. Taker/HBK WM25- *****
2. Taker/HBK WM26- ****1/2
3. Taker/Batista WM23- ****1/2
4. Taker/Edge WM24- ****1/4
5. Taker/HHH WM27- ***1/2

WM25 has everything I could want in a match. It was a perfect match all around, and even the part that could've destroyed the match (Taker's mis-dive) actually ended up adding more drama and excitement to the match. 

WM26's in ring action, while still excellent wasn't quite as appealing to me. However the psychology by Michaels, selling by Taker, and storytelling were all up from the year prior. That being said the match as a whole just felt like it was missing something to keep it exciting, as I actually do occasionally fall asleep during it. It also didn't feel as smooth as WM25's match did. But yeah, still Taker's second best WM match ever.

Taker/Batista WM23 is my MOTY for that year, and what a match. Nobody expected what came from those two, but they went to war and it really felt like a clash of the titans. The pace was awesome, the work was awesome, and I really thought after the Batista bomb the match would be over. Just a hard-hitting match, and I loved it.

WM24's main event, Taker/Edge was another classic. I love how they had a slower pace to start to make up for the fact Edge can't believably take down Taker at every turn, to building up to the much better pace where Edge starts countering all of Taker's big moves and turning the tables on him. The first half of the match can be a bit dull but the last half imho had the makings of a ***** match. Still all the in-ring work was amazing, and the two delivered one of the best WM Main Events of all time. Only ones I can think of that would go above it are Taker/HBK WM26, Rock/Austin WM17, and Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20 off the top of my head.

WM27... simply put was a great match in terms of storytelling. But the gaps in between the action, the not-so-great wrestling, and the fact they sacrificed so much to put the emphasis on the story really makes this match a bore to watch. The best part of the match is the tombstone by HHH followed by Taker kicking out. This match doesn't come close to a classic in my book and it's not anywhere near MOTY territory. I'm giving this match what I gave it based on the storytelling/drama, the crowd, and the fact I'm a Taker mark and probably enjoy it a slight bit more because of that than I would have without him.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Forgot to add I'd probably rank the last 5 Taker matches:

WM26
WM23
WM25
WM27
WM24

The HHH match is really strange for me, in terms of going out to tell a story about Taker being unstoppable and a force that cannot be dealt with when it comes to Mania I thought it was epic, and the finish with HHH more or less fighting with everything he had to not accept he couldn't win was really well done....but then in between some of the stalling after kickouts didn't feel as organic as we've seen in previous years, especially the reaction to the Tombstone. I had no problem with the initial reaction even if going halfway back across the ring seemed a bit OTT...but then it seemed to go on forever and I couldn't look past the absurdity of HHH essentially letting Taker back into the match when he's on his last legs. I haven't rewatched it since I saw it live and then the day after but I'm content with calling it a great match to watch live given both men's starpower and the well layed out story of proving Taker was this unstoppable bastard who won't die at Wrestlemania...but it isn't a match I can see standing the test of time on future watches compared to other Taker classics. I get the impression with every watch some of the attempts at drama would lessen in impact over time and slowly but surely the overriding match story wouldn't be enough to keep the match in the 'great' category.

I really can't rate it but if I had to, ***1/2 seems about where I'd land on a scale. Plenty of good things to enjoy in the match, just execution and the bits in between some of the spots that needed more careful attention to increase the match quality.


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker's performance at WM26 is my single favorite performance ever from any wrestler. It was extraordinary to see live. How genius is it to have a match with so much hype and so much on the line and the man gets injured in the first 90 secs. of the match. That immediately turns this match upside down from the previous year and the sense of urgency was sooo high.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ranking Taker's last 5 WM bouts....

1. WM XXV: *****
2. WM XXVII: **** 3/4
3. WM XXVI: **** 3/4
4. WM XXIII: **** 1/4
5. WM XXIV: **** 1/4


Don't know why 27 gets bashed so much. It's a piece of art you fuckers !

WM XXV and XXVI can be interchanged based on personal taste most times, unless you're Brett Mix, who gave WM XXV **** because it didn't have Bret....I mean because it's climax was all about kicking out of finishers with minimal storytelling


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Word son ! Hit me up with the channel right now, I wanna check this shit outt.

Also, doing NWO 04 tomorrow (Or starting it, I got some studying/fucking to do), and outside the last three matches, I am HORRIFIED to watch this PPV. The first half looks HORRENDOUS. But we'll see. 

Join in on the chat homie, I'ma start off with asking you this one question:

Favorite Triple H match ?


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> vs. Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XXVI - ***1/4
> 
> Not a fan of WM XXVI. Thought the match was just too conventional. Leg work. Woo hoo. Masked UT's weaknesses but didn't really create an exciting match. HBK is my favorite wrestler, so please trust me when I say this match seriously underwhelmed me, and still does. It's just...there. Agree that the end is very awesome, though.


Someone agrees! I don't think I've seen anyone else on here (besides you and I) who rate this match as low as we have it. It just didn't have that "feel" to it that the 25 match had. I KNEW Michaels was gonna lose, so that in itself just took me out of it. I might have to watch it again to see how I like it now, as I've only seen it once (but it was only a few months ago).


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## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I didn't buy 26 that I recall, partly b/c of how much I disliked their match at 25. That said, I think his streak should only be allowed to count each opponent once.

Also, not a bad show tonight. The one thing that really surprised me: Last week & this week, Cena out-promo'ed Rock.


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## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

nungrun said:


> For those who are looking for the DVD reviews, search for nungrun and there should be the YouTube Channel.


I believe I corrected the order to make more sense.


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## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

I favorite Triple h match is probably him versus Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000


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## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Game1778 said:


> I favorite Triple h match is probably him versus Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000


I agree. Loved their stuff around that time. Every time I watch the match on Foley's "Hits & Misses" set. I wish they had both their PPV matches from that time. (Much the way I watch "Raw" now, wishing they announce Foley as Mania official.)


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Game1778 said:


> I favorite Triple h match is probably him versus Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000


Same with me.


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## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Undertaker's top WrestleMania matches in order would be:

*1. 26
2. 27
3. 25
4. 24
5. 23*

26 had flawless storytelling and execution. I can understand why people prefer 25 over it because 25 was a spectacle, while 26 was just wrestling at its best. It's the best match of Undertaker/Michaels series (26). It's not as glossy as WrestleMania 25 and I think that's what makes it a perfect match. You have two wrestlers here in a wrestling contest having a wrestling match. That's just it. It's so simple. The kind of match they have is exceptional and one of the best in WrestleMania history. I won't go on pin-pointing what was great and have a breakdown of the match, yet I appreciate one factor more than anything else and it's not the story of the match, it's the sincerity of both these legends. They didn't try to replicate 'Mania 25. They used it to create another classic in arguably a more simpler and precise manner.

27 is another match with superb storytelling. In fact, it was just like watching a movie, with two legends fighting each other and the action inside the ring revealed the story of the feud. Many people seem to fail to understand this while judging the match. After watching Michaels fail for two years in a row, Triple H knew what was needed to be done. He did it all but that Undertaker just wouldn't stop ticking. 27 was a larger than life commentary on the nature of the Streak. You wouldn't expect Hunter to use headlock takedowns. That's something that didn't work for Shawn at WrestleMania 25. Hunter was there to destroy Undertaker using his power moves and Undertaker was forced to wrestle that style because of Hunter's tenacity. You could see at the end--the Undertaker couldn't even walk and that never happened before. When those two were wrestling the match with such power and pressure, you can't expect them to get up as quickly as you would have preferred. This is not Hollywood, sorry.

The remaining matches--25, 24, and 23--aren't at the same level of those two, but are superb matches in their own way. I have Undertaker/Michaels I at **** 1/2. The match between Edge and Undertaker grew on me upon my last viewing. I came to appreciate the match much more as I was looking at Edge's stuff over the years. It's clear to call it the best straight up, wrestling match of Edge's career. The match at WrestleMania 23 is a very fun match to watch. It is perfect in a way because it is how two super-heavyweights should be wrestling and they built on that dynamic and produced a marvelous match.


On the Triple H topic, my favorite Triple H match is the Iron Man match against the Rock at Judgment Day 2000. Those are the best 60 minutes of my wrestling fandom.


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## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Game1778 said:


> I favorite Triple h match is probably him versus Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000


I might agree, but the first HHH/Cactus match in Sept '97 on Raw was pretty epic.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

25/ 5 stars
26/ 5 stars
27/ 4.5 stars (almost gave this 5...this match had a lot of haters but I loved it) 
24/ 4.5 stars
23/ 4 stars


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fav HHH match? Definitely has to be Street Fight with Cactus in 2000. While I'm far from a HHH fan these days, there are plenty of matches from pre-first quad injury that I like a lot. The SD match with Taka in 2000 where he was able to get EVERYONE believing that he could drop the belt is pretty fucking awesome. Not exactly high on the old star ratings list but it damn fun and incredible to watch.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think Jeff Hardy/Triple H from No Mercy might be my favorite. And I really like his 2nd and 3rd matches with Cena.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Fav HHH matches...

No Way Out 2000 V Foley
Royal Rumble 2000 V Foley
Summerslam 1997 V Foley\
Wrestlemania 20 V HBK and Benoit
3 Stages of Hell V Austin
Summerslam 1998 Ladder match V Rock...stole the show IMHO

I know for a fact Im missing some good matches but these are the 6 that come to mind right away


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vs Rock at Backlash might edge out the RR 00 match for me now I think about it. Tremendous fun. Just needed a different outcome :side:.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Backlash 2000 V Rock was awesome. You had to know Rock was going to win that one with as hot as he was (hosted SNL a few weeks earlier) and after just getting screwed at Mania.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah, I knew he was winning. I just didn't want him to. At all.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Would you guys recommend Wrestlemania 23 and the latest KOTR set?


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 23? Yes. KOTR set... only if you don't already own the bigger matches.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best HHH match to me is either the Backlash 2000 match v Rock or the Royal Rumble 2000 Street Fight v Foley. The Backlash match is a great character driven match with great overbooking to create a wonderfully chaotic environment and memorable atmosphere, finish is just the absolute bomb as well. Royal Rumble 2000 is without doubt his career defining match and is likely better as an actual match.

His best performance is either at Fully Loaded 2000 v Jericho or v Eugene at Summerslam 2004. Just a great methodical and heel performance against Jericho in one of the better LMS matches the company has put on, really felt like both men would rather kill the other than be content to leave him for 10 seconds which is a problem I have with a lot of LMS matches: for a match which features 2 guys who cannot stand each other there's an awful lot of stalling and spots where they're content to win the match but not inflict as much punishment as they could. Here a lot of the spots where both men go down and struggle to beat the count feel more organic and as a result of a war, rather than one man being lenient. V Eugene is just perhaps the best 'dickhead' HHH performance, everything from the berating of Lillian to his all out ass kicking of Eugene made him come across as the biggest prick on the planet.

My actual favourite HHH match though would probably be the Steel Cage match v Flair at Taboo Tuesday 2005, just an all out war between two men and a terrificly done steel cage match.


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## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

I thought WM 23 was one of the best in the last several years.

Am I the only one who thinks HHH vs. Hardy vs. Edge at Armaggedon '08 is a great match?


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd certainly recommend WM 23. (Y)

Not quite sure what the KOTR set looks like but I think I actually downloaded it before MU went down.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Outside of HBK/Cena and Taker/Batista Wrestlemania 23 was not very good imho. I was very excited for the Benoit/MVP match and they didn't even get 10 minutes. Plus, Ric Flair in a dark match is a fucking disgrace imho. The MitB was good and Kane V Khali was nothing short of terrible. 

The new KotR set is ok. They missed a lot of good matches. I have not bought it yet but will once it gets cheaper on amazon. I really miss this PPV.


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## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Just finished watching the Undertaker vs Kane (Champion vs Champion) match from 2008 and something struck me about the ending, when Edge, Chavo, Hawkins & Ryder intefere and cause a double DQ, something didn't feel right and it took me a few moments for it to hit me...

Edge & Chavo were wearing each others merchandise!









That's the best image i can find of it. Chavo is wearing the grey Rated R shirt and Edge was wearing a viva la raza one.

Was there any particular reason for this? Or is it a bit like Punk wearing the Austin shirt during "that" promo last year?

As for the match itself, much better than WM 20 and any of the matches they had together in 2010 and in the Taker/Kane series, I would probably only place WM 14 above it.


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## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

my 5 favorite mania's:

1)24
2)19
3)17
4)10
5)26,21


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

I'm going to rewatch Taker/Michaels WM26 and see how I like it. Might rewatch WM25 match too and compare. I still say I'll prefer WM25. I know the topic in here is shifting away from this already but idgaf lol


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KB from Kbwrestlingreviews.com just did a review of NM 03, in which he gave the Biker Chain match between Taker and Lesnar a D- grade.

I have this match at *** 1/2 from my last watch, how do you guys feel about the match ? Is the D- rating justified ?

Also, how many of you read KB's reviews consistently ? Smart fan who I agree/disagree with alot, like anybody else. Great reviewer though IMO.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My top 5 Mania's are..

1. IV
2. III
3. 20
4. 19
5. 17


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> KB from Kbwrestlingreviews.com just did a review of NM 03, in which he gave the Biker Chain match between Taker and Lesnar a D- grade.
> 
> I have this match at *** 1/2 from my last watch, how do you guys feel about the match ? Is the D- rating justified ?
> 
> Also, how many of you read KB's reviews consistently ? Smart fan who I agree/disagree with alot, like anybody else. Great reviewer though IMO.


I think I had it at the same rating as you on last watch, though it's been awhile. Taker/Brock did have some really good chemistry.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Taker V Brock at WM29 would be pretty sweet. However, I hope win or lose this is the last match for Taker.


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## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

More than likely, Cena/Taker next year will be his last but you never know.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I love Taker and you can't down-play his legendary status. It's safe to say there will never be another phenom. However, he will be 47 at Mania this year. I really hope this is his swan song. 

I mean Taker/Sting would be sweet but Sting will be 54 next Wrestlemania and Taker will be 48. Next year is probably the last chance for that. Taker/Rock would be badass next WM as well with Foley as the ref.


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## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Jaysin said:


> I'm going to rewatch Taker/Michaels WM26 and see how I like it. Might rewatch WM25 match too and compare. I still say I'll prefer WM25. I know the topic in here is shifting away from this already but idgaf lol


I'm not sure I even bought WM 26 when it happened, largely b/c I am one of the (apparently) few folks that disliked the first HBK-Taker match.

I listened to what HHH told Taker recently, & largely agreed, except I feel it will be a better company (& overall business) when we know he's not coming back.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Honestly if they're going to have the streak go pass 20-0, they may as well have Taker retire at WM30 and have his last match then.

WM29- vs. Brock
WM30- vs. Cena

If Taker doesn't retire by WM30, then only god knows when he retires.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Taker/Cena really needs to happen.


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## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

I always figured since a few years ago that he would not go out until 30, just cuz of the anniversary. But next year does seem likely but you never know. Vince might offer him enough money every year to keep him coming back for the next 5 years for all we know.


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## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Brye said:


> Taker/Cena really needs to happen.


You're kidding; Right?! We've Cena nough of Taker.

I feep waiting for him to follow Trips & Road Dogg into the off-camera, out-of-ring part of the company.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wondering what everybody's thoughts on the HHH-Orton match from WM 25 is ? General consensus is that it's shit, but I haven't seen it since it aired, in which I barely paid any attention too (VERY uninterested in wrestling at this stage in my life). Ratings anyone ?

Plus, anybody care to rank the Wrestlemania main events that they've seen ? I wouldn't be able to give a rating for the WM 8,9,11,16, and 25 matches. Might watch those when I get the chance.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I was at Reliant Stadium and witnessed the disappointment that was HHH vs. Randy Orton WrestleMania 25 main event. The match was booked completely wrong. This should have been a no holds barred fight with brawling in the all around ringside and in the crowd. There should have been run ins from the McMahons and Legacy. Chairshots, stair shots/spots, ring bell shots, etc. Most importantly, Orton should have won the damn match. In word to describe how I felt after watching this match live was underwhelmed. However, I did enjoy it much more when I watched it on DVD a couple months later. It's still not WRESTLEMANIA 25 MAIN EVENT worthy.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Clearly, I was _not_ there. However, I have a few comments.



Clique said:


> This should have been a no holds barred fight with brawling in the all around ringside and in the crowd.


Perhaps right.



Clique said:


> There should have been run ins from the McMahons and Legacy. Chairshots, stair shots/spots, ring bell shots, etc.


Can definitely see that.



Clique said:


> Most importantly, Orton should have won the damn match.


Yeah... Cause his career has been so hurt by that loss.



Clique said:


> However, I did enjoy it much more when I watched it on DVD a couple months later. It's still not WRESTLEMANIA 25 MAIN EVENT worthy.


Yes, it was, I am sure. If 20 was "Where it all begins again", 25 was "where everything (good & bad) gets overrated".


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'll agree the feud was worthy of the main event but how the match turned out was well below what I expected it to be quality -wise as the main event of WM25. Especially when the previous three WrestleManias had very strong main events.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Plus, anybody care to rank the Wrestlemania main events that they've seen ? I wouldn't be able to give a rating for the WM 8,9,11,16, and 25 matches. Might watch those when I get the chance.


1) Rock vs Austin - WM 17
2) HHH vs HBK vs Benoit - WM 20
3) Undertaker vs HBK - WM 26
4) Undertaker vs Edge - WM 24
5) HHH vs Cena - WM 22
6) Lesnar vs Angle - WM 19
7) Cena vs HBK - WM 23
8) HHH vs Jericho - WM 18
9) HHH vs Orton - WM 25
10)HHH vs Batista - WM 21
11)Cena vs Miz - WM 27


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Clique said:


> I was at Reliant Stadium and witnessed the disappointment that was HHH vs. Randy Orton WrestleMania 25 main event. The match was booked completely wrong. This should have been a no holds barred fight with brawling in the all around ringside and in the crowd. There should have been run ins from the McMahons and Legacy. Chairshots, stair shots/spots, ring bell shots, etc. Most importantly, Orton should have won the damn match. In word to describe how I felt after watching this match live was underwhelmed.


I agree 100% with this. When it ended the only thought I could muster was "was that it?" and I barely ever have that kind of reaction. I have no clue whose idea it was to have the stipulation that the title changes hands on a DQ, but Orton at least knew it was the completely wrong way to go.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Spring Stampede 1999*

Juventud Guerrera vs. Blitzkrieg - ****
Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Hak - ***1/4
Scotty Riggs vs. Mikey Whipwreck - 1/4*
Disco Inferno vs. Konnan - **
Rey Mysterio vs. Billy Kidman - ***1/2
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Raven & Perry Saturn - ****1/4
Scott Steiner vs. Booker T - **
Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash *1/2
Ric Flair vs. DDP vs. Sting vs. Hollywood Hogan - ***1/2

Great WCW PPV for 1999, really enjoyable. I quite liked the main event even though some people aren't very fond of it. Opener and Tag match were gold, they need checking out by some folks.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My Top 10 WM main events below...I didn't add any matches that were not the final matches...If I did Savage/Flair WM 8 would be #1 and Taker/HBK WM 25 would be in the top 5...anyway here we go.....

10. Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase in a tournament final for the vacant WWF Championship (WM 4)....yes a homer pick cuz Im a Savage and DiBiase mark but oh well...the match was too short because they were short on time....I read they were going to go 20-25 mins....if that had happened it would be one of the best WM matches ever

9. Edge (c) vs. The Undertaker for the World Heavyweight Championship (WM 24)....very underrated match...it should prob even be higher

8. The Rock (c) vs. Steve Austin in a No Disqualification match for the WWF Championship (WM 15)...probably my 3rd fav of their WM matches but still really good

7. Bret Hart (c) vs. Shawn Michaels in a 60 Minute Iron Man Match for the WWF Championship (WM12)....this match gets so much shit but it was really good I thought and saved WM 12 from the crapper...the WWF was on the shoulders of these 2 guys and they came through

6. Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Steve Austin for the WWF Championship (WM 14)....Had HBK been healthy this had the potential to be not only one of the best WM matches ever but one of the best matches ever....both were in their prime and despite HBK not being 100% it was still great and a hige moment in wrestling history

5. Randy Savage (c) vs. Hulk Hogan for the WWF Championship (WM 5)....Probably Hogan's best match IMHO and I challenge anyone to find me a main event at WM with two bigger names

4. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (WM 26)...great match...I thought WM 25 was better but like I said I only included final matches on this list

3. Kurt Angle (c) vs. Brock Lesnar for the WWE Championship (WM 19)....awesome match...would prob be #1 if Angle would have been healthy

2. Triple H (c) vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels for the World Heavyweight Championship (WM 20)....so entertaining, can't say enough about the ending of WM 20...it was so emotional and well booked

1. The Rock (c) vs. Steve Austin in a No Disqualification match for the WWF Championship (WM 17)....can't say enough about this match....the crowd was bonkers and two of the best of all time in their primes and a finish nobody saw coming...if you say you saw this finish coming you are a liar....this match never gets old


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*WCW Monday Nitro - March 26th, 2001*

*WCW World Heavyweight & United States Championship Unification Match* Scott Steiner vs. Booker T - **1/2
The Jung Dragons vs. The Filthy Animals vs. 3 Count - **1/2
*WCW Cruiserweight Championship* Shane Helms (c) vs. Chavo Guerrero - **1/2
*WCW Tag Team Championships* Sean O'Haire & Chuck Palumbo (c) vs. Team Canada - **
Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Shawn Stasiak - 1/4*
*WCW Cruiserweight Tag Team Championships* Elix Skipper and Kid Romeo (c) vs. The Filthy Animals - ***
Sting vs. Ric Flair - ***

Enjoyable finale. The segments with Vince constantly burying WCW were not needed in my opinion, WCW should have been given one last night to shine. The matches that were put on were good but not great, Steiner/Booker could have been so much better if it had been given much more time. Sting/Flair was the only fitting way Nitro should have gone out. Of course, the Simulcast was epic. Vince probably should have tried harder to get big WCW names in the WWF, it would have made the Invasion that much better but, I enjoyed the Invasion for what it was.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

Hey guys, I need some help. 

What criticism would you make to the following wrestler (mostly in the ring)

-Steve Austin
-Terry Funk
-Chris Benoit
-Jerry Lawler
-Ric Flair

I would make a thread about this but I have more trust in the opinion of people who post in this thread and in OW than all the other sections combined


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Austin- hmmm in his 'Stone Cold' persona I'd say some of the overly brawling aspects of his matches weren't terrific, I can only think of Backlash 2002 v Taker where they spend a vast portion of the match brawling and it really didn't look or feel that special/memorable. I know Cal will probably be in disagreement there but bar his matches being overbooked at times and the brawling not always being enthralling I can't think of too much to really criticise. In WCW he got really really good around '94 but it wasn't like he was bad prior to that, just outshined by Arn, Eaton, Rude and Zbyszko etc.

Funk- well shit this is even harder to criticise, I can only say that maybe people would be bored by the more realistic/organic environment his matches produce, like I adore his punches and punch drunk selling but if people prefer 100mph sprints with insane spots and athleticism then Funk really won't appeal to them. Its hardly a knock on Funk since I'm thankful to God he never went down that road/style and its certainly something I'd never agree with if someone said he was boring, but well trying to find things Funk did badly/wrong isn't exactly an easy feat so I'm having to scrounge for something.

Benoit- by about 2005 onwards I did think he got overly formulaic with his offence and set ups for signature spots, he could still 'go' when he wanted to even in his later years but I think there's a world of difference between 2006 Benoit v Finlay and then 2006 Benoit v someone who works totally different to Finlay and Regal etc. I'm still largely a fan of his junior stuff since he and Eddie in particularly always seemed to be a step above the rest when it came to building their matches and making their spots mean much more in the context of the match, but I'm sure a few of his junior matches in WCW and NJPW may not hold up as well if I were to rewatch them tomorrow: though that's about as likely to happen because of my growing abhorance to the junior style than Benoit himself. Not really a fan of him in his matches v Angle either, felt he went along with Angle's counter counter style and didn't impose his ability to structure matches around mind blowing spots like he could do with Eddie or Mysterio for example.

Lawler- fuck youuuuuuuuuuuuu for making me think of something bad about Lawler. Ok, not an amazing athlete and 95% of his offence is great looking punches, so yeah if you don't appreciate the detail and story behind a basic match formula then Lawler will likely bore you or leave you thinking you're just not seeing what everyone else is seeing.

Flair- tendancy to oversell, though I'm not in the camp that hates that since it usually played a big part in getting him heat/babyface support on his opponent and made for a great build to his desperation transition spot and was an essential part of the Flair formula in making his opponent look like gold. People will say if you've seen 1 Flair match you've seen them all, total bollocks to me of course but I can understand why people will look for a more diverse performer (though again Flair is about as diverse as they come throughout his career). His matches with Windham and Steamboat are basic matches in terms of moves and execution, though of course its the subtle build, engaging atmosphere and character dynamics which add so much more to the sequences but again, if people are looking for an athlete to leave them speechless Ric Flair isn't who you go to.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/recruiting-new-wwe-dvd-reviewer/21603/

Not sure if i'm interested in this anymore...

They're looking for more "DVD" based reviewers rather than "Match" reviewers. Seems to me that they have no interest in star ratings or number ratings or whatever.

They want someone to review things like "packaging" and more in depth documentary reviews, as opposed to matches. Daniel's reviews talk BARELY about the matches and are more documentary and presentation based.

I'm not sure if you guys are with me on this one, but if this goes ahead, I might consider boycotting WWEDVDNEWS. I mean THIS is their chance to get a good reviewer, but instead they're gonna go a route that makes Austin101/Brett Mix seem like a reviewing GOD. I know one person won't make a hell of alot of difference, but match listings/reviews are the main reason's that I'm drawn to that site, and at risk of alienating a large portion of their site goers, I would strongly advise that they get a more "Match" based reviewer.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't visit the site for reviews anyway, so I'll still be going there for, you know, dvd news . I would have still applied (I can easily switch up my reviewing formula to give them what they want while still doing match reviews), but I don't have the cash to buy like, ever new DVD release .


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

Clique said:


> I was at Reliant Stadium and witnessed the disappointment that was HHH vs. Randy Orton WrestleMania 25 main event. The match was booked completely wrong. This should have been a no holds barred fight with brawling in the all around ringside and in the crowd. There should have been run ins from the McMahons and Legacy. Chairshots, stair shots/spots, ring bell shots, etc. Most importantly, Orton should have won the damn match. In word to describe how I felt after watching this match live was underwhelmed. However, I did enjoy it much more when I watched it on DVD a couple months later. It's still not WRESTLEMANIA 25 MAIN EVENT worthy.


Pretty much sums up my views on the match perfectly.

The feud called for a violent match, it needed it to get into a brawl for it to actually work. They absolutely just handcuffed both guys by making that stupid stipulation. The feud was actually really, really good, full of action, ready for a really great Wrestlemania payoff, and it just didnt happen...through no fault of Orton or Triple H.

People often critisise overbooked matches but in this case it was needed. The feud wasnt just Orton/Triple H it was Legacy/Orton/McMahons/Triple H. Legacy run ins were expected and needed, a Shane or Vince run in was needed, and Stephanie making an appearance would have been even better. People expected and wanted these run ins in this case, they expected a swerve and what they got was...dissapointing because as *Clique* stated you were left with that 'was that it' feeling as the match eneded. Very underwhelming.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> Austin- hmmm in his 'Stone Cold' persona I'd say some of the overly brawling aspects of his matches weren't terrific, I can only think of Backlash 2002 v Taker where they spend a vast portion of the match brawling and it really didn't look or feel that special/memorable. I know Cal will probably be in disagreement there but bar his matches being overbooked at times and the brawling not always being enthralling I can't think of too much to really criticise. In WCW he got really really good around '94 but it wasn't like he was bad prior to that, just outshined by Arn, Eaton, Rude and Zbyszko etc.
> 
> Funk- well shit this is even harder to criticise, I can only say that maybe people would be bored by the more realistic/organic environment his matches produce, like I adore his punches and punch drunk selling but if people prefer 100mph sprints with insane spots and athleticism then Funk really won't appeal to them. Its hardly a knock on Funk since I'm thankful to God he never went down that road/style and its certainly something I'd never agree with if someone said he was boring, but well trying to find things Funk did badly/wrong isn't exactly an easy feat so I'm having to scrounge for something.
> 
> ...


thanks man.

I've spent literally 1 week trying to think "bad" things about Funk's and Lawler's work. It hasn't been easy.

Good stuff on Benoit, specially his "formulaic work" in his later years. I still love his Junior matches as I still like that style and appreciate it by what it is. This last 2 weeks I've been rewatching a lot of early 90's work (even his fun brawl against Funk) and it still holds up. I'm still waiting for someone to find his 2nd match vs Owen with audio, it's such a fun 10 minutes even without it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Austin- hmmm in his 'Stone Cold' persona I'd say some of the overly brawling aspects of his matches weren't terrific, I can only think of Backlash 2002 v Taker where they spend a vast portion of the match brawling and it really didn't look or feel that special/memorable. I know Cal will probably be in disagreement there but bar his matches being overbooked at times and the brawling not always being enthralling I can't think of too much to really criticise. In WCW he got really really good around '94 but it wasn't like he was bad prior to that, just outshined by Arn, Eaton, Rude and Zbyszko etc.
> 
> Funk- well shit this is even harder to criticise, I can only say that maybe people would be bored by the more realistic/organic environment his matches produce, like I adore his punches and punch drunk selling but if people prefer 100mph sprints with insane spots and athleticism then Funk really won't appeal to them. Its hardly a knock on Funk since I'm thankful to God he never went down that road/style and its certainly something I'd never agree with if someone said he was boring, but well trying to find things Funk did badly/wrong isn't exactly an easy feat so I'm having to scrounge for something.
> 
> ...


Wow. Great write ups.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

I liked HHH/Orton at WM25 for what it was. I agree with the points already made about the booking aspect of it, but as a match, it was solid from what I recall. I also think it got hurt by having Take/Michaels go on before it, just took the crowd out of it.

I re-watched both Taker/Michaels WM matches back to back last night and I still prefer 25 to 26. Without going in to a big thing about it since it'll prob be overlooked anyway, the "feel" of 25 felt more "authentic" to me. The rematch just couldn't draw me in at all. Not saying it's a bad match or anything, because it was really good, but not better than 25 imo. If i'm putting ratings on it, i'd go:

WM25: **** 1/2
WM26: *** 1/2 - 3/4ish

With that done, I'm gonna finish TLC 09, then hopefully my copy of Royal Rumble 2010 will come in and I'll start that, already got Elimination Chamber 2010. Prob gonna order some more 2010 shows later since i'm missing a good bit.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched The Epic Journey Of Dwayne Johnson and loved it. The documentary could have been longer but it was still good. The match selection was also not bad at all. I would have left off the match with Hogan at NWO 2003 but they did need a Hollywood Rock match so it works.

I am now impatiently waiting for Edge's new DVD set to come out in April.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

NJ88 said:


> Pretty much sums up my views on the match perfectly.
> 
> The feud called for a violent match, it needed it to get into a brawl for it to actually work. They absolutely just handcuffed both guys by making that stupid stipulation. The feud was actually really, really good, full of action, ready for a really great Wrestlemania payoff, and it just didnt happen...through no fault of Orton or Triple H.
> 
> People often critisise overbooked matches but in this case it was needed. The feud wasnt just Orton/Triple H it was Legacy/Orton/McMahons/Triple H. Legacy run ins were expected and needed, a Shane or Vince run in was needed, and Stephanie making an appearance would have been even better. People expected and wanted these run ins in this case, they expected a swerve and what they got was...dissapointing because as *Clique* stated you were left with that 'was that it' feeling as the match eneded. Very underwhelming.


I think the match as was would not get the hate it got and it happen before the Undertaker/Shawn Michaels match. I am be in the minority but I liked how the DQ & count out stipulations where added to the match because the one thing the McMahons and Triple H did not want was Orton winning the WWE Championship. So knowing that Orton wanted to put Triple H in the toughest spot possible " Do I end this guy for what he did to my family or do I wrestle him and try to keep the title?"


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Undertaker v Shawn Michaels WM 25 is the greatest Wrestlemaina match for me. It's a ***** for me. I didn't like their match at WM 26 and I have it at ***3/4. Maybe my expectations were just too damn high the second time around.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 WM Main Events:

10) Austin vs. Rock WM15- ***3/4
9) Hogan vs. Savage WM5- ****
8) Hart vs. HBK WM12- ****
7) Austin vs. HBK WM14- ****
6) Cena vs. HBK WM23- ****1/4
5) Lesnar vs. Angle W19- ****1/4
4) Taker vs. Edge WM24- ****1/4
3) Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH WM20- ****1/2
2) Taker vs. HBK WM26- ****1/2
1) Rock vs. Austin WM17- *****

(Note: I've seen all the WM ME from WM14 on, but before that I've only seen a few of them).

Hogan/Andre WM3 gets an honorable mention for obvious reasons.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hogan/Andre at WM3 & Hogan/Warrior at WM6 were great at the time and great moments in wrestling history. They were terrible matches though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't call Hogan/Warrior a terrible match. At all. Was pretty good tbh, especially considering you've got someone who is total shit and Ultimate Warrior... . Hogan did an amazing job getting Warrior through that match without it turning into a fucking disaster.

Hogan/Andre is probably the absolute worst WM main event of all time. It can have as much significance as it wants but its still a god awful match that nobody ever needs to see. There are plenty of clips of the slam going around .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The worst of the worst for WM main events are Hogan/Bundy, Miz/Cena, Yoko/Hogan, Sid/Hogan and LT/Bam Bam. Bret/Yoko at 9 & 10 aren't that good either. Orton/HHH, Jericho/HHH and Batista/HHH are so-so/underwhelming. 

Hogan/Andre is not a good match but I get chills at that stare down and the slam is still a sight to see 25 years later.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I tried to watch Hogan/Andre but damn was it awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> The worst of the worst for WM main events are Hogan/Bundy, Miz/Cena, Yoko/Hogan, Sid/Hogan and LT/Bam Bam. Bret/Yoko at 9 & 10 aren't that good either. Orton/HHH, Jericho/HHH and Batista/HHH are so-so/underwhelming.
> 
> Hogan/Andre is not a good match but I get chills at that stare down and the slam is still a sight to see 25 years later.


I'd still put them all above Hogan/Andre. WM II Cage match is slightly entertaining (and I think we both know someone that is VERY fond of it ), Miz/Cena while bad still isn't close, Yoko/Hogan was a spur of the moment type match that only lasted about 10 seconds anyway and doesn't really count, Sid/Hogan... its damn close, LT/Bam Bam isn't a bad match by any means imo, and Bret/Yoko were both pretty poor yeah, but Bret did a good job making them not completely suck balls. WM 1 main event needs to be added to the list of totally shit WM main events too. Bam Bam/LT was WAY better tbh.

Of course, the likes of WM 1 and WM 3 main events will be held in higher regard by a lot of people in general for their significance, but as matches they blew chunks.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree Cal. The significance, atmosphere and moment(s) are what the WM1 and WM3 main events will most be remembered for more so than match quality.

I need to re-watch LT/Bam Bam and Taker/Sid.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The first bunch of Wrestlemania were all shit IMO and the only good matches came from the undercard. But Vince knew why he had those main events. He knew why he included so much celebs and stuff in it. I'm pretty sure a lot of purists were all over the first few Wrestlemanias. I'm sure purists at the time thought they sucked, they were ruining the business and all that sort of shit. But Vince, being the genius that he is, knew what he was doing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> I agree Cal. The significance, atmosphere and moment(s) are what the WM1 and WM3 main events will most be remembered for more so than match quality.
> 
> I need to re-watch LT/Bam Bam and Taker/Sid.


One thing to watch out for with Taker/Sid is the fucking length of the match. I still consider it to be "good" but man, they could have taken 10 minutes off it and they would have still gotten everything in .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WM III main event is the hardest match for me to rate... EVER.

I mean, what should I give it ? It's horrendous, but the spectacle and crowd interaction is fantastic. That MUST account for some stars ? dosen't it ?

I have it at ** 1/4, the most generous I'll ever be for a WM main event. What about you guys ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd give it 1/4*. Match quality alone is DUD, but everything else surrounding it prevents it from being the worst match ever.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Am I the only one or one of the few that prefers Benoit/HHH/HBK from Backlash over their Mania match? There's something bout the storytelling that I liked better in that one. The whole screwjob reenactment was insane.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hogan/Andre, I have it at **3/4*, but it's one of my favorite matches of all time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I wouldn't call Hogan/Warrior a terrible match. At all. Was pretty good tbh, especially considering you've got someone who is total shit and Ultimate Warrior... . Hogan did an amazing job getting Warrior through that match without it turning into a fucking disaster.
> 
> Hogan/Andre is probably the absolute worst WM main event of all time. It can have as much significance as it wants but its still a god awful match that nobody ever needs to see. There are plenty of clips of the slam going around .


Agree to disagree I guess about Hogan/Warrior. I just never liked either one of them as far as what they did in the ring. It was like oh lets play mercy for a few minutes, let me fake an injury outside of the ring for a few minutes, let me put the sleeper on you, lets both do our finishers, etc. At the time when it happened (I was 9) I loved it but watching it again now I can't believe Warrior was as over as he was while guys like DiBiase, Rude, Perfect and Davey Boy Smith couldnt even get a sniff. Granted they were not as over as Warrior was in 1989-1991 but it's just odd what people like. I don't know. The crowd was so into it and it was huge for wrestling seeing the two top babyfaces go at it and the end was unexpected....at least for me as a 9 year old. 

I think the Warrior/Savage match at WM7 was far and away better. As was the Savage/Warrior match at Summerslam. they also had some good cage matches at house shows in 1991. I think Savage and Warrior just had way better chemistry together thn Hogan and Warrior. 

I think LT/Bam Bam and Hogan/Sid were complete disasters. Neither had any business closing Wrestlefuckingmania. Savage/Flair not closing WM8 made no sense whatsoever and as much as I can't stand Nash I think HBK/Nash should have closed Mania. I wish Hart had won the title at Royal Rumble in 1995 and we would of got Hart/HBK in 1995 for the title. I don;t know why that didn't happen? Im sure someone wouldnt put someone over....like always.


----------



## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

I will not call The WM 3 a great match or anything but don't understand the DUD treatment. It has a great atmosphere and a great Story in the "will Hogan be able of beat The giant and If So, he will be able to slam him", there are 2 or 3 great teasers of the Bodyslam spot and when he finally do it is a pretty fucking great moment (even if is not the first time someone slam Andre in real world). And then Andre bangin up and all is pretty good during the contest making his offense section doesn't fit like mere filler, Hogan like the underdog is also good.

At least is better than the Iron Man and the WM 25 main event....


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I really don't understand the hate for the iron man match with Hart and HBK. For you haters do you just not like Iron Matches? Something I would pay to see is an Angle/Bryan 60 minute Iron Man match.


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

Sorry to get off the WrestleMania discussion but I just watched the Bret\HBK dvd again and it really is a great interview session. Even though they basically told me everything I already knew you still have to sit back and enjoy these two men sitting right next to one another exchanging there perspectives. Bret's imput was a lot more interesting as expected considering his book and how great his memory is. The fact that he can go into deep attention to detail about stories 20 years ago is just amazing. It shows the difference between being relatively sober and being HBK in the 90's. It also doesn't help that HBK has to say "YOU KNOW" five time in a sentence when trying to explain something. HBK was a better mic worker than Bret but when actually speaking in shoot interviews HBK is complete shit and Bret Hart is excellent. 

So the main reason I came to this thread is to get your opinion on the Montreal match. I know this has been talked about to death but I'm not here to take anybodys side or anything like that. I just thought it was interesting when Bret talks about his conversations and relationship prior to the match. He claimed HBK was very disrespectful saying he wouldn't put him over and things along those lines. So it was obvious these two were not on the best terms and Bret even went up to Vince face to face telling him that he would put ANYBODY over besides HBK and even went into detail of why and told him the conversation he had in which HBK refused to put Bret over. Vince totally looked over this and didn't give a damn. He went with his original idea and told HBK that he was going to put the belt on him. Now to me this is where I have an issue. Was HBK really the ONLY option you had going over Bret? Really? I realize that Vince loved HBK and thought he was the best man for the belt and the best man to replace Bret at the time. I just don't understand why Vince couldn't put the belt temporarily on somebody else who was established like The Undertaker or ANYBODY but Shawn. That guy who doesn't have personal issues going on with HBK would have no issues with dropping the belt to HBK and there's no drama or Montreal Screwjob. Even though the Montreal Screwjob started the Vince Mcmahon heel character and did great things for WWE that doesn't take away the fact that Vince handled this whole situation about as poorly as you could and that's the reason he looked like a complete idiot at the end.


----------



## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I really don't understand the hate for the iron man match with Hart and HBK. For you haters do you just not like Iron Matches? Something I would pay to see is an Angle/Bryan 60 minute Iron Man match.


No. I think that the HHH/Rock match is pretty great just like Angle/Lesnar.

The Bret/HBK match feels just like a 60 minutes filler for the extra 5 minutes and is not even good filler just a bunch of restholds for the most part.

And i don't know what to think about a Angle/Bryan Iron Man, if Bryan leads Angle can be really good but is Kurt Angle, he will find a way to insert his bulshit


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Agreed about Lesnar/Angle....thats my fav iron man match ever...I bought the greatest stars of the 21st century dvd just because of that match and the Taker/Edge WM match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Iron Man matches for the most part are all awesome (the ones that have aired on TV, never managed to watch the house show ones out there between the likes of Bret/Owen and Bret/Flair). Just HBK/Bret and Cena/Orton trying to bring the rest down .

Rude/Steamboat (30 minutes) in 92 is a tremendous fucking match.

Angle/Lesnar from 03 is one of my fav Iron Man matches.

HHH/Rock from 00 is incredible too. I was entertained for SIXTY MINUTES with a ROCK match. Now that's something!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hart vs HBK WM 12I have at ***3/4.It has some good mat wrestling but Bret completely no sells the arm Shawn spent working on the entire match.

HHH vs Rock I also have at ***3/4. There's no mat wrestling (not like I was expecting any in the first place given the two guys involved in the match) which isn't a problem tbh. This match was nothing but a 60miunute brawl and a good portion of it took place outside the ring. I would say though that the storytelling behind the falls was pretty good and it's the only WWE iron man match that kept me entertained the entire 60minutes.

Lesnar vs Angle is just overrated to me. i don't get the love for it at all.

Triple H vs Chris Benoit really blew as well IMO.

Honestly speaking, no WWE iron man match is more than ***3/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Iron Man ratings:

Steamboat/Rude - ****1/2-****3/4
Dustin/Rude - Around... ***1/4 maybe

HBK/Bret - **1/2 or something
HHH/Rock - ****1/2
Brock/Angle - ****1/2
HHH/Benoit - ***3/4 (had potential to be really good but never really kicked off... just kinda went in one speed the entire hour)
Angle/HBK - ***1/4
Cena/Orton - **1/2 or something


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I loved Rude/Steamboat...wish they had got an hour....arguably the two best workers of all time....it's not an Iron Man match but one of my fav matches of all time is Sting/Flair at CotC

HHH/Rock was a great iron man match as well. What I think made that match (and would have made Hart/HBK so much better) is there were so many falls. My only problem with HHH/Rock is the ending. It's prob still a 4 star match though.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

sharkboy22 said:


> Am I the only one or one of the few that prefers Benoit/HHH/HBK from Backlash over their Mania match? There's something bout the storytelling that I liked better in that one. The whole screwjob reenactment was insane.


At one point I felt the same way and thought the Rematch was better. But, the last time I watched the WM20 match I was blown away, haven't watched either in a couple years.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Benoit/HHH/HBK II is good...really good...but I like the WM match better


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Agree to disagree I guess about Hogan/Warrior. I just never liked either one of them as far as what they did in the ring. It was like oh lets play mercy for a few minutes, let me fake an injury outside of the ring for a few minutes, let me put the sleeper on you, lets both do our finishers, etc.


What's wrong with that? "oh let's do this and that and then hit our finishers" is pretty much every WWE mian event match. I get not liking the match, but it seems like you're talking about parts of the match instead of negative parts about it.

Also antoniomare-

Austin's punches. FUCK Austin's punches. He has this terrible flimsy babyface flurry of punches that look weaker than just about anything. There's one punch in the Angle SummerSlam match though, looked tremendous liked he actually decked Angle straight in the face. I re-wound it a bit beccause it looked so awesome. 

Funk....I guess i shouldn't commnt on his peak (whenever that is) since it's been a while since I've watched it, but I don't remember Funk working a finishing stretch as well as some guys. Again. been a while, so that's probably horseshit.

Benoit tried to hard sometimes. Sounds silly to "try too hard," but look at 2002-2003 Benoit compared to 1995-1996 Benoit and it's a different animal. 02-03 is extremely favourable with a lot of people, but I'm not one of them. Worked like a smarter Kurt Angle, and a smarter Kurt Angle is still a Kurt Angle. And a Kurt Angle is a wretler who I don't care for, even if, again, his stuff is extremely favourable with a lot of people. Chris got back on track by mid-04 at least, thoguh. And by "back on track" I mean "a style that I actually really like." 

Lawler might have needed more offense, but at the same time...he really didn't. He probably comes off as a little one-sided; it's a little odd that he starts the match with punches and then they just start to work after he's been beaten down, but he's so excellent at that that it doesn't matter.

Flair remained too "the same," I think. He goes bat-shit insane old man in 2004, but he probably should have done that by 95 (which he did in promos, anyway). The "all Flair matches are the same argument" should be dead, but the Flair of the late 90s needed a change from working as "The Man."


----------



## Heathy (Mar 13, 2007)

*The Epic Journey Of Dwayne The Rock Johnson*

I have just finished watching the new DVD and I have to say I thought it was brilliant!

I was very surprised how big Triple H and Y2J are on The Rock, they could not have offered more praise then they did !

Rockys reasoning for going into movies and leaving the WWE behind was very interesting and one I hadnt heard before. To me it makes total sense and it answers John Cenas main arguement totally. He wanted to conquer Hollywood alone without the springboard of WWE and he made that decision. When he had done that he felt he could return.

The one disappointment for me was their was enough time spent on the SCSA fueds and they to me have been The Rocks pinnacle moments, but thats just my opinion. The DVD extensively looks at the start of his WWE career with about 40 mins dedicated to the rise of Rocky Mavia, leader of the nation, corporate champ and then the peoples champ.

All in all i really enjoyed it and for any Rock fans i believe it is a must purchase!


----------



## Peapod (Jul 29, 2010)

*Re: The Epic Journey Of Dwayne the Rock Johnsen*

Watched it the other night, good watch very interesting.


----------



## Tronnik (Feb 4, 2011)

*Re: The Epic Journey Of Dwayne The Rock Johnson*

I really enjoyed the biography as well. The matches included could have been much better but it was a great DVD. And yeah it was a great point. It was better to not have him for 7 years than to have him come back every year to promote a new movie. People need to accept that I mean how long is every one going to go and on about this. Chances are every one would have bitched even more if he didn't return at all.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Also antoniomare-
> 
> Austin's punches. FUCK Austin's punches. He has this terrible flimsy babyface flurry of punches that look weaker than just about anything. There's one punch in the Angle SummerSlam match though, looked tremendous liked he actually decked Angle straight in the face. I re-wound it a bit beccause it looked so awesome.
> 
> ...


awesome.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Austin wasn't a great puncher, but he's the best mudhole stomper in the business.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

The top WrestleMania main events:

1. X-Seven
2. XX
3. XXVI
4. XXIV
5. 22
6. XII
7. VI
8. III
9. XIX
10. 23

I'm a big fan of Hogan/Andre. I just seem to like the match very much. On the contrary, I'm not very high on Cena/Michaels.

On Iron Man Matches, I don't like calling a 30 minutes match--an Iron Man match because there is nothing "iron" in going for 30 minutes. I'll still include Steamboat/Rude because it's pretty awesome.

Steamboat/Rude ~ **** 1/2
Michaels/Bret ~ ****
Hunter/Rock ~ **** 3/4
Lesnar/Angle ~ **** 1/4
Hunter/Benoit ~ *** 1/2
Cena/Orton ~ ** 3/4

For Angle/Michaels, I haven't watched it since then and I remember being pretty unimpressed back then. In fact, their "Iron Man" match and the one at Vengeance 2005 might be two of the most awful "Icon" matches of all time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I went to list the top ten Mania main events and there are only seven I actually really care for. Couldn't even put them in decisive order. Poo.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Anyone remember what year Triple H vs. Edge on Raw was when they were in Japan? I wanna say 2004 but not sure.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

After a little checking it was apparently February 2005.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

It was in 2005. I want to say February. Randy Orton and Christian had a really good match a week after that when Christian got a huge knot on his head.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Thanks.

My Top 10 WrestleMania main events:

1.Wrestlemania 17
2.Wrestlemania 20
3.Wrestlemania 14
4.Wrestlemania 15
5.Wrestlemania 5
6.Wrestlemania 26
7.Wrestlemania 24
8.Wrestlemania 6
9.Wrestlemania 12
10.Wrestlemania 23


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

On a related subject to the Ironman matches, what does everyone think of the Benoit/Angle Ultimate Submission match at Backlash 2001 and how does it stand up compared to the other matches between those two guys?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane-UK said:


> On a related subject to the Ironman matches, what does everyone think of the Benoit/Angle Ultimate Submission match at Backlash 2001 and how does it stand up compared to the other matches between those two guys?


Damn, forgot about that match. Technically it would be an Iron Man match, just submissions only (like Cena/Orton with the STIPS~!). My favourite match between the two, and comparing it Iron Man matches I'd have it pretty high too.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> What's wrong with that? "oh let's do this and that and then hit our finishers" is pretty much every WWE mian event match. I get not liking the match, but it seems like you're talking about parts of the match instead of negative parts about it.
> 
> Also antoniomare-
> 
> ...


I just found the first 15 mins of Hogan/Warrior boring.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

antoniomare007 said:


> thanks man.
> 
> I've spent literally 1 week trying to think "bad" things about Funk's and Lawler's work. It hasn't been easy.
> 
> Good stuff on Benoit, specially his "formulaic work" in his later years. I still love his Junior matches as I still like that style and appreciate it by what it is. This last 2 weeks I've been rewatching a lot of early 90's work (even his fun brawl against Funk) and it still holds up. I'm still waiting for someone to find his 2nd match vs Owen with audio, it's such a fun 10 minutes even without it.


Yeah its not like I thought he was actively bad or anything, but I think years of working the same style essentially took its toll, not forgetting he was a midcard guardkeeper again following 2005 so it made sense to work more formulaic matches that hid the weaknesses of Kennedy or MVP and got them over. But still, you could see a different Benoit when he locked up with Finlay and Regal in the later years compared to when he faced guys the WWE wanted to look guard, almost like all the pressure was off and he could just experiment with both guys and work holds/sequences he normally couldn't.

His juniors stuff largely holds up for me, his Superbrawl III match v Scorpio made my Top 100 WCW Ballot as well as some of his sprints with Eddie and Jericho, the BOSJ match with Eddie will never drop for me, such an incredibly well structured match that establish both men's strengths and build to the high spots in such an organic and brilliant way.

EDIT: just seen Yeah's post, agreed with a lot of that.

Likewise I can't really give a top 10 of Wrestlemania main events, but I'll do a top 5:

Taker v HBK, Wrestlemania 26
Cena v HBK, Wrestlemania 23
Rock v Austin, Wrestlemania 17
Benoit v HHH v HBK, Wrestlemania 20
Angle/Lesnar would probably round off the top 5- though I think its an infinitely lesser match than the above, haven't seen Cena/HHH from 22 in forever but I'd probably rank that ahead of Lesnar/Angle unless it really drops.

Steamboat/Rude is the best Ironman ever, by far. Everything you need in pro wrestling, great build and sequences, a character dynamic that gets integrated into the sequences and holds, stupendous selling and a molten crowd. It did extremely well on my Top 100 WCW Ballot, well Cal and Cal alone knows just how well it did.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone remember that really good HBK/Orton vs Edge/Christian tag match from early '05?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Doing some shopping on Amazon right now. Looking for some PPVs from the attitude era on that are good top to bottom. Any ideas? WWE or WCW.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Looks like I got some '05 matches to go and watch.I stopped watching wrestling around late '03 and started back in '06 around February. Holy shit, I din not know there was a RAW in Japan. Gotta check that one out.

I don't think I can do a top 10 Mania main events because quite frankly I can't even name 10 Mania main events that I actually enjoyed or consider about **** but here is my top 5.

1) The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania XXV *****
2) Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H Wrestlemaina XX ****1/2
3) John Cena vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania XXIII ****1/2
4) Edge vs The Undertaker Wrestlemania XXIV ****1/4
5) Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar Wrestlemania XIX ****1/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Doing some shopping on Amazon right now. Looking for some PPVs from the attitude era on that are good top to bottom. Any ideas? WWE or WCW.


My memory of 1998-1999 is pretty bad, however for WWF 2000 I'd say:

Backlash
Judgement Day
Fully Loaded
Summerslam
No Mercy

are the essential purchases if you wanted something.

Backlash has the amazing Rock/HHH main event, a really good Benoit/Jericho IC title match, a Dudleys v T & A tag that is much better than it had any right to be, a harmelss Malenko/Scotty 2 Hotty Lightheavyweight Match with a good crowd and a fun Hardcore multi man match featuring the Hollys, The Hardy's, Blackman etc. Top to bottom a very good card with some excellent matches.

Judgement Day has another great main event and Benoit/Jericho combination as well as a really good 6 man tag featuring Angle, Edge & Christian v Too Cool. Pretty sure there's another good match on there but those 3 alone are worth the purchase.

Fully Loaded is stacked, Rock/Benoit is one of Rock's best non gimmick matches ever, HHH/Jericho is perhaps the best LMS match the company has ever put on, Hardys v T & A is fun, Taker/Angle isn't extraordinary but ok and Venis/Rikishi in the Steel Cage has THAT cage spot which is still incredible to this day.

Summerslam is also very good, TLC 1 and Benoit/Jericho again are the main reasons to buy the PPV, Taker/Kane is really a nothing match, the main event is ok but they had a better triple threat on TV before this, Shane v Blackman is a really fun hardcore match with some memorable spots and a good crowd and there's a couple of harmless undercard matches.

No Mercy has a really good main event in Angle/Rock and HHH/Benoit is pretty good, though they'd go on to have better matches later on. Can't remember much else but I'd say its the best of the PPVs after Summerslam, with Survivor Series and Armageddon being barely 'ok' to me and Unforgiven being quite good but the best match (Hardys/Edge and Christian) not being as good as No Mercy's best match (Rock/Angle).

Backlash, Judgement Day & Fully Loaded would be my 3 top picks tbh depending on how dear they are/how much you want to spend.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*Masato Tanaka vs Mike Awesome
ECW Heatwave; 1998/08/02*

_I'm not seeing all the hype here. Decent match with some awesome (no-pun intended) table spots. _

*Rating: **¾*

*Masato Tanaka vs Mike Awesome
WWE ECW One Night Stand; 2005/06/12*

_Awesome was pretty shit in this. No selling, weak non-weapon based offense and kicked out of the big near-falls with little effort or passion. Sick little match that was good, but reminded me of a CZW deathmatch because of all the spots and Awesome's performance. _

*Rating: ***¼*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Merge those 2 reviews and you have pretty much my exact feelings on ALL their matches together .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just out of fun, what does everyone think about (WWE related):

- the best regular tag team matches
- the best 6 and 8 man tags
- the best time limit draw
- the best cruserweight match
- the best 2/3 falls match


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

regular tag team match...the 3 that inmediatly come to mind are Brisco Brothers vs Murdoch/Adonis, Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho and Austin/Michaels vs Owen/Bulldog.

I don't remember a time limit draw in the WWE (the closest thing is the Half Bald Kid vs Bret - Iron Man Match). Can't remember Backlund having a great 1 hr match in the WWWF either.

There's a lot of great multi-man matches...the Canadian Stampede mainevent (Hart Fundation vs Austin/Goldust/Shamrock/LOD) is probably my favorite though.

I'm drawing a blank on a classic WWE cruiserweight match but I'm sure there are a couple of them.

My favorite 2/3 falls match is the SD! Edge/Rey vs Angle/Benoit match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

antoniomare007 said:


> regular tag team match...the 3 that inmediatly come to mind are Brisco Brothers vs Murdoch/Adonis, Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho and Austin/Michaels vs Owen/Bulldog.
> 
> I don't remember a time limit draw in the WWE (the closest thing is the Half Bald Kid vs Bret - Iron Man Match). Can't remember Backlund having a great 1 hr match in the WWWF either.
> 
> ...


Holy shit thanks for reminding me of this match. I believe it was from 2002. Damn, a lot of people say SD in '03 was the best and while that may be true SD in '02 was BEAST. Every week you were guaranteed 1 or 2 ****+ matches. 

Edge/Mysterio were a really good team and everytime they faced the team of Benoit/Angle the two teams just seemed to create magic each time. These two teams just had great chemistry together.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*WWE Best PPV Matches of 2011 Blu-Ray Review*

*Disc One*
Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) - ***3/4
Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Big Show (Elimination Chamber) - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes (WrestleMania XXVII) - ***1/2
The Undertaker vs. Triple H (WrestleMania XXVII) - ****1/4 
Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio (Extreme Rules) - ****1/4 
Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk (Capitol Punishment) ***1/2
Alberto Del Rio vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Jack Swagger vs. Evan Bourne vs. The Miz vs. R-Truth vs. Alex Riley vs. Rey Mysterio (Money in the Bank) - ****
John Cena vs. CM Punk (Money in the Bank) - *****

*Disc Two*
Christian vs. Randy Orton (SummerSlam) - ****1/4
Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry (Night of Champions) ***
Triple H vs. CM Punk (Night of Champions) **3/4
Kelly Kelly vs. Beth Phoenix (Hell in a Cell) **
John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio (Hell in a Cell) ***1/2
Mark Henry vs. Big Show (Vengeance) **3/4

*Blu-Ray Extras*
Randy Orton vs. CM Punk (WrestleMania XXVII) ***
Rey Mysterio vs. R-Truth (Over the Limit) ***
Randy Orton vs. Christian (Capitol Punishment) ****
Rey Mysterio, John Morrison & Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & R-Truth (SummerSlam) ***1/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio Extreme Rules 2010*
This match just has extremely (no pun intended) bad pacing. Punk and Mysterio just never had good chemistry together in the ring at all. 

*****

*Shawn Michaels vs Mankind In Your House: Mind Games*
This match was just really fun to watch and an all out war. It's such a shame it suffered from terrible booking.

*****1/2*


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

I thought Punk/Mysterio at Capitol Punishment was awesome and basically the only good thing about that terrible, terrible PPV.

EDIT- Btw I am aware you were on about their ER match, my comment was about you claiming that they have no chemistry.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd say Punk and Mysterio overall had GREAT chemistry. Sure they never had a "classic" match, but I'm not sure I'd call any of their matches anything less than good. Its amazing what they did at WM with such a short time limit too.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Punk and Mysterio do work very well together. Even a throw away match like Capitol Punishment actually worked quite well. I am also amazed at the improvement in Punk since his debut between 2006 and 2010 he had only a hand full of good matches and now he has them all of the time. I know I will get some disagreement but Punk was average at best for the first few years of his WWE run. I actually think his feud with Mysterio is what turned it around. He went from rare *** matches to regular *** matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Has anyone on here ordered from highsports.com? They have a really interesting DVD selection and the prices are pretty good. They have a bunch of stuff in Japan I'm interested. Best of Flair, Hogan, Sting, Hart family and Terry Funk in Japan are all in my cart currently. Just wanted a few opinions before I checked out. How long does it take to deliver? How is the quality? Etc etc.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Has anyone on here ordered from highsports.com? They have a really interesting DVD selection and the prices are pretty good. They have a bunch of stuff in Japan I'm interested. Best of Flair, Hogan, Sting, Hart family and Terry Funk in Japan are all in my cart currently. Just wanted a few opinions before I checked out. How long does it take to deliver? How is the quality? Etc etc.


Think you meant highspots? I have ordered a few things from them and never had an issue, last thing I bought was No Mercy 2001 about 5 or 6 years ago, if not longer than that, but I never had an issue.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Highspots have lots of DVD from a bunch of promotions world wide at reasonalable prices. They even have a DVD with Edge and Christian from their indy days. I've been looking for footage of the two every where but can'r seem to find it. Too bad I don't have a credit card or paypal account 



Dark Church said:


> Punk and Mysterio do work very well together. Even a throw away match like Capitol Punishment actually worked quite well. I am also amazed at the improvement in Punk since his debut between 2006 and 2010 he had only a hand full of good matches and now he has them all of the time. I know I will get some disagreement but Punk was average at best for the first few years of his WWE run. I actually think his feud with Mysterio is what turned it around. He went from rare *** matches to regular *** matches.


I agree with this. By 2009 Punk just matured so much as a wrestler. I think it's the WWE style of wrestling. A lot of people shit on it but I'm one of the few that prefers it over the style on the indies- the high impact, death defying moves. The thing bout the WWE style is that it's focused on the wrestlers telling a story in the ring and building a match around their characters. On the indies, it's just about who can throw the stiffest kicks, elbows, punches etc, whoever can pull off the sickest variation of a suplex or who has the baddest looking submission move. 

Tyler Black and Jon Moxley are examples of this as well. I was a fan of Black in ROH. I thought he had the look, just needed to work on his mic skills. My only gripe with him was the stupid indy style of wrestling. And I'm not saying it's stupid (ok I am) but that's just my opinion. You may love it, I don't. Maybe you can go off on a 10 paragraph tandrum on why it's superior to any other style of wrestling. Anyway, where was I? Right, Tyler Balck had promise. Likewise, Moxley. When I first saw him about 2 years ago, it was at an EVOLVE show. I was like "dyam" now this kid has the look. Not to mention, really good mic skills. His ring work wasn't that bad actually. Yadda, yadda, yadda by the time they came to the WWE both men have put on some of, if not, the best matches of their careers thus far.

This isn't the right forum but the next guy I wanna see in WWE and someone I could see benefiting from working WWE's "watered down style" is Adam Cole. He's a great heel, has a good look but needs to tone his shit down. His work as a heel was some of the best I've seen on the indies and he's a guy that incorporates his character into his matches which is something that I find to be very rare on the indies. Unless everyone's character is that of a motherfuckin' badass.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I thought there would have been a new post by then. And it's not that Punk/Mysterio matches are bad it's just that they're matches I won't wanna watch twice.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> On the indies, it's just about who can throw the stiffest kicks, elbows, punches etc, whoever can pull off the sickest variation of a suplex or who has the baddest looking submission move.


Horseshit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

JoeRulz said:


> Horseshit.


Let me rephrase.

9 out of 10 times on the indies, it's just about who can throw the stiffest kicks, elbows, punches etc, whoever can pull off the sickest variation of a suplex or who has the baddest looking submission move.

The only indy promotion I can regularly follow is SHIMMER because it's the opposite of what I just said. That and they have some of the best characters.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I love Punk, love Mysterio, & love their matches together... Not sure a "Punishment" DVD would be worth it (would have to check the undercard), but if I could find matches of theirs on any of the sets for each wrestler, can't miss; Story & such in-between not much worth it.

Also, I understand the feeling some have for Hogan-Andre. That said, I have never seen it, & have no problem dying with that being the case.

Lastly, I for one LOVE the Benoit-DX match at WM, but rate Backlash even higher than that. (One of the reasons I dislike calling WM "the biggest stage..." is if the matches don't live up. Thought 20 did, but as far as that match goes, Backlash topped it.)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*No Way Out 2004*

_Tajiri/Akio/Sakoda vs London/Dragon/Kidman(HEAT)
_
High flying 6 man tag match here with 6 talented cruiserweights. Does it's job of getting the crowd pumped before the show. If you love flips, and all of those crazy fast paced style matches, you'll like this match. Popcorn fun, and a very entertaining match. Ultimo Dragon was awesome, wasn't he ? I always was a huge fan of Kidman as well. GREAT for a Sunday Night Heat match for sure.

*** 1/4*

_Bashams/Shaniqua vs Scotty 2 Hotty & Rikishi
_
So, a handicap tag match featuring a stable with two Bashams and a dominatrix.....RIIIIGHT. Scotty botches a hurricarana from the get go, as Rikishi is getting pops here during the end of his tenure here. It's sad that the Bashams were reduced to this gimmick, as Doug was apparently quite awesome in OVW.

Rikishi gets a huge pop for beating on a dominatrix. That just sounds wrong. Fans go crazy for the worm, and the crowd is heating up, but the psychology isn't good. Scotty just randomly jumped up after taking a clothesline he was CLEARLY supposed to stay down from. Bashams actually use some pretty impressive tag moves here, but Shaniqua just kills this. WHY IS SHE necessary. Match is pretty okay to say the least, not sure if it's correct for the opener. Banzai drop ends this. DECENT.

*** *

_Jamie Noble vs Nidia_

Noble is blindfolded for this. Why do I think this is going to suck ? Nidia is owning Noble here early on, and gets in a pretty good leg kick, even though this is RIDICULOUS. Noble shoots for a blind takedown sometimes. This match is so slow, boring and stupid, that it is just ridiculous... WE KNOW HE CAN SEE DAMNIT ! Noble takes the blindfold off and makes Nidia tap with some sitting dragon sleeper hold. In case that you can't already tell, this was horrible and it made no sense. Shame, because Noble was actually quite talented. 

*DUD*

_APA vs World's Greatest Tag Team_

Bradshaw has an injured right arm here. We start off with Benjamin using the grappling style and Faaroq breaking out the brawling style, I'm loving the clashes here. Good armwork by the WGTT 
right here on Faaroq. Shelton showing off athleticism here, as he was ready to get his push. Bradshaw is just DOMINATING here with a huge powerbomb.

Ending is pretty smart, as Bradshaw hits the COH on Haas, who was not the legal man. He did this 
with his injured arm, sells it well, takes a superkick and gets pinned. Pretty decent tag team match here. Loved the style clash. 

*** 1/2*

_Rhyno vs Hardcore Holly_

Before the match starts, a brawl ensues outside for a brief period of time. Some really weak punches by these two start us off. Holly uses a pretty long side headlock, and it's boring a hell. Nobody cares about this match as Holly gets some pretty stiff chops. Rhyno is working on the midsection here as this is starting to become painfully boring.

I mean, it's Rhyno vs Hardcore Holly featuring nothing but side headlocks and body scissors. Rhyno SPITS on Holly, which is pretty intense for a feud that has lasted like 3 days. They are beginning to move like molasses out there. The match actually switches to spanish commentary, and it still isn't exciting. Alabama Slam ends this...After Holly pretty much NO SELLS A GORE. WTF. Boring, Not a good match. TV quality stuff here. BAD TV quality stuff.

** 1/2*

_Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero_

About time I get something worth watching. Mat based to start this off, which isn't bad at all. Chavo goes for the mask, and begins to become a victim to the high-flying Mysterio. The styles are clashing in this even better than the WGTT match as Chavo tries his best to counter Rey's high flying moves, instead of keeping up. Some good near falls here, as Chavo quickly becomes the chickenshit heel in this match. Chavo hits a potentially botched backbreaker from the top rope, and continues his ground game. Chavo begins to work on the midsection here, even getting in a single legged liontamer of some sort. 

This match is awesome but it has a medium sized flaw: after all of that abdomen work, Rey does a moonsault. WHY WOULD HE ATTEMPT THAT ? Anyway, Chavo Classic intereferes and Chavo gets this. Great match with some messed psychology at times, but overall great.

**** 1/2*

_John Cena vs Big Show vs Kurt Angle_

This is getting even better. Big Show using the power game early, tossing around both Cena and Angle. This triple threat style starts off as the more "one on one" based triple threat that we've 
seen before. Really interesting to see what Cena and Angle must do to get Show out of the equation. Cena vs Angle is always great, and when we move to Cena vs Show it's a good clash of 
styles with power vs brawling. FU TO BIG SHOW, and the fast paced/everybody in the ring at once triple threat style begins. Big Show is kicking out of everything, making him look AWESOME.

Both Angle and Show work on Cena's injured knee here, as Angle does his typical Angle non selling 
here, and hooks the Angle lock on Cena. Cena taps VERY quickly. WOW. That HAS to be the last time that Cena tapped out, right ? Great triple threat match here, as once all three were involved at 
once, the pace got better and the match quality improved. A damn good match.

**** 1/2*

_Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero_

What a way to end the show. The people are excited for this match because the show has gotten progressively better, with the "climax" of the show being the main event. We have a simple story here, power vs determination, individual talent vs heart. Going into this match, it honestly looks like another tomato can for Lesnar to crush on his way to Mania, however Eddie has other plans. Lesnar was given the Jackhammer earlier in the night and looks like a pissed off BEAST. 

Brock tossing Eddie around early, taunting him, as Eddie is getting MAJOR pops from the crowd here. Lesnar DEMOLISHING Eddie early on, making me think "wow, a squash match main event". Suplex after suplex after belly-to-belly, Eddie is getting destroyed here. When Eddie gets on offense, he works on the knee of Lesnar, and gets desperate, diving over the top rope trying to plug Lesnar into HIS style and play HIS game. Lesnar's selling is superb, as the knee work is taking away his speed. Lesnar's cockiness allows Eddie to hook an STF, and the crowd goes CRAZY. Lesnar's intensity is off the charts here, as Eddie is using his old school high flying style, mixed with holds like the figure four, which focuses on the bad knee. Brock cannot keep Eddie down here, screaming "DIE EDDIE DIE". Amazing emotion and even bigger psychology in this matchup.

F5 leads to a ref bump and the climax, Goldberg interfering and owning Lesnar with a spear, and the crowd officially EXPLODES here. Brock kicks out as Eddie realizes "hmmm, I can steal this one", with an F5 counter to a tornado DDT. Frog Splash ends this. WHAT A MATCH. Great false finishes and amazing drama towards the end. One of the best WWE championship matches you will EVER see, this match is required viewing. One of the most legendary moments in WWE history. The dream has been fufilled.

***** 3/4*

_Thoughts_

The first hour or so of this show absolutely SUCKS. It features a DUD, two decent tag matches,
and a horrendously boring Holly vs Rhyno match. Once you get to the cruiserweight championship match, however this show takes a turn for the better. The last hour and a half features two great matches wih good psychology and good paces, and an all time classic.

One of my favorite matches ever is the main event, and I don't believe the Goldberg interference takes away from Eddie's reign at all, he "Stole" the belt, it's what he does. Watch the main event ASAP, and watch this PPV, just fast forward the first hour or so. A third of this PPV is focused on the main event, so I HAVE to give this show a good grade.

*7.5/10 *


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Highspots had high shipping prices for me, but the selection's good, yeah. Also took them like two months to deliver because they literally forgot about the order.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I fucking love Eddie/Brock (haha eddie brock from sipder man)


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Just watched Backlash 99 again. Man I wish Undertaker/Ken Shamrock had feuded for a year, they could have had tons of great matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still don't think I've seen Undertaker/Shamrock. Might be the only Undertaker PPV match I've yet to see.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Bret Hitman Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be *

*Disc One*
Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs - ***
Hart Foundation vs. Killer Bees - *** 1/2

*Disc Two*
Bret Hart vs. Ricky Streamboat - ****
Bret Hart vs. Ted DiBiase - **** (Ted DiBiase DVD Please)
Hart Foundation vs. Rockers - ***3/4
Hart Foundation vs. Nasty Boys - ***
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (Summerslam) - ****3/4 
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog (Summerslam) - ****3/4
Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - ***1/2
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (King of the Ring) - *****
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WrestleMania) - *****

*Disc Three*
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - ****
Bret Hart vs Hakushi - ***
Bret Hart vs. Diesel - ****3/4 (Kevin Nash/Diesel DVD Please)
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog (In Your House) - *****
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - ****3/4
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker - ****3/4
Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit - ****1/2

Good lord, what a DVD set. I've never been a fan of Bret Hart but after watching this, he has my support. The documentary is brilliant but the matches, Jesus Christ they are great. Three ***** matches, Four ****3/4 matches and some ****1/2/****, you can't go wrong. The average match on this is well above ****. This set also reminded me how good DiBiase & Kevin Nash were and sets for both men would be a dead set buy from me. Great set and anyone who doesn't own it and has avoided it for so long like I had should get their hands on it ASAP. Only £7.99 on SilverVision.co.uk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Toast. said:


> *Bret Hitman Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be *
> 
> *Disc One*
> Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs - ***
> ...


I've kinda gone down on Bret in the last couple of years, but I still love his DVD set. While I'd much rather watch a mid-card or tag match with say, Dustin Rhodes, I still adore the majority of Bret's "big" matches, most of which are on this set. 

As for the bolded part... why the hell would you want a Nash set?  Any good matches from the guy are already on DVD... plus I'm not sure they'd want to release just ONE disc for a superstar these days (not counting the ones they have been known to do for the likes of Morrison who've barely had a career...), and one disc is all they need for Nash lol.


----------



## Crossface (Sep 22, 2006)

KingCal said:


> _I've kinda gone down on Bret in the last couple of years_, but I still love his DVD set. While I'd much rather watch a mid-card or tag match with say, Dustin Rhodes, I still adore the majority of Bret's "big" matches, most of which are on this set.
> 
> As for the bolded part... why the hell would you want a Nash set?  Any good matches from the guy are already on DVD... plus I'm not sure they'd want to release just ONE disc for a superstar these days (not counting the ones they have been known to do for the likes of Morrison who've barely had a career...), and one disc is all they need for Nash lol.


You sick fuck.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HOLY SHIT a Crossface sighting.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

I seem to be the only one who remembers that Shamrock made HBK and Bret tap out two Raws in a row before Survivor Series. Only time I recall Bret ever tapping.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Bret Hart still holds up as one of the best wrestlers ever. Even though I don't enjoy his matches THAT MUCH nowadays, I can't deny his work was brilliant.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crossface said:


> You sick fuck.


Hey now, don't make me ban you. I have the power on here now too .

Also, your WCW list has fucked up the poll completely. You and your crazy opinions!

But at least you actually dated everything, makes things so much easier... .

Edit: totally confused you with sterling :lmao.

Once I'm done polling shit up, I might just like, watch something for the hell of it. Not because I plan on adding it to a list or whatever, but for... what's that word... fun? Yeah, fun. Though most of the stuff I watched for the poll wasn't exactly a pain to watch... I just had about 150 matches to sit through in the space of a month because I'm lazy .

Huh, seems like this convo should have taken place elsewhere. Ah well. Random rating:

The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair – House Show 10/09/1992 - **1/2


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Probably the only Taker fan who doesn't know this, but does anyone know the exact date Taker turned face for the first time?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Killswitch Stunner said:


> Probably the only Taker fan who doesn't know this, but does anyone know the exact date Taker turned face for the first time?


SNME 30, Feb 8th 1992 .


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Thanks.

Not to knock Flair/Savage, but always thought Hogan/Taker would have been perfect for Mania. Of course, Hogan/Flair was most peoples first pick, but oh well.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I was about to say Crossface would definitely have been a dark horse in the WCW poll given he's barely posted in months, no doubt Sterling put Dustin/Vader 1994 top 5.....


And I'll love him for that :mark: :mark: :mark:


Also yeah, I'm not really a fan of Bret at all thesedays, some of his best matches still hold up well (though I'm definitely not as big a fan of the Owen matches or Davey Boy matches as some), Austin stuff is all marvellous though and I dug ONO v Taker the last time I saw it. That being said I'd still rank someone like Dustin Rhodes or Arn Anderson ahead of him on a GOAT poll, they may not have been given the time and opportunity to wrestle some of the matches Bret has, but I'll be damned if they've ever given notably bad performances or ever made me bored/apathetic to watching them.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Arn was better, yes, but Dustin? No way, man. Dustin was good, really good sometimes, but cannot be compared to Bret Hart. Dustin's WCW years are really underrated sometimes, but putting them ahead of Bret's work is science-fiction, IMO.

Arn Anderson, on the other hand, yes - better than Bret Hart.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

What is the general consensus for the SS 1996 match between Bret and Austin? I'm not that high on the match. It's good, but nowhere near their war at WrestleMania.

Sticking with Bret, I adore his matches with Davey Boy--both of them. I'm higher on the SummerSlam 1992 match than most and I'd take it easily above the Hart brothers' match at 'Mania X.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

How can anyone not like Arn Anderson, his matches were all wrestling clinics. I marked out like crazy when he slammed Taker at WM 18. So cool.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Better seller, better babyface, incredibly charismatic, better offence etc etc I really think Dustin belongs in the discussion for top 20 US workers of all time, and whilst I have him far below Flair, Steamboat,Hansen, Lawler, Funk and Eddie etc I think he's just as worthy as someone like Mysterio, Bret, Austin, Murdoch, Slaughter etc in the tier pushing to get from the top 15 into the top 10.

He was incredibly smooth in the ring and looked like a pro wrestler, was a marvellous FIP who knew how to inject crowds with his charisma and get himself over like Steamboat, Morton, Sting and others did in the same time, he's got some stellar performances and matches and is still a very good worker today even if he gets piss poor time to show it.

Bret's best match is better than Dustin's but bar Bret's 1994 I'd say Dustin from 1990-1994 for the most part could stack up against a lot of guys as far as peak runs go, he was one of the company's aces during their prime and when competition there comes from Arn, Rude, Steamboat, Vader, Flair, Eaton, Zbyszko, Morton, Windham, Austin etc you know the guy was something special. I much prefer him as a babyface worker than Bret and think with the right push he could have been a real force in the territories as a plucky babyface champion, he's just got so much going for him compared to Bret these days that I can't rank Bret ahead of him.

Arn is just the BOSS (well except for Springsteen), that should be common knowledge by now.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I think Bret/Austin SS 1996 was a great match, but not a MOTYC or GOAT. It was simply a great match with great storytelling and strategies, but people overrate it more than sometimes. My rating: ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Razor King said:


> What is the general consensus for the SS 1996 match between Bret and Austin? I'm not that high on the match. It's good, but nowhere near their war at WrestleMania.
> 
> Sticking with Bret, I adore his matches with Davey Boy--both of them. I'm higher on the SummerSlam 1992 match than most and I'd take it easily above the Hart brothers' match at 'Mania X.


I prefer the SS match between Bret and Austin to WM, but only ever so slightly. Too COMPLETELY different matches, and it says a lot about them as performers that they can have 2 ***** (imo of course) matches during the same feud and tell 2 stories that are perhaps more different than any 2 matches between any 2 wrestlers in a series of matches.

As for Bret/Davey, I don't think too much to their matches. WM X with Owen is worlds above any Bret/Davey match for me. Don't like their cage match though. Urgh.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I've not seen SS 1996 in a while but I was a fan of it last time around, though its a step step down from Wrestlemania 13. I seem to remember Cal or Yeah1993 being a big fan of (or at the very least discussing) an Austin/Bret match from Africa I believe, unless I've got the participants wrong but I'm 99% sure its those two.

Canadian Stampede 10 man also kicks all sorts of ass, and whilst we're on the matter of great multi mans the February 2000 10 man tag from Dallas featuring Cactus/Rock/Too Cool v HHH and The Radicalz also needs more love. An insane segment/match with an unbelieveable crowd which is honestly one of the best tv matches the company has put on IMO.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Some people didn't like Bret no selling the Stunner at SS. I never had a problem with it, really. But it's weird that Bret never lost even once to Austin clean. Perhaps had he been around longer, no doubt a huge WWF title match would have happened and he would put Austin over.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah I've not seen SS 1996 in a while but I was a fan of it last time around, though its a step step down from Wrestlemania 13. I seem to remember Cal or Yeah1993 being a big fan of (or at the very least discussing) an Austin/Bret match from Africa I believe, unless I've got the participants wrong but I'm 99% sure its those two.
> 
> Canadian Stampede 10 man also kicks all sorts of ass, and whilst we're on the matter of great multi mans the February 2000 10 man tag from Dallas featuring Cactus/Rock/Too Cool v HHH and The Radicalz also needs more love. An insane segment/match with an unbelieveable crowd which is honestly one of the best tv matches the company has put on IMO.


Yeah, I was pimping their match in South Africa at some point. Really good, but a step below their SS and WM matches.



Killswitch Stunner said:


> Some people didn't like Bret no selling the Stunner at SS. I never had a problem with it, really. But it's weird that Bret never lost even once to Austin clean. Perhaps had he been around longer, no doubt a huge WWF title match would have happened and he would put Austin over.


The "no sell" of the Stunner was at WM.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Oh, I thought it was SS. It's been awhile since I seen it, must be getting old.

I was kinda disappointed in the In Your House match after Mania. Just seems like they would want their final ppv match to be special, but I guess that was just a blowoff match, but the weak DQ ending just seemed kinda lame.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Toast. said:


> *Bret Hitman Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be *
> 
> *Disc One*
> Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs - ***
> ...


Fantastic set. One of my favs. Bret is one of the best ever like him or not. Freakin workhorse. 

Totally agree about DiBiase. He is from my wife's hometown and my home state so I'm a big fan. I'd buy this for sure. There could be some great matches, promos, etc. I'd love to hear your top 15-20 DiBiase matches. 

Not a Nash fan. I have a hard time enjoying his matches. The ones with Bret and HBK were good but besides that....uuugh.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

If it wasn't for Bret and Shawn, he would have no good matches at all in 1995.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

JoeRulz said:


> I think Bret/Austin SS 1996 was a great match, but not a MOTYC or GOAT. It was simply a great match with great storytelling and strategies, but people overrate it more than sometimes. My rating: ***1/2


About right. I'm at the same rating. Maybe slightly higher, but yeah.




KingCal said:


> I prefer the SS match between Bret and Austin to WM, but only ever so slightly. Too COMPLETELY different matches, and it says a lot about them as performers that they can have 2 ***** (imo of course) matches during the same feud and tell 2 stories that are perhaps more different than any 2 matches between any 2 wrestlers in a series of matches.
> 
> As for Bret/Davey, I don't think too much to their matches. WM X with Owen is worlds above any Bret/Davey match for me. Don't like their cage match though. Urgh.


The Cage match certainly doesn't touch their WrestleMania X match. I have it at around *** 3/4. Still a great match in its own right.




Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah I've not seen SS 1996 in a while but I was a fan of it last time around, though its a step step down from Wrestlemania 13. I seem to remember Cal or Yeah1993 being a big fan of (or at the very least discussing) an Austin/Bret match from Africa I believe, unless I've got the participants wrong but I'm 99% sure its those two.
> 
> Canadian Stampede 10 man also kicks all sorts of ass, and whilst we're on the matter of great multi mans the February 2000 10 man tag from Dallas featuring Cactus/Rock/Too Cool v HHH and The Radicalz also needs more love. An insane segment/match with an unbelieveable crowd which is honestly one of the best tv matches the company has put on IMO.


It's amongst the best 10-men tag team match; both the ones you mentioned. Both matches had super hot crowd and the action was non-stop. Incredible matches both and the atmosphere made it even better.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I gotta say, Hart/Diesel from Survivor Series 1995 is one of my favorite WWF/E matches of all time. It was a brilliant storytelling 101.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Great match, a lot better than their match at the Royal Rumble, although that was good too but the run-ins ruined the ending for me.

I wish they would do more elimination matches at SS. 1990 was my favorite. That year they had great elim. matches and then a grand finale match with the previous survivors in a final match. They really don't have the roster for that right now but hopefully one day they will again.


----------



## Crossface (Sep 22, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> HOLY SHIT a Crossface sighting.


Who are you, friend or foe?


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Bret Hart and Kevin Nash had some pretty good chemistry, although I feel Bret Hart had good chemistry with a lot of guys.

In terms of chemistry, I'd have to say that Eddie and Rey have the best I've ever seen. I know about Flair/Steamboat, which is incredible, but not really my personal favorite.

Not sure how "great" the chemistry was between HBK and Bret, though. Recently, the series of Jericho/Mysterio matches a couple years back is one of my favorite series of the modern E. Benoit/Angle did some beautiful things too.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Also Jericho/Benoit, they fought constantly in 2000-2001. Their ladder match at Royal Rumble '01 was one of favorite matches ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Crossface said:


> Who are you, friend or foe?


That depends, are you a degenerate boozehound? If the answer to the previous is 'yes' then friend I be.

I was just surprised to see a Crossface sighting without it being a Shawn Michaels stipulation match :side:

P.S If you don't already know I'm on Cal's forum.


----------



## Crossface (Sep 22, 2006)

Aye. 

I still have no idea who you are though haha.

Umm, wrestling: best PPV matches of last year? I've only really seen HHH/Taker and the two main Punk/Cena's.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

The Orton/Christian matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Smackdown's Elimination Chamber ruled thanks to Mcintyre going on a badass rampage and proving his quality.
Lawler/Miz from the same show was also super, total Lawler formula match but they worked the Riley interference well and gave Lawler some convincing and good nearfalls but still established Miz as a champion by the end.

Cody/Rey and Punk/Orton were the two best matches at Wrestlemania 27 for me, really really good midcard matches with Cody/Rey having a great story centred around the face mask of Rhodes and Punk's workover of Orton's weakened left leg.

Punk/Orton II at Extreme Rules is fine, standard WWE gimmick match these days but its stiff and has some nice sequences and build throughout, a step down from Wrestlemania but perfectly watchable and the best match on the show unless Cody/Rey was better than I remembered. People will point to Christian/Del Rio but I wasn't overly impressed from memory, thought some of the spots were nice and Del Rio took some great bumps but single ladder matches aren't my cup of tea and I don't think its half the match Sheamus v Morrison was from TLC 2010 for example.
Christian/Orton Over The Limit is by far the best match of their series, wonderful face v face matchup with smooth counters that are built to well and don't come off as choreographed, callback spot to their TV match a few weeks prior is also magnificent and vintage Christian.

Rey/Punk from Capitol Punishment was really good as well, not their best match together but a fine outing from both men.

Henry/Sheamus from Summerslam is really really good IMO, total slugfest between two beasts and the finish was great in putting over Henry whilst protecting Sheamus and leaving the feud open for a rematch.

Henry/Orton from NOC is maybe Henry's best performance on his killer 2011 run, a very good match with Orton trying to work out ways to beat Henry but with Henry constantly looking immovable and impenetrable. Very smartly worked and surpassed my expectations given my distain for babyface Viper Orton.

Henry/Show from Vengeance is also extremely great, feels very reminiscent of Batista/Taker from Wrestlemania 23 with it being a total superheavyweight sprint with some good limb work and awesome big man spots for some great false finishes. I also really dug the finish and thought it pretty much defined the Henry character up until that point, shame the feud largely stagnates from this point onwards.

Not really a fan of much else tbh, Punk/Del Rio from memory isn't bad but I think its far lesser than what Punk produced with other workers over the year, Ziggler/Ryder at TLC is fun for a culmination of a long running angle but still not one of Ziggler's best matches. TLC 3 way is quite creative in trying to tease Punk losing but its hardly a great match. Ricardo and Del Rio take killer bumps though.

Definitely watch Henry/Bryan in the Steel Cage from late November if you get chance though, better than most PPV matches in quite a strong year PPV wise for WWE. Only goes 10 minutes but the selling, character dynamic and sequences are marvellous with some good callback spots throughout their mini feud within a month, the highlight being Bryan's counter to Henry's counter to the Labell Lock.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> I gotta say, Hart/Diesel from Survivor Series 1995 is one of my favorite WWF/E matches of all time. It was a brilliant storytelling 101.


That was a great one. 

There was this David V Goliath aspect to it and a great rubber match after 2 other title mathces (Royal Rumble and KotR if memory is correct) that were good but no pins or tap outs.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just watched the 2012 Rumble match (got the DVD for like 8 dollars) and Cody Rhodes is the MVP hands down, imo. Still like the match alot and I got a good kick out of the Foley/Santino segment. My dad fucking loved it. :lmao

Got WM XIX finally too.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Best in-ring chemistry? For me hands down it's Flair and Steamboat. They had great matches in the 70's, early 80's, late 80's (obviously) and their match in I believe it was 93-94 was great as well. Perfect heel V perfect babyface...both great workers and sellers....just a perfect fit. 

Some others that come to mind....

Bret Hart/ Austin
Bret/Owen
Bret/Perfect
Rick Rude/Steamboat
Angle/Benoit
Foley/HHH (some of their matches from 96-97 are really underrated)
Flair/Sting
Eddie/Rey
Pillman/ Jushin Thunder Liger 
Savage/DiBiase
Savage/Flair
Taker/HBK
Edge/Cena


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Punk/Cena
Orton/Benoit
Dustin Rhodes/Vader
Lawler/Dundee
Flair/Windham
Dibiase/Duggan
Rock n Roll Express/Midnight Express
Sting/Vader
Benoit/Eddie
Funk/Lawler
Austin/Angle
Austin/Beniot
Danielson/Henry
Masters/Mcintyre
Christian/Swagger
Cena/HBK
Taker/Batista


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena and Edge had great chemistry together. I really can't think of one bad match both men have had.. Their Summerslam '06 match is probably the worst of their bouts and it's not even a bad match.

Cena and Triple H also had good chemistry likewise Cena and HBK. Honestly speaking, within the last 5 or 6 years John Cena has been one of the best in-ring workers in the company and has had good chemistry with almost all his opponents. Cena and Umaga was another good pairing and the guy even got a good match out of Khali.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I could see a Cena/Edge rivalry DVD down the road like the Bret/HBK one. 

Totally agree with the chemistry of Sting/Vader and Punk/Cena being great


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Love the Edge/Cena TLC and LMS matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Picked up these DVDs today pretty cheap, gotta love amazon....

http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Wrestling...B1V6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330725340&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Best-View...1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1330725397&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Best-Smac...1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1330725423&sr=1-1


----------



## doinktheclowns (Feb 27, 2011)

*Reccomend matches and locations to watch matches of technical greats.*

I've been wanting to do this for a long time now and although Im a big fan of their work I would like to see more and really appreciate the ability of some of the most underrated wrestlers in WWE history. It has almost become fashionable to like these guys rather than the obvious guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan etc but my reasoning is wanting to lean more about the true greats and see some great technical matches rather than the PPV main events. 
I want to see multiple decent matches by these guys and appreciate their work, im talking about guys like;

Ricky Steamboat "The Dragon"
Rowdy Rody Piper
British Bulldog
Jimmy Snuka
Dusty Rhodes
Jake The Snake Roberts
Rick Rude
Mr Perfect
Randy Savage

Some of these guys where my heros as a child, but obviously back then I had no idea that I was actually watching the technical greats and would like to revisit some of their matches.

Obviously Youtube is going to get the biggest mention, but its difficult to do that when your searching for somebody but you have no idea of some of their great matches, it would be great if there was a collection of videos together or a DVD on these guys.

And recommendations of where to watch these videos or what matches would be great to watch then please say. Thanks


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not a fan of any Edge/Cena match tbh. Its kinda like Cena/Orton for me. Boring, dull feuds with mediocre matches 99% of the time. I quite liked the LMS match between Edge/Cena though, and I ADORE Cena/Orton's NWO 08 match. Other than those I just didn't care.


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

*Re: Reccomend matches and locations to watch matches of technical greats.*

XWT my friend you can find so much classic technical wrestling.

There now letting new members register so go sign up.


----------



## Pop Tatari (May 27, 2011)

*Re: Reccomend matches and locations to watch matches of technical greats.*

Dynamite Kid is a must to check out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Reccomend matches and locations to watch matches of technical greats.*

Firstly, get Ricky Steamboat's name right . Secondly, remove Jimmy Snuka from that list. He's neither a technical wizz in the ring or good (although I hear ok things about his stuff outside of WWF in the 70's and 80's or something, but I've had zero intentions of looking him up ). Piper isn't technical either, but he does have some great stuff out there. Anyway. Thirdly, http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/604063-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread.html this is probably the best place to get answers. Ah screw it, I'll merge this with that thread.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

(in response to the merged topic regarding Scientific/Technical Wrestling)

Volk Han v Tamura RINGS 1997 is pretty much the default answer here.

A lot of WOS matches are very scientific/holds based but its an acquired style compared to what you get in America, some love it and others can't adjust to the setting and hate it. Lucha is also a great example of matwork and scientific wrestling: Atlantos v Blue Panther 1991 on Youtube has some of the greatest pro wrestling matwork you'll ever see, as does Damiancito El Guerrero v Cicloncito Ramirez from CMLL in 1997.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Shoutout to the Mascaras and Destroyer AJPW '74 match if you wanna see some fit matwork.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

*Re: Reccomend matches and locations to watch matches of technical greats.*



doinktheclowns said:


> I've been wanting to do this for a long time now and although Im a big fan of their work I would like to see more and really appreciate the ability of some of the most underrated wrestlers in WWE history. It has almost become fashionable to like these guys rather than the obvious guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan etc but my reasoning is wanting to lean more about the true greats and see some great technical matches rather than the PPV main events.
> I want to see multiple decent matches by these guys and appreciate their work, im talking about guys like;
> 
> Ricky Steam Boat Dragon
> ...


I highly recommend getting Savage's dvd. Worth every penny.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Great work? Cena-Edge (I barely realized the year had passed when their stuff was over), Cena-Punk, & (as someone mentioned) the battling Chris'es.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Guys, I was wondering if you could hook me up with a few of these matches in good quality. If you can, then let me know:

Triple H vs Chris Jericho FL 00
Triple H vs The Rock JD 00
Triple H vs Mick Foley vs Big Show vs The Rock WM 00
Triple H vs Chris Benoit NM 00
Triple H vs Kurt Angle UNF 00

Trying to do a definitive HHH list. 

Also, strongly considering doing a John Cena PPV match project, there's only 10-15 PPV matches of his that I don't own. I need to prove that he is a better in ring worker than Dwayne.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

There are a lot of people who are better in ring workers than The Rock. However, there aren't too many people that can infuse their charisma into a match, build excitement and drama, and play a strong babyface that can take a beating and sell it like The Rock and make a molten hot, strong comeback. Rock is an amazing athlete. He’s smart about portraying his character and playing the crowd. That's why I'm a fan of his work. For me Rock probably hasn't had a boring match since his Rocky Maivia days.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm slowly getting through Rock's set and I must say, without a hot crowd, Rock's matches are usually boring until the ending.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

Rock was a good worker, charisma-wise, but without that, he is pretty bland in the ring. Luckily he had great workers to work with all the time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

90s Rock needed someone that was at least as good as he was to have a good match, but by like, 2001 he was great. I remember thinking he was really clearly the better guy in the No Mercy match with Jericho, which is a great match. He looked as good as most people in America in 2002 as well. Had he really stuck around that year it would have been a great one. 

Plus, the Austin match at Mania 19 is mostly him, and is a stupendous match too.

Cena's peak is better, definitely, but Cena's had lows and bad feuds with people that I can't over-look if I'm comparing him to Dwayne.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Reccomend matches and locations to watch matches of technical greats.*



Pop Tatari said:


> Dynamite Kid is a must to check out.


Agreed 110%. 

When you talk underrated that is one of the first names that comes to my mind. I loved the Bulldogs growing up. 

As far as underrated guys I'll add these guys as well....

Steamboat
Rick Martel
Vader
Perfect
DiBiase
Rude
Jake Roberts
Tito Santana
Owen Hart


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

I knew Edge retiring really sucked, but when you look at all the good matches of the last 5 years, Edge was in almost all of them.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Killswitch Stunner said:


> I knew Edge retiring really sucked, but when you look at all the good matches of the last 5 years, Edge was in almost all of them.


You make a great point. Last summer when Punk won the title one of the first things I thought of was how badass a Punk (face)/ Edge (heel) feud would be. I could see that main eventing Mania this year. Well besides PG boy/Dwayne.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

My biggest disappointment was we never got a Edge/Christian feud on Smackdown. That feud would have really been awesome. Edge/Punk too, no doubt.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Couple things....

The Savage 3 disc DVD set might be the best WWE has put out. Maybe I'm being a mark a little bit but the match selection is excellent. Only 2-3 I'd replace. Plus you get to look at Maria who I would do unspeakable things to if she let me. 

As for Dwayne....I have gone through phases with Rock. Didn't like him at first and then he grew on me. Then didn't like him and then he grew on me again. I feel like he really grew into his role. I think guys like Austin, Foley, Angle and Trips brought out the best in him. It was rare from 1999-2003 that a crowd wasn't going ape shit for a Rock match. During that time frame he was one of the best heels ever and one of the best faces ever. Like him or not you can't deny his charisma and being athletic as hell in his prime.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Guys, I was wondering if you could hook me up with a few of these matches in good quality. If you can, then let me know:
> 
> Triple H vs Chris Jericho FL 00
> Triple H vs The Rock JD 00
> ...


All the matches you asked for are on PPVs from 2000 so those are easy to find. Here's a link to part 1 of the HHH/Y2J match you requested from Fully Loaded. 






Go on this channel and just search for them. You'll find all in pretty good quality.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

BrosOfDestruction said:


> All the matches you asked for are on PPVs from 2000 so those are easy to find. Here's a link to part 1 of the HHH/Y2J match you requested from Fully Loaded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This youtube channel is great. I watch stuff on there a lot.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I agree that Rock's matches largely depend on the crowd. That said, I try not to knock them now, as his non-match in-ring work suffered during his time away.

Also, I really am glad we didn't see an Edge-Christian feud. That "former partners feuding" bit has been done to death in WWE... Not to mention Edge might have retired faster if he had to carry Christian in a feud.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't think of any good Edge match where he was better performer. Maybe something with Batista.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

JoeRulz said:


> I gotta say, Hart/Diesel from Survivor Series 1995 is one of my favorite WWF/E matches of all time. It was a brilliant storytelling 101.


I prefer the Rumble match. It's one of my favorite matches for any title because it really was all about the title and the match just showed that.




Clique said:


> There are a lot of people who are better in ring workers than The Rock. However, there aren't too many people that can infuse their charisma into a match, build excitement and drama, and play a strong babyface that can take a beating and sell it like The Rock and make a molten hot, strong comeback. Rock is an amazing athlete. He’s smart about portraying his character and playing the crowd. That's why I'm a fan of his work. For me Rock probably hasn't had a boring match since his Rocky Maivia days.


This is as good an analogy of the Rock, the wrestler--as I have read in quite some time. The Rock's stuff in the 90s might qualify as boring, but most of his matches from 2000 onwards have been very entertaining. As Yeah said, from 2001 onwards, Rock just started coming on his own and was performing better than majority of his peers.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I can't think.


As I wrote in something years ago (yet to be published), "Why waste words?" The edit above means about the same thing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You really can't post without sounding like an idiot can you?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> You really can't post without sounding like an idiot can you?


Says the man with the admitted "cheap sig plug" for his wrestling blog?!

Seriously, though, I posted intelligent things a lot, & I seem to get neg rep from people who don't understand, etc. I try posting low intelligence (knowing my audience), & get people giving me the same rep for belittling them, etc.

Figured it'd be best if I tried to upset people, or else appear a failure.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I...don't care enough to have an argument, but shit, if you don't agree with what I said about Edge, just...talk about that. I won't act defensive and be "opinions are opinions," and at the same time if someone thinks Edge is the best ever, I'm not going to talk down to them. I don't think you're unintelligent and I'm not remotely upset about anything, but I'm obv. not going to waste time backing anything up if someone just edits my post and spouts something about...whatever it was.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I...don't care enough to have an argument, but shit, if you don't agree with what I said about Edge, just...talk about that. I won't act defensive and be "opinions are opinions," and at the same time if someone thinks Edge is the best ever, I'm not going to talk down to them. I don't think you're unintelligent and I'm not remotely upset about anything, but I'm obv. not going to waste time backing anything up if someone just edits my post and spouts something about...whatever it was.


Yeah; I've posted my opinion on Edge & several others many times before. It doesn't seem to matter. I continue posting my opinions here on matches, shows, & specific wrestlers, hoping someone will someday read what I write & respond to it. Regardless, I get "rep" that seems to have nothing to do with what I said or how I said it. I also get comments from people about the way I said things, both the kind that ask me to say it differently & the kind that make it quite clear they didn't understand what I actually said. (For instance, attacking/yelling, only to express an opinion I share.)

So forgive me if you felt like the first one, but I figured editing someone else's post & not doing much typing of my own was my best way to waste the least amount of time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

TJChurch said:


> Says the man with the admitted "cheap sig plug" for his wrestling blog?!
> 
> Seriously, though, I posted intelligent things a lot, & I *seem to get neg rep from people *who don't understand, etc. I try posting low intelligence (*knowing my audience*), & get people giving me the same rep for belittling them, etc.
> 
> Figured it'd be best if I tried to upset people, or else appear a failure.


Maybe thats why? 

I have no issue with you man. Same with Yeah. I forget what I said the other day but Yeah didn't like it. I didn't try and one up him or dog on him. That is not my style. At the same time you can come off like a jerk sometimes. I have never felt it was personal toward me. I enjoy what you bring to the board. We are all here to have fun and talk rasslin right? Lets all just do that and not be asshats to each other. That is just how I roll though. I don't really have it in me to have a feud with someone on a message board. 

As you were guys.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The day Edge carries Christian in anything is the day Kurt Angle outworks Jerry Lawler.

Ain't gonna happen.

As for TJChurch, talking about how your peers are 'unintelligent' really isn't gonna help with people having a low opinion of you. Your problem is you get aggressive and defensive when someone challenges your opinion and you struggle to have a back and forth discussion that doesn't contain snide insults. Some of the best posters on this forum visit this thread (Cal, Sterling, -Mystery-, Yeah1993, Andy3000, McQueen, Clique etc etc) and regularly contribute good discussion about a variety of matches and workers, at the end of the day we all have differing opinions from time to time about who's the best or who's better than someone else, but you never see us in anything but an honest discussion when comparing wrestlers and their talent. And that's why this thread is superior to any worker related thread you get in the WWE section, where petty insults and arguments are made with people making little effort to expand on their point.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

Got to agree about Edge. I don't think at any point in his career he was any better than good. That's not to say he didn't have many very good to great matches, which he was perfectly capable of doing with the right opponent. Basically what he did is made the most of what he had and it worked for him. Props.

Oh and @Segunda Caida I know this doesn't exactly belong in this thread but I know you are a Finlay mark so I thought I might aswell bring it up. Are you aware that he had a match with Tajiri in SMASH this year?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Aye I've been meaning to watch that match, heard it get pimped highly by a lot of people I share similar tastes with (bar Seabs for not liking it that much, the rotten bastard!) but between uni work, uni social life and me being a bit lazy I've put it on the back burner.

I've got nothing much on today so I might try and watch the match and a couple of other lesser known matches people have been quietly raving about from this year, cheers for the potential heads up though.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

there are wrong opinions. like tna fans about kurt angle

which is basically why i gave up on wrestling. people having wrong and dumb opinion


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

redeadening said:


> there are wrong opinions. like tna fans about kurt angle
> 
> which is basically why i gave up on wrestling. people having wrong and dumb opinion


You gave up on 'rasslin because of other people's opinions? :kobe


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even when they are wrong and/or ridiculous. Its pro wrestling so it's all mostly opinion and preference. If you agree with me or like what I like thats awesome. If you disagree or don't like what I like...I wont lose sleep over it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Opinions are opinions, offer an explanation/argument as to why you like someone others dislike etc anf you're good with me. I mean Clique is by far higher on Kurt Angle than a lot of regulars in this thread, but he puts across his viewpoint so well that even if I disagree with it I never lose respect for his opinion on other wrestlers.

Its the people who post 'Lol trolls gonna troll' when you slate a popular worker for not being very good that annoy me, they resort to that hideous 'why should I even argue with such stupidity' copout answer and just pollute the thread with stupidity. Thank christ that very rarely occurs in this thread.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*The True Story of WrestleMania*

*Disc One*
*WrestleMania* Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & 'Mr. Wonderful' Paul Orndorff - **1/2
*WrestleMania III* Randy 'Macho Man' Savage vs. Ricky 'the Dragon' Steamboat - *****
*WrestleMania III* Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant - **
*WrestleMania VII* Randy 'Macho Man' Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior - *****
*WrestleMania X* Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - ****1/2

*Disc Two*
*WrestleMania XIV* Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin - ***3/4
*WrestleMania 2000* The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian - ****
*WrestleMania X-Seven* Shane McMahon vs. Vince McMahon - ***1/2
*WrestleMania X-8* The Rock vs. Hollywood Hogan - ****
*WrestleMania XIX* Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - ****1/2
*WrestleMania 22* John Cena vs. Triple H - ****

*Blu-Ray Exclusive Content*
*WrestleMania XXIV* CM Punk vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Carlito vs. MVP vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. John Morrison - ***3/4
*WrestleMania XXV* The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - ****3/4
*WrestleMania XXVI* Batista vs. John Cena - ***3/4


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*WWE - Best of 2011 (19 Discs)*


Spoiler: Matchlisting



Vol. 1
Disc 1
The Miz vs John Morrison - Falls Count Anywhere - WWE Championship - Raw 03.01.2011
Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - Steel Cage Match - Raw 03.01.2011
Daniel Bryan & Mark Henry vs Tyson Kidd & Ted DiBiase - Superstars 06.01.2011
Edge vs Kane - Last Man Standing - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 07.01.2011
Dolph Ziggler vs Big Show vs Drew McIntyre vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 07.01.2011
Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio - 2 Out Of 3 Falls - Smackdown 07.01.2011
Yoshi Tatsu, David Hart Smith, Primo & Darren Young vs William Regal, Zach Ryder & The Usos - Superstars 13.01.2011

Disc 2
CM Punk vs John Cena - Raw 17.01.2011
Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd - Superstars 20.01.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - NXT 25.01.2011
Edge vs Dolph Ziggler - World Heavyweight Championship - Royal Rumble 2011
Edge vs Dolph Ziggler - Special Guest Referee Vickie Guerrero - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 11.02.2011
CM Punk vs John Cena - Raw 14.02.2011
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz - Raw 14.02.2011

Disc 3
Edge, Rey Mysterio, John Cena, Randy Orton, John Morrison & R-Truth vs CM Punk, Wade Barrett, Drew McIntyre, Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler & Kane - Smackdown 18.02.2011
Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane vs Wade Barrett vs Drew McIntyre vs Big Show - Elimination Chamber Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber 2011
The Miz vs Jerry Lawler - WWE Championship - Elimination Chamber 2011
John Cena vs CM Punk vs John Morrison vs Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs R-Truth - Elimination Chamber Match - Elimination Chamber 2011

Disc 4
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - Superstars 24.02.2011
Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - Steel Cage Match - Smackdown 18.03.2011
Daniel Bryan & Gail Kim vs Tyson Kidd & Melina - Superstars 24.03.2011
Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - Smackdown 25.03.2011
Edge vs Alberto Del Rio - World Heavyweight Championship - WrestleMania 27
Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio - WrestleMania 27
Randy Orton vs CM Punk - WrestleMania 27

Disc 5
Undertaker vs Triple H - No Holds Barred - WrestleMania 27
Randy Orton & Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk & Cody Rhodes - Raw 04.04.2011
Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd - Superstars 07.04.2011
The Corre vs Big Show, Kane, Santino Marella & Kofi Kingston - 2 Out Of 3 Falls - Smackdown 08.04.2011
Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - Smackdown 08.04.2011
CM Punk vs Randy Orton - Raw 18.04.2011

Disc 6

Trent Barreta vs Tyson Kidd - Superstars 28.04.2011
Randy Orton vs CM Punk - Last Man Standing - Extreme Rules 2011
Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes - Falls Count Anywhere - Extreme Rules 2011
Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - Ladder Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2011
John Cena vs The Miz vs John Morrison - Steel Cage Match - WWE Championship - Extreme Rules 2011

Disc 7
John Cena vs The Miz - WWE Championship - Raw 02.05.2011
Trent Barretta vs Jey Uso - Superstars 05.05.2011
Evan Bourne vs Zack Ryder - Superstars 05.05.2011
Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 06.05.2011
Christian vs Randy Orton - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 06.05.2011
The Miz vs Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio - Raw 09.05.2011
Tyson Kidd vs Trent Barreta - Superstars 12.05.2011
Chris Masters vs Drew McIntyre - Superstars 12.05.2011
Sin Cara vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 13.05.2011

Disc 8
Tyson Kidd vs Yoshi Tatsu - Superstars 19.05.2011
Drew McIntyre vs Evan Bourne - Superstars 19.05.2011
Christian vs Sheamus - Smackdown 20.05.2011
Randy Orton vs Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - Over The Limit 2011
*BONUS* The Rock Returns - Raw 14.02.2011
*BONUS* Rock & Cena Promo - Raw 04.04.2011

Vol. 2
Disc 1
Santino Marella vs Zack Ryder - Superstars 26.05.2011
Tyson Kidd vs Trent Barretta - Superstars 26.05.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 27.05.2011
Christian vs Sheamus vs Mark Henry - Smackdown 27.05.2011
Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston - Raw 30.05.2011
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Raw 30.05.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - Smackdown 03.06.2011
Randy Orton vs Sheamus - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 03.06.2011
Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd - Superstars 09.06.2011

Disc 2
Randy Orton vs Sheamus - No DQ - Smackdown 10.06.2011
Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Capitol Punishment 2011
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Capitol Punishment 2011
Randy Orton vs Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - Capitol Punishment 2011
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio - Falls Count Anywhere - Raw 20.06.2011

Disc 3
Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston - 2 Out Of 3 Falls - US Championship - Raw 20.06.2011
John Cena, Randy Orton & Alex Riley vs The Miz, Christian & R-Truth - Raw 20.06.2011
Cody Rhodes vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 24.06.2011
Rey Mysterio & Alex Riley vs The Miz & Jack Swagger - Raw 27.06.2011
Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd - NXT 26.06.2011
Gail Kim vs Beth Pheonix - Superstars 30.05.2011
Trent Barretta & The Usos vs Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel & Heath Slater - Superstars 30.06.2011

Disc 4
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase - Smackdown 01.07.2011
Christian vs Sin Cara - Smackdown 01.07.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 15.07.2011
Justin Gabriel vs Heath Slater - Smackdown 15.07.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus vs Kane vs Wade Barrett vs Cody Rhodes vs Sin Cara vs Justin Gabriel vs Heath Slater - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2011
Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio vs Evan Bourne vs The Miz vs Alex Riley vs Kofi Kingston vs Jack Swagger vs R-Truth - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2011

Disc 5
Randy Orton vs Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - Money In The Bank 2011
CM Punk vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Money In The Bank 2011
Evan Bourne vs Primo - Superstars 21.07.2011
Christian vs Ezekial Jackson - Smackdown 22.07.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater - Smackdown 22.07.2011
Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - Smackdown 22.07.2011

Disc 6
Randy Orton vs Kane - Street Fight - Smackdown 22.07.2011
Rey Mysterio vs The Miz - WWE Championship - Raw 25.07.2011
John Cena vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Championship - Raw 25.07.2011
Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd - Necklace On A Pole Match - NXT 26.07.2011
Christian vs John Morrison - Smackdown 29.07.2011
The Miz & R-Truth vs Rey Mysterio & John Morrison - Raw 01.08.2011
Chris Masters vs Jack Swagger - Superstars 04.08.2011

Disc 7
Daniel Bryan vs Tyson Kidd - Smackdown 05.08.2011
Christian & R-Truth vs Randy Orton & John Morrison - Smackdown 05.08.2011
The Miz vs Kofi Kingston - Raw 08.08.2011
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - Raw 08.08.2011
Justin Gabriel vs Tyson Kidd - NXT 09.08.2011
Darren Young vs Matt Striker - NXT 09.08.2011
Rey Mysterio, John Morrison & Kofi Kingston vs The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & R-Truth - Summerslam 2011
Mark Henry vs Sheamus - Summerslam 2011
Kelly Kelly vs Beth Phoenix - Divas Championship - Summerslam 2011

Disc 8
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - Summerslam 2011
Randy Orton vs Christian - No Holds Barred - World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2011
CM Punk vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Summerslam 2011
Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Championship - Raw 15.08.2011

Disc 9
Alberto Del Rio vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 19.08.2011
Alberto Del Rio vs John Morrison - Raw 22.08.2011
John Cena vs CM Punk - Raw 22.08.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Drew McIntyre - Superstars 25.08.2011
Christian vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 26.08.2011
Randy Orton vs Ted DiBiase - Smackdown 26.08.2011
Mark Henry vs Sheamus - Smackdown 26.08.2011

Disc 10
Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 29.08.2011
Randy Orton vs Christian - Steel Cage Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 30.08.2011
John Cena, Sheamus, John Morrison & Alex Riley vs Christian, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger & Wade Barrett - 8 Man Elimination Tag Match - Raw 05.09.2011
William Regal vs Darren Young - NXT 06.09.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater - Superstars 08.09.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Sin Cara - Smackdown 16.09.2011

Vol. 3
Disc 1
Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger vs John Morrison vs Alex Riley - US Championship - Night Of Champions 2011
Mark Henry vs Randy Orton - World Heavyweight Championship - Night Of Champions 2011
Kelly Kelly vs Beth Phoenix - Divas Championship - Night Of Champions 2011
John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio - WWE Championship - Night Of Champions 2011
Triple H vs CM Punk - No DQ Match - Night Of Champions 2011

Disc 2
Zack Ryder vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 19.09.2011
John Cena & CM Punk vs The Miz & R-Truth - Raw 19.09.2011
Tyson Kidd vs Ted DiBiase - Superstars 22.09.2011
Usos vs JTG & Darren Young - NXT 27.09.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Trent Barretta - Superstars 29.09.2011
John Morrison vs Drew McIntyre - Superstars 29.09.2011
Randy Orton vs Christian - Smackdown 30.09.2011

Disc 3
Sheamus vs Christian - Hell In A Cell 2011
Evan Bourne & Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger - Unified Tag Team Championships - Hell In A Cell 2011
Mark Henry vs Randy Orton - Hell In A Cell - World Heavyweight Championship - Hell In A Cell 2011
Alberto Del Rio vs John Cena vs CM Punk - Hell In A Cell - WWE Championship - Hell In A Cell 2011

Disc 4
John Cena, CM Punk, Evan Bourne, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus & Mason Ryan vs Alberto Del Rio, Christian, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger & David Otunga - Raw 03.10.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater - NXT 05.10.2011
Usos vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - NXT 05.10.2011
Usos vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - NXT 12.10.2011
Evan Bourne & Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger - Unified Tag Team Championships - Vengeance 2011
Beth Phoenix vs Eve - Divas Championship - Vengeance 2011
Mark Henry vs Big Show - World Heavyweight Championship - Vengeance 2011

Disc 5
Alberto Del Rio vs John Cena - Last Man Standing - WWE Championship - Vengeance 2011
Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 28.10.2011
CM Punk vs Christian - Smackdown 28.10.2011
Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd - Superstars 03.11.2011
John Morrison vs Drew McIntyre - Superstars 03.11.2011
Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - Street Fight - Smackdown 04.11.2011

Disc 6
Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - Smackdown 04.11.2011
Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 04.11.2011
Tyson Kidd vs Trent Barretta - NXT 09.11.2011
Justin Gabriel vs Curt Hawkins - Superstars 10.11.2011
Daniel Bryan vs William Regal - Superstars 10.11.2011
Sheamus vs Christian - Smackdown 11.11.2011
Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 11.11.2011
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett - Smackdown 11.11.2011
Tyson Kidd vs Trent Barretta - Superstars 17.11.2011
Dolph Ziggler vs Sin Cara - Smackdown 18.11.2011

Disc 7
Dolph Ziggler vs John Morrison - US Championship - Survivor Series 2011
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - WWE Championship - Survivor Series 2011
The Rock & John Cena vs The Miz & R-Truth - Survivor Series 2011
CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 21.11.2011

Disc 8
Drew McIntyre vs Ted DiBiase - Superstars 24.11.2011
Sheamus & Zack Ryder vs Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger - Smackdown 25.11.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 25.11.2011
Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton - Raw 28.11.2011
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - WWE Championship - Raw 28.11.2011
Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan - Steel Cage Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 29.11.2011

Disc 9
Justin Gabriel vs Tyson Kidd - Superstars 08.12.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown 09.12.2011
Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 09.12.2011
Dolph Ziggler vs Zack Ryder vs Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes - Raw 12.12.2011
John Cena, CM Punk & Big Show vs Mark Henry, The Miz & Alberto Del Rio - Tribute To The Troops 2011
Drew McIntyre vs Justin Gabriel - Superstars 15.12.2011
Cody Rhodes vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 16.12.2011
Randy Orton & Zack Ryder vs Wade Barrett & Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 16.12.2011

Disc 10
Zack Ryder vs Dolph Ziggler - US Championship - TLC 2011
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs The Miz - TLC Match - WWE Championship - TLC 2011
Evan Bourne & Kofi Kingston vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - Superstars 22.12.2011
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 23.12.2011

Disc 11
CM Punk vs Jack Swagger & Dolph Ziggler - Gauntlet Match - Raw 26.12.2011
Justin Gabriel vs Heath Slater - NXT 28.12.2011
Yoshi Tatsu vs Tyson Kidd - Superstars 29.12.2011
Evan Bourne & Kofi Kingston vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - Superstars 29.12.2011



*PM me for any more info on prices, etc.*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

If you want some good, old fashioned scientific wrestling then look no further than catch wrestling. If you go on Youtube and search World of Sport there's lots of matches from the 70s and 80s. 

I'm going to watch Cena vs Orton from NWO 08 later. I keep hearing about how great it is. To me none of Cena and Orton's matches are good, but maybe on this night things just clicked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If you like matches that are more storytelling based than action packed then you should love it . I don't like any of their other matches either (I quit is ok but the end kinda ruins it), but this one is totally different to them all.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> You gave up on 'rasslin because of other people's opinions? :kobe


Gave up. Its bad enough the companies are all insultingly stupid, but the fans dont have to be that way too.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I would really like to see a DiBiase DVD set someday. They could call it Everybody's Got a Price. Maybe a doc and old interviews and such. Like the time he tried to buy the belt from Hogan and the time he paid a kid money to dribble a basketball 10 times and after the 9th time he knocked it out of his hands. Looking back at the time (late 87 I believe) that was brilliant. 

I dont know much about his mid-south, NWA, New Japan days but maybe a match or two from there. I know there is a tag match with him and Dr. Death Steve Williams V Sting and Warrior. Here are some WWF matches they could have.....

Ted DiBiase vs. Jim Duggan 8/28/87 (I believe this was his first taped match against a non jobber)

Ted DiBiase vs. The Junkyard Dog 10/7/87

Ted DiBiase vs. Don Muraco 3/29/88 WrestleMania 4

Ted DiBiase vs. Randy Savage 3/29/88 WrestleMania 4 

Ted DiBiase vs. Randy Savage 7/31/88 WrestleFest (great match...I heard a rumor where Vince wanted to give the title to DiBiase on this night)

Ted DiBiase vs. Randy Savage 10/16/1988 King of the Ring final

Ted DiBiase vs. Hercules 2/3/89

Ted DiBiase vs. Beefcake 4/2/1989 WrestleMania 5

1990 Royal Rumble where they made him come out 1st for buying the #1 spot the year before...he lasted like 45 mins

Ted DiBiase vs. Jake Roberts Wrestlemania 6 (my fav match from this PPV)

The Million $ Team (Ted DiBiase, The Undertaker, and Rhythm & Blues (The Honky Tonk Man and Greg Valentine) (with Virgil, Jimmy Hart, and Brother Love) V The Dream Team (Dusty Rhodes, Koko B. Ware, and The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart and Jim Neidhart)

Ted DiBiase V Virgil Summerslam 1991

Ted DiBiase & Mike Rotunda (Money Inc) V Road Warriors (LOD) Summerslam 1992

Money Inc V Savage/Warrior SNME 10-27-1992

Money Inc V Hogan/Beefcake Wrestlemania 9


I know Im missing some goods ones. There are some good matches with Bret on Bret's DVD set and the SNME DVD set. If they could find another one that is good quality that should go on here. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

best razor ramon matches?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I watched the Orton/Punk match from WM 27 yesterday and realized a huge flaw. Why in the hell would a guy with an injured knee do a superplex? He didn't even just do a superplex either he paused standing on the top rope for a good five seconds before executing the move. Orton the spent the rest of the match selling the knee injury again. Are we supposed to believe he didn't have the power to kick but could manage throwing Punk off the top rope? Sorry for the mini rant but I didn't notice it the first couple of times I saw the match and it annoyed the crap out of me.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I really don't like Orton. Im not a hater I just don't think he is very good in the ring. I think his DDT is stupid.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Orton vs Punk sucks. My intial rating I believe was some where in the ** star range. Their match at Extreme Rules was better. I hate storylines where one of the guys going into gets injured. It takes a high level of creativity and psychology to pull such a feat off. I prefer when both men go in fresh, the outcome is much better since the competitors aren't limited creatively.

Orton/Rhodes was the best undercard match at WM 27 and both men worked the match around Rhode's msk so well. I have it at ***1/2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

redeadening said:


> Gave up. Its bad enough the companies are all insultingly stupid, but the fans dont have to be that way too.


No, the mainstream companies are stupid, with WWE being the most stupid. You just gotta be agile and find something different, just like with movies, TV shows, music, comics, anime, etc.

And the fans are stupid? Duuuh! The hell with them, I like what I like.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> No, the mainstream companies are stupid, with WWE being the most stupid. You just gotta be agile and find something different, just like with movies, TV shows, music, comics, anime, etc.
> 
> And the fans are stupid? Duuuh! The hell with them, I like what I like.


Meh, even the indies are rotting

The golden age this aint anymore. Between the era marks, rock lunatics, 4 year old cena fans and Punk fanatic, then the tna asylum, and the kids with zero understanding of the business, the history, the meaning of wrestling, it just sucks

Nostalgia's a bitch. Every single person on this place is clouded by it or mob anti mentalities. Sometimes, you just have enough. You grow sick of it.

THIS IS WHY THE BUSINESS IS DYING


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Found this article today of the 28 best matches in WM history. I agree with maybe half of the matches but the order is just terrible. I was thinking of making my own list down the road closer to WM. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ycn-11045590


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

WWE Best PPV Matches 2009-2010

Yes or No?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd say yes, I put that DVD in quite a bit.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> WWE Best PPV Matches 2009-2010
> 
> Yes or No?


I just bought it. It's on it's way to me.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Here's my reviews of all 19 Undertaker Wrestlemania Matches! The Streak in Full! 

*Vs. "Superfly" Jimmy Snuka at Wrestlemania VII*

This is a match that has become more historically significant over time. If The Undertaker had flopped as a gimmick and was gone by the end of 91, we would look back on this match as a shitty squash match Mania filler for a gimmick that ultimately went nowhere. Now though? It was the start of a legacy. It was the start of a 2 decade storyline that carries through Wrestlemania up to this very day. It was more than just the Wrestlemania debut of The Undertaker. It was the start of something special and we didn't even know it. The match itself is just a squash match used to kill time & feature a newer character. That's about it. Taker made quick work of Snuka and that was that. So I wouldn't say it was a "good match" but it was a good display for Taker's abilities & character, & like I said, it started the streak, so its got history backing it. 

*Vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts at Wrestlemania VIII*

This Mania was weird as it felt like Plan A got thrown out the window and they had to switch everybody around. The plan seemed like it was going to be Hogan Vs. Flair for the Title, Savage Vs. Jake in some kind of Loser Leaves Type of Stipulation, and Undertaker Vs. Sid as the trademark big man match. But plans changed, Sid turned heel to face Hogan, and Savage went for the gold against Flair, which left Jake & Taker, two partners, to be paired together in a feud. What really struck me though was how easy it was to accept Taker as a babyface. The feud was rushed, for sure, but I'll always remember that Funeral Parlor segment where Jake trapped Taker's hand in the coffin and DDT'd Paul Bearer. Jake was such an awesome heel back then with his "Trust Me' act, and Taker was such a cool set up anyway, that I took to Taker pretty quickly as a babyface. The match was pretty ordinary until the finishing segment which I thought was pretty sweet. Back in the day, nobody, and I mean NOBODY got up from Jake's DDT. Undertaker sat up after one, and then ANOTHER! It was one of the early indicators of how unstoppable a force Taker was. Taker won after Tombstoning Jake on the floor (another cool visual) and win number 2 was in his grasp. It was a Plan B match, but still enjoyable all the same. 

*Vs. Giant Gonzalez at Wrestlemania IX*

Honestly, I feel like this match gets way more hate than it deserves. Was Gonzalez terrible? Yes. But to me, this match being labeled one of the very worst in Mania's history is largely undeserved. I didn't even think the match was that bad. Heck, it wasn't even long enough to be boring. There were some cool visuals like Taker being tossed around like a rag doll and the stare down. I also really liked the ending where Gonzalez knocked out Taker who had to be stretchered out. The fans boo Gonzalez, but then the Gong sounds and Taker storms back down to the ring and takes down the Giant with a few leaping lariats. I thought it was pretty cool! You'll never hear me say this is one of Taker's best Mania performances, but I definitely feel he's had much worse. 

*Vs. King Kong Bundy at Wrestlemania XI*

Not a good match. Bundy was a good big man, but these two just didn't mesh well. Hell to be honest, this Mania was completely terrible anyway, so there you go. I don't really have much else to say about this one besides how weak the finish was. Taker couldn't Tombstone Bundy, so he ended up beating him with a clothesline. Yeah....weak. 

*Vs. "Big Daddy Cool" Diesel at Wrestlemania XII*

This was Taker's best Mania match up to this point. Before he had worked with guys that were past their primes (Jake, Snuka, Bundy) or big man characters that were fed to him (Bundy & Gonzalez). Here though, he was facing a guy that was still somewhat fresh after a year long title run and a big heel turn, so this had a perfect semi main event feel to it. Nash was never known as a great worker, but I felt like this was one of his better matches in the WWF. It was just a good ol' fashioned smashmouth big man affair with Taker getting his fifth Mania win. I think this one gets overlooked a bit, but like I said, its the best one up to this point in Taker's Mania resume. 

*Vs. Psycho Sid in a No Disqualifications Match for the WWF World Heavyweight CHampionship at Wrestlemania 13*

Taker's first Mania World Title Match and Main Event did NOT go well. I don't blame either guy for this. This was just booked to be a disaster. It was obvious that whatever plan they had for Wrestlemania's main event this year was not going to happen and this was a last minute solution with no build up. Did Taker win the Rumble? No. Did Sid have a long run as champion leading into this show? No. Did Sid & Taker have any kind of animosity based storyline between each other? Honestly, I don't even remember them interacting in promos leading up to the show. So that lack of build up translated in what had to be one of the most lifeless Mania main events ever. The effort was there. I mean you had two 7ft guys flying off the top rope, but nobody cared, and who can blame them? The ONE attraction this match had going for it was "Well, at least I get to see Taker win the belt". Well they even messed that up by having a freshly turned heel Bret Hart help Taker win the title by screwing over Sid. So yeah, thanks for taining that whoever booked this. This is one of the worst Mania main events ever and its just a shame that Taker is tied to it. Oh well, he would make up for it in future World title matches. 

*Vs. Kane at Wrestlemania XIV*

We go from one of Taker's worst to my personal favorite. I'm dead serious. Out of Taker's 19 Wrestlemania matches, THIS is my favorite to date. A large part of that is due to the storyline which was executed perfectly. The personal rivalry between two brothers that had been brewing since Kane's first appearance in October 97 was just insane. And they did a brilliant job of building animosity while also keeping them apart until Mania. Its the kind of handling you barely see anymore. We get to Mania and we have a determined and sympathetic babyface in Taker unwillingly facing his own flesh and blood in the form of a seemingly unbeatable wrecking machine. Great booking. And the match itself is awesome because Taker was just outmatched and overpowered. It was shocking to see Kane just dominate Taker the way he did as we were used to seeing Taker be the dominate one. JR had a great call in that match: "I've never seen one, two, or a group of people manhandle The Undertaker as we are seeing right now". They did a great job of convincing me that Kane was going to win, and to watch him kick out of Two Tombstones, almost a third, it really made Kane look like a monster. I also have to say that this was Kane at his best as they captured the Jason Voorhees act perfectly. He didn't sell. All you could do was push him back and he would just keep coming, and the presentation was just flawless. Undertaker's greatest challenge turned into one of my favorite Mania matches. 

*Vs. The Big Bossman: Hell in a Cell Match at Wrestlemania XV*

Well we go from my favorite Taker Wrestlemania Match to the one I feel is the absolute worse. Wow, this one is bad. By this point, Hell in a Cell had become an early legendary gimmick following the first two PPV contests. This was the combo breaker as this match was a piece of shit. Horribly boring & easily the worst Hell in a Cell match in history as well. The only cool thing about this match was after it was over when Taker hung Bossman from the cell which was a great visual. Other than that though, this was an utter trainwreck and I would probably even go as far to say its the worst match of Taker's career period. Now like the Sid match where Taker bounced back with good World Title matches, Taker has a chance at Wrestlemania XXVIII to undo his bad HIAC Mania mark and do something special with Triple H. Speaking of which...

*Vs. Triple H at Wrestlemania X-Seven*

When I first saw this match, I never dreamed that it would become a Mania trilogy, but then again, I never dreamed either guy would still be wrestling in 2012, so what do I know? Anyways, this was one of the last great pairings that the Attitude Era could offer but we never really got on any kind of big stage, so it was cool to see. I thought for a one month build, they actually did a very good job of capturing a lot of intensity and hatred in the feud to make it a worthwhile Mania match. Come match time and these two beat the living hell out of each other! It was a wild & crazy affair with one of the best brawls through the crowd I've ever seen, including Taker chokeslamming Trips off a media tower, which was a great visual since it looked like HHH just disappeared from sight. The only real knock I have on this match is the ref bump which left the referee unconscious for like 10 minutes with nobody checking on him. Other than that though, it was a very fun match with sledgehammers and big finishers to add to the excitement. It was also the first time The Undertaker was featured at Wrestlemania as the American Bad Ass, and this was by far the best of his ABA Mania bouts. Point of interest, this was also the first time that I recall them making any kind of point of Taker being undefeated at Wrestlemania which actually made me think Triple H was going to win. 

*Vs. "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair in a Streetfight at Wrestlemania X-8*

The cool part of this match was the visual of Taker holding up 10 fingers to signal him being 10-0 at Wrestlemania. The match itself was overshadoed by the Hogan/Rock encounter like everything else on this card, but it was definitely the second best thing on the show. It wasn't perfect, but Flair & Taker had a fun & violent context that even involved an appearance from Arn Anderson. Also check it out for probably the best Superplex I've ever seen. Overall a good 10th Win for Taker. Although I have to ask: Why was JR calling Taker Booger Red and constantly repeating it to try and get that over? Did they really think that would get over? 

*Vs. A-Train & The Big Show at Wrestlemania XIX*

This one was underwhelming. I don't know of any other way to describe it. It wasn't terrible or even bad, but it was so unimportant. And the intended goal of getting Nathan Jones over was made moot when it was deemed that he was so terrible that they pulled him from the match the night of the show. And even with a 2 on 1 situation, there was no way on Earth Taker was going to lose this one. It almost felt like Taker was being used as filler here, which I guess is understandable given how many main events were on this show to begin with. 

*Vs. Kane at Wrestlemania XX*

The era of the American Bad Ass was over and it was time for Taker to go back to his roots. Unfortunately, this match pales in comparison to its Wrestlemania XIV counterpart in every way. Kane was unmasked and on a major down slide by this point. He wasn't the dominant killer we knew in 98. And the match was nowhere near as good either and just felt like a squash match for Taker to showcase him as the Dead Man again. The entrance was fantastic and that was the best part of the whole thing and it was even better to have Paul Bearer back. The match though....meh. I was disappointed that Taker still looked like The American Bad Ass. It felt like he was half assing The Dead Man thing at first, and that was disappointing. His outfits in later years were much better. The XIV match lived up to a great build up. This one did a great job of building anticipating for Taker's return (go back and watch some of the stuff they did. It was pretty cool) but except for the entrance, it didn't quite live up to it. 

I would also like to say that I hope to God this is the LAST time we see Taker Vs. Kane at Mania since I am sick to death of watching them wrestle each other. 

*Vs. Randy Orton at Wrestlemania 21*

This one is heavily underrated. This feud might have saved Randy Orton's career as he was just coming off a stupid face turn and being thrown through the Triple H buzz saw. But the return of The Legend Killer led to a jumpstart in Orton's career and a great rivalry heading into Wrestlemania. I've said it before, but this was the last time I truly felt like the Streak was in jeopardy. Taker was facing a young up & coming talent that had potential for long time main event stay and ending the steak would have been the perfect win to give him. It just seemed like it was going to happen. When Orton countered that Chokeslam into the RKO, I honestly thought the streak was dead. It was an awesome moment in an often overlooked match that was part of an overall great rivalry, probably the best of Orton's career. But Taker gets lucky number 13 as we chug along. 

*Vs. Mark Henry in a Casket Match at Wrestlemania 22*

Its kind of surprising that a Casket Match didn't happen at Wrestlemania before this one. Its just too bad Taker got stuck working with Henry. Seriously, this match was like watching Taker have a match with a Giant Pillow. All Henry had to do was be in place for Taker's big spots and that was it. There were some great visuals like Taker's over the top dive over the Casket onto Henry and a couple others. It wasn't an overall exciting match though. If I had to rank it among Taker's Mania bouts, it'd be listed among the average ones. 

*Vs. Batista for the World Heavyweight Championship at Wrestlemania 23*

Taker's World Title Wrestlemania redemption is at hand. This was the biggest match that the Smackdown brand had to offer for Wrestlemania, and it worked out very well. A dominant long term monster champion going up against the dominant legend with a Royal Rumble victory and an unbeaten streak at Wrestlemania. Unfortunately, the feud itself wasn't that great since they never fully turned Batista heel, which made it kind of weak sauce. But the match itself delivered big time in one of Taker's best Mania matches up to this point. It was a great big man power match that culminated in a proper Undertaker World Title win. I've heard people say this match should have closed Wrestlemania, and that's probably correct since this seemed to be the match that most people cared about. 

*Vs. Edge for the World Heavyweight Championship at Wrestlemania XXIV*

Getting on my booking high horse here, I really wish that Edge hadn't lost MITB at Wrestlemania 23, or been in another match that he had won. Prior to that, Edge had been unbeaten at Wrestlemania at 5-0 which was way more than anyone else had up to that point. If WWE had the foresight to keep that going, Edge would have headed into this Mania 6-0 and they could have sold this match as "Undefeated Vs. Undefeated" the Title hanging in the balance. Also, I felt like the way they had set up this match and the way they booked the shows leading in to it, Taker winning was about as obvious as it gets. 

BUT, the match itself was pretty good. It wasn't as good as the highly emotional Flair Vs. HBK match from earlier in the show, but it was a worthwhile Wrestlemania main event. These two would have even better matches with each other later in the year, but Wrestlemania was a good first entry into their series and it was nice for Taker to get a good Wrestlemania closer as well. 

*Vs. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania XXV*

The set up for this match seemed to be....we want these two to wrestle at Wrestlemania. There wasn't much of a set up outside that. The end result though was an outstanding match with nearfalls that actually shocked me, namely Michaels kicking out of the Tombstone. It was two of the very best that the WWE has ever offered going all out in a contest that pushed them both to the limits and it was one for the ages. There isn't a whole lot to say other than that. This is a match that gets all its praise entirely for the in ring product, which was top notch. 

*Vs. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels: Streak Vs. Career at Wrestlemania XXVI*

I don't think the in ring product is as good as the XXV match mainly because its easier to shock us the first time around. As an example, when Taker hit the Tombstone at XXV and Michaels kicked out, I almost shit my pants. When it happened at XXVI, I expected it because it had happened the year before. However, what this match has over the XXV match is a much better set up & build. Shawn's desire to end the streak led to him putting his career on the line in desperation. It raised the stakes and came from established history & a story rather than just "Hey, lets fight". It was a brilliant call on WWE's part to have them close the show as the emotional response to Shawn's retirement was the perfect way to close Wrestlemania. And I'm not knocking the in ring work either, which was once again a great effort from both guys. If this is truly the last match of Shawn's great career, then it was a hell of a match and a hell of a moment to close. 

*Vs. Triple H: No Holds Barred Match at Wrestlemania XXVII*

Phew! Finally got through this. The 19th Undertaker Wrestlemania match and the set up for the 20th. I actually liked the build up for this one. Again, it played off what happened at XXVI by Triple H trying to avenge his friend. The match itself was definitely the best part of this Wrestlemania. I've heard the phrase "one of the greatest matches ever" thrown around, but I wouldn't go that far. I felt like it got a tad silly towards the end with all the kickouts. I mean after kicking out of two Pedigrees, a Tombstone, and got knows what else, how can anybody believe that the streak is ever going to end? But the match itself was overall very good and very brutal. There were a lot of tough shots and bad falls in this one and it did a great job of setting up Taker's year long departure. Not an all time favorite, but definitely a very good match and a worthy Wrestlemania entry for Taker's streak. 

Ranking the Streak!

*AWFUL*

19) Vs. Bossman: HIAC at XV

*Bad*

18) Vs. Bundy at XI
17) Vs. Sid at 13

*Average*

16) Vs. A-Train & Big Show at XIX
15) Vs. Snuka at VII
14) Vs. Henry Casket Match at 22
13) Vs. Gonzalez at IX
12) Vs. Kane at XX 

*Good*

11) Vs. Roberts at VIII
10) Vs. Flair Streetfight at X-8
9) Vs. Diesel at XII

*Very Good*

8) Vs. Edge for World Title at XXIV
7) Vs. Orton at 21
6) Vs. HHH at X-Seven
5) Vs. HHH No Holds Barred at XXVII
4) Vs. Batista: World Title at 23

*AWESOME*

2-3) (TIE) Vs. Shawn Michaels at XXV & XXVI
1) Vs. Kane at XIV


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Found this article today of the 28 best matches in WM history. I agree with maybe half of the matches but the order is just terrible. I was thinking of making my own list down the road closer to WM.
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ycn-11045590


Bret vs Vince :lmao

If that list was labelled "biggest" and not "greatest" he'd have a case.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*WWE - Royal Rumble 2007*

Rumble Match
***3/4


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Best match of Arn Anderson?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I could see a Cena/Edge rivalry DVD down the road like the Bret/HBK one.


Own it. I may or may not have punched the air in victory after seeing it in the shop :side:

This one's just matches obviously, I'm not sure what the point would be on an entire documentary on it though, because Bret and Shawn obviously had a deep rooted personal rivalry as well and it resulted in one of the most iconic moments in history. I don't think there'd be 2 1/2 hour's worth of stuff to talk about with them.

Anyway, stuff:

Shawn's documentary seems to be pretty much a rehash of his book, so I wouldn't particularly recommend it to people who have already read it. Angle vs Michaels at Vengeance was also... ehh. I didn't particularly understand what they were trying to do, so couldn't really get into it that much.

edit: by the way Triple G, according to the WWE he didn't lose because he was taken out of the MiTB so it didn't count, or something. I believe he did go into the match saying he was undefeated.

and also, I know you guys aren't so big on promos but what are the best promos of Christian?


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Rey Mysterio - Life of a Masked Man*

*Disc One*
Rey Misterio Jr. & Konnan vs. La Parka & Psicosis - ***3/4
*2 out of 3 Falls:* Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera - **
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chavo Guerreo Jr. - *1/4
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Rey Mysterio Jr., Super Calo & Hector Garza vs. Psychosis, La Parka & Silver King - **1/2
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Eddie Guerrero & Juventud Guerrera - ****
Rey Mysterio & Edge vs. Eddie & Chavo Guerrero - ***1/2
Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman vs. The World’s Greatest Tag Team - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle - ***
Eddie Guerrero & Booker T. vs. Rey Mysterio & Rob Van Dam - ***1/4

*Disc Two*
Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***
Rey Mysterio & Batista vs. MNM - ***3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton - ***1/2
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero - **
Rey Mysterio vs. Finlay - **
Rey Mysterio vs. Kane - ***
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho - ****
Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison - ****

*Disc Three*
Rey Mysterio vs. Batista - ***3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Shawn Michaels - ***1/2
The Undertaker vs. Rey Mysterio - **1/2
Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler - **
Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk - ***
Jack Swagger vs. Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk vs. The Big Show - ***
Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio - ***3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes - ***

Whilst it's not a bad set but it's not a great one either. Some really enjoyable matches are on it but there are also some matches that seem like they were just thrown on for the sake of it. Worth a buy if it's on sale but I wouldn't pay full price for it. Glad I bought it on sale.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> Own it. I may or may not have punched the air in victory after seeing it in the shop :side:
> 
> This one's just matches obviously, I'm not sure what the point would be on an entire documentary on it though, because Bret and Shawn obviously had a deep rooted personal rivalry as well and it resulted in one of the most iconic moments in history. I don't think there'd be 2 1/2 hour's worth of stuff to talk about with them.
> 
> ...


Christian had some pretty solid promos in ECW with the likes of Regal, Swagger, etc. The stuff with Orton over the summer was really good too. Having trouble remembering his stuff pre-return but I think the Jericho/Christian promos from '04 were good.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

RevolverSnake said:


> Best match of Arn Anderson?


Best match of Honky Tonk Man?

Anyway, I was watching Wrestlemania 22 today (no real reason why, just a random Wrestlemania I haven't seen in a long time) and it reminded me how awesome Shawn Michaels vs Vince McMahon really was. Vince gets the hell beat out of him and it's fun as hell to watch. Jim Ross is also on point with his commentary and his line of "Shane just got his ass buried into his daddy's crack" is absolutely hilarious. If I had to slap a star rating onto it like Chico and Meltzer, I'd probably go ***1/2 since it is so damn fun to watch.

HHH/Cena is pretty great as well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched two shows last night with a friend.

Wrestlemania XIX

Matt Hardy vs Rey Mysterio - **1/2
Taker vs Albert & Big Show - **1/2
Trish vs Jazz vs Victoria - **
Los Guerreros vs WGTT vs Benoit/Rhyno - ***1/4
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Triple H vs Booker T - ***1/2
Hulk Hogan vs Mr McMahon - ***
Steve Austin vs The Rock - ****1/2
Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar - ****1/4

Unforgiven 2006

Jeff Hardy vs Johnny Nitro - ***1/2
Umaga vs Kane - ***
Spirit Squad vs Highlanders - **1/2
Vince, Shane & Big Show vs DX - ***3/4 (I'll explain this in a moment)
Trish Stratus vs Lita - ***
Randy Orton vs Carlito - ***1/4
John Cena vs Edge - ****1/4

Love both shows. And as for the HIAC, other than the lame kiss my ass stuff, this match is BRUTAL. I didn't remember it being such an awesome bloodbath and I've never seen an ear get worked over in a match. Just absolute carnage.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On last watch, I had that HIAC at **3/4. Maybe I should give it another watch, since it's been a few years.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm getting through HBK's Heartbreak and Triumph set at the moment but one of the discs freezes at a certain point. Does anyone have a link to the Rockers vs Sommers/Rose match from AWA in 1987?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Brye said:


> Wrestlemania XIX
> 
> Matt Hardy vs Rey Mysterio - **1/2
> Taker vs Albert & Big Show - **1/2
> ...


Probably going to watch Wrestlemania XIX tonight. Not the whole show, but the matches that matter, which are basically the final five matches on the card. Haven't seen any of those matches in a couple of years so it should be fun to re-watch them.

I was tempted to rewatch all the Wrestlemania's starting today, but then I realized that I have no desire to watch the first sixteen or so in full. I can't be alone in having this feeling?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obis said:


> On last watch, I had that HIAC at **3/4. Maybe I should give it another watch, since it's been a few years.


This was my first time watching it in ages and I liked it alot more than I did before. There are a couple questionable spots but I thought it had some really brutual moments.



GOON said:


> Probably going to watch Wrestlemania XIX tonight. Not the whole show, but the matches that matter, which are basically the final five matches on the card. Haven't seen any of those matches in a couple of years so it should be fun to re-watch them.
> 
> I was tempted to rewatch all the Wrestlemania's starting today, but then I realized that I have no desire to watch the first sixteen or so in full. I can't be alone in having this feeling?


I agree. I like 14 because it was the first wrestling show I ever watched and there are certainly regular matches I enjoy from the older ones but not the full shows. I started off with XIX because I own 19-27 on DVD and I'm trying to get through all of them by 28.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I find 3 and 4 really fun to watch front to back


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The Trump Plaza Wrestlemania's are truly awful (with the exception of Hogan/Savage at Wrestlemania V). III is fine but I don't enjoy Savage/Steamboat as much as others and outside of that, there is really nothing that stands out outside of Hogan/Andre, which is only really good for historical purposes. 

Starting with Wrestlemania 17, all of the Mania's are at least watchable if nothing else. I don't think we've had a truly "bad" Wrestlemania since 16. Even 25 and 27 were better than most of the the crap that was put out from Wrestlemania 1 through 13.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

GOON said:


> Probably going to watch Wrestlemania XIX tonight. Not the whole show, but the matches that matter, which are basically the final five matches on the card. Haven't seen any of those matches in a couple of years so it should be fun to re-watch them.
> 
> I was tempted to rewatch all the Wrestlemania's starting today, but then I realized that I have no desire to watch the first sixteen or so in full. I can't be alone in having this feeling?


I feel the exact same way. Maybe it's because I wasn't watching at the time, but I have no desire to get any of those Manias on DVD, but I have all of them from 17 (even the godawful 27).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

GOON said:


> The Trump Plaza Wrestlemania's are truly awful (with the exception of Hogan/Savage at Wrestlemania V). III is fine but I don't enjoy Savage/Steamboat as much as others and outside of that, there is really nothing that stands out outside of Hogan/Andre, which is only really good for historical purposes.
> 
> Starting with Wrestlemania 17, all of the Mania's are at least watchable if nothing else. I don't think we've had a truly "bad" Wrestlemania since 16. Even 25 and 27 were better than most of the the crap that was put out from Wrestlemania 1 through 13.


The last few posts prove what I say about pro wrestling on a consistent basis. It's for the most part opinion based and boils down to what entertains you. I have a really hard time finding a great WM top to bottom since WM 20. I think 25 was good but wish Edge had retained the title. There are some good/great/epic matches from 21-28 but WM 3-8 are all really good to great IMHO. The characters and the depth in the rosters they had from like 1987-1993 and in the attitude era is way better than they have had at any point the last 6-7 years. It's not even close. Two different brands was a good idea at first but the last few years outside of 2011 WWE has been pretty watered down. I think 2011 might have been the best year for WWE since 2004. 

I think WM 11 was just God awful, outside of the iron man match same can be said for 12, I think 23 outside of the title matches was boring...I think Benoit/MVP had the makings to steal the show if they got more than 9 minutes. I think 24-26 were solid. Last years outside of 2-3 matches was boring. Edge/ADR should have got more time....Cole/Lawler got WAY too much time....Rhodes/Rey and Punk/Orton were ok...but the mainevent was fucking terrible. Taker/HHH should have closed the show. 

Thats odd you don't enjoy any of the first 12 Manias. I'm curious how old you are? Not ripping you just making conversation. My guess is late teen/early 20's.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Thats odd you don't enjoy any of the first 12 Manias. I'm curious how old you are? Not ripping you just making conversation. My guess is late teen/early 20's.


Your estimation is correct regarding my age. My problem with the first twelve Manias is that they're not good top to bottom shows. Hell, every Wrestlemania up to VII are pretty awful outside of the main event. It's probably because I wasn't watching at the time (much less alive) but I have no desire to watch random mid-carders battle it out for no real reason. I prefer the Wrestlemanias from 17 to now because they flow better and every match has a reason to it. Again, it's probably because I wasn't alive at the time to watch but the mid-card matches from Wrestlemania 1-7 seem to just be on the card just to fill up space. Wrestlemania 8 is a pretty darn good show, as is 10 but outside of those Manias, I really don't enjoy a Mania pre 17. 14 is fine as well, I guess.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

GOON said:


> Your estimation is correct regarding my age. My problem with the first twelve Manias is that they're not good top to bottom shows. Hell, every Wrestlemania up to VII are pretty awful outside of the main event. It's probably because I wasn't watching at the time (much less alive) but I have no desire to watch random mid-carders battle it out for no real reason. I prefer the Wrestlemanias from 17 to now because they flow better and every match has a reason to it. Again, it's probably because I wasn't alive at the time to watch but the mid-card matches from Wrestlemania 1-7 seem to just be on the card just to fill up space. Wrestlemania 8 is a pretty darn good show, as is 10 but outside of those Manias, I really don't enjoy a Mania pre 17. 14 is fine as well, I guess.


Fair enough. Sounds like Im about 10 years older than you so we grew up in different eras which probably has a lot to do with our likes and dislikes being different. 

As far as mid card matches back in the day Vince gave so much TV time to Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Bret Hart, etc that a lot of great characters were wasted. Guys like Piper, DiBiase, Perfect, Rude, Jake Roberts, Davey Boy Smith, even Ricky Steamboat didn't get the runs they deserved to get. Thats just my 2 cents though. 

WM 17 might be the best WM card ever top to bottom as far as booking. Rock/Austin was awesome, Benoit V Angle was awesome, Eddie G V Test was awesome, E&C V Dudleys V Hardys was awesome, Shane V Vince was good, the battle royal was fun, Jericho V Regal was good and I might be alone here but I thought Taker V HHH was good. 

My only real problem with WM14 is Rock V Shamrock should have got more time. They could of had a classic 15 minute IC title match but didnt for some reason. Taker V Kane was badass. Foley & Funk V NAO was a lot of fun to watch and Austin V HBK was great and may have been one of the best titles matches of all time had HBK not been hurt as they were both in their prime. It was still a 4 star match IMHO. Overall a great Mania. 

Agreed 8 and 10 are great. The best roster the WWE ever had was in 1992 IMHO. The ending to 10 is perfect when all the faces are in the ring. Rewatch that and look how pissed Luger is. So awesome but I was a huge Luger hater.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> The last few posts prove what I say about pro wrestling on a consistent basis. *It's for the most part opinion based* and boils down to what entertains you. I have a really hard time finding a great WM top to bottom since WM 20. I think 25 was good but wish Edge had retained the title. There are some good/great/epic matches from 21-28 but WM 3-8 are all really good to great IMHO. The characters and the depth in the rosters they had from like 1987-1993 and in the attitude era is way better than they have had at any point the last 6-7 years. It's not even close. Two different brands was a good idea at first but the last few years outside of 2011 WWE has been pretty watered down. I think 2011 might have been the best year for WWE since 2004.
> 
> I think WM 11 was just God awful, outside of the iron man match same can be said for 12, I think 23 outside of the title matches was boring...I think Benoit/MVP had the makings to steal the show if they got more than 9 minutes. I think 24-26 were solid. Last years outside of 2-3 matches was boring. Edge/ADR should have got more time....Cole/Lawler got WAY too much time....Rhodes/Rey and Punk/Orton were ok...but the mainevent was fucking terrible. Taker/HHH should have closed the show.


As with most things. That's what I like about wrestling actually, hearing things from people reminds you how shockingly similar, and how shockingly different we all are.

Taker/HHH didn't close the show because it would have made no booking sense to have the Rock/Cena finish before the streak match, I think. Cole/Lawler should have had a minute tops I agree, but them's the breaks. I didn't have a problem with Edge and Del Rio opening because the opening match is seen as the second most important on the card, but it definitely should have had more time. That being said it's an all time favourite of mine, and by that I mean top ten contesting for top five. Really love that match.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

GOON said:


> Probably going to watch Wrestlemania XIX tonight. Not the whole show, but the matches that matter, which are basically the final five matches on the card. Haven't seen any of those matches in a couple of years so it should be fun to re-watch them.
> 
> I was tempted to rewatch all the Wrestlemania's starting today, but then I realized that I have no desire to watch the first sixteen or so in full. I can't be alone in having this feeling?


Neither do I. I've never watched a WM before 14 which was the first one I ever saw. I've only watched a few select matches such as Taker vs Sid which was a beyond terrible decision in retrospect and Austin vs Bret which was great. It's hard for me to really care for or get into the match without knowing the build up and why they're feuding.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh yeah Edge/ADR could was a good one for sure. I just wish it had been 15-20 mins. Heading into Mania last year it was the match I was looking forward to the most outside Taker/Trips.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

RevolverSnake said:


> Best match of Arn Anderson?


The best match he was ever involved in was probably WarGames 92. Singles, to me, is the 1/4/92 Dustin Rhodes match. 5/2/92 v Big Josh and 6/6/92 Barry Windham are stupidly close seconds (and I couldn't call either one third because they're about as great as each other).


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Wrestlemania 27 was fine. Edge/ADR, Cody/Mysterio, and Orton/Punk were all good, while HHH/Taker was pretty darn awesome in its own right. Granted Miz/Cena was complete dirt and Lawler/Cole went ten minutes too long, but outside of that, it was a fine show.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

GOON said:


> Your estimation is correct regarding my age. My problem with the first twelve Manias is that they're not good top to bottom shows. Hell, every Wrestlemania up to VII are pretty awful outside of the main event. It's probably because I wasn't watching at the time (much less alive) *but I have no desire to watch random mid-carders battle it out for no real reason*. I prefer the Wrestlemanias from 17 to now because they flow better and *every match has a reason to it.* Again, it's probably because I wasn't alive at the time to watch but the mid-card matches from Wrestlemania 1-7 *seem to just be on the card just to fill up space*. Wrestlemania 8 is a pretty darn good show, as is 10 but outside of those Manias, I really don't enjoy a Mania pre 17. 14 is fine as well, I guess.


I get what you're saying and you're entitled to have this opinion and all but seriously? Those 3 things I bolded there sum up WWE perfectly these past few years and not just with Mania but with practically all of their PPV's as of late. Outside of the WWE title match (which sometimes isn't even the case), most of the matches involve random mid-carders battling for no reason, none of the matches have a reason behind them and most of them are just on the card to fill up spaces lol. Starting from Mania 27 at the very very least . I'll give you from Mania X7 up until about 23/24/25. Around there is when WWE very obviously stopped caring about...well...everything really. I guess I just found your statement a bit curious, that's all. Of all the things to say about modern day WWE, those 3 things most certainly don't spring to mind. Quite the opposite in fact.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> I get what you're saying and you're entitled to have this opinion and all but seriously? Those 3 things I bolded there sum up WWE perfectly these past few years and not just with Mania but with practically all of their PPV's as of late. Outside of the WWE title match (which sometimes isn't even the case), most of the matches involve random mid-carders battling for no reason, none of the matches have a reason behind them and most of them are just on the card to fill up spaces lol. Starting from Mania 27 at the very very least . I'll give you from Mania X7 up until about 23/24/25. Around there is when WWE very obviously stopped caring about...well...everything really. I guess I just found your statement a bit curious, that's all. Of all the things to say about modern day WWE, those 3 things most certainly don't spring to mind. Quite the opposite in fact.


I mean, most matches on earlier Wrestlemanias seemed like exhibitions between two mid-carders outside of the main events. Again, this is probably because I wasn't alive at the time but those matches on the earlier Wrestlemanias seemed to have no build up at all. They were just thrown together to give the fans something to watch until you got to Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Andre, or whoever was involved in the main event matches that year. At least the mid-card matches now a days have a reason to happen, regardless of what that reason is. I agree that the build up is awful for some matches but at least they have a reason to be having a match. They aren't just throwing matches like Kofi Kingston vs Drew McIntyre or Ted Dibiase vs Primo onto the card just to give us something to watch until we get to the matches involving Cena, Rock, Orton, Punk, Jericho, etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> The best match he was ever involved in was probably WarGames 92. Singles, to me, is the 1/4/92 Dustin Rhodes match. 5/2/92 v Big Josh and 6/6/92 Barry Windham are stupidly close seconds (and I couldn't call either one third because they're about as great as each other).


I'd have his match with Flair second. His best singles match imo, but that wargames match is definitely his number one overall.

As for the WM talk, I don't think its fair to say the older ones didn't exactly have build up or were done for no reason or anything. You just kinda had to be watching at the time because they weren't really big on video packages to hype the feuds and matches for anything other than main events . So just watching the actual event doesn't give you an idea of what the hell was going on half the time .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

GOON said:


> I mean, most matches on earlier Wrestlemanias seemed like exhibitions between two mid-carders outside of the main events. Again, this is probably because I wasn't alive at the time but those matches on the earlier Wrestlemanias seemed to have no build up at all. They were just thrown together to give the fans something to watch until you got to Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Andre, or whoever was involved in the main event matches that year. At least the mid-card matches now a days have a reason to happen, regardless of what that reason is. I agree that the build up is awful for some matches but at least they have a reason to be having a match. They aren't just throwing matches like Kofi Kingston vs Drew McIntyre or Ted Dibiase vs Primo onto the card just to give us something to watch until we get to the matches involving Cena, Rock, Orton, Punk, Jericho, etc.


I wasn't alive either and outside of the big matches everybody talks about, I haven't seen a lot of stuff from a lot of Manias pre 14/15. I don't know. I don't think enough matches have a reason to happen anymore. I mean, it actually looks like we're set to get Orton/Kane. Why? Because Kane randomly attacked him on SD this week. Seems to be all they're capable of these days unfortunately. Everything, I'd go so far as to say even the WHC match, on this years card is complete filler outside Rock/Cena, HHH/Taker and to a lesser extent Jericho/Punk. They don't even fucking try anymore. I guess I just don't see the difference between random mid carder A vs. random mid carder B in 2012 and 15 years ago.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

They're not doing a bad job with Bryan/Sheamus, imo. Obviously it's not the caliber of the other 3 but still.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

At least they won't be bumped off of the card again.


----------



## SharpshooterSmith (May 7, 2011)

Got a quick question for you guys. I just picked up The Epic Journey of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson on Blu-ray. Absolutely loved the documentary. May watch it again later. Anyway, I started digging into the matches and noticed that I'm missing a match on Disc 1. On the inside of the case, it lists Triple H vs. The Rock from May of 1998, but it's not on the menu on my disc. Has anybody else had this problem or know why this is? Could just be a misprint.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Had the same problem. I don't know what happened there.

I just picked up the recent Rock DVD today and only watched the documentary, but it's really good and detailed when talking about his time in WWE, his movie career, and I liked how they sort of hyped up the Rock/Cena match at Wrestlemania towards the end. Haven't watch the matches yet, but so far I like the match listings even though I was sort of disappointed with the Austin/Rock Wrestlemania XIX match not being on the list. Just want to know what you guys thought of it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I might be the only one who is not that pumped for Rock/Cena, I mean I like Rock and will be rooting for him to beat Cena but Im not as excited for this match as most are...Im way more excited for Punk/Jericho and Taker/HHH HiaC....Punk/Jericho could steal the damn show, that could be a classic...I want Bryan to retain V Sheamus but I bet Sheamus wins....on paper this Mania is looking really good...agreed though during Orton/Kane I will take a piss break, who gives a shit?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not gonna lie: if Cena v Rock gets cancelled...I almost won't give a shit. I really don't like those two enough to care about it. Hell, the whole Mania card so far isn't *that* up my alley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock Vs Cena does nothing for me either. I don't like either guy, and the feud has been absolutely utterly dogshit. Its been the EXACT same stuff for an entire year. Wah wah wah Rock is never here. Blah blah blah lady parts.


----------



## PsychoPriest (Jun 28, 2007)

Might find this interesting


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

If Orton/Kane gets a stipulation added to it, it might end up being pretty decent. IIRC, they had a solid match on Smackdown last year. Think it was the match where the announce table buried Orton.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*WWE - Royal Rumble 2008*

Rumble Match
***3/4-****


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I have to agree with you guys here. Rock/Cena has been the same old story for the whole year. I do want to see the match though because the Rock is wrestling and it will be electric, but their "feud" has been very ordinarily executed.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

They've turned Rock/Cena from generation vs. generation, icon vs. icon and all that jazz into John vs. Dwayne: Personal Vendetta. So far I think I'd prefer the former over what we've got currently. There are still 3 Raw's left so I'll wait and see. The match will no doubt be electric but this feud could be SO much better. SO much better.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Why the hell did they put Miz on the Austin doc? Comes off so fake on it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guessing because he was supposedly a fan back in the day, and they like to hear thoughts from "top" stars on documentaries, and Miz was getting pushed hard for a while and was still being featured heavily when the doc was getting made.

Agreed he came across kinda fake though. But tbh he ALWAYS does to me. One of the reasons I don't like him or think much to his promos and shit. The way he says everything annoys the crap out of me and doesn't seem sincere at all, regardless of what he's actually saying.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

GOON said:


> If Orton/Kane gets a stipulation added to it, it might end up being pretty decent. IIRC, they had a solid match on Smackdown last year. Think it was the match where the announce table buried Orton.


Maybe a falls count anywhere match or a last man standing match. Agreed thats really the only way it will be decent. I'm just kind of over Kane TBH.


----------



## crazy_furry (Sep 8, 2011)

*WWE DVDS*

What are the best wwe dvds to buy other than shawn and bret greatest rivals dvd??


----------



## dazzy666 (Sep 21, 2006)

*Re: WWE DVDS*

rise and fall of ecw


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

*Re: WWE DVDS*

anthology of royal rumble(1988-2007), rise and fall of ecw, wrestlemania x-7, Steve Austin Biograpahy of the most popular superstar ever (thats what its called).


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Clash of the Champions DVD/Blu-ray

DISC 1

The Real Story

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Sting
Clash of the Champions – 27th March, 1988

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Lex Luger & Barry Windham
Clash of the Champions – 27th March, 1988

Why Wait a Whole Year?

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Sting & Dusty Rhodes
Clash of the Champions II – 8th June, 1988

Russian Chain Match
Ricky Morton vs. Ivan Koloff
Clash of the Champions III – 7th September, 1988

“I Quit” Match for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk
Clash of the Champions IX – 15th November, 1989

Mil Mascaras vs. Cactus Jack Manson
Clash of the Champions X – 6th February, 1990

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Midnight Express vs. Rock & Roll Express
Clash of the Champions XI – 13th June, 1990

DISC 2

To Be The Man, You Gotta Beat The Man

NWA United States Championship Match
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger
Clash of the Champions XII – 5th September, 1990

The Young Pistols & Z-Man vs. The Fabulous Freebirds
Clash of the Champions XV – 12th June, 1991

15-Man Battle Royal
Clash of the Champions XVI – 5th September, 1991

WCW United States Championship Match
Sting vs. ‘Ravishing’ Rick Rude
Clash of the Champions XVII – 19th November, 1991

Other Stars On The Rise

2 out of 3 Falls Match
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs. The Hollywood Blonds
Clash of the Champions XXIII – 17th June, 1993

Brian Pillman vs. “Stunning” Steve Austin
Clash of the Champions XXV – 10th November, 1993

WCW Television Title Match
Lord Steven Regal vs. Dustin Rhodes
Clash of the Champions XXVI – 27th January, 1994

Elimination Tag Team Match
Sting & ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. ‘Ravishing’ Rick Rude & Vader
Clash of the Champions XXVI – 27th January, 1994

DISC 3

Here we are Again

Championship Unification Match
Sting vs. ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair
Clash of the Champions XXVII – 23rd June, 1994

WCW United States Championship Match
“Stunning” Steve Austin vs. Ricky ‘The Dragon’ Steamboat
Clash of the Champions XXVIII – 24th August, 1994

Hulk Hogan & ‘Macho Man’ Randy Savage vs. ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair & The Giant
Clash of the Champions XXXII – 23rd January, 1996

Medusa vs. Bull Nakano
Clash of the Champions XXXIII – 15th August, 1996

Match for the BattleBowl Ring
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Eddie Guerrero
Clash of the Champions XXXIII – 15th August, 1996

I’m gonna watch this

WCW World Tag Team Championship Triple Threat Match
Harlem Heat vs. The Steiner Brothers vs. Sting & Lex Luger
Clash of the Champions XXXIII – 15th August, 1996

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Ultimo Dragon vs. Dean Malenko
Clash of the Champions XXXIV – 21st January, 1997

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero
Clash of the Champions XXXV – 21st August, 1997

Diamond Dallas Page & Lex Luger vs. Scott Hall & ‘Macho Man’ Randy Savage
Clash of the Champions XXXV – 21st August, 1997

35th and Final Clash

BLU-RAY EXTRAS

‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair and Barry Windham vs. Midnight Express
Clash of the Champions IV – 7th December, 1988

Sting and Ricky ‘The Dragon’ Steamboat vs. ‘Ravishing’ Rick Rude and Steve Austin
Clash of the Champions XVIII – 21st January, 1992

Thunder Cage Match
Dustin Rhodes & Sting vs. Big Van Vader, Paul Orndorff and Barry Windham
Clash of the Champions XXII – 13th January, 1993

SILVER VISION & ONE US STORE DVD EXTRAS

NWA United States Tag Team Championship Match
The Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics
Clash of the Champions – March 27, 1988

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Hollywood Hogan vs. Ric Flair
Clash of the Champions XXXIII – August 15, 1996


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Clash of the Champions DVD/Blu-ray
> 
> DISC 1
> 
> ...


Wow. They did a pretty good job with this. Yes yes there are some repeats but you can't release a CotC set without Flair/Sting from the 1st CotC or the I Quit match with Funk. Two of my fav matches of all time. Excited to see Mascaras V Foley, Midnight Express V Rock & Roll Express, Sting V Rude!!!, Jericho V Eddie G, etc. 

I wish there was more Sting singles matches but all in all good lineup and I wont complain.  I will buy this for sure. NOW can we get a Best of In Your House?????


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I'm extremely disappointed with the clash set. So much potential, and as usual they fecking waste it. No Vader Vs Dustin? No Regal Vs Zbyszko? At least these made it on:

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Lex Luger & Barry Windham
Clash of the Champions – 27th March, 1988

Elimination Tag Team Match
Sting & ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. ‘Ravishing’ Rick Rude & Vader
Clash of the Champions XXVI – 27th January, 1994


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> No Vader Vs Dustin? No Regal Vs Zbyszko?


You probably have these matches on other dvds right?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh of course, but I'd quite like DVD/Bluray quality for them .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Im really looking to build my PPV collection. Anyone want to help me out and burn some WWF PPVs for me? I will pay you of course.  I'm looking for PPVs from 92-2002. Maybe a few before that as well. If any of you collect WWF LJNs I have a bunch of those I can trade as well. Let me know on here or PM me. Maybe we can work something out.


----------



## FoxSteiner (May 8, 2011)

*Re: WWE DVDS*

*OMG, there are too many...But u can simply download them as well, DvD's are quite expensive (at least where I'm at), new ones cost mostly around 35-39 Euros...My favourites are:
- Raw 15th Anniversary
- Smackdown 10th Anniversary
- Rise&Fall of WCW
- The Ladder Match
- SCSA Bottomline*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Some oddball choices on the Clash set for sure, but overall it looks solid. Disc 3 looks poor and for them to put 3 matches from the same Clash they better be damn good. Sucks there's not more from '92 though. I'll probably buy the blu ray. Loads of good lookin tag matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

About to watch Great American Bash '07. Hoping I can stay awake until the Lashley/Cena match.


----------



## Klee (Oct 28, 2011)

I bought the Macho man DVD the other day, some classic matches which were awesome. No filler though, would have liked to hear some wrestlers opinions on savage. Oh well!!!


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Somewhat disappointing list. Since I don't own either Ric Flair collection, it might be worth it to me to get the Flair/Sting matches from '88 and '94, in addition to the "I Quit" match and the match with Luger.

However, the one glaring omission to me is the match from August 1994 between Flair and Hulk Hogan. It was the first rematch from Bash at the Beach '94, their second televised match together, and the middle of the initial Flair/Hogan that included BATB and Halloween Havoc '94. 

This was a great opportunity to finally get this one released, and since it's not there, for me I'm probably not going to pick this up.

(And yes, I'm a huge Hogan mark that whether or not a Hogan match is included dictates whether or not a buy a DVD/Blu-ray. Hell, one of the major reasons I bought the Best of King of the Ring was for Hogan/Angle, which was at a PPV too terrible to own.)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clash listing pretty much blows. Doubt I would've bought it anyway, but they missed out on some really excellent stuff in favour of lesser matches.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*ECW - The Most Extreme Matches*

*Disc One*
Cactus Jack & Mikey Whipwreck vs. The Public Enemy - **1/2
The Sandman & Terry Funk vs. Cactus Jack & Shane Douglas - ***
Ian Rotten vs. Axl Rotten - **
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis - ***3/4
Shane Douglas vs. Chris Jericho vs. 2 Cold Scorpio vs. Pitbull #2 - ****1/2
Tommy Dreamer vs. Brian Lee - **
Rob Van Dam vs. Sabu - **1/2
Terry Funk vs. The Sandman vs. Stevie Richards - ***

*Disc Two*
Sabu vs. Terry Funk - ****1/4
Beulah McGillicutty vs. Bill Alfonso - ** - (***** for the blood and effort, kind of.)
Tazz vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - ***
Tazz vs. Shane Douglas - ****
The Dudley Boyz vs. Spike Dudley & Balls Mahoney - ****
Mike Awesome vs. Spike Dudley - ***
Rhino vs. The Sandman - **
Super Crazy vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri vs. Little Guido - ***1/2
Tommy Dreamer vs. C.W. Anderson - ***1/4
Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka - ****


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

For those not happy with the Clash set what is missing that you wanted to see? Just curious.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> For those not happy with the Clash set what is missing that you wanted to see? Just curious.


These


Steamboat vs. Funk Clash 7
Flair/Sting vs. Muta/Slater Clash 8
Luger vs. Pillman Clash 9
Steiners vs. Hase/Chono Clash 15
Gordy/Williams vs. Steiners Clash 19
Sting vs. Rude Clash 21
Steamboat/Douglas vs. Windham/Dustin Clash 21
Steamboat/Douglas vs. Austin/Pillman Clash 22
Rude/Vader/Sid vs. Sting/Dustin/Bulldog Clash 23
Nasty Boys vs. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne Clash 26
Vader vs. Dustin Clash 29


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Clique said:


> These
> 
> 
> *Steamboat vs. Funk Clash 7
> ...


I believe these were on the wish list I made a few weeks ago. They could of had a 4 DVD set for sure. Funk needs his own DVD set!


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

sorry but does anybody know what match it was during the old ecw there was sandman returning and one guy with a championship I think was sitting in the ring, that was a pretty cool moment but I can't find it on youtube.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Hulk Hogan's Unreleased Collector's Series*

*Disc One*
Hulk Hogan vs. Harry Valdez - 1/4*
Bob Backlund vs. Hulk Hogan - ***1/2
Hulk Hogan vs. Steve King & Angelo Gomez - 1/2*
Andre the Giant vs. Hulk Hogan - *
Hulk Hogan vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan - **
Hulk Hogan vs. Randy “Macho Man” Savage - ***1/2
Hulk Hogan & Junk Yard Dog vs. Big John Studd & King Kong Bundy - **
Hulk Hogan vs. Kamala - DUD
Hulk Hogan vs. Killer Khan - *

*Disc Two*
Hulk Hogan vs. One Man Gang - *1/4
Hulk Hogan vs. Rick Rude - ***
Hulk Hogan & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. “Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase & Virgil - ***
Hulk Hogan vs. King Haku - *
Hulk Hogan vs. Big Boss Man - *1/2
Hulk Hogan vs. Randy “Macho Man” Savage - ****
Hulk Hogan vs. Earthquake - 3/4*
Hulk Hogan vs. Sgt. Slaughter - ***
Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair - ***

*Disc Three*
Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage vs. Vader & Ric Flair - ***
Hulk Hogan vs. Vader - **
Hulk Hogan vs. Sting - **1/4
Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant - *
Bret Hart vs. Hollywood Hulk Hogan - **1/2
Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair - *
Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Triple H - *1/2
Hollywood Hulk Hogan & Edge vs. Billy & Chuck - *1/2
Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Kurt Angle - **1/2

Good lord, I don't think I'll watch this again in a hurry. The only aspect of the DVD that is good is that you wont really find the matches on other official sets out there but man, the majority of matches sucked and the ones that were good, Hogan more or less got carried by who he was facing. I'm not a Hogan hater but I wouldn't recommend this set to anyone.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Brye said:


> About to watch Great American Bash '07. Hoping I can stay awake until the Lashley/Cena match.


It's shocking how good that match it. I think I gave it somewhere between ***1/4-***1/2 which is hands down the best Lashley match that I've ever seen, which is rather impressive. 

The show as a whole is pretty solid actually. There aren't any great matches but there were a ton of good ones from what I can remember.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Let's rank superstar's Wrestlemania Matches! 

Batista

vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania 23 ****
vs. John Cena at Wrestlemania 26 ***3/4
with Randy Orton and Ric Flair vs. The Rock and Sock Connection at Wrestlemania 20 ***1/2
vs. Triple H at Wrestlemania 21 ***
vs. Umaga at Wrestlemania 24 **3/4

Batista missed out on a couple of Wrestlemania paydays due to injuries, but he still has a decent track record at the biggest show of the year. I'd like to see you guys rank other stars, past or present, Wrestlemania performances.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> It's shocking how good that match it. I think I gave it somewhere between ***1/4-***1/2 which is hands down the best Lashley match that I've ever seen, which is rather impressive.
> 
> The show as a whole is pretty solid actually. There aren't any great matches but there were a ton of good ones from what I can remember.


Forgot about one of my favorite matches of '07 in Hardy/Umaga. And I really liked Cena/Lashley. Show actually kept me entertained even though some of the matches were less than stellar.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

pjc33 said:


> Let's rank superstar's Wrestlemania Matches!
> 
> Batista
> 
> ...


My Batista WM Rankings:

vs Undertaker WM 23: **** 1/4
vs John Cena WM 26: ****
vs Triple H WM 21: *** 1/2
Handicap Tag WM XX: *** 1/2
vs Umaga WM 23: **

Batista has a pretty good track record outside of his match with Umaga IMO. Nothing spectacular of course, but he has had great matches. Honestly though, when looking at the workers he was placed with (Taker, HHH, Rock, Foley, Cena), it's hard to attribute the success to him alone.

Some people have a vendetta against the WM 21 main event. I think it is pretty good, and personally I don't get the criticism. WM 21 is also one of my favorite shows ever so, there's my opinion.


----------



## FearIs4UP (Apr 8, 2007)

Trying to watch old PPV's from 2000-2002. Where's the best place to do that?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Would you guys recommend 

The Best of SmackDown 2009-2010 Blu-ray
Best PPV Matches 2011 Blu-ray


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Am i the only one who enjoys HBK/Cena more than Taker/Batista from WM 23? I have HBK/Cena at ****1/2 Taker/Batista ****


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I always found Taker/Batista (WM) overrated. It was a good match. In fact, it was great, but not MOTYC or something like that. It was entertaining to watch with all that bomb moves and all, but it was just that - moves. 

HBK/Cena, on the other hand, was a legit MOTYC.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

FearIs4UP said:


> Trying to watch old PPV's from 2000-2002. Where's the best place to do that?


Royal Rumble 2000 was great


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FearIs4UP said:


> Trying to watch old PPV's from 2000-2002. Where's the best place to do that?


At the very beginning with Royal Rumble 2000. Really fun ppv.



Arnold Tricky said:


> Would you guys recommend
> 
> The Best of SmackDown 2009-2010 Blu-ray
> Best PPV Matches 2011 Blu-ray


There aren't exactly any blowaway extras on the blu ray, so if you're crunched for money you should probably just stick to the dvd.



RATED-RKO1991 said:


> Am i the only one who enjoys HBK/Cena more than Taker/Batista from WM 23? I have HBK/Cena at ****1/2 Taker/Batista ****


Nope, actually several people an here agree. I'll go ***3/4 for Taker/Batista, rather overrated in many cases. ****1/2 all day on HBK/Cena.



JoeRulz said:


> I always found Taker/Batista (WM) overrated. It was a good match. In fact, it was great, but not MOTYC or something like that. It was entertaining to watch with all that bomb moves and all, but it was just that - moves.
> 
> HBK/Cena, on the other hand, was a legit MOTYC.


100% agree.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I have yet to join the blu ray nation but I do really enjoy the best of 2011 PPV matches DVD. Very entertaining and the Punk/Cena match alone is worth it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

****1/2 on HBK/Cena and **** for Batista/Taker for me. Both wonderful matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

JoeRulz said:


> I always found Taker/Batista (WM) overrated. It was a good match. In fact, it was great, but not MOTYC or something like that. It was entertaining to watch with all that bomb moves and all, but it was just that - moves.
> 
> HBK/Cena, on the other hand, was a legit MOTYC.


I feel the exact opposite, especially on a very recent watch of both matches. HBK/Cena, while still a great match wasn't quite as good as I remembered it being, and I think it gets more praise than it deserves because HBK was involved (and lets be honest, when HBK/McMahon WM gets ****+ ratings from a lot of people like I've seen, you know it's taken to an extreme at times). The match just got really boring at times and I don't think the action was anywhere near as interesting as Taker/Batista. It's still a great match in my eyes no doubt, but I can't agree with the praise it gets as anything remotely a MOTYC (so I guess I'll have to agree to disagree ) 

Taker/Batista was 15 minutes of non-stop, hard-hitting action that felt like a real sprint to see who could beat whom. The two delivered a classic and MOTY on that night in my opinion. 

Taker/Batista- ****1/2
HBK/Cena- ***3/4 (used to be ****1/4)

I still need to give their hour long match a re-watch (which, since it's close to an hour probably won't be happening anytime soon), but I had that at ****1/2, and that match I feel really rivals Taker/Batista. Cena/Umaga falls into the same category. Those three matches are the elite matches of 2007 imo. Also the fatal four-way from Backlash is up there.

Edit: Batista's best WM matches:

Batista

vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania 23 ****1/2
vs. John Cena at Wrestlemania 26 ***3/4
with Randy Orton and Ric Flair vs. The Rock and Sock Connection at Wrestlemania 20 ***1/4
vs. Triple H at Wrestlemania 21 **1/2
vs. Umaga at Wrestlemania 24 **

and I'll do a few more (whether they've been done in the thread yet or not):

Cena:

1) vs. HBK WM23- ***3/4
2) vs. Batista WM26- ***3/4
3) vs. Orton and HHH WM24- ***1/2
4) vs. HHH WM22- ***1/4
5) vs. Edge and Big Show WM25- ***1/4

HBK:

1) vs. Undertaker WM25- *****
2) vs. Jericho WM19- ****3/4
3) vs. Razor Ramon WM10- ****3/4
4) vs. Undertaker WM26- ****1/2
5) vs. Benoit vs. HHH WM20- ****1/2

(Despite what I said earlier about HBK matches getting more praise than they deserve generally, this guy is no doubt Mr. Wrestlemania and has some of the best matches of all time at Wrestlemania. It just feels like people have every HBK match at WM as a classic, which I can't agree with it at all, though his only bad match I have him with is his match against Vince).

Undertaker:

1) vs. HBK WM25- *****
2) vs. HBK WM26- ****1/2
3) vs. Batista WM23- ****1/2
4) vs. Orton WM21- ****1/4
5) vs. Edge WM24- ****1/4

HHH:

1) vs. HBK vs. Benoit WM20- ****1/2
2) vs. Undertaker WM17- ****
3) vs. Orton vs. Cena WM24- ***1/2
4) vs. Undertaker WM27- ***1/2
5) vs. Booker T WM19- ***1/2 (actually a really good match that most don't remember)

Rock:

1) vs. Austin WM17- *****
2) vs. Austin WM19- ****1/2
3) vs. Austin WM15- ***3/4
4) vs. Hogan WM18- ***1/2
5) vs. Foley vs. Big Show vs. HHH WM16- ***1/4

Austin:

1) vs. Bret Hart WM13- *****
2) vs. Rock WM17- *****
3) vs. Rock WM19- ****1/2
4) vs. HBK WM14- ****
5) vs. Rock WM15- ***3/4

Jericho WM Matches:

1) vs. Michaels WM19- ****3/4
2) MITB 1 WM21- ****1/4
3) vs. Edge WM26- ****
4) vs. Christian WM20- ****
5) MITB 4 WM24- ****

Edit: Also, if I add up the star ratings, this is where each guy ranks:

1) HBK: 23.5
2) Taker: 22.5
3) Austin: 22.25
4) Jericho: 21
5) Rock: 20
6) HHH: 19
7) Cena: 17.5
8) Batista: 16


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

To add to your list

Savage

vs. Steamboat WM3 - **** 3/4
vs. Warrior WM7 - **** 1/2
vs. Flair WM8 - **** 1/2
vs. Hogan WM5 - *** 3/4
vs. DiBiase WM4 - *** 1/4


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Ric Flair & The Four Horsemen*

*Disc Two*
Arn Anderson, Ole Anderson, & Ric Flair vs. Pez Whatley, Italian Stallion, & Rocky King - **1/2
*Steel Cage Match:* Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton - ****
*First Blood Match:* Tully Blanchard vs. Dusty Rhodes *
*War Games Match:* The Four Horsemen vs. Dusty Rhodes, Dr. Death, Lex Luger, Nikita Koloff, & Paul Ellering - ***3/4
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Sting & Nikita Koloff - ***
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Barry Windham & Lex Luger - ***1/4
Arn Anderson vs. Ric Flair - ***3/4

Whilst not the greatest selection of matches, this 2 Disc set is worth it alone for the incredible documentary. Think I've watched the documentary a good six or seven times, it's that good. Set is only £6 on SilverVision too, if you don't have this set, get it. Also, Arn Anderson DVD please


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Michaels is probably number 1 at Mania just behind Taker. If I had to sit there and watch a wrestlers top 5 mania matches in a row I'd probably go with Austin, he entertains the shit out of me, love his mania matches. I'll throw another wrestler in for good measure:

Jericho

1. vs Mixhaels (WM XIX) - ****1/2
2. MITB - ****1/2
3. vs Edge (WM 26) - ***3/4
4. vs Christian (WM 21) - ***1/2
5. vs Benoit vs Angle (WM 2000) - ***1/4

Hes never really been consistently at the top, till now-ish. I think his match with Punk given time could hit a low 4* range.
5.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Clique said:


> To add to your list
> 
> Savage
> 
> ...


I agree with the 5 matches but I'd flip the Warrior & Flair matches, give Savage/Hogan 4 stars and also give Savage/Steamboat 5 stars but thats just how I roll. 

I read that Vince wanted Savage/DiBiase to be much longer (like 25 mins) but they were short on time which is why it was 10. Those two in a 25 minute winner take all match for the winged eagle may have ended up one of the best title matches ever. I saw them meet at a house show a few weeks later. I remember it pretty well even though I was young. It was a great 20 min match. Their match at Wrestlefest later that summer was great and they had a good cage match as well. Great chemistry with Randy and Ted.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Word said:


> Michaels is probably number 1 at Mania just behind Taker. If I had to sit there and watch a wrestlers top 5 mania matches in a row I'd probably go with Austin, he entertains the shit out of me, love his mania matches. I'll throw another wrestler in for good measure:
> 
> Jericho
> 
> ...


I have almost the same matches as you...

Jericho WM Matches:

1) vs. Michaels WM19- ****3/4
2) MITB 1 WM21- ****1/4
3) vs. Edge WM26- ****
4) vs. Christian WM20- ****
5) MITB 4 WM24- ****


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jericho V Edge at WM 28 was awesome.

I really think Punk and Jericho could have an amazing show stealing show. Hope they get a good chunk of time. Like 20 mins.


----------



## The Fifth McMahon (Mar 8, 2012)

Punk/Jericho will probably end in a rollup of some kind I believe. My guess is, Jericho will go for another Walls of Jericho and get small packaged. I just don't see Punk pinning Jericho with a elbow drop or GTS and certainly not by submission.


----------



## Ruth (Apr 18, 2010)

Intercontinental Champion = An american
United States Champion = A canadian/italian

I don't know, this just seems to bother me for some reason...


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Jericho V Edge at WM 28 was awesome.


er...


----------



## geraldinhio (Feb 5, 2010)

Obis said:


> I have almost the same matches as you...
> 
> Jericho WM Matches:
> 
> ...


_I really have to rewatch the WM 19 match. I recall loving it and have it somewhere on DVD. Excellent match , some great wrestling , character dynamics ,a hot crowd and probably Jericho's best match in WWE. _


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> er...


Yeah didnt you hear? They are wrestling at WM28. 

Meant 26. My bad playas.


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

Obis...I'm surprised you gave Jericho\Edge such a high rating. You basically believe that it's a very good and boarderline great match? Most people thought it didn't reach expectations and even went as far as saying it was a total letdown. I still have not actually seen the match because I was never motivated to do so with all the negative reviews I've heard.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

wwedvdnews said:


> WWE: Falls Count Anywhere Matches.
> 
> Easy one to figure out, a compilation title of matches over the years in which pinfalls could happen anywhere! Most likely covering a history of the match, not limited to WWE.
> 
> ...


This set better have Undertaker vs. Matt Hardy on it........


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Don't remember many FCA matches I really liked. I'm being forgetful, I bet.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Let's see FCA matches:

Sting/Cactus Jack Beach Blash 92
Cactus Jack/Orndorff SuperBrawl III
Savage/DDP GAB 97
Cactus Jack/Hunter Raw 97
Foley/Funk Raw 98
Taker/Matt Hardy SD 02
Mysterio/Chavo No Mercy 06
Melina/Mickie Raw 07
Jeff Hardy/Umaga ONS 08
DX/Legacy Breaking Point 09
Morrison/Sheamus Raw 10
Miz/Morrison Raw 11
Mysterio/Rhodes Extreme Rules 11
Orton/Barrett SD 11

Edit - Too bad we can't get any of Benoit's matches with Sullivan, Raven & DPP.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

^ I like that list. Wouldn't mind Bryan/Miz/Morrison on it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

JBL_Wrestling_God said:


> Obis...I'm surprised you gave Jericho\Edge such a high rating. You basically believe that it's a very good and boarderline great match? Most people thought it didn't reach expectations and even went as far as saying it was a total letdown. I still have not actually seen the match because I was never motivated to do so with all the negative reviews I've heard.


It was a great match. It was the feud that was a letdown... which it was. The match though was WM quality, and second best match on the show as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't a classic or anything, but you should check the match out. That's not really a high rating for Edge/Jericho. Most people have it in that ballpark that I've seen (***3/4-****).


----------



## The Fifth McMahon (Mar 8, 2012)

I liked Jericho/Edge at WM 26, but I did expect a much better match that it was.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Clique said:


> Let's see FCA matches:
> 
> Sting/Cactus Jack Beach Blash 92
> Cactus Jack/Orndorff SuperBrawl III
> ...


Would love to see that, but I would also include Bryan vs Morrison vs Miz from 2010 and the Punk vs Del Rio vs Mysterio #1 contenders match from last year.

I also think we'll see some hardcore matches as well that featured out-of-the-ring action (Triple Threat from Wrestlemania X7 please!), much like how the ladder match dvd also included TLC matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can see them putting lots of hardcore title stuff on that DVD.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Edge/Jericho was one boring match. It's okay for Raw main events, but as one of the major matches at WrestleMania 26, it was just poor.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought Edge/Jericho was pretty great. Around ***1/2-***3/4. Totally blew me away considering my low opinion of Edge and the utter shit feud they were involved in at the time that was nothing more than Edge screaming the word "Spear" a billion times and Jericho telling us how he was never injured (guess he forgot the time he broke his arm during training right before probably one of his biggest matches ever at the time back in SMW... ). Jericho was great in getting the crowd back too who were pretty fucking dead for the first half.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Sting/Cactus Jack Beach Blash 92
> Cactus Jack/Orndorff SuperBrawl III
> Savage/DDP GAB 97
> Cactus Jack/Hunter Raw 97
> Foley/Funk Raw 98


That + Benoit v Sullivan. I guess I was being forgetful .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Savage V DDP at GAB in 97 is my all time fav FCA match. It is already on the Savage set though. It was not a great match by any means but Im hoping the Savage/Crush FCA from WM10 is on it since it's the only Savage WWF ppv match I don't have on DVD.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Kane-UK said:


> I also think we'll see some hardcore matches as well that featured out-of-the-ring action (Triple Threat from Wrestlemania X7 please!), much like how the ladder match dvd also included TLC matches.


I was thinking they would put those on there too. Maybe some of Crash Holly's Hardcore 24/7 stuff.

Maybe they will add Rock/Mankind Empty Arena Match too. Foley is really is a master of these falls count anywhere matches. They could even add his matches against The Nasty Boys when he teamed with Maxx Payne and/or Kevin Sullivan.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Razor King said:


> Edge/Jericho was one boring match. It's okay for Raw main events, but as one of the major matches at WrestleMania 26, it was just poor.


I actually really liked it and I got it at ****1/4. I remember really liking how they centered the match around the spear and how they played off of Edge's injury that he had just came back from at the time. I just thought it was a fantastic match throughout.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I was there live for Edge/Jericho. It was pretty shitty. Suffered from the same thing as Edge/Taker imo in that the first half was just so crap that it ended up sucking the life out of the whole thing, despite the fact that things picked up towards the end. Boring and the crowd weren't into it all. Cena/Batista was MUCH better for me and of course HBK/Taker blew them both away lol. Forgetful and underwhelming feud heading in too.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Yeah didnt you hear? They are wrestling at WM28.
> 
> Meant 26. My bad playas.


Oh. Wasn't too high on that match, it didn't really "click" with me.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Opinions of No Way Out '08 ?

For me there was nothing bad but it all felt very average. Some matches seemed to end just as they were getting good (likely due to the stacked card) and whilst the Elimnation Chambers had good spots it was kinda dull at times (especially the SD chamber with Khali and Big Daddy V's involvement). Not bad by any means and a decent but not great way to spend 3 hours. Worth buying if cheap (I got for £5 so decent price).


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Opinions of No Way Out '08 ?
> 
> For me there was nothing bad but it all felt very average. Some matches seemed to end just as they were getting good (likely due to the stacked card) and whilst the Elimnation Chambers had good spots it was kinda dull at times (especially the SD chamber with Khali and Big Daddy V's involvement). Not bad by any means and a decent but not great way to spend 3 hours. Worth buying if cheap (I got for £5 so decent price).


I loved the Raw Elimination Chamber match. The rest was all solid. Like you said, it's not a bad show, but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Raw chamber in '08 is my favorite chamber of all time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NWO 08 has Orton/Cena, which makes it an awesome show.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

KingCal said:


> NWO 08 has Orton/Cena, which makes it an awesome show.


That was okay. It's not their worst match. That honor goes to their match at the '07 Unforgiven.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have it as their best match ever. Worlds above anything else they did together. Breaking Point is the closest but even that had some shitty parts (the finish, for example...). Their NWO match is one of my all time fav matches ever too.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Their Breaking Point match is my favorite match between them. Yea, the finish kinda bothers me, but the rest was just so awesome. Orton's performance in this match is unforgettable. I think I might need to give their NWO match another watch as it's been about 4 years since I last watched it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton's performance in the NWO is incredible too. Loved the storytelling in the match, which is why I like it so much. All stemming from Orton saying he was going to PIN Cena... then throughout the match he realises he CAN'T pin Cena, so his strategy for winning keeps evolving until the awesome finish.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I absolutely hate their match from Breaking Point. Couldn't get into it all.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Got into one of my late 1999/2000 WCW moods again. Don't ask me why, but I often myself feeling the need to watch late '99/2000 WCW. I think what really draws me in is the star power, which I'm a sucker for, but I always forget that most of these matches are just plain horrible.

Started with Road Wild 1999. Obviously, not a great show.. The only real highlights are:

-Solid six-man opener, featuring The Filthy Animals against Vampiro and ICP. ICP did well for non wrestlers. Guerrero, Mysterio, and Vampiro is always a good combination.

-Harlem Heat against Kanyon & Bam Bam Bigelow. Good tag action, as you would expect.

-The Revolution vs. The West Texas ********. Again. As you would expect, a lot of talent here, so the result is decent.

-Chris Benoit vs. DDP also a solid match.

And of course, the main events, with all the big names, are awful.

-Sting/Sid is just...meh.

-Goldberg/Steiner was solid for the time it got, but it ended out of nowhere.

-Savage/Rodman is actually not bad. With a good buildup, better booking, and not AFTER Rodman's notoriety, this could have been a really huge match. The result is still solid.

-Hogan/Nash is awful. I'm a blind Hogan mark, I admit that. I'll watch just about anything with Hogan. But this is right up there with Hogan/Sid at WM8 for worst Hogan big man matches. NOTHING happens. Staredowns, rest holds, test of strenghts, heel beats down on Hogan, miraculous comeback, legdrop, 1,2,3. It boggles my mind that while the WWF was blowing up with Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Mankind, Undertaker, and DX, that Hogan thought this crap still worked.

Now onto Fall Brawl '99...


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

I mark for 98-end WCW too, mainly because I LOVED WCW as a kid when I first started watching wrestling back in 98 when I was 9 yrs old. My dad used to work really late, and would get home around 4 or 5am, and he would watch the re-run of Nitro that came on Tuesday morning with me and my brother before we would go to school. Just good memories that take me back. That is why I will buy anything WCW related that gets put out, Best of Nitro, Rise and Fall, ANYTHING idc. 

With that said, I notice some of you on here have made top 100 lists of WCW matches, I don't get into any of that stuff in depth like that with ranking as I think it's impossible to have be all end all list as ratings with some matches will fluctuate on repeat watch. 

Anyway, without me having to look through all the lists, did any of you guys rank the Benoit/DDP match from SuperBrawl 8? One of my favorite WCW matches with ease, but I am a DDP mark. Still a ****+ match imo, great back and forth, both guys looked great, and it had great pacing with the right amount of time. If anyone hasn't seen this, I highly recommend you do. 

I wish DDP didn't get stuck Kanyon and Bigelow, and involved with the whole Arquette BS. He was really over in 97-98 and had some solid matchups. I would've loved to seen him in longer feuds with other talent than some of the guys he did. He still had some great matches, the Havoc match with Goldberg I have at ****, the SuperBrawl 8 match with Benoit mentioned above at ****, had a good feud with Savage in 97, had a great 3 way dance with Benoit/Raven at Uncensored that I'd give *** 1/2 - ****, followed with a good cage match against Raven at another PPV (can't recall atm), but it's ***+, and a Heavyweight Championship against Sting on Nitro in 99 I believe it was that I'd go *** 3/4 - ****. 

Very capable worker for his age, had a good gimmick and was charasmatic enough to get over and stay over, and worked well heel or face. Having the company ran by a bunch of idiots hurt him in the long run (as it did with mostly everyone not named Nash), but I sure would've loved to see him used better towards his end in WCW, and his whole run in WWF/E. I believe he could've had more ****+ matches had he worked with other capable workers. One of my favorite wrestlers ever.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Oh. Wasn't too high on that match, it didn't really "click" with me.


If this is a joke I don't get it. 

You will however be happy to know I got Decade of Decadence on DVD tonight on ebay. Yay! 

I also picked up Allied Powers and the first Ladder Match DVD. With all of these DVDs I think I have all 3 TLC matches between E&C/Dudleys/Hardys?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Watching the end of "SD" tonight made me try to remember match with Orton & (I think it was Cena) when one handcuffs the other to the turnbuckle... Seems to me this was a part of a feud where the other got revenge in the following match.

Also, watching start of show made me curious which people prefer overall: Cage or HIAC? Personally, think I'd choose latter.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HiaC for sure


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I don't remember Orton/Cena from NWO '08 much. But both the Chambers were pretty solid matches. I don't think they are exceptional, but very good at around the middle three range.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*WWE - Royal Rumble 2009*

Rumble Match
***1/2

Really enjoyed the last 4 and like that they actually went for a story based final 4 rather then just 4 random guys.

*WWE - Royal Rumble 2010*

Rumble Match
***1/4

Punk at the start was good. Went downhill after that.

*WWE - Royal Rumble 2011*

Rumble Match
***1/2


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> If this is a joke I don't get it.
> 
> You will however be happy to know I got Decade of Decadence on DVD tonight on ebay. Yay!
> 
> I also picked up Allied Powers and the first Ladder Match DVD. With all of these DVDs I think I have all 3 TLC matches between E&C/Dudleys/Hardys?


It wasn't, haha. I tend to like Edge's matches obviously, and I can't go into a thousand word review of how they used 'psychology' or any of that technical stuff, but that match just did not do anything for me. *shrugs*

yey Decade of Decadence. You know, it's a shame Edge's promos haven't been put together on any of his DVD sets. DoD has "The Totally Awesome Best of Edge and Christian" (which is amazing, by the way) but that's obviously exclusive to his tag team days. He's had some really great moments promo and backstage segment wise since then, and it's a shame that they're gonna be left to the dust. Or to whatever "best of" DVD they come out with next.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I love the Orton/Cena I Quit from Breaking Point. Finish aside lol, it's a wonderful match up until that point which I'm willing to overlook. Orton was a beast in that thing. One of my favorite performances from him.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

What does everyone think about the '02 Rumble match? Haven't seen it since it happened and remember nothing of it.

Wrestlemania XX:

Cena/Big Show - **3/4
World Tag Title 4-way - **1/2
Christian/Jericho - ****
Evolution vs Rock & Sock - ***1/2
CW Open - **3/4
Goldberg/Lesnar - DUD
WWE Tag Title 4-Way - **
Victoria/Molly - *
Guerrero/Angle - ****
Kane/Taker - **3/4
HHH/HBK/Benoit - *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> What does everyone think about the '02 Rumble match? Haven't seen it since it happened and remember nothing of it.
> 
> Wrestlemania XX:
> 
> ...


RR 02 match is one of my favs. Around ****1/2 for it.

WM XX ratings? Ok 

Cena/Big Show - **
World Tag Title 4-way - **
Christian/Jericho - ****1/2 (I'm one of the biggest fans of this match though)
Evolution vs Rock & Sock - **1/2
CW Open - **1/4
Goldberg/Lesnar - :lmao
WWE Tag Title 4-Way - **1/4 (or maybe the other one was **1/4 and this was **. I forget)
Victoria/Molly - I don't even remember this.
Guerrero/Angle - ***
Kane/Taker - **3/4
HHH/HBK/Benoit - ****3/4

Pretty shitty show outside of 2 matches, and then Undertaker's match just for his entrance, return as the Dead Man, and the "Ooooohhhhh YEEEESSSSS!" that was a massive surprise at the time .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Need to give that a watch. (Y)

I ended watching XX last night and I think I'm gonna watch 21 tonight. The show itself certainly dragged except the Lesnar/Goldberg match is actually so dreadful it's entertaining.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2012*

_Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry vs Big Show Steel Cage Match_

I didn't see this match when I first watched the PPV (just missed it on my stream), and to be honest, I felt like I didn't miss much. I saw **-** 1/2 ratings for this match, and that was about it. So I turned it on, not expecting much, but this actually exceeded my expectations. Sure, it only comes in at 9 minutes, but just like the WM 22 main event, that's all it needs to be a good match.

The story here is simple, how will Bryan (a tweener at this point), survive the two monsters. Show and Henry continue their great chemistry here, while Bryan flies around and does a majority of the selling and work, which is a fantastic thing. They keep the story solid throughout, with Bryan trying to take the easy way out. I LOVE the ending as it was so unexpected and made alot of people say "was that supposed to happen?". I wish it had to be 5-10 minutes longer, as this could have been a borderline **** match, but nonetheless....

***** 

_Bella Twins/Natalya/Beth Phoenix vs Tamina/Eve/Kelly Kelly/Fox_

Completely standard Divas filler tag match here, although it is quite decent by today's standards. Eve does her standard offense, the Bella Twins suck at normal moves such as chinlocks (as usual), Beth looks like a monster heel, but Kelly gets an awesome dive to the outside. Decent, only about five minutes long, just filler really.

****

_John Cena vs Kane_

I wasn't expecting much from this match either, but Cena ALWAYS seems to deliver a decent match on PPV (well, most of the time, depending on the circumstances), and this was no different. The trouble coming into this match was the booking: how could both Cena and Kane come out of the match looking strong (Or atleast not looking weak).

The answer is simple: make the ending a double countout. Yeah that's how the match ended, but before that, this match was your standard messy brawl, with some stiff shots from both men (remarkable, given Cena has to main event mania), but that's what makes this match work. Kane looks like an absolute monster here, while Cena dosen't look weak. This is more about the angle than the match itself, which led to a great blowoff match at Elimination Chamber. All in all though, this match was a good, messy brawl, with a good story and no real direction. Average.

*** 1/2*

_Drew Mcintyre vs Brodus Clay_

What can I say about this ? A squash match, complete with many jiggles and dancing from the Funkasaurus himself. One simple question though: Why does it have to be Drew ? I mean, this guy has a decent amount of talent, am I right ? And he gets fed to Brodus Clay ? REALLY ? I obviously can't rate it because it's a minute long, but it's really just pointless filler.

*NO RATING*

_CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler_

Laurinitis is special referee(on the outside),Here we go. Punk getting huge pops here, while this match starts off more mat based then alot of other Punk matches that I've seen. Fast paced here, as both men exchange sleepers, false finish attempts, and dives. Both Punk and Dolph take some really stiff looking bumps on the ropes here. The psychology is solid, as Ziggler is being the annoying little "show-off", while Punk is just looking for his opening to unload.

These two have some really good chemistry, as this match is moving along quite nicely. Ziggler and Punk both sell like champs here, making each other's punches,kicks, and various other basic moves look lethal. At the climax of the match however, the pace slows down, as it becomes more of a ref bump/storyline based match, with Punk beating Ziggler THREE times with Laurinitis's back turned. Not sure if that was the route to go, as it makes Dolph look INCREDIBLY weak. However, Dolph gets the counter of the night, a GTS into a fame-asser. Great false finish. GTS ends this. If the whole "Laurinitis" story wasn't involved in this match, I'm willing to bet it would have been a classic. Nevertheless, it is still awesome, and shows what can happen if you put two world-class workers in the same ring.

**** 3/4*

_Royal Rumble Match_

Miz starts us off here, a pretty good choice, but does Alex Riley have to start this off too? Really ? Cody Rhodes enters at 4, so now we have our two ironmen of the match, Miz and Rhodes. One of my personal favorites, R-Truth, gets eliminated rather quickly by Miz, a bad move IMO. Here is the problem with this rumble: after Cody Rhodes enters at number 4, the next wrestler that could even be considered to win the rumble, is Dolph Ziggler, who enters at number EIGHTEEN. I'm sorry, but that is a HUGE number of jobbers, mid-carders, and comedy acts, but not enough talent to sustain a Royal Rumble match.

Mid-way we get a painfully unfunny comedy portion of the Rumble featuring Mick Foley and Santino, which goes on WAY too long. I mean, damn, this takes up a good 5-10 minutes of the total rumble. Okay, even I will admit, The Ricardo Rodriguez imitating Alberto Del Rio is PRICELESS, but Foley looks old, slow, and horrible out there. Spot of the rumble goes to Kofi's handstand, while not quite as good as Jo-Mo's spot last year, it is damn impressive. 

All 3 announcers enter the Rumble, which is a unique gimmick. Never cared too much for Lawler or Cole's appearances, but seeing Booker T is always a treat, so is a rare Kharma appearance. The surprise entrants were REALLY lackluster this year. Hacksaw Jim Duggan and Road Dogg ? really ? I understand they got big pops, but is that honestly the best WWE can do ? Was D'lo Brown or Gangrel not available or something ? Sheamus's entry finally gets the rumble to heat up.

By the time Orton makes his entrance, the Rumble finally starts to feel like the Rumble... AT NUMBER 28, took them long enough didn't it ? Jericho then enters, leaving a completely anti-climatic Big Show appearance at number 30. Seriously, that was extremely lackluster. The way Show just throws Miz, Cody, And Ziggler out of the Rumble makes me kind of sick. You have three extremely bright young superstars, and you have them eliminated by BIG SHOW ? Couldn't have given them to Sheamus or someone ? Anyways this is moving along rather quickly now, as the final four are Show, Orton, Jericho, and Sheamus.

Orton and Show are gone faster then you can say "Cornish Hens" as the final two in the rumble are Jericho and Sheamus. What proceeds to happen is one of the most climatic finishes in Rumble history. Seriously, this ending is AWESOME, second only to the 07 ending IMO. Sheamus wins after a hard fought ending. So here's a summary: Too many jobbers and pointless cameos, Cody/Ziggler/Miz were the workhorses, the number 30 spot was lackluster, the comedy portion was terrible, but the last 15 minutes of this are AWESOME. This rumble was GOOD, but not one of the best, not even close. Entertaining enough.

*****

_Thoughts_

The Royal Rumble PPV and the quality of it, boils down to the Rumble match itself. While the Rumble match was a step down from the last few years, it still managed to be a good encounter, mainly due to the ending. Still, with two GREAT championship matches, a messy Cena brawl, and some filler, you can't go WRONG by watching this show. There are a TON of better shows out there, but if you have some time watch this. It's worth a buy if you are a Punk, Ziggler, Bryan, Sheamus, or just a RUMBLE fan in general.

*7/10*


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Brye said:


> Need to give that a watch. (Y)
> 
> I ended watching XX last night and I think I'm gonna watch 21 tonight. The show itself certainly dragged except the Lesnar/Goldberg match is actually so dreadful it's entertaining.


21 is a pretty solid show overall. It's amazing how much it contrasts with 20. 20's flaw is a weak undercard and midcard with the HHH/Benoit/HBK match being the saving grace along with Eddie/Angle albeit to a lesser extent. The card is a bit overloaded too although some of it had to do with it being a 5 hour show. 21 has a great undercard and midcard but I don't think the main event championship matches were any good although obviously they were bound to happen with the direction they were heading in trying to establish Cena and Batista as the stars of RAW and SD, respectively. I wish Lita wasn't injured at the time period because we could've got a classic Divas match instead of a weaksauce in Trish/Christy with Trish carrying the match most of the way. Good thing it was a short bout. Orton/Taker, MITB, Eddie/Rey and Angle/HBK are all great matches though. There's a cool segment with Austin/Piper/Carlito in there as well.


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

WM21 was a great WrestleMania when looking back on it. There was some very high quality matches with HBK\Angle, Eddie\Rey, Orton\Undertaker and the MITB. There was also some entertaining segments with JBL\HHH backstage and Carlito\Austin\Pipper. The main event matches is what keeps a lot of people from calling it a GREAT ppv but I still look at both those main event matches in a positive light due to the impact it had on the business. HHH and JBL played there heel roles perfectly and it's amazing to look back on not only how entertaining those guys were but how dominate as well. I like the fact that they both had there own stables with Evolution and The Cabinet. Both heels were established as two guys who can kick your ass but at the same time will show there true cowardly side when met there match (Cena & Batista). WWE should look back on this PPV and realize that you must book heels very strongly and give them long title reigns such as JBL and HHH if you want to establish babyface stars. 

HHH and JBL were two of the top four greatest heels in the last decade along with Jericho and Edge. That's why I look back on WrestleMania 21 and even with the lack of quality within the main event matches, it still surved its purpose. HHH and JBL had everything to do with John Cena and Batista breaking into the two biggest stars since Austin\Rock and that was because they were able to establish dominate heels. It's pathetic how one dimensional WWE books there heels currently and I really don't understand why they don't use the same logic they used with WrestleMania 21. Creating new babyface stars comes with establishing dominate heels. They would rather go the much lazier route in having Sheamus just squash everybody that falls in his way ultimately taking the title off the exact opposite of what JBL and HHH were. People are not going to be able to actually get behind Sheamus and cheer for him to take the belt off such an unconvincing heel in Daniel Bryan.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Just watched the Orton/Cena I Quit match from Breaking Point 2009 after Orton spent nearly 15 min beating the hell out of John Cena it took Cena all of 3 mins to make Orton quit pretty sad.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Been bored today watched a few matches:

Bryan/Ziggler Bragging Rights - ****
Bourne/Jericho Fatal 4 Way - *** 1/2
HHH/Orton Wrestlemania 25 - *** 1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Triple H(C) vs Randy Orton: Wrestlemania 25_

For the last 3 years, as a HHH mark, all I have heard is how shitty this match was, so I figured FUCK IT and decided to give it a watch. The results were mindblowing. This is NOT a bad wrestling match, as the slow pace works, there are some absolutely sick shots out there, some good counters, and some good false finishes. This match fails in people's eyes for a few reasons.

First of all, the psychology was a little fucked. This should have been a crazy/fast paced brawl ala Rock/Austin WM 17, with TONS of run ins and false finishes. I understand some people's points when they say that. Secondly, HHH going over really pissed alot of people off about this match, but honestly, how does that have anything to do with the match itself ? It DOES'NT. Thirdly, It's the main event of Wrestlemania, and the finish was about as anticlimatic as you can get. I get that idea as well.

But if you take this match out of the context in which it is placed, and view it as a random individual match, this was pretty good. The stiffness towards the end, with HHH taking the backdrop on the table and the DDT on the floor, plus the finishers at the beginning of the match really does it for me. I can understand why some people hate this match, but to say that HHH does'nt put people over is ridiculous. He lost at FOUR straight Wrestlemania's in a row. Swap this match on the card with HBK-Taker or even the Triple Threat match, and this DOUBLES in value. Good match with some awesome moves, with it's flaw being where it takes place, and it's FUCKED psychology.

**** 1/4*


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Jaysin said:


> I mark for 98-end WCW too, mainly because I LOVED WCW as a kid when I first started watching wrestling back in 98 when I was 9 yrs old. My dad used to work really late, and would get home around 4 or 5am, and he would watch the re-run of Nitro that came on Tuesday morning with me and my brother before we would go to school. Just good memories that take me back. That is why I will buy anything WCW related that gets put out, Best of Nitro, Rise and Fall, ANYTHING idc.
> 
> With that said, I notice some of you on here have made top 100 lists of WCW matches, I don't get into any of that stuff in depth like that with ranking as I think it's impossible to have be all end all list as ratings with some matches will fluctuate on repeat watch.
> 
> ...


Any of you who made WCW all time lists, did DDP/Benoit from Superbrawl make the cut? Sorry to quote myself, but I'd like to here others opinion on the match/DDP if they've seen it. If not, you should check it out! You can find it on youtube.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> _Triple H(C) vs Randy Orton: Wrestlemania 25_
> 
> For the last 3 years, as a HHH mark, all I have heard is how shitty this match was, so I figured FUCK IT and decided to give it a watch. The results were mindblowing. This is NOT a bad wrestling match, as the slow pace works, there are some absolutely sick shots out there, some good counters, and some good false finishes. This match fails in people's eyes for a few reasons.
> 
> ...


This exactly! I watched it today for the first time since it was live, and I actually really enjoyed the match. Kayfabe wise it makes a ton of sense for HHH to go over. The match isn't an all time classic or anything, but it's very enjoyable. I don't even think it had to be a no dq, brawl type match, the stipulation makes complete sense in hindsight. For months Orton made Triple Hs life a living hell, disgraced his family, had him backed up into a corner and there was nothing he could do to keep his championship. In essence he out smarted the "cerebral assassin" and he was going to win. I would call this a great match honestly if the finish wasn't so poorly booked and anti-climatic.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jaysin said:


> Any of you who made WCW all time lists, did DDP/Benoit from Superbrawl make the cut? Sorry to quote myself, but I'd like to here others opinion on the match/DDP if they've seen it. If not, you should check it out! You can find it on youtube.


Everyone really liked it including myself. I'm really not sure what a guy could say negatively about that match. First struggles were great, and the near-fall sections had pretty excellent climactic build. They should have a had a big World Title match in mid-99.

I really liked DDP in anything I watched from him. I slept on the guy for a couple of years but I wound going 360 to my original opinion on him being really fucking good on multiple nights instead of having a one-hit wonder match with Savage at GAB.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

Speaking of DDP, boy he was a pain listening to on the latest Legends of Wrestling roundtable on celebrities. His love with Karl Malone was very irritating and you could tell the other guys were not interested. I hope he doesn't come on again. Also the quietest I've heard Michael Hayes speak.

I wished that they get some actual legends on the show like Harley Race or Ricky Steamboat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jaysin said:


> Any of you who made WCW all time lists, did DDP/Benoit from Superbrawl make the cut? Sorry to quote myself, but I'd like to here others opinion on the match/DDP if they've seen it. If not, you should check it out! You can find it on youtube.


That match made it to #68 on the final list . I had it at #49. Really great match, the third highest Benoit match on my list and 4th highest DDP match on my list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

musclehead said:


> Speaking of DDP, boy he was a pain listening to on the latest Legends of Wrestling roundtable on celebrities. His love with Karl Malone was very irritating and you could tell the other guys were not interested. I hope he doesn't come on again. Also the quietest I've heard Michael Hayes speak.
> 
> I wished that they get some actual legends on the show like Harley Race or Ricky Steamboat.


I was going to watch the families one today but decided against it. Last one I watch was "historic moments" or something. Flair was on it and he came off sort of, IDK, jerky, I guess. Foley was seated next to him and whenever they'd be talking to each other it'd feel uncomfortable.

I need a really interesting one to watch that I haven't. 'Heatseekers' is probably my personal favourite one. Or whichever one has Dusty Rhodes trying to pronounce "hurricanrana" as "hoomacarata." Dusty's the best.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> I was going to watch the families one today but decided against it. Last one I watch was "historic moments" or something. Flair was on it and he came off sort of, IDK, jerky, I guess. Foley was seated next to him and whenever they'd be talking to each other it'd feel uncomfortable.
> 
> I need a really interesting one to watch that I haven't. 'Heatseekers' is probably my personal favourite one. Or whichever one has Dusty Rhodes trying to pronounce "hurricanrana" as "hoomacarata." Dusty's the best.


I watched the Significant Moments one with Flair and Foley on it recently. Flair acted like a complete egotistical cunt, and was worse any time Foley tried to actually say something.

I love the LOW Roundtable shows though. Got em all . The NWO one is really good, and its one of the newer ones. NASH~!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll go watch the NWO one now, found it on Youtube. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just ordered myself WM 24 Bluray on Ebay for £5. Since its been recalled/removed from everywhere brand new (more info here http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-wrestlemania-24-dvd-recalled-floyd-mayweather/21890/ ) I decided to get a copy while I still can/its still cheap just in case it becomes somewhat of a rarity . Plus its the first WM to be released on Bluray format (first WWE Bluray too? I dunno), and I love the event. Got the tin edition DVD too already, but HD is bettah!


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Best roundtable I've seen was one in regards to "wrestling tough guys" might have been titled bad asses though. The panel was Hayes, Tazz, Foley and obviously JR - which doesn't really fit the bill for the title as such but they tell some great stories that I'd only vaguely heard of before.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

KingCal said:


> That match made it to #68 on the final list . I had it at #49. Really great match, the third highest Benoit match on my list and 4th highest DDP match on my list.


Cool to see others have seen it, why the jump to 68 from 49? What other DDP matches do you have on the list? I'm curious to see if there are some good DDP matches I haven't seen. What did you think of the Havoc match with Goldberg, and the Nitro match with Sting?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The jump is because MY list was #68, but when I counted up the votes from everyone it placed #49 overall .

Sting/DDP from Nitro 99 just came up, #46 from me, overall #35, and someone voted for it in their top 10!!! Match with Goldberg at HH hasn't come up yet (their Nitro 99 match has though, forget which number it was, cba to look lol). I already know where it is, but the countdown hasn't finished yet so I don't wanna spoil it for anyone .


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Well what did you personally think about the Nitro match with Sting and the Havoc match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nitro match with Sting is awesome. Sting's best match between the years of 96-now. Havoc match against Goldberg is fucking incredible. Page was awesome in it, and hell, Goldberg didn't look like a year old rookie or whatever he actually was at the time. Easily Goldberg's greatest match. Their match in 99 on Nitro with Page as a heel was really good too but the Nash interference and no contest ending (I think... not sure there was an announcement about the finish lol) brought it down slightly, otherwise it might have been just as good as Havoc.

Page is someone I really enjoyed watching for the project. I'd seen bits here and there of his WCW run in the past so I was looking forward to watching more, and I enjoyed pretty much everything I saw him in.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Edge vs Jericho was good but meh maybe we were just expecting too much.

I liked Taker/Edge from Mania 24 and I have it at ****

Cena vs Batista is extremely underrated from WM 26 and even I underrated it at first. As a matter of fact I went to take a piss break when I first saw it 2 years ago.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Continuing my series of late 1999 WCW PPVs, here are some thoughts on that year's Fall Brawl. This is actually probably one of the better entries, given the writing and downturn WCW was in.

-The Filthy Animals vs. The Dead Pool was again a nice opening six-man tag.
-Lenny Lane/Kaz Hayashi was a good cruiserweight match.
-Steiner/Saturn was a dream match of rough motherfuckers.
-Benoit/Sid is easily the best match on the card. A classic david/goliath match, very much like Benoit's matches against Kane. Both men look great in this one.
-Goldberg/DDP isn't as good as their Halloween Havoc match, but it's solid.
-Hogan/Sting never had great chemistry, but it was always special when they did meet. It's cool to see them as face/face, and they do actually try to outwrestle one another. Their best match, to me, was still SuperBrawl VIII, but this was a solid title match.

Again, solid WCW PPV, especially given how much worse things were about to get.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

KingCal said:


> Nitro match with Sting is awesome. Sting's best match between the years of 96-now. Havoc match against Goldberg is fucking incredible. Page was awesome in it, and hell, Goldberg didn't look like a year old rookie or whatever he actually was at the time. Easily Goldberg's greatest match. Their match in 99 on Nitro with Page as a heel was really good too but the Nash interference and no contest ending (I think... not sure there was an announcement about the finish lol) brought it down slightly, otherwise it might have been just as good as Havoc.
> 
> Page is someone I really enjoyed watching for the project. I'd seen bits here and there of his WCW run in the past so I was looking forward to watching more, and I enjoyed pretty much everything I saw him in.


Haven't seen the Nitro match with Goldberg (I probably watched it as a kid when it originally aired because I ALWAYS watched Nitro, but obviously can't remember lol). Good to see some appreciation for Page. I was a huge fan, it's criminal the way he was used (or lack thereof) in the E. Only notable match I recall from his stint in WWE is the Mania 18 match against Christian, fun little match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Chris Jericho vs Triple H Fully Loaded 2000
*


Absolutely loved this match. The match starts off with Jericho unleashing a fury of strikes on Triple H in and out of the ring. Then the tide turns as Triple H starts tot work the injured ribs of Jericho. From there the match is worked at a slow, methodical pace in which The Game just continuously works the ribs of Jericho, hitting big move after big move trying to keep Y2J down for the 10 count. Y2J gets his big comeback moment after hitting Triple H with a low blow then attacking him with a chair. And for the next minutes it's just an all out back and forth war between these two. Fantastic pacing, fantastic sotry telling just an overall exciting match.
*
****1/2*


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

^ That's Hunter's career-best performance.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I'd say it's certainly up there - along with his performances against Eugene and the Taboo Tuesday cage match with Flair.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Chris Jericho vs Triple H Fully Loaded 2000
> *
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed with this one. It was a legit MOTYC, such a brilliant match. Trips at his best.


----------



## Att-Era-Kanefan (Mar 5, 2012)

Can anyone tell me what the Kane dvd's were about? There was one done not too too long ago, maybe was called My name is Kane or His name was Kane or maybe im wrong altogether? But it was a popular DVD and had to do with only the Kane character... Im looking to buy it but not of its stupid.. I was hoping either it had alot of old matches, interviews, Raw/Smackdown/Heat etc appearances... Is it like a documentary about Glenn or more about the history of Kane?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think it's the Sick and Twisted Diatured Mind of Kane or something like that. I've never seen it though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The only Kane DVD I know of is this one http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/The-Twisted-Disturbed-Life-of-Kane-DVD-3-Discs.html and its just a match compilation.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Want to give my thoughts on the Clash of the Champions DVD. Now I am pre-ordering this as it just looks like there is some good wrestling matches on there. It certainly appeals to me more than Rock & Edge sets (not that they don't look good). Strange how they have DVD exclusive content I must say.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Att-Era-Kanefan said:


> Can anyone tell me what the Kane dvd's were about? There was one done not too too long ago, maybe was called My name is Kane or His name was Kane or maybe im wrong altogether? But it was a popular DVD and had to do with only the Kane character... Im looking to buy it but not of its stupid.. I was hoping either it had alot of old matches, interviews, Raw/Smackdown/Heat etc appearances... Is it like a documentary about Glenn or more about the history of Kane?


It's a match compilation which also highlights the history of Kane (up until 2008).

Kane himself provides the links between the matches and there is some really good selections on the disk;

Kane vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 14
Kane vs Xpac - Steel Cage
Kane vs Chris Jericho - Armageddon 2000
Brothers of Destruction vs Dudleyz vs Edge & Christian - No Way Out 2001
Kane vs Triple H - Judgement Day 2001
Kane vs RVD - Steel Cage
the shane McMahon matches
the cage and stretcher matches vs Edge (ah, what a waste their 2010 feud was...)
Kane vs Finlay
Kane vs Undertaker - Smackdown 2008


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Just bought this DVD set at high spots...looks like it has potential...anyone have it or has anyone seen most of these matches?

Disc 1
Jr. Heavyweight Champion Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Dynamite Kid (14:54, 2/5/80) 
Jr. Heavyeight Champion Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid (15:55, 8/5/82) **** 
Jr. Heavyweight Champion Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid for the vacant NWA Junior Heavyweight Title (selected as the second greatest match of the 1980s, 22:40, 4/21/83) ***** 
Dynamite Kid vs. Davey Boy Smith (14:07, 8/1/85) 
Disc 2
Davey Boy Smith & Dynamite Kid vs. Stan Hansen & Genichiro Tenryu (Real World Tag League match, 18:28, 11/17/89) 
Davey Boy Smith, Dynamite Kid & Kenta Kobashi vs. Doug Furnas, Dan Kroffat & Masa Fuchi (20:22, 11/19/89) 
Davey Boy Smith, Dynamite Kid & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Samson Fuyuki & Yoshinari Ogawa (13:48, 12/4/89) 
Davey Boy Smith & Dynamite Kid vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (Real World Tag League match, 11:59, 11/25/89) 
Davey Boy Smith & Dynamite Kid vs. Abdullah the Butcher & Tiger Jeet Singh (Real World Tag League match, 9:25, 11/29/89) 
Disc 3
Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (12/06/89) 
Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith vs. Tiger Mask & Shinichi Nakano (01/20/90) 
Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith vs. Akira Taue & Isao Takagi (01/11/90) 
Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith vs. Tiger Mask & Masa Fuchi (01/03/90) 
Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith vs. Bobby Fulton & Tommy Rogers (01/14/90)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Jr. Heavyweight Champion Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Dynamite Kid (14:54, 2/5/80)


This is pretty excellent and smokes anything else I've ever seen D.Kid in. I really don't think he's even a good wrestler anymore and can name a good 300 wrestlers I'd take over him, but I can't name a negative thing he did in this particular match. Fujinami was about as good as anybody in the world in 1980. 

Only thing else on the set I care enough to remember is the two Tiger Mask matches, which I don't like anymore. I bet I've seen some of those AJ 89 tags but remember squat about them. They have Jumbo, Hansen and Tenryu so they have to be good on some level.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Just watched Unforgiven 06, very entertaining PPV! 2006 was quite a good year for the (B)PPV's in general, but apart from WM 22, I can't help but think the other 3 of the big 4 were pretty big let downs. 
RR 06 - Enjoyed the RR and that was it.
Summerslam 06 - Foley/Flair was brilliant.
Survivor Series 06 - Meh,


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So... Wrestlemania. How's it looking?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ownage™ said:


> So... Wrestlemania. How's it looking?


Taker/HHH HIAC w/ HBK as ref has been excellent every week. Even the weakest segment, last week HBK/HHH, was still a great segment. The build up and segments are the complete opposite from last year. All they need is to produce a classic Cell match, and all in all it will have been an amazing feud from top to bottom.

Rock/Cena has been disappointing... Rock specifically has been very disappointing. However this week on Raw, his concert was great. Cena though has been hitting it out of the park each week, but the whole feud is just "meh". It's stuff that's been said over and over again for a year now. I'm looking forward a lot more for Taker/HHH than Rock/Cena, and two months ago I never thought that would be the case.

I'm actually also looking forward to Punk/Jericho more than Rock/Cena as well. I like how they're fighting over who the best in the world is and that the WWE Title symbolizes who that person is. Punk wants to prove he's the best wrestler in the world and Jericho wants to prove he's still the best in the world. But just to keep it from getting to bland I like that they injected the a personal side to this story on Raw, with Jericho trying to break Punk down and get to him. And based on the way Punk sold the promo, it looks like he was successful. They've built the feud up beautifully and I'm looking forward to seeing what Punk has to say next week.

Rest of the card doesn't interest me much. Sheamus/Bryan has the same problem as Edge/Del Rio last year, and it's that there just isn't much substance to the feud. Orton/Kane is... random. Rhodes/Show build up has been decent enough, and I like that the IC Title is on the WM card. Honestly out of all the undercard feuds, Rhodes/Show is what I've liked the most. Team Laurinitis vs. Team Long isn't bad, but we don't even know the full teams yet (or I don't anyway). And I think that's it.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

How's WM looking? For me, kinda like this:

1] Sheamus-Bryan: I have never let myself forget that "Great White" won his Titles on a Fatal 4-way & a Tables match. Have no interest in seeing him win a HW Title ever again, but will be nice to see him try in a usual singles match against a very good wrestler.

2] Punk-Jericho: Outside of the Rock's "concert", Jericho's bit on the 'Tron may have been what bored me more than anything in the live crowd this week. That said, I have been dreaming of this match since Punk started using the popular phrase, & both are great wrestlers, so am looking forward to this (long as no stips or anything get added to screw it up).

3] Taker-HHH: I was perhaps the only one in Cleveland who literally did not care when Taker came to the ring. To me, he has long seemed like Flair & Hogan, currently living (in the biz) largely on the fumes of his earlier great moments/matches. That said, add a HHH rematch, HBK as ref, "End Of An Era" talk (reminds me of something with Vince &... I think Austin?), & HIAC, & I'm into this as much as I think I ever will be.

4] Rock-Cena: Honestly, I think I saw this discussed online for a long time before it was announced. I thought it was impossible for the match to live up to the promo work both would do. To my surprise, it appears quite possible, as Cena has been stellar, while Rock left much to be (proverbially) desired.

5] Almost forgot about Rhodes-Show... I'm hoping I will between now & the event.

6] GM Teams: Not really sure until teams get confirmed.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Always wanted to see HHH/Taker in the Cell. Hopefully they still have enough in them to produce something great. I'd be shocked if it's better than last year's match.

Haven't followed the product in months but glad to hear Danielson is still world champion. The two title matches look good on paper. 

What's Christian doing?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ownage™;11154010 said:


> What's Christian doing?


He'll likely be in the 12 man tag team match (Team Johnny v. Team Teddy). Along with Henry, Del Rio, Santino, Otunga, Kofi, Truth, etc. I'm hoping Mysterio is healthy enough to be back for it as well.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Ownage™ said:


> What's Christian doing?


My guess is inducting Edge into the HOF, & then joining Johnny's team at Mania. I hope in a losing effort, at which time GM Long makes sure he has a short rest-of-career.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wait, who's the heel in Bryan/Sheamus? Or is it face v face?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Bryan is a heel and a good one at that. He's in a relationship with former NXT diva AJ and he just talks down on her. Leading up to his turn Bryan actually threw her in front of Big Show while the big man was running at him during a match. When Show knocked her out Bryan blamed Show for it. He's playing a really good self-righteous son of a bitch imo.

Check this out


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Well ain't that somethin. Heel champion Danielson in WWE. I completely lost interest in wrestling but Wrestlemania is sucking me back in a little bit. Think I'm gonna download the Rumble and Elimination Chamber. How were those shows?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Those shows to me actually exposed how thin WWE's roster is today (in star power). There's nothing really to see at Royal Rumble other than the final two showdown. I didn't like the booking of Punk/Ziggler but you can watch it. They had a better match on Raw the night after Survivor Series on 11/21/11. Raw EC was OK, the finish to Smackdown's was cool but that's it. You're lucky you missed the Cena/Kane/Ryder/Eve feud on Raw.

Check out the Punk/Bryan matches on Raw and Smackdown. They've had three this year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Where's that trusty Seabs best of 2012 thread?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Royal Rumble 2012*

Daniel Bryan v Big Show v Mark Henry
It's interesting how taste changes over time. At one point I couldn't stand guys like Big Show and Mark Henry, now I prefer them to a lot of the more athletic flashier workers. Bryan didn't really get the chance to light it up like I was hoping but he played his role well and Show looked good. The finish came somewhat abruptly but it was something different so I'm cool with it. Decent opener, serviceable title defense.

**1/4

Divas Tag
I've seen worse but this was pretty bad. Not much to talk about. Kelly Kelly did a high spot which was kinda cool but didn't look very good, Beth hit the Glam Slam, Eve looked decent when she was in the ring but they should show her booty pop from the back view, don't remember anything else. Bra and panties matches are sorely missed.

1/2*

John Cena v Kane
Wow, I really enjoyed this. Like as much as I ever thought it was possible to enjoy a match between these two. Let me start by saying this is the first time I've seen Kane since his comeback and he looks badass as fuck in that attire. That definitely added to my enjoyment of the match. Always loved me some Kane uppercuts and dug the strike exchanges between the two. Also like that new suffocation move Kane uses. Strong showing from him and Cena held up his end of the bargain in typical Cena fashion. Disappointing finish but I was into this from start to finish. The post match stuff was solid as well.

***1/4

Brodus Clay v Drew McIntyre
What The Funk?

CM Punk v Dolph Ziggler
Good match with smooth technical work and slick counters as you'd expect. Fell short of being a show stealer but still good. Can't say I cared for the Laurinaitis shit.

***1/4

Rumble Match
Won't last long in the memory as far as top notch Rumbles go but it had its moments. Enjoyed the comedy stuff early on especially Ricardo's cameo, Kofi's handstand spot was a highlight, and the three announcers being in it was kinda cool although overall I felt the field showcased a glaring lack of star power. Nice to see Jericho back. Solid back and forth action from the final two. Fun Rumble.

***1/2

Mid-level PPV.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

About to order a silvervision tagged classics but can't really decide which one. Am thinking about Backlash/Judgement Day 2001, KOTR/Invasion 2001, Unforgiven/No Mercy 2001 or Survivor Series/Vengeance 2001. Suggestions please.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Question about the Raw & Smackdown: The Best of 2011 DVD....

In the matches where they cut to commercial break do they cut the 3 minutes of the match or do you get to see what was going on during the commercials when the show originally aired? This might make or break if I buy this set because I actually think last year was a really good year for wrestling.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Question about the Raw & Smackdown: The Best of 2011 DVD....
> 
> In the matches where they cut to commercial break do they cut the 3 minutes of the match or do you get to see what was going on during the commercials when the show originally aired? This might make or break if I buy this set because I actually think last year was a really good year for wrestling.


I doubt you'd get the full matches. They haven't done that before to my knowledge.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

hanshanshans911 said:


> About to order a silvervision tagged classics but can't really decide which one. Am thinking about Backlash/Judgement Day 2001, KOTR/Invasion 2001, Unforgiven/No Mercy 2001 or Survivor Series/Vengeance 2001. Suggestions please.


Go for unforgiven and no mercy. Both are top quality PPVs and No Mercy is one of my favourite PPVs of all time.

Austin vs Angle vs RVD
Edge vs Christian in a ladder match
Rock vs Jericho
Kane vs Test (better than it had any right to be!)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching the Batista(always liked him for some reason) DVD now and was thinking, if you ever want to see a true star making feud, look no further than the HHH-Batista feud in 2005. You can't put over another wrestler better than HHH did in 05 for Batista. HHH was dominating the title scene for 2 and a half years at that point, and here comes this MONSTER face who is getting huge pops from the crowd, and he goes over HHH on 3 main events in a row CLEAN ?

HHH also gave Batista one of the best HIAC matches of all time, and one of my favorite matches ever. I have it at ***** 3/4*, an absolute WAR from start to finish. So now I'm going to throw out a few random questions:

- Has there ever been a better "Put-over" job than what HHH did for Batista?
- Top 10 best/favorite Batista matches anyone ?


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

1. vs Triple H Hell in the Cell 2. vs Taker Wrestlemania 23 3. vs Edge Night of Champions 2007 4. vs Cena at Wrestlemania 26 and Summerslam 2008 6. vs Shawn Michaels One Night Stand 2008 7. vs Cm Punk Great American Bash 8. vs Randy Orton the Night after New Year's Revolution 9. vs Chris Jericho Cyber Sunday 10. vs Chris Benoit on Monday Night Raw Before New Year's Revolution


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> - Has there ever been a better "Put-over" job than what HHH did for Batista?


There are other examples I can use but just talking HIACs, Taker/Lesnar at least matches that. Lesnar came out of that looking absolutely barbaric and just dominant as he physically decimated The Undertaker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Watching the Batista(always liked him for some reason) DVD now and was thinking, if you ever want to see a true star making feud, look no further than the HHH-Batista feud in 2005. You can't put over another wrestler better than HHH did in 05 for Batista. HHH was dominating the title scene for 2 and a half years at that point, and here comes this MONSTER face who is getting huge pops from the crowd, and he goes over HHH on 3 main events in a row CLEAN ?
> 
> HHH also gave Batista one of the best HIAC matches of all time, and one of my favorite matches ever. I have it at ***** 3/4*, an absolute WAR from start to finish. So now I'm going to throw out a few random questions:
> 
> ...


1) I can't recall a better put over job. Despite the fact HHH was probably the most dominant heel in the last 10 years by far, and that he buried a few potentially big talents in his way, it all built up to when somebody did out-do HHH on every occasion, and that man that did was Batista, which meant a massive put-over for him. None have been as big as that. The closest one I can think of is Taker for Lesnar in 02, but even that's not quite at the level of what HHH did for Batista. HHH basically built Batista from the ground up, while Taker was working with a guy who was already partly constructed. This all being said, the matches between HHH/Batista weren't anything out of the ordinary for Batista at that time, besides the cell match, which is my number 4 top Cell match of all time.

2) Best Batista matches imo:

1) vs. Undertaker WM23 (****1/2)
2) vs. HHH Vengeance 05 (****1/2)
3) vs. Undertaker Cyber Sunday 07 (****1/4)
4) vs. Undertaker SS07 (****1/4)
5) vs. Undertaker Backlash 07 (****)
6) vs. Cena Summerslam 08 (****)
7) vs. Edge NoC 08 (****)
8) vs. Cena WM26 (***3/4)
9) vs. HBK ER08 (***3/4) (I think it was ER... it was the stretcher match I'm talking about)
10) vs. Eddie Guerrero NM05 (***1/2)

All off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm forgetting a match or two.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Triple H and Shawn both made Benoit look like a million bucks. He kicked their asses together, separate, iron man matches, submission matches, handicap matches. Benoit looked like the definition of a heroic champ

and then Orton beat him for no reason


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember reading they put the belt on Orton because they wanted someone younger than Lesnar to win the title.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

It had decent storyline potential. But Orton's momentum got Triple H'd and Benoit got sent down hard

Its bullshit, the storyline practically wrote itself. Benoit beating Triple H every single time, and then Benoit finally losing to Orton leading to Orton rebelling vs Evolution?

The storyline would have been awesome. A three way war between Benoit/ Triple H/ Orton. Instead, Orton got his ass kicked and Benoit got sent down the card


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They apparetly really hated babyface Oton early on too (so they're like everyone else ) and Batista was given his push and world title spot at Mania.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I forget where, but I read somewhere they regretted the Orton Title win very soon after they did it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lasted 28 days (IIRC, until the next PPV), so I wouldn't be surprised if Vince was shoving his own finger in his eye that very night. Hunter wins it from him in a month, then the title's vacated in November (the match where it's vacated is really fun, btw) and he wins it BACK AGAIN without any transitions in January. I don't get that line of thinking.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*WWF - 25/11/85*
Terry Funk vs Mr Wrestling III
***1/2

*WWF - Saturday Night Main Event - 4/1/86*
Terry Funk vs Hulk Hogan
***1/4

*WWF - Wrestlemania 2*
Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Junkyard Dog & Tito Santana
***1/2

*WWF - Saturday Night Main Event - 3/5/86*
Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Junkyard Dog & Hulk Hogan
***1/2


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Okay ordered both the Backlash/Judgement Day 01 tagged classics and the KOTR/Invasion 01


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*SuperBrawl 2000*

Not going to do star ratings, but I will say that I think this PPV was headed in the right direction, it was just some of the execution that faltered. I think WCW had the right idea, but some of it was just a waste of time.

You could see that WCW was actually started to push new guys here. Despite the presence of Hogan, Sting, Flair, Luger, the main event was very fresh. There was also a nice something for everyone approach.

Contrary to what everyone else had said, I actually really enjoyed the special appearance by James Brown. Everyone complained about how WCW lost out on money by having an unadvertised appearance, but that was what made it so great. It was a surprise. The idea that Cat kept promising James Brown and never delivered, no one actually expected him to show. When he did, it got a great pop, and I really enjoyed Cat paying tribute and James Brown dancing too.

I think the problem is that there was just too much filler crap: 3 Count/Normal Smiley, The Wall/Kiss Demon (the special "featured" main event, just to appease Kiss), Tank Abbot/Big Al, and just not enough time for all the matches.

The three main events actually worked. Sadly, Flair/Funk was the best match on the card, and a nice belated sequel to their '89 feud. There's a big table spot which is pretty sick to watch. 

Hogan/Luger is short and sweet, and never boring. Hogan returns big, but Luger keeps up with him. 

The main event between Sid/Jarrett/Hall is pretty good, but it's only 8 minutes long, which kind of sucks, because all three were game, Jarrett was bumping like crazy, Hall was getting nice pops, and it had the cool intrigue of two guys who had never been champion before challenging. An extra five minutes and this would be a lot better. An extra ten and it could have been great.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

Ratings and reviews for the SD! 2003 Iron Man Match - Angle vs. Lesnar please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B_gHCLfXbA&list=UUhfkc-NtoikVAjtADZkJPWw&index=36&feature=plcp


----------



## FearIs4UP (Apr 8, 2007)

Watching the KOTR DVD and remembering how awesome Shane McMahon matches were.

Dude was great.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

FearIs4UP said:


> Watching the KOTR DVD and remembering how awesome Shane McMahon matches were.
> 
> Dude was great.


Testify.

Imagine how awesome he'd be had he gone through a couple of years proper training. The man would be insane. Him vs. Orton at NWO 09 (I think?) is one of my favourite matches of the past couple of years, simply because Shane sells like a bitch! Very entertaining, was the boy.


----------



## MarkOut4Barrett (Oct 13, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2005, Unforgiven 2007, No Way Out 2006 and Survivor Series 2011 came through the post today :


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Unforgiven 2007 is disappointing but Punk/Burke and Murdoch & Cade vs Londrick are good.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

NWO 2006 is such an underrated PPV (is it?). I remember ordering it and thinking it was awesome; might pick it up eventually on DVD. Might give Unforgiven 07 a watch soon, maybe this weekend. I switched off throughout 07, especially on Raw.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Taker/Angle
Orton/Mysterio
CW Open
Benoit/Booker
Tatanka/Hardy vs MNM

All really strong matches with the first two being epic.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Any Tatanka match is enough reason to watch a PPV, IMO :ex:

Taker/Angle was WWE MOTY, from what I can remember. Nothing much else challenges it, I don't think?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Any Tatanka match is enough reason to watch a PPV, IMO :ex:
> 
> Taker/Angle was WWE MOTY, from what I can remember. Nothing much else challenges it, I don't think?


It's certainly my 2006 MOTY but its challengers from WWE are Edge/Foley WM, Benoit/Finlay JD, Edge & Foley/Funk & Dreamer ONS, Edge/Cena Unforgiven, and the 4 way tag ladder match at Armageddon.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

FearIs4UP said:


> Watching the KOTR DVD and remembering how awesome Shane McMahon matches were.
> 
> Dude was great.


Shane was awesome... At both promos & matches, IMO. Watching Jericho enter on "SD" tonight, wa s thinking how great some of his stuff with/about Steph was. Would LOVE to see Steph or Shane on TV now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think I have the ONS tag match as my '06 MOTY. Alot of stuff I enjoyed that year though and Taker/Angle is probably #2.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Okay ordered both the Backlash/Judgement Day 01 tagged classics and the KOTR/Invasion 01


Does anyone have ratings/reviews?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

You UK fans are lucky you have access to those tagged classics. Wish I could order a few of those.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Any Tatanka match is enough reason to watch a PPV, IMO :ex:
> 
> Taker/Angle was WWE MOTY, from what I can remember. Nothing much else challenges it, I don't think?


 I've actually never been a huge fan. This is coming from a huge Angle mark, and big fan of UT's, but I felt that while this match was very good, it never went into that third gear. It just kind of felt stuck. Good match, just built up. I actually prefer the WWE Title match they had on SmackDown in August 2003, the one on "Tombstone."

2006 was a tough year for MOTYs, because I feel that, like 2010, there were a lot of very good/great matches, but nothing ***** or immediately worthy of being THE match.

But if I had to, my first choice would probably be the Edge/Cena TLC match. I don't normally choose gimmick matches for MOTY, because I feel like it's kind of cheating, but this was just a great match in very respect: a great wrestling match, a great brawl, a great ladder match, a great title match. You name it. I love this match.

Edge/Foley is amazing, but I can't give ***** to a 14-minute match. Edge/Orton, on the other hand, is much closer. It feels bigger.



> Does anyone have ratings/reviews?


 I actually recently watched Austin/UT from Judgment Day '01 for the first time; fun brawl, very intense, possibly their best match together (which isn't really saying much, though).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****3/4
Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown January 13th 2006 - ****1/2
The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - Smackdown March 3rd 2006 - ****1/4
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ****1/4
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - WrestleMania #1 Contender Spot - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****1/4
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - King of the Ring Qualifying Match - Smackdown May 5th 2006 - ****1/4
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nürnberg, Germany 08/11/2006 - ****1/4
Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - No Holds Barred - Smackdown January 27th 2006 - ****1/4
Mr Kennedy Vs The Undertaker - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ****1/4
William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ****
Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - ****
Batista Vs King Booker Vs Finlay - WHC - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - ****

All matches deserving of being mentioned as "MOTYC" for 2006. And that's JUST on the SD side. Then we have Edge/Foley from WM, Edge & Foley (with Lita) Vs Funk & Dreamer (with Beulah) from ONS, HHH/Cena from WM, and no doubt I'll find some more matches once I get back on my Raw 06 project .


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*NWA - Clash of Champions - 14/6/89*
Terry Funk vs Ricky Steamboat
****1/4

Watching so much Funk as I have had in the past few weeks, I'm just lost as to how the WWF never made him one of there biggest stars.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Funk is the main reason he was never a star in WWF; he refused to be under contract as he wanted to be "free" so to speak to wrestle where ever he wanted and when and whatnot. Was on one of his shoots or something I think, I remember watching it a while back and hearing him talk about it.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

The best thing Funk ever did was get chokeslammed out of his shoes by Taker at KOTR 98 hahahaha! (kidding, kind of lol)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, the big Top 100 WCW Matches ever poll is over. Eddie/Rey ended up being #1, just ahead of Flair/Steamboat Clash of the Champions VI. I'll be turning the full list into a comp once I get together all the footage I need.

My personal top 100 list:



Spoiler: list



1.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
2.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993
3.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997
4.	Belfast Bruiser Vs Steven Regal - Uncensored 24/03/1996
5.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993
6.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
7.	War Games - WrestleWar 17/05/1992
8.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 07/05/1989
9.	Vader Vs Ric Flair – Starrcade 27/12/1993
10.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Philadelphia 18/03/1989
11.	Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992
12.	Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994
13.	Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 17/09/1995
14.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 20/02/1989
15.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Landover 18/03/1989
16.	Hulk Hogan Vs Ric Flair - Halloween Havoc 23/10/1995 
17.	Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
18.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Clash of the Champions IX 15/11/1989
19.	Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas - Starrcade 28/12/1992
20.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 14/09/1997
21.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 23/07/1989
22.	Cactus Jack Vs Sting - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
23.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 16/10/1995
24.	Hollywood Blonds Vs 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell - Worldwide 08/05/1993
25.	Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994
26.	Vader Vs Davey Boy Smith – Slamboree 23/05/1993
27.	War Games - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996
28.	The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express Vs The Midnight Express - WrestleWar 25/02/1990
29.	Vader Vs Ricky Steamboat - Worldwide 29/05/1993
30.	Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes – Saturday Night 21/11/1992
31.	Vader Vs The Boss - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994
32.	Goldberg Vs Diamond Dallas Page – Halloween Havoc 25/10/1998
33.	The Steiner Bothers Vs The Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 27/10/1990
34.	Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne Vs The Nasty Boys - SuperBrawl IV 20/02/1994
35.	Jake Roberts Vs Dustin Rhodes - Saturday Night 26/09/1992
36.	Dustin Rhodes Vs Arn Anderson – Saturday Night 04/01/1992
37.	Finlay Vs Steven Regal – Nitro 29/04/1996
38.	Sting Vs Vader - Starrcade 28/12/1992
39.	Ron Simmons Vs Vader - Main Event 02/08/1992
40.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair - Hog Wild 10/08/1996
41.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair - Nitro 20/05/1996
42.	Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions XVII 19/11/1991 
43.	Cactus Jack Vs Sting – Power Hour 16/11/1991
44.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 14/05/1994
45.	Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996
46.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999
47.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Goldberg - Nitro 19/04/1999
48.	Steven Regal Vs Ultimo Dragon - Slamboree 18/05/1997
49.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Chris Benoit - SuperBrawl VIII 22/02/1998
50.	Rick Rude Vs Dustin Rhodes - Worldwide 03/05/1992
51.	Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 23/05/1992
52.	Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko – Clash of the Champions XXVII 23/06/1994
53.	Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan Vs The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 22/05/1994
54.	Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - Starrcade 26/12/1988
55.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of Champions 28/08/1994
56.	Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994
57.	Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Slamboree 17/05/1998
58.	Ric Flair Vs Lord Steven Regal - Worldwide 01/05/1994 to 29/05/1994
59.	Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992
60.	3 Count Vs Jung Dragons Vs Jamie Knoble & Evan Karagias - Starrcade 17/12/2000
61.	Sid Vicious Vs Chris Benoit - Souled Out 16/01/2000
62.	Hak Vs Bam Bam Bigelow - Spring Stampede 11/04/1999
63.	Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - WrestleWar 25/02/1990
64.	Dick Murdoch Vs Bob Orton Jr - WrestleWar 07/05/1989
65.	Stars & Stripes Vs Arn Anderson & Vader - Saturday Night 15/04/1995
66.	Dick Murdoch Vs Bob Orton Jr - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
67.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Raven Vs Chris Benoit - Uncensored 15/03/1998
68.	Mortis & Wrath Vs Glacier & The Cat - Bash at the Beach 13/07/1997
69.	Vader Vs Cactus Jack - Main Event 07/03/1993
70.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 26/10/1998
71.	Eddy Guerrero and Chris Jericho Vs The Faces of Fear - Nitro 24/02/1997
72.	Sting Vs Steven Regal – Great American Bash 16/06/1996
73.	Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993
74.	Arn Anderson Vs Big Josh - Saturday Night 02/05/1992
75.	Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 08/09/1997
76.	War Games - WrestleWar 24/02/1991
77.	Goldberg Vs Scott Steiner - Fall Brawl 17/09/2000
78.	Lex Luger Vs Ricky Steamboat - Great American Bash 23/07/1989
79.	Sting & Ric Flair Vs Vader & Rick Rude – Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994
80.	Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko – Saturday Night 28/05/1994
81.	Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes - Clash Of The Champions XXIX 16/11/1994
82.	Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs The Steiner Brothers - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992
83.	Ric Flair & Sting Vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 12/09/1989
84.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Shinjiro Ontani - Starrcade 27/12/1995
85.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Cactus Jack - Worldwide 22/02/1992
86.	Chris Jericho Vs Dean Malenko - Uncensored 15/03/1998
87.	Arn Anderson Vs Shane Douglas - World Championship Wrestling 17/02/1990
88.	Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Barry Windham & Ron Simmons - Pro 09/11/1991
89.	Chris Benoit Vs Mike Enos - Souled Out 17/01/1999
90.	Cactus Jack Vs Paul Orndorff - Superbrawl III 12/02/1993
91.	Vader Vs Hulk Hogan - Superbrawl 19/02/1995
92.	Mean Mark Callous Vs Lex Luger - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
93.	Arn Anderson Vs Hulk Hogan – Nitro 12/02/1996
94.	Ric Flair Vs The Giant – Nitro 25/03/1996
95.	War Games - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994
96.	Brian Pillman Vs Jushin Liger - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992
97.	Arn Anderson Vs Alex Wright - Slamboree 21/05/1995
98.	Chris Benoit Vs Jeff Jarrett - Mayhem 21/11/1999
99.	Terry Funk Vs Norman Smiley - Spring Stampede 16/04/2000
100.	Kwee Wee Vs Jason Jett – Greed 18/03/2001


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble 1989*
A fun match, that kept me entertained throughout. I didn't even knew this match went 23 minutes till it was announced when the match was over. It flew by so fast. I felt the pacing to be a bit off though and the psychology was lacking in the sense that Flair never really went after Steamboat's leg, even after putting him in the figure four leg lock. That and the match just felt like who's the better chopper. Still, a fun memorable match with some simple yet effective spots.

******

BTW, I'm finally getting around to watching the Flair/Steamboat bouts. It's so hard to find the matches on Youtube so it's taking a while. I'll probably have to check XWT-Classics but then again my ratio is so poor on that site. Anyway, which bouts do you recommend? And which one(s) is/are your favourite? I see Meltzer has Chi-Town Rumble at *****. Must have had to witness the match at the time and be a part of the build and what not to really, really enjoy that one it seems.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Jaysin said:


> The best thing Funk ever did was get chokeslammed out of his shoes by Taker at KOTR 98 hahahaha! (kidding, kind of lol)


All I remember of Funk outside of "Beyond The Mat" is Foley's talk about him & his shoes at/around Foley's famous HIAC with Taker.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

On Flair/Steamboat, it was ground breaking wrestling for that generation. It hasn't aged well and that's not the purpose because the match was for that generation. Those matches focused on simple wrestling + storytelling, and that's why it is so acclaimed. Personally, WrestleWar is a 5-star classic for me. The others are a notch or two lower.

Most people begrudge matches that don't age well, but I don't find it an issue. In fact, that is why throwing away 5-star ratings could hurt other matches because what would you rate a timeless classic? There are few timeless classics, but many, many classics for their generation. That's the difference.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of classics, I just re-watched a recent one. Had to go back to my review from last year and change/add some things. So here it is from WM27: 












*TRIPLE H vs. THE UNDERTAKER*

_We have had some legendary and immortal moments created at WrestleMania. To me, Undertaker vs. Triple H WrestleMania 27 is an immortal moment but it is also poetically a very MORTAL moment for character known as The Undertaker. The match wasn’t just another WrestleMania spectacle, it is a storytelling masterpiece. The way they tied in the story arc of ending defiant legends like at past WrestleManias is remarkable to see unfold. This time HHH is the dominate one and Taker is the one being set up to be put down ala Ric Flair at WM24 and Shawn at WM26. Watching the finale of this match live, my mind and heart was racing because I FELT like this match was going to be the end of The Undertaker.

In this epic, Taker once again (as he did at 25 & 26) proved that when it comes to selling a match's brutality he is one of the best ever. Every year at WrestleMania when he does it people speculate whether he is seriously injured from the first big move. I feel this also further shows what a phenomenal worker he continues to be in spite of age and injuries. Not to mention he continues to bust out the suicide dive! I thought he’d never do that move again after the hip surgery in 2009. I also want to commend HHH for his dangerous bumps to outside of the ring and especially for that backdrop from the announce table to the floor.These men were throwing and taking bombs from the word go! I personally don't think more "in ring action" would have accomplished anything. Frankly, it would've been utterly pointless and taken away from the story of the match. Triple H wanted to end The Streak. He didn't have to prove he was a better wrestler, or work on a body part, or showboat like Shawn did. He already mentioned those were not his intensions in his promo before Mania. Throwing bombs is all he needed to do.

I thought the spots at ringside were perfectly timed from the start of the match because a) it showed how desperate HHH was to just get. it. done. b) Taker took such a huge beating early in the fight that it made the next 25 minutes of the match feel that much more dramatic. Taker had already been through a battle even though they'd only been going at it 5-10 minutes. c0 What does HHH want to mess around in the ring "wrestling" for when he can gore Taker through a glass wall or smash him through a table with a spinebuster? 

Of course this big time showdown had many big spots and the match quality benefitted from it, but at the core they mostly worked off pure storytelling. This included included Undertaker once again with a breath-taking performance selling his pain and Triple H putting The Streak in grave jeopardy. It was a sickening sick to see Taker crumble to the mat after HHH's chair shot to the skull. Taker twitching his fingers after that made the match look more brutal. For those who complain about them selling too much lying on the mat, there is no reason they shouldn't have extensively sold that type of onslaught they had placed on each other.

I liked the Pedigrees being one right after the other too. Watch any other big Mania match when the finishers are executed in swift secession like Triple H did here and with that extra exclamation point as well (spike Pedigree), it makes those false finishes more exciting. They built the ‘sense of finality’ very well I thought. This told a far better story for the direction they were going for than "reversal out of reversal!" and "Trips does something/kick out/Taker does something/kick out" etc. Everything HHH dish out, Undertaker kicked out of. He refused to die and after each Pedigree it just continued to feel one step closer to the end of the Undertaker. If the kick outs had been spaced out over the course of the match I don't think the build to the finish would have had the right effect at all. 

What I also loved was HHH’s character portrayal or journey that links back to the build before the match when Shawn said that HHH differed from him in the sense that “ Hunter could do things to other human beings and not feel the slightest bit of remorse.” However, moments after HHH battered Taker with the steel chair the story took a bit of a turn. When Taker was pulling himself up onto HHH almost in the exact manner that Michaels pulled himself up onto Taker at WM26, HHH looked down on Taker with the same look of confusion, pity and anger that Taker had for Shawn. That Shawn had for Ric. That was such an incredible callback moment. Before the match HHH said he would “die trying to end The Streak” but throughout this match it looked as if he was going to kill Taker in his attempts to “END IT.” 

Then HHH came to a point where he seemingly was taking pity on this MAN. Hunter wanted to end The Streak but The Undertaker just will NOT let it go and "stay down." HHH eventually arrived at the internally frustrating realization that he might have to ANNIHILATE the MAN he respects more than any other. HHH played his role perfectly. This is his best character portrayal ever in my opinion. HHH went from having everything under his control, to being frustrated that Taker wouldn't stay down, to disturbed with himself for what he was doing, to straight up terrified by the amount of damage Taker was able to sustain. The absolute best matches usually involve top-notch storytelling and emotional character involvement, and I think those elements here are off the page. I look at this, the HBK/Taker matches and HBK/Flair as one big story arc. Each match drew off the one before it and developed the themes to perfection.










Then HHH signaled for THE END and hit Undertaker with THE TOMBSTONE!!! I think that's where this match went from great to legendary to me. In that moment I was convinced that things had come full circle and Taker was about to lose The Streak. It is arguably the best kick-out ever, on the same level as Taker/HBK from WM25. They got me to believe HHH would end the streak! If HHH was really going to put Undertaker down, the cut throat gesture and Tombstone would have been one hell of a way to do it. 

Ultimately with Undertaker's determination to live, that sequence was the best way to further solidify The Streak as the most indestructible entity in wrestling and even though Undertaker was physically broken he was NOT DEFEATED.

The finish was just brilliant. Taker going for the last gasp Hell’s Gate shows how much The Streak means to him. Triple H had the sledgehammer prepared to go off on The Deadman’s head so this was Taker's last chance to win and it worked! The Hell’s Gate choke hold was the only way to finish it! I loved how his attempt to apply the hold was a real struggle for him just to get it locked in. It worked better than suddenly catching him in the move perfectly. They've also built up the Hell's Gate as a great finisher which ends a match when nothing else works. Very smart ending. 

Some people (including me) have mentioned how they would have preferred it to end with an unconscious HHH passing out in Hell’s Gate. It certainly would have tied in with the ‘die trying’ line but because the story evolved during the match I don’t think it would have fit here. The whole story of the match was the reverse of HHH dying while trying to end The Streak, it was now the Undertaker dying while trying to keep it. HHH passing out would have taken away the significance Undertaker’s destroyed state at the end which was the main focus. 

The message is that The Undertaker you fight on WrestleMania night isn't the same as the one who might fight at any other show. That is the intangible, mythical, and aura The Streak holds at WrestleMania. The Streak is where the power lies. Undertaker is now just the PHENOMenal mortal that defends it year after year … but for how much longer?

They blew the roof off of the Georgia Dome and produced an all-time classic. I respect The Undertaker more than any superstar/wrestler/performer/whatever McMahon wants to call them now. Year after year, Mark Calaway never ceases to amaze me but I feel the end is near because performances like this where he literally almost kills himself can’t continue. I don’t know what the future of The Streak is but if it ends with THE MAN, The Undertaker, being unable to maintain his death grip on it (thinking about this makes the Hell’s Gate finish more significant) then it would be a dramatic end of an era for The Last Outlaw and a WrestleMania legend.

_​
Match Rating: ***** 1/2*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - Raw 1/30/12
Exactly what you'd expect from arguably the two best workers in the company. Well structured, nice blend of hard-hitting physicality and clean technical wrestling, good limb work from Bryan (who looked like a fuckin champ in this match) and equally good selling from Punk (loved that he switched arms to deliver the bulldog). Just a really strong TV match up before the Jericho interference. The commentators hyped up the fact that Punk and Bryan were trying to prove who the best in the world really is and the way they worked this match legitimately made me think yeah these two guys could very well be the best, unlike when they try to put over Cena and Orton like that. Let them go all out for 20 mins on PPV. Please.

***1/2

*Elimination Chamber 2012*

Raw Chamber
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Started off okay with Kofi and Punk but really picked up as the ring began to fill up. Lots of good bumping, some sweet spots (marked for the sequence where Kofi hit Trouble in Paradise out of nowhere then followed it up with that DDT on the steel), and then when it was starting to feel a bit too spotty Jericho came in and brought the psychology. Him hiding from Punk in the chamber and then using the pod to fuck Punk up was great and although I didn't like the down time when Jericho was knocked out his elimination was perfect for progressing the feud with Punk. We've seen better final twos in the chamber than Punk and Miz but overall I thought this was really good.

***3/4

Beth Phoenix v Tamina Snuka
Not bad at all for a divas match. 

*3/4

Smackdown Chamber
First half of the match was slow and boring and bad but the second half was really good. Show breaking into Bryan's chamber and beating the shit out of him was great. As was Cody celebrating when he eliminated Show only to get embarrassed by Santino immediately. Not a Barrett fan but he looked like a boss at times, mainly when he powerbombed Bryan into the cage and slammed the pod door on his head. Perfect use of Santino in this match, and everyone else had a chance to look good (well except Khali but that's because he sucks). Would've been as good as or better than the Raw version if the opening stages weren't so plodding and uninspiring.

***1/4

Jack Swagger v Justin Gabriel
Didn't really pay attention. 

John Cena v Kane
Average main event and a step down from their effort at the Rumble. Decent brawl. Nothing you have to go out of your way to see.

**1/2


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

So, what are your guys favourite matches of Christian?

I for one am a big fan of that one IC Title Match against Benjamin, I think it was at survivior series?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RevolverSnake said:


> So, what are your guys favourite matches of Christian?
> 
> I for one am a big fan of that one IC Title Match against Benjamin, I think it was at survivior series?


Yeah, its from Survivor Series 04. One of my favourite Christian matches too. I also love:

Vs Jack Swagger ECW 24/02/2009 (second best match of 09 imo)
Vs William Regal ECW 10/11/2009 (was there live)
w/Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson ECW 26/01/2010 (incredible tag match)
Vs Drew McIntyre Smackdown 16/07/2010 & Smackdown 30/07/2010

Hell, almost anything the guy did since returning to WWE was good and fun. Then for stuff before his return, there are plenty of tag matches with Edge, as well as his singles matches against the likes of Randy Orton, Chris Jericho and others.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

And how is the vengeance 2005 triple threat? I want to check it out later but did you guys liked it. I mean a big critic point is obviously that cc didn't won but...


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble 1989*
> A fun match, that kept me entertained throughout. I didn't even knew this match went 23 minutes till it was announced when the match was over. It flew by so fast. I felt the pacing to be a bit off though and the psychology was lacking in the sense that Flair never really went after Steamboat's leg, even after putting him in the figure four leg lock. That and the match just felt like who's the better chopper. Still, a fun memorable match with some simple yet effective spots.
> 
> ******
> ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7lm5XHxvmA

My personal favorite of the series. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. It seems this match is virtually unknown.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RevolverSnake said:


> And how is the vengeance 2005 triple threat? I want to check it out later but did you guys liked it. I mean a big critic point is obviously that cc didn't won but...


I remember it being pretty good. Angle/HBK and the HIAC match blew it away, but the entire PPV was really fucking good anyway and that was just another really good match on a very strong card.

Re: Flair/Steamboat - 2 out of 3 falls Clash match remains my absolute favourite bout between them. Still need to watch some of their older matches though, such as that one from 84. Got something crazy like 20 matches between them (some JIP, some full, some terrible quality lol) on discs, but its getting around to watching them and trying to not burn myself out on their matches (like some people did during the WCW Poll we recently did, and that was only with... 8 matches I think).


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*NWA 28/7/89*
Terry Funk vs Scott Hall
**3/4

*Halloween Havoc 1989*
Terry Funk & The Great Muta vs Ric Flair & Sting
***1/2

*NWA 15/11/89 - I Quit Match*
Terry Funk vs Ric Flair
*****


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Honestly, it seems as if the Flair/Steamboat bouts were extraordinary for their time but it seems as if they haven't age well. And it's not because the matches are bad, that 1984 match I give ****1/2. It had great pacing, it was a good old school style match where simple but effective moves were used and it got the job done.

The problem is some spots such as the one at the end where Flair took Steamboat over with the headlock, Steamboat countered into the head scissors and Flair went for the pin and Steamboat reversed with the backslide have been overused to death nowadays. Heck those kind of spots take place within the first 2 minutes of matches nowadays. Not to mention the ridiculously fast pace at which it occurs. This is why I complain about indy wrestling and made a thread about in the Other section. And I'm not trying to stir a pot there, I'm just saying that the more and more high impact moves become regular moves the more unbelievable and hard to sell wrestling becomes. When roll ups are over used they lose the magical feel of the babyface trying to give it all that he's got left in the tank to win this. or the heel outsmarting the face and you're thinking "holy shit" There was a point in time in Japan where guys were kicking out of piledrivers after 1. When the audience is told to believe that you can take a brainbuster followed up with shining wizard followed up by a top rope suplex into another suplex on the floor and still kick out, then what could possibly end a match? 

And the indies are not guilty of this alone. I look at Bret Hart vs Steve Austin WM XIII and think damn what a great match. Talk about a ****1/2 match. Only to figure out that the time this was considered a ***** match? By the late 90s, that's the kind of matches we were getting on RAW. That style of wrestling (the brawling, hard hitting style) became the norm. What was once seen as extraordinary is now seen as ordinary. 

I'm a fan of that old school style of wrestling that Flair/Steamboat match from 84 demonstrated, but I'm pretty a lot of new school fans aren't gonna have that match any higher than ***1/2. The opening 10 minutes would have put lots of people to sleep. 

Pro wrestling has evolved so much over the years that these classic matches are soon becoming just great matches. 20 years from now classics of this time would be seen as just great matches as well. The only thing I'm worried about is WWE turning to the indy style of wrestling that's all about hard hitting, high impact move after high impact move. That may be the day I stop watching wrestling. There's no way I could ever be sold on that style of wrestling.

Then again the WWE did manage to revert itself from the fast paced, brawling style they carried in the Attitude Era back to the old school, more technical side by 2000 (while they were still in the Attitude Era) and by the time the Attitude Era ended, the only time we got those brawling type matches was when it was needed i.e. in matches like HIAC, street fights etc. So in the mean time I'm keeping my fingers crosed that WWE sticks to their more traditional style of wrestling and of course you will always have wrestlers adding a little spice of their characters into their matches such as Ziggler.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitlick said:


> *NWA 28/7/89*
> Terry Funk vs Scott Hall
> **3/4
> 
> ...


Hell yes. One of my fav matches of all time. I remember watching this live with my Dad who likes Funk and I was rooting for Flair. I was 9. Good times haha.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Got some PPVs come through the post today so I'm going to just give some snowflakes out and just brief opinions on them. I picked one at random and chose Vengeance 2005, so here we go.

*Vengeance 2005*

*Intercontinental Championship* 
_Carlito (C) vs. Shelton Benjamin_
**1/2 - Match came off quite boring to be honest, you would expect more from these two 

*Singles Match*
_Victoria (C) vs. Christy Hemme_
* - Meh

*Singles Match*
_Kane vs. Edge w/ Lita_
***1/4 - Wasn't an amazing match in terms of quality, but it was definitely fun to watch, Coach is hilarious on commentary as well

*The Wrestlemania Rematch*
_Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle_
****3/4 - Preferred this over their WM match by a fair bit, should definitely watch this if you havent already

*WWE Championship - Triple Threat*
_John Cena (c) vs. Christian vs. Chris Jericho_
****

*World Heavyweight Championship - Hell In A Cell*
_Batista (c) vs. Triple H_
****1/4​
Overall, I would definitely recomend this PPV to anybody. Two strong MOTY contenders in the form of HBK/Angle and Batista/HHH, along with two solid matches in the Triple Threat and Kane/Edge. Carlito vs. Shelton could have been more on a different day, I just wasn't that in to it, whilst the Victoria/Christy match was nothing special whatsoever and definitely a pissbreak. I'd say, overall, the PPV gets a solid **** - ****1/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho Summerslam 2000*
First off I'd just like to say that I remember the build for this match as if it were yesterday. I'll never forget that night I sat there on the floor (as I always watched wrestling back then, eyes glued onto the TV) wondering if Jericho was dead after Benoit attacked him and slammed the gate on him. I believe it was this feud that really turned be into a Jerichoholic becuase I just found it damn funny when he called Benoit a jackass. This was a match I wanted to see really badly at the time, but didn't have PPV thus couldn't see it. Well here we are 12 years later and my wish as a 5 year old has finally been granted.

Now onto the match. This is a great match. First off, if the words 2 out of 3 falls means nothing but chain wrestling go ahead and give this match ***1/2 while you're at it (I'm looking at you the Dave Meltzer's of the world) but this is a match between two men who HATE each other. Who has time to feel out the other? Right off the bat the match goes into a brawl. Jericho pummels away at Benoit on the outside and Benoit rebounds by slamming Jericho into the post. A well placed shoulder breaker sets the pace for the night and within the early minutes of the match fall 1 goes to Benoit as Jericho taps out to the crippler cross face.

This match was built around Benoit damaging the shoulder of Jericho. Every german suplex Benoit hit, he applied the weight on the left shoulder of Jericho. When Jericho would hit a move, he would the shoulder immediately after. Jericho successfully attempts the Walls of Jericho after trying to turn Benoit over with his injured shoulder. Fall number 2 goes to Jericho.

A couple more minutes and the two men are going at it, Benoit attacking the shoulder. Jericho trying to recover it after hitting Benoit with every that he has. The match ends with Jericho attempting to pin Benoit but at this point there's no strength left in the shoulder. Benoit reverses it, uses the rope for leverage and boy oh boy was a beats of a match this was. Just pure intensity and amazing psychology.

******


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Disagree about the Flair/Steamboat matches not holding up over the years. It's been a while since I've seen them but the last time I did they still had the all-time classic feel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ownage™ said:


> Disagree about the Flair/Steamboat matches not holding up over the years. It's been a while since I've seen them but the last time I did they still had the all-time classic feel.


Absolutely agree. Doesn't matter WHEN certain classic matches took place for me, they are still classics. Someone mentioned about Bret/Austin from WM 13 and how it was awesome at the time but we saw matches like that every week on Raw or whatever not too long after. True, we saw plenty more "hardcore" style matches on TV not too long after that, but NONE of them even came close to being as brilliantly executed as Bret/Austin which is what keeps it on such a high level after all these years. The style of Flair/Steamboat might be seen on a much more regular basis today or whatever, but do any of them really begin to compare? Nope. THAT is what keeps classic matches classics. They do what they do better than other matches that try to do the same.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yup, although I kind of agree with that guy about Bret/Austin. Not because matches got more hardcore over the years though, WM 13 just never struck me as one of the best matches in company history. I should probably watch it again but every time I've seen it I thought it was a fantastic match but short of true top 10 WWE matches like Taker/Michaels in the Cell, Bret/Owen at Mania, HHH/Foley at the Rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ownage™ said:


> Yup, although I kind of agree with that guy about Bret/Austin. Not because matches got more hardcore over the years though, WM 13 just never struck me as one of the best matches in company history. I should probably watch it again but every time I've seen it I thought it was a fantastic match but short of true top 10 WWE matches like Taker/Michaels in the Cell, Bret/Owen at Mania, HHH/Foley at the Rumble.


I also agree that it isn't THE best match in the company's history (though I ranked it at '#12 and it ended up placing #1 overall in the poll some of us did ) but its still an incredible match with a great build up and feud attached to it and the ever memorable finish as both an image (blood pouring down Austin's face before he passes out) and a huge moment in the company (Austin becoming a babyface while Bret turns heel at the same time which began imo the boom period for the WWF).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I've tried to love it like everybody else does but failed. I'd like to see that poll.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The top 100 WWF/E Poll results looked like this:



Spoiler: list



#100: Finlay v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 5/5/06 (154 points)



#99: Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit - RAW, 5/3/04 (159 points)



#98: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Judgment Day, 5/22/05 (167 points)



#97: Edge v Matt Hardy (Cage Match) - Unforgiven, 9/18/05 (170 points)



#96: Rockers v Orient Express - Royal Rumble, 1/19/91 (174 points)



#95: Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble, 1/19/92 (178 points)



#94: Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin v HHH, Ric Flair, Randy Orton & Batista - RAW, 4/12/04 (179 points)



#93: Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin v Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith - RAW, 5/26/97 (180 points; one top 20 vote)



#92: Edge v Mick Foley (Hardcore Match) - Wrestlemania 22, 4/2/06 (187 points)



#91: Edge v Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - Summerslam, 8/17/08 (190 points; one top 20 vote)



#90: Shelton Benjamin v Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho v Kane v Christian v Edge (Money in the Bank Ladder Match) - Wrestlemania 21, 4/3/05 (194 points)



#89: Edge & Christian v The Hardy Boys v The Dudley Boys (TLC Match) - Summerslam, 8/27/00 (196 points; one top 10 vote)



#88: Shawn Michaels v Kurt Angle - Vengeance, 6/26/05 (197 points)



#87: Ric Flair v Randy Savage - Wrestlemania 8, 4/5/92 (200 points)



#86: Bret Hart v 123 Kid - RAW, 7/11/94 (201 points; one top 20 vote)



#85: The Rock v Brock Lesnar - Summerslam, 8/25/02 (204 points; one top 20 vote)



#84: Undertaker v Mankind - In Your House 15: Revenge of the Taker, 4/20/97 (205 points; one top 20 vote)



#83: Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) - No Mercy, 10/5/08 (208 points)



#82: HHH v Batista v Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho v Edge v Randy Orton (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution, 1/9/05 (212 points)



#81: Bret Hart v Roddy Piper - Wrestlemania 8, 4/5/92 (211 points)



#80: Rockers v Brainbusters - MSG, 1/23/89 (214 points; one top 20 vote)



#79: Christian v Jack Swagger - ECW, 2/24/09 (218 points; one top 20 vote)



#78: Chris Benoit v William Regal - Velocity, 7/16/05 (221 points)



#77: Bob Backlund v Ken Patera (Texas Death Match) - MSG, 5/19/80 (232 points; one top 10 vote)



#76: Undertaker v Batista - Wrestlemania, 4/1/07 (235 points)



#75: Shawn Michaels v Bret Hart (Ironman Match) - Wrestlemania 12, 3/31/96 (240 points; one top 5 vote)



#74: John Cena v Shawn Michaels - RAW, 4/23/07 (243 points)



#73: John Cena v John Bradshaw Layfield (I Quit Match) - Judgment Day, 5/22/05 (247 points)



#72: The Rock v HHH - Backlash, 4/30/00 (248 points)



#71: Shawn Michaels v HHH (Street Fight) - Summerslam, 8/25/02 (251 points; one top 5 vote)



=#70: Bret Hart v Diesel - Royal Rumble, 1/22/95 (252 points; one top 20 vote)



=#70: Shawn Michaels v HHH - RAW, 12/29/03 (252 points)



#68: Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble, 1/21/01 (256 points; one top 10 vote)



#67: Edge v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 24, 3/30/08 (262 points)



#66: Bob Backlund v Adrian Adonis - MSG, 1/18/82 (263 points; one top 10 vote)



=#65: The Rock v Hollywood Hogan - Wrestleania 18, 3/18/02 (267 points; one top 10 vote)

=#65: Rey Mysterio v Chris Jericho - The Bash, 6/28/09 (267 points)



#63: Bret Hart v Davey Boy Smith - Summerslam, 8/29/92 (273 points; one top 20 vote)



#62: Kurt Angle v Brock Lesnar - Summerslam, 8/24/03 (274 points)



=#61: Shawn Michaels v Diesel (No Holds Barred Match) - In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies, 4/28/96 (278 points; one top 20 vote)

=#61: Steve Austin v HHH (3 Stages of Hell) - No Way Out, 2/25/01 (278 points; one top 5 vote; one top 10 vote)



#59: Bret Hart v Undertaker - One Night Only, 9/20/97 (283 points)



#58: The Rock v Chris Jericho - No Mercy, 10/21/01 (288 points)



#57: Undertaker v Kurt Angle - Smackdown!, 9/4/03 (292 points; one #3 vote)



=#56: Undertaker v Mankind (Hell in a Cell) - King of the Ring, 6/28/98 (295 points)

=#56: Shawn Michaels v Jeff Jarrett - In Your House 2: Lumberjacks, 7/23/95 (295 points)



#54: Bret Hart v Owen Hart (Cage Match) - Summerslam, 8/29/94 (298 points; one top 20 vote)



#53: The Rock v Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 19, 3/30/03 (309 points)



#52: The Rock v Undertaker v Kurt Angle - Vengeance, 7/21/02 (312 points)



#51: Cactus Jack, The Rock, Rikishi, Brian Christopher & Scott Taylor v HHH, X-Pac, Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko - RAW, 2/7/00 (318 points; one top 20 vote)



#50: HHH v Batista (Hell in a Cell) - Vengeance, 6/26/05 (322 points)



#49: Hardy Boys v Dudley Boys v Edge & Christian v Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit (TLC III) - Smackdown!, 5/23/01 (326 points)



#48: Ric Flair v HHH (Cage Match) - Taboo Tuesday, 11/1/05 (334 points; one top 10 vote)



#47: Bret Hart v Mr. Perfect - Summerslam, 8/26/91 (351 points)



#46: Bob Backlund v Sgt. Slaughter (Cage Match) - Philly Spectrum, 3/21/81 (363 points; two top 10 votes)



#45: Kurt Angle v Brock Lesnar (Ironman Match) - Smackdown!, 9/18/03 (364 points; one top 20 vote)



#44: Bob Backlund v Sgt. Slaughter - MSG, 1/10/81 (367 points; one top 5 vote; two top 20 votes)



#43: Randy Orton v Mick Foley (Hardcore Match) - Backlash, 4/18/04 (370 points)



#42: The Rock v HHH (Ironman Match) - Judgment Day, 5/21/00 (374 points)



#41: Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Brian Pillman, Jim Neidhart & Davey Boy Smith v Steve Austin, Goldust, Ken Shamrock, Hawk & Animal - In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede, 7/6/97 (376 points; one top 20 vote)



=#40: John Cena v Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23, 4/1/07 (388 points; one top 20 vote)

=#40: Chris Benoit v William Regal - No Mercy, 10/8/06 (388 points; one top 20 vote)



#38: Shawn Michaels v Ric Flair - Wrestlemania 24, 3/30/08 (415 points)



#37: Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania 19, 3/30/03 (420 points; two top 20 votes)



#36: Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) - Summerslam, 8/27/95 (431 points; one top 20 vote)



#35: Bret Hart v Davey Boy Smith - In Your House 5: Season's Beatings, 12/17/95 (435 points)



#34: Bret Hart v Vader v Steve Austin v Undertaker - In Your House 13: Final Four 2/16/97 (440 points; one top 5 vote)



#33: Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) - Royal Rumble, 1/21/01 (474 points; one top 20 vote)



#32: Steve Austin v Dude Love - Over The Edge, 5/31/98 (480 points; one top 20 vote)



#31: HHH v Chris Jericho (Last Man Standing Match) - Fully Loaded, 7/23/00 (487 points; one top 20 vote)



#30: Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle v Edge & Rey Mysterio - No Mercy, 10/20/02 (495 points; one top 20 vote)



#29: Sgt. Slaughter v Iron Sheik (Boot Camp Match) - MSG, 6/16/84 (512 points; one #3 vote; two top 20 vote)



#28: Undertaker v Brock Lesnar (Hell in a Cell) - No Mercy, 10/20/02 (525 points; one top 10 vote; one top 20 vote)



#27: Chris Benoit v Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble, 1/19/03 (530 points; two top 10 votes)



#26: Shawn Michaels v Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 21, 4/3/05 (534 points; three top 20 votes)



#25: John Cena v Umaga (Last Man Standing Match) - Royal Rumble, 1/28/07 (542 points; four top 20 votes)



#24: Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit v Steve Austin & HHH - RAW, 5/21/01 (547 points; one #1 vote; two top 20 votes)



#23: Owen Hart v Davey Boy Smith - RAW, 3/1/97 (590 points; one top 20 vote)



=#22: Ultimate Warrior v Randy Savage (Retirement Match) - Wrestlemania 7, 3/24/91 (594 points; two top 20 votes)


=#22: Bob Backlund v Greg Valentine - MSG, 2/19/79 (594 points; one #3 vote; one top 10 vote; two top 20 votes)



#20: Eddie Guerrero v Brock Lesnar - No Way Out, 2/15/04 (613 points; three top 20 votes)



#19: Shawn Michaels v Undertaker (Streak v Career Match) - Wrestlemania 26, 3/28/10 (621 points; two #2 votes; one top 20 vote)



#18: Eddie Guerrero v JBL - Judgment Day, 5/16/04 (635 points; one top 10 vote; one top 20 vote)



#17: The Undertaker v Kurt Angle - No Way Out, 2/19/06 (645 points; three top 20 votes)



#16: Steve Austin v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 5/31/01 (658 points; two top 20 votes)



#15: Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit v HHH - Wrestlemania 20, 3/14/04 (665 points; one #3 vote; two top 10 votes; one top 20 vote)



#14: Finlay v Chris Benoit - Judgment Day, 5/21/06 (672 points; one top 10 vote; three top 20 votes)



#13: Randy Savage v Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania 3, 3/29/87 (690 points; two top 5 votes)



#12: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Smackdown!, 6/23/05 (692 points; one top 10 vote; four top 20 votes)



#11: Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) - Wrestlemania, 3/20/94 (804 points; one top 5 vote; three top 10 votes)



#10: Bret Hart v Mr. Perfect - King of the Ring, 6/13/93 (886 points; one top 5 vote; three top 10 votes; one top 20 vote)



#9: Bret Hart v Steve Austin - Survivor Series, 11/17/96 (895 points; one top 5 vote; three top 10 votes; two top 20 votes)



#8: Shawn Michaels v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25, 4/5/09 (920 points; one #2 vote; one #3 vote; one top 10 vote; two top 20 votes)



#7: HHH v Cactus Jack (Street Fight) - Royal Rumble, 1/23/00 (924 points; one #1 vote; one top 5 vote; one top 10 vote; four top 20 votes)



=#6: Bret Hart v Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X, 3/20/94 (1014 points; one #2 vote; four top 5 votes; one top 10 vote; two top 20 votes)

=#6: Steve Austin v Kurt Angle - Summerslam, 8/19/01 (1014 points; one # 1 vote; five top 10 votes; two top 20 votes)



#4: Steve Austin v The Rock - Wrestlemania 17, 4/1/01 (1030 points; one #1 vote; one #2 vote; two top 10 votes; three top 20 votes)



#3: Shawn Michaels v Mankind - In Your House 10: Mind Games, 9/22/96 (1096 points; one #2 vote; two #3 votes; one top 5 vote; two top 10 votes; two top 20 votes)



#2: Shawn Michaels v Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - In Your House 18: Bad Blood, 10/5/97 (1172 points; four #1 votes; one #2 vote; one top 5 vote; one top 10 vote; one top 20 vote)



#1: Bret Hart v Steve Austin (Submission Match) - Wrestlemania 13, 3/23/97 (1198 points; one #1 vote; two # 2 votes; two #3 votes; one top 5 vote; two top 10 votes; one top 20 vote)



And we just finished up a WCW one last week too, and have started on a top 100 matches of the decade: 2000-2009 today .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yo KC, what do I have to do to become a part of this list ? I could whip one of those lists up in a week TOPS. I won't even fill it with random HHH matches... I promise


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A week? We spent an entire YEAR putting together a list. And then another for WCW.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, I mean as in I have a HUGEEE backlog of reviews here, mostly from 2000-present. The only issue with that, is that they are mostly PPV reviews. I have a majority of PPV's from 00-09 covered, but this obviously dosen't cover the VAST amount of TV matches that are out there. 

So what would it be? Watching every match from 2000-2009 on both TV/PPV, not including random house show matches, or would it be more of a big list of fantastic TV/House show matches that could be distributed as required watching for those who were interested in putting together a list. However long it takes, I'm down with making a top 100.

The only thing I ask KC, is a list(dosen't matter how long, if it takes a year it takes a year) of required matches to watch so that I CAN make an efficient list. I SO want in on this.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Taker/Michaels HIAC 1997 is the best match in WWE for me. It's wither that or Taker/Michaels WM 25 (Didn't really dig their match at 26 though). But damn I loved that HIAC match so much to me, it remains the best HIAC match in the company. I never really found Foley vs Taker to be that great outside of those 2 bumps I have the match only at ***3/4, which is still a good rating but Taker vs HBK is no doubt *****.

Oh yeah and I know the brawling style of Austin/Bret soon became the norm and even the norm on it's best night couldn't hold a candle compare to Austin/Bret but personally, the match just never really had that moment. I know a lot of people will cite Austin's pool of blood in the sharpshooter but like I said, how many times have *I* seen Austin in a pool of blood before watching it. The match is without a doubt a classic and will forever be one but I don't know why after 3 viewings I've never seen anything worthy enough to increase my rating of ****1/2.

The funny thing is though the more that i think of the match as I type and picture it in my head is the more I wanna say "Aww to hell with it *****" but I'm pretty sure if I go and look at it now, I'll be thinking "Nah ****1/2" as I have done in the past lol

I'm down for a list of the top 100 TV matches as well. Man, this thread has become my favourite in the last few months (but jeez is it dead), why the heck was I never posting in here from the day I joined?

BTW is that Backlund vs Valentine match from 1979, the hour match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Unfortunately we don't really know you well enough to invite you to join in on a poll. Nothing personal, but the people I do this with are a group of guys I've spent a good few years getting to know (in terms of their wrestling opinions/knowledge etc and personal stuff... though sometimes I wish I could remove some of the person stuff... choking cripple girls during sex? Argh...), and while I don't always agree with them (HIAC 97 is the greatest WWF/E Match ever Mike... bastard) I respect their opinions more than the average forum member and that makes doing these polls so much fun. What was I saying? Oh yeah, uhhh, sorry, can't join in . Nothing stopping you from doing it yourself though lol. Just a case of watching as much wrestling from 00-09 in any promotion and seeing what you like the best. That's what we'll be doing for the most part. Sometimes some of the best matches might be ones we've never seen or even heard of before so there isn't a definitive list of matches to watch before we get started or anything, we just dive into what we have access to and go from there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No man it's cool, maybe in a few years and after many, many posts I can contribute in some way, shape or form. I completely get what you're saying though. I think I might take a year to do my own personal top 100 PPV matches from 00-09, as that would be most interesting.

Might take me a few months-year to make this great. There are over 130 PPVS from 00-09, so if I watched 2-3 PPV's a week, I MIGHT get it done in a year. This will be my first attempt at something of this magnitude, and hopefully if I finish, I can post my list here in comparison to yours, and we can see how they stack up. Most interesting.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> No man it's cool, maybe in a few years and after many, many posts I can contribute in some way, shape or form. I completely get what you're saying though. I think I might take a year to do my own personal top 100 PPV matches from 00-09, as that would be most interesting.
> 
> Might take me a few months-year to make this great. There are over 130 PPVS from 00-09, so if I watched 2-3 PPV's a week, I MIGHT get it done in a year. This will be my first attempt at something of this magnitude, and hopefully if I finish, I can post my list here in comparison to yours, and we can see how they stack up. Most interesting.


That is a really fun idea. I need to make more lists of fav matches. I made a list of my top 25 fav In Your House matches a few weeks ago. It's written down somewhere.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Macho, I'd love to see that list. If it's in order, even better. Gonna take a stab in the dark and say that HIAC I is numero uno on the list. Hope there's some love for the Canadian Stampede tag match. Fucking LOVE that match with a passion.

Hell, maybe we can do a dual project sometime, just hit me up homie.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I didn't rank them (which is very unlike me) but it was just what I'd want to see on a WWE DVD In Your House set. Which should have come out 5 years ago. I put the list on here but Ill try and find it. 

As for my fav? Tough to say. The Mind Games match with HBK/Foley was so badass. I also really love the main event of Canadian Stampede. Just rewatched that the other day when I watched the Brian Pillman set and the crowd was so loud for that match. God they hated Austin. 

Of course HiaC with HBK/Taker was classic. HBK got beat the hell up. I have a buddy who went to that PPV and he rubs it in my face whenever HiaC comes up. He also went to Survivor Series 1998 which is one of my all time fav PPVs. 

Im down for some sort of project dude. Message me with some ideas? I have wanted to make a list of the best WWF/WWE PPVs ever for a long ass time. I want to work on my PPV DVD collection. My compilation collection is getting pretty solid. I'm up to 45 now. Most used off of Amazon. Only ones I have paid full price for is the new Rock one, the new Austin one and the Macho Man set.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Talking about "holding up," I don't think there is any better pure wrestling match, bar WrestleWar 1989, that holds up more than Owen/Bret from WrestleMania X. It's an evergreen match.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Pretty shocked that Cena/Punk from MITB didn't make the cut. The best non Mania match ive seen in years.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
That list was completed in 2010. If we did it again this year I'm sure it would be on there along with Taker/HHH WM27.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> BTW is that Backlund vs Valentine match from 1979, the hour match?


Aye, one of the best hour long matches ever and quite easy to sit through IMO (though I'm a huge fan of Backlund so like Flair I can always watch their longer matches and not get bored unlike if I watched someone like HHH for the same length of time).

Match has an awesome story of Valentine trying umpteen ways to lock on the figure four only for Backlund to repeately have a counter, feels like a very organic sense of parity with both men being able to take the advantage but never control for extended periods due to their ability. Comes across as more natural and less choreographed as well which always helps. Some freakish feats of strength by Backlund as well unless I'm thinking of a different match, something along the lines of a deadlift full nelson.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Macho, I'd love to see that list. If it's in order, even better. Gonna take a stab in the dark and say that HIAC I is numero uno on the list. Hope there's some love for the Canadian Stampede tag match. Fucking LOVE that match with a passion.
> 
> Hell, maybe we can do a dual project sometime, just hit me up homie.


Here is the wish list I made for a Best of In Your House....

Bret Hart v Hakushi (IYH 1)

HBK v Jeff Jarrett (IYH 2...HBK wins the IC title)

Davey Boy Smith v Bam Bam Bigelow (IYH 3)

Diesel & HBK v Yokozuna & Davey Boy Smith (IYH 3)

Bret Hart v Davey Boy Smith (IYH 5)

HBK V Owen Hart (IYH 6)

Bret Hart v Diesel (IYH 6)

Vader v Razor Ramon (IYH 7) 

HBK v Diesel (IYH 7)....This is the only ppv I have ever been to in person....awesome dark matches with Taker over Foley, HHH over Mero and Savio vega over Steve effing Austin which was before their awesome strap match which leads me to.... 

Savio Vega v Steve Austin (IYH 8...strap match)

Undertaker v Goldust (IYH 10)

HBK v Mankind (IYH 10)...yes this is on a few dvds but it's an amazing match

Steve Austin v HHH (IYH 11)

Undertaker v Mankind (IYH 11...buried alive match) 

Sycho Sid v Bret Hart (IYH 12)

Bret Hart v Steve Austin v Vader v Undertaker (IYH 13....four corners elimination match for the winged eagle at the height of the Hart/Austin rivalry....LOVE this one) 

Undertaker v Mankind (IYH 14)

Steve Austin v Bret Hart (IYH 14)

Ken Shamrock v Vader (IYH 15)

Bret Hart/Jim Neidhart/Owen Hart/ Davey Boy Smith/ Brian Pillman v Steve Austin/Ken Shamrock/Goldust/Road Warriors (IYH 16)....fantastic match) 

Owen Hart v Faarooq (IYH 18)...Owen wins the vacant IC title 

HBK v Undertaker (IYH 18)...the original Hell in a Cell

New Age Outlaws v Road Warriors (IYH 19)

Undertaker v Kane (IYH 21)....one of my fav Taker/Kane match

Steve Austin v Dude Love (IYH 22)...also known as Over the Edge

Undertaker v Kane v Steve Austin (IYH 24...kind of a clusterfuck but I like the ending with Austin running down McMahon) 

Val Venis v Goldust (IYH 25...you got to throw Venis in there) 

HHH v X-Pac (IYH 28)

Taker V Shamrock (IYH 28) 

Austin v Rock (IYH 28...last ever In Your House match...tear)


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

:lmao A segment with Regal and Rancid plz.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

What do you guys think is the best ppv of 2001? Am going to watch some 01 ppv's. Watched Wrestlemania 17 again this weekend and I still think this show is pretty overrated, it is a fun show but match quality wise not the best Wrestlemania at all. Benoit/Angle was nothing special, did not really like Taker/HHH. Rock/Austin was a good mainevent and I personally liked the ending. The flow and athosphere of this show makes it good but there are defiantly better mania's


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Either RR or Backlash would be the best PPV of 01 for me.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*HHH vs HBK - RAW Dec. 2003*
Wow, probably one of my favourite matches. Although, I'm pretty sure you have to be covering your opponent for it to be a pinfall, Eric...

Also this match got me thinking, best friends usually have good chemistry so why wasn't it the same for Cena and Orton? Bit odd.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

KingCal said:


> Either RR or Backlash would be the best PPV of 01 for me.


Cool, thanks getting Backlash/Judgement Day 01 and KOTR/Invasion 01 tomorrow. Looking forward to watching Backlash 01 because I really don't remember to much from the event except two man powertrip.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Cool, thanks getting Backlash/Judgement Day 01 and KOTR/Invasion 01 tomorrow. Looking forward to watching Backlash 01 because I really don't remember to much from the event except two man powertrip.


Its just a really fun event all around.

Opening 6 man is pure fun and a good basic tag match.

Rhyno Vs Raven is a crazy fun hardcore match. Spot with the GORE and a Shopping Cart is awesome.

Regal Vs Jericho... is alright. Don't remember it being anything that special unfortunately. Didn't really think Regal hit his stride in WWE until a couple of years later.

Benoit Vs Angle 30 minute ultimate submission match (aka submission iron man match lol) is probably my favourite match between them and up there as their absolute best too (not a big fan of some of their bouts).

Shane Vs Big Show LMS is just a crazy fun "lets kill Shane McMahon" match.

Matt Vs Eddie Vs Christian isn't that good, but its short. If this would have happened in 2005 it probably would have been epic tbh.

Power Trip Vs BOD is one of my all time favourite tag matches. Love how they work over Kane's injured arm and how Undertaker is reluctant to even tag him into the match despite the fact he knows he can't do it alone. Screw the hates of this match (ANDY. MIKE. Everyone else... you know who you are! ).


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

KingCal said:


> Its just a really fun event all around.
> 
> Opening 6 man is pure fun and a good basic tag match.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts on the show! Also looking forward to rewatching KOTR 01, Shane/Angle was pretty good and I remember the triple threat main event being pretty good aswell. Invasion 2001 was a pretty bad show iirc?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Thanks for your thoughts on the show! Also looking forward to rewatching KOTR 01, Shane/Angle was pretty good and I remember the triple threat main event being pretty good aswell. Invasion 2001 was a pretty bad show iirc?


KOTR suffers like most KOTR PPV's with the tournament matches all having to be relatively short so they can get them all on the show AND stop the 2 guys going all the way from knackering themselves out. And with that, the matches for the most part never really get the chance to get going. Street fight with Shane and Angle is great though. Not a fan of the triple threat personally.

InVasion was fun to me:

E&C Vs Awesome & Storm is just a decent opener and not much else. Fun, but nothing special.

Earl Vs Patrick is what it is .

APA Vs Palumbo & O'Haire is pretty good imo. Always enjoyed the APA as a team and I liked O'Haire a lot.

Kidman Vs X-Pac is a decent little CW match.

Raven Vs Regal kinda sucks.

6 man tag is only about 4 minutes long and is a bunch of fun. Love the big power spot with all the WWF guys overhead pressing their opponents at the same time.

Tajiri Vs Tazz kinda sucks. Shame because I just watched a 5 minute TV match between them in ECW and it was super fun.

RVD Vs Jeff is great imo. One of the better hardcore title matches, and so much better than their utter shit train wreck of a ladder match they would go on to have at SummerSlam.

Trish & Lita Vs Stacy & Torrie. 4 super hot women trying to strip each other. Its worth a watch .

Main event tag is great. Plenty of star power, a great crowd, lots of action and shocking finish (took me by complete surprise at the time lol).

Overall the show isn't filled with great matches as such, but its the first WWF Vs WCW/ECW show and was really for the most part all about the main event anyway. Rest of the card suffers a little from time constraints and they put too many matches on the show. Take out Regal Vs Raven, Tazz Vs Tajiri, Earl Vs Patrick and give that time to the two two-on-two tag matches and the show would probably have been a hell of a lot better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingCal said:


> KOTR suffers like most KOTR PPV's with the tournament matches all having to be relatively short so they can get them all on the show AND stop the 2 guys going all the way from knackering themselves out. And with that, the matches for the most part never really get the chance to get going. Street fight with Shane and Angle is great though. Not a fan of the triple threat personally.
> 
> InVasion was fun to me:
> 
> ...


Is that the one from September 3rd, 1999 ? That match was short but sweet. LOVED ECW Tazz with a passion, so much raw intensity brought to his matches.

Speaking of ECW, I'm starting to watch the John Morrison DVD (yeah, I know...) and I absolutely adored his series with Punk. WWEECW was fucking awesome, I remember the first couple of years when we were treated to TV matches such as Show vs Flair, RVD vs Angle, RVD vs Holly (Violent), there was always an extreme rules match to satisfy the audience, and the young guns such as CM Punk got significant air time as well.

That begs the question... Was there ever a time that WWEECW was the best show in the company ? I mean, they used to have some EXTREMELY action packed shows that lasted only an hour, and alot of times left you wanting more and more. I know Smackdown was the undisputed leader in 06, but I'm unsure of the other 3 years. Hmmmm. Thoughts ?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Re-watched HHH/Taker from WM 27 to get pumped for the rematch in a couple weeks. If they can get close to this level at 28 we'll be in for something special because this really was worthy of headlining Mania. Loved the opening stages. Triple H throws some of the best punches of anyone on the roster and that's evident in the early going. Liked how they set the tone for a physical war early with some gnarly bumps (omg @ the back drop Hunter took off the announce table) and big spots (spinebuster through the table was dope). The main criticism I've heard is that the bulk of the match was just finishers and down time but the punishment they dished out early made the slow pace realistic and in turn emphasized the story that this was Taker's toughest test at Mania and the biggest beating he's ever taken. The slow build also did a nice job of setting up HHH's Tombstone which after three viewings I maintain is the best nearfall I've ever seen. The finish is excellent too. At the time I would've preferred if HHH passed out instead of tapped out to go with the I'll end the streak or die trying schtick but what they did makes this year's rematch much more viable. Awesome heavyweight clash on the biggest stage, bring on Hell in a Cell.

****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Is that the one from September 3rd, 1999 ? That match was short but sweet. LOVED ECW Tazz with a passion, so much raw intensity brought to his matches.
> 
> Speaking of ECW, I'm starting to watch the John Morrison DVD (yeah, I know...) and I absolutely adored his series with Punk. WWEECW was fucking awesome, I remember the first couple of years when we were treated to TV matches such as Show vs Flair, RVD vs Angle, RVD vs Holly (Violent), there was always an extreme rules match to satisfy the audience, and the young guns such as CM Punk got significant air time as well.
> 
> That begs the question... Was there ever a time that WWEECW was the best show in the company ? I mean, they used to have some EXTREMELY action packed shows that lasted only an hour, and alot of times left you wanting more and more. I know Smackdown was the undisputed leader in 06, but I'm unsure of the other 3 years. Hmmmm. Thoughts ?


Aye, was the Sep 3rd match I watched.

WWECW was awesome for a period of time. 06 was fun with Big Show as the unbeatable monster champion destroying the likes of RVD, Sabu, Kane, Undertaker and Flair in brutal extreme rules matches. Then he lost the belt to Bathturd Lashley and left the company and ECW went to fucking hell with Lashley as Champ, McMahon as champ, Morrison as champ, Chavo as champ... and for the most part in 07 and 08 I thought it was pretty shitty outside of a couple of guys. Then towards the end of 08 Henry was doing well as champ, Hardy was doing great when he won the belt, Jack Swagger appeared on the scene and quickly became champ going into 09 which brought about the return of Christian who would put on great matches with almost everyone he faced (thought the Ryder matches sucked though). We had Regal and Goldust as two old time veterans putting on great matches with the young talent and helping them improve and get over. Sheamus got his start there in a series with Goldust. Zeke actually looked really good in 2010 with the matches with Christian, just a shame they never really tried to do much else with him (and when they did try it didn't look like they were trying hard lol). But as good as it was in 09, I still think SD had them beat, especially with the Summer period they had (Punk, Jericho, Mysterio, Morrison who was actually doing well, Undertaker etc). Was better than Raw was in 09 though. Fuck was that show horrible.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk, Morrison, Mysterio, Jericho and Hardy had some ridiculously awesome TV matches in '09 on Smackdown. I actually stopped watching wrestling in '09 but I went back and watched that stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Totally just realised that I've talked about the top 100 WCW poll some of us just completed, but never posted the actual list . I'm sure some people might be interested in seeing it. Plus I'm turning it into a DVD Comp soon enough.



Spoiler: WE's Top 100 WCW Matches Ever



#100 Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (144 points)

#99 Ric Flair Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 20/05/1996 (146 points)

#98 Kidman Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Juventud Guerrera - Starrcade 27/12/1998 (148 points)

=#97 Sting Vs Rick Rude - Clash Of The Champions XVII 19/11/1991 (154 points)

=#97 Arn Anderson Vs Shane Douglas - World Championship Wrestling 17/02/1990 (154 points)

=#97 Arn Anderson Vs Ricky Steamboat - Pro 21/03/1992 (154 points)

#94 Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham - Saturday Night 03/10/1992 (155 points)

#93 Arn Anderson Vs Great Muta - Power Hour 12/01/1990 (157 points)

#92 Chris Jeircho Vs Ultimo Dragon - Bash At The Beach 13/07/1997 (158 points, One top 20 vote)

=#91 Nasty Boys Vs Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne - SuperBrawl 20/02/1994 (161 points)

=#91 Midnight Express Vs Original Midnight Express - Starrcade 26/12/1988 (161 points)

#89 Rey Mysterio Vs Super Calo - Fall Brawl 16/06/1996 (169 points, One top 20 vote)

#88 Chris Benoit Vs 2 Cold Scorpio - Superbrawl III 21/02/1993 (173 points)

#87 Bam Bam Bigelow Vs Hak - Spring Stampede 11/04/1999 (186 points, One top 15 vote)

#86 Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996 (192 points)

#85 Brian Pillman Vs Scotty Flamingo - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (195 points)

#84 Lord Steven Regal Vs Fit Finlay - Nitro 29/04/1996 (197 points)

#83 Steve Austin Vs Ricky Steamboat - Bash at the Beach 17/07/1994 (200 points)

#82 Ric Flair Vs Brian Pillman - 17/02/1990 (203 points)

=#81 Wrath & Mortis v Glacier & Ernest Miller - Bash at the Beach 13/07/1997 (206 points)

=#81 Vader Vs Ricky Steamboat - Worldwide 29/05/1993 (206 points)

#79 Rey Mysterio Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - Starrcade 29/12/1996 (210 points)

=#78 Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993 (214, One top 15 vote)

=#78 Chris Benoit Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 04/10/1999 (214 points, One top 15 vote)

#76 Arn Anderson/Ric Flair/Lex Luger/Sting Vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/Sting - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996 (216 points)

#75 Brian Pillman Vs Jushin Liger - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992 (220 points)

#74 Ric Flair & Barry Windham Vs The Midnight Express - Clash of the Champions 07/12/1988 (222 points)

#73 Lex Luger Vs Ricky Steamboat - Great American Bash 23/07/1989 (228 points)

#72 Cactus Jack Vs Paul Orndorff - Superbrawl III 12/02/1993 (232 points)

#71 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of Champions XXVIII 28/08/1994 (236 points, One top 20 vote)

#70 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash Of The Champions XX 02/09/1992 (246 points)

#69 Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 17/09/1995 (247 points, One top 15 vote)

#68 Chris Benoit Vs Diamond Dallas Page - SuperBrawl 22/02/1998 (250 points)

#67 Scott Hall & Kevin Nash Vs Randy Savage/Lex Luger/Sting - Bash At The Beach 07/07/1996 (253 points)

#66 Rick Rude Vs Dustin Rhodes - Worldwide 30/05/1992 (254 points)

#65 Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992 (258 points)

#64 Vader Vs Davey Boy Smith - Slamboree 23/05/1993 (272 points)

#63 Sting Vs Cactus Jack - Power Hour 16/11/1991 (273 points)

#62 Vader Vs The Boss - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (274 points, One top 20 vote)

#61 Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan Vs The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (281 points, One top 10 vote)

#60 Ric Flair Vs Sting - Great American Bash 07/07/1990 (283 points, One top 20 vote)

#59 Dustin Rhodes Vs Vader - Saturday Night 21/11/1992 (284 points)

#58 Ron Simmons Vs Vader - Main Event 02/08/1992 (286 points)

#57 Arn Anderson & Barry Windham Vs Doom - Starrcade 16/12/1990 (288 points)

#56 Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994 (292 points)

#55 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Philadelphia House Show 18/03/1989 (309 points, One top 10 vote)

#54 Lord Steven Regal Vs Sting - Great American Bash 16/06/1996 (318 points, One top 20 vote)

#53 Lord Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko - Saturday Night 28/05/1994 (319 points)

#52 Ric Flair Vs Hulk Hogan - Bash At The Beach 17/07/1994 (324 points, One top 20 vote)

#51 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (337 points, One top 5 vote)

#50 The Steiner Brothers Vs The Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 27/10/1990 (354 points, Two top 15 votes)

#49 Arn Anderson Vs Big Josh - 02/05/1992 (365 points, One top 10 vote)

#48 Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - WrestleWar 25/02/1990 (378 points)

#47 Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/Nasty Boys Vs Bunkhouse Buck/Arn Anderson/Terry Funk/Colonel Parker - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994 (383 votes, One top 15 vote)

#46 Arn Anderson Vs Barry Windham - 06/06/1992 (387 points, One top 10 vote)

#45 Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993 (390 points, One top 5 vote)

#44 Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 16/10/1995 (409 points)

#43 Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Slamboree 17/05/1998 (427 points)

#42 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 14/05/1994 (429 points, One top 5 vote)

#41 Rey Mysterio Vs Psicosis - Bash At The Beach 07/07/1996 (430 points, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#40 Ric Flair & Sting Vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 12/09/1989 (437 points)

#39 Chris Benoit Vs Kevin Sullivan - Great American Bash 16/06/1996 (443 points, Two top 20 votes)

#38 Jake Roberts Vs Dustin Rhodes - 26/09/1992 (445 points, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#37 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Landover House Show - 18/03/1989 (446 points, Two top 5 votes, Two top 15 votes)

#36 Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham Vs Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko - Superbrawl 29/02/1992 (449 points, One top 20 vote)

#35 Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999 (450 points, One top 10 vote)

#34 Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs The Steiners - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992 (466 points, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#33 Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (467 points, One top 15 vote)

#32 Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne Vs The Nasty Boys - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (475 points, One top 15 vote)

#31 Arn Anderson Vs Dustin Rhodes - Satuday Night 04/01/1992 (487 points, One top 20 vote)

#30 Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (501 points, One top 10 vote)

#29 Diamond Dallas Page Vs Randy Savage - Great American Bash 15/06/1997 (546 points, One top 15 vote)

#28 Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 23/05/1992 (551 points, One top 5 vote, One top 10 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#27 Ricky Steamboat Vs Lord Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993 (569 points, One top 5 vote)

#26 Hollywood Blondes Vs Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio - Worldwide 08/05/1993 (571 points, One top 15 vote)

#25 Lord Steven Regal Vs Fit Finlay - Uncensored 24/03/1996 (588 points, One top 5 vote, Two top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#24 Ric Flair Vs Hulk Hogan - Halloween Havoc 24/10/1994 (592 points, One top 5 vote, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#23 Sting Vs Vader - Great American Bash 12/07/1992 (602 points, Three top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#22 Rock n Roll Express Vs Midnight Express - Wrestlewar 25/02/1990 (634 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#21 Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 14/09/1997 (648 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#20 Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Larry Zbyszko/Bobby Eaton Vs Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham - Saturday Night 22/02/1992 (655 points, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes)

#19 Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas Vs Brian Pillman & Steve Austin - Starrcade 28/12/1992 (664 points, Four top 20 votes)

=#18 Sting Vs Vader - Starrcade 28/12/1992 (671 points, One top 10 vote)

=#18 Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes - Clash Of The Champions XXIX 16/11/1994 (671 points, One top 5 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#16 Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - Starrcade 26/12/1988 (677 points, One top 10 vote, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#15 Flair/Windham/Sid Vicious/Zbyszko Vs Sting/Pillman/The Steiners - Wrestlewar 24/02/1991 (691 points, Three top 10 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#14 Goldberg Vs Diamond Dallas Page - Halloween Havoc 24/10/1998 (725 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#13 Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes Vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko - Clash Of The Champions XVII 19/11/1991 (761 points, Two top 5 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#12 Sting Vs Vader - Superbrawl III 21/02/1993 (781 points, One top 5 vote, Three top 10 votes, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#11 Sting Vs Cactus Jack - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (782 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 15 vote)

#10 Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990 (793 points, Three top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#9 Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Clash Of The Champions IX 15/11/1989 (801 points, One #1 vote, Two top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#8 Ric Flair Vs Vader - Starrcade 27/12/1993 (817 points, One top 5 vote, Three top 10 votes, One top 15 votes, Three top 20 votes)

#7 Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 23/07/1989 (869 votes, Two top 5 votes, Two top 10 votes, Two top 15 votes, Two top 20 votes)

#6 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlewar 07/05/1989 (889 votes, One #1 vote, Three top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, One top 15 vote, One top 10 vote)

#5 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 20/02/1989 (940 points, One #1 vote, Four top 5 votes, Two top 10 vote, Two top 15 vote, One top 20 vote)

#4 Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham Vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko/Austin/Rude - Wrestlewar 17/05/1992 (946 points, Four top 5 votes, Six top 10 votes)

#3 Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (949 points, Two #1 votes, Four top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, Three top 15 votes)

#2 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash Of The Champions VI 02/04/1989 (951 points, Four #1 votes, Two top 5 votes, Three top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#1 Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997 (965 points, One #1 vote, Five top 5 votes, Four top 10 votes)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I just started to watch the top 100 matches in WWE (as decided by kingCal and whoever the rest of his voting buddies are) and just thought I'd give my thoughts on what I saw thus far. I'm just gonna put star ratings, not going to write a long ass review.
*
Finlay v Chris Benoit - Smackdown!, 5/5/06
*

***3/4

*Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit - RAW, 5/3/04 *

***3/4

*Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Judgment Day, 5/22/05 *

***3/4

*Edge v Matt Hardy (Cage Match) - Unforgiven, 9/18/05 *

****1/4

*Rockers v Orient Express - Royal Rumble, 1/19/91*

****

*Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble, 1/19/92 *

****

Just a little personal thoughts though. To me, Guerrero vs Mysterio doesn't strike me as one of the best matches in the WWE. It's just one of their better matches. I believe Benoit vs Jericho Summerslam 2000 is a very underrated (at least I've never heard anyone really talk about it) and should have been on the list. Nonetheless, it's not my list and if I think it's that deserving of being on a top 100 list I should go ahead and make my own damn list. But I'm too lazy. Still, KingCal I hope you got my rep that list is gonna keep me occupied for some time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The lists we made weren't all about sheer match quality, but how much we loved certain matches and whatnot too. Still think based on match quality that Eddie/Rey deserves to be there though.

Benoit/Jericho from SS was good, but didn't get a single vote from anyone . Personally I think their Backlash 00, JD 00 and RR 01 matches are a lot better.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> The lists we made weren't all about sheer match quality, but how much we loved certain matches and whatnot too. Still think based on match quality that Eddie/Rey deserves to be there though.
> 
> Benoit/Jericho from SS was good, but didn't get a single vote from anyone . Personally I think their Backlash 00, JD 00 and RR 01 matches are a lot better.


Whichever one was their submission match from 2000 was really good but I know there's one match the two of them had that I really didn't get into. It's the one where it ended with Benoit hitting Jericho with the IC title as he went for the Lionsault. Still a good match just wasn't into it as much as the other. Oh and their match at RR 01 is my personal favourite them.

But their SS match was so damn beastly. They were able to go into beat mode but were still able to know when to slow the pace down and tell a great story with Benoit working the shoulder of Jericho. I don't even think the match went more than 15 minutes but the same story other guys would have needed 30 minutes to tell these guys told it in half the time.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Imported 3 different Tagged Classics from the U.K. as soon as I heard that Region 2 DVDs work using VLC Player.










Cannot wait to see these classics, unedited. Always wanted them.


----------



## DAT SHIT CRAY BRAH (Mar 1, 2012)

what are some epic documentaries on wwe wrestlers that have unseen footage of promos etc

I've seen Stone colds latest and I have the rocks latest one on my comp somewhere but i've seen their stories countless times and pretty much already know most of their lives from the documentaries put out before, seen almost all their promos on youtube including the ones off air. so kinda bored with them


I seen randy ortons the other day, wasnt really interesting to me. they tried to keep someparts kayfabe like when he lost to cm punk and being "pissed off" telling the camera to go away..that was stupid..

Seen brock lasnaaars, his was ok.




Any other good ones??

i see a randy savage, shawn michaels, and kane one online, dunno what will be worth watching.


Is the shawn michaels dvd biased? I dont wanna hear shit about how good he is, i wanna hear truth about him and the kliq being dicks and legitimate stuff, like him being an asshole. is there stuff like that in his dvd?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

If you want good WWE-ECW, get anything with Punk or Morrison on it. I'm still sad to see John go after he was one of the FEW reasons to watch that crap show, & who knows what he could've done in the future?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Been on a total WWE 2004 fix over the past few days. And of course the first thing I'll gravitate towards is how incredible the Eddie/JBL program was, imo. Bradshaw became an instant credible heel thanks to working with Guerrero. Just like that. Overnight. He made fans care about a guy recieving a random push after years of being a midcard worker. Not to discredit JBL at all, he did his job at getting over himself. Quality promos just about each week. Now who doesn't love underdog Latino champion with an abundance of talent & respect vs a rich white Texan/New Yorker who represents all the Republican/Capitalist fatcats in the USA? I know I do. Their chemistry worked surprisingly well too. Eddie got Bradshaw to some of his strongest matches in the span of only a few months. Judgment Day was intense(even before the ABSURD chair shot & blood loss), GAB was a darn good follow up, and the cage was superb. Even with all 3 matches not having "clean" finishes, the program was so good that it worked it's way around them. I love that. So, there is some gush & love from me. 

Some STARS to tie all of this up:

Eddie vs JBL I ~ ****1/2
Eddie vs JBL II/Texas Bullrope ~ ***3/4
Eddie vs JBL III/Steel Cage ~ ****


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I loved the JBL/Eddie Guerrero feud. I stopped watching WWE by that time but last year I watched every single RAW and SD from 2004 and although SD was complete crap in 2004 IMO the one feud that made it stood out was JBL/Guerreo. What I liked bout it was that it's a storyline as old as it gets. The upper class, limousine driving, snobby rich SOB vs the everyday working class (latino) citizen. A very simple and dated storyline yet through amazing promos (I will never forget hot damn funny it was seeing JBL kicking the Mexicans back into the border) and matches they made it work. They took ordinary and made it extrodinary. When you can make the smart fans (who are heel lovers) hate the heel then you're doing it right. I rememner how pissed I was when JBL won the title from Guerrero. I'm watching feud and a match on a 7 year delay yet for some strange reason I'm thinking this is happening in the present.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I loved the JBL/Eddie Guerrero feud. I stopped watching WWE by that time but last year I watched every single RAW and SD from 2004 and although SD was complete crap in 2004 IMO the one feud that made it stood out was JBL/Guerreo.


I've said before my memory sucks on old matches, but I am sure JBL was not part of the best feud on any show... Especially when he wrestled under that name.

EDIT: That reminds me... Why did the video for Ron's HOF induction only refer to the "APA", & not the team by its earlier name (only way JBL gets in the Hall)?!


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

*WWE Wrestlemania X-7*​
It's been years since I last watched Mania XVII and as my tastes in wrestling have developed I thought it'd be interesting to review what is considered by many the greatest PPV of all time.

*Match #1 WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*
William Regal vs. Chris Jericho (c)
A neat match that was hurt by the lack of time. Basically, Regal works on the injured shoulder of Jericho beautifully with an array of offence and works towards his signature submission. Jericho makes it to the ropes, catches Regal out and as Regal is on the floor he hits a Lionsault for a surprise pinfall victory. This was good while it lasted but I felt like half the match was missing. **

*Match # 2 6 Man Tag Team Match*
Right to Censor (Val Venis, The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan w/Steven Richards) vs. APA w/Jacqueline & Tazz
Short tv esque match used to fill out the card. By no means offensive and there are a couple of nice spots, particularly Buchanan's athleticism but it felt unnecessary especially in light of the previous match. *

*
Match #3 Triple Threat Hardcore Championship Match*
The Big Show vs. Kane vs. Raven (c)
This was a fun brawl with a couple of sick hardcore spots. Raven going through the glass hits all the right notes and I cracked up big time watching Kane drive in the buggy with Hebner in the back. Nice finish too. Arguably the best hardcore championship match in WWE history. ***

*Match #4 European Championship Match*
Eddie Guerrero w/Perry Saturn vs. Test (c)
A short but sweet match that told a good story and sort of sticks out as a bit of a sleeper hit on this card. Test wins all the battles until Eddie uses every dirty trick in the book to even out the odds. Test makes a comeback but just as he looks to have put Eddie away Malenko distracts the champion and the referee allowing Eddie to hit the champion with the belt. Good psychology but because of the length I really can't be too generous. **

*Match #5 Grudge*
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
The biggest disappointment. I remember when I was younger I really enjoyed this match, I liked how it made Benoit look strong in defeat and Angle smart in victory and really made me want to see a rematch but on re-watch I thought this match just kind of sucked. The whole point of this was to see who the better submission wrestler was so you'd assume they'd work a body part like in the previous match or something. Instead we're treated to the same take down spot four times which only kills the crowd. The match then boils down to an ordinary Benoit/Angle match except the offence here is really weak. I still like the finish but it wasn't the kind of finish that can save the rest of the match. *

*Match #6 Women's Championship Match*
Chyna vs. Ivory
Squash, but a fair squash none the less. N/A

*Match #7 Special Guest Referee Street Fight *
Vince McMahon w/Stephanie McMahon vs. Shane McMahon
Special Guest Referee: Mick Foley
The personification of sports entertainment in one match. Very spotty (does Shane even hit 5 moves?) but everything they did was for a purpose, drew huge responses and the match was able to tie four stories together in a match. This might sound generous but this match was as good as it could ever hope to be. ***
*
Match #8 WWE Tag Team Championship Tables Ladders and Chairs Match*
The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz (c)
As brutal as it was over 11 years ago. An incredible amount of violence in this match and what surprises me is the worst bumps seem to be taken by those not involved in the match. Spike in particular takes an incredibly brutal chair shot from Lita of all people that stands as one of the best (or worst depending where you sit) I've seen. Bit difficult to write as there were very few moments it appeared somebody was going to win and some of the psychology in the spot seems iffy. Seems like certain participants think the match is won on style points. Also found the finish a little anti-climatic for some reason. I mean on paper it's actually quite fair but it seems like it takes Christian ages to get the belts (with thanks to Rhyno which makes it dirty) and given the non-stop action before hand I thought it could have been more dynamic. Still, a fantastic spot match and one that should be seen. ****

*Match #9 Gimmick Battle Royal*
Bunch of old timers
This was fun enough, a bit of a piss break and way to ease the crowd off until the third and final act of the show. Heenan's commentary is a star of the match for me, big fan of his. N/A

*Match #10 Singles*
Triple H vs. The Undertaker
First off, wow I thought Motorhead sucked on the intro. Usually I like them but I swear Lemmi didn't even know his own song and just started improvising on the spot. This was a fun enough brawl and they went at each other straight away. Hunter works the neck well on the early going before the ref. proceeds to piss him off with a perceived slow count. Eventually it leads to the most exagerated ref. bump of all time when an Undertaker elbow takes Doane out for about 10 minutes which allows them to brawl to some production set up which leads to a couple of big spots. Of course the star of the match is the Last Ride/Sledgehammer spot which goes over massively with the crowd. Eventually Taker picks up a win when Hunter puts himself in a precarious situation on the top turnbuckle. Sort of a difficult match to mark, at the time of the show it was the stand-out singles match but certain parts drag, seem silly and they didn't pull out all the stops which I'm fine with on this card but it hurts this match. ***

*Match #11 WWE World Championship No-DQ Match*
Steve Austin vs. The Rock (c)
I finally get it. After all these years I never completely understood why people loved this match as they do and apart from being a very good Austin/Rock match with a nice twist but this match is more than that. Great pacing which just explodes from the start and builds from there. Both guys captured the importance of this match but Austin here particularly shines displaying just how passionate and desperate he is to win this match. What really made me mark out for this match, after all these years were the callback spots which JR picked up perfectly. First The Rock uses the Sharpshooter, the one move that put Austin away at Mania, then Austin gets desperate enough to use the Million Dollar choke, a move that earned him his first victory and then The Rock uses Hart's successful counter to attempt a pin on Austin. Both guys hit everything on one another but unlike Indy stars they make sure to protect their finishers and make them mean something in this match. It's a long match but both guys know how to keep it interesting through each phase and both come off looking like a million bucks. I don't hand this score out much but here we go...*****

I'm unsure if this is the brilliant card everyone remembers but it's probably the most balanced card that hits all the right marks. I wanted something to get me into the Wrestlemania mood and it succeeded just like It's A Wonderful Life gets me into Christmas.

Good stuff.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Loved that JBL/Eddie series and as a whole 2004 is my favorite year in WWE history.

Watching the Jeff Hardy DVD right now. Was never one of my favorites but they did a good job putting this together and he has quite a few high quality matches.


----------



## DAT SHIT CRAY BRAH (Mar 1, 2012)

Brye said:


> 2004 is my favorite year in WWE history.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I was wondering if anyone would be willing to sell me a few of the In Your Houses on DVD? If so let me know on here or PM me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

DAT SHIT CRAY BRAH said:


>


Don't quite see where you're going with this.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

seems like the only thing a lot of people on this site do nowadays is post shitty pictures in attempts to be funny or something.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2004-2005 was awesome. We had Benoit, Guerrero, Trips, Angle, Shawn, Shelton, Edge, Jericho, the list goes on and on and on, tearing it up night after night. While this was going on we had the build up of the new generation of stars such as Cena, Orton, Batista, etc. Shelton completely OWNED the midcard, and that twas awesome as well.

You know what ? Take apart JBL's title reign as much as you want, but he was the WWE champion when I first started watching Wrestling, and he holds all the credibility in the world to me. One of the true masters of garnering heel heat, I'd go out on a limb to consider him a top 5 most hated heel of the last decade (hell, maybe even top 2 or 3), the dude was NEVER cheered and crowds absolutely HATED him.

So yeah, where was I ? Oh yeah, 2004/2005 were awesome years, and my two favorite years in Wrestling ? Don't like it ? Well then..... Do something about it


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*TLC 2011*

Dolph Ziggler v Zack Ryder
Really entertaining fast paced opener with a satisfying feel good title win for the underdog babyface. Good start to the show.

***

Air Boom v Primo & Epico
Short and sweet. Rosa's hot.

**1/4

Randy Orton v Wade Barrett
Solid brawl and they incorporated the tables often and well. Not high on Barrett's ring work but this was a good showing from him. Nice finish.

**3/4

Beth Phoenix v Kelly Kelly
Skipped it.

Kevin Nash v Triple H
Heard most people say this was bad, didn't think it was at all. It was slow and a bit too long given Nash's limitations but overall I thought it was a solid brawl. HHH's leg work was good, although Nash didn't sell it very well, and Hunter's flip bump in the corner looked great with the ladder there. Didn't help that the crowd wasn't into it until the finish (which Nash fucked up too) but it was a good effort from Trips to carry a guy who really doesn't have much (or anything) to offer in a ring anymore to a decent match.

**1/4

Jack Swagger v Sheamus
Nothing match put together to give Sheamus a win. The execution was fine.

*1/2

Mark Henry v Big Show
I was enjoying this before the abrupt finish. Henry talking shit, Show selling the injured hand like a champ, chair shots galore. Could've been good if they let them go longer. 

*1/4

Cody Rhodes v Booker T
What it needed to be. Booker looked sharp and I liked how he sold being out of it before and after the spinarooni. Cody was on point and got the win as he should have.

**

CM Punk v Alberto Del Rio v The Miz
Punk is a guy on top of his game right now. You can put him in a technical wrestling match, a hate-filled grudge match, or a spotfest like this and he's really really good in all of them. Del Rio and Miz teaming up briefly at the start but never trusting each other was good and from the moment it broke down to every man for himself it was pure action. Had some of the usual flaws that detract from this kind of match but the action was good and the stuff with the handcuff was creative.

***3/4

Pretty good show.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I have to agree here. 2004/2005 were brilliant years in the WWE. I loved them. Eddie Guerrero as WWE Champion but also JBL as WWE Champion. I loved JBL's reign. I aint joking when I say I'd buy a JBL DVD/Blu-Ray Set.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

JBL throwing Mexicans over the border was just amazing lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Really like Raw 04, but I'm not as high on the SD side of things tbh. Eddie's run was great early on, but I hated JBL winning the title at the time, and while I've gone back and watched most of his title run again and enjoyed it, I still don't think much to the rest of the shows.

05... Raw started off pretty good, didn't like most of SD still. Hell, I stopped watching from around JD to No Mercy (only started watching again because I saw an ad for the casket match and Eddie/Batista at NM about 5 hours before the event started and I ordered it  ) and I've yet to catch up on the SD side of things outside of PPV's and the odd TV match here and there (watched everything Undertaker did, essentially, and then the Rey/Eddie feud). Not sure how much of the Raw side of things I caught up with in 05. I think everything as at the time when I wanted to catch up it was easier to get hold of the Raw shows than the SD shows (one day I'll get off my arse and buy them on DVD or something lol).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My fav WWF(E) years would either be 92, 97 or 98 but 2004 prob makes my top 5.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2000, 1997, 2001 make up my top 3. Kinda hard to rank other years as I haven't seen enough of the early years before the likes of Raw (mainly just PPV matches and the odd TV match and whatnot), and once the brand split kicks in I've usually only really been a fan of one brand rather than both, so I can't really put them in a top 5 without splitting them up .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> 2000, 1997, 2001 make up my top 3. Kinda hard to rank other years as I haven't seen enough of the early years before the likes of Raw (mainly just PPV matches and the odd TV match and whatnot), and once the brand split kicks in I've usually only really been a fan of one brand rather than both, so I can't really put them in a top 5 without splitting them up .


2000 and 2001 are amazing as well.....I think 1997 is the best year in pro wrestling history...I bought every ppv for wwf and wcw that year and didnt miss a raw or nitro...all good stuff


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> 2000 and 2001 are amazing as well.....I think 1997 is the best year in pro wrestling history...I bought every ppv for wwf and wcw that year and didnt miss a raw or nitro...all good stuff


2000 is my absolute fav. WWE was on a role the entire year. Just awesome stuff.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage - Wrestlemania 3*
What a fucking match. It's my forth watch of this match and I love it even more after this viewing. The near-falls were great, but it was really the little things that makes this match perfect, such as the planning of all the close falls; they had perfect timing and a perfect set-up. Savage's heel mannerisms were also great. He tried to avoid getting caught up in a speed game with Steamboat and even try and keep him out of the ring. A potential GOAT match. *******

To get into the mood of 'Mania, what's everyone's Top 10 'Mania matches? I'll post mine when I do some more rewatching.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> 2000 is my absolute fav. WWE was on a role the entire year. Just awesome stuff.


A lot of people hate on Wrestlemania 2000. I wanted Rock to win the title that night but overall it's a solid WM. There have been MANY that sucked much more.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> A lot of people hate on Wrestlemania 2000. I wanted Rock to win the title that night but overall it's a solid WM. There have been MANY that sucked much more.


WM 2000 was... odd. Not having ONE ordinary singles match was kinda crazy, but for the most part I like the event. Plus I LOVE that Rock didn't win .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> JBL throwing Mexicans over the border was just amazing lol.


That promo was epic. :lmao

What does everyone think of Booker/Taker/Eddie/JBL from Armageddon '04? I found it to be really exciting and seeing Taker/Eddie interactions was awesome.


----------



## LINK (Dec 21, 2011)

I stopped watching in 2004.... WHA WHAAAAAAAA (price is right noise) and returned in 2006 WHA WHAAAAAAAA (again).....

FML

My favorite years have to be 87' 92' 95' 97' 98' 00'.... WHA WHAAAAAAA (ugh)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> That promo was epic. :lmao
> 
> What does everyone think of Booker/Taker/Eddie/JBL from Armageddon '04? I found it to be really exciting and seeing Taker/Eddie interactions was awesome.


Wrote about the match ages ago:



> Just watched the 4 way from Armageddon 2004... because... I dunno lol. Tried looking up my thoughts on the match because I was sure I wrote about it for the Poll... but I can't fucking find anything lol.
> 
> Anyway, watching it REALLY makes me fucking upset that Eddie and Undertaker never had a match together . They get about... 7 or 8 minutes (in like, a 25 minute match) where they are on their own and fuck me its all awesome stuff. Eddie playing possum in the ring while Undertaker destroys Booker and JBL, only for Undertaker to still chokeslam the fuck out of him lol. Then Eddie picks up the title belt while Undertaker sets him up for the Last Ride, and decks him in the face. With Undertaker down, he goes for a Frog Splash, and once he hits it he jumps up to the other corner and hits another splash, only for Undertaker to kick out and sit up! Eddie looks terrified and tries to high tale it out of their, but Undertaker drags him back only to get a kick to the balls, allowing Eddie to take him down and hit a frog splash from the top of a ladder! Then JBL pulls the ref out and things turn back into a 4 way match lol. But yeah, so much fucking fun in the exchanges they had, and it sucks so fucking much that they never got the chance to have a singles match .
> 
> Edit: Shit, was actually only about 3 minutes they got together lol. Seemed a lot longer in a VERY good way though.


Lol, not so much about the match than just Undertaker/Eddie . Ah well. That was the important part of the match. Booker T can fuck off. Worst part of JBL's title reign was when he had to feud with him.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WCW Japan Supershow 1991 - U.S. Tag Team Titles vs. IWGP Tag Team Titles: The Steiner Bros vs. Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki
FUCK ME THIS IS AWESOME it was stiff, brutal and a intense match with insane crowd heat and tons of great mat wrestling. ****3/4

WCW Superbrawl 1991 - WCW World Tag Titles: The Steiners vs. Lex Luger & Sting
A fan fucking-static match with balls to the ball action from start to finish. The crowd was electric and cheered each and every move from all four guys. Even the ending was great because it was part of an outside storyline and show STING was a hell of a tag partner. ****3/4

Both these matches were at least 12 minutes long and really showed tag wrestling at it's best.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Wrote about the match ages ago:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, not so much about the match than just Undertaker/Eddie . Ah well. That was the important part of the match. Booker T can fuck off. Worst part of JBL's title reign was when he had to feud with him.


Agreed. I didn't even bother watching their match from Survivor Series. But as a whole SS was a really entertaining show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cleavage said:


> WCW Japan Supershow 1991 - U.S. Tag Team Titles vs. IWGP Tag Team Titles: The Steiner Bros vs. Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki
> FUCK ME THIS IS AWESOME it was stiff, brutal and a intense match with insane crowd heat and tons of great mat wrestling. ****3/4
> 
> WCW Superbrawl 1991 - WCW World Tag Titles: The Steiners vs. Lex Luger & Sting
> ...


Not a fan of that Japan Supershow tag, but I did quite like the Superbrawl match. Not even close to as much as you though lol, I'm not a big fan of "your turn, my turn" MOVES~! matches these days. Plus I really fucking hate Sting :lmao.



> Sting & Lex Luger Vs Steiner Brothers – Superbrawl 19/05/1991
> 
> Like the start of this match, with Rick starting out against Lex. Lex is probably the strongest man in the match, as JR tells us, and Rick, the dog faced gremlin, literally FIGHTS to push Luger into the corner during a collar and elbow tie up. It doesn’t hurt Lex, it doesn’t give Rick an advantage in the match, but he WANTS to do it just so he can get in Lex’s mind. And with Lex a little pissed that Rick “overpowered” him into the corner, Rick then takes Lex down to the mat where he clearly has the advantage over Luger. Mind games from Steiner? I’d say so.
> 
> ...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

It was kind of badass that a heel walked out of WM2000 with the belt and I probably like HHH more than the Rock. The moment at Backlash where Rock won the title was sweet but I just wish that would have happened at a bigger PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash probably wouldn't have been as good as it was had WM not ended the way it did. So thank fuck it did because Backlash is one of THE very best PPV's of all time. Makes WM 17 look like a pile of steaming TNA PPV shit .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm going to watch HBK/Taker 25 and 26 as well as HHH/Taker from last year over the weekend before I head out to Miami. Want to get the whole series right in my head before this damn cell match lol. I watched HBK/Flair from 24 for the hell of it a day ago or so too. Considering the fact that I've decided to completely ignore Flair's existence in TNA, this still held up as an emotional roller coaster ride. I loved it then and still love it now. The crowd response after is just incredible. If I had to stick an old snowflake on it I guess I'd go ****1/4. The actual match itself isn't anything amazing although Flair does bust out a few Godly moves lol. But the emotion, story and fan reaction make this match for me. Flair's match with HHH on the last Raw of 2007 is a little gem for me as well. Great match.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah I really didn't enjoy Mania 2000.

Apart from the Triple Threat Tag Ladder match the entire card was either a disappointment or just flat out sucked. I haven't watched every Wrestlemania so I have no issue calling it the worst Mania of all time (yes even worse than 15).

2004 is such a strange year. It's just a constant mix of good and bad things. It really started well and the first 4 months is basically everything you want to see in wrestling. Mania was stacked with highly anticipated matches & the feuds were built strongly. The biggest criticisms one could make would be mere nit-picks (eg. Why didn't Benoit get his revenge against Lesnar?).

But then Goldberg, Lesnar & Austin all left after Mania 20 and Angle would resume a GM role while he rehabbed his injured freakin' neck & I believe Show took some time off as well. Smackdown was already reeling after the loss of Benoit & Edge but they really suffered when those aforementioned guys left and things were so bad they had to have the Dudley Boyz main event PPVs and put Haas in the title picture at one point. 

I think the big problem was that the WWE played it way too safe that year on Smackdown - the plan seemed very transparent, groom John Cena to defeat an established JBL. Now, there's nothing wrong with predictability - if you thought the Rock was going to main event Mania 2000 that's great but where's the fun in a feud without twists along the way? For example, have Cena face JBL at a prior PPV (preferably Survivor Series because Booker didn't deserve a shot) and have him just fall short but book it such a way that we want Cena to get a rematch but JBL is going to hold out and jeopardise it by teasing other match ups. That's simple but exciting booking and would have worked wonders in getting everyone on board with Cena from the out-set.

Another issue I had with 04 is the quality of PPVs. I'm not sure if it's because the TV product was so good but I found most of the PPVs pretty disappointing that year and very few really stand out as good. TV on the other hand seemed to give away PPV calibre matches every 2 weeks. HBK/Benoit, HHH/Benoit Iron Man, Benoit & Edge/Evolution, Edge/Orton, Jericho/Christian Steel Cage, JBL/Eddie Steel Cage, Angle/Eddie III, Cena/Taker etc. were all quality matches that could have drawn money if they weren't whored out on tv so often.

And a lot of storylines sucked. Benoit was booked as a mid-carder as champion and the WWE had no problems telling you the real stars of the show were Hunter & Michaels in a sickeningly indulgent feud that lead to one of the wankiest HiaC matches of all time. A retard dominated the bulk of Raw, the diva search was in full swing, Kane/Lita was crap & a lot of things just flat out tanked. Edge was warming as one of the bigger faces in the company back in '03 but by the time he came back they booked him way too strong, too early and made him a bland angry face. Orton flat out sucked as a babyface and nobody sympathised with him & I thought a lot of guys (Tajiri, Rhyno, Hurricane etc.) got lost in the shuffle.

TL;DR - Great start, some great TV matches but plenty of things that ruin what could have been a great year.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> I'm going to watch HBK/Taker 25 and 26 as well as HHH/Taker from last year over the weekend before I head out to Miami. Want to get the whole series right in my head before this damn cell match lol. I watched HBK/Flair from 24 for the hell of it a day ago or so too. Considering the fact that I've decided to completely ignore Flair's existence in TNA, this still held up as an emotional roller coaster ride. I loved it then and still love it now. The crowd response after is just incredible. If I had to stick an old snowflake on it I guess I'd go ****1/4. The actual match itself isn't anything amazing although Flair does bust out a few Godly moves lol. But the emotion, story and fan reaction make this match for me. Flair's match with HHH on the last Raw of 2007 is a little gem for me as well. Great match.


I watched all of these matches within the last week lol. All of them held up from the last time I viewed them. WM25 > WM26 > WM24 = WM27. Magnificent storytelling overall and all four connect which is incredible.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> I watched all of these matches within the last week lol. All of them held up from the last time I viewed them. WM25 > WM26 > WM24 = WM27


Well from my last watch it went WM26 > WM25 = WM27 > WM24. I think lol. I'm looking forward to being able to watch the 3 of them together though. Then I need to start packing lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yes I'm so pumped for this Mania. We have at least three potential MOTYCs to look forward to.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I was watching Raw the other day, they were running down the card and I actually sat for a moment speechless. First of all, I'm actually getting to see a HIAC match live which is something I've always wanted to do and not just any cell match, a cell match between Taker and HHH of all people. It's fucking madness. I'm also getting to see Rock wrestle which is something I never thought I'd get to see either. Back when I was a kid and he wasn't fighting HHH (because I was such a mark as a child, haha), Rock was my second favorite. Now I'm getting to see him wrestle one of my other all time favorites in Cena. That's just 2 matches alone. I still can't quite fully believe it lol. I don't think it will hit me until I'm in my seat and they knock the lights out to signal the start of the show tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hate everyone that gets to go to WM this year. I wanna see Undertaker/HHH HIAC live .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I really think Punk and Jericho also are going to surprise a lot of people with their match (fingers crossed). I think Punk is kind of in the position Edge was in 2006 where he feels he has something to prove and I think he will try his best to steal the show and put on a clinic with Jericho. I'm rooting for them to create a classic.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have no doubt Punk/Jericho will be great. I just don't feel the hype going in like I do with the other 2 which are legit dream matches for me.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When I first saw the cover on WWEDVDNews I thought it was one of those "fantasy concept" designs because it looks fan made and pretty crappy . But hey, the the actual DVD isn't that great anyway, so it doesn't matter about the cover .


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Best Matches of the show off but backing it up every single night Dolph Ziggler?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

For some reason, I have no faith in Punk and Jericho whatsoever.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Triple H vs Batista Hell in a Cell - *******

Oh. Well H has set the bar rather high for 'mania.


----------



## ThaKing (Jul 21, 2006)

HHH foley HIAC at NWO was one of the more WTF matches Ive ever seen, cant leave that element out for mania.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I hate everyone that gets to go to WM this year. I wanna see Undertaker/HHH HIAC live .


Kind of like how I hate everyone who has access to all the tagged classics.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Kind of like how I hate everyone who has access to all the tagged classics.


Just ordered 3 different ones for the first time on Monday and I'm expecting them either on Saturday or Monday. I don't even have a region-free DVD player but you can play them on your computer using VLC player.

Can't wait!!!


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*ECW - 19/6/93 - Chain Match*
Terry Funk vs Eddie Gilbert
***3/4

*ECW - 5/2/94*
Terry Funk vs Shane Douglas vs Sabu
****3/4

*SMW - 13/2/94*
Terry Funk vs The Bullet
***3/4

*ECW - 19/4/94*
Terry Funk vs Sabu
***3/4

*NWA - 23/4/94*
Terry Funk vs Chris Benoit
***1/4

*ECW - 14/5/94*
Terry Funk & Arn Anderson vs Sabu & Bobby Eaton
****


*Texas Death Match - 15/5/94*
Terry Funk vs Sabu
***1/4

*WCW - Slamboree 1994*
Terry Funk vs Tully Blanchard
***1/4

*ECW - 24/6/94*
Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Public Enemy
***3/4

*ECW - 16/7/94 - No Rope Barbed Wire*
Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Public Enemy
***3/4

*WCW - Bash At The Beach 1994*
Terry Funk & Bunkhouse Buck vs Arn Anderson & Dustin Rhodes
**3/4

*SMW - 5/8/94 - Coward Waves The Flag Match*
Terry Funk, Dory Funk & Bruiser Bedlam vs Bob Armstrong, Tracy Smothers & Road Warrior Hawk 
****

*ECW - 13/8/94*
Terry Funk vs Cactus Jack
***

*WCW - Fall Brawl 1994 - War Games*
Dusty Rhodes, Dustin Rhodes & The Nasty Boys vs Terry Funk, Arn Anderson, Bunkhouse Buck & Col. Robert Parker
***1/4


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I made a very nice discovery today: I picked up the keepcase version of "The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane," something I always wanted.

I remember when this set was announced, I was really excited, because I'm a fan of Kane and I loved the match listing. To me, it's the perfect combination of old classics and unexpected TV gems, which not a lot of sets incorporate. 

But when it was released, I was disappointed to see it was packaged in cheap cardboard, that, according to everyone, scratched up the discs. I'm very ocd about packaging, so despite wanting the set, I didn't buy it.

Then I heard about how Walmart had released it in a keepcase, and I was excited. Only problem is, I'm nowhere near a Walmart. Not even close. Nor did I see any listing for it on ebay.

But today, somehow I found it brand new at FYE for $6.99, and I couldn't be happier. 

I don't own the first two UT/Kane matches, so that's enough for me. But the first match against Mankind, the Chain match and Title vs. Title match against Triple H, the cage match against RVD, BOTH matches against Shane (the Ambulance is a favorite), his first match against HBK, the two gimmick matches against Edge from their 2005 feud, a TV match against Umaga, his first match against Booker T, and often forgotten champion vs. champion match from 2008 against Undertaker. 

This is an awesome set, and finding the version I wanted, brand new, in good condition, for $7, I'm ridiculously excited.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Just finished watching Judgement Day 2001. Do you guys know if the finish to the main event was botched or not because it sure as hell looked like it was botched?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As far as I am aware it happened the way it was supposed to, though the sledgehammer shot to Undertaker looked pretty fucking bad .


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Well it was weird because Kane was running out. The referee was already counting the pinfall before Austin was even pinning Taker and after that they had Kane's music randomly playing after Austing had already won.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think it was just because he was trying to save Undertaker from the double team by Austin and HHH but was too late, so Austin was able to "steal" the win and retain the title.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

You are probably right, it just looked kinda weird.
Watched Backlash 2001 too and was a bit disappointed with the Benoit/Angle match, just couldn't get in to it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*Razor Ramon vs. Jeff Jarrett (Royal Rumble 1995)*

Story. Characters. Structure. Great, great match for the IC title. Babyface Hall was super-duper awesome and mega over with crowd. In my promotion, Razor Fucking Ramon would have been a Top Dog and World Heavyweight Champion. He was a fantastic character and gimmick. His selling, offense, defense and storytelling in general was beautiful. Jeff Jarrett was an old school heel 101, he is born to be heel.
*Rating: ***3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> That promo was epic. :lmao
> 
> What does everyone think of Booker/Taker/Eddie/JBL from Armageddon '04? I found it to be really exciting and seeing Taker/Eddie interactions was awesome.


***3/4. It's quite good despite being on that SHIT PPV. Smackdown really fell off during the later half of 2004. Anyways, throw my hat in the "mark out" group with the Undertaker & Eddie interactions. If only we got a match...

I was watching WrestleMania 21 last night and when Michaels vs Angle was done, I still, STILL, to this day fail to see how that match is considered a "classic" by some people. Seriously? It felt so average for those workers. Sure the fans got into it, but fans got into Undertaker vs Triple H from WM 27 too. That doesn't make it great. I'll never see the appeal of the match quite frankly. Angle's match vs Marty freakin Jannetty on Smackdown a week or two prior to WM beat out that one. I'm in the minority, somewhat half of the population now I've seen, that prefers the rematch at Vengeance over the WrestleMania showdown. To me that is the match where the created something much more appealing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just did two review over the past few days with a third one in the works. Here's the first one:

*John Morrison: Rock Star*

So, this DVD is reminiscent of those old "superstar" series VHS's, where we would have a superstars career highlighted in the midst of random vignettes that intertwine between the matches. For some strange reason (not really a fan of Morrison), I was enticed by this DVD release, as it features NOTHING but TV matches.

_John Morrison vs CM Punk ECW 07_

This is Punk's last chance match. Quick exchanges in the beginning leads to some hard hitting moves, getting the crowd pumped and loud in the process. This is starting to heat up and I'm loving it, as it seems that this match can end at any second. Punk going for GTS early but failing. Every big move that Punk attempts is countered into another move by Morrison, who always seems to have Punk's number. That's the story that they are going with for this match and it works.

What makes this match a near-classic encounter is the last 5 minutes, which are filled with dramatic nearfalls. Finisher attemps and signature moves galore, and the kickouts are timed perfectly here, getting the crowd to stand on their feet. Punk ends this with the GTS at almost 13 minutes. What a match, this was the match that got me wondering was ECW ever better than the other 2 brands.

******

_Miz/Morrison vs Degeneration X Raw 08_

Very quick but fast paced match here. This match deserves points just for Morrison hitting the SCM on Triple H. Mizmo takes out HBK early, but their overconfidence allows HHH to find an opening, prompting a DX comeback. The two DX finishers to The Miz wins this in under 7 minutes, but the beginning of the match featured some bright exchanges. Not sure why it's on the DVD over other tag matches, but it's okay and relatively harmless.

*** 1/4*

_John Morrison vs Evan Bourne ECW 08_

Looking at the names in this match, what do you expect ? If I said a beginning with some good matwork, nobody would believe me. But it's true, this match starts off with some brilliant matwork and slowly escalates into a high flying fest that these two are more often known for. Some great sequences here such as Morrison landing a high kick while DODGING a high kick make this match a very fun watch. 

Top rope moonlight drive ends this surprisingly technical contest. I wasn't expecting this to be as mat based as it was, which was a pleasant surprise. Morrison was in control for this one, which was a good thing as I believe he's better on the offensive than defensive.

*****

_John Morrison vs Chris Jericho Superstars 09_

Umm...WHY WAS THIS ON SUPERSTARS ?!?! Anyways, this starts off with Jericho in control until Morrison says "Fuck this, it's corkscrew moonsault time" and gets the crowd on their feet. They're working at a fast pace for this one, I'm digging it. I love how Jericho just CAN'T his any of his finishers on Morrison effectively (codebreaker and lionsault reversed, Morrison made it to the ropes on a walls attempt), as it makes Jericho think of different ways to beat Morrison.

The ending makes a ton of sense, as Jericho is about to be pinned, but reverses the rollup into a pinning combination of his own, grabbing the tights for extra leverage. Simple, but effective heel mannerism by Jericho that garners him a win and alot of heat, plus allows Morrison not to lose any momentum. Fantastic psychology used in this match. Great encounter, but on Superstars ? WHAT ?

**** 1/4*

_John Morrison vs Edge SD 09_

This begins with a pre match promo here. Morrison, with not the brightest mic skills on the planet, actually manages to hang with Edge here. This match is well thought out and a little spotty at times, but that's what I expected. This match has good psychology as well, with Edge working on the injured ribs of Morrison throughout the match with knee shots, reversals and submissions all garnering to the rib area.

I have one issue with this match, and it is that Edge seems a tad lazy. He seems like he dosen't want to kick it into second gear here, and believe it or not, it is Morrison who carries this match. That's only a minor concern here, as a first gear Edge is better than many Wrestlers in the world today (coming from a person who isn't even a big Edge fan). Spear to the ribs (psychology) ends this match. A good encounter here.

**** 1/4*

_John Morrison vs CM Punk SD 09_

This match is much different than the ECW 07 last chance encounter, which relied on nearfalls and crowd interaction to stay hot. This match relies more on technical wrestling, as both men are babyfaces (Punk being SORT OF a tweener) here. Punk gets a great german bridge suplex in this match, and wears Morrison down with a half leg crab, trying to remove the aerial attack.

This is much more technically sound than the other match, but it isn't as exciting. Punk (WHC at the time) actually loses to Morrison clean here, which IMO is a horrible booking decision. No wonder Punk got so pissed off at the company. Still though, a technically great match, although not as good as the last chance match.

**** 1/2*

_John Morrison vs Jeff Hardy SD 09_

The World Title is on the line here. I absolutely HATE Jeff with a passion, so I thought this match was going to be garbage, but surprisingly it wasn't. Morrison remained in the driver's seat for a majority of the match, so things remained nice and smooth (unlike Jeff's sometimes sloppy offense). This match is just all over the place fun, as both men are just flying around to entertain the crowd, nothing wrong with that at all.

There isn't a whole lot of psychology here, Morrison works on the arm for a little bit but Jeff completely no sells the entire thing. It's Jeff Hardy vs John Morrison, you get what you think you get...Morrison actually kicks out of the Swanton Bomb here, and looks like he is very close to winning the world title, but gets caught in a few reversals, and Jeff is able to walk away with the title. A really fun match, not much psychology but a really great 14 minute match that keeps you excited. The Swanton kickout drove this up to three stars for me.

*****

_John Morrison vs Rey Mysterio SD 09_

This is for the IC title here. Starts off with a handshake and this fast paced contest is underway. Why is the crowd on Morrison's side ? Anyways, Rey is going hurricarana and counter hurricarana crazy right now, reminding me of the old WCW/ECW Rey and not the "My knees are glued together" present Rey. Morrison trying to ground the faster Mysterio, a smart tactic, but it eventually leads to a sick bump outside the ring. The pacing is unreal here.

Morrison tries to match Rey's aerial attack, doing some innovative moves such as his standing moonsault and unique backflip dropkicks and legdrops, all while grounding Rey at the exact same time, just brilliant stuff here. Amazing near fall, as Morrison kicks out of a springboard leg drop, thought it was over there. They begin to slow down (finally) towards the end, but that only adds to the match. After a series of counters and spots, Starship Pain gives Morrison the title. 

WHAT A MATCH. Honestly, the psychology was spot on, and it was one of the better paced matches I've seen over the last 5 years. Both men gave it their all, as they clearly knew this match had the potential to be special. Nearly 20 minutes of structured, nonstop, sensical action makes this one of the best TV matches that I have ever seen. Watch this match right now.

***** 1/4*


_Thoughts_

Here is the good about this DVD: you get 8 matches, and all of them are TV matches, meaning they aren't repeats. You get TWO **** + matches on this set, and there isn't a single BAD match to be found on the entire disc, as only one match (the tag) is even AVERAGE. This was a great watch and I went through it like it was nothing. Hell, this DVD is worth it just for the last match.

The problem with this DVD is simple...WHY DOES IT EXIST ? It's John FUCKING Morrison. I'm not a big fan of the guy, but damn, we don't have a Sting set or a Vader set or a Ted Dibiase set or......I could actually list about 100 other wrestlers who deserve a set over John Morrison, why does this exist ? It's only one disc worth of matches, and it's great for what it is, but why does this DVD exist ? I don't know, this remind me of the John Cena: Word Life DVD that was released in 04, except, you know, John Cena was actually PUSHED.

I'd definitely recommend this DVD if you can find it for cheap like I did, as it is a fun watch, but the segments that intertwine with the matches just aren't that good at all (although the extra is quite decent), and are completely uninteresting. Good DVD, but a horrible idea for a DVD, if that makes any sense. I can't give this over 6/10 because of the DVD market is saturated with 3 disc released stocked full of extra content and in-depth documentary, but still, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND this for cheap. A great buy. I actually LIKE this. Wow.

*6/10*

Batista & WM XX reviews coming soon!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aside from not really been a fan of Morrison, its a pretty solid DVD. He had a bunch of great TV matches in 09 and that DVD was great for showcasing some of them. Wouldn't mind seeing "TV" sets like this for other stars every year, so long as they don't do them for someone like Kofi Kingston or R-Truth or The Miz. Basically I'd like sets for wrestlers worth watching . Then again they've started doing the Raw and SD sets every year now so there isn't a need for sets like this any more.

Oh, and Morrison Vs Jericho happening on Superstars wasn't much of a "WTF" at the time. It only debuted (or rather, re-debuted) in April of 09 and they tried to make it a big deal by having guys like Jericho, Punk, Kane, Orton and even Undertaker show up. At first. Then it became a low to mid-card guy show, which wasn't a bad thing other than it lacked star power, as the show would feature some great matches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I remember Punk and Morrison having 3 really good matches (SD) in 2009, and one of them being great, can't remember which one. And yeah, Mysterio/Morrison was a MOTYC, go figure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The first one right before The Bash 2009 was the great Punk/Morrison match in their 2009 Trilogy. He was on point in a good amount of TV matches that year. 

Don't see how it is baffling that he had his own set either. In fact that was a great sign to showcase a new, fresh talent like that. Granted things obviously didn't work out, but hey, he had some good stuff and it got to be showcased on the set. No harm, no foul.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Morrison put on alot of good matches in his career, imo. Good tag run and then really strong singles run.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Had one of the best matches on TV last year vs Miz, imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Love that match. The series with Sheamus was awesome too. And he had a solid match with Jeff in July '08.

Anyone else really like the Smackdown Main Event/Midcard fusion in '08 where we were getting guys like Triple H, Taker and Show in competitive matches with guys like Hardy, MVP, Benjamin and Kendrick? Thought it was entertaining as fuck and it was cool to see guys like Benjamin sort of in a spotlight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not that big a fan of the Morrison/Miz match. Or the Morrison/Rey match. Or the Morrison/Bourne match (which KoK didn't seem to like as much as most other people too, which is nice to see lol. Usually gets **** ratings). Or the Morrison/Punk ECW match . Still think he had a pretty good period in the summer of 09 with Jericho and Punk though. Preferred him in MNM tbh.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

hey kingcal, whatd you think of Taker vs Triple H last year?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Love that match. The series with Sheamus was awesome too. And he had a solid match with Jeff in July '08.
> 
> Anyone else really like the Smackdown Main Event/Midcard fusion in '08 where we were getting guys like Triple H, Taker and Show in competitive matches with guys like Hardy, MVP, Benjamin and Kendrick? Thought it was entertaining as fuck and it was cool to see guys like Benjamin sort of in a spotlight.


MVP's was meh only because that was when he started that awful losing streak angle. Right when that kicked off he had a lengthy bout with Jeff Hardy that totally blew away their Summerslam match. Go figure. Guys like Shelton & Kendrick I was very behind the pushes. Shelton was a guy I got behind instantly from his push back in 2004. I felt they missed the boat with him and clearly they did. Kendrick's was too good. THE Brian Kendrick gimmick was pretty much the main reason to care about Smackdown during that period. Because honestly it was VERY bad tv for the majority. 

Unforgiven 2008 Kendrick was WWE Champion. For about 10 minutes and unofficially. But, I mark everytime I see it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redeadening said:


> hey kingcal, whatd you think of Taker vs Triple H last year?





Spoiler: match review



The Undertaker Vs Triple H

Without a doubt the BIGGEST match on the show… and really the ONLY big match on the show. Despite my seeming man love for The Undertaker, I wasn’t too interested in this one. Based on their previous matches over the years I had a lot of reason to doubt it. And watching it live didn’t do much for me.

However, after sitting through 20 minutes of Lawler/Cole and numerous other disappointments, and the fact it was around half 2 in the morning by now, I was tired and a little bored and probably didn’t pay as much attention to it. Hopefully this rewatch will do some good. I mean, back at WM 25 I wasn’t THAT impressed with HBK/Undertaker when I saw it live. Adored it when I reviewed it the next day.

“For Whom The Bell Tolls” plays and out comes HHH for a rather unspectacular WM entrance. Nobody this year really had an entrance worth mentioning, including Undertaker right afterwards. Though I always enjoy Undertaker’s entrance no matter what lol. Oh, and his new coat was awesome too. Maybe one of these days I’ll look into getting a coat like that, always really wanted one.

No time wasted here as HHH takes the fight right to The Undertaker with those big lefts and rights. No need to feel his opponent out; he’s been in the ring before, plus he just wants to end the Streak at any cost, so going for the big bombs right away makes sense. Undertaker just kinda shrugs him off though, launching him out of the ring. HHH throws more bombs at Undertaker on the outside, but Undertaker again shrugs him aside and sends him into the steel steps. Undertaker wants to control this match and go at HIS pace, regardless of what HHH wants to do. So HHH charges at The Undertaker and sends him crashing through the tool box, which leads to a great visual of Undertaker getting up almost DBZ style when someone is knocked into a mountain or something and they just stand back up and let the rocks fly off them lol. He stares at HHH almost as if to say “fine, we’ll do it YOUR way”.

HHH is really determined to take out Undertaker here, and as a result Undertaker takes a bump into the barricade that someone of his age and condition (hip surgery a year or so ago I think) really shouldn’t be taking. But its WM and he’ll do everything he can. The fight goes onto the announcers table, and HHH takes a huge bump with a back body drop off the table to the floor, and perhaps legit injures his left arm which he favours for the rest of the match, but not in a way that prevents him from doing anything if you get me.

Knowing that he is truly in for the fight of a lifetime, Undertaker knows he has to really bust out everything in his arsenal. After WM 25 when he landed on his head, I didn’t think we would see it again, especially since he didn’t do it at WM 26 and his condition has got to be worse a year later… but dammit, Undertaker continues to prove that he is still the best in the world when he wants to be, and he dives over that top rope as effortlessly as he did a decade ago when he was in way better shape.

The big bumps keep coming, and Undertaker again puts his body in more risk than he should when he attempts to put HHH through a table but ends up taking a AA Spinebuster through it instead! DAMN!

Watching live, and feeling how I did (bored, disappointed and tired due to the time and rest of the show so far lol), I just saw this as one giant finishing stretch from the get go with no psychology or anything. Watching it again in a much better mood, I can see it for what it really is; awesome. The match is all about HHH wanting to end the streak or die trying, and Undertaker wanting to prove to HHH that is ISN’T his time to go yet. So HHH does what he does best; be a ruthless cunt who will destroy his opponent at any cost, while Undertaker continues to fight back and kick out of anything The Game throws at him. If they had started slow, locking up and “wrestling” at the beginning, it really would have been dumb given the context of the feud, so I for one am glad that they went all out from the start. Helps that they are executing everything so well too.

At some point Undertaker gets a Chokeslam in, but nobody in their right mind believes that its over lol. A Pedigree shows up too, and it too isn’t that great as a false finish, just because of what Undertaker and HBK did the last 2 years.

The Last Ride spot, while again not the best false finish, was still cool because it was a great throwback to WM 17, as Undertaker defeated HHH that way 10 years ago at this very event. Undertaker getting frustrated was great to see. His character as the last outlaw might not look too different on the surface, but he really is been shown as more “human” than usual, and given the feud with Undertaker not accepting HHH’s statement that he’s done, getting frustrated like this at not being able to put HHH away really adds to the story of the match. If a Last Ride, and then a TOMBSTONE can’t put HHH away… can Undertaker do it? Can he hold on to his streak? DRAMA~!

The second Pedigree is a way better false finish than the first. Like the Tombstone, its one of THE most protected finishers in the entire industry really (though other companies tend to use the Tombstone every now and then and NOT finish a match with it…). So seeing 2 of them not work, and then a THIRD in a very short period of time after the second one also not work was just amazing. I always go into these matches expecting Undertaker to win, but every so often a certain spot in certain matches over the last few years really makes me think that the Streak might end this time. That third Pedigree was one of those moments along with the last Superkick in WM 26 before Undertaker eventually won.

MOAR Throwbacks in the match (which I LOVE btw) with HHH using the steel chair similar to how Austin used it on The Rock at WM 17 when Rocky kept kicking out of the Stunner, and then the “stay down” which was a throwback to WM 26 when Undertaker told HHH’s best friend HBK to stay down. Makes the match that much better that Undertaker actually finished HBK off after telling him to stay down and he didn’t, so with HHH saying it maybe he would actually get the win!

Undertaker’s selling in this match NEEDS to be talked about too. The man really is one of the better sellers IN THE WORLD today, and has been for a number of years, even with the Dead Man gimmick. He can make things believable while still being able to be the “other worldly” character. Here he comes across as more human, as I mentioned earlier, and his selling is just impeccable. You really get the feeling that he’s at death’s door and the next big move could end his streak, and his life (kayfabe of course).

And then there is the Tombstone. From HHH. Good GOD. I’m struggling to decide which is better; Tombstone kick out by HBK at WM 25, or this one. The crowd has been pretty shitty most of the night, but picked up for this match, and when Undertaker kicked out of that Tombstone they went ballistic. Almost as if THEY, like me, believed that it was over. And then it wasn’t. And it was awesome.

Just as Undertaker was getting frustrated with HHH kicking out of shit, HHH begins to get that same feeling, and resorts to bringing out the Sledgehammer. He drags Undertaker to the centre of the ring, and informs the Dead Man that “Its time”. And Undertaker sticks him in Hells Gate! What a struggle this is too, with HHH trying to hang on, trying to escape. At one point he grabs that Sledgehammer, and we know that just one shot from that and it could be it for The Undertaker… but HHH is fading fast, and the Sledgehammer drops. The hammer hits the mat, and then The Game taps out. I would have preferred for HHH to simply “pass out” to really put over the “die trying” mentality that he had going into the match, but its a minor complaint really.

Damn. Definitely, DEFINITELY enjoyed this more on this rewatch. A LOT more. A fucking TON more. This is fantastic. Truly epic. The storytelling is off the charts, the action is incredible, and the finish (while not 100% perfect) is great. This was one hell of a battle, and the selling from both men, but especially The Undertaker, is out of this world. Hell, I’ve been reading all day from numerous sites that a LOT of people believed that Undertaker was legit hurt and out of it. I just have to wonder what’s next for Undertaker after the way he was taken to the back.

Rating: ****3/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HAYLEY AFICIONADO said:


> MVP's was meh only because that was when he started that awful losing streak angle. Right when that kicked off he had a lengthy bout with Jeff Hardy that totally blew away their Summerslam match. Go figure. Guys like Shelton & Kendrick I was very behind the pushes. Shelton was a guy I got behind instantly from his push back in 2004. I felt they missed the boat with him and clearly they did. Kendrick's was too good. THE Brian Kendrick gimmick was pretty much the main reason to care about Smackdown during that period. Because honestly it was VERY bad tv for the majority.
> 
> Unforgiven 2008 Kendrick was WWE Champion. For about 10 minutes and unofficially. But, I mark everytime I see it.


I would love to see Kendrick back in the WWE. He was really entertaining as The Brian Kendrick. I remember reading an interview from when he left TNA that he pitched the idea of a Cobain gimmick but they turned it down.

Kozlov ruined the end of that year though. (N) That match at Survivor Series was hard to watch.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Ive had people refer to this as spotty and the same people say Kurt Angle isnt

I wish you would beat those people up for me KingCal. Because you just 'get' this shit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The match is spotty as hell. But the spots have plenty of meaning and storytelling behind them. Kurt just does spots .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I would love to see Kendrick back in the WWE. He was really entertaining as The Brian Kendrick. I remember reading an interview from when he left TNA that he pitched the idea of a Cobain gimmick but they turned it down.
> 
> Kozlov ruined the end of that year though. (N) That match at Survivor Series was hard to watch.


I heard recently that Kendrick could have a chance to return to the WWE. Fingers crossed.

Kozlov. Fuck. What were they thinking? He didn't get tolerable till he was on ECW. Not saying he magically got good, but his position was a lot more logical.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Like I said. One of these days I want you to take a Kurt Angle fanatic and take him to school

You and segunda just have this way of putting the arguments together in amazing ways


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Due to health reasons I avoid discussing Kurt Angle as often as possible. I'll have a heart attack if I argue with another super Angle Mark.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Angle can be pretty good but only if someone else is leading the match or atleast contributing large parts to the match. His matches in TNA the last few years (especially the one with Hardy in 2010) were just beyond ridiculous.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*No Way Out 2008*

*ECW Championship:* Chavo Guerrero (c) vs. CM Punk - **/12
*Smackdown Elimination Chamber:* The Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. The Great Khali vs. MVP vs. Big Daddy V - ***
*Career Threatening Match:* Ric Flair vs. Mr Kennedy - ***1/4
*World Heavyweight Championship:* Edge vs Rey Mysterio - **3/4
*WWE Championship:* John Cena vs Randy Orton - ***1/4
*Raw Elimination Chamber:* Triple H vs. Umaga vs. John Bradshaw Layfield vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy - ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Only one match left on WM XX for me to watch (main event). My write-ups won't be long for some of the matches, mainly because alot of the matches just aren't worth talking about. The two tag title matches, the cruiserweight open, two women's matches, and Goldberg/Lesnar will be getting one paragraph write-ups.

Everything else, however is solid. This PPV DESPERATELY needed a match like MITB.


BTW, what would you say Angle's best match is in the WWE? Top 10 that I've seen, in no particular order:

vs Undertaker NWO 06
vs Brock SS 03
vs Benoit RR 03
vs Shane Mcmahon KOTR 01
vs Brock WM 19
vs Taker SD 06
vs Taker SD 03
vs Eddie WM XX
Ven 02 Triple Threat
vs Cena SS 05

Haven't seen the Austin match at Summerslam or the NM tag match. That's just off the top of my head as well. Much love for the WM 21 and VEN 05 matches with HBK though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle's top 10 matches in WWE? Ok. Not in order:

Vs Undertaker NWO 06
Vs Undertaker SD 06
Vs Undertaker SD 03
Vs Lesnar SS 03
Vs Lesnar SD 03 (Iron Man)
Vs Undertaker Vs Rock Vengeance 02
Vs Austin SS 01
w/ Benoit Vs Edge & Mysterio NM 02
Vs Benoit Unforgiven 02
Vs HBK Vengeance 05


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

After reading Cal's review, despite not feeling that the match as a whole was THAT great, I will say that the tombstone from HHH is the greatest false finish I have seen. I remember I actually got up from my chair after the tombstone and was all "fuck no!" and thought for sure the streak was over, especially after three pedigrees, the chair shots, the chair shot to the skull, and the call back to the end of Taker/HBK the year prior. I marked when Taker kicked out of that more than in a long time.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah, that Tombstone was balls awesome.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I'll throw up some random match ratings before I go to sleep:

Royal Rumble 2005
JBL vs. Big Show vs. Angle- **

Judgment Day 2005
John Cena vs. JBL- *****

Smackdown 2005
Batista vs. Christian- ***

No Mercy 2006
Matt Hardy vs. Gregory Helms- ***1/4

SummerSlam 2003
RAW Elimination Chamber- ****

RAW 2008
Lance Cade vs. Paul London- **

WWF Smackdown 2001
Jeff Hardy vs. Jerry Lynn- ***3/4

No Mercy 2000
William Regal vs. Naked Mideon- *1/2

Judgment Day 2003
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs. Team Angle- ***3/4

One Night Stand 2007
The Hardy Boyz vs. WGTT- ****

Capitol Punishment 2011
John Cena vs. R-Truth- **1/2


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Not that big a fan of the Morrison/Miz match.


You are like a Russian judge. You are hard to impress. I guess that can be good or bad (shrugs). I would really like to hear your top 10 favorite and best PPVs of all time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 2000
WrestleMania 19
WrestleMania 24
WrestleMania 26
Vengeance 2005
Royal Rumble 2009
Royal Rumble 2001
SummerSlam 2002
Survivor Series 2002
In Your House 13: The Final Four
In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede

11 shows there, with any combination of them making up a best of and favourite list for me.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Watched Wrestlemania 21 a couple of days ago, man that was so close to being a perfect show.

Eddie/Rey was a solid opener, but nowhere near the best match they've had. God knows why Rey chose that mask because he couldn't stop messing with it and it kinda ruined the big moves they were going for as he was too busy adjusting the damn mask. Further planted the seeds for Eddie's epic heel turn a bit later on.

Money In The Bank is still probably the best or at least second best MITB match. It still pisses me off that Shelton didn't do more in the company, because he's so athletic and gifted. What a waste.

Undertaker vs Randy Orton - Call me crazy, but I think this is a better match than HBK/Angle. I love how it seems to build and by the end the crowd is absolutely wild and totally invested. I still remember thinking it was all over when Orton reversed the chokeslam into the RKO. That was the first time I really believed the streak was over. The interference from Orton Snr was nicely done and didn't detract from the match imo. Great back and forth; Undertaker really gave Orton some much needed credibility in 2005 after Triple H almost ruined him for good. Stellar match in my opinion.

Trish Stratus vs Christy Hemme - nothing really to say here. A load of crap, but I do like Trish 

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - a great match no doubt, perhaps not as amazing as others say it is. Still, a Wrestlemania classic for sure. Although I enjoyed Kurt working on Shawn's back for a good portion of match, that's all out of the window by the end as Shawn taps to the Ankle Lock. Angle had done ZERO work on the legs so it seems a bit silly. But, the Ankle Lock being applied gets a bigger pop than most other submissions so I can live with it.

Piper's Pit with Stone Cold Steve Austin. I love this segment being at Wrestlemania, it broke up the show nicely and gave the audience a bit of a rest after some exciting matches. It was great to see Austin and Piper trading insults back and forth, and Carlito was a welcome addition too. 

Big Show vs Akebono - who in the blue hell decided this should be at Wrestlemania?

John Cena vs JBL - It's kind of sad that this was Cena's crowning moment and the fans are absolutely, utterly, overwhelmingly....lukewarm for the whole thing. Not much of a pop for Cena's entrance, then a less than good match and towards the end there's even some boos for Cena. Crowd pops for the win but it was completely underwhelming. Seeing as JBL had held the title so long and Cena had been getting so popular, I expected a more epic moment so this was very disappointing.

Batista vs Triple H. This is more like it, a great main event and a nice way to close the show. Now, THIS felt like someone's crowning moment and the ushering in of a new era. The story between Batista and Triple H had been built so well, and people were solidly behind Batista. The match itself is quite great, and it made Batista look more than credible and look convincing with his fan. Also, the fans on hand were solidly behind Batista. Great moment.

Why oh why did WWE send Batista to Smackdown and decide to go with Cena as the main guy on RAW? I thought it was pretty obvious that Batista should've been THE guy for the company to get behind.

Side note - Just watched the Iron Sheik's HOF speech for the first time and laughed my ass off. What the hell was he saying?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 21:

Eddie/Rey - Urgh. Worst. Eddie Match. Ever.
MITB I - Best. MITB Match. Ever.
Undertaker/Orton - Great great match, though their weakest PPV match imo, which says something about their series as a whole.
Trish/Christy - LOL.
HBK/Angle - Great great match, and just slightly better than Undertaker/Orton for me now, though about 2 weeks ago I would have said Undertaker/Orton was a little better.
Show/Sumo Guy - LOL.
Cena/JBL - *LOL*.
Batista/HHH - Decent match, great moment for Batista.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

WM21:

Eddie/Rey - Eh. Don't like either.
MITB I - Arguably the best MITB.
Undertaker/Orton - One of Orton's best matches imo.
Trish/Christy - Decent if I recall correctly.
HBK/Angle - Fantastic ****+ match.
Show/Bono - LOL.
Cena/JBL - Spoiler: Cena gets beatdown, does his comeback, wins. DUD
Batista/HHH - Decent match that is often shitted on.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

HIAC at Vengeance was better, but the Mania match was more than respectable. Batista looked like a beast.

And i often wonder who booked the Cena/JBL match? It really just never took off, and then it was over before it built to any kind of climax.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HIAC at Vengeance was awesome, Backlash match was building up to be awesome but then Batista forgot what selling was and killed the whole thing, and WM was decent but nothing that good imo. Could have been worse though, could have been Cena/JBL. Possibly the worst title match in WM history. And yeah, I'm including ALL title matches. Even Kane/Chavo (which is better by default because Chavo lost super fast!), Hogan/Yoko (the "surprise moment" factor makes it better. By almost zero, but enough to not be as bad as Cena/JBL )... and Cena/Miz 8*D


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

KingCal said:


> HIAC at Vengeance was awesome, Backlash match was building up to be awesome but then Batista forgot what selling was and killed the whole thing, and WM was decent but nothing that good imo. Could have been worse though, could have been Cena/JBL. Possibly the worst title match in WM history. And yeah, I'm including ALL title matches. Even Kane/Chavo (which is better by default because Chavo lost super fast!), Hogan/Yoko (the "surprise moment" factor makes it better. By almost zero, but enough to not be as bad as Cena/JBL )... and Cena/Miz 8*D


I'd agree with Cena/JBL and Cena/Miz being the worst Wrestlemanai title matches of all time. Just utterly average in every way.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Backlash 2000
> WrestleMania 19
> WrestleMania 24
> WrestleMania 26
> ...


Great thanks. Im trying to build my ppv collection up. Those are all pretty good. I have a couple of those. Two of the best In Your Houses for sure.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*Bret Hart vs. Razor Ramon (Royal Rumble 1995)*

This was an amazing match. Fantastic heel/face dynamics, Bret is over as fuck, and watching him in the ring is a thing of beauty. Ramon is one helluva heel, of course. God, he was so fucking great. This was a MOTYC, with great storytelling, smart tactics and strategies from both of them. The selling was top notch too.
*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Backlash 2000*

*WWF Tag Team Championships:* Edge and Christian vs. D-Generation X (Road Dogg and X-Pac) - ***
*Light Heavyweight Championship:* Dean Malenko vs. Scotty-2-Hotty - ***1/2 _(I always found S2H very underrated when given a chance, was over as fuck as well)_
*Tag Team Match:* Big Bossman and Bull Buchanon vs. The APA - **/12 _(Might not be much, but its a fun brawl)_
*WWF Hardcore Championship:* Crash Holly vs. Tazz vs. Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Hardcore Holly vs. Perry Saturn - *** _(A heap of fun)_
*Grudge Match:* The Big Showe vs. Kurt Angle - Not even going to bother rating it :lmao
*Tag Team Match:* The Dudley Boyz vs. T&A - *** _(How funny were those Trish promos, taunting Bubba Ray by the way :lmao Entertaining mini-feud)_
*WWF European Championship:* Eddie Guerrero vs. Essa Rios - **3/4 _(a fair few botches and mistakes brought this down)_
*WWF Intercontinental Championship:* Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho - ****
*WWF Championship:* Triple H vs. The Rock - ****1/2

*Overall PPV rating:* ****1/2
_Now that may not make sense if you average out the match ratings, but that's not what I was rating on. I wasn't rating on the match quality, I was rating on entertainment value and this PPV had a whole heck of that. I didn't skip one bit, which is very unusual, and it is just generally a great PPV. It's normally remembered just for HHH/Rock and maybe Benoit/Jericho, but there were some hidden gems in there such as Malenko/S2H, Dudleys/T&A and even E&C/DX was good. Definitely one of the best PPVs ever, as far as I'm concerned especially considering how bad Wrestlemania was, that came before it.This kickstarted the best 14 months in Wrestling history, IMO, (Baklash 2000 - KOTR 2001) and boy, what a way do do it. If nobody has watched this PPV, I highly recommend you do so ASAP - even if it's just watching the matches._


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My all time favourite PPV, and second only to WM 19 as the best imo. I remember when it finally came up for pre-order on Silvervision; I was giddy as... I dunno, something super giddy. Not often I pre-order DVDs because I tend to wait and hope they go on offer, but I made sure to get THAT tagged classic set asap.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

ECW 2006
Big Show vs. Ric Flair- ***3/4

Unforgiven 2007
Candice Michelle vs. Beth Phoenix- ***

WWF Metal
Christian vs. Low Ki- **1/4

Wrestlemania XIX
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio- ***1/2

Wrestlemania XIX
Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon- ****1/2

Bad Blood 2004
Chris Benoit vs. Kane- ***1/2

ECW 2010
Christian vs. Ezekiel Jackson- **1/4

No Way Out 2003
Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy- ***1/2

Survivor Series 2003
Kane vs. Shane McMahon- ****

Judgment Day 2000
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho- ****

RAW 2003
Trish Stratus vs. Victoria- ***3/4

Unforgiven 1998
Stone Cold vs. Dude Love- ****1/4


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

KingCal said:


> WM 21:
> 
> Eddie/Rey - Urgh. Worst. Eddie Match. Ever.
> MITB I - Best. MITB Match. Ever.
> ...


I thought you hated HBK/Angle


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redeadening said:


> I thought you hated HBK/Angle


Never hated the match, always rated it around ****1/4, but there were parts I really didn't like which prevented me from thinking it was a 5 star classic and GOAT like a lot of people do. The back work that ends up going nowhere still annoys the fuck out of me, but the Ankle Lock stuff actually made sense to me when I watched it a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> Never hated the match, always rated it around ****1/4, but there were parts I really didn't like which prevented me from thinking it was a 5 star classic and GOAT like a lot of people do. The back work that ends up going nowhere still annoys the fuck out of me, but the Ankle Lock stuff actually made sense to me when I watched it a couple of weeks ago.


I also rate Angle/Michaels around the **** star range. As a matter of fact, I probably have it no more than ****. It's nowhere near ***** for me because of those same reasons you listed. But the match that jus sucked between these two for me is the 30 minute iron man match. Good Lord, it's an average match at is best and I probably give it ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't think their Iron Man match sucked (and giving it ***1/2 for a match you thought sucked is a little... odd ), but agreed it was average. A match that DID suck between them was this one:

*Kurt Angle Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 16/01/2006*

Angle got beat last week in the tag match thanks to Shawn, then he went to SD and became WHC. LOL.

Oh, and if HBK loses, he s fired.

Raw might have the more "unpredictable" feeling being live, but at least SD can edit shit so matches don't start during a commercial fucking break. Only on the third Raw of the year and its already happened like, 3 times lol.

Typical back and forth stuff that you would expect based on their previous matches, until Divari gets involved and causes HBK to fall out of the ring. He gets superkicked for his troubles, but Angle runs up behind HBK and hits the Angle Slam (his finisher btw) on THE FLOOR. Oh joy, commercial break... and the match is still going because a finisher on the floor isn't enough.

Speaking of finishers not being enough... an Angle Slam from the fucking ropes doesn't even end it. Only one thing to do now, random Ankle Lock! And yep, there it is lol! HBK escapes a few attempts, but Angle finally locks it in as Divari looks on and laughs... only to get slapped in the face. Poor guy keeps getting his face attacked, so he runs in with a chair, accidentally hits Angle with it allowing Michaels to get the win.

Yeah, didn't like this at all. Angle is as dumb as ever and honestly HBK doesn't really bring... anything to the match to try and save it either, other than a couple of shots to Divari just for the hell of it. Can't believe I gave this ***1/2 before...

*Rating: 1/2**


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

It has Kurt and Shawn. By mathematical logic it should be atleast 5 stars


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Angle/HBK from Mania is a damn fucking awesome match. I have it at ****3/4. It's maybe too high for some, but the storytelling simply smokes all the flaws. 

Btw, I hate when smarks take apart a match (moves mostly), and go "Why did he go that route, why did he do this instead of that, he should've stay here instead of going there, he needed to duck/block it, he did a C before B, etc." It's hilarious really, because people complain about storytelling and talk about spot monkeys, and at the same time they write about SPOTS in their reviews. Mostly. Double standards suck.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Spots are pretty awesome. id be lying if i said otherwise. Triple H spinebusting Taker through the table was fricking epic

But they need context though. Like Taker vs Edge TLC match.

It was just spots, and setting up spots. It was retarded


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Angle/Michaels from 'Mania 21 is a classic. Their other matches suck. A lot of people like and prefer their Vengeance 2005 match; personally, I've never witnessed a more boring and uninspiring match from Michaels than that one.

Batista/Hunter at 'Mania 21 isn't great from a wrestling standpoint, but it's a monumental match because it defined the term of elevating somebody to the main picture of WWE and garnering a true moment for a wrestler. The entire feud is the greatest "put-over" feud I've ever seen. I like their feud a lot and all their matches have been very good to me, with the HIAC match being an absolute classic and my MOTY for 2005.

On the Angle talk, his best match is the one against Michaels; then there is Rumble '03 and the Austin match from SummerSlam '01. The match against 'Taker at NWO '06 such an epic match. Let's also not forget the Iron Man match against Lesnar. I'm also fond of the Unforgiven '02 match against Benoit, the subsequent tag team match at No Mercy 2002, and Angle's title defense against Triple H at Rumble '01.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Best Kurt Angle match is vs Undertaker. Easily. What a match. Definition of a title classic

Hate his Royal Rumble match with Benoit though. Not because of the spottiness, mainly since it wasnt spotty. It was a clinic. unfortunately for me it was too clinical. Halfway through I started wondering if I was watching two guys fight or ballet


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

redeadening said:


> Best Kurt Angle match is vs Undertaker. Easily. What a match. Definition of a title classic
> 
> Hate his Royal Rumble match with Benoit though. Not because of the spottiness, mainly since it wasnt spotty. It was a clinic. unfortunately for me it was too clinical. Halfway through I started wondering if I was watching two guys fight or ballet


Agreed on Angle/Taker being Kurt's best match(singles at least) and I'd have Kurt/Austin from Summerslam 01 at number 2.

As for the Benoit match, I do love it, and I do think it's one of Angle's best matches. However, I do wish those two would've had a match with a real face/heel dynamic. Seemed as though every time those two locked up, they did the whole competitive/who's the better wrestler etc etc type of match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

A-DoubleBaby! said:


> Seemed as though every time those two locked up, they did the whole competitive/who's the better wrestler etc etc type of match.


Because that was their story.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched WM 22 last night.

Carlito/Masters vs Big Show/Kane - **
MITB II - ***1/2
Benoit/JBL - ***1/4
Edge/Foley - ****1/4
Boogeyman/Booker - DUD
Mickie/Trish - ***1/2
Taker/Henry - **3/4
HBK/Vince - **** (I know most people aren't high on this but I love it)
Mysterio/Orton/Angle - ***1/2
Torrie/Candice - DUD
Triple H/Cena - ***1/2

Hadn't watched Trips/Cena in ages. Started off really slow but picked up at the end. Still like the NOC and Raw '09 matches much more from them.

Still tied as my favorite Mania with 24.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redeadening said:


> Spots are pretty awesome. id be lying if i said otherwise. Triple H spinebusting Taker through the table was fricking epic
> 
> But they need context though. Like Taker vs Edge TLC match.
> 
> It was just spots, and setting up spots. It was retarded


To me the spottiest of all TLC matches is TLC I and TLC II. Both matches were nothing but "OMG HE JUST FELL 20 FEET INTO 4 TABLES!!"

In TLC I there was this one thing that was just bugging me. There were 2 tables set up at ringside. Devon, as usual, went to get some wood. Now, logically speaking here he would just go for the tables that were already set up since he's walking in the direction of them. Instead, he just walks past it and goes up further the ramp to get the table. It immediately gave away the fact that some shit was gonna happen. The other thing that bugged me was how coming down to the end it just became a game of who can fall through the most tables.

TLC II suffered the same stupid fate as TLC I. Once again, it's all about who can fall into tables. The only thing that I liked (loved) was Edge spearing Hardy. Such a badass moment. Everything else was just spot after spot. Not to mention the stupid swerve ending with Rhyno interfering. Both TLC I and II are just mindless spotfests that are only interesting on the initial viewing. 

As for favourite Wrestlemanias, I don't know. WM X-7 hasn't aged well and people who say it's the best are just carrying on the talk or they simply truly believe that. But for me it's hard to chose between WM 19 and 24 as my favorurite.

WM 22 is a very, very fun Wrestlemania. There were a lot of fun gimmick matches that just made it a fun event. I also realize are lot of people aren't too high on Vince/HBK but from what I remember (haven't seen the match since 2006) it was freaking awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I agree that X-7 hasn't aged too well. I still enjoy it but there are others I have over it. 19 is my third favorite. Loved that show. XX had some overly awesome stuff but at points it dragged too.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I can agree that WM 17 is not the best in terms of "pure" quality (it never was, tbh), but it's still the most entertaining one. There was just something in the air. 

Match quality? Not the best one. But the entertainment value? Fuck yes.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels Vengeance 2005*
Okay, first off I'm sorry that I ever was once told Angle was GOAT and I believed it. The guy's matches are based sole on his german and belly to belly suplexes, top rope high spots and a million counters to the ankle lock. Everything else in between is pure filler. The matches starts off with Angle working the LEFT arm of Michaels. Michaels goes outside, recovers the arm gets back in. The two face off . Angle does his traditional slaps away the arm and charges towards his opponent to psyche the opponent. This time he goes to target the RIGHT arm. fpalm Howeverm after slapping away the right arm he then proceeds to takedown HBK and work the leg. A couple minutes later the two are outside and Angle hits a german suplex onto the announce table. Now he's working the back. This next move bothered me. Angle sends Shawn off the ropes and puts him in a sleeperhold. Why? Why not an abdomial stretch? Why not lef trip him and put in a boston crab? You were working his BACK. So HBK suplex Angle off of him while in the side headlock. Gets the momentum shift but Angle throws him over the rope and he hits his knee on the floor. After that the next three minutes were Angle lock fest!!! The match ends with Angle not even bothering to go back to the ankle, instead he goes top the top rope but HBK connects with SCM as he jumps off.

****3/4 for the entertaining spots and it was a decent match bar the stupid psychology. *


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

JoeRulz said:


> Because that was their story.


I am aware of that and as I said I love their RR 03 match. Like I said, I would have liked to see them do something different.

As for Mania 17, I will agree that objectively it isn't the best mania. However, it still holds up for me as my favourite of all time and I'm perfectly willing to admit that a lot of that is probably the nostalgia factor.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

A-DoubleBaby! said:


> Agreed on Angle/Taker being Kurt's best match(singles at least) and I'd have Kurt/Austin from Summerslam 01 at number 2.
> 
> As for the Benoit match, I do love it, and I do think it's one of Angle's best matches. However, I do wish those two would've had a match with a real face/heel dynamic. *Seemed as though every time those two locked up, they did the whole competitive/who's the better wrestler etc etc type of match.*


TBH, that is what I loved most about Angle/Benoit. They were fighting for the WWE Championship, and the match as a whole felt like it was a real match between two men to crown the champion. Nothing felt unrealistic, and everything just flowed perfectly. It's a 5 star classic in my book and in the top 5 best matches of all time for me (for the record, along with Taker/HBK HIAC and WM25, and Hart/Austin WM13).

After that, Angle's best matches are:

2) vs. Taker NWO06
3) vs. Taker SD03
4) vs. Austin Summerslam 2001

All three are close to 5 stars. I probably would put the SD 03 match at 5 stars if it had a proper finish like the NWO06 match, but the finish always leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Same with his match against Austin Summerslam 2001.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Just watched Undertaker vs. Batista @ WM 23 for the first time on DVD since watching it live on PPV because of this thread.

Really good match. I remember marking out so much when Taker finally got Batista in the tombstone and beat him. It was a roller coaster ride of a match watching it live.

Still a good one watching it today.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels Vengeance 2005*


I was disappointed in this one. Seeing those names I expected a thriller of a match, but the minutes went by and it was like nothing had happened. Failed to connect on any level, and that usually happens when I'm tired or distracted so I watched it twice for good measure and nope. Forgettable by their standards IMO

The overall show is actually pretty good though.

Carlito v Shelton was good. Shelton Benjamin is just so damned athletic, man. Kane v Edge was better than I thought it'd be, except the Snitsky interferences were literally the most random thing ever. Can't say I paid attention to the diva's match, although they did go for time (that was probably all Victoria's work, though.) Triple threat match was okay, although it was awkward noticing how Jericho and Christian were leading him through it so much.

I dropped a 5* rating on the main event earlier in the thread and to elaborate on it... wow. There's a special kind of match that comes along once in a while that completely sucks you in and makes you forget. I knew Batista was winning this one, but it didn't stop me from legit gasping at some of these false finishes. This match had some of the best usage and selling of weapons I've seen. The chain seemed bad enough, but then they brought out the weapon of death - steel chair wrapped in barbed wire - and things just got insane. They had the finish with the Batista Bomb where HHH picks up the sledgehammer and it was actually the death of me. I don't actually do many star ratings, and this is the only match that I've actually given an undoubted 5/5 to.

Why do people say Batista was a bad wrestler? He never struck me as such, and this match proved to me that he was more than capable of holding his own in a match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If I still used star ratings I'd probably hand out like **1/4 to Michaels v Angle from Vengeance. I don't remember enough of Mania to comment on that but I'd be shocked if I thought it was four stars or more. 

Vengeance HIAC should hold up. Always loved that one.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Cmon now, Angle/HBK from Vengeance may not be a 5 star classic, but damn, its also not **1/4 or whatever you want to use. Same goes for Taker/Mankind HIAC and Flair/HBK WM 24 match for exmaple. These matches get overrated by a few people, and then everybody underrates them by giving them super low ratings and trying to make them sound shitty.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Falling off four tables from 20 feet high is something very special because you don't see it happen everyday. Let's not criticize wrestlers for putting their life on the line.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sparta101 said:


> Same goes for Taker/Mankind HIAC and Flair/HBK WM 24 match for exmaple. These matches get overrated by a few people, and then everybody underrates them by giving them super low ratings and trying to make them sound shitty.


IDK how Michaels/Angle is comparable to either of those. It's not a huge spectacle like Taker/Mankind, and it's not an emotional rollercoaster like Flair/Michaels.

I really like those two matches anyway, even if I do think they can be overrated. Michaels/Angle is overrated to me, but I also just legitimately thought it was bad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Wrestlemania XX*

_The Big Show vs John Cena_

Who better than to start off Wrestlemania XX, hyping up the crowd, then John Cena ? Did John Cena even know at this time what he would become I wonder ? Big Show comes out, and we have ourselves a decent but very basic opening contest. Power vs brawling here, as Big Show throws Cena around at the beginning of the match, showing Cena what he's in for. Big Show using power moves like the sidewalk slam and big boot to keep Cena down.

Cena comes back and actually hits the F-U, and the crowd goes nuts. Show actually kicks out of it, and it takes some cheating to put Big Show down for good. Basic Power vs Brawling contest here, I think it was a good choice to open the show because Cena was so hot at the time. Not great, but decent. Ending was nice.

*** 1/4*

_World Tag Title Fatal 4 Way_

Sudden death rules here, I don't see why this match exists other than to get everybody on the card, but whatever. Cade,Jindrak, and La Resistance are so sloppy in this match, but it's The Dudley Boyz and Booker/RVD that make this match somewhat decent and watchable. This is a mess as the action is everywhere and nobody knows where to focus. Scissors kick and 5 star end this quickly. Short match, nothing spectacular, total filler match. Not a bad match at all, just don't know why it exists.

****

_Christian vs Chris Jericho_

Okay, so I openly like this match alot. Former partners going at it here, we start off fast paced, with a ton of reverses by both men. They are really getting it across here that these two are equal, with neither being able to gain the advantage. Both men take MAJOR bumps to the outside (they seriously look painful as hell) and this is STILL equal. That front facelock slam just made me cringe, it looked like it was severely painful.

Christian working on the knees of Jericho here, and following through with his psychology, slaps on the Texas Cloverleaf (Malenko FTW), but Jericho somehow reverses this into the walls. That was a fantastic counter. Crazy double underhook from the top gets two, as Trish runs in and gets thrown down by Christian. The distraction causes Christian to roll up Jericho for the win (Trish turns heel after the match). FANTASTIC story being told here, as Trish was the X factor that broke the equality between the two men. The fast pace and stiff moves didn't hurt either. Borderline CLASSIC.

******

_Evolution vs Rock 'N' Sock Connection_

This isn't a great match by any means. However, this match proves to be one of the more entertaining contests I've seen, fans are going crazy for The Rock in this one. It's weird to see all of these combinations (Rock vs Batista, Rock vs Orton), but the chemistry isn't bad. For his last match in the company in a while, Rock isn't mailing it in unlike SOME people (We'll get to that later). Rock struts like Flair as I laugh because well....It's entertaining to say the least. Flair does his basic schtick here and the crowd eats it up, even his typical "being thrown off the top rope" gimmick gets the crowd crazy.

There are WAY too many clotheslines in this match. Foley takes a knee to the steps for the 65464th time in his career here, and wow.....Orton has his boring chinlock on Foley, this completely kills the momentum of the match. Rock is strutting WAYY too much here for my liking. This isn't really a match, but an entertainment fest mind you. Finishers galore, and Orton wins this with an RKO to Foley. This wasn't so much a match as it was a way to put the young guys over. Technically it was bad, but at the same time VERY entertaining. I'm going to be generous to this one.

**** 1/4*

_Playboy Evening Gown Match_

I have very little to say about this one. The wrestling sucked but all of the Divas looked extremely hot here. The crowd (mainly males) looked like they were going to jizz themselves when they saw this match. Gave the crowd something different, and a breather (which is needed for this long event). Harmless really.....DAMN they're sexy. Oh well, points for hotness keep this from "DUD" land.

*1/4**

_Cruiserweight Open Match_

I'm not a big fan of these gaunlet matches, but this one (while making absolutely no sense in terms of story and psychology) is just so damned entertaining and spotty that I just enjoy it. What can I say about this match ? People are getting pinned left, right, and center, as these things need about 30 minutes to work, but they're actually getting 10 minutes to pin 9 people...Okay then. There are many cool looking spots and high flying action in this though, for example, Ultimo Dragon and Billy Kidman are flying all over the place like there's no tomorrow.

No story, no psychology, just SPOTS. Rey gets pinned to give the match to Chavo, despite being in the ring for less than two minutes...Are you kidding me. That's the problem here: this would NOT happen in a real match. Plus, CHAVO WINS ? You couldn't give Rey (the much more marketable star) the win on the big stage ? You have to be KIDDING me. Oh well, this might be worth it just for Kidman's sitout powerbomb. Extremely entertaining, but mindless.

*** 1/2*

_Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar_

Oh we had to get to this one didn't we ? The truth about this match is that the crowd really dosen't give them a chance in this one. Right from the get-go we hear chants such as "You Sold Out" and "HOGAN! HOGAN!". So the crowd is chanting for Hogan in 2004 ? Okay then. They just stand there and stand there, and after almost THREE MINUTES they lock up. The lock-up lasts another 45 seconds with neither man gaining an advantage. I actually kinda like that as it shows them as equals. After about 6-7 minutes, a Goldberg military press slam wakes the crowd up. After that we get some GLIMPSES of what this match should have been like, clotheslines and slams, etc. 

Even Steve Austin looked pissed at what happened. Honestly, this match is a horrible disgrace to put on Wrestlemania, but I don't think it's a DUD. That's the best compliment I can give. The first 7 minutes of the crowd is entertainingly bad and the last half of the match, while bad, has it's moments. I'd actually watch it again, as it's probably the best under * match I'll ever see. Goldberg wins this after an exchange of finishers, although it really lacked drama.

*1/2**

_WWE Tag Title Fatal 4 Way_

Another filler tag match that should have been on a B-level show (or possibly Smackdown), but we have to get these guys on the show, so why not give the fans a breather ? Let me sum this match up in a few sentences: The Bashams were boring as hell in this, Too Cool were WAY past there prime at this point, The WGTT was fucking awesome and should have one this match, while the APA had Bradshaw, the man who would be WWE Champion in 3 months. Isn't THAT crazy to think about ? Anyways, this match was short but sweet, especially when the APA and WGTT got together, I love the brawling vs technical aspect. Too Cool (who haven't meant anything in years) wins this in Rikishi's last hurrah at Wrestlemania.

****

_Molly Holly vs Victoria_

This is hair vs hair here, and it's ALL about the angle. These two start off with some simple moves like wristlocks and snapmares, trying to gain an advantage, but then all of a sudden they're cranking it up to 200 MPH doing superplexes and powerbombs. Next thing I know, Victoria gets the pin and the match is over ? What can I even say about this. I just watched it and it flew by like nothing. FIVE MINUTES LONG. Oh well. This wasn't very good, but it deserves some credit for a few decent minutes of matwork.

***

_Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle_

WWE Championship on the line here. Great chain wrestling sequence to start us off here, as it gives Eddie a chance to say "Hey Kurt, I can be technical too". Judo throw and side headlock by Angle, but Eddie manages to get a body scissors to neutralize Angle. I just love subtle things like that. The crowd is just eating up this mat-wrestling, as they go crazy for a Guerrero fireman's carry and keylock. Oh yeah, you KNEW we had to get an Angle German suplex in this one (comes off the reversal of the three amigos, nice counter). Here's your first bump as Eddie dives chest first into the outside railing. A good mix of action and wrestling here.

Angle begins to see an opening here and works on the midsection. Using impact moves such as belly to belly's, Angle grabs the momentum. Eddie has an opportunity to gain the momentum back, but loses it quickly as he misses a frog splash. Love how quickly the momentum can change in this one. They hit each other with some clenched fists and Eddie wants more (reminiscent of earlier in the storyline, makes a ton of sense), and the two exchange suplexes. Angle ALWAYS has a counter for the triple vertical suplexes. Just like in NWO, Eddie counters a finisher into a DDT and hits the frog splash, only this time Angle kicks out. GREAT near fall. Angle gets the ankle lock here, but Eddie escapes, unties his boot, and one of my favorite endings to a match ensues. Angle goes for the angle lock but the boot comes off, Eddie plays possum and rolls Angle up for the win. This fit Eddie's character GENIUSLY. Love this match very much. An absolute classic.

***** 1/4*

_Undertaker vs Kane_

Not the best match in the universe, but damn this is a FANTASTIC moment. You can say all the shit in the world about this match, but if you never marked out for the "OHHH YESSS" from Paul Bearer, or the first glimpse of the deadman, you should get your pulse checked out. This also has one of my favorite beginnings to a match ever, as Kane can't believe this is real, goes to touch Taker, and Taker goes absolutely haywire on him. I might be the only person who gets goosebumps watching that opening sequence, but I absolutely love it. 

Kane gets in a few shots here but this is a complete squash as it should be. Kane gets like 3 moves, and it's all Taker from that point out. The situp and tombstone had me marking like a bitch. I don't really care if the "match" is bad, but this segment as an entire was awesome. The deadman lives (what an oxymoron) on at WM XX, and it was fucking awesome.

****

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit_

Main event time, here we go. Opening exchange is great, as both HBK and Benoit play into Triple H's plan that "Their ego's will tear them apart". HHH comes back in when he feels he has the best chance of taking advantage, and gains control of the match. Subtle things in this match (like Benoit ramming his shoulder into HHH's gut twice, only to try a third time and have Trips stick his knee out, destroying Benoit) match it work smoothly. HHH and Benoit get outside the ring as we get WM main event spot # 1: A Shawn Michaels moonsault outside the ring. That was fantastic. There are many finisher attempts and many saves here, as the drama is at an all time high here.

DAMN those rolling Germans are awesome, nobody does them better than Benoit. Shawn gets launched into the post as we have my only problem with this match: Shawn's bladejob. For the love of god, he went head first into the post, and he looks as if he was chainsaw massacred. That dosen't make me think twice about this match though, as we get a great moment where Shawn wants to tap but HHH grabs his hand. This is the turning point of the match, as both Shawn and HHH realize that Benoit is a crazed animal that they need to neutralize. DX (cool looking visual) puts Benoit through the table. HHH gets busted on the post as well. Okay, WHAT IS UP WITH THOSE BLADEJOBS ? Well, these two ARE close to Ric Flair.

God Damn this is intense. All three hit their finishers and save each other as the match gets closer to its end. Benoit is somehow still alive and reverses the SCM, backdropping Shawn out of the ring. In one of the most dramatic moments I've ever seen, Triple H is waiting behind him saying "bring it". Now, at this point I'm guessing 99 percent of people watching this were saying "THAT DAMN HHH! HE'S GOING TO BURY ANOTHER PUSH ! FUCK YOU!" but Benoit actually reverses the pedigree into a crossface, in which HHH eventually taps. What can I say about this match that hasn't already been said ? It's a piece of ART, from top to bottom. The slow build, subtle psychology, amazing false-finishes, and PERFECT drama makes this one of the greatest matches of all time, in my humble opinion of course. What a way to end Wrestlemania XX, with Benoit and Guerrero on top of the world.

*******

_Thoughts_

This is one of the hardest shows I've ever had to grade for a few reasons, so lets run down the card quickly. A decent crowd pumping opener, a filler tag match, a borderline classic, an entertainment fest, a hot divas match, an entertaining but nonsensical cruiserweight bout, an entertainingly fuck-fest that was Lesnar-Goldberg, ANOTHER filler tag, ANOTHER angle fueled women's match, the return of the Undertaker, and two CLASSIC championship matches. All of that happened in one show. The thing about this show is that it's good but it can get tiresome. If you break up watching it into two two-hour sessions, It'll be alot smoother for you.

I like it though, as even the bad matches tend to be entertaining. I could have went without the tag matches and the cruiserweight matches to cut a good 40 minutes off of this, maybe even the Victoria-Molly match. You cut 40-50 minutes off of this and it's a MASTERPIECE of a show and one of the best mania's ever. However, you can't dismiss the bad stuff on this show. Definitely more good then bad, and for Wrestlemania XX, I thought it lived up to expectations. This show just has that special feel to it. It's undescribeable really...

*7/10*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree KOK that camera shot of Triple H behind Benoit before the finish was so good. At that moment I thought Triple H was going to hit the Pedigree and win. Then Benoit turned it into the Crossface and they played with the tap out finish. JR was terrific on commentary too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They were chanting Hogan during Lesnar/Goldberg because there was some guy in the crowd dressed like him making a scene and people thought he was the real Hogan lol. Man, the crazy things you remember from news reports all these years later .

Also, I hate that handicap match. Foley was out of shape, Rock was never that good anyway, Batista was still green as hell, Flair was only occasionally putting in decent performances in the ring at the time and this wasn't one of them. Orton was still pretty green but was the only guy who looked half decent in the match imo. Hardly any entertainment value in it for me .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM20 Ratings (for matches I remember):

Show/Cena: **
Jericho/Christian: ****
Evolution/Rock n' sock: **1/2
Goldberg/Lesnar: 1/4* 
Eddie/Kurt: ****
Taker/Kane: **3/4
HBK/Benoit/HHH: ****1/2

A few notes:

-Jericho/Christian was such a great match.
-Goldberg/Lesnar gets *1/4 from me because of the crowd.
-Taker/Kane was interesting as it was the opposite of their first WM match where Kane dominated Taker 90% of the time, took three tombstones to put down, and it was a long match (relative to WM20). WM20 obviously wasn't as good, but I'd say it was a good match as it was short, sweet, and to the point. Perfect return for the deadman character.
-Main Event is the best triple threat of all time, and one of the best main events of all time for Mania. A true work of art and a very enjoyable ride from start to finish. The ending, not only to the match, but to this Mania, is the greatest ending in WM history imo.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I remember that Playboy "tag" match as even being disappointing for what little I was expecting of it.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Rock imitating Flair and Flair being hilarious was pretty nice


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Was bored last night and popped in Epic Journey of Dwayne Johnson Blu-ray to look at some of the matches that are features and saw Shamrock vs. Mankind vs. Rock Steel Cage match @ Break Down for the first time.

Really good match. Nice moves by all three men the whole match. The Rock was coming into his own during this time and the crowd was all Rock. They would boo Mankind and Shamrock every time they would hit him it was funny.

Saw a little of pre-Rock 'n' Sock during this whenever Rock and Mankind would team up to beat up Shamrock.

Funny when Rock would have his moment teaming up with either Mankind or Shamrock to beat someone in the match whenever either one of them would turn his back on The Rock, Rock would make a :fly: face and then hit the person he was teaming with a second ago behind his back, and the crowd was totally popping for Rock like crazy.

LOL

Foley also does a crazy spot where he can win the match then decides to climb the top of the cage and tries to copy Jimmy Snuka with the crazy body drop on The Rock. He does it but then Rock moves out of the way at the last second LOL

Crazy drop.

Not really a big fan of steel cage matches but this is one of my favorites. All three men worked really well together. I also love the spot where Shamrock does an abdominal stretch on Mankind then Rock is getting up from being hit then he does another :fly: face behind Shamrock/Mankind then he also puts Shamrock into an abdominal stretch and it becomes a triple abdominal strech. LOL Crazy... 

Rating: 8/10 (Sorry, I suck at star ratings.)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Btw, I hate when smarks take apart a match (moves mostly), and go "Why did he go that route, why did he do this instead of that, he should've stay here instead of going there, he needed to duck/block it, he did a C before B, etc." It's hilarious really, because people complain about storytelling and talk about spot monkeys, and at the same time they write about SPOTS in their reviews. Mostly. Double standards suck.


Totally agree with that. Im far from a smark. Id like to think I know quite a bit but Im not an expert by any means. I'm a fan and like some stuff but don't like other stuff. I dont pretend to think I know everything. As long as Im entertained thats all that matters. Wrestling is SOOOO objective. Few things and opinions are black and white.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Doing a little mini project here for mania, I'm going to rank all of the Wrestlemania main events from worst to best. Just finished up the WM XI main event, and I'm not going to reveal my in-depth rankings until I'm finished later this week but here are a few random observations:

- Hogan/Andre and the WM I tag are both MEH, while I enjoyed the Hogan/Bundy cage and Hogan/Slaughter matches quite a bit, but since I enjoy spectacle, Hogan/Andre and the WM I tag get elevated quite a bit, especially the former even though it's a piece of garbage by all rights 

- I have the WM 5 & 6 main events on even plateau, even if it seems as though a majority of people prefer the latter match.

- Sid yelling like a crazed maniac and the crowd in the hoosier dome being nuts for Hogan make the WM VIII main event somewhat watchable. I mean, damn. At times Sid was the MAN !

- Why was WM XI in Hartford Conneticut? The crowd was absolutely horrendous and it felt like a house show. Shame because the main event is actually watchable. BAD, but watchable.

- Bret was flat out AWESOME in the WM IX main event. The energy he brings to that match makes it a very good/great watch to me, if only for a 9-10 minute main event. Completely underrated performance IMHO.

- Gonna take an hour break and then watch the...SIGH...Ironman match. I'm actually curious to see how it holds up to me right now. Last watch I had it about **** 1/4* but we'll see now, won't we ?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Does anyone buy from ioffer.com? Website I found this past week that sells wrestling dvds (and other stuff) cheap. Found a great deal on WWF/E DVDs. Anyone use it and if so good or bad? Thabks in advance. 

As for your project King of Kings.....

Savage/DiBiase is an underrated Mania main event. Short yes but still awesome. If they would have got like 17-18 mins it could have been one of the best WM main events ever.

If the rumors are not tru and we dont get Punk V Austin at Mania next year Im hoping for Punk/Bryan which has the potential to be one of the best main events ever at a WM down the road.


----------



## speedkills (Jul 21, 2010)

I've used Ioffer quite a bit. I haven't had any problems and you can get pretty much any show you can think of, and cheap too.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah it looks almost too good to be true. Hope it works out for me. I'm about to buy a shit ton of old PPVs.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*HHH v Batista v Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho v Edge v Randy Orton (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution 2005*
This is IMO the best Elimination Chamber match in the WWE. The thing I realized while watching this match was is how much WWE puts into telling a story with their matches and how the match is built around the story going into it rather than a move for move sequence. It's very important to know the story going into this match, it adds so much more to the experience. Basically, at this point in time Orton had left Evolution for some months and just loathed Triple H and wanted that chance to recapture World Heavyweight Gold. Batista was showing signs of turning his back on HHH as there was a Beat The Clock Challenege to determine who would enter last, in which Batista beat Triple H's time. A backstage altercation between Orton and Batista the night of the event reveals Batista's intentions to seize the opportunity and take the world title off The Game, however, Batista reassures Triple H that he has no such intentions and said that just to play with Orton's mind and not give out his strategy- a strategy thought to him by The Nature Boy himself. Batista reminds the game though that nothing can stop him from winning the world title if Triple H is eliminated early before leaving the dressing room. 

The match starts off with Benoit and Jericho doing what they do best. Both men just wrestle with one another and tease their submission signature moves for the first 5 minutes of the match until Triple H enters the match where he introduces the chamber itself as a weapon, busting Benoit open. Jericho then tosses Triple H to the outside, Triple H's back connecting with steel. Edge then enters as number 4. Several sounds of flesh slamming into steel later and Orton enters as entrant number 5 in an impressive showing. Orton clears house and directly goes for Triple H slamming him into the chamber and whipping his ass all over. Jericho attempts a move but Orton, out of nowhere, delivers an RKO. He goes to deliver one to Benoit when he counters into the crippler crossface. Triple H taunts Orton slapping him in the face as Benoit applies pressure. Benoit then release the hold and goes for The Game, putting him in the sharpshooter. Orton, however, breaks the hold signifying that he wants to be the one to eliminate the game. As Orton tries to recuperate the injured shoulder, Edge sizes his up for a Spear only for Orton to duck causing Edge to Spear referee Shawn Michaels. Edge later spears Orton but is unable to eliminate him. He then wakes up HBK slapping in the face causing Shawn Michaels to hit Edge some Sweet Chin Music. Jericho then hits the Lionsault eliminating Edge.

Several moments later Benoit climbs to the top of one of the pods and delivers his signature flying headbutt onto Triple H. Jericho then puts The Game in The Walls Of Jericho while Benoit locks in the Crippler Crossface. The Game manages to endure the pain for 10 seconds as an angry Batista soon enters destroying everyone in this path. From here the match starts to slow down a bit. It was just this down period that could have been handled better. Nonetheless, Batista spinebusters Benoit then proceeds to deliver a spinebuster to Jericho on top of Benoit, eliminating Benoit. Chris Jericho is later eliminated via a Batista Bomb. 

At this point, Batista and Triple H begin to team up on Randy Orton. A busted open Randy Orton tries his best to fight off both men in the ring but Batista sets him up for the Batista Bomb. Orton, however, delivers a low blow followed by the RKO eliminating Batista. The match comes down to Orton and Triple H. Orton who is about to win, is quickly ambushed by Batista (who didn't leave the chamber immediately after his chamber) as Ric Flair distracts the referee. Triple H then proceeded to deliver the pedigree to Orton retaining his World Heavyweight Championship.

A great match. Perfect storytelling. The only fault this match has is that the cool down period was just lacking. After Edge's elimination the match just fell a bit short. It's not the fact that the match slowed down, it was needed. I just felt that it could have been done a little bit better. Nonetheless, this is IMO the best chamber match. No need to send anyone flying through the glass pods. Just incorporate the storyline into the match. Simple and effective high spots just make it that more memorable and exciting. This match was so damn close to perfection if it just wasn't for the half-assed (they were just getting by) cool down period.

*****3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

NYR 05 Chamber- ****1/2 (Second best chamber match behind the original imo).



> Doing a little mini project here for mania, I'm going to rank all of the Wrestlemania main events from worst to best. Just finished up the WM XI main event, and I'm not going to reveal my in-depth rankings until I'm finished later this week but here are a few random observations:
> 
> - Hogan/Andre and the WM I tag are both MEH, while I enjoyed the Hogan/Bundy cage and Hogan/Slaughter matches quite a bit, but since I enjoy spectacle, Hogan/Andre and the WM I tag get elevated quite a bit, especially the former even though it's a piece of garbage by all rights
> 
> ...


Interesting idea. Can't say I've watched all the WM ME's, but I have seen WM3, WM5, WM6, WM12-WM27... that's 19, I should at least watch one of those ones I haven't to make it an even 20... but meh:

18) Cena vs. Miz WM27 (*1/2) 
17) Undertaker vs. Sid WM13 (*3/4)
16) Orton vs. HHH WM25 (**)
15) Batista vs. HHH WM21 (**1/2)
14) Jericho vs. HHH WM18 (**3/4)
13) Cena vs. HHH WM22 (***1/4)
12) Rock vs. Foley vs. Big Show vs. HHH WM16 (***1/2)
11) Austin vs. Rock WM15 (***3/4)
10) Austin vs. HBK WM14 (****) 
9) HBK vs. Hart WM12 (****)
8) Hogan vs. Warrior WM6 (****)
7) Hogan vs. Savage WM5 (****)
6) Cena vs. HBK WM23 (****)
5) Lesnar vs. Angle WM19 (****1/4)
4) Undertaker vs. Edge WM24 (****1/4)
3) HBK vs. Benoit vs. HHH WM20 (****1/2)
2) Undertaker vs. HBK WM26 (****1/2)
1) Rock vs. Austin WM17 (*****)

Note: Just can't rate Hogan/Andre.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> *HHH v Batista v Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho v Edge v Randy Orton (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution 2005*
> This is IMO the best Elimination Chamber match in the WWE. The thing I realized while watching this match was is how much WWE puts into telling a story with their matches and how the match is built around the story going into it rather than a move for move sequence. It's very important to know the story going into this match, it adds so much more to the experience. Basically, at this point in time Orton had left Evolution for some months and just loathed Triple H and wanted that chance to recapture World Heavyweight Gold. Batista was showing signs of turning his back on HHH as there was a Beat The Clock Challenege to determine who would enter last, in which Batista beat Triple H's time. A backstage altercation between Orton and Batista the night of the event reveals Batista's intentions to seize the opportunity and take the world title off The Game, however, Batista reassures Triple H that he has no such intentions and said that just to play with Orton's mind and not give out his strategy- a strategy thought to him by The Nature Boy himself. Batista reminds the game though that nothing can stop him from winning the world title if Triple H is eliminated early before leaving the dressing room.
> 
> The match starts off with Benoit and Jericho doing what they do best. Both men just wrestle with one another and tease their submission signature moves for the first 5 minutes of the match until Triple H enters the match where he introduces the chamber itself as a weapon, busting Benoit open. Jericho then tosses Triple H to the outside, Triple H's back connecting with steel. Edge then enters as number 4. Several sounds of flesh slamming into steel later and Orton enters as entrant number 5 in an impressive showing. Orton clears house and directly goes for Triple H slamming him into the chamber and whipping his ass all over. Jericho attempts a move but Orton, out of nowhere, delivers an RKO. He goes to deliver one to Benoit when he counters into the crippler crossface. Triple H taunts Orton slapping him in the face as Benoit applies pressure. Benoit then release the hold and goes for The Game, putting him in the sharpshooter. Orton, however, breaks the hold signifying that he wants to be the one to eliminate the game. As Orton tries to recuperate the injured shoulder, Edge sizes his up for a Spear only for Orton to duck causing Edge to Spear referee Shawn Michaels. Edge later spears Orton but is unable to eliminate him. He then wakes up HBK slapping in the face causing Shawn Michaels to hit Edge some Sweet Chin Music. Jericho then hits the Lionsault eliminating Edge.
> ...



FANTASTIC review to one of my favorite matches of all time. This match was just dripping with drama and story. It accomplishes three key things: It draws us to the near end of HHH-Orton, it provides us a segway to the inevitable HHH-Batista feud, and last but certainly not least, IT'S A FUCKING KICK ASS MATCH. Own it on the Satan's Prison DVD, but I just ordered the rest of the 05 DVD's I didn't own, and I can't wait to watch the unedited "Benoit" version of this. Awesome.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So they actually edited Benoit out on the E.Chamber DVD?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They didn't edit out Benoit himself, but all commentary and crowd pops referring to Benoit have been removed from the DVD. just sounds strange hearing NOTHING when he's performing a diving headbutt off the top of the chamber. Not even a crowd pop.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Austin/Rock and HHH/HBK/Benoit are definitely the top two Wrestlemania main events. Not sure which one I'd call the best at this point, it's been a while since I've seen either of them. HBK/Taker at 26 rounds out the top three. What do you guys think will go on last this year? I'm assuming Cena/Rock but HiaC might have a shot.

NYR '05 chamber is fucking awesome.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> They didn't edit out Benoit himself, but all commentary and crowd pops referring to Benoit have been removed from the DVD. just sounds strange hearing NOTHING when he's performing a diving headbutt off the top of the chamber. Not even a crowd pop.


Wow really?

Is this in the WrestleMania Anthology?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mania Anthology came out in 2004/2005, IIRC. 

The editing commentary/crowd thing almost seems counter-productive. I imagine someone who doesn't know who Chris Benoit was might want to know why he has magical superpowers that could mute everything surrounding him.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Austin/Rock is the greatest WrestleMania main event and the second-best WrestleMania match of all time. Benoit/Hunter/Michaels is awesome, awesome, but I have to give the nod to Austin/Rock. The third is Michaels/Undertaker II for sure.

Top-5 for me (main events):

1. Austin/Rock
2. Benoit/Hunter/Michaels
3. Undertaker/Michaels
4. Hunter/Cena
5. Undertaker/Edge


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Im working on a project and would like the help of someone. I'm trying to collect all of the Angle/Benoit matches that were at PPVs. I got Mania 2000, Mania 17, Backlash 01, Insurrextion 01 and Rumble 2003. I think I'm missing 1-2 PPVs where they faced off. Let me know guys. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Judgment Day 2001, Unforgiven 2002, No Mercy 2002 (they were a team but this is an absolute classic), and No Way Out 2003.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

If you're counting them teaming together then Rebellion 02 and Survivor Series 02 aswell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They also had a match at Insurrextion 2000.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

thanks for the help guys....I will prob be ordering thoses PPVs at some point


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have a question regarding WM DVD's. Now, the Tagged Classic versions are the VHS released converted to DVD, and have stuff missing (video packages, interviews etc) that are in the Anthology versions. However, this isn't the case for all of them, just some of the early ones. I want to know though, which ones exactly are missing stuff? WM 1 and 2 I know, I'm unsure about 3 & 4 and anything after that though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> They didn't edit out Benoit himself


I swear when I first read that, I thought it said "They didn't edit out Benoit killing himself"...

:eddie


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

RAW 2/14/05
Randy Orton vs. Christian 

This match is fucking great. You could tell, even all those years ago, that these two have awesome chemistry. I remember watching this when it aired live, before I paid attention to star ratings and it is just as good as the day I first watched it. Christian in full on heel mode with Tomko at his side, while Orton was in the midst of his first failed babyface run. Orton does a great job selling all of Christian's offense, and such a beautiful sequence of counters at the finish. Pretty much all of what made their run of matches in 2011 great. 

***3/4

2/19/07
Money In The Bank Qualifying Match
Edge vs. Rob Van Dam 

This is another match I just really love. I was so happy when I found out it was on Edge's first DVD release. ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So, after much procrasinating, I finally decided to give the WM XII Ironman a watch, just so I could move on with my mini-project here. Not going to give my rating away, but let me say this: It's one of the harder matches I ever had to rate. It has it's big moments and spots, but most of the time it's all restholds and No-selling by Bret.

Picked up Elimination Chamber 2012 today, gonna drop a review of that tomorrow, only 6 matches, so shouldn't take me that long. Not a very good show on the first watch, let's see how it holds up a fe weeks later in great quality ?

Last note, I have 60 dollars CDN left on a pre-paid credit card, and I'm gonna buy some DVDs. My collection SEVERELY lacks OOP DVDs so I might buy the Ringleader's box set, but I'm not sure. Anybody care to recommend 60 dollars worth of DVD's to me ?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I re-watched Undertaker/Hunter again from last year, and it's 5-star all the way. What a match! Feels incredible.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Razor King said:


> I re-watched Undertaker/Hunter again from last year, and it's 5-star all the way. What a match! Feels incredible.


Agreed. A lot of the smarks didn't like it but I enjoyed it a lot as well. If not a 5 star match def 4 stars or higher.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got WM 27 on Bluray the other day and watched Undertaker/HHH too. Nice to see it in HD quality, shame about the entrance music editing . Still thought it was just as awesome as I did on a second watch (didn't enjoy it watching it live though lol).

Just ordered WM 28 :mark:. Jut gotta try and not have super high expectations for the HIAC match otherwise I might be disappointed. Hopefully it'll be like HBK/Undertaker and I'll adore the rematch even more.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Really hating the fact that I have to wait till Tuesday night to watch Wrestlemania. Argh


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

KingCal Opinions on Ron Simmons becoming world champ?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I just finished watching The Epic Journey Of The Rock Blu Ray, so here are a few thoughts.

First of all, the documentary is great. Finally, The Rock got a doc that does his career justice. If anything, it could've been longer but at two hours it's good stuff. 

*Positives*:
Very little focus on Hollywood career. In two hours, perhaps ten minutes at the most is used to talk about his movie career in any sort of depth. This is great because the bulk of the doc focuses on his wrestling career. 10 minutes into it and we're already at his debut in 1996.

Honesty from everyone; Rock and Triple H are fairly open about having personal and professional tension as they both scratched and clawed their way to the top. But it was nice to hear Rock say that even though they both had big egos, once they got inside the ring they checked them at the door and trusted each other. Classy stuff.

They didn't shy away from talking about the fans booing The Rock in 2002 because he kept leaving to make movies. WWE and John Cena should watch this and see how well it can work if you embrace the negativity and use it as a vehicle for change. PLUS, we get some off-air footage after Summerslam 2002 of Rocky trying to talk and being booed and then saying singalong with The Rock is over, effectively ushering in his heel turn.

The talking heads - WWE didn't go crazy with too many people talking but the people they did choose are effective. We got interesting new stuff from Vince, Foley, Austin, Pat Patterson, ex-wife Dani, his mother, Cena, Punk, Jericho,Jim Ross, Warren Sapp. Good idea to have the folks who were closest to him during his WWE stint. Especially the ones who were with him every day during the peak of the Attitude Era.

Rock's reasons for staying away for 7 years - if you can't listen to what he says and realise that it makes absolute sense then I think you're a fool. Rock reached a point where he was doing more and more films, so he decided that if he was going to make it then he wanted to do it on his own through hard work. It may have ended up being 7 years, but at least we didn't get Rocky popping up every 6 months promoting a movie. He got himself to a level of movie stardom where he was secure so then he could come back without HAVING to promote a film. Makes sense to me.

*Negatives:*
I know Cena was talking in kayfabe, but the end where he's talking about Rock being great but having a bad message just annoyed me a little.  I know they used this DVD to further hype their match, but I didn't need any in-character bullshit here.

Not long enough!

So yeah, the documentary was brilliant. I could sit and watch it again no problem.

Match listing is pretty great too; obviously you can't please everyone but when his last DVD set came out I was gutted that they hadn't included the ladder match with Triple H from 1998 or the triple threat cage match from Breakdown 1998. Well, they're both here and it really adds to the package. 
The match vs Austin at Backlash is great too, and much better than their Wrestlemania 15 encounter. The I Quit match with Mankind is also a relevant addition as they talk about it a fair bit in the doc.

Disc Two has some gems too; I'm glad they put on the Rock Concert II because I find that one funnier than the first. That shit with Gillberg kills me every time, especially Jerry Lawler bursting out into laughter when he comes out. The 2002 matches against Flair and Lesnar are great because you can see some of the fan backlash that was prominent at the time.
No Way Out vs Hogan in 2003 I could've done without, but the epic People's Elbow is always funny to see. Rock was gold during the match. Then of course it's all capped off with the stuff from last year which includes his return (still get goosebumps watching it), his challenge to Cena, his birthday, and his return match at Survivor Series. Throw in his promo from after the show and we have a great set of stuff!

Highly recommended.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redeadening said:


> KingCal Opinions on Ron Simmons becoming world champ?


Really good match, and Simmons was over as fuck. Probably wasn't deserving in terms of wrestling ability, especially given the other talent at the time, but again, he was over as fuck and seen as a "legit" champion given his football career and the fact he just looked like a tough bastard.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Hmmmm.... I was mostly referring to his background. Is it me or did his winn kinda come of nowhere?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

His win DID come out of nowhere if I remember correctly, with Sting supposed to have been in the match but Jake took him out (been reading Foley's first book and he spoke a little about it), and a tournament or something was held that same night to decide the #1 contender, and Simmons won and then beat Vader.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Do you think his race has anything to do with him winning?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

In a way, yes. Watts was always looking for the next big "black" star to make money with.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Where I bought Rock's latest set, got Mania as a bonus DVD. I remember watching the Snooki match, but not the Trips-Taker bit. Debating if I should (re?)watch it before the HIAC.


----------



## tducey (Apr 12, 2011)

I finished watching The Best Of Wrestlemania DVD the other day. Was really surprised that on the DVD version they didn't include one of The Undertaker's matches from his amazing winning streak included. I mean they included Vince vs. Shane from WM 17.


----------



## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

KingCal said:


> His win DID come out of nowhere if I remember correctly, with Sting supposed to have been in the match but Jake took him out (been reading Foley's first book and he spoke a little about it), and a tournament or something was held that same night to decide the #1 contender, and Simmons won and then beat Vader.


They held a lottery with 12 guy's name in a bag and drew one out at random.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Legend said:


> They held a lottery with 12 guy's name in a bag and drew one out at random.


Damn, not even a match? LOL. Though Rikishi did earn a title match that exact way in 2000 .


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

tducey said:


> I finished watching The Best Of Wrestlemania DVD the other day. Was really surprised that on the DVD version they didn't include one of The Undertaker's matches from his amazing winning streak included. I mean they included Vince vs. Shane from WM 17.


They're holding back for the inevitable Undertaker 20-0 streak dvd...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They already did a 15-0 DVD. Except it was one disc. And I don't think any of the matches were in full aside from a couple of his early ones (which were short as fuck lol). Doubt they'd release a 20-0 Streak DVD since I don't see them doing another highlight DVD, and having all the matches in full would surely be like a 5 disc set or something and they rarely even release 4 disc sets. Though I do believe Undertaker is deserving of 5 discs, it should be a documentary DVD with 4 discs of matches not exclusive to WM bouts.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

KingCal said:


> They already did a 15-0 DVD. Except it was one disc. And I don't think any of the matches were in full aside from a couple of his early ones (which were short as fuck lol). Doubt they'd release a 20-0 Streak DVD since I don't see them doing another highlight DVD, and having all the matches in full would surely be like a 5 disc set or something and they rarely even release 4 disc sets. Though I do believe Undertaker is deserving of 5 discs, it should be a documentary DVD with 4 discs of matches not exclusive to WM bouts.


The Tombstone: History of the Undertaker DVD was 3 discs and had 21 matches on it, so surely a 3 disc blu-ray would be able to fit 20 matches and a little bit of padding (build-ups to certain important matches etc.)?

However, I do agree with you about the Undertaker being deserving of the "multi-disc documentary and selection of matches" treatment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The length of the matches just in the last few years alone makes me think that a 3 disc set wouldn't be enough. But only way to know for sure would be to add up the match times, but fuck that . Maybe if they cut the entrances and video packages and match celebrations they could get everything on a 3 disc set.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm for certain that when Taker is done, he'll get the 4-disc treatment ala Stone Cold Steve Austin. The question I have for you Cal, is how would you fill a 4-disc Taker set ?


Shoot.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Still waiting for the overdue Million Dollar Man DVD the man is a hall of famer!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You know, I really don't know . I'm not a fan at all of match repeats, BUT how can WWE NOT include matches like HIAC with HBK and Mankind, as well as a handful of other big matches from him. And personally I wouldn't want any WM matches, because, I own every WM on DVD lol, but then the same can be said for any PPV match for some people if they own all the PPV's. So a bunch of TV matches never before released would be awesome, but not gonna happen. So a realistic DVD is impossible for me to really have a crack at. And a non realistic DVD... well what would be the point in that? 

Also, I'm incredibly lazy. Otherwise I probably would have listed a bunch of matches :lmao.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> how would you fill a 4-disc Taker set ?
> 
> 
> Shoot.



Two hour doc + deleted scenes and segments from his career. 

As for matches:

Undertaker vs.

Bret Hart MSG92
Owen Hart Raw96
Goldust IYH or MG96
Mankind SSeries96
Vader Canadian Stampede 97
w/Austin vs. Kane/Mankind Fully Loaded 98
Austin Raw 99
Austin Judgment Day 01
RVD Vengeance 01
Rock NWO 02
Flair WM18
Cena SD04
Orton WM21
JBL SD05
Angle SD06
Kennedy NM06
w/Kane vs. Kennedy/Booker T SD06
Royal Rumble 07
w/Batista vs. Cena/HBK NWO 07
Batista SD07
Edge Backlash 08
Big Show Cyber Sunday 08
HBK WM25 & 26
CM Punk HIAC 09
HHH WM27 & WM28


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Did anyone else enjoy the Taker/Khali Last Man Standing match that got took off SummerSlam and bumped to Smackdown? I thought it was pretty sweet and would have loved it to have stayed on Summerslam.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Clique said:


> Two hour doc + deleted scenes and segments from his career.
> 
> As for matches:
> 
> ...


Nice list..but i would replace Taker's match against Rock at NWO with this match


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I enjoyed that match as well. Can't say that too often talking about a Khali singles match.

EDIT - that's a good choice for Taker/Rock match too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I just re-watched Cena vs JBL JD 2005 for the first time in a while (great match btw, great story telling) and I have to ask. Has there been a more bloodier match in the WWE?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd definitely have to include some "pre-Undertaker" matches on a 'Taker set . His first ever match with Brody, something from Memphis with maybe Lawler if possible, tag match with Spivey in WCW (probs against Road Warriors since it was high profile) and then the US Title match against Luger (a really good match imo, around ***1/2). Could go on the first disc along with the documentary.



sharkboy22 said:


> So I just re-watched Cena vs JBL JD 2005 for the first time in a while (great match btw, great story telling) and I have to ask. Has there been a more bloodier match in the WWE?


Eddie/JBL a year earlier was waaaayy bloodier, and that was just from Eddie! 

Also it was a better match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> Eddie/JBL a year earlier was waaaayy bloodier, and that was just from Eddie!
> 
> Also it was a better match.


Holy shit, forgot bout that one. Actually, when i think bout it both matches are similar in that JBL fucked both men up with a steel chair lol. I really can't remember JBL/Eddie too well but I do remember Guerreo lying in a pool of blood. Can't recall if JBL was bleeding but with Cena/JBL both men were gushing.

While i do agree that JBL/Eddie was a better match, not by much in terms of star ratings IMO. I rank Cena/JBL at ****1/4 while JBL/Eddie is about ****1/2.

This is why I'm not too found of star ratings. It may seem like only 1/4 of a star but JBL/Eddie meant so much more when you take it into context. Star ratings really don't do a match justice.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

If WWE did release a new 4-disc set of UT, I would 1) yes, not include any WM matches, because if you're buying a set of the UT, there's a good possibility to already own a WM 2) Not do any repeats. Here's what I would want to see:

vs. Yokozuna
Survivor Series 1994

vs. Mankind
Survivor Series 1996

vs. Triple H
RAW, August 26th, 2002

vs. Brock Lesnar
Unforgiven 2002

vs. Kurt Angle
SmackDown, March 3rd, 2006

vs. Batista
SmackDown, May 11, 2007

vs. Batista
SmackDown, April 18, 2008

vs. Batista
SmackDown, April 25, 2008

vs. Triple H
SmackDown, October 24 2008


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I really think Taker is going to get the Hogan/Austin treatment. There is just too much interest for a TakerMania DVD. Sure half the matches are not very good but too many people give a shit about the streak. 

I hope he also gets a "rare" or an unreleased set. He is just too popular not to get a bunch more sets. 

Before WWE does anything else though I want my damn Best of In Your House DVD set!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I just want some Undertaker pre WWF footage to be released, dammit!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's not terribly hard to find, really. Or terribly good, either.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bought a few used DVD sets on amazon this week. All have arrived except the Eddie ones and those will be here tomorrow. My collection is getting decent. 

The Triumph and Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling (wish this was a 3 disc set with more matches)

The Best of SmackDown - 10th Anniversary, 1999-2009 

Viva La Raza - The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero 

Cheating Death, Stealing Life: The Eddie Guerrero Story 

Hell in a Cell 

Born to Controversy - The Roddy Piper Story 

The Shawn Michaels Story - Heartbreak & Triumph


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Just saw again King of the Ring 2000, a great PPV and I forgot how good the Rikishi/Angle thing was. Man that guy was pushed to the moon in 2000, WWF title, KOTR, European, IC and I think Tag Team as well.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Curious of everyone's opinion on something. Give me your favorite and best PPV every year since 1995.........


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

97: Canadian Stampede
2000: Backlash
2001: Wrestlemania
2002: Survivor Series
2003: Wrestlemania
2004: Wrestlemania
2005: Vengeance
2006: Wrestlemania
2007: Backlash
2008: Wrestlemania
2009: Backlash/ No Way Out
2010: Wrestlemania
2011: Money in the Bank

Can't remember to much about 98 and 99


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks for making the list. Trying to build my PPV collection. CS in 1997 was close to a flawless PPV. One of the loudest crowds I have ever heard in the main event.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Shawn Michaels vs Diesel In Your House 7*
Saw this match for the first time today and what a great match this is. This is how you do a No Holds Barred match in a PG environment. As much as I love to see blood, barbwire, thumbtacks and all that goodness, the thing about these kind of No-Dq matches is that they often rely heavily on it to sell the match. In a PG environment these kind of matches forces wrestles to be more creative and focus more on telling a story, rather than holy shit moments. This is exactly what this match did. It told a great story and did it through creative and limited use of weapons.

There's this one spot that legit scared the hell out of me. Diesel ties a belt around Micahels' neck, throws him over the top rope and I don't know if Shawn's just an amazing seller or if it was what it was, but Shawn looked like he was legit gonna pass out. It was scary man. I have to point out the amazing babyface comebacks done by Shawn Michaels. Just badass. It actually felt as if Shawn was giving it his all to win this match. One of the best and well time babyface comebacks I've ever seen, not to mention well timed moments where Kevin Nash would simply derail HBK's comeback.

The ONLY problem I had with this match is that just once again WWE has to do add some booking "WTF" decision in the match. They just have to have their input in the match. The whole thing where Diesel takes off Mad Dog Vachon prosthetic leg is just one of those moments that will leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Still this match is a classic and is one of those matches that I would show someone who doesn't watch pro wrestling to try to get them in it.
*
****1/2*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nash using the fake leg of Mad Dog is one of my fav parts of that match . Not as high on it these days though. Didn't like how Shawn did his superman style comeback right after being powerbombed through a table, which for *WWF* in early 1996 was one of the biggest most brutal things someone could do.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> Nash using the fake leg of Mad Dog is one of my fav parts of that match . Not as high on it these days though. Didn't like how Shawn did his superman style comeback right after being powerbombed through a table, which for *WWF* in early 1996 was one of the biggest most brutal things someone could do.


HBK spent like 2 minutes on the floor in pain though. Then he sold it even more trying to crawl back in the ring. He picked up the fire extingusiher and sprayed it in Nash's eyes, before crawling back into the ring and mounting his comeback. I, personally, had no problem with it since HBK sold the entire thing throughout. It wasn't your typical superman comeback IMO. It was just a badass comeback, giving it all you have, depleting all your energy to keep your opponent down.

It's not like he got up 10 seconds after being thrown through the table, made a mircaculous comeback and hit SCM and got the win. There were points later in the match wehre Nash had him down for a while but the fighting spirit in HBK never gave up.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Shawn Michaels vs Diesel In Your House 7*
> Saw this match for the first time today and what a great match this is. This is how you do a No Holds Barred match in a PG environment. As much as I love to see blood, barbwire, thumbtacks and all that goodness, the thing about these kind of No-Dq matches is that they often rely heavily on it to sell the match. In a PG environment these kind of matches forces wrestles to be more creative and focus more on telling a story, rather than holy shit moments. This is exactly what this match did. It told a great story and did it through creative and limited use of weapons.
> 
> There's this one spot that legit scared the hell out of me. Diesel ties a belt around Micahels' neck, throws him over the top rope and I don't know if Shawn's just an amazing seller or if it was what it was, but Shawn looked like he was legit gonna pass out. It was scary man. I have to point out the amazing babyface comebacks done by Shawn Michaels. Just badass. It actually felt as if Shawn was giving it his all to win this match. One of the best and well time babyface comebacks I've ever seen, not to mention well timed moments where Kevin Nash would simply derail HBK's comeback.
> ...


I was at this PPV live! The one and only PPV I have ever been to. I'm a huge In Your House fan so of course I love the match even though I'm not crazy about HBK and can't stand Nash. Something I hate about this match is the camera work. If you rewatch the end of the match the camera actually misses HBK hitting SCM on Nash. 

Some great matches that night. Vader won a great match with Razor and the dark matches were good....Taker V Foley, HHH V Marc Mero and Austin V Savio Vega

I wish this PPV was not so hard to find and I refuse to pay $75-100 for it on ebay which I see now and again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looked up some of my thoughts from Diesel/HBK and after some discussion with other peoples I came to the conclusion that I didn't like Shawn essentially using the powerbomb through the table as a transition into his comeback. A little better than just saying he went through the table then powered back into the match . Been a while since I watched it lol.

<3 Tagged Classics. Thought most of the IYH shows are garbage outside of one match . The 13 & 16 collection is the only one really worth owning lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched HBK/Nash recently and had this little bit to say about it



> Michaels v Diesel from IYH holds up superbly. I can see why a guy would look at Michaels being uppity a couple of minutes after a table bump (esp. during this era and company) and be bothered, but there's not a more selling-arse-off sight than Shawn shaking and quivering like a frail old man trying to crawl to the ring. I don't see a good complaint for the rest of the match unless someone has a problem with Mad Dog's prosthetic leg being used. Diesel was a perfect dick. He was the monster, and he used all the unnecessary weapons to try to keep Michaels down. Using he referee's belt to hang him was pretty insane, and Michaels looked actually deprived of air. This is still a great match.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Never saw that match, should check it out


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nash's best match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I'm sitting around waiting for Wrestlemania XXVIII to start so I decided I'd kill some time by watch a past Wrestlemania and since I've never seen Wrestlemania 24 I decided to give it a watch. 

Finlay vs JBL ***3/4
Money In The Bank Ladder Match ****
Batista vs Umaga ***
Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair ***1/2
Beth Phoenix/Melina vs Maria/Ashley **
Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena ***3/4
Flyod Mayweather vs The Big Show **1/2
The Undertaker vs Edge ****1/4

Overall, this was a great Wrestlemania. The first half was really good, very entertaining. I think this MITB is my favourite of them all. Lots of great spots. Batista vs Umaga is actually pretty watchable and Finlay/JBL was beast. The placement of HBK vs Flair on the card kind of bugged me because it was such an emotional moment that by the time we got to the Divas match it felt as if all the energy was drained out of the arena. Then again, by putting it on earlier it meant that it wasn't going to take away much from the world title matches so yeah, it wasn't a bad decision after all. The second half kind of faltered with the Divas match (which felt a bit sloppy at times) and Mayweather vs Big Show but the triple threat was fun and the main event was well paced and full of excitement. There's this one moment, had you forgotten it was an Undertaker Wrestlemania match you thought for sure Edge was gonna win. 

I've seen every Mania from 14-27 and this is no doubt one of my favourites.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love WM 24, in my top 3 WM shows of all time along with 19 and 26. Show/Mayweather is fucking awesome, best celebrity match of all time. So much fun.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WM 24:

Finlay/JBL - ***1/2
MITB - ****1/4
Batista/Umaga - **3/4
Flair/HBK - ****3/4 (Still holds up for me)
Cena/Orton/HHH - ***3/4
Show/Money - ***1/2
Taker/Edge - ****1/4

Favorite WM of all time. I have it just above 22.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

To think I could've been entering this thread and giving Bryan/Sheamus close to ****. Speechless :no:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*The Undertaker vs Triple H Hell In A Cell Wrestlemania XXVIII*
This match was without a doubt MOTN for the PPV. Pure, raw emotion. But this match had no damn reason to be HIAC. The cell served no damn purpose and this could have been a regular NO-DQ match and you wouldn't have tell the difference. Don't get me wrong, it's a great match. It was very emotional, told a great story but it's the cell served no purpose. To me, it's like Flair vs HBK and I'll give it the same rating.

****1/2*


----------



## taylormade (Feb 29, 2012)

Randy Orton vs. Kane - ***
Undertaker vs. Triple H - ***** (simply amazing from start to finish)
Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy - **3/4
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ***
The Rock vs. John Cena - **3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus vs. Bryan- N/A
Randy Orton vs. Kane - ***1/4
Show vs. Rhodes- **
Undertaker vs. Triple H - ***3/4
Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy - **1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****1/4
The Rock vs. John Cena - ***1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton/Kane - ***1/4
Rhodes/Show - **
HIAC - ****1/2
6vs6 - **3/4
Punk/Jericho - ****1/4
Cena/Rock - ***


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah, I know that this will probably be unpopular, but I'd give the full five to Taker/HHH.

HBK was amazing. Even as a fucking special guest ref, he steals the show. :lol

The PPV overall was kind of disappointing, but still not bad.

Rocky winning makes fuck all sense.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*WrestleMania 28:*
Sheamus vs Bryan - WHAT THE FUCK?! *DUD*
Orton vs Kane - Much better than expected and it was kept decently short too. ***3/4*
Show vs Rhodes - Wasn't paying full attention to this. ***
Undertaker vs Triple H - Not a fan of this match. Way too much confusing overbooking with 'drama-building' moments. *****
Team Teddy vs Team Johnny - Boring at first but really got going in the last few minutes. *****
Jericho vs Punk - Quite sloppy but still a potential MOTY. The submission counters are the end were ingenious. *****1/4*
Rock vs Cena - Good in some moments, meh in others. Crowd was always great. ****1/4*

*A tad underwhelming after being predicted the greatest PPV since WrestleMania X-Seven, but I can't say I didn't enjoy this. Hell, it can be as bad as last year's craptacular event.*


----------



## mrchrisieclass (Sep 22, 2005)

The fact that Bryan/Fella shocked everyone and NOBODY called that means it deserves more than a dud


----------



## TheMan4eva (Aug 1, 2011)

Ok as a paying member I think I have the right to complain about the PPV a little.

-Hell in a Cell.................so why did they need the cell? When I saw the ref run down to the ring I thought there might be a chance that they'd go outside but it was not to be.

-I felt like watching a drama when I was watching HHH/Undertaker. Shawn's fake emotions seemed really forced and him acting concerned looked really gay. The build went one way and the match went the other in terms of emotion. Shawn's not really good at acting. The Psychology of the match was really good tho. With HHH telling Shawn to end it, Shawn hesitating to end it and Undertaker finally locking him in a Hells Gate to stop him. The ending was a great moment with the three walking off and when HHH went for the sledgehammer and Taker just looked down on him that was great too. 

-Punk and Jericho lacked intensity. I wanted a bit more brawling but they just wrestled for most of the time. Punk didn't take out his anger enough on Jericho. Punk didn't seem ruthless enough and you could hear them discussing spots and shit. I wanted Punk to be more aggressive and more methodical like he just wants to HURT Jericho. If someone says shit about your family you're gonna want to hurt them, Punk just was really intense at the start and Jericho was hilarious with his taunting but then it just turned into a regular wrestling match. The crowd fucking sucked for this match too. If anything this WM proved Punk isn't as big as the IWC makes him out to be. 

-Cena and Rock. These two are NOT technical wrestlers. They had WAYYYY too many wrestling holds in the match and it went for 25+ minutes. I wanted some fast pace action but they had too many wrestling holds in this match which kinda killed the heat of the crowd for a bit. Got too many minutes as well. This should have been a brawl, spots to get the crowd going, finishing sequences and then just mayhem till someone gets the upper hand and pins the other person. This match didn't need to be a wrestling masterpiece it could have been one of the greatest by the crowd reaction alone if they just played the crowd but TOO MANY FUCKING WRASSLIN HOLDS BROTHER!!!!!!!


Anyways thats my complaints. I paid my fucking money for this. I have the right to complain. 


The crowd looked great. Bryan got screwed, AJ looks like the perfect girl anyone can have. Dumb ......s like Flo Rida and MGK got time which could have been given to the Sheamus/Bryan match. Randy and Kane was surprisingly good. The Tag match was fun. Divas match was my break. Cody and Show wasn't that great.


----------



## Rockstar (Jul 5, 2007)

Sheamus/Bryan DUD
Orton/Kane ***
Rhodes/Show **
Taker/HHH **** 1/2
Johnny/Long ***
Punk/Jericho **** 1/4
Rock/Cena *** 3/4

All in all, I thought it was a very good Wrestlemania and I enjoyed it a lot. My only changes would have been to get rid of the concerts and the Divas match and give that time to Sheamus/Bryan. HIAC stole the show, awesome match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Only watched one match, I'll watch the rest of the show tomorrow. THE GAME. THE UNDERTAKER. Awesome. I think I prefer their match at last year's event slightly but that could change on a re-watch. Damn. The storytelling, the drama, the call backs. Loved it.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

mrchrisieclass said:


> The fact that Bryan/Fella shocked everyone and NOBODY called that means it deserves more than a dud


It's one of the worst Mania match ever, its a DUD.


----------



## lukex3 (Apr 1, 2012)

Word said:


> It's one of the worst Mania match ever, its a DUD.


I still can't believe it even happened. It was dreadful


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

HHH/Taker - ****1/2
Punk Jericho - ****
Rock/Cena - ***3/4


Rock winning was eh, but it's got me more interested about Raw tonight than if Cena had won, which is what I assume they were aiming for.


----------



## VerticalSlash (Apr 2, 2012)

Ok as a paying member I think I have the right to complain about the PPV a little.

-Hell in a Cell.................so why did they need the cell? When I saw the ref run down to the ring I thought there might be a chance that they'd go outside but it was not to be.

-I felt like watching a drama when I was watching HHH/Undertaker. Shawn's fake emotions seemed really forced and him acting concerned looked really gay. The build went one way and the match went the other in terms of emotion. Shawn's not really good at acting. The Psychology of the match was really good tho. With HHH telling Shawn to end it, Shawn hesitating to end it and Undertaker finally locking him in a Hells Gate to stop him. The ending was a great moment with the three walking off and when HHH went for the sledgehammer and Taker just looked down on him that was great too.

-Punk and Jericho lacked intensity. I wanted a bit more brawling but they just wrestled for most of the time. Punk didn't take out his anger enough on Jericho. Punk didn't seem ruthless enough and you could hear them discussing spots and shit. I wanted Punk to be more aggressive and more methodical like he just wants to HURT Jericho. If someone says shit about your family you're gonna want to hurt them, Punk just was really intense at the start and Jericho was hilarious with his taunting but then it just turned into a regular wrestling match. The crowd fucking sucked for this match too. If anything this WM proved Punk isn't as big as the IWC makes him out to be.

-Cena and Rock. These two are NOT technical wrestlers. They had WAYYYY too many wrestling holds in the match and it went for 25+ minutes. I wanted some fast pace action but they had too many wrestling holds in this match which kinda killed the heat of the crowd for a bit. Got too many minutes as well. This should have been a brawl, spots to get the crowd going, finishing sequences and then just mayhem till someone gets the upper hand and pins the other person. This match didn't need to be a wrestling masterpiece it could have been one of the greatest by the crowd reaction alone if they just played the crowd but TOO MANY FUCKING WRASSLIN HOLDS BROTHER!!!!!!!


Anyways thats my complaints. I paid my fucking money for this. I have the right to complain.


The crowd looked great. Bryan got screwed, AJ looks like the perfect girl anyone can have. Dumb ......s like Flo Rida and MGK got time which could have been given to the Sheamus/Bryan match. Randy and Kane was surprisingly good. The Tag match was fun. Divas match was my break. Cody and Show wasn't that great.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I don't really post on here anymore but I'm seeing a trend of people reluctant to give high ratings in matches anymore. It used to be the other way round a couple of years back when this thread was booming. It doesn't really bother me just interesting to see.

Ive also seen major negativity towards the WWE. I mean Rocky wins and people aren't happy buy if Cena wins they would probably riot. WWE is an always a lose lose situation and always ever will be.

Anyway I haven't seen the top 3 mania matches yet, but I intend too. I expect the match ratings to be higher than many. I'd like to see old veterans of this thread to give their star ratings for Mania too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll throw out some STARS~! for the hell of it:

Danielson/Sheamus - GO FUCK YOURSELF WWE. I PAID TWICE TO SEE THIS MATCH AT WM AND YOU FUCKED ME OVER TWICE. WHERE'S MY REFUND?
Orton/Kane - **3/4
Rhodes/Show - **
Divas – no
Taker/HHH - ****1/2
Johnny/Teddy - **1/2
Jericho/Punk - ****1/4
Rock/Cena - ***


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

They should have brought back MITB for this Mania, theres too much talent being wasted in the GM vs GM.

Bryan/Sheamus & Punk/Y2J will run on for a few more months, likely to be gimmicked so people will get to see them again.


----------



## VerticalSlash (Apr 2, 2012)

I rewatched the Punk and Jericho match and at one point I heard a small 'boring' chant LOL.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'll post my star ratings here.

World Heavyweight Championship: Sheamus def. Daniel Bryan (c) - DUD
Kane def. Randy Orton - **3/4
Intercontinental Championship: Big Show def. Cody Rhodes (c) - **
Tag Team: Maria Menounos & Kelly Kelly def. Beth Phoenix & Eve - *3/4
Hell in a Cell w/HBK as Special Referee: The Undertaker def. Triple H - *****
12 Man Tag Team: Team Johnny def. Team Teddy - **3/4
WWE Championship: CM Punk (c) def. Chris Jericho - ****
Once in a Lifetime: The Rock def. John Cena - ****

I'm in the minority but I'm giving The Undertaker and Triple H a full five stars here. All the factors just put it over the top, HBK's emotion, The Undertaker and Triple H's psychology and drama, JR's commentary, the story telling, it was all there and it was all unreal. I was spent after the match. It was truly an amazing match and one of my favorite's in a long while. 

CM Punk and Chris Jericho started slow, but they picked it up. Once they got passed the storyline driven part of the match early on and went straight for a pure wrestling match, I thought it was a great match and the ending was just great. The finishing sequence was great and they won the crowd back. Great match.

The wrestling part of The Rock and John Cena is probably a ***, ***1/4 tops, but I give it a **** due to the crowd and the atmosphere. The middle part of the match was dull though and moved pretty slow. I think the match would've been better if they were given 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes so they wouldn't have that slow middle part of the match. Gee, I wonder where those 10 minutes could've gone? I was shocked that The Rock went over because I thought it'd be a passing of the torch moment, but nope, Rock went over and sent the fans home happy. I marked, the fans erupted, it was a great ending to a damn good WrestleMania.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Wrestlemania 28 STRZ RTINGZ!!!

Daniel Bryan Vs Sheamus

Randy Orton vs Kane ***

A good Kane match? this really is Wrestlemania. Simple yet solid back and forth match, the ending spot was cool yet very surprising with Kane going over Orton clean at WM.

Big Show V Rhodes **

Rhodes bumping his ass off deserves to be recognized, as well with him getting speared in the balls by Big Show. This was fine with Show getting a deserved smypathy win at WM.

Divas match, lol.

Undertaker V HHH ****3/4

As close to perfection in terms of storytelling as you can get. Taker looked great, Triple H looked like a fucking murderer in this match, and Shawn derserves a Oscar for his performence acting wise. Everything from the entrances, the crowd, the Hell In A Cell being lowered to "The Memory Remains", the Sweet Chin Music Pedigree combination false finish, Triple H mouthing fuck you while doing the DX chop, to the beautifull moment of three legends walking out together accompnied with JR's line "that.... is respect". This is why I am a wrestling fan.

Team Teddy V Team Johnny **3/4

Fun match, ending sequence with the finisher/spot fest was exciting, and Miz getting the win was the best decision.

Punk V Jericho ****

Jericho's heel performence, my god, GREATNESS!. They both balanced nicely the personal animosity of the feud as well as the simplistic "Who is The Best In The World?" motif. Some fantastic spots in this and the last five minuits were hella exciting. Crowd could of made it better but hey, what you gonna do? they did pop for the big spots (Hurricana countered into the Walls sticks out) and were really into it near the end.

Rock V Cena ****

For Rock to not have wreslted a proper match in 8 years and to go out there and work a thity minuite match busting out crossbodys adds to he amount of respect I have for him. Both guys busted their ass's and were clearly drained near the end, the false finish with the AA near the end had me thinking "FUCKING SUPER CENA SHIT!!!" and The Rock to kick out was a mark out moment. Rock winning was the way to go other wise cena would have won, been booed by 70'000 people and most people would come away feeling dissapionted so yeah Rock winning was fine.

Overall Great Show, you know a Wrestlemania is half good when only about 40% of the forum is saying its the worst ever, usually its a good 60%.


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

Dissapointing show, the highlight was Triple H/Undertaker, , for me personally it took a while for me to really get invested, and I dont think they needed the Cell stipulation because they barely used the cell, however there are some tremendous moments, I loved when Triple H tries to swing the hammer at Taker and Taker stops him and says nods his head as if to say "just give it up". Not a 5 star match, but a great one and easily the best of the card


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Man, the latest Rock Bluray Documentary is amazing.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Bryan/Sheamus - DUD
Orton/Kane - **1/4
Rhodes/Show - *3/4
Divas – 1/2*
Taker/HHH - ****1/4
Johnny/Teddy - **1/2
Jericho/Punk - ***3/4
Rock/Cena - ***1/2


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Bryan/Sheamus - 1/4*
Orton/Kane - **1/2
Rhodes/Show - **1/2
Divas - *
Taker/Trips - ****
Playa/Vice President - ***
Jericho/Punk - ****
Rocky/Cena - ***1/2

Not a bad show, was entertaining for the most part, I just wish their was a roof or something to make the crowd seem louder because during Rock/Cena, they were loud but with a roof to contain the noise, I bet it would have been loud as fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, the bad thing about open air stadiums is how much crowd noise is lost. But at the same time it makes it that much more impressive when during Undertaker/HHH and Cena/Rock you could still hear the crowd go absolutely fucking INSANE. Now just imagine if they took place inside a normal arena. Damn.

My internet is utter shit atm, but once it gets back to normal and I can download WM onto my PC, I plan on watching it again and doing a review, since I do it every year . Would just watch a replay on TV but that's downstairs, and my PC is upstairs, and I like to type as I watch otherwise I forget things lol.


----------



## mrchrisieclass (Sep 22, 2005)

Word said:


> I don't really post on here anymore but I'm seeing a trend of people reluctant to give high ratings in matches anymore. It used to be the other way round a couple of years back when this thread was booming. It doesn't really bother me just interesting to see.
> 
> Ive also seen major negativity towards the WWE. I mean Rocky wins and people aren't happy buy if Cena wins they would probably riot. WWE is an always a lose lose situation and always ever will be.
> 
> Anyway I haven't seen the top 3 mania matches yet, but I intend too. I expect the match ratings to be higher than many. I'd like to see old veterans of this thread to give their star ratings for Mania too.


I agree with alot of this, this thread is for the purists and not alot else. The Bryan/Sheamus match was great booking but everyone gives it a dud cuz it featured 1 move, nobody takes into account how clever the whole thing was but then they praise how clever the Taker/HHH match was


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

mrchrisieclass said:


> I agree with alot of this, this thread is for the purists and not alot else. The Bryan/Sheamus match was great booking but everyone gives it a dud cuz it featured 1 move, nobody takes into account how clever the whole thing was but then they praise how clever the Taker/HHH match was


OK I've got to hear this. Pleeeease explain to me how the WORLD CHAMPION losing in one move is great booking.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

A-DoubleBaby! said:


> OK I've got to hear this. Pleeeease explain to me how the WORLD CHAMPION losing in one move is great booking.


This I would love to know too. Let's hear how clever it was to squash the most over guy in the match.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

BOOM

Danielson/Sheamus - *****. Excellent match, workrate, storytelling, psychology galore. Sheamus' beautiful underdog victory brought tears to my eyes. What a Wrestlemania moment. We, the fans, were so fortunate to be able to witness such a bout. *wipes tear from eye* 

Orton/Kane - *1/2 Could not get into this match. Watched it live, couldn't engage with it. Watched the replay, _still_ couldn't engage with it. The "story" leading in was weak, and just a way of throwing both of them onto the card. Not a bad match, just dull and uninspired.

Rhodes/Show - *1/2 I had somewhat high hopes for this one, as I love Cody and I think the build-up to this match was great. The actual match failed to interest me. It's the Big Show curse. Again, wasn't bad, just never really picked up. There were a few nice Cody-gets-thrown-around spots though. Cody losing was quite disappointing. A Big Show title reign sounds unbearable and Rhodes was definitely beginning to pick up steam as a champion. I was really hoping he would hold it for longer and do more with it.

Divas – 1/2* Pointless match, unforgettable, a waste of a spot and a total waste of a champion. Kudos to Maria for wrestling hurt, but I just did not enjoy watching Beth and Eve try to guide her through the match. I don't think anyone involved performed well, which is a shame because I like Eve and usually expect more from Beth. The Kelly Go Round was nice though. Really the only positive thing I can say. 

Taker/HHH - **** I was so surprised by how much I enjoyed this match. I wasn't expecting much from it, but the way it built up and concluded was fantastic. All three of them sold the story perfectly, and from the middle onwards, I just loved it. 

Johnny/Teddy - **1/2 I enjoyed this one, weirdly enough. I was looking forward to it to begin with, and it pretty much met my expectations. I wish it was an elimination match and less clusterfucky, but there were some great performances from most of those guys. I wasn't expecting a clinic, just a fun, gimmicky match in contrast to the srs business of the other matches. 

Jericho/Punk - **** My favourite of the night. These two worked unbelievably well together, which should come as a surprise to no one. The tension in the beginning was fantastic and the way it built up throughout was even better. I wish we got more of this, like, the up-and-coming young guys being given the opportunity to show that they can hang with the big guns. Great stuff.

Rock/Cena - ***1/2 I... just didn't enjoy this match. It just never really clicked for me. There were a few "THIS IS AWESOME~!" moments, but overall, I just struggled to get truly invested in it. Really good match nonetheless, just not my cup of tea.

'Mania was... interesting. Robbed of a world title match, let down by _okay_ to mediocre undercard matches, but the main events were great. Mania will always be Mania, and I guess it's too much to ask for a great card from top to bottom. At least it's all over now. I'm looking forward to what comes next. I think that's mostly my favourite aspect of Wrestlemania.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> <3 Tagged Classics. Thought most of the IYH shows are garbage outside of one match . The 13 & 16 collection is the only one really worth owning lol.


All the more reason there needs to be a best of in your house set. Im going to try and collect them all and just make my damn own.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Storytelling in Punk/Jericho was amazing. Loved the beginning with Punk snapping and Jericho trying to get the DQ win. Then it just went into an epic match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*John Cena vs The Rock*
Had that match been done on any other night given a build of let's say 3 weeks to 2 months, then that match could have easily been ***3/4, heck why the hell not ****. But this was a year's build. This was Wrestlemania. This is Once In A Lifetime.

First off, let me say where this match went wrong from the beginning. There was no staredown. I could be wrong (I had a very shitty stream) but I don't recall one. How do you do a match such as this one with no staredown? You just don't. There was supposed to be a staredown. Cena was supposed to taunt You Can't See Me and Rock was just supposed to reply with the Just Bring It. 

Nonetheless,I liked the opening. The exchange of holds was good. It was a test of strength to see who the better man was. But somehow the match just turned into nothing but rest holds and never really kicked into second gear. They were just going through the motions. What Cena vs Rock was lacking was INTENSITY. After the exchange of holds when both men realized they could have gotten the better of each, it was supposed to be an intesne staredown and both men were just supposed to start trading blows. 

The match was supposed to spill to the outside with an intense brawl. We're talking slamming into steel steps, Rock bottom through the table and there wasn't a damn the ref could have done about it because this was Rock vs Cena bitch. This was Once In A Lifetime.

I liked the ending. I liked how Cena got all ocky and it cause him the match but it's obvious that it's setting up for a rematch. I thought this was Once In A Lifetime? The question is, is part II at Summerslam or next year's Mania. I personally believe that Part II (God forbid, Part III) doesn't need to be the main event. It doesn't. Let's be honest here. Part II could easily go on as the third to last match. I think it'll be better if it is. 

But that's neither here nor here. Point is, Cena/Rock was not a bad match. When you strip away the fact it had a year's build, it happened at Mania and well it's Cena/Rock you have a pretty good match. But when you factor all those points, then you have a very, very disappointing match.
*
***1/2*


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> BOOM
> 
> Danielson/Sheamus - *****. Excellent match, workrate, storytelling, psychology galore. Sheamus' beautiful underdog victory brought tears to my eyes. What a Wrestlemania moment. We, the fans, were so fortunate to be able to witness such a bout. *wipes tear from eye*


MOTY obviously, and the other matches rank as follows

2) *Triple H vs Undertaker (w/ Shawn Michaels)*
I can't really put it into words right now, except for this match had "Wrestlemania moments" up to its ears.

3) *Rock vs Cena*
And it's close behind too. I posted more about it in the match thread, but this was one of my favourite finishes of all time.

4) *CM Punk vs Jericho*
It's not fair that Chris Jericho knows how to play his role so well yet still gets cheered more than the babyface champion. This was very enjoyable, especially with their use of submission holds

5) *Kelly Kelly and Maria Menenous vs Beth Phoenix and, uh...*
I don't even care. I marked for Kelly Kelly's top rope thing, and there was a false finish in there that made me jump. And then I realised I just jumped at a diva's match.

6) *Team Teddy vs Team Laurinitus*
I wasn't expecting much because a twelve man tag is bound to be clusterfucked, and they pulled it off pretty well I guess. Santino was good, as was Ziggler, Miz, Ryder. I don't remember much besides the after match nonsense. Hoeski :no:

And there was also Kane vs Orton and Rhodes vs Show. Both were rather underwhelming, but I liked Big Show's reaction to winning the title. I suppose Cody's moving on from that, but the IC title hasn't looked better in a long time IMO.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

After re-watching.

Bryan/Sheamus - What the fuck, WWE?
Orton/Kane - **
Divas - *3/4
Rhodes/Show - **1/4
Triple H/Undertaker - ****1/4
Team Johnny/Team Teddy - ***
Punk/Jericho - ****
Rock/Cena - ***1/2


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

WTF? Punk V jericho was FAR from boring. Maybe it lacked intensity but that is because of Hell in a Cell which was great. That sucked a lot out of the crowd IMHO. Punk V Jericho was as good as I thought it would be. A 4 star at worst and probably a 4.5 star classic. Rock/Cena was way better thn I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be a huge clusterfuck. So happy Rock beat that PG Wahlberg wannabe. I seriously thought there was no way in hell he would put Rock over. 

Overall a pretty good WM. The Bryan/Sheamus match was a huge slap in the face to Bryan.


----------



## PsychoPriest (Jun 28, 2007)

*Wrestlemania 28*
Sheamus/Bryan - DUD
Kane/Orton - **1/2
Show/Rhodes - **
Diva Tag - *
Hell in a Cell - ****1/2
Team Teddy/Team Johnny - ***
WWE Title - ****1/4
Rock/Cena - ****


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Okay, on a re-watch:

Sheamus vs. Bryan- *

I decided to be nice and give this a star, which is great for what it was. At the end of the day it did accomplish two things... 1) It gave Bryan/AJ a bit of heat in their relationship which we could see really start to build up over time and 2) Even though I also dislike this, it's not like Daniel Bryan went from 0 to hero as far as toughness goes when he turned heel like magic. Essentially he's as resilient and as much of a force as he was as a face, maybe even less, but he started using his brain more in matches weasel out of them and keep his World Title. This time however he was caught off guard. Now Bryan in the first place should be a tougher individual all things considered, but it's nice to see they stayed true to what he was from the beginning and didn't all of a sudden magically make him a supervillain because he became champion.

... I hope I explained that as well as I was hoping to.


Randy Orton vs. Kane - ***1/4

Have it at the same rating, and these two did better than I'm sure everyone thought. They had a nice pace, did their move set, had some interesting counters (like Orton flipping out of one of Kane's move) and the ending was a good way to keep Orton looking strong and give Kane a decisive win to keep him looking like force to be reckoned with.

Show vs. Rhodes- *1/2

I'm not happy about Show winning, and the match wasn't very good. I didn't like how basic the ending was and it just felt way too short. Rhodes' reign ending just like that was a let-down, but overall it isn't the worst match I've ever seen... just not good in the slightest.


Undertaker vs. Triple H - ****

I bumped this up to 4 stars. This match was easily better than the WM27 match in my eyes, because it did everything that WM27 did, but better. Better drama, better storytelling, and better action (though the action was still lacking considering it was HIAC at Wrestlemania). I'd actually also put this slightly above their WM17 match, and overall it was a great way for Taker, HHH, or both to go out. I have to admit I also loved Taker absolutely dominating HHH at the end, and it just felt the way it should unlike the WM27 match with HHH dominating Taker. I almost feel the match should've ended with that sledgehammer shot, as if that's HHH's last match, that would've been more appropriate. At the very least though after the sledgehammer shot Taker should've covered, and that would've made a great false finish. But at the end of the day, it all worked out, and the two delivered an excellent match. I don't see it as a classic or even MOTN, but the two went out there and delivered a hell of a match... even if it was slighty disappointing for a Cell match (still the best Cell match easily since Taker/Edge at Summerslam 08). The after-match was great as well, with Taker/Shawn carrying HHH's carcass out and it was a great shot seeing them hug... even if Taker was breaking character a little bit. 

Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy - ***

This match was actually fun to watch back... don't really have much to say but... poor Ryder. 

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****1/4

These two went out there and delivered a superb wrestling match. This match had everything a wrestling fan could want. The action was awesome and I loved the build in pace as the match went on. The psychology with Jericho trying to win the title by dq at the beginning was brilliant, and the two mixing it up between wrestling and brawling was a great touch as it mixes the whole "Best in the World" storyline with the personal-reality this feud has gotten to with everything Jericho has said to Punk the last few weeks. Punk making Jericho tap was the perfect way to end it. Nice little subtle things throughout the match as well made it an awesome one, like for example... not sure if anyone noticed, but before Jericho did tap he made one last kick towards the rope in desperation before finally giving into the pain and tapping out, as well as the knees to Punk's head, followed by Punk adapting and leaning away from the leg area. Stuff like that made this quite a fucking match. If the crowd was more lively throughout I would've given it ****1/2, but still overall the two delivered on the grandest stage. 


The Rock vs. John Cena - ***1/2

The two delivered a spectacle of a match. The crowd was on fire and it was cool to see Rock using moves like the soman drop, his DDT, the flying crossbody... which then went into the usual Cena lifting him and hitting AA, but it was all good. The ending was picture perfect as well. Cena got cocky and tried to use Rock's own move to finish him, but it backfired and led to a picture perfect finish with Rock rock-bottoming Cena for a second time and getting the 1-2-3. Overall the two delivered a great main event. Will it go down as one of the best of all time? No, but considering Rock hasn't been in a singles match in 9 years and the last match he was in he was only in there very briefly, and that Cena's best days are behind him in the ring (and he was never one of the best to begin with), these two delivered a better match technically than I thought they would. There were some strange landings at times from both Rock and Cena, but overall, much like Rock/Hogan, atmosphere/spectacle made up for the technicality in the match (actually, that's also like Taker/HHH the past two years). Oh, and I marked for Rock winning, even though a small part of me was hoping Rock would lose just to see the uproar on this forum. 

But yeah, overall a much better event than last year. The only matches I'd consider bad were the divas match (which I barely paid attention to the first time and didn't re-watch) and Show/Rhodes. Sheamus/Bryan, while not a good result for a World Title match, at least played into Bryan's character perfectly, and the rest of the matches were all at least good, with two ****+ matches. Overall a great Mania. Maybe not one of the best of all time, but I was personally pleased with it.


----------



## mrchrisieclass (Sep 22, 2005)

A-DoubleBaby! said:


> OK I've got to hear this. Pleeeease explain to me how the WORLD CHAMPION losing in one move is great booking.





sharkboy22 said:


> This I would love to know too. Let's hear how clever it was to squash the most over guy in the match.


Ok with pleasure

From a storyline point of view the cowardly heel got his comeuppance and got beaten easily (and created a Wrestlemania momment). Every kid under 10 marked out i guarentee you

From a booking point of view, it gives Bryan a lot of fuel. First he will blame AJ, then he has the embarresment factor to work with. They will use Sheamus embarresing him as the build for the next PPV. Bryan's reaction will be brilliant, I cant wait to see his promo on Smackdown this week. 

And it wasn't a 'squash' technically speaking, he got caught by surprise and pinned. A squash would of seen Sheamus kick the living sh*t out of him for 30 seconds and then pin him.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Yeah, the bad thing about open air stadiums is how much crowd noise is lost. But at the same time it makes it that much more impressive when during Undertaker/HHH and Cena/Rock you could still hear the crowd go absolutely fucking INSANE. Now just imagine if they took place inside a normal arena. Damn.


I don't feel crowd noise is lost. Watch any major sporting event and there is always an amazing atmosphere is a stadium. There just isn't the passion there from the fans anymore, and I don't blame them.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The reasoning makes sense for the way Daniel Bryan lost due to how his character has been booked, but it shouldn't of happened at Wrestlemania. If anything, they should have saved it for Smackdown or Extreme Rules. That really isn't the way you open up a Wrestlemania.


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

Word said:


> I don't feel crowd noise is lost. Watch any major sporting event and there is always an amazing atmosphere is a stadium. There just isn't the passion there from the fans anymore, and I don't blame them.


The crowd noise is definitely lost in stadiums. If you look at the way Sun Life Stadium is laid out, that thing was build more flat than a taller bowl like Met Life Stadium. There wasn't anything to trap crowd noise last night, even from the sides. That sound has no place to go but out.

Watching an NFL football game on TV or other stadium sporting events, that loud reaction you hear on TV has far more to do with how those stadiums are mic'd to broadcast fan reactions. Oftentimes you'll hear quick, distinct audio switches from loud to muted within the span of a second. Having been to NFL games in the past, it hardly ever comes off as loud in person as it does on TV.

Arenas on the other hand, there's no denying when 20,000 people are going bonkers for something. The reaction you hear on TV generally matches the reaction you hear in the arena itself. Arenas built with acoustics in mind are far more exciting places for any event than a stadium. But I get why WWE likes having Wrestlemania in stadiums.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Late, but my ratings for last night...

*Wrestlemania 28*

Sheamus/Bryan - *MINUS FIVE STARS!*

- Really pissed me off to have the WHC match go 18 seconds. It's an even bigger embarrassment than Chavo's loss to Kane at WM24 for the ECW title because the WHC is a main event title. It just goes to show how badly WWE needs to go back to a one brand company because it's clear they don't give a fuck about half of them. Still, the match had no build to it anyway so it fits.

Kane/Orton - ****1/4*

-Solid match. Nothing groundbreaking, but for 11 minutes it was pretty damn good. The finish shocked me, but looking at it now I know why they did it and it makes sense.

Big Show/Rhodes - ***1/4*

-On the one hand I wanted this match to go longer because I genuinely liked the feud, especially Cody's work, but I understand why it only went 5 minutes. It was nothing more than a filler feud, but it was actually good and I was looking forward to this. Cody took some punishment from those giant chops from Show so I give him props from that. They did what they could with what they had.

Divas Match - Didn't give one fuck. "Check your skidmarks" chant was the best thing about the match.

Taker/HHH - *****3/4*

This is where things really started to feel like 'Mania. AWESOME match. Taker took unbelievable amounts of punishment from those chairs. His entire upper back was black and blue and yet he was still able to dash around the ring for those offensive runs. Emotion poured out of all three men, Shawn especially. Him and HHH were dumbfounded at Taker's resilience. I loved it. The ring steps spot was brutal and the Sweet Chin Music/Pedigree spot was ridiculous. We were all jumping out of our seats when it happened, but Taker still kicked out. The ending was great and Taker goes 20-0. We saw glimpses of Shawn turning on HHH AND working against Taker. Ref bumps were fantastic for the lulz and everything just worked. Classic near falls, choreography, bumps, endurance, and emotion. If they had used the cell more it would have been perfect, but nonetheless a fantastic match.

12 Man Tag Match - Not really rating worthy...that and I forgot the entire match. Just a crowd cooler for the double main event. Pretty standard.

Punk/Jericho - *****1/4*

Before rewatching it, I walked away with feeling as though it was a rather boring match. Nothing 4 star worthy at all, but then after watching it a second time, it was an awesome match. Back and forth swings of momentum and offense alike, great intensity, Jericho talking shit, and a fantastic finish. I mean the finish really made this match. Back and forth into submissions and pins really worked the crowd until Jericho attempted a Walls of Jericho which Punk then reversed into an Anaconda Vice. Jericho waited for the crowd to peak and right before it would begin to fall, he tapped. Great match.

Rock/Cena - *****1/4*

Now I think that Punk/Jericho was the better match, but Rock/Cena get the same rating only because of the crowd, the finish, the stage it was on, and obviously The Rock. The match was nothing special. For this grand finale a year in the making with hype video after hype video and video special after video promo after rap battle after Rock concert after Twitter fights, it fell short. It wasn't Rock/Hogan. It was...ehh. Don't get me wrong, definitely a good match, but the middle portions of the match were really slow and for all the hype it got, it didn't feel like either man REALLY wanted it. It never got to the point where either man had to REALLY push through to get the victory. It just sorta happened. I liked the finish and the crowd went APESHIT. I mean they panned out from the hard camera and you can see EVERY SINGLE FAN with their arms in the air jumping around with lights flashing and everyone screaming. It truly was a sight to behold, but I feel like it fell short.


*Wrestlemania 28 - 7.5*

A strong show that had a lot of potential, but fell short. Everyone will look back and remember this as a great Wrestlemania because of Rock/Cena, but objectively speaking it looked better on paper. If Sheamus/Bryan had actually been given time it would have been better, but still better than 25-27. LOADS better. I was actually pleased after watching Wrestlemania for the first time in 4 years.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOON said:


> The reasoning makes sense for the way Daniel Bryan lost due to how his character has been booked, but it shouldn't of happened at Wrestlemania. If anything, they should have saved it for Smackdown or Extreme Rules. That really isn't the way you open up a Wrestlemania.


THIS is the problem I have with Bryan/Sheamus. You do not do that fucking bullshit at WrestleMania. Its a fucking disgrace. I PAID to see this match. I PAID to see it last year and they fucked me over too. Can I get a refund for the money I paid for wanting to watch those matches? Last year I only paid to see Bryan/Sheamus and Undertaker/HHH, so that's £7.50. This year was split between 3 matches (same 2, and then Punk/Jericho) so that's £5. WWE, you owe me £12.50 dammit!!!


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

I was looking forward to Bryan vs Sheamus WM as whole would have been better if they got more time I thought musical introductions for both The Rock and Cena were completely unnecessary they both took a combined twenty minutes if those were removed from the card we could have seen a good wrestling match


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

KingCal said:


> THIS is the problem I have with Bryan/Sheamus. You do not do that fucking bullshit at WrestleMania. Its a fucking disgrace. I PAID to see this match. I PAID to see it last year and they fucked me over too. Can I get a refund for the money I paid for wanting to watch those matches? Last year I only paid to see Bryan/Sheamus and Undertaker/HHH, so that's £7.50. This year was split between 3 matches (same 2, and then Punk/Jericho) so that's £5. WWE, you owe me £12.50 dammit!!!


I agree with you, however, playing devil's advocate here... have you ever illegally streamed/downloaded a WWE-owned show (or match)? If so, then you've probably had more than £12.50's worth of footage from WWE by doing so


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I have a feeling that a certain poster/Green Day fan was tearing up during the HOF portion of the show. 

Anyway, I expect Sheamus/Bryan to kind of play out like Cena/Miz in '09, with Sheamus/Cena squashing in the first match, but then Bryan/Miz are made to look a lot better in the rematch, despite losing again.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*WrestleMania XXVIII*

Bryan/Sheamus: ******
Kane/Orton: *Chokeslam!*
Rhodes/Show: ***
Divas: ****3/4*
Trips/Taker: *******
Team Teddy/Team Johnny: ***
Punk/Jericho: ******
Rock/Cena: *Once in a damn lifetime*

The opener was amazing. It almost lasted 20 seconds. Incredible.

Kane and Orton played with restholds. I could totally see that. You know I come up against masked psychos claiming to be the devil's favourite demon or something and my best strategy is to put a sleeper hold on them. Works every time.

Rhodes vs. Show was a true David vs. Goliath match. Goliath won as he always should.

The Divas Match was brilliant. Maria sold the ribs like she was actually injured or something. Match had a lot to do with butts. Not sure how I feel about it atm. Beth Phoenix stole Loki's helmet but it didn't work. EVE TORRES = GOAT.

Triple and Taker was so unbelievable that I couldn't even believe any of it. Unbelievable. But it really didn't need to be in a Cell. That was just unnecessary. But maybe they wanted Metallica to get their moment out there. And it really didn't need Shawn Michaels. I mean, he's retired and shouldn't have refereed. He didn't do anything the whole match. That was just unnecessary. In fact, we could've easily dispensed with Triple H too, since it was all about the Undertaker. In fact, I gave the match five stars when Undertaker pulled down his hood. Also, why was there so much hugging and spitting?

MORE EVE. GOAT. Did Teddy lose his job? Owell.

CM Punk and Jericho went out there in that ring at wrestlemania in Miami and had a technical wrestling masterpiece of a wrestling match.. that was technical. I mean yeah it could've been better but HOW? I mean yeah the crowd could've been hotter but HOW? Massive match.

Massive.

Rock defeated Cena. OMG OMG OMG. Not sure what to do now.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Cell was necessary only to 'Cell' :torres the match. Either that or someone had to put their career on the line

Otherwise, it was a dramatic masterpiece. Only match I saw that night, and man, it reminded me what makes wrestling so special.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Also, who the fuck is Florida?


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Bryan/Sheamus: N/A
Can't really rate a match like this when it's a complete squash. If rumors are true and they did want this to be the shortest championship match ever, they still failed. I can't stand either of these guys but it wouldn't hurt if they got a solid 12-15 minutes in. You could've easily erased the Funkasaurus segment which was pointless as well as the MGK and Flo-Rida concerts and made up time for this match. 

Kane/Orton: ***
Better than I expected, a bit hard to get into because of the weak build up and the crowd was still shocked from what happened earlier and chanted Daniel Bryan early on. There's some nice back and forth, a couple of interesting counters like Orton reversing Kane's sidewalk slam into his inverted headlock backbreaker and the pace is decent for the most part although it does get a bit dull midway with the sleeper holds. A good bit of Kane's moves, like always, had no logical reasoning behind them so it's a bit lacking from a psychology or storytelling standpoint. I liked the chokeslam off the second rope though. 

Rhodes/Show: **1/4
Didn't mind and it's actually good that it was relatively short. Rhodes working on Show's leg was logical and served purpose as it was meant to take away the size advantage. A bit anti climatic finish but worked nonetheless. 

Maria/Kelly vs Beth/Eve: *
Filler match with a predictable outcome. I can’t say the match was any special either outside a couple of Kelly Kelly moves that caught me off guard. 

Trips/Taker: ****1/2
Unreal match and undoubtedly the match of the night. Storytelling was great and I have to give HBK some props because I wasn’t really digging him as a ref. His actions and facial expressions really sold the match well. The match itself is an emotional rollercoaster that has everything you can really ask for. At least all I could ask for; I can see a small portion of the wrestling purists not liking this match. Plenty of drama with near falls, false finishes, high spots, bumps taken and everything that happened in terms of the sequence was extremely logical and made sense. Loved both Taker and HHH using an excessive amount of charishots as it both signified that they were were getting frustrated as well as going for the absolute end. Two things bring the match down though. As great as it was, it dragged towards the end. Second, they didn’t really use the cell much so it was a bit pointless and unnecessary. I guess they just added it to draw the fans in. 

Team Teddy/Team Johnny: **
Filler match that was probably worse than it should be because the crowd was silent for the most part. Eve serving as a distraction was pretty predictable. 

Punk/Jericho: ****
The crowd brought this down for me. It was dull for the most part and only got hot towards the end. Match is pretty good though especially in terms of storytelling. Y2J playing up to the DQ/title stipulation added earlier was great and Punk sold Jericho’s taunting with his expressions. I thought the suplex off the apron onto the floor was a nice spot and set the tone for Y2J working on Punk’s back with several high impact moves, kicks and submissions which was logical. There’s a lot of back and forth in there, several counters and a couple of false finishes although the crowd does take away from them since they didn’t really react much. 

Rock/Cena: ****
Good match that the crowd really adds to. They were trying to re-create the Hogan/Rock moment in there but the building wasn’t as electric. It’s a solid match for the most part although I didn’t like the prolonged submission holds because they really made the match seem like it was dragging. The pacing is my major issue. This match should’ve been an all out, fast paced brawl that would cater to both of their styles but I’m guessing Rock’s endurance came into play since he really looked gassed towards the end. Selling from both guys is good for the most part. I wish Cena locked in the STFU properly though since it didn't seem like it was having much of an effect, same with The Rock's sharpshooter. Very unpredictable finish with Rock winning though. Glad he did and he gave a great performance wrestling his first singles match in 9 years. Also, I must say that while the crowd made this match, the Taker/HHH match made the crowd. 

Good show overall albeit a couple of filler segments such as the Brodus Clay/Heath Slater ones could’ve just been removed and the time could’ve been given to Sheamus/Bryan. No need to devalue Bryan or the WHC especially at the biggest show of the year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Haven't watched, but it sounds like Teddy v Johnny was prett much morphed into getting Eve over instead of anything else. 

WHC Title match is a decent idea, what with Bryan having his cockiness and laughing at the Big Show's sub-minute reign, but goddamn, the World Title chnage at WrestleMania being an 18 second opener? C'mon. And with news of them wanting to make it shoerter than Kane v Chavo they'll probably lie about the match time like with King Kong Bundy v whoever those midgets were.

The Rock should have won if they plan to continue this thing (which I'll be shocked if they don't). Cena wins -- he's proved his point and has nothing else to gain. Rock's been gone for eight years and doesn't just "move onto something else" like John could.


Also.......I really want the Rock be the one to turn here. 

-----

Contemplating catching the replay, and since I get a free PPV every month I'd definitely do so if it didn't run 4 hours. There's only so many smoke and toilet breaks I could take. I'd be surprised if I actually loved anything on the show, too.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Also, who the fuck is Florida?












?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Im idaho


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

jblvdx said:


> Undertaker V HHH ****3/4
> 
> As close to perfection in terms of storytelling as you can get. Taker looked great, Triple H looked like a fucking murderer in this match, and Shawn derserves a Oscar for his performence acting wise.


SAG award at best


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

He cant win the SAG. No unionising allowed


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> He cant win the SAG. No unionising allowed


Who wants to give Shawn a SAG award?! He can win awards for his reality show.

If anyone deserves an Acting award, it should go to Cena, who made the Rock look decent for half the match, & then let the Rock also get the victory.... And not even admit tonight that John was the better man & wrestler.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

questions for some of you peeps.......

Can you find the Final Four Main Event at in Your House 13 of Bret Hart V Austin V Taker V Vader on a comp anywhere? Same with the main event of Survivor Series 2001 is that on a comp?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So now that last night's epic RAW was the mouthwash that god rid of the awful taste that D-Bryan/Sheamus left in my mouth I have re-watched two matches from WM 28 with a change of mind. I re-watched Taker/HHH as well as Cena/Rock.

Taker/HHH I still have ***1/2 for the reasons I have already listed. Sorry, but IMO it's just not a good match really. Reminds me of Flair/HBK. Take away the emotion and you're left with nothing really but I prefer Flair/HBK over this any day tbh. But that's neither here nor there.

Now here's the match my rating definitely changed for. Rock vs Cena was a great match. Could it have been worked better given the fact that it had a year build and was eagerly anticipated? Maybe. But hold for hold, move for move this was a great match. I loved Cena's facial expression at the end when he attempted the People's Elbow and that moment where The Rock gets up and Cena runs into the Rock Bottom is no doubt a Wrestlemania. But this was a great match. 

Rock vs Cena gets a whopping ****

Anyway, off to bed now. I'm gonna re-watch Jericho/Punk tomorrow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So besides cumming all over my living room at the end of RAW, I gotta say Punk vs. Henry was a pretty damn good match helped immensely by a red hot crowd.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So besides cumming all over my living room at the end of RAW, I gotta say Punk vs. Henry was a pretty damn good match helped immensely by a red hot crowd.


Hurricane Helms, Blue Meanie, & lots of others were saying how great the crowd was on Twitter. My response: "Crowd was great, but got 2 bad shows".


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

TJChurch said:


> Hurricane Helms, Blue Meanie, & lots of others were saying how great the crowd was on Twitter. My response: "Crowd was great, but got 2 bad shows".


Wait, you didn't like this week's Raw? You clearly don't know anything about Pro Graps.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

GOON said:


> Wait, you didn't like this week's Raw? You clearly don't know anything about Pro Graps.


I know nobody else that calls it that... I also know that most fans of wrestling like to watch wrestling, not a ton of talk. (Part of the reason the Rock-Cena feud was often disappointing.)


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

^It's Sports Entertainment.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

GOON said:


> ^It's Sports Entertainment.


In name only. Sometimes it's one, sometimes the other, & some none of the above.


----------



## mrchrisieclass (Sep 22, 2005)

Raw was sh!t hot tonight-are you sure you are a pro-wrestling fan? there was nothing to dislike!


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

mrchrisieclass said:


> Raw was sh!t hot tonight-are you sure you are a pro-wrestling fan? there was nothing to dislike!


There were some things to like & some to not. I SURE don't think it was anywhere near perfect!


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

explain what was bad about this raw that mattered in the grand scheme of the show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lesnar return was great. Complaint:

Jesus does Michael Cole suck. I didn't expect anything better, but he is just as unbearable an announcer as I've heard. I at least thought he would have enough common sense to shut the fuck up like the other commentators were doing and let the moment speak for itself. Imagine that moment without any commentary. WWE keeping Cole employed for fifteen years baffles me. 

Didn't love Cena smiling, either. His upcoming promo will probably be full of "he got me! ahaha" bullshit. If Cena v Lesnar is the feud I would like it to be completely devoid of willy jokes and kept serious.

Overall, though, awesome moment, awesome pop. You have grown men in the crowd imitating Brock's bouncing and flex poses. You've done GOOD.

--
Watched the return on YT; I'll watch the full show when it airs here tomorrow so I can see Danielson and Punk v Henry.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm still dumbfounded watching the Undertaker/Hunter match. It was unbelievably emotional and the storyline they channeled in did signify the "end of an era." Does that mean all of the three are retired now? Is this the last match of both Undertaker and Hunter's career? They left it open because I don't think they want to do a "coming out of retirement" angle in the future.

Personally, I liked last year's match slightly more. Both are true WrestleMania classics and Undertaker's last four WrestleMania matches have been magnificent in all aspects and each has been different than the other.

Speechless is all I can say, although I did say more. The match left me speechless when it ended. It is indeed amazing to watch both these legends pull-off such incredibly awesome matches during the *** end of their careers. On a different note, it was so nostalgic watching three of WWE's truly great wrestlers.

**** 3/4

For now, that's my rating. I'll watch it again and it may bump up into a full five. Thank you Triple H and the Undertaker.

Heck, screw that, I'm going to give it the full five now--just so that it was so emotional. There you go...


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

As excited as I am that Lesnar back, what the hell are they doing to Cena? He's getting his ass kicked all year long by everyone. I mean seriously, I get that there are big plans at work but for the number 1 guy, Cena sure is getting his ass kicked ALOT

As for Lesnar, I hope he's back full time. By which I mean, PPVs and RAW at times. I know he hates the road no obviously no house shows, but a consistent schedule would be awesome


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

mrchrisieclass said:


> Raw was sh!t hot tonight-are you sure you are a pro-wrestling fan? there was nothing to dislike!


Exactly this. Every argument those nitcpicky IWC members love to bring up I covered in my sort of in-depth personal opinions on RAW last night.



> The WWE is like a fricking abuse partner, I can't stay mad at it because it treats so damn good at the same time. First off, I would like to apologise formy prickish behaviour the past 24 hours. I was a victim of my own belief. Everytime someone would bitch bout something WWE did I often said "Just shut up and wait till it plays out" and that's what I was supposed to do, and I didn't.
> 
> RAW was great tonight. I was entertained for the entire two hours. *The lowest point of the show for me was probably the shit with Ziggler but it was entertaining and is the farthest thing from a burial*.
> 
> ...


The parts that I bolded are oviously points people bring up when discussing RAW, that I obviously have logical counters to.

Oh and @redeadening after the awesomeness of the moment had worn off I too was like, damn what's up with Cena being everyone's bitch lately. But I live by the motto of "Shut the fuck up and wait for it to all play out, then complain if you have to"

EDIT:And just what the heck is that guy complaining about lack of wrestling? The triple threat was fun, so too was Miz/Ryder and CM Punk/Henry was a really, really good match. Sometimes I wonder what the heck else more you can ask for. Do these people expect 2 hours of non-stop wrestling?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWE WrestleMania 28 01/04/2012*

On paper, a pretty great looking card. Watching it live, it was a fun event mostly and I enjoyed most of the matches. Now to see how things hold up on a re-watch and after I've had some time to digest everything.


*Daniel Bryan Vs Sheamus - World Heavyweight Championship*

I was looking forward to this match. Out of the £15 I spend to watch WM live, £5 of it went on this match. What a waste of fucking money.

So the bell rings, and Bryan wants AJ to give him a good luck kiss before they officially get into it. They kiss, and Bryan turns around into a kick to the face and is pinned, losing the WHC. What a load of fucking bullshit.

Now, this MIGHT very well lead to something good, with Bryan's character developing even more than it already has in the last few months. It might lead to somewhere truly great, and that's, well, great. But that's no excuse for doing this at WRESTLEMANIA. Do it on SD. Do it at a "B" PPV like Extreme Rules. But don't do it at WRESTLEMANIA. Can I get my £5 back? And while I'm at it, I paid £7.50 to see this match last year too and it didn't even fucking happen on the show. I had to buy the show again on Bluray to see it.

*Rating: DUD*


*Kane Vs Randy Orton*

Kane shook Orton's hand last year so now they need to have a match at WM. Totally understandable...

I was actually surprised by this match; it didn't suck. Kane since his return really hasn't looked that good, but here at WM he looked better than he has in a while.

Orton kept trying to go full speed ahead but Kane would absorb everything thrown at him and then nail Randy with one big powerful looking move, allowing him to wear down the Viper and control the match.

This is WrestleMania though, and Orton just keeps coming back again and again, forcing Kane to take bigger chances such as attempting the clothesline from the top rope which doesn't go as well as he'd hoped. Neither does the chokeslam, with Randy being able to kick out!

So if the chokeslam don't work, what do you do? Super chokeslam! Was actually expecting Orton to reverse this into an RKO ala WM 21, but damn, Kane actually hit it AND got the 3 count! I legit thought Kane stood no chance of winning a WrestleMania match against a guy like Orton, but he did it. Which I guess means a re-match at Extreme Rules. Not fussed about this "feud" continuing, but it keeps Orton out of the title picture for a little while longer and with a stipulation they could have another good match.

All in all, solid stuff here. Kane actually looked good, Orton in a loss still looked good as it took a super chokeslam to beat him AND he never hit the RKO so we don't know for sure if Kane would have been able to kickout of it had he landed it.

*Rating: **3/4*



*Cody Rhodes Vs The Big Show - Intercontinental Championship*

One of the few matches on this show with a decent build up, and honestly Cody was the one carrying the feud with his promos and the video packages of Show's embarrassing WM moments lol.

This one goes exactly as I thought it would; Show starts dominant, Cody finds an opening for a little while, then Show mauls Cody and wins. I just hoped that Cody would find a way to retain the title because Show doesn't need it in the slightest, and I don't see Cody going into the main event scene just yet so taking the title from him was pointless. Unless he moves to Raw and does something with the US belt before that dies completely (Santino has it still, right? Urgh).

Best part of this match was Show spearing Cody in the balls.

Luckily this isn't too long (though they might as well have had this go as long as the WHC match with Show just knocking out Cody, so the WHC match could have actually been a match). Its not BAD, but its short and there isn't much to it so I can't call it good either. Just kinda there, not annoying me, but entertaining me a little.

*Rating: *3/4*



*Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos Vs Beth Phoenix & Eve*

Literally had no idea what this match was happening or who Maria was going into WM. Luckily they showed up a video of how the match was set up. Was fucking awful lol. Such bad acting by everyone. And I still don't really know who Maria is. Gotta love WWE getting someone with main stream appeal!

I will give Maria come credit though. Had I not watched WWE for a few months and then just randomly saw this match without seeing the "build up" video, I would have assumed she was a normal diva, because she's about as untalented as everyone else.

Kelly Kelly and Maria win, because Maria is a "celebrity" and they can't possibly have a celeb lose a match.

*Rating: 1/4**



*The Undertaker Vs Triple H - Special Guest Referee: Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match*

Fuck. Yes. This is where another £5 went lol. Awesome that JR got to call the match, and they actually didn't ruin it by playing up on all the shit between him and Cole. In fact, Cole was toned down a TON all night, which was awesome. He's decent when he isn't being a retard.

The build up to this one hasn't been epic, but I have enjoyed it more than any other WM match build this year. The whole "uncertainty" angle with Undertaker was a great way to set up the re-match imo. I remember listening to a radio show with JR, and the host summed up this angle in a great way. Its just like Rocky II. Undertaker is Apollo Creed, and he wants the rematch because, and I quote "I won but I didn't BEAT him". And that's just perfect for this. Undertaker got the win last year, but he was unable to leave the ring on his own and wasn't able to return until a year later. So he wants another shot at HHH to prove that he CAN beat The Game and not JUST win the match.

Undertaker's coat looks epic btw. And his new hair cut reveal isn't nearly as bad as I was thinking. I was expecting him to be completely bald and clean shaven on top of his head, but its grown back a little and he even has a slight Mohawk going that actually adds to his new look.

The cell lowers to the sound of Metallica, and I have to wonder what shitty generic rock music they'll replace it with when they release the show on DVD/Bluray. Seriously, why bother getting music like that for JUST the one night and not including it on the DVD/Bluray releases? They've done it before in the part, but now they replace anything they don't already own the rights to.

Last year, Triple H ran straight into The Undertaker to start the match and would be the one to control the pace and the match for the most part. This year, Undertaker has something to prove to himself and to HHH, so HE starts the match on fire and takes the fight right to HHH, showing him that the beating he took last year isn't going to happen again; at least, not to HIM.

I've been reading Mick Foley's first book as of late, and there is a chapter where he talks a little about the best way to bust someone open "the hard way". It involves targeting the spot just above the eyebrow... and about 3 minutes into this match I noticed that Undertaker starts targeting that exact spot with a couple of right hands and a few headbutts! Blood might be a big no-no in WWE these days, but hey, if someone is "accidentally" busted open, they can't be punished, right? Besides, who the FUCK is going to come down to the ring and stop a Hell in a Cell match between HHH and THE UNDERTAKER? Nobody with a brain.

The match slows down a little for a while now unfortunately. The match is inside the cell so I guess they figure they should do SOMETHING with it, and that ends up as nothing more than throwing each other into the side of it a couple of times. There really was no need to put this contest inside HIAC. I think they did it just to say that HHH and Undertaker finally had a HIAC match.

Things pick up again when HHH tries to get himself back into the match with a quick DDT. He attempts a Pedigree on the steel steps that Undertaker brought in the ring, but a back body drop puts a stop to that. A nice little callback spot I guess you could say from their previous match, except last year it was a table HHH got back dropped. 

Another callback spot from last year with HHH hitting a brutal AA Spinebuster, except its the steel steps once again standing in for the table and damn does it look and sound a hell of a lot worse than last year! A desperate Undertaker sees an opportunity to use Hells Gate, but HHH has it scouted and is able to power Undertaker up and set him crashing to the mat! Undertaker's back has taken some punishment now, so its time for the cerebral assassin to do what he does best; go to work on an injured body part.

Time for the HBK factor to get involved in the match, with HHH brutalising The Undertaker with a steel chair, causing Shawn to show some concern for the man who ended his career. Triple H tells Shawn to end it, to ring the bell and stop the suffering of one of the biggest legends, or else HE'LL end it, and it won't be as quick and painless as ringing a bell. Undertaker makes damn sure to tell Shawn not to end it, which just infuriates HHH to the point where he brings out his trusty Sledgehammer to finish the job.

HBK gets involved again, actually preventing HHH from smashing the sledgehammer down on the head of the Dead Man. Instead he looks like he's going to ring the bell, a way he sees best to prevent HHH from not just beating HHH, but ENDING him. But its WrestleMania, and The Undertaker isn't going to let a match end like this any time, never mind HIS show. And if Shawn is considering ringing the bell, Undertaker believes he needs to take out Shawn, and he locks in the Hells Gate! With Shawn gone, HHH is next to feel the pain of Hells Gate, and just like the end of last year's match, HHH does his best to use the sledgehammer but he passes out from the pain! This one is OVER! Except... HBK is still out!

Another referee runs down as Undertaker levels HHH with a Chokeslam, and we get probably the biggest near fall a Chokeslam has gotten in quite some time, as HHH was still out from the Hells Gate and might not have been able to kick out. The referee suffers for only making a 2 count, and then...

SWEET CHIN MUSIC! SWEET CHIN MUSIC! HBK kicks Undertaker's teeth down his throat, and sends him straight into a Pedrigee! Its over! Its over! NO!!! Undertaker WILL NOT DIE! 

Triple H goes back to the trusty Sledgehammer, but Undertaker sits up and nearly scares HHH into submission! Its almost like Undertaker is remembering everything that happened to him last year, and its firing him up more than ever before! Tombstone! HBK makes the count... only 2! Shawn is GREAT here as he sits in the corner looking like an emotional wreck, knowing he almost screwed Undertaker out of his streak, and almost counted out his best friend in this "end of an era" match.

We get a great battle from both men as they throw big lefts and rights at each other to the "yey!" and "boo!" of the crowd, with them starting off on their knees before staggering up and continuing it on their feet. PEDIGREE! Another 2 count, and Shawn looks like he just wants this one to end so nobody has to get hurt any more.

With both men hurting badly, they begin to crawl to separate weapons. Undertaker goes for a chair, and HHH for his sledgehammer. A great visual as Undertaker has the chair in his hand, and stands on the sledgehammer before HHH can pick it up. All the chair shots Undertaker received earlier are now fresh in his mind, and similar to the HIAC match with Edge back in 2008, Undertaker looks now to give everything back to his opponent and then some. Chairshots the head have been outlawed in WWE, but the way these two have been swinging the chair for just back shots more than makes up for it. These are hard and every bit as brutal as a chair shot to the head would be.

The match now really is a reverse of last year; Undertaker has destroyed HHH with chair shot after chair shot and is screaming at HHH to stay down, but like Undertaker last year, HHH refuses to, even though he has almost nothing left. Another tremendous visual moment as HHH charges at Undertaker one last time with the sledgehammer, only for Undertaker to put a stop to it and shake his head. HHH, like his best friend HBK 2 years earlier, is defiant to the end and essentially forces Undertaker to finish him because there really is no other way. Another Tombstone, and this one is over. The Undertaker is able to put his year of uncertainty behind him as he not only won, but he BEAT Triple H.

The stuff that follows the match is really fucking great too. We have Undertaker and Shawn hugging, as Undertaker breaks away from his "Dead Man" character as much as possible without being Mark Calaway. And it was great to see Undertaker and HBK help HHH up and WALK him up the ramp to the back. Almost like Undertaker didn't want HHH to go through what he went through last year. It might not have been on his own, but dammit, HHH WALKED out of WrestleMania. As JR put it, "That ladies and gentlemen, is respect". This really was an end of an era, because its going to be a long damn time before anything like this is going to be able to take place in WWE.

This was incredible. Better than last year. If it wasn't for the part near the beginning of the match slowing things down and not really going anywhere, I'd throw the full ***** at it. This is one hell of a way to finish the incredible story arc that in a way began at WrestleMania 24 with HBK ending the career of Ric Flair. It really doesn't get any better than this.

*Rating: ****3/4*



*Team Johnny: David Otunga, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, Drew McIntyre, Mark Henry & The Miz Vs Team Teddy: Santino Marella, Kofi Kongston, R-Truth, The Great Khali, Booker T & Zack Ryder - Winning GM gains control of both Raw and Smackdown*

Team Teddy is the worst team of all time. Not one guy worth a damn. Luckily Team Johnny has some talented guys who can take great bumps and hopefully make this match interesting.

I mentioned earlier about Cole on commentary actually being decent as he wasn't playing up on his heel persona, and King wasn't bitching at him much either. Unfortunately this match is where things go to hell a little bit as they start their bitching at each other because Cole is on Team Johnny's side and Lawler is on Long's. And from there we get the typical "Be a STAR, not a bully... unless it involves Vickie Guerrero" bullshit and some pointless arguing between the announcers lol.

The actual match is... well its not bad, and has a few fun moments. Too much talent involved and not enough time (though believe me, given most of the guys involved I wouldn't want this to last half an hour lol) for them to really get things going and to have a full on match. But what they give us is pretty fun for the most part at least. Heart skipped a beat when Santino was left along in the ring with Miz and hit the Cobra. Thank fuck for Ziggler. Not just for breaking up the 3 count, but in general .

And thank fuck Team Johnny won, and LOL at Eve causing Zack to be the one to lose, then kicking him in the balls for being such a retarded fuck. He deserved everything he got tbh. She played him, was after Cena... then when Cena turned her down she went back to Zack and his cock took over his brain and he let her back in his life even though she was still shitting all over him. Moron.

So yeah. Fun mostly, but nothing much else. The right team won. Had low expectations for this so I was more surprised with how much fun it was than disappointed with the fact it wasn't technically "good". I'd rather watch this than a lot of WM 27.

*Rating: ***



*CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship*

And here is where my last £5 went. Yep, I didn't pay to see Cena/Rock. I'll talk more about that when I get to it though.

Before the match, Punk is backstage and runs into Johnny, who adds the stipulation that if Punk loses his cool and gets DQ'd, he also loses the WWE Title. Punk does his best to look... pissed off? I dunno. His facial expressions as of late have been fucking horrible lol, making me want to laugh during this feud more than anything. Jericho added to that with his hilarious dick headed comments about Punk's family. Wrestling needs more dick head heels btw. Been watching a bunch of ROH stuff from Joe and Danielson and KENTA in 06 when Bryan was a heel and the other 2 were... I dunno, tweeners maybe, and all 3 just act like complete DICKS to each other and it makes their matches, be it singles, tag or triple thread, so much fucking fun. So yeah. More dick heads in wrestling please! Austin Aries in TNA is one of the best things going right now because of the way he acts tbh.

The match begins with some nice little mat work, with both men wanting to prove that they are the best in the world. But Punk has more on his mind; he wants to beat the hell out of Jericho as well. Jericho sees this, and goes to work...

The new stipulation allows Punk and Jericho to add a little something more to their match here. Jericho gets to be a DICK and its just great to watch. With the title now being able to change hands on a DQ, Jericho decides he's going to make Punk so mad he'll get himself DQ'd and literally hand the belt to Chris.

It starts off with a couple of slaps, but that doesn't seem to be getting the job done. So Jericho brings up Punk's Dad, but again Punk is able to cool himself off and not fully lose control. Time to bring out the Sister card, and again Punk goes crazy but pulls himself together before before he does something he'll regret. Jericho literally BEGS Punk to hit him in the head with a chair, and its just awesome. He's so fucking happy as he does it too. Only Funk and Foley come to mind when I think about people smiling and begging to be hit with a chair lol.

When it becomes obvious Punk isn't going to get himself DQ'd, Jericho has to out-wrestle Punk in order to win, and luckily for him all the things he has been saying has caused Punk to lose focus. Love the transition spot into Jericho's "wrestling" part of the match. The suplex from the ring to the outside was a hell of a manly bump.

We get some really nice back work from Chris, and the spot where Jericho throws Punk off the ropes is great due to the slow motion replay and both Cole and Lawler just going "oh MAN" at the same time while watching it. Looked sick in slow motion.

Punk makes his comeback and the match becomes more of a back and forth even contest which fits in nicely with the story of both men claiming to be the best in the world. Only real complaint I have here is how Punk shrugs off the back work completely. Didn't expect him to sell his back like death for the rest of the match, especially since Jericho doesn't go back to it aside from the Walls of Jericho, but damn, one minute Punk is having his back worked over, and the next he's fighting back and acting like nothing happened at all lol.

Anyone else for a moment thought that Jericho was going to hit the Styles Clash when he countered a Hurricanrana into a Walls of Jericho? Just me? Ah well lol.

I love how they transition seamlessly from the back and forth stuff into a finishing stretch, and do it without completely killing the concept of finishers too. I think Punk kicks out of a Codebreaker ONCE, and only because he had time to rest and recover before Jericho made the cover, and in a big match at WM that's kinda to be expected, and in this match it really works into the story of both men being the best in the world and having what it takes to kick out of such things.

They really work their submissions beautifully in the match too. Jericho finding a way out of the Anaconda Vice by using his knees is great, and then Punk finding a way to counter the counter which results in Jericho having to tap is even better.

Totally loved this match. Great storytelling, starting out with Jericho trying to get Punk to lose his temper and get DQ'd, then moving onto both men just trying to prove they are the best in the world. Prefer Undertaker/HHH to it, but I've come to expect that I'll like "big" Undertaker matches more than most people, and I can certainly see a lot of people thinking this was the best match of the night and other than my personal preference for Undertaker/HHH I'd find it hard to come up with much of a reason to disagree. Blew my expectations away, which were a little low as I didn't want to be disappointed and I honestly doubted both men a little in their ability to have a truly great match with each other. Luckily they proved me wrong!

*Rating: ****1/2*



*John Cena Vs The Rock*

Urgh. It always sucks a little when they most hyped up match for WrestleMania doesn't interest you in the slightest. I don't like The Rock. Never have. I'm not one of those people who bitches because he left for Hollywood. I like that he left for Hollywood because it meant he wasn't on my wrestling show any more. I don't care much for Cena. I'm not one of those people who thinks he can't wrestle in the slightest or have good matches, I just don't enjoy his character. Even as the rapper. I've just never connected with Cena, but I've always at least been able to enjoy his matches when they have been good, and yeah, he's got a bunch of them. Same can be said for The Rock, I like a bunch of his matches too.

Unfortunately I just can't find any motivation to give a shit about this match. I don't like either guy, I don't like their characters, and the build up to this one has been atrocious. Absolutely atrocious. They had an ENITRE YEAR to build this one up, and it consisted of the same old shit from both men over and over again. Oh, The Rock left and I'm always here. Well, Cena is a fruity pebble and a *insert takeaway food here* bitch. A year of THAT. It wasn't good, clever or funny the first time they did it. Why would it be any of that the next billion times they said it? I hear people say that feuds these days are too short and in the good old days they could last a year blah blah blah. Well in this day and age its impossible to keep things going for a long time because a) there is far more programming than there was 20 years ago, and b) creative struggle to come up with an interesting angle that last longer than a fucking week. And that's all this one was; a week's worth of ideas on repeated for a fucking year. As I write this, I haven't had the chance to see Raw yet (Its Tuesday afternoon), so I don't know what might have happened there, but I have to say, I fucking HOPE they don't announce a rematch because I don't know if I could take this boring, shitty, uncreative feud any more.

Nice to see that both guys get extremely long and shitty entrances from so called "singers" that I've never heard of and for good reason because they suck, while the WHC match got 18 seconds. Once again, FUCK YOU, ROCK. Your shitty boring pointless promo last year at WM prevented Bryan/Sheamus from happening on the show, and this year your shitty boring pointless entrance took away all but 18 seconds from Bryan/Sheamus. And fuck you too, Cena. And Vince McMahon.

Now I have that out of my system, time to watch the match. Urgh.

Collar and Elbow tie ups to start things off, with Cena powering Rock across the ring the first time, kinda like he was saying "LOL @ Teh Moviez Star". Then Rock powers Cena across the ring with the second one as if to say "I may have been to Hollywood, but I'm as much of a wrestler as you as, so don't take me lightly, bitch". Then Rock busts out some ZOMGWRESTLING moves that shocks Cena and almost catches him off guard so much he almost gets pinned!

Cena is getting frustrated, but takes a time out and this allows him to regain his composure and when he gets back into the ring, he is able to take control of the match by targeting Rock's ribs and utilises the bear hug. Unfortunately these bear hug spots are as dull as shit and damn, I know wrestling is "fake" but come on, if you are going to talk to each other in holds, try and do it quietly lol. Takes away from the match a little, and believe me, I'm not into the match that much to begin with .

After a while they take turns at hitting finishers, which breaks up the dull fest of bear hugs nicely, and then Cena goes back to controlling Rocky followed by a Rock control segment which involves his terrible attempt at a Sharpshooter.

Speaking of shitty attempts at submission holds... STFU! More god awful, dull and shitty submission spots from Cena. This match is way too long.

We go into the finishing stretch now, and its finishers for the most part, which I'm fine with because its a "huge" match and nobody is going to buy either of these being beaten by just ONE finisher. Rock goes to the ropes at one point, and in a nice throwback to his early days, lands a crossbody! But Cena rolls throw and hits the FU (or AA, whatever)! Legit thought this was it, but Rock kicked out and then I remembered something; movie stars always win! And yeah, Rock wins. Rock Bottom while Cena mocks Rock by attempting the People's Elbow.

So its finally over. The whole "Once in a lifetime" stuff better be fucking true because I don't want to see this match again as long as I live. It went on WAY too long, and if it wasn't for the crowd I probably would have shot myself half way through. Rock/Hogan not only had a better atmosphere than this in all honestly, but the actual MATCH was better too imo. Watching it live I was able to keep with it and somewhat enjoyed it. Didn't hold up on a re-watch. Kane/Orton was better as far as a MATCH goes. Crowd and Atmosphere were obviously better than anything Kane/Orton had, but that's the ONLY thing this match had over it.

*Rating: **3/4*



*Overall Rating: 7.5/10*

For the most part I really enjoyed this show. Undertaker/HHH and Punk/Jericho were both fantastic, and while nothing else on the undercard really stands out, its all mostly FUN at least.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Talk about Brock "GOAT" Lesnar, Cal.

In the mean time, I'm probably going to read all of that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar being back is FUCKING AWESOME. Entire Raw was petty great last night. Great crowd, some great matches, and some great moments. Didn't hate Rock's promo as much as usual, Punk/Henry was really fucking good, Lord Tensai (ALBERT~!) debuting was great, can't wait to see what they'll do with him, Brodus looking like he's gonna be in a real feud is exciting and that fucking headbutt bump from Ziggler was incredible. YES! YES! YES! chants while Del Rio says whatever the fuck he was saying to Sheamus was great. Fuck you WWE for what you did to Bryan. I just hope he's still this over in non WM smarky crowds next week. LESNAR. Shame the crowd got so bored with Cena they had to ruin the surprise, but dammit, Lesnar was awesome anyway. Crowd went nuts for him. And he killed Cena. What's NOT to love?

LESNAR~!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena will be fine, and the fact he's now turned heel by not turning heel is even better. Don't get me wrong I'd prefer a more serious Cena like we got for the most part in 2007 to what he is now, but they've found a way to make him even more hated by those who resent what he stands for and have him now playing up to them in the most obvious way possible whilst still popping his fans who love the 'Rise against Hate' Cena character. I mean christ he straight up begged that crowd to cheer at the thought of him turning on them there and then only to smile and say 'that will never happen' and he appropriately got great heat. It was up there with HBK faking out Montreal with Bret's theme in 2005 or whenever Jericho or JBL would tease an interaction with a fan and then ignore them etc. Just pure brilliance and the Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks dynamic is as strong as ever nowadays which is exactly what WWE wants...his fans will still buy the merchandise and the haters will still pay to see him lose or to abuse him or to be there if he should ever turn.

Raw itself was a great show which progressed feuds and layed the groundwork for future feuds, IMO it should be Cena/Brock at Summerslam to try and raise the image of Summerslam which is dieing a painful death with the annual shit buildup the show is getting. Cena/Brock isn't going to last a year and tbh they'd be smarter having Rock/Brock for the title at WM29 (I'd usually be all for that being non title but can you imagine the interest if people think Rock is gonna win the title and at least be back for a short run as champion? Its stupid to pass up) and run Cena/Taker with Cena trying to end the Streak to reclaim his dominance after losing to Brock and Rock in two of his biggest matches ever.

Punk/Henry and possibly Punk/Tensai could be really great feuds in the future especially Punk/Henry after perhaps the current MOTY last night (will get to that in a moment), Funkasauras/Santino v Vickie's group could be good undercard fun and the Johnny Ace abuse of power has a lot of legs in it. Bryan/Sheamus should really be the way forward on Smackdown and it was incredible to see him that over last night. 

Every segment was at the worst fine and the whole show felt like it was structured brilliant, the matches and segments seemed to flow naturally and not drag for half an hour before the next good segment. It was honestly minute by minute one of the best Raw's I've seen and I'd stick by that, constant entertainment from the wrestlers and the crowd.

Now onto business and the current MOTY:

*CM Punk(c) v Mark Henry, WWE Championship, RAW 02/04/2012*

Yeah this was an excellent match and without doubt the best match I've seen so far this year (behind on Lucha atm) and was a brilliant Sting/Vader esque match. Punk was brilliant selling the wear and tear of last night's match from the outset and was great selling it during his offence, specifically the Macho Man Elbow drop which worked as not only a great spot to finally down Henry (something they expertly built to all match) but also in coming across as a big spot that may have cost Punk long term. His strikes and offence got so much better the longer the match went on and the crowd being with him every step of the way continued the great desperation theme of Punk fighting with everything he had to escape this improbable situation.

Henry himself was phenomenal and just illustrated why he was so god damn brilliant last year, his trashtalking was as good as its ever been (Did I say you could get up, you sit back down) and was incredible character work to generate heat and build sympathy for Punk and he worked some damn right nasty cut off spots with his brute strength. He was equally as stiff and violent as he ever is and served as the perfect ass kicker to break Punk down with every bit of offence he had and his selling was just picture perfect in giving the fans enough room to buy that Punk could hurt the big man whilst in no way damaging his credibility as the dominating ass kicker. The build throughout the match to Punk finally taking down Henry with the running knee was super and the sort of long term payoff that will always pop a crowd.

However what really put this match over the top was the booking for the finish. So many times WWE does these piss poor DQ/countout finishes that can kill a match's heat in the blink of an eye but here they pulled off an incredibly organic finish which crucially protected both men as Punk couldn't beat Henry without weakening him whilst a title change was obviously out of the question. Punk gradually wearing down Henry with the strikes and slowly softening him up for the knee strikes in the corner and subsequent bulldog was great and Henry's counter was a fitting desperation spot for the big man who was finally on the ropes for the first time in the match. Punk's bump looked nasty and believeable and in the context of the match served as an acceptable bump on which he'd struggle to make a 10 count & crucially Henry taking the time to sell the barrage of strikes to his head which had left him dazed ensured he didn't look like an idiot for letting Punk be counted out, but rather his body was still recovering from Punk's comeback and didn't recuperate in time to throw Punk back in the ring.

So aye, brilliant selling and cut off spots, a long build to a satisfying comeback which popped the crowd and some detailed and insightful booking to protect both men and leave a rematch down the line as something necessary, for once an excellent job by WWE and this was better than anything on the Wrestlemania card.

*****1/4*


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

better than Taker vs Triple H?

i have no son segunda! go back to watching your ***** valencia scoring his goals from impossible angles ya queer!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Aye better than HHH v Taker, I enjoyed that match a hell of a lot more than last year's and thought they structured it much better and did a great job keeping the crowd invested in the match...but I'm just not feeling it as anything close to *****. I'd put it about ***3/4 for the great story of Taker becoming the Phenom again as well as his selling of the chair attack, but man I just cannot in anyway get into HHH as a wrestler these days. Everytime the dude started a monologue about HBK having to end the match I just wanted him to shut up and wrestle the match....I dunno I thought Taker and HBK at Wrestlemania 26 did a much better job telling a story through their sequences than HHH did yelling it to the back row.

God damn at the spinebuster on the jagged edge of the steel steps though, that was certainly the bump of the night.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I haven't watched Henry vs. Punk but the thought of it being better than Taker/Trips is laughable.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I So jus re watched CM Punk vs Chris Jericho and it's a prtty good match but he pacing just feels a bit off in the match. I give it ***3/4

I just really can't dig Taker/HHH no matter how much I try. Give me their match last year over this one anyday 9and tbh I wasn't that big a fan of last year's match either). Like I said, Taker/HHH=Flair/HBK. I think that's a fair comparison. 

So if you're one that thinks Flair/HBK was anything ****+ then most likely Taker/HHH is ****+ to you. But to me Flair/HBK was ***1/2 and likewise so is Taker/HHH. It's not a good HELL IN A CELL MATCH. I'm rating this match based on the fact that it's a Hell In A Cell match and to me it's just another typical PG era HIAC match. To me the best HIAC match since WWE went PG is Edge vs Taker at Summerslam 2008. All the others, including Taker/HHH, just feel like regular No-Dq matches and the cell just encloses them look awkward as fuck.

I just find a lot of people are overrating Taker/HHH and I rather watch Rock/Cena or Jericho/Punk over it anyday. Taker/HHH is just one of those matches where you see it once and that's it. The first time I saw it I was emotionally invested I have to say but the second time around it felt like a chore to watch. At least Flair/HBK is a match that I've seen three times and never once got bored of it, so I rally don't know if I could compare the two now lol.

But yeah, Taker/HHH, IMO, is just not a good match.

Segunda ****1/4 man? Not that 1/4 of a star makes much a difference but I probably have CM Punk/Henry anywhere around ***3/4-****. It was a damn good match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I've gotta watch Henry/Punk again after seeing these thoughts. I wasn't giving 100% of my attention to it as I was entertaining my 3-year old nephew at the same time... nor did I think it would be anything special. It's crazy to think to some people at least it's in that 4 star range, and as for it being MOTY, I can't see it beating Jericho/Punk for that title, but hey... won't know until I see it. 

And glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Taker/HHH is getting overrated. I have the match at **** though, but it's on the lower end and I can't see myself ever putting it near *****. I do think it's better than last year's match though. But overall it was a great match... just not the HIAC between the two I would've liked.


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

*WrestleMania XXVIII*

Bryan/Sheamus: *
Kane/Orton: ***
Rhodes/Show: **
Divas: **1/2
Trips/Taker: ****
Team Teddy/Team Johnny: **3/4
Punk/Jericho: ****1/2
Rock/Cena: ****

Overal: A great show and is probably up there as one of the best manias.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I haven't watched Henry vs. Punk but the thought of it being better than Taker/Trips is laughable.


Not really, I didn't hate the HIAC and quite enjoyed a lot of it but Punk's selling was about as good if not better than any selling in the Cell match, Henry's offence was tremendous and focused, they built to the comeback superbly with Henry continually cutting off Punk at every opportunity and there was just nothing I could find fault with. 

The Cell match on the other hand had HHH in it, now that may seem a harsh criticism but the man does nothing for me as a worker these days and instantly reduced my emotional investment in the match, I don't really like his and Taker's chemistry and found some of the attempts at DRAMA to be too overdone (though I understand why they had to overact) and forced compared to Michaels/Flair and Michaels/Taker. I thought they placed the finisher kickouts much better here and played off of last year's match well with key call back spots but its a match I think is designed for a live audience....enthralling to watch but its not the sort of match that I can see getting better with every viewing. The nearfalls lose their impact and in the case of HHH/Taker I found the nearfalls in both matches to be one of the key aspects in what made the match so gripping live, whereas HBK/Taker has smarter work in between big spots and generally better chemistry and character dynamics.

I just don't very much care for HHH at all and found Taker and to an extent some of Michaels' acting/reactions to be the glue of the match. The crowd were magnificent and it was a better 'epic' match than last years which suffered too much from poor placement of finisher kickouts and stalling, I did really enjoy the story of Taker taking back his aura and dominance and thought that played in very well with the finish. But if you're asking me which match I could watch time after time I'll stick with Punk/Henry since it has enough tangibles to hold up on a rewatch whereas HHH/Taker's quality was rooted in the suspense of the nearfalls which will only become less special with every rewatch of the match.

Also *Obis* don't go in expecting as good a match as I thought it was, I mean this is literally everything I can ask for in a 2012 wrestling match: story, character work, selling, less is more etc. I can definitely see a lot more matches by the end of the year topping this from a workrate perspective but in terms of entertainment value and a personal favourite match this will be hard to top.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Undertaker Vs Triple H (Special Guest Referee: Shawn Michaels) * ****3/4
*CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho * ****
*John Cena Vs The Rock* ***1/2


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I know I'm a little late on my thoughts, but I ate way too much pizza and pop 'ems Sunday night, and was in no condition to share my thoughts. This review is based on both my live viewing and my immediate second review. I usually watch A WrestleMania three times in the first couple of months: live, downloaded the next day, and a month later when I get the DVD. This review is based solely on the first two viewings.

*WHC: Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus*
I may not have mentioned it before, but I had a feeling this would happen. The match was too randomly paired, there was no buildup, and with so much time needed for the three main events, I knew they were going to cut somewhere, and it had to be here. Am I glad that the WHC is reduced to an afterthought, opening the ppv, and being contested in 18 seconds? No. When I got back into wrestling, the WHC matches were HHH/HBK/Benoit and HHH/Batista killing each other for 20+ minutes. The title is completely dead.

However, I am okay with Sheamus capitolizing on DB allowing himself to be distracted, getting a big win, and re-legitimzing the title. I mean, the belt looks great on him, he's a big, agile guy who could probably have some great main events, and this could be the start of the best WHC reign since Batista in late 2007. It got a good pop, and as someone else said, I could completely buy a rematch in which a pissed off DB really goes after Sheamus. The match was just like Mysterio/JBL at 25 and Chavo/Kane in that no one was paying to see it. Haha, the bigger guys always win.

** (out of 5)

*Randy Orton vs. Kane*
Kind of falls in line with Batista/Umaga for me: two big names who had nothing else to do, they had some solid exchanges, but the match just never took off. I don't mind the win, since Kane beating Orton at WM completely elevates him, while Orton is big enough that the loss won't hurt him.

**1/2

*IC Title: Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show*
Reminded me a lot of Punk/Show from NOC '10: little guy heel bumping like crazy, taking the fight, getting some advantage, but being made short work of. Good for the time it got.

**1/4

*Divas Tag*
Not bad as far as 7-minute divas matches go. Kelly Kelly has gotten better in the ring, I appreciate the fact that Menounous "gets" in, loves the product, sells like crazy, and works with her opponents.

**

*HIAC: Undertaker vs. Triple H*
To me, like sequels, a lot HUGE rematches are rarely as good as the original. HBK/Angle II at Vengeance, HBK/UT at WM XXVI, Cena/Punk at SummerSlam, Angle/Guerrero at SS, for example, were all far cries from the original. I loved UT/HHH at WM XXVII. I had no idea it would be so intense, so powerful, so compulsively rewatchable. Probably one of the fastest 30 minutes ever. I anticipated a rematch, but was very hesitant about if they could follow up.

Somehow, they did. Everything about this match was perfect. UT coming out with a cool costume, his haircut indicating just how much HHH's beating changed him, HBK feeling sorry for UT getting his ass kicked, UT putting the hell's gate on HBK for wanting to ring the bell, the SCM/Pedigree combo nearfall (almost as good as the tombstone last year), HHH's defiance at the end, and the moment UT, with HBK, helps up Triple H, and the three walk to the back together.

I agree that it didn't make the most out of the cell, but they did some stuff at the beginning, and I'm glad that for history's sake, this end of an era match took place inside HIAC. Doing "No Holds Barred" again would have been repetitive, so the name of the HIAC stip alone makes it worthwhile. Fantastic action, story, and finish. Maybe 1/4 not as amazing as the original, but at this point my favorite match of 2012.

****1/2

*Team Teddy vs. Team Johnny*
As far as random mult-man tag matches go at WM, this is probably the best. Everyone got in some good shots, the pace didn't let up, the triple-threat splash outside was great, Santino almost getting the win was a nice nearfall, and this somewhat restore's Miz's luster by getting the big win for the team at WM. A lot of fun, short and sweet. Would have liked a spinarooni, though, unless I missed it.

***

*WWE Title: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho*
I'm of two minds about the random stip change. Ace and Punk had a pre-existing feud, Ace had just won a lot of power and was clearly in the mood to abuse, Jericho was trying to instigate Punk by brining up his family, so trying to get Punk to go nuts worked with both feuds.

Problem is, none of this should have happened. The feud between Jericho and Punk disolved into a very cliched "your family sucks" bs, which made the feud contrived and falsely personal, when it should have really focued on "who's the best"? A great face/heel competition.

So for the match to start with some gimmicky storyline bullshit just killed the first few minutes. Worse, nothing about that came up again towards the end of the match, like it was completely abandoned. You have CM Punk and Chris Jericho, let them fucking wrestle. We already have a storyline match in Rock/Cena, a hardcore match in HHH/UT, let this be the pure wrestling match. They didn't add some gimmick a minute before HBK/Cena, Guerrero/Angle, or Angle/Lesnar. Just let them wrestle. 

Luckily, though, they did abandom the bs, and had a very suspensful exchange of submissions, which luckily had the match ending on a high note. A better second half made up for the first, shame they couldn't just let it be and let them have a whole 20 minutes of you know, wrestling.

***3/4

*The Rock vs. John Cena*
No one match could live up to a year of hype, especially one with a guy who hasn't had a singles match in 9 years and somehow not completely capable of carrying a match for 30 minutes.

The staredown felt quiet, the feeling out process was bland, the match was just very, very conventional. I knew we were in trouble when Cena went for that first bear-hug. It just looked like the two of them needed to lie down. I would have had no problem with this being 10-15 minutes of feeling out, and then another 5-10 minutes of finisher fest. It worked for Cena/Batista, Cena/HHH, and Cena/Orton, so why not here. I think on paper the layout was fine, but there was just some awkward transitions.

Rock should not have been going for 30 minutes, though I do understand WWE's attempt to give fans their money's worth. As far as payoffs go, at least it's better than Sting/Hogan at Starrcade '97, but it's obviously not as good as Punk/Cena MITB.

The fact that it ended just as soon as it started getting good was very TNA for me. If you're going to go for 30 minutes, you need to be changing gears about every 5-10 minutes. This switched maybe once, never left it, and ended. It's not a bad match, but it's not worth 12 MONTHS of hype. 

It's a solid dream match, I'm glad it happened. My biggest bias is against Rock winning. While I understand that Rock still has a wrestling career ahead of him, is only 39, and perhaps Cena will be put over in the rematch, his coming back, getting the better of Cena at WM 27, Survivor Series, and now 28 makes it looks more and more like a celebrity inclusion than an actual competitor.

I get Cena acting cocky costing him, but Rock winning the main event of WM 2012 is just weird form. WM used to be a statement about the future of the company. Look at the main events of III, VI, X, XII, 13, XIV, 16, XIX, 21, 22. Cena not turning heel and now feuding with Lesnar is just a distraction. A great distraction, but a distraction.

I also found it laughably hypocritical that they WERE plugging GI Joe throughout the fucking show. So movie star comes back, gets better of top guy on two occassions, pins him in main event of WM (his second match in eight years), they plug his movie, and he disappears.

Say what you will about Hogan, and I know he was a lot older at this point in his career, but when he came back in 2002, he put over Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Angle, and Lesnar, and they ALL looked better for it.

This hasn't elevated Cena. It hasn't hurt him, but it hasn't help

Ranting aside, a solid match burdended only by its length of hype.

***1/4


Hard to tell where this ranks with WMs. My most recent favorite remains XXIV, the last great WM. I think the problem with this show was that there was nothing in between. It was all main events and bullshit. If you weren't Rock/Cena or UT/HHH, you were Big Show/Rhodes and DB/Sheamus. I like a deep card at WM, like 26, 22, etc.

The whole show I'd give a *** (out of 5)


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Why are people hating on the Brock return? The IWC was terrible when I joined in '07, I don't even go near the RAW section anymore as 90% of people in there are clueless.

At least most people in here are talking sense.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

How would everyone feel about a 'Best Technical wrestlers' dvd? I would be all for it provided it was made well and the matches were great.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> How would everyone feel about a 'Best Technical wrestlers' dvd? I would be all for it provided it was made well and the matches were great.


Awesome idea! Bad thing is no Benoit matches which would make the DVD quality not as good. I'd still buy it though if there was lots of Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Angle, Backlund, DiBiase, Shamrock, Eddie Guerrero, Arn Anderson, Flair, Jake Roberts, maybe some Dean Malenko, some fucking Savage, HBK, etc. Yeah make this DVD please.

BUT FIRST.....we need a best of In Your House for the love of God!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Word said:


> Why are people hating on the Brock return? The IWC was terrible when I joined in '07, I don't even go near the RAW section anymore as 90% of people in there are clueless.
> 
> At least most people in here are talking sense.


It's horrible. (N)

As for Punk/Henry last night, I'd give it ***3/4 on initial viewing.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

who the hell can hate on Lesnar?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

redeadening said:


> who the hell can hate on Lesnar?


GEEKS, that's who.


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

I don't hate Lesnar but I am concerned with his return people forget the performance he put on Wrestlemania 20 the match was atrocious and considering the push he received and the money one would think he would have put in a little more effort I just hope he doesn't do it again


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sorry to ask this again but does anybody know if the Bret Hart/Austin/Taker/Vader match from In Your House 13 and the main event from Survivor Series 2001 are on comps anywhere? Two of my fav matches and I dont want to buy those PPVs just for those matches. The IYH is about $30 used on VHS on amazon and you can get 2001 Survivor Series for about $30 used. Now I love 2001 Survivor Series but mostly because of that main event. Again sorry for the repeat question but I know there are some on here who know more about wrestling DVDs and have more comps than me. 

Ok as you were.........


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> who the hell can hate on Lesnar?


Anyone with a decent memory who cares about more than a month of WWE's future.

Add his return to "Lord Tensai", & WWE is planning its future based largely on some of the worst of its past.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

My house gets a free PPV a month and I had nothing of any importance to do so I caved in and watched Mania. Warning: May sound like an anhedonic prick.

Bryan v Sheamus: I have nothing to say on this other than I agree with everyone else's thoughts (those who thought it was stupid and sucky, anyway). 

Orton v Kane felt like a decent SmackDown main event. I'm not sure Randy's the guy to go for really great matches anymore but he's becoming more of a reliable go-to guy for good matches with just about anyone.

Rhodes v Show was pretty bad and Cody's reaching Miz levels of embarrassing. Awful smiling-to-serious faces and just a terrible actor. I was warming up to him starting last year's Mania when he was the demented video game character but since he took the mask off he's just been such a boring piece of nothing. Go away.

I'm not talking about any of the non-wrestling segments. Just garbage. How Edge was made to look like a bigger deal than the Four Horsemen during the HOF thing made me die a little inside.

Women tag: People were still chanting "Daniel Bryan" and "yes." People like Maria Manokukupopolis can't possibly feel good about appearing on this show and taking time away from those who've worked years for it, can they? 

I.....didn't like Trip v Taker very much. Really didn't need 30 minutes, or any of the emotional stuff. Well, I guess it DID need emotional stuff, but I didn't need to like it. Shawn was awful. Looked like a frightened Southern bell, and a lot for what HHH did was odd too. He backed off at one point where Taker just looked at him or something, IDK. I'll happily call this a "good" match because the first fifteen or so minutes were nice brawl moments with some possible-suspense build and good spots (holy sheeeeet @ the spinebuster on the steps. Surprised Taker wasn't a veggie after that), but this felt cheesy and corny and there's no way I could buy it. I noticed some play-off things from last year, but I thought they missed some opportunities to do more; Hunter being in hell's gate and actually whopping Taker with the hammer would have been awesome. Overall, yeah, didn't really like this. Hunter's entrance thing was silly-looking. Cell was useless. Michaels sucked. I expect people to like this match, but I'm surprised anyone thinks Michaels did a good job here; he really, really sucked. And I like the guy a hell of a lot.

(awaits red reps)

Raw v SmackDown was laughable and I literally mean I laughed at how bad it was. I would re0watch this to see Mark Henry throw Hornswoggle and chuckle at the crop of jobbers they filled this match with. Raw's team captain didn't even get tagged in. I'd probably put this below Bryan v Sheamus.

Jericho v Punk wasn't four star+ to me, but it was really good and heads and shoulders above anything else on the show. IDK if I loved the DQ stuff but Jericho getting inside Punk's head and even begging to be hit with the chair was cool. Punk took some bumps in this, MAN. The outside suplex was pretty batty and then his head slings back when pulled from the top rope. I didn't notice how long Chris worked the back for but it didn't look terribly long at all so Punk not favouring it didn't stick with me. Final exchanges were some of the best possible counter-counter-counter wrestling you'd find and even if I want Punk v Henry I'll anticipate any crop of matches these two have.

Rock v Cena was good and I'd definitely call it #2 of the night. I was on the toilet for Cena's entrance, but Rock's but embarrassing. I'd be ashamed to walk out to the ring with that shit on- it looked like they were giving him a giant send-off because he was being killed immediately after the match. Like the Cell, I didn't think this match needed 30 minutes either. Rock v Hogan was half as long and felt way more "epic," and was just better in general (are people comparing the two yet?). The 30 minutes of this went by relatively quick, though so I'm not going to put forth complaints about this. Except the way they work holds. Bearhug looked shitty, headlock looked shitty, sharpshooter looked uber-shitty, and I wasn't digging the STF. Make no bones about it- this was good and my expectations weren't high so I wasn't at all disappointed. They busted out practically whatever they should have and Cena using the People's Elbow being his downfall was a great finish to run with.

Relatively bad show, but I don't regret watching it like last year so I guess that's something.




Hohenheim of Light said:


> I haven't watched Henry vs. Punk but the thought of it being better than Taker/Trips is laughable.


Um........why?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*KoK's Wrestlemania Main Event Rankings*

The "BAD" Tier

28. WM XI: Bam Bam Bigelow vs Lawrence Taylor: ****

27. WM VIII: Hulk Hogan vs Sid Justice: ****

26. WM XXVII: The Miz vs John Cena: ****

The "historical significance > match quality" tier

25. WM III: Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant: *** 1/4*

24. WM I: Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs Paul Orndorff/Roddy Piper: *** 1/4*

The "Meh-to-decent" tier

23. WM XIII: Psycho Sid vs Undertaker: *** 1/4*

22. WM X: Yokozuna vs Bret Hart: *** 1/2*

21. WM IX: Yokozuna vs Bret Hart: *** 1/2*

20. WM II: Hulk Hogan vs King Kong Bundy: *** 3/4*

The "Great, but not Wrestlemania main event quality" tier

19. WM IV: "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Ted Dibiase: *****

18. WM XXI: Triple H vs Batista: *****

17. WM VII: Sgt. Slaughter vs Hulk Hogan: **** 1/4*

16. WM XII: Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels: **** 1/4*

15. WM XXV: Triple H vs Randy Orton: **** 1/2*

14. WM XVIII: Chris Jericho vs Triple H: **** 3/4*

The "Main-Event Worthy" tier

13. WM XIV: Shawn Michaels vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin: ****3/4*

12. WM XV: The Rock vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin: ******

11. WM XVI: Triple H vs Mick Foley vs The Big Show vs The Rock: ******

10. WM XXVIII: John Cena vs The Rock: ******

9. WM XXII: John Cena vs Triple H: ******

8. WM VI: Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior: ***** 1/4*

7. WM XXIII: John Cena vs Shawn Michaels: ***** 1/4*

The "All-Time classic" tier

6. WM V: Hulk Hogan vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage: ***** 1/4*

5. WM XIX: Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar: ***** 1/4*

4. WM XXIV: Edge vs The Undertaker: ***** 1/2*

3. WM XVII: The Rock vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin: ***** 3/4*

The "Greatest Match Of All Time Contenders" Tier

2. WM XX: Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit: *******

1. WM XXVI: Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker: *******


There is my final list. The matches I'm expecting most of you to disagree with me on are the WM 2000 and WM 25 main events, perhaps even placing HHH vs Batista over Savage-Dibiase. At the end of the day, it's really just my opinion, you can make a list with BAM BAM/L.T number one as long as it's how you truly feel. Also, due to the atmosphere of these big-time matches, I found it hard to give any of these less than ** (maybe it's just me).

Here are a few interesting tidbits that I took from the list:

Most Overrated: WM 12 Ironman
Most Underrated: WM 2000 (yes I know it's overbooked to shit)
Best WM main event performer: Shawn Michaels(3 appearances in top 7)
Worst WM main event performer: SID (only counting multiple appearances)
Best ending: WM XXVI
Worst ending: WM XXVII (seriously, WTF)


Hope everybody enjoyed the list, anybody have any new suggestions for another one ? I still have lots more to contribute to this topic as well. Interested in others' rankings.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Because I'm not a "TV MATCHES RULE. PPV SUCKS" guy. In fact, I'm probably the exact opposite. The grander the stage, the better the potential of the match (I say potential specifically b/c if they bomb, they'll bomb VERY BADLY e.g. Hulk/Sting).

Edit: Plus, I'm kinda beyond the point of caring about ring-work anymore. Storyline > Workrate.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

By storyline, I'm assuming you mean the story told in the ring?

Personally, storytelling is the biggest aspect of a wrestling match for me. It's not about the work-rate, but the story told in the ring. If two wrestlers can't tell a convincing story and can't give me a reason to care why they want what they want and why they are wrestling one another; chances are, I won't be bothered. I used to adore technical classics, but suddenly, I've started to adore high-impact matches and brawls much more.

For me a match like Diesel/Bret from Rumble '95 would be much more interesting than most WWE matches. Seeing Bret beat the shit out of Nash's leg and do whatever the fuck to win the title--as it would be in real life--is much more intriguing that two wrestlers grappling each other.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> 15. WM XXV: Triple H vs Randy Orton: **** 1/2*


:kobe


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Razor King said:


> By storyline, I'm assuming you mean the story told in the ring?
> 
> Personally, storytelling is the biggest aspect of a wrestling match for me. It's not about the work-rate, but the story told in the ring. If two wrestlers can't tell a convincing story and can't give me a reason to care why they want what they want and why they are wrestling one another; chances are, I won't be bothered. I used to adore technical classics, but suddenly, I've started to adore high-impact matches and brawls much more.


Yes, but having a good build-up or a center to the story that the wrestlers are going to tell always helps.

I'm sure Henry and Punk could tell a wonderful story together. That's not what I'm basing that comment on. They just don't have enough background to tell as good a story in the ring as Triple H and Undertaker (and especially Shawn Michaels) did at WrestleMania. I'll definitely watch the match and I'm prepared to eat my words if I'm wrong.

This is also the reason I was ecstatic when Jericho asked Punk, "How's your father?" That's the shade of villainy that the match needed. I enjoyed the wrestling exchange towards the finish and the stiffing throughout, but the storyline added a much needed separate dimension to the match.

And as for all the people who are saying that the Hell in a Cell wasn't needed for the match. I think you're ABSOLUTELY WRONG. The history between the two guys and the cell is one thing. Second, the match was not about brutality. The Cell was the setting for this story. It would not have had the same impact without the Cell. It also was instrumental to my favourite spot in the match. Undertaker disarming Triple H of the sledgehammer and tossing it violently into the Cell. What if there was no barrier? Dead audience member? YAY.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Yes, but having a good build-up or a center to the story that the wrestlers are going to tell always helps.
> 
> I'm sure Henry and Punk could tell a wonderful story together. That's not what I'm basing that comment on. They just don't have enough background to tell as good a story in the ring as Triple H and Undertaker (and especially Shawn Michaels) did at WrestleMania. I'll definitely watch the match and I'm prepared to eat my words if I'm wrong.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I agree. The backdrop of the match and the history leading to the match provides so much intrigue. It adds another dimension; one could suppose, it ignites a match that could/would have been an ordinary affair. Triple H and the Undertaker have so much history together. I don't mean this in the sense that these guys hate each other or have any other relationship. Their journey from the New Generation Era and right until Shawn's retirement, which was a result of his obsession over the Streak; for Triple H and the Undertaker, it was romantic journey set in their own paths and when they finally did it at WrestleMania 27, it was immense. This time, inside the Cell, it was very special, very different, and in a sense--the grand finale of both careers. WrestleMania X-Seven was built out of animosity, whilst the last two matches were built upon the legacies of both men. Both men won't have to neccesarily retire, but this match will forever remain the "final moment" of both careers. Undoubtedly, it's the biggest match of both careers.

The entire build-up didn't need anything because there wasn't anything either could do. This was something developed by the wrestling destinies of both men and it was only appropriate that these two Legends finished it off inside the Hell in a Cell at WrestleMania. There are some truly dream matches; at WrestleMania 28, we witnessed a dream match that had so much history and was so rich in emotional fortune. Comparing that match to any other match is gross injustice because you have wrestling matches everyday, but few, very few wrestling stories that you would look back many years from now and have a nostalgic smile because it indeed signified something very special.


On a different note and in general, there have been two trilogies at WrestleMania: Rock/Austin and Undertaker/Hunter. How would you rate each match and which one do you prefer?

My ratings for the two trilogies:

*Rock/Austin ~ ***, *****, **** 1/2
Undertaker/Hunter ~ *** 1/2, *****, **** 3/4*

As a fan of Undertaker and Triple H, I prefer this one to Rock/Austin, but I absolutely adore their matches at X-Seven and XIX.

Somehow, I just realized that Rock has headlined all three WrestleManias with Undertaker vs. Triple H.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Because I'm not a "TV MATCHES RULE. PPV SUCKS" guy. In fact, I'm probably the exact opposite. *The grander the stage, the better the potential of the match* (I say potential specifically b/c if they bomb, they'll bomb VERY BADLY e.g. Hulk/Sting).
> 
> Edit: Plus, I'm kinda beyond the point of caring about ring-work anymore. Storyline > Workrate.


I don't think anyone is a "TV MATCHES RULE. PPV SUCKS" guy. I prefer MIGHT a tv match because I like a simpler story, I guess, but post-85 (first WWF PPV), WWE hasn't put on a tv match that's as good as the tenth best PPV match (approx). Bolded part makes no sense to me. If two guys get a match on SmackDown for 20 minutes and get a match at WrestleMania for 20 minutes, I don't see why one has potential to be better than the other. Even if one is built well and the other is built like shit.

Caring about "ring-work" = move-for-move holds? I agree to some extent; 'workrate' matches like what you'll find a guy like Dean Malenko doing aren't my thing, but I don't see how you'd get the impression Punk v Henry is more about 'workrate' than about A Tired Exhausted CM Punk Coming Off of WrestleMania Having to Fend Off ENORMOUS FAT MAN Mark Henry. In capital letters and everything. I watched the match twice and it told a far better story (albeit a small one) than most if not all of Mania, and I think it was better than anything on the card (MAYBE not Punk/Jericho. Just MAYBE). Punk was exhausted and rib-hurt for the whole thing. Henry attacks mid-section multiple times and yells at Punk (seriously that was fucking awesome- I OWN YOU. DID I TELL YOU TO MOVE? GET'CHO HAND OFF MAH FACE). Punk tried a million times to get more and more offense in but Henry cut him off each time and sold exhaustion more down the line. Finish didn't sit too well with me, but the story, even insignificant in the grand scheme of both guys (or maybe not WHO KNOWS WWE UNPREDICTABLE~~~, was terrific.

I'm long past the point where I watch wrestling for move-for-move holds. I think most are past that point after not long which is why there's so much "All Japan 90s is the greatest thing ever" talk. Watching the Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue stuff of 96 chronologically recently was an absolute thing of beauty, because the December tag made everything come full circle and in general, was just pulled off so well. I didn't think Hunter v Taker was.



Razor King said:


> Personally, storytelling is the biggest aspect of a wrestling match for me. It's not about the work-rate, but the story told in the ring. If two wrestlers can't tell a convincing story and can't give me a reason to care why they want what they want and why they are wrestling one another; chances are, I won't be bothered. I used to adore technical classics, but suddenly, I've started to adore high-impact matches and brawls much more.





Hohenheim of Light said:


> Yes, but having a good build-up or a center to the story that the wrestlers are going to tell always helps.


That's almost exactly why I didn't love (or almost *like* at all, really) Trip v Taker. I didn't buy practically any of it because I didn't think it was pulled off well. The story WAS good- HHH goes against Taker again at Mania inside the Cell, and Michaels (who lost to Taker twice in a row at the show) is referee. But it was so carny and cheesy that I didn't....give a rat's ass. I'd hate to harp on this, but Michaels blew, and no matter how good the story is, if a wrestler (or referee ex-wrestler IDK) is sucking then I don't care about it. It felt like a well built feud with a bad pay-off, and essentially that's what I thought it was. I don't want wrestlers to look like robots programmed to do a set of moves. That's an automatic piece of shit. But a match with a story isn't an automatic not-piece of shit. What? That made some sense, somewhere. I don't think Trip v Taker was a piece of shit btw, but there were too many negatives and Punk/Henry (outside the finish) was basically perfectly worked for a 12 minute Raw match.

My favourite match ever is Rey/Eddie 6/23/05. 90% of the reason behind that is beccause of how much of a dick Guerrero plays. The "action" is good action, but I get the feeling from that match that:

a) Rey isn't doing the moves for "wrestling," he's doing them for revenge. Targets bruise, etc.
b) Eddie dicks Rey around and cheapshots him becasue he wants to torment Rey more.
c) Rey beating Eddie is another loss for Eddie and that kills him.
d) Eddie needs to beat Rey- hasn't done so since they started the feud (the feud of 05, anyway).

I even look into the "deeper" parts of the match that almost certainly mean jack shit. I remember Rey using a boot. A BOOT, FFS. I don't remember Rey ever using a boot anywhere else and that spoke to me as "need to pull EVERYTHING out, motherfucker."

When I watch Dean Malenko do....almost anything. Let's say- pull a guy's head up after going for the cover after a hard-fought finish run, I think:

a) He's a fucking idiot.
b) I don't give a shit about the match anymore.
c) He's a fucking idiot.

So yeah, I prefer a story over a workrate, but I guess I can find a story in almost anything I like.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I'm sure Henry and Punk could tell a wonderful story together. That's not what I'm basing that comment on. They just don't have enough background to tell as good a story in the ring as Triple H and Undertaker (and especially Shawn Michaels) did at WrestleMania. I'll definitely watch the match and I'm prepared to eat my words if I'm wrong.


You could hate Punk/Henry and I would fly to where you live and take a tomahawk to your face not care at all. I'm not bothered if someone thinks H/Taker is a trillion times better than Punk/Henry, but it's odd to me that someone would say it's laughable to say the opposite, esp. before watching it. I don't get how a tv match (or any match without a long feud) just CAN'T be match of the year by some people's standards. 




Hohenheim of Light said:


> This is also the reason I was ecstatic when Jericho asked Punk, "How's your father?" That's the shade of villainy that the match needed. I enjoyed the wrestling exchange towards the finish and the stiffing throughout, but the storyline added a much needed separate dimension to the match.


I agree with that totally; Jericho and Punk going counter for counter straight away while ignoring any previous story would have sucked fucking arse. If a guy talks about my mother, father, sister, friends, or KAIENTAI in any negative way I'd want to shoot them and not outwrestle them. I adore some matches that are pretty much based purely on story (e.g. Rey/Eddie GAB), I just don't think a match with a long background is autmotacially better than a random tv match because of the fact it has a story, and it's weird to me that someone would assume so. 



Hohenheim of Light said:


> And as for all the people who are saying that the Hell in a Cell wasn't needed for the match. I think you're ABSOLUTELY WRONG. The history between the two guys and the cell is one thing. Second, the match was not about brutality. The Cell was the setting for this story. It would not have had the same impact without the Cell. It also was instrumental to my favourite spot in the match. Undertaker disarming Triple H of the sledgehammer and tossing it violently into the Cell. What if there was no barrier? Dead audience member? YAY.


I loved the idea of the cell when they announced it, it's the fact it wasn't used almost at all that sort of irked me. I'm trying to think to myself what else I'd want to happen with it, and I'm coming up short. Wouldn't have wanted a giant spot. Wouldn't have wanted a twenty minute head-into-cage-fest. Wouldn't have wanted them to go outside the cell. So IDK.


I didn;t type that in the order of which it posted. There's probably fucks up there and I'm not reading over it.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Sorry to ask this again but does anybody know if the Bret Hart/Austin/Taker/Vader match from In Your House 13 and the main event from Survivor Series 2001 are on comps anywhere? Two of my fav matches and I dont want to buy those PPVs just for those matches. The IYH is about $30 used on VHS on amazon and you can get 2001 Survivor Series for about $30 used. Now I love 2001 Survivor Series but mostly because of that main event. Again sorry for the repeat question but I know there are some on here who know more about wrestling DVDs and have more comps than me.
> 
> Ok as you were.........


http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/results.htm

According to the site above, neither match were released on any other DVDs or VHS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't you just import the Tagged Classic shows from Amazon.co.uk? I can get DVD's from Amazon.com just fine, so I guess the opposite should be just as easy?

Gave Henry/Punk another watch last night because... well I was bored and all my mates stood me up on pub night so I had nothing better to do like hang out with my friends and get drunk. Cunts. Anyway. Was still really good, and better than anything at WM aside from Punk/Jericho and Undertaker/HHH. Henry looked awesome in it. My god the guy needs to get back into the title scene and go on another murderous rampage. Maybe on Raw this time. The shot to Punk where he held Punk's leg from a kick attempt and then just BLASTED him in the face was awesome. YES! YES! YES! chants for Punk as he started kicking the big man down was great too. I wish the crowds were always like this. I'd probably throw ***3/4 stars at it, which probably makes it the third best MOTY for me (I've been limited to just WWE stuff and the occasional TNA match).


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

So I just typed up a long response to Yeah1993 and the computer erased it. So I'm just gonna say:

Yeah1993.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Fuck me that pop from Lesnar was huge. Just saw Lord Tackamichinoku return and I'm certainly going to hate him. I like tattoos, especially a nice sleeve like Orton, but what the hell are his?

I think I'll watch some wrestling today for the first time in around 8 months starting with Punk/Jericho. I'm gonna love that shit.

EDIT: I like Cena, but he's doing my nut in latelty. Why does he insist on no selling?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> So I just typed up a long response to Yeah1993 and the computer erased it. So I'm just gonna say:
> 
> Yeah1993.


SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE.

But yeah I've had that happen when WF would log me out. Been using the automatic log in tick box mainly so that wouldn't happen (+ typing name & password every time is shitty and annoying)


----------



## Rickeey (Jan 5, 2011)

WWE's been producing some good shit this year TV-wise. 

*Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show – Smackdown 01/07/12*
Mark Henry's on commentary and he's the greatest. The match itself is a real game of cat and mouse for the mediocre amount of time it gets and Bryan stooges around for Show like a real champ. I love how Bryan can pull off being a right derp and yet still retain his usual aura. The whole match really highlights Show's power too, especially that choke/headbutt spot. I seriously love Bryan's character to bits, it’s hard not to with the ‘YES! YES! YES!’ shtick. Easily the best part of the match is Henry shoving the shit out of Bryan. ‘GET OUTTA MA DAMN FACE, I BEAT YO FACE OFF BOY’

*Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show – Smackdown 01/13/12*
Things start with an ignored attempt at a handshake because Show’s mad and shit. He’s like an angry grizzly bear before the commercial break. However after the commercial, Bryan starts hunting down Show with a chair and hits like a gazillion chair shots, creating a real nice thorn-in-side scenario. Show's a beast, he sells the chair shots well, but retains his beastly qualities. The finish worked well, but could've been much better with an improved crowd. But that doesn't really detract from the match in the overall grand scheme of things. I should mention that Bryan’s great going up the ramp; ‘YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE SO RECKLESS’, ‘YOU ARE A BASTARD’.

*Daniel Bryan vs. Mark Henry – Smackdown 01/20/12*
It pains me to say I wasn’t the biggest fan of this considering who's involved.. It’s a lumberjack match, a stipulation that I’ve never been terribly fond of. Bryan’s mannerisms are great as usual and Henry is beastly, but sadly things break down into everyone brawling just as the match starts to get good which is a shame because the action was building nicely. Bryan was bumping like crazy and eventually taking Henry off his feet was treated like a big deal. Good development if anything.

*Mark Henry vs. CM Punk - RAW 04/02/12*
I think this was obviously aided by the burning hot crowd, but was still fantastic stuff at the same. Punk's selling of the back right away was a pleasant touch, he didn't let up either which was even better. Henry's a great bully character and can actually keep my attention better than most. There aren't many that can trash-talk like Henry. The elbow did feel big, I appreciated Punk still selling that back after it. The finish didn't tickle in the slightest. I'd love to see a program between these two down the line.

*Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston - Superstars 03/06/12*
This is being sold as the 200th match between these two, and I'd well believe it. Apparently they're 99-99, which would make this the 199th match, no? Anyway, that's neither here nor there. This is certainly one of the better Superstars matches in recent memories. Ziggler pretty much carries all of this, but Kofi contributes something every once in a while too. Dolph is actually so much fun to watch these days, he executed the prettiest fireman's carry I've seen in a long long time and he seems to be developing a trend for being the crazy sell guy too. He does it here off the monkey flip, just landing FLAT on his face. I don't recall any major Kofi botches which is always a plus. Vickie was at ringside but she was kind of a non-factor here. Both guys seemed a tad knackered towards the end, but even still, it's 15 mins of cartoonish fun. I wasn't feeling the result but that's just my own bias really.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ehh, let's try again.



Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think anyone is a "TV MATCHES RULE. PPV SUCKS" guy. I prefer MIGHT a tv match because I like a simpler story, I guess, but post-85 (first WWF PPV), WWE hasn't put on a tv match that's as good as the tenth best PPV match (approx). Bolded part makes no sense to me. *If two guys get a match on SmackDown for 20 minutes and get a match at WrestleMania for 20 minutes, I don't see why one has potential to be better than the other.* Even if one is built well and the other is built like shit.


I'm pretty sure you've said you prefer TV matches before.

The WrestleMania match has the potential to be better than the Smackdown match because of a certain characteristic called 'spectacle'. It adds to the match just as atmosphere does. Also, I shouldn't even need to address the build-up issue. Obviously people will be much more invested in a very well built match than _one based on a handshake_.



> Caring about "ring-work" = move-for-move holds? I agree to some extent; 'workrate' matches like what you'll find a guy like Dean Malenko doing aren't my thing, but I don't see how you'd get the impression Punk v Henry is more about 'workrate' than about A Tired Exhausted CM Punk Coming Off of WrestleMania Having to Fend Off ENORMOUS FAT MAN Mark Henry. In capital letters and everything. I watched the match twice and it told a far better story (albeit a small one) than most if not all of Mania, and I think it was better than anything on the card (MAYBE not Punk/Jericho. Just MAYBE). Punk was exhausted and rib-hurt for the whole thing. Henry attacks mid-section multiple times and yells at Punk (seriously that was fucking awesome- I OWN YOU. DID I TELL YOU TO MOVE? GET'CHO HAND OFF MAH FACE). Punk tried a million times to get more and more offense in but Henry cut him off each time and sold exhaustion more down the line. Finish didn't sit too well with me, but the story, even insignificant in the grand scheme of both guys (or maybe not WHO KNOWS WWE UNPREDICTABLE~~~, was terrific.


Oh no, I'm pretty sure Henry and Punk will be awesome. Henry is a BOSS and Punk can be great when he doesn't have to be the primary focus (well, he doesn't have the ability to carry). It might have a very good story, but I just can't see how it's comparable to the Hell in a Cell.



> I'm long past the point where I watch wrestling for move-for-move holds. I think most are past that point after not long which is why there's so much "All Japan 90s is the greatest thing ever" talk. Watching the Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue stuff of 96 chronologically recently was an absolute thing of beauty, because the December tag made everything come full circle and in general, was just pulled off so well. I didn't think Hunter v Taker was.


The story doesn't always have to come full-circle (although imo they did do a good deal with finishing loose threads left in the past as well as callbacks from previous parts of the story).



> That's almost exactly why I didn't love (or almost *like* at all, really) Trip v Taker. I didn't buy practically any of it because I didn't think it was pulled off well. The story WAS good- HHH goes against Taker again at Mania inside the Cell, and Michaels (who lost to Taker twice in a row at the show) is referee. But it was so carny and cheesy that I didn't....give a rat's ass. I'd hate to harp on this, but Michaels blew, and no matter how good the story is, if a wrestler (or referee ex-wrestler IDK) is sucking then I don't care about it. It felt like a well built feud with a bad pay-off, and essentially that's what I thought it was. I don't want wrestlers to look like robots programmed to do a set of moves. That's an automatic piece of shit. But a match with a story isn't an automatic not-piece of shit. What? That made some sense, somewhere. I don't think Trip v Taker was a piece of shit btw, but there were too many negatives and Punk/Henry (outside the finish) was basically perfectly worked for a 12 minute Raw match.


Disagree a lot here. Michaels sold the match incredibly well with his conflicted ideals. He tried to remain as biased as possible until the competitors' prompts. I'm not going to talk about the story altogether b/c I've only seen the match once and I was most in a giddy state and not at all analytical. Fairly certain it will hold up when I rewatch tho.

An additional point. It's easy to work a simple match perfectly as it is easy to tell a simple story without much trouble. But that's not the zenith of storytelling. You're relaying something simple through simple means. It might evoke pleasure but it's not the same as relaying something truly grand in a complicated way. I'd imagine the catharsis for the latter would be of much higher significance than that of the former.



> You could hate Punk/Henry and I would fly to where you live and take a tomahawk to your face not care at all. I'm not bothered if someone thinks H/Taker is a trillion times better than Punk/Henry, but it's odd to me that someone would say it's laughable to say the opposite, esp. before watching it. I don't get how a tv match (or any match without a long feud) just CAN'T be match of the year by some people's standards.


I never said a TV match _can't_ be match of the year. I just said this particular TV match won't be better than the Hell in a Cell. A TV match somewhere down the line might better the HIAC this year but I can't possibly see this being it.



> I agree with that totally; Jericho and Punk going counter for counter straight away while ignoring any previous story would have sucked fucking arse. If a guy talks about my mother, father, sister, friends, or KAIENTAI in any negative way I'd want to shoot them and not outwrestle them. I adore some matches that are pretty much based purely on story (e.g. Rey/Eddie GAB), I just don't think a match with a long background is autmotacially better than a random tv match because of the fact it has a story, and it's weird to me that someone would assume so.


How is that weird, in any way... like at all? A random TV match generates little interest from me. Ziggler vs. Danielson on RAW from the year before last is a good example. It was a wonderful exhibition but I didn't really care at all.

Story is a pivotal part of the match, so a match having better ground to build a story on will obviously have a significant advantage over a "random TV match".


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Can't you just import the Tagged Classic shows from Amazon.co.uk? I can get DVD's from Amazon.com just fine, so I guess the opposite should be just as easy?


How do you mean import? Like rip online or buy on ebay? I can fine most tagged classics on ebay but I hear I can't play them on my DVD player. I have a Playstation 2 which I have been told plays ALL DVDs but I'm not the best with things like this. Any advise would be awesome.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I enjoyed the HIAC more after watching it again today, but by god Michaels was horrendous throughout it all. Since he initially came back in 2002 he's been a HORRIBLE actor and he got worse as the years went by. He was so cheesy on Sunday and made it completely unbelievable. If you think that was good acting then I don't know what to say. 

Apart from that, the match was great. The sweet chin music into the pedigree made me almost wet my pants. I thought it was all over.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I mean order them from Amazon.co.uk and have them delivered to your address. You can play them on your PC using a small program like, DVD43 that runs in the background and removes the region code when you put a disc in.

Also, get a region free DVD player. Hell, yours might be one, but you just need to input a special code to unlock it (google the model of your DVD player and see if there are any region free codes) .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I mean order them from Amazon.co.uk and have them delivered to your address. You can play them on your PC using a small program like, DVD43 that runs in the background and removes the region code when you put a disc in.
> 
> Also, get a region free DVD player. Hell, yours might be one, but you just need to input a special code to unlock it (google the model of your DVD player and see if there are any region free codes) .


Huh...never thought of using the uk amazon. If I have an amazon account in the states I assume it's the same thing right? 

Also I found a region free DVD player for $20 online so I will grab that. Been meaning to grab that one anyway.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You have to create a new account for Amazon.co.uk, but that's all. I've ordered a bunch of stuff from Amazon.com over the years and had no problems or anything.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I'm pretty sure you've said you prefer TV matches before.


I wasn't trying to deny that, really, just the thought that "PPV SUCKS." I don't have some bizarre bias towards tv matches and my liking for them is almost purely because I've been way more disappointed with WWE PPV matches of the past decade while there's literally hundreds of good matches. Talk to me about WCW and I'll tell you I enjoy PPV more because the tv matches didn't get tons of time to work with (most of the time).



Hohenheim of Light said:


> The WrestleMania match has the potential to be better than the Smackdown match because of a certain characteristic called 'spectacle'. It adds to the match just as atmosphere does. Also, I shouldn't even need to address the build-up issue. *Obviously people will be much more invested in a very well built match than one based on a handshake*.


There's pretty much no point on comment on the non-bolded part since we'd be talking back and forth on some loop. You like spectacle, I don't really care for it. But the bolded part I'm going to nudge (even though you said you weren't going to address it 8*D)- a bunch of people can care for a match with good build up, but the match itself doesn't become magically good based on that alone.




Hohenheim of Light said:


> The story doesn't always have to come full-circle (although imo they did do a good deal with finishing loose threads left in the past as well as callbacks from previous parts of the story).


Won't dispute any of this.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Disagree a lot here. Michaels sold the match incredibly well with his conflicted ideals. He tried to remain as biased as possible until the competitors' prompts. I'm not going to talk about the story altogether b/c I've only seen the match once and I was most in a giddy state and not at all analytical. Fairly certain it will hold up when I rewatch tho.


I didn't dislike the idea of Michaels trying to "choose sides" or w/e he was doing, it was just the acting of it that looked...stupid. Again, this is another "you like it, I don't" thing that we would probably just go needelessly back and forth with, but would have no reason to. I just found Michaels' hand-in-face and worried looks pretty pathetic, and the "you end it, then" stuff came off as totally cheesy. On paper it sounds really good to me. 

IDK about analytical. If I have to sit down and think deeply about a wrestling match and its key points I won't enjoy myself. I don't think about any of this, I just notice it while it's going.

Next paragraph's going to be broken up into bitz:



Hohenheim of Light said:


> An additional point. It's easy to work a simple match perfectly as it is easy to tell a simple story without much trouble.
> But that's not the zenith of storytelling. You're relaying something simple through simple means.


So...you're saying that's good or bad? I might be reading this wrong, but it sounds like "Punk v Henry had an easier story to tell so I'll cut the other match some slack because of the multiple layers" or something. I'm probably totally way off and that's not the right way to word it, but that's the impression I'm getting.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> It might evoke pleasure but it's not the same as relaying something truly grand in a complicated way.


I'd rather something simple be pulled off extremely well than something complicated be pulled off poorly. If I watched both matches again I'd have STACKS more negatives for Mania and there's stuff in that match that I had a hard time wrapping my head around in the first place. I'll cop to not getting it if it's explained in a way I agree with, but something like Michaels wanting to stop the match and then flipping out like a wuss when he counted down Trip after the first Tombstone confused me.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I'd imagine the catharsis for the latter would be of much higher significance than that of the former.


I still don't think that means it's better. It *could*, but not purely from that.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I never said a TV match _can't_ be match of the year. I just said this particular TV match won't be better than the Hell in a Cell. A TV match somewhere down the line might better the HIAC this year but I can't possibly see this being it.


Purely/mainly because of the lack of (deeper) story?



Hohenheim of Light said:


> How is that weird, in any way... like at all? A random TV match generates little interest from me. Ziggler vs. Danielson on RAW from the year before last is a good example. It was a wonderful exhibition but I didn't really care at all.
> 
> Story is a pivotal part of the match, so a match having better ground to build a story on will obviously have a significant advantage over a "random TV match".


It was weird to me for a few reasons. You hadn't seen the match and completely assumed it would be laughable to think it was better than the Cell. I wouldn't have said anything if it was more "I'd be shocked if I thought that was better than Taker/Trip" (Not that I'm trying to "call you out" in the first place or anything), but "bigger story = better match"

I'd be surprised if any regular poster in this thread other than Steffan and I thought Punk/Henry was better than the Cell, but I don't think it's laughable to think otherwise. And thinking that Punk/Henry was better the Cell didn't look like something to call "laughable" because it doesn't have a big build or previous ground. At the end of the day, I sure as hell want story in a match, no matter how tiny or short-lasting it is, but if a match has MORE story and is more significant b/c of "the streak" "end of an era" and eveything in between, I still can't see why it's pretty much instantly better. They have more ground to work with, yeah, but it's sounding like you're saying the worst match with a lot of story is better than the best match with little match, in a way.

I'm tired and I probably got this confused with a facbeook status so I apologise if I made any spelling/grammar mistakes or references to massaging a Japanese woman here. Not reading over this either. 

-KAI EN TAI


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> You have to create a new account for Amazon.co.uk, but that's all. I've ordered a bunch of stuff from Amazon.com over the years and had no problems or anything.


Last question (maybe haha)....how long would shipping take do you think? I have never ordered anything from UK. I ordered something from Canada once and it took liker a month. I assume from UK maybe 7-10 bus days? How long does it take to get you things from the states?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anywhere between 7 and 14 days usually, but I've had stuff take a month before .


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

TJChurch said:


> Anyone with a decent memory who cares about more than a month of WWE's future.
> 
> Add his return to "Lord Tensai", & WWE is planning its future based largely on some of the worst of its past.


I swear, do you ever say anything positive? All you ever do is complain about every single thing.


Anyways, Punk/Henry was a pretty good tv match. I thought it would suck, but it surprised the hell out of me.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Game1778 said:


> I don't hate Lesnar but I am concerned with his return people forget the performance he put on Wrestlemania 20 the match was atrocious and considering the push he received and the money one would think he would have put in a little more effort I just hope he doesn't do it again


Have you forgot the performance at Mania 19? Or his first title win against the Rock at Summerslam? What about the epic HIAC vs. Taker?



TJChurch said:


> Anyone with a decent memory who cares about more than a month of WWE's future.
> 
> Add his return to "Lord Tensai", & WWE is planning its future based largely on some of the worst of its past.


Don't ever post in here again, your opinions are terrible. Brock is probably the best 'monster' WWE have ever had and hes a mother fucking draw. Think how epic UFC is to everybody nowadays and Brock adds at least 300,000 buyrate to every show he's in.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> There's pretty much no point on comment on the non-bolded part since we'd be talking back and forth on some loop. You like spectacle, I don't really care for it.


It's a quality of the match. I doesn't matter if you care about it or not (well not for my argument's purpose at least). Do you like crowd reaction? Atmosphere? Ring psychology? Storytelling? Selling? MOVEZZ? Spectacle is a part of the match as these other qualities are (I'm in no way insinuating that they are all equally as important b/c they're not).

Also, this is Aristotle. Theater was the wrestling of his era. :side:



> But the bolded part I'm going to nudge (even though you said you weren't going to address it 8*D)- a bunch of people can care for a match with good build up, but the match itself doesn't become magically good based on that alone.


Magically? I simply stated that spectacle amplifies the nature of the match. If it's good, spectacle can push it into being very good (Rock/Hogan, Austin/Rock), and vice versa (Hogan/Sting, Orton/Triple H).



> So...you're saying that's good or bad? I might be reading this wrong, but it sounds like "Punk v Henry had an easier story to tell so I'll cut the other match some slack because of the multiple layers" or something. I'm probably totally way off and that's not the right way to word it, but that's the impression I'm getting.


First things first. I don't have anything bad to say about Hunter vs. Triple H. I'm not cutting it any slack b/c there's nothing about the match that bothers me. It does have a much more complicated story than Henry vs. Punk (again, assumption) so it does have deeper impact. It affects me more than a match with a pretty linear story would. I know I shouldn't expand on this b/c I haven't seen Punk vs. Henry. I'm just going by your description of the match.



> I'd rather something simple be pulled off extremely well than something complicated be pulled off poorly. If I watched both matches again I'd have STACKS more negatives for Mania and there's stuff in that match that I had a hard time wrapping my head around in the first place. I'll cop to not getting it if it's explained in a way I agree with, but something like Michaels wanting to stop the match and then flipping out like a wuss when he counted down Trip after the first Tombstone confused me.


I didn't think the Mania match was pulled off poorly at all. If it was, it'd have fallen into Triple H/Orton territory, where they had the story served on a platter and just ruined it.



> I still don't think that means it's better. It *could*, but not purely from that.


Why not? Evoking greater emotion in the viewer = greater success, surely? And I'm obviously not talking about emotion circa Bryan/Sheamus b/c that was just in poor taste. But I don't see why the original point isn't valid.



> Purely/mainly because of the lack of (deeper) story?


Yes. I wouldn't have said that if I thought Triple H and Taker did poor work of the story they had, but they didn't imo. I can imagine Henry vs. Punk being good, great even, maybe better than Rock vs. Cena b/c they didn't really do that well with everything they had, but I don't think Triple H vs. Undertaker HIAC could've been _much_ better (yes, certain things could have but it wouldn't have created a big gap in quality).



> It was weird to me for a few reasons. You hadn't seen the match and completely assumed it would be laughable to think it was better than the Cell. I wouldn't have said anything if it was more "I'd be shocked if I thought that was better than Taker/Trip" (Not that I'm trying to "call you out" in the first place or anything), but "bigger story = better match"


Let me say it again just so there's no confusion caused from my part. I think Triple H vs. Undertaker was very well worked.

Also, maybe I should've worked it differently. Lack of tact on my part and I apologize if I sounded like a douche (was certainly not my intention to do so). But I'm just 100% confident that I won't like Punk/Henry more than Trips/Taker.



> I'd be surprised if any regular poster in this thread other than Steffan and I thought Punk/Henry was better than the Cell, but I don't think it's laughable to think otherwise. And thinking that Punk/Henry was better the Cell didn't look like something to call "laughable" because it doesn't have a big build or previous ground.
> 
> At the end of the day, I sure as hell want story in a match, no matter how tiny or short-lasting it is, but if a match has MORE story and is more significant b/c of "the streak" "end of an era" and eveything in between, I still can't see why it's pretty much instantly better. They have more ground to work with, yeah, but it's sounding like you're saying the worst match with a lot of story is better than the best match with little match, in a way.


No I'm saying that a great match with a great story is better than a great match with a good story.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

admiremyclone said:


> I enjoyed the HIAC more after watching it again today, but by god Michaels was horrendous throughout it all. Since he initially came back in 2002 he's been a HORRIBLE actor and he got worse as the years went by. He was so cheesy on Sunday and made it completely unbelievable. If you think that was good acting then I don't know what to say.
> 
> Apart from that, the match was great. The sweet chin music into the pedigree made me almost wet my pants. I thought it was all over.


I don't know whether it's just me but as an in-ring performer, I've enjoyed Michaels much more since his return in 2002. I realize you're referring to his "acting;" I just wanted to point it out.

The only matches that hold up in comparison to his post-2002 work: Ladder Match I, Iron Man Match, and vs. Bulldog @ KOTR '96. I like the Cell match against the Undertaker, but I really can't stick to a rating for that match. I'm not THAT high on Mind Games. There is also the No DQ match against Nash and I think that's one awesome match. Yeah, pretty much.

As a character, of course, Michaels has been pale since his return, but that doesn't bother me as much as it may bother others. Still, for me, SummerSlam 2002 and WrestleMania XIX, XX, 21, and XXVI > everything else Michaels has done. Of course, SummerSlam 2002 and WrestleMania XXVI are very, very special.

Continuing the TV match discussions, I adore two of Michaels' TV matches: against Benoit from Raw in Pheonix (2004) and against Triple H from Raw in San Antonio (2003). Splendid stuff.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I prefer Michaels' wrestling post-return as well.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Less cocaine up the nose more fun.

I doubt he'll be remembered as much if he didn't return. Certainly not GOAT bracket.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Probably not. An advantage to his comeback matches is he had a wider variety of people to face.

Back in 1994 to 1998. His opponents ranged from Jarrett to Sid. None of them exactly masters of the ring


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I definitely think Shawn had a better chance since his return in 02 to face great guys and have great matches... which probably makes his stuff pre-back injury more impressive when he was getting good stuff out of utter shit. His top 5 matches for me would be split between pre-back injury and post-back injury, with maybe the deciding match being something from 02 onwards. His character was way better when he was coked up though .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Wrestlemania 26 is an excellent match, the Cena series is awesome, SS v Orton is 2007 is very good/borderline great, v Benjamin is a great Raw Match, both Raw matches v Benoit and HHH are excellent as Razor King said....and that's about it for Shawn.

He brings the match down at Wrestlemania 19, Jericho puts in perhaps his career performance (about tied with the HHH LMS match) and yet its probably not even a top 5 Jericho career match because of how Michaels' comeback renders the prior back work which shaped not only Jericho's entire strategy but also the overwhelming story of the match and of his return absolutely useless. Seriously the HBK kickup spot usually annoys me a lot in key situations, and this is about as good as evidence of how it can take me out of a match as I can recall.

I've said my piece about Summerslam 2002, I think they tried to do much and the match feels disjointed in how Michaels goes from underdog to psychpath trying to kill HHH. Felt they either needed to do a bloody brawl or just focus on HHH being a dick and centre the story around whether Michaels still had it, by combining both elements I think it really brought the match down. Its by no means bad, but there's a much better match in them (which funnily enough they achieved in 2003 on Raw).

Wrestlemania 21 is much the same, parts of it are excellent yet there's also far too many faults such as the finisher overkill, Angle's set ups for the Ankle lock and transitions which don't feel built up to, the overkill with the Ankle lock etc etc. Crowd is hot and it does feel like a very big match, still its closer to Kobashi/Misawa 2003 instead of Kobashi/Misawa 1997. Puro watchers will probably understand that reference.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I nearly forgot about the Orton match (Survivor Series 2007). It's one of Michaels' best no doubt and probably Orton's best. Shawn Michaels just couldn't stop having great matches in 2007 and for me, this was the best of the lot.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I legit lost my shit watching the HIAC lol. Lost my voice and lost all of my energy until Rock/Cena. Don't remember the last time I was actually jumping up and down from marking out like a damn kid. Not one person in that arena was sitting down from the second JR walked down that aisle. I actually had to go stand outside and get a refill of some water and to get a breather during the tag match it took that much out of me. Crowd completely died after it too which is understandable. But holy fucking shit what a match. I still can't believe that I've been to Mania 25-28 and got to personally witness all the matches in this incredible series live in person. What a storybook. Watching the 3 of them walk out together like that and then take one last look at the standing ovation they were receiving was just...special. I'll never forget it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gonna watch Mania now. On first viewing I didn't think Shawn's acting was very good in the Cell but at the same time the dynamic his character brought to the match definitely added to the drama and the story.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ownage™ said:


> Gonna watch Mania now. On first viewing I didn't think Shawn's acting was very good in the Cell but at the same time the dynamic his character brought to the match definitely added to the drama and the story.


I haven't watched Mania on TV yet. So far I'm only able to go on what I felt and experienced in the stadium. I can't wait to watch both the HIAC and Rock/Cena back though. Jericho/Punk too for that matter because I hardly remember any of it. The HIAC completely drained all my energy. I didn't have anything left for Jericho/Punk at that point tbh.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I definitely prefer Michaels' in-ring performances post-return, but his facial expressions during matches just became horrific and embarassing to watch.

Rock and Brock's pops on RAW give me goosebumps every time I watch them, as does the pop when Rock gets the win over Cena. The way the camera cuts away to a wide shot of the crowd you can see literally EVERYBODY going totally bonkers crazy in joy. Gives me chills.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Ownage™ said:


> Gonna watch Mania now. On first viewing I didn't think Shawn's acting was very good in the Cell but at the same time the dynamic his character brought to the match definitely added to the drama and the story.


Be good to see how you feel.

I got Punk/Jericho at ****1/4 on first watch, will watch again tomorrow. Im going to watch Trips/Taker from WM 27 first before the HIAC, makes sense.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> It's a quality of the match. I doesn't matter if you care about it or not (well not for my argument's purpose at least). Do you like crowd reaction? Atmosphere? Ring psychology? Storytelling? Selling? MOVEZZ? Spectacle is a part of the match as these other qualities are (I'm in no way insinuating that they are all equally as important b/c they're not).


I know it's a quality of the match, and I won't try to change any opinion you have. I don't think we'll disagree that story is the most important part of the match (you might, but you have to think it's near the top yeah?). Spectacle, on the other hand, doesn't mean as much to me as it does you. Don't get me wrong, I like a big match feel, but a big match feel won't make any bad match good. 

MOVEZZ is a talking point, but it's...weird to talk about. I don't like Dean Malenko-like chain-for-chain wrestling because he pretty much destroys any potential for a story. Mysterio debuts in WCW and he works over his arm- not letting Rey get much offense, and when Rey DOES get offense, he's gotta shrug the arm work because you have to believe the WCW higher-ups wanted him to bust out crazy-ass shit that Malenko should have been pushing him to do in the first place. Malenko's moves looked cool, but they went no where.

Austin v Benoit 5/31/01- Austin works injured ribs, and does this fucking ridiculous reverse suplex on the announce table. He could have done just about anything but that suplex was a "move" and without sounding sadistic, is one of my favourites spots in wrestling history.




Hohenheim of Light said:


> Magically? I simply stated that spectacle amplifies the nature of the match. *If it's good, spectacle can push it into being very good* (Rock/Hogan, Austin/Rock), and vice versa (Hogan/Sting, Orton/Triple H).


Let's pretend Punk/Henry has a year-long build up yet they work the exact same match- is it any better? This isn't a rhetorical being-a-jackass question. I'm just curious where you sit on that. I totally get the spectacle can make the match feel more important, but I'm trying to imagine Punk/Henry with the exact same match but a long rivalry. Unless the finish is a call-back and not merely...well a disappointing count-out, I wouldn't see any reason to call it better.

@ the bold part- that has less affect on me than probably anyone else. I mean Rock/Austin WAS a spectacle, but I don't even think about the reaction when the match is brought up, I think of a fucking awesome wrestling match, that even in front of twenty five people in a gymnasium, would be a fucking awesome wrestling match. Chris Hero and Ian Rotten worked a match from an IWA-MS show in 2002 in front of like thirteen people, and I honestly think that was better than something like Michaels/Angle, which had the glamour and big-match feel of WrestleMania. Michaels/Angle is still good to me (we'll see), but the spectacle doesn't make it go up from "just good." For me. Yeah.

Also "magically" was a term I used b/c I felt I was saying "instantly" and "automatically" too much. 



Hohenheim of Light said:


> First things first. I don't have anything bad to say about Hunter vs. Triple H. I'm not cutting it any slack b/c there's nothing about the match that bothers me. It does have a much more complicated story than Henry vs. Punk (again, assumption) so it does have deeper impact. It affects me more than a match with a pretty linear story would. I know I shouldn't expand on this b/c I haven't seen Punk vs. Henry. I'm just going by your description of the match.


Punk/Henry's story isn't as "deep" as HHH/Taker's. The idea of something being "deep" in pro wrestling in the first place doesn't sit with me, but for lack of a better term I'll use that. Deeper just =/= better match for me. Though I'm not implying a match with less story is = better match.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I didn't think the Mania match was pulled off poorly at all. If it was, it'd have fallen into Triple H/Orton territory, where they had the story served on a platter and just ruined it.


I didn't like HHH/Orton because they didn't really work the angles like they should have. I didn't like HHH/Taker because, while they still worked the angles, they did it badly. To me, anyway- I'm not going to get in a vicious cycle over Shawn's acting.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Why not? Evoking greater emotion in the viewer = greater success, surely? And I'm obviously not talking about emotion circa Bryan/Sheamus b/c that was just in poor taste. But I don't see why the original point isn't valid.


This is a "bad match/good story" "good match/little story" thing that's touched on below. Unless I missed the point. You're not saying a match filled with plodding shit, yet had a story pulled of wonderfully is better than a match with great un-plodding shit is better than a match with little story, but that's the impression I guess I got from somewhere.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Yes. I wouldn't have said that if I thought Triple H and Taker did poor work of the story they had, but they didn't imo. I can imagine Henry vs. Punk being good, great even, maybe better than Rock vs. Cena b/c they didn't really do that well with everything they had, but I don't think Triple H vs. Undertaker HIAC could've been _much_ better (yes, certain things could have but it wouldn't have created a big gap in quality).


So it's more "how they pulled the story off" instead of the actual story (to some degree- otherwise you'd think Rock/Cena was instantly better, yeah?). 



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Let me say it again just so there's no confusion caused from my part. I think Triple H vs. Undertaker was very well worked.


I never got the impression otherwise, nor did I think that you were implying Punk/Henry definitely wasn't good.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Also, maybe I should've worked it differently. Lack of tact on my part and I apologize if I sounded like a douche (was certainly not my intention to do so). But I'm just 100% confident that I won't like Punk/Henry more than Trips/Taker.


Oh I didn't think you sounded like a douche at all. And I've read thoughts on wrestling matches a million times that make me think I won't like it anywhere near as much as other stuff. If I watch Richards v Elgin from last weekend and think it's better than Punk v Henry I will extract my own ribcage and eat my own dick, but yeah 'laughable's kind of the term that got me confused there.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> No I'm saying that a great match with a great story is better than a great match with a good story.


I guess the only difference is you thought Trip/Taker was a great match, then. My opinion's:

Punk/Henry:
Story: Good. Pulled of excellently.
Match: Really good.

HHH/Taker:
Story: Really good. Pulled off meh-ish.
Match: Mix of pretty friggin' good and pretty friggin' bad. 

IDK how this would sound to someone who loved Trip/Taker, but if they took that story out I probably would have enjoyed it more. Not ALL the story, but I'd rather it go no further than "Helmsley wants this win, Taker wants this win- they do call backs from last year" and beat the fuck out of each other. Story isn't the only issue I had with the match, though. Thought it plodded badly and just wasn't a good brawl at all (some of it was). HHH using everything he can to get up and fight back is nice, but it's not going to turn "not a good brawl" into "a great brawl" for me. 

Again, the difference with this point (and one we'd have no reason to debate about), is that you thought the match was actually great.

-------------------

Michaels: I'm probably lower on 2000s Michaels than anyone here. His best match of that decade (inc. 2010) to me is the first Taker Mania match and I've thought that was clearly a Taker match every time I've watch it (Michaels was good). I wouldn't put that match in Michaels' top 5 and his best performances all come from pre-98 to me. 06 had him practically sucking shit and 96 had him pretty much carrying Kevin Nash and Sid to their best matches. In the 90s he was up against better workers at times like Hart and Vader and managed to outperform them. But yeah, different strokes. Can o' worms stay closed. :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I absolutely fucking ADORE Shawn's first title reign in 96. I haven't given it much thought of course, but I believe that his particular reign at that time was the best WWF/WWE title reign since the Hogan/Golden Age Era, match quality wise. I really can't think of a better one.

Here is a list of his PPV title matches/defences w/o star ratings:

WM 12 Ironman: Meh
IYH 7 vs Diesel: LOVE LOVE LOVE.... Nash's best match IMO.
KOTR 96 vs Bulldog: LOVE.
SS 96 vs Vader: I fucking ADORE this match
Mind Games vs Mankind: One of my all-time favorites...Amazing match
SS 96 vs Sid: Sid's best match, a personal favorite that I mark out to. AMAZING.

Plus, he had numerous TV matches with the likes of HHH, Owen, Goldust, Yokozuna, Marty Jannety, and STEVE AUSTIN, amongst others. Can anybody name a title reign POST-Backlund that rivals Shawn's in match quality?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Whoever booked Danielson/Sheamus should be fired immediately. Also Triple H/Taker is being mostly overrated for the second straight year. HIAC with pretty much no cell work is complete BS. Why not just have another no holds barred match with HBK as ref because that is pretty much what they did. Overall thought the show was great. Punk/Jericho and Rock/Cena were amazing. I will give my preliminary ratings but I need to watch it again.

Sheamus/Bryan - Two middle fingers to WWE
Kane/Orton - ***
Show/Rhodes - **1/4
Divas - don't remember because i wasn't paying attention
Triple H/Taker - ***3/4 (and that is generous)
Team Teddy/Team Johnny - **1/2
Punk/Jericho - ****
Rock/Cena - ****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Word said:


> Be good to see how you feel.
> 
> I got Punk/Jericho at ****1/4 on first watch, will watch again tomorrow. Im going to watch Trips/Taker from WM 27 first before the HIAC, makes sense.


Just watched Punk/Jericho. Great match. Review coming up after Cena/Rock.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Batista: I Walk Alone*

Documentary

Dave Batista never really struck me as a person who loved the business. He seemed like another musclehead who failed at bodybuilding but took up wrestling as a side project, and due to Vince's homoerotic love for muscle bound bodybuilders, ended up with a contract and a huge push. I could not have been more wrong. After watching this documentary, the words I have to describe Dave Batista would be: Respect, honour, caring, mentally AND physically empowering.

This would have to be one of the more personal superstar documentaries I have ever seen. We get a glimpse into Batista's personal life before his wrestling days, as well as his struggles early on in the business, being told that he would never amount to anything at the WCW power plant. Boy, did he ever prove that guy wrong. Batista grew up in a rough neighbourhood, but his story is one of perseverance, using the love he received from his partner, his mother, and his friends, as well as a personal desire, to get to the top.

Batista's respect for the business really shines through in the documentary, as you can see him just LIGHTING up when talking about the respect he has for Ric Flair, Triple H, and The Undertaker. Watching Big Dave break down while talking about his personal relationship with Eddie is just heartbreaking as well. I didn't realize until after this documentary that Batista has wrestled in a few MOTY contenders with the workers that he respects the most. 

All in all, this documentary runs smooth, and I can honestly say it's one of the best single superstar doc's I have ever seen, with a perfect mix of Wrestling-related and personal-related discussion. I absolutely love it, and give it a watch when you can, as it will completely change your perception of Batista the wrestler AND the individual himself.

*9/10*

*Matches*

Disc Two

Leviathan vs Doug Basham OVW 01: *** 1/4*
Batista vs Kane ARM 02: ***
Batista vs Shawn Michaels ARM 03: *****
Batista/Ric Flair vs The Dudley Boyz: ****
Batista vs Chris Jericho VEN 04: *** 3/4*
Royal Rumble 2005 (Ending): *N/A*
Batista vs Triple H WM 21: *****
Batista vs Triple H HIAC VEN 05: ***** 3/4*
Batista vs JBL SS 05: *****
Batista vs Eddie Guerrero NM 05: *****

Disc Three

Batista vs King Booker SS 06: *** 1/4*
Batista vs King Booker vs Finlay SD 06: **** 3/4*
Batista vs The Undertaker WM 23: ***** 1/2*
Batista vs Edge Cage ONS 07: *** 3/4*
Batista vs The Undertaker CS 07: ***** 1/4*
Evolution vs Orton/Edge/Umaga RAW 07: *N/A*
Batista vs John Cena SS 08: ******
Batista vs Randy Orton ARM 08: *** 3/4*

Here are a few observations I took away from the match ratings:

Looking at the match listing, this DVD follows, succeeds, and suffers in the exact areas that the HHH: King of Kings did. Instead of being "Batista's greatest matches" (although it DID actually include Batista's 2 best matches, but I digress), it served more as the history of the animal, rather than a best of comp. We get an OVW match, Batista's 1st PPV singles match, his first BIG PPV singles match, a Flair match, Rumble/HHH matches, an Eddie match, the second title win, a few matches that highlight his major feuds such as Edge/JBL/Taker, etc, and his match with Cena. Sounds like a Dave Batista history lesson if you ask me.

While I HATE a few of these selections, here are a few of the match selections that I adore: CS vs Taker was the most underrated match of 2007, overshadowed by the amazing WM 23 encounter,SS vs JBL is one of the most underrated matches I've ever seen, as people shit on it constantly all the time but I just love how brutal it is, and the triple threat SD 06 match was a damn near fucking classic. Seriously, WHAT IS IT ABOUT SMACKDOWN IN 2006 ?!?!?! If I were to ever buy a non official-WWE comp, it would be of SD 06. It's also unfortunate that the stretcher match vs HBK wasn't included, as well as the John Cena trilogy of 2010 (I know this DVD was released before those matches even took place). 

At the end of the day though, out of 16 OFFICIAL matches, we have four ****+ matches, three of which being all time classics. It isn't the best match listing in the world, but it certainly isn't bad, as Dave is a fairly entertaining wrestler, and I felt that this DVD was very easy to sit through. I absolutely loved this DVD, and I hope Batista makes a return to the ring again someday. 

*8/10*

Considering doing a HIAC project in the coming days....We'll see what happens, I'm just curious to see where the WM XXVIII match ranks. Right now, I have it at 3, MAYBE 4, on the list(have HIAC I + Batista/Trips higher, but the latter is interchangable due to personal favorism of that match). I'm not including the Kennel From Hell match either, fuck that dogshit of a match (literally). Should be fucking awesome.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not sure how I feel about Rock/Cena. I was distracted while watching so gonna give it another viewing. The atmosphere was fantastic but some of the in-ring work was horrible. Cena's bear hug in particular was pathetic. The gap between his body and Rock's was clear as day.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I absolutely fucking ADORE Shawn's first title reign in 96. I haven't given it much thought of course, but I believe that his particular reign at that time was the best WWF/WWE title reign since the Hogan/Golden Age Era, match quality wise. I really can't think of a better one.
> 
> Here is a list of his PPV title matches/defences w/o star ratings:
> 
> ...


Yeah, it was a hell of a run. Watched the "1996 yearbook" that was put together (all 120+ hours of it- I've NEVER done that), and I didn't think Michaels' reign would hold up THAT well. It did. I'd say he had one match that wasn't really good, and that was the first match with Bulldog, but the rest ranged from fun tv match to match of the year contender. Some really took me by surprise- the February In Your House match with Owen was really fucking good. Mind Games is still Shawn's best match to me and at least a top 5 in the company's history. Probably higher if the finish wasn't so bad.

Not sure where I'd rank it for best title reigns, but I'm thinking Austin's 2001 is definitely better. I fully don't think he had a match as good as Mind Games that year, though.




Ownage™;11258302 said:


> Not sure how I feel about Rock/Cena. I was distracted while watching so gonna give it another viewing. The atmosphere was fantastic but some of the in-ring work was horrible. Cena's bear hug in particular was pathetic. The gap between his body and Rock's was clear as day.


Cena's bearhug was pretty smelly, but TBF it looked better than Rock's sharpshooter, or even his headlock at the beginning.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> I enjoyed the HIAC more after watching it again today, but by god Michaels was horrendous throughout it all. Since he initially came back in 2002 he's been a HORRIBLE actor and he got worse as the years went by. He was so cheesy on Sunday and made it completely unbelievable. If you think that was good acting then I don't know what to say.
> 
> Apart from that, the match was great. The sweet chin music into the pedigree made me almost wet my pants. I thought it was all over.


Was reading the last few pages, & decided to stop when people started saying my "opinions are terrible". When you start posting your opinions of my opinions, you've lost the plot.

That said, there was one person who was worse than the others in that overrated (by some) match, but it was not HBK. If anything, I have enjoyed him more since he retired. The one whose career should be over is the one who also should end their "Streak".


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

Watched WrestleMania twice: once live and once on my computer. 

Ratings:
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus: DUD
Kane vs. Randy Orton: **3/4
Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes: *1/2
Divas: N/A
Undertaker vs. Triple H: ****1/2
Team Teddy vs. Team Johnny: *3/4
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho: ****1/4
John Cena vs. The Rock: ***1/4


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I absolutely fucking ADORE Shawn's first title reign in 96. I haven't given it much thought of course, but I believe that his particular reign at that time was the best WWF/WWE title reign since the Hogan/Golden Age Era, match quality wise. I really can't think of a better one.


You know, Shawn is my all time favorite wrestler, and I've always thought of 1996 as a terrible year for the WWF as a whole. Mostly the undercard, because I've never really realized how good Shawn's reign was until reading your post and going back to re-watch a lot of it. 

Certainly a lot of great talent you listed. I'm just surprised that there wasn't a single long feud for him until late 96, with Sid, that only lasted 3 months. And as you also mentioned, his matches with Goldust I thought were outstanding. (Especially on Raw, Shawn winning with a moonsault was pretty cool) Definitely could have seen that being a three month, high profile PPV feud.

Actually, any of those small feuds he had could have been full blown long term. Interesting, looking back again and seeing that my opinion of that period has drastically changed so much.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Wrestlemania XXVIII*

Daniel Bryan v Sheamus
-- You gotta be fucking kidding me. Fuck anyone who says Bryan losing the title this way makes sense because of how he won the belt and the way he's acted since. That does make sense but fuck you anyway. This was bullshit. Not only did they make Bryan look like a joke but they deprived Sheamus of the moment he could've had after winning a hard fought match.

DUD

Kane v Randy Orton
-- Is it just me or has Kane improved since his return? I thought he looked really good against Cena at the Rumble and this was another solid display. His offense looks better, his attire looks better, and he seems to have upped his workrate a bit. Orton's much more solid and consistent than he was a few years ago as well so I wasn't surprised that this was good. Steady pace, solid action, nice finish.

**3/4

Cody Rhodes v Big Show
-- Thought this had the potential to be decent with Rhodes being a cocky douchebag and Show getting redemption but it fell flat for me. Cody's control segment was meh, can't remember any decent nearfalls, and the crowd didn't care. Enjoyed Show swatting Cody around at times, that's about it. Thankfully they kept it short. Wouldn't call it bad, just completely forgettable. 

*1/2

Divas Tag
-- What the fuck is Beth wearing down to the ring? Not gonna lie, I didn't hate this. Menounos was either in a lot of pain from her injuries or she's a better seller than a lot of the divas. She was constantly holding the rib area, even towards the end when she was going to the top rope. Speaking of top rope that move Kelly did is probably the best thing she's ever done. Those things and Eve's booty shaking made this okay.

*

The Undertaker v Triple H
-- The match I was most looking forward to and it did not disappoint. Fantastic storytelling from two consummate in-ring pros picking up right where they left off last year. The start was slow and while it wasn't all that exciting it had its purpose. Taker means business and he's not going to let Hunter play the game on his terms like he did last year. Had my fingers crossed for a blade job but Taker busting Trips open hard way was more badass. Nice callbacks to Wrestlemania 27 with the spinebuster on the steps and the Hell's Gate. Once Shawn's role as referee becomes pivotal it really kicks off and from there to the finish it's WWE drama and storytelling at its finest. They were never going to be able to come up with a false finish as compelling as HHH's Tombstone last year but damn the super kick into the Pedigree had me going. The finishing stretch is incredibly well done and to my mind just about the perfect end to the HBK/Taker/HHH Mania story arc. The main criticism I've heard for this (and their match last year) is that it's mainly chair shots and finishers. Yeah it is, but when you tell a story as well as these guys did and get me truly invested in what's happening in the ring it really doesn't matter. Another complaint is it didn't need to be HiaC because they barely used the Cell. My response to that is who fucking cares? Didn't bother me one bit. Epic stuff, just like last year.

****1/4

Team Johnny v Team Teddy
-- I think it was Yeah1993 who ragged on this and I completely agree with him. Following HHH/Taker its placement on the card was to give the fans a breather before the other big matches and that's all it was good for. Really bad.

1/2*

CM Punk v Chris Jericho
-- Excellent match. Jericho's such a good asshole and the first part of the match with him trying to get in Punk's head for the DQ win was very well done. Suplex onto the floor was a sweet transition spot into Jericho's control segment, which was also good. Punk makes the comeback and then it's pretty much a back and forth sprint to the finish with some truly awesome counters and sequences. Marked out for the Walls of Jericho counter to Punk's hurricanrana attempt. A couple moves looked a tad sloppy but overall this was top notch. 

****

John Cena v The Rock
-- This was a mixed bag. Great atmosphere and at times it had elements of a good match but there was some pretty shitty stuff as well. The opening exchanges were pretty good, the last FU was a great nearfall and I liked the finish. Cena's bear hug and control segment in general kind of sucked, as did the submission attempts towards the end. Actually most of the holds in general looked pretty bad. And the double clothesline too. I guess they felt they needed to go 30 minutes for it to be epic but they could've easily shaved off some of the time and probably had a better match. Good spectacle, decent match.

***1/4


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Rewatched Triple H vs Taker... I think it was someone in here that said Shawn Michaels's performance was poor. To that person, politely GTFO  Shawn was one of the best non-wrestlers in a match ever in this. If I had to slap one of those star ratings on, I'd probably go somewhere like ****1/4. Good stuff.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

Dark Church said:


> HIAC with pretty much no cell work is complete BS. Why not just have another no holds barred match with HBK as ref because that is pretty much what they did.


 The cell didnt need to be used, but the match was better because it was. It was a prop in a story Think about it -

- HBK / Taker is widley considered to be the best HIAC match in history.
- HHH has had an extremley succesful run when it comes to HIAC matches. As has Taker.
- HHH's record is better than Takers inside HIAC.

Just take a minute to think beyond what a HIAC match should be like, and instead think of what its history is. The psychology and story wouldnt of been half as good had it been just a no holds barred.

I'm not trying to impose anything and you're certainly entitled to your oppinion, I just think that you are someone who is certainly smart enough to distinguish the diffrence between a HIAC that serves a story and a HIAC thats a glorified hardcore match.


----------



## DarloKid (Jan 7, 2012)

I really enjoyed Wrestlemania last night one of the best thats been for years i thought and a huge improvment on last year, heres how i rated it

Wrestlemania 28
Sheamus vs Bryan - N/R
Kane vs Orton - ***1/4
Big Show vs Cody Rhodes - *1/2
Diva Tag - *1/2
Hell in a Cell, Undertaker vs HHH - *****
Team Teddy vs Team Johnny - ***
WWE Title CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - ****1/4
The Rock vs John Cena - ****1/4


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Watched Taker/Trips from WM 27, I have this at their WM 17 match both at ****1/4.

WM 27 - wasn't a lover of Taker taking 3 pedigrees and a tombstone but still kicked out, felt a little over done. I enjoyed the first 10 minutes, loved the brawling but the rest was a tired exchange of finishers.

WM 17 - just an entertaining brawl, attitude era style match, had it all even with the ref dying for 10 minutes.

Haven't seen WM28 match yet, can't see them pulling off the full 5, just don't see that extra step in them,


----------



## EliteNate (Mar 5, 2012)

Wrestlemania 28
Sheamus vs Bryan - *
Kane vs Orton - **3/4
Big Show vs Cody Rhodes - **
Diva Tag - **
Hell in a Cell, Undertaker vs HHH - *****
Team Teddy vs Team Johnny - ***1/4
WWE Title CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - ****1/4
The Rock vs John Cena - ****


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WrestleMania X-Seven*

*IC Title*: Chris Jericho vs. William Regal - **3/4

The APA & Tazz vs. Right to Censor - **

*Hardcore Title*: Raven vs. The Big Show vs. Kane - **1/2

*European Title*: Test vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - ***1/2

*Women’s Title*: Ivory vs. Chyna - *1/2

Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon - ***3/4

TLC II - ***3/4

UT/HHH - ***3/4

*WWF Title*: The Rock vs. Stone Cold – ****1/4


Found a new appreciation for this show on so many levels. WM XIX has often been my favorite WM of all time, but this viewing might have given XIX a run for its money (need to rewatch that too). Such an amazing variety of action, from technical, to spotfests, to soap opera, to weapons, brawls, and a HUGE main event.

McMahon/McMahon is perfectly booked entertainment. So many wonderful moments, like Shane crashing through the table, Trish turning face, Linda getting out of the chair, Foley taking out Vince, and the big finish.

TLC II holds up amazingly for an 11-year old ladder match. So much fun.

UT/HHH is ridiculous, but I love how HHH really looks like the first major threat to to the streak. The sledgehammer shot is awesome, great false finish. This was, if I remember correctly, the first and best time UT surprised his opponent with the LR out of the corner.

Rock/Austin is probably the last GREAT WrestleMania event: an all-out war between two guys in their prime. This is a grudge feud based not on hate, but on being the best, and winning the WWF Title. I don't think any WM main event put over the title more than this one match. 

Even more amazing, is that it never gets boring. 28 minutes long, and non-stop action. No rest holds, just brawling, weapons, intense submissions, finishers, near-falls, interference, everything. I actually even like how McMahon didn't try to make it theatrical. He simply came out and helped Austin. The drama came from the post-match handshake. Did it go anywhere? No, but still shocking as hell, and worked for the goals of the challenger.

This is probably the first time I really loved watching this show: such variety, such work-rate. I mean: Angle/Benoit, McMahon/McMahon, TLC II, UT/HHH, and Rock/Austin. That's insane. Great show. Might actually finally be my favorite WM.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Rewatched Triple H vs Taker... I think it was someone in here that said Shawn Michaels's performance was poor. To that person, politely GTFO  Shawn was one of the best non-wrestlers in a match ever in this. If I had to slap one of those star ratings on, I'd probably go somewhere like ****1/4. Good stuff.


I actually think that may have been said by more than one person here. I think one of them might have been me, & I pretty much stand by it.

His performance wasn't poor, but he wasn't needed much (outside of those times he worked for Taker, backing Trips off). However, I think his performance looks better to some because the actual wrestling done in this match was so AWFUL.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think the opposite.......sort of. I think Shawn was a nice addition to the match and was needed for some of it, but he just sucked in it.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think Shawn... was needed for some of it, but he just sucked in it.


Half & half. He was needed a lot to hold Trips back from attacking Taker to be sure he lived, &/but Shawn was the best-performing wrestler in that Cell.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Randomness...

I watched this other WWE video with guys talking about the Hell in a Cell match, and I have to say that the deck is stacked against anybody who wrestles Undertaker for the Streak next year--on sheer basis of the magnitude of Undertaker's past 4 matches.

But the question is: was it Undertaker's last match (the HIAC)?

If it's not, it could also be a blessing in disguise and could allow Undertaker to have a less demanding match in terms of physicality and save the last for WrestleMania 30 against Cena. Whilst Jericho/Undertaker wouldn't be as big, it could be really good and it would be a good choice.

But if the WWE manage to pull off Rock/Undertaker... :ex:

The Royal Rumble has lost so much value that WWE should actually change the stipulation and award the winner a shot at the Streak. Now, that could be one heck of a storyline. The Streak is bigger than the title at WrestleMania in any way.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Razor King said:


> But if the WWE manage to pull off Rock/Undertaker... :ex:


If WWE put that match on at WrestleMania I think I would combust the moment it is announced let alone watch it go down.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Razor King said:


> Randomness...
> 
> I watched this other WWE video with guys talking about the Hell in a Cell match, and I have to say that the deck is stacked against anybody who wrestles Undertaker for the Streak next year--on sheer basis of the magnitude of Undertaker's past 4 matches.


You mean how sheerly bad they were?!



Razor King said:


> The Royal Rumble has lost so much value that WWE should actually change the stipulation and award the winner a shot at the Streak. Now, that could be one heck of a storyline. The Streak is bigger than the title at WrestleMania in any way.


I don't know that the streak is any better.... But they should change that stip anyway. The greatness of the prize at it stands now depends on who the Champs are. Against a guy like Miz?! Who cares?! Bryan & Punk are both better, but getting a match that isn't a minute long on that big stage sucks.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

^ Only a genius can truly come up with that.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

TJChurch said:


> I actually think that may have been said by more than one person here. I think one of them might have been me, & I pretty much stand by it.
> 
> His performance wasn't poor, but he wasn't needed much (outside of those times he worked for Taker, backing Trips off). However, I think his performance looks better to some because the actual wrestling done in this match was so AWFUL.





Yeah1993 said:


> I think the opposite.......sort of. I think Shawn was a nice addition to the match and was needed for some of it, but he just sucked in it.


Jeez, really?

Shawn took the match to another level I think. They played a sort of 'slow boil' where they'd do little things like shove him and you knew it was only a matter of time until he lashed out at someone. And where there was that nearfall after the Sweet Chin Music/Pedigree and he just put his hand over his mouth, it made you remember it wasn't just a match between two guys, it was a match between two guys for the streak that ended his career and that his best friend is going up against, but he's going against a guy that everyone respects so much and it was so close to ending because of his interference and... yeah, I thought that was intense.

I don't think the "Please, just end it"s were needed, but whatever. He did the wheedling little needy voice well also.

TJChurch, I wouldn't call the wrestling _awful_. What makes you say so?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd mark out for Undertaker/Rock about as much as I'd mark for Kurt Angle having a 60 minute Iron Man match with Jeff Hardy.

I do like the idea of the RR winner going after the streak though. I mentioned it myself a couple of months back. Would be a cool idea for everyone to still think the winner is going to challenge for a title, but then he can swerve people and say the only title he wants is the title of streak ender or something. But then what does that do for the WWE and WHC if someone doesn't want to wrestle for them? I dunno. Would maybe only work with the right person. Say, Lesnar. Next year.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Sorry to go off the Taker subject but why does Wrestlemania 28 on DVD come out a month in the UK after it does in the US?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Hunico v Tyson Kidd, Superstars 04/05/2012*

Opening mat sequences were smooth and I loved the Lucha sequence where Hunico has Kidd in the gory bomb and brings him into a pinning position on the mat and Kidd manages to hook the arms and transition into a sunset flip counter. There was also a nice moonsault armdrag off of the ropes which Hunico sold nicely and it was nice to see him constantly being outmatched in the beginning. Transition spot was nice in the urgency Hunico showed but the commercial kills whatever workover he did as they come back and he's working a nice submission but you're dying to see what he busted out inbetween: they did do a nice spot however where Kidd goes for a sunset flip but the left arm gives out and Hunico immediately goes back to work. Hunico taking taking the Jerry Estrada bump but landing on his feet and then doing some Arn Anderson esque 'you see that shit, I'm too smart to fall on my ass' schtick leading into Kidd sneaking up and hitting a running kick off the apron was super, but the finishing stretch wasn't terribly dramatic bar one sweet counter out of a tilt a whirl. Finish was good in setting up a rematch but I was just wanting Kidd to incorporate more spots around his weakened limb, like he has this set up spot where he's on the ropes, kicks his opponent and backflips onto the apron to set up a springboard....and you're just wanting him to sell that left arm when he's transitioning.

Kidd's a nice smooth worker but I'm not sold on him yet as anything more than a guy capable of some impressive visual shit, I mean Bourne's equally as good at that sort of thing but he works hard to bump and sell his ass off inbetween the awesome visual stuff. Good but I wouldn't say essential viewing. 

***1/2*


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Meltzer Star Ratings for Wrestlemania 28: *

Epico/Primo vs Justin/Tyson = **1/4 
Sheamus vs Bryan = DUD
Kane vs Orton = *3/4 
Show vs Rhodes = *1/2 
Womens match = 1/4* 
Taker vs HHH = ****3/4 
Ace vs Long = **1/4 
Punk vs Jericho = ***3/4 
Rock vs Cena = ***3/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Pretty much about what I expected of him, especially HIAC. I've some people say its either a match you give the full 5 or you completely hate, and that's something I can agree with. Its definitely either going to be the pinnacle of WWE Main Event wrestling in terms of the atmosphere, the spectacle, the drama, emotion and storytelling to some, or its going to be an overbooked cliche cheesy affair with a good story with average execution.

I thought Kane/Orton was better than that rating though, it was nothing blowaway great, but for two guys I actively can't watch in great doses it did a surprisingly good job of holding my attention which wasn't helped after the disastrous opening with Bryan/Sheamus. That being said I'm still of the belief they should have worked a NO DQ match since they seem to have a good formula as evidenced by their Smackdown match getting praised as being a step above the Wrestlemania match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> I'd mark out for Undertaker/Rock about as much as I'd mark for Kurt Angle having a 60 minute Iron Man match with Jeff Hardy..


So you wouldn't be delighted to see Taker kill Rock at a Mania? 

Next year I want either Rock, Cena or Lesnar vs. Undertaker. Any one of those would be epic.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd say Rock/Lesnar is still their best bet. I mean Lesnar was one of the top 5 Box Office Draws the past few years, so imagine an undefeated WWE Champion in Lesnar taking on Rock in the Meadowlands with Rock chasing his first WWE championship in a decade. I mean shit if that doesn't draw then what in the fuck else could? Normally I'd prefer that match to be non title and give the title match to two up and comers to steal the show, but hell Rock in a title match would surely get more buys with people then expecting him to be back at least until he drops the belt, at which point they really need to have built up someone like Punk to dethrone Rock in a marquee match to cement a new star.

I still really like the prospect of Cena going after the Streak to prove to himself he still has 'it' after losing to Rock and Lesnar (whenever they lock up which in a just world will be at Summerslam), people could buy it as the biggest threat to the Streak with Cena not going to lose 3 big matches in a row and Taker getting closer and closer to retirement.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Meanwhile, I'd be hoping for Mysterio/Hunter... I've wanted to see that match for so long and by the looks of it, we may never witness it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I just don't see them doing H/Rey while Hunter's face. The dynamic would be infinitely better with him as a heel. I'd like Mysterio/Cara and H/Punk instead.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not sure if Brock Vs Rock in a title match would happen since I doubt either guy is gonna extend their 1 year contract beyond WM 29. I hope Lesnar DOES (assuming he's still fucking awesome), but eh, don't see it happening, so a match for the title between 2 guys likely to leave afterwards doesn't seem like something that would happen. Undertaker Vs Brock would be the match I want to see most (fuck The Rock, and not too interested in Undertaker/Cena. Its kinda like Undertaker/Sting for me; I get WHY people would want to see it, but I just don't care), then I dunno, Cena Vs... someone and Punk Vs Rock? DO NO WANT a rematch between Rock and Cena, not after the crap fest they had this year. Punk going over Rock at WM would be epic. Anyways, who knows exactly what I'd want for next year. Someone might have one hell of a fucking year and end up featured in a big match that changes up any potential plans/anything I'd want to see etc.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If we can't get it at Mania then Summerslam would be a good second alternative, its time WWE really made Summerslam feel like a big event again rather than slapping the tag 'Biggest party of the Summer' and then only announcing like 4 matches the week before the event. Remember when Summerslam was almost like a mini Mania? I recall coming back from Holiday at the start of August and immediately checking WWE.Com for Raw and SD recaps to see what matches were set: Michaels/HHH, Rock/Brock, Benoit/Orton, Taker/Orton, Elimination Chamber etc etc. You had a good 5 weeks of build and a good 2-3 big main events and it felt like a massive show...then after 2004 it really began to decline in terms of build and depth in the card.

Lesnar/Cena should headline this year's event, really try and get a monster buyrate compared to what they've been doing since 2009 (sure its decreased drastically by the year) and then build a solid undercard underneath that marquee main event. Punk/Henry, Bryan/Sheamus etc etc.

EDIT: Cal I only base my view Rock is winning the title off of the belief he's gonna be around now when WWE needs him. Apparently he's switched management or something which has made this return to WWE more possible than before and I've gotta believe they'd be prepared to book him in at least one title match along the line. Lesnar so far is a 1 year deal according to everyone so him going against Taker probably wouldn't work unless they circulate rumours closer to the date that's he's agreed an extension etc so people buy him sticking around, otherwise people would probably expect a Taker win. At least in a hypothetical Rock/Brock title match you know that even if Brock does leave then by default Rock is likely to be available to work beyond WM29. Plus 1 year undefeated Brock v undefeated Rock sells itself.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm all for Rock/Lesnar. I'd prefer it to Lesnar/Undertaker, but Rocky/Undertaker tops it for me.




Clique said:


> I just don't see them doing H/Rey while Hunter's face. The dynamic would be infinitely better with him as a heel. I'd like Mysterio/Cara and H/Punk instead.


Yeah, those matches would be pretty neat too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh shit just remembered another dream match, Mysterio v Bryan :mark: . Make it fucking happen asap whilst Bryan's heel WWE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wonder if they will try and do anything big for Survivor Series this year too. The thing about having guys like Rock and Brock back means if they WANT, they can really try and bring back the prestige of their "big 4" events. Team Lesnar Vs Team whoever he is going to face at WM would be cool.

Man, its amazing how many matches I can think of that I'd want to see now that just Brock Lesnar is back :mark:. Oddly enough there really isn't anything I'd want to see Rock do. I know I'm a Rock hater, but damn, I just can't think of anything that would get me that excited. At all.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd love them to do Brock/Punk at SS for the belt after Brock wins at Summerslam, Brock wins and then holds the belt going into Wrestlemania and build to the Rock match. Of course that begs the question does Rock show up and win the Rumble, or do they try and go mainstream and have live confrontations between the two to build the match as something personal?

Long term I'd love Punk to be the one who ultimately comes out looking like a star by being the one to beat Rock if he does indeed get the title for one last time. Having these big draws back is great for giving the business a much needed shot in the arm and making a ton of money but they really need to cement a permanent star from all these Box Office stars returning. I guess they'd have a job making Punk look like he could beat someone of Rock's size given who he's been stuck feuding with but then again that's why they have writers.

Brock/Ziggler and Brock/Mysterio need to happen, Ziggles might actually die. And fuck if Bourne hadn't fucked up with weed and then potentially jeopardised his career with this foot injury could you imagine Brock/Bourne? That would be 100x better than any of the Gowen and Kendrick squashes which were awesome.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Has that Edge dvd been released in the US yet? If so can someone give a brief description on how good it is as I may pre-order it off Silvervision.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

why would you want Rock vs lesnar? We had that match when they were in their prime, and it was decent.

Id rather have Punk vs rock or Rey vs Heel rock or Lesnar vs anyone


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Punk needs to be built up more before he can hang with Rock and Lesnar. Lesnar going on a tear and becoming champion before facing Rock and dropping the belt is money, they'd be crazy to waste the opportunity and if they could work it right, Brock beating Punk, Rock beating Brock and then Punk beating Rock could be a hell of an arc. Lesnar and Rock is without doubt the biggest drawing match they have, as an actual match they'd have to have a monumental effort to reach their Summerslam 2002 match given how Rock looked at Mania as well as Brock's health issues. Still they have to build a new star out of this and it only makes sense to put on the biggest matches to draw the viewers in and then work on making guys like Punk more popular within the mainstream viewership and try and have him come out of the entire thing the champion and future of the business.

Rock v Punk at this point in time wouldn't work, match would only really work if Punk went heel since he could structure the match around Rock's current physique and stamina issues, but longterm Punk going heel doesn't work. And a face/face match between them would suck at this stage, Punk really hasn't found a natural groove as a face worker except when he's facing someone like Henry or Bryan and there's no way they could get a good match out of the situation, especially if Cena of all people could only drag an ok workrate match out of 2012 Rock.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

If WWE had a good year all round I don't see why Brock wouldn't extend his contract. Granted might take a few months back and granted he is well enough to keep competing in a years time, he won't be doing anything else and he can't return to UFC because his injury has made him shite.

Meltzer rating are what you would expect, was never going to give that match the full 5.

WWE DVDs take a month or so later in UK over US because of importing the goods and whatnot.

I have every Taker/Trips match 17, 27 and 28 match at ****1/4.

Don't people think that Trips and Taker are done? End of an era and all? I can't see them coming back, well not Trips anyway, there is no need although he would bulk up the roster.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I could see him coming back down the line in a non wrestling role, which really is for the best. I mean his 2000 and 2005 are largely great and he's got the odd good/great performance in a lot of years, but I really think its about time he called it a day in the ring. Taker could be done but I dunno, I always saw WWE hyping the fuck out of his retirement, i.e the ultimate videeo packagaes, highlight reels and then some dramatic ending where he's carried away by Druids or some gothic/eerie act we've come to associate with The Deadman character. Somehow him having the quiet Austin retirement where they don't actually reference him being done just doesn't sound how WWE would end his career.

I've still not even grasped what this era is that's ending? The attitude era wrestlers? The era of two men who in the words of HHH 'are far and beyond the other guys in the back'? I mean they've never even talked about what Era supposedly ended that night at all.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Segunda Caida said:


> I could see him coming back down the line in a non wrestling role, which really is for the best. I mean his 2000 and 2005 are largely great and he's got the odd good/great performance in a lot of years, but I really think its about time he called it a day in the ring. Taker could be done but I dunno, I always saw WWE hyping the fuck out of his retirement, i.e the ultimate videeo packagaes, highlight reels and then some dramatic ending where he's carried away by Druids or some gothic/eerie act we've come to associate with The Deadman character. Somehow him having the quiet Austin retirement where they don't actually reference him being done just doesn't sound how WWE would end his career.
> 
> I've still not even grasped what this era is that's ending? The attitude era wrestlers? The era of two men who in the words of HHH 'are far and beyond the other guys in the back'? I mean they've never even talked about what Era supposedly ended that night at all.


I took it as the last big Attitude era match that could happen.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

Taker / Jericho is the only Wrestlemainia match that would work at this point as far as the streak goes. 

Taker / Lesnar would be interesting only because there is legit heat between them, other than that, I see no reason for them to match up.

There really is nobody else I can think of to face Taker at Wrestlemainia and it topping the last 5 years as far as anticipation and quality goes. I also think they really want to take care of Taker and wont want to risk any of the younger guys potentially hurting him. I know that Taker can get a decent match out of anyone these days, but for someone who is coming to the end of his career, you dont want one of your biggest Wrestlemania draws of the last few years gone before he needs to through injury.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Extreme Rules 2011

Orton/Punk - ****
Kofi/Sheamus - ***1/4 (Kofi's legdrop on Sheamus is insane. Never realized it)
Cole/Swagger vs JR/Lawler - DUD
Mysterio/Rhodes - ***1/2
Layla/McCool - ** (Not even bad.)
Christian/Del Rio - ****1/4
Show/Kane vs Barrett/Zeke - *
Cena/Miz/Morrison - ***1/2

Fucking great show. (Y)


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

Boonage McBoon said:


> Taker / Jericho is the only Wrestlemainia match that would work at this point as far as the streak goes.
> 
> Taker / Lesnar would be interesting only because there is legit heat between them, other than that, I see no reason for them to match up.


The large amount it would draw. I don't think Jericho and Taker will ever have a match at Wrestlemania mainly because it wouldn't draw.


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

I hope it's not against the rules for me to post this year, but just wanted to make whoever I can aware that I'm selling the following on eBay:

*WWE WrestleMania XX*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130677246926?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*WWE WrestleMania 22*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130677254675?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ECW One Night Stand 2005*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130677257782?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


And here's where you can find other stuff I have to offer: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/529232-official-indy-dvd-thread-544.html#post11267658


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Anyone find it funny that The Miz is undefeated at Wrestlemania(3-0). Miz/Show vs Truth/Morrison WM 26, Miz/Cena WM 27, and now the tag team match at WM 28.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

^ Do they not count the Miz/Morrison vs Primo/Carlito pre-show match? I would assume they don't and that's pretty interesting.

Random match:

Hardys vs Murdoch/Cade - Backlash 2007 - ****


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

King_Kool-Aid™ said:


> The large amount it would draw. I don't think Jericho and Taker will ever have a match at Wrestlemania mainly because it wouldn't draw.


I disagree. You're basically saying that Jericho and Taker arent capable of hyping a match when -

1 - Jericho basically had all WWE fans in the palm of his hands for 3 weeks without even saying a word.
2 - As soon as the Wrestlemania hype starts, peoples first port of call is 'Who is going to end the streak?'.

They are both proven draws. Jericho is the only one (who I can think of) who can possibly make a match between himself and Taker seem credible and somehwat justified.


----------



## DarloKid (Jan 7, 2012)

Brye said:


> ^ Do they not count the Miz/Morrison vs Primo/Carlito pre-show match? I would assume they don't and that's pretty interesting.
> 
> Random match:
> 
> Hardys vs Murdoch/Cade - Backlash 2007 - ****




i also thought murdoch and cade were a solid team. What Murdoch doing nowadays


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jericho isn't a big draw. Never has been.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Segunda Caida said:


> Oh shit just remembered another dream match, Mysterio v Bryan . Make it fucking happen asap whilst Bryan's heel WWE.


How long are we thinking Rey has left? There's still a bunch of matches I want him to do on PPV and I'm worried most won't happen. They may well hold off Rey/Sin Cara til next year's WM (other option I see is SummerSlam but it may be too soon for Sin Cara's injury) and Bryan/Rey has a chance of happening this year..depending on the draft and if they decide to bury Bryan for eternity. The Trips match I don't think will happen unfortunately, and I really wanted HBK/Rey on PPV but that's obviously not going to happen. Heck I wanted a Rey/Cena match on PPV  



Boonage McBoon said:


> Taker / Jericho is the only Wrestlemainia match that would work at this point as far as the streak goes.


I don't follow. If you mean match quality than yeah, perhaps. But Jericho wouldn't have an ounce of credibility going for it considering he likes to job so much. Absolutely no-one is going to buy him being a possible victor.



Sparta101 said:


> Anyone find it funny that The Miz is undefeated at Wrestlemania(3-0). Miz/Show vs Truth/Morrison WM 26, Miz/Cena WM 27, and now the tag team match at WM 28.


He's undefeated but I can't really call it a streak because of the double count out with Cena before Rock restarted the match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rey/Cena on PPV was always a dream, luckily the Raw match from August got enough time to reaffirm our belief it would kick ass as much as it did. A crying shame if they never get a full PPV match, but I'll take what I can.

I'm actually reasonably confident Bryan is going to be ok, hopefully he exercises his rematch clause soon and then ultimately moves to Raw. Although is there even a draft now? I mean Del Rio was on Raw but is now challenging Sheamus and Henry got a Raw title match despite being on the Smackdown Roster. Now that Ace runs both shows I'm not sure if they'll just do away with the brand split, otherwise I can't explain how Del Rio and Henry essentially switched brands without any explanation, although let's put nothing past WWE creative.

Also Jericho/Taker would be awful, Jericho can make feuds work but there's not a chance in hell he comes close to giving Taker as good a match as he had at Wrestlemania 26 and nobody would buy Jericho as being able to do what HHH and HBK couldn't. It would make a good feud for somewhere like Summerslam, but at this stage its Cena or bust regarding the Streak. He's the only realistic big name people could be buy ending the Streak, especially if they tied it into Cena having to prove to himself he still has 'it' after losing to Miz, Punk, Rock and potentially Lesnar.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I hate the idea that Triple H and Taker are the last of the attitude era.

Theyre not. And their matches arent attitude era style matches. Theyre like a 5 billion times better

What Triple H and Taker truly represent is the end of the old school territory wrasslers


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> I hate the idea that Triple H and Taker are the last of the attitude era.
> 
> Theyre not. And their matches arent attitude era style matches. Theyre like a 5 billion times better


Please tell me what matches you are referring to, as last weekend is CLEARLY not one of them.

Also, I like the idea of the Rumble winner going after something besides the belt perhaps, but I don't see the Streak as that special anymore either.

Also, responses to things posted specifically to/about me...

1] What makes me say the wrestling in the HIAC was bad? The fact I have eyes & a brain, & they all work.

2] No, it doesn't take a genius to say/see what I posted, but maybe my intelligence seems that way from the point you re looking at it from.

--Oh, & I just thought of this: I would probably mark out if Rock won the belt again, but I have no interest in either him or Brock defending it at a PPV, let alone against each other.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

What Taker and Triple H did last weekend is basically better than every match from 1998 to 1999 combined


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> What Taker and Triple H did last weekend is basically better than every match from 1998 to 1999 combined


As the posts by many show, many people feel this way.... While the (correct) others feel quite the opposite.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Please elaborate


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rey can't have THAT much time left so I would be hugely disappointing if they wasted him on Sin Cara.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Lesnar vs Rey and Rey vs Danielson need to happen


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> Please elaborate


Some have one opinion, others have the other. Posts from both have gone on for almost a week. If you need either side explained, read previous posts. No need for me to repeat myself yet again (dig the redundancy of that!), let alone to try to explain an opinion I've never had.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> Lesnar vs Rey and Rey vs Danielson need to happen


The latter might be nice if we could see Rey anywhere near the top of his game. No need to put him against Brock, especially while he works on borrowed time.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> Some have one opinion, others have the other. Posts from both have gone on for almost a week. If you need either side explained, read previous posts. No need for me to repeat myself yet again (dig the redundancy of that!), let alone to try to explain an opinion I've never had.


i read your posts.

why is taker vs triple H not better than every match from 1998 to 1999?



TJChurch said:


> The latter might be nice if we could see Rey anywhere near the top of his game. No need to put him against Brock, especially while he works on borrowed time.


When rey got last injured, he was the best wrestler in the company.
I think we'll be fine


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rey was fucking awesome in 2011 and Taker/Trips was better than 95% or more of the time period redeadening mentioned, imo.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> i read your posts.


Then I need not repeat myself.



redeadening said:


> why is taker vs triple H not better than every match from 1998 to 1999?


Because some during that time were better.




redeadening said:


> When rey got last injured, he was the best wrestler in the company.
> I think we'll be fine


If one of those is true, the other automatically is. But since clearly our opinions differ much on many things, we can't be sure either is.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Brye said:


> Rey was fucking awesome in 2011 and Taker/Trips was better than 95% or more of the time period redeadening mentioned, imo.


Thank you so much for adding your *opinion*.

I know there have been some, but I honestly can't recall the last stretch of Rey matches where I didn't like at least one of them.

The same can be said for stretches of that HIAC & finding times I did like.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJ, ive had conversations with brick walls where I got more of a response. atleast there I had the faint echo of my voice

You are like the jeff jarrett of this thread


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> TJ, ive had conversations with brick walls where I got more of a response. atleast there I had the faint echo of my voice
> 
> You are like the jeff jarrett of this thread


I am sure you've had longer conversations with brick walls, as even they are smarter & needed to explain things to you. (Except perhaps, the one with the letters of the alphabet written-out.)

I guess I should just consider your name, & not be surprised you are obviously brain-dead.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJ, you seem obsessed with the concept of 'YOUR OPINION' and defending it in a pretentious way, yet at no point actually elaborating upon it, or explaining why you believe it to be true

i mean hell, austin101 called nancy a bitch, but atleast he explained his opinions


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> TJ, you seem obsessed with the concept of 'YOUR OPINION' and defending it in a pretentious way, yet at no point actually elaborating upon it, or explaining why you believe it to be true
> 
> i mean hell, austin101 called nancy a bitch, but atleast he explained his opinions


I am not obsessed with anything, nor am I the least bit pretentious.

I have stated & explained my opinion. Also, others who share my opinions have also given reasons. You claim to have read these posts, & yet deny to know what they said.

it seems to me you are just one of many to join the popular action here of attacking me, without reason.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Your signature says the following



> *Perhaps the least-well-liked member on these forums. I'm cool with that; *Few true geniuses are appreciated in their lifetimes.*


And you claim not to be pretentious?

Explain, why do you think Rey isnt a great worker anymore and why you believe that Taker vs Hunter isnt better than the majority of the 1998 to 1999 matches. Thats all I ask


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> Your signature says the following
> 
> 
> 
> And you claim not to be pretentious?


I know quite well what my signature says, as I wrote it. I don't claim to be any more or less than what I am, unlike some here.





redeadening said:


> Explain, why do you think Rey isnt a great worker anymore and why you believe that Taker vs Hunter isnt better than the majority of the 1998 to 1999 matches. Thats all I ask


I won't say how good of a worker Rey is now, but I will say he is not near 100% now, & I have a doubt that any amount of recovery time will get him there.

As for the HIAC, there were SEVERAL runs of horrible physicality in that match (or at the very least, nowhere near the "Match of the Night" some found it to be). While I can't say some during the time you allude to were not that bad, I have little doubt MANY were better.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Which matches from that time would you find better? Most were simply out of control and unsatisfying brawls involving weak wrestlers. Only tandout match in my mind is Taker vs Kane


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> Which matches from that time would you find better? Most were simply out of control and unsatisfying brawls involving weak wrestlers. Only tandout match in my mind is Taker vs Kane


I thought this was obvious in my previous posts, but I do not have a specific memory of any matches during that time period for many/all of any number of reasons.

That is why I said I could not surely doubt the existence of some bad matches, but also doubted there were some that were grand, at least compared to the match this past weekend you are asking them to be compared to.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I can see why you're so popular around here


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> I can see why you're so popular around here


I'm popular to people who are smart enough to understand what I say (& choose not to pretend otherwise), as well as those who just need a villain, someone to hate, someone to argue with, etc.

But remember: Bruce Wayne was just a rich guy... You often hear the word "genius" paired with "evil".


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This almost feels like gimmick posting. 

That being said, just watched:

Del Rio vs Mysterio vs Punk - June '11 - ***3/4
Mysterio/Riley vs Swagger/Miz - ****
Mysterio vs Cena - ***1/2

Best matches of Raw in '11, or at least some of them. Need to watch Dolph/Bryan/Rhodes/Ryder again.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Brye said:


> This almost feels like gimmick posting.
> 
> That being said, just watched:
> 
> ...


Really?! Are you the least bit masochistic?!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TJChurch said:


> Really?! Are you the least bit masochistic?!


You probably shouldn't post in here unless you make an attempt not to get under everyones skin. Consider this a warning.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Brye said:


> You probably shouldn't post in here unless you make an attempt not to get under everyones skin. Consider this a warning.


I'm not going to try to not get under anyone's skin... I never try to, & it happens anyway. As I said before, it seems sometimes members are looking for people to argue with/hate, or to "hear" themselves "talk", etc...

I don't see how any of that is my fault.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Prefer a good amount of 98-99 WWF over Trip/Taker. No idea how it's even close to something like Austin/Dude Love. And the special guest ref didn't suck in that. ;D

WM27 HHH/Taker is a different story, but there's still some 98-99 (maybe not 99, actually- would have hit up some of the Rock/Foleys again) WWF I think is better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> Also Jericho/Taker would be awful, Jericho can make feuds work but there's not a chance in hell he comes close to giving Taker as good a match as he had at Wrestlemania 26 and nobody would buy Jericho as being able to do what HHH and HBK couldn't. It would make a good feud for somewhere like Summerslam, but at this stage its Cena or bust regarding the Streak. He's the only realistic big name people could be buy ending the Streak, especially if they tied it into Cena having to prove to himself he still has 'it' after losing to Miz, Punk, Rock and potentially Lesnar.


This.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

That is exactly the reason why I want Jericho/Undertaker. The Streak has become a "super phenomenon" now. It would be nice if it returned back to normal and Undertaker deserves a "cool down" match at WrestleMania. Jericho is the best candidate to give Undertaker that "cool down" bout.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Some srs ratings. Probably.

Rock/Austin
X-Seven: *****1/2*
XIX: *****3/4*

Michaels/Undertaker
XXV: *****3/4*
XXVI: *******

Undertaker/Triple H
XXVII: *****1/2*
XXVIII: *****3/4*


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Some srs ratings. Probably.
> 
> Rock/Austin
> X-Seven: *****1/2*
> ...


Probably what I'd give. Except Rock vs Austin WM 19, kinda iffy in that match

So come on guys, i always hear Taker vs triple H being called an end of the attitude era match, problem is, I disagree, i consider it more of a territory style match. What do you think?

And as for 1998 to 1999, which are the matches that might beat it?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think it was even close to a territory match and those two were never territory wrestlers. I didn't think it was an attitude era match either. 

98-99 isn't a terribly good time for WWF's in ring product, but I didn't think Taker v HHH was very good anyway so I'm betting there are tv matches I can go out and find that I'd say were definitely better. In absolutely honesty, I wouldn't say the match was better than like, three stars. I haven't bothered watching a ton of 98-99 WWF in a while, but there's at least two or three Rock/Foleys I like more (Valentine's Day, Rumble, Ladder match on Raw), Austin/Rock from Backlash, Austin/Taker first blood, Austin/Foley/HHH from SummerSlam, and if I'm remembering it right, Rock/Taker from KOTR. Hell, as much as I don't love ladder matches, I like the No Mercy tag more than Taker v Trip. I can't say I'll think this is all better for sure, but on last watch of each of them I got more from them than my watch of Trip/Taker. And that's only 1999. 98 has more ***+ than 99 (which isn't much anyway). If we're springing outside WWF then there's a BATCH of stuff I wouldn't let Taker/Trip touch with a ten foot pole. I think I could come up with ten matches from 1999 WCW alone I thought was better than it.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Your opinion doesnt count at this instance yeah1993, you clearly hate that match because it discriminates against your people


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Austin/Dude Love Over The Edge is definitely above Taker/HHH, hell based on personal enjoyment and lack of flaws I might go CRAIG CRAZY~ and put Vader/Shamrock above the HIAC. Cos I'm CRAZY~ ya know?

Haven't really watched enough 1998-1999 WWF in a long time to really give a complete list, but I can definitely see a few matches being better than the Cell to me, though there's only one way to find out and right now I'm not exactly hyped to check out 1998 and 1999 WWF. Actually potentially I might put Taker/Kane WM14 above the Cell, based soley on the wonderful execution of the story they were trying to project.

I think at this stage I might have WM19>WM17 for Austin/Rock, I don't think anything is better in the WM19 match than Austin's character performance in Texas, such a wonderful exhibition of storytelling and selling of a match through nothing more than facial expressions and mannerisms. I enjoy Rock 'having' to win at WM19 and seeing the fight Austin puts up on top of his health issues definitely hooks me into the match a lot more on an emotional level rather than when I watched it live oblivious to what Austin was going through, and over time the WM17 really doesn't hold up in terms of a brilliant brawl. Its got a great pace to it and Austin might put in the best Wrestlemania performance in it, but Rock was essentially just there to add to the story of Austin doubting himself and some of the sequences don't blow me away like they used to.

Agreed with *Hohenheim* on Michaels/Taker WM26>WM25 as well. Just brilliant storytelling and callback spots to matches as far back as 2006 (Hells Gate counter utilised by Angle at NWO). Felt like the true definition of WWE Main Event Wrestling only with a more simple and well executed story with two brilliant dynamic characters and even the closest thing to a botch (moonsault through announce table) actually added to the story within the match rather than making for an awkward moment which disrupted the flow of the match. Plus the finish is without doubt the best of the match finishes from WM24-28, though I wouldn't object to people preferring Flair/Michaels as a match finish.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redeadening said:


> Your opinion doesnt count at this instance yeah1993, you clearly hate that match because it discriminates against your people


Australians? Theists? PEOPLE WITH QUASI-AFROS B/C TAKER WAS BALD????

Or maybe it's because there was real emotion in the match and I am completely devoid of anything nice-spirited.  Hey look, a puppy. 

I'm a Kaientai fan. I have to be evil.

EDIT: Vader/Shamrock from A Cold Day in Hell, Steffan? There wasn't a moment in Trip/Taker where I'd even consider CONSIDERING putting it on Vader/Shamrock's level.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker was kinda a territory guy. For a couple of years, anyway. WCCW, then Memphis, then UWF, and he spent a little time in Japan too between his WCW and WWF runs.

But I don't really think the end of an era match was talking about an actual era of wrestling, more of an era of wrestlers like them. Lets face it, we aren't going to see a match like THAT again for a long time because there just isn't anyone left to do it. We can still get "big" matches with great atmospheres from some of the current guys (Cena/Punk already did it, and with Lesnar back he'll no doubt do it with a few people), but we aren't going to get another huge match with such emotion and storytelling quite like Undertaker/HHH/HBK because there really were on a whole other level to everyone else; at least perception wise (HHH... Undertaker imo literally IS on a whole other level, HBK as a performer maybe), and its going to take quite a few years yet to built up guys to be on THAT kind of level to have those kind of matches. That's my personal take on the whole thing anyway.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rock NEEDS to put somebody over now. He just came in and went over the #1 guy. Time to make a new #1 guy (at least a semi #1 to share the spot with Cena). I think CM Punk is the only candidate b/c seriously, who else is big enough?

I don't think I'd mind Brock beating Punk, Rock beating Brock and Punk beating Rock to circle the title back onto Punk but that's about 2 years WWE title matches right there between those three and I don't see WWE being able to keep themselves from hotshotting it to someone random.

If Undertaker's coming back, then Cena is pretty much the way to go. Yes, it'll probably end with Cena losing 3 WrestleMania matches in a row but what the heck? His credibility ain't going anywhere. Hopefully by WrestleMania 30, WWE will have someone else huge to face the Undertaker at Mania.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

So the guy are saying its 'unrealistic' for anyone to beat Lesnar because of his size

opinions on that?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT: Vader/Shamrock from A Cold Day in Hell, Steffan? There wasn't a moment in Trip/Taker where I'd even consider CONSIDERING putting it on Vader/Shamrock's level.


Yeah that be the match, not seen it in ages but THOSE PUNCHES.


Edit: @Redeadening, nah not buying that. He's only going to lose to maybe one person in this comeback but it'll be too preserve his star power and sell Wrestlemania. I mean he's dropped a good 30 pounds in MMA to concentrate on building pure muscle rather than the awe inspring physique he had in WWE so size shouldn't be an issue. Its just a case of ensuring his starpower isn't minimalised and as a result they can only afford one loss to ensure people want to pay to see him on the Biggest stage in Wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Big Show should be undefeated, right?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Well, Rock lost three cosecutive 'Mania main events in 1999, 2000, and 2001 so it's not a big deal if Cena loses to Undertaker or whomever next year at WrestleMania. Triple H lost three years in a row too: Benoit, Batista, and Cena. Turns out, it might actually be a good thing.

On Rock/Austin from XIX, I adore that match. It's my favorite match from that night.

I don't understand how anybody would consider Hunter/Undertaker matches being Attitude Era-esque. It's a professional wrestling match and that's that. I'm with redead here. Heck, Hunter/Foley from the Rumble '00 is from the Attitude Era and that match isn't an AE match. Undertaker/Hunter matches (both) not only walk over matches from 98/99 but most matches from the 90s and the past decade.

As I've stated before, Undertaker's matches at WrestleMania 26 and 27 are 5-stars for me.


Edit:

Just realized, the Undertaker has beaten all of Evolution at WrestleMania, and the two members of DX.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/breaking-new-wwe-undertaker-streak-dvd-blu-ray-for-2012/22617/

Well, this would be slightly embarrassing for that guy who said they didn't think a 20-0 Streak DVD/Bluray would be released :side:.

I'll be buying it. Hell, I own that shitty 15-0 DVD which has like, 2 full matches or something? Will be awesome to own all Undertaker's WM matches in Bluray quality. ARN SPINEBUSTER IN HD? FUCK YES.

EDIT:

Also, I was sad enough to add up the length of all his WM matches, and it comes to 5 hours 20 minutes (roughly). Add as much as an extra 2 hours for build up videos and entrances and that’s only 7 hours 20 minutes; 3 DVD’s and 2 Bluray discs are more than enough to fit everything on!


----------



## Rickeey (Jan 5, 2011)

*Paul London vs. Akio Series*
Veloctiy 11/30/04 ***1/2

Velocity 01/11/05 ***1/2

Velocity 02/05/05 ***3/4

Velocity 03/08/05 ***1/4

Tremendous little series of matches considering they’re all 10 minutes and under. 
The first match is most notably known for London landing badly on his head, but he soldiered on and finished the match as if nothing had happened. There’s just an insane amount of stiff kicks and punches mixed with high-flying manoeuvres and its stuff like that which really sets these matches apart. The second match continued the trend of crazy bumps with London landing badly after a belly-to-belly into the turnbuckle. This one featured a little more action but was just as good as the first one really. The third match was special since it was actually in Japan and both guys have history with Japanese promotions. There’s yet another bad bump from London on the steps, the guy isn’t right in the head at all. The Japanese crowd are as respectful as ever and pop hard at the right times. You’d think they’d never ever heard of a 450-Splash judging by the reaction it got. It’s the best of the bunch in my eyes. The fourth match is a #1 contender’s match for the Cruiserweight Title and for some reason, I just couldn’t get into it as much as the others. Sure there’s the hard-hitting and high-flying along but something irked me. Akio was working over London’s leg for a good portion of time and London’s still able to hop up in the air and hit his usual shtick. I felt it was really just crying out for London to do something different. Even still, it contributes to this great mini-series. It was interesting to note that after one match, the next one always got more time, as if WWE were giving them a little more room to breathe and apply their craft.It’s a real shame the Cruiserweight division went to shit.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Holy crap, I just realised what happened last sunday was a slightly less stupid version of Wrestlemania 9


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Is the Shawn Michaels: My Journey dvd good? I am gonna buy it but want some brief opinions on the quality.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit (Smackdown, 5/31/01) ****1/2

Top 5 maybe even top 3 smackdown match of all time, SO AWESOME and the announcers table spot gets me every time.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I like the neverending suplex more. Austin sold it like a champ


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Some srs ratings. Probably.
> 
> Rock/Austin
> X-Seven: *****1/2*
> ...


Those are some srs ratings... mine are SRS!!!11111 though...

Rock/Austin:
WM17- *****
WM19- ****1/2

Taker/HBK:
WM25- *****
WM26- ****1/2

Taker/HHH:
WM17: ****
WM27- ***1/2
WM28- ****

I've said all I've had to say on Taker/HHH's matches among many threads in the past year, but if you loved the WM27 match, I can see why you'd love the WM28 match. I'm just not a fan of the heavy drama/story matches Taker/HHH have. I like their WM17 match the most, though when I take everything into account, I'd have to give the WM28 cell match the nod as the best of the bunch taking everything into account. As for Taker/HBK, always will prefer the Mania 25 match over 26. They're both awesome for completely different reasons, but Mania 25 felt more like a spectacle, a clash of two of the best of all time, and had a fantastic wrestling match, where 26 was an excellent match as well where they had a great workrate, great psychology and storytelling, and a fantastic finish. But the WM26 match just doesn't have the same special feel to me that you get from the WM25 match, or matches like Hogan/Rock and Cena/Rock... but otherwise the storytelling and psychology was definitely better in the WM26 match. I just prefer WM25's workrate, wrestling, action, crowd, and as I said overall feel to it.

Actually, those are very much my same thoughts for Rock/Austin WM17 and WM19 (with 17 similar to 25 and 19 similar to 26).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why not:

Rock/Austin
X-Seven: ****1/2
XIX: ****1/2 (better match)

Michaels/Undertaker
XXV: *****
XXVI: ***** (better match)

Undertaker/Triple H
XXVII: ****3/4
XXVIII: ****3/4 (better match)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone else remember the Trent Barretta/Curt Hawkins series on Superstars from last year (or was it the year before). They weren't anything spectacular but they were pretty fun to watch and were easily in the ***1/2-***3/4 range.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I refuse to watch Superstars. After they fired Masters I just didn't give a shit about the show. Hell, I honestly thought it had been cancelled until like, 2 days ago . Been so long since I've watched it that I just forgot about it.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I refuse to watch Superstars. After they fired Masters I just didn't give a shit about the show. Hell, I honestly thought it had been cancelled until like, 2 days ago . Been so long since I've watched it that I just forgot about it.


You should with talents like Tyson Kidd, Hunico, Tyler Reks, Curt Hawkins, Usos. There are some real gems on Superstars sometimes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can't bring myself to watch it because I just don't care about a single one of those guys lol .


----------



## LOU (Jul 28, 2006)

Can someone give me the best ppv matches from 2011?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I can't bring myself to watch it because I just don't care about a single one of those guys lol .


But the quality of wrestling is good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Maybe so, but its still hard to watch even solid matches when I just don't care about the guys involved in the slightest.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Anyone else remember the Trent Barretta/Curt Hawkins series on Superstars from last year (or was it the year before). They weren't anything spectacular but they were pretty fun to watch and were easily in the ***1/2-***3/4 range.


Yeah they were very good, felt like each match played off of the last and they worked some nice callback spots in amongst Trent bumping like a maniac. Deserved to get onto Smackdown for the series ender but alas, not to be.

Superstars isn't the same though, Masters had the TV formula down to a tee and between Bourne getting injured and Drew now being off the show they're relying on Hunico and a couple of others to fill the void. And I'm sorry but Kidd as good as he is at working sprints and dynamic sequences isn't half the worker Masters is. The match between Hunico and Kidd last week was decent but I know Masters would have got a better match out of Hunico.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

LOU said:


> Can someone give me the best ppv matches from 2011?


My MOTN's for each PPV: 

RR- Edge vs. Ziggler (****)
EC- WHC Elimination Chamber (****1/4)
WM27- Punk vs. Orton (***1/2) (Though the overwhelming majority will say Taker/HHH WM27... which I do have at ***1/2 myself and wouldn't argue it being called MOTN)
ER- Christian vs. Del Rio (****)
OTL- Orton vs. Christian (****1/2)
CP- Orton vs. Christian (***3/4)
MITB- Punk vs. Cena (****1/2) (MOTY for me)
Summerslam- Orton vs. Christian (****1/4)
NoC- Ziggler vs. Swagger vs. Riley vs. Morrison (***1/2)
HIAC- Punk vs. Cena vs. Del Rio (***1/2)
Vengeance- Cena vs. Del Rio (***1/2) (If you're looking for the best Henry/Show match, it's at this event)
SVS- Punk vs. Del Rio (***3/4)
TLC- Punk vs. Miz vs. Del Rio (***3/4)

... damn, Del Rio is in four MOTN's in a row (five in total for the year)... yet I still don't like the guy. 


Edit: Can anyone post the best Chris Masters' Superstars matches? Ironically enough I was a fan of the guy in 2005-2006 back when he sucked in the ring, wasn't very good on the mic, and lacked charisma, crowd reactions, etc. Don't know why, but I figure if I was a fan back then, I should be interested in his work on Superstars where people are saying he's great. Pretty sure I saw a match between him and Drew that was great, but I'd love to see some more if anyone wants to post some videos.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Masters v Mcintyre August 2010 and May 2011 are his two best, I'd go **** for both with the May match being the best.

He has a ton of good-great matches against the likes of Chavo, Gallows, Reks and Ziggler. Back in 2010 they seemed to blend together but he always gave great performances in matches even if say the match rating would struggle to be above ***, he never gave a bad performance from memory from 2010 through to his release.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dolph Ziggler Vs Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 13/05/2010 
Chavo Guerrero Vs Primo Vs Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 28/01/2010
Drew McIntyre Vs Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 26/08/2010

Had some random 2010 match ratings in a text document, these were the Masters matches in it. There are more, but I'm so lazy when it comes to keeping track of up to date stuff .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - Raw 1/30/12
-- Exactly what you'd expect from arguably the two best workers in the company. Well structured, nice blend of hard-hitting physicality and clean technical wrestling, good limb work from Bryan (who looked like a fuckin champ in this match) and equally good selling from Punk (loved that he switched arms to deliver the bulldog). Just a really strong TV match up before the Jericho interference. The commentators hyped up the fact that Punk and Bryan were trying to prove who the best in the world really is and the way they worked this match legitimately made me think yeah these two guys could very well be the best, unlike when they try to put over Cena and Orton like that. 

***1/2

CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - SmackDown 2/21/12
-- You can't go wrong with these two. Didn't have the same heat as the previous match but they made up for that in other areas. Really good focused limb work from Bryan and excellent selling of the arm by Punk once again. I was fine with the two restarts and the inconclusive finish. Didn't love it but it didn't bother me either. It's actually good that the Raw match had a non-finish and this one was overbooked. Save their best match for PPV. That said this was still strong. Lots of nifty stuff, great selling from Punk, and Bryan looked like a million bucks.

***1/2

CM Punk v Mark Henry - Raw 4/2/12
-- All things considered this was perfectly worked. It's not a MOTYC in my mind but they couldn't have put together a better match considering the time it got and the directions they want both guys to go in. Henry looked like a monster talking trash, dominating, and cutting off Punk at every turn. Punk did a great job selling that his championship was in jeopardy and put up a spirited fight with great flurries (made even better by the crowd) and a couple neat desperation spots (really liked the DDT counter to the bear hug). Would've liked a close nearfall or two against Punk before the countout finish to get the crowd really thinking that it might be Henry's night but can't blame them for that. Would love to see a longer version of this on PPV.

***1/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I keep hearing about how great Masters was on Superstars, but damn was he that good that he and McIntyre of all people could pull off **** matches? Those two combined just sound like a recipe for disaster. Masters just seemed to so bland on his return to the WWE that I just never gave a crap bout him.

@Ownage CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan from Smackdown is definitely my WWE MOTY thus far. I give it ****. Just amazing storytelling. I didn't mind the swerves one damn bit, to me it added more excitement to the match especially the finish. It really solidified both men extremely well and both of them came out looking stronger than ever. That is a true and rare case of building a wrestler with just the match alone.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Masters became a really good worker upon return and Drew has always been pretty good in the ring. I haven't watched that match in a while but it's realyl enjoyable.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I keep hearing about how great Masters was on Superstars, but damn was he that good that he and McIntyre of all people could pull off **** matches? Those two combined just sound like a recipe for disaster. Masters just seemed to so bland on his return to the WWE that I just never gave a crap bout him.


DA HELL?

Masters was amazing from 2010-2011, everything you say you want in a match he did to perfection, story, selling, build, structure etc. Mcintyre is brilliant in the ring as well, creative, violent, stiff, focused, bumps and sells well, builds to his bumping spots like a trooper and knows how to create an engaging workover.

Superstars, August 2010











Superstars, May 2011







WATCH THEM AND BASK IN THEIR GLORY. There's also a fabulous callback spot in the 2011 match to a Smackdown match in February from the same year, the sitout powerbomb esque spot. 

2011 match is the better one of the two btw.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Any thoughts on Lesnar/Angle from WM 19?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Sparta101 said:


> Any thoughts on Lesnar/Angle from WM 19?


Been a while since I've seen it but from what I recall I liked it. Then again, those were the days when I thought Angle was GOAT, so....

@Segunda, thanks man. I'll watch those matches when I'm in the modd for some wrestling which is probably when I got tired of talking about it. That's my life for ya. Talk about wrestling, then watch it. Yeah, it's that boring and shows how much I got nothing to do with my life.

Oh and I never meant McIntyre was a bad worker, it's just that he has a bland persoanlity and usually when someone has a bland personality I don't care for their matches. Which is why I neve really cared bout Masters when he returned to the WWE.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I know I will be in the vast minority but I just watched HIAC and I think ADR/Cena/Punk is a better HIAC match than Triple H/Taker. They use the Cell a lot more and involve more weapons. I gave the triple threat **** and have Triple H/Taker at ***3/4 and it could move down after another viewing.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Been a while since I've seen it but from what I recall I liked it. Then again, those were the days when I thought Angle was GOAT, so....
> 
> @Segunda, thanks man. I'll watch those matches when I'm in the modd for some wrestling which is probably when I got tired of talking about it. That's my life for ya. Talk about wrestling, then watch it. Yeah, it's that boring and shows how much I got nothing to do with my life.
> 
> Oh and I never meant McIntyre was a bad worker, it's just that he has a bland persoanlity and usually when someone has a bland personality I don't care for their matches. Which is why I neve really cared bout Masters when he returned to the WWE.


That's fair enough, Mcintyre is getting better at injecting some personality into his matches beyond vicious killer. He does this awesome dropkick-kip up combo in the 2011 match and pulls this awesome shit eating grin to taunt the audience that he's the best thing since sliced bread. Was timed really well too in the match rather than feeling tacked on.

As for Angle/Lesnar, not seen their matches in forever but I'm sure I always had Mania as the lowest of their series and the SD Ironman as the best. Summerslam was really great in parts too IIRC, Lesnar selling the legwork right through into the F5 was superb if somewhat terrifying that he could have dropped Angle and legit fucked him up.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Just finished watching Cena/Brock @ Backlash '03.

Decent match. I remember Brock beating the crap out of Cena in this one but it wasn't even that. Cena had Brock down a pretty good margin of the match plus Brock got busted open.

***


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Rock NEEDS to put somebody over now. He just came in and went over the #1 guy. Time to make a new #1 guy (at least a semi #1 to share the spot with Cena). I think CM Punk is the only candidate b/c seriously, who else is big enough?
> 
> I don't think I'd mind Brock beating Punk, Rock beating Brock and Punk beating Rock to circle the title back onto Punk but that's about 2 years WWE title matches right there between those three and I don't see WWE being able to keep themselves from hotshotting it to someone random.


Agree with all of the above.

That said, is it me, or does it seem like I am going through yet another time of WWE trying to make their "flagship" show look better by killing "Smackdown"?! I missed a few weeks, but read spoilers, & read Drew got threatened & (it seemed) tossed by Long. I tune in, & he's back. (Why?!) Cut to... Long seems to be getting fired, but is given another job, only to never tell us what it is.

Opinion time: Wanna make "Smackdown" better/more-watchable? Now that Bryan has rightfully tossed AJ (thought too kindly, if you ask me), give him the rematch against Sheamus, & give Alberto his earned shot against the return of Champ Daniel "YES" Bryan!


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*SMW 19/5/95 - Texas Death Match* 
Terry Funk & Bob Armstrong vs The Gangstas 
***1/2

*ECW November to Rember 1995*
Cactus Jack & Raven vs Terry Funk & Tommy Dreamer
***3/4

*Canada - 15/12/95*
Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Bruce Hart & Brian Pillman 
***1/2


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Dark Church said:


> I know I will be in the vast minority but I just watched HIAC and I think ADR/Cena/Punk is a better HIAC match than Triple H/Taker. They use the Cell a lot more and involve more weapons. I gave the triple threat **** and have Triple H/Taker at ***3/4 and it could move down after another viewing.


the HIAC for HHH/Taker was more of a prop, not really a demonic structure to be used as a weapon. It was more to add to the hype of a match and the feel that it really was an "end of an era". Cause you won't see those two or even Shawn at their age and state go climb to the top or do what they did in earlier HIAC matches, it was more a prop for the gimmick itself.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Last time I watched Lesnar/Angle from Mania I just couldn't finish it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked Angle/Lesnar WM match. Been a while since I watched it though. Think their Iron Man smokes it, and SS is a ***** match .


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> I know I will be in the vast minority but I just watched HIAC and I think ADR/Cena/Punk is a better HIAC match than Triple H/Taker. They use the Cell a lot more and involve more weapons. I gave the triple threat **** and have Triple H/Taker at ***3/4 and it could move down after another viewing.


I'm with you on this. I really loved how they wove the cell into the story of the match unlike the 'Mania match. The triple threat may not of had as many big spots as older matches but the psychology was strong enough to make up for it. The same can be said about the TLC with Punk last year.

Punk/Cena/Del Rio HiaC - ***3/4
HHH/Taker HiaC - ***


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

I agree with Dude/Austin from 98 > Hell in a Cell Taker/Triple H


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dude/Austin OTE is awesome, but I'd still put Undertaker/HHH above it. As far as ratings go, its pretty close though. ****3/4 for the HIAC, ****1/2 for DUDE/Austin.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I wouldn't put Dude/Austin anywhere near the HIAC, but it's still awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Jericho/Punk was miles better watching it for the first time on TV. Miles. Great match. I'm just sad I was so out of it in the stadium while it was actually happening lol.


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

I still really liked the Hell in a Cell match, you can't really deny that HBK, Taker and Triple H are the only guys on the roster that can get you emotionally invested in a match.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Jericho/Punk was miles better watching it for the first time on TV. Miles. Great match. I'm just sad I was so out of it in the stadium while it was actually happening lol.


Sounds to me like the matches were radically different TV and in the arena


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've found it to be like that from the couple of TV tapings I've been too. Its MUCH easier imo to appreciate a good/great match when watching it back on TV with the commentary, camera angles etc than it is when you are sitting near the back of the arena . You can still tell if a certain match is good or not mostly, but I can certainly see how being at something like WM and getting completely drained by the likes of Undertaker/HHH would prevent you from being able to pay as much attention to Jericho/Punk as you would like.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

redeadening said:


> Sounds to me like the matches were radically different TV and in the arena


I was so spent from the HIAC that I barely watched Jericho/Punk tbh. I wanted to be interested but I just didn't have the energy. Watching in TV and watching live are 2 completely different experiences.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

Got excited when I saw this week's Superstars had Hunico vs Tyson Kidd, and it didn't disappoint. Fantastic match, up there with Bryan/Regal as the best Superstars matches I've seen. Tyson Kidd is a class above 90% of the workers in the company, and I'm just praying at some point this year he gets a chance to work a PPV match (one-on-one if possible), because this was PPV caliber stuff. Hunico more than does his bit too, even if his promo on the way to the ring was a bit shit.


----------



## FearIs4UP (Apr 8, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Jericho/Punk was miles better watching it for the first time on TV. Miles. Great match. I'm just sad I was so out of it in the stadium while it was actually happening lol.


Exact same feelings for me. I was pretty drunk at that point and the whole atmosphere made it tough to focus on the match. Jericho rules though. Another great WM performance from him.

Where's the best place to find old PPV's from 00-02?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

RobsYourUncle said:


> Got excited when I saw this week's Superstars had Hunico vs Tyson Kidd, and it didn't disappoint. Fantastic match, up there with Bryan/Regal as the best Superstars matches I've seen. Tyson Kidd is a class above 90% of the workers in the company, and I'm just praying at some point this year he gets a chance to work a PPV match (one-on-one if possible), because this was PPV caliber stuff. Hunico more than does his bit too, even if his promo on the way to the ring was a bit shit.


Watched this as well, though I was left with a lesser impression. Commercial break really killed Hunico's heat section which was terrible timing:



> *Hunico v Tyson Kidd, Superstars 04/05/2012
> *
> Opening mat sequences were smooth and I loved the Lucha sequence where Hunico has Kidd in the gory bomb and brings him into a pinning position on the mat and Kidd manages to hook the arms and transition into a sunset flip counter. There was also a nice moonsault armdrag off of the ropes which Hunico sold nicely and it was nice to see him constantly being outmatched in the beginning. Transition spot was nice in the urgency Hunico showed but the commercial kills whatever workover he did as they come back and he's working a nice submission but you're dying to see what he busted out inbetween: they did do a nice spot however where Kidd goes for a sunset flip but the left arm gives out and Hunico immediately goes back to work. Hunico taking taking the Jerry Estrada bump but landing on his feet and then doing some Arn Anderson esque 'you see that shit, I'm too smart to fall on my ass' schtick leading into Kidd sneaking up and hitting a running kick off the apron was super, but the finishing stretch wasn't terribly dramatic bar one sweet counter out of a tilt a whirl. Finish was good in setting up a rematch but I was just wanting Kidd to incorporate more spots around his weakened limb, like he has this set up spot where he's on the ropes, kicks his opponent and backflips onto the apron to set up a springboard....and you're just wanting him to sell that left arm when he's transitioning.
> 
> ...



As for Kidd, he's a better pure wrestler than 90% of the others in the company...but I'm not sold on him yet as anything past 'good' when it comes to being a worker. Hopefully he and Hunico have a rematch in the coming weeks because the potential was there with an actual heat section, the chemistry was apparent and they had some swank sequences but I was left wanting more.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I can't think of comparing any match from 1998 and 1999 to the Hell in a Cell match.

On Angle/Lesnar from 'Mania XIX, it's good, but not on par with their Iron Man Match.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Brock's game plan in the iron man match is amazing.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Damn, that European tour worked wonders for Chris Masters. I just saw the match he had with Drew McIntyre on Superstars 5/12/11 and both men did a great job of putting on a really good match. Really loved the limb work and the way Masters sold it. Masters is a damn good seller alright. The way he sold that punch looked like it legit knocked him out cold. I also like how when Masters did the Soamoan drop instead of getting up one time (as so much guys on the indies do nowadays) he lies down on the floor, selling the leg and gets up really slowly once again SELLING the leg. This was a really a good match and is IMO the way how wrestling matches should be done. Simple but effective moves. Less is more. All the leg work McIntyre did, it was simple leg locks. He didn't use no fancy pretzel like move because it wasn't needed. When he did the figure four around the post it meant so much. I also liked the babyface comeback. I like when they are done in bits. Masters would mount an offense but McIntyre would just attack the leg or the offense mounted put so much strain on Masters' leg that he had to rest for a while. That is what I want in a wrestling match. Take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions. By just exchanging holds or chain wrestling for chain wrestling sake you're not doing that. By randomly putting a guy into some bend up fuck him up submission, it's not doing that. This match also had moments where you thought it was gonna end but it didn't. It was very, very unpredictable and it could have gone either way. They didn't need to kick out of 100 finishers to do it. They just incorporated good storytelling. This is a really good match and now I suddenly wanna see more of Masters in WWE 
*
***3/4*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Damn, that European tour worked wonders for Chris Masters. I just saw the match he had with Drew McIntyre on Superstars 5/12/11 and both men did a great job of putting on a really good match. Really loved the limb work and the way Masters sold it. Masters is a damn good seller alright. The way he sold that punch looked like it legit knocked him out cold. I also like how when Masters did the Soamoan drop instead of getting up one time (as so much guys on the indies do nowadays) he lies down on the floor, selling the leg and gets up really slowly once again SELLING the leg. This was a really a good match and is IMO the way how wrestling matches should be done. Simple but effective moves. Less is more. All the leg work McIntyre did, it was simple leg locks. He didn't use no fancy pretzel like move because it wasn't needed. When he did the figure four around the post it meant so much. I also liked the babyface comeback. I like when they are done in bits. Masters would mount an offense but McIntyre would just attack the leg or the offense mounted put so much strain on Masters' leg that he had to rest for a while. That is what I want in a wrestling match. Take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions. By just exchanging holds or chain wrestling for chain wrestling sake you're not doing that. By randomly putting a guy into some bend up fuck him up submission, it's not doing that. This match also had moments where you thought it was gonna end but it didn't. It was very, very unpredictable and it could have gone either way. They didn't need to kick out of 100 finishers to do it. They just incorporated good storytelling. This is a really good match and now I suddenly wanna see more of Masters in WWE
> *
> ***3/4*


(Y) Great to see you love it, it is indeed an awesome match and you touched on everything superbly.

As I said as well there's also a great nearfall from the skyhigh spinebuster/baldo bomb move which pinned Mcintyre in a 2 minute match they had on Smackdown earlier in the year which was a really great callback spot that further pushed the match over the edge for me. I also loved the selling and build to that Samoan Drop, felt like such a big spot in the match which is amazing for how simplistic and basic the move has been used by other wrestlers in WWE.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

rude awakening said:


> I still really liked the Hell in a Cell match, you can't really deny that HBK, Taker and Triple H are the only guys on the roster that can get you emotionally invested in a match.


I can, I will, & I do.

As I told my father in the audience at Cleveland, it was the announcement that HBK would be there that made me want to buy the tickets.

Undertaker, on the other hand?... I may be one of the few people that did not stand or applaud hardly at all when he came down the ramp at that same show. I often change channels when he wrestles on TV (would, except that it's mainly PPVs, when I have to stay on the channel, so I know if anything I want to see happens/when the mach ends).


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

What's wrong with Taker? Granted he only wrestles once a year now but he's pretty much helped carry the company for about 20 years.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I dont see how anyone can dislike Taker

The man's effort, dedication, and physical and mental conditioning is some of the finest in wrestling history


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

sharkboy22 said:


> Damn, that European tour worked wonders for Chris Masters. I just saw the match he had with Drew McIntyre on Superstars 5/12/11 and both men did a great job of putting on a really good match. Really loved the limb work and the way Masters sold it. Masters is a damn good seller alright. The way he sold that punch looked like it legit knocked him out cold. I also like how when Masters did the Soamoan drop instead of getting up one time (as so much guys on the indies do nowadays) he lies down on the floor, selling the leg and gets up really slowly once again SELLING the leg. This was a really a good match and is IMO the way how wrestling matches should be done. Simple but effective moves. Less is more. All the leg work McIntyre did, it was simple leg locks. He didn't use no fancy pretzel like move because it wasn't needed. When he did the figure four around the post it meant so much. I also liked the babyface comeback. I like when they are done in bits. Masters would mount an offense but McIntyre would just attack the leg or the offense mounted put so much strain on Masters' leg that he had to rest for a while. That is what I want in a wrestling match. Take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions. By just exchanging holds or chain wrestling for chain wrestling sake you're not doing that. By randomly putting a guy into some bend up fuck him up submission, it's not doing that. This match also had moments where you thought it was gonna end but it didn't. It was very, very unpredictable and it could have gone either way. They didn't need to kick out of 100 finishers to do it. They just incorporated good storytelling. This is a really good match and now I suddenly wanna see more of Masters in WWE
> *
> ***3/4*


Just watched this match for the first time and I gotta say that Masters' selling was absolutely fantastic. I especially loved the way he sold that punch that you mentioned as well how he sold the move he did off the middle rope. It's a shame that he was released shortly after this. McIntyre's leg work was great too. I've always loved his unique, innovative style in how he uses every part of the ring to work on a certain body part. I don't know if I'd give it as high of a rating as you did, but it's a really enjoyable match that's worth a watch.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

What do you guys think was the best brand exclusive PPV for each brand? I'd go Vengeance 2005 (RAW) and Vengeance 2003 (Smackdown).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Definitely Vengeance 05 for Raw, as for SD... hmmm... No Mercy 06 or Armageddon 06 probably.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Unforgiven 06 is up there for Raw too. Ultimately, I'd go with Vengeance 03 & 05. Judgment Day 06 is an underrated show imo.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

No Mercy 2006 was pretty good


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> I dont see how anyone can dislike Taker
> 
> The man's effort, dedication, and physical and mental conditioning is some of the finest in wrestling history


I likewise don't see how people can like him... Perhaps some of his past matches, but not him as he is now.

Effort & dedication? No denying.

Mental? I don't see how any fan can know that.

As for his physical conditioning,... HA! Much the way he wore that hood & showed the hair-cutting videos for the weeks leading up to 'Mania, I wish he would admit it is not someone else at the company that is the reason he only wrestles about once every year. (That's one of the reasons I don't get "The Streak"... Being undefeated for a while, the way many WWE stars begin, is impressive, but not in one event every year, especially if/when it's the only match you have, & against stars you've faced & beaten before.)


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WWF WrestleMania X8*

*IC Title*: William Regal vs. Rob Van Dam - ***

*European Title*: Diamond Dallas Page vs. Christian - **3/4

*Hardcore Title*: Maven vs. Goldust - *3/4

Kane vs. Kurt Angle - ***

*No Disqualification*: Ric Flair vs. The Undertaker - ***1/2

Edge vs. Booker T - **3/4

Stone Cold vs. Scott Hall - **3/4

*Tag Titles*: Billy & Chuck vs. The Hardys vs. The Dudleys vs. The APA - ***

The Rock vs. Hollywood Hulk Hogan - ***1/2

*Women’s Title*: Jazz vs. Trish Stratus vs. Lita - **1/4

*Undisputed Title*: Chris Jericho vs. Triple H - ***1/4


This show always leaves me conflicted. Was it the ultimate WWF vs. WCW confrontation? No. The epic end to the alliance storyline? No. Was it a great WrestleMania? Maybe. A good WrestleMania, and a good PPV? Absolutely.

Don't get me wrong, the show is a bit of a mess. Given the massive roster at the time, WWF could have come up with a card as good as, if not better than, WM X7. Instead, they opted for some very awkward pairings: DPP in the lower card, Kurt Angle vs. Kane, instead of Mr. Perfect, Undertaker squashing Ric Flair, Booker T and Edge fighting over a shampoo endorsement, Steve Austin against...Scott Hall, and the first undisputed champ ever playing second fiddle to Stephanie McMahon, not to mention the backwards booking of Triple H winning the title from a superstar new to the main event in Jericho.

That aside, the match quality is quite good. Regal/RVD is a perfect opener: short and sweet, a great clash of styles, very crisp, Angle/Kane is better than I remember, Flair/UT is a very good weapons brawl, Edge/Booker is a nice little spring, Austin/Hall, while not the classic it could have been (I'm sure I would have been pissed watching it live), is still a blast (best stunner ever), Rock/Hogan is an instant classic, and this may be the first time I ever actually enjoyed Y2J/HHH. 

Rock/Hogan was the featured attraction and shouldn't have gone on last. Y2J/HHH had a great steph bump at the beginning, Y2J working on HHH's leg and then HHH trying to do the same, a good table spot, the crowd going nuts for HHH pedigreeing Steph, a sick chairshot, and an interesting counter for the finish. I do feel like it ended as soon as it started to get good (much like WM XXVIII, but it still had a nice ending.

How much you enjoy this show really depends on how you look at it. It's not what it could have been, nor as great as it should have been, but still tremendously entertaining.


----------



## JuviJuiceIsLoose (Mar 27, 2009)

PGSucks said:


> What do you guys think was the best brand exclusive PPV for each brand? I'd go Vengeance 2005 (RAW) and Vengeance 2003 (Smackdown).


Vengeance 2003 is one of my favorite shows of all-time.

Great Opener
Great Main Event
Nice little match between Taker and Cena.

I fucking *LOVE* the WGTT vs Filthy Animals match!

Honestly, it's in my top 10 Tag Matches of all-time. Just fucking fantastic!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> I likewise don't see how people can like him... Perhaps some of his past matches, but not him as he is now.
> 
> Effort & dedication? No denying.
> 
> ...


Well, what would you prefer, a series of mediocre matches or one genuinely epic match?

And by conditioning, i was referring to how his fitness. To maintain peak physical ability until the age of 40 and consistently getting better and stronger as he aged is unbelievable

In 2007, he was better than he was in the 90s and majority of the 2000s. He's the man


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> What do you guys think was the best brand exclusive PPV for each brand? I'd go Vengeance 2005 (RAW) and Vengeance 2003 (Smackdown).


For Raw,

1) Unforgiven 2006
2) Vengeance 2005
3) Backlash 2004

For SmackDown,

1) Armageddon 2006
2) No Way Out 2006
3) Vengeance 2003

Raws PPV's were awful in 03, Smackdowns PPV's were awful in 04. 06 and 05 was a great great year for B PPV's, it seemed like WWE found the right formula for creating good shows with half the roster.


----------



## morris3333 (Feb 13, 2006)

*new dvd*

WWE will be releasing a Zack Ryder DVD release, priced at $9.99 on 7/10. They are also working on a 7/24 DVD and Blu-Ray release looking at The Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak. There are already plans for a Brock Lesnar set as well. 

from : http://pwinsider.com/article/67484/...w-new-wwe-dvd-projects-and-more-news.html?p=1


----------



## Fenice (Nov 4, 2010)

*Re: new dvd*

Will definitely buy the Lesnar one. I know the Zack Ryder DVD will make them money but it still comes off so odd.


----------



## heyman deciple (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: new dvd*

I fail to see the point of a Ryder DVD at this point, they've only been booking him as more than a Jobber for about 6 months.

Now fast tracking a Daniel Bryan DVD titled YES! I'd have interest in that.

You could chronicle his NXT experience, his Michael Cole feud, his firing, his return, his feud with The Miz, some of his SD matches with Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase, and Sin Cara.

His MITB win, his near cash in with Mark Henry, his actual cash in, some of his segments with AJ.

Plus a documentry could be nice possibly focusing on Shawn Michaels "training" him, his coming up through the indies with Punk, with mentor'ed relationship with William Regal.


----------



## doinktheclowns (Feb 27, 2011)

*Re: new dvd*

What on earth are they going to put on a Zach Ryder DVD, he has hardly done anything.

There are plenty of guys on the roster that have achieved far more over a greater period of time that dont have DVDs.

Christian, CM Punk, Sheamus,


----------



## heyman deciple (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: new dvd*



doinktheclowns said:


> What on earth are they going to put on a Zach Ryder DVD, he has hardly done anything.
> 
> There are plenty of guys on the roster that have achieved far more over a greater period of time that dont have DVDs.
> 
> Christian, CM Punk, Sheamus,


A Punk DVD is on the way, Punk has talked about it.

A Sheamus DVD would not excite me, however a Christian DVD would be played on a endless loop in my home.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Wrestlemania 20

1. John Cena vs Big Show - **
2. F4W for the World tag team championships - *3/4
3. Christian vs Chris Jericho - ***3/4
4. Evolution vs Rock/Foley - ***1/2
5. Playboy match - DUD 
6. Cruiserweight open - **3/4
7. Goldberg vs Lesnar (Special Ref:Steve Austin) - DUD
8. F4W for the WWE tag team championships - **1/4
9. Victoria vs Molly Holly - *1/2
10.Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ****
11.Undertaker vs Kane - **
12.Triple H vs HBK vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2

Overall it is a fun show. Yes, only 4 matches on here are Wrestlemania level, but there was plenty of stuff to like. Christian/Jericho was a great fast paced match with a nice twist at the end. Rock/Foley/Evolution was a very fun match to watch. Rock and Flair in the ring together are amazing. 

The playboy match was a two minute DUD when it comes to in ring action, but my god this these ladies look sexy as hell. Goldberg/Lesnar was a huge letdown, but just hearing the crowd shit on them almost made up for the match. then we got the return of the Undertaker, and while the match was not great at all, it was still great to see Undertaker back as the deadman.

Then we got our two main events. Angle/Eddie was a very good match. Too bad it doesnt get all that much credit though. Then the main event is a classic. I dont think its a 5 star match, and I wasnt able to get all the way into it, but at the end of day its still a classic, and the best match on the card. I still like the Backlash triple threat match more.


----------



## doinktheclowns (Feb 27, 2011)

*Re: new dvd*



heyman deciple said:


> A Punk DVD is on the way, Punk has talked about it.
> 
> A Sheamus DVD would not excite me, however a Christian DVD would be played on a endless loop in my home.


I know that Punk has a DVD coming out, but for it to come out at a similar time to a guy who has been around for years and won everything(punk) to a guy who has won 2championships and has hardly done much in his biggest year(ryder), seems like a slap in the face to the likes of Punk or Christian.


----------



## Pop Tatari (May 27, 2011)

*Re: new dvd*

is the dvd showcasing Ryders legendary matches with undertaker?


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

Judging by the price the ryder dvd will be one disc which isn't bad if they put a mini doc with some of his better matches like on ecw and superstars, it could be fairly decent.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Sparta101 said:


> Wrestlemania 20
> 
> 1. John Cena vs Big Show - **
> 2. F4W for the World tag team championships - *3/4
> ...


It's a really stacked card with the good out weighing the bad imo.

Cena/Show - **1/2
Tag Team - **
Christian/Jericho - ***3/4
Evolution/Rock n Sock - ***1/2
Cruiserweight - **
Lesnar/Goldberg - eh
Tag Team - **
Eddie/Angle - ****1/4
Taker/Kane - **1/4
Triple Threat - ****3/4

I love watching Mania's and this actually felt like one, good shit.

Whilst I'm at it, I watched the underrated Wrestlemania 23 PPV again, I really enjoyed it

*WM 23*

MITB - ***1/2
MVP/Benoit - ***1/4
Kane/Khali - eh
Taker/Batista - ****1/4
ECW - **1/2
BOTB - ***1/2
Lumberjill - eh
Cena/Michaels - ****3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM23

MITB - ***3/4
MVP/Benoit - ***1/2
Kane/Khali - DUD
Taker/Batista - ****1/2 (MOTY)
ECW - **3/4
BOTB - ***1/2
Lumberjill - DUD
Cena/Michaels - ****


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Give us a Ted Dibiase dvd!


----------



## James Curran (Jan 19, 2011)

*Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

WWE Undertaker: The Streak​
Soon, in July.. the newest WWE DVD to come out will be WWE Undertaker: The streak. Dedicated to his last win against Triple H at Wrestlemania 28. 

The official DVD Information is here -



> It is the most impressive feat in the history of Sports Entertainment, and one that may never be duplicated. Twenty times Undertaker has stepped in the ring at the Showcase of the Immortals, WrestleMania, and 20 times he’s had his hand raised in victory. Undertaker has faced some of the biggest names in WWE history, including Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Ric Flair, Edge, Kane, Batista, Randy Orton, and more, and always claimed their souls.
> 
> Now for the first time ever, every match in its entirety is collected in one release—Undertaker: The Streak. In addition to every match, the DVD also includes a never-before-seen documentary discussing the historic, unprecedented run.


*Release date*
July 24th, 2012 

--------
Man! I am so going to buy this DVD. Are you? Comment.


----------



## RubyRed (May 25, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

Yep. On my to buy list.


----------



## Freeloader (Jul 27, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

They should do a 10 DVD set on his entire career, fuck the streak alone.


----------



## Heel (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

Makes no sense to release it unless he's not having any more Mania matches.


----------



## James Curran (Jan 19, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*



Freeloader said:


> They should do a 10 DVD set on his entire career, fuck the streak alone.


Yeah..

DVD 1 - Streak
DVD 2, 3, 4 - Greatest Matches
DVD 5, 6, 7 - Greates Moments
DVD 8 - Feuds and Rivalrys
DVD 9 - His Special matches (Hell in a cell, buried alive, casket match)
DVD 10 - Not sure.


----------



## Arcanine (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

Thank goodness he didn't have a match with Benoit.


----------



## MarkusB (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

Documentary might be worth a watch. Rest is pointless really, just like 15-0 dvd.

I want a multi disc set with a sit down interview like Bret, Austin or Shawn's.


----------



## James Curran (Jan 19, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*



MarkusB said:


> Documentary might be worth a watch. Rest is pointless really, just like 15-0 dvd.
> 
> I want a multi disc set with a sit down interview like Bret, Austin or Shawn's.


Yeah I think that would be cool too. Interviews with some of Undertaker's greatest opponents.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

lawl ~13 out of those 20 matches aren't even watchable because they just suck.


----------



## James Curran (Jan 19, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

lol. Which ones of them will they be then that "suck"?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

[cheap plug]
21 Disc Lesnar comp $50 shipped anywhere http://www.wrestlingforum.com/11288345-post623.html
[/cheap plug]


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*



James Curran said:


> lol. Which ones of them will they be then that "suck"?


I remember the Giant Gonzalez match being terrible. Not Taker's fault though, he was working with an idiot who couldn't wrestle.


----------



## [The_Game] (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*

Either he is booked to lose next year's wrestlemania match. Or that was indeed his last match at WM. Im guessing the latter  Thats not good news. Undertaker's match for the past 2 years has stole the show.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

10 disc DVD? Are you serious? 10 x 2 and half hours per disc = 25 hours of Taker, never going to happen.

Untill Mania 17, most of the matches were shite tbf. 

vs. Big Boss Man - DUD
vs. Gonzalez - 3/4*
vs. Jake Roberts - *1/4
vs. King Kong Bundy - DUD

Theres 4 of the top of my head.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I want a regal dvd DAMMIT!.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alright, new topic ; **** 3/4 matches, what keeps them from being *****?

I'm thinking even the slightest little thing can deduct a quarter of a star. For instance, let's look at WM XXVII: Undertaker vs Triple H. If HHH fades out instead of tapping at the matches end, I see it as a ***** encounter. Why does that make such a difference ? I believe that if Trips had to pass out, it would have went more with the story of "End The Streak Or Die Trying" , rather than him actually giving up.

Any other notable matches that have a minor flaw that keeps it from being ***** ?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels WM XX
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit RR 01
Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle WM 21

Only ones I can think of that majority would concur with. I have many ****3/4 but never have any intention of putting ***** on it.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Alright, new topic ; **** 3/4 matches, what keeps them from being *****?
> 
> I'm thinking even the slightest little thing can deduct a quarter of a star. For instance, let's look at WM XXVII: Undertaker vs Triple H. If HHH fades out instead of tapping at the matches end, I see it as a ***** encounter. Why does that make such a difference ? I believe that if Trips had to pass out, it would have went more with the story of "End The Streak Or Die Trying" , rather than him actually giving up.
> 
> Any other notable matches that have a minor flaw that keeps it from being ***** ?


Hm, I have no idea. One thing I noticed is you have Batista/Trips HiaC at ****3/4, while I have it at five. Maybe the fact that it doesn't truly pick up until the second half or so? Still, I think you're nuts for that one 

For me, Benoit/Angle is a perfect match... and that's theproblem. It being so perfectly choreographed means it kinda lacks soul.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have no idea why certain matches are only ****3/4 instead of *****. I just kinda get a feeling when I watch a match and know its ***** rather than just ****3/4. I'm crazy though. GIVE ME BACK MY SMILEY.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cal I'd be shocked if you didn't think the 03 Angle/Taker was five w/out the shiity finish. *insert tongue smiley*







:sad:


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

*Re: Exclusive news about the new Undertaker DVD,*



[The_Game] said:


> Either he is booked to lose next year's wrestlemania match. Or that was indeed his last match at WM. Im guessing the latter  Thats not good news. Undertaker's match for the past 2 years has stole the show.


I told another wrestling fan on Twitter this year after Mania that I thought Punk & Y2J had Match of the Night. She replied Taker & HHH "stole the show." I told her all Taker had stolen was time I'd never get back, same as many of his entrances.

I agree there appears no point in a Streak DVD unless this was his last WM match... Which is why now is a great time to release it.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Why do you dislike Taker? Actual answer please.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Vader13 said:


> Why do you dislike Taker? Actual answer please.


I've been asked that before, & answered it before. You want to find the answers I gave? You can do the work to find them.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

You didn't answer it last time hence why I asked it like that. You gave some condescending reply.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Vader13 said:


> You didn't answer it last time hence why I asked it like that. You gave some condescending reply.


If I didn't answer it "last time" either, it's because I've been asked it (obviously exaggerating) 60,000 times. The answers are always the same, & they never stop being true, so it's not my fault nor my problem if you missed when I gave the answers.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

When I get a "this is wrestling" feel, that's 5-stars for me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Razor King said:


> When I get a "this is wrestling" feel, that's 5-stars for me.


Well I certainly got that feeling watching the End of an Era at WM28. Can you believe people think that match was only brawling and chair shots? The storytelling, drama and emotion in that match along with the intensity and brutality was off the page. It was almost like watching the finale of an epic movie.

Could the HBK/Flair-HBK/Batista-HBK/Jericho-HBK/Taker-Taker/HHH-Taker/HHH/HBK be the best arc in WWE history? From the wrestling to the promos to the matches to the finishes, it has been nothing short of what I'd call perfect storytelling. It's marvelous seeing how those feuds unfolded and transitioned to the next set of guys. WWE or someone should make a DVD on it. From 'Old Yeller' to 'End of an Era.' This stuff is of legend.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

TJChurch said:


> If I didn't answer it "last time" either, it's because I've been asked it (obviously exaggerating) 60,000 times. The answers are always the same, & they never stop being true, so it's not my fault nor my problem if you missed when I gave the answers.


Obviously I've missed the answer you gave, would have figured it'd have been easier and more polite to give me an answer but whatever I'm used to reading your arrogant posts. It only makes sense that someone like you would have an irrational hatred of someone that most likely can't be justified.


----------



## holy (Apr 9, 2008)

Clique said:


> Well I certainly got that feeling watching the End of an Era at WM28. Can you believe people think that match was only brawling and chair shots? The storytelling, drama and emotion in that match along with the intensity and brutality was off the page. It was almost like watching the finale of an epic movie.
> 
> Could the HBK/Flair-HBK/Batista-HBK/Jericho-HBK/Taker-Taker/HHH-Taker/HHH/HBK be the best arc in WWE history? From the wrestling to the promos to the matches to the finishes, it has been nothing short of what I'd call perfect storytelling. It's marvelous seeing how those feuds unfolded and transitioned to the next set of guys. WWE or someone should make a DVD on it. From 'Old Yeller' to 'End of an Era.' This stuff is of legend.


I've often read that there is some connection between the HBK/Flair and HBK/Taker feud, but i don't understand how  I mean, i understand how the other feuds connected to one another, but i've never understood how HBK/Flair connected to HBK/Taker.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

holy said:


> I've often read that there is some connection between the HBK/Flair and HBK/Taker feud, but i don't understand how  I mean, i understand how the other feuds connected to one another, but i've never understood how HBK/Flair connected to HBK/Taker.


Someone else in here will be able to articulate this a lot better than me but I'll give it a go.

For me at least it all starts with Shawn having to "put down" Flair and end his career. You have that great, emotional ending with Flair telling Michaels to bring it, you can see that Flair has nothing left but he won't give up. He won't lay down. Shawn knows this and he knows that he needs to be the one to end Flair's career.

I'm going to skip straight to HBK/Taker now rather than go into detail about Shawn's other feuds in between (because frankly, I can't be arsed). Shawn ended Flair at Mania 24 and now 25 is coming around. His focus is now on the Undertaker and the streak. Something else Shawn feels he NEEDS to end. Of course he doesn't (not for the lack of trying in spectacular fashion), but the match could've gone either way and three years later on a rewatch it still holds up as one of my favourite matches ever and my personal favourite of the two HBK/Taker Mania classics.

Anyways, a year later and Mania 26 rolls around and Shawn hasn't forgotten. It consumes him that he couldn't get the job done the previous year and he can't just let it be. He puts his career on the line because as far as he's concerned if he can't do this, if he can't be the best, his career needs to be ended by the best and there damn sure aint no better than Taker at Wrestlemania. 

Do you see that now it's all or nothing much like Mania 24? However this time, Shawn is in "the Flair role". Flair needed to either be the best or be beaten by the best, and as far as he was concerned Shawn was the best. This is exactly how Shawn feels about Taker, he's either going to end the streak or his career isn't worth carrying on with.

Now the ending of the Mania 26 match is where it truly comes full-circle in what truly is one of the greatest match finishes I have personally ever witnessed. Shawn refusing to die (Flair) and Taker wanting him to just stay down (Shawn). Shawn out on his feet but being defiant right up until the end (Flair). Taker being conflicted but knowing exactly what needs to be done (Shawn). BOOM Tombstone (BOOM Sweet Chin Music). Amazing stuff.

Anyway, I suck at writing and as I said before I'm sure someone else can explain it much more articulately, but that is the story arc as best as I can describe it (at least from my perspective) so I hope that helped.

*tl;dr - Shawn ends Flair - Shawn trys to end Taker - Fails - Taker ends Shawn *


----------



## Sun-Tzu (Apr 3, 2012)

Thoughts on Jericho vs. HBK at WMXIX?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

In 2008 we saw the end of Ric Flair .. two years later we saw the end of HBK .. two years later we saw the end of an Era
what is going to happen in 2014 ? "My guess is the end of the dead man"


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Sun-Tzu said:


> Thoughts on Jericho vs. HBK at WMXIX?


****1/2 range, best Mania everwith Austin/Rock and Lesnar/Angle too. For some reason I have major love for Booker/Trips in this show at like ***3/4, was epic.



robertdeniro said:


> In 2008 we saw the end of Ric Flair .. two years later we saw the end of HBK .. two years later we saw the end of an Era
> what is going to happen in 2014 ? "My guess is the end of the dead man"


I don't think the streak will ever be defeated. Although it would help put over a massive mid carder but they would never go down that route now, especially over the past 4 years.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

KingCal said:


> I have no idea why certain matches are only ****3/4 instead of *****. I just kinda get a feeling when I watch a match and know its ***** rather than just ****3/4. I'm crazy though. GIVE ME BACK MY SMILEY.


Because when you have something at ****3/4, it means you ADDED something to a ****1/2 match, because of some detail or shit like that. It doesn't mean you took away something from a ***** match.


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## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

Nothing is five stars. There's no such thing as perfection.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

^ watch Lawler and Dundee, 30/12/85 and say that again motherfucker .



God damn, now I'm pissed the smiley is gone, end of that sentence seems incredibly dull now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Segunda Caida said:


> ^ watch Lawler and Dundee, 30/12/85 and say that again motherfucker .
> 
> 
> 
> *God damn, now I'm pissed the smiley is gone, end of that sentence seems incredibly dull now*.


Like most of your posts 8*D.

Yeah, I've decided to be a dick now my smiley is gone...

Nah, I'm too nice.

New Edge documentary is really good.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Just for that comment I want to send in a Top 100 WWF Ballot and rank Wrestlemania 13 ahead of the HIAC between HBK and Taker







.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Considering the set is made and has been for over a year I don't think it matters all that much TONGUE SMILEY.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

You had to go and ruin it by being all logical and shit didn't you.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Legend said:


> Nothing is five stars. There's no such thing as perfection.


Except five stars doesn't mean perfection, duh...


----------



## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> ^ watch Lawler and Dundee, 30/12/85 and say that again motherfucker .


Yeah it's good and all, but not _perfect_.



JoeRulz said:


> Except five stars doesn't mean perfection, duh...


Uh... well... what's higher than five stars then?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Perfection.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

5 and a half stars.


----------



## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

So what's that? Five Stars PLUS? Five Stars TURBO? Five Stars MEGA? Five Stars ALL THE WAY TO ELEVEN? 

If there's no higher rating then Five Stars, then Five Stars is, to the person giving it out, perfection. They can go no higher.


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## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Legend said:


> So what's that? Five Stars PLUS? Five Stars TURBO? Five Stars MEGA? Five Stars ALL THE WAY TO ELEVEN?
> 
> If there's no higher rating then Five Stars, then Five Stars is, to the person giving it out, perfection. They can go no higher.


There's no reason to place an unattainable end of a scale based on an ideal of perfection, so rating a match out of five with five not really existing is silly.


----------



## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

Exactly. Don't know why you chaps love to do it so much.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

facepalm.jpg


----------



## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

Clever.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Why come here and moan about us dishing out star ratings? It's something we enjoy doing, not hurting anyone. We don't complain about you blogging, where you dish out star ratings for movies. 

no movie is perfect.


----------



## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

I wasn't moaning. I don't mind star ratings. I never said I did. I simply stated that I would never give a match Five Stars because of my nihilistic view on all forms of art. This opinion was then challenged. I therefore explained my point of view and asked for one of you to explain yours. 

No one did. What a great discussion.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Legend said:


> I wasn't moaning. I don't mind star ratings. I never said I did. I simply stated that I would never give a match Five Stars because of my nihilistic view on all forms of art. This opinion was then challenged. I therefore explained my point of view and asked for one of you to explain yours.
> 
> No one did. What a great discussion.


I will now direct you to the touchstone method of criticism, most notably used by Matthew Arnold.

http://literarism.blogspot.in/2011/03/touchstone-method-arnold.html


----------



## Legend (Nov 3, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I will now direct you to the touchstone method of criticism, most notably used by Matthew Arnold.
> 
> http://literarism.blogspot.in/2011/03/touchstone-method-arnold.html


Thank you. I at least know where you are coming from. I don't necessarily follow Arnold 100%, but I doubt anyone does. That's the problem with writing; true objectivity is quite rare, and often strays in subjectivity or even perspectivity.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Vader13 said:


> Obviously I've missed the answer you gave, would have figured it'd have been easier and more polite to give me an answer but whatever I'm used to reading your arrogant posts. It only makes sense that someone like you would have an irrational hatred of someone that most likely can't be justified.


I see no reason to be polite to you, someone who (like it seems many here) doesn't care in the least about being polite to me.

That said, you want me to articulate a few of the reasons I dislike Taker? Fine' Here's a few.

1] The man is old & slow. Yes, so is my grandfather... But my grandfather doesn't get paid major money to work in a limited space with people half his age (or less), & on shows where the time every night/week is limited. The truly sad thing about this is that you won't see much evidence of it due to carrying & other things Taker's opponents will often do because of the respect they have for him & what he has done for the business in the past. (As former WWE employee Kevin Kelly wrote recently, everyone will make $ if people come to see Taker, HBK, & the like... True, but when the man upstairs eternally retires the men involved in that match, many people won't know the ability of guys like Danielson because Taker & the others get so much of the time now.)

2] Which brings me to my second piece... Guys like Taker (& to a lesser point, Rock) have the respect of so many in the back, & rightfully so. The only problem is (as I said in #1) the time will come (or in Rock's case, has before) when they are one way or another unable to work (at least not as well/much as they once were). There are many guys (Punk & Bryan both come to mind) young enough & talented enough to keep the audience & their attention. Imagine how much it would help that if, say, Rock or Taker were to job to one of the young ones! But the same way their past work has earned respect from others, it is clear they have developed an ego from the same.

That is just a small piece of it. There is plenty, but it's all repeating myself anyway, & unlike Rock, I don't like to live off of what I've already said.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

Im pretty sure Steamboat and Flair got a 6 star match from Meltzer in the 80s`


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> 1] The man is old & slow. Yes, so is my grandfather... But my grandfather doesn't get paid major money to work in a limited space with people half his age (or less), & on shows where the time every night/week is limited. The truly sad thing about this is that you won't see much evidence of it due to carrying & other things Taker's opponents will often do because of the respect they have for him & what he has done for the business in the past. (As former WWE employee Kevin Kelly wrote recently, everyone will make $ if people come to see Taker, HBK, & the like... True, but when the man upstairs eternally retires the men involved in that match, many people won't know the ability of guys like Danielson because Taker & the others get so much of the time now.)


He's wrestled two matches since the beginning of 2011. Point to promos and video packages, but do you REALLY think that's a Taker thing and not a Vince/WWE in general thing?




TJChurch said:


> 2] Which brings me to my second piece... Guys like Taker (& to a lesser point, Rock) have the respect of so many in the back, & rightfully so. The only problem is (as I said in #1) the time will come (or in Rock's case, has before) when they are one way or another *unable to work (at least not as well/much as they once were)*. There are many guys (Punk & Bryan both come to mind) young enough & talented enough to keep the audience & their attention. Imagine how much it would help that if, say, Rock or Taker were to job to one of the young ones! But the same way their past work has earned respect from others, it is clear they have developed an ego from the same.





> He's wrestled two matches since the beginning of 2011.


 Pretty sure that time came a long time ago and he hasn't been hogging any time up or stealing any spotlights. Taker having an ego just sounds like bullshit. He's been willing to lose his own "streak" for years to people like Orton, who wasn't even a WWE emplyee for three years at the time. WWE themselves seem to simply refuse to put anyone against Taker who isn't already an established "legend" in their eyes. That's not Taker's doing.

Basically all I got from that post is "I don't like him because WWE don't push young people." I can't get you to like him, but it sounds more like visceral disliking. Which isn't bad or anything, everyone has bias whether they think so or not. I'm not 100% sure why I despise Paul London myself.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> He's wrestled two matches since the beginning of 2011.


You're not including the time others waste talking to/about him. (Such a thing is like they do for guys like Rock, when they aren't on the regular roster.)



Yeah1993 said:


> Point to promos and video packages, but do you REALLY think that's a Taker thing and not a Vince/WWE in general thing?


What rules-out the possibility that it's both?! The two ware not mutually-exclusive.




Yeah1993 said:


> Pretty sure that time came a long time ago and he hasn't been hogging any time up or stealing any spotlights.


His entrances alone seem to take forever, & that's only counting the time before he even hits the stage. Then, the hour-long crawl to the ring, etc... And each move takes longer (probably due in large part to his advanced age, etc.).



Yeah1993 said:


> Taker having an ego just sounds like bullshit.


As the Ziggler shirt says, "Not bragging if you back it up." There was a time I enjoyed watching the man/his matches. But I wonder how much what he did has earned of what he's gotten since then, & how much Vince/WWE have just given him? (Perhaps a mix, believing your own hype, doing what they let you get away with, or something?)



Yeah1993 said:


> WWE themselves seem to simply refuse to put anyone against Taker who isn't already an established "legend" in their eyes. That's not Taker's doing.


For several WMs now, I've seen what I feel is a circular discussion going on: Some feel Taker's streak should end to an established guy (those are the people backing HHH & HBK matches), whereas some say ending the streak should be a rub for a young/future star.



Yeah1993 said:


> Basically all I got from that post is "I don't like him because WWE don't push young people." I can't get you to like him, but it sounds more like visceral disliking. Which isn't bad or anything, everyone has bias whether they think so or not. I'm not 100% sure why I despise Paul London myself.


It's certainly not that; I see WWE often pushing young people (albeit largely later-generation stars like Orton, Cody, DiBiase, etc.)... But I like/dislike (some of) those & many on the roster for much different reasons.

I'm not sure why you despise Paul London, either... Can't help you, since I don't.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I dont think its right for anyone to end the streak at this point

last guy with a legit chance was Orton. And then maybe when Taker was begging Shawn to go not retire during the Wrestlemania 26 match.

But now? Its the kind of thing that I believe can haunt your career forever. I dont think ANYONE wants to go down as the guy who ended the last truly magical thing in wrestling. Nobody is good enough to do it, or simply doesnt need it.

And has for his matches, he's delivered pretty much the match that stole the show since Wrestlemania 23. He may have gotten older but he could be the best big game wrestler I ever saw. When the chips are down he ALWAYS gives it everything he's got and delivers

And really? bitching about the length of his entrance? how old are you? 6? His gimmick entrance and streak are one of the few genuinely special things left in wrestling. When him, Shawn and Triple H spoke of the end of the era, I think what they meant was, the end of the larger than life mega star. Undertaker is the last one, he's a dinosaur of an age were wrestlers were like the demi-gods. And looking around, nobody will ever match that. Too much overexposure has killed that sense. Not Cena, not Rock, not brock, nobody. He's old school, and proud of it


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> I dont think its right for anyone to end the streak at this point


I have been telling fans online for years that to me, the end of such a streak psychologically would be a great reason for the guy/character to retire. Also, in both the case of HBK & HHH, I thought after he beat them the first time, ending the streak in revenge would have been great. Now? I don't know.



hell_kaiser said:


> And has for his matches, he's delivered pretty much the match that stole the show since Wrestlemania 23.


I believe I saw it here around Mania that some thought it was Match of the Night, & others disliked it. I can tell you I was the latter, & doubt I was alone in that.



hell_kaiser said:


> When the chips are down he ALWAYS gives it everything he's got and delivers


No question he gives it everything he's got.... But I don't think that is all that much anymore.



hell_kaiser said:


> His gimmick entrance and streak are one of the few genuinely special things left in wrestling.


Genuinely different? No doubt. Special? OK. In a good way? No.



hell_kaiser said:


> When him, Shawn and Triple H spoke of the end of the era, I think what they meant was, the end of the larger than life mega star. Undertaker is the last one


If I remember correctly, HHH said that he was also one of the last ones. He was right about both... Which is why that cell was the perfect place to end the career.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Legend said:


> I wasn't moaning. I don't mind star ratings. I never said I did. I simply stated that I would never give a match Five Stars because of my nihilistic view on all forms of art. This opinion was then challenged. I therefore explained my point of view and asked for one of you to explain yours.
> 
> No one did. What a great discussion.


Well your point didn't come off too well but now I get you.

I don't see star ratings from DUD to perfection. If its one of the best matches I've ever seen with storytelling and psychology added then I'll consider a 5 star rating but not because it's perfection, as nothing is perfect.

The rare full 5 matches I have are just the rare epic matches that come along once every few years which defines what wrestling is. Matches which you wouldn't feel emotion to or compelled to compared to your normal run of the mill matches.

For me Punk/Cena springs to mind. Some people have this match at the full 5, even Meltzer. I could watch this match now till the end of time? It was the best built match in years, the crowd were amazing, story telling top notch, perfectly booked, etc.

Flaws were the no selling by Cena as per, so in all it's not perfect, but it's match that is just seperated from every PPV match I've seen in the last 5 years, easy.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> I have been telling fans online for years that to me, the end of such a streak psychologically would be a great reason for the guy/character to retire. Also, in both the case of HBK & HHH, I thought after he beat them the first time, ending the streak in revenge would have been great. Now? I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont see what's so wrong about letting Taker has his streak. Considering he dedicated his entire career to be a side character, i think its a bit of an honour, especially in contrast to Shawn and Triple H who were often the main stars

And as for Taker's matches in the post Wrestlemania 23 era (Taker I believe, hit 'big time' mode at No way out 2006 and continued until Summerslam 2008, afterwards he just had amazing Wrestlemania matches), whats wrong with them? why didnt they impress you?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Vader13 said:


> Obviously I've missed the answer you gave, would have figured it'd have been easier and more polite to give me an answer but whatever I'm used to reading your arrogant posts. It only makes sense that someone like you would have an irrational hatred of someone that most likely can't be justified.


It's not arrogance so much as just someone looking for attention and trying to get a rise out of people. It's obviously working well for everyone.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> I dont see what's so wrong about letting Taker has his streak.


Nor do I... However, if WWE is going to do that, let's just admit that in one of the "dirt sheets" &/or on the IWC, so that we don't waste our time discussing its possible end on every Road to Wrestlemania.



redeadening said:


> Considering he dedicated his entire career to be a side character,


He did. 1] When did he tell you (or anyone else) that? 2]It sure hasn't appeared that away for at least about 8 years.



redeadening said:


> i think its a bit of an honour, especially in contrast to Shawn and Triple H who were often the main stars


Hard to believe considering they actually were in a famous stable together, & even shared matches together after one of them had supposedly retired.



redeadening said:


> And as for Taker's matches in the post Wrestlemania 23 era (Taker I believe, hit 'big time' mode at No way out 2006 and continued until Summerslam 2008, afterwards he just had amazing Wrestlemania matches), whats wrong with them? why didnt they impress you?


I don't think "whats wrong with them" is the right question without speaking of an individual match, which I am not about to do. As for why they didn't impress me, not going to answer that except to say that they didn't. That's not saying anything, as many matches are not all that "impressive". But many of Taker's matches aren't that good. (That opinion is all I will say.)


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> It's not arrogance so much as just someone looking for attention and trying to get a rise out of people. It's obviously working well for everyone.


Actually, it is none of the above. Why would I do that when I clearly get reactions from people here when I don't want them, get asked the same question 80x after already answering the verbatim same one before, etc.?!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

TJChurch said:


> Actually, it is none of the above. Why would I do that when I clearly get reactions from people here when I don't want them, get asked the same question 80x after already answering the verbatim same one before, etc.?!


Good point. 

I have no issue with you bro. Until I do I have no problem holding a conversation with you. I have not been on this forum long but I stay for the conversation. Its a fun way to kill time and I think we all bring something different to the table. I don't always agree with you but respect your opinion and everyone elses. Im a tough person to get upset though especially on a pro wrestling message board. You think Savage is overrated? You think Foley is nothing more than a stunt man? You think the Montreal Screwjob was a good thing? You think Sting's match with Flair at the first Clash of the Champions sucked? It's not going to bother me. Now I think those takes fucking suck but hey to each his/her own. It's pro wrestling for Gods sake. 

Don't get too worked up about answering a question though. If you come on a forum and disagree with people (which you do quite a bit...you don't say much that is positive) you have to be prepared to back it up. Even when I disagree with someone I respect their opinion if they explain where they are coming from. Which you did. It does come off like you enjoy arguing. If I'm wrong it won't be the last time it happens. Like all of us.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

what the fuck is hell_kaiser?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Don't get too worked up about answering a question though. If you come on a forum and disagree with people *(which you do quite a bit...you don't say much that is positive)* you have to be prepared to back it up. Even when I disagree with someone I respect their opinion if they explain where they are coming from. Which you did. *It does come off like you enjoy arguing.* If I'm wrong it won't be the last time it happens. Like all of us.


I am one of the biggest defenders you're likely to find of people's right to there opinion... Except when it comes to me. Actually, I also don't care if you like or hate me, so long as you make known it's an opinion. I boldfaced what I did because they sound like not opinions but observations, & are WAAAAAY off-base.

Last I checked, this was not a forum/thread for anyone (even me) to discuss me.


----------



## heyman deciple (Dec 23, 2006)

Finally watched the Bret Vs. Shawn DVD. As a HUGE fan of both I loved it.

The one thing I found ironic, was Bret giving Shawn shit about dancing with kids in the ring then on the second disc after Bret gives away his glasses to a little girl he let's her kiss him on the cheek.

Both are creepy Bret, BOTH ARE CREEPY.

Hypocritical much, Hitman?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

This is going to be a very unpopular post but I'd like to see the Taker streak end. It has lost a lot of it's luster since he became Taker Claus and works one day a year. I really think it's fucking stupid TBH. Ok you don't want to be a full-timer or even part-timer anymore. I get it. You are old and your body is beat up. It happens. So fucking retire. 

Now I love Taker. Probably in my top 10-15 favs of all time. I remember marking like a motherfucker in the 5th grade when he tombstoned Hogan on a chair and won the Winged Eagle (RIP) at Survivor Series in 1991. I have found myself wanting the streak to end though the last few years. Lets be honest half of the matches during the streak suck. I think Taker should have lost to Edge at WM24 and that should have been earlier in the card with HBK V Flair closing the show. I not only say that as an Edge fan but I think it would have meant a lot to Edge's character which is very underrated. 

Love the match or not but the end of the HitC was perfect. I loved it and don't really do the whole star rating thing but I do enjoy reading reviews of matches. If I had to give it a star rating I'd say somewhere in the 4-4.5 family. I was very entertained. I think Taker needs to walk away though. Why come back after two epic matches (again my opinion) with HHH in back to back years? Nothing left to prove. But IF he comes back for WM29 I'd like to see him in Survivor Series as well since thats where his career started. 

I have had this Survivor Series idea for a few weeks. Some sort of old school elimination match with new guys V older guys would be badass. Like Punk, Bryan, Brock, Cody Rhodes, Barrett (Im expecting a big push and for him to be champ once healthy) and Cena V Austin, HHH, Angle (yes that Angle), Rock, Foley and Taker would be badass. If not Angle maybe Christian or Kane. Yes I know you have faces and heels on the same team but they could come up with some angle (no pun intended) where this would work and work well. This would also build my Mania 29 dream card of....

Austin V Punk (If no Austin or Angle are around I'd love to see a Punk V Bryan Iron Man Match but that wont happen so maybe a title unification match...Bryan would have to win the title back obviously and I really think Punk will be champ again at mania next year but will drop it in the next couple weeks or months and win it back around Royal Rumble time) 

Rock V Brock (I really dont care if this has a title up for grabs or not....this would be a great rematch from a good match 10 years ago)

Angle V Bryan (I Quit match) 

Cena V HHH (Retirement match...with HHH losing) 

Taker V Barrett (who I expect to be a mega heel by then)........if Taker retires thn just remove Taker and Barrett from the Survivor Series match above and make it a 5 on 5 instead of 6 on 6 

Foley V Cody Rhodes (No DQ match....I could see Foley doing for Rhodes career what he did for HHH or Orton and think this could be a great match if Foley is in shape and Foley has said on twitter he has one "big" bump left in him.....why not a HOF induction in his backyard and one last hardcore match?)



TJChurch said:


> I am one of the biggest defenders you're likely to find of people's right to there opinion... Except when it comes to me. Actually, *I also don't care if you like or hate me*, so long as you make known it's an opinion. I boldfaced what I did because they sound like not opinions but observations, & are WAAAAAY off-base.
> 
> Last I checked, *this was not a forum/thread for anyone (even me) to discuss me*.


Fair enough & likewise. I try not to waste a lot of time on what people think of me. At the end of the day that is not something I can control. I just do me. If people think I'm cool thats awesome. If they think I suck oh well. I'm not for everyone. Same goes for you. Something I am able to do is get along with someone and be respectful even if I disagree with them. That sets me apart I guess but like I said earlier Im a tough person to upset. Especially here. 

I guess if you don't care what people think about you and you don't care if you get along with someone why would you waste so much time talking with people about a topic as unique as pro wrestling with people you either don't care for or don't give a shit what you have to say? That comes off like you are looking for attention but if I'm off my bad homey. 

My take on why people are wanting to talk about you is just the way you come off. You come off very negative and like you shit on everything. Maybe that is accurate? Maybe that is just the way you are? Hell if I know. This is what out 4th time talking with each other. I don't have enough to go off of. I try not to form opinions on people/things without lots of fact.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I actually only made those comments to get an answer out of him, which worked. You have the complete opposite opinions to me I think, TJC. Would you say that you aren't a fan of the slower pace of wrestling? Have you seen much Memphis work from the 70's/80's? Or is it more of a 'just not liking it because it is The Undertaker' kinda thing?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Some of the discussions in the thread has been face palm worthy. Like what the?




Clique said:


> Well I certainly got that feeling watching the End of an Era at WM28. Can you believe people think that match was only brawling and chair shots? The storytelling, drama and emotion in that match along with the intensity and brutality was off the page. It was almost like watching the finale of an epic movie.
> 
> Could the HBK/Flair-HBK/Batista-HBK/Jericho-HBK/Taker-Taker/HHH-Taker/HHH/HBK be the best arc in WWE history? From the wrestling to the promos to the matches to the finishes, it has been nothing short of what I'd call perfect storytelling. It's marvelous seeing how those feuds unfolded and transitioned to the next set of guys. WWE or someone should make a DVD on it. From 'Old Yeller' to 'End of an Era.' This stuff is of legend.


Most people who dislike the match aren't high on Triple H. At least, that's my observation. I also think people who didn't enjoy last year's match haven't enjoyed it this year too. It depends on how people perceive the match and I have to be honest: some were biased even before the bell rang.

Regardless, I agree with the "arc" you described. Every WrestleMania since 24 built the successor match and it all concluded with Hunter and Undertaker this year. The storytelling in each and every match is what places it in another category because there are very few matches with the same emotional value and the depth in the story than the matches you mentioned.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'd insert Cena/Trips and Cena/Shawn in that arc too.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Cena/Trips from Mania 22 was epic.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Yes, I thought about Cena/Michaels, but not Cena/Hunter.

It's true though. Amazing to look back in retrospect.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Finally saw Mark Henry vs. CM Punk and yeah, it's awesome. Watching that makes me regret to hell that they didn't do Henry vs. Bryan at WrestleMania. Same formula, Bryan is leagues better than Punk, smaller too. It would've been amazing. Loved the match, probably around the four star mark.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim you filthy homunculus product humanoid Philospher's stone you actually wound up thinking Henry/Punk deserved a higher rating than I did.

Every Henry/Bryan match from last year is really good. The lumberjack from this year is short but really neat for Bryan's dickishness too. I really want them to run Henry/Punk some more. Jericho feuds already tiring; that segment on the most recent Raw was really bad.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'd say that Punk|Henry was better than Jericho|Punk from Mania.

Why is Sheamus Champion on SmackDown and not Henry? I thought they pulled the title from Henry b/c of an injury but he's still going strong. WTF?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought the Henry loss was an injury-fuelled decision as well. Then he pops out wrestling performances here and there after losing the title and never actually left. 

I read that he was injured a little before being "suspended" from the elimination chamber, but I have no idea what happened last year.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Finally saw Mark Henry vs. CM Punk and yeah, it's awesome. Watching that makes me regret to hell that they didn't do Henry vs. Bryan at WrestleMania. Same formula, Bryan is leagues better than Punk, smaller too. It would've been amazing. Loved the match, probably around the four star mark.


:mark: awesome to see you love it. Yeah I really like Punk as a worker and think he's improved a lot the past year as a face worker to say how he was back in 2007/2008, but Bryan is without doubt the better worker heel/face for me. Part of Punk's problem is execution wise he leaves a lot to be desired (not that that matters an awful lot to me, he's great at what else I look for in a worker) and as a face worker he obviously goes through more of his offence than he would as a heel where he was restricted more to his signature offence. At the beginning some of his strikes looked really bad and were only made worse that Henry was his opponent and thus it looked even less impressive but thankfully by the end of the match his strikes were connecting much more crisply to the point where you could buy each shot slowly weakening Henry with every strike.

Bryan/Henry in the Steel Cage is still a worldwide MOTYC for 2011 for me, it goes 9 minutes but they use the Cage wondefully, build a great story around Henry's injured limb, work a terrific callback spot to their first match where Henry countered the Lebell Lock, only this time Bryan has a counter for that counter and it involves the busted ankle, Henry sells his ass off to make you believe his injury gives Bryan enough hope to win but still always looking killer on offence. Only bad thing is the finish whilst great in theory didn't look as awesome on impact and thus leaves a sour note after all the great work beforehand, still the mini Bryan/Henry feud was stupendous.



Yeah1993 said:


> Hohenheim you filthy homunculus product humanoid Philospher's stone you actually wound up thinking Henry/Punk deserved a higher rating than I did.
> 
> Every Henry/Bryan match from last year is really good. The lumberjack from this year is short but really neat for Bryan's dickishness too. I really want them to run Henry/Punk some more. Jericho feuds already tiring; that segment on the most recent Raw was really bad.


Yeah the Lumberjack match isn't as good as the 2 Big Show matches Bryan has from 01/04 and 01/10 on Smackdown but his character work might be better here than in either Show match. Taunting the lumberjacks, shouting he's the champion and warning them off of him and then working the lumberjacks into a brawl and casually walking away. Just brilliance.

I'm hoping Punk/Henry starts after Jericho leaves, if Punk drops the belt to Lesnar I'd love him to have a couple of matches v Henry beforehand which leaves Henry looking strong but raises Punk's credibility so his star shines brightest before they potentially give Lesnar the belt.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I'd say that Punk|Henry was better than Jericho|Punk from Mania.
> 
> Why is Sheamus Champion on SmackDown and not Henry? I thought they pulled the title from Henry b/c of an injury but he's still going strong. WTF?


There was a story where apparently Vince thought he was too injured to be Champion but not hurt enough to need time off. There was also rumours Henry hadn't signed a new contract and that was why he inexplicably went through that stage where he lost to the likes of Show and turned into a near jobber. Given his renewed push I'm guessing he's resigned.

Sheamus really needs to drop the belt soon, he's getting Cena like reactions now which isn't a good sign and Bryan really does have a lot more legs in his run as Champion, really starting to think the AJ angle is going to lead to her costing Sheamus the belt but wouldn't be surprised if I'm totally off on that one.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I can only give Punk/Henry ***1/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Word said:


> I can only give Punk/Henry ***1/4


Any reason in particular? I can appreciate my high rating was entirely down to the simple story and both men just displaying a range of qualities I appreciate more in wrestling these days, particular the character work from Henry, the selling from Punk and the excellent build to the eventual kick that took Henry down. Not to mention I adored the finish in protecting both men and feeling rather organic for a screwy finish, which isn't something I've come to expect from WWE TV Matches.


----------



## snoopy1239 (Jun 7, 2006)

Hey peeps. Was a bit bored today so thought I'd put fingers to keyboard and bash out a review of Wrestlemania. Might bash these out more regularly if people find it interesting/worthwhile.

The following review assumes that you have watched the show, and don’t require a tedious step-by-step recap.
*
Initial Thoughts:*

It’s been a while since I’ve anticipated a Wrestlemania as much as this one; I was like a child on Christmas Eve and must have watched the same Striker/Shaemus interview at least five times. The card was obviously strong, but unpredictability was also a lure. Trying to get into the mind of WWE creative is a fun, if somewhat frightening challenge, but one that can lead to countless debates with friends. It might also explain why PaddyPower decided to run a book for a prescripted event.

It’s impossible not to be excited about a match with that many Roman numerals.

*Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan **

No! No! No!

I almost shed a tear twice on the night, but for very different reasons. This was the first. Time was obviously a factor, but an ultimately unjustified one given how the show developed. If you have to go this route, then save it for Show/Rhodes – it just makes sense. Sadly, logic isn’t a strategy often employed by WWE.

Despite the weak lead-in (it’s already tough to buy the clash as a ‘Main Event’ given their demotion just 12 months prior), the fans were behind both men but robbed of a decent match due to atrocious booking. Sure, they surprised us, but for what purpose? It was merely a buzzkill, and the defiant Daniel Bryan chants continued for half the PPV.

The result doesn’t benefit either participant, but the biggest casualty is the title. If ever there were a final nail in the World Championship coffin, then this was it. This title – so rich in history – was murdered by Rousso, ‘handed’ to Triple H, passed around the likes of Swagger, Kane and co. like a hot potato, and now dealt a low blow of Chyna proportions on the biggest stage of them all.

It really wouldn’t surprise me if they gave Hornswaggle a run on Smackdown.
*
Randy Orton vs. Kane ***

Ah, the epic encounter sparked by a handshake! Amazing storytelling.

I foresaw this ‘spares tyres’ duel months ago, but I never predicted it would receive the rushed build-up they gave it, and you could see the participants felt the same. If WWE don’t care, then why should we?

It wasn’t as bad as many imagined, but it was hardly befitting of the stage and was obvious filler that could have been better utilised by Sheamus and Bryan. As for the swerve – meh, whatever; it just didn’t really matter who won, yet it mattered that someone lost: a monster who never wins is laughable, yet Randy Orton has already put over Henry, Barrett and the like and is danger of slipping into midcard!

I guess it’s ironic that there was no spark when Kane inexplicably wears a welder’s mask to the ring.
*
Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show ***

I’d been vying for a Golddust/Rhodes angle since pre-Rumble, yet was still intrigued by this match and looking forward to an inevitable payoff in which the water buffalo finally caught up with the cheetah. I was therefore a little befuddled that Show came out smiling and laughing and sharing his hat with the crowd (a more willing recipient, this time) rather than striding down like a rabid wolverine eying up a three-legged cat.

As for the match, it was okay, but fell into that awkward five-minute zone - either make it Bundy/Jones, or give Cody time to showcase his skills. I don’t mind Show winning as long as Cody receives his push and Show continues the belt’s recovery, which his tears suggested would be a feasible path.

*Kelly Kelly / Maria Menounos vs. Beth Phoenix/Eve ***

It’s always a concern when the highlight of a match is thinking a competitor has defecated mid-bout. I’ve seen worse Diva matches, but this was still throwaway and could only have been saved by a Kharma intervention, which obviously didn’t happen despite her random appearance at the Rumble. And what a shock – the face team won with a roll-up, and after one of the luke-warmest ‘hot tags’ I’ve ever seen. Sigh.

Fans are critical of the WWE’s treatment of the Tag-Team division, but the Women’s is worse. Kelly Kelly is as bland as oatmeal, Beth is given no viable competition whatsoever, and Natalya is stuck doing anal-wind gags – and it’s not as if storyline has been replaced with eye candy. It really feels as though WWE have given up on the division, which seems unjustified given the talent that is actually out there.

Still, I guess all shows need a piss break at some point.
*
Undertaker vs. Triple H ******

I was one of the many eye-rollers at first. A third match with Hunter? Seems like a lazy ego-inflater to me, and even if he won, it would still be 2-1. But, of course, the build-up was excellent, and Undertaker had a legitimate, and intriguing motive for requesting the match – within a week I was gripped. Throw in HBK and the Cell, and we have an epic encounter that you just knew wouldn’t fail.

At first, I was a little worried they were following the same path as last year: with Undertaker being dominated for most of the match before stealing an unlikely victory. We all knew who was going to win (if fucking Hunter ends the streak, then I riot in my lounge), so it was to creative’s credit that they managed to fool me on at least one near-fall, and I’m sure I wasn’t the only fan who marked out on the SCM/Pedigree combo.

There were also some great angles: HBK’s inner turmoil, Taker stopping him from making the call, the teased finish from last year. And when Taker stood on the sledgehammer, looked down on a defeated Hunter and smirked with a shake of the head, it was almost cinematic in its presentation. A defiant Hunter walking straight into the sledgehammer shot was the icing on a pretty delicious cake.

The cherry was the wrap-up, and the second near (tear)fall: the three legends of the industry, pillars of the company and loyal to the core, exiting together for what could be their last hurrah – and what a memorable one it would be. Wrestling is at its best when it forces us to suspend belief, but even better when it’s blurring the lines of reality: Taker’s welts, Triple H’s battered carcass, and the emotion etched on HBK’s face. It doesn’t get any better than this.

My only niggle was that the Cell seemed pointless, and the story could have been told just as effectively in a no-DQ match. Also, where does Taker go from here? Considering the punishment he took and the finishing moves he kicked out of, how can we possibly believe that he can be beaten? I’d love to see him take on Cena, Lesnar or Rock, or even elevate a younger talent (Ziggler, Miz, etc), but it’s a mighty tough sell that now makes me wonder if the streak can ever come to an end. Even if he faced Alien and Predator in a handicap match it would be hard to pick a winner.

*Team Teddy vs. Team Johnny ***

It’s a shame that instead of the classic Money in the Bank matches of yesteryear (even the overcrowded eight-man bouts) in which something truly worthwhile was at stake, we’re forced to settle for this uninvolved clusterfuck. Bragging Rights proved that no one has a particular allegiance to a certain brand, yet here we are again, watching 12 ‘extras’ fighting for power (not even their own!) in super XL T-shirts at the biggest event of the year.

Even then, they somehow managed to make Eve the focus, despite the absurdity of the angle. For a character who had so much momentum and fanfare, WWE have somehow buried Ryder into oblivion within the space of a few months. She announced her evil attentions on Raw, made out with another dude, and even fought as a heel earlier on in the show! Supporting Iced-Z has suddenly become very uncool.

*Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk *****

This match has divided critics considerably, but I think they did a grand job. True, there was a lack of chemistry at first, but Jericho’s bound to be a little rusty, and you can’t expect fast-paced chain wrestling and a perfect understanding of each other when they’ve never met before. I imagine it takes experience in wrestling a particular person to reach that level of fluency.

When they did find their momentum, it was great, and I think the finish was executed superbly with the reverse holds, near falls and Punk’s final readjustment to avoid the kicks to the head (which added realism). Apparently, the result was agreed months ago, but Jericho should be commended for putting over yet another talent so finely.

I do, however, think this match should have kicked off proceedings rather than following the emotionally draining Cell match. The crowd was buzzing initially, and what better way to light the fire than with a Best in the World squared match?
*
John Cena vs. The Rock *****

It was always going to be impossible to live up to the hype of a 12-month build-up, and they inevitably fell a smidgen short. Emotionally, I didn’t feel quite as invested as I’d hoped, perhaps because I’d become bored of watching the same promos, or maybe it was because I simply didn’t believe they truly disliked each other. I would love to have seen Cena slap the taste out of Rock’s mouth in the face-off, rather than just repeating the Rock/Hogan staredown and flat-falling show-of-strength that followed. It seemed unimaginative.

The match was good, but felt a little lethargic, and it was clear that Rock was bearing a little ring rust. There were respites when we needed action, but given the hiatus, Rock can be forgiven for needing the occasional breather. He still has the unrivalled ability to electrify a crowd, and no one lifts up that last-second shoulder like The Great One. And how often can you remember him flying from the top turnbuckle?

Despite the pacing issues, I remained on the edge of my seat throughout, mainly because they’d achieved that rare feat of leaving me in doubt of the finish – no clean conclusion made sense: Rock winning would bury Cena, whilst Cena winning would go against the traditional ‘feel good’ moment and denied us of what was a huge final pop.

As such, I was sure some thing controversial would happen. I was praying – admittedly, in vain – for a Cena heel turn following a Rock win (will there ever be a better opportunity?), or, at the least, a Lesnar run-in, but neither occurred, and I was left a little disappointed that such an monstruous build-up had led to Rock just going over cleanly. If it’s a set-up for a return match (once in a lifetime?), then it’s a promotional swerve I wouldn’t welcome and would surely take something away from that ‘WM moment’.
*
Overall ****

This was an above-average Wrestlemania. Many will rate it lowly based on the strength on the card, but when compared to previous Wrestlemanias (please, think back to XI), it was pretty entertaining.

Although not every match was a classic, there wasn’t a true stinker of the Lawler/Cole ilk (I vomit in my mouth just writing that) that made you want to punch a hole through the TV (monitor, if you’re naughty). And how can you argue with an event where someone elbow-drops a crab leg?

Did it live up to expectations? Not quite. But was it an entertaining four hours of man-on-man spandex-squeaking oiled-up action. Hell yeah. (I may edit out those adjectives later.) It's certainly a Wrestlemania I won't forget in a hurry.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Top 5 for the year:

1. The Undertaker v Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****1/4)
2. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****)
3. Raw Chamber - Elimination Chamber (***3/4)
4. CM Punk v Mark Henry - Raw 4/2/12 (***1/2)
5. CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - Raw 1/30/12 (***1/2)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

In terms of card depth I'd say Wrestlemania 28 was probably the weakest since 25, I'd place it above 25 but I found Wrestlemania 26 and 27 in terms of quality of matches to be far far better.

26 is criminally underrated by some largely due to the horrific Vince/Bret match and the clusterfuck Divas tag. However the main event is one of the best Mania matches of all time, Cena/Batista is a very good heavyweight bomb throwing match with some nice callbacks to Summerslam 2008, Edge/Jericho is rather mediocre but has a decent finishing stretch, the tag title match despite going under 5 minutes was great for the time it got, the Legacy 3 way was in the card filler position but delivered a harmless match with some good sequences (in this aspect it was better than say Cody/Show or Orton/Kane from 28), Sheamus/HHH was a good little bout with an impressive showing from Sheamus and Punk/Mysterio was an excellent sub 7 minute bout. 

27 whilst a clear step below still has Del Rio/Edge as a decent opener, hardly a blowaway match to start Wrestlemania and its just about 'good' given who's involved but still good viewing, Cody/Mysterio is a very good match with great callbacks to the feud and a nice display of hatred to reflect the personal nature of the feud, Punk/Orton was one of the better undercard matches in the last few years at Mania with some excellent selling by Orton made perfect by Punk's brilliant dickhead performance and facial expressions. HHH/Taker divides opinions but as a live spectacle it was incredibly engaging in the finishing stretch, although I'd put Orton/Punk as MOTN. Cena/Miz, the Corre tag and Lawler/Cole (see Lawler/Jimmy Hart 1980 for how to work that match right and get a damn good match as a result) are the major disappointments as well as the number of backstage segments and commercials which really hurt the overall flow of the ppv.

That being said, despite delivering in terms of good matches (26 far more than 27 IMO), both PPVs lacked that Wrestlemania feel and atmosphere to me. They felt like an excellent Summerslam PPV for example, but with WRESTLEMANIA you expect a bit more of the glitz and glamour and spectacle which I think these shows failed to capture despite being largely very good-great in terms of delivering more than a few good matches.

Wrestlemania 28 was for me the weakest in terms of card depth (though I suppose if you really love HIAC and Punk/Jericho and find Cena/Rock good people may put it above WM27), however it felt like a Wrestlemania. I just got this sense of spectacle and atmosphere that defines Wrestlemania as the biggest PPV of the year, they also got the overall pacing and structuring of the show well compared to last year minus the horrific decision to book the WHC squash as the opener which meant the first hour suffered in poor quality since Orton/Kane, the Divas tag nor Cody/Show could deliver a good-great match and thus it wasn't until HIAC when you got the sense business was about to pick up.

So yeah, after a lot of rambling I guess I'm trying to say this year WWE despite delivering a poorer overall card in terms of top-bottom match quality than what we've seen at Wrestlemania 26 and debatebly Wrestlemania 27 managed to strike a good balance between wrestling and atmosphere and as a result managed to make it feel like a truly massive event similar to Wrestlemania 24. It really felt like 'WRESTLEMANIA' as opposed to 26 and 27 which lacked that truly 'epic' atmosphere and spectacle that truly makes a Wrestlemania feel special.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

26 was actually a pretty great WM looking back:

ShoMiz vs. Morrison and Truth- ***
As said by Segunda, great match for such a short time. I honestly don't remember the match too well, but I remember it being a pretty good opener.

Orton vs. Rhodes vs. Dibiase- ***
I enjoyed this match quite a bit, and really liked the Rhodes/Dibiase exchange. It's amazing what happened with them. When Dibiase first debuted, just naturally he looked like the bigger star, but as Legacy progressed Rhodes' starpower rose and Dibiase's had shrunk. They were about even at Mania, but by the time they got together in 2011, Rhodes had far surpassed Dibiase. Amazing. But yeah, overall it was a very good match and Orton getting the win and cementing his face status (if it wasn't already cemented by then) was good. 

MITB- ***1/4
Not the greatest MITB, but as usual was a fun match. I still lol at how long it took Swagger to unhook the briefcase. Him winning was a huge shocker. Then he won the World Title a couple of nights later... and then went on to have one of if not the worst title reign of all time. I hope Swagger enjoyed the moment, because it'll probably never happen again. Also this was the last MITB match at Mania. 

HHH vs. Sheamus- ***1/4
Actually this was a good little match. Nothing too spectacular, but Sheamus hung in there with HHH. It was also nice to see HHH in an under-card match for Mania for the first time in at least 10 years, and while Sheamus didn't look spectacular in defeat, he didn't look bad either. Overall I'd actually say it's better than all of HHH's WM singles main events. 

Punk vs. Mysterio- ***1/2
MOTN to this point, and even though it was short, it was very, very sweet. Honestly wish they would've been given more time, but Punk and Mysterio do have some great chemistry. At least the series continued. Mysterio beating Punk though was kinda lame, but what can you do? 

Bret Hart vs. Vince McMahon- DUD
Who would've thought Bret Hart would be in the worst Wrestlemania match of all time? Or one of the worst anyway... since King/Cole at WM27 definitely gives it a run for it's money. I mean god, it was only 11 minutes apparently but I remember watching it and feeling like an hour had passed. Just awful.

Edge vs. Jericho- ****
Excellent match between the two. It was a rock solid bout from top to finish, and the finish was great. Edge brought his A-game for Mania... which all things considered isn't saying much, but Jericho's A-game kept the match afloat. The better of the two title matches and an excellent one at that. I was kinda hoping for Edge to take the gold, but at the same time I felt a Jericho win would be more beneficial for when Edge did finally capture the World Title from Jericho. It made Jericho look strong but didn't do anything to Edge's credibility. Of course, all of it didn't matter because later in the week Jack Thwagger took the title off Jericho.

Cena vs. Batista- ***3/4
A great heavyweight match between the two. I prefer their Summerslam 08match, but this was great as well. They do have some chemistry and the storytelling in the match was good. The workrate was okay, and while Batista tapping out is something I didn't feel should happen (he should've been pinned), I guess it was still an okay finish. Cena becomes champ again, and Batista is at the tail end of his career. Great match.

Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels- ****1/2
Fantastic match. Great wrestling, psychology, storytelling, ending, and pace. On paper looking at this next to their WM25 match, I should put it above their WM26 match, but there is a lot more to it that I explained a short time ago, and won't go into detail again. Still it was a classic match and a great way for Shawn to go out.

So yeah, really the only bad match was the Hart/McMahon match... and the divas match which I can't remember at all. But I really like how for most of the night the matches seemed to just get better each and every match. Starts off good with the tag, the triple threat tops that, the MITB tops that, HHH/Sheamus is on-par with that, Mysterio/Punk tops that, Edge/Jericho tops that, Batista/Cena holds it's own, and it tops off with a classic main event. I actually need to go back and watch the event though. 




> Punk/Orton was one of the better undercard matches in the last few years at Mania with some excellent selling by Orton made perfect by Punk's brilliant dickhead performance and facial expressions. HHH/Taker divides opinions but as a live spectacle it was incredibly engaging in the finishing stretch, although I'd put Orton/Punk as MOTN.


You too? High-five!

WM27:

Edge/Del Rio- ***1/2 (It gets a little boost from me for being Edge's last match)
Rhodes/Mysterio- ***1/4
8-man tag- * (Don't remember this match too well besides it being a squash)
Orton/Punk- ***1/2
Cole/Lawler- DUD
Undertaker/HHH- ***1/2
6-mixed tag match- ... don't remember this at all.
Miz vs. Cena- *3/4


WM28 (I re-watched most matches earlier in the week):

Sheamus/Bryan- 1/4*
Kane/Orton- ***1/4
Show/Rhodes- *1/2
Divas Tag- 1/2*
Undertaker/HHH- ****
Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy- ***
Punk/Jericho- ****1/4 
Cena/Rock- ***1/2

So I definitely get what Segunda is saying. I'd still put it above WM27 since Kane/Orton to me was a good match, Taker/HHH was better than the previous year, Punk/Jericho was fantastic, and Cena/Rock was a great main event. I'd put Punk/Jericho, Taker/HHH, and Cena/Rock all above every match from the previous year. Also WM27 had Cole/Lawler, which was far worse than the Bryan squash and the divas tag match combined.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> Any reason in particular? I can appreciate my high rating was entirely down to the simple story and both men just displaying a range of qualities I appreciate more in wrestling these days, particular the character work from Henry, the selling from Punk and the excellent build to the eventual kick that took Henry down. Not to mention I adored the finish in protecting both men and feeling rather organic for a screwy finish, which isn't something I've come to expect from WWE TV Matches.


Wasn't really a lover of the finish really, as soon as Punk left the ring I knew the match was over as did a few of the crowd. Yeah I was a very good match, especially for a TV show portraying a simple David and Goliath story. Punk sells well but don't really praise selling unless you do a Benoit at WM 21 and sell perfectly. I mean it's not hard to sell a back injury although Cena would pop up here as his selling is awful, he always forgets, maybe because he is superman.

I know time shouldn't be a factor, as I have an 8 minute Punk/Rey from WM 26 at ***1/2 but this was around 10 minutes, I enjoyed it but nowhere near for me anyway a **** rating match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't get that bit about 'don't praise selling', I mean reading your post it sounds like you're saying Benoit's performance renders praising of selling obsolete since it may not be as good as his. I could be reading into that entirely wrong tbh, but that's how it came across at first glance. Rest of your argument is sound and concise though.

Personally I loved the finish since it felt like the culmination of all of Punk's desperation offence working long enough to weaken Henry, however true to the theme of the match Henry was still a physical force to be able to dish out one last counter to halt Punk's momentum. Punk not making the 10 count was a certainty by the 6 count but I'd look past that and focus on it being a finish that built off of all of Henry's offence and Punk's injury from the night before, as well as the finish only occurring because Punk had finally managed to weaken Henry which he'd struggled to do all match. Felt like a real 'icing on the cake' sort of finish in paying off to all the work beforehand, rather than a cheap DQ or intereferance finish that would have killed the match dead.

@*Obis*, I actually think Wrestlemania 26 as a top to bottom show would be pushing my top 5 Wrestlemania's. Hard to think off the top of my head but 24, 23, 22, maybe 21 would be close. 17 isn't the super duper awesome show to me that others think of it but it would be in contention for maybe the 5th spot, 19 I haven't seen in forever.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cena/Batista and Edge/Jericho are probably the most overrated matches in WM history. What a pile of mediocrity.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

A certain match from Wrestlemania 12 and a certain match from Wrestlemania 21 would be bigger candidates for more overrated IMO.

Cena/Batista isn't blowaway awesome, but I dug it as two big dudes beating the shit out of each other, some fairly impressive counters and transitions and the callback spot to Cena's injury at Summerslam 2008. Far from a great match but I think there's enough in there for it to hold its own as a good main event match compared to say Orton/HHH, HHH/Cena/Orton from 24, Orton/Angle/Rey from 22, Cena/JBL, HHH/Batista etc.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I'll have to watch the match again, it's getting too much love. 

In regards to selling I don't think it's hard to hold your back when you get flung around or collapse whilst attempting the GTS. If you and I were wrestlers we could sell easily, it isn't exactly hard. In regards to Benoit at Mania, it was his overall performance and determination to win that title but failing many times and in doing so taking huge bumps and it felt to me anyway that he was genuinely battered and bruised and that the MITB physically destroyed him. That's alot different than holding your back.

If we look at Cena/Michaels from Wrestlemania 23, Cena started to no sell the leg when Michaels was working on it for a good 5 minutes and Michaels was genuinely pissed about it. It's not hard to hobble around the ring is it? In Cena case it was.

I love Mania 26, one of my favourite shows ever apart from Vince/Bret.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, Edge/Jericho and Cena/Batista did nothing for me. HBK/Taker isn't a great match to me either, so you can see why I think WM26 isn't too spectacular.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Word said:


> I'll have to watch the match again, it's getting too much love.
> 
> In regards to selling I don't think it's hard to hold your back when you get flung around or collapse whilst attempting the GTS. If you and I were wrestlers we could sell easily, it isn't exactly hard. In regards to Benoit at Mania, it was his overall performance and determination to win that title but failing many times and in doing so taking huge bumps and it felt to me anyway that he was genuinely battered and bruised and that the MITB physically destroyed him. That's alot different than holding your back.
> 
> If we look at Cena/Michaels from Wrestlemania 23, Cena started to no sell the leg when Michaels was working on it for a good 5 minutes and Michaels was genuinely pissed about it. It's not hard to hobble around the ring is it? In Cena case it was.


Well yeah selling is incredibly simple in terms of limping, incorporating the injury into spots etc. Still I don't see how its simplicity takes away from someone executing it well, I mean Eddie sells the blood loss (ok more legit than performance selling) and beating at Judgement Day 2004 as well as anyone has sold a beating, I don't think it makes his selling any less impressive and emotionally engaging just because its something all workers should theoretically be able to do (selling in general, his selling isn't something you'll see for a long time).

Cena's a great seller in terms of bumping and making you engrossed in the workover, his long term limb selling leaves a lot to be desired but he actually takes a beating as good as anyone on the roster, of course the fact he's so polarizing in terms of support/heat only adds to the match and workover, but he's still a great seller in terms of eating offence and making you wondering how he can comeback: Umaga series is probably the best display of this.

As for Wrestlemania 23, on last watch I'm pretty sure Cena shaking off the legwork didn't bother me too much, I don't recall HBK spending a great deal of time on the workover, rather something like a couple of minutes of focus before switiching his offence. Pretty sure off of memory Cena shakes his leg a bit afterwards and then gradually sells it less and less which as I said on last watch wasn't much of an issue. Pretty sure it felt like a temporary form of HBK retaining control rather than a workover he was basing as his best hope of winning the match, so it never felt essential and the entire focus of his offence nor did it play overly into the match story: as opposed to HBK/Jericho Wrestlemania 19 and the blowing off of Jericho's backwork.

Of course I haven't seen it for a while, but I'm definitely sure HBK's leg work didn't come off as a long workover by conventional limb workover segments.

@*Yeah1993* you're lack of love for HBK/Taker II makes me a sad panda. I honestly thought it had the more subtle elements of a great match compared to Wrestlemania 25 which was built on the exchanges, though the atmosphere and spectacle is understandable in creating emotion in the match.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I want to see selling don't get me wrong but I wouldnt really in the Henry/Punk match when talking about the good points would be the selling, just didn't really add to the match. Having said that I do like to see selling and will obviously praise it when necessary.

I don't buy the fact about wondering how Cena will fightback as its too anticlimactic for me, that's not taking away he's a fantastic worker, just not a lover of that side of his gimmick.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think Cena's comebacks have progressively gotten less dramatic the longer he's stayed on top, that I can certainly agree with. Still seeing some of the beatings he takes against the likes of Umaga, JBL, Lashley, Orton, Show, hell even the decent Khali match from ONS: his charisma draws me into his beating and like I said the crowd heat for/against him only adds to the match and makes it less painful to sit through than the same workover being done to dead silence. That's not meant to read as a poor crowd=bad match, just that in Cena's case the crowd constantly being animated always helps the match tick along for me rather than meandering to the finish, though this has slowly decreased since say 2008 compared to what we have today.

As for a final point on Punk/Henry, I enjoyed the selling because it added to Punk's ordeal. Like facing Henry 100% is bad enough but seeing him time after time try to mount a comeback only to get swatted away and then get his back further torn to shreads felt like when he finally DID put the big man down it felt like a huge moment because he'd been looking for that bit of offence the entire match. If he isn't hurt going in and doesn't get further worked over like he did I doubt I'd have bought that spot as well as I did, and the crowd losing their shit for it as well only added to my enjoyment for the buildup to it.


----------



## ParsFan1991 (Apr 12, 2012)

What are you guys thoughts on Mania 14?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

One of the most epic Manias ever, not in terms of star ratings, but in terms of general feel and overall entertainment value.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I actually enjoyed with his matches with Khali too strangely enough. Maybe it's because I'm getting older and I don't want much wrestling anymore, I just don't appreciate the way Cena finishes many of his matches even if it's toned down because I always expect it. I like Cena though, I respect his work and admire what he has done for this company.

Different strokes on Punk/Henry, maybe well agree with another match sometime soon.

WM 14 is pretty good, nothing amazing but consistent attitude era matches.

I've also been flicking through every PPV in 1999 and what's common is the lack of match quality in the undercard. The only thing that kept many of the PPVs alive was the main events as they were usually stacked with Austin, Trips, Rocky, Taker and Kane. Okay the matches were more entertaining back then but PPV quality today apart from 2000 is very strong. People are just too quick to criticise.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*CM Punk vs Mark Henry (WWE Raw; 2012/04/02)*
Not as high on this match as others and I didn't understand the hype for it on my first viewing, but after a rewatch I can see the neat little things I missed out on because of me getting easily distracted because of the 'YES!' chants. Looking back in retrospect, those chants may of actually hurt the match. It seemed as if the crowd were more entertained by chanting rather than enjoying the match, but at times, they benefited the match by adding Punk's comebacks. Punk still sold the damage from his previous match with Jericho and combined with Henry's awesome trash-talking really made Henry look unbeatable. This match tells the classic tale of 'underdog babyface faces huge monster heel' and it does that very well.
****3/4*

*Best of WWE in 2012:*
1. Punk vs Jericho (WrestleMania; 04/01) *****1/4*
2. Punk vs Bryan (Raw; 01/31) *****1/4*
3. Punk vs Henry (Raw; 04/02) ****3/4*
4. Kofi vs Ziggler (Superstars; 03/08) ****3/4*
5. Punk vs Ziggler (Royal Rumble; 01/30) ****1/2*

Only a rough draft. Anything from this year I should watch?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Punk/Ziggler 2/3 falls on a House Show is getting some praise as a damn fun match and an example of WWE doing a great house show match.

Superstars hasn't been great, Hunico v Kidd was on last week but I wasn't feeling it much at all and definitely can't see you thinking its a MOTYC or even worth watching. Sets up a rematch potentially well, but as a lead in it wasn't much due to the commercial break cutting Hunico's heat section out entirely.

If you can find it I know the Mania tag title pre show match got a good review from a lot of folk, a bit spotty by all accounts but that's what you expect in a 3 way tag team match.

Bryan/Orton's first match was going really well until the finish. Thought they mixed well and Bryan looked damn good as the opportunistic heel capitalising on any flaw in Orton's game. I do remember some of Orton's comeback feeling a bit forced however, sometimes WWE face comebacks come off too choereographed with the heel repeatedly bumping in combo fashion and Orton's is usually as bad as anyone's when it comes to not mixing it up in that regard.

Orton/Kane Street Fight from last week was apparently better than the Wrestlemania bout according to Cal.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

More on Undertaker's DVD



> WWE Undertaker: The Streak is now available to pre-order on DVD and Blu-ray formats at Amazon .The listings confirm what we previously revealed, that there will be *4 Disc DVD and 3 Disc Blu-ray versions*


http://www.amazon.com/Undertaker-Th...1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1334278941&sr=1-1


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What's a good PPV to watch from last year? 



Segunda Caida said:


> Orton/Kane Street Fight from last week was apparently better than the Wrestlemania bout according to Cal.


Around the same level as the Wrestlemania match, maybe slightly better, meaning it's a good match but not a great one. Does anyone else think Kane has improved as a worker since his return? I haven't seen a bad match from him since I started back watching wrestling. That's not saying a whole lot because I've only seen his three PPV bouts this year and now this SmackDown street fight with Orton but he's looked good in all of them.

Punk is the wrestler of the year by a distance at this point.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Money in the Bank was really fucking good.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Segunda Caida said:


> A certain match from Wrestlemania 12 and a certain match from Wrestlemania 21 would be bigger candidates for more overrated IMO.
> 
> Cena/Batista isn't blowaway awesome, but I dug it as two big dudes beating the shit out of each other, some fairly impressive counters and transitions and the callback spot to Cena's injury at Summerslam 2008. Far from a great match but I think there's enough in there for it to hold its own as a good main event match compared to say Orton/HHH, HHH/Cena/Orton from 24, Orton/Angle/Rey from 22, Cena/JBL, HHH/Batista etc.


The Wrestlemania 21 match gets the correct rating most of the time. Anywhere from ****1/4 to ****3/4 sometimes. I have never seen someone give it the full 5.

The Wrestlemania 12 ironman match is very quickly becoming the most underrated match of all time. There was a time where it was called the greatest match of all time. Thats when it was overrated. These days though, its the most underrated match ever. I have seen low ratings anywhere from DUD to **1/2. Everyone these days is underrating it. When was the last time you have seen someone give it a ****1/2 or the full 5 stars? Hell, when was the last time someone gave it 4 stars? Everyone bitches on this match right now, but it is still a very solid match.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Ownage™ said:


> What's a good PPV to watch from last year?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kane really has done well since his return he feels very agile and whilst alot of people doubted him when he was facing Orton at Wrestlemania I knew it would be an at least decent match. And it was and so was the Smackdown brawl.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Yeah, what Sparta said on the Iron Man Match. From being an overrated match for many, it is a match that--collectively is trashed upon by the majority.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'd give the Ironman match around three stars for the sheer magnitude of it. I don't think it's particularly great tho.

Punk vs. Mysterio from WrestleMania is probably the best 7 minute match ever.

A question, what do people think is better? Batista/Cena from Mania 26 or Rock/Cena from Mania 28?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Vader13 said:


> I actually only made those comments to get an answer out of him, which worked. You have the complete opposite opinions to me I think, TJC. Would you say that you aren't a fan of the slower pace of wrestling? Have you seen much Memphis work from the 70's/80's? Or is it more of a 'just not liking it because it is The Undertaker' kinda thing?


No, I have not seen any of the Memphis work from any year (unless WWE has done televised shows from the city.) I can be _very_ into "slower" wrestling though. I also don't think it is just b/c of who it is; As I said before, there was a time I was a fan of the man's work & a few of his individual matches... Just none in recent memory.

Also, while I'm at it, I'll answer what Macho said: I am here to discuss pro wrestling b/c I like a lot of it, & I like to discuss my opinions on it & those of others. If you don't get that, Macho, then you are "way off homie".

Lastly, I agree that the Kane-Orton match on "SD" was better than the one at Mania. (Much like the Undertaker now, I was once famous on the Net for my dislike of Orton, but have enjoyed him for a while now.)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> A question, what do people think is better? Batista/Cena from Mania 26 or Rock/Cena from Mania 28?


Rock/Cena. Both matches were like clash of titans encounters (neither as good as Taker/Batista) but I enjoyed Rock/Cena much more. The atmosphere is better, Cena is better, Rock is better than Batista here and I thought it was structured better. I love how Rock went back to his Maivia days with the cross body and how Cena got overconfident and lost it all in the end.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I think Rock/Cena would've been loads better if they just cut the bout down to 20 minutes (and maybe dispense with the terrible Bearhugs). There was no need to go 30.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I think Rock/Cena would've been loads better if they just cut the bout down to 20 minutes (and maybe dispense with the terrible Bearhugs). There was no need to go 30.


I can't recall a single match I ever saw a reason for the bearhugs. That said, I would have had no problem with that match (like Bryan/Sheamus) being longer, so long as they change the way it ended (not who won, but how).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

A couple of things I really liked in Cena/Batista was the callback spot when Batista caught Cena off the top rope and slammed him like he did when he broke his neck at SSlam 08. And I like when Cena did the 'conquering his demons spot' when he hit the Five Knuckle Shuffle off the top rope on Batista.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Agree with Clique on everything he said. 

Also agree with Hohenheim. Checking the reuslts for WMX8, Rock/Hogan went 16:23 and did pretty much everything better than this year's match. I can't imagine Rock/Hogan for 30 minutes in 2002 being better than Rock/Cena for 30 minutes in 2012. Should have chopped like half of Rock/Cena.

Lil' bit I wrote on Hart/Shawn recently: 


> looked eh from the beginning. Bret's control segments- hell, in the whole match- were pretty dull. Kept this regular lock on and did nothing special except move his head and look around. I thought outside of the dry areas, this is a pretty damn good match. It honestly could have been great had they shaved off 35 minutes and took Shawn out-doing Bret, some struggles, the time-keeper bump, Bret going a little mad on Michaels and Lothario, and the exhaustion moment where HBK couldn't even capitalize on his first superkick. Bret going back to a headlock with 8 minutes remaining makes sense b/c he thought a draw would keep him the Title, but...you've gone fifty minutes, none of the last ten should be a rest-hold. Not a great match, but the hour wasn't long and dragging, mostly.


All in all good, but Piper/Goldust from the same night is better. Irom man would probably look like an excellent match with a well done JIP-job.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rock/Brock was 16 minutes too. Talk about a big clash main event with a hot crowd.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't seen Cena/Batista since it happened so my memory of it is a bit hazy but I'm pretty sure I liked it more than I did Cena/Rock, and I liked Cena/Rock just fine. If I had to choose to re-watch one of the two it would definitely be Cena/Batista.


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

Wow, Rock/Cena was half an hour!? Seemed like it was abut 10 minutes sitting in the Stadium.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Sparta101 said:


> The Wrestlemania 21 match gets the correct rating most of the time. Anywhere from ****1/4 to ****3/4 sometimes. I have never seen someone give it the full 5.
> 
> The Wrestlemania 12 ironman match is very quickly becoming the most underrated match of all time. There was a time where it was called the greatest match of all time. Thats when it was overrated. These days though, its the most underrated match ever. I have seen low ratings anywhere from DUD to **1/2. Everyone these days is underrating it. When was the last time you have seen someone give it a ****1/2 or the full 5 stars? Hell, when was the last time someone gave it 4 stars? Everyone bitches on this match right now, but it is still a very solid match.


To me that's still pushing it too far for Angle/HBK, I'd go around ***1/4-***1/2 on last watch. I can see why people adore it though, but its still a match with both worker's flaws on display.

I really don't think the Ironman is that underrated, Yeah1993's thoughts are pretty much bang on point although I don't think its that good in most places. Early story of Michaels outwrestling Bret is well done, but then all the arm work used to weaken Bret is no sold from the second half of the match and that just renders everything prior to it pointless since it doesn't play a part in a sport or the overall story. Neither man really wanted to make the other look as good as they could and I just couldn't get into the match much at all. Admittedly I find Bret dull as dish water a lot of times these days so an hour of him was always going to be a struggle but yeah, there's plenty of Wrestlemania matches and other matches in general I'd point to as being way more underrated.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

For as "technical" and "scientific" as Hart's labelled, he's pretty clearly most fun to watch when beating the shit out of someone.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah, I enjoy him in the Austin matches and thought he was great in one of the Diesel matches where it was a total Bret formula match in slowly chopping down the big man. But yeah, 'mixing holds' Bret doesn't do much for me these days. It might be a stupid reason but it feels too clean and by the numbers, I've used Andy's point about comparing Arn and Bret when working a hold and that's still about as good a reason as I can muster for why I prefer watching guys like Arn, so much more going on in between holds to keep your interest going.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

Thoughts on Batista/HHH from Vengeance 05 - HIAC.

Just rewatched it thought it was great. **** plus.


----------



## ConnorMCFC (Mar 12, 2012)

My take on WM 14. Posted it in the youtube section but wasn't getting much views. Planning on doing some more wrestling videos.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Thoughts on Taker/HHH from 28?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Thoughts on Taker/HHH from 28?


****3/4 for me..one of my favorite matches ever.
the only problem i have about the match that they didn't use the cell alot but overall it didn't hurt the match for me.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Thoughts on Taker/HHH from 28?


Enjoyable when watching the PPV live, but it's really not going to hold up on a rewatch for me. I have it at ***** now and I've seen it as high as ******* and as low as a *DUD*. Too much cheesy drama and not enough action. Last year's match was much better.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Batista/HHH is probably the third best Cell match. HBK/Taker clearly ahead as the best and probably Lesnar/Taker from No Mercy, though I wouldn't be surprised if I preferred HHH/Batista on another watch. Felt like the sort of match HHH excels at no matter my general apathy towards a lot of his work, felt hate filled and truly a definitive feud ender.

HHH/Taker to me is probably even more of a divisive match than last year's, its either the pinnacle of WWE Main Event wrestling for you (i.e the acting, the story arc from last year and HBK's matches with Taker, the big finishing stretches, the emotion of HHH telling HBK to end it etc) and as a result will get a ****1/2-***** rating.....or you find it over the top and maybe trying to hard to envoke drama and story and EMOTION and you think its flawed. 

I think both matches live were great viewing because you bought the nearfalls a lot more (not to mention Taker bumped like a fucking lunatic in both), but on rewatches they don't have the subtle touches of a great match in between the sequences and moves. I find Taker/HBK Wrestlemania 26 to be far and away better than either HHH/Taker match or HBK/Taker 25, I thought the storytelling and drama was expertly done in a way that it was obvious but didn't feel choregoraphed and cheesy. Maybe I'm too cynical but the dialogue in the HIAC was too over the top for me, 'END IT OR I WILL, SHAWN DON'T END IT'. I mean there's communication in matches and all that shit but I thought this went too far into trying to create the most dramatic match possible.

There's no middle ground though IMO, you either get caught up in the drama and storytelling or you find it cheesy and lacking any depth behind the moves. HBK/Taker combined the sequences with a simpler and better executed story to me and that's why I infinitely prefer their series, I mean my opinion of Michaels as a worker post 2002 isn't high at all but he's still far and away more engrossing and watchable to me than HHH.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/HBK from WM 26 was great but i think it's overrated when people think it was better than Taker/HBK WM 25.

Taker/HBK WM 25 *****
Taker/HBK WM 26 ****1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That is a recurring theme, I can understand the Houston crowd, the spectacle and character dynamic pulling more people in to the 25 match. However I found it closer to HHH/Taker and some indy matches in terms of both men pulling out all their biggest moves but the general story being little more than 'can HBK win'. In fairness with the Tombstone kickout they expanded upon that story and actually built intrigue into whether Taker's character was for once fearful of his opponent wanting it more. Its certainly not a spotfest or anything like that....but I find the match gets talked about for the pacing and sequences rather than the storytelling or drama. Though Taker's botched dive certainly added a lot of drama with people thinking he was legit fucked.

26 though for me still has the impressive sequences and chemistry...but its got so much more. Taker's knee buckling on Old School, it looked as legit an injury as I've seen since he sold it in a way that it was obvious it was hurt but at the same time you bought it as a legit tweak rather than him overselling it. Then of course HBK fakes him out with SCM and then works the leg knowing Taker is legit hurt, a nice callback to 25 where I'm sure HBK tried to fake an injury or something to create an opportunity. During the workover Shawn busts out the inverted figure four which he hadn't used to my recollection since the Flair feud, again putting over the importance of the match and him busting out everything in his arsenal.

Then you have the callback spot to No Way Out 2006 with HBK countering Hells Gate into the pinning position Angle won with out of the Triangle Choke, the closest thing to a botch in HBK's moonsault through the table actually adds to the match as he lands on Taker's injured knee. Then of course you get the best finish of this entire story arc: Shawn had played the role of Flair from 2 years before expertly and it all built to the finish where like Flair he knew he was done, Taker took pity as Shawn had earnt his respect from his efforts in both matches but Shawn stayed true to what Flair did at 24 and manned up and knew he'd lost and had to pay the ultimate price and goaded Taker into the mother of all Tombstones for the finish. The selling, psychology, callback spots to old matches, lack of rough execution of a couple of spots and storytelling playing off of the Flair/HBK arc was just wonderful and created enhanced depth behind all the moves.

Sadly 25 meant a lot of finishers weren't believebale near falls and the crowd certainly weren't as good as the Houston crowd (at least on TV), but there's enough depth and story behind the moves in the match for me to look past the fact that a few of the finishers weren't believeable as the finish. The story was simple and done as well as it could have, Taker put in the best performance of anyone in this entire arc with his selling and personal confliction in actually ending the match and Shawn to his credit went out on a great performance: busting out old moves and brilliantly working callback spots into some of his offence to put over the desperate situation he was in.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Randomness:

- Michaels/Angle from 'Mania 21 is EPIC. Fantastic match that signifies a typical, high-profiled WWE match.

- Batista/Hunter is the best Cell match. Yes.

- Bret/Diesel from the Rumble might be better than ALL of Bret's so called technical classics, bar WrestleMania X. 




Hohenheim of Light said:


> A question, what do people think is better? Batista/Cena from Mania 26 or Rock/Cena from Mania 28?


Rock/Cena for me.

The thing is I'm not big on Cena/Batista or anything else from WrestleMania 26, except that one masterpiece.

As you said later, Rock/Cena could have been so much better in a 20 minute match as opposed to what they got. In fact, if 10 minutes were added to Bryan/Sheamus; the entire thing would have turned out to be excellent. Personally, Rock/Cena was a big deal for me and as far as the match quality goes, I'd still say it was better than Batista/Cena. It's not saying a lot because I don't think both had enough quality, as compared to the matches that stole the show in their respective events.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Catching up on some of what's been said:

Bret/HBK Iron Man - *** MAX

Cena/Batista >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cena/Rock. Hogan/Rock was far far better than Cena/Rock too. I honestly thought Cena/Rock was pretty bad. Atmosphere was the only thing good in it, and even that didn't seem too great at points (though it is hard to tell with open air arenas on TV)

Undertaker/HHH WM 28 > WM 27

Undertaker/HBK WM 26 > WM 25


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

How come you were de-modded?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I asked .


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

Cal what are your thoughts on Batista vs HHH - HIAC


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Incredible match, and one of the best HIAC matches ever... yet only the SECOND best HIAC match for that year imo lol. ****1/2 for it. Shame it all went downhill from there for Batista until his 07 feud with Undertaker.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

KingCal said:


> I asked .


Lame.

That HIAC your on about is pretty damn amazing, along with the PPV itself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Started my Raw 06 Project again. Got up to WM last time, but I really couldn't be arsed to get the DVD out and watch it so I've skipped it for now and started from the Raw after. Here are some reviews for the better matches, and then list of STARS~! for all that I have watched (I'm just watching matches that interest ME btw, not everything lol):

*Shelton Benjamin Vs Charlie Hass - Raw 17/04/2006*

If Shelton wins, his match with RVD at Backlash is for the MITB briefcase. If he loses, the match at Backlash is for Shelton's IC title. Charlie Hass being his opponent is a surprise. I still remember not caring when it first happens. LOL. Hassucks.

Hass starts throwing Shelton around with a German and a bunch of awesome looking arm drags (even if you could see them coming a mile away), and Shelton can do nothing but ask Charlie "What are you doing?". Kicking your ass, Shelton. Duh. Very nice cut off spot from Shelton that transitions into his control. A couple of weeks ago in the Chavo match he did a really nice cut off leading into his control segment too. Its been so long since I first started this project I don't remember much about Shelton's matches, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was something he did really well in most of his matches and something I really liked from those matches too lol. Kinda reminds me of Kennedy from 06 too in that way; both seem to find openings in really unique and pretty awesome ways.

They work a little of the "they know each other so well" spots into the match, not as much as I would have liked, but then again this WAS just a surprise match on TV. Based on this match I wouldn't have minded them to have a PPV match together.

As well as working that little "story" in the match, Shelton also works his feud with RVD into the match too when he mocks his "RVD" thumb pose thingy and does a rolling thunder too. Then he proceeds to destroy Hass with a pretty impressive kick to the head, similar to what we see Punk do these days. He even attempts a 5 Star Frog Splash, but Hass moves, and even though Shelton rolls through, Hass is able to get a surprise pin on Shelton!

Yeah, this was really good. DEFINITELY would have liked them to have done a PPV match, but since RVD was Shelton's opponent at Backlash and this was during the brand extension (when it meant something) with PPV's ever 2 months, I highly doubt they could have kept a feud going between the two because Shelton was pretty damn horrible on the mic and I don't recall Hass being any better . At least this was a good match.

*Rating: ***1/4*

*Edge & John Cena Vs Triple H - Handicap Match - Raw 17/04/2006*

An interesting way to build to a triple threat, by having a handicap match every week involving all 3 guys. And having each match under 10 minutes. Guess it gives us a bit of a taste of what we can expect without them spending too much time in the ring with each other at once, and builds some tension between them as they team up with each other despite the fact they don't like each other, and try to get the win to benefit themselves rather than their "team".

This should hopefully be the better of the 3 matches too, because it means I won't have to sit through a period of Edge Vs Cena .

Cena and HHH work a nice little match together, with Cena dominating HHH, then HHH coming back with a Spinebuster. Edge tags himself in, gives Cena the thumbs up, then knocks him out of the ring and he and HHH go at it until Cena gets back in attacks Edge.

Ref bump, and HHH looks super happy because now he can bring his friend Mr Sledgehammer to the ring. Hi Mr Sledgehammer! Cena takes a bump from thin air (aka HHH missing him completely while swinging the hammer), and Edge catches the Game with a Spear for the 3 count!

Yeah, this was definitely the best of the 3 matches. None of them were exactly "good", but I enjoyed how they used them to build to the triple threat.

*Rating: **3/4*

*Shane McMahon Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 24/04/2006*

HBK takes one hell of a bump off the ring post. Shawn does it in a way that looks like he legit went head first, and managed to slap it hard enough to give off one hell of a sound. Unless, you know, that was actually his head .

Nice back work from Shane. He actually does stuff that I've not really seen anyone else do before, and tbh I never understood why. Its basic, just driving the elbows into the back while Shawn is on the mat, but for some reason nobody else bothers with it. Looks brutal and is a nice way to at least start the back work before they go into submissions and shit. Awesome torture rack from Shane too, and he turns it into a spinny slamming type thing. That's the technical name for it. Honest. Nice moonsault too, but HBK moves and begins his comeback, no selling his back and all! 

Vince stops Shawn from landing Sweet Chin Music (for the second week in a row), and Shawn wants revenge by flying off the ropes and elbow dropping Vince through the announcers table! But of course he doesn't get to do it . Instead Shane saves him and Vince fucking KO's Shawn with a ring bell shot that looked sick as hell, and its SHANE that flies from the top rope onto the announcer's table, elbow dropping HBK! 

Not sure what the official ending for this match is. DQ? No Contest? Double Countout? Ah who fucking cares. Was a ton of fun. Shane looked great in all of this too btw. Should have been World Champion. After all, he does moonsaults and elbow drops from the ropes through tables, so he's like, better than Cena, yeah?

*Rating: ****


*The Spirit Squad Vs Triple H, John Cena & Edge - Handicap Match - Raw 24/04/2006*

The Spirit Squad... were they only brought up to the main roster to be bumpers and stooges for the main event? I swear that's all they ever did :lmao.

LMFAO, The SS introduce themselves one at a time to Tredna (you heard that name here first. And last) while doing some stupid dances... and it results in them getting their faces smashed in . Being bumpers and stooges for the main event guys might be the only reason SS are here, but dammit they ARE good at it lol. They bounce around and make everyone else look great, while looking great themselves at times. No wonder Ziggler is so good at bumping .

Its also hilarious to see Cena being dominated by a bunch of male cheerleaders for a short time. No wonder Rock wasn't scared of Cena.

In the end, the cheerleaders get destroyed. Pedigree and FU at the same time to two of them as Edge just walks away and watches as Cena and HHH beat the hell out of each other. Also, LOL at Cena kicking one of the SS guys in the head after the FU, basically telling him to fuck off out of the ring .

Another fun match.

*Rating: **3/4*

*Shelton Benjamin Vs Rob Van Dam - Intercontinental Championship & Money in the Bank Briefcase Match - Backlash 30/04/2006*

Shelton went to Vince after losing his match to Hass and got the match changed so the MITB Briefcase would be defended as well as his IC title.

So the match begins with Shelton taking RVD down to the mat and showing up the former ECW star, and he looks as happy as can be. RVD tries to do the same, but Shelton counters and gets the better of RVD. That's what happens when you get a real wrestler against one of them there ECDub wrastlers .

RVD starts to build momentum, hitting some kicks and then a high flying move over the ropes. Unfortunately as he's on his way back into the ring after rolling Shelton in, Shelton is able to find an opening and make the most of it once again; and he hits an awesome and sick looking sunset flip powerbomb onto the floor. Take THAT ECDub guy!

After the powerbomb on the floor, Shelton works over the back of RVD, and wisely so. Awesome cut off spot at one point when RVD tries for a Rolling Thunder and Shelton jumps up at the last second and catches RVD into a Samoan Drop! Cool looking counter, AND it targeted the back! Same goes for Shelton leaping up and catching RVD with a superplex on the top rope too! Take notes, Kurt. Shelton leaped up onto the ropes for a suplex in a spot that make sense AND wasn't done after he'd taken a finisher or something.

RVD's comeback thankfully isn't filled with no selling and shit. He DOES hit some of his known offence, some of which he lands on his back (rolling thunder), but he shows that he is in pain and doesn't start quickly moving around and shit. Then he misses a frog splash and gets planted with an awesome DDT. Huh, guess it wasn't his big comeback lol. Or perhaps it was, and this is now going into the finishing stretch.

Holy shit at the superkick from Shelton. Seriously, if it wasn't for HBK still being around and using it as a finisher, Shelton should have totally gone with that instead of the T-Bone thingy that honestly looked kinda crappy as a finisher.

Yep, that comeback from RVD was his big comeback, leading into the finishing stretch with included that awesome superkick, some counters, and then RVD kicking the MITB Briefcase into Shelton's face, allowing him to finally land the frog splash! New IC champ.

Really fucking good match. RVD wasn't a spotty, sloppy kicking, no selling arse like he usually is. Shelton was great on offence, all of RVD's little comebacks were done well, and the big comeback was real nice. I liked how they built up to RVD's signature and finishing moves with him not being able to hit them early on, instead having Shelton counter them and use them to his advantage, then towards the end as RVD build more and more momentum he can finally land them and eventually use them to win the match. Not pleased that Shelton lost his belt though, would have preferred a new MITB Briefcase holder from this match lol. Just give Shelton a new manager (his Momma was gone by this point) and he could have easily gone on to the main event FINALLY by the end of the year if they kept going the way he was going.

*Rating: *****

*Shawn Michaels & God Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - No Holds Barred - Backlash 30/04/2006*

I'm gonna go ahead and say it now; god is a better wrestler than Chavo Guerrero.

:lmao at HBK. Vince gets on the mic and tells Shawn that he and god are going straight to hell. So HBK defends god's honour... by beating the shit out of Vince. Very Christian of him.

With Vince not being a wrestler but Shane able to actually do stuff, this match is a mix of a brawl (usually with Vince) and Shawn getting mauled (by Shane). Shane hits some pretty sweet looking stuff, especially the armdrag on the outside sending Shawn back first into the guardrail.

Shane is a crazy bastard with some of the things he does, and HBK is busted open so its believable that even HBK can be in trouble here. Then you have Shane's Buff Daddy (probably the only reference I'll ever make to Bagwell in any reviews not about Bagwell  ) who looks like he could tear Shawn apart now that he's down and hurting.

Nice callback spots from WM with Vince returning the favour and smashing a trash can over HBK's head. Then apparently god leaves. Because he was actually there. Honest.

Worst attempt at a superkick ever by Vince, thankfully it was blocked and Shawn begins his comeback. He even continues to sell after the kip up! Well, the first one, anyway. He does one after hitting Vince where he sells, then after hitting Shane and decides to no sell .

Sweet Chin Music! Sweet Chin Music again! Vince and Shane are down! Time for the tables. Shawn sets up a couple of tables... and the fans chant "we want tables". Uhhh, guys, he has tables. In the ring. Set up. Why are you chanting that you want them? He's giving you them. Morons.

Both Vince and Shane are set up on tables right next to each other, and it looks like Shawn wants a repeat of WM, but with BOTH male McMahon's on tables to break his fall! Before he can make the leap into the ring, he switches up and dives outside the ring! What a crazy bastard. Thankfully a bunch of male cheerleaders appeared to break his fall .

The 7 on 1 situation doesn't work out too well for Shawn, and he gets driven through a table and Vince picks up the win.

This was a TON of fun. Just an extremely well worked match. Vince was taken out early on so he wouldn't have to do much in the match. Shane took come crazy shit, then busted HBK open with a chair shot and worked over Shawn while Shawn did a great FIP that we all know he's capable of doing. The Spirit Squad making it a 7 on 1 match in the end was a perfect way to allow Vince and Shane to get the win without it seeming like Shawn couldn't beat an old man and his non wrestler son. Some nice little callback spots to WM too which I always like. A genuinely good match.

*Rating: ***1/2*


*John Cena Vs Triple H Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match - Backlash 30/04/2006*

For some reason I always remembered HHH getting busted open from Edge's DDT on the announcers table, and I recall him clearly blading before taking the DDT so it would look like he was busted open on impact. But nope. He got busted open moments earlier when he was sent face first into the ring post, and you could clearly see him blading before THAT spot lol. Doesn't make the DDT spot any less impressive, but damn, how did I remember it so wrong? 

I watched most of this match without typing anything so the reason that is my first thought is just because that's the first time I decided to actually write anything, even though it takes place over half way into the match lol.

Match starts off with Edge going out of the ring and letting HHH and Cena beat each other up. Which they are fine with until they notice Edge laughing at them. So they team up to take him out, and take turns at smashing his head into the announce table etc, before HHH turns on Cena and takes him out and goes to work on Edge. From here its all one on one with one guy coming back in, sending someone out and going at it with whoever is in the ring. Lita plays her part well on the outside, helping Edge whenever possible. All really picks up with the DDT spot tbh. HHH is a bloody mess, so with him out for the time being Edge things he has things won... until he gets put in the STFU! He tapped out to it a couple of weeks back so it was a believable match ender. Cool spot with HHH getting back into things and preventing Edge from grabbing the ropes and escaping the hold, but smashing Cena in the head with a mic so he can't keep it locked in and win. Then we get a great visual of HHH being locked in the STFU while being all bloody, and given the fact he tapped out at WM to it without being covered in blood, again its a great believable spot.

HHH is a bastard. A piece of shit fucking cunt. Just throwing it out there. Spinebusting Lita. Dick.

Finishing sequence with the sledgehammer and the FU/Pedigree teases all leading to Cena rolling up HHH for the win is all great stuff. Really good match. Hit "great" territory around the half way mark, but the early stuff wasn't quite there and brings it down a little, but I don't think any part of this was bad in any way. Definitely one of the better triple threats in the company.

*Rating: ***3/4*


Shelton Benjamin Vs Rob Van Dam - Intercontinental Championship & Money in the Bank Briefcase Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ****
Triple H Vs Ric Flair - Raw 06/02/2006 - ***3/4
Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC WWE Title Match - Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
John Cena Vs Triple H Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ***3/4
Shawn Michaels & God Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - No Holds Barred - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ***1/2
Triple H Vs The Big Show - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 23/01/2006 - ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Charlie Hass - Raw 17/04/2006 - ***1/4
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 27/03/2006 - ***1/4
Triple H Vs The Big Show - Raw 13/02/2006 - ***
Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - WWE Women's Championship - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***
Shane McMahon Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 24/04/2006 - ***
Chris Masters & Carlito Vs Shawn Michaels & Kurt Angle - Raw 09/01/2006 - ***
Jerry Lawler Vs Gregory Helms - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***
The Big Show Vs Triple H Vs RVD - Raw 20/02/2006 - ***
The Spirit Squad Vs Triple H, John Cena & Edge - Handicap Match - Raw 24/04/2006 - **3/4
Edge & John Cena Vs Triple H - Handicap Match - Raw 17/04/2006 - **3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs Viscera - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - **3/4
The Big Show Vs Shelton Benjamin - Raw 06/02/2006 - **1/2
Ric Flair Vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinential Title Match - Raw 20/02/2006 - **1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Ric Flair Vs RVD - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 20/03/2006 - **1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Goldust - Raw 30/01/2006 - **1/2
Kane Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 02/01/2006 - **1/2
Mickie James Vs Trish Stratus - Women's Championship - Backlash 30/04/2006 - **
Shawn Michaels Vs The Spirit Squad - Steel Cage 4 on 1 Handicap Match - Raw 13/03/2006 - **
Umaga Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 17/04/2006 - **
Triple H & John Cena Vs Edge - Handicap Match - Raw 10/04/2006 - **
The Big Show Vs Kane - Backlash 30/04/2006 - *3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs Chavo Guerrero - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 03/04/2006 - *3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs RVD - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 13/03/2006 - *1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Ric Flair - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 06/03/2006 - *
Triple H & Edge Vs John Cena - Handicap Match - Raw 03/04/2006 - *
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle Vs Kane Vs Chris Masters Vs Carlito - WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - *
Shawn Michaels Vs Shane McMahon - Raw 06/03/2006
Kurt Angle Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 16/01/2006 - 1/2*
Mickie James Vs Maria - Raw 10/04/2006 - 1/4*
Rob Van Dam Vs Chris Masters - Raw 10/04/2006 - 1/4*
John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - First Blood - Raw 02/01/2006 - 1/4*
The Big Show Vs Shelton Benjamin - Raw 16/01/2006 - DUD


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

What is the best north-american female match...
I can only think of Trish vs Mickie @ WM22 or Trish vs Lita @ Unforgiven 06


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd add Mickie/Trish from NYR as well, love that just as much as their WM match.

Yet to watch Kim/Kong matches from TNA though. They get some huge love from just about everyone.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

The triple threat match for the women's championship from Wrestlemania 19 was pretty great as well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just watched Orton/Kane from Mania 28 there. I don't think it was horrible by any means. Actually rather enjoyed it. Alright match and not the borefest disaster I thought it was going to be lol.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

The handicap match at Backlash 06 is a match I love, I remember watching it live and seeing HBK fly at the spirit squad, great spot.

I remember during Backlash 06 in the Carlito/Masters match, Masters forgot to kick out and the ref stopped which made me laugh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Just watched Orton/Kane from Mania 28 there. I don't think it was horrible by any means. Actually rather enjoyed it. Alright match and not the borefest disaster I thought it was going to be lol.


Agreed. I liked it. (Y)

Speaking of Kane, got his DVD for about $3 the other day. I've never been a huge fan of him but it has a solid listing. Both of the Shane matches, original Taker/Kane, Kane/Finlay belfast brawl (I'm assuming it's good), HBK/Kane (never seen but sounds good), Kane/Jericho LMS (sounds good, Kane/Umaga, couple BOD matches plus it has some X-Pac on it. :side:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Cell Matches

1) Taker vs. HBK- *****
2) Taker vs. Lesnar- ****3/4
3) Taker vs. Edge- ****3/4
4) Batista vs. HHH- ****1/2
5) Taker vs. Batista- ****1/4
6) Taker vs. Orton- ****1/4
7) Taker vs. HHH- ****
8) Foley vs. HHH- ****
9) Taker vs. Foley- ****
10) Jericho vs. HHH- ***3/4


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*ECW Extreme Evolution DVD*

Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - (16/5/99) ****1/4
Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka - (7/11/99) - ****1/4
Sandman vs. Raven - (7/12/96) - **1/2
The Dudley Boyz vs. Spike Dudley & Balls Mahoney - (14/8/99) - ***1/2
The Eliminators vs Steve Williams & Terry Gordy - (26/10/96) - **
Taz vs. Sabu - (13/4/97) - ***
Shane Douglas & Francine vs. Tommy Dreamer & Beulah (7/12/96) - ***

This is actually not that bad of a DVD. I see it retailing on most sites for like £15-£25 these days, wouldn't pay that much for it but if you can find it cheap anywhere, it's certainly worth a buy.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

About Cell matches, there is no way anybody could state that Foley/'Taker is better than Hunter/Foley in the Cell. It's just not happening. I like Foley/'Taker a lot, if you're interesting. It's a great spectacle but as a match, it's not much.


----------



## DCalXIbe (Apr 11, 2012)

JoeRulz said:


> Thoughts on Taker/HHH from 28?


Being there live this is a no brainer for me, fantastic match, it had everything. It was set up to be a great match and they sure as hell delivered


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Razor King said:


> About Cell matches, there is no way anybody could state that Foley/'Taker is better than Hunter/Foley in the Cell. It's just not happening. I like Foley/'Taker a lot, if you're interesting. It's a great spectacle but as a match, it's not much.


Technically it's certainly not, but it's definitely wider known match, even if just for the big match, and just feels like a much more important match that defined an era. It's a very brutal match, but technically speaking it's not a great match. It's everything about the match though that makes it as great and legendary as it is.

Still though, I do have Foley/HHH sitting right above it (as you can see). I didn't think on my last watch though Foley/HHH was a great match technically either, though it certainly was better than Taker/Foley. It was a good technical, pretty brutal match.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/Foley HIAC ****1/2

At that time i have never seen anything close to this match..extremely shocking.
It had such a huge impact you can't deny it and this is the kind of stuff i like to see as a wrestling fan.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Foley/HHH Hell in a Cell was borderline terrible. It was great while they were brawling inside the Cell, but once they moved outside - the things fell apart. It was a poor, obvious and terrible attempt (and a cheap knock-off) on copying Taker/Mankind. 
Rating: **3/4*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Technically better doesn't always mean the match is better or that people will hold it in higher regard than another match. If you asked me I'd probably say Benoit/RVD from Summerslam 02 is "technically" a better match than Rock/Hogan from that same year but to me the latter is the better match overall.


----------



## thephenomenalone (Mar 16, 2005)

KingCal said:


> I'd add Mickie/Trish from NYR as well, love that just as much as their WM match.
> 
> Yet to watch Kim/Kong matches from TNA though. They get some huge love from just about everyone.


I haven't seen it since it happened but I remember really liking the Trish/Lita match that main evented Raw the one where Lita nearly broke her neck. The Trish/Victoria matches were pretty good too. I think the Kong/Kim matches are probably the best recent women's matches on national tv all 3 of the original series are fantastic and well worth going out of your way to see if you're remotely a fan of women's wrestling. Outside of WWE and TNA Sara Del Rey vs Ayako Hamada from Shimmer Volume 28 is probably the best US women's match I have seen.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Best North American women's match I've seen would be something from the Gail Kim/Awesome Kong series in TNA. 



ThunderAngel said:


> Thoughts on Batista/HHH from Vengeance 05 - HIAC.
> 
> Just rewatched it thought it was great. **** plus.


One of the best Cell matches. Probably second best behind HBK/Taker for me.



JoeRulz said:


> Thoughts on Taker/HHH from 28?


The Undertaker v Triple H
-- The match I was most looking forward to and it did not disappoint. Fantastic storytelling from two consummate in-ring pros picking up right where they left off last year. The start was slow and while it wasn't all that exciting it had its purpose. Taker means business and he's not going to let Hunter play the game on his terms like he did last year. Had my fingers crossed for a blade job but Taker busting Trips open hard way was more badass. Nice callbacks to Wrestlemania 27 with the spinebuster on the steps and the Hell's Gate. Once Shawn's role as referee becomes pivotal it really kicks off and from there to the finish it's WWE drama and storytelling at its finest. They were never going to be able to come up with a false finish as compelling as HHH's Tombstone last year but damn the super kick into the Pedigree had me going. The finishing stretch is incredibly well done and to my mind just about the perfect end to the HBK/Taker/HHH Mania story arc. The main criticism I've heard for this (and their match last year) is that it's mainly chair shots and finishers. Yeah it is, but when you tell a story as well as these guys did and get me truly invested in what's happening in the ring it really doesn't matter. Another complaint is it didn't need to be HiaC because they barely used the Cell. My response to that is who fucking cares? Didn't bother me one bit. Epic stuff, just like last year.

****1/4




KingCal said:


> Triple H Vs Ric Flair - Raw 06/02/2006 - ***3/4


You got a link for this? Thought I had seen all of the HHH/Flair matches but I don't have any recollection of one from '06. 

I remember Lita getting her tits out to distract HHH in one of the HHH/Cena/Edge handicap matches. That was awesome.



JoeRulz said:


> Foley/HHH Hell in a Cell was borderline terrible. It was great while they were brawling inside the Cell, but once they moved outside - the things fell apart. It was a poor, obvious and terrible attempt (and a cheap knock-off) on copying Taker/Mankind.
> Rating: **3/4*


I'm shocked by this.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What does everyone think of 'The Twisted Disturbed Life of Kane'? I watched disc 1 yesterday and disc 2 today and so far it is an ok set with some fun brawls but not that great actual wrestling. I got it for like £7 so decent price for what you get.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What does everyone think of 'The Twisted Disturbed Life of Kane'? I watched disc 1 yesterday and disc 2 today and so far it is an ok set with some fun brawls but not that great actual wrestling. I got it for like £7 so decent price for what you get.


I just got it this week for $3. Haven't popped it in yet but it looks fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Kane DVD is worth the money just for the 08 match against Undertaker. Once day I'll finally find it cheap as fuck and actually have some money on me and actually buy it just for that lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> The Kane DVD is worth the money just for the 08 match against Undertaker. Once day I'll finally find it cheap as fuck and actually have some money on me and actually buy it just for that lol.


Never seen it but it intrigued me. I don't find Kane too bad, tbh.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

KingCal said:


> The Kane DVD is worth the money just for the 08 match against Undertaker. Once day I'll finally find it cheap as fuck and actually have some money on me and actually buy it just for that lol.


If you want it for just that one match why not find it on Youtube?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have the match on my PC. Right now. But I'd like to own it in full DVD quality.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I have the match on my PC. Right now. But I'd like to own it in full DVD quality.


Yeah it's always nice to own the match on dvd and know you can watch anytime.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Foley/HHH Hell in a Cell was borderline terrible. It was great while they were brawling inside the Cell, but once they moved outside - the things fell apart. It was a poor, obvious and terrible attempt (and a cheap knock-off) on copying Taker/Mankind.


This is TOTALLY true!

That said, remove Foley & mix his opponents (ala this year's Cell match), & there went the borderline; Now, it's just bad.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

never saw that match

and whats with your insistence not explaining why you dislike Undertakers 2006 to 2008 work?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Has anyone watched Raw: The Beginning Seasons 1 & 2, if so what are your thoughts?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Kofi Kingston vs. Curt Hawkins - Superstars - 12th April, 2012*
_Am I the only one that's starting to compare Hawkins and Reks to late 2000 Edge and Christian? Their so goofy and hilarious, but they're legit as fuck in the ring, especially Hawkins. It's the little things he does in the ring, Reks also, that makes him so enjoyable to watch and this wasn't any different. Tbh, the match it's self was pretty badly structured, with a pretty basic transition spot involving Reks as you'd expect, but it's still worth a watch for a seven minute match. Hawkins and Reks have so much potential as a tag team that it's not even funny. **1/2_

What're your thoughts on Hawkins and Reks? Or the match in general, if you watched it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Rob Van Dam & Carlito Vs Chris Masters & Shelton Benjamin - Raw 01/05/2006*

Masters challenged RVD to the Master Lock Challenge, and Shelton came out to beat up on RVD while he was in the Master Lock. Carlito shows up, and Dolph Ziggler comes out and makes a tag match (Spirit Squad were made co-GM's for the night for helping Vince and Shane defeat HBK the night before).

Masters and Shelton continue to work over RVD's back, which Shelton targeted the night before and its all good and stuffs. Carlito gets the hot tag and shows off his athleticism as they go into the finishing stretch. Masters knees RVD in the back and sends him flying to the outside. Shelton gets a chair... but Hass shows up! He takes the chair, and Carlito rolls up Shelton for the win!

This was a solid tag match. Really nice how they went back to the back of RVD and both guys worked over it real well. Carlito was find jumping around at the end. Hoping the Hass interference leads to another Shelton/Hass match :mark:.

Oh, and even though this is a good match, its a shame that they don't give it their full attention. Match begins during a commercial break, then we randomly switch to Vince making out with Candice Michelle, then we have a referee run down and hand Joey Styles a note telling him the Spirit Squad want to see him so he has to up and leave, leaving King alone. On commentary. To talk about a match.

*Rating: ****


That's all from the May 1st show, but I just wanted to mention what happens later; the Joey Styles shoot! Loved it when it first happened, and its still really good today. "I'm not good enough to call BACKLASH?"


*Rob Van Dam Vs Chris Masters Vs Charlie Hass Vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 08/05/2006*

LOL at Carlito not being involved in this. Masters and Shelton LOST to the team of RVD and Carlito last week. Carlito WON the match for his team. Hass simply showed up and took a chair from Shelton. And Carlito doesn't get in the match :lmao.

Damn, this was pretty fucking great. Plenty of action without it turning into a pointless spotfest or whatever, and everyone looked really good in it. Hass was probably the standout to me though. He was throwing some pretty great looking kicks and knees around, as well as hitting some sweet looking suplexes when he got the chance, as well as taking some good bumps. Shelton have him a back suplex over the ropes to the floor at one point, but unfortunately it was overshadowed by RVD hitting the Rolling Thunder at the exact same time.

Cool spot early on in the match; RVD was thrown out of the ring quickly and Masters teamed up with Shelton for a little bit to take out Hass. Eventually Masters turns on Shelton and throws him out, but RVD comes back in and takes care of Masters, then gets rid of Hass too. RVD is alone in the ring and just keeps circling around, waiting for someone to try and get in so he can keep them out! Made RVD look good, which is no doubt their intention since he would soon be challenging for the WWE title. Finish was sweet too. Masters had Hass in the Master Lock, then literally out of nowhere RVD just flies over them and catches Masters with a sunset flip! Good camera work for it too, as we couldn't see the other half of the ring where RVD was no doubt climbing the turnbuckle so all we saw was RVD appearing out of nowhere and getting the win lol. Anyways, yeah, loved this match a ton. Probably one of the better 4 way matches in WWE.

*Rating: ***3/4*


*Mick Foley Vs Edge Vs Tommy Dreamer - Hardcore Match - Raw 08/05/2006*

So yeah, last week Foley was on the Cutting Edge, and cut a great promo which lead to him and Edge agreeing to have a WM rematch this week. Then this week Foley adds Dreamer to the match... and he and Edge beat the fuck out of him together. LOL. Silly Tommy, will he ever learn?

:lmao at Foley going for Mr Socko... he grabbed it out of his undies and it ended up flying up in the air and landing on his face. Considering where he just pulled it out from... eeewwww.

Foley Spears Dreamer while Foley still has the Mandible Claw on him. They both pin him. More of a segment than a match, but a great segment at that. Loved this feud.

*Rating: 1/4**


*Kane Vs The Big Show - Raw 08/05/2006*

Wasn't that great on PPV a week ago... so let's have a rematch on Raw!

They both fist bump at the start. Ok.

This match is pretty funny though. Show actually tries to WRESTLE Kane. Basic amateur take downs and whatnot. Which makes Show about as technical as Bret Hart tbh lol. Hell even Kane gives some stuff a go as well. After all, he WAS going crazy at this time due to the May 19th crap. He even looks like he's having fun at one point lol. I know I am!

Match is odd, no doubt about it. Its two BIG bastards working a style that guys their size really shouldn't be doing, but honestly they don't exactly butcher it lol. The May 19th storyline does that for them, and Kane goes crazy again and kills Show with a steel chair. Up until that point, I thought this was a total blast. Just unexpected fun.

*Rating: ***


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> *Kofi Kingston vs. Curt Hawkins - Superstars - 12th April, 2012*
> _Am I the only one that's starting to compare Hawkins and Reks to late 2000 Edge and Christian? Their so goofy and hilarious, but they're legit as fuck in the ring, especially Hawkins. It's the little things he does in the ring, Reks also, that makes him so enjoyable to watch and this wasn't any different. Tbh, the match it's self was pretty badly structured, with a pretty basic transition spot involving Reks as you'd expect, but it's still worth a watch for a seven minute match. Hawkins and Reks have so much potential as a tag team that it's not even funny. **1/2_
> 
> What're your thoughts on Hawkins and Reks? Or the match in general, if you watched it?


My thoughts are that it seriously wasn't as good as it could/should have been. Whether that's due to the lack of time given, or perhaps Hawkins and Kingston might not be used to working with each other. The match just felt a bit off at time. Not a bad match by any means but nothing especially memorable. Worth a watch but not essential viewing.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> and whats with your insistence not explaining why you dislike Undertakers 2006 to 2008 work?


I've given several reasons several times each. I said I wouldn't repeat myself, & people continued asking. I answered again. Now, it's some of you trying to not see the many times I've answered.

Watched "Smackdown" last night. When Kane said he was "a sucker for family reunions" to Randy & Bob Orton, made me think of something... Book a 2-on-2 match for "Extreme Rules" or "No Way Out".... Perhaps both. One of Ortons vs. Brothers, & the other mixing it up. Find a way to separate the Brothers for the 2nd match. Put them in the Cell @ NWO, since people seem to say that's where some of Taker's best matches happen. Let the "new" Kane end his brother's active career.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Started the Kane DVD

Kane/Mankind - Survivor Series '97 - ***1/4
Kane/Taker - WM XIV - ***1/2
Kane/Taker - Inferno - **1/2

Wasn't a huge fan of the inferno match but I really enjoyed the first two. Hadn't seen the WM XIV match in ages.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I've watched Wrestlemania 28 again today, so it's the third time I've seen it in full and it grows on me with each viewing.

Bryan/Sheamus STILL bugs the crap out of me. I know time was an issue, but it's freaking Wrestlemania and it's the World Heavyweight Championship. It probably did more good for Bryan and more harm to Sheamus, which is probably not what WWE wanted. But, I digress. It's all been said over and over already. *DUD*

Orton/Kane is actually pretty good, despite the piss-poor reasoning for the match. Feels like they just had to find a way of putting Orton on the card as he's supposed to be the top babyface on Smackdown but he's not been doing much of anything recently. Anyways, it was a solid, physical match and I enjoyed how Orton tried to go toe to toe with him. His strikes were effective and he looked like he could beat Kane. The chokeslam from the second rope at the end was visually great and it was nice to see Kane win. *****

Show/Rhodes was disappointing, and again I don't think it was given enough time. I suppose it's nice to see Big Show win the Intercontinental Championship, but I would've prefered a Rhodes victory. Given more time, I would've liked to have seen Cody really go to work trying to chop the big man down. ****

Divas tag match - Maria whatever her name is from that Extra show appeared ZERO times on WWE TV to promote this match so why should anyone care that she's involved? Waste of time. *DUD*

Undertaker/Triple H inside Hell in a Cell was fantastic. Absolutely phenomenal match that was head and shoulders better than their encounter last year. First couple of minutes were a bit slow but shit got good real quickly after that. On a side note, I laughed at the cell getting its own entrance with theme music. It was utterly ludicrous but it totally worked, especially seeing both men look up and the camera slowly pan up through the smoke to see it coming down. The WWE production team are amazing.

Anyways, I heard Jim Ross say it best in a documentary...this was a perfect example of how to wow a crowd with physicality. The chair shots were brutal, and judging from Undertaker's back at the end of the match it was pretty clear they did considerable damage. Chair shots, sledgehammer, steel steps, interference from HBK as referee...it was all there. I love that every year they always throw in a moment where something happens and I think that it's all over - Edge hitting the second spear at Wrestlemania 24 only to have Undertaker grab Edge and lock him in Hell's Gate. Then there's HBK getting Tombstone at 25 only to kick out, or Triple H nailing Undertaker with a Tombstone. I thought for sure the match was over when I saw that. This year, HBK hits Sweet Chin Music and it's followed by a Pedigree. I literally held my breath because I thought that shit was over for sure. The kickout was epic.

When Undertaker finally won, and they all helped each other to their feet and embraced, it truly felt like the end of an era. I imagine we might see both men in action again in the future, but we'll likely never see all three men together ever again. Anyways, extremely physical and emotional war. The ONLY downside was Shawn's acting. The whole conflicted referee thing was cool and made sense seeing as he's Triple H's best friend and he has great history with The Undertaker, but the actual acting from HBK was cringeworthy. However, it didn't ruin the match. *****1/2*

Team Johnny vs Team Teddy was ok I guess. I'll admit it, unless it's with the big main event stars I HATE big tag matches like this. Don't get me wrong, I love some of the mid-card talent, but I'm all for one on one matches instead of big tag matches. Ziggler was great, as was Ryder. Interesting times lay ahead with Johnny Ace leading both shows. ****

CM Punk/Chris Jericho was great, great stuff. Started off slow, as it seemed like it took a few minutes for them to get the chemistry right. Jericho trying to make Punk angry at the start with the taunts about his family was smart. Jericho is so good at being a real piece of shit. Jericho's control segment was great, and the climax was great. Punk going for the hurricanrana from the top rope but getting reversed into the Walls Of Jericho was really innovative too. Ultimately, Jericho taps and Punk is still the champ. Best in the world perhaps  ******

The Rock vs John Cena was a great match, and a very worthy Wrestlemania main event. How can a match live up to a year-long build? It can't, and any match will likely always fall short of the massive expectations we all put on it. However, both men did great and it really did feel special. I wasn't looking forward to the musical performances, but Flo Rida wasn't all bad. MGK absolutely sucked though, he got boos and then literally no reaction once he was done. His little opinion on the match did NOT go over well with the live crowd. It made me laugh how MGK said Cena was the UNDERDOG. Really????? I'm pretty sure that even though most people wanted Rock to win, deep down we all thought that Cena would go over. Flo Rida got a moderately good reaction and it seemed like the fans were into it whenever they cut to shots of the crowd. Cena got loads of heat as expected, and the crowd was very pro-Rock which was expected to. That's not to say Cena didn't have his fans, because he did. But the crowd was on Rocky's side. 

The staredown at the beginning was a nice reminder of how Rock/Hogan started ten years ago, as was the back and forth show of strength that followed. Rock was a bit rusty during the match, but for a guy who hasn't had a singles match in 9 years I think he was incredible. The rest periods were a little dull, but I was glued to the screen the whole time and both men really know how to work the crowd. Rocky doing the "you can't see me" gesture only for Cena to pick him up and AA him was fantastic and it seemed like it was over. The leg drop from the top rope was brutal, Rock was lucky he didn't get hurt for real. Rock's crossbody from the top rope is something we haven't seen since 1997! Fantastic thing to pull out of the bag in a match as important as this. 

Cena made ONE fatal mistake, and that was deciding to mock The Rock at the end. He took his eye off the prize because he suddenly became too concerned with getting a cheap shot in. Rocky took advantage and hit the Rock Bottom for the win. The victory was met with an almighty pop that gives me goosebumps every time. When the camera cuts to a wide shot of the crowd and you can see what looks like EVERYBODY going nuts its just amazing. A true sight to see. I read a live fan report that said people were literally jumping up and down and dancing in the aisles when Rocky won. Like it or not, it was the best decision. It's Wrestlemania and you have to send the crowd home happy. Cena winning would've made some people happy but the vast majority would've hated it and the show would've ended on a sour note.

All in all, it was a fantastic match that obviously couldn't live up to expectactions but they still delivered a great main event that I'll no doubt watch over and over for years. *****1/4*

Verdict - best Wrestlemania since Wrestlemania 24, and I think it's better than 22 and 23. Great show that seems to go really quickly.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WWE WrestleMania XIX*

*Cruiserweight Title*: Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio - **3/4

*Handicap Match*: The Undertaker vs. Big Show & A-Train - ***

*Women's Title*: Victoria vs. Trish Stratus vs. Jazz - **3/4

*WWE Tag Team Titles*: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros vs. Chris Benoit & Rhyno - **3/4

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - ***3/4

*World Heavyweight Title*: Triple H vs. Booker T - ***1/4

*Street Fight*: Hulk Hogan vs. Mr. McMahon - ****

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock - ***1/2

*WWE Championship*: Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - ***1/2


This has always been my favorite WM and my favorite PPV ever, but with every passing viewing, I start to understand why not everyone considers this is the best WM ever. I still think it's a great WM and one of the best ppvs of all time, but now I see it a lot more closely tied with WM X7.

-Hardy/Mysterio is a solid sprint, but I could have done without any restholds.

-UT/ShowTrain is a lot of fun. You know a card is big when UT goes on second. This was just non stop action from three very big guys. UT had good chemistry with both, who always showed a willingness to work with him (check out the 2008 UT/Big Show series, or even UT's SummerSlam match with A-Train). Very enjoyable, a lot of fun.

-The Divas's match is probably one of the better women's matches out there, which doesn't say much about the division. Still, they give it their all and we get a nice feel good ending with a great closing sequence.

-Tag Title match is meh, but seeing Guerrero/Benoit at WM is still cool.

-This is probably the most I've ever enjoyed HBK/Jericho. On paper, my favorite wrestler returning to WM after 5 years against his splitting image should be a dream come true, but it's just never fully clicked for me. Not in 2003, and not fully today.

I appreciated it a lot more, but I felt like they were just starting to get good when the match ended.

-HHH/Booker is a damn good title match, but the problem is, as everyone else has mentioned, on the same night that HBK crawled out the walls, Jericho kicked out of SCM, Hogan legdropped McMahon three times, Rock rock-bottomed Austin three times and hit one people's elbow, and Lesnar hit three F5s to win the title, Booker T looked really bad getting pinned after ONE pedigree with a delayed pin.

This was an interesting, under-rated match, that again, feels like it ends out of nowhere. Another 2-3 minutes and this could have been great.

-Hogan/McMahon was MOTN for me: a dream match, the ultimate "what if", two of the biggest foundations in wrestling. I love how it started as a wresting match, but when Hogan over-powers McMahon, McMahon gets dirty. The legdrop off the ladder is sick, Roddy Piper returning is perfect, and the end sequence is perfectly over-booked, without being a mess. One of my all time favorites.

-Rock/Austin III is not as good as WM X7, but still a very solid match, that never gets boring and has a great ending sequence. This might be the first finisher fest ever, but I mean that in a good way.

-Angle/Lesnar, again, just seems to end as it starts going. Of course, Lesnar's botched SSP takes the wind out of everyone, who are unsure what to think, and it obviously changes the finish. A good wrestling match, but I never realized how awkward the ending is.


Still one of my favorites of all time. I enjoyed HBK/Jericho a lot more, and I still love Hogan/McMahon. Rock/Austin is a fitting conclusion to their trilogy, I just wish the two world title matches had gotten more time, and obviously this is not a showcase of a very deep card. FIVE main events, though, which will probably never be duplicated.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

In all honesty Kurt Angle needs a frickin' dvd he has one of the technical greats. Shame he's in TNA so it won't happen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still fucking love WM XIX. Rate most things way above what most other people seem to rate them too lol. Like, ***3/4 for Matt/Rey (best match under 5 minutes ever), **** for the triple threat tag match, **** for HHH/Booker T, ****1/2 for Austin/Rock (their best match imo). Then I'm super low on McMahon/Hogan. About *. Thought it was shit .


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

The thing I would of liked to seen at WM 19 is Booker win the title, I think it would of been a great underdog moment for him to establish him as a WWE star rather than just a guy who was good in WCW. Then I would of had HHH win it back at Backlash in a gimmick match with help from Evolution, but Booker could still look great in a match like that giving his all to retain the title, rather than the pointless 6 man tag.

Then just start the HHH reign of terror from then, and you have made Booker T a bigger WWE star.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, the timing was pretty much perfect for a Booker T title win (even if I can't stand him  ). Was dumb that they didn't actually go through with it. I've heard people defend the decision based on the fact Goldberg was coming after WM and they needed the belt on a heel. Last I looked, Goldberg didn't win the belt until what, SEPTEMBER? Easily enough time for Booker to have a reign for at least until the next PPV.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Exactly, Goldberg wasnt even thinking about the WHC, he was too busy feuding with Rocky and Jericho. HHH could of easily had a long feud with Booker instead of the sh1t Nash feud, especially as he left after Summerslam and Booker was there up till 2007. It annoys me that they never really focused on him until they absolutely had to in 2006 when Smackdown pretty much didnt have anyone. And in my opinion he did brilliantly with the silly King Booker gimmick, which just shows what hes capable of.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

King Booker was great. Loved that shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Booker was one of my least favourite things from SD 06 along with Khali.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The part when McMahon slowly rises up above the apron covered in blood adds ** to Hogan/Vince, imo. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, only adds * to it. Hence my rating of *.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Nah, only adds * to it. Hence my rating of *.


At least you acknowledge that as the good part. I have it at **1/2 I believe. ** for that 1/2 for Vince on a ladder.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I hated King Booker, annoyed the crap out of me, one of the last heels to do that for me, thought Booker did a great job at it. He did such a good job for me I was happy everytime Batista destroyed him.

I really feel sorry for him though in 03, I thought he was a great babyface and could of had a great long rivalry with HHH, instead of HHH mostly going through talent who left the company soon after he beat them.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Brye said:


> Started the Kane DVD
> 
> Kane/Mankind - Survivor Series '97 - ***1/4
> Kane/Taker - WM XIV - ***1/2
> ...


The inferno matche was really weak. I remember watching it and although it sounding like a good concept, it just didn't work for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Word said:


> The inferno matche was really weak. I remember watching it and although it sounding like a good concept, it just didn't work for me.


Agreed. It really limits what you can do in the ring. I did like the dive from Taker onto Kane and Vader though. Thought the end was a bit lame too.

Kane's character back then was awesome though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best Inferno match imo is Kane Vs MVP from Armageddon 06. The Undertaker/Kane one is alright for the dive and not much else. Didn't they have one on TV too? Kane/HHH was somewhat amusing too. I don't HATE any inferno match but none of them are particularly good, but then again they are wrestling in a ring surround by FIRE so I never expect much from them anyway .


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

Watched December To Dismember tonight cause I had nothing better to do. Man that PPV sucked, I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who paid money to watch that.


----------



## Mysterio fan (Apr 11, 2012)

Mr.Limelight said:


> *Exactly, Goldberg wasnt even thinking about the WHC,* he was too busy feuding with Rocky and Jericho. HHH could of easily had a long feud with Booker instead of the sh1t Nash feud, especially as he left after Summerslam and Booker was there up till 2007. It annoys me that they never really focused on him until they absolutely had to in 2006 when Smackdown pretty much didnt have anyone. And in my opinion he did brilliantly with the silly King Booker gimmick, which just shows what hes capable of.


Goldberg's Contract particularly guaranteed him a world title win. The decisions for the whole year were made based on that and the win got delayed because of HHH's injury. Goldberg was to win at summerslam. 

I personally never liked booker so, glad vince didnt go through with it. The guy was a tag team bitch with goldust prior to that feud with HHH. He was just a filler for the world title match at Mania against HHH, much like chris jericho was to punk at Mania 28.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I enjoyed the chamber match, even though the wrong guys got eliminated early.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't remember a damn thing about D2D. BUT, I'll be watching it eventually. Almost up to the ECW return in my Raw 06 project (it all kinda begins on Raw), and since I've already done SD I figured I'd do Raw and ECW at the same time once ECW showed up. Looking forward to Show's title reign at least. And thankfully Lashley's reign is only for like 2 weeks in 06 or something, then its all 07 and I won't be doing THAT for a long long time probably .


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Brye said:


> Agreed. It really limits what you can do in the ring. I did like the dive from Taker onto Kane and Vader though. Thought the end was a bit lame too.
> 
> Kane's character back then was awesome though.


Everything about Kane owned in the attitude era. He and Taker genuinely freaked me out. Saying that Taker was awesome back then too. I even liked Kane on the mic, ownage.



KingCal said:


> Best Inferno match imo is Kane Vs MVP from Armageddon 06. The Undertaker/Kane one is alright for the dive and not much else. Didn't they have one on TV too? Kane/HHH was somewhat amusing too. I don't HATE any inferno match but none of them are particularly good, but then again they are wrestling in a ring surround by FIRE so I never expect much from them anyway .


I do feel Kane/MVP was better too but both matches did feel really flat, they don't go anywhere and then someone anticlimacticly gets set on fire. There's been 4 inferno matches one like you said on SD with Trips/Kane and on RAW with Taker/Kane again.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

They took Sabu out of the Chamber match and replaced him with Bob fucking Holly. And it really soured the crowd on it, there's audible bullshit chants a couple of times. I'm assuming Sabu was injured or something? Does anyone remember why that was done?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He was probably either injured or was about to be suspended for DRUGS~! knowing Sabu .

Heyman's plan for that match would have been way better than what we got. But no, Vince wanted Bobby "bathturd" Lashley to win and to beat Show right at the end.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Inferno matches made me legit nervous as a child. I loved wrestling and all the madness but I didn't want to see them get legit burned which I obviously believed would happen since IT WAS STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT! Stupid matches though.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I've started watching every PPV in 2001. Such a good year, will post a few ratings tomorrow. I don't think WM 17 is the best ever but I just love everything about it. Crowd, titantron (sad indeed) booking, match quality etc etc etc.9


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Kane/Orton on ER needs to be INFERNO match. Yeah!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> I've given several reasons several times each. I said I wouldn't repeat myself, & people continued asking. I answered again. Now, it's some of you trying to not see the many times I've answered.
> 
> Watched "Smackdown" last night. When Kane said he was "a sucker for family reunions" to Randy & Bob Orton, made me think of something... Book a 2-on-2 match for "Extreme Rules" or "No Way Out".... Perhaps both. One of Ortons vs. Brothers, & the other mixing it up. Find a way to separate the Brothers for the 2nd match. Put them in the Cell @ NWO, since people seem to say that's where some of Taker's best matches happen. Let the "new" Kane end his brother's active career.


ok

1) You never actually say anything, ever. Every post you have here is in four portions
a) How you dislike something
b) How you have the right to that opinion
c) and how you wont be explaining that opinion
d) You stating that you explained that opinion before and you wont be repeating yourself, even though, i dont see it

2) That match idea sounds terrible. I mean in no universe should Kane end Taker's career. Kane's entire existence is basically just some guy in a mask who existed purely to be an enemy of Taker identical to him when he first debuted. Not to mention he's worse than Taker in ever way imaginable. He never had the gimmick longetivity or adaptation of Taker, he wasnt half the wrestler Taker is, and he never rose above enhancement talent. Kane is defined by taker, but taker is so much bigger than Kane in every way imaginable. Hell, its no surprise Kane has the same name as Taker when he debuted. Not to mention still has a few years left in the tank for some more big time Wrestlemania matches that will not only steal the show, but make good money. Tag match could be fun i guess, but how would the dynamic work? Taker and Orton are face, Kane is heel. Taker cant turn, and Orton is unlikely to


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2011)

just bought a bunch of DVDs from my friend, and i strongly recommend Viva La Raza: The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero. great DVD


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> just bought a bunch of DVDs from my friend, and i strongly recommend Viva La Raza: The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero. great DVD


I agree it has some great technical wrestling matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Is it ok to talk about torrents and downloading ppvs on here or is that frowned upon? Just curious because I have lots of questions and Im sure you guys would be able to help. Im not the best with comps but would like to grab a bunch of old ppvs. Let me know on here or if I posted this in the wrong section my bad. Thanks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Guerrero DVD is awesome. I haven't fully watched it yet but I love Eddie/Lesnar to a ridiculous extent.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This TJChurch guy needs to go away. If you're going to gimmick post at least try to be somewhat entertaining like that Khali fan was a while back.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ownage™ said:


> This TJChurch guy needs to go away. If you're going to gimmick post at least try to be somewhat entertaining like that Khali fan was a while back.


lolnoloking

Good times... good times.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hahaha yeah noloking. I couldn't remember his name.

Has anything been announced for Extreme Rules?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar vs. Cena

Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan World Title- 2/3 falls

Honestly, I've got a bad feeling Sheamus is gonna pin Bryan 1-2-3 twice faster than he did at Mania once.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Good shit. Shaping up to be a strong card with Punk/Jericho as the other title match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm watching the Survivor Series 2002 at the moment and it's Elimination Chamber time. Excellent match and all but what is up with HBK's haircut? Seriously....he looks like one of the Olsen twins or the middle Hanson kid.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I hated Nolo King. I liked that "WellItsABigShow" or whatever his name was. Total gimmick based around the fact the Big Show is the best ever or something.

Um, wrestling.......Orton v Henry on SmackDown was good. Henry's still on his tear from last year and if WWE kills his momentum I'll be at Stamford with picket signs. He could be having great PPV matches right now.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Just watched Hitman Hart: Wrestling With Shadows the other day. Fucking awesome. I've always liked Bret, but not to the extent I do now. Really digging Bret as a person AND performer. Really fun documentary.

For some reason, it really just struck a chord in me and really rebooted my love for wrestling. I can't explain why, but I really want to get into some Late 80s/New Generation Era matches more specifically those from the likes of Piper, Hart, Michaels, and Sid, but pretty much anything. Anything you guys would recommend? Bret/DB at SS '92 is always brought up as well as Bret/Michaels from WM12.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Um, wrestling.......Orton v Henry on SmackDown was good. Henry's still on his tear from last year and if WWE kills his momentum I'll be at Stamford with picket signs. He could be having great PPV matches right now.


Gonna check that out when I get a chance. I'll be quite disappointed if they don't do Punk/Henry on PPV at some point.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

The Eddie/Lesnar match was immense, and I still love seeing that pop, but my all time favourite Eddie match is the one v JBL

almost made Eddie look like a messiac figure to me


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

#greatness


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I love Eddie/Lesnar. It really is an amazing underdog story. Eddie/JBL is something else though, scary awesome shit.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

I agree with Eddie/JBL being better than Eddie/Lesnar. The latter is still great though. At the time I was so shocked, I genuinely didn't think Eddie had a chance in hell at winning.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I rewatched HBK/HHH from Summersalm 2002 yesterday and it's so fucking good.

I've never seen any of their other matches apart from the LMS at the rumble in 2004. How are the HIAC and 3 stages of hell matches between them? I don't remember hearing anything about them at all.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

3 stages of hell is terrible because Trips came into the match hurt and HBK still wasn't fully into his groove yet. It was only like his 4th match since he returned but he took an insane bump off a ladder at the end of the match.

HIAC, I might be in the minority but I really enjoyed this match. For many it's just too long of a match and may come off as HHH/Shawn shouting to everyone "this is an epic match!" but I've enjoyed all 47 minutes and 26 seconds on every watch.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Shit, it goes almost 50 minutes? Might give it a watch to see what I think.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

My word! I've found someone else in this thread that enjoys that HiaC match. Yeh, I think the general consensus is that the match could've been cut down like 15/20 minutes but like you, I enjoy every minute of that match. I think the length gave it a real war of attrition feel.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I love the close up shot they did in the final moments of the match on Shawn's knuckles swollen from punching HHH so hard and so many times. It was one of the most hardcore HIACs ever with all of the weapons they used - tables, ladders, chairs, steps and sledgehammer. HHH sold the final pin cover well too.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Any thoughts and ratings on Backlash 03 and judgment Day 03?


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't remember much else about the show but the stretcher match at JD 03 is great and is one of my favourite matches from both Show and Lesnar. In fact off the top of my head I would probably have it in my personal top 5 for Lesnar.


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

They're releasing a dvd about the streak in July. Maybe it is Takers last WM then...?


----------



## Mysterio fan (Apr 11, 2012)

dxbender said:


> They're releasing a dvd about the streak in July. Maybe it is Takers last WM then...?


They released a streak DVD when he was 15-0. So no its not his last.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Is the show w/Kane-MVP Inferno also the one with the many-tag-team ladder that broke Mercury's nose? I may be wrong, but that's how I remember it.

Also, I'm sick & tired of people talking about me & my posting. If you want to discuss me, I thought this place had a "Rant" section... Or would there be a problem because some of you can't even understand each other's sad excuses for English?! (I'll probably get temp-banned for this, even though I've been attacked far more with NO punishments doled-out.

I didn't like HIAC or many of Taker's matches in recent years. There were several years I was a HUGE fan, but none come to mind. I have given plenty of well-explained, understandable reasons why. If you don't understand them, get dictionaries & try again. If you disagree, not a problem; But we each have a right to our opinions, & neither is right-or-wrong, or better-or-worse than the other.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Mysterio fan said:


> They released a streak DVD when he was 15-0. So no its not his last.


One could mean the other, but no guarantee.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

When Taker's officially _done_, the world will know it. As for right now I'm looking forward to his WrestleMania 29 match next year.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Clique said:


> When Taker's officially _done_, the world will know it. As for right now I'm looking forward to his WrestleMania 29 match next year.


It is popularly said. "The first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one." WWE has several, & one of them seems to fight about once a year.


----------



## Mysterio fan (Apr 11, 2012)

Taker is a legend but he is quite overrated in the IWC, no one can deny that.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

BUBZ said:


> I rewatched HBK/HHH from Summersalm 2002 yesterday and it's so fucking good.
> 
> I've never seen any of their other matches apart from the LMS at the rumble in 2004. How are the HIAC and 3 stages of hell matches between them? I don't remember hearing anything about them at all.


3SoH is really bad. I'm with Clique on their HiaC. Thought it was great but we're the minority, a lot of people think it's too long, too slow, boring, and generally sucky.

They had a match on Raw in '03 which is excellent.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Mysterio fan said:


> Taker is a legend but he is quite overrated in the IWC, no one can deny that.


I wouldn't say he's overrated. I don't hear or see him in many GOAT discussions or lists or anything of that nature.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

IMO the only HBK/HHH matches worth watching are the Raw 29/12/03 match and Raw 27/03/2006 matches. Pretty much dislike all their PPV bouts.


----------



## Mysterio fan (Apr 11, 2012)

BUBZ said:


> I wouldn't say he's overrated. *I don't hear or see him in many GOAT discussions or lists or anything of that nature.*


You gotta be kidding me. Taker is ALWAYS part of those discussions.


HBK/HHH summerslam is a really good match imo.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I believe Undertaker is a contender for greatest of all time in overall. And one of the best WWE workers in the ring. So many matches, so many classics, so many matches of the year, so many shows stolen, and getting better as he aged. Old School Texas style wrassler. The last of a dying breed.

his career overall? Its one of the best ever. Modern day Andre, but more complete


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Changing topic, Brock bloodying Cena on Raw was awesome. They could have a really good hard-hitting match at Extreme Rules.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Thats the kind of thing missing in wrestling today. real tension, heat, instability

Problem with the rock vs cena feud was, it was too manufactured. Too plastic


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Had to laugh at how they handled the Brock/Cena feud on Raw this week. Starts off with a bang... then Cena wrestles OTUNGA? Talk about taking a nose dive :lmao.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Mysterio fan said:


> You gotta be kidding me. Taker is ALWAYS part of those discussions.


And deservedly so. Besides Hogan, Austin, and Rock the only ones I think you could arguably put above him are Flair and Andre. That's just me though. I have Taker right behind the elite 3 in GOAT list.

On Lesnar/Cena, the brawl was awesome. It just feels like forever since we've had an awesome, legit looking brawl like that.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Mysterio fan said:


> Taker is a legend but he is quite overrated in the IWC, no one can deny that.


No way. I'm in here all the time and there isn't constant Taker love here at all.

HIAC Trips/HBK was awesome, loved that match.

I strangely marked for a bloody Cena, whether it was supposed to happen or not, I don't know. 2 weeks of them and I think everyone has loved it.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

The HIAC between HHH/HBK is a match I cant watch without doing something else. It just bores me, but for some reason, if im doing something else like doing an essay for uni on my laptop, I really enjoy watching it and do get that war type feel to the match.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Well it does almost peak for 50 minutes but could have easily been done in 30 mins. People probably hate it because it's the Trips, and theres always Trips hate stealing the limelight again in a 50 minute match malarky.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hate it because I don't think HHH and HBK have very good chemistry together. At all. I put them with the likes of HBK/Bret, Orton/Cena and Cena/Edge as guys who had tons of fucking matches and rarely had one I liked .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Right now they have the potential to give Punk a really good long title reign like Cena had in '07 and they better not drop the ball. The Jericho feud is going well and they can stretch that out for a while longer. Then they have ready made programs with Christian and Henry waiting to happen and potentially Lord Tensai and maybe Brock somewhere down the line. He needs to have a PPV match with Bryan too.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Benoit/Kane > HBK/Triple H


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Benoit/Kane from Bad Blood 2004 is ****. Amazing match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Does anyone remember this segment(s) from the go-home Raw before Bad Blood 2003? I know HHH/Nash isn't the best match-up but the build right here couldn't have been better. From Austin/Foley promo to HHH/Foley promo (sick bumps and chairshots to Mick) to the brawl to JR's COMMENTARY it was executed very well.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Was Bad Blood any good? 2003 & 2004? I've seen Nash/Trips, its only llike ***1/4

I'd love for them to call the Hell in a Cell PPV, Bad Blood.

Some people may not agree but I reckon JR adds a few snowflakes on my star ratings, he puts over a match better than anyone ever has and probably ever will. The commentators coming through at the moment are weak.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Watched a lot of wrestling recently as I've been ill for a while, watching 04 PPV's recently and caught Bad Blood 04 the other week. Pretty average PPV considering the talent involved. 04 PPV's are a lot weaker than 05, especially the awful SD ones.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I would strongly recommend No Mercy 2006. The card on paper isn't amazing but I assure you it is ag good event. Some good technical wrestling, brawling, spotfest type matches. There is pretty much something for everyone.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

In 06, No Way Out, Backlash, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Armageddon are all fantastic 'b' PPV's. The others not mentioned are all watchable too. Not a fan of New Years Revolution 06 though. Big Show v Triple H is a good match, better than I thought it would be, but the Elimination Chamber in my eyes was awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plenty of the SD PPVs are worth a watch in 06. Hell, most of SD 06 is worth a watch in general. Finlay was the fucking KING that year. He should have been World Champ, not Booker T.

Raw so far, in terms of match quality, is fairing better than I thought it would. Just stuck atm since the show I'm up to is in awful quality and out of sync on the download I got, and I can't seem to find a better version.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I love Taker but I really have no desire to see him at Mania next year. If he wrestles at Mania next year it taints how amazing the HiaC match/ending was. It was just a great way to go out imho. My guess is he WILL be back but I think he should ride off into the sunset. Only thing that could top it would be a HiaC rematch with Brock but I will be shocked if Brock V Rock isnt happening at Mania 29. Anything can happen between now and then though.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> I believe Undertaker is a contender for greatest of all time in overall. And one of the best WWE workers in the ring. So many matches, so many classics, so many matches of the year, so many shows stolen, and getting better as he aged. Old School Texas style wrassler. The last of a dying breed.
> 
> his career overall? Its one of the best ever. Modern day Andre, but more complete


More complete?! Except for an agonizingly-slow ending you keep waiting for.

Many matches? Yeah but lots have that. Many classics? Eh. MOTY? Not in the last several. Stolen? Only if you're counting by the minute. Getting better as he aged? Maybe you've also aged & need your eyes checked.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Clique said:


> Does anyone remember this segment(s) from the go-home Raw before Bad Blood 2003? I know HHH/Nash isn't the best match-up but the build right here couldn't have been better. From Austin/Foley promo to HHH/Foley promo (sick bumps and chairshots to Mick) to the brawl to JR's COMMENTARY it was executed very well.


That was great. Marked for Flair coming down to the ring with blood all over him :lmao


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ownage™;11314253 said:


> That was great. Marked for Flair coming down to the ring with blood all over him :lmao


I know! LOL

But the way JR put over Foley and Nash was godly. "Michael Francis Foely will not die!" and "the 7-foot 300-pound assassin" are so over-the-top but gold. Also "His HEART didn't retire... his SOUL didn't retire... his PASSION didn't retire!!!"

But nothing better than at the end when he says, "It's going to be a blood bath SUNDAAAY!!!"

God I love JR.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Thoughts on Bret vs Undertaker match from One Night Only match ? For me it's the best non gimmic straight wrestling match Taker has ever had. People may argue that Taker vs HBK matches from Mania are better, but no way ONO match had better psychology & storytelling in the ring.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

TJChurch said:


> More complete?! Except for an agonizingly-slow ending you keep waiting for.
> 
> Many matches? Yeah but lots have that. Many classics? Eh. MOTY? Not in the last several. Stolen? Only if you're counting by the minute. Getting better as he aged? Maybe you've also aged & need your eyes checked.


People who hate can sometimes understand the other persons point of view but you just go in blind with everything you say.

Classics? Eh? I'll name a few shall I?

Bad Blood vs. Michaels *****
Vengeance vs. Angle vs. Rock ****1/2
No Mercy vs. Lesnar ****3/4
Wrestlemania 17, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28
Summerslam vs. Edge ****1/2
No Way Out vs. Angle ****1/2

Theres a small handful there. And a lot of them could/are MOTY.

Stolen? Well he has stolen Wrestlemania for the past 4 years. And his match quality has got better as he has aged although I do love old Taker.

Haters gonna hate.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> More complete?! Except for an agonizingly-slow ending you keep waiting for.
> 
> Many matches? Yeah but lots have that. Many classics? Eh. MOTY? Not in the last several. Stolen? Only if you're counting by the minute. Getting better as he aged? Maybe you've also aged & need your eyes checked.


Why would you want him gone so bad? He has one match a year where he always delivers, and then he leaves. No spotlight hogging

Ok, im really getting bored here.

You said lets take this into rants, why not


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No wonder that guy is on my ignore list. Seems none of his posts are worth reading :lmao.

@Clique: Watched that video from Raw 03. Great stuff. Though its no wonder Bad Blood 03 sucked so back, they run down the card at the start of the video and its all just hideous :lmao. Flair/HBK on paper looks good and the HIAC was something I was interested at the time, and everything else was just some random mish-mash of shit thrown together .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

At Mania I begged with everything I had to see JR walk down that aisle and then Cole came out. I died a little inside lol. Then just before the HIAC I thought Justin Roberts was going to say HOF'er HBK but he didn't, he announced JR and I marked, like seriously marked. Even though I couldn't hear him at the time lol, just knowing that he was calling the match made me happy. The man is an absolute God and a lot of WWE's most iconic moments wouldn't be half as iconic without his voice all over them. One of my personal favorites is this:






From start to finish he's just pure fucking gold. 

"DAMN TRIPLE H, DAMN HIS SOUL!"

"THE GAME HAS SCREWED STONE COLD OUT OF THE WWF BAH GAWD TITLE!"

"LETS GET IT ON HERE, YOU COST AUSTIN THE TITLE...YOU BASTARD!"

"THERE AINT NO ANCHOR TIED TO HIS ASS!"

"YOU CAN FEEL IT....YOU CAN SEE IT.....YOU CAN TASTE IT.....AND BAH GAWD HERE THEY GO!"

"THE SONUVABITCH HIT HIM IN THE HEAD WITH A STEEL PIPE!"

"DAMN YOU HELMSLEY! DAMN YOU, DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL TRIPLE H! YOU SON OF A BITCH"

"AUSTIN JUST GOT COST HIS DREAM, HIS DREAM IS OVER. TRIPLE H, YOU SUNUVABITCH!"

Fuck me if that didn't sell the PPV to you I don't know what would lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

TJ, which wrestlers do you like/think are good?


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I just watched the Raw v Smackdown match at SS 05, thought it was great fun, and a great way to end a good survivor series.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Word said:


> People who hate can sometimes understand the other persons point of view but you just go in blind with everything you say.


No; I have watched several of his matches for many years (when he has had more than 1 a calendar). What I try to see but am unable is how people can like them so much consistently.



hell_kaiser said:


> Classics? Eh? I'll name a few shall I?
> 
> Bad Blood vs. Michaels *****
> Vengeance vs. Angle vs. Rock ****1/2
> ...


If you want to go through & discuss any/all of those, that's fine. But the fact that you say so many of his matches are classics &/or MOTY candidates makes me feel you might be sort of a blind fan when it comes to Taker; "If he's involved, it's a classic when he gets in the ring."



hell_kaiser said:


> Stolen? Well he has stolen Wrestlemania for the past 4 years. And his match quality has got better as he has aged although I do love old Taker.


Disagree w/all of the above.



hell_kaiser said:


> Haters gonna hate.


And people like you will just "mark out". (We could call you a "lover", but I imagine it might upset Michelle.)

As for what redead said, "One match a year where he always delivers"? The match a year is undeniable. Always delivers is easily denied.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker marks are getting trolled imo.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I consistently ask you in every damn post to explain WHY you dislike his matches

Not a single time have i seen a goddamn explanation as to why those matches suck

Hey guys, look at me Im TJChurch!

You know who I hate? that shawn michaels guy. show stopper? more like, i feel like stop watching the show when he's on! mr wrestlemania? more like, mr change the channel! heart break kid? no kidding, my heart breaks every time I see this old bastard hogging the spotlight!

his matches are never good. I mentioned totally why this one time like 43 pages ago, but seeing as how great my opinion is, i wont share it again, because you plebians arent worth me reposting or explaining why i feel that way. i mean seriously, fuck you guys. you're lucky i even waste my genius time talking to you losers. and if you disagree with my opinion, well, you cant. because its my opinion. na na na nana na

/TJchurch


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Had to laugh at how they handled the Brock/Cena feud on Raw this week. Starts off with a bang... then Cena wrestles OTUNGA? Talk about taking a nose dive :lmao.


Not a shocker though with the push Mr. Hudson is getting.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

TJChurch said:


> No; I have watched several of his matches for many years (when he has had more than 1 a calendar). What I try to see but am unable is how people can like them so much consistently.
> 
> If you want to go through & discuss any/all of those, that's fine. But the fact that you say so many of his matches are classics &/or MOTY candidates makes me feel you might be sort of a blind fan when it comes to Taker; "If he's involved, it's a classic when he gets in the ring."
> 
> ...


Taker been in a lot of shit. I was speaking to someone on here about how god awful his first half of his wrestlemania matches were. I don't think every time Taker steps into the ring it's going to be a classic bit if it warrants a high rating then I'll give it one. I mean I pointed out about 10 matches in his 20 year career, granted there are many more but there's a whole lot of shit in there too.

Fair enough Taker has one match a year now but in that one match, 90% of that roster couldn't do what he does in that ring.



Starbuck said:


> Taker marks are getting trolled imo.


I'm no mark I just appreciate his work.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> At Mania I begged with everything I had to see JR walk down that aisle and then Cole came out. I died a little inside lol. Then just before the HIAC I thought Justin Roberts was going to say HOF'er HBK but he didn't, he announced JR and I marked, like seriously marked. Even though I couldn't hear him at the time lol, just knowing that he was calling the match made me happy. The man is an absolute God and a lot of WWE's most iconic moments wouldn't be half as iconic without his voice all over them. One of my personal favorites is this:
> 
> 
> 
> From start to finish he's just pure fucking gold. "DAMN TRIPLE H, DAMN HIS SOUL!" "THE GAME HAS SCREWED STONE COLD OUT OF THE WWF BAH GAWD TITLE!" "LETS GET IT ON HERE, YOU COST AUSTIN THE TITLE...YOU BASTARD!" "THERE AINT NO ANCHOR TIED TO HIS ASS!" "YOU CAN FEEL IT....YOU CAN SEE IT.....YOU CAN TASTE IT.....AND BAH GAWD HERE THEY GO!" "THE SONUVABITCH HIT HIM IN THE HEAD WITH A STEEL PIPE!" "DAMN YOU HELMSLEY! DAMN YOU, DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL TRIPLE H! YOU SON OF A BITCH" "AUSTIN JUST GOT COST HIS DREAM, HIS DREAM IS OVER. TRIPLE H, YOU SUNUVABITCH!" Fuck me if that didn't sell the PPV to you I don't know what would lol.


I totally remember that RAW. IIRC I think it was early 2001 right? Obviously before the Rock won the title back from Angle. Something I always found strange about that era is we never had Austin V HHH for the title at Wrestlemania. That and I don't ever recall Austin ever beating HHH clean from 1999-2002. I could be wrong but I can't recall. 

Great stuff. JR is a fucking stud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still amazes me that JR can be THAT awesome on a consistent basis, have the FANS give him standing ovations when he goes to the ring (either before the show starts, or when he's brought out during a show) AND have the wrestlers refer to him as one of the best announcers ever (HHH and Undertaker specifically asked for JR to call their WM match btw)... yet Vince and a few other higher ups are OBSESSED with showing him up on TV and keeping him away from the announce table. Insane. And even after all the shit they throw at him and all the times he's been legit fired, he is still a loyal company man.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

It's amazing what a commentator can bring to a match/show/PPV.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

JR is a God. He makes shit moments less shit, he makes average moments good, he makes good moments great, he makes great moments amazing, he makes amazing moments epic and he makes epic moments iconic. I'll never understand why he isn't on commentary when he's _that_ good. I guarantee that having him on Raw every week would no doubt make the show infinitely more watchable, entertaining and not to mention they might actually get somebody over instead of fucking burying them through Cole every week.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> JR is a God. He makes shit moments less shit, he makes average moments good, he makes good moments great, he makes great moments amazing, he makes amazing moments epic and he makes epic moments iconic. I'll never understand why he isn't on commentary when he's _that_ good. I guarantee that having him on Raw every week would no doubt make the show infinitely more watchable, entertaining and not to mention they might actually get somebody over instead of fucking burying them through Cole every week.


Exactly, the man is amazing. Good commentary really does add to a match imo.

Btw, I didn't realise there was a place like this around here to have good, sensible discussions about WWE. This seems like a really good thread (apart from TJChurch), wish I had looked in here sooner. Good stuff.

I've been going through pretty much all of HBK's Wrestlemania matches again, and I'm thinking HBK/Taker at 25 might be my favorite. It seemed even better than when I watched it at the time actually. The 26 match is probably just as good, but the crowd wasn't as good and it didn't have JR who was awesome on the 25 match. Both are awesome matches though for different reasons.

HBK/Cena was really good, not as good as I remembered but it did have a really great big time match feel. The Angle match is great too, but again not as good as I thought it was the last time I watched it. It did have more of a coherent story than I thought it did though with Angle going after the back for a while but then that obviously gave way to ankle locks etc. It's one of Angles best matches though and he was actually really good back then. It's a shame what's happened to him now though, I guess it's a case of them letting him just do what he wants now.

I really liked the Flair match a lot more than when I first saw it. Flair actually hitting the cross body was amazing lol. It was awesome to see Flair in that kind of big time match again after so long and he really gave it his all. The end was incredible. Not the best in ring match, but I loved it for other reasons.

I also watched Taker/Shawn HIAC which is one of if not the best WWF/E match ever.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Word said:


> It's amazing what a commentator can bring to a match/show/PPV.


Agreed. Looking back there were so many PPVs that Gorilla/Ventura and Gorilla/Heenan made better than they really were. There is a reason the entire 1992 Royal Rumble is on the Heenan DVD. Yes it's one of the best Rumbles but those two also make it that much better.


----------



## Edible (Apr 15, 2012)

Does anyone have an update on the bands that will be used for upcoming CM Punk DVD?


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Michaels vs. Cena - WrestleMania 23

***

Michaels was the only good part of this match 2bh.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Geolink said:


> Michaels vs. Cena - WrestleMania 23
> 
> ***
> 
> Michaels was the only good part of this match 2bh.


That's the lowest I've seen this match? Thought it was pretty amazing tbh, although I haven't seen it in a few years.


----------



## HeavyWeight (Mar 26, 2012)

This WrestleMania 17 original DVD, I will find you.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Word said:


> That's the lowest I've seen this match? Thought it was pretty amazing tbh, although I haven't seen it in a few years.


Posted that as soon as I finished watching it so it's pretty fresh in my mind.

Cena was okay... but HBK was just plain better. It was nice to see Cena get his moment at WrestleMania but not even the crowd bought into it 2bh.

Both men went through hell the entire match but the only thing that annoyed me was Michaels working on Cena's leg for the entire first 20 minutes of the match then Cena half-ass sell job of it, then all of a sudden he can run and do his 5 moves of doom which lead to a FU on Michaels.

The rest of the match King/J.R. and Cena forget about the bad leg he got in the first half of the match and continues to wrestle Michaels no problem... no hobbling, no nothing.

Of course Michaels tapping out to that half assed STFU must of gotten hardcore HBK fans pissed.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Word said:


> It's amazing what a commentator can bring to a match/show/PPV.


Or take from it.

Put Piper aside, & the best moment of Smackdown was Cole getting surrounded. Wish Brock had bloodied his lip.

Oh, & you can stop yelling at/about me. I gave & explained my opinion SEVERAL pages ago. It appears you want to know it, but can't be bothered to look for it again, so I tried several more times to explain it (a little less this time, since it is an additional). Rather than debate my opinions, people prefer to attack me as a person.

Yet I notice the Taker fans only give their opinions in much the same way, trying to state them as though they are undeniable fact (the way redeadening seemed to, ironically, mock me for doing).


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

HeavyWeight said:


> This WrestleMania 17 original DVD, I will find you.


Aw man you will love it once you find a decent price.

Got mine May of last year for $60 on Half.com and I cherish it. Definitely a gem.

It won't get any cheaper than $60 online. My copy looks brand new and it has all the inserts and the DVD's are scratch-free.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got WM 17 original DVD online a few years ago for about £10 (around $20 at the time). Also got WM 15, 16 and 18 original DVD's for around the same price over the years .


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I watched HBK/Cena yesterday, and the whole point and story of the match was that Michaels was better, which made the fact that he was better all the more better . Michaels showing how much more skilled and experienced he was was awesome at the start. I agree the leg selling was poor in the long run, but I think it made sense for Michaels to try and go after a body part to show his veteran instincts. Thought it was good how HBK took his eye off the game (the leg) and cena capitalised on it to get the upper hand, he did sell it very well while HBK was actually doing the workover but yeah, in the long term the selling could have been better and really improved the match. Just want to say that the moonsault Michaels did to Cena on the announce table was a thing of beauty.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Geolink said:


> Posted that as soon as I finished watching it so it's pretty fresh in my mind.
> 
> Cena was okay... but HBK was just plain better. It was nice to see Cena get his moment at WrestleMania but not even the crowd bought into it 2bh.
> 
> ...


HBK sure did carry him, no question about that. I'll have to watch the match again though. No selling bugged me but if Cena ain't selling then its right for JR and Lawler not to mention anything after all this is Cena and the casual fan won't even recognise a no sell by Cena.

And Cena was still in Super Super Super man mode at this point so STFU was inevitable.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> Or take from it.
> 
> Put Piper aside, & the best moment of Smackdown was Cole getting surrounded. Wish Brock had bloodied his lip.
> 
> ...


i already explained my opinion. just look back and im sure you can find it

i dont know you as a person, but im sure youre wonderful to be around


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I have WM 17 on VHS and there is a place in town that puts VHS tapes on DVD for $5 a piece. I'm too busy and lazy to learn how to do it so not too bad. One day I will get it put on DVD. 

I'm focusing on building my PPV collection. Last week I bit the bullet and bought Survivor Series 2001 on DVD. I fucking LOVE that PPV. One of my favs ever. I had it on VHS as well (dubbed from the PPV feed though from a friend) but it was only $25 used on amazon so I grabbed it and it's in great condition. I won't spend more than that on just one DVD. I really want Backlash 2001, Judgement Day 2001 & 2002, Vengeance 2002, etc but no way Im going to pay THAT much for one PPV when you can watch it for free on You Tube. I think I'm going to tackle the Royal Rumbles in the next few weeks.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

redeadening said:


> i already explained my opinion. just look back and im sure you can find it
> 
> i dont know you as a person, but im sure youre wonderful to be around


Clearly, as you continue to enjoy mocking me.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

man, after watching Fella vs Bryan from Dublin I really hope they give them 20+ minutes on Extreme Rules. They could have something special considering Chicago is gonna be red hot for that match...






thoughts?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't see Michaels/Cena as a carry job at all. I think Shawn was better was in it, but Cena wasn't along for the ride. The leg selling point can bug me on some watches and not bother me on others. Michaels didn't worj on it THAT long, did he? IDR.

Their longass Raw match is mostly Cena. Great, great performance and he definitely outdid Shawn that night.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't see Michaels/Cena as a carry job at all. I think Shawn was better was in it, but Cena wasn't along for the ride. The leg selling point can bug me on some watches and not bother me on others. Michaels didn't worj on it THAT long, did he? IDR.
> 
> Their longass Raw match is mostly Cena. Great, great performance and he definitely outdid Shawn that night.


Nah, the leg workover wasn't even that long, and Cena sold it like death for that amount of time.

And yeah, Cena was amazing in the RAW match. Really the 'Cena can't wrestle' mind set should have ended after that but sadly it didn't.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

It's arguable Cena may have out-shined Shawn in the Raw match due to an impressive control segment but I don't feel he out-worked Shawn at all. Cena has great chemistry with Shawn and they were pretty equal for the ride imo. Just like at Mania Shawn's character worked arguably outshined Cena's but they are good dance partners.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

This week I got Backlash 2001 ($36) and King of the Ring 2001 ($25) both from eBay. Great prices 2bh.

Both in like new condition with the inserts. Won't find a good deal like that often.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

That Shaemus/Bryan match was sweet! Now I'm even more pissed they didn't give us that at Mania. With the ER match being 2/3 falls, it definitely gives me hope they will get a good amount of time to play with and put on something as good as if not better than that match.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

I actually think that if they give Fella the 1st fall in just seconds the All State Arena is gonna explode with heat. Bryan pulling every trick in the book to tie the match (and get to the 3rd Fall, that I'm pretty sure they are gonna make a Submission Match) with a hot crowd would be outstanding imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't wait to see Bryan/Sheamus live on Wednesday :mark:.

Cena/HBK from WM is really good, but I'm not as high on it as some people. Definitely thought Batista/Undertaker that night was better, as was the Raw match. And as far as I remember HBK didn't work the leg that long so the "no selling" doesn't bother me nor has a reason to bother me. Its not like a certain Iron Man where a certain person has his arm worked over for damn near half an hour and forgets about it in an instant :side:.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena/Shawn
Mania: *****3/4*
RAW: ******


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I dont think Cena not selling the leg in the WM 23 match should bug anyone. I once counted how long the leg work was, and it was only 2 minutes. Also, keep in mind that HBK didnt really do anything to Cena's leg, other then punch it a couple of times. 

Cena sold it after a little bit, but then continued working the match without selling it because the damage to the leg wasnt big at all, and if HBK wanted him to sell, or make a story of it, he should have continued to work on the leg.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Sparta101 said:


> I dont think Cena not selling the leg in the WM 23 match should bug anyone. I once counted how long the leg work was, and it was only 2 minutes. Also, keep in mind that HBK didnt really do anything to Cena's leg, other then punch it a couple of times.
> 
> Cena sold it after a little bit, but then continued working the match without selling it because the damage to the leg wasnt big at all, and if HBK wanted him to sell, or make a story of it, he should have continued to work on the leg.


I still don't see what makes the match anything more than three stars?


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Mankind vs. Taker (Hell in a Cell) - King of the Ring '98

*****

Amazing match. Foley goes the table in the first 3 minutes of the match, gets up, goes through the cell into the ring... the brutality the man went through this match is amazing. Plus J.R. and King's commentary throughout the whole thing is exceptional, one of a kind, and definitely made the match a timeless classic. It makes me wonder if the both of them really knew Taker was dropping Foley off the cell... twice.

Undertaker was just as good in the match putting Foley through hell as he came back wanting for more. Now I don't know exactly what lead up to this match for it to be so barbaric because I always have just seen the match and not the promo for the match or any of the buildup, but I'm sure Undertaker hated the hell out of Mankind like always.

Foley smiling as he was pushing off Funk and the others trying to help him to the back after falling off the cell was crazy!

Only part that got to me was the crowd cheering for Undertaker after Foley's near-death bumps, and then not even giving the man the pop he deserved after the match. I mean they did clap for Mick but it wasn't loud enough in my opinion... I guess they didn't know how to react at the moment... I don't blame them as much.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

So i saw TNA Lockdown yesterday

it confirmed all my worst fears about kurt angle


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I most definitely will not be watching that show after what I've read.

Taker/Foley is weird because it feels so fucking huge and epic when you are watching it, and the bumps are insane and so is Foley continuing to fight not to mention almost just laughing it off. But the match itself really isn't anything to write home about after the crazy shit happens. It's still awesome to watch though.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

BUBZ said:


> Taker/Foley is weird because it feels so fucking huge and epic when you are watching it, and the bumps are insane and so is Foley continuing to fight not to mention almost just laughing it off. But the match itself really isn't anything to write home about after the crazy shit happens. It's still awesome to watch though.


Exactly.
It isn't a technical match so let's just put that away immediately.

But the crazy ECW-like bumps and the commentary makes the match classic.

Plus when I think of Hell in a Cell matches it's the first match that pops into my head.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

This week's Wild Wednesday from SilverVision:

Randy Orton: The Evolution of a Predator

DVD £7.99
Blu-ray £8.99


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Geolink said:


> Exactly.
> It isn't a technical match so let's just put that away immediately.
> 
> But the crazy ECW-like bumps and the commentary makes the match classic.
> ...


its not even a wrestling match. at all


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Geolink said:


> Mankind vs. Taker (Hell in a Cell) - King of the Ring '98
> 
> *****


:lmao

Three stars for Cena/Michaels and five stars for this? :lmao



redeadening said:


> So i saw TNA Lockdown yesterday
> 
> it confirmed all my worst fears about kurt angle


Did he die?


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I honestly don't see what all the big hype is about the Mankind and Taker HIAC match, sure it had two big bumps but thats about it. They've had better matches between them before and after that event, there was no build up to those moments/bumps, if I remember correctly the match began at the top of the cell, jumping straight into a few punches and then throwing him off. Sure it was fun to watch at the time but not five stars at all, there was no wrestling or back and forth action and chemistry even involved.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

It WAS a wrestling match. Hardcore style is still WRESLTING.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Of course, it was a wrestling match. It just wasn't a very good wrestling match.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker wrestled Foley at KOTR 98 with a broken foot..they are two tough SOBs.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Geolink said:


> Mankind vs. Taker (Hell in a Cell) - King of the Ring '98
> 
> *****


Ha. *** for Michaels/Cena then the full 5 for this? Can't really understand that.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Taker/FOley HIAC is on of the funnest matches of all time, and it deserves all the praise that it gets. There are two huge spots that deserve praise, but a lot of people dont see anything else besides those two spots. The story of the match is Foley taking a beating of his life, and still going and putting on a very good fight against Undertaker. I mean you just felt sorry for the guy. I started the match wanting Taker to win, but by the end of it all I was wanting Foley to win. His performance was amazing. Seeing that tooth in his nose added to the match as well.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> It WAS a wrestling match. Hardcore style is still WRESLTING.


It wasnt. It was just a stuntman, a guy trying to kill himself, and sadism. It was spots chained together with occasional wrestling

Only match I hate more is Rock vs Mick at the Rumble



Hohenheim of Light said:


> :lmao
> 
> Three stars for Cena/Michaels and five stars for this? :lmao
> 
> ...


No. I was expecting a No Surrender match, a car crash, but instead, I got something different

First segment was great, Kurt heeling it up, control, slow, beating him down, punishing him. Solid stuff. And then Jeff hit a stunner twist of fate (commentary called it a twist of stunner). Jeff climbed the cage, and just as he was doing that, Kurt no sold the fuck out of that to hit a top rope suplex. I mean god, Jesus himself woulda been in awe of how easily Kurt shrugged off the finisher from Jeff

Then, it just got worse and worse. It literally devolved into a finisher spam contest. Jeff hit another twist of fate, two swantons (or three, cant remember) and went for the pin. Kurt kicked out. Angle slam, Jeff kicked out. There could have been some story about proving one was better than the other, but honestly, didnt see it asides from one of two moves, which included Jeff hitting an ankle lock and angle slam. And then finally, ankle lock, blah blah, top rope swanton, 1....2......3

Jeff wins. This is wrestling. etc etc

After the no sell, everything resembling logic flew out the window. They literally stopped giving a fuck and spammed finishers. Thats it. the buildup made no sense and was retarded, and was barely mentioned in the match, the swantan, angle slam, and twist were all made out to be the equivalent of a suplex, and the yahoos in the audience chanted this is 'wrestling'. Another part I hated was, they had nothing to prove. This wasnt a title match, blood feud, or hell, even number one contenders. And yet, they still did all that shit. It devalues the moves in every way possible

I found it utterly, and completely, stupid. Only upside, no moonsault off the top. THANK GAWWWD

Kudos to Kurt for taking the barrage of swantons, but honestly, dont give a fuck.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

But 5 stars, seriously? There was probably about 10 minutes or wrestling and 15 of foley nearly dying.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

redeadening said:


> No. I was expecting a No Surrender match, a car crash, but instead, I got something different
> 
> First segment was great, Kurt heeling it up, control, slow, beating him down, punishing him. Solid stuff. And then Jeff hit a stunner twist of fate (commentary called it a twist of stunner). Jeff climbed the cage, and just as he was doing that, Kurt no sold the fuck out of that to hit a top rope suplex. I mean god, Jesus himself woulda been in awe of how easily Kurt shrugged off the finisher from Jeff
> 
> ...


I don't even want to try to understand.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Currently sitting through No Mercy 2001. Shit video package to hype the event seeming as the whole show was focused on the Triple Threat but as long as it delivers I'm not too bothered. Opener was very, very fun.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> At Mania I begged with everything I had to see JR walk down that aisle and then Cole came out. I died a little inside lol. Then just before the HIAC I thought Justin Roberts was going to say HOF'er HBK but he didn't, he announced JR and I marked, like seriously marked. Even though I couldn't hear him at the time lol, just knowing that he was calling the match made me happy. The man is an absolute God and a lot of WWE's most iconic moments wouldn't be half as iconic without his voice all over them. One of my personal favorites is this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Watching that video the intensity is so high here. What an unforgettable Raw moment.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm sticking to the five stars I gave Foley/Taker at KOTR '98... It's a classic.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

The Bad Guy said:


> I honestly don't see what all the big hype is about the Mankind and Taker HIAC match, sure it had two big bumps but thats about it. They've had better matches between them before and after that event, there was no build up to those moments/bumps, if I remember correctly the match began at the top of the cell, jumping straight into a few punches and then throwing him off. Sure it was fun to watch at the time but not five stars at all, there was no wrestling or back and forth action and chemistry even involved.


Exactly. It's a straight up fight.

I don't how you could wrestle and put on a chemistry match when Foley damn near kills himself twice before the 7 minute mark. Mankind was fighting for his life and he didn't want to go down easy. Undertaker brought it too him until he gave up.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Its memorable yes, but its just a guy almost dying over and over

It barely has any wrestling

im not even sure what the story is in that match

Its not a fight, its spots. A fight is Mick vs Triple H at the Rumble, or Austin vs Rock at Wrestlemania 17.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

redeadening said:


> Its memorable yes, but its just a guy almost dying over and over
> 
> It barely has any wrestling
> 
> im not even sure what the story is in that match


I forgot to mention that the commentary alone added a star to the match.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Commentary was epic but it doesnt change the fact that, well, there wasnt much of anything

It was literally just a guy almost dying, and two spots. Thats it


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

So the HIAC is now **** but an extra * is added because of commentary?

The match is 20 minutes long, I reckon only 10 of which was actual brawling/wrestling. Yes two sick bumps were epic and it's one of the most if not the most memorable match of all time. To give it the full ***** is silly though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think it's best to not rate the Mankind/Taker HIAC at all. A rating will never do what the match represents justice. Mick Foley put his life was on the line that night. Taker took a chance too going into it with a broken foot. This match was on another level from any match that you just rate. There are probably a ton of Raw matches better than this match but this match shouldn't be looked at from that perspective imo. Same with Hogan/Andre WM3 and to a certain extent Hart/Michaels SS97. HIAC was a memorable WWE moment that will have images and video for the ages. It made Mick Foley a legend.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

That HIAC between Taker and Mankind probably is the most famous match in the business history. If not, top 3. Imo.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

That doesnt make it a good match

The closest equivalent is a car crash

Clique is right, its unrateable. Its place in history cannot be denied, but honestly, i dont feel comfortable calling it a match. I respect the hell out of mick, but he shouldnt have done it or the match with Rock at the Rumble


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

If anyone cares this guy on YouTube has every raw, smackdown and PPV throughout the invasion. 

I personally loved the Invasion, shame the big WCW stars didn't compete.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Word said:


> If anyone cares this guy on YouTube has every raw, smackdown and PPV throughout the invasion.
> 
> I personally loved the Invasion, shame the big WCW stars didn't compete.


Link please?

Or PM it.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Showing attitude era smackdowns, raws and PPVs?

not sure if people on this forum would be into that


8*D


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

redeadening said:


> Showing attitude era smackdowns, raws and PPVs?
> 
> not sure if people on this forum would be into that
> 
> ...


The attitude era ended at WM 17.

So its not the attitude era.

You do love talking about the attitude era, redeadening.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/user/WrestlemaniaInc?feature=watch

I think I'm allowed to do that, not sponsoring anything.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I consider the Mankind/Taker match more of a segment than a match. An insanely good segment. But honestly the pin is the least memorable part of that match.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanking you.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Word said:


> Currently sitting through No Mercy 2001. Shit video package to hype the event seeming as the whole show was focused on the Triple Threat but as long as it delivers I'm not too bothered. Opener was very, very fun.


One of my favourite PPVs

Kane vs Test is criminally underrated, Edge vs Christian in a ladder match is always going to be brilliant, Jericho vs Rock is a classic and the WWF title triple threat is a damn good watch.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Yeah Kane/Test was actually pretty good, not gonna throw snowflakes on it at the moment but I thought it was going to be a real sleeper but they had solid chemistry.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk v Henry no countout, no DQ for the title tonight on Raw. Tuning in for sure.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

These Punk v Henry matches really take me back to the Sting vs Vader ones



The-Rock-Says said:


> The attitude era ended at WM 17.
> 
> So its not the attitude era.
> 
> You do love talking about the attitude era, redeadening.


you sure do love talking about me and my opinions The-Rock-Says

its ok, you can hop aboard the redeadening bandwagon. everyone else has


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's time, once again, for everybody, to come aboard the REEEEEDEADENING TRAIN!

I'd mark the ever loving FUCK out of somehow Henry walked away with the title tonight. Not gonna happen, but still. :mark:


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Never knew Henry had so much potential

His matches with an in-form Taker were the definition of mediocre!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah Henry has come into his own over the last year or so.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He started looking awesome in 06 then went downhill and then kept getting injured. Then he started looking awesome again in... 08(?) when he won the ECW title. Then he went downhill again and probably got injured .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> He started looking awesome in 06 then went downhill and then kept getting injured. Then he started looking awesome again in... 08(?) when he won the ECW title. Then he went downhill again and probably got injured .


Sort of been the story of his career. Speaking on his career, Mark Henry's best singles match? Off the top, I'd probably go with Orton at Night of Champions 2011 or his Smackdown match with Mysterio in 06.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hmm... Best Henry match... the one against Mysterio in early 06 comes to mind. Same with the Benoit match in 06. Preferred the Big Show match when the ring collapsed to the Orton match tbh. Punk match 2 weeks ago was better than the Orton match as well imo.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

He had a good one with Taker too on SD in 06 if I remember correctly. Oh, Matt Hardy at No Mercy 08.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got their Feb 10th 06 match at ***. Would put all the matches I mentioned above it quite easily, but its definitely their best match together .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Henry/Angle from Judgment Day 06 surprised me the first time I saw it. Not only because it was good but they had an awful match at Royal Rumble that year so I wasn't expecting anything from it, but it worked out even with the finish they went with.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea what I rated it, but it must have been under *** (I'm too lazy to open the text document up again lol).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

You have all of your ratings saved on a document? Or are you just talking about that PPV review?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got all my SD 06 ratings (including PPV) in a doc, and then all my reviews for them in another. Same goes for what I've done for Raw 06 so far, and SD 07 so far (haven't done that for a while though lol).


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Clique said:


> He had a good one with Taker too on SD in 06 if I remember correctly. Oh, Matt Hardy at No Mercy 08.


The match he with Hardy at No Mercy was pretty awesome. Probably Henry's best personal performance as he wrestled a really smart fast paced match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Geolink said:


> This week I got Backlash 2001 ($36) and King of the Ring 2001 ($25) both from eBay. Great prices 2bh.
> 
> Both in like new condition with the inserts. Won't find a good deal like that often.


Wow good prices for both of those PPVs. I bid on Backlash 2001 this week but it got too high. I wonder if you won the copy I was watching? Great PPV. The Angle/Benoit match is fantastic. 

I have KOTR 2001 on VHS. Another solid PPV. I have been finding Judgement Day 2001 on dvd pretty cheap lately.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

At least **** for tonight's Punk/Henry match and like ****1/2 for their match the night after Mania.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Henry tonight was great. Crowd was awesome too.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WWE WrestleMania XX*

*United States Championship*: The Big Show vs. John Cena - *3/4

*World Tag Titles*: Booker T & Rob Van Dam vs. La Resistance vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. Garrison Cade & Mark Jindrack - **

Chris Jericho vs. Christian - ***1/2

The Rock 'n Sock Connection vs. Evolution - ***1/2

*Playboy Evening Gown Match*: Sable & Torrie Wilson vs. Stacy Keibler & Miss Jackie - DUD

*Cruiserweight Open* - **1/2

Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg - DUD

*WWE Tag Team Titles*: Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty vs. The APA vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team vs. The Bashams - *3/4

*Women's Title*: Victoria vs. Molly Holly - *1/2

*WWE Championship*: Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle - ****

The Undertaker vs. Kane - **1/4

*World Heavyweight Title*: Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit - ****1/2


This event always leaves me so conflicted. There's so much good, and so much bad, and a lot in between. Show/Cena is an awful opener, only worthwhile as the launch of Cena. But it was also the first appearance of the SuperCena formula, which I remember hating even back in 2004. His matches used to be more back and forth.

Jericho/Christian is a sleeper, nothing but great chemistry there and a twist I honestly didn't see coming. RocknSock/Evolution is a ton of fun, and the CW open is better than I remember, but still way too fast.

The problem is that the show is BLOATED. It's nearly FIVE hours long, and has at least FOUR matches you could cut out. The two tag title matches and two divas matches are just bland filler. Even worse, after the handicap match, we get a divas match, the CW open, Goldberg/Lesnar, the WWE tag titles, and the Women's title...that might be the worst, saggiest mid-section for a show ever. I mean, the quality just dies.

Which leads me to Goldberg/Lesnar. In a nutshell, I anticipated this match from July '03. I brought it up as a possibility for WM, yelped when they crossed paths at Survivor Series that year, and was ridiculously hyped for the match.

Eight years later, it's still one of the worst matches of all time. 3 minutes of staring at each other, locking up and then seperating, double clothelines, a rest hold, and then hitting their finishers. All the potential this match had, and it has no energy, no psychology, no effort, nothing. This match is worse than awful, it's NOTHING. It's not even a real match.

The last hour of the show, though, is great. Amazing that after all that crap, there'd be such an improvement. Guerrero/Angle is a great title match; great technically, for the flying, the exchanges, and a classic finish. Still love this.

UT/Kane is worth it for the hugeness of UT's return, probably the greatest entrance of all time.

HHH/Benoit/HBK is still a classic. So many great stories going on: Benoit fighting to grab the brass ring, HBK and HHH trying to settle their feud, HBK and Benoit agreeing on one of them beating HHH, and all with great action. It's a great match with so many classic moments, including HHH stopping HBK from tapping out, the glance between them before they suplex Benoit through the table, Benoit coming out of nowhere to break up a pin, HBK superkicking Benoit while applying the sharpshooter, getting dumped out of the ring, and then Benoit countering the pedigree into a crossface. Even better, when HHH rolls out and the hold is still applied.

The ending is beautiful, however bittersweet it may be today. 

I can understand why after this, WWE has had mostly 8-9 matches per WM. Can you imagine how much tighter this show would have been without the two tag titles matches, and the two divas matches. Plus, imagine if Goldberg/Lesnar were actually good, and this would have been one of the best ppvs of all time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't really get into star ratings but Punk V Henry was one of the best RAW matches in a long time and the best this year so far. 

Great crowd today. Mad props to UK. Give them a damn PPV. Maybe the next Royal Rumble or Elimination Chamber?


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Wow good prices for both of those PPVs. I bid on Backlash 2001 this week but it got too high. I wonder if you won the copy I was watching? Great PPV. The Angle/Benoit match is fantastic.
> 
> I have KOTR 2001 on VHS. Another solid PPV. I have been finding Judgement Day 2001 on dvd pretty cheap lately.


This is the Backlash I won.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390406329098?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

-Mystery- said:


> At least **** for tonight's Punk/Henry match and like ****1/2 for their match the night after Mania.


What is your opinion on the big three from WM28?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Lol'd at people in the Raw thread saying that crowd sucked.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Clique said:


> What is your opinion on the big three from WM28?


Probably at least **** for Punk/Jericho (wouldn't disagree with anyone that says ***1/2 or ***3/4 though), Rock/Cena at least ***3/4 (again, wouldn't disagree with anyone that says ***1/2 or ****), and Taker/HHH at least ****1/4 (haven't re-watched it yet, but will probably go up once I do. Loved it, but gave me a feeling that the last 3 Taker Mania matches didn't; what do I rate that?)


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I always agree the England crowds are good... Mainly because they don't get the shows (TV or house) as often as we do. Strangely enough, it seems the great crowds get them better-booked shows.

That said, my main thoughts after tonight's show...

1] I was shocked Cena's match was the main event, but no Lesnar involvement.

2] Speaking of Lesnar, thought it was interesting his video comments never mentioned the time he tried & failed to get in the NFL after he left the WWE.

3] Watching tape of Kane's remarks about family reunions from Friday strengthened my opinion that either he or Taker needs to get involved in the other's feud/storyline. WWE needs that kind of surprise right now.

4] We need to start a poll in these threads (like the one in the Diva thread) about WWE's biggest waste of time. Vickie, Brodus, Abraham Washington (or whatever he calls himself now),...


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

-Mystery- said:


> Taker/HHH at least ****1/4 (haven't re-watched it yet, but will probably go up once I do. Loved it, but gave me a feeling that the last 3 Taker Mania matches didn't; *what do I rate that?*)


Emotion usually is an added bonus in a huge match like this for me. It's one of those intangibles that separates it from other matches. The storytelling and brutality was immense work, though. I initially gave it the full five but that's on live watch from ringside. I'll have to re-watch on DVD.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Got my Royal Rumble volume 2 (1993-1997) set in the mail today. Only paid $29 for it (plus shipping) so it was a steal. Currently watching Bret Hart V Razor Ramon from Royal Rumble 1993. Love that match. A couple months ago I scored a poster from that PPV in mint condition off ebay for only $20. I'd love to get it signed by Bret someday. Something I always wondered about that Rumble is the ending. I love it until the ending. I was ok with Yoko winning (even as a 12 year old I thought he would) but WTF was with Mach going for the pin? Coke is a hell of a drug. 




Brye said:


> Lol'd at people in the Raw thread saying that crowd sucked.


Some of those smarks are probably some of the same people who go to Raw and just sit there on their hands. Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

So hard for me to put the last four Taker WM matches in order. If I had to I'd probably go...

WM XXVI
WM XXVIII
WM XXV
WM XXVII

But all at least ****1/4.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Clique said:


> Emotion usually is an added bonus in a huge match like this for me. It's one of those intangibles that separates it from other matches. The storytelling and brutality was immense work, though. I initially gave it the full five but that's on live watch from ringside. I'll have to re-watch on DVD.


Yeah, definitely. Also, my thoughts of 'what do I rate that?' weren't negative thoughts. After I watched Taker/Michaels I, Taker/Michaels II, Taker/HHH I there was a concrete idea in my head of a general rating, however, I didn't get that with Taker/HHH II. It was more like "huh, I got no idea what to rate that but it was awesome". Cena/Punk from MITB gave me a similar feeling.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Henry III was good but not on the same level as their first match. I want to re-watch it without the commercials before I slap a rating on it but I'm thinking *** or thereabouts (***1/2 for the one after Mania).


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

*The Trilogy*

Punk vs. Henry 4/2 - ***1/2
Punk vs. Henry 4/9 - N/A I don't think it's worth a DUD, better off not worth a rating
Punk vs. Henry 4/16 - ***

Not in love with it as many are. Punk WOTY at the moment.

*CM Punk 2012*

4/1 vs. Jericho - ****
4/2 vs. Henry - ***1/2
1/2 vs. Ziggler - ***1/2
1/29 vs. Ziggler - ***1/4
2/19 Elimination Chamber - ***1/4

I'm really looking forward to the Chicago Street Fight. I'd imagine that would be featuring in the list too.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Wait there were three henry/Punk matches?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Is Ladder Match 2 worth a pick up? It's currently on sale for £6.99


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

RevolverSnake said:


> Wait there were three henry/Punk matches?


Yes.



Arnold Tricky said:


> Is Ladder Match 2 worth a pick up? It's currently on sale for £6.99


Just looked at it. Looks like a pretty decent set. Few underrated gems in there and ladder matches are always fun to watch. 7 hours for £7 quid. Get it.


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

Selling the following books and DVDs:


WWE Vengeance 2003
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681830211?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

ROH Glory By Honor VIII: The Final Countdown
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681834864?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

WWE Unforgiven 2003
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681838270?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

WWE Armageddon 2005
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681840453?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


*Autobiographies*

Dynamite Kid
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681845359?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Shawn Michaels
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681848453?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Chris Jericho (pre-WWE)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681850848?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

RevolverSnake said:


> Wait there were three henry/Punk matches?



The match where Jericho smashed the whiskey over Punk's head after the match.

The match where Jericho brought the beer in and started pouring it over Punk.

Monday just gone.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Has anyone else recently seen No Mercy 2001? It's easily one of the best non wrestlemania PPVs ever. Fucking owns.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think much to NM 01. Outside of Jericho/Rock nothing really stands out to me. Triple Threat didn't hold up too well on last watch, and nothing else on the card is very good imo. Stacy and Torrie look hot in their match though. That's something .


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I thought it was pretty well booked throughout and all the matches were solid. Alright Stacey/Torrie was awful but they added a fun stip to get the crowd into it. I flicked through Meltzer ratings and whilst I don't always agree with him he had most of the undercard matches ***+ and the main events ****+

EDIT: For £6.99 I'm deffo picking up the ladder match 2 DVD set.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Mark. said:


> Selling the following books and DVDs:
> 
> 
> WWE Vengeance 2003
> ...


Interested in Vengeance 2003 and the Dynamite Kid book. I have always wanted to read that. I hear he is bitter and hated everyone.


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Interested in Vengeance 2003 and the Dynamite Kid book. I have always wanted to read that. I hear he is bitter and hated everyone.


Yeah, there's some classic stories amongst the hatred. Love him or hate him, you're bound to get emotionally involved in the book.

Feel free to bid on them, if you're interested.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Mark. said:


> Yeah, there's some classic stories amongst the hatred. Love him or hate him, you're bound to get emotionally involved in the book.
> 
> Feel free to bid on them, if you're interested.


I was a huge Bulldogs fan as a kid so I have always wanted to read it. I might just bid on both. Depends on the cash flow. Im trying to get 2001 PPvs right now and just got Survivor Series 2001 and Royal Rumbles 93-97.


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

Fair enough, just so long you know these are all over within 6 days.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Im a big fan of making lists so I'd love to hear everyones WWE(F) top 10 all time fav non Wrestlemania PPVs.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Im a big fan of making lists so I'd love to hear everyones WWE(F) top 10 all time fav non Wrestlemania PPVs.


1) Survivor Series 2002
2) Summerslam 2002
3) No Mercy 2001
4) Vengeance 2005
5) Backlash 2009
6) Summerslam 2001
7) Royal Rumble 2001
8) Unforgiven 2006
9) Backlash 2000
10) No Mercy 2006/Armageddon 2006 (tie, can't decide between them)


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*ECW One Night Stand 2006*

Randy Orton vs. Kurt Angle - ***1/2
The F.B.I. (Little Guido Maritato and Tony Mamaluke) (w/Big Guido) vs Yoshihiro Tajiri and Super Crazy - ***1/4
*World Championship* - Rey Mysterio(c) vs Sabu - ***1/2
Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer and Beulah vs Mick Foley, Edge and Lita - ****
Balls Mahoney vs Masato Tanaka - *1/2
*WWE Championship:* John Cena(c) vs. Rob Van Dam - ***3/4

Great event, glad I decided to put it in the PS3 and give it a watch for the first time in a long while. Every match delivered, even the Balls/Masato match was watchable despite the low rating I gave it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Kane-UK said:


> 1) Survivor Series 2002
> 2) Summerslam 2002
> 3) No Mercy 2001
> 4) Vengeance 2005
> ...


I'd replace Rumble 2001 with Vengeance 2003 and that's spot on, IMO.

I've been watching a lot of new stuff recently that I haven't seen before, might flick through some DVDs I've had a while. I always love watching PPVs i've seen before, gives you a real indication if the match is good or not, or if you just like it because of the atmosphere or the context, so to speak. No Mercy 2001 first.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I'd replace Rumble 2001 with Vengeance 2003 and that's spot on, IMO.


It might be a nostalgia thing.

RR 2001 was the first PPV I ever watched and it's what inspired me to become the Kane mark that I am today! I also loved the ladder match and the HHH v Angle match. The rumble match itself was very balanced, with short and sweet comedy spots and as a casual fan at the time, it felt like any number of guys could've won the thing (Austin, Kane, Rock, Taker, Rikishi, Big Show, even Haku).

I saw Vengeance 2003 not too long ago and it is a good show, however I was on a hiatus from wrestling when the show originally aired, so I was probably missing some of the atmosphere surrounding the PPV.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Baldwin. said:


> *ECW One Night Stand 2006*
> 
> Randy Orton vs. Kurt Angle - ***1/2
> The F.B.I. (Little Guido Maritato and Tony Mamaluke) (w/Big Guido) vs Yoshihiro Tajiri and Super Crazy - ***1/4
> ...


Yeah it's a great show, I think I refer ONS 2005 though, not sure.

Whoever said they are starting with No Mercy 2001, do it. It's one of the best non Mania's ever, easily.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I just ordered the new Edge DVD set from Silvervision. Why is the packaging all different? Like it's a clip open box rather than a thing you slide out and open up.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Top 10 Non-Mania's from what I have seen...

1) Money In The Bank 2011
2) Summerslam 2002
3) Vengeance 2005
4) Royal Rumble 2007
5) Unforgiven 2006
6) Armageddon 2006
7) Summerslam 2005
8) Survivor Series 2005
9) Backlash 2004
10) Royal Rumble 2000


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Im a big fan of making lists so I'd love to hear everyones WWE(F) top 10 all time fav non Wrestlemania PPVs.


In Chronological Order:

Money in the Bank 2011
SummerSlam 2009
No Way Out 2009
No Mercy 2008
Royal Rumble 2007
Unforgiven 2006
SummerSlam 2005
SummerSlam 2002
Unforgiven 1999
SummerSlam 1991

-MITB '11 is just about perfect. TWO great MITB matches, the first of which is one of the best, a surprisingly good big man match, a very good co main event with a shocking ending, and quite possibly the best wrestling match ever.

-SS '09 is just a blast. Mysterio/Ziggler is a super hot opener, you get a nice tag team match, Khali/Kane does it's job, DX/Legacy is a classic tag match, Orton/Cena is a wonderfully over-booked spectacle, and TLC is a great main event.

-NWO '09 has two legtimately great EC matches, a shocking turn of events between the first and last, an old-school fight between Orton/Shane, and a solid HBK/JBL match.

-No Mercy '08 is probably the most stacked "B" ppv ever. You get a surprisingly good Hardy/Henry opener, Mysterio/Kane is a lot of fun, UT/Big Show is probably one of the fastest 10-minute big man matches ever, and a legitimate double main event in HHH/Hardy and Y2J/HBK, two great world title main events, one after another.

-RR '07 is a classic for me. Hardys/MNM in another dream match (also a great opener), Batista/Kennedy is a nice little sleeper, Cena/Umaga is one of the best matches of 2007 (though there were a lot to choose from), and the 2007 RR is easily the best Royal Rumble match of all time, and that's _before_ UT and HBK are the last two.

-Unforgiven 2006: Nitro/Hardy for 17 minutes, Kane/Umaga solid big man brawl, DX/McMahons & Show is ridiculously entertaining, Trish Stratus' last major match against her greatest nemesis, a sleeper in Orton/Carlito, and MOTY in Edge/Cena.

-SummerSlam 2005: amazing that back in 2005, they could get so many great huge matches onto one show: The 25-second OJ/Benoit opener was a nice surprise, Eddie/Mysterio in an awesome ladder match, UT/Orton in a great rematch, Cena/Jericho in a nice little dream match, Batista/JBL is a under-rated brawl, and a classic dream match in Hogan/HBK.

-These are the matches from SummerSlam 2002: Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle, Ric Flair vs. Chris Jericho, Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero, Christian & Lance Storm vs. Booker T & Goldust, Chris Benoit vs. Rob Van Dam, Undertaker vs. Test, Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels, and The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar. Oh, and they're all good to great. So much amazing star-power and work-rate with the real aid of gimmicks.

-Unforgiven 1999 is pure attitude era crap, but I just seem to really enjoy it for some reason.

-Back in 1991, Mr. Perfect and Bret Hart had their first ppv match, Ted DiDibiase defending the million dollar belt against Virgil, The Big Boss Man faced The Mountie, The Legion of Doom fought The Nasty Boys, and the main event featured Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Sgt. Slaughter, and Sid Vicious. Is the work-rate top notch. Absolutely not, but in 1991, this card was STACKED. I saw this live and it's always been on of my favorites.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I can't do a top 10, rating an overall PPV is too hard for me. I'll do top 3 from each year:

*1999*
No Mercy (US)
Royal Rumble
Fully Loaded/Summerslam

*2000*
Backlash 
Fully Loaded
Summerslam

*2001*
No Way Out
Royal Rumble
No Mercy

*2002*
Summerslam
Survivor Series
No Mercy/Royal Rumble

*2003*
Vengeance
Survivor Series 
Summerslam

*2004*
Don't think I've seen anything from this year

*2005*
Vengeance
One Night Stand
Summerslam

*2006*
Unforgiven
One Night Stand
Armageddon 

*2007*
Backlash
Survivor Series
Armageddon 

2008, 2009, 20120 stopped watch wrestling from this point, haven't really bothered since

*2011*
Money in the Bank
??
??


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I wish in 2007 they still did Brand PPV's. I still think SD & Raw had strong enough rosters to put on good 'B' PPV shows. Especially considering the B PPV's were fantastic in 06.


----------



## James Curran (Jan 19, 2011)

*New DVD Update*

“The Greatest Street Fights and other Out of Control Matches“.​


> WWE DVD schedules have updated, showing the tagline for Falls Count Anywhere Matches is planned to be, “The Greatest Street Fights and other Out of Control Matches“.
> 
> It’s released on June 26th to the United States, and is to be produced on both DVD and Blu-ray formats. You can pre-order either version now over here.


(2-Disc Blu-ray)
($24.99)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*2000:* Backlash
*2001:* No Mercy
*2002:* Summerslam
*2003:* Vengeance
*2004:* Survivor Series
*2005:* Vengeance
*2006:* Unforgiven
*2007:* Royal Rumble
*2008:* No Mercy
*2009:* Summerslam/No Way Out
*2010:* Bragging Rights
*2011:* Money In The Bank


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

just saw randomly a promo for batista/undertaker at tlc 09 and wanted to know if that match comes close to their epic 07 series?

btw here the promo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlLeH2xS3Ls&feature=g-u-u&context=G2b46168FUAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I wouldn't say it's on the same level but that's not a bad thing because their matches in 07 were pretty amazing. It's still worth a watch, though, definitely recommended.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

The problem with the "Chairs" match from 2009 is that it is nowhere near as good as ANY of the matches UT/Batista had in 2007. They had, IMO, two legitimate MOTYC at WM 23 and Backlash, the cage match was solid enough to progress the storyline, the later rematches at Cyber Sunday and Survivor Series were good, and they even had a couple of good gems in 2008.

Their last match, unfortunately, is slow, kind of boring, burdened by a horrible gimmick, and has a stupid ending.

I'd recommend sticking with the 2007 story and calling it a day.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Batista/Undertaker from TLC is not on the level of their other classic matches, but its still worth a watch in my opinion. Its a bit slower, and you can tell that they are not giving it their all like before, but they still pull of their usual spots, and there are some pretty stiff chair shots. Overall, its probably somewhere between **3/4 to ***1/4 in my opinion.


----------



## gruntles65 (Jul 16, 2007)

Taker should just retire and put us out of our miseries. We need people to wrestle all year round not once a year


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

gruntles65 said:


> Taker should just retire and put us out of our miseries. We need people to wrestle all year round not once a year


but if the person doing one match a year has been getting the MOTN and in some people's opinion's MOTY for about three years now, than there is a problem. Either the new crop isn't just up to standard or he still has a lot to offer, even if it's once a year.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

The Bad Guy said:


> but if the person doing one match a year has been getting the MOTN and in some people's opinion's MOTY for about three years now, than there is a problem. Either the new crop isn't just up to standard or he still has a lot to offer, even if it's once a year.


Is that really that impresive? I love Undertaker, but plenty of Wrestlers could put on classic matches if you give them 30 minutes at Wrestlemania, and put them in the ring with Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Dont forget putting them in the storyline where it gets people emotionaly invested each year. Give Undertaker 10-15 minutes like the rest of the talent gets, and then I would love to see if he can still pull out a 5 star classic.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Sparta101 said:


> Is that really that impresive? I love Undertaker, but plenty of Wrestlers could put on classic matches if you give them 30 minutes at Wrestlemania, and put them in the ring with Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Dont forget putting them in the storyline where it gets people emotionaly invested each year. *Give Undertaker 10-15 minutes *like the rest of the talent gets, and then I would love to see if he can still pull out a 5 star classic.


He did it with Batista at Wrestlemania 23 .. Classic match but it wasn't a 5 star match
I have it at ****1/2.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Sparta101 said:


> Is that really that impresive? I love Undertaker, but plenty of Wrestlers could put on classic matches if you give them 30 minutes at Wrestlemania, and put them in the ring with Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Dont forget putting them in the storyline where it gets people emotionaly invested each year. Give Undertaker 10-15 minutes like the rest of the talent gets, and then I would love to see if he can still pull out a 5 star classic.


Plenty? I'd say a handful at best.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Word said:


> Plenty? I'd say a handful at best.


Ziggler
Daniel Bryan
Rey Mysterio
Sheamus
Chris Jericho
Jack Swagger
Christian
CM Punk
John Cena
Randy Orton
Brock Lesnar
kofi Kingston

All of these guys could put on a classic if they were fighting Triple H and Shawn Michaels in a 30 minute match at Wrestlemania with the most built up story on the ppv. 

Im not taking anything away from Taker, but just saying that some other guys could do the same thing if they were in his position.


And yes robertdeniro, Taker/Batista was a classic 15 minute match. I cant take anything away from that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao Kofi Kingston? That guy couldn't have had a classic with Ric Flair in the 80's.

And I honestly wouldn't include HHH in the whole "30 mins at WM to have a classic with". Guy has been mediocre for the majority of his career and has failed to deliver at WM with anyone but Undertaker and Cena.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The thing about having great matches that go that long is both guys need to be great together and if only when guy is great the other better be good at being led (i.e. Flair/Luger, Flair/Sting). Guys on the current roster that can pull off great 30 minutes or more - Taker (obviously), Cena, Punk, Bryan, Regal, and Triple H (from what we've seen with Taker at least). I think Mysterio, Jericho and Ziggler possibly could too.


----------



## peep4life (Jun 1, 2005)

KingCal said:


> :lmao Kofi Kingston? That guy couldn't have had a classic with Ric Flair in the 80's.
> 
> And I honestly wouldn't include HHH in the whole "30 mins at WM to have a classic with". Guy has been mediocre for the majority of his career and has failed to deliver at WM with anyone but *Undertaker and Cena*.


HBK and he who shall not be named say hi. Plus his match with Sheamus was solid as well, for the time it was given.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Totally forgot about the WM XX triple threat. Damn WWE! 

Sheamus match was solid, but nothing remotely special or memorable.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Sparta101 said:


> Ziggler
> Daniel Bryan
> Rey Mysterio
> Sheamus
> ...


Decent list but I would discount Ziggler, Kofi and Sheamus. Sheamus is a great worker but I haven't seen anything epic from him yet, from memory anyway.

I'd still only say a handful. Pick 10 for example, in a 60 strong roster. That's 16% of the roster, awful.

What Clique said about Chemisty is important. I mean look at Trips/Orton, they pushed that millions of times to work and it just never worked.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching Survivor Series 2001 for the first time in 10 years. I love this PPV. One of my all time favs. The main event is just killer good.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

I thought Batista vs. Triple H was very good when H got busted open. Then again it followed Cena/JBL so I guess it just looks good in comparison.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingCal said:


> And I honestly wouldn't include HHH in the whole "30 mins at WM to have a classic with". Guy has been mediocre for the majority of his career and has failed to deliver at WM with anyone but Undertaker and Cena.


Disagree about HHH being mediocre for the majority of his career. He was great in 2000-2001, 2004-2005 and 2008, like one of the best workers in the company kinda great. His earlier stuff is pretty solid. '06 and '07 were interrupted by injuries. It's only '02 and '03 that I would call bad HHH years, and even those years he had the occasional standout match.

As for failing to deliver at Mania, I don't really buy that either. Taker (x3), Cena, WM20 triple threat all met or exceeded expectations. WM24 triple threat, Sheamus, Booker and Owen are good (aren't you quite high on the match with Booker?) and Batista is solid, especially considering how green Batista was at the time. It's only the main events against Jericho and Orton that disappointed, and I wouldn't even call either of them bad.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*WWF - RAW 2/2/98*
Chainsaw Charlie vs Cactus Jack
***1/4

*WWF - No Way Out 1998*
Chainsaw Charlie, Cactus Jack, Steve Austin & Owen Hart vs HHH, Savio Vega and The New Age Outlaws 
***3/4

*WWF - Wrestlemania 14*
Chainsaw Charlie & Cactus Jack vs New Age Outlaws 
***1/2

*WWF RAW 20/4/98*
Terry Funk & Flash Funk vs New Midnight Express 
**3/4


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Ownage™ said:


> Disagree about HHH being mediocre for the majority of his career. He was great in 2000-2001, 2004-2005 and 2008, like one of the best workers in the company kinda great. His earlier stuff is pretty solid. '06 and '07 were interrupted by injuries. *It's only '02 and '03 that I would call bad HHH years, and even those years he had the occasional standout match.*
> 
> As for failing to deliver at Mania, I don't really buy that either. Taker (x3), Cena, WM20 triple threat all met or exceeded expectations. WM24 triple threat, Sheamus, Booker and Owen are good (aren't you quite high on the match with Booker?) and Batista is solid, especially considering how green Batista was at the time. It's only the main events against Jericho and Orton that disappointed, and I wouldn't even call either of them bad.


I agree. You also cant really blame Triple H for not having classic matches when he is in there fighting against Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Kane and so on.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

KingCal said:


> And I honestly wouldn't include HHH in the whole "30 mins at WM to have a classic with". Guy has been mediocre for the majority of his career and has failed to deliver at WM with anyone but Undertaker and Cena.


Michaels and Benoit?

edit: oh.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I loved Trips even in his attitude era days back in 97-99. He excelled in 2000 having one of the greatest superstar years in memory and was continuing in that form in 2001 till his injury. Returning in 2002 he slowly returned to form but never to his true best. 2003 onwards was pretty underwhelming apart from the odd match there and then simply because of the competition. People would often say burying, I wouldn't.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When I said "failed to deliver" at WM I mean that for a guy presented as one of the GOAT by WWE, he hasn't exactly had many classic matches at the event outside of the triple threat, Undertaker and Cena matches. And its the same for most of his career too imo. He was great from late 99-2001, then he returned in 2002 and was god awful for the most part in 02 and 03. 04 was a little better for him because he got to work Benoit, but even then he wasn't having matches that were that great. 05 he was great in terms of the program he worked with Batista (HIAC was a classic, WM was mediocre, Backlash was alright), and then the program with Flair (and I'd only really call their cage match great, not too fond of the LMS). From 06-now, honestly, aside from matches with Cena, Undertaker and Hardy, he didn't do that much in terms of good matches. Sure, during some of that time he worked with some shitty people, but who hasn't over their career? Even when he worked with great workers (HBK in this example) he still wasn't pulling out matches that I'd call great. He's the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE; likes to say he's the best, gets pushed as the best by the company, but in reality isn't that good.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

KingCal said:


> When I said "failed to deliver" at WM I mean that for a guy presented as one of the GOAT by WWE, he hasn't exactly had many classic matches at the event outside of the triple threat, Undertaker and Cena matches. *And its the same for most of his career too imo.* He was great from late 99-2001, then he returned in 2002 and was god awful for the most part in 02 and 03. 04 was a little better for him because he got to work Benoit, but even then he wasn't having matches that were that great. 05 he was great in terms of the program he worked with Batista (HIAC was a classic, WM was mediocre, Backlash was alright), and then the program with Flair (and I'd only really call their cage match great, not too fond of the LMS). From 06-now, honestly, aside from matches with Cena, Undertaker and Hardy, he didn't do that much in terms of good matches. Sure, during some of that time he worked with some shitty people, but who hasn't over their career? Even when he worked with great workers (HBK in this example) he still wasn't pulling out matches that I'd call great. He's the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE; likes to say he's the best, gets pushed as the best by the company, but in reality isn't that good.


You named a bunch in your description then, ha! I think I could list about 20 ****+ Trips matches, he's been the bollocks.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

There we go on Triple H again...

2002 was awful, except that SummerSlam night. 2003 was okay-ish, but he was injured for most parts despite being World Champion and the state of WWE in terms of the talent pool in Raw was really poor.

From that Michaels match in 2003, he was back to meaning business and that lasted until he cooled down with the DX parodies and all in 2006. After his return in 2007, I can name a handful matches that are good/great, excluding the two WrestleMania classics against Undertaker.

Triple H gets a lot of slack for his stuff in 2002/2003. Apart from that period, Triple H has always been an exceptional talent. Personally, with the exception of his run after the heel turn in 1999 and up until the injury in 2001, I prefer his 2002/2003 "reign of terror" over any part of his career. As a character and the whole the Evolution franchise, I enjoyed that part so much more than the stuff he did afterwards. Preference.

From a wrestling perspective, I think I could name 20 matches that are four stars and above. For me, that's only lesser than Michaels and probably Benoit in WWE. I'm not sure of Benoit.

When people talk of Triple H at WrestleMania, mostly they magnify his matches before the Undertaker match at X-Seven and the bombed main events against Jericho and Orton. Triple H doesn't have a catalog of matches resembling that of Shawn Michaels; the Undertaker lately, and Macho Man--if we consider the time and age of his wrestling peak and the difference in the quality of Savage's matches to other wrestlers' matches at that time. I don't think Hunter had a true WrestleMania classic until 'Mania XX. The Undertaker match at X-Seven was very good, but not a classic or anything. It's amazing to think that it was Undertaker's best match at WrestleMania until that point and probably his best non-gimmick match up until that point too. I consider his match against Booker T at XIX to be a very good match and his best until WrestleMania XIX. The 21 match against Batista wasn't good from a work-rate view, but I think it was a great spectacle and that's the best "put over" match in the main event in WrestleMania history. I consider it to be greater than XX and 22, as far as promoting a talent goes. The "meh" matches would be 24 and 26, although 24 was decent. X-8 and 25 absolutely flopped. If I had to rate his 'Mania matches after "the Game," it'd be:

*2000 ~ ** 3/4
X-Seven ~ *** 1/2
X-8 ~ *
XIX ~ *** 3/4
XX ~ *****
21 ~ ***
22 ~ **** 1/4
XXIV ~ *** 1/4
XXV ~ * 1/2 (around there; haven't watched it since then)
XXVI ~ ** 1/4
XXVII ~ *****
XXVIII ~ **** 3/4
*

I wouldn't call that underwhelming at all. In fact, that's incredible for the flack Triple H receives every morning. Shawn Michaels is Mr. WrestleMania, while the Undertaker has the Streak, which is considered bigger than the World Title. For somebody who doesn't have a special acronym at WrestleMania, I think it's all good.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Razor King said:


> There we go on Triple H again...


I think most main event or higly praised guys are going to get scrutinized from time to time because the pedestal I guess you can say they are put on by the company and the fans. Hey, you have to live with it for Triple H and I have to for Kurt Angle (I hope I didn't start something just by saying that name :argh.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingCal said:


> When I said "failed to deliver" at WM I mean that for a guy presented as one of the GOAT by WWE, he hasn't exactly had many classic matches at the event outside of the triple threat, Undertaker and Cena matches. And its the same for most of his career too imo. He was great from late 99-2001, then he returned in 2002 and was god awful for the most part in 02 and 03. 04 was a little better for him because he got to work Benoit, but even then he wasn't having matches that were that great. 05 he was great in terms of the program he worked with Batista (HIAC was a classic, WM was mediocre, Backlash was alright), and then the program with Flair (and I'd only really call their cage match great, not too fond of the LMS). From 06-now, honestly, aside from matches with Cena, Undertaker and Hardy, he didn't do that much in terms of good matches. Sure, during some of that time he worked with some shitty people, but who hasn't over their career? Even when he worked with great workers (HBK in this example) he still wasn't pulling out matches that I'd call great. He's the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE; likes to say he's the best, gets pushed as the best by the company, but in reality isn't that good.


I thought he was a legit great heel worker in 2004-2005. The triple threats with Benoit and Michaels are arguably the two best in company history, lots of good Evolution tags, great match with Shelton Benjamin, then he got more out of Eugene, Batista and Flair than anyone else had at that time. The DX shit took up a lot of 2006 then he got injured and since he came back he's been consistently good in my opinion. Finished '07 with good matches against Hardy, Flair and Umaga and a great LMS with Orton. Had an even better '08 with the big Cena and Hardy PPV matches and lots of good Smackdown TV matches against guys like Shelton, MVP and Taker. Even got something decent out of Khali that year at Summerslam. 2009 was a solid year for him as well and he hasn't been a full time worker since. I'd definitely say he has way more good than bad over his career.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

HHH may have had a crap 02 and 03 when it comes to match quality. But he really excelled during his promos and lhe carried Raw through a whole load of crap booking. Even in that time he pulled out at least 3 very very good matches - 
Booker @ .XIX
Michales @ SS02
Elimination Chamber SS

On a side note, does anyone have any ratings for - Ultimo Dragon vs. Jushin Liger (not sure which match but it was during a tournament with Benoit (and maybe Jericho) early 90s (93?)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

All this talk makes me want to get my hands on a compilation of Hunter's entire career.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Have Cal put one together for you. :side:


----------



## Rossyboy10 (Apr 20, 2012)

Could anyone recommend a good 1999 or 2000 PPV/any stand-out matches.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

Fully Loaded 2000

Jericho - HHH LMS (one of my favourtie matches by both men, and look it has HHH in  )

No Mercy 99 is really good as well
First ever tag team ladder match between Hardys and Edge and Christian and a good main event between HHH and Austin (look HHH again  )


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

Backlash 2000 is probably the best PPV of that era but you've probably seen it already.

So I recommend Fully Loaded 2000. Real fun PPV that has a good mixture of light hearted fun and quality matches.

1999...is difficult. SummerSlam '99 is a bunch of fun with a well rounded card but if you want B shows go Backlash or No Mercy (Us edition).

ThunderAngel is on the ball.


----------



## Rossyboy10 (Apr 20, 2012)

I haven't seen either Fully Loaded or Backlash 2000 nor Summerslam or No Mercy 1999. Only PPV's i have seen from 1999-2000 are Wrestlemania XV, No Mercy 1999 (UK), Royal Rumble 2000, Wrestlemania 2000 and Summerslam 2000.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Then watch Backlash 2000. One of the best PPV's of all time, I still maintain belief that it's what Wrestlemania SHOULD of been.


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

Mark. said:


> Selling the following books and DVDs:
> 
> 
> WWE Vengeance 2003
> ...


These will all be ending within 3 days. And if you're a fan of comics or just looking forward to The Dark Knight Rises, check this out: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130682271473?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH in 02-03, as mentioned was pretty bad. In 04 he was good, but nothing great. 05 was a little better than 04. This is taking ring and mic work into account by the way. Never thought he was as great a mic worker as people make him out. He's generally very good but in those years 90% of his promos legit put me to sleep, and even looking back on some of them I don't see what others see. Guess more power to others, but just to clarify I'm not calling him a bad mic worker by any means, but he just gets way to boring to listen to way too often for me personally to call him great.

As far as in ring work, 2000 he was exceptional. 2001 he was great as well. 2002 he was beyond terrible, 2003 he was just as bad if not worse, but 2004 he was alright again. First half of 2005 was the same as 04, but I'd say from when he returned in 05-when he reformed dx he was great again. 2008 I'd say was a very good year for him as an in ring worker as well.

As for WM, here's my ratings (starting with WM16):
16- ***1/2
17- ****
18- **3/4
19- ***1/2
20- ****1/2
21- **1/4
22- ***1/4
24- ***1/2
25- **
26- ***1/4
27- ***1/2
28- ****

So his WM resume isn't that impressive for me. However I'd say all (or most) his matches listed above for one reason or another are at least worth watching once.

I'm also sure I could name 20 ****+ HHH matches. I'll give it a shot (not including Mania matches listed above, and only singles matches):

vs. Foley RR00
vs. Foley NWO 00
vs. Rock Backlash 00
vs. Rock JD00
vs. Rock Summerslam 98
vs. Jericho FL00
vs. Benoit NM00
vs. Austin NWO01
vs. HBK Summerslam 02
vs. HBK Raw December 03
vs. Batista Vengeance 05
vs. Flair Taboo Tuesday 06
vs. Orton No Mercy 2007 LMS
vs. Cena Night of Champions 2008
vs. Jeff Hardy No Mercy 2008
vs. Cena before Bragging Rights (?) 09 (The one on Raw where HHH beat Cena)

... Off the top of my head for singles ****+ matches, that's all I can think of. With multiman matches added in these are included:

Elimination Chamber SS02
Elimination Chamber NYR05
SD EC 2009
vs. Benoit vs. HBK Backlash 04
vs. Cena vs. HBK SS09
vs. Edge vs. Cena Backlash 06

And there are more, but that makes 20+, so I'm good.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Can people think of twenty or more ****+ Chris Jericho matches? and while were at it what are your opinions of his in ring work throughout his WWE career?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

ThunderAngel said:


> Fully Loaded 2000
> 
> Jericho - HHH LMS (one of my favourtie matches by both men, and look it has HHH in  )
> 
> ...


(Y)

That Ladder Match was epic. Considering it was the first ever tag team ladder match it was amazing what they pulled off. Watching it back now won't seem as innovative because of the huge bumps they took after this (TLC I, II & III) but was a real gem.



jblvdx said:


> Can people think of twenty or more ****+ Chris Jericho matches? and while were at it what are your opinions of his in ring work throughout his WWE career?


Yeah, but only because of his return. He was always hovering around the mid card scene imo, never got a real consistent time at the top untill he returned.

He had a good series with Michaels & Mysterio whilst the Punk feud is building. Benoit & Edge are also worth a mention, and he had real good chemistry with the Rock & Trips. ( <<<< Trips!!!).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

jblvdx said:


> Can people think of twenty or more ****+ Chris Jericho matches? and while were at it what are your opinions of his in ring work throughout his WWE career?


Benoit Fall Brawl 96
Eddie Guerrero Fall Brawl 97
Benoit Judgment Day 00
HHH Fully Loaded 00
Benoit Royal Rumble 01
Benoit & Jericho/Powertrip Raw 01
Rock No Mercy 01
Jericho & Rock/Austin & Angle SD 01
Rock Royal Rumble 02
HBK WM19
Christian WM20
Christian Raw 04
HBK Judgment Day 08
HBK Unforgiven 08
HBK No Mercy 08
Mysterio Judgment Day 09
Mysterio Extreme Rules 09
Mysterio The Bash 09
Mysterio SD 7/10/09
CM Punk WM28


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Just popped in KoTR 2000. I know it isn't a 2000 classic but it's going to be a real fun show.

Btw watched a bunch of shoes from 2001 and they are all insanely good. Just backlash and judgement day to watch.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

My 20 Jericho matches **** and plus

Vs Triple H FL00
Vs Benoit RR01
With Benoit vs Austin/HHH RAW01
Fatal Four Way TLC SD01
Vs Austin vs Benoit KOTR01
Vs Rock NM01
WWF vs Alliance - SS01
Elimination Chamber SS02
Vs Shawn Michaels - WMXIX
Vs Shawn Michaels - RAW03
Vs Christian - WMXX
Vs Christian - UGN04
Money in the Bank - WM21
Vs Shawn Michaels - JD08
Vs Shawn Michaels - GAB08
Vs Shawn Michaels - UGN08
Vs Rey Mysterio. - Bash09
With Big Show vs DX - TLC09
Vs Edge - WM26
Vs CM Punk - WM28

Edit: I forgot: 
vs Triple H HIAC - JD02 - see Trips is here again
Vs Benoit - Super J Cup

(Can't remember the Fall Brawl with Eddy but I assume it would be in this list too


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I picked up The Rock Just Bring It on DVD today. Stopped by my local used music and movie store and found it for $3.99. Couldnt say no. It has the match where Rock wins the title from Angle in 2001.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Clique said:


> I think most main event or higly praised guys are going to get scrutinized from time to time because the pedestal I guess you can say they are put on by the company and the fans. Hey, you have to live with it for Triple H and I have to for Kurt Angle (I hope I didn't start something just by saying that name :argh.


Yeah, but I think both of those guys have issues anyway that brings them to scrutiny. (Angle with Olympic medal & HHH with his backstage connections to the front office). That said the man in your sig doesn't live up to much of that same scrutiny.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Clique said:


> I think most main event or higly praised guys are going to get scrutinized from time to time because the pedestal I guess you can say they are put on by the company and the fans. Hey, you have to live with it for Triple H and I have to for Kurt Angle (I hope I didn't start something just by saying that name :argh.


I actually loved Kurt Angle during 2000/2001. He was pretty fine in 2002/2003 as well. But since 2004, he completely flipped and I found him unbearable at times. Still, I can name a handful matches of Angle that are amongst the best matches of all time.

From what I read these days, he seems to be a psycho case now.


----------



## kendalag (Jan 13, 2005)

From what I've seen and heard over recent years, Angle is still great, just as you mention a little nuts it seems. He would be a huge plus for one more run in WWE as he could still have top flight matches with the top guys like Punk, Cena & Bryan. 

In terms of **** Jericho matches, I'd also mention vs. Rock @ Vengeance (****1/4) and vs. Rob Van Dam @ Unforgiven 2001 (****) ... also, I remember Jericho-Benoit from Summer Slam 2000 being around ****

In terms of WWE DVD's ... found some great deals @ Walmart recently ... 2 Packs for $10 each ... Ricky Steamboat 3 Disc/Rise & Fall of WCW 3 Disc (finally I have Chi Town Rumble Flair/Steamboat on DVD to go along with WrestleWar & Clash) , Triple H - King of Kings/WrestleMania 20 & Highest Flyers/The Bash 09 (with that great Jericho/Rey Jr match)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I saw Kurt Angle's ECW appearance in 1996. He looked like such a sane young man, like a completely different human being to the loon who's getting arrested for DUI.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

kendalag said:


> In terms of WWE DVD's ... found some great deals @ Walmart recently ... 2 Packs for $10 each ... Ricky Steamboat 3 Disc/Rise & Fall of WCW 3 Disc (finally I have Chi Town Rumble Flair/Steamboat on DVD to go along with WrestleWar & Clash) , Triple H - King of Kings/WrestleMania 20 & Highest Flyers/The Bash 09 (with that great Jericho/Rey Jr match)


Wow thats impressive and cheap. I Can't get enough of the Flair/Steamboat matches of 89. The doc on the WCW dvd is really good. I'm hoping for a Starrcade boxset down the road. 

I don't live far from you and our walmarts don't have much. Usually the new(er) ones released. I was there a few days ago and they had Rumble 2012, the new Rock set (which I have) and the new Edge set.


----------



## heyman deciple (Dec 23, 2006)

kendalag said:


> From what I've seen and heard over recent years, Angle is still great, just as you mention a little nuts it seems. He would be a huge plus for one more run in WWE as he could still have top flight matches with the top guys like Punk, Cena & Bryan.
> 
> In terms of **** Jericho matches, I'd also mention vs. Rock @ Vengeance (****1/4) and vs. Rob Van Dam @ Unforgiven 2001 (****) ... also, I remember Jericho-Benoit from Summer Slam 2000 being around ****
> 
> In terms of WWE DVD's ... found some great deals @ Walmart recently ... 2 Packs for $10 each ... Ricky Steamboat 3 Disc/Rise & Fall of WCW 3 Disc (finally I have Chi Town Rumble Flair/Steamboat on DVD to go along with WrestleWar & Clash) , Triple H - King of Kings/WrestleMania 20 & Highest Flyers/The Bash 09 (with that great Jericho/Rey Jr match)


FUCK ME!

Why must I live in the one part of Massachusetts where there's no Walmart anywhere near me.

Oh I got a target, which doesn't sell wrestling DVD's unless it features The Rock.

And I have a BestBuy which just shrunk their WWE shelf space to fit more fitness DVD's. Really who the fuck buys fitness DVD's?

FUCK MY LIFE!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

You can get some good deals on walmart.com they have just about all of the wwe dvds at good prices.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Top Jericho matches:

vs HBK - Wrestlemania 19
vs The Rock - No Mercy 2001
w/Benoit vs Austin & HHH - Raw, May 2001
vs Benoit - Royal Rumble 2001
vs Benoit - Summerslam 2000
vs Christian - Wrestlemania 20
vs Punk - Wrestlemania 28
vs Benoit - Raw in Japan, 2005
vs Rey Mysterio - The Bash 2009
vs Rey Mysterio - Extreme Rules 2009
vs HBK - No Mercy 2008
vs Evan Bourne - Fatal 4 Way 2010 & the Raw after that
vs Kane - Armageddon 2000

Elimination Tag - Survivor Series 2001
Elimination Chamber - Survivor Series 2002
Elimination Chamber - New Year's Revolution 2005
Money in the Bank I


----------



## kendalag (Jan 13, 2005)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I don't live far from you and our walmarts don't have much. Usually the new(er) ones released. I was there a few days ago and they had Rumble 2012, the new Rock set (which I have) and the new Edge set.


Well, these two packs ... there was like 20 of them, but most I already owned ... included combos with a wrestler bio dvd or pay per view, with a Wrestlemania. You could get up to WM 18-26 in a combo pack for 10 bucks. Other nice choices were Shawn Michaels - My Life Journey with Best of Saturday Night Main Event ... and Best of Macho Man & WrestleMania 3. 

However, its a WrestleMania endcap promotion, so will be going away. Usually they carry all the new release WWE DVD and a handful of others from time to time.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WWE WrestleMania 21*

Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***1/4

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*: Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Edge vs. Kane vs. Christian vs. Shelton Benjamin - ****

The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton - ***1/2

*Women's Championship*: Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme - *1/2

Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle - ****

*Sumo Match*: Big Show vs. Akebono - DUD

*WWE Championship*: JBL vs. John Cena - **1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship*: Triple H vs. Batista - ***1/4


I remember the first time I watched this show live back in 2005. I had disliked WWE from the 2004-2005 season (WM XX - WM 21), and wasn't really looking forward to it.

It didn't help that I had gotten the flu and couldn't invite my friends over because I didn't want to get them sick, so I ended up watching WrestleMania 21 by myself.

All my concerns were to put to rest pretty much as soon as the show began.

Guerrero/Mysterio is not their best match and one of the two lesser ones (the other being the cage match), but it's still got some very innovative stuff, feels special, and gets enough time. The mask stuff didn't bother me because I think it was edited a lot on the DVD, but this one of the better recent openers for a WM.

I have a newfound appreciation for MITB. For a ladder match to still be good after 7 years is amazing, considering that they're usually topped by the next one is amazing. On paper, the level of talent is amazing. FOUR Canadian work-horses, Shelton Benjamin, and Kane. The match is nonstop excitement, not a mindless goofy spotfest, everyone shines, and it's genuinely suspensful. Benoit was either legitimately injured, or that's some of the best selling ever. So many classic moments in this one.

UT/Orton is a BLAST. Even more amazing is that apparentely both were injured at the time. Orton looked like a star on the rise, the action was great, and the chokeslam into the RKO was a classic, one of the most suspensful moments in WWE history. UT winning was a great feel good moment. At the time, I really thought Orton might win. This match is so much fun, and the show is three for three.

The segment involving Eugene, Muhammad Hassan, Daivari, and Hulk Hogan is not a classic, but the biggest I ever marked out. I had gotten back into wrestling in late 2003, just as Hogan was leaving, and didn't expect him to return. The segment itself started so well. Eugene was hilarious, and his response to Hassan was classic. Hassan: "Do you know why I'm out here?" Eugene: "You don't like midgets?"

Hogan returning was a great feel good moment to me, awesome to see him at WM twenty years later, and just a great segment, one of my favorites of all time. THIS is how you do a segment on PPV.

Trish/Hemme is awful, yes, but Trish is a great heel nonetheless. The one thing I like about this match is how pretty much pulls the winning kick out of nowhere, as if to say "enough of this shit." She was a little surprised by Hemme at first, but overall the veteran was just too good to beat.

Back in 2005, Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle was THE dream match for me. Angle was my favorite wrestler, HBK was another one of my favorites, and the fact that these two had never had a one-on-one match before was so intriuging, especially given that it had the potential to be a classic.

And to me, back in 2005, it was a classic. Even up until maybe 2008 or so I thought it was a classic, at LEAST ****1/4

But for some reason, I just didn;t LOVE it like I used to. Even when it started, the sight of Michaels and Angle in the ring at the same time didn't give me chills, like so many dream matches still do. I think part of the problem is that, for me, I've seen Angle become less and less important in TNA, and while I realize he was huge in 2005, he's probably the only '95-on HBK WM opponent whose stock has lowered for me. In TNA, he's just another name, his matches are really all the same, and I just don't care for him anymore.

I also think the action hasn't aged terribly well. I still love the 3-act structure: HBK outwrestling Angle because Angle wasn't expecting it, Angle taking control in the middle, and the big table spot leading to the big finish. This is still a very good match, but having felt more emotionally attached to the triple-threat at XX, the INSANE action of the UT match at XXV, this just didn't hit me the same way it used to, which is kind of upsetting.

Still, a very good match, very nicely paced and full of great action, just not the classic it used to be. Anyone else encounter something like that?

The sumo match was a dud, plain and simple.

I didn't care about Piper's Pit back in '05 just because I didn't have the same appreciation for Piper that I do today. By that point in the show, I was pooped. Four great matches and one great segment was almost too much for me. But watching it today, I realize it's a dream segment. The biggest rebel character of the 1980s verbally jousting against the biggest rebel of the 1990s, in a classic segment format in the 2000s. The slaps were classic, the discussion was never boring, and I loved Carlito interrupting. Awesome segment, Piper vs. Austin was another dream "match" here.

JBL/Cena is well, a mixed bag. On one hand, it is historic for being the the first WWE Title win for John Cena, and the official "arrival" of the biggest wrestling star since Stone Cold.

However, the match is incredibly weak. It's not BAD, it's just sooooo mediocre. It could have been the second match on an episode of RAW in October. There is nothing special about it. This match is 11 1/2 minutes long. For 11 minutes, JBL dominates Cena. For 30 seconds, Cena makes a comeback and wins. The comeback is so blatant, so out of nowhere, it's ridiculous. This was the SECOND SuperCena WM, an unfortunate formula began at XX, that just feels anticlimactic.

The lonest reigning WWE champion in years, one of the most hated men in wrestling being, one of the biggest up-and-comers in the business, this match should have been tremendous for being not only the end of JBL's epic, epic reign, but for Cena winning his first WWE Title. This should have had the same feel as HHH/Goldberg at Unforgiven. It doesn't. But historically speaking, it's important. And think about this: imagine how bad it would come off if JBL _won_?

IMO, HHH/Batista had the greatest buildup for a WM EVER. They spent six months building up Batista's face turn, HHH becoming more and more paranoid, it all unfolded week by week, so carefully, so deliberately, but also logically. They made us want to see it so badly. By the time Batista powerbombed HHH, I just about screamed, not because I was surpised, but because I had wanted to see it for so long.

The match itself does what it needed to. The problem is that less than a year before was one of the greatest WM main events ever. The jump in quality is noticeable. But WWE was moving in a different direction. It gets a little quiet in the middle, but I love HHH trying to match Batista's power, HHH getting busted open and realizing he may have bitten off more than he could chew, the belt shot, and the counter from the pedigree into the bb. The theatricality of Batista countering the pedigree is perfect, too, showing just how strong he is.

The best moment comes after the match, when, uncharacteristically, the face victor gloats. He stands over HHH holding the title as if to say "look who did this this to you...your own guy," and it helped establish more than just another title change, it helped to show that Batista was the new force of the WWE.


All in all, this is one of my favorite WMs ever, up there with X7, XIX, and XXIV. As many critics have pointed out, the show is the opposite of XX in that the undercard is stacked but the world title matches are lacking in work-rate and feel somewhat anticlimactic, unlike WM XX which was crap in the middle, and then capped off with two great title matches.

I prefer this show to XX, though. It's much tighter, more colorful, more entertaining, faster paced, and I agree that it gets a little shaky at the end (the Sumo match, JBL/Cena), but it still ends in historic significance and with a pretty solid main event. I could see why WWE began the formula of only having 8 matches or show per WM. Great show.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Watched the new documentary earlier today. I think it was a fantastic documentary which covered his whole career. Lot's of interesting information and a nice variety of talking heads. Worth a watch especially for big Edge fans.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

My Mania 21 ratings are a bit different to yours.

Eddie/Rey - ***1/2
MITB - ****1/2
Taker/Orton - ***3/4
Angle/Michaels - ****3/4 (this needs a rewatch as decent people on here keep telling me it's massively flawed)
Cena/JBL - *1/4 (does it even warrant this? Pile of shit)
Trips/Batista - ***

Btw, I watched KOTR 2000 last night, it's not only one of the worst PPV of 2000 but one of the worst PPV I've ever seen.


----------



## kendalag (Jan 13, 2005)

WrestleMania 21 is a solid ppv, but the last hour isn't the greatest ... it's like a lot of WCW PPV from the late 90's. 

Guerrero vs. Mysterio ***1/4 (the match I saw live at Judgment Day a month later was closer to ****) so this was a slight let down. Blame it on that dumb mask Rey wore. 

MITB ****1/2 The best MITB, it seemed they became progressively worse as it went on, mixing in more and more mid carder wrestlers who weren't going to be able to excel as well in this setting ... however, the MITB matches at MITB last year were very good. 

Orton vs. Undertaker ***1/2 ... good match, but would be even better if they wrestled today. 

Trish vs. Christy * not good, at least the following year we got the very good James - Stratus match

Angle vs. Michaels ****1/2 GREAT match, but not perfect, in part due to the absurdity of the ankle lock. Michaels simply refused to tap for WAY too long. It became ridiculous. Still tremendous IMO. 

Sumo Match - DUD ... what a joke

Cena vs. JBL *1/2 Again, I saw them tear the house down in an I Quit Match at Judgment Day (****1/4) this is NOTHING like that. 

Triple H vs. Batista **3/4 Decent match, but I remember the crowd not being tremendously loud during it. I don't know if they were burned out, or simply thought the result was too obvious to really get into. They had way better matches later as well, especially at Vengeance in Hell in a Cell.

..............................
And yes, King of the Ring 2000 was deplorable. They wasted Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho in favor of Rikishi vs. Kurt Angle. And then we had that main event (wasn't it like Taker, Kane & Rock vs. McMahons & HHH) UGH. It's the one pay per view from 2000 that was simply terrible ... well, actually I remember Survivor Series being terrible as well. Anyway, it was really sad coming after Backlash & Judgment Day, at least they rebounded with Fully Loaded leading to Summer Slam.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

kendalag said:


> Well, these two packs ... there was like 20 of them, but most I already owned ... included combos with a wrestler bio dvd or pay per view, with a Wrestlemania. You could get up to WM 18-26 in a combo pack for 10 bucks. Other nice choices were Shawn Michaels - My Life Journey with Best of Saturday Night Main Event ... and Best of Macho Man & WrestleMania 3.
> 
> However, its a WrestleMania endcap promotion, so will be going away. Usually they carry all the new release WWE DVD and a handful of others from time to time.


Wow thats awesome. The Best of SNME is so much fun to watch. I'm in the crowd at two of the matches on that set. Woot woot!


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I bought the Edge set, like the day it came out. Hope to watch that & the new Rock set soon. (Own both, have yet to watch either.)

That said, saw an ad for Edge's during "SD". Told a relative (not a wrestling fan) it kills me the ad mentions the HOF, which I know is not on the DVD.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM21 Ratings

Eddie/Rey - ***1/2
MITB - ****1/4
Taker/Orton - ****1/4
Hemme/Stratus- *1/4
Angle/Michaels - ****1/2
Cena/JBL - *
Trips/Batista - **1/4

Best MITB match, best Taker WM match to that point in time and a classic in it's own right, and a classic HBK/Angle MOTN. Cena/JBL was awful and Batista/HHH was a piss poor WM Main Event, though would be a decent enough Raw match. All in all just watch everything except the title matches (including the Women's) and you'd swear this was the best WM of all time match quality wise.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm still amazed at how awesome HHH/Batista and JBL/Cena turned out to be once they added gimmick matches to their feuds. It was a world of difference from the WM21 main events and they created two MOTYCs that are defining matches in Cena and Batista's careers imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WM 21

Eddie/Rey - ***1/2
MITB - ****3/4
Orton/Taker - ****1/4
Trish/Christy - Can't remember but I think it wasn't complete crap
Angle/HBK - ****1/2
Cena/JBL - *
Trips/Batista - **1/2


----------



## Certified G (Feb 1, 2011)

Just watched the first disc of "The Best Of WCW Nitro". I thought it was a pretty good disc, the Pillman vs Liger match was one of the better matches on the dvd. No mention of Benoit, though you can see him at various times, and a "Benoit Rules" sign is blurred out.

I understand it's a best of Nitro dvd but a small clip of Hogan's heel turn would've been nice. A good dvd nontheless and I look forward to watching the remaining 2 discs.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Backlash 2003

Lesnar vs. Cena - ***1/4

This was a really intriguing match up if we compared it to today. Cena proved how good a worker he was even back in 2003 despite his wrestling skills were lacking but still improving. He came in as the heel in this matchup and actually generated cheers through the match and chant's 'lets go Cena' from the fans today that would shout 'fuck you Cena'. Lesnar in a way portrayed the character as Cena would today, get dominated for 10 minutes and fight back for the win and fans were actually booing Lesnar at one point because of this, thought that was interesting. 

I enjoyed Cena here probably more than I do today because his workrate excels with him being the underdog and he shows more offensive skill set than he does today. He isn't the one getting beat up, he's the one beating up. I suppose it's just a breath of fresh air really.

Good stuff, be interesting to see where they go a week Sunday.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

WM 21 - ThunderAngel

Eddie/Rey - ***3/4
MITB - ****1/2
Orton/Taker - ****1/4
Trish/Christy - *1/4 (as Trish was so hot) 
Angle/HBK - ****
Cena/JBL - ** (average, such an average match)
Trips/Batista - ***
_________________

Little Idea I thought of: triple threat match between 3 decades, one for star power and the other for match quality. You can't have the same man in the same match so no hbk vs hbk vs hbk. . 

Ricky Steamboat (84) vs Bret Hart (97) vs Chris Benoit (03)

Hulk Hogan (87) vs Steve Austin (99) vs John Cena (10)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 21

Eddie/Rey - *
MITB - ****1/2
Orton/Taker - ****1/4
Trish/Christy - DUD
Angle/HBK - ****1/4
SUMO - DUD
Cena/JBL - DUD
Trips/Batista - **1/2


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Thoughts on the HBK/Angle rematch at Vengeance?

It really hasn't held up too well. I think my childhood love for HBK and his matches is finally starting to go. This wasn't an all-out finisherfest but it did have some timing issues with the use of Angle Slams/Superkicks. Decent match that I used to think was great. *****


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I just... don't like it. Which is a disappointment considering their name value, I sat down in front of it and their previous Wrestlemania match expecting them both to easily get into my top favourites of all time. I only watched the Wrestlemania one as part of the entire show, but the Vengeance one was on the Shawn box set so I sat down, watched it. I didn't really think much of it but couldn't figure out why, so I guessed I must have been tired and watched it again on its own when I bought Vengeance. Still, nothing.

It's odd, because usually in matches I can pinpoint what I don't particularly like. Oh it's the pace here, or the lack of selling there. But both of these matches I just think little of and don't particularly know why. Not bad matches at all, just underwhelming considering their names.

HBK is still one of my favourites though, I haven't quite lost that fascination with him yet. vs Jericho at Wrestlemania XIX is one of my favourite matches, and I remember loving vs Edge at RR05. Should probably rewatch it.

Speaking of Edge, I just ordered his DVD. squee


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

John Cena vs. Randy Orton, I Quit Match, Breaking Point 09

I think this is one of my favorite Orton matches just for the performance he puts on. I love watching him slip further and further into madness lol. It's a great match up until the end of course which pisses me off every time I watch it. I'm a Cena fan but holy fuck does this piss me off when he wins matches, especially I Quit matches, like this. I love this match mostly for Orton. Really brutal. Those shots to Cena while he's cuffed to the post were sick. When you ignore the ending lol, it's one of the better matches in the Cena/Orton series imo.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Judgment Day 2003

Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show (Stretcher Match) - ***

This was a pretty decent brawl between these two men. It's was nothing exceptional or mind blowing but felt very 'attitude era' which would appeal to a lot of people on here. The involvement of Rey I suppose was necessary as to bide time for Brock to bring in the forklift although I would have been happy not to see him at all. The ending was pretty cool as Brock was built up as the underdog as how was he going to knockdown and carry out his 7ft monster? 

Good stuff, worth a watch if your bored, wouldn't go out of my way and see though.


----------



## kendalag (Jan 13, 2005)

Word said:


> Judgment Day 2003
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show (Stretcher Match) - ***
> 
> ...


The first 10 minutes are nothing extraordinary, but the last 3 minutes are pretty great. Lesnar & Big Show had this odd chemistry because Lesnar was strong enough to throw him around the ring. Their matches at Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Judgment Day, and Smackdown (ring break) are all better than you would expect. 

In terms of HBK-Angle @ Vengeance, yes it's a let down after their WrestleMania 21 match. I'd still peg it at ***1/2-****, but it's not a match I want to re-watch. Their 30 minute iron man match from Raw was better, at least I remember it as being better, but I haven't seen that match in years.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On last watch I still thought Vengeance match was better than WM match lol. I'll be re-watching it soon though. ATM I'd rank them like this:

Vengeance > WM > Raw Iron Man (good, nothing great) > Raw 06 (horrible, HORRIBLE match).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Word said:


> Backlash 2003
> 
> Lesnar vs. Cena - ***1/4
> 
> ...


I really didn't enjoy this match whatsoever. I wouldn't have minded it on Smackdown or whatever but it just lacked something and I really didn't know what. I can remember being underwhelmed watching it the first time and when I watched it a few days back it still didn't live up. I don't regret watching it so to speak, I just won't watch it again, at least not for a good while. I expect tonight's match to be so much frickin' better, I hope it is anyway.

**3/4



ThunderAngel said:


> WM 21 - ThunderAngel
> 
> Eddie/Rey - ***3/4
> MITB - ****1/2
> ...


Eddie/Rey - ***1/2
MITB - ****1/4
Orton/Taker - ****1/4
Trish/Christy - Didn't watch
Angle/HBK - ***1/4
Cena/JBL - **1/4 (half of which is just because of the actual moment it's self)
Batista/HHH - ***

Ricky Steamboat (84) vs. Shawn Michaels (96/97) vs. Chris Benoit (06)

I'd do the same as you for the second one, as well.



Cactus said:


> Thoughts on the HBK/Angle rematch at Vengeance?
> 
> It really hasn't held up too well. I think my childhood love for HBK and his matches is finally starting to go. This wasn't an all-out finisherfest but it did have some timing issues with the use of Angle Slams/Superkicks. Decent match that I used to think was great. *****


I think I preferred this to their WM match but it certainly wasn't what it could have been. I agree with the timing issues, really threw the match off balance and really hindered it. ***1/2



Starbuck said:


> John Cena vs. Randy Orton, I Quit Match, Breaking Point 09
> 
> I think this is one of my favorite Orton matches just for the performance he puts on. I love watching him slip further and further into madness lol. It's a great match up until the end of course which pisses me off every time I watch it. I'm a Cena fan but holy fuck does this piss me off when he wins matches, especially I Quit matches, like this. I love this match mostly for Orton. Really brutal. Those shots to Cena while he's cuffed to the post were sick. When you ignore the ending lol, it's one of the better matches in the Cena/Orton series imo.


One of Orton's best matches in terms of performance, IMO. I despise the ending as well but the match its self is well worth the watch just to witness how awesome Randy CAN be, especially his performance and portrayal of his character within a match - he really is one of the best in incorporating his character in to his matches, especially as a heel, even if the matches themselves aren't amazing. Another example would be Orton/Shane at NWO of the same year.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Flair 89, Bret Hart 94, Angle 2003, Bryan 2012 (submission elimination match)

Savage 88, Sting 91, Punk 2011

Austin 98, Rock 2000, HHH 2010

Steamboat 89, Jericho 99, Edge 2006

Funk 89, Piper 90, Foley 2000 (No DQ)


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I really didn't enjoy this match whatsoever. I wouldn't have minded it on Smackdown or whatever but it just lacked something and I really didn't know what. I can remember being underwhelmed watching it the first time and when I watched it a few days back it still didn't live up. I don't regret watching it so to speak, I just won't watch it again, at least not for a good while. I expect tonight's match to be so much frickin' better, I hope it is anyway.
> 
> **3/4


I wouldn't have anyone go out of their way to see it. Their match is next week not tonight btw.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Word said:


> I wouldn't have anyone go out of their way to see it. *Their match is next week not tonight btw.*


What the fuck am I doing with my life fpalm


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> What the fuck am I doing with my life fpalm


Spending too much time on a wrestling forum


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

Less than a day left on these!


WWE Vengeance 2003
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681830211?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

ROH Glory By Honor VIII: The Final Countdown
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681834864?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

WWE Unforgiven 2003
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681838270?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

WWE Armageddon 2005
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681840453?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


*Autobiographies*

Dynamite Kid
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681845359?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Shawn Michaels
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681848453?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Chris Jericho (pre-WWE)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130681850848?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Batman Knightfall: Parts 1, 2 & 3 - Graphic Novels
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130682271473?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

After being disappointed during my re-watch of their Vengeance match, I decided to watch the rest of the series and I was pleasantly surprised by this gem. It features a minimal amount of problems you would find in a typical HBK or Angle match. Michaels doesn't no-sell his opponents work during his comebacks (He alters his kip-up and SCM antics to focus on his damaged ankle) and Angle doesn't spam the Olympic Slams. (I want to attack him for the two of them he did before the first fall; one on the outside and one from the top rope, but they just felt... right). ******


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Summerslam 2003

Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - ****

Nothing on their WM XIX match for me. Still a fantastic match up between these two who work so well together. Lesnar is having a pretty good 2003 from the matches I have watched so far. Not going into detail with this one, just watched it for pure enjoyment.

EDIT:

Survivor Series 2003

Team Angle vs Team Lesnar - ***1/4

Poor booking here or I might be massively missing something. Cena and Benoit are left standing by beating Big Show. However Lesnar taps (again) and Angle is pinned 3/4 the way through. At times it felt all over the place and seemed overbooked with random brawls in the ring. Was enjoyable, especially for an opener, did the trick, Cena continues to build in 2003.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Word said:


> Survivor Series 2003
> 
> Team Angle vs Team Lesnar - ***1/4
> 
> Poor booking here or I might be massively missing something. Cena and Benoit are left standing by beating Big Show. However Lesnar taps (again) and Angle is pinned 3/4 the way through. At times it felt all over the place and seemed overbooked with random brawls in the ring. Was enjoyable, especially for an opener, did the trick, Cena continues to build in 2003.


I find myself disappointed by a great many Survivor Series PPVs upon re-watch. Admittedly, I own a few on DVD (the one w/the Shane-Kane match, Bischoff-Austin, etc.), but that is largely because on DVD, you can watch the matches you want & skip the rest.

Offhand, believe I've said it here before, but I think my fave SS match might be the one with DX teaming with Punk. (HHH giving Punk the mic, HBK not knowing who he beat, posing with Melian, are all good. I could do w/o the Spirit Sqaud & the old guys.)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Mark. said:


> Less than a day left on these!
> 
> 
> WWE Vengeance 2003
> ...


So I guess you could say it's the Final Countdown. Daaa naaaa naaaa naaaa Daaa naaaaa naaaa naaa naaa!


----------



## doinktheclowns (Feb 27, 2011)

Can you recommend any DVD's from 1990 - 1995 WWE/WCW preferably generalized although can be about individual stars.
PM me as I think responses will probably be lost in this massive thread.

Thanks


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Finally got my hands on a copy of In Your House 13. Watching HHH V Rocky for the IC belt. Talk about a push Rock made his debut and less than 3 months later was IC champ. Both are very green in the ring but you can tell that IT factor is there with both of them. JR and King keep fighting like an old married couple. Good times.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Finally got my hands on a copy of In Your House 13. Watching HHH V Rocky for the IC belt. Talk about a push Rock made his debut and less than 3 months later was IC champ. Both are very green in the ring but you can tell that IT factor is there with both of them. JR and King keep fighting like an old married couple. Good times.


A lot of stiff hits in that match. Apparently around the time where Triple H and The Rock had legit beef in real life I believe?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> A lot of stiff hits in that match. Apparently around the time where Triple H and The Rock had legit beef in real life I believe?


Yeah very stiff. Rock totally botched a DDT. I think this was the the first time we saw Chyna in the WWF.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Since everyone is doing it, here is my WM 21 ratings.

Wrestlemania 21

1. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
2. Money in the bank ladder match - ****
3. Undertaker vs Randy Orton - ***3/4
4. Trish vs Hemme - DUD
5. Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
6. Sumo match - DUD
7. JBL vs John Cena - DUD
8. Batista vs Triple H - ***1/4

Would anyone else on here like to see Lesnar/Batista happen at one point?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

FACT: Tomorrow will be a 3-hour show with less quality than most of their 2-hour programs.

PREDICTION: They will concentrate on the contract signing... Like it matters. We all know they have a ton of PPV matches without a public signing, & most of the public signings go (unscripted) badly. In fact, it would be a nice surprise to have one go well on TV, but that would leave them far too much time left in the show to fill with wastes like Tensai & Clay's dancing.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane - Disc 2

*Chain Match for the IC Title*: Triple H vs. Kane - ***

Kane vs. Kurt Angle - ***

*World Heavyweight Title*: Triple H vs. Kane - ***1/4

Rob Van Dam & Kane vs. Chris Jericho & Christian - **1/2

*Steel Cage Match*: Rob Van Dam vs. Kane - **3/4

*Last Man Standing Match*: Shane McMahon vs. Kane - ***1/4

*Ambulance Match*: Shane McMahon vs. Kane - ***3/4

Matt Hardy vs. Kane - **3/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*The Rock vs. Triple H (60 Minute Iron Man Match) w/Shawn Michaels as the Special Guest Referee - Judgment Day 2000*

Both men stepped it up big time for this match and their feud in general in 2000. What I like most about this match is that it is never boring during the 60 minutes wrestled. They obviously paced themselves well but what I found brilliant is that this match had everything! They had the wrestling holds on the mat, brawling, blood, table spots and loads of falls compared to the 1st Ironman.

The Rock almost expertly attacked Hunter’s legs which is also great psychology to pull the man’s wheels from under him especially when he knows he must wrestle THE HOUR. Triple H countered back by working over The Rock’s shoulder. 

They had brawling all on the stage, in the crowd and around the ring. They even had Shawn Michaels as the special ref with those tight-ass, stuffed shorts (why Shawn?). One of my favorite moments in the match is when Triple H is trying to force the Rock’s shoulders to the mat with the Roman knuckle lock but The Rock (while struggling) continues to fight up. I just that that was a strong image because sold the story of the will to win and to fight for as long as humanly possible no matter how tired you may be you have to keep fighting. It is small moments like that put the match over more for me.

The Ironman gimmick which I think happens in most of these match is the heel gets the big advantage and the face must chase him and the clock in the last leg of the match. The formula makes the most sense because normal matches usually work that way also without the gimmick of course. I didn’t have a problem with there being so many falls either because each fall made sense. Two of the falls were a count out and a DQ anyways. 

The Faction/Regime/DX’s interference at the end was expected and so was Undertaker’s return (Well sort of. Some people at the time thought it could be Kane). But we got the Deadman, excuse me, we got the American Badass! I watched this match with my family when it happened and we were screaming like crazy when Taker returned and kicked everybody’s ass!

Trips gets the title back after a controversial decision from the official (of course). Trips and Rocky continue the hot potato game with the WWE Title for another month. This is one of the most thrilling one hour matches ever.

btw, Shawn has a solid history of refereeing really good-great main event matches. I.e. Hart/Taker SS97, Rock/HHH SD & JD, Elimination Chamber III and the End of an Era.


----------



## Anguyen92 (Jun 24, 2011)

Hey guys, took a long leave and spent that time talking about wrestling in my poker forum, but anywho, did anyone here see the Edge dvd yet, and what did you guys think of it?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Congrats Clique.

Good review. I loved that match, however the botched ending really bugs me, Taker comes in too late, the clock delays and still is a good minute behind, the buzzer randomly goes off, etc. apart from that it was a really good match, better than Bret/Shawn imo.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2003) - ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania 19) - ***1/2


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ironman?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Lesnar

SD before WM - 1/4*. Not a match, just Lesnar murdering Eric Angle then Kurt rolling Lesnar up. Was originally gonna be Lesnar's title win but Kurt decided to go ahead with the WM match despite his fucked neck.

WM - ****

SS - *****

Iron Man - ****1/2


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Okay, if Kurt was out what would they have done? Have Brock win the belt on SmackDown and then... uhh


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Full 5 for their SS match? Yeah was awesome, I only watched it last night but the full 5 is a no go considering how high I regard 5 star matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea what would have happened at WM. Don't think they got that far into the plan before Kurt decided to stay.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

If Angle was out I could see them throwing Benoit in there with Lesnar especially after Benoit's performance at the Rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Benoit/Lesnar at WM would have been epic.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Benoit/Lesnar on SD! is one of Lesnar best matches if I remember correctly too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, their Dec 03 match was pretty great. I'd still put a bunch of Lesnar matches over it though. Off the top of my head:

Vs Angle WM, SS, SD Iron Man
Vs Undertaker Unforgiven, HIAC
Vs Eddie NWO

7 is a bunch, right? Might be forgetting something.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Ironman?


I have never watched any Ironman match ..i tried (6 years ago) to watch HBK/Bret but i found my self sleeping after 10 minutes lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

robertdeniro said:


> I have never watched any Ironman match ..i tried (6 years ago) to watch HBK/Bret but i found my self sleeping after 10 minutes lol.


Well you should give the good ones a go lol. Bret/HBK certainly isn't worth your time .

Rude/Steamboat from 92 is only a 30 minute Iron Man match. Not too long, and totally fucking awesome.


----------



## Rossyboy10 (Apr 20, 2012)

Considering a few pages back everyone was talking about WM21 I decided to give it a watch. 
Here are my ratings:
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio ***3/4
Kane vs Edge vs Christian w/ Tyson Tomko vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit for the Money in the Bank ****
Randy Orton vs Undertaker ***3/4
Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle ****1/4
Big Show vs Akebono Sumo Match **1/4
John Cena vs JBL for the WWE Championship ***1/2
Batista vs Triple H w/ Ric Flair for the World Heavyweight Championship ***3/4

Bear in mind I'm quite harsh when it comes to rating matches. Overall the PPV was okay the undercard was good but the two world titles matches really wern't up to standard considering it was meant to be the big break for both Cena and Batista. I did enjoy the segments with JBL and Triple H as wlel as the Hogan and Austin/Piper Bits.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just rewatched Angle/Lesnar from SS 03, wouldn't say it was ***** but it was really really close, the second half of the match was definitely ***** but I found the first half to be just lacking a tiny bit, the crowd seemed to take a bit to get into it but by the end were great. Lesnar's selling of the Ankle Lock was great and the F5 on one leg was a great spot, McMahon also really added to the ending.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the subject of Angle/Lesnar SS and my ***** rating, here's a review I did for it a couple of years ago during the top 100 WWF/E matches poll. Wanted to see if it still held up as ***** or not. Totally did (obviously lol), but this is why:

*Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam 2003*

Ok, before I start, I just wanna talk about the whole McMahon/Lesnar partnership that took place during the build up to this match. I hear people complaining about it ALL the time, but here is how I look at it:

When Lesnar beat Angle for the belt at WrestleMania, he ONLY just beat Angle in a very hard fought match... and Angle basically had a broken neck. So when Angle comes back all healthy and shit, he is able to win back the title straight away in a triple threat match by beating both Lesnar AND Big Show together. So Lesnar had to be smart about this. Yes, he is a monster, but Angle might actually be better than him. He barely beat him when he was near crippled, and he was unable to stop him, even with Big Show in the match, when he came back healthy. So why not get the old "insurance policy"? Look how great it worked out for The Rock at Survivor Series 98. Or HHH at WrestleMania 2000. Or Steve Austin at WrestleMania 17. Lesnar teaming up with Vince was PERFECT imo for this feud, especially as it switched the roles between the two, allowing Lesnar to be a heel which is where he was arguably at his best.

Now I have that out of the way... the match!

They tie up to begin, and Lesnar runs Angle into the corner. So next time they lock up, Angle takes Lesnar down to the mat, showing Lesnar that he may have the power advantage, but on the mat Angle is unparalleled. They go back and forth between Angle going to the mat and Lesnar throwing Angle to the mat as they try to prove to each other who is the better man. Lesnar throws Angle to the mat a couple of times in a row, and begins to get cocky, so the next time they tie up Angle goes behind Lesnar and pushes HIM into the corner! Lesnar gets pissed and runs into an arm drag, which causes him to go to the outside and battle with the steel steps to calm himself down . Similar to my thoughts on Austin/Undertaker from Backlash 02, I just fucking LOVE how the match starts. Both men show how they plan to wrestle the match and try to get inside each others heads to gain the psychological advantage.

Angle manages to get the better of Lesnar overall in the opening few minutes of this match, but Lesnar's transition spot into his control segment is pretty cool; he press slams Angle to the outside.

Lesnar smartly goes for a cover after most of the moves he hits, even if he knows they won't keep Angle down, as he knows it will take something out of Angle every time. Angle tries to come back into the match, and at one point counters another press slam (ain't gonna fool Angle again) into a pin, but Lesnar gets out and goes right back to work on the champ, this time with a sleeper (and uses a body scissors too, which is important to note).

Everything Lesnar does now seems to be targeting the mid section of Angle. A good way to wear down Angle, and also helps build to the F-5 as the opponent lands face and stomach first on the mat.

Kurt continues to fight back again and again, with right hands or pin attempts. Adds a little more validation to my theory on Lesnar teaming with Vince I guess lol, as it shows that it will take a hell of a lot to put Angle away and take the title from him.

Angle's comeback is just something else I really like about the match, going back to the "not gonna fool Angle again" thing I mentioned earlier. Lesnar runs into Angle in the corner, again working over the body, but when he tries to do it again, Angle is able to move and Lesnar goes shoulder first into the corner. From here, Angle targets the shoulder, and even gets a couple of German Suplexes in which is a unique, yet totally viable way of further injuring the shoulder!

Lesnar fights back too, and we end up going into the finishing stretch of the match, with Angle countering an F-5 and hitting an Angle Slam, then going for the Ankle Lock. Ref bump! Counter to a potential spinebuster attempt (which Lesnar hit Angle with earlier... again Angle doesn't get fooled twice!) into another Ankle Lock!

More complaints here no doubt from some people, as Angle never built to the Angle Lock, and I can understand that. However, Angle does have it locked in for a pretty lengthy period here while the ref is down, so that alone does the damage that will allow Angle to eventually win with it.

McMahon shows up to help Lesnar while the ref is down too, and more LOVE from me when Lesnar hits Angle with an F-5... and sells the ankle! He literally hits it with ONE LEG! Awesome, just awesome.

Damn, you know, I never picked up on the story for this match with Angle never "getting fooled twice" as I have been mentioning over and over, until this watch. But its there, and it keeps coming back again and again, and plays into the finish too. Lesnar had only hit one F-5 so far in the match, and Angle kicked out. McMahon tells him to go for it again, but Angle counters (!!!) and the Ankle Lock is slapped on again, and Lesnar has no choice but to tap out due to the pain it was already in.

So is this match still ***** for me? FUCK YES. In fact, I liked it more. I picked up on a cool story for the match that I never saw before, and it just made everything even better. I <3 this match.

*Rating: ******


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Well you should give the good ones a go lol. Bret/HBK certainly isn't worth your time .
> 
> *Rude/Steamboat from 92 is only a 30 minute Iron Man match. Not too long, and totally fucking awesome.*


Brilliant recommendation. One of, if not my favourite matches of all time.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

KingCal said:


> On the subject of Angle/Lesnar SS and my ***** rating, here's a review I did for it a couple of years ago during the top 100 WWF/E matches poll. Wanted to see if it still held up as ***** or not. Totally did (obviously lol), but this is why:
> 
> *Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam 2003*
> 
> ...


Never thought of it like this before, really makes sense

Enjoyed your review, like I said for me it was really really close to ***** but I just felt the crowd took a bit to get into it even though the opening stuff was really good


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

imo the best wrestling match wwe has ever produced was always the kurt angle/benoit matches for techincal wrestling but my fav of all time has to be wrestlemania x-7 rock vs austin 2 all the hype to be one of the best matches in wwe history and they lived up to it


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Well you should give the good ones a go lol. Bret/HBK certainly isn't worth your time .
> 
> Rude/Steamboat from 92 is only a 30 minute Iron Man match. Not too long, and totally fucking awesome.


Thanks and i will try to watch Rude/Steamboat..both are great wrestlers,so why not


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rossyboy10 said:


> Considering a few pages back everyone was talking about WM21 I decided to give it a watch.
> Here are my ratings:
> Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio ***3/4
> Kane vs Edge vs Christian w/ Tyson Tomko vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit for the Money in the Bank ****
> ...


Those aren't even CLOSE to being harsh, TBH. Average rating for Cena/JBL is like, less than one star and Batsta/Trip gets around three. Show/Akebono gets duds.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rossyboy10 said:


> Considering a few pages back everyone was talking about WM21 I decided to give it a watch.
> Here are my ratings:
> Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio ***3/4
> Kane vs Edge vs Christian w/ Tyson Tomko vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit for the Money in the Bank ****
> ...


Yes, I can see that.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I don't understand how Cena/JBL is only 1/4* worse off then Taker/Orton. It's one of the shittest main events (co main event whatever) in Wrestlemania history.


----------



## Rossyboy10 (Apr 20, 2012)

My rating system needs overhauling. At the moment I sorta start at 3 stars and kinda go up from there.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

robertdeniro said:


> I have never watched any Ironman match ..i tried (6 years ago) to watch HBK/Bret but i found my self sleeping after 10 minutes lol.


I try to avoid Ironman matches these days... Seems like the thing to do in the 'biz for it to come down to the final minute-or-so, if not go OT/Sudden Death.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Decided to try and figure out my favorite match of each gimmick.

Triple Threat: Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM XX
Fatal Four Way: Cena/Edge/Orton/HBK - Backlash '07
Steel cage: Eddie/JBL - Smackdown '04
HIAC: HBK/Taker - Bad Blood '97
Ladder: E&C vs Hardyz - No Mercy '99
TLC: TLC I - Summerslam '00
MITB: MITB IV - WM XXIV
Table: Hardyz/Dudleys - Rumble '00
Street Fight: Triple H/Cactus Jack - Rumble '00
I Quit: JBL/Cena - JD '05
Last Man Standing: John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble '07
Iron Man: Angle/Lesnar - SD '03
Falls Count Anywhere: Umaga/Hardy - ONS '08 (Couldn't think of many)
Stretcher Match: HBK/Batista - ONS '08
Special ref: HHH/Taker w/HBK - WM XXVIII


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Brye said:


> Decided to try and figure out my favorite match of each gimmick.
> 
> Triple Threat: Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM XX
> Fatal Four Way: Cena/Edge/Orton/HBK - Backlash '07
> ...


Good list, only one's I would probably disagree with are Brock/Undertaker as the HIAC and TLC II from Mania 17. 

I rewatched HHH v Cactus Jack the other day and that match just gets better every time I watch it, Foley really made HHH that night


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Thought I would do a similar thing and decide what was my favourite match from the following gimmicks:

*Triple Threat:* Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania XX
*Fatal Four Way:* Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle - No Way Out '01
*Steel cage:* Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - Summerslam '94
*Hell in a Cell:* Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - Bad Blood '97
*Ladder:* Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - Wrestlemania X
*TLC:* TLC I - Summerslam '00
*Money in the Bank:* MITB IV - Wrestlemania XXIV
*Table:* The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boys - Royal Rumble '00
*Street Fight:* Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble '00
*I Quit:* The Rock vs. Mankind - Royal Rumble '99
*Last Man Standing:* Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - Royal Rumble '04
*Iron Man:* The Rock vs. Triple H - Judgement Day '00
*Falls Count Anywhere:* The Rock vs. Mankind - Superbowl '99
*Stretcher Match:* Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - Judgement Day '03
*Special ref:* Triple H vs. The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels as referee - Wrestlemania XXVIII


----------



## Rickeey (Jan 5, 2011)

I got bored last night and decided to watch the RVD/Eddie series from 2002. it's easily one of my favorite mid-card feuds in recent memory, even if it's not that recent.

*Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam - Backlash 2002*
This was really great stuff, and a superb start to what's one of my favorite feuds of 2002. Even before the bell rings, I get a feeling that Eddie feels like he has something to prove. He'd battled drug addiction and lost his job. Now here he is, back in the big-time, he has to prove he's deserving of a second shot in the major leagues. Things starts with RVD being a fiery son-of-a-bitch and not giving Eddie much room to breathe. His offence is like gun-fire, just wham, wham, wham and there's a sweet moonsault to the floor too. That spot always impresses the shit out of me. Eddie finally gets the ball rolling by getting the knees up on the Rolling Thunder. Now it's time for shit to go down. Eddie starts some sadistic back-work, even I feel sorry for RVD's spine. There's back drops, submissions, backbreakers, powerbombs, Gory Stretches, you name it, he's fucking up RVD's back with it. 

The finish was textbook Eddie. Neither guy could hit their respective Frog Splash but Eddie was determined to hit his, after all, it was his finisher first. After some title-belt antics and ref bumping, Eddie feels froggy and puts RVD away. That actually surprised me, I was expecting some sort of everyday RVD-comeback razamataz but this caught me off guard, I was pleasantly surprised. I like being surprised since I couldn't remember who won this. Like I said, superb stuff.

****3/4

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam – Insurrextion 2002*
So yeah, this match. Definitely wasn’t as good as Backlash anyway, but it was pretty good for what it was. RVD starts out being all feisty and shit, wanting revenge for his title-loss. All his stuff looks really snappy and some of it’s executed better than in the previous match. Eddie gets a nice two-pronged offence going on between the head and the leg. But after a while, RVD just ignores it and continues as per usual with his flippy stuff. I get that he’s stretchy and his legs are in good nick and all but it just felt out of place seeing all that legwork lead to nothing. There’s a DQ finish because there isn’t a hope in hell of a title-change on a UK PPV. RVD sends the crowd home happy with a Frog Splash. Like I said, this isn’t as good as the Backlash match, but its still another nice outing from these two.

****1/4

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam – Judgment Day 2002*
Ah, this was much improved from the UK match. The entire match is pretty much all RVD but Eddie’s mannerisms more than make up for his lack of offence. This can be seen right from the opening where RVD seems to be one-upping Eddie on everything and it’s frustrating the shit out of Guerrero. RVD does a real good job of concentrating on Eddie’s back, his leg strength is seriously impressive in some instances, especially on one submission that I can’t remember the name of right now. I think it’s a surfboard but I’m not 100% sure. Eddie does a real nice job of selling the back like death but his facial expressions are even better. Fuck, I miss him. When Eddie eventually hits a powerbomb, it feels like he’s giving RVD a receipt for everything he’s received so far, there’s some nice spicy HATE to it. Eddie slapping his chest and firing up might very well be the best part of the whole match. Some nice savvy from Eddie to pick up the win in this one. Fabulous stuff once again, I’d probably hold it on par or slightly below the Backlash match.

****1/2-***3/4

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam – RAW 05/27/02*
We all know this one. I don’t think I’d ever really PROPERLY watched this match before but now I understand all the praise it gets. In a time where so many ladder matches just blend together and seem to be the same stuff every time, this one comfortably stands out. It’s like the hotter older sister of the other matches. There are way too many things to mention in this one, but for me the spots that stood out best were THAT powerbomb and the moonsault off the apron spot. The entire match is an incredible display of athleticism but those two just stick out in my mind. It’s not just spot-to-spot-to-spot either, which was more than pleasing. The fan-interference made me chuckle but it didn’t sour things at all. I thought RVD botching the finish might’ve left a dirty stain in my mind but they recovered well and I could still buy into the outcome. Probably my 3rd or 4th favorite ladder match ever, maybe higher, I’d need to look into that.

*****1/4*


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

My favourite gimmick matches

Triple Threat: 
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania XX

Fatal Four Way: 
Kane vs Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC 2010

Steel Cage: 
Triple H vs Ric Flair - Taboo Tuesday 2005

Hell in a Cell: 
Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker - No Mercy 2002

Ladder: 
John Morrison vs Sheamus - TLC 2010 (i'm prepared to get flamed for this...)

TLC: 
John Cena vs Edge - Unforgiven 2006

Money in the Bank: 
Edge vs Kane vs Christian vs Jericho vs Benoit vs Shelton - Wrestlemania 21

Table: 
The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boys - Royal Rumble 2000

Street Fight: 
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000

I Quit: 
The Rock vs. Mankind - Royal Rumble 1999

Last Man Standing: 
Kane vs Chris Jericho - Armageddon 2000

Iron Man: 
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown 2003

Falls Count Anywhere: 
Jeff Hardy vs Umaga - One Night Stand 2008

Stretcher Match: 
Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - Judgement Day 2003

Special ref: 
Triple H vs. The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels as referee - Wrestlemania XXVIII

Elimination Chamber: 
HBK vs HHH vs Kane vs RVD vs Booker T vs Jericho - Survivor Series 2002

Hardcore:
Mick Foley vs Randy Orton - Backlash 2004


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Didn't even think of Chamber for some reason.

Elimination Chamber: Tie between Raw '08 and Raw '09.


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

Only 2 hours left.



Mark. said:


> Less than a day left on these!
> 
> 
> WWE Vengeance 2003
> ...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This is cool. Lets see, favorite gimmick matches. I added a few in as well. 

*Triple Threat*: Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania XX
*Fatal Four Way*: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - Backlash '07
*Steel cage*: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Raw '01
*Hell in a Cell*: Triple H vs. Batista - Vengeance '05
*Ladder*: Triple H vs. The Rock - Summerslam '98/Jeff Hardy vs. Undertaker - Raw '02
*TLC*: TLC II - Wrestlemania X7
*Money in the Bank*: MITB I - Wrestlemania 21
*Table*: The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boys - Royal Rumble '00
*Street Fight*: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble '00
*I Quit*: John Cena vs. Randy Orton - Breaking Point '09
*Last Man Standing*: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded '00/John Cena vs. Umaga - Royal Rumble '07
*Iron Man*: The Rock vs. Triple H - Judgement Day '00
*Falls Count Anywhere*: The Rock vs. Mankind - Superbowl '99
*Stretcher Match*: Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - Judgement Day '03
*Special ref*: Triple H vs. The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels as referee - Wrestlemania XXVIII
*Elimination Chamber*: EC I - Survivor Series '02/EC III - New Years Revolution '05
*No Holds Barred*: Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 27
*No DQ*: Austin vs. Rock - Wrestlemania 17
__________________


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> This is cool. Lets see, favorite gimmick matches. I added a few in as well.
> 
> 
> *Fatal Four Way*: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Orton vs. Taker - Backlash '07
> ...


When did that match happen :hmm:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

robertdeniro said:


> When did that match happen :hmm:


My mistake. Although it would have been a good one no doubt lol.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Looks like my prediction (Post 1465) is somewhat wrong... A site I read posted a Tweet from Road Dogg that the contract signing will open the show.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Triple Threat*: Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle - Vengeance '02
*Fatal Four Way*: Bret Hart vs Stone Cold vs Undertaker vs Vader - IYH: Final Four 
*Steel cage*: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Raw '01
*Hell in a Cell*: Undertaker vs HBK - Bad Blood '97
*Ladder*: HBK vs Y2J - No Mercy '08
*TLC*: Wrestlemania X7
*Money in the Bank*: Wrestlemania 21
*Table*: The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boys - Royal Rumble '00
*Street Fight*: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble '00
*I Quit*: The Rock vs Mankind - Royal Rumble '99
*Last Man Standing*: John Cena vs. Umaga - Royal Rumble '07
*Iron Man*: Never watched any Iron Man match 
*Falls Count Anywhere*: The Rock vs. Mankind - Superbowl '99
*Stretcher Match*: Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - Judgement Day '03
*Special ref*: Undertaker vs. Triple H ,referee: Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 28
*Elimination Chamber*: Survivor Series '02
No* Holds Barred*: Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 27
*No DQ*: Stone Cold vs. The Rock - Wrestlemania 17


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Don't think anyone has mentioned the Ladder Match from the Rumble '01 Benoit/Jericho. I'll have a think about my list, good idea Byre.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> My mistake. Although it would have been a good one no doubt lol.


lol no doubt .. it's just weird you wrote Taker instead of HHH .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

robertdeniro said:


> lol no doubt .. it's just weird you wrote Taker instead of HHH .


Lol. I'm a secret Taker mark at heart. Freudian slip.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Triple Threat*: Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania XX
*Fatal Four Way*: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - Backlash '07
*Steel Cage*: Ron Garvin vs. Ric Flair - Starrcade '87
*Hell in a Cell*: Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Badd Blood '97
*Ladder*: Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - SummerSlam '95
*TLC*: TLC III - SD '01
*Money in the Bank*: MITB I - Wrestlemania 21
*Table*: The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boys - Royal Rumble '00
*Street Fight*: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble '00
*I Quit*: Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - COTC IX
*Last Man Standing*: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded '00
*Iron Man*: The Rock vs. Triple H - Judgement Day '00
*Falls Count Anywhere*: Sting vs. Cactus Jack - Beach Blast '92
*Stretcher Match*: RVD vs. Sabu - The Doctor Is In '96
*Special ref*: Triple H vs. The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels as referee - Wrestlemania XXVIII
*Elimination Chamber*: EC III - New Years Revolution '05


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Word said:


> Don't think anyone has mentioned the Ladder Match from the Rumble '01 Benoit/Jericho. I'll have a think about my list, good idea Byre.


Another on that tends to get overlooked is the ladder match between Triple H and The Rock at Summerslam 98 too, thought it was a brilliant mtch between two future main eventers!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Another on that tends to get overlooked is the ladder match between Triple H and The Rock at Summerslam 98 too, thought it was a brilliant mtch between two future main eventers!


Love that match! Very underrated. 

I bought the new Rock DVD set when it came out and I was happy to see this on there. I had not seen it since I got that PPV live the summer before my SR year of HS. 

Ahhhh Attitude Era.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I completely forgot about that Taker/Hardy ladder match. I remember loving it as a kid and it still holding up when I watched it a few years ago.

Glad this is catching on.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Cookie Monster said:


> Another on that tends to get overlooked is the ladder match between Triple H and The Rock at Summerslam 98 too, thought it was a brilliant mtch between two future main eventers!


Yeah that's an excellent match and a perfect example on how to put over two young stars. But I think there a quite a few ladder matches ahead of this ie. Razor/Michaels x2 Benoit/Jericho and the Terri Invitational. Still awesome though, no doubt about it.

Just put Trips/Shawn on from RR '04 as a contender for my last man standing, but I highly doubt anything will beat Trips/Jericho, epic.

Clique has a good shout on the stretcher match, RVD/Sabu from the Doctor is In 96 was awesome. The fatal 4 way elimination on the same show hold up really well too.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I think the Terri match gets more because it had more in it... But also being first of its kind, so perhaps some higher expectations.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Word said:


> Yeah that's an excellent match and a perfect example on how to put over two young stars. But I think there a quite a few ladder matches ahead of this ie. Razor/Michaels x2 Benoit/Jericho and the Terri Invitational. Still awesome though, no doubt about it.
> 
> Just put Trips/Shawn on from RR '04 as a contender for my last man standing, but I highly doubt anything will beat Trips/Jericho, epic.
> 
> Clique has a good shout on the stretcher match, RVD/Sabu from the Doctor is In 96 was awesome. The fatal 4 way elimination on the same show hold up really well too.


Yeah, agree with the ladder matches you've put down as better than it. What I found amazing was within a few months of the Summerslam ladder match for the Intercontinental title, The Rock was the new WWE Champion. 

Which just shows, even if you lose the Intercontinental title on one of the big PPV's, doesn't mean you are being "buried" which many people seem to think nowadays.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

Triple Threat: Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania XX
Fatal Four Way: Bret Hart vs Undertaker vs Vader vs Steve Austin - Final Four 1997
Steel Cage: Triple H vs. Ric Flair - Taboo Tuesday 2005
Hell in a Cell: Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Badd Blood '97
Ladder: - Hardys vs Edge & Christian - No Mercy 1999
TLC: TLC II - WMX7
Money in the Bank: MITB I - WM 21
Table: The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boys - Royal Rumble 2000
Street Fight: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000
I Quit: The Rock vs. Mankind - Royal Rumble 1999
Last Man Standing: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded '00
Iron Man: Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart - WM XII
Falls Count Anywhere: ????
Stretcher Match: RVD vs. Sabu - The Doctor Is In 1996
Special Ref: Triple H vs. The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels as referee - WM XXVIII
Elimination Chamber: EC I - Survivor Series 2002


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

ThunderAngel said:


> Triple Threat: Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania XX
> Ladder: - Hardys vs Edge & Christian - No Mercy 1999
> Street Fight: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000
> Elimination Chamber: EC I - Survivor Series 2002


Have no intention of making a list myself... However, were I to do so, these would surely be on it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll give this a go, but I'll end up forgetting matches no doubt:

Triple Threat: Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 2002
Fatal Four Way: Bret Hart Vs Undertaker Vs Vader Vs Steve Austin - Final Four 1997
Steel Cage: Bob Backlund Vs Sgt Slaughter - WWF 21/03/1981
Hell in a Cell: Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - Badd Blood 1997
Ladder: Shawn Michaels Vs Razor Ramon - SummerSlam 1995
TLC: TLC I - SummerSlam 2000
Money in the Bank: MITB I - WM 21 2005
Table: The Hardy Boyz Vs The Dudley Boys - Royal Rumble 2000
Street Fight: Triple H Vs Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000
I Quit: The Rock Vs Mankind - Royal Rumble 1999
Last Man Standing: Triple H Vs Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded '00
Iron Man: Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Smackdown 18/09/2003
Stretcher Match: Big Show Vs Brock Lesnar - JD 2003
Special Ref: Triple H Vs The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels as referee - WM XXVIII 2012
Elimination Chamber: EC III - New Years Revolution 2005


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

Just picked up Vengeance 05 from a local shop for 99p!! Brand new and everything.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

The Streak said:


> Just picked up Vengeance 05 from a local shop for 99p!! Brand new and everything.


Great find, good show that.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is my list......

Triple Threat: Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H Wrestlemania XX 
Fatal Four Way: Bret Hart vs Undertaker vs Vader vs Steve Austin - In Your House 13 (Final Four) 1997
Steel Cage: Bret Hart V Owen Hart Summerslam 1994
Hell in a Cell: Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Badd Blood 1997
Ladder: - Rock V HHH Summerslam 1998
TLC: TLC II - WMX7
Money in the Bank: WM 21
Table: The Rock V The Dudleys Raw 10-1-2001
Street Fight: HHH vs. Foley Royal Rumble 2000
I Quit: Ric Flair V Terry Funk Clash of the Champions 1989
Last Man Standing: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded 2000 
Iron Man: HHH V Rock Judgment Day 2000
Falls Count Anywhere: Sting V Foley Beach Blast 1992
Stretcher Match: Brock V Big Show Judgment Day 2003
Special Ref: Bret Hart V Undertaker with HBK as the ref Summerslam 1997
Elimination Chamber: Survivor Series 2002


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Well, on the immediate tail end of tonight's show, had one prediction right: A 3-hour show with less quality than many 2-hour shows. (Blame most of that on Brock & Eve, both physically talented, but not much good at talking.)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Triple Threat*: Mania XX, I guess. Even if it doesn't turn out to be my favourite, it's clearly the best.
*Fatal Four Way*: Backlash 07 probably, although I have to say that both Edge and Orton were horrible in this match.

Don't have a good memory of multi-man matches.

*Steel cage*: Punk/Hardy, Smackdown. C'mon, this is the shit.

*Hell in a Cell*: Triple H vs. Undertaker, Mania XXVIII.

*Ladder*: Michaels/Jericho, No Mercy.

*TLC*: TLC III from Smackdown or more likely, Punk/Hardy from SummerSlam.

*Money in the Bank*: MITB IV, Mania XXIV

*Table*: Fuck knows.

*Street Fight*: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, Rumble 2000 probably, although I'm not too fond of it.

*I Quit*: John Cena vs. Randy Orton - Breaking Point '09. Yeah this one, or maybe JBL/Cena.

*Last Man Standing*: John Cena vs. Umaga - Royal Rumble '07 without a doubt.

*Iron Man*: Lesnar/Angle, Smackdown.

*Falls Count Anywhere*: EHHH

*Stretcher Match*: By far Batista/Shawn from One Night Stand 08. Might be Batista's best match too.

*Special ref*: Triple H vs. The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels as referee - Wrestlemania XXVIII, yay two mentions.

*Elimination Chamber*: Both Chambers from NWO 09.

*No Holds Barred*: Michaels/Taker, Mania XXVI

*No DQ*: ^^


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

TJChurch said:


> I think the Terri match gets more because it had more in it... But also being first of its kind, so perhaps some higher expectations.


I don't think anyone knew how good it would be. Looking back at it now, the bumps aren't that great today because what they did after this match but by looking at the crowd you could tell how epic they thought it was and the respect they gave all 4 men.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The expectations for that probably weren't that high, since none of the guys in it were really "Names" before that match itself. Pretty sure all four of them point to THAT match when asked what first got them real recognition.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

- Triple Threat: *Benoit/Hunter/Michaels @ 'Mania XX*

- Fatal Four Way: *Bret/Austin/Vader/Undertaker @ IYH: Final Four '97*

- Steel Cage: *Magnum TA/Blanchard @ Starrcade '85*

- HIAC: *Undertaker/Hunter @ 'Mania XXVIII*

- Ladder: *Jericho/Michaels @ No Mercy '08*

- TLC: *Probably TLC II*

- MITB: _Probably the first one. Not fond of MITB matches._

- Table: _How many Tables matches have there been?_

- Street Fight: *Hunter/Foley @ Royal Rumble '00*

- I Quit/Submission: *Bret/Austin @ 'Mania 13*

- Last Man Standing: *Hunter/Jericho @ Fully Loaded '00*

- Iron Man: *Hunter/Rock @ Judgment Day '00*

- Falls Count Anywhere: Huh?

- Stretcher Match: *I really liked the one between Lesnar and Show in 2003. Haven't watched Michaels/Batista.*

- Special ref: *Hunter/Rock @ Judgment Day 2000*

- Elimination Chamber: *New Year's Revolution 2005*

- No Holds Barred/No DQ: *Austin/Rock @ 'Mania X-Seven*

- Regular Tag Team Match: *Jericho-Benoit vs. Austin-Hunter @ Raw 05/19/2001*


I'll add some more (general categories):

- Greatest match of the 80s: *Flair/Steamboat @ WrestleWar '89*

- Greatest match of the 90s: *Bret/Austin @ 'Mania 13*

- Greatest match of the 00s: *Hunter/Foley @ Royal Rumble '00*

- Greatest match of the present decade (thus far): *Undertaker/Michaels @ 'Mania XXVI*


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

- Greatest match of the 80s: Flair/Steamboat @ WrestleWar '89

- Greatest match of the 90s: Shawn Michaels/Undertaker @ Bad Blood '97

- Greatest match of the 00s: Shawn Michaels/TripleH/Benoit @ WrestleMania XX

- Greatest match of the present decade (thus far): Undertaker/Michaels @ 'Mania XXVI
__________________


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

SilverVision anthology sale

http://t.co/czTmQ5xG


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That Anthology sale is pretty awesome. If I had the money I'd pick up the WM set. Already got the RR.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> *Triple Threat*: Mania XX, I guess. Even if it doesn't turn out to be my favourite, it's clearly the best.
> *Fatal Four Way*: Backlash 07 probably, although I have to say that both Edge and Orton were horrible in this match.
> 
> Don't have a good memory of multi-man matches.
> ...


Completely forgot the about the Hardy/Punk cage match. That was great stuff. And glad to hear someone else is a big fan of Cena/Umaga. (Y) (I know Cal isn't a big fan, even if he makes a good point )


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

KingCal said:


> That Anthology sale is pretty awesome. If I had the money I'd pick up the WM set. Already got the RR.


SummerSlam going on tomorrow aswell! Hoping for Survivor Series personally.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why do SV always do great offers when I'm skint? 

At least this weeks Wild Wednesday deal is utter shit . If it was something good I'd be kicking myself (as I've done in the past).


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Triple Threat: Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM XX
Fatal Four Way: Cena/Edge/Orton/HBK - Backlash '07
Steel cage: Magnum T.A vs. Tully Blanchard - Starrcade '85 (Presuming WCW matches are allowed in this thing )
HIAC: HBK/Taker - Bad Blood '97
Ladder: Jericho/HBK No Mercy '08
TLC: TLC I - Summerslam '00
MITB: MITB I - WM XXI
Table: Hardyz/Dudleys - Rumble '00
Street Fight: Triple H/Cactus Jack - Rumble '00
I Quit: JBL/Cena - JD '05
Last Man Standing: John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble '07
Iron Man: Angle/Lesnar - SD '03
Falls Count Anywhere: The Miz vs. John Morrison Raw '11(Couldn't think of anything else tbh)
Stretcher Match: HBK/Batista - ONS '08
Special ref: Bret Hart/Taker w/HBK - Summerslam '97


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Can Americans order from SV? I assume the shipping would be more but that deal is nice, even in American dollars. (I actually don't have a clue what the exchange rate is but it seems nice :side


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Baldwin. said:


> Triple Threat: Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM XX
> Fatal Four Way: Cena/Edge/Orton/HBK - Backlash '07
> Steel cage: Magnum T.A vs. Tully Blanchard - Starrcade '85 (Presuming WCW matches are allowed in this thing )
> HIAC: HBK/Taker - Bad Blood '97
> ...


Good call.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Can Americans order from SV? I assume the shipping would be more but that deal is nice, even in American dollars. (I actually don't have a clue what the exchange rate is but it seems nice :side


Nope, they only ship to Europe. WWEShop recently had a pretty big sale with WM Anthologies though if that's what you were after. Keep checking wwedvdnews.com they always have updates on sale items.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Why do SV always do great offers when I'm skint?
> 
> At least this weeks Wild Wednesday deal is utter shit . If it was something good I'd be kicking myself (as I've done in the past).


Aye, i'll be giving that a miss too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Nope, they only ship to Europe. WWEShop recently had a pretty big sale with WM Anthologies though if that's what you were after. Keep checking wwedvdnews.com they always have updates on sale items.


Thanks. (Y)

At the moment I'm looking for the 3rd part of the Rumble set and 4th part of the Mania set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I skipped the Falls Count Anywhere part of my list, so I just decided to look up some matches. Came up with 2 that I could choose between:

Cactus Jack vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - WWE Raw is War - 22/09/97
Raven vs. DDP vs. Chis Benoit - WCW Uncensored 1998


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I skipped the Falls Count Anywhere part of my list, so I just decided to look up some matches. Came up with 2 that I could choose between:
> *
> Cactus Jack vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - WWE Raw is War - 22/09/97*
> Raven vs. DDP vs. Chis Benoit - WCW Uncensored 1998


Good call too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

For those who haven't seen Sting/Cactus Jack Falls Count Anywhere from WCW Beach Blast '92, I recommend you watch it. One of the best matches in WCW history imo that features the theme of a wild entity taking the babyface champion out of his element and that champion must become as physical as he's ever been and FIGHT to survive (ala Lawler/Funk, Flair/Funk, Michaels/Mankind, Cena/Umaga, etc).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> For those who haven't seen Sting/Cactus Jack Falls Count Anywhere from WCW Beach Blast '92, I recommend you watch it. One of the best matches in WCW history imo.


Totally forgot that was FCA. I'd put that as the best and my favourite.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Clique said:


> For those who haven't seen Sting/Cactus Jack Falls Count Anywhere from WCW Beach Blast '92, I recommend you watch it. One of the best matches in WCW history imo.


How did I forget about this, got this at around **** last time I seen it, would need t watch it again but I'm sure I'd think the same.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Shouldn't have clicked on the silver vision link, so many good deals on there, tempted by picking up the rey mysterio (biggest little man), kane and hogan sets as they are only £6.99 each, anyone have these? are they any good?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

If you're a Rey Mysterio fan you must have *The Biggest Little Man* set. Twenty-nine matches and I enjoy watching every single one of them. It's one of the best sets WWE has ever produced and one that I can throw in the player any time.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Clique said:


> For those who haven't seen Sting/Cactus Jack Falls Count Anywhere from WCW Beach Blast '92, I recommend you watch it. One of the best matches in WCW history imo that features the theme of a wild entity taking the babyface champion out of his element and that champion must become as physical as he's ever been and FIGHT to survive (ala Lawler/Funk, Flair/Funk, Michaels/Mankind, Cena/Umaga, etc).


Didn't think much of this match at all when I first watched it.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Clique said:


> If you're a Rey Mysterio fan you must have *The Biggest Little Man* set. Twenty-nine matches and I enjoy watching every single one of them. It's one of the best sets WWE has ever produced and one that I can throw in the player any time.


Couldn't agree more. Biggest Little Man is a really good set and I enjoyed pretty much all 29 matches much better than the second Mysterio set.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Went for the Mysterio one, The Hogan Anthology and Macho Madness. Debated the Austin and Kane sets in place of the Savage one but decided there were a lot more matches I hadn't seen on Savages so went for that. Can't believe what good value they are on Silver Vision will definitely be picking up more in the next few months


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Is Mysterio/Ziggler from NOC '09 as good as the one from Summerslam? And is the triple threat with Orton/Cena/Trips any good from that show?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brye said:


> Can Americans order from SV?


Grrrrr...NO!


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> The expectations for that probably weren't that high, since none of the guys in it were really "Names" before that match itself. Pretty sure all four of them point to THAT match when asked what first got them real recognition.


Don't confuse predictions with after the fact. Clearly, some team TLCs & whatnot are better, but going in, the announcers & whatnot built this match like crazy, so good or not (& it was) had some major stuff to live up to. (Commentators seem to do that with a lot of matches/shows these days.)

*Side-note: Sting/Cactus sounds good, but not sure where/how to see it.

*Also, have to ask... Am a Mystero fan, but have "619" & "Biggest Little". Is the "masked man" set (forget the exact name) worth adding to collection?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

TJChurch said:


> *Don't confuse predictions with after the fact. Clearly, some team TLCs & whatnot are better, but going in, the announcers & whatnot built this match like crazy, so good or not (& it was) had some major stuff to live up to. (Commentators seem to do that with a lot of matches/shows these days.)*
> 
> *Side-note: Sting/Cactus sounds good, but not sure where/how to see it.
> 
> *Also, have to ask... Am a Mystero fan, but have "619" & "Biggest Little". Is the "masked man" set (forget the exact name) worth adding to collection?


Bollocks. 

Those men pulled off some crazy shit (if were looking at it from the year 1999) and respect was instantly earned. If they didn't pull of this match well we may never of had the triangle ladder at mania 16 and all the TLC. It exceeded everyone expectations.

EDIT - I hate the anthologies, can't get over the blurriness.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Word said:


> Bollocks.
> 
> Those men pulled off some crazy shit (if were looking at it from the year 1999) and respect was instantly earned. If they didn't pull of this match well we may never of had the triangle ladder at mania 16 and all the TLC. It exceeded everyone expectations.


Bollocks right back at ya. The job they all did & the things they all did doesn't change what expectations were for the match before it happened.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

What proof do you have that the expectations were so high, they couldn't afford not to deliver?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Word said:


> What proof do you have that the expectations were so high, they couldn't afford not to deliver?


What proof do you have expectations were low? How about that expectations were defeinitely met? None.

"Couldn't afford not to deliver"? No need to prove a claim I never made.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Not fond of the Cactus Jack/Sting match from Beach Blast. It's okay, but nothing special.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66BUjP96km0

You said they had some major stuff to live up to, surely that the same as can't affording not to deliver right?

Watch that video, WWE didn't want the ladder match, Hardyz and E&C pushed the idea. They even talk about Shane saying safe & spectacular. Watch the crowd throughout, they get several standing ovations, when do you ever see that? RThey even get one the next night on RAW.

Watched tons of Lesnar recently, he's an amazing monster heel. Maybe one of the best, we'll see how this run goes first.

*Top 8 Lesnar*

1. vs. Taker at No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ****1/2
2. vs. Angle at Wrestlemania 19 - ****1/2
3. vs. Angle at Smackdown Iron Man - ****1/4
4. vs. Benoit at Smackdown - ****1/4
5. vs. Eddie Guererro at No Way Out - ****1/4
6. vs. Angle vs. Show at Vengeance - ****1/4
7. vs. Angle at Summerslam - ****
8. & Cena vs. Taker & Angle at Smackdown - ****

That's pretty epic for a 2 year career.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Brye said:


> Is Mysterio/Ziggler from NOC '09 as good as the one from Summerslam? And is the triple threat with Orton/Cena/Trips any good from that show?


The triple threat match is better then the one at Wrestlemania, and I liked the Summerslam match a bit more.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Razor King said:


> Not fond of the Cactus Jack/Sting match from Beach Blast. It's okay, but nothing special.


Have you seen the Submit & Surrender match between them from 91? Might be something you would enjoy more than the BB match. I think both are pretty awesome though lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> Don't confuse predictions with after the fact. Clearly, some team TLCs & whatnot are better, but going in, the announcers & whatnot built this match like crazy, so good or not (& it was) had some major stuff to live up to. (Commentators seem to do that with a lot of matches/shows these days.)


where are examples of it being built up? Can I see them?


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

*WWE Elimination Chamber Anthology*

Survivor Series 2002
Elimination Chamber
Triple H vs HBK vs Chris Jericho vs Booker T vs Kane vs RVD
match rating: ****1/2
Best of the chamber matches ever. a classic, and one of the best matches of the last decade in my opinion. 

Summerslam 2003
Elimination chamber
Triple H vs HBK vs Jericho vs Goldberg vs Orton vs Nash
match rating: ***1/4
3/4 of the match is shit, but when Goldberg comes in, well shit just gets real.

New Year's Revolution 2005
Elimination Chamber 
Special ref: Shawn Michaels
Triple H vs Batista vs Orton vs Jericho vs Edge vs Benoit
match rating: ****1/4
Third best EC match we have ever gotten. I loved all of the feuds going on in this match.

New Year's Revolution 2006
Elimination Chamber 
John Cena vs Carlito vs Masters vs Angle vs HBK vs Kane
match rating: ***1/4
Much better then I remember. first time I saw it, I thought it was shit. This time though, it has aged pretty well.

December to Dismember 2006
Elimination Chamber 
Big Show vs Lashley vs RVD vs CM Punk vs Test vs Holly
match rating: ***1/4
I like it. The RVD/Punk exchange was great, and some great spots by the guys in there. It still has a ton of problems though.

No Way Out 2008
Elimination Chamber
Undertaker vs Batista vs Big Daddy V vs Khali vs MVP vs Finlay
match rating: ***
Other then a few spots, I thought this was decent at best. I expected much better from Undertaker and Batista in there.

No Way Out 2008
Elimination Chamber 
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Hardy vs Umaga vs HBK vs JBL
match rating: ****
Great match with some great spots. Everyone shines in this match. Too bad its so short though. Only like 23 minutes or something like that.

No Way Out 2009
Elimination Chamber 
Edge vs Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy vs HHH vs Kozlov vs Big Show
match rating: ***1/4
There is some good stuff in there but ten minutes of boring slow crap from Show and Kozlov just killed it for me.

No Way Out 2009
Elimination Chamber
Cena vs Mysterio vs Kane vs Knox vs Jericho vs Edge
match rating: ****1/4
Second best EC match ever. Mysterio is a god in this match. Edge shines, and the surprise elimination of Cena was awesome as well.

Elimination Chamber 2010
Sheamus vs Cena vs Kingston vs HHH vs Orton vs Dibiase 
match rating: DUD 
One of the biggest DUD's I have ever seen. It was so fucking boring. No big spots, and nothing interesting happens. It really didnt help that the crowd was so quiet for everything they did.

Elimination Chamber 2010
Undertaker vs Jericho vs Punk vs Morrison vs Truth vs Mysterio
match rating: ****
Great way to end the anthology. Morrison and Mysterio were amazing in here. Undertaker does great as well, and so does Jericho. It was also a great surprise when HBK came at the end of the match.​


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> where are examples of it being built up? Can I see them?


Can you see them? Maybe, maybe not, But you can hear them, if you listen to commentators on prior shows, same as they talk now.

Word, watched your vid, & it means little-to-nothing, as you can just about guarantee they were all under WWE payroll when they made those comments.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> Can you see them? Maybe, maybe not, But you can hear them, if you listen to commentators on prior shows, same as they talk now.


Hardys/Edge & Christian was a best of 5 series:

SmackDown 9/30/99- Terri Tournament announced. E&C win first match. E&C 1, Hardys 0.
Raw 10/4/99- E&C win again. E&C 2, Hardys 0
SmackDown 10/7/99- Hardys win. E&C 2, Hardys 1.
Raw 10/11/99- Both teams DQ'd. Still E&C 2, Hardys 1.
SmackDown 10/14/99- Three days before No Mercy. E&C have two points, Hardys have one. If E&C win, there is no fifth match. Hardys win; Hardys 2, E&C 2.

Where was it announced that there would be a ladder match, and where is this commentator build? the 10/14/99 SD is the last Raw/SD show before No Mercy- 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuEqxVLclUM
here's the full thing. Point to me where these 'expectations' and 'things to live up to' are. The Hardys/Edge and Christian stuff starts at around 48:19 where Terri's being all sexy.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Where was it announced that there would be a ladder match, and where is this commentator build? the 10/14/99 SD is the last Raw/SD show before No Mercy-
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuEqxVLclUM
> here's the full thing. Point to me where these 'expectations' and 'things to live up to' are. The Hardys/Edge and Christian stuff starts at around 48:19 where Terri's being all sexy.


Point to it in one of the shows? No thanks; I have better things to do than sit here & watch an old show, as I have a life.

I'm not going to know/think of all the dates & everything said around every match... The buildup existed, same as it does/they do for matches these days (probably better, actually, due to JR & not Cole). Regardless, most of it was probably met/exceeded, as I've already stated, & it doesn't affect the way the match looks this far after the fact.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> Point to it in one of the shows? No thanks; I have better things to do than sit here & watch an old show, as I have a life.
> 
> I'm not going to know/think of all the dates & everything said around every match... The buildup existed, same as it does/they do for matches these days (probably better, actually, due to JR & not Cole). Regardless, most of it was probably met/exceeded, as I've already stated, & it doesn't affect the way the match looks this far after the fact.


With all the crap you write you'd think you'd actually back something up. There weren't big expectations for this despite whatever bullshit you were trying to spew and you haven't proven otherwise. Stop posting garbage you just pull out of your arse.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> With all the crap you write you'd think you'd actually back something up. There weren't big expectations for this despite whatever bullshit you were trying to spew and you haven't proven otherwise. Stop posting garbage you just pull out of your arse.


I could say the same to you. (IN fact, consider it done.) 

There were, & the fact I can't specifically post proof of it now doesn't change it. Odds are you were one of the people with such expectations, the same way you are one of the members posting the same crap/garbage (pick the word you want; I took both from your post) you attack me for posting.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't understand why people even bother to argue things with TJChurch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> I could say the same to you. (IN fact, consider it done.)


I expected this from you. you're always spouting 'i know you are but what am i' baby shit. I backed up that there were no expectations. You backed nothing up and continue to think you're right.



TJChurch said:


> There were, & the fact I can't specifically post proof of it now doesn't change it.


I was never specifically trying to prove you wrong. I literally wanted to know where the expectations were. I have no problem being proved wrong, but I haven't. 

I said- "weren't terribly high expectations" 
you said- "yes there were"
I said- "where?"
you said- "commentary"
I looked and found nothing. then SHOWED that there was nothing.
you said- "yes there was" and showed me nothing.




TJChurch said:


> Odds are you were one of the people with such expectations,


Wasn't a wrestling fan in '99, and I don't even like the match. 



TJChurch said:


> the same way you are one of the members posting the same crap/garbage (pick the word you want; I took both from your post) you attack me for posting.


I don't bullshit then get proven wrong then continue to back what I said. So, no.

What did I post that I pulled out of my arse?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker 
HELL IN A CELL for the WWE Championship 
WWE No Mercy 2002*










* “THIS IS THE NEW PHENOM! One that will ANNIHILATE YOU! DESTROY YOU! HE CONDEMNS YOU TO HELL!!! 

Deadman, Rest … In … Peace …”* – _Paul Heyman_


Undertaker and Brock Lesnar came into Hell in a Cell with such a personal animosity for one another and this is where it all culminated in sheer brutality. That's what this match type calls for and how it should be used in the WWE. They ran with the storyline of Lesnar and Heyman threatening Undertaker’s pregnant wife and I think that took Undertaker’s character to a more vulnerable level emotionally which we had never seen before or since. The internal struggle Taker had to go threw in the build up with his family being brought into a scandal instigated by Paul Heyman and the decimation of his trusty 'soup bone' right hand by Lesnar was the Hell leading into this Cell. Taker had to bring hell to Brock for his family and for himself. 

The selling of Undertaker's hand injury has received criticism from some fans over the years that claim he didn't sell extensively enough. I didn't think Taker's selling was a problem at all. I think he did as best as he could sell that he was indeed in pain and that he wouldn't allow a maimed body part stop him from fighting this monster. Every time Undertaker used the hand for a punch he quickly pulled it back in agony along with a pain filled scream - now that is good selling. Tazz and Cole even explained when Undertaker used the hand for a Chokeslam as adrenaline kicking in and that’s enough reasoning for me. 

Unlike the first ever HIAC, Undertaker met his match here and then some in the animalistic champion Brock Lesnar. However, Taker was forced to use the old “cast as a weapon” during the match. Because of the cast Taker controlled the first quarter of the fight which had never been done to Lesnar at the time and I don't think has since. Brock felt the pain of the cell as Undertaker rammed his head and raked his flesh into the steel fence. 

Lesnar bleeds and Paul Heyman screams! God, Heyman’s voice is so annoying! Classic heel manager that Paul E was. Undertaker makes us all happy momentarily when Heyman mistakenly got his hand stuck in the Cell and busted his head open! I thought that was awesome to feature that payback spot for all the hell Heyman put Taker through. Lesnar being the freakin MANSTER that he is used his brute strength to slam Undertaker into the Cell and followed that up by desperately pulling at the cast to remove the weapon. With the help of Paul Heyman and his belt, Brock viciously struck Taker’s hand with a steel chair until the cast came off. When the cast inevitably came off the match got even more violent.










The two steel stair shots to Undertaker’s skull are two of the most violent stair shots I’ve seen in wrestling. The sound of the stair bouncing off Taker's skull was sickening to hear. Undertaker’s created one of the most grotesque scenes ever with his blade job. Absolute carnage was Brock's domination. Lesnar was put over so huge it's ridiculous. 

The "crimson mask," his exhausted facial expressions all help make his babyface and peril performance in this bloodletting look astounding. What I've always loved about Undertaker's selling in the last decade is how he portrays a beaten down man whose will to fight to the very end won't die even when his body does. 

The Tombstone countered into the F-5 is a phenomenal finish and the best way to end the match proving to everyone at the time that NO ONE is like Brock Lesnar. No happy endings here. The monster destroys the legend.











***** 3/4* 

What a hellacious performance from both men in one of the greatest Hell in a Cell matches ever.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

The ring after that match was amazing, was covered in blood. Just made it feel that more epic.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

KingCal said:


> Have you seen the Submit & Surrender match between them from 91? Might be something you would enjoy more than the BB match. I think both are pretty awesome though lol.


I hadn't even heard about that match.  I'll try to find it and give it a view.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Those gifs really make me want to see Brock V Taker at Mania 29 now. Probably not going to happen but Brock V Rock will be sweet too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think I might put NM 02 on and watch that match again lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Word said:


> The ring after that match was amazing, was covered in blood. Just made it feel that more epic.


Another case of BLOOD adding another element to a match that takes it to an even higher level. I love and truly appreciate the storytelling and hard-way shots Taker and Trips gave each other at WM28 but I don't think we will see a Hell in a Cell match like Brock/Taker, HHH/Batista or Taker/Orton for a long time.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

The only thing keeping Taker/Lesnar HIAC from being a 5 star match is the selling of the hand from the Undertaker in my opinion. Its still the third best HIAC match, right after Batista/HHH and HBK/Taker.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Imo the only way Taker could have sold the hand better is if he didn't use it at all which I understand why that didn't happen. Other than that he did sell pain during his punches to Lesnar until the commentator's sold that Taker was just running on adrenaline to keep him fighting.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Taker/Orton? Never seen it, never thought it was worth a watch tbh. Might watch that later.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought Undertaker did a tremendous job selling the hand. Was in pain any time he had to use it, then you have the old "adrenalin" excuse you could use, AND before the PPV they did a backstage segment with him getting a pain shot in his hand as well.

Edit: Taker/Orton HIAC is awesome. Undertaker is on a mission to MURDER Orton in that one. Would easily make my top 5 HIAC matches.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Watch the unedited version of Taker/Orton HIAC from Armageddon '05. On the HIAC DVD they edited in wide shots and shots of Orton's back when he was choking Taker with a steel chain. Takes away some of the brutality effect for me.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Do you guys recommend the Best of Raw & Smackdown 2011? It looks pretty solid.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Undertaker/Orton HIAC is around the 4 star mark. Pretty brutal match. And no way is it in the top 5 HIAC matches in my opinion.

1. Undertaker/HBK HIAC - *****
2. Batista/HHH HIAC - *****
3. Undertaker/Lesnar HIAC - ****3/4
4. Undertaker/HHH HIAC - ****3/4
5. Undertaker/Edge HIAC - ****1/2

Hell, you could put Undertaker/Mankind anywhere on that list not because of a star rating, but because of how fun and historic it was.

And finally on Lesnar/Taker HIAC. Adrenaline, or no adrenaline, it still doesnt excuse that he stopped selling the hand half way through. Sure they said they gave him pain shots, but his hand was broken, and then Lesnar broke it even more when he smashed a steel chair over it a bunch of times. Undertaker was still using the chokeslam with that same hand, and was still using it to help him climb the turnbuckle and more. Another thing that bugged me was the pain shot reference. So at first he is selling it and screaming every time he uses it, and then when he stops, well it was the pain shots. I might seem harsh on it, but it just kind of bugged me a bit. Still a near perfect match though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 HIAC Matches:

1. Undertaker Vs HBK - *****
2. Undertaker Vs Lesnar - ****3/4
3. Undertaker Vs HHH - ****3/4
4. Undertaker Vs Orton - ****1/2
5. Triple H Vs Batista - ****1/2


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I think Undertaker/Batista was pretty epic too. Saying that, what a massively underrated show. Miz/Punk/Morrison was around the *** mark, Orton/Michaels was Ortons greatest match at ****1/4 and the HIAC hits **** easily.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Batista HIAC was indeed awesome, I'd throw ****1/4 at it, same for HBK/Orton during that show.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Think I might put NM 02 on and watch that match again lol.


The DVD menu is so creepy.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Question for yall who rate matches. I'd like to do this as well but never really tried to. I guess my question is if you are going to give something **** 3/4 is it something big that is keeping it from ***** or are you just being a picky smark? Im just curious and not calling anyone out. I forget the forum but some dude I have seen refuses to give a match ***** no matter what. This kind of defeats the whole purpose. I agree with a lot of the reviews on here and they are fun to read. Keep it up guys. I have just never taken the time to give *'s to matches and would like to start.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Question for yall who rate matches. I'd like to do this as well but never really tried to. I guess my question is if you are going to give something **** 3/4 is it something big that is keeping it from ***** or are you just being a picky smark? Im just curious and not calling anyone out. I agree with a lot of the reviews on here and they are fun to read. I have just never taken the time to give *'s to matches.


When you give a match ****3/4, it means you added something to a ****1/2 match, not that you took away something from a ***** match. Five stars is in different league, there's a good difference.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Whats the so called best matches you guys havent seen?

I cant believe ive yet to see Brock/Taker HIAC, nor anything from 08 that gets props (Jericho/Michaels, HHH/Hardy, HBK/Ric Flair).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 Cell matches:

1) Taker/HBK BB97- *****
2) Taker/Lesnar NM02- ****3/4
3) Taker/Edge SSlam 08- ****3/4
4) Batista/HHH Vengeance 05- ****1/2
5) Taker/Batista SS07- ****1/4 (This and Taker/Orton are practically tied, and I swap them around all the time)

Taker/Lesnar is the highest match at ****3/4 for me and really it's just Taker's selling that keeps me from putting it at *****, while Taker/Edge is on the lower end, but has everything you could want in a match in some degree in the match... both classics. Batista/HHH is both men's best cell match, and Taker/Batista was the match we always loved between them, but more brutal and with a cell around them. Taker/Orton for an honorable mention, was just such a great end to the rivalry.

Top 5 EC Matches:

1) SS02- ****1/2
2) NYR05- ****1/4
3) World Title EC 09- ****1/4
4) World Title EC 2011- ****1/4
5) WWE Title EC 09- ****


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just rewatched Undertaker v Brock HIAC, It is definitely my favourite cell match, I'd give it ****1/2. The only reason it's not ***** for me is the selling of the hand by Taker, for the majority of the match he sold it very well but there were just a few moments that he didn't sell it. The biggest example was the chokeslam, he hit it and covered Brock all without a problem but then punched Brock with the hand and doubled over in pain, surely giving someone a chokeslam would hurt more than a punch, it's probably very nit picky but it took away from the match for me. Apart from that unbelievable match, the reversal of the tombstone into an F5 was amazing.

I'd say overall the Angle/Lesnar SS match for me was Brock's best match with this second and probably the iron man third


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Question for yall who rate matches. I'd like to do this as well but never really tried to. I guess my question is if you are going to give something **** 3/4 is it something big that is keeping it from ***** or are you just being a picky smark? Im just curious and not calling anyone out. I forget the forum but some dude I have seen refuses to give a match ***** no matter what. This kind of defeats the whole purpose. I agree with a lot of the reviews on here and they are fun to read. Keep it up guys. I have just never taken the time to give *'s to matches and would like to start.


It does have a lot to do with being a picky smark, but I don't think there is anything wrong and I personally think it's a good thing.

My view on what a 5 star match should be is that it should be flawless in the eye of the viewer. Take for example Cena vs Punk MiTB. I adore that match but a few of the botches did suck me out of the moment. It's not perfect in my eyes and gets the ****3/4 rating. 

I don't think anyone is in the position to call someone wrong on giving that match the full monty though. The match may not of perfect from a physical standpoint (an undeniable fact), but if the botches didn't negatively affect your viewing in anyway, then go ahead and give it the full five (if you think it warrants it, of course).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have no shame giving Punk/Cena *****. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Most of the time its just a "feeling" I get when watching a match. If I'm not "feeling" it as being ***** then I'm not going to give it the full 5.

If Angle/Undertaker SD 03 match had a proper finish though, I'd likely go the full *****. Possibly the same for HBK/Mankind at Mindgames lol.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Cactus said:


> It does have a lot to do with being a picky smark, but I don't think there is anything wrong and I personally think it's a good thing.
> 
> *My view on what a 5 star match should be is that it should be flawless in the eye of the viewer. Take for example Cena vs Punk MiTB. I adore that match but a few of the botches did suck me out of the moment. It's not perfect in my eyes and gets the ****3/4 rating. *
> 
> I don't think anyone is in the position to call someone wrong on giving that match the full monty though. The match may not of perfect from a physical standpoint (an undeniable fact), but if the botches didn't negatively affect your viewing in anyway, then go ahead and give it the full five (if you think it warrants it, of course).


Do you have any match at *****? I don't think any match is flawless.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

"in the eye of the viewer", he said.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Do you guys recommend the Best of Raw & Smackdown 2011? It looks pretty solid.


Need some opinions so I can get it tomorrow or Friday :cool2


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

Talking about 5 star matches, I agree with Cal in that you need to get that "feeling". It can't really be explained in any more detail than that. If it makes me revert back to being a child and just mark the fuck out then its done is job.

Punk/Cena MitB was used as an example which I agree is 5 stars. That being said, from a technical standpoint it is far from perfect, however it is still very good in that aspect and everything else about that match is amazing. 

I firmly beleive that atmosphere adds a hell of a lot to a match. A hot crowd and a great build improve a match tenfold in my eyes.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

JoeRulz said:


> "in the eye of the viewer", he said.


Fair, I just quick read. Just wondered what his 5 star matches were.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Word said:


> Do you have any match at *****? I don't think any match is flawless.


Yeah, I used to think it was like that, but my loose translation of it nowadays is 3* good, 4* great, 5* excellent and what wrestling is all about. Mind you, the only match I have ever rated 5* is

Mind you, the only match I've ever rated 5* is HHH/Batista Hell in a Cell, most of the time I just tend to go with what everybody else says 


> Whats the so called best matches you guys havent seen?


Damn near all of them, heh. As of now, the burning ones are HHH/Jericho LMS and HHH/Foley in that hardcore match, as well as the original HiaC and the original Elimination Chamber. Also CM Punk's 08-09 work with Undertaker, Hardy etc.

I also watched an extremely grainy version of 'that' No Mercy tag match, but I need to buy the actual PPV to watch it properly.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Do you guys recommend the Best of Raw & Smackdown 2011? It looks pretty solid.


If it's a good deal go for it. I probably would wait until it is markdown because I don't think the set is _that_ great. I'd get the best PPV matches of 2011 before the TV stuff.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2007

John Cena vs. Umaga - ****1/4

Excellent match. Cena selling really did bug me though, he didn't do a fantastic job. I mean his core of his body was supposed to be in pain but only sold it when he was punched in the stomach or lifted Umaga. When he did decide to sell however, it came across cheap and shit, I don't know just didn't come off well for me. The announcer table spot could have been a bit better imo too. Umaga was a star, I loved him in 07, especially with his program with Triple H despite him jobbing to him every time. Shame he loved the roids and the weed. Not a patch on the best ever LMS, Trips/Jericho but great nonetheless.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I must be in the minority but selling like in Cena/Umaga and Taker/Brock really didn't bother me when I watched those matches. Maybe I suspend my disbelief more but I didn't see any issues in those matches like I did with Cena in his I Quit and Iron Man matches with Orton. In those matches the selling is completely thrown out of the window and by the end of those matches you'd think Cena didn't just get tortured minutes prior to the finish.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

It doesn't bother me in the HIAC, and I'm never usually fussed but because the was strapped up and the video package made a deal out of it, it felt necessary to the match. I don't understand why they didn't forget about the ribs and let Cena fight. Well I do, it was make Cena look even more vulnerable than he already was and to think maybe couldn't pull it off.

Oh and those two Hogan moments in the match where he just shook off a 15 minute beat down and started running on pure adrenaline was laughable, I hate that shit.

I've heard Unforgiven 2001 Angle/Austin rivals their Summerslam match. Thinking its impossible I'm gonna give this a watch now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Word said:


> I've heard Unforgiven 2001 Angle/Austin rivals their Summerslam match. Thinking its impossible I'm gonna give this a watch now.


Rivals, no, but its still really good. I'd throw **** at it, and ****3/4 at their SS match which I'd rank as a top match for the company.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Word said:


> It doesn't bother me in the HIAC, and I'm never usually fussed but because the was strapped up and the video package made a deal out of it, it felt necessary to the match.


To me this was the exact reason it bothered me and stopped it being a ***** match for me, they had built it up, Brock had focussed on it and Taker was screaming in pain, which I don't remember Taker ever doing to the degree he was in this match.

To then have Taker start picking Brock up with the hand and then Chokeslam him just made all of that seem pointless. I was really into the match but it made me just roll my eyes and almost lose interest in the match, luckily they got me back for the brilliant ending


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I thought Cena did a damn great job at selling in his match with Umaga. Not many people these actually go to the extent of selling an injury even when they're lifting an opponent. Most of the times they just sell the body part when it is getting attacked. 

Anyway, I'm planning on watching Cena vs Orton Bragging Rights 2009, is it worth the hour?


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> I thought Cena did a damn great job at selling in his match with Umaga. Not many people these actually go to the extent of selling an injury even when they're lifting an opponent. Most of the times they just sell the body part when it is getting attacked.
> 
> Anyway, I'm planning on watching Cena vs Orton Bragging Rights 2009, is it worth the hour?


For me personally, it's a pretty damn safe bet that I'm never going to watch that match again as long as I live. However I have seen a fair few people praise it so it really is your call. 

If you haven't seen their No Way Out match though, I would highly recommend giving that a go. And this is coming from someone who has never particularly enjoyed any of their other matches(at least off the top of my head, I could be forgetting one or two).


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> Anyway, I'm planning on watching Cena vs Orton Bragging Rights 2009, is it worth the hour?


 Yes. The match is pure fun. Their 2009 series was just fun. Not great in terms of work-rate, but just very entertaining. The "Iron Man" match is ridiculous fun. They throw everything they have at each other, there are plenty of counters, and the match is non-stop action, even more impressive given that it's an hour long. Not a masterpiece of wrestling, but so much fun.

***1/2


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Need some opinions so I can get it tomorrow or Friday :cool2



If you can go for the blu ray, get that version. It has the complete Punk contract signing, Edge and Kane in their Last Man Standing match on SD, and a few other great extras exclusive to the blu ray. How much you enjoyed last year in Raw and Smackdown is gonna dictate how you feel about that set. I thought it was a good year and they cherry picked nearly all of the best, so I can recommend it easily.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Most of the time its just a "feeling" I get when watching a match. If I'm not "feeling" it as being ***** then I'm not going to give it the full 5.
> 
> If Angle/Undertaker SD 03 match had a proper finish though, I'd likely go the full *****. Possibly the same for HBK/Mankind at Mindgames lol.


This is how I feel when I give a match 5 stars. A lot of people give HHH/HBK/Benoit WM 20 the full 5, or Bret/Owen, but to me I just never felt like they were 5 star matches. The last match that I really felt was 5 stars was Undertaker/HBK from Wrestlemania 25.

How does the Summerslam match between Punk and Cena compare to their MITB match? I heard that the wrestling in that match was much better, but I never hear people talking about it for some reason.


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

Watched the 1st disc of the new edge blu ray, documentary was awesome (except from when they tried to make you feel sympathy for Edge over the Lita affair, wtf)

Matches I've seen so far:

Adam Impact vs Christian Cage - **1/2
Edge & Christian v Too Cool v TnA V Hardy's - King Of The Ring 2000 - ***1/2
Edge vs Eddie Guerrero - Smackdown 2002, No DQ - ****
Edge vs Randy Orton - Raw 2004 - ***1/2
Edge vs Matt Hardy (MITB Match) - Raw 2005 - ***1/4
Edge vs John Cena (TLC Match) - Unforgiven 2006 - ****1/4


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

Sparta101 said:


> This is how I feel when I give a match 5 stars. A lot of people give HHH/HBK/Benoit WM 20 the full 5, or Bret/Owen, but to me I just never felt like they were 5 star matches. The last match that I really felt was 5 stars was Undertaker/HBK from Wrestlemania 25.
> 
> How does the Summerslam match between Punk and Cena compare to their MITB match? I heard that the wrestling in that match was much better, but I never hear people talking about it for some reason.


From a technical standpoint I would say it's the superior match, for me though, it's just not quite on the same level as MitB as far as spectacle goes. I do think there was still a very good atmosphere surrounding the match, and the crowd was still hot, but it's just not the same. 

With how the WWE's booking can be, going in, much like the first match I wasn't sure who was going to win so that did add some intensity on the first viewing but obviously that changes on the rewatch. I would say that the fact the first match happened only a month earlier really didn't help things, I feel the build could've been so much better if they had given it a lot more time(which is a big problem the E have in general but that's a whole different kettle of fish).

This fits in with the whole 5 star match discussion well in that even though I don't generally do star ratings, if I did the MitB match would be 5 and the SS match would probably 4 and 3 quarters. As said before it doesn't have that something special.

But yeh, after that long-winded response....watch the match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I watched Angle V Taker No Way Out 06 last night. I love that match and it's one of my fav WHC WWE matches. Anyone else love it and think it's in the 4 stars or above range? I'm trying to think of a better match from 2006 but can't think of one.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Tagged Classics Sale: http://t.co/00aktk1V


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Wrestlemania 22 would have been one of my favourites if they had that match on the card instead of at No Way Out. Mania 22 really just lacked that amazing match and Angle/Taker would have been exactly that, especially with the two main events not delivering as such. If Batista didn't get injured I think they would have gone for a Batista vs. Orton WHC match with Taker/Angle being the second SD main event. Couple that with Edge/Foley, MITB, Vince/Shawn, Mickie/Trish and Cena/HHH (which I don't personally like but I know quite a few people do) and you have an amazing card and it probably would have been my favourite PPVs of all time and most certainly my most favourite WM of all time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love WM 22, but it still could have been better with Angle/Undertaker taking place instead of the horrible triple threat and medicore as fuck casket match that we got instead.

HHH/Cena and Edge/Foley are both around the ****1/4 for me, then Mickie/Trish is ***1/4 and one of my fav women's matches ever, and almost everything else on the show is extremely fun even if they aren't exactly "great" or anything (tag title match, Vince Shawn, MITB which I consider to be the worst one still).


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Gave a few big matches some rewatches.

*WWE Championship*: Triple H vs. Randy Orton - WrestleMania XXV

I like this match more every time I watch it. I love how they both hit their finishers in the first minute or so. It was a very nice way of saying "yes, you have seen this match a million times before. To show you how this one will be different, the BEGINNING of the match is just like how the other ones ENDED, so you don't know where this is going." It also put the match in a nice climax mode, already, since the action didn't need to build.

I like how it was just a fight from the beginning. There were some sick moves, like Triple flipping Orton out of the ring with the punt. The closing minutes were really good, too, with a nice ref bump, and I LOVE the ending. Orton getting the sledgehammer, HHH surprising Orton with a punt, hitting Orton with the sledge, and then just beating the hell out of him. Without the ref, it showed just how badly he wanted to pummel him. The pedigree was to show he was going to kill Orton how he wanted. I love this ending.

Problem is, two matches before, UT/HBK was the best match of the year. The crowd is dead, the story HHH/Orton is trying to tell is not apparent (I didn't pick up on what it was going for until later viewings, I hated it live), and the whole match feels like a great grudge blow-off that would be better off in the middle of the card. It has a lot of storytelling and drama, and is not focused on the action...which doesn't work for the main event. The truth is, while there is no comparison in quality, look at UT/HHH HIAC and this match...they're both going for the same effect. Difference is, UT/HHH went on fifth. This match went on last. Knowing what we know now, WM should have gone like this: IC Title, MITB, Battle Royal, Hardy/Hardy, Legends match, HHH/Orton, WHC 3-way, UT/HBK.

I honestly believe it would have played a lot better in the middle of the card, because that's where it belonged. Some matches, even GREAT matches, shouldn't go on last, including UT/HHH HIAC. This match was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But I see what it was going for, and I quite like it.

***1/4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

IMO, 2003 was one of the best years for wrestling, especially for Smackdown but Raw wasn't so bad either. Even if the storylines weren't all that great (they weren't bad but still...) the match quality was amazing, so I'm going to go through some of my favourite matches from 03, giving them a rewatch. I'll do one at a time to spark up some discussion every now and then.

--------

*Kurt Angle (c) vs. Chris Benoit
Singles match for the WWE Championship
WWE Royal Rumble 2003*






_In a match, that on paper you'd expect a five star rating, Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit put on an absolute classic at The Royal Rumble. It's a match with your average, everyday build up but with quite the extraordinary backstory. if you factor in their past history which dates back to Wrestlemania 2000 and continues through 2001 and reemerges towards the middle and backend of 2003, then you have to look at this match in a completely different light to truly appreciate it for what it is; an absolute wrestling clinic. Also, you have to look past the inevitable and obvious Lesnar/Kurt match at Wrestlemania which you knew was going to happen at the time so you knew Angle was going to walk away with the title.

With all that in mind, on to the match. A few things annoyed me about this match and I'll go through them, even though mot of them just seem a little nitpicky for me. You have Angle's knee injury which Lesnar caused weeks prior to this match - if you were as clever and as ring savvy as Benoit, wouldn't you go for that? Well you could argue that he did, but only for a few minutes as Benoit kept looking for the Sharpshooter or Boston Crab. Eventually, Chris does get it but he gets it within five minutes of the match. Kurt Angle is still relatively fresh yet he falls victim to a Sharpshooter. I would have preferred it if they held off on the submission until a while later and really focus on Benoit's need and desire to lock it in and do damage to the already damaged leg. As well as this, as soon as Benoit locked in the Sharpshooter and Kurt broke free, Benoit didn't try it again? Just because you've done it once doesn't mean you shouldn't do it again and it's something that quite bugged me about the whole match.

Other than that, this match is great. Back and forth momentum with the crowd firmly behind Benoit as you'd expect - Man, 2002 and 2003 really were the best for Benoit in terms of fitness and general performance, the dude was a machine! There were a few spots and bumps which were pretty cool, including a vicious DDT to Kurt and a very innovative transition spot from a Crippler Crossface (even though Kurt didn't really take the advantage from it). The mid-match interaction and counters were amazing and it really captured both men's character and personas - The no-nonsense, methodical, weardown style, as well as the heart, intensity and determination of both men. 

The one thing that I love about this match is that neither man has an advantage for a sustained amount of time. Even though it is obvious as fuck Angle is going to win, both men make you feel like Chris genuinely has a chance of winning his first WWE championship and it's a great feeling. You even kind of think like that even if you know the result, looking back in hindsight. Just everything about this match is great and arguably the best of their series and IMO, if it was based entirely on match quality, Michael Cole was right in saying that this could headline Wrestlemania. The last five minutes are superb and one of the best finishing stretches I've seen, quite easily.

All in all, if you haven't seen this match then you need to fucking watch it, seriously. Both men put on one of the best performances of their careers and IMO it is the best match between these two men. 2003 was a great year for both men, especially for Kurt Angle, but it's a shame that Chris ended up being thrown in a to a random tag team match at Wrestlemania. This match, plus his performance at NWO 2003 should have proven that he deserves to be in the main event.

*Rating:* ****1/2_

--------

*Next Up:* The World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Rey Mysterio and Billy Kidman (Vengeance 2003)​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD 03 was awesome, but Raw 03 was fucking TERRIBLE. Not so much about HHH hogging the title as it was him having shitty matches on a consistent basis. Then Goldberg gets the belt and continues the "wold champ has shitty matches" trend before dropping back to HHH. There ARE a couple of gems from Raw 03 (HBK/Jericho is highly underrated and often completely forgotten), but they are few and far between. Up there as one of the worst years for Raw after the brand split; 2002 being another one too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I agree completely. Whilst 2003 was pretty shit for Raw, the matches that were good were superb, IMO. You had Jericho/Michaels both at Wrestlemania and Raw, Christian and RVD in the ladder match, Goldberg and Jericho wasn't too shabby, the Raw Survivor Series match which I thought was good, Randy vs. HBK at Unforgiven, Orton and RVD at Armageddon and the Triple H vs. HBK match on Raw. There were a handful of great matches but nothing compared to Smackdown of the same year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Outside of maybe... 4 matches all year from Raw 03, I don't think anything really came close to superb. At all. Both HBK/Jericho matches, Austin/Rock and HHH/Booker T. And 3 out of 4 happened at WM lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Do you not like the Christian/RVD ladder match? I really enjoyed it tbh, and I can't stand RVD whatsoever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not really, no. There are a handful of ladder matches from Raw around 02-05 or something that on paper should have been great but I thought kinda sucked lol . Christian/Edge from 01 is also one of them. There were quite a few ladder matches on Raw (and Raw PPV) using the likes of Edge, Christian, Jeff, Matt, RVD and maybe a couple of other guys that usually excel in matches like that, but stunk up the join for me lol. Undertaker/Jeff and Eddie/RVD from 02 are probably the only ladder matches I enjoyed on the Raw side of things from that entire time period.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

So Cal, how do you feel about the Raw Survivor Series match?

I'd have to watch it again to see if it holds up but on last viewing I loved it.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

SD! 03 was awesome indeed. Watched a few matches from that year and I will really impressed by Cena. Guys like Lesnar, Angle, Benoit, Taker, Eddie aren't bad guys to headline Smackdown are they? Even Vince was involved in Smackdown. Epic shit.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*The Rock vs. Mankind (Ladder Match) – RAW 02/15/99*

It was the night after No Way Out where both men literally knocked each other the hell out. This match is brutal as most of their matches are. Rock looks to snap Mankind's knee from his body as he uses the ladder as a weapon. I thought the psychology was very strong here especially for two guys that aren't high flyers. There are no high spots in this match but I think it is a nice change of pace for a ladder match. Austin on commentary is always great. This is also the beginning of the build to Rock/Austin for WrestleMania XV.

**** 1/2*



And some "Smackdown Six" stuff from 2002:


*Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero (No Disqualification Match) – Smackdown! 09/26/02*

In the summer and fall of 2002, Edge and Eddie Guerrero had a series of battles whether it was tag team matches or singles on PPV, these two ‘clicked’ and produced quality work together. This match is on Eddie’s latest DVD Viva La Raza and on the set Edge says this is one of his favorite matches ever. He loved working with Eddie because both men are so passionate about stealing the show in ways they only know how to. Well in this No DQ match they did just that and they also earned a ton of respect after it.

This is “the conclusion” of their many battles and when watching it I could tell both Edge and Eddie wanted to lay it all on the line with the chairs and ladders in the mix. All throughout the match Eddie showed his machismo by slapping his chest, taunting Edge and the crowd as he performed some of the most amazing offense. Even though Eddie played his role as heel extremely well, sometimes when a wrestler is so damn talented the people can’t help but love and cheer for and Eddie got a lot of chants.

There are plenty of big ladder spots in this match as they just beat the hell out of each other. Some of my favorites are Eddie’s He-lo on a ladder sandwiched Edge, the sunset flip powerbomb off a ladder which is so dangerous especially for Edge who later had a serious neck injury, and the crazy backdrop into a ladder which Eddie lands on the top of his neck! Both men had the crowd at the palm of their hands in this action packed, classic and it wouldn’t end just yet. Both men probably in the moment felt the intensity of the match and Edge rammed Eddie’s head hard into the ladder busting him open. But nothing tops the Edge-a-Cution off the top of the ladder!!!

The standing ovation both men got especially Eddie was incredible. You don’t see stuff like that every day and this is special. Earlier in the match when Eddie beat his chest it was to spite the people but in this raw moment looking at him struggle to his feet the people HAD to react with insurmountable respect. I got chills when “Latino Heat” music played. Before the final replay of the finish you can see Eddie beating his chest with love to the fans. You can see why this thing we call wrestling or sports entertainment whatever is more than just a show. This is passion and love for the performance of the greatest athletes and entertainers in the world. Eddie bares his soul here as he left bloodied, defeated but respected.

******



*Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio – Smackdown! 09/26/02*

Angle totally bashes Mysterio, his hometown San Diego, illegal immigrants and Benoit before the match. This is a homecoming for Mysterio and Angle wants to spoil all of that while also trying to gain a measure of revenge against Benoit for defeating him at Unforgiven last Sunday.

This match is just about everything in it jammed packed in what seems like a short amount of time. I mean the match may be 15 minutes I didn’t time it but it felt like seven. Angle and Benoit from the start want to eliminate Rey Mysterio from the equation so they can finish their battle to prove who the best wrestler is so the biggest little man gets tossed out earlier. Both technicians start off with the counter exchanges wrestling on the mat and riding each other. 

I like Mysterio’s role in this match because every time Benoit and Angle get too comfortable suplexing each other Rey jumps in with his amazing aerial assault. Like I said before there’s a lot of action in this one and no botches whatsoever. If people enjoyed the WrestleMania 22 triple threat match then you will love the hell out of this one because it’s even better.

**** 1/2*



*Edge vs. Kurt Angle – Smackdown! 10/03/02 *

In a backstage segment before the match Kurt compared himself to a Mozart symphony or a Renoir painting. Kurt says he is as close to perfection as you can get and the gold medals prove it. Edge reminds him that he isn’t perfect and the bald head proves it! So Angle sucker punches Edge as they set out to have their match. This was maybe a two minute segment and so many things were accomplished in that short amount of time. Angle continues his feud with Benoit and Mysterio, he brings up the history between him and Edge before their match thus giving the match more heat and giving himself more heat with the fans. The people want to see Angle get his ass kicked more now and they will root for Edge to do it.

This match takes place only a week after Edge’s No DQ classic with Eddie. Edge could have come into the match with rage looking to unleash it all on Angle in a fury but he doesn’t do that. Edge instead controls his anger by focusing on an attack to Angle’s shoulder. The reasoning could be Edge wanting to eliminate the Ankle Lock which is very smart. Or Edge maybe wants to injury Angle’s shoulder like Edge got his shoulder injured in their Cage Match earlier in the year. Edge continued to mobilize Angle with arm drag-arm bar take down-submissions.

One of my favorite wrestling exchanges in the entire match is when Edge has a key-lock on Angle’s arm and Angle sweeps Edge’s leg putting him on the mat straight into a pin cover with the leg hooked! Edge kicks out but he still has the key-lock in and attempts to pin Angle! I just thought that was cool.

Any time someone outwrestles Angle he’s going to be totally pissed off and he resorts to pulling hair and punching in the ropes. This is classic Angle storytelling of the Olympic Gold Medalist throwing his pure wrestling acumen out the window when someone gets the best of him at his own game.

Angle eventually takes control of the match after an Angle Slam to the floor outside of the ring. Then the assault on Edge’s mid-section begins. Edge is one of the top babyfaces I have ever rooted for and this match is one of those instances where he does an incredible job of selling an injury. Edge delivers a tremendous performance here with his eyes looking so dazed and he continues to sell all of Angle’s offense to perfection. 

Continues to build and build leading up into a crazy ref bump and pin fall finish which leads to the match being restarted and ends with a decisive finish (sort of). This match is off the page and about the same level as their matches at Judgment Day and Backlash 2002.

**** 3/4*



*Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio – Smackdown! 10/03/02

“Rey Mysterio is simply breathtaking but will the Rabid Wolverine take his breath away tonight?”*

We have learned that Benoit and Angle will be tag team partners in the WWE Tag Team Title Tournament and they must co-exist despite the fact that they hate each other and continue to attack each other. But they only have to co-exist while they are officially teaming up in the ring.

This is sort of a mini-dream match for me. Both men perfect their craft like no other. Benoit and Mysterio are without a doubt two of my Top 10 favorite workers. Tazz mentioned Benoit and Mysterio were in WCW for years but they never had a match together so this might be the only singles match between these two greats and they both are still in full competitive form!

Benoit immediately asserts his ruthless (or toothless) aggression on Rey-Rey by countering his tilt-a-whirl offense into back breakers, throwing him hard into the turnbuckle and chopping the shit out of the little guy! Benoit is so vicious with the knee strikes. He has no mercy for anyone. Benoit knows he must ground the high flyer and he does just that with more knees to the back.

I always found it remarkable how Mysterio can exude so much pain and desperation through his mask. Mysterio is a true underdog and you can’t help but to cheer for him to continue to fight. Mysterio uses his Lucha style to counter Benoit’s aggressive submission holds and suplexes. The fluidity of their counters and shifts in the match is simply marvelous to see. They may not have wrestled much together but with their amount of skill they create a beautiful match together. Mysterio will bump so well it looks almost too dangerous for him to be in there with Benoit.

If they’d had a match in WCW it would probably be this match which is saying a lot when you look at all the awesome stuff they did there but this was a new prime for them in WWE.

**** 3/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A-DoubleBaby! said:


> So Cal, how do you feel about the Raw Survivor Series match?
> 
> I'd have to watch it again to see if it holds up but on last viewing I loved it.


Which was that again? Bischoff Vs Austin teams? Personally I think it gets overrated and honestly don't think HBK's performance at the last guy trying to hold on was THAT great, but its still a really good match, one I forgot about.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

FluxCapacitor said:


> IMO, 2003 was one of the best years for wrestling, especially for Smackdown but Raw wasn't so bad either. Even if the storylines weren't all that great (they weren't bad but still...) the match quality was amazing, so I'm going to go through some of my favourite matches from 03, giving them a rewatch. I'll do one at a time to spark up some discussion every now and then.


I just borrowed the entire 2003 PPV year from my friend. I have them all sitting here and plan to watch them during study breaks over the next few weeks lol. I'll be sure to drop some thoughts as I go along too.


----------



## Rossyboy10 (Apr 20, 2012)

What are the best Big Show Matches?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cal....did you get my PM? Let me know when you can. Thanks.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rossyboy10 said:


> What are the best Big Show Matches?


Vs.

Lesnar (Stretcher Match) - Judgment Day 03
Mayweather - WM24
Singapore Cane Match - One Night Stand 08
Undertaker - No Mercy 08
Undertaker (Last Man Standing Match) - Cyber Sunday 08

He had a pretty good 2008.

Also, Show/Cena from SD in Feb. 09. Don't have the date but it was their best match together.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> Vs.
> 
> Lesnar (Stretcher Match) - Judgment Day 03
> *Mayweather - WM24*
> ...


I really like this match lol. I don't know why but I really do like it. Fun little match and they played the whole David vs. Goliath thing to perfection imo. Outside of Flair/HBK, I'd have it as my second favorite match from Mania 24 if I'm being honest. Yeah, I liked it that much lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

vs. Lesnar @ JD 2003
vs. Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar @ Vengeance 2003
vs. Undertaker @ No Way Out 2003
w/ Shane and Vince vs. Triple H and Shawn Michaels @ Unforgiven 2006
vs. Mayweather @ Wrestlemania 24
vs. Undertaker @ No Way Out 2008
vs. Undertaker @ Cyber Sunday 2008


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Cal....did you get my PM? Let me know when you can. Thanks.


£1 per disc, £5 postage & packaging outside of the UK .

I'd add Undertaker/Show Cage Match from... early 09 on SD I think it was. Either just before the RR or just after. Couple of HHH matches in 06 too (NYR and Raw 13/02/2006).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> £1 per disc, £5 postage & packaging outside of the UK .
> 
> I'd add Undertaker/Show Cage Match from... early 09 on SD I think it was. Either just before the RR or just after. Couple of HHH matches in 06 too (NYR and Raw 13/02/2006).


PM sent (Y)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Finished the Edge DVD, documentary and matches (blu-ray). I'd really recommend it for the documentary alone. It was also nice seeing the Edge Appreciation Night they had after Smackdown back in September which ran 30+ minutes. The matches weren't bad at all, obviously they were missing a few. I would've had Edge/Foley from WM22 and the TLC match from WrestleMania 17, but oh well. Here are my ratings.

*Disc 1:*
Adam Impact vs. Christian Cage - **
Edge & Christian vs. Too Cool (c) vs. The Hardyz vs. T & A - **3/4
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero (No Disqualification) - ***1/2
Edge (c) vs. Randy Orton (Intercontinental Championship) - ***3/4
Edge vs. Matt Hardy (Loser Leaves Raw Money in the Bank Ladder Match) - ***1/2
Edge (c) vs. John Cena (TLC Match for the WWE Championship) - ***3/4

*Disc 2:*
Edge vs. Shawn Michaels (Street Fight) - ***1/2
Edge (c) vs. The Undertaker (WM24) - ***3/4
Edge vs. Christian (Pick Your Poison) - ***1/2
Edge vs. Kane (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio (TLC for the World Championship) - ***1/4
Edge (c) vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Big Show (Elimination Chamber for the World Championship) - ****1/4
Edge (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio (World Heavyweight Championship) - **3/4

*Blu-Ray Exclusive:*
Edge vs. Jeff Hardy (c) (No Disqualification for the WWE Championship) - ***


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Just finished watching the Edge documentary. It's brilliant, so I'll get the few negatives out of the way first:
Completely skipped over Rated RKO. Seriously? It was short lived but I think that was definitely a significant part of his career; he had nice chemistry with Orton and especially playing off their total opposites in Degeneration-X. I know they kept saying how pressed for time they were but really? 

Recycling the "Totally Awesome Best of Edge and Christian" extra on this was totally not awesome. That's probably something a big mark like me would notice though, considering I've only watched that clip 140934875 times or so.

But from beginning to end, my favourite story of anyone in the WWE ever is Edge's, so to see it from his perspective and that of his close friends, family and peers is something I've always wanted. Taking you through his WWE career with his own thoughts on things adds meaning to it a lot, and it's just a pleasure watching the ascent from the little boy that's a wrestling fan, to wrestler-in-training, to the flat broke young man working the indies, to the guy that finally gets into the WWE, to someone making a huge impact on the tag team scene while living his dream with his best friend, to a slightly more experienced wrestler really getting into the groove of being a heel, and his great feuds, great matches, achieving world championships and numerous accolades and then finally, legend status celebrated in the Hall of Fame (although the DVD cut out before it got there). It is just a great story that reads like a cheesy fairy tale. And it kind of is.
Hearing his peers' thoughts on him and what it's like working with him, and being with him backstage is great as well. You hear from guys like Batista that have faced him, as well as guys like Curt Hawkins that have been in his corner and know what it's like to have him as a mentor.

I'm not gonna lie though, watching the footage from towards the end of his career will never not be upsetting. Especially in this doc, where they mention things like him getting hit in the back with a steel chair and completely losing feeling in his arms. I mean I know wrestlers are trained to be super tough and take the pain yada yada, but that's just scary to me. Really, really scary. Although it's things like that that make the "I have to retire" speech that follows kind of a dead cert. That doesn't make it any easier to swallow, but hey. So it goes.


Starbuck said:


> I really like this match lol. I don't know why but I really do like it. Fun little match and they played the whole David vs. Goliath thing to perfection imo. Outside of Flair/HBK, I'd have it as my second favorite match from Mania 24 if I'm being honest. Yeah, I liked it that much lol.


I freaking love that match too! You see it on the card and it's like ugh, this is the obligatory celebrity match we have to sit through. And then they gave us that. It was awesome! Not as awesome as the MiTB match, Flair/HBK or Edge/Undertaker, but I suppose that shows you what a great show in general 'mania XXIV was .


> It was also nice seeing the Edge Appreciation Night they had after Smackdown back in September which ran 30+ minutes.


Would have been nice, if it wasn't a blu-ray exclusive :no: If anyone has a download link for it or anything, you know where to find me


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> Gave a few big matches some rewatches.
> 
> *WWE Championship*: Triple H vs. Randy Orton - WrestleMania XXV
> 
> ...


I'm probably one of the few people on here that agrees with you. Thought it was a really sound match which suffered from a lack of crowd heat due to following Michaels/Taker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Wrestlemania 24, why is the triple threat match between Cena, Orton and HHH so underrated? I watched the whole thing a few weeks ago and it's an excellent match and probably the second best triple threat in Mania history, below Benoit/HBK/HHH.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> and probably the second best triple threat in Mania history, below Benoit/HBK/HHH.


Angle/Benoit/Jericho at WM2000 (16) is sick. I love that match. 



Starbuck said:


> I really like this match lol. I don't know why but I really do like it. Fun little match and they played the whole David vs. Goliath thing to perfection imo. Outside of Flair/HBK, I'd have it as my second favorite match from Mania 24 if I'm being honest. Yeah, I liked it that much lol.


You like Show/Mayweather more than Edge/Taker? Interesting. I think the Edge/Taker match is one of the best Mania matches the last 5-10 years. One of the few times I thought the streak might be done.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Wrestlemania 24, why is the triple threat match between Cena, Orton and HHH so underrated? I watched the whole thing a few weeks ago and it's an excellent match and probably the second best triple threat in Mania history, below Benoit/HBK/HHH.


Yeah it's good. The triple threat they had at Night of Champions '09 (I think?) was good too.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WWE Championship*: The Miz vs. John Cena - WrestleMania XXVII

What's sad about this match for me is that this happened right around the time I was convinced Cena could carry anyone to a good match. I had seen how terribly Wade Barrett had done in matches with Orton, but so well in matches against Cena, Cena had had quite a few good matches with Sheamus (including a house show match which reminded me of Cena/Orton at SS '07), and for the most part, I had really enjoyed the 2010 series with Batista. I was just starting to think he had the formula down for an entertaining match, kinda like Rocky, who always put on a show (even if it wasn't the best).

But I was wrong. This match is so bad. I don't know if Cena was sick, distracted by all the Cena hate, sandbagging Miz, or what, but this is easily the worst performance he's ever given. It almost comes off as intentionally bad. He just gets pummeled by Miz, barely sells it, doesn't look like he even knows what he's doing, it's unwatchable.

The match picks up a little bit towards the end, with some A-Ri interference and a ref bump, Miz hitting the scf and Cena hitting an aa, and then the match does the unthinkable: Miz falls out of the ring, Cena slams him through the barricade, and they both get counted out.

The main event of WrestleMania ends on a countout.

But oh wait, the part of the match everyone was waiting for and knew would happen...the only part of the match people wanted to see: Rock comes out, throws the RAW laptop down, restarts the match under nodq rules, Cena tries to hit another aa on Miz, and then gets rock-bottomed. Miz makes the pin. 1, 2, 3.

The first heel to retain in the main event of WrestleMania since 2000 once again gets his ass handed to him by The Rock. Problem is, this time, The Rock wasn't in the match. The Rock wasn't in ANY match. The main event, hell the entire show, of WrestleMania ends with a non-competitor standing tall, alone.

I'll never forgive WWE for using an entire WM to set up the next. The fact that Rocky came back in February '11, had a feud with Cena, got the best of Cena at WM, Survivor Series, and it all lead to that mediocre match is just infuriating. But the worst part is that this entire match was nothing more than setup for another match a year away.


So there you have it, a clumsy, awkward main event, with a couple of bright spots, that ends in a double co, an obvious finish, and a non-competitor the only man standing.

I never understand why anyone calls this the worst WM of all time, watching Edge/Del Rio, Mysterio/Rhodes, Orton/Punk, and UT/HHH...and then I get to this match, and I could really see why. While I don't agree completely about that, I will say this:

this IS the worst WM main event ever.

EVER.

Try to think of a worse one, and I'll show you why it's not. This match could have been 20 minutes of fun. It could have been the rematch they had on RAW a few weeks later.

And yes, I did compare. The ME of WM 1 gets a bye for it's history, 2 for being a classic Hogan monster match, 3 is the same, 8 is at least Hogan's last hurrah in the WM main event and the awesome return of the Warrior, 9 I personally like, 11 at least was unexpected, 13 ended with UT winning a WM main event, and comparing this to Triple H's less-than-stellar main events at 18, 21, 25 isn't even fair. I wanted to like this, I really did.

*1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My birthday today, and my brother told me to order something for £20 on his card (I have all his details written down lol...). So I went to SV, and thanks to their sale and the "buy 3+ DVD's get 20% off" I was able to get:

Steve Austin:The Most Popular Superstar Of All Time DVD (4 Discs)
Money in the Bank 2011 DVD
WWE Live In The UK: April 2010 DVD (2 Discs)
Divas Undressed DVD

For £20.66 . Bargain for the Austin DVD (its currently only £6.99 btw), MITB was an awesome event (and only £5.99 atm too!), I love owning the UK shows (love that they started releasing them on DVD, and its great to own the show if you went to it), and the Divas Undressed DVD is in the stock clearance sale, so when its sold out its gone forever (and once its gone and out of print, it becomes RARE and worth money  ).


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*WCW - Fall Brawl 1995*

1. Johnny B Badd vs Brian Pillman
****

2. Cobra vs Sgt. Craig Pittman
DUD

*3. TV Title*
Renegade vs DDP
*1/2

*4. Tag Titles*
Bunkhouse Buck & Dick Slater vs Harlem Heat
*

5. Arn Anderson vs Ric Flair
***3/4

*6. War Games*
Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Sting & Lex Luger vs Zodiac, Shark, Kamala & Meng
**

*WCW - Saturday Night - 10/1/98*

1. El Dandy vs Juventud Guerrera
*3/4

2. Fit Finlay vs Meng
**1/2


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> *WWE Championship*: The Miz vs. John Cena - WrestleMania XXVII
> 
> What's sad about this match for me is that this happened right around the time I was convinced Cena could carry anyone to a good match. I had seen how terribly Wade Barrett had done in matches with Orton, but so well in matches against Cena, Cena had had quite a few good matches with Sheamus (including a house show match which reminded me of Cena/Orton at SS '07), and for the most part, I had really enjoyed the 2010 series with Batista. I was just starting to think he had the formula down for an entertaining match, kinda like Rocky, who always put on a show (even if it wasn't the best).
> 
> ...


I like your review, but the last part isnt fair to me. A lot of those matches were more shitty then Cena/Miz was, but you just chose something that makes them a bit unique. Well WM 27 main event ended with the Rock returning at Wrestlemania after 8 years. Thats what that match will be remembered for, and like you said, the match had a few bright spots in there that didnt make it too horrible.

Other then that, I agree with your review.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Sparta101 said:


> I like your review, but the last part isnt fair to me. A lot of those matches were more shitty then Cena/Miz was, but you just chose something that makes them a bit unique. Well WM 27 main event ended with the Rock returning at Wrestlemania after 8 years. Thats what that match will be remembered for, and like you said, the match had a few bright spots in there that didnt make it too horrible.
> 
> Other then that, I agree with your review.


 I meant to elaborate on why the main event of WM 27 is worse than some of those others I mentioned.

To me, the main event of WM back then wasn't the HUGE deal it is today. Back in 1985-1992, work-rate was much different, and let's be honest, A LOT of stuff, is just held to a different standard. No one was thinking the main event of WM 1, or 2, or 3, would be a wrestling clinic. The first WM me was a tag team match that did its job. For 1986, Hogan defending the title against a monster in a cage was what it needed to be. Same goes for III. Hogan/Sid is bad (probably the second worst main event), but at least it was part of the arc of Hogan WM main events. 

I guess my problem is this: once you get to, say, WM 12: the main event is supposed to be a huge deal. After WM 12, 14, 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, and 26, for the WM main event to be of such pure quality is more inexusable than a crappy Hogan cage match or whatever silliness 1995 came up with. The main event of WM 27 should, essentially, know better. As I mentioned in my review of WM 25, while the main event was very flawed, I saw that it was going for something special. If you go back, you'll see that the last time the main event just wasn't that good (because it sucked AND it had no story) was WM X8. That's why it strikes me as worse.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is the Best of *WCW Clash of Champions DVD* still coming to the UK? It was on Silver Visions' Pre-Order list but isn't anymore....


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Is the Best of *WCW Clash of Champions DVD* still coming to the UK? It was on Silver Visions' Pre-Order list but isn't anymore....


Most likely still is. They also removed WM 28 and another DVD release (I forget which), and WM 28 will DEFINITELY be released, so I'm pretty sure the other ones taken down for now will also be released too, once they sort out... whatever the fuck is wrong .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Most likely still is. They also removed WM 28 and another DVD release (I forget which), and WM 28 will DEFINITELY be released, so I'm pretty sure the other ones taken down for now will also be released too, once they sort out... whatever the fuck is wrong .


(Y) Thanks mate, i did notice its still down for a May release in the US according to Amazon...


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

SV are having problems with their pre orders that they aren't telling anyone about. WM, WCW and Extreme Rules have all been removed for some reason. They're adamant they'll fulfill orders and have them back on soon though, good company.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Shaun Blackford is a guy on you tube (from UK) and I watch his channel sometimes (big wrestling fan) who has videos about opinions and stuff. He did some video about the shady business practice of SV lately.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Shaun Blackford is a complete douche bag who talks a load of bollocks the majority of the time.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*In Your House 17: Ground Zero*

Goldust vs. Brian Pillman - **
Scott Putski vs. Brian Christopher - *1/4
Savio Vega vs. Crush vs. Farooq - 1/2*
El Torito vs. Max Mini - ***
The Hart Foundation vs. The Headbangers vs. The Goodwins vs. The Legion of Doom - *1/2
Bret Hart vs. The Patriot - ***
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - ****


----------



## Hazzard (Feb 12, 2008)

Does anyone have Summerslam 98 on Tagged Classics? Is the video quality very bad and blurry for anyone else?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got the *The History Of The World Heavyweight Championship DVD *?

Considering getting that or *Allied Powers: The World's Greatest Tag Teams DVD*


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

According to WWEDVDNEWS.com Daniel Bryan & Sheamus will also get a one disc set later this year along with John Cena & Zack Ryder.

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/daniel-bryan-2012-wwe-dvd-on-the-way/23264/


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Has anyone got the *The History Of The World Heavyweight Championship DVD *?
> 
> Considering getting that or *Allied Powers: The World's Greatest Tag Teams DVD*


 I don't have the Tag Teams DVD, but I definitely recommend the first. 

-Ric Flair/Sting from Great American Bash 1990 has Sting's first world title win, and is a classic match.

-Vader/Ron Simmons is one of the best big man world title matches ever. Very nice match.

-Hogan/Flair at Halloween Havoc is possibly their best together.

-Sting/Hogan and Hogan/Goldberg are both entertaining and historic matches.

-Jarrett/Booker is probably one of the last great WCW matches before they folded, even more impressive given that the whole match was probably largely unplanned.

-Rock/Jerich is definitely their best match together, and one of the best matches of 2001.

-HHH/RVD is a gem.

-Angle/UT is probably one of the best matches of 2006.

-Mysterio/Orton is sadly, better than the 3-way at WM 22.

-Jericho/Cena is a classic main event type match.

-Edge/Hardy is good old fashioned ladder mayhem.

I highly recommend this: perfect combination of old-school NWA, NWO WCW, post-attitude WWE, and some modern classics. I love a set that can cover many eras.


----------



## ecabney (Dec 9, 2011)

*D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*



> *WWE Superstar Collection: Daniel Bryan*
> 
> _Since his debut on the very first season of WWE NXT, Daniel Bryan’s career has resembled a roller coaster ride. From his oil-and-water relationship with his NXT Pro, The Miz, through his rocky road from Nexus-member to singles star, to his crowning achievement winning the World Heavyweight Championship, this internet sensation-turned mainstream star has been no stranger to success or controversy, and is never short on words…or wrestling holds. In this first-ever DVD set to focus on Daniel Bryan, fans can own some of the best action featuring this multi-talented Superstar, including his very first match in WWE._





> *WWE Superstar Collection: Sheamus*
> 
> _With a WWE Championship, World Heavyweight Championship and United States Championship to his credit, as well as victories in the Royal Rumble Match and King of the Ring tournament, “The Great White” Sheamus can already boast the credentials that have eluded several WWE Hall of Famers. This DVD collection, the first ever to focus on the Celtic Warrior, features five milestone matches from Sheamus’s impressive career, including his shocking first WWE Title win over John Cena in a Tables Match and the riveting finale of the 2012 Royal Rumble._


http://www.wwedvdnews.com/daniel-bryan-2012-wwe-dvd-on-the-way/23264/


----------



## DJ2334 (Jan 18, 2011)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*

A Sheamus dvd I can sort of understand, but a Daniel Bryan one already? It's a little too early for him to have a dvd coming out. He just barely got interesting (not talking about in ring skill) recently. The early part of his career was just plain boring (his face run with the us title and the bellas, not talking about ROH).


----------



## drew mcintyre (Jan 3, 2012)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*

oh shit i can"t wait for bryan"s dvd !!

i have bryan danielson " the american dragon " dvd & i loved it  

& now daniel bryan dvd oh shit i can"t wait !!

fuck sheamful"s dvd !


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*

WWE will make a Sheamus DVD, and yet WWE still refuses to make a Christian one. I'm not seeing the logic here at all.


----------



## ecabney (Dec 9, 2011)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*



DJ2334 said:


> A Sheamus dvd I can sort of understand, but a Daniel Bryan one already? It's a little too early for him to have a dvd coming out. He just barely got interesting (not talking about in ring skill) recently. *The early part of his career was just plain boring* (his face run with the us title and the bellas, not talking about ROH).


You can say the same thing about Shame Us.


----------



## Peep4Christian (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*



CaptainObvious said:


> WWE will make a Sheamus DVD, and yet WWE still refuses to make a Christian one. I'm not seeing the logic here at all.


Was just gonna say this. Yeah, its partly the Christian mark in me I guess but still, the dude has been in the WWE for over 9 years if you combine his two runs so theres a huge amount of footage they can use to easily make a DVD for him. 

Looking forward to the Daniel Bryan DVD though!


----------



## Mr.Cricket (Feb 22, 2011)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*

Why are these guys getting dvds in such an early part of their careers?

I like to see WWE make one on someone like Christian or some other veterans.


----------



## DJ2334 (Jan 18, 2011)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*



ecabney said:


> You can say the same thing about Shame Us.


I believe Sheamus had a good heel run. It wasn't as bad as some people made it out to be. Also they can add a lot to that dvd with Sheamus (two time wwe champion, king of the ring winner, us title holder, royal rumble winner, and current world heavyweight champion). With Daniel Bryan, you've got a boring past with no direction (again not talking about ROH, only his face wwe run) who's won the us title, money in the bank, and the world heavyweight championship. Not as many accolades as Sheamus nor any cool things to talk about the beginning of his wwe run. At least Sheamus started as a main eventer where D-bry only squashed Ted dibiase and jobbed to evil sin cara. I'm not putting Sheamus above Daniel Bryan, but I just see a more successful dvd with Sheamus'. D-bry could have a really interesting one in a year or two.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I still want a fucking William Regal DVD.


----------



## ecabney (Dec 9, 2011)

*Re: D-Bry and Sheamful DVD's on the way*



DJ2334 said:


> I believe Sheamus had a good heel run. It wasn't as bad as some people made it out to be. Also they can add a lot to that dvd with Sheamus (two time wwe champion, king of the ring winner, us title holder, royal rumble winner, and current world heavyweight champion). With Daniel Bryan, you've got a boring past with no direction (again not talking about ROH, only his face wwe run) who's won the us title, money in the bank, and the world heavyweight championship. Not as many accolades as Sheamus nor any cool things to talk about the beginning of his wwe run. At least Sheamus started as a main eventer where D-bry only squashed Ted dibiase and jobbed to evil sin cara. I'm not putting Sheamus above Daniel Bryan, but I just see a more successful dvd with Sheamus'. D-bry could have a really interesting one in a year or two.


D-Bry's NXT run and feud with the Miss >>>>>>>>>>>> Sheamus' first runs with the world strap. 

Ya'll talk about Punk not being the focal point as champion, Sheamus was barely relevant and he was holding the WWE's top title at the time. Underdog who wins the MITB and then goes onto win the win the world strap proving everybody wrong is way better than a guy that was overpushed that couldn't connect with the audience.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I personally want a Goldust DVD.

Shattered Dreams Productions Presents: Goldust - 3 Disc DVD & 2 Disc Blu-Ray. Take a look at one of the most bizarre WWE superstars in professional wrestling history with a one hour and thirty minute sit down interview with the man behind the character, Dustin Runnels and take a trip down memory lane with matches from WCW, WWE & previously unseen & unreleased footage from TCW. 

Yeah, 3 Discs? I'm probably dreaming but a Goldust DVD please, including his match with Jericho from Superstars please.


----------



## Rossyboy10 (Apr 20, 2012)

What's a good royal rumble match to watch? I've already seen 2000,2002,2003,2004,2007 and 2008.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

^ 2001


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

1992 and 2001 are the only ones you're missing out a lot on, tbh. 2005 wasn't bad either, but I'd watch the other two first.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Some Summerslam 2000 ratings;

Eddie Guerrero and Chyna vs Val Venis and Trish Stratus - ***1/4
Undertaker vs Kane ***
Edge and Christian vs The Hardyz vs The Dudleys - *****
Kurt Angle vs Triple H vs The Rock - ****1/2

At this point I believe Christian's DVD will only come out at his retirement. I wonder if it includes a documentary? I'm also nonplussed as to why the likes of Ryder, Sheamus and Daniel Bryan are getting DVD sets when their WWE careers are in their infancy.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Sheamus and Bryan DVDs aren't going to be your regular superstar DVDs with a detailed documentary and 3 discs. They're only going to be silly little one disc DVDs. So it makes sense. These two have no where near a career enough for a documentary.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love Bryan and Ryder but I don't like them getting a DVD this early in their career. Same with Sheamus. Especially if they're the lame type that isn't all matches. Morrison shouldn't have had one when he did but it turned out some awesome matches.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I would really like to see Goldust, Regal, Henry and Christian all have DVDs. All three have had pretty great careers and an interesting story to tell through a documentary


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How about some sort of Sting DVD please?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As long as the Sing DVD cut off in 96 it could be good. Vader, Regal, couple of tags, Cactus Jack... uhhh... documentary...

Got my discs from Silvervision today. Love their delivery. Ordered yesterday morning, got them this morning. Stuck in the 4th Austin disc for some of his early segments/promos and some of his later ones. Skipping his entire 98 stuff. I can only watch him attack Vince in the hospital or come out with a beer truck so many times. Didn't think they were that entertaining to start with . Love his ECW promos though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> As long as the Sing DVD cut off in 96 it could be good. Vader, Regal, couple of tags, Cactus Jack... uhhh... documentary...
> 
> Got my discs from Silvervision today. Love their delivery. Ordered yesterday morning, got them this morning. Stuck in the 4th Austin disc for some of his early segments/promos and some of his later ones. Skipping his entire 98 stuff. I can only watch him attack Vince in the hospital or come out with a beer truck so many times. Didn't think they were that entertaining to start with . Love his ECW promos though.


I have only just started buying from Silver Vision again (i remember buying from them in the ear;y 90's when it was all mail order, got me some Bret Hart glasses back in the day :cool2) Also need to replace my VHS collection at some point 

Anyway, great service, i usually post my orders and get them within 2 days of posting 

I also got that 4 Disc Austin DVD recently, looking forward to watching that one (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I downloaded the Austin doc when it first came out, really good stuff. They are finally on a role with docs with the Austin, Rock and Edge ones. A monstrous step up from the Cena Experience, Orton Experience (they didn't call it that, but they might as well have) and Big Show doc(way too short and didn't talk about any of his feuds in any kind of detail at all... bullshit).


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Silver Vision is amazing, been watching the Savage set over the last few days, the guy was simply incredible, He'd never been in my top 5 of all time but now from watching even more of his stuff he is easily in there. The MegaPowers feud was brilliant and he even got a good match out of Ultimate Warrior!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Savage set is a ton of fun, though I'm not as high on him atm as I used to be, thanks to the WCW Poll I took part in that finished this year. His WCW run for the most part, imo, was pretty shitty. His promos are still top notch crazy, but honestly didn't find anything match wise that was very good. Didn't think much to his series with DDP (that was a huge disappointment for me), the Flair matches happened so damn often I actually got sick of seeing them wrestle, and he had some god awful matches with Hogan lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Savage set is a ton of fun, though I'm not as high on him atm as I used to be, thanks to the WCW Poll I took part in that finished this year. His WCW run for the most part, imo, was pretty shitty. His promos are still top notch crazy, but honestly didn't find anything match wise that was very good. Didn't think much to his series with DDP (that was a huge disappointment for me), the Flair matches happened so damn often I actually got sick of seeing them wrestle, and he had some god awful matches with Hogan lol.


Is that the Macho Madness set, i just ordered that one myself, along with the Shawn Micheals: My Journey set (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, Savage only has the one set and that's the one lol. HBK set has some great matches on it too. So does his other 3 disc set (with the documentary).

Loving this 4th disc on the Austin set.


----------



## Att-Era-Kanefan (Mar 5, 2012)

*Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*

I know this match was years ago, but I wasnt regularly watching WWE at the time and I sadly dont remember keeping up with this feud.. With Brocks return and all the talk of a POSSIBLE ( I know its not in cement yet but the rumors are everywhere ) Taker/Lesnar match sometime in the future, I had to look back and watch the older matches of the two. 

The HIAC was fucking brutal. Jesus, this stands out for me as one of the most brutal matches aside from the Taker/Manking HIAC and some of the older 80's, 90's matches.. It looks like Taker wanted to put Brock over him that night, and looking back on it now I guess thats one thing that boosted Brock way up there. Thats one thing folks dont understand, how a character like Taker can choose to put someone over, but still choose to keep the streak intact at WM. 

The blood was all out sickening, I remember the Eddie Guerrero blade job deal, and I swear this one has to be right up there next to his. Hard to say whether Taker cut to deep, maybe just got unlucky and hit the wrong spot, or dug in a little extra for the fans.. 

ALSO the reversal at the end from the tombstone to the F5, how awesome of an ending. Imagine shit like that happening at a Lesnar/Taker WM match in the future, another reversal from tombstone to F5 with Taker KICKING OUT at last second. That match could set up to be totally awesome and monumental, especially since Brock might look like a legit threat to the streak this time, but with Taker looking unbeatable almost.. 

I doubt they would throw them in another HIAC, and honestly if they did it would come off pretty awkward since I highly doubt they would keep the match going in todays time if that much blood was spilling.. And of course I wouldnt wish for another blade job like that, especially with Taker older now.. But even minus the blood, they can really put on a good match and with WM 28's kickouts and nearfalls, I think this one could be a huge hit. Maybe Taker somehow counter a F5 into a Tombstone and have Brock kick out a couple times.. I know that may never happen again but I seriously think they could pull off a huge match in the future, even minus all the blood. The blood is definately a huge plus though and makes it seem so brutal, that match almost seemed un fucking real toward the end with all the blood pouring.. BTW, in the following vid the blood starts around 7:45 or so, for those of you who may not have seen it and would like to skip ahead to see what I mean by a hell of a bladejob..


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

The only problem I have with the Savage set is Maria and Striker doing the introducing matches, Striker is liveable with because you can tell he was a huge fan of Savage but Maria was awful, you could tell she'd never actually watched any of the stuff and you could constantly see her looking off to the side at cue cards.

Anyone would have been better than those two


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah lol, Maria was pretty fucking awful. But WWE like to use divas for something. They sure as hell can't wrestle :side:.

:lmao at the Slammy Awards on this Austin disc. "they're killing the clown, the clown is dying!"

Contemplating not removing the wrapping from the Divas Undressed DVD, since once SV sells out of it they aren't making any more copies, so it will become rare at some point.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Matt Striker should be WWE's most used staff member on TV, imo. The guy bleeds wrestling.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*

yeah that match was incredibly underrated , Taker's selling was pure gold during that match , loved every bit of it ..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Striker can be both really good and really fucking bad. "I'm marking out, bro" was fucking terrible at the RR that year. Especially considering he did it for Booker T. Urgh. 

His commentary really helped the Swagger/Christian match that I love so damn much. His more "intelligent" commentary explaining why Christian was selling the arm the way he was really made the match for me. Would be about **** without his commentary, and is about ****1/2 with commentary. I don't care who gets a DVD/Bluray first, that match NEEDS to be released.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

We talking about the Backlash '09 match? Because that match is great. (Y)

Striker's commentary on Superstars is really good. He puts everyone over and does it in a way that makes you feel like everyone means something.

Plus he can actually explain what's going on in the ring, unlike Cole. ~___~


----------



## ddp (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*

rememberer taker getting a lot of shtick for not jobbing to brock cleanly at unforgiven. if only they could see the grander plan a month earlier.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No lol. Backlash match was released. On the Backlash DVD. And I think on a Best of PPV for that year, right? 

I'm talking about their ECW match from 24/02/2009.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Oh lmao, wasn't even thinking when I posted that. ~_____~

Don't know if I've seen that match but I'll willing to check it out since I really enjoyed their matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had another really good match on ECW about 2 weeks before (I *think* it was the week after Christian returned). And then their PPV matches are all really good.


----------



## John_Sheena22 (Apr 19, 2012)

*Re: Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*

Best HIAC match ever? You guys agree?


----------



## @MrDrewFoley (Mar 17, 2012)

*Re: Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*

That match was a brilliant HIAC. Was it the first time they stayed in the cage or did Bossman and UT stay in the cell?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Just wanted to thank you guys for being the best damn posters in wrestlig anyone could want to talk to. Special ups go to my homeboy Cal who taught me everything, but that doesnt mean i didnt love talking to every single one of ya. All hail Double A Arn Anderson!

oh, and seeing this is a wrestling section post, i'll go through the usuals

ratings, buyrates, buried, rock, cena, 4 moves of death, no sell, superman, shoved down our throats, bring back attitude era, worst ppv/raw/burrito ever


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Thought the burrito was good. :argh:

You forgot that the casuals are already bored with Punk.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redeadening said:


> Just wanted to thank you guys for being the best damn posters in wrestlig anyone could want to talk to. Special ups go to my homeboy Cal who taught me everything, but that doesnt mean i didnt love talking to every single one of ya. All hail Double A Arn Anderson!
> 
> oh, and seeing this is a wrestling section post, i'll go through the usuals
> 
> ratings, buyrates, buried, rock, cena, 4 moves of death, no sell, superman, shoved down our throats, bring back attitude era, worst ppv/raw/burrito ever


Have you been drinking? :side:

I know I have.

WRESTLING~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Are these matches on any collections or would i have to track down the individual DVD's?:

Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker ((Hell In A Cell) No Mercy 2002) 
Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM XX
HBK and Taker at Bad Blood 97 (sure i saw this on an Undertaker set)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Are these matches on any collections or would i have to track down the individual DVD's?:
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker ((Hell In A Cell) No Mercy 2002)
> Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM XX
> HBK and Taker at Bad Blood 97 (sure i saw this on an Undertaker set)


You can get the HIAC matches on the HIAC Set. Which is awesome because there are a bunch of really fucking great HIAC matches. You can also get both on Undertaker's Tombstone set, which is my favourite DVD set ever (I'm biased to fuck though lol).

Triple threat to my knowledge isn't on anything but the WM XX DVD. Think it might have been on the Benoit DVD (makes sense), but you can only buy that pre-owned now since obviously they stopped production of it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> You can get the HIAC matches on the HIAC Set. Which is awesome because there are a bunch of really fucking great HIAC matches. You can also get both on Undertaker's Tombstone set, which is my favourite DVD set ever (I'm biased to fuck though lol).
> 
> Triple threat to my knowledge isn't on anything but the WM XX DVD. Think it might have been on the Benoit DVD (makes sense), but you can only buy that pre-owned now since obviously they stopped production of it.


(Y) Cheers mate, that HIAC set and the Undertaker one will be my next purchase when i get paid me thinks, thankyou!!!


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Re: Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*



Att-Era-Kanefan said:


> I know this match was years ago, but I wasnt regularly watching WWE at the time and I sadly dont remember keeping up with this feud.. With Brocks return and all the talk of a POSSIBLE ( I know its not in cement yet but the rumors are everywhere ) Taker/Lesnar match sometime in the future, I had to look back and watch the older matches of the two.
> 
> The HIAC was fucking brutal. Jesus, this stands out for me as one of the most brutal matches aside from the Taker/Manking HIAC and some of the older 80's, 90's matches.. It looks like Taker wanted to put Brock over him that night, and looking back on it now I guess thats one thing that boosted Brock way up there. Thats one thing folks dont understand, how a character like Taker can choose to put someone over, but still choose to keep the streak intact at WM.
> 
> ...












You can't even see his face..brutal match.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Are these matches on any collections or would i have to track down the individual DVD's?:
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker ((Hell In A Cell) No Mercy 2002)
> Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM XX
> HBK and Taker at Bad Blood 97 (sure i saw this on an Undertaker set)


http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/Hell-in-a-Cell-DVD-3-Discs.html

That set has both the Hell in a Cell matches you are after on, Not sure if the triple threat is on any set


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

*Re: Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*



robertdeniro said:


> You can't even see his face..brutal match.


It was such a brutal match, the state of the ring afterwards covered in blood was unreal


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What does everyone think of the Smackdown Elimination Chamber in 2011? I was watching it earlier on the Edge dvd I would give it an 8/10. That last spear made me jump out of my seat.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Phil_Mc_90 said:


> http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/Hell-in-a-Cell-DVD-3-Discs.html
> 
> That set has both the Hell in a Cell matches you are after on, Not sure if the triple threat is on any set


Thankyou mate (Y)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SD 11' EC is epic. McIntyre is awesome and as a whole the match is wonderful. I have it 4th on my list after Raw '08, Raw '09 and Raw '05.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

McIntyre totally stole the show in the SD 2011 Elimination Chamber, it came from nowhere as well, great performance. The match as a whole was really good

For me the original Chamber at Survior Series 2002 stands as the best just because everything was new, jericho had a great performance, Kane was a beast, HHH did most of the match unable to breath properly and it had a great ending with Michaels winning the title (although his tights were horrendous that night!)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I literally ONLY remember McIntyre from that EC match. NYR 05 is still my favourite. 02 one is really good but I get bored as shit with HHH/Y2J Vs HBK at the end, and Booker T is just terrible and should never have been in the match imo .


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I understand where you're coming from with Booker, he really didn't anything to the match. 
I'd forgotten about NYR, might rewatch that later because I can't really remember it


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Summerslam 1998

Triple H vs. The Rock - ****1/4
Stone Cold vs. The Undertaker - ***3/4

Really dug the two main events. You had guys at the top level on this show with Trips and Rocky just about breaking through the main event caliber. There was something about Taker/Austin which I loved. I thought the pace was immense, really dug the booking, nice table spot and with no help from Kane. Would of hit the full 4 if the ending was better but it came off as sudden and was over in a flash. Helped the feud develop though.

Don't have star ratings for the rest of the show from memory but it's an attitude era show that sticks out in memory as its a lovely, polished show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Summerslam 1998

Triple H vs. The Rock - ***
Stone Cold vs. The Undertaker - **

HHH/Rock bored me mostly, and I thought Undertaker/Austin was total trash. Sloppy brawling, botches... and that was the match .


----------



## Kevokay (Nov 9, 2011)

*Wrestling DVD's*

Where do people on this forum get their wrestling DVD's from? Does anyone make DVD collections to sell?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I know, it's weird. A lot of people think its sloppy but I was watching it and actually getting really into it, I loved it. Felt it flowed nicely with the ring work then into the crowd then a table spot ready for the finish. I was a little pissed when it suddenly ended but overall found it enjoyable.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Wrestling DVD's*

Silvervision.co.uk for the most part.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

My thoughts on a few things:

1] Mayweather-Show = Not sure I ever saw this match. (Cody showing Big Show clips was my first time seeing a ton of that.) Having celebs on the show is usually fine, & even in matches... But at Wrestlemania?! Ultimate stupid. (Though no complaints about this year's tag.)

2] Miz headlining Mania = Was a fan of his on the MTV "Challenge" shows before WWE ever signed him. That said, never thought he deserved the belt, nor to headline the "biggest show of the year". (I understand a "night of Champions" or something, but the Title match is not necessarily your main event... Like this year's Mania.)

3] I agree it is too early for Bryan or Ryder DVD, & especially Sheamus. (Title means nothing in that case.) I still find I enjoy some of "Word Life", though I also felt that was too early. (Later ones seem over-packed, on the other hand.) That said, anyone waiting for DVDs of Regal or Christian? Don't hold your breath.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Platt said:


> Shaun Blackford is a complete douche bag who talks a load of bollocks the majority of the time.


He comes off very full of himself thats for sure. Has a pretty sweet dvd collection but yeah talks a lot of shit. Stevie Breech is annoying IMHO.



Phil_Mc_90 said:


> Silver Vision is amazing, been watching the Savage set over the last few days, the guy was simply incredible, He'd never been in my top 5 of all time but now from watching even more of his stuff he is easily in there. The MegaPowers feud was brilliant and he even got a good match out of Ultimate Warrior!


Totally agree. 

Has been and always will be my fav dvd set. I have only purchased two DVD sets soon after they came out and for full price....the Macho set and the newest Rock one....that one I had a little bit left on a best buy gift card as well. 

Anyway....As for Macho's WCW run it was not very good (in ring wise) but I was not a very huge WCW guy past like 96. I think a lot of those guys got big paydays and half assed it in the ring. 

I think Striker does a pretty good job on that set tbh. 

As for Maria yeah she is not very good at the whole host thing but she is my all-time fav diva. Based 100% on looks. I would do dirty, filthy, nasty things to her. Like....ummm....ummm...make her clean my garage. Ya....thats totally what Im thinking about.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rewatched the first half of WM XXVIII today with a friend that just came home from Germany and managed to keep away from the results. Figured I'd give my ratings again.

Sheamus/Bryan - gtfo (my friend was so pissed)
Orton/Kane - ***1/4
Rhodes/Show - *1/2
Divas match - one skid mark outta five
Taker/Trips - ****3/4


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What does everyone think of the Smackdown Elimination Chamber in 2011? I was watching it earlier on the Edge dvd I would give it an 8/10. That last spear made me jump out of my seat.


McIntyre was pretty fuckin awesome and the finishing sequence between Edge and Mysterio was great as well. I'd say it's about ****1/2.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What does everyone think of the Smackdown Elimination Chamber in 2011? I was watching it earlier on the Edge dvd I would give it an 8/10. That last spear made me jump out of my seat.


McIntyre stole the show. He was easily the highlight of that Chamber match IMO and that would've been a great place to begin the rebuild of Drew McIntyre turning him into a legit threat going forward, but it ultimately led to nothing, which is dumb on WWE's part. McIntyre showed what he was capable of in that match.


----------



## The Pied Piper (Apr 6, 2011)

Word said:


> Summerslam 1998
> 
> Triple H vs. The Rock - ****1/4
> *Stone Cold vs. The Undertaker - ***3/4*
> ...


Were the dead crowds enjoyable to watch in that match? Did all the botches escape you? Was the slow pace of that match so good to watch?



KingCal said:


> Summerslam 1998
> 
> Triple H vs. The Rock - ***
> *Stone Cold vs. The Undertaker - ***
> ...


I agree with this, I'm so sick of many people saying Taker/Austin at SS 98 was legendary. It's more overrated than Taker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 right now. It's the one epic fail match many people seem to avoid admitting.


----------



## The Pied Piper (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar HIAC--WOW*



Rocky Mark said:


> yeah that match was incredibly underrated , Taker's selling was pure gold during that match , loved every bit of it ..


Ehm, I wouldn't say it's underrated. With the praise it's getting all over, it's more like overrated, IMO. The last half of the match was practically Brock making Taker his bitch in every sense (not that I think it was bad for pushing Brock). The first half is decent, but the last half is just a glorified squash match.

I think both Taker & Brock have had better matches with other performers since, but some of them got completely left out of mention. From Taker's HIAC alone, his HIAC match with Batista, Edge, and Triple H are better than the one with Brock. Especially with Triple H, real drama and storytelling the match with Brock definitely lacks.

I have no idea how they can follow Taker/HHH should Taker/Brock is booked next year. Brock's in-ring psychology is mediocre.

P.S: Sorry for double post.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

The Pied Piper said:


> Were the dead crowds enjoyable to watch in that match? Did all the botches escape you? Was the slow pace of that match so good to watch?
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this, I'm so sick of many people saying Taker/Austin at SS 98 was legendary. It's more overrated than Taker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 right now. It's the one epic fail match many people seem to avoid admitting.


I don't care about crowds, that doesn't affect my rating. Like I said I enjoyed the slow pace and overall enjoyed the match. I never said Taker/Austin was legendary, I don't think anyone has rated it **** or above here. It's a match I enjoyed watching, Im not failing the admit anything. If you like it, give it the rating you think it deserves.

Seeing as your so sick, I hope you get better soon.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What does everyone think of the Smackdown Elimination Chamber in 2011? I was watching it earlier on the Edge dvd I would give it an 8/10. That last spear made me jump out of my seat.


One of my favorite EC Match of all time. I guess it's just behind survivor series 2002 (because of the story and emotion of this match) but it's clearly number 2. The last minutes between edge and mysterio are priceless. Number 3 would be New year's revolution 2005 (just watch HHH'pedigree on bloody jericho, best sold pedigree eveeeer !! )


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What does everyone think of the Smackdown Elimination Chamber in 2011? I was watching it earlier on the Edge dvd I would give it an 8/10. That last spear made me jump out of my seat.


A great chamber match. The best thing about it is that everyone and everything worked well. From Drew McIntyre being the young hungry guy raring to go, to Barrett and Big Show's little rivalry that they carried into the chamber, to Kane being that guy dominating anyone and anyone with those sick uppercuts, and to Edge and Mysterio being the first two and the last two. Everyone picks up the slack in it. And yeah, I agree, the last little exchange between Edge and Mysterio was excellent.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

*WCW - World War 3 1995*

*1. TV Title*
DDP vs Johnny B Badd
***

2. Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs Big Bubba Rogers
*

3. Cutie Suzuki & Mayumi Ozaki vs Akira Hokuto & Bull Nakano
***1/4

*4. United States Title*
Chris Benoit vs Kensuke Sasaki
**3/4

5. Randy Savage vs Lex Luger
*

6. Sting vs Ric Flair
***1/2

*7. World War III Match*
**1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The one thing that annoys me with some of the WWE DVD's, like the WCW Nitro Set, is the pointless borders on either side of the screen


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They are there because the DVD's are released in Widescreen but the footage is not. They go away automatically on most DVD players, bluray players I understand have to be messed about with to get rid of them (never tried), and on the PC they are there too, never tried to get rid of them though lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> They are there because the DVD's are released in Widescreen but the footage is not.


Ah, never thought of that lol, just watching *The Best of Raw - 15th Anniversary DVD (4 Discs)*, only on Disc 1 atm, some memories, like 123 kid's title shot vs Bret!!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I mentioned a while back how I had borrowed the entire 2003 PPV year to keep me occupied during study breaks over the next few weeks. I've decided to watch HHH's entire year, God save me lol, and kicked things off with the Rumble and NWO last night. Some preliminary notes, ring wise this is Trips absolute worst year. I think he was way too big when he came back from injury in 2002 and it really restricted his agility and thus his abilities in the ring. Throw on to that the fact that he was injured for pretty much the whole year and his opponents weren't exactly stellar and well, it's pretty much a recipe for disaster lol. I will say this though, he was injured, not at his best by a long shot and worked with Scott Steiner, Booker T, Kevin Nash, Goldberg and fucking Kane for the year. I'd like to see who would be able to produce the goods with that lot lol. Even 00-01 HHH would have struggled with that, haha. Alright, excuses over lol. Here we go.


*Royal Rumble 2003
World Heavyweight Championship
Triple H(c) w/Ric Flair vs. Scott Steiner*

_Not really much to say on the actual match itself here. Truly horrible tbh. Disjointed, plodding, repetitive, just bad and actually dangerous. There was a clothesline botch and a neckbreaker botch, both of which looked horrible. But then there was a God awful underhook powerbomb botch that could have landed HHH right on his damn head. I think there were around 10 belly to belly suplexes in this thing too which the fans didn’t seem to like at all. Speaking of which, I’m surprised the fans didn’t crap all over this tbh. For whatever reason, they seemed to reserve that for Steiner. I’m not quite sure why this happened. Heading in the fans seemed to be fully on Steiner’s side iirc. Then they pull a 180, cheer for HHH, boo Steiner’s offence and heavily boo him at the end when he celebrates. I don’t get it. The only thing I can think of is something they kept mentioning when it was over. JR/King had never seen HHH so scared etc etc. So he can stand up to and kick the asses of Rock, Austin, Taker, Foley, HBK etc but he can’t with Steiner? They turned him into a chickenshit heel and had him try to end the match using chickenshit heel tactics which HHH never did before, not to that extent anyways. When watching it I couldn’t help but think he was acting the way Miz would act and it was just fucking stupid and overall had a very strange vibe to the whole thing. Best thing about this was Ric Flair. Outright fucking horrible match tbh which was only made worse by the classic Angle/Benoit put on after it._

I give it ** 1/2*. * for the simple fact that they went out and put together a match, 1/4 for the blade job and 1/4 for Flair.

*No Way Out 2003
World Heavyweight Championship
Triple H(c) w/Ric Flair vs. Scott Steiner*

_The rematch, ugh. We’re in Canada for this one and the fans once again turn this thing on its head. :lmao at the heat Steiner gets for doing the figure four. This is like a damn Cena match today with the fans booing the face, cheering the heel and then in true ‘bizarro land’ fashion, directing ‘You Screwed Bret’ chants to the heel also although I don’t know if they were for HHH or Hebner lol. This time the fans did shit on the match with scattered boring chants here and there and I really can’t say I blame them. Again the match is slow, disjointed, repetitive and just plain crap. Basically the same as the Rumble match but without the botches and less suplexes. There isn’t really much else to say tbh. _

I give it **1/2* too. * again for the fact that they actually went out and put together a match, 1/4 for Flair again and 1/4 for the fans this time.​
Yup, I basically talked about everything that went on there besides the actual matches themselves because there isn't anything to talk about. Shitty matches and a shitty start to the year. I know they don't get too much better but honestly, they'd have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get any worse lol. Next will be Mania and Backlash.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

The only good thing about Triple H is 2003 was his match with Booker T at Wrestlemania, I really enjoyed that. To save you from boredom, I would just watch everything Smackdown, that was consistently good with Cena, Taker, Lesnar, Show, Angle, Eddie, Rey and Benoit.

I must say though Extreme Rules is the only PPV I've cared about since MITB. Built up the matches pretty good from Mania, could be really interesting tonight.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I must really be in the minority but I thought HHH's run in 2003 was brilliant, he was so hated it was unreal, every week I tuned in thinking ok this is the week he's finally going to lose the belt, The Kevin Nash feud was a waste though and should have been replaced by him continuing to feud with Booker, at the time I enjoyed his feud with Goldberg although I'm not sure how I would feel about it now


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I find it hard to enjoy someone's run when they have crappy matches all the time . Good stuff with Booker T at WM. Then yeah. That was kinda it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think the Steiner matches are some of the worst HHH matches at least during his main event run (2000-present). I think the match with Booker was very good, can't remember what his match was at Backlash that year. Nash/HHH, while a poor cell match was still a decent enough bout when not remembering it's a cell match. Summerslam was the EC and I do think it was on the lower end of the spectrum of EC's... but HHH wasn't even involved in most of it so I wouldn't put that on him. It was just booked to be a glorified Goldberg multi-squash match until HHH did the squashing at the end with a single sledge hammer shot from what I recall. The HHH/Goldberg series isn't anything good, but I think it was as decent as it was going to be. The Goldberg/Kane/HHH match was alright as well.

Some TV matches I vaguely remember are his matches against Kane (where Kane took the mask off after), RVD the week or two after, and then there was the Flair match in the mix somewhere where Flair turned face for like a couple of weeks, and from what I remember, those were some decent matches that were all better than the majority of his PPV bouts that year. Then of course there is the HBK/HHH match at the end of the year on Raw which was fantastic. 

I'm not sure what's worse personally for HHH. 02 or 03? His matches against Jericho at Mania and in the cell were subpar at best, Angle matches were alright but nothing great, his match with Hogan was abysmal at Backlash, his match with Taker was awful at KOTR, but then from Summerslam onwards he had a classic with a returning HBK, was a big part in the first and best EC, had a couple decent PPV bouts with RVD and Kane, but then of course the 3SOH with Shawn was fucking awful.

2002 considering the talent HHH had to work with, I think his match resume was very subpar and never exceeded what should've been expectations. HHH's matches in 03, while worse, I think he did get more out of what he could get out of what he was given, despite them overall not being too good.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

You may have enjoyed his segments, promos whatever on RAW but I don't think you could honestly enjoy his matches that year on PPV. I buy the excuse that the competition was shit. Put anyone in their prime and try wrestle against the golden oldies, it's not gonna happen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wonder how HHH in his prime would have done in 02/03.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Standard of opponents and the fact he had a quad injury if I'm not mistaken has to be taken into account, could anyone have a stellar year working with Steiner, Nash, Goldberg? 
It was mostly his character work that I enjoyed in 2003 but his matches weren't as bad as some people make out imo.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Would of been exactly the same imo. 

2000

Rock
Benoit
Angle
Austin
Foley
Jericho

2002

Steiner
Kane
RVD
Jericho
Booker T
Nash

Not only that but in 2000 all those guys were pretty much in their prime too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He might have been able to do something a little better had he been in his prime when working those guys in 02/03.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Why do people hat the HHH/HBK 3SoH match so much? I haven't watched it since like 5 years and don't really know anymore all the stuff that happens there, so can somebody please explain why it's so bad?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think he would have done better ring wise but not by a lot tbh. I don't think anybody would have been able to have a stellar year feuding with these guys for the majority of it, no less injured as well. I'm not excusing him but it is something to consider. The actual storylines weren't atrocious by any means. All that posedown and push up contest shut with Steiner was actually rather enjoyable when you take it for what it is lol. But his ringwork that year IS atrocious for all the reasons already discussed. I do intend to go back and watch all the good stuff afterwards btw. I just thought I'd do HHH's year first and get the shit out of the way lol. 

As for 02 vs. 03, I'd say 02 was definitely better, if not for the matches but for the return, the Rumble win etc etc. He had stuff to actually work with there and was hot as hell at the start of the year. Then by the Summer he had HBK to work with and the beginnings of Evolution towards the end of the year. 03 he literally had shit to work with and because he wasn't at 100%, he wasn't able to offset the shitness if that makes sense lol.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Because of this discussion I went back and watched HHH v Goldberg from Unforgiven
By no means is this a terrible match

Get the negatives out of the way first - Goldberg didn't sell the sledgehammer at all and only sold the leg beatdown for about a minute and the crowd weren't amazing 

On the positive side though, they told a story; Goldberg being the powerhouse and HHH trying to keep him off his feet and attacking the legs, there were some good power exchanges and a great spear reversal by HHH

I'd give it ***1/2, nowhere near the greatest match that has ever been but also nowhere near a dud match

One thing that hurt the match imo were the stipulations because it was obvious from the beginning who was winning


----------



## SuperBrawl (Jan 9, 2006)

I love how Flair existing makes those Steiner matches better.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

You guys need to check out The Miz vs Alex Riley from the recent Superstars. Think I may be becoming a Riley fan after that great performance.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*The Twisted, Distubed Life of Kane* - Disc 3

*No Disqualification Match*: Shawn Michaels vs. Kane - ***1/4

*No Holds Barred Match*: Kane vs. Gene Snitsky - **1/4

*Steel Cage Match*: Kane vs. Edge - ***1/2

*Stretcher Match*: Kane vs. Edge - ***1/4

Kane vs. Umaga - *3/4

The Undertaker & Kane vs. King Booker & Finlay - ***

Kane vs. King Booker - ***

*Belfast Brawl*: Kane vs. Finlay - ***1/2

*Champion vs. Champion*: The Undertaker vs. Kane - **1/4


Really fun set. I love Kane is always put in grudge feuds that utilize different stipulation matches: w/ Edge, Gene Snitsky, MVP, etc. The series with Edge was so much fun. I love their Vengeance '05 match, but I had no idea the cage match was such a blast. The stretcher match is a nice blow-off, too. Their four matches in 2005 were a great little series.

Wish they had chosen another match with Umaga: this one was short and pointless. 

The Belfast Brawl completely surprised me. It's almost twice as long as their SummerSlam match and so much fun. Great psychology by Finlay, great brawling, weapons, and I was genunitely surprised by the ending. No surprise that the best match involved Finlay.

The match with UT is a nice bonus, but unfortunately, it ends literally as soon as it gets going. They were clearly building up to something, but I guess since they were both faces, WWE didn't want them getting too brutal. Good way to get over the heels by having them interrupt a match before it really starts. Still nice to see them wrestle as faces, and even cooler to see it ten years after their first match, and rounding out the set.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RevolverSnake said:


> Why do people hat the HHH/HBK 3SoH match so much? I haven't watched it since like 5 years and don't really know anymore all the stuff that happens there, so can somebody please explain why it's so bad?


Watched it a week or two ago. Excellent match, I didn't know people hated it. Not what it could have been but it was a fun match. One of the best spots has to be Shawn hitting HHH with the barbwire that's set on fire and then the crowd chants "HOLY SHIT!". The involvement of Ric Flair was pretty funny, though. On the steel cage part, it was so obvious that he was setting up tables for a spot saved for the ladder part at the end.

Just DLed Edge's DVD, gotta check it out soon!


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> You guys need to check out The Miz vs Alex Riley from the recent Superstars. Think I may be becoming a Riley fan after that great performance.


I caught the tail end of that, but honestly I was too shell-shocked by the fact that the man that main evented last year's Wrestlemania was literally main-eventing Superstars. Against an opponent that has has weight, no less; there's substance in a Miz vs Alex Riley match, and there it is, on Superstars.

But it's the same with me, I did wonder why people hated on Riley for his ring skills back when he was relevant. He did a lovely job. 


Soon I think I'll (re)watch the matches on the new Edge set. There are some favourites of mine on there and I wonder how they'll hold up because it's been a long time since I've watched them. Would have really loved to see his Ric Flair ladder match on here, but apparently they were really pressed for time on this set. Oh well.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Despite being a huge Triple H mark from back in the day, his matches in 2003 were generally so bad that even I began to kind of tire of him to an extent, but that was a rather terrible year overall and especially on Raw with all of the old, nearly immobile WCW guys going up against Triple H at probably his worst in-ring condition for almost the whole damned year. It's interesting that one of the better matches was at Wrestlemania XIX against Booker T, for a variety of reasons: (a) it's always been shit on for the finish; (b) both guys, Booker in general and Triple H at this time, were largely reliant on the work of their opponent, and yet they both actually meshed rather well in the ring; (c) it was almost treated like a midcard match at Wrestlemania that year while Rock/Austin, Hogan/McMahon and to a lesser extent Lesnar/Angle and Jericho/Michaels all kind of overshadowed it, even with it being for Raw's world championship.

As for the question posed by *KingCal*, I think the Triple H of 2000 could have practically had at least a very watchable match with almost anybody. The guy worked miracles that year; everyone lists his PPV work, and rightly so, but some forget his TV work. I don't think anybody ever quite made Rikishi look like a million bucks in a one-on-one match the way Triple H did with apparent ease. I still remember Triple H working a match with Bob Holly on Sunday Night Heat at that time. Not to say Holly was some kind of awful worker or anything but Trips put on a hell of a match with him. He even worked the miracle of getting something decent on TV out of Billy Gunn, I think in the first couple months of 2001? His match with TAKA stands as something of a mini-classic, haha.

I'm sure the Triple H of that time period, pre-quad tear, would have at least yielded something _okay_, even out of Scott freakin' Steiner (although he would have had to bump like an SOB for him, but still). That's how supreme Trips was in the ring in 2000-first five months of 2001 before the quad tear. Trips in 2002-2003 was just too heavy. As much as I admire and love him as a performer, I honestly believe he actually improved most dramatically after the second quad tear. He came back lighter, more mobile and was suddenly much more like the Triple H pre-first quad tear. That isn't to say he didn't put on some fine, even classic matches during that very long stretch of time between quad tears, because he did, but it really did take that Raw match with HBK to close out an otherwise underwhelming 2003 for Triple H to start to come back in the ring. He then put on some damned good matches with guys like Shelton Benjamin, HBK and Benoit which at least gave him some "mojo" back.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I just watched Cena vs Batista WM 26 for the first time and I'm really surprised that I enjoyed this match. I really, really, really enjoyed this match- A LOT. There was some great back and forth action and the crowd really made it special as well. They were hot throughout and were really into it.

I gotta give it to these two, they went out there and delivered a hell of a performance. After watching this match, I don't know how anyone could say Cena and Batista are terrible in ring workers. Here we have the two supposedly worst in ring main event workers delivering one of the night's and possibly year's most exciting matches. There was no CM Punk carry Cena or any Undertaker to Batista. These were the two guys who supposedly needed someone to carry them to a good match yet somehow despite their shitty ability to structure a match with anyone but one of the GOATs, they delivered.

I'm not going to lie though. There were tons of botches in this match. Most notably the DDT by Batista, Cena fumbling to get Batista up in the AA after a series of reversals and the badly timed spinebuster when Cena jumped off the rope. But given the size of both men, I don't think there's any other way to do it but botching. I'm not defending it but I'm just saying it if were a Rey Mysterio or heck even a CM Punk flying off the top rope, I'm pretty sure Batista would have caught them easily.

Anyway, why it wasn't the best hold for hold match it did tell a damn great story and had some of the best false finishers I've ever seen. 

****3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

DesolationRow said:


> Despite being a huge Triple H mark from back in the day, his matches in 2003 were generally so bad that even I began to kind of tire of him to an extent, but that was a rather terrible year overall and especially on Raw with all of the old, nearly immobile WCW guys going up against Triple H at probably his worst in-ring condition for almost the whole damned year. It's interesting that one of the better matches was at Wrestlemania XIX against Booker T, for a variety of reasons: (a) it's always been shit on for the finish; (b) both guys, Booker in general and Triple H at this time, were largely reliant on the work of their opponent, and yet they both actually meshed rather well in the ring; (c) it was almost treated like a midcard match at Wrestlemania that year while Rock/Austin, Hogan/McMahon and to a lesser extent Lesnar/Angle and Jericho/Michaels all kind of overshadowed it, even with it being for Raw's world championship.
> 
> As for the question posed by *KingCal*, I think the Triple H of 2000 could have practically had at least a very watchable match with almost anybody. The guy worked miracles that year; everyone lists his PPV work, and rightly so, but some forget his TV work. I don't think anybody ever quite made Rikishi look like a million bucks in a one-on-one match the way Triple H did with apparent ease. I still remember Triple H working a match with Bob Holly on Sunday Night Heat at that time. Not to say Holly was some kind of awful worker or anything but Trips put on a hell of a match with him. He even worked the miracle of getting something decent on TV out of Billy Gunn, I think in the first couple months of 2001? His match with TAKA stands as something of a mini-classic, haha.
> 
> I'm sure the Triple H of that time period, pre-quad tear, would have at least yielded something _okay_, even out of Scott freakin' Steiner (although he would have had to bump like an SOB for him, but still). That's how supreme Trips was in the ring in 2000-first five months of 2001 before the quad tear. Trips in 2002-2003 was just too heavy. As much as I admire and love him as a performer, I honestly believe he actually improved most dramatically after the second quad tear. He came back lighter, more mobile and was suddenly much more like the Triple H pre-first quad tear. That isn't to say he didn't put on some fine, even classic matches during that very long stretch of time between quad tears, because he did, but it really did take that Raw match with HBK to close out an otherwise underwhelming 2003 for Triple H to start to come back in the ring. He then put on some damned good matches with guys like Shelton Benjamin, HBK and Benoit which at least gave him some "mojo" back.


I can't comment on the TV matches from 2000-2001 as I really don't know/remember a lot of them as I probably haven't watched them since they aired if at all. I will say though while his PPV matches were classic and I'm not trying to discount his work in 2000, look at who he was facing throughout the year. Foley who in the environment he (HHH) worked with him in is a master in the ring. Rock and HHH have always had some of the best in ring chemistry so no surprise even with Rock not being that great in ring, they pulled out the classics they did. Jericho has always been a top notch worker. Then there's Angle, Benoit, both great technical wrestlers. 

So I think it's something to think about. I'm not saying anyone could've produced the same quality of matches under the circumstances HHH had in 2000, but he had a hell of a lot of great people to work with. 2002-2003 was like the polar opposite of 2000-2001. The former he was terrible and worked with terrible wrestlers for the most part, while the latter he was great in the ring and worked with great wrestlers/people he had great chemistry with.

Like I said, can't comment on TV matches.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I just watched Cena vs Batista WM 26 for the first time and I'm really surprised that I enjoyed this match. I really, really, really enjoyed this match- A LOT. There was some great back and forth action and the crowd really made it special as well. They were hot throughout and were really into it.
> 
> I gotta give it to these two, they went out there and delivered a hell of a performance. After watching this match, I don't know how anyone could say Cena and Batista are terrible in ring workers. Here we have the two supposedly worst in ring main event workers delivering one of the night's and possibly year's most exciting matches. There was no CM Punk carry Cena or any Undertaker to Batista. These were the two guys who supposedly needed someone to carry them to a good match yet somehow despite their shitty ability to structure a match with anyone but one of the GOATs, they delivered.
> 
> ...


 I actually watched this again a couple of days ago, and enjoyed it a lot more than I used to. I think my problem was that it seemed to have no middle. It was all build up and finishers. I didn't like the fact that it was only 13 1/2 minutes long. Batista vs. John Cena for the WWE Title should be epic, not play second banana to UT/HBK. They could have gone another five minutes and it wouldn't have deflated the crowd any.

However, this really is an impressive match given the competitors. The story of power vs. wrestling early on was very nice, Batista was such a good heel, and as botchy as that ddt was, it played perfectly into the match.

The finishing sequence is really great. Batista countering the AA into a batista bomb, Cena first countering the batista bomb into an stf, Cena countering the powerslam into HUGE AA, and the genius of Cena rolling out of the BB into an stf. I wasn't big on Cena making Batista submit, but no finish could have been better.

For a junior main event, I enjoyed this a lot more, maybe even more than their SummerSlam match.

I mostly agree: ***1/2


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

just watched HBK vs John Cena at wrestlemania 23

i think it was a better match then some people think, it had all the aspects you need for a good main event on one hand you have john cena, the superstar of the wwe, WWE Champion the man at the time( and still on top of the company to this day) he never quits, against The showstopper Mr Wrestlemania Shawn Michaels.

i thought at one point shawn was actually going go over with the win, but i then rethought and it makes sense, Trips put Cena over the year before so im assuming shawn thought just like everyone else that cena is that guy to take the wwe higher and he wanted to pull a great match with cena, the ending was perfect imo having cena tap shawn out to the stfu the same move that trips lost to, and im not a cena mark or anything but when he lifted that title at the end of the night and pyro going off what a way to end wrestlemania, the match had high flying , brawling just a good match in general

id say: *** 1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Extreme Rules = PPV of the Year

Orton vs. Kane - ***1/2
Cody vs. Show - Lot of fun, love the result
Bryan vs. Sheamus - ****1/4
Punk vs. Jericho - ****
Brock vs. Cena - TOO AWESOME FOR STARS


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Excited to watch this show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ER Ratings (first watch):

1) Kane vs. Orton- Need to rewatch, wasn't paying much attention. It looked like a fun match, but not sure on a rating.

2) Rhodes vs. Show- Once again, need to rewatch. Wasn't paying much attention.

3) Bryan vs. Sheamus- ****- Excellent match. Loved the action, psychology, and the crowd was great as well which is always a nice plus. The ending was a bit bland but overall a great match.

4)Clay vs. Ziggler- *- Meh, better than I expected. Still bad though.

5) Punk vs. Jericho- ****1/4- MOTN, MOTY thus far, and tops their match for that at Mania. Just an awesome, pretty brutal match (that was actually outshined in brutality by the next match) that was a nice end to this Punk/Jericho drunk angle. Good shit.

6) Lesnar vs. Cena- ****- I loved the match, but hated the end. This match felt very real, it was very hard hitting, and Lesnar was looking like the unstoppable monster he was built up as throughout. Then the ending happened, and that was all thrown out the window. Still though the match was a lot of fun and damn Cena's arm looked fucked up... not to mention his head gushing blood. It was as real as you're going to get in WWE I think... besides the ending which as I said, was ridiculous.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Fucking awesome PPV, with a FANTASTIC trio of main events.

I'm seriously considering giving the full five to Punk/Jericho, but then again, I'm generally really generous with my snowflakes. 

EDIT: FUCK WE STILL DON'T HAVE THE TONGUE SMILEY BACK YET?


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

is it just me or did sheamus not sell the arm injury enough?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I hought he did pretty well. He really didn't have a whole lot of opportunities though, but you'll notice he never beat his chest with his left arm late in the match. Kept it tucked to his side. I just love how well Sheamus performs in big time matches. Hell in a Cell vs. Orton, Ladder match vs. Morrison, and now this. I love that guy. And Bryan, my god. Looked like Bryan Danielson from old out there.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm not saying he no sold it he just have could done more^^
Still a big motyc


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Extreme Rules:
Pre-Show: Santino Marella (c) vs. The Miz - **
Falls Count Anywhere: Randy Orton vs. Kane - ***1/4
Brodus Clay vs. Dolph Ziggler - *1/2
Tables: Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show (c) - **1/2
2/3 Falls; World Championship: Sheamus (c) vs. Daniel Bryan - ****1/2
Ryback vs. Jobbers - DUD
Street Fight; WWE Championship: CM Punk (c) vs. Chris Jericho - ****1/4
Divas Championship: Layla vs. Nikki Bella (c) - didn't watch
Extreme Rules: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar - ****1/4

I may be overrating Bryan/Sheamus a bit, but this was my match of the night. It was hard and heavy action for 25 minutes and I loved every second of it.


----------



## rushway (Apr 30, 2012)

Really very interesting and informative forum for discussion. I like it.


----------



## Anguyen92 (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, after watching Extreme Rules, I really liked Bryan/Sheamus two out of three falls a lot, and I'm willing to give it best match of the show credentials. Punk/Jericho, honestly, I did not enjoy it as much as the WM match, but it was still pretty enjoyable and they got everything that was needed out of that match, plus they had the hot crowd that they did not have in the first 15 min of their WM match.

For Cena/Lesnar, I guess I'm in the minority here, because I just don't like the match as well as everyone else here. Sure, Brock looked like a major beast and he gave Cena the worst beating that Cena has ever had. However, I was just plain bored out of my mind, in the middle, which is odd because it has been a long time since I was really bored of a main event, and I did not have a live discussion thread at my poker forum, as I would usually do to fill up the boredom, since the forum was closed temporarily for various reasons. 

Plus, I hate the ending for some reason. It just felt a tad too much SuperCena for me.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Obis said:


> I can't comment on the TV matches from 2000-2001 as I really don't know/remember a lot of them as I probably haven't watched them since they aired if at all. I will say though while his PPV matches were classic and I'm not trying to discount his work in 2000, look at who he was facing throughout the year. Foley who in the environment he (HHH) worked with him in is a master in the ring. Rock and HHH have always had some of the best in ring chemistry so no surprise even with Rock not being that great in ring, they pulled out the classics they did. Jericho has always been a top notch worker. Then there's Angle, Benoit, both great technical wrestlers.
> 
> So I think it's something to think about. I'm not saying anyone could've produced the same quality of matches under the circumstances HHH had in 2000, but he had a hell of a lot of great people to work with. 2002-2003 was like the polar opposite of 2000-2001. The former he was terrible and worked with terrible wrestlers for the most part, while the latter he was great in the ring and worked with great wrestlers/people he had great chemistry with.
> 
> Like I said, can't comment on TV matches.


I've heard this a lot of times and...

Foley had arguably the greatest match of his career. That Iron Man match against the Rock is unreal. Jericho's probably never had such a decorated match after that. The Benoit match is perhaps the best pure wrestling match from the entire attitude era. Then you have Undertaker who had--what could be--his best non-gimmick match up until that point. Let's not even talk of the 3 Stages of Hell match--a caliber of match Austin hadn't delivered since dancing with Bret Hart.

It sums it up pretty well. Hunter's "caliber" of opponents was stellar in 2000, but the stellar list included Foley who was at the end of his career; the Rock who was just starting to cut it as a wrestler; Angle who wasn't in his 2001-2003 mode yet and Angle isn't a technical wrestler for the last time. The remaining wrestlers are Austin, Jericho, and Benoit, if we talk strictly on PPV terms. It was the first time Jericho had such a match in WWE; for Austin it was THE match that catapulted him into being the old Austin again, and Benoit is Benoit. I'm not even including the TV matches.

The catalogue of matches is incredible. The opponents he had are from a different league as compared to what he had in 2002/2003, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and assume that Triple H was wrestling demigods during that period. I understand you're merely provoking a possibility, but it's really strange that after so many years, people are still stuck on this.

In 2002, he was awful and in 2003 he was consistently having bad matches. Those are two bad years for Hunter as a wrestler, but personally, I enjoyed that period most, only after 1999-2001 due to the whole Evolution story-line. From 2004 onward, except the Batista and Flair feuds, as a character, I stopped finding Triple H impressive. His ringwork has always been good since then.

For me, the storylines are what make or break a wrestling match. That's the reason I watch/used to watch WWE/wrestling. The programs, feuds, and psychologies behind the match is what makes the match a contest. I'd find no point in watching a match where there is no feud and back story to it; I'd rather watch real sports in such a case. That is something wrestling has over any other physically intense show/sport/contest.

For the heck of it, Hunter's best matches in the 2002/2003 period: :|

_- SummerSlam 2002 vs. Michaels ~ **** 3/4
- WrestleMania XIX vs. Booker T ~ *** 3/4
- Raw (somewhere in May) vs. Flair ~ *** 1/2 (it's short but it's sweet)
- Bad Blood 2003 vs. Nash ~ *** 1/2
- Raw 12/29/2003 vs. Michaels ~ **** 1/2_

Yeah.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Obis said:


> I can't comment on the TV matches from 2000-2001 as I really don't know/remember a lot of them as I probably haven't watched them since they aired if at all. I will say though while his PPV matches were classic and I'm not trying to discount his work in 2000, look at who he was facing throughout the year. Foley who in the environment he (HHH) worked with him in is a master in the ring. Rock and HHH have always had some of the best in ring chemistry so no surprise even with Rock not being that great in ring, they pulled out the classics they did. Jericho has always been a top notch worker. Then there's Angle, Benoit, both great technical wrestlers.
> 
> So I think it's something to think about. I'm not saying anyone could've produced the same quality of matches under the circumstances HHH had in 2000, but he had a hell of a lot of great people to work with. 2002-2003 was like the polar opposite of 2000-2001. The former he was terrible and worked with terrible wrestlers for the most part, while the latter he was great in the ring and worked with great wrestlers/people he had great chemistry with.
> 
> Like I said, can't comment on TV matches.


I take your point about him having good opponents in 2000 but when you consider that Foley, Jericho and Rock, who all have a great collection of matches, had some of the best matches of their careers against HHH it speaks volumes about how good he was that year. Even great workers have average matches with good opponents sometimes, HHH delivered in a big way all year long.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Only checked out match #1 so far, will update as I go through.

Can't see a ***1/4 in Kane vs Orton. Extremely lively crowd with very good brawling, and some great spots. I'd say ****. Very enjoyable.
Brodus Clay vs Ziggler **


----------



## VampDude (May 24, 2011)

RevolverSnake said:


> is it just me or did sheamus not sell the arm injury enough?


I noticed, it was only Cena who sold the whole arm injury... Although I actually think Cena's arm injury was about 40% real, he'll most probably be in a new movie soon.

Sheamus needs to learn how to sell an injury.


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Lesnar/Cena MOTY so far.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I haven't seen the show yet but looking forward to it from recent ratings here. I saw the opener, was around **1/4 mark, nothing amazing just very generic.

I don't understand though why Cena won, to me it doesn't make any sense. Really confusing.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lesnar/Cena was fucking batshit insane, INSANE, and I loved every second. What an outright fucking fight. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in a WWE ring in my life. Ignoring the finish for a second, Lesnar looked like a fucking killer. Jesus Christ! I can't to watch it again when I get home. Jericho/Punk was awesome too, as was Bryan/Seamus. The undercard matches were a lot of fun also. Really great PPV and again, that main event was kickass. 

On the HHH in 00 vs. 02/03 note, come on Obis lol.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Ha its getting a lot of praise. Where da Cena haters at? Can't wait to watch the show.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It deserves all the praise it's getting. Actually felt quite surreal tbh. I've honestly never seen anything like it. Lesnar said he wanted to create utter fricking chaos? That's exactly what it was. Fucking mental match and I'm seriously so excited to get home and watch it again lol. Jericho/Punk and DB/Seamus were both awesome matches but I have to put Lesnar/Cena as MOTN for the simple fact that it was legitimately something I've never seen before. Awesome match.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*Extreme Rules 2012 Thoughts*

*Cena/Brock* was something else. Fucking brutal. Cena picks up the win, but it doesn't hurt Lesnar's momentum in the slightest. Lesnar destroyed Cena and Cena only won by taking advantage of Lesnar's mistakes. Well-booked and well-executed match that just manages to take over Jericho/Punk from WrestleMania as my WWE MOTY. *****1/4*

I can't say I was a fan of the dragged out brawl that was *Jericho/Punk*. It was good at times, like during Punk's comebacks and Jericho just generating an insane amount from the smark-heavy crowd. I'm quite a fan of both men and add on top of that the hot Chi-Town crowd, this looks to be a recipe for a classic. ****1/4*

Before the DQ first fall, I was loving every minute of *Bryan/Sheamus*. However, after Sheamus passing out rather than tapping, it made me realize how little chance that Bryan has. I know he didn't have much of a chance anyways, but it's their job to make me believe otherwise. ****3/4*

*Other Ratings:*
Kane/Orton: ****3/4*
Show/Cody: ***1/2*
Ziggler/Clay: ****


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

After last night my MOTY list is as follows:

HHH/Taker, Mania 28
Lesnar/Cena, ER
Punk/Jericho, ER
Rock/Cena, Mania 28


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Lesnar/Cena takes a dump on anything this year. So ahead of anything, not even the quality of the match, just the way it was done. I don't think this match given the circumstances could have been done any better. I thought this match would be the first of a 3 part trilogy but this match right here pretty much wrapped it up in one amazing ball.

I need to rewatch Jericho/Punk and DB/Sheamus.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Kane vs Orton - **** - A bit boring really, just a drawn out brawl through the crowd which only got interesting (for the wrong reasons) when they went to the back. lol at Ryder's interference and the cameraman going arse over tit!

Brodus Clay vs Dolph Ziggler - *DUD* - Pointless match and a complete waste of time/filler.

Cody Rhodes vs Big Show - ***1/2* - A decent match involving Show, he has been overdue one to be fair. The ending was very clever, a fun match overall. Cody is impressing me more and more with his adaptability.

Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - ****** - Brilliant match that should have happened at WrestleMania, this had it all, smooth technical exchanges, solid storytelling and actual ring psychology from Bryan when targeting Sheamus' shoulder. A really good effort overall. The crowd was very vocal for Bryan which made it even more entertaining.

Ryback vs Jobber team - *** - Maybe a bit generous but atleast this entertained me, from the pre match promo all the way to the Goldberg chants. Ryback looked quite impressive in there, although he was up against guys that weigh less than first year high school children.

CM Punk vs Jericho - ***** - This was okay but lacked a little bit of pizzaz, having said that both men were quite ceative when implementing the announce table covers into the match. It felt like it dragged during the middle, the crowd was carrying this at times.

Layla vs Nikki Bella - *DUD* - Dissapointed Kharma didn't return to be honest, typical Diva's match, ot given enough time regardless of the quality of workers involved.

John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - *****1/2* - Unbelievable match that had me completely suspend my disbelief until the last minute where Cena made his normal superman comeback. Full credit to both men for putting on a hell of a match, Lesnar completely controlled the crowd while Cena was excellent in his selling until the ending sequence where he miraculously shook off the previous twenty five minutes beatings! Absolute gore fest, something that is rarely seen in WWE these days. I don't want to ever read people saying that Cena can't work on here again, the guy has had three bordeline classics in less than a year. The only criticism of Cena that I have relating to his ring performances is down to his character, can't blame him if Vince wants him to be superman.



Cactus said:


> *Extreme Rules 2012 Thoughts*
> 
> Before the DQ first fall, I was loving every minute of *Bryan/Sheamus*. However, after Sheamus passing out rather than tapping, it made me realize how little chance that Bryan has. I know he didn't have much of a chance anyways, but it's their job to make me believe otherwise. ****3/4*.


Vince was never going to have his new babyface pet project tap out, important faces don't do that, wrestling 101 etc...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ownage™ said:


> I take your point about him having good opponents in 2000 but when you consider that Foley, Jericho and Rock, who all have a great collection of matches, had some of the best matches of their careers against HHH it speaks volumes about how good he was that year. Even great workers have average matches with good opponents sometimes, HHH delivered in a big way all year long.


(Not quoting Razor's post, but this is addressed at him as well)

He was an excellent worker that year no doubt and I'm not denying it. I just brought up the fact his list of opponents at every PPV were perfect for him in some light or another because of people bringing up how bad his opponents were in 2003. Figure I'd work it the other way around.

But yeah, in 2000 the stars were aligned perfectly for HHH to produce classics at every PPV between his own personal level of in ring work and his opponents, while 2003 was the complete opposite and you got what you got there.

On the record though, the times I felt HHH's match at a PPV weren't stellar or on the level of his other matches was when he was facing Angle. Summerslam 00, though Angle was off his game and not a part of the whole match due to a concussion, I didn't feel that was any more than a good match. The match against Angle at Unforgiven was a good match as well but forgettable, and at Royal Rumble, while a great match, I wouldn't go over ***3/4 for it. I never felt HHH meshed well with Angle. Of course, then there's his match against Austin at SS which wasn't good, but I don't think was ever supposed to be with how they built it up, so that gets a pass. The WM main event was a good Fatal Four Way, but nothing extraordinary.

But any other match from 2000-2001, unless I'm forgetting something, for HHH on PPV could be argued as a classic.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Wow! What a brilliant PPV. After a good WM they followed it up with an even better show!

Orton/Kane ***
Brodus/Ziggler *1/2
Rhodes/Show **
Bryan/Sheamus ****1/4
Ryback/Jobbers 1/2*
Punk/Jericho ****1/4
Layla/Bella *
Lesnar/Cena ****1/2


Awesome show, the main events all delivered fantastically, the undercard was fun, it felt like an old school PPV which I loved.

Lesnar should of won but I dont mind too much, it would of been a squash if Lesnar had won pretty much, and Cena's win was not exactly his normal comeback, he smashed Lesnar in the face with a steel chain and dropped him on the steel steps with an FU, it made Lesnar look a monster and Cena still looks strong for whenever he comes back.

Punk v Jericho was a sick sick sick match, I loved that both men got in equal offence and Punk delivered a great underdog performance. Punk botched the rope jump but it made sense as you can just say he saw Jericho with the kendo stick and then stumbled. 

Bryan v Sheamus was a star making match, absolutely awesome that they gave these guys 20 plus minutes.

2 Great PPV's in a row, lets see if they can make it 3 in a row with Over The Limit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't understand why they can't make faces tap out. A complete different environment but it would be like if GSP got put into an armbar and just let his arm break instead of tapping. Makes the submission look weaker than the person would if they were to tap, imo.

About to watch Extreme Rules and I'm pretty hyped. Caught most of the main event but that's it.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Brye said:


> I don't understand why they can't make faces tap out. A complete different environment but it would be like if GSP got put into an armbar and just let his arm break instead of tapping. Makes the submission look weaker than the person would if they were to tap, imo.
> 
> About to watch Extreme Rules and I'm pretty hyped. Caught most of the main event but that's it.


Comparing UFC to pro graps, really? WWE are trying to put over their wrestlers first and foremost, the moves are secondary to that.

The whole point is that a huge babyface not tapping makes him courageous and is a simple tactic to get the marks on his side. Look at Austin at WrestleMania XIII against Bret, that changed his career forever. John Cena has made a whole career based on the 'never give up' mentality. Guys like Hogan never tapped either. You may question it but it has been proved to work well over the years.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

AndreBaker said:


> Comparing UFC to pro graps, really? WWE are trying to put over their wrestlers first and foremost, the moves are secondary to that.
> 
> The whole point is that a huge babyface not tapping makes him courageous and is a simple tactic to get the marks on his side. Look at Austin at WrestleMania XIII against Bret, that changed his career forever. John Cena has made a whole career based on the 'never give up' mentality. Guys like Hogan never tapped either. You may question it but it has been proved to work well over the years.


Small comparison, tbh. It's really the only one I could think of.

That's true, it's certainly worked over the years. I just think it would do a good job of making guys with the submissions deadlier if main event faces tapped. Say Cena faces Bryan, despite the fact that they're on two different levels, let's say they're not. Let's say Bryan goes on to become some huge main event heel. If he's to face Cena, it's hard to think that Bryan could make Cena tap which leads me to believe that Cena would clearly be winning.

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't do it for me because if a guy like Cena or Taker gets put into a submission, the match isn't ending.

Doesn't bother me on a rewatch of a match but watching it live it does sometimes.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - ****1/4

The match felt surreal and it was brutal.My MOTY after Taker/HHH.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Brye said:


> Small comparison, tbh. It's really the only one I could think of.
> 
> That's true, it's certainly worked over the years. I just think it would do a good job of making guys with the submissions deadlier if main event faces tapped. Say Cena faces Bryan, despite the fact that they're on two different levels, let's say they're not. Let's say Bryan goes on to become some huge main event heel. If he's to face Cena, it's hard to think that Bryan could make Cena tap which leads me to believe that Cena would clearly be winning.
> 
> ...


Yeah, can be annoying if you understand what's going on, but we're not Vince's target audience, the hordes of children/marks that like to follow a hero. WWE's first interest isn't artistic integrity, just making stars that can draw money. HHH managed to become a mega heel without making the top faces tap, didn't hurt him.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Extreme Rules 2012

Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - **** 

Certainly need to re-watch this. I did really enjoy the match and the gimmick word well with these two. I think this match really showed off how great Bryan really is. Despite Sheamus being a fantastic worker, there were parts where Bryan outshone him. Bryan brings a different move set to the table and he always seems unique in the ring especially when attempting submission moves, it's really refreshing. 

Other Results

Kane/Orton - **1/4
Cody/Show - **1/4


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Really good show with 3 real great matches. Have the 3 main events at **** .


Just makes me looked more disappointingly at WM 28 if we could have had a Bryan/Sheamus match it would have really made it a great WM.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

The thing is with their WM 28 match is that they could afford to get away with it being 18 seconds because 1. It's Wrestlemania, people will buy regardless 2. HIAC match 3. You probably had the biggest match ever Rock/Cena.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Haven't done it in awhile, but I'll be back later with a Lesnar/Cena review.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I still think they would have had time if they took out the Clay segment and shortened the pointless diva tag match.Furthermore, I think having that as a strong opening match would have helped the following matches as the '18 seconds' match really hurt the crowd for the 1st hour imo.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Word said:


> *The thing is with their WM 28 match is that they could afford to get away with it being 18 seconds because 1. It's Wrestlemania, people will buy regardless* 2. HIAC match 3. You probably had the biggest match ever Rock/Cena.


So fans can see into the future now? lol. In all seriousness, you make a good point, three (maybe just two) matches carried carried Mania, the rest were an irrelavance. Having said that, the shit that was pulled at Mania could have put off hardcore Bryan Marks from ordering future pay per views, maybe a drop in the ocean but still money down the shitter.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> I still think they would have had time if they took out the Clay segment and shortened the pointless diva tag match.Furthermore, I think having that as a strong opening match would have helped the following matches as the '18 seconds' match really hurt the crowd for the 1st hour imo.


I think it was stupid, don't get me wrong especially when it's a World Heavyweight Title Match. Fair enough if it's Kane/Chavo for the ECW title, no one cared about that. I would have loved a decent 10-15 minute bout at Mania.



AndreBaker said:


> So fans can see into the future now? lol. In all seriousness, you make a good point, three (maybe just two) matches carried carried Mania, the rest were an irrelavance. Having said that, the shit that was pulled at Mania could have put off hardcore Bryan Marks from ordering future pay per views, maybe a drop in the ocean but still money down the shitter.


No one saw the 18 second match coming but like I said it's Mania, they were going to pull in the buyrates because of that and the HIAC, Rock/Cena so making the match 1 second or 20 minutes wouldn't have made a difference.

Vince doesn't care if your pissed off, any of us for that matter. It's all about the money, and that match wasn't the money maker. Extreme Rules however was a different story.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Word said:


> I think it was stupid, don't get me wrong especially when it's a World Heavyweight Title Match. Fair enough if it's Kane/Chavo for the ECW title, no one cared about that. I would have loved a decent 10-15 minute bout at Mania.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Vince will care if fans are pissed off enough to stop spending money, hence why I said that it might have effected _some_ fans decision to order Extreme Rules. If some fans' only motivation to order the pay per view was Bryan vs Sheamus then they might have thought twice before commiting to spend money on something that could well dissapoint them again. Yeah, Mania is selling regardless of dumb booking, barring a complete lack of star power/match quality.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

*WWE Extreme Rules - Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus*
This was great stuff with a very good story told. Bryan was made to look fucking awesome here, and he delivered, imo, one of his best performances of his career. He was so good at wearing down Sheamus at first by going after anything he could including the arm and the neck to soften him up for the Yes Lock after the quick back and forth start with Bryan using his quickness and Sheamus even trying a new submission to combat Bryans. Awesome workover segment that lasted a long time but it was so entertaining because Bryan knows how to do that and keep things fresh and interesting by adding in little things like bending the fingers and the arm in brutal looking ways. I really liked the booking of the first two falls with Bryan relentlessly kicking Sheamus in the arm and not letting up even when he was in the ropes. Bryans reaction after made it even better as he knew he could win the fall back with the Yes Lock and thats exactly what he did. Sheamus was given time to recover with the rest period as he was attended to by medics and whatever else WWE likes to call them, and that allowed him to make his comeback which was really good. The only downside was the finish was slightly anti-climatic with Sheamus simply making a comeback and winning with only one real nearfall on Bryan but that didn't take away from the rest which was absolutely top notch. Bryans performance was awesome and he gave Sheamus the best match of his career to date. *****1/4*

I missed the last part of Punk/Jericho but I was digging it quite a bit, I'll have to rewatch later today as well as Brock/Cena as I missed the beginning. What I did see though seemed very surreal in an awesome kind of way.


----------



## Anguyen92 (Jun 24, 2011)

Wow, I think I am the only one, here, that really really hate Cena/Lesnar. Sure, its fun to see Lesnar being a beast and giving Cena, the beating of a lifetime, but at that point, I was just bored of it, at the 15 min. mark, and that Cena being SuperCena in the end did not help at all. Am I missing something?


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

*John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (4/29/2012)*

"I'm not a superstar. I'm an ass kicker. I am Brock Lesnar." 

Those 3 sentences are really all that needs to be said about this match because it sums it up perfectly. Since returning people have wondered what Lesnar was returning to the WWE and needless to say this ain't Lesnar the pro wrestler returning, it's Lesnar the MMA fighter. I can't sing enough praise to whomever decided to let Lesnar come back and be the ass kicking, MMA fighter. I was worried that the powers that be were gonna try to have Lesnar revert back to being a pro wrestler, but no, they let this dude go the whole nine yards (mouth guard, fight shorts, fighting gloves). Honestly, it might be one of the smartest things the company has done in years because at this point, nobody is paying to see Lesnar "wrestle", they wanna continue to see the fighter and ass kicker (just as Lesnar alluded to with his pre-match comments).

The match was fucking insane though, I think that's probably the best way I can put it. Absolutely bat shit insane. Lesnar just completely wrecks Cena for 15+ mins and to his credit, Cena bumps and sells for Lesnar like no other. Lesnar does an amazing job in his own right to make himself look like a badass motherfucker. Hell, a sick, badass motherfucker at that cause at point this dude was wiping Cena's blood on his chest and licking it off his gloves. Who's gonna want to fuck around with someone like that? However, as much credit as Lesnar deserves for getting himself over, Cena deserves just as much because he went out there, played company ambassador, and did what was good for business and that was help make Lesnar look like the unstoppable Terminator. 

I also loved how Lesnar did basically one pro wrestling move the entire match (his finisher). Everything else he did was basically hard strikes or mat based wrestling holds (german suplex and the kimura) and it was perfect because again, this isn't Brock Lesnar the pro wrestler, it's Brock Lesnar the MMA fighter. It also made him look more badass and gave the match more 'authenticity', making the fans wonder if they were watching a work or a shoot. The ref bumps were an awesome touch too cause it helped put over the carnage of the match and the ruthlessness of Lesnar, and the doctor checks/stoppages were great too because it helped add the element of realness to the match and suspended disbelief to the audience. 

And yeah, it was a botch, but Lesnar's crazy fucking dive actually ended up working into his favor. Not only did the match put over how badass and ruthless he is, but that dive got over how fucking crazy and unstable the dude is. Honestly, who's gonna wanna go against this unstoppable wrecking machine that'll just throws his beast of a body at you with zero disregard? Also, it just added another element of insanity to the match. The finish was the only thing that kind of sucked. Like I understand why Cena went over to extent, but he shouldn't have. Yeah, Lesnar looked like the Terminator while losing, but there's a reason James Cameron turned Arnold face in T2 and that's because nobody would buy into the Terminator still being heel after he ended up losing in the first movie. If anything, Cena should have went over via KO/TKO instead of pinfall. The audience has seen Lesnar lose legitimately via KO/TKO so if Cena were to have knocked Lesnar unconscious with that chain or whatever, it would have been much more believable and still kept Lesnar looking incredibly strong. You could have ran with the gimmick of the only way to stop this monster is to knock him out and built to another Cena/Lesnar match where Lesnar gets his win back. Just sloppy booking if you ask me, but still an absolutely insane match and one of the most entertaining things WWE has done in recent memory. ****3/4


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> *John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (4/29/2012)*
> 
> "I'm not a superstar. I'm an ass kicker. I am Brock Lesnar."
> 
> ...


This is a fantastic post and a great read regardless of your opinions, which I just happen to agree with, every single word. Remind me to rep you, need to spread some. Redead was right about you guys, some fucking good posts in here, going to stick around here from now on.


----------



## taylormade (Feb 29, 2012)

Randy Orton vs. Kane - ***1/4
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - ****
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/2
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar - ****1/2


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Sheamus/Bryan and Punk/Jericho were awesome too.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

-Mystery- said:


> *John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (4/29/2012)*
> 
> "I'm not a superstar. I'm an ass kicker. I am Brock Lesnar."
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it any better myself. I personally didn't mind the finish though as it basically was Cena narrowly getting the upper-hand via a shot with the chain after a mistake by Lesnar then a quick AA on the steel steps. You could say that his long time away from pro wrestling lead to his loss. It didn't do any harm to Lesnar's credibility if you ask me. I might go the full ***** after another watch tbh.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I wonder if they will let Brock be as wreckless as he was last night. I mean he fucked up Cena pretty bad, take away the wrestling is 'fake' for a moment. Lesnar cut Cena head open within the opening minute and reports are that he has torn his bicep now and he pretty much raped Cena's arm throughout the match. Lesnar botch was pretty sick too, could of genuinely fucked himself up there.

Props to Cena for putting himself on the line last night, boo him all you want, but you have to give him credit. There were a lot more cheers when he decided to break kayfabe and talk to the crowd at the end too, hardly any boos. Respect to the most important man in the business, without him WWE would be a shittier place.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Hopefully we get a Orton/Jericho feud befoe Y2J leaves , could be a great match and bring Orton up the card in preperation to face Lesnar at Summerslam.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Hopefully we get a Orton/Jericho feud befoe Y2J leaves , could be a great match and bring Orton up the card in preperation to face Lesnar at Summerslam.


It'd make sense as the last time we saw Jericho before his return was when Orton punted him and Jericho could of course bring that up as the reason he wants fight Orton. I'd love to see a feud between the two.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Word said:


> I wonder if they will let Brock be as wreckless as he was last night. I mean he fucked up Cena pretty bad, take away the wrestling is 'fake' for a moment. Lesnar cut Cena head open within the opening minute and reports are that he has torn his bicep now and he pretty much raped Cena's arm throughout the match. Lesnar botch was pretty sick too, could of genuinely fucked himself up there.
> 
> Props to Cena for putting himself on the line last night, boo him all you want, but you have to give him credit. There were a lot more cheers when he decided to break kayfabe and talk to the crowd at the end too, hardly any boos. Respect to the most important man in the business, without him WWE would be a shittier place.


These are exactly my thoughts here. I'm really interested to see what they do with Lesnar now, will they let him hit blows like that any more? He needs to be careful he doesn't seriously injure anyone.

Also, Cena adeserves so much props for taking that shit and carrying on. He came off as a tough motherfucker after that and his speech was great and genuine at the end. He deserves all the time off he needs because he went through a war at the ppv. Cena is the man.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Extreme Rules sounds like a great show. Downloading now. Gonna re-watch HHH/Taker and Punk/Jericho from Mania as well. Make sure I have my MOTY ish in order.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finally got home from uni and watched Cena/Lesnar again. I'm still in shock lol. What a fucking match, seriously, what a fucking match! MOTN by a mile and that's saying a lot considering the quality of the other top 2 matches on the card. I might even have it joint with HHH/Taker for MOTY tbh. I'm going to watch it again later on lol. I just love it and Brock Lesnar is a legitimate fucking beast. The man could literally rip any man apart with his bare hands. Chaos.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Questions for some of you.... 

I have not watched ER2012 yet but I'm excited to. I probably won't get my hands on it until it is out in stores. A few things....

I see why Cena won and all and I heard Brock beat the fuck out of him and blah blah but it sounds like Cena won clean? Im too busy and lazy to read through all of the posts (at work) to see how it went down but can someone sum up the finish for me and why Brock still comes out looking so strong despite losing to Cena? It just makes no sense to me for Brock to be talked up as this badass the last few weeks only to have him lose his first match back. 

Am I missing something with Sheamus? Now I figured he would retain but why are they so high on this guy? I find him boring as fuck and with as over as Bryan is I heard he didnt look very strong? Thats just what Im hearing from buddies I have who watched the show. Sheamus has a terrible finisher (a big boot to the face...ooooooooo) and zero charisma or mic skills. Now he is a good worker and has the look sure but I can't wait until Barrett is healthy and takes the WHC from him. Maybe its just me. 

What is next for Punk feud wise? I assume the Punk/Jericho feud is over. I mean they could have a Jericho needs to win or retire match at the next ppv or MitB with Jericho winning and Punk could win the title back at Summerslam or something? IDK. With Dolph and Miz jobbing to Brodus and Santino (WTF?) who is going to step up and challenge Punk for the belt now? As much as I like Punk it made sense last night for Jericho to win the title in Punk's hometown and build Jericho up even more as the mega douchebag heel he plays to perfection only to build up Punk even more with him winning it back this summer.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Just finished watching Punk/Jericho and thought it was great, come on here and see rave reviews for Lesnar/Cena and Sheamus/Bryan as well. I'm very excited to watch these two matches now. I have Jericho/Punk at ****1/4.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

A while back I remember a discussion in here about what makes a 5* match a 5* match? People were talking about just getting 'the feeling' from it. I find it impossible to rate Cena/Lesnar compared to other matches because I don't think there's anything to compare it to. Based on that and considering the fact that I was legit stunned and still am after watching it, I think I might give it the full 5. I got 'the feeling' lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm not quite sold on Lesnar/Cena being MOTN much less MOTY as for MOTN I'd definitely but the WWE and World Title matches above it. However for most unique MOTY? Most unique Match of the last 20 years? I haven't seen every match in existence the last 20 years, but this one definitely sticks out as the most unique on this level of "wrestling". It's one thing to watch a fight like that in UFC, but a completely other thing to watch it in WWE, see Cena's skull get opened up in 10 seconds and seeing his arm nearly torn off. It definitely felt like a real, shoot match up until the finish.

Speaking of the finish, after sleeping on it and thinking a bit about it at work, I will say I was a bit hasty with what I said in several posts last night. While I don't think Cena beating Lesnar was the best move, that doesn't make it a wrong move. Even though Lesnar did look pretty weak at the end there, he still destroyed Cena throughout the match. I hope they play Lesnar losing up as something like... well... like a kid who played with his food way too much and finally ended up choking on it. Basically that Lesnar got way too cocky and rather than finishing Cena the number of times he could've, he proceeded to just beat the hell out of him and do crazy stuff like throw himself onto Cena on the apron, going over the rope and seemingly tearing/breaking something in his leg. And then proceeding to try it again, which ended up being his undoing.

Like I said, I still feel they went with one of the worst options for the finish of that match (Cena winning), but they could still make this work (which I did say last night, but now I feel better about). We'll just have to wait and see what happens on Raw.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Lesnar/Cena last night was something really special. I can't believe I saw a match like that happen in a WWE ring. I've never seen anything like that before. Cena was at his best because he had the perfect monster to go against in Lesnar. I very rarely think that Cena can't win a match but I was fooled into think it this time. Lesnar was such a great heel in the match too. By the end I was rooting for Cena to win, and was really happy when he did.


Wrestlemania 28 Review

I think enough time has passed that I might be able to look at this without total live bias. 

_
World Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*Daniel Bryan(c) w/AJ vs. Sheamus*

The one thing that made me really angry while I was here. I really would love to congratulate WWE for making the worst possible booking decision they could make. Bryan was super over and so was Sheamus. Instead of putting on a good match we get this shit and now Sheamus, the guy they want to push as a top face in the company, is going to have a lot of fans turn against him. Also next 3 matches would have audible chants for Daniel Bryan because of this.
*DUD* 

*
Randy Orton vs. Kane*

While not anything special I thought it was a very solid match that built into a great conclusion. Orton came out guns blazing and was taking it right to Kane for the first few minutes before Kane was able to take control of the match. His control segment wasn't all that exciting but it built into Orton's comeback nicely. Watching this a second time I have to say I was really impressed with what they managed to do. There was limited time and they couldn't go crazy with false finishes and a million kickouts but they put together an enjoyable and smartly worked match. 
**** *

_
Intercontinental Championship Match_
*Cody Rhodes(c) vs. The Big Show*

I can't say I was impressed with this one at all. I was happy to see Big Show get a happy moment at Wrestlemania, it looked like real emotion after he won so that was nice to see because Big Show does seem like a really good guy. There were a few nice moments of the match but there was almost no back and forth stuff. They exchanged control segments and then Big Show hit a brutal looking spear and got the win with the knockout punch. I won't say that it was a bad match but it was very unspectacular. 
*** *


*Kelly Kelly and Maria Menounos vs. Eve and Beth Phoenix
*
I made a pretty epic run to the bathroom and to refill my drink during the entrances of this match.The match itself was decent all things considered. I liked that they worked Maria's ribs since they were injured. In fact the structure of the match was really put together well but the execution for a lot of the moves just wasn't. Some stuff looked really good but just as many of the moves looked terrible. I just give a match with so many bad looking moves a high rating. 
**1/2*

_
End of an Era Hell in a Cell:_
*Undertaker vs. Triple H*
_Special Referee: Shawn Michaels
_
Triple H had done a lot of talking about how Undertaker only wanted this match so his career could come to an end. Undertaker had been looking more and more mortal the last 3 years and just when you thought he was weak enough to beat he came out swinging and looking like a total badass. He took it right to Triple H and within the opening minutes you knew this was going to be a war and not Undertaker's funeral. What I liked about the control segments was that there was always a devastating move that was able to break up the segment and turn the tide of the match. I wasn't all that close to the ring but watching some of the chair shots was brutal. I had no idea they were laying into each other so much. 

While the Undertaker came out strong it didn't last as he ended up at the mercy of Triple H not too far into the match. It's amazing how they were able make the "nothing left" thing work so early on in the match. The crowd was popping for a nearfall without having seen a single finisher. They got to the same point they made it to last year in the first half of the match, Undertaker was done and Triple H was ready to finish him off, and they built on it from there. This is where Shawn got involved and he made a really interesting dynamic in the match since he clearly did not want any of this to be happening. I totally missed why Shanw got locked into the Hell's Gate live but it was brilliant to see why he did it. Shawn went to call for the bell and it was the only way Undertaker could stop him. 

Oh, and then they make this even more amazing by doing the same finish last year with a Hell's Gate out nowhere but the ref is down. Charles Robinson makes another epic run to the ring only to get a chokeslam for not counting to 3. The Sweet Chin Music/Pedigree nearfall might be one of my favorite moments ever. There are very few times in a high profile match like this where I really think a match is going to end and this was one of them. I remember looking at the crowd and I saw thousands of grown men jumping up and down in excitement over this nearfall. Undertaker sitting up after it and starting a comeback was also an awe inspiring moment and the look on Triple H's faces where he's like, "Oh shit!" is priceless. 

The ending of the match was everything that it needed to be. It really felt like it was the end of the road for Triple H and I loved how he just wouldn't stay down against the Undertaker. We got the conclusive ending with a clear and obvious winner that was able to walk out on his own. The ending was another awesome flashback to their match last year.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen any match like this before. There was a lot of talking and Shawn's role was really odd. I was able to understand where Shawn was coming from with all his emotion though and it created this cool dynamic where you had someone very human in the middle of a battle between these two monsters. I view a wrestling match as a fake fight that tells a story. That's probably the best definition of what a wrestling match is that I can come up with and based off that definition this match is perfect. It's the WWE style of a match worked to perfection and there isn't a company in the world today that could ever come close to creating a match like this. I'm not even sure if there are two guys in wrestling who could pull something off like this either. I don't have a bad thing to say about the match. Being there live was an experience unlike any other and the match didn't lose that feel when I watched it again. 
*****3/4*

_
Winner is GM of Both Shows:_
*Team Teddy (Kofi Kingston, Great Khali, Booker T, R-Truth, Santino Marrella, and Zack Ryder) vs. Team Johnny (Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, Mark Henry, David Otunga, The Miz, and Drew McIntyre)*

Really tough spot that they have as the crowd just saw a classic. The problem with these matches on a WM is usually that they usually have the main goal of getting everyone ring time in very limited time. We actually got a solid control segment from Team Johnny on Booker T but due to time restrains there wasn't a hot tag, everyone just ran in and they went right to the finishing stretch. Hey at least the finishing stretch was really exciting. Santino got the crowd going and made a hot tag with Ryder. The combination of Ryer/Ziggler/Miz did some awesome stuff in the ring before Eve got involved and cost Team Teddy the match. It was good and with some more time to get in a hot tag and extend the finishing stretch it could have been a lot better. Still a fun match. 
***1/2 *

_
WWE Championship Match:_
*CM Punk(c) vs. Chris Jericho *

I loved the stipulation that was made right before the match where Punk could lose the belt by DQ. Going into the match you just wanted to see Punk beat the shit out of Jericho and now he had to keep control or lose the title. Jericho of course takes advantage of this and his offense consisted mostly of insults and slaps to the face. I was a little confused at some of the things that the ref was making Punk break for (elbows to the side of the head shouldn't be illegal). Being able to hear all the insults was a lot of fun but none of the comments were as good as hearing a young child in the crowd scream (in total seriousness), "The TITLE, think about the TITLE" when Punk was thinking of using a chair. The Jericho insults were almost as good though. Punk gets in a lot of offense but he's clearly distracted and Jericho takes advantage of that and is able to take control of the match. He hit a suplex from the apron to the floor which looked and sounded brutal to take control of the match and from there he worked the back. 

Jericho's offense was so smart here as he hit a huge move to hurt the back of Punk and in the weeks leading to this match Jericho had been going after the back time and time again. Here's where the offense gets even better; all of this was used to set up the Walls of Jericho. There were a few times where it looked like they were getting close to the end but they just kept going and really built the suspense up to it. Loved the chain wrestling they did at the end. It was the little things like Punk adjusting his position so Jericho couldn't knee him in the back of the head that really made me appreciate how good these guys are. 

I really enjoyed the match and it kind of felt like I was watching a Japanese crowd. I know when I was there I was watching intently but there were times when the crowd would just explode. The only downside to the match was that there really didn't seem to be much selling on Punk's side. I mean he seemed hurt but it didn't look like his back was hurt and that's what Jericho devoted a lot of his offense to. I also would have liked them to incorporate the DQ stipulation at least once towards the end of the match because after the opening minutes it was sort of abandoned. Minor gripes though as the match was compelling to watch from bell to bell. A great effort from both guys and I would be tempted to go higher if they had done a few little things better.
***** *


*John Cena vs. The Rock *

There was just a buzz in the stadium as they faced off. Very few matches get this feel to them where you can honestly say that you feel the electricity in the air but this match is certainly one of them. After the initial face off they establish early on that the Rock is still the fucking Rock as he wins their first exchange. Cena's reaction to it all was fantastic. While it was a great sign seeing the Rock show he still had it Cena's reactions to it all really were spot on. It started with surprise and went to confusion, when he put Cena in a headlock his face was saying, "what should I do?" Cena even rolled out of the ring to regroup which is something that Cena just doesn't do. He's able to regroup though and then we see a control segment by Cena, another thing I'm not used to seeing. 

The Rock hurts his ribs and Cena was all over it. Cena just seemed different in this match, which is certainly a good thing. I've seen him wrestle in some really hostile environments before but he never acts this different. It was refreshing to see even if his control segment wasn't particularly interesting as there were a couple lengthy bear hugs that made up a good chunk of his control segment. While it wasn't the most interesting part of the match it did set up nicely for the hot comeback from the Rock. They did work the crowd well with this as the match started at a fever pitched but they slowed things down so when they were ready to pick up the pace the crowd was also ready for it. 

Cena manages to react even better to the match as it goes on. After controlling the match for an extended period of time we see him get back some of his confidence. It wasn't the determined confidence that he always showed, his grins looked downright cocky at times. 

There was a period leading up to the finish where I thought the match dragged a bit but the crowd was red hot for the finish. I got fooled for the second time of the night when Cena countered the cross body into another Attitude Adjustment for a two count. Cena going for the People's Elbow was a total dick move on his part. The crowd's reaction to the Rock jumping back up as Cena ran over him and hitting the Rock Bottom for the 3 will probably end up being the happiest I've ever been while watching a wrestling match. I thought there was no chance in hell that the Rock would win clean and the pop when he did win was the loudest the crowd was all night. I get chills when thinking about the reaction the crowd had when the Rock hit that Rock Bottom. 

Is this a wrestling classic? No I suppose it's not by any means but it was a spectacal and another type of match that only the WWE can provide. The match had some flaws in it but when I look back at the match none of them really seem to matter in the long run. Cena gave a great performance and this loss has turned him into one of the more compelling characters in wrestling. This is one of those matches where I can see people arguing over the rating. I tend to rate these matches high as it was a highly entertaining 20+ minute match that told a pretty awesome story. That being said the high rating I'm giving this really doesn't do awesomeness of the match justice. 
***** *​

Overall I thought Wrestlemania this year was incredible. There were two matches that can't happen in any other company and on any other show. It's matches like Cena/Rock and Triple H/Undertaker that make Wrestlemania much more than just another PPV. The undercard matches were decent, they've been better other years for sure, but for the most part they were all kept short. There were 3 matches that got significant time and all 3 of those matches delivered. Obviously the Daniel Bryan title loss is my biggest complaint and it's frustrating to see how much filler they put onto the show instead of letting them have some time to work a real match. The main events I felt were on par with some of the better Wrestlemanias that we've seen but the average undercard prevents this show from being one of the best Wrestlemanias ever. Still well worth a watch and I think this will still end up being the best show of the year for WWE.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Just finished watching Punk/Jericho and thought it was great, come on here and see rave reviews for Lesnar/Cena and Sheamus/Bryan as well. I'm very excited to watch these two matches now. I have Jericho/Punk at ****1/4.


Downloading that now, was my most anticipated match out of the three.



Starbuck said:


> A while back I remember a discussion in here about what makes a 5* match a 5* match? People were talking about just getting 'the feeling' from it. I find it impossible to rate Cena/Lesnar compared to other matches because I don't think there's anything to compare it to. Based on that and considering the fact that I was legit stunned and still am after watching it, I think I might give it the full 5. I got 'the feeling' lol.


Your the first to give it 5* I think. Whatever Meltzer slaps on by Thursday, I'm sure a few will follow his rating. Full 5 for me? Will need a rewatch, loved it but not to that extent on first watch.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Questions for some of you....
> 
> I have not watched ER2012 yet but I'm excited to. I probably won't get my hands on it until it is out in stores. A few things....
> 
> ...


1. Brock pretty much destroyed him throughout the match. I don't think they wanted Cena to lose twice on PPV, that's my only reasoning. Brock still has momentum no doubt, the finish was odd, so unless they go somewhere with this then yes I agree it's a bit silly but I can live with it. 

2. Sheamus is a fantastic worker. He was thrown down peoples necks when he first arrived and a lot of people here hated that, till they realised he isn't that bad. He isn't amazing in the ring, and last night I thought Bryan outshone him but I'm not taking anything away from Sheamus here, he's a genuine main eventer imo. Maybe needs to add something to his gimmick to make him legitimate as I feel his character could go stale. His program at the moment with Bryan is enjoyable though so I don't see that stopping.

3. Miz is hitting a real low point in his career at the moment, he has no momentum whatsoever. I really like Dolph, they should start to give him a chance, he did pretty well against Punk at Royal Rumble. Punk may continue his feud with Jericho I don't know. I'm guessing Brock or Orton may challenge Punk next as I can't think of anyone credible right now. Cena I think after tonights RAW may take some time off.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Reading Taylor's review, I actually wonder what was everyone's favorite part specifically of Taker/HHH from WM this year?

It's tough for me...

1) The SCM/Pedigree combo was awesome and scary for us who didn't want Taker's streak to come to an end at any cost, much less to HHH. I was sure it was over, though still don't think it was as good as last year with Taker taking three pedigrees and then that tombstone where I could've bet in those seconds if someone could pause time that Taker wouldn't kick out... hope that made sense. If I had to place the SCM/Pedigree combo somewhere for false finishes, it would be between the 3rd pedigree from HHH last year and the tombstone from him last year. 
2) Taker kicking out of the above was just awesome.
3) HHH running at Taker with the sledgehammer, only for Taker to stop him and grab the hammer from him.
4) Taker stepping on the hammer as HHH tried to pick it up.
(And yes, I'm not necessarily going in order of when what happened)

But I think my favorite is this one...

HHH running at Taker who's down on the mat (well... fast walking). Taker sits up, HHH falls backwards. Hilarious and awesome at the same time. Anyone have a gif of that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Your #3 was probably my favourite part of the match. Was just awesome. Actually thought about it last night lol, someone during The Avengers movie reminded me of it .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Obis said:


> Reading Taylor's review, I actually wonder what was everyone's favorite part specifically of Taker/HHH from WM this year?
> 
> It's tough for me...
> 
> ...


Number one. I had completely forgotten about Shawn and when that happened... dear god. 

Actually my second favourite would have to be HHH's crotch chop. A thing about Hunter is when he gets war weary, he looks like a wounded lion and everything. And the crotch chop was a reminder to everyone that he is still The Game.

Tomorrow I'll hopefully watch Cena/Lesnar, and possibly Punk/Jericho too. Can't wait to see the main event though, people are really rating it and I knew they would deliver something awesome.


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

Cage-Taylor Phitz said:


> Lesnar/Cena last night was something really special. I can't believe I saw a match like that happen in a WWE ring. I've never seen anything like that before. Cena was at his best because he had the perfect monster to go against in Lesnar. I very rarely think that Cena can't win a match but I was fooled into think it this time. Lesnar was such a great heel in the match too. By the end I was rooting for Cena to win, and was really happy when he did.


Same here. This is the only time I can ever remember someone beating the sympathy out of the crowd for someone else. I'm really curious as to what Cena's character is going to be when he comes back. I'm sure he returns as face but I'm not so sure as the cheesy boy scout. Other than a heel turn, last night might have been the second best option for him.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Obis said:


> Reading Taylor's review, I actually wonder what was everyone's favorite part specifically of Taker/HHH from WM this year?
> 
> It's tough for me...
> 
> ...


Definitely number 1 for me, when they hit the combo I was on my feet I was convinced they had ended the streak, a great moment and the pop from the crowd on the kick out was brilliant.

With Regards to last night, really enjoyed Bryan/Sheamus and Punk/Jericho. Bryan and Sheamus I would put slightly ahead as match of the night, both guys put on a great performance and definitely Bryan's best WWE match to date. The main event was insanely brutal, Lesnar legit beat the crap out of Cena and it was a really good finish, Surprised they went for Cena win and really looking forward to seeing what they do with both guys next.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

DesolationRow said:


> As for the question posed by *KingCal*, I think the Triple H of 2000 could have practically had at least a very watchable match with almost anybody. The guy worked miracles that year; everyone lists his PPV work, and rightly so, but some forget his TV work. I don't think anybody ever quite made Rikishi look like a million bucks in a one-on-one match the way Triple H did with apparent ease. I still remember Triple H working a match with Bob Holly on Sunday Night Heat at that time. Not to say Holly was some kind of awful worker or anything but Trips put on a hell of a match with him. He even worked the miracle of getting something decent on TV out of Billy Gunn, I think in the first couple months of 2001? *His match with TAKA stands as something of a mini-classic*, haha.



True. I have seen historians from classics board use that match as a standard for best heel work. Triple h, as big of a star he was working main events every week, actually had the crowd cheer for Taka michinuko in that match. Thats how damn good he was in 2000.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Obis said:


> Reading Taylor's review, I actually wonder what was everyone's favorite part specifically of Taker/HHH from WM this year?
> 
> It's tough for me...
> 
> ...


I almost expected a swerve with the SCM/Pedigree combo. One of my favorite moments has to be Taker assaulting the refs, though. It was funny when he suddenly grabbed Shawn's arm and put him in the Hell's Gate. Then a minute later, Charles Robinson runs to the ring and gets chokeslammed. Loled @ that.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I had a fuckin blast at the show last night! This has this month has to be one of the best months ever for me as a wrestling fan. First WM28 and now Extreme Rules! 

Santino/Miz - short match with Miz working the crowd with cheap heat and Santino working his comedy spots. I'll give Miz credit he knows how to use cheap heat on the local towns he goes, lol. My section was chanting Cleveland Sucks after he tried to diss Chi-town. Santino got a good pop with the Cobra.

Kane/Orton - They brawled right under my section! That, the DDT spot and Orton kicking out of the chokeslam were really good moments.

Ziggler/Clay - Pretty much everyone was rooting for Dolph with the "Let's go Ziggler" chants. It's a shame he is such a jobber to everyone these days. The guy's bumping is his gift and curse because he made Clay look good even though Dolph was shining in his performance.

Rhodes/Show - Cody had a lot of support here which had to be the best support reactions he's received so far in his career. I love the finish with Cody "putting" Show "through a table." That was a very clever way for him to win and Show just killed him after that. At first everyone was booing him but us blood-thirsty Chicagoans forgot about all of that when he decided to give it to him 'one more time'. Good the IC title is back on Rhodes and Show came out of it as a pissed off dominate giant as he should. 

Sheamus/Bryan - YES! YES! YES! They FINALLY had a real championship match on PPV and I must say it was a damn fine wrestling match. Everyone was hot for this one with the YES! and NO! chants. People also chanted Daniel Bryan-18 seconds which I thought was funny. But these two work so well together which I knew their styles would mesh perfectly. I agree with Seabs on them building each fall into the next very well. Bryan's kick to Sheamus' head was stiff as hell! No way around faking that, he kicked his fucking head in. Both guy's got out of this match what they needed imo. Bryan went hold for hold, blow for blow with Sheamus for over 20 minutes. Bryan looked vicious with the kicks and attacks to Sheamus' shoulder, and clever for taking advantage of the injury. Sheamus showed vulnerability with his selling while still being a triumphant champion in the end and many people inspired by that journey for a character they could cheer for. Fantastic wrestling match. ***** 1/4 *

GOL-BERG Ryback/Jobbers - I was so happy when he came out to kick those guy's asses. 

Punk/Jericho - Emotional. Dramatic. Hardcore. They did pull out another great match together with a bunch of great character work. I could feel the hatred they had for each other in the opening moments of match. Jericho is one of the best heels ever really. Jericho holding his hand up in the air draws a chorus of boos that easily. I agree Cal with us not being molten hot like they were at MITB '11 but it was still hot with the CM Punk and This is awesome chants. We even got a Macho Man chant going after the first elbow drop. The flying elbow to the outside on the table was insane madness, yeah! Punk's family being at ringside and getting involved added to how personal the feud was built up. They told great storytelling with so many of the spots they incorporated. ******

Bellas/Layla - Everyone wanted Kharma and Layla came out with absolutely no build so it will be interesting to see how they handle her reign. I like Layla. She has improved in the ring and I think she will stop trying but this was just random as hell. I thought it would be fitting a year after Kharma debuted at ER '11 and was humiliated by the Bellas before she took her leave to get some get back on their way out of the company. 

Lesnar/Cena - Oh My God! I don't think there has ever been a main event match like this violent, brutal, extreme fight. Brock was raging on Cena with the MMA elbows and punches. Man, what a way to start a match with the intensity at a 10! The blood was glorious sight to see. I don't care about the trainers coming out to attend to Cena or the ref asserting himself a bit much for an Extreme Rules match because there was no saving Cena from this monster. Brock was going to do exactly what he to do; to Cena, the refs, or anyone that got into his way. 

Both men were extraordinary in their roles I must say. Lesnar was an animal rubbing Cena's blood all over his body and then licking his fingers like a beast. Cena quite simply gave one of the best babyface performances not only in his career but one of the best I've personally ever seen in wrestling. All of his comebacks that quickly got shut down displayed Brock's overwhelming dominance but also Cena's fighting spirit perfectly. The "You Chant See Me" taunt he did to Lesnar down the stretch only to get his assed kicked more was a thing a beauty to witness. Brock got caught up toying with Cena so much just like Cena did at WrestleMania just three weeks ago. 

In the context to how the match was executed, I wasn't upset with the finish. Cena indeed rose above the hate and the fans embraced him for being the guy that did not give up in this fight against a war machine. I won't say I ever loved John Cena during his incredibly dominant run thus far but last night I loved John Cena - the character, wrestler and man. I dug the post-match speech too.

Now thinking about the finish with the story and business side of things might leave many scratching their heads and I won't argue with that. If Cena is taking some time off why wouldn't Lesnar win this match? I don't know WWE's thinking is with that booking decision but hopefully it makes sense in the long run for all parties involved and business. They just better have a clear plan for what they are going to do with the force Lesnar is supposed to be. His drawing power may not be completely ruined. He really needs to hurt a lot of people now, though.


We'll see what they do with him but as far as Lesnar's performance here, he doesn't seem to have missed a beat. Lesnar was the perfect monster heel and I can't wait to see him tear threw everybody like he did with Cena here. Cena may have won the match but he was also physically humbled. But man, I just love the symbolism with the steps and how Cena won't let Lesnar take his spot at the top, yet. If "The End of an Era" didn't happen this would be my MOTY. ***** 1/2 *


What a show.



Pics


Spoiler: pics


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

*Lesnar vs. Cena - ***1/2*
Didn't think too much of this one as many others seem to. This may have to do with not watching it live, as I feel that's a very important element to this match. The unpredictability. I knew the result and what the match was going to consist of so the unpredictability wasn't there for me. It was brutal, bloody, and pretty entertaining to watch. Lesnar's loss didn't hurt him and I feel it was the right move. In my opinion this was a good match simply because it was something different, but I don't see it as one that can be called a MOTYC. It was a fucking fight that's for sure.

*Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - ****1/4*

Haven't seen any other match from last night, but I will probably watch the show from top to bottom pretty soon. The three main events met expectations.


----------



## Contrarian (Apr 21, 2012)

Sheamus Vs Bryan is Match of the year.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brock must really like Jimmy Johns?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique, you looked like you had really good seats. (Y)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Another thing, I really like MMA being infused with pro wrestling matches and if done correctly can give matches even more combative feel. Angle/Joe from Lockdown '08 incorporated some MMA into the match (and build) and I thought that came off great too. I don't think they should do it too often because it's so brutal but on special big matches like Lesnar/Cena and Angle/Joe they work so well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Angle/Joe from Lockdown was a really good match. I liked how they had Trigg with Angle and Davis with Joe. I had the chance to go to that show and didn't.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

That was me after Lawler's music hit on RAW. It was only a 2 minute match but fuck, I got to see Bryan Danielson face Jerry fucking Lawler


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

And now we get Punk/Bryan on PPV for the title. Awesome.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Punk V Bryan for the belt in 3 weeks...F yes! No pun intended.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Bryan? OMG! Punk to have a third MOTYC at a PPV in a row? Not to mention the EC was good and the match with Ziggler at the Rumble was great as well. Punk is having a fantastic year thus far.

And if given time, you know these two will deliver. They delivered earlier this year on Raw every time they met, with one of their matches being great. Give them 20 minutes or more at OTL and that's another serious MOTYC for Punk, and actually would be another one for Bryan as well after his match with Sheamus last night.

Speaking of MOTY's, right now my list is like this:

1) Punk/Jericho ER- ****1/4
2) Bryan/Sheamus ER- ****
3) Brock/Cena ER- ****
4) Punk/Jericho WM- ****
5) Taker/HHH WM- ****

Keep in mind I still have to re-watch the ER matches and those are still my first viewing, so some might go down and some might go up.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Quick Extreme Rules star ratings from yours truly.

-Kane/Orton - ***1/4
--Fantastic match, well paced, made use of the stip, a great near fall after the chokeslam from Kane, and a fun finish that I personally enjoyed.

-Clay/Ziggler - **
--Why are we wasting Ziggler like this?

-Show/Rhodes - **3/4
--The finish protects Show and gets Cody his momemtum back while building heat at the same time. Well done.

-Bryan/Sheamus - ****
--Slow start, but strong finish. Every fall was done in a way to protect the other guy. Both men looked good.

-Ryback squash - unrated
--GOLDBERG! GOLDBERG!

-Punk/Jericho - ****1/2
--Great much with loads of awesome spots. Punk was in top form tonight. Just worked so well.

-Divas - **
--Layla looks really good and not just from a beauty aspect.

-Cena/Lesnar - ****1/2
--INSANE match even after having the decision and major spots spoiled for me. Cena took an ass beating. I still believe there was a small portion of shoot fighting amongst that. Small instances, but still. Very convincing and brutal match. Loved it.

Fave matches in order - 1. Punk/Jericho 2. Orton/Kane 3. Cena/Lesnar

Overall, Extreme Rules 2012 - ****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

About halfway through Extreme Rules. Just finished Sheamus/Bryan. It was awesome but did anyone else think Sheamus' selling of the arm could've been much much better?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Extreme Rules 2012 aka WHAT THE BLOODY FUCK???*
Orton|Kane: ***3/4*
Brodus|Dolph: BUMMA BUMMA
Rhodes|Show: ****
Ryback: RYBACK
Bryan|Sheamus: *****1/2*, fblkahscbn;o32i0cn2q09dn2[[email protected]!!~!
Jericho|Punk: ****3/4*
Bellas|Layla: *DUD*
Cena|Lesnar: *****3/4*, fv98hn2d0jn21d pojd09vnm-2q3jfd812g7~!`11!!

WHAT THE BLOODY FUCK?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Sheamus V Bryan is getting hella overrated on here, I mean its was still very good, but Sheamus barely selling the arm after passing out from pain from the "Yes!" Lock was lol worthy, also after Bryan got the second fall it was very obvious as to who was gonna win and the abrupt finish was just that, abrupt.

Punk V Jericho and Cena V Crock were both full on awesome however.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

I agree with *Hohenheim* on Jericho/Punk. In fact, I'd probably have it at ***1/2, maybe even ***1/4. I prefer their Wrestlemania match. The middle portion of the streetfight kind of fought against the story of the match (Punk exacts revenge from Jericho), with Jericho actually dominating Punk dramatically and not especially well in the "heel puts the babyface through hell" kind of way, so much as simply genuinely outsmarting and easily deflecting against him. However, the final eight or ten minutes were pretty great, making it a good, solid streetfight, overall. Hot beginning with Punk's family and the intricate story they told on the outside, but in the ring it kind of choked itself out a bit for a while until they picked it back up for the climax.

I'm looking forward to seeing their Wrestlemania match again, but to me, as a story and a wrestling match, I honestly far preferred that.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Not too fond of the Mania match either, but Jericho|Punk was MADE by the crowd. There were some really good parts such as Punk getting violent over Jericho trying to approach his sister, beer raining down on Punk, the finishing stretch etc, but to me it felt like a rehash of Shawn|Jericho from Unforgiven 08. The fire extinguisher, the whole system of brawling (even though they're both really bad brawlers), the dive through the announce table etc.

Really good match but can't really compare with Bryan|Sheamus or BROCK|CENA, the former of which was beyond amazing and the latter was FH()[email protected]()DJ{)@(_!J{)~!!!

EDIT: AS(JH)(!N D))~~_!IU~!!!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Word said:


> Your the first to give it 5* I think. Whatever Meltzer slaps on by Thursday, I'm sure a few will follow his rating. Full 5 for me? Will need a rewatch, loved it but not to that extent on first watch.


Yeah, I'm taking away the 5 lol. I got caught up in the moment but it can't be given 5* when the finish was so poor and just didn't make sense in the context of the match. For that I'll have it at ****3/4. It was like Cena/Umaga LMS, which I absolutely adore, but even better. No matter what happens with Lesnar from here on out, this match is truly something special and will no doubt stand the test of time as just that.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Ownage™ said:


> About halfway through Extreme Rules. Just finished Sheamus/Bryan. It was awesome but did anyone else think Sheamus' selling of the arm could've been much much better?


A lot of people has save said this and I tend to agree, he didn't see it too well.

I guess that's no more Lesnar for the time being including Triple H. Makes the booking of him losing to Cena even more retarded.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*Kane/Orton - **3/4*
Slightly prefer this to the WrestleMania match.
*Brodus/Ziggler - **
The better of the two "dominant unbeaten force" matches, and Brodus actually has a credible opponent.
*Show/Cody - *3/4*
Disaster kick from the table was great. And a good, surprise ending which Big Show sold great with his facial expression. Probably about as good as the WM match plus you get the extra goodness of Cody getting smashed through two tables afterwards.
*Bryan/Sheamus - *****
My MOTN. Wish there was more near-falls in the final fall though. Most of them were in the first fall and it didn't matter a huge deal then. Loved Bryan's sadistic smile after being DQed.
*Ryback/jobbers - DUD*
What the hell was this? Embarrassing to include non-WWE jobbers on a PPV, and give them MIC TIME?!
*Punk/Jericho - *****
I liked the feel the match had with their street fight attires. Slight sloppiness prevented it from being best match on the night.
*Bella/Layla - 1/2**
Plus an extra half star for Layla's return.
*Lesnar/Cena - ***1/2*
No idea how to rate this. Was great viewing enjoyment but I look unfavourably at the super Cena ending. The Lesnar over-the-top rope botch had me "whoa"ing.


Great PPV overall. Shame about the squash and jobbers matches; if only they were taken out and we had something with a bit more substance. Say, the tag title match from Raw.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Now I have to watch the entire event! Sounds epic.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The only problem I had with Sheamus selling the arm was that he did the back breaker with the arm Bryan had been working over.

Otherwise, I thought he did alright.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> The only problem I had with Sheamus selling the arm was that he did the back breaker with the arm Bryan had been working over.
> 
> Otherwise, I thought he did alright.


yeah that was the only problem I had wih it too. I thought he did well with it whilst still getting in his signature moves (apart from the back breaker).

Really looking forward to Punk/Bryan at the PPV, unless they add Jericho to make a 3-way, in which case it would still be awesome but I would prefer a 1 on 1 match with about 20 minutes or so.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Extreme Rules 2012
Kane v Orton - *** (a solid match but I wasn't a massive fan of some of the backstage fighting and them inevitably ending up back in ring for the fall, felt they could have had a big finish outside in the car park or something, but overall a solid match).

Brodus v Ziggler - * (have to give it something simply for Ziggler's selling of the headbutt, such a waste of both guys, Ziggler is far better than this and I think Brodus is far better than squashes at this point)

Show v Cody - **1/2 (enjoyed the finish, Big Show sold it really well, The disaster kick was a great spot as well. Thought the aftermath was a bit excessive, liked the military press over the top rope but found it on top of the chokeslam unnecessary)

Bryan v Sheamus - ****1/4 (my MOTN, a really good match which told a great story throughout. The selling of the arm was a bit suspect at the end with the Irish Curse and then holding up the belt after the match but this is really nitpicking problems with an otherwise great match)

Ryback v Jobbers - DUD (just a nothing match, I hate the fact WWE is doing these squash matches with 3 of their debuting stars, just want to see something different, almost deserves 1/4* for the Goldberg chants)

Punk v Jericho - **** (a really good match, felt it dragged in places but some good spots and I'd say on par maybe slightly better than their Wrestlemania match)

Bellas v Layla - 1/2* (not a great match by any stretch but certainly not the worst divas match I've seen)

Cena v Lesnar - **** (an absolute WAR, really physical encounter and a brilliant crowd, loved the beatdown throughout the match and thought the finish was good)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just realised I haven't posted anything about ER over here lol. C&P from elsewhere:

So, Cena won huh? Didn't see that coming. Thought the match was done brilliantly though. Nice to see blood once in a while too. Wait... WWE... Blood... ZOMG ATTITUZED ERA IS BACK NO MURE PEEGEE!!!11ONE . Lesnar looked great, Cena looked great taking a beating and making little comebacks but nothing major. Gotta see where they go from here to decide really how I felt about the outcome. ATM it seems more strange that Cena won than anything else.

Enjoyed the PPV for the most part. Orton/Kane was... not too bad. Fell asleep during Show/Cody, woke up right at the end as the bell rang. Didn't see the finish until they did a replay, but given the look on Show's face and the fact he murdered Cody afterwards I guessed it was some crazy shit finish. Gets the belt back on Cody without him having to actually beat Show, but at the same time makes Cody look weak. Brodus Vs Dolph was a nice added bonus, especially when it ended up being more of a real match than Brodus has had as the Funkasaurus so far. Ryback killed 2 skinny guys. Ok. At least Goldberg tore apart the ACTUAL roster in WCW. The guys Ryback is beating probably couldn't take ME in a fight. Give him some actual competition. Have him kill Alex Riley or something. Nobody likes him anyway. Layla returned. Won the divas title. Bella Twins leaving. Was expecting Kharma. Bah.

Bryan/Sheamus was awesome for the most part. First fall was fucking great, and the second fall was perfect given the first fall finish. Third fall finish felt like it came out of nowhere tbh, and ruined the match a little. Not ruined ruined, but didn't exactly feel like the way to end it after what had already done down.

Punk/Jericho was good, but not great. Took me a while to get into it. Crowd seemed fucking DEAD for a lot of it too. Watched MITB 2011 today on DVD and jesus, talk about a HUGE step down in terms of crowd reactions. Sure, MITB had THAT story going into it, but still, it was Punk Vs Jericho and you would have maybe thought they would have been on fire for it lol.

Some STARS~!

Orton/Kane - ** - watchable, but I liked their WM match a ton more, and their SD street fight was a lot better too. Christ knows why they didn't do THAT match at this show lol. In fact, this match was very similar to the house show one I saw earlier this month lol.

Clay/Ziggler - * - Fun match for what it was.

Cody/Show - Fell asleep lol.

Sheamus/Bryan - ****1/4 - Fucking great, just wished that third fall ended a little better. 3rd best MOTY for me so far (behind Undertaker/HHH and Punk/Jericho WM)

Ryback/Jobbers - DUD - Want him to destroy some REAL talent please. Not people who I could probably take.

Punk/Jericho - ***1/2 - Took me a while to get into it, and as good as I thought it was, I didn't think anything was "great" just "really good". WM match was a ton better.

Layla/Bella - Skipped, god bless sky+. Made a pizza to watch with Bryan/Sheamus, so I just paused it for the 10 minutes it took to cook and used those minutes to skip this shit .

Cena/Lesnar - **** - Could have been even better had Cena NOT won. Lesnar was fucking awesome though. As was Cena. Until the finish. Blood happening made it feel really fucking special too. Not even HHH/Undertaker HIAC had blood, but THIS did. Just need to see where they go from here now. Looks like a fuck up, but hey, so did Bryan/Sheamus at WM. And technically it still was, and the finish to this still will be, but it could lead to something good afterwards hopefully lol.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Okay, I finished watching the show last night right before RAW, and here are my thoughts. This is a _good_ show, not a great one. I think people are possibly overhyping it a bit on the basis that it's a lot better than most PPVS, and yes, probably the best PPV since MITB '11, but I still don't think it's great. It had a very nice lineup and if nothing else, the crowd was amazing. Chicago is clearly a great town, and proof that with the right product, people will make a lot of noise. Ironic that this comes a couple of weeks after the worst crowd in wrestling history at Lockdown. My thoughts:

*Falls Count Anywhere*: Randy Orton vs. Kane
I just didn't love this match. While Orton/Kane is a star pairing, these two just didn't have a great series. The match at WM was kind of stilted, and this was no different. Not bad at all, but this rematch kind of reminded me of the NoDQ matches you see nowadays in TNA: familiar spots, lots of crowd brawling for a pop, but never really goes to the next level. A solid enough opener.

**3/4

Brodus Clay vs. Dolph Ziggler
Entertaining enough. All action for four minutes, good bumping, Swagger interference was fun, and this was good for the time it got, and given that Clay is still a comedy act.

**

*Tables Match for the Intercontinental Title*: Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes
Again, this was good for the time it got. I'm a little disappointed that this was somehow shorter than their already short WM match, as they clearly could have had a solid 8-9 minute match, but as everyone else said, the finish was original, clever, and Big Show's expression was perfect and logical. He just looked at the ref like "wait, did that count?"

**

*2-out-of-3 Falls Match for the World Heavyweight Championship*: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan
For the first two falls, I thought "now THIS is a 2/3 falls match." They didn't go for the cheap first fall, which always gets a pop and puts the match into immediate climax mode. They let them really wrestle. Bryan getting dq-ed would have been an acceptable finish even in a regular one-on-one TV match, so that this was the first fall was even more exciting. Finally beating Sheamus into the Yes lock was even more perfect. Anyone complaining about DB looking weak at WM should hopefully see just how destructive he could be. He was clearly out-wrestling the big guy and was smart enough to know that getting dq-ed was worth it if he was going to keep kicking the arm. Sheamus passing out also made them both look great. I love the refs and meds attending to Sheamus to sell the passing out, while DB cheers himself on. I love even more that when Sheamus finally got up, DB charged him and ran right into the kick.

Then it went downhill for me. This turned into straight up SuperSheamus, where he just made a "miraculous comeback", hit all of his major moves, then his finisher, and got in the win. It was terribly anticlimactic for a match so effectively building up to a big finish. They could have traded counters and nearfalls for a minute or so, with Sheamus getting the out of nowhere win, and both would have looked great. Instead, Sheamus just shook it off and won. To me, great matches don't end that uncreatively and abruptly. Good match ruined by the akwardness of fall 3.

***1/2

Ryback vs. Two Jobbers
PPV is not a place matches that belong on Superstars 20 years ago. A PPV is three hours long and while not every match can be a main event, they should make the most of their time. A rookie monster face vs. two jobbers it not worth that time. First of all, Ryback is a horrible name. It sounds like bareback, which is wrong on so many levels. It also doesn't sound threatining or cool, and his costume looks weird. Squashes like this to nothing for anyone. 

DUD

*Chicago Street Fight for the WWE Championship*: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho
As many others have said, and as I noticed myself, this really did remind of the Unsanctioned match between Jericho and HBK. And personally, I didn't like that match. Both had a good personal buildup (involving family, of course), a hot crowd, and was never boring.

But aside from the big elbow drop, none of this felt all that special. They brawled, used weapons, and what I liked was this match was completely different from their match at WM. Nice to see two guys have a rematch unlike their first. It's like a sequel that stays true to the original while going in an unexpected direction.

It had some nice intensity at the end, but to me, this series, like Punk/Mysterio, has never reached its full potential. I honestly thought these would be classics, and they're not. They're good, but not great. Solid match.

***3/4

*Divas Title*: Nikki Bella vs. Layla
You know what? For the less than three minutes they got, this was all action, not sloppy, and got tricky at the end. I can never rate a match this short that highly, but it did its job.

*3/4

*Extreme Rules*: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar
Before I read any other comments and I saw photos of this match, I thought: "surreal." This match just had a surreal, entrancing atmosphere. Maybe because it was Lesnar's first match in eight years against John Cena, or the MMA trunks, of the sight of largely unmonitored blood at a PPV since 2008 (not counting HIAC last month), but this match truly felt surreal.

It had that "big fight feel" that so many matches lack these days. John Cena, the biggest wrestling star since Stone Cold, against the man who vacated the same spot 8 years ago, Brock Lesnar, in a NoDQ match.

So I'll give credit to a few things. Just this kind of pairing is huge. The built-in story of Cena being THE guy, Lesnar being for a payday, is too true to not be compelling. And the crowd was raucous in the best way.

But this match really felt special from the beginning, as Lesnar just pummeled Cena. Cena getting busted open in the first minute let us know this would be unlike any other match. Lesnar looked brutal, fast, monstrous, just an amazing heel. Cena making comebacks here and there told a very nice story, too, but what I liked about this match against other SuperCena matches is that, because of the stiffness, this really did look like the heel was killing Cena. There was some great offense, too, as Lesnar pulled out some great germans, some flying tackles, and maintained intensity throughout.

I fully understand people being pissed about Cena winning and then cutting a promo after, but I'm okay with it. Lesnar winning his first match back and Cena losing two ppvs in a row almost would have been too predictable, and as many have said, Lesnar could have won the match any time he wanted, but chose not to. This wasn't like Miz desperately TRYING to make Cena quit. This was a guy just toying with him and not capitalizing when he should have. Cena hit a bit shot with the chain, got the AA, and got a nice win.

Think about it like this: back in 2005, Triple H was gone for three months, and his second match back, got beat by Ric Flair in a cage. And this was already after HHH had been beaten three times in a row that year by Batista. A good enough heel can look brutal, play with their opponent, and get caught. Everyone said the reason Cena lost at WM 28 was because he got cocky. As this match showed us, he took advantage the way Rocky did.

This was kind of like a better structured version of UT/Mankind HIAC: just an absolute trainwreck made my its sheer brutality and atmosphere. Was this a great wrestling match? Absolutely not. It wasn't full of counters, and psychology, and all that good stuff. It was just 18 minutes of brutal mayhem, and while the match is untraditional, it truly felt special. And the end was very nice to see.

****


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

****1/2 for Sheamus/Bryan
****1/4 for Punk/Jericho

My top 5 for the year looks something like this

1. Taker/HHH (Mania 28)
2. Cena/Lesnar (Extreme Rules)
3. Punk/Henry (Raw 4/2)
4. Sheamus/Bryan (Extreme Rules)
5. Punk/Jericho (Extreme Rules)

Need to see those Punk/Bryan matches again though. I remember liking one just as much as my number 5.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

does anybody loves those moments in matches when foe example in a classic one on one match up the two wrestler just wrestler for a short time but then kinda stop and and the crowd is cheering for cool perfromance?
hm its kinda hard to explain what I mean


----------



## x-angel (Mar 19, 2011)

*ER 2012 and April 30th 2012 Raw review*

I decided to not let my opinions be known about Extreme Rules 2012 until after the Raw from Last Night. I know – all of you were just waiting with baited breath for my opinion (/end sarcasm)

The ER 2012 was pretty solid, and I would have to rank it better than WM28. MOTN: It is a close tie between Sheamus/Bryan and Punk/Jericho. Rhodes/Big Show was stupid. Kana/Orton, Divas, and other jobber matches didn’t interest me, but they were better than WM28.

The whole Lesnar/Cena fight was ok – I can’t believe they had Cena blade within the first minute or so of the match. I mean dear God; you can see Cena pull the blade from his wrist cuff, and the blade lying on the mat. 

So Lesnar beats the living hell out Cena, and then all of a sudden, an AA on the steps, shut Lesnar down, and Cena gives his little “I might have to take a vacation” speech, only to show up on Raw last night. 

So that brings me to Raw from last night: Trips comes out, and he really sold the anger that he was supposed to have. Strips Brock of all the perks, shuts Johnny up, and then gets attacks and has his arm kayfabe broken.

I was surprised that Punk didn’t come out to help Trips, but I was very surprised to see Truth there. I was hoping that there would have been a stare down between Punk and Brock. (Yes – I am a Punk mark)

So then we have the beat the clock matches, even though I don’t like the Miz character, I think he deserves better than being jobbed by Santino as he is a pretty good mic worker, and a good in-ring worker. They are really over jobbing him. Is there something going on with Mike that we don’t know? Why is creative doing this to him? 

Then we have the TTC open challenge with Kofi and Truth winning. So I guess Truths face turn is complete. That was a pretty decent match.

Final Beat the Clock Match with Bryan and Lawler – talk about a jobber. And then Punk comes out for a whole whopping 2 minutes. I still think that somewhere down the line that Brock will try and get Bryan to put his #1 Contendership status up, so that he can “bring the pain” to Punk. However, with the apparent conflicts that are happening behind the scenes, this will probably not happen. I think it is confirmation that there are legit concerns behind the scenes with Brock that he was NOT in the Beat the Clock matches.

Then we have the whole Cena/Johnny Ace thing. Oh my God – Laurinitis against Cena? WHY? WTF is the point of this?

Another thing that is really ticking me off about the creative/booking: I don’t care who the WWE Champ is, I don’t think he should be playing second fiddle to a non-belt holder. I know that for a good amount of time, Rock was not a belt holder, but he was the “face” of the company even when Trips was the belt holder, but they had an active feud going on, so it worked. You have the WWE Champ – Punk – not headlining PPV or even the weekly shows... WTF is that? 

The holder of the “most coveted prize in sports entertainment” is playing second fiddle to a guy(s) that don’t have a belt or just make a temporary return? Like I said – I am a Punk mark - but even with that, the WWE Champ should have first billing, not some performer who is going through some sort of identity crisis. (Cena) 

I just don’t know why they are doing this. 

I am looking forward to Punk/Bryan. Similar styles, etc. But for some reason, I don’t see Bryan getting to OTL.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Cena never bladed, he got busted open by an elbow from Brock, you can see it happen in real time.


----------



## x-angel (Mar 19, 2011)

ok - my thread gopt moved here - why?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

x-angel said:


> ok - my thread gopt moved here - why?


You review shows/matches here, the Raw thread or the official PPV thread. Do you know how many threads we'd have if everyone made one for their review of a show/match?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Because if everyone made a thread on their opinion of extreme rules we would have hundreds of them, the same goes with RAW. Sticky threads are there for a reason, to stop countless threads being made and all topic of conversation can be in one thread for all to see and discuss.


----------



## x-angel (Mar 19, 2011)

Word said:


> Cena never bladed, he got busted open by an elbow from Brock, you can see it happen in real time.


Sorry - he bladed - you can see him take the blade out of the wristcuff. The camera angles and cuts prove that. After the clothesline from Brock, Cena rolls over and pulls the blade from wrist cuff. The camera changes to Brock, and then all of a sudden Cena is bleeding. He bladed.


----------



## R'Albin (Oct 4, 2011)

Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Finally Bryan Danielson gets a oppurtunity to show-off his incredible in-ring skills in a 20 minute plus matchup. Last Sunday he showed that he has the ability to have a quality match with pretty much any superstar on the roster if given the time.

Don’t get me wrong – by no means did Bryan carry Sheamus - Sheamus did very well and probably wrestled the best match of his career to date. I do think though that he undersold the arm that Bryan assaulted throughout the match. Which incidentally I found very refreshing, with some original holds like when he stretched the fingers.

I thought the first fall was a good move. It made Bryan look clever and very sneaky, especially when the camera panned to his smug face. The second fall irritated me slightly, it was good that Bryan won it but Sheamus should’ve tapped.(Obviously that was never going to happen since Sheamus is a top babyface and top babyfaces never submit) Bryan then had the crowd going absolutely berserk just by waving his arms repeatedly in the air whilst Sheamus was down. Bryan kicking out of the brogue kick afterwards was also a good move, it made him look a lot stronger.

The end of the match was a little flat, with Sheamus going through his signature moves then proceeding to pin Bryan. It felt like Bryan needed to mount some sort of comeback only to be hit with a Brogue kick, instead of just Sheamus going through the motions.

****1/2

CM Punk vs Jericho – Was a pretty enjoyable match. The emotion that I felt from both competitors throughout was amazing, there was a nice concoction of hardcore and wrestling as well. I really enjoyed Punk’s family having to watch him get beaten down by Jericho and then Punk coming back. The announcer’s table spot was pretty awesome from Punk, when he almost fell of the ropes he inadvertently sold his injuries I thought, even though it seemed accidental.

Just like Bryan vs Sheamus though the ending was a little flat, with Jericho going for The GTS only for it to be reversed into a GTS from Punk himself and then him winning via pinfall. In my opinion it should have finished with Punk locking in Walls of Jericho and then Jericho having to tap while facing CM Punk’s family, it would have been a lot more appropriate.

***3/4

John Cena vs Brock – Lesnar

One of the most original matches I’ve seen in WWE. It’s the closest I’ve seen to real in the WWE. It started off with Lesnar elbowing Cena repeatedly in the skull, with Cena getting busted open in the process. Then to the dismay of myself and the fans in attendance the doctors came into the ring and wiped the blood off. The process then repeated itself with the fans getting more agitated.

As the match progressed Lesnar dominated, Cena occasionally got a flurry of moves in but aside from that it was all Lesnar. This really put Lesnar over as a beast, and made him look damn near unbeatable.

Eventually though out of nowhere, after receiving a pummeling throughout the match, Lesnar gets complacent and runs chargers towards Cena who’s out the ring. Cena cheap shots him with a chain then goes in the ring, and gives him an Attitude Adjustment onto the steel ring steps and is victorious via pinfall.

The finish of the match irritated a lot of fans including myself at the time, but after putting some thought into the day after, irritated me a little less.

Cena’s win was not remotely clean. He got pinned for about 7 seconds in the middle of the match and there were points were Brock could have pinned Cena but didn’t – wanting to inflict more punishment first. Cena won the match by a cheap shot and hitting what is a very powerful finishing move (Kayfabe).

Additionally, Brock Lesnar would’ve looked unstoppable if he’d won last night. He would’ve absolutely destroyed the man who’s the number one face of the WWE. Let’s say a few months down the line they want him to put over somebody like CM Punk, would it look remotely realistic if he beat the man who had destroyed John Cena - who has at one point defeated pretty much everyone on the roster? I don’t think it would.

I do disagree with the decision to have Cena win, however I do not believe it is as disastrous as everyone is making it out to be.

**** 1/2


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

x-angel said:


> Sorry - he bladed - you can see him take the blade out of the wristcuff. The camera angles and cuts prove that. After the clothesline from Brock, Cena rolls over and pulls the blade from wrist cuff. The camera changes to Brock, and then all of a sudden Cena is bleeding. He bladed.


He didn't


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao Why the hell would Cena blade _on the top of his head_ instead of on his forehead like normal lol? Don't be silly. It's clear as day that he was opened up the hard way.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Cena didnt blade that bleeding was done by accident you could see the tip of his elbow collide stiffly with his skull


----------



## R'Albin (Oct 4, 2011)

If Cena had bladed then why on earth would they come on and clean him up?


----------



## CM_Skippy (May 1, 2012)

Finally watching Extreme Rules and just finished *Sheamus/Bryan*. A really really good match made even better by that incredible Chicago crowd. I honestly think it would be getting even higher ratings if it had taken place in ROH. The only faults I can think of is Sheamus not selling the arm enough but that's nit-picking really and the slight flatness of the ending - ****1/2 for me


----------



## x-angel (Mar 19, 2011)

Okay - I stand corrected - I just looked at the footage again that was AFTER the clothesline, but BEFORE the reaching for the wristcuff - there is a blood smatter on Cena's left leg, and a distinct red spot on the top of his head. 

So - I admit to when I am wrong - I just didn't see it clearly until now. It just seemed like he reached for a blade. 

I was wrong - forgive me. That was a legit cut.


----------



## R'Albin (Oct 4, 2011)

Everyone's favourite cage matches?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

R'Albin said:


> Everyone's favourite cage matches?


Rhodes vs. Flair springs to mind.

Because there is a lot of Punk hate on this forum, and it's increasing massively I'm going to review his current title reign and see how it shapes up. Starting with Survivor Series 2011 against ADR.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Pumped for Daniel Bryan/CM Punk hope they don't replace Bryan but I wouldn't put it past WWE to do so.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

R'Albin said:


> Everyone's favourite cage matches?


HHH vs Flair
Cm Punk vs Jeff Hardy
Kane vs Edge
Kane vs XPac
Kane vs RVD
Big Show vs JBL
Eddie Guerrero vs JBL
Jericho vs Christian
Austin vs Rock

Love the Kane vs smaller guy in cage matches. It allows him to be the destructive monster, but also give the smaller guy a chance to win realistically and the three which I have listed are all a lot of fun.


----------



## Warren Zevon (Dec 15, 2011)

R'Albin said:


> Everyone's favourite cage matches?












Not one of my favorite Malenko vs. Benoit matches, but that diving headbutt from the top of the cage at 4:20 makes the match great.


----------



## x-angel (Mar 19, 2011)

> Everyone's favourite cage matches?


Jacob Cass vs. Kevin Nash

(will wait to see how many people get this  )


----------



## Anguyen92 (Jun 24, 2011)

I enjoyed the Umaga/Hardy cage match on the first Raw of 2008. Was pretty all right, both guys played their roles well, and we get an awesome spot in the end. Plus, Orton, who was the WWE champion at the time, played his role as interested observer well, he kept on encouraging Umaga to destroy Hardy (he was the #1 contender at the time).


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

WWE Extreme Rules:
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus: Great match, very creative first and second falls. ****
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho: Ambitious with what they tried to incorporate, and as a result didn't flow as well as their WM singles. Still good though. ****1/4 
Lesnar vs Cena: In Which Brock Lesnar Forgets Wrestling Is Staged (but he did remember to work the left arm well - almost too well) ****1/2


R'Albin said:


> Everyone's favourite cage matches?


Matt Hardy vs Edge 2005. It's just really good; Matt Hardy plays a wonderful babyface and Edge a wonderful heel. And by wonderful heel, I mean completely despicable.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Kane-UK said:


> HHH vs Flair
> Cm Punk vs Jeff Hardy
> Kane vs Edge
> Kane vs XPac
> ...


Orton/Kane had a cage match in 04 it ws quite funny the guy got his ass whipped by Kane 99% of the time


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Simply Flawless said:


> Orton/Kane had a cage match in 04 it ws quite funny the guy got his ass whipped by Kane 99% of the time


I think I remember that vaguely... Was it after Orton's face turn? Seem to remember HHH organising the match...


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

The first one that comes to mind is Flair/HHH at Taboo Tuesday. For me, this match works on so many levels. It's a "cagey" veteran vs. a top guy, a bitter grudge feud, an absolute war, makes spectacular use of blood, feels like legitimate hate, and could have gone either way. I watched it again recently and just loved it. This really might be the best cage match ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlund Vs Slaughter and HHH Vs Flair are my favourite cage matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge/Hardy for cage matches. Awesome match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that Lesnar/Cena will join the status of "matches that would have been MOTY if the Undertaker didn't exist". Seriously, that needs to become a consistent award until Taker retires because let's be honest here, the man has just brought it on a level not seen before at WM the past 6 years. I haven't rewatched either Lesnar/Cena or HHH/Taker III yet, but right now they both stand at ***** 3/4*. 

Favorite cage match ? I'm either gonna go with HHH-Flair or Blanchard-Magnum. IMO there hasn't been a single ***** cage match, which is insane considering that the steel cage is probably the most widely used gimmick match in all of wrestling. Not the biggest fan of Hardy-Edge from Unforgiven 05, but that's the next PPV I'm going to watch so I'll be able to grasp a stronger opinion then.

I've been watching a SHITLOAD of 2005 PPV's lately, as I have the entire set now. I've done about 5-6 full reviews that I've been just too lazy to post, but I've made a few observations so far. For instance, I fucking LOVE the Barbed Wire Steel Cage match between JBL and The Big Show. I only have it at **** 1/2* but god damn is it sweet. Off to finish GAB 05 now, which after the first 3 matches has surprisingly been decently good. Always wanted to see the first JBL-Batista match, since I loved their D.C. Streetfight. CAN'T WAIT !


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Matt Hardy v Edge and HHH v Flair are my favorite (and the best) WWE cage matches. Jeff Hardy v CM Punk deserves a mention.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

My fav cage Match is Angle vs Anderson From Lockdown 10.But in the E its Probably Matt vs Edge from Unfogiven 05

Has Meltzer rated ER yet?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm kinda pissed that Bryan/Sheamus never got given a proper series of PPV matches. Going by the 2/3 Falls Match, they have brilliant chemistry. On the other hand, this match stands out for its uniqueness, and is EASILY both Sheamus and Bryan's best match in the WWE.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Kane-UK said:


> I think I remember that vaguely... Was it after Orton's face turn? Seem to remember HHH organising the match...


Yes it started out as a normal match then Triple H came out and it became a cage match, Kane kicked the boy's ass all over the ring it was quite a good match actually


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I basically stopped watching wrestling for a year and a half. I got excited because I heard that Extreme Rules didn't suck absolute dick, but I didn't get a chance to see it. Now, as we all know, I can't review matches that I haven't seen, so here's a Randy Orton/Shawn Michaels Match instead.

*Randy Orton (c) vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 2007, WWE Championship match*










Match opens with Michaels employing a side headlock on Orton, a little chain wrestling occurs, and then Michaels locks in the neck vice. Snapmare into a short pinfall attempt. Orton tries to roll through, but Michaels holds on. Orton tries to break out with some punches, and eventually a body slam, but Michaels holds on again. He's eventually forced into the corner, and Orton starts to unload on the number one contender. Orton trying to goad Michaels into super kicking him was a nice touch. Michaels feigns the kick, Orton covers up, and is taken down by a tackle. Back to the side headlock, Michaels is sent off into the ropes, but he hits the champ with a shoulder block. Orton tries to trip him up one the next one, but Michaels is a step ahead, and locks in a rear-naked chinlock. Eventually we're back to the neck vice. Orton tries to break out a few times with some throws, but Michaels holds on. The champ decides to take a breather by squirming outside the ring. Michaels feigns going over the top rope, but goes low with a kick, hitting Orton in the abdomen. Follows it up with a springboard moonsault. A "bit of the HBK we've come to know and love", after a slow and methodical beginning to the match.

Michaels gets Orton back in the ring and goes for a crossbody from the top. Orton rolls through for a two count, follows up with a nasty European uppercut. Orton throws Michaels into the ropes, goes for a kick to the abdomen, gets caught. Michaels locks in the Sharpshooter. Absolutely love the way that he's forced to throw in all these submission holds, in lieu of his finisher. Orton makes it to the ropes and rolls out to the apron. Thumb to the eye and a hangman- nice heel tactics. Orton starts to pick apart Michaels with the stomps and knees, hits the rope-hung DDT for a two count. Orton locks in his own rear-naked chinlock now, and Michaels starts to fade before powering up. Elbows to the abdomen by Michaels to get out, and the two start to slug it out- Michaels with chops, Orton with right hands. Crowd are really getting into it, now. Hits Orton with the flying forearm, and does the kip up after some weird twitching movements. Michaels hits the inverted atomic drop, and a couple of right hands. Goes for another atomic drop, but Orton forces his way out and hits Michaels with a beautiful dropkick. Two count. Orton throws Michaels into the ropes, goes for the dropkick, but gets caught up. Roll up by Michaels for a two count. Michaels is really having to take advantage of Orton's mistakes. Scoop slam and the flying elbow drop. Crowd wants the Sweet Chin Music. Michaels tunes up the band and feigns a kick, but turns it into an inside cradle after Orton tries to protect his face. Two count. Michaels goes for a crucifix here, but it looks really awkward and he just tries turning it into a sunset flip. Orton counters by sitting on him for a two count. Orton goes for a clothesline, but Michaels counters into a Crippler Crossface. Big pop.










Orton nearly taps out, but he gets to the rope with his foot. The crowd is pissed. Michaels goes for another crossface, but Orton rolls out and hits a *nasty* clothesline. Orton starts to take control with an inverted backbreaker, and he gets down to set up the RKO. Changes his mind, however, and goes for the punt. Michaels counters, and sets up an Ankle Lock. Orton tries to get to the ropes, but Michaels sets up a grapevine and traps him in the middle of the ring. Orton gets close to tapping before reversing the pressure and kicking Michaels in the head a few times. Does a nice job of selling the leg here, going for a clumsy kick with his left foot. Michaels counters and goes for a Figure Four, but is kicked into the ringpost. HBK's head has been taking a lot of punishment. Orton goes for the RKO, gets countered into the ropes. He floats over, and Michaels goes for the Sweet Chin Music, but hesitates. Orton hits a brutal RKO on Michaels for the pinfall.










Really cool match. Starts off a little slow, but that's to be expected given the match stipulation. It was really nice to see Michaels try and wrestle without access to his finisher. He busted out a lot of nice holds, and Orton's selling off the leg towards the end was subtle, but fun to watch. Don't know what happened with that crucifix into a sunset flip. Whether or not it was a botch doesn't matter, because it looked sloppy. Ending was awesome, and a really nice ending to a well told story. Probably one of Orton's best matches, and an overlooked classic. *****1/4*


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Obis said:


> But I think my favorite is this one...
> 
> HHH running at Taker who's down on the mat (well... fast walking). Taker sits up, HHH falls backwards. Hilarious and awesome at the same time. Anyone have a gif of that?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*SUMMERSLAM 2002*

Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio

Ric Flair vs. Chris Jericho

Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero
*
WWE World Tag Team Championship:*
The Un-Americans (c) vs. Booker T and Goldust

*WWE Intercontinental Championship:*
Chris Benoit (c) vs. Rob van Dam

The Undertaker vs. Test

*Unsanctioned Match:*
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H

*WWE Undisputed Championship:*
The Rock (c) vs. Brock Lesnar​
Just watched Summerslam 2002 and it is quite easily one of my favourite PPV's of all time and for me definitely the best ever Summerslam PPV in history. I mean the card was brilliant and some of the matches on show were really enjoying to watch.

The show starts off with Kurt Angle up against Rey Mysterio making his first PPV appearance with the WWE. I thought it was a brilliant match for an opener, two very good workers putting on a fast-paced match is always bound to get the crowd involved and they loved it. Some people think the wrong guy went over here but I actually think Rey Mysterio looked just as good in losing as he would have in victory. I give the match ***1/2 stars.

I was actually very disappointed with the next match between Chris Jericho and Ric Flair. Considering the two involved it was a major disappointment. I don't think they played up the Jericho trying to out-cheat Flair bit enough and the match suffered from it, an off night for Jericho for sure. The crowd was dead for most of it too, they did go on to have a much better match at Unforgiven but that was suffered from an even worse finish. I give this match a * star and that is pretty generous, honestly.

Next up we had Edge vs. Guerrero. Edge was on a role as a singles wrestler at the time, he had an awesome awesome feud with Kurt Angle and had then moved on to Guerrero after a brief tag title run with his hero Hulk Hogan. During the match Michael Cole actually called Edge "the future of SmackDown", how true did that prove to be? I'm sure most people on here, like me think that watching Guerrero work is just a joy. For me, what makes this match really good is that both men didn't forget about the body part that they had worked on the entire match and it was important right up to the finish, you don't see that a lot nowadays. Edge's series of matches with Kurt Angle and now Eddie Guerrero were turning him into Smackdown's fastest rising star. The two would go on to have a couple of other great matches in the coming months, including that NO DQ match! I give this match ***1/2 stars, but I say it edges Angle/Mysterio as the match of the night so far.

Up next you had the Lance Storm and Christian as The Un-Americans up against Booker T and Goldust, everyone's favourite tag team! At the time The Un-Americans were a pretty generic heel stable that had a good run in the year whilst Booker and Goldust had got ridiculously over as a team due to their hilarious comedy skits backstage. I thought this was a great little tag match. The heels used all the tricks in the book to keep the isolation period interesting and build up anticipation for the hot tag. It got really good down the stretch. I give it **1/2 stars, which doesn't mean it's bad but I don't think it was as good as the two that got 3 and a half stars. 

The next match takes over as match of the night most definitely. It was Chris Benoit up against Rob van Dam, this was for the Intercontinental Championship. Just an awesome awesome match in every way possible. Van Dam worked really hard and had one of his best WWE matches but Chris Benoit was just brilliant throughout, controlling the match and working the shoulder. They used some nice psychology and eventually won the crowd over. Big thumbs for this match. I give this match a **** rating, I loved every moment of it!

Next up we had The Undertaker vs. Test, a match I didn't really have high hopes for. A match I thought would probably be rivaling Flair/Jericho for worst match of the night. I was wrong. Much better than one would expect. Taker was coming off the back of a not-so-successful heel run, which I personally enjoyed, and Test was a member of the Un-Americans so this was a natural fit really. When Test was motivated he could be a really good big guy. Test had a few surprisingly good matches around this time and this was one of them. Taker brought it and Test excelled, but the wrong guy went over in my opinion. I give this match **3/4 stars.

My body was pumped for what was next. It was the unsanctioned match between Triple H and Shawn Michaels. 4 years out, he's finally back in a WWE ring. One of my favourites during the 90s, thinking he'd never be seen wrestling again, just to see him back was absolutely brilliant. One of my favourite matches of all time quite easily. This was absolutely fantastic. Shawn is a miracle worker and proved it here, while Triple H was looking as good and as crisp as he did prior to his first quad injury. Not only was the match, storytelling and drama off the charts, but even the minor characters like Hebner and JR were awesome here. I loved the storytelling throughout, two of the best story tellers of their generation (really was an end of an era at Wrestlemania 28). Michaels was looking to prove he was still the showstopper early and took it to The Game who didn’t expect Michaels to be ready for the match. Triple H soon took over and the work on the back was one of the few times when "methodical offence" looks good as Triple H came off as a massive prick for targeting the back so viciously and it served to get the crowd emotionally involved in the match. Shawn would get his second wind and really take it to Triple H leading to the finish, and the after-match antics put over Triple H's resentment of Shawn. A phenomenal effort by Michaels and The Game. I give this match a maximum ***** stars. Could be biast towards my love for the match but I thought it deserved it.

Next up was the big one, the main event, the passing of the torch so to speak. It was Brock vs. The Rock, it was for the Undisputed championship. Brock had had something of a meteoric rise early in his WWE career, winning the King of the Ring and beating Hulk Hogan on his way to this match. Rock was on his way to Hollywood full-time so there wasn’t much doubt as to the outcome. It was an explosive match from start to finish, but you'd expect that whenever The Rock is in the ring. The crowd were just as explosive and electric. They managed to keep the theme of Lesnar working on the ribs throughout the match but change it up and keep things interesting. It was WWE main event style to the max and it had the crowd off their seats the entire time. The reversal sequence at the end was great and summed up what the match was all about, explosive, edge of your seat action. I give the match **** stars and I thought it was the second best match of the night, just edging Benoit's and van Dam's Intercontinental title match.

Not only was nearly every single match on the card very good to fantastic, but Summerslam 2002 was also a very memorable show for many reasons. First of all you have the culmination of Brock's reign of terror as he wins the WWE Championship for the first time, beating The Rock's record as youngest WWE Champion of all time, in convincing fashion and in a great match, and then there is the epic Shawn Michaels return match that is pretty unforgettable. Every match felt really important either due to little things like a pre-match interview, the backstage banter of Eric Bischoff and Stephanie McMahon or the fact that Shawn Michaels was wrestling his first match in four years. Flair/Jericho was a disappointment and actually killed the crowd for the next couple of matches but looking past that, I'll go on record as saying that this show was the best PPV since Wrestlemania 17.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

I found an old VHS I thought I had long lost from when I was a kid(Summerslam 92), I watched it and it was so much fun. You dont get PPV's like that nowdays.

Anyway, its got me in the mood for some Summerslam viewings. Top 10 Summerslam matches anyone?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

booned said:


> Anyway, its got me in the mood for some Summerslam viewings. Top 10 Summerslam matches anyone?


Perfect/Hart '91
Hart/Smith '92
Hart/Hart '94
Michaels/Ramon '95
Rock/HHH '98
TLC '00
Austin/Angle '01
HHH/HBK '02
Angle/Lesnar '03
Undertaker/Edge '08


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Undertaker I'm really happy for you and I'MMA let you finish but Triple H/Austin NWO is STILL HHH's best match ever!


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Nah, that match was utter crap.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I think Foley/Flair I Quit from SS 06 was a sick match in both senses of the word. Flair and Foley both put on incredible performances considering there age. That would be in my top 5 of SS matches at the minimum, really enjoyed the fight.


----------



## peep4life (Jun 1, 2005)

Caponex75 said:


> Undertaker I'm really happy for you and I'MMA let you finish but Triple H/Austin NWO is STILL HHH's best match ever!


I agree with this, followed closely by the street fight wiht Foley


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I love the 3 Stages of Hell. Felt like they really hated each other and the pace they kept for the entire match was unbelievable.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

In chronological order: 

Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart - 1991
Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog - 1992
Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys vs. The Dudleys - 2000
Stone Cold vs. Kurt Angle - 2001
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - 2002
The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar - 2002
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - 2003
John Cena vs. Randy Orton - 2007
The Undertaker vs. Edge - 2008
Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk - 2009
Team WWE vs. The Nexus - 2010
Christian vs. Randy Orton - 2011


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

No love for Warrior / Savage?

I thought it was remarkable.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Caponex75 said:


> Undertaker I'm really happy for you and I'MMA let you finish but Triple H/Austin NWO is STILL HHH's best match ever!


Don't agree with Austin/HHH being HHH's best match (that belongs to his match with Foley at RR), but it is better than any of Taker and HHH's matches imo.

As for Summerslam matches to watch, from best-worst my top 5 off the top of my head:

Angle/Austin SS01
Taker/Edge SS08 HIAC
HBK/HHH SS02 Street Fight
Angle/Lesnar SS03
Rock/Lesnar SS02

This is just off the top of my head quickly, but the only ones cemented are the top. 3-5 aren't as concrete.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

There are plenty of other SummerSlam matches I love. Warrior/Savage is one of them along with Taker/Hart, Angle/Mysterio, Benoit/RVD, Rock/Brock, Hart Foundation/Brain Busters, Hart Foundation/Demolition, Hardy/Punk, etc.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

@Ruiner87 Randy Orton's best match ever right there; also, my MOTY for 2007.

Best SummerSlam matches? *Bret Hart vs. Dave Boy Smith (1992), TLC I (2000), Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin (2001), Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (2002), and Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar (2003).*

There have been other fantastic matches in SummerSlam history but those matches are the ones. I'm not fond of Bret/Perfect from SummerSlam 1991. It's a good match and THE moment for Bret Hart, but their KOTR match--two years later--puts it to shame. Can't blame it though. THIS (KOTR) was Perfect at his best, while SummerSlam 1991 saw Perfect at his crippled best.

Mr. Perfect was indeed _perfect_.


----------



## peep4life (Jun 1, 2005)

Punk Cena from Summerslam was great as well, obviously not as good as MITB but still fantastic. Unfortunately it lead to Del Rio getting the title after


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Punk/Cena from Summerslam was a better match than MITB imo. It was almost perfect apart from the end but even that I didn't have a problem with. The crowd was great (not as good as MITB of course) and the match they worked was amazing. That was my WWE MOTY last year, I had it rated at ****3/4.

Last time I watched the HHH/Foley street fight I didn't think it was as good as I remembered, but still really good obviously. I personally prefer HHH/Shwan from Summerslam 02 I think.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I like a lot of Triple H matches, but his absolute best performances have to be Fully Loaded against Chris Jericho and Vengeance against Batista. Thinking about it, the performance he put at last year's WrestleMania is right up there as well. I'm just talking of performances here.

On the same topic, I really ADORE this match between Hunter and Jeff from No Mercy 2008.


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

I'm watching the Edge DVD at the moment, it's telling a really good story but the production is a little weak. They could have been a bit more cutting edge (pardon the pun) with it.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

just1988 said:


> I'm watching the Edge DVD at the moment, it's telling a really good story but the production is a little weak. They could have been a bit more cutting edge (pardon the pun) with it.


They totally skipped the Rated RKO era which is a load of BS


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

booned said:


> I found an old VHS I thought I had long lost from when I was a kid(Summerslam 92), I watched it and it was so much fun. You dont get PPV's like that nowdays.
> 
> Anyway, its got me in the mood for some Summerslam viewings. Top 10 Summerslam matches anyone?


Hart/Perfect -1991
Hart/Hart - 1994
Michaels/Ramon - 1995
Angle/Austin - 2001
Michaels/Triple H - 2002
Angle/Lesnar - 2003
Orton/Benoit -2004
Cena/Orton - 2007
Undertaker/Edge - 2008
Christian/Orton - 2011


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Watched a few Punk matches in his second WWE title reign, pretty impressed.

vs. Jericho at Extreme Rules - ****1/4
vs. Jericho at Wrestlemania - ****
vs. Alberto Del Rio at Survivor Series - ****
vs. Miz vs. Alberto Del Rio at TLC - ****
vs. Henry I at RAW - ***1/2
vs. Ziggler at Royal Rumble - ***1/2

There's probably a few RAW & SD matches he's been involved in but so far it's been a pretty good reign. I love the Surivor Series match, ADR is an excellent worker imo.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Looking forward to the Punk DVD this year. He's been doing so well since the famous promo last year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wrestling wise, Punk's reign has been pretty damn good, but some of his feuds have been fairly dull. Ziggler feud didn't really have anything to it besides the Big Johnny stuff. Del Rio feud had... nothing going for it tbh lol. Jericho feud has had its ups and downs, but I've enjoyed it for the most part. Wish he'd done something with Henry on PPV rather than just TV. Henry needs to be in the title scene again, and I'd MUCH prefer him to be Sheamus' next opponent rather than Del Rio which appears to be where they are going next.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

The thing is the creative determine the booking, wrestlers can't really affect a storyline as they are told what to do. Prime example was Edge/Taker, went on for months, stale as fuck but their matches kept the feud going.

There is a lot of Punk hate right now but I reckon he's number 2 behind Cena right now. He can cut promos better than anyone else, let him loose and he will show anyone up. He even turned himself face and I reckon if creative did decide to turn him heel he'd probably get cheers. He deserves to keep the title till Summerslam at least, make the title credible right now and keep feuds fresh.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Have they released the matches on the falls count anywhere set yet?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm hoping the Punk/Bryan match means the Punk/Jericho feud is over. Because bar the Mania match and small parts of the Street Fight it was a dogshit feud. 'Best in the World' v 'Best in the World' somehow became "U IZ ON PATH TO ALCOHOLISM" "NO I DRINKZ NUTTIN I LIKE FISH N CHIPS." WWE booking has blown so any feuds up this year and it's only May. They have two great things to work with: 

1) Star power 
2) Ring Work

You'd think with everything going on they could write even a 'decent' story and produce really good feuds. I wonder how much creative control is given to wrestlers. IIRC the Jericho/Michaels stuff of 2008 was largely put together by Chris and Shawn themselves. Jericho's been.....REALLY disappointing since returning, but he and Punk could have probably put something together that's better than that alcohol bullshit.

Lesnar should have beat Cena. Cena should have been stretchered out with Lesnar licking Cena's blood off of his gloves. It was a great match and the crowd actually started backing Cena, but then out comes the 'Cena' stuff they don't like and he pulls a win out of nowhere. It wasn't done HORRIBLY and props to them for not making it stupid (Raw the next night is a *biiit* of a different story. A bit.), but God they could have had a great match with a great finish. If Cena's going to have a match with Ace then a good kick-start to it would have been 'Cena you lost to Rock, you lost to Tensai, you lost to Lesnar, you've clearly lost your touch: you're losing to BIG JOHNEH!!!!!!' I'd LOVE for him to lose that and only start winning again once he faces Rock a second time to redeem him Mania loss and get himself back on track.


Of course part of me is really pissed Mark Henry hasn't een used as much considering he's still fucking great, but Goddamn, these feuds should write themselves.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I have really enjoyed the Punk/Jericho matches but I agree the storyline has been boring at times. 

As for Punk's title reign I think it's been one of the better title reigns in years. I dont understand all the hate. Get use to it though because I dont think they are taking the belt off Punk for another 3-4 months and it wouldnt shock me if he again went into Mania next year as champ.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've liked his reign, but he feels so second-rate to the 'Big Stars'. When was the last time he main evented a PPV, or even an episode of Raw? It just makes the Title feel kind of unimportant.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> As for Punk's title reign I think it's been one of the better title reigns in years. I dont understand all the hate.


I think for some they feel he has not really had any captivating feuds or storylines yet. I personally enjoyed the Jericho feud for the most part. I got to see both of their matches live and both are great imo. Punk's had a strong run in the ring with the belt but overall I agree his angles haven't been that hot.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched Cena/Brock for the first time. Fucking awesome. I'd put HHH/Taker above it as far as MOTY goes, but damn it was awesome. Goes to show what a bit of blood can do for a match. Not that it wouldn't have been great without the blood but that was fucking sick. Lesnar looked like a complete badass/monster and Cena was fantastic as well. ****-****1/4 on first viewing. I'll probably do a little write up when I re-watch it, along with Sheamus/Bryan and Jericho/Punk.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've liked his reign, but he feels so second-rate to the 'Big Stars'. When was the last time he main evented a PPV, or even an episode of Raw? It just makes the Title feel kind of unimportant.


Really? I don't watch a whole lot of WWE TV but I've been getting a serious 'top guy' vibe from Punk in the last couple months. Disagree about the title feeling unimportant as well. His series with Henry sandwiched by the Jericho matches have done a world of good for the credibility of the championship to me. Feels like for the first time in a while we have a champion who consistently puts on great matches and I'm really not sure when or where this reign is ending.

Psyched for HHH/Brock btw.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Match quality has been pretty high in Punk's title reign.

Punk/Ziggler - x3 (3 real good ones)
Punk/Henry - x2
Punk/Jericho - x2
Punk/Del Rio - x1
Punk/Bryan - x2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ownage™ said:


> Really? I don't watch a whole lot of WWE TV but I've been getting a serious 'top guy' vibe from Punk in the last couple months. Disagree about the title feeling unimportant as well. His series with Henry sandwiched by the Jericho matches have done a world of good for the credibility of the championship to me. Feels like for the first time in a while we have a champion who consistently puts on great matches and I'm really not sure when or where this reign is ending.


He feels a lot more important than most people, but he's really on that "next tier" level to the Cenas and even the Rocks and Brocks (who seldom wrestle). The match quality is good-to-great, but it hasn't made the WWE Championship feel as important as Cena v Rock, Brock, shit, even Cena v Tensai main evented Raw over whatever Punk was doing that night (one of the Henry matches, was it?). I didn't watch Elimination Chamber, but if my sources are right, Cena v Kane main evented.......................just....what the fuck?

Johnny Ace was a "v Punk" thing for a while and then they dropped it and made it a "v Cena" thing instead. Right when Johnny became the 'Big' authority figure who rules over Raw and SmackDown, it became a Cena thing. I can't remember a Punk/Ace altercaton after Ace told Punk he'd lose the Title by DQ. That was Mania.

He feels like A Top Guy, but not The Top Guy. The promo he cut last June rambling about how "Cena isn't the best".......Punk has the Title now, but he still feels Second Banana. It's not that NOTHING has changed, but, really, he isn't The Guy and the WWE aren't trying to make him The Guy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

BTW, I did rewatch ER yesterday and my new ratings... well kinda new:

Extreme Rules 2012
Kane v Orton - ***3/4
Show v Cody - **1/2
Bryan v Sheamus - ****
Punk v Jericho - ****1/4
Cena v Lesnar - **** 

Well, didn't watch all the matches on the rewatch, just these (Show/Cody and Kane/Orton are first-time. Did love Kane/Orton). But the "Big 3" matches all remained the same ratings, and I enjoyed them all just as much as first watch, except Cena/Lesnar, which due to knowing the ending and still not being 100% happy with it, it kinda puts a damper on the match for me while watching. But it's nothing major and none of them really move anymore on my top 5 MOTY list. Punk/Jericho ER is still my MOTY with Bryan/Sheamus and then Lesnar/Cena following closely behind.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> He feels a lot more important than most people, but he's really on that "next tier" level to the Cenas and even the Rocks and Brocks (who seldom wrestle). The match quality is good-to-great, but it hasn't made the WWE Championship feel as important as Cena v Rock, Brock, shit, even Cena v Tensai main evented Raw over whatever Punk was doing that night (one of the Henry matches, was it?). I didn't watch Elimination Chamber, but if my sources are right, Cena v Kane main evented.......................just....what the fuck?
> 
> Johnny Ace was a "v Punk" thing for a while and then they dropped it and made it a "v Cena" thing instead. Right when Johnny became the 'Big' authority figure who rules over Raw and SmackDown, it became a Cena thing. I can't remember a Punk/Ace altercaton after Ace told Punk he'd lose the Title by DQ. That was Mania.
> 
> He feels like A Top Guy, but not The Top Guy. The promo he cut last June rambling about how "Cena isn't the best".......Punk has the Title now, but he still feels Second Banana. It's not that NOTHING has changed, but, really, he isn't The Guy and the WWE aren't trying to make him The Guy.


Well if by second rate to the big stars you mean not on the same level as guys like The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Triple H and Undertaker who don't wrestle full-time schedules but have cemented their positions by having hall of fame careers then yeah I guess Punk isn't a top guy. I don't expect him to be at that level though. He's the biggest star on the permanent roster bar Cena, definitely bigger (or at least hotter) than Orton right now. That's enough for me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It isn't really about CM Punk not being the top thing, it's about the WWE Championship not being the top thing. I said 'CM Punk' in other posts, but that's b/c he has the Title. The WWE Championship doesn't feel like "it" unless one of their "it" guys is holding or challenging for it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

WWF In your House: Unforgiven 1998

I think I found this DVD used at a GameStop like 5 years ago for like $5. I see now that the very same DVD is selling for $65 used on Amazon. At the very least I figured I should watch it before I consider selling it. I've seen the main events and everything but never the undercard. 


*The Nation of Domination (D-Lo Brown, Mark Henry, and The Rock) vs. Farooq, Ken Shamrock, and Steve Blackman *

At this point The Rock had just taken the role of leader of the Nation and Farooq obviously wasn't very happy about that. The crowd was eager to see Shamrock and Farooq beat the shit out of the Nation, specifically the Rock, so of course we saw the Nation have an extended control segment against Blackman. You could tell the place was ready to come unglued though as Farooq got in a awesome moment early on where he took out a belt and whipped D-Lo. Watching this I don't see how you couldn't know that the Rock was going to be something huge. The guy was getting the loudest pops of the match when he would tag into the ring, punch Farooq a few times, and tag out. I was actually surprised how much time was spent by the Nation controlling the match. There was enough stuff that went down during the control segment that kept things interesting. I found the early verison of the People's Elbow to be very amusing. This all built up the hot tag really well as there was a huge pop when Farooq got into the ring and got his hands on the Rock. 

While the build up was good I thought the finish was a little rushed. Everyone got involved after the tag and there was a huge a brawl that ended with Farooq and the Rock in the ring. There wasn't much to their time in the ring though. The Rock hit a quick DDT put Farooq got the crowd behind him and quickly hit a dominator for the win. Good build with a conclusion that was a let down. 
***1/2 *


_European Championship Match:_
*Triple H(c) vs. Owen Hart 
*
Do to her constant interference in previous matches Chyna was locked in a cage for the entire match. Owen starts things off quickly by attacking Triple H and kicking some serious ass at the start of the match. It didn't last for too long as Triple H was able to turn the tides and take control of the match. I have to say that Triple H's control segment was so well done. The moves he was hitting on Owen were executed perfect and Owen sold them all so well. The entire time the match was going on Chyna was trying to escape from the cage she was locked in and as soon as Owen was able to start his comeback Chyna managed to bend the bars and make it out of the cage. Only problem was that the cage was still really high up on the air and she was dangling above the floor for a long time. The cage eventually was lowered (Road Dogg was shown at the controls briefly) and once she was free the ref was distracted and it allowed X-Pac to interfere and hit Owen with a fire extinguisher. 

The match was pretty solid but I felt that Chyna was a little too distracting in the cage and really split the crowd's attention between the match and Chyna in the cage. Match was still pretty decent but I would have liked some back and forth action and we didn't get any of that. Same problem as the first match with a good build but lackluster conclusion. 
***3/4 *
_

NWA Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The New Midnight Express(c) w/Jim Cornette vs. The Rock and Roll Express*

Kind of amusing to see how fucking terrible Bart Gunn and Hardcore Holly worked as a team. They were arguing with each other constantly and it was rather amusing to see how poorly things went for them. Cornette challenging Tim White to a fight was pretty hilarious and probably my favorite part of the match. This was like a Southern style tag match with a lot less time and a crowd that wasn't particularly into the match despite this taking place in North Carolina. Pretty funny at times at least and I can't say it wasn't entertaining. 
****

_
Evening Gown Match:_
*Luna w/Goldust vs. Sable 
*
They ripped each other's clothes off. That's all there was too it. 
*No Rating *


_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*New Age Outlaws(c) vs. LOD 2000 w/Sunny
*
Started off kind of slowly but I got interested when LOD set up the Doomsday Device but Road Dogg shop blocked Animal and broke the move up. From there we saw a lot of leg work from the Outlaws as the isolated Animal. Animal sold the leg well while he was in the ring but once he made the hot tag his selling got significantly worse. The hot tag to Hawk got a nice pop but Hawk really lacked the explosiveness that you need for a hot tag to really be exciting. Just like the other matches on the card I also felt they rushed to the finish. Not to mention the ending was total BS. Hawk hits a German suplex on Road Dogg , whose shoulders were clearly down the entire time, but the ref counted to 3 and said Hawk's shoulders were on the mat and said the Outlaws won. One of Hawk's shoulders were clearly down but the other was clearly up making the call that the ref made look extremely stupid. Before that though the match was solid enough though. A good finish would have erased the sour taste this match leaves you with.
***1/2*


_Inferno Match:_
*Undertaker vs. Kane*

Quite the spectacal with all the flames and it's important to remember that this was the first Inferno match. I was surprised at how much time they spent fighting in the ring with the flames that were surrounding them. They put in a decent match in the ring as well. It's cool looking back and seeing what a total monster Kane was booked as when he first came on the scene. Watching Kane take a chokeslam and sit right back up was and seeing the Undertaker's face that just said, "You got to be kidding me" was a pretty cool moment. Match was very hard fought and they used the gimmick to the best of their ability.
**** *

_
WWF Championship Match:_
*Stone Cold Steve Austin(c) vs. Dude Love*

Mick Foley shows again why he's totally insane. The bumps that he took in this match were insane. He took a hip toss off a stage onto the concrete floor, a suplex onto the steps that were still set up in the corner (looks so much more brutal than I can describe), and a few other insane bumps that he took. The match was a really fun brawl and I enjoyed it more than the average Attitude Era brawl mostly because of Foley just taking some brutal bumps. 

I still didn't feel like this was anything too incredible though. Foley takes a great ass kicking and ends up getting some offense in when McMahon makes his presence known. They had an interesting thing going on where it looked like McMahon was going to have the time keeper screw over Austin but the timekeeper was afraid that Austin would kill him if he did it. Ending was also funny because Austin basically just beat the shit out of everyone, counted the 3 count himself, and left with the title. Austin was DQed but it really didn't matter as the fans got to see Austin beat the shit out of everyone. It was really fun and had some great spots with a solid story. I don't think it's a classic or anything but still a pretty great match and easily the best match of the night. 
****3/4 *​

This really wasn't that good of a show. The last match was pretty great but the rest of the card was really lacking.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've liked his reign, but he feels so second-rate to the 'Big Stars'. When was the last time he main evented a PPV, or even an episode of Raw? It just makes the Title feel kind of unimportant.


I see what you are saying and don't disagree. The champ should be headlining. One of the main things they should do is unify the titles. I mean have Bryan beat Sheamus on Smackdown next week and make Punk/Bryan a unification match. Now I know that wont happen and Sheamus will probably be champ for a few months at least but having two titles makes the belts feel unimportant as well. 

I hate when Cena is main eventing and he isnt in the title picture. Like at Elimination Chamber. WTF was that headlining for? It really made Punk and Bryan look like backpage news compared to Cena. It was ridiculous Savage/Flair didnt close WM8, as much as I didnt like them at the time it's stupid Nash/HBK didnt close WM11 and no offense to Rock and Cena I think Punk/Jericho should have close WM. I get why they didn't. Cena and Rock are more popular thn Punk. I wont disagree with that. Hogan was more popular thn Savage. I think they were just smoking pot in 1995 tbh. They are trying to appeal to the casual fans and kids. Do you see a lot of males 19-39 who like Cena and Sheamus? 

WWE has so much wrapped up in Cena. I really dont get why he is so popular. Im not a fan and never have been. Not a hater either. He has his good and bad qualities but I find him very boring. Same with Sheamus. I find Punk & Bryan very entertaining but I also found Hogan very boring and Savage entertaining. 

Oh well. :shrugs:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think Mania's main event was OK. I would have liked the Title match to ME but the Rock's first (singles) match in X years is big whether I cared about it or not. But yeah, E.Chamber, multiple Raws....ugh.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Any TNA fans?

I dont really follow it but I picked up the Kurt Angle Champion 2 DVD set today. It was only $4 used so that was too good of a deal to pass up. I know Foley and Sting have DVD sets from TNA as well. 

Anybody have these and if so thoughts?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah.....So I'm sorry I didn't give the Hardy-Edge steel cage match any love, although I despise both Hardys and everything that they do, I had to give the match ***** 1/4* even though it isn't even the best cage match of 2005 IMO.

The Great American Bash 2005 is truly an underrated event. It gets SHIT on by everyone, but when I look at the card I never saw one match that is truly horrendous, and a whole host of ***-*** 3/4 matches. Benoit actually dragged a good match out of Orlando Jordan, Eddie and Rey were Eddie and Rey, while I'm a huge fan of the Booker T-Christian encounter. Maybe it's just overshadowed by the great PPV year we had in 2005.

Just gotta finish Unforgiven and watch Armaggeddon to finish off the year. Then I'll start throwing on some reviews as well as my picks for MOTY, Underrated MOTY, Overrated MOTY, WOTY, and all that great stuff, as I've seen most of the TV matches from that time period as well.

Speaking of Summerslam, outside of the 2002 edition, I believe that Summerslam 2011 is the greatest Summerslam of all time. Hot opener, great big man's match, great Barrett-Bryan match, FANTASTIC double main event (Cena-Punk might go down as the most under-recognized match of all time), and I'll go out on a limb and say that it's better than MITB 2011. Or, atleast I enjoy it more.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

^ Agreed on that Summerslam part. I too found Punk-Cena summerslam match to be better than MITB match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus v Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules
-- Fantastic match. The first two falls were absolutely superb. I'm not gonna say Sheamus got carried because his offense was on point, he pulled some cool stuff out of the bag (particularly that Texas Cloverleaf which looked great), and in general had excellent chemistry with Bryan, but let's be honest, this was the Daniel Bryan show. He bumped hard, his control segments were perfect, loved the psychology of sacrificing the first fall in order to fuck Sheamus' arm up, and he worked the crowd like a fucking boss during the downtime prior to the third fall. Everything was brilliant up until the final fall which to me was a bit of a let down. Finishing stretch felt rushed after they had put everything else together so well. Had some issues with Sheamus' selling too. It wasn't unforgivably bad but considering he just passed out due to the pain he was in to lose the second fall he shouldn't have been nailing axehandles and backbreakers. Overall though, still a top notch wrestling match. Definitely the best of both men's WWE careers. With a better third fall I might be calling it MOTY.

****

Brock Lesnar v John Cena - Extreme Rules
-- Unreal. Just unreal. There's never been a match in company history quite like this and I'll venture to say there never will be. Brock was a fucking monster and Cena was fantastic as well. The opening exchange literally couldn't have been any better. This just wouldn't have been the same (it wouldn't have been anywhere near as awesome tbh) without blood and oh man Lesnar busting Cena open with those elbows was ridiculously sick. Loved the style they worked. Loved the realness. Loved the BLOOD. Heard people bitching about the finish. I liked it. I can understand why people might say Cena shouldn't have won in terms of the overall booking direction of the characters involved but as the finish to a badass wrestling match it was fine. The one thing I didn't like was the second ref bump because Brock was clearly looking at the referee when he did it but that's a minor detail. Awesome.

****1/4

That leaves me with:

1. The Undertaker v Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****1/4)
2. Brock Lesnar v John Cena - Extreme Rules (****1/4)
3. Sheamus v Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules (****)
4. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****)

I want to watch Punk/Jericho from ER again before I slap a rating on it but initially didn't think it was on the level of those four matches. It was good, parts of it were great, but overall it struck as me being a really good match rather than an excellent match like the four I just listed. The Rumble and Chamber PPVs were disappointing but Mania and Extreme Rules delivered in a big way with their top matches.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I've decided I am going to write reviews on every Shawn Michaels/Undertaker match starting from their first match at Ground Zero all the way to the Streak vs. Career match at Wrestlemania. It is one of, if not my favourite rivalry of all time and every match both men have brung it. 

I will write up my first review for Ground Zero soon...


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

So, who else thinks Undertaker V Triple HIAC is Triple H's best match ever?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH's best match? Hmmm... I do love that Cactus street fight in 2000... but it might very well be a little better. Probs is HHH's best match for me. Can't think of many off the top of my head that really compete with it. WMXX triple threat, Cactus street fight... and uhhh... yeah.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> So, who else thinks Undertaker V Triple HIAC is Triple H's best match ever?


As much as I enjoyed it, personally I thought his matches with The Rock at Judgement Day 2000 in that epic Iron Man match and his street fight with Cactus Jack at Royal Rumble 2000 were better.

In terms of overall enjoyment, he's been involved in a lot of memorable matches like The Rock at Backlash 2000 and that Unsanctioned match with Shawn Michaels at Summerslam 2002.

But in all honesty, for me his best match was with Stone Cold Steve Austin at No Way Out 2001. Just brilliant from start to finish, a classic.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

vs. Austin at No Way Out
vs. Jericho at Fully Loaded
vs. Foley at Royal Rumble
vs. Benoit vs. Michaels at Mania XX
vs. Michaels at Summerslam
vs. Rock at Judgement Day

Were all better, for me anyway.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> The Great American Bash 2005 is truly an underrated event. It gets SHIT on by everyone, but when I look at the card I never saw one match that is truly horrendous, and a whole host of ***-*** 3/4 matches. Benoit actually dragged a good match out of Orlando Jordan, Eddie and Rey were Eddie and Rey, while I'm a huge fan of the Booker T-Christian encounter. Maybe it's just overshadowed by the great PPV year we had in 2005.


 I think that's one of three reasons. For one, from WrestleMania 21 to here, WWE had an unprecedented streak of good-great PPVs. WM 21 had Mysterio/Guerrero, MITB, UT/Orton, HBK/Angle and (depending on who you ask) HHH/Batista. 

Backlash had Benjamin/Jericho (great opener), Edge/Benoit LMS, Hogan & HBK/Hassan & Daivari, and Batista/HHH II.

Judgment Day, despite being a SD-only PPV, had London/Chavo, Booker/Angle, Mysterio/Guerrero, and a classic main event in Cena/JBL.

One Night Stand...nuff said.

Vengeance...possibly the best brand exclusive PPV ever.


And then you get this: The Legion of Doom being reformed to plug the new DVD, only now Hawk is replaced with Heidenreich (!), they use cheap heat by ragging on Hawk's death, IMO Benoit has one of the worst matches of his career against OJ (I truly believe the 25-second match a month later was an apology for trying to make us think OJ was at Benoit's level, let alone could pin him), UT/Hassan turned into a disaster, and after Batista defeated Triple H THREE times in a row cleanly, we were meant to believe that he would have trouble against JBL.

Worse, the match was about twice as long as it should have been, and last I remember, was spectacularly boring AND ended in a DQ. 

So after FIVE good-great PPVs in a row, we get all this crap, capped off by a poor main event. But that's just my opinion.

I agree that Booker/Christian and Guerrero/Mysterio were great, but GAB was just a consistently messy PPV.

Everything went back on track a month later with an amazing SummerSlam, and Batista/JBL had an infinitely better match (which was half the running time, too).


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*In Your House: Ground Zero*
Louisville Gardens, Louisville, Kentucky; September 7, 1997
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker​
My first of five reviews on the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud and matches they brought. This was the first time the two men squared off. It all started thanks to Shawn Michaels letting his disdain for Bret Hart get the better of him and cost the Undertaker the WWF title at Summerslam ’97. Shawn was riding the babyface/heel fence at the time of the match, and this is the match that put him over the top as a heel. D-Generation X would soon follow. The pyro guys screw up Shawn’s big entrance. Undertaker, who was destroyed by the thrown-together team of Shawn & HHH on a previous RAW, is so pissed that he flattens the referee before we even start.

Shawn Michaels tries running Sgt. Slobber tries to stop him, and that allows Undertaker to toss our poor ref Jack Doan I believe? over the top and onto both of them. He chases Michaels up the ramp and gives him an absolute ass-kicking, a proper start to this main event. We go back to ringside, The Undertaker chokes him with some cable, a right hook sends Shawn sprawling onto the Spanish table, oh how you got to love the Spanish announce table, The deadman gives him another and then sends him flying onto the railing. 

Eventually, they get into the ring, where the Undertaker flattens him with a clothesline and drops two elbows on him. Is Shawn Michael actually going to get any offence in here? Shawn takes a nasty bump to the floor as ref number two then joins us. Shawn Michaels at this point is literally begging for a disqualification, but the match hasn’t actually started yet amazingly. Shawn sneaks in and gets a cheap shot on Undertaker and the match then finally gets under way. Michaels gets some offence in eventually and starts hitting him in the corner, all it does is anger The Undertaker even more. He goes up and gets caught coming down, and sent over the top. 

Back in the ring, The Undertaker works on the arm for a bit, but gets dropped on the top rope during his traditional ropewalk or "old-school" as they decided to call it. Shawn goes for a steel-chair but 'Taker boots it out of his hands. Taker ascertains the chair and tries to use it but Hebner stops him. Taker and Hebner have a tug-of-war with the chair so Shawn dropkicks the Undertaker sending him into Hebner, wiping him out. This is a full on brawl. Shawn hammers the Undertaker and hits a flying elbowdrop, but there’s no ref of course. Rick Rude comes and gives Shawn a pair of brass knuckles, gotta love these, these are the PROPER real old-school brass knuckles, not those taped-up poor looking ones you see nowadays! Michaels starts smashing the Undertakers brains in with them for a few minutes. Triple H and Chyna then bring us yet another ref, and surprise surprise Shawn Michaels then beats HIM up too. What would be known as DX in the coming weeks, Triple H and Chyna work on The Undertaker. It’s an absolute slugfest and I am enjoying every second of this match, more than I thought I would from what I actually remember from the PPV itself. 

The Undertaker blocks a sweet chin music and pulls the brass knuckles out of Shawn’s tights, famous snap of Undertaker looking down Shawn Michaels tights right here. A good shot with the brass knucks gets a two count. Undertaker chokeslams the ref, you really have to feel for some of the referees at this point. Finally another ref comes in and calls the whole thing a no-contest after about 22 minutes of an utter brawl. DX then try on a heel beatdown but The Undertaker is having absolutely none of that! Tombstone for Triple H. A bunch of officials run in, Michaels nails Pat Patterson, oh I bet Patterson loved every second of that nailing, and Jerry Brisco but the Undertaker manages a Tombstone to Triple H. Shawn attacks him from behind. The locker room empties to try to break it up and Billy Gunn dressed as some sort of western Elvis takes a chokeslam. The Legion of Doom, Disciples of Apocalypse and a whole hoard of wrestlers come out to hold the Undertaker back. Taker breaks free and topés out onto Shawn, taking out the Godwinns, The Rock and the Sultan who was just Rikishi behind a mask and Los Boricuas in the process. A huge melee erupts on the floor and Michaels, Triple H and Chyna finally escape! And THAT is the end of show. Pretty much the damnedest brawl you’ll ever see, and a match so intense that there was only one way to settle this feud and that is where my next review will come from... HELL IN A CELL...

--

I give this match THREE STARS *** , not because it was bad but because through out all the matches these two had this is the weakest out of the lot. Wasn’t much of a match as it was a wild brawl, The Undertaker came to extract his pound of flesh and got a lot more than he bargained for. Shawn used his backup to the best of its ability but they all could not stop the Undertaker. This made the crowd rampant for the rematch blow-off and boy they got it at the next pay-per-view..


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Speaking of Triple H matches, I love Trips/Hardy from NM '08.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

My top 5 HHH matches are :

1) vs. Batista - HIAC
2) vs. Benoit vs. Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
3) vs. Foley - Royal Rumble
4) vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania 28
5) vs. Jericho - Fully Loaded 2000


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 HHH matches:

1. Vs Undertaker - WM 28
2. Vs Cactus - RR 2000
3. Vs Undertaker - WM 27
4. Vs Benoit Vs HBK - WM XX
5. Vs Jericho - FL 2000


----------



## VegaQB (Oct 31, 2010)

Best HHH match for me is Three stages of hell against Stone Cold.


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

My top 5 HHH matches are :
1. vs Undertaker- WM 28
2. vs Cactus- NWO 2000
3. vs HBK- SS 2002
4. vs Austin- NWO 2001
5. vs Undertaker - WM 17


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud :*

In Your House: Ground Zero - ****
Bad Blood: Hell in a Cell - *****
Royal Rumble 1998 - ***3/4
Wrestlemania 25 - *****
Wrestlemania 26 - ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud :

In Your House: Ground Zero - ****
Bad Blood: Hell in a Cell - *****
Royal Rumble 1998 - ****1/4
WrestleMania 25 - *****
WrestleMania 26 - *****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gonna do a top 50 someday, but for now here's my top 15 favorite HHH PPV matches(Not counting Elimination Chambers):

15. vs Batista Backlash 05
14. vs Shawn Michaels Summerslam 02
13. vs CM Punk Night Of Champions 11
12. vs John Cena Wrestlemania 22
11. vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels Backlash 04
10. vs Stone Cold Steve Austin 3SOH No Way Out 01
9. vs Randy Orton LMS No Mercy 07
8. vs Ric Flair Cage Taboo Tuesday 05
7. Degeneration X vs Rated RKO New Year's Revolution 07
6. vs Ric Flair LMS Survivor Series 05
5. vs Undertaker HIAC Wrestlemania 28
4. vs Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 00
3. vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 20
2. vs Batista Vengeance 05
1. vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 27


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*In Your House: Badd Blood*
Kiel Centre, St. Louis, Missouri; October 5, 1997
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker​
My second of five reviews on the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud and matches they brought. This was my favourite match of all five they had. Not only that but it was the first ever Hell in a Cell match up and it is still to this day the best one of all time in my opinion. Two PPV's in a row where the WWE Champion didn't main event, in fact it wasn't even contested at this PPV, funny actually that it was the European Champion main eventing Badd Blood. 

This was the final result of Summerslam 1997, where Shawn Michaels reffed the title match between The Undertaker vs. Bret Hard, ended up hitting Undertaker with a chair, yada yada yada, you know how it went. They had a pretty wild match at Ground Zero as I've already reviewed. After another couple of weeks of incredibly obnoxious antics on Shawn’s part, this match was signed, a match to end all feuds, a never-seen before match up where there will be nothing but Hell in a Cell. The general concensus was that Shawn Michaels was dead meat basically. D-Generation-X tried to accompany The Heartbreak Kid, but get sent back, this couldn't get any worse for Shawn could it? Wrong. Michaels tries to avoid The Undertaker early on who ends up slowly stalking him around ringside. He runs into the ring and right into a big boot. The Undertaker rams him to the turnbuckle, and again, which Shawn sells big time, only like Shawn Michaels does! He goes for the chokeslam but Shawn kicks him in the shin and hammers away at Taker. The Undertaker gets Michaels in a wrist lock, and he slams into Michaels' shoulder a few times, then does the ropewalk, sorry "old-school". Shawn oversells again in that wonderful way he does. Shawn gets up so Taker knocks him on ass several times, and then tosses him over the top rope in a wicked bump for Michaels. He chokes Shawn against the cage, prompting Shawn to try to climb out of the cage, there is no way out up there HBK! The Undertaker pulls him down to the floor, another wicked bump, by now you're wondering where can he possibly go from here, but the best is yet to come. The front row starts yelling “Make him bleed” and this is fucking PG!! Just demonstrates though how hated Shawn Michaels was at this point, man I miss heel Michaels, anyway enough rambling. The Undertaker whips him into the cage, and then tears his head off with a hellacious clothesline coming back. Again. Great bumping by Shawn. The announcers are totally selling the idea of The Undertaker taking his time and destroying Shawn bit by bit, JR at his best basically. The Undertaker just continues to hammer away on Shawn, and rams him back first into the ring post, then to the cage, then to the ring post, to the cage again. The crowd at this point are eating this up, an absolute shit kicking of the highest order. Shawn tries to push The Undertaker into the cage, but The Undertaker simply clotheslines him on the way back. He smashes Shawn into the stairs. The tide starts to turn now though, The Undertaker whipped Shawn into the cage, but Shawn used the momentum to nail Taker on the way back, giving him the advantage.

He wisely rolls back into the ring to escape the Undertaker. He nails him a few times on the way back in, but The Undertaker pulls Shawn’s neck on the top rope on the way down. Michaels comes back and knocks The Undertaker off the apron into the cage. Shawn tries a top suicide, sending Taker crashing into the cage, then he climbs halfway up the cage and drops an elbow to The Undertaker on the floor but Taker isn't staying down, he gets straight back up again, so Shawn clotheslines him off the apron. Shawn, quite clearly getting desperate, grabs the stairs and rams them into Takers back a few times. He piledrives Taker on the remains of the stairs and rolls back into the ring to escape again, sounded painful to be honest! He comes off the top rope with a double-axehandle to The Undertaker on the floor. Back in the ring, and Shawn finds a chair under the ring before returning, one of those nice blue chairs you used to get, the proper steel ones, not the ones with the padding on it like nowadays, anyway a shot to the back puts The Undertaker down again. Once again, Taker gets up, so Michaels knocks him down again. Notice the story here guys? The Undertaker controlled for the first portion, while Shawn Michaels had to use his brain and every advantage possible to come back, classic! The Undertaker tries to come back, but gets caught in the ropes and pummelled by Michaels. Shawn charges and eats a boot to the mouth, and charges again and gets backdropped over the top, onto a cameraman, didn't look too good. He nails the cameraman and injures him, what is it with officials getting hurt during these two's matches!? The medical crew opens the cage to give the guy assistance as Shawn hits Taker with the flying forearm back in the ring. Shawn with his beautifully executed elbow before he starts up the band. Sweet Chin Music, but The Undertaker sits up. So typical Shawn runs out of the cage with the door open.

The Undertaker follows and they fight in the aisle. Shawn dropkicks Undertaker, but on a second attempt gets caught and catapulted into the cage. If you actually watch this bit in slow motion, you can see Michaels quite clearly rip the blade across his forehead in mid-air. It’s not noticeable, though, otherwise, the blading of an experienced blader, hats off to you Mr. Michaels. The Undertaker rams Shawn into the cage a few times like a battering ram. Shawn kicks him in the midsection though to get some breathing space. The bit we were all waiting for when they got outside, The Heartbreak Kid then began to climb the outside of the cage to escape the increasingly crazed Undertaker, was he going to follow? Of course he was going to follow! They fight on the roof, and Shawn attempts a piledriver, reversed by The Undertaker for a huge pop from the crowd. Taker grates Shawn’s face into the mesh as a great camera angle from below lets us see it, props to the camera man, even the one that got fucked up. Taker military presses Shawn onto the cage, then nails him, sending Shawn scurrying to the edge to run away. He starts to climb down the cage, so Taker does the logical thing and stomps on Shawn’s hands until he crashes to the table below, this spot doesn't get enough credit, it's like Foley's but just a few inches lower, considering Michaels isn't the "hardcore legend" Foley is, it's a pretty awesome bump. The Undertaker climbs down the cage then press slams Michaels on the remains of the Spanish table. Shawn is just bleeding all over the place here, it's crazy, his whole face is literally red. The Undertaker then literally kicks Shawn’s ass around the cage, and tosses him back into the ring. After clotheslining him, he puts Michaels on the top rope and chokeslams him off. Taker then finds his own beautiful looking blue chair and smashes it into Shawn’s face, one of the most vicious looking unprotected head shots you'll see, then cuts his throat with his hand in the typical Undertaker way before the lights go out, what the FUCK is going on?..

The now-familiar music and red lights start, and Kane makes his first appearance. "THATS GOTTA BE KANE, THATS GOTTA BE KANE!", Vince McMahon at his usual worst, classic!! The menacing figure rips the door off the hinges, does the pyro thing, and tombstones Undertaker awkwardly after moving around the ring wondering where the hell to tombstone him, then leaves whilst Bearer pours gasoline over the hapless referee. Shaw Michaels somehow pulls his blood-soaked carcass off the mat, rolls over with his last ounce of strength, and covers for the pin. Triple H and Chyna run down to the ring and drag him out of the ring before the Undertaker can wake up and finish killing Shawn basically. But my god, I am out of breathe, what an absolute classic of a match!!

--

I give this match FIVE STARS ***** , Why am I giving this match five stars? Simple, it's perfect. The storyline and psychology was just there. You could literally FEEL how close Michaels was to pissing his pants in fear every time The Undertaker no-sold one of his best shots and kept coming back for more like a crazed psycho. The psychology of the match itself was solid. Shawn's signature moves, the elbow, the Sweet Chin Music are all just shrugged off by the Undertaker, forcing Shawn to resort to weapons and timely running away, to the point where Shawn has to invent new ways of running away. Taking out a cameraman was a brilliant idea in order to escape, for instance. Shawn's dive off the side of the cage was awesome, there was no waiting around after that though like another certain Hell in a Cell match, Michaels just took more punishment. Plus the interference was very well utilized, I saw it as a way to establish that the ONLY way Michaels could beat The Undertaker was to have his demonic half-brother do his own finisher to him, it made Undertaker look strong and Michaels ended up becoming the number one contender for the WWE title, just a brilliant match, Highly recommended. 

Up next, Royal Rumble 1998, the Casket match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero* - _WWE Great American Bash 06/27/2004_

I like the opening sequence a lot, with Rey busting out la magistral (love that name) early on and getting a near-fall pretty quickly. Chavo's ultra-low sunset flip is cool too, that may be the lowest one I've seen. Being really blown away by that move reminded me of the first time I saw one of Eddy Guerrero's low dropkicks. I can't imagine how hard that is to execute. It looks effortless by Chavito, though. 

The match starts out as a battle of wills, and that theme continues through the match. At first, each is fighting over control of his opponent's arm. There's a really great face/heel dynamic going on, with Chavo doing a better job of keeping the audience involved than I've ever seen from him. The coolness of it all is that every time they end up working any type of sequence, it always ends right back where it started, with Rey in control of Chavo's arm. 

Nice transitional spot with Rey going up top and injuring his knee, giving Chavo a chance to do some terrific leg work. The rule of threes is in effect here, as Chavo keeps placing Rey's leg on the ropes so he can drop his weight on it, and the third time he tries it, Rey uses his good leg to kick Chavo out of the ring. Rey is like the best one-legged wrestler ever in this match, taking awesome bumps off of Chavo's kicks. He even sells the leg *while* running the ropes. 

The attention to detail shown there is very cool. Whether it was intended or not, Chavo doing the Brock Lock on Rey mid-ring is some great continuity, going back to him losing out big in his world title match against Brock Lesnar in San Diego. This time, Rey gets out of it, and I love the next spot too, with Chavo executing a vertical suplex into a tree of woe position. That's an inventive spot, one I had never seen. Chavo misses a blind charge soon enough though and reinjures his bicep. Michael Cole smartly points out that there are two stories in play here, Chavo's injured bicep and Rey's injured knee. Both sell consistently without dragging down the pace at all. 

Chavo executes a Gory special, which gets a really good near-fall and plays into the finish nicely, as he would try it again and Rey would ultimately counter again. I also love Chavo countering the West Coast Pop into a single leg crab, which is sold and worked tenaciously. The only drawback to it is that Rey heroically reaches the ropes. 

Nice finishing reversal, as Rey counters Chavo's second attempt at the Gory Special in what is really a revenge spot, as he retains the cruiserweight title. This might be Chavo's best match ever. Stellar performances here from both men who have great chemistry together.



*Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio* (WWE Championship #1 Contender's Tournament Quarter-Final) - _WWE Smackdown 02/10/2005_

Mysterio without a doubt is one of Angle’s best opponents ever. I like in their matches together how Angle makes time to establish their different roles. In the opening segment, Angle made sure that people were aware that he was the superior mat based wrester and that he was the heel. Angle dominated the beginning for a bit, which led to him gloating, and it ultimately led to his brief downfall. 

Angle attempted a sunset flip, but Mysterio punished him for even thinking that he could hang with Mysterio in a highflying game by countering it and giving Angle a dropkick to the face. Subtle things like a heel gloating for a couple of seconds leading into a transition to shift the momentum back to the babyface make matches so much more interesting. Rey also wasn’t afraid to show his reluctance to wrestle with Angle as he threw a few strikes here and there and tried to take the contest to favor his highflying expertise.

Angle’s control segment was better than his average one because Mysterio can feed him with counters that not every wrestler can. His focus was working on the body of Mysterio and it worked well because he didn’t just use the conventional moves he usually does. A great piece of offence which Angle used in this match that is usually out of his repertoire would be the knees to the back of Mysterio whilst on the mat. Mysterio made the best out of the spot by covering up, which I thought was a more realistic approach of selling it.

Mysterio led the way in an exciting last stretch providing numerous false finishes after his patent springboard aerial assaults off the ropes. Mysterio's selling was on point throughout the match as he took his time in between moves to sell the work on his body from Angle earlier in the contest up to the finish. I love the pace they set and how they can quickly transition and work their counters so smoothly to build to the next big move. You can't go wrong with these two in the ring.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Meltzer give the Cena/Lesnar match ****½ 

Probably of been 5 if Lesnar had won.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^What are his other ratings for the show?

Can't come up with an accurate HHH top 5. There's a lot of stuff I'd have to re-watch. Say what you want about the guy but he's had more classics (or borderline classics) than most guys from his generation.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Santino Marella Vs The Miz *

Orton Vs Kane ***

Brodus Clay Vs Dolph Ziggler *

Cody Rhodes Vs Big Show *

Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan **** 

Ryback Vs Aaron Relic & Jay Hatton *

CM. Punk Vs Chris Jericho ***½ 

Layla Vs Nikki Bella DUD

John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar ****½


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Orton/Kane only 1/2* worse off than Jericho/Punk? Hmmm.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I generally agree with that. I'd go higher on Rhodes/Show, thought that was fun for the time it got with Cody rag dolling for Show and then the unique finish (the look on Show's face was hilarious). Thought Cena/Lesnar was fucking awesome and the MOTN ahead of Sheamus/Bryan. Didn't think a whole lot of Punk/Jericho on first viewing. It was good/very good but not a MOTYC.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Yeah, 4 stars for Sheamus/Bryan is about right, I've seen ****3/4 thrown around here somewhere. I just wish they would take away the shit (ziggler/fat guy) (golberg/jobbers) and stretch out a few of the matches by a few minutes. A show like Survivor Series 2002, just pure quality from top to bottom, no filler nonsense.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Meh, the three big matches all got around 20 minutes. I was fine with that. 

I don't know if it was because I was tired but I struggled to get into Punk/Jericho at times. Nothing they did was bad but I wasn't hooked like I was with Sheamus/Bryan and Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*Royal Rumble*
San Jose Arena, San Jose, California; January 18, 1998
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker​
This is my third review on the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud and matches they brought. I'd say out of the five matches they had this is the fourth best, once again not because it's a bad match but because of the high calibre matches the two brought out of each other. The video package before the show focuses on the history between the two and the recent "bond" between Kane and Undertaker, although it couldn't of been just me who didn't buy into the so-called bond between the two.

The Heartbreak Kid started the match on the upper foot jabbing away in the corner at The Dead Man to start and taunts but The Undertaker no sells and goes for a right. Michaels dodges and goes back to the jabs but no dice. Few back and fourths between the two before Michaels makes a break for it and runs towards Taker, The Undertaker backdrops him over the top rope and on the way down Michaels' back lands on the edge of the casket and that's the spot that gave Michaels his career ending back injury, looking at it KNOWING its the bump that ended his career for four years you can't help but wince really! 

The Undertaker follows to the floor and throws Michaels around like a lawn dart. He tosses him into the ring post and then press slams him onto the floor. He gives Michaels the big boot into the casket but he quickly exits. Back in the ring Shawn Michaels floats over and tries a roll up but runs straight into a right hand. Taker whiffs on an elbow drop and Michaels is noticeably favoring the back already. The Undertaker starts hitting with some shoulder surges and then he hits "Old School" off the top of the ropes. 

Michaels is sent across to the corner and does his version of the Flair bump over the turnbuckle. The Undertaker tries to grab him but Michaels stunguns him. Michaels goes up top but jumps into a power slam. Shawn Michaels is the rolled into the casket but Taker is unable to close the lid. Michaels sorta botches the chalk spot into Taker's eyes but onward and upward, we all make mistakes I'm sure we can all let Shawn Michaels off with that one. Undertaker still sells partial blindness. Michaels goes back to the jabs. Actually on the replay, it looks like he got him the first time but in all honesty the chalk just didn't provide the necessary visual. 

The Undertaker goes for the choke slam and I guess he's done selling the eye. Michaels says fuck that shit and gauges the eye and hits a moonsault off the top rope, proper Shawn Michaels style. Michaels hits a clothesline but The Undertaker pulls him to the floor anyway and goes on the offence. HBK reverses and sends Taker into the stairs and he does the Foley knee first bump, man that looked painful. Michaels rams them into Taker's lower back a few times. Michaels piledrives him on the stairs and that look nasty and the crowd gasps, in fact I gasped, I thought the one at Badd Blood looked bad, jesus christ. For good measure, Triple H pounds Taker with a crutch and chokes him. Shawn Michaels hits him with a chair. Back in, Michaels hits a back elbow. He rolls The Undertaker into the casket but he fights back with uppercuts. 

The Undertaker headbutts Triple H! Michaels comes back with a swinging neck breaker. Michaels goes for the sleeper and Taker drops to his knees. With the crowd fully on his back, The Undertaker fight back. He counters into a back suplex. Shawn Michaels hits the flying burrito and kips up. He hits that awesome elbow drop of his deep in the heart of The Undertaker and then begins to tune the band for the Sweet Chin Music and hits Taker square in the chin with it. He rolls Taker into the casket and gloats with the crotch chop so Taker grabs him with the testicular claw and escapes, god that must of hurt, or felt good, depending on who you are I suppose. Michaels begs off but The Undertaker hits some rights and a back body drop. Another chop and whip and Flair-esque upside bump. 

The Undertaker then hits a big boot but whiffs on a flying zombie hip check or some shit and lands in the casket. Shawn Michaels hits a splash from the top all the way down to the casket and Earl just fucking shuts the lid and stands there like an idiot, I mean really!? He lies to another ref and says the fall knocked it down when we all clearly saw him shut it, anyway. Michaels tries to escape but Taker pulls him back in. Both escape and back in the ring, The Undertaker hits a choke slam. The Undertaker hits a badass spike Tombstone off the apron into the casket, awesome awesome awesome in every sense of the word but The New Age Outlaws and Los Boricuas hit the ring as well as others. 

The lights go out and the crowd go fucking crazy, the organs play, Kane's bad ass old theme plays and business is about to pick up. Triple H slides out of the way and Kane clears the ring, choke slam after choke slam on superstars attacking his brother. Kane hits his signature taunt and then turns on The Undertaker, now in all honesty, even though I knew they weren't "bonding" like the storyline would have us suggest, I didn't think he'd attack Taker, I thought he'd clean house and walk off to continue the storyline a bit anyway.. Kane then choke slams The Undertaker into the casket, fuck knows where Shawn Michaels is whilst all this is going on and closes the lid, the referee rings for the bell and Shawn Michaels retains his title where he'll go on to meet Stone Cold Steve Austin at Wrestlemania.

Post-match Kane and Paul Bearer lock the casket and wheel it to the top of the ramp. Kane takes an ax to the casket and then pours gasoline all over the casket before setting it on fire and doing his brother taunt that him and Taker used to do back in the day, "Moments later" the road agents put out the fire and open up the casket but The Undertaker of course is nowhere to be seen. He gives some voiceover narration about getting revenge on Kane and we're outta time on what I thought was a pretty good match up considering.

--

I give this match THREE AND A HALF STARS ***1/2 , This is probably the best casket match ever and thoroughly entertaining as to be expected when both men are involved. Literally the exact same booking as the casket match four years earlier at the Royal Rumble 1994 between The Undertaker and Yokozuna but with better execution. I liked the original beginning, that was effective with lots of reversals without the usual wristlock, hammerlock, side headlock, criss cross, etc. Also, the heavily booked ending seemed to fit this better than the also awesome Ground Zero match, add to that it's memorable ending. The match scores points due to the chemistry between the two, its pacing and the performance of Shawn Michaels.

Up next, We go 11 years into the future for the next encounter between the two men. Wrestlemania 25.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Have you seen Undertaker Vs Bob & Randy Orton? As much as I love the Undertaker/HBK casket match, the Orton one is probably THE casket match. And both have the "set Undertaker on fire in the casket" ends!


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I don't think I have seen it. I imagine that was during the time where I wasn't watching as much as it certainly doesn't ring a bell. If you reckon it's the best casket match I think I might have to give it watch!


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Have you seen Undertaker Vs Bob & Randy Orton? As much as I love the Undertaker/HBK casket match, the Orton one is probably THE casket match. And both have the "set Undertaker on fire in the casket" ends!


Yes it is a pretty good match it has everything you'd want in a match...even includes Orton getting hit in the groin you couldnt ask for more.:lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, nothing like seeing Orton getting his nuts attacked...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> *In Your House: Badd Blood*
> Kiel Centre, St. Louis, Missouri; October 5, 1997
> Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker​
> My second of five reviews on the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud and matches they brought. This was my favourite match of all five they had. Not only that but it was the first ever Hell in a Cell match up and it is still to this day the best one of all time in my opinion. Two PPV's in a row where the WWE Champion didn't main event, in fact it wasn't even contested at this PPV, funny actually that it was the European Champion main eventing Badd Blood.
> ...


Great write up mate, im just watching this match after buying the Hell In A Cell Collection DVD, totally forgot this was when Kane entered the fray...

One of the best matches FULL STOP IMO (Y)


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Great write up mate, im just watching this match after buying the Hell In A Cell Collection DVD, totally forgot this was when Kane entered the fray...
> 
> One of the best matches FULL STOP IMO (Y)


Thanks mate. Enjoy the match. Does the Hell in a Cell DVD have all of the Hell in a Cell matches up to just before Triple H/Undertaker from Wrestlemania? Must be some awesome matches on there. Michaels/Taker, Foley/Taker, Foley/HHH, Taker/Lesnar etc.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HIAC DVD features everything minus Taker/Bossman (thank God) up to Taker/Batista.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Cookie Monster said:


> Thanks mate. Enjoy the match. Does the Hell in a Cell DVD have all of the Hell in a Cell matches up to just before Triple H/Undertaker from Wrestlemania? Must be some awesome matches on there. Michaels/Taker, Foley/Taker, Foley/HHH, Taker/Lesnar etc.


It ends with Batista/Undertaker from Survivor Series 2007 since it came out in mid 2008. I did add on to the set if it came out today:


1.	Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker – Badd Blood – 10/5/1997
2.	Kane & Mankind vs Stone Cold Steve Austin & Undertaker – Raw 06/15/1998
3.	Mankind vs Undertaker – King of the Ring – 06/25/1998
4.	Kane vs Mankind – Raw – 08/24/1998
5.	WWE Championship – Triple H (c) vs Cactus Jack – No Way Out – 02/27/2000
6.	WWE Championship – Kurt Angle (c) vs Undertaker vs The Rock vs Rikishi vs Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Triple H – Armageddon – 12/20/2000
7.	Chris Jericho vs Triple H – Judgment Day – 05/19/2002
8.	WWE Championship – Brock Lesnar (c) vs Undertaker – No Mercy 10/20/2002
9.	World Heavyweight Championship – Triple H (c) vs Kevin Nash - Badd Blood – 06/15/2003
10.	Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels – Badd Blood – 06/13/2004
11.	World Heavyweight Championship – Batista (c) vs Triple H – Vengeance – 06/26/2005
12.	Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Armageddon – 12/18/2005
13.	D-Generation-X vs Vince McMahon/Shane McMahon/Big Show – Unforgiven – 09/17/2006
14.	World Heavyweight Championship – Batista (c) vs Undertaker – Survivor Series – 11/18/2007
15.	*Edge vs Undertaker – Summerslam – 08/17/2008
16.	World Heavyweight Championship – CM Punk (c) vs Undertaker – Hell in a Cell – 10/04/2009
17.	D-Generation-X vs Cody Rhodes & Ted Dibiase – Hell in a Cell – 10/04/2009
18.	WWE Championship – Randy Orton (c) vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell – 10/03/2010
19.	World Heavyweight Championship- Kane (c) vs Undertaker – Hell in a Cell – 10/03/2010
20.	Triple H vs Undertaker – WrestleMania – 04/01/2012*


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks for that guys. I think I may have to purchase this as I'm a sucker for some very good Hell in a Cell matches, seems a very solid list!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some HIAC ratings for the HIAC set:

1. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker – Badd Blood – 10/5/1997 - ***** GOAT
2. Kane & Mankind vs Stone Cold Steve Austin & Undertaker – Raw 06/15/1998 - 1/2* (more of a segment)
3. Mankind vs Undertaker – King of the Ring – 06/25/1998 - ****1/4
4. Kane vs Mankind – Raw – 08/24/1998 - **1/2 (pretty solid, often forgotten HIAC)
5. WWE Championship – Triple H (c) vs Cactus Jack – No Way Out – 02/27/2000 - ****1/2
6. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle (c) vs Undertaker vs The Rock vs Rikishi vs Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Triple H – Armageddon – 12/20/2000 - ****
7. Chris Jericho vs Triple H – Judgment Day – 05/19/2002 - ***
8. WWE Championship – Brock Lesnar (c) vs Undertaker – No Mercy 10/20/2002 - ****3/4
9. World Heavyweight Championship – Triple H (c) vs Kevin Nash - Badd Blood – 06/15/2003 - ***
10. Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels – Badd Blood – 06/13/2004 - ***
11. World Heavyweight Championship – Batista (c) vs Triple H – Vengeance – 06/26/2005 - ****1/2
12. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Armageddon – 12/18/2005 - ****1/2
13. D-Generation-X vs Vince McMahon/Shane McMahon/Big Show – Unforgiven – 09/17/2006 - ***1/4
14. World Heavyweight Championship – Batista (c) vs Undertaker – Survivor Series – 11/18/2007 - ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Hardcore Show said:


> 15.	*Edge vs Undertaker – Summerslam – 08/17/2008
> 16.	World Heavyweight Championship – CM Punk (c) vs Undertaker – Hell in a Cell – 10/04/2009*


Thanks for that, i hardly watched any wrestling between 2005-10 so ill have to watch these ones in the future (Y)


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

How have I not seen The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton in Hell in a Cell!? Has my brain gone completely mad? I've missed the best Casket match of all time apparently and a four and a half star Hell in a Cell match? Definitely need to give these two matches a watch.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Why did HHH go over Austin before his WM 17 match with The Rock?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watch the entire Undertaker/Orton series while you are at it .

WrestleMania - ****1/4
Smackdown - ***3/4
SummerSlam - ****1/4 (better than WM imo)
No Mercy Casket Match - ****1/4
Armageddon HIAC - ****1/2


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Watch the entire Undertaker/Orton series while you are at it .
> 
> WrestleMania - ****1/4
> Smackdown - ***3/4
> ...


I saw the Summerslam and Wrestlemania matches and loved both. Will definitely have to view the No Mercy Casket Match as well as the Armageddon Hell in a Cell, thanks!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Why did HHH go over Austin before his WM match with The Rock?


This is just my opinion, but I think Austin losing such a big match against his most personal rival ever got to Austin psychologically and led to his descent in character thus selling out to McMahon to win a match "he needed more anything" to win. I thought it was a great point in the character progression for Steve Austin to ultimately turn heel.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Yeah, I can see the logic in that.

What did you think of the match? rating?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Yeah, I can see the logic in that.
> 
> What did you think of the match? rating?


Triple H's best match ever in my opinion. 5 star rating for me!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Around ***1/4 for HHH/Austin NWO 01. Didn't like it nearly as much on last watch. Thought the first 2 falls were mostly bad. 3rd fall was really good though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Would have to re-watch it but the last time I did it held up as a great match. I've never given a rating to it but for now I would say 4 1/2 based on memory because it's been a while. I really loved the second and third falls with the weapons and brawling. Finish kept both strong.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH/Austion NWO- ****1/4


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XXV*
Reliant Stadium, Houston, Texas; April 5, 2009
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker​
This is the penultimate review on the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud and matches they brought. The one from Wrestlemania 25, the one many say is their best match ever. I would agree with them but by saying it is the best match they had at Wrestlemania. I still think that the Badd Blood Hell in a Cell match between the two 12 or so years ago is the best between the two but opinions are different and that is just my two cents on that one.

It starts off with an awesomely cool entrance from Shawn Michaels, who wore the all white outfit and was lowered in a fireman-like basket. Once he was lowered to the floor, his standard entrance music played and he performed his usual routine. The Undertaker made his standard entrance which is always really long but still pretty cool visually. 

Shawn used the stick and move approach early as he has done in the past. He climbed to the second rope and did the crotch chop in which was made famous by him and Triple H during their DX run. The Undertaker ran at him and Shawn jumped over him. He came up holding his groin as if he was hurt and then dove at Taker to show he was faking him out, classic Michaels. Shawn controlled the first five minutes of the match and applied a leg lock on Taker, we then got reminded by Ross said he's never seen Taker submit once, well that sucks, this match now has to go on for longer.

Shawn continued to work over Taker's left knee as the live crowd traded dueling "HBK" and "Undertaker" chants, the crowd were up for this and boy so was I. The Undertaker caught Shawn when he was going for a move and took over on offense. He eventually hit Snake Eyes and scored his first near fall, the first of many boy believe me! The Undertaker signalled for the chokeslam early on, but Shawn countered with the STF. A very cool counter early on!

We are about ten minutes into the match now, Shawn jumped off the top rope and Taker caught him by the throat. Shawn broke free and set up for the superkick, but Taker dropped on his back, so far some nice story-telling by both men. Shawn went for a leg lock, but Taker turned it into the Hell's Gate. Shawn struggled and eventually reached the ropes with his legs to break the hold. You can tell both men want this win, the crowd are eating it up! 

When Taker was outside the ring, Shawn went to the top rope while Taker was on the floor. Shawn went for a moon sault, but Taker just swatted him away, causing Shawn to crash hard on the floor, a horrible looking bump for Shawn but he's been taking them his whole career. Taker rolled back inside the ring while the referee checked on Shawn at ringside. Taker sat up in Dead Man style to a nice pop from the crowd. Taker ran the ropes and dove over the top rope at HBK, but Shawn pulled a cameraman in front of him to take the blow, and there we see more officials getting hurt in match ups between these two men, DAMN YOU MEN!!

Both wrestlers, the cameraman, and the referee were all lying at ringside, it was like a war scene out there, Taker landed dead on his head, looked fucking painful. The replay showed that Taker absorbed most of the blow and that the camera man didn't do much to brace his fall. The replay also showed that Shawn threw the referee into the guardrail, that bastard!

Shawn recovered and pulled the referee back inside the ring. A second referee ran out to check on Taker, watch out though referee, Taker has a habit of beating up referee's when he's angry, luckily this didn't happen this time, calm Taker. The referee started to count out Taker while Shawn sat in the corner praying that Taker wouldn't get back inside the ring. Taker made it back inside the ring at the nine count, SURPRISINGLY!

Shawn went for Sweet Chin Music, but Taker avoided it and chokeslammed him. Taker went for the cover and got a great near fall. The announcers put over the chokeslam in a big way, JR was awesome throughout the whole match and shows how a commentator can really add to a match. Taker and Shawn jockeyed for position as they both went for big moves. Shawn won the exchange by hitting Sweet Chin Music. He covered Taker, who kicked out at the last possible moment, I thought that was it!

Another finisher coming up and it was Undertaker's time to pick another one of his three finishers and this time went for the Last Ride, but Shawn slipped out. Taker caught him with a second attempt and hit the Last Ride for a great near fall that popped the live crowd in a major way. How many finishers can these guys take? Neither men want to lose this, awesome awesome match. You really started to think to yourself, who on earth is going to win this!?

The Undertaker whipped Shawn toward the ropes, Shawn skinned the cat. Taker caught him in the Tombstone position as he tried to get back in the ring. The Undertaker hit the Tombstone and covered Shawn with his arms folded on his chest, this is it, this has got to be it! But NO Shawn had kicked out again. Taker flashed a look of shock, a memorable image that'll go down in history as well as the commentary.. "BAH GOD, I JUST HAD AN OUTER BODY EXPERIENCE!!!", I love you JR, I really do! 

The Undertaker pulled down the straps of his tights and gave the throat slashing gesture, this is it now surely. Michaels just got hit with a Tombstone, he can't have much left in him. Taker picked up Shawn and went for what appeared to be another Tombstone, but Shawn countered with a sloppy DDT, but I'm not complaining no one cared that the move was off. Shawn struggled to his feet and eventually climbed to the top rope. He nailed a top rope elbow drop!

After such a battle, Shawn struggled to his feet and set up in the corner for the Sweet Chin Music, he was tuning up the band. Shawn nailed the move and went for the cover, at this point you are wondering what the hell these men have to do to win the match, The Undertaker somehow kicked out at literally the last possible second, what the actual fuck!?

Both men eventually got back on their feet and exchanged a series of chops, which were greeted with "Woo's", hell watching from my sofa I gave a few woo's, who didn't!? from the crowd. The Undertaker ended the exchange with a big boot. He scooped up Shawn for a Tombstone, but Shawn fought his way out with elbows to Taker's head.

I looked at the clock and couldn't believe half hour had passed such was the brilliance of the match. Shawn went for a moonsault off the top rope, but The Phenom caught him in Tombstone position. Taker hit the Tombstone and covered Michaels, 1.....2.......3, no kick out this time but my word what an absolute slobber knocker. The live crowd gave them a standing ovation, the commentators gave them a standing ovation, fuck, even I gave them a standing ovation whilst both men were still lying on the mat. Absolutely brilliant by two absolute greats. A worthy winner for Match of the Year, nothing came close at all.

--

I give this match FIVE STARS ***** Just amazing, seriously. I am not over hyping this match because I like both men, it's pulsating from start to finish. I know a lot of people don't like matches with false finishes etc but this is as much enjoyable as any match you are ever likely to see. You can't help but get involved in the match and root for both men, you don't care who wins the match, in fact you don't even want it to end! Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, a match worthy of the five star rating given.

Coming up next is the last review of mine in the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker feud, it is the last match of Shawn Michaels and of course it is the Career vs. Streak match that took place at Wrestlemania 26...


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

That NWO match is borderline the full 5, having seen it in years though.

Watched Trips/Michaels/Benoit from Backlash last night, was almost as good as the first.

EDIT: I like reading reviews but I hate play by play reviews. We've all seen the match just rather people talk about their opinions and their version on the perceived story telling and psychology, or lack of maybe.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Some reytingz from the Edge set:
vs Eddie Guerrero - Smackdown ****1/2
vs Alberto Del Rio - Wrestlemania XXVII: ****
vs Michaels - RAW ***1/2
vs Christian - RAW ****

This was actually the first time I got around to seeing the Toronto match. As much as I loved it, it got me so ticked off that we never got to see a proper "modern day" Edge vs Christian feud. I can tell you all the background segments and promos and other little teasers they've done from Backlash 2009 to the 2010 Draft Lottery to the Smackdown after Wrestlemania even last year, and with all of that done they ended up leaving it too late. Fuuuuu--. You get a tentative idea of what it would have been like with the interviews Edge did post retirement, and apparently Edge would have been written out for a while and then the feud would have resumed to culminate at this year's Wrestlemania. Damn, if only.

Late but, five favourite HHH matches:

1) vs Batista - Vengeance 2005
2) vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVIII
3) vs Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000
4) vs Benoit vs Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
5) vs Jericho Fully Loaded 2000 OR vs Rock vs Angle - Summerslam 2000

I would have liked to do a top 5 promos as well seeing as he's known for being great on the mic and I like promos, but I wouldn't know where to start. Anyone care to fill me in?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*New Year's Revolution 2005*

_William Regal/Eugene vs Christian/Tyson Tomko_

Regal and Eugene defending here. On paper this actually looked pretty solid, given that we had WILLIAM FUCKING REGAL, Nick Dinsmore (before WWE decided to make his moveset consist of nothing but crappy finishers), Christian, and MEH...Tyson Tomko. What we got was no exception, as this match was a more formula based tag match with bits of Regal awesomeness thrown in on the side. Whenever Tomko isn't in the ring this match is actually quite awesome, it's a shame that Dinsmore destroys his knee in this one, practically signaling the end of his little comedy character push he had going.

Oh and I forgot to mention; The crowd is fucking PSYCHED for this event, I mean damn, the reaction for Regal and Eugene is just off the charts. Anyways, solidly decent stuff here, as the tag champs retain the get the crowd absolutely jacked.

*** 3/4*

_Lita vs Trish Stratus_

Remember when this feud was more important than anything on Raw besides the World Title picture ? Ahh those were the days, as these two arguably have the greatest in-ring chemistry of all time between two women. This starts off fast and extremely promising, as Lita begins an onslaught of Trish right from the get-go. However, this begins to take a turn for the worst following an outside the ring lou-thesz press, where Lita legitimately fucks up her knee big time. Ouch. Trish works on it a little more to keep the match going, and ends this with a chick kick. I can't really rate this as it really isn't fair to both of these very talented females. Sucks for everyone who was hoping to see another classic. 

*N/A*

_Shelton Benjamin vs Maven_

So right about now we're in the "Shelton Benjamin has the midas fucking touch" phase of his career as he is just amazing and incapable of having a bad match. Maven was recently given a little credibility, so this match is also quite intriguing. However, WWE decides to fuck over the fans by having Maven come out and taunt the fans for about 10 minutes, and although he's quite entertaining, I want to finally see some wrestling damnit! 

This match consists of one move; a rollup. Maven wants a rematch, gets a T-bone suplex, and the match is over again as I'm wondering what exactly is WWE planning to do with all the remaining time on this PPV. Two of the top 3 best potential matches on the card had a combined 3 minutes of actual wrestling. I obviously can't rate this shit

*N/A (DUD as a match, MEH as a segment)*

_Muhammad Hassan vs Jerry Lawler_

Gee, I wonder who is going to win this match ? There is just so much drama here that I'm interested in ! This is Hassan's first PPV appearance here, and he wasn't really all that special as some people might claim, but I like seeing Lawler wrestle from time to time so fuck it. This match really could have used some commentary to tell a better story, but Lawler did the best he could to have a match with a very very green Hassan.

very basic story here, as Muhammad Hassan is just a random foreign dick who hates america, although he gets an extraordinary amount of heat (although this isn't even IN America!). What can I say about this, the pace is extremely slow, and the psychology isn't very good, but Lawler makes it atleast somewhat watchable. Obviously Hassan wins. This also got TEN MINUTES, WTF !

** 3/4*

_Gene Snitsky vs Kane_

Okay, what were they smoking here to give Shelton Benjamin a two-move match while giving Gene Snitsky vs Kane 12 minutes? This is actually the co main event here and the problem is simple: Kane isn't the Undertaker, therefore he can't carry these random big men to average-to-great matches. Snitsky however, holds his own for quite a nice portion of the match. He gets some really good offense in, and the psychology isn't all that bad, it's just that I could care less about this match.

Kane seems like he dosen't care at all, which is never a good sign. This match certainly has good intentions, and actually isn't BAD at all, it's just waaaay too long and sloppy for these two, and this match to be treated as a huge grudge match is certainly laughable. Don't avoid, but don't watch again.

****

_Elimination Chamber (Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Triple H w/Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels)_

Fifty-nine minutes. That's how long this segment takes, complete with a video package, entrances, and the match itself. About 40 percent of the show is spent on this match, and it is pure fucking AWESOME. Every single second of this segment is absolutely amazing. We start off with Benoit and Jericho, as we get an excellent technical part of the chamber, and once Triple H and Edge join, this match is all about WRESTLING. For the first fifteen minutes of this match, we're building up to the story with excellent technical wrestling, which is what a good match should strive for.

Once Orton and Batista enter the match however, the story-telling begins to unravel and we have ourselves a masterpiece. We're left in anticipation for the showdown between HHH and Batista, as well as the stories between HHH and Orton, Batista and Orton, and Edge/HBK. All of this deep storytelling occurs while Jericho and Benoit are still being technically awesome, and the match is still as violent as ever. It even has some sick spots, specifically Benoit's diving headbutt from the top of the chamber.

Batista's monster eliminations of Jericho and Benoit is how Goldberg's dominance should have been at Summerslam 2003. Edge gets eliminated by HBK, furthering the rivalry between those two, leaving us with a story diverse trio of Batista-Orton-HHH. I was on the edge of my seat for the conclusion of this match, and to see how HHH feared Batista made me realize that there was an eventual match coming between the two. HHH winning with Batista's help furthered the story that Orton is right in saying that Batista is nothing more than HHH's lackey. This is the greatest chamber match of all time, bar none. Dosen't hurt that HHH holding up the belt at the end of the show is my all-time favorite moment in wrestling.

***** 3/4*

_Thoughts_

To say this is a one match show might be the biggest understatement of all time. Take the Elimination Chamber match off of this card, and we're talking about a card that's potentially worse than December to Dismember. The first hour and a half of this is pretty horrible, save for the opener. The crowd is awesome though, and the elimination chamber is one of the best complete segments of the last 10 years, so that kind of makes up for everything else. 50 percent of the show is shit, while the other 50 percent is downright awesome.

*6/10 (4 points for the chamber match)*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

My favorite part of that match is the staredown between Batista/HHH and JR's commentary: " NOW, NOW, NOW BY GOD!!! DO YOU WANNA BE THE MAN BATISTA?! DO YOU WANT TO LIVE YOUR DREAM?!"


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XXVI*
University of Phoenix Stadium, Glendale, Arizona; March 28, 2010
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker​
This is the fifth and final review of mine regarding the feud between 'The Showstoppa', 'The Main Event', 'Mr Wrestlemania' himself Shawn Michaels and 'The Deadman', 'The Phenom' yada yada yada, The Undertaker. There last epic encounter which came from the UOPS in Glendale Arizona, the big one, it was Shawn Michael's career vs. The Undertaker's streak. Could they top their unbelievable five star match from the previous year? Well I suppose it was a question all of us asked. First of all though we were treated to this beauty of a promo:






Now wasn't that fucking special? Bash the WWE all you want regarding storylines, angles, booking etc. but there is one thing you can't bash and that is their ability to churn out amazing video after video after video. I always bow down to the WWE's promo videos hyping up main events and that is one of the all time greats, just like this feud, fitting.

Michaels is out first with no glitz or glamour unlike last year when he gave us that epic entrance of his. The Undertaker comes up from under the stage, something that looked absolutely awesome. The Undertakers official entrance time was actually 3 minutes and 53 seconds, I was surprised.

The match gets under way with everyone in the crowd pumped. Shawn gives the cut-throat gesture to Taker, avoids a charge and lays in some chops, 'Woooooo'. Taker blocks a charge, whips Shawn in and gets snake eyes. Charging clothesline in the corner, Taker goes "Old School", synonymous to The Undertaker now, using in against Michaels in every match he has faced him. Goozle! Shawn goes to the knee to counter and Taker is limping.

Michaels tries for a cross face but Taker escapes and goes to the arm of Michaels. The Heartbreak Kid escapes that and tries early on for the Sweet Chin Music but Taker avoids it and Shawn Michaels instead goes back to the knee. Taker comes back with uppercuts and lays in right hands, then clotheslines Michaels to the floor. Taker lines up for a dive but Shawn comes under the rope in a hurry and takes out Taker's knee. He tries a figure four but Taker kicks him off, I am loving the fact Michaels is targeting the legs of Taker to try and break him down, brilliant storytelling so far using his experience.

To the outside now and Taker rams HBK back-first into the corner post, probably due to the fact that The Undertaker knows of Michaels' history with his back problems. Taker lines up the leg drop on the apron and he CONNECTS with major air, that was nice, but it hurts the leg of Taker, playing up Michaels' damage from earlier in the match. Back inside and Michaels has gone back to the leg and finally manages to get in the figure four, Ric Flair's old move, remember Shawn Michaels ended Ric Flairs WWE wrestling career in which was also a career's match! With Taker struggling, he finally rolls over to reverse the pressure, causing a quick break. 

They exchange shots, The Undertaker wins the exchange but Shawn Michaels kips up straight into a Chokeslam, brilliant sequence! Undertaker come close with the two count. Taker pulls up Shawn and goes for the Tombstone, but to no avail! Michaels picks the ankle! Ankle lock, with the grapevine on the leg, Michaels really trying to weaken those legs of Taker! Taker uses his free leg to kick his way out of the hold, Shawn charges and clothesline him up and over the top rope and to the floor! Shawn Michaels then goes for the moonsault to the outside but he is caught and The Undertaker tombstones him on the floor, similar to the spot in the match up last year but this looked even more brutal.

Taker gets the cover on the inside, but Michaels manages to kick out! Now time for his third finishing manoeuvre, time for Shawn Michaels to take the Last Ride but Michaels counters it into an X-Factor looking move! The Heartbreak Kid goes to the top, we all know what he's looking for here don't we? an elbow to the chest? wrong, he delivers it to the knees! Both men suffered from that. Somehow though, The Undertaker locks in Hells Gate! The crowd are fucking eating this up, awesome entertainment and it gets even better, Michaels counters it with a jackknife pin but Taker kicks out, wow. Sweet Chin Music, Sweet Chin Music, Sweet Chin Music!!.. when he hit that I couldn't help but think this match would be so much better if it was J.R. was commentating like last year, somehow Taker kicked out! Michaels starts tuning up the band again but he misses Taker and turns straight into a Last Ride, what velocity, Shawn Michaels literally kicks out at 2.95 there, can you get any closer!?

The Undertaker throws Michaels to the outside and then starts to dismantle the Spanish announce table. Oh boy. This could suck for Shawn and it is going to suck for the Spanish announcers, luckily for them it's the main event! The Undertaker props Shawn up for the Last Ride but Michaels counters it and Taker turns straight into the Sweet Chin Music leaving Taker laying on the table! Michaels has a plan, I think I know what he has in store, an Elbow Drop from the top rope through the heart of Taker and through the table!? I couldn't of been more wrong, he decides to go for a fucking moonsault through the table, brilliant brilliant spot, just amazing! Taker looks out of it, Michaels rolls him inside. Tunes up the band for about the hundredth time and strikes Taker straight in the chin with the Sweet Chin Music, that has GOT to be it. 1....2....NO!!! Taker has fucking kicked out, the crowd are going nuts and bah gawd I just had a fucking outer body experience!... Thanks for that one J.R.

Both men are running on fumes, fuck, I am even running on fumes. Another Sweet Chin Music incoming but Taker grabs the foot, Chokeslam! Taker uses the ropes to pull himself up, he literally hardly has anything left, grabs Michaels and plants him with a Tombstone, this is it, 1....2.........2.99.. KICK OUT! What the fuck is going on!? How on earth is this even continuing? Cole and Lawler are losing their voices, I don't blame them, I'm surprised half the crowd haven't. Cole reckons we can feel the emotion seeping through the pores of the WWE Universe. Whatever Cole. Where is J.R. when you need him!? .. Uh-oh, the straps are down, The Undertaker cut-throats in a way only Taker can do, he pretty much orders Michaels to stay down. Using Takers body, Shawn somehow pulls himself up and gives Undertaker his version of the cut-throat before releasing a vicious slap on Taker, with eyes bulging and I'm sure a little bit of spittle coming out of his mouth Taker lifts Shawn Michaels up and gives him the damnedest, most devastating Tombstone I have ever seen in my 19 years of watching Professional Wrestling. ! This has got to be it for the career of Shawn Michaels.. 1.......2.........3.

What a match, I am exhausted and so are the crowd. WWE made the right call by having this match headline because obviously nothing else on the card could follow this in any way possible. Amazing match, not their best but that just shows how good of a performance these two men can put on with each other, my hats off to both of you. Thank you Shawn, you truly are Mr. Wrestlemania. 

--

I give this match FOUR AND 3/4 STARS ****3/4. This was just absolutely brilliant. I gave it a four and a three quarter star rating due to the fact that I didn't think it was AS good as last years or the Badd Blood encounter but boy it was fucking awesome. I loved every second of it like I have enjoyed every second of all of their matches. This match was the most perfect way to end Michaels' career, what a way to bow out. The story-telling throughout the match was the two at their very best.

That is all for my reviews on the feud of Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker. I have enjoyed watching these matches again and giving my two cents on them, I hope you enjoyed reading my reviews, I may even do some more on maybe some other matches or some other feuds, depending on how I feel, Thank you for your time.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I find it really hard to chosse between the Mania 25 and 26 matches. I love both for different reasons. I thought 25 had a much better atmosphere, and better nearfalls to suck you into the match as well as JR being awesome, but 26 had better storytelling (25's was still great), an amazing sell job from Taker and that awesome ending. I absolutely love both matches, but for some reason I can't go the full 5 for either, even though I could watch them and love them at any time.

Also, on the subject of Punk's reign, I think it's been awesome match quality wise. Punk is probably my WOTY as far as North America goes by far at this point. I can't remember a match he's had since being champ that wasn't good. All the Ziggler matches, Del Rio, Bryan, Henry and Jericho matches have all been very good - great. Punk is definitely the second top guy on the full time roster behind Cena which is awesome, and honestly it's great to see WWE have this much faith in him to give him this long title reign and come off as the second guy. As a long time Punk fan it's awesome to see even if he isn't the top top guy, but he's closer to that mantle than I ever thought he would be so it's all good for me. I definitely think the WWE belt needed a long reign to bring some kind of prestige back to it, and I definitely think Punk is the guy to do that whilst always delivering in the ring.

Saying all that, his feuds have been lackluster apart from most of the Jericho one and his mini feud with Henry. I'm hoping him and Bryan can have a good feud if creative don't turn it into something awful involving meat and alcohol.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk has certainly been the most legitimate champion the WWE has had in a while, and as a long time Punk fan I'm very happy to see that and hope the reign continues much, much longer. I'd put him as Wrestler of the Year as well, although I do not watch any other wrestling other than WWE anymore. My interest for every other promotion has vanished completely.

Some starz for Punk's title reign.

Survivor Series '11: Punk/Del Rio - ****
RAW 11/21: Punk/Ziggler - ****
TLC '11: Punk/Del Rio/Miz - ****1/4
RAW 1/30: Punk/Bryan - ***1/2
Smackdown 2/21: Punk/Bryan - ***3/4
Royal Rumble '12: Punk/Ziggler - ***1/2
Wrestlemania XXVIII: Punk/Jericho - ****1/4
RAW 4/2/12: Punk/Henry - ****
RAW 4/16/12: Punk/Henry - ***3/4
Extreme Rules '12: Punk/Jericho - ****1/4

Bah God.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Punk has certainly been the most legitimate champion the WWE has had in a while, and as a long time Punk fan I'm very happy to see that and hope the reign continues much, much longer. I'd put him as Wrestler of the Year as well, although I do not watch any other wrestling other than WWE anymore. My interest for every other promotion has vanished completely.
> 
> Some starz for Punk's title reign.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Punk has had a kick ass reign, and I'd agree with Wrestler of the Year as well. 

Here's where I put those matches for RATINGZ!

Survivor Series '11: Punk/Del Rio - ***3/4
RAW 11/21: Punk/Ziggler - ****
TLC '11: Punk/Del Rio/Miz - ***3/4
RAW 1/30: Punk/Bryan - ***1/4
Smackdown 2/21: Punk/Bryan - ***3/4
Royal Rumble '12: Punk/Ziggler - **** (their Raw match from November was better though)
Wrestlemania XXVIII: Punk/Jericho - **** 
RAW 4/2/12: Punk/Henry - ***3/4
RAW 4/16/12: Punk/Henry - ***1/4
Extreme Rules '12: Punk/Jericho - ****1/4

While I'm not quite as high on some as Wrestlingfan, that's still an impressive resume of matches in a 6 month time span. 4 4 star plus matches, 4 matches close to 4 stars, and a couple of them being TV gems. As for the Raw Punk/Bryan match, I honestly need to re-watch as I don't remember it that well, and Punk/Henry street fight was good, but not close to their match after Mania. And it looks like if given enough time at OTL with Bryan, he'll be adding another ****+ match to the list. We'll just have to wait and see. I personally can't wait. I'm actually happy just for that that OTL is only a couple weeks away.... though that doesn't give them a lot of time to put together a great storyline.

But eh, probably wouldn't have been given anything good to work with anyway, so them being given a quick feud into OTL is perfect.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Punk has certainly been the most legitimate champion the WWE has had in a while, and as a long time Punk fan I'm very happy to see that and hope the reign continues much, much longer. I'd put him as Wrestler of the Year as well, although I do not watch any other wrestling other than WWE anymore. My interest for every other promotion has vanished completely.
> 
> Some starz for Punk's title reign.
> 
> ...


I think his run as Champion reminds me of the first few times Bret Hart win the Championship where he was putting the it on the line a lot & more often then not you where going to get an enjoyable match every time he wrestled.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Obis said:


> Yeah, Punk has had a kick ass reign, and I'd agree with Wrestler of the Year as well.
> 
> Here's where I put those matches for RATINGZ!
> 
> ...


I agree with you, I don't want them to put too much of a story in the Bryan/Punk angle. I'm not expecting the Bryan feud to go past OTL, and frankly I'm okay with that for now. Maybe until June's PPV, is as far as I see it going. 

I may have been generous towards the two Henry/Punk matches, as I've only watched the second once and the first twice. But I feel both men played the David/Goliath part to perfection. And the crowd for both of these matches added such a great element to them. I fucking love the London crowds. I too think the Henry/Punk match from 4/2 is better than their London street fight, even though the finish of the street fight is so much stronger. And I'd like to add that I think the most underrated match of his reign in my opinion is the TLC match. I guess because I was just so pleasantly surprised by it. I'm not that big on Del Rio and Miz but the two impressed the hell out of me with their performances in this one. Kudos to them. A match with creative spots with an actual story, and a great finish.


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Survivor Series '11: Punk/Del Rio - ***1/2
TLC '11: Punk/Del Rio/Miz - ***1/2
Royal Rumble '12: Punk/Ziggler - ***
Wrestlemania XXVIII: Punk/Jericho - ****
RAW 4/2/12: Punk/Henry - ***
RAW 4/16/12: Punk/Henry - ***
Extreme Rules '12: Punk/Jericho - ****

Been a good reign.


----------



## Hazaq (Apr 25, 2012)

Brye said:


> Speaking of Triple H matches, I love Trips/Hardy from NM '08.


This match is so underrated. 




The-Rock-Says said:


> Why did HHH go over Austin before his WM 17 match with The Rock?


Because Austin needed Heel HHH for Two-man power trip later that year. Thats also the reason Austin let HHH go over clean but not without a sweet stunner post match and walk out the better man lol. Classic austin. 

But yeah, thats basically the reason. There was even a observer report on this at the time. 




greendayedgehead said:


> I would have liked to do a top 5 promos as well seeing as he's known for being great on the mic and I like promos, but *I wouldn't know where to start.* Anyone care to fill me in?


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Seeing as you guys are doing Top 5 matches in this thread, I am just curious what are Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho's best 5 matches of their career?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Ownage™ said:


> Can't come up with an accurate HHH top 5. There's a lot of stuff I'd have to re-watch. Say what you want about the guy but he's had more classics (or borderline classics) than most guys from his generation.


Basically. Except Shawn Michaels, I can't think of anybody from that generation.




The-Rock-Says said:


> Why did HHH go over Austin before his WM 17 match with The Rock?


Clique added his perspective, which is true.

The booking reason was, simply, WWE wanted to do the Hunter/Austin feud all over again during the summer, with Triple H as a face and Steve Austin as a heel. Triple H would be the "leader" of WWF/E, while Austin would lead the Alliance and the fact that Triple H had already beaten Austin before would work in Hunter's favor when the Power Trip would eventually implode.

The seeds had already been planted, with Austin retaining the WWE Title with the help of Triple H at Judgment Day 2001, while Hunter lost the IC Title due to a mistake by Austin. The next night during the infamous tag team match against Benoit/Jericho, Hunter's mistake cost their team the match and the psychology of Austin taking the fall was to advance the story line of Austin not being the "Stone Cold" of before. The scheduled matches for them at King of the Ring 2001 was Austin/Jericho and Hunter/Benoit in singles matches. Austin would retain the title thanks to Hunter, but Triple H would end up losing to Benoit due to Austin's interference. Both would eventually implode in the next PPV, with Triple H eventually turning face and wrestling Austin for the title at SummerSlam.

Of course, it never happened, so WWE went ahead with the Triple Threat match at King of the Ring. The entire Alliance program was in a mess because there was nobody big enough to wrestle Austin as the leader of WWE since WWE couldn't capture most of the genuine wCw stars. That left WWE with Rock and Austin only, and they didn't want to do Austin/Rock again so soon after 'Mania X-Seven.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

When we say "Triple H's generation" what are we talking about - the last 10 years? Because Undertaker has had a ton of big time quality and classic matches in that period too along with Michaels.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Undertaker's "Classic" Matches are against mostly Shawn and 3 with HHH so Razor king is right.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Eddie's matches with Rey at Halloween Havoc '97 and Smackdown '05 (I forget the date) would be in his top five. Against Lesnar at No Way Out '04 and JBL at Judgment Day '05 as well off the top of my head. Not sure about the last one.

For Jericho I'd have Fully Loaded '00 v HHH, Royal Rumble '01 v Benoit for sure. Probably The Bash '09 v Mysterio. Not sure what else. Maybe one of (maybe even both) the big Michaels matches (Mania 19 and No Mercy '08 ladder).


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Jericho vs Shawn at Mania 19 is average imo.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I thought it was fantastic but it's a been a while since I saw it. Certainly a top Jericho performance if not a top Jericho match. He was way better than Shawn in that match.


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

I loved Jericho/HBK at WM19, thought it was excellent. Two of my favorite performers in what I watched as a pretty near perfect performance. Great storytelling, great spots, a fantastic ending (I love the surprise rollup) and the aftermath with Jericho giving the low blow was perfect. I thought it was great. Up until a certain two HBK/Undertaker matches at Mania, it was my favorite Wrestlemania match.


----------



## Contrarian (Apr 21, 2012)

Does anyone think the match between Shawn and kurt from Mania 21 is overrated?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Contrarian said:


> Does anyone think the match between Shawn and kurt from Mania 21 is overrated?


I think it was overrated 3 or 4 years ago but not right now lol.The match was great and i have it at ****1/2.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think its overrated when people call it the greatest match ever or greatest WM match ever, but its still a great match, just has some flaws.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah it's around the ****1/2 range for me. Great match but yeah, it's not the best WM match ever like some people claim.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Brock Lesnar Top 5*

Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker - No Mercy 2002
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - 60 Minute Iron Man
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Extreme Rules 2012
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2003 (I personally thought it was better than their WM match, not sure if many will agree on that but in saying that, I've only watched their WM match twice, I think.)
Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out 2004

Honourable Mention:

Brock Lesnar vs. Hulk Hogan (Smackdown 2002, because it was fucking awesome seeing him destroy Hogan)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Vyed said:


> Undertaker's "Classic" Matches are against mostly Shawn and 3 with HHH so Razor king is right.


...and Edge... and Batista... and Kurt Angle.... and Randy Orton, each having at least a couple of classics with Taker, if not more. Not to mention 3 out of the 4 of them aren't even great workers. 

I'd say Undertaker overall beats out just about anyone not named HBK for most classics tbh. Not to mention having a lot of great TV and PPV matches as well, some that are borderline classics.


----------



## Hladeit (Feb 24, 2012)

Taker vs Batista/Edge/orton are considered "classics"?? Really? 

Good-great matches, sure. Calling it "classic" is simply overrating them imo.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Chris Jericho's two standout matches are Fully Loaded 2000 and No Mercy 2008. I think I have both at **** 3/4. WrestleMania XIX is a splendid match, but it wasn't the show stealer for me. That honor goes to Rock/Austin III, and it didn't frankly steal the show. It _was_ the show.

Lesnar had a lot of great matches in his short span at the top of WWE, which is pretty much his entire career. His absolute best is the Iron Man match against Angle followed by the Benoit match from SmackDown in December of 2003. After that, I'd say it's between the HIAC match against 'Taker and the SummerSlam '03 bout against Angle. Obviously, I haven't watched his "extreme" match against Cena--while typing all of this.

It might be difficult for me to form a "best of Triple H," but my 5 favorite matches of his would be (as they happened) Royal Rumble 2000 (Foley), Judgment Day 2000 (Rock; probably my all time favorite match), SummerSlam 2002 (Michaels), No Mercy 2008 (Jeff), and WrestleMania XXVII (Undertaker).




Clique said:


> When we say "Triple H's generation" what are we talking about - the last 10 years? Because Undertaker has had a ton of big time quality and classic matches in that period too along with Michaels.


Perhaps, the past 12 - 14 years, or even break it down to the years after Hunter and Michaels formed the original DX. That would be "Triple H's generation."


Edit:

On the whole "classic" thing, for me, a 5-star match or a near 5-star match is a classic. The definition. The rest are incredible matches, but not necessarily--classics. There are exceptions, obviously. For example, Rock/Hogan IS a classic; so is Hogan/Andre, personally.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Vyed said:


> Undertaker's "Classic" Matches are against mostly Shawn and 3 with HHH so Razor king is right.


I didn't disagree with him just that Taker and Michaels should be mentioned as well. Taker's had classics with Angle, Lesnar, Batista and Edge this decade too. Of course that's a matter of opinion as you might have seen some people have mixed feels on HHH's considered classics with Austin and Michaels.




Hladeit said:


> Taker vs Batista/Edge/orton are considered "classics"?? Really?
> 
> Good-great matches, sure. Calling it "classic" is simply overrating them imo.


Depends on what you personally consider a classic match.


----------



## Hladeit (Feb 24, 2012)

Taker/Orton is the probably the best of the three taker matches mentioned above and its not even considered a "classic".


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Taker/Angle is better than 99% of anything Undertaker. Definitely classic.

Taker/Batista series is incredibly solid, but I wouldn't go saying any of it was 'Classic'.

Taker/Edge series was a notch above Taker/Batista. Classic.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I love Angle/Michaels from WrestleMania 21. My favorite Angle match ever. Incredible match. I wish I still had the motivation to describe the excellence of that match... It really is that good.

And, that's where the feud stopped for me because everything afterwards isn't worthy of being reminded of. Yes.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Razor King said:


> On the whole "classic" thing, for me, a 5-star match or a near 5-star match is a classic. The definition. The rest are incredible matches, but not necessarily--classics. There are exceptions, obviously. For example, Rock/Hogan IS a classic; so is Hogan/Andre, personally.


So is Michaels/Flair, complete emotion and storytelling of a career at its finest. "Classic" sometimes goes beyond wrestling holds. Taker/Mankind HIAC is a classic no matter how many times people say it's just a two spot match.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

My Kurt Angle WWE top 5

vs Brock Lesnar Summerslam 2003
vs Chris Benoit Royal Rumble 2003
vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 21
vs Undertaker No Way Out 2006
vs Brock Lesnar Ironman match Smackdown 2003


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I think Undertaker has had more 4-star plus matches than Triple H in the last 5 - 7 years because Hunter slowed down during the same time and Undertaker peaked around that period.

From a general perspective, there are segments of fans who consider the Orton series and Batista series for Undertaker as "classics," but when we talk about the general consensus, people remember those series for the great matches, but not neccesarily in the same breath as Undertaker's classics against Angle, Michaels, and Triple H. In fact, the Hell in a Cell match against Edge is considered a classic by majority of the fans and is the closest that comes to the matches against Angle/Michaels/Hunter. Generally of course. I'm not big on the Orton matches, but I generally adore the Batista matches. As being somebody who didn't think highly of the entire Edge series, I've come to love the main event of WrestleMania XXIV and it's one of the best main events for me.

I think the "classic" matches of Undertaker and Triple H from 2005 are--and I'm only including 5-star and **** 3/4 matches here:

*The Undertaker:*

- No Way Out 2006 vs. Kurt Angle ~ **** 3/4
- WrestleMania XXV vs. Shawn Michaels ~ **** 3/4
- WrestleMania XXVI vs. Shawn Michaels ~ ***** (Undertaker's best match ever)
- WrestleMania XXVII vs. Triple H ~ *****
- WrestleMania XXVIII vs. Triple H ~ **** 3/4

*Triple H:*

- Vengeance 2005 vs. Batista ~ **** 3/4
- Taboo Tuesday 2005 vs. Flair ~ **** 3/4 (I LOVE this match!)
- WrestleMania XXVII vs. the Undertaker ~ *****
- WrestleMania XXVIII vs. the Undertaker ~ **** 3/4

Even when you look here, if we erase the year 2005, from 2006 onwards Hunter's only classics are against Undertaker, which obviously indicates a trend for both wrestlers. That doesn't mean Triple H hasn't had some spectacular matches, but it suggests that Undertaker has been spectacularly dominant in this period. While there are four matches against DX in the list, Undertaker has been in a magnificent run since 2006.


@ Clique Yes, those matches... I can't remember all of 'em of course.


----------



## Hladeit (Feb 24, 2012)

Randy Orton's Top 5?

@Razor king 

Yes Taker kinda sucked in the ring until 2006. He has been great after that, 2007 is his best year imo.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

1. vs. Shawn @ Survivor Series 2007
2. vs. Hunter @ No Mercy 2007
3. vs. Foley @ Backlash 2004

Don't care for the rest! Obviously, the list is without the matches against Christian, which I haven't watched.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Taker's Classic matches in the 90's:*

vs. Mankind (The entire series)
vs. Bret Hart (Summerslam 97 and One Night Only)
vs. Hogan - Survivor series 91 (Classic moment)
vs. Shawn Michaels (The entire series)
vs. Kane - Wrestlemania 14
vs. Stone Cold - Fully loaded '99
vs. The Rock - King of The Ring '99

*Taker's Classic matches in the last 12 years:*

vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 17
vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle - Vengeance 2002
vs. Jeff Hardy - Raw 2002
vs. Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002
vs. Kurt Angle - SmackDown 2003
vs. John Cena - Smackdown 2004
vs. Randy Orton - Wrestlemania 21 
vs. Randy Orton - Armageddon 2005
vs. Kurt Angle - NWO 2006
vs. Kurt Angle - Smackdown 2006
vs. Batista - (The entire series)
vs. Edge - Wrestlemania 24
vs. Edge - Summerslam 2008
vs. Big Show - Cyber Sundy 2008
vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 25 
vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 26
vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 27 
vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 28


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Triple H's 4.5 & higher matches from 2000-2009* (imo)

2000
Cactus Jack Rumble - **** 3/4
Cactus Jack NWO - **** 1/2
Rock Backlash - **** 1/2
Rock Judgment Day - **** 1/2
Jericho Fully Loaded - **** 1/2

2001
Austin NWO - **** 1/2

2002
HBK SS - **** 1/2

2004
Triple Threat WM20 - *****
Triple Threat Backlash - **** 1/2

2005
Batista Vengeance - **** 1/2


*Undertaker's 4.5 & higher matches from 2000-2009*

2002
Triple Threat Vengeance - **** 1/2
Lesnar No Mercy - **** 3/4

2003
Angle Smackdown - **** 1/2

2006
Angle NWO - **** 3/4

2007
Batista WM23 - **** 1/2

2008
Edge WM24 - **** 1/2
Edge SummerSlam - **** 1/2

2009
HBK WM25 - *****


Then Taker has a bunch of 4 - 4 1/4 star matches with the likes of Orton, Batista, Edge, Big Show, JBL, Flair, and HHH.


HHH with HBK, Benoit, Jeff Hardy, Flair, Orton, Cena and Taker.


Not to forget *HBK*

2002
HHH SummerSlam - **** 1/2

2003
Jericho WM19 - **** 1/2

2004
Triple Threat WM20 - *****
Triple Threat Backlash 04 - **** 1/2
Benoit Raw (May) - **** 1/2

2005
Angle WM21 - **** 3/4
Shelton Raw (Gold Rush) - **** 1/2


2008
Flair WM24 - **** 1/2
Jericho No Mercy - **** 1/2

2009
Undertaker WM25 - *****

Other 4 - 4 1/4s with Cena, Orton, Batista, HHH, Angle, Edge, Jeff Hardy, and Jericho.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH's classics (Classics for me are generally ****1/2+, though some ****1/4 matches get labeled as classics if something big happen/it had no right being that good for various reasons) (Also only including one on one matches):

2000:
vs. Foley RR00- ****3/4
vs. Rock BL00- ****1/4 (Austin returns puts this as a classic)
vs. Rock JD00- ****1/2
vs. Jericho FL00- ****1/2

2001:

vs. Austin NWO01 ****1/4

2002: 

vs. HBK SS02- ****1/2

2003:

vs. HBK December Raw 03- ****1/4

2005:

vs. Batista Vengeance 05- ****1/2
vs. Flair TT05- ****1/4

2008:
vs. Hardy NM08- ****1/4



Undertaker's classics:

1997:
vs. Bret Hart Summerslam- ****1/2 (Old old rating, need to re-watch it, and haven't seen their ONO or have no recollection of it)
vs. HBK BB97- *****

1998:
VS. Mankind (****... this is a classic for obvious reasons. Definitely not it's technicality, and HHH/Foley's was better in that department, but just how epic and remembered the match is, plus the fact it wasn't terrible by any means makes it a classic)

2002:
vs. Angle SD 02- ****1/4 (need to re-watch)
vs. Lesnar NM03- ****3/4

2003:
vs. Angle SD for WWE Title- ****3/4

2005:
vs. Orton WM21- ****1/4
vs. Orton HIAC- ****1/4

2006:
vs. Angle NWO06- ****3/4
vs. Angle SD after NWO- ****1/4

2007:
vs. Batista WM23- ****1/2
vs. Batista Cyber Sunday- ****1/4
vs. Batista HIAC- ****1/4

2008:
vs. Edge WM24- ****1/4
vs. Edge SS08- ****3/4
vs. Big Show CS- ****1/4 (Recently re-watched it and bumped it up for 4 stars... just a fucking awesome match)

2009:
vs. HBK WM25- *****

2010:
vs. HBK WM26- ****1/2

And that's that. HHH in one year has more classics than Taker for me (2000), but overall Taker over his career compared to HHH's over his... no comparison IMO.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Half those matches aren't _classic_ matches lol. I know it all depends on how you define classic but if you're going to label the likes of Taker/Orton, Taker/Edge and Taker/Batista (bar the 23 match which has a legitimate claim) and Taker/Big Show (lol) as classic matches then you're going to have to add to HHH's list as well and include his incredible-but-not-quite-classic matches too. The fact that you have Taker/Show on there and neither Taker/HHH match speaks volumes lol. Obis, Y U NO LIKE HHH?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Kurt Angle 4.5+ stars 2000 - 2009*

2001
Benoit Backlash - **** 1/2
Shane McMahon KOTR - **** 1/2
Benoit Raw - **** 1/2
Austin SummerSlam - **** 3/4

2002
Triple Threat Vengeance - **** 1/2
Benoit Unforgiven - **** 1/2+
Angle/Benoit vs. Edge/Mysterio No Mercy - *****
Angle/Benoit vs. Edge/Mysterio Smackdown - **** 1/2

2003
Benoit Rumble - *****
Lesnar SummerSlam - **** 1/2
Undertaker Smackdown - **** 1/2
Lesnar Smackdown - **** 1/2

2005
HBK WM21 - **** 3/4

2006
Undertaker NWO - **** 3/4

2008
Joe Lockdown - **** 1/2
Styles Hard Justice - **** 1/2

And a bunch of 4+ star matches with Rock, Austin, HBK, Benoit, Christian, Joe, Jarrett, Abyss, Edge, Mysterio, Taker, Lesnar, Eddie, and Cena.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ Half those matches aren't _classic_ matches lol. I know it all depends on how you define classic but if you're going to label the likes of Taker/Orton, Taker/Edge and Taker/Batista (bar the 23 match which has a legitimate claim) and Taker/Big Show (lol) as classic matches then you're going to have to add to HHH's list as well and include his incredible-but-not-quite-classic matches too. The fact that you have Taker/Show on there and neither Taker/HHH match speaks volumes lol. Obis, Y U NO LIKE HHH?


The thing is, if you like somebody--the enjoyment automatically increases and that would result in 1/2* - * being added normally. When you're watching somebody you think "so-so," of, your rating goes down 1/2* - *. So yeah, that's why we end up having these arguments.

The whole thing should be, "I like so and so; hence, I'd be inclined to rate his matches higher because I enjoy so and so more." Like if somebody rates Orton/Undertaker at 5-stars and Hunter/Undertaker at 3-stars, it doesn't show anything else; it just shows that you enjoyed Orton/Undertaker more than Hunter/Undertaker.

Science of Match Enjoyment :Cornette

I don't know why I wrote that, but yeah--the whole Undertaker vs. Hunter was pointless anyway, so maybe...


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Surprised no one has done an Austin list yet.

*waits patiently for an Austin list*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ Half those matches aren't _classic_ matches lol. I know it all depends on how you define classic but if you're going to label the likes of Taker/Orton, Taker/Edge and Taker/Batista (bar the 23 match which has a legitimate claim) and Taker/Big Show (lol) as classic matches then you're going to have to add to HHH's list as well and include his incredible-but-not-quite-classic matches too. The fact that you have Taker/Show on there and neither Taker/HHH match speaks volumes lol. Obis, Y U NO LIKE HHH?


Read Razor King's post. 

Ill admit, perhaps I am overrating Taker/Show a bit, but that match was just a thrill to watch on last viewing. I don't get that from either of the Taker/HHH matches, which are matches I do believe get overrated a bit much.

The Taker/Orton and Taker/Edge matches that I mentioned are indeed classics in some regard, especially the Taker/Edge cell match.

As far as HHH's "incredible but not quite classic bouts", I'd do that, but then Taker's list would get the same treatment and who knows, Taker may even get a bigger lead on my list. 

Also, even if I did consider Taker/HHH's matches classics, I wouldn't include them on the lists anyway since we're comparing the two directly.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

BUBZ said:


> Surprised no one has done an Austin list yet.
> 
> *waits patiently for an Austin list*


vs. Bret SS 96 - *****
vs. Bret WM 13 - ****3/4
vs. Trips NWO 01 - ****3/4
vs. Benoit SD! - ****3/4
& Trips vs. Jericho & Benoit - ****1/2
& HBK vs. Owen Hart & British Bulldog RAW - ****1/2
vs. Bret vs. Vader vs. Taker Final Four? - ****1/2
Canadian Stampede Match - ****1/2
vs. Rock WM X7 - ****1/2
vs. Angle SS 2002 - ****1/2
Team WWE vs. Team Alliance - ****1/2
6 Man HIAC - ****1/4
vs. Dude Love OTE 98 - ****1/4 (the better of the two, cant remember which event)
vs. Rock BL 99 - ****1/4
vs. Rock WM 19 - ****1/4
vs. Michaels KOTR 97 - ****
vs. Trips NM 99 - ****
vs. Savio Vega ?? - ****

That's a pretty decent list I think. The ratings that are the same can be mixed around, ain't bothered about order, just appreciate Austin, he was the man.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Guess I'll post some top 5's:

Brock Lesnar's Top 5:

1) vs. Taker NM02- ****3/4
2) vs. Angle Ironman SD03 Ironman- ****1/2
3) vs. Angle Summerslam 03- ****1/4
4) vs. Eddie Guerrero NWO04- ****1/4
5) vs. Angle WM19- ****1/4

Kurt Angle's Top 5 (WWE Only)

1) vs. Benoit RR03- *****
2) vs. Undertaker NWO06- ****3/4
3) vs. Austin Summerslam 01- ****3/4
4) vs. Undertaker SD03- ****3/4
5) vs. Lesnar SD03 Ironman- ****1/2

Undertaker's Top 5:

1) vs. HBK BB97- *****
2) vs. HBK WM25- *****
3) vs. Lesnar NM02- ****3/4
4) vs. Angle NWO06- ****3/4
5) vs. Angle SD03- ****3/4

HHH's Top 5:

1) vs. Cactus Jack RR00- ****3/4
2) vs. Rock JD00- ****1/2
3) vs. Batista Vengeance 05- ****1/2
4) vs. Jericho FL00- ****1/2
5) vs. HBK SS02- ****1/2

HBK's Top 5:

1) vs. Taker BB97- *****
2) vs. Taker WM25- *****
3) vs. Razor Ramon WM10- ****3/4
4) vs. Jericho WM19- ****3/4
5) vs. Jericho NM08- ****1/2 (There's a sea of matches at this rating for HBK... had trouble choosing just one )

Jericho's Top 5:

1) vs. HBK WM19- ****3/4
2) vs. Benoit RR01- ****3/4
3) vs. HBK NM08- ****3/4
4) vs. Rock NM01- ****1/2
5) vs. HHH FL00- ****1/2

Austin's Top 5:

1) vs. Bret Hart WM13- *****
2) vs. Bret Hart SS96- *****
3) vs. Rock WM17- *****
4) vs. Angle SS01- ****3/4
5) vs. Rock WM19- ****1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Razor King said:


> The thing is, if you like somebody--the enjoyment automatically increases and that would result in 1/2* - * being added normally. When you're watching somebody you think "so-so," of, your rating goes down 1/2* - *. So yeah, that's why we end up having these arguments.
> 
> The whole thing should be, "I like so and so; hence, I'd be inclined to rate his matches higher because I enjoy so and so more." Like if somebody rates Orton/Undertaker at 5-stars and Hunter/Undertaker at 3-stars, it doesn't show anything else; it just shows that you enjoyed Orton/Undertaker more than Hunter/Undertaker.
> 
> ...


Of course. That's only natural when giving subjective opinions but that doesn't mean some measure of objectivity can't come into play too. It does for me anyways and seems to for most others here as well. 



Obis said:


> Read Razor King's post.
> 
> Ill admit, perhaps I am overrating Taker/Show a bit, but that match was just a thrill to watch on last viewing. I don't get that from either of the Taker/HHH matches, which are matches I do believe get overrated a bit much.
> 
> ...


Same as above. You admit that you're ovarrating Taker/Show right? How can it be considered a classic match then? Classic match to you, yes, but we aren't talking about your favorite matches or even Taker's greatest matches. We're talking _classic_ matches, the cream of the crop, the best of the best, classics. There has to be some measure of objectivity in this discussion otherwise it turns into your favorite matches list. Many people loved the Punk/Henry match on Raw a few weeks back and rate it as one of the best MOTY. Does that make it a classic? I don't think so. It makes it a favorite match of that person, a highly rated match to that person and alright then, lets stretch it to a classic to that person. I'm still of the belief that you have to be somewhat objective when listing truly classic matches though. I love Cena/HHH from Mania 22, think it's an awesome match and a kickass Mania main event but I wouldn't call it a classic match. I feel that's what you're doing with half the matches on this list. I also love both Taker/Orton matches but I wouldn't call them classics either, just really really good, amazing even, matches. That's the difference.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Of course. That's only natural when giving subjective opinions but that doesn't mean some measure of objectivity can't come into play too. It does for me anyways and seems to for most others here as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Same as above. You admit that you're ovarrating Taker/Show right? How can it be considered a classic match then? Classic match to you, yes, but we aren't talking about your favorite matches or even Taker's greatest matches. We're talking _classic_ matches, the cream of the crop, the best of the best, classics. There has to be some measure of objectivity in this discussion otherwise it turns into your favorite matches list. Many people loved the Punk/Henry match on Raw a few weeks back and rate it as one of the best MOTY. Does that make it a classic? I don't think so. It makes it a favorite match of that person, a highly rated match to that person and alright then, lets stretch it to a classic to that person. I'm still of the belief that you have to be somewhat objective when listing truly classic matches though. I love Cena/HHH from Mania 22, think it's an awesome match and a kickass Mania main event but I wouldn't call it a classic match. I feel that's what you're doing with half the matches on this list. I also love both Taker/Orton matches but I wouldn't call them classics either, just really really good, amazing even, matches. That's the difference.


Yes, I am admitting Taker/Show isn't a classic and I wouldn't really call that a classic looking at it objectively.

Still, if I was being entirely subjective, let me tell you which matches would be considered classics in my eyes, just to give you the level of difference:


1997:
vs. Bret Hart Summerslam- ****1/2 (Old old rating, need to re-watch it, and haven't seen their ONO or have no recollection of it)
vs. HBK BB97- *****

1998:
vs. Kane WM14- ****
vs. Austin Summerslam 98- ***3/4(this would be there just due to how big the match was in my childhood and looking back completely subjective, it's one of my favorite matches of all time)
vs. Mankind (****... this is a classic for obvious reasons. Definitely not it's technicality, and HHH/Foley's was better in that department, but just how epic and remembered the match is, plus the fact it wasn't terrible by any means makes it a classic)

1999:
vs. Austin FL99- ****

2001:
vs. HHH WM17 (best of their matches imho)- ****
vs. Austin JD01

2002:
vs. Jeff Hardy Raw Ladder Match- ***3/4
vs. Flair WM18- ***3/4
vs. Lesnar Unforgiven 2000- ****
vs. Angle SD 02- ****1/4 (need to re-watch)
vs. Lesnar NM03- ****3/4

2003:
vs. Cena Vengeance 03- ****
vs. Angle SD for WWE Title- ****3/4

2005:
vs. Orton WM21- ****1/4
vs. Orton Summerslam- ****
vs. Orton SD- ***3/4
vs. Ortons Casket Match- ***3/4
vs. Orton HIAC- ****1/4

2006:
vs. Angle NWO06- ****3/4
vs. Angle SD after NWO- ****1/4

2007:
vs. Batista WM23- ****1/2
vs. Batista Backlash LMS- ****
vs. Batista Cage SD- ***3/4
vs. Batista Cyber Sunday- ****1/4
vs. Batista HIAC- ****1/4

2008:
vs. Edge WM24- ****1/4
vs. Edge Backlash- ****
vs. Edge SS08- ****3/4
vs. Big Show NM- ***3/4
vs. Big Show CS- ****1/4 (Let's swap this to the subjective side)

2009:
vs. HBK WM25- *****

2010:
vs. HBK WM26- ****1/2

And that's pretty much my completely subjective list. This isn't even all my favorite Taker matches, but if I were to just take my personal enjoyment into account, these are classics in my mind. If I actually watch the matches and think about things, what went wrong, what looked odd, etc. etc., well... it lowers me down to the matches I have. Even just ignoring the star ratings and looking at the list of matches, I'd say all the ones I put in my first list are fair to call classics in some regard (even Taker/Show as a clash of goliaths). 

But yeah, I was being as objective as possible with that first list, but as Razor pretty much pointed out, there's always going to be some level of subjectivity. That subjectivity that will make you have more HHH matches on the list than me and less Taker matches. I don't honestly think it's possible to be primarily objective, even when you try to be when it comes to something you've invested a lot of time into. I think the best objective list would be to have someone who has never watched or heard of wrestling or any of it's stars, watch each of the best matches of these guys and put a list of their own, with no prior knowledge or even a small bias of someone else being put in their head.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

The Rock's great matches? Lists - Ratings.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

BUBZ said:


> Surprised no one has done an Austin list yet.
> 
> *waits patiently for an Austin list*


Austin/Vega, In Your House 8, ******
Austin/Hart, Survivor Series 1996, *****3/4*
Austin/Hart, WrestleMania 13, *******
Canadian Stampede Tag Match, In Your House 16, *****1/2*
Austin/Dude Love, Over the Edge 1998, *****1/2*
Austin & Michaels/Hart & Bulldog, RAW 26/5/97, *****1/2*
Austin/Rock, WrestleMania 15, ******
Austin/Triple H, No Mercy 1999, *****1/4*
Austin/Triple H, No Way Out 2001, *****3/4*
Austin/Rock, WrestleMania 17, *****1/4*
Power Trip/Benoit & Jericho, RAW 21/5/01 *****3/4*
Austin/Benoit, Smackdown! 31/5/01, *****1/2*
Austin/Angle, SummerSlam 2001, *****3/4*
Team Alliance vs. Team WWF, Survivor Series 2001, ******
Austin/Rock, WrestleMania 19, *****1/2*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock's greatest matches:

Vs Austin WM 19 - ****1/2
Vs Austin WM 17 - ****
Vs Undertaker Vs Angle Vengeance 02 - *****
Vs HHH Backlash 00 - ****1/4
Vs HHH Judgment Day 00 - ****1/2
Vs Undertaker NWO 02 - ****1/4
Vs Lesnar SS 02 - ****1/4
Vs Benoit Fully Loaded 00 - ****
Vs Jericho RR 02 - ****
Vs Jericho No Mercy 01 - ****


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock's Top 5:

1) vs. Austin WM17- *****
2) vs. HHH JD00- ****1/2
3) vs. Jericho NM01- ****1/2
4) vs. Austin WM19- ****1/2
5) vs. Jericho RR02- ****1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Obis said:


> But yeah, I was being as objective as possible with that first list, but as Razor pretty much pointed out, there's always going to be some level of subjectivity. That subjectivity that will make you have more HHH matches on the list than me and less Taker matches. I don't honestly think it's possible to be primarily objective, even when you try to be when it comes to something you've invested a lot of time into. I think the best objective list would be to have someone who has never watched or heard of wrestling or any of it's stars, watch each of the best matches of these guys and put a list of their own, with no prior knowledge or even a small bias of someone else being put in their head.


Still reads more like a list of your favorite/greatest Taker matches than classic matches though. There's no way you can have HBK/Taker, Orton/Taker and Show/Taker on the same level because they absolutely aren't. It's a classic match for a reason. Lumping whatever match is your favorite in there shouldn't count because the threshold is and should be that high. It's not impossible if you stop being a mark to put it bluntly lol. ***1/2 matches are not classic matches unless it's a special case like Rock/Hogan where the actual ring work blows but everything else is what makes the match so special. I really don't see how you can put half of the stuff you put on that list. Taker has a shitload of good/great/amazing/unbelievable matches as does HHH, same for Austin, HBK and the list goes on. Still doesn't make them classics though.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Lesnar is crazy..he could have broke his neck.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

How would you concisely define a classic match? A legendary match, or what?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Still reads more like a list of your favorite/greatest Taker matches than classic matches though. There's no way you can have HBK/Taker, Orton/Taker and Show/Taker on the same level because they absolutely aren't. It's a classic match for a reason. Lumping whatever match is your favorite in there shouldn't count because the threshold is and should be that high. It's not impossible if you stop being a mark to put it bluntly lol. ***1/2 matches are not classic matches unless it's a special case like Rock/Hogan where the actual ring work blows but everything else is what makes the match so special. I really don't see how you can put half of the stuff you put on that list. Taker has a shitload of good/great/amazing/unbelievable matches as does HHH, same for Austin, HBK and the list goes on. Still doesn't make them classics though.


Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on most of this talk. At the end of the day it comes down to opinion and how you interpret things. You'll interpret things based on whether you like or dislike someone whether you realize it or not. And ***1/2 matches being classics... well from a personal standpoint it could be if there's something you really enjoyed about the match or things that stick out about it. However I do agree with you when looking at it objectively that unless there's something about a ***1/2 match that makes it a spectacle, it can be considered a classic. 

But you basically telling me stuff on my list isn't correct (unless I'm misinterpreting your words) is like me telling you it's a fact Taker/HHH's matches aren't classics. I don't see them as such for a number of objective reasons, but I don't think it's fair to see you putting it on there yourself isn't for objective reasons. If someone wants to put Khali/Show from 2009 (or was it 2008?) as a classic for nothing more than it being the two tallest superstars in wrestling the last 15 years going at it and it being a sight to behold, then who am I to tell them they're wrong? I certainly won't agree with it, but hey, at least he gave a reason.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

@greenday

It is tough because you have to draw the line between subjectively loving something and objectively putting it in its place amongst others deemed to be of the same calibre. It's hard but as is the case for most people concerning 5* matches, I think the same applies to classics. You just _feel_ it. That's why I'll never agree on something akin to Show/Taker being a classic match. It can't be. That means it joins the ranks of Taker/HBK, Austin/Rock, Flair/Steamboat etc etc. Not a fucking chance lol. A classic match, to me, is the absolute best of the best and it gets that prestige because it personifies and epitomizes why we watch this shit through what happens in the ring alone or the intangibles surrounding the ring work itself such as the story, the spectacle and the likes. Maybe that's just me, I don't know. But I'd like to think that there is a higher standard for most out there than what seems to be the case for that particular list of Taker matches. Sorry Obis lol.

@Obis

It doesn't always come down to whether somebody you like is in the match. I don't see why it has to be that way and it certainly isn't for me. I'm not saying I'm immune to overrating those I mark for from time to time but that still doesn't mean I can't be objective. I'm not telling you your list is incorrect, I'm telling you it's wrong. :hmm: I'm saying that I don't see how half the stuff on there actually belongs there.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

robertdeniro said:


> Lesnar is crazy..he could have broke his neck.


So many awesome moments/visuals in that match. That was one of them. Also marked for Lesnar picking the referee up by the belt with one hand.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Match is legit fucking crazy lol. Still haven't got bored of it and I've watched it a bazillion times.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I think only time can tell in the case of classic matches. If it's easily forgotten, was it ever really a classic? Some matches are remembered for being really, ridiculously good; some are remembered for being cornerstone moments and a lot are often a combination of the two.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> @Obis
> 
> It doesn't always come down to whether somebody you like is in the match. I don't see why it has to be that way and it certainly isn't for me. *I'm not saying I'm immune to overrating those I mark for from time to time* but that still doesn't mean I can't be objective. I'm not telling you your list is incorrect, I'm telling you it's wrong. :hmm: I'm saying that I don't see how half the stuff on there actually belongs there.


Bold part is exactly my point. You're not, and while I'm not saying you can't be objective, you're not completely objective and that's my whole point. Telling me I'm wrong is wrong, but if you don't agree or don't understand, then so be it. 

As far as Taker/Show goes, I have it as high as I do because to me, that's how a big man vs big man match is worked at it's best. It told a simple story... basically Taker had to avenge his loss to Show the month prior, and would come out of the box even harder than he did at No Mercy. He came at Show with everything and Show, due to his size, had the upper hand physically and with his defeat over Taker at No Mercy, even had the edge mentally to some degree. The match reminded me of Taker/Batista WM, not quite as good, but in the intensity and action of it just being super fun to watch. That was a battle of super heavyweights as well and this one is just like that. Taker's win also kept Show looking strong, but showed Taker could get the job done.

So when I initially put it as a classic, those were my thoughts. Though I'll admit when you do put it up there in the same category as Taker/HBK (classic, not 5 stars), then it does seem really off. But it was a fantastic match and I still stand on that.





> I think only time can tell in the case of classic matches. If it's easily forgotten, was it ever really a classic? Some matches are remembered for being really, ridiculously good; some are remembered for being cornerstone moments and a lot are often a combination of the two.


This is an interesting definition, though it makes the term "forgotten classic" an oxymoron. Benoit/Angle isn't talked about all the time, and I'd even bet some forget about it until it's brought up again, but plenty have it at *****, including myself.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Obis said:


> So when I initially put it as a classic, those were my thoughts. Though I'll admit when you do put it up there in the same category as Taker/HBK (classic, not 5 stars), then it does seem really off. But it was a fantastic match and I still stand on that.


So now it's a fantastic match but not a classic right? I think you just proved my point here lol.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Starbuck and Obis get on like a house on fire.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> So now it's a fantastic match but not a classic right? I think you just proved my point here lol.


Were you only making a point about that match? If so, then yeah, I said it wasn't a classic on my second post (or third post). :cool2


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Obis said:


> This is an interesting definition, though it makes the term "forgotten classic" an oxymoron. Benoit/Angle isn't talked about all the time, and I'd even bet some forget about it until it's brought up again, but plenty have it at *****, including myself.


On the topic of ridiculously good matches, I have a hard time believing most would forget Angle/Benoit. A match may not be constantly talked about but it doesn't mean it is forgotten. 

Yeah, the problem with that definition I gave is that it's much easier to forget a match that wasn't fundamental to the story of wrestling. No one is forgetting Rock/Cena, but something like Punk/Bryan at OTL coming up, if they don't pull some crazy ten star bullshit out I can see it fading within a few years.

If you're purely looking for good, fun matches to watch, I guess there'd be a plethora of options in that sense. But maybe the true classics are those that made feuds legendary, created mega stars and what have you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wish I could forget Rock/Cena. Only remember it because of how bad everything was about it; god awful lengthy build, boring and mostly shitty match, no consequences to the outcome. Plus 2 guys I don't care for .


----------



## Warren Zevon (Dec 15, 2011)

I've noticed people are doing top 5s, how about your top 5 matches by your favorite in-ring talents, based solely on the ring work? All matches must involve the same wrestler in one form or another.

Dean Malenko - 

Vs. Chris Benoit - Spring Stampede 1997 *******






This is far and away my favorite match from both Dean Malenko and Chris Benoit. The tests of strength, the face offs... The brilliant fluidity in sequences that only Malenko can provide and the intensity that you'll only see from Benoit, everything came together perfectly. The ending is weird, but it works in a strange way. Neither Malenko nor Benoit should have beaten the other clean here.

Vs. Chris Benoit - Hog Wild 1996 *****1/2*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz3m3_wcw-chris-benoit-vs-dean-malenko_sport

A real whopper of a match, nearly 30 minutes long. The two greatest in-ring talents in the world putting on a clinic in front of a horrible crowd. I'm basing my star ratings completely off of the in-ring performances though, and not including big match feel or crowd presence. The only real downside to this match is that they started repeating moves near the end. 

Vs. Ultimo Dragon - Starrcade 1996 Cruiserweight Title/J Crown Unification Match *****3/4*






Great, great match. Easily my favorite WCW cruiserweight division match aside from the Malenko/Benoit matchups. Great counters and a lot more flashy than the Benoit matchups, as somebody of Ultimo Dragon's size is able to twist his body around more. 

Vs. Rey Mysterio, Jr. - Halloween Havoc 1996 *****1/4*






Awesome match with Mysterio in his prime. The Malenko/Mysterio feud in 1996 put on so many great matches, and this one lives up to the others. Some great high flying from Rey mixed in with technical sequences and awesome power moves from Malenko. Such a great finish to the match as well.

Vs. Eddie Guerrero - ECW 8/26/1995 2 Out of 3 Falls *******






IMO the best 2 out of 3 falls match of all time. Eddie Guerrero had an amazing intensity about him and he was definitely up there with wrestling ability. The back and forths, the energy and the submission/pin sequences are really captivating in this match. The ending was so fitting for their farewell match, and I would put this as Eddie's best in-ring work.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Metallica's "The Memory Remains" is kept intact on WM 28's home release. My reaction to this:










- Vic


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

robertdeniro said:


> Lesnar is crazy..he could have broke his neck.


And it proves Cena didnt pull the top rope down as dirtsheets claimed, Lesnar overshot this and thats why he fell out the ring


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

LOL reports actually "reported" that Cena pulled the ropes? Lesnar was simply off the chain in that match.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> LOL reports actually "reported" that Cena pulled the ropes? Lesnar was simply off the chain in that match.


Yes dirtsheets said that Lesnar was angry Cena pulled the top rope down on purpose but looking at that gif you can clearly see Lesnar overshot and tumbled out the ring, so again dirtsheets talking out their asses by making stuff up to get hits.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I watched the 2nd half of "Smackdown" last night Afterwards, I got to thinking about it... Not finalized, but I am slowly working my way away from being a WWE fan at all.

Why?! Few reasons.

1] They actually have Cena who is (IMO) still the active "face" of the company, in a match at their next PPV against a man I have no interest in seeing wrestle.

2] At the same PPV, the main belt of their "flagship" show will be defended by a great wrestler (both in ROH or WWE) against a man who lost the other WWE show's main belt in less than a minute against a man who has no business ever holding it at what the company sometimes calls the "biggest show of them all". (He also, that I recall, had previously never won a HW belt by pinning someone in a main 1-on-1 match.)

3] They go from a great female Champion, to someone who will leave the company in under a month, to a Champ who has no business being in singles matches at all, let alone for the belt.

These are just the reasons that come to mind at the moment.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

TJChurch said:


> I watched the 2nd half of "Smackdown" last night Afterwards, I got to thinking about it... Not finalized, but I am slowly working my way away from being a WWE fan at all.
> 
> Why?! Few reasons.
> 
> ...


So you think Punk is a great wrestler but you don't like Bryan?
Tell me more about your awesome opinion.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

RevolverSnake said:


> So you think Punk is a great wrestler but you don't like Bryan?
> Tell me more about your awesome opinion.


Bryan's fine, but they have made Daniel look like a loser, & Beat The Clock is no way to choose a contender.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

TJChurch said:


> Bryan's fine, but they have made Daniel look like a loser, & Beat The Clock is no way to choose a contender.


Why not?


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

From a storytelling aspect I understand his point. Why have someone who has just lost the WHC, compete for the WWE Championship?

As for whos better, its subjective.

Some Ratings - 

*Summerslam 1992:*

Bushwhackers w/Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs Nasty Boys w/The Mountie - **
Legion of Doom vs Ted Dibiase & IRS - ***
Nailz v Virgil - *
HBK v Rick Martel - ***
Natural Disasters v Beverly Brothers - *
Tito Santana v Papa Shango - 1/2*
Crush v Repo Man - *
Warrior v Savage - ****
Taker v Kamala - *
Bret v Bulldog - *****


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

TGO™ said:


> Why not?


For starters,...If Wrestler X has an easy opponent, & Wrestler Y is facing a future HOFer, guess which one will win their match faster?


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

booned said:


> From a storytelling aspect I understand his point. Why have someone who has just lost the WHC, compete for the WWE Championship?


I appreciate that you agree with me. However, my problem has nothing to do with the fact he recently lost the other (which I didn't like), & more to do with to-whom & how-quickly. Someone who lose that quickly to that guy in a Title match at their big one should basically drop to the proverbial bottom rung.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> I appreciate that you agree with me. However, my problem has nothing to do with the fact he recently lost the other (which I didn't like), & more to do with to-whom & how-quickly. Someone who lose that quickly to that guy in a Title match at their big one should basically drop to the proverbial bottom rung.


I dont think that really matters if they use it to develop a feud (which they did). 

Although I agree with you. WWE made a mistake with timing and booking as usual.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

booned said:


> I dont think that really matters if they use it to develop a feud (which they did).
> 
> Although I agree with you. WWE made a mistake with timing and booking as usual.


1] Mistake? Yes, they did.

2] Develop feud? I don't think they did, nor do they need to. Anyone that has a belt should, for that reason, be a focal point & have a proverbial target somewhere on their anatomy.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

TJChurch said:


> 1] Mistake? Yes, they did.
> 
> 2] Develop feud? I don't think they did, nor do they need to. Anyone that has a belt should, for that reason, be a focal point & have a proverbial target somewhere on their anatomy.


Just so I'm clear, are you saying that Sheamus beating Bryan in 18seconds didn't develop their feud? The whole second month of the feud was based around Bryan dumping AJ blaming her for the quick loss, Sheamus taunting Bryan over the loss and Bryan wanting to prove him and everyone wrong at Extreme Rules by beating him twice. They then had a MOTY candidate (IMO) with Bryan taking Sheamus to the limit. Without the 18 second loss there was no basis for the rematch and if they had continued the feud it would have been as uneventful and boring as the road to wrestlemania between the two was.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Beat the Clock really isn't the way to go get a #1 Contender. They want to give off the vibe that they want to win as quickly as possible yet have to do meaningless stalls to go the time booked. Then they have guys like Jericho who fucked up their finish and actually beat the clock when he wasn't supposed to. Then they have to have the guy they want as the #1 contender win in two minutes and make the #1 contender match seem worthless and throwaway. Like "#1 Contder for PRESTIGIOUS WWE Championship" is just another shitty segment on Raw instead of meaning something. 

Vince got mad because Jericho screwed the finish, but it's such a shitty concept he should be blaming whoever came up with it years ago. I really hope Beat the Clock never shows up again. Or if it does it shouldn't be for a World Title #1 contender thingy.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

The thing with the Beat the Clock is the times need to get progressively lower throughout the night, they started way too short at 4 and a half minutes and some of the match ups were just wrong; Kane v Khali and Lawler being involved. If done right I think it can be a good way to set up a challenger for the title but unfortunately this week's really wasn't executed well at all, but on the plus side it did set up Bryan v Punk which should be a great match at OTL.

I've just been watching some old Eddie Guerrero matches from his Viva La Raza DVD and my favourite match so far was the one against Rey Mysterio on Nitro, they just had a really great chemistry together, what are people's favourite match between the two? personally I don't think Halloween Havoc can be touched, that match was just insane and an example of cruiserweight wrestling at it's finest


----------



## Here To There (Apr 18, 2012)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Why did HHH go over Austin before his WM 17 match with The Rock?


Trade off. Austin puts over HHH, Rock puts him over. Besides, the way it happened they really put each other over. They knocked each other out and HHH just happened to fall on top of Austin and not vice versa. I think they were put over as equals, which was good for HHH as he was gonna face Taker at Mania.


----------



## Contrarian (Apr 21, 2012)

Here To There said:


> Trade off. Austin puts over HHH, Rock puts him over. Besides, the way it happened they really put each other over. They knocked each other out and HHH just happened to fall on top of Austin and not vice versa. I think they were put over as equals, which was good for HHH as he was gonna face Taker at Mania.


Nah... it was for Two man power trip.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Contrarian said:


> Nah... it was for Two man power trip.


This. I think Austin/HHH was suppose to be the major title feud post 2 man power trip, but the injury happened.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Triple H being in Floyd Mayweather's entourage tonight was awesome.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Anyone who also bought the new Edge Bluray and watched the off-air *segment from SD Edge Appreciation Night*? Really cool segment and good that WWE put it on the Bluray. Really recommended.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Kurt 'Olympic Gold said:


> Anyone who also bought the new Edge Bluray and watched the off-air *segment from SD Edge Appreciation Night*? Really cool segment and good that WWE put it on the Bluray. Really recommended.


No  I didn't buy the blu-ray because I don't own a blu-ray player but I've been looking for a place to watch this for the longest time. If anyone would care to help me out...


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Ownage™ said:


> Triple H being in Floyd Mayweather's entourage tonight was awesome.


Totally...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlWJQXMl9oE


----------



## Here To There (Apr 18, 2012)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> This. I think Austin/HHH was suppose to be the major title feud post 2 man power trip, but the injury happened.


True, but they probably would have never fought until WM 18. Even without the injury, I always thought the original plan was to have HHH win the Rumble and face a heel Austin, which was the actual plan until Austin refused to put him over, so we got HHH/Jericho instead.


----------



## ben_fletch (Dec 13, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> No  I didn't buy the blu-ray because I don't own a blu-ray player but I've been looking for a place to watch this for the longest time. If anyone would care to help me out...


make an account on XWT, it will be on there.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

booned said:


> Some Ratings -
> 
> *Summerslam 1992:*
> 
> Warrior v Savage - ****


Not as good as their WM7 match but still damn good.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Savage vs. Warrior @ WM 7 - ****1/4
Savage vs. Warrior @ SS92 - ***1/2

Their match at Wrestlemania was another class, I personally think, but the Summerslam match is still fun to watch by all means. It might just be how spectacular Wrestlemania is in general, but in terms of pure entertainment value their Summerslam match doesn't really stand up in comparison.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never seen their SS match. Not as high on their WM match as some though. ***3/4 max.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Summerslam match is fun Cal. I just watched it a few days ago for the first time in like a decade. Not as good as WM but a solid match. Savage and Warrior had fantastic chemistry IMHO. I saw a house show back in the day on a Super Bowl Sunday and the main event was Savage/Warrior in a cage and it was great. Anyone who could get a decent match out of Warrior is amazing. I admit Im a Savage mark but these were some of Randy's better matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll watch it one day lol. Need to concentrate on matches from 2000-2009 for now though (and non WWF/E for the most part) . I don't want to leave it too late and have to watch millions of matches in a month to get a top 100 list together and be disappointed with it like with WCW.

Watched MITB 2011 the other day. Still love the event. SD MITB is great, Raw MITB isn't that good, but its a car crash type match that I don't want to turn away from lol. Plus lots of ladders keep breaking and people botch so it really IS like a car crash lol. Henry/Show is super fun. Orton/Christian is good, but one of their weaker matches (which says a lot about their series lol). Punk/Cena is still tremendous.


----------



## N-Zone (Sep 27, 2006)

Watched The Rock & Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero & Chris Benoit from Smackdown in July 2002 earlier, from the Smackdown's Most Memorable Matches DVD that I picked up for a £1.

It's a really fun tag match and a great TV main event. Cole & Tazz are really good on commentary and the crowd is hot also. The ending of Rock (the Undisputed champ) tapping out clean to Benoit (the IC champ) was surprising too, as was Hogan attacking Lesnar after the match (Lesnar had walked down to watch Rock squirm in the Crossface). Probably give it ***1/4 - ***1/2.


----------



## Here To There (Apr 18, 2012)

RevolverSnake said:


> So you think Punk is a great wrestler but you don't like Bryan?
> Tell me more about your awesome opinion.


To each his own, but there's not a rule saying you gotta like both. I do, but obviously others do not.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just finished watching the 1st disc of the Viva La Raza Eddie set, some really great matches on it from WCW, the only thing I was disappointed about was that the Mysterio match was the one from Nitro a few weeks after Halloween Havoc and not the Havoc match itself.

My favourite match from the disc was probably the one against Shinjiro Otani from Starrcade 95, I'd never seen it before and it was a really great little match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie's first set already has the HH match with Rey on it, so it was nice that they didn't do a repeat, especially since that match is already on a bunch of sets .


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*Survivor Series 2011*

*United States Championship*: Dolph Ziggler vs. John Morrison - ***1/4

*Divas Championship*: Beth Phoenix vs. Eve - **

*Traditional 5-on-5 Survivor Series Elimination Match*: Team Orton vs. Team Barrett - ***

*World Heavyweight Championship*: Mark Henry vs. The Big Show - **3/4

*WWE Championship*: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk - ****

The Rock & John Cena vs. Awesome Truth - **3/4


This was a solid event. Ziggler/Morrison was a good opener, Beth/Eve had an awesome finish, 5-on-5 was killed by the awkwardness of Sin Cara's injury and never quite recovered, but was still watchable enough. I loved Kofi's ring attire, which was his logo but with the color and design of the stay puft marshmallow man. A nice NY reference. 

Henry/Big Show is not as good as the Vengeance match, but still one of the better big man matches. Considering that the two competitors have a combined age of 80 years and combined weight of almost 900 pounds, it's still an impressive achievement. Big Show's top rope elbow is amazing. Had this been a nodq match, the match could have continued after the lowblow, attempt at the chair shot, knockout, and Show's retribution, and we might had a good finish to a blowoff.

I choose to look at this match as the last in the series. After all, it began with chair on the foot, and ended that way. That their last match was the 5 1/2 minute chairs match, that ended flatly with a KO, was a huge disappointment.

Del Rio/Punk was just a flawless match. There's really nothing negative to comment on. No silly stips, no reliance on interference. I love how they just went out and wrestled. It was very back and forth, and the match had a great finishing stretch. It was awesome how Punk hit a bit move, went for a pin, and when Del Rio kicked out, Punk caught him in the anaconda vice. It was just a smart, entertaining match with a great end. Was it just me, or was Del Rio working on both of Punk's arms, or did I just lose track? Because there was a nice spot when Punk was going for the bulldog, but then switched sides, and I thought it might have been because he didn't want to do it with the injured arm, but I wasn't sure which that was.

I never realized that in the buildup, Punk was saying that he wanted to win the WWE Title to bring back its prestige. In the buildup and the extra on the DVD, he actually says it's been passed around like a hot potato, he's going to restore its meaning, and he's going to be a fighting champion.

I guess they had a long run planned, since Punk has defended against ADR, Miz and ADR in the TLC match, Ziggler, Elimination Chamber, Jericho twice, Henry thrice, and he's been champion since November. Mission accomplished, because the title feels important, and it'll feel really important when someone beats him.

Rock/Cena vs. Awesome Truth is just...bland. I know it was special, but to me, it just didn't feel special. There was nothing about the match other than who Cena's partner was that felt at all important. Rock looks and performs amazingly. I like how in the first minute or so, they let him hit huge armdrags, that funny pin, etc, to really establish that there is no rust. And there is none. He could have been wrestling this entire time.

But the match is so standard. Cena gets beat down forever, Rock gets the hot tag, fights off Miz, spinebuster, people's elbow, done. Aside from the return of The Rock, the quality of this match was for RAW. They could have done this at No Way Out or hell, the RAW before WM. Not the main event of Survivor Series.


Still, a solid event with no bad matches to speak of.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I'll watch it one day lol. Need to concentrate on matches from 2000-2009 for now though (and non WWF/E for the most part) . I don't want to leave it too late and have to watch millions of matches in a month to get a top 100 list together and be disappointed with it like with WCW.
> 
> Watched *MITB 2001* the other day. Still love the event. SD MITB is great, Raw MITB isn't that good, but its a car crash type match that I don't want to turn away from lol. Plus lots of ladders keep breaking and people botch so it really IS like a car crash lol. Henry/Show is super fun. Orton/Christian is good, but one of their weaker matches (which says a lot about their series lol). Punk/Cena is still tremendous.


That mindfucked me lol.

I remember really marking for Miz's fake knee injury and him hobbling out afterwards. Because as soon as it happened and he got carried out I thought shit, what if he was booked to win it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Miz hobbling out and climbing the ladder made me feel just like I did when Cena retuned at the 08 RR; disappointed. Luckily Miz didn't win. Unfortunately Cena did .

Also, I'm still amazed at most of the winners at MITB. Daniel Bryan won the SD MITB, Christian won the WHC and Punk won the WWE Title :mark:. Plus Henry solidified himself as a monster heel. Just a shame Del Rio won the Raw MITB, though looking back at who was in it... there weren't many good choices. Rey would have been my personal pick but I don't think he SHOULD have won it even if I would have preferred him over Del Rio like, 100000000 times.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I don't see MITB as worthy of it so own PPV; Make it a yearly match at some event, WM or not, but not its own PPV.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I do agree it should be at an event and not one itself but last year's was well worth having it's own show.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Brye said:


> I do agree it should be at an event and not one itself but last year's was well worth having it's own show.


Then we "break even"... Since I don't feel it worthy of its own show, I can't recall having ever ordered one.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Brye said:


> I do agree it should be at an event and not one itself but last year's was well worth having it's own show.


If I were WWE, I would just book one Money in the Bank Ladder match at the TLC PPV instead of basing a PPV around Money in the Bank Ladder match. The match would fit with the TLC theme. WWE only needs one ladder match PPV theme instead of two.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> If I were WWE, I would just book one Money in the Bank Ladder match at the TLC PPV instead of basing a PPV around Money in the Bank Ladder match. The match would fit with the TLC theme. WWE only needs one ladder match PPV theme instead of two.


Maybe I could get with that... But I feel it's kind of like "Night Of Champions", where not all matches are necessarily Title matches & not all Titles are on the line... It seems they save the T/L/C matches at that PPV for the Titles, so I'd feel it was a bit wasting to also have a Title shot on the line in such a match.


----------



## morris3333 (Feb 13, 2006)

Sometimes, rivalries become so intense, they cannot be contained within the ring and cannot be contested by the usual rules. For matches that spill outside the ring, there are Falls Count Anywhere Matches. Hosted by the Hardcore Legend, Mick Foley, this collection highlights more than 30 years of lawless bouts from WWE, NWA, WCW, and ECW, and features some of the most brutal in-ring performers of all time, including Sgt. Slaughter, Sting, Macho Man. Randy Savage, the Road Warriors, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Bret 'Hit Man' Hart, Triple H, The Rock, Kane, Big Show, Ric Flair, Randy Orton, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, and more. 

from : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007I1Q4PY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

WWE: Falls Count Anywhere: The Greatest Street Fights and other Out of Control Matches will released on June 26, 2012.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

So I finally watched the Jericho/Benoit vs. Austin/Triple H tag match. At least I think it's THAT tag match. The one where Triple H tears his quad but acts like a total badass and keeps going.

It was as awesome as I had hoped for. Within 4 minutes the crowd was at a fever pitch and that was just the opening segment of the match. The isolation on Benoit was amazing and the anticipation that was built up for the Jericho tag was incredible. The crowd was electric the whole time and you knew from the opening bell that it was going to be great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2005*

_Edge vs Shawn Michaels_

As of right now, this is a dream match to many, many people. I BELIEVE this is the first time that they ever locked up, and to be honest, I never knew what to think of this match. I believe that the two Street fight matches on raw are superior to this match, however I believe that this is a very solid encounter between two great workers. What I loved about this match was the sweet chin music reversal into the electric chair drop, and the few good false finishes it had. The climax of the match was very good and an indication of the great things to come between these two.

What I didn't like about this match was the slow build. It seemed to me that whenever this match began to gain momentum, we inevitably ended up back in a chinlock. I didn't know that Edge magically morphed into Randy Orton overnight? Sometimes a slow build can be awesome, but this match had a build that didn't really pay off. Overall this was a match with a great climax, good false finishes, and an overall good watch, just with a few flaws. Definitely worth a watch, and the absolute right choice for an opener.

**** 1/4*

_Casket Match: Undertaker vs Heidenreich_

After their match at Survivor Series (Which I gave *** 1/4 I do believe) I was expecting a great gimmick match between these two. What we got however wasn't very great, due to one simple fact; Heidenreich fucking sucked in the ring. The fact that Undertaker was able to drag a great match out of him a few months prior is a MIRACLE, and as a matter of fact I believe that Mark Calloway should be given a fucking medal for achieving such a feat. This match was very sloppy and featured pointless run ins by both Gene Snitsky and Kane that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. The story was very cookie cutter (Heidenreich being afraid of caskets) and this match looked like it belonged in the mid 90s.

That being said, this match is a guilty pleasure of mine. These Undertaker casket matches may not be great in terms of star ratings, but if you can say you don't have a blast watching them, I truly do believe you don't love the WWE. Yes, the story was corny, and YES the run ins made no sense, but when Kane popped out of the Casket to help his brother I marked the fuck out. Undertaker was trying his best out there, but Heidenreich simply didn't cooperate. Still, a ton of fun, and I'd definitely watch again for that very reason. Actually DECENT.

****

_WWE Championship: JBL vs The Big Show vs Kurt Angle_

This has to be one of the most surprisingly good matches that I've ever seen in my entire life. This match dosen't look good on paper, but what we got in-ring was mostly JBL and Angle, with a little bit of Big Show on the side. The story here is simple: JBL and Angle are pricks, but the Big Show is so unstoppable that they need to band together to take him out. This match is all over the place with its action, as there are people getting put through announce tables, monitor shots, and chairshots that take place amongst all of this anarchy. Coupled with a great story and some good action, the psychology here works very well, as all three competitors sell extremely well.

To see both JBL's and Kurt Angle's entourages interfere made me laugh a little, as there were literally 7 people who interfered in this match, WTF. This is one time that interference actually works to develop the story even further. To make it even better, JBL weasles his way to retaining the title by capitalizing on Show's work. God JBL was so underrated as a worker in that time period. Just an awesome match with an awesome end spot, a near CLASSIC.

**** 3/4*

_World Title: Triple H vs Randy Orton_

This was the 2nd match out of the 7459 matches that these two would have on PPV. Orton explodes right from the beginning with some swift offense, but in true HHH fashion, Trips decides to slow Orton down and work the knee. The psychology in this match is off the charts and Hunter spends a ton of time working the knee of Orton, to which Orton sells EXTREMELY well. The entire match is based on the fact that while Orton may have the energy advantage, HHH has enough brains to outsmart Orton and retain his title. No matter what Orton tries to do, Hunter always has an answer for it.

This continues until Orton hits his head and is somewhat dazed (the commentators say he has a concussion; Kayfabe) to which Triple H begins to take advantage of even more. This match has SO much of a better pace than their future encounters would have. The tradition Ref bump/Sledgehammer/Pedigree ends this match. HHH just makes this match click, period. I'm not just saying that because he's my all-time favorite, his leg work is just out of this world in this match. Orton's selling should also be applauded, a great match with great psychology.

**** 1/2*

_The Royal Rumble Match_

This is one of my all-time favorite Rumbles, and for good reason; It was the first rumble tha I've ever seen. What I love the most about this Royal Rumble match is simple; the best workers in the match (Mysterio, Guerrero, Benoit, Edge, Benjamin, Etc), were in the ring/dominated for a VAST majority of the match, while scrubs like Kenzo Suzuki, Muhammad Hassan, and Daniel Puder were given maybe one minute of ring time combined. The beatdown on Puder is quite hilarious, as even Hardcore Holly is able to get a reaction out of the fans because of it. At some points in the match we have a revolving set of two-on-two matches that are just awesome, featuring the likes of HBK vs Jericho and Eddie vs Mysterio at the exact same time.

The technical prowess continues until the young guns (Cena and Batista) enter the equation and begin to dominate. This is still awesome however, as the veterans bump for these two like there's no tomorrow. The amount of individual angles being set up by this one match (HHH vs Batista, MITB, Angle vs Shawn) is actually mindblowing. The final four (Cena, Batista, Rey, Edge) couldn't be any better, as we have Cena vs Batista to finish this match off. I'm sure by now you all know the story about Vince coming out and tearing his ACL, and if you haven't heard the story, youtube Vince Mcmahon Royal Rumble 2005...It's worth a good laugh. Batista throws Cena out to end this awesome Rumble that had it all; Drama, excitement, comedy, and best of all, ACTUALLY GOOD WRESTLING. 2012 could learn something from this.

**** 3/4*

_Thoughts_

Well lets see here, we have a solid opener, a fun casket match, two great championship encounters, and a fantastic Rumble match. What more can you ask for ? Nothing on this card was really CLASSIC material whatsoever, but I was never bored with this PPV and I was constantly entertained by the matches, hilarious backstage segments, etc. The WWE did a great job giving us some fresh faces in the main event, as the rumble match helped catapult many younger superstars to the next level. With NOTHING classic about this PPV, but NOTHING bad about it either, I definitely think you should check this show out sometime as it's a good way to pass away 3 hours, and a solid indication of what to expect from the WWE in the year 2005.

Oh yeah...It was a major improvement from NYR as well...

*7.75/10(Nothing classic to take it to 8)*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Degeneration X vs Legacy series:
*
Regular Tag Match - Summerslam - *****

Great start to their feud and a nice long match. Made Ted/Cody look good with their teamwork and the fact that they were smarter than DX most of the match.
*
Submissions Count Anywhere - Breaking Point - ****1/2*

Holy fuck I love this match. Ted and Cody get their revenge on DX. This brawl goes all over the building and you see more of Ted and Cody's divide and conquer strategy. Plus, making HBK tap out isn't something that just happens everyday. Huge fan of this match.

*Hell In A Cell - Hell In A Cell - ***3/4
*
I really liked this match up until the end. Legacy managed to divide and conquer Trips and HBK and lock Trips out of the cell. Really strong beatdown on HBK in the ring while Trips was locked outside. Really think blood could have added to this match, especially since it was a fairly heated feud and they had a cell to utilize. The disappointment came once Trips got back into the match and it turned into a glorified squash. Not saying that Ted and Cody needed the win (they looked strong in all three showings up until the end of this match) but a different ending would've been nice. Still think this is the best HIAC in the history of the HIAC PPV.

It's a damn shame that they didn't do anything with Legacy after this. (N)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

DX/Legacy series was great. Really put over Ted and Cody as a tag team:

SS- ****
BP- ***3/4
HIAC- ***1/4


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I guess I am the only one who thought their Summerslam match sucked for the most part.

My ratings.

Summerslam - **3/4
Breaking Point - ***3/4
Hell in a Cell - ***1/4


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I watched the 30 minute Angle/Benoit submission match from Backlash 2001 last night. I recently picked up that PPV after not seeing it for years. That is the only match I have watched thus far. What does everyone think of it? I'd say it's in the 4-4 1/2 star range but as I have said many times I have never tried to rate matches per se.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*D-Generation X vs. Legacy Series*:

SummerSlam - ***1/4

Submissions Count Anywhere - Breaking Point - ***1/4

Hell in Cell - Hell in a Cell - ***3/4


This was a nice little series. I never loved the first match, I just think it was a good little tag team match. It was probably one of the better tag team matches in years.

The SCA match definitely had a nice "Empire Strikes Back" vibe to it, with the villains dividing and conquering. It kept a great pace, but it really was just a typical '99-'00 brawl, save for the submissions stipulation. The finish was shocking, though.

I personally really liked the HIAC. I loved how Legacy divided and conquered again, this time using the cell. The loved the drama of beating down Michaels while HHH figured out a way into the cell. I also thought it was awesome how much brawled before the match even started. You can never go wrong with that formula because it guarantees people will be invested in the match.

HHH making the save with the boltcutters, taking out Ted (or was it Cody?), and getting their revenge was great, too. This is a fantastic blow-off.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never did think too much to the DX/Legacy feud. Would probably go *** for the first too matches... then not sure for HIAC. Was pretty great how they trapped Shawn in the Cell alone... but once HHH came in to make the save, HBK decided that being destroyed by 2 people inside the cell didn't matter and he'd no sell everything and make a come back too. Didn't sit well with me.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to their Breaking Point match because I didn't really like it that much. To me, it never really got into 2nd gear and it just dragged on and on until it finally ended. I didn't hate the match, but I just didn't like it as much as a lot of other people did. I really liked their SummerSlam and HIAC matches though. I should try to give all 3 of their matches another watch as I haven't seen them in a long time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit I think highly of that series. :side:


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I thought the first & Cell matches were both decent, but the submissions match seemed like a letdown.

That said, I think it would be an improvement to either career rejoin Ted & Cody.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I watched the early elimination chambers recently for the first time ever (02, 03, 05, 06) and loved them. However with the WWE doing 2 every year now, kind of makes them less important watching them, even the earlier ones. Same with HIAC, they were so epic, a brutal gimmick to end a feud but now they are dished out like candy.

I've only seen the HIAC in the DX/Legacy feud. Was a good match, Trips and Shawn were putting them over massively, now look where they are.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Word said:


> I watched the early elimination chambers recently for the first time ever (02, 03, 05, 06) and loved them. However with the WWE doing 2 every year now, kind of makes them less important watching them, even the earlier ones. Same with HIAC, they were so epic, a brutal gimmick to end a feud but now they are dished out like candy.
> 
> I've only seen the HIAC in the DX/Legacy feud. Was a good match, Trips and Shawn were putting them over massively, now look where they are.


1] That's one reason I don't buy a lot of the MITB/Night Of Champs-style PPVs... Then again, feel similarly about "Ladder Match" & other DVD sets, which I do/did buy.

2] Cody finally lost the belt atone of their big PPVs, only to win it right back. As for Ted, I don't know or care where he is; Worst is HHH getting taken away by a guy WWE should have never brought back.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DX/Legacy series was great. For once actual tag teams looked important.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On DX/Legacy...

I thought the Summerslam match was fantastic and was a very nice push for the Legacy team, even in defeat. The Breaking Point match was great as well. Didn't like it quite as much as Summerslam, but still an excellent match and Legacy getting a (relatively) clean win over DX, making Shawn tap out was great as well.

The cell was good... and the best DX tag cell at least, but to me it was way too similar to the Breaking Point match... only in a cell. Because I loved the breaking point match I did like what they did, but it still was a bit boring to watch again. HHH though saved the day this time, and DX beat Legacy, which was the big difference from Breaking Point. I would say out of all the matches, Legacy looked the weakest against DX in the cell, as while they did man-handle Michaels on their own, and played a very smart game of locking HHH out, once HHH got in it's like Legacy was just another tag team to be squashed. I'm not sure they got in any offense once HHH got in.

But besides that, the feud did a great job of putting Legacy over... only thing is it didn't help them once they split up. Cody started back at the bottom but worked his way up to where he is now. As for Ted... poor Ted.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ted. :sad:

I thought that feud as a whole played off Legacy as a really smart tag team.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

favorite tag team matches....aaaaaaaaaaaaand go!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kidman/Rey vs WGTT
Jericho/Benoit vs Austin/Trips
DX vs Legacy - NYR


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> favorite tag team matches....aaaaaaaaaaaaand go!


I would name that famous "Smackdown Six" No Mercy tag, but hell, the only time I watched it was like a year ago and it was two inches across and grainy. I need to actually buy the show, but I do remember quite liking it. They had a few more tag matches on Smackdown which are obviously stellar too.

Bought NYR07 because of the DX/Rated RKO tag match. Again, remember liking that one but it's still in the "to watch" pile.

There was a sort of scramble match in 1999's Summerslam that I quite liked too. They showed the kind of 'young daredevil tag teams' thing that they were pushing the TLC men under. Wait a second, speaking of which, duh:

My favourite tag team match is TLC I, end of post.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anybody know of a Mysterio/Benjamin match from Superstars in '09? It intrigues me quite a bit and I've never seen it. Didn't even think those two faced each other in a singles match before.

My apologies for swaying the conversation. :side:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> favorite tag team matches....aaaaaaaaaaaaand go!


Here's a few:

Briscos/Adonis & Murdoch 12/28/84
Flair & Windham/Midnight Express COTC IV
Hart Foundation/Brain Busters SummerSlam 89
Hart Foundation/Demolition SummerSlam 90
Steamboat & Dustin/The Enforcers COTC XVII
Harts/Steiners Wrestlefest 94
Power Trip/Benoit & Jericho Raw 05/21/01
Rock & Jericho/Austin & Angle SD 11/15/01
Angle & Benoit/Edge Mysterio No Mercy 02
Angle & Benoit/Edge & Mysterio SD 11/07/02
WGTT/Mysterio & Kidman Vengeance 03
Rated RKO/DX New Year's Revolution 07
Taker & Batista/Cena & Michaels NWO 07


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Here's a few:
> 
> Briscos/Adonis & Murdoch 12/28/84
> Flair & Windham/Midnight Express COTC IV
> ...


No love for RnR Vs MX? MX Vs Southern Boys? Clique Tag from 94? Disappointing in you Clique!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> No love for RnR Vs MX? MX Vs Southern Boys? Clique Tag from 94? Disappointing in you Clique!



I said a few. Not them all! 

Also the Steiners/MVC series, Steiners/Nasty Boys and Nasty Boys/Cactus & Sullivan.





Brye said:


> Anybody know of a Mysterio/Benjamin match from Superstars in '09? It intrigues me quite a bit and I've never seen it. Didn't even think those two faced each other in a singles match before.


It was a solid TV match. I like their SD! match from '03 more.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brye said:


> Anybody know of a Mysterio/Benjamin match from Superstars in '09? It intrigues me quite a bit and I've never seen it. Didn't even think those two faced each other in a singles match before.
> 
> My apologies for swaying the conversation. :side:


It's good iirc.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

You want a good WWE Tag match? Few (if any) beat that big Armageddon ladder match that ripped the crap out of Mercury's nose.

On more-current terms, they need to send Layla the way of the Bellas, get another female Champ, & keep Heyman off-camera.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I just rewatched my Unforgiven 2003 DVD that was lying around, and I forgot about how good it was. It was probably my favorite Raw PPV that was only one branded. 

Handicap Tables match for the Tag Titles was a fun way to kick off the show, Test and Steiner had an alright match for what it was worth and what both men usually had, Randy Orton and Shawn Michaels could arguably be MOTN, Kane and McMahon in a LMS match was amazing one of the more forgotten about and underrated feuds out there, Christian / Van Dam / Jericho was again very well done, man I wish the IC title got that much attention right now with that ammount of talent, and Goldberg / HHH was a feel good moment to close off the show with Goldberg winning.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm interested to know what everyone's favourite match is and see you write a review up about it..


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 13*
Rosemont Horizon, Rosemont, Illinois; March 23, 1997
*Submission Match*
Bret 'Hitman' Hart vs. 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin






To start off, watch the promo, it's not as good as the likes of Austin/Rock from Wrestlemania 17 or Shawn Michaels/The Undertaker from Wrestlemania 26, but it's still a pretty good promo video which hypes the match up and it really shows the early signs of the Attitude Era, it gets you pumped for the match..

I will let you know that this Wrestlemania for me is one of the worst Wrestlemania's of all time, there is one simple reason why it isn't actually the worst and that is this match up. This match had a lot of significance in branching out Stone Cold’s character. The program did two things perfectly. It established Stone Cold as someone who would never quit and it also helped turn him face, while turning Bret heel at the same time. One of the best, if not the best double turns in the history of the business.

The story goes a little like this, at WrestleMania XII Bret Hart took some time off, when he returned the New Generation he was comfortable with was slowly becoming the Attitude Era and that did not sit well with Bret at all. After being repeatedly “screwed” by people like Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin as he had mentioned numerous times since returning, Bret continued to complain until the fans got tired of it and began to side with Austin who was rapidly becoming the top face, a star. Bret's frustrations got the better of him causing him to do out of character things such as push commentator Vince McMahon on his ass and an obscenity laced tirade at the end of a live Raw. Bret claimed the WWE and the fans had changed however it was Bret that was changing, it was just brilliant from everyone involved.

The match begins with "The Worlds Most Dangerous Man" Ken Shamrock from the UFC at the time coming down to the ring, he is the special guest referee for this match. He already stated that no one will intimidate him during the submission match. The glass smashed and Stone Cold Steve Austin made his way to the ring, he gets predominantly booed, Bret Hart's music hit and he made his way down to the ring, he was still getting cheers but it is a notably mixed reaction. 

The match was explosive from the off, Austin tackled Bret right off the bat. They brawled on the floor outside and Bret tossed Austin into the ringpost. Bret gets suplex crotched on the guard rail and clotheslined into the crowd. They brawled into the crowd, this was pretty new and fresh for the time and not as trite as it would become later on in the Attitude Era. The Hitman dominated most of the crowd brawl which was out of character for him. Austin then got backdropped down the bleacher stairs. They finally return to the ringside area and Austin reverses an irish whip and Bret flies into the steel steps. Austin double flips off Bret, which would become his trademark and gave him a diving clotheslines from the apron. 

They take turns ramming each other into the ring post. Bret countered a backdrop into a swinging neckbreaker and a driving elbow. Bret began to work the leg and Austin’s bad knee, great selling by Austin through out the match and nice from Bret to focus on an area, a master of this trade. It is funny hearing Vince McMahon long time face complain about Bret on commentary and Jerry Lawler, the awesome heel he was at the time and Bret Hart's long time foe agree with him. Stone Cold countered the legwork and hit the Stone Cold Stunner. Bret kicked his leg out but Austin kept getting up. This is a significant part in the match as this is point where the fans began to side with Austin. 

Bret debuts the ringpost figure four leg lock as Austin writhed in pain but he just will not quit, I remember seeing this and absolutely loving it, despite being a big Austin fan at the time. Bret grabbed the ring bell and a chair. Bret tried to Pillmanize Austin’s leg but he recovered and waffles Bret off the turnbuckles with the chair to a huge ovation, the crowd well and truly backing Stone Cold at the moment. Austin pounded Bret with the chair and hit a slam and a suplex. Austin dropped the middle finger driving elbow and began to stomp at his groin.

Stone Cold continued the Bret move hit parade with a Russian leg sweep. Stone Cold applied an armbar/neck crank submission hold then segued into a Boston Crab, Bret made the ropes however. Austin then went for the Sharpshooter, Bret Hart's own finishing move but Bret countered. Austin sidestepped Bret and tossed him to the floor to a mixed reaction. Bret reversed a whip on the floor and Austin wiped out a cameraman, timekeepers and Jim Ross, "BAH GAWD"! 

Stone Cold is bleeding, big time. Bret Hart tossed Austin into the steps and the ringpost. Bret mercilessly works the cut, genius move from the Hitman. Bret Hart reintroduced the chair at this point and started to work Austin’s bad leg with it. Bret then tried the Sharpshooter and Austin uses the eyes just as Bret did to Austin earlier in the match. Bret started to beat Austin in the corner. Austin countered however by kicking Bret in the mid-section and then began to stump a mud hole in his ass, in the words in the great J.R. Stone Cold then set up and nailed a superplex. Stone Cold used an electrical cord to try to hang Bret from the ropes but Bret clocked him straight in the head with the ring bell to counter it. 

Bret Hart then locked in the Sharpshooter on The Texas Rattlesnake. Austin tried fighting it with blood dripping down his face in an iconic WrestleMania moment. If however you have no recollection of the moment I am talking about, I will be happy to provide you with a picture.









*The iconic Wrestlemania 13 moment, Austin vs. Bret Hart*​
Stone Cold Steve Austin passed out from the pain so special guest referee Ken Shamrock called for the bell. Bret Hart won the match but no one seemed to care, Stone Cold did not quit. Post-match Bret tried to maim Austin but Shamrock wasn't having none of it and stopped him with a belly to back suplex. Bret got in his face but left instead, to a chorus of boos, the crowd had fully turned on the Hitman.

Stone Cold refused help to the back from Shamrock or any other referee for that matter. He stunned a referee and limped out on his own two feet to the fans chanting “Austin”, a significant match in his career, one where he didn't have to win to get put over, a match in which told excellent storytelling, a match where the crowd really made it special, as well as the commentators, hats off to everyone involved in what is my favourite match of all time. 

--

I give this match a resounding 5 stars out of 5 *****.. Outstanding match that helped propel Stone Cold Steve Austin into the stratosphere and become the star of the late 90’s that we all knew he become. A wild brawl that became the blueprint for most of the Attitude Era main events. I still think the best part of this match is how Austin came into the match as heel and Hart came in as face but just by sheer ring work and ring psychology, Bret was the heel and Austin, who never gave up, the face at the conclusion. You can actually feel the crowd turning on Bret midway through the match which is awesome. THIS is how you tell a story in the ring and sadly it seems to becoming somewhat of a lost art.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Not sure if I'm awesome enough to come up with a review but my fav match of all time is probably Savage V Steamboat WM3. Cliche I know but I love it. I can remember being 6 years old watching WM3. Everyone was so excited for Hogan/Andre. As was I but Savage/Steamboat was the show stealer to end all show stealers. Or something. Flair V Sting first Clash of the Champions might be a very close second. Tough call.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

So to the Americans who now have the Mania 28 blu-ray, what are the full extras included?

WWEDVDNEWS.com posted a listing a while back, but they said it wasn't definite. Is it just those that they posted?


----------



## Anguyen92 (Jun 24, 2011)

For me, my favorite match is either E&C/Hardyz Ladder match at No Mercy 1999 or Benoit/Jericho RR 2001 which is also a ladder match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Flair V Sting first Clash of the Champions might be a very close second. Tough call.


Will this one be on the new best of set Dvd?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Will this one be on the new best of set Dvd?


Yep. Listings for the Clash Set:



Spoiler: clash



DISC 1

The Real Story

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
`Nature Boy' Ric Flair vs. Sting
Clash of the Champions - 27th March, 1988

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Lex Luger & Barry Windham
Clash of the Champions - 27th March, 1988

Why Wait a Whole Year?

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Sting & Dusty Rhodes
Clash of the Champions II - 8th June, 1988

Russian Chain Match
Ricky Morton vs. Ivan Koloff
Clash of the Champions III - 7th September, 1988

"I Quit" Match for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
`Nature Boy' Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk
Clash of the Champions IX - 15th November, 1989

Mil Mascaras vs. Cactus Jack Manson
Clash of the Champions X - 6th February, 1990

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Midnight Express vs. Rock & Roll Express
Clash of the Champions XI - 13th June, 1990

DISC 2

To Be The Man, You Gotta Beat The Man

NWA United States Championship Match
`Nature Boy' Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger
Clash of the Champions XII - 5th September, 1990

The Young Pistols & Z-Man vs. The Fabulous Freebirds
Clash of the Champions XV - 12th June, 1991

15-Man Battle Royal
Clash of the Champions XVI - 5th September, 1991

WCW United States Championship Match
Sting vs. `Ravishing' Rick Rude
Clash of the Champions XVII - 19th November, 1991

Other Stars On The Rise

2 out of 3 Falls Match
`Nature Boy' Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs. The Hollywood Blonds
Clash of the Champions XXIII - 17th June, 1993

Brian Pillman vs. "Stunning" Steve Austin
Clash of the Champions XXV - 10th November, 1993

WCW Television Title Match
Lord Steven Regal vs. Dustin Rhodes
Clash of the Champions XXVI - 27th January, 1994

Elimination Tag Team Match
Sting & `Nature Boy' Ric Flair vs. `Ravishing' Rick Rude & Vader
Clash of the Champions XXVI - 27th January, 1994

DISC 3

Here we are Again

Championship Unification Match
Sting vs. `Nature Boy' Ric Flair
Clash of the Champions XXVII - 23rd June, 1994

WCW United States Championship Match
"Stunning" Steve Austin vs. Ricky `The Dragon' Steamboat
Clash of the Champions XXVIII - 24th August, 1994

Hulk Hogan & `Macho Man' Randy Savage vs. `Nature Boy' Ric Flair & The Giant
Clash of the Champions XXXII - 23rd January, 1996

Medusa vs. Bull Nakano
Clash of the Champions XXXIII - 15th August, 1996

Match for the BattleBowl Ring
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Eddie Guerrero
Clash of the Champions XXXIII - 15th August, 1996

I'm gonna watch this

WCW World Tag Team Championship Triple Threat Match
Harlem Heat vs. The Steiner Brothers vs. Sting & Lex Luger
Clash of the Champions XXXIII - 15th August, 1996

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Ultimo Dragon vs. Dean Malenko
Clash of the Champions XXXIV - 21st January, 1997

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero
Clash of the Champions XXXV - 21st August, 1997

Diamond Dallas Page & Lex Luger vs. Scott Hall & `Macho Man' Randy Savage
Clash of the Champions XXXV - 21st August, 1997

35th and Final Clash

BLU-RAY EXTRAS

`Nature Boy' Ric Flair and Barry Windham vs. Midnight Express
Clash of the Champions IV - 7th December, 1988

Sting and Ricky `The Dragon' Steamboat vs. `Ravishing' Rick Rude and Steve Austin
Clash of the Champions XVIII - 21st January, 1992

Thunder Cage Match
Dustin Rhodes & Sting vs. Big Van Vader, Paul Orndorff and Barry Windham
Clash of the Champions XXII - 13th January, 1993


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Cookie Monster said:


> I'm interested to know what everyone's favourite match is and see you write a review up about it..


Already did that:




Spoiler: #1



*The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
WrestleMania XXV
April 5, 2009*

*“Sometimes it is HELL trying to get to HEAVEN”*

One of the biggest crowd reactions live in Reliant Stadium happened when the graphic image of _Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels_ came up on the big screen. This dream match will go down in history as one of the most anticipated matches ever. Fans all over the internet and all over the world demanded to see this match and many times it seemed it would only be a dream. Thank God this match happened.

Taker and especially Shawn went through insurmountable amounts of hell on their road to this moment. Last year, Taker was stripped of the World Title and we all saw maybe a sign to the end of his career when he was banned from the WWE. Shawn went through hell with Chris Jericho and JBL threatening his career and his family both physically and financially. Both legends have suffered and still suffer from nagging career threatening injuries.

Undertaker has never defeated Shawn Michaels in a one on one match. Shawn is 2-0 against Taker, but that doesn't mean Taker hasn’t had "victories" over The Heart Break Kid. It was The Deadman that tossed Shawn over the top rope to win the 2007 Royal Rumble Match after a legendary showdown. It was Taker that caused Shawn’s back injury in their casket match over 10 years ago.

Shawn Michaels is “Mr. WrestleMania.” He says he OWNS WrestleMania and quite frankly he has the resume to back that claim up without question. Undertaker is WrestleMania’s Phenom with 16 wins and zero losses in what everyone knows as THE STREAK.

Shawn says this is a match of lightness versus darkness and through the extraordinary entrances from both legends it feels larger-than-life. 

They masterfully implemented specific elements, or psychology, from their prior encounters into this match, starting with Shawn’s degenerate and defiant attitude towards “the most dangerous entity to ever step foot in a ring.” Shawn’s crotch chop in Taker’s face is like spitting in the face of death. As we know in reality, no matter how much man tries to dodge death in the end he will lose. However, if that man internally believes in his soul that he has ever lasting life through some divine intervention, maybe that is enough for a victory.

The dynamic between Taker and HBK wrestling each other has always been fascinating to me. Taker is much bigger and stronger than Shawn so it makes sense for Taker to dominate a lot in their matches. Shawn will obviously use the hit and run/mind games routine to gain the advantage. HBK does that with his knife edge chops that at first irritate the beast but soon the stinging shots take effect. 

It wouldn’t have been smart if Shawn did not attack Taker's bad knees so when he did I wasn’t surprised. I also thought it was so smart psychologically for HBK to fake a knee injury so he can gain the advantage. Shawn will end The Streak, if he can, at all costs.

Taker and Michaels had me captivated with every move and transition. It was as if they were telling a story for everything they performed. Take for instance the crossface Michaels applied, to some it looked like Shawn accidentally didn’t properly have it on Taker. I saw it differently; Undertaker is well versed in submissions and you can see how he is trying to block and fight out of the move by throwing elbows and trying to roll out of the hold. 

A spot that I jump out of my seat for every time I watch it is the counter sequence midway in the match. Taker catches Shawn flying off the top rope for the Chokeslam but Shawn strikes for Sweet Chin Music, Taker ducks the kick, then Shawn goes for a Figure Four and Taker locks in Hell's Gate! 

The match never really runs at a super fast pace and I think is better for the atmosphere. We get to absorb every second of its greatest. There’s almost an indescribable “epic feel” in the air. The crowd of over 70,000 went absolutely insane for everything presented to us. Every twist and turn got massive reactions. People can say the match outcome was too predictable all they want but the fact of the matter is I haven’t seen so many people on the edge of their seats putting so much passion into a match in a long time. I feel the cameras don't fully capture the actual atmosphere in the stadium.

The crowd was genuinely at a hushed silence in concern for the health of Taker when he almost literally committed a suicide dive. It was a scary watching a near seven foot man torpedo himself head first from God knows how high straight into the floor! Never mind the fact that it is incredible a man his size and age is still so athletically gifted. 

Going back to Shawn’s old antics coming out, this certainly isn’t the first time he’s put a camera man in harm’s way in a match with Taker! I as well as everyone bought the possible count out victory Shawn tried to use to break the streak. He looked so desperate pleading for the ref to count Taker out of the match. It was very intense seeing Taker struggle to make it back into the ring.

The long but breathtaking finishing stretch of counters and near falls from finisher after finisher is some of the most exciting wrestling I’ve ever witnessed. Shawn kicked out of everything Taker gave him including a Chokeslam from Hell, The Last Ride and a Tombstone Piledriver which is unprecedented! 









_Nothing compares to the look on Undertaker’s face after Michaels kicked out of the Tombstone!_

I didn’t have a problem with Shawn willing his body to kick out of Taker’s finishers. He sold everything like near death and never strayed from that. You can see when Shawn did kick out it looked like his body just naturally jumped off the mat. He then looked like an almost lifeless survivor slumped over after being dropped from a flight of stairs. In a match of this magnitude I can accept the extra determination a wrestler may have to keep fighting. I have certainly seen more overdone near falls in a wrestling match but it really does work for this match so well. They used the ‘WWE big match style’ to perfection. It was good on the commentator’s part to say it may have been divine intervention that keeps Shawn in the match.

Another thing I want to touch on is the perfect execution of this match. The DDT counter Shawn delivered half way from the Tombstone position on Taker’s shoulders looked cool. It was a desperate counter and looked as such. Shawn got the immediate advantage and we saw another near fall after Taker kicked out of the Sweet Chin Music for the second time! 

I love the throw down they had with soup bones landing and chops cutting. The big boot Taker used to knock Michaels down is a nice touch looking at the big man showing his dominance over the smaller man.










The finish is excellent with Undertaker catching Michaels from a top rope Moonsault into the Tombstone Piledriver, 17 and 0! What an amazing match! I can truly say this is my favorite match ever and the greatest WrestleMania match of all time. This is the ultimate dream match I NEEDED to see and I am honored to have been in Reliant Stadium to witness it live. 











My two favorite wrestlers Undertaker and Shawn Michaels put it ALL on the line and put so many people on an unbelievable thrill ride for over 30 minutes. This is what wrestling dreams are made of: two of the biggest wrestling legends showcasing an unforgettable all time classic! I could not ask for more as a wrestling fan.​







Spoiler: #1a











*STREAK vs. CAREER**
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels*

_* "If I can't beat you, I have no career!" *_

Defiance is what Shawn Michaels has brought to Undertaker to make this rematch happen. Shawn was told “there are plenty of other guys” he could face at WrestleMania XXVI but Shawn responded almost prophetically, “Not for me.” Last year, _Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels_ needed to happen for the fans but this year I believe it needed to happen for Shawn Michaels. 

Everything Shawn has gone through from Ric Flair’s retirement to the injuries and the obsessions have fatefully built to this final larger-than-life encounter. This time Undertaker's phenomenal 17-0 winning Streak is on the line but so is Shawn Michaels' incredible 25 year career.

The conditions here were ideal: Shawn was on a “relentless pursuit for perfection” and the Undertaker is the only one for him to create that ultimate WrestleMania moment. The only way to win this match is by pin-fall or submission because Shawn wants a definitive winner – no excuses or escapes. 

This match has been called “the most anticipated match in WrestleMania history.” Personally, last year was the most anticipated match of all time for me but anytime it’s _The Deadman vs. The Heartbreak Kid_ the excitement is astronomical. This has to be one of the Top 5 biggest WrestleMania matches of all time.

People said they had the greatest WrestleMania match ever at WrestleMania XXV. I made that statement myself. After their classic performance at WrestleMania XXV I couldn’t have asked for more as a wrestling fan. People also said it would be impossible for them to top or even match the year before. Yet, one year later, Shawn and Undertaker are at WrestleMania again giving us more and then some! 

I want to point out something I loved about their entrances this year - they are perfect! Shawn didn't zip line over the crowd or ascend from the heavens this year. No, he came out just as the regular SHAWN MICHAELS which is much more special for a lifelong fan like me. 

Undertaker, however, rose from the depths of Hell dressed like the Grim Reaper of Souls coming to put Shawn’s career to rest. Simple things like that put the match on another level for me before the action even begins. Shawn's throat cut gesture is absolutely the perfect way to start this epic rematch because he's figuratively slapping death right in the face.

Shawn and Undertaker are here to END IT and they have to take the other man out as quickly as possible before any mistakes are made because as we saw last year, Shawn's one mistake cost him the match. Neither man can afford that this time so I appreciate how they both brought the fire out from the opening bell. 

Unfortunately, Undertaker made a HUGE mistake in delivering his Old School which injured his knee in the opening moments of the biggest match of his career. This only puts me on the brink of uncertainty more because it would be a believable story if Shawn beat an injured Undertaker to break the Streak and save his career.










I loved Shawn’s focused attack to Undertaker’s knee. We see brilliant psychology at play from Shawn when he feigned a Sweet Chin Music attempt to expose the severity of Undertaker’s injury. Once Shawn knew Undertaker was hurt it was like blood in the water and he viciously attacked. From the stiff kicks to the knee to Shawn applying the Figure Four leg-lock and Ankle lock, we see that Shawn’s determination but also adaptation he’s learned. Shawn used weapons of past WrestleMania opponents which tell us on a beautiful piece of his storybook career. It’s a case of what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger, but you also can use what almost killed you to damage another.

This isn’t just a match for the ages but it’s a match of their careers. They not only incorporated callback spots from Shawn’s WrestleMania 21 and XXIV matches but I saw things that go back even further in their own rivalry together. Spots such as Undertaker driving Shawn’s back into the steel post with intentions of reinjuring Shawn’s back and also putting the match on an even plain field since his knee is injured in such a high stakes contest. I couldn’t believe Undertaker again would risk crippling himself with the suicide dive but Shawn intervened again by torpedoing his body into The Deadman’s knees. This is an absolutely fine wrestling match. 

There are several spots in this match I love such as Shawn’s kip up straight into the Chokeslam and Undertaker sacrificing his knees to block the diving elbow drop. But one I really marked out for was the play on their WrestleMania XXV finish mixed with a callback from Undertaker’s WrestleMania 8 match with the Tombstone Piledriver on the floor! Now that was sick! It also looked like a move of desperation from Undertaker considering he was almost at a loss of breath after.

That brings me to Undertaker’s selling overall in this match which is nothing short of flawless. Undertaker sold his injury like his leg was hanging to his body by a thread. It may be the best selling I’ve ever seen in a wrestling match. The two Last Ride attempts were awesome. In the first attempt Undertaker’s knees gave out. In the second attempt I thought Undertaker sold his injury exceptional well when he spun around with Shawn in his hands so that his knees could get under him enough to hit the Last Ride with as much force as possible! 

It felt like Undertaker was working with a legit injury the entire match. The pain on his face, the strain in his voice as he yells and the heavy breathing all sold to me that this may be not only one of the most physically enduring matches of his career but the toughest test of his life! But I still can’t get over what may be Undertaker’s best performance selling the knee. I find all of his limping, striking his leg and grabbing the ropes just to stand up to be such an incredible showcase of the man’s greatness.

Shawn was great too. I swear when Shawn has a pained, emotionally frustrated look on his face with his arm stretched forward in the air almost searching for an extra source of strength, it is one of the most powerful things for me in some of his matches. That is one of the reasons why I have always gotten so emotionally wound up in his matches. I am still amazed at Shawn’s showcase of athleticism.










What I call the Moonsault of Death has to be one of the most amazing sights I have ever witnessed live. Shawn landed on Undertaker’s knees and may have snapped them. Much like the suicide dive Undertaker took at WrestleMania XXV, the move may not have hit the way it was intended to hit but the results fit the story of the match. The story naturally came together and they are able to create art from it because of their extraordinary chemistry together. You would think Shawn wanted to obliterate Undertaker’s knees they way he landed on them with so much rage. 

I totally bought into the false finishes too at the end. Shawn gave Undertaker one of the biggest Sweet Chin Musics ever and I swear I had flashbacks to WrestleMania XII at that point only this time I wasn’t cheering for the match to be over. I was in the crowd shouting, “NO! NO! NO! KICK OUT!!!” The guy in front of me turned around with a smile on his face when Taker barely kicked out. Now that I think about it he should have been too busy marking out hard too. I was freaking losing my mind for everything they did and I’m still fascinated with the match and not with how the crowd is reacting. 

When Undertaker caught Shawn for the Chokeslam after another SCM attempt, he looked like he was about to cry as he struggled to go over and hit him with another Tombstone! Every time I get to this point in the match I say to myself this is one of the most beautiful matches I’ve ever seen. I thought the second Tombstone was it too much like last year it took two Tombstones to put Shawn away but it wasn’t. I don’t know if everyone caught it but Undertaker kicking Shawn in the head was so bad ass! This match is the quintessential showdown in the desert between, in my opinion, the two greatest ever!










The closing moments are once again excellent storytelling in a dramatic finish reminiscent of two years ago when Shawn retired Ric Flair. That is where Shawn's road to this point began and now the career of the greatest performer ever ends in the most dramatic way. Within the context of the storyline of the match, it was definitely a case of Michaels earning Undertaker's ultimate respect. The streak is important to Undertaker, but he was just exasperated that Michaels wouldn't stay down and wasn't sure he wanted to end it all. Michaels never wanted Undertaker to go easy on him.

Shawn demanded Undertaker give him everything he had even if it meant Shawn had to signal the finish himself because as Shawn profoundly and prophetically stated if he couldn’t beat Undertaker he doesn’t need to wrestle any more. Hell no to Shawn staying down, Undertaker HAD to be the one to end Shawn Michaels’ career and Shawn made sure the end happened. 

The slap to the face certainly reassured Undertaker to lay the nail in. Shawn was defiant until the end with the cut throat gesture and slap, and Undertaker was defiant in sacrificing his knees and maybe Shawn’s neck in a jumping, SPIKE Tombstone Piledriver from Hell! For the love of God what a masterpiece!










It is inevitable for comparisons to be made between the WrestleMania XXV match and this one so I’ll tell you what I think. WrestleMania XXV had an electric aura to it that made every second essentially EPIC. The crowd was without question better too which made for a better atmosphere. This match isn’t as polished as WMXXV. It’s a little rougher, there’s an extra emphatic statement in every move. Because of the added stipulations and the break-neck pace from the start, there is a sense of urgency here so intense that makes the entire match feel like a 24-minute finishing stretch. 

As for which match is the better of the two? Honestly, I can't give you a definite answer. Both matches completely captured my imagination and indeed represent everything I love about wrestling. WrestleMania XXV is an absolute thrill ride and XXVI is an enduring, emotional story for the ages. I hold both as the two greatest WrestleMania matches ever.









*THE ULTIMATE WRESTLEMANIA MOMENT*

My eyes did tear up when Undertaker opened up for Shawn and the world to see more of his emotions as if we hadn’t seen enough in his enduring performance. I respect and admire these two men more than any other wrestlers and here they created the ultimate WrestleMania moment. 

The story of Shawn Michaels’ career these last couple of years has almost been biblical. Shawn has never hid his faith from us. He devotes his life to submitting himself to a higher cause. This is difficult for any man to accomplish - religious or not – and I believe Shawn wanted that to be showcased the final stretch of his career . His obsession of tarnishing Taker's undefeated WrestleMania streak was Michaels' way of encouraging us to forego our selfish and often materialistic goals in favor of having faith and hope. At least that’s what I want to believe.










Shawn Michaels stripped himself bare of any self-centeredness - from his standard entrance to the ring to a pyro-less walk back up the ramp - all of which allowed every fan to not be distracted from the beautiful performance that he and Undertaker put on. Shawn simply said, "This is all I can offer," and he humbly gave us his best work, and for that wrestling fans will always honor him. The emotion and the beauty of these moments will be preserved in my mind forever. 


 *THANK YOU SHAWN ... GOODBYE * ​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My review for my favourite match, which also happens to be the GOAT imo:



Spoiler: GOAT












*The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels – Hell in a Cell – WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood – October 5th 1997*

*Background*

This foundation for this match all began at SummerSlam that year. The Undertaker defended his WWF Title against Bret Hart, with Shawn Michaels as the special guest referee. At the time, The Undertaker had no problem with Shawn. Bret, on the other hand, couldn’t stand him. Towards the end of the match, Bret tried to use a chair on ‘Taker, but Shawn prevented him from doing so. Bret spit in the face of HBK, causing Shawn to retaliate, swinging the steel chair full force towards Bret’s head! But Bret moved, and down when The Undertaker. The Hitman took advantage and made the cover, and Shawn was forced to make the count. The Undertaker had lost the title thanks to Shawn Michaels, and you know the Dead Man wasn’t going to let it slide.

The very next night on Raw, The Undertaker tried to confront Shawn, but he got the hell out of there before anything could happen. Shawn running from The Undertaker here is just the start of things! The very next week, a match between Shawn and Undertaker is announced for Ground Zero! Later that night, Shawn faces off against Mankind, and DX begins to from. The Undertaker comes out to confront Shawn again, but is distracted by Paul Bearer and talk of his brother Kane.

Things really heat up the next week on Raw, as The Undertaker teams with Mankind to face Triple H and Shawn Michaels! Shawn does a great job of constantly escaping The Undertaker, before ending the show with 2 brutal chair shots to the head of the Dead Man, causing him to BLEED! The Undertaker sits right back up though, as Shawn once again runs away.

The following week on Raw, The Undertaker comes out to talk about the chair shots last week. ‘Taker tells us that after he got busted open last week, he took the blood that flowed from his head, and he signed Shawn Michaels’ death warrant with it!!!

Less than a week later, on a special Friday Night Raw, just 2 days before Ground Zero, The Undertaker faced off against Triple H, a huge brawl erupts, a sign of things to come, with The Undertaker going crazy and Chokeslamming everyone in sight, before slowly stalking Shawn Michaels!

Ground Zero’s main event saw The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels battle in a vicious war. They brawled before the match started, and even took out referees! They eventually settled down a bit, and the match could officially start. Back and forth action for a while, before again erupting into a massive brawl! Shawn realised he couldn’t keep the Dead Man down, so he tried to run again. The locker rooms emptied, as everyone did their best to keep these men apart, which is when we saw The Undertaker fly over the ropes like a cruiserweight and land on half the WWF roster to get to Shawn!!!

Raw the next night is where the first ever Hell in a Cell match is announced, with The Undertaker getting a second chance to face Shawn Michaels, this time with seemingly no escape for Shawn!

Over the next couple of weeks, they build to the match with promos, and then a beat down on The Undertaker, when Triple H, Chyna and Rick Rude attack him from behind after Shawn baits him out.

A week later, we see a re-match between Undertaker and Triple H! DX (not yet named), again beat down The Undertaker. This time they seem to have him down and out, and put the Dead Man in a body bag! What follows is one of my favourite Undertaker moments; he SITS UP while still in the body bag! He rips open the body bag and fights back against DX, just less than a week before Hell in a Cell!!!

WOW. Looking back on their feud like this made me realise just how awesome it was. I always remembered their matches being great, but the two months they use to build this match, including a PPV main event, is fantastic. Some great promos and segments between the two, but what I find to be the main thing that will force me to consider this one of the top feuds ever, is how they are simultaneously building TWO OTHER FEUDS AT THE SAME TIME! Yep, even with this rivalry getting as heated as it can get, they are also building towards The Undertaker Vs Kane, and Shawn Michaels Vs Bret Hart! Not only that, but they do it in a way that doesn’t in any way overshadow the current feud, but at the same time makes you want to see the other feuds as well.


*The Match*

Here we go! The first ever Hell in a Cell match. The Undertaker, fighting for revenge. Shawn Michaels, fighting to survive. Also, something that is often forgotten about this match, the #1 contendership for the WWF Championship at Survivor Series is on the line too!

Before the match starts, we see referee Earl Hebner padlock the cell door shut, as Shawn pleads with him to let him out. No chance Shawn. You danced with the devil, and now you are about to get burnt!

With the door locked, the match can begin. HBK circles the ring, as The Undertaker slowly stalks his prey. After everything Shawn has done to him over the last couple of months, The Undertaker wants to put Shawn through a lot of pain, and is going to take his time doing it. He sees no need to rush, no need to run after Shawn, because unlike Ground Zero, he has nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and no one to save him.

After playing a bit of cat and mouse, The Undertaker catches up to Shawn in the ring, and here we go! Nothing fancy, just ‘Taker grabbing Shawn by the back of his head, and ramming him into numerous turnbuckles. Shawn sells them like he just hit concrete, which some people would state he is overselling, but personally I loved it, and felt it made The Undertaker seem like a vicious powerful monster, which WWF were really turning him into at the time.

Shawn takes a beating for a couple of minutes, with ‘Taker working over the arm, hitting Old School, and even going for a cover at one point. Was The Undertaker trying to win? No, I don’t think he was. He gave Shawn a beating a month ago at Ground Zero, and Shawn never gave up, so he knew it would take more than what he had done so far to put HBK away. So why go for a cover? Because he can. He is showing Shawn that HE is in control, not Shawn. Also, kicking out of a pin attempt with a 300+ pounder on top of you wastes energy, and just helps The Undertaker more. A question some of you may be thinking is “why did Shawn kick out?”. Good question, because let’s face it, if Shawn didn’t kick out, the match would be over and he would escape the possibility of worse pain. Going back to what I said earlier, this match is for the #1 contendership. Shawn, like everyone in the WWF, wants the WWF Championship. Winning this match will place him in a title match, where he is one step closer to being champion once again. Then there is the fact Shawn is an arrogant heel, and beating The Undertaker will feed his ego, and give him bragging rights forever more.

The Undertaker decides to step things up a bit, as he grabs Shawn by the throat, seemingly going for a Chokeslam! Shawn senses this, and desperately fights his way out, sending ‘Taker into the corner. He mounts him, and begins to punch ‘Taker in the head. The Undertaker throws Shawn off, and he flies half way across the ring, again perhaps overselling, but IMO putting The Undertaker over even more. Shawn is a resilient man though, and he quickly gets to his feet and charges over into the corner to mount the Dead Man once again. 

Every time Shawn attempts any offence, The Undertaker just shrugs it off and continues his epic assault on the “Sexy Boy”. The fight goes to the outside, and things are about to get brutal. ‘Taker imposes his will on Shawn, using his size and power along with the deadly cell walls to inflict more pain and damage. A couple of spots I always enjoy are when The Undertaker picks up Shawn, then smashes him back first into the ring post, turns around and smashes him back first into the corner of the cell, turns around again and smashes him in the ring post once again, then turns around one last time to send him back first into the corner of the cell. The other is when ‘Taker goes for a powerbomb, but Shawn seemingly reverses it, punching The Undertaker repeatedly in the face, only for The Undertaker to turn around and repeatedly smash Shawn into the corner of the cell again! When Shawn drops to the floor, you can see the marks on his back left by the cell, showing you that he really did hit the cell, and he hit it hard.

The underlying story of this match continues, with Shawn using the cell to attempt an escape from the pain and destruction The Undertaker has on his mind. He tries his best to climb up the cell wall to get away, but The Undertaker is tall enough to reach up and drag Shawn back down, back to hell.

Again the cell comes into play in this match, this time providing Shawn with an opening he so desperately needed. ‘Taker whips Shawn into one of the cell walls, then comes running at him, only to smash face first into the cell himself! I’m unsure if it was Shawn being able to dodge the attack, of if the sheer force of The Undertaker’s Irish Whip caused Michaels to bounce off and dodge the attack, but either way it created an opening, and HBK took it!

Just as Shawn appears to have the advantage, The Undertaker fights back. But as quickly as he re-gained control, he loses it! Shawn knocks The Undertaker off the apron, and sends him into the cell, then follows it up with a suicide dive, again driving The Undertaker into the cell! He isn’t giving ‘Taker time to recover, as he climbs the cell once again, this time to drop an elbow! Shawn is looking strong in this match now. He has used his speed, quickness and high flying ability to gain control, and is now using dirty tactics to keep that control. One of my all time favourite spots (not just from this match, but in general) right here, as Shawn hits a Piledriver to The Undertaker, ON THE STEEL STEPS! It makes one hell of a sound, and just looks incredible.

But even after all of that, The Undertaker crawls back into the ring. Again, this is putting over The Undertaker as an unstoppable monster, while at the same time, showing how resilient and CREDIBLE Shawn Michaels is when he is in the ring with the bigger, stronger opponent. Shawn doesn’t like the fact The Undertaker is still coming after him, so he pulls out a steel chair! This epic feud all began with a steel chair shot, and Shawn hopes to end it with one. I say one, but Shawn hits ‘Taker twice for good measure, and makes the cover! 1…2… NO! The Undertaker is not going out like that again. He still needs to extract his revenge on Shawn, and a steel chair isn’t going to do it this time.

The match starts to change from this moment on, as The Undertaker back body drops Shawn over the ropes, and onto a camera man. Shawn begins to beat the hell out of the camera man, laying him out on the floor. Why did he do it? I believe because he knew it would force the referee to open the door for EMT’s to attend to the guy, and the open door would allow Shawn to escape.

Until then though, Shawn must keep The Undertaker at bay. HUGE elbow drop from the top, followed by Sweet Chin Music! While all of this is happening, the door has been opened too! This is the part where I now feel the door being opened was a contingency plan, IF his superkick was not enough to put down The Undertaker. After all, what would be better than pinning The Undertaker in this match, instead of running away?

Of course, things don’t quite work out for HBK, as The Undertaker sits right up from Sweet Chin Music! Shawn is shocked, and makes a run for the door before it’s closed again! The Undertaker follows him out and catches him, sending him into the cell wall on numerous occasions, and busting him open too!

Shawn is lucky once again to find a small opening, but what is he going to do with it now? Inside the cell, he was unable to put the Dead Man away with his finisher. Outside of the cell, he was still unable to get away from the monstrous beast. The only thing left, if for him to CLIMB to the top of the cell! Unfortunately for Shawn, The Undertaker, even at 330lbs, near 7 feet tall, is able to follow him up there too! 

Both men are now on top of the cell, and Shawn attempts a Piledriver up there, but instead gets a back body drop onto the steel! If that wasn’t bad enough, The Undertaker lifts him over his head, and slams him from over 7 feet in the air to the steel! Right hand now by The Undertaker, and Shawn nearly falls off the edge! He holds on, while The Undertaker has something sick on his mind. He stomps on one hand, he stomps on the other hand, and…

“Incoming!”

Shawn Michaels has nothing to hold on to, and falls back from halfway up the cell, through the announcer’s table! It crashes under the weight, and Shawn is a bloody mess on the concrete floor! It’s not over yet though, as The Undertaker climbs down, and slams him onto the floor!

While the majority of this match has been about The Undertaker being an unstoppable, almost un-human DESTRUCTION MACHINE, it’s also all about Shawn showing off just how damn resilient he is. After everything The Undertaker has done to him, he is STILL able to get up, and following the story of the match, does his best to get away from The Undertaker.

The Dead Man catches up to him once again, and throws him back into the cell, and the referee padlocks it shut one more time! Shawn is bleeding even more it seems, as it is flowing from the head of the Heart Break Kid.

The Undertaker has complete control now. He senses the time is right to put away the man who cost him the title, and starts it all off with a Chokeslam from the ropes! WOW! That isn’t enough though, as ‘Taker goes to the outside, and brings in a steel chair! As I’ve said before, this feud started with a chair shot, and The Undertaker wants it to end the same way. SICK chair shot to the bloodied head of Shawn Michaels, and payback is a BITCH! Undertaker signals that the end is here, but the lights go out, and we hear the eerie music of the man we discover to be… KANE!

Kane RIPS open the cell door, takes out the referee, and then stands face to face with his brother The Undertaker. He raises his arms, then brings them down to release fire from all 4 corners, just like The Undertaker has been known to do! The Undertaker is distracted, allowing Kane to hit a Tombstone!!!

Paul Bearer wakes the referee up, Shawn raises his head from the pool of blood he was lying in, and covers the Dead Man! A slow count, but The Undertaker is OUT of it. Shawn Michaels has WON!

Holy Shit! Every time I watch this match, I love it more and more. I love everything about it. From the way they build off the Ground Zero match with Shawn trying his best to simply get away, to the epic debut of Kane, which gives Shawn the big win, making him more credible going into the Survivor Series to fight for the title, while at the same time keeping The Undertaker credible from this loss, and further building The Undertaker/Kane feud that had been slowly boiling for months now.

People have been talking about Hell in a Cell matches for years, comparing them, ranking them, praising them and dissing them. I’ve seen people make excellent points as to why another cell match is more brutal, or why another cell match has more action, or why another cell match has better storytelling ect ect. That’s all good, people have different opinions, and that’s what makes us individuals. However, I do disagree with their opinions. I strongly believe that no other Hell in a Cell match has better storytelling, action, or even brutality. Sure, it might not be as straight up brutal as Brock Lesnar/The Undertaker, but it doesn’t have to be IMO. The fact that it’s built around one man just destroying the other makes it brutal to me. Then the blade job from Shawn, the fall from the cell, and the puddle of blood in the ring where Shawn is makes it just as brutal to me. It is only one of two cell matches that combines those three factors into the match (the second being The Undertaker Vs Edge, SummerSlam 2008), instead of just using two of the three, or in some cases, one.

This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match. I strongly believe that is has never been matched, and probably never will. It set the standard, and is the measuring stick not only for Hell in a Cell matches, but every other gimmick match too IMO. It shows perfectly how to combine storytelling, action and brutality into a single match, as well as how you put over both men involved, and even put over a completely new wrestler that has never been seen before the match (Kane). This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match, and I strongly believe it is the GREATEST MATCH OF ALL TIME.

*Rating: ******​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Yep. Listings for the Clash Set:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks mate, I'll defo try and get this one!!


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Brilliant reviews guys, keep them coming


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

I re-watched HBK/Taker from WM25 not too long ago and it actually lowered my rating for the match. Probably need to watch it a 3rd time, but for some reason it doesn't do the same for me as it used to. I used to have it as my GOAT, but not anymore. I feel like it's been overrated a lot on here.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I recently watched Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect for the Intercontinental title and I must say, perfect.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*MachoMadness1988*, what are _your_ favorite tag team matches?

Another one I want to mention is Austin/Michaels vs. Owen/Bulldog from Raw 5/26/97. The pace they set is insanely good and all four guys' chemistry together was close to flawless in this match. HOT tag team match.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I love both Taker/Michaels WM matches, but I'm starting to think the first one slightly edges out the second. Theres just something in the atmosphere surrounding the match that raises it higher for me, but I could easily change my mind with another watch of both.


----------



## Contrarian (Apr 21, 2012)

Is Michaels/taker from WM 25 really a spot fest? I've seen a few posts calling the match a spot fest. Confused!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Not a spot fest at all.

However I like the 26 one more, but they're both incredible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well technically, it does have plenty of spots in it. But the term spot fest has been killed on this forum. People use it as a negative, when actually its HOW and WHY the spots are done that makes it a positive or negative. Undertaker/HBK uses the spots to bring in the crowd and add emotion and play off both characters and their history together and their careers in general.

That said, I prefer their WM 26 match . Both are ***** for me though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cal, you need that  smiley back. :side:

Just finished giving Summerslam '09 a full watch.

Ziggler/Mysterio - ***3/4
Swagger/MVP - **1/4
Jerishow/Cryme Tyme - **1/4
Kane/Khali - DUD
DX/Legacy - ****
Regal/Christian - DUD 
Cena/Orton - **1/2
Hardy/Punk - ****1/2

Really strong show but fuck I hate that Orton/Cena match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I really do. Talk to Headliner for me, will ya? 

Glad someone else hates that Cena/Orton match. Though you probably like their 07 (?) SS match, which means you still suck :side:.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^I thought spot-fest was used to describe matches in which spots are executed with no rhyme or reason? I also prefer the Wrestlemania XXVI match between the two.

Speaking of which, who is everyone's favourite opponents (and partners actually, now that we're on the subject of tag matches) for their favourite wrestlers? Some of my preferences are:
Shawn and Undertaker against each other
Edge against Cena, with or against Christian
Jericho against Shawn or Benoit



Cookie Monster said:


> I'm interested to know what everyone's favourite match is and see you write a review up about it..


I could never do a single favourite match. I'm indecisive. I will do one on a favourite, once I decide which one.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

A spot fest is used to sum up TLC I, II & III. Saying Michaels/Taker is, sums up the mentality of the WWE section.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

TGO™ said:


> I re-watched HBK/Taker from WM25 not too long ago and it actually lowered my rating for the match. Probably need to watch it a 3rd time, but for some reason it doesn't do the same for me as it used to. I used to have it as my GOAT, but not anymore. I feel like it's been overrated a lot on here.


I think the reason for this is that when you rewatch these types of matches you lose the shock factor, and suspense. It's alot better when watching live.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I really do. Talk to Headliner for me, will ya?
> 
> Glad someone else hates that Cena/Orton match. Though you probably like their 07 (?) SS match, which means you still suck :side:.


I'll put in a word. 

And I don't mind the SS '07 one but the rest of that show is so terrible that I refuse to put it in and watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that's kinda ok . But I don't think the match is good at all. Its literally the SAME sequence of moves repeated about 5 or 6 times before they go into a finish. Same reason I don't like Flair/Sting; just the same thing over and over until the time is up.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I think the reason for this is that when you rewatch these types of matches you lose the shock factor, and suspense. It's alot better when watching live.


I did watch live, but unfortunately I wasn't a smark then. You don't really appreciate that kind of stuff when you aren't a smark.

BTW, what does everyone here base their ratings off of? Excitement factor, technical prowess, pace, flow, spots, storyline influence? I was wondering because yesterday I was watching Hart Foundation/BB + Hart Foundation/Killer Bees from '85 and '86 and found it hard to get into them. Probably because I was rather ill and couldn't focus so I'm gonna give 'em a re-watch, but it's especially hard for me to rate tag matches for one reason or another.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

TGO™ said:


> BTW, what does everyone here base their ratings off of? Excitement factor, technical prowess, pace, flow, spots, storyline influence?


Good wrestling primarily. Not even 'z0mg workrate' because I can barely distinguish it in guys most of the time. But there is this feeling I get when I watch good wrestling, and if it presents itself in a match it usually gets at least 4*s from me, a great match. If it presents itself but only briefly and sporadically, in the 3* range. 

Sometimes in matches it feels like they're doing everything right but it still doesn't connect with me. I don't rate those matches. I can only put a bad rating out if I'm able to specify what made it so red reels.

Other points go to excitement and storytelling. There are some certain matches that you know the winner to, but still get completely lost in and can jump at every false finish. Other matches where you don't even need one of those brilliantly made WWE promo packages to know what's going on with the two men, because they make sure they weave the story into the match. 

Speaking of red reels, I watched most of John Cena: My Life the other day. And boy, it was red reels. I think they spent a good ten minutes talking about his spinner championships, or something. What brainless fluff.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

TGO™ said:


> I did watch live, but unfortunately I wasn't a smark then. You don't really appreciate that kind of stuff when you aren't a smark.
> 
> BTW, what does everyone here base their ratings off of? Excitement factor, technical prowess, pace, flow, spots, storyline influence? I was wondering because yesterday I was watching Hart Foundation/BB + Hart Foundation/Killer Bees from '85 and '86 and found it hard to get into them. Probably because I was rather ill and couldn't focus so I'm gonna give 'em a re-watch, but it's especially hard for me to rate tag matches for one reason or another.


Fair enough. But my point is they are not going to be as thrilling to see on a rewatch and that could impact your ratings.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think the storytelling and the pace are two really important factors for me. I find faster matches to be more entertaining generally. And then more or less just how the match is worked and the flow of it. Things like counters and variations of moves and such come into play, not sure if I'd consider that spots.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Randomly went on Half.com and found a Like New condition copy of SummerSlam 2002 with insert for $5.99

That's too fucking good to pass up.

I also bought Royal Rumble 2012 Blu-ray from Amazon while I was at it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Current top how many ever matches I thought were great this year:

1. The Undertaker v Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****¼)
2. Brock Lesnar v John Cena - Extreme Rules (****¼)
3. Sheamus v Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules (****)
4. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****)
5. Raw Elimination Chamber - Elimination Chamber (***¾)
6. CM Punk v Mark Henry - Raw 4/2/12 (***½)
7. CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - Raw 1/30/12 (***½)
8. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Extreme Rules (***½)


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Brye said:


> Cal, you need that  smiley back. :side:
> 
> Just finished giving Summerslam '09 a full watch.
> 
> ...


Love this show. This was my probably my favorite PPV of 2009 (undecided between this and No Way Out). Even stranger that this PPV took place when RAW was just horrible, but PPVs were good.

Ziggler/Mysterio - ***3/4
Swagger/MVP - **1/4
Jerishow/Cryme Tyme - **3/4
Kane/Khali - **1/2
DX/Legacy - ***1/4
Regal/Christian - DUD
Cena/Orton - ***1/2
Hardy/Punk - ****

Mysterio/Ziggler is an amazing opener, Swagger/MVP is surprisingly weak, but may have just been psyched out by the match before, the tag title match is a solid tag match, I really enjoyed Kane/Khali. The sight of two behemoths battling never gets old to me, and they kept the pace nice. DX/Legacy is a good tag match, Regal/Christian obviously isn't a match. Personally, I really enjoyed Cena/Orton. 

It was nothing like their 2007/2008 match. It was a solid match, but I loved the lunacy at the end. It worked given McMahon's hatred towards Orton, and I really didn't know when it would end. Good overbooking to me.

Hardy/Punk is just a great main event, a great spotfest, awesome match. 

This is a nice deep card, showing off their secondary title division, a couple of tag matches, their monsters, and two very big main events.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TGO™;11425874 said:


> BTW, what does everyone here base their ratings off of? Excitement factor, technical prowess, pace, flow, spots, storyline influence? I was wondering because yesterday I was watching Hart Foundation/BB + Hart Foundation/Killer Bees from '85 and '86 and found it hard to get into them. Probably because I was rather ill and couldn't focus so I'm gonna give 'em a re-watch, but it's especially hard for me to rate tag matches for one reason or another.


I would say for me it goes something like:

1) Workrate (Includes pace, flow, counters, execution of moves, etc.)- **
2) Psychology/Selling (How smart each of the wrestlers fight and how the selling is. Usually it's the heel responsible for psychology and the face responsible for selling, but there are exceptions, like in face vs face matches)- *3/4
3) Storytelling (How do certain moves or sequences play into the story of the match or story of the feud... also includes callback spots)- 3/4*
4) Crowd (How lively or how dead the crowd acts can affect my interest in a match to some degree... though not as much as others I think) 1/2*
5) Level of match (How big the match is or built up)- 1/2*
6) Personal Enjoyment (My complete personal feelings on the match)- 1/2*

Now that totals 6 stars. I leave an extra star to differentiate between the top 5 star matches and the lower tier 5 star matches.

That's pretty much how I'd structure it. So... for example Taker/HBK WM25 vs. their HIAC match:

WM25 
Workrate: *3/4 
Psychology/Selling: *1/4 
Storytelling: 1/2* 
Crowd: 1/2* 
Level of match: 1/2* 
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2* 
Total: ***** 

HIAC
Workrate: *1/2
Psychology/Selling: *3/4 (an exception to the face-heel rule I mentioned earlier... it was the opposite)
Storytelling: 3/4*
Crowd: 1/2*
Level of Match:: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*
Total: *****1/2 (Which I put at *****, but it's higher tier compared to their WM25 match)


Although I've never actually this to do star by star in each category and usually just slap a rating on with this in mind, but I figured I've over-complicate things and do this.

As for the WM26 match:

W/R: *3/4
P/S: *1/2
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4* 
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/4*

Total: ****3/4 (I just slap ****1/2 on this match usually, but actually using this system it's ****3/4... what do ya know  )

I'll actually do Taker's WM14, 17, 18, 21, 23, 24, 27, and 28 for the hell of it... though I do need to re-watch the first three as while I think the crowd was great for each, I honestly can't remember 100%.

WM14 (vs. Kane):

W/R: *
P/S: *1/2
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****

WM17 (vs. HHH)

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/4*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/4*

Total: ****

WM18 (vs. Flair)

W/R: *1/4
P/S: *
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ***3/4

WM21 (vs. Orton)

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/4*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: **** (down from ****1/4 I'm used to giving it)

WM23 (vs. Batista)

W/R: *3/4
P/S: *
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****3/4 (up from ****1/2 I'm used to giving it)

WM24 (vs. Edge)

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****1/4

WM27 (vs. HHH)

W/R: 3/4*
P/S: *1/2
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 0 (Yeah... don't really like the match at all. The tombstone by HHH to the kickout though I could watch over and over and over again  )

Total: ***3/4 (Up from ***1/2 I'm used to giving it)

WM28 (vs. HHH)

W/R: *
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/4*

Total: ****

This is a bit more interesting than just slapping on a random rating. Actually, may as well make this a super long post and do my top 5 cell matches (well... we'll see if they're still all top 5 after this):

Taker/HBK... see above.

Taker vs. Lesnar NM02:

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4 (Taker's selling of the arm half-way through is actually what stops this from being *3/4... maybe I took off a bit much for it, but it is kinda bleh to me)
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****3/4 

Taker vs. Edge Summerslam 08:

W/R: *1/4
P/S: *3/4
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****3/4

Batista vs. HHH Vengeance 05:

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/2
Storytelling: 1/4*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****1/2

Undertaker vs. Batista SS07:

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/4*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****1/2 

Also something I thought about was breaking tie breakers. What I'd do is in the case of a tie, look at personal enjoyment and whichever one is higher wins. If that is the same, I go to W/R, then P/S, and so on down the list. So Taker/Lesnar beats Taker/Edge due to W/R, and Batista/HHH beats Taker/Batista due to P/S. 

But yeah, gonna do this more with matches as like I said, it makes it more interesting for me. I think it would be interesting to see everyone divide the stars to each category... although putting more weight on one category over others for each individual depending on what's more important to them.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I don't even look at matches like that at all though. I don't have a set formula for rating a match at all. I would say it's a majority personal enjoyment but I find myself enjoying all different types of matches. If a match is 20 minutes long and at the end I can say to myself, "That was awesome" the match is going to get a really high rating regardless of any other flaws it may have. I can't really think of any example either where I can say that a match didn't have any flaws but I just didn't like it. I'm sure there has been at least one but I generally believe that if I don't enjoy a match it's because the match just isn't good. 

Some of my favorite matches that I've given really high ratings to all have different reasons why they got the rating. I consider Triple H/Stone Cold 3 Stages of Hell a 5* match and the main reason on that is because they seemed to really hate each other and the workrate is incredible. One of my other favorite matches is the CZW vs. ROH Cage of Death and I gave that match 5* because the story that was told has enough substance to be used to write a movie. I don't think I enjoyed one match more than the other but those matches have very little in common other than my love for them.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Anyone got any thoughts on the Royal Rumble of '99? I have the whole Rumble Anthlogy set with the PPV's from 88 to 07 (when the DVD set came out), and rewatched it again for the first time in a couple of years and my reviews of it went down and hard. The matches were lackluster, even for Attitude Era standards, the Rock and Mick Foley I Quit match was actually alright and a lot better than the Rumble itself in my opinion and the only watchable match on the card. All the others I went and fast forwarded a bit cause I just couldn't sit through it. 

The Royal Rumble itself wasn't all that good either, previous ones were a lot better, it didn't live up to the hype. All the match was around the Vince / Austin power struggle and it made everyone else seem unimportant and everyone knew it was going to be one of them two winning even with the bounty on Austin's head. Even when they went backstage to Austin getting beaten up during the match, it made the rest of the action in the ring seem like crap and no one should care about them.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The 1999 Royal Rumble is the worst Rumble match that I can ever remember seeing. It's terribleness is defined when one guy (I honestly can't remember who) comes out to the ring but there is nobody else there. Now instead of grabbing a microphone or engaging the crowd in some other way the guy just fucking stood there and did nothing until the next guy came out.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Cage-Taylor Phitz said:


> The 1999 Royal Rumble is the worst Rumble match that I can ever remember seeing. It's terribleness is defined when one guy (I honestly can't remember who) comes out to the ring but there is nobody else there. Now instead of grabbing a microphone or engaging the crowd in some other way the guy just fucking stood there and did nothing until the next guy came out.


Not to mention it was full of random jobbers, (most Rumble's are but more than the usual) because most of the mid card was too busy beating Austin up in the bathroom or wherever it was, I remember seeing some huge Eric Cartman South Park guy, Gulga I think his name was, Gilberg, Blue Menie, Dan Severn, Al Snow, Kurrgan, Godfather and not to forget Chyna being in there for a total of maybe two minutes. Kane dominating the first half of the Rumble until he eliminated himself? (why just why?)


----------



## MarkOut4Barrett (Oct 13, 2011)

I have a bit of a dilemma, I can only buy one dvd due to funds so should I buy the new Edge DVD or The Best off Raw & Smackdown 2011 DVD?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I enquired to SilverVision about the WCW Clash DVD, I was sent this response:

The last 3 preorder titles have been temporarily removed from sale by the WWE, as yet we have no information as to when they will be reinstated.

I hope its still out over here in May, last resort is Region 1...


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Watched Michaels/Taker from Ground Zero and it's clear that Michaels was a roided, coked up prick who completely overselled throughout that match. I know for a fact if Cena was doing that today, there would be twice the amount of hate that he gets now. He even spat into the face of a person in the crowd, that was pretty low. I'm just glad he made a comeback in 02, because apart from the Hogan match, he was a completely different person. If only the IWC existed back the aye?

P.S I didn't really enjoy the Ground Zero match, Taker was fantastic in it but Michaels bugged me throughout, he looked completely off it.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Word said:


> Watched Michaels/Taker from Ground Zero and it's clear that Michaels was a roided, coked up prick who completely overselled throughout that match. I know for a fact if Cena was doing that today, there would be twice the amount of hate that he gets now. He even spat into the face of a person in the crowd, that was pretty low. I'm just glad he made a comeback in 02, because apart from the Hogan match, he was a completely different person. If only the IWC existed back the aye?
> 
> P.S I didn't really enjoy the Ground Zero match, Taker was fantastic in it but Michaels bugged me throughout, he looked completely off it.







I just love Shawn's entrance here,he spits on the fans and then he slapped the fans hands like a face lol.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Spitting in the crowd though, I don't understand that, just seems wrong. Nevertheless, I did enjoy him back then just not his attitude.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

*Wrestlemania 28*

So before i start, I didnt see this ppv at all until it came out on dvd. I heard some good stuff about this ppv, but I have to say that some of the matches surprised the hell out of me. One of the best Wrestlemania's I have ever seen. Only topped by WM 19, 17, 24, 26, 21.

*1. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan (World Heavyweight Championship)*
18 seconds. That is all. They should have given these guys 15-20 minutes, and we could have gotten a classic like the one that we got a month later at Extreme Rules. If this match had gotten the time like at Extreme Rules, then WM 28 really would have been the greatest Wrestlemania of all time. Anyways, Sheamus wins and becomes the new world heavyweight champion.
*match rating: DUD*

*2. Randy Orton vs Kane*
The crowd was still chanting DB, and YES chants, but these two guys quickly turned their attention to the action that was going on in the ring. Some good counters, and the action never slows down. Great ending as well with the giant chokeslam of the top rope.
*match rating: ***1/4*

*3. Big Show vs Cody Rhodes*
Short match, but it did no harm. Its only like 5 minutes long, and in those 5 minutes we see a couple of nice moves, especially a spear to the nuts of Cody Rhodes. At the end a new intercontinental champion is crowned, and Big Show makes history.
*match rating: 3/4**

*4. Divas tag match*
Not too bad. There is a nice move by kelly Kelly of the top rope, and the other chick didnt do too bad. Standard divas tag match though, other then the nice move by Kelly.
*match rating: 1/2**

*5. Undertaker vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell)*
Special Referee: Shawn Michaels
Holy hell, this match is awesome. I personally love the HHH/Taker series more then the Taker/HBK series. I have their WM 27 match at around ****3/4. I didnt think this match could get any better, but it did. Chairs, steel steps, the cell, and a sledgehammer were all used. There is even some blood in this one. 

The bruises on the back of Undertaker were sick from all the chair shots he took. He paid HHH back just as bad though when he beat the hell out of him with a steel chair as well. The near falls were great, especially the one with the Super Kick and the Pedigree. 

What I really loved was when at one point Undertaker was on the floor, and Triple H puts the sledgehammer over Undertaker's skull, then he is about to kill Undertaker by smashing his skull to pieces. I loved it because HHH was saying during the build up that he knew what he had to do this time, and he was really going to kill Undertaker, just so he could win the match.

The final thing that has to be talked about is the story in the match. They told an amazing story. All 3 men. You could hear them telling the other to quit, and telling Shawn to end it. Shawn's acting was pretty great as well. 

I also loved how the match ends. Undertaker finally gets his victory over Triple H. Last year he won, but couldnt even get out of the ring because HHH killed him so bad. This year, Undertaker walks out of the ring as the victor on his own two feet.

After the match all 3 men walk out of the ring together and the crowd cheers them on. Great moment that I will never forget. My only problem with this match is the end of an era thing they were talking about. How is this the end of an era, when Undertaker will be back next year, and Triple H is already back.
*match rating: ******

*6. Chris Jericho vs CM Punk (WWE Champion)*
Ok, this match surprised me like no tomorow. People around here have it usually around 4 stars, so I eas expecting something good, but not anything this good. The match is stiff, and there is a lot of great action, near falls, and a hot crowd. I swear, I thought the match would end so many times. I can just imagine how the crowd felt watching this live. It is honestly one of my favorite matches that has happened at Wrestlemania. I just love it that much.
*match rating: ****1/2*

*7. 12 man tag team match*
Decent match. I thought it would be better though. The first half of the match is kidn of slow, but it picks up a lot in the last few minutes of the match. Funny how the Miz is still undefeated at Wresltemania, 3-0.
*match rating: **1/2*

*8. The Rock vs John Cena*
Great main event. not a 4 or 5 star classic, but its still a great match. I thought they would do this match like Rock/Hogan, but they went in an opposite way. They gave them 30 minutes to put on a great match. It was great seeing the Rock back in a match, and plus this was at a Wrestlemania.

The crowd is great, and the action is good. I really fell for it at the end when Cena did the second AA on the Rock after the failed Crossbody of the top rope. At the end the Rock wins the match and the crowd goes crazy. Great ending to Wrestlemania, and the Rock winning was the right choice in my opinion. It sent the fans home happy.
*match rating: ***1/2*

So overall, this is a great ppv. HHH/Taker, Jericho/Punk, Rock/Cena, Orton/Kane were all to great match. Much better then Wrestlemania 27 in my opinion.​


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Accidental multi-post; Leave only the last one.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Accidental multi-post; Leave only the last one.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I recently watched an interview Foley did with a local reporter while on his current comedy tour. They asked him about his work with Santino at Mania, as well as some of the matches. He gives good reviews to the Punk match & HIAC. I agree with the former, but not the latter. I believe now (& likely always will) this year's WWE Title match was better than last. I didn't care much for this year's Taker match, & can't recall last year's.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

My top 5 Matches of the Year

1. Undertaker vs Triple H- Wrestlemania 28 (*****)
2. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan- Extreme Rules (**** 1/2)
3. The Rock vs John Cena- Wrestlemania 28 (**** 1/4)
4. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho- Extreme Rules (****)
5. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena- Extreme Rules( *** 1/2)


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Sheamus (c) vs. Daniel Bryan Extreme Rules 2012- World Heavyweight Championship 2 out of 3 Falls ****1/2*

Just watched this match today and holy crap, WHAT A MATCH. This is what should have happened at Wrestlemania but nonetheless, this match was great. The crowd was gold with the "Yes!" chants, it had awesome psychology and it had good back and forth action. I liked Daniel Bryan working on Sheamus's arm and how that played a factor in the first two falls. I also liked how Daniel Bryan was the surprising aggressor in the beginning. I liked how the "18 seconds" played a role and made the match mean that much more. Easily Daniel Bryan and Sheamus's best match, well to me at least.

Side note: Marked for "I have til 5!"


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So after using my new RATINGZ! system for some of the top matches of the year, here's what I got for them:

Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk ER 2012:
W/R: *1/4
P/S: *
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*
Overall: **** (down from ****1/4 I slapped it at before)

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho WM28:
W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/2
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*
Overall: ****1/2 (up from **** I slapped it at before)

Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus ER 2012:
W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/4*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 0
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*
Total: ****

Brock vs. Cena ER 2012:
W/R: *
P/S: 3/4*
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*
Total: ***3/4 (down from **** I slapped it at before)

Taker vs. HHH WM28

W/R: *
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/2*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/4*

Total: ****

1) Punk vs. Jericho WM28
2) Bryan vs. Sheamus ER
3) Punk vs. Jericho ER
4) Taker vs. HHH WM28
5) Brock vs. Cena ER

Interestingly enough, despite initially feeling that Jericho/Punk ER was better than it's WM counterpart, when I dissected it and graded each category, Punk/Jericho WM comes out on top and as the MOTY. I still do enjoy personally Punk/Jericho ER more, but looking at it as objectively as possible it's interesting for me how it turned out that the WM match was better. Brock/Cena went down a bit but I still do love the match and how brutal it was. I honestly think it's one of those matches where a rating doesn't do it justice, and it's just on a different level because of how unique and brutal it was.

But yeah, may as well do some more Punk matches while I'm at it:

Punk/Del Rio SVS2011:

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *
Storytelling: 1/4*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/4*

Total: ***3/4

Punk/Ziggler November Raw:

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2* (Can't remember the crowd from the match that well as it's been awhile and Punk/Ziggler have had several matches since, but I think they were great)
LOM: 0
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****1/4

Punk/Ziggler RR:

W/R: *1/4
P/S: *
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/2*
LOM: 0
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ***3/4

Punk/Henry Raw after WM:

W/R: *
P/S: *3/4
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/4*

Total: ****

Punk/Henry Raw Street Fight:

W/R: *
P/S: *
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/4*

Total: ***1/4

Also... just remembered I wanted to do the Taker/Show matches from 08:

Taker vs. Big Show NM08:

W/R: *1/4
P/S: *
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ***3/4

Taker vs. Show CS08 (put it at ****1/4 on last watch... let's see if this changes that ):

W/R: *1/2
P/S: *1/4
Storytelling: 1/2*
Crowd: 1/4*
LOM: 1/4*
Personal Enjoyment: 1/2*

Total: ****1/4 

I'm gonna skip rating SVS because I haven't watched the match since it aired... and I don't want the series spoiled for me. 

But I think this post has been long enough. I'll probably go through HHH's 2000 PPV matches... well the ones I remember well enough/have seen recently enough.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I almost finished reviews of NWO 05 and ARM 05 the past two nights, but fell asleep and lost all of my notes on the two. Since this has me ridiculously frustrated, I decided to set back my 05 series of reviews and review a series of matches between two individuals.

Any suggestions on which series I should review ?

EX: Taker-HHH, Rock-Austin, HHH-HBK, Lesnar-Taker, etc. It can really be ANY series, as the only DVDs I have left to watch in my collection are discs 2 and 3 of the EDGE DVD, and EC 2012. I'ma cop WM XXVIII Whenever it's at my local Wal-Mart


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Just finished watching "WWE's Greatest Rivalries: Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart", absolutely amazing, what a DVD.

I want to watch Stone Cold next, what is his best DVD? is it his new one that is called "The Legacy of Stone Cold"? or is the "Bottom Line" one better?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

His new one has a documentary which is fantastic, as far as matches go both have some really good matches and some really "meh" matches that should have never made a DVD set .


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Any suggestions on which series I should review ?
> 
> EX: Taker-HHH, Rock-Austin, HHH-HBK, Lesnar-Taker, etc. It can really be ANY series, as the only DVDs I have left to watch in my collection are discs 2 and 3 of the EDGE DVD, and EC 2012. I'ma cop WM XXVIII Whenever it's at my local Wal-Mart


 I say go for HHH/HBK. It's really the only series that spans all that far (as Taker/HHH is only two matches unless you count WM X7 or KOTR '02, Rock/Austin is mostly WM matches, Lesnar/UT is just three).

-SummerSlam 2002 - Unsanctioned Street Fight
-Survivor Series 2002 - Elimination Chamber - (obviously part of the series, as the last 10 minutes is the continuation of their rivalry)
-Armageddon 2002 - Three Stages of Hell
-RAW - December 2003
-Royal Rumble 2004 - Last Man Standing
-WrestleMania XX
-Backlash 2004
-Bad Blood 2004 - Hell in a Cell

I excluded Backlash '03 since it was just a tag match and HBK was more feuding with Jericho, SummerSlam 2003 since HBK was feuding with Orton and HHH with Goldberg, and I left in WM XX and Backlash '04 since they clear continuations of their rivalry which led to HIAC.

Enjoy.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

> “The 50 Greatest Finishing Moves in WWE History” has officially been added to the upcoming Home Video schedule.
> This countdown style feature is set for release on August 21st to the United States, following the Money in the Bank 2012 DVD release one week prior.
> 
> It’s confirmed that it will be produced as 3-Disc DVD and 2-Disc Blu-ray sets.
> ...


The Rock Bottom !! , Attitude Adjustment !!..non of them deserve to be in the top 10 to be honest.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

blazegod99 said:


> My top 5 Matches of the Year
> 
> 1. Undertaker vs Triple H- Wrestlemania 28 (*****)
> 2. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan- Extreme Rules (**** 1/2)
> ...


Almost the same for me here's the mine


1. Undertaker vs Triple H- Wrestlemania 28 
2. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan- Extreme Rules 
3. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena- Extreme Rules 
4. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho- Wrestlemania 28
5. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho- Extreme Rules 

I don't rate, just my fave 5!!


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

KingCal said:


> His new one has a documentary which is fantastic, as far as matches go both have some really good matches and some really "meh" matches that should have never made a DVD set .


So would you recommend the second one and say it's a better overall DVD?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

The second one is better and covers Austin's whole career.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks, will give that a watch then!


----------



## Jinn DMZ (May 3, 2012)

The new Austin dvd "The Bottom Line on the Most Popular Superstar of All Time" is a good dvd, it's 4-disks long and the first disk is a pretty good documentary. It definitely tells his story better than "The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin" which just has Austin talking for 3-5 minutes in quick interludes between matches. I wasn't crazy about the match selection on the new one though, it had a lot of his Wrestlemania and Summer Slam matches that I've seen a billion times before and not a whole lot of his pe-WWE stuff. 

Although for me, the matches on "The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin" were a better compilation. The two Kane matches from KOTR 98 and the following Monday's Raw were unnecessary, but that was my only real gripe with it. It has quality WCW and ECW matches and pre-rattlesnake WWE Austin, and even his legendary ECW promos. All around, it's a better dvd imo.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Here's my current MOTYC list.

1. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: Undertaker vs. Triple H_ - ****1/2
2. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
3. _Extreme Rules 2012: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
4. _Extreme Rules 2012: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****
5. _WWE RAW 4/2/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ****
6. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: John Cena vs. The Rock_ - ***3/4
7. _WWE RAW 4/16/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ***3/4
8. _Elimination Chamber 2012: RAW Elimination Chamber_ - ***1/2
9. _Extreme Rules 2012: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar_ - ***1/2
10. _WWE Smackdown 2/21/12: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ***1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/Trips Mania 28
Brock/Cena ER
Punk/Jericho ER
Rock/Cena Mania 28
Punk/Jericho Mania 28

*need to watch Fella/DB again before I'm able to place it


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I am gonna order Evolution of a Predator tomorrow and I would like some quick opinions on it from you guys. Many Thanks.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Taboo Tuesday 2005

Ric Flair vs. Triple H - ***1/2

Shit load of blood. I've heard people praise this to the highest, even a few 5* flutters or even 'my personal favourite' match. Yeah I really enjoyed it but it wasn't anything mind blowing, Trips takes the offence for 10 minutes then Flair repeats the favour.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Both HHH/Flair matches from '05 are in the ****-****1/4 range for me. 

Can't say I'm feeling the love for Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules. It was good but at times it seemed to drag and there was some stuff I just didn't care for at all. Nothing wrong with the action but as a match it didn't come together as well as their Wrestlemania bout. Hell, I think Punk/Henry I and Punk/Bryan I from Raw are better matches and I'd much rather watch them again than the Chicago street fight.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Haven't seen their LMS yet, probably watch that tonight.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH from 2000-2001 PPV bouts I can at least somewhat fairly rate (ones not included I can barely remember at all). I also re-watched a few forgotten but I remember being great like HHH/Benoit NM00 and HHH/Angle RR01. I also re-watched HHH/Austin SS and it went up quite a bit in my book. But here are the total ratings... if anyone cares enough and wants to see how I broke it down, feel free to ask. I just don't see the need in posting every single breakdown every single time:

HHH/Foley RR00- ***** (up from ****3/4)
HHH/Foley NWO00- ****1/4 (Same)
WM16 Fatal Four Way- ***1/2 (Same)
HHH/Rock Backlash 00- ****1/2 (up from ****1/4)
HHH/Rock JD 00- ****1/4 (down from ****1/4)
HHH/Jericho FL00- ****1/2 (Same)
HHH/Angle/Rock SS00- ***1/4 (down from ***1/2)
HHH/Angle Unforgiven 00- *** (don't remember what I had this at before, but I think it was a bit higher)
HHH/Benoit NM00- **** (same)
HHH/Austin SVS00- ***3/4 (up from ***)
Armageddon HIAC- **** (same)
HHH/Angle RR01- ***3/4 (same)
HHH/Austin NWO01- ****1/2 (Up from 
HHH/Taker WM17- ****

What I gather from this is HHH's first half of 2000 was incredible, and while the last half of 2000 and 2001 were great, they just aren't at the same level as the first 6-7 months of PPV's for HHH. 

Also some other random ratings:

Rock/Cena WM28- ***1/2
Flair/HHH TT05- ***3/4
Flair/HHH SVS05: ***1/4


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Power Trip vs. Jericho/Benoit - ****3/4
Triple H/Benoit vs. Jericho/Rock - ****1/4

From RAW & SD respectively should be added to that list too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

PowerTrip vs. Benoit and Jericho: ****1/4

Never seen the Jericho/Rock vs. Benoit/HHH match though. I assume it happened on the build up to Fully Loaded?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ownage™ said:


> Both HHH/Flair matches from '05 are in the ****-****1/4 range for me.
> 
> Can't say I'm feeling the love for Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules. It was good but at times it seemed to drag and there was some stuff I just didn't care for at all. Nothing wrong with the action but as a match it didn't come together as well as their Wrestlemania bout. Hell, I think Punk/Henry I and Punk/Bryan I from Raw are better matches and I'd much rather watch them again than the Chicago street fight.


Absolutely agree with all of this. Just don't see what other people do in the ER match. WM was worlds above it. Also agree on those raw matches being better.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The GAME vs. KANE in a CHAIN match wasn't too bad from Judgment Day '01. Power Trip vs. Brothers of Destruction at Backlash '01 is good too.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Obis said:


> PowerTrip vs. Benoit and Jericho: ****1/4
> 
> Never seen the Jericho/Rock vs. Benoit/HHH match though. I assume it happened on the build up to Fully Loaded?


Around that time yeah, watch it, pretty unheard of around here.



Clique said:


> The GAME vs. KANE in a CHAIN match wasn't too bad from Judgment Day '01. Power Trip vs. Brothers of Destruction at Backlash '01 is good too.


Great matches but the level Trips was one, they're easy to brush aside.

I'm watching Survivor Series 03 throughout now and it's pretty epic, such a great show.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I am gonna order Evolution of a Predator tomorrow and I would like some quick opinions on it from you guys. Many Thanks.


Matches:
There are a couple of throwaway "because he's a legend" matches on there. vs Hogan at Summerslam, vs Dusty Rhodes are just not worth it, if you're not sentimental about any of the guys. The vs Angle Vengeance match I've seen twice, and it was pretty good iirc. Orton vs Foley is probably the best match on there, my joint favourite Randy Orton match and a definite classic.
I've seen the Wrestlemania XXIV Triple Threat twice too, and for me there's something missing in that match. He's had matches vs Edge in 2004 on RAW and at Vengeance, and I'm pretty sure I've watched them both but I can't even be sure, because I can't tell the difference by memory. I think they are okay.
Orton vs Christian is on there, the first one with the dreaded result. If you're not a particularly big Christian fan, give it a watch because apparently it's great stuff. Not even the best of the series, which says something about that wonderful, brilliant, excellent, great, awesome match series.

The doc:
It's okay. A lot of people praise it for being refreshingly honest (for example, Orton talks candidly about his drug problems, deserting from the marines and the fact that being a wrestler was not his dream growing up) but then they couple that with kayfabe, which is extremely odd. Why film a clip of him being "really angry" that he was eliminated from the chamber by Punk? It was really out of place, and made me wonder what else they were trying to get over on us tbh. 
Nevertheless, it's got the standard high-end production that all WWE DVDs are subject to, and that alone would have made it an enjoyable watch. Not just for Orton fans, not just for wrestling fans, but for everyone.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*CM Punk vs. Bryan Danielson w/Ricky Steamboat as Special Guest Referee* - _ROH Reborn: Stage 1 04/23/2004_

There's a lot of animosity here between Punk and special referee Ricky Steamboat. "The Dragon" wants to call a clean wrestling match between two of the best young talents using the canvas in the ring to draw a physical work of art. "The American Dragon" Bryan Danielson wants to oblige and showcase his strong mat wrestling acumen and prove on yet another occasion why his reputation of "Best In The World" stands. 

Punk will have none of that. Punk is a so good at working his slimy, antagonist character into almost every second of his performance. Punk embellishes the antagonist role so well with Steamboat and makes the special referee factor important to the match without bringing down the performance of the men actually fighting each other. Punk and Bryan are in a wrestling battle to decide a winner and dueling with that story is Steamboat and Punk in a moral battle of and the corruptible snake (Punk) taking liberties, bending the rules and antagonizing the virtuous legend (Steamboat) who won't screw the rotten bastard but won't take any shit from him either.

Bryan did a great job keeping the wrestling performance in the forefront along with the character performance with some masterfully applied holds that just ripped and stretched Punk. Bryan's European uppercuts and chops were sharp and hard-hitting all night. Both men worked the counters and transitions as smoothly and at a constant pace which kept the energy high for me especially the Cattle Mutilation spot. I gasped at the back suplex counter to the outside of the ring. The concrete bound fall looked so dangerous and painful like a momentum shifting moment in a lengthy match should.

Both Bryan and Punk have the gift of making _the simple special_ and the climactic moment on the top rope where Punk is trying to deliver Pepsi Plunge and Bryan is fighting to hook a superplex is further enhanced by the crowd cheering "YES!" and "NO!" respectively for each man's attempt to hit the game changer of the match. In the end, Bryan pulled off the superplex (YES!) which jarred Punk's entire body which Bryan had already stretched to hell. They worked some more back-and-forth pin-attempt counters in the finishing stretch until Punk got caught and had to tap out. Bryan is the one that ultimately humbled the corruptible snake.



Spoiler: Match Rating


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Just noticed I had One Night Stand 2005 in my dvd collection. Any thoughts on the show? Is it worth watching?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I stopped watching WWE from shortly after WM 23 to late 2010, so can you guys give me some matches/ppvs I need to watch from between them to catch up because judging by the roster, at some points, there must be a few classics in there. I've seen a lot of the WM matches but I'm on about other shows apart from Wrestlemania, and of course Raw/Smackdown/ECW/NXT/Superstars matches.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Sparta101 said:


> Just noticed I had One Night Stand 2005 in my dvd collection. Any thoughts on the show? Is it worth watching?


Definitely worth watching, the crowd is unbelievable from start to finish and there were some really good matches. Jericho/Storm, Benoit/Eddie and Mysterio/Psichosis are all really good and I also enjoyed Awesome/Tanaka. There are a few great promos as well in the show from RVD and Heyman.

I wasn't watching wrestling during the original ECW and have just watched bits and pieces but I still really really enjoyed this show


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I stopped watching WWE from shortly after 2m 23 to late 2010, so can you guys give me some matches/ppvs I need to watch from between them to catch up because judging by the roster, at some points, there must be a few classics in there. I've seen a lot of the WM matches but I'm on about other shows apart from Wrestlemania, and of course Raw/Smackdown/ECW/NXT/Superstars matches.


*2009*

Ricky Steamboat vs. Chris Jericho - Backlash 
Edge vs. John Cena - Backlash 
Jeff Hardy vs. Edge - Extreme Rules
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho - The Bash
CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy - Pretty much the entire series of matches they had. Really enjoyed this feud.
D-Generation X vs. Legacy - Summerslam
John Cena vs. Randy Orton - Bragging Rights

John Morrison vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, September '09.
Triple H vs. John Cena - Raw, 6 days before Bragging Rights


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WrestleMania XXVIII*

*World Heavyweight Championship*: Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - **

Randy Orton vs. Kane - **3/4

*Intercontinental Championship*: Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show - **1/4

Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos vs. Beth Phoenix & Eve - **1/4

*Hell in a Cell*: The Undertaker vs. Triple H - ****1/4

Team Teddy vs. Team Johnny - ***

*WWE Championship*: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ***3/4

John Cena vs. The Rock - ***1/2


My feelings are about the same, although I did _enjoy_ the event a lot more now.

-In a strange way, I think it was better that the WHC match was so short. Had it been an actual match, given the apathy towards the buildup and focus on other matches, it probably would have only gotten 8-10 minutes (if that). DB simply not being ready and being blind-sided, to me anyway, maintains the importance of the title, offers a great surprise, and keeps the feud going. And as everyone saw, Bryan took Sheamus to the limit at ER, which shows what he can do when he's not surprised. Of course, in a perfect world, this match would have been given a proper buildup and 10-20 minutes to go wild. But I had no problem with this being a squash.

-The Orton/Kane series has done little for me. I just don't think they gel. There's just something through the motions about these matches. I should love them, I just don't.

-Show/Cody was entertaining for the time it got.

-The divas match was surprsingly not bad at all. Entertaning given that they go 7 minutes.

-UT/HHH is the best match of the year (so far). They start by brawling around the cell, then I love the callback to the spinebuster on the steps, UT powering out of the hell's gate. The booking with HBK wanting to call the match out of pity, UT locking him in the move, the double-team scm and pedigree, them reaching for their weapons, all of it...amazing. I never thought 30 minutes could go by so quickly. 

As someone who loved their match last year, I honestly never thought they could come close. I'm one of those who thought that the HBK match at WM 26 was a far cry from 25 and assumed the rematch will fall short. I was wrong. This is a great rematch, a great continuation of the match from 27, but it also works on its own. I love this story comes full circle with UT getting his revenge.

As for everyone who's unsure of what "End of an Era" means...It means this will be the last time you see two major attitude era guys against each other. The last four wms have had UT/HHH and UT/HBK matches, HBK/Flair (which is connected to this arc).

To me, it's just 1/4 star short of WM 27, simply because UT had to get his revenge, so the double team move, while amazing, was not quite as compelling as HHH's tombstone. Still, a great series and the best match of the year.

-Team Teddy vs. Team Johnny is fun, plain and simple. 

-Punk/Jericho really suffers from an awkward start. I tried to rationalize Punk's previous feud with Ace for the sudden stip, and Jericho trying to get him dq-ed...but I still don't like it. This feud started off as "who's the best in the world," and just collapsed into some really lame "your dad's a drunk, blah blah blah" business.

This match should have been kept pure. You could have a title match with a serious grudge, and not add stupid gimmicks. Look at Cena/Batista at WM 26. This late addition stipulation was not what the match should be.

However, once Y2J realizes that isn't going to work, and they just wrestle...the match is great. It's crisp, exciting, technical, and I love the finishing stretch. Punk lowering his head to avoid those kneeshots from Jericho at the end is realistic and cool. At least it finishes on a high note, but the beginning is too awkward.

-Funny how expectations can change how you view the quality of a match. For a match announced a year in advance, build up heavily, promoted as the biggest match of all time...it's a letdown.

Having watched it for a second time, without any of that hype, remembering that letdown, and just looking at it simply as the ME of WM, I very much enjoyed it.

The match is simple. Very simple. It's reminiscent of Cena's matches with Orton in that they're exciting but play it safe. There are some very nice surprises, like Cena turning the people's elbow into an stf attempt, catching Rock with an FU, and so on.

They both clashed nicely, the match was never boring, and strangely enough, I'm glad they went 30 minutes. Given the year-long build, 20 minutes just wouldn't have sufficed, even if the match was great. This is definitely the best WM ME since 24 or 23.

I wish Rocky hadn't kind of fucked up the RB at the end. That bothers me more than him winning. Which still smarts. 

The lesson learned to me is this: NO match should be announced a year in advance. NO match can live up to all this hype. Punk/Cena was announced a month in advance and they did more with the build and match then Rock/Cena did in a year.

To me, you can announce a match that far in advance, build it up, show a TV special on USA, have rappers perform for them, all in the effort to make the match feel special, but the match is only going to feel special...if it is. It felt like just a good WM main event, nothing more. Ignore the hype, look at the competitors, remember it's just a wrestling match, and you should enjoy it. I did.


Solid WM. As I always say, I would have liked to have seen more depth in the card. 15 minutes for the WHC, more time for Show/Cody, better backstage segments. The few they had were just weak. Still, a very entertaining show, made more entertaining now by the fact that I'm not expecting the main event to be the second coming.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Word said:


> Taboo Tuesday 2005
> 
> Ric Flair vs. Triple H - ***1/2
> 
> Shit load of blood. I've heard people praise this to the highest, even a few 5* flutters or even 'my personal favourite' match. Yeah I really enjoyed it but it wasn't anything mind blowing, Trips takes the offence for 10 minutes then Flair repeats the favour.


I don't remember much of the taboo tuesday match I may have to rewatch it, haven't seen it since the match happened nearly 7 years ago, but the Survivor Series LMS match is no less than 4 stars. Really loved that match and was probably the best Last Man Standing match of the era.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There are a couple of bonus matches on the UK edition of the wcw clash of the champions DVD, think one store in the us carries them too, so hopefully we get it soon...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I stopped watching WWE from shortly after WM 23 to late 2010, so can you guys give me some matches/ppvs I need to watch from between them to catch up because judging by the roster, at some points, there must be a few classics in there. I've seen a lot of the WM matches but I'm on about other shows apart from Wrestlemania, and of course Raw/Smackdown/ECW/NXT/Superstars matches.


The Jericho/HBK series of '08
Punk/Morrison and Morrison/Mysterio from SD mid '09
Punk/Morrison - ECW 9/4/07
Orton/HBK - Survivor Series '07
Backlash '07
Backlash '09
Legacy/DX series - Summerslam, Breaking Point and HIAC '09
Punk/Hardy series of mid '09
Cena/Trips - Raw late '09
Orton/Trips - LMS - Raw mid '09
Christian/Regal - ECW '09
Hardy/Trips - Cyber Sunday and No Mercy '08

Just some stuff off the top of my head.


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

Seeing as Silvervision is fucked, anyone know of an australian site where i can get wwe bluray's sent to the uk? (same region you see)


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

All the Mysterio/Punk and Mysterio/Jericho matches from 10 and 11 respectively.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Completely forgot about both of those series which is horrible because Jericho/Mysterio from The Bash is one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Hazaq (Apr 25, 2012)

Rate this match -


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

^ I have it at ***3/4. One of, if not the best TV match of '11.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Batista vs HHH - hell in a cell 2005

****1/2

Probably just me, but this a great match IMHO.


----------



## Hazaq (Apr 25, 2012)

Batista/HHH HIAC is the best HIAC for me.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Brye said:


> Completely forgot about both of those series which is horrible because Jericho/Mysterio from The Bash is one of my favorite matches ever.


Those matches probably all hit the four star range. I think some people have the Bash around ****3/4. Just proves Rey still got it despite the IWC moaning he's slow and whatnot.



The Bad Guy said:


> I don't remember much of the taboo tuesday match I may have to rewatch it, haven't seen it since the match happened nearly 7 years ago, but the Survivor Series LMS match is no less than 4 stars. Really loved that match and was probably the best Last Man Standing match of the era.


Gonna watch that match tonight. The problem with their cage match, that despite me enjoying it didn't really go anywhere. I wasn't drawn into this match thinking I'm watching something special, just a very good cage match. Whilst I like Joey Styles, he constantly overrated everything trying to put the match over too much. I know people have it high but I wouldn't feel bothered to watch it again any time soon.

On a side note, what do people think about the constant Punk hate lately? It's astonishing. He's having the best title run in a long while whilst adding credibility to the title for once. People are finding excuses about him, sand bagging, why is he calling spots, he's not all that in the ring nonsense.

I tell you now, the next IWC victim is Sheamus.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sheamus is already getting hate after being incredibly popular on here just last Summer.

And completely agreed that Rey still has it. Even before the injury in '11 he was putting on awesome matches.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Yeah he selling is poor at the moment, but I'm sure he'll improve. Once that RAW section got hold of something they'll never let it go.

*Survivor Series 2003*

Team Angle vs. Team Lesnar - ***1/2
Molly Holly vs. Lita - *3/4
Kane vs. Shane McMahon - **3/4
Bashams vs. Los Guerrero - **1/4
Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff - ****1/2
Undertaker vs. Vince McMahon - N/R
Goldberg vs. Triple H - **

Goldberg had one ugly WWE run and it didn't help that Trips and him had zero chemistry and was inevitable that he was going to win the title back as Trips can only go over a certain amount of times. I did really enjoy watching it from start to finish but match ratings wise it doesn't sound too interesting. The opener was so fun, and Austin/Bischoff was full of decent guys on the roster putting on a 30 minute masterclass. The gimmick matches helped break up the card but Taker/McMahon was awful. Having said that the boss of the company was certainly the best heel in the company at this time as was over the past few years, except for Trips in 2000, everyone hated him then, well me personally anyway.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really enjoyed both of the 5v5 from that show. The booking on the first one was really odd but it was still a good match. The Team Austin vs Team Bischoff one is great though. I liked Kane/Shane from that show as well.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

The booking was insanely shit, it was all about Angle & Lesnar but Angle gets lost half way through, Lesnar taps to Benoit and Big Show ends up losing out to the winners that were Benoit & Cena. Made no sense whatsoever. It didn't really put Benoit over making Lesnar tapped, no one cared, it made Cena look strong but he didn't get a title shot for another 15 months, just seemed all over the place. The only thing it did do was create an opener for WM between Cena and Show at WM XX but I'm sure it wasn't meant for that, just an assumption. If it sounds confusing to read it makes no sense watching it.

Regardless of the bullshit booking, I just took the match for what it was and thoroughly enjoyed it.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

Hazaq said:


> Rate this match -


I love this match.

Is it just me that thinks Tornado Tag's are better than Vanilla Tags?


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I dunno why but with the SD Survivor Series 2003 match, I despised that Hardcore Holly got disqualified even though the bell hadn't even rung to start the match. Have always despised that.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Hardcore Holly, out of all the wrestlers I have ever seen step into that ring his is right at the bottom of wrestlers I have never cared about. Liked him in Tough Enough when he battered that guy and he was legit upset the fucking baby but apart from that I feel the need to turn over every time he steps into the ring, extremely boring.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Brye said:


> I really enjoyed both of the 5v5 from that show. The booking on the first one was really odd but it was still a good match. The Team Austin vs Team Bischoff one is great though. I liked Kane/Shane from that show as well.


I love the Kane-Shane series probably more than I should admit... And it's one reason I like DVD over VHS, as it beats the crap out of either of the 10-man matches on that card.

Also, HUGE Rey fan, but am waiting to see if he still has it when he returns again.

Lastly, I've never been a Sheamus fan, & never will be. Almost-always reminds me of another word that starts with "Sh", & most Sheamus matches are chock-full of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Baldwin. said:


> I dunno why but with the SD Survivor Series 2003 match, I despised that Hardcore Holly got disqualified even though the bell hadn't even rung to start the match. Have always despised that.


Maybe because it meant his shit with Lesnar wasn't settled in a multiman match and had to instead main event the RR? I know I was fucking pissed that Lesnar Vs Holly happened one on one on PPV .


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

Selling the following WWE books and DVDs:

*A Lion's Tale - Chris Jericho*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694973759?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*Heartbreak & Triumph - Shawn Michaels*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694974293?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*WWE Armageddon 2005*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694974640?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*WWE Unforgiven 2003*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694975163?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*WWE Vengeance 2003*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694977391?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ECW One Night Stand 2005*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694980220?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*WWE WrestleMania 22*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694980622?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*WWE WrestleMania XX*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694980964?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


And ROH DVDs for anyone who's a fan:

*ROH Davey Richards: The American Wolf*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694969593?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ROH The Briscoe Brothers: The Baddest Tag Team on the Planet*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694970912?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ROH Eddie Edwards: Road to the Triple Crown*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694971178?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ROH Supercard Of Honor III*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694972086?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ROH Death Before Dishonor V Night 2*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694972695?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ROH Supercard Of Honor IV*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694972997?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

*ROH Fifth Year Festival Finale*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694973282?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


And lastly for any comics fans here, just in case:

*Batman: Knightfall Parts 1, 2 & 3 - Graphic Novels*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694973525?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

The past two days


----------



## Here To There (Apr 18, 2012)

The 2003 Survivor Series Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff match is my fave elimination match ever.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Here To There said:


> The 2003 Survivor Series Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff match is my fave elimination match ever.


J.R.'s commentary was on point during the final minutes. You just felt so bad for HBK and hated the crap out of Orton... seriously what WWE is missing.


----------



## Here To There (Apr 18, 2012)

I did hate Orton, but hated Batista the most cuz of the interference. Or maybe Bischoff the next night because he rubbed it in. A few said Austin should have stunnered HBK afterwards, but that would have been stupid. He went to task for Austin and got screwed. Not everyone has to get stunnered all the time.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Here To There said:


> I did hate Orton, but hated Batista the most cuz of the interference. Or maybe Bischoff the next night because he rubbed it in. A few said Austin should have stunnered HBK afterwards, but that would have been stupid. He went to task for Austin and got screwed. Not everyone has to get stunnered all the time.


Oh yeah the night after with Bischoff stomping on the "last" beer Austin left in the middle of the ring.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Hazaq said:


> Rate this match -


Jeez, If there were matches like that frequent on Raw I might watch it.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Hazaq said:


> Rate this match -


THAT was the match I was thinking of the other day. From Punk's worked shoot Raw no less. Now it's all coming back. Loved that match.



Brye said:


> ^ I have it at ***3/4. One of, if not the best TV match of '11.


Same rating came to my mind instantly though I haven't seen it since then.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Always nice to see the Mysterio/Jericho feud get some love. I equate that feud to the "Bourne" movies, in that they start off great, and somehow get better and better. Their match at Judgment Day was really good, Extreme Rules took it up a notch, the match on RAW advanced the storyline, and then we got an amazing blowoff at The Bash. The match on SD a couple of weeks later is just as good.

I really wish they'd release the RAW and SD match on DVD/Blu to complete the series. I've actually given very serious thought to picking up The Best PPV Matches of 2009-2010 at BB now that it's on sale for $7.99. I already own most of the matches on DVD, but I don't own Jericho/Mysterio from The Bash, own the previous two, and would really love to complete the series.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> I've actually given very serious thought to picking up The Best PPV Matches of 2009-2010 at BB now that it's on sale for $7.99. I already own most of the matches on DVD, but I don't own Jericho/Mysterio from The Bash, own the previous two, and would really love to complete the series.


I love this set!


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Its a fantastic trilogy, but I think their first bout at Judgment Day 2009 was the best during their refeud in the WWE.

- Vic


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Finished watching SummerSlam '03

Dudley Boyz vs. La Résistance for the Tag Team Championship - **
Undertaker vs. A-Train - ** 2/3
Shane McMahon vs. Eric Bischoff - ** 2/3 (Epic Coach heel turn is epic.)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Tajiri vs. Rhyno for the U.S. Championship - ****
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar for the WWE Championship - **** 3/3
Kane vs. Rob Van Dam - ** 1/3
Triple H vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kevin Nash vs. Shawn Michaels (Elimination Chamber) for the World Heavyweight Championship - *** (Really fast paced action the whole match with the awesome Goldberg/Jericho spear through the plexiglass spot but Triple H ruined the match by not even competing the whole match and winning with the sledgehammer. I understand he was a mega heel and that's what a evil heel would do by watching the others cripple themselves then taking the advantage at the end, but the finish really looked dumb.)

Overall: ***


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

I think the Royal Rumble 2012 PPV as a whole is the worst RR event I've ever seen.

The actual RR match itself is definitely the worst I've ever seen. Rushed piece of shit match.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Any thought on Vengeance 2005? I don't think I've watched it since I saw it live about seven years ago, and my memory is a bit hazy on most of the PPV. I remember it being pretty good but that may have just been because I was a mark back than, and enjoyed anything the WWE threw at me. I feel like watching through it again sometime this weekend, and wanting to know how high to get my hopes up? Christian/Jericho/Cena looks to be on paper a great match, I've heard people say that Michaels Angle say they had a match better than their Mania one, and from what I remember Benjamin and Carlito put out a nice ten minute IC title match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Vengeance 2005 is the greatest single-branded PPV of all-time in my opinion. It was one of the first in-depth reviews I did for any show, here's a little rundown:

*Vengeance 2005*

Carlito vs Benjamin: **** 1/4*
Victoria vs Hemme: *DUD*
Kane vs Edge: **** 1/4*
Michaels vs Angle: ***** 1/4*
Cena vs Christian vs Jericho: **** 3/4*
Batista vs Triple H: ***** 3/4*


Thoughts: Greatest single brand PPV of all time, bar none. Save for the shitty women's match (I'm seriously starting to think we should factor the divas matches out of our overall ratings) everything on this card was not only good, but ROCK SOLID. The opener set the pace, although Shelton's momentum started to fizzle around this time, and Kane vs Edge surprisingly told a good story, unlike Kane's last Vengeance match. Michaels vs Angle II, alot of people will disagree with me on this, but I absolutely LOVED it, right down to the finish that everybody else hates. At the time I thought it was better than the WM match, but now I have it just a bit lower. The WWE Championship match was one of the more underrated matches of 2005, of course overshadowed by the main event, which is one of my top 10 favourite all time matches. The HIAC is my 2005 match of the year... An absolute star making performance here, and one of the biggest wars i've ever seen. Probably my favourite ending to a match ever, just 100 percent pure suspense.

*9/10*


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Geolink said:


> Finished watching SummerSlam '03
> 
> Dudley Boyz vs. La Résistance for the Tag Team Championship - **
> Undertaker vs. A-Train - ** 2/3
> ...


I might be missing something here but isn't a 1/3 33%? So Angle/Lesnar equates to 4 stars and 99%? Might as well call it the full 5, what's that 1% going to do?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

3/3 = 100% So in other words it would be five stars, yeah.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Need help guys....

I have been making a list of WWF/WWE PPVs to get and I think I'm close to being done. I'm looking for some WWF/WWE PPVs.... lets say from 2002-present... that has at least 3-4 hidden gems. I have WM 19 and 20 though. Im looking for good to great 3.5 star or above matches that are not.... repeat NOT.... on a WWE comp or a best of. I know Im missing some damn good PPVs the last decade with 3-4 awesome matches (or more) that are not on a comp. I think I got everything I need/want PPV wise from the 1980's-end of the attitude era but my collection from 2002 on could be much better. I have some damn good ones but could use a few more. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Anyone know any shoot DVD's that are worth picking up? Was looking at the Kurt Angle, Kevin Nash & Scott Hall ones but unsure what to get, any help?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Need help guys....
> 
> I have been making a list of WWF/WWE PPVs to get and I think I'm close to being done. I'm looking for some WWF/WWE PPVs.... lets say from 2002-present... that has at least 3-4 hidden gems. I have WM 19 and 20 though. Im looking for good to great 3.5 star or above matches that are not.... repeat NOT.... on a WWE comp or a best of. I know Im missing some damn good PPVs the last decade with 3-4 awesome matches (or more) that are not on a comp. I think I got everything I need/want PPV wise from the 1980's-end of the attitude era but my collection from 2002 on could be much better. I have some damn good ones but could use a few more. Thanks in advance.


Summerslam 2002
Survivor Series 2002
Vengeance 2002
Vengeance 2003
Judgement Day 2005
Armageddon 2006
One Night Stand 2005
One Night Stand 2006
Vengeance 2005
Unforgiven 2006

To name a few. I don't know about this comp situation, I'm can't be bothered looking into it theres a fair few there you can look up and see for yourself.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Word said:


> I don't know about this comp situation, I'm can't be bothered looking into it theres a fair few there you can look up and see for yourself.


haha understandable...figured some of you might know off the top of your head....thanks though


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I'd be surprised if any of the One Night Stand matches were featured elsewhere tbh.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*WWE Falls Count Anywhere DVD Cover *


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

That fucking owns.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That cover is awesome. Hope the listings come out soon.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Need help guys....
> 
> I have been making a list of WWF/WWE PPVs to get and I think I'm close to being done. I'm looking for some WWF/WWE PPVs.... lets say from 2002-present... that has at least 3-4 hidden gems. I have WM 19 and 20 though. Im looking for good to great 3.5 star or above matches that are not.... repeat NOT.... on a WWE comp or a best of. I know Im missing some damn good PPVs the last decade with 3-4 awesome matches (or more) that are not on a comp. I think I got everything I need/want PPV wise from the 1980's-end of the attitude era but my collection from 2002 on could be much better. I have some damn good ones but could use a few more. Thanks in advance.


From 2002-Present ? Non Big 4 gems include:

Vengeance 2003
Backlash 2004
Backlash 2005
One Night Stand 2005
Vengeance 2005
One Night Stand 2006
Unforgiven 2006
Armageddon 2006
No Mercy 2008
Backlash 2009
TLC 2010
Elimination Chamber 2011
Money in the Bank 2011
Vengeance 2011
Extreme Rules 2012

Off the top of my head, probably missing a few.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

WahhWahh said:


> I think the Royal Rumble 2012 PPV as a whole is the worst RR event I've ever seen.
> 
> The actual RR match itself is definitely the worst I've ever seen. Rushed piece of shit match.


Yeah it was disappointing... only reason I got it was because of the $7.99 price.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Word said:


> I might be missing something here but isn't a 1/3 33%? So Angle/Lesnar equates to 4 stars and 99%? Might as well call it the full 5, what's that 1% going to do?





Yeah1993 said:


> 3/3 = 100% So in other words it would be five stars, yeah.


Yeah I'm a noob at ratings. My bad.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Here To There said:


> The 2003 Survivor Series Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff match is my fave elimination match ever.


For me, its team Smackdown vs team RAW from 2005.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I jut got done watching Eddie Guerrero V JBL at Judgment Day 2004. EG lost a crazy amount of blood. What a great brawl. I dont throw the stars out very often but I'd call this a **** at least if not **** 1/2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sparta101 said:


> For me, its team Smackdown vs team RAW from 2005.


One of the first, and most cerntainly the last time a Survivor Series match actually meant anything, was built up amazingly and was a great quality match. **** for me, IMO. The last time a Survivor Series 5v5 match meant anything before this was 2001 but that was only because of The Invasion, without that then god knows how long it was.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Survivor Series tradition is pretty much dead.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Best Buy is far from where I live and I checked two Wal-Marts close to me and they only have WM 28 on DVD so I got fed up and ordered the Blu-Ray version off Amazon for $18. Not bad.

- Vic


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of Blurays, with the whole Silvervision thing going on atm (not selling any new releases from WM 28 onwards until they HOPEFULLY get sorted out), I've noticed a bunch of people asking about sites in Australia that will ship to the UK, because their Bluray region is the same as ours. Can I not get them from America now? I bought WM 27 on Bluray earlier this year from WWEshop.com (was dirt cheap and I had a voucher that I won lol) and it plays on my PS3. Have they started region locking discs now or something?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Speaking of Blurays, with the whole Silvervision thing going on atm (not selling any new releases from WM 28 onwards until they HOPEFULLY get sorted out), I've noticed a bunch of people asking about sites in Australia that will ship to the UK, because their Bluray region is the same as ours. Can I not get them from America now? I bought WM 27 on Bluray earlier this year from WWEshop.com (was dirt cheap and I had a voucher that I won lol) and it plays on my PS3. Have they started region locking discs now or something?


I seem to remember reading stuff on WWEDVDNEWS last year from people saying that Wrestlemania 27 Blu Ray appeared to be region free, as was Extreme Rules and some others. 

I'm dying to get my hands on Mania 28 blu ray, so if anyone can comfirm that it's region free then I'll buy it right now. Hopefully it'll work on my blu ray player; I don't have a PS3.

EDIT - WWEShop states clearly that the blu ray is Region 1, so I guess no luck there


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn, seems they are region locking shit. Hope SV can get their shit sorted lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What's the purpose of region locking? I don't quite understand what it achieves? Lol


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Damn, seems they are region locking shit. Hope SV can get their shit sorted lol.


I've been reading loads on Google this morning and it looks like the best place for UK folks to get it from is Australia. According to everything I've read, it'll work no problem because Australia and UK are both Region B.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, I know about Australia, was just hoping I could still get them from America at least too, since there are things on wweshop.com I could order at the same time that I can't get anywhere else . Just gonna wait now for SV to either sort it out or announce they aren't able to sell them any more and then I'll have to import them from AussieLand. Wonder if it will be cheaper to get someone over there to buy them and post them to me.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Probably will be cheaper if you can find someone cos at least that way they can mark it as a gift so you avoid customs. Luckily for me I have a region free player so I can just keep buying the US releases as I always do, only way the SV problems affect me is for the PPV BDs that don't get released in the US.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

On the talk of classic Survivor Series matches, the last one that really meant something was probably the Raw / Smackdown one in 2005 but my favorite is still by far the 2001 Winner Take All.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> Probably will be cheaper if you can find someone cos at least that way they can mark it as a gift so you avoid customs. Luckily for me I have a region free player so I can just keep buying the US releases as I always do, only way the SV problems affect me is for the PPV BDs that don't get released in the US.


Looks like I'll be getting someone to buy them for me then. Thank god I know people in Australia lol.

Wish the PS3 was easily hackable to make region free, like the Wii . Might have to save up and get a region free bluray player at some point. Maybe.

My favourite Survivor Series elimination match is the massive 20 man (10 tag teams, I think) match from one of the early ones. Heard people praise it for a couple of years but only got around to watching it about a year ago. Goes like, 40 minutes and is fucking awesome.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just to throw it out there, I've had a look and jbhifionline.com.au seems to be the cheapest in terms of shipping to the UK.


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> What's the purpose of region locking? I don't quite understand what it achieves? Lol


Region locking was a standard that the movie studios wanted once DVD goes away. Some movies see a home release in one part of the world where it's seeing a theatrical run in another. As opposed to having high definition copies of blu rays flying overseas to undermine a theatrical run, region locking allows movie studios to do both simultaneously if they wanted.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

KingCal if you do need an Australian, I'll be happy to help out. 



*NWA - Starrcade 1985 - 28/11*

Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard
*****

*NWA - Great American Bash 1990*

The Midnight Express vs The Southern Boys
****1/4


----------



## PowerandGlory (Oct 17, 2011)

*British Bulldog vs Owen Hart*

just watched their match for the first ever european championship. it was a really entertaining match and one im suprised i dont remember


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Clique said:


> Undertaker has had an incredible string of classics at WrestleMania in the last five years. How would you guys rank his matches from WM23 - WM27? I say
> 
> *1. Taker/HBK WM25
> 2. Taker/HBK WM26
> ...


That's how I would rank them too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: British Bulldog vs Owen Hart*



PowerandGlory said:


> just watched their match for the first ever european championship. it was a really entertaining match and one im suprised i dont remember


People have asked the question about what is the best heel vs. heel match ever in WWE history and this match is probably my answer. Both men were so athletically gifted and they displayed that in this match with the counter holds and kip-ups. Owen as he often did in his matches embellished his heel character work all over this one. Bulldog tried the fair wrestling game with his tag partner/brother-in-law but Owen introduced the dirty tricks and Bulldog answered accordingly. The pace was breakneck, loved the counter wrestling and the close, frequent near falls. This was an outstanding wrestling match and a great introduction to a new championship.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: British Bulldog vs Owen Hart*



PowerandGlory said:


> just watched their match for the first ever european championship. it was a really entertaining match and one im suprised i dont remember


my memory is terrible sometimes, was this a raw match?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Yes, and it's one of the best Raw matches ever at that. It's also on the Hart Family Anthology and Raw 15th Anniversary sets.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that match. Also love that they didn't JUST go out there and do fancy moves and counters, but they had a really nice little story with both guys being friends/tag partners/family and heels, and then both of them eventually devolving into just heels and forgetting about liking the other guy, which results in them doing ANYTHING to win, regardless of what it might to do their friendship. Can't think of a better Raw match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I totally agree Cal. Owen/Bulldog is a highly character driven match + you get the great athleticism and breakneck paced wrestling. The match is a beauty to watch build from start to finish.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Oddly enough I watched that match the other day and really enjoyed it. I really need to watch Raws from '97. Not necessarily the whole shows but the stuff with Austin, Owen, Bulldog, etc. I've seen most of the February, March and April ones but that's it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye, get on Austin/Michaels vs. Owen/Bulldog from 05/26/1997. (Y)


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

On the subject of great Survivor Series matches, who cares about the circa-"invasion" stuff? Who cares about 2005?! If you want a good elimination match, look to 2006. Team DX vs. Team Rated RKO is amazing! It starts b/c the crowd chants for Punk, which leads to Trips allowing him to start the DX "RU ready?" bit. Then, HBK eliminates someone super-fast. (I forget now who, & I'm not sure he ever knew. Then, he poses with Melina, who isn't looking, & thinks he's Morrison.

AMAZING match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> Brye, get on Austin/Michaels vs. Owen/Bulldog from 05/26/1997. (Y)


I've heard awesome things about that match but never managed to watch it, will do. (Y)

Just watched the Canadian Stampede 5v5 match and absolutely loved it. Hadn't seen it in about 3 years.

Gonna try to give that tag match a watch today and the four way after the Rumble in '97. I've heard good things about that too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Final Four match is incredible. Don't think any 4 way match even comes close to it. Amazing how well they worked the match while still having the ridiculous over the top rope stipulation.

1997 WWF is my second favourite year ever. Main event scene was awesome and had plenty of depth to it, while the midcard was entertaining a lot of the time too (though did feature some fucking garbage lol). Tag division was... well they had a bunch of tag teams, but outside of Owen/Bulldog and random main eventers teaming up (Austin/HBK, Austin/Foley etc) it was fairly bad .


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Anyone watched the Flair Definitive Collection and/or the Macho Man set? I ordered them both yesterday, and they looked pretty good. Was also going to order Decade of Decadence, but it wasn't in stock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Savage set is a ton of fun. Plenty of good matches on there.

Flair set, while it has nothing on his first dvd, is still really good. Great documentary, and a bunch of really fun matches and a couple of high end stuff too. Ultimate Collection blows it away though. One of the top DVD sets ever released for sheer match quality (arguably something like 5 ***** matches on it lol).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked the first Flair set much better but I love that the 2nd one had his whole retirement speech/segment on it.

LEAVE THE MEMORIES ALONE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair/HBK was ***** then Flair wrestled again and it went down to ***1/2. He should have LEFT THE MEMORIES ALONE.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I didn't see Money in the Bank 2011 in full. I have seen a couple of matches of it, but is it worth getting the event on dvd?


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

mk92071 said:


> Anyone watched the Flair Definitive Collection and/or the Macho Man set? I ordered them both yesterday, and they looked pretty good. Was also going to order Decade of Decadence, but it wasn't in stock.


Don't have any Flair sets for some weird reason but the Macho Man set is fuckin awesome. You will not get bored of it and almost all of his great matches and feuds are on there. My only complaint is there aren't any slimjim commercials on his DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I didn't see Money in the Bank 2011 in full. I have seen a couple of matches of it, but is it worth getting the event on dvd?


YES. SD MITB is great, Raw is... kinda meh but I guess it could be entertaining. Show/Henry is good stuff, Christian/Orton is really good (though one of their weaker matches, which says a lot about their series), and Punk/Cena is, well, Punk/Cena. Terrific.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I honesty thought Kofi killed Swagger when they both fell and it looked like his knee landed on Swagger's throat.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Flair/HBK was ***** then Flair wrestled again and it went down to ***1/2. He should have LEFT THE MEMORIES ALONE.


You removed a 5 star match from your list because Flair decided to wrestle again? Bit extreme going from the full 5 to ***1/2 too. Some people flutter around ****1/2 to ****3/4 but not decrease it that badly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Word said:


> You removed a 5 star match from your list because Flair decided to wrestle again? Bit extreme going from the full 5 to ***1/2 too. Some people flutter around ****1/2 to ****3/4 but not decrease it that badly.


I was making a joke . Austin101 took his rating down for the match as soon as Flair wrestled again . I originally had it at ***1/4 and went down to ***1/2 on a re-watch simply because it didn't hold up very well. And I did that before he came out of retirement too .


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Owen vs Bulldog is indeed awesome. It had a little of everything from athleticism to intensity, good story of both guys going all out while attempting to stay respectful. Perfect match.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Ric Flair Ultimate Collection & Randy Savage collections are must haves for fans of old school matches. Any Ric Flair collection (including the Horsemen) is worth having in your archives.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Anyone else think that John Cena/Edge TLC at Unforgiven 06 is an awesome match? Some brutal spots, a hot crowd, and a sick sick (Edge going through the two tables spot) ending to end a long well built rivalry. Put both men over big time, and it was there performances that did it, not the fact that JR doing a great job on commentary.

*Unforgiven 2006*

Nitro/Hardy ****1/4*
Kane/Umaga **1/2*
Sprit Squad/Highlanders ****
DX/McMahon's + Show ****3/4*
Trish/Lita *****
Carlito/Orton ***1/2*
Cena/Edge *****1/2*

Hardy and Nitro was a fun match on Jeff's PPV return, hated the ending though, a superstar should not be knocked out for 3 after a throw to the head of a boot.

Umaga & Kane was just a big brawl that went nowhere, pretty disappointing, Umaga looked very strong going into the Cena series later that year, but I still think he should of won clean and destroyed Kane.

Tag match was just a standard tag match, nothing wrong with it, nothing to see though.

HIAC was great fun, one of the funnest HIAC's I have seen, great performances from all 5 men. I don't think we could of expected anything better given DX's 3 opponents, but they gave as good as they got and put on a great brutal bloody show. I hear some people don't like the fact this was a 'comedy' HIAC (nor do I agree with it that much) but the feud was about DX's (very poor) comedy so it should be incorporated in the ending of the feud. And yeah a great way to end a feud that I enjoyed more than others.

Lita/Trish was a great bow out to Trish and Lita at that who left 2 months later, they put on there best match together and the crowd got really into it which was nice to see as it was Trish's last match.

Orton/Carlito was just a standard match with a great ending, this was one of the first of many RKO's out of nowhere which I still love even to this day.

And Cena/Edge as I have said was fantastic.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

KingCal said:


> I was making a joke . Austin101 took his rating down for the match as soon as Flair wrestled again . I originally had it at ***1/4 and went down to ***1/2 on a re-watch simply because it didn't hold up very well. And I did that before he came out of retirement too .


I was going to say, got your smiley back I see!

Austin101 is firmly alive at wwedvdnews. I gotta admit I do miss him as he was the most stubborn poster of all time, he never thought he was wrong. Everyone looked forward to his reviews and match ratings though, I'll give him that. 

Oh he did do play by play reviews and I hate them. Austin goes with the left hand, Rocky back with a right, clothesline, now out to the outside, brawling, into the steel steps, what a match! Austin now back in the ring, the referee starts the 10 count..... the most annoying reviews ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Word said:


> I was going to say, got your smiley back I see!
> 
> Austin101 is firmly alive at wwedvdnews. I gotta admit I do miss him as he was the most stubborn poster of all time, he never thought he was wrong. Everyone looked forward to his reviews and match ratings though, I'll give him that.
> 
> Oh he did do play by play reviews and I hate them. Austin goes with the left hand, Rocky back with a right, clothesline, now out to the outside, brawling, into the steel steps, what a match! Austin now back in the ring, the referee starts the 10 count..... the most annoying reviews ever.


Seabs brought it back for me . Finally got an Admin on my payroll .

Austin101 went insane on WWEDVDNews too. Deleted all his reviews and claimed he wasn't going to do any more until Vince inducted Savage into the HOF :lmao.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

You're welcome for the smiley Cal. :side:

Edit: I guess my post didn't do anything. :side:

I love Unforgiven '06

Nitro/Hardy - ***1/2
Umaga/Kane - ** (fun match)
SS/Highlanders - **
DX/McMahons & Show - ***1/2 (Hate the booking once DX makes their comeback but up until then it's great. Really good beatdowns on DX)
Trish/Lita - ***1/4
Carlito/Orton - *** (solid little match)
Cena/Edge - ****1/4

Really like that show. Might even watch it once I finish watching the May '08 episodes of iMPACT. I know what you're wondering, why the fuck did he buy the '08 season of iMPACT? But it was really cheap and I'm hoping for some good tag stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not as high on Edge/Cena TLC as most. Around ***1/2 on last watch. Still their best match along with the LMS in 09(?). Thought the rest of their matches were pretty trash.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like the LMS from Backlash '09. Didn't care for their '06 matches (other than TLC) but I didn't hate the Summerslam one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watching Survivor Series 01 for the hell of it. Regal Vs Tajiri is an awesome little 5 minute match. Stiff kicks, stiff elbows, some blood, and cool counters. Immunity Battle Royal is pretty fun too. Kidman takes one hell of a fall away slam from Bradshaw to get eliminated. Sucks that Test one, can't believe that they tried again and again and again to push that guy. Albert should have won instead.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I was baffled when Test won that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lance Storm probably should have won imo, being realistic. But then again, he got a win over The Rock to earn a job a few weeks later. So he's done something Cena hasn't .


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Edge/Cena TLC Unforgiven 06 is the only match of Edge vs Cena I will watch. They wrestled too much for my liking anyway.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge/Cena and Orton/Cena are two of the worst and most overdone series in recent memory. And they hardly ever had good matches together (though the best Orton/Cena match is pretty damn great. NWO 08 for those who don't already know). HHH/Orton too. In fact... all 3 series were long, boring as shit, and only had 2 matches from each worth watching .

Edge/Cena - TLC UF 06 and LMS BL 09
Orton/Cena - NWO 08 and I Quit BP 09
Orton/HHH - LMS NM 07 and LMS Raw 09


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Summerslam 2011:
CM Punk vs John Cena: ****1/4 crowd is red hot in this. That's because wrestling was actually exciting at the time. Oh, the days.
Orton vs Christian ****1/2 this is definitely my favourite match of the Orton/Christian series, but the only one I've rewatched. Everything else is tainted with the memory of me internally pleading with the forces that be, to please just let Christian win just this once. Apparently the OTL match was a clinic, but I doubt I can watch it again and truly enjoy it lol.


Mr.Limelight said:


> *Anyone else think that John Cena/Edge TLC at Unforgiven 06 is an awesome match?* Some brutal spots, a hot crowd, and a sick sick (Edge going through the two tables spot) ending to end a long well built rivalry. Put both men over big time, and it was there performances that did it, not the fact that JR doing a great job on commentary.


No.

I do remember loving it, but right now all I can feel is extreme irritation, because the last time I thought about this match I was watching Cena Sr gush about how "both men were champions that night!!!!!!!!1111". Ugh. Should have never watched that lousy My Life doc.

It's my favourite of the Edge/Cena series I think, but I haven't watched the LMS in a long time either.

Hold on, Edge vs Cena was boring? i c.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Orton/Cena, wow how many times was that shoved down our throats? Totally forgot about Cena vs Edge LMS, that gets ****1/4 all day from me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I really like the LMS from Backlash '09. Didn't care for their '06 matches (other than TLC) but I didn't hate the Summerslam one.


Am I the only one who thinks their Royal Rumble match is rather underrated? It's nowhere near the quality of TLC or the LMS but it's a good enough match to me. And Cena had an awesome entrance. The finish is disappointing, though. Made Edge look like a joke, similar to Alberto del Rio last year at Night of Champions with Ricardo trying to get involved but failing and then Cena going for the STFU.

Just watched Austin/HHH at No Way Out 2001. Awesome match, I was damn sure that Austin was going to win so the result came as a shock to me.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

My opinion on that Austin/HHH match has gone down so much on rewatch. The 1st fall was going ok until the ridiculous finish. It wouldn't be fair of me to completely slate the Angle/HBK ending at Vengeance and give HHH/Austin a pass. In fact it might be slightly worse because Trips is even less of a high flyer than Angle. 2nd fall would've probably been good as a standalone match but in this instance it adversely affected the 3rd fall because of the amount of violence in the street fight. 3rd fall was awesome though I must admit and as a match on its own would've been stellar. Ending was booked really well also.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingCal said:


> Edge/Cena and Orton/Cena are two of the worst and most overdone series in recent memory. And they hardly ever had good matches together (though the best Orton/Cena match is pretty damn great. NWO 08 for those who don't already know). HHH/Orton too. In fact... all 3 series were long, boring as shit, and only had 2 matches from each worth watching .
> 
> Edge/Cena - TLC UF 06 and LMS BL 09
> Orton/Cena - NWO 08 and I Quit BP 09
> Orton/HHH - LMS NM 07 and LMS Raw 09


I think I agree with everything in this post, though I did like Edge/Cena in 2006 no doubt. I also agree on the matches being the best in the feuds. Here's how I rate them: 


Edge/Cena:
LMS: ****1/2
TLC: ****1/4

Orton/Cena:
BP09: ****1/4
NWO08: ****

Orton/HHH:
LMS NM07: ****1/4
LMS Raw: ***1/4 (This might be the only one I'm not sure about, but I'll need to figure the ratings for the rest of the series before I'm sure on it).

Also on Punk/Cena and Orton/Christian PPV (and the first SD match in Orton/Christian) matches:

Punk/Cena:
MITB: ****1/2
SS: ****1/4

Orton/Christian:
SD: ****
OTL: ****1/2
CP: ***
MITB: ***3/4
SS: ****1/2

As far as matches go, Orton/Christian is probably Orton's best series ever besides his matches with Taker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't like the "I Quit" match between Orton and Cena. It's a lot like Miz/Cena at OTL. Orton tortures the living hell out of Cena but then SuperCena goes in "angry" mode and beats him with the STF. I like their SummerSlam 07 match, though.

I'm not great at rating matches but I saw Wrestlemania 21 in it's entirety a couple of days ago and so I figured I might as well leave the ratings here:

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio ***1/2
Money in the Bank ****
Undertaker vs Randy Orton ****
Trish Stratus vs Christy Hemme **
Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels ****1/4
Akebono vs Big Show *
JBL vs John Cena **1/2
Triple H vs Batista ***


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Miz/Cena suffers from being a copy of Orton/Cena... except Miz had Riley as well.

But Orton/Cena, Orton gave a fucking amazing performance... much better than Miz's might I add. Orton just looked so sinister and evil, showing absolutely no remorse and just constantly beating down Cena. I also think it did a great job in telling the story of just how resilient Cena is and how he won't quit no matter how much pain he's in.

Now whether that is a good thing or not is subjective, but they portrayed that story perfectly. Yeah the ending sucked with Cena going into superman mode and brushing Orton aside like nothing once he got the upper hand, but it was quite an interesting match-up.

However I was only going based off of Cal's post when posting that. Cena/Orton SS07 I remember loving. Here's my rating for it, though I need to re-watch it as it's been awhile:

Cena/Orton Summerslam: ****1/4

And it's above the BP match as well, so I'd say Orton/Cena's top 2 matches for me are the Summerslam match, followed by BP. Both are amazing matches imo, but for very different reasons.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Cena vs Orton has been done to death. I do like the No Way Out match though. A good solid heel finish, of course it sticks in my craw that they didn't just have the match at WM with a clean finish. A triple threat match aint what anyone wanted to see.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Made me :lmao at one of the Royal Rumble matches where Orton and Cena attempted an "epic" stare down and the fans didn't give a flying fuck :lmao.

Hate the Orton/Cena SS 07 match. Their 09 one was even worse.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Just watching Survivor Series 01 for the hell of it. Regal Vs Tajiri is an awesome little 5 minute match. Stiff kicks, stiff elbows, some blood, and cool counters. Immunity Battle Royal is pretty fun too. Kidman takes one hell of a fall away slam from Bradshaw to get eliminated. Sucks that Test one, can't believe that they tried again and again and again to push that guy. Albert should have won instead.


My favorite Survivor Series and one of my all time fav PPVs.


----------



## Save Us.Charisma (Jan 27, 2009)

Whay do you guys think on the comment saying that the NWO '01 is one of the best WWE PPV of all time? I'm just watching the 2001 year and I don't know what to expect of this event.


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

I was a fan of the Orton/Cena series. All the matches were different. Iirc the SummerSlam 2009 one being overbooked like crazy, but I enjoyed that. The worst match between the two was in Hell in a Cell, I consider it the worst HIAC match of all time. Haven't seen the Iron man. The NWO, SummerSlam matches were great too.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

The Hell in a cell match was actually their best match in that feud outside of that I quit which I really liked. Their Summerslam and Ironman matches were pieces of shit though.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Started up my Raw project again after over 7-8-9 months of delay. Took a while to get back into things because of the big file hosts going down and the MM section basically turning to shit so I turned to PB and oddly enough they had the complete '98 year there. Watching every Raw/SD! from '98 - '05 as well as PPVs to fill what I missed. Probably gonna recap the last few years as well. Once I'm done I'm gonna do '93-'97 since it's too late to go back now.

Anyways, just got to WM14. Never did ratings on RR or IYH: NWO, but will later.

*Wrestlemania 14 - **1/2*

_15 Team Battle Royal - ****
-Nothing bad, just not that great. Cool to see the Road Warriors come back and take this BR though.

Taka Michinoku vs. Aguila (LHW Title) - **1/2*
-Aguila was extremely botchy in this match. Nothing felt natural. He looked rushed and his strikes were horrible. They looked like baby taps. Nothing more than a poorly execute spotfest.

HHH vs. Owen Hart(European Title) - *****
-The finish was very well executed with Chyna blinding Slaughter and low blowing Owen. THIS is how you book a heel faction.

Mero/Sable vs. Goldust/Luna - ***1/4*
-No one can deny how prominent the Mero/Sable saga was during this time and surprisingly enough Sable actually MADE this match for me. She did light years better than I thought she would and after being delayed the opportunity to get in there and kick some Luna ass she finally got it and went HAM. Thought she'd be ready to end it after the powerbomb, but went for a TKO. Well done. Hats of to Sable.

The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock (IC title) - **1/2*
-It's not that it was a bad match, it's the fact it didn't even last 5 minutes and then Shamrock's win is voided by a technicality. The best thing to come from all this is Rock's excommunication from The Nation by Farooq.

Cactus Jack/Chainsaw Charlie vs. New Age Outlaws (Dumpster Match/Tag titles) - ***1/4*
-Rather slow and uneventful until the later parts. Thought the finish was pretty unorthodox, but I still liked it.

Undertaker vs. Kane - ***3/4*
-LOVED the build in this feud, but the match failed to live up to the hype. The latter half was where things picked up with the great dive to the outside by Taker and side step by Kane sending Taker through the table. Kane no sold like hell though. I understand he was booked to be untouchable in this match, which is why he was on offense for 90% of it, but there was a leg drop by Taker after a tombstone that Kane just took. Didn't even flinch. Nothing that would ruin the match though. Thought the three tombstone finish to put Kane away was kind of anti-climatic, but it made sense.

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels (WWE Title) - ****3/4*
-Well paced, intense brawling executed spectacularly. Match started off with a quick and ruthless pace for roughly 10 minutes before it slowed down. I love when guys come out swinging with all they have. Things slowed down, HBK went on the offensive, strategically working the left leg. Austin got in bits of offense here and there, but Shawn had him until he tuned up the band. Austin reversed the superkick, Shawn reversed the stunner, Austin reversed another superkick, and then finally STUNNER! 1-2-3 - Attitude Era bEG1ns!!_​
Average card, but ended on a high note. Still a fun PPV.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

I absolutely LOVED the Edge-Cena series from that year, including the TLC match. On the other hand, can't think of a singles series Orton has been involved with against anyone that I liked.

Lastly, is it speaking ill of the dead to say Test shouldn't have won that match @ SS? I know it's not doing so to say Albert/Tensai should not have won anything, & should not be in televised matches now.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

My favorite Survivor Series match is The Wildcard Match from 1995, but I really enjoyed Team Angle Vs. Team Lesnar in 2003.



> Hate the Orton/Cena SS 07 match.


Ironically, I think that's still their best match although I liked their HIAC as well.

- Vic


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Vic Capri said:


> My favorite Survivor Series match is The Wildcard Match from 1995, but I really enjoyed Team Angle Vs. Team Lesnar in 2003.


IMO, not even the best one that night.


----------



## Zen (Nov 11, 2006)

Word said:


> Orton/Cena, wow how many times was that shoved down our throats? Totally forgot about Cena vs Edge LMS, that gets ****1/4 all day from me.


Edge/Orton is one of my favorite rivalries ever.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> IMO, not even the best one that night.


I thought the SD match was more fun to watch than the overrated Team Austin Vs. Team Bischoff match. It didn't help that they were using the "If Austin's team loses, he gets fired" angle since we all knew he was coming back anyway. I'm just glad Bischoff's team won because if HBK had beaten 3 guys all by himself, it would've been absolute horsesh*t.

- Vic


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Vic Capri said:


> I thought the SD match was more fun to watch than the overrated Team Austin Vs. Team Bischoff match. It didn't help that they were using the "If Austin's team loses, he gets fired" angle since we all knew he was coming back anyway. I'm just glad Bischoff's team won because if HBK had beaten 3 guys all by himself, it would've been absolute horsesh*t.
> 
> - Vic


1] You have that backwards; The other match was the overrated one. (Proof? It included Hardcore Holly, Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan & the overrated pair that found their way back, Lesnar & A-Train.)

2] I agree on the comments about Austin returning & HBK beating the guys by himself. However, knowing Steve would come back regardless made the match easier to enjoy as it went along, & something being horses--- doesn't rule-out WWE doing it anyway.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't have the heart to watch that Orton/Cena Iron Man match. I own the show but I have a horrible feeling that it isn't worth the time.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I think I watched Orton/Cena @Breaking Point at like 2am. Was mindfucked.


TJChurch said:


> I absolutely LOVED the Edge-Cena series from that year, including the TLC match. On the other hand, can't think of a singles series Orton has been involved with against anyone that I liked.
> 
> Lastly, is it speaking ill of the dead to say Test shouldn't have won that match @ SS? I know it's not doing so to say Albert/Tensai should not have won anything, & should not be in televised matches now.


Not even vs Christian?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> You have that backwards; The other match was the overrated one. (Proof? It included Hardcore Holly, Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan & the overrated pair that found their way back, Lesnar & A-Train.)


I know it doesn't sound good on paper, but they made it work. The quick eliminations at the start made the match exciting for me to watch.



> I don't have the heart to watch that Orton/Cena Iron Man match. I own the show but I have a horrible feeling that it isn't worth the time.


It's not. I've always been a fan of one hour Iron Man matches, but this was the pits. Not did Cena and Orton have a 30 second rest period after each fall (since their cardio sucks), but having only pinfalls and submissions count as falls robbed them and the fans of strategic planning.

- Vic


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Not even vs Christian?


Considering he shouldn't ever wrestle a televised 1-on-1 match either, no.

Also, in response to what VC said about the SS match, I'm not referring to how it might look "on paper". I have watched the match (in fact owning the DVD), & they didn't "make the match work"... If anything, it is work to stay awake through it.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

TGO™ said:


> Started up my Raw project again after over 7-8-9 months of delay. Took a while to get back into things because of the big file hosts going down and the MM section basically turning to shit so I turned to PB and oddly enough they had the complete '98 year there. Watching every Raw/SD! from '98 - '05 as well as PPVs to fill what I missed. Probably gonna recap the last few years as well. Once I'm done I'm gonna do '93-'97 since it's too late to go back now.


Doing something similar, except I'm starting at the very beginning of 97 (I wanted to get the start of DX/Attitude at least). But yeah, it's a chore, as much as I love watching it, lately I have just not had the ambition to.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> I don't have the heart to watch that Orton/Cena Iron Man match. I own the show but I have a horrible feeling that it isn't worth the time.


It's worth it to see Orton literally trying to blow Cena up lol.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Anyone got some thoughts on the Great American Bash of 05' ? I don't think I have ever seen it and if I hear nice things about it I might go and see it, download it. Rey/Eddie, Booker/Christian and MnM/LoD (new version with Heidenreich) look the most interesting. I assume Batista/JBL is just going to be a slugfest, a brawl, I mean how good could their chemistry possibly be?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GAB 05 is pretty trash outside of Eddie/Rey which is UBER AWESOME. Seriously one of my favourite matches ever. Not as much "great wrestling" as some of their other matches, but the storytelling is out of this world. Eddie is the greatest DICK in the world.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> Anyone got some thoughts on the Great American Bash of 05' ? I don't think I have ever seen it and if I hear nice things about it I might go and see it, download it. Rey/Eddie, Booker/Christian and MnM/LoD (new version with Heidenreich) look the most interesting. I assume Batista/JBL is just going to be a slugfest, a brawl, I mean how good could their chemistry possibly be?


Booker and Christian was good (way better than their snorefest matches in 2003) and I thoroughly enjoyed Hassan kicking the shit out of Hassan. Didn't care for Guerrero Vs. Mysterio again. The rest of the show sucked ass.

- Vic


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just got my Mysterio Biggest Little man set from Silvervision, can't wait to get started on it later looks like it has some brilliant matches


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

GAB 05 was crap, bar Eddie/Rey which is my favourite match of there 05 PPV series.

What do you all think of Cena/JBL I Quit match? I thought it a great match, *****1/4* and if only they had that match at WM it would of made Cena look tons better than there awfully boring match at WM 21. Cena's entrance in this match was WM worthy, he gave a great underdog performance and actually got a lot of offence in which people normally complain about him not doing enough.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

The I quit match is really good and yes, it's a million times better than their piece of shit mania match. Seriously still angers me when I think about that match.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Ending was awful in the Cena/JBL match as he was drafted to RAW straight after, so it didn't really make much sense.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

What is it exactly that annoys you about it? Is it the fact that he won and then went to RAW? Surely it would've been more stupid to have him lose the title straight away. They wanted him on RAW because it's their number one show and they wanted him as the face of the company. Also him saying "I quit" would've completely gone against his character.


----------



## dazzy666 (Sep 21, 2006)

does anyone know whats going on with silvervision pulling all their titles?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

dazzy666 said:


> does anyone know whats going on with silvervision pulling all their titles?


When i enquired about the new WVW Clash Of Champions DVD, i got this:

The last 3 pre-order titles have been temporarily removed from sale by the WWE, as yet we have no information as to when they will be reinstated. As soon as we have more information it will be posted on our website.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nothing but a bunch of rumours going around about SV atm. Hope they sort shit out soon. And speaking of SV, just bought SummerSlam 2011 on Bluray, currently on offer at £6.99. They have the Bret/HBK Rivalry set for £7.99 (Bluray) too atm. Only got SS though. Love Christian/Orton, thought Barrett/Bryan was really good (and EASILY Barrett's best match), and Punk/Cena was pretty tremendous in its own right. Extras on the Bluray are pretty good as well.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

A-DoubleBaby! said:


> What is it exactly that annoys you about it? Is it the fact that he won and then went to RAW? Surely it would've been more stupid to have him lose the title straight away. They wanted him on RAW because it's their number one show and they wanted him as the face of the company. Also him saying "I quit" would've completely gone against his character.


It's got nothing to do with Cena winning. JBL randomly quits, then stating that he was smart in doing so. Surely plan for him was to have another rematch or something because why would JBL just quit like that? 

Yeah he went to RAW because he was top face, everyone understands that but it made no sense regarding this match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was just like Batista when he quit against Cena; Cena was threatening to do something brutal to both of them so they quit before he could. Then he did it anyway (smashed the pipe into JBL's face, F-U'd Batista off a car through the stage). Both times made Cena look like a bit of a prick though, despite the fact he's supposed to be the nicest guy on earth and always tries to "rise above hate" .


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I think I've only ever seen 3 I Quit Matches

Cena/JBL
Cena/Dave
Rock/Mankind

All had shit endings. I remember watching Rock/Mankind at about 12 and even calling it bullshit then, would probably hate it even more watching it today.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Nothing but a bunch of rumours going around about SV atm. Hope they sort shit out soon. And speaking of SV, just bought SummerSlam 2011 on Bluray, currently on offer at £6.99. They have the Bret/HBK Rivalry set for £7.99 (Bluray) too atm. Only got SS though. Love Christian/Orton, thought Barrett/Bryan was really good (and EASILY Barrett's best match), and Punk/Cena was pretty tremendous in its own right. Extras on the Bluray are pretty good as well.


Loads more titles to be added to the sale tomorrow.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Blanchard/Magnum Starrcade 85 and Flair/Funk COTC 9 are must see classic I Quit matches. Also, Sting/Cactus Submit or Surrender is great too imo.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm not really a fan of "I Quit" matches because there's a high probability of the heel losing. It takes the excitement out of it. I think I've only ever seen 1 face lose an I Quit match. 

I heard that a Clash of The Champions DVD collection is coming out soon, is that true?
I love old WCW DVDs because I don't have many memories of WCW.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Is Survivor Series 2010 worth buying at the price of £6?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Is Survivor Series 2010 worth buying at the price of £6?


Depends on how interesting the card looks to you lol. Stars off good, with Bryan/DiBiase having a solid match, then Sheamus/Morrison (don't remember the match, but they had great chemistry together), and Ziggler/Kaval is solid too (lots of people said it was awesome when it happened, I found it to be a little over the place at times, but still good rather than bad). After that it goes downhill, though I don't remember if the elimination match was good or not lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

jonoaries said:


> I'm not really a fan of "I Quit" matches because there's a high probability of the heel losing. It takes the excitement out of it.



I love the gimmick when it's done right because it can be the ultimate comeuppance for a heel that put the babyface through hell in the feud and in the match.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

How about Money in the Bank 2011, is that worth buying for £6?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Considering it was the best PPV of the year 2011 and one of the best PPV's of the last 7 or so years, it's definitely worth a buy mate!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

andersonasshole900 said:


> How about Money in the Bank 2011, is that worth buying for £6?


Someone else asked that yesterday I think, and I replied with YES. And some other stuff too, but I'm too lazy to look it up .


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I finished watching "Stone Cold: The Bottom Line" and it was awesome. I loved Austin's ECW stuff as well as most of his matches in WCW when I was younger. Thank god the DVD Reminded me of the Austin/Steamboat match, that is hell underrated!!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MITB '11 is certainly worth it. Worth it for Punk/Cena alone. But the SD MITB, Henry/Show, Christian/Orton are all great. And the Raw MITB is still pretty fun, just not as good Smackdown's.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MITB 11 is the second best PPV of 2011, only behind Summerslam IMO. Punk/Cena from MITB is clearly the best match of the two PPV's, I just believe that Summerslam offers more of the complete package.

*Quick Summerslam 2011 Ratings*

Six-Man Tag: **** 3/4*
Mark Henry vs Sheamus: *****
Kelly Kelly vs Beth Phoenix: ****
Wade Barrett vs Daniel Bryan: **** 1/4*
Christian vs Randy Orton: ***** 1/4*
John Cena vs CM Punk: ***** 1/2*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I need to give that six man tag a watch. Had good talent in it so I can imagine it being good but I remember being distracted when it happened originally.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

6 Man has Rey. And that's the only guy I like or think is above "decent" in the talent department . Didn't think much to it at the time, doubt I'll enjoy it now either lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think I would put Morrison above decent. Wasn't a huge fan of him but I thought his ring work from '09 to the end of his WWE career was pretty good. Even his earlier tag stuff too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Morrison could be really good, but similar to Angle (NOT comparing the two... so don't start . Though I don't think highly of either of them. And they tend to do a lot of spots... only really difference is that Angle was successful lol) he needed to be in there with guys who are legit great workers. Unfortunately he was on the same team as Rey in the tag match so he couldn't wrestle any legit great workers. Or any legit good workers. One decent worker and 2 piles of shit. I'll leave it up to your imaginations as to who the one and 2 are .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That's a good point. I thought Morrison was good at selling but his spots could be out of place at times.

I'm gonna say Del Rio as the decent one. :side:

That Morrison/Rey match from '09 is solid as fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, Del Rio is the decent one.

Never was a big fan of Morrison/Mysterio, but I'll be watching it again for the MOTD Poll I'm working on.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What do you all think of Vengeance 2007? I think it was a very good event, been a while since I watched but it had some good matches.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye said:


> That Morrison/Rey match from '09 is solid as fuck.


Best TV match since Cena/HBK from London imo. Maybe better.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really liked it. I'm having trouble thinking of good TV matches from '08 but I can agree it's one of my favorites during that time. Really liked Punk/Morrison from earlier that year too.

As for Vengeance '07, thought it was a really lackluster PPV. Only match I really liked was Murdoch/Cade vs Hardys and even then it wasn't better than their previous ones.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

Just watched Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules again for the first time since the night itself, it really is a great match. The Codebreaker onto the chair did it for me, had me fooled into thinking it was all over. It's moved up in my estimations since the first watch, I've got it as MOTN night now, despite being something of a Daniel Bryan mark  The crowd were massively into it as well, which always helps. WWE should just do every damn show in Chicago. ****1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What do you all think of Vengeance 2007? I think it was a very good event, been a while since I watched but it had some good matches.


I only have bad memories associated with that PPV. Wouldn't wanna touch it with that said. If you want an explanation, I'll leave it at "We want Benoit".


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Murdoch & Cade, I forgot all about them. Loved the shit out of them though, really last decent tag team that was put together from like 2003 onwards (not talking about superstars who randomly partner up from time to time, a legitimate tag team).

Feel like watching a PPV from start to finish, haven't got a clue which one, any takers?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Murdoch & Cade are one of my favorite teams in recent memory. Loved their characters and their ring work.

And go with No Mercy '08, Word. Really good show. Or Backlash '07 and if not either of those then Backlash '04.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What do you all think of Vengeance 2007? I think it was a very good event, been a while since I watched but it had some good matches.


Was archiving my old reviews earlier and I came across the review for that show(NOTE: This is an old review, which basically means that I was too lazy to do a big write-up for each match like I currently do)



*Vengeance 2007: Night Of Champions*

Cade & Murdoch vs The Hardyz: *** 3/4*
Guerrero vs Wang Yang: *** 3/4*
Nitro vs Punk: *****
Marella vs Umaga: ***
MVP vs Flair: ****
Deuce n Domino vs Slaughter and Snuka: ** 1/2*
Edge vs Batista: *****
Candace vs Melina: *DUD*
WWE Championship 5 Way: *****


Thoughts: This PPV is obviously overshadowed by one key incident: The Chris Benoit double homicide/suicide. That is what this night will be remembered for. However, this event had its fair share of good matches nonetheless.

The opener was a formula based tag team match that we've seen out of the Hardys, dozens of times. With that being said, I thought it was a good choice for an opener, and a decent match overall.

Guerrero vs Wang Yang surprisingly got a nice bit of time, and managed to but together a pretty decent match given the circumstances. Nothing GREAT, but a decent, fast paced cruiserweight bout.

Nitro vs Punk was a good encounter, a solid match between two talented performers, but what makes this match so interesting, are the Benoit chants in the background. It makes you think, what was Benoit doing at that very moment ? chilling stuff. Besides that, an above decent, GOOD matchup between the two young competitors.

The next two matches (IC and US championships) have one thing in common: You forget that you've watched them minutes after you've actually watched them. Seriously, those 2 matches are insanely forgettable, although the US championship is more enjoyable because of Naitch.. WOOOOO.

We had a father vs son battle as Deuce and Jimmy Snuka face off in the squared circle for the tag te.....Wait what ? They're actually father and son... Hmmmm points for that. Match sucked but it was good for Nostalgia's sake.

The WHC match exceeded my expectations, as Edge and Batista told a fantastic story, and came up with a finish that made Batista still look strong. A good, solid match that is worth the watch.

Skip the Diva's match unless you don't have any good porn to watch. Seriously.

The WWE Championship match, while a clusterfuck, is a very entertaining clusterfuck. Before the match I asked myself how are they going to protect the likes of Orton and Lashley, who haven't even feuded with Cena yet, and the answer was simple: just get Mick Foley to do the job. A good main event to send the fans home happy.

If there was one word to describe Vengeance 2007 it would be average. We have a bunch of almost 3 star matches alongside 3 star matches with nothing above and a few matches below. Without the whole Benoit incident, this PPV probably would have become forgotten. Still though, not bad and a great way to kill some time. The idea of every championship being defended is brilliant as well.

*6/10*


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Brye said:


> I really liked it. I'm having trouble thinking of good TV matches from '08 but I can agree it's one of my favorites during that time. Really liked Punk/Morrison from earlier that year too.
> 
> *As for Vengeance '07, thought it was a really lackluster PPV. Only match I really liked was Murdoch/Cade vs Hardys and even then it wasn't better than their previous ones.*


You don't care for Edge vs. Batista? I honestly love that match.

I probably like it more than most people here.

Edge trying to find a way out anyway he could was a great use of his character and Batista bitching "IT WAS MY LAST CHANCE!~" always gets me laughing. :lol

Only match I can remember on that '07 show.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Brye said:


> Murdoch & Cade are one of my favorite teams in recent memory. Loved their characters and their ring work.
> 
> And go with No Mercy '08, Word. Really good show. Or Backlash '07 and if not either of those then Backlash '04.


(Y)

Backlash 2007 is the last PPV I bought and actually cared about. Seeing as I love Backlash I'm certainly going to watch 04 tonight.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash really was the most consistent PPV in the 2000s. '04-'09 were all pretty good shows. '00 was pretty good, I recall '01 being good. Can't remember much of '02 or '03 though.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Man, it's been a while since I posted in here. I see KingCal is still here, Clique and Brye (who are mods now? Things sure do change the more that I stay away 8*D). So I guess some of the better posters on the forum still come to post in here. 

Btw, just finish watch all of the Hot Rod DVD and I loved it. Piper was sure the man on the stick, documentary wasn't too bad and love all the Piper's Pit segments WWE put on the set. As far as matches go, they are pretty much hit and miss. 

*(Match) FAVORITES~* in order on the Piper set:

1). Roddy Piper vs. Greg Valentine - Dog Collar match at Starrcade '83: Fucking war. My favorite Piper match ever.

2). Roddy Piper vs. Bret "Hit Man" Hart - IC Title match at WrestleMania VIII: Why I never heard about this is beyond me. This was an awesome match. Piper's performance (which is amazing) in this reminds me somewhat of what Eddie Guerrero did much later with Batista at No Mercy '05 in how had the crowd in the palm in his hands on how fair or dirty he would play in the match. Heenan & Monsoon were perfect in commentary as usual.

3). Roddy Piper vs. Buddy Rose for the Northwest Heavyweight Title at Portland Wrestling - OLD SCHOOL!~ It's fun to see Piper being more of a wrestler here than his usual 'brawler' style he would be known for later on.

4). Roddy Piper vs. Jack Brisco for the Atlantic Heavyweight Title at Mid-Atlantic Wrestling: Again, much for the same reason as the last. But with the awesome little Piper promo at the end of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was a mod too earlier this year .

Love the Piper set. Documentary is one of my favs, second disc with matches is good because there are some really good matches on there, and the rest are at least fun (for me, anyway). And then the 3rd disc... worth the price of the set alone to see all those Piper's Pit segments.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Just saw War Games 92 before putting Backlash 2004 on. Okay, I find this match impossible to rate, it's a strange concept with the only way to win is by submission. There are 10 men in the ring, it's pretty hard to see who submits and when they do the crowd doesn't have a clue, the match just ends. And a massive LOL with Heyman having a massive sheet of paper trying to adopt tactics to his team, that was pretty fucking pathetic. It's 2 rings put together, just fight, no tactics needed.


Meltzer aka The Great One gave this the full 5. Fuck knows how, just a bunch of men beating each other up for 20 minutes, nothing more nothing less. This might have been the hottest crowd ever btw, they wouldn't stop going nuts.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WarGames 1992 is incredible. One of THE greatest WCW matches of all time. Helps if you watch the whole Dangerous Alliance stuff to see the huge build up to it.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Cal, a mod? Ha, goes to show you how much I missed out on. 

And I love the War Games concept. But I never watched the 1992 match before. Kind of interested in checking it out. I like to see how better or worse it is next to say the War Games '91 match (and that was one of my favorites ever outside that shit finish - damn Sid :no.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1991 match didn't hold up nearly as well as I was hoping.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I enjoyed it, just found it hard to rate and granted it was a pretty shitty quality. Not sure about the full 5 though, I'll watch it again sometime.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Got my SummerSlam 2002 DVD in the mail today that I got off of Half.com for an astonishing price of $5.99 in Like New conditions...

As I slowly put my hand in the envelope awaiting to see the memorable DVD cover the moment quickly died when it was the damned KOCH/Canadian release...

...Why do sellers do that? Why don't they put exactly what version it is?

Oh well... I'm not even mad for $5.99 that's a great price for a DVD that goes for over $80.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ah yes, Backlash 03. I think it's a pretty decent PPV, never reviewed this in depth, but I'ma toss out my snowflakes.

*Backlash 2003*

Los Guerreros vs The World's Greatest Tag Team: **** 1/4*
Sean O' Haire vs Rikishi: ** 1/2*
RVD/Kane vs The Dudley Boyz: *** 1/2*
Jazz vs Trish Stratus: *** 1/4*
Big Show vs Rey Mysterio: ***(Awesome Segment Here)*
Brock Lesnar vs John Cena: **** 3/4*
Triple H, Ric Flair & Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash & Booker T: **** 1/2*
The Rock vs Goldberg: *** 3/4*

I loved the opener and the triple main event they had going here. Goldberg vs Rock wasn't the BEST, but for such a big matchup it was quite decent. Loved the six-man tag (minus Nash) and the STIFF AS FUCK Lesnar-Cena matchup. I'd give it about a *7/10*


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Backlash 03 was one of my first DVD's so I have seen it loads and have a lot of love for it!

*Backlash 2003*
Guerrero's/WGTT *****
O'Haire/Rikishi ***
Kane&RVD/Dudleys ****
Jazz/Trish ***
Show/Rey **1/2*
Lesnar/Cena ****1/2*
6 Man Tag ****1/2*
Goldberg/Rock ****1/2*

I really enjoy Goldberg/Rock, Rock is fantastic in it with getting the crowd involved and being in his element in the hollywood gimmick.

Cena/Lesnar and 6 Man tag are very fun too, and theres nothing too bad in the undercard. Solid card.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the 6 man tag in hopes it would be good, since on paper it had potential. Instead I hated it . Don't like Rock/Goldberg, and wasn't too impressed with Cena/Lesnar. Thought they had a better match at a house show I went to a couple of weeks later .


----------



## taylormade (Feb 29, 2012)

When you look back at some of the dross we were given from 2006/2007 the standard of PPV's we get at the moment and even Raw's are so much better than back then. It's like most aspects of life, people always look back with fondness even if things weren't particularly great at the time. Back in 2006 having a PPV with such greatness such as Extreme Rules just wouldnt have happened.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD 2006 was incredible. Storylines weren't great, but DAMN, one hell of a fucking undercard and plenty of great matches. Raw has some hidden gems so far but isn't nearly as good as SD.

As for 07, both shows definitely went downhill.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

taylormade said:


> When you look back at some of the dross we were given from 2006/2007 the standard of PPV's we get at the moment and even Raw's are so much better than back then. It's like most aspects of life, people always look back with fondness even if things weren't particularly great at the time. Back in 2006 having a PPV with such greatness such as Extreme Rules just wouldnt have happened.


I agree with you kind of, I thought 2006 was a good year for PPV's if im honest, No Way Out, WM, Backlash, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Armageddon all were very good PPV's, but going back to a year like 2003 I would be more inclined to agree, the single brand PPV's for RAW were terrible in that year.


----------



## taylormade (Feb 29, 2012)

When I think of 2006 I just think of DX and Undertaker/Khali. They're is just so many different aspects of the company that are interesting at the moment. Undercard matches on PPV's feature past and future main event stars. DOLPH ZIGGLER.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well a LOT more happened that just DX and Undertaker/Khali lol . No wonder you don't remember it as being good. Would be like looking back at this year in 6 years time and just remembering Orton/Kane and Santino/Otunga .


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I'll be honest I remember a lot of what DX did in 2006 compared to others that year as well. 

Not saying that as a good thing either. So many trashy segments and matches from them. I rather watch Triple H's 2003 work before that shit ever again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm Your Papi said:


> I'll be honest I remember a lot of what DX did in 2006 compared to others that year as well.
> 
> Not saying that as a good thing either. So many trashy segments and matches from them. I rather watch Triple H's 2003 work before that shit ever again.


I was a blind mark at this point and I thought the DX vs Vince stuff was fucking hilarious, but then again, I was only 12-13 years old at that point. Looking back at it though, a born-again christian and the bosses son-in-law both in their 40s claiming to be "degenerates" isn't exactly the brightest idea. 

Still though, the crowd ate it up, and the 06 version of DX is comedic GOLD compared to the awful 09-10 run which incorporated HORNSWOGGLE of all people. Fuck, to say that HHH was associated with Hornswoggle makes me feel a little dirty. HOWEVER, the 06-07 version of DX gave us that awesome DX vs Rated RKO match at New Years Revolution 07 that I currently have at ***** 1/4*.

Speaking of that match, it might not even be the best two-on-two tag match of that year, as Batista/Taker vs HBK/Cena just NEXT MONTH gets the exact same rating from me. Which leads me to this question, what are the best two-on-two tag matches (just WWE) year-by-year from 2000-present?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't pay too much attention to Tag matches tbh, but here's what I'd put for some of the years:

2000- Power Trip vs. Benoit/Jericho Raw
2002- Edge/Mysterio vs. Benoit/Jericho NM02 (What I'd put as the best Tag Team Match)
2007- Taker/Batista vs. Cena/HBK NWO
2011- Riley/Mysterio vs. Swagger/Miz Raw

Honestly, that's all I can think of right now.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm Your Papi said:


> Man, it's been a while since I posted in here. I see KingCal is still here, Clique and Brye (who are mods now? Things sure do change the more that I stay away 8*D). So I guess some of the better posters on the forum still come to post in here.


Nice to see you again too. :cool2



*Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Survivor Series 11/18/2007*


*“Both men are forced to wrestle and it’s great to see a pure wrestling match here for the WWE Title.”* _– J.R._ 


Prior to this match for five weeks straight Shawn Michaels delivered Sweet Chin Music to Randy Orton. At Cyber Sunday, the WWE Champion used a low blow to save his title. As a result, special stipulations were made for this blow off match. Randy got Sweet Chin Music banned in this match and if Shawn uses his finisher he will lose and never get another shot at the title again. However, if Randy intentionally gets disqualified, Shawn becomes WWE Champion. These stipulations are an intelligent answer to everything Michaels and Orton did to each other their heated feud. 

The match instantly intrigued me based on the stipulations alone. Shawn is once again in his career forced to change his game plan in a big title match. HBK worked aggressively with grounded submission holds such as a neck vice then a headlock applied with vicious knee shots to the head combonation. After Orton escaped Michaels used his wit by feinting SCM and placing the Champion in a body scissors with a rear naked chokehold. 

Orton, the resilient WWE Champion fought out of Shawn’s submission wrestling strategy and turns the match in his favor with a dirty thumb to the eye. King brought up a good point in questioning if Orton’s use of that dirty move constitutes a disqualification but just like Shawn's teasing of super kick didn't end cause a disqualification.

Shawn's vulnerable head also suffered the wrath of the viper like Orton with a DDT off the middle rope and then body scissors/rear naked choke combination himself. This was strong psychology shown by Orton playing on the story that he gave Shawn a concussion and he will exploit that injury with submission holds. 

The match at this point is a nicely wrestled contest of back and forth submission applications but it was Shawn again to shock everyone with a famous submission hold. On the 10th anniversary of the Montreal Incident, Michaels used the SHARPSHOOTER in a WWE title match once again at Survivor Series! Shawn’s Sharpshooter was not 'excellently executed' and Orton made it to the ropes but it was an interesting callback to incorporate into the match.

Next, it is interesting Shawn tunes up the band again to throw Orton off his game (this plays a role in finish) which led to a quick near fall. Shawn shocks us again by using the CRIPPLER CROSSFACE! This was the first time it was used live on WWE TV since the Benoit Incident. The Miami crowd popped because the climax of the match had arrived! 

When Orton set up The Punt, the move he used to take Shawn out of the WWE for months, Shawn countered with an ANKLE LOCK! Shawn used many of the major submission holds he has felt from his former submission expert rivals (Hart, Angle, and Benoit). Talk about pulling out an unpredictable bag of tricks – I love it! When Shawn grapevines the leg it seems as if Randy would tap out. But Randy again used his long legs to kick Shawn in the head repeatedly until he breaks the hold. 

Michaels tried the Figure Four Leg Lock (wooo) but Orton kicked him headfirst into the steel post in the corner of the ring. Again this is an intelligent play on the concussion injury. It is also ironic Orton used kicks multiple times in this match to save himself from losing yet Shawn can’t use his kick to extract revenge on the man that tried to end his career.

*The finish* is so smartly executed and completely connects with the story they created in the match. Orton has Michaels set up for the RKO but Shawn side swipes him and for a split second HBK instinctively attempted the illegal Sweet Chin Music. We see Shawn lift his leg up for the kick but he stops himself because he realizes he could lose the match. He loses the match anyway because Orton rapidly capitalizes with a swift RKO! Shawn being caught up, psyched himself out, and Sweet Chin Music ultimately led to his defeat not Orton's - brilliant psychology!

As I said earlier the stipulations made this match unique and both men had to adapt and wrestle out of their comfort zones. Both Shawn’s and Randy’s exceptional usage of psychology to tell their story in making strategic moves to win and obtaining revenge make it one of the best WWE Championship matches of 2007.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Love that HBK/Orton match. Bought the DVD used and that match skips so I haven't watched it in ages though. (N)

Really good review, Clique. (Y)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm Your Papi said:


> Man, it's been a while since I posted in here. I see KingCal is still here, Clique and Brye (who are mods now? Things sure do change the more that I stay away 8*D). So I guess some of the better posters on the forum still come to post in here.
> 
> Btw, just finish watch all of the Hot Rod DVD and I loved it. Piper was sure the man on the stick, documentary wasn't too bad and love all the Piper's Pit segments WWE put on the set. As far as matches go, they are pretty much hit and miss.
> 
> ...


I remember you.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Geolink said:


> Got my SummerSlam 2002 DVD in the mail today that I got off of Half.com for an astonishing price of $5.99 in Like New conditions...
> 
> As I slowly put my hand in the envelope awaiting to see the memorable DVD cover the moment quickly died when it was the damned KOCH/Canadian release...
> 
> ...


One of my fav PPVs. I got it for $20 on amazon a few weeks ago. Worth every penny. Card is fuckin stacked.


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

Fuck off Cena


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Mainboy said:


> Fuck off Cena


Yeah!!!


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

My thoughts right now:

1] I have had a long-standing love/hate relationship with "Smackdown". Not sure of specific years, but there were several where I thought their TV shows & PPVs were stacked. Of course, "Raw" being the "flagship show", WWE couldn't allow that. Rather than try to improve Mondays, they booked things for Friday that couldn't help but suck.

2] On a related note, watched tonight, & no clue why they keep referring to John L. as GM for "both" shows separately, not to mention giving him two Twitter accounts. Also, they call Mondays a "supershow", & most talent appears on either both shows or neither. Why not just unify some belts & cancel the draft?!

3] While you're at it, trim the roster(s). Start with the "Bros": Fire Brock, Brodus, & both Runnels Brothers.

EDIT:

4] Forgot for a long time I was also going to suggest changing the names of PPVs every year. For instance, this weekend, we have "Over The Limit"... With 1 singles match including 4 competitors, & another match with a half-dozen stips/rules already announced (that has no belt attached). I far preferred it when "Vengeance" would actually be about someone getting revenge on someone else, or "Backlash" actually involved something happening after Mania, etc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*You Think You Know Me ? The Story Of Edge (3 Disc)*

_Documentary_

I went into this documentary feeling bad for Edge. I mean, how could you not feel for a guy who had his career, his DREAM, end before he wanted it to? Well after watching this documentary it is safe to say that there is a happily ever after story for Edge, there is truly a feel-good vibe throughout the documentary that leaves the viewer feeling good about Edge's future, a man who has no regrets.

Almost everything in Edge's career is covered. I loved hearing from individuals who were close to Edge before he made it big like his two trainers, Rhyno, Christian, and various other childhood and training friends. As a matter of fact, Edge pays homage to his trainers in a segment that is very heartfelt and respectful. Little details such as how KISS influenced Edge's outfits are a nice little touch to the the documentary. His friendship with Christian is especially covered in depth, as you can tell that these two are very close.

All the main points of Edge's career are covered in depth. His entrance into the brood, the tag team title feud with The Hardyz and Dudleyz, his singles face push, the injury, the Matt Hardy-Lita situation (this is covered VERY in-depth, I actually kinda felt for Edge after watching that segment), his feuds with Cena,Batista, and Undertaker, and finally the later stages of his career up to his subsequent retirement. mostly EVERYTHING is there, save for a few things, but there isn't really too much to nitpick over.

There is a little segment on Edge's acting career, but this is strictly a WRESTLING documentary. This is the story of someone who gave his life to the business that he adored since he was a child. While not perfect, casual and hardcore fans alike will love this documentary, as it is one of the best single-superstar documentaries the WWE has ever produced (probably top 5), and even if you choose to not purchase the DVD, I'd suggest watching this ASAP as it is an hour and 50 minutes that just FLY by. Best Documentary of the year so far.

*9/10*

_Disc Two_

Adam Impact vs Christian Cage: *** 1/4*
Edge/Christian vs T & A vs The Hardy Boyz vs Too Cool: *** 1/2*
Edge vs Randy Orton: **** 3/4*
Edge vs Matt Hardy Ladder Match: *****
Edge vs John Cena TLC Match: ******

_Disc Three_

Edge vs Shawn Michaels Street Fight: **** 1/2*
Edge vs The Undertaker: ***** 1/2*
Edge vs Christian: **** 1/2*
Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane vs Alberto Del Rio TLC Match: **** 3/4*
Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane vs Drew Mcintyre vs Wade Barrett vs Big Show Elimination Chamber: ******
Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: **** 1/4*

When I first saw this match listing on paper, I said on this forum that "This is the worst match listing of all time ; nothing but repeats and matches that I don't care for(Outside of Edge vs Orton and the Impact/Cage match). Fuck WWE for double dipping and attempting to steal my money once again because they're too lazy to hunt through their footage archive and compose a decent match listing for once" . I still think this is half true, as 9 out of 11 matches can be found on other PPV and Match comp DVDs, but my stance is different on the issue. I thought about it, and besides a few of these matches, I can see WHY most of these were selected to be on the DVD.

I was never the biggest fan of Edge's in-ring work post neck injury, but the matches on this set are pretty good. Impact vs Cage is very good for an indy match with barely anyone watching, a nice treat for the viewers (the commentary by Edge and Matt Striker makes this match worth watching anyways). Edge/Orton is a rare gem from Raw (which I had hoped to see more of), and while I respect the WWE for choosing not to put a TLC match on the set to showcase Edge & Christians tag team ability, they honestly could have picked a better match than the AVERAGE one that we have on this. The two ladder matches on disc two are staples in Edge's career, but BOTH can be found on the ladder match DVD. The street fight with HBK is pretty good, and his match with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania is his best single's match BY FAR IMO.

But then we get to the part of the DVD I don't understand. The last four matches (there are only eleven) take place within the last 10 months of Edge's career. I can understand showcasing his last match and his last title win, but did we REALLY need the Christian match which was released on DVD about a year ago already ? and the Elimination Chamber for that matter (longest match on the DVD, while it's a great bout, there are many more matches that can be placed on this)? Oh well, it's best to look at the match listing as a HISTORY of Edge, rather than a BEST OF. We get a match from every important phase of Edge's career on this, and not EVERYONE is a hardcore collector like myself, so it's okay to have this match selection.

All in all this is a good DVD with a fantastic documentary and a pretty decent match selection. This DVD will basically sum up Edge's entire career for you, which is alot to ask out of a DVD set nowadays. I still feel that Edge is overrated in the ring, but I've come away from this set thinking higher of him as a complete package (top 5 heel of the last decade for sure), and have more respect for him than MANY MANY other performers out there. Watch the documentary ASAP, but only buy the DVD if you don't own alot of other DVDs OR you need to own every DVD.

*7.75/10*


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

PWInsider.com said:


> The word making the rounds internally is that Silvervision is ending its long run as WWE's European distributor for DVD and Blu-Ray. That's a shame for those markets as in many cases, there were blu-ray releases for those areas that were far superior than what was released here, as well as older content (including old Coliseum videos) that were never released here via DVD.


That's a shame, hope to God it aint true, SilverVision has a tonne of great value even when the sales aren't on. Hoping there isn't any truth to this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Baldwin. said:


> That's a shame, hope to God it aint true, SilverVision has a tonne of great value even when the sales aren't on. Hoping there isn't any truth to this.


I certainly hope SV ain'tnt shutting down, still loads of DVDs for me to get lol, shame thier tagged classic sale ended, was gonna get me a couple this week too,

Still ain't seen a UK release date for the wcw DVD, hope at least amazon get it...


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Hell in a Cell DVD (3 Discs) £6.99 on SV.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Hell in a Cell DVD (3 Discs) £6.99 on SV.


damn, I paid £17.99 just a couple of weeks ago...


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Yeah, I'd watch Silvervision over the next few days. A lot more items going on sale this afternoon apparently and if the rumours are true might be some more bargains in the UK.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Extra-Sale-Items/page1.html

Looks like my pay lasted long.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Some really good stuff right there.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Wow that's a huge sale, goodbye money


----------



## Roybhoy88 (Mar 14, 2011)

*Silvervision UK*

Don't know if this is the correct place but thought some of you guys might be interested

If anybody in the UK are looking for some good deals on WWE DVD's then check out Silvervisions Sale

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Extra-Sale-Items/page1.html

Seems like they are slitting from WWE as Europe's main distributor

Get them while you can.

They also have the fastest delivery system Ive ever came across.


----------



## SludgeHammer (Jun 7, 2009)

*Re: Silvervision UK*

Wow great find! Many thanks for posting this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SV having all these sales is either a sign that things aren't good and they're trying to get rid of as much stock as possible... or they are just trying to keep sales up until everything is sorted and they can start releasing new DVD's again.

Just ordered:

No Mercy 2002
Vengeance 2003
No Mercy 2003

All for 13.47 thanks to the 10% off 3 items or more deal .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Whoa!! Think I'll order those Undertaker sets finally...


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

p


----------



## nailz_jaggzy (May 21, 2007)

*Re: Silvervision UK*

I was hoping this was more information about who is going to be taking over as WWE's UK distributor..

You are right though, I will be very sad to see the end of SilverVision, I have made many a order from them, with record speeds and brilliant prices before the DVD's hit the shops.

Let's hope the new distributor keeps up to the same quality.. and quickly! I'm dying for the WM28 Blu Ray! I was there and stupidly didnt order/ record it off sky box office as i was in Miami..


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: Silvervision UK*

I really hope silvervision isn't ending, such a great service and what a selection...


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: Silvervision UK*

Love the site, it's the only place get DVDs from now. Just had 2 come this morning, and considering they were from 1997, quality and delivery times were awesome  Really hope it doesn't go.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: Silvervision UK*

Been using it for 8 years and it's been fantastic since day one, I have never had a pre order not arrive on the release date and they have some great offers, will be gutted if it becomes the end of the line


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Wasn't sure if to put this in a seperate thread, in here (since it's part of a DvD) or in the music section but I am hoping someone here can help me out 

this is the final part of the Rise and Fall of WCW DvD. (A very good watch I might add)






Anyway onto my question, if you watch it there is a slow instrumental throughout the video, to close the DvD. I was wondering if anyone knew the name of the song or something simmilar, I am looking to make my own homemade video of something not to do with wrestling and want to use music like that in the background. 

Big ups to anyone that can help me out (Y)


----------



## Beautiful Bobby (Mar 6, 2012)

I really hope it's not true about Silvervision. They always had decent bargains on their site and delivery was always very quick.

If WWE do strike a deal with another distributor then I'm wondering what's going to happen to the Tagged Classics series? I don't know if it would be possible but I've always wanted SV to do one of those fortnightly magazine/dvd combos with their old PPVs. The ones you can buy in the newsagents where the first issue is cheap like £2.99 then every issue after that is something like £8.99. Manga UK have done it in recent years with their old titles and was a success as it ended after 100 editions which was twice as long as originally intended. I know that actually works out more expensive than the £14.99 double-packs on the SV site, but it would be a wonderful thing to collect.

In the unlikely event that it ever happened though, I would like it to be Silvervision doing it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wish I lived in the UK for this silvervision stuff. :sad:

Watched WM XXIV with a couple friends the other night. Still my favorite WM.
*
Finlay vs JBL - Belfast Brawl - ***1/4*

This match gets better and better every time I watch it and it's honestly one of the most action packed JBL matches I've ever seen. Finlay is a badass too. And that suicide dive into the trash can lid is insane. Really, really enjoy this match.
*
Money In The Bank IV - ****1/4*

This still holds up as my favorite MITB even though I have the original rated higher. Tons of creativity in this one with my favorite spots being the sunset flip powerbomb/suplex off the ladder from Benjamin and the ladder contraption in the corner that Morrison climbs up and almost grabs the case. I still can't believe that Benjamin spot powerbomb spot though, it's breathtaking. Not to mention you have a diving backstabber that almost hits Jericho in the back of the skull, Benjamin going through a ladder and doing other insane shit, Morrison's ridiculous moonsault with the ladder and Punk winning. LOVE this match. (Y)
*
Umaga vs Batista - Battle Of Brand Supremacy - ***

My one big disappointment on this show. Could have been so much better if it had been booked a bit differently but these two never really picked it up. Sort of a slow pace for it and the finish just sort of happens. Meh, think in a hardcore environment they could've had a great match but this was more for filler.
*
Kane vs Chavo Guerrero - ECW Championship - **

Giving it a star because it was funny, out of nowhere and the match wouldn't have been that good had it happened. So bravo for WWE making an actual questionable match go under a minute at WM. :side:
*
Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair - Ric Flair's Final Masterpiece - ****3/4*

This still holds up for me. I've watched it at least ten times and it gets me every time. Just the video package before the match hypes me up for it. Both of them put on a hell of a show here and HBK's missed moonsault through the table is chilling. Looked like he was gonna puke everywhere. The final moments are what made it though. The "I'm sorry, I love you" was epic and even know not many expected Flair to win, it didn't hurt the match one bit.
*
Maria & Ashley vs Melina & Beth Phoenix w/Santino Marella & Snoop Dogg as guest host - **

Wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen. Santino was hilarious in this and the backstage segment. Plus Katie Lea was there. :mark: I'M MARKING OUT BRO.
*
Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H - WWE Championship - ***1/2*

Really good match in a wrestling sense but I've heard people say, and I completely agree, that something was missing. Not even sure what it was, but it didn't seem complete. I think this might have been the first time Orton did the double roped DDT. I remember when that move actually finished matches. :side: Still a really solid match though and the ending with the punt was well done.

*Big Show vs Floyd Mayweather - ***1/4
*
This match entertains the fuck out of me. Starts off kinda slow but once Mayweather's entourage gets involved it becomes awesome. Absolute havoc once Show starts destroying people and Mayweather takes a pretty mean beating. Ending with the brass knucks (regal plz) was pretty cool too. The chokeslam that the poor fuck in his entourage is brutal.
*
Edge vs The Undertaker - World Heavyweight Championship - ****1/2*

This match grows on me every time I watch it. I think I rated it ***1/2 when it originally happened but it keeps going up for me. Taker really takes a beating in this that I didn't quite remember. You get a few too many finishers during the ending sequences but it's the main event of WM so if there's any place for that, it's here. Edge actually looked really badass in this match made a damn good effort of taking out Undertaker. Plus you gotta love the Charles Robinson epic run to the ring. Had the stage been on SD, you'd have to believe it would've ended. :side:

Overall this is still my favorite Wrestlemania and my favorite WWE PPV of all time. Got 3 matches that went over four stars, 3 in the three star range and even the matches under that can hold your attention. Only real disappointment is Umaga/Batista.
*
Overall: 9.5/10*


----------



## rzombie1988 (May 29, 2008)

I had Floyd Mayweather vs Big Show as my match of the year that year. Just simple and awesome pro wrestling. I loved that match.

I just reviewed the Austin vs Kane vs Taker match from 1998 and the Kane vs Taker match with Austin as the special ref on my blog. You can check it out in my sig.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM24:

JBL vs. Finlay- ***
MITB- ****
Umaga vs. Batista- *1/2
Michaels vs. Flair- ****
Cena vs. Orton vs. HHH- ***1/2
Big Show vs. Mayweather- ***1/4
Taker vs. Edge- ****1/4

Overall definitely one of the best Manias imo.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

They should definitely bring back MITB at Mania.

~Gets the midcarders involved in the biggest PPV of the year
~Can give a guy credibility for a year
~Always great, innovative entertainment
~Breaks up the mid card matches perfectly over pointless single matches which end up going nowhere
~Gets the crowd going
~Some argue it was destroying the mid card scene, when in actual fact Mania (27 & 28) have been worse off without it.


----------



## rzombie1988 (May 29, 2008)

WM needs MITB. It makes those shows so much better and gives everyone a spot on the card, which eliminates the stupid tag they have.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Beautiful Bobby said:


> I really hope it's not true about Silvervision. They always had decent bargains on their site and delivery was always very quick.
> 
> If WWE do strike a deal with another distributor then I'm wondering what's going to happen to the Tagged Classics series? I don't know if it would be possible but I've always wanted SV to do one of those fortnightly magazine/dvd combos with their old PPVs. The ones you can buy in the newsagents where the first issue is cheap like £2.99 then every issue after that is something like £8.99. Manga UK have done it in recent years with their old titles and was a success as it ended after 100 editions which was twice as long as originally intended. I know that actually works out more expensive than the £14.99 double-packs on the SV site, but it would be a wonderful thing to collect.
> 
> In the unlikely event that it ever happened though, I would like it to be Silvervision doing it.


If SV go the Tagged Classics will go with them. From what I understand they are only allowed to re-release stuff they previously released which a new company would not be able to do.

Anyway strangly for someone who has as many DVDs as me and who lives in the UK I'd ordered less than 10 DVDs (not including all the BD exclusive PPV they've released) from SV in the 6 years I've been collecting. I've always kinda wanted to get the Tagged Classics but felt they were overpriced but at £5.99 a pop I couldn't resist and in the last week have bought the following :$

King Of The Ring 1993 & 1994
King Of The Ring 1995 & 1996
King Of The Ring 1997 & 1998
King Of The Ring 1999 & 2000
In Your House 3 & 4
In Your House 5 Seasons Beatings & 6
In Your House 7 Good Friends Better Enemies & 8 Beware Of The Dog
In Your House 9 International Incident & 10 Mind Games
In Your House 11 Buried Alive & 12 It's Time
In Your House 13 Final Four & 16 Canadian Stampede
In Your House 14 Revenge Of The 'Taker & 15 A Cold Day In Hell
In Your House 17 Ground Zero & 18 Badd Blood
In Your House 19 D-Generation X & 20 No Way Out Of Texas
In Your House 21 Unforgiven 1998 & 22 Over The Edge 1998
In Your House 23 Fully Loaded 1998 & 24 Breakdown
In Your House 25 Judgment Day 1998 & 26 Rock Bottom
In Your House 27 St Valentine's Day Massacre & 28 Backlash
Fully Loaded 1999 & Unforgiven 1999
No Mercy 1999 & Armageddon 1999 
Unforgiven 2000 & No Mercy 2000
Judgment Day 2000 & Fully Loaded 2000
No Way Out 2000 & Backlash 2000
Armageddon 2000 & No Way Out 2001
Armageddon 2002
WWE Live In The UK October 2007 
WWE Live In The UK November 2008
WWE Live In The UK November 2009
WWE Live In The UK April 2010 
WWE Live In The UK November 2010 
WrestleMania 3 - Championship Edition


----------



## Beautiful Bobby (Mar 6, 2012)

Platt said:


> If SV go the Tagged Classics will go with them. From what I understand they are only allowed to re-release stuff they previously released which a new company would not be able to do.
> 
> Anyway strangly for someone who has as many DVDs as me and who lives in the UK I'd ordered less than 10 DVDs (not including all the BD exclusive PPV they've released) from SV in the 6 years I've been collecting. I've always kinda wanted to get the Tagged Classics but felt they were overpriced but at £5.99 a pop I couldn't resist and in the last week have bought the following :$
> 
> ...


I saw their Tagged Classics sale last week and I couldn't bear to check again until today because I don't have the money right now. Most of the stuff you bought was the same DVDs I was wanting as well. At £3 a disc you will be glad you did buy them when the value of these things inevitably rise through the years. 

This is going to be a nightmare now trying to collect these and I wanted all the PPVs of the '80s and '90s as well :no:


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WrestleMania XXIV*

*Belfast Brawl*: Finlay vs. JBL - **1/2

*Money in the Bank*: John Morrison vs. Carlito vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. MVP vs. CM Punk - ***1/2

*Battle for Brand Supremacy*: Batista vs. Umaga - **1/4

*ECW World Heavyweight Title*: Chavo Guerrero vs. Kane - **

*Career Threatening Match*: Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair - *****

*Bunnymania Tag Team Match*: Maria & Ashley vs. Beth Phoenix & Melina - **

*Triple-Threat Match for the WWE Championship*: Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. John Cena - ***1/2

The Big Show vs. Floyd Mayweather - **3/4

*World Heavyweight Championship*: Edge vs. The Undertaker - ****1/4


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

Get weird obsession over steelbooks when it comes to DVDs/BluRays. Anyone know of all the steelbook edition WWE DVD'S that were released in the UK?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd almost go the full 5 with Edge V Taker at WM24, Id probably have it at **** 1/2....one of my fav matches from either guy....one of the few times I thought the streak was going down


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

*Wrestling Documentaries (DVDs) you want made*

I really want want a Chris Jericho Documentary made; like an actual Hollywood big name actor type movie. 

Of course mention any other WWF/WWE/ECW/WCW (and other) wrestling movies you want to see.


----------



## Oh Lymping Hero! (Aug 23, 2010)

*Re: Wrestling Documentaries (DVDs) you want made*



You're Pretty Good said:


> I really want want a Chris Jericho Documentary made; like an actual Hollywood big name actor type movie.
> 
> Of course mention any other WWF/WWE/ECW/WCW (and other) wrestling movies you want to see.


So you want Chris Jericho to star? Or you want a big name actor to star to make it not actually a doco?


I reckon a doco on the daily life of Vince McMahon or HHH would be good.


----------



## The Skarupa (Mar 2, 2010)

*Re: Wrestling Documentaries (DVDs) you want made*

I'd love one on someone like The Patriot, who admittedly was a favorite of mine, but guys in general who peaked at some point, but still never really had the recognition to warrant big time coverage. 

As sad as it was seeing Jake Roberts in Beyond The Mat, I really like hearing from guys who aren't in the spotlight anymore, and don't have to play politics.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I want WWE to produce a Christian 3-disc set featuring a documentary and matches. He deserves it and has an extensive career to cover. I also want to see this match make a future Christian DVD:


*Jack Swagger vs. Christian 
ECW Championship Match
ECW February 24, 2009*

At the time, Jack Swagger was one of the hottest young commodities in all of the WWE. He embodied the name _Swagger_. He has a natural cockiness about him like the star athlete at a school whose attitude is annoying but he is so good you have to take notice of his undeniable talent. In 2009, Swagger hadn't been on WWE TV for even a year and he’d already had quality performances with Finlay and Matt Hardy. Granted those two veterans Swagger feuded with steered the ship the in those matches but you can see his natural talent at work and he played a huge role too in making those matches good too. Now Swagger has found the best opponent of his career in the returning Christian.

In this ECW Championship match both Swagger and Christian faced big tests. For Swagger he must step up to yet another level to eventually move further in the WWE ranks. He is bound to have a future main event spot in WWE but only if he wants it which I know he does. Christian is more than mid-card talent. He is in ECW to show the world he belongs at the top as the face of the brand but also to help make new stars.

Swagger often starts his matches quickly wrapping around his opponent with a waist lock/take down combo just to show off his speed, technique and power. Psychologically Swagger wants to show Christian he may be the veteran but it’s like he’s saying, "you’re not as good as me!” Christian has been in the business for over a decade and has seen all styles and has defeated some of the best technical wrestlers and amateur champions in the business including Swagger so he will not be intimidated.

Christian threw Swagger off a bit from his wrestling game plan with his open-handed punches to the mouth. Christian then used his speed to make the rookie champion rush into offense which also helped Christian score some quick near falls. But the mouse can dodge the cat for so long and the momentum started to shift when Swagger would catch Christian in key spots. First, Christian jumped backwards from the top rope and got caught with a clothesline to the back of the head. Another moment while Christian was on the ring apron Swagger ran through him like a truck. And finally Christian rushed himself towards Swagger and got his left shoulder blasted into the steel steps.

A big thing you will see in Swagger’s matches is him targeting his opponent’s shoulder. As long as Swagger has someone who can properly sell this particular piece of match psychology then it will continue to work (it has for years for many wrestlers just pick a different body part). Lucky for Swagger, Christian is one of the best sellers in the company. With his opponent injured, Swagger can dominate and build his story easily from there. 

Christian has perfected the *babyface in peril* role. He plays the role amazingly well with his agony filled facials that make him look so distressed. The way Christian flexes his fingers and holds his hand out like it’s been snapped in two makes me as a fan want to support him and see him dig down deep and recover. He continues selling shaking his fingers, pumping his fist in an attempt to get the blood flowing again. 

Then there’s the spot where Swagger has Christian trapped in a back waist lock and of course Christian can’t use his left shoulder which Swagger is leaning a lot of pressure towards so Christian uses head butts to break the hold! It’s the intricate things that may fly over people’s heads but I see Christian selling and working 100 percent all of the time. Christian has a special connection with his Peeps and some may not notice it but this is one of the reasons why. It is also why I consider Christian one of the very best workers in the business today.

Earlier in the match I mentioned Swagger catching Christian in a quick counter exchange with a back clothesline. Well Swagger tried to use a front/back clothesline combo but Christian countered both attempts and hit his reverse DDT. It is a mark of a true veteran knowing to counter a move that was so devastating from earlier in the match. Now that’s what I call a smart spot. Christian is so damn good at making every little detail in the match make sense and look good.

With the momentum in Christian’s favor he was able to hit a diving head butt from the top rope and a brutal tornado DDT that looked like it spiked Swagger's head into the mat! While all this is happening Christian never forgets to sell the shoulder injury. He would always grabbed the shoulder and never forget the story of the match. 

Christian can't take advantage (can't win) because he’s so wounded at this point. That leads to his downfall as he couldn’t hold Swagger to deliver the Kill switch. Swagger whether it was his idea or Christian’s it was perfect timing for the champion to throw him into the steel ring post. We see a couple more counters after that and Christian again is in too much pain to use his finisher and Swagger takes advantage again with the devastating Gutwrench Powerbomb to retain the ECW Title!

What a dominate performance from Swagger and a gutsy performance from Christian putting together a smart, excellent wrestling match. They gave the ECW Championship more credibility but more importantly Jack Swagger never looked any better. He dominated most of the match and Christian sold for him to make him look like gold.

***** 1/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Elimination Chamber 2012*

_WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match_

I was kind of blown away when this was the opener, I thought to myself "wow, Smackdown actually gets to main event a PPV for once?", boy was I wrong. The workrate in this match is actually pretty solid, and the bumps taken by Ziggler are absolutely brutal, proving that a match does not need blood in order to be violent. R-Truth wasn't in the match too long and didn't serve much of a purpose(he was eliminated by an elbow drop FFS), while Miz was his usual self (I swear to god he's afraid to take a bump or something). Punk/Kingston/Jericho are all pretty awesome here also, as the match itself is quite great, but there is one pressing issue facing this match that makes me not like it as much as I should: The drama.

I mean, damn. With the exception of Jericho and Punk, nobody had a shot at winning this thing and it was blatantly obvious. Besides that, how about that atrocious booking? There was no reason for Jericho to be in this match at all, as the feud between Punk and Jericho had no real heat to it yet. But, shitty booking aside, this match was a workrate chamber with a high intensity and some absolute VIOLENCE on the outside. The MVP of this match is a tossup between Ziggler and Punk, with all 6 workers giving it their all in this one. The whole concussion angle with Jericho didn't really work for me either, and it slowed the match down completely, but it was a fantastic opener, Punk retains.

**** 1/2*

_Beth Phoenix vs Tamina Snuka_

Can you think of any division in Wrestling history that is more boring than the current Divas division ? I can't recall one specifically. This match was actually quite decent for a Divas match nowadays, which is more than I can say about alot of these Divas matches that I see on PPV. Sure, there are some moves botched and barely anybody in the arena cares, but the pace they were working at, and the story that they both told in the ring was decent enough to carry this match for almost 8 minutes. Plus, we get to see a Superfly Splash and an awesome nearfall where I actually thought Tamina was taking the title home. Silly me, Beth wins this. Above average match for two divas, but still a very MEH match.

****

_World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match_

Wait, wait, wait. So you're telling me that on a show called ELIMINATION CHAMBER, a fucking AMBULANCE MATCH will be the main event? Oh well, this match was pretty good for the talent that was involved. Outside of Daniel Bryan and Cody Rhodes, we had one of the worst workers in WWE history (Khali), a mediocre giant (Big Show), a comedy wrestler (Santino), and a borefest (Barrett). Instead of doing the smart thing and having Bryan and Rhodes start and carry the match, we have to suffer through 5 minutes of Show vs Barrett, and than Rhodes and Barrett vs Show. They actually work on the Big Show pretty well (to their credit), but Wade dosen't interest me in the slightest so there you go. The crowd is going INSANE for Santino in this one, as he actually gets some good offense. This is all pretty mediocre stuff at this point, and Khali lasts about 2 minutes in the chamber, a smart move (seriously).

The match picks up when Bryan enters at #6 (shocker). It's really a tale of two matches, as from this point on, this match kicked ASS at a great pace, with some awesome storytelling and a hot crowd. The fact that Barrett and Rhodes knock off the Big Show, but Rhodes allows his confidence to lead to his defeat as well was compelling, as well as Santino's elimination of Barrett. The last few minutes are actually amazing, as Bryan does a great job of selling the fact that Santino actually MIGHT WIN the world championship. However, thankfully Bryan retains in a bipolar matchup, with half of it being boring and the other half being packed with a fast pace and excitement. At the end of the day, this is worse than the Raw Chamber, but it is still a good/great match. MVP would have to go to either Rhodes or Bryan.

*****

_Jack Swagger vs Justin Gabriel United States Championship Match_

This match was just announced during a horrible backstage segment involving farting, Hornswoggle, Vickie Guerrero, and putrid acting from Justin Gabriel. I mean, GOD DAMN his moveset is flashy and exciting, but this guy is HORRENDOUS on the mic and has very little charisma. Practically a nothing match here to get the crowd simmered down for the main event. It's only 3 minutes and has absolutely no structure or psychology, but there are actually some awesome moves and stiff shots here that just make this match actually half worthwhile to watch. Swagger retains with ease as I have NO CLUE what WWE is doing booking matches like these. 

***

_John Cena vs Kane Ambulance Match_

Let me start off by saying I actually like this match. Sure, it isn't fantastic it terms of workrate or anything, but it has some good quality violence mixed in with some great spots, half decent psychology and some pretty good storytelling. I like how the match is so one sided in Kane's favor at one point, until Cena goes absolutely beserk and just DESTROYS Kane with various weapons, even managing to get some of his "swagger" back until Kane chokeslams him through the announce table in a really cool spot. The playfulness that Cena exerts amongst the carnage is an indicator that he has NOT embraced the hate, which I felt was necessary for the storyline.

Where I think this match isn't the greatest is in the drama department. I mean, let's face it here, was there any doubt that Cena was going to win ? Not in my mind. Also, alot of this match is just setting up for spots or when the competitors are dragging each other to the ambulance, which aren;t the most exciting moments. To wrap this match up, I'll say this: The end spot was pretty cool, and some of the violence was great, and it was an all around ENTERTAININGLY GREAT match, with a few key flaws (mostly in the technical department) that keep it from going to the next level. Good match though, I'd definitely watch again.

**** 1/4*

_Thoughts_

There was an hour and 40 minutes of wrestling on this show, an hour and a half of that being dedicated to 3 matches that were ***-*** 1/2 encounters, so that's actually pretty damn good. Besides those 3 matches, we have two basic filler matches that are MEH and are a combined 10 minutes long. We also got a pretty damn long segment featuring John Laurinitis that I thought dragged on a bit too long, but at a second glance, the wrestling was SOLID. I say solid because there is nothing resembling a classic on this card, but the main 3 matches are pretty good nonetheless. My problem with this PPV is simple..WHY DOES IT EXIST ?!?!

At the end of the show, We have no new champions, two world title feuds continue, and Cena is still just going on to face Rock at Wrestlemania, so that makes this PPV EXTREMELY HARD to grade. Individually, we have 3 long matches that are rock solid, but they don't necessarily provide any advancements to the storylines that they are in. Watch the 3 main matches online (don't need to go out of your way to watch them), and skip the rest. Buy if you're a hardcore DVD collector, because no doubt atleast one of the main 3 matches will be on a best of 2012 DVD set anyways.

*6/10*


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I just took the time to download Wrestlemania XI (1995) and haven't seen it before, I looked up the card online without spoilers for the matches and it seems "alright" for the lack of depth the roster had back in 95, I mean 95 was probably the worst year of the 90's for WWF, Nash was a horrible champion and they didn't have that many other options until late 96. Anyway, without giving away any of the match results (  ) what are your thoughts on the show? I plan on watching it in a few hours.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's often called the worst WrestleMania for a very, very good reason.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Does Mick Foley have a DVD out?


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Does Mick Foley have a DVD out?


Loads but none recent: 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=....,cf.osb&fp=d3cb4836b258fc0f&biw=1152&bih=801


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Cookie Monster said:


> Does Mick Foley have a DVD out?


Yeah, 'Greatest Hits & Misses: Hardcore Edition'. It's pretty god damn fantastic. Alternative commentary by Foley and Styles on the four post-1999 matches is really cool, too. Features a lot of fantastic matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley's Greatest Hits DVD is awesome. Plenty of really good matches (if you skip the ECW shit lol), and the bonus features are amazing (Anti Hardcore promos... GOAT).


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I will definitely give that a look. Thanks once again guys!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wonder if the clash of the champions DVD is coming to the UK anytime soon, its out next week in the US but no date is listed anywhere like amazon on a UK date,

Id order the region 1 but the UK release has two exclusive matches so im unsure..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> I wonder if the clash of the champions DVD is coming to the UK anytime soon, its out next week in the US but no date is listed anywhere like amazon on a UK date,
> 
> Id order the region 1 but the UK release has two exclusive matches so im unsure..


Until SV get sorted (or another company takes over or something), nowhere in the UK will have the DVD since they are the ones that produce them over here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Until SV get sorted (or another company takes over or something), nowhere in the UK will have the DVD since they are the ones that produce them over here.


ah thanks for that mate, may as well hang fire for a bit then...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The wcw nitro set is only £6.99 at Silvervision today...


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

WWE will find someone else, or even stay with SV for that matter. Surely WWE turnover profit by selling DVDs in the UK so I don't know why they would stop it.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

If push comes to shove, I'll order the Clash & ECW Blu-Ray sets from the Australian site, they work out at about £16-£18 each so it's not that expensive for them. Glad I ordered the DVD's I wanted to from the SilverVision sale yesterday, a fair few of them are out of stock already.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Can people from the states order from this Australian site? If so (and even if not) what is the website?


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

So took advantage of the Silvervision sale and ordered No Mercy 2002 and Vengeance 2005. Wanted to order more but budget would not allow it .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*“Nature Boy” Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham
NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Battle of the Belts II (February 14, 1986) *

The match-up between Ric Flair and Barry Windham is a perfect example of a classic showdown between an 80’s style heel and baby-face. It’s a natural story of flamboyance and arrogance along with high success facing the humility and fight of a real “good guy.” Windham is white meat baby face yet he still has that slight edge about him that makes him cool. It’s probably due to his Texas/cowboy roots but this man has something about him that indirectly or not makes you want to cheer for him. 

He has great chemistry, timing and poise that connect to the audience so well. Like that fighting stance he does while challenging Flair to come fight him. Windham doesn’t need to pose to the crowd because he already has them going with his big punches to the head of Flair in unison with their cheers. It feels like the crowd is vicariously fighting Flair through Windham and this young challenger is fully focused on winning the gold.

Flair will use every trick in the book to retain his gold and show why is should be considered the greatest World’s Champion of all time. Flair probably does respect his opponents which is why he shook Windham’s hand at the start of the match, which also displays the pride of being in an NWA World Title Match, but Flair still will cheat and play dirty any opportunity he can get because he loves being champion more. 

The ropes were Flair’s best friend the entire match it seemed all the way up to the finish. Flair is the master at holding the ropes to gain leverage over an opponent be it in pinning combinations or in submission holds. It’s a play I’ve never seen fail for him that draws tons of heat. After a great catch-as-catch can, chain style start both men took it to the mat where we see Flair channel his amateur skills and wrestle Windham on the mat. Flair is simply a brilliant wrestler on the mat no question about it. I love how he turns pure wrestling yet again into something dirty by grabbing the ropes in an attempt to pin the challenger. 

One of my favorite moments is when Flair turned a botch into yet another intricate part of the clash in personality and his willingness to do anything to win. So Flair gets his head and neck caught in the ropes and he sells it right at that moment yelling in agony and holding his neck as he lies in the corner. We then see Windham in an act of being a fair competitor allow Flair to get up but Flair deceives him and takes him down instead! 

This in turn leads to Flair dominating and busting Windham open building the heat of the match as Barry looks like a warrior in peril fighting to make his strong comeback. Also, great job on Gordon Solie’s part in describing the potentially lethal effects a move as simple as the sleeper hold could have. Mike Graham is not so bad himself on commentary either putting both men over as true athletes of the sport of professional wrestling. 

Windham eventually made his comeback busting Flair opening too and then it’s back and forth to the end from there. The finish is excellent and actually the best way to end the broad way of the evening. Both men fly over the top rope to the concrete floor and battle to a double count-out. 

I probably hold this match and their match in January 1987 on the same mantle. Windham is one of the best opponents Flair has ever had. The chemistry Flair has with him is almost as good as with Steamboat and that says a lot about the super talented Barry Windham.

***** 3/4*​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that Flair/Windham match. Second great match of all the times for me. 3rd would be their WWW 87 match .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Love that Flair/Windham match. Second great match of all the times for me. 3rd would be their WWW 87 match .


So, wait. There's actually somebody else who has the Flair/Windham matches rated higher than the Flair/Steamboat matches ? :shocked:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep lol. Flair/Steamboat COTC would be right behind the 2 Flair/Windham matches. Shame the Crockett Cup 87 Windham/Flair match wasn't quite as good as the other 2, would have been awesome for Flair to have 2 ***** trilogies for me .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So how would you rank the Flair-Steamboat trilogy? I have it like this:

1. Chi Town Rumble: *****
2. Wrestlewar 89: *****
3. COTC: *****

Fuck, just realized that I haven't watched those matches in a long, long time. Off to watch the trilogy and to re-rank these bad boys !


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Reverse the order of yours and you have mine .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat: The Trilogy*

_Match 1: Chi Town Rumble: February 20th, 1989_

We see Flair entering the ring with his manager Hiro Matsuda, amongst a plethora of women who proceed to kiss and give roses to Flair, while Steamboat previously entered with his wife and son. They are really playing up the whole "Womanizer vs Family Man" story here. The match begins and steamboat gets a very nice shoulder block on Flair, which leads us to believe that Steamboat has the strength and speed advantage over the champion. They begin to chop it out here, and MAN are those chops loud. Flair, of course bails because he has no idea what to do with Steamboats physical advantage. We get some beautiful mat wrestling by both men, until at one point Flair has Steamboat backed into a corner and we hear a smattering of "Steamboat sucks!" chants, which cause Steamboat to get EXTRA intense with some crazy chops and a beautiful headscissors takedown. A double chop gets a near pinfall.

This scares Flair, who bails out of the ring again. I love the psychology here, as once Flair realizes that he can be caught at any moment and lose the title, he decides to go all full blown HEEL mode, throwing Steamboat outside of the ring, raking the eyes, and various other Flair heel tactics. Flair takes the advantage until Steamboat counters back, which of course makes the crowd EXPLODE. More beautiful chops occur until Flair comes off the top rope in a crossbody, but Steamboat turns him over for the near three count. Flair locks the figure four out of nowhere, and holds it for quite sometime, but gets caught using the ropes as leverage. I love how that sequence sums up this match in a nutshell. Flair knows he must cheat to beat Steamboat, but he cannot cheat without getting caught, thereby compromising himself in a particular position.

Some absolutely wonderful chops and suplexes by both men here, as the workrate is off the charts. Both men are selling the wear of this match superbly, and wrestling at an ubelieveably fast pace, one that I don't think I've ever seen before. Top rope cross body gets three but the referee is down. Flair gets a rollup for three as well, but there is no referee to count. Steamboat is spent (being in semi-retirement for so long), and misses a top rope dive. I absolutely love this character driven end sequence, as Flair realizes that Steamboat is tired and loads up for the Figure Four. Steamboat counters this into a cradle for the three count and the victory. Wow, even better than I have remembered, this is probably the greatest paced match of all time. The build up paid off, the storytelling and psychology are amazing, and the workrate is some of the greatest of all time. What a match.

*******


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Top 5/10 ppvs from the 2002-2012 decade?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Top 5/10 ppvs from the 2002-2012 decade?


So many people have asked this lately.

Summerslam 2002
Survivor Series 2002
Vengeance 2003
Vengeance 2005
Backlash 2007
Wrestlemaia 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26
No Mercy 2008

The list goes on...


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

So what exactly is going on with Silvervision? Everyone's orders are getting to them still, right?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> So what exactly is going on with Silvervision? Everyone's orders are getting to them still, right?


yeah, some come today for me and I've ordered a few more today too..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hoping my order comes 2morrow :mark:. Waiting on 3 DVD's and a Bluray .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bought a bundle of DVDs off eBay last summer and I just realized I've yet to touch No Mercy '07 yet. :lmao

Looked at the card and a couple matches interest me. I remember liking the LMS and the six man tag sounds good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Mercy 07 was one of those shows that was best on first watch (preferably live, but a watch without spoilers is just the same). After that, some of the matches/moments aren't quite the same . As far as match quality goes, only really remember the LMS match being good (great, actually). HHH/Umaga wasn't bad, but nothing special. Finlay/Rey wasn't as amazing as it could have been. Rest of the show is pretty garbage tbh (don't remember the first HHH/Orton match though).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat: The Trilogy*

_Match 2: Clash of the Champions VI: April 2nd, 1989_

After watching the Chi-Town Rumble and hearing how Cal said this was the best of the trilogy, I was interested in seeing how this match would pan out. This is a very different match than the Chi-Town Rumble encounter, as that matchup I believe was based more off fast paced emotion and hard hitting moves, whereas this encounter is slightly slower paced, but at 3 times the length, can you really blame them ? This match features maybe the greatest matwork of all time, as the first two falls consist of beautiful headlock takedowns, front facelocks, etc. The diversity of the holds are better in this match also, as Steamboat uses variations of the Boston Crab, standing double armed chicken-wing, and even Flair's own figure four.

The psychology in this match is top notch. before Steamboat locks in the figure four, he makes sure to deliver SIXTEEN elbows to flairs left leg before applying the hold. When Flair begins his work on Steamboats legs in the third fall, Steamboat has some excellent selling that complies with the story that these two men are trying to tell inside of the ring. The logic used in this match, and the throwback to the previous match is great, as at one instance Flair is going to run from turnbuckle to turnbuckle and deliver a cross body like he did in the last match, but Steamboat catches him with a stiff chop instead. That's another thing about this match, the chops are just as solid as the Chi-Town match. The build up in the first two falls to the final fall is tremendous, as I will actually go out and say that the final fall between these two might be the greatest twenty minutes of wrestling ever. MAYBE. 

The way that Flair's leg work leads us to the improbable finish is awesome, as Steamboat goes for the chickenwing hold that made Flair tap out earlier, but his legs just won't allow him to do it, leading us to our non-clean finish that sets up the final match in the trilogy. The Psychology and storytelling are off the charts here. While not as flashy and loud as the Chi-Town Rumble encounter, what it gives us in terms of matwork and storytelling is even better. I didn't want this match to end, seriously, and at 56 minutes of pure greatness, you can't really ask for very much more out of a professional wrestling match. *Even better than Chi-Town Rumble.*

*******

Wow, I'm absolutely PUMPED to watch the Wrestlewar match.


----------



## Mark. (Nov 25, 2006)

3 hours left on the ROH DVDs, still some time left on the WWE DVDs and books.



Mark. said:


> Selling the following WWE books and DVDs:
> 
> *A Lion's Tale - Chris Jericho*
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130694973759?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> ...


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Top 5/10 ppvs from the 2002-2012 decade?


Summerslam 02
WM 19
Backlash 2004
Vengeance 2005
WM 22
Unforgiven 2006
WM 24
WM 26
Money In The Bank 2011
Extreme Rules 2012


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Glad you liked COTC more than CTR, K1ngOfK1ngs. Always been my favourite of their series. Hilarious to think that some people in the past have actually tried to claim that the only reason I ranked it higher than the other 2 is because it went longer :lmao. Because you know, the longer a match the better is it! 

Been a while since I reviewed something non current (well, I've written bits here and there about matches elsewhere for the MOTD Poll I'm doing, but that's it), so I think if my DVD's show up tomorrow I'll definitely have to review them. Haven't seen the full Vengeance 03 event since it happened, only rewatched 2 matches from it since. Interested to see if it lives up to the hype as a top PPV of all time as a lot of people say it is.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

*Extreme Rules 2012*

Orton/Kane ****1/4*
Ziggler/Clay **1/4*
Rhodes/Show ****
Sheamus/Bryan *****1/4*
Ryback/Jobbers *1/2**
Punk/Jericho *****1/4*
Lalya/Bella *1/2**
Cena/Lesnar *****3/4*

What a show! In 2020, this show, WM 28 and Money In The Bank 2011 will for sure be looked back on as 3 of the greatest PPV's of the decade. 

The 3 main events were superb, 

Bryan/Sheamus - Loved every last bit of it except for the lack of a finishing stretch.

Punk/Jericho - Awesome street fight that the crowd was into and felt old school. Great face performance by Punk, and likewish with Jericho but a great heel performance. Great way to end a feud that could of been better, but one I still enjoyed nonetheless.

Lesnar/Cena - Lesnar looked like a beast, Cena played the underdog brilliantly. There was blood, stiff shots and sick spots; what more could you want in an extreme rules match? I dont care Cena won, Lesnar came out looking like a boss as everyone was talking about his destruction of Cena after. I cant wait to see Lesnars next performance, and I am sure that whenever it next is that the buyrates for said PPV will show that most WWE fans are looking forward to it to.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Question for you guys. Do you think No Mercy 2006 is worth buying. How are the matches?

And what would you guys say is worse. Wrestlemania 25, or Wrestlemania 27.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not sure if WM 28 will be looked upon as one of the top PPV's of the decade when its all said and done. Has the HIAC and Punk/Jericho, but nothing else was beyond good. I enjoyed the PPV a whole lot, but honestly outside of those 2 matches there wasn't anything worth seeing.

Not a huge fan of the Punk/Jericho street fight either lol. Would go ***1/2 MAX for it. Took ages for me to get into it, and the crowd were pretty dead unless a big move/weapon shot was happening tbh. But Sheamus/Bryan and Cena/Lesnar were fantastic.



Sparta101 said:


> Question for you guys. Do you think No Mercy 2006 is worth buying. How are the matches?
> 
> And what would you guys say is worse. Wrestlemania 25, or Wrestlemania 27.


NM 06 is definitely worth it. Hardy/Helms is good, Londrick Vs Stevens/Idol is a good tag match, Kennedy/Undertaker is great, Benoit/Regal is fantastic, and main event 4 way is really good.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Not sure if WM 28 will be looked upon as one of the top PPV's of the decade when its all said and done. Has the HIAC and Punk/Jericho, but nothing else was beyond good. I enjoyed the PPV a whole lot, but honestly outside of those 2 matches there wasn't anything worth seeing.
> 
> Not a huge fan of the Punk/Jericho street fight either lol. Would go ***1/2 MAX for it. Took ages for me to get into it, and the crowd were pretty dead unless a big move/weapon shot was happening tbh. But Sheamus/Bryan and Cena/Lesnar were fantastic.
> 
> ...


I think it will be looked back more on its historical significance rather than the matches. It had The Rocks return and the 'End of an Era' stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, I can understand that. If Rock/Cena had delivered then it might have had a good shot as being remembered as a great PPV match quality wise.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> No Mercy 07 was one of those shows that was best on first watch (preferably live, but a watch without spoilers is just the same). After that, some of the matches/moments aren't quite the same . As far as match quality goes, only really remember the LMS match being good (great, actually). HHH/Umaga wasn't bad, but nothing special. Finlay/Rey wasn't as amazing as it could have been. Rest of the show is pretty garbage tbh (don't remember the first HHH/Orton match though).


I ended up seeing it live when it happened with a friend and being disappointed until the main event. The Punjabi Prison match might be the only match I've ever actually dozed off to. :side:



Sparta101 said:


> Question for you guys. Do you think No Mercy 2006 is worth buying. How are the matches?
> 
> And what would you guys say is worse. Wrestlemania 25, or Wrestlemania 27.


No Mercy '06 is a really good show. And I would go with 25, but I'd put them as even.

25 positives: MITB, Steamboat's performance, HBK/Taker & a decent Edge/Cena/Show match.

27 positives: Edge/Del Rio, Rhodes/Mysterio, Taker/HHH & Orton/Punk.

So I'd say they're about even.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Awesome job *K1ngOfK1ngs* on the Flair/Steamboat write-ups. I often find myself struggling to the magnificence of THE TRILOGY. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat is pro wrestling 'art' and their work in Chicago, New Orleans, and Nashville are five star wrestling masterpieces. Everyone wrestling fan should watch these matches.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks to the answer Cal. Another question. Does no Mercy 06 come with Lashley/Booker from Smackdown the week after the ppv? I remember that being a pretty good match that was supposed to main event No Mercy at first.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, only extras on the DVD are:

• Kristal Interviews Big Dick Johnson
• King Booker & Queen Sharmell Post Match
• Chavo & Vickie Guerrero Post Match
• MVP Promo
• Sir William Regal in the locker room


----------



## MarkOut4Barrett (Oct 13, 2011)

Just watched the documentary on the new Edge DVD and found it very interesting. I always thought that Edge would be a guy who would never want to be away from the wrestling buisness, but he actually doesn't miss it all. Now most people would be saying how much they miss the fans or how much more they wanted to accomplish. But Edge set a goal to win the WWE Championship as a kid and he sure as hell did that. And when he won that belt that was it for him, there was nothing else left that he wanted to accomplish. Now I admire him so much for being honest unlike most other guys because for most wrestlers with the tough schedule they have and to hardly be at home. They would surely be happy to be leaving, even though they would miss the fans, so they can enjoy freedom and do more things they want to do in life.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

A part of me wishes he was the kind of guy to crave the spotlight, because I selfishly want him to stick around. But yeah, the documentary as well as other interviews he's done, show that his mindset to his entire wrestling career is, "it was fun, but very exhausting", and he distanced himself from it somewhat because it's definitely over. The insight into his neck break and everything was done really well on the doc, and how it describes the loss of feeling he felt in his arms before announcing retirement just highlights what a physical toll it took.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

what are people's thoughts on MITB at Wrestlemania 24?
I just rewatched it and I'd definitely put it in the **** range easily, a ton of great spots, I enjoyed a lot of the Punk/Jericho action including the codebreaker on the ladder, spot of the match was easily Benjamin going from the top of the ladder through the ladder on the outside

Also this match really made me smile given that of the seven guys in the match only 2 are still in the company today, really thought all the guys in this match would at some point reach main event status


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 24 MITB is the second best imo, behind the first one.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have MITB IV at ****1/4 and it's my favorite of all of them. So many innovative and fun spots. Awesome amount of talent in the match too. It's so strange that out of the seven just Punk and Jericho remain. I was a big fan of the midcard back then with guys like MVP, Morrison, Benjamin, Kennedy, etc.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

MITB at WM 21 is my favourite, then its the SD one from last year.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I got into a mood for the Mysterio/Jericho 2009 series yesterday. I only have the first two on DVD, seriously debating on whether or not to buy that Best of PPV Matches 2009 Blu-ray to get the third. Anyway, my mini-reviews of the first two:

*Intercontinental Title*: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho - Judgment Day 2009
What a nice little surpise. As Jericho was getting situated on SD, and Mysterio needed an opponent for his IC Title, these two got paired off at a very work-rate-y PPV and probably stole the show.

Jericho is such a great heel, Mysterio displays his usual great work, and I love how towards the end they keep going for their finishers, especially Mysterio with the 619. The pace is nonstop, and the finish is really innovative. Great start to the series.

***1/2


*No Holds Barred Match for the Intercontinental Title*: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho
I like how this started as a NoDq and it ended that way, but the middle was all wrestling. Mysterio took the fight to Jericho, used part of the announce table as a weapon, kept hitting him with moves on the outside, and once they got settled, they wrestled.

Just like the RVD/Lynn matches, once these two have an exchange, the next match changes it up. So many great twists and counters, but it all made sense. I love the top rope move into the codebreaker, Mysterio jumping off the chair into a walls of Jericho (as well as a previous jump in the woj), Mysterio hitting him with the chair, and the finish is great. They really put over how Jericho did exactly what he said he was going to.

A different match from their previous, but also very different. A great sequel.

***1/2


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

A few things on last few pages I feel the need to respond to...

1] I have the "Faces of Foley" as well as "Hits & Misses", which makes me think about something I hate on DVDs overall: They keep putting out newer & better. As I said, I have the "Hits & Misses" set, & love it. (Anyone who has pic taken with Foley, bought autographed book, & follows him on Twitter would.) But it is not the "Hardcore" edition, or whatever they called that later one, so it doesn't have some of the other bonus stuff the later one does.

2] I had to laugh on review of Mania talking about if Rock/Cena had delivered. I felt that match very-much delivered what the lead-up made people want/expect (perhaps due to being in the live Cleveland crowd, & therefore expecting less). Punk-Jericho was everything a Title match should be. It was the HIAC that was like a literal living hell.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's likely to just be a placeholder image atm, but the actual cover could be Undertaker taking a shit for all I care. Covers mean nothing to me .

My DVD's and Bluray arrived :mark:. Gonna stick in Vengeance 03 and review it.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

This better be Undertakers last Wrestlemania then, because I dont want the same thing to happen like with the 15-0 dvd.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Sparta101 said:


> This better be Undertakers last Wrestlemania then, because I dont want the same thing to happen like with the 15-0 dvd.


I posted last night about my thoughts on WWE re-releasing DVDs, etc. That said, I am also betting that were I to search their "Ladder Match" compilations, as well as sets om Cena, Edge, Mysterio, & other stars, many matches would be repeated, whereas other matches have never been released.

Of course, anyone who reads my posts should know I don't care if he simply replaces Goldust as an agent or something, & never climbs in the ring again.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That is the most slack, half-assed Microsoft Word DVD cover I've ever seen. 



Hope they keep it. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWE Vengeance 27/07/2003*

Haven't seen this show in full since it aired. Often brought up as one of the best PPV's, and certainly one of the best single brand PPV's or all time. Hopefully it can live up to the hype, and looking at the card, if the 3 or 4 matches that look potentially awesome hold up, then I can certainly see myself joining everyone in their claims of this being awesome .

*Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - United States Championship*

:mark: What a way to start off the event! These guys are 2 of the main reasons (along with Undertaker) that I sooo adored Smackdown during this tme period. Just a bunch of great WRESTLERS competing in the ring to prove themselves as the greatest WRESTLER while still being able to throw in personal rivalries and whatnot. Awesome booking 101. Heyman was in charge of SD around this time, right? 

They do a lot of trading holds back and forth with a few pin counters and whatnot too early on. Some people like that, some people don't. Personally, I enjoy it most of the time and I definitely enjoy it here. Helps that both men put in some little touches to everything they do to stop it being so robotic like you got in the Angle/Benoit matches. It not Regal/Finlay/Benoit, but its still good. Plus both men countering things plays into the fact they've known each other for so long, travelled the world, trained together and wrestled each other numerous times in the past. Always better to have an actual history like that when working an "equals" style match like this.

Eventually the back and forth action turns into an Eddie control segment. I love how he starts getting cocky and decides to chop Benoit... who returns the favour... so Eddie just walks over to him and gouges his eye out :lmao. Makes Eddie look like a DICK and plays into the buildup for this match, as Eddie tries to blind Benoit a week ago or something.

Eddie's control segment doesn't last nearly as long as I would have liked, but fuuuck, the whole finishing stretch is just tremendous. Overbooked? Yeah, probably, but good god its awesomely fun. Eddie tries to lie, cheat and steal the title on numerous occasions, the poor referee gets beat up about 3 times, and then Rhino charges in right at the end and GORES Benoit to hell. :lmao at Eddie's reaction. He sees Rhino running for the Gore and thinks he's aiming for HIM, so he just turns and cowers in hopes it won't be so bad, only to realise Benoit got hit. He shrugs his shoulders and takes advantage anyway, winning the US Title!

Awesome opener. Eddie was just incredible with his antics and facial expressions. Benoit was his usual self, which is a great wrestler and intense as fuck, and they work really well together here. These two guys are usually hit and miss together, but not here.

*Rating: *****


*Jamie Noble Vs Billy Gunn - Indecent Proposal Match*

If Noble wins... he gets to shag Torrie on Smackdown. Not every storyline can be a winner, but I'll be dammed if I wasn't invested in this and living vicariously through Jamie Noble .

Noble brings a briefcase with him that is apparently filled with sex toys and oils. Gunn steals it and opens it and we get a nice view of what's inside. Tazz claims that he stole Cole's briefcase .










Match itself is... well Noble is a great wrestler and Gunn is athletic so he bumps alright and hits a couple of nice moves lol. DDT from the ropes by Noble looked awesome, but Nidia made sure Gunn's leg was on the ropes, as she doesn't want her boyfriend sleeping with another women. In the end though, Torrie actually ends up costing Gunn the match by mistake, and she has to shag Noble on Smackdown! Totally remember that episode too lol. Crazy shit happens .

*Rating: ***


*APA Invitational*

A bar scene is build at one side of the stage, and its time for the APA ot beat the shit out of half the Smackdown roster! And the Easter Bunny. Brian Kendrick standing on the bar and dancing to people's theme music as they enter is awesome. Brother Love! Doink the Clown! Woooo!

Brother Love cuts a pretty awesome promo, then takes out 2 random people with a bar stool . Kendrick gets knocked from the bar through a table. LOL. Sean O'Haire punching the Easter Bunny in the face might be the greatest thing ever.

Match is... insane. People taking crazy arse bumps and drinking beer. Awesome. Ton of fun. APA win obviously . I think I might love this more than anyone else in existence.

*Rating: ****


*The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio - Tag Team Championship*

Hope this lives up to the hype!

Nope. Lol. It was good, but just way too moves-y for my liking. The stuff with Kidman's back was great and really could have been a turning point in the match, but it just didn't last nearly as long as I would have liked, and it wasn't long before Rey was back in the ring flying about. Felt like they were trying to capture the epicness of the No Mercy 2002 tag, and while they got the fast paced action down, they forgot to really tell a story too lol.

:lmao the "BULLSHIT" chant when Hass kicked out of a big double team move from Kidman and Mysterio. Also, HOLY SHIT. Cole calls his fans the Cole Miners! I didn't think he came up with that until his heel turn lol.

*Rating: ***1/4*


*Sable Vs Stephanie McMahon*

Well, time for a bad match on the card. No PPV can be perfect .

At least both women are hot. And wearing somewhat revealing outfits. Commentary is like on giant innuendo too. Makes it interesting to watch lol.

Part of me certainly liked this one .

In all seriousness though, its... not actually that bad. They have plenty of HATE~! and throw some stiff shots (slaps, forearms, elbows etc) no doubt to make it look as good as possible considering Steph isn't a wrestler and Sable is about 4 years past her prime. Gotta love Stephanie trying to get Sable's tits out. Again. She already did it on Smackdown, might as well do it now. Referee gives Sable is shirt to cover her up, while A-Train motherfucking RUNS OVER Stephanie to help Sable win. Holy fuck at that lol. Stephanie took it like a MAN. A very hot man. With tits. And a Vagina. A women, one might say.

*Rating: ***


*The Undertaker Vs John Cena*

Build up video for this match is great. Remember this feud pretty well from back in the day lol. Wasn't a fan of Cena even back then, but he definitely didn't suck in this feud. And from what I remember, he most certainly didn't suck in the match either.

This is all about respect, and Undertaker is determined to beat it out of Cena, and fuck does he do a great job early on. Some wicked shots from the Dead Man. Referee tries to get Undertaker away from Cena at some point and ends up jumping across the ring to get away from a very pissed off Phenom lol. Always love that spot in Undertaker matches .

Match actually looks like its going to be a total SQUASH, with Undertaker dominating Cena entirely and then landing a HUGE chokeslam, and going for the pin. Looked like it was over, but Undertaker wanted to punish Cena more so he picks him back up, which ends up being a HUGE mistake from the veteran! Cena then takes his time to expose one of the turnbuckles, and it looks like he took TOO long, as Undertaker gets back up and begins to destroy Cena again, but the turnbuckle comes into play and Cena gains control. Undertaker's ribs are the target of Cena's assault, and he does a great job working them over. Undertaker is bleeding internally, and keeps fighting back in desperation. He knows he needs to get back into this match and end it quickly, something he had the chance to do earlier but didn't follow up on.

Undertaker takes one hell of a beating, including a shot to the ribs with a chain and an F-U! He barely kicks out, and Cena gets majorly pissed off, and makes a mistake by mounting 'Taker in the corner, and gets a Last Ride! Match is over.

Great, great stuff. Another great example of Undertaker putting someone over without actually losing. Plus, he does get beat by Cena on Smackdown in a re-match not long after this. But yeah, Undertaker gets the win on PPV while Cena looks better than he ever has. Everyone is a winner here.

*Rating: ***3/4*


*Mr McMahon Vs Zack Gowen*

Match is what it is. Mr McMahon beating up a one legged guy. One legged guy makes comeback and Vince bumps to the best of his ability. Didn't do much for me. Worst match on the show, and the only actual bad match on the show too. Vince's blade job is pretty much THE only thing that is good lol.

*Rating: 1/4**


*Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship*

Classic "Big Show Vs The World" start to this one, which is always a ton of fun. Even against two of the companies top stars at the time, Show looked like he could legit destroy them both and take the title if he wanted to, and that makes the match a whole lot more interesting. Show Vs Angle and Lesnar was a nice way to set up Lesnar and Angle working together to take out the bigger man (and they begin with weapon shots and then hit a double chokeslam!), and then move from there to both of them turning on each other because they both want the title.

Pretty sure Tazz calls Big Show a hooker at some point during this match lol. 

Lesnar hits a RUNNING POWERBOMB ON BIG SHOW. Ok, it was out of the corner, but still, he had the guy on his shoulders in a powerbomb position and RAN WITH HIM. Lesnar was a fucking beast. Big Show is hurt from that move, and then is finally taken out of the match for good with an Angle Slam through a table. Angle Vs Lesnar time! They became friends after the WM match, but this is for the title, and friendship don't mean SHIT.

Oh hey, Big Show does come back into this match lol. He breaks up Angle Vs Lesnar and double chokeslams both of them! Lesnar and Angle are up about 20 seconds later exchanging punches with each other. LOL. Angle hits the Angle Slam on Show, then on Lesnar and picks up the win. Didn't enjoy this as much as I did on last watch tbh, but its still a good triple threat match, and its a great piece of the Angle/Lesnar story which leads into SummerSlam superbly.

*Rating: ***1/2*


Overall, a fantastic PPV. Only ONE bad match on the card. Everything else is at the very least fun. Opener is MOTN, with Undertaker/Cena coming in close.


----------



## TJChurch (Oct 7, 2011)

Man, KC; Thanks for that. (Being sarcastic.) Was reading some of that post, & thinking I might try to YouTube some of it. Then, thought, & remembered I have the DVD... Here, I had already thought of watching the new Rock or Edge DVD docs this weekend. (Does it say something I have more interest in both of those than "Over The Limit"?!)


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just rewatched Wrestlemania 24 for the first time in ages, I'd forgotten just what a great show it was and it is definitely number 4 on my list (behind 17, 19, 18).

Finlay v JBL - ***1/2, really good brawl to open the show, some great little spots, JBL really was an unbelievably good heel and got a lot of heat here.

MITB - ****1/4 maybe ****1/2 - my favourite MITB, so many good spots

Batista v Umaga - ** - an ok brawl and the Batista Bomb at the end was insane

Kane v Chavo - just like Bryan v Sheamus this year this can't be rated

Shawn Michaels v Ric Flair - ****1/2- a masterpiece plain and simple, amazing story telling and great action, the ending was perfect

Beth Phoeniz/Melina v Maria/Ashley - * - typical divas Wrestlemania match

Randy Orton v HHH v John Cena - *** - not a bad match but not a great match, some good action but should have been a lot better

Floyd Mayweather v Big Show - ***3/4 - I actually really enjoyed this match, it told a good story and was a lot better than I expected it to be

Undertaker v Edge - ****1/2 - A great main event, really underrated imo, Edge played such a great heel and the crowd was really into the match

Overall just a great show, even the backstage stuff wasn't as bad as it usually is at Mania


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat: The Trilogy*

_Match 3: Wrestlewar: May 7th, 1989_

Here we go, I've heard many individuals (including Triple H) claim that this is the greatest match of all time, lets see how it holds up. The build to this match was greater than any other match in the series, as everyone knew this was the final encounter. They take the womanizer vs family man story to a whole new level, as Flair has about FORTY women accompany him to the ring for his entrance. The first thing I notice about this match is it's pace, they're working at that insane Flair vs Steamboat pace that is unmatched by any two competitors in the industry. The beginning of the match gets the fans more involved than the previous match as well, when Flair and Steamboat duke it out in a chop battle. The chops still aren't as vicious as Chi-Town Rumble, but there are about 10 times more of them. 

Now we get to my favorite part of the match; Steamboats arm work. In the previous match, Steamboat made Flair tap out to the standing chicken wing submission, and in this match, Steamboats offense is centered around working on the left arm of Flair to set up the chicken wing once again. I love how they throwback to the previous matches and add certain elements to it. For instance, just like the other two matches, Steamboat teases a dive outside of the ring onto Flair, but the referee stops him everytime. However, in this match when the referee goes to stop Steamboat, Steamboat pushes the referee out of the way and begins to get aggressive. The drama in this match is at a greater high than the other two matches because we know this is the last encounter, so that adds to the match.

Where this match isn't as good as the other two varies. For instance, this match has better psychology and matwork than Chi-Town Rumble, while it isn't paced as good and the crowd isn't as hot. When comparing it to the COTC battle, this match has better drama and better nearfalls, but the matwork and psychology of the Clash battle triumphs over it. At the end of the day though, that 's what makes the series to special; every match is near-perfection and tell the same story in different ways. This is more of a face-face encounter than the previous two, where Flair goes full heel mode. One last thing: Steamboat's selling and Flair's bumping are phenominal, and are some of the best in the entire series. Flair takes back the title in a nod to the Clash match, where Steamboat goes for a slam and his injured knee buckles. Amazing storytelling. Do I think this is the greatest match of all time ? No, as a matter of fact it's my least favorite of the trilogy, but that obviously dosen't make it the worst.

It's a work of art and *ONE* of the greatest matches of all time.

*******


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Steamboat has said in the past he thought Flair and him could have/should have had a final blow off match after WrestleWar since he did lose the World's Championship, but Flair and Funk had the perfect introduction to their feud here. Maybe they could have held it off instead of instantly shifting to the next program but it still was greatly executed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just decided to keep watching The second disc of TURFC

*Ric Flair vs Terry Funk: I Quit Match: Clash of the Champions IX*

If Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat was an indication of what wrestling as an art form is supposed to be, than Ric Flair vs Terry Funk is an example of what wrestling violence is all about. Flair shows his versatility in this brutal match, that honestly reminds me of an older version of the WM XXVIII end of an era match between The Undertaker and Triple H. Not that the matches have anything in common, but what makes both matches so great are the SUPERB storytelling and intense violence. The story here is simple: Funk is insane, and broke Flair's neck, now Flair needs to do what seems impossible; make Terry Funk say I quit.

For 1989 standards, and even by today's standards, this match is stiff and brutal. The psychology complies with the storytelling PERFECTLY, as Funk beats down on Flairs neck and sets up for a piledriver, but before he pulls the trigger he asks Flair does he want to quit. The way Funk says "Remember your neck Ric ? You don't want me to hurt your neck again do you?" is storytelling and drama so compelling, but it's actually congruent with the storyline. What can I say about some of the spots in this match ? A piledriver on the floor, steel barricade shots, and one of the most brutal suplexes to the outside that I've ever seen puts the icing on the cake for this match. 

For a long time in this match we believe that Funk might actually win this, because lets be honest; Did anyone visualize Funk actually saying I quit ? Funk takes some absolute brutal bumps in this match while protecting Flair very well, an all around fantastic job. Flair uses some leg work and after trying for a long time, actually manages to hook the figure four to make Funk quit. Better storytelling and drama than the Steamboat series, and incredibly violent, if the build was a little better it would get the full five stars from me, but nonetheless, this is probably my favorite Ric Flair match. Fantastic. 

***** 3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Cena Vengeance 03: ****

Love this match. Taker (and Angle for that matter), from Cena's first match, to Taker showing him respect, to Taker putting Cena over majorly in their feud to Cena's feud with Angle later on in 03 really helped elevate Cena and were probably the two men responsible for Cena rising as high as he is. From what Cena gained from Taker and Angle in credibility, his popularity and cred sky rocketed and he became the top guy of the company by late-2005.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> That's likely to just be a placeholder image atm, but the actual cover could be Undertaker taking a shit for all I care.


Would it rest in pieces? See what I did there? 

That cover is ok. This dvd makes no sense unless A. the streak is over and Taker is going to lose next year to the Rock (JK about the last part...just wanted to piss you off Cal) or B. if Taker retires which I want him to.......no topping WM28, perfect ending


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

How long does it usually take for Silvervision to ship outside the UK? The Netherlands in this case.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Would it rest in pieces? See what I did there?
> 
> That cover is ok. This dvd makes no sense unless A. the streak is over and Taker is going to lose next year to the Rock (JK about the last part...just wanted to piss you off Cal) or B. if Taker retires which I want him to.......no topping WM28, perfect ending


Wouldn't mind if he retired but I feel like they'd make it more official. Although Taker is a special case that they could do without that.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Just starting to download a torrent of every PPV from 2001 , any particular shows people recommend? or favorite matches from this year?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR, NWO, WM, BL are a great string of PPV's. After that each PPV has at least ONE match really worth watching, with some fun ones and a couple of decent-good matches. Definitely check out Tajiri/Regal from Unforgiven and Tajiri/Rhino from Survivor Series. First one is short but sweeeet as fuck, second is longer and is really good shit. As for other matches, well you can usually tell just by looking at the card and who was involved in the matches as to what is good.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

2001 PPV quick thoughts:

Royal Rumble - Awesome show, solid opener, WWF title match was really good, IC title match and the rumble match are both awesome and the Women's match is really short so no problems there.

No Way Out - Personally I don't think too much of the 3 stages of hell match but many people have it hovering around 5 stars so it's probably worth it for that. I enjoy the WWF title match and the IC title match well enough though.

Wrestlemania - I think it goes without saying that this show is worth watching.

Backlash - Personally I really like this PPV but that is because I really like the Angle/Benoit match and the main event. I hear many varying opinions on these matches. All the other matches are enjoyable and the Last man standing match has Shane jumping of the tron so there is that.

Insurrextion - I would just avoid this if I were you.

Judgement day - Overall very solid show with nothing bad on it. Taker/Austin would be the standout.

King of the ring - Really good show. The main event is really good even in spite of what happens at the end and Shane vs Kurt is absolutely awesome. Everything else is at least solid.

Invasion - Don't care for anything on this show apart from the main event. Not a good show.

Summerslam - Angle/Austin is awesome and would be in my top 5 Kurt matches. Everything else is good or solid apart from the steel cage match which is fucking awful.

No Mercy - Jericho/Rock is awesome and the main event is really good

Rebellion - I don't remember even seeing this even though I'm pretty sure I own it lol

Survivor Series - Cage match was good and the main event is great

Vengeance - The only match I've watched since this PPV happened is Jericho/Rock and they have a great match together as usual. Don't remember anything else apart from not enjoying the main event when it happened.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Anyone got any thoughts on No Mercy 2002 I am planning on ordering it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Anyone got any thoughts on No Mercy 2002 I am planning on ordering it?


Worth the money for the tag title match and HIAC. Got it myself in the post yesterday lol. No idea what the rest of the event is like, haven't seen it in full in years. Tajiri/Noble sounds like it could be awesome on paper though.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Which is the best flair dvd or blu ray set if I'm mainly interested in seeing all the goat matches from flair?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Is the steamboat trilogy on there?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just 2 of them I think (Chi-Town is the missing one). Don't think that's on a Flair set. Its on the greatest wrestlers of the 80's set or whatever its called though, and I *think* the Rise and Fall of WCW set.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I seem to remember a hum-dinger of a match between flair and mr.perfect from back in the day, can't recall the event though, don't think it was one of the grand slams I.e mania, im probably wrong as its been many years lol, maybe 1991/92 sometime, anyone else recall?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

You're talking about their Loser Leaves WWF match which was Flair's last match in the WWF before he went back to WCW. It aired on 01/18/1993. The match is on the Raw 15th Anniversary DVD (clipped) and Best of Raw '93 & '94 set (in full).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> You're talking about their Loser Leaves WWF match which was Flair's last match in the WWF before he went back to WCW. It aired on 01/18/1993. The match is on the Raw 15th Anniversary DVD (clipped) and Best of Raw '93 & '94 set (in full).


thanks for tha mate!!


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Jesse Ventura has been reportedly muted on the Clash Of The Champions home release. = (

- Vic


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*Anything Goes Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship*: Randy Orton vs. John Cena

I loved this match when I watched it live and I love it now. I can understand why it doesn't rank as high as some of their other matches for a lot of people, but I also don't think it deserves any of the scorn that it's earned.

First and foremost, the match is never boring. The situation and story is always changing and escalating, building nicely to the end. I love Cena getting the stf and Orton tapping immediately to save his energy, then catching Cena with an RKO. They had a nice double pin move, then it gets violent. They brawl around the ring, there's an awesome top rope AA, so it makes perfect sense when Legacy interferes. Better to get it out the way early lest it ruin the end, and here it made sense. They get chased off, but Orton has the advantage.

Here's where I think people have a problem. Orton tries to blow up Cena. Literally. This part is so over the top it's ridiclous. I mean, we're supposed to accept that Orton is literally going to try to KILL Cena. It's just too silly. Then what? He blows him up...and how exactly does he pin him? Too stupid.

Then the match goes back on track. Orton tries to avoid Cena to beat the clock, Cena beats the crap out of him, gets an AA off onto a table, evens the odds.

A lof of people have a problem with the ending, but it made sense. Orton just couldn't hold on any longer. Everyone thought he'd hold on and the match would go into sudden death. He didn't. He couldn't. He's a heel, and Cena had just beaten the shit out of him. The suspense was that Cena got the win at the last minute. 

There's so much I love about this match. The quick submission, the RKO out of nowhere, the double pin, the top rope AA, the fact that it really looked like anyone's get throughout the entire match. It was truly very boring, and just plain entertaining. I think the pyro spot took a bit for me, it's just too attitude era silly for my taste, but the match bounces back at the end to make this one of my favorites.

I liken this match to big sequel to a great movie. The original may be the actual _best_ movie, but sometimes you get a sequel so big and entertaining, that you find that one more fun than the original, which is still better.

Their SummerSlam match remains their best and one of the best matches of 2007, but this was just _fun_.

***3/4


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley- Hardcore/Falls Count Anywhere Match for the Intercontinental Championship
Backlash 2004*

This has to be one of the most underrated Hardcore matches of all time and that's not a stretch. Both guys told a great story here with after months of psychological torture from Orton, Foley wanted to outright kill him. Some sick blows with the Barbed Wire Bat and the Barbed Wire Board. The highlight of the match is easily when Foley countered the RKO and slammed Orton on the thumbtacks, Orton looked like he went into shock. Then to follow it up with throwing Orton off of the stage through the tables followed by the elbow drop, they did a fantastic job of making you believe that Foley was going to win the Intercontinental Championship. I haven't seen this match in years but it still holds up to date and goes without saying, made Orton.

****1/4


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

Honestly I fail to see how that street fight is underrated. Pretty much every rating I've seen for it has been around the 4 star mark.

Anyway I got home from the pub about half hour ago and decided to watch a little personal favourite of mine. Chris Benoit vs Kane Badd Blodd 2004. Probably my favourite one on one Kane match ever and is actually one of my favourite Benoit matches aswell(which I think says a lot). I really fucking love this match and I feel it is the perfect example of a match playing off the build up. I'll probably give more detail tomorrow when I've sobred up but for now i'll stick with JUST FUCKIN WATCH IT!!!


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

I wouldn't say the Foley/Orton Streetfight is underrated as most everyone that has seen it says its awesome. 

I think the better word would be overlooked because it doesn't get talked about as much as you'd think and it was genuinely awesome.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Finished watching *Backlash 2001* for the first time tonight.










Dudley Boyz (w/ Spike) vs. X-Factor - ****
Rhyno vs. Raven for the Hardcore Championship - ****
William Regal vs. Chris Jericho - ****
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle in a 30 minute Ultimate Submission match - *****
Shane McMahon vs. Big Show - **** [Could of sworn I saw this same match/result at Judgment Day 2000]
Matt Hardy vs. Christian vs. Eddie Guerrero for the European Championship - ****
Two Man Power Trip vs. Brothers of Destruction for the Tag Team, Intercontinental, & WWF Championship - ****

Overall: ****










*WrestleMania X-Seven*

Chris Jericho vs. William Regal - ****
Tazz & APA vs. RTC - ****
Kane vs. Big Show vs. Raven for the Hardcore Championship - ****
Eddie Guerrero vs. Test for the Intercontinental Championship - ****
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - *****
Chyna vs. Ivory for the Women's Championship - ***
Shane McMahon vs. Vince McMahon - *****
Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz for the Tag Team Championships in a TLC match - *****
Gimmick Battle Royal - ***
Undertaker vs. Triple H - *****
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock for the WWF Championship - ******

Overall: *****

[Note: One of the all-time memorable WrestleMania's for me because of Austin vs. Rock, one of my all-time favorite wrestling matches. The matches weren't terrible but they weren't deserving of three or more stars compared to the excellent match-ups of Angle vs. Benoit, Rock vs. Austin, Hardyz vs. Dudleyz vs. E&C. Taker and Triple H was very impressive but I was reluctant of giving them *** just because there two other matches in the more recent WrestleMania's were far better than the one that took place here, but to be fair it was a good match.]

In the reviewing mood tonight so why not more.










*Money in the Bank 2011*

SmackDown! Money in the Bank Ladder Match - *****
Kelly Kelly vs. Brie Bella for the Divas Championship - ***
Mark Henry vs. Big Show - ****
Raw Money in the Bank Ladder Match - **** 1/2
Christian vs. Randy Orton for the World Heavyweight Championship - *****
CM Punk vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship - ******

Overall: *****

[Note: One of the better Pay-Per-View's of the filler 2011 year. Punk vs. Cena was a classic, on the edge of your seat match that brought out the best in both men. I remember people being a bit skeptical of Punk winning just because WWE is known to screw the fans but this one was a great surprise with Punk winning and "walking out" with the title in his hometown.]










*Survivor Series 2011*

Dolph Ziggler vs. John Morrison - ****
Beth Phoenix vs. Eve for the Divas Championship in a Lumberjill match - ****
Team Barrett vs. Team Orton in a classic 5 vs. 5 Survivor Series match - ****
Big Show vs. Mark Henry for the World Heavyweight Championship - ****
CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio for the WWE Championship - **** 1/2*
The Rock & John Cena vs. Awesome Truth - **** 1/2*

Overall: ****

[Note: Despite the lack of genuine buildup for Rock/Cena vs. Awesome Truth it was the only match on the card that I was highly anticipating because of Rock finally wrestling again. The match was okay, it was great seeing Rock out there again but the lack of him wrestling and Cena taking a beating for 15 minutes was brutal, especially since two Raw's before Survivor Series Cena beat up Awesome Truth by his damn self. Cena getting his ass beat was dragging on a bit. Rock comes in the final minute with the hot tag and the eventual win exactly how everyone expected this match to be.]










*Judgment Day 2000*

Rikishi & Too Cool vs. Edge & Christian & Kurt Angle - ***** [Excellent opening match.]
Eddie Guerrero vs. Perry Saturn vs. Dean Malenko for the European Championship - **** 1/2*
Big Show vs. Shane McMahon in a Falls Count Anywhere match - **** [We'll be seeing this same result in a future PPV ]
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho for the Intercontinental Championship in a Submission match - **** 1/2*
Road Dogg & X-Pac vs. Dudley Boyz in a Tables match - ****
The Rock vs. Triple H for the WWF Championship in a 60 minute Ironman Match - ****** 1/2*

Overall: ***** 1/2*










*Fully Loaded 2000*

Hardy Boyz (w/ Lita) vs. T&A (w/ Trish Stratus) - ****
Tazz vs. Al Snow - ****
Eddie Guerrero vs. Perry Saturn for the European Championship - ****
Edge & Christian vs. APA for the Tag Team Championships - ****
Val Venis vs. Rikishi for the Intercontinental Championship in a Steel Cage - **** [Rikishi was damn impressive here.]
Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker - **** 1/2*
Triple H vs. Chris Jericho in a Last Man Standing match - *****
The Rock vs. Chris Benoit for the WWF Championship - ***** 1/2*

Overall - **** 1/2*










*SummerSlam 2003*

La Résistance vs. The Dudley Boyz for the World Tag Team Championships - *** 1/2*
Undertaker vs. A-Train - ****
Shane McMahon vs. Eric Bischoff - ** 1/2* [Love me some Shane but the match was dragged out as long as Coach's random heel turn.]
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno vs. Tajiri for the United States Championship - **** 1/2*
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar for the WWE Championship - *****
Kane vs. Rob Van Dam in a No Holds Barred match - ****
Triple H vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash vs. Shawn Michaels for the World Heavyweight Championship in a Elimination Chamber match - ****

Overall: ****

[Note: Felt weird typing this today and having the World Heavyweight Championship title being the main event on a PPV knowing the position it's in in today's WWE world, but I guess WWE today feels if the champion isn't John Cena then the title doesn't matter... that's a discussion for another time. Elimination Chamber 2003 really lacked compared to the amazing debut it had in Survivor Series 2002. The ending was such bullshit with the usual Triple H burying everyone with Evolution backing him up. Goldberg absolutely destroying everyone just to have Triple H lying in the corner the whole match and pin him for the win. A heel thing to do non-the-less but it's a bit of a disappointment.]










*WrestleMania X8*

Rob Van Dam vs. William Regal for the Intercontinental Championship - ****
DDP vs. Christian - *** 1/2*
Maven vs. Goldust for the Hardcore Championship - *DUD*
Kane vs. Kurt Angle - ****
Undertaker vs. Ric Flair - **** 1/2*
Edge vs. Booker T - ****
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Scott Hall - *** 1/2*
Billy & Chuck vs. APA vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz for the Tag Team Championships in a Elimination Match - ****
The Rock vs. Hollywood Hulk Hogan - ******
Jazz vs. Trish Stratus vs. Lita for the Women's Championship - ***
Triple H vs. Chris Jericho for the Undisputed Championship - ****

Overall: ****

[Note: Backstage politics didn't want Rock vs. Hogan to main event which was awful decision as it was the match everyone was anticipating. Jericho vs. Triple H was okay but it wasn't a solid main event because the whole world knew Triple H was gonna win. It was nice of WWE to put Jericho in the main event of WrestleMania in his home country but Jericho at that time wasn't really ready for the big push, at least in my opinion. It has to be one of the last WrestleMania's where WWE had the whole putting the title match last on the card in place of the big anticipated matches tradition. I mean could you really see WWE putting Jericho vs. Punk last instead of Rock vs. Cena at WrestleMania?... of course not.]










*WrestleMania XXVIII*

Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan for the World Heavyweight Championship - *DUD* [Sad, sad match...]
Kane vs. Randy Orton - ****
Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes for the Intercontinental Championship - ****
Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos vs. Beth Phoenix & Eve - ***
Undertaker vs. Triple H in a Hell in a Cell match - ******
Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy - *** 1/2*
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho for the WWE Championship - *****
The Rock vs. John Cena - **** 1/2*

Overall: **** 1/2*

[Note: Taker vs. Triple H's classic match, Jericho vs. Punk, and Rock vs. Cena definitely raised the overall score of the PPV.]










*WrestleMania XV*

Hardcore Holly vs. Billy Gunn vs. Al Snow for the Hardcore Championship - *** 1/2*
Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett vs. D'Lo Brown & Test for the Tag Team Championships - *** [Really weird tag teams...]
Butterbean vs. Bart Gunn in a Brawl for All match - *DUD* [Uh... bathroom break? Boxing match in a Pro-Wrestling event?]
Mankind vs. Big Show - *** 1/2*
Road Dogg vs. Ken Shamrock vs. Goldust vs. Val Venis for the Intercontinental Championship - *** 1/2*
Sable vs. Tori for the Women's Championship - ***
Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac for the European Championship - *** 1/2*
Undertaker vs. Big Boss Man in a Hell in a Cell match - *** 1/2*
The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin for the WWF Championship - *****

Overall: ***

[Note: Lackluster as hell WrestleMania especially during the rise of the Attitude Era. Really weird card with random wrestlers wrestling each other, a pointless Hell in a Cell Undertaker match, Blue Meanie and Ryan Shamrock fighting ringside over Goldust, Triple H joining the Corporation..., "shoot" boxing match in a Pro-Wrestling event. Thank goodness for Rock vs. Austin waking me up from being damn near half asleep watching. The event as a whole hasn't aged well.]










*WrestleMania 2000*

Big Boss Man and Bull Buchanan vs. Godfather & D'Lo Brown - ****
Hardcore Battle Royal for the Hardcore Championship - *** 1/2*
T&A vs. Al Snow & Steve Blackman - *** 1/2*
Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz for the Tag Team Championships in a Ladder match - *****
Terri Runnels vs. The Kat - *DUD* [As if Kelly Kelly vs. The Bella's wasn't horrible enough in today's WWE.]
Too Cool (w/ Chyna) vs. The Radicalz - ****
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle for the Intercontinental & European Championships in a Two-falls match - *****
Rikishi & Kane vs. X-Pac & Road Dogg - *** 1/2*
Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show for the WWF Championship - *****

Overall: ****

[Note: Scratched off a half star off the main event due to the stupidity of booking Triple H over The Rock in the height of the Attitude Era and the popularity of The Rock. Stupid enough to book it a fatal four way match in the first place instead of just Rock vs. Triple H. Don't really care about the McMahon's in each corner as much as some others do. It was cool to see Vince come out with Rock but it was obvious he was turning on him because he's always been an evil asshole. Rock got his after the match but the booking decision was dumb as hell, in my opinion.]










*Backlash 2000*

Edge & Christian vs. X-Pac & Road Dogg for the Tag Team Championships - ****
Dean Malenko vs. Scotty 2 Hotty - **** [These two impressed the hell out of me. Unexpected good match.]
Big Boss Man & Bull Buchanan vs. APA - *** 1/2* [Can APA ever win one?]
Crash Holly vs. Matt & Jeff Hardy vs. Hardcore Holly vs. Perry Saturn vs. Tazz for the Hardcore Championship - ****
Show-mania vs. Kurt Angle - ***
T&A vs. The Dudley Boyz - ****
Eddie Guerrero vs. Essa Rios for the European Championship - ****
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho for the Intercontinental Championship - *****
The Rock vs. Triple H - ***** 1/2*

Overall: ****

[Note: Awesome main event with Austin coming back and the crowd exploding. Rock and Austin sharing a beer together after the disastrous WrestleMania 2000 main event booking decision was worth the wait.]


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Wrestlemania XXVIII*

_Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus_

What can I say about this match ? It's literally just a Brogue kick and a win for Sheamus, which REALLY pisses me off because this was the match I was looking the most forward to besides the HIAC match. I would normally give these matches a N/A rating, but FUCK that. Imagine if we had to get the match these two had at Extreme Rules, at Wrestlemania. This show could have been LEGENDARY. Fuck WWE for this.

*DUD*

_Kane vs Randy Orton_

I was half-pumped for this because I was a huge fan of Kane's work ever since he came back with the mask (especially the matches with Cena), and Randy has been great in the ring over the last few years so I was legitimately excited. What we got was a pretty good match between two popular wrestlers, with some stiff shots and good nearfalls. Orton really hits Kane with some majorly hard shots to the back in this one, and the same goes with Kane, he absolutely DECKS Orton a few times out there.

Loved the first chokeslam near-fall, and I was a huge fan of how Orton couldn't get the RKO no matter how-hard he tried. The story was basically that this time around, Kane is more psycho than Orton, and Orton can't handle it. Simple story I guess, but it makes for a pretty good match. Although I prefer the Extreme Rules match these two had, this was a solid bout.

*** 3/4*

_Cody Rhodes vs Big Show_

This match has a basic big man vs small man structure with the whole match consisting of either Show beating on Rhodes, Rhodes running away from Show, or Rhodes working the legs of Show. Very basic here, but we get a nice little match between one of WWE's giant mainstays and one of WWE's biggest up and comers. The leg work by Rhodes was decent, but the match wasn't really long enough for him to really exploit it. Just a short, entertaining match, decent.

****

_Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos vs. Beth Phoenix & Eve_

Just look at those four names, does this LOOK like it's gonna be a good match ? It wasn't, but it was miles ahead of what I thought it was gonna be, which is amazing because at the time Maria was suffering through broken ribs and other various injuries. Kudos to her for going through with her commitments and actually taking a few bumps. Basically, this whole match consists of Maria getting beaten down on, then there's a comeback, and voila. What makes this match not so bad is actually Maria's selling. She HAD to be legitimately hurt, because every move looked like it was about to kill her. When Kelly Kelly is the worst worker in a celebrity match, you know you have a problem.

** 1/2*

_The Undertaker vs Triple H: Hell in a Cell w/ Ref Shawn Michaels_

Ever since 2005 I had been clamoring for an Undertaker vs Triple H HIAC match, and once we reached the PG era, I was upset that I would never get to see my dream match come to fruition. So when this match was announced, I damn near almost lost my mind, and what we got for a match.....Was simply a work of art. This match will go down as the greatest piece of Wrestling storytelling and drama of this decade (and yes I know that it's only 2012), what can possibly top it ? This is the end of a story arc which began at WRESTLEMANIA 24 ! It's INSANE to have a story last that long in the modern WWE. From the entrances to the lowering of the cell, both of these men know they're going into a war.

I like how these two don't lock up, they just start firing away with strikes. That tells me that this isn't a traditional wrestling match. This match is absolutely brutal, as both men take beatings outside on the floor and off the cage. The match gets REALLY intense when a steel chair is incorporated in the match and Triple H begins to just get DESTROYED with it, as Undertaker is determined to avenge his moral loss from last years Mania. But, enough with the play-by-play, let's talk about the brutality. At the end of this match, Taker's back is so messed up from all the chairshots and stiff strikes that he looks like one big sliced up piece of meat. Triple H is slightly cut (not a blade job) which added another dimension to the match. 

The bread and butter in this match, however is the storytelling. Shawn Michaels does an amazing job of being the mediator that tries to keep things clean, but can't do it because he is so emotionally invested. This was an absolute WAR, one of the biggest wars in WWE history, which also included a moment where I legitimately believed that the streak was over (SCM into the Pedigree). What can I say about this match that hasn't already been said ? It's the closest thing to a piece of drama that the WWE has produced in a VERY long time. While I might prefer the WM 27 encounter SLIGHTLY, this match had a perfect blend of story and brutality. A must watch for any wrestling fan, and the clear cut MOTN (and honestly, unless there's a ***** match this year, this isn't being topped)

***** 3/4*

_Team Teddy vs Team Johnny 12 man tag-team match_

To say this match is a glorified mess would be an understatement. The action in the ring was quite decent, as some of the performers gave it their all to try and tell a story to the audience (Kofi, Ziggler, Booker are examples), but with so many people involved in a NON elimination tag team match, it is hard to become emotionally invested in any of these personas.This match is a very entertaining watch, because of the actual action that takes place by the likes of Kofi/Ziggler. There are a few decent spots too, such as the triple dive outside of the ring. Not very many wrestlers on each team received a specific amount of attention, and hell, Team Johnny Captain David Otunga wasn't even officially in the match ! Just a breather match to calm the crowd after the HIAC, so quite harmless, but a very MEH match.

*** 1/4*

_CM Punk vs Chris Jericho_

When I first watched this match live, I wasn't very impressed with this match at all because I felt that Jericho had little momentum going into this, and that made the match seem a little anti-dramatic for my liking. On a rewatch, however the way that these two wrestlers mix storytelling with exceptional workrate makes this match a classic. Jericho has one of the best heel performances I've seen over the past few years in this one, playing out his strategy against Punk to a tee, while Punk must keep his cool with Jericho or risk losing his title in the process. The way Jericho just wants Punk to go off so he can claim the championship is such a heelish thing to do and I absolutely love it.

The counters/workrate in this match is just insane. Frankensteiner into a walls of Jericho, Walls of Jericho into an anaconda vice, springboard clothesline into a codebreaker, etc, these two gave it their all in the ring, and it really showed up in this one. A few good nearfalls in this one also, but I feel that the live crowd must have underestimated this match while it was taking place. Definitely main-event worthy, story/workrate heavy, the best "WRESTLING" match of the night. A classic in my mind in every sense of the word.

***** 1/4*

_The Rock vs John Cena_

Being a Cena fan, I was excited to see how this match would play out, as Cena has built a reputation of being one of the WWE's best big-match workers. All I have to say about this match is two words: Fuck Rocky. That's not biased either, because I don't even hate The Rock at all, but DAMN did he suck in this match. This is honestly one of the biggest carry jobs that I've ever seen, so for people to say that John sucks in the ring kind of pisses me off now. Rock looked so out of place in the ring (not properly selling, being extremely sloppy, etc) that if he was wrestling ANYBODY besides John Cena, the match would have been a disaster. 

That being said, however I think this match is pretty good due to the efforts of Cena. The psychology in this match is average at best, the storytelling is pretty good, the workrate is meh, but what makes this match is obviously the crowd. This wasn't Rock vs Hogan, but the crowd stayed loud all match long until the great climax that we were given. That basically sums up this match in a nutshell to me; bad build up to the climax, but a fantastic climax and a match that kept the crowd crazy the entire time. I had this at **** originally, but on a rewatch I decided to knock it down because of how bad Rock truly was in this. All that being said, a pretty damn good match here, but one of the biggest carry jobs I've ever seen.

**** 1/2*

_Thoughts_

This show gave us two (and to some people, three) instant classics that will be remembered for a very long time, and a pretty good (however underwhelming) main event. If the WWE had given Sheamus and Daniel Bryan 20 minutes, this show could have easily been one of the greatest of all time. However, WWE's shady decision making takes a show that had the potential to be AMAZING, and bumps it down to a show that is GREAT but not an all-time classic. Out of 8 matches, FIVE of them are lower than 3 stars.

It seems to me that this show is really top-heavy. The HIAC, Punk vs Jericho, and Rock-Cena are all classics in their own right that NEED to be seen (Rock vs Cena due to historical purposes and crowd reaction), but everything else is just so bland and not Wrestlemania worthy. Definitely a top-10 mania, but this show is one of the hardest to grade that I've ever seen. Personally, I love this PPV solely for the main 3 matches, and since they combine for about 70 percent of the show (just did the math), this PPV is pretty damn great.

*8.5/10*


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Ordered Cyber Sunday 2008. Now I only need Night of Champions to complete all the 2008 ppv's.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Who do you guys think had the best PRIME as an all-around performer ALL-TIME ? I think I'd have to go with Ric Flair in 1989. THREE ***** classics with Steamboat, TWO **** 1/2-**** 3/4 encounters with Funk, and fantastic tag matches at Halloween Havoc 1989 and COTC 8. His micwork was really top notch and unparalled by anyone else in the industry at this point. At Starrcade that year he had a match that Sting that I wasn't really a fan of (But I was never a fan of the Sting/Flair series so that's that), but outside of that, every single appearance that Flair made either in the ring or on the mic was worth watching.

Besides that, who do you believe is currently in their primes in the current WWE ?


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Who do you guys think had the best PRIME as an all-around performer ALL-TIME ? I think I'd have to go with Ric Flair in 1989. THREE ***** classics with Steamboat, TWO **** 1/2-**** 3/4 encounters with Funk, and fantastic tag matches at Halloween Havoc 1989 and COTC 8. His micwork was really top notch and unparalled by anyone else in the industry at this point. At Starrcade that year he had a match that Sting that I wasn't really a fan of (But I was never a fan of the Sting/Flair series so that's that), but outside of that, every single appearance that Flair made either in the ring or on the mic was worth watching.
> 
> Besides that, who do you believe is currently in their primes in the current WWE ?


Hard to tell who's in their prime in WWE today... I'd say Punk? He's put on a classic with Cena at MITB, had good matches with Mark Henry on Raw which was surprising, his matches vs. Jericho were all fun, the triple threat at Hell in the Cell last year was really good.

Rock was also on his game back in 2002 having great matches at Vengeance, SummerSlam vs. Brock, vs. Flair on Raw, Hogan at WrestleMania, his promo's were all top notch and funny. 2000 was also a great year from him during his series of matches vs. Triple H. But I'm just being biased.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

C&P from elsewhere:

Just watched Angle/Cena from No Mercy 03. Great fucking match. Might even throw a nomination at it. Cena looked... probably the best he's ever looked while actually controlling a match. Sure, its not that often he's been able to do it pretty much since he face turn just a few weeks after this match (pretty strong Cena chants during this match btw), but still. He's still shit at working rest holds lol, but luckily I think he only actually does one here. He gets a ton more offence in on Angle than he did against Undertaker at Vengeance, and I think that's why I like this match more. He really shows what he's capable of, which is kind of a shame because he hasn't looked like that in fuck knows how long. Yeah, he pulls out some great performances in big matches most of the time, but again, those are different because he's not controlling the match. Does some nice mid section work on Angle first, which makes sense to set up to the F-U, then when Angle tries to German Suplex him from the arpon to the announcers table, the quickest reversal Cena could do was a DDT onto the apron (which looked sick), and that opened up the opportunity to work over Angle's neck which is always a smart thing to do because its fucked lol. Awesome powerbomb into the turnbuckle. Angle took that one like a champ. And Angle was fucking good in this too. No "Angle-isms" or whatever. He did do his "jump to the ropes for a suplex" spot, but not after a finisher, and he wasn't able to hit it anyway so it didn't bother me in the slightest. They each kicked out of the other's finisher, but not in an annoying kinda way or anything, just your typical WWE Main Event style match. The way Angle goes into the Ankle Lock for the finish is pretty cool, and Cena looked strong as fuck in defeat. Probably around ****1/4 for it, good chance of making my bottom 20. Would have probably been top 50 on my WWF/E List too, not sure if I actually even watched it back then. If I did I obviously didn't think as highly of it.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

*WrestleMania XXVII*

Edge vs. Alberto Del Rio for the World Heavyweight Championship - **** 1/2*
Cody Rhodes vs. Rey Mysterio - ****
Kofi Kingston, Santino Marella, Big Show, Kane vs. The Corre - *DUD*
Randy Orton vs. CM Punk - **** 1/2*
Michael Cole vs. Jerry "The King" Lawler - *** (Dragged way too much.)
Triple H vs. Undertaker - ***** 1/2*
Trish Stratus, Snookie, John Morrison vs. LayCool & Dolph Ziggler - ***
John Cena vs. The Miz - *** 1/2*

Overall: ****

[Note: Had to give Edge vs. Del Rio a half star more even though I wasn't really too intrigued by the match, but it was Edge's final match unfortunately and I can't give it lower than three stars. And Cena vs. Miz match was ridiculous.]


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Watching the bryan/henry cage match from that horrendous holiday special smackdown once again and I fondly remembered how awesome henry's monster heel run as WHC was. 

Awesome match between these two, bryan plays an incredible babyface and this run is the best work of henry's career. There is this really awesome sequence where it goes lebell lock, henry counter where he uses his brute strength then sells the lebell locked arm, then a bryan counter into an ankle lock where it really looked like bryan had a chance of winning.

Good finish as well with henry looking like a monster, bryan makes henry look like a machine, and henry really sells bryan as a legitimate threat and a really great babyface vs monster heel dynamic.

Henry's heel championship run is one of the best wwe title runs in years. Really good matches along with a great character equals an awesome title run

Plus the whole bryan/show/henry dynamic is pretty much booked to perfection which leads to bryan's awesome heel turn and entertaining WHC title run


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

** for that Ryder/Kane match on the Pre-show just now.

Pretty good back and forth.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just some OTL first time watch ratings:

Christian vs. Cody- ***1/2
-Loved the in ring work and couldn't understand why the crowd wasn't getting into it. It wasn't a huge match or anything, but I think they deserved better. In any event I did enjoy the match and I would love to see more between these two.

Orton vs. Sheamus vs. Del Rio vs. Jericho- ****
-Excellent four way that was fun to watch, had great in ring action, a great crowd, and some decent build (great when compared to the WWE Title match). The ending was a bit bland, but overall I enjoyed the match a lot and I wonder where they'll go from here. I'd assume Sheamus/Del Rio and Orton/Jericho... but I really don't know.

Punk vs. Bryan- ****3/4
-This is what pro-wrestling is all about. Fantastic in-ring work/wrestling, psychology, selling, crowd, and they told the best story they could considering they really didn't have much a story to work with. The ending was a perfect way to continue the feud, and overall I put this as my MOTY by a mile. I knew this match would be great, but I wasn't expecting to enjoy it as much as I did. Seriously, a masterpiece of a match and with the way it ended, we're guaranteed another. 

So yeah... also Brodus/Miz was decent enough for what it was, and the tag match seemed good, but I wasn't paying full attention to those. Overall though a great PPV imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Over The Limit:

Kofi/Truth vs Swagger/Dolph - ***1/4
Layla/Beth - *3/4
Sheamus/Orton/Del Rio/Jericho - ***3/4
Brodus/Miz - *3/4
Christian/Rhodes - ***3/4
Punk/Bryan - *****
Cena/Johnny - *

- The opening being the battle royal already in progress was fucking weird. But the tag team division looked really good in it and Tyson Kidd shined. Not a bad match at all.

- Opening tag match was good but I liked the Air Boom vs Swag/Zig series better.

- Layla/Beth wasn't too bad although Layla was a little sloppy.

- Fatal four way match was really entertaining. Thought the finish was a tad anticlimactic but overall it was really good.

- Brodus/Miz was ok. Brodus' second best match as the Funkasaurous after the Ziggler one.

- Christian/Rhodes was awesome. Both of these guys have great chemistry with each other and Rhodes might have the best moonsault I've ever seen. Christian being a face is fucking awesome too.

- Giving the full five stars for Punk/Bryan. Crowd was AWESOME. The match itself was amazing and it really had everything. Last time I found myself enjoying a match so much was Punk/Cena.

- Missed the Hunico match.

- Cena/Johnny was meh. Wrestling standpoint it was as expected. The beatdown was sort of lame but I didn't hate the ending. Cole was actually really good on commentary.

Awesome show overall.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

*Over the Limit 2012*

20 Man "People Power" Battle Royal - *** 1/2*
Kofi Kingston & R-Truth vs. Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger for the Tag Team Championships - **** 1/2*
Layla vs. Beth Phoenix for the Diva's Championship - ****
Brodus Clay vs. The Miz - *** 1/2*
Chris Jericho vs. Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio for the World Heavyweight Championship - **** 1/2*
Christian vs. Cody Rhodes for the Intercontinental Championship - ****
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan for the WWE Championship - ***** 1/2*
Ryback vs. Camacho - *** (How can you rate a squash?)
John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis - *DUD*

Overall - **** 1/2*


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Some ratingz~ for Over the Limit tonight. Enjoyed the show despite the awful buildup and the main event. The two matches I expected to deliver did just that and then some. And Punk/Bryan was just mind blowing. This match has to be a great deal for anybody who has followed these two their entire careers. 

Kofi Kingston & R-Truth vs. Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger for the Tag Team Championships - ***1/4
Layla vs. Beth Phoenix for the Diva's Championship - **
Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio - ***3/4
Brodus Clay vs. The Miz - *
Christian vs. Cody Rhodes - ***1/2
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan for the WWE Championship - ****1/2
Ryback vs. Camacho - *
John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis - DUD

Which leaves my current MOTY top 10 list looking like..

1. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: Undertaker vs. Triple H_ - ****1/2
2. _Over the Limit 2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****1/2
3. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
4. _Extreme Rules 2012: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
5. _Extreme Rules 2012: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****
6. _WWE RAW 4/2/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ****
7. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: John Cena vs. The Rock_ - ***3/4
8. _Over the Limit 2012: Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio_ - ***3/4
9. _WWE RAW 4/16/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ***3/4
10. _Elimination Chamber 2012: RAW Elimination Chamber_ - ***1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm currently not on my PC with my MOTY list, but right now it's probably something like:

1) Punk/Bryan OTL
...
...
2) Punk/Jericho WM
3) Bryan/Sheamus ER
4) Lesnar/Cena ER
5) Orton/Sheamus/Del Rio/Jericho OTL
6) Punk/Jericho ER
7) Taker/HHH WM
8) Punk/Henry Raw night after Mania
9) Punk/Ziggler RR
10) Raw EC

Something like that, but not 100% sure.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Five stars is way to much. Great contest but it isn't even the best match this year. I will admitt though they did a fantastic job giving a lot of leeway for their next match and I LOVED the psychology. 


The match also makes me want to watch Austin/Hart from Survivor Series for some reason.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Caponex75 said:


> Five stars is way to much. Great contest but it isn't even the best match this year. I will admitt though they did a fantastic job giving a lot of leeway for their next match and I LOVED the psychology.
> 
> 
> The match also makes me want to watch Austin/Hart from Survivor Series for some reason.


**** 1/2 is good enough.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow, better than Sheamus/Bryan?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd say so, HoL. Give it a watch when you have a chance. (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Wow, better than Sheamus/Bryan?


I'd say so rather easily, and I thought Sheamus/Bryan was a fantastic match itself.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Easily better than Sheamus/Bryan. In my opinion at least. 

Just rewatched the match. Fuck, it's a near 25 minute match and it goes by in an instant. These guys could easily work 3 hours and still have a few things to show off.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Punk/Bryan was excellent tonight. I love how they worked the dueling injuries into the match along with the submissions, counters, and various pin attempts. Everything they did made for a thrilling match. What a ride it was and the crowd was correct when they chanted "This is awesome!" because Punk and Bryan put on a great wrestling showcase. ***** 1/2*


EDIT - I enjoyed the tag titles, diva match, and 4-way too. Didn't really enjoy Christian/Rhodes other than Cody's moonsault but they might have better matches in the coming weeks. Battle Royal was nice to get some guys you usually do see on PPV get a little shine. 4-way was typical structure but fun to watch. Plenty of good spots in the match and I really dug ADR putting Orton in the armbar from the Viper stance. Main event was terrible. I guess Cena/Show is going to main event over Punk/Bryan again at No Way Out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Saw the show tonight, here are my preliminary ratings (these ratings mean basically nothing until I get the DVD in a month or so and have myself a rewatch and I do an actual write-up).

*Over the Limit 2012*

Kofi/Truth vs Zig-Swag: **** 1/4*
Layla vs Beth Phoenix: *** 3/4*
Sheamus vs Jericho vs Del Rio vs Orton: ******
Brodus Clay vs The Miz: ** 1/2*
Christian vs Cody Rhodes: *** 1/4*
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan: ***** 1/2*
Ryback vs Camacho: *N/A*
John Cena vs John Laurinitis: ***

This show was great, WWE is on a fantastic PPV streak right now that should continue with No Way Out unless Show/Cena goes 15-20 minutes again. I absolutely LOVED the Womens match and the two championship matches. I was tempted to give Bryan/Punk **** 3/4 and I still might, I just have to rewatch it again. WWE absolutely RUINED the fucking show by having the obvious Big Show-dirty finish. Big Show is heel now, WHO CARES ?!?! He turns heel atleast 3 times a year now anyways. Great show with an all-time classic, a borderline classic, and a few good championship matches. Just, honestly, FUCK THAT FINISH.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk and Daniel Bryan beat the fucking shit out of each other and I loved evey second of it. Seemed like a love letter to Indy wrestling.

Four and a half blunt forearms to the face out of five.

Fatal four way was a lot of fun too.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I gave it a DL and skipped straight to Punk/Bryan, which was the only match I really wanted to see. And I honestly don't know what to say. I'm stumped in a good way. The match was so fast-paced, it went by in a blink. I almost feel like I didn't have a chance to enjoy it, or soak it in, they got so much stuff in. Which I guess is good.

The match started and it almost felt like it was already ending. There was no quiet feeling out process, they just started going for each other's injuries, and beating the hell out of each other.

To me, wrestling wise, this is what Punk/Jericho at WM should have been. See what they can do without a dumb stipulation added?

But yeah, this is just pure wrestling. Kind of sets a new standard for WWE Title matches. The match is just kind of surreal. I feel like how I felt when I watched Cena/Lesnar. There was just such an usual atmosphere, such a spectacle, that I don't know how to compare it to normal matches.

It was action-packed, stiff and realistic, gave us a good finish, but allowed a nice setup for a rematch.

I do feel like something is missing, though. I don't know what. Maybe it's because it went by so quickly I can't fully tell if it was a great match or not. I can't pinpoint specific points of the match, but maybe that's because it's so different from other matches.

I'm so used to WWE-Style matches that I'm used to soaking in the action. I feel like they could have been more inventive with the counters to each other's moves, but I could be wrong. I'm not even nitpicking, I'm just stumped.

I need to give it another watch. A rating can't do it justice right now. I know it was a very good match. I know I enjoyed it. I just wished I enjoyed it more. But I wonder if the reason I didn't enjoy it as much as I would have expected is the same reason that makes it such a great match in the first place. Does that make any sense?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Wow, better than Sheamus/Bryan?


Yeah.

It was a pretty good show overall. Even the divas were good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Punk - ****1/2. Awesome match. Gave ****1/4 to Bryan/Sheamus from last month, and honestly if the 3rd fall in Bryan/Sheamus didn't end so sudden I probably would have had these matches as equals. Would put Punk/Jericho ever so slightly ahead of Bryan/Punk atm. Awesome to see Punk and Bryan getting the chance (FINALLY) to just go out there and tear shit up.

Cena/Big Johnny was fun. Not good, but fun. Show helping Johnny was the most obvious thing since... I dunno, something obvious. Fuck you.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

So I re-watched Punk/Bryan, and it was even better the second time. Holy shit what a smart, fun match. Punk's leg work was great and I loved how Bryan gained control by outsmarting Punk. The rib work was awesome by Bryan and Punk's selling was so good, he was holding his ribs for pretty much the whole match during moves and everything. Bryan's leg selling was also great but Punk didn't work the leg hard enough for it to stop Bryan, even though he was always reaching to hold it and it was always the cut off point for Punk. One of the best things about the match was the way it showed Bryan to be Punk's toughest opponent ever. Punk is the best in the world at selling desperation and the effects of a match throughout, and this was probably his best performance in the company in that regard. The way he was getting more and more frustrated he couldn't put Bryan away, even using Nigel Mcguinness's signature move, Bryan's toughest opponent ever. Theres no way that wasn't Punk and Bryan paying tribute to Mcguinness. They beat the tar out of each other too, it seemed like they really wanted to punish the other guy, especially those sick forearms that Bryan threw early on, and then Punk doing the same thing later in the match. Bryan's offense looks so sick, those knees are brutal looking and he really knows how to make it seem realistic. Both guys just going straight for certain body parts was awesome and the transitions between work overs were great and flowed perfectly. I love how they are really putting Bryan over as the smartest and most brutal wrestler in the company, I'm sure that's how everyone wanted him to be booked and right now WWE are doing an amazing job getting Bryan over based purely on his ring work, and holy shit is he over or what? He was getting more cheers than Punk from the crowd. Talking of the crowd, they were awesome. The loud dueling CM Punk/Daniel Bryan chants, the YES chants and the this is awesome chants. This was pretty surreal to see in a WWE ring, it wasn't a WWE style match at all, but the crowd absolutely loved it, and it wasn't as if it was a known smark heavy crowd either. The finishing stretch was great with both guys becoming more and more desperate to win and the finish itself was slightly anti climatic considering the rest of the match, but it was really good in setting up the rematch(s) which I think everyone wants to see so it worked fine, and came off even better on a re watch since I knew what the finish was. A sick, sick match with awesome storytelling, psychology, selling and perfectly executed. But when you have the two best workers in the company (or in the US), you're going to get something great. Give these guys a little longer with a proper, hotter finishing stretch and they will create a masterpiece. *****1/2*

This is WWE MOTY easily for me, and the US MOTY too.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

20 Man Battle Royal - *** 1/4*
Layla vs. Beth Phoenix - ***
Miz Vs Brodus Clay - *** 1/2*
Tag Team Championships - **** 1/2*
Fatal 4 way - ***** 3/4*
Christian vs. Cody Rhodes - *****
Bryan vs Punk - ***** 1/2*
Cena vs. Laurinaitis - ****

Sheamus/Bryan ER > Punk/bryan OTL btw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart VS British Bulldog - Summerslam 1992

Watched this for the first time in ages today, still an amazing match IMO, brilliant work from both guys, one of my fave ever matches (im not just saying that being a Bret mark!!)

Amazing crowd, and of course great commentary by Vince and Heenan,

Also, after reading Bret's book, after not long into the match Davey said to Bret " Im fooked, i can't remember anything " Just all a magical moment.

Still close, if not a ***** for me.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Good review. I have not seen the ppv yet, but I really find it hard to believe that something can be better then Taker/HHH HIAC, Lesnar/Cena and Jericho/Punk from WM. I will have to check it out for sure.

Anyways, I just bought Money in the bank 2011. I have never seen this ppv before, so I cant wait since it has gotten so many great reviews.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Sparta101 said:


> Anyways, I just bought Money in the bank 2011. I have never seen this ppv before, so I cant wait since it has gotten so many great reviews.


:mark:

I'm excited for you.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah prepare to thoroughly enjoy MITB. Everything is at the least watchable and 90% of it is far above that.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Battle Royale: **1/2*
Kofi/Truth vs Zig-Swag: **** *
Layla vs Beth Phoenix: ****
Sheamus vs Jericho vs Del Rio vs Orton: ****3/4*
Brodus Clay vs The Miz: ***
Christian vs Cody Rhodes: *** 3/4*
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan: ***** 1/4*
Ryback vs Camacho: *DUD*
John Cena vs John Laurinitis: ***



Fuck that main event. I wouldn't have minded it as much if it was the penultimate match. Who wins with that going on last? The kids are disappointed, the men are given a shit match & it wasn't a shocking turn or anything.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - **** 1/4

Great match but it could have been better.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

People Power Battle Royal - **
Kofi/Truth vs. ZigSwag - ***
Layla vs. Beth Phoenix - **
Fatal Four Way - ****
Brodus vs. The Miz - Went to the toilet
Cody vs. Christian - *** -DAT MOONSAULT~!
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - ****3/4 - MOTY, IMO. Marked like a bitch at the "Ive got till 5" but Booker and King didn't fucking understand - "He's still got a smile on his face" SMH fpalm
Goldberg vs. Jobber #934 - DUD
Cena vs. Big Johnny - ***1/2 - Even though it was predictable as hell and it wasn't a great wrestling match, it was so much fucking fun to watch. Johnny sells better than the rest of the roster.

Great PPV, best of the year IMO, just slightly outweighs Wrestlemania. It felt like a more complete show, despite the lack of build up and the four unannounced matches. It was something about this show that reminded me why I am a wrestling fan. Amazing show, one of the best shows I've seen in a long time - definitely the best I've seen since MITB. Anybody who hasn't caught this show yet, go fucking see it.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Sparta101 said:


> Good review. I have not seen the ppv yet, but I really find it hard to believe that something can be better then Taker/HHH HIAC, Lesnar/Cena and Jericho/Punk from WM. I will have to check it out for sure.


Well to me Taker/HHH isn't really that good of a match. It was a great spectacle of a match, but for me it didn't have the in-ring work to match. The whole thing felt to much like a big angle rather than a wrestling match. Both Bryan matches were far superior in that regard which is what I really look for in a match, as well as storytelling. Bryan/Punk and Bryan/Sheamus had story telling in spades and the in ring work to match it. I thoroughly enjoyed the HIAC though don't get me wrong, but it wouldn't be in my top 20 of the year. I don't even know how to rate it tbh. Lesnar/Cena was awesome though, but I find that hard to rate too, probably around the **** area.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Watched Punk/Bryan again. Loved it even more. I'm nudging it to 5 stars. There was nothing bad about the match, and it put it's emphasis on the wrestling while still telling a (basic) good story. The match had everything besides good build, but honestly the good build only keeps it from being in the upper echelon of 5 star matches. This might be the lowest 5 star match I have, but it's everything I want to see in a wrestling match and then some. 

And my MOTY list is now:

1) Punk vs. Bryan OTL- *****
2) Punk vs. Jericho WM28- ****1/2
3) Sheamus vs. Bryan ER- ****
4) Punk vs. Jericho ER- ****
5) Punk vs. Henry Raw 4/2/12- ****
6) Undertaker vs. HHH WM28- ****
7) Orton vs. Sheamus vs. Jericho vs. Del Rio OTL- ***3/4 (down on second viewing)
8) Punk vs. Ziggler RR- ***3/4
9) Lesnar vs. Cena ER- ***3/4
10) Raw EC 2012- ***3/4

A few things:
-I'd say Punk vs. Bryan is a better version of Punk vs. Jericho from Mania, albeit with no build
-Punk/Henry being in my top 5 and at the rating it is isn't down to ring work, but rather the amazing psychology in the match and great storytelling. Maybe Henry's best match of his career. It's above Taker/HHH by a hair really, and if I put more weight in storytelling Taker/HHH would be above it.

Also... how many top 10 matches each superstar has:

Punk- 6 (1 EC)
Jericho- 4 (1 EC)
Bryan- 2
Sheamus- 2
Ziggler- 2 (1 EC)
Henry- 1
Orton- 1
Del Rio- 1
Cena- 1
Lesnar- 1
Miz- 1 (EC)
Kingston- 1 (EC)
Truth- 1 (EC)
Undertaker- 1
HHH- 1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top WWE Matches so far:

1. Undertaker Vs HHH WM - ****3/4
2. Jericho Vs Punk WM - ****1/2
3. Bryan Vs Punk OLT - ****1/2
4. Bryan Vs Sheamus ER - ****1/2
5. Lesnar Vs Cena ER - ****
6. Henry Vs Punk I Raw - ***3/4

Uhhh, not sure after that. Nothing else has reached the ***3/4 rating for me, and everything under it hasn't stuck in my memory too well lol. Punk/Henry III on Raw is close at ***1/2, as is... the first Bryan/Punk match from Raw I think it was, then their SD match? I forget which is which lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Undertaker vs. Triple H - Hell in a Cell Match - WrestleMania 28 - **** 3/4

Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules - **** 1/2

CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit - **** 1/2

Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - 2/3 Falls Match - Extreme Rules - **** 1/4 

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - WrestleMania 28 - ****+

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - Chicago Street Fight - Extreme Rules - **** 

The Rock vs. John Cena - WrestleMania 28 - *** 3/4


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Top 3 WWE Matches so far:

1. Undertaker Vs HHH WM - ****3/4
2. Lesnar Vs Cena ER - ****1/2
3. Bryan Vs Punk OLT - ****1/4


----------



## James Curran (Jan 19, 2011)

My top 10 so far - 

1. Undertaker vs. Triple H
Wrestlemania 28

2. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar
Extreme Rules

3. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan
Over the Limit

4. Sheamus vs. Orton vs. Del Rio vs. Jericho
Over the Limit

5. RAW Elimination Chamber match
Elimination Chamber

6. Smackdown Elimination Chamber match
Elimination Chamber

7. John Cena vs. The Rock
Wrestlemania 28

8. Royal Rumble Match
Royal Rumble

9. John Cena vs. Kane
Ambulance Match

10. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho
Wrestlemania 28.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just watched Bryan/Punk from last night, absolutely great match, it was exactly what Punk/Jericho at Mania should have been. Looking forward to seeing them attempt to top this next month. My top 5 WWE MOTY so far;

Punk v Bryan - OTL - ****3/4
Bryan v Sheamus - Extreme Rules - ****1/2
Undertaker v HHH - Wrestlemania - ****1/2
Brock v Cena - Extreme Rules - ****1/2
Punk v Jericho - Extreme Rules - ****1/4

I enjoyed Rock/Cena almost as much as Jericho/Punk but for very different reasons


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Over The Limit - CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan ****3/4
WrestleMania 28 - Undertaker vs. Triple H ****3/4
Extreme Rules 2012 - Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena ****1/2
Extreme Rules 2012 - Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan ****1/4
WrestleMania 28 - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4
Extreme Rules 2012 - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho **** - ****1/4
Royal Rumble 2012 - CM Punk vs. Dolph ****


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

WWE MOTY List thus far (Top 10)

1) Punk vs Bryan OTL- *****
2) HHH vs Undertaker WM28- *****
3) Lesnar vs Cena ER- ****1/2
4) Bryan vs Sheamus ER- ****1/2
5) Raw Elimination Chamber EC- ****1/2
6) Jericho vs Punk ER- ****1/2
7) Henry vs Punk III RAW 4/16/12- ****1/4
8) Punk vs Jericho WM28- ****1/4
9) Punk vs Bryan RAW 1/30/12- ****1/4
10) Smackdown Elimination Chamber- ****1/4

Yea, awesome year for WWE so far.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

My top 5 -

1. Taker Vs HHH WM
2. DB Vs Sheamus ER 
3. Fatal Four way OTL 
4. DB Vs Punk OTL
5. Brock vs Cena


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

*Over The Limit 2012
*
Battle Royale - **3/4*
_Fun way to kick things off, nice to see Christian return at last and hes a face which is great as WWE are low on them. Tyson Kidd came out looking very good with some nice spots. Solid Battle Royale I guess._

ZigSwag/Kofi&Truth - ***3/4*
_Good solid tag team match, Kofi looked brilliant here I thought. To make these titles more relevant they need to defend these titles on every PPV like the World Titles are. Keep these feuding over a few PPV's to make the teams look like actual tag teams, and build some other ones up while they go at it, its not that difficult._

Layla/Pheonix - **1/4*
_Solid diva's action I guess. I wonder when Kharma will arrive to destroy all the women again, the sooner the better in my opinion, as it will breath new life into the division._

Sheamus/Orton/Jericho/DelRio - ****3/4*
_Awesome match here, everyone looked decent. It was a fun match with some cool spots. Picked up very well in the last 5 minutes with action flying about everywhere. Good F4Way here._

Miz/Brodus - ***
_I have seen this match a thousand times and its been boring a thousand times. Give Brodus a feud and stop him going through the roster with ease. I don't mind The Miz, in fact I quite like him, and I see a face turn for him down the line._

Rhodes/Christian - *****
_Good match, that I was happy to see announced during the show. Suprised Christian won but I guess this means Rhodes can move up the card with MITB coming up and it means other midcard heels will get something to do with a face as the IC champ. And as we all know Christian is a great worker_

Bryan/Punk - *****3/4*
_Superb wrestling match, absolutely loved it. Reminded me of RR03 Benoit/Angle. 2 men telling a story through nothing else than pure wrestling. This is awesome._

Ryback/Camacho - ***
_Like Brodus, seen this before and its boring._

Cena/Laurinitus - *Dud*
_Awful match, awful ending, predictable, boring, why could they of not let Bryan/Punk main event? Hate this match and will never want to see it again._


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Just got to watching Over The Limit...

Battle Royal - *3/4
WWE Tag Team Championships: Kingston/Truth (c) def. Ziggler/Swagger - **3/4
Divas Championship: Layla (c) def. Beth Phoenix - **1/4
World Heavyweight Championship: Sheamus (c) def. Chris Jericho, Randy Orton & Alberto Del Rio - ****
Brodus Clay def. The Miz - *1/2
Intercontinental Championship: Christian def. Cody Rhodes (c) - **3/4
WWE Championship: CM Punk (c) def. Daniel Bryan - ****1/2
Ryback def. Camacho - 1/4*
John Laurinaitis def. John Cena - *

My top 5 matches of the year:
The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Hell in a Cell) - WrestleMania 28 (****3/4)
CM Punk (c) vs. Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit (****1/2)
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (Extreme Rules) - Extreme Rules (****1/4)
Sheamus (c) vs. Daniel Bryan (2 out of 3 Falls) - Extreme Rules (****1/4)
CM Punk (c) vs. Chris Jericho - WrestleMania 28 (****1/4)


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Top 5 WWE Matches of 2012*

Extreme Rules - Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - ****1/2
Over The Limit - CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - ****1/2
WrestleMania - Undertaker vs. Triple H - ****1/2
Extreme Rules - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****
Extreme Rules - Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - ****

Honorable Mention - CM Punk vs, Mark Henry I - ****

The reason for Cena/Lesnar being my top of 2012 is due to the fact that it felt totally different and I couldn't really compare it to anything I'd seen before. Just an epic brawl. Not seen the rest of OTL, just Punk/Bryan so other matches (such as the Fatal 4 Way) might find their way into the Top 5.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Layla vs. Beth getting below 2 stars?

I think it's deserving of two stars. They finally gave them more than 2 minutes to wrestle and both women were pretty impressive. I wasn't mad at the end because Layla's neckbreaker actually looked devastating.


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit - ****1/2

It is now my MOTY.

2) Cena vs. Lesnar - ****
3) HHH vs. Taker - ****
4) Jericho vs. CM Punk - Street Fight - ****
5) Jericho vs. CM Punk - WrestleMania - ****

What a year for matches so far.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Anyone else think that Punk/Jericho from WM doesnt get enough love on here?

MY MOTY list.

1. Undertaker vs Triple H (WM 28) - ****3/4
2. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) - ****1/2
3. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WM 28) - ****1/2
4. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules) - ****1/4
5. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules) - ****1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sparta101 said:


> Anyone else think that Punk/Jericho from WM doesnt get enough love on here?


I do. I think their ER match gets a little overrated. Wasn't nearly as good as their WM bout for me, and wouldn't make my top 10 matches of the year overall, and probably not even for just WWE atm. Was still good, but not great or anything. WM on the other hand is still my second best MOTY.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century Blu-ray for £7.99

Yay or Nay?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century Blu-ray for £7.99
> 
> Yay or Nay?


Worth the money for this alone:

60 Minute Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
SmackDown! 18th September, 2003

And I think its actually in FULL as well, as in footage from the commercial breaks is shown too. Think I might pick it up 2morrow too, actually .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Worth the money for this alone:
> 
> 60 Minute Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
> Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
> ...


I bought the DVD last week, havn't had chance to watch it yet, but the main reason was for this match tbh...


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

KingCal said:


> I do. I think their ER match gets a little overrated. Wasn't nearly as good as their WM bout for me, and wouldn't make my top 10 matches of the year overall, and probably not even for just WWE atm. Was still good, but not great or anything. WM on the other hand is still my second best MOTY.


I agree. Their Extreme rules match seemed a bit sloppy. their WM match on the other hand was just epic and a real classic. The first few minutes are about the DQ stip, but after that it turns into one amazing match with a great crowd, and very believable near falls. I remember thinking at so many points that the match would end.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Worth the money for this alone:
> 
> 60 Minute Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
> Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
> ...


If it does turn out to have the wrestling during the commercials as well, can you upload the match?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Worth the money for this alone:
> 
> 60 Minute Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
> Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
> ...


They've got my money (again).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> If it does turn out to have the wrestling during the commercials as well, can you upload the match?


Nope, getting the bluray version and I don't have a bluray drive in my pc. Think I have a copy of the DVD version lying around somewhere though that I got from Platt a while back...


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century Blu-ray for £7.99
> 
> Yay or Nay?


its worth it man, superstars talk about guys like austin, rock, jeff hardy, etc and alot of great matches a deff buy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

BTW, yeah, you get the FULL 60 Minutes!!


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Over The Limit - Fatal 4 Way ***1/2

I love ADR, his in ring ability is pretty solid. Too much hate on that guy. Btw, Sheamus, I'm really struggling to enjoy him at the moment, couldn't sell for shit in this match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

While having a few good matches this year and the awesome 2/3 falls match, much of the interest I developed from Sheamus last year has worn off since around the time of Survivor Series. Dunno why but I guess I'm not a huge fan of face Sheamus.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I didn't find anything wrong with Sheamus's selling, and I think the F4W is ***3/4 at the bare minimum, in fact I'd probably give it ****. But Brye I agree on that side of him, it was awesome when he originally flipped face, then he lost to Mark Henry (which baffled me) then they went the completely opposite direction and had everybody lose to him, and then he pretty much became the arrive-FELLAA-leave machine. The "feud" vs D-Bry was extraordinarily uninspiring. But the program he's headed into with Randy Orton actually looks great and I've found their interactions the highlights of RAW the past few weeks. That, plus our new Intercontinental Champion in Christian, may just be enough to sway me to start watching Smackdown again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the 4 way today for the first time, would go ***. Was just kinda there, then a finishing stretch out of nowhere and then it was over. How long did the match last, because it felt reeeeaaally short while I was watching it.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Reeealy short like it's a bad thing? Interesting, I'm the exact opposite. It probably went 15-20 minutes.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Ratings for Cyber Sunday 2008?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Ratings for Cyber Sunday 2008?


Not sure on anything except these two matches:

Taker/Big Show LMS- ****1/4
Jeff/HHH- ***1/4 (The weakest by a bit of their three PPV bouts imo)


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What are the best dvd sets to get plenty of 80s wrestling?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Seems I might have to try to fish out the Greatest Stars of the 21st Century on Blu-Ray here in Canada so I can catch some of those matches, ESPECIALLY the full 60 minutes of Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle from Smackdown. There's a huge selling point for me.



KingCal said:


> Watched the 4 way today for the first time, would go ***. Was just kinda there, then a finishing stretch out of nowhere and then it was over. How long did the match last, because it felt reeeeaaally short while I was watching it.


It went a little more than 15 minutes. I really enjoyed it personally which is the reason for my high ranking of it. I just liked all the action involved in the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

greendayedgehead said:


> Reeealy short like it's a bad thing? Interesting, I'm the exact opposite. It probably went 15-20 minutes.


Sometimes when a match feels short yet goes a long time, it can help it, but here I just felt like the match flew by with absolutely nothing good happening until the final minutes lol. I'm actually really surprised to hear that it went around 15 minutes lol. Seriously felt like under 10 to me . Not sure if more time would have helped it or not; I just think they should have done better with the time they got. Just didn't like it too much lol.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I don't like the Brock/Kurt iron man match as much as everyone seems to. Sure, it's a good match but its one of my least favourite Iron Man matches to date.

Brock seems totally gassed really early on. I don't know what it is, but it feels like a long hour to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Maybe because its an hour long? :side:  Bret Vs Shawn, now THAT'S a long bloody hour!

I consider it to be the best Iron Man match, just ahead of Steamboat/Rude 30 minutes and Rock/HHH 60 minutes.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Sometimes when a match feels short yet goes a long time, it can help it, but here I just felt like the match flew by with absolutely nothing good happening until the final minutes lol. I'm actually really surprised to hear that it went around 15 minutes lol. Seriously felt like under 10 to me . Not sure if more time would have helped it or not; I just think they should have done better with the time they got. Just didn't like it too much lol.


Oh, yeah, I get ya. They mostly did the ring switcharoos for the first half, which are somewhat ehh but also necessary to prevent the inevitable clusterfuck from happening. There was a bit of a Jericho/ADR alliance, and then the ending sequence that heavily featured all four men. The end was a clusterfuck, but the good kind. Reversals and finishers and reversals to the reversals, I really enjoyed it. More time would have harmed, rather than helped it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The commentary didn't help the match either. King was actually confused as to why Jericho and Del Rio were helping each other, because "its not an elimination match". When the fuck did he get so damn retarded? :lmao

It was no Backlash 07 4 way anyway . More of a Backlash 08 4 way, except it felt too quick, and the BL 08 match dragged on forever. And had eliminations. So working together made sense there :side:.

On an unrelated note, I think my painkillers have kicked in .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Could anyone recommend a few Great Muta matches to look out for?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Could anyone recommend a few Great Muta matches to look out for?


No. Well, he has a couple. I'm sure. I remember one being not bad. Forgot who it was against. Maybe Barry Windham? Honestly in 99.9% of the matches I've seen the guy in, he's fucking sucked . He should just be called Muta cos there ain't nothing great about him.

Edit: Arn Anderson Vs Great Muta - Power Hour 12/01/1990 . Not Windham, but close enough, another Horsemen .


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> The commentary didn't help the match either. King was actually confused as to why Jericho and Del Rio were helping each other, because "its not an elimination match". When the fuck did he get so damn retarded? :lmao
> 
> It was no Backlash 07 4 way anyway . More of a Backlash 08 4 way, except it felt too quick, and the BL 08 match dragged on forever. And had eliminations. So working together made sense there :side:.
> 
> On an unrelated note, I think my painkillers have kicked in .


King has been suffering from dementia for a while now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love the Backlash '07 four way. One of my favorite matches.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Backlash 2007 Fatal 4 Way was awesome as was the PPV.

Hell Backlash 2008 and 2009 were fucking immense too. I miss it but I do enjoy Extrene Rules, it's consistently good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash '04, '05 and '06 are really good too. 

Love Backlash PPVs. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 00 is one of the greatest PPV's of all time. 01 is a ton of fun. 02... don't remember anything from it outside of Eddie/RVD which was great and Austin/Undertaker which only me and about 2 other people thought was good .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Off to watch the first disc of the COTC DVD I picked up today, which means that I have to watch Flair vs Sting again, a match that I remember being very MEH on. Looking forward to a few matches on this, should have one of the first reviews posted Thursday-Fridayish so that makes me very excited.

On the whole "Backlash/Extreme Rules" ordeal, in the WWE Era (03-present):

2003: Average
2004: PPV of the Year
2005: Great
2006: Good
2007: Great
2008: Good
2009: PPV of the Year
2010(Extreme Rules): Good
2011(Extreme Rules): Good
2012(Extreme Rules): FANTASTIC

PS: I've been hunting through previous pages to try and find that "Top 100 WCW matches" list that Cal posted quite a while back. Could somebody post it in a spoiler or something? I'd be most interested in reading it again.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Don't know if you guys read my ratings... but how are they?

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/11472013-post2495.html

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/11474181-post2501.html

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/11477809-post2506.html


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Could anyone recommend a few Great Muta matches to look out for?


I agree with Cal that Mutoh isn't good (never has been, really), but some of his US stuff is worth watching:

-v Flair (11/18/89)- Shortish fun TV match, and it's Ric Flair in 1989. So yeah.
-w/Slater v Flair/Sting (Clash VIII)- My favourite Mutoh/Muta match ever. Flair in 1989 again (so yeah), and this is a really, really great tag that's fun as hell. Everyone should watch this.
-Cal mentioned the Arn match; it's great, yeah. Definitely the best Mutoh singles in the US.
-v Sting 3/9/89- I was surprised by how much I liked this. That's all I have to say. 
-v Sting (GAB 89)- Don't like this as much as the other, but it's good fun.
-How many matches does he have at Starrcade 89? One v Flair and one v Sting? I remember all of the Flair/Sting/Muta combo matches at 'cade that year being OK, however many there were.
-You might like the Halloween Havoc 89 Thunder Cage or w/e bullshit it was. Flair/Sting v Funk/Muta (I think?). I thought it was good for a match with such a dumbass stip.
-He has a half hour draw or something v Brad Armstrong (from WCW Saturday Night, 5/30/92). 30 minutes of Muta is way more than I can handle, so I haven't watched it yet, but if you like Muta you'll want to see it. Gets good feedback from people who have opposing Muta views to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Forgot about this in my earlier post....

Thoughts on the COTC I Flair vs Sting match ? What would you guys give it from a stars perspective ?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2011)

i'm gonna try to start a subtopic with in the thread. List your WWE DVD collection.
Now Way Out 2004 - Main Event Brock Lesnar V Eddie Guerrero
No Mercy 2004 - Main Event JBL VS Undertaker Last Ride Match
Vengeance 2005- Main Event Triple H V Batista HIAC
King Of The Ring 2002- Main Event Undisputed Title Undertaker V Triple H
Judgement Day 2005- Main Event JBL V John Cena I Quit Match
No Mercy 2001- Main Event WWF Ttle SCSA V RVD V Kurt Angle
Vengeance 2001- Main Event Undisputed Title SCSA V Jericho
WWF Invasion- 2001 Main Event The Inaugural Brawl
Survivor Series 2001 Team WWF VS Team Alliance
Armageddon 2002- Shawn Michaels V Triple H 2/3 Falls
Wrestlemania 24 Main Event Undertaker V Edge
Triple H King of Kings 2 disc DVD
Viva La Raza the Legeacy OF Eddie Guerrero 3 disc
The Rock Most Electrifying 3 disc DVD
The Best Of Raw 1993-2008 3 disc DVD


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Does anyone else think we should add the Money in the bank ppv to the BIG 4? I mean, its only been around for 2 years now, but it is already bigger then Survivor Series.

For the past 2 years we have seen all 4 money in the bank winners go on to cash in their briefcases and become new World/WWE champions. It basically creates new main eventers and shows us who will be our champion in a little while. Not only that, but last years ppv also had one of the greatest matches of all time.

I would rank them like this.

1. Wrestlemania - Its wrestlemania. Enough said

2. Summerslam - They try making this big every year. Last year had Punk/Cena in a rematch of their classic MITB match. The year before had Nexus/WWE, which was a huge match. The year before had Orton/Cena and Hardy/Punk TLC. The year before had Edge/Taker HIAC. The year before had the returns of HHH and Mysterio. The year before had Orton/Hogan, and before that HBK/Hogan. I think you get the point. 

3. Money in the bank - Basicaly gives us the next world/wwe champions. Every year we get two really fun MITB matches, and a WWE title match, and a world title match. This ppv for the past two years has been full of quality matches and has given us main eventers such as Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, The Miz, Del Rio.

4. Royal Rumble - Used to set up a world title match, or a WWE title match for WRestlemania. Other then that the ppv never has much more to offer, and even the reward for the winer of the Royal Rumble has lost some value since they dont get to main event Wrestlemania anymore.

5. Survivor Series - One of the big 5 only because of its long history. It has lost almost all of its value. The main attractions are the elimination tag matches, and we have not gotten one that actually matters since 2005. Its always a match that is thrown together last minute for the past few years. Sure last year's had Cena/Rock vs Miz/Truth, but other than that, the entire ppv does not have much build up anymore.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

*The Spectacle*, The War, and The Clinic.


*The Spectacle*








*The Undertaker vs. Triple H inside Hell In A Cell for the Streak with Shawn Michaels as Special Guest Referee*
*The Build:*
It has been nearly a year since HHH and Undertaker fought at Wrestlemania and it's a hard match to forget. Why? Because Triple H beat Undertaker's ass bad. Real bad. In fact so bad that even though Taker had emerged the winner, he couldn't stand or show up every since. Now times have certainly changed from that moment. New champions have been crowned, stars have risen as well fallen, and there was a new order of power. Triple H had become that man of power. For a wrestler that motto is "just business", his job had became to preserve the business. Clearing up the wrongs and succeeding with the rights is all Triple H had cared about now. Whether it was taking care of high profile stars or cutting ties with those that were a danger to them, it was all about the game and how to take care of it. This was until Taker had returned from after a near year absence. In a rare moment, Undertaker challenged Triple H instead of the other way around but it only got shot down. Triple H didn't care anymore to compete and felt it wasn't his place to destroy something that was precious to WWE. Undertaker would not have it. Unlike Mania's previous to his encounter with Triple H, Undertaker was slaughtered. He was humbled and beaten nearly to death. Hunter had outed him in every possible way one could imagine. He out striked him, he survived the bomb throwing, and even though Taker had won, Triple H could walk away when the Deadman couldn't even make it to his feet. Mania matches were always competitive for the Phenom but that match had left a mark that would stain his career over the passage of time if he did not remedy the situation.

Undertake threw insult after insult at Triple H and Helmsley's best friend in Shawn Michaels even couldn't believe the Game wouldn't bite the bait. Then when all seemed faint and that the Deadman would never get his chance at redemption, he said the magic words that have forever burned a hole in Triple H's soul. "Shawn Michaels was always better than you". That combination of words turned business into personal for HHH. He has cut ties with friends over the thought of it. In 2002, Triple H attempted to destroy Shawn Michaels and bury his career before it had risen back up just because he THOUGHT it. The war had raged on between the two before Triple had ended it in 2004 in, oddly enough, the Hell In A Cell structure. Triple H had taken the role of a business man because there was nothing else for him to do. He had become one of the few Grandslam champions in the WWE, beaten every big name in the WWE(Including the Undertaker), was "The Man" for many years, and his name was affiliated with World Champion. Maybe it all was because of personal success or maybe because he wanted to prove a point. No one was better than him, no one will ever be better than him, and certainly was not the guy he carried for many years on his back that wasn't nearly as accomplished as him. Even if you had not worked for it, this was the straw that would break the Camel's back.

Triple had accepted but only under his condition, Hell In A Cell. A match that was famed by Shawn Michaels's and Undertaker rivalry. A match that The Undertaker's name would become synonymous.....a match that Triple H's name became feared with. Out of 24 Hell in a cell matches, Triple H had been involved him in eight of them. Out of those eight, Triple H had five single matches. Out of those five single matches, Triple H had only lost one. It was his match. The match where whatever remorse he had was left at the door of the Cell and the match where he had ended wars. While it was known as the Devil's playground, it was Triple H's Game. In a another shocking turn of events, Shawn Michaels was named the guest referee. Shawn Michaels has history with Triple H but he also had tales with The Phenom. Shawn Michaels was always the ultimate little man to Undertaker's big man. HBK had defeated Deadman on several occasions but when it was for everything Taker had worked for, Shawn couldn't obtain that legendary achievement that others before him had failed to do. It will always be remembered as some of Shawn's greatest career matches but also be remembered as the reason Shawn's career ended. To say The Showstopper hadn't forgotten it would be a understatement. 

However, green was not only the DX color but may be what Michael's were to represent if Triple H had accomplished what HBK was unable to do. Would Michaels be fair? Would Triple H strike down the beast? Would Undertaker finally get the victory that should of been his last year?

*The Match*:

What makes this match special is that everything comes off as a big deal. Triple H's entrance all the way to Taker's walk to the ring. What may be a hidden highlight or brushed off by some people is Triple H's reaction when the Undertaker reveals his shaved off head. Undertaker never once shown it previous to this match and acting in kayfabe, it would be quite astonishing to see Undertaker's head absent of hair considering his whole career his hair had been quite punctual. Had HHH's devastation of this man truly eat away at The Undertaker that much? The question was answered not verbally but visually. Both men stare each other down before acknowledging the stage that had help them define their career. The stage where Undertaker presented the Cell as no man's land......and the stage where Triple H had presented the cell as His land. The match starts off very similar to last year. No tie up, no getting inside your opponents head with mind games, or anything all that would crawl around the point. The match was a battle and it was going to start off as a battle. Both guys trading blows but unlike last year, Triple H doesn't get the advantage. 

The Undertaker is a different Undertaker from last year. This Undertaker isn't here to prove it isn't his time yet....he's here to prove that he will always be the dog of this yard. The beginning of this match is mostly Undertaker showing that he can still be dominant and that he can still be the man. How does he prove that? By beating Triple H's ass around the cell for about 5 minutes I believe. Triple H's tries to come back with his knee face crusher but that immediately gets eaten up by The Undertaker and gives him a clothesline for his troubles. Triple H, at this point, hasn't even gotten the chance to dictate his own offense or workout his plans. After tasting the steel steps, Triple H finally gets a chance to catch a breather and think of his next move. Triple H's next move turns out to be Pedigreeing Undertaker onto those steel steps the Deadman had been planning to use. A little extreme but understandable. Unfortunately for Triple H, Taker has still has enough juice to fight off the Pedigree and give a ode to last year by back body dropping him off of something that elevates them both. The Phenom then decides that HHH hasn't had enough of that fist salad and proceeds to continue to punch Triple H until he gets that lovely thing we like to refer in wrestling as being "Busted open the hardway". How does Triple H repay him? By giving the Undertaker a Spinebuster onto the steel steps! 

At this point, that is as good as HHH can get as far as getting his foot back in the door. Taker busts out that desperation move that helped him achieve victory last year in the Hells Gate and he gets it locked in tight on HHH. However, Triple H has the best fucking counter for it(As well as the most ballsy) by powerbombing the fuck out of Undertaker. It gets him a two count but this is when the match gets great. Remember when The Game tried to pedigree The Deadman onto the steel steps and that was AFTER his first real offensive move in the match? You do? Well here is what it preluded to or should I say, what it was suppose to tell you was this: Triple H isn't fucking around. After Triple H's extremely nice way of telling the Undertaker to go fuck himself for using the Hells Gate on him, he goes outside with urgency and grabs two steel chairs. If this was a movie, Undertaker would be Tobi and the scene would be if Tobi thought it was a good idea to start calling himself Kunte Kinte again. If you don't get it, Triple H is about to make Undertaker relieve every moment of that ass whipping he received last year including a few extra new scenes JUST because he(Taker) loved it so much. 


What makes this so great is that this is exactly what Triple H was talking about when he said he knew what he needed to do. Triple H has threw less at Taker and beat him at lesser stages but when he threw it all at him on a bigger stage, he lost. That is what caused him or causing him to realize that he has to bring it at a higher level than he has for anyone else and unfortunately for Taker that level is murderer. The Game smacks him with chairs, slams his head into the steel steps, and goes above the Austin limit of destroying people with chairs by trying to eradicate Undertaker with about 19 or 20 steel chair shots. Even the crowd finds themselves booing this near heelish actions. During this beatdown(If we can call it that. At this point it might as well be attempted murder by the way HHH is trying to turn Taker's spine to jelly.), we see Triple H's use of Shawn Michaels. 


Now during Triple H/Undertaker's build last year, Triple H straight up told HBK that he(Shawn) had gone full bitch and lacked the ability to not care about if his opponent is able to wake up the next day. You see, Shawn is the Yin while Triple H is the brutal Yang. Michaels is a christian who will not do to others what he wouldn't do to himself(Like kill his best friend) and at most, fights in the name of competition. Triple H isn't that. He will do onto others however the hell his feels like and fights to win.......whatever the means. There was a point that a guy he had mentored for 2 years and really created a strong bond with, he nearly got him hit by a car. Why? Only because there had been rumors of the man(His friend) contending for his champiionship. Triple H could give less of a fuck about his adversaries and even his friends have felt that wrath at some point. So Triple H being the Yang to Michaels's Yin nearly played a part in Undertaker's defeat.

See whether or not Shawn Michaels called the fight, Triple H was going to do this to the Undertaker. Due to the circumstances though, Michaels was a asset to Triple H tainting the streak. HBK has had many of injuries in his career and he knows first hand what kind of pain wrestlers go through. So to see what Triple H is doing to Undertaker is something that needs to stop. What HHH knows is that if Shawn does call it, that's a win for him. So while destroying the Undertaker, HHH can manipulate HBK's emotions to give him the victory and that is all achieved by what Triple H does best, put people as potential candidates for the ER. Brilliant and I mean Brilliant storytelling by all three guys. 


So Triple H doesn't get the pin after beating Taker to near death with a chair so he smacks the Deadman(Soon to be literally) in the spine with one more chair shot for good measure before grabbing Mr. Hammer. The same Sledgehammer that didn't get to touch Undertaker's skull last year and became the "what if" scenario. Hunter tells the Sexy Boy one more time he better call the match or we are going to see Taker became a retard in the next couple seconds. Taker of course tells Michael no for the 15th time while sounding about as confident as a Drunk man denying himself the pleasure of fucking Kim Kardishan as she stands naked in front of him. Then WHAM! Triple H hits him with the Sledgehammer as the crowd buy it, the commentators seem to buy it, and as I buy it as well.

1





2





Taker KICKS OUT! Triple H can't believe it and now I'm starting to forget this is Triple H's workover section. Hurst gets pissed and now he is on full murderer stage as a he attempts to Gallagher Undertaker. Luckily for Taker(And all the kids who don't watch Saw movies), HBK grabs that shit out of HHH's hand and throws it out of the ring. Helmsely tells him to end it and at this point, Shawn is in a pickle. He respects the Undertaker and understands his streak means everything to him but his best friend almost committed homicide on live PPV. Checks on Taker once.....twice....three times which is enough for Taker to realize at this point, HBK is a liability and takes him out himself Hell's Gate. Of course Triple H breaks this up in the most brutal way possible(With the Sledgehammer) and moves his friend out of way so he doesn't get any of Taker's guts on that nice referee shirt. To bad for him(Hunter) that this was enough time for The Phenom to realize kicking HHH in the dick wouldn't exactly be looked down upon at this point and proceeds to drive his foot into the King Of King's jewelry. Now he definitely won't be having any boys soon!

Locks HHH in the Hells Gate and doesn't get power bombed this time due to the tactical strike to the nut sack. Game goes to Sledgy to get him out of this predicament and like Last Year, he doesn't have the power to will it into one of Taker's organs. Well this moment would tell you it is a foregone conclusion.....or at least it would be had HBK not been sleeping on the canvas. They of course send the marathon runner, Charles Robinson, to call this match now and I don't know if they did this on purpose or not but Robinson being the replacement for Undertaker's referee's has to more than coincidence. Whatever. Undertaker catches Triple H in the chokeslam and gets a great fucking 2.99999 out of it. You want to know what makes that fall the shit and a totally believable nearfall even though Undertaker's chokeslam hasn't beaten a turd? The whole business beforehand with the Hell's Gate and a near unconscious man being hit with a high impact move as soon as he gets up. See? Putting your shit in the right place can make the crowd go bonkers no matter how legitimate or unlegitimate that move is. Same with that Sledgehammer spot from earlier.

Undertaker decides Robinson sucks as a referee and chokeslams the shit out of him too. This match is getting to awesome now. Tombstone coming! SUPER KICK! PEDIGREE! HOLY SHIT COVER!



1



2



THRE----AGH HAWK FUCKING DAMMIT! What the fuck is going on!? Michaels is in the corner with hands over face can't believing what he just did! What a logical reaction to Taker making him pass out earlier! Now Shawn is regretting it because now he is having a WWJD moment and knows that was wrong! Triple H goes and grabs his Sledgehammer so he can officially end this bitch but Shawn tries to redeem himself by trying to stop it! H ain't having it and tosses his punk ass out of the ring! Triple H turns around and Undertaker sits up! "OH SHIT!" Triple H's reaction is priceless! Undertaker starts doing his regular comeback and the crowd is going apeshit! I LOVE THIS! TOMBSTONE! MICHAELS IN!




ONE




TWO




THNOOOOO! Triple H kicks out and Undertaker has the best facial reaction since his match at Mania 25! Shawn, at this point, is not even sure if he is making the right decisions anymore. Headbutt by Taker at Triple H's eyebrow wound so Triple H responds by jacking his jaw with his fist! Both men are just trading blows! Yays for Taker and Booes for The Game! Taker starts to win but Triple H starts to out strike him! Tombstone attempt! PEDIGREE! 1, 2 AND NO FUCKING THREE! You got to be kidding me! Both guys are out of it. Triple H crawls for his trusty sledgehammer....Taker for the chair. Taker grabs the chair and Triple H gets the sledgehammer but Taker steps on it. Amazing visual with Triple H staring up at Undertaker. End of the chair to the face! Chair shot! Chair shot! Taker is now taking Triple H down a path towards memory lane. Michaels pleads for a pinfall as Taker just tosses the now broken chair into the cell. He only gets two and Michaels and Taker are now giving him a taste of his own medicine with lectures. Triple H crawls towards his feet with Sledgehammer in hand as the other two men watch him painfully do so. Words cannot do justice of how Triple H is just realizing how fucked he truly is. It's like he told all the other survivors to run off as he fends off the zombie horde with a broken arm and three bullets. Taker tells him "Don't do it" as Triple H uses his last amount of power to try to smack him with that Sledgehammer.....maybe fool himself that he has enough to come back. Taker defends and shakes his head at HHH who pushes him to tell him(Taker) how pissed off he is. Triple H looks at both HBK and Taker as they look at him in dismay. HBK knows it is over and Undertaker does but Triple H refuses. He tells Taker to Suck His Dick before he eats a Sledgehammer! Straps off and you can see Michaels looking down in the corner remembering this exact same moment with him in Triple H's shoes. Undertaker looks Triple H in the eyes and gives him the sign of death. I can't illustrate how badass that is. Tombstone and Michaels counts the three.

Post match: Lot of selling going on here as Taker celebrates his victory and gives Michaels a hugs since this will be the last we will see of these two concerning for the foreseeable future and they send off the Attitude Era in the best way possible. They also pick up the corpse formerly known as Triple H and drag he carcass to the back but not before saying one final goodbye to the audience. 

*My thoughts:*
The Match is what I like to call the Spectacle......because that is what it is. Everything is presented as a big deal. From the entrances all the way down to the climax of the match. They literally had the crowd in the palm of their hand and everything is immediately gotten. You get why this is happening and you understanding what is going on. Why this is a big deal and why that is a big deal. It's a tremendous storytelling match and I think it might be one of the last we see like this. They made the Undertaker's sit up make people go bonkers....that's saying allot when you don't need to do a move to get that kinda reaction out of people. Not saying that's a bad thing for other wrestlers as I'll talk about it when I review The War but it's something I feel we might not get enough of. Anyway, tremendous match and my only negative would be the beginning needed a little something to it. Oh and this is a three part series explaining my top matches and how they are completely different but great for whatever the audience.
*****3/4*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> No. Well, he has a couple. I'm sure. I remember one being not bad. Forgot who it was against. Maybe Barry Windham? Honestly in 99.9% of the matches I've seen the guy in, he's fucking sucked . He should just be called Muta cos there ain't nothing great about him.
> 
> Edit: Arn Anderson Vs Great Muta - Power Hour 12/01/1990 . Not Windham, but close enough, another Horsemen .


Thanks for your honesty mate :lol



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Off to watch the first disc of the COTC DVD I picked up today, which means that I have to watch Flair vs Sting again, a match that I remember being very MEH on. Looking forward to a few matches on this, should have one of the first reviews posted Thursday-Fridayish so that makes me very excited.


Do you have to rub it in  God knows when we are getting it over here.



Yeah1993 said:


> I agree with Cal that Mutoh isn't good (never has been, really), but some of his US stuff is worth watching:
> 
> -v Flair (11/18/89)- Shortish fun TV match, and it's Ric Flair in 1989. So yeah.
> -w/Slater v Flair/Sting (Clash VIII)- My favourite Mutoh/Muta match ever. Flair in 1989 again (so yeah), and this is a really, really great tag that's fun as hell. Everyone should watch this.
> ...


Thats great, thanks alot, i did like hos Great American Bash match vs Sting in 89.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> PS: I've been hunting through previous pages to try and find that "Top 100 WCW matches" list that Cal posted quite a while back. Could somebody post it in a spoiler or something? I'd be most interested in reading it again.





Spoiler: WE's Top 100 WCW Matches Ever



#100 Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (144 points)

#99 Ric Flair Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 20/05/1996 (146 points)

#98 Kidman Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Juventud Guerrera - Starrcade 27/12/1998 (148 points)

=#97 Sting Vs Rick Rude - Clash Of The Champions XVII 19/11/1991 (154 points)

=#97 Arn Anderson Vs Shane Douglas - World Championship Wrestling 17/02/1990 (154 points)

=#97 Arn Anderson Vs Ricky Steamboat - Pro 21/03/1992 (154 points)

#94 Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham - Saturday Night 03/10/1992 (155 points)

#93 Arn Anderson Vs Great Muta - Power Hour 12/01/1990 (157 points)

#92 Chris Jeircho Vs Ultimo Dragon - Bash At The Beach 13/07/1997 (158 points, One top 20 vote)

=#91 Nasty Boys Vs Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne - SuperBrawl 20/02/1994 (161 points)

=#91 Midnight Express Vs Original Midnight Express - Starrcade 26/12/1988 (161 points)

#89 Rey Mysterio Vs Super Calo - Fall Brawl 16/06/1996 (169 points, One top 20 vote)

#88 Chris Benoit Vs 2 Cold Scorpio - Superbrawl III 21/02/1993 (173 points)

#87 Bam Bam Bigelow Vs Hak - Spring Stampede 11/04/1999 (186 points, One top 15 vote)

#86 Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996 (192 points)

#85 Brian Pillman Vs Scotty Flamingo - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (195 points)

#84 Lord Steven Regal Vs Fit Finlay - Nitro 29/04/1996 (197 points)

#83 Steve Austin Vs Ricky Steamboat - Bash at the Beach 17/07/1994 (200 points)

#82 Ric Flair Vs Brian Pillman - 17/02/1990 (203 points)

=#81 Wrath & Mortis v Glacier & Ernest Miller - Bash at the Beach 13/07/1997 (206 points)

=#81 Vader Vs Ricky Steamboat - Worldwide 29/05/1993 (206 points)

#79 Rey Mysterio Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - Starrcade 29/12/1996 (210 points)

=#78 Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993 (214, One top 15 vote)

=#78 Chris Benoit Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 04/10/1999 (214 points, One top 15 vote)

#76 Arn Anderson/Ric Flair/Lex Luger/Sting Vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/Sting - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996 (216 points)

#75 Brian Pillman Vs Jushin Liger - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992 (220 points)

#74 Ric Flair & Barry Windham Vs The Midnight Express - Clash of the Champions 07/12/1988 (222 points)

#73 Lex Luger Vs Ricky Steamboat - Great American Bash 23/07/1989 (228 points)

#72 Cactus Jack Vs Paul Orndorff - Superbrawl III 12/02/1993 (232 points)

#71 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of Champions XXVIII 28/08/1994 (236 points, One top 20 vote)

#70 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash Of The Champions XX 02/09/1992 (246 points)

#69 Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 17/09/1995 (247 points, One top 15 vote)

#68 Chris Benoit Vs Diamond Dallas Page - SuperBrawl 22/02/1998 (250 points)

#67 Scott Hall & Kevin Nash Vs Randy Savage/Lex Luger/Sting - Bash At The Beach 07/07/1996 (253 points)

#66 Rick Rude Vs Dustin Rhodes - Worldwide 30/05/1992 (254 points)

#65 Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992 (258 points)

#64 Vader Vs Davey Boy Smith - Slamboree 23/05/1993 (272 points)

#63 Sting Vs Cactus Jack - Power Hour 16/11/1991 (273 points)

#62 Vader Vs The Boss - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (274 points, One top 20 vote)

#61 Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan Vs The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (281 points, One top 10 vote)

#60 Ric Flair Vs Sting - Great American Bash 07/07/1990 (283 points, One top 20 vote)

#59 Dustin Rhodes Vs Vader - Saturday Night 21/11/1992 (284 points)

#58 Ron Simmons Vs Vader - Main Event 02/08/1992 (286 points)

#57 Arn Anderson & Barry Windham Vs Doom - Starrcade 16/12/1990 (288 points)

#56 Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994 (292 points)

#55 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Philadelphia House Show 18/03/1989 (309 points, One top 10 vote)

#54 Lord Steven Regal Vs Sting - Great American Bash 16/06/1996 (318 points, One top 20 vote)

#53 Lord Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko - Saturday Night 28/05/1994 (319 points)

#52 Ric Flair Vs Hulk Hogan - Bash At The Beach 17/07/1994 (324 points, One top 20 vote)

#51 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (337 points, One top 5 vote)

#50 The Steiner Brothers Vs The Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 27/10/1990 (354 points, Two top 15 votes)

#49 Arn Anderson Vs Big Josh - 02/05/1992 (365 points, One top 10 vote)

#48 Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - WrestleWar 25/02/1990 (378 points)

#47 Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/Nasty Boys Vs Bunkhouse Buck/Arn Anderson/Terry Funk/Colonel Parker - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994 (383 votes, One top 15 vote)

#46 Arn Anderson Vs Barry Windham - 06/06/1992 (387 points, One top 10 vote)

#45 Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993 (390 points, One top 5 vote)

#44 Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 16/10/1995 (409 points)

#43 Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Slamboree 17/05/1998 (427 points)

#42 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 14/05/1994 (429 points, One top 5 vote)

#41 Rey Mysterio Vs Psicosis - Bash At The Beach 07/07/1996 (430 points, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#40 Ric Flair & Sting Vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 12/09/1989 (437 points)

#39 Chris Benoit Vs Kevin Sullivan - Great American Bash 16/06/1996 (443 points, Two top 20 votes)

#38 Jake Roberts Vs Dustin Rhodes - 26/09/1992 (445 points, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#37 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Landover House Show - 18/03/1989 (446 points, Two top 5 votes, Two top 15 votes)

#36 Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham Vs Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko - Superbrawl 29/02/1992 (449 points, One top 20 vote)

#35 Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999 (450 points, One top 10 vote)

#34 Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs The Steiners - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992 (466 points, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#33 Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (467 points, One top 15 vote)

#32 Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne Vs The Nasty Boys - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (475 points, One top 15 vote)

#31 Arn Anderson Vs Dustin Rhodes - Satuday Night 04/01/1992 (487 points, One top 20 vote)

#30 Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (501 points, One top 10 vote)

#29 Diamond Dallas Page Vs Randy Savage - Great American Bash 15/06/1997 (546 points, One top 15 vote)

#28 Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 23/05/1992 (551 points, One top 5 vote, One top 10 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#27 Ricky Steamboat Vs Lord Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993 (569 points, One top 5 vote)

#26 Hollywood Blondes Vs Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio - Worldwide 08/05/1993 (571 points, One top 15 vote)

#25 Lord Steven Regal Vs Fit Finlay - Uncensored 24/03/1996 (588 points, One top 5 vote, Two top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#24 Ric Flair Vs Hulk Hogan - Halloween Havoc 24/10/1994 (592 points, One top 5 vote, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#23 Sting Vs Vader - Great American Bash 12/07/1992 (602 points, Three top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#22 Rock n Roll Express Vs Midnight Express - Wrestlewar 25/02/1990 (634 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#21 Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 14/09/1997 (648 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#20 Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Larry Zbyszko/Bobby Eaton Vs Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham - Saturday Night 22/02/1992 (655 points, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes)

#19 Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas Vs Brian Pillman & Steve Austin - Starrcade 28/12/1992 (664 points, Four top 20 votes)

=#18 Sting Vs Vader - Starrcade 28/12/1992 (671 points, One top 10 vote)

=#18 Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes - Clash Of The Champions XXIX 16/11/1994 (671 points, One top 5 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#16 Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - Starrcade 26/12/1988 (677 points, One top 10 vote, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#15 Flair/Windham/Sid Vicious/Zbyszko Vs Sting/Pillman/The Steiners - Wrestlewar 24/02/1991 (691 points, Three top 10 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#14 Goldberg Vs Diamond Dallas Page - Halloween Havoc 24/10/1998 (725 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#13 Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes Vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko - Clash Of The Champions XVII 19/11/1991 (761 points, Two top 5 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#12 Sting Vs Vader - Superbrawl III 21/02/1993 (781 points, One top 5 vote, Three top 10 votes, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#11 Sting Vs Cactus Jack - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (782 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 15 vote)

#10 Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990 (793 points, Three top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#9 Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Clash Of The Champions IX 15/11/1989 (801 points, One #1 vote, Two top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#8 Ric Flair Vs Vader - Starrcade 27/12/1993 (817 points, One top 5 vote, Three top 10 votes, One top 15 votes, Three top 20 votes)

#7 Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 23/07/1989 (869 votes, Two top 5 votes, Two top 10 votes, Two top 15 votes, Two top 20 votes)

#6 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlewar 07/05/1989 (889 votes, One #1 vote, Three top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, One top 15 vote, One top 10 vote)

#5 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 20/02/1989 (940 points, One #1 vote, Four top 5 votes, Two top 10 vote, Two top 15 vote, One top 20 vote)

#4 Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham Vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko/Austin/Rude - Wrestlewar 17/05/1992 (946 points, Four top 5 votes, Six top 10 votes)

#3 Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (949 points, Two #1 votes, Four top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, Three top 15 votes)

#2 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash Of The Champions VI 02/04/1989 (951 points, Four #1 votes, Two top 5 votes, Three top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#1 Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997 (965 points, One #1 vote, Five top 5 votes, Four top 10 votes)


----------



## EdgeHeadBellaFan (Jul 3, 2011)

What are your thoughts on WWE Global Warning Tour: Melbourne?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloaded Over The Limit again, this time in HD, and I just watched Punk/Bryan on the big tv downstairs. Loved it even more on this watch. Putting it ahead of Punk/Jericho from WM, and upping my rating to ****3/4. Magnificent match. Actually really loved the finish this time around too. Guess I was paying more attention to it and could really appreciate how good it was . God, please give these 2 an Iron Man match. Would be beautiful. Especially if they keep up the rib and knee work/injuries for it. Would be like, an even better version of Rude/Steamboat if given the chance. :mark:

If it wasn't for the fact I'm practically in love with The Undertaker (no **** :side: ) I'd probably have this as the MOTY .



EdgeHeadBellaFan said:


> What are your thoughts on WWE Global Warning Tour: Melbourne?


Nothing special really. Main event is fun and a one off match that is probably at least worth a watch just to say you've seen Lesnar Vs HHH Vs Rock in a triple thread.

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Wild-Wednesday/page1.html UK peoples, don't forget about Wild Wednesday today . Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century Bluray for £7.99. Ordered my copy this morning .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Good to see the SilverVision sale is still on, these DVD's came for me today:

Jugdment Day 2000 & Fully Loaded 2000
The Ladder Match DVD
Vengeance 2003

RE: WCW DVD's - Real shame there's none available, apart from the sets recently released
like Nitro etc, 'tis difficult to get matches you want apart from resorting to YouTube,

Was having a quick look through my WWF VHS's that i still have (all from the late 80's through to
about 98) - some original, some taped from Sky lol, still gotta replace them with
DVD's one day!!, noticed i do have these WCW VHS's:

WCW Great American Bash 1991, 1992
WCW SuperBraw II, III
WCW Wrestle War 1992
WCW Capital Combat 1990

Wish i collected more back in the day now


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Spoiler: WE's Top 100 WCW Matches Ever
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Amazing how Steamboat dominates the top 15 of that list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YouThinkUKnowMe said:


> Amazing how Steamboat dominates the top 15 of that list.


Well he is one of the greatest of all time .

Worked out some stats with the overall list (not just top 100, but from every match that got a vote):

Years

2001 - 3 Matches - MVP of the Year - Rey Mysterio - 2 Matches
1988 - 4 Matches - MVP of the Year - Ric Flair & Midnight Express - 2 Matches
2000 - 7 Matches - MVP of the Year - Terry Funk - 3 Matches
1995 - 14 Matches - MVP of the Year - Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - 4 Matches
1990 - 14 Matches - MVP of the Year - Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - 5 Matches
1991 - 16 Matches - MVP of the Year - Bobby Eaton - 4 Matches
1989 - 20 Matches - MVP of the Year - Ric Flair - 10 Matches
1999 - 20 Matches - MVP of the Year - Chris Benoit - 9 Matches
1998 - 24 Matches - MVP of the Year - Chris Benoit - 5 Matches
1997 - 24 Matches - MVP of the Year - Eddie Guerrero - 10 Matches
1996 - 28 Matches - MVP of the Year - Steven Regal, Ric Flair, Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Hulk Hogan - 5 Matches
1993 - 30 matches - MVP of the Year - Vader - 12 Matches
1994 - 32 Matches - MVP of the Year - Ric Flair - 11 Matches
1992 - 49 Matches - MVP of the Year - Ricky Steamboat - 18 Matches

--------------------------------

Wrestlers

Finlay - 4 Matches
Randy Savage - 6 Matches
Goldberg - 7 Matches
Tery Funk - 8 Matches
Chris Jericho - 8 Matches
DDP - 9 Matches
Jushin Luger - 10 Matches
Bobby Eaton - 10 Matches
Hulk Hogan - 11 Matches
Pillman - 12 Matches
Larry Zbyszko - 12 Matches
Cactus Jack - 13 Matches
Dean Malenko - 16 Matches
Rick Rude - 16 Matches
Steven Regal - 20 Matches
Barry Windham - 22 Matches
Eddie Guerrero - 22 Matches
Steve Austin - 22 Matches
Rey Mysterio - 23 Matches
Dustin Rhodes - 24 Matches
Vader - 27 Matches
Chris Benoit - 29 Matches
Arn Anderson - 31 Matches
Sting - 36 Matches
Ricky Steamboat - 45 Matches
Ric Flair - 50 Matches


----------



## djmathers1207 (Sep 9, 2011)

*WWE's best match so far*

Taker/HHH III for sure


----------



## -Extra- (Apr 5, 2010)

*Re: WWE's best match so far*

Punk v Jericho from ER


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

*Re: WWE's best match so far*

you mean ever?

if so i think Hart/HBK wrestlemania 12, Trips vs HBK vs Benoit WM 20, Taker vs Mandkind Hell in a cell, Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle Iron Man is better


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Probably means this year,

Still Taker-HHH for me, although for entertainment Lesner-Cena and Punk-Jericho (WM) are tops too!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Noticed this whislt searching on the DVD UK situation: (Posted 17th May)

" The HMV/Fopp Records employee in the UK who informed us the WrestleMania 28 was changed to “discontinued” on their system recently, has today noticed it has been reverted back to normal. The same release date of July 9th is referenced. This is not a definite answer that the unknown Silver Vision/WWE situation has now been resolved but might perhaps be a positive sign. Further updates are expected soon. "

Certainly hope the WCW set is also under consideration too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Noticed this whislt searching on the DVD UK situation: (Posted 17th May)
> 
> " The HMV/Fopp Records employee in the UK who informed us the WrestleMania 28 was changed to “discontinued” on their system recently, has today noticed it has been reverted back to normal. The same release date of July 9th is referenced. This is not a definite answer that the unknown Silver Vision/WWE situation has now been resolved but might perhaps be a positive sign. Further updates are expected soon. "
> 
> Certainly hope the WCW set is also under consideration too.


Amazon have WM 28 back up for pre-order with a release date too. Looks good. If SV and WWE have solved whatever problem they were having, then all other releases should end up going back to normal.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I sure hope things get back to normal. I want the WCW Clash set & Extreme Rules Blu-Rays.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Is it safe to say that Punk is the best worker so far this year?


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

-Mystery- said:


> Is it safe to say that Punk is the best worker so far this year?


It is indeed safe to say that. By a long way as well for the E imo.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

No it's Finlay!















Yeah, it's safe to say. Guy is motivated and it is really showing.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Is it safe to say that Punk is the best worker so far this year?


Good to very good TV matches with Mark Henry & Daniel Bryan.

RR 12 vs Ziggler - Not seen but heard it was about ***-****.

Raw EC 2012 - Decent match, as all Chamber matches are, but it definitely was not the best match in the world, ***1/4.

WM 28 vs Jericho - Awesome technical contest between the two with strong storytelling, ****1/4.

Extreme Rules vs Jericho - Great street fight, ****1/4

OTL vs Bryan - Fantastic wrestling match, ****3/4.

So yeah, PPV wise he started good and is only getting better, cant wait for the probable NWO match with Bryan.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Downloaded Over The Limit again, this time in HD, and I just watched Punk/Bryan on the big tv downstairs. Loved it even more on this watch. Putting it ahead of Punk/Jericho from WM, and upping my rating to ****3/4. Magnificent match. Actually really loved the finish this time around too. Guess I was paying more attention to it and could really appreciate how good it was . God, please give these 2 an Iron Man match. Would be beautiful. Especially if they keep up the rib and knee work/injuries for it. Would be like, an even better version of Rude/Steamboat if given the chance. :mark:
> 
> If it wasn't for the fact I'm practically in love with The Undertaker (no **** :side: ) I'd probably have this as the MOTY .


Can't wait to watch it. Thoughts on the rest of the show?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

-Mystery- said:


> Is it safe to say that Punk is the best worker so far this year?


From Capital Punishment '11 to today, I would say it is quite safe to say.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Punk truly is the best in the world.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Yeah, definitely safe to say Punk is WotY so far. 

I decided to re-watch the Cena/Punk series from last Summer for the first time in a while. 

Money in the Bank 2011 - *****
Summerslam 2011 - ****1/2
WWE RAW 8/22/11 - ****

These two together are fucking gold, enough said. I can't wait until they start another program together, it's really only a matter of time.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

RevolverSnake said:


> Punk truly is the best in the world.


I would have him ranked up there, in my top 5 definitely. That's in the world though, in the US he would be in my top 2. Bryan is the best wrestler in the world though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Trying to work on a list of my top 100 favorite matches of all time. Not really an official list or anything because I'm not looking for the best 100 of all time but the ones I enjoy. But I'm having tons of fun with it.

About to pop in Fatal Four Way '10 as well. I remember it being a solid show.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Nice to see Punk is appreciated in this thread, the RAW section despise him.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> Trying to work on a list of my top 100 favorite matches of all time. Not really an official list or anything because I'm not looking for the best 100 of all time but the ones I enjoy. But I'm having tons of fun with it.
> 
> About to pop in Fatal Four Way '10 as well. I remember it being a solid show.


Never even thought to list my favourite matches of all time, I should do that.

No order of course, except where I'd put an order because some of them are really important to me. But most of them I just can't decide on, and probably won't ever.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

Bought the Bret Hart vs HBK rivalries blu ray and The Best of Nitro set of Silvervision the other day. Nearly finished disc 2 of the Nitro set and i'm enjoying it so far, just watched the part were Goldberg defeats Hogan for the title, crowd goes apeshit.

Is the Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century blu-ray worth getting at £7.99? Tempted to get the Shawn Michaels From the Vault dvd as well.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Word said:


> Nice to see Punk is appreciated in this thread, the RAW section despise him.


Everyone who posts in this thread knows their shit it seems, wish I'd have started posting in here sooner. It's one thing to dislike Punk, but to be saying he's devaluing the belt and the company is completely blind, and to say he's a bad wrestler like a lot of people in that section is just stupidity.

I wonder how this thread has managed to only attract good posters.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Could anyone recommend any 98/99 WWF PPV's?

Memory has gone a blank from those years!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ownage™ said:


> Can't wait to watch it. Thoughts on the rest of the show?


4 way, decentish, ***. Johnny/Cena was fun for what it was with a way to predictable finish. Didn't bother with the rest of the show lol.



Lennon_ said:


> Bought the Bret Hart vs HBK rivalries blu ray and The Best of Nitro set of Silvervision the other day. Nearly finished disc 2 of the Nitro set and i'm enjoying it so far, just watched the part were Goldberg defeats Hogan for the title, crowd goes apeshit.
> 
> Is the Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century blu-ray worth getting at £7.99? Tempted to get the Shawn Michaels From the Vault dvd as well.


Don't know if its too late, but yes, get the 21st century bluray.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I thought the tag title match at OTL was decent, but probably not worth going out of your way to see, but I enjoyed it while it was on. Thought the four way turned in to a really fun spot fest.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

I've only seen 3 matches from OTL. The intercontinental championship match, the fatal 4 way and Punk/bryan. I enjoyed all 3 but will need to re-watch them soon especially the latter. 

Back to the Nitro dvd, the crowds back then are amazing. Really loving the nwo angle as well, might invest in a nitro set at some point that cover the early nwo years.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

*WrestleMania XXV*

Money in the Bank Ladder Match - **** 1/2*
25-Diva Battle Royal - ***
Chris Jericho vs. Roddy Piper, Ricky Steamboat, & Jimmy Snuka - *****
Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy - ****
Rey Mysterio vs. JBL - ***
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - ***** 1/2*
John Cena vs. Edge vs. Big Show - ****
Triple H vs. Randy Orton - **** 1/2* (Ending was pretty lackluster.)

Overall: *****


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

I just wanted to ask you guys What matches should i watch between Bret Hart and The Undertaker. Do you think they meshed well together?

I was just watching their One Night Only match on the Bret Hart Dvd
**** very good between two legends and love how the British crowd is split down the middle which gives the match a great atmosphere.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I wouldn't say Punk is the best, because he's not. The correct term would be "the most outstanding" wrestler of the year, because he has the biggest catalogue of great matches. That's the role where Rey Mysterio rocked in WWE for years and years before his injury.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Could anyone recommend any 98/99 WWF PPV's?
> 
> Memory has gone a blank from those years!!


*1998:*
Wrestlemania 14
Unforgiven
Over the Edge
King of the Ring
Summerslam
Survivor Series: Deadly Games

*1999:*
King of the Ring
Fully Loaded
Summerslam
Wrestlemania 15
No Mercy
Royal Rumble


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

Punk has been the WWE MVP so far this year. His PPV streak goes back to like, royal rumble 2011.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> *1998:*
> Wrestlemania 14
> Unforgiven
> Over the Edge
> ...


Thanks mate (Y) Think i remember Summerslam 98 and Fully Loaded 99 being really good IMO.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Thanks mate (Y) Think i remember Summerslam 98 and Fully Loaded 99 being really good IMO.


No problem.

Summerslam 1998 is one of my favourite PPV's of all time. Entertainment from top to bottom, I thought the Dumpster match was great between the New Age Outlaws and Mankind. The Ladder match between Rock/Triple H is still one of my favourite matches of all time and one of the best between the two in their careers. Then of course you got a great main event with Austin and Taker.

Fully Loaded was solid! A great Intercontinental title match opened the show between JJ and Edge and you got a typical Attitude Era hardcore match for the Hardcore title between Al Snow and Bossman, you had that Iron Circle match between the Lethal Weapon and the Worlds most Dangerous man, you had a strap match between Rock and HHH and you also had a great first blood match between Austin and Taker main eventing.

Funny how you mention them both and they both include Rock/HHH and Austin/Taker main eventing.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

hardyorton said:


> I just wanted to ask you guys What matches should i watch between Bret Hart and The Undertaker. Do you think they meshed well together?
> 
> I was just watching their One Night Only match on the Bret Hart Dvd
> **** very good between two legends and love how the British crowd is split down the middle which gives the match a great atmosphere.


They had another 3 amazing matches as good as One Night Only match

Bret vs Taker Summer Slam 97
Bret vs Taker vs Austin vs Vader Final Four PPV
Bret vs Taker MSG 1992


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

BUBZ said:


> I would have him ranked up there, in my top 5 definitely. That's in the world though, in the US he would be in my top 2. Bryan is the best wrestler in the world though.


:lmao what? 

He's the best in the world but not in the US? Since when was the US bigger than the world?

Punk isn't even in the top 30 for best wrestlers in the world. Sorry. The guy can work a damn good match, but when you're paired with guys like Bryan, Jericho, Cena, who can't? Punk is sloppy. And lately, the only time he's really impressed me was in the D Bryan encounter.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

What are peoples thoughts on the rise and fall of wcw dvd? Tempted to buy it off ebay if i can get it for around £10.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Documentary is alright, JCP gets quite a lot of coverage, would have been better if the likes of Eric Bischoff and heck, even Ted Turner gave their thoughts but sadly they didn't. It's nothing compared to the Rise & Fall of ECW set so wouldn't get your hopes up too much for the doc. Worth it alone for Flair/Steamboat from Chi-Town Rumble, though.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

The Streak said:


> Punk has been the WWE MVP so far this year. His PPV streak goes back to like, royal rumble 2011.


I'd start it from Survivor Series and throw a couple of TV matches in there too. 

I think Meltzer OTL ratings are out today, be interesting to see his views.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

WahhWahh said:


> :lmao what?
> 
> He's the best in the world but not in the US? Since when was the US bigger than the world?
> 
> Punk isn't even in the top 30 for best wrestlers in the world. Sorry. The guy can work a damn good match, but when you're paired with guys like Bryan, Jericho, Cena, who can't? Punk is sloppy. And lately, the only time he's really impressed me was in the D Bryan encounter.


The irony here is that you're laughing at him and yet you blatantly haven't understood what he was saying. For instance to him, Punk could be number 5 in the world but number 2 in the U.S. It's really not that hard to grasp what he's saying.

As for Punk being the best, an argument could be made that he's been the best in the E as far back as Money in the Bank. He's consistently had good/great/fantastic matches.

EDIT - You could possibly go back even further.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Big sale on WWE SHOP today only. Clash DVD is only $10 and there's tons of stuff 50% off and more.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

Really looking forward to the ecw blu ray, hopefully the situation with silvervision is resolved soon.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

*Money in the bank 2011*

*1. Smackdown money in the bank ladder match*
Awesome match. I think this is better then the RAW MITB that happened later in the ppv. Some great spots in this one, and a great ending as well. I love it that Daniel Bryan won. I remember thinking that he would be the first one to lose the MITB cash in. The Sheamus/Cara powerbomb through the ladder was a sick spot. Other great spots are everyone diving over the top rope, chokeslam on a ladder, and a 450 splash of a ladder that is set up in the corner turnbuckle.
*match rating: ***3/4*

*2. Mark Henry vs Big Show*
Not a bad match, but nothing compared to their matches later in the year. Its short, and they keep up a fast pace, so nothing to complain about. Henry injures Big Show's leg with a chair after the match and gives us a nice moment.
*match rating: ***

*3. RAW Money in the bank ladder match*
I was not too big of a fan of this one. I felt that it was one of the weaker MITB ladder matches we have had. It's still a very good match. but not as good when you compare it to some other ones. Anyways, Del Rio wins, and the match is very fast paced. Some of the big moments are a huge shooting star press of a big ladder from Even Bourne on the outside. The other spot is when Bourne and Mysterio both do a hurricanrana of the ladder on their opponents. 
*match rating: ***1/4*

*4. Randy Orton vs Christian (World Heavyweight Championship)*
I will be honest with you guys. I have not seen any of the Christian/Orton matches. This was my first, and holy shit it was awesome. Fast paced match with a lot of hard hitting moves. I heard that this was their weakest match yet, so I am amazed at the thought of how amazing their other matches must be then. The match never slows down, and even the DQ ending doesnt hurt it since we got Christian as our new world heavyweight championship.
*match rating: ***1/2*

*5. John Cena vs CM Punk (WWE Championship)*
I loved this match. There are a few noticable botches that kind of bugged me, but the match itself is so awesome, and there is so much emotion with the crowd that you quickly forget about its mistakes. The match is around 35 minutes long, and it never gets boring. The crowd is awesome the entire match. They chant you can't wrestle to Cena, and they go crazy for CM Punk. I mean, holy shit they were loud. The last time a crowd was this loud was during the ECW ONS ppvs, and Wrestlemania 22. The crowd really brings the match up even more.

Other then the crowd, the match is epic. They pull of their usual moves, and add even more moves that I have not seen in the WWE in a long time, like the suplex of the apron on the concrete floor, and the knee drop of the apron on the back of Cena's neck. There are some nice counters, and the use of finishers was spread out nicely. The match really put over CM Punk. He kicked out of two AA's, and got out of two STF holds. Both men played their parts just perfect. They really made 35 minutes go by like it was nothing.
*match rating: ******

Overall, this is one of the best non Wrestlemania ppv's ever, and the wet dream of the IWC. You had amazing matches, Punk as WWE champ, Christian as WHC, and you had Del Rio, and Daniel Bryan win the MITB.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

WahhWahh said:


> :lmao what?
> 
> He's the best in the world but not in the US? Since when was the US bigger than the world?
> 
> Punk isn't even in the top 30 for best wrestlers in the world. Sorry. The guy can work a damn good match, but when you're paired with guys like Bryan, Jericho, Cena, who can't? Punk is sloppy. And lately, the only time he's really impressed me was in the D Bryan encounter.


Maybe try reading my post again. I said Punk would be in my top 5 in the world right now, and top 2 in the US.

Also thanks to A-DoubleBaby! for pointing that out.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Ladder Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels 
WWE No Mercy 2008*

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels is one of the paramount rivalries of this generation. Every time they faced each other we saw something fresh, innovative and the underlining story only got deeper. In this storied feud dating back to 2003 and restarting in 2008, Jericho put Shawn through absolute hell. For example, smashing Shawn's face through a TV screen (nod to Shawn's Barbershop heel turn), viciously beating him to a bloody pulp at The Great American Bash, and punching Shawn's beautiful wife Rebecca in the mouth leaving her with a fat lip.

However, this match is for the World Heavyweight Championship and the title looked like it was hung higher than ever before and the new silver ladders looked taller than they had ever been at the time. The stakes this time were much higher.

At this point Shawn had already got his revenge on Jericho for the eye injuries and punching Rebecca when he thrashed him at Unforgiven. Physically hurting Jericho again is obviously an added motivation for Shawn but he also wants to crush Jericho’s insecure spirit forever. This ladder match IS about showing *no mercy* because HBK not only wants to win the World Title again but prove once and for all that Chris Jericho will never be better than Shawn Michaels. For Shawn who said this blood feud will never truly be over, winning this match would be more redemption for his battered body and torn soul. 

Jericho’s obsession to eclipse Shawn Michaels was out of control. It was deep rooted back in 2003 when he just wanted to be better than Shawn Michaels but Jericho made it so personal by trying to destroy what Shawn loves most, and that is his family and wrestling. At times it seemed like Jericho wanted to BE Shawn Michaels and he took his frustrations out on the world and his idol for not measuring up. That is why Jericho must defeat and devastate Shawn Michaels. 

One of the major criticisms this match received was the chain-wrestling at the beginning. I understand why they chose to chain wrestle at the start of a ladder match because, once again, the core of this rivalry has always been about Jericho trying to prove that he has surpassed Shawn Michaels as a competitor. Michaels being the Show Stopper has always been willing to answer Jericho’s challenge in a wrestling match or in a fight. I do think their actions here are still driven by hatred but like I said before this match isn’t just about physical abuse. It is also about proving once and for all in a match both men have mastered who is the best and who will get the last laugh so to speak.

This match is structured differently from the typical ladder matches that only feature jaw dropping stunts. Don't get me wrong there are some good ones in this match (Lionsault on ladder) but the psychology is more important to the story Michaels and Jericho are telling. They utilize some key callback spots from the start of their feud. 

The evil intentions are so focused that it may be more important than the actual execution (and the execution here is excellent). Shawn attacked Jericho’s knee with the intent to immobilize his ability to climb a ladder. Two things I see happening here - First, when Shawn applied the Figure Four leg lock on Jericho to me it was a nod to Ric Flair who HBK retired earlier that year at WM24. Remember it was Jericho that questioned Shawn’s integrity for ending the career of the man he admired that started the feud. Now isn’t it ironic Jericho wanted to destroy and end the career of the man he once admired? It may be hypocritical. 

Secondly, in a very smart spot after Jericho escaped the Figure Four he kicked a ladder already placed on the bottom rope in the corner into the injured left eye of Shawn. After that he continued to viciously assault the eye in a ladder sandwich with Shawn’s head right in the middle! After that Jericho continued dissecting Michaels with the ladder and kicks & punches to the eye. Another thing I noticed that may or may not have been intentional storytelling was when Jericho struck Shawn in the ribs with a ladder and The King mentioned he may have a cracked rib. I thought about Shawn's legit rib injury at WrestleMania with Flair and how that was a factor in some of the earlier Jericho/Michaels matches.

The physicality is top notch as we saw Jericho get smacked in the jaw with a ladder which broke one of his teeth! The blood just poured out of his mouth! After that we saw how Shawn's rage overtook him when he furiously pounded Jericho’s entire body repeatedly with a ladder. The spot where they both crashed into the announce table off the ladder is an awesome display of how much they will risk to hurt the other man.

One spot I want to talk about that I wished the commentators would have picked up on is when Shawn hit his top rope elbow drop on a ladder instead of Jericho. What I saw is Shawn still suffering from the effects of his damaged eye so he couldn’t see that Jericho placed the ladder in his way. When Michaels attempted Sweet Chin Music, Jericho again struck him in the face with a ladder. I love how Jericho and Shawn keep reverting back to the eye injury. The biggest spot soon followed...










Watching Jericho descend off a 16 foot ladder from the inside of the ring to the floor outside is one of the damndest things I’ve ever seen in a ladder match! That fall was so dangerous from the position Shawn tipped the ladder over mixed with the sheer height he came crashing down. Jericho could have been seriously injured but being the great athlete and professional that he is everything really was alright. He sold it like near death, though. 

The sense of urgency shot way up after that fall. Going into the match anyone could predict HBK wasn’t walking out with the gold but after that fall from Jericho it looked like he could win! If you’ve read my reviews before you know I can get caught up in a match a lot but I was completely immersed in this final stretch! Watching both men trade punches at the top of the ladder right under the World Title gave me the feeling that this battle will indeed be fought to the very end right there. When Jericho's leg got caught in the ladder like it did when he lost at Money in the Bank that year I thought the match was over and Shawn was going to win (live watch) until Lance Cade came out.

I actually liked Cade's interference because it not only helped with the false finish when he stopped Shawn obtaining the redemption he was so close to getting as he touched the belt but it also connects back to another part of the Jericho/Michaels feud which is Michaels' protégés being spiteful towards him. Cade got a kick in the chin for his troubles. In the end Jericho and Shawn gave us a remarkably sensational finish! 










When was the last time you truly felt the World Title meant everything to the men fighting for it? Watching this live on PPV I didn’t know which way the belt was going but they made me believe that anything was possible. It was a tug of war for the ages! Eventually in what I think made the finish brilliant was Shawn inadvertently pulling Jericho towards him which resulted in Jericho head-butting Shawn *IN THE EYE* knocking him off the ladder! It may have been an eye for an eye for Shawn at Unforgiven but so was the case for Jericho here at No Mercy. 











Jericho escaped with the gold by the skin of his broken teeth! 

I am a HUGE fan of ladder matches and I will tell you this match has the best, most dramatic finish I have ever seen in a ladder match. The match as a whole is one of the best ladder matches in history. It’s probably in the top five singles ladder matches ever. Just incredible work right here from two of the best ever in another chapter in one of the best rivalries in WWE history.​


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Loved that match at the time. Think I'll give it a re-watch soon.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Love the Jericho/HBK ladder match and it main evented a wonderful show. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent write-up mate, i recently bought the Ladder Match DVD sets and am certainly looking forward to getting to that match, thanks!!


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Jericho/Michaels was an epic feud altogether only made more special by that incredible ladder match. I just re-watched their Judgment Day contest and was once again blown away. The chemistry between the two, their story telling, it all just comes together for a fantastic show stealer. 
By far the best feud of...maybe ever in terms of complexity and overall mic and ring work.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starting to watch my 2010 Superstars set I bought over again. Completely forgot I owned it but I'm rather excited for this.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Clique, stop being a bastard a throw a star rating at the end of your reviews.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

***** 1/2*


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Think I'm alone on this but I didn't like that match when I first saw it and like it even less on re-watching it *** max from me.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Clique said:


> ***** 1/2*


(Y)

I haven't seen it in yonks, I like how they tried to make the make feel unique especially with the ending as there is only so much you can do with a ladder that hasn't already been done. Certainly enjoyed their feud though, 3 matches wasn't it?

JD - ****
UF - ***3/4 (needs a massive rewatch, could have been more brutal for an 'unsanctioned match')
NM - ****1/4 (again needs a rewatch)

Anyone know Meltzer OTL ratings yet?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Word said:


> (Y)
> 
> I haven't seen it in yonks, I like how they tried to make the make feel unique especially with the ending as there is only so much you can do with a ladder that hasn't already been done. Certainly enjoyed their feud though, 3 matches wasn't it?
> 
> ...


They had a match at the Great American Bash PPV also to start the eye injury angle. Last blade job in WWE too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck I still haven't seen the Unforgiven '08 match since it happened. I own the DVD but I never bother putting it in.

That blade job at The Bash is INSANE.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Fuck, can't remember the Bash match at all. The JD match was awesome though, you could really see the characters (mainly Jericho) change in that match to set up the feud.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

BUBZ said:


> Fuck, can't remember the Bash match at all. The JD match was awesome though, you could really see the characters (mainly Jericho) change in that match to set up the feud.


Agreed on that.

The Bash match was crazy for HBK's blade job and Jericho pretty much worked over his eye. After the next match Jericho came out and announced HBK's career was over.

FUCK that feud was good.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I remember being very tempted to go all ***** for the Jericho/Michaels ladder match. Settled with ****3/4 though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> Think I'm alone on this but I didn't like that match when I first saw it and like it even less on re-watching it *** max from me.


Wouldn't go that low, but I wouldn't go above **** for it, and don't think its their best match from the 08 series (JD is). Not a fan of their other matches that year, and honestly didn't think the feud was that amazing either. Best feud of the year? Yeah, probably, but that's because everything else stunk.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

A great feud, but no one can remember the bloody Bash match. Seeing as people regard Taker/Michaels as one of the best feuds ever and take into account all their matches, would only be fair that we add WM XIX into the feud too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget their Raw match in 03 too. I'd put it above pretty much every other match they had aside from WM XIX and JD 08. MAYBE ladder match too... then again if I were to watch the two today I can probably see myself preferring the Raw match .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Jericho/HBK Ladder Match was entertaining as hell, but I wouldn't give it any high rating, because of one painfully obvious kayfabe breaking moment from the middle of the match (I think it was HBK's Elbow Drop on Jericho covered with ladder, the setup was horrible). But like I said, it was a lot of fun.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Bryan was super duper and a top 3 match this year along with HHH/Taker and Lesnar/Cena in my books. Will to have to re-watch to figure out exactly where it stands but it's at least ****1/4.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Ownage™ said:


> Punk/Bryan was super duper and a top 3 match this year along with HHH/Taker and Lesnar/Cena in my books. Will to have to re-watch to figure out exactly where it stands but it's at least ****1/4.


Most people I've seen (including me) that have re-watched it actually bumped their rating up for it. I first had it at ****1/4, but after I watched it again I put it up to ****1/2. There's quite a bit of stuff I noticed second time around that I didn't the first time. Maybe it was because it's unusual to see a match like that in a WWE ring these days so it was pretty crazy and a lot to take in the first time I watched it. I knew they would have a great match, but I didn't expect the clinic we got from them.


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Bryan blew all my expectations out of the water. I didn't think the WWE would let them run with it as much as they did.

It's probably a good thing their first match was on OTL. If it was at Extreme Rules or a different PPV it wouldn't have been given the time like it was.

****1/2 easily.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched these two events with a couple friends today.

Royal Rumble '06:

CW Open - ***1/4
Mickie/Ashley - *
JBL/Boogeyman - 1/4*
Rumble match - I don't rate these but it's fun as hell and really kept me entertained.
Cena/Edge - **3/4
Henry/Angle - **

The Rumble match and the CW open were really good. Loved the RR itself but the main events were disappointing.

Bragging Rights '09:
Miz/Morrison - ***1/4
Melina/Kim/Kelly vs Beth/Michelle/Natalya - **
Punk/Mysterio/Batista/Taker - ***1/2
Raw vs Smackdown BR Match - ***1/2
Cena/Orton - ***

Seen everything before except Cena/Orton. Most of the finishes in that match irritated me early on but as it went on it started to work better because stuff like going through the light fixture and the DDT to the floor got pinfalls and showed the amount of stamina the match takes out of you. There were some really slow parts in it which is understandable for a match of it's length. Hated the ending too, tapping with just five seconds left was sort of lame. I would've rather seen either an overtime or Cena win with the STF at the minute mark which would've gave Orton :30 to try and get a pinfall. It had it's moments but I'm never going to watch a match of that length again that I didn't really enjoy.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Just watched the 01 Rumble.

Dudleyz/E&C **1/2
Jericho/Benoit ***1/2 (Some great spots in this but I think a lack of selling from Benoit hurt this match for me)
Chyna/Ivory *
HHH/Angle *** 1/2 ( A decent match but more focus was on trish/steph on the outside and the crowd didn't really seem into the match)
Royal Rumble **** ( Solid rumble overall , all though people constantly going under the ropes to the outside hurts the rumble concept imo)

Overall , a decent show worth checking out.

Am I the only one who cringes now when watching Benoit taking a big bump/spot ?, like he takes a chairshot to the head flying through the ropes in the Jericho match.


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

Watching best of Raw 2010:

#1 contenders match - Randy Orton v Edge v Chris Jericho

Best match I've seen on the set so far. Where as Edge and Orton never gelled, the inclusion of Jericho really made this a great tv match, that was PPV worthy.

***3/4


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Just watched the 01 Rumble.
> 
> Dudleyz/E&C **1/2
> Jericho/Benoit ***1/2 (Some great spots in this but I think a lack of selling from Benoit hurt this match for me)
> ...


I cringe whenever I see someone do the flying headbutt.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah I'm seriously surprised they let Bryan use the diving headbutt.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About 80 percent of the COTC DVD reviewed in depth (every match has a full write up) and I only have one thing to say about it... I'm NOT very impressed with the match selection at all, all the classic material can be found on other DVDs (NO VADER VS DUSTIN, BUT WE GET THAT SHITTY KOLOFF VS MORTON CHAIN MATCH?!?!?!).

Should have the review posted in a few hours, but I just had that little bit of frustration off my set. I feel that when you review a DVD, you have to consider what COULD have been on the DVD, and if WWE put their best efforts into creating a great DVD (They didn't in this case).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I thought about getting the COTC DVD on Best Buy since I have a $25 gift card. Was gonna wait for some reviews though so I'm interested in your's.


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm thinking of purchasing some ROH Wrestling DVDs, I'm not a ROH Wrestling fan but, I do want to get into it. So which DVDs from ROH are best to get me started?


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Alex Riley™;11502355 said:


> I'm thinking of purchasing some ROH Wrestling DVDs, I'm not a ROH Wrestling fan but, I do want to get into it. So which DVDs from ROH are best to get me started?


Your best bet is too get either Punk's Summer of Punk or Daniel Bryan's best of DVD set to start you out considering you'll be familiar with their later stuff. Punk's DVD is a free leech torrent over at XWT and I highly recommend it you are a fan of his.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*WWE’s “The 50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History” Box Art Cover *



Spoiler: 50 greatest finishing moves dvd cover


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I also considered the COTC DVD just because I don't remember much from that time. The most appealing matches (Sting vs Flair) & (Sting vs Rude) are on other DVD sets I think. I still may pick it up when I get Extreme Rules 2012 tuesday, but I may wait and get those two with the new ECW set that comes out in June.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

COTC set could have been so much more. Some really fucking awesome matches left off in favour or shitty matches or matches that have already appeared on sets (and some of those are shitty too). But its at least nice to see them releasing more and more WCW sets these days. Now if we could just get that Vader set...


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

50 greatest finishing moves...with a 619 on the cover? :jay


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Quite possibly the worst image for the 619 they could have used too. Looks WAY too obvious that Eddie is waiting for it to hit so he can take the bump . HBK pic looks fucking terrible too.

But none of that means a damn thing to me. I'll wait for the DVD listings to see if it'll be good or not.


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

Picked up Volume 2 of the WrestleMania anthology set. For anyone who's watch WM VI from this set, when it says to flip the disc over to continue, how do you continue it?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching Bret Hart - Mr.Perfect (Summerslam 1991)

Forgot how classic this match is, easily one of my faves, great spots throughout, lots of near falls and just excellent overall.

Gotta love Hennan too:

Hennan - " Perfect Leave the Ref alone "
Monsoon - " Why, a disqualifaction and he keeps the belt "
Heenan - Yeah nail him!! "

Classic!!


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Mr. Perfect vs Bret Hart SummerSlam 91 is possibly the greatest IC championship match ever. Just slightly superior to Savage vs Steamboat from WM 3.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Is there anything worth watching from Survivor Series '08?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Is there anything worth watching from Survivor Series '08?


Maybe the 2 5 on 5 (male) tag matches. Some good talent in them for the most part. Don't remember anything about them though.

"triple threat" sucked since Edge only showed up at the end. Jericho/Cena wasn't very good. Undertaker/Big Show was horrible. Shame since their matches prior to this were fantastic.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Maybe the 2 5 on 5 (male) tag matches. Some good talent in them for the most part. Don't remember anything about them though.
> 
> "triple threat" sucked since Edge only showed up at the end. Jericho/Cena wasn't very good. Undertaker/Big Show was horrible. Shame since their matches prior to this were fantastic.


That's disappointing about Show/Taker because I loved the Cyber Sunday match after a couple watches. And then the NM one is really good too. Casket matches are just generally a bad idea unless you're Randy and Bob Orton.

The Team Orton/Team Batista 5v5 doesn't look too bad but the opener looks kind of questionable. I remember hearing that the Trips/Kozlov match was absolutely dreadful even after Edge entered.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

best ppv's ever? 
/discuss


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RevolverSnake said:


> best ppv's ever?
> /discuss


WM 24
Backlash '07
WM 22
MITB '11
Fully Loaded '00
WM 19
Vengeance '03

Off the top of my head.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

RevolverSnake said:


> best ppv's ever?
> /discuss


Hmmm off the top of my head...
WM 21
WM 23
MITB '11
ECW ONS '06
GAB '07
SummerSlam '02
SummerSlam '04
Backlash '07

I'm not much on B-PPVs but I loved NOC '11 as well.


----------



## Firallon (Feb 25, 2012)

RevolverSnake said:


> best ppv's ever?
> /discuss


Hard to say, but I'll list a few (in no order)

Money in the Bank 2011
Wrestlemania X-Seven
WWF Invasion (Maybe not great, but it has a big nostalgic factor for me)
ECW One Night Stand 2006


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion: Review & Recommend Wrestlers/Matches/Shows*

Finish was indeed controversial and maybe not exactly what the two companies needed at the time. I understand they wanted to protect both men with the finish and maybe even stir up talk draw attention to AWA/WCCW but it didn't work. Idk, it seems like SuperClash III was both promotions last shot at being a legit staple in the industry and they more or less failed. Don't get me wrong, the match up to the finish is really good and a better finish could have put the match over-the-top further imo.






James Curran said:


> - At King of the ring 1998 one of the greatest matches ever in 1998 occured between Undertaker and Mankind. There were great moves in the match such as Foley flying of the top of the cage and him falling through the ring. Mankind kept getting up and it was a real good match.



*The Undertaker vs. Mankind*
*WWF King of the Ring (June 28, 1998)*











According to Mick Foley in his book _Have A Nice Day_, it was Terry Funk's idea for them to start the match on top of the Cell.

This Hell in a Cell match is one of the most talked about matches ever and one of the most extreme encounters not only in WWE history but in all of wrestling. Much respect to The Undertaker performing with a broken foot and to Mick Foley for putting his life on the line just for sake of entertainment. There are several unforgettable moments that must be noted: 










First, I knew something bad was going to happen when the match started at the top of the cell and their weight caved into the structure. The first time Mankind was thrown off the cell through the announcers' table to the concrete floor everyone sold the moment like death. 

“He killed him!!!” JR screamed frantically. “As God as my witness he has been broken in half!!!” It is still surreal watching Mankind's body being flung in the air and crashing down to the floor.










Second, after that initial death-defying bump, Mankind went back to the top of the cell and continued to brawl with the Undertaker with a steel chair. This was completely insane and raised the intensity to another level in this match.

The Chokeslam through the top of the cell into the ring is said by Foley in his book to be even a more brutal fall than the first bump - nobody should be put through so much punishment for entertainment purposes. Foley got his damn teeth knocked out by the steel chair he was holding that landed on his face! Seeing Terry Funk get Chokeslammed out of his shoes brought some humor to this bloodletting yet also fit right into the chaos much like Foley's bloody mouth smile. 

Finally, when they decided to continue the match Undertaker donned a "crimson mask" and took some stair and chair shots so the match isn't a complete massacre of Mankind. They kept the audience in suspense as to who would to the final hardcore spot on the thumbtacks which I thought made for a fitting finale to the brutality that ensued. 

It is about more than just the falls Foley took. It is about the sacrifice, the passion, and the will to entertain by any means necessary. Not too many sane people would push their body to such extremes. Undertaker had a broken foot but went out there and performed. Mick Foley left the match with a concussion, dislocated jaw, dislocated shoulder, bruised kidney, and teeth knocked out. 

The carnage is almost unbelievable to image it is so violent. You have to respect these men for what they put their bodies through in this match and Mick Foley literally put everything on the line. This will forever live in infamy.​


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Fuck you all. Summerslam 2011 doesn't have a single bad match but it never gets mentioned. Seriously, not one single match in the card sucks and two stellar main events. I recommend you all watch it again because it is better to check yourself then wreck yourselves.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Best of the Clash of the Champions 3 Disc DVD*


_Disc 1_


_COTC 1: Ric Flair vs Sting
_
This is a very hard match to grade. On the first watch, the match wasn't that fantastic to me. I 
thought the selling wasn't particularly great and I thought the match dragged and failed in comparison to many 45-60 minute Flair classics. On a second watch I realize that this is half true, as this match is GREAT, but not the all-time classic it sometimes gets the credit for. This match is more of an excitement based broadway, as opposed to the Flair vs Steamboat/Windham/ANYBODY mat 
wrestling/psychology based matches. This is a very entertaining match to watch, as Sting was red hot at this point and garnering HUGE reactions from the crowd, while Flair is a master of working a crowd. 

There wasn't too many dull moments that I could recall from this match at all, and as a matter of fact there were many exciting moments (Sting breaking the figure four, outside brawling, last two minutes of nearfalls, etc) that took place in this match. The problem that I do have with this match, however rests with a few key flaws. The most obvious one is shoddy psychology. Late 80s Flair matches were full of picking a body part, sticking with it, and letting the match flow smoothly. In this match, both Flair and Sting differentiate what body part they're working on quite frequently, whether it be back,legs, etc. For such a long match it is CRUCIAL to have consistent psychology, otherwise you get stuck in Michaels-Hart WM XII limbo. Another flaw is Sting's selling. Flair sells awesome in this match (like always) and makes Sting look like a million bucks, but after all the work Flair has been doing on Stings back/legs, Sting dosen't seem too hesitant 
to sell. This is a VERY minor flaw in this match, however because that's the way this match was 
supposed to go, Sting was supposed to look like a million dollars out there, and it shows.

I look at this match in the same regard I look at a HHH-Michaels from Armageddon 02 (which I think I'm the only person in the universe who really loves that match). It's so damn entertaining for a long match, but all the elements of a long match that is supposed to make it great are absent. Fantastic match between these two, and on a rewatch I'm willing to say that It's pure entertainment. Borderline four stars, Flair carries this entire match (as usual for the greatest of all time).

**** 3/4*

_COTC 1: Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger & Barry Windham_

If you ever want to see a textbook example on how to have a classic in under 10 minutes, this is it. All four guys are on their absolute A games here, and all four do a tremendous job in different ways. The crowd is white hot for this one, and right from the get go we get some really hard hitting slams and impact moves from both the faces, which sends the crowd into a frenzy. The pacing to this match is insanely fast, but the match is still chaulked full of psychology (It's Tully and Arn, what do you expect?) with the Horsemen working on Lugers leg early and Lex actually displaying some great selling. Barry is fast and delivers some great moves, and is part of a few very excellent exchanges.(On a side note, damn I love Arn's spinebuster)

The story that these four are trying to convey is quite simple; Arn and Tully are both cheating pricks who aren't as strong or fast as Lex and Barry, but this time Lex and Barry are just too much for them. This story is carried out tremendously through the selling of both Arn and Tully, as both men make the faces look EXCELLENT here. The intensity levels are also off the chart, as Tully's face when he believes he has the match won near the end is fucking AWESOME. Short match, so not alot to say here but that everything clicked, the story and pace were both amazing, the moves were awesome, and the crowd was insane. One of the best under 10 minute long matches that I have ever seen in my entire life. Typical Horsemen greatness.

***** 1/4*

_COTC II: Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Sting & Dusty Rhodes_

This match was a nice clash of styles, because on one side of the ring we have two technicians with 
excellent mat skills, and on the other side we have Sting who is the most athletic in the industry at this point, and we have one of the greatest entertainers that wrestling has ever seen in Dusty Rhodes. This match has a very good pace that carries it, as when the faces are on offense the pace is fast, but when the technicians are on offense the pace becomes more methodical, I always liked that. Sting's athleticism gets shown in this match, as well as Dusty's entertaining abilities, as Dusty dosen't really do all that much (Punches, elbows, a figure four) but the crowd goes absolutely ballistic for him.

The horsemen, however are absolutely fantastic in this one. Not being in the ring with the two best 
workers in the business, they sell for the faces and make them look tremendous. There is one thing 
about this match that really turns me the wrong way, and that's Sting's selling. He gets DDT'd by Arn on the concrete (I remember when Jake Roberts did it to Steamboat and knocked him out cold), and Sting manages to kick out after a ONE COUNT..Are you kidding me ? Anyways, flaws aside, this is a good match that is reminiscent of the WM XX handicap tag match (except much better), great entertainment mixed in with some good workers, makes for a great watch.

**** 1/4*


_COTC III: Russian Chain Match: Ivan Koloff vs Ricky Morton_

Okay first of all, why the hell was this match on the BEST OF THE CLASH OF CHAMPIONS. Is this a great match ? no. Is this an earth shattering, significant moment ? no. But anyways, this match just simple isn't that great. It's essentially just a messy brawl that gets really boring really fast. It's sloppy as hell, lacks drama and psychology, and has a very slow pace. However, I will say a few good things about this match. First of all, the chain shots are absolutely vicious and makes the match worth seeing for that fact alone. Secondly, Koloff takes two very good bumps from the top rope that had the fans going insane. The brutality and main spots of this match keep it from being a fail and actually make it quite watchable, but the bad spots are REALLY bad. Kind of like an old school ECW trainwreck. WHY WAS THIS ON THE DVD ?!?!?!

**3/4*

_COTC IX: I Quit Match: Ric Flair vs Terry Funk_

If Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat was an indication of what wrestling as an art form is supposed to be, than Ric Flair vs Terry Funk is an example of what wrestling violence is all about. Flair shows his versatility in this brutal match, that honestly reminds me of an older version of the WM XXVIII end of an era match between The Undertaker and Triple H. Not that the matches have anything in common, but what makes both matches so great are the SUPERB storytelling and intense violence. The story here is simple: Funk is insane, and broke Flair's neck, now Flair needs to do what seems impossible; make Terry Funk say I quit.

For 1989 standards, and even by today's standards, this match is stiff and brutal. The psychology 
complies with the storytelling PERFECTLY, as Funk beats down on Flairs neck and sets up for a 
piledriver, but before he pulls the trigger he asks Flair does he want to quit. The way Funk says 
"Remember your neck Ric ? You don't want me to hurt your neck again do you?" is storytelling and drama so compelling, but it's actually congruent with the storyline. What can I say about some of the spots in this match ? A piledriver on the floor, steel barricade shots, and one of the most brutal suplexes to the outside that I've ever seen puts the icing on the cake for this match. 

For a long time in this match we believe that Funk might actually win this, because lets be honest; Did anyone visualize Funk actually saying I quit ? Funk takes some absolute brutal bumps in this match while protecting Flair very well, an all around fantastic job. Flair uses some leg work and after trying for a long time, actually manages to hook the figure four to make Funk quit. Better storytelling and drama than the Steamboat series, and incredibly violent, if the build was a little better it would get the full five stars from me, but nonetheless, this is probably my favorite Ric Flair match. Fantastic. 

***** 3/4*

_COTC X: Cactus Jack Manson vs Mil Mascaras
_
I knew about this match coming into this DVD from reading Foley's first book, in which he claims that Mascaras has a huge ego and refused to sell for him in this match. I see the point that he is trying to make, as there are time where Mascaras dosen't even flinch after a punch to the face. This is really just a showcase for the man of a thousand masks, probably put on the DVD to show the fans a glimpse of the 2012 hall of famer. Mascaras does not disappoint, as we see him break out quite a few moves such as a texas cloverleaf and even a liontamer! Foley makes Mascaras look like a mid 80s Hulk Hogan here, as he barely gets in any offense, but still manages to get the crowd to hate his guts (it was clear that this kid had something). Foley steals the show with an absolutely SICK fall to the floor on his head that makes Cornette scream "CACTUS JACK IS DEAD". I mean, that was one of the sickest bumps I've ever seen. Worth watching for the bump, as well as Mascaras showing off his many holds and skills. A nice little five minute match that probably shouldn't be on the DVD, but DAMN that bump was nasty.

*** 1/4*

_COTC XI: Rock & Roll Express vs Midnight Express
_
Out of all the matches between these two teams, I haven't seen this one, therefore I was very excited to learn that it was going to be on this DVD. Fast paced matchup as usual here, these two teams are going at it like crazy here with holds and strikes. Fast pace aside, this match simply dosen't have the structure of it's predecessors, which took the excitement of all the moves these two were performing at a fast pace, structured it into a match and added psychology. This match is very exciting with alot of flashy moves, but the selling is suspect and as the match winds down, the pace dosen't stay consistent with the story these two are trying to tell.

That being said, this match has some absolutely killer near falls, and a few good tag team manuvers, especially out of the Midnight Express. Couple the great near falls with a hot crowd and a good workrate, and you have a match that's destined to be good. Plus, IT'S THE ROCK AND ROLL EXPRESS vs THE MIDNIGHT EXPRESS, how could it possible be a bad match? Not much to say about it besides some decent stuff here, not bad, not great, forgettable really. I absolutely hate the ending however, and I don't see why this match belongs on the DVD. 

*** 3/4*

_Disc 2_

_COTC XII: Ric Flair vs Lex Luger_

I'm not (and I never was) a fan of Lex, except when he was locking up with the Nature Boy, so when I saw this match on the set, I got hyped. The match tells a pretty good story; Lex is much, much stronger than Flair, so Flair must pull out every trick in the book if he wants to beat Luger. What sets this apart from many other Flair matches is Ric's intensity throughout the bout. In other matches, Ric gives laid back WOOOO's and sometimes tells the crowd to shutup. However, when the match begins and Lex uses his strength advantage to overpower Flair, Ric goes insane with cheating manuevers such as eye pokes, throwing Luger into the steel railing, stomping the limbs, etc. It isn't a normal physical dissection from Flair though, it is done with so much intensity, and Flair shows us this intensity in his facial expressions and body language. Luger does a pretty good job of selling all the cheap moves that Flair is executing on him, and deserves credit (although is it REALLY that hard to work a good match with the Flair of that era?).

The crowd is great for this one, popping for Lex everytime he gets a high impact move to counter one of Flair's attempts to mat wrestle. After a while, Flair basically says "Fuck it" and decides to cheat for the rest of the match. I absolutely adore how Flair changes up his strategy to fit his opponent in the ring. We get the normal Flair spots (Flair flop, failed top rope attempt X2) that make these matches so great, but we also get some screwy interference that causes the match to end a little before I wanted to. Great, fantastic match here that Ric carried (surprise), that had a bad ending. It's still Ric Flair NEAR his prime though.

**** 3/4*


_COTC XV: The Fabulous Freebirds & Badstreet vs The Young Pistols & Z-Man_

This was one of those up-tempo matches that are designed to get to crowd going at the beginning of a show (this match was the opener). It featured a young, highly athletic team against a team of veterans featuring Badstreet. Although this match wasn't very long at all, I was feeling it while it lasted. It reminded me of a poor man's version of the Summerslam 2011 opener, an impact/fast match that gets the adrenaline flowing through the audiences veins. Lots of high risk moves here (for 1991 WCW anyways) and plenty bumps. The freebirds were quite excellent at working a crowd as well, I was into this match and I wish it would have been about 5-10 minutes longer. The ending sequence (though highly illegal), was very cool looking. Not much to say here besides short and sweet.

*** 3/4*

_COTC XVI: 15 Man Battle Royal_

I'm a fan of battle royals and I always have been. I mean, getting 10,15,20ish wrestlers in a ring and seeing who is the last man in the ring is a fantastic concept, and I don't believe that many great Battle Royals get their due amongst reviewers. However, If I could call this Battle Royal in particular ANYTHING, it would be slightly below average. There isn't really anything interesting happening for the first few minutes, no eliminations, just random punching and kicking while the big guys (One man gang, El Gigante, PN News) dominate the smaller guys. Then after a while we start getting an influx of eliminations all at once. There is quite a bunch of talent in this battle royal (Young Pistols, Steve Austin, Z Man, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes, Bobby Eaton), but in this match they are overshadowed by the bigger, less talented workers.

It kind of makes me mad to see performers such as Eaton/Windham/Rhodes do a really good job of selling for the bigger wrestlers here, (the bumps that these men take are really impressive) only to be pushed to the wayside to make way for the less talented performers. Oh well, for what it's worth, this Battle Royal had it's fun moments from the aforementioned workers, but it dosen't have a whole bunch of structure to it and I don't really see why it's on the DVD. Decent stuff though.

*** 1/4*

_COTC XVII: Rick Rude vs Sting_

This match was extremely short at about five minutes (what is up with all of these matches being either severely long or severely short?), but for a five minute match, it's as good as you're gonna get. Sting comes into this one with a really bad knee (arriving for his match just in time via ambulance by the way), and when Rude comes out to confront Sting, ends up taking a slam from Sting on the entrance way (a VERY sick looking bump, kudos to Rude for that one). The fans go absolutely insane for Sting dominating Rude early, but once Rude gets the knee it is only a matter of time before he begins dissecting his way to a victory. 

This match is essentially a short brawl with loads of psychology (Sting's selling of the knee injury is some of the best I've ever seen from him) and Rude being the arrogant prick who dissects a man who is clearly not 100 percent tells the perfect story. This was a very short match that was story driven, but it was awesome and full of intensity, therefore there is no possible way I can give this less than 3 stars, even though of it's extreme shortness. If this match had have gone another 5 minutes, this was easy 4 star territory for me...It was THAT good.

**** 1/2*

_COTC XXIII: The Hollywood Blondes vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson 2/3 Falls_

So here we have two of the probably top 5-10 workers of all time (Flair and Austin), one of the 
greatest in-ring psychogists of all time, and a worker who was in one of the greatest primes of all 
time (Pillman in the early 90s), do you think this is gonna be good ? This is a very old-school type match here, with the style kind of resembling an old Memphis tag match, complete with cocky egotistical heels against the returning veterans that are Flair and Anderson. The psychology in this match is fantastic, as the Blondes work Arn's bad knee for a good portion of the match, and Arn (being the great psychologist that he is) sells it picture perfectly. Whenever Flair was in the ring we saw a more up-tempo pace that had the crowd hot, but when Arn was in the ring we saw a more methodical pace. This match gets over 20 minutes, quite lengthy for tag standards, so a good portion of the match is spent leading up to the climax of the match, which is Arn basically escaping the Blondes to tag in Flair (who the crowd is going absolutely crazy for).

All four workers in this play their roles perfectly, as both Austin and Pillman constantly mock Flair and Arn the entire match until the Horsemen gain the upper hand, in which they shutup and get the tar beaten out of them. There are some really stiff chops in here by all four competitors, but Arn has some really stiff strikes in general. What I dislike about this match, however is the ending. A 2/3 falls match ending in a DQ ? Are you serious ? We spent all this time building up to the climax of the second fall, and what we get is a cheap disqualification which in WCW means that the titles do NOT change hands ? That kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, but other than that we have an absolute classic on our hands. Stiff moves, a hot crowd, great psychology, great structure, and a good story behind it all. These are the kind of tag matches that are extinct in today's WWE.

******


_COTC XXV: Steve Austin vs Brian Pillman_

That sounds more awesome on paper then it really is. Don't get me wrong, as this match is pretty damn great, but with slightly under 10 minutes to work with, it can't really reach the pinnacles of being a near-classic encounter. This is a tale of two matches rolled into one, as first off we have a wild brawl for a few minutes with a few good spots (Austin taking a bump on the ramp and being thrown into the steel railing), with Austin bumping like he was Shawn Michaels or something. Then, once the match moves back into the ring we get some chain wrestling, then we move straight to some near falls. Then, as quick as that happens, the match is over. What this match needed was to be twice as long with a better structure and it could have been fantastic.

This match has quite a few positives though, such as Austin's fantastic bumping and heelish tactics, coupled with Pillmans aerial attack made for a good clash of styles. The brawl at the beginning was great, and the near falls towards the end of the match were good (not great) as well. It's just when the match was over I was left saying to myself "That was it?". I would definitely watch this again in a heartbeat because I enjoyed this match very much, I just think it has a structure that prevents it from being a fantastic match.

*****

_COTC XXVI: Dustin Rhodes vs Steven Regal_

Old school Regal, fuck yes. This is a pure WRESTLING match with a very old school style, which means that most people either love this match, or they hate it. before watching this match I did some research into it, and Most reviews range from **-** 1/2. I'm one of the people who absolutely loves this match and believes that it's severely underrated. Regal is just amazing in this match, his heelish mannerisms are done to perfection. From leaving the ring everytime Dustin gains an advantage to check to time, and resorting to moves like headbutts when he loses control of the match, Regal is just plain awesome. His facial expressions and the way he tells a story with his body language is great. The story is simple: Rhodes is much more athletic than Regal, so Regal plans to keep Rhodes grounded with basic wrestling moves and let the 15 minute time limit expire.

The chain wrestling that takes place between these two is absolutely phenominal, and it seems as if 
each sequence builds up to at least one big move. For example, we have a sequence near the 10 minute mark between these two that goes from a rear chinlock to an eventual gutwrench suplex (an awesome looking one at that) to Dustin. There's so many good things I can say about this match, and if anybody wants an example about how pure wrestling can be entertaining, as well as an example as to why Regal is underrated (Rhodes was awesome at this point, but Regal clearly carried this one), look no further than this severely underrated encounter.

**** 1/2*

_COTC XXVI: Rick Rude & Vader vs Ric Flair & Sting_

This is elimination rules between four very talented workers. This is a match that I feel is another tale of two matches. On a positive side, whenever we have Sting and Vader in the ring we have instant chemistry, as Vader does a variety of suplexes to Sting and Sting has a variety of athletic counters for Vader and it's all pure excitement. Whenever Flair and Vader are in the ring we get some good chemsitry as well. On a negative side, Rude just seemed off on this night. Don't get me wrong, he was still good, it's just that there were a few instances where he got a little sloppy, and a few instances where he forgets to sell a move properly.

The back work from Vader to Flair is tremendous. Vader does a few stiff slams to Flairs injured back, then proceeds to perform two superplexes to Flair, which leads to both men being counted out, leading to a Rude vs Sting one on one affair. Since Rude seemed a bit off, the end portion was the least interesting part of the match, although we has a very good finishing sequence. At the end of the day, this was a pretty great tag match with some bad qualities to it. Definitely COTC main event worthy.

**** 1/4*

_Disc 3_

_COTC XXVII: Ric Flair vs Sting_

This is a unification match for the WCW and WCW international titles (very stupid concept but who 
really cares). I've seen many people give this match ****, and as a matter of fact it's universally 
heralded as a fantastic match. Do I think this match is good ? Certainly, but I feel that it's vastly overrated. When this match was over all I said to myself was "That's it?", because this match seemed to just come and go. I literally JUST watched it and I only remember a few things about it, not a very interesting match at all, the pace wasn't very good. I think this is the match I point to when I claim that the chemistry between Flair and Sting is vastly overrated.

Still, there are a few shining parts to this match. For instance, the ending fits the story perfectly, as Sting only loses because he allows his morality to get to him and pursue Flair. Flair is still pretty good here, and we get all the usual awesome Flair spots, but in this match he seeme to be doing them with less intensity than usual. Many people will probably disagree with me, but I don't think this match is great at all. Above average for sure, but I think the bad pacing and bad build to a climax makes this very MEH. I can still see why it's on the set however, for historical purposes.

*** 3/4*

_COTC XXVIII: Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat_

In the opening moments of the match, Austin does some very fantastic heel things, such as having 
"dragon slayer" written on his tights, accusing Steamboat of pulling his hair during the initial 
lockup, and using Steamboats willingness to stick to the rules at any cost against him to take 
advantage of the match. The opening minutes of this match are fantastic chain wrestling, reminiscent of Flair-Steamboat, these are two masters on the mat who get it done in this match. The strikes and chops are as vicious as ever in this one, with the intensity levels being cranked up to major match levels. I love how Steamboat argues with a fan at ringside while working Austin's arm, and I'm absolutely in love with Steamboat's arm drags. The pace these two are working at is very rapid, and the psychology in this match is fairly good, as Austin sells the left arm that Steamboat has been working quite well. BTW, the one thing I hate about this match: The commentators won't shut the fuck up about Hulk Hogan the entire time. I'm a Hogan fan, but when an all-time classic is happening, just call the damn match.

This match gets even better as it goes on, however leading us to a climax that involves alot of hard hitting moves (Steamboat has an awesome AA type spinebuster and a second rope electric chair drop) and many fantasic false finishes. There was atleast 6 times in this match that I thought it was legitimately over, and as a wrestling fan wanting to be entertained, that's all I can ask for. I absolutely love the finish, as it's a callback to the Wrestlemania III encounter vs Randy Savage, one of the greatest matches of all time. An all time classic for sure, and for historical purposes, during this match Steamboat takes a back bump that led to his retirement. What a way to go out for one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, going out in one of the best matches of 1994 on top of his game, with a title in his hands and a victory over one of the greatest of all time. 

***** 1/4*

_COTC XXXII: Ric Flair & The Giant vs Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage_

I think Hulk Hogan is one of the most underrated workers of all time, I truly do. I also believe that when WCW threw guranteed money at him, he got extremely lazy in the ring and refused to give it his all, resulting in a TON of shitty performances (this being one of them). The Giant has had about 5 matches at this point and absolutely sucks in the ring, so naturally when him and Hogan are together in this one, it's pretty bad. There IS however, A cool moment where Hogan slams The Giant and the fans go beserk, but that's the extent as to how good these two were in this match. Also, a football player named Kevin Greene is here and he gets into a heated argument with Flair but I could really care less.

The saving grace of this match which actually makes it kind of decent, are the performances of Randy Savage and Ric Flair, and their chemistry in the ring together. These two know how to work well and how to have a solid match in between the ropes. Whenever these two are in the ring in this match, it's actually exciting, as Flair does his normal Flair schtick (he does it with Hogan as well, but not as effective) with his great heel mannerisms, and the Macho Man is the perfect foil to it. Not much to say about this match, on one hand you have bad performances from Hogan and the Giant, and good performances from Naitch and Savage. Not a bad match and definitely worth a watch, and even if Hogan is bad in this, he is usually entertaining to watch.

*** 1/2*

_COTC XXXIII: Bull Nakano vs Madusa
_
These two had a match that is featured on the "Greatest stars of the 90s" DVD that was actually quite good. This match, however is nothing like that one. This match is less than four minutes long, and is sloppy as hell. I can't think of too many things to say on this one besides that the early hair pulls by Nakano to Madusa looked really fucking painful. Other than that, not much to say here besides WHY THE FUCK WAS THIS ON THE DVD?!!?! You have all of these matches that took place during these events, and you choose THIS match for a "Best of" DVD? A short, sloppy women's match (with a horrible ending as well) that is easily forgettable and a pretty bad watch as well. Not a DUD for those awesome hairpulls. 

*1/4 **

_COTC XXXIII: Diamond Dallas Page vs Eddie Guerrero_

This wasn't given a whole lot of time to work with, but for the time that it lasted it was a pretty 
good match. Eddie at this point was on fire, putting on consistently good matches everytime he stepped into the ring, so he was put into a feud with DDP to basically improve DDP's in-ring skills. The highlights of this match are the moves (specifically the tilt-a-whirl backbreaker and vicious sitout powerbomb both executed by DDP), Eddie's great selling, a few good near falls, and a shocking ending with the underdog(Eddie) getting the major upset victory. Not a very long match at all, but this is all quality. If you're a fan of "underdog" type matches, or a Guerreo fan in general, this is a good example of what he was capable of putting on in such a short period of time.

*** 1/2*

_COTC XXXIII: Sting & Lex Luger vs Harlem Heat vs The Steiners _

This tag match was contested under triple-threat-tag WCW rules, which basically means that anybody 
could tag in anybody. While that's a pretty cool concept, it allows for alot of chaos to occur in the ring, and too many things happen that you can really keep track of. I love Harlem Heat, and since Booker T probably spent more time in the ring than anybody else in the match, I automatically like it. There's a good dynamic in this match where at the beginning, both face teams tag each other in to get equal shots at the heel team, but realizing that in order to get the win you must actually be in the ring, the two face teams turn on each other and it basically becomes an out of control race with plenty of hot tags and every man racing for the tag titles.

This match was all over the place, but it made for some excitement and some fast paced moments, which I always like. From an athletic standpoint this match was pretty good, as a majority of these men are highly athletic specimen, so to say that this match relies less on wrestling ability and workrate, and relies more on the athletic tools that these guys have is an understatement. I'll actually go out on a limb as to say that this match has one of the dumbest finishes to a match that I've ever seen, and one of the worst excuses for a cheap DQ finish ever. Other than that though, this match isn't really something that memorable. Just a cheap little match with some good action and a bad ending.

*** 3/4*

_COTC XXXIV: Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon_

Right here we get a match featuring a wrestler in the midst of one of wrestlings all time greatest 
primes (Dean Malenko in 1997), and one of the most underappreciated workers in the cruiserweight 
division over the years (Ultimo Dragon), and the result is certainly not disappointing. Fantastic 
opening chain-wrestling sequence, as it was incredibly fast paced, but the moves were so crisp 
(something you don't see too much of). The variety of holds used by Malenko in this match are awesome, and the various counters that Dragon has for them such as stopping a figure four leglock by just holding onto Malenko's leg to stop him from applying the pressure are absolutely excellent. Dean's expression never changes here as usual, but what we get is a great story between the calculated face, and the high flying heel, which we've rarely seen in wrestling history.

Around the midway point of the match, we start getting to the heavy hitting portion of the match, where Malenko breaks out his entire book of suplexes and slams, while Dragon uses various high flying moves in a nice clash of styles. The selling here is fantastic for two men working at such a fast pace. The climax and closing portion of the match is fabulous, as we get some fantastic near falls and submission reversals. The ending sequence is awesome as well, making this match an all around masterpiece, and the best EXCLUSIVE match on the DVD so far (and looking at what's ahead I doubt that will change).

******

_COTC XXXV: Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Jericho_

These two have always had some great chemistry, and this was no exception. This match could have used ALOT more time (seems like I'm saying that alot on this set), but was absolutely fantastic for the time it lasted. Eddie's heel mannerisms in the beginning of the match, alongside Jericho's responses to these mannerisms are absolutely awesome. The story here was very simple, we have a cocky heel and a humble face, both trying to prove that they're the better man in the ring, nothing complicated. These two are working at an extremely fast pace here, and all of these moves are so crisp (I really need to watch more 1997 Cruiserweight division), I actually can't believe how fluid these guys are working.The match isn't given time to develop properly, but the ending sequence is fantastic, with plenty of nearfalls until Jericho finally scores the win. If this has gotten more time, it's easily ****+ territory, as this match was white hot from bell to bell, with crisp matwork, high flying moves, and fantastic counters, what more can you ask for in such a short match ? One of the best matches I've seen at such a short time. Fantastic for when it lasted.

**** 1/4*

_COTC XXXV: Lex Luger/DDP vs Randy Savage/Scott Hall_

HAPPY BIRTHDAY NWO !!! That's pretty much what this match is all about, the belts being announced as on the line about one minute prior to the match being started. As for the match itself, it isn't anything really special, just a formulaic tag-team match involving a few talented workers. The formula in this case (one man being beaten down for the entire match by the heels at a slower pace, then the hot tag is made and the pace gets faster) actually works, as we spend a great portion of the match with Savage and DDP in the ring, two men who have undeniable chemistry as evidenced by their bouts from earlier in the year.

There are a few good things about this match. DDP's selling (he was the man being worked on for a 
majority of the match) was fantastic, as both Savage and Hall worked the ribs to perfection, showing great ring psychology. Another positive in this match is the crowd; they are absolutely crazy for this match for whatever reason, and they make this match (what should have just been a basic tag) much more interesting than it should have been. Deservedly on the DVD because it's the last match in Clash history, plus the segments before and especially after the match are fucking awesome, a great way to close the DVD.

*** 3/4*

_Thoughts_

Here is a very telling statistic for you: In the top 100 WCW matches of all time list, there were 9 
COTC matches featured. THREE of those matches were featured on this DVD, only ONE of them not being 
repeats from previous sets. I feel in order to review a DVD, you must consider what could and should have been on it, and for this DVD to exclude matches such as Vader vs Dustin (which hasn't been released on DVD at all IIRC) while filling out the set with short matches that have NO historical purpose such as DDP vs Guerrero, Nakano vs Madusa, etc, REALLY pissed me off. This is supposed to be the BEST OF the Clash of the Champions, not the "Mediocre but some of these matches have stars in them" Clash of the Champions DVD.

Out of 24 matches, I have FIVE of them at ****+, with only one of those matches being exclusive to this DVD, while I have ELEVEN matches on this set that are under ***. How does that possibly happen on a DVD like this ? That is completely unacceptable, and while we do get a few GOOD matches, we don't get any great exclusive content. This is one of the biggest missed opportunities in the history of WWE DVD, there are so many questionable match choices on this (The Women's match, Batle Royal, Mascaras-Foley, Russian Chain Match, the 3-4 quick matches that are almost unrateable), and everything on here that's worth owning is already on DVD (excluding Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon). There are some bright spots, there are a few matches ranged from ***-*** 1/2 that are worth a watch(nothing you NEED to own), but if you already own all the Ric Flair DVDs and Stone Cold DVDs, it would be best if you stay away from this one. If you don't own alot of WCW footage (or if you don't own any Flair DVDs), you should pick this up, as you'll get a few Flair gems. This DVD passes solely based off of those few awesome exclusive matches (Rude-Sting, Dragon-Malenko, Regal-Rhodes).

*6/10*


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

People Power Battle Royal: well that happened

*WWE Over the Limit 2012*
Tag Championships: ****
Beth/Layla: ***, FUCKING SELL LAYLA U WHORE
Fatal 4-Way: ****1/4*, JERICHO!~!~!!!
Miz/Brodus: bad
Christian/Rhodes: **1/4*
Punk/Bryan: ******, super awesome but Sheamus/Bryan still better imo
RYBACK: ryback
JOHN VERSUS JOHN: ****, kinda fun? EHH


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent reccommendations as always, was wondering on which is the best one to get out of these DVD's:

*ECW One Night Stand 2006 & Barely Legal
Money in the Bank 2011*

Havn't seen any of them and can only afford one atm (also buying a couple of other with it)

Goona get the other one down the line, in your opinion, which one first?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MITB first, UNLESS you are a big ECW fan. Otherwise, match quality wise, you aren't getting much with the ECW disc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> MITB first, UNLESS you are a big ECW fan. Otherwise, match quality wise, you aren't getting much with the ECW disc.


(Y) Thanks mate, i was more inclined with MITB mainly because i havn't watched that much ECW if im honest...


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XX*

Cena/Show - ****
Enjoyable match, the crowd got into it and loved Cena, decent start to the show.

Raw F4W Tag Match - ****
Fun filler match, which would become a theme of this PPV.

Christian/Jericho - *****1/4*
This was an awesome match I have watched over and over again. A great wrestling match with nice unique spots and a (at first watch) suprising ending.

Evolution/Rock&Sock - ******
I love this match, it's 5 awesome superstars giving the crowd everything they want. It had the right ending with Evolution winning, and went very by very quickly for 17 minutes.

Playboy Evening Gown Match - *1/4**
Fun Filler I guess.

Cruiserweight Open - ***1/2*
Very fun match yet again, match flowed quite nicely. Mysterio should of won though.

Goldberg/Lesnar - ****
Not much wrestling happened here, but the crowd made this match so memorable that I enjoy to watch it, so i'll give it two stars.

SD F4W Tag Match - ****
Just the same as the Raw match really with different superstars.

Victoria/Molly - ****
Decent woman's match, more filler though.

Guerrero/Angle - ******
Terrific contest, back to back action, flowed beautifully, creative ending, time flew by and a well deserved WM moment for Eddie.

Taker/Kane - ****
Fantastic return for the deadman (entrance wise), and a decent match to bring his character back.

HHH/Benoit/HBK - *****1/2*
One of the best WM main events of all time, I would of given it the whole 5 if the crowd was into it more at the start (but after 5 hours who could blame them?). I loved the DX table spot with Benoit, and the ending was phenomenal. 


One of the best WM's of all time. Four great matches, fun filler inbetween and in the supposed trash match of the night (Lesnar/Goldberg) the crowd made it memorable.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone have the Best Of Saturday Nights Main Event Set? Goona get that or the Wrestling High Flyers' Set.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Someone wrote up a good review on the SNME DVD a while back in this thread but I can't remember who.

Watched The Rock's doc yesterday. Wasn't anything great but wasn't too bad either. Didn't go in depth into any of his feuds at all though. (N)


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

Had nothing to do today, so just finished watching Wrestlemania 21 again. Did up a quick review of it.

*Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - ****
I've seen some pretty bad criticisms of this match before, some go as far as calling it Eddie's worst ever match. I think that's a bit harsh, it's a solid match, and a good choice to open the show. Would've maybe preferred to see Eddie get the win, but if I remember correctly Eddie turned full on heel not long after this (I could be wrong on that), so I guess it was necessary.

*MITB 1 - *****
Not my absolute favourite MITB, but it'd be up there. Shelton steals the show (what a surprise) in this one, the highlight of the match is the infamous run up the ladder spot, and he pulls out a T-Bone off a ladder. The Benoit headbutt is a bit cringe-inducing looking back, but it's a great spot for what it was. This was the birth of Edge's main-event push, so it's a historic match for the fact that it was the beginning of a HOF'ers big-time run, if nothing else.
*
Undertaker vs Randy Orton - *****
Probably the best streak match yet at the time, and possibly the time when (if ever) it should have ended. Would've put Orton over massively, and maybe they wouldn't have had to put as much work into him as they did subsequently. The Chokeslam into an RKO is one of my favourite counters ever.

*Trish Stratus (C) vs Christy Hemme (Women’s Championship) - 1/2**
Errm, yeah, not a whole lot to say about this, apart from the fact that it's painful to watch. Christy was awful in the ring. Just plain awful. 

*Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - ****1/2*
I love this match. It's just plain awesome. My only gripe with it is the ending, it came across as a bit of an anti-climax with Michaels having been in the Ankle Lock for so long and then just tapping out. Feels a bit dragged out. Other than that though, nothing bad to say about it. Angle being frustrated by Michaels mat wrestling at the start is great, we get the obligatory HBK back working, and the Angle Slam from the top is fucking sweet.

*Big Show vs Akebono - DUD*
To this day I don't get what the point in this was, I doubt Akebono drew a whole load of PPV buys, which is usually the idea behind the 'celebrity' matches. Doesn't go on long enough to warrant taking the ropes off the ring in the middle of the fucking PPV either.

*JBL (C) vs John Cena (WWE Championship) - **1/2*
I was surprised by this, there are audible boos for Cena during this, back in 2005. I honestly didn't think the Cena-hate was around that far back. But yeah, it's not great. The birth of Super-Cena, who gets his ass kicked for the whole match, then makes his miraculous comeback we've seen hundreds of times since. JBL's epic reign deserved a better ending than this.

*HHH (C) vs Batista (World Heavyweight Championship) - ***1/2*
Solid enough main-event. Motorhead provide the music for HHH's entrance, and it's utter garbage. Flair provides a couple of distractions for HHH to go for belt shots/low blows, and Batista still overcomes him with relative ease. We don't even get a Pedigree in this which is disappointing. Other than that though, it was a well executed slow build, and the younger guy goes over. Logical booking 101.

Overall it's a good show, not one of the best Wrestlemanias, but far from the worst. 7/10.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

Just another thing I noticed from watching WM21. Remember this guy from WM25 and WM26 in the I Hate Cena shirt shouting abuse at Cena after his matches at both shows?










Well here he is at ringside at WM21, in a Cena t-shirt...










EDIT: shit, sorry for the double post


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SNME set is one of the most fun releases ever. Only maybe... 2 legit "great" matches, with everything else being super fun at the very least. A great throwback to that era and those characters. Tremendous nostalgia trip watching it.



> *Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - ****
> *I've seen some pretty bad criticisms of this match before, some go as far as calling it Eddie's worst ever match. *I think that's a bit harsh, it's a solid match, and a good choice to open the show. Would've maybe preferred to see Eddie get the win, but if I remember correctly Eddie turned full on heel not long after this (I could be wrong on that), so I guess it was necessary.


Whoever said that is a genius :side:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> Someone wrote up a good review on the SNME DVD a while back in this thread but I can't remember who.
> 
> Watched The Rock's doc yesterday. Wasn't anything great but wasn't too bad either. Didn't go in depth into any of his feuds at all though. (N)


Thanks mate, found it in the old DVD THread, think ill order that first and the High Flyers later on.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

zep81 said:


> (Y) Thanks mate, i was more inclined with MITB mainly because i havn't watched that much ECW if im honest...


I've never saw that event before either but will be ordering it later, £5.99 from silvervision sounds a bargain.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

SNME DVD set is one of my fav sets the WWE released of its own material. Its some really good stuff on there. I've watched something on there regularly since I bought it months ago.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Anyone knows why SilverVision doesn't show Pre-Orders anymore?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Everyone's thoughts on Backlash 2001. Personally I think it was good but some matches weren't great. However it's worth it for Angle/Benoit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Everyone's thoughts on Backlash 2001. Personally I think it was good but some matches weren't great. However it's worth it for Angle/Benoit.


I like it a lot. Love the main event tag match more than most, Angle/Benoit is probably my favourite match between them, Rhyno Vs Raven is such a fun hardcore match, 6 man tag is enjoyable and a solid tag bout, Shane Vs Show is a ton of fun. Regal/Jericho probably not as good as it should have been given the talent involved. Same for the triple threat, but I wouldn't call ANYTHING on this show bad.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I find Shane incredibly fun to watch. His matches may not be technically sound but he's been in some awesome stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shane was great. The Boss's son, and all he wanted to do every time he went out was entertain. Like Vince, he had no problem taking big bumps and whatnot, showing the boys that they wouldn't do anything they wouldn't ask them to do. Gotta respect them both for that.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Did you guys think that the Backlash 2001 main event was sloppy? Cos I sure did.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought it was incredible. Better than the overrated HHH/Austin Vs Benoit/Jericho.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I thought it was incredible. Better than the overrated HHH/Austin Vs Benoit/Jericho.


I don't think it's overrated (I like the Backlash match too) but it might be bacause as the 9 year old I was at the time I was huge fans of Benoit/Jericho and thought it was the greatest thing of all time when they teamed up. That match and the TLC III match bring back so many memories for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think its overrated in the sense that its often referred to as one of the best tag matches ever and the best tv match ever. Don't think its even close to being either.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Shaun Blackford's Backlash 2001 review if you guys are interested.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't say I'm interested . Love WWEDVDNews.com for their news, but have no interest in their videos or reviews lol . Taken me a few years but I've finally found a group of guys whose opinion I value and respect more than anyone else. Even if half of them are drunks :side:.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Not too high on this Best of Nitro DVD yet but :lmao:lmao:lmao at Nash getting tossed out of the ring by DDP onto the table and almost tossing the table into the crowd.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I'm going to meet Bret Hart in 11 days, and I was just wondering what opinions you have of the man, and where would you place him all time (In terms of both in-ring, and as a total package). Also, I'd like somebody to give me a list of their top 5 favourite Bret matches ever. Personally, my favourite Bret Match is either SS 96 vs Steve Austin, SS 97 vs The Undertaker, or ONO 97 vs The Undertaker.

I might go ahead and rewatch a HUGE amount of Bret matches, just to come up with a top 10-20 or something. As of right now though, he's in my top 5 all time in terms of in-ring, and perhaps top 10 in terms of the total package (he was just THAT good in the ring, fantastic workrate mixed with excellent psychology, knew pacing perfectly).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> So I'm going to meet Bret Hart in 11 days, and I was just wondering what opinions you have of the man, and where would you place him all time (In terms of both in-ring, and as a total package). Also, I'd like somebody to give me a list of their top 5 favourite Bret matches ever. Personally, my favourite Bret Match is either SS 96 vs Steve Austin, SS 97 vs The Undertaker, or ONO 97 vs The Undertaker.
> 
> I might go ahead and rewatch a HUGE amount of Bret matches, just to come up with a top 10-20 or something. As of right now though, he's in my top 5 all time in terms of in-ring, and perhaps top 10 in terms of the total package (he was just THAT good in the ring, fantastic workrate mixed with excellent psychology, knew pacing perfectly).


Wait, WHAT???!!!! You are meeting THE Bret Hart!!!

Always been my favorite wrestler since i started watching back in '88, always an honest worker, great wrestler, i also learnt so much from his book, you are one lucky man mate, 

He is up there for me with any of the best, such a well respected man with every other professional he worked with, loved his Hart Foundation tag matches with Jim as much as the singles matches.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

What is everyone's favourite match that isn't particularly very well known or spoke about a lot, in the mood to watch some entertaining wrestling.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> What is everyone's favourite match that isn't particularly very well known or spoke about a lot, in the mood to watch some entertaining wrestling.


Shelton Benjamin/Chris Jericho - Backlash '05
CM Punk/Rey Mysterio - Capitol Punishment '11
RVD/Benoit - Summerslam '02

Three matches I really enjoy that I just don't remember hearing much about in here.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Brye said:


> Shelton Benjamin/Chris Jericho - Backlash '05
> CM Punk/Rey Mysterio - Capitol Punishment '11
> RVD/Benoit - Summerslam '02
> 
> Three matches I really enjoy that I just don't remember hearing much about in here.


As Punk/Mysterio is still in my memory and one of my favourite matches of last year, I think I am going to give RVD/Benoit (from my favourite Summerslam ever) a watch again and also give Benjamin/Jericho a watch, don't at all remember it. Thanks!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Edge/Benoit Last Man Standing: BL 05

or a little something more recent...

Triple H/CM Punk No DQ: NOC 11 .... Fucking LOVE that match, in my top 10 of 2011.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

No problem Cookie Monster. (Y)



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Edge/Benoit Last Man Standing: BL 05
> 
> or a little something more recent...
> 
> Triple H/CM Punk No DQ: NOC 11 .... Fucking LOVE that match, in my top 10 of 2011.


Agreed with both of those. I almost always forget about Edge/Benoit when I think of Backlash '05 which is odd because they're two of my favorite wrestlers of all time.

And on a second watch when I was less confused, I enjoyed Punk/Trips.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> So I'm going to meet Bret Hart in 11 days, and I was just wondering what opinions you have of the man, and where would you place him all time (In terms of both in-ring, and as a total package). Also, I'd like somebody to give me a list of their top 5 favourite Bret matches ever. Personally, my favourite Bret Match is either SS 96 vs Steve Austin, SS 97 vs The Undertaker, or ONO 97 vs The Undertaker.
> 
> I might go ahead and rewatch a HUGE amount of Bret matches, just to come up with a top 10-20 or something. As of right now though, he's in my top 5 all time in terms of in-ring, and perhaps top 10 in terms of the total package (he was just THAT good in the ring, fantastic workrate mixed with excellent psychology, knew pacing perfectly).


Make sure you've got something planned to say to him, one of my biggest regrets when I met him a couple of years ago and just totally blanked and had nothing to say to him, just got a photo with him and left, felt like a twat :sad:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I met Hogan at this meet and greet event last year and it was an absolute blast. He really knows how to carry himself in public, and brings positive energy with him wherever he goes it seems. Got a photo op with him, got some stuff signed, I'm gonna get the same stuff with Bret and Nash this time. I would imagine that the Bret experience might even be better, seeing that I'm a Canadian and he seems to have a soft spot in his heart for citizens of his home country. He REALLY needs an unreleased collectors DVD like Hogan got.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

*Vengeance 2005*

Carlito/Benjamin - ***3/4*
Victoria/ChristyHemme - *3/4**
Kane/Edge - ****
Michaels/Angle - *****1/4*
Cena/Jericho/Christian - ****1/2*
Batista/HHH - *****1/2*

First half was fun, nothing special, and then the second half came and made this one of the greatest PPV's of the decade. I dont agree when people say that this HIAC match made Batista, I think he was made as soon as he won the Rumble, but this win definately cemented him as one of the main faces of the WWE. It was a brutal match, the barbed wire chair bits were sick.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thoughts on Bret Hart? Great storyteller, and was able to do so much with so little (for a guy often called a great technical worker by people who think being technical is doing fancy mat work and having a bazillion moves). Really his "mat work" was as basic as it got, and his moveset was limited, but he executed it perfectly (or excellently, hence the nickname lol) and worked it all into his matches perfectly. Not as high on him now as I was a few years back, but I still consider him one of the all time greats. Has a great catalogue of matches which holds up very well, and while he was never a wizard on the mic, I loved his heel stuff in 97.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Thoughts on Bret Hart? Great storyteller, and was able to do so much with so little (for a guy often called a great technical worker by people who think being technical is doing fancy mat work and having a bazillion moves). Really his "mat work" was as basic as it got, and his moveset was limited, but he executed it perfectly (or excellently, hence the nickname lol) and worked it all into his matches perfectly. Not as high on him now as I was a few years back, but I still consider him one of the all time greats. Has a great catalogue of matches which holds up very well, and while he was never a wizard on the mic, I loved his heel stuff in 97.


I have to consider Hart a great heel on the mic since I've seen numerous people think that his whiny heel character is what Bret Hart is really like. 

Agree on the analysis of Hart's ring work. He knows how to tell a story and make every move count. I think it's his match with Owen at Mania where I noticed that every single move he did made perfect sense and that's not the only match that I would make that statement about.


----------



## Manelpirolito (Nov 5, 2006)

Anyone have the entire 2008 PPV reviews?


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Triple H/CM Punk No DQ: NOC 11 .... Fucking LOVE that match, in my top 10 of 2011.


Thank goodness....I thought I was the only one. Everyone didn't even get the simple reason for R-Truth's interference.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/HHH NOC match was good, but nothing I'd put in the great category for a PPV main event. The overall match and work was just very "blah" and I didn't feel the level of hate between them in the match as the story pushed out besides the beginning where Punk wasted no time starting the match. The last 5-10 minutes of the match was a clusterfuck, and while it advanced the whole HHH/COO storyline stuff, that whole shit was what left Punk in the dust and put the final nail in the coffin of his summer momentum, which is exactly what shouldn't have happened. Rather than running with Punk and making him the center of that whole storyline, WWE did their typical bs and took 5 steps backwards into making one of their already big guys the center of the big storyline (Cena or HHH at this point in time). Sure Punk was still kind of involved as he teamed with HHH against Awesome Truth, but it didn't feel like he was an important part anymore. It went from Punk's big storyline to HHH (w/ Punk for a little bit) against Awesome Truth.

I think... and I'm not sure, but I think they had plans to make HHH the COO by the end of the year and have something big, but when Punk's shoot caught fire and he became the hottest superstar in the industry for 2 months, they decided to try and use that to fuel HHH's COO run, when really it should've been the other way around.

I don't even have a problem with HHH winning, but it's the fact they shifted all the momentum Punk created from the shoot to Awesome Truth fighting against HHH is what I have a big problem with, and why I don't like the whole clusterfuck ending. I understand what they wanted to accomplish with it and they did accomplish it, but I don't agree with it and there's therefore nothing I like about it.

The brawl and match before that as I said was decent enough, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near one of the best brawls of all time, or one of the best matches of 2011. It's a decent match for me, nothing more. Certainly better than HHH's next two matches (Punk/HHH vs. Awesome Truth and HHH vs. Nash).

I give the match ***.



Cookie Monster said:


> What is everyone's favourite match that isn't particularly very well known or spoke about a lot, in the mood to watch some entertaining wrestling.


Edge/Orton Raw after Backlash 07... Fantastic heel vs. heel match, and off the top of my head the best one ever. I give it ****.

Taker vs. Big Show from NWO 03 is also a good match from what I remember. While it's not quite on the level of their matches from 2008, I'd say it was Taker/Big Show's best match until No Mercy 2008 and it was a good one. Nothing great though, but *** for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Decided to start my Hell in a Cell project tonight, I'm gonna post all of these reviews individually, and when it's all over I'll rank all 25 HIAC matches, as well as give my thoughts on the 3 disc HIAC DVD (That review will be up before the final list is up obviously). Is there a more fitting way to start this list than with the match that I've always believed is the greatest of all time ?

_Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell): IYH: Badd Blood 1997_

This match has everything you could ever possibly dream of coming into this. Two all time greats(with the greatest chemistry of all time IMO)going to war inside the very first Hell in a Cell match with a big fight atmosphere. This match essentially has 3 acts; The first act is basically Shawn running away from Taker, as Taker is finally getting his revenge on Shawn at this point. The storytelling is in a whole different world right here, as every move that Taker executes on Shawn means something to the match. In this first act, Shawn is being picked apart by Taker for his past transgressions, and he does a phenominal job bumping around the ring, selling Undertaker as the most dominant force in the wrestling industry. Undertaker's offense here is so methodical, if I could pick one sequence that describes his character perfectly it would be this one, as he is just this unstoppable force that counters everything Shawn throws at him, a perfect job on the offensive side by Taker.

The second act begins when Shawn finally gets some offense on Undertaker, and begins to take over the match. What I said about a sequence defining an individuals character can also be used for HBK in this second act, as he is just scrapping with Undertaker, trying to survive in a fight that he shouldn't have a chance at winning at all (basically, an annoying pest that won't go away). Shawn's offense is great here, and Taker (who isn't really known for his selling) gives the greatest selling performance of his career. The story shifts from Taker destroying Shawn, to Shawn being in desperation mode and fighting for his own survival on instinct rather than skill. Shawn's "plan" it seems, to injure a camera man and plan an escape route from the Undertaker if needed, is excellent and one of the deepest things I've ever seen in a match.

The third act begins after Taker sits up from SCM, and all hell begins to break lose. This third in final act will probably be best known for two things; Shawn Michaels INSANE bumping off of the cell and all around the arena, and the debut of Kane. This act consists of Taker finally getting his payback on Michaels, throwing him all across the cage until the end of the match, where Kane debuts and costs Undertaker the match. Although Undertaker loses the match, it's a fair assumption to say that he ultimately won the war and got his payback on Michaels, who in turn is a bloody heap who can barely crawl in a pool of his own blood to even cover Taker. I'm sitting here now in amazement, as this match gets better with every rewatch. This is THE greatest storytelling to ever take place in a wrestling ring. The brutality is amazing, and Michaels bumping is the greatest I've ever seen. This is without a doubt, the greatest professional wrestling match of all time, and one of my favourite matches ever. This is the only match in history that I believe a five-star rating dosen't do justice.

*******

So..Yeah...I pretty much gave away my number one, but that should have been obvious anyways. I don't think any of these reviews are gonna be this good however, because this might be the easiest review I've ever written. I can't wait to watch the rest of what I believe to be the greatest gimmick match of all time, the Hell in a Cell.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

_Ric Flair vs Triple H - Raw 12/31/07
Career vs Royal Rumble Spot_

Potentially Flair's last match ever against one of his best friends, Triple H. Knowing Triple H's background and stature, he's one of the few people that you could really see retiring Flair. Having this match in North Carolina was a genius idea and the symbolic idea of Flair's last match being on the last day of the year is really interesting.

The match itself was really fun. Flair pulling out all his moves in the hopes of keeping his career alive in front of his home crowd. Both of these guys know how to really work a match and the emotion to it felt like that of HBK/Flair on a smaller level. The figure four spot had me honestly thinking that Flair had a chance of making Trips tap, considering Trips' respect for Flair. The ending itself was ok but I would've loved to see Flair kick out of the pedigree. Regal's interference made sense though since he was feuding with HHH at the time and it screwed HHH over and kept Flair's job. There were a bunch of endings I could have seen being awesome but it was still a really entertaining match. Nothing like their '05 feud but I liked the emotion behind it. Triple H helping Flair up after the match and embracing was a really nice touch as well.

****1/2*


Going through alot of TV matches for the moment. Tons of stuff I haven't seen in a long time.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Backlash 2007

Cade/Murdoch vs. Hardyz - ***1/4
MVP vs. Benoit - ***1/4
Melina vs. Mickie - ***
Lashley vs. McMahons/Umaga - **1/4
Undertaker vs. Batista - ****
Cena vs. Michaels vs. Orton vs. Edge - ****1/2

One of the best WWE shows ever, amazing stuff.


----------



## Duponh (May 15, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Triple H/CM Punk No DQ: NOC 11 .... Fucking LOVE that match, in my top 10 of 2011.


(Y) Same.

Also, Punk's momentum was all gone when he returned in a week following MITB. It was too soon, pretty much took the steam off the angle. After that punk needed HHH's COO character to stay relevant. And HHH's character needed Vince Mcmahon.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Duponh said:


> (Y) Same.
> 
> Also, Punk's momentum was all gone when he returned in a week following MITB. It was too soon, pretty much took the steam off the angle. After that punk needed HHH's COO character to stay relevant. And HHH's character needed Vince Mcmahon.


Can't say I'd agree. It was extremely disappointing and was one of the worst PPV main events of the year bar Cena vs Truth and Cena vs Miz. Mediocre Attitude-Era brawling with no character and has an overbooked ending that would make Vince Russo cringe.


----------



## Duponh (May 15, 2012)

"Attitude-Era brawling with no Character"? Come on it was no classic but it had plenty of character. I guess you wont enjoy the match if you didnt like the finish. Kinda like Booker T-HHH WM 19.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - Street Fight - Smackdown 2011*
An extremely good TV match, definitely up there for a 2011 television MOTY. It's two guys going out there and having an all out wrestling match, which is what Smackdown is known for as opposed to the more entertainment heavy RAW shows. Highly creative spots too, it was well worth the rewatch.


Duponh said:


> "Attitude-Era brawling with no Character"? Come on it was no classic but it had plenty of character. I guess you wont enjoy the match if you didnt like the finish. Kinda like Booker T-HHH WM 19.


I found the match quite boring in itself. By the time the end rolled round, I was actually irritated that I'd wasted my time with it. In fact, the SD street fight I just mentioned was the better match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also not a fan of HHH/Punk. Boring brawling, horrible finish. Wasn't a fan of the angle with the whole bullshit texting, Kevin Nash, and then HHH. Punk went from being the hottest thing in years... to bitching at Kevin Nash. They should have never given Del Rio the title at the end of the SS match. Punk should have kept the belt from then until, well, now lol. Del Rio was a shit champion and in no way deserved it nor needed it (lets face it, even making him the fucking champion didn't get him over). It just ruined the entire angle. FUCK THE WWE!


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Brye said:


> _Ric Flair vs Triple H - Raw 12/31/07
> Career vs Royal Rumble Spot_
> 
> Potentially Flair's last match ever against one of his best friends, Triple H. Knowing Triple H's background and stature, he's one of the few people that you could really see retiring Flair. Having this match in North Carolina was a genius idea and the symbolic idea of Flair's last match being on the last day of the year is really interesting.
> ...


 Great little match. I remember being on the edge of my seat watching it live. I would say this is their best non-stip match together, but it's hard to compare with the match from 2003, which is highly emotional but for completely different reasons.

I wish they would have released a DVD of his last run, including the matches and promos with Orton, Umaga, HHH, McMahon, etc. It was a great run with a lot of suspense, and there quite a few good-great matches in the mix.

But for that matter, I also want to see another Flair set, something with a lot more '94 - '03 in it. The last set completely skipped everything from that era, and he had quite a few memorable matches in WCW and in his return to WWF/E.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I see your Flair Vs HHH 07, and I raise you Flair Vs HHH 06:

*Triple H Vs Ric Flair - Raw 06/02/2006*

If anything, I think this might be fun. Man, I keep saying that about shit I wanna watch from Raw 06 lol.

Just a few months ago they were beating the living shit out of each other as HHH tried to end the career of the Nature Boy. Now its all about WrestleMania, with the winner advancing in a tournament (I think) to become #1 contender for the WWE Title.

The first move is a shoulder block by HHH, knocking Flair down. HHH just looks at Flair in disgust, wondering just what the hell this old man is doing in the ring with him. So Flair gets up and hip tosses HHH to the mat. Awesome lol.

They might not be feuding any more, but HHH still wants to kill Old Man Flair, and regardless of your feelings towards HHH as an in ring performer, I personally think some of his absolute BEST performances have been against Flair in 2005, and he's bringing more of that greatness here. And Flair isn't being carried either; he's selling every shot like its near death, doing the Flair flop, and fighting back better than any old man I've ever known. Anyone else think that 05/06 Crazy Old Man Flair Vs Grumpy Old Man Tenryu would have been fucking awesome?

Flair's comeback is glorious in so many ways, from HHH's selling to Flair flipping off The Game while in the figure four. Based on this match I would have been fine with Flair main eventing WM against Cena over HHH :lmao.

In the end, youth prevails over experience, with HHH surviving everything Flair threw at him and came back with the Pedigree.

This is awesome. Its fun, bags of fucking fun. Its got quality too, and I think it might have just surpassed Edge/Flair TLC to become my current #1 Raw 2006 match! So, why is this never talked about? Its better than their LMS match imo!!!

*Rating: ***3/4*

 

Need to watch that 07 match again though, haven't seen it since it aired. Got a 3 disc set or something around here with his "final run" in WWE stuff. Might have to dig it out.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Duponh said:


> "Attitude-Era brawling with no Character"? Come on it was no classic but it had plenty of character. *I guess you wont enjoy the match if you didnt like the finish.* Kinda like Booker T-HHH WM 19.


That's completely untrue for me. However, I found the brawling portions of the match to be really uninspired and was pretty boring outside of a few spots. I'm not trashing in the Attitude Era when I say 'Attitude-Era brawling'. In fact, it can be a damn fine style of wrestling when done right. Rock, Austin and even Triple H can be brilliant at it, but at times it can fall flat and just come of as two guys throwing weak shots while waiting to do the next spot and this was the case here.

I actually thought the ending was alright before things went extremely overboard with the interference.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs Mankind & Kane (Hell in a Cell): Raw 1998
_
To rate this as a match really isn't fair, as this is more of an angle that was used to set up the subsequent King of the Ring PPV that was coming up in about thirteen days. This match didn't have a structure and didn't even have a beginning or a finish, however that dosen't mean that this match dosen't rock, because it does. This short 6 minute match is worth watching for two reasons: The dominating brawl by Stone Cold to Mankind and Kane (I mean, he destroys both of them and it's awesome), and Paul Bearer's INSANE blade job. I actually can't believe Paula Bearer bladed like that. All this match is, is literally Stone Cold brawling outside the Cell and Undertaker destorying Paul Bearer inside the cell. AWESOME segment and I loved every second of it, but to throw a rating on this isn't fair at all. I don't even think a bell rings once.

*N/A (Awesome, however)*

I kind of think I SHOULDN'T include this match on my final ranking of all the Cell matches, thoughts ?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I quite enjoyed Triple H vs. Punk. The fallout was terrible though.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/619527-top-5-matches-pg-era.html

The amount of Punk/Bryan responses makes my head hurt.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> _Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs Mankind & Kane (Hell in a Cell): Raw 1998
> _
> To rate this as a match really isn't fair, as this is more of an angle that was used to set up the subsequent King of the Ring PPV that was coming up in about thirteen days. This match didn't have a structure and didn't even have a beginning or a finish, however that dosen't mean that this match dosen't rock, because it does. This short 6 minute match is worth watching for two reasons: The dominating brawl by Stone Cold to Mankind and Kane (I mean, he destroys both of them and it's awesome), and Paul Bearer's INSANE blade job. I actually can't believe Paula Bearer bladed like that. All this match is, is literally Stone Cold brawling outside the Cell and Undertaker destorying Paul Bearer inside the cell. AWESOME segment and I loved every second of it, but to throw a rating on this isn't fair at all. I don't even think a bell rings once.
> 
> ...


Most people forget this match (and the other Raw one with Kane vs. Mankind I believe) even exist. I don't see anyone ever including them in any rankings of anything.



-Mystery- said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/619527-top-5-matches-pg-era.html
> 
> The amount of Punk/Bryan responses makes my head hurt.


Can't say I'm with ya on that, but the amount of Taker/HHH WM28 and Lesnar/Cena ER hurts my head as well.

But eh, the matches did just happen, so can't say I'm surprised. Even Rock/Cena I spotted a few times as well in my skimming through the thread.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

-Mystery- said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/619527-top-5-matches-pg-era.html
> 
> The amount of Punk/Bryan responses makes my head hurt.


Its deserving of everything it gets really a real masterpiece of in ring wrestling and how to worl a crowd. IF HBK had this match no one would be complaining.

Brock lesnar/Cena match now that is overrated. Just half an hour of Lesnar beating the crap out of Cena . Good match but thats it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1. Undertaker Vs HBK WM 26
2. Undertaker Vs HBK WM 25
3. Undertaker Vs HHH WM 28
4. Undertaker Vs HHH WM 27

Uhhh... when exactly did the PG era start? Not sure what my #5 would be .


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

hardyorton said:


> Its deserving of everything it gets really a real masterpiece of in ring wrestling and how to worl a crowd. IF HBK had this match no one would be complaining.
> 
> Brock lesnar/Cena match now that is overrated. Just half an hour of Lesnar beating the crap out of Cena . Good match but thats it.


It's a great match, but one of the top 5 matches in the last 5 years? Lol no. I could probably find 10-15 better matches, honestly.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

-Mystery- said:


> It's a great match, but one of the top 5 matches in the last 5 years? Lol no. I could probably find 10-15 better matches, honestly.


In terms of that style of wrestling i doubt it. Plus having the crowd eating out of their hand was amazing only the matches below had that. 

HBk vs Undertaker at WM 25 and 26
HHH vs Undertaker at WM 28
Cena vs Punk at MITB 

Have a go Mystery at naming better matches.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I thought that Sheamus/Bryan from ER was comfortably better.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

hardyorton said:


> In terms of that style of wrestling i doubt it. Plus having the crowd eating out of their hand was amazing only the matches below had that.
> 
> HBk vs Undertaker at WM 25 and 26
> HHH vs Undertaker at WM 28
> ...


Michaels/Cena at Mania 23
Edge/Michaels/Orton/Cena at Backlash
Michaels/Taker at Mania 25
Michaels/Taker at Mania 26
Cena/Punk at MITB
Taker/Edge at Summerslam
Jericho/Mysterio at GAB
Michaels/Flair at Mania 24
Michaels/Jericho at No Mercy
Hardy/Triple H at No Mercy
Michaels/Orton at Survivor Series
Cena/Edge at Backlash
Team WWE/Nexus at Summerslam

That's all I have right now and that's without TV matches and any of those awesome Chamber matches from '08-'10.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Mysterio/Jericho from THE BASH is a near five star encounter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SilverVision's Wild Wednesday this week is going to be http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/The-Ladder-Match-2-Crash-Burn-Blu-ray-2-Discs.html at £7.99. Looks like I'll be picking up a WW deal two weeks in a row . Wasn't THAT interested in this set when it came out tbh, but I just looked over the listings again and there are a ton of TV matches on it which greatly interests me. Plus, the bluray exclusives include Miz/Lawler which was awesome (and to this day still Miz's second best match behind the Daniel Bryan match).


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Miz/Lawler was the first match I watched on that set.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Clique said:


> Mysterio/Jericho from THE BASH is a near five star encounter.


I prefered their Extreme rules match.Jericho and Mysterio really had me on the edge during that match. The Bash match was great too.



-Mystery- said:


> Michaels/Cena at Mania 23
> Edge/Michaels/Orton/Cena at Backlash
> Michaels/Taker at Mania 25
> Michaels/Taker at Mania 26
> ...


No way on 1st match and last four matches. Tha last match was ruined by Super Cena booking and the others were good 4 star matches. The raw match between HBK/Cena was better.

had Jericho/HBK at no mercy, Cena/Punk at MITB and HBK/Taker at WM25 in my top 5 matches. Great Storytelling in the Jericho and HBK feud in and out of the ring.

I stand by Bryan and Punk been a Top 5 match of the PG ERA. So far my match of 2012.

Thanks for writing up that list by the way.

I was just watching the Chris Jericho dvd and watched the match Jericho had with The Rock for The WCW championship at No Mercy 2001. Really a great match that had the crowd split down the middle between two babyfaces. **** even with the overbooked ending. Great Chemistry between these two guys.

What other matches should i watch or keep an eye out for between these two legends?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

-Mystery- said:


> *Michaels/Cena at Mania 23*
> Edge/Michaels/Orton/Cena at Backlash
> Michaels/Taker at Mania 25
> Michaels/Taker at Mania 26
> ...


I'd respectfully disagree with all those matches minus Taker/HBK WM25, especially the bold ones, but that is actually a very nice list of fantastic matches for the most part and the ones I didn't bold I could maybe see myself agreeing with an argument for them being better than Punk/Bryan OTL.

Though if I'm being honest, I don't put Team WWE vs. Nexus anywhere near the rest of the list. That's the one match that feels really out of place imo. The rest of the matches I believe I have at at least **** and really enjoy them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_The Undertaker vs Mankind (Hell in a Cell): King of the Ring 1998_

To everybody who claims that this match sucks and that it's comprised of only two spots: FUCK YOU. 
I say that for a few key reasons. Yes, this match is known for it's absolute brutality, perhaps the 
most brutal match of all time. The bumps in this one are absolutely insane, from Foley's fall from 
the top of the cell, to being chokeslammed through the top of the cell and crashing to the canvas below, we see two of the biggest bumps in WWE history. However, what ISN'T mentioned when people talk about this match, are the other examples of brutality in this match, such as Undertaker going headfirst into the cage on a suicide dive, the SICK piledriver to Taker on the chair, and Foley's bumps into the thumbtacks. Absolutely breahtaking brutality here, which is why this match gets alot of detractors.

But here's the thing about all of this brutality that takes place in this match: It actually makes 
sense in terms of the psychology and storytelling that is taking place inside the ring. There is a 
wonderful story taking place inside this match, as Foley knows Undertaker better than any other 
opponent, and he knows that he must cross his limits in order to matchup with the deadman. Foley goes through hell and back (no pun intended), and still manages to mount some offense and even capitalize on some of the Undertaker's mistakes such as attempting old school and attempting a suicide dive. The Undertaker is on a mission as of late, and decides to just keep destroying Foley more and more, until eventually he can't take anymore. The last kickout gasp that Foley has on the eventual pinfall tells me everything about the match; Foley is one tough bastard, and even though Undertaker put him through hell, he's still walking out.

Here's another thing to consider; this match is a HELL IN A CELL. Do you possibly think you're 
going to get a Flair-Steamboat mat wrestling classic ? No. What we did get was a match that 
lived up to it's name. This match was truly hell in a cell, and when you mix in the gripping 
storytelling, insane bumps, and jaw dropping brutality, this is one of the most entertaining 
matches of all time, and an all time classic that will stand the test of time.

***** 1/4*


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I wish I could find my review as to why Team WWE vs. Nexus is so awesome. ****3/4, legit.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

-Mystery- said:


> I wish I could find my review as to why Team WWE vs. Nexus is so awesome. ****3/4, legit.


Would be an interesting read if you could.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Obis said:


> Would be an interesting read if you could.


Honestly, the only arguments I ever see against the match (and this isn't saying it's your reasoning) is "OMG SUPER CENA AGAIN, THIS MATCH SUCKED~!!!!" Granted, I wasn't a huge fan of the DDT then Cena winning it, but that doesn't take away from the awesome match they had with near perfect storytelling (second only to Taker/Michaels that year).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> Mysterio/Jericho from THE BASH is a near five star encounter.


Completely agree. One of my favorite matches to watch when I'm bored.

And I'd love to read that review Mystery. I'm a big fan of that match too but I have it at ****1/4. Really good stuff though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Mankind vs Kane (Hell in a Cell): Raw 1998_

The second of the two short Raw HIAC matches, except this one actually counts as a match. One world I would use to describe this match would be BRUTALITY. It's amazing to think they let Mick Foley take the bumps and shots that he takes in this match, just months after the HIAC match with Undertaker at the KOTR. Once again, Foley shows his worth to the company in an insane brawl that involves him falling off the cell halfways through the announce table, and Foley taking some of the most brutal chairshots I've ever seen from Kane (ala Royal Rumble 1999). Foley again mounts some offense, managing to get some good chairshots and even a thumbtack piledriver in this one, but it just isn't enough as Kane just destroys him with move after move. Kane is about to end this when we get one of the dumbest endings to a match I've ever seen, as Austin interferes and we get a DQ...IN THE CELL...What the fuck? Anyways, this match was short and full of brutality. Foley is amazing.

*** 3/4 (For brutality alone)*


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

-Mystery- said:


> Honestly, the only arguments I ever see against the match (and this isn't saying it's your reasoning) is "OMG SUPER CENA AGAIN, THIS MATCH SUCKED~!!!!" Granted, I wasn't a huge fan of the DDT then Cena winning it, but that doesn't take away from the awesome match they had with near perfect storytelling (second only to Taker/Michaels that year).


The star of that match was Daniel Bryan. The crowd was into him that night. Its a 3 and a half for me. The super Cena comeback left a bad taste in the mouth for me. Nexus should have won.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

So I know there's a lot of deals for DVDs cheap overseas of older PPVs, do any Canadians, or anyone for that matter, know of something similar to that in Canada where you can get older wrestling events on DVD for cheap? Stores I've been to either only have the new stuff or nothing at all.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

In general I'd go for a used DVD shop.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell V*

_Undertaker vs Big Bossman (Hell in a Cell): Wrestlemania XV_

What can I possibly say about what I just witnessed ? There haven't been very many times that I've been SPEECHLESS over how bad and nonsensical a match is, but this is one of them. I might as well take this time to go down a list of reasons why this match sucks. First of all, heel vs heel ? he crowd dosen't know who to cheer here, which makes this a booking disaster from the get go. Secondly, is the Big Bossman honestly the best you can do for Undertaker here ? In this match he is slow, sloppy, and looks like he dosen't know what he is doing. With my respects to the late Ray Traylor, nobody bought that he could beat the Undertaker for a single second, so there was no drama to this match at all. Last booking mistake here is simple: WHY WAS THIS IN THE CELL ? There was no heat here at all for this to be in the cell, although to their credit, they used the cell more than the modern HIAC PPV matches.

Now on to the match itself. It's a mess that takes place on the biggest stage possible, as you can 
clearly tell that Taker is frustrated with Bossman's lack of effort. All of Bossmans moves are sloppy, including a horrible looking neckbreaker, but Taker tries his best to make it look somewhat decent. There is one point in the match outside of the ring where Undertaker goes to ram Bossman into the cell, but Bossman just stops and Taker has the most pissed off look in history on his face. Another problem with this match; they spend about 5 of the 9 minutes in this match WRESTLING inside the ring. It actually blows my mind how bad this match is. We even get a cheap blade job by Taker that is so nonsensical that it would make a 60 year old Ric Flair jealous. I would give it a DUD rating, but the fact that they actually USE the cell at some points, and the fact that Undertaker actually does try somewhat makes it atleast, well...Not a DUD. It's a fucking terrible match, and probably the worst Undertaker match that I've ever seen, and definitely the worst cell match I've ever seen.

*1/4 **


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One giant DUD and one giant TURD of a match. Worst cell ever, and probably the worst Undertaker match ever. I spit on it.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

I've been looking to pick up a few more superstar collections within the next few weeks, so I could do with some reccommendations from you guys

I'm looking at picking up the Jericho and Big Show (been a long-time fan and some of the matches look interesting) sets so some reviews of them will be much appreciated, but any other reccomendations would be welcome.

EDIT: i'm preferrably looking towards sets based on stars of the Attitude Era upto the present (trying to get a bit of history on the guys I grew up watching)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love how Bossman handcuffs Taker to the cell and the cuffs just BREAK. It's absolute wrestlecrap at it's best, and although I will agree that it deserves a DUD rating, I gave it a little better of a rating simply because they used the cell... I actually kind of feel dirty for not giving it a DUD rating now...Maybe I should change it..Hmmmm.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

People who defend Vince Russo need to check that match, feud, and aftermath.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell VI*

_Triple H vs Cactus Jack: No Way Out 2000_

Mick Foley's career is on the line here in his very last cell match, as well as HHH's first of nine cell appearances. Whereas the first cell match had a story that consisted of Taker basically stalking Shawn, and the KOTR 1998 match having a story that consisted of Undertaker looking dominant over a man that just won't give up, this story is a little different. This match tells a story of Triple H being locked in a cell with an unstoppable monster who is willing to do whatever it takes to take the title. The whole story is centered around the fact that Foley is a madman who is comfortable inside the cell, and although at first HHH is afraid to fight, while the match carries on he has no choice but to go to war with Foley inside the cell if he wishes to retain his title and rid himself of the madman once and for all. 

The brutality in this match never ceases to shock me, as it absolutely amazes me as to what lengths Mick Foley will take, and what bumps he will put his body through, in order to tell a story and get the fans involved in a match. Basically Triple H is dominating this one in the ring, until Foley brings Hunter out to his environment, outside the ring, and introduces him to all of his weapons and various toys. Foley wants to get on top of the cell, but Hunter makes sure the cell door has about 12 locks on it to ensure that Mick dosen't escape. The character symbolism is pretty deep here, as this shows us Hunter's confidence in his abilities if he can contain Foley inside the cell, but it also shows us Hunter's fear of Foley thinking outside of the box and bringing the fight outside. The shots in this match are absolutely brutal; The chairshots, steel step shots, and interactions with the cell are all very violent and bloody. I love the throwbacks to the previous Royal Rumble match between these two, like when Foley baits HHH to hit him in the head with a chair, this time (unlike the RR encounter) Foley dodges and uses this to spark his offense.

How these two end up outside of the ring (Foley throwing the steel steps at the cell, busting the side off) is extremely creative. Once these two are outside the cell, Hunter changes his cold, calculated mentality, and runs from Foley (who looks as if he is possessed). The bumps Foley takes outside this cell is amazing, especially the ones off the cage and through the cell. How he still manages to walk after all of this is amazing, and JR's commentary is spot on in this match. Hunter's selling in this is fantastic, making Foley look like an unstoppable force inside the cell. I must also give credit to HHH for his dissective offense in this one. The way he dissects Foley in this one with various shots and calculated manuevers, is something only a prime 2000 Triple H could possibly do. Kudos to both of these competitors to a brutal, entertaining match, with fantastic bumps, EXCELLENT storytelling, drama and excitement. One of the best matches of 2000.

***** 1/2*

So yeah....Just a LITTLE better than the last one....




*Hell in a Cell VII*

_Triple H vs Rikishi vs The Undertaker vs The Rock vs Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle: Arm 2000_

In this match you have 5 world reknowned legends (and Rikishi), in an all out brawl that was probably about two years before it's time (this seems like a match built for the elimination chamber, not the cell). This is a different type of cell match, all cell matches before were built on storytelling and brutality, whereas this cell match is basically the attitude era cell match, with wild, all out brawling, and not a whole bunch of story and psychology to it. If you could really describe this match in one word, I would say fun. This match I don't think hit its potential, but I would definitely say that this is an awesome brawl that's all over the place. Now there IS a smudge of a story that takes place in this match, as Vince Mcmahon dosen't want his six most valuable performers to destroy each other for the championship, so he threatens to take down the cell. This storyline helps set up future spots in the match, as well as giving us a creative scenario in which these six can get out of the ring.

The beginning of this match is just standard attitude era brawling inside the cell, with the highlights being Triple H's bumping and bladejob outside the ring. The action is all over the place until the match turns into a finisher fest (which I always love, even if sometimes they are absolutely nonsensical) with everybody (sans Rikishi) hitting their finishers with some predictable near falls. It's obvious here that we're just waiting for something big to happen, and for all hell to break loose in this one, it's just not here yet and I believe that the predictability of something to happen within the context of a match (obvious spots, etc) is detrimental and takes away from a match. However things begin to take a turn for the best when Vince Mcmahon shows up with a truck and threatens to tear the cell down, ripping the cell door off in the process. This is when all hell breaks loose, and HHH does a fantastic job of bumping all around the arena for Austin. This also sets up a spot where Undertaker CHOKESLAMS RIKISHI OFF THE CELL INTO THE BED OF A TRUCK. I've heard people say that it wasn't bad because there was a crash pad or whatever there, but I'm sorry, at that weight and falling from that distance, it's bound to screw up your inner organs.

This essentially takes Rikishi out of the match (probably the only reason why he was there in the first place), as we get a Wrestlemania preview between Rock and Austin, which was pure awesomeness. A few finishers later and Angle sneaks the victory away from the other competitors. I loved this match because of how fun it was. I didn't really like all the stalling towards the climax of the match, but Triple H's bumping around, the top of the cell spot, and the culmination of all of these feuds into one big match make it a near classic. It isn't the greatest match of all time or anything, but just looking at the names involved in this match, I don't think I've seen too many more FUN matches than this one. They use the cell effectively and manage to make this match just one big fun, messy, near classic.

******


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

RANDOM:

The STAR of the Team WWE vs. Nexus match was SKIP FUCKING SHEFFIELD. Two stars for him alone. One for Bryan's return. Around 4 overall.

Michaels/Cena Mania is leagues better than Bryan/Punk imo, but I also consider that the best WWE Championship match in Mania history (I think).

Also preferred Jericho/Mysterio Extreme Rules to the Bash. That match had everything.

This year alone, I'd put Brock/Cena, Triple H/Taker and Sheamus/Bryan over Punk/Bryan, but I'm sure they'll end up having a better match than the OTL one eventually.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Noticed SilverVison has put the price up for MITB 2011 to £10,99 :sad:

I posted an order yesterday ordering it at the old price of £5.99 as it was that price when i sent it off, hope they understand and still send it, this happened before with the Tagged Classic sale and they honoured that one fingers crossed


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Michaels/Cena Mania is leagues better than Bryan/Punk imo, but I also consider that the best WWE Championship match in Mania history (I think).
> 
> Also preferred Jericho/Mysterio Extreme Rules to the Bash. That match had everything.


No and yes.

Jericho/Mysterio at Extreme Rules was fantastic. Only by a small margin, but it's better than the Bash match. Cena/Michaels is inferior to Bryan/Punk, however.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

No, it's not.


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, it is.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Why?


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Better wrestling.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Disagree.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Agreed WahhWahh!


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Michaels/Cena is ****3/4 easily.



hardyorton said:


> The star of that match was Daniel Bryan. The crowd was into him that night. Its a 3 and a half for me. The super Cena comeback left a bad taste in the mouth for me. Nexus should have won.


Why should Nexus have won? They destroyed the WWE from the moment they debuted until the Summerslam match. They go over and that ends the feud, Nexus owns the WWE. Made zero sense for them to go over.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Michaels/Cens WM- ****

Great main event, but I don't have it as even MOTN (Taker/Batista takes that).


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I thought I was the only one to give Michaels/Cena ****3/4, mind blowing shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***3/4 for HBK/Cena. Prefer their Raw match a few weeks later. Don't think either are better than Punk/Bryan (second best MOTY so far for me).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Word said:


> I thought I was the only one to give Michaels/Cena ****3/4, mind blowing shit.


I knew Hohenheim has it at ****3/4, and up until today I thought he was the only one with that moronically high rating opinion.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

If I rewatched it, I could probably justify why. Haven't seen it in years though but the only thing that bugged me was Cena selling. Proper Mania match too, none of the Cena/Miz nonsense.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I actually watched Wrestlemania 23 for the first time in ages the other day. For my money, Taker/Batista is the clear MOTN. *****1/2* for me, which might be too high for some folks but I think its an amazing match between two heavyweights. They just threw haymakers and power moves at each other, such as Batista's powerslam through the announce table which is just great. Loved that the majority of the crowd was solidly behind Undertaker.

Cena/Michaels is good but it just feels like something is missing. Cena's selling isn't the best, and I didn't really feel the chemistry between them. I'd go ****3/4* though, and it's definitely a worthy Wrestlemania main event. Their one-hour match is better and I have that at around *****1/4*

Jericho/Mysterio from The Bash is fantastic, and their best match together imo. 

Punk/Bryan is an instant classic; better than both Jericho/Punk matches this year which are both awesome.

Punk/Bryan at Over The Limit - *****3/4*
Punk/Jericho at Extreme Rules - *****1/4*
Punk Jericho at Wrestlemania - *****1/2*

And I just got done watching Lesnar/Cena for the second time, and props to Cena for taking such a beating. Some of the stuff dished out from Brock looked legit painful and nasty. ****3/4*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got HBK/Cena at ****1/2 but I prefer Bryan/Punk's match.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Out of:
Best of Saturday Night's Main Event
Starrcade: Essential Colletion
RAW: Best of 15th aniversary

which one should I buy?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Out of:
> Best of Saturday Night's Main Event
> Starrcade: Essential Colletion
> RAW: Best of 15th aniversary
> ...


I have recently ordered SNME DVD so cant comment on that, but Raw ans Starrcade collections are very different, Starrcade is all about the matches with a documentary also, whereas Raw has a couple of matches but is all about the best bits of Raw, but both are excellent collections and essential IMO.

Plus if you were a fan of WCW that helps.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell VIII*

_Triple H vs Chris Jericho : Judgment Day 2002_

Once again the cell is being used to put an end to a feud, this time to the 2002 feud between Triple H and Chris Jericho, and in many ways putting an end to the face push that HHH received after his comeback from injury. What this match may lack in the drama department (Let's be honest, we all knew that HHH wasn't going to job to Jericho in the cell), it makes up for in absolute brutality and carnage. This was Tim White's last match as a WWE referee, and he went out with a bang, being tossed into the cell multiple times by Jericho and sporting a pretty good bladejob(serves him right for saying "Let's keep it in the ring!" about 80 times during this match). This match has a really slow build before we get to the weapons, but that's okay as it gives us something different instead of just trying to mimic the previous cell matches. They keep away from the cell for a little bit, so when Jericho finally hits the steel mesh and gets his arm busted wide open, we're more satisfied. 

After they go through the whole "using the cell as a weapon" phase, this almost turns into a hardcore match inside the cell, with Jericho and HHH using weapons such as a ladder, a chair, and the steps. A painful spot comes when Triple H picks up the steps and THROWS it at Jericho. That spot never ceases to make me cringe. This match is very violent, but it just seems to be missing something (perhaps a face HHH vs a heel Jericho can't tell that effective of a story to most people) that makes the crowd not as into it as most cell matches, but that all changes when Jericho crawls out of the cell door in desperation after HHH hits him with a sledgehammer. I like the psychology here, as Jericho is just leaving the cell on instinct, not realizing what could potentially happen to him. The match is even more brutal on the outside, with a DDT through the announcers table. When these two get to the top of the cell, this ends with a Pedigree on top of the cell. Brutal match, and a near classic, if the crowd was into this, this wouldn't be as forgotten as it is. Underrated.

******


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell IX*

_The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar : No Mercy 2002_

This is a heavily debated match amongst reviewers for a certain reason, but I'll get into that later. I loved the story heading into this match as Brock at this point is an unstoppable monster, but couldn't manage to knock off the Undertaker in a great match at Unforgiven. In retaliation Brock broke the Undertakers hand twice, so this cell match was made. Taker is wearing a cast here and is obviously allowed to use it as a weapon, so that adds an interesting dynamic to the match. When this begins we get a beautiful MMA style exchange between these two, and then Taker just begins HAMMERING (and I mean very very hard) Brock with the cast with some very stiff shots. The facial expressions and body language in this match is just awesome (as well as Heyman's screams. Brock begins to just eye the cast, and starts to just work the hand and arm of Undertaker to perfection, even tying his arm to the cell and nailing the broken hand with a chair several times (btw, Heyman's blade job is INSANE, crazy that it isn't even the biggest bladejob of the night). The intensity is just off the charts here, with Heyman screaming in Undertaker's ear "YOU'RE GONNA DIE". Brock then proceeds to rip the cast off, finally finding an opening to take advantage of.

Now here's where many people find to be the fatal flaw with this match; Undertaker's selling of the 
broken hand. Even though his hand has been worked on and broken, Undertaker still uses his hand for strikes and even a chokeslam at one point. People fucking hate this idea, and believe that since Taker's hand is broken, he should act like it. Here's the problem with that argument: this match is so full of intensity and hatred, it's understandable if adrenaline kicks in and a person eventually hits a "threshold" for their pain and has the ability to withstand any further damage to a certain area of the body. Another reason why this criticism sucks..He's the UNDERTAKER! He gets more or less buried alive and set on fire all the time, and I know this is the Biker Undertaker, but it's still the same guy...Anyways as you can tell I have no problem with Taker's selling at all, and I actually believe that it adds to the match instead of taking away from it. This is just turning into an all out war here, with Taker getting nailed with the steps and breaking out one of the absolute SICKEST BLADE JOBS that I have ever seen. I mean, his face is almost like a faucet here.

This is so back and forth, an interesting dynamic that sets it apart from another all time great cell match (the original). Taker just won't give up, broken hand and busted face aside, and I believe that gives us a new dynamic to the story... Even though Undertaker is past the point of feeling pain, Brock is STILL getting the best of him, and that is putting him over than anyone else ever could. We get a last ride and a fucking FANTASTIC tombstone reversal into an F-5 to end this. This match made Brock Lesnar, I don't care what anybody says, after this match Brock Lesnar was considered the top dog in the WWE. This had amazing intensity, fantastic back and forth action, diverse offense and great psychology, not to mention an amazing ending with some great near falls. An all-time classic in every sense of the word, and one of the biggest wars to take place inside the squared circle.

***** 3/4*

Opinions on this heavily debated match ? Thoughts on Undertaker's selling and it's effect on the storytelling ?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Anyone ever buy 2010-2011 WWE PPV DVD Packages? Seemed like an okay deal..


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Obis said:


> I knew Hohenheim has it at ****3/4, and up until today I thought he was the only one with that moronically high rating opinion.


Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell X*

_Triple H vs Kevin Nash w/ Special Guest Referee Mick Foley : Bad Blood 2003_

After these two had some pretty terrible matches at Judgment Day 2003 and Insurrexion 2003, I don't 
think anybody was expecting very much from this match. I've read various reviews of this match, some going as far to say that this match was "boring" and giving it one to two stars. I'm sorry, but that is just absurd. On a rewatch, I found that this match is definitely main event worthy and certainly a good to great match. I say this because even with Nash being immobile as he is, and Triple H being at a low point in his career, these two worked at a pretty good pace in here, and delivered in the brutality department. This wasn't slow or dragging at all, and you could tell that these two friends in real life were trying to give each other a match they could both remember. Hunter's bumping in this one is absolutely fantastic, the way he just goes flying into the cell, and the way he takes the backdrop to the floor, he is top notch here. There is a point on the floor where Nash attempts a Jackknife, only for HHH to reverse it by grabbing onto the cage. That's pretty intelligent for a match that some claim to be horrible.

Foley is fantastic here as the special guest referee. There is a subplot in this match between him and HHH that's basically there just to generate more interest in this match (because lets face it, Nash can't really be sold that well as a face in 2003), but it actually turns at quite well as Foley manages to take a few ridiculous bumps to the cell in this one, even doing a bladejob at one point! You can't say that this guy isn't willing to do what it takes to make the fans happy. Anyways, Nash's offense is very vanilla here, but the weapons used in this one actually vary quite a bit. I mean, when's the last time you've seen a wooden crate and a screwdriver used in a WWE match ? HHH even uses a mini hammer to work Nash's leg, and Nash actually does a pretty good job of selling his injury (for Nash anyways). Triple H's facial expression after working Nash's face with the screwdriver is so intense, one of the reasons why Triple H is so awesome in this one. You can say what you want about his work in 2003, but in this one he gave 100 percent effort, thats for sure. 

We actually get a VERY close nearfall out of the Jacknife powerbomb that actually led me to believe
that it was over at the time. It was an excellent nearfall, with HHH's timing on the kickout being
amazing. This match will obviously have it's detractors (It's Nash and HHH after all), but at the end
of the day this match should be known as the match where HHH carried Kevin Nash to a great match with
his superb bumping and intensity. Both of these guys brought it here. Not the best cell match by any
means, but a damn good one.

**** 1/2*


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I've found that for the HIAC to work, you'd have to be invested in the feud. That's the big reason I dislike the Triple H/Jericho HIAC and Nash/Triple H HIAC. Plenty more too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XI*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels : Bad Blood 2004
_
These two have been feuding seemingly forever, and what a perfect way to end this (besides a one off match at Taboo Tuesday that was more about Edge and HBK than HHH and HBK) feud, in the cell. As far as this match goes, it's the second 45+ minute Hunter vs Shawn match that happened over a two year span, and as far as Hunter vs Shawn goes, you either love it or you hate it. This match will certainly have it's detractors (HHH vs HBK in a cell for 47 minutes !), but this is a personal favourite of mine for various reasons. First of all, I think this match definitely should have been this long, mainly because of the slow build that this match needed. This was an intense feud that lasted a long time, so it's only natural that these two tell a story like this one. The story in this match is that these two throw absolutely everything possible at one another, but neither one of these men wants to lose to the other (because of personal pride), so neither one will give up. Triple H's offense is very methodical in this one, working HBK's back with some good chair shots, some good outside the ring spots, and even a few side slams on TOP of a chair that looked brutal. Michaels selling and bumping in this match are both superb, as he really sells the back fantastic (even on a kip up, Michaels shows a considerable amount of pain in his body language and facial expressions).

Triple H steps it up in this one as well (at this point in his career he was just getting out of a 
slump and was beginning to pick it up once again), channeling his inner flair with his fantastic heel tactics which included working a body part to perfection (the back), crazy bumping all around the cage just like in the Nash match, fantastic facial expressions and body language, as well as even doing a Flair flop at one point in the match. I think for a 47 minute match this is paced pretty well, it works at a slower pace that eventually heats up, and as the time wears down further and further these two can barely even move to cover one another (which should be expected in a match like this anyways). This match has alot of brutality WITHOUT incorporating a whole bunch of weapons (Steps, Chairs, Ladders and tables are really the only weapons), which says alot about the intensity here. Michaels right hand shots are so stiff that at the end of the match his knuckles are actually swollen alot. The ending in this match pisses alot of people off, because for the last 7-8 minutes or so, it's just finisher after finisher with these guys laying around on the mat. That may be true, but I think that's reminiscent of WM XXVII between HHH and Undertaker, it just says that these two are spent and are pulling out their best stuff.

At the end of the day however, this match is going to have it's critics no matter what. I think it's a decently paced, brutal (without the weapons even), psychology and intensity filled match with some good storytelling, and the perfect way to end a very long feud between two competitors. I think what HOL said after my previous review makes a ton of sense, you NEED to be emotionally invested in a feud to enjoy a feud ending match such as this one. I'm practically in love with HHH, and Shawn is in my top 5-10 favourites ever, so obviously I'm going to love a 47 minute match between the two of them. Not the greatest cell match at all, not even close actually, but a damn near classic encounter and definitely worth a watch. These great cell matches just keep piling up and piling up, it actually astounds me.

******


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I enjoyed it the last time I watched it, but that was years ago. Not tempted to watch it again as a lot of people who used to like the match have rewatched it and found it lesser.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
I actually liked it just the same the last time I watched it a few weeks ago. Great match.




> Courtesy of Shock Entertainment, a number of matches have been revealed for *Falls Count Anywhere: The Greatest Street Fights and other Out of Control Matches:*
> 
> 
> Alley Fight
> ...


http://www.wwedvdnews.com/falls-cou...dvd-update-randy-orton-update-and-more/24056/


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man that Uncensored match blows but the rest of the matches so far look OK to great. Hopefully this will be an eye-opener to a lot of people who've never seen Slaughter/Patterson before. With BB92 Foley/Sting on there I doubt the 91 match will make it, which is a shame because it never gets brought up depite being really great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XII*

_Triple H vs Batista : Vengeance 2005_

This review could be a little biased because I've made no secret that this is one of my top 5 favourite matches of all time, but anyways.. The heat coming into this match was incredible, because I had no idea who was going to win. Was Triple H REALLY going to job 3 times in a row cleanly? Were we FINALLY going to see a classic between these two ? Both of my questions were answered happily after this match, which turned out to be one of the biggest back and forth wars in WWE history. Unlike many other Cell matches, the story between these two is very simple; They hate each other, this is the final encounter, so two of these men will KILL each other in order to claim their rightful place as the World Heavyweight Champion. Triple H was really built up going into this one as the master of the Hell in a Cell, and at the beginning of the match he lives up to this moniker, baiting Batista twice so that he get get on the offensive. 

This match needs no intricacies to it; it's just a simple story of two wrestlers violently destroying each other to see who the better man is. Violence was the name of the game in this one, and we got alot of it. Take Hunter's bumping from the last 2 Cell matches he was in and crank it up about three times as much, as he gets absolutely DESTROYED by some brutal moves/weapons in this one. He takes a barbed wire steel chair to the face, gets mauled with a steel chain, and flies into the cell atleast a half a dozen times, and his expressions and body language are perfect. When Hunter blades, he sells it really well by convulsing and shaking all over the place. Batista deserves just as much credit, however taking some of the sickest looking chairshots to the back by a chair that was covered in barbed wire. You could see the bits of Batista's back bleeding, it was that brutal. These two guys just beat the hell out of one another, and the best thing about this match was how back and forth it was. we were made to believe that this could end at any second, because we saw so many reversals and sways of momentum in this match (steel chain shot into a DDT, top rope fist drop into a sledgehammer shot).

The drama in this was off the charts. The closing five minutes of this are just nail-biting, as Triple H hits the pedigree (which Batista finally kicks out of), and proceeds to reverse another pedigree into a spinebuster on the steel steps. The ending sequence in this match is my favourite ending to a match ever, as Batista loads HHH up for the Batista bomb, HHH grabs the sledgehammer and just when it looks like he's going to nail Batista with it and win the match, Batista puts him down for the 3 count. That climax was absolutely unreal, and even after seeing this match atleast 10 times, it still sends chills down my spine. This match is an absolute WAR, with Batista having his strongest showing ever in this one, coupled with a Triple H on his absolute A+ game, we have a brutal match that is amazing from bell to bell, with one of the greatest buildups and climaxes ever. If this started off faster it would have got the full 5 from me, but it'll have to "settle" for being my 2005 MOTY, and definitely Batista's best match in my eyes.

***** 3/4*


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, that's probably the best Cell match for me.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Triple H/Batista is the one HIAC match in my view that just keeps aging better and better. 

Also just finally saw Wrestlemania XXVIII on blu-ray and the End of an Era HIAC match is _so_ much better than I even thought it was. Glorious match. The storytelling, all of the nuances, you can actually capture many of them much more easily with a DVD in your living room on a leather couch than _at_ Wrestlemania, haha--but of course that atmosphere and overall experience is second-to-none.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XIII*

_Undertaker vs Randy Orton : Armageddon 2005_

I don't think there was any other feud destined to end up in the cell more so than this one. mean, 
these two were feuding for almost NINE months at this point, and the feud was stretched out with enough fantastic matches to keep me interested. On the first watch, I wasn't too fond of this match, as I believed it wasn't as intense as it needed to be. However, on a rewatch, I found that although it's not as intense and brutal as previous cell matches like HHH-Batista or HHH-Foley, this match bests those matches in pure psychology and callbacks to previous matches. The story here is similiar to the HHH-Batista feud; This is the last encounter between these two, so this is the end of the feud. However, this match has more heat than the Batista-HHH match, because whereas that match they were fighting over a championship, this match is based on pure hatred and deception between these two individuals. Undertaker's ring psychology is fantastic here, working the neck and chest of Orton, as we see a slower build here in the beginning which is reminiscent of their other 3 PPV matches.

The wrestling here is superb, but now we get into the more violent part of the match, as Undertaker 
hits Orton with an absolutely SICK chairshot across the face and begins raking Orton across the cell, busting him open in the process. Undertaker is absolutely destroying Orton here, but every time Undertaker takes advantage, Orton uses an act of desperation to get out of it. It's almost like the end for Orton is inevitable, and he knows it, but he is choosing to fight his destiny (maybe I'm reading way too much into this). Orton hits some huge chairshots as well as I retract my statement from earlier; this match is insanely violent. The bleeding levels aren't TOO bad, but some of these chairshots/stair shots/cell shots are just stiff and brutal. I love how Bob Orton gets what's coming to him in this match as well, as it coincides with the story that NOBODY gets away from the deadman. This is very back and forth, with Undertaker working the body of Orton and Orton selling it fairly good.

The ending of this match is pretty awesome, as Orton Tombstones Taker (6 years before HHH does it at mania) but Taker's all "fuck that" and Tombstones both Ortons, getting his revenge for all of the Ortons past transgressions and putting this awesome feud to rest. This match is pretty damn brutal, just not as brutal (nor does it have as much drama) as the HHH-Batista encounter. However, I believe that this match has more ring-psychology and better WRESTLING then the Vengeance match. The HHH mark in me says that the Vengeance one is better, and I do believe it's decisively better, but I think you can really go either way. A fantastic way to end 2005, with an all time classic.

***** 1/4*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

DesolationRow said:


> T
> 
> Also just finally saw Wrestlemania XXVIII on blu-ray and the End of an Era HIAC match is _so_ much better than I even thought it was. Glorious match. The storytelling, all of the nuances, you can actually capture many of them much more easily with a DVD in your living room on a leather couch than _at_ Wrestlemania, haha--but of course that atmosphere and overall experience is second-to-none.




End of an Era wore everyone in my section the hell out! When it was over we were just spent. The drama, the intensity, and emotion of that match I believe engulfed the entire stadium that night.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Clique said:


> End of an Era wore everyone in my section the hell out! When it was over we were just spent. The drama, the intensity, and emotion of that match I believe engulfed the entire stadium that night.


Oh, yeah. Same in my section. Crowd was exhausted after that and justifiably so. Whoever put the show together this year did it right, for the most part. The mini-reset following HIAC, seguing to the HOF inductees followed by a another little reset, then the backstage skit with Flo Rida and Heath Slater, and Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy... That was all like a giant unofficial intermission. All due respect to everyone in that match but they were a buffer on that night; the crowd needed time and space with which to recover after End of an Era. It took Punk's entrance and Jericho/Punk slow-building their match to a dramatic finish to get the crowd fully back, nearly an hour after End of an Era concluded!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My DVD's arrived:

Hart & Soul: The Hart Family Anthology DVD (3 Discs)
The Best of The King of the Ring DVD (3 Discs)
Money in the Bank 2011 DVD
The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event DVD (3 Discs)

Lucky i got MITB now as it's put up to £10.99 now, decided to slash out on the King Of The Ring Set, 

'Tis a shame the sale items, like the various sets, lack the inlay cards though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stupid WWE's decision to randomly remove them for a period of time.

Ordered my copy of the Ladder Match 2 Bluray. On sale today for £7.99 on SV.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Stupid WWE's decision to randomly remove them for a period of time.
> 
> Ordered my copy of the Ladder Match 2 Bluray. On sale today for £7.99 on SV.


Indeed, SV said on Twitter that it's because thier sale items, as the King Of The Ring Set i got at full price has the inlay card like, the Shawn Micheals: My Journey DVD i got has a french inlay card lol


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH Taker WM 27 > HHH/Taker WM 28 IMO. 

I like both matches, but to me, the WM 27 match saved WrestleMania, had a better finishing stretch, better action and less drama (I sorta felt the End of an Era drama was a little over the top). It also had better SPOTZ~ but who cares about that right? 

End of an Era was cool though. Must rent WM 28 and rewatch the entire event.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

My copy of money in the bank 2011 arrived yesterday, on the orton v christian match. Enjoyed the smackdown mitb more than the raw one on first viewing. 

Will be getting the ladder match 2 blu ray at some point today, looks pretty impressive.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.














Clique said:


> End of an Era wore everyone in my section the hell out! When it was over we were just spent. The drama, the intensity, and emotion of that match I believe engulfed the entire stadium that night.


I remember literally just sitting there being unable to move after that match lol. I have videos and when they disappeared to the back all you can hear is me repeatedly saying, "Wow! Wow! Wow! I can't...Wow!" lol. Then I fall into my seat and the video stops, haha. I tried so hard to be into Jericho/Punk but I just didn't have it in me at the time. I truthfully thought the match sucked until I watched it on TV lol. It was much better the second time round. As for the end of an era, well, that thing will forever be a truly special match to me in every sense of the word. 3 of the best doing their thing and taking us all along for the ride.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker*
*World Heavyweight Championship Match
No Way Out 2006*










*“Undertaker, when that bell rings … I don’t have a soul either.”*


Kurt Angle, World Heavyweight Champion, is as intense and focused on retaining his gold like never before. He is a wrestling machine.

Undertaker’s entrance is extra special on this night because they built more anticipation between each gong before his awe inspiring arrival. No one conveys such a spellbinding aura. He is the Phenom.

Angle has called Taker one of the greatest wrestlers alive in a No Way Out DVD exclusive interview. On the Tombstone DVD Kurt also stated Taker is the greatest WWE superstar ever based on him having the total package which consists of the best gimmick ever, being so athletic for his size, charisma, wrestling ability, and being the most respected man in the locker room. 

We know how Angle feels about Taker and we know how competitive he is also. Kurt is a true competitor by nature and he NEEDS to beat the greatest. In his mind he NEEDS to BE the best – always. 

This main event has that big fight feel. 

From the beginning of the contest we see their contrast of styles with Angle hooking Taker in a waist lock trying to take the near 7-footer off of his feet. Taker strikes back at Angle with a swift, swinging back fist just to make Kurt rethink his attack. I love how this match already feels more like an authentic fight. 

I also liked how Tazz and Michael Cole on commentary pointed out the differences in their fighting styles. Taker is the best pure striker in the game and Angle is the best pure wrestler in the game. Cole stated quite a few times that Angle and Taker never tapped out in their careers which isn't true but it does make this heavily submission based match sound more impressive. 

Here we have two of the best workers ever wrestling for the top prize and that is impressive enough for me. Along with each man’s strengths they bring an extra weapon: Taker uses his strikes and power to his advantage but he also has lethal submission holds that can be applied at any time. Angle uses his wrestling, a variety of counter holds, and takedowns to perfection but he also brings his undeniable aggressiveness in the form of some stiff uppercuts.

Both men’s psychology is exceptional in this match. Taker extensively works over Angle’s shoulder/arm to set him up for the old school attack which would inflict the most damage possible. Angle eventually turns the match in his favor in the classic big man vs. smaller man psychology of wrestling as he dissected The Deadman’s knee/leg (Taker legitimately has bad knees too). 

Angle uses the chop blocks, kicks to the knee, toe hold (pressure to knee) leg grapevine, and the figure four leg lock around the ring post! Kurt even modifies the ankle lock so that Taker’s knee is bent and twisted in a horribly painful looking position. 

Angle takes the fight to Taker and he has never looked this dominate as a World Champion. The situation where Kurt gives Taker the Angle Slam through the announce table and refuses to accept a B.S. count out victory is just brilliant storytelling. As I mentioned earlier, Angle wants to BEAT the best to prove that he IS the best. Angle is determined to win by pin fall or preferably a tap out.

Angle and Taker go home to the final stretch of the match in a big way with a plethora of ankle lock counters, German suplexes, Chokeslams, and Angle Slams. My two favorite counter moments are the three consecutive Tombstone reversals and the ankle lock reversal from the Triangle Choke. It looked like Taker would indeed tap out when Angle finally grapevined his leg with the ankle lock in the middle of the ring. However, Taker's legs are so long he kicked his way out of the hold! Taker eventually locks in the deadly Triangle Choke again! This action, this _wrestling_ is so compelling.










The finish left both men looking strong. The competition was so intense between these two legendary performers. I bought the pin fall/submission finish. I wouldn't say it wasn't controversial or left the fans without a decisive victor but clearly both men got the best of the other. I think that is an excellent way to complete the story of how evenly matched these two competitors are. Taker choked Angle out but the Olympic Gold Medalist used his instinctive wrestling ability to win the match – incredible!

Ever since this classic happened, in my opinion, Undertaker has been the best big match worker in the world and he has delivered the best matches every year. This is an enduring wrestling main event that maintains its excitement especially in the finishing stretch. Undertaker and Kurt Angle have seemingly effortless chemistry together. Every match they have had together from 2002-2006 have been marvels to watch. 

I hold this match at the very top of their performances together and one of the best in both men’s careers. It is an exhilarating 30 minutes of believable storytelling, apt psychology, and counter wrestling in abundance.

***** 3/4*​


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Ordered my copy of the Ladder Match 2 Bluray. On sale today for £7.99 on SV.


Me too


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I hate this thread, everyday i add another 'DVD to get' to my list  Big Undertaker mark here so looks like ill have get NWO '06 at some point too...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> I hate this thread, everyday i add another 'DVD to get' to my list  Big Undertaker mark here so looks like ill have get NWO '06 at some point too...


Its only £4.99 on SV right now . Worth it for Undertaker/Angle alone, but Rey/Orton is incredible too (my favourite match between them, ahead of the SD match a couple of weeks after WM).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Its only £4.99 on SV right now . Worth it for Undertaker/Angle alone, but Rey/Orton is incredible too (my favourite match between them, ahead of the SD match a couple of weeks after WM).


Nice one mate, thanks, saw Backlash 2007 for the same price too and that seems highly rated too...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash has the two awesome main events, and a solid undercard too. Worth getting as well lol. Shame that almost all of the sale items on SV right now that I would want I already have .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Backlash has the two awesome main events, and a solid undercard too. Worth getting as well lol. Shame that almost all of the sale items on SV right now that I would want I already have .


(Y) Thanks again, i stopped watching wrestling pretty much between 2005-10 apart from a couple of mania so alot i havn't seen


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

Just finished money in the bank, great ppv. Cena/Punk was awesome, great crowd and loved Vince's last gasp efforts at the end of the match. Is it worth getting Summerslam '11 to see the next installment between these two?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes. Match at SS is awesome as well, plus Bryan/Barrett is really good and Henry/Sheamus is a fun match between two sluggers.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

Think i'll make the ladder match 2 along with Summerslam '11 my next orders.

Watched the bret/hbk interview from the greatest rivalries blu ray the other night, will begin watching the matches tonight.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

And Orton/Christian.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> And Orton/Christian.


How the fuck did I forget this match? Might like it more than Punk/Cena from the same show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lennon_ said:


> Think i'll make the ladder match 2 along with Summerslam '11 my next orders.
> 
> Watched the bret/hbk interview from the *greatest rivalries* blu ray the other night, will begin watching the matches tonight.


Anyone know if the Survivor Series match has the complete aftermath (WCW sign, Bret going nuts)? I only have the DVD version and that match is a Blu-Ray exclusive


----------



## Crossface (Sep 22, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I think its overrated in the sense that its often referred to as one of the best tag matches ever and the best tv match ever. Don't think its even close to being either.


It is the best match in company history, tbf.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not even remotely close .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton/Christian OTL 11 is fucking awesome. Love that match.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

All Christian/Orton matches from that year are great , just a shame there only ever seemed to be one winner lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I loved their Summerslam match too. The RKO on to the steps was awesome lol. I'll have to give that one a re-watch at some stage.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I just ordered Starrcade dvd. Any thoughts on it?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Anyone know if the Survivor Series match has the complete aftermath (WCW sign, Bret going nuts)? I only have the DVD version and that match is a Blu-Ray exclusive


No it doesn't.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Just looking at Silvervision now and the Main events of both No Mercy 2002 and Amageddon 2002 interest me but its been a long long time since ive seen the whole PPV and am really only going to buy them for the main event really. So just wanted to ask if either the Hell in a Cell between Brock and Taker and the 3 Stages of Hell between HBK and HHH are on any other sets including wrestler collections?

I know the HIAC is on the HIAC collection but i remember reading somwhere its badly editied to make the match appear less brutal? Any truth in that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shaun_27 said:


> Just looking at Silvervision now and the Main events of both No Mercy 2002 and Amageddon 2002 interest me but its been a long long time since ive seen the whole PPV and am really only going to buy them for the main event really. So just wanted to ask if either the Hell in a Cell between Brock and Taker and the 3 Stages of Hell between HBK and HHH are on any other sets including wrestler collections?
> 
> I know the HIAC is on the HIAC collection but i remember reading somwhere its badly editied to make the match appear less brutal? Any truth in that?


The HIAC is also on Undertaker's Tombstone DVD, which imo is the best release WWE have done except for Flair's Ultimate Collection. That being said, No Mercy 02 also has the epic tag title match.

3 Stages of Hell between HBK/HHH is awful, not worth going out of your way to find at all.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

KingCal said:


> The HIAC is also on Undertaker's Tombstone DVD, which imo is the best release WWE have done except for Flair's Ultimate Collection. That being said, No Mercy 02 also has the epic tag title match.
> 
> 3 Stages of Hell between HBK/HHH is awful, not worth going out of your way to find at all.


Thanks. Might very well pick up the Taker collection. For 2 quid more it looks the far better DVD. Havnt seen HBK/HHH for ages and honestly cant remember it that much at all apart from the 4 table spot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All matches on the HIAC DVD are unedited. If you don't own a fair share of matches that are on the set, I believe it is one of the must-buy WWE DVDs. However, I also feel that way about Tombstone: THOTU , so it basically comes down the personal preference.

Really, the Hell in a Cell DVD is a Triple H/Undertaker DVD , as 13 out of 14 matches feature one of the two. The DVD features quite a few all-time classics as well.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

There are edits in HBK/HHH and Taker/Orton on the HIAC DVD. Nothing too noticeable, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> ^
> I actually liked it just the same the last time I watched it a few weeks ago. Great match.
> 
> 
> ...


I've yet to see that Rock/Trips strap match because when I was 7 and me and my dad ordered the PPV it cut out to a porno with an hour left. :argh:

Backlash 2007

Murdoch/Cade vs Hardyz - ***1/2
Melina vs Mickie James - ***
MVP vs Chris Benoit - ***1/4
Umaga/Vince/Shane vs Lashley - ***
Batista vs Undertaker - ****1/4
Edge vs Orton vs HBK vs Cena - ****1/2

Fucking love this show.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Re watched Benoit v HHH v Michaels from Mania XX today, still as good as I remembered it being and for me a ***** match

Told a great story and had three different styles that meshed really well, loved every part of this match from Benoit not taking his eyes off Michaels as he made his entrance all the way to the celebration with Eddie at the end of the match (still my favourite WM moment of all time)

My Hell in a Cell DVD set came today so looking forward to sitting down and watching that over the next few days


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XIV
*
_Degeneration X vs The Mcmahons & The Big Show : Unforgiven 06_

First (and only) Handicap Hell in a Cell here to blow off the feud between DX and the Mcmahons. Big Show had to be thrown in to add some drama to this, because let's face it, DX vs the Mcmahons in a Cell would have just been one long squash. Instead we are treated to a pretty brutal match here with a good story to go along with it. Big Show is an unstoppable monster at this point in his career (the ECW Champion at this point) and is destroying everyone in his path, so what does DX do as soon as the bell rings ? They both low blow him and head straight for the Mcmahons, beautiful strategy there. DX begins to destroy the Mcmahons and then Show comes back and begins to dominate DX as we have our pattern for this match: DX dominates, then Show comes back into the equation and dominates, then DX gets rid of Show. If you repeat that cycle a few times then you basically have the structure of this match down to a tee, and that's not really a bad thing.

Say what you want about Vince and Shane, but they sell like nobody else, being destroyed all around 
the Cell by DX. Big Show's presence is awesome in this, as it gives Triple H and Shawn Michaels a 
reason to be thrown all around the cell and bump like crazy (basically, what they've been doing in 
previous cell matches before this one). I love the dynamic that DX can't really BEAT Big Show, they can only contain him and then move on to the Mcmahons as it makes the match more credible.Everybody in the match blades, and then the Mcmahons take offense for a few minutes and proceed to pick DX apart. This is a really dragging portion of the match, but it needed to be done to add drama (plus we got a pretty sick Shane Mcmahon Van-Terminator, so I'm not complaining). Obviously DX comes back, and for the first time we get a comedy spot inside the Cell, with Vince's head being shoved up Big Show's ass (I'm dead serious, Vince must really love the fans). I don't really like that in this match due to it being HELL in a CELL, but oh well. Pretty good match here, I don't think we needed that comedy spot in this one but this match was probably as good as it could get. Dosen't touch the classic cell matches, but a great watch nonetheless, and extremely entertaining

**** 1/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.




Anyway, ratings from a few matches I saw in the last pages I missed:

Jericho/HHH JD: ***1/2
Taker/Brock HIAC: ****3/4
Nash/HHH HIAC: **1/2
HBK/HHH HIAC: ***1/4
Batista/HHH HIAC: ****1/2
Taker/Orton HIAC: ****1/4
DX vs. McMahons and Show: **3/4

Undertaker/Angle NWO06: *****
Orton/Christian OTL: ****1/2
Benoit/HBK/HHH: ****1/2
Edge/Orton/HBK/Cena BL07: ****1/4

Nash/HHH cell has all the problems of Jericho/HHH HIAC, plus a much more lousy work rate to it, and extremely bland. HBK/HHH suffers a lot from the fact I don't think that the workrate was that great, especially for those two, and the fact that it goes on forever really hurts my enjoyment of the match. Batista/HHH HIAC is possibly Batista's best match of his career (the only one I think competes with it is Taker/Batista WM23), but this match was what ultimately put Batista over as the big thing. DX/McMahons+Show was as good as it was going to get tbh. It's a fun match. Taker/Brock HIAC is so fucking brutal... Taker wearing a crimson mask, and I'm not sure when else that's happened. Ultimately put over Lesnar as the man similar to how Batista's cell match with HHH put him over as the man. Taker/Orton was a fantastic match as well.

Taker/Angle went to 5 stars when I adopted my new ratings system. Just a beautiful match with a fantastic ending that put over Angle as a great fighting champion, while Taker still saved face. I also for the record put Taker/Angle SD03 at 5 stars after using my new ratings system. Taker and Angle have some of the best chemistry ever tbh. Orton/Christian is a clinic and the two delivered second best MOTY for 2011 for me, right behind Punk/Cena MITB. There Summerslam match is almost as good. Benoit/HBK/HHH is imo the best triple threat match of all time, and one of the best WM main events of all time. Actually I don't think there's been a better WM main event since, and the only one I'd put above it off the top of my head is Rock/Austin WM17. And Edge/Orton/HBK/Cena is the best fatal four way of all time as well off the top of my head.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That HIAC is one of the few matches where someone works over the ear. At least that I've seen.

I think it's a fun watch with some brutal spots but by no means a top one.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Obis said:


> Undertaker/Angle NWO06: *****


(Y)

Was thinking about going the full five but settled with where I've had it for years now. Absolute classic wrestling match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Crossface said:


> It is the best match in company history, tbf.


WAT enguin


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XV*

_The Undertaker vs Batista : Survivor Series 07_

Here we see the last HIAC before the PG era, and before the WM XXVIII End of an Era match, a match that many people claim to be the last true "war" inside the HIAC. This is another one of those back and forth matches that feature lots of brutality, with a simple story: Who is the better man of the two ? This was made to be the last match in these two's amazing series of matches it 2007. I have a somewhat problem with this match however; These two never really hated one another. Their feud was based off of respect and NOT hatred, so why have this be a cell match ? Oh well, I love how Taker switches things up in every single cell match and never letting himself become too predictable. Some of these spots are very intense, such as a gullotine chair shot that leaves Batista with blood running from his mouth. I like the dynamic that they're trying to play up here, explaining that although Batista has the size/power/speed advantage, Undertaker has more experience and thus is even more dangerous inside the cell.

This is very fast paced for a cell match, as both of these guys probably have the fastest paced big men matches that I've ever seen, all while keeping the psychology of their matches coherent. This such a back and forth war ala Lesnar/Taker or Batista/HHH, with both men hitting impact moves (specifically Undertaker). We get an absolutely EXCELLENT nearfall here when Batista kicks out of the tombstone, making him the first person I do believe to kick out of all 3 finishers (definitely something special to add to the match). The psychology here is okay, because nobody is really working a body part, these guys are just destroying each other and trying to get the three count, which is okay.

There are a few things I don't like about this match. First of all, Taker gets a triangle choke at one point, and Batista gets a rope break...How does that even make sense ? And secondly, Batista takes the time to go outside the ring deep into the match, get a table, and proceed to powerbomb Undertaker through it. My question is, why go through all that effort ? If Taker is that spent, just Batista Bomb him normally. These two have ridiculous chemistry together, and although some aren't a fan of the ending, I love that while they end this story arc, it also begins another Taker story arc that wouldn't end until the next cell match. I may have my complaints, but this was a war and a damn near classic. Still not the best Batista-Undertaker match (the 3rd/4th best IMO) which just says alot about their series.

******

That's the last match in the HIAC set. First, I'm gonna put all my reviews for this set together and write up what I think (There's two matches on the set that I thought I gave too high of a rating to, so I went back and watched certain parts of them AGAIN to verify my ratings), then I'm gonna watch all of the PG-Cell matches (already have Edge-Taker reviewed, gonna post it later).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Batista HIAC: ****1/4... I'd say the third best Taker/Batista match (behind Mania and Cyber Sunday). It was hard hitting like their previous matches, but with a cell to use and weapons and stuff. I still remember being in shock when Batista kicked out of the tombstone. While the last few years HBK and HHH have kicked out of at least one tombstone, this was the first time someone had kicked out of Taker's tombstone in forever... since Kane at WM14 I think.

But yeah, not their best match, not Taker's best cell match, not Batista's best cell match (lol, he only had two), but still an awesome match.

And for Taker/Edge... ****3/4. I know there's a couple out there who have it at ***** (or did anyway), but besides that I think I have it at the highest of anyone on here (usually see between ****1/4-****1/2 for it). The workrate was good but what was amazing was the storytelling, psychology, spots, and even with a lack of blood brutality of the match. Perfect way to cap off the feud by having Taker get revenge on Edge for everything he did. Overall a classic match, and a great end to a great feud.

The rest of the PG Cell matches don't compare. Taker/HHH is the only other one to break the **** barrier.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

PG HIACs

Edge/Taker - **** 1/2
Punk/Taker - *** 1/4
Cena/Orton - ** 
DX/Legacy - *** 1/4
Orton/Sheamus - *** 1/4
Kane/Taker - *
Henry/Orton - ***
Cena/Punk/Del Rio - ***
End of an Era - **** 3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell (3-Disc DVD)*

_Disc One_

The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels BB 97: *******
Steve Austin/Undertaker vs Mankind/Kane Raw 98: *N/A*
The Undertaker vs Mankind KOTR 98: ***** 1/4*
Mankind vs Kane Raw 98: *** 1/2*
Triple H vs Cactus Jack NWO 00: ***** 1/2*
Armageddon HIAC: ******

_Disc Two_

Triple H vs Chris Jericho JD 02: **** 3/4*
The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar NM 02: ***** 3/4*
Triple H vs Kevin Nash BB 03: **** 1/2*
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels BB 04: ******

_Disc Three_

Triple H vs Batista VEN 05: ***** 3/4*
The Undertaker vs Randy Orton ARM 05: ***** 1/4*
DX vs The McMahons/Big Show UNF 06: **** 1/4*
The Undertaker vs Batista SS 07: ******

_Thoughts_

9 out of these 14 matches are ****+. That should tell you basically everything you need to know about this set. This set is a MUST HAVE for anybody who is fed up with the current blood free PG product (I'm not, I'm just making a point here), or for anybody who appreciates war like matches, or matches with amazing structures and fantastic storytelling. TWELVE out of these fourteen matches (the other two being short Raw matches) are *** 1/4 and higher, GREAT quality here. If you're a fan of The Undertaker or HHH, you have to go get this DVD as well, as every single match on the set (Minus about one little 8 minute segment) features one of these two performers. Every single disc has a **** 3/4+ match on it as well.

This is the kind of DVD that takes a week to watch, and that's a great thing, because some of these matches are so emotionally investing that once the match is over, you're spent and you need to take a break from watching it. All three discs are absolute quality, and to be honest, this DVD is so good that it literally WEARS YOU DOWN at times. I'll go out on a limb and proclaim this to be the greatest gimmick match DVD of all time, bar none. Some people may love the ladder match DVD, but let me ask you this; Does the ladder match DVD feature the greatest match (IMO anyways) of all time ? I didn't think so.

If you're a casual fan or a hardcore collector, this NEEDS to be in your collection, as it is not only the best gimmick match DVD for the greatest gimmick match of them all, but it is one of the greatest match comps that the WWE has ever produced. This is the kind of DVD that will make you appreciate the storytelling and pacing of individuals like HHH and Taker, as well as give you a newfound respect for those who take major bumps inside and outside the cell to entertain the audience. I'm not looking too much into this, but for now I'll go out and say this is one of the greatest sets EVER, a top 10 set for sure. BUY IT. 

*9.5/10*

Now to move on to the PG cells (and perhaps the Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen DVD if I need to take a break amongst all these cell matches, but they WILL BE DONE damnit!) .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

PG HIACs (off the top of my head)

Edge/Taker - ****3/4
Punk/Taker - **1/2
Cena/Orton - ***1/2
DX/Legacy - ***1/4
Orton/Sheamus - ***1/4
Kane/Taker - *
Henry/Orton - ***
Cena/Punk/Del Rio - ***1/4
End of an Era - ****

Orton's been pretty good inside the cell. Taker's PG cell matches outside of Edge and HHH were pretty bad.. His match against Punk is meh and his match against Kane is abysmal. DX/Legacy was good but I still feel the weakest match of the three between them. Cena/Punk/Del Rio was pretty cool and even though I wasn't fond of Del Rio winning the title, I like how it was executed in locking Cena out of the cell and then taking advantage of a weakened Punk.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm one of the few that really dug Taker/Punk HIAC. I know they made the match short because Taker was hurt but I liked the fast pace and the counters they did in that match including the finish.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XVI*

_The Undertaker vs Edge : Summerslam 2008_

This is a story of redemption. After everything that Edge has put Undertaker through over the last year, after all the cheating victories, after all the interference and questionable tactics, after all the hell that Undertaker has been put through, THIS is what it all comes to. There is no intereference for Edge to hide behind, and there is no way out, so how does Edge look heading into this matchup ? Like a deranged lunatic, ready to take on whatever the Undertaker throws at him. That's because Edge has a brilliant plan that unfolds during this match: He turns it into basically a TLC match insde the cell. That's right, for the first half of this match Edge is on the offensive, even though he was never in a cell match before. I love that dynamic in this match, as it isn't the Undertaker who pulls Edge into his environment, it's Edge who takes the Undertaker's home and turns it into his own kind of match, using Tables, ladders and chair as his primary weapons for the majority of the match. 

There are some excellent spots in this match, such as Taker taking a SWEET spear through the side of the cell AND spears him through the announcers table. Taker's facial expressions and body language are top notch here, showing exactly why even in 2008 he should be the top dog and the bonafide main eventer that he is. This is one of the best performances (maybe THE best) that I've ever seen from Edge, as his offense is very methodical in this one, and whenever The Undertaker manages to get some offense, he goes right back into chickenshit heel mode, and I absolutely LOVE that about this match. Undertaker and Edge apparently turn into Rock and Austin as they begin hitting signature moves on one another (or atleast attempting them), as Edge attempts an old school but gets put through a stack of tables (in a NON obvious spot unlike the ONS match), and Undertaker actually hits a SICK spear for revenge on Edge.

Edge is just reversing the Tombstone over and over again. This match has three great elements to it; The storytelling is amazing, the pace is great, and the moves are tremendous. My favourite part of this match, however has to be the ending. We see Undertaker copying the exact same sequence of moves that Edge executed on him in the Survivor Series Cell against Batista. That puts the cherry on top for this series of matches, as the story has finally come full circle. This is probably the best match of 2008, just another fantastic Cell to add to Undertaker's resume.

***** 1/2*


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Edge/Taker HIAC *****1/2*
End of an Era *****1/2*

Couldn't care less about the rest of the PG HIACs


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Edge/Taker - **** 1/2
Punk/Taker - ***
Cena/Orton - 1/4* (Almost a DUD)
DX/Legacy - *** 3/4
Cena/Punk/Del Rio - *** 1/2
End of an Era - **** 

PG HIAC's I've seen.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

PG HIACs

Edge/Taker - ****1/2
Punk/Taker - ***
Cena/Orton - **
Legacy/DX - ***1/2
Orton/Sheamus - ***1/4
Kane/Taker - DUD
Del Rio/Punk/Cena - ***
Orton/Henry - ***
Taker/Trips - ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XVII*

_The Undertaker vs CM Punk : HIAC 2009_

This match isn't very long at all, especially for a cell match, but what we get here is a short, very well paced match between two great workers. I mean, for the entire 10 minutes that this match lasts, these two are just going at it with one another. Undertaker is hurt here, so CM Punk does practically all the bumping off of the cell and around the ring, which is the right idea here as Punk is the smaller man anyways. Undertaker contributes to this match in his own way, and that is his selling. I mean, Punk works Takers left knee to absolute perfection, and every move that Undertaker executes afterwards, all the way down to the way he walks, he sells the left knee injury. A specific example of this is when The Undertaker attempts old school, but he has to use the turnbuckle as support because his leg is too bad. The younger talent in the back who need a lesson on selling can look at Undertaker's performance in this and learn something.

No matter what Taker is doing, he's milking the knee/leg injury, as his facial expressions are 
absolutely perfect. That is wrestling psychology 101, something we don't see in every match. We get 
some great counters in this one, especially the running knee into the last ride that had me marking the fuck out. We get some good nears falls, the crowd is hot (especially for 2009), and then it suddenly ends with the Tombstone and I'm pissed. This had the potential to be a ****-**** 1/2 match with more time, but with Undertaker being injured and with what these two gave us, this match is fantastic. One of the better 10 minute matches I've ever seen, that's for sure. They actually use the cell, there's fluid psychology, there's an awesome pace, and it gets violent at some points (see the Punk chairshot to Taker's head). I never would have imagined Taker working an under 10 minute semi sprint in 2009, but there we have it. Maybe I love this match way more than most people, but I think this is a fantastic job by two of the best in the business.

**** 1/2*


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/Punk HIAC was actually pretty good,it was fast and the crowd was hot.The only problem is the match was short
but like what *K1ngOfK1ngs * said it was one of the best 10 minute matches i have ever seen.

Taker/Rey from SD 2010 is another very good 10 minute match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got the Batista: I Walk Alone DVD set? Was thinking about ordering that or the Wrestling's Highest Flyers DVD set...


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

PG HIACs

Taker/Edge - ****1/4
Punk/Taker - ***1/4
Cena/Orton - ***1/4
DX/Legacy - ***3/4
Orton/Sheamus - ****
Kane/Taker - *1/2
Henry/Orton - ***1/4
Cena/Del Rio/Punk - ***1/2
Taker/HHH - ****1/2


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Hell in a Cell - Shawn Michaels v Undertaker - *****

What a great match, something I really liked was the lack of pin attempts, it really added to the psycology of the match and both guys played their parts perfectly, Michaels selling was brilliant and the debut of Kane just made the match absolutely perfect for me.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Taker/Edge - ****1/4
Punk/Taker - ***1/2
Cena/Orton - ***1/2
DX/Legacy - ****
Orton/Sheamus - **1/4 (Hated this match)
Kane/Taker - **1/2
Henry/Orton - ***1/4
Cena/Del Rio/Punk - ***1/2
Taker/HHH - ****3/4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Taker/Edge - ****1/4
Punk/Taker - ***1/2
Cena/Orton - **1/2
DX/Legacy - ***3/4
Orton/Sheamus - ***
Kane/Taker - **
Henry/Orton - ***1/4
Cena/Del Rio/Punk - ***1/2
Taker/HHH - ****3/4


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Undertaker vs HHH vs Big Show vs Kozlov (Smackdown 2009) - ***1/2

Awesome TV match..the weird thing the match ended by disqualifications after Edge speard Big Show,i thought﻿ there is no disqualifications in a fatal 4 way.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Has anyone got the Batista: I Walk Alone DVD set? Was thinking about ordering that or the Wrestling's Highest Flyers DVD set...


I have the Batista set. Surprisingly fun to watch. Awesome documentary with enough information. And some of the matches are really entertaining and all I can say is I get a certain feeling when watching quality wrestling. I got that with this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I have the Batista set. Surprisingly fun to watch. Awesome documentary with enough information. And some of the matches are really entertaining and all I can say is I get a certain feeling when watching quality wrestling. I got that with this.


Thanks for that mate (Y) There are a couple of Undertaker matches on it, amongst other matches of course, that i want so think ill het that one first.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XVIII*

_John Cena vs Randy Orton : HIAC 2009_

This is the first cell in 11 years that hasn't featured either Triple H or The Undertaker (for some reason that stat amazes me). This starts off very slow with some pretty bad striking here mainly by Orton, as we move to the outside. No real reason for this to be in a cell as the feud wasn't THAT intense, but this is 2009 and the calendar decides the match stipulation and not the context of the feud, which takes away from this match. The cell is used 3-4 times and we move back in the ring and that's literally the ONLY time that these two use the cell in this match. That's completely unacceptable for this type of match. Pretty slow build here which I usually like, but this isn't building to anything more intense or violent, so I'm pretty bored and dumbfounded by this point. They're really trying to play Orton up as this sadistic character, but the problem is simple: HE ISN'T DOING ANYTHING SADISTIC. Sure he attempts a DDT on the steps, it's been done plenty of times before, what makes Orton so special? Two weapons are used in this match (a chair and the steps), but they're used much too sparringly for a cell match.

This match is severly lacking brutality at this point. This match actually does get quite good once we get to the whole "finisher attempt" portion of the match, and these two take turns reversing each other's finishers. What makes this match good however, are the three false finishes we get towards the end of the match. I was buying Cena winning twice, and Orton once before the actual ending to the match took place, and I thought it added excitement to an otheriwse badly paced match. The ending is actually pretty cool, but definitely not for a cell match. I think if this had to be a normal match, this would have been *** easy. The technical aspects of this match are fine, and it gets pretty damn entertaining at some points, but the lack of intensity/brutality in the cell is just unforgiveable, plus the slow build to absolutely NOTHING dosen't work with me much either. Not a bad match by any means (the last 5 minutes are pretty damn good IMO), but not something that's required viewing. Could have been so much more, but I was entertained enough while it lasted.

*** 3/4*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*zep81*, it depends on what you want out of your next DVD purchase. Do you want to watch Batista's story and his significant matches or do you want to see a variety of wrestlers in a compilation set like Highest Flyers? For the documentary I'd go with Batista vs. the brief highlights in the other set, but for matches I'd personally go with Highest Flyers set because I have Batista's best matches (minus Cyber Sunday '07) on DVD already.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XIX*

_Degeneration X vs Legacy : HIAC 2009_

This whole segment begins when Legacy ambushes DX during their entrance and we get a good brawl between the two teams. Eventually Legacy locks Triple H outside of the cell and we begin this match on a 2 on 1 situation. That's pretty much the story to this one: Shawn Michaels has a bad knee and he's locked in a cell with two hungry, young competitors looking to kill DX and make a statement. We get some brilliant leg work inside the cell by Legacy to Michaels, as Michaels resumes his normal position of bumping all around the cell. Once Triple H comes to and makes his way down to the cell, he realizes that he can't gain entry. I love the drama here, as Legacy is just DISMANTLING Shawn Michaels outside the ring right in front of Triple H, but there's absolutely nothing that he can do about it. Michaels makes enough comeback attempts to keep this one from being 100 percent Legacy on offense, but these comebacks are short lived and I think that's a good idea as I think they should wait for Triple H to get back in this one. Michaels does a great job of selling his injuries and the amount of wear he has taken in this match to the crowd, making Legacy look much more credible and dangerous than they were before. I'll actually go out on a limb and say that HBK has done more in Cody Rhodes's development than many others.

Eventually Triple H leaves, and they continue to beat down Shawn with chairs, even putting him in that Million dollar dream/figure four around the ringpost hybrid that they used at Breaking Point (sick looking move). We sort of know that Triple H is going to come back, but that isn't the point. The point is that it's great storytelling, as we're just waiting for DX to make their big come back, with everything else that happens before in the match being build up to the inevitable climax. Triple H comes back and breaks into the cell, leaving Cody alone in the cell and allowing DX to get their revenge, ending this feud once and for all. This match, while not high on workrate at all, and certainly not brutal for a Hell in a Cell match, tells a fantastic story. The cell, while not used very much as a weapon in the match, is used as a main focal point for the story that these four were trying to tell, and I think it worked. Not a classic by any means as this was essentially a squash one way or another for most of the match, but still a very good match with some good psychology. About as good as the other DX HIAC match.

**** 1/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> *zep81*, it depends on what you want out of your next DVD purchase. Do you want to watch Batista's story and his significant matches or do you want to see a variety of wrestlers in a compilation set like Highest Flyers? For the documentary I'd go with Batista vs. the brief highlights in the other set, but for matches I'd personally go with Highest Flyers set because I have Batista's best matches (minus Cyber Sunday '07) on DVD already.


Thanks for the advice mate, think ill splash out and get both whilst i can (Y)

Just realised the Angle VS Undertaker NWO 06 match is on the History of the World Heavyweight Championship DVD set that i have, didn't notice as i havn't got around to watching it yet,


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Just got Backlash 2002 off eBay for $26 and according to the seller's e-mail's it's in brand new condition.


Awesome.


----------



## The GOAT One (Sep 17, 2011)

A strange question for you guys...

I'm after a few more DVDs but only really interested in buying some ppv DVDs with good, loud, hot crowds....

I already own money in the bank 2011 and one night stand 2006

Any suggestions?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What do people think of the RAW: 15th Anniversary dvd, I may buy it. I have seen lot's of positives about it but it looks more about the moments than actual matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What do people think of the RAW: 15th Anniversary dvd, I may buy it. I have seen lot's of positives about it but it looks more about the moments than actual matches.


It kind of is, but a lot of the moments are really fun to watch. I go back to some segments on that set more than once a year. Not all of the matches are in full (they even clip them while they have commercial breaks), but what you get is good. Hart/1-2-3 Kid is probably the best Raw match ever and it isn't clipped on there.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I have the Batista set. Surprisingly fun to watch. Awesome documentary with enough information. And some of the matches are really entertaining and all I can say is I get a certain feeling when watching quality wrestling. I got that with this.


We never got enough cuts to Batista looking around in the streets of Detroit.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

TheGreatOne. said:


> A strange question for you guys...
> 
> I'm after a few more DVDs but only really interested in buying some ppv DVDs with good, loud, hot crowds....
> 
> ...


I'd say either Backlash or Judgment Day 2000.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XX*

_Randy Orton vs Sheamus_

Before I get into the actual match itself with what positive qualities and what negative qualities it has, just look at those two names. Do these two REALLY have a feud so heated that in needs to be in the cell ? That's my biggest criticism with these gimmick PPVs, the stipulation of the match doesn't match up to the feud very well. Blood we can do without, as you can have brutality without blood, but the Hell in a Cell in used to tell a deeper, more intense story, and can you REALLY do that with these two at this point in the feud ? If you rate this as a streetfight I believe it's *** 3/4 easily, as it has some good wrestling, some shades of brutality, sparring but creative use of weapons, some fantastic near falls, and last but certainly not least, good psychology. The first 10 minutes we get some good wrestling exchanges between these two, but we don't go outside and deal with the cell at all, so why even have the cell there in the first place ? It's only used a few times, as even the steel steps are used more as a weapon than the cell (Striker even brings this issue up on commentary). When we move into straight up FIGHT mode where all wrestling is thrown out the window, these two take the steps and do some very creative things with them, and I applaud them for that.

This isn't a steel steps match however, this is a HELL IN A CELL MATCH. I know that this isn't a issue for alot of people, but i feel that it's a detriment to the storytelling, which is the most crucial part of a match. The psychology in this one is rather great, as Sheamus has some dissecting offense to Orton's ribs, and all of Sheamus's offense/counters after Orton's midsection injury is actually TARGETED towards his midsection, and Orton sells it pretty damn good. After hitting a belly-to-belly side suplex Orton looks more hurt then Sheamus, which is the right idea considering his injury. We have two very excellent nearfalls where Orton kicks out of the Brogue kick, and a few moments where Orton could have won that kept this match very exciting to watch. It's a great match, don't get me wrong on that, it's just a bad CELL match, and that's the point. For a cell match, I'd give this **, but everything else in it is so crisp and smooth that I feel I have to make an exception this time.

*****


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

You know we say blood isn't absolutely necessary but damn it the color doesn't enhance the brutality and intensity of a match like Hell in a Cell. I think back to the best HIAC/Cage/War Games matches and most of those classic matches had blood in them. It was an extra element for dramatic effect that really works. However, what these bloodless HIAC matches need is a feud between two guys that have a lot of hatred built up and their storytelling should be strong enough to compensate for not having blood, thumbtacks, barbed wire, and bumps off the top of the cell. With these contrived gimmick PPVs every year we are not getting much of either.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Elimination Chambers have been able to survive without the blood but I completely agree on the HIACs. Things like Orton/Sheamus or Punk/Del Rio/Cena have no business being in a cell.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XXI*

_The Undertaker vs Kane_

Thirteen years after the first cell match and these two are STILL feuding, although the idea of Undertaker and Kane in the Cell sounds right. I don't think either of these guys were on their A game at all during their 2010 series (excluding NOC 2010), especially in this match, although there are times that these two do show flashes of what once was. This is already better than the first cell match of the night from the get go, as this match actually has heat on it and belongs in the cell, and the fact that it is more of a brawl on the outside of the ring instead of a wrestling match, which is extremely smart for these guys. I swear to god we actually get psychology in this match, as Kane just dominates Taker's left leg until Taker can barely stand or execute a move anymore. I mean, literally 50 percent of the match is Kane working on Undertaker's leg, and although it gets a little monotonous, I think it's good that these two are trying to use psychology to add another dimension to their storytelling.

The problems with this match are simple; The pacing is EXTREMELY slow, and it seems like both of these men are just not trying their hardest (botching a few moves, some sloppy ring work). To their credit however, this is a fairly entertaining match when the flashes of Undertaker of old start to come into play. The double big boot/double sit up is an awesome spot that gets the crowd involved in this match. It's crazy to think that even at such a slow pace, these guys are getting the crowd into this. Basically this match is Kane dominating Undertaker with Undertaker showing signs of his old self at times, but when the tide changes and Taker begins to dominate Kane, Paul Bearer turns on the Undertaker again (SHOCKER I know...) and takes away Taker's energy, allowing Kane to win the match. I hated the ending to the match as it was really cheesy, and besides the first few minutes we don't see alot of the cell, but this was entertaining for what it was. Kane even busts the back of his head open at one point, but it's never acknowledged. Decent match that would have been fine for a normal match, but not for a cell match at all.

*** 1/4*


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Is that Sheamus/Orton HIAC the match where Sheamus does the back breaker on the steps thatmakes no sense?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Is that Sheamus/Orton HIAC the match where Sheamus does the back breaker on the steps thatmakes no sense?


Yes. Striker tries to compensate for its lack of sense by saying that "The steps have no give, so all of the pressure goes directly into Orton's back" Even though that makes absolutely no sense.


*Hell in a Cell XXII*

_John Cena vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger vs Dolph Ziggler : Raw Dark Match 2011_

This was the only Hell in a Cell match that wasn't aired on television, and was only shown to the live audience. This is just a little 6 minute match here with the heels being in control for essentially the entire match, until the two faces make their inevitable comeback and a finisher fest ensues (which is always fun no matter what). Cena and Punk were already beaten down on Raw, so right from the get go the heels controlled this one. Not much to say but that the heels turned against one another and it led to an exciting finisher-fest finish (try saying that 3 times fast) and an obvious Cena win to send the live crowd home happy. Since this is an actual MATCH, I can pretty much rate it, but not much to see here. Watch if you wanna say you've seen all 25 cell matches. On a side note, both Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger can claim to be former world champions AND combatants in a HIAC (wtf).

** 1/2*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Yes. Striker tries to compensate for its lack of sense by saying that "The steps have no give, so all of the pressure goes directly into Orton's back" Even though that makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> 
> *Hell in a Cell XXII*
> ...


Didn't even know there was footage of that match.  Must be cool at least seeing Ziggler in a cell. :side:


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

Some ratings from my first viewing of MITB 2011:
Smackdown mitb - ****
Raw mitb - *** 3/4
Orton/Christian - *** 1/2
Cena/Punk - **** 1/2.

Great ppv, really enjoyed it and looking forward to watching Summerslam '11 to see the various rematches.

The Ladder Match 2 blu ray arrived today so will be watching that tonight.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell XXIII
*
_Randy Orton vs Mark Henry : HIAC 2011_

These two didn't have a heated enough feud that it warranted the Cell, but I believe that these two 
competitors painted a great story in there. We have Mark Henry, who has just been this unstoppable monster at this point (taking out the likes of Big Show, Kane, The Great Khali, beating down announcers) with all of these years of pent up frustration from not winning the world title, and he 
takes the face of Smackdown and just DESTROYS him and takes the title. Now we have Orton locked in a Cell with a monster who will just rip him to shreds once again. However, Henry has been susceptible to the RKO before, and Orton knows that if he hits it it could very well be over. So basically, the match works like this: Orton gets violently destroyed but gets in some offense every now in then in hopes of securing an RKO attempt. I mean, Henry just BRUTALIZES him (showing decent psychology by working the back and softening Orton for the world's strongest slam) all over the cell, using the cell semi effectively, and definitely more than other PG era cell matches (The cell was used for a world's strongest slam reversal as well).

Henry is in the prime of his career here during this monster heel run, and Orton does a wonderful job of selling to us that Henry IS the real deal and that (for lack of a better term) he isn't to be fucked with. The pace here is as good as it can get for two guys like Orton and Henry, but what makes this match so great is the superior storytelling coupled alongside a few FANTASTIC near falls. This match has one of the best near falls of 2011, when Henry kicks out of the RKO, because we've been building up all this time to Orton being able to take Henry out with the RKO, but when Henry kicks out Orton essentially resorts to the last move in his arsenal out of desperation (The Punt). This leads us to the ending, where Henry reverses a punt attempt into a WSM for the victory. This match exceeded my expecations, and although they don't use the cell too much, they still use it a fair bit. This is still the second best match between these guys, but great stuff.

**** 1/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gonna group these last 2 together in fear of triple-posting....

*Hell in a Cell XXIV*

_John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio vs CM Punk : HIAC 2011_

So I'm not quite sure why this is in the Cell either, I mean could you imagine if this had to be the fourth and final blowoff match between Punk and Cena to determine who is the best in the world ? Now THAT would have been exciting, but why add Del Rio ? Anyways the word best used to describe this match would be excitement, as the most intruiging part of this match is the fast pace, and how quickly these guys stay executing moves. This was like a 25 minute sprint that just happened to be in the cell, not a whole lot of Cell usage (besides the ending when Cena gets locked out, which is really only psychological use and not physical) here but when they do decide to use the cell it's effective (you can tell that just by looking at CM Punk's back. Whenever you have Cena and Punk in the same ring, something special's bound to happen, and this match is definitely no exception to that, as these guys are golden with the many counters and fast paced action that take place between them, with Del Rio being the foil to all of this.

The most crucial part of this match however, are the amount of near falls and close calls that take 
place. All 3 men get their finishers in some way, shape or form, and could have easily won the match. All 3 men do a great job of selling the pinfall and making sure they kick out at just the FINAL split second before the 3 count to add more drama into the match. Punk is the bonafide spot monkey in this match, going through a table on the outside and bouncing around off the cell until is back is legit bleeding. Cena ends up getting locked out, which leads to Punk getting pinned semi-clean (well, completely clean actually) for the second PPV in a row, which kind of made me sick but whatever. his match certainly had it's violence and brutality, but it's true value lies in the workrate that they were able to execute. Still, would have been better off as a hardcore match (as this is HELL in a Cell, not workrate in a Cell), but the quality between these two men is simply to much to ignore, a near classic.

**** 3/4*

*Hell in a Cell XXV*

_The Undertaker vs Triple H w/ Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXVIII_

Ever since 2005 I had been clamoring for an Undertaker vs Triple H HIAC match, and once we reached the PG era, I was upset that I would never get to see my dream match come to fruition. So when this match was announced, I damn near almost lost my mind, and what we got for a match.....Was simply a work of art. This match will go down as the greatest piece of Wrestling storytelling and drama of this decade (and yes I know that it's only 2012), what can possibly top it ? This is the end of a story arc which began at WRESTLEMANIA 24 ! It's INSANE to have a story last that long in the modern WWE. From the entrances to the lowering of the cell, both of these men know they're going into a war.

I like how these two don't lock up, they just start firing away with strikes. That tells me that this isn't a traditional wrestling match. This match is absolutely brutal, as both men take beatings outside on the floor and off the cage. The match gets REALLY intense when a steel chair is incorporated in the match and Triple H begins to just get DESTROYED with it, as Undertaker is determined to avenge his moral loss from last years Mania. But, enough with the play-by-play, let's talk about the brutality. At the end of this match, Taker's back is so messed up from all the chairshots and stiff strikes that he looks like one big sliced up piece of meat. Triple H is slightly cut (not a blade job) which added another dimension to the match. 

The bread and butter in this match, however is the storytelling. Shawn Michaels does an amazing job of being the mediator that tries to keep things clean, but can't do it because he is so emotionally invested. This was an absolute WAR, one of the biggest wars in WWE history, which also included a moment where I legitimately believed that the streak was over (SCM into the Pedigree). What can I say about this match that hasn't already been said ? It's the closest thing to a piece of drama that the WWE has produced in a VERY long time. While I might prefer the WM 27 encounter SLIGHTLY, this match had a perfect blend of story and brutality. A must watch for any wrestling fan, and the clear cut MOTN (and honestly, unless there's a ***** match this year, this isn't being topped all year)

***** 3/4*

That's all Twenty-Five. Look for my full rankings as well as some analysis soon


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks *K1ngOfK1ngs* for the great reviews .


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

2011 HIAC should've been Punk vs. Triple H, so that Punk could get his win back. I mean it was right there. RIGHT FUCKING THERE

As for MOTY so far, Brock/Cena easy imo.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

MOTY is End of an Era match for me. And, the only event/match/show I've watched all year is WrestleMania.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Well you can't really have an opinion then if you've only watched the one PPV from 2012.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Razor King said:


> MOTY is End of an Era match for me. And, the only event/match/show I've watched all year is WrestleMania.


Watch Brock/Cena immediately. Seriously wouldn't mind going five stars on that. Also add Sheamus/Bryan and Bryan/Punk to that list.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Catching up on 2012, haven't watched anything really..

*Royal Rumble 2012*

Bryan vs Show vs Henry: ***
Divas: DUD
Cena/Kane: * 1/2
Clay/McIntyre: 1/2 *
Punk/Ziggler: *** 1/2
Royal Rumble: ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell: Ranking all 25*

_The "Shit" Tier_
25. The Undertaker vs Big Bossman WM XV : *DUD*

_The "Kind of unrateable" tier_
24. The Undertaker/Steve Austin vs Mankind/Kane Raw 98 : *N/A*
23. John Cena vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger vs Dolph Ziggler Raw(dark) 11 : ** 1/2*

_The "Decent" Tier_
22. The Undertaker vs Kane HIAC 10 : ***1/4*
21. Mankind vs Kane Raw 98 : *** 1/2*
20. Randy Orton vs John Cena HIAC 09 : *** 3/4*

_The "Great matches" tier_
19. Randy Orton vs Sheamus HIAC 10 : ****
*18. Degeneration X vs Legacy HIAC 09 : **** 1/4*
17. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry HIAC 11 : **** 1/4
*16. Degeneration X vs Big Show & The McMahons UNF 06 : **** 1/4*
15. The Undertaker vs CM Punk HIAC 09 : **** 1/2*
14. Triple H vs Kevin Nash BB 03 : **** 1/2*

_The "Near classic" Tier_
13. John Cena vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio HIAC 11 : **** 3/4*
12. Triple H vs Chris Jericho JD 02 : **** 3/4*
11. The Undertaker vs Batista SS 07 : ******
10. The Undertaker vs Triple H vs The Rock vs Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle vs Rikishi ARM 00 : ******
9. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels BB 04 : ******

_The "All time classic" tier_
8. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton ARM 05 : ***** 1/4*
7. The Undertaker vs Mankind KOTR 98 : ***** 1/4*
6. The Undertaker vs Edge SS 08 : ***** 1/2*
5. Triple H vs Cactus Jack NWO 00 : ***** 1/2*
4. The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar NM 02 : ***** 3/4*
3. Triple H vs Batista VEN 05 : ***** 3/4*
2. The Undertaker vs Triple H WM 28 : ***** 3/4*

_The "Greatest match of all time" Tier_
1. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels BB 97: *******

_Hell in a Cell MVP_ : The Undertaker

This was essentially a two man race between HHH and The Undertaker. Sorry Hunter, while you ARE the 
most consistent HIAC performer of all time (9 appearances, 3 great matches, 3 near classics, 3 all time classics), you still don't boast quite a HIAC resume like the deadman. Through 12 appearances, the Undertaker has wrestled in FIVE all time classics, two near classics, a great match, a decent match, and unrateable match. Oh wait, I must be forgetting something, as Undertaker has wrestled possibly the WORST MATCH OF HIS CAREER in the cell, which really dampens his resume, but I feel if Taker wrestled The greatest match of all time inside the cell, that should make up for the shitty Bossman match. This isn't really close unless you take out the best match on this list.

_Best Performance_ : Shawn Michaels at Bad Blood 1997

_Most Underrated Performance _: CM Punk at HIAC 09

_Best Bump_ : Foley falling through the cell at KOTR 1998

_Most Underrated Bump_ : Foley falls through announce table at Raw 98 vs Kane

_Most Underrated Match_ : Triple H vs Kevin Nash : Bad Blood 03

_Most Overrated Match_ : Armageddon HIAC (Great match, but Meltzer gave it **** 1/2!)

The Hell in a Cell match is the king of all gimmick matches. It has given us arguably the greatest 
match of all time (definitive IMO) , and SEVEN other all time classics out of just 25 matches. The 
percentages are astounding, as 80 percent of cell matches fall in the Great to All time classic tiers. There are alot of arguments about the PG Era cell matches and how good they can be due to the lack of blood and violence allowed. Out of the Nine PG Era cell matches, here are the statistics: 2 decent matches, 4 great matches, one near classic, and two all time classics. That's a nearly 80 percent chance that the match can be great, even on a PG level, so the amount of GREAT cell matches being produced are essentially the same, it's just we aren't producing the same amount of all time classics (although the 2nd greatest cell match of all time took place this year). I think it has to due with the lack of build and not necessarily the lack of blood. Look at the two all time classics in the PG era; Undertaker-Edge and Undertaker-HHH. Neither of these took place at the HIAC PPV, thus giving them time to develop, which the HIAC ppv does not allow.

My final answer is this: The PG era has NOT ruined the Hell in a Cell stipulation, as we get 
consistently great cell matches every year (and even a few amazing ones). However, the idea of basing a match around a gimmick and not allowing the Cell to fit the context and story of the feud really cripples some of these matches that could be ****+ easily. I hope you all enjoyed reading my reviews as much as I enjoy writing them and watching all of these matches (besides Taker-Bossman..Fuck that shit) in the first place. I'm going to take some time and just chill, review some random matches, Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen, Extreme Rules 2012, and whenever my History of the WHC and Ricky Steamboat DVDs get here I'll be sure to review them as well. Then, once the days of June pass on and on, I'm going to start reviewing every Elimination Chamber in history, and since I actually own them all and have reviewed almost half of them anyways, it should be easier. Thank you very much everybody.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Great reviews and ratings KingofKings


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Out of Backlash 2001 & Judgment Day 2001 which do you prefer. I think JD is the better overall card with better matches.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Michelle McCool vs. Melina- WWE Women's Championship
Night of Champions 2009*

-I liked the way they started the match here with McCool dropping Melina with the dropkick during her entrance, a nice if not logical move. Some strong back and forth from both girls and they both hit some good spots including the Barricade DDT. The finish was sudden if not pointless in what it intended to do that's really my only qualm about this match and even then it doesn't take away from it. In the end, this match lacked the psychology of their prior match from The Bash PPV but still in the end I came out enjoying this match more.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I just received it today and I've only watched the documentary, going to watch the matches tomorrow, but my god, the documentary for You Think You Know Me; The Story Of Edge, is fucking amazing. The best documentary for any superstar DVD, IMO. The match list doesn't look amazing but trust me, it's worth the purchase for the documentary alone. I was an Edge fan before I watched this, but by god I've became 5x the fan after I've watched it. It's a must see, IMO.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Watched HHH/Jericho from Fully Loaded 2000 for the first time last night, I can see why it's so loved I would go to ****3/4 on it. Would probably of gone the full 5 if HHH hadn't completely no sold the back after the Walls Of Jericho spot.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Word said:


> Well you can't really have an opinion then if you've only watched the one PPV from 2012.


You didn't just say that!




Hohenheim of Light said:


> Watch Brock/Cena immediately. Seriously wouldn't mind going five stars on that. Also add Sheamus/Bryan and Bryan/Punk to that list.


I've wanted to watch Brock/Cena ever since it happened. I'll watch those matches definitely. Sounds a whole lot of fun.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I just received it today and I've only watched the documentary, going to watch the matches tomorrow, but my god, the documentary for You Think You Know Me; The Story Of Edge, is fucking amazing. The best documentary for any superstar DVD, IMO. The match list doesn't look amazing but trust me, it's worth the purchase for the documentary alone. I was an Edge fan before I watched this, but by god I've became 5x the fan after I've watched it. It's a must see, IMO.


The biggest gripe people have with this set is the lack of exclusive or rare matches, as almost all of them have been released in some form on another DVD. While I would have preferred to have something like Edge and Ric Flair's TLC from RAW as opposed to the typical Edge/Eddie or Edge/Cena again, it's understandable considering the set is "The Story Of Edge". Hence, it has to include all of the landmark matches of his career. I'm not complaining though, they are all good matches and quite a few of them are my favourite.

The documentary is brilliant, I agree. They got all the right people to talk on it. There is also a bonus promo on the first disc which is really good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got the ladder match 2 Bluray this week from SV's wild wednesday sale. Mainly cos it has Miz/Lawler as an extra . Also has a bunch of TV matches which I like to see on sets as PPV matches are easy to get hold of on dvd and whatnot as it is. Anyways, watched Austin Vs Shane/Vince from KOTR because... well because it was on after Foley/Bossman (short, fun, nothing more. HBK on commentary rating Foley's spots was the best part) and Foley/Rock (meh). Anyways... fuck, where did this match come from? Its like, really good. Probably a top 5 match for the year in WWF (not saying much I know). Vince and Shane get the shit beaten out of them and its like, really good. Love the set with the ladders, Shane and Austin did a little bit on top of it but nothing much, would be great to see it again at MITB or TLC as they could do some really cool spots from it. Austin bringing the entire thing down on top of Vince and Shane was cool too. Nice of them to put E&C Vs Hardys from the first Raw on TNN in 2000 on the set. Definitely a hidden gem that I rediscovered while doing my WWF 2000 comps. Edge does the spear from the ladder to Jeff hanging from a belt spot, just not from such a big ladder. Got a HUGE reaction though, so that's probably why they decided to do it even bigger at WM 17.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Question about *SilverVision*, the European WWE DVD/BR seller:
Will they continue selling the new PPV's and Documentaries, because they don't have the 'coming soon' section anymore.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Nobody knows.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Candice Michelle vs. Beth Phoenix- WWE Women's Championship
Unforgiven 2007*

-I remember during this time when Phoenix was absolutely pwning the entire division in 2007, I also don't remember Beth being so small. I was arguably the biggest Candice Michelle mark imaginable back then :lol Both girls did a good job here, Candice played the underdog and sold Beth's offense very well bumping all over the place, the match got enough time which allowed them to tell a story. Beth controlled most of the match as expected with some great power moves and playing into the Big Girl vs. Little Girl dynamic. The crowd was flat at first, but both girls got them into it by the ending stretch and popped for the sudden finish which I liked in this situation as Candice was the underdog. Good stuff.

*Candice Michelle vs. Beth Phoenix- WWE Women's Championship
No Mercy 2007*

-This was a decent, short match. Obviously they were trying to cram as much as possible within the minutes they were given, if given about 5 more minutes they could've told a better story and possibly topped their match a month prior. Candice got in some good offense and Beth filled in the gaps with some big spots of her own. The finish came out of nowhere which in this situation kind of hurt the match given the build and persona that Beth had. Not really blaming them for that as they didn't have much time to work with. Overall, you knew by this point that Beth was going to win the strap sooner or later and in this case, she did.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What's everyone's top 5 Elimination Chambers?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

1. Raw '08
2. Raw '09
3. Raw '05
4. SD '11
5. SD '10

imo


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

1. Survivor Series 2002
2. Raw 2008
3. Raw 2009
4. Smackdown 2010
5. Smackdown 2011


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Later this month I'm going to do in-depth reviews of every elimination chamber, but for now (based off of what I remember) here are my top 5

1. NYR 2005
2. SS 2002 
3....Ahhhhh I have no clue.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

NYR 2005
SurSer 2002
I'm lost after that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

1) SVS 02
2) NYR 05
3) EC WHC 2011
4) EC WHC 2009
5) EC WWE Championship 2009


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Out of Backlash 2001 & Judgment Day 2001 which do you prefer. I think JD is the better overall card with better matches.


JD 2001 no argument. A superior main event, a superior Angle vs. Benoit match, and Benoit wrestles again later. The beginning of his unreal 9 day run that unfortunately gets glossed over.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

PulseGlazer said:


> JD 2001 no argument. A superior main event, a superior Angle vs. Benoit match, and Benoit wrestles again later. The beginning of his unreal 9 day run that unfortunately gets glossed over.


:agree:

Benoit/Angle (3 Stages of Hell) - Judgment Day 05/20/2001 - *** 1/2
Tag Team Turmoil from the same night was good but I don't know what I'd rate it.

Benoit & Jericho/Power Trip - Raw 05/21/2001 - **** 1/4

Benoit & Jericho/Edge & Christian/Dudleys/Hardys (TLC Match) - Smackdown 05/24/2001 - **** 1/2

Benoit/Austin - Raw 05/28/2001 - *** 1/2

Benoit/Austin - Smackdown 05/31/2001 - **** 1/2


Also,

Benoit/Angle (Cage Match) - Raw 06/11/2001 - ****


----------



## KYSeahawks (Nov 5, 2007)

Just watched Angle vs. Austin from Summerslam 2001 and wow I still think it is my favorite match to ever end by DQ. A gem in the crap Invasion storyline. ***3/4


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I LOVE that match. Some of the pops Angle got in that time period were insane.

I also love their Unforgiven and Vengeance matches from that year. Great stuff


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I recall that match being good but I may have to rewatch Summerslam 2001 at some point.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Fatal 4 Way Elimination Match Eddie/Angle/Benoit/Edge - SD 5/12/02 










Really fun, action packed, fast paced match up. It probably had more potential if it was just a basic 4 way match up instead of an elimination match. Edge's leg selling throughout the match is pretty good albeit I didn't like Angle's control segment when only him and Edge were left. It would've really added to the storytelling had he worked on the leg since it's more logical than applying a headlock for instance. Nonetheless, I liked Edge's momentum build and there's some nice near falls and one upmanship towards the end. Finish was fine with me.


----------



## Manelpirolito (Nov 5, 2006)

What's everyone's top 5 best years of wwe ppvs?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

In no order of favouritism

2000 - Royal Rumble, Backlash, Fully Loaded, Summerslam, No Mercy, Armageddon
2001 - Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Backlash, Judgement Day, King Of The Ring, Summerslam
2002 - Summerslam, No Mercy, Unforgiven, Armageddon
2003 - Wrestlemania, Summerslam, Great American Bash, 
2005 - Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Judgement Day, Vengeance


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

2004 - RR, WM, Backlash, Vengeance, Bad Blood, Summerslam, Survivor Series
2000 - RR, Backlash, Fully Loaded, Summerslam, Armageddon
2008 - RR, WM, Backlash, One Night Stand, Summerslam, No Mercy
2006 - RR, No Way Out, WM, Backlash, Judgment Day, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Armageddon
2009 (shit year for TV, good year for PPV matches) - RR, No Way Out, Backlash, Night Of Champions, Summerslam, HIAC, TLC


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

FluxCapacitor said:


> In no order of favouritism
> 
> 2000 - Royal Rumble, Backlash, Fully Loaded, Summerslam, No Mercy, Armageddon
> 2001 - Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Backlash, Judgement Day, King Of The Ring, Summerslam
> ...


Yeah, I'd probably agree with that. You can add Judgement Day & Vengeance to 2003 aswell.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just watched No Way Out 2002, pretty damn good PPV. Three main events all of which outdo each other. Solid undercard and a nice lead into Wrestlemania 18.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

So, I'm looking to get back into buying DVDs, but I don't really want to buy the recent ones which are fresh in my mind already. So what would be the best PPVs on DVD to buy between the years 2001-2005?

I'll probably be looking for all these DVDs on eBay. 

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

RatedR10 said:


> So, I'm looking to get back into buying DVDs, but I don't really want to buy the recent ones which are fresh in my mind already. So what would be the best PPVs on DVD to buy between the years 2001-2005?


Top 3


2001

Royal Rumble
No Way Out
WrestleMania 17


2002

SummerSlam
No Mercy
Survivor Series


2003

WrestleMania 19
Vengeance 
SummerSlam


2004

Royal Rumble
WrestleMania XX
Backlash


2005

WrestleMania 21
One Night Stand
Vengeance


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

[cheap plug]
For anyone in the UK who doesn't want to wait for SV to sort out whatever is going on I'm selling copies of the Clash Of The Champions and ECW Unreleased sets for £4 each.
[/cheap plug]


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Platt said:


> [cheap plug]
> For anyone in the UK who doesn't want to wait for SV to sort out whatever is going on I'm selling copies of the Clash Of The Champions and ECW Unreleased sets for £4 each.
> [/cheap plug]


PM Sent (Y)


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

Platt said:


> [cheap plug]
> For anyone in the UK who doesn't want to wait for SV to sort out whatever is going on I'm selling copies of the Clash Of The Champions and ECW Unreleased sets for £4 each.
> [/cheap plug]


PM'd mate (Y).


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

*Taboo Tuesday 2005*

Matt Hardy & Rey Mysterio/Masters & Snitsky *****
Eugene & Snuka v Conway & Tomko **1/2*
Mankind/Carlito **3/4*
Show & Kane v Cade & Murdoch ****
Batista / Coach & Goldust & Vader ***1/2*
Womans Match ****
HHH/Flair *****1/4*
Cena/HBK/Angle ******

This PPV never gets talked about, but its definately one of the best that 05 has to offer. Two 4 star plus matches, Cage match was sick, and the triple threat was very fun. All this was missing was a really good undercard match, the opening tag was fun though I guess.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Stone Cold vs Dude Love - Over the Edge 1998






Very entertaining brawl for the most part mixed with a few high spots alongside the entrance ramp. It really enhanced the Austin/Vince feud as Vince does a great job selling his hatred for Austin via mannerisms, facial expressions and how Patterson/Brisco change the stipulations to further make it tougher for Austin to win. Taker’s presence at ringside added another element of unpredictability to the match. JR/Lawler were on fire and the crowd is great for the most part which is always a bonus. 

****1/2


Stone Cold vs Undertaker - Summerslam 1998 






This match had an awesome build up, one of the best I can remember though the match doesn't quite deliver as much. It's a decent brawl and slugfest for the most part. The story here is simple to find out who the better man is and that's further enhanced when Kane shows up early in the match and Undertaker tells him to leave as he wants to settle the issue on his own. Austin works on Taker's leg early in the match which is logical as he's trying to take away Taker's edge in vertical base. He doesn't work on it a lot though so Taker's selling was never an issue to me. Marked huge for Taker's leg drop off the top rope on Austin. Couple of botches in there but don't really take away from the match for me. To me, the finish was booked fine with how evenly those two matched up since it showed Austin was willing to do anything to prove he's the better man and it further prolonged the feud with adding Kane to the mix. I think the ending of the match could've flowed a little better and the match could've been paced a little better. Hadn’t seen this match in a long time and these are two of my favourite wrestlers but couldn’t get very emotionally invested into it. 

***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know, in here we like to talk about great PPV's and what makes them so great compared to others, but I did some research and I found out that PPV's with THREE **** matches are EXTREMELY rare, and they only come along every few years. Just because a PPV has three **** matches doesn't necessarily mean that it's the greatest PPV of all time (for instance, MITB or SS 2011 don't have 3 **** matches). In the WWE era, here are my PPVs that have three **** matches:

Extreme Rules 2012 * ( Still need to rewatch the Punk-Jericho SF )
Wrestlemania 26 * (need to rewatch Edge-Jericho)
Wrestlemania 21
Wrestlemania 20 (How could you NOT with that many matches on one card)
Wrestlemania 19 (FOUR, arguably FIVE **** matches...Wow)

....And that's about it from me. Sure, ALOT of shows come very, very, VERY close, and I have to rewatch alot of matches, but IIRC that's the only PPV's in the WWE Era of their kind. Thoughts ?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't think of any WWE PPV that has three ****+ matches, but I'm not thinking too hard and am pickier than most. This is actually something I'll look for but for now I'll do WCW; 

Beach Blast 92 (Rude/Steamboat, Jack/Sting, MVC/Steiners) 
Spring Stampede 94 (Dustin/Buck, Flair/Steamboat, Jack & Payne v Nastys)
Slamboree 94 (Sting/Vader, Jack & Sullivan v Nastys, Regal v Zbyszko, Dustin v Buck)
SuperBrawl 92 (Dustin & Windham v Zbyszko & Austin, Pillman v Liger, Rude v Steamboat)

come up with a lot of WCW PPVs that have two ****+ matches on there, plus not even counting COTC becuase they aren't PPVS. FUCK I love early 90s WCW.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

^^^
FUCK


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

wwedvdnews.com said:


> We have learned that WWE are currently producing a DVD and Blu-Ray set titled: *The Rock vs. John Cena – Once in a Life Time.*
> 
> The set is on the schedule for release this fall and could possibly replace the Greatest Rivalry set rumoured earlier this year, given its similar theme.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I don't know what to say about this other than I won't be buying it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Good lord. :lmao

They're really gonna try and milk that to the end.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> You know, in here we like to talk about great PPV's and what makes them so great compared to others, but I did some research and I found out that PPV's with THREE **** matches are EXTREMELY rare, and they only come along every few years. Just because a PPV has three **** matches doesn't necessarily mean that it's the greatest PPV of all time (for instance, MITB or SS 2011 don't have 3 **** matches). In the WWE era, here are my PPVs that have three **** matches:
> 
> Extreme Rules 2012 * ( Still need to rewatch the Punk-Jericho SF )
> Wrestlemania 26 * (need to rewatch Edge-Jericho)
> ...


I don't know about others, but I didn't have Edge/Jericho at **** for me. I'd have it at about ***1/2. When I watched it on Jericho's DVD not too long ago, I didn't like it as much as when I watched it live.

WrestleMania 19...my god, what a card.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wrestlemania 24
HBK/Flair - ****3/4
MITB IV - ****1/4
Edge/Taker - ****1/4

Best PPV of all time, imo.

MITB '11 is close to three four star matches.

Punk/Cena - *****
SD MITB - ****1/4
Raw MITB - ***1/2
Christian/Orton - ***3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That upsets me greatly for one reason... THE MATCH WASN'T EVEN THAT GOOD ! Do I really need to sit through hours upon hours of this shit again, there's going to be like 2 matches on the entire DVD, that's not right. This HAS to be just a rumour or a mistake.

On a different note, does ANYBODY have a clue what the full match listing is for the FCA DVD ? This is the first time I can remember where we don't have a match listing out a mere 2 weeks before the DVD is released.

I've watched about 20 Bret Hart matches over the last two days in anticipation of meeting him on Thursday. The Bret Hart : BTI , BTW, BTEWB DVD is amazing and definitely one of the best Superstar DVDs of all time, as there isn't a single bad match on the whole collection. Gonna move on to the Hart and Soul collection as well as some Bret matches on other DVDs so that in a few days I'll have about 30-40 Bret matches reviewed. He really needs another 3 disc of matches and promos (Fuck, THE ROCK VS JOHN CENA MIGHT BE GETTING ONE !)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Err, lifetime is one word. Other than that, I got nothing.

As for the four star matches discussion, can't really think of any show with three either.


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

I think Wrestlemania 19 nearly has four, or very, very close to four.

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels: ****3/4
The Rock vs. Steve Austin: ****1/4
Booker T vs. Triple H: ***3/4 (This match doesnt usually get the praise it deserves)
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle: ***1/2


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

You listed two.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I have a lot of PPVs rated with 3 matches at **** or more? Or is that just me being too easy with my ratings? :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd have WM XIX as more than 3 **** matches:

Angle/Lesnar - ****1/4
HBK/Jericho - ****1/2
Rock/Austin - ****1/2
HHH/Booker T - ****

I think I had the tag match at **** too, but I'd probably not go that high any more .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Double post, but worth it:

SilverVision (Facebook, no doubt posted other places too)


> I am thrilled to say that the production issues have been resolved and pre-orders will be returning to the website shortly, starting with WrestleMania 28 later today. More will be added over the coming days as we get them scheduled. We’d like to thank you all for your patience and understanding over the past few weeks – once again you’d proved that we have the best customers in the world.


:mark:


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^ Great news! It was only Wrestlemania 28 that I was concerned about getting really, and someone kindly got it from Australia for me so I have it now 

Glad they've sorted their issues though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was waiting to see what would happen with SV before I went elsewhere for WM. Glad I did lol. Gonna pre-order WM 28 Bluray when it comes online later lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Or is that just me being too easy with my ratings? :lmao


no such thing. I don't use ratings anymore, but if I did I'd pretty much be a complete underrating wanker that people would probably loathe just because of how rare I'd give a match a super high rating. There are wuite a few matches people think are ***** I don't even think are ***. But I wouldn't change the way I think because of that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I already think you are a complete wanker without ratings :side:.

Got the ladder match 2 Bluray this week from SV's wild wednesday sale. Mainly cos it has Miz/Lawler as an extra . Also has a bunch of TV matches which I like to see on sets as PPV matches are easy to get hold of on dvd and whatnot as it is. Anyways, watched Austin Vs Shane/Vince from KOTR because... well because it was on after Foley/Bossman (short, fun, nothing more. HBK on commentary rating Foley's spots was the best part) and Foley/Rock (meh). Anyways... fuck, where did this match come from? Its like, really good. Probably a top 5 match for the year in WWF (not saying much I know). Vince and Shane get the shit beaten out of them and its like, really good. Love the set with the ladders, Shane and Austin did a little bit on top of it but nothing much, would be great to see it again at MITB or TLC as they could do some really cool spots from it. Austin bringing the entire thing down on top of Vince and Shane was cool too. Nice of them to put E&C Vs Hardys from the first Raw on TNN in 2000 on the set. Definitely a hidden gem that I rediscovered while doing my WWF 2000 comps. Edge does the spear from the ladder to Jeff hanging from a belt spot, just not from such a big ladder. Got a HUGE reaction though, so that's probably why they decided to do it even bigger at WM 17.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

EDIT- (almost) double post. Crap. Also fuck you @ cal.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

SV pre-orders are back!

http://www.facebook.com/silvervision


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

WrestleMania X-Seven has two 4-star matches. XIX has two, with Hunter/T coming very close and Lesnar/Angle too. Problem with Lesnar/Angle is that it just doesn't feel like a WRESTLEMANIA main event.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^Agreed. Lesnar/Angle is a great wrestling match but it doesn't feel like it should be the main event. Thing is, obviously they want a championship match headlining the show and Booker/Triple H doesn't have a happy outcome so they had to go with Brock/Angle.

Obviously if I had my way it'd end with Rock beating Austin  Hell, end it was Hogan beating Vince and I'd be happy.

HBK/Jericho - ****3/4
Booker T/Triple H - ***3/4
Hogan/Vince - ***/12
Rock/Austin - ****1/2
Angle/Brock - ****1/4

Also, I think the reason why I love Wrestlemania 28 so much already is because I think it delivered in different ways. Really, there was three main events and each one delivered something different that combined together made for a complete event that felt satisfying.

Undertaker/Triple H in the cell delivered a brutal war. It gave us the physicality we all enjoy.
CM Punk/Jericho gave us the best pure wrestling match of the night.
The Rock/Cena gave us the spectacle that the main event of Wrestlemania needs to be. And its capped off with the right person winning to the biggest victory pop I've ever seen.

So we get brutal physicality, pure wrestling, and Wrestlemania spectacle with a happy ending. Hell, you can even say the HIAC match was pure spectacle too.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Thought only Undertaker/Trips delivered as it should have. Rock/Cena was disappointing.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I think Punk and Jericho did well too. But what were you expecting from The Rock and John Cena, to have been disappointed?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Thought only Undertaker/Trips delivered as it should have. Rock/Cena was disappointing.


I thought it was as good as it could've been. Rock was good considering he hadn't had a singles match in 9 years, although there were one or two moments where he looked tired. Cena did well for his part too. 

My main issues with the match are Rock's horrendous Sharpshooter, and Cena's crappy STFU, because it was clear as day to anyone watching that he was putting zero effort into the move. It didn't look like he was doing nay damage at all. Cena was basically just laying on Rock's back and Rock was laying on his stomach. There needs to be a bit of realism and it was just poor execution.

But, I actually enjoyed the musical performances - Machine Gun Kelly pretty much getting booed off stage after his little pro-Cena speech was hilarious. The staredown was good, and reminiscent of Hogan/Rock 10 years ago. Both men overpowering each other at the beginning was great too, again just like Hogan/Rock.

The ending is such a feel-good moment too. Cena gets too cocky and wants to mock Rock with a People's Elbow, so he's not focusing on the important task for a few moments. Rock is smart and takes advantage for the win. When the camera cuts to the stadium going completely insane after the pin it gives me goosebumps.

Overall, cut the match down by a few minutes and sort out the Sharpshooter/STFU, and I can't complain


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> SV pre-orders are back!
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/silvervision


YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The match started off great. It made me feel like it was going to be something special but after the first 2-3 mins, it went downhill. The bulk of the match was boring. Too many terribad restholds, and I didn't think the finisherfest was done that well either. And I didn't really like the ending either, mostly b/c it didn't make any sense with regards to Cena's character, but w/e. They never should've went 31 mins.

A 15-20 minute match with them throwing bombs at each other until Cena eventually makes a sensible mistake would've served me better.



greendayedgehead said:


> I think Punk and Jericho did well too. But what were you expecting from The Rock and John Cena, to have been disappointed?


Something better?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock/Cena was shit. I'd honestly rather watch Kane/Orton from the same show instead. Hell, I genuinely liked Kane/Orton more and I *think* I rated them the same (**3/4). Rock/Cena had the better atmosphere (which I think is overrated. Being there was probably awesome, but it came across really bad on TV aside from 3 or 4 moments), Kane/Orton had the better match.

Still, overall I enjoyed WM 28 a ton. HIAC was epic, Jericho/Punk was epic, Kane/Orton was solid and beyond my expectations lol, and uhhh... well nothing else stood out in the slightest, but it was still a massive step up from WM 27 which had one match .


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I've said it for a while. I think The Rock vs. John Cena would've benefited going about 10 minutes less than what it actually did. Instead of 30 minutes, you get 20 minutes which limits the rest holds we would've seen in the match. The match for the most part is dull in the middle and really brings down the rating. Considering all the hype it got, it didn't live up to expectations IMO. It was a decent/good match with a great atmosphere, but it wasn't great.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I enjoyed the beginning and the end but the middle dragged a lot, the match should have been cut to about the 20minute mark which would have meant a much more intensive match

The match was never going to live up to the expectations put onto, that was the danger of planning it and building it for a full year, the end product was never going to be as good as fans had anticipated.

I still rate it as ***3/4 to **** stars just for the feeling it gave me at the conclusion, haven't been that invested and genuinely happy about an outcome of a match for a very long time


----------



## WahhWahh (Apr 30, 2012)

Rock/Cena was pretty shit. Expected more from it.

Can also say HHH/Taker wasn't as good as 27, Punk/Jericho had a dead crowd but was a good match. So pretty disappointed with WM overall but eh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 28 officially up for pre-order in Europe now  http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/WrestleMania-28/.

I'll wait for it to go on sale now though . Can't afford £22.99 for ONE event atm lol.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

SV are too expensive for all there stuff tbh £23 for one BD lol I only paid £13 to get it from the states.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just noticed, its only a 2 disc set. Don't we usually get a 3rd disc?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

So happy Silvervision is sorted. Want alot of the new content being released to be honest.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hopefully they get all new releases up soon too..


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I hated the Rock/Cena feud but the WM28 match is special to me because I was at ringside to experience it. Last week I got a chance to watch it on my TV for the first time and they had my heart racing! They captured the epic main event feel imo. 

I do think the match could have been stronger with less time in the middle and they could have had a more explosive nature. I loved Rock's selling of the hurt ribs throughout the match and how Rock's quick pin attempts in the beginning lit a fire under Cena's ass. I was surprised during the event and watching it back on DVD how the STF hardly got any reaction. The near-falls with the AA's and Rock Bottom were all good. 

The Rocky Maivia crossbody off the top into the AA was a great counter and believable finish which made it a great near fall. Rock almost made the biggest mistake in the match. I love the finish because Cena was the one to slip up and got caught which cost him everything (Interesting the same happened to Lesnar later that month). Rock winning and celebrating I'll never forget. Great main event - ******


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I just noticed, its only a 2 disc set. Don't we usually get a 3rd disc?


Yes, that disc is mostly the full RAW/SD episode that aired before the PPV.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

On the RAW-15th anniversary I heard some matches are clipped. How true is this? And how many matches aren't in full?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

It's true (it's true). I know for sure the USA vs. Canada Flag Match and Flair/Perfect "Loser Leaves WWF" are clipped. I haven't put that DVD in for a while come to think of it. Most of the segments are in full, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I remember seeing a best of Sting in Japan 2 disc set somewhere, could someone who may have it hook me up with as copy please (pm) thankyou for any help.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Extreme Rules 2011

Orton/Punk - ****
Sheamus/Kingston - ***1/4
Cole/Swagger vs King/JR - DUD
Mysterio/Rhodes - ***1/2
Layla/Michelle - *1/2
Christian/Del Rio - ****1/4
Show/Kane vs Zeke/Barrett - *
Cena/Miz/Morrison - ***3/4

Love the LMS and Ladder match. Really intense stuff to open a show with Punk and Orton. Kofi and Sheamus put together a nice throw together title match. Mysterio/Rhodes rivaled their WM match, maybe even better. Ladder match was epic. And then the main event was really fun. Holy shit though, the Cole match was fucking dreadful.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I love watching WWE events when all the shit is cut out, for example Survivor Series 2002 and Vengeance 2005. Extreme Rules 2011 & 2012 were both solid shows, but there is so much shit on there that people couldn't care about. Make a few matches a couple minutes longer, throw a promo in etc.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

zep81 said:


> I remember seeing a best of Sting in Japan 2 disc set somewhere, could someone who may have it hook me up with as copy please (pm) thankyou for any help.


http://www.highspots.com/p/20614.html

I think that's the one your talking about. If you go to IVP videos you might also be able to find some sets of Sting in Japan for a lot less than the one highspots has.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Question for those in the States who have Mania 28 on DVD rather than the Blu Ray - 

That extra stuff called *"The Rock: Great Ones"* has the Highlight Reel from 2003 with Rocky as the guest. Is it the full segment or is it clipped?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I didn't get that extra disc because I got my DVD from Amazon. I think that is a Toys R Us exclusive bonus.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Clique said:


> I didn't get that extra disc because I got my DVD from Amazon. I think that is a Toys R Us exclusive bonus.


Yeah I recall it being an exclusive from somewhere. It's included with the DVD edition on Silver Vision here in the UK.


----------



## Lennon_ (Mar 10, 2011)

Halfway through the Ladder Match 2 blu ray, about to watch disc 2 now. I was pretty impressed with what the fist half of the set had to offer. Great way to start off with the classic HBK/Razor bout. I enjoyed Austin/McMahon's, that was quite fun. What really got my attention was RVD/Christian from Raw in 2004 for the Intercontinental Championship. Great spots and bumps throughout the match, JR sums it up with the classic line "Both these men will never be the same again after tonight." The frog splash off the ladder is insane as well.


----------



## FearIs4UP (Apr 8, 2007)

About to watch WrestleMania 26. I've never seen it, hopefully it's good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FearIs4UP said:


> About to watch WrestleMania 26. I've never seen it, hopefully it's good.


It's a fairly good WM, imo. Couple matches could've used more time but still really good show.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Just watched WM28 again and finally decided to score it:

Rock/Cena was weak, very pedestrian match. I was supremely letdown by it. I rated it about *** 1/4 stars and that includes atmosphere (which was pretty awesome) and finish (which was nonsensical). 

Punk/Jericho blew them away easily **** stars maybe **** 1/4. 

The HIAC was awesome easily **** 1/2 stars. 

Orton/Kane *** 1/2 another pedestrian match but better worked than Rock/Cena. 

Rhodes/Show was a glorified squash match **

Team Teddy vs Team Johnny was kinda fun but definitely filler ***

Worst match of the night was a match that barely got started: Bryan/Sheamus DUD. 

--I also just watched Extreme Rules again and found it far more enjoyable than WM 28

Brock/Cena **** stars, brutal match. Lesnar flying off the stairs alone was worth the price of admission. Ending made more sense when you watch it closely. 

Jericho/Punk was fantastic, even better than their WM encounter. A beautiful mix of fighting and wrestling **** 7/8 

Rhodes/Show wasn't much better than their Mania match ** 1/2 stars. Cody's huge bump after the match would have increased their score if it happened during the match. 

Sheamus/Bryan was very good I gave it *** 7/8, it doesn't make sense that Sheamus "can't continue" during fall two and then out of nowhere he wins. That nonsense decision brought it down some to me. There should be no stigma to submitting, especially after DB got himself DQ'd to cause that injury. 

Orton/Kane was also very good. Unoriginal finish with the chair spot but great action up to that point *** 1/2 stars, eclipsed their 'mania match by leaps and bounds. 

Overall Extreme Rules was awesome. Action packed.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

FearIs4UP said:


> About to watch WrestleMania 26. I've never seen it, hopefully it's good.


Not great, only thing that is true Wrestlemania quality is HBK vs Taker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FearIs4UP said:


> About to watch WrestleMania 26. I've never seen it, hopefully it's good.


IMO one of the better Manias of the last 5 years. 

Taker/HBK is a classic. Edge/Jericho was an excellent match and second best of the night. Cena/Batista is up there as well as a great match and Punk/Mysterio, despite how short it was was great as well. MITB is fun as usual but probably one of the more forgettable ones. Vince/Bret... it's one of the worst matches I've ever had to lay my eyes on, and is only topped off the top of my head by Cole/King the year after. HHH/Sheamus was a good match come to think of it, but it's a bit of a blur. The rest of the card is a complete blur.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, Bret/Vince is on the same level of King/Cole. I'm not even sure which I can say is worse because I doubt I'll ever watch either again.

I guess I'll say Bret/Vince is better since The Hart Dynasty was involved, kind of. :side:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Did The Hart Dynasty get any sort of rub with Bret Hart's comeback? I wasn't watching a whole lot of wrestling at the time so I don't know.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Alim said:


> Did The Hart Dynasty get any sort of rub with Bret Hart's comeback? I wasn't watching a whole lot of wrestling at the time so I don't know.


They won the tag belts and Bret gave them the new unified titles we have no. And then come August or so WWE stopped caring about them.

Bret also won the US title off Miz one night and then gave it to R-Truth. :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of Bret, I'm going to meet him later today :mark: 

I'm going to get him to sign my Bret Hart : BTI , BTW , BTEWB DVD, and maybe an 8x10 of him if there's any on sale. Gonna ask him can I do his pose in the picture, should be a fun experience.

Also going to meet and get pics with Nash and Rhyno. Here's where I want help from you guys: If I'm going to get a DVD autographed by these two, which DVDs should I get autographed ?

Rhyno :

Wrestlemania XIX
Summerslam 2003
Vengeance 2004
Unforgiven 2004
ECW: One Night Stand 2005

Was thinking ONS 05 because of the prominence, but WM 19 is a good choice also.

Nash :

Bad Blood 2003
TLC 2011
The Very Best of WCW Monday Nitro
Monday Night Wars
Rise and Fall of WCW

Thinking BB 03 because he's actually on the cover, but there's ALOT of great choices here.

Help, anyone ?


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

jonoaries said:


> Just watched WM28 again and finally decided to score it:
> 
> Rock/Cena was weak, very pedestrian match. I was supremely letdown by it. I rated it about *** 1/4 stars and that includes atmosphere (which was pretty awesome) and finish (which was nonsensical).
> 
> ...


Nice to see there's someone that loved the Punk/Jericho street fight as much as I did. I also prefer it to Bryan/Sheamus.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Speaking of Bret, I'm going to meet him later today :mark:
> 
> I'm going to get him to sign my Bret Hart : BTI , BTW , BTEWB DVD, and maybe an 8x10 of him if there's any on sale. Gonna ask him can I do his pose in the picture, should be a fun experience.
> 
> ...


For Rhyno I'd say ONS. It's the most significant of those, imo.

Nash, I'd probably go with Bad Blood. Since he's on the cover it'd look really cool.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Punk/Mysterio from Mania 26 is around 4 stars for me, despite being just 6 minutes. AMAZING match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Punk/Mysterio from Mania 26 is around 4 stars for me, despite being just 6 minutes. AMAZING match.


I don't have it at four but it really is probably the best 6 minute match you could ask for.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I'd get Nash to sign either Bad Blood or a WCW DVD but since I'm a mark for WCW, I'd probably go with the WCW DVD. Out of your ones, Best of Nitro is what I'd ask to be signed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cage-Taylor Phitz said:


> http://www.highspots.com/p/20614.html
> 
> I think that's the one your talking about. If you go to IVP videos you might also be able to find some sets of Sting in Japan for a lot less than the one highspots has.


ok mate thanks, yeah that is where I origianlly saw that ser but was/am reluctant to pay close to a tenner for it tbh.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Watched Punk/Orton from WM 27. Really enjoyed it, god i miss Punk as a heel. ***1/2 for me.

That and HHH/Taker are the only worthy matches at WM 27.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Went into CEX for the first time in years today, picked up Ricky Steamboat: The Life Story Of The Dragon set for £6, really good condition too, looking forward to the matches, he was always one of my faves.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I remember Rhodes/Rey was pretty dope. Think I had that higher than Orton/Punk too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> I don't have it at four but it really is probably the best 6 minute match you could ask for.


I went to the bathroom when this match started because I really needed to go. On the way back to my seat I heard everybody cheering etc and by the time I actually sat down again the match was fucking over lol. I couldn't believe that I basically missed the whole thing. I wasn't expecting it to be so damn short.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Went into CEX for the first time in years today, picked up Ricky Steamboat: The Life Story Of The Dragon set for £6, really good condition too, looking forward to the matches, he was always one of my faves.


Awesome set, comes across as a very humble and down to earth guy in the documentary. The matches are top notch as well. Great watch.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> I went to the bathroom when this match started because I really needed to go. On the way back to my seat I heard everybody cheering etc and by the time I actually sat down again the match was fucking over lol. I couldn't believe that I basically missed the whole thing. I wasn't expecting it to be so damn short.


I do think I rate the match slightly higher b/c of how much they managed to tell with the time constraints.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Wrestlemania 27 had a better lowercard than 28. 

The first hour or so of 28 is fairly poor, but the top 3 matches on the card saved the show.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Wrestlemania 27 had a better lowercard than 28.
> 
> *The first hour or so of 28 is fairly poor*, but the top 3 matches on the card saved the show.


Apart from Kane/Orton.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I remember Rhodes/Rey was pretty dope. Think I had that higher than Orton/Punk too.


Shit i totally forgot about Rey/Rhodes.

Orton's DVD is pretty solid and contains possibly my favourite match of his career (Foley @ Backlash 04) ****1/2


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Kane/Orton was mediocre. Fighting over a handshake? Really?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Kane/Orton was mediocre. Fighting over a handshake? Really?


I thought it was a good little match at Wrestlemania to be honest. Although it seems I am one of very few people who enjoy Kane's ring work.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

It seemed like a waste of Orton who was having a great year match wise. 

Would have much rather seen Orton/Sheamus/Bryan and Kane/Ryder.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I didn't feel it was a waste. They had good matches at Wrestlemania, on Smackdown and at Extreme Rules.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Always been a WWE/WWF fan over WCW and I've been wanting to get in to WCW for some time, whether it be NWAWCW or just late 90's WCW, but I don't know where to start. Any must see matches (So far I've watched the Steamboat/Flair trilogy and the Rey/Eddie match from Halloween Havoc) that I need to watch you that you'd recomend. Any amount will do, I want to build up a list to watch that will keep me busy for a while 

Thanks


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye said:


> I don't have it at four but it really is probably the best 6 minute match you could ask for.


Agree with that and maybe Mysterio/Jericho from Raw June 2009 which is around the same time frame.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't care what the story was, the match between Orton and Kane was a very good match imo. Yeah, Orton probably could've had a better match with a dozen other workers maybe, but the match was the shining light of the shit filled first hour. It wasn't an amazing match or anything, but it was an enjoyable very good match to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Always been a WWE/WWF fan over WCW and I've been wanting to get in to WCW for some time, whether it be NWAWCW or just late 90's WCW, but I don't know where to start. Any must see matches (So far I've watched the Steamboat/Flair trilogy and the Rey/Eddie match from Halloween Havoc) that I need to watch you that you'd recomend. Any amount will do, I want to build up a list to watch that will keep me busy for a while
> 
> Thanks


Finished up a top 100 WCW matches ever poll with a bunch of people, and this is the final list. Should keep ya busy .



Spoiler: wcw



#100 Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (144 points)

#99 Ric Flair Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 20/05/1996 (146 points)

#98 Kidman Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Juventud Guerrera - Starrcade 27/12/1998 (148 points)

=#97 Sting Vs Rick Rude - Clash Of The Champions XVII 19/11/1991 (154 points)

=#97 Arn Anderson Vs Shane Douglas - World Championship Wrestling 17/02/1990 (154 points)

=#97 Arn Anderson Vs Ricky Steamboat - Pro 21/03/1992 (154 points)

#94 Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham - Saturday Night 03/10/1992 (155 points)

#93 Arn Anderson Vs Great Muta - Power Hour 12/01/1990 (157 points)

#92 Chris Jeircho Vs Ultimo Dragon - Bash At The Beach 13/07/1997 (158 points, One top 20 vote)

=#91 Nasty Boys Vs Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne - SuperBrawl 20/02/1994 (161 points)

=#91 Midnight Express Vs Original Midnight Express - Starrcade 26/12/1988 (161 points)

#89 Rey Mysterio Vs Super Calo - Fall Brawl 16/06/1996 (169 points, One top 20 vote)

#88 Chris Benoit Vs 2 Cold Scorpio - Superbrawl III 21/02/1993 (173 points)

#87 Bam Bam Bigelow Vs Hak - Spring Stampede 11/04/1999 (186 points, One top 15 vote)

#86 Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996 (192 points)

#85 Brian Pillman Vs Scotty Flamingo - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (195 points)

#84 Lord Steven Regal Vs Fit Finlay - Nitro 29/04/1996 (197 points)

#83 Steve Austin Vs Ricky Steamboat - Bash at the Beach 17/07/1994 (200 points)

#82 Ric Flair Vs Brian Pillman - 17/02/1990 (203 points)

=#81 Wrath & Mortis v Glacier & Ernest Miller - Bash at the Beach 13/07/1997 (206 points)

=#81 Vader Vs Ricky Steamboat - Worldwide 29/05/1993 (206 points)

#79 Rey Mysterio Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - Starrcade 29/12/1996 (210 points)

=#78 Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993 (214, One top 15 vote)

=#78 Chris Benoit Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 04/10/1999 (214 points, One top 15 vote)

#76 Arn Anderson/Ric Flair/Lex Luger/Sting Vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/Sting - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996 (216 points)

#75 Brian Pillman Vs Jushin Liger - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992 (220 points)

#74 Ric Flair & Barry Windham Vs The Midnight Express - Clash of the Champions 07/12/1988 (222 points)

#73 Lex Luger Vs Ricky Steamboat - Great American Bash 23/07/1989 (228 points)

#72 Cactus Jack Vs Paul Orndorff - Superbrawl III 12/02/1993 (232 points)

#71 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of Champions XXVIII 28/08/1994 (236 points, One top 20 vote)

#70 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash Of The Champions XX 02/09/1992 (246 points)

#69 Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 17/09/1995 (247 points, One top 15 vote)

#68 Chris Benoit Vs Diamond Dallas Page - SuperBrawl 22/02/1998 (250 points)

#67 Scott Hall & Kevin Nash Vs Randy Savage/Lex Luger/Sting - Bash At The Beach 07/07/1996 (253 points)

#66 Rick Rude Vs Dustin Rhodes - Worldwide 30/05/1992 (254 points)

#65 Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992 (258 points)

#64 Vader Vs Davey Boy Smith - Slamboree 23/05/1993 (272 points)

#63 Sting Vs Cactus Jack - Power Hour 16/11/1991 (273 points)

#62 Vader Vs The Boss - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (274 points, One top 20 vote)

#61 Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan Vs The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (281 points, One top 10 vote)

#60 Ric Flair Vs Sting - Great American Bash 07/07/1990 (283 points, One top 20 vote)

#59 Dustin Rhodes Vs Vader - Saturday Night 21/11/1992 (284 points)

#58 Ron Simmons Vs Vader - Main Event 02/08/1992 (286 points)

#57 Arn Anderson & Barry Windham Vs Doom - Starrcade 16/12/1990 (288 points)

#56 Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994 (292 points)

#55 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Philadelphia House Show 18/03/1989 (309 points, One top 10 vote)

#54 Lord Steven Regal Vs Sting - Great American Bash 16/06/1996 (318 points, One top 20 vote)

#53 Lord Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko - Saturday Night 28/05/1994 (319 points)

#52 Ric Flair Vs Hulk Hogan - Bash At The Beach 17/07/1994 (324 points, One top 20 vote)

#51 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (337 points, One top 5 vote)

#50 The Steiner Brothers Vs The Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 27/10/1990 (354 points, Two top 15 votes)

#49 Arn Anderson Vs Big Josh - 02/05/1992 (365 points, One top 10 vote)

#48 Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - WrestleWar 25/02/1990 (378 points)

#47 Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/Nasty Boys Vs Bunkhouse Buck/Arn Anderson/Terry Funk/Colonel Parker - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994 (383 votes, One top 15 vote)

#46 Arn Anderson Vs Barry Windham - 06/06/1992 (387 points, One top 10 vote)

#45 Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993 (390 points, One top 5 vote)

#44 Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 16/10/1995 (409 points)

#43 Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Slamboree 17/05/1998 (427 points)

#42 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 14/05/1994 (429 points, One top 5 vote)

#41 Rey Mysterio Vs Psicosis - Bash At The Beach 07/07/1996 (430 points, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#40 Ric Flair & Sting Vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 12/09/1989 (437 points)

#39 Chris Benoit Vs Kevin Sullivan - Great American Bash 16/06/1996 (443 points, Two top 20 votes)

#38 Jake Roberts Vs Dustin Rhodes - 26/09/1992 (445 points, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#37 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Landover House Show - 18/03/1989 (446 points, Two top 5 votes, Two top 15 votes)

#36 Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham Vs Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko - Superbrawl 29/02/1992 (449 points, One top 20 vote)

#35 Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999 (450 points, One top 10 vote)

#34 Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs The Steiners - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992 (466 points, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#33 Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994 (467 points, One top 15 vote)

#32 Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne Vs The Nasty Boys - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (475 points, One top 15 vote)

#31 Arn Anderson Vs Dustin Rhodes - Satuday Night 04/01/1992 (487 points, One top 20 vote)

#30 Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994 (501 points, One top 10 vote)

#29 Diamond Dallas Page Vs Randy Savage - Great American Bash 15/06/1997 (546 points, One top 15 vote)

#28 Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 23/05/1992 (551 points, One top 5 vote, One top 10 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#27 Ricky Steamboat Vs Lord Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993 (569 points, One top 5 vote)

#26 Hollywood Blondes Vs Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio - Worldwide 08/05/1993 (571 points, One top 15 vote)

#25 Lord Steven Regal Vs Fit Finlay - Uncensored 24/03/1996 (588 points, One top 5 vote, Two top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#24 Ric Flair Vs Hulk Hogan - Halloween Havoc 24/10/1994 (592 points, One top 5 vote, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#23 Sting Vs Vader - Great American Bash 12/07/1992 (602 points, Three top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#22 Rock n Roll Express Vs Midnight Express - Wrestlewar 25/02/1990 (634 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#21 Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 14/09/1997 (648 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#20 Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Larry Zbyszko/Bobby Eaton Vs Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham - Saturday Night 22/02/1992 (655 points, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes)

#19 Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas Vs Brian Pillman & Steve Austin - Starrcade 28/12/1992 (664 points, Four top 20 votes)

=#18 Sting Vs Vader - Starrcade 28/12/1992 (671 points, One top 10 vote)

=#18 Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes - Clash Of The Champions XXIX 16/11/1994 (671 points, One top 5 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#16 Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - Starrcade 26/12/1988 (677 points, One top 10 vote, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#15 Flair/Windham/Sid Vicious/Zbyszko Vs Sting/Pillman/The Steiners - Wrestlewar 24/02/1991 (691 points, Three top 10 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#14 Goldberg Vs Diamond Dallas Page - Halloween Havoc 24/10/1998 (725 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#13 Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes Vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko - Clash Of The Champions XVII 19/11/1991 (761 points, Two top 5 votes, One top 15 vote, Two top 20 votes)

#12 Sting Vs Vader - Superbrawl III 21/02/1993 (781 points, One top 5 vote, Three top 10 votes, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#11 Sting Vs Cactus Jack - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (782 points, Two top 10 votes, One top 15 vote)

#10 Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990 (793 points, Three top 10 votes, One top 20 vote)

#9 Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Clash Of The Champions IX 15/11/1989 (801 points, One #1 vote, Two top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, Two top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#8 Ric Flair Vs Vader - Starrcade 27/12/1993 (817 points, One top 5 vote, Three top 10 votes, One top 15 votes, Three top 20 votes)

#7 Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 23/07/1989 (869 votes, Two top 5 votes, Two top 10 votes, Two top 15 votes, Two top 20 votes)

#6 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlewar 07/05/1989 (889 votes, One #1 vote, Three top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, One top 15 vote, One top 10 vote)

#5 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 20/02/1989 (940 points, One #1 vote, Four top 5 votes, Two top 10 vote, Two top 15 vote, One top 20 vote)

#4 Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham Vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko/Austin/Rude - Wrestlewar 17/05/1992 (946 points, Four top 5 votes, Six top 10 votes)

#3 Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude - Beach Blast 20/06/1992 (949 points, Two #1 votes, Four top 5 votes, One top 10 vote, Three top 15 votes)

#2 Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash Of The Champions VI 02/04/1989 (951 points, Four #1 votes, Two top 5 votes, Three top 15 votes, One top 20 vote)

#1 Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997 (965 points, One #1 vote, Five top 5 votes, Four top 10 votes)


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I have a choice of two dvd sets. RAW: 15TH Anniverary, or the ladder match dvd set. Which should I get?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Christian/Shelton is probably the best TLC singles match, or I need to rewatch Flair/Edge. But yeah, ridiculously amazing match for the ECW championship.


andersonasshole900 said:


> Apart from Kane/Orton.


It's probably a technically sound wrestling match, but I couldn't get into this at all. Orton has been lacking on the character front for a while now, which means I rarely can unless he's facing someone that doesn't induce extreme feelings of 'meh' like he does me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought Christian/Shelton match sucked. Giant balls. Botches everywhere. Plus, it was a ladder match, not a TLC match (just took place at the TLC PPV) .

Flair/Edge was awesome, and I seem to recall another TLC singles match being great, but I can't for the life of me remember it (NOT Cena/Edge). Ah yeah, Miz/Lawler. Need to re-watch Punk/Hardy though.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Well hell. I think I noticed one botch, I just dug the creativity of the spots a lot. Christian getting colour so early was a nice, unexpected touch too.

I watched Punk/Hardy the other day. It's an okay match. Waitwhat, Miz and Lawler had a TLC match? Was this at Elimination Chamber?


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I just watched that Edie vs Rey match from Halloween Havoc and it was a good match and all but I really don't get how this could be voted as the best wcw match of all time. Can someone enlighten me?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Hardy/Punk is the GOAT Singles TLC match, IMO.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

How many singles TLCs are there, even?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Off the top of my head:

Edge/Flair Raw 1/??/06
Edge/Cena Unforgiven 06
Edge/Undertaker ONS08
Punk/Hardy SS08
Miz/Lawler Raw 12/??/10 (I think it was December 20 anyway)

Out of those I'd rank them:

1) Edge/Cena
2) Punk/Hardy
3) Edge/Flair
4) Edge/Undertaker
5) Miz/Lawler


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> Just watched WM28 again and finally decided to score it:
> 
> Rock/Cena was weak, very pedestrian match. I was supremely letdown by it. I rated it about *** 1/4 stars and that includes atmosphere (which was pretty awesome) and finish (which was nonsensical).
> 
> ...


How can you say Orton/Kane at ER eclipses their Mania match by leaps and bounds and rate both matches the same?


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Just picked up the first ladder match DVD and i'm very excited about watching it.

Taker v Jeff Hardy
TLC 3 & 4
Edge vs Matt Hardy
Christian vs Jericho
RVD vs Eddie
Hardy vs Nitro
Armageddon 06 4 way

All of them are matches I haven't seen in years and I seem to remember really enjoying them on first viewing, so they'll be top priority (plus it's always fun to watch the first 2 TLCs & HBK vs Razor).


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Obis said:


> Off the top of my head:
> 
> Edge/Flair Raw 1/??/06
> Edge/Cena Unforgiven 06
> ...


I have a feeling Edge/Flair is #2 or even joint #1 material, but again I'd have to rewatch it to make sure. Otherwise my rankings would be the same, except for not knowing about Miz/Lawler. They had a TLC match, really? lol why


Kane-UK said:


> Just picked up the first ladder match DVD and i'm very excited about watching it.
> 
> Taker v Jeff Hardy
> TLC 3 & 4
> ...


Holy hell, Ladder Match 1 has TLC III on it? I've been looking for a release of that for evaaar, thought I'd got it on the Smackdown set but it turns out it was just highlights :sad:

I didn't even know there was a TLC IV. And if you factor in the unofficial first TLC at Wrestlemania 16, I guess it'd make it TLC V :kane


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

TLC IV was named Raw match of the decade in 2003.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

greendayedgehead said:


> Holy hell, Ladder Match 1 has TLC III on it? I've been looking for a release of that for evaaar, thought I'd got it on the Smackdown set but it turns out it was just highlights :sad:
> 
> I didn't even know there was a TLC IV. And if you factor in the unofficial first TLC at Wrestlemania 16, I guess it'd make it TLC V :kane


http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/The-Ladder-Match-DVD-3-Discs.html

it's on disc 2

TLC 4 is Kane vs Jeff/RVD vs Bubba/Spike vs Christian/Jericho. As a Kane mark it's one of my favourite matches, even though the 'quality' perhaps isn't at the same level as the first three TLCs, as he just tears the place up on his own  .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Clique said:


> TLC IV was named Raw match of the decade in 2003.


Huh, did not know. So that's the 1993-2003 decade?


Kane-UK said:


> http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/The-Ladder-Match-DVD-3-Discs.html
> 
> it's on disc 2
> 
> TLC 4 is Kane vs Jeff/RVD vs Bubba/Spike vs Christian/Jericho. As a Kane mark it's one of my favourite matches, even though the 'quality' perhaps isn't at the same level as the first three TLCs, as he just tears the place up on his own  .


Will give it a watch some time. Thank you for that.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

greendayedgehead said:


> Huh, did not know. So that's the 1993-2003 decade?


They named it MOTD at the Raw 10th Anniversary awards show they did in January 2003. I disagree with the choice even though I really enjoyed the match. Owen/Bulldog is my pick for best Raw match ever and I don't think it was even nominated.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> Bulldog-Owen, and I don't think it was even nominated.


Say what?! Conveiniently forget did they...


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

TLC 4 was great, I loved it. Spike Dudley was like a crash test dummy for that match, the bumps he took were outrageous, epsecially the one running face first into the ladder in the corner, not even getting his hands up or anything. Really underrated match despite being named Raw match of the Decade in 2003.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

greendayedgehead said:


> Well hell. I think I noticed one botch, I just dug the creativity of the spots a lot. Christian getting colour so early was a nice, unexpected touch too.
> 
> I watched Punk/Hardy the other day. It's an okay match. Waitwhat, Miz and Lawler had a TLC match? Was this at Elimination Chamber?


Happened on Raw, not long after Miz won the belt. Cole interfered to help Miz, and thus began the EPIC (aka long winded dull as fuck) feud between Lawler and Cole .


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

As bad as Lawler/Miz TLC is, I always get really into the match whenever I watch it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Miz's second best match ever imo lol.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Watched Kane/ADR/Edge/Mysterio TLC the other day , really great match ****1/4.

Also the last time the WHC ended a PPV.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't think that ended the PPV?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Watched Kane/ADR/Edge/Mysterio TLC the other day , really great match ****1/4.
> 
> Also the last time the WHC ended a PPV.


It ended that PPV? Thought Barrett/Cena ended that PPV.

Unless you were asking when was the last time the WHC ended a PPV? In that case, I believe it was the Taker/Kane HIAC WHC in 2010.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Watched Kane/ADR/Edge/Mysterio TLC the other day , really great match ****1/4.
> 
> Also the last time the WHC ended a PPV.


It didn't end the PPV lol, it was Cena/Barrett in a chairs match that year I believe.

I'm not a huge fan of _that_ TLC match in particular, but I do remember enjoying that PPV a lot.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rewatched Christian/Benjamin @ TLC 09 and do not agree with the praise it's been getting.

there were a few botches in situations these guys had been in a hundred times before. stopping the match really hurt the pace and want to win. not saying it was a bad match it just wasn't what i expected considering who these guys were. 

**3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ever Wolf said:


> Rewatched Christian/Benjamin @ TLC 09 and do not agree with the praise it's been getting.
> 
> there were a few botches in situations these guys had been in a hundred times before. stopping the match really hurt the pace and want to win. not saying it was a bad match it just wasn't what i expected considering who these guys were.
> 
> **3/4


Woo someone agrees with me lol. I haven't seen it since it happened, but here is what I wrote about it way back then:

Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - Ladder Match for the ECW Title

This is the opener? I don't know if that's just WWE not giving a shit about the ECW Title, or if its WWE having confidence in both guys to kick off the PPV in the best way possible... or if they simply wanted the ladder and TLC matches as far apart as possible .

This was a train wreck for the most part IMO. A lot of the spots were sloppy looking, some of the things they tried to do with the ladder were just pure shit (when Shelton set up the ladder upright against the ropes... WTF was he trying to do?), and don't even get me fucking started on the blood issue. It did get better towards the end at least. starting with...

The Powerbomb to Christian into the ladder after dropping from where the belt was (he was hanging) looked awesome, but barely got a pop from the crowd lol. Christian then countering the second powerbomb from Shelton was nice, showed us that Shelton shouldn't have gone for the same move twice before Christian is a wise veteran.

Finish was ok I guess, I guess after seeing so many ladder matches in the past, even something as cool as being splashed through a ladder isn't that impressive any more lol.

Certainly NOT the MOTN I was expecting. A major disappointment for me, and probably for them too.

Rating: **1/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The amount of times Benjamin grabbed a ladder and looked lost what to do with it had me chuckling.

Christian calling the spots (you can clearly see one point him telling Benjamin what to do next) felt cluttered and thrown together and in the end i couldn't wait for it to be over.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Top 5 Non-Wrestlemania PPV from 2001-2010, Go.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;11560453 said:


> Top 5 Non-Wrestlemania PPV from 2001-2010, Go.


there is a thread on this mate...

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/621113-top-ten-non-wrestlemania-ppvs.html


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I thought it did from memory , since I just watched the match as part of the new Edge dvd.

How stupid of me to question who main events a show other than Cena lol.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Full match listing for Falls Count Anywhere http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-falls-count-anywhere-dvd/24283/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, it has a wide variety of matches, which is good, and plenty of TV matches... nothing I'd go out of my way to see though. Won't be picking up the set.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Looks like a download to me. Not too impressed, have most of those matches on other dvds/files i have.

Miz/Lawler TLC @ Raw November 29th 2010 (i think)

*****

This is good, surprisingly so. Lawler takes one or two bumps and Miz looks solid, Punk on commentary really bumps this up a bit. This is slightly better than Benjamin/Christian TLC 09 which is saying something considering the names in each match.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Jazz vs. Lita vs. Trish Stratus- WWE Women's Championship
Wrestlemania X8 2002*

-Now if my memory serves me correctly, a lot of people detested this match but honestly I didn't think it was that bad actually. It's nowhere near the quality of the Triple Threat a year later but it was still good. A few misques here and there but they managed to hold my interest with some good back and forth. It was sightly funny that Lita couldn't get her shirt off though and the Super Fisherman DDT from Jazz was sick. Decent triple threat and the girls worked hard with the time they had but they just couldn't click on this night.

*Beth Phoenix vs. Candice Michelle- WWE Women's Championship
No Mercy 2008*

-Goodness I love Candice Michelle, anyways I really loved the irony here with the girls having a rematch one year later at the same event that Beth took the strap off of Candice. Good start with Candice immediately taking it to Beth with a flurry of moves, but Beth comes back targeting the repaired shoulder of Candice and Candice does a great job of selling the damage although for her short comeback spurt she forgets too but quickly goes back to selling it. Santino distraction almost lets Candice get the win; Candice goes for the Candi Wrapper but Beth counters into the GlamSlam simple but cool finish. This match got about 6-7 minutes and I would probably put this on the same level as their Unforgiven 2007 match if not better.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Good to see the Orton/Rhodes street fight being released on a set. Genuine 2011 TV MOTY


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Baldwin. said:


> Full match listing for Falls Count Anywhere http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-falls-count-anywhere-dvd/24283/


Bundle of fun that set looks. May pick it up.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

How good is the ladder match (1st one) dvd set? I just ordered it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

First ladder match set is pretty darn great, even for me who doesn't enjoy ladder matches THAT much. Being the first set they had the pick of the absolute best that had taken place at the time. Sure, a couple of dodgy ones, but mostly great picks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> How good is the ladder match (1st one) dvd set? I just ordered it.


I havnt watched all the discs yet but I can say its a great set imo, many awesome matches, sone really good picks too, highly recommended.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone got the Roddy Piper set?

I'm contemplating either getting that or the Edge Decade Of Decedance set, being a wrestling fan since '88 thus being old skool lol I may go for the Piper one atm...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Piper set is awesome. Good doc, an entire disc of Piper's Pits, and some good/fun matches too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Piper's has the good documentary and entertaining Piper's Pit segments while Edge's has more and better matches (imo). I usually go with the one that has the better matches unless the documentary is great like ECW, WCCW, Roberts, etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks as always guys, tough choice in terms of matches as they are completly different and from seperate era's.

ill hav a think lol, ill end up getting the other one sometime anyways im sure.

Also probably gonna get the best ppv matches of 09-10 whilst its £4.99 too...


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Random rewatch.

*Chris Masters vs Drew Mcintyre - Superstars 5/12/11*

I really like this match. The formula it follows is kinda simple but I just find it really easy to get into and both men put in a great performance. Opening sequences are nice, Masters asserts his dominance and Mcintyre gets flustered so starts working over Masters' left leg; this is where the match gets awesome. Mcintyre is just so sadistic in his attack and Masters sells it perfectly, everything he does is affected by the pain in his leg, Mcintyre hooking the bad leg for pins and it hurting Masters when he kicks out are just some examples. Plus there's an awesome figure four spot on the ring post outside which looks nice. I think Masters does a great job of playing the believable babyface and his comeback is nice too, even if the ending feels weak. Again he sells the leg nicely in the finish by having to drop to one knee during the Masterlock but overall I think this was easily one of my favourite TV matches from last year. I miss Masters and Mcintyre needs to be used more. I might go watch him be awesome in last years Smackdown EC.

****3/4*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Money In The Bank 2011*

*Smackdown MITB - Cody Rhodes vs Sin Cara vs Sheamus vs Justin Gabriel vs Heath Slater vs Wade Barrett vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan*

This match was a wonderful way to start the show and a great way to showcase the midcard. Gabriel and Slater both had awesome moments in this match in the high flying department. Sin Cara going through that ladder is still an insane spot, especially considering he sold it like a champ. Sheamus was very dominant and Bryan/Barrett/Rhodes/Kane all had their good parts too. But I felt like 90% of the match was innovative and made everyone look good. Crowd was into it. :lmao at CM Punk chants mid match. Lots of really cool spots in this one and just an overall good job of everything. One of my favorite MITB matches.

****1/4

*Divas Championship - Brie Bella w/Nikki Bella vs Kelly Kelly w/Eve
*
Didn't hate this match. It's not half bad for a KK match. I've always found the Bella Twins to be good at working a match if given time and they have ring presence. Brie works over Kelly for a bit with not much outside interference from either party. Finish comes when Kelly starts screaming and trying a move here or there. Actually a false finish in this one too. And Kelly wins with her finisher. Decent divas match.

*3/4

*Mark Henry vs The Big Show*

When you think of these two guys in a match, it doesn't sound too appealing. But this match was actually pretty solid. Henry looked like an absolute beast in this match and actually dominated Big Show. How often does that happen? And Henry's attack after the match was really good. Fun match.

***

*Raw MITB - Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio vs R-Truth vs Jack Swagger vs Evan Bourne vs Kofi Kingston vs The Miz vs Alex Riley*

Where the hell was Dolph for this match?! Regardless, this match had quite a bit of innovation to it as well but not nearly as much as the SD match. Bourne's SSP outside the ring was an insane spot, as was the unintentional fall from Kofi where it looked as if his knee landed on Swagger's neck. The finish seemed a tad botched too with Rey knocking the ladder Del Rio was on over. :lmao In this one, not too many people shined. Miz's return after the injury was good, Bourne had osme fun spots and Swagger was the guy working most of the match in the ring but there was no real MVP, imo. Still a good match.

***1/2

*World Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton vs Christian*

The stipulation to this where if Orton got DQed he'd lose the belt worked perfectly. Yet again Christian and Orton manage to have a good title match but I'd rate it 4th on the list after OTL, SS and the SD cage match. Christian's attempts to get Orton to snap were brilliant and in the end he managed to be successful. Good for Christian to get the belt back but I would have preferred some sort of pinfall victory. I'll take it though, still a really good match.

***3/4

*WWE Championship - CM Punk vs John Cena*

Have this match at the full five snowflakes going in...and it's not changing. Everything in this match had some sort of reason to it and the selling was incredible. The Chicago crowd was as hot as I've ever seen them and kept going the entire half hour. And honestly, I don't think there was ever a point where either guy was in full control for over 2 minutes. It put them on such an even playing field. You can't tell me that you didn't think the match was over after the 2nd AA. It just looked like that time of the show where the match would end but somehow Punk kicks out and it keeps going! Both guys managed to sell the hell out of the work done by their opponent progressively as the match went on. Still one of my favorite matches to watch that I can watch any day. Sure there's some botches in it, but it honestly doesn't affect my enjoyment of the match.

*****

Overall this is my favorite show in years and I honestly don't think there's a weak point on the show. 10/10​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When I saw *Brye* mention that 2009 was a great year for PPVs I was a little bit skeptical, although I've barely seen ANY PPV matches from that year. Out of my extensive DVD collection, I only owned Royal Rumble 2009 out of the 09 PPV series.

So, I went down to HMV and picked up Bragging Rights 09, as I haven't seen a single match from the PPV and it has a few matches that I'm interested in. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint, but if it does, I didn't pay much for it.

Oh yeah I almost forgot, meeting Bret was an amazing experience and I encourage anybody who gets the chance to meet him to get out there and do it. He makes the meet and greet very personal, I'll go in depth about this tomorrow I think.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> When I saw *Brye* mention that 2009 was a great year for PPVs I was a little bit skeptical, although I've barely seen ANY PPV matches from that year. Out of my extensive DVD collection, I only owned Royal Rumble 2009 out of the 09 PPV series.
> 
> So, I went down to HMV and picked up Bragging Rights 09, as I haven't seen a single match from the PPV and it has a few matches that I'm interested in. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint, but if it does, I didn't pay much for it.
> 
> Oh yeah I almost forgot, meeting Bret was an amazing experience and I encourage anybody who gets the chance to meet him to get out there and do it. He makes the meet and greet very personal, I'll go in depth about this tomorrow I think.


BR is a fun show. (Y) Main event isn't too great though. I mean it's got it's moments but nothing special.

If you haven't seen No Way Out, Backlash, Summerslam, Survivor Series, Night Of Champions or TLC from that year, I'd honestly recommend any of those.

And meeting Bret must have been awesome. Did you end up meeting Nash too?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Christian vs Drew McIntyre WWE Superstars 5/31/12 ***1/4*

The fact we get McIntrye's full entrance already puts me in a positive mindset about this match.Drew uses his poweradvantage/wickedness to gain an advantage, then sets out to work over the ribs of Christian.Good mix of holds/strikes from Drew and a really nice reverse suplex over the ropes.I think Christian may be one of the best in the WWE in getting a crowd behind him through his moveset and just sheer charisma he has in the ring. Really good back and forth action till , Christian pounces on a mistake from Drew at the end. 

Overall, a really solid match that wouldn't be out of place on a PPV. (Push McIntyre (Y))


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I also bought Backlash 2006 at CEX too for only £2, I never seen this one and generally I enjoyed the event tbh, the mcmahon-hbk match was entertaining lol, I forgot about vince's battle with the man upstairs lol!!

Didn't Vince have a one on one with God too at some point?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

zep81 said:


> I also bought Backlash 2006 at CEX too for only £2, I never seen this one and generally I enjoyed the event tbh, the mcmahon-hbk match was entertaining lol, I forgot about vince's battle with the man upstairs lol!!
> 
> Didn't Vince have a one on one with God too at some point?


The main event of that show is my 2nd favorite triple threat.

Benjamin/RVD is really great too. HBK/God vs McMahons is really fun. Plus Carlito/Masters is pretty solid.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That triple threat with Cena/Edge/Trip is excellent, one of a few really exciting triple threats (which i usually don't like the traditional formula of)

I remember Backlash 06 being really good but then again so are most of the Backlash PPV's over the years.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWE bought the Mid-South/UWF library. :mark:



> PWInsider.com has confirmed that WWE has acquired the Watts video library consisting of Mid-South Wrestling and the original Universal Wrestling Federation. The library, which was owned by Bill Watt's ex-wife Ene as part of a divorce settlement, was the largest known video collection now owned by WWE. There had been numerous meetings and attempts to purchase the library by WWE but the two sides had been unable to come to terms. WWE will officially take possession of the library this week. One WWE source noted that there are already discussions internally to do a DVD documentary on the promotion as well as full fledged DVDs on Ted DiBiase, Junkyard Dog and Hacksaw Duggan, all of whom were major stars for the territory. I want to thank Brian Pickering for his help.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I met Rhyno and Nash at a seperate time than I met Bret (which was a two hour wait in line), and both were extremely nice and fan-friendly. My best friend who went with me is a huge Detroit sports fan, so we stuck around and talked some Baseball and Hockey with the two Detroit natives, and they were heavily engaged in the conversation (I would imagine it was a nice change up from the amount of wrestling talk these two receive in a day), it was a blast. Rhyno answered my question by saying that ROH was the funnest place he's ever worked as the backstage morale is amazing (even better than ECW).

Meeting Bret was one of the best experiences I can remember in a long time. Everybody there was getting very vanilla pictures with him (shaking hands and smiling, etc) , but when I walked up to him I asked him could we do the pose, and a big smirk came on his face. We then moved onto the autograph signing as he signed my DVD, personalized an 8x10, and even signed a pair of Hitman glasses for me. It seemed like it was going to be a typical meet and greet until I mentioned to him that while TURFC is regarded as the best DVD in history, I believe that his was the greatest because every match told a different story, whereas Flair was more of a formula worker. 

That's when he stopped everything and we had a very nice 3-4 minute chat about storytelling and fluency in the ring. He told me that Flair is an amazing worker, but his major flaw is that he gets lost in the ring sometimes and goes back to using the same old formula. His exact quite was something along the lines of "Flair could be telling a story for 5 minutes and get lost, and then BAM he does another turnbuckle flip". He then mentioned Hogan as another formula worker, although Hogan was more for big men. I would imagine that this lengthy conversation pissed off the 2-300 people behind me in line that were waiting for hours to meet Bret as well. He looked me in the eyes, said "It was a pleasure to meet you" and I was on my way.

It meant the world to me, because I was talking to him about the same things I would talk to you guys about on this forum. It was a personal honour to pick one of the greatest of all time's brain on the ins and outs of the business. Whereas I met Hogan and it was just a quick photo op and signing (with half as many people in line), me and Bret had an intelligent conversation. That's not a knock on Hogan however, as he was certainly a genuinely nice person who cares about the fans and a fantastic guy all around who I would meet all over again, it's just that meeting Bret exceeded my own expectations so much.

The top 5 guys I'd like to meet now goes like this:

1. HHH (Obviously)
2. Flair
3. HBK
4. Undertaker (Would imagine it's almost damn near impossible)
5. Foley

Then it's guys like Piper, Dibiase, Rhodes, Punk, Etc. How about you guys ?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've met Umaga and Kane which I thought were really cool. One of the Spirit Squad guys too but not Dolph or Kenny. Didn't talk long, it was before a houseshow. But Umaga would be in my top 5 if I hadn't. But as for that...

1. Shawn Michaels
2. CM Punk
3. Edge
4. Christian
5. Dolph Ziggler


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Although I would prefer 2007 and 2008 over 2009, I do agree that it was an above average year and had some great matches.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Didn't Savage work for Mid-South at one point?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

admiremyclone said:


> Didn't Savage work for Mid-South at one point?


Nah, he worked for the Memphis CWA promotion after his dad's company ICW shut down. Vince picked him up from there.


----------



## wkdsoul (Apr 2, 2012)

Just watched the rise and fall of ECW, having seen a few matches and the relevant WWE invasions bits during the ;late 90's but never really knowing the in's and out's of ECW history etc.

Good DVD, and Punk's still correct... "That's right, I'm a Heyman guy."


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

Ended up buying the last copy of ECW Unreleased Volume 1 at my local Walmart today. Just finished disc one and by the looks of it so far, it seems to be an alright set. Not the greatest one WWE has released over the years, especially for ECW. But if you have an extra twenty bucks lying around it's worth picking up to add to your collection.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE Confidential : Volume 1*

This is a one disc set from the WWE that was released in late 2003, highlighting the best of WWE Confidential, a show that featured various vignettes and interview/documentary type segments that normally broke kayfabe, although some of it was used to highlight the more "entertainment" style of the company at this point. What we get here is a documentary featuring various parts from the show, and we get 4 matches as extras. The segments that we get on this disc are a real nice treat, ranging from hilarious vignettes on Bobby Heenan, to stories about the world's oldest wrestling fan and her connection to The Rock, to the first in-depth look at the Montreal Screwjob on national television (from the WWE's angle anyways). The "superstars at home" featurettes were nice to see, as we get an in depth look at wrestlers like Stratus and Regal outside of the ring, showing off their personality.

Those segments alone offer much for the fan of the "entertainment" side of the WWE. As for the diehard wrestling fan, they'll be thrilled to hear stories such as the first in depth WWE account of the Montreal Screwjob, an in depth look at the Monday Night Wars / a history of the WWE championship, and various other strictly-wrestling segments. At a run time of 2 hours, this documentary style main feature is hosted by Gene Okerlund, and since the amount of topics covered on this set are so diverse, it's impossible to get bored while watching it. I wouldn't recommend this to any pure WRESTLING fan, but to a fan of the WWE like myself this was pure gold. Very, very fun feature that just flew by.

_Jimmy Snuka vs Ray Stevens 1983 MSG_

These two on paper sounds like it has the potential to be a very good, physical match with tons of psychology and exciting high flying moves. However, what we get here is a slow paced matchup that is very short in length at about 6-7 minutes. We start off with a pretty good sequence, with superfly going for a second rope manuver and actually hitting it, before we move on to the painful part of the match, which is basically 5 minutes of these guys not doing very much besides standing around.

Seriously, I just watched this and I have barely anything to say about it, besides the fact that it was extremely dull. Old school fans might love this because of this slow pace, but you have to remember that this isn't a Backlund match or a Bockwinkel classic; It's Jimmy fucking Snuka, he should be flying around the ring doing all sorts of crazy shit. Not a good match, but it has a moment or two. NO IDEA why it's on here.

** 1/4*

_Bret Hart vs The British Bulldog Summerslam 1992_

The atmosphere is absolutely off the charts here as these two go into battle. These two know each other's in-ring styles and characters very well, so they're able to put on a show and tell a fluent story everytime they go out there, and IMO this is the greatest match that these two have ever had. Davey Boy wasn't his best in here, but he didn't have to be, as this is the biggest carry job of all time, carried out by the master himself. We get a beautiful exchange at the beginning of the match as neither of this men can gain a definitive advantage. There are a few moments in this match where Bret takes some huge bumps, and kudos to him for taking an absolute beating out there. There are points where he gets caught in the ropes, where he actually gets crotched on the top turnbuckle (legitimately) , and there's a spot where Davey Boy is supposed to catch Hart doing an over the top rope crossbody, but Bulldog misses his spot so Bret improvises into a sort of mid-air headlock takeover, which is a very impressive save.

Davey has the power advantage in his home country while Bret has the speed/technical advantage here, which is a beautiful contrast of styles as both men exchange and escape finishers. This is all workrate and nearfalls here, as I found myself at the edge of my seat the entire time that I was watching this match. I love the many storylines of these two being family, the connection between the two nationalities, and Diana Hart being a background point instead of being the main focus. These two just tore the house down, and honestly you should check this match out ASAP. It's carrying 101 by Bret Hart, and if Davey had to be a little better this would be ***** easily. My MOTY for 1992, the crowd goes beserk for the title change that led to Bret being catapulted in the WWE championship picture. Fantastic, fantastic match.

***** 3/4*

_Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels Survivor Series 1997_

I could sit here all day and talk about the Montreal screwjob, but instead I'm going to focus on the actual match. I'm making an exception here and grading the pre match fight as a part of the actual match itself, as it's just such an intense battle between two greats, that it needed to take place in this paticular segment. Shawn plays the cocky prick heel just as well as Bret plays the hometown hero in this match, as these two characters play so well off of each other in this match that you can see the pure hatred taking place between them. The pre match fight is very intense, with both men getting in their shots all over the arena, a very attitude era esque brawl. This goes on for a while until we get the actual match. Shawn's bumping around all over the floor and ring is just superb, and shows why he takes a bump better than anybody in history. The intensity is showing in this one and I ask myself ; WHERE WAS THIS IN THEIR PREVIOUS MATCHES ?!?!

Some great spots here, as the weapon use is kept to a minimum but is used so effectively that it does nothing but contribute to the story. Bret's leg work to Shawn is absolutely fantastic, as he works Shawns leg with a variety of holds and strikes before applying the figure four. Shawn sells this accordingly as this is just great stuff with a fantastic pace here. A crossbody reversal nearfall takes place, as for a second I thought this was over (even though I already know the ending 15 years later). Shawn puts Bret in the sharpshooter, and we all know what happens then. Allegedly this match was supposed to be twice as long, and if that was the case, this probably would have been worse off. This is the kind of match these two always needed : An intense, well paced FIGHT with great psychology. These two needed to cut out the headlocks and just BRAWL, and that's what we got in this one. It's such a shame that this match is enamoured in controversy, as I believe that it is the greatest Bret vs Shawn match ever, and probably the only classic/near classic encounter that these two have had together. One of the most underrated matches of all time.

******

_Booker T vs Scott Steiner Nitro 2001_

This is on the last episode of Nitro, so obviously a very emotional match taking place here. This isn't really much of a MATCH per se, as it's about a little over 5 minutes long. This is about the big feel good moment for Booker T, having worked so hard in his life, getting to finish with the company as the World Champion meant everything to him. The match itself told a pretty good story, as Steiner was an unstoppable monster at this point who was just destroying everything. His cocky heel mannerisms were great ; telling the referee to count his pushups mid match, and flexing his biceps to the crowd made the fans more into Booker T. Some decent moves here by both men as we get some finishers by Booker, as well as a variety of slams and suplexes by Steiner. Booker wins this in an emotional moment, as this was a very fast paced match for two big workers. Short, but a significant moment, and good in quality.

*** 1/2*

_Thoughts_

It's impossible to grade this like you would grade a 3 disc set, as it just isn't fair. You have to grade this for what it is : A one disc feature highlighting the ins and outs of the ring, with a few extra matches on the side for bonus material. The documentary style main feature will be hit and miss for alot of people, although I enjoyed it very much. When it comes to the matches, we get a Snuka match that I don't know WHY is on this, an all time classic that can be found on other DVDs, and a historically significant/short WCW title match.

The main reason to buy this DVD is simple: The Survivor Series 97 match between Shawn and Bret. If you don't own a blu-ray player, this is the only home video release that features this match, including the big time entrances and all. If you want to see a fantastic match between two all time greats, and you are entertained by the antics of the WWE, pick this one up. If you don't care much for the entertainment side of the WWE and you don't care about the SS 97 match, stay away. Good quality, if you can grab this for cheap, go ahead.

*6.5/10*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seems the Rise and Fall of ECW Dvd is a bit rare atm, out of stock at SV, over £20 even on eBay, used its £40 on play ffs!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh, wonder if its randomly gone out of production, which wouldn't make much sense considering how well it sold (and how well it could still sell, especially with that new ECW set that's just been release/will be released over here in the UK soon). Glad I got my copy long ago, even if I've only ever watched the documentary (fuck the ECW matches!  ).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've tweeted SV to ask if they'll have it back anytime.

Oh, this weeks *Wild Wednesday at Silvervision*:

The Besr of King Of The Ring DVD and BluRay:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

_*The Bash 2009 - Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio - Title vs Mask Match *****_

Never watched this match before but heard good things and it has two of my favorite in ring guys of all time.Rey has awful attire almost on Angle 2002 Summerslam levels.Get a video of an awesome Jericho spot pretending to be a Rey fan in the audience , fuck so great lol. Early back and forth to start , with Jericho going for the mask and really cool spot driving Mysterio into the side barrier.Jericho keeps ray down for a good 5 minutes and never lets him really gain momentum.Rey starts his comback and this is when the match really gets into life . Some really good spots including a really cool looking springboard and a great hurricanrana counter into the walls of Jericho.More and more awesome follows, this is just pure bliss at this point with a great code breaker spot.Really funky ending that I didn't see coming with the 2nd mask.Great story telling with Mysterio using the mask to his advantage when it had been shown to be a disadvantage.

Overall, this match was slow to get going but the last 10 or so minutes are great and they turned a somewhat dead crowd at the start into a frenzy at the end.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Zack Ryder DVD Listing said:


> Zack Ryder vs. Christian
> ECW – July 28, 2009
> 
> Zack Ryder w/ Hugh Jackman vs. Dolph Ziggler w/ Vickie Guerrero
> ...


Solid selection. Would've preferred a few more and less doc but the fact that he's getting a DVD since he's virtually off TV is good for him. I think I'll get it when it's cheap just because I'm a fan.



John Cena's DVD listing said:


> World Heavyweight Championship
> John Cena vs. Chris Jericho
> Armageddon – December 14, 2008
> 
> ...


gtfo with this one. (N)


AND FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE



Falls Count Anywhere DVD Listing said:


> Disc 1
> 
> 
> The Names May Vary
> ...


Marked for 2 Umaga matches and Shane/Test.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

John Cena is getting another DVD? Waii...

I mostly marked for Orton/Rhodes on there to be honest. Nothing else really interests me except maybe HHH/Rock FL'99 at first glance.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wild Wednesday sucks this week, so woo, saves me money lol. Those 2 Superstar sets look fucking dreadful. Guessing only collectors who must have everything and massive marks for both guys who have to have everything released on them are the only people who will buy them, because they both look like shit . FCA set does nothing for me either. TV matches are nice to see, but nothing I would go out of my way to get hold of.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I feel like that Snow/Holly match from '98 is really entertaining though. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> I feel like that Snow/Holly match from '98 is really entertaining though. :lmao


'99, learn to read :side:. If I'm not mistaken, they end up in the Mississippi River .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Are any of the other matches on the FCA set particularly must see?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> '99, learn to read :side:. If I'm not mistaken, they end up in the Mississippi River .


:$

And YES, that's the one. :lol

Edit: I'm a mark for Legacy/DX from Breaking Point.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Just ordered Unforgiven 07, No Mercy 07, Survivor Series 07, Armageddon 07, Royal Rumble 08, No Way Out 08 on DVD and Wrestlemania 24 on bluray, all for 30 quid. All cards except for Unforgiven look really good, and heard great reviews about Survivor Series and WM. Not seen any of these PPV's yet. Thoughts on these PPV's?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WM 24 is amazing. (Y)

Most of those other shows are good too besides Unforgiven (couple good midcard matches though) and No Mercy (just the main event is good, imo. Couple decent things here and there). Survivor series, Armageddon, Rumble and No Way Out are all good in my book.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I remember Unforgiven 07 being a terribly average show. Good pick up on WM24 and NWO 08. Armageddon 07 was an underrated show I thought. Michaels probably gave Kennedy his best standard match on that show. The arm/wrist injury psychology and selling from Michaels is perfect throughout the match up to the finish.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> Wild Wednesday sucks this week, so woo, saves me money lol. Those 2 Superstar sets look fucking dreadful. *Guessing only collectors who must have everything* and massive marks for both guys who have to have everything released on them are the only people who will buy them, because they both look like shit . FCA set does nothing for me either. TV matches are nice to see, but nothing I would go out of my way to get hold of.


:sad:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Your own fault!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just watched Taker/Austin for the first time in a while. It had an epic big match feel to it, and this is probably the biggest Taker/Austin match (not best though). Unfortunately the workrate suffered early in the match when Taker and Austin's heads collided, and you could see Austin especially was dazed from it. But still they did a good job, the psychology by Austin working on Taker's legs for part of the match and Taker's selling was great considering Austin didn't work on them all throughout the match and by the end was getting outmatched by Taker to the point he couldn't anymore. I especially love where Austin keeps trying to fight and does avoid some of Taker's moves towards the end, but Austin is still a lot more hurt than Taker and can't capitalize before Taker goes back to beating Austin down. The leg drop from the turnbuckle to the announce table is still sick and MSG went crazy for that (as they should've). After that it was all Taker pretty much up until the end. It's actually kind of odd watching because nowadays, if this match happened, Taker would have no doubt kicked out of the stunner, and it shows how times have changed. Back then finishers didn't get kicked out of as much in the main events at least, especially the stunner, even in big matches like this one.

The MSG crowd, while great for some cool/big spots and at the beginning when the match started out strong, really died down in the middle. The pace Taker/Austin went at after Austin and Taker's heads collided forced them to slow it down and you could tell the crowd got bored. Considering how big the match was and the hype it got, plus the anticipation to see Taker/Austin finally collide, the crowd was a bit disappointing. But I don't entirely blame them given the circumstances.

So overall, a good match with an epic big match feel to it with good, but not great crowd reactions outside of certain spots. Overall despite the fact it's not one of the best matches of all time and may even be considered a disappointment due to the hype, it was still a great match and a clash between the two biggest babyfaces at the time. 

My rating: ***3/4 (up from ***1/2)


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

I am PUMPED for RAW tonight! Yaaaa!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Arn & Windham v Doom making the set is so awesome. Great match.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

After seeing Vader on Raw tonight what are everyone's top ten Vader matches?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Hardcore Show said:


> After seeing Vader on Raw tonight what are everyone's top ten Vader matches?


I don't have a Top 10 as of right now but these are some of my faves off the top of my head (not in order)

Vader vs.

Sting - WCW Great American Bash 1992
Sting (Leather Strap Match) - WCW SuperBrawl III
Sting - WCW Starrcade 1992
Sting - WCW Slamboree 1994
Sting - WCW Fall Brawl 1994
Dustin Rhodes - WCW Clash of the Champions
Vader/Owen Hart/British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels/Sid/Ahmed Johnson - WWF International Incident 1996
Undertaker - WWF Canadian Stampede 1997
Cactus Jack (Texas Death Match) - WCW Halloween Havoc 1993
Davey Boy Smith - WCW Slamboree 1993
Vader/Rick Rude/Sid vs. Sting/Dustin Rhodes/Davey Boy Smith - WCW Clash of the Champions 
Vader & Steve Austin vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - WCW Saturday Night Nov. 1993


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

> Hardcore Championship Match
> Crash Holly vs. The Headbangers
> SmackDown – March 16, 2000


At Funtime USA? Yes! :mark:



Clique said:


> I remember Unforgiven 07 being a terribly average show.


I hated it. You probably liked Undertaker's return, but even that I didn't enjoy. Horrible main event, horrible WWE title match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What was the Title match on that show? Cena still have the belt then?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*WWE Wrestlemania 26: John Cena vs Batista ***1/2*

I remember this being a great fued partly becuase of a really awesome heel Batista character. Now niether of these guys are seen as ring generals but both have been know to be able to work a good match when the spotlight is on them.Really great video package and entrances and you really get that big match Wrestlemania feel. Batista likes ' Fishsticks' sign in the already gives this match a * . Batista starts attacking the neck of Cena and this is cool linking to the past these two have, really nice ddt counter from Batista here.Cena starts his 5 move of doom but another cool counter spine buster from Batista. The STF out of nowhere and theres really good acting here from Cena of almost sadness as Batista gets to the rope and the doubt of if he can beat him sets in .Really cool sequence from AA to Batista bomb.Batista kicks out of the AA and again good story telling with the doubt building in John Cena.Another decent counter from Cena leads to the STF and Batista taps.

Overall , hardly a classic but an enjoyable match with some really good story telling and probably the best we could expect from these two together.

:cena2 :batista3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some good matches on that FCA set, never seen a few of them including the Bret hart vs stone cold one, will look put for a UK release date I think...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Coming-Soon/page1.html?src=twit

As well as WM, SilverVision have added WWE Live in the UK: April 2012 DVD, The Best of WCW Clash of the Champions DVD & Bluray, and ECW Unreleased Vol 1 DVD & Bluray. Seems they are pretty much back on track again .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really great news, contemplating getting that ECW set when its out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I might get the live in the UK set when its released. Always like to get them, plus one of the bonus features is the main event of the first Raw taping I went to back in 2005 :mark:. I want WM on bluray at some point too, but not at THAT price.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm waiting for the new line of Tagged Classic's that is supposedly being released soon. No idea what they are/could be but I'm hoping that they are WCW PPV's.

I can dream, can't I?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

haribo said:


> I hated it. You probably liked Undertaker's return, but even that I didn't enjoy. Horrible main event, horrible WWE title match.


I loved the build up return videos and his entrance at Unforgiven '07 but the main event with Henry was awful. The crowd was dead and the chemistry wasn't there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are peoples' thoughts on the ECW: Extreme Rules 2discs DVD set?

Edit - after seeing the match listing, think I'll leave it for a bit, I do wanna tracks down copies of rise and fall of ecw and the most extreme matches DVDs...


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Baldwin. said:


> I'm waiting for the new line of Tagged Classic's that is supposedly being released soon. No idea what they are/could be but I'm hoping that they are WCW PPV's.
> 
> I can dream, can't I?


Not a chance on that one I'm afraid, they can only re-release what they already released on VHS. Anything WCW would have to come from WWE themselves.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> What are peoples' thoughts on the ECW: Extreme Rules 2discs DVD set?
> 
> Edit - after seeing the match listing, think I'll leave it for a bit, I do wanna tracks down copies of rise and fall of ecw and the most extreme matches DVDs...


The Bloodsport DVD is better imo. I picked it up from Walmart's website a few weeks ago for 5 bucks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> The Bloodsport DVD is better imo. I picked it up from Walmart's website a few weeks ago for 5 bucks.


yeah that's the one mate, its expensive over here im sure its out of production tbh, I may have to track down a region 1 copy...


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Yeah1993 said:


> What was the Title match on that show? Cena still have the belt then?


Cena got himself disqualified against Orton before even 10 minutes had passed. Could tell something shit was going to go down when it wasn't the main event. Then he went backstage and Coach booked a LMS match for No Mercy (which never happened due to Cena's injury) :lol


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U45-EPuVraw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4d7CvIjNDM

Anyone know what Shoot these are from? Probably wrong place to ask but worth a shot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Baldwin. said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U45-EPuVraw
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4d7CvIjNDM
> 
> Anyone know what Shoot these are from? Probably wrong place to ask but worth a shot.


Guest Booker with Jim Cornette http://kayfabecommentaries.com/DVD_GB_JimCornette.html .


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Cheers. Is it available to purchase in the UK at all? :/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, they have a UK site, should be a link somewhere on their US site.

Edit: http://www.kayfabecommentariesuk.com/page24.htm


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

haribo said:


> Cena got himself disqualified against Orton before even 10 minutes had passed. Could tell something shit was going to go down when it wasn't the main event. Then he went backstage and Coach booked a LMS match for No Mercy (which never happened due to Cena's injury) :lol


I wiki'd the results because I don't remember a damn thing.....and there isn't a single match on that show longer than 12 minutes. Tempted to watch it again...


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

YEAH 1993 DID YOU SEE VADER HOW AWESOME WAS THAT MAN


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Killed that southern midget. they should bring back THE PATRIOT and reform the greatest tag team of all time.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

he needed the elephant helmet with smoke


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Definitely.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

He should have brought Harley Race with him too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was thinking to myself, what would be the greatest ONE-TWO punches to ever end a PPV ? Meaning two consecutive matches to end a PPV, what's the best combo ever. Well, IMO here are a few:

ONO 1997: (Hart-Taker: **** 1/2 , Michaels-Bulldog: ****)
FL 2000: (HHH-Jericho: **** 3/4 , Rock-Benoit: ****)
WM X-7: (HHH-Taker: **** , Rock-Austin: **** 3/4)
WM XIX: (Rock-Austin: **** 1/4 , Lesnar-Angle: **** 1/4)


My personal favourite would be ONO 1997, as I believe it's the most underrated PPV ever and easily a Top 10 WWE PPV of all time. Thoughts/Opinions ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally bought the Mick Foley Greatest Hits and Misses: Hardcore Edition Dvd, really looking forward to watching it, the match listing alone looks fantastic imo.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Finally bought the Mick Foley Greatest Hits and Misses: Hardcore Edition Dvd, really looking forward to watching it, the match listing alone looks fantastic imo.


How much did you pay for it?

I've been wanting to pick this up for a while, but i can't find it anywhere at a reasonable price.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> How much did you pay for it?
> 
> I've been wanting to pick this up for a while, but i can't find it anywhere at a reasonable price.


I picked up the region 1 from amazon, not sure how much it worked out as but it was under a tenner.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley 3 disc set it awesome, glad I got it year ago, picked it up for a fiver . Can't believe how much it is on SilverVision right now . You can get it for £11.49 on Amazon just now which is a good price for a 3 disc set after all.

Extreme Rules DVD 7 Bluray up for pre-order on SV now too. Bluray extras suck which is a shame. Will definitely pick it up at some point though for Sheamus/Bryan and Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SV will probably have that Foley set on a wild Wednesday offer soon enough tbh, I do love SV for thier selection of DVDs, but some are priced way too much, like the 2 disc Brian Pillman set im sure its £21.99, same for a ric flair set too, way over the top.

Gonna be getting extreme rules though, loved the whole event.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seems they like making some of the older sets really expensive while making brand new PPV's like, £5 in a sale a couple of months after they come out . Crazy that way lol.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Lesnar's return not on the BR extras


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Foley 3 disc set it awesome, glad I got it year ago, picked it up for a fiver . Can't believe how much it is on SilverVision right now . You can get it for £11.49 on Amazon just now which is a good price for a 3 disc set after all.


Thanks for that, i'll definitely get it at that price.


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

Any opinions on the king of the ring set which is the wild wednesday. im thinking of picking it up.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I was thinking to myself, what would be the greatest ONE-TWO punches to ever end a PPV ? Meaning two consecutive matches to end a PPV, what's the best combo ever.


SummerSlam 2011 - Christian vs. Randy Orton - ****1/4, John Cena vs. CM Punk - ****

No Mercy 2008 - Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy - ****, Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - ****

Backlash 2008 - The Undertaker vs. Edge - ****, Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. JBL vs. John Cena - ****

Backlash 2007 - The Undertaker vs. Batista - ****, John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton - ****

Royal Rumble 2007 - John Cena vs. Umaga - ****1/2, Royal Rumble match - No rating, but my favorite in IMO the best RR ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/Undertaker-The-Streak-Blu-ray-3-Discs.html :mark:

Disc 1 is just a documentary (then bluray bonus which is just video packages for a handful of matches)? Should be very interesting to see how it turns out, since I'm not expecting 'Taker to actually be part of the documentary. I shall be pre-ordering this once I get some money (planning to bet on NWO this weekend, and hopefully made a small amount of spare cash from it ).


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

:mark::mark::mark:

*off to pre-order*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingCal said:


> http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/Undertaker-The-Streak-Blu-ray-3-Discs.html :mark:
> 
> Disc 1 is just a documentary (then bluray bonus which is just video packages for a handful of matches)? Should be very interesting to see how it turns out, since I'm not expecting 'Taker to actually be part of the documentary. I shall be pre-ordering this once I get some money (planning to bet on NWO this weekend, and hopefully made a small amount of spare cash from it ).


:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:

I am definitely getting that!


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Ha, hopefully means he is done. End at 20, perfect.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Word said:


> Ha, hopefully means he is done. End at 20, perfect.


I hope not. When Taker leaves (if he hasnt already) he deserves to be spotlighted and not leave in a group.

It kinda pisses me off that the Taker DVD has a documantary as I might have to buy it even though I own nearly all of the matches on the set.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Word said:


> Ha, hopefully means he is done. End at 20, perfect.


If he gets to 25 they will release another set at 25-0 just like they did 15-0. :lol 

Plus, I'm still waiting for my extensive Taker documentary with him talking *out of character* about his career/life. That "This Is My Yard" doc. was too brief.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have all the matches on disc, I'm mainly buying for the Bluray quality upgrade of the older ones. And the documentary. And the fact its about The Undertaker. Ok, I was sold on the set the moment I knew it was for Undertaker .


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey, I'm currently attempting to watch everything from '97 forward (currently at WM15) - interested in having a brief recap of 93 to 97. Would you guys recommend Best of RAW - Seasons 1 & 2?


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Watched Royal Rumble 2003, great fun show to watch. 

Fun start watching Lesnar throw Big Show around the ring like hes a cruiserweight.
Steiner v HHH is a horrible wrestling match, but I always have fun watching Flair ringside and the crowd during this match.
Angle/Benoit was incredible, such a rewatchable match.

And the Royal Rumble was fun fun fun. Lesnar, Kane, Taker and Batista as the final four was not only fun but for once in a rumble believable that 4 monsters finally lasted to the end. The Jericho/Michaels stuff was awesome.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Not as excited about the 'Taker dvd as I think I should be. I know the documentary won't really feature him and just have a voiceover guy and other wrestlers discussing him. Looks brief as well by the amount of chapters there are.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have to ask this question... Will disc four on the new "Streak" DVD potentially be the greatest disc (match-quality wise) of all time ? Think about it, we have 4 MOTY's on one disc, I don't think it gets any better than that. 

If not, then what is ?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I recomend anybody to do what i am doing at the moment; go on to youtube and watch full shows of Superstars, more specifically the 2009-mid 2011 episodes. I guarantee that every so often you'll stumble across a great match between people you wouldn't really expect it from and it can provide some great entertainment. A perfect example would be the often highly-rated match between Masters and McIntyre in 2011 - Who would have expected them two to be so great? Or that 6-man tag team match that everybody loves with The Usos/Barretta vs. Kidd/Slater/Gabriel. 

Some very good matches, with a lot of variety. There's also some gems from mid 2011-present but over time it's dwindeled down to the lower-midcard show, unfortunately (or in some cases, fortunately, as there are great matches still).

So that leads me t my question; What's your favourite match from Superstars? I can see Masters/McIntyre being a lot of people's favourite, but still. Mine personally would be the aforementioned 6 man tag team match, it really defied the formulaic tag team structure that the WWE has created over the past decade and has shown the world that there is real talent in the midcard. (Where the fuck is Barretta, by the way, dude was awesome).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Superstars used to have plenty of awesome little matches. Masters, McIntyre, Barretta, Knox etc were putting on at least one great match every week. Once Masters left I really lost interest in the show, but I check the taped matches every week to see if anything interests me. Rarely does unfortunately .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I don't have a Top 10 as of right now but these are some of my faves off the top of my head (not in order)
> 
> Vader vs.
> 
> ...


I've always wanted to see some of Vaders' Japan matches.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The recent Christian/McIntrye match on Superstars was great , easily ppv quality.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The 2010 Superstars set I have has some really fun Ziggler matches on it.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

jblvdx said:


> I hope not. When Taker leaves (if he hasnt already) he deserves to be spotlighted and not leave in a group.
> 
> It kinda pisses me off that the Taker DVD has a documantary as I might have to buy it even though I own nearly all of the matches on the set.


Yeah if that was his last, was a weak way to go, that's why people don't think he's done.



Clique said:


> If he gets to 25 they will release another set at 25-0 just like they did 15-0. :lol
> 
> Plus, I'm still waiting for my extensive Taker documentary with him talking *out of character* about his career/life. That "This Is My Yard" doc. was too brief.


This is my worry, has he really got another 5 in him? I don't think so. I hope it's the end for him but I feel he's only got another 2 mania matches left in him thus making this DVD pointless.

A simple way of making money, and say if he only has 1 left in him, they'll no doubt bring out 21-0 set.

Most of his Mania matches are garbage too. Only get interesting after WM X7 and even then there is a lot of shit after that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't say most of them are garbage:

WM 7 & 8 were both really short, too short to really be good or bad. Match with Roberts was about as good as it could be given the time and gimmick restrictions tbh.

WM 9... they tell a nice story, but its still not good. Best that could be done given his opponent, but still not good lol.

WM 11... short and shitty.

WM 12 with Diesel is really good imo, and by FAR the MOTN for that show.

WM 13 with Sid is underrated imo. Good, with the only real complaint being its too long. Shave 10 minutes from it and it would have been really good tbh.

WM 14 with Kane is awesome, and MOTN.

WM 15 didn't happen. Fuck off. Go away. Worst Undertaker match of all time.

WM 17 with HHH is great.

WM 18 with Flair is great.

WM 19 with Show/A-Train is solid. Nothing special, but not bad.

WM 20 with Kane is ok, has his return as the Dead Man which helps it out a lot.

WM 21 with Orton is a classic.

WM 22 with Henry is decentish.

WM 23 with Batista is a classic and MOTN.

WM 24 with Edge is a classic and MOTN.

WM 25 with HBK is a ***** classic and MOTN + Y

WM 26 with HBK is a ***** classic and MOTN + Y

WM 27 with HHH is a classic and MOTN + Y

WM 28 with HHH is a classic and MOTN + Y

Pretty great WM résumé overall imo (better than HBK's for me too), with only a couple of matches really being bad.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

> WM 15 didn't happen. Fuck off. Go away. Worst Undertaker match of all time.


Fucking dreadful.

I love Taker's Mania matches but I don't know if I'd want the DVD since I have Taker/Trips x3, Taker/HBK x2, Taker/Orton, Taker/Kane x2, Taker/Edge, Taker/Henry and Taker vs Albert/Show. So the only match I'd really want it for is Taker/Flair and perhaps Taker/Diesel. I think I've seen Taker/Sid and didn't care for it much but I really can't remember.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Anybody think that the best of Raw & SD 2011 Blu Ray for £20+ is worth it? i've had a look and a lot interests me just not sure if i'm willing to part with that amount unless it is superb.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye said:


> Fucking dreadful.
> 
> I love Taker's Mania matches but I don't know if I'd want the DVD since I have Taker/Trips x3, Taker/HBK x2, Taker/Orton, Taker/Kane x2, Taker/Edge, Taker/Henry and Taker vs Albert/Show. So the only match I'd really want it for is Taker/Flair and perhaps *Taker/Diesel.* I think I've seen Taker/Sid and didn't care for it much but I really can't remember.












I _highly_ recommend this DVD. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

^^^ That is one of, if not, my favourite DVD, excellent.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

just snapped up WM 26 blu ray for a fiver so pretty chuffed!

gonna wait for a price drop on raw & sd best of 2011.

couldn't resist cex for these deals, they had best of raw 2009 for £6 blu ray and Elimination Chamber 2012 blu ray for £6 also.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, wait a while and it'll either be on a big sale on SV or part of a Wild Wednesday for like, £7.99. That's where I've picked up most of my blurays lately lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of 'the streak', I still vividly remember Taker's first Mania vs Snuka, being 10 at the time, I didn't have much knowledge of how good or big of a star Snuka really was tbh, but as soon as Taker came down I was like whoa,

I know its a squash match but I still love the debut, and I know alot of people who diminish the original Undertaker look, but I still love it, and a couple of years ago I wanted him to be that old Taker fir one more match, Paul Bearer et all, and the funeral parlour was great,

Probably just me though lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> Plus, I'm still waiting for my extensive *HHH* documentary with him talking *out of character* about his career/life because he hasn't had a proper DVD set in 5 fucking years!


I know how you feel lol.  Still waiting on that Trips DVD, a proper one with a documentary and not just matches like the last one back in 2007. It has been removed from the list twice now iirc. Fucking rage lol.


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

When is JBL ever going to get a DVD set?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

JBL doesn't need a set.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know what ? I thought about something recently that caught my attention. 

(This is all just my opinion BTW) at No Way Out 2006, Kurt Angle and the Undertaker wrestled a **** 3/4 match, and the MOTY IMO. It wasn't until THREE YEARS LATER at Wrestlemania XXV when The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels delivered a ***** classic that we got another **** 3/4 encounter. That's a REAAAAALLYYY long time in between matches.

Just think about this year; I'd put both the WM XXVIII HIAC and the Punk-Bryan match from OTL at **** 3/4 , and it's only been a few months. Just a random thought how rare are **** 3/4 exactly in your mind ? 

***** 3/4+ matches from 2002-Present (IMO)*

NM 2002 Tag
Brock vs Taker HIAC
Eddie vs Brock NWO 04
HHH vs HBK vs Benoit WM XX
HHH vs Batista Ven 05
Taker vs Angle NWO 06
Taker vs Michaels WM XXV
Taker vs Michaels WM XXVI
Taker vs HHH WM XXVII
Cena vs Punk MITB 2011
Taker vs HHH WM XXVIII
Punk vs Bryan OTL 2012

That's 12 matches in 10 years. Undertaker is in SIX of them, which is insane considering that you can argue that he has another two matches with Kurt Angle that are **** 3/4 encounters as well. HHH could easily have 6 as well (in some people's eyes). That makes the odds of seeing another **** 3/4 match this year very, very slim. So we might as well start the argument; What's the TRUE match of 2012 ?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^Pretty nice list. Not sure on all matches, but here's what I know for sure I have at ****3/4+ since 2002:

Taker/Lesnar NM02 HIAC 
Angle/Benoit RR03 (*****)
HBK/Jericho WM19 
Taker/Angle SD03 (*****)
Lesnar/Angle SD03 Ironman
Taker/Angle NWO06 (*****)
Taker/Edge SS08 HIAC
Taker/Michaels WM25 (*****)
Punk/Bryan OTL12 (*****)

(Obviously if match rating is not in parenthesis, it's ****3/4 for me) 

9 matches. I do lol that I have more ***** matches than ****3/4, though that might change as I'm highly considering taking Taker/Angle SD03 back to ****3/4. The match itself is a worthy *****, but the ending just irks me more and more the more I think about it. I'm gonna give it a rewatch one of these days and decide then... even though I just watched it a short time ago. 

I'll also do ****1/2, since I consider that to be classic level matches as well (off the top of my head):

Undertaker/Rock/Angle Vengeance 02
HBK/HHH SS02
NM02 Tag
EC SS02
Rock/Austin WM19
HBK/Benoit/HHH WM20
HBK/Benoit Raw Showdown in the Desert (I think that was the tagline... and I don't necessarily have it at ****1/2, but it's one of those matches I remember being awesome and feel it's worth and mention and that it could be ****1/2 after I rewatch it. Haven't seen it in years)
HBK/Angle WM21
HBK/Benjamin Raw 05 Gold Rush
Batista/HHH Vengeance 05 HIAC
Edge/Matt Hardy Unforgiven 05 Cage (recently re-watched it and clocked it in at ****1/2. Best cage match I've ever seen imo)
Cena/Umaga RR07
Undertaker/Batista WM23
HBK/Cena Raw in London 07
Jericho/Mysterio Bash 09
Taker/HBK WM26
Punk/Cena MITB 11
Punk/Jericho WM28

That's just off the top of my head as well. I'm sure I've forgotten some matches, but that's a pretty nice list of ****1/2+ matches since 02 if I do say so myself. There's a ton of ****1/4 matches as well I could think of that are just borderline classic... but that would be too long to make right now. 



> So we might as well start the argument; What's the TRUE match of 2012 ?


What's the argument? It's Punk/Bryan OTL by a country mile. 

Oh right... people put Taker/HHH HIAC on that classic level as well...

I really don't feel like arguing this though, again, since I'd just be stating the reasons why I loved Punk/Bryan and why I did like, but not love Taker/HHH that I've stated about a bajillion times in the past two months.

If I see anything I want to refute/argue/etc., THEN I SHALL!


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

WWE wise, MOTY is Punk/Bryan from OTL with Lesnar/Cena closely behind it. Granted Lesnar/Cena wasn't a ****3/4-***** classic but, it's uniqueness made the match that much more enjoyable.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Thinking about it...

_**** 3/4 matches since the Brand Split_:

*- Michaels/Hunter @ SummerSlam 2002*
- Angle-Benoit/Edge-Mysterio @ No Mercy 2002
- Angle/Benoit @ Royal Rumble 2003
- Angle/Michaels @ WrestleMania 21
- Batista/Hunter @ Vengeance 2005
- Angle/Undertaker @ No Way Out 2006
- Jericho/Michaels @ No Mercy 2008
- Undertaker/Michaels @ WrestleMania 25
- Punk/Cena @ MITB 2011
- Undertaker/Hunter @ WrestleMania 28

Wow, Angle has 4 matches. Riot! The bolded one is my fav of the lot.

_5-star matches since then_:

- Benoit/Hunter/Michaels @ WrestleMania XX
- Undertaker/Michaels @ WrestleMania XXVI
- Undertaker/Hunter @ WrestleMania XXVII

So, all matches include either Michaels or Hunter. Cool.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

popped in CEX earlier picked up Wrestlemania 21 3 Disc DVD, only £3.00 perfect condition, trying to collect some manias from 18 onwards, some are expensive though I've found..


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> ***** 3/4 matches from 2002-Present (IMO)*


Angle/Benoit vs. Mysterio/Edge NM 02
Brock vs Taker HIAC NM 02
Angle vs. Benoit RR 03
HHH vs HBK vs Benoit WM XX
Angle vs. Michaels WM 21
Angle vs. Taker NWO 06
End of an Era WM XXVIII


*5 star*

Taker vs Michaels WM XXV
Taker vs Michaels WM XXVI


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

Lazyking said:


> JBL doesn't need a set.


The hell he doesn't. He definitely should have gotten one before Morrison did.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think a 2-disc set for JBL would be fine (ala Benoit and Perfect although they could have been longer). One disc for documentary + promos/segments and one disc for matches.

Possible matches that could be included:

APA Bar Room Brawl - Vengeance 03
JBL/Eddie - JD 04
JBL/Eddie - GAB 04
JBL/Taker Last Ride Match - No Mercy 04
JBL/Eddie/Taker/Booker - Armageddon 04
JBL/Angle LMS - SD 05
JBL/Show/Angle - Royal Rumble 05
JBL/Show Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match - NWO 05
JBL/Cena I Quit Match - JD 05
JBL/Mysterio - JD 06
JBL/Jericho - Royal Rumble 08
JBL/HBK - NWO 09
JBL/Mysterio - WM25


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zep81 said:


> I remember seeing a best of Sting in Japan 2 disc set somewhere, could someone who may have it hook me up with as copy please (pm) thankyou for any help.





TaylorFitz said:


> http://www.highspots.com/p/20614.html
> 
> I think that's the one your talking about. If you go to IVP videos you might also be able to find some sets of Sting in Japan for a lot less than the one highspots has.


Got the 2 Disc Set now thanks to Seabs (Y)


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Ever Wolf said:


> Anybody think that the best of Raw & SD 2011 Blu Ray for £20+ is worth it? i've had a look and a lot interests me just not sure if i'm willing to part with that amount unless it is superb.


One of the most consistent sets ever produced. Classic moments aplenty, heated segments that build matches and make characters matter, plus a treasure trove of good matches. Highest recommendation possible.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

What would you people say are the top five gimmick and non gimmick matches for the last decacde (2000-2010)?

Gimmick, I'd go (in no order of course)
-Benoit vs Jericho, ladder
-Triple H vs Batista, cell
-Edge vs Undertaker, cell
-TLC I
-tie between Triple H vs Foley street fight and Edge vs Hardy cage match

Non gimmick, maybe:
-Benoit vs Angle, Royal Rumble
-Edge and Rey Mysterio vs Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit, No Mercy

that's off the top of my head, the other three are really close and I don't quite know yet


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Gimmicks:

1) Foley/HHH RR00 Street Fight
2) Taker/Lesnar NM02 HIAC
3) Lesnar/Angle SD Ironman
4) Taker/Edge SS08 HIAC
5) Edge/Hardy Unforgiven 05 Cage

Non-Gimmick:

1) Angle/Benoit RR03
2) Taker/HBK WM25
3) Taker/Angle NWO06
4) Taker/Angle SD03
5) Taker/Batista WM23

The last match on both lists I just picked out based on what I liked the most out of the ****1/2 matches.

Combined I'd put the order in:

1) Angle/Benoit RR03
2) Taker/HBK WM25
3) Taker/Angle NWO06
4) Foley/HHH RR00
5) Taker/Angle SD03
6) Taker/Lesnar NM02
7) Lesnar/Angle SD Ironman
8) Taker/Edge SS08
9) Taker/Batista WM23
10) Edge/M. Hardy Unforgiven 05


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gimmick:
Umaga/Cena - LMS
TLC I
Jericho/HBK - Ladder
Edge/Taker HIAC
Batista/Trips - HIAC

Non-Gimmick
Benoit/Trips/HBK
Taker/HBK - WM 26
Jericho/HBK - WM XIX
Angle/Benoit - RR '03
Finlay/Benoit - JD '06

And if the triple threat doesn't count, Batista/Taker WM 23.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Strictly Singles(off the top of my head, so excuse me)..

*Gimmick:*

HHH vs Foley RR 00
HHH vs Batista VEN 05
Undertaker vs Brock NM 02
HHH vs SCSA NWO 01
Cena vs Umaga RR 07 (not sure on this one)


*Non Gimmick:*

Michaels vs Taker WM XXV
Michaels vs Taker WM XXVI
Angle vs Taker NWO 06
Angle vs Benoit RR 03
Angle vs Michaels VEN 05


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Which match do you guys think that this forum overrates more than any?


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Coolquip said:


> Which match do you guys think that this forum overrates more than any?


Ask me last year I would of said this match. Now, I'm not sure.

*Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - WWE Wrestlemania XXVI*
_Worked in your typical WWE main event style but with a lot of extras thrown in. Michaels really embraces the fact that pro-wrestling is fake and bumps all over the place but not once did it look stupid or out-of-place. Undertaker also does one of the most convincing sell-jobs of a leg injuries I think I've ever seen. Even when I watched this as a 17 year old smark (or so I thought...) back in 2010, I thought Undertaker was seriously hurt. Anything or anyone in pro-wrestling that can twist and play on my emotions like that deserves major credit. However, when I first saw this I thought it turned into a finsherfest. This viewing however, I didn't think the match went into overkill levels of finisher-trading. The ending is fucking epic. We've all seen the clip of a half-dead HBK mocking Undertaker's taunt before getting tombstoned into oblivion. Such an iconic ending. _
*Rating: ★★★★★*


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Coolquip said:


> Which match do you guys think that this forum overrates more than any?


- Taker/HBK from WM25
- HHH/Foley from No Way Out 2000
- HBK/Hart from WM12
- Taker/Batista from WM23


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not really crazy about Punk/Bryan. It was MOTY on a technical level I suppose, but I'd only put it at ***1/2. Taker/HHH, Lesnar/Cena, and Punk/Jericho at ER were all much more captivating for me. *Kanye shrug* :kanye2


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Cena/Punk for me is the most overrated.great match but not a 5 star match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Coolquip said:


> Which match do you guys think that this forum overrates more than any?


A year ago I would've 100% said Taker/HHH WM27. Great match but nowhere near the classic level people talk imo. Now it's either that or their match at WM28. The WM28 match is considerably better imo than WM27, but I still wouldn't put it anywhere near ***** or even ****1/2 (classic level). I wouldn't even put either match as MOTN at their respective Manias... but that's a whole other issue.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Coolquip said:


> Which match do you guys think that this forum overrates more than any?


Undertaker/Triple H from last year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Bret Iron Man. Its a lengthy pile of shit with awful to non existent selling and clear stalling to take up time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/Angle is probably more overrated than anything to me. I don't think they ever had a good match together.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

KingCal said:


> HBK/Bret Iron Man. Its a lengthy pile of shit with awful to non existent selling and clear stalling to take up time.


I agree with you the match was boring as hell.


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

Thinking of getting some WWE DVDs off of Amazon. Are there any you guys would recommend?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If you're a Rey fan without the Biggest Little Man DVD that should be your first buy.


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> If you're a Rey fan without the Biggest Little Man DVD that should be your first buy.


I am a Rey fan, so thanks for the suggestion. Any others?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I love the Ricky Steamboat dvd. Pick that one up if you haven't got it already.


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I love the Ricky Steamboat dvd. Pick that one up if you haven't got it already.


Thanks. I'll look it up on Amazon and see how much it is.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

AirTroublein619 said:


> Thinking of getting some WWE DVDs off of Amazon. Are there any you guys would recommend?


Ultimate Ric Flair Collection
Bret Hart: The Best There Is ...
Tombstone - The History of the Undertaker 
Rise & Fall of ECW
Rey Mysterio: The Biggest Little Man
From The Vault - Shawn Michaels 
Eddie Guerrero: Viva La Raza ...
Mick Foley Greatest Hits & Misses
The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin


----------



## Evolution (Sep 23, 2005)

Obis said:


> A year ago I would've 100% said Taker/HHH WM27. Great match but nowhere near the classic level people talk imo. Now it's either that or their match at WM28. The WM28 match is considerably better imo than WM27, but I still wouldn't put it anywhere near ***** or even ****1/2 (classic level). I wouldn't even put either match as MOTN at their respective Manias... but that's a whole other issue.


I don't understand people that rate the Taker/HHH match from last year so highly when this years was vastly better in terms of story-telling and last year was just a finisher-fest. I almost find it amusing that the vastly better wrestling match was inside Hell In A Cell. You could tell that the previous years Wrestlemania took it out of both of them and I think for the most part this year they wrestled a much smarter match in terms of telling a story while also performing a more age-appropriate match for them both.


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

Clique said:


> Ultimate Ric Flair Collection
> Bret Hart: The Best There Is ...
> Tombstone - The History of the Undertaker
> Rise & Fall of ECW
> ...


Wow. Thanks man. All of these DVDs sound great. I'll pick a couple of these to buy. Thanks again.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

AirTroublein619 said:


> Wow. Thanks man. All of these DVDs sound great. I'll pick a couple of these to buy. Thanks again.


Here are more that either have great documentary, matches, segments and/or just plain FUN:

The Shawn Michaels Story - Heartbreak & Triumph 
Greatest Rivalries - Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart
Ric Flair & The Four Horsemen 
Nature Boy Ric Flair - The Definitive Collection
The Triumph and Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling
The History of the World Heavyweight Championship 
The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

Clique said:


> Here are more that either have great documentary, matches, segments and/or just plain FUN:
> 
> The Shawn Michaels Story - Heartbreak & Triumph
> Greatest Rivalries - Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart
> ...


I found three on Amazon that are relatively cheap. Thanks for the ideas.

The ones I picked were: Money in the Bank 2011, Edge: A Decade of Decadence, and The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Who was Bret Hart's opponent in the Raw cage match where he did his 'im being screwed' rant?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Who was Bret Hart's opponent in the Raw cage match where he did his 'im being screwed' rant?


Psycho Sid?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> Psycho Sid?


yeah that's the one, thanks mate, I couldn't for the life of me remember who.


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

I wish Stone Cold would get another 3 disc set. Legacy of Stone Cold was decent but it was leaving out a lot of his good stuff. Hopefully the next one can sneak in his matches with Beniot in 01 without labeling them on the DVD but that's just blissful dreaming.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

I'll agree with Taker/HHH from 27 and Bret/Shawn from 12 

Personally, Shawn and Razors second ladder match gets WAAAAAAY to much love. It's clear they're just trying to play off the nostalgia of the first match


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Unfortunately, I've missed out on almost all of Shelton Benjamin's work from 07-09, or I don't remember a lot of it. What would you guys recommend?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

How dare you insult Taker-HHH from WM XXVII. It's an all time classic that told a simple, but very concise story. I can understand that people wouldn't like it because of the dead spots, but I just believe that it adds to the atmosphere of the match itself.

I know everyone probably won't agree to my very brief response, but it's just how I feel and I'm sure that there are alot of people who DO in fact agree with me.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> How dare you insult Taker-HHH from WM XXVII. It's an all time classic that told a simple, but very concise story. I can understand that people wouldn't like it because of the dead spots, but I just believe that it adds to the atmosphere of the match itself.
> 
> I know everyone probably won't agree to my very brief response, but it's just how I feel and I'm sure that there are alot of people who DO in fact agree with me.


Well to me the match was hurt before the match started. The build-up was GOD AWFUL. It was obvious both were intended for other things at Mania. It definitely helps when I'm invested in a match. 

Secondly, if they would've done it with someone besides HHH it would have been far more exiting. Ex: When HHH kicked out of the Tombstone, I knew it was coming, HHH is a WWE Legend, course he's kicking out. As opposed to if a guy like Barrett did it would get
the guy incredibly over. 

I also never thought HHH was going to win, after shitty hype and the fact it would do nothing for him. 

Plus, WWE refused to admit they had a match before!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The only thing I think that really gives the Taker/HHH WM27 match an epic *moment* is the tombstone by HHH and Taker kicking out. I was worried personally after the third pedigree, but after that tombstone was over, if I could stop time and go bet on Taker kicking out or not, I would've bet he wouldn't. It just seemed like the perfect way to end the streak, even if HHH wasn't the right person.

But that moment, with the crowd is an epic moment, and I guess to be fair a lot of the match was building up to that. But the match itself, while telling a great story, just isn't enough to get me to like it when the action pretty much halts half way through, and even before that it was nothing "classic" imo. 

I honestly don't think either Taker/HHH matches deserve to be called a classic, just great matches... the cell more so. I can however understand to some extent the cell match being called a classic. The WM27 match... I didn't understand a year ago and don't understand now. But hey, if you liked it more K1ngofK1ngs than anyone else, then more power to ya!


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What you guys think of this sweet little match:






I remember the series they had last year and this is a very decent little match between the two. Kind of missing Trent at the moment don't know where he is. Would love to see him wrestle again.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

New Taker DVD said:


> DISC 1
> 
> The Beginning
> 
> ...


Looks like the whole first disc is a doc. Could be interesting. (Y)


----------



## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

i just ripped open my ECW Unreleased dvd set and watched the Dean Malenko-Eddie Guerrero TV Title Rematch. The match was really good, but dear god did that a-hole fan at the bottom of the screen completely distract from the match. He stood up for the whole match when everyone else was sitting down, he had his shirt off, had weird braided hair, had his girlfriend stand next to him the whole time, and he turned around after almost every other move to interact with the crowd. like he was trying to make himself part of the show. it fucking worked because he was impossible to ignore and probably the most obnoxious fan i've ever seen if he was just a fan. I'm still not sure if he was a wrestler or just a fan, but holy fuck was he annoying. i have never in my entire life had a match ruined by someone in the audience just bugging the fuck out of me when i'm watching it on tv at home.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If it's the guy I'm thinking of, that dude shows up A LOT in ECW. Really passionate about everyone chanting 'ECW' and stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Looks like the whole first disc is a doc. Could be interesting. (Y)


Not any more, SilverVision has the DVD listed as 3 discs now instead of 4, Bluray as 2 instead of 3, matches on the first disc of both sets .


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

About to watch Summerslam 07 for the first time...looks a terrible card.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And its a terrible event .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Anybody got stars for vengeance 2011?

cena/del rio looks interesting what with the ring being broke and all whilst punk&trip/miz&truth looks okay.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Air Boom V Zig Zag Paddy Swagg - *** (really fun opener)
Ziggler Vs Zack - 1/2*
Beth Vs Eve - ** (I *think* anyway. I don't keep track of women's matches at all, but I do seem to recall this being pretty good)
Sheamus Vs Christian - **1/2 (never really got started, Christian wasn't able to establish control at all)
HHH/Punk Vs Miz/Truth - ** (Miz & Truth are just terrible, HHH adds nothing, Punk tries his best)
Orton Vs Rhodes - ***
Henry Vs Big Show - ***1/4 (really fun match from these two once again, finish was awesome)
Cena Vs Del Rio - ***3/4 (really crazy, fun and unique match. The fact it happened AFTER the ring breaking made it so much more interesting)


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Jingoro said:


> i just ripped open my ECW Unreleased dvd set and watched the Dean Malenko-Eddie Guerrero TV Title Rematch. The match was really good, but dear god did that a-hole fan at the bottom of the screen completely distract from the match. He stood up for the whole match when everyone else was sitting down, he had his shirt off, had weird braided hair, had his girlfriend stand next to him the whole time, and he turned around after almost every other move to interact with the crowd. like he was trying to make himself part of the show. it fucking worked because he was impossible to ignore and probably the most obnoxious fan i've ever seen if he was just a fan. I'm still not sure if he was a wrestler or just a fan, but holy fuck was he annoying. i have never in my entire life had a match ruined by someone in the audience just bugging the fuck out of me when i'm watching it on tv at home.


So I wasn't alone lol. That dude was center mass and completely distracting but it was a very good match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Not any more, SilverVision has the DVD listed as 3 discs now instead of 4, Bluray as 2 instead of 3, matches on the first disc of both sets .


Damn. :sad:

Just ordered Over The Limit and Extreme Rules from this year for a combined $25. (Y)

And I happened to have a $25 gift card.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Extreme Rules 2012*

_Randy Orton vs Kane : Falls Count Anywhere_

Rematch of the decent Wrestlemania encounter between these two here. These two work together decently enough, as Kane is a good enough worker to mesh with Orton's easily adaptable style. I didn't like the brawling much at the beginning of the match as I felt it was slow and tedious, but the incorporation of the lead pipe made the pace a little better, the action a little more exciting, and it made the match a hell of alot more entertaining. From here we move on out to the crowd where the match really picked up, from there on out it's your standard brawl through the crowd and up the stairs until we get to the backstage area.

Once we get backstage this match really starts to get good as we get a glimpse of two of these fighting in the locker room (we also get a failed Zack Ryder appearance), and some of the things that these two do backstage gets a little, but not too creative. We then end out back to the ring where we get a few good near falls and a victory for Orton. I liked this more than what I thought was a good Wrestlemania encounter. I thought the stipulation really added to the match and upped it's value, and I loved the backstage element and the nearfalls. The best possible choice for an opener, and a fantastic opener all around.

**** 1/4*

_Brodus Clay vs Dolph Ziggler_

Oh Dolph, you went from a great series of matches with Punk...To THIS ? Anyways, although this is Clay's first real challenge as a member of the WWE roster, there isn't much to this one. Dolph bumps all around the ring for Brodus and makes him look absolutely fantastic, but in the end this was just another Brodus Clay "showcase", and I say that very loosely because I'm not a big fan of the Funkasaurus gimmick, or even Brodus Clay himself as a worker. Some of Clay's moves however, look very good when performed to Dolph because Dolph knows how to sell them better than most wrestlers. Not much to say about this one, it's about 5 minutes of MEH stuff.

** 1/2*

_IC Championship : Big Show(c) vs Cody Rhodes : Tables Match_

This is a rematch from a very basic match between these two men at Wrestlemania. I like the basic story in this one : How in the bloody fuck is Cody Rhodes going to put Big Show through a table ? This match is only a few minutes long and it basically works like this ; Show beats Cody Rhodes down, Rhodes gets an absolutely BEAUTIFUL counter off the beautiful disaster kick to take charge of this for a short period of time, and Big Show accidentally goes through a table to end this one. That's basically the entire match summed up in once second. It was short and decent with a very creative ending, and it was better than the Mania match. Watch this however, for the post match beatdown that Show gives to Rhodes. That in itself is worth turning on this match for, I promise you ! 

****

_WHC : Sheamus(c) vs Daniel Bryan : 2/3 Falls_

This is the match that has been in the making for over one year. We were screwed out of this match at both Wrestlemania 27 AND Wrestlemania 28, but with a 2/3 falls stipulation, we knew there was no possible way that WWE could fuck this up on their own. We would FINALLY get to see these two men go at it, and DAMN did they exceed expectations. These two delivered over 20 minutes of action, which was chocked full of psychology and limb work, great selling, great workrate and various holds being utilized, and a good story that was being told. I love the dynamic of not having a single fall until about 15 minutes in, as it makes Sheamus look more like a fluke for the time being, and since that particular fall was a DQ, it makes Bryan look like a cerebral assassin with a beautiful gameplan to take out Sheamus's arm. Sheamus sells the arm fairly well, with there only being one instance that I can recall where he uses it in action again. On a random note; Sheamus uses a TEXAS CLOVERLEAF, that is all kinds of awesome. Bryan's kicks are just too sweet.

So yeah, I love this match. The first fall focuses on just some kick ass wrestling holds and sequences, and some beautiful arm work and selling. After the first fall however, the story kicks up and Bryan makes Sheamus pass out to the YES lock. I would have preferred that Sheamus tap out, but I guess they want to protect him, so that's okay. Then we're locked up at 1-1 and Sheamus looks like he's out, only to land a Brogue kick that Bryan KICKS OUT OF. I seriously thought it was over there, what a fantastic near fall. Second brogue kick puts Bryan down for good. Wow, what a match. These two really CAN go and I hope over the years that these two gets numerous PPV matches. So many amazing things to say about this encounter, one of the finest WRESTLING matches that I've seen in years. Sheamus's best WWE match, and Bryan's best WWE match (well...until a few weeks later, but I'll get to that in a week or so). Watch this.

***** 1/2*

_Ryback vs Jobbers_

Giving the crowd some time to die down after that amazing match that we just witnessed. The jobbers actually get MIC TIME, which amazes me and kind of makes me laugh. One of the jobbers is about 100 pounds, so what do you think happens in this one ? If you don't already know, then fuck you haha. Love the GOLDBERG chants, and I love Ryback's intensity all the time, the guy seems like he's always constantly on the edge. Ryback destroys these two to segway us into the second of 3 main events, I can't rate this obviously.

*N/A (Squash)*

_WWE Championship : CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho : Chicago Street Fight_

The second of our three main events, and a rematch to IMO the second greatest WWE championship match to ever take place at a Wrestlemania. The crowd is insane here for Punk (the hometown boy), as this is the perfect blow-off match to a feud filled with intensity and psychological warfare. I love how Punk shows up and just destroys Jericho right from the get go, only to have Jericho take control with a simple eye poke, what a simple but effective heel move on his part. We begin to spill things out to the outside, as this one quickly turns into an out of control brawl that also happens to be story driven. We get lots of weapons being incorporated in this one, and we also get Punk's family involved, as Jericho goes after Punk's sister after she slaps Jericho, leading to a change of mood in this match as Punk goes absolutely insane and begins to go off on Jericho.

The way this match works is simple: Jericho plays mind games and uses simple moves on Punk, but Punk's intensity and will to destroy and get revenge on Jericho prevails. We get a few great counter sequences here, including reversing the lionsault into a GTS attempt, something I never ever thought I would see. The main criticism people have with this match is that it is too drawn out towards the end, and it really slows things down. I personally disagree with that statement, as I love the rollercoaster pace of the match. It starts off fast, cools down, and then picks right back up near the end. The main idea of this match was for Punk to finally get his definitive revenge on Jericho that he couldn't get at Mania due to stipulations out of his control, and he does that and puts an end to this fantastic feud. Would be match of the night on many, many shows, although I personally thought the Wrestlemania match was better. This was a different, more intense match than Wrestlemania, and it was another classic on this PPV. Fantastic.

***** 1/4*

_Divas Championship : Nikki Bella(c) vs Layla_

Again, this is another match to give the fans a breather after the two classic matches that they have already seen on this night. I'm a fan of Layla's in ring work, so I thought this was a nice changeup to see her return. She showed alot of energy in her return, and a few great moves as usual, but this wasn't as good as her match that she had at Over The Limit in a few weeks, which was a GOOD match in general (not just by Diva standards). The Bellas suck in the ring, but this was their last appearance IIRC, so who really cares. Just a way to switch the titleholder and give the fans a breather, nothing much to see here besides a good return. 

** 3/4*

_John Cena vs Brock Lesnar : Extreme Rules_

If I were to use a word that could sum this match up as a whole, I would use the word UNIQUE. Never in all my years as a wrestling fan have I seen something like this on my TV screen. This match had an unbelieveable story behind it : Brock Lesnar's back, and he's going to destroy everything in his path just because he can, starting with what he believes to be the little bitch of the company, John Cena. He backs it up to, as Lesnar looks like an absolute MONSTER out there, legitimately destroying Cena and busting him open within the first minute of the match with some vicious MMA style strikes to the head. Brock's moveset is absolutely brilliant ; He uses nothing but Amateur wrestling and MMA style holds and strikes, besides his F-5 at the end of the match, while John cena spends literally about 2-3 percent of this match on the offensive.

Some people aren't a fan of the stoppages for blood, but I thought these pauses put over the fact that Lesnar is so vicious that the match has to be stopped, for JOHN CENA (the face of the company) of all people. Lesnar does a really good job of switching up his offense from MMA to mat wrestling, and getting the fans on Cena's side. This is the first time we've seen legit bleeding in the company for almost FOUR years, and it works perfectly to the context of the story, so obviously that alone bumps this matches rating up a bit. Lesnar works on and destroys Cena's arm with the Kimura, legitimizing that particular hold for future use, as Cena makes Lesnar look downright BEASTLY here. Cena gets his offense in flurries, just enough for the fans to get on his side before Lesnar kills his momentum once again. Lesnar actually has Cena beaten, but the referee gets knocked down, so that makes me okay with the ending.

Some people HATE this ending and refuse to give the match a good rating because of it. I thought that it makes both men look equally as good. Cena is finally the underdog in a match and he overcomes adversity, and ESCAPES Lesnar. he doesn't actually BEAT Lesnar, as Lesnar escapes the war with minimal damage, whilst Cena can barely move his arm and is busted wide open with blood streaming down his face. It makes Lesnar look like a machine who just gets caught due to unforseen circumstances, and doesn't disregard his credibility one bit. What a thrill ride of a match, the storytelling was amazing, the brutality was fantastic, and both men really gave it their all out there. One of the most unique matches of all time, astronomically better than the "once in a lifetime" match between Rock and Cena. Amazing, MOTN in my opinion, and a perfect way to close the PPV.

***** 1/2* 

_Thoughts_

Wow. Before I rewatched this PPV I thought it was maybe better than Wrestlemania. This is going to be a little bit controversial, but I believe that the triple main event that takes place on this PPV is a TOP FIVE triple main event of all time. Take the three best matches from ANY show and stack them up against these 3 main events, and in terms of star ratings, I don't see any triple main event adding up. Couple that with a pretty great opener, and you not only have the greatest PPV of the year (I don't see any PPV beating it, but that's my opinion) , but one of the greatest PPV's of ALL TIME IMO. That might be jumping the gun in the minds of some people but consider this:

We have 8 matches on this PPV and a runtime of 2 hours and about 50 minutes. The opener (a great match) took up 17 minutes (not including entrances and build up), and an overall HOUR AND 10 MINUTES of in ring time were given to the absolutely fantastic 3 main events, while the other four matches had a combined 13 minutes in ring. You obviously can't dismiss the number of filler matches on this card, but this card has a match for everyone; An all time classic WRESTLING match, an all time classic BRAWL, and an all time classic I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IT WAS BUT IT WAS AWESOME. The most top heavy PPV of all time perhaps, but I can say nothing but good things about this.

This is required viewing in my eyes, as the 3 main events are breathtaking. In contrast to events such as Summerslam and MITB 2011 which featured all around cards with absolutely NO bad or filler matches even taking place, this PPV is very top heavy, and just as good as the two aforementioned events, which I can't choose between (but I will someday). Might even be the second best PPV of the WWE era in my eyes (WM XIX being number one) , but perhaps I'm just overreacting. We'll see if this stands the test of time, but for right now, I'm blown away.

*9.25/10*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Anybody got stars for vengeance 2011?
> 
> cena/del rio looks interesting what with the ring being broke and all whilst punk&trip/miz&truth looks okay.


Evan/Kofi vs Ziggler/Swagger - Just your typical tag team match.
Ziggler vs Ryder - Nothing memorable.
Beth vs Eve - I think this is the match with the top rope Glamslam. Not bad.
Sheamus vs Christian - Your typical PPV Sheamus match when he was on a squashing streak.
Miz/Truth vs HHH/Punk - I don't really recall much apart from Nash ambushing Hunter outside the ring and Miz/Truth doing a double-finisher to pin Punk.
Orton vs Cody - Your typical Orton match, which is... good.
Mark Henry vs Big Show - Boring, only thing standing out is the superplex. Their SVS match was much better despite the stupid finish.
Alberto del Rio vs Cena - A good LMS match, not your typical either, with a broken ring and all.

In conclusion, I wouldn't bother with this PPV if I haven't seen it already.

And I wanna get some matches between the top stars from the AE recommended to me. Y'know, Rock/Austin/Foley/HHH/Taker/Jericho/Angle/etc. That excludes Wrestlemania matches as I have watched most of them and planning to watch the remaining ones as well. You don't need to recommend any Benoit matches since I have watched almost every single one of them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Anybody got stars for vengeance 2011?
> 
> cena/del rio looks interesting what with the ring being broke and all whilst punk&trip/miz&truth looks okay.


This was from last December, I feel like it's trash compared to my other reviews, but the I still stick by my stars, just thought the write-up was horrible.


*Vengeance 2011*

Air Boom vs Zig-Swag: *****
Ziggler vs Ryder: *** 1/2*
Phoenix vs Torres: ***
Sheamus vs Christian: *** 3/4*
Awesome Truth vs HHH & Punk: **** 1/2*
Orton vs Rhodes: *****
Henry vs Show: **** 1/4*
Del Rio vs Cena LMS: **** 1/4*


_Thoughts_

When you first look at my ratings, you're going to notice two things: No non-diva matches under 2 and a half stars, and no matches over 3 and a half stars. 

Ziggler pulling double duty was a good effort by a good worker. The opener was fast paced and good at setting the tone for the rest of the show, and Ziggler vs Ryder was a decent little match that showcased the popular Zack Ryder on PPV. I disagree with the order the matches were put in though. If Zack Ryder was going to lose, have him face Ziggler first, don't make him look weak.

The Divas match was your typical random garbage. I don't think Vince knows what to do with the Divas nowadays. Gone are the days of Trish and Lita. Thats all I gotta say about that.

Sheamus vs Christian, while not as good as their Hell In A Cell encounter a few weeks earlier, was a decent but forgettable match. Two and 3 quarter stars seems appropriate for this match.

Now we get into the good half of the PPV. Nothings but 3 star+ matches from here on out. Alot of people will disagree with my rating for the tag team match, but I thought it was really good, as in the 3 and a half star territory, and I don't know whether its because I am a diehard mark for HHH and Punk, or not, but I absolutely love this match. Again, alot of people will disagree.

Rhodes vs Orton was a good match, having Orton go over was the right decision because I don't believe that Rhodes is ready to go over an Orton-style main event players. Good stuff here that I love seeing.

Henry and Show have this weird chemistry together, that they always put together a half decent match. This was a surprisingly good match between the two, as the pacing got better as the match went on.

The main event was really hit or miss. I thought it was a really FUN match. It wasn't technically good or anything, it was like a good action movie, like a popcorn match. Its like they were doing things that would kill normal human beings, and just brushing it off like it was nothing. A really good way to end the PPV.

In the end, this was a great PPV with many good matches. As a whole it seems like a great show, and I'm always a fan of taking your main eventers and spreading them throught different matches amongst the card (Punk,Orton,Henry and Cena were all in different matches). Recommended for sure

*7/10*


----------



## ddog121 (Jun 18, 2008)

No Way Out 2012:
Sheamus v. Ziggler ***3/4
Santino v. Ricardo DUD
Christian v. Rhodes ***1/4
Primetime Players v. Usos v. Primo and Epico v. Kidd and Gabriel **
Layla v. Phoenix *3/4
Sin Cara v. Hunico **
Punk v. Bryan v. Kane ****
Ryback v. Jobbers DUD
Cena v. Show ***

Middle of the show dragged due to lack of heat for the lower midcarders, both otherwise it was an OK show. Check out the triple threat match if you get the chance.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

No Way Out

Zig/Sheamus - ****
Santino/RR - DUD
Christian/Rhodes - ***1/2
Tag 4-way - ***
Layla/Beth - **
Sin Cara/Hunico - **
Punk/Bryan/Kane - ****1/4
Cena/Show - *1/2

Fun show, imo.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

NWO was great. Neck in neck with ER for PPV of the year so far. First two matches were fantastic.

Sheamus/Ziggler - ****
Santino/Ricardo - *
Christian/Rhodes - ****
Tag Team Four Way - **3/4
Layla/Beth - **
Cara/Hunico - *1/2
Punk/Kane/Bryan - ***1/2
Cena/Show - ***

EDIT: By "first two matches", I meant Sheamus/Ziggler and Christian/Rhodes, not fucking Santino/Ricardo. :side:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

*No Way Out 2012*

Sheamus (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4
Ricardo Rodriguez vs. Santino Marella - DUD
Christian (c) vs. Cody Rhodes - ***1/4
Primetime Players vs. The Uso's vs. Epico/Primo vs. Kidd/Gabriel - **1/4
Layla (c) vs. Beth Phoenix - *1/2
Sin Cara vs. Hunico - *1/2
CM Punk (c) vs. Kane vs. Daniel Bryan - ***1/2
Ryback vs. Dan Delaney & Rob Grimes - DUD
John Cena vs. Big Show - *1/2

Very up and down.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Huganomics said:


> NWO was great. Neck in neck with ER for PPV of the year so far.
> 
> Sheamus/Ziggler - ****
> Santino/Ricardo - *
> ...


I think I would put ER a step above it but it was still really good. (Y)

At least this thread will be more civil than the official one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*First Take : No Way Out 2012*

WHC : Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler : **** 3/4*
Santino Marella vs Ricardo Rodriguez Tuxedo Match : *DUD*
ICC : Christian vs Cody Rhodes : **** 1/4*
Tag Team 4 Way : *** 3/4*
DC : Layla vs Beth Phoenix : ** 3/4*
Sin Cara vs Hunico : ** 3/4*
WWEC : CM Punk vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan : **** 3/4*
Ryback vs Jobbers : *DUD (Normally would be N/A, but I'm sick of this pointless bullshit)*
John Cena vs The Big Show Cage : *** 1/4*

Just a few quick notes on the PPV:

- I try to be civil, unlike most people in the general forum during these events, but these pointless matches (Tuxedo, Sin Cara, Ryback) DON'T need to take place on PPV. If I had paid for this I would be super pissed, and it's a trend that the WWE severely needs to put a stop to.

- Opener was a great little match that really showed off why Dolph is one of the best workers in the ring today. Sheamus was a little sloppy out there, but besides that one little flaw, this match was fantastic with back and forth action

- Rhodes/Christian was a great little back and forth contest with a great false finish and a fantastic ending sequence, might bump up on a rewatch. 

- Tyson Kidd is flat out awesome. He literally accounts for 3/4* added onto the tag title four way. Let's get this guy some wins, Please ?

- Divas match was a major step down from last month's PPV Diva match.

- WWE Championship match was the MOTN in my opinion, and it hinges on the verge of *** 3/4 and ****, but from what I saw, I will NOT give it the benefit of the doubt and push it to ****, but might on a rewatch. Bryan being down for like 5 minutes at the end honestly makes the difference for me. How long before we can say that this WWE Championship run by Punk is the most consistent ever ?

- The Cage Match, although the biggest story of the event, should not have main evented. It was decent, but nowhere NEAR main event quality. This year has had 6 PPV's, and only in ONE of them has the Main Event been the MOTN, and even THAT'S debateable. WWE, Fuck off and straighten your main events out!

- Complete throwaway show IMO, with nothing really of note happening in this one. Due to the amount of filler it's probably the worst PPV of the year so far(other than that, it's better than EC 2012), but we got 2 great title matches, so that has to account for SOMETHING. 

- Oh yeah, HHH vs Lesnar @ Summerslam ? .......... FUCK YES.

*First Take : 6/10*


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Oh hey look fans who aren't saying how horrible the show was when really it was very good. 4 good matches.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Zig/Sheamus - ****1/2
Santino/RR - ***. Great fun.
Christian/Rhodes - ****
Tag 4-way - ****1/4
Layla/Beth - **1/2
Sin Cara/Hunico - ***1/4
Punk/Bryan/Kane - *****
Cena/Show - ****

Best show since Wrestlemania 17.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

didn't really like anything on the show. Part that made me smile the most was when AJ said she she cared for Bryan he goes "I-I don't care" and rolls his eyes and stuff. Most boring WWE PPV I've probably ever watched in full. 3 hour Raws sure as hell don't look inspiring after this and I doubt I'll be watching WWE shows anymore.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Ziggler - ***3/4
Santino/Ricardo - DUD
Christian/Rhodes - ***1/2
Tag Team Four Way - **1/4
Layla/Beth - N/A (Didn't watch)
Cara/Hunico - *1/2
Punk/Kane/Bryan - ****
Cena/Show - *3/4


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

GOON said:


> Zig/Sheamus - ****1/2
> *Santino/RR - ***. Great fun*.
> Christian/Rhodes - ****
> *Tag 4-way - ****1/4*
> ...



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

oh trollz


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE: The History of the World Heavyweight Championship (3 Disc)*

_Disc One : Documentary/NWA Matches_

We start this DVD off with a good and concise documentary about the WHC that to it's credit, mainly focuses on the earlier days of the NWA/WCW , rather than focusing on the WHC of the WWE Era. Major props to WWE for not putting over their current product first, and respecting the tradition of who came before them. If there was ever a documentary that focused on pre-WWWF wrestling that was produced by WWE Home Video, it's this one, as we get a look not only into the pre WWWF NWA champions such as Gotch and Ed Lewis, but we get insight into how wrestling transitioned from a pure shoot sport into a work of entertainment. That's the first time that's EVER been covered on WWE Home Video.

We get tons of insight into the tradition rich NWA and how it was formed, whilst covering great wrestlers such as Pat O' Connor and Buddy Rogers, then we move on to the Harley Race's and Jack Briscoes of the world. We then move on to a BIG segment dedicated to whom many believe to be the greatest WHC of all time, Ric Flair (and this segment is deservedly so). After Flair, we move on to the whole WCW title controversy and how the title lost it's credibility in the dying days of WCW, citing undeserving world champions such as Scott Steiner, Jeff Jarrett, and David Arquette amongst others.

The last fifth of this documentary focuses on the WWE portion of the belt, specifically highlighting everyone who has held the belt since. Triple H is really the only world champion that gets talked about for quite a while, and of course the HHH mark in me loves that. In the end this is a very concise documentary that runs a little less than an hour. I'm going to rate it for what it is, and that is a quick but very informative history lesson on one of the most prestigious belts of all time .

*7/10*

Buddy Rogers vs Pat O Connor 1961 : **** 3/4*
Gene Kiniski vs Dory Funk Jr 1969 : *** 3/4 (Clipped)*
Jack Brisco vs Terry Funk 1975 : **** (Clipped)*
Dusty Rhodes vs Harley Race 1979: **** (Clipped)*
Ric Flair vs Magnum T.A. Superclash 85 : ******
Ric Flair vs Sting Great American Bash 1990: **** 3/4*

Nothing but quality on this disc match wise. We get a few matches showcasing the early NWA days, including a FANTASTIC match from 1961 that still holds up 51 years later (an amazing feat), and some damn near classic matches from the master himself, NAITCHHH. The clipped matches kind of drove me insane because these looked like matches that were potentially **** quality, but we only got to see a little portion of them. Really a precursor to what is the true meat and potatoes of this set, the disc 2 and 3 matches.

_Disc 2 : WCW_

Ric Flair vs Scott Steiner COTC XIV : **** 1/2*
Lex Luger vs Barry Windham Cage Match Great American Bash 1991 : *** 1/2*
Vader vs Ron Simmons 1992 : **** 1/2*
Vader vs Ricky Steamboat WCW Saturday Night 1993 : **** 3/4*
Hulk Hogan vs Ric Flair Cage Halloween Havoc 1995 : ******
Hulk Hogan vs Sting Superbrawl 1998 : *** 3/4*
Hulk Hogan vs Goldberg Nitro 1998 : ****
Booker T vs Jeff Jarrett Bash at the Beach 2000 : *** 1/2
The Rock vs Chris Jericho No Mercy 2001 : ***** 1/4*

Right here we get some REALLY quality matches that I never ever thought would be released on WWE DVD. EVERY single match on this disc is either great or has VAST historical significance. We get some really good exclusive gems that you won't see on any other set, such as the two Vader matches, the Flair-Steiner encounter, and of course the fantastic match between Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair from HH 94. Apart from that we get a severely underrated Sting-Hogan encounter, and even a classic Rock-Jericho encounter. One of the most consistent discs I've seen from the WWE, as I watched it from start to finish without stopping once. Fantastic.

_Disc 3 : WWE_

Triple H vs Rob Van Dam Unforgiven 2002 : ******
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels Taboo Tuesday 2004 : **** 1/2*
The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle No Way out 2006 : ***** 3/4*
Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton Smackdown 2006 : **** 1/2*
The Undertaker vs Edge vs Batista Armageddon 2007 : **** 1/2*
John Cena vs Chris Jericho Survivor Series 2008 : *****
Edge vs Jeff Hardy Ladder Match Extreme Rules 2009 : **** 1/2*

Speaking of consistency, not a single match on this disc is under ***, and we also get a forgotten **** gem from HHH and RVD, and my 2006 hands down match of the year from Undertaker and Kurt Angle. This disc does a great job showing off all of the best champions from the WWE era, including HHH, Edge, John Cena, HBK, Rey Mysterio, The Undertaker, Batista, Jericho, etc. The only NON WHC featured on this disc is RVD, and since his match has both historical significance and is a legitimate near classic, I loved it. Just a great consistent mix of Champions putting on some fantastic matches.

_Thoughts_

This DVD is a model of consistency. While only one of these matches is an all time classic in my eyes (Taker-Angle), out of 22 matches, EIGHTEEN are ***+ , whilst the other four are full of historical significance. The documentary is a great change of pace from other ones, as it focuses on the grassroots of wrestling in a very concise matter. 

We get a mix of matches from some VERY talented performers on this one, with a majority of this matches being near classics, and rare exclusive gems that won't make it onto any other DVDs. If you're a fan of WCW or the NWA, this is obviously a must buy, and even a fan of the current product is encouraged to go out and get this one for it's consistently great match selection.

This is the type of DVD that you can watch twice, it just flows so smoothly and offers something for every wrestling fan. This DVD reminded me of how many classic gems there are in the world, and why no matter how much wrestling we watch, there's still great material out there for us to discover and review. Alongside the other 2 "history of" sets, this is a must buy.

*8.5/10*

On a side note, I've abandoned doing big writeups for matches on 3 disc sets, as I find it very tedious sometimes. I like to sit down for 3 hours and just watch an entire disc, and for me to do a review it means doing it just after I see it, meaning that I'd have to watch a disc and spend an hour-two hours writing up reviews and all that, which is way too much time. How I review things is going to go like this: For shows, I'm going to do a full write-up as I enjoy those writeups very very much and find them to be a much easier write than the 3 discs, which will be a documentary rating alongside my star ratings and thoughts on every disc. If anyone has a particular question about my specific thoughts on a match from a 3 disc DVD, feel free to ask. Also, I'm going to be doing first take reviews after every PPV before I do the REAL review when I rewatch it on DVD, as I enjoy doing those also. 

Just a thank you to everyone on this particular thread for all the intelligent wrestling discussion. I feel this is the greatest damn thread in the world for talking matches, and there's no wrestling opinions that I respect more than the likes of King Cal , Obis , Brye , Clique, Yeah1993, Jackevans187, HOL, Starbuck and MANY MANY others on this site(Top of my head, sorry if I left somebody out). I respect your opinions and look to them before I look to the likes of Meltzer and Alvarez for opinions on matches, wrestlers, etc. It's been a pleasure to post reviews for you guys, and I look forward to posting many in the future. I know we don't see eye to eye on alot of things (most having to do with Triple H, The Rock, or The Undertaker for some reason  ), but it's been great (with the exception of Rock316AE, who gave me negative rep for saying that Rock's performance wasn't up to par with Cena's at WM 28), again this might be weird because it's an internet forum and we're supposed to be stereotypical smark trolls, but thank you.

K1ngs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got the best of smackdown 10th anniversary DVD? I have got the raw set but I know this is different as its a countdown, just wondered if its worth getting.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*WWE No Way Out 2012*

*Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler*
_Very fun to watch and I loved the Wrestlemania callback spot but not once did I ever believed Ziggler stood a chance and it hindered my enjoyment._
*Rating: ★★★*

*Santino Marella vs Ricardo Rodriguez (Tuxedo Match)*
_Eh._
*Rating: DUD*

*Christian vs Cody Rhodes*
_Christian's selective selling of his arm stopped this from going into the 'great' territory. He sold the arm well enough in the opening sections of the match to keep me satisfied until the finishing stretch and what a finishing stretch it was. Plenty of finisher teases and a great false finish._
*Rating: ★★★½*

*Prime Time Players vs The Usos vs Epico & Primo vs Justin Gabriel & Tyson Kidd*
_Enjoyable and I wasn't expecting the AW turn. The frankensteiner spot looked horribly set up though._
*Rating: ★★½*

*Layla vs Beth Phoenix*
_loldidntpayattention._
_*Rating: N/A*_

*Sin Cara vs Hunico*
_Half a star for FILPZ N SHIT._
*Rating: ½★ *

*CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane*
_Plenty of believable near-falls and they managed to take my mind of the stuff with AJ long enough so it was a surprise when she finally appeared. Punk and Bryan were the stars here and Kane can have a good showing in the right circumstances, and this was one example. _
*Rating: ★★★¾*

*Ryback vs Jobbers*
_Squash._
*Rating: DUD*

*Big Show vs John Cena (Steel Cage)*
_I know I'm in the minority but I really enjoyed this match. Things started off slow but it established Show as a monster and Cena as the underdog. It's your typical formulaic Cena performance spiced up with some sweet bumping from both men. This really gets good around the time the interference happens. Overbooked fun that will leave you wondering what will happen next._
*Rating: ★★★½*

*Overall:*
_Hit and miss show. Seek out the good stuff, but definitely skip the bad. _


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

No Way Out 2012:
Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler: *** 3/4
Santino Marella vs. Ricardo Rodriguez: 1/4*
Christian vs. Cody Rhodes: *** 1/2
4 team tag match: ** 3/4
Layla vs. Beth Phoenix: 1/2*
Sin Cara vs. Hunico: *
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane: ****
Ryback vs. Two jobbers: DUD
John Cena vs. Big Show: ** 1/4


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

GOON said:


> Zig/Sheamus - ****1/2
> Santino/RR - ***. Great fun.
> Christian/Rhodes - ****
> Tag 4-way - ****1/4
> ...


Take your trolling somewhere else bro. This is the only good thread in the entire WWE section.

However, if you are being serious then I HIGHLY disagree with you.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Has anyone got the best of smackdown 10th anniversary DVD? I have got the raw set but I know this is different as its a countdown, just wondered if its worth getting.


Yeah, I most definitely enjoyed it but then again I picked it up for like £8. Don't know if I would have been satisfied paying any more.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Looking forward to MITB 12, last years was amazing. Does anybody know if the MITB participants will be announced tonight at Raw? Or will they wait a week?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> Yeah, I most definitely enjoyed it but then again I picked it up for like £8. Don't know if I would have been satisfied paying any more.


thanks mate, sure its a tenner on amazon like, a few of the full matches look good as do the moments, the raw DVD set is one of my favorites.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*Heavenly Bodies vs Rock N' Roll Express - WWF Survivor Series 1993*
_The shitty crowd really hurt this match. I try not to let a dead crowd ruin my enjoyment but when you are doing a southern-formula tag match, you rely on the crowd to build up anticipation for the hot tag. I also wasn't too hot on the ending. It was too over-the-top for my tastes. They were plenty of chances for them to off to wrap it up but they insisted on keeping on going despite the crowd really not being into the match. It wasn't all bad. The opening spots where the face team humiliated the heels with a variety of double-team moves was pretty fun and plenty of the spots were ahead of it's time, at least for WWF-standards anyway. Not the best example of a FIP tag match I've ever seen._
*Rating: ★★¾ *


----------



## English Dragon (Apr 10, 2010)

NWO was better than I thought it would be. The actual matches were really good. I even enjoyed the main event, I don't see why some are giving it such a low rating. Was a fun match. Triple Threat for WWE title MOTN.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Meh. Would have picked it up if it was the 2 disc 10th Anniversary edition with the Owen DVD. Guess I'll just have to manage with my copied version of that one lol.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Already have it. See what next weeks is...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Meh. Would have picked it up if it was the 2 disc 10th Anniversary edition with the Owen DVD. Guess I'll just have to manage with my copied version of that one lol.


tis a legendary DVD, I too have the 2 disc version, forgot what site I had it from but I thought it was region 1 but found the discs work fine in my 360...

Suprised its on there, every time I browse past it on the sire its always out of stock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They probably found a box of them in the warehouse or something stupid lol. Its happened before... though that's a touchy subject for me . They found a box of WM XX special edition thingys, and I ordered the VERY LAST ONE... and it got lost in the post. Got my money back, but fuck, I wanted that set dammit!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, i was going to get WM XX myself from SV, it was £7,99 for ages, the moment i go to order it it's up now at £17.99 FFS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I probably paid about £20 for WM XX when it first came out lol. The special edition thingy was £50, wish it arrived but at the same time, maybe I shouldn't be spending £50 on it .


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

£50 :O think I paid £20 for mine off ebay a year or so back.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only ones I ever found on ebay (not exactly looked much though lol) were around £50 and were opened and whatnot. So same price, but the one I ordered was brand new and sealed .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Bryan/Kane - ***1/2

Re-watching the event again, since I wasn't paying much attention earlier (had MONEY~! on my mind lol). Started with the triple threat. Really good match, though where the fuck did Bryan disappear to a couple of times? He just seemed to vanish completely, yet nothing major happened to him to keep him away for that length of time. Maybe he was doing the old heel thing of staying out of the way, but its not like the announcers mentioned it, or the cameras focused in on him or anything, so fuck knows. Bit with Bryan kicking the shit out of both Kane and Punk all the while screaming YES! was awesome. Crowd wanted to have his babies too. Heard that WWE were considering putting the belt on him and eventually decided to keep it with Punk literally hours before the match. Can see Bryan winning it within the next couple of months easy.

Sheamus/Ziggler - ****

Ziggler/Dolph was still great on second watch. Ziggler was great, duh. Callback to WM spot was great. Mike mentioned about Ziggler's stalling, and yeah, he's great at it. I talked a lot about it last year after I went to a Raw House Show. Guy was incredible at stalling and shit and was so fucking entertaining with it. Wish he had the chance to do it more often on TV. Loved his headstand while applying a headlock/sleeper on Sheamus. Adds leverage and whatnot to the hold, and shows Ziggler for who/what he is; a show off. Ziggler's character as the show off has moments of greatness, but overall kinda lacks something. If only he could find that little bit extra, he'd really be awesome. Sheamus wasn't exactly a slouch either. He isn't the greatest worker or anything, but against good opponents he holds his own just fine. Some sloppy moments here and there but I felt they recovered well with Sheamus usually just slugging away at Ziggler so they can transition back into whatever spot they were meant to do. That elbow shot right at the start when Ziggler has a waist lock on him looks BRUTAL lol. Thought he legit decked him with that one. Definitely MOTN for me (unless I end up loving Christian/Cody more on a re-watch lol, doubt I'll like it more than this or the triple threat though). Keep pushing Ziggler! If Del Rio comes back for a title match and Ziggler gets shoved back down the card doing fuck all I'm gonna be pissed.

Christian/Cody - ***3/4

So this was pretty great. Christian having his arm worked on = awesomeness. Nothing will compare to his performance against Swagger on ECW back in 09, but its still really good here. Cody looked great with his offence targeting the arm and countering a ton of Christian's moves, and kicking out of the Killswitch with no waiting period was pretty big, though Christian has stopped using it as his main finisher since he returned so its not as huge as it could have been imo. Finishing stretch was really good, Christian's spear looks great (better than Edge's running hug lol) and would be a better finisher than his horrible attempt at a Frog Splash lol. Nice to see Christian seemingly back into his grove as a great babyface worker. While his character might be able to go further as a heel (not the whining fuck he was during the Orton feud), his work rate and matches are far FAR better with him as a babyface. Looking forward to the rest of his IC title reign. Kinda expecting Cody to get a rematch at some point, but after that, no idea who he'll face next. Based on their superstars match recently (and matches back in 2010), I'd LOVE McIntyre to finally get a push and a nice feud over the belt.

Overall, even if I couldn't be arsed watching anything else, this was a good event from what I saw. People were creaming over Slammiversay last week, well this was better imo. A **** match, ***3/4 match and a ***1/2 match compared to a ***3/4 (Aries/Joe) match, ***1/2 (Tag titles) match and a *** (Parks/Bully) match means for me this was a better event .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

zep81 said:


> thanks mate, sure its a tenner on amazon like, a few of the full matches look good as do the moments, the raw DVD set is one of my favorites.


Some of the matches are clipped, though. There I was ready and waiting to finally watch TLC III, and it was just a highlight package, with Benoit pointedly edited out. I watched it the other day though. PHENOMENAL. Spotz!~


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> Some of the matches are clipped, though. There I was ready and waiting to finally watch TLC III, and it was just a highlight package, with Benoit pointedly edited out. I watched it the other day though. PHENOMENAL. Spotz!~


yeah mate, sure that TLC III match is on the first ladder match DVD set at least, also there is only a clip of the lesner-angle iron man match but I have that on the superstars DVD set...


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Sheamus/Ziggler - ****1/4*
Santino/Ricardo - *DUD*
Christian/Cody - ****1/2*
4-way Tag - ***3/4*
Layla/Beth - **1/2*
Sin Cara/Hunico - **1/4*
Triple Threat - ****1/2*
Ryback/Jobbers - *DUD*
Cena/Show - *lol didn't watch*

Didn't go as high as most of you for a lot of it. Nothing stood out as a must-see, just a few good matches surrounded by mediocrity and shit. I hate Ryback.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CM Punk hit a snag in the road at OTL 2011 when he jobbed to the Big Show & Kane in a pointless tag match. Ever since then, here has been his PPV matches :

CP 11 vs Rey Mysterio : ******
MITB 11 vs John Cena : *******
SS 11 vs John Cena : ***** 1/2*
NOC 11 vs HHH : ******
HIAC 11 vs John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio : **** 3/4*
Ven 11 w/ HHH vs Awesome Truth : **** 1/2*
SS 11 vs Alberto Del Rio : ******
TLC 11 vs Miz vs Del Rio : ******
RR 12 vs Dolph Ziggler : **** 3/4*
EC 12 RAW Elimination Chamber : **** 1/2*
WM XXVIII vs Chris Jericho : ***** 1/2*
ER 12 vs Chris Jericho : ***** 1/4*
OTL 12 vs Daniel Bryan : ***** 3/4*
NWO 12 vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane : **** 3/4*

Fucking EPIC title run. That's not counting the list of FANTASTIC Raw matches against the likes of Ziggler, Henry, and Bryan. We're in the middle of something very special here that I felt the need to recognize. Any other title reign with those credentials and with that much consistency ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree Punk has been on a good run but technically this title reign starts at Survivor Series '11. Still I'll rate his run from when he started his consistent workrate: 

CP 11 vs Rey Mysterio : *** 1/2
MITB 11 vs John Cena : **** 1/2
SS 11 vs John Cena : **** 
NOC 11 vs HHH : *** 1/4
HIAC 11 vs John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio : *** 
Ven 11 w/ HHH vs Awesome Truth : ** 1/2
SS 11 vs Alberto Del Rio : *** 1/2
TLC 11 vs Miz vs Del Rio : *** 1/4
RR 12 vs Dolph Ziggler : *** 
EC 12 RAW Elimination Chamber : *** 
WM XXVIII vs Chris Jericho : **** 
ER 12 vs Chris Jericho : **** 
OTL 12 vs Daniel Bryan : **** 1/2
NWO 12 vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane : ***


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not AS high on some of Punk's matches as others, but it's the best WWE Title reign in years. Probably since Cena in 07. Guy's had like three good matches that involve Kane, ffs. 
--

watching Judgment Day 2000 later today. Literally not ever seen a single match on the show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> watching Judgment Day 2000 later today. Literally not ever seen a single match on the show.


Were you not involved in the WWF/E Poll?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

......Nup.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> ......Nup.


That's ok then. Was gonna have to bludgeon you with something had you done the poll and NOT watched the Iron Man at least. And Mike would be terribly upset if you didn't watch GMS dance until his pants fell down .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena's 06-07 PPV matches during his championship reign :

UNF 06 vs Edge : ***** 1/4*
CS 06 vs Big Show vs Booker T : *** 3/4*
SS 06 Traditional tag match : *** 3/4*
ARM 06 w/Batista vs King Booker & Finlay : *****
NYR 07 vs Umaga : ******
RR 07 vs Umaga : ***** 1/2*
NWO 07 w/HBK vs Batista & Undertaker : ***** 1/2*
WM XXIII vs HBK : ******
BL 07 Four Way : ******
JD 07 vs Khali : *** 1/4*
ONS 07 vs Khali : *** 1/2*
VEN 07 5 Way : **** 1/4*
GAB 07 vs Lashley : **** 3/4*
SS 07 vs Orton : **** 3/4*
UNF 07 vs Orton : *** 1/4*

Wow...Five ****+ matches in a row, not counting some of his great TV matches with HBK, Edge, etc... That's a pretty damn good reign there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lets see how good my memory is:

Cena Reign:

UNF 06 vs Edge : ***1/4
CS 06 vs Big Show vs Booker T : **
SS 06 Traditional tag match : Fuck knows
ARM 06 w/Batista vs King Booker & Finlay : **
NYR 07 vs Umaga : ***
RR 07 vs Umaga : ***
NWO 07 w/HBK vs Batista & Undertaker : ****1/4
WM XXIII vs HBK : ***3/4
BL 07 Four Way : ****
JD 07 vs Khali : Fuck knows
ONS 07 vs Khali : Fuck knows
VEN 07 5 Way : ***
GAB 07 vs Lashley : ***1/2
SS 07 vs Orton : **3/4
UNF 07 vs Orton : **

Punk Reign + Good matches:

CP 11 vs Rey Mysterio : ***1/2
MITB 11 vs John Cena : ****3/4
SS 11 vs John Cena : ****1/2
NOC 11 vs HHH : **
HIAC 11 vs John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio : ***
Ven 11 w/ HHH vs Awesome Truth : **
SS 11 vs Alberto Del Rio : ***1/4
TLC 11 vs Miz vs Del Rio : ***
RR 12 vs Dolph Ziggler : ***1/4
EC 12 RAW Elimination Chamber : ***
WM XXVIII vs Chris Jericho : ****1/2
ER 12 vs Chris Jericho : ***1/2
OTL 12 vs Daniel Bryan : ****1/2
NWO 12 vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane : ***1/2

Both guys had a bunch of good-great TV matches too, would take Punk over Cena overall based on TV matches, but its been a while since I watched Cena's 07 TV stuff .


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Yeah, Punk's work on TV kind of tilts the scales in his favor, I think. The match with Ziggler last November the night after Survivor Series and the Raw feud with Mark Henry in April are both stand-out TV bouts. (In the case of the Henry feud, the match the night after Wrestlemania and the streetfight in London are both excellent and I've revisited them both a few different times because I enjoy them so much.) 

it speaks to how much better Punk has become at mastering the "WWE style" and how much better condition Kane is in now that they seem to have sort of a genuine chemistry with one another in the ring now, and in almost all of their matches against each other before, except maybe Backlash '09, they never really meshed well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk's also had 3 TV matches with Bryan this year too which helps too .


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

KingCal said:


> RR 07 vs Umaga : ***


Only three stars?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In honour of us being halfway through the PPV schedule, here are my top 10 PPV matches so far in 2012 :

1. Triple H vs The Undertaker HIAC WM XXVIII : ***** 3/4*
2. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan OTL : ***** 3/4*
3. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar Extreme Rules : ***** 1/2*
4. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
5. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan 2/3 Falls ER : ***** 1/2*
6. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho Street Fight : ***** 1/4*
7. CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler Royal Rumble : **** 3/4*
8. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto Del Rio vs Sheamus OTL : **** 3/4*
9. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane NWO : **** 3/4*
10. Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler NWO : **** 3/4*

Thoughts ?

I'm expecting a really good MITB and Summerslam for this year, like the last two. Summerslam could potentially be REALLY stacked this year, with the likes of HHH-Lesnar (    ) and many other possible matchups such as Cena-Bryan, Jericho-Orton, Punk-??? (It will be a good match regardless) and Sheamus-???. Fuck, I REALLY want to see Cena-Bryan


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

1) Punk/Bryan OTL- *****
2) Punk/Jericho WM28- ****1/2
3) Bryan/Sheamus ER- ****
4) Punk/Jericho ER- ****
5) Punk/Henry Raw after WM28- ****
6) Taker/HHH WM28- ****
7) Punk vs. Bryan vs. Kane NWO- ***3/4(on second watch)
8) Punk/Ziggler RR- ***3/4
9) Sheamus/Orton/Del Rio/Jericho OTL- ***3/4
10) Lesnar/Cena ER- ***3/4

Only new thing from the last time I made the list is now the triple threat from NWO. Nothing else I think.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

1. Cena/Brock Extreme Rules
2. Triple H/Undertaker WrestleMania
3. Sheamus/Bryan Extreme Rules
4. Bryan/Punk Over the Limit

Think that's about it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Bryan vs. Punk @ Over The Limit - **** 3/4
Triple H vs. The Undertaker @ Wrestlemania - **** 3/4
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar @ Extreme Rules - **** 1/2
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan @ Extreme Rules - **** 1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho @ Extreme Rules - ****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

1. Punk/Bryan - OTL - ****3/4
2. Taker/Trips - WM - ****1/2
3. Sheamus/Bryan - ER - ****1/2
4. Punk/Jericho - WM - ****1/4
5. Punk/Henry - Raw 4/2 - ****1/4
6. Lesnar/Cena - ER - ****1/4
7. Punk/Jericho - ER - ****1/4
8. Punk/Henry - Raw 4/16 - ****
9. Punk/Kane/Bryan - NWO - ****
10. Tie Christian/Rhodes - NWO - ***3/4 and Orton/Kane - ER - ***3/4

Missing Rey big time. :sad:

I've gotta add that Ziggler/Christian from a couple weeks ago is awesome. Not enough to make the top ten but really good match. I'd recommend it.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Top 3:
1. Taker/HHH WM28 
2. Lesnar/Cena ER
3. Punk/Jericho ER

(Y)


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Best PPV Matches:*

Cena/Brock ****1/2
Sheamus/Bryan ****1/2
Punk/Bryan ****1/4
End of an Era ****1/4
Jericho/Punk(WM) ****

*Other mentions:*
Raw elimination chamber , OTL fatal 4 way , Punk/Jerico (ER)

Theres also been some really great tv matches such as the Punk/Henry series , Orton/Sheamus from Smackdown and the Ziggler/Punk classic on Raw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huganomics said:


> Only three stars?


Yep, ***. Ending is the biggest piece of shit ever, and the rest of the match isn't particularly great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1. Lesnar/Cena
2. Bryan/Sheamus
3. Punk/Henry 4/2
4. Punk/Jericho Mania
5. Bryan/Show 1/6

Best of WWE I've seen this year, which is practically everything talked up except for anything from EC (don't generally like Chambers anyway), OTL or the frst two Punk/Bryans back in February or something. Or live event/house show stuff. there's a Henry/Orton house show match online where Mark Henry does the Randy Orton pose. Gotta see that sometime.

EDIT- Also, I am computer-dumb. So instead I will be watching J.Day 2000 tomorrow.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

What would people rate the PPVs as a whole for 2012?

Royal Rumble ***1/2*
Elimination Chamber ****
Wrestlemania 28 ****3/4*
Extreme Rules ******
Over The Limit *****
No Way Out *****


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> What would people rate the PPV's as a whole for 2012?
> 
> Royal Rumble ***1/2*
> Elimination Chamber ****
> ...


I suppose:

Rumble **3/4
Elimination Chamber **
Wrestlemania 28 ****1/2
Extreme Rules ****1/4
Over The Limit ***
No Way Out n/a (didn't watch)

My favourite match of the year so far is Sheamus v Bryan 2/3 falls.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Elimination Chamber *****
WM 28 ******
Extreme Rules *****1/2*
Over The Limit ****1/4*


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Watched the Big Show vs Undertaker LMS match from Cyber Sunday 2008 again today. Still love that match, really big slugfest. ***3/4 or **** for it, best big man match in ages.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MOTY List:

Trips/Taker Mania 28
Cena/Lesnar ER
Punk/Jericho ER
Bryan/Seamus

I haven't seen Punk/Bryan OTL yet.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

1. The Undertaker vs. Triple H (WM 28) ****1/4
2. Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena ****1/4
3. Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules) ****
4. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (Over The Limit) ****
5. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) ***1/2

I didn't watch the Punk/Bryan, Punk/Ziggler and Punk/Henry TV series.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Top ten matches of the year

1. Undertaker vs Triple H WM ****3/4
2. Daniel Bryan V CM Punk OTL ****1/2
3. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ER ****1/4
4. CM Punk V Chris Jericho WM ****
5. Daniel Bryan V Sheamus ER ****
6. Daniel Bryan V CM Punk SD ***3/4
7. Brock Lesnar V John Cena ER ***3/4
8. Chris Jericho V Orton V Sheamus V Del Rio OTL ***3/4
9. The Rock v John Cena WM ***3/4
10. Daniel Bryan V CM Punk V Kane ***1/2

CM Punk wrestler of the year two years in a row?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Um, I don't know. Randy Orton and Christian are my 2011 wrestlers of the year. I call Punk "superstar of the year".


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

-wrestler of the 2012: John Cena
-the most outstanding: CM Punk


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

My top 5 of 2012 so far according to the ratings I've got saved on this laptop would be:

1. Undertaker v HHH - HIAC (WM28) *****
2. CM Punk v Daniel Bryan (OTL) ****1/2
3. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Chicago Street Fight (ER) ****1/2
4. Brock Lesnar v John Cena (ER) - Extreme Rules match ****
5. Sheamus v Daniel Bryan - 2 Out of 3 Falls (ER) ****

I don't remember loving Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules as much as I must have to give it ****1/2, I need to watch it again soon. That top 5 is also excluding Austin Aries v Samoa Joe from Slammiversary, which I've got at ****1/2 as well, so that'd push Sheamus/Bryan out if I added it. Honourable mention goes to Sheamus/Ziggler from NWO as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Ricky Steamboat : The Life Story of a Dragon*

_Disc One : Documentary + Extras_

This is a DVD/documentary dedicated to one of the greatest performers of all time, Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat. So just like Steamboat in his career, this documentary exemplifies the humble persona that he has, not needing a lengthy 2 hour documentary but instead going for a short over an hour feature that never has a dull moment. The documentary on Steamboat's career has very few chapters, but every major stage of Steamboat's career is covered in depth by the man himself plus many other opponents/admirers of his over the years. 

We start off talking about Steamboat's childhood and subsequent entry into the wrestling world, where he pays respect to his family as well as the people who trained him such as the great Verne Gagne himself. From there on out we dive into his entry into Jim Crockett Promotions, his tag team run with Jay Youngblood, and early main event run with Ric Flair. Once again, Steamboat pays nothing but respect to people like Ric Flair and Jay Youngblood, who he feels elevated his own in ring work to a higher standard.

The WWF years are covered in great detail, mostly focusing on his early entry and subsequent feuds with Randy Savage and Jake Roberts. the WM III match is covered and talked about in great length as well. His second run with the WWF isn't talked about as much, but Steamboat goes into detail over why he left the second time around and how he couldn't agree with some of the things the company was doing at the time. 

His trilogy with Flair and small run as WHC are both documented well, with Steamboat saying that his favourite of the trilogy is the COTC encounter (Fuck Yeah) and AGAIN giving Flair a bunch of the credit for the series being some of the greatest matches ever. What a humble guy, wow. Then his final WCW days are covered with him elevating Steve Austin to a main event standard in WCW although the management didn't know what to do with him.

His comeback and Hall of Fame induction wrap this one up. His comeback was certainly one of the greatest comebacks of all time, and it's talked about in depth with the people who experienced it such as Jericho, Flair, etc. That caps off a very very good documentary from probably the most underrated wrestler of all time in the eyes of the casual fan. Any real wrestling fan will be able to tell you that Ricky Steamboat is one of the greatest in ring performers of all time, which leads us to......

The extras on this disc are an indication of how underrated Steamboat was as a promo/interview guy, as we get various interviews/promos/vignettes on this disc throughout his career that are extremely entertaining, showing why Steamboat is the greatest all around babyface of all time perhaps. We also get lots of deleted scenes and stories from the documentary that are a very good watch. Fantastic stuff all around, his complete HOF induction brings this disc full circle. One of the best combinations of a documentary/Disc 1 extras that I've ever seen.

*9/10*

_Disc 2_

Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood vs Jack & Jerry Brisco Starrcade 83 : **** 1/2*
Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair Boogie Jam 84 : **** 1/2*
Ricky Steamboat vs Cowboy Bob Orton 1985 : ******
Ricky Steamboat vs Don Muraco 1985 : *****
Ricky Steamboat vs Jake Roberts 1986 : *****
Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage WM III : *******

Great match selection for the second disc here, as we're treated to nothing but GREAT matches from a man who rarely had a bad match in him EVER. To run this match selection down ; We get a great old school tag team match that focuses on the connection between Steamboat and Youngblood, an earlier Flair-Steamboat encounter that while it lacks what the trilogy offered, was a great match in itself (and with an hour to work with, made for a great commentary track between Striker and Steamboat), a forgotten near classic with Bob Orton that surprised the hell out of me, a pair of pretty good WWF matches that ooze with psychology, and Steamboat's best WWF match and one of the greatest matches in WM history in Savage-Steamboat (that also makes for a great alternate commentary track). Consistency all around, some people may complain about the overly long Flair match, but it's a great unreleased match so who cares ? My personal favourite on this would be the Bob Orton match as I honestly didn't expect the match to be that great. Some good, exclusive content on this disc with the bes match being a repeat from previous sets, but with a new twist (an alternate commentary).

_Disc Three_

Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair 2/3 Falls COTC VI : *******
Ricky Steamboat vs Lex Luger GAB 89 : ******
Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zybysko COTC XVII : ******
Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude Ironman BB 92 : ***** 1/2*
Ricky Steamboat vs Steve Austin Saturday Night 92 : **** 1/4*
Ricky Steamboat vs Chris Jericho BL 09 : **** 3/4*

Disc three features all the consistency that was in disc two, except that these matches are even better than the previous disc. Just the fact that we start off the disc with the second greatest match of all time IMO is worth the price of this DVD alone. After that we get 3 amazing encounters that I BELIEVE are exclusive to this DVD, including Lex Luger's best non-Flair match, Steamboat and Arn stealing the show in a tag, and the greatest ironman match of all time. From there we get to see a great Austin-Steamboat match that isn't quite as good as their last COTC encounter but is still great, and the comeback match vs Chris Jericho (in which I probably have it rated higher than anybody else, but I love it so...Fuck it). One of the best discs in terms of match quality ever. Every match on this disc is show stealing material, and if I haven't already stated this before, IT FEATURES THE SECOND GREATEST MATCH EVER.

_Final Thoughts_

I never thought in my life that a single DVD could make me look at a particular wrestler in a different light, but this one definitely proved me wrong. Before this DVD, I saw Ricky Steamboat as a consistent worked with not alot of mic skills, and as a matter of fact I would have called Steamboat downright boring (before I saw the Flair trilogy that is). This man is one of the most humble men in the business, giving props to every one of his opponents and deflecting all praise to the people who he feels helped him along the way, one of the true class acts. The doc is concise, but one of the better ones that WWE has produced, and the disc one extras made me realize how much pure babyface charisma Ricky Steamboat actually had, making him more of an all around package in my eyes.

The matches speak for themselves, as we get TWO ***** clashes on this set, and numerous other ***-**** 1/2 encounters on this set, most of them being exclusive and many of them being unreleased classics. One of the most consistent match listings I've ever seen on any DVD, definitely trumping anything that has came out over the past 2-3 years for sure. This in my mind is a must buy for all wrestling fans, as we get to see one of the greatest careers in wrestling history come full circle. Buy this DVD, and pay tribute to the greatest pure babyface in wrestling history, Ricky Steamboat. Amazing.

*9.25/10*


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Undertaker vs. Big Show Cyber Sunday 2008 - ****1/4

One of the best big man matches ever.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Top 3 matches of 2012:

1.Undertaker vs. HHH - WM28
2.Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - ER 
3.CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ER


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I think Punk and Jericho's Wrestlemania match was way better than the ER street fight.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

1. Cm Punk vs Daniel Bryan Over the Limit
2. Undertaker vs Triple H WM28
3. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus EXtreme Rules



JoeRulz said:


> -wrestler of the 2012: John Cena
> -the most outstanding: CM Punk


Punk's been wrestler of the year
Cena's been great as has Daniel Bryan.But Punk has put on far better matches for me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

****+ matches of 2012

End of an Era WM 28 - **** 3/4
Lesnar/Cena ER - **** 1/2
Punk/Bryan OTL - **** 1/2
Sheamus/Bryan ER - **** 1/4
Rock/Cena WM 28 - ****
Punk/Jericho WM 28 - ****
Punk/Jericho ER - ****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can't give Cena WOTY because of the way his matches have been booked this year. Other than the Brock match, he really hasn't done anything outstanding.

We need Rey. :sad:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Damn right Brye. I miss Rey and I hope he is fully recovered and settles whatever other issues he may have before he gets back. He's one of the most consistent WWE in ring performers of the last 10 years.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I would kill to see another Dolph/Rey feud. Their Summerslam '09 match was awesome and I think they could trump it now.

There's actually so many Rey matches I'd like to see.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair Boogie Jam 84 : **** 1/2*
> Ricky Steamboat vs Cowboy Bob Orton 1985 : ******
> Ricky Steamboat vs Don Muraco 1985 : *****
> Ricky Steamboat vs Jake Roberts 1986 : *****


Watched these recently and loved them. Flair match is so incredibly smartly worked, and the special guest commentary realy says all about it that needs to be said. They do so much with so little and the crowd goes apeshit for it. I went apeshit for it. Tremendous match.

Orton and Muraco matches were just really fun. The Muraco match is the first time I've ever been happy to see a lumberjack match over a singles match, since Muraco kinda blows and I'll take any sort of stipuation I can get with him. Orton match was just fucking great.

I was blown away by Steamboat/Snake. Jake was amazing in it. I never took part in any list where I had to make the top 100 WWE matches ever, but I'd consider this for my top 50. Adored it.



greendayedgehead said:


> I think Punk and Jericho's Wrestlemania match was way better than the ER street fight.


Also, this. I'm probably alone, but the street fight went too long and by the time it went fifteen minutes I really wanted to end. Didn't think it was bad, but if I had to choose _between_ 'bad' and 'good'....I'd choose bad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I feel like I've underrated the earlier Flair-Steamboat match. I flip-flopped my ratings from **** to *** 3/4 to *** 1/2 , and I'm still uneasy with that rating as this was one of the harder ones to rate imo. If you factor in the guest commentary, it's **** easily IMO.

Fucking love that Orton match, he was so agile in it, kipping up and doing all kinds of crazy holds and shit, Muraco's match was fun but the worst on the disc (that certainly doesn't mean it's bad AT ALL).

Steamboat-Savage match was so full of psychology. I swear to god that every punch Jake takes means something to the context of the story being told. I have no idea why he wasn't ever given a belt or anything, he could have been something REALLY special. Maybe if he was on top he would have cleaned his act up as well, who knows ? 

Gonna start watching the Cheating Death , Stealing Life DVD tonight I think. Might even watch the entire two discs in one sitting since I might have to pull an all nighter. On a side note, I just picked up the ECW unreleased Vol 1 DVD, so that'll be next in line. I still have a Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen review to post as well


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

On Rey's return, I would LOVE to see him feud with Daniel Bryan. I feel those two could put on some reallllly good matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I feel like I've underrated the earlier Flair-Steamboat match. I flip-flopped my ratings from **** to *** 3/4 to *** 1/2 , and I'm still uneasy with that rating as this was one of the harder ones to rate imo. If you factor in the guest commentary, it's **** easily IMO.


that's one of the reasons I gave up the snowflakes. "Is this ***1/2? IDK, it's not REALLY as good as this other ***1/2 match, but there's a ***3/4 match over here I think it's just as good as." I'm convinced have OCD or something, though. 

I have no idea why he wasn't ever given a belt or anything, he could have been something REALLY special. [/quote]

Honestly through that whole match all I could think of (other than :mark: :mark :mark is what the back were thinking never giving Jake the IC Title. He should have gotten the Honky Tonk Man run.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Since Money in the Bank is coming up, what are your top 5 MITB ladder matches?

Mine:
1. Wrestlemania XXIV
2. Wrestlemania 21
3. Smackdown Money in the Bank 2011
4. Smackdown Money in the Bank 2010
5. Raw Money in the Bank 2011


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Since Money in the Bank is coming up, what are your top 5 MITB ladder matches?
> 
> Mine:
> 1. Wrestlemania XXIV
> ...


1. Wrestlemania XXI : ***** 1/2*
2. Wrestlemania XXIV : ***** 1/4*
3. Smackdown MITB 2011 : ******
4. Raw MITB 2011 : **** 1/2*
5. Wrestlemania XXII : **** 1/2*

Seems like nowadays there's always a consensus top 2 every year for MOTY ever since 2009. However, in the years 2007 and 2008 there were many different directions that you could go for MOTY, here are a few of the potential canidates IMO :

2007: Orton-HHH LMS NM 07 , HBK-Orton SS 07 , Cena vs Umaga RR , Cena vs Umaga NYR , Cena vs HBK I AND II , Backlash 4 Way, ANY Undertaker-Batista match really, NWO 07 Tag.

2008: Any Michaels-Jericho match, any Undertaker-Edge match, HBK-Flair (if you like it that much) , Taker-Show (a few to choose from) , Batista-HBK, and so on and so forth.

For 2008 I have Undertaker vs Edge HIAC at Summerslam 2008 as my definitive MOTY (***** 1/2*) , but I'm having a hard time choosing my 2007 MOTY, because I have FOUR matches (Orton-HHH, Batista-Taker WM 23 , Cena-Umaga RR , NWO tag) at ***** 1/2* ... SO hard to decide, but I'd probably order them like this ATM:

1. Cena-Umaga 
2. HHH-Orton
3. Batista/taker vs HBK/Cena
4. Undertaker-Batista

Thoughts on the MOTY's for these two years ? Like to get lots of opinions on this.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

There was one match I thought was the definitive MOTY in 2008 was Michaels-Flair but that wouldn't be fair since I didn't watch a lot of 2008 lol

As for 2007, Cena-Michaels Wrestlemania (don't remember II that well), Cena-Umaga Royal Rumble, and Undertaker-Batista Wrestlemania are my MOTY candidates but if I had to choose, it'll be Cena-Michaels Wrestlemania.

Come to think of it, Cena had a boss year in 2007


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker/Batista WM23 is my MOTY for 2007 and Taker/Edge SSlam for 2008 although at times I'm tempted to switch those with Orton/Michaels SSeries and Michaels/Flair WM24.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Definitely Cena/Umaga for 07. #2 would probably be Cena/Michaels 1 and I don't think it's even close to being as good as Cena/Umaga. Not 100% sure about 2008, but Taker/Show LMS is the best thing I can remember seeing. Good chunk of stuff that year that's pretty much just as good as it. Flair/Michaels, Trip/Hardy, I loved one of the Michaels/Jerichos. Unforgiven, I think.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

2008 also had a very good HHH/Cena match from Night of Champions.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

You know what? People talk about Cena in 2007 but Michaels was awesome that year too even if though he spent a few months injured.

DX/Rated RKO - *** 3/4 
Edge Street Fight Raw - *** 3/4
Final Two in the Rumble with Taker - fucking incredible
HBK/Orton/Edge #1 Contender's Match Raw - *** 1/4
Michaels & Cena vs. Taker/Batista - *** 3/4
Cena WM23 - **** 1/4
Cena Raw 4/23 - **** 1/4
Backlash 4-way - **** 1/4
Orton Cyber Sunday - ***
Orton Survivor Series - **** 1/2
Kennedy Armageddon - *** 1/4


Cena's best including the Michaels matches

Umaga NYR - ***
Umaga Rumble - **** 1/4
Vengeance 5-way - *** 1/4
Lashley GAB - *** 1/4
Orton SS - *** 1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> You what? People talk about Cena in 2007 but Michaels was awesome that year too even if though he spent a few months injured.


who/which comment is this aimed at?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm just making a general statement about Shawn producing some quality stuff in a year that people believe was a completely terrible year, and only Cena had a solid string of matches. The Taker/Batista series was excellent too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> *You what?* People talk about Cena in 2007 but Michaels was awesome that year too even if though he spent a few months injured.


I read this and thought you were questioning someone.  

Speaking of 2007, no one talks about Cena's (or anybody else's, really) TV year other than the long Enlgand match. I'm going to go on youtube and see what Cena's TV stuff was like. Probably be a nostalgia trip, too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Aw that's suppose to be "You know what?" to start a new conversation. 

I remember a big multi-man tag happening on Raw that year but nothing else stands out at the moment to me for Cena on TV.

Edge/Orton Raw after Backlash, the Taker/Batista Cage Match, MVP/Benoit had a good match after Mania I believe, Punk/Morrison ECW Sept, and Taker/Finlay SD March. Edge/Benoit in June was fantastic.

ECW 8-man extreme rules tag right after Mania was a bunch of fun as was the Michaels/Edge street fight and the Edge/Orton/HBK match I mentioned. HHH/Flair had a very impressive TV match on Raw at the end of the year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Aw, that's suppose to be "You know what?" to start a new conversation.


heh, thought so. 



Clique said:


> I remember a big multi-man tag happening on Raw that year but nothing else stands out at the moment to me for Cena on TV.


I remember:

-three-way with Umaga and Khali
-Cena/Edge from the draft where Edge got drafted (I think..)
-Benoit tapping to him.
-An "All Champions" match with Cena and Candice facing Umaga and Cade/Murdoch.
-The Battle Royal where he and Shawn won the belts.
-a No Way Out tag re-match.
-he got injured against Kennedy, right?


I doubt I'll find anything as good as Cena/Michaels 2 or Benoit/Edge, but it's worth a look. I'll probably comment in here. Speaking of which:

-----



Spoiler: Iron Man~!



The Rock v HHH (WWF Judgment Day 5/21/00)
--I don't know if I want to say this felt like an hour, because that'd sound like an insult, but it definitely felt like an hour. In a good way. By the 25 minute mark both guys looked absolutely SPENT, and whether they were really tried or not (they were), it really got over the story of the match being 60 minutes long. And fuck me this was a great match. This was sort of a bunch of individual matches that make up one big match and one big story, without any breaks. First fall was really well done; Helmsley works the arm, guys go back and forth, and the Rock gets a quick Rock Bottom pinfall within ten minutes. It might bother someone that Hunter worked the arm and it went nowhere, but I'd rather think that Trip thought to go for the arm to start, and but by the time he gets pinned he's thinking "well that didn't work; I won't bother with the arm anymore". The outside stuff after the first fall was fine, but what it really sets up is the Rock putting a bullseye on HHH's leg by ramming it here and there. Loved the way Trip was selling it, too. Even when gets back in control it takes him forever to do a suplex or an elbow drop because of that leg. And the Rock has a major advantage because it doesn't matter how much Trip does to get back on offense, he can just kick the leg and have full control again. Long-ass figure four spot was worked really well too; Hunter was yelling for Shawn and punching the Rocks leg to try and get out of it, and then by the time they're in the ropes he looks like total mess with his elbow pads near his hands. Total mess? That was after the Rock after the Pedigree. All loopy and out of it, and I was actually pretty dumbfounded when Trip got another pinfall off of a cradle. I think that's one thing I actually really, really like about iron mans- stuff that doesn't end a match can end a fall, and the ref will be less lenient without count-outs and stuff. Except for Shawn Michaels, who said we ain't getting any BS double count-outs. DQs? He decides THAT''S fine when Trip goes the Rick Rude route and nails the Rock with a chair to get a good fall from him. I love that spot. And I love what it leads to- more loopy Rock! Guy's have been wrestling around 45 minutes by the time Trip swung the chair, and they look far, far more spent than they did at the 25 minute point. These aren't the kind of dudes who could "Ric Flair" and pull 60 minute matches out multiple times a week. The Rock bleeding off of the chair lets Trip use the sleeper to literally put him to sleep, and by then Trip is up 5-3 with a little over ten minutes to go. Crowd boo like mad and they make it seem like there's little possible way the Rock can fire a comeback in time since he looks dead with the blood on his head. His solution is to bloody HHH's head to match his own. hits his own Pedigree on the table and he says "fuck it. I'm desperate- I need a count-out". What I really loved about his was there weren't really any moments in the sixty minutes that were used to fill time or were just flat out boring. I saw sub-fifteen minute matches on the same card, and some of it was worthless shit. In this we have something ALWAYS going on, and I immediately thought that when the McMahons decided to step out. They just got whooped all over the place, obviously, but it leads to the big Undertaker return. Which is bittersweet. Sweet= Taker's back! He's kicking evil-people's arses! Bitter= shitty biker character...Shawn saw him.....he pretty much hand-fed the Title to HHH. Crowd boos. I don't, I thought HHH ruled in this. There's an enormous amount of flack against him, and I've been going to back to 2000..... thinking it's not as good as I thought it was, but he looked really great for this sixty minutes. Honestly it might be his career performance. Really close, at least. Is HHH's 2000 as good as 2 Cold Scorpio's 1996? No. Steven Regal's 1994? No. Rey Mysterio's 2006? No. I don't care, he was really fucking good here, he was really fucking good in 2000, THIS was really fucking good. Awesome match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah none of those matches are note-worthy other than the NWO re-match. 

I'm pleased to see you enjoyed the Iron Man. I love that match and it's probably my favorite match of 2000. Rock and Hunter were awesome in it and the finish was glorious chaos!


Here's the MVP/Benoit match I was talking about - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1vbjw_wwe-smackdown-4-13-chris-benoit-vs_sport?search_algo=1


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

PGSucks said:


> On Rey's return, I would LOVE to see him feud with Daniel Bryan. I feel those two could put on some reallllly good matches.


I hope that's Bryan's first feud after he's out of the title picture. So I'm hoping that'll be around...October? Still gives him a big feud to stay relevant and of course, the matches could be MOTY quality.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> 1. Wrestlemania XXI : ***** 1/2*
> 2. Wrestlemania XXIV : ***** 1/4*
> 3. Smackdown MITB 2011 : ******
> 4. Raw MITB 2011 : **** 1/2*
> ...


2007: Undertaker/Batista WM23 with Cena/Umaga RR07 and Cena/HBK Raw in London being really really close.

2008: Undertaker/Edge SS08, easily.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2007 - Undertaker Vs Batista WM, Undertaker Vs Batista CS

2008 - Undertaker Vs Edge WM, Randy Orton Vs John Cena NWO


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Top 50 Finishing Moves listing is out

*Disc 1 *


Spoiler: Top 50 List



50. JBL - Clothesline

49. Vader - Vader Bomb

48. Dusty Rhodes - Bionic Elbow

47. Million Dollar Man - Million Dollar Dream

46. Kerry Von Erich - Iron Claw

45. Ravishing Rick Rude - Rude Awakening

44. Lex Luger - Torture Rack

43. Dudley Boyz - 3-D

42. Bam Bam Bigelow - Moonsault

41. DDP - Diamond Cutter

40. Mankind - Mandible Claw / Socko

39. Honky Tonk Man - Shake Rattle and Roll

38. Yokozuna - Bonzai Drop

37. Flash Funk - 450 Splash

36. Sting - Scorpion Lock

35. Lita - Moonsault

34. Kevin Nash - Jack-knife

33. Jerry The King Lawler - Piledriver

32. RVD - Five-Star Frog Splash

31. Big Show - Chokeslam

30. CM Punk - GTS

29. Brock Lesnar - F-5

28. Bob Backlund - Chicken Wing

27. Batista - Batista Bomb

26. Mr. Perfect - Perfect Plex

25. Kurt Angle - Ankle Lock

24. Chris Jericho - Lion Tamer / Walls of Jericho

23. Edge - Spear

22. Iron Sheik - Camel Clutch

21. John Cena - Attitude Adjustment

20. Scott Hall - Razors Edge

19. Goldberg - Jackhammer

18. Rey Mysterio - 6-1-9

17. Road Warriors - Doomsday Device

16. Bruno Sammartino - Bearhug

15. Sgt. Slaughter - Cobra Clutch

14. Jeff Hardy - Swanton Bomb

13. Eddie Guerrero - Frog Splash

12. Macho Man Randy Savage - Elbow off Top Rope

11. Randy Orton - RKO

10. Bret Hitman Hart - Sharpshooter

9. Jimmy Superfly Snuka - Superfly Splash

8. Nature Boy Ric Flair - Figure Four Leg Lock

7. Hulk Hogan - Leg Drop

6. Shawn Michaels - Sweet Chin Music

5. Jake The Snake Roberts - DDT

4. The Rock - Rock Bottom / Peoples Elbow

3. Triple H - Pedigree

2. Undertaker - Tombstone Piledriver

1. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Stunner

DVD Exclusives on Disc 1

Bonus: X-Pac - X-Factor

Bonus: Booker T - Spinarooni

Bonus: John Morrison - Starship Pain

Bonus: Scotty Too Hotty - The Worm

Bonus: Rikishi - Stinkface

Bonus: Shane McMahon - Coast to Coast

Bonus: Billy Kidman - Shooting Star Press



*Disc 2*
Sgt. Slaughter Demonstrates The Cobra Clutch on Tony Anthony
World Wide Wrestling – 10th December, 1981

DDT vs. Rude Awakening Match
Jake “The Snake” Roberts vs. “Ravishing” Rick Rude
Madison Square Garden – 24th October, 1988

WWE Intercontinental Championship Match
Mr. Perfect vs. Texas Tornado
Dayton, Ohio – 13th January, 1991

WWE Championship Match
Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. Bob Backlund
Superstars – 30th July, 1994

WCW World Tag Team Championship Match
Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. The Giant & Lex Luger
SuperBrawl VII – 23rd February, 1997

King of the Ring Semi-Final Match
Mankind vs. Jerry “The King” Lawler
King of the Ring – 8th June, 1997

Rob Van Dam vs. 2 Cold Scorpio
Living Dangerously – 1st March, 1998

Four Corners Match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Hollywood Hogan vs. Sting
With Special Guest Referee “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Spring Stampede –11th April, 1999

*Disc 3*
Chris Jericho & The Rock vs. Kurt Angle & Stone Cold Steve Austin
SmackDown – 15th November, 2001

Rob Van Dam & Bubba Ray Dudley vs. Brock Lesnar & Eddie Guerrero
Raw - 3rd June, 2002

No Disqualification Tag Team Match
Shawn Michaels & Jeff Hardy vs. Chris Jericho & Christian
Raw – 17th February, 2003

The Rock vs. Goldberg
Backlash – 27th April, 2003

6-Man Elimination Match
Bubba Ray, DVon & Spike Dudley vs. Evolution (Triple H, ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair & Randy Orton)
Raw – 14th July, 2003

WWE Women’s Championship Match
Trish Stratus vs. Lita
Raw 6th December, 2004

Fatal 4-Way Elimination Match to become the Number One Contender for the World Heavyweight Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton vs. JBL vs. Chris Jericho
Raw – 29th December, 2008

Fatal 4-Way Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk
Bragging Rights – 25th October, 2009

Six Pack Challenge Elimination Match for the WWE Championship
Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Edge vs. Wade Barrett
Night of Champions – 9th September, 2010

*Blu-Ray Bonus*
Triple H & Undertaker vs. Big Show & Edge
SmackDown – 6th February, 2009

Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy & The Great Khali vs. Edge, Dolph Ziggler & Chris Jericho
Raw – 22nd June, 2009

No Disqualification, 6-Man Tag Team Match
Mr. McMahon & D-Generation X (Shawn Michaels & Triple H) vs. Randy Orton & Legacy (Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase)
Raw – 24th August, 2009

Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match
Team Mysterio (Rey Mysterio, Big Show, Chris Masters, Kofi Kingston, & MVP) vs. Team Alberto (Alberto
Del Rio, Cody Rhodes, Jack Swagger, Drew McIntyre, & Tyler Reks)
Survivor Series – 21st November, 2010

John Cena & Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk & R-Truth
With Special Guest Referee Bret “Hitman” Hart
Raw – 23rd May, 2011


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bunch of TV matches, nice. Chris Jericho & The Rock vs. Kurt Angle & Stone Cold Steve Austin - SmackDown – 15th November, 2001 making the set it pretty cool.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

KingCal said:


> Bunch of TV matches, nice. Chris Jericho & The Rock vs. Kurt Angle & Stone Cold Steve Austin - SmackDown – 15th November, 2001 making the set it pretty cool.


Am I right in thinking that is the tag match which ended in all the survivor series participants interfering and nailing each other with finishers... Sounds obvious, given the DVD title, but I honestly can't remember who was in that tag match


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Bret Hart vs Buckland from Superstars is a wrestling clinic. It is by far the best technical match in WWE history. A true 5 stars match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fatal 4-Way Elimination Match to become the Number One Contender for the World Heavyweight Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton vs. JBL vs. Chris Jericho
Raw – 29th December, 2008

Was that the match when JBL had HBK do all the work for him and then just get nailed by a Clothesline From Hell? If so I really enjoyed the story that went with that match.

And the doc could be a fun watch.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Brye said:


> Fatal 4-Way Elimination Match to become the Number One Contender for the World Heavyweight Championship
> Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton vs. JBL vs. Chris Jericho
> Raw – 29th December, 2008
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think it is. HBK just stood there and took it like a bitch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Fatal 4-Way Elimination Match to become the Number One Contender for the World Heavyweight Championship
> Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton vs. JBL vs. Chris Jericho
> Raw – 29th December, 2008
> 
> ...


Pretty sure that's the match. Man, I remember really loving that whole story, and the RR and EC matches that were part of it (JBL/Cena and JBL/HBK). Weren't classic matches, but both used the story really well in the matches and I enjoyed them a ton. And using it to move into HBK/Undertaker was pretty well done too.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I had a blackout at home so I had to watch something and luckily, I had some matches from earlier in the 2000's on my iPhone. Ended up watching Benoit/Angle vs. Edge/Mysterio vs. Los Guerreros from Survivor Series.

I enjoyed it. It wasn't on the level of the encounters between Benoit/Angle vs. Edge/Mysterio straight up, but the Guerreros added that extra dynamic when they were involved, and even when they weren't because of how they played it smart and mainly were involved when Angle and Benoit got eliminated. With the talent in the match, it's a given you'd get a great match and I really enjoyed this one.

I'd give this match a ***3/4. I'm probably gonna start digging for more matches around this time (2002/2003, especially from the Smackdown side).


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

PGSucks said:


> On Rey's return, I would LOVE to see him feud with Daniel Bryan. I feel those two could put on some reallllly good matches.


QFT

Gosh could you imagine, rey's an incredible worker and babyface, bryan could let out his agressive douchebag heel style and gosh they would play off each other so well. Give them 15-25 minutes and they would put on MOTYC type matches.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

lemo said:


> Bret Hart vs Buckland from Superstars is a wrestling clinic. It is by far the best technical match in WWE history. A true 5 stars match.


Absolutely brilliant.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Had little interest in the greatest finishers DVD when they announced it but I have to say I'm impressed with the match listing.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

lemo said:


> Bret Hart vs Buckland from Superstars is a wrestling clinic. It is by far the best technical match in WWE history. A true 5 stars match.





Cookie Monster said:


> Absolutely brilliant.


The storytelling of the match is top notch. You have Buckland for the first time after 11 years challenging for WWE title against the most fighting champion of all time Bret Hart. The 2 are both technicions masters & have big respect for each others, so at the beggining of the match you have a brilliant exchange of mat wrestling with Buckland being more aggressive which showed how much he is into the opportunity to win the title & he wanted to show everybody he still got it. Bret is with him on each hold & shows he is nothing less than Buckland when it's comes for pure wrestling. The pace of the match picks up but with phenomenal psychology as both men remain thier offense with the body parts they've been working on. The ending is just phenomenal with breathtaking near falls, Buckland is going crazy & starting to show his depression by using every wrestling move & pinfalls attemps possible to win the match but Bret outwrestling Buckland at the end the vetran with a small package to win the match. Textbook wrestling clinic Bret wanted to show his respect for the battle & went to shakes Buckland hand, Buckland is in disbelief as he was so close to win the title & he knows it may be his last opportunity for the title. So Buckland snapps & put Bret in the Chicken Wing. Crowd is on shocked as one of the most brilliant chracter transmission & amazing heel turn have just happened.

*****


----------



## SinJackal (Sep 13, 2011)

Platt said:


> Top 50 Finishing Moves listing is out
> 
> *Disc 1 *
> 
> ...


Triple H's placement on the list is absurdly high. He especially should not be above the person listed right before him. I have other complaints about that list, but it's embarrassing they put him that high and over the person who's listed right before him (not mentioning it in case people don't want to be spoiled).

Also, is Orton so much higher than DDP just because he's been wrestling for WWE longer? They literally have the exact same finisher, only Orton ripped it off from DDP, who did the move spectacularly more often.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Summerslam 2007 - What a horrible show.

All matches were TV standard (Did'nt mind Orton/Cena however), some crap finishes, and some awful matches.

Luckily after Unforgiven 07, WWE kind of got back on track, but still this was awful for the second biggest PPV of the year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd give my right bollock for this:


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

zep81 said:


> I'd give my right bollock for this:


I'd give my left one. 

Where on earth can you buy this? iOffer I doubt do it anymore, ever since this whole piracy thing came in, quite a lot of the stuff they had has gone down. I'd love the set with the cases/artwork.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

No Way Out 2012

1. Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler (WHC) - ***1/2
2. Santino vs Richardo - DUD
3. Christian vs Cody Rhodes - ***1/2
4. PTP vs Primo/Epico vs USOS vs Gabriel/Kidd - ***
5. Layla vs Beth Phoenix - *1/4
6. Sin Cara vs Hunico - **
7. CM Punk vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan (WWE title) - ***3/4
8. Ryback vs Jobbers - DUD
9. John Cena vs Big Show (Steel Cage) - ***

Overall, it is a pretty damn good ppv. Sure, it has a ton of filler, but it also has a lot of good quality matches. Sheamus and Ziggler gave us a great fast paced match. Some people even have this at a higher rating then me.

Christian and Rhodes gave us another awesome match with a great ending sequence. The tag team match was another fun spotfest.

The WWE title match was the MOTN and I might go with a higher rating on another watch. One of the better triple threat matches we have seen in a while. 

Cena/Show was also a pretty good match. A lot of people judge this match before it even happened and never even gave it a chance, but these two guys actually surprised me here.


----------



## PG Era Sucks (Mar 8, 2011)

Something WWE does that always pisses me off is them releasing the "Best of Saturday Night's Main Event" and "Best of King of the Ring". 

Why not do anthologies? They would sell like crazy. Instead, I have to order Silvervision DVDs from the UK, convert them on my CPU and burn them DVD-Rs so I can watch them on my player. 

I love Silvervision and how they don't have to blur the WWF Attitude logo, but the shipping kills me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Baldwin. said:


> I'd give my left one.
> 
> Where on earth can you buy this? iOffer I doubt do it anymore, ever since this whole piracy thing came in, quite a lot of the stuff they had has gone down. I'd love the set with the cases/artwork.


There is a 29 Disc one on IOffer for £40, 'only' cover up to 1997 though

Wish i could afford that one at least


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the documentary like on the Undertaker: This is my Yard DVD, thinking about getting the TC one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> What is the documentary like on the Undertaker: This is my Yard DVD, thinking about getting the TC one.


It ok, but very basic and doesn't go into much detail. I enjoy it because I'm one giant 'Taker mark, and considering it was done in 2001 its as good as it could be. Took them a couple of years to really get the documentaries down.


----------



## Emberdon (Apr 21, 2012)

How would you guys rate the Two elimination chamber matches from No way out 2009?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/2 for the SD one, ****1/4 for the Raw one.


----------



## hoit214 (Dec 26, 2005)

*Edge 2012 HOF WTF?*

I just finished watching the 2012 WWE HOF Ceremony and Edge was introduced with his final theme song, Metalingus, by Alter Bridge, and yet Edge thanked Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters for that intro... Am I missing something or did Edge make a (in my opinion) serious gaff(props to Alter Bridge) boo-boo? If I am missing something, please let me know!?!?!?!?


----------



## Emberdon (Apr 21, 2012)

*Re: Edge 2012 HOF WTF?*

The original version of his song is by foo fighters I think.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the Guerrero vs Malenko match in ECW 95 (the farewell match) ? I saw it and I was blown away but I want some more snowflake opinions before I really start formulating this. Initially I have it rated REALLY high but I might have to watch it again. The ECW atmosphere for just pure WRESTLING is amazing on that night.

Secondly, anybody know where I can find a good HHH comp ? I've been looking for one for AGES now. The ones I find, I can't find a good match listing for. It'd be fantastic to see. Plus, any MUST-HAVE comps out there, I was strongly looking to purchase a few, any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

While this technically isn't a DVD. I just purchased a lot of six WWF VHS from eBay for about twelve bucks. So pretty much two bucks a tape. The tapes I got are:

-Best of Raw Volume 1
-Best of Raw Volume 2
-Action!
-Funniest Moments
-Come Get Some
-Best of WrestleMania I-XIV

Not really sure if I got a decent deal or not. I've seen the Best of Raw (1, 2 and 3) before and liked them. Now That was the main thing that really caught my eye (now I just need to find a copy of the third volume). I've heard mixed feelings about Action! and more negative feelings about Funniest Moments. So I'm not sure what to think about those. Not sure what to think of the Best of WrestleMania either. Come Get Some is really the main one out of the bunch that doesn't really interest me.

I would like to get some of y'all's thoughts on what you think of the tapes.


----------



## The Pastor (May 19, 2012)

*Re: Edge 2012 HOF WTF?*

A friend and I have been discussing that over the last few weeks. Does anyone have the answer?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Edge 2012 HOF WTF?*

Edge was talking about the Foo Fighters song they used in his tribute video. I haven't watched the HOF disc yet but at the HOF they played the Foo Fighters song during the ceremony too (I was there).





> Thoughts on the Guerrero vs Malenko match in ECW 95 (the farewell match) ? I saw it and I was blown away but I want some more snowflake opinions before I really start formulating this. Initially I have it rated REALLY high but I might have to watch it again. The ECW atmosphere for just pure WRESTLING is amazing on that night.


I did a write-up for it in the classic wrestling review thread.


----------



## EdgeHeadBellaFan (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: Edge 2012 HOF WTF?*



hoit214 said:


> I just finished watching the 2012 WWE HOF Ceremony and Edge was introduced with his final theme song, Metalingus, by Alter Bridge, and yet Edge thanked Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters for that intro... Am I missing something or did Edge make a (in my opinion) serious gaff(props to Alter Bridge) boo-boo? If I am missing something, please let me know!?!?!?!?


He was thanking the the Foo Fighters because they let him use "Walk" in his intro video.


----------



## Hart Break Kid (Oct 5, 2009)

*has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

one that shows the said superstars whole on screen career ? in order from first tv appearance ?

i know there is loads of superstars dvd with a story of there life and bonus matches on disc 2.

but it would be great to see every raw or smackdown appearance, segments, promos, mic time leading up to a ppv then back to raw or smackdown leading up to the next ppv..... and so on until they reach present day. without having to sit through hundreds of minutes of old raw tapes to relive one or two faves careers....

has there been a dvd like this yet ?


----------



## LINK (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

No, not that I know of. That sounds awesome though.


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

That would be like, a 50 disc set, unless you want the career of Colin Delaney.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

Would be great to have a dvd like that for Braden Walker


----------



## Hart Break Kid (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

yeah i would love to buy these types of dvds of 4 or 5 superstars namely guys like austin rock hbk jericho hhh without having to sit through all the other stuff going on in raw/smackdown episodes or ppvs....

if they could splice everything each superstar has done in chronological order and then put it all together like one long movie would probably only take up 5 or 6 discs at most.... maybe one or two more for hbk and taker etc.... but damn it would be the best way to relive a superstars career u might have missed out on or were say too young to have seen without needing to watch everything else around it too which would take a lifetime!.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*



RyanPelley said:


> That would be like, a 50 disc set, unless you want the career of Colin Delaney.


Don't forget Braden Walker.


----------



## Kling Klang (Oct 6, 2011)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

Try ioffer they usually do that kind of thing.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*



Hart Break Kid said:


> yeah i would love to buy these types of dvds of 4 or 5 superstars namely guys like austin rock hbk jericho hhh without having to sit through all the other stuff going on in raw/smackdown episodes or ppvs....
> 
> if they could splice everything each superstar has done in chronological order and then put it all together like one long movie would probably only take up 5 or 6 discs at most.... maybe one or two more for hbk and taker etc.... but damn it would be the best way to relive a superstars career u might have missed out on or were say too young to have seen without needing to watch everything else around it too which would take a lifetime!.


5 or 6 discs? Are you serious? 

You can find full career sets online that people sell. It's not an official release of course but you would find everything without having to go through the effort of finding it all yourself.


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

I'd shell out some serious cash for a Shawn Michaels set like this. Mostly for his post Rockers run, that I was too young to remember much of. And to have all of the classic 1997 - 1998 heel promos.


----------



## PG Era Sucks (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*

Unless it's a bootleg fresh off the streets of Beijing, nope.

My favorite ones have to be McMahon, Cheating Death Stealing Life: The Eddie Guerrero Story and The Stone Cold Truth. 

Love the DVDs with documentaries in them.


----------



## paulborklaserheyma (Jun 12, 2012)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*










There you have it.


----------



## Hart Break Kid (Oct 5, 2009)

yeah i recalculated it.... with the big superstars getting 30 mins an episode of raw/smackdown match and promo/segment included
times that by 52 weeks a year and then ppv matches and promos your looking at about 1700 mins a year for one superstar....

so would need to release them year by year and even then it would be a huge boxset for just one year...

but they would sell and vince is all about the money 

just do it like they did the beatles anthology with maybe posters and stuff from that year of each superstar... you know collectables.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: has there been a superstar dvd like this ?*



11rob2k said:


> Would be great to have a dvd like that for Braden Walker





paulborklaserheyma said:


> There you have it.


And here's the trailer:


----------



## sexytyrone97 (Apr 2, 2012)

Anyone else think that the Stone Cold/Undertaker First Blood, "End of an Era" match from 1998 was pretty bad?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Hart Break Kid said:


> yeah i recalculated it.... with the big superstars getting 30 mins an episode of raw/smackdown match and promo/segment included
> times that by 52 weeks a year and then ppv matches and promos your looking at about 1700 mins a year for one superstar....
> 
> so would need to release them year by year and even then it would be a huge boxset for just one year...
> ...


You'd be surprised how many discs it would take, for example Brock Lesnars 2 year run takes up 21 discs and CM Punk run of 5 1/2 years takes up 75 discs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is there a good site to advertise VHS Videos for sale apart from EBay? Looking to sell some of these (maybe not all atm)

All PAL

SuperBrawl I
SuperBrawl II
SuperBrawl III
Wrestle War 1991
Halloween Havoc 1990
Halloween Havoc 1992
Great American Bash 1991
Great American Bash 1992
Capitol Combat 1990


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Minutes are irrelevant, it's all about size of what your downloading.

For example when apple say there iPod can fit 3,000 songs, that's based on every song being 3mb. Some songs however can be 8mb at a time even stretching to 18mb if it's been poorly compressed. Therefore 3,000 will be massively reduced.

Like Platt said, you'll be surprised. Some PPV matches I have downloaded can range from 100mb to 600mb+.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally got Rise and Fall of ECW and ECW Bloodsport: Most Violent matches DVD's, had to resort to getting the Region 1's as here in the UK they have become extinct it seems, really looking forward to the Rise one.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Purchased MITB 11, Summerslam 11 and ECW ONS 06

Really looking forward to MITB and rewatching Cena/Punk again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone seen the Legends of Wrestling - NWO programme with Mene Gene from last year? Just wondered how long it's on for. Thanks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its about 1 hour 15 minutes long, and really good .


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I really, really like the Legends of Wrestling Rountable Discussions. Shame that they haven't been released in the UK, bar the Heatseekers one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Its about 1 hour 15 minutes long, and really good .


(Y) Thanks mate, my internet is shit so just wondered if it was worth the hassle downloading, think i will, cheers


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One thing I really liked about it was the explanation of the finger poke of doom, which I'd never heard talked about before (not even in Nash's shoot interview... though I could have simply forgot lol). Doesn't excuse the shittiness of the booking of it, but does tell us how they were going to use it to really build up the NWO and Goldberg again.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE, Over The Limit 2012)*

Fantastic match really. I was shocked to see them working stiff style like that, kudos. It was nice to see something like that in WWE (aside Lesnar/Cena), they wrestled a grand Junior style match, with a ton of reverseals, and fast back-and-forht action. Bryan is insanely over, so he needs to turn face ASAP, and his YES! shtick is making him a legit superstar, they need to pull the trigger with the man, ffs. They told a simple story about knowing each other so well, and the strategies and game plans were simple and effective - Punk was going after DBD's leg, and DBD was going after Punk's ribs. I loved the finish, Bryan looked damn strong there. To sum up, this was fantastic, and we need to see them going 1-on-1 again. MOTY(C), no doubt about it.
*Rating: ****1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Jean-Paul Levesque vs Alex Wright : Starrcade 1994_

So this is where it all began for HHH on PPV....... And it's on Starrcade in a jobbing effort to Alex Wright. Okay, if you didn't know about this, HOW many of you would think that this would be how HHH debuted in the PPV world ? For a first ever PPV match, let alone a first ever match on a stage like Starrcade, this performance by HHH (wrestling under his almost real name) is a fantastic debut. This isn't your typical HHH match, as in this one Hunter wrestles almost like a cruiserweight trying to match the dynamic Alex Wrights aerial tactics.

For instance, how many times has HHH attempted a top rope elbow drop ala Randy Savage in the WWE ? sadly, we don't get a Pedigree attempt here either, as I think that his finisher at this point was the diamond cutter. This has a good build and an even better climax, with alot of fantastic fast paced action. Even at this early in his wrestling career, HHH could work a body part to almost near-perfection. Alex is no slouch in this one either, selling well for Levesque, making him look great until he is able to fly around a little and grab the win. If you're a fan of HHH, watch this right NOW for a look at what a pre-WWE style HHH looks like, and what he was capable of. Great stuff.

**** 1/4*

So yeah... I'm watching/reviewing every one of Hunter's PPV matches. I'm about 12 matches in and this is fun as fuck.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

The first ever WWE tag team title match at No Mercy 2002 with Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit is just amazing. What are your opinions on this match?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

For some reason I can't see any new posts past page 335.... I'm wondering why this is. I mean, I see that people are posting new responses on this forum but for some reason I can't see my own posts NOR any new posts. This is...Strange.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngofK1ngs... must be a forum glitch. I can get to the posts by pressing "Go Advanced"... if anyone can even see this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for the help Obis  

That's a very strange thing for that to happen. hopefully it gets resolved, and in the meantime, here's THIS :

_Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs "Sparkplug" Bob Holly : Summerslam 1995_

So here we have HHH's first foray into the WWF Pay-per-view scene against who else but BOB FUCKING HOLLY IN A RACECAR GIMMICK ? Damn, we have a Blue-blood vs a race car driver opening the second biggest PPV of the year , no wonder this was the most cartoony period in the company's history. I love that little fucking arrogant bow that Hunter always used to do in the middle of his match, what a cocky prick.

HHH does what he did best in his early career here ; He got the shit beaten out of him. Holly was really stiff here for the short match that this was, with both guys getting in some offense from time to time, with HHH selling like the champ that he is. This is going back and forth until BAM! The very first Pedigree on PPV. That'd be damn well worth my money. Decent material here between these two, but fairly short and just a glimpse into what Hunter Hearst Helmsley could grow into. Average stuff here.

*** 1/2*

_Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs Fatu : In Your House 4_

So basically this match features a young Triple H taking on a young Rikishi about 5 years before Rikishi "DEED IT FOR DA RAOOCK". Fatu sucked in the early stages of his career as his offense was so cookie cutter and sloppy, so it's only fitting that when Hunter sells Fatu's offense like he got shot or hit by some sort of vehicle, he deserves an oscar or a damn noble prize. I mean, this is some of the best selling I've seen out of Hunter in his earlier days. He just gets THROWN all around the ring and outside the ring, doing his best impersonation of the Nature Boy by flopping all over the place.

When Hunter is actually able to gain some offense, the pace of the match still stays fast which makes this match that more intriguing. You could really tell that Hunter was going to be something special in this one, and for those of you who believe that Dolph is one of the best at selling moves at such a young age ; Watch this match and you'll be blown away by how good Hunter makes Fatu look. Pedigree gets the victory, and for good cause. Great, GREAT match between these two, with Hunter carrying it all the way.

*****


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

andersonasshole900 said:


> The first ever WWE tag team title match at No Mercy 2002 with Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit is just amazing. What are your opinions on this match?


Brilliant shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some reason, the last post in this thread is showing up as 23/06 for me.


----------



## Administrator (Mar 3, 2006)

testing testing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs Henry Godwinn Hog Pen Match: IYH 95_

You know what ? this honestly wasn't as bad as it looks. Still, a below average match with an absolutely ridiculous concept. HHH makes this atleast watchable though, for what its worth.

****

I apologize for that, which was written about 5 months ago.. ANYWAYS..

_Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs Duke "Dumpster" Drose : Royal Rumble 1996_

So here we have a future Triple H taking on the future of the WWE, Duke Drose. It's amazing to see such a top level superstar such as Hunter, match up evenly and get owned by who we would consider today to be like the "lower card" members of the roster such as a Jinder Mahal or something. Anyways, does this look like it could have the potential to be a good match ? Because after I watched it I said to myself "Wow, a young Hunter Hearst Helmsley just put on a decent match with a garbage man...What kind of a world do we live in?"

Good back and forth action, with Hunter using his strong suit in this one to make it entertaining ; selling all over the ring to make Drose look decent. Note that this was in the preshow for the PPV to determine who the number 1 and 30 entries will be. Short match here, as Hunter picks up the win by using the brass knucks. Scratch that as the decision is reversed and Hunter loses by DQ. So basically, Triple H's first PPV loss in the WWF came at the hands of Duke Drose... What the fuck; and people say he never paid his dues.

*** 1/4*


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Batista vs. Undertaker Cyber Sunday 2007 - ****1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My internet sucks atm, so I've been bored out of my skull. Watched a bunch of wrestling docs, and kinda ran out of the good ones about a week ago . Anyway, put on the Most Powerful Families in wrestling one, and I enjoyed it a lot more now than I did back when it first came out (helps I actually know everyone they talk about now lol). Has anyone else seen it lately? If not, put it on, and skip ahead to the Mavia-Johnson family part... and please keep an eye out for The Rock's grandman... and try to convince me that she ISN'T being a sarcastically awesome old women whenever she praises her grandson :lmao. Seriously, the tone in her voice whenever she says anything nice about him just screams sarcasm, and she keeps rolling her eyes and looking shifty at the same time :lmao. I cracked up every time she came on the screen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I finished the writeups for the next 3 HHH matches that I've watched, only for the forum to go fucking insane on me and not let me post them, and due to me being an idiot, I didn't save them and now they are lost forever. Since I'm WAAAYYY too lazy to sit here and do writeups on all of these matches , let me give you guys some snowflakes as to where I am right now :

IYH 6 vs Duke Drose- *** 1/2*
WM XII vs Ultimate Warrior- *DUD*
IYH 8 vs Marc Mero- *****
IYH 11 vs Steve Austin- **** 1/4*
Survivor Series 1996 Tag (Debut of Rocky Maivia) : *** 1/4*
IYH 12 vs Marc Mero- *** 3/4*
RR 97 vs Goldust- *** 3/4
*IYH 13 vs Rock-* *** 1/2*
WM 13 vs Goldust- *** 3/4*

Some random notes regarding these matches :

- Most of these matches (sans the SCSA and Rock bouts) follow a pretty simple formula, Hunter gets destroyed over and over again and does a pretty good job of making the other man look great whilst getting a victory in the process. 

- HHH managed to get some pretty good matches out of Mero, the best one being their first PPV encounter in which Hunter first implements his "cerebral assassin" offense, working one body part to perfection (albeit in a losing effort).

- The Goldust matches were very... Different. They worked a slower pace and managed to get REALLYY intense at times with some of those stiff shots and chops that made me cringe.

- Fuck the Warrior match. It doesn't exist I tell you. How people say this is ironic to HHH's career really pisses me off as Hunter is more than just a physique and a gimmick like Mr. Hellwig.

- The matches with SCSA and Rocky are very entertaining, back and forth battles. The heel-heel moment in the Stone Cold match where both men go and talk trash to the people in the front row made me laugh a little bit. Rocky's athleticism really increased Hunter's bumps in their first PPV encounter.

-How could I forget the IYH match vs Duke Drose in which the Double A spinebuster is used for the first time in a HHH match... Except it's used by Drose (DEAD SERIOUS). Maybe that's where Hunter got the idea 

- Got a few randoms to get through (vs Flash Funk and vs Ahmed Johnson) until we get to 4 Foley matches in a row. Excited to see how this turns out


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I've watched quite a few matches from previous years lately...

*WrestleMania 13*
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart
*Match Rating:* *****

*No Way Out 2000
Hell in a Cell; WWF Championship*
Triple H (c) vs. Cactus Jack
*Match Rating:* ****1/4

*No Way Out 2001
3 Stages of Hell*
Triple H vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
*Match Rating:* *****

*No Mercy 2002
WWE Tag Team Championships*
Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle
*Match Rating:* ****3/4

*Survivor Series 2002
First Ever Elimination Chamber; World Heavyweight Championship*
Triple H vs. RVD vs. Booker T vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Shawn Michaels
*Match Rating:* ***3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well that's underwhelming.

Although i havn't seen it, and it has Cena/Hart and im a big Bret mark!!


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Ugh ^


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I don't actually have NOC in my 2011 Blu-Ray collection so I'll probably grab it whilst it's cheap. Even if the event was kinda poor. 

Got a few bootleg DVD's on order. History of the Hardcore Championship (5 Discs), Kane vs. The Undertaker Rivalry (3 Discs) & Legends of Wrestling Roundtable Discussion Full Anthology. Really excited for these to come, especially the Legends of Wrestling one.  Quite a lot more that I want too, especially the Best of WCW Nitro (15 Discs), match listing for it is superb.


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

I have Money in the Bank 2011 and Edge: A Decade of Decadence on order from Amazon. Only spent about $16 for the two, not including tax. Also, I rewatched the WrestleMania pre-show tag match. Here's my rating:

** 1/2- This match had a lot of great points, but it was not as good as the No Way Out tag match. I gave that math a ** 3/4 rating.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Ugh ^


They should start putting some Tagged Classics on Wild Wednesday's tbh.

Or a couple more of the 2/3 Disc Superstar Sets...


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Tbh, SV don't need to be doing Wild Wednesday's. The current sale they have is big enough if you ask me. Always annoys me on the SilverVision FB page when I see people saying crap like this when a sale goes up "Can you add X Title or Y title so I can complete my Z Collection please?"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Baldwin. said:


> Tbh, SV don't need to be doing Wild Wednesday's. The current sale they have is big enough if you ask me. Always annoys me on the SilverVision FB page when I see people saying crap like this when a sale goes up "Can you add X Title or Y title so I can complete my Z Collection please?"


It's always funny too on Twitter when a person says "Is there another DVD on the WW 'cos i already have the one that is up" :gun:

But yeah, thier sale items are still aplently atm although they have taken a few off and gone to normal/higher price.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Extreme Rules 2012:

Kane/Orton - ***1/2
Brodus/Dolph - **
Rhodes/Show - *1/2
Sheamus/Bryan - ****1/2
Ryback - lol
CM Punk/Jericho - ****1/4
Layla/Nikki - DUD
Cena/Lesnar - ****1/4

Love this show.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Cena/Lesnar & Cena/Punk (MITB) are the only main event feel matches WWE have delivered in recent memory that got people from outside of wrestling talking again.

Heck, even Rock/Cena didn't have that feel, the year build up was too flawed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Matches that had a big match feel to me (personally) in the PG Era (with stars thrown in as a bonus!) :

The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM XXV : *******
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM XXVI : *******
The Undertaker vs Triple H WM XXVII : ***** 3/4*
John Cena vs CM Punk MITB 2011 : *******
John Cena vs CM Punk Summerslam 2011 : ***** 1/2*
CM Punk vs Triple H NOC 2011 : ******
The Undertaker vs Triple H HIAC WM XXVIII : ***** 3/4*
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ER 2012 : ***** 1/2*

Borderline Big Match-Feel :

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H Survivor Series 09 : ******
John Cena vs Batista WM XXVI : ******
Team Nexus vs Team WWE Summerslam 2010 : ***** 1/4*

I just wasn't in to Rock vs Cena. It was just another celebrity match to me , and the build seemed way too forced.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I agree with the feel of that Nexus match. I was so hyped going into it. Wasn't going to buy that PPV at all until that got announced.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

When does the PG era officially start? I usually go by June-July 2008, really starting with Summerslam if anything since there was no blood in the Cell match, and then in the HBK/Jericho Unforgiven match it was the same case. But anyway, big PG matches:

Undertaker vs. Edge SS08 HIAC- ****3/4
Cena/Batista SS08- ****
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM XXV : *****
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM XXVI : ****1/2
The Undertaker vs Triple H WM XXVII : ***1/2
John Cena vs CM Punk MITB 2011 : ****1/2
John Cena vs CM Punk Summerslam 2011 : ****1/4
The Undertaker vs Triple H HIAC WM XXVIII : ****
Rock/Cena WM28- ***1/2
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ER 2012 : ***3/4

So basically what K1ngofK1ngs put, just with Taker/Edge Cell, Cena/Batista SS08 and Rock/Cena WM28 in and Punk/HHH and Punk/Cena SS out. Both those matches I'd put in the below list, but I just don't feel they're on the level of the other matches in the big-time PG matches. 

Borderline Big-feel matches:

HBK/Jericho Unforgiven 08- ***3/4
HBK/Jericho NM08- ****1/4
Taker/HHH SD08 (just off their starpower only... they didn't belong on SD, but it was a big feel match even if squandered)- **1/2
Orton/HHH WM25 (despite the piss poor and disappointing match, it was still up there due to the build up)- **1/4
Edge/Cena Backlash 09- ****1/4
Cena/HBK/HHH SS09 (pretty much the exact opposite of Orton/HHH)- ****
Cena/Batista WM26- ***3/4
Nexus/Team WWE SS10- ***1/2 (need to re-watch)
Punk/Cena SS11- ****1/4
Punk/HHH NOC11- ***
Rock/Cena vs. MizTruth (Just due to it being Rock's first match in 7 years... and I was there) SS11- **1/2


That does it for me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Obis said:


> Rock/Cena WM28- ****1/2


Wow, didn't know you love this match that much. Maybe it helps that I witnessed it live at ringside but I felt the 'epicness' of the encounter and thought they produced a great clash. When I re-watched it on DVD I still thought it was a satisfying main event of two big personalities in a grand showdown.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watching the Raw '09 Elimination Chamber with my dad and I can't help but want to put it above the Raw '08 one as my favorite. The shocking elimination of Cena, Rey/Edge/Jericho's epic encounters plus the whole story behind Rey being pissed about Kofi being taken out and the fact that Edge went from WWE champ to WHC in one night. We've probably done the list before but my top 3.

1. Raw 2008
2. Raw 2009 (Debating putting it #1)
3. Raw 2005

Those 3 are easily three of my most watched matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Clique said:


> Wow, didn't know you love this match that much. Maybe it helps that I witnessed it live at ringside but I felt the 'epicness' of the encounter and thought they produced a great clash. When I re-watched it on DVD I still thought it was a satisfying main event of two big personalities in a grand showdown.


That... was a typo. 

***1/2 it is.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Obis 



Brye said:


> Watching the Raw '09 Elimination Chamber with my dad and I can't help but want to put it above the Raw '08 one as my favorite. The shocking elimination of Cena, Rey/Edge/Jericho's epic encounters plus the whole story behind Rey being pissed about Kofi being taken out and the fact that Edge went from WWE champ to WHC in one night. We've probably done the list before but my top 3.
> 
> 1. Raw 2008
> 2. Raw 2009 (Debating putting it #1)
> ...


After Taker & Michaels at WM25, Rey's performance in the Elimination Chamber is the best of the year for me. Absolutely phenomenal. Best EC performance ever and Rey's my 2009 WOTY based on that match and his matches with Jericho, Ziggler, Morrison and Punk.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd give him WOTY in '09 as well. Smackdown that year had so many good matches that year featuring Hardy, Rey, Punk, Jericho, Edge, Morrison, Ziggler. 

ECW had great stuff from Christian, Ryder, Regal, Swagger, Kidd, Smith, Burchill and some other guys chipping in. Raw really lacked though. Couple good TV matches in Orton/Trips and Cena/Trips, Cena/HBK but not much to brag about. I liked the Legacy/DX and Jerishow/DX stuff though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In terms of in-ring quality, how would you rank the Smackdown Six ? Here's my take :

1. Chris Benoit
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Eddie Guerrero
4. Kurt Angle
5. Edge


6. Chavo Guerrero

Chris Benoit may be more Top-heavy than Rey... But can we argue that Rey is possibly the most consistent wrestler of all time ? I mean when I first saw the guy be ranking # 9 on WWE's top 50 of all time list, I thought it was a tragedy until I broke down the tape. You can't look at this guy and say that he's not one of if not THE most consistent Wrestler EVER.

Eddie might be the ALL-AROUND best of the bunch, and beats Angle mainly because of some of Angle's bullshit. I don't think Edge even touches the other 4 (just my opinion) , and Chavo doesn't even touch Edge's Gym socks. Going to look more into this in the future.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I would go...

Benoit
Guerrero./Mysterio
Edge
Angle
Chavo

Don't even hate Chavo or anything, he was just clearly #6. I still really enjoyed Angle too but I'm a bigger Edge fan during that time. Couldn't decide between Rey/Eddie.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Chris Benoit may be more Top-heavy than Rey... But can we argue that Rey is possibly the most consistent wrestler of all time ? I mean when I first saw the guy be ranking # 9 on WWE's top 50 of all time list, I thought it was a tragedy until I broke down the tape. You can't look at this guy and say that he's not one of if not THE most consistent Wrestler EVER.


Agreed. The guy gets way too shit around here for all the wrong reasons. He has had some injury troubles over the past couple of years, but people seem to forget that when healthy, he is arguably the best wrestler on the roster.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Angle and Benoit would be my #1 & #2. I would slightly put Angle over Benoit because Angle had better matches with Rey and Edge than Benoit. Most of the best SD6 stuff feature those two facing each other or teaming together. Edge slightly over Rey because of his face in peril performances in the 4-way elimination match, No DQ with Eddie and the 10/3 match with Angle. Then Eddie and Chavo.

If we're talking their entire careers then I have Benoit - Rey - Eddie - Angle - Edge - Chavo.


My favorite Smackdown Six Matches:


Angle vs. Rey - SummerSlam 02 - *** 3/4
Angle vs. Benoit - Unforgiven 02 - **** 1/4 - 1/2 (I seriously need to re-watch this. Great heel v. heel match)
Edge vs. Eddie - Smackdown 09/26/02 - **** 
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio – Smackdown 09/26/02 - *** 1/2
Angle vs. Edge - Smackdown 10/3/02 - ****
Benoit vs. Rey - Smackdown 10/03/02 - *** 1/2
Angle/Benoit vs. Eddie/Chavo - Smackdown 10/17/02 - *** 1/2
Angle/Benoit vs. Rey/Edge - No Mercy 02 - ***** (fave tag team match ever)
Rey/Edge vs. Angle/Benoit - Smackdown 11/07/02 - **** 1/2
Angle/Benoit vs. Rey/Edge vs. Eddie/Chavo - Survivor Series 02 - *** 1/2
Angle vs. Edge vs. Benoit vs. Eddie - Smackdown 12/05/02 - **** 
Angle vs. Benoit - Royal Rumble 03 - **** 3/4

Other good stuff is Eddie/Edge at SummerSlam & Unforgiven 02, Angle vs. Chris Benoit - SD! 10/24/02, Edge vs. Chris Benoit - SD! 10/31/02, Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - SD 11/14/02, Los Guerreros vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit - SD 11/28/02 and Benoit/Eddie Armageddon 02.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Clique said:


> Angle and Benoit would be my #1 & #2. I would slightly put Angle over Benoit because Angle had better matches with Rey and Edge than Benoit. Most of the best SD6 stuff feature those two facing each other or teaming together. Edge slightly over Rey because of his face in peril performances in the 4-way elimination match, No DQ with Eddie and the 10/3 match with Angle. Then Eddie and Chavo.
> 
> If we're talking their entire careers then I have Benoit - Rey - Eddie - Angle - Edge - Chavo.
> 
> ...


Damn, I never quite realized how good the Smackdown 6 actually was until reading that list of matches... 

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings*

IYH 15 vs Flash Funk- *****
KOTR 97 vs Ahmed Johnson- *** 1/2*
KOTR 97 vs Mankind- ******
IYH 16 vs Mankind- ******
SS 97 vs Mankind- ******
ONO vs Dude Love- ******
IYH 19 vs Sgt Slaughter- ** 3/4*

The Flash Funk match was just FUN. It was the poor mans version of Bret vs Hakushi from IYH 1 , just an absolute popcorn match with some great spots and some great wrestling by Hunter on the side there, bravo to both men for entertaining the crowd. 

Ahmed match was short, but very fast paced and never a dull moment. Told a good story , because despite Hunter's physique , he never is able to gain a power advantage over Ahmed, resorting to his bag of technical tricks to win.

The first Hunter-Foley PPV series (not even counting the Raw FCA) is one of the most underrated series's of matches in one year EVER , as they gave us a different kind of match and told a different story EVERY SINGLE TIME. The KOTR match is one of Hunter's finest offensive performances, focusing on the neck of Foley and just beating him down slowly and methodically, which I can understand if alot of people hate it because it's slow... I just love that pace. Hunter's first HUGE PPV win as well , and the first near-classic of the Cerebral assassin. The Canadian Stampede match is a forgotten near classic, with both of these guys just going back and forth beating each other down (throw in the post match segments and you have yourselves a **** 1/4 segment), now that Mankind has experienced Hunter once, he won't make the same mistake as last time.

The Summerslam match told ANOTHER different story ; Hunter is trapped in there with a maniac, with no help from Chyna such as in the previous matches (although yes, she still gets involved in various ways which I feel add to the match). This has the best atmosphere of the series, the hottest crowd, and the biggest spots as both Hunter and Foley take bumps all over the Cage to the delight of the audience. The fact that Foley actually HITS the big elbow and wins the match to even things up also adds to the match. That was the blowoff match to the MANKIND feud, however these two met up one last time on PPV in 97, as Foley brought out Dude Love for a match at ONO. This was the most "FUN" match of the series, as Dude is just downright fucking awesome. Foley goes absolutely insane with his technical abilities here, going hold for hold with Hunter (something I never would expect) in a near classic. Of COURSE Foley puts over HHH in the end, to say that Foley did wonders boosting HHH's credibility, is an understatement. All FOUR of these matches are fantastic and I can't choose between them, as all 4 are different and special in their own way.

The match with Slaughter was...Bad. This match actually could have been decent, it's just that they gave them SEVENTEEN MINUTES to work with. At Slaughter's age, that's a horrible idea. The match was slow, with HHH selling pretty well for some pretty terrible offense from the Sarge. Sarge does however, bump like a champ for his age so that adds to the match, as well as the fact that it's TRIPLE FUCKING H. I actually had fun with the match and I could watch it again because HHH is such a dickish heel in it, but it's just a guilty pleasure of mine. I KNOW I'm overrating it even by giving it one and three quarters, but it's HHH, what do you expect? (Btw, this is the first time HHH used the DX theme on PPV, AND the first time he did a water spit on PPV on his way to the ring. Fucking amazing)


----------



## Firallon (Feb 25, 2012)

WRESTLEMANIA XXVIII

World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus defeated Daniel Bryan (c) - *

Singles
Kane defeated Randy Orton - ***1/2

Intercontinental Championship
Big Show defeated Cody Rhodes (c) - **1/2

Diva's Tag Team
Kelly Kelly and Maria Menounos defeated Beth Phoenix and Eve - **1/2

Hell in a Cell
Undertaker defeated Triple H - *****

GM vs GM
Team Johnny defeated Team Teddy - **1/2

WWE Championship
CM Punk (c) defeated Chris Jericho - ****1/2

Once in a Lifetime
The Rock defeated John Cena - **1/2

Overall, a 6/10.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Foley and Hunter were hell of opponents for each other. Loved how they brawled with each other.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm not a big fan of the Cage match and the one at ONO--between Hunter and Foley--but that match at KOTR '97 is lovely. Splendid stuff and Hunter's first "great" match.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Christian would of been gold on SmackDown in 02. Seemed out of place on RAW.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Austin/Rock, Wrestlemania X7 - ******* (JR's commentary - ************)

Punk/Bryan, Over The Limit 2012 - *****1/2*

HHH/Orton, LMS, Raw 09 - *****1/4*


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Jim Ross was amazing at selling Steve Austin's heel turn. Dude was going crazy. 

I'd agree with Starbuck Austin/Rock rating. Really awesome 5 star match.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Brye said:


> Watching the Raw '09 Elimination Chamber with my dad and I can't help but want to put it above the Raw '08 one as my favorite. The shocking elimination of Cena, Rey/Edge/Jericho's epic encounters plus the whole story behind Rey being pissed about Kofi being taken out and the fact that Edge went from WWE champ to WHC in one night. We've probably done the list before but my top 3.
> 1. Raw 2008
> 2. Raw 2009 (Debating putting it #1)
> 3. Raw 2005
> Those 3 are easily three of my most watched matches.





Clique said:


> Obis
> After Taker & Michaels at WM25, Rey's performance in the Elimination Chamber is the best of the year for me. Absolutely phenomenal. Best EC performance ever and Rey's my 2009 WOTY based on that match and his matches with Jericho, Ziggler, Morrison and Punk.


Mysterio's performance made me a fan of his again and he's a big part of what made SD in 2009 so awesome.
Edge performance made me a fan of not only his "Ultimate Opportunist" gimmick but past heel champions as well (like HHH & Flair).


It's my favorite EC match which is funny because not only was i not looking forward to the match but i only ordered the ppv because a relative wanted to see it.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Top 5 Rock matches:
Rock/Benoit Fully Loaded 2000 - *******(you can say it was ****3/4 because of the finish but whatever)
Rock/Angle/Taker Vengeance 2002 - *******
Rock/HHH JD 2000 - *******
Rock/Jericho No Mercy 2001 - *******
Rock/Austin WM17 - *******

More:
Angle/HBK WM21 - *******
Angle/Benoit Rumble 2003 - *******
Taker/HBK WM25 - *******
Angle/Taker NWO 2006 - *****1/2*
Angle/Benoit Unforgiven 2002 - *****3/4*
Rock/Austin WM19 - *****1/2*
Rock/Foley/Evolution WM20 - ******

Random but Rock/Venis October 99 was an awesome TV match, Rock did some rare things here:


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Finally going to watch Unforgiven 07 tonight. Purchased Summerslam 07 to Wrestlemania 24, so going to watch the PPV's in order. SS 07 was terrible, but the cards after Unforgiven look good. And a lot of people here say WM 24 is one of the best WM's ever, so I look forward to watching it (on blu-ray too!).


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

CM Punks Twitter



> I'm watching an early copy of my DVD. I'm pretty speechless, very humbiling


I think were gonna get something good this October with his DVD.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rock316AE said:


> Top 5 Rock matches:
> Rock/Benoit Fully Loaded 2000 - *******(you can say it was ****3/4 because of the finish but whatever)


I'll say it was ****3/4* max.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

New Tagged Classic: https://www.silvervision.co.uk/prod...-Walls-Down-It-s-True-DVD-2-Discs.html?src=fb


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Jericho LMS > Angle running from Taker all night > Rock/Benoit imo. Wait til I get yo little ass, boi!! :lmao :lmao Awesome lol.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Baldwin. said:


> New Tagged Classic: https://www.silvervision.co.uk/prod...-Walls-Down-It-s-True-DVD-2-Discs.html?src=fb


Couldn't care less about Austin and Foley since I already have those but I've been hoping for a while they'd release the Angle and Jericho sets.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The Motorcycle skits with Angle and Taker were classic. Especially when Taker drives after him to a room lol. Although not the Rock/Benoit masterpiece. The intense build up for that match was also tremendous:






Probably Benoit's best feud. 

I'm waiting for years for a WWE documentary DVD on Kurt Angle...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Has the 60 minute ironman match between angle/lesnar ever been released on home video?

saw a recap on smackdown best of set recently and would love to see the full match.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Ever Wolf said:


> Has the 60 minute ironman match between angle/lesnar ever been released on home video?
> 
> saw a recap on smackdown best of set recently and would love to see the full match.


It's on the 50 Greatest Stars Of the 21st Century set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ever Wolf said:


> Has the 60 minute ironman match between angle/lesnar ever been released on home video?
> 
> saw a recap on smackdown best of set recently and would love to see the full match.


Yes . Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century. Its in full aka even the parts during the commercial breaks are shown.

New tagged classic is meh. Not that into those older "documentary" releases. Most were really shitty and still kayfabey, and the matches were usually always clipped.

Rock/Benoit - ****1/4, great match, great feud, but MOTN for Fully Loaded goes to the LMS match.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Smackdown Six :mark: One of the reasons I'm a Paul Heyman mark. But what is so bad about Chavo? I mean he's not good, obviously, but I don't understand the flat out hate he gets.


Ever Wolf said:


> Has the 60 minute ironman match between angle/lesnar ever been released on home video?
> 
> saw a recap on smackdown best of set recently and would love to see the full match.


Yes, it's on Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century.

This has probably been asked recently but, top RAW matches excluding HBK/Cena?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chavo sucks. Like, really bad. He's the least talented Guerrero in the ring ever. And I'm including Vickie .

Yeah, seriously though. He sucks. He was so out of place during the SD 6 era. He literally rode Eddie's coattails during that. Hell, he sucked so bad that REY got the push from Eddie's death. Chavo went on a losing streak, claimed he was going to win the IC title in Eddie's memory, lost the match, cried and quit (then came back as a heel and went after Rey and Benoit).


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> Smackdown Six :mark: One of the reasons I'm a Paul Heyman mark. But what is so bad about Chavo? I mean he's not good, obviously, but I don't understand the flat out hate he gets.
> 
> 
> Yes, it's on Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century.
> ...


TLC4
World Title - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H 29/12/03
World Title Eugene vs. Chris Benoit 12/7/04 - I really, really enjoyed this match at the time, haven't watched it since.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some good Raw matches:

Benoit Vs HBK x2 in 2004
Dallas 10 man in 2000
A bunch of the Evolution tag matches in 04, one with Foley involved stands out as the best
Shelton Vs HBK x2 (one in 05, rematch in 06)
Flair Vs Edge TLC in 2006
Undertaker Vs Hardy ladder match in 2002
Power Trip Vs Chrisx2 in 2001
Austin Vs Benoit in 2001 (same week as the awesome SD match, but this is DAMN GOOD as well)

All I can think of off the top of my head lol, with most being better than Cena/HBK for me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Baldwin. said:


> TLC4
> *World Title - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H 29/12/03*
> World Title Eugene vs. Chris Benoit 12/7/04 - I really, really enjoyed this match at the time, haven't watched it since.


:mark: :mark: :mark: 

I watched this not too long ago and loved every fucking second. Awesome match. I wish they would have stripped away the stips on 1 or more of their PPV matches to give us something more like this tbh.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I remember when Shawn 'won' I almost creamed my pants and then Bischoff gave it back to Trips for a 'double pin' That bastard.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One of the very few good matches between them. Awesome way to end the year (and a very fucking shitty year for Raw at that lol). Shame HBK didn't actually win the belt, but I guess HHH keeping it until WM made it better for Benoit.

Ohh, that reminds me of another great Raw match; HBK Vs Jericho from 2003. The WM rematch that gets totally forgotten about most of the time.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

KingCal said:


> One of the very few good matches between them. Awesome way to end the year (and a very fucking shitty year for Raw at that lol). Shame HBK didn't actually win the belt, but I guess HHH keeping it until WM made it better for Benoit.
> 
> Ohh, that reminds me of another great Raw match; HBK Vs Jericho from 2003. The WM rematch that gets totally forgotten about most of the time.


That match is awesome, loved the ending.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think I'm going to watch some of Survivor Series 2003 tonight after Germany beat Italy, God willing. I think I'll go for Shane/Kane Ambulance match, Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff and Team Angle vs. Team Lesnar. It would be awesome if we could actually get a hyped Team vs. Team match at Survivor Series this year with a proper build etc going in but obviously that's asking for way too much lol. If this proposed Vince/HHH vs. Brock/Johnny deal goes down I wouldn't mind something along the lines of HHH/Cena/Punk/etc/etc vs. Brock/Show/Johnny/etc/etc. That could be a lot of fun. Alas, we'll end up with 5 guys thrown together vs. another 5 guys thrown together with 1 week of build and a stupid outcome as per usual.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lets face it, unless its WM WWE really just don't care. They always claim that SummerSlam is the WM of the summer, but still put in minimal effort. Its gone from the big 4 to the big 1, and even then they only REALLY put effort into a couple of matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I so fucking wish they would get their act together and make the Rumble mean something again. I used to love the Rumble, I mean, _really_ love it. I almost looked forward to it more than Mania but now the magic is all but ruined. What's the point in getting excited over something that ends up opening the card at Mania lol? It's pointless and the EC PPV has rendered it almost completely useless too. The RTWM doesn't truly begin until the night after EC when it should be starting when the winner of the Rumble is standing in the ring pointing to the Mania sign. Survivor Series has survived as a big 4 because of its legacy because they sure as hell don't treat it as one anymore. Summerslam is hit or miss. I mean this year we're getting Brock/Trips which could be a Mania main event and they at least do somewhat try depending on their mood lol. Agreed that Mania is the only thing that matters to them now though. I think that so long as they can produce a successful Mania it enables them to coast comfortably for the rest of the year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm surprised they haven't stop Survivor Series altogether. They were talking about scrapping the PPV in 2009... then again in 2010.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> I watched this not too long ago and loved every fucking second. Awesome match. I wish they would have stripped away the stips on 1 or more of their PPV matches to give us something more like this tbh.


Yeah, so true. I actually prefer their TT '04 match over the awful 3SOH match, and even the LMS match. Their best is obviously SummerSlam 2002.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The team matches for SS 2003 had great build and together they were the highlights of that show.

Orton pinning a bloody Shawn Micheals after a Batista run in had me raging as a kid , JR like BATISTA BATISTA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I wouldn't doubt it if they TRIED to kill off Survivor Series in 2010 , I mean... WADE BARRETT main evented it. What the fuck? Come to think of it, in 2010 Wade Barrett main evented the last 3 PPVs of the year..WHY ?!?!? I'm praying that he doesn't come back and win the MITB because he just doesn't do it for me at all.

Survivor Series 2011 had some great hype around it , including Rock's return , Punk's one-on-one rematch for the title , and a rematch of the battle of the bigs. The last few "BIG 4" events (not including RR 2012) have given us a substantial amount of hype. I mean Mania is Mania, SSlam 11 had the Punk-Cena II match that people were hyped to see , Survivor Series had everything I just mentioned, and WM 28 is self explanatory.

In regards to the Shawn Michaels vs Triple H series : Those two are among my favourites of all time , so everytime they step into the ring I thoroughly enjoy it. I'd personally give their DEC RAW match the distinction of being my TV-MOTD. The controversial matches that these two have had are the Armageddon 3SOH , HIAC , and Taboo Tuesday matches. I think the Armageddon match and the Bad Blood match share the same distinction in that if you don't LOVE the two guys who are competing in them, you won't enjoy them very much. Taboo Tuesday match however, was very story driven and excellent IMO. To see Shawn basically get screwed AGAIN was insane.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

greendayedgehead said:


> This has probably been asked recently but, top RAW matches excluding HBK/Cena?



Owen/Davey from March 97 is my favorite Raw match.

I also love HBK/Razor August 94, Bret/Kid Sept. 94, HBK & Austin vs. Owen & Davey May 97, Rock/Jericho Nov. 01, Christian/RVD Sept. 03, and HBK/Shelton May 05.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love the two HBK/Edge street fights from '05 and '07. That HBK/Benjamin match is a classic for me too. Love the Benjamin/Trips stuff too.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Triple H vs. Shelton Benjamin from Raw 04 after the draft was brilliant. Always forget these great matches happened.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That's the match that really made me a Benjamin mark. I liked him before that but then he became one of my favorite wrestlers of '04-'06.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

When Benjamin beat Trips for 3 weeks running I *RAGED*. I was still a mark though so its all good lol. Benjy's Raw matches with HBK and HHH were pretty darn awesome though. I'll never forget that jump from the rope into the SCM. You talk about classic Raw moments? That was one right there.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Pretty interesting new Pre-Order at SV: http://www.silvervision.co.uk/produ...eak-The-Walls-Down-It-s-True-DVD-2-Discs.html .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Love the Benjamin vs Trips matches in 04 , it's a shame that Benjamin never got a REALLY huge push to the moon, all he really needed was a good mouthpiece (NOT his momma). If Trips was willing to put him over so much, the company HAD to see main event potential in him. You could have done so much with him from 04-now , and if you got him a competent manager we could have seen a Shelton Benjamin vs Kurt Angle match at Wrestlemania 22 for the WHC.....Now THAT would have been something, instead of that bullshit push given to Rey that was based on the fact that Eddie was dead.

Speaking of that Wrestlemania 22 match, WHY DIDN'T IT GET MORE TIME ? For how long that match lasted, it was fucking awesome (I have it at **** 1/2* ATM, need to rewatch it soon). Give that some more time and get rid of the Booker T/Boogeyman shit and the Playyboy garbage and WM 22 is one of the all time greats.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The triple threat at Mania 22 is just frantic. It was awesomely frantic but holy fuck it was over in a flash.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I didnt understand why Mysterio tapped in that match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It was a really fun match but the booking was a little odd.

God Benjamin/Angle at a WM would've been fantastic. He could've been a main eventer if he had a mouthpiece.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I didn't understand why Mysterio won the match. 8*D


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

They made Orton & Rey tap to keep Angle looking strong in defeat (wasn't pinned to lose title either). I wish they would have done Taker/Angle III and Orton/Rey World Title instead at WM22.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match was just an Angle MOVES~! showcase with a Rey title win for a "feel good moment" after Eddie died. I don't doubt that Rey would have gotten a big push and maybe a world title run at some point, but him getting it at THAT time was definitely all because of Eddie and its a real shame because Rey deserved it on his own merits.

Edit: I got to see an Angle Vs Benjamin match live. Jealous? Yeah, you jealous.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> The triple threat at Mania 22 is just frantic. It was awesomely frantic but holy fuck it was over in a flash.


Look on the bright side: if it were longer, it could have dragged and thus worsened the quality of the match as a whole. Considering the dynamics of them, triple threat matches at times can be tricky.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Yeah, have Orton win the battle royal instead of Angle would of been my preference too. Then just have Angle and Taker in an interpromotional feud.

edit - Any not-talked-about matches you guys think should of been a lot better than they were?

I remember being really excited about Jericho/Christian ladder match at Unforgiven 04, but it never really clicked for me. With these 2, in a ladder match, and with the 20 minutes they got, you would think they would of provided a classic.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I listened to a former creative writer who said that Vince wanted Finlay to take the World Title from Rey soon after he won it but it was nixed by Stephanie. I think it was after JBL got hurt because it was supposed to go to him first lol. Poor Rey. He was never going to get a proper run with that belt no matter what.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> I listened to a former creative writer who said that Vince wanted Finlay to take the World Title from Rey soon after he won it but it was nixed by Stephanie. I think it was after JBL got hurt because it was supposed to go to him first lol. Poor Rey. He was never going to get a proper run with that belt no matter what.


Finlay? Vince wanted FINLAY to hold the World Title. In 2006?

FUCK YOU STEPHANIE. FUCK YOU AND YOUR RETARDED OPINION. 

Finlay, imo THE wrestler of the year (Danielson has a claim for worldwide too I guess, probs someone in Japan too that I don't know about, but at least as far as wwe goes, NOBODY was better than him in 06) was gonna get a world title reign... and instead King Booker gets it?

That's it. I ain't fapping to Stephanie any more!


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I listened to a former creative writer who said that Vince wanted Finlay to take the World Title from Rey soon after he won it but it was nixed by Stephanie. I think it was after JBL got hurt because it was supposed to go to him first lol. Poor Rey. He was never going to get a proper run with that belt no matter what.


I think they wanted a heel to get the title so Batista could challenge for it when he got back.

Would not of liked JBL getting the belt at all, as we probably would of got another poor Batista/JBL series, as. Finlay as Champ would of been interesting, would of got a decent series of matches with Batista unlike the poor matches that King Booker/Batista delivered.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I really wanted JBL to win the World title in 2006 from Rey. In 2005 from Batista too actually.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I think after JBL's first reign he didnt need the belt anymore, you could get good feuds out of him as he created an awesome character for himself.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Finlay? Vince wanted FINLAY to hold the World Title. In 2006?
> 
> FUCK YOU STEPHANIE. FUCK YOU AND YOUR RETARDED OPINION.
> 
> ...


Lol. Apparently it was the only time she ever spoke up and disagreed with Vince publicly in the meeting with all the other writers during this guys time there which was up until 07 iirc. I guess she must have felt pretty strongly about it to do that.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Mr.Limelight said:


> edit - Any not-talked-about matches you guys think should of been a lot better than they were?



Speaking of Christian and ladder matches, I didn't think Christian and Edge had an epic ladder match I would have liked them to have had. Their other matches are good but they never got a great angle together and it's a shame. In a World Title feud I would have loved to have seen heel Edge vs. face Christian.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Yeah, have Orton win the battle royal instead of Angle would of been my preference too. Then just have Angle and Taker in an interpromotional feud.
> 
> edit - Any not-talked-about matches you guys think should of been a lot better than they were?
> 
> I remember being really excited about Jericho/Christian ladder match at Unforgiven 04, but it never really clicked for me. With these 2, in a ladder match, and with the 20 minutes they got, you would think they would of provided a classic.


I don't think these two ever had matches that *delivered* and didn't make you feel like you could have gotten more out of it. The WrestleMania encounter from earlier that year, albeit a regular match, was arguably as good as, if not better, than the ladder match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, Edge and Christian's ladder match was pretty horrible imo, despite the fact on paper it should have been great. They probably could have had a great one now, but ah well. Didn't like any of their 01 matches.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The WM20 and the Raw Cage match I'd say is better than the ladder match.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

PsychoticViper2000 said:


> I don't think these two ever had matches that *delivered* and didn't make you feel like you could have gotten more out of it. The WrestleMania encounter from earlier that year, albeit a regular match, was arguably as good as, if not better, than the ladder match.


I gotta say I loved there match at WM20! But the series after that 100% did not live up to that match. I think Christian came out of the feud looking a lot better than before though, as his 2003 was very forgettable and he needed a fairly big feud to make him a legit guy in the WWE, but unfortunately they didnt have the belief in him to give him the title in 2005, when he was brilliant.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Wasnt Mania 20 Jericho/Christian?

EDIT - don't worry, just all a bit too confusing at the moment!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yes, I should have put Jericho/Christian WM20 & Cage Match > Jericho/Christian Ladder Match. All of those matches are better than Christian/Edge.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Mr.Limelight said:


> I gotta say I loved there match at WM20! But the series after that 100% did not live up to that match. I think Christian came out of the feud looking a lot better than before though, as his 2003 was very forgettable and he needed a fairly big feud to make him a legit guy in the WWE, but unfortunately they didnt have the belief in him to give him the title in 2005, when he was brilliant.


The WMXX match WAS enjoyable for it told a very watchable story. Even if Trish wasn't involved, it would have still been the same, although less dramatic. And indeed he was brilliant in 2005, when he began to show hunger to taste the spotlight. Unfortunately for him, WWE did not want to reciprocate and completely missed the ball on what could have been a decent summer for Smackdown. Instead, we were treated to JBL and Batista, both of whom produced nothing worth replaying.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I legit thought that Christian was going to be the main heel when he got drafted to Smackdown. Shame how things turned out but, I did enjoy his run in TNA and was glad TNA gave him a chance to actually main event.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

When Cena left for Raw, Smackdown was left without a champion so they did a match for the 'SmackDown Champion'. Christian definately should of won this instead of JBL, and I think they should of done a big deal of it by actually making a SmackDown Championship belt that Christian could of made his own (would of been something different). And this match to crown the new Champ should of been done at GAB 2005 to make it seem more of a big deal. And then...... Batista gets traded to Smackdown with the WHC and they have long feud with a unification match at Summerslam or something, with the WHC becoming the official belt of SD.


Would of made Christian look good and give him the gimmick of being the only Smackdown Champion in history.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I stopped watching around the time Christian got moved over to SD. Cena and Batista as champions did nothing for me. JBL being Cena's big opponent on SD did nothing for me, then when Batista and Cena switched places... JBL was Batista's big opponent and I just wanted to shoot myself . Pretty much missed anything Christian did in his time on SD before he left.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Mr.Limelight said:


> When Cena left for Raw, Smackdown was left without a champion so they did a match for the 'SmackDown Champion'. Christian definately should of won this instead of JBL, and I think they should of done a big deal of it by actually making a SmackDown Championship belt that Christian could of made his own (would of been something different). And this match to crown the new Champ should of been done at GAB 2005 to make it seem more of a big deal. And then...... Batista gets traded to Smackdown with the WHC and they have long feud with a unification match at Summerslam or something, with the WHC becoming the official belt of SD.
> 
> 
> Would of made Christian look good and give him the gimmick of being the only Smackdown Champion in history.


"Smackdown Champion" lol

I was scared that night that Teddy was being for real when those words came out of his mouth. It could have worked, sure, but the name itself would have deemed the titleholder to be far inferior to the WWE Champion when it's not exactly supposed to be that way.

Wasn't that a Six Man Elimination match of some sort that went on for around 40 minutes? The only memory I have of it other than some of the participants is a table being broken somewhere...


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Bit of an unusual request here. I'm trying to watch everything from '97 forward, and gonna rate all the PPV matches. What I need is all the wrestlers who changed their names (and both of their gimmicks wrestled post '97), so I can keep the spreadsheet more tidy. I know the obvious ones (Foley's, Hunter/Trips, Maivia/Rock, Farooq/Simmons) but what others are there?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

PsychoticViper2000 said:


> "Smackdown Champion" lol
> 
> I was scared that night that Teddy was being for real when those words came out of his mouth. It could have worked, sure, but the name itself would have deemed the titleholder to be far inferior to the WWE Champion when it's not exactly supposed to be that way.
> 
> Wasn't that a Six Man Elimination match of some sort that went on for around 40 minutes? The only memory I have of it other than some of the participants is a table being broken somewhere...


I wrote something about it a couple of years back when I last watched it:

Booker T Vs Chris Benoit Vs Muhammad Hassan Vs JBL Vs Christian Vs The Undertaker - SD 05 (not sure the exact date, and I'm too lazy to check  )

This is an elimination match to decide the new SD Champion, since John Cena had been drafted to Raw, taking the WWE Title with him, leaving Raw with 2 champions and SD with none. Big Show was originally supposed to be in this one, but was drafted to Raw too, so he was replaced by SD's newest draft pick... Christian!

'Taker kicks off the match with Christian, until he tags out and Hussan comes in. 'Taker and Hussan have a feud going at the time too btw. Eventually 'Taker gets taken out of the match when JBL gets a blind tag, only to receive a right hand from the Dead Man. 'Taker then proceeds to destroy Hussan on the outside with a chair, getting himself DQ'd, and Hussan counted out, and we are down to 4.

Benoit and JBL are the legal men, and the match gets stiffer than Viva when he thinks about Paddy. All in all we get a pretty neat 4 way match for a little while, before JBL sneaks in another tag and pins Benoit.

This leaves Booker alone with JBL and Christian, who turn the match into a sort of handicap match, until Christian sort of turns on JBL, then avoids getting tagged in, hoping JBL and Booker will eventually take each other down. He finds the perfect time to tag in and pin Booker, but while he and Booker argue, JBL gets up and lariats Christian to hell, and we have a winner!

Then everyone knows the rest, with Batista showing up as the newest SD draft pick, bringing the WHC with him. And so started the feud that forced me to stop watching SD for a few months .

Rating: Hmmm... it was a good match, no doubt about it. It got around 25-30 minutes too, which was great, but it probably could have been shorter. I'll go ***1/2 on it just now .


----------



## DX-HHH-XD (Jul 2, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> I listened to a former creative writer who said that Vince wanted Finlay to take the World Title from Rey soon after he won it but it was nixed by Stephanie. I think it was after JBL got hurt because it was supposed to go to him first lol. Poor Rey. He was never going to get a proper run with that belt no matter what.


I do actually remember an old WWE magazine interview with Vince around maybe Feb or May 2006 wherein Vince referred to 'Fit' Finlay as one of the rising stars or something to that effect. He probably really was high on him.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Re-watched Punk/Cena MITB yesterday. DAT VIDEO PACKAGE is to fucking die for, first of all.

As for the match itself, I wouldn't go the full five, because the sloppy/lethargic points really annoy me. That spot where Punk goes for the crossbody and ends up landing on Cena's knees(barely landing on Cena at all) at all had me facepalming. Also, Lawler is SO FUCKING ANNOYING on commentary. Even more than he usually is.  But yeah, still a great, great match with a perfect build-up, atmosphere, and finish. ****1/2 - ****3/4

It's hard to believe that the same creative team that came up with the MITB build-up come up with some of the shit on TV right now.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I wrote something about it a couple of years back when I last watched it:
> 
> Booker T Vs Chris Benoit Vs Muhammad Hassan Vs JBL Vs Christian Vs The Undertaker - SD 05 (not sure the exact date, and I'm too lazy to check  )
> 
> ...


I think it took place at the end of June to coincide with Batista being the 5th and final draft pick. I believe that was the draft, and so far the only, where there would be one draft pick per show for five weeks. Speaking of which...

Do you think another draft with the same format would succeed and pique viewer interest?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 1998*

NWO 98 W/ New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega vs Owen Hart, Chainsaw Charlie, Cactus Jack, & Steve Austin : **** 3/4*
WM 14 vs Owen Hart : **** 3/4*
IYH 21 Unf vs Owen Hart- **** 1/4*
IYH 22 OTE w NAO vs Owen Hart/D'lo/Kama Mustafa- *** 1/2*
IYH 23 FL vs The Rock 2/3 Falls : **** 1/2*
SS 98 vs The Rock Ladder : ******
Capitol Carnage vs Jeff Jarrett- : *** 3/4*

1998 was when Triple H finally dropped the "Hunter Hearst Helmsley" name, and became a big , big, borderline main event name, as the second biggest face in the company behind Stone Cold Steve Austin. However, Hunter's first match came as a heel in the NWO tag match, which was one of the most crazy and out of control matches I've ever seen. This match's first half was straight up ANARCHY, with action all over the arena. With a hot Steve Austin in Texas, coupled with some fantastic brawling performances from the likes of Funk/Foley/New Age Outlaws/Savio Vega, this is one of the better big man tags that the company has ever done. The only thing that I didn't like was how the logic of tagging in and out just came into play halfway into the match, what was that all about. REALLY FUN.

The two Owen matches were great, especially the Wrestlemania one which was one of Hunter's finest performances to date. That particular Wrestlemania match is my MOTN from WM XIV because of Owen's fantastic selling, and HHH's great offense with the combined technical efforts of both men with a hot crowd behind them. The Unforgiven encounter was a great match as well with alot of the same elements as the Wrestlemania match, however this was Hunter's first match as a face in the WWF, and he did a fantastic job of selling himself to the fans as a likeable and downright cool performer. We get some great technical moments in the match, but I feel there was too much focus on the whole "Chyna being locked in a cage" storyline to make it as good as the original. The final match involving HHH-Owen on PPV was the six man tag, which was essentially just your average 6 man tag encounter with not alot of difference. It had some nice spots and solid wrestling, but I feel that it dragged WAAAYYY too long for its own good.

Then we turn to the Rock matches, which in my opinion was the first semi-main event feud that Hunter (and even The Rock for that matter) has ever been in. The first match in the series (2/3 falls) was a fantastic encounter, the only thing that brought it down in my eyes was the fact that these two haven't really developed their full repetoire of moves at that point, therefore being somewhat limited. A very entertaining half an hour bout nonetheless, and Hunter's first big time match as the second biggest babyface in the company. The Ladder match was the perfect blowoff to the feud, as I believe this match was Hunter AND Rocky's "coming out party" to the rest of the WWF. This was the second biggest match (and best match) on one of the most hyped and biggest PPV's of all time at that point. For Hunter and Rock to go out and steal the show was fantastic for both men, who proved they deserved a spot in the main event. HHH's best PPV match up to that point IMO. If Hunter hadn't have gotten hurt, I'm almost sure he would have gotten an earlier run with the WWF belt than what he got in the end. 

The Capital Carnage match at the end of the year was a great little pointless match that was noteable for a few things , mainly the debut of HHH's double A spinebuster on PPV, and the only encounter between the COO of the WWE and the founder of TNA  That fact really encompasses me for some reason. This was a really fast paced, back and forth match between the two with lots of excitement and action packed into about 7 minutes of ring time. Triple H showed that he had no ring rust from his injury, and was ready to move into his first full blown main event push in 1999. However, a few things had to fall into place first, which we'll get to later.....


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Y'know, whilst that War Games match is a pile of shit, it's actually really enjoyable to watch, but for all the wrong reasons. 



PsychoticViper2000 said:


> I think it took place at the end of June to coincide with Batista being the 5th and final draft pick. I believe that was the draft, and so far the only, where there would be one draft pick per show for five weeks. Speaking of which...
> 
> Do you think another draft with the same format would succeed and pique viewer interest?


No. Not in todays wrestling. You have Smackdown guys going to Raw every week and Raw guys going to Smackdown every week hell, Raw guys are going after the Smackdown World Title and Smackdown guys are going after the Raw World Title. If they sorted out the rosters then yeah, it could work but if it keeps going the way it is going, it would mean nothing....


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*John Morrison vs Sheamus ~ Ladder Match ~ TLC 2010 ****1/4*

Really great contrast of styles with the high flying style of Morrison vs the brawling style of Sheamus. Really good working over of the leg by Sheamus and a great use of the ladder in an unconventional way to hurt Morrison. Really good ending spot as well for a match that really hard to call at the time. Definatley up there for one of the best 1 on 1 ladder matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Baldwin. said:


> Y'know, whilst that War Games match is a pile of shit, it's actually really enjoyable to watch, but for all the wrong reasons.


War Games? Did I miss part of a War Games match discussion? 




Lil'Jimmy said:


> *John Morrison vs Sheamus ~ Ladder Match ~ TLC 2010 ****1/4*
> 
> Really great contrast of styles with the high flying style of Morrison vs the brawling style of Sheamus. Really good working over of the leg by Sheamus and a great use of the ladder in an unconventional way to hurt Morrison. Really good ending spot as well for a match that really hard to call at the time. Definatley up there for one of the best 1 on 1 ladder matches.


LOVE that match. Just wish Sheamus got the win tbh. Morrison never went anywhere, and Sheamus was on a role with his KOTR win and imo should have won the match and got the title shot. Sure, it would have been heel vs heel, but I would have enjoyed watching Sheamus destroy Miz .

Definitely up there as a top singles ladder match, along with the 3 HBK/Razor matches, Eddie/RVD Raw 02 and... might actually be in my top 5 now I think about it lol.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Yes, Sheamus/Morrison is a killer ladder match. Just a joy to watch. Love the finish, where Sheamus goes all Terminator on Morrison. Ha!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Huganomics said:


> Re-watched Punk/Cena MITB yesterday. DAT VIDEO PACKAGE is to fucking die for, first of all.
> 
> As for the match itself, I wouldn't go the full five, because the sloppy/lethargic points really annoy me. That spot where Punk goes for the crossbody and ends up landing on Cena's knees(barely landing on Cena at all) at all had me facepalming. Also, Lawler is SO FUCKING ANNOYING on commentary. Even more than he usually is.  But yeah, still a great, great match with a perfect build-up, atmosphere, and finish. ****1/2 - ****3/4
> 
> It's hard to believe that the same creative team that came up with the MITB build-up come up with some of the shit on TV right now.


So did I! Funny story actually. I pre-ordered Mania 28 yesterday from Silvervision and it isn't out for another 3 weeks so when I got a package in the post this morning I was a bit surprised. Turns out they sent me Summerslam 2011 on Blu-Ray absolutely free of charge and presumably by accident lol. So I watched my downloaded copy of Punk/Cena MITB, then stuck in my free Summerslam and watched Punk/Cena II along with Orton/Christian. Some ratingz:

*Punk/Cena MITB -* ******* 
(I was hesitant to give this the full 5 last year because it was just too fresh but after watching it again a year removed from the actual event, I think it's a 5* match. The little botches are easily overlooked in favor of the sheer intangible magic created by Chicago, the build and Punk/Cena themselves.)

*Punk/Cena Summerslam - *******

*Orton/Christian Summerslam -* *****1/2*


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

I got Money in the Bank 2011 on DVD, so I watched all the matches. Ratings:

SD MITB Match: ****
Divas: N/A
Henry/Show: **
Raw MITB: *** 1/2
Christian/Orton: *** 3/4
Punk/Cena: *****

This PPV was one of, if not the best,PPV of the year. Almost every match had a story to tell, and they told them well. Raw MITB was not as good as SD, but it was still a good MITB. Punk/Cena stole the show, and Christian/Orton almost got ****, but it wasn't as good as their previous matches.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Baldwin. said:


> Y'know, whilst that War Games match is a pile of shit, it's actually really enjoyable to watch, but for all the wrong reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> No. Not in todays wrestling. You have Smackdown guys going to Raw every week and Raw guys going to Smackdown every week hell, Raw guys are going after the Smackdown World Title and Smackdown guys are going after the Raw World Title. If they sorted out the rosters then yeah, it could work but if it keeps going the way it is going, it would mean nothing....


Very true. I kinda liked the idea due to its originality and freshness, but because of how lenient the brand split really is, as you mentioned, it would be pointless to even try. It was fun while it lasted though, especially since those draft picks if I remember correctly were all of importance.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

_


wwedvdnews said:



*CM Punk* has been discussing his upcoming DVD again with the Chicago Tribune while attending Kerry Wood’s Strike Zone Celebrity Bowling Tournament.

*This is your life:* CM Punk calls himself the best wrestler in the ring and on the mic, so it’s not surprising that he feels he has the best WWE DVD as well. The Lockport native said his straight-to-DVD, which will be released some time in October, is better than the ones WWE made for *John Cena*, *Rey Mysterio* and *Chris Jericho*.

“Obviously, I’m biased,” Punk said at 10pin, “but I think mine is the best. Mine starts way different than anyone else’s and ends way different than anyone else’s.”

The DVD film not only features interviews with fellow wrestlers Cena and *Triple H*, but also some of Punk’s close friends, including indie wrestler *Colt Cabana* and Rancid band member *Lars Frederiksen*.

“Honestly, it was like watching my life flash before my eyes,” Punk said. “They used a lot of footage from my early days. Just seeing the whole package put together with people I respect in the industry and have known my whole life talking about me, it seemed weird. It felt like I was at my own funeral. You get a perspective of where I come from, how hard I’ve worked and where I’m at now. It blew me away. There were a couple moments where I was like ‘Wow, this is really touching.’”

Click to expand...

_I'm starting to get hyped for this set the more Punk hypes it! I trust he also put together a kick ass match list.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*ECW Living Dangerously 1999* Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - ****3/4
*ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999* Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - ****1/2
*ECW Hardcore Heaven 2000* Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - ***3/4
*ECW Guilty As Charged 2001* Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - ****1/4

These two had great chemistry and never really ever had a bad match, I think all of their encounters over their ECW careers were at least watchable but for the most part, they were highly entertaining.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Other Smackdown 6 stuff: Matches in order of favourites

Edge v Eddie Guerrero No DQ ****1/2 ~ Edge and Rey Mysterio v Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit *****
Edge v Eddie Guerrero v Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit F4W Elimination ****1/4
Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit Royal Rumble ****3/4 or 5* (must rewatch)
Survivor Series 3 team elimination ***3/4

I've pretty much completely forgotten about the Smackdown tag rematch and I also need to rewatch it, but it'd probably slot above or below Angle/Benoit at ****1/2 ish.

Also, I watched Angle/Benoit from Wrestlemania X7 and found myself on the disappointed side. It's interesting that each year the aim of Wrestlemania is to get together the best possible mega-card, but often due to time restraints and general big-game pressures they end up falling short of what they could have been. And then they end up blowing the Wrestlemania match out of the water some way down the line. 

Summerslam 2011: ****1/2 for each main event. Good stuff.

War games: I enjoyed the hell out of it. And then Russo Russo'd. Oh well though, still fun as hell.

CM Punk's DVD: He would be one to hype it lol, but I still believe it'll be just as good as he says. I haven't watched Jericho's doc yet because I feel it'll be like going down the Heartbreak + Triumph route (once you've read the book you know everything they have to tell you.)

Rob Van Dam v Jerry Lynn: Are those matches on any set? I haven't so much as glanced at the Rise + Fall matches on the second disc.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

greendayedgehead said:


> CM Punk's DVD: He would be one to hype it lol, but I still believe it'll be just as good as he says


He would, ha. I think if the final product didn't turn out well Punk would let his feels about be heard about it, directly or indirectly. I trust Punk when he say it's quality stuff. 



> Rob Van Dam v Jerry Lynn: Are those matches on any set? I haven't so much as glanced at the Rise + Fall matches on the second disc.


ECW Living Dangerously 1999 - On Rob Van Dam's DVD
ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999 - On Rise & Fall of ECW
ECW Hardcore Heaven 2000 - Not sure if it has been released
ECW Guilty As Charged 2001 - On the Wrestling's Highest Flyers


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anybody catch wwe.com's top 50 Cena matches? :lmao

All the good ones are there for the most part but the order is insane. Orton/Cena Iron Man is like #4. :lmao


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> Anybody catch wwe.com's top 50 Cena matches? :lmao
> 
> All the good ones are there for the most part but the order is insane. Orton/Cena Iron Man is like #4. :lmao


Post. I thought everyone knew not to pay any attention to orders of WWE.com lists but eh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> Post. I thought everyone knew not to pay any attention to orders of WWE.com lists but eh.


I dunno, I like reading them for fun and I agree with them more than most people here.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> I dunno, I like reading them for fun and I agree with them more than most people here.


:lmao The match that begun his ascent to the top of the WWE (JBL/Cena) opens up the top fifty. It would be so much more convenient if they didn't have it in those annoying slideshows, but whatever, I'm making a new thread (unless someone beats me to the punch)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Here's the full list:



> *JOHN CENA'S 50 GREATEST MATCHES*
> 
> #50 John Cena vs. JBL: WrestleMania 21 (April 3, 2005)
> #49 John Cena, Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Christian, Tomko & Chris Jericho: Raw (June 27, 2005)
> ...


Nice to see the Taker SD 2004 and Mysterio Raw 2011 matches get love in the Top 20. Angle No Mercy 03 match is highly underrated. I'd put it where the NWO match is at if anything. I'm not too bothered by WWE's order because I'm used to it being weird. They did cover the best stuff for the most part. They could have added Raw match with HBK in 2009 over one of those TV tag matches and probably SummerSlam with Punk but the list doesn't look bad. They should make an anthology set for it. I bet a bunch of people would buy 5+ discs of Cena.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Am I blind or is Cena vs. Rock not on that list?


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Baldwin. said:


> Am I blind or is Cena vs. Rock not on that list?


Rock vs Cena is #23


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Ah, so it is. I'm blind.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not a big fan of that list in particular, but I have a few short things to say about it...

Nice to see some great TV matches make the list, such as vs HHH in 09 or vs Undertaker in 04. Nice to see such a forgotten gem in Sabu vs Cena from Head-to-head making the list, although I don't really believe it deserves to be there. Some of these TV matches aren't even that great, and are here mainly for historical significance such as the tag with Hogan, The tag with Taker, the triple threat on Raw, and the Smackdown matches vs Eddie and Angle. Neither of these matches deserved to make the list. 

What the fuck is up with the WWE and never mentioning the Summerslam 2011 bout between Cena and Punk ? That's arguably a top 5 Cena match and it isn't even included ? What about the match from Raw between the two which deserves to be on the list ? That can't make it, but the two Booker matches and the Khali match can ? WHAT THE FUCK ? I also understand there's supposed to be a mix of historical significance on the list, but his match at WM XXI vs JBL just plain sucked, and shouldn't have been on the list at all. 

Also, WHY DOES THE WWE FUCKING LOVE MATCHES CENA AND ORTON SO MUCH ? They're mediocre and everybody else realizes it besides them. To have the ironman match at number 3 is horrendous, especially seeing it's above countless matches that should be higher. I'm done complaining about this, as it's just a stupid WWE.COM list, but here's my top 10 John Cena matches off the top of my head, thoughts ?

1. vs CM Punk MITB 11 : *******
2. vs CM Punk SS 11 : ***** 1/2*
3. vs Umaga RR 07 : ***** 1/2*
4. vs Brock Lesnar ER 12 : ***** 1/2*
5. vs JBL JD 05 : ***** 1/4*
6. vs Edge UNF 06 : ***** 1/4*
7. vs Triple H WM XXII : ******
8. vs CM Punk Raw Sept 11 : ******
9. vs Shawn Michaels WM XXIII : ******
10... Couldn't choose, so here's a 5 way tie..

vs Shawn Michaels Raw 09 : ******
vs Shawn Michaels Raw 07 : ******
vs Triple H Raw 09 : ******
vs Triple H NOC 08 : ******
vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H SS 09 : ******

Should of just made it a top 15 list.... Throw Cena vs Umaga in there from NYR 07 (******) and call it a day  .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Order is fucked up, but yeah, that's WWE. No doubt their criteria isn't great matches, hence these all being there when they suck:

#50 John Cena vs. JBL: WrestleMania 21 (April 3, 2005)
#49 John Cena, Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Christian, Tomko & Chris Jericho: Raw (June 27, 2005)
#48 John Cena vs. The Great Khali: Judgment Day 2007 (May 20, 2007)
#47 John Cena vs. Booker T: SummerSlam 2004 (Aug. 15, 2004)
#46 John Cena & The Rock vs. The Miz & R-Truth: Survivor Series 2011 (Nov. 20, 2011)
#43 John Cena vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison: Extreme Rules 2011 (May 1, 2011)
#42 John Cena vs. Kane: Elimination Chamber 2012 (Feb. 19, 2012)
#39 John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Summerslam 2007 (Aug. 26, 2007)
#36 John Cena vs. Wade Barrett: WWE TLC 2010 (Dec. 19, 2010)
#32 WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: New Year's Revolution 2006 (Jan. 8, 2006)
#26 John Cena vs. Sabu: WWE vs. ECW Head to Head (June 7, 2006)
#23 John Cena vs. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson: WrestleMania 28 (April 1, 2012)
#19 2008 Royal Rumble Match (Jan. 27, 2008)
#16 John Cena vs. Big Show: WrestleMania XX (March 14, 2004)
#13 John Cena vs. Booker T: No Mercy 2004 (Oct. 3, 2004)
#6 John Cena vs. Umaga: Royal Rumble 2007 (Jan. 28, 2007)
#3 John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Bragging Rights 2009 (Oct. 25, 2009)

And a handful of other questionable matches too .


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

KingCal said:


> Order is fucked up, but yeah, that's WWE. No doubt their criteria isn't great matches, hence these all being there when they suck:
> 
> #50 John Cena vs. JBL: WrestleMania 21 (April 3, 2005)
> #49 John Cena, Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Christian, Tomko & Chris Jericho: Raw (June 27, 2005)
> ...


you hate the Umaga/Cena match from Royal Rumble 2007?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Order is fucked up, but yeah, that's WWE. No doubt their criteria isn't great matches, hence these all being there when they suck:
> 
> #50 John Cena vs. JBL: WrestleMania 21 (April 3, 2005)
> #49 John Cena, Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Christian, Tomko & Chris Jericho: Raw (June 27, 2005)
> ...


gtfo Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match isn't that good, and the finish is a load of fucking retarded bullshit!!!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Umaga is a top 5 Cena match for me. I fudgin love that thing.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lesnar V Cena is overrated too.

Its just a normal John Cena TV match except with some blood. John Cena sells for 95% of the match, and right at the very end pulls of a comeback and wins. And in this case agaisnt the way Brock Lesnar was booked in the build up as an unstoppable beast, it was just fucking bullshit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cena/Umaga is one of my favorite matches in WWE history. :$


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

The list inspired me to start my own project over at Puroresu.tv. If anyone is interested in sending their top 20 list for the project just let me know. Does anyone think any matches are missing?

http://www.puroresu.tv/forums/topic...ry-the-top-20-matches-of-john-cena-2002-2012/ 

Sorry if this is against the rules, by the way.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Triple H vs. John Cena from Night Of Champions gets pissed on way to much. That blows away their Mania encounter.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> Cena/Umaga is one of my favorite matches in WWE history. :$


I wouldn't go that far lol but its definitely a top 5 Cena match for sure imo. 

Brock/Cena is surreal and something we'll never see again unless they take it even further with Brock/HHH. Wouldn't that be fun lol?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Caponex75 said:


> Triple H vs. John Cena from Night Of Champions gets pissed on way to much. That blows away their Mania encounter.


I love that match. I have it on an even level with their one from Raw in '09.

WM 22 one was a good match but for some reason I generally have trouble getting into it. Although on my last view I liked it more.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Which match from 09? Are you talking about the one before Bragging Rights? If so I don't see how it was up there. Dat Leg Selling by Triple H and the Crossface counter to the STFU were wicked.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> I love that match. I have it on an even level with their one from Raw in '09.
> 
> WM 22 one was a good match but for some reason I generally have trouble getting into it. Although on my last view I liked it more.


I love all the Cena/Trips matches. They have great chemistry together and it always felt special when they squared off, well, it did until they whored it out in their later matches. I also love the 2 triple threats with Edge and HBK involving them also.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Cena is very clumsy in the WM 22 match. The rematch they had at NOC blows their Wrestlemania 22 match away.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Oh and there is no way in blue thunder dome hell that Triple H is going to get a better match out of Lesnar than Cena did that night. Unless Triple H reveals he has been training with Maywheater and Sonnen and we get a shoot extravaganza match, I don't see the two mixing well.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I couldn't get into the Triple H/Shawn Michaels/John Cena Triple Threat match from Survivor Series. I found myself strongly disliking it 5 minutes into it. Triple H/Edge/John Cena on the other hand is a fantastic Triple Threat, the ending was so annoying, at the time I was a huge Triple H mark and legit thought he was going to win when he went for the Pedigree at the end. Trips never seems to be able to kick out of that jackknife cover.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I wouldn't go that far lol but its definitely a top 5 Cena match for sure imo.
> 
> Brock/Cena is surreal and something we'll never see again unless they take it even further with Brock/HHH. Wouldn't that be fun lol?


Cena got stiffed to fuck in that ER match, and I would LOVE Brock to try it on with Triple H. I think they would genuinely start killing each other.

Do you know what match I love? Jericho v Benoit RR01. *****, and I'd even say that it was the new 'standard' in terms of ladder matches. Wrestling (especially ladder matches) have changed a lot since Wrestlemania X.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think Brock/HHH will top Brock/Cena either. I meant that the only way they will be able to top it is if they take it a step further than that which is pretty much impossible given that it isn't Brock's first showing, the magic is sort of gone and especially since Cena actually beat Brock. We all know the monster can be killed. I just want them to come out and beat the shit out of each other lol in a similar WTFISHAPPENINGHERE type of aura to that of Brock/Cena. I'll be happy with that but if they come out and we get a normal wrestling match then fuck that shit. Trips want to FIGHT so we better get a fucking fight lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> Cena got stiffed to fuck in that ER match, and I would LOVE Brock to try it on with Triple H. I think they would genuinely start killing each other.
> 
> Do you know what match I love? Jericho v Benoit RR01. *****, and I'd even say that it was the new 'standard' in terms of ladder matches. Wrestling (especially ladder matches) have changed a lot since Wrestlemania X.


That dive out of the ring into the chair shot...FUCK


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I am not going to lie, I am going to watch some of those Cena matches tonight, is there anywhere I could find that Hogan/Cena/HBK tag? That really interests me.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> I am not going to lie, I am going to watch some of those Cena matches tonight, is there anywhere I could find that Hogan/Cena/HBK tag? That really interests me.


I'm guessing YouTube. It's honestly a standard TV match save for the post match pose off, which was nice.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

List is bleh but I wasn't expecting anything better. Glad the Rock match wasn't high, and glad the Umaga match was. Cena/Umaga's like a top 5 WWE of the decade. Or #6. 

I noticed the No Way Out 08 Orton match isn't on there either. Clearly a list after Cal's heart.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its obvious WWE hate me and do these lists just to piss me off. Bastards!


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I think Cena said somewhere that his favorite match was WrestleMania 22 against Triple H. I don't know how he can say that because that match was a complete carry-job. But their later matches (none as good) were pretty good too.

Cena's best match is UMAGA, no doubt.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> I am not going to lie, I am going to watch some of those Cena matches tonight, is there anywhere I could find that Hogan/Cena/HBK tag? That really interests me.



Vengeance 2005 DVD
John Cena : My Life DVD



MOTN for Summerslam is going to be Cena/Punk if they go ahead with the "supposed" plans. As long as it's not Punk vs Show/Tensai we'll be okay. Trips/Lesnar is going to be fine. It's TRIPLE H, how could it possibly be bad ?  (Ignore most of 2002-2003....)

Actually, I can't wait to get to 2000 HHH (only a few matches away), then it'll be on to the post first-quad injury... You'll have to wish me luck from that point on. It's weird because I'm actually a BIG fan of Steiner, so it's weird to see two wrestlers that I enjoy so much be..well...Absolute shit. You have to admit ; When motivated, Steiner can put on a hell of match, even during his 2000 WCW run he did some good work IMO with Goldberg.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Part of me actually wants to go back to the 2002/2003 HHH as well, but the other part of me is the sensible one.  I was actually going to look at his 2004-2008 in parts again soon, though. Plus there's stuff I never got around to like NOC v Cena or Backlash v Batista. And I only remember TV matches like the late 07 one with Flair when it actually happened. 

Trip/Steiner could have been fine if it was a short match where Steiner ran through Hunter only for Trip to cheat a victory at the end. Instead we got 20 minutes of Steiner blowing his moves and HHH doing the most poor man's Ric Flair possible.

you know what.............I'm watching that today. The Sensible Me can go fuck himself.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I really want to watch that Rumble '03 match between Trips and Steiner.  Haven't watched it since then, but I can't seem to get myself to rewatch matches that I've already watched before. Even as a whole, I've lost the diehard "wrestling fan" in me. It's more of a WrestleMania fan now.

It doesn't need a lot of researching but Hunter's better matches during 2002/2003 period are SummerSlam 2002, WrestleMania XIX, Raw against Flair (May 2003), Bad Blood 2003, and Raw against Michaels (December 2003). I really like the HIAC against Nash.

My ratings for most of Hunter's matches in the 2002/2003 period. Mainly PPV matches, with TV matches here and there--cut/paste job.


- Triple H vs. Kurt Angle - Raw Episode 02/18/2002; Number 1 Contender's Match ~ **** 1/2*

- Triple H vs. Chris Jericho © - WrestleMania X-8, 03/17/2002; Undisputed WWF Championship ~ ** 3/4*

- Kurt Angle vs. Triple H - Raw Episode 04/03/2002; Steel Cage Match ~ *** 1/2*

- Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Triple H © - Backlash 2002; Undisputed WWE Championship ~ ****

- Triple H vs. The Undertaker - InsurreXtion, 05/04/2002 ~ ****

- Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Judgment Day, 05/19/2002; Hell in a Cell ~ *****

- The Rock © vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - Global Warning Tour, 08/10/2002; WWE Undisputed Championship ~ **** 1/4*

- Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - SummerSlam, 08/25/2002; Unsanctioned Match ~ ***** 3/4*

- Triple H © vs. Kane © - No Mercy, 10/20/2002; Winner Take All ~ *** 1/2*

- Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H © vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Booker T vs. Rob Van Dam - Survivor Series, 11/17/2002; World Heavyweight Championship; Elimination Chamber ~ **** 1/2*

- Triple H © vs. Booker T - WrestleMania XIX, 03/30/2003; World Heavyweight Championship ~ **** 3/4*

- Triple H © vs. Ric Flair - Raw Episode, 05/19/2003; World Heavyweight Championship ~ **** 3/4* _(Love this match; probably my favorite of the year)_

- Triple H © vs. Kevin Nash - Bad Blood, 06/15/2003; World Heavyweight Championship; Hell in a Cell /w Special Guest Referee Mick Foley ~ **** 1/2*

- Goldberg vs. Triple H © - Unforgiven, 09/23/2003; World Heavyweight Championship ~ ****

- Goldberg © vs. Triple H - Survivor Series, 11/16/2003; World Heavyweight Championship ~ ***

- Triple H vs. Goldberg © vs. Kane - Armageddon, 12/14/2003; World Heavyweight Championship ~ *** 3/4*

- Triple H © vs. Shawn Michaels - Raw Episode, 12/29/2003; World Heavyweight Championship ~ ***** 1/2*

I did these in 2009 (I believe). Missed out on plenty of matches, and that's why they aren't here.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm not big on rewatching matches any more tbh, I can do the old school stuff with ease but the newer modern day suff for the most part, I just can't be bothered to watch again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Part of me actually wants to go back to the 2002/2003 HHH as well, but the other part of me is the sensible one.  I was actually going to look at his 2004-2008 in parts again soon, though. Plus there's stuff I never got around to like NOC v Cena or Backlash v Batista. And I only remember TV matches like the late 07 one with Flair when it actually happened.
> 
> Trip/Steiner could have been fine if it was a short match where Steiner ran through Hunter only for Trip to cheat a victory at the end. Instead we got 20 minutes of Steiner blowing his moves and HHH doing the most poor man's Ric Flair possible.
> 
> you know what.............I'm watching that today. The Sensible Me can go fuck himself.


Definitely give Backlash Vs Batista a watch. SHOULD have been a great match had Batista not fucked it up towards the end. Before that, they teased the Pedigree being THE finish that not even Batista could survive, and Trips did some pretty spectacular back work too.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Razor King said:


> - *Triple H vs. The Undertaker - InsurreXtion, 05/04/2002 ~* ****


Actually this is a very good match and better than their match at King of The Ring - ****1/2* for me.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

robertdeniro said:


> Actually this is a very good match and better than their match at King of The Ring - ****1/2* for me.


I just couldn't get into it. It's not awful, but it's really unspectacular. The ropes breaking didn't help much either.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So I actually watch H/Steiner, and I'm really, really glad I did. First parts were boring as shit, but once they....um, 'picked it up' (which isn't the right term since it was slow and plodding), it just got legitimately funny. I'm literally telling the honest-to-God 100% truth when I say I laughed at some of the moments in this match. First time was the tombstone reversal which ended in this fucked up stunner/neckbreaker/diamond cutter move which Steiner sold by pretty much falling backwards. Trip nearly fell on top of him and I nearly fell off of my bed in laughter. Just when I'm about to get over that Steiner pretty much trips over while giving Trip the worst butterfly powerbomb thingy of all time. Match was a total mess; I thought they might go a good route when Ric brings Trip to leave the match, but then Steiner comes after them and Ric distracts the ref for Trip to hit Steiner with the belt. Except he didn't and Steiner hits him instead. They should have LET Trip hit Steiner and they should have done it in the first few minutes of a 12 minute match (it went like 20...). Steiner's selling was almost non-existant when Flair got cheapshots in. He was wrestling like a morbidly obese man that belongs on one of those motorised scooters. The both of them looked like shitty trainee wrestlers trying to emulate what they were seeing on TV, and it was just an awful match. But it was fucking hilarious. ****3/4. I'm watching the No Way Out re-match tomorrow.



Baldwin. said:


> I'm not big on rewatching matches any more tbh, I can do the old school stuff with ease but the newer modern day suff for the most part, I just can't be bothered to watch again.


I'm sort of this way recently. I've re-watched pretty little in recent weeks despite absolutely tearing through wrestling. Some days I've watch hour upon hour upon HOUR but none of it is stuff I've seen before. If I get to something I've seen in the past two years on a DVD I skip it.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Chances are if a match is over 20 minutes, I will not be rewatching it. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of my favourite matches are around that time, any longer and I just cannot be arsed usually.


> But it was fucking hilarious. ****3/4. I'm watching the No Way Out re-match tomorrow.


"Gave up the snowflakes", he said. "No more star ratings", he said


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> So I actually watch H/Steiner, and I'm really, really glad I did. First parts were boring as shit, but once they....um, 'picked it up' (which isn't the right term since it was slow and plodding), it just got legitimately funny. I'm literally telling the honest-to-God 100% truth when I say I laughed at some of the moments in this match. First time was the tombstone reversal which ended in this fucked up stunner/neckbreaker/diamond cutter move which Steiner sold by pretty much falling backwards. Trip nearly fell on top of him and I nearly fell off of my bed in laughter. Just when I'm about to get over that Steiner pretty much trips over while giving Trip the worst butterfly powerbomb thingy of all time. Match was a total mess; I thought they might go a good route when Ric brings Trip to leave the match, but then Steiner comes after them and Ric distracts the ref for Trip to hit Steiner with the belt. Except he didn't and Steiner hits him instead. They should have LET Trip hit Steiner and they should have done it in the first few minutes of a 12 minute match (it went like 20...). Steiner's selling was almost non-existant when Flair got cheapshots in. He was wrestling like a morbidly obese man that belongs on one of those motorised scooters. The both of them looked like shitty trainee wrestlers trying to emulate what they were seeing on TV, and it was just an awful match. But it was fucking hilarious. ****3/4. I'm watching the No Way Out re-match tomorrow.


I always thought that the matches and the program with Steiner was very "entertaining" but never got why he was challenging for the title though. Anyway I love that match.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

If you gonna rate a match just for the hilarity, might as well rate it full ***** unless ofcourse you're saving that up for a much more "hilarious" match. Sting vs Jeff hardy? :jeff


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Don't know if anyone caught this, but up to 70% off DVDs/Blu-Rays from WWEShop.

http://www.wweshop.com/category/DVDMedia/DVDBluRay?cid=DVD70OffSaleASpot_6.29.12

AMAZING deal especially since most of this are relatively new. Falls Count Anyhwere for $10? Great stuff. I'll be saving at least $50.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> So I actually watch H/Steiner, and I'm really, really glad I did. First parts were boring as shit, but once they....um, 'picked it up' (which isn't the right term since it was slow and plodding), it just got legitimately funny. I'm literally telling the honest-to-God 100% truth when I say I laughed at some of the moments in this match. First time was the tombstone reversal which ended in this fucked up stunner/neckbreaker/diamond cutter move which Steiner sold by pretty much falling backwards. Trip nearly fell on top of him and I nearly fell off of my bed in laughter. Just when I'm about to get over that Steiner pretty much trips over while giving Trip the worst butterfly powerbomb thingy of all time. Match was a total mess; I thought they might go a good route when Ric brings Trip to leave the match, but then Steiner comes after them and Ric distracts the ref for Trip to hit Steiner with the belt. Except he didn't and Steiner hits him instead. They should have LET Trip hit Steiner and they should have done it in the first few minutes of a 12 minute match (it went like 20...). Steiner's selling was almost non-existant when Flair got cheapshots in. He was wrestling like a morbidly obese man that belongs on one of those motorised scooters. The both of them looked like shitty trainee wrestlers trying to emulate what they were seeing on TV, and it was just an awful match. But it was fucking hilarious. ****3/4. I'm watching the No Way Out re-match tomorrow.


Dammit, I actually kinda wanna watch the match now. Fucker.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

More info on the Undertaker Streak DVD


> After receiving our copy of “Undertaker: The Streak” earlier this week we can reveal some exclusive pictures and details about the set.
> 
> Firstly as a number of readers suggested when the cover art was revealed the DVD set does have a slip cover which unveils a picture of The Undertaker on the inside packaging; as you can see in the pictures below.
> 
> ...


Source: WWE DVD News
http://www.wwedvdnews.com/exclusive-wwe-undertaker-the-streak-pictures-and-news/24974/


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is this segment on a DVD as i seen a HD version here:






Also noticed the newer WWE logo...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That clip is probably from WWE 24/7. That would explain the newer WWE logo as opposed to the old school WWF logo. 

Fuck... Now I can't wait to get to the HHH-Steiner series, and I'm not even at 2000 yet....


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> That clip is probably from WWE 24/7. That would explain the newer WWE logo as opposed to the old school WWF logo.


Ah, thanks mate, that does explain it...


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just got done with the last disc of Evolution of a Predator. The documentary is awesome and you really learn alot about Randy and his entire life, as well as cool backstage footage all leading up to his Wrestlemania 27 match with CM Punk. Certainly one of the better documentary's I have seen.

The match selection is very good and but I find disc 2 to be miles ahead of disc 3. Disc 3 does have some good matches from recent memory, but overall disc 2 has the more entertaining, quality matches.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Orton's doc is too kayfabey for my liking.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mr Joe Perfect said:


> I always thought that the matches and the program with Steiner was very "entertaining" but never got why he was challenging for the title though. Anyway I love that match.


I didn't get why he got a Title shot either. In the build up video he just comes out when HHH has the belt and tells Bishcoff "I have a title shot in my contract; if I don't get I'm leaving." I actually thought the rest of the build up was surprisingly good. I mean it wasn't actually good at all, but I expected the worst ever so anything next to 'average' was surprising. I kind of liked how they just let Steiner embarrass Trip in all the shitty arm wrestling/pose-down things they did, and Hunter actually looked scared by the end. Then comes the match and they don't really play off of that.

I'm watching 90s All Japan and the Steiner/Trip rematch today. Not sure which one I'm more excited about. :mark:


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

didnt they do a dvd of all undertakers wm matches recently


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That was 2007, I think.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think it was just a 1 disc short doc with a couple matches on it.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Clique said:


> Here's the full list:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see the Taker SD 2004 and Mysterio Raw 2011 matches get love in the Top 20. Angle No Mercy 03 match is highly underrated. I'd put it where the NWO match is at if anything. I'm not too bothered by WWE's order because I'm used to it being weird. They did cover the best stuff for the most part. They could have added Raw match with HBK in 2009 over one of those TV tag matches and probably SummerSlam with Punk but the list doesn't look bad. They should make an anthology set for it. I bet a bunch of people would buy 5+ discs of Cena.




No Cena vs Jesus w/ Carlito??!? 
Blasphemy!!

That's like having a HHH top 50 an not having his classic with Orton at WM25. There both my favorite kind of match! One sided bouts worth boring offense on a guy who can't sell!!



greendayedgehead said:


> Do you know what match I love? Jericho v Benoit RR01. *****, and I'd even say that it was the new 'standard' in terms of ladder matches. Wrestling (especially ladder matches) have changed a lot since Wrestlemania X.



This helps me segue into my review for today.

*Ladder Match TIT No Mercy '99
The Brood (Matt & Jeff Hardy) vs Edge & Christian*

THIS is the match that set the new standard for ladder matches today. While I do love Benoit/Jericho, this match took place nearly 2 years before it. This match is often forgotten, especially compared to there TLC matches and the traingle ladder match. What this match did was change the ladder match from more of an almost technical like match to the spotfest that many identify the ladder match as. Before this match the ladder match was more strategy based then full on mayhem. Incapacitate your opponent to get up the ladder, simple. Now the match is seen as an all out war with the last man standing winning. There can be debate about whether this is good or bad for the match but that's not my point. My point is this is the match to first do this, even though many consider the WM2000 one as the first. Also this is the first time more than two competitors were ever in a ladder match, another big staple as RARELY EEEEVER see just two guys in ladder match anymore.

So there's a little history. But why do I love this match? Three reasons:


1. This match doesn't feel like as much of a cluttered mess as many current ladder matches do. Any more these matches are just jumbled messes, ESPECIALLY Money in the Bank. This match does it like organized chaos. For the most part it doe st seem like they're just setting up for later spots like MITB does.

2. The idea is really fresh here. As said above this match changed what ladder matches later became. So the moves we're fresh. Nowadays we expect the bumps and the spots, but it wasn't expected here. And some spots are pretty innovative too. They even do the spot that shattered Mercurys face right here. But the third reason is MOST important to me.

3. The crowd did not give two shits about this match. At least at first they didn't. Remember at this point these teams were just lower mid card guys
With long hair. Jeff Hardy wasn't known as a daredevil, Matt didn't have Lita, and Edge and Christian weren't reeking of awesomeness yet. During their entrances you can almost here crickets. So why does that make this match better than other matches? Simple. By the end of it every person that was sitting down was on their feet. These guy went into that match and won the crowd over, something not easy to do in wrestling, especially more casual fans. By the end of it you felt like you just saw the future of this business flash before your eyes. And you kinda did, 3 of the 4 went on to be World Champion. And it all started here. 

****


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm taking my viewings another step further and watching every singles PPV match HHH had in 2003. Half of the people who know me say I'm crazy, the other half are wrong.

v Scott Steiner (No Way Out)- Not as stupidly awesome as the historically shitty Rumble match, but pretty terrible/fantastic in it's own right. Trip has a bandaged leg going in and Steiner wastes little time going for it. Which was stupid. When he fired the first shot HHH backed away and looked like 'oh shit I better watch out,' only for Scotty for pound it for the next two minutes. They could have played a good theme, but I guess Steiner didn't want to waste time and become the wheezing huffing sack he was in the first match. The punches in this....oh Lord the punches. I'm not a guy who really thinks punches can make or break a match (they'd have to be amazing or miss by two feet), but they can certainly add or subtract. And these were the most light and feathery punches you'll ever see. When Trip first goes for the Pedigree Steiner gets out of it and throws the absolute worst one you'll see in some time. I thought it was actually kind if funny. Not as funny as the awkward-as-all-hell top rope....suplex...angle slam...thing. It wasn't even that, Steiner gets Trip in the wrong direction at first then just puts him on his shoulders and tilts backwards. Reminded me of Wile E. Coyote falling on a cliff really slowly while riding a rocket. They actually sort of play off the Rumble match; I didn't mention this when talking about that one, but Trip threw Hebner out of the ring and Hebner refused to DQ him. I can only imagine what people watching it live would have thought. "NOOO!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.......PLEASE END THIS EARL" They sort of do the same thing here, but the crowd actually boo Hebner, mostly because they're Montrealions (Montrealites.....Montrealicians, Montrealasians, IDK) and are full of hate about the screwjob. Which is ironic since Trip played a bigger part in it than Earl did. Flair calls for Orton and Batista, and no joke, their selling is the best part of either Steiner/HHH match. Orton looked great for those 23 seconds. I thought it was nice that Steiner kicked out when HHH hit him with the belt following that, but there is literally nothing between that and the Pedigree that scores him the win. I don't understand who'd book that or why they did, but sweet ice cream on a cone it can get funny. Just terrible wrestling. Don't expect to find these matches funny like I did.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The reason Steiner got a title shot straight away is because both Stephanie and Bischoff were trying to sign him to their brand, and offering him a shot at the title helped sway his decision.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

*WWE Superstars 10.11.11 - Daniel Bryan vs William Regal *

This feels like it never really got going. There were some nice things in, like some early armwork from Regal and then kneework by Bryan and some decent suplexes etc. But it just felt like neither man clicked and could really show what they were capable of which is a bit sad. Not a bad match, just kind of disappointing considering who was in it 

*****

*Finlay vs Chris Benoit - Judgement Day 2006*

This was great. Just two guys beating the hell out of each other. Finlay plays a sadistic bastard really well (some of his neckwork looks brutal and is just fantastic) and Benoit has the crowd behind him which helps his comebacks. A really nice touch I noticed from Finlay too was whenever Benoit went for a German Finlay would actually try to fight out of it which is something I don't really see that much. I remember hearing good things about this a while back and it definitely delivered.

*****1/2*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Love that Benoit/Finlay match as well as their Smackdown matches that year 5/5/06 and 11/24/06. Perfect example of smash mouth wrestling. Also check out Benoit/Regal from Velocity 7/16/05. The way those men made their matches feel like a fight and struggle was magnificent to watch. The chops, the headbutts, the forearm smashes, the suplexes ~ glorious!


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Shepard said:


> *WWE Superstars 10.11.11 - Daniel Bryan vs William Regal *
> 
> This feels like it never really got going. There were some nice things in, like some early armwork from Regal and then kneework by Bryan and some decent suplexes etc. But it just felt like neither man clicked and could really show what they were capable of which is a bit sad. Not a bad match, just kind of disappointing considering who was in it
> 
> ...



Are these OFFICIAL SHEPARD RATINGS?


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Clique said:


> Love that Benoit/Finlay match as well as their Smackdown matches that year 5/5/06 and 11/24/06. Perfect example of smash mouth wrestling. Also check out Benoit/Regal from Velocity 7/16/05. The way those men made their matches feel like a fight and struggle was magnificent to watch. The chops, the headbutts, the forearm smashes, the suplexes ~ glorious!


(Y) i'll give those a watch, thanks.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Are these OFFICIAL SHEPARD RATINGS?


Nah, the unofficial ones.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

:sadpanda


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Shepard said:


> *Finlay vs Chris Benoit - Judgement Day 2006*
> 
> This was great. Just two guys beating the hell out of each other. Finlay plays a sadistic bastard really well (some of his neckwork looks brutal and is just fantastic) and Benoit has the crowd behind him which helps his comebacks. A really nice touch I noticed from Finlay too was whenever Benoit went for a German Finlay would actually try to fight out of it which is something I don't really see that much. I remember hearing good things about this a while back and it definitely delivered.
> 
> *****1/2*


Mmm, fuck yeah, one of the coolest matches in WWE ever.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> :sadpanda













*Chris Benoit vs William Regal - Velocity 7/16/05*

Awesome match. Great combination of technical and physical wrestling and Benoits headbutt to Regal looks brutal. Pace never seems to let up that much and high pitched Josh Matthews practically marking out on commentary for the whole match makes it even greater for me.

*****1/4*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^

:mark:

Benoit fighting to lock Regal in the full nelson and eventually applying it to hit a Dragon Suplex is one of my favorite moments in wrestling ever.

Their No Mercy 06 match had the chop to the head which was also an awesome manly moment.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

^ The chop to the head was indeed awesome.

Tag Team Turmoil - Judgment Day 2001: ***1/2 - ***3/4
This match was a lot of fun. I really liked the story here with X-Factor dominating a good portion of the match with the help of Albert, the newly-formed team of Jericho and Benoit overcoming that, and them going against Edge and Christian at the end. Also, I forgot how great JR and Heyman were together on commentary. They made this 30+ minute marathon of a match more enjoyable. But yeah, this is probably the best tag team turmoil they've done.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Survivor Series 2003

Team Angle/Team Lesnar - ***1/2 (Strange as fuck the way it was booked but it's a really entertaining match)
Lita/Molly - Meh
Kane/Shane - ***1/2
Bashams/Los Guerreros - **
Team Bischoff/Team Austin - ****1/4
Vince/Taker - DUD
Goldberg/Trips - *1/4

Outside of the 2 elimination matches and Kane/Shane I didn't care for this much but it winds up being a fun show. Lame main event though. And the Taker/Vince match is DREADFUL.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Coolquip said:


> *Ladder Match TIT No Mercy '99
> The Brood (Matt & Jeff Hardy) vs Edge & Christian*
> 
> THIS is the match that set the new standard for ladder matches today.


Oh yes, absolutely. But in terms of singles ladder matches, Benoit and Jericho took the concept created by these men here and applied it, IMHO perfectly, to a one on one matchup. You correctly identified this match as being the one to spawn everything we enjoy about ladder matches post 2000 (multi-man, TLC et cetera) but I was drawing the link to the Wrestlemania X ladder match being considered the 'standard' and perhaps suggesting that people wanting to do a more modern take on it would look to the Benoit/Jericho match instead.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've said this a million times, but I still think Benoit/Finlay's a top ten match in WWE history. Agreed on Regal/Bryan not being what it could have been, I was kinda disappointed by it as well.


----------



## ljones97 (Feb 11, 2012)

The Best of WCW clash of the champions DVD looks good, i might get it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ljones97 said:


> The Best of WCW clash of the champions DVD looks good, i might get it.


Comprehensive review here:

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/review-wwe-best-of-wcw-clash-of-champions-dvd/24023/

Shame the case isn't the normal cardboard fold out one though...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> Survivor Series 2003
> 
> Team Angle/Team Lesnar - ***1/2 (Strange as fuck the way it was booked but it's a really entertaining match)
> Lita/Molly - Meh
> ...


I finally tracked down a copy (albeit second hand) of this, i really like the show oerall tbh, Kane-Mcmahaon was excellent for what it is i thought, and the two main SS events were great...


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I hated survivor series 2003, I didn't enjoy one match on the card a whole lot and it probably was the worst PPV of 2003, IMO. Team Bischoff/Team Austin was MOTN but I'd only give that ***


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

*Armageddon 2006*

Kane v MVP *****
Paul London & Brian Kendrick v MNM v Hardy Boyz v William Regal & Dave Taylor ****3/4*
Boogeyman v The Miz *1/2**
Chris Benoit v Chavo Guerrero ***1/2*
Gregory Helms v Jimmy Wang Yang ****
Undertaker v Mr Kennedy ****1/2*
John Cena & Batista v King Booker & Finlay ***1/2*


Very good PPV, everything is watchable, all 3 gimmick matches delivered and a great way to end a good PPV year.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Tempted to get that bluray. Was a good event and the extras are fun.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Can't remember much about it other the the WHC match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember a damn thing about that show lol. Anyone got some ratings/thoughts on it? Might pick up the bluray if its worth it.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

My thoughts were that both Elimination Chambers delivered, even if the winners were both predictable. Miz v Lawyer was as good as it could of been, other matches were filler (Del Rio/Kingston was a very good filler match though I thought).

Personally I thought the SD elimination chamber was one of the best ive seen with Drew McIntyre giving a great performance. Edge and Mysterio had some fantastic segments also. And the Raw elimination chamber was very decent, even if my enjoyment of it was ruined slightly by how predictable the result was.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh shit, EC 2011 was the one with McIntyre going crazy? Awesome. Might get it just for that lol :lmao.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

KingCal said:


> I don't remember a damn thing about that show lol. Anyone got some ratings/thoughts on it? Might pick up the bluray if its worth it.


Thought both chamber matches were fantastic, with the SD one in particular being outstanding.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Oh shit, EC 2011 was the one with McIntyre going crazy? Awesome. Might get it just for that lol :lmao.


Thats the one (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just looked up my thoughts after the show happened, seems I only really liked the SD chamber (***1/2). Everything else I gave less than ***. Might not bother now lol.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

*John Cena/CM Punk MITB 11*

Awesome. The crowd made this match for me, there were a few sloppy exchanges between the two but overall it was well paced and an even affair. The near falls were well done and even had me (a year after the event) jump up (especially after Punk took the second FU)

*****1/4*

*SD MITB 11*

Something about this didn't sit with me right, i don't know whether it was the amount of men in the match and how half of them were down for an obscene amount of time or what but something just felt off. MVP of the match was Sheamus, he took a few bumps and gave the best ones of the match. The end sequence was okay but not as good as the one later on (even if it was slighty delayed when the ladders fell)

***** just.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*Backlash 2005*

*Intercontinental Championship* Shelton Benjamin vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/2
*Tag Team turmoil* - **
*Last Man Standing* Chris Benoit vs. Edge - ***3/4
Viscera vs. Kane - *
Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Muhammad Hassan & Daivari - **1/2
*World Heavyweight Championship:* Batista vs. Triple H - ***


*Vengeance 2005*

*Intercontinental Championship* Carlito vs. Shelton Benjamin - **1/2
Victoria vs. Christy Hemme - DUD
Edge vs. Kane - *1/2
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels - ***3/4
*WWE Championship* John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Christian - ***
*World Championship/Hell In A Cell* Batista vs. Triple H - ****


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Am I the only one that has Batista vs. Triple H at Vengeance 2005 at atleast ****1/2? The third best Hell In A Cell match in my opinion, behind Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, which are #1 and #2 respectively.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Well, the first time I watched it I nearly had a seizure and subsequently rated it *****. I might have to reconsider it, but eh. I don't recall feeling that wired up watching any other WWE match ever.

Triple H does this thing (he did it in the WM28 match too) where he picks up his sledgehammer right at the time the other guy picks him up to slam him and it makes you go OMFG REVERSAL!!!1! but then he gets slammed anyway. That's one thing that stuck out to me because I'm always paying attention to the little details, which usually isn't good for me because I catch them calling spots or something. But things like that make me glad I do.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Probably not, no. I just never enjoyed Batista/Triple H all that much. Never thought they had great chemistry together and wasn't that interested when they faced each other.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Watched the Judgement Day 01 Tag Turmoil the other day and I still love that match as much as I did when I first saw it. Following on from that, I'm trying to work my way through the WWE's tag turmoil matches (mostly to reminisce about the state of the division).

On my list so far, I have;
Judgement Day 2001
Armageddon 2003
Backlash 2005
New Year's Revolution 2007
Extreme Rules 2010
Night of Champions 2010

Are there any more PPV turmoil matches I'm missing? And was there any TV turmoil matches? I'm hopeless for remembering matches from TV (particularly low/mid-card ones)...


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Humm, Summerslam 1999 iirc.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Dudley Boyz Tag Team Table Invitational at No Mercy 2000 was kind of like a turmoil match only you had to put a man through a table to eliminate the team.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

More 2003 HHH! I am the Game and I am blowing chunks. 

v Booker T (Mania XIX) 
- So I've never really seen all of the build up to this. I get the bits and pieces, and Jerry Lawler bringing up that Book was arrested at a young age is something, but it's not the fried chicken-level racism that this was apparently based from. Either way of all the PPV matches of HHH's 2003, I was looking forward to this the most, and actually because it has a good rep and not because I want to do spit-takes. My stock on Booker T has gone up a good deal since the beginning of the year; it started with the WCW when I was surprised none of the Benoit matches of '98 were the carry-jobs I thought they might be, and I've thought he's been a really capable wrestler in everything I've seen him in. Including this. I think all in all this was a good match, but it kind of suffers from, I don't know how to phrase it, but the kind of thing HHH would do in all of his matches around this time...random bullshit. Most of the early and mid sections of this are just...again I don't know...moves, I guess. No one particularly has control, hope spots are timed weirdly, comebacks aren't really comebacks because it's too back and forth. The Steiner match from the Rumble looked like two guys emulating what they see on TV and failing hard, this looked like guys emulating what they see on TV and actually not making it look like a pile of shit. I think Trip really should have laid his matches out beforehand around this time, they just lacked a real structure. With that said the structure to this got pretty much laid out perfectly when Flair drop Book's leg on the steps. They pretty much pulled off the ideal sequences and all that doodah to make the finishing stretch really good, but it kind of suffered. Wrestling match has an idea, and even if that idea is good, the execution needs to be good for the idea to look good. Like I said it was laid out really well- Trip works the leg with the Indian Deathlock and who knows what else, and Book gets a desperation pin. Trip goes "he has more in the tank!? Fine I'm finishing the fucker off now" and a failed Pedigree leads to a teased ref bump and another flash pin. Booker sells the leg really well and gets a scissor kick for another "holy fuck he's gonna WIN this!!!" pinfall. Problem is that HHH sold like crap. Wobbled shitty and actually fell BACKWARDS when eating the scissor kick. Want to know what's worse than that!? The fucking finish. Booker should have won for sure, it's been said before by everyone and I'm saying it now, but even then if they worked a good finish it wouldn't leave such a crappy taste in my mouth. HHH hits a Pedigree that JR even calls "a desperation move," they both lie on the floor for a dozen seconds, Booker still has the energy to roll himself on his BACK, yet can't kick out when Trip lightly puts his hand on his chest. I forgot where I read this, but someone wrote something somewhere about WrestleMania 19 that really sums it up.....it took three leg drops to beat Mr. McMahon, it took three Rock Bottoms to beat Steve Austin, it took three F-5's to beat Kurt Angle. One Pedigree and YA DONE, BOOK.

v Kevin Nash (Judgment Day) 
- Well fuck me in the mouth this was actually very solid wrestling. It's not something I'd expect anyone to press ctrl+8 more than twice for or anything, but it was actually laid out way better than the other matches I've gone through for this dumbass project of mine.


Me said:


> Wrestling match has an idea, and even if that idea is good, the execution needs to be good for the idea to look good.


 Still suffers from that. Hunter's selling continue to suck. But hey, this actually had a good start; Kev is mad at hid former buddy and just beats the hell out of him all over the place, running him into the post and whatnot. They do them awesome signature wrestling moves like "Heel Tries to Put Face's Face in Turnbuckle and Gets His Own Face in Turnbuckle Instead" and Nash looks better than I thought he would. I mean I was sort of expecting the-Great-Khali-With-Broken-Knee-Caps levels of lumbering, but the lummox proved me wrong. They're still running with Hebner refusing to DQ Trip, and when he gets knocked Trip starts cheating and stuff. Then he pulls out the hammer. Earl be gone, Match be gone. HHH be through a table. I have something more to say about this, but I don't remember what it is. So there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : 1999*

IYH 27 SVDM w Xpac vs Kane & Chyna- **** 1/4*
WM 15 vs Kane- *** 1/2*
IYH 28 BL vs Xpac- ******
No Mercy 99 UK vs Steve Austin vs The Undertaker- : **** 1/2*
Over The Edge 99 vs The Rock- *** 1/2*
Fully Loaded 99 vs The Rock : **** 1/2*
Summerslam 99 vs Steve Austin vs Mankind-: **** 1/2*
Unforgiven 99 Six Pack Challenge- **** 3/4*
Rebellion 99 vs The Rock : **** 1/4*
No Mercy 99 vs Steve Austin : ***** 1/4*
Survivor Series 99 vs Big Show vs The Rock : *****
Armageddon 99 vs Vince Mcmahon : **** 1/4*

1999, while not Triple H's best year, was certainly not too shabby as it marked his transformation from a DX soldier face, to "The Game" that we've been accustomed to for the last 12-13 years. Every match going forward in this year we see him gradually transforming with the completion of this transformation culminating at Armageddon, with the formation of the Mcmahon-Helmsley era. The SVDM tag was a pretty great match, with Xpac playing the key role as the individual who just TAKES A BEATING while we wait for the explosion between Hunter and Chyna, and although that encounter is short lived, it was interesting and added to the dynamic of the match. The Kane match is often criticized for being a horrible match, but I thought it was just a pretty average encounter, with Kane looking like he had some pacing issues out there, but besides that I thought Hunter did a great job of having a decent match with a worker who isn't known for greatness. 

The match at Backlash with X-Pac is FANTASTIC, and I have absolutely NO CLUE why nobody talks about it to this day. It had amazing character development in the story being told, some great moves and methodical offense by Hunter. Even the fucking REST HOLDS added to the psychology of the match, being that Pacs neck was completely fucked and Hunter was basically trying to kill/injure him and put him on the shelf for the rest of his life. The debut of the more VICIOUS side of Hunter, and one of the best X Pac matches that I've ever seen, if not THE best. Anybody who hasn't seen this match should add it to the list of matches they should see next, great.

The two UK matches were pretty good at being what they are ; the No Mercy triple threat was an attitude era type brawl that was all over the place with some cool moments and spots. Sometimes these spots seem a little too set up which takes away a little bit, but you can't help but think some of these things are pretty damn awesome. The Rebellion cage match is one of the weaker entries in the Rock/Hunter series, but it was still pretty good fun with both men trying to escape the entire match with a REALLY REALLY overbooked ending.

The two matches with The Rock in the summer were completely different. The Over the Edge match was PRETTYYY bad by Rock and Hunter's standards together, but a pretty average match nonetheless. Badly placed, but not technically bad or anything. Pre and post match segments definitely add to the match for sure. I love the Fully Loaded strap match, as I believe it's a pretty great, intense encounter with these two just going at it to prove that they belong on top. Some of the shit that happens doesn't really make sense in the match, but for an entertainment perspective this was pure gold. Not the best in the Hunter/Rock series, but pretty damn great nonetheless.

The Summerslam and Survivor Series triple threats were exactly what you'd think they are ; Crazy out of control matches in 1999 during the apex of the attitude era. I thought both were good, but I also thought that the Summerslam match was much better in terms of being more technically sound AND more exciting. I don't think it made any sense to give Mankind the title there, but what the fuck do I know ? It was also much better than NEXT years overrated triple threat main event. The Survivor Series match was about one thing ; Big Show dominating, meaning that Rock and Hunter had to work together to take the big man out of the equation. Great story, some sloppy execution, but overall a satisfyingly good match with an ending that actually made sense.

I may be overrating the SCSA match at No Mercy, but I think it's the textbook example of what an attitude era brawl SHOULD be, and it MIGHT be my WWF MOTY from a very shitty overall 1999. It had all the intensity and storytelling violence that a big time main event brawl should have, and overall just had that big time atmosphere and feel that I get while watching certain matches. Everything clicked here for me, as even though I don't even believe that this is their best match together (3SOH beats this by a mile), I think that it was perfect for what it is, and Triple H's BEST MATCH up to that point (that would stay for a whole few months so it doesn't really matter). Everything just made sense to me, from the finishers to all of the mayhem and chaos outside of the ring, I just thought this brawl was fantastic. EVERYBODY will probably disagree with me, but this is definitely another forgotten fantastic match from Trips's 99 campaign.

The last match of the year is also a forgottenly awesome Trips match from 99 (forgottenly can be a word, can't it ?) between him and Vince that gets EXTREMELY INTENSE at some points. Vince is somewhat sloppy in this one (a given) , and it's EXTREMELY fucking long (30 fucking minutes!) , but I thought the violence was great and it stayed as entertaining as any match that I've ever seen all the way throughout. Definitely one of Vince's best matches, and from a story standpoint was one of the more crucial matches of Triple H's career. Loved the opening tactics of Vince with the powder to the eyes of Hunter too btw.

That about wraps it up for the 90s Trips PPV matches. At this point in his career this was DEFINITELY his best overall year, with him not wrestling a below average match all year. There were some average matches of course, but a majority of these matches were pretty damn great, and he would probably be a top 3 WWF candidate for WOTY in 99 in my books. Wait, this means one thing now that I'm done 99... I GET TO MOVE ON TO 2000... Bring it the fuck on, I can't wait


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

** to Austin/Hunter from No Mercy '99; it was Austin's ******* style vs. Hunter's cerebral style and it didn't mesh well.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Which PPV's from the SilverVision sale are worth getting?

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/DVDs-Under-A-Fiver/page4.html


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Out of them, I personally would only get Backlash and Cyber Sunday. None of the other PPVs, in my opinion, have any stand out matches or anything worth watching.

Edit: Oh shit, you were on about the whole sale? I thought you were only on about the 07 PPVs because you gave a link to that specific page :lmao Nevermind, but I still do recommend those PPVs, especially if you're interested in 2007 PPVs


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Kurt Angle v Rey Mysterio at Summerslam 2002
******

One of the most fast paced matches I have ever seen. Both Angle and Rey were on top form. The spot where Rey jumped over the ref landing on Angle who was outside the ring was incredible. I cant believe this match did not happen at Wrestlemania 22, Orton didnt need to be in, one of the best openers ever.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

WWEDVDNews.com said:


> We have learned that WWE are currently producing a DVD and Blu-Ray set titled: WWE – New World Order.
> 
> The set is on the schedule for release in early November, looking at the New World Order (nWo) and their reign over WCW in the late 1990′s and WWE in the early 2000′s.
> 
> ...


If it is to include a documentary, without Hogan, it wont be the same but I assume they have some archive footage of Hogan talking about the nWo. Interesting project though!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Austin/HHH NM99- ***3/4
Vince/HHH Armageddon 99- *1/2 

Only matches I can really comment on from 99 HHH since these are the only two I remember... actually I watched Vince/HHH like a week or two ago. Hated it, and found myself skipping through the match a little bit. I will give it that it was a violent match. Can't say I found it entertaining at all like Mr. K1ngofK1ngs, but I'll give it that it lived up to AE violence standards.

Austin/HHH was a great match, and one I'd actually never seen until a couple of years ago. I do need to re-watch it but I remember it well enough to give it that rating for now.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Rock/HHH 2000:

*WM16* - ****, This match had everything, with the right finish(Rock going over clean), this match would be much more memorable. 
*RAW April with Jericho and Benoit tag* - ****1/4, people always talking about Austin/HHH/Jericho/Benoit, this is up there if not better.
*Backlash* - ****1/2, No need to explain, one of the greatest spectacles of all time.
*JD* - *****, Classic wrestling match, innovative falls and the crowd was into it the entire match. Along with some awesome spots like Rock doing a Pedigree on the table. Best Ironman of all time. 
*KOTR* - ***3/4, Not even close to their 1-1 for obvious reasons but this was perfect booking. 

They had another great match before KOTR but I can't remember it.

Finally an nWo DVD, I always wanted Hall and Nash DVDs but if this is a documentary, should be great.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

For Rock/HHH 2000 (only their two one-on-one matches):

BL- ****1/2
JD- ****1/4

I used to have it the other way around, but upon my last review a short time ago, it switched. I think what it comes down to for me is the ironman match, while awesome, is still an hour long and does get pretty boring in spots tbh, like any ironman match tbh. The BL match however is just a joy to watch from start to finish and I never really get bored watching it. I would definitely put the Backlash match in HHH's Top 3 and Rock's Top 3 as well I think.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Love the Iron man match. Have seen it like twenty times by now. *****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *WWEDVDNews.com*
> We have learned that WWE are currently producing a DVD and Blu-Ray set titled: WWE – New World Order.
> 
> The set is on the schedule for release in early November, looking at the New World Order (nWo) and their reign over WCW in the late 1990′s and WWE in the early 2000′s.
> ...












Hope they do a good job on that, possibly include some stuff from thr roundtable segment.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ordered WM 27 blu ray from Tesco (£10 for blu ray, £15 for DVD) but whatever i'm not complaining(Y)

going from memory alone i believe *Taker/Trip* was ****** and *Miz/Cena* around ***3/4-****

Also pumped because i FINALLY bought Rise and Fall of ECW :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Ordered WM 27 blu ray from Tesco (£10 for blu ray, £15 for DVD) but whatever i'm not complaining(Y)
> 
> going from memory alone i believe *Taker/Trip* was ****** and *Miz/Cena* around ***3/4-****
> 
> Also pumped because i FINALLY bought Rise and Fall of ECW :mark:


Could have saved a bit on the DVD mate: http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/WrestleMania-27-DVD-3-Discs.html

I finally got the ECW DVD lately too, seems to be out of production now so i had to get a Region 1 copy...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I got the blu ray for £10 so just £1 more, so I'm happy.

I had to get R&F ECW 2nd hand but for £12. it's the cheapest i've seen it online


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Out of them, I personally would only get Backlash and Cyber Sunday. None of the other PPVs, in my opinion, have any stand out matches or anything worth watching.


Thanks


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Thanks


I havn't seen Backlash/Cyber Sunday but Backlash is really good as the matches/main event goes, in terms of 2007, Royal Rumble is also good too IMHO


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh shit yeah, I forgot about The Royal Rumble. Cena/Umaga is excellent despite the, IMO, shit ending.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

07 Rumble could have possibly been one of the best shows in WWE history had they given us good other World Title matches. Lashley v Test, Batista v Kennedy. Batista is the best of those four...doesn't say a lot. Still, the tag opener is awesome, Cena/Umaga is the best WWE match of the past............since it happened, and the Rumble was really good with a really hot Taker/Michaels ending period despite being called the Most Star-Studded Rumble Ever when you had random shitty dudes like that Kevin Vampire guy filling spots.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> I got the blu ray for £10 so just £1 more, so I'm happy.
> 
> I had to get R&F ECW 2nd hand but for £12. it's the cheapest i've seen it online


Im after the Monday Night Wars DVD atm and that seems the same in terms of out of production, may need to use Ebay for a new copy or track down a used one...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-li...?ie=UTF8&qid=1341408839&sr=8-1&condition=used

I trust Zoverstocks, use them most times i visit Amazon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-li...?ie=UTF8&qid=1341408839&sr=8-1&condition=used
> 
> I trust Zoverstocks, use them most times i visit Amazon.


Excellent mate, my brother has had things from there before (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was browsing some WCW videos on EBay and came across this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290726555737

If someone buys that for that they should be sent a straight-jacket along with regardless of how 'rare' the tape is...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : 2000 (part one)*

RR 00 vs Cactus Jack : *******
NWO 00 vs Cactus Jack : ***** 1/2*
WM 2000 vs Big Show vs Mick Foley vs The Rock- : ******
Backlash 00 vs The Rock : ***** 1/4*
Judgment Day 00 vs The Rock- : ***** 1/2*
INX 2000 vs Shane Mcmahon vs The Rock : *** 3/4*
KOTR 00 w Mcmahons vs Rock/Taker/Kane : *** 1/4*

First of all, let's talk about the two Foley matches. The Street fight at the rumble was one of the greatest matches of all time, period. There isn't much to say about it that hasn't already been said, as I believe that this COULD be Triple H's AND Foley's best match, and also the greatest street fight of all time. It was brutal, the atmosphere was electric, and the storytelling and psychology were as deep as any other match that I've ever seen. Couple that with the fact that the match was extremely intense and technically sound and you have a recipe for not just my MOTY for 2000, but one of the greatest matches EVER. The HIAC with Foley was awesome as well, and an all time classic in it's own right. The only problems it really has is that it isn't as good as the first encounter in 2000 between the two (think of it like Punk-Cena at MITB and SS). The storytelling was awesome, the brutality was off the charts, and once again Hunter bumped around the ring like a madman for Foley, making him look amazing in his "retirement match".

The Wrestlemania match is met with alot of criticism for being too overbooked, too sloppy, and unnecessary because it SHOULD have just been HHH vs The Rock like we got at Backlash. I personally LOVE the four way elimination match, as a HUGE chunk of it was just Rock vs HHH anyways, with Show not being in it for long, and Foley being rewarded with a main event slot for his work in the past. I thought it was a perfect example of an out of control match that spills all over the place and is full of mayhem. When I did my rankings of every Wrestlemania main event in history, This match came in at number 10 because I feel that alot of people don't rate this for what it is, and mainly rate it unjustly because they feel the main event of Wrestlemania shouldn't be so overbooked. I loved it, and the surprise of HHH winning made it THAT much better for me.

The two Rock singles matches are fucking awesome as well. The Backlash match between the two is awesome, with Rock putting on one of his best performances that I've ever seen. The back and forth action between the two coupled with the big fight atmosphere and good psychology made this one an instant classic. This is just as good if not BETTER than the HHH/Austin match from a few months prior that used a similar attitude era formula, except this one had more of that huge atmosphere to it. The double rock bottom through the announce table and the return of Stone Cold puts the icing on the cake for this one. The Judgment Day match was FANTASTIC, and in my opinion the GREATEST Ironman match of all time (coming from somebody who watches Rude-Steamboat about a week ago). The way that these two pace this match is amazing, as they work an absolute breathtakingly fast pace the entire time, keeping the entire 60 minutes fun as hell. This is the ANTI-WM 12 match, as it's not boring or dull at all, with tons of limb work being executed by both men, and the logic of weaker-non-finisher moves gaining pins after the match goes on and on being genius. You also have the return of the Undertaker and HHH's cerebral assassin strategy to get Disqualified so he can work on The Rock some more (copied by Kurt-Brock in 03 of course  ) to complete this match. The best Rock-HHH match in my book, and an all time great performance by both men.

The European PPV bout between Shane and HHH and Rock wasn't the best match I've seen out of Hunter, but it was just a fun match between a bumping machine (Shane) , a technical master (Hunter), and an entertainment mastermind (The Rock). It was very fun to see just how The Rock was going to escape this match with his title, with greed overpowering Shane Mcmahon causing what should have been an easy HHH title victory, and turning it into a Rock win. The KOTR match was pretty mediocre for a big time main event, but ONCE AGAIN Hunter's performance isn't to blame as he is the clear MVP of this tag match. The match really lacked in drama, and it seemed like 4 out of the 6 competitors in the match (barring Hunter and Taker) just really didn't care. Shane was pretty awesome at the beginning doing his thing, but the match quicky degenerates downward. Not a BAD match by any means, but definitely the bottom of the barrel for Triple H in the year 2000.

So half the year is over and we have 5 out of 7 matches that are ****+ ? Yeah, it wasn't like this was one of the best years for a performer EVER or anything. Can't wait to watch the Jericho, Angle , and Benoit matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH 2000 PPV matches:

RR: *****
NWO: ****1/4
WM: ***1/2
BL: ****1/2
JD: ****1/4
KOTR: **1/4
FL: ****1/2
SS: ***1/4
Unforgiven: ***
NM: ****
SVS: ***3/4
Armageddon: ****

Definitely one of the best years for a performer in terms of PPV at least. 3 classics, 2 borderline classics, several awesome matches and nothing lower than *** besides the KOTR match... which was hardly because of HHH. He remained consistent with the last half of 2000 in 2001 up until he got injured. Had he not gotten injured, who knows if he would've put on more borderline classic/classic matches and how many more would've happened? All the stars aligned just right for HHH in 2000. He consistently had opponents that were great/he had great chemistry with, HHH himself was at his in ring peak, and he was prominently featured and a very hated heel. Even though Rock was the bigger star and actually had a great year in 2000 as well, HHH can understandably be called the WOTY 2000.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH 2000

RR: **********
NWO: *****
WM: *****
BL: *****
JD: *****
KOTR: **********
FL: *****
SS: *****
Unforgiven: *****
NM: *****
SVS: *****
Armageddon: *****

That's without his various TV matches with Rikishi, Taka, Tazz and The Brooklyn Brawler, all of which are also **********.

8*D


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched the Fully Loaded 2000 Last Man Standing between Hunter and Jericho..... I'm still breathless.

That was one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. The DISSECTION of Jericho's ribs by Hunter, all of the crazy sequences in the middle of the match with Hunter just DESTROYING JERICHO, to Jericho's comeback and subsequent ending of the match. Both men timed the 10 counts absolutely PERFECTLY , with both men barely making it before the 10 for most of the match. The greatest Last Man Standing match of all time by FAR, and in my mind I don't know what to do now. I mean, maybe I'm overreacting because Foley-Hunter is one of the greatest matches ever, but on a first watch I don't think I've ever loved a match more than I love this one. Brutal, intense, and just all around PERFECT in every way. This gets the full ******* from me.

*Obis* , I'll be watching the Survivor Series match vs Austin later and you might have that match rated higher than ANYBODY that I've ever seen. On my first watch I didn't rate it but I DEFINITELY thought it was ***+ material, but most reviews I read claim that the match is shit and is the worst Austin PPV match ever and ONE of Hunter's worst, although I heavily disagree. Your thoughts on the Hunter-Austin series ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH 2000 PPV Matches:

RR: ****3/4
NWO: ****1/4
WM: ****1/4
BL: ****1/2
JD: ****3/4
KOTR: **1/4
FL: ****3/4
SS: **1/2
Unforgiven: ***
NM: ***1/4
SVS: **
Armageddon: ****1/4


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

WM16 is so underrated, the only reason people are talking more about Vince and Shane's involvement and not the match is because Rock didn't win, and I agree but the match was awesome:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Just watched the Fully Loaded 2000 Last Man Standing between Hunter and Jericho..... I'm still breathless.
> 
> That was one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. The DISSECTION of Jericho's ribs by Hunter, all of the crazy sequences in the middle of the match with Hunter just DESTROYING JERICHO, to Jericho's comeback and subsequent ending of the match. Both men timed the 10 counts absolutely PERFECTLY , with both men barely making it before the 10 for most of the match. The greatest Last Man Standing match of all time by FAR, and in my mind I don't know what to do now. I mean, maybe I'm overreacting because Foley-Hunter is one of the greatest matches ever, but on a first watch I don't think I've ever loved a match more than I love this one. Brutal, intense, and just all around PERFECT in every way. This gets the full ******* from me.
> 
> *Obis* , I'll be watching the Survivor Series match vs Austin later and you might have that match rated higher than ANYBODY that I've ever seen. On my first watch I didn't rate it but I DEFINITELY thought it was ***+ material, but most reviews I read claim that the match is shit and is the worst Austin PPV match ever and ONE of Hunter's worst, although I heavily disagree. Your thoughts on the Hunter-Austin series ?


The FL match is awesome. Second best though for me, as I have Cena/Umaga RR as slightly higher.  I remember I actually hadn't seen (or at least remembered) the match until a few years ago when Austin101 gave it the full *****. I gave it a watch and loved it and put it at ****1/2, and have watched it a couple of times since. 

As for Austin/HHH, I might rate it a bit highly but that match is just a lot of fun to watch. It sold the feud perfectly as the two men tried to kill each other, with Austin getting some revenge on HHH from the year prior. The match is just a fun ass brawl and I feel the overall body of work was good. I'd probably need to give it a watch and before my last watch I had it at like **1/2, but for some reason on the last watch earlier this year I just flung it up to ***3/4. I don't think I'd go lower than *** on it.

As for their series, the NM99 match I have in the ***3/4. Need to re-watch though. The NWO01 match I have at ****1/4.

The WM16 match for me is just boring as all hell until Show is eliminated. Then it gradually gets better throughout. It never reached that "classic" level for me, even when it was just Rock and HHH, but it was still great overall.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock/HHH at Mania 16 is awesome. Rock/HHH/Foley was great. I especially loved Foley willing to sell his soul and to work with HHH to get rid of Rock so it would just be down to the two of them. Rock/HHH/Foley/Show was just alright lol.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah, but it was Rock/Foley/HHH/Show for 4 minutes and the match was nearly 40. Even with the 4 way, they had the great clothesline spot with Rock/Foley/HHH against Show.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just finished watching Summerslam '09 again.

Mysterio/Ziggler - ***3/4 (AWESOME opener)
MVP/Swagger - **
Jerishow/Cryme Tyme - **1/2
Kane/Khali - DUD
DX/Legacy - ****
Christian/Regal - DUD 
Orton/Cena - *
Punk/Hardy - ****1/4

Still a really solid show other than some disappointment.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Punk/Hardy SS ****3/4 for me. MOTY 09.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked their steel cage a little more but it's in my top three for the year. (Y)


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Rock316AE said:


> WM16 is so underrated, the only reason people are talking more about Vince and Shane's involvement and not the match is because Rock didn't win, and I agree but the match was awesome:


Not really. The ME is a tad underrated, the Triangle Ladder is good, and the triple threats are a bit disappointing seeing who's on them. This show was VERY cluttered and there was only ONE match with just two people in it (Kat/Terri). Someone has made the point that this Mania feels like a go home RAW show and I couldn't agree more. Some really should have been big WM matches like X Pac/Kane but for whatever reason that didn't happen. Oh and the finish was terrible.


----------



## OldschoolHero (Sep 1, 2008)

Im considering sitting through HBK vs HHH hell in a cell again. I watched it when i was about 14 and was bored to it. Since then I feel I have matured alot more and could enjoy a slower paced match. Whats your guys take on it?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Honestly outside of a great ladder match, solid main event and fun hardcore match, I don't really care for that show. The triple threat could've been so much better than it was.

Edit: Still not a fan of that HIAC. Way too slow for my liking and the last 15 minutes is just finishers, lie down, finishers.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> HHH's cerebral assassin strategy to get Disqualified so he can work on The Rock some more (copied by Kurt-Brock in 03 of course  )


Everyone stole it from Rick Rude.  And I don't blame them because it was awesome and Rude is awesome. Every wrestler should copy his 'stache.

I was re-watching HHH's 2000 stuff around the time I watched the iron man, but didn't see all of it. Still need to check out the three-way with Shane/the Rock plus the Angle match at Unforgiven and other stuff. Everyone should watch the 6/12 Raw match with him and Jericho. Better match than the one where Chris "wins" the Title and one of the five best TV matches that year, I think.

Speaking of that, I watched some Angle recently, and the Survivor Series 2000 match with Taker was really fun. Taker looked GREAT on offense. What's the thought on this match?


Can't say I really like any match from Mania 2000. Want to watch the Benoit/Jericho/Angle stuff and the main event again, though.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Ratings for Triple H 2000 PPV matches:

Royal Rumble ~ *******
No Way Out ~ ***** 1/4*
WrestleMania 16 ~ *****
Backlash ~ ***** 1/2*
Judgment Day ~ ***** 3/4*
KOTR ~ *** 1/4*
Fully Loaded ~ ***** 3/4*
SummerSlam ~ **** 3/4*
Unforgiven ~ *****
No Mercy ~ ***** 1/4*
Survivor Series ~ ** 1/2*
Armageddon ~ *****


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Game was such a BOSS in 2000 and 2001.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally bought the Ric Flair + Four Horseman DVD, really looking forward to that, love the Horseman and the whole history behing them, also tracked down a new cheap copy of WMXX (£6.50 on Amazon), looking for WM19 next...


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

zep81 said:


> I was browsing some WCW videos on EBay and came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're a collector that would be something you would want. I would love to have that tape myself but that's just way out of my price range. I like getting old WCW tapes regardless of how good the show was because they are just so hard to find and I have so many DVD/VHS that it's basically turned into a collection for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TaylorFitz said:


> If you're a collector that would be something you would want. I would love to have that tape myself but that's just way out of my price range. I like getting old WCW tapes regardless of how good the show was because they are just so hard to find and I have so many DVD/VHS that it's basically turned into a collection for me.


Yeah i take your point about the collector part, i used to collect vinyl records and know how expensive they are, but VHS videos suprised me tbh, i still have all of my WWF ones from back in the 90's but only have these WCW ones left over:

SuperBrawl I
SuperBrawl II
SuperBrawl III
Wrestle War 1991
Halloween Havoc 1990
Halloween Havoc 1992
Great American Bash 1991
Great American Bash 1992
Capitol Combat 1990


----------



## Firallon (Feb 25, 2012)

*ELIMINATION CHAMBER 2012*

Elimination Chamber for the WWE Championship
CM Punk (c) vs The Miz vs Chris Jericho vs R-Truth vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston : ***3/4 - Good Elimination Chamber match. Everyone did a good job of putting together some great moves. It was too predictable though, as everyone knew Punk or Jericho was going to win.

WWE Divas Championship
Beth Phoenix (c) vs Tamina : *** - Pretty good for a Divas match.

Elimination Chamber for the World Heavyweight Championship
Daniel Bryan (c) vs Santino vs The Great Khali vs The Big Show vs Wade Barrett vs Cody Rhodes : *** - Started off very slow, but picked up near the end. What hurt this match was the absence of big stars (such as Randy Orton), and the extremely easy to predict winner.

United States Championship
Jack Swagger (c) vs Justin Gabriel : ** - Quick throwaway match that was, for the most part, a waste of time. Nothing special here.

Ambulance Match
John Cena vs Kane : *3/4 - Very boring match. Everyone knew Cena was going to overcome the odds once again. Very disappointing main event.

Overall - 6/10

...................................................................................................................

*EXTREME RULES 2012*

Falls Count Anywhere
Randy Orton vs Kane : ***1/4 - Good opener. Lots of action in the backstage area.

Squash Match
Brodus Clay vs Dolph Ziggler : DUD - Terrible, as are pretty much all squash matches.

Tables Match for the Intercontinental Championship
The Big Show (c) vs Cody Rhodes : **1/2 - Decent, quick match with a good outcome.

2 out of 3 falls Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus (c) vs Daniel Bryan : ***3/4 - Good match with a good pace.

Waste of Time
Ryback vs Jobbers : DUD - Two squashes in one night...

Street Fight for the WWE Championship
CM Punk (c) vs Chris Jericho : **** - Great street fight. One of my favorite spots was when Punk used an announce table cover as a table. Good stuff.

Extreme Rules
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar : ****1/2 - Excellent match that was better than I expected it to be. Very brutal and full of action. Disappointing ending though.

Overall - 8/10


----------



## Firallon (Feb 25, 2012)

*OVER THE LIMIT 2012*

People Power Battle Royal
Christian won by last elimination The Miz : ***1/2 - Good battle royal to open the show. For some reason it started half way in though.

Tag Team Match for the WWE Tag Team Championships
Kofi Kingston & R-Truth (c) vs ZigSwag : *** - Good, basic tag match.

WWE Diva's Championship
Layla (c) vs Beth Phoenix : **1/2 - Once again pretty good for a divas match.

Fatal 4 Way for the World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus (c) vs Alberto Del Rio vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho : ****1/4 - Match of the night by far. Very anticlimactic ending though.

Squash Match
Brodus Clay vs The Miz : ** - Bad, but at least there was a small amount of reason behind this match.

Singles Match for the Intercontinental Championship
Cody Rhodes (c) vs Christian : *** - Good match with the right winner.

Singles Match for the WWE Championship
CM Punk (c) vs Daniel Bryan : * - Extremely boring match. I almost fell asleep watching this. That, the ending and what happened in the following weeks was ridiculous.

Squash
Ryback vs Camacho : DUD - Terrible.

If Cena wins, Big Johnny is fired
John Cena vs Big Johnny : *1/2 - Awful main event. I don't even consider this a match. It wasn't even funny, other than a line Johnny said while at the announcer's table. Couple that with an extremely predictable finish and you get a big o'l pile of garbage.

Overall - 4.5/10


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't have either of this year's Elimination Chambers at ***. **1/2 for Smackdown, **3/4 for RAW iirc, a massive drop off from the ***3/4 RAW got last year and the ****1/2 for Smackdown. Ambulance match was under three too, I think.

Extreme Rules was way better although I only watched the three 'standouts'. Punk/Jericho ***1/2, Bryan/Sheamus ****1/4, and Cena/Lesnar is just unrateable. In a good way.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My current top 10 matches of the year:

10. Christian Vs Cody Rhodes - No Way Out ***3/4
9. Dolph Ziggler Vs Sheamus - No Way Out ***3/4
8. Bobby Roode Vs James Storm - Lockdown ***3/4
7. Bobby Roode Vs AJ Styles - Impact ***3/4
6. Samoa Joe Vs Austin Aries - Slammiversary X ****
5. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena - Extreme Rules ****
4. Daniel Bryan Vs Sheamus - Extreme Rules ****1/4
3. CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - WrestleMania 28 ****1/2
2. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit ****1/2
1. The Undertaker Vs Triple H - Hell in a Cell - WrestleMania 28 ****3/4


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Firallon said:


> *OVER THE LIMIT 2012*
> 
> People Power Battle Royal
> Christian won by last elimination The Miz : ***1/2 - Good battle royal to open the show. For some reason it started half way in though.
> ...


I think you accidentally switched the ratings and reviews for the two marked matches.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Firallon said:


> *OVER THE LIMIT 2012*
> 
> People Power Battle Royal
> Christian won by last elimination The Miz : ***1/2 - Good battle royal to open the show. For some reason it started half way in though.
> ...



:troll


----------



## Firallon (Feb 25, 2012)

RevolverSnake said:


> I think you accidentally switched the ratings and reviews for the two marked matches.





Coolquip said:


> :troll


Nope, not at all. I genuinely almost fell asleep watching it. I was bored out of my mind. So many fucking submissions. It was a chore to sit through.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay, so I'm at KOTR 2002 in my Triple H PPV match project, and I know that going into this match that I'm not expecting much (I had it at like ** 1/4 when I watched it a few years ago), but FUCK the pre match buildup video was one of the best that I've EVER seen. 

I think my favourite version of the Undertaker was at this point in his career, from the Flair feud right up until he turned face after Vengeance 2002. He was fucking AMAZING, one of the true monster heels of our time. he was a legit powerhouse that used to destroy everything in his path, his quote in the pre match video package says it all "Triple H, there's blood in the water, and I am the great white shark". he was just such a cool heel at this point in his career, anybody else notice how awesome he was (character wise, not so sure working-wise) around this time ? Heard some mixed reviews from the Insurexxtion match also, but I'm sure I'll enjoy it, I mean it's HHH and Undertaker


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What did you think of HHH/Angle from No Way Out? I watched it recently and thought Trip put about as good a babyface showing as I've seen from him. I didn't think the match was anything special, but with an opponent I actually give a shit about )) it might have been.

EDIT- been watching some 2001 Angle.....yeah, not my thing. I'd say that was probably his peak and I don't think he was great. Some of it is actually pretty bad or really boring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2000 (part two)*

FL 00 vs Chris Jericho- : *******
Summerslam 00 vs Rock vs Kurt Angle : *****
Unforgiven 00 vs Kurt Angle- : **** 1/2 *
No Mercy 00 vs Chris Benoit- : ***** 1/4*
Survivor Series 00 vs Steve Austin : **** *
Armageddon 00 6 man HIAC : ******

I've already come out and said yesterday that the Fully Loaded match with Jericho is one of my favourite matches of all time, and IMO it's one of the greatest matches (top 10-20) in WWF/WWE history. The psychology, the storytelling, the brutality and the sheer way that everything just seemed to CLICK on one particular night was fantastic. One of the greatest gimmick matches EVER. You want more thoughts on how awesome it is, just go back a few pages, amazing.

I've already reviewed the Summerslam match as well, and my thoughts on it are the same after I've watched it for probably the 10th time ; It's pretty good, but one of the most overrated matches of all time IMO. I've seen people give this match like ***** 1/4* and I just don't see it here. It's like a more exciting version of Hunter-Rock from OTE 99 with Kurt Angle thrown into the mix doing some pretty ridiculous shit as well. I had FUN watching it and like I said, it's pretty good, but Rock marks seem to fucking LOVE this match and I have no idea why.

The Unforgiven match with Angle I thought had some fantastic ribwork and psychology with a half decent pace. They told a pretty consistent story throughout with the whole "ZOMG STEPHANIE" thing that really didn't work out in the end anyways for Hunter, but it does in this match however. This match had it's Angle spots, but it also had enough 2000 HHH goodness for my liking and Hunter was a borderline tweener at this point. I thought Hunter did a FANTASTIC job at getting Angle to wrestle HIS style of match and not go out of HHH's element, which is something that only a more powerful person than Angle can do (See; Stone Cold, Steve Austin). 

The No Mercy match was a fucking classic although I've seen some people give it **** 3/4 which is actually insane (COUGH Brett Mix, COUGH). The idea of the match is simple ; Benoit wrestles like Hunter in the sense that he picks a body part and just goes at it, and Hunter wrestles like Benoit in the sense that he is just technically grinding it out on the mat out-wrestling Benoit. Perhaps it's Hunter's finest PURE WRESTLING match, as I loved every single second of this one. I can DEFINITELY see why some people wouldn't like this, but it's HHH in 2000 putting on a wrestling clinic as a fan favourite over an intense Benoit.

The Survivor Series match wasn't a wrestling match so I didn't rate it as one. It was just one huge brawl all over the arena that didn't really have any direction but I'll be DAMNED if I wasn't entertained ! I bumped this down about a half a star because of the fucking ridiculous ending, but this match I feel exemplifies the reckless style of SCSA that you can either love or hate. Definitely not their best match together, and yet again I can see why people would hate it, but it's just a fun brawl and not much else.

I've already reviewed the HIAC and my thoughts stay the same ; It's a near classic with some great brawling, some big names, a big fight atmosphere, some crazy spots, and it has a typical attitude era style. Just the fact that these 5 superstars (minus Rikishi) are facing off against one another makes this match great. HHH wasn't a focal point of this at all, but I thought it was cool to end off one of the greatest years by a performer in wrestling history, with ANOTHER **** match.

*Yeah1993*, I watched the NWO match with Angle as well as the RR01 match with Angle today (damn I've been watching alot of matches today), and I can tell you that while I have the RR01 match rated slightly higher, Hunter's performance is far better in the NWO match. You can really feel in that match that he NEEDS to win, and I think it's the first time that he really hammers down how to draw the sympathy from the fans with his facial expressions. When you watch the match you're like "how the FUCK will HHH get out of this one ?", and although Angle does some of his typical bullshit (running up the turnbuckle like he's spiderman), the match was pretty great at **** 1/4*. I don't think Angle and Hunter ever wrestled a CLASSIC one on one match, but they always put on some good performances as like I said before, A person with power in the locker room can force Angle to give up his bullshit for the most part.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've never seen that No Mercy '00 match before. Gonna need to give it a look.

The LMS with Jericho, fucking epic.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *Yeah1993*, I watched the NWO match with Angle as well as the RR01 match with Angle today (damn I've been watching alot of matches today), and I can tell you that while I have the RR01 match rated slightly higher, Hunter's performance is far better in the NWO match. You can really feel in that match that he NEEDS to win, and I think it's the first time that he really hammers down how to draw the sympathy from the fans with his facial expressions. When you watch the match you're like "how the FUCK will HHH get out of this one ?", and although Angle does some of his typical bullshit (running up the turnbuckle like he's spiderman), the match was pretty great at **** 1/4*. I don't think Angle and Hunter ever wrestled a CLASSIC one on one match, but they always put on some good performances as like I said before, A person with power in the locker room can force Angle to give up his bullshit for the most part.


I was actually suprised at how good Hunter looked as the Against the World wrestler, for lack of a better term. Kind of wish he just stayed the babyface the whole year, but I've never really dug the Jericho feud. Angle match was definitely the best he looked from his shitty 02-03 period.


The SummerSlam three-way is whatever, but there's a another three-way with the same three guys from the 6/26 Raw or SmackDown (IDR which) that people really, really need to see. Blows the PPV one out of the water.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Brye said:


> Just finished watching Summerslam '09 again.
> 
> Mysterio/Ziggler - ***3/4 (AWESOME opener)
> MVP/Swagger - **
> ...





Vyed said:


> Punk/Hardy SS ****3/4 for me. MOTY 09.


Excellent, excellent match, the best and the most logical TLC match. WWE's MOTY for sure.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm liking these reviews, KingofKings.

I'll do my ratings for Hunter's matches in 2001:

- Royal Rumble (Angle) ~ **** 3/4*
- No Way Out (Austin) ~ *******
- WrestleMania X-Seven ('Taker) ~ **** 1/2*
- Backlash (w/Austin vs. 'Taker and Kane) ~ *** 3/4*
- Judgment Day (Kane) ~ **** 1/4*

Of course, the match where he tore his quad--ordinarily, it's **** 1/2 for me, but due to Hunter's bravado performance, I have it at **** 3/4.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

K1ngofK1ngs' reviews have been excellent so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH 2001 PPV Ratings:

Vs Angle RR - ***1/2 (used to have this at ****1/4)
Vs Austin NWO - ***1/4 (used to have this at ****3/4 lol)
Vs Undertaker WM - **** (used to have this at ****1/4)
w/Austin Vs Undertaker & Kane BL - ****1/4 (imo THE underrated match of the year and probably the most underrated tag match ever. Excellent storytelling with Kane's injured arm being the focal point. Ending was a little clusterfucky though)
Vs Kane JD - ***1/4

and then **** for the tag where he injured his quad.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Know other details have been posted already but heres the synopsis and cover art for Rock/Cena Feud DVD

*In the week leading up to WrestleMania XXVIII, a one-hour documentary aired on NBC Universal in America called ‘Once In A Lifetime: The Rock vs. John Cena’. This DVD collection is an expanded version of that documentary – giving the full one-year story of the build up to this epic match – from the very first promo. It also gives an insight into the preparation of body and mind that these two competitors went through before they met in the ring on April 1 in Miami. Once in A Lifetime explores the iconic Superstars long, emotional paths toward their match, and gives viewers a glimpse into The Rock and John Cena’s daily lives, training regiments, and the personal choices and histories that led them to the defining moment of their careers.*


----------



## Mqwar (Jun 16, 2012)

"long, emotional paths?" 

Is that about John cena's monthly tweets the entire time Rock couldnt make it to raw? lol
Man this gonna be one extremely boring DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao what the fuck are they gonna fill the 3 discs with? Disc 1 will be that documentary thingy. Disc 2 promos and a couple of matches (Maybe WM 27 Cena Vs Miz, then def SS with Cena and Rock teaming up and their WM match against each other) and then uhhh... well... yeah.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

THREE DISCS? :lmao:lmao:lmao

Good god if there's one DVD of WWE's I'll never buy I just found it.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

NearFall said:


> Know other details have been posted already but heres the synopsis and cover art for Rock/Cena Feud DVD
> 
> *In the week leading up to WrestleMania XXVIII, a one-hour documentary aired on NBC Universal in America called ‘Once In A Lifetime: The Rock vs. John Cena’. This DVD collection is an expanded version of that documentary – giving the full one-year story of the build up to this epic match – from the very first promo. It also gives an insight into the preparation of body and mind that these two competitors went through before they met in the ring on April 1 in Miami. Once in A Lifetime explores the iconic Superstars long, emotional paths toward their match, and gives viewers a glimpse into The Rock and John Cena’s daily lives, training regiments, and the personal choices and histories that led them to the defining moment of their careers.*


Looks great. They can do plenty of things with 3 discs. Documentary about the story since 2008, showing their road for the entire year, backstage stories from Rock/Cena/Vince. Off-air segments like Rock/Miz in March, Rock/Cena WM28 match and Rock/Cena vs Miz/Truth. If you saw the video packages before WM, they filmed a LOT of material, should be great.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

KingCal said:


> :lmao what the fuck are they gonna fill the 3 discs with? Disc 1 will be that documentary thingy. Disc 2 promos and a couple of matches (Maybe WM 27 Cena Vs Miz, then def SS with Cena and Rock teaming up and their WM match against each other) and then uhhh... well... yeah.





Brye said:


> THREE DISCS? :lmao:lmao:lmao
> 
> Good god if there's one DVD of WWE's I'll never buy I just found it.





Rock316AE said:


> Looks great. They can do plenty of things with 3 discs. Documentary about the story since 2008, showing their road for the entire year, backstage stories from Rock/Cena/Vince. Off-air segments like Rock/Miz in March, Rock/Cena WM28 match and Rock/Cena vs Miz/Truth. If you saw the video packages before WM, they filmed a LOT of material, should be great.


They can make 3 discs out of it easily really, they have to put effort in though to make sure they cover the right stuff.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Wow. Rock has amazing teeth. GOAT teeth.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NearFall said:


> They can make 3 discs out of it easily really, they have to put effort in though to make sure they cover the right stuff.


After the first disc is taken up with the documentary, that leaves 2 discs for promos and matches. There are only about 4 matches that I could think of that would have ANY relevance to the feud. As for promos, a bunch of them, but I don't see them taking up the rest of the space. Plus 90% of their promos were the same. Rock is never here, Cena is a fruity pebble. If they fill the set, its gonna be filled with some utter shit (aka their feud) .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

They can fill it, but it's not going to make me any more interested. :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

An Austin/Rock one would be nice...


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

My god, I buy every DVD and even I don't want anything to do with that shite.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

KingCal said:


> After the first disc is taken up with the documentary, that leaves 2 discs for promos and matches. There are only about 4 matches that I could think of that would have ANY relevance to the feud. As for promos, a bunch of them, but I don't see them taking up the rest of the space. Plus 90% of their promos were the same. Rock is never here, Cena is a fruity pebble. If they fill the set, its gonna be filled with some utter shit (aka their feud) .


They will leave the entire 3rd disc for the night of wrestlemania and the wrestlemania match probably, which would seem massively stretched. 2 discs is a better bet for quality definatly, but WWE are always hell bent on having 3 or 4 disc sets.




The-Rock-Says said:


> Wow. Rock has amazing teeth. GOAT teeth.


Only noticed now. Holy shit. Hollywood smile :rocky


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I have no real interest in the DVD at all. Rock won, the end.

How they have never brought out an Austin Vs Rock DVD I'll never know. One should of been made years ago.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The-Rock-Says said:


> I have no real interest in the DVD at all. Rock won, the end.
> 
> How they have never brought out an Austin Vs Rock DVD I'll never know. One should of been made years ago.


Damn right, like in the same format as the Bret/HNK rivalry DVD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock/Austin with JR doing the interviews plz.

JR doing interviews for everything plz.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

3 dic set. They have a sit down interview with both talking about their feud and their matches. JR conducts the interview. Then 2nd dic for all their promos together and other stuff. Then 3rd dic showing all the matches they had. I'd buy that DVD in a heart beat.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

NearFall said:


> They can make 3 discs out of it easily really, they have to put effort in though to make sure they cover the right stuff.


Disc 1 - Documentary. 2008 interview, Rock's reactions, all the way to WM and the backstage story behind it. Like they did with the Cena DVD a few years ago, showing him preparing for WM, doing his entrance in the empty stadium etc.

Disc 2 - Matches and the promos. 

Disc 3 - What they showed in the video packages, like Rock telling his story in Hawaii, on movie sets, Cena on the road and off-air segments. 

I will take Rock/Austin DVD over Rock/Cena, no doubt. But it's new material, so it's still great. I'm sure this DVD will be a big seller based on the emotion this program created in the fanbase alone.

2 Rock DVDs every year, sound great to me.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I quite liked the documentary, but not enough to watch a full version and not enough to buy three discs based on their rivalry. 


The-Rock-Says said:


> Wow. Rock has amazing teeth. * GOAT teeth.*


That would be Edge.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Edge has lovely teeth. But sorry, they aren't GOAT teeth.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2001*

RR 01 vs Kurt Angle : **** 1/2*
NWO 01 vs Steve Austin : *******
WM 17 vs Undertaker : ***** *
Backlash 01 w SCSA vs Undertaker/Kane : ******
INSX 01 W/ Steve Austin vs Undertaker : *** 3/4*
JD 01 vs Kane : *****

Triple H starts off the year with his match with Kurt at the Rumble. Now, sure Angle does his traditional Angle bullshit all throughout the match, but Hunter manages to plug him into HIS formula to wrestle a more HHH style match with lots of psychology and things that actually make sense. We get the traditional 2001 Mcmahon overbooked shit , but it doesn't really take away from the match because it has Trish... And Trish was hot as fuck at this point. I wouldn't put it above the UNF 00 match simply because it doesn't have the whole ribwork dynamic that the Unforgiven match had, but it's still a fucking AWESOME match IMO.

I REALLY didn't want to give the NWO 01 3SOH match ***** going into it. I told myself to look for bad things in the match, but guys I honestly can't see any. Sure, it's not a perfect match, but I consider it to be more of a Punk-Cena type match, where when you know the entire story leading into the match and you take in the breathtaking atmosphere and big fight feel, and it contributes heavily to how you feel about it. This match was one of the most intense contests that I've ever seen, that's not just violence driven like the SS 00 encounter. This match is just a thrill ride from start to finish, as Stone Cold bests Hunter at his own game, followed by Hunter besting Steve at his own game, and then in the end Hunter basically getting lucky and stealing one away from Stone Cold due to both men's fatigue at that point in the matchup. Just a big time match with a big time feel that delivered. In my book it's one of the greatest matches in WWF/WWE history, and a top 5 match in the careers of Austin and Hunter (maybe, will see how the rest of this project turns out  ) . 

The Wrestlemania 17 match between Hunter and The Undertaker was a fantastic encounter, and Taker's best mania match up to that point by FAR IMO. It might actually be my highest **** match, as everything just clicked here. The atmosphere was huge, there were some really big moments and spots in the match, and the buildup to these big moments were fantastic. The Last Ride into the sledgehammer shot is one of my all-time favourite moments and it still holds up to this day. I would have liked for Undertaker to kick out of the pedigree as well, but what more can I ask for as this is fucking awesome. 

I expected the Backlash tag between the BOD and the 2-Man Power Trip to be mediocre at best. When I watched it, however I was blown away by how well put together and orchestrated it was. These 4 told an absolutely brilliant story here ; We have Undertaker and Kane who are about unstoppable as anybody at this point, and they just TAKE it to the power trip everytime that the Power Trip tries to gain an upper hand. However, the BOD have a glaring weakness, which is Kane's bad arm that the power trip both use to gain an advantage in the match. Stone Cold and Triple H do an amazing job of selling to the audience as to how powerful the brothers are. I fucking love when in the first 10 minutes or so, Triple H runs into the ring as fast as he can only to be laid out by an Undertaker right hand, it was absolutely perfect timing and HHH's facial expression was brilliant. I don't understand how anybody can hate that match. It's a masterpiece as far as tag team wrestling is concerned. Maybe somebody can enlighten me on this, but I REALLY don't see why so many people hate on the match. It's a GREAT match you fuckers 

The European handicap match is what it is. You have two ring generals working on Taker the entire time until Taker somehow fights them back and gains a victory. It's a pretty great match with some good wrestling and excitement, with Hunter selling like a madman for Undertaker, but the ending really doesn't make any sense to me, as it's just a cheap way to send the fans home happy. 

Another match I thought is underrated is the Chain match between Kane and Hunter. The dynamic of Kane having a chain attached to a broken arm is brilliant, and Hunter using the chair to soften up Kane's arm is a fantastic strategy. Triple H flies all around the ring bumping for Kane, even managing a pretty good bladejob in the process. For such a short match by semi-main event standards, this one was entertaining throughout and their best PPV match (so far, I still have one left). 

It really saddens me that I'm done the pre-quad tear HHH matches, although my favourite version of Hunter would be from 04-06 pre DX, so I'm excited to get to that point. I've already watched all of the 02 matches and I was pleasantly surprised by how good they actually were, including one of the most underrated matches that I've ever seen in my entire life. When I stop being lazy I'll post my thoughts on that, but for now, I'm off to watch the HHH-Steiner series


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wait a Rock/Cena DVD? No thanks.

What I do want is a Rock/Austin DVD like the one Bret/HBK had. Then again, I don't think it would be as good because, at least not to my knowledge, Rock and Austin's rivalry didn't also take place outside the ring.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I certainly hope for another 'Greatest Rivalries' DVD of some kind.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I expected the Backlash tag between the BOD and the 2-Man Power Trip to be mediocre at best. When I watched it, however I was blown away by how well put together and orchestrated it was. These 4 told an absolutely brilliant story here ; We have Undertaker and Kane who are about unstoppable as anybody at this point, and they just TAKE it to the power trip everytime that the Power Trip tries to gain an upper hand. However, the BOD have a glaring weakness, which is Kane's bad arm that the power trip both use to gain an advantage in the match. Stone Cold and Triple H do an amazing job of selling to the audience as to how powerful the brothers are. I fucking love when in the first 10 minutes or so, Triple H runs into the ring as fast as he can only to be laid out by an Undertaker right hand, it was absolutely perfect timing and HHH's facial expression was brilliant. I don't understand how anybody can hate that match. It's a masterpiece as far as tag team wrestling is concerned. Maybe somebody can enlighten me on this, but I REALLY don't see why so many people hate on the match. It's a GREAT match you fuckers


I've been trying to convince a certain few people for YEARS that its a great match. Instead they call me names and tell me that Cena/Orton from SummerSlam 2007 is better. I think I actually had more luck convincing them that Undertaker/Austin from Backlash 2002 isn't horrible (I adore it, they fucking hated it until I got them to watch it again after I reviewed it, and they think slightly more of it. Not much more, but better than nothing  ).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't see what's so bad about Orton/Cena at SummerSlam 2007. It was a solid match with a shit finish. Although worthy enough just for the off-air stuff after the show ended. (Cena took a "If Cena Wins We Riot" sign and invited everyone to actually storm the ring :lol )

And it was mentioned a couple of pages ago, Jericho/HHH at Fully Loaded LMS match. I am about to watch it now and I hope for something good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/Cena was literally the exact same move sequences repeated about 5 or 6 times before they went into a finishing stretch . Their No Way Out 2008 blows absolutely EVERYTHING they did together so far out of the water they're on top of a fecking mountain.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Good Lord what the heck is stopping me from watching this amazing Cena/Orton match from NWO '08? Is is that freaking good? Everytime I go t watch it something comes up or I'm simply just not in a mood to watch a match. Then when I am in a mood I usually watch a shitload of other matches, completing forgetting Cena/Orton. You know what? I'm gonna check this match out now!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Good man. ONE thing you need to remember going into the match, is how adamant Orton was about PINNING John Cena and retaining his title during the build up. From there, the storytelling is simply top notch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Good Lord what the heck is stopping me from watching this amazing Cena/Orton match from NWO '08? Is is that freaking good? Everytime I go t watch it something comes up or I'm simply just not in a mood to watch a match. Then when I am in a mood I usually watch a shitload of other matches, completing forgetting Cena/Orton. You know what? I'm gonna check this match out now!


It is definitely the best of their match series I've seen. Hell in a Cell was also decent as is Wrestlemania 24 if you count that.

Been wanting to check out their Ironman match for a while, it's always in the suggest box on YouTube but I just go for something else. And I watched SummerSlam 2009 the other day and it's not 1 star worthy like Brye thinks, but 2 stars IMO. Overbooked to hell with all the restarts but decent enough action while it goes on.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Orton/Cena was literally the exact same move sequences repeated about 5 or 6 times before they went into a finishing stretch . *Their No Way Out 2008* blows absolutely EVERYTHING they did together so far out of the water they're on top of a fecking mountain.


Rewatched that recently, and it is insane. Best match of their series by far


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

If Rock/Cena dvd is a three disc set, they probably have the content planned for it. They can fill three discs easily but thats not the problem. The problem is if fans are willing to sit through the whole thing.

Personally, I dont think i can especially with john cena's Make a wish BS marketing and his "I am here every week" promos and all that crap, but we dont know what casual fans like, so it could still be a big seller.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> It is definitely the best of their match series I've seen. Hell in a Cell was also decent as is Wrestlemania 24 if you count that.
> 
> Been wanting to check out their Ironman match for a while, it's always in the suggest box on YouTube but I just go for something else. And I watched SummerSlam 2009 the other day and it's not 1 star worthy like Brye thinks, but 2 stars IMO. Overbooked to hell with all the restarts but decent enough action while it goes on.


Eh, I just couldn't get into it and the overbooking killed it for me.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> It is definitely the best of their match series I've seen. Hell in a Cell was also decent as is Wrestlemania 24 if you count that.
> 
> Been wanting to check out their Ironman match for a while, it's always in the suggest box on YouTube but I just go for something else. And I watched SummerSlam 2009 the other day and it's not 1 star worthy like Brye thinks, but 2 stars IMO. Overbooked to hell with all the restarts but decent enough action while it goes on.


Their Iron man match was OK. It was overbooked with spots, but I didn't really mind that. Ortons acting towards the end was hilarious.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2002*

NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle- : **** 1/4*
WM 18 vs Chris Jericho : ******
Backlash 02 vs Hulk Hogan : ** 3/4*
JD 02 vs Chris Jericho : **** 3/4*
KOTR 02 vs Undertaker : ** 3/4*
Insurrexion 02 vs Undertaker- : **** 1/4*
Global Warning vs Lesnar vs The Rock- : **** 1/4*
Summerslam 02 vs Shawn Michaels : *******
Unforgiven 02 vs Rob Van Dam : ******
No Mercy 02 vs Kane : *** 3/4*
Survivor Series 02 Elimination Chamber : ***** 1/2*
Armageddon 02 vs Shawn Michaels : **** 3/4*

Fantastic babyface performance at NWO vs Angle. With Stephanie as the referee, no matter how bad the whole marriage/pregnancy angle was, Hunter did a great job at playing the "me against the world" type character. The fast counts at the beginning of the match added a nice touch, and when Stephanie was taken out of the equation it actually shocked me that Kurt won. Kurt, however was worse than he was in the previous PPV matches against Hunter, going from some good wrestling to super-saiyan Kurt in a matter of seconds. All of that aside, this was a great match with some great face storytelling by Hunter.

The Wrestlemania XVIII match against Jericho is one of the most underrated matches of all time. It gets a bad rep because what, the crowd was spent ? To the people who say that, FUCK YOU. This was the MOTN by far in my books, as the psychology is rock solid, the storytelling is fantastic, and if you wanna talk about the crowd being into it, the pop that Hunter receives when he wins is actually out of this world. We have Jericho going after the injured Quad/leg of Hunter and basically tearing him apart while his ex Stephanie is in his corner. It was a true Wrestlemania moment to see Hunter overcome the odds and get back at both Jericho and Stephanie. It just REALLY pisses me off to see people hate on this match because it followed Rock-Hogan. Hunter and Jericho both brought it 100 percent, and it's the best match these two ever had together besides the amazing Fully Loaded match. The ending of the match and subsequent celebration still gives me chills. I've seen people give this match ** 1/4, and to those people I say this ; Atmosphere is good and adds to a match, but it isn't everything. Fuck you  .

The Backlash match with Hogan is WAAAYYY too long at 22 minutes. Hunter has a pretty well mapped out plan against Hogan to attack the bad knee, but the match is so drawn out and boring that I never cared in the least, and that's saying something as I'm a big Hogan fan as well. Who had the brilliant idea for these two guys to go 22 minutes ? One of Hunter's worst PPV encounters, and it's weird because the match itself isn't all that terrible, but it might be the most boring HHH matches that I've ever seen for the first 18 minutes of the match . Then a whole bunch of crazy shit happens. At the end of the day, this match has a few bright spots but is just mainly BAD.

Already reviewed the HIAC match with Jericho in depth for my Cell project but I'll basically come out and say it like this ; A fantasticly entertaining match with some great spots and some good in ring work, but this shouldn't have been in the cell and the storytelling wasn't all that great. Still, a very very good match between these two but I'll take the Wrestlemania match over this one. Wanna know more, just look at my in depth review 

The KOTR and INSX matches with Undertaker are two completely different matches on the star scale. The KOTR match is a sloppy encounter with no coherence whatsoever. I actually think I could be overrating it because I love Taker and Hunter so much, but what the fuck do I know ? One of the worst PPV matches I've seen out of Hunter as he was just OFF here. Just a poor excuse for a PPV main event, THEY FUCKED UP A ROLL UP! The INSX match is a surprising gem, as it's a back and forth type match with both guys hitting the big moves on one another until Taker finally gives and loses clean to Hunter for I think the only time in WWF/WWE history. The last 5-6 minutes are actually fucking awesome and I encourage any fan of the Taker-HHH series to see it, as it's how a face Hunter vs heel Taker should work. Intense.

The Global Warning triple threat was entertaining as hell, what can I really say about it ? It had some good sequences, some typical Rock bullshit, and Lesnar looked like a damn monster out there. Hunter was really only there to be destroyed and do the job, but he played his role perfectly and neither man really looked weak at the end of this one. A forgotten great match with a great finishing sequence. All 3 men were actually pretty good and entertaining.

The Summerslam match with Michaels is one of the greatest matches of all time in my book. The storytelling is some of the best I've ever seen in my entire life with Hunter just unloading on Shawn's back until Shawn wakes up and remembers just who in the hell he really is and proceeds to just TAKE it to Triple H. I still shake while watching this very emotional match, and Michaels selling and bumping is better than ever, even after being out of the ring for 4 years. Hunter does a brilliant job of playing up that this is his ring now, and that his ring has no place for Shawn Michaels anymore. It's a new game (no pun intended) , and Hunter wants to prove the Shawn that he's the man now. The commentary is amazing with the atmosphere being breathtaking. I can't rate this as anything less than perfect as the psychology was perfect, the storytelling was perfect, the atmosphere was perfect, and the intensity and brutality of this match was PERFECT. Amazing match that I could watch over and over again. The showstopper lives! 

I went in depth about the RVD match at Unforgiven before, and how it's one of the most underrated HHH matches of all time. Basically, I love how the styles clash between RVD's high flying and The Game's cerebral assassin like tactics that he pulls on RVD. The first half of the match is all psychology, with RVD getting inside the Game's head, and the second half is The game grounding RVD and plugging him into HIS formula. I honestly think that Brett Mix is the only other person to give this four stars besides me, but I think this match deserves it.

The No Mercy match with Kane isn't fantastic, but it's still an above average encounter between two workers with less than great chemistry in the ring together. This starts off all over the place and turns into an overbooked piece of madness with Hunter bumping around and taking some pretty sick spots through the announce table and all over the ring for Kane. Yes, I know the storyline was horrendous, but that doesn't take away from this pretty good contest. Definitely not up to HHH standards, but better than alot of matches he would have in the following year.

The inaugural Elimination Chamber was IMO the second best chamber of all time. What this match had going for it was the intensity that takes place in the match, the excitement, and definitely the drama. Going into this match nobody had a clue who was going to win, which compared to this years elimination chambers, is something we can't say far too often. The commentators made it seem like these men were gladiators going to do battle. RVD was a great first spot monkey in the EC, Kane was a great monster that needed teaming up on to be eliminated, Booker and Jericho did a fantastic job of being workers in this match, whilst Hunter and Shawn stole the show once again. The ending minutes are some of the most intense minutes I've seen in a wrestling match, with the pop Shawn receives from the MSG crowd at the ending being one of the loudest I've ever heard. Doesn't hold up well for alot of people after they know who the victor already is, but this is a classic in my book, and once again, the second best EC ever.

The Armageddon match is the match that I think a majority of people will disagree with me on. I can understand why people would hate this match as the psychology is incoherent and kind of fucked, but that's why I never gave it the full four. I LOVE this match and it's a personal favourite of mine as we get two of my all time favourite workers and put them in a match together for that long, add in tons of intensity and a damn good pace (better paced than the cell match IMO), and you have all the makings of a fantastic contest. You can argue that the last fall is kind of fucked, but I loved every second of this and I can watch it over and over again. I just love these Hunter 3SOH matches for some reason, although I heard the one with Orton is pretty bad, but I guess I'll just have to see.

Gonna have most or all of 03 watched tonight, going to try to finish the Goldberg series as quick as possible, not excited at all. This is what I've gathered so far ; The first Steiner match is hilariously awful but entertaining, the No Way Out match is hilariously awful but actually not that bad (if that makes sense), Booker-Hunter is ANOTHER underrated WM match from HHH, Backlash tag is good, Nash series is MEH, and yeah that's all I have about now  Off to watch SS 03, UNF 03, SSeries 03, and ARM 03. 

PS: Cena-Orton Ironman is ***3/4* where I sit. Would have made a good LMS with all the ridiculous shit, but not an Ironman match. The worst of the 7 WWE ironman matches in my book. It's a good watch and certainly not boring, but only watch it once. Actually, I'm glad we never got a Cena-Orton LMS match because that means we wouldn't have gotten the first HHH-Orton LMS match that was fucking awesome


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't think I've seen Jericho/Trips from WM X-8 in years. I think I had it around *** last time I checked but it was ages ago.

I remember those Hogan and Taker matches being disappointing.

Trips/RVD and Trips/HBK from Summerslam. :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

(Following with K1ngofK1ngs)
HHH 2001 PPV: 
vs. Angle RR- ***3/4
vs. Austin NWO- ****1/4
vs. Taker WM17- ****
w/Austin vs. Taker/Kane BL- ***1/2
vs. Kane JD- **1/2

Not quite as impressive for me as even the last 5 months of his 01 run, but still a nice string of matches up until the Kane JD match, which was okay, but nothing I'd remember to watch again in the near future. I actually haven't seen the BL match in forever so I do need to give it a re-watch, but I believe I had it at that rating (***1/2).

HHH 2002 PPVs:
NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle- : **3/4
WM 18 vs Chris Jericho : **3/4
Backlash 02 vs Hulk Hogan : *
JD 02 vs Chris Jericho : ***1/2
KOTR 02 vs Undertaker : 1/2*
Summerslam 02 vs Shawn Michaels : ****1/2
Unforgiven 02 vs Rob Van Dam : ***1/4
No Mercy 02 vs Kane : **1/4
Survivor Series 02 Elimination Chamber : ****1/2
Armageddon 02 vs Shawn Michaels : *3/4

2002 honestly wasn't as bad looking at my ratings on here lined up as I thought. I mean he did have a classic with HBK, but also had a horrible match with HBK. The EC is the best EC to date and HHH was in it the whole time. The Taker match at KOTR was horrible. The match against Angle was forgettable, as was his WM ME with Jericho. His HIAC with Jericho was a great match, though a bit disappointing for a cell match during a time where the majority of cell matches were ****+ around it (Taker/Lesnar, 6-man, Foley/HHH, etc.), but still it was a good way to end an overall mediocre feud. The Hogan match was terrible but it was against Hogan. The RVD match was good at Unforgiven, and the match with Kane was decent from what I remember. 

HHH in 2003... just ran through my ratings. I want to re-watch the Goldberg matches (I think... lol) since those are very fuzzy. I may also re-watch that Steiner RR match after reading Yeah1993's (?) review of it. If it's that hilariously bad to me nowadays, I'll remove it from the DUD category.  But HHH in 03 is the polar opposite of 2000. Rather than having a few mediocre matches in a sea of awesome ones, he has a few good ones in a sea of terrible matches. 2000 the stars were aligned right with all the right opponents at the best time in HHH's career, while 2003 was all the worst opponents possible at a time when he wasn't that good in the ring and incredibly boring. The best I have from in in 03 is WM19 against Booker T.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2002*
> 
> NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle- : **** 1/4*
> *WM 18 vs Chris Jericho *: ******
> ...



I'm sorry but for a match to be in 4*-5* range EVERYTHING from the commentary to the crowd must work for the match. It's my same argument against Punk/Jericho this year at WM, the crowd HAS to be into it because that is part of the match. It's not impossible it's just very difficult. Especially with this GOD AWFUL build up for this match. Read Jericho's second book for more details in that.
Im sure the match would have been better with different card placement, but you can thank Triple H for that.

**


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

That 'Mania X-8 match is one of the most boring matches I've watched. Technically, it is fine, but this isn't Raw. On Unforgiven against RVD, it's a good match with nice spots, but the ending ruins it for me. If they had gotten time to have a proper match, it would have been fine. 3 Stages of Hell against Michaels doesn't have any psychology and it's just doing the rounds until the last spot.

I prefer Hogan match at Backlash to the 'Mania X-8 match. Thought the Hogan match was technically fine. It's just Hunter doing his stuff and Hogan doing nothing, it drags it down.

The reason why Hunter was poor in 2002 is because Hunter had ONE match in the entire calender year that's worthy of remembrance. The rest are just mediocre and mostly terrible.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

To each his own. You make a valid point, it's just sometimes I feel that atmosphere in a match is overrated, but it can certainly add or take away from a match. In my defense I have to say this ; It's a Triple H match and Hunter is my favourite wrestler hands down. I have his damn book that has barely anything to do with wrestling for fuck sakes, so I didn't really need any extra atmosphere going into his big moment/comeback, because I've already created enough atmosphere myself. That's why we see Undertaker fans rating Undertaker matches higher, Rock fans rating Rock matches higher , etc. We build our own anticipation and atmosphere for the matches we TRULY care about.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> To each his own. You make a valid point, it's just sometimes I feel that atmosphere in a match is overrated, but it can certainly add or take away from a match. In my defense I have to say this ; It's a Triple H match and Hunter is my favourite wrestler hands down. I have his damn book that has barely anything to do with wrestling for fuck sakes, so I didn't really need any extra atmosphere going into his big moment/comeback, because I've already created enough atmosphere myself. That's why we see Undertaker fans rating Undertaker matches higher, Rock fans rating Rock matches higher , etc. We build our own anticipation and atmosphere for the matches we TRULY care about.


True, btw I think his greatest moment came on his return to MSG which has imo the LOUDEST pop I ever heard. And this is coming from someone who's not a big HHH fan.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I like Hunter too. He's one of my favorites.

You want a counter-argument? Look at 'Mania 22 against Cena. It's a good enough match but the atmosphere made it. It's one of the greatest WM main events ever and the crowd had as much part in making the match the epic it was.

Atmosphere can make or break a match. On Raw, it's less likely that anybody would focus on the crowd and atmosphere; at 'Mania, it is unacceptable to have a match that people there don't seem to care. Unless the two end up having a straight up classic, it's unlikely that such a match will be remembered fondly.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Coolquip said:


> True, btw I think his greatest moment came on his return to MSG which has imo the LOUDEST pop I ever heard. And this is coming from someone who's not a big HHH fan.


The pop Austin got when he ran in to help Mankind win the title on RAW in 99 is the biggest I've ever heard, but to each his own.

Just re-watched Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio from Extreme Rules 2011. Great match. I remember how nervous I was that Christian was going to lose.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah seeing Christian win the title was one of my favorite moments ever , shame he never got s single title defence over his two reigns but whatever the ship sailed one him a while back to be a constant main eventer.

Think I had the match at ****1/4 and the overall show that night was great iirc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know what ? ... You got me. Rewatched HHH-Jericho from Mania again just to ensure myself of the rating. Still think it's grossly underrated, but I'm moving it back to my original stance of it being a **** 3/4* encounter. Think I overreacted because of the big MOMENT, but still.... It has everything you can ask for in a match besides atmosphere.

Just finished the entire 03 HHH PPV series. 11 matches and THREE are ****+*. That's awesomely horrible. I'm getting to the shit that I love now however, 04-06. Just watched the LMS between HBK and HHH, fantastic stuff. The stars really MIS-aligned for Hunter in 03, but thankfully due to Michaels/Benoit he was able to get his swagger back. SO many good matches from him in that time period, his match against Eugene was awesome. Not exactly the GREATEST in the STARS department (*** 1/2 my last watch) , but one of Hunter's greatest heel performances ever.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH/Eugene rules. If he worked like that his entire career he wouldn't get one quarter the flack he does. I still need to see their cage match.

I might watch some more 2003 HHH today. I've been watching too much good wrestling lately and need some crap to balance it out.  I'm actually not dreading anything except for the HIAC with Nash.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Their SummerSlam match was splendid (Hunter/Eugene).

Triple H does get flack from a select minority though. That minority is the portion of fans that review each and every move in the ring, and argue over why he should have done this over that and so on.

Honestly, when I watch matches these days for most parts--over the past few years, I've found logic redundant in rating matches. It's just how the match makes you feel after it's over. That's the reason I no longer do long reviews for a single match because it really doesn't add much to me.

Anyway, I enjoyed 2003 Triple H over 2002 Triple H. In fact, I enjoyed 2003 Triple H a LOT. The most I've enjoyed Hunter is 1999 - 2001; then the DX stint with Michaels ('97/'98), and 2005, and 2003/Evolution. I lost interest after 2006 though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm a bigger Hunter fan than a lot of others I know, but I wouldn't say the people that give him flack are a select minority. I mean I myself don't even think he's a great worker, but I'm not one who goes out of my way to point out his flaws, say he's not that good and that I could name many, many better (even though I could). That would be Kurt Angle.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2002

NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle- : ***1/2
WM 18 vs Chris Jericho : **1/2
Backlash 02 vs Hulk Hogan : *
JD 02 vs Chris Jericho : ***
KOTR 02 vs Undertaker : DIE
Insurrexion 02 vs Undertaker- : ALSO DIE
Global Warning vs Lesnar vs The Rock- : **3/4
Summerslam 02 vs Shawn Michaels : ***1/4
Unforgiven 02 vs Rob Van Dam : **3/4
No Mercy 02 vs Kane : **1/2
Survivor Series 02 Elimination Chamber : ****
Armageddon 02 vs Shawn Michaels : DIE


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> You know what ? ... You got me. Rewatched HHH-Jericho from Mania again just to ensure myself of the rating. Still think it's grossly underrated, but I'm moving it back to my original stance of it being a **** 3/4* encounter. Think I overreacted because of the big MOMENT, but still.... It has everything you can ask for in a match besides atmosphere.
> 
> Just finished the entire 03 HHH PPV series. 11 matches and THREE are ****+*. That's awesomely horrible. I'm getting to the shit that I love now however, 04-06. Just watched the LMS between HBK and HHH, fantastic stuff. The stars really MIS-aligned for Hunter in 03, but thankfully due to Michaels/Benoit he was able to get his swagger back. SO many good matches from him in that time period, his match against Eugene was awesome. Not exactly the GREATEST in the STARS department (*** 1/2 my last watch) , but one of Hunter's greatest heel performances ever.


I think his MOST underrated has to be against HBK at Taboo Tuesday '04. Again, it doesn't have big moves but the psychology is pretty awesome and Shawn's pain really makes you cringe. Evolution era HHH is my favorite even over McMahon Helmsley HHH, and you can see why in this match. ***3/4 in my book.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this whilst browsing earlier, nice little compilation:

Fantasy concept - Best of WCW PPV Matches 1987-2001 - http://www.wwedvdnews.com/forums/#nabble-td4895641


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Brye said:


> Rock/Austin with JR doing the interviews plz.
> 
> JR doing interviews for everything plz.


Reminds me of this.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

The Rock vs John Cena DVD COULD be a decent watch, mainly for the extended documentary and The Rock's promos. 

Disc 1: The Extended Once In A Lifetime Documentary w/ Extras of both Cena and Rock talking, etc....

Disc 2: The Rock and John Cena vs The Miz and R-Truth
John Cena vs Mark Henry(The Rock sends a message to Cena w/ Rock Bottom)
The Rock vs John Cena- Wrestlemania 28

February 14th 2011- The Rock Returns to Host Wrestlemania
February 21st 2011- Cena Raps and Returns Fire
February 28th 2011- The Rock Electrifies Buffalo
March 7th 2011- Cena returns fire AGAIN
March 14th- The Rock and John Cena have a TALK.

Disc 3:
March 28th 2011- The Rock and John Cena come face to face
April 4th 2011- The Wrestlemania 28 Match Announcement
May 2nd 2011- The Rock and John Cena backstage confrontation
November 14th 2011- The Rock/Cena/Miz/Truth promo
February 27th 2012- The Rock comes to Portland
March 5 2012- The Rock History Lessons and Cena gets Bitched(lol)
March 12, 2012- Cena Rap vs Rock Concert
March 19th 2012- Rock's Philly Promo
March 26 2012- The Rock and Cena's Final Face-Off

Something like this makes the most sense.

Would rather have an Austin vs Rock DVD. It would be the BEST DVD ever lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still sounds shit IMO.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Rock/Cena is going to be a great DVD. I don't think people realize how much material WWE filmed for the entire year. You're going to see a lot of rare footage and that's what I want in their DVDs, not matches.










It was obvious that they're going to do a DVD. No chance they're filming so much just for a 3 minutes video.

+ You got things like that:


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Found this today. Youtube only promo. Its actually quite nice


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd rather they release a set on Taker/HBK/HHH/End of an era than Rock/Cena tbh. The former is one of the best storyline arcs WWE have ever produced and the latter was such a disappointment. I don't want to watch their awful promos with each other back again much less have them on DVD. Fuck that. Agreed that this was a poor choice of set. They could have decided on something a lot better. The rare/backstage footage should be great but thats about it.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

They're releasing a 20-0 DVD Starbuck.










































I know you mean to focus it on just the end of the era though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah, the Streak DVD is a given for a DVD release. They would be stupid not to release that and if I didn't already own 90% of the matches already I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Hell, I might just pick it up when it comes down in price. But Rock/Cena, considering how God awful their actual feud was, isn't worthy of getting a special DVD release imo. It was shit and actually turned me off the match for a stretch of a few weeks because of how terrible it was. They were able to get by on the sole fact that it was actually The Rock vs. John Cena tbh. I have no doubt that the extra footage etc on the set will be great but as for the actual meat of the set? Nah lol.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

NearFall said:


> Found this today. Youtube only promo. Its actually quite nice


Rock did it in July after Cena gave one of his BS promos to a crowd in Australia. But I doubt they're going to put it on the DVD, for the same reason it was never on TV. They don't want to completely destroy the entire Cena character and his slogans.

That was a great special:






They need to do more documentary style shows like that. But more like a UFC countdown.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> Rock/Cena is going to be a great DVD. I don't think people realize how much material WWE filmed for the entire year. You're going to see a lot of rare footage and that's what I want in their DVDs, not matches.


That's where we differ. I'm much more of a match guy and considering I'm not overly big on either guy, I just can't get into it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2003*

RR 03 vs Scott Steiner : *1/2 **
NWO 03 vs Scott Steiner : ** 1/4*
WM 19 vs Booker T : ******
BL 03 W Flair/Jericho vs Nash/Michaels/Booker : *****
JD 03 vs Kevin Nash : ** 1/2*
BB 03 vs Kevin Nash : : **** 1/2*
Insurrexion 03 vs Kevin Nash : *** 3/4*
Summerslam 03 Elimination Chamber : *****
Unforgiven 03 vs Goldberg : *** 1/4*
Survivor Series 03 vs Goldberg : *** 1/4*
ARM 03 vs Goldberg vs Kane : *** 1/2*

This was obviously Hunter's worst year, as he had countless bad matches and only one match that was ****** all year on PPV. The Steiner series is infamous for being one of the worst duo of PPV matches in WWE history, but the thing about these matches are that they're so bad they're actually ENTERTAINING. The first one is one of the most entertaining matches I've ever seen, with Steiner being so slow and incompetent that it's actually awesome. Probably Hunter's worst "Match". The No Way Out encounter isn't actually THAT horrendous as I felt Flair was pretty awesome in it, but it's still very very shitty.

The Wrestlemania match with Booker is fucking amazing. The storyline of Booker being a thug, along with the beautiful leg work and subsequent selling by booker is fantastic. That Indian death lock is legit amazing and I wish Hunter would have used it more as one of his finishers, I feel it would have added to his repetoire of moves that he already had. Seriously, I fucking LOVE that Indian Death Lock. Booker was awesome, and the whole Houston Hangover spot was probably the biggest moment in Booker T's career, barring his world title victory over Rey. Amazing match that gets overshadowed because it's on one of the greatest if not THE greatest card of all time.

The Backlash tag is a great/solid encounter with some good performances mainly coming from Shawn, Booker, Jericho and Flair. Hunter and Big Kev were pretty bad in this one, and it really showed. I also think that match, at 18 minutes long, could have used a bit of time taken off of it. Still though, a fairly great 6 man tag match, it just didn't have that BIG FEEL for me, which is strange because it's fucking HHH!

The three Nash matches are completely different in nature/ The Judgment Day match is a shitty excuse for a brawl, but it isn't entertainingly bad like the Steiner series. Sure it's a better match with some better storytelling, but it doesn't have Steiner utilizing 8 belly-to-bellies while screaming "HEH" over and over again. I've already went on record to say that the HIAC with Nash is a vastly underrated encounter as well, as HHH is pretty awesome in it (once again.. DAT LEG WORK   ) with his great outside the cell counter to the Jacknife that was just plain fucking awesome. I like the TLC match slightly more because of the drama , but we'll see how that holds up in a few days and if it stays at the biased standard that I had it at before. The Insurrexion Street Fight is pretty good also, but not up to the HIAC standard. Once again, in a HHH match in 2003, Ric Flair somehow steals the show again. What exactly is up with that crazy old guy and his blade jobs ? 

The Summerslam match gets shit on alot and for good reason, but I just loved the whole dynamic of Goldberg destroying EVERYBODY, but finally meeting his match when Evolution and the sledgehammer come into play. Granted I'm a HHH mark so obviously I loved that angle, but I understand that it's not for everyone. Once again, Michaels and Jericho stole the show, and along with that BEAUTIFUL Orton cross body (wtf happened to Randy anyways, such a nice dropkick and cross body back in the day), it made for a very ENTERTAINING match. Thank god Nash was barely in it.

The two Goldberg matches I have rated as below average, but for two completely different reasons. The first one is a pretty well wrestled match for Goldberg-2003 HHH standards, but it's just incredibly dull for me. The psychology isn't all that bad, but it was just boring as all fuck. The Survivor Series encounter is actually pretty awesome and probably ****-*** 1/4* material with all of HHH's leg work that was actually pretty exciting... Until Goldberg decides to fucking no sell the broken ankle and goes all Kurt Angle on Evolution, picking up the victory in a very super-saiyan type comeback. If it wasn't for how shitty Goldberg was in this match, it would have rated higher as it wasn't the borefest that the UNF match was.

The triple threat match was what it was ; A cheap way to get the title back on HHH. I thought it was a pretty average big man's triple threat, with there being some pretty good big man power moves and spots, but the action just being in slow motion at some points and the psychology being really shotty. There was lots of flash to the match at points, but the storytelling really wasn't all that consistent. Just average.

So glad to have 2003 Hunter all over with. Moving on to my favourite years of Hunter, 04 and 05, to which I have literally 90 percent of it already rated, I just need to watch like one match and do another write up. So basically, I recommend the Booker T match at Wrestlemania, and it's crazy to say, but the Steiner match at the Royal Rumble. You need to see it to believe it. I gave it half a star just for being hilarious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really wanna see Kevin Nash vs HHH HIAC. Don't know why, mainly because of all the shit it gets. After all, I _did_ watch the Punjabi Prison match between Batista and Great Khali after Brye said it made him doze off, lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH 2003 PPV:

RR 03 vs Scott Steiner : DUD
NWO 03 vs Scott Steiner : 1/2*
WM 19 vs Booker T : ***1/2
JD 03 vs Kevin Nash : 3/4*
BB 03 vs Kevin Nash : : **1/2
Summerslam 03 Elimination Chamber : ***
Unforgiven 03 vs Goldberg : **
Survivor Series 03 vs Goldberg : *3/4
ARM 03 vs Goldberg vs Kane : **1/4

Absolutely horrible year. First off I just watched the HHH/Nash JD match when I made my post on the 2001/2002 PPV matches and wish I didn't waste the time. Steiner/HHH RR is one of the worst matches ever imo, and the NWO match isn't far from being up there itself. The Booker T WM match was a great match, but it was by far HHH's best match, and that's saying something when it 2000 this level of match could be considered disappointing for HHH. The Nash HIAC is a very bad HIAC match, but it's better than expected in terms of it being HHH/Nash. The SS EC is decent enough and a really fun match if you love seeing Goldberg dominate, but Goldberg losing to a sledgehammer shot is weak. Goldberg/HHH Unforgiven is poor, but alright considering it's Goldberg and an "at his worst" HHH. The SS match is a step down for me as a whole. The triple threat Armageddon match was decent enough. Never seen the BL match and honestly, not sure I want to.

Honestly HHH in 2003 might be the worst year for a main eventer in PPVs. Consistently poor matches to the point where a **1/2 star match looks good. I can't say there was anything good about HHH in 2003. Nothing I could personally care about anyway. His mic work was bland and repetitive, his dominance of Raw for the last 7 months of the year made Raw near unwatchable with the state he was in, and to top it all off he was not the performer he once was. He did have a ****+ match with HBK on Raw in December, but that's all I can think of. This year to find something good of HHH is like finding hay in a needle stack. 

He never reached the level he was at in 2000-2001 again imo, but 2004 is the closest we got besides late 2005-early 2006 for promo work/character imo. Hell, I'll put in my 2004 and 2005 ratings right now for HHH:

RR vs. HBK (LMS)- ***3/4
WM vs. Benoit vs. HBK- ****1/2
BL vs. Benoit vs. HBK- ****1/4
BB vs. HBK (HIAC)- ***1/2
Vengeance vs. Benoit- ***1/4
SS vs. Eugene- ***3/4
Unforgiven vs. Orton- **1/2
TT vs. HBK- **
SVS vs. Team Orton- ***

A consistently very good year for PPV matches for HHH. The LMS match was great and honestly I still remember as a kid watching live during the end of the match cheering HBK on to get up before the 10 count... and he did not.  The Triple Threat WM20 match is the best triple threat of all time and one of the best WM main events ever. I'm pretty sure it's number 3 on my list. The Backlash match was almost just as good. The BB HIAC with HBK was great, though long and can get tedious to watch. Overall disappointing considering it's the end of the feud between the two, but still a very good match. The vengeance Benoit match was a good sound match, but forgettable imo. Actually I do need to re-watch it myself, but I remember having it at this rating from the last time I watched it a few years ago. The Eugene match is great fun. Flair was awesome in it. It was also nice to see HHH not the main event of the show for the first time in years.  The Orton Unforgiven match is actually one of HHH and Orton's better matches in the grand scheme of things imo. The Taboo Tuesday HBK match was alright, and the Team Orton/Team HHH match was good, and I do find it fun to watch as I do most SVS elimination matches. Orton getting the win was a good way to have Orton get one-up on HHH, without taking the title before Mania (which I guess was the plan at that point in time).

2004 was a very good year for HHH. His feud and brawls with HBK was awesome, as well as him never being able to overcome Benoit (and Benjamin for a few weeks). I thought he was doing very well for most of 2004, but during his World Title reign it felt like old 2003 HHH for some reason tbh that I was bored by back then. It didn't help that the feud with Orton felt like it hit a giant road block after HHH won the title, which was his main rival during that run, but overall it just felt like the same old WHC Champion HHH shtick that we dealt with pretty much all of 2003. I guess there's a reason I found HHH a lot mroe entertaining from March until September, but meh. Still though it was overall a good year for HHH.

2005:
RR vs. Orton- ***
WM vs. Batista- **
BL vs. Batista- **1/2
Vengeance vs. Batista (HIAC)- ****1/2
TT vs. Flair (cage)- ****
SVS vs. Flair (LMS)- ***1/2

The Orton rumble match had the Orton concussion angle thrown into it, which actually I think helped the match and kept it interesting. HHH ultimately conquering Orton because of it was fine, but Orton was left reeling from it until he turned heel again and faced Taker at WM. The Batista feud was awesome leading up to Mania, but the match wasn't very good. The feud was still great though throughout. The BL match was better, and then the cell match was a classic. Ultimately it was a big put over by HHH for Batista and made Batista the number 1 guy in the company for the better portion of 2005. The Flair cage match was great, and the LMS was good and it was cool to see HHH's sadistic side throughout his feud with Flair again. Let me just say HHH returning in 2005-turning face in 2006 is probably my favorite HHH behind his 2000-2001 run. His promos during the time were great, and I loved seeing him ride solo. Also in the ring he was on fire. I'll actually go through his heel run 06 PPV matches as well just to continue on this:

HHH 2006 PPV matches (heel):

NYR vs. Show- ***1/4
RR match- ***1/2
WM vs. Cena- ***
BL vs. Edge vs. Cena- ****

Overall he was having great matches during his late 05-early 06 heel run. His match against Show with the broken hand dynamic made the match interesting and allowed HHH to beat Show without Show losing face. The RR match, which HHH was in pretty much the whole match was strong throughout. The WM Cena match wasn't all that great imo, but not bad either. Perhaps disappointing for a WM ME, but still a decent match made better by the crowd. The BL triple threat was awesome, and I LOVED the build up to it. I've said it before but the one-liners from HHH during this feud were hilarious, and was a nice way to ease HHH into his face run. This whole build and match all just went damn near perfectly. Besides the segments the handicap match and each of them getting pinfall/submission victories over the other (HHH over Cena, Cena over Edge, and Edge over HHH) was great. The 4 week 3-way feud is probably one of my favorite triple threat builds ups ever, maybe even my favorite. 

Okay, I'm gonna end this post. I just wanted to post up 2003, then I said I would do 2004, and halfway through writing the ratings for that I said I'd do 2005 as well since I remember that year's matches pretty well. Then I went into 06 since they go hand-in-hand with HHH in late 2005 which I loved. So yeah, I'll start following along with K1ngofK1ngs again once he catches up.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

I agree that the Rock/Cena DVD set could suck(mainly because of Cena to me) but I liked pretty much all of The Rock's promos during the WM 27 and 28 buildups, so Im all in for that and I love a good documentary as well(wasnt big on the Once In A Lifetime special though.)

I still think a Rock/Austin or Rock/HHH set would make more sense. If they had to do one for Cena, then Cena/Orton is the only one they could do. HBK/Undertaker could be a good one. HBK/HHH would be great to document both their team ups and their 2 year feud. I would've loved to see an Angle/Austin or even an Angle/Benoit DVD set... man that would've been over 4-5 disc full of great fucking matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I am telling the absolute honest truth when I say I would rather buy a WWE release of "The Best of Viscera" than 3 discs of Cena v Rock. The feud sucked.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm a big fan of that Cell match between Nash and Hunter.




Yeah1993 said:


> I'm a bigger Hunter fan than a lot of others I know, but I wouldn't say the people that give him flack are a select minority. I mean I myself don't even think he's a great worker, but I'm not one who goes out of my way to point out his flaws, say he's not that good and that I could name many, many better (even though I could). That would be Kurt Angle.


I like Kurt Angle from 2000 - 2003. That Angle of 2000 was brilliant. He was having good matches consistent until 2003. From 2004 onwards, except those nights against 'Taker and Michaels, yeah--you know the rest.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2004-2006 Pre DX*

Before I get into these ratings, let me go ahead and say this : You can call me biased because he's my all time favourite, but from the time that Hunter woke the fuck up against Shawn in their DEC 2003 encounter, Hunter was the best in the world all the way until the DX reunion in 2006 when he just decided not to give a single fuck anymore. From Royal Rumble 2004 to Backlash 2006, Hunter wrestled in 20 matches (21 technically but one was a rumble  ). I truly do believe in my heart (and most people probably don't realize that with the exception of a few matches that you disagree with me on, you do as well) , that this was the most CONSISTENT 2 and a half years of Hunter's career character wise. Sure, he had his BEST matches in the year 2000, but out of the 20 matches in this time period, I believe that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is ****+*, one of the most unprecedented PPV match streaks in history. What's really scary about this is that nobody talks about it to this day.

*2004*

RR 04 vs Shawn Michaels : **** 3/4*
WM XX vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : *******
BL 04 vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : ***** 1/2*
BB 04 vs Shawn Michaels : ******
Ven 04 vs Chris Benot : **** 3/4*
SS 04 vs Eugene : **** 3/4*
Unf 04 vs Randy Orton : *****
TT 04 vs Shawn Michaels : **** 3/4*
SS 04 Elimination Tag : ******

Watched the Royal Rumble match for the first time in my life yesterday and I thought it rocked. It had the right mix of intensity and actual technical wrestling to satisfy my thirst. Not even close to being Hunter's best LMS match, but definitely one of the better matches he has ever had with Shawn. The last 5 minutes of this match fucking rocked. The finishers, the blood. This match was EXCITING, but the feeling out process lasted too long for me to give it the full 4.

The Triple Threat series with Shawn and Benoit is simply amazing, and produced 2 all-time classics. The Wrestlemania encounter is IMO the greatest triple threat ever, while the Backlash match is the second greatest triple threat of all time IMO. Everything in the Mania match clicked, the atmosphere was off the charts, the story being told was fantastic, all the big spots were there and best of all it stayed consistent the entire time. One of those matches where everything clicks.. Period. The Backlash match follows a more traditional triple threat formula as it features more of a revolving door of one on one matches that kick ass as well, but it just dosen't have that FLASH of the original IMO, it just feels like something is missing and I'm not sure what.

Everybody knows how I feel about the HIAC with Shawn, as I've reviewed it about 85348534 times now. It's long yes, but I loved the brutality and the storytelling, as well as the rollercoaster pace from fast to slow to fast. It's a thrill ride, and I can understand why some people wouldn't like the whole "finisher, lie around, finisher" routine, but it just built atmosphere for me. Love that fucking match to pieces.

Vengeance match with Benoit was pretty fucking awesome as well. Wouldn't go the whole four because they decided to go with Eugene interfering at the end of the match, which completely threw off the fantastic story these two were telling in the ring up until the climax of the match. Not up to the standards of their No Mercy match of course, but all of the fantastic moves and holds coupled with a simple story makes this match awesome to me.

The match with Eugene is actually one of Hunter's best heel performances. It isn't his best match in terms of snowflakes, but his devious performance is actually astounding, and if you get over the sheer stupidity of the storyline (HHH fighting a retarded guy) , you'll enjoy the match a whole lot more. It's Hunter at his best, as he knows his opponent is inferior to him in intelligence, so he just punks Eugene out for the entire duration of the match. It's heel 101, and anybody aspiring to be a heel in professional wrestling should watch this match. One of Hunter's all time great performances.

A match that probably alot of people will disagree with me on is the UNF 04 match against Randy Orton. I personally thought this was a well, slow paced match with some good holds and some good heel offense by HHH. What holds this match back for me would be Orton's vanilla as fuck face offense consisting of chinlocks and other rest holds. This match still fucking rocks because of Hunter's performance as the man who taught Orton everything he knows, but little does he know that Orton has more than what HHH bargained for. Hunter was such a smug motherfucker in this era.

The Taboo Tuesday match with Shawn is ANOTHER controversial match, and I've already explained why I love it in detail: Triple H's offense is methodical as fuck and I love it, while Shawn's facial expressions in the midst of selling his knee injury is boss. I know it seems like Shawn gets stronger with every manuever that HHH pulls on his knee, but that's what I love about this match ; The whole Adrenaline rush that leads Shawn to have that one big gasp of offense, only for him to be screwed out of the title picture once again. It's DEVIOUS storytelling in this one, and a fine chapter to add to the HBK-HHH rivalry.

The Survivor Series match is one of my favourite SS tags of all time (second, behind next years main event  ) as we get one of Orton's best face performances, as well as a few different dynamics thrown into the mix. Edge, Benoit, Jericho, and Hunter are great as always, but there are more dynamics added to the match as we get a crazed lunatic like Snitsky into the mix with an underdog like Maven. The action in this match as fantastic, and I personally love the stipulation of the match as this is one of my favourite all time eras in wrestling. Holds alot of personal weight for me, and is one of my favourites.

THIS...Is potentially Hunter's best year PPV wise. For me, it comes down to 2000, 2004, and 2005 (which we'll get to tomorrow, because I'm tired as fuck  ). 2004 never had the FIVE ****1/4+ matches that 2000 had, but 2000 also had a few matches from Hunter that were under ***. I'll make up my mind eventually, but for now let's say that 2000 is better simply because it has more all time classics, though 2004 is definitely more consistent.

I'm honestly too lazy...To be continued


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2004-2006 Pre DX*
> 
> Before I get into these ratings, let me go ahead and say this : You can call me biased because he's my all time favourite, but from the time that Hunter woke the fuck up against Shawn in their DEC 2003 encounter, Hunter was the best in the world all the way until the DX reunion in 2006 when he just decided not to give a single fuck anymore. From Royal Rumble 2004 to Backlash 2006, Hunter wrestled in 20 matches (21 technically but one was a rumble  ). I truly do believe in my heart (and most people probably don't realize that with the exception of a few matches that you disagree with me on, you do as well) , that this was the most CONSISTENT 2 and a half years of Hunter's career character wise. Sure, he had his BEST matches in the year 2000, but out of the 20 matches in this time period, I believe that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is ****+*, one of the most unprecedented PPV match streaks in history. What's really scary about this is that nobody talks about it to this day.
> 
> ...


Agree with most EXCEPT for the Unforgiven match. I really dislike this match BUT to each his own. 


A lot of people remember his RAW classic with HBK. However, he had another GREAT match three weeks after Survivor Series with Edge and Benoit. Been a while since I watched but it really a gem.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Brye said:


> That's where we differ. I'm much more of a match guy and considering I'm not overly big on either guy, I just can't get into it.


agree. 

can't even see myself watching it to be honest, let alone buying it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

In response to K1ngofK1ngs (don't want to quote the whole post):

I would definitely put 2004 as HHH's second best year for matches. Pound for pound I'd say 2000 was comfortably better than 2004. 2000 had half a year of consistent classics/borderline classics with the last half a year ranging from good-great-classic matches, while 2004 had a few blemishes for me, with only one classic in the WM triple threat (and a borderline in the BL triple threat). 

As for the character comment, I did touch on this in my last post, but while I wouldn't agree with HHH from 04-06 being his best 2 and a half years, I'd agree that late 2005-early 06 is his best... hell I'd even say it goes back to when his feud with Batista started. That year was his best from a character perspective, and I'd also say from a mic work perspective. 

But that being said, seeing your great write-ups for the year and seeing the ratings makes me want to do this for Undertaker. Now granted, I wouldn't want to start in 1990... I'm scared to see how many Taker matches I'd give under 2 stars.  I'd probably start with the year I started watching WWE, 1998, and go from there. Hell, maybe I'll start with 1997. Don't know, but I'll actually watch these Taker matches right before I do the review, like what you've been doing for HHH K1ngofK1ngs (which I've not been doing )


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Razor King said:


> I like Kurt Angle from 2000 - 2003. That Angle of 2000 was brilliant. He was having good matches consistent until 2003. From 2004 onwards, except those nights against 'Taker and Michaels, yeah--you know the rest.


I think I've said this already, but I've been watching some 00-02 Angle recently, and I've liked some of it, but there's a lot of it that just isn't for me. Still, he looked like a guy who just wasn't experienced enough, and that he'd piece things more together in the future. Some people say he DID get better later on, but that just really isn't for me in the slightest. Unfortunately for me 00-01 was the peak of his career.  



Coolquip said:


> A lot of people remember his RAW classic with HBK. However, he had another GREAT match three weeks after Survivor Series with Edge and Benoit. Been a while since I watched but it really a gem.


You mean the one with 



Spoiler:  finish who hasn't seen it



the pin/tap where the Title was vacated?



if so, yeah, that match is really fun.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Really enjoying the reviews of the HHH matches, so I went ahead and watched Unforgiven 04 vs Orton. Really slow paced match which I got into quite easily. HHH's legwork of Orton was pretty basic but effective, Orton sold it quite well. When Evolution came in it got quite fun and made Orton look strong in defeat. Decent ending with the Pedigree on the chair. Pretty solid match, not a star making performance that it should of been though, I think this match should of probably been a gimmick match. ****1/4*


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

My ratings for Hunter's matches in 2004:

- Royal Rumble (Michaels) ~ *****
- WrestleMania XX (Michaels/Benoit) ~ *******
- Backlash (Michaels-Benoit) ~ ***** 1/4*
- Bad Blood (Michaels) ~ **** 3/4*
- Vengeance (Benoit) ~ *** 3/4*
- SummerSlam (Eugene) ~ **** 1/2*
- Unforgiven (Orton) ~ **** 1/4*
- Taboo Tuesday (Michaels) ~ *****
- Survivor Series (8-men Tag Team match) ~ ***** 1/4*

Apart from these, there are countless TV matches at the range of three and half and four stars. The Iron Man match against Benoit is at **** 1/2* for me and the first match against Benjamin is **** 3/4*. The Triple Threat against Edge and Benoit is also at **** 3/4*, but that match had more to do with Edge and Benoit than Hunter. In terms of matches, 2004 was really awesome for Triple H.




Yeah1993 said:


> I think I've said this already, but I've been watching some 00-02 Angle recently, and I've liked some of it, but there's a lot of it that just isn't for me. Still, he looked like a guy who just wasn't experienced enough, and that he'd piece things more together in the future. Some people say he DID get better later on, but that just really isn't for me in the slightest. Unfortunately for me 00-01 was the peak of his career.


I'd suppose so. I loved his character in 2000, although his matches weren't all that great. For me, 2000 - 2002 would be Angle's peak as a wrestler. From there, he decided that he was the greatest of all time and it just fucked his matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH 04 PPV Ratings:

- Royal Rumble (Michaels) ~ ***
- WrestleMania XX (Michaels/Benoit) ~ ****3/4
- Backlash (Michaels-Benoit) ~ ****
- Bad Blood (Michaels) ~ ***
- Vengeance (Benoit) ~ ***
- SummerSlam (Eugene) ~ ***
- Unforgiven (Orton) ~ **
- Taboo Tuesday (Michaels) ~ **1/4 (haven't seen it in years though, I just remember HBK being legit injured at the time)
- Survivor Series (8-men Tag Team match) ~ Uhhh... who was in this? Genuinely don't remember it at all


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cal, what stops you rating the Mania Triple threat *****? Just curious seeing as it's one of my favourite matches of all time for one reason or another?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nothing in particular that I can really mention, I just didn't feel it as being ***** on last watch (or any watch).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Looking through my collection of DVDs, I just realised I don't have a Ric Flair DVD at all, which should be considered a crime for any wrestling DVD collector, IMO. Any recommendations on which to get?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ultimate Ric Flair collection.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I am telling the absolute honest truth when I say I would rather buy a WWE release of "The Best of Viscera" than 3 discs of Cena v Rock. The feud sucked.


dont lie yeah you were on team bring it


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Triple H in '04:

vs HBK - RR - ***3/4
vs Benoit/HBK - WM - *****
vs Benoit/HBK - Backlash - ****1/2
vs HBK - Bad Blood - ***
vs Benoit - Vengeance - ***3/4
vs Eugene - Summerslam - ***1/4
vs Orton - Unforgiven - ***
vs HBK - Taboo Tues - **3/4
vs Team Orton - ****1/4


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Money In The Bank 2011

SmackDown MITB Ladder Match - *****1/4*
Kelly Kelly v Brie Bella - **1/2*
Mark Henry v Big Show - ***1/2*
Raw MITB Ladder Match - ****3/4*
Christian v Orton - ****1/2*
CM Punk v John Cena - *******

One of the best events of all time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ok, so I went ahead after posting last night (which was actually just really early in the morning ) and watched all of Taker's 1998 PPV matches when I got up.

My Undertaker 1998 PPV Ratings:

vs. HBK Casket Match RR- ****
Taker/HBK Casket Match... probably the best casket match ever. The match overall was great, though the crowd didn't seem extremely into it. I mean they reacted for Taker's offense whenever he got a move in, but then they would go to near silence again. The pacing was up and down, though kept a slower pace for most of the match. DX's involvement was great. I don't really know the whole storyline to well though so maybe someone can explain to me what reason all those guys had for attacking Taker? Were they paid by DX? Did they just not want to have Taker as champion because... well... he's the fucking Undertaker? Regardless in the end they were just foil with Kane, and that moved the Kane/Taker storyline very well, and gave Taker a reason to finally fight his borhter. Like I said, overall it was a great match, and also has the infamous spot which nearly ended Michaels career. Oh, I also love the spot where HBK tries to escape from the casket and Taker is pulling him back in. Classic.

vs. Kane WM14- ****
Taker/Kane WM14 is awesome. First off the whole Taker/Kane storyline to this match is probably the best storyline by WWE ever written. The match for the majority was Taker getting demolished by Kane... getting in shots here and there but never being able to mount an effective offense until the very end. Kane having Taker beat with the chokeslam but then pulling his shoulder off the mat was a great way to show the hate Kane has for Taker and how much he wants to destroy him. The diving clothesline into the table is such a classic spot. Finally Kane kicking out of 2 tombstones is crazy. Besides Michaels at WM26, can't think of any other time 3 tombstones were needed to put Taker's opponent away. The two engaged in an awesome clash that is their best match ever imo. Oh, and Bearer was awesome in this as well. 

vs. Kane Inferno match Unforgiven- ***
The inferno match between Taker and Kane was good and probably the best inferno match... which isn't saying much, but still. Kane dominates much like in the WM match, though Taker in this one seems to go more pound for pound with Kane. When Taker does old school and the flames rise to cover the ring, that always looks fucking sick! I feel the match drags on a bit and I didn't enjoy watching this back as much as the Mania match, but it still was a good watch. 

vs. Mankind HIAC KOTR- ****
Taker/Mankind HIAC... everyone knows this match is insane. I can't even rate it like other matches. This was just a brutal contest that showed the cell being taken to it's limits. Mankind... poor Mankind. Thrown off the cell, thrown through the cell (which was actually not supposed to happen), slammed into thumbtacks and chokeslammed into thumbtacks, and then finally being tombstoned for the 1-2-3. The match is legendary. Even though there are other cell matches that are better, none felt as brutal as this. 

w/Austin vs. Kane/Mankind- ***
The fully loaded tag match wasn't all that great and was pretty boring to me for the first half, though the second half was better. Austin trying to tag Taker in but Taker not reaching in was great and not only played into the conflict between Taker and Austin, but also was good to hint at Taker and Kane being in cahoots. This was a filler match to build up the highway to hell and set the stage for the biggest Summerslam main event in history.

vs. Austin SS- ***1/2
Taker/Austin SS98 was a very good match, though didn't really live up to the expectations considering it was Taker vs. Austin in MSG. It felt like a WM main event but didn't deliver as such. I mean the match wasn't bad, but the bump early on in the match I think hurt the match quite a bit. Taker and Austin don't have the greatest in ring chemistry, but they've had better matches. Still it's a very good match, but didn't live up to the hype. I still enjoy the match a lot though.

vs. Austin vs. Kane Breakdown- ***1/2
Taker vs. Kane vs. Austin... Taker and Kane couldn't pin each other. Hell, they spent most the match dominating Austin together after the first 5 minutes. This was a fight for survival for Austin. He knew he couldn't take on both of them, and tried to fix that problem early, but couldn't keep it up. They just dominate Austin until they turn on each other when the greed of the WWE Title comes into this. I love the storytelling and psychology in this match, and watching Austin get decimated is strangely satisfying. The end where Taker and Kane pin Austin was a great way to have everyone save face, and get the title off of Austin for McMahon. I might be rating it higher than I should, but I feel everything worked well here.

vs. Kane JD- ***1/2
Taker/Kane JD felt like a completely different match from the previous two PPV matches. First off the whole Austin dynamic was interesting. I love how he let the two monsters do what they wanted, and hell, there's even an awesome spot where he tries to give a cable to Taker. lol. But besides that, this match was these two throwing bombs, with some nice leg work by Taker to Kane. The twist at the end is Bearer turns on Kane, Taker turns on Kane and goes heel, and Austin ends up counting both men's shoulders to the mat. But I actually really enjoyed this match. Yeah the crowd went dead for the mid part of it (fuck them ), but it was still a fun watch for me. 

vs. Kane SVS- **1/4
Taker/Kane's worst match on PPV in 98 was definitely their SVS match imo, which wasn't really all that bad, but it felt like an incomplete match... especially after watching longer matches between them already just today. The match overall was just "eh" and it didn't help that this was like the billionth time that year Taker and Kane wrestled each other. Not bad but not good either.

vs. Rock SVS- **1/2
Taker pulls double duty against Rock, and it's bit better than Taker/Kane. I've always thought Taker and Rock had some good chemistry, and you'll be seeing that written from me a lot more when I get to their better PPV matches. Still it's overall a solid match, though I don't like the ending as it makes Taker look like an idiot just tossing Rock into Kane and letting Kane chokeslam the Rock with the ref obviously watching. Still a nice little match between a pairing we don't always see. 

vs. Austin Rock Bottom- **1/2
Taker/Austin Buried Alive... meh, didn't enjoy it in the slightest. I mean I guess it was a nice buried alive match. Nice brawl between the two and Kane ultimately being the one responsible for Taker getting buried is a decent touch since he still hadn't gotten revenge on Taker for JD and SVS. But this match was really difficult to sit through for me. 


So yeah, that's 1998 Undertaker. Overall I'd say a great year. His last 3 PPV matches bring it down as a whole, but he still has three **** matches, as well as several matches in the ***-***1/2 range. Also outside of his in ring work he had some good/memorable promos, had an epic feud with Austin leading to Summerslam, an epic storyline with Kane, and was the second biggest star of the year. The HIAC match with Mankind is legendary, and his casket match and inferno match are the two best matches of those match types. Overall a great year for Taker. Here are the snowflakes again:

vs. HBK RR- ****
vs. Kane WM14- ****
vs. Kane Unforgiven- ***
vs. Mankind KOTR- ****
w/Austin vs. Kane/Mankind- ***
vs. Austin SS- ***1/2
vs. Austin vs. Kane Breakdown- ***1/2
vs. Kane JD- ***1/2
vs. Kane SVS- **1/4
vs. Rock SVS- **1/2
vs. Austin Rock Bottom- **1/2

Looking to 1999... not looking forward to watching that bossman match. The Shamrock match I'm not sure if I've ever seen before. The Over the Edge Austin match I actually just watched recently and will watch it again, but it was nothing spectacular. The Rock match at KOTR is always a fun match for me to watch. The FL First Blood with Austin was one of the better Taker/Austin matches from what I remember so I look forward to that. Finally the tag title SS match I look forward to watching as I remember it being a good one, but not entirely sure. Character wise 1999 may be Taker's best... at least for the first half of it, and same maybe for mic work. But yeah, I'll start watching them later tonight and going into tomorrow. At least the Bossman match is less than 10 minutes I think.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think I've said this already, but I've been watching some 00-02 Angle recently, and I've liked some of it, but there's a lot of it that just isn't for me. Still, he looked like a guy who just wasn't experienced enough, and that he'd piece things more together in the future. Some people say he DID get better later on, but that just really isn't for me in the slightest. Unfortunately for me 00-01 was the peak of his career.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That one indeed, I liked that whole storyline.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahh, the angle with HHH "losing" the title and it getting vacated. Only for HHH to win it back. Totally worth it .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Jericho Steamboat - Backlash 2009 ****** (LOVE this match. All time favourite, easily.) WMXX triple threat is also one of my favourites of all time, also not suuure about *****. Most likely though.

I'm seeing some surprisingly low star ratings for matches between HHH and HBK? I did hear about them apparently not having very good chemistry (which is surprising considering their close relationship) but the only match of theirs I've watched between them one on one was a little deal from RAW in 2003, which I quite liked. An enjoyable match of Triple H's a) in 2003 and b) against Shawn Michaels? Double shock :0


Starbuck said:


> I'd rather they release a set on Taker/HBK/HHH/End of an era than Rock/Cena tbh. The former is one of the best storyline arcs WWE have ever produced and the latter was such a disappointment. I don't want to watch their awful promos with each other back again much less have them on DVD. Fuck that. Agreed that this was a poor choice of set. They could have decided on something a lot better. The rare/backstage footage should be great but thats about it.


Idea: if they got their video production geniuses on the job and did a mini-doc of the history between Taker, HHH and HBK (beginning at the first ever HiaC match) and gave it say, an hour of the narrator/talking heads treatment basically filling it with every interaction the three have ever had; and then filled another disc with matches and sold it at a lesser price...

Oh my god. How hard would you buy. Honestly though it's kind of funny how much that end of an era angle blows everything else from 2012 away.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/HHH have AWFUL chemistry as opponents imo. If I never see any of their matches again as long as I live I'll be perfectly happy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, not really a fan of Michaels/HHH matches in general. I like SummerSlam, and I can remember liking the Raw 12/03 and even the long HIAC a long time ago. Other than that, their singles range from OK (Rumble, Taboo Tuesday) to terrible (3SOH, that shitty boot camp at Tribute to the Troops).

Actually, they have a match on Raw in 1996 that's awesome. Shawn grabs hold of Hunter's nose to keep a headlock on.


Razor King said:


> I'd suppose so. I loved his character in 2000, although his matches weren't all that great. For me, 2000 - 2002 would be Angle's peak as a wrestler. From there, he decided that he was the greatest of all time and it just fucked his matches.


Yeah I like his early character a lot, which also got much worse later on. He was a funny, goofy guy who nobody liked, and it was fun to watch whinge on the mic. "Kurt Angle: Serious Wrestling Machine" had no charm to it.



WCW said:


> dont lie yeah you were on team bring it


I practice raising one eyebrow in the mirror every day and night.


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Looking for the following commercially released VHS in NTSC format at reasonable prices. No bootlegs and tape in good condition. I could care less about slip covers. I'm willing to trade some rare WWF and Indy DVDs in exchange.

WrestleWar 1990
Halloween Havoc 1990
Halloween Havoc 1991
SuperBrawl II
Beach Blast 1992
Great American Bash 1992
Halloween Havoc 1992
SuperBrawl III
Beach Blast 1993
Great American Bash 1995
Fall Brawl 1995
Halloween Havoc 1995
World War 3 1995
Starrcade 1995
Fall Brawl 1996
Slamboree 1997
Great American Bash 1997
Halloween Havoc 1997
Bash at the Beach 1998
Fall Brawl 2000
In Your House #3
International Incident
No Way Out 2000

PM me with any offers.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

In the HBK/Trips series I really like the Summerslam match and the '03 Raw one. I'm actually a big fan of the LMS too. But I fucking hate the HIAC and I'm not a fan of the 3SoH. Didn't remember much of the TT match other than HBK selling his legit injury and it being ok.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2004-2006(Pre DX)*

*2005*

NYR 05 Elimination Chamber : ***** 3/4*
RR 05 vs Randy Orton : **** 1/2*
WM 21 vs Batista : *****
BL 05 vs Batista : **** 3/4*
Ven 05 vs Batista : ***** 3/4*
TT 05 vs Ric Flair : ***** 1/4*
SS 05 vs Ric Flair : ***** 1/4*

NYR 05 Chamber is fucking BO$$ and the best chamber of all time IMO. Everything clicked in this match. From Jericho/Benoit being absolute SEX , to the Edge/HBK scenario, all the way down to the whole Batista/Orton/Hunter triangle. It has all the spots, storytelling, and psychology to make it one of the greatest matches in WWF/WWE history, let alone 05. Hunter's heel performance and how he just lets Batista get pinned is awesome in it's own right. Hunter capturing his 10th world title is probably my favourite moment of all time too, as evidenced by my avatar 

The whole concussion angle they took during the Orton match upped it in value from their Unforgiven match quite a bit. To see Hunter just attack the head like the ruthless bastard that he is, just made this match rock to me. Hunter just picks apart Orton's defense with ease and powers his way to a win. Can you ask for anything else out of Hunter besides a dominant performance at this point ? 

Anybody who knows me will tell you that I'm a huge fan of the HHH-Batista series. The Wrestlemania match definitely wasn't WMME worthy, except for the kick ass HHH entrance and the ending moments, but this match was pretty good on it's own if you give it a seperate watch. The back work by HHH is pretty solid, and the interference by Flair is something in itself. Definitely a carry job by Hunter, but he helped elevate Batista in this feud. I fucking LOVE the Backlash match, and that kick ass storyline that Batista is afraid of the pedigree. Triple H goes for it the entire match, and all of Hunter's offense revolves around hooking the Pedigree. I absolutely love the HHH-Taker WM-17 esque ending to this match as well. The drama in the match was incredibly solid as well. I've reviewed the Batista-cell match at Vengeance about 400 times as well, and my thoughts about that are well known. One of the greatest cell matches ever and Batista's best match IMO. If you want to know anything else, just go look at my in depth review.

The Flair PPV duo to end the year are two entirely different works of mastery. The Steel Cage match is one of the best cage matches of all time. It had a throwback slow pace, reminiscent of Race-Flair, but it was so rich in story that I was on the absolute edge of my seat the entire time I was watching it. The bladejobs are something to behold, and the story that Flair was a weak old man on his last leg was fantastic. The second best old-man Flair match IMO. The BEST old man Flair match IMO, was the Survivor Series LMS match between Flair and Hunter. What a fucking WAR these two engaged in. From the fight through the crowd, all the way down to Hunter's words of STAY DOWN OLD MAN, this match gives me chills. It's more brutal than the cage match, and the storytelling is simple ; Flair can't hang with Hunter, so ALL of his offense is dirty like only Ric Flair can execute. The spots are FANTASTIC, and once again the violence is off the charts. Love how strong both men look coming out of this as well.

at the end of the day, 2005 was a BALLIN' year for Hunter. Although his worst match came at the worst possible time (Wrestlemania Main Event) , it was still a very good match. He Wrestled in FOUR all time classics, and a few great matches on the side. The HIAC and EC matches, as well as the Flair series is required viewing. So watch it, now. Hunter was on FIRE lately, and this momentum would continue through the first months of 2006, where he would wrestle in 3 consecutive **** matches.. Then it all went downhill.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

'05 was an awesome year for Trips in PPV matches.

Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
vs Orton - RR - ***1/4
vs Batista - WM - ***
vs Batista - Backlash - ***1/4
vs Batista - Vengeance - ****1/2
vs Flair - TT - ****1/4
vs Flair - Survivor Series - ****


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Hunter's 2005 PPV Matches Ratings:

- New Year's Revolution (EC) ~ ***** 1/2*
- Royal Rumble (Orton) ~ **** 1/2*
- WrestleMania 21 (Batista) ~ *****
- Backlash (Batista) ~ **** 3/4*
- Vengeance (Batista) ~ ***** 3/4*
- Taboo Tuesday (Flair) ~ ***** 1/2*
- Survivor Series (Flair) ~ ***** 1/4*

I really like the TV matches against Benoit. It's better than their 2004 singles matches. The Gold Rush one isn't high on a star rating ladder, but it's such an amazing match. The Pick your Poison was is another great match. I have it at around *** 3/4. Then the World Title match against Edge was going fine, until the end.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Lol, I love this _Summer of Trips_ in this thread.


----------



## Retro (Jul 8, 2012)

Hey there, guys. I'm contemplating starting up a DVD collection and I really seem to like.. idk, how would you describe "Edge: A Decade of Decadance" genre wise? Documentary or what? I like those kind of DVD's, that have matches as bonus'. So yeah, suggestions please.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH 05:

Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
vs Orton - RR - ** (boring as fuck tbh. could have been so much more with the whole concussion deal, but no, HHH stuck to mainly punches and headlocks and boring shit)
vs Batista - WM - **3/4
vs Batista - Backlash - ***1/4 (if Batista didn't stop selling his back that had been worked on the entire match during the finishing stretch, this would have been **** easily)
vs Batista - Vengeance - ****3/4
vs Flair - TT - ****1/2
vs Flair - Survivor Series - *** (find this to be overrated to hell. has NOTHING on their cage match imo, and hell, they had a way better match on TV in Feb of 06)


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

JoeRulz said:


> Lol, I love this _Summer of Trips_ in this thread.


It's all about the Game and how ya politicize it. :cool2


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Retro said:


> Hey there, guys. I'm contemplating starting up a DVD collection and I really seem to like.. idk, how would you describe "Edge: A Decade of Decadance" genre wise? Documentary or what? I like those kind of DVD's, that have matches as bonus'. So yeah, suggestions please.


Decade of Decadence isn't really a documentary as much as a career retrospective. Every DVD set that's released as an individual tends to be 3 or 4 discs, with the first disc including a full, proper 90 minute doc with all of the relevant people talking about their life and career, with the other discs having matches. If you want Edge's documentary you'd need to buy the second set "You Think You Know Me", otherwise literally all of them have matches included. Most big names have that kind of DVD set out, so it's literally a question of picking a guy and buying his.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Right, I'm going for it. As I only got into wrestling in late 2010, i'm gonna watch everything (RAW/Smackdown/PPV's) from Summerslam '97 through to TLC 2010, rating all PPV matches as I go. 

Just finished watching Badd Blood, and mu god, did that PPV suck up till the main event. I mean, the WWF champion in a 25-min non-title flag match that flat-out sucked, Owen Hart in a average match with Faarooq... The potentiual was there, but the execution was awful. The HIAC sooo made up for it though! Taker's awesome monster performance, HBK overselling everything, and the ending was incredible (as a personal Kane mark of course). 3 months into my project, and the first ***** match!

Ratings for SS, Ground Zero and Badd Blood up later.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haha, yeah, the Bad Blood PPV does suck donkey balls outside of the HIAC match. But any PPV with the GOAT match on it is still a good PPV in my eyes .


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

On the Triple H topic, as good as 2005 was I think it is only his third best year in his career. 

2000 was his best with 2002 being second. 

2002 saw his infamous return, first undisputed title run, feud with Hogan, feud with Michaels (summerslam match was epic) and the whole Raw main event scene at the time was great with the first ever Elimination Chamber. I would say 2002 for HHH was up there with 2005 if not a bit higher.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd say its easily his second best year. His 02 sucked balls. Kayfabe wise he did some good stuff, but his character was dull as fuck and his matches were 99% terrible .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> Lol, I love this _Summer of Trips_ in this thread.


Summer of Trips > Summer of Punk 8*D


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

So last night I watched HHH/Shelton from Raw in March 2004 right after Shelton was drafted to Raw and I loved it. They told a great story with Shelton being the heavy underdog and Trips not really taking him seriously even though Shelton was able to outwrestle him throughout the match. King and JR were brilliant on commentary as well. So yeah, I really liked the match and I'd say it's about ****. What did you guys think of this match?


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Man I can't remember the NYR 05 Chamber match at all. Gonna' have to watch that now.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Trips/Shelton ***3/4. Great TV match, actually Raw main event.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Vyed said:


> Trips/Shelton ***3/4. Great TV match, actually Raw main event.


That's one of my favorite TV matches ever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao at everybody in this thread watching HHH matches lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I haven't watched a HHH match since WM . Don't plan on watching another until SS .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My favorite Trips match ever, not necessarily the best though, is Trips/Hardy from No Mercy '08. Fucking love that match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WWE.com have a list of the 50 greatest Raw matches up. I'm not posting them all but 1-5 are as follows:

#1 John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (April 23, 2007)
#2 Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect: Loser Leaves WWE (Jan. 25, 1993)
#3 Bret Hart vs. The 1-2-3 Kid: WWE Championship Match (July 11, 1994)
#4 Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels: World Heavyweight Championship Match (Dec. 29, 2003)
#5 The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy: Undisputed Championship Ladder Match (June 1, 2002)

Cena barely appeared on the list at all but somehow I knew they'd put something of his at no.1 lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Saw that list. Thought that overall it listed most of the matches that mattered. Order wasn't amazing but wasn't horrible either. Was what I expected from a WWE.com list.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lack of Benoit was expected lol. No Power Trip vs. Chris's from Raw 01 sucks. Orton/Zigs and Punk/Zigs I found rather random too. Glad that Cena/Rey got placed so highly though. I really do fucking love that match and I've only watched it like twice. I hope they put it on a future DVD set.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

How good is Dolph Ziggler? Dude was amazing against Sheamus at No Way Out.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Lack of Benoit was expected lol. No Power Trip vs. Chris's from Raw 01 sucks. Orton/Zigs and Punk/Zigs I found rather random too. Glad that Cena/Rey got placed so highly though. I really do fucking love that match and I've only watched it like twice. I hope they put it on a future DVD set.


Cena/Rey is on the Best of '11 DVD.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ownage™;11710783 said:


> How good is Dolph Ziggler? Dude was amazing against Sheamus at No Way Out.


He's a great bumper and tremendously gifted athletically. I like the energy and pace he brings to his matches. Those tools alone make most of his matches watchable and if you put him in the the ring with someone capable or better they can produce some quality stuff. I'm a fan of his matches with Mysterio, Bryan, Punk, Morrison, Cena, Sheamus, and Kofi. I would love to see him in a ladder match with Punk or Bryan in the future.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> Cena/Rey is on the Best of '11 DVD.


It is? The best matches of 11 dvd or best of Raw/SD dvd?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> It is? The best matches of 11 dvd or best of Raw/SD dvd?


Thar Raw/SD 4-disc one. (Y)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> Thar Raw/SD 4-disc one. (Y)


Hmmmm. Don't know if I want to buy a 4 disc set for 1 match. What else is on it lol?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Hmmmm. Don't know if I want to buy a 4 disc set for 1 match. What else is on it lol?


It's got Miz/Morrison FCA, Orton/Rhodes Street Fight, some of the Rock/Cena stuff, etc.

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-best-of-raw-and-smackdown-2011-dvd-and-blu-ray/19696/


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Can't wait for a best of ziggler dvd in some point in the future.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's still rather pricey but I may pick it up if it goes on sale or something down the line. There's some other stuff on there I wouldn't mind having.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> :lmao at everybody in this thread watching HHH matches lol.


He's making this shit cool again.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> He's making this shit cool again.


And he's doing it for waffle house cooks around the world.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

> This week's Wild Wednesday will be the Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century on Blu-ray for just £7.99!!


(N)


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Been watching a lot of hell in a cell matches and reviewing them. 

Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker No Mercy 2002 - Overrated imo, slow pace and not really as exciting as people make it out to be. pretty brutal though. ***1/2

Hbk vs. HHH Bad Blood 2004 - Saw this live when I was about 8, was abseloutely fantastic on the first watch. However watched it recently again and found it dragged and was just full of brawling; punches, stomps, kicks etc. Quiet boring if i'm honest. **1/2

Hbk vs. The Undertaker Bad Blood 1997 - One word for this match "Amazing". From start to finish this was a classic. You could see the fear in hbk's eyes when taker kicked out of his signature/finishing moves. Great wrestling match, used the cell well and great spot when hbk fell through the announce table. Perfect match and kanes debut made it even better. *****

Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Really enjoyed this match. Bloody war, great spots. ****1/2

Triple H vs Batista - Great match ****3/4

Will be reviewing more soon. your thoughts on these hell in a cell matches?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Wrestlemania XIX in my journey through the year of 2003. Here's my ratings:

Matty Hardy vs Rey Mysterio ***1/2
*A nice fast paced, typical cruiserweight match. Ends a bit too fast but fun while it lasted.

The Undertaker vs A-Train & Big Show *1/2
*What a waste of streak match. Boring, slow and Undertaker has not gotten anything good enough to work against.

Victoria vs Trish Stratus vs Jazz ***1/4
*A decent women's championship match involving three of the best female workers WWE has had. Nice triple threat style match with each wrestler getting a fair amount of offense, making it a consistent back and forth in the traditional triple threat fashion.

Team Angle vs Los Guerreros vs Chris Benoit/Rhyno ***1/2
*A fun tag team match involving some of the best workers in 2003 that happen that have no real direction in terms of storylines. I think Benoit would have been a much better opponent for the Undertaker at this WM but for what he got, he still did all he could. Also liked the finish where Shelton Benjamin took advantage of Chavo getting the Gore and Eddie being busy fighting Rhyno outside.

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho ****1/4
*An excellent match with Mr. Wrestlemania delivering like he always does. Jericho did some great heel work, mocking Shawn's Sweet Chin Music and the kip-up. Both put on a show with a decent crowd behind them and there's lots of nice back and forth action between the two.

HHH vs Booker T ***1/4
*Just an okay match, but the completely dead crowd kind of ruins it. The action is a bit too slow for me and with the crowd being silent for most of it, I just couldn't really get into it. Also Booker T should have won this match. Everything from the racist comments by HHH to the touching video package before the match showing Booker's road to success calls for him to get his moment but for whatever reason, Hunter just _had_ to win.

Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon ***3/4
*A pretty entertaining street fight. Both men are poor in terms of wrestling but with what they got, they manage to deliver a match that entertains the watcher. I'm surprised by how much of the work here was done by Vince. And that legdrop he did on the announce table was awesome. No idea why Roddy Piper turned up halfway through the match, though. Vince keeps destroying Hogan towards the end but then Hogan hulks up, which I found rather epic in this place and does his usual sequence of match ending moves to pin Vince successfully. The crowd was absolutely amazing and really into this match. The reaction Hogan received when he started to hulk up is a mark out moment.

The Rock vs Stone Cold ****1/2
*Another Wrestlemania classic by these two legends. This time The Rock finally gets his win over Austin at the biggest stage of them all. An awesome crowd helps this Attitude Era-style match reach a top level. It isn't better than their WM17 match but it's completely awesome and The Rock wins after three Rock Bottoms. If Austin never wrestles again, I can say that this is a great way to go out with a bang.

Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar ****
*This is probably the most technical wrestling match on the entire card. Brock is solid in this part and Kurt is an excellent technician. A bit slow with some rest-holds in the beginning but starts picking up in the last few minutes. A completely out of energy crowd brings it down a notch, though. Also the Shooting Star Press botch was bad but not enough to ruin the match, specially since Lesnar finished the match just fine by giving Angle a third F5 and pinning him.

Overall Rating: 8/10


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I haven't seen the entire show, but I can't believe you rated HBK/Jericho equal to Hogan/McMahon. That hurts my feelings.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I honestly have HBK/Jericho at *****. And Hogan/Vince at like **1/2. That part where Vince is creeping up over the apron is epic though.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Arnold Tricky said:


> (N)


where's the source? and awesome if true, been looking for this cheap for a while now, Angle/Lesnar in Blu Ray (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> I haven't seen the entire show, but I can't believe you rated HBK/Jericho equal to Hogan/McMahon. That hurts my feelings.





Brye said:


> I honestly have HBK/Jericho at *****. And Hogan/Vince at like **1/2. That part where Vince is creeping up over the apron is epic though.


Eh, I'm not _that_ into the HBK/Jericho match. It's great but I wouldn't give it 5 stars. I do rate it above Hogan/Vince, though. But since I used the same amount of stars I understand the confusion. What really made the Vince/Hogan match for me was the absolutely amazing crowd, only other time during the show they came any close to being this energetic is during the Rock/Austin match, which is unsurprisingly the match of the show for me. Big mistake placing Lesnar/Angle after these two matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ever Wolf said:


> where's the source? and awesome if true, been looking for this cheap for a while now, Angle/Lesnar in Blu Ray (Y)


Silvervision's twitter and facebook .

I already picked it up last time it was on sale (doesn't seem that long ago tbh... bit disappointed something else isn't on offer this week) for Lesnar/Angle mainly too. Watched it a couple of weeks back, still an awesome match.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Love that Austin/Rock match. Such an amazing story. I prefer their WM 17 match, but that one is still brilliant.

Also really like HBK/Y2J, HBK's selling could have been a lot better though iirc.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Brye said:


> *I honestly have HBK/Jericho at ******. And Hogan/Vince at like **1/2. That part where Vince is creeping up over the apron is epic though.


really? that high? 

Its a good match but not a ***** classic imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : 2004-2006 (Pre DX)*

*2006*

NYR 06 vs Big Show : ******
WM 22 vs John Cena : ******
BL 06 vs Edge vs John Cena : ******

NYR 06 vs Big Show is one of the most underrated matches of our time, I mean NOBODY talks about it. Hunter's performance is absolutely amazing in this one, with psychology and storytelling being the name of the game. The way Hunter just picks apart the cast of Big Show, rendering him useless for the rest of the match is awesome. The way Big Show gets in one last gasp of offense before ultimately succumbing to the hammer/pedigree combo. It's just a downright fantastic match that needs to be seen.

The Wrestlemania encounter against John Cena is a very worthy WM main event, and a fantastic match. The way that Hunter goes from full blown heel to a tweener in one night is tremendous. The atmosphere carries this one along with the excitement, slow build up, and great near falls. I watched this live with all of my friends in our local rec center, and when Trips kicked out of the FU, I marked the fuck out and jumped around the room, knocking the power cord out.. When we turned it back on, Trips was tapping out to the STFU... Broken heart aside, I LOVE this match and it will always have a place in my heart as an amazing WM main event.

The Backlash match is just like the mania match in the fact that we have a big match feel and an overwhelming atmosphere to it. It has the perfect three combatants ; A full heel Edge, a full face Cena, and a tweener HHH. Is it just me, or does Edge have all of his best heel performances in 3 way matches (see, Arm 2007) ? Anyways, Cena is clearly the worst of the 3 in this match but still manages to put off a damn good performance. The whole Cena-HHH piss fight over who can beat Edge up the worst is an awesome sequence that can only work with a hot heel at the time like Edge was. What is up with Trips always losing to the Jacknife cover anyways, it kind of makes me laugh how he can NEVER kick out of it..Like...EVER. Lots of great near falls make this match complete. A textbook example of how to do the triple threat match the right way. 

Well, that concludes the end of what I like to call Hunter's best 2 and a half years of PPV matches. Just excellent up and down quality all around here, what a fully developed heel character he was at that point, he was even ballin' as a Tweener. Then they decided to put him back in DX and make him a comedy face along with Shawn, and let's just say his next PPV match doesn't exactly match the previous 20... At all. I don't remember the new DX cranking out ***+ matches on a consistent basis (although there were a few), but it got a little messy. ANYWAYS... Hunter's 2004-Mid 2006 = Better than anybody elses 2 and a half year stretch over the last decade


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Most of Big Show's matches are underrated and i don't know why,he had some great matches with Taker,HHH,Lesnar,Angle..etc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

People who say the Big Show isn't a good wrestler have no idea what they're talking about.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

that wm 19 match was when i realized shawn michaels was a [email protected]


----------



## MSquizzato (Jul 9, 2012)

WCW said:


> that wm 19 match was when i realized shawn michaels was a [email protected]


It took that long? LOL.

I'm just kidding. Shawn Michaels is easily in the top 10 wrestlers ever, period. 

And I HATE the guy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm a Shawn fan and think he was great for parts of his career but it's not as if I couldn't name over 50 better.



WCW said:


> that wm 19 match was when i realized shawn michaels was a [email protected]ot


You'd think the faux-stripteases would do it. 8*D


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Quotes~



Starbuck said:


> :lmao at everybody in this thread watching HHH matches lol.


Again, it's all about the game and how ya play politicize it.




Brye said:


> My favorite Trips match ever, not necessarily the best though, is Trips/Hardy from No Mercy '08. Fucking love that match.


One of my favorites too.




Yeah1993 said:


> People who say the Big Show isn't a good wrestler have no idea what they're talking about.


Very true. You don't need to be a Steamboat to be good.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Random ratingz~:
Angle/Styles vs. Daniels/Kazarian Slammiversary - ***1/2
HBK/Taker WM25 - ****
HBK/Taker WM26 - ****1/2
Benoit/Finlay JD 06 - ***
Cena/Orton/Riley vs. Christian/Truth/Miz Raw 6/20/11 - ***1/2
HHH/Orton/Jericho/Batista/Benoit/Edge Elimination Chamber NYR 05 - ***1/2
HBK/HHH Raw 12/31/03 - ***1/4
HHH/Edge/Hardy ArmAg 08 - ***1/2

Couple of random notes:
- Am I the only one who prefers HHH/Taker End of an Era over both of Taker's WM matches with Shawn? ep
- Concerning the NYR 05 chamber match, Batista's slooooowwwww burn face turn was really brilliant
- Even though I'm not a big Jeff fan, I still mark out seeing him finally win the big one in 08.




KingCal said:


> - Survivor Series (8-men Tag Team match) ~ Uhhh... who was in this? Genuinely don't remember it at all


Team Orton: Orton, Benoit, Jericho, Maven
Team HHH: HHH, Batista, Snitsky, Edge

Winning team's members got to control Raw for the four following weeks.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

*Ranking Takers Wm matches between hbk and HHH*

Taker had excellent streak matches over the past 4 wrestlemanias especially. How would you rank his matches between triple h and hbk in order of how good they were. My order:

1)Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Wrestelmania 28
2)Hbk vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 26
3)Hbk vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25
4)Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 27


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

*Re: Ranking Takers Wm matches between hbk and HHH*

1)Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Wrestelmania 28
2)Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 27
3)Hbk vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 26
3)Hbk vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25


----------



## AlecPure (Feb 5, 2010)

*Re: Ranking Takers Wm matches between hbk and HHH*

the Triple H hell in a cell was a very over rated match. I don't get all the hype over it


----------



## bacardimayne (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Ranking Takers Wm matches between hbk and HHH*

1. HBK vs. Taker - WM 25
2. Triple H vs. Taker - WM 28
3. Triple H vs. Taker - WM 27
4. HBK vs. Taker - WM 26


----------



## Phenom (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Ranking Takers Wm matches between hbk and HHH*

1. HBK vs. Taker - WM 25
2. Triple H vs. Taker - WM 28
3. HBK vs. Taker - WM 26
4. Triple H vs. Taker - WM 27

However, I'd personally put Taker vs Edge and Taker vs Batista above HHH vs Taker @ WM27.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

*Re: Ranking Takers Wm matches between hbk and HHH*

I'd have to go

1. Taker v HHH - WM28
2. Taker v HBK - WM26
3. Taker v HBK - WM25
4. Taker v HHH - WM27

The top three are all ***** as far as I'm concerned..


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/HBK/HHH Series:

25
28
27
26

HB-Kizzle


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1. WM 26 - *****
2. WM 25 - *****
3. WM 28 - ****3/4
4. WM 27 - ****3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

1) WM25
2) WM26
3) WM28
4) WM27

But for the record, I put Taker/Edge, Taker/Batista, and Taker/Orton above the WM28 match, and the first Taker/HHH match, Taker/Flair, and Taker/Kane above the WM27 match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Last 10 Years : Undertaker @ Wrestlemania*

1)WM 25 : *******
2)WM 26 : *******
3)WM 27 : ***** 3/4*
4)WM 28 : ***** 3/4*
5)WM 24 : ***** 1/2*
6)WM 23 : ***** 1/2*
7)WM 21 : ******
8)WM 22 : *** 1/2*
9)WM 20: *** 1/4*
10)WM 19 : ****


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*HBK/HHH/Undertaker WM Matches*:

4. Triple H vs Undertaker WM 27 (4 and a half star)
3. Triple H vs Undertaker WM 28 (5 stars)
2. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker WM 25 (5 stars)
1. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker WM 26 (5 stars)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

If anyone hasn’t noticed we are now a quarter of the way through the decade, therefore since I have nothing better to do im going to rewatch and rate every pay per view of the decade. Then come up with a list of my top 25 matches so far from this decade, and the top 10 pay per views.

*Royal Rumble 2010*

_Ecw Championship : Christian(C) vs Ezekiel Jackson_

This match for me was the real eye-opener of the pay per view; it really exceeded all my expectations. This match followed a very simple dynamic that even the lousiest worker (big zeke) could look like he knew what he was doing. Christian showed how great of a worker he was here, bumping for zeke making him look like an absolute monster. Christian offense was so smart, trying to stick and move from the more powerful zeke, however at times he would really overplay his hand and that’s when zeke would capitalise with his brute strength. Probably the only time in the career of Ezekiel Jackson, that I genuinely believed he looked good in the ring. Without a doubt the best match in his career as far as im concerned, and quite a memorable match in my eyes, not quite a show stealing match but very good in my view.

**** 1/4*

_US Championship : The Miz(C) vs MVP_

This is exactly what I despise about the WWE at this moment, you couldn’t announce this match during the 6 weeks build between TLC and the Rumble? I just have never understood the logic behind impromptu matches, people buy pay per views to see the matches advertised. I understand that no sane person would buy this pay per view for this match however this issue really grinds my gears. The match really however wasn’t that bad, but it was really nothing that they couldn’t do on raw. Miz wins with the sly roll up and then gets a heelish attack after the match by MVP, so the feud continues. 

****

_WWE Championship : Sheamus(C) vs Randy Orton_

Weird match, this followed the heel vs heel dynamic, but it was obvious that the crowd wanted to cheer for randy. I read somewhere that this match was almost designed to keep the crowd quiet with the only really move for them to pop towards was Orton’s DDT, and I somewhat agree. However this match really had some decent limp work and psychology from both men, as randy attacked the legs of Sheamus to neutralize the brogue kick and Sheamus targeted the shoulder of randy. This match was more about furthering the storyline of the breakup of legacy. You can see over the last two years Sheamus and Orton’s chemistry and in ring work has evolved, watching there great Smackdown match about 2 months ago. Not a bad match, but I can definitely see people rating this extremely low, because most of the offense was quiet boring.

*** 1/2*

_WHC Championship : Undertaker(C) vs Rey Mysterio_

I really enjoyed these guys match about 3 weeks early on Smackdown, so I was really excited about this pay per view match. This match really followed the same dynamic as the earlier Christian and Jackson match, I loved how Rey would roll away from taker then deliver swift kicks and move. But just like Christian, Rey would overplay his hand and taker grabs him and threw him straight over the ropes SICK. I remember from there early match that when taker tried for his leg drop, Rey moved and went on the offense. But taker was too smart here, he remembered and faked the leg drop, then placed him between the ropes and executed a nasty leg drop, great storytelling. This is the infamous match where Rey broke takers nose with an asai moonsault of all things, I loved how every time Rey would finally speed things up taker would drop him with a big boot or clothesline. Rey finally executes two 619’s which made the fans believe maybe he could upset taker, but gets caught and eventually falls with the best damn Last ride I have seen. Awesome match, this match was short due to takers knee injury which made me feel what this could have been with 5-10 minutes longer. This really had a taker/HBK vibe from 1997. Obviously though taker goes over, to create the drama of can HBK win to set up the rematch. MOTN without including the rumble obviously.

**** 1/2*

_Royal Rumble_

Before I get to the match I just want to address my main issue with the Rumble these days. The booking of Wrestlemania really hurts the importance of the Royal Rumble. In 2009 we saw the rumble winner lose at Wrestlemania to a rumble loser. I hate that the rumble doesn’t mean nearly as much as it once did. This was also the case at this rumble, Edge eliminated Jericho from the rumble, but when Wrestlemania rolls around, Edge is challenging Jericho for WHC. Apart from Sheamus this year, as long as you’re going to have rumble losers successfully defend their titles against the rumble winners, its painfully clear that the Rumble means nothing to what it did in the past. Also I actually seen a funny picture of this site with Justin Roberts saying, the winner of the royal rumble will go on to the opening match at Wrestlemania. This is indeed so true, wasn’t the whole thing about the rumble that you got a MAIN EVENT title match at Wrestlemania. My point is the Rumble really means nothing these days which is a shame, because it’s really the best match idea they have ever had.

Alright to the match, this really was the CM Punk show, the first of two successive Rumble show stealing performances. Punk was really on fire here throwing out everyone in sight, and delivering some killer promos. This short performance he had before HHH throws him out is definitely one of the most underrated and one of my personal favourites in rumble history. Sadly after punk is gone, all the fun and awesomeness is gone and the next 10-15 minutes really dragged. The rest of the rumble was basically put on HBK’s shoulders, and he definitely picks up the pace throwing everyone out before BAM superkicks HHH out of the ring, mark out moment of the match for me. The whole drama of HBK trying to win the rumble to battle Undertaker one more time at Wrestlemania was awesome, and every time he was thrown over the crowd gasped, he really had the crowd in the palm of his hand. The problem is once HBK was eliminated by Batista the drama was gone and the rest of the match between Edge, Cena and Batista really was quite anticlimactic, not edge’s win but the whole sequence. I really think this could have benefitted if it was Edge and HBK the final two, the drama would have been amazing and the crowd would have been insane with their finishing sequence. I really didn’t however buy into the Edge return, every man and their dog knew that Edge was coming back and probably winning, even half the crowd had edge shirts or signs. The element of surprise was non-existent, unlike the return of Cena two years ago. Overall a great rumble for about 35 minutes, with a much better finish it could have been one of the better rumbles ever, but for now it’s just an above average Rumble. 

**** 3/4*

_Thoughts_

This really was a surprising decent pay per view, it had 2 good pay per view title matches, and an above average rumble. Depending on how attached you are to Edge, would of built up your excitement and overall review of this pay per view. It’s never gonna be remembered for one of the best rumble pay per views ever, but it’s somewhere near the middle. I think you should really check out the rumble for Punks and HBK’s performances and the Undertaker and Rey match. Overall this was a fairly fun show to watch. One pay per view down and about 30 to go.

_Required viewing_

WHC Championship : Undertaker(C) vs Rey Mysterio (**** 1/2)*
Royal Rumble (**** 3/4*)

*Rating: 6.5/10*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Taker/HBK/HHH Series:
> 
> 25 *******
> 28 *******
> ...


Forgot my snowflakes.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

1. Taker/HBK WM25 - *****
2. Taker/HBK WM26 - *****
3. Taker/HHH WM28 - **** 3/4
4. Taker/HHH WM27 - **** 1/2
5. Taker/Batista WM23 - **** 1/2
6. Taker/Edge WM24 - **** 1/2


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Sheamus WHC Title Reign:*

/Bryan ~ ER ~ ****1/2
Fatal Four Way ~ OTL ~ ***3/4
/Ziggler ~ NWO ~ ***3/4
/Orton ~ Smackdown ~ ****


The Micheals matchess completely outclass the HHH matches , especially 27. I think 27 gets a lot of extra credit for being the only stand out match on one of the worst WM of all time.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree that the Michaels matches are better than the HHH matches but they all are awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I've been there live for all of them so they'll always be that extra bit special to me. That Tombstone to Taker and the subsequent kickout (from 27) is something I'll never forget as long as I live. The reaction and atmosphere of those 10-15 seconds were absolutely magical.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

For me its

1) Shawn Michaels v Undertaker WM 25 *****
2) HHH v Undertaker WM 28 *****
3) Shawn Michaels v Undertaker WM 26 ****3/4
4) HHH v Undertaker WM 27 ****1/2
5) HHH v Undertaker WM 17 ****1/4

After reading all the reviews of HHH matches thinking I might go back and watch some of his stuff from 2002, always enjoyed the Mania main event with Jericho because I was a huge mark for HHH back then and marked out like crazy when he won the belt


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

1) Shawn Michaels v Undertaker WM 26 
2) HHH v Undertaker WM 28 
3) HHH v Undertaker WM 27 
4) Shawn Michaels v Undertaker WM 25


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd go

26
28
25
27

That being said they're all amazing, I just happen to absolutely love the WM 26 match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Phil_Mc_90 said:


> For me its
> 
> 1) Shawn Michaels v Undertaker WM 25 *****
> 2) HHH v Undertaker WM 28 *****
> ...


Exactly my choice mate!!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Still can't believe Trips is the only person in history to lose to the same guy 3 times at Mania. He's also the only guy with 3 Mania tap outs too iirc. 

:hhh DAT EGO

Btw, gonna watch some early Cena tonight. I'm going with Angle/Cena, No Mercy 03 and Taker/Cena, Vengeance 03. 

Thoughts?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I remember *Crossface* being a huge fan of Cena/Angle No Mercy 2003, and he's something I'm usually on point with when it comes to liking/hating a match. FWIW I think he had it somewhere between just under four stars and just over four stars, but my memory is pretty poor.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Segunda~! Haven't seen you around in ages.

And I love Cena/Taker from Vengeance '03. Dunno if I've seen the Angle one from No Mercy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have the entire 2003 PPV year at my disposal atm. Lots to choose from lol. Think I might try HBK/Flair from Bad Blood. I can't recall anything about this match tbh. Don't even remember it happening but it's Naitch and Shawn so I'm in.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Watch Taker/Cena Smackdown 6/24/2004. It's amazing how well Taker makes Cena look as a young face then look to well he made him look as a young heel in the Vengeance 03 match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't have that one lol. When I get through with 2003 I'm going to get 2004 from my pal and do the same, just picking out matches at random and giving them a watch. Maybe it will be an extra on one of them or something.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

In terms of enjoyment, i'd say.

25
27
26
17
28


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Watched hbk vs.hhh hell in a cell from bad blood 2004 and must say its slow, dragged and not memorable what so ever. Terrible match imo. ** star


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Still can't believe Trips is the only person in history to lose to the same guy 3 times at Mania. He's also the only guy with 3 Mania tap outs too iirc.
> 
> :hhh DAT EGO
> 
> ...


Watched Angle/Undertaker and Angle/Cena recently. Both are great, but Angle/Cena is the better of the two. Absolutely incredible stuff, and Angle's performance was wonderful too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> and Angle's performance was wonderful too.


Pro Angle fans will want to save this quote for future memory, because aside from maybe 7/8 other matches you're damn sure to never see Cal repeat this sentence again 

Oh shit the tongue smiley returned? Fantastic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey, saying things like that could start an ugly rumour that I don't like TEH GRATEZT OF ALL TEH TIMS Kurt Angle .

Seabs brought the smiley back for me. He loves me. Unlike a certain other admin :side:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For the Taker streak series, I'll rate the matches from 17 onwards.

vs HHH ***1/2
vs Flair ***1/2 (first wrestling match I remember ever watching back in 2002)
vs A-Train & Big Show *1/2
vs Kane **
vs Orton ****1/4
vs Henry **1/2
vs Batista ****1/2
vs Edge ****
vs HBK *****
vs HBK II ****1/4
vs HHH II ****
vs HHH III *****



Starbuck said:


> Still can't believe Trips is the only person in history to lose to the same guy 3 times at Mania. He's also the only guy with 3 Mania tap outs too iirc.
> 
> :hhh DAT EGO
> 
> ...


Doesn't HHH have the most amount of WM losses after Big Show? (he also has 2 victories he could have done without at WM19 and WM25)

And those are two good matches to choose. Although I'm surprised the No Mercy match made it to the WWE Cena 50 greatest matches list since he loses by tapping out, something they don't want to acknowledge.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

vs. HHH - ***1/2
vs. Flair - ***1/4
vs. Show/Train - Refuse to watch
vs. Kane - ** - Just for the spectacle
vs. Orton - ****
vs. Henry - **1/2
vs. Batista - ****1/4
vs. Edge - ****1/2 - MOTY
vs. Shawn - ****3/4
vs. Shawn - ***** - MOTY
vs. Triple H - ****1/4 - 
vs. Triple H - ****3/4 - Needs a second watch


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Doesn't HHH have the most amount of WM losses after Big Show? (he also has 2 victories he could have done without at WM19 and WM25)
> 
> And those are two good matches to choose. Although I'm surprised the No Mercy match made it to the WWE Cena 50 greatest matches list since he loses by tapping out, something they don't want to acknowledge.


He has to win some of his matches or he really would be a Mania jobber lol. Right now he's at 7 Wins and 9 Losses I think. Make him lose another 2 and he would be 5 Wins and 11 Losses including 3 defeats to the same man and 3 main event tap outs. That would just be a stupid record.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> He has to win some of his matches or he really would be a Mania jobber lol. Right now he's at 7 Wins and 9 Losses I think. Make him lose another 2 and he would be 5 Wins and 11 Losses including 3 defeats to the same man and 3 main event tap outs. That would just be a stupid record.


Which is why he didn't need to take on Undertaker two more times than needed. (I'm glad he did just for the matches, though)

But just think if he had also lost at Mania 19 and 25, it would have been 6 WM losses in a row! Kinda weird for someone who's so closely associated with the word "burying".


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Which is why he didn't need to take on Undertaker two more times than needed. (I'm glad he did just for the matches, though)
> 
> But just think if he had also lost at Mania 19 and 25, it would have been 6 WM losses in a row! Kinda weird for someone who's so closely associated with the word "burying".


He buries 364 days of the year and gets buried one day of the year. I think that would be a fair trade off. As for Taker Mania matches since 17:

vs HHH ****
vs Flair ***3/4
vs A-Train & Big Show **
vs Kane **1/4
vs Orton ****1/4
vs Henry *3/4
vs Batista ****1/2
vs Edge ****1/4
vs HBK *****
vs HBK II ****1/2
vs HHH II ***1/2
vs HHH III ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

vs HHH ****1/4
vs Flair ****1/4
vs A-Train & Big Show **3/4
vs Kane **3/4
vs Orton ****1/4
vs Henry **1/4
vs Batista ****1/2
vs Edge ****1/2
vs HBK *****
vs HBK II *****
vs HHH II ****3/4
vs HHH III ****3/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Triple H hasn't needed to win a WM in a good 10 years.


----------



## Hazaq (Apr 25, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Doesn't HHH have the most amount of WM losses after Big Show?


That was until WM 27, Show won WM 28 so his record stands at 8 losses. Right now HHH has the worst record with 9 losses.



Choke2Death said:


> Which is why he didn't need to take on Undertaker two more times than needed. (I'm glad he did just for the matches, though)


He didnt. Those matches were meant to draw money, thats it. without the streak matches from last two wrestlemanias you're looking 800k buys at best, not a million. Dont know why people keep assuming HHH needed to take on the undertaker and then lose just for the fuck of it. 



Brye said:


> Triple H hasn't needed to win a WM in a good 10 years.


Let me rephrase, He didnt need to stay a heel for four long years and put over guys every Mania. He could have turned face lot sooner and won his mania matches if he cared like the Undertaker.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*No Way Out 2012*
Sheamus v Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4
Tuxedo Match - DUD
Christian v Cody Rhodes - ***1/2
Tag Team 4 Way - **
Layla v Beth Phoenix - *1/4
Hunico v Sin Cara - *1/2
CM Punk v Daniel Bryan v Kane - ***1/2
Ryback v Jobbers - DUD
Big Show v John Cena - **1/2

-- The opener was really great. I can see this becoming a forgotten gem in the future because it's not a classic, it's not as good as Sheamus' true breakthrough match against Bryan, and it's not exactly a defining match for Ziggler either, but it's fucking good. Fantastic performance from Ziggler. Best worker in the company right now behind Bryan and Punk imo.

-- Christian/Cody was also really good. You can't go wrong with face Christian in the ring. Come to think of it he might be my number 3 pushing Dolph down to 4. Cody was on point here too. Lots of neat stuff throughout capped by a sweet finishing stretch.

-- Tyson Kidd should be holding a mid-card title and having great singles matches on PPV. Dude's wasted in that tag team. Match was okay. The AW swerve was well done. Rosa's hot.

-- Layla/Beth didn't totally suck but their previous match was much better.

-- Is weird lighting during his matches supposed to get Sin Cara over? I don't care about him at all.

-- Punk/Bryan/Kane was fun with lots of good action. The thing is the triple threat formula is so played out that it's hard to go beyond that level of "really good" unless you have a special character dynamic or story going on (Cena/HBK/HHH for example). Maybe they should try more elimination style three ways. Anyways, this was good apart from Bryan disappearing a couple of times. I've been a big supporter of Punk's reign and I'm glad they've let him hold the belt this long but surely they need to pull the trigger on Bryan in the coming months.

-- Solid main event. Could've shaved a few minutes off the slow start but overall it was well executed. Shame Cena and Show have never been able to replicate or surpass that really good TV match they had a few years ago (on Smackdown I think). 

I plan on re-watching everything in my top 10 at the end of the year but right now it looks like this:

1. Undertaker v Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****1/4)
2. Brock Lesnar v John Cena - Extreme Rules (****1/4)
3. CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit (****1/4)
4. Sheamus v Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules (****)
5. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****)
6. Sheamus v Dolph Ziggler - No Way Out (***3/4)
7. Raw Elimination Chamber - Elimination Chamber (***3/4)
8. CM Punk v Mark Henry - Raw 4/2/12 (***1/2)
9. CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - Raw 1/30/12 (***1/2)
10. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Extreme Rules (***1/2)


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Decided to watch some of 94's better matches today:

*Steiners vs. Bret and Owen - Wrestlefest - ****1/2*

Would've been ***** except the finish was lackluster and Owen's quick recovery from the screwdriver was just jarring. Still the best WWF tag match of the era.

*Bret vs. Backlund - Superstars - ****1/4*

Great tv match. I'm racking my brain trying to think of better tv matches from '94 and only the classic between Bret and Waltman comes to mind. I remember watching this as a kid and going insane when Backlund attacked Bret after the match after Bret tried to shake his hand. Crowd was hotter for this match than the one that followed a few months later...

*Bret vs. Backlund - SVS - ****1/2*

Good match, incredible finish. Perfect example of how to use the gimmick portion of a gimmick match to further the story that's being told rather than just having a gimmick for gimmick's sake. Owen is just lights out all the way around. 

1994 was a really strong year for the WWF in terms of match quality. Big step up from 1993 IMO, although I haven't really plumbed the depths of that year as thoroughly.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Loved that Wrestlefest tag back in the day. 

Psyched for HHH/Brock at Summerslam. Hopefully they work it similarly to Cena/Brock with that element of realness to it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Of course, the Summer of Trips will end with a review of Hunter vs Lesnar 

Been only able to watch one Trips match yesterday and that was Vengeance 2006.. I'm gonna finish the second DX run and start on the second quad comeback tomorrow. 

Gonna get the Streak DVD just to see Arn's glorious spinebuster in HD' . Just sayin'


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Moustache said:


> I'm racking my brain trying to think of better tv matches from '94 and only the classic between Bret and Waltman comes to mind.


Check out Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon Raw 8/11/1994. Very strong TV match and Shawn and Scott have great chemistry with each other.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Done to death, but 'Taker/Michaels/Hunter series:

25 ~ **** 1/2
26 ~ *****
27 ~ *****
28 ~ **** 3/4

And, Hunter's 2006 matches ratings (Haven't watched the Spirit Squad stuff so only for those that I've watched):

- New Year's Revolution (Big Show) ~ **** 1/2*
- WrestleMania 22 (Cena) ~ ***** 1/4*
- Backlash (Cena/Edge) ~ ******
- Unforgiven (Hell in a Cell) ~ **** 1/4*
- Survivor Series (Traditional SS Match) ~ ****


----------



## Godfather- (Jan 4, 2012)

How would you guys rate RVD: One of a kind? He's my favourite of all time, but I don't want it to be a bad DVD..


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Godfather- said:


> How would you guys rate RVD: One of a kind? He's my favourite of all time, but I don't want it to be a bad DVD..


really great DVD imo, some of his best matches from back in the day, esp from ecw, one match is cut vs Tommy Dreamer. (according to a review on amazon)


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

> There’s yet another major title on the way before the year is out – Brock Lesnar.
> 
> Listed on WWE’s schedules now and expected for release in late November or December, the Brock Lesnar production will hit both DVD and Blu-ray formats.
> 
> ...


Interesting...


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Lesnar? That's an awesome series. nWo, Rock/Cena, Lesnar, Taker's Streak. + Rock's new documentary, good year for their DVD business.

Now they only need to do, Sting, Goldberg and Kurt Angle(Also Hall and Nash but they're already doing nWo).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock316AE said:


> Now they only need to do, Sting.


if that ever happens, I doubt it tbh,

I havn't seen here comes the pain so I'll be looking to get the new one if it happens...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar set? Awesome. Hope they put one of the SD matches with Rey in 02 on it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Too bad there won't be a great Lesnar/Benoit match.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

About to watch No Mercy 2007, heard good things about the Orton/HHH match, any thoughts on the rest of the show?

Also, I had spell of not watching the WWE during 2007, so just wondered why the Undertaker is not on the show? Considering he made his return at the prior PPV.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

no mery is a bad ppv except the main event. and taker probably wasn't on the show because thye wanted to finish the batista/khali feud so they could concentrate on the big hell in a cell match at survivior series.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Too bad there won't be a great Lesnar/Benoit match.


First thing I thought of.



Rock316AE said:


> Lesnar? That's an awesome series. nWo, Rock/Cena, Lesnar, Taker's Streak. + Rock's new documentary, good year for their DVD business.
> 
> Now they only need to do, Sting, Goldberg and Kurt Angle(Also Hall and Nash but they're already doing nWo).


Problem with Kurt would be the fact that Chris Benoit is the greatest opponent he ever had. WWE refuses to feature him in anything (apart from the odd Elimination Chamber DVD) so that would handicap Kurt's match list. They've had so many classics worthy of being there... Wrestlemania 2000, WM17, Backlash 01, Steel Cage match on Raw, Royal Rumble 03.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Benoit is in many of Angle's best matches. They had classic*s* against each other and as a team but I believe Angle has plenty of great matches for a WWE 3-disc set minus Benoit.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

What are the pre-2007 DVD sets that feature Benoit on them, non-PPV? I'd been wondering where to watch the vs Edge LMS for starters, but there are so many matches of his that I've had to resort to youtube for, but it'd be quite nice to actually own them.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Austin, Undertaker and Rey were far better opponents for Angle than Benoit ever was. Hell the minute Angle started wrestling regularly with Benoit he slowly evolved from the rookie who could be led along by vets to good-great matches in 2000/2001 (he obviously contributed, but the structure and layout was clearly being led by Austin and Taker) to the guy obsessed with wrestling 'classics' and developing a more spot heavy go-go-go formula as best illustrated after Royal Rumble 2003. I think I've only ever 'enjoyed' a couple of their matches, namely Unforgiven 2002 but its been ages since I've seen that. The rest typically ranged into overkill territory with umpteen suplexes being no sold so the other guy could transition into his set of moves and the Ankle Lock/Crossface submission spot being repeatedly whored out. Its all the more disappointing considering both men could have easily had a great match if they played off of Angle's underhanded tactics and Benoit's stiffness, but alas they didn't and Benoit always worked tremendously better with the Finlay's and Regal's of the WWE whilst Angle worked supremely with Austin and Taker (who knew how to reel him in and focus on his strengths) and Mysterio who could bump for all of Angle's offence and add some story and structure to their usually sprint heavy matches.

Basically Clique is correct in saying a lack of Benoit shouldn't greatly impact on any Angle DVD whatsoever.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

greendayedgehead said:


> What are the pre-2007 DVD sets that feature Benoit on them, non-PPV? I'd been wondering where to watch the vs Edge LMS for starters, but there are so many matches of his that I've had to resort to youtube for, but it'd be quite nice to actually own them.


I dont think it is part of a DVD (the LMS match) but I have it on my computer, that show and am pretty sure it is somewhere on youtube. I remember seeing it there about a year ago.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd love to see an Angle DVD, but isn't he signed with TNA through 2014 or something like that?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> What are the pre-2007 DVD sets that feature Benoit on them, non-PPV? I'd been wondering where to watch the vs Edge LMS for starters, but there are so many matches of his that I've had to resort to youtube for, but it'd be quite nice to actually own them.


vs Jericho RR 01, MITB I : The Ladder Match
vs Kurt Angle RR 03 : History of the WWE Championship
vs Bret Hart Nitro 99 : Bret Hart BTI BTW BTTEWB
vs John Cena SD 03 : John Cena Word Life
W/Angle vs Los Guerreros vs Edge/Mysterio SS 02 : The Eddie Guerrero Story
Obv the Chris Benoit Hard Knocks DVD

Off the top of my head, not a huge selection of matches but that's essentially it as there actually weren't many sets released prior to Benoit's death. There may be a few more that I'm looking over, but to my best knowledge, that's all I can gather, hope I was a help


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> Basically Clique is correct in saying a lack of Benoit shouldn't greatly impact on any Angle DVD whatsoever.


Angle/Mysterio - SummerSlam 02, SD Aug 04, SD Japan 05, , etc
Angle/Austin - Raw Jan 01, SummerSlam 01, Unforgiven 01, etc
Angle/Taker - SD03, NWO 06, SD 06, etc.
Angle/Rock NWO 01
Angle/Michaels WM21
Angle/Shane KOTR 01
Angle/HHH RR 01
Angle/Edge Backlash 02
Angle/RVD ECW 06
Angle/Cena NM 03
Angle/Lesnar WM19 and/or SummerSlam 03
Angle/Eddie 2/3 Falls SD 04
Angle/Lesnar/Show Vengeance 03
Angle/Flair Raw June 05 (FUN)

Those matches and a documentary would make a great DVD set.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fucking shitty Rock/Cena feud DVD that nobody watched for free during RTWM. Fucking NWO DVD that I don't care about. Fucking Lesnar DVD and he's only back. Fucking hypothetical Angle DVD which will never happen. Where the fuck is my Triple H DVD?  He'll never get one at this rate lol.

The set I'm most looking forward to this year is probably Punk's tbh. I think the documentary should be pretty darn sweet based on all he has said about it so far. Should be a good one.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

What are the chances of us ever getting an Angle set though?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Angle doesn't have to be in the WWE for them to produce a DVD on him (i.e. Hogan, Rock, Warrior, etc.) although I want him involved in the process and sit down interview for a documentary.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> vs Jericho RR 01, MITB I : The Ladder Match
> vs Kurt Angle RR 03 : History of the WWE Championship
> vs Bret Hart Nitro 99 : Bret Hart BTI BTW BTTEWB
> vs John Cena SD 03 : John Cena Word Life
> ...


Satan's Prison (Elimination Chamber) also has Benoit in it. The 2005 match but the commentary is heavily edited and they are mostly silent when Benoit does a move and commentary praises it. It's so stupid, they should just leave it like it is. If somebody has a problem with Benoit being included in a DVD, they can easily skip anything to do with him.

And Angle obviously has a lot of good stuff to make up for the lack of Benoit but as I said, it's just not the same without him. They had so many excellent matches together, one of which is by many considered the best match ever. I can't wait until I reach the summer of 2003 on Raw/Smackdown because I really am eager to watch the rest of the Lesnar/Angle matches but I'm willing to hold on until I reach that part of the year.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Angle will get a set if he comes back 150% guaranteed, otherwise, I don't see him getting one because I don't think it will sell that well tbh and without him involved in the process it would be a bit pointless.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Problem with Kurt would be the fact that Chris Benoit is the greatest opponent he ever had. WWE refuses to feature him in anything (apart from the odd Elimination Chamber DVD) so that would handicap Kurt's match list. They've had so many classics worthy of being there... Wrestlemania 2000, WM17, Backlash 01, Steel Cage match on Raw, Royal Rumble 03.


Don't forget the awesome Unforgiven 2002 match, one of my favorite matches of all time. But yeah, not including Benoit wouldn't be good but still, it's Kurt Angle. You can find enough great matches for 20 disc set.

I don't want it now of course, because I want the DVD mainly for a new Angle's documentary on his WWF career. 1-2-3 years from now when Kurt is coming back...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Angle sure as hell ain't getting a DVD if he's with TNA. He doesn't have to be a WWE employee, but he can't be an employee for another promotion. Vince is paranoia.


HHH DVD will come, I think. Don't worry, Trip will pull the strings to make a mega 12 disc "I Am That Good" set.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Angle WWE set would actually be pretty great I would imagine apart from the fact the Benoit matches obviously wouldn't be on there.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Attitude Era DVD released later this year!

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/breaking-wwe-the-attitude-era-dvd-released-later-this-year/25250/


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

> *BREAKING: WWE – The Attitude Era DVD Released Later This Year!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, what an awesome series of DVDs WWE are doing this year. Rock, nWo, Rock/Cena, Lesnar, Taker and now AE set. 

Huge potential for this documentary.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Should do well in combination with the AE themed WWE13.

Vince still milking the AE 10 years later.

:vince


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vince still milking it, and the AE ubermakrs are still throwing their cash his way to get one more glimpse of the past .

Not looking forward too much to an AE set. A documentary could be really great (I like documentaries in general, so long as they aren't the shitty "this is what I do outside of wrestling" Cena style ones), but fuck, I don't need another sodding copy of Austin stunning McMahon or drowning him in beer or Rock doing the same old promo 3 or 4 times or the birth of Mr fucking Socko. Less 98 and 99 and more 2000 (the often forgotten year when AE is mentioned on DVD's, despite the fact its THE BEST YEAR EVER) and I'll be happy.


----------



## IraGoldberg (Jul 12, 2012)

*WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

I loved the first one, hbk vs hart... But does anybody know when the next will be released and who it will be of? Ive read rumors but does anybody know something solid? I personally am hoping for Rock vs Austin... I no Austin vs Mcmahon will be made at some point too... But does anybody know anything?


----------



## ben_fletch (Dec 13, 2011)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

Nothing is confirmed, just rumours


----------



## IraGoldberg (Jul 12, 2012)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*



ben_fletch said:


> Nothing is confirmed, just rumours


Thats too bad... Well i guess its the waiting game now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

Rock/Austin is the next one id like to see, would be a bit different as with the Bret/HBK one there was genuine heat and rivalry and a shitstorm involved, but there was so much passion with rock/austin there has to be one.

Still wouldn't mind a 2 disc hogan/sting one!!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

nwo/lesner dvds- good times, will get those, attitude era not too sure, depends what the doc is like tbh, hope it includes its origins...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Russo is no longer employed by a wrestling company... would sure be mighty interesting if he and WWE came to an agreement and he worked on the DVD with them.


----------



## King_Of_This_World (May 17, 2012)

About bleeding time!

I hope the DVD doesnt just brush over it though.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Backlash 2009*

Christian v Swagger ***** - Good.

Jericho v Steamboat ****** - GREAT, an all time favourite match

Punk v Kane ****1/4*

Hardy v Hardy ****3/4* - slow start, but worth it for Matt's leg work and hilarious hick voice. "Jeff... Jeff we're brothers..."

Legacy v HHH, Batista, McMahon - *****1/4*

Edge v Cena - *****3/4* BY GAWD. BY GAWD 'E KILLED 'IM. Awesome blowoff to an awesome rivalry, and acutally better than I remembered.

Fantastic PPV. One of those rare gems where everything on the card is worth watching, no exceptions.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

about time for an Attitude era DVD .. hell yeah


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

greendayedgehead said:


> *Backlash 2009*
> 
> Christian v Swagger ***** - Good.
> 
> ...


Indeed a great PPV. Up there are one of the very best. IMO its missing a "classic" but that's about it.

***3/4
***1/2
***1/4
***
****
***3/4


----------



## will94 (Apr 23, 2003)

Content for the Rock vs. Cena DVD/Blu:

*Disc 1*
After 7 Long Years 

A Year in the Making 

The People’s Champ 

The New Face of the WWE 

Social Media Warfare 

LockerRoom Noise 

Loyalty and Respect 

Let’s Go Cena – Cena Sucks 

Once in a Lifetime 

Special Features 
First Class 

Tiger Pride 

World’s Most Famous Arena 

A Funny Person 

Comedy Translates 

Flat on My Face 

Singing

Tonight Show

Merry Christmas!

Getting Dad Involved 

Giving Back 

Unpredictable 

Tickets

Clash

Secret Recipe

*Disc 2*
The Rock Returns to RAW
_RAW 14th February, 2011_

John Cena Responds to The Rock
_RAW 21st February, 2011_

The Rock Confronts “John Cena” At His Home
_RAW 14th March, 2011_

John Cena Adjusts The Rock’s Attitude
_RAW 28th March, 2011_

The Rock Welcomes the WWE Universe
_WrestleMania XXVII 3rd April, 2011_

*WWE Championship Match*
The Miz vs. John Cena
_WrestleMania XXVII 3rd April, 2011_

Save the Date: The Rock vs. John Cena 
_RAW 4th April, 2011_

John Cena: This is Your Life
_RAW 11th November, 2011_

Boots to Asses 
_RAW 11th November, 2011_

*Never Before, Never Again*
The Rock & John Cena vs. The Miz & R-Truth
_Survivor Series 20th November, 2011_

*Disc 3*
John Cena Calls Out Dwayne Johnson
_RAW 20th February, 2012_

The Rock & John Cena Face-to-Face
_RAW 27th February, 2012_

The Rock’s History Lesson #1
_RAW 5th March, 2012_

John Cena Returns Home 
_RAW 5th March, 2012_

The Rock’s History Lesson #2
_RAW 5th March, 2012_

The Rock’s History Lesson #3
_RAW 5th March, 2012_

The Rock & John Cena Live in Boston
_RAW 5th March, 2012_

The Return of Thuganomics
_RAW 12th March, 2012_

Rock Concert
_RAW 12th March, 2012_

The Final Confrontation
_RAW 26th March, 2012_

WrestleMania XXVIII Press Conference
_Miami 28th March, 2012_

The Rock vs. John Cena
_WrestleMania XXVIII 1st April, 2011_

*Blu-Ray Exclusive Features*
Typewriter 

A Dozen Eggs 

Hungry? 

Blaisdell Center 

Instant Gratification 

Billboard 

Electrifying Mexico City 

Evicted

Tattoo

The Kidman Spot

Enjoying the Moment

Tribute to the Troops

“U Can’t See Me”

Grilled Cheese

Bad Advice

Rise Above Hate

*FILM CUT- Once in a Lifetime*
The Rock vs. John Cena 
_WrestleMania XXVIII 1st April, 2012_

The Rock Comments on his WrestleMania Match
_RAW 2nd April, 2012_

John Cena Comments on his WrestleMania Match
_RAW 2nd April, 2012_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well the content for that looks UTTER SHIT as expected. Their feud sucked, the promos sucked, the matches sucked. Absolutely nothing on that DVD worth getting unless you are an uber Rock and/or Cena mark.


----------



## Mqwar (Jun 16, 2012)

LockerRoom Noise? Interesting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I actually think some of those chapters could be interesting. I don't think I'll buy it but it looks worth a download lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Well the content for that looks UTTER SHIT as expected. Their feud sucked, the promos sucked, the matches sucked. Absolutely nothing on that DVD worth getting unless you are an uber Rock and/or Cena mark.


I'm an uber Rock fan and I'm not getting it. I couldn't stand how their feud was built for the most part with the "You left, I'm still here" bullshit they were spewing. Rock would attack Cena's persona while Cena would take shots at "Dwayne - The Movie Star." The focus should have been more on present icon vs. past icon and I felt they could have been more creative in telling how this entire feud came about. How this was Cena's dream to face The Rock. However, I did enjoy the WM28 match very much. Largely due to the atmosphere, personalities clashing in a big time match, and me being at ringside to take it all in. Other than that I couldn't stand almost all of their interactions together but most of those Rock promos by himself were spot on with the message of why he needed to win and many of his jokes were funny (mainly the #1 history lesson). As for Cena, the promo after NWO '12 I liked. The empty arena promo Cena did would have been OK if the ramifications of him losing connected back to the things he said but the loss he took was just brushed off so whatever.

If I never see Rock/Cena in the ring together for anything again I will be pleased. They used Rock with one person far too much already. I want to see him work with other people.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

> WWE Championship Match
> The Miz vs. John Cena
> WrestleMania XXVII 3rd April, 2011


Pre-ordered.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/Best-of-Raw-Volume-1-Best-of-Raw-Volume-2-DVD-2-Discs.html

New Tagged Classic.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

About to watch Cyber Sunday 07, should be a decent show, card looks good.
Rey/Finlay, HHH/Umaga, Orton/HBK, Taker/Batista.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Baldwin. said:


> http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/Best-of-Raw-Volume-1-Best-of-Raw-Volume-2-DVD-2-Discs.html
> 
> New Tagged Classic.


BILLY GUNN got a WWF Championship shot in 1996!?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> BILLY GUNN got a WWF Championship shot in 1996!?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah the Rock/Cena looks crap. Will not be picking it up at all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Me neither tbh, im a big rock fan too but him and cena didn't and don't interest me at all, funny coz they'll probably end up having another match anyways...


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Think i'll give it a miss aswell.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

:lmao @ Rock/Cena set.

I will probably be downloading disc 1 because I watched the TV version and liked it. But the rest... :lmao 


Lil'Jimmy said:


> Pre-ordered.


Even if that was sarcasm, your money would be better spent on just getting the actual Wrestlemania XXVII DVD.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm clearly alone, but I think the Rock/Cena set looks great. I'm with the rest of you in that I pretty much HATED anytime they were face to face in the ring together because the promos sucked. Like Clique said, they took the feud in the absolute wrong direction. They did Rock/Hogan perfectly, they could've copied the exact same formula for Rock/Cena.

Rock comes back on February 14th, 2011 - I'd keep that promo and change nothing. One of the best returns ever imo.
From there, call me crazy but I'd have nothing going on until the RAW before Wrestlemania in Chicago. Have Cena interrupt Rocky but instead of the shite he spewed out about how he worked his tail to the bone for the good of the business blah blah, I'd have Cena say that he talked trash because he knew that Rocky would take notice and come back because Rock is the master at talking trash. Have him say it's his dream to face Rocky, and say that Rocky may have been THE GUY back in the day but now Cena is the guy and he's gonna prove it at Wrestlemania. Have that be the night where they shake hands and agree to the match...

...and then have him give Rocky the AA just as it happened, and then have Rock cost Cena the match at Wrestlemania with the Rock Bottom.

We didn't need the segment the night after Wrestlemania in my opinion.

As for all the 2012 stuff, the end of the segment in Portland sucked, and the end of the segment in Boston sucked, and the end of the segment in Atlanta absolutely sucked too. The promos were far better when they were away from each other, such as Cena's promo the night after No Way Out or Rock's history lessons and Rock Concert. It was as though Rock was allowed to be classic Rock whenever he did his videos and solo stuff, but was told to tone it down and let Cena have all the glory whenever they were face to face. Not to mention Cena's whole argument was total and utter bullshit.

Anyways, I'll be getting the Blu Ray. I'm glad they've included the Rock Concert, and if the post-Wrestlemania promo from April 2nd is there in FULL then it's must-have for me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

admiremyclone said:


> Anyways, I'll be getting the Blu Ray. I'm glad they've included the Rock Concert, and if the post-Wrestlemania promo from April 2nd is there in FULL then it's must-have for me.


Probably my favorite promo of his since he's been back along with the return promo of course. Then history lesson and Survivor Series.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Clique said:


> Probably my favorite promo of his since he's been back along with the return promo of course. Then history lesson and Survivor Series.


Ya know, it literally blows my mind how WWE fumbled the feud from the beginning. It should've written itself; the two biggest stars of their respective eras clashing at Wrestlemania. 

It should've been a simple case of both men wanting to prove they were the better man and that their era was greater. Pure ego, and nothing else. Instead, we got the same hot garbage every week with just a few glimmers of goodness.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree whoever did the writing for the feud dropped the ball on the build but they hyped the hell out of the match for a year and it was successful in regards to the actual show.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Clique said:


> I agree whoever did the writing for the feud dropped the ball on the build but they hyped the hell out of the match for a year and it was successful in regards to the actual show.


It was Stephanie McMahon who wanted to create a situation like Twilight where fans had to choose between Team Bring It and the CeNation and the only real bit of ammo that John Cena had on The Rock was the fact that he had been out of WWE for nearly seven years. Cena really could attack The Rock on anything else for the most part. So you can blame Stephanie for that just like you can blame her and Vince for pretty much every problem that WWE has today is their fault more then anybody else.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

You know, I even wonder if it was all just the writers. I sense that Rock and Cena had a hand in this themselves, too.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

The Hardcore Show said:


> It was Stephanie McMahon who wanted to create a situation like Twilight where fans had to choose between Team Bring It and the CeNation and the only real bit of ammo that John Cena had on The Rock was the fact that he had been out of WWE for nearly seven years. Cena really could attack The Rock on anything else for the most part. So you can blame Stephanie for that just like you can blame her and Vince for pretty much every problem that WWE has today is their fault more then anybody else.


Whats the source for this? Observer didnt report anything like this. 

Besides, Team Bring it vs CeNation was bound to happen since it was face vs face feud. Cena wasnt going to be a heel against the rock even though he was booed. 

To me it seemed like it was more Cena himself, than the writers. I mean writers told him to say that Rock had his promos written in the wrist on Live tv?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Vyed said:


> To me it seemed like it was more Cena himself, than the writers. I mean writers told him to say that Rock had his promos written in the wrist on Live tv?


It wouldn't surprise me if they did. Everything thing about this feud from Cena's direct shots on the mic to how WWE subtly crafted Rock's image as a Hollywood outsider was their way of making Cena the de facto face in the feud from a booking standpoint. WWE built no importance to Rock's return at Survivor Series or his rich history as a WWE legend returning to the company. The reactions from the fans weren’t going to be completely swayed though.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

> I mean writers told him to say that Rock had his promos written in the wrist on Live tv?


You don't actually believe that was a shoot? It's The Rock. He could go out and do a 20 minute promo with his eyes closed. Rock's done ALOT of promos and he's never went to the ring with promo notes wrote on his wrist. It was a plan to get some fans on Cena's side. 

Rock during that promo was trying to make the notes noticeable on camera. From stopping mid way and having a drink to him showing his hand to the camera. The whole promo was for Cena to get one over on Rock. The whole promo was set up for that one line.

The fans didn't fall for the notes on wrist at all. Cena tried making fun of it the next week and the fans didn't react and it was dropped.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Clique said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if they did. Everything thing about this feud from Cena's direct shots on the mic to how WWE subtly crafted Rock's image as a Hollywood outsider was their way of making Cena the de facto face in the feud from a booking standpoint.


They did try to keep him over as a face, but I highly doubt they had him talk about Rock's promos written in his wrist on Live RAW. 

And the Rock in response went personal and talked about Cena's wife during the Rock concert, which I also doubt was scripted by writers. 



> *WWE built no importance to Rock's return at Survivor Series or his rich history as a WWE legend returning to the company.* The reactions from the fans weren’t going to be completely swayed though.


Not true at all. They even promoted his first match in WWE at MSG 1996. 
Video package at the start says it all..









The-Rock-Says said:


> You don't actually believe that was a shoot? It's The Rock. He could go out and do a 20 minute promo with his eyes closed. Rock's done ALOT of promos and he's never went to the ring with promo notes wrote on his wrist. It was a plan to get some fans on Cena's side.
> 
> Rock during that promo was trying to make the notes noticeable on camera. From stopping mid way and having a drink to him showing his hand to the camera. The whole promo was for Cena to get one over on Rock. The whole promo was set up for that one line.
> 
> The fans didn't fall for the notes on wrist at all. Cena tried making fun of it the next week and the fans didn't react and it was dropped.


Eh.. Not too sure about that. Rock did have notes written on his wrist and his promos at the time were largely about twitter trends, juvenile jokes and quite dragging. It wasnt the Rock of his prime that would rip his opponent apart on the mic. 

I believe that line was a shoot but I guess we will never know for sure.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Vyed said:


> Not true at all. They even promoted his first match in WWE at MSG 1996.
> Video package at the start says it all..


Maybe we have different standards for big build but the build The Rock's return to Survivor Series didn't feel important to me, sorry.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Considering we were having about 10 Rock/Cena threads a week on how many people wanting to see it and now people are slating it, shows how much they dropped they ball. Everything about the feud was ugly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That feud was utter crap and WWE really have to pat themselves on the back for getting the buyrate they did based on the actual content of that feud. Hell the Cole/Lawler feud was better booked week by week for about a month (it got ridiculous closer to Mania and especially post Mania) than Rock/Cena.

Both men delivering the same repetitive promos against one another, WWE somehow failing to explore how big the match was for Cena to truly become an all time great and emerge from the shadow of the Attitude Era greats, to establish 'his generation' as something great etc. The 'insults' were utter garbage from both men and I still don't get how things like 'fruity pebbles' or some of the other lines Rock dropped were as praised as they were: I do get the distinct impression he could say ANYTHING and his greatest fans would spin it as an edgy put-down, and then slate Cena if they said anything remotely similar.

Christ it only took WWE 1 segment to make Lesnar/Cena more interesting and personal than they managed in an entire year with the two biggest Icons at their disposal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TBH I'm not sure what people were expecting for Rock/Cena feud. Both do terrible, lame, repetitive promos anyway, so yeah, I got exactly what I expected .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Only thing I'll say is that moment where Cena interrupted a 15 minute Rock promo and in about 1 minute and a half tore him apart and got right in his face smirking before exiting was one of the more damned burials I've seen against Rock. TBF Rock looked legit pissed during it (and I don't really think he's that great of an actor to convey such hatred in his eyes without being a little pissed) but by just standing there, saying nothing as Cena talked about beating his arse and then getting to within spitting distance and then exiting....and then Rock standing there before finally muttering a reply about bringing it to Cena and stumbling over his words...it was just nothing like you'd expect out of The Rock character.

I'm sure someone on here said during his comeback it felt like Dwayne Johnson playing The Rock, rather than The Rock being out there. And tbh I couldn't agree more with that, whether you wish to argue WWE deliberately held him back in order to have Cena win a segment one week or not, something when watching him just never felt 'right'. Whether he'd been gone too long or something, or he changed it up for a new audience: things like him constantly bringing the fans into the promos: "We can do it" and then begging the crowd to join in etc...it just felt forced and not what The Rock character was about back in his prime. Fans joined in with his promos by themselves, he'd never openly call on the fans to join along or refer to them as a collective 'we', it was always about The Rock.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

*Summerslam 1997*

Mankind vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Steel Cage) - ***1/2
Goldust vs Brian Pillman - *1/2
Legion Of Doom vs Godwinns - ***
British Bulldog vs Ken Shamrock (European Championship) - **1/4
Los Baricuas vs DOA - *
Owen Hart vs Steve Austin (Intercontinental Championship) - ****
Bret Hart vs Undertaker (WWF championship) - ****1/4 (MOTN, even if it was to set up HBK/Taker's epic feud)

*In Your House: Ground Zero*

Brian Pillman vs Goldust - ***
Brian Christopher vs Scott Putzki - *1/2
Crush vs Savio Vega vs Faarooq - 3/4*
Max Mini vs El Torito - **
The Headbangers vs Hart Foundation vs Godwinns vs Legion Of Doom (Tag Team Championship)- ***
Bret Hart vs The Patriot (WWF Championship) - ***1/2
HBK vs The Undertaker - ****1/4 (MOTN)

*In Your House: Badd Blood*

Legion Of Doom vs Nation Of Domination (Handicap match) - *3/4
Tarantula and Mosaic vs Max Mini and Nova - 3/4*
The Headbangers vs The Godwinns (Tag Team Championship) - *1/2 
Owen Hart vs Faarooq (Intercontinental Championship) - ***
Los Baricuas vs DOA - **
Bret Hart & British Bulldog vs Vader and The Patriot (Flag Match) - **1/4
HBK vs Taker (Hell In A Cell) - ***** (MOTY so far - just INCREDIBLE. HBK's selling, Taker being a monster and Kane's debut all make it a awesome, awesome match)

First time i've rated stuff, so any feedback is welcome ​


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I think the opinion of them being boring, lame, repetitive etc is irrelevant. These were the two biggest faces (fuck Hogan) in the history of this business which an actual story behind them. Rock fucking off to Hollywood, Cena staying loyal to the fans and still working in Hollywood, who is the better wrestler, etc, etc. 

I agree wherever said they let Cena have some freedom on the mic. He was definitely shooting during some of his promos. The only thing I actually liked about the whole feud was The Rock song, the only time I have laughed at wrestling in years.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Goddamn, instead of an AE DVD, they should just do an AE tag division DVD.

Not too interested in it outside of NAO, X-Pac, APA, E&C, Shamrock, Blackman & Jericho. No Benoit sucks. (N)

Edit: Dudleyz too.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Only thing I'll say is that moment where Cena interrupted a 15 minute Rock promo and in about 1 minute and a half tore him apart and got right in his face smirking before exiting was one of the more damned burials I've seen against Rock.


Oof, I remember that. Hell I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the cattier side of this. From that one time they did the Return of Thuganomics/Rock Concert to this one really passionate promo I remember Cena gave (excellent delivery but as people have said, very repetitive. You're only as good as your material I suppose.)



Word said:


> I think the opinion of them being boring, lame, repetitive etc is irrelevant. These were the two biggest faces (fuck Hogan)


STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD!


Brye said:


> Goddamn, instead of an AE DVD, they should just do an AE tag division DVD.
> 
> Not too interested in it outside of NAO, X-Pac, APA, E&C, Shamrock, Blackman & Jericho. No Benoit sucks. (N)
> 
> Edit: Dudleyz too.


Would be a bit similar to that Greatest Tag Teams set they came out with not too long ago, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm just worried that we're going to get tons of recycled segments from the OMG: Outrageous moment DVD and the Raw anniversary DVD.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock/Cena feud was shit. Rock/Cena match was alright. Rock/Cena live was unbelievable and something I'll never forget.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep, the feud was kinda disappointing. From Cena smiling like a dickhead when Rock threatens to rip his throat out to The Rock holding back just so golden boy Cena can avoid getting buried.

I enjoyed the match, though. And the fact The Rock won gives it the perfect ending. Cena winning clean would have been one of the most horrible endings I've ever witnessed.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If Cena had won that match I honest to God think there would have been a riot lol. When he went for the people's elbow the tension just lifted a notch if possible. I was actually worried for a second or two, haha.


----------



## IraGoldberg (Jul 12, 2012)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

I just rlly dnt wanna see Ausin vs Mcmahon yet... I hope its aniother wrestler vs wrestler one


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

Hopefully they'll make one for The Rock vs. Steve Austin rivalry. :mark:


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

I think Vince McMahon vs. entertaining storylines should definitely be released as a WWE greatest rivalry DVD. That rivalry has been going on for the last 6 years atleast.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels (Jul 18, 2011)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

Yeah, I figure Austin/McMahon would be damn good.

But personally, it seems like a feud that had some real life shit would be more suited and I don't know who that could be.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: WWE greatest rivalries DVD question*

While I wouldn't put this in the "greatest rivalries" category I'd love to see a DVD documenting the WCW/ECW Invasion angle. I think it'd be cool to kind of get the feel of the backstage atmosphere at the time and the reason certain decisions took place; getting a bunch of different guys perspectives and feelings on it from both sides of the coin. I think it'd be pretty interesting.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

We NEED a HBK/Taker career rivalry DVD/Blu Ray Asap.

EDIT: Also caught the 2008 Raw Scramble match earlier. ****

Christ this was boring, JBL/Tista with their usual botchamania sequence, Kane didn't make things much better, Mysterio livened the match up but by that point the crowd were dead silent. Yes the ending with Jericho was cool but it didn't save this clusterfuck.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

> Disc 1
> After 7 Long Years
> 
> A Year in the Making
> ...


The documentary should be great, they're telling the entire story. This main selling point here is the match of course which was great, but also the extras. WWE filmed for a year a lot of content, like you can see in the video packages they did. The feud was hypocritical as hell and they did everything to turn the crowd in favor of Cena. Including telling imaginary story on what really happened. But Rock had plenty of awesome promos, the return, Philly, Boston, History Lessons, SVS, Rock Concert etc. The atmosphere for the tag match at MSG at SVS was special and match was good. And in general, this is a feud nobody will ever forget, no matter what it was memorable and that's what important, so that's a great DVD for years from now, because nobody is going to remember all the crap they did in the build up. Especially when this match broke almost every record in wrestling history. Looks great with a lot of rare content and I'm sure this DVD will be a big seller.

Another interesting thing is the FILM CUT version of the match, that's also a big selling point because it's a special angle.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> We NEED a HBK/Taker career rivalry DVD/Blu Ray Asap.
> 
> EDIT: Also caught the 2008 Raw Scramble match earlier. ****
> 
> Christ this was boring, JBL/Tista with their usual botchamania sequence, Kane didn't make things much better, Mysterio livened the match up but by that point the crowd were dead silent. Yes the ending with Jericho was cool but it didn't save this clusterfuck.


JBL/Batista have some of the most dreadful chemistry. Especially in '08.

And the SD one from that show is fun though. Same with the ECW one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : 2006-2007 (Second DX Run)*

Ven 06 DX vs Spirit Squad : ** 3/4*
SS 06 DX vs Mcmahons : *** 3/4*
Unf 06 DX vs Mcmahons & Big Show : **** 1/4*
CS 06 DX vs Rated RKO : **** 1/4*
SS 06 Elimination Tag : *** 3/4*
NYR 07 DX vs Rated RKO : ***** 1/4*

I did a full write up for this but lost it in the process so fuck it , here are my descriptions for all of these matches in one paragraph :

Vengeance 2006 was very, very stupid. Should have been Mcmahon's vs DX with Summerslam as the blowoff. Some legit funny moments, but it drags at SEVENTEEN minutes long and it's a comedy main event with air horns and pantsing. A stupid fucking match that belonged on Monday Night Raw and not on the main event of a PPV, overshadowing a great forgotten match in RVD vs Edge. Both matches with the Mcmahons are fun, with the Summerslam match featuring great selling by Trips and some awesome tag team moves from Vince and Shane, and the HIAC match being bloody fun but being stupid in the sense that it was a semi comedy match in the cell. The first Rated RKO tag was great with some excellent execution from all 4 men, but the pacing was a little off IMO, Bischoff really added alot to the match as well. The SS 06 tag is a great little fast paced match that isn't fantastic on the snowflakes but is just FUN. I fucking ADORE the NYR 07 tag, and Trips effort even after her tore his quad. This match gets EXTREMELY intense, and the bladejobs are awesome. Maybe my favourite two on two tag team match ever, with the spots being perfect and the fact that their wasn't a conclusive ending added to the match IMO. They should have done Edge-Orton at WM 23.

Basically, Hunter's DX run (besides the Spirit Squad match) was just FUN. It was the complete inverse of 04-06, as he really showed off his versatility as a comedic performer as well. These matches are very entertaining with one all time classic in the mix (when those clowns finally started to get serious), but when it comes to the STARZZZ these matches aren't the best in Hunter's career.. Next up are the post second quad injury matches, all the way up to the end of 2007. Ratings for these matches anyone ? 

*OBIS* , get off your lazy ass and give me some more damn Undertaker PPV match ratings!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *OBIS* , get off your lazy ass and give me some more damn Undertaker PPV match ratings!


Work has been really hard this week.  Just haven't found the time to want to sit down and watch the matches yet.

But have no fear, for the weekend is near!

In the meantime, HHH DX 06 (and for a few days in 07) run:

Ven 06 DX vs Spirit Squad : I can only assume I've erased this match from my memory as I can't even remember if HHH or HBK even hit a pedigree or scm, and based on the fact K1ngofK1ngs of all people rates it so low and it's a Trips match, guess it was erased for a good reason  ).
SS 06 DX vs Mcmahons : **
Unf 06 DX vs Mcmahons & Big Show : **1/2
CS 06 DX vs Rated RKO : ***1/2
SVS 06 Elimination Tag : *1/2
NYR 07 DX vs Rated RKO : ***3/4

The Rated RKO/DX matches were both great. The SVS06 match... I hate for SOOOOOOOOOOOOO many reasons. First off I just generally absolutely HATE clean sweeps in any match, but it's even worse in this case as Edge/Orton were on the losing end, and up until then they were looking very strong. Hell in all fairness, they still looked good even after the match but it definitely put a dent in them imo. Secondly the match never really kicked into second gear from what I remember and was basically Rated RKO's team falling one by one. It never really got that interesting for me to begin with. The DX/McMahon matches were, as K1ngofK1ngs said, "fun". They won't go down as the greatest of anything, but they are what they are.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'll do the ratings for Hunter's 2007 PPV Matches (the ones that I've watched):

- New Year’s Revolution (w/Michaels vs. Rated RKO) ~ **** 1/2*
- No Mercy (Orton) ~ *** 1/2*; Last Man Standing ~ ***** 1/2*
- Cyber Sunday (Umaga) ~ **** 3/4*
- Armageddon (Jeff) ~ **** 1/2*

There is a solid match against Flair on the final episode of Raw (I believe) too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Razor King said:


> I'll do the ratings for Hunter's 2007 PPV Matches (the ones that I've watched):
> 
> - New Year’s Revolution (w/Michaels vs. Rated RKO) ~ **** 1/2*
> - No Mercy (Orton) ~ *** 1/2*; Last Man Standing ~ ***** 1/2*
> ...


That Flair match is really good. (Y)

As for Triple H...

vs Spirit Squad - Vengeance - **
vs McMahons - SS - ***1/4
vs McMahons/Shows - UF - ***1/2
vs Rated RKO - CS - ***1/2
vs Team Rated-RKO - SS - *1/2
vs Rated RKO - NYR - ****1/2
vs Orton - NM - **1/2
vs Orton - NM-LMS - ****1/4
vs Umaga - CS - ****
vs Hardy - Armageddon - ***3/4


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

First look at CM Punk's DVD. Poor quality, but it's from Punk's twitter.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Chris Benoit PPV Matches : 2000*

NWO Radicalz vs. Too Cool - **3/4
WM16 Benoit vs. Jericho vs. Angle - ***
Backlash Benoit vs. Jericho - ***
Judgement Day Submission Match vs. Jericho - ***1/4
KOTR Benoit vs. Rikishi - *
Fully Loaded Chris Benoit vs. The Rock - ****
SS 2/3 Falls vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Unforgiven F4W - ***
No Mercy Chris Benoit vs. Triple H - ****
SVS Radicalz vs. DX - ***1/4
Armageddon Chris Benoit vs. Billy Gunn - **1/2

So it appears that Benoit was Mr. Consistency this year, staying around the *** mark for the majority of his matches. Only two matches I would consider "definite viewing", them being the FL match against The Rock and the No Mercy match against Triple H. The rest I wouldn't avoid, but I wouldn't go out of my way to see and I'm not too bothered about a second watch. It's evident Benoit didn't really perform as well as he could have for whatever reason, whether it be due to the storylines or the competitors (which i doubt, given the caliber of them in general) but compared to other years, as we are all aware of, he wasn't proving why he was considered one of the best in the world.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chris Benoit PPV Matches : 2000

NWO Radicalz vs. Too Cool - **3/4
WM16 Benoit vs. Jericho vs. Angle - ***1/4
Backlash Benoit vs. Jericho - ****
Judgement Day Submission Match vs. Jericho - ****
KOTR Benoit vs. Rikishi - **
Fully Loaded Chris Benoit vs. The Rock - ****
SS 2/3 Falls vs. Chris Jericho - ***
Unforgiven F4W - ***
Rebellion vs. Undertaker - **
No Mercy Chris Benoit vs. Triple H - ***
SVS Radicalz vs. DX - ***
Armageddon Chris Benoit vs. Billy Gunn - ***


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally got me a copy of Summerslam 2002, always loved this PPV tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I too love that event (gone waaay down on HBK/HHH though lol), yet haven't actually bought it on DVD yet . I should probably pick it up before it randomly goes OOP or something... but damn, £13.99 brand new on SV? Not a show I want to get pre-owned because... because I'm weird like that (got some WWE DVD's pre-owned, but only because I wasn't THAT interested in them to start with).

Just looked on Amazon and Play and FUCK, going for £30+ brand new on those sites . SV doesn't seem as bad now lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm a bit the same about pre-owned tbh, but if its a show or set that has either gone out of production or just too dear brand new then I don't mind as much, as I recently bought The Monday Night Wars DVD second hand.

I have noticed the PPV's from 02-04 seem to be a bit dear it seems imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, if a DVD I want is OOP I'll happily buy it pre-owned (like WM 15-18, which I managed to get nice and cheap considering how much they were going for at the time, obviously they've gone down in price thanks to them being released as Tagged Classics lol).

I've also noticed that the 02-04 shows seem to cost more. I can pick up new PPV's a few months after they come out for anywhere between £5-£8 or something on SV during one of their many sales, but something from 02-04 seems to stay at around £13-£14 lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It would be nice if SV offered some of those older PPV's on Wild Wednesday (WM19 would be nice lol)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Elimination Chamber 2010*

_WWE Championship : Sheamus(C) vs John Cena vs Triple H vs Kofi Kingston vs Randy Orton vs Ted Dibiase Elimination Chamber_

I remember watching this match live and genuinely being quite unimpressed, and even stated this was the worst chamber match since the atrocious ECW chamber match. But after finally a second watch of this match it really wasn’t that bad, not in the same league as the chamber that follows it 2 hours later though. I guess my main gripe was at the time how long it took them to utilize the chamber. Randy was really the only one who did once he came in and really showed his sadistic gimmick quite well, especially when he squeezed Kofi’s head outside the chamber. The in ring action however was quite good in this with everyone really having their moments in the match. Words however can’t describe how much I hate this ending, they really had a chance to have another epic cena vs hhh ending to the match, however cena practically makes hhh tap out within 30 seconds of them facing off. These are the reasons why so many people dislike the character of John Cena. Overall however a fairly decent chamber, definitely not in the top 5 ever, but much better then I first assumed.

**** 1/2*

_WWE Championship : John Cena(C) vs Batista_

Vince McMahon can really be a cruel bastard at times and I know people who said why would he give Batista a title match. At first I didn’t like this decision, and would of rathered Cena just retain at Mania, but this was brilliant storyline wise, it fit both his and Batista’s characters so well. Not much of a match, but who doesn’t enjoy Cena getting destroyed. I never was a big fan of the face Batista, and I was just dying for the heel Batista before he left and he definitely didn’t disappoint. Interesting fact that John Cena has never left an Elimination Chamber event with the title in tack despite winning twice. One Star for Cena being mauled.

***

_IC Championship : Drew Mcintrye(C) vs Kane_

Words cannot describe how much the crowd could not give a crap about this match, it was utter silence nearly for 10 minutes. The upside of this match though, the awesome McIntyre entrance for the first time and the in ring action really wasn’t that bad. It was funny that I read that Mcintrye was pushed down because of his in ring work, when I tend to find him one of the most underrated inside the squared circle. The arm work he did here was quite good and the selling from Kane wasn’t too bad either. The finish was a little anticlimactic however after all McIntyre’s arm work he wins with a thumb to the eyes and future shock DDT. I really didn’t think he would get a somewhat clean win over Kane here, and it seemed they really were adamant in pushing him to the moon. I really would like to see him get another opportunity like this, since he has really matured and has paid his dues. 

*** * 

_Raw vs Smackdown :Gail kim & Maryse vs Team Laycool_

Im really torn on this, on one hand by today’s diva standards the in ring work wasn’t bad at all, on the other why turn a vacated Women’s title match into a tag team raw vs Smackdown match. Not saying it would of made it better, it just makes no booking sense. Not too bad, but only memorable for the beautiful Peterson roll by Layla.

***

_US Championship : The Miz(C) w/ Big Show vs MVP w/ Mark Henry_

Really again? If you haven’t read my last review of Royal Rumble 2010, you will discover how much I despise impromptu matches. In the 5 weeks build from TLC to the Rumble they couldn’t’ book this match, and here we are again 3 weeks later in the same ordeal. Putting that all aside this match, was a lot better than there TV like match at the rumble. Miz actually gets busted open quite nicely which I surprisingly never remembered. This match actually got going in the last 5 minutes with some good counters and an awesome belly to belly from the top rope from MVP. However in heel fashion as Miz is on the ropes he pulls the ref away so Show can knockout MVP for the win. Actually a decent match that deserved to be booked on pay per view, Miz was actually improving quick nicely in the ring and he would wreak the rewards later on in the year. 

*** 1/2*

_WH Championship : Undertaker(C) vs Chris Jericho vs Cm Punk vs Rey Mysterio vs R-truth vs John Morrison Elimination Chamber_

One of my favourite chamber matches ever, and it was every bit as good again on this viewing. This is the infamous match when Undertaker gets burnt during his entrance, and practically breaks character to tear his jacket off and nearly run into the ring however Matt Striker does a good job to cover it with his commentary. This is such a fun match, with amazing chemistry between the lot of them. Punk once again steals the first part of the match, with his amazing promos and selling. Once Rey comes in after truth is eliminated the Punk and Rey awesomeness starts, that hurricanrana to Punk on the steel was awesome. Once Rey overcomes Punk, Jericho comes in and there awesome chemistry begins. Rey Mysterio is probably the most underrated worker ever inside the chamber, his bumps and sellings are really amazing. John Morrison comes in and gives a breakout kind of performance, not quite on the level of next year’s chamber but really sells well and genuinely looked good with everyone in the ring. Undertaker and Jericho were the final two, I was waiting so anxiously to see if HBK would make an appearance, and when I saw the grate open I nearly jumped off my chair BAM Superkick 1, 2, 3. 

The only thing that angers me in this match, is something that didn’t happen in this match you follow? How does it take one Superkick to finish Taker when at Mania, 2 superkicks and a Moonsault through a table couldn’t? I know its mania but it just makes me think some times. All in all, in my humble opinion this is in the top 5 chamber matches of all time, it never once dragged, had some great moments and everyone in the ring did their part extremely well. Once I finish reviewing all the pay per views of this year, I think this match will be extremely hard to keep out of the top 5 of the year.

***** 1/4*

_Thoughts_

Another pretty decent pay per view here heading into Mania, it features one of the best chamber matches of all time in my view, and a decent chamber match as well. Anything really outside of the chamber matches however really ain’t that great besides Miz and MVP. But the real selling points of the show are the chamber matches and they were both good to great. I’m split though so far on which pay per view was better, the rumble was much more consistent however the Chamber pay per view was much more top heavy. On that note im going to rate them the same for now.
_
Required Viewing _
_WH Championship : Undertaker(C) vs Chris Jericho vs Cm Punk vs Rey Mysterio vs R-truth vs John Morrison Elimination Chamber_
(***** 1/4*)

*Rating: 6.5/10*


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Does anyone know if No Way Out 2003 and Backlash 2003 DVDs have inserts? And what kind of inserts?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Geolink said:


> Does anyone know if No Way Out 2003 and Backlash 2003 DVDs have inserts? And what kind of inserts?


I only have Backlash 2003 and my new copy didn't include an insert.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

PPV's don't tend to have inserts (well, didn't back then anyway, fuck knows about now I rarely buy them lol) as the entire listing was on the back of the case.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

the trailer for the punk dvd is cool.


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

A new wwe annual 2012 DVD is up on silvervision here.

I'll definately be buying that when it gets reduced in a wild wednesday.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Yup, I'm going to be a copycat.

*HHH in 1998*

WM vs. Owen Hart - ***1/4
OTE vs. Owen Hart - **3/4
FL vs. The Rock - ***3/4
SS vs. The Rock - ****
CC vs. Jeff Jarrett - **1/4

The matches against the Rock were clearly a cut above. I nearly docked the ladder match a 1/4* because Rock doesn't know how to realistically slow-climb a ladder at this point in his career and it takes you out of the match a bit. The worst part of a ladder match is if one guy goes up a little too quickly while his opponent is on the outside and flails at the belt when it's clearly his to grasp, just waiting for the other guy to run in and attack him. Nevertheless, the last 10 minutes of the match are great and make up for that. Maybe the best match of HHH's career to this point (although a couple of the Foley matches were really good).

I'm sure the Jarrett match would have been a lot better if they could have done more, but I guess coming off an injury you have to err on the side of caution. Solid for what it is.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Currently watching the Highest Flyers DVD

Ricky Steamboat vs. Brian Pillman - ***1/4
Ultimo Dragon vs Rey Mysterio Jr - ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs Shelton Benjamin - ****1/2


----------



## LariatSavage (Aug 10, 2010)

Just trying to get my review feet under me, so I've been watching whatever they have on NETFLIX...

Best of King of the Ring

Ladder Match 2: Crash and Burn

Ultimate Randy Savage Collection

Let me know what you think.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> First look at CM Punk's DVD. Poor quality, but it's from Punk's twitter.


Documentary looks like it's going to be interesting. (Y) Can't wait to see what matches Punk chose.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

As a huge Benoit fan, I should definitely rate his matches. Will start with the few I've seen from 2000.

WM16: vs Jericho vs Angle - ****
JD: vs Jericho - ***1/4
FL: vs The Rock - ****1/2
SS: vs Jericho - ***3/4
Unforgiven: vs Rock vs Taker vs Kane - ***3/4
Rebellion: vs Undertaker - ***
Armageddon: vs Billy Gunn - ***

Really wanna see the Rebellion match with Undertaker but have not been able to find it anywhere, whether it's youtube or dailymotion.

EDIT: Finished watching the Taker match. Was a bit too slow and the ending was completely random. Wish the two had faced off more often, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Really hoping for a good match listing for the Punk DVD.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Really wanna see the Rebellion match with Undertaker but have not been able to find it anywhere, whether it's youtube or dailymotion.


Here it is


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Sounds like you guys can't wait for the Rock/Cena WM29 rematch program. tunga3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, as far as my Taker reviews go, I've watched the first three of his PPV matches for 1999. Without going into too much detail, Taker/Bossman and Taker/Austin Over the Edge really exhausted me. I wanted to get through the rest of the matches tonight, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow. I actually think the second half of Taker PPV matches from 1999 are much better overall anyway. I REALLY liked the Taker/Shamrock Backlash match though.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Taker/Shamrock from Backlash was like my favorite WWF/E pay-per-view match of 1999 until the No Mercy ladder tag match. Love that match. Might actually be my favorite Ken Shamrock wrestling match _ever_, come to think of it. The crowd wasn't awake for all of it (it was technically heel vs. heel as part of Russo's Corporation vs. Ministry storyline leading to the reveal of The Greater Power), and it drew loud "END THIS MATCH! END THIS MATCH!" chants but I loved it. Taker kidnapping Stephanie at the end of the pay-per-view bumps the whole PPV up a little bit, too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've never heard of Taker/Shamrock. GOTTA watch it.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I believe it was because Taker kidnapped his sister


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've been meaning to watch it for years, still not got around to it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There's not many matches in 1999 WWF you could convince me to watch, that might be one of them. Plus any Vader/Shamrock slugfests.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Segunda Caida said:


> There's not many matches in 1999 WWF you could convince me to watch, that might be one of them. Plus any Vader/Shamrock slugfests.


Vader left in 98 .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

And I didn't think my opinion on 1999 could get any worse!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Currently watching the Highest Flyers DVD
> 
> Ricky Steamboat vs. Brian Pillman - ***1/4
> Ultimo Dragon vs Rey Mysterio Jr - ****1/2
> Shawn Michaels vs Shelton Benjamin - ****1/2


Check out Pillman vs. Alex Wright and Kidman vs. Juventud from that dvd. Two underrated gems right there. Scorpio/Sabu is surprisingly awesome too.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/Shamrock is a very good match.The in ring work was great..the thing that i didn't like about the match was the crowd,they were dead the whole match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Invasion 2001

E&C vs Storm/Awesome - ***
Hebner/Patrick - :lmao
APA vs O'Haire/Palumbo - *1/2
Kidman/X-Pac - **
Raven/Regal - *1/2
Six Man Tag - *
Tajiri/Tazz - *3/4
RVD/Hardy - ***
Trish/Lita vs Torrie/Stacy - 1/2*
Inaugural Brawl - ****1/4

Not that great of a show when it comes to the matches but the main event is pretty awesome and the whole storyline and the backstage segments made it really good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Undertaker 1999 PPV Matches:* (note: I realize I skipped No Mercy (UK)... though I actually have a plan for that and all other UK PPVs later on)

*Undertaker vs. Big Bossman WM15 Hell in a Cell:*

_My god... why? Why did I sit through this? I mean I knew it was terrible and I knew what I was getting myself into. But good god. I was trying to find something to like about the match to not give it a dud, and the only thing I could come up with was Bearer's trash talk to Bossman... and that just ain't enough. Okay, let's talk about the good first. Undertaker's entrance attire was awesome. The aftermatch was pretty cool. And as I mentioned, Bearer was hilarious during the match. That's about all I got. Now the bad... the workrate was abysmal. I don't see what the story of the match was. The cell was hardly used. It felt like a really bad PG cell match with blood, and it was pretty fucking sloppy. The crowd was fucking dead and only came slightly alive for the tombstone. The match had no real significance at all in the grand scheme of things. This just might be Taker's worst match ever, the worst Cell match ever, and one of the worst matches ever. The only saving grace is that it was less than 10 minutes... though honestly it dragged on so much it felt like a 20+ minute match. I have so much to say about this match, more than any other probably, but I'll just leave it at that. Don't watch this match... I warned you. Even if you're a Taker mark, all it'll do is make you cry._

DUD


*Undertaker vs. Ken Shamrock Backlash 99*

_I had no recollection of this match. I may have watched it a long time ago, but I couldn't remember anything in this match for the life in me. What I saw though was a great match. Not everything was fluid in the match and flowed neatly, but it was a great fight. I can't remember much from this mini-feud between Taker and Shamrock tbh, but from what I gathered from commentary Shamrock's sister was brought into the Ministry craziness, so the personal element was played out well and Shamrock played his role of trying to rip Taker apart to the best of his ability. He used basic small man vs. big man psychology by destroying the vertical base of Taker, but it also just happened to play into his submission finisher the ankle lock. Taker's selling of Shamrock's leg work was great as well, and the ending was a great way to have Taker win and keep Shamrock looking good. It came down to Shamrock having to deal with Bradshaw, Paul Bearer, and of course the man he was in a fight with, Taker. I wasn't expecting this match to be as good as it was, but damn it was a great match in my view. The sour thing in this match though is the crowd, but since I believe this was heel vs. heel and not a high profile match, the crowd couldn't give a shit less, which is unfortunate. This match could've been 4 stars with a much better crowd. _

***1/2


*
Undertaker vs. Austin Over the Edge 1999 (WWE Championship)*

_Match was a chore to sit through to be honest. It wasn't terrible, but it just went on and on and on, and wasn't that enjoyable. Shane's slow counts and then him even telling Undertaker at one point "That wasn't fair!" was hilarious, as well as Bearer hitting Austin with his shoe and JR/King's commentary was great as well, which it always was back then. But really the match is incredibly boring, and at the end of the day it was plagued by the fact Owen Hart died on the same night, and that took precedence over anything else that night (and rightfully so), as well as the fact the ending was a fast count, which never bodes well with me. Not to mention I doubt Taker and Austin were in hit 100% mentally after the Owen Hart incident. It's an "eh" match for me, but nothing more._

**1/4


*Undertaker vs. Rock King of the Ring 1999 (WWE Championship)*

_This was a great attitude era style brawl. This match though is one of my favorites of all time for one simple reason... all the ridiculous arguments my brother and I had about it back when I was a kid, lmao. I was the big Taker mark, he was the big Rock mark. He would watch this match and say "Rock had the match won with the Rock-bottom in the first two minutes and should've been champion!" I would say "Shoulda, woulda, coulda." He brings up what happened with the people's elbow and Rock having it won there, I counter with the fact it was Rock who bumped into the ref and knocked him down. HHH comes in and screws Rock and I say Rock tried to cheat Taker by using that rag (even though Taker was the one that brought it in  ). And there's a lot more. Overall this match is just a lot of fun to watch just to bring back those memories. Good times... good times. But the match itself is very good as well. 
_

***1/2


*Undertaker vs. Austin Fully Loaded 1999 First Blood Match (WWE Championship)*

_Fantastic match. Maybe Taker and Austin's best match. This really felt like a war. The two of them ripping at each other's head and because of what happened earlier in the night, the (repetitive) strikes through most of the match do make a lot of sense. I paticularly love the moment where Taker bumps into the ref and then starts kicking him after he's down... makes me lol everytime. Vince getting involved to save his job also works really well, and X-Pac ultimately helping Austin sets up Taker/Show vs. Kane/X-Pac for SS nicely... though I'm not sure as to why X-Pac would interfere since I don't remember the story that well, but I'm sure there was a reason. Overall awesome match and Taker's best match of 1999 by a good margin. Actually this match was better than I remembered it. _

****1/4


*Undertaker/Big Show vs. X-Pac/Kane Summerslam 1999 (WWE Tag Team Championship)*

_A great tag match here. They get right to fighting, with Taker/X-pac going at it and Show/Kane going at it. Eventually Taker and Show get the better of Kane. I do like the fact that when X-pac got the hot tag mid-match they didn't just have him all of a sudden going super and all of a sudden able to compete with Taker. He got in a few moves but ultimately was overpowered by Taker and Show. Then the control segment of X-pac we all knew needed to be in this match was, and it was great. Big Show absolutely dominating X-pac, before a low-blow. I like where Taker grabs X-pac, taunts Kane, and it ends up screwing him as X-pac makes the tag and Kane goes crazy on Show and Taker. The ending is awesome as well as even though Taker and Show won the match, Taker goes crazy on Show for not getting the victory with the chokeslam due to his weak one foot cover. Overall there a bunch of little elements, combined with a good workrate and some decent storytelling to make this a great one and end Taker's 1999 PPV matches on a good note. The Unholy Alliance was interesting and it's a shame it never really played out due to Taker's injury getting really bad.
_

***1/2

---

So overall 1999 wasn't as bad of a year for Taker as I thought it was. Had a borderline classic in Taker/Austin, great matches with Rock and Shamrock, and a very good tag match at Summerslam. Yeah the Austin Over the Edge match wasn't up to snuff, and the Bossman match is one of the worst matches ever, but overall a solid year for Taker, who was also injured at some point during it or for all of it, not really sure. 

Looking to 2000, I'm looking forward to watching the Unforgiven 4-way, as I haven't seen that match in forever. Also both Angle matches I can't wait to see either. I don't remember them being anywhere near the classic level of their 2003 SD and their NWO 06 match, but I think I remember them being great. The 6-man cell is always a joy to watch. The 6-man tag match at KOTR isn't something good, and it's the first match, but I'm pretty sure it's the worst from Taker in 2000... that or Taker's match with Kane at Summerslam, which I vaguely remember.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think the OTE match with Austin is probably the third best Undertaker/Austin match ever (BL 02, JD 01 and then that), around ***1/2.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I don't know why people always say Taker and Austin never had a good match against each other.Summerslam 1998 had that big match feeling and it was a good match.Fully Loaded 1999 like what *Obis* said is the best match between Austin and Taker and it was a classic.JD 01 was a great match from what i remember.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

More Highest Flyers...

Chris Jericho vs Ultimo Dragon - ***1/2

Hardy Boyz vs Dudley Boyz vs Edge / Christian - ****1/2

Rey Mysterio Jr vs Eddie Guerrero - ****1/2

Juventud Guerrero vs Billy Kidman - ***3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, I remember the JD01 match being awesome and is why Im not sure if I'd put the FL99 match as the best Taker/Austin match. Will have to wait and see.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Obis said:


> Yeah, I remember the JD01 match being awesome and is why Im not sure if I'd put the FL99 match as the best Taker/Austin match. Will have to wait and see.


I would put FL99 above JD 01 only because it was the "End of an Era".


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I just finished watching the Boss Man/Taker HIAC match and like Obis said, it _did_ make me cry but not because it made me sad... because I was laughing my ass off hard. Really, everything about this match is so goofy. From some guy in the crowd standing up and blocking the camera's view on Taker/Boss Man, to the ending, to Michael Cole's over-the-top commentary and the match being so damn boring that the main camera was changed to the one from way up in the arena in the middle of the match when Taker and Boss Man were trading punches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

robertdeniro said:


> I would put FL99 above JD 01 only because it was the "End of an Era".


I recently bought FL'99 and saw that era tag and had to smile in relation to WM!!


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Yeah,it's weird that Taker was in 2 "End of an Era" matches.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Well rewatched Summerslam 2001 today and there isn't a bad match on there. They range from decent to great and is really worth the watch if you haven't already. Not as good as '00 and I haven't seen '02 yet so can't comment, but still a damn good SS.


----------



## justice4joepa (Jul 14, 2012)

How exactly was the 2000 version better? Sure, the product was hotter and had a more artistically pleasing main event love triangle, but it's not as consistent in the ring.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

justice4joepa said:


> How exactly was the 2000 version better? Sure, the product was hotter and had a more artistically pleasing main event love triangle, but it's not as consistent in the ring.


Did you watch 2000?

1999 had guys like Billy Gunn and Val Venis, with some goodness in Shamrock. And of course a good selection of ME talent, with a laughable tag division

2000 had guys like the Radicalz, Angle, Jericho, and a tag division with the Hardyz, E&C, etc.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Does everyone remember the clusterfuck that was the build up too Summerslam 2000 which was leading obviously to team Shane Angle, Show, Beniot Vs team Rock, taker and Kane but Show who just came back fucked up again got injured demoted to OVW and they had to hogwash the Stephanie Angle storyline which they spent a year building from even the smallest backstage skit and had to run it through in 3 weeks. But look at all the awesome matches we got because they ditched the whole conspiracy team Blackman Vs Shane, Jericho Vs Beniot 2 out of 3 falls, TLC ladder match ([email protected] were apart of team Shane), Angle,Triple H and The Rock.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

justice4joepa said:


> How exactly was the 2000 version better? Sure, the product was hotter and had a more artistically pleasing main event love triangle, but it's not as consistent in the ring.


......

Hunter/Foley Royal Rumble 2000 alone is better than anything 1999 as a whole has to offer from an in ring standpoint.

Hunter/Foley NWO whilst not a GREAT Cell match, is still a lot better than you'd get from 1999.

Rock/HHH Backlash and Judgement Day 2000 were again far superior to anything Austin/Rock, Taker/Austin, Mankind/Rock could offer.

HHH/Jericho Fully Loaded LMS match is again on a whole different level to what 1999 produced.

Rock/Benoit whilst let down by the overbooked finish, was again far better than what Rock produced in his feuds in 1999.

HHH/Taka from Smackdown is a better TV match than I ever recall seeing from 1999 WWF.

The Too Cool/Angle & Edge/Christian 6 man from Judgement Day is fun as fuck and again, better than any 1999 opener I can recall.

The Dallas 10 man tag from February featuring HHH and the Radicalz v Foley, Rock & Too Cool is one of Raw's greatest matches, just an insanely great match/segment with an all time great crowd.

I'm not huge on Benoit/Jericho as a series (compared to others), but their series was better than any IC title match I recall from 1999.

Bear in mind I also ommitted the Dudleys/Hardys Table match from Royal Rumble, the Triangle Ladder match from Wrestlemania 16 and TLC 1 from Summerslam. All generally well received even if I have a pretty low opinion on the actual matches myself.

September-December of 2000 tbh is where the year gets weaker from an in ring standpoint, Angle/Rock No Mercy gets a ton of love but its been too long since I last watched it. Unforgiven and Survivor Series are largely weak, and Armageddon is equally disappointing (some love the 6 man HIAC but I'm no fan of it, more of a clusterfuck IMO).

But yeah, despite a weak period from September-December, the first 8 months of 2000 alone blow 1999 out of the water, christ January-May is in another league of its own in terms of match quality. Slowly but surely matches became more about the character performances, structure and story within a match rather than overbooked brawls (and even the overbooked brawls such as HHH/Rock Backlash was booked and executed more like Austin/Dude Love OTE 1998 than some of the poor 1999 brawls).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He was talking about SummerSlam 2000, not the year in general I does believe . And I agree with him, 2001 SS > 2000 SS .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

FFS, apologies if that was his point. I really should proofread more.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might as well post some STARS~! while I'm here:

SummerSlam 2000:

RTC Vs 2 Cool - *1/2
X-Pac Vs Road Dogg - **
Eddie & Chyna Vs Val & Trish - **
Tazz Vs Lawler - **
Blackman Vs Shane - ***
Benoit Vs Jericho - ***
TLC - ****1/4
Kat Vs Terri - DUD
Undertaker Vs Kane - 1/4*
Angle Vs Rock Vs HHH - **1/2

SummerSlam 2001:

Edge Vs Storm - **1/2
Dudley's & Test Vs APA & Spike - **
X-Pac Vs Tajiri - ***3/4
Jericho Vs Rhyno - ***3/4
RVD Vs Hardy - **
BOD Vs DDp & Kanyon - **1/2
Austin Vs Angle - ****3/4
Rock Vs Booker T - **1/2

So yeah, 01 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00. 00 had TLC and pretty much nothing else. 01 has one of the best WWF/E matches ever in Angle/Austin, a great match between Rhyno/Jericho and a great CW Vs LH championship match between Tajiri & X-Pac. Plus I find most of the lower STARS~! matches to be more entertaining overall than 00.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

What do you guys think of Survivor Series 07? I thought it was one of the top 4 PPV's of 2007 (Wrestlemania, Backlash, Royal Rumble). Orton/HBK was a very unique match, they told a great story in the ring and HBK's performance was terrific. The HIAC match between Batista and The Undertaker was good, especially the finishing stretch. And the triple threat match for the ECW Title was a very fun match to open the show.

Orton/HBK *****1/4*
Batista/Taker ****3/4*
Punk/Miz/Morrison ****1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/HBK - ****1/4
Undertaker/Batista - ****1/4

Don't remember loving anything else from the event.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Alex Wright vs Brian Pillman - ***1/2

Shawn Michaels vs Vader - **

2 Cold Scorpio vs Sabu - ***3/4

Kofi Kingston vs Christian - ***

Jeff Hardy vs Umaga - **1/2


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

*Triple H in 1999*

SVDM w/ X-Pac vs Kane & Chyna (tag) - **1/4
WM vs Kane - **1/2
BL vs X-Pac - **3/4
NM (UK) vs Austin vs Taker - ***1/2
FL vs Rock (strap match) - **3/4
SS vs Austin vs Foley - ***1/2
UF vs Kane vs Bulldog vs Rock vs Big Show vs Foley - **1/4
REB vs Rock (cage) - **1/2
NM vs Austin - ****
SVS vs Big Show vs Rock - ***
ARM vs Vince - ***3/4

Very solid year (and obviously a star-making one) from Trips. The hardcore matches against Austin and Vince were fun as hell and his best PPV work of the year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Hunter/Foley Royal Rumble 2000 alone is better than anything 1999 as a whole has to offer from an in ring standpoint.


I really don't like that match. I heard nothing but good things about it on here and other boards then I watched it a few weeks ago and was disappointed beyond words. I think the problem is the completely DEAD crowd. What a disappointment for Madison Square Garden. I think they were even chanting "Boring" when Foley/HHH were brawling by the alleyway-looking entrance ramp. The cell match is a million times better. A crowd really affects hardcore matches IMO. If there aren't some "Holy shit!" chants when someone gets their face planted into a bunch of tacks, then it really ruins the shock value.


----------



## justice4joepa (Jul 14, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Orton/HBK - ****1/4
> Undertaker/Batista - ****1/4
> 
> Don't remember loving anything else from the event.


Watch the MITB opener then. Sure, it's not on par with the Benoit original, but it's in the same league as the ones on the MITB PPVs.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I really don't like that match. I heard nothing but good things about it on here and other boards then I watched it a few weeks ago and was disappointed beyond words.


Maybe because you were probably expecting a spotty kurt angle style match. 



> I think the problem is the completely DEAD crowd. What a disappointment for Madison Square Garden. I think they were even chanting "Boring" when Foley/HHH were brawling by the alleyway-looking entrance ramp.


Not true. Crowd wasnt dead last time I watched and there were no boring chants. Is this before the rock knocking HHH out with a chair spot you're talking about?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Vyed said:


> Maybe because you were probably expecting a spotty kurt angle style match.
> 
> Not true. Crowd wasnt dead last time I watched and there were no boring chants. Is this before the rock knocking HHH out with a chair spot you're talking about?


Maybe. Don't know what Angle has in common with Foley, though. It was a bit too slow for the typical Foley match, most of which I have loved. As for the crowd, they make some noise for like 5 seconds but only when Foley does that "Bang bang" taunt or brings out something like the barbwire bat.

And yes, that's the spot I was talking about. Lawler even tries to cover up for the "boring" chants by saying they're chanting "Foley" (which they did later on but at a faster pace compared to "Booooooooooring"). I also watched the Rumble match earlier this week and the crowd was equally silent for most of it, until The Rock's arrival brought some life into them.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> *I really don't like that match*. I heard nothing but good things about it on here and other boards then I watched it a few weeks ago and was disappointed beyond words.




Blasphemy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Foley/HHH is both men's best match ever imo. *****, and easily my favorite HHH match ever. I might even watch it later tonight before MITB.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Hunter vs Foley in that street fight is one of the best matches in wwe history. deserves the full set of stars in my opinion.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anybody got snowflakes for Unforgiven '01? I keep seeing it online rather cheap. Wondering if it's a good show. I think I ordered it when it happened but I can't remember shit.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

wasn't there a title match between angle and austin?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

justice4joepa said:


> Watch the MITB opener then. Sure, it's not on par with the Benoit original, but it's in the same league as the ones on the MITB PPVs.


Did I miss part of the convo?



Brye said:


> Anybody got snowflakes for Unforgiven '01? I keep seeing it online rather cheap. Wondering if it's a good show. I think I ordered it when it happened but I can't remember shit.


4 way tag match - **
Saturn Vs Raven - *
Edge Vs Christian - **1/2
BOD Vs Kronik - :lmao
RVD Vs Jericho - ****
Rock Vs Booker T & Shane - **
Tajiri Vs Rhyno - ***
Austin Vs Angle - ****1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I really don't like that match. I heard nothing but good things about it on here and other boards then I watched it a few weeks ago and was disappointed beyond words. I think the problem is the completely DEAD crowd. What a disappointment for Madison Square Garden. I think they were even chanting "Boring" when Foley/HHH were brawling by the alleyway-looking entrance ramp. The cell match is a million times better. A crowd really affects hardcore matches IMO. If there aren't some "Holy shit!" chants when someone gets their face planted into a bunch of tacks, then it really ruins the shock value.





Choke2Death said:


> And yes, that's the spot I was talking about. Lawler even tries to cover up for the "boring" chants by saying they're chanting "Foley" (which they did later on but at a faster pace compared to "Booooooooooring"). I also watched the Rumble match earlier this week and the crowd was equally silent for most of it, until The Rock's arrival brought some life into them.


I'm pretty sure they were chanting "Foley."

Also 'holy shit' can go fuck itself. cheer the face and boo the heel, don't pop for every big move just because it's a big move. They wanted Foley to win so there'd be no reason for them to chant something asinine when he's about to get 3-counted. And honestly, it was a surprisingly tame and pro-babyface crowd for New York.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

MITB:
Punk/Bryan - ****3/4
WWE Title MITB - **3/4

Woke up from a nap halfway through the PPV and missed the WHC MITB and Sheamus/Del Rio.


----------



## LariatSavage (Aug 10, 2010)

Yeah, Money in the Bank 2012 wasn't the greatest. I did enjoy both title matches, a lot. 

WWE Money in the Bank 2012 Review


----------



## RedCarrot (Jul 16, 2012)

Punk/Bryan - ***3/4
SD MITB - ***1/2
Raw MITB - **3/4
Sheamus/Del Rio - **1/2

Roll on Summerslam


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I'll probably be in the minority here, but thought that Punk/Bryan tonight was significantly more enjoyable than their OTL match.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*First take
Money in the bank 2012*

SD Mitb - **** 1/2*
Sheamus vs Del Rio - *****
Primetime Players vs Primo and epico - ****
Cm Punk vs Daniel Bryan - ***** 1/4*
Ryback vs Hawkins and reks - ** 1/4*
Divas 6 man tag – *who cares*
Raw Mitb - *****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WHC MITB - ***3/4
Sheamus/Del Rio - **1/2
PTP/Primepico - **1/2
Punk/Bryan - ****1/2
Raw MITB - ***

Fun show.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

WHC MITB - ***1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio - **
Punk/Bryan - ***1/2
Raw MITB - **1/4


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

CM PUNK: BEST IN THE WORLD

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/CM-Punk-Best-in-the-World-Blu-ray-2-Discs.html

*Disc 1*

A New Day

Spaceboy

Backyard Fame

Taking to the Road

Launching Pad

Constantly Learning

Dark Cloud

Not the Prototype

Outcast Champion

Having Fun

A Challenge

Saving Society

Frustrated Beyond Belief

Hometown High-Pressured Situation

The MAN

Special Features

High School Sports 

CM Punk – the Name 

Skull Fracture 

OVW vs. Albright 

From Extra to Champion 

December to Dismember 

1st Impressions 
In-Ring Style 

It’s Clobbering Time 

The Hat 

“The Most Insulting Thing You Could Say To Me” 

A Conversation with Lars 

Title in the Fridge 

Natalie’s T-Shirt 

“Teenage Anarchist” 

Finals Match in the OVW World Heavyweight Championship Tournament 
Brent Albright vs. CM Punk
Ohio Valley Wrestling 1st March, 2006 

CM Punk vs. Justin Credible
ECW 1st August, 2006

ECW Championship Last Chance Match 
CM Punk vs. John Morrison
ECW 4th September, 2007

Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Chris Jericho vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. John Morrison vs. Carlito vs. CM Punk vs. MVP vs. Mr. Kennedy 
WrestleMania XXIV 30th March, 2008

World Tag Team Championship Match
CM Punk & Kofi Kingston vs. Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase 
RAW 27th October, 2008

No Disqualification Match for the Intercontinental Championship
CM Punk vs. William Regal
RAW 19th January, 2009


*Disc 2*

Tables, Ladders, and Chairs Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk 
SummerSlam 23rd August, 2009

Rey Mysterio Joins the SES vs. CM Punk’s Hair
Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk 
Over the Limit 23rd May, 2010

WWE Championship Match
John Cena vs. CM Punk 
Money in the Bank 17th July, 2011

WWE Championship Match
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho
WrestleMania XXVIII 1st April, 2012

WWE Championship Match
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan 
Over the Limit 20th May, 2012

Blu-ray Exclusive Content

No Plan B 

Saxophone 

Easter Greeting 

Chicken Wings and Apple Pie 

Most Recognizable Tattoo 

Fish Tattoo 

Traveling with Ace 

No Microphone 

ECW Arena Match 

Hanging with Eddie Guerrero 

Trainer 

Driving Away With the Title 

Wrestling Camp 

“They’re Gonna Hate Me” 

Six People, One Room 

I’m a Paul Heyman Guy 

The Marathon 

@CMPunk 

The Bus Tour

Kofi’s Challenge 

WrestleMania Day 

A Day at the Ball Field 

True Respect 

Finals Match in the Intercontinental Championship Tournament
Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk 
Armageddon 14th December, 2008


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Dissapointed at the lack of matches but whats there is good.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer really impressed with punks DVD contents, and I'm guessing he picked all his matches, because they r basically all his best and biggest matches of his career.
This is a must buy for me


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Little disappointed with Punk's dvd due to the uber amounts of repeats and just one match on the blu ray extras. I can understand the match choices though, all seemed to be high points in his career. Love the OVW addition too. I'll just wait for the best PPV matches of 2012 to get the matches against Jericho & Bryan.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> And yes, that's the spot I was talking about. Lawler even tries to cover up for the "boring" chants by saying they're chanting "Foley" (which they did later on but at a faster pace compared to "Booooooooooring"). I also watched the Rumble match earlier this week and the crowd was equally silent for most of it, until The Rock's arrival brought some life into them.


They WERE CHANTING "Foley". It wasnt boring chants.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

MITB 2012

SD MITB ***3/4*
Fella/Del Rio: didn't watch
Punk/Bryan: ****3/4* So anticlimactic at the end 
Raw MITB: *****

It was okay, glad i didn't stay up though.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

I am looking forward to the Punk documentary itself, but like other people said before, I'm also disappointed by the (BR) extras. I'd rather have TV Matches as extras than PPV matches.


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

This CM Punk DVD looks pretty good. However, I think they are missing some pretty good matches, like the one against Cena on Raw in Ottawa. They should've included some Raw or Smackdown matches as Blu-ray extras, since PPV matches are easy to find.

I'm much more interested by the documentary. Cannot wait to watch this.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

WM25 on Blu-ray is this weeks Wild Wednesday.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

chargebeam said:


> This CM Punk DVD looks pretty good. However, I think they are missing some pretty good matches, like the one against Cena on Raw in Ottawa. *They should've included some Raw or Smackdown matches as Blu-ray extras, since PPV matches are easy to find.*
> 
> I'm much more interested by the documentary. Cannot wait to watch this.


Exactly, TV matches are better 'extras' than PPV matches on a DVD/BR.

*Btw*: the *WCW Championship match on the Nov. 5 2001 RAW *edition between Jericho and Rock hasn't been released on any DVD/BR set right?


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Does Punks DVD have his entire shoot promo?
—-----------------------

Money In The Bank

Wasn't really looking forward to this one that much, but it exceeded my expectations a bit. The crowd was pretty good throughout and it really helped this PPV.

World Heavyweight Championship.Money in the Bank

Pretty good match to start. Only ones I didn't like in this match were Tenasai and Santino. I mean being scared of heights is ok, but I HATE that cobra shit, BUT I digress. Obviously, a spot fest but a pretty good one, they didn't spend the whole match setting up shit they just bumped all around the ring which is good. Nice to see Sandow has some heat. Funny how he's been featured MUCH less than Tensai, yet he has MUCH more heat. I thought Cody was going to win (and feared Santino would), but rightfully Dolph won and the crowd was awesome for this too. .I like the shot they showed of Vickie when he won and you can see the crowd behind her celebrating behind her. Dolph said it best it's about damn time.

Rating: ***1/2

Favorite Spot: Either Ziggler getting KILLED when Tensai tossed him over the announce table, Jason the red Power Ranger, Er..... Sin Cara revisiting last year and getting the Wellness policy bomb on the ladder, or the crowd chanting "Let's go Dolph".

World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus(c) vs. Alberto Del Rio

Honestly wasn't looking forward to this, but the crowd really got me into it. It was actually pretty good. I may not like Sheamus as a champ ( Not his fault, his reign was in the shitter immediately thanks to creative) he has a good moveset. For once, Del Rio' s offense wasn't INSANELY boring, and actually pretty interesting. Good old school chemistry here, work the arm for the finisher. Sheamus sells better that most big guys. The only problem here ( and it's a big one) is everybody and there mother knew Sheamus would retain due to the monster he's been. But still decent match ( by the way, I hate white noise, makes him look like a Finlay wannabe, what happened to the high cross, I thought that was a good alternative).

Rating: ***

Favorite Spot: The counter of the shoulder block into ADR's Armbreaker was cool.

Gotta mention the aftermath, I kinda thought the attack was just to keep the feud alive, only because MITB happened right before this. Was pretty awesome how the crowd started chanting for Dolph. When his music hit that reaction might have been the best of the night. Goosebumps. ADR costing him it was a nice touch, and *gasp* a throwback to something that didn't happen last week! I didn't know such things existed in WWE! Good segment..

Primo/Epico vs. The Primetime Players

Would it be too hard to announce this match beforehand? God, I hate these "bonus matches"? Oh well, pretty good tag. I'm actually a tad bit mixed on the AW commentary thing. Don't get me wrong, I think it's hilariously awesome, BUT I think it takes some of the heat from the match. Case in point, when Primo made the hot tag, the crowd barely noticed. Still pretty good match and *double gasp* a feud between a tag team that doesn't involve the title. To be fair this the only match where the winner surprised me.

Rating: **1/2

Favorite Spot: Was inclined to give it to AW yelling: SHUT UP, ROSA! But that gut buster spot with Young and Primo at the end was pretty cool. Looks like Young and O'Neal have improved quite a bit since their inaugural NXT seasons.

WWE Championship
CM Punk(c) vs. Daniel Bryan
Special Guest Ref: AJ

Honestly, I can't stand this AJ angle. For a few reasons. First off, they really made Daniel Bryan's character a guy that only says "YES!" In fact, if you asked say Kevin Dunn, "What is Daniel Bryan's gimmick?" he would say,.
"Oh he's the guy who says YES a lot" That's like if they made the Rock the guy who says, If you smell a lot. Dont get me wrong I like the chants but WWE is like the nerdy kid a school who hears something cool, so he starts doing to death hoping that he'll subsequently end up being cool, but ends up killing it. Granted the last week or so, Bryan's gone back to being the manipulative psychopath he should have been. Second, AJ. Listen, I like AJ Lee and she's done well in her role. But, in WWE's mind it's the AJ show with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, while everybody else sees it as it actually is CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, with guest star AJ. The funny thing is the only people in WWE who dont care who AJ chooses are Bryan and Punk, the two men she can choose! Punk's already said he doesnt like AJ that way and Bryan just wants the belt. So, WWE made it seem like it was more important who AJ chose then who was WWE Champion. Which is a shame, because this was a damn good match.

It was a unique mix of technical mastery and hardcore brawling. They only used three weapons but it worked. I've heard Daniel Bryan say before that he hates hardcore matches where you have to set up spots and that's seems to be evident here. I also like that when AJ got knocked out, Bryan beat the shit out of Punk and THEN checked on AJ. Little touches like that show why these guys are in my opinion the two best workers in the company. I did like AJ bringing in the chair, and the two racing for it. Bryan kicking out of the GTS was a genuine surprise for me and really liked the ending particularly the importance of not going through the table. The finish was also kind of a throwback to how the two went through the table a few weeks ago, but did the commentary point this out? Of course not! My two biggest gripes have nothing to do with the two guys in the ring. One, the commentary. My god I hate Cole and Lawler. Whether its Cole's endless shilling of catchphrases, social media, or story lines like we're idiots who will forget if we're not reminded every 30 seconds or Lawler's obvious (and often stupid) biased toward faces. Hell, Cole in 2007 was more subtle with his face love then Lawler. Also, they REALLY killed this whole AJ thing. At the end of the match, the commentary talked all about how AJ didn't choose either one of them. I don't think i heard the words "WWE Championship" said once. Is it more important that Punk retained the title, or that AJ chose him? Did Bruno Sammartino hold AJ for 7 years? Did Hogan slam Andre to retain AJ? Did CM Punk almost walk out of the company last year with AJ? My god. Also, Lawler said that AJ didn't like the endng because she didn't decide. I'm not even invested in the storyline and I can tell you that wasn't true. She didn't like the brutality of the match, that's why she was upset. You know its a good storyline when your commentator is confused. Second, the camera missed at least three spots showing AJ's facial (heh) expressions. 


Rating: ****1/4 could've been higher

Favorite Spot: The kendo stick LeBell lock spot.

Review the rest later.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I sure want that Punk DVD set. Pretty sweet what's on there.

Some of the match listing works for me because I don't bother buying WWE PPV events on DVD now (and sold them). 

The docs and match sets from the 'E is what I rather own now. So it's all good. 

Real happy that his Mania match with Jericho (so much better than their boring street fight at Extreme Rules) and Over The Limit goodness with Bryan is on there. Hell, I want to see it more for his match with Regal on Raw that don't remember them having.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I like the listing for the Punk DVD because it has a few important matches that I didn't want to buy the show for. (Y)

Plus the DOC.



> Finals Match in the OVW World Heavyweight Championship Tournament
> Brent Albright vs. CM Punk
> Ohio Valley Wrestling 1st March, 2006
> 
> ...


Is it me or is that a really short disc?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*William Regal v Dean Ambrose II- The Final Encounter*

EVERYONE go watch this like asap. Such a wonderfully constructed match paying homage to the entire focus of the feud, and a brilliantly extended opening with Regal torturing Ambrose with some of the nastiest holds I've seen inside a WWE ring. It all builds and builds with you not believing that Ambrose will be put away despite the disgusting abuse of his left arm (the same arm that Regal dislocated 1 year ago), and the moment where he catches Regal off guard and becomes the aggressor is just amazing. Regal sells everything in such a legit way you actually question if he may actually be legit fucked, Ambrose popping his shoulder back into place before going on the offensive was just such an awesome little character quirk and the way he hovers over a defenceless Regal has this really eerie atmosphere where you feel like you're about to watch a man be endlessly abused without any ability to stop the agony. Ambrose working over a BLOODY EAR of Regal like a vicious pitbull was totally awesome, and the extended selljob of Regal appearing to be on his last legs only to pull off one little moment of genius to catch Ambrose off guard was such a superb 'veteran' spot. The whole ending could be divisive, but just consider this: the whole feud was about Regal acknowledging Ambrose possessed the Regal esque viciousness to end his career, and yet the sick bastard wanted to fight him because to walk away and hide from such a beating was just not in his nature. The entire build throughout the match culminating in the ending was what this feud had built up to: Ambrose having Regal in a scarily vulnerable position and having his career in his hands. Go into the match with that ideology and I can't see you hating the finish. It really couldn't have been executed much better. And the final bit of action (you'll know it when you see it) was just the absolute embodiment of the clash of characters and the definitive ending to this absolutely stupendous long term angle.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Brye said:


> I like the listing for the Punk DVD because it has a few important matches that I didn't want to buy the show for. (Y)
> 
> Plus the DOC.
> 
> ...


The OVW and ECW matches were TV main events I think so are like 15-22ish minutes in total I would think. The wrestlemania match is only 14 minutes. I dont know the rest. It does seem pretty short really



> Disc 3
> 
> Tables, Ladders, and Chairs Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
> Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk
> ...


Disc 3 is looking awesome


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Wait, the Punk set is only 2 discs? Oh.


Huganomics said:


> I'll probably be in the minority here, but thought that Punk/Bryan tonight was significantly more enjoyable than their OTL match.


Oh, absolutely it was.


Brye said:


> WHC MITB - ***3/4
> Sheamus/Del Rio - **1/2
> PTP/Primepico - **1/2
> Punk/Bryan - ****1/2
> ...


SD match - fun, botchy (thanks Sin Cara)
Sheamus/Del Rio - boring as all fuck
Tag match - lol @ the dance off between Rosa and whatsisname. Everything else was entirely forgettable
Ryback match - at least they seem to be going somewhere with it
Divas - okay, although it's a shame they can't end these types of matches with anything BUT the all-in clusterfuck
Punk/Bryan - Pretty good
RAW match - ...

Lukewarm PPV all round.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> *William Regal v Dean Ambrose II- The Final Encounter*
> 
> EVERYONE go watch this like asap. Such a wonderfully constructed match paying homage to the entire focus of the feud, and a brilliantly extended opening with Regal torturing Ambrose with some of the nastiest holds I've seen inside a WWE ring. It all builds and builds with you not believing that Ambrose will be put away despite the disgusting abuse of his left arm (the same arm that Regal dislocated 1 year ago), and the moment where he catches Regal off guard and becomes the aggressor is just amazing. Regal sells everything in such a legit way you actually question if he may actually be legit fucked, Ambrose popping his shoulder back into place before going on the offensive was just such an awesome little character quirk and the way he hovers over a defenceless Regal has this really eerie atmosphere where you feel like you're about to watch a man be endlessly abused without any ability to stop the agony. Ambrose working over a BLOODY EAR of Regal like a vicious pitbull was totally awesome, and the extended selljob of Regal appearing to be on his last legs only to pull off one little moment of genius to catch Ambrose off guard was such a superb 'veteran' spot. The whole ending could be divisive, but just consider this: the whole feud was about Regal acknowledging Ambrose possessed the Regal esque viciousness to end his career, and yet the sick bastard wanted to fight him because to walk away and hide from such a beating was just not in his nature. The entire build throughout the match culminating in the ending was what this feud had built up to: Ambrose having Regal in a scarily vulnerable position and having his career in his hands. Go into the match with that ideology and I can't see you hating the finish. It really couldn't have been executed much better. And the final bit of action (you'll know it when you see it) was just the absolute embodiment of the clash of characters and the definitive ending to this absolutely stupendous long term angle.



Yeah watch this. Regal's still awesome. I'm probably gonna watch more 06 Regal tomorrow due to it which can only be a good thing.


Segunda did you see Ambrose/Rollins for the FCW title a few weeks ago? might be 6/24 but im awful w/ dates. I think I probably like it more than Ambrose/Regal II because Ambrose's performance in it is fairly great (Rollins is no slouch either) and Regal on commentary adds so much in terms of how he evolves as the match goes on.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nah its on a list of things I want to watch to catchup with, pretty sure I saw your review of it somewhere (might have the wrong match or a different poster, but I'm sure I've seen some FCW in the 2012 MOTYC thread).


----------



## Dan the Tank05 (Jun 13, 2011)

*what a squash match! Del Rio Vs. Ryder? of course Del Rio won in like 2-3 minutes!


HOLY SHIT!!! REY MYSTERIO IS BACK!!!*

*i was not expecting Mysterio! he was the last person i thought would come out!*

*OMG! Slater is freaking arrogant!*


----------



## Dan the Tank05 (Jun 13, 2011)

*just thought of an epic Tag Team.............

Sin Cara and Mysterio!!!*


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*WHC MITB* - ***3/4
*Sheamus/Del Rio* - ***
*PTP/Primo & Epico* - **
*Punk/Bryan* - ***3/4
*Ryback* - *
*Divas* - 1/2*
*WWE MITB* - ***


----------



## LariatSavage (Aug 10, 2010)

I need to attend more live shows...

Raw Episode 999 Live Review

Looking forward to going to SummerSlam next month!


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

MITB 2012

WHC MITB: ***1/4
Sheamus/Del Rio ***
Tag **
Bryan/Punk ***1/2
Ryback/Reks&Hawkins *1/2
Divas *1/2
RAW MITB ***

Really underwhelming show overall.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Has anyone got any opinions on the "Randy Orton: The Evolution of a Predator" DVD. Its cheap on Silvervision and i like Orton. Is it similar to the Batista set in the way it talks about his life on disc 1? 

Thanks.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*William Regal vs Dean Ambrose (FCW; 2012/06/07)*
_I'm really split about this match. On one hand, it felt like an old-school angle from the territories and on the other hand it felt a tad boring and a lot of the stuff in the beginning didn't go any where. The opening five minutes featured Regal wrenching on Ambrose arm and it didn't really go anywhere unless you want to count that cool little callback spot to their last match when Regal had Ambrose's arm trapped in the steel steps, much like when Ambrose did this to Regal in the first match. I did love Ambrose's dissection of Regal's ear and it was honestly quite hard to watch. Regal sold it beautifully, flopping around and putting on comebacks like Ted DiBiase in Mid-South circa 1985. I hope I wasn't the only one who thought the ending fell flat. It could of been the dead crowd, but I didn't really 'feel' like Ambrose was a psychopath. Still, it's a good little match and recommend viewing to anyone who loved the first match. _
*Rating: ***1/4*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't think you can say it went nowhere, Regal clearly went out to further weaken the arm he tore up a year ago and focused repeately on it throughout his control, to the point where it dominated his entire offence (even the exploder suplex had the arm trapped for Ambrose to fall onto). Then Ambrose in a blink of an eye managed to take control with one move, leave Regal concussed and then toyed with him until Regal could stand no more. If they'd have wrestled 15 minutes longer and had Regal make a comeback and ignore the arm then you could say it was ignored, as it was Regal never got a chance to complete his work because Ambrose's transition spot fucked him up and rendered him practically immobile. And Ambrose sold all the armwork terrificly to signify its damage and purpose, and again it tied in on a psychological level with Regal taunting Ambrose about the injury he inflicted upon him the last time they wrestled.

I also found the finish captivating, you didn't need a prolonged beatdown there. It was like the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the teased violence was enough that you didn't need an extended gorefest, Ambrose having Regal bloodied and barely conscious whilst showing no signs of letting up was what the entire feud had built to and made you think Regal was about to be destroyed before your eyes. And of course, Ross and Rhodes made sure to signify the threat Ambrose posed without him even really doing much, it was just perfect.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rewatched MITB 2012 last night.

Smackdown MITB: ***** This was a mess. botches everywhere to be seen.
Sheamus/Del Rio: ***3/4* Typical super Sheamus match.
Primo&Epico/PTP: **3/4*
Punk/Bryan: ****1/2* ending was so rushed and felt anti climactic.
Ryback/Reks&Hawkins: *SQUASH* I hate Ryback.
Divas: *Who cares?*
Raw MITB: ***** I think i'm in the minority that think this was better (just barely) than the SD MITB, it was fun with Show & Jericho owning the match.

Okay event, just expected a bit more if honest.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Shaun_27 said:


> Has anyone got any opinions on the "Randy Orton: The Evolution of a Predator" DVD. Its cheap on Silvervision and i like Orton. Is it similar to the Batista set in the way it talks about his life on disc 1?
> 
> Thanks.


I didn't watch the Batista set so I can't comment on that but I enjoyed the Randy Orton set. The documentary involves some kayfabe spots, but otherwise it's very insightful and interesting and Randy really opens up about his demons. It's a good watch. They get comments from Triple H, his wife Samantha, Batista, etc. in the "evolution" of Randy Orton. I'd recommend it for sure.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> I didn't watch the Batista set so I can't comment on that but I enjoyed the Randy Orton set. The documentary involves some kayfabe spots, but otherwise it's very insightful and interesting and Randy really opens up about his demons. It's a good watch. They get comments from Triple H, his wife Samantha, Batista, etc. in the "evolution" of Randy Orton. I'd recommend it for sure.


Thank you.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton's doc is great. I really enjoyed watching it and they go into a lot of heavy shit too. I'm an Orton mark but I think even non-Orton fans would find it interesting.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I need to watch the Orton doc. I've seen that it's on netflix. No excuse for me not to.

Recent SNOWFLAKES.

SD MITB: ***3/4
Punk/Bryan - ****1/2
Primo/Epico vs PTP - **3/4
Raw MITB - **3/4
Punk/Show (Raw last night) - ***

Umaga/Cena (Royal Rumble) - STILL FIVE STARS~!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck, it happened again. Did I full write up and my computer decided to crash... Fuck it, here are the STARZZZ !

*Triple H PPV Matches : WM 23-WM 24*

SS 07 vs King Booker- : *** 1/4*
Unf 07 vs Carlito- : *** 1/4*
No Mercy 07 vs Randy Orton : *** 3/4*
NM 07 vs Umaga : *** 1/2*
NM 07 vs Randy Orton : ***** 1/4*
CS 07 vs Umaga- : **** 3/4*
SS 07 Elimination Tag- : *** 3/4*
ARM 07 vs Jeff Hardy : **** 3/4*
NWO 08 Elimination Chamber : ***** 1/4*
WM 24 vs John Cena vs Randy Orton : **** 1/2*

Run these down fairly quickly... Both the SS 07 and UNF 07 matches seemed a little uninspired, but I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for them, as they feature flashes of typical Trips intensity from time to time. They certainly aren't BAD matches like many people claim them to be. They were exactly what they needed to be ; Matches to help Trips get back in his groove again. They were decent enough , but they aren't great matches at all.

The No Mercy series was insanely fun (If you're a Trips fan that is  ). The opener against Orton was a VERY hot match and Trips winning with the roll up made alot of sense as it looks like Trips has CAUGHT Orton, instead of decisively beating him. Just a hot opener in every sense of the word with some crisp wrestling as well. The Umaga match was a short, Raw main event type match with a simple story and some good psychology, definitely average..I personally LOVE the match, but it's average. The LMS is fucking awesome, but it isn't even the best LMS of the year. A classic in every sense of the word ; The intensity is off the charts, the psychology and storytelling are both there, and there are some legitimately awesome spots in it that nicely wrap it up.

Nobody talks about the awesome Streetfight between Trips and Umaga..EVER. These two beat the fuck out of each other for 18 minutes straight with some great spots and some good action. There was a severe lack of drama that held the match back, but this was an underrated Streetfight between a highly underrated worker, and one of the best gimmick match workers of all time. Highly recommended, as it's a near classic from Trips that again.. NOBODY talks about.

The Survivor Series tag was GOOD, but definitely not GREAT. Rey was awesome as always, and Trips did a really good job of making the other team atleast look a little credible, but there was little to no drama in this one. The wrestling was good and it was cool to see Hunter duke it out with the likes of Finlay and others, but there was just something missing here that I'm not sure what it is. Definitely worth checking out, but nothing special at all.

Armageddon 07 match vs Jeff was fucking awesome for what it was, because personally I can't stand Jeff whatsoever. This is IMO Jeff's 3rd best singles match (we'll get to number one later on  ) because it tells a better story than any of his matches ever did. He needs to stop being Hunter's friend and FIGHT, and once Jeff unleashes his inner beast this match becomes absolutely awesome. This match features one of the most intense slaps I've ever seen, as it seemed like a very stiff match between two supposed friends. The surprise ending is nice because Jeff wasn't ready to get a fully fledged victory of HHH at that point in his career. Nobody helped Jeff get to where he was more than Hunter, NOBODY.

The Raw 08 Elimination Chamber is a top 5 EC of all time IMO, and right now only 3rd to NYR 05 and SS 02 in my book (still have plenty to rewatch). This was as star studded as you could get, as you had various fantastic layers of story added into the match, along with some killer spots/fantastic action, great psychology between some awesome workers, legit excitement, and of course the ending is fantastic as well with some breathtaking near falls. Trips performance is very solid but the MVP in my book would either have to go to Jericho or Michaels. Just an awesome match, a classic performance by all 6 men.

The WM 24 match was much better to me the last time I saw it. Don't get me wrong ; It's a great match with a great shock ending that gets people talking, but it just seems like there's something missing and I have no clue what it is. The pacing was off a little bit, but they compensated with some hard hitting moves, exciting moments, and perfectly executed spots. What we got was a Wrestlemania worthy title match that could have been so much better, but wasn't bad for what it was. Off to watch up to WM XXV now, wish me luck


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> I need to watch the Orton doc. I've seen that it's on netflix. No excuse for me not to.
> 
> Recent SNOWFLAKES.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Punk/Show was kind of out of nowhere. I was gonna skip it but I had a feeling that the match would be the setup for pipebomb #2 so I watched it. Even though it wasn't, I only realised at the end that it was actually pretty awesome. Agree with *** for it.

Speaking of the Royal Rumble, what's everyone's all time favourite matches from the PPV? 

Edge v Ziggler is THE ONE for me. Edge/Michaels, HHH/Foley, Cena/Umaga are also up there. The Hardys/Dudleys table match deserves a shout too I suppose, but I don't like it as much as the previous ones mentioned.


K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> The WM 24 match was much better to me the last time I saw it. Don't get me wrong ; It's a great match with a great shock ending that gets people talking, but it just seems like there's something missing and I have no clue what it is. The pacing was off a little bit, but they compensated with some hard hitting moves, exciting moments, and perfectly executed spots. What we got was a Wrestlemania worthy title match that could have been so much better, but wasn't bad for what it was. Off to watch up to WM XXV now, wish me luck


I agree, it's a good match but something always seemed off about that match to me. I think their 2009 triple threat was better, although I don't recall too well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I would say Cena/Umaga for me but Benoit/Jericho from '01 is close behind.

And KOK, the Raw '08 Chamber is my favorite of all time. Thought everything just went so well.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

OH, Benoit/Jericho. I completely forgot. That one would be my joint favourite, then.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Rumble PPV matches:

HBK vs Taker - 1998
Rock vs Mankind - 1999
Hardys vs Dudleys - 2000
HHH vs Foley - 2000
Jericho vs Benoit -2001
Angle vs Benoit - 2003
HBK vs HHH - 2004
Cena vs Umaga - 2007
Hardys vs MNM - 2007
Edge vs Hardy - 2009


Honorable mention for Edge vs Ziggler in 2011 & Jericho vs Rock in 2002.


I think the main problem for Rumble PPV matches is that most of the talent is in the rumble match itself and most of the other matches on the card are then handicapped by time restrictions. 

With a few exceptions, this means that it's usually only the title matches on the card which have enough time to develop into top quality matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Favourite Rumble stuff:

1. HHH v Steiner 03

the rest which obv does not compare to my glorious #1:

Rockers v Orients 91
Duggan/Harts v Rougeuas/Dino 89 (seriously nobody talks about this)
Owen/Anvil v Orients 92
Trip v Jack 00
Rude v Steamboat 88
The "Hey This is Actually a Really Good WWF Women's Tag" 88
Cena v Umaga 07
MNM v Hardys 07
Rock v Jericho 02
Benoit v Angle 03
Razor v Jarrett 95
Hart v Diesel 95
Quebecers v Bret & Owen 94
Hart v Taker 96
Benoit v Jericho 01

Some of that stuff I haven't seen in like three years, but I liked all of it quite a bit.


----------



## Dan the Tank05 (Jun 13, 2011)

*i am currently watch best PPV Matches of 2011. Disc One was good except for the Rey Mysterio Vs. Cody Rhodes match. it wasnt that great. the final match on disc 1 was Triple H Vs. Undertaker at wrestlemania 27. that was a good way to end that disc!*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Favourite Rumble stuff:
> 
> 1. HHH v Steiner 03
> 
> ...


I do! I love that match!


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

@Dan

^Extreme Rules? The one where they go out onto the concessions? Thought that one was a lot of fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My favorite Rumble match is Angle/Benoit 03 by far. I also love Benoit/Jericho, Cena/Umaga and Rock/Jericho.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best Rumble match for me is Benoit/Angle RR03, followed by Foley/HHH Street Fight.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll have to go with Benoit/Jericho as my favorite Rumble match. So much awesomeness.

And as far as Orton's doc goes, almost put me to sleep. So boring, never went in depth with much of anything, skipped so many important feuds in his career, and hardly even talked about _wrestling._ The marine stories were good though. Rest was pretty bad.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Favourite Rumble match would have to be HHH/Foley Street Fight, followed by Angle/Benoit 2003.
Both in my opinion are in the top 10 matches in WWE History and 5 Stars.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

My Triple H PPV Matches : WM 23-WM 24

SS 07 vs King Booker- : ** 
Unf 07 vs Carlito- : ** 1/4
No Mercy 07 vs Randy Orton : ** 1/2
NM 07 vs Umaga : ** 
NM 07 vs Randy Orton : **** 1/4
CS 07 vs Umaga- : *** 1/2
SS 07 Elimination Tag- : ***
ARM 07 vs Jeff Hardy : *** 3/4
NWO 08 Elimination Chamber : **** 
WM 24 vs John Cena vs Randy Orton : *** 1/2


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Any ratings for Royal Rumble & Elimination Chamber 2011?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Any ratings for Royal Rumble & Elimination Chamber 2011?


RR 2011:

Edge/Ziggler - **3/4 (people go WAY higher on this than me)
Miz/Orton - *1/2
Diva - 1/2*
RR Match - ****

EC 2011:

ADR/Kofi - **
SD EC - ***1/2
Miz/Lawler - **3/4
Raw EC - **3/4

I think there was a tag match too, didn't watch it though .


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

I remember people were legitimately saying Lawler should win the title......my goodness they were idiots.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Chris Benoit PPV matches: 2001*

RR Ladder Match vs. Jericho - ****1/2
NWO Four-Way vs. Jericho, Guerrero and X-Pac - ***
WM vs. Angle - ***1/2
Backlash vs. Angle Ultimate Submission - ****
JD 2/3 Falls vs. Angle - ***3/4
JD Tag Team Turmoil - ***3/4
KOTR vs. Austin vs. Jericho - ****1/4

This was Benoit's first great year, proving to everybody that he realy was one of the best in the world, staking his claim as one of, if not THEE best in-ring performer in North America. He had less matches than in 2000, but I'd choose this small set over last year's large set any day of the week. Other than the NWO four way and maybe the Wrestlemania match with Angle; every 2001 PPV match from Benoit is essential viewing for any wrestling fan, young or old. Despite the matches still being 11 years old, they still translate very well and would fit in with any era of professional wrestling, and I think that is a testament to Benoit and the people he worked with in 2001.. He also had some amazing TV matches as well, so I'd recommend checking any Chris Benoit matches, TV or PPV, from 2001.

It's a shame he wasn't around during the Invasion, he could have played a huge role in that, I think, with his story from WCW and whatever. He could have also have had some great matches with the likes of Van Dam, psycho Alliance-Austin, Booker T, DDP and Rhyno. 

Benoit in 2001 = thumbs up from me


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Caponex75 said:


> I remember people were legitimately saying Lawler should win the title......my goodness they were idiots.


I'd much rather have had Lawler as a champion than Miz. Would have been a nice moment for King to have won the belt, even if he dropped it the next night on Raw. Either way, Lawler > Miz.

Benoit 01:

RR Ladder Match vs. Jericho - ****
NWO Four-Way vs. Jericho, Guerrero and X-Pac - ***
WM vs. Angle - ***1/2
Backlash vs. Angle Ultimate Submission - ****1/2
JD 2/3 Falls vs. Angle - ***
JD Tag Team Turmoil - ***
KOTR vs. Austin vs. Jericho - ***

If anything I think his TV matches in 01 outshine his PPV matches for the most part. Raw and SD with Austin, tag titles match, TLC etc are all better than the majority of his PPV matches that year.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Caponex75 said:


> I remember people were legitimately saying Lawler should win the title......my goodness they were idiots.


Lawler shouldn't have won the title there and then, especially with Mania around the corner. But hell have that match during one of WWE's downtime periods (May-June, September-December) and I wouldn't have hated a short term feel good win for Lawler. Granted I'm a huge Lawler mark ring wise, but he's still as over as babyfaces get in WWE and would have worked a great 'Old man schooling the kids' reign for a month or two, and no doubt would have managed to work better matches than Miz, Orton or Barrett could muster for the belt during late 2010 and early 2011.

That match is still excellent though, gave Miz enough to look as good as he should against a veteran but gave Lawler enough that people just began to wonder, and of course Lawler worked some great 'Veteran' spots to try and make up for his ageing body. Finish and Cole's reaction by the announce table was also stupdendous.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Any ratings for Royal Rumble & Elimination Chamber 2011?


Edge/Ziggler - ***3/4
Orton/Miz - **3/4
Divas - ?
Rumble - ***1/2


Kofi/ADR - **1/2
Smackdown Chamber - ****
Miz/Lawler **1/2 - ***
RAW Chamber - *** (massively prediactable and nowhere near as good as the Smackdown one)

Neither one are exactly must see PPVs, you're much better off getting Best PPV Matches of 2011 to see Edge/Ziggler and the Smackdown Chamber.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2011

Edge vs Dolph Ziggler - *** 3/4
Miz vs Randy Orton - ** 3/4
Divas - Don't care
Rumble - *** 1/2

Eliminaion Chamber 2011

Alberto Del rio vs Kofi Kingston - ** 3/4
Smackdown Chamber - **** 1/4 top 3 chamber match ever as far as im concerned
Tag match - Don't care
Miz vs Jerry Lawler - ** 3/4
Raw Chamber - *** 3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2011:
Edge/Ziggler ***
The Miz/Orton **1/2
Divas four way *1/2
Rumble match ***1/2

Elimination Chamber 2011:
Alberto/Kofi ***
SD Chamber ***3/4
Miz/Lawler **1/2
Raw Chamber ***1/4


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/brock-lesnar-dvd-release-date-details/25397/

Brock Lesnar DVD news. Quite disappointed by it too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, I never bought 'Here comes the pain' so I may look closer at that when more details aee announced...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame there isn't a new documentary, but I guess given Lesnar's "don't give a fuck about the business" attitude and the fact WWE probably didn't want to pay him more money than they have to for the DVD, its not that surprising. Here Comes the Pain was an alright DVD, documentary was pretty good considering the time it came out and the matches were mostly good. Depending on what new matches they release on this set, it could be worth getting.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Idk what they'd even put on a new Lesnar set anyway. Maybe the Summerslam match with Kurt, a match against Taker, and his match this year againt Cena. Besides that Here Comes The Pain released all his major stuff and the Smackdown matches are limited since they're not gonna give us anything with Benoit in it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WWE.com does it again with another list! 

*REY MYSTERIO'S 10 GREATEST WWE MATCHES*

#1 Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho: The Bash (June 28, 2009)
#2 Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero: WrestleMania 21 (April 3, 2005) 
#3 World Heavyweight Championship Triple Threat Match: WrestleMania 22 (April 2, 2006)
#4 Rey Mysterio vs Shawn Michaels: Raw (Nov. 14, 2005)
#5 Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero: No Mercy (Oct. 8, 2006)
#6 World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match: No Way Out (Feb. 15, 2009)
#7 Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison: SmackDown (Sept. 4, 2009)
#8 Rey Mysterio vs. Sabu: ECW One Night Stand (June 11, 2006)
#9 2006 Royal Rumble Match: Royal Rumble (Jan. 29, 2006)
#10 Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk: Over the Limit (May 23, 2010)

Link - http://www.wwe.com/classics/classic-lists/rey-mysterio-greatest-matches


*MY list*

Rey Mysterio & Edge vs. Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle: No Mercy (October 20, 2002) - ***** 3/4*
Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero: Smackdown (June 23, 2005) - ***** 1/2*
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho: The Bash (June 28, 2009) - ***** 1/2*
Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison: SmackDown (Sept. 4, 2009) - ***** 1/2*
World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match: No Way Out (Feb. 15, 2009) - ***** 1/4*
Rey Mysterio & Edge vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit: Smackdown (November 07, 2002) - ***** 1/4*
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle: SummerSlam (August 25, 2002) - ******
Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton: Smackdown (April 7, 2006) - ******
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero: Great American Bash (June 27, 2004) - ******
Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman vs. Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Hass: Vengeance (July 27, 2003) - ******


I went for variety but these could easily be added:

Rey/Matt Hardy SD 06/05/03 - ****
Rey/Angle SD Japan 05 - ****
Rey/Eddie JD05 - **** 
Rey/Jericho JD09 - ****
Rey/Jericho ER09 - ****
Rey/Jericho SD 7/10/09 - ****

and others I'm probably forgetting something _really_ good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wow, WWE's list is HORRIBLE. Usually they kinda get the jist of things and just order things wrong. Not this time lol. My list (not in order except for the #1 match):

1. Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero - WWE Smackdown 23/06/2005
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - WWE Smackdown 09/11/2007
Rey Mysterio & Vs Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit - No Mercy 20/10/2002
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown 24/03/2006
Rey Mysterio Vs Jamie Noble – Velocity 01/05/2004
Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero - Great American Bash 24/07/2005
Rey Mysterio & Edge Vs Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit - Smackdown 07/11/2002 
Rey Mysterio Vs John Cena - Raw 25/07/2011
Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - No Way Out 19/02/2006
Rey Mysterio Vs Matt Hardy - Smackdown 05/06/2003


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Clique said:


> WWE.com does it again with another list!
> 
> *REY MYSTERIO'S 10 GREATEST WWE MATCHES*
> 
> ...


What an atrocious list, I mean christ chalk this up with booking as far as WWE screw ups go.

Where to start, #2 and #3 are laughable. The Wrestlemania match isn't even the 6/7th best match he had with Eddie, even more if we take in tags most likely. And the Wrestlemania triple threat is a legit terrible match, and the fact it got ahead of Eddie/Rey SD 2005, GAB 2005, Rey/Orton NWO 2006 and SD 2006, Rey/Henry SD 2006, Rey/Punk Armageddon 2008 and SD 2010, Cena/Mysterio Raw 2011 is just embarassing.

The Chavo NM match doesn't hold a candle to the GAB 2004 match.

The HBK match was again hardly anything special compared to what Mysterio is capable of putting out.

And The Sabu match.....trolling at its absolute finest with that one.

Jericho Bash match is good but not on the level of the Punk series IMO, put me in the camp who finds Punk a far more compelling worker than Jericho especially post 2008 heel turn Jericho. Guy is just so stale and seems to just have a very safe formula of signature spots and periodic restholds with little effort in between the moves to add anything to a match, luckily Rey has a style which is nye on impossible to fuck with and they managed to work some great callback spots as well as tease Rey's comeback superbly.

NWO 2009 Chamber match is one of his best performances and deserves its place, 2006 Royal Rumble match is most likely on there for historical purposes so I won't argue against it too much, but I doubt it would make my top 10 Mysterio matches in WWE.

I suppose the only saving grace is the No Mercy 2002 tag isn't on there, which legit shocks me given some of the other picks.

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot the Finlay SD matches and the Velocity Noble match. Some of his best work in the company and again unbelievable that it got left off for freaking Sabu and HBK matches.


----------



## justice4joepa (Jul 14, 2012)

Elimination Chamber 2011 could have been the PPV of the Year, but then something happened later that year in Chicago that left all other PPVs (WWE, TNA, UFC, the indies, etc.) in the dust.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I finally got a copy of Ric Flair: Ultimate Collection, had to get Region 1 as its OOP atm, I did look at the Definitive set but the match listing doesn't really impress me tbh, plus im sure the Ultimate one has a match with Windham on it...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ultimate set is AWESOME. AWESOME. MEGA AWESOME. SUPER MEGA AWESOME. TIMES A BILLION.

Windham match, the 2 best Steamboat 89 matches, FUNK, 1992 Royal Rumble (GOAT) and a super fun HHH match from 03 where Flair really gets back into his grove for the first time in almost a decade. God I love that set lol. :mark:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Some updates on the CM Punk DVD. He showed the DVD to a select few friends and some tweeted about it with updates:

*Colt Cabana: *Just watched the @CMPunk 3disk DVD. Not sure who was trying to UP their game more. Punk telling his stories or WWE's production #Amazing

*Marty DeRosa: *Lucky enough to see the upcoming @CMPunk DVD. It's the Dark Knight of @WWE DVD's. I was blown away and then laughed my ass off at the end. 

Tons of @ColtCabana @HeymanHustle @bakeanddestroy @TheCurtHawkins @TrueKofi @AmyDumas Ace Steel and Lars Frederiksen in the new @CMPunk DVD. 

“@Threejy: @MartyDeRosa @CMPunk Spoiler request: How much ROH is on there, or is WWE acting like ROH doesn't exist?” *Whole lot of ROH! *

A fan asks if there's any ROH matches, not just stories/footage, Marty says: *Punk vs Joe! Shhhh.*

Also read Cena and Triple H are interviewed for it. I'm fucking stoked.


----------



## justice4joepa (Jul 14, 2012)

How is the Definitive set not impressive? You get unreleased matches against Race and Kerry, plus the Bash against Terry and Spring Stampede against Steamboat, which are not available on other DVD. There's a super fun Horsemen tag match too, and the Piper match ain't too shabby.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Some updates on the CM Punk DVD. He showed the DVD to a select few friends and some tweeted about it with updates:
> 
> *Colt Cabana: *Just watched the @CMPunk 3disk DVD. Not sure who was trying to UP their game more. Punk telling his stories or WWE's production #Amazing
> 
> ...


That's awesome. (Y)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Punk vs. Joe? Punk vs. Hardy? Punk vs. Bryan? All on one DVD?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

No way Joe/Punk is actually on there. Even the shortest of the 3 is 40+ minutes, Vince would never agree to dedicate 1/4 of a disc to a match from a company he doesn't own with a guy who wrestles for his competition.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

To be honest, Disc 2 does look really small. Probably just getting my hopes up though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Whilst browsing Amazon, noticed Money In The Bank 2011 is a fiver atm, for those that may want it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bought myself WM 25 Bluray from SV with their Wild Wednesday offer. Got 24, 25, 26 and 27 on Bluray now. Will likely get WM 28 next year when its gone down in price .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, im too waiting for a WM28 price drop before I get it, still loads of DVDs I want before anyways!!

Ordered WM19 and Survivor Series 2002 earlier...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only really a couple of PPV's here and there that I want on DVD now. Then WM 28 on Bluray, then The Streak on Bluray. Maybe Punk's set (I'll download the doc first to see if its worth it). Thank god I'm not a collector that MUST have everything (hey Platt ), as really I'm not wanting for that many sets or anything atm .


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I was going to buy it but splashed out cash on a WWF Big Eagle Replica Belt instead. No idea why, it looked nice so I bought it.  I'm sure if the opportunity to pick up WM25 comes along again on Blu-Ray, I'll take the offer.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> Only really a couple of PPV's here and there that I want on DVD now. Then WM 28 on Bluray, then The Streak on Bluray. Maybe Punk's set (I'll download the doc first to see if its worth it). Thank god I'm not a collector that MUST have everything (hey Platt ), as really I'm not wanting for that many sets or anything atm .


 I really don't want the Cena/Rock set


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Then don't get it. Its only ONE small gap in your collection. I'm sure you can manage. With the knowledge that your collection can never be complete without it. Ever.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I'll get the DVD, I usually sell enough copies of sets to cover the costs of them anyway but I won't be getting the Blu-Ray till it's really cheap somewhere.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Despite watching wrestling since 1988, I have only just started to collect DVDs, only want to get the main essentials and some superstar/match sets, still have loads of Vhs's from the 90's lol.


----------



## justice4joepa (Jul 14, 2012)

I'll get Rock vs. Cena once we have an idea what the two will be doing for WM29. I see the sales numbers for it being the ultimate decision-maker for a rematch, which I'm not interested in since Rock's not getting any younger and I wanna see some more dream matches.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Bought myself WM 25 Bluray from SV with their Wild Wednesday offer. Got 24, 25, 26 and 27 on Bluray now. Will likely get WM 28 next year when its gone down in price .


I've bought it also, along with about 9 other Mania's 

Did you get the Blurays when they were a WW?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got 26 during a WW. Imported 27 from America... then got the UK version during a sale on another site. Bought 24 from ebay the first day they went OOP so I could get it cheap before everyone ramped up the prices. Then it came back into production anyway, but I still only paid like £4 for it.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Just checked ebay expecting to see ridiculous pricing for WM24 Bluray and picked it up for a whopping... £8.99 brand new 

Amazon has 27 for £8.70 new but cant find 26 at a good price


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah you can get it for normal prices still. Was only OOP for a couple of months due to some strange law thingy. I think it involved Mayweather.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WM24 is on my 'to get' list, can't believe its OOP after just 4 years, probably try eBay when I can.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Could've got it ages ago if i'd known... oh well i have it now


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Punk/Show on Monday was a solid little main event. *** - ***1/4. Punk is tremendous in David/Goliath matches.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Agreed once again Punk excelled in a David/Goliath role, not quiet as good as his matches with Henry but a little *** gem this week


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Agreed once again Punk excelled in a David/Goliath role, not quiet as good as his matches with Henry but a little *** gem this week


Punk and Bryan are the best at the small man vs Big man matches.

I just wanted to ask you guys are Bryan and Punk WWE's best two big match workers right now?

Its scary how great these guys matches since WM28 (apart from Bryans 18 second one) have been.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of Rey... We need a HHH-Rey match.. Like, RIGHT NOW. Rey proclaims HHH to be one of the 2 performers (The other being Stone Cold Steve Austin) that he wishes to compete against for the first time. I think at the very LEAST we'd get a great **** 1/2* matchup because of Rey's consistency, and if Hunter stepped up his game (pun intended) we'd get a fully fledged 4 plus.

Another thing that baffles me ; Why did Hunter vs Edge only take place at ONE PPV, let alone on a C level show that nobody really cared about. They could have had that at a major show such as Mania, Summerslam, or Survivor Series, because I felt that the Bash match between the two was pretty damn good. 

Which brings me to another little tidbit ; I like to keep up to tabs with how many ***** 1/2+* matches that take place per year, and this year IMO we already have FIVE. That's up from only THREE ***** 1/2+* matches that took place last year already. In 2010 we had ONE fucking match that was ***** 1/2+* IMO, and in 2009 we had TWO.. Fuck it, let's keep tabs on this now ;

2012 : *5 (WM Punk/Jericho HHH/Taker , ER Sheamus/Bryan Cena/Lesnar , OTL Bryan Punk)*
2011 : *3 (WM HHH/Taker , MITB Punk/Cena , SS Punk/Cena)*
2010 : *1 (WM HBK/Taker)*
2009 : *2 (WM HBK/Taker , Bash Rey/Jericho)*
2008 : *3 (WM Edge/Taker , SS Edge/Taker , NM Jericho/HBK)*
2007 : *2 (RR Cena/Umaga , WM Taker/Batista) *
2006 : *2 (NWO Angle/Taker , NM Regal/Benoit)*
2005 : *4 (NYR Chamber, WM MITB Angle/Michaels , VEN HHH/Batista)*
2004 : *3 (NWO Eddie/Lesnar , WM Triple Threat , BL Triple Threat)*
2003 : *3 (RR Angle/Benoit , WM Austin/Rock , SS Lesnar/Angle)*
2002 : *5 (VEN Triple Threat, SS HBK/HHH , NM Taker/Lesnar Tag Match , SS Chamber)*

Pretty DAMN impressive for a little over half of a year. This year has been more top heavy, with tons of inconsistency from just about 90 percent of the roster. I only did PPV matches of course because I can't go back and try to find all of the TV gems (for now anyways  ) so there are a few glaring omissions (I.E. Eddie/Rey from Smackdown 05).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

2012 : 2 (WM Punk/Jericho, OTL Bryan/Punk)
2011 : 1 (MITB Punk/Cena)
2010 : 1 (WM HBK/Taker)
2009 : 2 (WM HBK/Taker , Bash Rey/Jericho)
2008 : 1(SS Edge/Taker)
2007 : 3(RR Cena/Umaga , WM Taker/Batista, Cena/HBK Raw in London)
2006 : 2 (NWO Angle/Taker)
2005 : 2 (Angle/Michaels , VEN HHH/Batista)
2004 : 1 (WM Triple Threat)
2003 : 5 (RR Angle/Benoit , WM Austin/Rock , WM Y2J/HBK, Taker/Angle SD, Lesnar/Angle SD Ironman) *Crazy how Angle had two MOTYC in three weeks*
2002 : 5 (VEN Triple Threat, SS HBK/HHH , NM Taker/Lesnar, NM Tag Match , SS Chamber)

One thing I noticed while doing this is that I usually see a ***** every 3 years. Here are the matches I have at 5:

Punk/Bryan OTL 2012
Taker/HBK WM25 2009
Taker/Angle NWO 2006
Angle/Benoit RR03

... and guess what the last 5 star match is before that? Foley/HHH RR00... well it would be if not for Rock/Austin WM17. 

Nah, but that's still crazy. Because before that it's Austin/Bret WM13... 3 years before Foley/HHH. lol.

Guess I'm looking forward to 2015.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

hardyorton said:


> Punk and Bryan are the best at the small man vs Big man matches.
> 
> I just wanted to ask you guys are Bryan and Punk WWE's best two big match workers right now?
> 
> Its scary how great these guys matches since WM28 (apart from Bryans 18 second one) have been.


Without a doubt, Bryan and Punk are the best small man vs big man workers. 

And definitely the best big match wrestlers at the moment, the WWE finally gave them a chance to have some long matches on PPV and they really have excelled, Punk has been so consistent for the whole year since his infamous Promo. 

My ***** 1/2* stars PPV matches for each year of the last decade:
2012: *5* (*Punk/Jericho WM, Taker/HHH WM, Sheamus/Bryan ER, Cena/Brock ER, Punk/Bryan OTL*) 
2011: *4 *(*HHH/Taker WM, Orton/Christian OTL, Cena/Punk MITB, Cena/Punk SS*)
2010: *1* (*HBK/Taker WM*)
2009: *2* (*HBK/Taker WM, Mysterio/Jericho the Bash*)
2008: *3* (*Flair/HBK WM, Taker/Edge SS, HBK/Jericho NM*)
2007: *2* (*Cena/Umaga RR, HBK/Cena WM*)
2006:* 1* (*Taker/Angle NWO*)
2005: *4 *(*New Year’s Revolution Chamber, MITB WM, HBK/Angle WM, Batista/HHH VEN*)
2004: *4* (*Eddie/Brock NWO, HBK/HHH/Benoit WM, HBK/HHH/Benoit BAC, Orton/Foley BAC*)
2003: *3* (*Benoit/Angle RR, HBK/Jericho WM, Lesnar/Angle SS*) 
2002: *3* (*Edge&Rey/Benoit&Angle NM, HBK/HHH SS, Rock/Angle/Taker VEN*)

This year is already the best for ***** 1/2* star PPV matches of the decade in my view and surprisingly there is still 5 Pay per views left. This year is certainly shaping up as one of the best in ring years ever in my view.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Another thing that baffles me ; Why did Hunter vs Edge only take place at ONE PPV, let alone on a C level show that nobody really cared about. They could have had that at a major show such as Mania, Summerslam, or Survivor Series, because I felt that the Bash match between the two was pretty damn good.


I completely agree with you, especially with their lonegivity with the Company. They were both at that time 2 of the top stars, and they treated their feud as just a filler till Taker came back, for HIAC. I am really baffled as well that they never faced each other on a big stage, I really thought one of their feuds could of been a Wrestlemania or Summerslam headliner.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*2012:* HHH/Taker Wrestlemania, Jericho/Punk Wrestlemania, Bryan/Sheamus Extreme Rules, Cena/Lesnar Extreme Rules, Punk/Bryan OTL, 
*2011:* HHH/Taker Wrestlemania, CM Punk/John Cena MITB, Orton Christian OTL
*2010:* HBK/Taker Wrestlemania
*2009:* HBK/Taker Wrestlemania, Jericho/Rey The Bash, Punk/Hardy Summerslam
*2008:* HBK/Flair Wrestlemania, Taker/Edge Wrestlemania, HBK/Jericho (Unsanctioned Brawl)
*2007:* Cena/Umaga Royal Rumble, Taker/Batista Wrestlemania
*2006:* Angle/Taker NWO, Edge/Foley Wrestlemania, Regal/Benoit No Mercy, Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day
*2005:* NYR Elimination Chamber, MITB, Batista/HHH Vengeance, Smackdown/Raw Survivor Series
*2004:* Guerrero/Lesnar NWO, Wrestlemani Triple Threat, Orton/Foley Backlash
*2003:* Benoit/Angle Royal Rumble, Lesnar/Angle Wrestlemania
*2002:* Rock/Hogan Wrestlemania, Vengeance Triple Threat HBK/HHH Summerslam, Angle/Mysterio Summerslam, NM Tag Match, Lesnar/Taker HIAC, Survivor Series Chamber


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Weren't they originally going to do Edge Vs HHH at WM 25 and Orton Vs Cena? I seem to remember them kinda building up to that and then BAM, they switched it around to HHH/Orton and Cena/Edge/Big Show.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)




----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

I've been browsing eBay recently looking to expand my wrestling DVD/Blu-ray collection because those I own are mostly crappy stuff I got for cheap (with a few exceptions). I was wondering if you guys could help me build my collection by suggesting me DVDs you bought and like.

From all the DVDs I own, my favorite titles are the following:

x Best of Raw Vol. 1 & 2
x Rise + Fall of ECW
x Ladder Match 1 & 2
x Monday Night Wars
x McMahon
x Chris Benoit: Hard Knocks
x Stone Cold Steve Austin: the Bottom Line on the most-popular superstar...
x Survivor Series 2002
x Royal Rumble 2005

I wanted to buy the Money In the Bank 2011 PPV but I've decided not to. (Cause it's only on DVD format) I'll grab CM Punk's Blu-ray to get the match on higher-definition. Also, WWF Wrestlemania X-Seven looks impossible to get for cheaper than 60$, so I might never buy this one.

BTW, this CM Punk DVD cover looks pretty nice.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I watched that Benoit DVD a few weeks ago. Heartbreaking stuff when I look at how his name gets treated today. It's a complicated topic so I'm not gonna speak on it but just say that it's a great DVD that took me back to when he was alive and his name wasn't a taboo subject. And there's even Eddie Guerrero talking about how great their friendship is.

Also, I watched the F4W for the IC title at No Way Out 2001 yesterday and it was a solid ***3/4 to me. Fatal Four Ways are usually entertaining and this one is no different.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

> *Latest on WWE’s Planned nWo DVD for 2012 – Documentary Confirmed*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For years I wanted Hall/Nash/Outsiders DVD, but a full nWo documentary is even better. Can't wait for that. Especially now with Nash in the company. I hope they can film new footage of Hogan and Bischoff. 

They can choose 100 different segments. Matches, they can put Rock/Hogan, Hogan/Goldberg, Hogan/Luger Nitro 100, Outsiders matches, Nash/Hall HH 98 etc.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Weren't they originally going to do Edge Vs HHH at WM 25 and Orton Vs Cena? I seem to remember them kinda building up to that and then BAM, they switched it around to HHH/Orton and Cena/Edge/Big Show.


I think that's where they were headed but I wanted HHH/Jeff Hardy and Orton/Cena. Hardy could have had his big pay-off after his extensive chase in another great match with Hunter. While they could have expended on the Orton holding the show hostage with a lawsuit and Cena being the defender of the company. However, I did like the build they did with HHH/Orton but the triple threat just sucked.

WM25 would have been a better card with this

Orton/Cena World Title (main event)
HHH/Hardy WWE Title
Taker/HBK
Jericho/Mysterio IC Title (w/Steamboat in corner)
Edge/Big Show (over Vickie's 'love' I guess)
Divas Battle Royal (minus Santina & Kid Rock; plus Trish, Lita, entrances,and Women's Title)
MITB V
Colons/Miz & Morrison (open the show)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Punk DVD cover looks really good. (Y)

Edit: Completely agreed with Clique. I'd have loved to have seen Hardy/HHH at WM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> I watched that Benoit DVD a few weeks ago. Heartbreaking stuff when I look at how his name gets treated today. It's a complicated topic so I'm not gonna speak on it but just say that it's a great DVD that took me back to when he was alive and his name wasn't a taboo subject. And there's even Eddie Guerrero talking about how great their friendship is.
> 
> Also, I watched the F4W for the IC title at No Way Out 2001 yesterday and it was a solid ***3/4 to me. Fatal Four Ways are usually entertaining and this one is no different.


I watched some of the Benoit DVD earlier. The documentary (which is a pretty great doc) and then the Al Snow match (only put in the first disc lol). Despite only being a 2 disc set its filled with a bunch of really great matches and with the doc its probably one of the better superstar releases. Shame we won't get another, but I can understand why we won't. Might have to pick up a custom set at some point. When I have money. And I find a good one .


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

WM25's main event was supposed to be Hogan vs Cena IIRC, but before Hogan came back to TV to start the program, he had another back surgery and they just threw Cena to the Show/Edge/Vickie angle. 

WM25 would have been awesome with Hogan/Cena. And I honestly thought that they're going to do Orton/Vince at WM for the final payoff. 

Hogan/Cena(main event)
Orton/Vince 
Taker/HBK
Hardy/HHH WWE title 
Edge/Show WHC 
Jericho/Steamboat 
And a serious Rey Mysterio match. 

HUGE WM.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think a longer Rey/JBL match could have worked. Even though JBL wasn't in amazing shape, they had pretty strong matches in the past.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NWO: New World Order - imaginative title, I hope they don't just blend the wcw/monday night wars interviews together for this one, they could include the legends of wrestling: nwo episode with Nash,

Looking forward to the match selection, hostile takeover with full entrances?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rock316AE said:


> And a serious Rey Mysterio match.


Mysterio/Regal for the IC Title wouldn't have been bad either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not looking forward to match selection for the NWO set. Don't recall off the top of my head ANY NWO matches worth a damn. Sure, Hogan/Goldberg and Hogan/Luger are important matches for the title changes and shit, but they aren't good matches. And then there's... uhhh... that one match with thingy...

Actually I think I liked War Games 96. That's about it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

God, that Punk's DVD cover looks horrible, even more horrible than Punk himself.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Extreme Rules 2011
MITB 2011
No Way Out 2012
MITB 2012

WWE seriously needs to stop with the spoilerific covers!










The English cover for Punk's DVD.

*Re: Wrestlemania 25*

I think the show would've been better had they kept the original planned double main event of Cena Vs. Orton and Edge Vs. HHH before switching it around to swerve the IWC.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Clique said:


> WM25 would have been a better card with this
> 
> Orton/Cena World Title (main event)
> HHH/Hardy WWE Title
> ...


Wow, I never knew you hated Edge so much 

Built up, Edge v Christian would have been far, far better for that show. Or any big show, really. Gutted that the Christian feud was meant to be Edge's "victory lap" feud, but never ended up happening for obvious reasons :sad: There is that RAW match, but it's just not the same.


chargebeam said:


> I've been browsing eBay recently looking to expand my wrestling DVD/Blu-ray collection because those I own are mostly crappy stuff I got for cheap (with a few exceptions). I was wondering if you guys could help me build my collection by suggesting me DVDs you bought and like.
> 
> From all the DVDs I own, my favorite titles are the following:
> 
> ...


You should get the sets of any individual wrestler you like, like how you got SCSA's. 99% of those are good.

Any Wrestlemania. Wrestlemania XXIV is my favourite one I own, highly recommend.




JoeRulz said:


> God, that Punk's DVD cover looks horrible, even more horrible than Punk himself.




He doesn't look that bad...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock316AE said:


> WM25's main event was supposed to be Hogan vs Cena IIRC, but before Hogan came back to TV to start the program, he had another back surgery and they just threw Cena to the Show/Edge/Vickie angle.
> 
> WM25 would have been awesome with Hogan/Cena. And I honestly thought that they're going to do Orton/Vince at WM for the final payoff.
> 
> ...


Wasn't it actually supposed to be Cena/Batista but Batista got hurt? I don't remember hearing anything about Hogan/Cena at the time and thank fuck it didn't happen. What an utterly horrible sight that would have been.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Batista/Cena wasn't an option from December, then Hogan rumors started. 

Hogan/Cena would have been an awesome attraction to see IMO.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock316AE said:


> Batista/Cena wasn't an option from December, then Hogan rumors started.
> 
> Hogan/Cena would have been an awesome attraction to see IMO.


I honestly don't remember hearing anything about Hogan/Cena. Ever tbh. 

And I have to disagree. Hogan can fuck off. As an attraction, sure, but as an actual match hell no. It wouldn't be like Rock/Cena where Rock can still go. It would have been absolutely horrible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes... and Rock/Cena wasn't horrible :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

As somebody who was there live for Rock/Cena, it was far from horrible. They were actually able to put on a match to go along with the incredible atmosphere. Hogan/Cena would have been fucking abysmal apart from the atmosphere.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Being there live probably helped you enjoy it, but for someone watching on TV it was horrible. Shitty boring match that went on WAY too long and the atmosphere didn't come across that great on TV either. One of the lesser matches on the card imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Being there live probably helped you enjoy it, but for someone watching on TV it was horrible. Shitty boring match that went on WAY too long and the atmosphere didn't come across that great on TV either. One of the lesser matches on the card imo.


I'm waiting on my Mania 28 blu-ray so I can watch it back. It should arrive tomorrow if I have my dates right. I thought the atmosphere came across well on TV from most peoples reports. But I know how much you dislike Rocky lol. Maybe that is effecting your judgment? Btw, agreed that the match itself isn't all that great but just like Rock/Hogan, it gets mega points for the atmosphere and hype surrounding it, not to mention that the pop for the pinfall is monstrous.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I thought Rock/Cena was alright but it isn't really something I loved. I have it at ***1/4 or ***1/2 I think.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Watching it live (not at the stadium, as in at the time of happening) was a blast though. I'm not high on the match either but the finish is still one of my favourite ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My hate for Rock meant that going into it I didn't give a fuck (the unbelievably shit build up also helped), but if a Rock match is good then I can still enjoy it. Rock looked out of breath for half the match and Cena literally applied rest holds for half the damn match too. Aside from the finishing stretch there really wasn't anything good about it imo. Under *** easily.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't even term it as a match. I can't lol. It was an experience. All Mania week people were just hyped. On the bus on the way to the stadium there were Rock/Cena wars going on lol. Standing in line waiting to get my fucking drinks and pizza before taking my seat there was a Rock/Cena war going on right behind me. It was just nuts and the actual atmosphere was just incredible and something I'll never forget. Same goes for the HIAC. I literally collapsed into my seat after that and just sat there almost in awe. For all those reasons both matches will always be special for me, especially the HIAC because as an actual match, the meaning behind it and seeing the 3 of them on the ramp like that at the end, I don't even have the words lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> I don't even term it as a match. I can't lol. It was an experience. All Mania week people were just hyped. On the bus on the way to the stadium there were Rock/Cena wars going on lol. Standing in line waiting to get my fucking drinks and pizza before taking my seat there was a Rock/Cena war going on right behind me. It was just nuts and the actual atmosphere was just incredible and something I'll never forget. Same goes for the HIAC. I literally collapsed into my seat after that and just sat there almost in awe. For all those reasons both matches will always be special for me, especially the HIAC because as an actual match, the meaning behind it and seeing the 3 of them on the ramp like that at the end, *I don't even have the words* lol.


(Y)

I think JR said it best as they left the ring together, "This is *respect*."

Fucking exhausting experience to witness from ringside.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> (Y)
> 
> I think JR said it best as they left the ring together, "This is *respect*."
> 
> Fucking exhausting experience to witness from *ringside*.


FUCK YOU!! But hey, at least I wasn't stuck behind a palm tree lol. And I was ringside for Taker/HBK 26 so there!


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

greendayedgehead said:


> He doesn't look that bad...


You blind?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> FUCK YOU!! But hey, at least I wasn't stuck behind a palm tree lol. And I was ringside for Taker/HBK 26 so there!


I wasn't either lol! I was in the section behind King/Cole/JR.

Would have traded WM28 for your spot at WM26 if I could have!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> I wasn't either lol! I was in the section behind King/Cole/JR.
> 
> Would have traded WM28 for your spot at WM26 if I could have!


I just meant stuck behind a palm tree in general! I felt so sorry for those people. I would have flipped out. 

Let's trade then lol. Then you can get to witness the awesomeness that was Bret Hart vs. Vince McMahon up close and personal...


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hey, as long as I got to see Taker/Shawn I would deal with it like I did from the riser section.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^Fuck you both, you were _there_ :frustrate



JoeRulz said:


> You blind?


Nope


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

greendayedgehead said:


> ^Fuck you both, you were _there_ :frustrate


In the end, that's all that really matters. :cool2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock/Cena was easily ****1/4 at least to me. Big time feel, good enough performance for two who are not exactly praised as the greatest in-ring wrestlers (but decent at least) and I absolutely loved the atmosphere. That Miami crowd for the two nights is the best since Survivor Series 2011 in recent memory.

Also Starbuck, did you have any reactions towards the wrestlers? Specially Rock/Cena. Did you cheer/boo anyone?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^ I cheered them both because I'm a mark for both.



Clique said:


> Hey, as long as I got to see Taker/Shawn I would deal with it like I did from the riser section.


I could actually hear Vince screaming in pain at all those chair shots. It was horrible. Poor guy's back must have been on fucking fire after that. Then I stupidly decide to go to the bathroom during Punk/Rey and by the time I get back it's fucking over lol. 



greendayedgehead said:


> ^Fuck you both, you were _there_ :frustrate


DAT EDGE HOF INDUCTION


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Fuck all of you until I go next year.

Oh, and my Taker reviews...

*Undertaker 2000 PPV Matches:*

*w/ Rock/Kane vs. HHH/Vince/Shane King of the Ring (WWE Championship) *
_This match is crazy. It's a little bit of fun, though boring for the most part. It was just the three faces taking turns for the most part whipping the McMahons... for the first half of the match. They control Rock a bit, and then it gets crazy. Kane attacks Taker... attacks Rock, tombstones HHH, covers and even though no tag was made from what I saw the ref counts... Taker attacks Kane. Of course it makes sense why since only the one who scores the pinfall would be champion, but it's just a giant clusterfuck to me. Taker's chokeslam to Shane off the turnbuckle was an awesome spot. But overall, while a slightly fun match, just isn't a good one. 
_
**

*vs. Angle Fully Loaded*
_Overall probably the worst Taker/Angle match. The first half was Taker squashing Angle, even having him apparently beat a couple of times in the first few minutes but raising Kurt off the matt. Didn't really like that tbh, not this early in the match anyway, but I guess they wanted to get through just how much Taker hated Kurt for what he'd done to his motorcycle (I believe, need to freshen up on the full story behind their match. All I remember is Angle was afraid to face Taker up until a certain week and then poured something on Taker's bike... that's what I'm going off of  ). But yeah, Angle has some nice leg work, though I'm not 100% impressed by Taker's selling. The ending was pretty basic as well. Chokeslam into last ride. It's not a bad match, but it feels bad for a Taker/Kurt match when they have several ****+ matches. Also was too short for my liking. 
_
**1/2
*
vs. Kane Summerslam*
_This match was only like 6 minutes, but in that time these two had a pretty good brawl. I actually thought this match was a lot worse but it was actually a good brawl between the two. Taker trying to rip Kane's mask off is an interesting strategy. The pace was great and Taker throwing the steps right into Kane was sick. Good match.
_
***

*vs. Rock vs. Kane vs. Benoit Unforgiven (WWE Championship)*
_Nice little four-way match here. Per standard fatal four way formula, heels battle faces, swap off a bit, until the faces finally collide (Taker and Rock). I personally wasn't that into the match and i kinda dragged on a bit for me. Benoit pinning Taker 1-2-3 only for it to be reversed because Taker had the foot on the rope was some good story development as if I remember The Rock/Benoit FL match correctly, something similar happened where Benoit won the match or something but then ended up having it reversed and lost. I'm not 100% sure though, but either way it was a good way to break up the action and let the other three competitors give Benoit a beating. Rock pins Benoit with Taker trying to break up the cover, and Kane pulling Taker back, which still makes no sense to me, but meh. Overall good fatal four way, but nothing we couldn't have seen on the ME of Raw.
_
***1/4

*vs. Angle Survivor Series (WWE Championship)*
_Better than their match at FL, but still not quite up to par with what we've come to know from Taker/Angle matches. First off, much like in the Taker/Angle match at FL they have Taker lift up Angle's shoulder when he had him beat (presumably). I normally hate when wrestlers do that since they should always be trying to win unless they really really really want to hurt the other guy, which I didn't sense as much in this match as I did their FL match. Then when it's done early on it makes it worse as the guy getting pinned looks weak as fuck (even for Angle, it's ridiculous). But this match goes a step furhter as it's a fucking WWE CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH! God damn, this isn't what has deteriorated the championship credibility but it's little things like this that make up those things that do so. But that's my little mini-rant on that. Once again Taker dominates Angle for most of the match, though Angle gets more offense this time around. Edge/Christian coming out and screwing Taker not once but twice works somewhat, though I would've rather not seen Angle tap and instead Taker just get up and try to handle them instantly. Taker having Angle beat with the chokeslam though is fine. The ending is great and works for Angle's character. All in all a good match, but I still feel like I wanted more from these two.
_
***

*vs. Austin vs. Rock vs. Angle vs. HHH vs. Rikishi Hell in a Cell Armageddon (WWE Championship)*
_This match is just pure fun. 6 guys in a Cell match? How could it not be?! As far as Taker goes in this match, his role wasn't extremely significant, though being the most experienced in Cell matches did play into the build a bit, putting him as a kayfabe favorite. Of course chokeslamming Rikishi onto the hay truck was a good spot, though Taker's role in the cell ends there. McMahon trying to rip the cell apart was awesome, and then Foley kicking him out was hilarious. Of course the Austin/Rock confrontation was epic, and the ending was just another way for Angle to weasel out of losing his title. Overall awesome fun match. Taker's best match of the year considerably. _
****

All in all not the best year for Taker. Started off bad and got better throughout. His best match by far was the Armageddon Cell, which as I explained he wasn't very significant in. After that it was the Fatal Four Way, which he did play a bigger role in, but there's a big gap between that and the cell. And his best singles matches were against Kane at Summerslam and against Angle at Survivor Series. Overall probably Taker's worst year since 2000 in PPV matches, or one of his worst. 2003 might be worse in PPV matches. 

Maybe 2001 as well... though in from what I know I don't think so. He has two ****+ singles matches against Austin and HHH, as well as maybe a **** hardcore match with RVD (don't know if I really have it that high but it was always a great match to me). Actually I think that's all his singles matches from 2001. All his tag matches are forgotten memories besides the SVS elimination match and the invasion match.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The Rock/Cena match was incredible. It was exactly how you need to book this match with plenty of believable nearfalls, big time boxing fight feel with the fans popping for the bell. Full of drama, memorable spots and a perfect finish. I always said that matches like that are above the * rating, but if I need to give it something, I will give **** for the actual match and 1/2 more for the finish, atmosphere, star power, characters and the huge promotion around it. ****1/2.



Starbuck said:


> I honestly don't remember hearing anything about Hogan/Cena. Ever tbh.
> 
> And I have to disagree. Hogan can fuck off. As an attraction, sure, but as an actual match hell no. It wouldn't be like Rock/Cena where Rock can still go. It would have been absolutely horrible.


I can't find you the reports now but it was strong at that time. Hogan wanted to wrestle at the 25s WM and it was Cena or the big payoff for Jericho's legends angle. Just when he was going to start the program, he did another back surgery and it wasn't possible. It's not going to be Rock/Cena in Hogan's shape, and Cena is not the guy who can bump for him for the match but it's Hogan, and nobody knows how to maximize his worth more than Hogan. Like so many people said over the years, "Hulk Hogan can perform like the greatest Hulk Hogan of all time". He can put on a fun match on a big stage with every opponent. Even his last match was Sting was awesome for his performance. And at that time he was much more mobile, had some good matches Flair on his tour in Australia, I'm sure he would have been fine. It's Hogan in front of 70k at WM, nothing can go wrong, not with Cena(Big dream match for a LOT of people)or Khali.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I hate that 6 man HIAC match at Armageddon so much.

Action going all over the place that it's hard to keep up with at times, has one of the most stupid looking spots of all time to me in Rikishi falling into that hay truck (but it might of killed him!!~) and the match makes Angle look like a complete bitch. The worse he has ever looked during his title run back then. To hell with that match. 

Might check out that Taker/Angle Survivor Series match though as I've never seen it before.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I don't even term it as a match. I can't lol. It was an experience. All Mania week people were just hyped. *On the bus on the way to the stadium there were Rock/Cena wars going on lol*. Standing in line waiting to get my fucking drinks and pizza before taking my seat there was a Rock/Cena war going on right behind me. It was just nuts and the actual atmosphere was just incredible and something I'll never forget. Same goes for the HIAC. I literally collapsed into my seat after that and just sat there almost in awe. For all those reasons both matches will always be special for me, especially the HIAC because as an actual match, the meaning behind it and seeing the 3 of them on the ramp like that at the end, I don't even have the words lol.


Were they better or worse than the wars in the Rock/Cena thread? :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hogan was also scheduled to wrestle The Great Khali at WM23, which thankfully never happened. Didn't know anything about Hogan/Cena, though. They should have wrestled in 2005 or 2006 when Hogan still had a little bit left in him as a wrestler. Wasn't Batista/Cena planned for WM24 originally? Then something happened and they changed plans by throwing Cena into the WWE Championship match and pairing Batista in a throwaway interpromotional match with Umaga, saving their awaited face off for SummerSlam that year. And the feud finally started over Cena accidentally punching Batista while they were double-teaming on someone else. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> *Hogan was also scheduled to wrestle The Great Khali at WM23*, which thankfully never happened. Didn't know anything about Hogan/Cena, though. They should have wrestled in 2005 or 2006 when Hogan still had a little bit left in him as a wrestler. Wasn't Batista/Cena planned for WM24 originally? Then something happened and they changed plans by throwing Cena into the WWE Championship match and pairing Batista in a throwaway interpromotional match with Umaga, saving their awaited face off for SummerSlam that year. And the feud finally started over Cena accidentally punching Batista while they were double-teaming on someone else. :lol


Holy shit thank god that didn't happen.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

What are you guys talking about? That match would still be more entertaining than the Kane/Khali match at WM 23 that we got instead.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

AlwaysSunny For AIW said:


> What are you guys talking about? That match would still be more entertaining than the Kane/Khali match at WM 23 that we got instead.


Yeah but if Hogan was in it they would've given it an extra 10 minutes and like a co-main event status.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlwaysSunny For AIW said:


> What are you guys talking about? That match would still be more entertaining than the Kane/Khali match at WM 23 that we got instead.


No, it would suck as much as Kane/Khali did and since it's Hogan, it would go on for at least 10 minutes whereas the Kane/Khali match was about 5 minutes long.

EDIT: Beaten to it.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

It's a Hogan match. He would of worked the crowd a lot better than anything Kane/Khali could do. So I disagree unless you are talking about only what they try in the ring. Then yeah, it would suck.



Brye said:


> Yeah but if Hogan was in it they would've given it an extra 10 minutes and like a co-main event status.


Shit, you're right. That would of been a pain in the ass also. 

It's a lose-lose situation. 8*D


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Hogan/Khali was supposed to be the Hogan/Andre spot 20 years later. Hogan is the greatest "babyface in peril" of all time IMO. It would have been entertaining for that final spot when the stadium explodes after Hogan is giving him the slam. Probably the most entertaining Khali match of all time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rock/Cena was painfully average, Cena could have been so much better character wise and performance wise given some of his best work comes when playing the default heel against his opponent's hometown crowd. A lot of it was just standard WWE main event style wrestling, they seemed to just hope for an epic finish and a lot of the middle was just weird: one moment they're brawling on the floor, the next minute they're working body scissors and headlock spots. To me I think they just aimed to work a match entirely around the characters of both men, which is weird because both men have certainly delivered much better against a variety of different opponents where they can work a very structured and detailed match. I'll admit to frankly preferring Cena in ring than Rock, and figured with Rock's ability to always get a crowd involvd in a match, as well as Cena's polarising charisma and sublime facial expressions to sell a match we'd be in for a match that would surprise a lot of people. Instead I was painfully disappointed. Think the only things I really dug where the opening with Rock reeling off a string of moves and Cena retreating to the corner in complete shock, and the Crossbody > AA counter which I legit thought was the match ender given there was like 6 minutes left before it was 4am and the end of the PPV. Also, both men should never ever work a match based around holds, jesus some of the it was hard to watch, namely the STF and Sharpshooters.

I have no complaints if people focus on the atmosphere and icon/icon nature of the match, but to try and sell the in ring action as enthralling or superb is really stretching it IMO. Like I said if you just love the characters of both men and just concentrate on the aura rather than the actual content...then I could appreciate the argument even if I don't agree with it. But saying it had memorable spots and making out it was a storytelling and ring clinic seems incredibly absurd to me.

Controversial statement of the evening: Cena/Khali Judgement Day is a better match than Rock/Cena. Khali is terrible but manages to find a role that works fine for him: big monster who looks unstoppable, and luckily has Cena in the middle of his career year bumping big for all Khali's offence and just selling the ranging emotions superbly through his facial expressions. Once again evidence that Cena is at his best against a hopelessly bigger opponent (Umaga, Khali, Big Show, Lesnar).

Hogan is a sterling FIP, just simply for his overness alone. But Mysterio, Steamboat, Morton, Terry Funk and Lawler would all rank ahead of him IMO if we're talking babyface performers, hell given the right environment I'd struggle to say Cena isn't better than him in that role, but with Cena it does depend largely on the opponent and booking within the match, e.g the Miz matches are awful and hardly a good case for his talent. I'd also probably pump for Windham at his peak as well as Sting if we're going for pure babyfaces, not only where both of these men insanely over and beloved, they also actually worked the face in peril role better in terms of selling and adding little touches that Hogan didn't. And this is coming from someone who's slowly believing Hogan isn't terrible in the ring, clearly limited but who knew his role and perfected a formula that allowed his charisma and character to shine at the expense of his physical limitations.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I _might_ watch Cena/Khali JD 07 again. I recall it being better than it had any business being (maybe 3 star match which would make it Khali's best non-gimmick singles match for sure) decent but nothing more than that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think Cena is better in that match than anything in The Rock/Cena match bar the crowd atmosphere. It also doesn't hurt that plucky babyface v monster heel is slowly becoming one of my all time favourite matchups in wrestling. I certainly think in terms of ring story and structure Cena/Khali is the better match (it doesn't go too long where it drags), but concede Rock/Cena will have that Mania atmosphere and character dynamic that will make people ignore the actual holds and ringwork in the match.

For me Rock/Cena has no business going 30 minutes, Rock/Hogan was perfection in terms of layout and length, giving Hogan enough time to milk the crowd and capture that aura but at the same time keeping the match at a quicker and frantic pace and not trying to kid themselves in thinking 2002 Hulk Hogan could go over 25 minutes in the ring. Cena/Rock for me had an extraordinary amount of downtime in the match because of the booking to go 30 minutes, if it was cut in half I think we would have had a much more sound match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> I _might_ watch Cena/Khali JD 07 again. I recall it being better than it had any business being (maybe 3 star match which would make it Khali's best non-gimmick singles match for sure) decent but nothing more than that.


To me, that's a 1 star match at best. Truly an awful main event. It lasts about ten minutes, for about 6 minutes, Khali just tosses Cena around like a jobber, then his hands get stuck between the ropes and Cena starts punching him for a few seconds before Khali quickly pushes him to kill his chances of a comeback. Then they go outside the ring and while Khali stands by the steel-steps, Cena dropkicks it and Khali sells it like he's unable to move anymore and tries to slowly get in the ring. Cena does his top rope legdrop then the STFU which is locked in for about 1 minute before Khali taps out.

I kept hearing about how Cena brought the best out of Khali but then watched both matches they had at JD and ONS and they were equally awful. The only match anywhere close to passable I've seen between them is the triple threat also involving Umaga, but even there, SuperCena gets squashed every time he's there and suddenly FUs Khali after he tosses Umaga out of the ring.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Khali/Cena was horrendous. By Khali standards or normal standards. JD is a dud, ONS I can give *-** for the almost decent brawl and great spot for the finish. 

Khali's best match IMO is Batista/Mysterio/Khali, September PPV 2007.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd say Khali's best match was the LMS against Taker on Smackdown but I haven't watched it in ages.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

To be honest, Khali had a couple of good matches during his monster run. I loved his match against Undertaker at Judgment Day 2006 & their Last Man Standing match on Smackdown. Also enjoyed Khali/Cena Judgment Day 2007 & Khali/Cena One Night Stand 2007.

Onto another match I watched last night. Undertaker vs. Triple H from WrestleMania 27. First time I've watched it in a while and in all honesty, I found it quite boring until maybe the end. Maybe I wasn't in the mood for watching it because on first watch and second watch, I had it at ****1/2 I believe, on this watch, I'd give it ***1/2. I'll probably need to watch it again but on the last watch, the only bits I found myself really enjoying was the start and the false finish Tombstone from Triple H/the end.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena/Khali is woeful only if you're invested in matches with impressive looking moves. Cena gives a superb babyface performance, constantly clawing and fighting for every scrap of offence, Khali is hopeless but a sub 10 minute match is perfect since it gives him enough time to look dominant but does so in a timely manner where the control segment doesn't drag horribly (it would have sucked horribly if it was 20 minutes, unless Cena goes above and beyond and Khali works a miracle to make his control interesting), the build to Khali finally getting tangled in the ropes giving Cena the one moment he's needed all match is just perfect pro wrestling and Cena's facial expression is just glorious. Seriously they capture the babyface/monster dynamic wonderfully, Cena's offence is faultless the entire match, he bumps above and beyond to get the crowd fully behind him and the whole match they build to his eventual comeback wonderfully. Its just an exceptionally smart match designed to get something extraordinary out of Khali, and really unless you're going into the match expecting incredible spots and awesome looking moves, I can't understand how such obvious psychology, pacing, build and intelligence in the match can be overlooked. 

It was simply the best possible match they could have had, Rock/Cena wasn't even close to what both men are capable of and a lot of it was them foolishly being given 30 minutes and having little to no idea how to prolong the match. Whole middle section felt empty and just something to digest before 'THE BIG FINISH' and tbh matches like that these days regardless of crowd atmosphere and the magnitude will never grip me as much as something like Cena/Khali where not only does every moment in the match feel like part of the bigger picture of the match, but which is also worked wonderfully to give a very good (and great by Khali standards) match.

Whole thing just proves Cena v Mark Henry is one of the best matchups the company has never really attempted and are missing out bigtime on. If Cena can get that level of match out of an immobile Khali, then sparks will fly when he wrestles a guy with much greater offence and understanding of how to work a character like Henry possesses.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry shouldn't be out for much longer. I'd mark for him to return at Raw 1000 and cost Cena the belt, leading to a match between them at SS. Not gonna happen, but I'd fucking love it .

Not a fan of the Cena/Khali matches. Wouldn't put them above Rock/Cena, but that's in no way saying Rock/Cena was good.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2008

MVP/Flair ***1/4*
JBL/Jericho ***1/4*
Edge/Mysterio ***3/4*
Hardy/Orton ****1/4*
Royal Rumble Match ****3/4*

Decent PPV, the crowd was fantastic! I didnt enjoy the Rumble match as much as I thought I would.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Royal Rumble 2008

MVP/Flair ****
JBL/Jericho ****
Edge/Mysterio ****1/4* I love the chemistry between these two.
Hardy/Orton *****
Royal Rumble Match ******

Enjoyable show, MSG made it tonnes better of course.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Royal Rumble 2008

MVP/Flair **1/2
JBL/Jericho **
Edge/Mysterio ***3/4
Hardy/Orton ***1/2
Royal Rumble Match **3/4 (hate this rumble)


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

With this rumble there were a lot of eliminations I didnt like. I recall Undertaker and HBK getting eliminated during somebodys entrance I believe. Finlay got DQ'ed for using a weapon, yet thats never been a problem in previous rumbles.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, Finlay getting DQ'd in the Rumble was utter retarded shit. Didn't mind HBK and Undertaker's eliminations, was just something else to build from the 07 Rumble and tease their WM match a year later. Only real thing I enjoyed in the match was Snuka and Piper, with everyone standing back and watching them fight. I think it was Punk (might have been someone else, I forget) who had a monstrous smile on their face watching them battle it out in MSG for the first time in years.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I loved the Foley/HHH encounter also, that was a great moment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Forgot that happened lol. Yeah that was great too.

Fucking Cena ruined the Rumble for me too. Yeah, it was a HUGE shock when he walked about, but I wasn't marking out like everyone else seemed to be (before they realised it wasn't cool to cheer the guy...). The moment he came out I knew he was winning, and that bummed me out.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Re-watched HHH/Taker End Of An Era for the first time yesterday. Not quite as incredible as I thought it was the first time around due to the unpredictable spots(HBK going to ring the bell only to be put into the Hell's Gate, SCM into the Pedigree, etc.) and suspense of watching it live. Still a great match, but it may be down to just ****1/2 - ****3/4 for me instead of my initial *****.

Oh yeah, and a note about Bryan/Punk this past Sunday that I forgot to mention: I really loved the finish. Seems like a lot of people didn't, but I loved how it was a call back to AJ putting them both through a table two weeks earlier and I loved how AJ made the transition from being elated when she put them through a table on Raw to remorseful when she saw them crash through the table again at MITB. Yay for continuity.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just realised I never posted my MITB thoughts on here:

So, MITB.

WHC MITB Match - Some really sloppy shit, and wasn't really that good until the last 7 or 8 minutes, where it got really good imo. Ziggler was awesome in it, especially when he got thrown over the announce table into the chair by Tensai. Only Dolph could make it look THAT good. Marked for him winning. Was the favourite going into the match so I was expecting it, but it was great to see it actually happen since WWE like to screw with us constantly. Actually hope he doesn't cash in until next year. Keep building him up.

Oh joy. Jiz is back. And he's in the WWE MITB match. Yawn.

Sheamus beat Del Rio. Wooo. Didn't watch the match, don't like Del Rio. Oh shit, Ziggler cashing in? And gets kicked in the face? Phew, match never started. Got scared for a second there.

Tag stuff.

With no net I've been bored to fucking death. Looked for my memory stick to put the downloads on my mate was doing for me, and when I found it it had Over the Limit in 720p on it. So I watched Bryan/Punk again. Fucking love that match still. Might be my #2 match of the year behind Undertaker/HHH. Hope the match here is just as good. AJ being ref could really add to the match, but then again it could really take away from it too. Guess it kinda depends on how you feel about this storyline. Honestly I've really enjoyed it. AJ has been great throughout it all. Gotta laugh at the TNA marks on WF who talk about how Impact is better than Raw because the best thing on Raw right now is a women (more hilarious considering even I could come up with a couple of much better reasons as to why Impact is actually better than Raw right now). Uhhh... who cares WHO the best thing on the show is. So long as its good. And tbh, if a women is the best thing on a show then that women has to be pretty great because they usually fucking suck in WWE lol. WWE has AJ who is awesome, TNA has... that pregnant crack whore "actress" who is absolutely fucking HORRIBLE. Suck on that TNA marks . Match is now No DQ? When did that happen? Some fan made a video on some new video site thingy (first time I'm hearing about it, and I can't look it up) and said her favourite Raw moment in history was AJ proposing to Punk. Guessing she's only been watching for a week. Bryan's coat looks awesome. Really adds to the "hobo" look he's got going on with the beard. :lmao at Booker claiming an experienced referee would have never been knocked down like AJ was. Wasn't pleased with this part happened, its one of the ways that AJ as ref can be distracting from the match. Also, when did No DQ turn into No Countout too? Honestly don't think Bryan and Punk should be "fighting" up the entrance ramp. Apart from that everything else has been really good so far, but doesn't hold a candle to their OTL match atm. Nice callback to their OTL match with a Nigel McGuinness Jawbreaker Lariat with one guy on the ropes and the other flying from the ropes, only this time they did it from the barracade. Any match with a tribute to Nigel gets the thumbs up in my book. My big book of thumbs up. Sounds like a bad porno. LOL, CM Punk took it until Bryan was tired of giving it. Definitely a bad porno :lmao. LOL at when AJ comes back and grabs a chair, and someone (gonna guess sign guy) yells out "but you're the referee?!?!!". Match overall was really good, but a step below OTL. AJ at first took away from the match, then when she came back and threw the chair into the middle of the ring for them to fight over was really cool, then after that she was just kinda there. Wasn't a big fan of weapons getting involved. Would have liked the Kendo stick to have not been used, then AJ introducing the chair might have been a bigger moment.

Ryback squash. Called it. Wait, not a squash. He actually gets put in a little bit of danger. Then he wins. Duh.

Divas stuff. Whatever.

Didn't care enough about the Raw MITB match to watch it. Just skipped through. Nice to see Big Show's ladder make an appearence again. Might give the match a full watch another day since I'll be bored with no net until its fixed. :lmao at the finish. Was it supposed to happen like that? I'd legit lol if Cena wasn't supposed to win. But everyone knew he was winning anyway.

Stars:

WHC MITB - ***
Bryan/Punk - ***3/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Glad someone else appreciates that the WHC MITB wasn't that good, people calling it MOTN is laughable.

The botches and general sloppiness was terrible, i really dislike the match except for Ziggles getting the deserved win. 

***1/2*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What a difference a year makes in terms of MITB.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Indeed lol. From of the best events EVER last year, to one of the weakest events of the year so far this year.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> To me, that's a 1 star match at best. Truly an awful main event. It lasts about ten minutes, for about 6 minutes, Khali just tosses Cena around like a jobber, then his hands get stuck between the ropes and Cena starts punching him for a few seconds before Khali quickly pushes him to kill his chances of a comeback. Then they go outside the ring and while Khali stands by the steel-steps, Cena dropkicks it and Khali sells it like he's unable to move anymore and tries to slowly get in the ring. Cena does his top rope legdrop then the STFU which is locked in for about 1 minute before Khali taps out.


hey is this the place where I come in and say this is one of the dumbest things I've ever read anyone say on this board, because that's what I want to do

like, shit, there's valid arguments against that Cena/Khali match (Cena's massive overbumping being the main one for me) but like, that's as fun a seven minute match as there's ever been. they managed to get people to care about Khali. the comeback cutoff is shockingly well done and the finish makes sense and seems legit while not making Khali look weak. it's easily the best Khali match ever and one of my favorite Cena matches as well.

also agreed that Cena/Henry could be cool, but I'm not super huge on Cena as a face worker usually and I think I'd rather see Henry work with someone else.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

The main problem with setting up a Cena/Khali type situation with Mark Henry is that we've seen Cena get the upper hand (often quite easily) on Henry a lot in the last year.

Off the top of my head, I can think of:
- Kane's return
- Build up to WM, when the Rock hit the rock bottom on Henry
- before TLC (Cena FU'ing Henry during the Ryder match)

And there's probably a few more since the super show concept started up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

This is wrestling, that shit doesn't matter. Look how many times Kane has gone from jobber pussy to destructive monster .


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

Was trying to watch Orton vs Triple H at Unforgiven 04 just now. Match damn near put me to sleep. Crowd wasn't really into it, match was average at best and Orton looked like he had a boner going on the entire time which killed it for me.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I have to be one of the few that actually likes this match. Of course, I am an Orton mark, but the consensus opinion I've gotten from this thread is negative. I haven't watched their match at Royal Rumble 05 since it originally aired, but I've also heard that isn't too good.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I am thinking of watching some McIntyre matches, anyone recommend what matches of his to watch?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

McIntyre/Masters - Superstars May '11
McIntyre/Christian - July 2010 x2
McIntyre/Ryder - Superstars '11

A bunch of really good ones on Superstars probably find some good stuff from 2010 on SD too.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Mcintyre matches.
Elimination Chamber he was in last year.
If only singles matches.
vs Christian superstars this year
vs Chris Masters last year.
vs John Morrison on superstars


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

No one talks about Drew's match with Ki from 11/11/10 so I'd be interested to hear thoughts on that.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> No one talks about Drew's match with Ki from 11/11/10 so I'd be interested to hear thoughts on that.


Do you have a link I can't find that on Youtube?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oj8N9xo5Vg&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ilDlSojwI&list=PL46FDC976EB25CE2E&index=4&feature=plpp_video


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Gave it a watch and really enjoyed it. Some really sweet and brutal spots in that match. Thanks for the links.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Backlash 2003 and before I go to bed, I'll rate it and the other two 2003 PPVs I've watched so far and skipped rating.
*
Royal Rumble 2003:*

Brock Lesnar vs Big Show - **1/2
Nothing special, just needlessly done to get Brock more over as a face in his fight with Heyman after being betrayed.

Dudley Boyz vs William Regal/Lance Storm - **3/4
Throughout the first half of 2003 so far, I feel like I've watched this over and over every week on Raw until Regal was injured.

Torrie Wilson vs Dawn Marie - N/A
They aren't really wrestlers, so no point in this one, although I laughed at the storyline with Dawn "killing" Torrie's dad.

HHH vs Scott Steiner - *
Aaahh, this classic, hahaha! Match is so bad, it's unbelievable. Both seem out of energy and the whole thing goes so slowly. Plus Steiner does that belly-to-belly about 500 times over and over. And he also botched that Tiger bomb. (or whatever that underhook move he used is)

Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - *****
What a relief to watch this after the awful Raw title match. Two of the best technical wrestlers go at it and the submission counters are so awesome. These guys have unbelievable chemistry and this is just another classic in their list.

Royal Rumble match - ***1/4
Felt a bit underwhelming. Brock winning by eliminating a distracted Undertaker was a good finish for face Brock with Undertaker shaking his hand afterward, but it just didn't have the excitement throughout the most of it, something the best Rumble matches have. The one feud heading into this match was Shawn Michaels and Jericho and that lasted about one minute in the beginning before Jericho destroyed Michaels and eliminated him fast.

Overall Rating: ***1/4 out of ***** (The WWE Championship saves this one big time and the Rumble was good enough to keep the rating in the middle)

*No Way Out 2003:*

Chris Jericho vs Jeff Hardy - ***
Meh, decent match but they had the exact same on Raw a couple of weeks before. Also the exact same finish with Hardy tapping out to the Walls.

Regal/Storm vs Kane/RVD - **1/4
What a stale tag division, same teams being switched around for the most part and there have been so many match-ups between Dudleyz/Kane & RVD/Storm & Regal, I don't even remember it well.

Matt Hardy vs Billy Kidman - ***1/2
Two good cruiserweight workers putting on a decent match that is typical of most cruiserweights in wrestling. Nothing much to say. Oh, and Version 1 wins the cruiserweight title like he promised!

Undertaker vs Big Show - **3/4
So Taker is dying to get his hands on Big Show during the entire build-up and beats him here in an average match. Kinda pointless if you ask me since that only made their WM rematch involving A-Train even less worthy of anticipation.

Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit vs Team Angle/Kurt Angle - ***1/2
Edge was supposed to be in the face team but got injured and was out for over a year, missing WM19 and WM20 in the process. As for the match, it's got 5 solid workers in it so you can't expect anything less than good from them. Would be a better Smackdown main event than a PPV match, which only shows you how much of a filler No Way Out is here.

HHH vs Scott Steiner - **
As if the last match wasn't bad enough, they had to have a rematch again. This time it's not as bad, but still, it's another addition to bad matches HHH had during his "reign of terror".

Stone Cold vs Eric Bischoff - N/A
Not even a real match, Austin finally returns after being away since the walk-out and gets his revenge on Bischoff from long before when he got fired in WCW. Austin kicks Bischoff's ass for about 5 minutes and gives him numerous Stunners before going for the pin. Nothing missed.

The Rock vs Hulk Hogan - **1/2
The PPV was sold entirely on this match and Stone Cold's return. It's not surprising that no one talks about this. While their original WM18 is remembered as one of the greatest face-offs, this one was just a set-up for the Hogan/McMahon feud that followed. I also found the screwjob finish pretty funny but other than that... watch this once if you want, but you wont miss out on much if you don't.

Overall Rating: ** out of ***** (Filler in every way possible. Most of the matches have next to no build-up and the only one, or rather two, matches with any of it are nothing special.)

*Backlash 2003:*

Team Angle vs Los Guerreros - ***3/4
A pretty good opener with four great in-ring workers. The Guerreros do their usual work at delivering to the fans and getting cheered while lying, cheating and stealing. Mostly standard tag-team action but with the good, fast paced workers on board, the results are highly enjoyable.

Sean O'Haire vs Rikishi - *1/2
Meh. Absolutely nothing to see here. Piper is in O'Haire's corner and takes a coconut to the face (shoulder, actually) but personally, I couldn't care less about this and the whole Snuka/Piper thing which was about 20 years old at this point.

RVD/Kane vs Dudley Boyz - ***
The two out of three tag teams on Raw that had not been matched-up against each other yet in PPV do it here. Some fine action here with a bit of drama as Chief Morley is the special referee in Dudleyz' favor and accidentally clotheslines Bubba Ray, causing the two to kill their alliance and that lets Kane and RVD to take advantage and win with the trademark Chokeslam, followed by 5* Frog Splash.

Trish Stratus vs Jazz - **1/2
It's an okay match for the women's division with Trish finally losing to Jazz but she kind of forgets to sell her rib injury throughout a lot of the match which brings it down a notch. It's short and good while it lasts.

Big Show vs Rey Mysterio - **3/4
This one ends pretty fast and as expected, Big Show overcomes with no problem. Although he takes plenty of bumps for Rey in this giant vs little man match-up. Rey does all he can to get the upper-hand on Big Show with three 619s and a chair shot but Big Show proves dominant through all of that. Post-match, after Rey is about to get carried out on a stretcher, Show takes it and recklessly hits it against the ring-post like a baseball bat. Rey looks like he lands on his face after.

Brock Lesnar vs John Cena - ****
I really like this match. First Brock starts with the offense but then Cena starts to gain momentum after whipping Brock into the steel steps. He puts on a couple of restholds, though, both of which last a bit too long. Then he tries to do his usual heel thing and use the steel chain but the referee stops him and he falls victim to a F5 which gives Brock the victory. I think Cena should have gotten a bit more offense, as the only nearfall he gets is the roll-up after low-blowing Brock away from the referee's sight. He didn't even get to FU Brock throughout the match. Still, a pretty good match-up which was redone 9 years later in a different manner.

HHH/Ric Flair/Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels/Kevin Nash/Booker T - ***1/4
Booker and Jericho really have no business being in this one as it's all about the Cliq. They are just thrown in to make the card. As for the Cliq and Flair, this is Nash's comeback after an injury and for the most of it, there's Shawn being attacked for a big part of the match by the heels in standard tag-team fashion until he gets the hot tag to Nash and he finally faces off with HHH. All wrestlers start brawling all around the ring and then Nash returns inside to clean house but he pushes the referee out of the ring, which Hunter takes advantage of and hits him with the sledgehammer for the victory. Kind of unexpected finish since he didn't even hit his finisher but that's it. A very half-assed match similar to the Smackdown tag-team match between the main eventers at No Way Out.

The Rock vs Goldberg - ***1/2
The Rock's final singles match until WM28 with Cena, also Goldberg's WWE debut. This lasts about 15 minutes and relies a lot on signature moves which I have no problem with. Goldberg gets the victory after 2 vicious Spears and the Jackhammer. A decent match for someone like me who enjoys over-reliance on spots rather than "PSYCHOLOGIII!!!!!1111".

Overall Rating: ***1/4 out of ***** (An average PPV with some good stuff and other forgettable parts. Only matches really PPV worthy here are the main event, the WWE Championship match and the opening tag team contest. Everything else was either filler or unmemorable.)


----------



## Dan the Tank05 (Jun 13, 2011)

*I gotta say, I have been watching "WWE The Best Pay-Per-View Matches of 2011" and it kicks ass! I loved the match on disc one with Triple H Vs. Undertaker at wrestlemania 27! they also had Cena Vs. CM Punk at MITB and CM Punk won and walked out of Chicago with the WWE title. I also found The Raw MITB match when Del Rio won it was epic! so I feel its one of the best DVD's I have.

I also watched "Undertakers Deadliest Matches" and that was fucking epic! I loved the Hell in a Cell match Vs. Randy Orton as well as the Hell in a Cell match Vs. Edge! An interesting set-up they had was Orton & Cowboy Bob Orton with the handicap Casket Match and then right after that match they showed the Hell in a Cell right after. It was a great transition!*


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

PGSucks said:


> I have to be one of the few that actually likes this match. Of course, I am an Orton mark, but the consensus opinion I've gotten from this thread is negative. I haven't watched their match at Royal Rumble 05 since it originally aired, but I've also heard that isn't too good.


It feels too slow paced for me with not too good storytelling going on. Triple H wasn't really in good form here and Orton was pretty boring in this match compared to his Summerslam match the PPV before. It didn't help that the crowd was dead for most of the match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I posted a few weeks ago a post about a Custom Sting DVD Set i saw on Youtube, well i also found this whilst googling:

http://shelf3d.com/Search/Uploaded by HBKFOREST

they are from a siet called rwm total wrestling, after googling some more i found there Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/wrestlingmerchuk

Apparantly that is wheer you get info etc, but although im registered on Facebook i never use it and have tried but cant seem to post on his 'wall' or whatever, if anyone else is interested and gets in contact with him could they give me a heads up...


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Melina vs Alicia Fox ******


----------



## Att-Era-Kanefan (Mar 5, 2012)

Anyone know when The Undertaker The Streak DVD comes out? On Smackdown last night it said itd be out Tuesday but Smackdown is taped on Tuesdays so would it be out now or this coming Tuesday lol?? 

I think its awesome they included every WM match in full length, but it has me wondering, will they show parts like when he hanged Bossman at WM? Will they show the blood or somehow censor it? Thats a dumb question but I havent bought a wrestling dvd in years and with the pg era I was just wondering if they take parts like that OUT of the dvds or leave it?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Att-Era-Kanefan said:


> Anyone know when The Undertaker The Streak DVD comes out? On Smackdown last night it said itd be out Tuesday but Smackdown is taped on Tuesdays so would it be out now or this coming Tuesday lol??
> 
> I think its awesome they included every WM match in full length, but it has me wondering, will they show parts like when he hanged Bossman at WM? Will they show the blood or somehow censor it? Thats a dumb question but I havent bought a wrestling dvd in years and with the pg era I was just wondering if they take parts like that OUT of the dvds or leave it?


I think they'll release it under TV-14 and keep everything the way it took place. So that includes the hanging, blood and etc.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

zep81 said:


> I posted a few weeks ago a post about a Custom Sting DVD Set i saw on Youtube, well i also found this whilst googling:
> 
> http://shelf3d.com/Search/Uploaded by HBKFOREST
> 
> ...


Thieving bastards they are. 99% of the comps they have supposedly made are bought from other people, there's even a couple of mine on there.



Att-Era-Kanefan said:


> Anyone know when The Undertaker The Streak DVD comes out? On Smackdown last night it said itd be out Tuesday but Smackdown is taped on Tuesdays so would it be out now or this coming Tuesday lol??
> 
> I think its awesome they included every WM match in full length, but it has me wondering, will they show parts like when he hanged Bossman at WM? Will they show the blood or somehow censor it? Thats a dumb question but I havent bought a wrestling dvd in years and with the pg era I was just wondering if they take parts like that OUT of the dvds or leave it?


It's out next Tuesday but wweshop have started shipping early mine was sent out last week.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Platt said:


> Thieving bastards they are. 99% of the comps they have supposedly made are bought from other people, there's even a couple of mine on there.


Thought that Lesner set looked familiar :cuss:

Despite that, the Sting one does still look appealing....


----------



## Att-Era-Kanefan (Mar 5, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I think they'll release it under TV-14 and keep everything the way it took place. So that includes the hanging, blood and etc.


Just checked on wweshop and its PG rated.. Would that probably mean the blood, hanging etc is edited out or something? I fucking hope not, if so then thats ridiculous.


----------



## Att-Era-Kanefan (Mar 5, 2012)

*This is crazy, wtf???*

Seeing how they are releasing the dvd The Undertaker The Streak in a couple days, it got me to thinking.. It has all 20 mania matches in full length on it, has a documentary and interviews, etc.. Its mainly a dvd dedicated to Taker and his streak... Why in the hell would they make a DVD like this, BEFORE the guy is retired and before the streak is over? Say he faces Lesnar next year and wins, he will be 21-0.. Just seems kind of stupid to release a dvd with all 20 mania matches, and then still have him winning more on down the road, that WONT be on the dvd. 

That tells me either he is losing his next one, or the WWE doesnt want to make a Taker streak DVD when he has finally lost and the streak has been broken. After all, it wouldnt really be a streak then, it would sort of be tarnished.. 

Either that or they dont really care and just wanted to make one right now since 20-0 is a really nice even number.. Just got me to wondering if maybe that meant he is losing his next one or he WILL lose his LAST mania match and then there will be no live streak to make a DVD out of... Wow.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*

MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY.

They did a 15-0 one years back, which only had a couple of matches in full. They just like round numbers like 15 and 20, and they can make MORE money from another Undertaker set in a few years time should he retire then, which could include the missing Streak matches not on this one.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*

Yeah its all about the money, people will buy this one and the next one,


----------



## Att-Era-Kanefan (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*

I figured that was it, just wanted to make sure. I didnt know about the 15-0 one, my bad. I wasted a thread lol sorry mods.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*

What KingCal said. It's all about the money as Vince would say. 

Undertaker's a legend and they know they can make lots of money of him. 20-0 is a perfect landmark to release a DVD and if The Undertaker goes another few years expect another DVD to come out. Maybe he could go to 25-0. The Rock had a DVD last year and he'll be getting a new one soon to include his match with Cena at WrestleMania and maybe the match he wrestles in at WrestleMania 29. These big names like Undertaker and The Rock have HUGE fanbases and people will buy them regardless if they've seen most of the matches before.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Att-Era-Kanefan said:


> Just checked on wweshop and its PG rated.. Would that probably mean the blood, hanging etc is edited out or something? I fucking hope not, if so then thats ridiculous.


Well, that's really ridiculous. I guess they'll change the screen to black and white every time the camera closes in on a bloody face. That's stupid IMO. With that said, how many of Taker's WM matches have blood in them? Only ones I can think of are against Boss Man and Flair. Edge is also busted open at the end of the WM24 match but it's no big deal.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Undertaker is busted open at the end of the HHH match at WM17.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My eyes bleed during the Bossman match, does that count too?


----------



## mcc4374 (Oct 19, 2010)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*


----------



## N-Zone (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*

We all know the thread is incomplete without this:






But yeah, WWE won't hesitate to release DVD's on their top stars. Rock, Austin, Taker, HHH, Rey, etc. all have several compilations at this point. 

As pointed out above they can just make more dough from another set when Taker actually does retire. I'm expecting another Rock one within a year featuring his Survivors, Mania and upcoming matches.


----------



## Guerrilla Press Slam (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*

Easy, even if he only has one or more WM matches they would just release the same DVD and brand it as "BRAND NEW UPDATED VERSION". Job done.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*



Slyy Blue said:


> Easy, even if he only has one or more WM matches they would just release the same DVD and brand it as "BRAND NEW UPDATED VERSION". Job done.


Wouldn't put it past them to release an updated version with another disc. Did it for Foley years back .


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

*Re: This is crazy, wtf???*



mcc4374 said:


>


Why the fuck does Vince wear suits that are clearly too big for him!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Did they ever explain why the stage fell on Vince during MILLION DOLLAR MANIA?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just ordered Money in the Bank 2011 on dvd, qutie excited as I have not seen the show in full yet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Did they ever explain why the stage fell on Vince during MILLION DOLLAR MANIA?


Hornswoggle did it :side:.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

He seems to do EVERYTHING.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

No Way Out 2008

Punk/Chavo ***1/2*
SD EC ***1/2*
Kennedy/Flair **3/4*
Edge/Rey ****
Orton/Cena ****1/4*
Raw EC ******


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

any ratings for survivior series '11?


----------



## justice4joepa (Jul 14, 2012)

Del Rio vs. Punk is near the **** range.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Survivor Series 2011:*

Dolph Ziggler vs John Morrison - **3/4
Beth Phoenix vs Eve - **
Team Barrett vs Team Orton - ***
Mark Henry vs Big Show - **3/4
CM Punk vs Alberto del Rio - **3/4
Rock/Cena vs Miz/Truth - ***1/2


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Just ordered Money in the Bank 2011 on dvd, qutie excited as I have not seen the show in full yet.


Great PPV as a whole. Best matches imo are wwe championship and smackdown mitb. Great pick. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Undertaker: The Streak DVD is a 15 certificate in the UK, so i assume that US PG rating may be incorrect


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*WrestleMania XXIV*

Finlay vs JBL - **1/4
MITB - ***1/2
Batista vs Umaga - *1/2
Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - ***3/4
Randy Orton vs John Cena vs HHH - ***1/2
Floyd Mayweather vs Big Show - ***
Edge vs Undertaker - ****1/4


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just rewatched TLC 2009 and I must say I enjoyed it more than previously. No groundbreaking stuff but some decent to good matches throughout made it a decent PPV. Match of the night is the opener between Benjamin and Christian.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Not to disrupt you and I'm really happy you think that but Sheamus vs. Morrison is the best match the TLC PPV has ever had. I don't give af*#% if it happened in 2010 and everyone is on that Sheamus haterade.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Caponex75 said:


> Not to disrupt you and I'm really happy you think that but Sheamus vs. Morrison is the best match the TLC PPV has ever had. I don't give af*#% if it happened in 2010 and everyone is on that Sheamus haterade.


Alright, but I was talking about the '09 event.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Christian/Benjamin was pretty terrible considering who was in it.

Botches, slow energy and the stop in the middle destroyed any of little pace they gained.

***1/4 at MOST*


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Alright, but I was talking about the '09 event.


Don't care. Any time Sheamus vs. Morrison can be praised and given the spot light is a worthy moment.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Platt said:


> Thieving bastards they are. 99% of the comps they have supposedly made are bought from other people, there's even a couple of mine on there.
> 
> 
> 
> It's out next Tuesday but wweshop have started shipping early mine was sent out last week.


Question... is there anyway to get those custom WWE DVD sets in the US?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Thinking of getting the History of the IC title. Anyone got any opnions on this set?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Thinking of getting the History of the IC title. Anyone got any opnions on this set?


Personally, i like it, pretty good match choice IMO, it of course has the Flair-HHH Taboo Tuesday cage match (Y) , alot of abvious choices but i think they were voted for by 'fans' so.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> *WrestleMania XXIV*
> 
> Finlay vs JBL - **1/4
> MITB - ***1/2
> ...


About to watch Wrestlemania 24 for the first time today! On blu-ray too. Looking forward to the show!


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WM 24 is a fantastic show

Finlay/JBL: *****
MITB: *****1/4*
Tista/Umaga: ***
Flair/HBK: ******
RKO/Cena/Trip: *****
Floyd/Show: *****
Edge/Taker: *****1/2*

Top show, anyways also watched WM 22 earlier.

WM 22

Show&Kane/Masters&Carlito: ****
MITB: ****1/4*
Benoit/JBL: *****
Foley/Edge: ******
Boogeyman/Booker: *DUD*
Stratus/Mickie: ****1/4* *LOVE this match
Taker/Henry: *
HBK/McMahon: **1/2
Angle/Orton/Mysterio: ***
Torrie/Candice: DUD
Cena/Trip: ***1/4

Really well rounded show, crowd's awesome.*


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*WrestleMania XX*

Show/Cena *3/4
Jericho/Christian ***1/2
Rock n Sock/Evolution **3/4
Cruiserweight Open **
Goldberg/Lesnar *
Eddie/Angle ****
Undertaker/Kane *1/2
HHH/Benoit/HBK *****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XX:*

Big Show vs John Cena - **1/2
RVD/Booker T vs La Résistance vs Dudley Boyz vs Lance Cade/Mark Jindrak - ***
Chris Jericho vs Christian - ***
The Rock/Mick Foley vs Evolution - ***1/4
Torrie Wilson/Sable vs Stacy Keibler/Miss Jackie - N/A
Cruiserweight Open - **3/4
Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar - *
Too Cool vs APA vs Basham Brothers vs Charlie Haas/Shelton Benjamin - **3/4
Victoria vs Molly Holly - **1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ***3/4
Undertaker vs Kane - *
HHH vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit - *****

Overall: A lot of average or flat out bad matches on this show, yet I absolutely love this, mainly due to the legendary Eddie/Benoit celebration at the end and the classic main event. Also a lot of filler that made the show look more stacked than it should have been. (***1/2 out of *****)

*Wrestlemania 22:*

Kane/Big Show vs Chris Masters/Carlito - **1/2
Money in the Bank - ***3/4
Chris Benoit vs JBL - ***1/2
Mick Foley vs Edge - ****1/4
Boogeyman vs Booker T - *
Trish Stratus vs Mickie James - ***1/2
Undertaker vs Mark Henry - **
Shawn Michaels vs Mr. McMahon - ***3/4
Kurt Angle vs Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
Torrie Wilson vs Candice Michelle - ZERO
John Cena vs HHH - ****1/4

Overall: Pretty good show with most stuff around the average to great mark with a couple of filler that should have been cut out. An underrated show with a great crowd. (***3/4 out of *****)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WM 22

Carlito/Masters vs Kane/Show - **1/4
MITB - ***1/2
Benoit/JBL - ***1/2
Edge/Foley - ****1/4
Booker/Boogey - DUD
Mickie/Trish - ***1/4
Taker/Henry - **3/4
HBK/Vince - ****
Angle/Rey/Orton - ***1/2
Torrie/Candice - DUD
Trips/Cena - ***3/4 (up from last view)

WM 24

Finlay/JBL - ***1/4
MITB - ****1/4
Umaga/Batista - *1/2
HBK/Flair - *****
Orton/Cena/Trips - ***3/4
Mayweather/Show - ***1/2
Edge/Taker - ****1/4

Two favorite WMs.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The crowd saved WM22. It had plenty of great matches but the most memorable thing at that time was the WM crowd. I still see WM22 as the biggest wasted card of all time because the original card for this PPV was one of the best ever. 

Hogan/Austin, Angle/Taker, Eddie/HBK, Edge/Foley, Batista/Orton, HHH/Cena etc. 

Greatest matches:
Flair/HBK - *****
Foley/Edge - ****1/4
Vince/HBK - ****
Taker/Edge - ****
HHH/Cena - ****
Angle/Orton/Rey - ***3/4
Show/Floyd - ***1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Angle/Rey/Orton is a horrific match on so many levels. Choreographed bullshit for starters, does little to deviate from the terrible triple threat formula of 'Wrestler A throws Wrestler B out of the ring and fights with Wrestler C' and more importantly does a terrible job of building up to Rey's win by just making Angle look ridiculously strong and like he was cheated out of the win. I mean christ unless my memory is really bad here doesn't Rey tap when the ref is down???? It was just a stupid stupid match made all the more worse when Rey/Orton NWO and April on SD prove both men could put on a far better match than what the triple threat with Angle consisted of. The fact it got 9 minutes as well was utterly stupid, if they weren't going to fully invest in Mysterio's win I honestly question why they didn't recreate the Rock Wrestlemania 16 finish and have him chase the belt and win it at another PPV with a longer match better focused on teasing his win. A 9 minute win in which he and Orton are largely Angle's bitches, and not having Rey and Orton try to kill one another but rather work together was just an appalling way for someone of Mysterio's quality to win the title.

WM 22 is definitely underrated though, I prefer it to 21 and think as a whole match show its far better than 23 (Cena/HBK from that show would have made 22 incredible however), 18, 20 and 25, 27, 28. I really for the most part love Wrestlemania 26, and think 24 despite not being great for the in ring wrestling managed to create that 'Wrestlemania atmosphere' which really makes the entire show a spectacle, and despite the wrestling as a whole being better at 22, 23 and 26 I think it just manages to strike a greater balance between the spectacle as well as the entertainment. The card placement is also brilliant and definitely ensures there's very few matches together where the crowd interest is minimal, yet still ensuring the bigger matches have the necessary crowd heat.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I see WM20, 22, and 24 reviewed recently... so why not do em all from WM20 on?


WrestleMania XX

Show/Cena **
Jericho/Christian ****
Rock n Sock/Evolution **1/2
Cruiserweight Open **
Goldberg/Lesnar *1/4
Eddie/Angle ****
Undertaker/Kane **
HHH/Benoit/HBK ****1/2

Very good Mania. Two awesome championship matches, and a great Jericho/Christian match. Also the Undertaker returns as the deadman, which was great. Sadly the Taker/Kane match wasn't great. Neither were any of the other matches outside of the ones listed above. There's also the infamous Lesnar/Goldberg match, which may be one of the biggest disappointments of all time. I mean no doubt this was one of the biggest drawing matches of the Mania if not the biggest, and there was a lot of hype around it, especially with Austin as the guest referee. Then they go out and deliver the crap they did. Neither of them gave a damn, they showed it, and MSG reacted accordingly. Oh, and the Rock n' Sock match was cool as well, and would be Rock's last match for seven years before returning to the same arena at Survivor Series last year... which I was there for.  The match itself was decent though.

WM21

Mysterio/Guerrero- ***1/2
MITB- ****1/4
Taker/Orton- ****1/4
Trish/Hemme- *1/2
Angle/Michaels- ****1/2
Akebono/Show- DUD
Cena/JBL- *
Batista/HHH- **

This show is really a mixed bag. Ultimately though the undercard saved this show and makes it one of the better Manias and one of my favorites. Guerrero/Mysterio, while one of their lesser matches in quality, was still very good. The original MITB is the best. Taker/Orton was amazing and Angle/HBK is a classic. The divas match though wasn't very good. Show/Akebono was a bore, Cena/JBL was terrible, and Batista/HHH was a sorely disappointing and poor main event, especially considering how big the feud was. Overall like I said, a mixed bag. Half the show was filled with awesome matches, while the other half was filled with terrible ones. 


WM 22

Carlito/Masters vs Kane/Show - **1/2
MITB - ***3/4
Benoit/JBL - ***
Edge/Foley - ****1/4
Booker/Boogey - DUD
Mickie/Trish - ***1/4
Taker/Henry - *3/4
HBK/Vince - **
Angle/Rey/Orton - **3/4
Torrie/Candice - DUD
Trips/Cena - ***

Edge/Foley saves this show for me. MITB is fun as well. Trish/Mickie was great and one of the best Divas matches in the last 6 years. Cena/HHH was boring, Rey/Orton/Angle wasn't WM level World Title quality, and there are two DUD matches in the second divas match and Boogeyman/Booker. It's not the worst WM ever but not close to one of the best IMO. I'd honestly say it's weaker than it's surrounding Manias, though from WM20 on is better than WM25, and far better than WM27.

WM23

MITB- ***1/4
Khali/Kane- 1/4*
Benoit/MVP- ***1/2
Taker/Batista- ****1/2
ECW Originals/NewBreed- **3/4
Lashley/Umaga- ***1/4
Melina/Ashley- DUD
Cena/Michaels- ****

Underrated WM. Great main event. The World Title match was a classic and stole the show. MITB, while not one of the better ones was still fun. Benoit/MVP was great, and Lashley/Umaga was actually a good match. Yeah, Kane/Khali and Ashley/Melina bring the show down a couple of notches, but besides those everything else delivered.

WM 24

Finlay/JBL - ***1/2
MITB - ****1/4
Umaga/Batista - **
Kane/Chavo- 1/4*
HBK/Flair - ****
Divas Playboy Lumberjill- *
Orton/Cena/Trips - ***1/2
Mayweather/Show - ***
Edge/Taker - ****1/4

WM24 was awesome. Only two lackluster matches on the card (well, three if you count the ECW title match, which was barely a match). The main event between Taker and Edge is one of the best WM main events ever. HBK/Flair was an excellent match and a great way for Flair to go out... just a shame that's not how he ultimately goes out. Mayewather/Show was a billion times better than expectations. The triple threat WWE Title match was great, and the JBL/Finlay match was an excellent opener. MITB is probably the second best MITB match ever. Overall just an excellent Mania top to bottom, and one of the best Manias of all time.

WM25

MITB- ***1/2
Divas Battle Royal- DUD
Jericho/Legends- *** (for the Jericho/Steamboat interaction)
Matt/Jeff Hardy- ***1/2
Mysterio/JBL- DUD
Taker/HBK- *****
Edge/Cena/Show- ***1/4
Orton/HHH- **1/4

Taker/HBK did save this show, and is an all-time classic, but the MITB match was fun. Matt/Jeff I really liked, and the World Title triple threat was good. Orton/HHH is a match that wasn't that good and was a huge disappointment, but had such a hot storyline going into it (see Batista/HHH WM21). Mysterio/JBL is... well... it is what it is. Divas battle royal is made even worse by the fact Santina... *cough Santino* won. Jericho/Steamboat was a great little match. If it was just that I'd probably rate that legends match ***1/2. 

WM26

ShowMiz/TruthandMorrison- **1/2
Orton/Rhodes/Dibiase- ***1/4
MITB- ***
Sheamus/HHH- ***1/4
Mysterio/Punk- ***1/2
Hart/McMahon- DUD
Jericho/Edge- ****
Divas Tag- *
Cena/Batista- ***3/4
Taker/HBK- ****1/2

Overall a very good Mania. Taker/HBK is a classic main event. The title matches were both excellent. And hell, the show just kept getting better and better as it went, which is what I love, besides McMahon/Hart, which is one of the worst matches ever, and the Divas tag which.. well... is a divas match. But overall one of the better WM's and marks HBK's last match, which will always make it memorable.

WM27

Edge/Del Rio- ***1/2
Rhodes/Mysterio- ***1/4
Corre/Show-Kane-Marella-Kingston- *
Orton/Punk- ***1/2
Cole/Lawler- DUD
Taker/HHH- ***1/2
6-mixed tag- *1/2
Cena/Miz- *

Overall, not an as abysmal Mania as it's made out to be. Yeah, probably the worst out of all the ones I'm rating now, but still did have several great matches in Orton/Punk. Taker/HHH, Edge/Del Rio and Rhodes/Mysterio was a very good match as well. The problem with this Mania is it's kinda like WM21, a mixed bag, only worse. The top tier matches in quality of this Mania don't beat the ones of WM21 and the worst matches of this Mania are worse. Cole/Lawler is the worst match of all time imho. But yeah, a weak WM, but at least it had good spots, plus Rock guest hosting was a nice touch.

WM28

Sheamus/Bryan- 1/2*
Kane/Orton- ***1/4
Show/Rhodes- **1/2
Divas Tag- 3/4*
Taker/HHH- ****
Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy- **3/4
Punk/Jericho- ****1/2
Rock/Cena- ***1/2

Only really bad match was the divas match. Sheamus/Bryan at least furthered there story well in this, even if it was ridiculous. Show/Cody was okay, and same for Team Johnny/Team Teddy. Punk/Jericho was an amazing wrestling match, Taker/HHH with HBK as ref was an awesome storytelling match, Rock/Cena was a spectacle, and Kane/Orton produced a quality match. Overall a petty good Mania in my view.

How I'd rate these Manias:

1) WM24
2) WM21
3) WM20
4) WM26
5) WM23
6) WM28
7) WM22
8) WM25
9) WM27


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I seem to be a bigger fan of WM28 than most. With the original (speculated) undercard consisting of:
A MITB featuring guys like Christian, Kofi, Truth, Ziggler, Swagger, Kane, Wade Barrett, etc.
Orton vs. Del Rio
Cody vs. Goldust
Miz and Eve vs. Ryder and Kelly Kelly
Rey Mysterio vs. Sin Cara 

Or something similar, would make 28 a Top 3 Mania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I did rate WM21 a while back, but I can do it again.

Eddie/Rey - ***3/4
MITB - ****1/4
Taker/Orton - ****1/4
Trish/Hemme - *3/4
Angle/HBK - ****1/4
Akebono/Show - ZERO
JBL/Cena - ***
HHH/Batista - **3/4

WM23:

MITB - ****1/2
Khali/Kane - 1/2*
Benoit/MVP - ***3/4
Taker/Batista - ****1/2
ECW Originals/New Breed - Haven't seen yet
Lashley/Umaga - ***1/4
Melina/Ashley - Haven't seen yet
Cena/HBK - ***1/2

WM24:

Finlay/JBL - ***1/2
MITB - ***3/4
Umaga/Batista - **3/4
Kane/Chavo - N/A
HBK/Flair - ***1/4
Divas Playboy Lumberjill - *
Orton/Cema/HHH - ****1/4
Mayweather/Show - ***1/4
Edge/Taker - ****

WM25: 

MITB - ***1/2
Divas Battle Royal - *
Jericho/Legends - ***
Matt/Jeff Hardy - Haven't seen yet
Rey/JBL - N/A
Taker/HBK - *****
Cena/Edge/Show - ***1/4
Orton/HHH - **1/4

WM26:
ShowMiz/Truth and Morrison - ***
Orton/Cody/DiBiase - ***1/4
MITB - ***
Sheamus/HHH - ***1/2
Rey/Punk - ***3/4
Bret/McMahon - ZERO
Jericho/Edge - ***3/4
Divas Tag - *
Cena/Batista - ***3/4
Taker/HBK - ****1/4

WM27:

Edge/Del Rio - ***1/2
Cody/Rey - ***1/4
Corre/Show & Kane & Santino & Kofi - *
Orton/Punk - ***1/2
Cole/Lawler - 1/2*
Taker/HHH - ***3/4
Mixed tag team - *
Cena/Miz - *1/4

WM28:
Sheamus/Bryan - N/A
Kane/Orton - ***1/4
Show/Cody - **1/2
Divas tag team - *1/4
Taker/HHH - ****3/4 (might need a rewatch and if it's as good as first time, it's a 5 star)
Team Teddy/Team Johnny - ***1/4
Punk/Jericho - ***1/2
Cena/Rock - ****1/2


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

WM15:
Rock/Austin - ****1/4
Shane/X-Pac - *** 

WM16:
Rock/Foley/Show/HHH - ****1/2
Ladder - ****3/4
Angle/Benoit/Jericho - ****
Hardcore - ***

WM17:
Rock/Austin - *****
Angle/Benoit - ****1/2 
TLC - *****
Vince/Shane - ***1/2
Taker/HHH - ***1/2

WM18:
Rock/Hogan - *****(above the * rating)
Flair/Taker - ****
Angle/Kane - ***1/4
Austin/Hall - ***
Jericho/HHH - ***

WM19:
Rock/Austin - ****1/2
Angle/Lesnar - ****1/4
Hogan/Vince - ***1/2
Y2J/HBK - ****
Booker/HHH - ***1/4-1/2

WM20:
Rock/Foley/Evolution - **** (Should have been Rock/Flair alone, their interaction here was gold)
Angle/Eddie - ****1/4
Benoit/HBK/HHH - ****1/2

WM21:
Angle/HBK - *****
Orton/Taker - ****
MITB - ****1/2 
Batista/HHH - ***

WM22:
Edge/Foley - ****1/4
HBK/Vince - ****
HHH/Cena - ****
Angle/Orton/Rey - ***3/4-****
MITB - ****

WM23:
Batista/Taker - ****1/2
HBK/Cena - ****
Lashley/Umaga - ***1/4

WM24:
Flair/HBK - *****
Edge/Taker - ****1/4
Orton/HHH/Cena - ***3/4
Floyd/Show - ***1/2
Batista/Umaga - ***

WM25:
HBK/Taker - *****
Orton/HHH - ***1/2
Hardy/Hardy - ***1/2

WM26:
HBK/Taker - ****1/2
Jericho/Edge - ***3/4
Batista/Cena - ***3/4

WM27:
Edge/Del Rio - ***1/2
Taker/HHH - ****

WM28 
Rock/Cena - ****1/2
Taker/HBK/HHH - ****1/2
Jericho/Punk - ***1/4
Orton/Kane - ***


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Holy Wrestlemania ratings! There are a lot of matches I'm hazy on, though.

WM XXVIII
Punk v Jericho ****1/4
End of an Era ****+
Once in a Lifetime 3-4*

WM XXVII
Edge v Del Rio ***3/4

WM XXVI
Michaels v Undertaker: It's been a VERY long time and this is definitely due for a rewatch. ****1/2+ definitely.
Edge v Jericho ****

WM25
Michaels v Undertaker see above. Although I remember liking the XXVI match more.

WM XXIV
Cena v HHH v Orton ***1/2
Edge v Undertaker ****1/4
MiTB ****
Show v Mayweather ***+ AWESOME!
Flair v Michaels ****

WM23
Batista v Undertaker **** Remember NOTHING else

WM22
Edge v Foley ****1/4

WM21
MitB ****1/4 must rewatch
Angle v Michaels *** Not a fan of them together
Taker v Orton ****

WM XX
Christian v Jericho ****
Benoit v Michaels v HHH *****

WM XIX
Rock v Austin ****1/2
Michaels v Jericho ****1/2

WM X7
TLC II *****
Angle v Benoit ***3/4, Royal Rumble blows it away
Rock v Austin must rewatch, ****1/2+


----------



## Martyn (Feb 21, 2010)

I just watched WWF Rock Bottom 1998. Poor ppv with good undercard of Rock/Mankind (*** 1/2) and Austin/Taker. 

Could you recommend me some good 1998 PPVs?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*WrestleMania XXV*

MITB ***3/4
Jericho/Legends **3/4
Matt/Jeff ***1/2
HBK/Taker *****
Edge/Cena/Show ***1/4
HHH/Orton **1/2


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Martyn said:


> I just watched WWF Rock Bottom 1998. Poor ppv with good undercard of Rock/Mankind (*** 1/2) and Austin/Taker.
> 
> Could you recommend me some good 1998 PPVs?


Survivor Series 98. The tournament was great, Rock/Mankind main event was 4*+ with a series of good and big star power matches all over the card. If you know the story behind the tournament, it's just a brilliant PPV, in quality and booking.

Summerslam is awesome. 

Breakdown, WM14, OTE all great shows.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

*Wrestlemania 28:*
HHH/Undertaker ****
Cena/Rock ***3/4
Jericho/Punk **** (I suggest you rewatch this one, it gets better)
Kane/Orton **3/4

*Wrestlemania 27*

HHH/Undertaker ****1/2
Cena/Miz *3/4
Edge/Del Rio ***1/4
Rey/Rhodes ***1/4
Punk Orton ***1/2

*Wrestlemania 26*

Undertaker/HBK ****1/4
Cena/Batista ***1/4
Edge/Jericho ***1/2
Sheamus/HHH ***
Rey/Punk *** MitB ***1/4

*Wrestlemania 25:*

HBK/Undertaker *****
Orton/HHH ***1/4
Edge/Cena/Show ***1/2
MitB ***1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wrestlemania 25

MITB - ***3/4
Jericho/Legends - ***
Hardy/Hardy - **1/2
Mysterio/JBL - DUD
Taker/HBK - ****1/2
Cena/Edge/Show - ***
Trips/Orton - **3/4

WM 26

ShoMiz/Truth & Morrison - **3/4
Rhodes/Ted/Orton - **3/4
MITB - ***1/2
Trips/Sheamus - ***
Punk/Mysterio - ***1/2 (Best match you'll get that goes six minutes)
Hart/McMahon - MINUS FIVE STARS
Jericho/Edge - ***1/2
5v5 divas - 1/2*
Cena/Batista - ***3/4
HBK/Taker - *****

WM 27
Edge/Del Rio - ***3/4
Rhodes/Mysterio - ***1/2
8 man tag - *
Orton/Punk - ***3/4
Cole/Lawler - MINUS FUCKING THOUSANDS OF STARS. This legitimately ranks as my least favorite match of all time.
Taker/Trips - ****1/4
Morrison/Trish/Snook vs Dolph/Laycool - *1/2
Miz/Cena - *1/2

WM 28
Bryan/Sheamus - DUD
Orton/Kane - ***1/4
Show/Rhodes - **
Diva tag - *
Taker/Trips - ****3/4
Long/Johnny - **
Punk/Jericho - ****1/2
Rock/Cena - ***


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Alright let's see how much i can remember

WM 20
Cena/Show: ****
Christian/Jericho: ****3/4*
Evolution/Rock&Sock: ****3/4*
CW Open: ***3/4* iirc.
Berg/Lesnar: ***
Guerrero/Angle: ****3/4*
Taker/Kane: ***
Benoit/Trip/HBK: *****1/2*

WM 21
Mysterio/Guerrero: **** i hate the amount of times Rey fiddles with his mask
MITB I: *****1/4*
Taker/Orton: ****3/4*
Angle/HBK: ****1/2*
Cena/JBL: ****
Tista/Trip: ***1/2*

WM 23
MITB III: ****1/2*
Khali/Kane: ***
Benoit/MVP: ***3/4*
Taker/Tista: *****1/4*
Lashley/Umaga: ****
Cena/HBK: ****1/2*

WM 25
MITB V: ***3/4*
Jericho/Legends: ***3/4*
Matt/Jeff: ****
Taker/Michaels: *****3/4*
Cena/Edge/Show: *****
Trip/Orton: ****

WM 26
ShowMIz/Morrison&Truth: ***
Orton/DiBiase/Rhodes: ***1/2*
MITB VI: ****
Trip/Sheamus: Can't remember too well belive it was around ***3/4*
Mysterio/Punk: *****
Hart/McMahon: ***
Jericho/Edge ***1/2*
Cena/Tista: *****
HBK/Taker :*******

WM 27
Edge/DelRio: ****
Rhodes/Mysterio: ***3/4*
Orton/Punk: ****1/2*
Cole/Lawler: *Fuck off. DUD of all DUDS*
Trip/Taker: ******
Miz/Cena: **1/2*

WM 28
Kane/Orton: ***3/4*
Show/Rhodes: ****
Taker/Trip: *****1/4*
TeamJohnny/TeamTeddy: ***
Punk/Jericho: ****3/4*
Rock/Cena: **** for the match but atmosphere bumps it to ***1/2*


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Haven't posted in here in awhile, and haven't watched any wrestling in months. For the first time 14 yrs of watching wrestling I just don't have much desire to keep up with it. I believe the last matches I reviewed was the Taker/Michaels WM series a few months back. Thinking about watching a match or 2 tonight. Thinking maybe something from 01-02, always loved that period, especially Unforgiven 02 - WM19 , and pretty much all of 01, especially the Rumble. Any suggestions?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Everyone should watch this Undertaker v Mark Henry match. It is legitimately five million stars.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seen it before:

*The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - Smackdown February 10th 2006*

Apparently this is their first match together. Shame they would go on to have more . Its also The Undertaker's first match on SD in 4 months.

This match hasn't come out of nowhere, as Henry is pissed that The Undertaker is getting a title shot against Angle at NWO instead of Henry having a RR rematch with Angle.

'Taker takes things slow at first, locking Henry in a side headlock. Henry powers out, and Undertaker runs into Henry only to be knocked back! They lock up again, and this time its Henry using the side headlock. With the failed shoulder tackle and now being put in a side headlock himself, Henry has to be impressing The Undertaker.

More bad luck for Undertaker, as Henry hits a shoulder tackle and sends 'Taker crashing to the mat, something that The Undertaker was unable to do to him moments ago. Undertaker then attempts a hip toss, but the big man is going nowhere. Henry tried to hit his running... thing where the opponent is in the 619 position, but Undertaker moves and Henry leaps to the outside by mistake!

Undertaker finally gets in some effective offence, by sending Henry into the steel steps. Now its classic 'Taker (Cole has ruined the word vintage), as he begins to throw lefts and rights at Henry's face and body. Henry doesn't really move, so 'Taker boots him in the face for good luck.

Dammit, Cole just used the term "classic Undertaker" as well. Now that is ruined. Bastard.

Henry is getting dominated in the ring by Undertaker, but the guy either won't stay on the mat for a 3 count, or simply won't go down. Undertaker has some success by charging knee first into Henry's face while in the corner, so he goes for it again, only for the massive Henry to catch him. All downhill for the Dead Man now, as Henry focuses on the body and back, setting up for his World's Strongest Slam.

Believe it or not, its a headbutt to Undertaker that wakes up the Dead Man and starts his comeback. Nothing seems to put down Henry though, much like earlier in the match, until the leaping lariat and a Chokeslam are pulled out from 'Taker's bag of tricks. Before this one can end though, MNM run down to the ring and attack Undertaker. He holds his own for a little while, before getting triple teamed for a few moments until Angle shows up and cleans house! No doubt this is setting up to a match next week.

This one isn't on the same level as Henry/Rey from a few weeks ago, but as far as Mark Henry matches go, its still one of his very best. Henry seems to do pretty well when he is focused on attacking the back/body of someone, and not having 20 minutes to do it. Its when his matches go on too long that he suffers, because he ends up doing the same shit over and over again while having to many rest holds. Undertaker sells for him nicely, and puts Henry over by hitting plenty of offence but rarely taking him off his feet.

*Rating: ****


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Liked it more than you, I'd be putting exclamations points everywhere and actually thought "Classic Undertaker" is way better than "Vintage Undertaker." Has like the greatest steel steps bump of ALL time too. Taker looked ridiculously good; I wish he actually got good opponents after Mania. Khali and Kennedy. Oof. After watching this I would've actually wanted he and Henry to match up at Mania.  I should watch that casket match again (((I PROBABLY WON'T)))


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kennedy was a good opponent for Undertaker in 06 (and early 07). After that Kennedy wasn't worth shit . And the LMS match with Khali was better than any Undertaker/Henry matches imo .

Don't watch the casket match, its really not that good. Watchable, but not good.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

I remember really liking the Undertaker-Kennedy Last Ride match when it first happened. Of course I was literally just starting to watch wrestling at the time, but I remember it fondly enough that I'll give it a rewatch when the time comes.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I seem to remember Kennedy being ok on Smackdown in 06-07, of course he worked the likes of Undertaker, Finlay and Matt Hardy in that time so any of his weaknesses were bound to be hid well, but I seem to remember *sterling* being a big fan of a Hardy/Kennedy match from that time and I think he wrote about it at the other place. I know Cal is a decent fan of Kennedy in that time as well, makes me think I should revisit that period eventually and see some of his better outings, because anything from 08-12 has made me think he's pretty horrific in just about every department.

P.S Post here more Jawbreaker.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Wrestlemania 20*
Chris Jericho vs. Christian - ***1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle - ****
Chris Benoit vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - *****

*Wrestlemania 21*
MITB - ****
The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton - ***1/2
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels ***1/2

*Wrestlemania 22*
MITB - ***1/4
Edge vs. Mick Foley - ****
Mickie James vs. Trish Stratus - ***1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon - ***1/4
John Cena vs. Triple H - ***1/2

*Wrestlemania 23*
The Undertaker vs. Batista - ***3/4
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - ****1/4

*Wrestlemania 24*
JBL vs. Finlay - ***1/4
MITB - ****1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair - ****1/2
Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. John Cena - ****
Floyd Mayweather vs. The Big Show - ***1/2
The Undertaker vs. Edge - ****1/2

*Wrestlemania 25*
MITB - ***1/4
Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy - ***1/4
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - ****3/4

*Wrestlemania 26*
Triple H vs. Sheamus - ***1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk - ***3/4
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - *****

*Wrestlemania 27*
Edge vs. Alberto Del Rio - ***1/4
Cody Rhodes vs. Rey Mysterio - ***1/4
Randy Orton vs. CM Punk - ***1/2
The Undertaker vs. Triple H - ****1/4

*Wrestlemania 28*
The Undertaker vs. Triple H - ****1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****
The Rock vs. John Cena - ***1/4

The rest of the matches from every card are *** or under or I simply can not remember them so I wouldn't really consider them must watch, or they didnt stand out at all. By far Wrestlemania 24 has been the best wrestlemania since Wrestlemania 19 and to be quite honest, it blows everything out of the water. I think wrestlemania 27 gets far too much hate as it has three great undercard matches with a must-see match in teh former of HHH/Taker, even though it is the worst Undertaker streak match since Wrestlemania 22, despite it being ****1/4, which I think really says a lot about The Undertaker as a performer.

The order is this, IMO.

Wrestlemania 24
Wrestlemania 22
Wrestlemania 26
Wrestlemania 27
Wrestlemania 28
Wrestlemania 20
Wrestlemania 25
Wrestlemania 23
Wrestlemania 21


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Segunda Caida said:


> I seem to remember Kennedy being ok on Smackdown in 06-07, of course he worked the likes of Undertaker, Finlay and Matt Hardy in that time so any of his weaknesses were bound to be hid well, but I seem to remember *sterling* being a big fan of a Hardy/Kennedy match from that time and I think he wrote about it at the other place. I know Cal is a decent fan of Kennedy in that time as well, makes me think I should revisit that period eventually and see some of his better outings, because anything from 08-12 has made me think he's pretty horrific in just about every department.
> 
> P.S Post here more Jawbreaker.


Any of those potentially list worthy? Going to go check out what sterling said, because I think I remember that Hardy/Kennedy match being good and dude is smart and writes well.

Also I might. I'll see how much I like it.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Is TLC 11 worth it? I can't remember anything at all about the show.

EDIT- Also Silvervision please put the Raw&Smackdown best of 2011 up there, need it on blu ray but not the price I've seen it for recently.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

jawbreaker said:


> Any of those potentially list worthy? Going to go check out what sterling said, because I think I remember that Hardy/Kennedy match being good and dude is smart and writes well.
> 
> Also I might. I'll see how much I like it.


Kennedy has a bunch of ***-**** matches in the 06-07 period, but honestly I wouldn't think any are list worthy. Undertaker matches are the best of the bunch, but not even I would put any on my list (well, I love their Germany house show match but I'm avoiding listing house show matches).



Ever Wolf said:


> Is TLC 11 worth it? I can't remember anything at all about the show.


Just looked at the match listings to remind me of it... and I remember the entire event being pretty shitty. Not one match on the card that was any good imo (some people love the main event, not me though lol).


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I think that was the show where Cena didn't feature at all so Punk actually got to main event lol .It's a good show, but has nothing ' must watch' on it , MOTN was probably the TLC main event at like ****.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been tame Wednesday for the last few weeks rather than wild IMO.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

jawbreaker said:


> Any of those potentially list worthy? Going to go check out what sterling said, because I think I remember that Hardy/Kennedy match being good and dude is smart and writes well.
> 
> Also I might. I'll see how much I like it.


Going off of memory I'm unsure, though I myself plan to watch that Hardy match just to see. I get the impression it'll be one of those matches where there's enough to love in the match, and for you to think its an excellent TV match and perhaps deserves more praise, but then you'll have to consider whether you think you could find 100 matches from 2000-2009 that surpass it. From what *sterling* said I could see myself listing it, probably in the bottom 20 somewhere but more as a personal favourite match. If I like it as much as I hope I will I could easily see it falling in a position where there's very little I can pick apart about it, which will make me strongly consider listing since I'm growing more and more attached to great/brilliant TV matches which are worked perfectly compared to bigger PPV matches which might be better in some areas, but aren't as complete/have noticeable flaws. I mean a lot of my WCW list featured matches in this sort of description.

But Cal has seen more of his run than me recently so I'll take his word that there aren't going to be many matches that make you regret watching them, but at the same time may just not meet whatever criteria you feel is necessary for a top 100 match spanning 10 years.

Excellent, bear in mind this isn't limited to WWF/E though. As long as it features someone who worked in the company you can write/discuss about NWA, Mid South, Memphis, AWA etc.


EDIT: tracked down *sterling's* thoughts, turns out there was a Finlay match he nominated for the poll, but there is a Hardy match he wrote about as well:



Spoiler: Hardy v Kennedy



Mr. Kennedy vs. Matt Hardy - Smackdown 5/4/2007

I remember Cal making a comment in a review of a Kennedy/Taker match about how Kennedy always worked kinda awkward-looking in his mat exchanges and holds and stuff like that. Not awkward-looking in a bad way, but awkward-looking in a way that makes the stuff seem more organic and realistic, like they're really struggling. That's what we see early on here-- they really just do some basic headlock exchanges, but it comes across really well thanks to great facial expressions from both guys, and they both just look like they're working so damn hard to get into and out of these holds. They don't deliver gorgeous, textbook Benoit/Angle-esque exchanges; they deliver a bunch of ugly but snug matwork, and then Kennedy throws a good elbow, and Matt's sell is even better, and they exchange some strikes and Kennedy's nose gets busted open, and then Kennedy takes a realistic and ugly-looking bump to the outside. The whole match looks like an ugly fight. Kennedy works the arm for a bit, and Matt's selling is really tremendous. The arm work doesn't last long enough for the selling to become a focal point, but it's noticeably great.

But Matt Hardy's punches are the best part of the match. Seriously, they look insanely good. All his comebacks are well-timed, and the crowd eats them all up because he's Matt Hardy, and he really doesn't do much other than throw these ridiculous fucking punches. I could watch Matt Hardy punch bad guys in the face forever. Kennedy gets in some awesome cutoff spots, including a nasty running knee, and a cool spot where he tosses Matt off when Matt's going for his bulldog spot.

But Matt is definitely the star-- he was a legit great worker at this point-- with awesome facial expressions while he's caught in holds, and fantastic selling, and really tremendous punches.

Just a really good TV match that felt like a total slugfest and looked like a nasty brawl between two tough bastards.






Spoiler: Hardy v Finlay



Matt Hardy vs. Finlay - Smackdown 6/22/2007

Similar feel to the Kennedy match in the opening parts of this match, except it's better because Finlay is better than Kennedy. Finlay throws some really nasty strikes at Hardy, and Hardy sells them all expertly. All the holds and headlocks look snug and uncomfortable. As he tended to do at this time, Finlay took control on the outside, thanks to a distraction from Hornswoggle, which allowed him to hit a brutal clothesline. He works Matt over for a bit, but the match really takes off when Matt, trying to mount a comeback, goes to the second rope. Finlay catches him and yanks him off, and Matt lands on his knee, and JBL/Cole tell us he's been having knee problems, and Finlay evidently knows that because he just tears into Matt's knee. I mean, as soon as I saw Matt grab his knee, I knew the match would be good because Matt can sell his ass off and Finlay can rip a dude's limbs off, but it exceeded my already high expectations. Finlay just goes nutso, using his environment and a variety of holds and blows that all look stellar, and Matt sells the knee as well as I've seen anyone sell a knee injury. Seriously, I thought he was about as good as Savage at Mania 8, and I thought this match was about as good as Savage/Flair (though it didn't have all the extravagance/drama at ringside). Just a brutal and manly match with tremendous selling, plus a pretty awesome finish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

John Cena's first title reign PPV matches: (April 2005-January 2006)

vs JBL (WM21) - ***
vs JBL (Judgment Day) - ****1/2
vs Christian vs Jericho (Vengeance) - ***3/4
vs Jericho (SummerSlam) - ****1/4
vs Angle (Unforgiven) - ***1/4
vs HBK vs Angle (Taboo Tuesday) - ****
vs Angle (Survivor Series) - **3/4
Elimination Chamber (New Year's Revolution) - ***3/4
vs Edge (NYR) - Nothing


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This is a NWO set: :cool2

http://www.coreystapes.com/nwo.html


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> John Cena's first title reign PPV matches: (April 2005-January 2006)
> 
> vs JBL (WM21) - ***
> vs JBL (Judgment Day) - ****1/2
> ...


That's the highest rating for ena/JBL @ WM 21 i think i've seen and can't say i agree, i thought the match was really poor for a WWE Title match at Wrestlemania ** at most for me.

Let's see how much i remember of Cena back then:
vs JBL (WM21) - *3/4
vs JBL (Judgment Day) - ****1/2
vs Christian vs Jericho (Vengeance) - ***1/2
vs Jericho (SummerSlam) - ***1/2
vs Angle (Unforgiven) - ***
vs HBK vs Angle (Taboo Tuesday) - Can't remember at all.
vs Angle (Survivor Series) - **
Elimination Chamber (New Year's Revolution) - ***1/2
vs Edge (NYR) - DUD but the best DUD of all time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena 2005 title matches:

vs JBL (WM21) - *
vs JBL (Judgment Day) - ****1/4
vs Christian vs Jericho (Vengeance) - ***3/4
vs Jericho (SummerSlam) - ***3/4
vs Angle (Unforgiven) - (don't remember this match in the slightest besides that Cena got dq'd)
vs HBK vs Angle (Taboo Tuesday) - ***3/4
vs Angle (Survivor Series) - **1/2
Elimination Chamber (New Year's Revolution) - ***3/4
vs Edge (NYR) - ***************


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

vs JBL (WM21) - DUD
vs JBL (Judgment Day) - ****
vs Christian vs Jericho (Vengeance) - ***3/4
vs Jericho (SummerSlam) - ***
vs Angle (Unforgiven) - Don't remember
vs HBK vs Angle (Taboo Tuesday) - ***
vs Angle (Survivor Series) - **1/2
Elimination Chamber (New Year's Revolution) - **


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> That's the highest rating for ena/JBL @ WM 21 i think i've seen and can't say i agree, i thought the match was really poor for a WWE Title match at Wrestlemania ** at most for me.
> 
> vs HBK vs Angle (Taboo Tuesday) - Can't remember at all.







Here's the Taboo Tuesday match. Worth a watch.

As for Cena/JBL at WM21, I think it's disappointing and all but not that bad at all. The problems are that it is given far too little time and there's no build towards the finish. But it's okay while it lasts. JBL starts with the offense, then Cena gets some offense in which gets stopped by a move from JBL. Then he goes for the Clothesline from Hell which Cena ducks and there's the FU. Way too short and the finish was out of nowhere and looked awful with JBL on Cena's shoulders for about 10 seconds. But I enjoyed the 10 minutes it lasted.

Cena's second title reign: (RR 06 - ONS 06)

vs Edge (Royal Rumble) - ***
vs HHH (Wrestlemania 22) - ****1/4
vs HHH vs Edge (Backlash) - ****
vs RVD (One Night Stand) - ****1/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The thing i hated most about Cena/JBL @ WM 21 was how it was practically a carbon copy of Cena/Show @ WM 20 but for a much more important title.

Cena's second title reign: (RR 06 - ONS 06)
vs Edge (Royal Rumble) - **
vs HHH (Wrestlemania 22) - ***1/2
vs HHH vs Edge (Backlash) - ****
vs RVD (One Night Stand) - ****1/2

Cheers, will watch that in a bit, sort of remember it being OK for a C level PPV.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena's second title reign:

vs Edge (Royal Rumble) - **3/4
vs HHH (Wrestlemania 22) - ***
vs HHH vs Edge (Backlash) - ***3/4
vs RVD (One Night Stand) - ****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got Cena/Edge/Trips at ****1/2. I love that match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> The thing i hated most about Cena/JBL @ WM 21 was how it was practically a carbon copy of Cena/Show @ WM 20 but for a much more important title.


I wouldn't say so. The Big Show match was pretty much a squash all around with Cena cheating to pin Big Show whereas with JBL, he actually had a chance fighting back. But as usual with Smackdown, their main event got robbed of it's true potential. Same thing happened at WM22 with the triple threat.



Brye said:


> I've got Cena/Edge/Trips at ****1/2. I love that match.


My favorite spot is Cena doing a diving body press/splash. He's got a great Backlash record.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Cena @ WrestleMania

Big Show WM 20 - *
JBL WM 21 - 1/4*
HHH WM 22 - *** 3/4
HBK WM 23 - **** 1/4
Orton/HHH/Cena WM 24 - *** 1/2
Edge/Show/Cena WM 25 - ***
Batista WM 26 - *** 1/2
Miz WM 27 - 1/2*
Rock WM 28 - ****


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Kennedy was a good opponent for Undertaker in 06 (and early 07). After that Kennedy wasn't worth shit . .





Segunda Caida said:


> I seem to remember Kennedy being ok on Smackdown in 06-07, of course he worked the likes of Undertaker, Finlay and Matt Hardy in that time so any of his weaknesses were bound to be hid well, but I seem to remember *sterling* being a big fan of a Hardy/Kennedy match from that time and I think he wrote about it at the other place. I know Cal is a decent fan of Kennedy in that time as well, makes me think I should revisit that period eventually and see some of his better outings, because anything from 08-12 has made me think he's pretty horrific in just about every department.
> 
> P.S Post here more Jawbreaker.


Man I thought Kennedy was the dogs last time (and every time) I watched anything from him. I'm actually going through all 2006 SmackDowns mark so I'll see if my opinion on him goes up.

I'm thinking of listing all the SD 06 stuff really worth watching as I go; the best is great, and there's often two good matches on every show, but I doubt someone would want to sit through all the episodes knowing they'd have to watch the Boogeyman eat stuff and Randy Orton cut promos on Eddie Guerrero. "Rey you have as much chance winning at No Way Out as Eddie Guerrero coming back to life." Jesus Christ.

A lot of gems already; MNM v Mexicools RULED and I'm even liking Orlando Jordan.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I could be way off, since watching Kennedy hasn't really been a priority for quite some time, but when I watched back in 06 I seem to recall he largely worked sub 10 minute matches and didn't do horribly. I seem to recall though the further up the card he got the more noticeably he began to suffer and I haven't bothered to check out much from TNA, but what I have seen has been crap. Just devoid of any of the intangible qualities like a Mcintyre possesses, just all style (that term can be used incredibly loosely) and no substance.

I really do want to watch 2006 Smackdown again sometime, so you just talking up a few of the lesser talked about matches would be an ideal start. Between Hardy, Regal, Taylor, Londrick, Benoit, Finlay, Taker, Noble, Henry, MNM etc the undercard scene was stacked and then you had the Orton's and Mysterio's delivering some excellent work in the upper-card and the main event.

I still remember Finlay's debut being one of the best ever in terms of his performance, just a straight up nasty bastard.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Haven't reached some of those guys yet. Taylor and Noble haven't shown up once, but hell, I'm only in February. Fuck London and Kendrick btw. Seriously, I hate them and don't get why anybody thinks they're really good. I've heard their match w/ the Pitbulls from GAB is apparently great so I might have to pop in PPVs and skip around. Plus I've meaning to go back to Taker/Angle and I'm one ep away from No Way Out.

I MAY try to get memory together and actually write about every show I've seen so far; even with all backstage bullshit included. Booker T is RULING the "I'm injured" angle.

edit- Finlay's debut was as awesome as it's always been. Then the next week the WWE dumbasses give him Funaki and the crowd doesn't give a shit. Dumbasses.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena @ WrestleMania

Big Show WM 20 - **
JBL WM 21 - *
HHH WM 22 - ***
HBK WM 23 - ****
Orton/HHH/Cena WM 24 - ***1/2
Edge/Show/Cena WM 25 - ***1/4
Batista WM 26 - ***3/4
Miz WM 27 - *
Rock WM 28 - ***1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Haven't reached some of those guys yet. Taylor and Noble haven't shown up once, but hell, I'm only in February. Fuck London and Kendrick btw. Seriously, I hate them and don't get why anybody thinks they're really good. I've heard their match w/ the Pitbulls from GAB is apparently great so I might have to pop in PPVs and skip around. Plus I've meaning to go back to Taker/Angle and I'm one ep away from No Way Out.
> 
> I MAY try to get memory together and actually write about every show I've seen so far; even with all backstage bullshit included. Booker T is RULING the "I'm injured" angle.
> 
> edit- Finlay's debut was as awesome as it's always been. Then the next week the WWE dumbasses give him Funaki and the crowd doesn't give a shit. Dumbasses.


I remember enjoying one of their tags vs MNM, though I always dug MNM for their heel tactics. That Pitbulls match I do recall, I think it was more of a sprint heavy match but I seem to recall Noble being quite good. They had a couple of decent TV matches as well, usually when they had singles matches week by week which were kept short, they're not a super amazing tag team but I seem to remember them doing fairly well as a sympathetic high flying team working the STF style reasonably well, of course re-watching their best matches with my tastes much different could sour my view.

Think Regal & Taylor come into play as a tag team around October time, I know they're in the Armageddon Ladder match and am sure they'd wrestled Londrick before, but most likely on TV since Regal worked Benoit at No Mercy and that was the last SD PPV before Armageddon.

I recall that Booker angle, honestly that might have been the most I've ever enjoyed him as King Booker and the heel run before he won KOTR. Casual me really despised him and Sharmell throughout the Benoit series and leading into the Mysterio title match, I seem to recall getting bored however when he and Batista wrestled each other for what seemed like an eternity at each PPV.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> I remember enjoying one of their tags vs MNM, though I always dug MNM for their heel tactics. That Pitbulls match I do recall, I think it was more of a sprint heavy match but I seem to recall Noble being quite good. They had a couple of decent TV matches as well, usually when they had singles matches week by week which were kept short, they're not a super amazing tag team but I seem to remember them doing fairly well as a sympathetic high flying team working the STF style reasonably well, of course re-watching their best matches with my tastes much different could sour my view.
> 
> Think Regal & Taylor come into play as a tag team around October time, I know they're in the Armageddon Ladder match and am sure they'd wrestled Londrick before, but most likely on TV since Regal worked Benoit at No Mercy and that was the last SD PPV before Armageddon.
> 
> I recall that Booker angle, honestly that might have been the most I've ever enjoyed him as King Booker and the heel run before he won KOTR. Casual me really despised him and Sharmell throughout the Benoit series and leading into the Mysterio title match, I seem to recall getting bored however when he and Batista wrestled each other for what seemed like an eternity at each PPV.



London and Kendrick are OK FIPs, but God, I just hate the kind of US Indy Wrestling Offense they have. Hate it. Every fucking move is some jumping stomp or some dumbass Marufuji kick. Wrestlers like Bryan Danielson use forearms because it's effective to smash a guy in the face, wrestlers like London use forearms to set up some shitty irish-whip-into-something-asinine move. I was liking 2002 London as well in the recent months I was watching ROH too so it's kind of a let down. I saw one of thei matches with MNM, but MNM were pretty much the best tag team of the past 15 years; they're always good. Maybe Paul and Brian get better in mid-later 2006, IDK.

Yeah, I've gone pretty high on Booker in 2012, but I'm not looking forward to the Batista matches at all. Ditto v Lashley.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So wait... PLEASE don't tell me I have to sit through Rock-Cena II at WM 29, or even worse Rock-Lesnar... Save Brock for like, Taker or somebody.

Punk vs Taker or Trips please


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'd take Rock/Brock over Rock/Cena or Taker/Brock. I think we are going to get Rock/Punk at the Rumble which would be great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> I'd take Rock/Brock over Rock/Cena or Taker/Brock. I think we are going to get Rock/Punk at the Rumble which would be great.


Rock goes over Punk at Royal Rumble, either clean or after Cena interferes and attacks Punk. Cena wins Elimination Chamber #1 contender mathch or the Rumble and says he wanted Rock so he can beat him at WM. They have their match for the belt at WM29, Cena turns heel to win. And Taker takes on Brock. That would be awesome!

Then by WM30, Cena says there's no man left for him to beat until Taker interrupts him which sets up Taker vs Cena at WM XXX.


----------



## LariatSavage (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm not a fan of doing the same Mania match two years in a row, so I hope Cena/Rock doesn't happen at WM29...

Raw 1000th Review!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd like to see Rock/Brock as long as it ISN'T for the WWE Championship. Nothing personal against either men, I just want a champion who is on Raw every week and is working House Shows, etc. I don't think Rock takes the title at RR because it means he has to work EC 2013 as well. 

Actually.. If Cena went over I wouldn't mind seeing Rock/Cena II.... I mean, it looks like they're going that route.

Here's what I'm holding out for in regards to realistic match possibilities :

Cena/Rock II
Taker/Lesnar
Punk/Trips


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

This has got me thinking, i cant see Punk holding the title for another six months, but i also cant see Cena winning at summerslam only for Punk to win it back later, should be good tv for the next few months


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> London and Kendrick are OK FIPs, but God, I just hate the kind of US Indy Wrestling Offense they have. Hate it. Every fucking move is some jumping stomp or some dumbass Marufuji kick. Wrestlers like Bryan Danielson use forearms because it's effective to smash a guy in the face, wrestlers like London use forearms to set up some shitty irish-whip-into-something-asinine move. I was liking 2002 London as well in the recent months I was watching ROH too so it's kind of a let down. I saw one of thei matches with MNM, but MNM were pretty much the best tag team of the past 15 years; they're always good. Maybe Paul and Brian get better in mid-later 2006, IDK.
> 
> Yeah, I've gone pretty high on Booker in 2012, but I'm not looking forward to the Batista matches at all. Ditto v Lashley.


Yeah the more I think about it the more I'm inclined to believe I won't be as big a fan of their work as I was back in 06 where for the most part I was still largely a casual viewer. I think bar 2002/2003 and a couple of matches here and there London hasn't been all that much in his career, no idea whether its drug related, or whether WWE just killed his enthusiasm but something drastic happened. Agreed on MNM being one of the best teams in quite some years, really worked the STF to perfection and had some great double team spots as well as Melina being really good as the interfering manager.

Yeah Booker/Batista was dull as dishwater, Batista is pretty much a guy who can work in the right sort of environment (heavyweight sprints), but he's just devoid of anything that appeals to me in a worker. He's got some impressive looking signature moves and bursts of offence, but just like HHH, Edge and Jericho there's just nothing unique/emotive about them, its all formulaic WWE main event style wrestling with restholds, elaborate finishing stretches etc. But there's no heart and soul, no little touches in matches/holds, very little work to envoke a character into the match and the sequences. Its almost like spotfests only without the memorable spots, its just a collection of moves in a match.

Also that Lesnar/HHH brawl tonight really doesn't make me want to watch them go long at Summerslam. Cena works well with Lesnar because he let him beat the crap out of him, and he knows how to play to a crowd and time his comeback impeccably whilst also being able to brawl reasonably well, HHH is just so incredibly stale to me and is just nothing at this point beyond moves inside a ring that I know the match is going to suck. There's not a chance in hell Lesnar will be allowed to look as monstrous as Cena let him look, and no doubt HHH will insist on working a drawn out WWE epic or some choregraphed NO DQ brawl and it'll have nothing on Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah HHH never seems to do regular matches these days , definately going to see it be a NO DQ match or whatever gimmick they decide , could even go HIAC.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

11rob2k said:


> This has got me thinking, i cant see Punk holding the title for another six months, but i also cant see Cena winning at summerslam only for Punk to win it back later, should be good tv for the next few months


I can actually see him holding it a bit longer because it's now a completely new direction for Punk, so it's like starting fresh. Only problem is, Cena is the only face to challenge him, unless they plan to keep Orton face and bring back that feud? Cena can go handle Big Show once and for all. 

Maybe Cena wins it at NOC, and then loses it to Rock at the rumble and then Punk wins the Rumble to face Rock at the ME of MANIA, and goes over. Would be a nice gesture by Rock.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Lesnar has to be a gimmick match though. They need to FIGHT not wrestle lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah Booker/Batista was dull as dishwater, Batista is pretty much a guy who can work in the right sort of environment (heavyweight sprints), but he's just devoid of anything that appeals to me in a worker. He's got some impressive looking signature moves and bursts of offence, but just like HHH, Edge and Jericho there's just nothing unique/emotive about them, its all formulaic WWE main event style wrestling with restholds, elaborate finishing stretches etc. But there's no heart and soul, no little touches in matches/holds, very little work to envoke a character into the match and the sequences. Its almost like spotfests only without the memorable spots, its just a collection of moves in a match.


IDK if I'd put Batista in the same sentence as Trip, Edge or Jericho; I'd say their pretty emotive even if this emotion can look forced or stupid. Definitely wouldn't say Batista's in the same emotive bracket as Jericho. Maybe 2012 Jericho. The "collection of moves in a match" thing applies to Trip a lot; at least during his I Am That Damn Good period of 02-03, and I think I said something like that in one of the 03 matches I talked about. 

I have too much wrestling to keep track of, so I literally pull DVD names out of a hat (or Christmas box, w/e) sometimes to choose what to watch. Today I pulled out the WWE Kane set which I figured I'd never watch, but I actually got through everything I'd never watched before. 

HHH v Kane from No Mercy 02 was a match where HHH was definitely emoting, but that doesn't stop the match from being mediocre. Really the guy's selling was pretty bad and he really had no idea how to fill time. On the other side I watched HHH v Kane from Judgment Day 01 and that was a really fun, solid match and Trip looked good. I'd watch that one again.

Two matches with Edge, who was emotive in the Oh Crap I'm The Heel Getting My Arse Kicked way, but I really don't buy him that much. This was 2005 so it wasn't his fake psycho bullshit phase of 07-08, but he isn't the best actor at all. I hate his sort of big spot selling too. Kane chokeslams him on the stretcher and he just stops dead. Maybe I'm being stupid, but I'd like to think you'd hold your back and yell and stuff. Maybe the stopping dead just bothers me because it reminds me of the propfest stunt show matches I don't like. All right matches, but Edge looks like your average wrestler.

LMS v Jericho was really fun but went too long; but Jericho was looking really good running at the beginning and acting tired while getting hope spots in. Kind of like a face in peril in a singles match; exhausted and needing a break before being able to string anything together, and I bought him in that role. So yeah, I think not emoting is a 2012 Jericho thing. I think Chris has looked only looked good three times this year: Rumble, Mania, Raw v Cena.

IDK what my point is, I guess it's that I like all these guys more than Batista.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh I'll definitely take a brawl over a wrestling match, since the type of match HHH would work if they just wrestled would absolutely not mesh at all with Lesnar. But HHH isn't a top class brawler either IMO, I just don't like his general offence in those sorts of matches especially as a face (LMS with Orton at No Mercy would be the exception) and think there are plenty of other guys Lesnar could work much better with. HHH as a whole is just so stale to me, I just don't enjoy watching him for whatever reason, there's just very little drama or emotion in between the moves he executes and its the same problem with someone like Orton. There's not a lot factually wrong with what either man does in their average match, but for whatever reason they just cannot escape this overly formulaic style and it always makes it incredibly hard for me to find something in that match besides the moves that are executed if that makes sense.



Yeah1993 said:


> IDK if I'd put Batista in the same sentence as Trip, Edge or Jericho; I'd say their pretty emotive even if this emotion can look forced or stupid. Definitely wouldn't say Batista's in the same emotive bracket as Jericho. Maybe 2012 Jericho. The "collection of moves in a match" thing applies to Trip a lot; at least during his I Am That Damn Good period of 02-03, and I think I said something like that in one of the 03 matches I talked about.
> 
> I have too much wrestling to keep track of, so I literally pull DVD names out of a hat (or Christmas box, w/e) sometimes to choose what to watch. Today I pulled out the WWE Kane set which I figured I'd never watch, but I actually got through everything I'd never watched before.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'd definitely say the Jericho thing became more noticebale around 2005 when he started to get really stale as a character, and then from 2008 onwards. I dunno how to really explain it but aside from the Mysterio series when I watch a Jericho match it just feels, 'dull' to me now. Like he'll lay out a decent structure of babyface shine period, then his control segment and then the finishing stretch, but his offence is usually passable at best and things like the restholds and wear down submissions just don't grab me. Its not like when Punk works a match as a heel etc. Its like he's got offence you'd give to a CAW but he just can't string it together now in a meaningful way that I enjoy, he's very good in 2000 as more of a high flyer, but these days I just watch Jericho and there's very little in the way of character work and little touches when he wrestles that I enjoy. Again its really hard to try and explain how I feel but it does just come across to me as a lot of moves which are well executed but just can't grab me in any meaningful way, and its the same with the likes of HHH and Edge. Its like they've perfected this larger than life WWE style of main event wrestling, but when these guys bump and sell and work from the bottom I just don't really connect with them, and its not like they're doing much noticeably wrong, but for whatever reason I'd sooner watch guys like Masters and Mcintyre work respective face/heel roles in a match, since they manage to work enough smart and subtle stuff into their matches that I feel like there's more beyond the moves being executed, and even the moves themselves resonate better with me.

Edge is better 2005-2006, and HHH would probably be my 'favourite' of the 3 just for his 2000 and 2005 years where he proved how good he can be in the heel role, whether its a methodical heel or a more overt douche like he was in 05. I find his 2008 probably his best year since 05, and thought he worked well agaisnt Hardy as the ace veteran champion for whatever reason, but those 3 in particular just seemed to have hit a stretch where any match of theirs I watch from like 07 onwards just doesn't strike me as the sort of wrestling I enjoy these days. And I'm a pretty big fan of the WWE style and how a number of wrestlers on the roster utilise it, so again its hard for me to accurately explain what HHH, Edge and Jericho have done to reach this void of drama and emotion I feel when watching their matches. And Orton is well on the way to joining them, he had a number of good matches in 2011 but for whatever reason I just do not look forward to watching him and his monotone style, the Kane matches for example just did not grab me in any way and were just hard for me sit through: whether its his offence, the mannerisms he employs as the 'Viper' or his movements but I just sigh whenever I see Orton wrestle and honestly wouldn't miss him, which is a shame since I find him so much greater and akin to my taste in his 04-06 heel run.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I just want them to go out there and beat the tar out of each other. If they can capture even a bit of the magic of Cena/Lesnar then I'll be happy. I've loved both their brawls so far and I really enjoy watching Brock fuck people up lol. He's just so different from what we're used to seeing in WWE these days and I'm really looking forward to the match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah, Trips/Brock need to be a gimmick match. I'd prefer a Cage Match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Unsanctioned match. Ref just there to count the 3. Gives them free reign to _really_ go murder each other.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Don't even need a ref. Let one guy leave when he's satisfied torturing the other.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

True. Or they could have Trips/Steph's little kids come out and form a barrier around him so Lesnar can't get him only to get kicked out of the way. F'5 to Steph, F'5 to HHH. Boom, game over.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ouch.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuck the lawsuits, they should just make this whole thing about the kids lol. They fucking talked about them enough last night for it to fly, ha. HHH/Steph/Kids vs. Lesnar/Sable/Kids vs. Heyman/wife?/Kids unsanctioned ball pit match. First family to escape the pit wins.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

TKO match. The only way to win is by ref stoppage.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

5 words:

Custody on a Pole Match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Custody of what? All the kids? Fuck. I don't think any of them would want to win that match. That's like 10 kids or something lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match needs to be turned into a tag. HHH & Steph Vs Lesnar & Sable .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Custody of what? All the kids? Fuck. I don't think any of them would want to win that match. That's like 10 kids or something lol.


Custody of all the kids. HHH will take ownership and then send the kids to a restaurant to be superkicked by a ninja like Shawn Michaels.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Fuck the lawsuits, they should just make this whole thing about the kids lol. They fucking talked about them enough last night for it to fly, ha. HHH/Steph/Kids vs. Lesnar/Sable/Kids vs. Heyman/wife?/Kids unsanctioned ball pit match. First family to escape the pit wins.


:lmao:lmao:lmao

Sounds like the idea of a twisted version of FAMILY FEUD.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*WrestleMania XXVII*

Edge/Del Rio ***1/2
Cody/Rey ***1/4
Punk/Orton ***1/2
HHH/Taker ****
Cena/Miz: *


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just ordered the Hard Knocks: the *Chris Benoit Story DVD*, the match selection looks excellent IMO. Anyone else have it?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

zep81 said:


> Just ordered the Hard Knocks: the *Chris Benoit Story DVD*, the match selection looks excellent IMO. Anyone else have it?


Yep, very good DVD that I'd recommend to anybody. It does help that Benoit is my favourite of all time but still, most people should enjoy it as long as they're not shallow enough to hold the murder debacle infront of it. Good buy, tbh (Y)


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Just ordered the Hard Knocks: the *Chris Benoit Story DVD*, the match selection looks excellent IMO. Anyone else have it?


Great DVD, thoroughly enjoyed watching it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cool, thanks guys, nice to see a couple of his Japan matches on there too...


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

How is the Hart and Soul 3 disc set?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> How is the Hart and Soul 3 disc set?


Excellent, helps that i been a Bret mark since i started watching wrasslin' in '88 but really good doc and a great match selection, bit of everything tbh (Y) and as it's still £6.99 on SV - well worth it.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Excellent, helps that i been a Bret mark since i started watching wrasslin' in '88 but really good doc and a great match selection, bit of everything tbh (Y) and as it's still £6.99 on SV - well worth it.


Yeah I recently bought it, just wanted to get some opinions on it. Very good match listing I must say.


----------



## Att-Era-Kanefan (Mar 5, 2012)

Anyone buy the Undertaker Streak dvd? Any good? Any info on whats censored or left out? 

Walmart has it for 20 bucks so im picking it up tonight hopefully, either way. I just reallyyy hope I dont pop it in the dvd player and find out everythings censored somehow... Shouldnt be too much to take out or censor besides blood and maybe the Bossman hanging, especially since he died...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Judgment Day 2003:*

Cena/FBI vs Kendrick/Benoit/Rhyno - **1/2
Way too short, but it's okay while it lasts.

La Resistance vs Scott Steiner/Test - **
Nothing special, just standard tag team action with a screwy finish of sorts.

Team Angle vs Eddie Guerrero/Tajiri - ****
Absolutely awesome ladder match with some great back and forth and great spots from all four men. I didn't expect anything less coming into this, seeing that the wrestlers involved are all of decent size and highly agile.

IC title battle royal - ***1/4
An average battle royal with Booker T once again getting screwed out of the championship as he won it by eliminating Christian but ref was down, so Christian cheated his way back in and eliminated Booker.

Mr. America vs Roddy Piper - *
Get this crap out of Smackdown ffs. I don't give a fuck!

HHH vs Kevin Nash - *
Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring. Wow, Raw truly is awful at this point. No competition for the champion and ever since The Rock has been gone, there really is nothing that entertains me. Funnily enough, it's been a relevant thing to say this year too.

Jazz vs Victoria vs Trish Stratus vs Jacqueline - **1/2
Some okay back and forth action from some of the better female workers in the WWE. Lasts only a few minutes but there are some nice spots including the double submissions.

Brock Lesnar vs Big Show - ***1/4
It's a stretcher match so there is little in-ring action. Starts off rather boring until Rey Mysterio interferes and Brock brings out a forklift. Gets epic from there on and the finish is a highly creative one.

Overall: **1/4 out of ***** (A couple of nice matches and a bunch of other TV-quality at best and boring matches. Very mixed feelings on this one.)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Stretcher match is AWESOME.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Any thoughts on Cena/Punk and Miz/Christian from RAW? Are they any good?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

SCSA/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho ***3/4 ~ Good tag match , could have been a classic with more time.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The fact that Hebner is such an idiot during the entire match REALLY irritates me, but it's still very good.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

The match is brilliant. Amazing babyface and heel performances especially from Austin and Benoit.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> SCSA/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho ***3/4 ~ Good tag match , could have been a classic with more time.


Don't think I've seen anybody else who doesn't overrate this match.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Sparta101 said:


> Any thoughts on Cena/Punk and Miz/Christian from RAW? Are they any good?


Not really. Christian/Miz was average, **.

They really bullshitted Punk/Cena, especially if it was true that a 30 minute overrun was an option. 11 minutes, what the fuck? Punk looked like a total bitch(though I can kind of understand that, considering what happened after the match), it was really a huge disappointment match-wise. ** at best.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> SCSA/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho ***3/4 ~ Good tag match , could have been a classic with more time.


throw another star on there

also what the fuck is up with "could have been a classic with more time", that's like the most regressive, basic level of match evaluation I've ever seen, and I see it all the fucking time from WWE fans. that's not to say there aren't matches that could have used more time, but just saying that doesn't tell me anything about how the match could have been better. how could those four guys have done anything more in the ring? what would you liked to have see them add? what was missing from that match? that's what you should be telling us, instead of "could have been a classic with more time." time alone doesn't make a match good, it's how that time is used, and more time is only useful if there's a key element missing from the match. which, in the Power Trip tag, I don't think there was.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

**** for that tag. Great, but not the GOAT tag or anything.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

KingCal said:


> **** for that tag. Great, but not the GOAT tag or anything.


you have no soul


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

* for the SCSA/HHH vs. Benoit/Jericho Raw tag, only to grind jawbreaker's gears.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

You want a great tag team match give Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs Edge & Rey Mysterio from No Mercy 2002 a watch. One of the best tags I have ever seen. Hell one of the best matches I have seen.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

andersonasshole900 said:


> How is the Hart and Soul 3 disc set?


It has a decent documentary about the entire family, their roots in Canada and the business. I liked it. Then you have some real gems in the match listing. If you don't own them on other sets I advise you pick this one up.


Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs Boston Garden – November 1, 1986 - *****


Bret “Hit Man” Hart vs. British Bulldog SummerSlam – August 29, 1992 - ***** 1/2*


Bret “Hit Man” Hart, Owen Hart, Bruce Hart & Keith Hart vs. Shawn Michaels & His Knights Survivor Series – November 24, 1993 - *** 3/4*


Bret “Hit Man” Hart & Owen Hart vs. Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner Florence, SC – January 11, 1994 - ******


Bret “Hit Man” Hart & Owen Hart vs. The Quebecers Royal Rumble – January 22, 1994 - **** 3/4*


Bret “Hit Man” Hart vs. Owen Hart (Cage Match) SummerSlam – August 29, 1994 - ***** 1/2*


Bret “Hit Man” Hart & British Bulldog vs. Owen Hart & Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart Raw – November 7, 1994 - *** 3/4*


Owen Hart vs. British Bulldog Raw – March 3, 1997 - ***** 3/4*


Bret “Hit Man” Hart, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart & Brian Pillman vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & Legion of Doom In Your House: Canadian Stampede July 6, 1997 - ******


Bret “Hit Man” Hart, Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Undertaker & Dude Love (Flag Match) Raw – July 21, 1997 - **** 1/2*


The Hart Dynasty vs. D-Generation X SmackDown – December 25, 2009 - *** 1/2*


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

andersonasshole900 said:


> You want a great tag team match give Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs Edge & Rey Mysterio from No Mercy 2002 a watch. One of the best tags I have ever seen. Hell one of the best matches I have seen.


Three and a half stars max.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Match listing for Orton's new Superstar Collection dvd, nothin special, lots of repeats.

*3 Stages of Hell Match for the WWE Championship*
Randy Orton vs. Triple H
_The Bash 2009_

*Triple Threat Match for the WWE Championship*
Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. John Cena
_Night of Championship 2009_

Randy Orton vs. Ted DiBiase
_Raw – March 1 2010_

*World Heavyweight Championship Match*
Randy Orton vs. Christian
_Capitol Punishment 2011_

Go here for a shit ton of other news_:_ *http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-randy-orton-dvd-store-exclusives/25726/*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

jawbreaker said:


> you have no soul


Well duh, I'm ginger.

Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992

Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990

Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas - Starrcade 28/12/1992

Hollywood Blonds Vs 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell - Worldwide 08/05/1993

The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express Vs The Midnight Express - WrestleWar 25/02/1990

Better tag matches off the top of my head (aka my WCW List). Too lazy to look up others. NM 02 tag would be higher though. SD rematch too. BL 01 tag (fuck you Andy). Clique tag from Action Zone.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

yes Cal, that is another reason why you have no soul.

SB/MX is probs my favorite American tag ever so I'll give you that one. Not R&R/MX from WrestleWar though. Haven't seen any of the others.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Match listing for Orton's new Superstar Collection dvd, nothin special, lots of repeats.
> 
> *3 Stages of Hell Match for the WWE Championship*
> Randy Orton vs. Triple H
> ...


Orton vs. DiBiase is such a very random pick for the DVD. Was that match any good?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> SCSA/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho ***3/4 ~ Good tag match , could have been a classic with more time.


To me, that's easily ****1/4 and a classic tag match. The first time I watched it, it was so exciting towards the end. And HHH taking the Walls of Jericho right after tearing his quad was epic and a brave spot to say the least.

And WWE really need to stop excluding Benoit from Orton's DVDs and just include him. It does no harm at all if they include the SummerSlam 2004 and No Holds Barred match at Smackdown (26/1/2006).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> And WWE really need to stop excluding Benoit from Orton's DVDs and just include him. It does no harm at all if they include the SummerSlam 2004 and No Holds Barred match at Smackdown (26/1/2006).


I'd say Benoit or Christian is likely Orton best opponent as far as chemistry is concerned. 

Check out these Benoit/Orton matches:

Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit - WWE RAW 08/16/2004
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown 08/18/2005
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - WWE Smackdown 12/30/2005
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - WWE Smackdown 01/13/2006

and of course the two matches you mentioned.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, Orton and Benoit had so much chemistry, every match of theirs is a joy to watch. To rate the ones I've seen:

SummerSlam 2004: ****1/2
Raw 16/8/2004 (rematch): ****
Smackdown 18/8/2005: ***3/4 (it's the one the week before SS 05 where Orlando Jordan interferes, right? And Benoit wears light-blue tights)
Smackdown 13/1/2006: ***1/2 (Sharmell and Booker were too distracting of the action and it felt like it dragged on for too long)
Smackdown 26/1/2006: ****1/4 (AWESOME!)


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

While I was out killing time I decided to stop at my local Walmart to browse around. Ended up picking up a copy of Undertaker's new 20-0 The Streak DVD. It shows the twenty WrestleMania matches and has a little documentary as well. This is a four disc set and my first disc set that goes over three from WWE. Anyways, the documentary I have mixed feelings about. It was pretty cool that they gave a little description on each match and even mentioning Undertakers character changes. It wasn't the worst documentary I've seen produced by WWE, but not the best either. The matches are the same as any other WWE set with multiple event matches. The WWF scratch logo is blurred out, saying WWF is censored, etc. So nothing new there and I'm sure by now everybody here knows about and/or seen a majority to all of Takers Mania matches. Don't think I really need to describe those.

Overall, though it's not a bad set and I'm pretty happy with the purchase. I'd say if you have a spare $20, go pick up a copy. Taker/Michaels at WM25 was the first match on the set I watched. Still love that match and a personal favorite of mine from both Undertaker and Shawn Michaels.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloaded the Undertaker Streak doc. Will be buying the Bluray at some point because I wanna own all his WM matches in HD, but for now I just wanted to see how the doc turned out. Wasn't expecting much once I found out Undertaker wasn't on it and it was only 38 minutes long . Its fine for what it is, and all it is is a recap/highlight video of his WM matches with some of his opponents weighing in on their opinion of the guy. For anyone wondering about the blood being edited out, they show it numerous times in the doc so I think its safe to assume its in the matches too .


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2000*

*Kurt Angle v Tazz* *1/2
*Dudley Boyz v Hardys ( Table Match)* ***3/4
*Miss Rumble 2000* lol I have no words. A SEE IT TO BELIEVE IT SEGMENT.
*Hardcore Holly/ Chyna / Jericho* ***1/4
*New Age Outlaws v Acolytes* *1/2
*HHH/Cactus Jack ( Street Fight)* ****1/2
*Royal Rumble ****1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Got the Zack Ryder DVD for free. A friend ordered the shirt package and figured I'd get more use out of the DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why? Taking up Frisbee?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Perhaps. :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Match listing for Kofi Kingston's new Superstar Collection dvd, which honestly looks more appealing than Orton's (still managed to put out several repeats though):

*Intercontinental Championship Match*
Kofi Kingston vs. Chris Jericho
_Night of Champions 2008_

*World Tag Team Championship Match*
Kofi Kingston & CM Punk vs. Ted DiBiase & Cody Rhodes
_Monday Night Raw – October 27, 2008_

*Money in the Bank Ladder match*
Kofi Kingston vs. CM Punk vs. Mark Henry vs. MVP vs. Finlay vs. Christian vs. Kane
_WrestleMania 25_

Kofi Kingston vs. Randy Orton
_TLC 2009_

*Intercontinental Championship Match*
Kofi Kingston vs. Dolph Ziggler
_Smackdown – January 7, 2011_


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Los Gurreros/Edge and Mysterio/Angle and Benoit SurSer 02 - ***3/4 - ****

Hot damn what a fun match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I purchased Summerslam 2004 today pretty much only for the Orton/Benoit match, which I remember being a great match and I was actually a fan of both guys back then so I'm eager to see it again. 

However, that was the literally the only match I can remember from this PPV and from looking at the PPV card again I can see there is a JBL/Undertaker match, a Angle/Guerrero match, and a Edge/Jericho/Batista match, that I might also be interested in. So I'm wondering what do people think of those matches? Also your thoughts on Summerslam 2004 as a whole?


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Survivor Series 2002 was just epic.

Tables - ***
Cruiser - ***
Hardcore - **
Show/Lesnar - **1/2
Tag Team Elimination - ****1/4
Elimination Chamber - ****1/2

Just so much fun watching this show. Could watch it over and over again.

EDIT - Summerslam 04, didn't really enjoy it to be honest. I think the crowd killed the card. If I remember correctly, they didn't give two shits about Benoit/Orton.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The show was alright. I wouldn't say it was one of the better SummerSlams but decent none-the-less if you're getting it for cheap. HHH/Eugene was better than I thought it could be (I hated how much TV time that feud ate up). Benoit/Orton is match of the night and the moment with them shaking hands "BE A MAN" had an authentic maturation feel for the career of Orton. It felt like a legit pinnacle moment for his young career. Taker/JBL wasn't too special, the crowd was doing their own thing with the wave and other chants. Angle/Eddie is weaker than their WM20 and 2/3 falls match on SD that year but I enjoyed it even if their chemistry didn't reach the standard one would have liked to have seen with ANGLE & GUERRERO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/JBL is pretty awesome, around ***3/4. Benoit/Orton is great, ****. Angle/Eddie is horrible. Triple threat is kinda crappy. HHH/Eugene is fun for HHH being a dick and bullying a retard (I know Yeah93 loves it).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I find that Taker/JBL match completely comical. Mainly because you just can't concentrate on the in-ring action. The crowd are looking towards the limo because one guy got past security and jumped on top of it, then halfway through, they start chanting "Spanish table" and then are doing the wave. I personally found the JBL/Taker matches rather boring.

As for the rest of SummerSlam 04, I have only seen a few matches, Matt Hardy/Kane was okay, Orton/Benoit is a classic and Booker/Cena is around **1/2.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The only Taker/JBL match I _really_ like is the Last Ride Match from No Mercy '04. They had a decent no holds barred TV brawl on SD in 05 when Orton returned to the blue brand after draft/injury. 

They had another match on SD before WM25 too. I guess you could say it was JBL's last 'real' match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucking hated the SS 04 crowd. Fuck anyone who was there. Morons.

Big fan of the JBL/Undertaker matches. They just slugged it out with each other and JBL takes the best big boot ever.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Clique said:


> The show was alright. I wouldn't say it was one of the better SummerSlams but decent none-the-less if you're getting it for cheap. HHH/Eugene was better than I thought it could be (I hated how much TV time that feud ate up). Benoit/Orton is match of the night and the moment with them shaking hands "BE A MAN" had an authentic maturation feel for the career of Orton. It felt like a legit pinnacle moment for his young career. Taker/JBL wasn't too special, the crowd was doing their own thing with the wave and other chants. Angle/Eddie is weaker than their WM20 and 2/3 falls match on SD that year but I enjoyed it even if their chemistry didn't reach the standard one would have liked to have seen with ANGLE & GUERRERO.


I got mine for £5. Really good deal, I was surprised it was that cheap. Nonetheless I asked about the other matches because I don't like buying a PPV for one match, despite how little I paid for it. I'll probably enjoy the Taker/JBL match more than most people because I was a big fan of JBL and his epic WWE Title reign. I'll probably check out the Angle/Guerrero match as well as I enjoyed their WrestleMania match. I'll pass on the HHH/Eugene match. I hated Eugene and his feud with Triple H was awful and I'm surprised that this match got 14 minutes apparently, which is more than the Angle/Guerrero match and the Edge/Jericho/Batista match. Ridiculous.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH was such a hilarious dickhead in that Eugene match and he actually made you believe that Eugene could win at certain points.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I can't remember for the life of me why they started feuding in the first place. Triple H was the biggest star on RAW at the time and Eugene was a mid-card comedy act. So considering that, a match between the two should of lasted like 5 minutes, but yet it got 14 minutes for some reason. I guess they needed a filler feud for Triple H at the time to kill time while Benoit's reign was still going because he already lost to Benoit many times.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It go 14 mins for HHH to act like a dickhead pretty much lol. Hiding behind Lilian, actually treating Eugene like a legit retard. Was great lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's been several years since I've seen it but I remember loving that HHH/Eugene match when I was younger, mainly because of H's huge heel performance and Eugene busted out all those other wrestler's signature moves. SSlam '04 is a pretty great event imo just based on Orton/Benoit alone, which is undoubtedly my favorite moment in wrestling history. 6 man opener is fun too, no one's mentioned that. 

Oh and that SSeries '02 tag match, literally remember nothing but botches.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

I've never fully watched Summerslam 2004 but I heard so much about the crowd that I may need to break out the Summerslam Anthology lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH/Eugene is legit in my top 5 favorite HHH matches. His performance was gold.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It literally upsets me that Angle and Eddie didn't have the kind of chemistry they could've. Hell, I never really liked an Angle vs. Jericho match either.

As for Angle vs. Eddie, my favorite would be their match in 2005. It was during that tournament after WrestleMania to determine the #1 Contender I believe.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, Angle and Eddie never really had good chemistry at all. My favourite match of theirs is the 2 out of 3 falls match from... I forgot. Clique knows .


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'll go a step further: Angle and Eddie had AWFUL chemistry and their match at WrestleMania XX isn't any better than a random house show match. Heck, Cena/Show from the night had me more interested than their match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone else hates their WM match? :mark:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*No Way Out 2000*

*Kurt Angle v Chris Jericho* ****
*Dudley Boyz v NAO * *3/4
*Mark Henry v Viscera * *
*Hardys v E&C* ****
*Tazz v Big Boss Man* *
*X-Pac v Kane***3/4
*Too Cool v Benoit/Malenko/Saturn* ***1/3
*Big Show v Rock ***3/4
*HHH v Cactus Jack* ****1/3


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

KingCal said:


> Someone else hates their WM match? :mark:


Hi.

I think 90% of Angle's stuff after 2003 (except the Undertaker matches) make me feel like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't hate their WM match (Eddie/Angle) but I feel the dead crowd brought it down quite a bit. I really need to check out their 2/3 falls match, though.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*RIVALRY: JOHN CENA VS. DAVE BATISTA

John Cena vs. Dave Batista
WWE Summerslam 2008*

-6 years in the making; the Austin and Rock of the post Attitude Era collide for the first time. Despite my jabs on RAW 2008 this was an underrated match IMO. The build was great simply playing off of their identical careers and who is better. Some good back and forth to start off before Big Dave started to work on the leg; the Flair leg clip and figure 4 leg lock was a nice touch. Cena goes for his signature offense before Dave shuts him down again. Cena DDTs the leg and locks in the STF. Batista counters the FU into the Rear Naked Choke but Cena goes back to the injured leg then Batista hits a spear. Cena counters Batista's powerslam into the FU. The last 5 minutes was great where Batista counters Cena's leg drop into the Batista Bomb and then hits a second one for the win. This was a really good match that often gets overlooked and reignited their careers during a lull period in 2008.
_______

*John Cena vs. Dave Batista- WWE Heavyweight Championship
WWE WrestleMania XXVI*

-The story here is that Batista stole the WWE Title from Cena just after he won it at Elimination Chamber. Batista is pissed that WWE chose Cena to carry the company and not him. Again, great build because the story sold itself and Batista dominated the entire build up to the event. Cena’s entrance looked so out of place because of that Orange attire. Start with the feeling out process, Batista hits a sick clothesline to the back of Cena’s head and starts to work over the head and neck. Batista counters the AA into a Dangerous style DDT. Back to Cena’s neck with the Rear Naked Choke before Cena powers out; they slug before Dave hits a neckbreaker followed with a front chancery. Cena counters and starts his signature spurt he goes for the 5KS and Dave counters with the Spinebuster, then Cena counters into the STF. Spear by Batista, he goes for a Superplex but Cena fights back and hits a top rope 5KS and Batista counters the FU into a Batista Bomb. Cena kicked out, Batista shocked; a bunch of counters then Cena hits the AA. They redo the Summerslam spot then Dave immediately goes for the Batista Bomb but Cena counters into the STF for the win. :mark: Absolutely fantastic title match, I only wish Cena sold the neck more. How in the hell did Cena go from this to his Miz match a year later?
_______

*John Cena vs. Dave Batista- WWE Heavyweight Championship (Last Man Standing Match)
WWE Extreme Rules 2010*

-The rematch from WrestleMania XXVI. Batista claims loss was a fluke so LMS stip to prove who the real champion should be. Lock up to start and after some initial offense; Cena goes for the AA but Dave throws him into the post and Batista starts to work over the legs. Dave hits some offense for the count before going back to the leg. Cena throws Batista into the steel steps and afterwards Batista puts Cena into the figure 4 leg lock but Cena rolls around. Double Clothesline for a count, both gets up and Cena hits his signature spurt so Batista rolls out to avoid the AA. Cena goes around the ring but Dave sneaks him in the gut with a turnbuckle wrench. Cena hits an AA onto a chair for a count. Cena goes up top but Batista pushes the referee into the ropes and follows up with a spear then hits another one. Batista goes to get a table and after setting it up Cena attempts the STF but Batista pushes him back into the table for a count. Batista continues to work over Cena, “I hate you Batista!... I hate you too!” :lol Batista throws Cena through the security wall for a count. Batista sets up Cena for a Powerbomb off the steps but Cena counters with an AA through the announcers table. Cena sets up a table and goes for another AA but Batista counters with a spinebuster through the table but Cena gets up and Batista hits a Batista Bomb. Cena locks the STF for a count. Batista gets up and the finish comes when Cena pulls him into the post and duct tapes his legs together thus preventing Dave from answering the 10 count. This was a great hardcore match with no dull moments and while many hated the finish, it was different and the perfect way to protect Dave while keeping the belt on Cena to set up their final match.
_______

*John Cena vs. Dave Batista- WWE Heavyweight Championship (I Quit Match)
WWE Over The Limit 2010*

-The 4th final match and Batista’s last match in WWE. Batista is angry about the Extreme Rules finish and after Cena wins a match to decide the stipulation he chooses the I Quit Match. Batista starts by talking trash and asks Cena to quit. Cena doesn’t and hits Dave with the mic, Batista hits a clothesline and starts to work over Cena for awhile. Dave hits a suplex, Cena comes back with his signature spurt and hits the 5KS he goes for the AA but Dave uses the referee then counters with the spear. Batista locks in the Batista Bite but Cena doesn’t quit and eventually powers out and locks in the STF; Batista passes out so he can’t quit. Cena throws water on Dave to wake him but he doesn’t quit and hits a spinebuster followed by a Batista Bomb, Cena doesn’t quit. Batista sets up a powerbomb through the announcer’s table but Cena blocks but instead Batista powerslams him through the other announcer’s table. Cena is busted open and doesn’t quit, the match stops for the doctor to cover his wound. Batista throws Cena over the barricade and fight through the crowd going up to the upper region of the arena. Batista tries to powerbomb him off the stair ledge but Cena knocks him off instead. Batista doesn’t quit. Cena starts to take control, taking him to the stage. Batista hits some chair shots to Cena but Cena doesn’t quit Batista gets in the car and attempts to back it into Cena and misses. Cena grabs Batista and starts to take control and AAs Batista onto the car hood, but he doesn’t quit. John Cena takes Dave up to the top of the car and attempts to AA him off the car but Batista quits. John Cena does it anyway for the finish. Not as good as their previous two matches, but a solid brawl and while the finish made sense, it came off as anticlimactic.

****In all the two biggest stars since the Attitude Era put together a really strong string of matches. Their Summerslam match was great, their WrestleMania match was 5-Star quality followed with an equally great rematch at Extreme Rules. Their final match was the weakest but still a solid brawl with good storytelling. Great, underrated feud.*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista and Cena really had great chemistry in their matches. So much for "they can't wrestle to save their lives". That SummerSlam match is a classic.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Big Dave

SS 08: ***1/2 iirc.
WM 26: ***3/4
ER: Can't remember at all
OTL: ***1/2


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Aye, Angle and Eddie never really had good chemistry at all. My favourite match of theirs is the 2 out of 3 falls match from... I forgot. Clique knows .


9/2/2004

Just a fun wrestling match.










PGSucks said:


> As for Angle vs. Eddie, my favorite would be their match in 2005. It was during that tournament after WrestleMania to determine the #1 Contender I believe.


I like this one too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Batista

SS 08 - ***1/2
WM 26 - ***3/4

Didn't really like their other 2 matches.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Hated the OTL match, but the SS, WM & ER ones are awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

High Flyers' set is only a fiver atm:

https://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/Wrestling-s-Highest-Flyers-DVD-3-Discs.html?src=twit

I really like this set tbh.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

^ Just bought that set last night for £7.

Ahh well, will teach me to wait a bit next time.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Silvervision have announced that next week's 'Wild Wednesday' could be the best they have done so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Probably gonna be disappointing . Not sure what they could put on offer for super cheap that I would be interested in aside from WM 28 Bluray.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> ^ Just bought that set last night for £7.
> 
> Ahh well, will teach me to wait a bit next time.


Still well worth the £7 though mate tbh (Y)



andersonasshole900 said:


> Silvervision have announced that next week's 'Wild Wednesday' could be the best they have done so far.


Should be better then than the last couple of weeks, WW are usually all under a tenner arn't they?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Batista/Cena-
SS08- ****
WM25- ***3/4

Don't remember the other two matches well enough to rate them.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah usually around £5-£7 I think.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just looked at the high flyers set. Wow. Absolutely nothing I would want to own the set for lol. Only about 4 matches that are any good, and they are already out on other sets .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

These are the other recent new sale items on SV:

*Best PPV Matches 09-10 Bluray - £6.99
Summerslam 2009 DVD - £4.99
Triple H: The Game & That Damn Good DVD (Tagged Classic) - £5.99
Survivor Series 2010 Bluray - £6.99
Best Of Raw 2010 DVD - £6.99
Hell In A Cell 2010 Bluray - £6.99
Jeff Hardy: My Life, My Rules DVD - £6.99
Best Of Smackdown 09-10 - DVD £6.99 & Bluray £7.99
Royal Rumble 2010 Bluray - £6.99
Rey Mysterio - The Life of a Masked Man DVD (3 Discs) - £6.99*

I may get the Triple H one, i have the other Rey one (Biggest little man) cos
i find that one has better matches overall so not sure about the Masked Man one..


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Silvervision have announced that next week's 'Wild Wednesday' could be the best they have done so far.


Austin Blu-ray


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Austin Blu-ray


Oh, well i have the DVD and don't have a Blu-Ray so that counts me out


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Oh, well i have the DVD and don't have a Blu-Ray so that counts me out


Same lol.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know what it is that's just my guess lol


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah I know, if you are right I wouldn't pick it up is what I am saying.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If it is the Austin Bluray, I'd pick it up for £7/8. Documentary is really really good. Matches... not the best selection in terms of new stuff but still good enough, plus some of the repeats are worth having in HD. Don't think it will be the Austin set though. Not what I would consider "big". Latest WM Bluray came to mind straight away for me. Maybe one of the Anthology sets? Separate of course.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, is it's 'big' id guess one of the Anthology sets maybe, after Xmas ill start collecting those, probably starting with Royal Rumble, what are they like in terms of editing, ill only get Vol 1 and 2 of each up until about 1996 to replace my VHS's.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Editing on the RR Anthology isn't too bad really. RR 2000 is kinda the only one that gets annoying with the WWF Blur, and Cactus Jack's music changed.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

I don't like any of the Cena/Batista matches. Like, at all. The SummerSlam match might be my least favorite of the bunch, too. Never understood why anyone liked it apart from the hot crowd.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I agree with jawbreaker. But I actually think SummerSlam 08 is pretty good unlike Mania 26.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally bought Wrestlemania 19 on DVD, got the Region 1 as it was only a fiver brand new, havn't watched the event in nearly 10 years since it was first aired lol, i remember really liking the Angle/Lesner match and even the McMahon/Hogan too...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best WM ever imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Match listings for the Shawn Michaels & Rey Mysterio Superstar Collection dvds. They definitely look like the best ones so far, but seriously, the amount of repeats is gettin pretty damn ridiculous. It's like they don't even pay attention to what they put out previously...


Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho
_Judgment Day 2008_

D-Generation X vs. Legacy
_SummerSlam 2009_

*No Disqualifications Match*
Shawn Michaels vs. Kane
_Raw – March 22, 2010_

*Streak vs. Career Match*
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker
_WrestleMania XXVI_.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Intercontinental Championship Match
*Rey Mysterio vs. JBL
_WrestleMania 25_

*Mask vs. Intercontinental Championship Match*
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho
_The Bash 2009_

*Intercontinental Championship Match*
Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler
_Night of Champions 2009_

*#1 Contender Steel Cage Match*
Rey Mysterio vs. Batista
_SmackDown – January 15, 2010_

*Rey Mysterio Joins the SES vs. CM Punk’s Hair*
Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk
_Over The Limit 2010_


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Got my Summerslam 2004 DVD today and I watched 4 matches from it and here's my ratings:

Edge vs Jericho vs Batista - Intercontinental Title triple threat match - **1/2

Undertaker vs JBL - WWE Title match - ***

Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero - ***

Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton - World Heavyweight Championship match - ****


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

I watched some random matches from WWE PPV's yesterday and I wanted to know your thoughts on the matches.

Batista vs. The Undertaker - HIAC - Survivor Series 2007 - ***1/2
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - LMS - Royal Rumble 2004 - ***1/2
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23 - ***1/2 (I hated how the leg work didn't end up mattering at all)
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle - Taboo Tuesday 2005 - ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out 2004 - ****1/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Why the hell did Mysterio/JBL make the Rey DVD? :lmao


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Brye said:


> Why the hell did Mysterio/JBL make the Rey DVD? :lmao


:lol

Filler I guess


----------



## FearIs4UP (Apr 8, 2007)

Watching Summerslam 2001 now. A few thoughts:

-I miss Raven. Shane McMahon too.

-Absolutely love the Hardy/RVD ladder match. That was probably my favorite feud as a kid. Some cool spots in that match.

-2001 Kurt Angle is pretty much the best thing ever. His match vs. Austin was awesome and it really deserved a proper ending as opposed to that DQ bullshit it got.

-I loved the Invasion angle. I was like 10 at the time. Looking back on it, they could've done significantly better (I never watched WCW so I didn't know how many greats they were missing), but watching it live, I remember being terrified that the Alliance was gonna win.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Summerslam 2001 certainly is really awesome. Not a bad match on the card.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

FearIs4UP said:


> Watching Summerslam 2001 now. A few thoughts:
> -2001 Kurt Angle is pretty much the best thing ever. His match vs. Austin was awesome and it really deserved a proper ending as opposed to that DQ bullshit it got.


I *love* that match. I think it's in my top 5 Angle matches all time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Austin/Angle is incredible.

As for that RVD/Hardy ladder match, I thought it was nothing more than a botch filled pile of utter shit. Awful, awful match. Their match at Invasion was a million times better .


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

A clean finish would have ruined that match.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Will be watching 'The New And Improved DX' in a few moments.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I heard that dvd isn't very good.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rewatched Mickie James/Trish Stratus from Wrestlemania 22.

May be my favourite women's match ever, i think they work really well together and the crowd was decent for a divas match (obviously being in Chicago) 
This may be high to some people but ***1/2 for me, could even go higher.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Crimson 3:16™ said:


> Will be watching 'The New And Improved DX' in a few moments.


What kind of fan you are will dictate how much you enjoy/detest that particular DVD. If you watched consistently during that era and found DX's Schtick funny, you'll most definitely enjoy the DVD. However, if you enjoy consistent wrestling and you aren't a fan of segment heavy DVD's, you'll hate it. It's very reminiscent of a early 00's superstar feature (done completely in Kayfabe with a mix of matches and segments), that's just *FUN*. Probably one of the worst 3 disc sets out there quality wise, with no amazing matches, but worth a watch depending on who you are.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Bad Blood 2003:*

Rodney Mack/Christopher Nowinski vs Dudley Boyz - **
Scott Steiner vs Test - **1/4
Christian vs Booker T - ***
La Resistance vs Kane/RVD - **3/4
Goldberg vs Chris Jericho - **1/2
Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - ***
HHH vs Kevin Nash - **1/4

Overall: *3/4 out of ***** (Pretty boring and the best matches were only average. The HIAC was as expected, defining the word 'boring'. Until the last few minutes, the whole thing goes slow and the crowd is also dead until the barbwire bat is introduced.)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BB 2003 is a HORRIBLE PPV, although I have the main event at **** 1/2*. To those out there who actually CARE (which means nobody) , I'm still continuing my HHH PPV match reviews and I should have 2008 up tomorrow or tonight. I plan on finishing it all up to coincide with HHH-Lesnar at Summerslam, which is hopefully another **** match from Hunter.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

WWF Championship Match
The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart (C)
One Night Only 

****1/4

A real forgotten gem, love this match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> BB 2003 is a HORRIBLE PPV, although I have the main event at **** 1/2*. To those out there who actually CARE (which means nobody) , I'm still continuing my HHH PPV match reviews and I should have 2008 up tomorrow or tonight. I plan on finishing it all up to coincide with HHH-Lesnar at Summerslam, which is hopefully another **** match from Hunter.


Yeah, BB 03 was awful. The most memorable part for me was the smart-ass fans that were chanting "Goldberg sucks" and that goofy sign at ringside that read "Please Go Away Goldberg". The Flair/HBK match was also okay with some good spots.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, BB 03 was awful.* The most memorable part for me was the smart-ass fans that were chanting "Goldberg sucks" and that goofy sign at ringside that read "Please Go Away Goldberg".* The Flair/HBK match was also okay with some good spots.


:lmao That's awesome.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember Jericho carrying Goldy to what was by far the match of the night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : WM 24 - WM 25*

BL 08 vs JBL vs Randy Orton vs John Cena : **** 1/4*
JD 08 vs Randy Orton : *****
ER 08 vs Randy Orton : *** 3/4*
NOC 08 vs John Cena : ******
GAB 08 vs Edge : **** 1/4*
SS 08 vs Khali : *****
UNF 08 Scramble match : **** 1/4*
NM 08 vs Jeff Hardy : ******
CS 08 vs Jeff Hardy : **** 1/2*
SS 08 vs Kozlov vs Edge : *** 1/4*
Arm 08 vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy : **** 3/4* 
NWO 09 Elimination Chamber : ******
WM 25 vs Randy Orton : *****

Consistency is key in this 08-09 campaign from Hunter, with a whopping THIRTEEN matches wrestled in a year with eleven of them being ***** or higher, and not a single BAD match to be found. Starting off, we have a great 4 way elimination match, which only really starts going when it gets down to just Hunter vs Orton one on one. These two put it in a higher gear than they usually do and upped the pace, and I thought it really helped things here. JBL and Cena added an interesting dynamic, although they both really didn't do much in the end. The King of Kings reigns supreme once again in a good match.

The JD Cage match with Orton is a very old school type cage match, with a VERY slow and methodical pace. If you are bored easily, you might fall asleep through this one, but I love a good old school pace every now and then. There were many escape attempts in this one and I felt that it added a dimension to this match whereas it could end at any possible second. Some good false finishes here. The ONS LMS match with Orton looked like it could have been a GREAT match, but unfortunately due to injury, Orton couldn't finish the match and it had to be cut short. Still worth a watch, it's just a shame that we could have gotten such a great match out of these two and it had to end so abruptly.

The NOC match vs Cena isn't quite as good as their WM encounter from 2 years back in terms of excitement/atmosphere, but this was the superior match in terms of overall WRESTLING. Another great match from Hunter/Cena, who have put out 3 ****** matches out of just 4 one on one contests against each other. This had a great opening sequence that really set the pace for the rest of the match. It dragged a little in the middle and overall I enjoy the WM match more,but this is a fantastic watch with a great climax that you won't want to miss.

Hunter should be given a fucking medal for giving Khali his best match ever. The story with Hunter only needing to hit his home run move to win this one and basically just trying to survive was fucking AWESOME, and way better than anything Khali has ever been involved in. This is better than the Undertaker LMS vs Khali simply because IIRC , that particular match was heavily edited from the tapings and manufactured to look decent when it aired on Television. One of the more impressive matches Hunter has taken place in, simply because of this fact ; It's harder to go out there and get 3 stars out of Khali than it is to get 4 stars out of HBK or The Undertaker. Fantastic job, and one of Hunter's best face performances.

The championship scramble is what it is. Nobody besides Hunter or Jeff really had a chance, although it was fucking awesome to see Brian Kendrick be champion for so fucking long before basically being squashed like a bug by Hunter. There was some great workrate here in the beginning, but things really started he heat up once Hunter entered the matchup. The ending sequence is awesome as well, and continued the story between Hunter and Jeff. A great little forgettable scramble match,and another great performance by HHH.

The two Hardy matches are in short ; Awesome. I don't like Jeff at all, but I have no doubt in my mind that Hunter is his greatest opponent. The paces that these two matches work at is absolutely insane, and the move sequences mixed with psychology (especially in the No Mercy match with the superior back work by Hunter FTW) set these matches apart from anything that Jeff has done with anybody else in singles competition (Save for CM Punk, which I'll get to someday). I might be even slightly underrating both of these matches, but I still think they are fantastic contests that shows us that a story can be continued for a really long time if executed correctly. The Cyber Sunday match is basically No Mercy-LITE , because it's essentially the same match minus the great back work and a little slower pace, however it is still an awesome match in it's own right.

The Kozlov match , while it does NOT deserve the hate that it gets (Meltzer said it was the worst match of the year, what the fuck is wrong with him) because of the good storytelling (Kozlov is unbeaten, so HHH won't break out his full moveset on him, therefore both men keep it down to the bare basics) and the decent mat exchanges, but until the end of the match, this is just DULL. Not a bad match by any means, but Kozlov isn't the greatest in ring worker for a guy like Hunter, the resurgence of Edge makes this match atleast watchable once. Not Hunter's best work in the slightest, but it's not even bad at all.

The Armageddon triple threat is a great fast paced match with a distinct story ; Edge has turned Hardy and HHH against one another. Once a respectful relationship has turned sour, however both men put these emotions aside and set their crossfires on Edge. Really spotty at times, but these spots are done at just the right times and they add to the story that is being told. The ending is fantastic and it serves as a culmination of events that began at last year's Armageddon ; Every time Jeff get's close to winning the title, he barely misses it. Just when it looks like this will repeat again, Jeff shocks the world. The emotion was incredible, and I came away after this match and the Hunter series in general with a whole new world of respect for Jeff. Awesome match.

The NWO chamber was a very fantastic match, with the obvious highlight being the final 2 (Hunter and Undertaker), and the many false finishes and exciting moments between the two. We start off fast and the pace just escalates, with Edge being eliminated. I thought this was a fantastic way to build story and drama for this chamber in particular, as all eyes were on who would take the title home ; Jeff, Hunter, or Taker. Jeff is the spot monkey for this match, and manages to play his role to a tee. This match isn't as good as last year's HHH chamber simply because of the dead spot in the middle of the match where Kozlov and Show use some very bare bones and shitty offensive moves on Jeff and it was boring as fuck. The Hunter-Taker stuff was fantastic and a precursor to what we would get in the future. Great stuff all around, and one of the better chamber matches.

I rewatched the WM XXV match between Orton and Triple H , and I dropped a half a star on it. Now don't get me wrong, I still think it's one of the most underrated matches that I have ever seen with some very very fluent storytelling... It's just the pace...The pace is fucking HORRENDOUS. This is one of the worst paced matches I've ever seen. The spots are good and the emotion is there for me with it being the 25th mania main event and all, I just think this had *****+* potential with a great story and all the hype, and I feel that the whole "HHH's retribution" story was awesome, despite what you Hunter haters may say. I still LOVE this match despite the pace, as it's another feel good HHH mania moment (since Hunter loses every classic Mania match that he ever takes part in) . Hell I might even get the signed plaque for this match someday 

So there you have it, a few **** matches, with most of them falling into the "good, but not great" category. Each of these matches entertained me for the most part anyways. Two more of these posts should get this done, one up to WM 26 , and one from ER 2010-Present. Then once Summerslam is complete, I can rank all 150 matches (in which I already have many many matches ranked) from best to worst. Let me know what you think. REALLY excited to rewatch alot of these matches, 13 matches left to review


----------



## Loader230 (Jul 7, 2012)

That No Mercy Match between HHH and jeff hardy is one of all time fav matches. Damn good imo ****3/4.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got the NM Hardy/Trips match at ****1/2 and the CS one at ****. Love those matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple H PPV Matches : WM 24 - WM 25

BL 08 vs JBL vs Randy Orton vs John Cena : ***
JD 08 vs Randy Orton : **1/2
ER 08 vs Randy Orton : **
NOC 08 vs John Cena : ****
GAB 08 vs Edge : ***1/4
SS 08 vs Khali : *
UNF 08 Scramble match : ***1/4
NM 08 vs Jeff Hardy : ****1/4
CS 08 vs Jeff Hardy : ***1/4
SS 08 vs Kozlov vs Edge : *1/2
Arm 08 vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy : ***1/2
NWO 09 Elimination Chamber : ****
WM 25 vs Orton: **1/2

Started off a bit weak with a series of matches with Orton, that we were thankfully spared of lasting any longer due to Orton's injury (though I never wish injury on anyone), but they did seem to be getting something going in the LMS before Orton got injured. 

The NOC Cena/HHH match is vastly superior to their WM22 match, and probably the best Cena/HHH match... either this or the Raw match in 09 before Bragging Rights(?). Excellent match with a predictable, but still great result. Cena is one of the few guys I'll always root for HHH against. 

Edge/HHH was a good little match. Shame we never got to see them compete on a bigger stage as this match just felt like a warm-up round for them. 

That HHH/Khali match wasn't any better than any of Khali's other matches imo... well it was, but it's still always a shit watch for me, and while the Taker/Khali match was heavily edited, from what we can see it was probably Khali's best match... either that or the Cena/Khali ONS (?) match, and those weren't exactly good either. Match wasn't anything special, but I guess HHH did better than a dud with Khali, which are 75% of Khali's matches. So yeah... not quite as high on the Khali match as K1ngofK1ngs. 

The Jeff Hardy series is overall good. The gem of it is the No Mercy match, which is a borderline classic and Jeff Hardy's best match. A fantastically wrestled match, and HHH just barely beating Hardy pushed the whole Hardy being "so close". Same thing with the scramble match. The CS was a good match, but probably their weakest of the three singles PPV matches.

The HHH/Kozlov match... I wouldn't disagree with what Meltzer said, but I'm not sure. It definitely was the worst title match of the year. However for me it's probably the most boring match of all time, and that's what really drags it down. I don't know how long the match is but it feels like it goes on for 30 minutes, no joke. The wrestling wasn't anything special, the pace was terrible, I'm not really sure why they let this happen. I'm all for the Edge stuff, but I think a triple threat from the get-go between Hardy, HHH, and Kozlov would've been much better, and then they do the Edge thing. Guess it played well into the story for the Armageddon match.

Armageddon triple threat was a great match, but can't remember too much about it, but I remember I had it at ***1/2. Need to re-watch.

The EC was excellent for the Taker/Hardy/HHH, and then the Taker/HHH interaction. IMO it was Taker and HHH's best back and fourth of any match they've had. Honestly that was **** alone to me. HHH beating Taker though... HHH can go suck a nut. 

And WM25... well... it wasn't the worst match ever, but goes down as one of the most disappointing matches of all time. They had the story, they had the stage, they had the main event, but the performance from both was mediocre, the match type should've been NO DQ, the wrong man won, and the crowd was still dead from the Taker/HBK match. Match is meh.

Not quite as high on the year as K1ngofK1ngs for HHH (but then again I never am, am I?  ) but I do agree HHH all around was consistent. Some **** matches, several *** matches there, and overall a good little year for HHH. Some blemishes, mainly with Orton, but not a shabby year. 

WM25-WM26... started off bad but got better. The Backlash/ER (whatever it was called at the time) 6-man tag was mediocre from what I remember, and the 3SOH with Orton was terrible. However there was that great series with Legacy, the awesome triple threat match with HBK and Cena at SVS, the great TLC match with Jerishow, the EC was good, and he had a good WM match with Sheamus.


---

And actually this reminds me of my Taker reviews. I'm stuck on 2001... I can't find any desire to watch it. 75% of Taker's PPV matches were tag matches. I may just review the non-tag matches or skip right to 2002 and come back to 2001 when I feel up with it. I'm actually looking forward to reviewing Taker's 2002, as Taker actually had a very good year overall, not just on PPV, but he had some great TV matches as well. Looking forward to that.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> What kind of fan you are will dictate how much you enjoy/detest that particular DVD. If you watched consistently during that era and found DX's Schtick funny, you'll most definitely enjoy the DVD. However, if you enjoy consistent wrestling and you aren't a fan of segment heavy DVD's, you'll hate it. It's very reminiscent of a early 00's superstar feature (done completely in Kayfabe with a mix of matches and segments), that's just *FUN*. Probably one of the worst 3 disc sets out there quality wise, with no amazing matches, but worth a watch depending on who you are.


I'm a fan of those backstage skits and stuff and yeah, I've really enjoyed what I've watched so far. I didn't watch WWE from late '04-05 to 2010 so some of the stuff on this DVD seemed new to me. Finished with disc one so far, this is one long long home video!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So, Silvervision's "big" Wild Wednesday this week is... a load of bollacks.










Talk about a fucking disappointment. Ah well, saves me spending any money.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh well, i did think it would be that or the new Edge one tbh...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

No blu ray offer either, their deal for the Ladder Match blu ray was better than this.

Will not be getting this, the blu ray is £12 at cex, may try and look for that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Does seem like a bit of a letdown tbh, esp. with thier 'biggest ever' type claim, i mean, when thet new Stone Cold one came out it wasn't long till that was saled down to £6.99 for ages, not on a WW, i know The Rock DVD is a newer release but hey-ho, good news for those that don't have it though i suppose and that couldv'e easily been me if i had not have bought it before so hopefully next week theer may be one i want...

I wish they'd offer an older PPV, like from 2002, that ere still priced at over 310, or the story of WM set would be nice, or any of the older sets that still high-priced.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Called my local Tesco this morning and asked if they had the WM 28 DVD in stock. Said they had loads.

So I went to pick one up at about 12pm and they had all been bought. My fucking luck.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

holy fuck did I just see someone call HHH/Kozlov/Edge something other than a bad match

haven't watched any of those HHH PPV matches since they happened but I remember hating the Khali match, all the Orton matches, and that fucking horrendous Survivor Series match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

HHH/Kozlov @ Survivor Series was terrible. Edge saved the match JUST because it was so awesome having him back and he had his epic HEEL beard.










But before that it was horrible to watch *** at the most for me, but after Edge returning it's bumped to **1/2*


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

SilverVision, you disappoint me


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> So, Silvervision's "big" Wild Wednesday this week is... a load of bollacks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lmao they did it just to fuck with you


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Those bastards .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Even with Edge's epic heel beard and return, I can only give HHH/Kozlov/Edge * because of the catastrophe that was 95% of the match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH/Kozlov just might be HHH's worst/most boring match ever. It wasn't even so bad it was funny and you could laugh at it like the Steiner matches lol. It was just fucking BAD. 

If that Rock offer included blu-ray I would have bought it but just DVD? They can fuck off.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Last match i watched was the 'I Quit' Steel Cage match - Starrcade 1985 - Blanchard/Magnum

Im not great at assessing star ratings but this is one of my all time favorite matches, so intense and brutal, with two great talents, also forgot Hebner was the ref lol!!

Just about to watch Vader-Flair - Starrcade 1993, always a fave of mine too, excellent match, Flair is superb.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Brye said:


> Even with Edge's epic heel beard and return, I can only give HHH/Kozlov/Edge * because of the catastrophe that was 95% of the match.


This. I'd say this match is a good cure for insomnia.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> HHH/Kozlov just might be HHH's worst/most boring match ever. It wasn't even so bad it was funny and you could laugh at it like the Steiner matches lol. It was just fucking BAD.


Agreed on that. It's literally a match where NOTHING happens until the Edge/Hardy stuff.


----------



## dgeneration-nexus (Jan 5, 2011)

KingCal said:


> So, Silvervision's "big" Wild Wednesday this week is... a load of bollacks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Urm, why is anyone disappointed? I'm sure happy, I was going to buy this when I got paid anyway and now I'm saving a significant amount. As a Rock fan, I'm happy.


----------



## The Livid One (Jun 25, 2012)

*The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/7842/the-50-greatest-finishing-moves-in-wwe-history-dvd-listing

_50. JBL - Clothesline
49. Vader - Vader Bomb
48. Dusty Rhodes - Bionic Elbow
47. Million Dollar Man - Million Dollar Dream
46. Kerry Von Erich - Iron Claw
45. Ravishing Rick Rude - Rude Awakening
44. Lex Luger - Torture Rack
43. Dudley Boyz - 3-D
42. Bam Bam Bigelow - Moonsault
41. DDP - Diamond Cutter
40. Mankind - Mandible Claw / Socko
39. Honky Tonk Man - Shake Rattle and Roll
38. Yokozuna - Bonzai Drop
37. Flash Funk - 450 Splash
36. Sting - Scorpion Lock
35. Lita - Moonsault
34. Kevin Nash - Jack-knife
33. Jerry The King Lawler - Piledriver
32. RVD - Five-Star Frog Splash
31. Big Show - Chokeslam
30. CM Punk - GTS
29. Brock Lesnar - F-5
28. Bob Backlund - Chicken Wing
27. Batista - Batista Bomb
26. Mr. Perfect - Perfect Plex
25. Kurt Angle - Ankle Lock
24. Chris Jericho - Lion Tamer / Walls of Jericho
23. Edge - Spear
22. Iron Sheik - Camel Clutch
21. John Cena - Attitude Adjustment
20. Scott Hall - Razors Edge
19. Goldberg - Jackhammer
18. Rey Mysterio - 6-1-9
17. Road Warriors - Doomsday Device
16. Bruno Sammartino - Bearhug
15. Sgt. Slaughter - Cobra Clutch
14. Jeff Hardy - Swanton Bomb
13. Eddie Guerrero - Frog Splash
12. Macho Man Randy Savage - Elbow off Top Rope
11. Randy Orton - RKO
10. Bret Hitman Hart - Sharpshooter
9. Jimmy Superfly Snuka - Superfly Splash
8. Nature Boy Ric Flair - Figure Four Leg Lock
7. Hulk Hogan - Leg Drop
6. Shawn Michaels - Sweet Chin Music
5. Jake The Snake Roberts - DDT
4. The Rock - Rock Bottom / Peoples Elbow
3. Triple H - Pedigree
2. Undertaker - Tombstone Piledriver
1. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Stunner

Bonus: Booker T - Spinarooni
Bonus: John Morrison - Starship Pain
Bonus: Scotty Too Hotty - The Worm
Bonus: Rikishi - Stinkface
Bonus: Shane McMahon - Coast to Coast
Bonus: Billy Kidman - Shooting Star Press_


All i can say is :ti


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

zep81 said:


> Last match i watched was the 'I Quit' Steel Cage match - Starrcade 1985 - Blanchard/Magnum
> 
> Im not great at assessing star ratings but this is one of my all time favorite matches, so intense and brutal, with two great talents, also forgot Hebner was the ref lol!!
> 
> Just about to watch Vader-Flair - Starrcade 1993, always a fave of mine too, excellent match, Flair is superb.


Absolutely amazing match. There literally isn't one thing I'd change about it. MOTY for 85, IMO, from what I've seen anyway. Tully was in a league of his own throughout the mid-eighties and even though I'm not exactly a huge Magnum fan, he definitely performed well in this match. An easy ***** for me and I recommend it to any wrestling fan, young or old.


----------



## WWCturbo (Jun 21, 2012)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

This list seems so random...


----------



## Scottish-Suplex (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

Looks more like a list of well-remembered wrestlers which also happens to mention their finishers.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

dgeneration-nexus said:


> Urm, why is anyone disappointed? I'm sure happy, I was going to buy this when I got paid anyway and now I'm saving a significant amount. As a Rock fan, I'm happy.


Well, mainly because SV hyped this up as being the biggest Wild Wednesday deal ever... and all they put on sale was a basic 3 disc set. Nothing special about it whatsoever. We were expecting something HUGE. Anthology sets, WM 28 despite the fact its just been released... something like that.

Secondly (for me anyway), its a Rock set. I don't want a Rock set. A collection of Rock matches isn't something I give a flying fuck about .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I agree, for someone who likes The Rock and who doesn't have it it's great, i do have it but im just suprised, like Cal said, it isn't something else, like i say, not long after the Austin DVD came out it was £6.99 for ages and that, in terms of popularity, is surely on a par with The Rock DVD, biggest ever SV said - really?


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

In other words, this is the same list as the "50 Greatest Superstars of all time" except with finishers instead. 

How the fuck is the Spinaroonie a finisher?


----------



## dgeneration-nexus (Jan 5, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Well, mainly because SV hyped this up as being the biggest Wild Wednesday deal ever... and all they put on sale was a basic 3 disc set. Nothing special about it whatsoever. We were expecting something HUGE. Anthology sets, WM 28 despite the fact its just been released... something like that.
> 
> Secondly (for me anyway), its a Rock set. I don't want a Rock set. A collection of Rock matches isn't something I give a flying fuck about .


This is a classic example of why I need to read a few pages before posting, I didn't realise SV had hyped it up as the best ever, I just saw Rock DVD 8.99 and got giddy!

Off topic, the 50 greatest finisher list came out. How in the bluest of blue hells does the AA come ahead of the F5!?


----------



## dgeneration-nexus (Jan 5, 2011)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

AA > F5 :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

dgeneration-nexus said:


> This is a classic example of why I need to read a few pages before posting, I didn't realise SV had hyped it up as the best ever, I just saw Rock DVD 8.99 and got giddy!
> 
> Off topic, the 50 greatest finisher list came out. *How in the bluest of blue hells does the AA come ahead of the F5!?*


It's Cena syndrome baby :frustrate


----------



## WWEedgeLitaR101 (Dec 16, 2011)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

Not surprised at the finishers listed,and at Stone Cold being number 1.
I'm glad that Lita is the only diva on it though;awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

What a horrible list. I don't know what the Spinaroonie, The Worm and Stinkface are doing here. And then they exclude the Crossface, the greatest submission finisher of all time.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

Kayfabe lives!!!


----------



## The Storm (Mar 23, 2010)

*Re: The '50 Greatest Finishing Moves In WWE History' DVD Listing*

My question is...who the fuck would buy a DVD with just clips of finishing moves. I'll watch finishing moves on youtube thanks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

^^ Hasn't it got full matchs included too?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yes they have plenty of TV matches as extras



> Sgt. Slaughter Demonstrates The Cobra Clutch on Tony Anthony
> World Wide Wrestling - 10th December, 1981
> 
> DDT vs. Rude Awakening Match
> ...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Sheamus Raw - ****

Awesome contest. As much shit as we've had this year, I've been LOVING the absolute shit out of the WHC/WWE title scene. Bryan, Sheamus, Punk, Ziggler, Jericho and even KANE have provided us with a bunch of awesome matches so far, plenty in the ****+ range too.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Title scenes have been great this year

Wasn't super keen on the Elimination Chambers and obviously Sheamus/Bryan and Mania but apart from that I can't really think of any WWE or WHC title match I haven't enjoyed this year

The titles are almost taking on an 1980s early 1990s Intercontinental role where the matches aren't the main event but are the matches people remember and are always good


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Bryan/Sheamus Raw - ****
> 
> Awesome contest. As much shit as we've had this year, I've been LOVING the absolute shit out of the WHC/WWE title scene. Bryan, Sheamus, Punk, Ziggler, Jericho and even KANE have provided us with a bunch of awesome matches so far, plenty in the ****+ range too.


As good as Extreme Rules?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, Extreme Rules match was better (****1/2 for that).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bryan/Sheamus was very good in parts, though I'm reaching a point where WWE street fights irritate me, just a fair few choreographed spots for my liking. But the strikes were great, the running knee off the stage and the fall Sheamus took were both killer, the suplex on the floor and the fallaway slam into the barricade were also smart spots, and I liked how both men just roughed each other up and made the escalation into brawling on the stage and then bringing weapons into the mix seem like a natural progression instead of being lazily relied upon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like how WWE have us the "choice" for which match they would have. A No Holds Barred aka No DQ match, a Falls Count Anywhere aka No DQ Match, and a Street Fight aka No DQ match :lmao.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*** 1/4 for Bryan/Sheamus. Very good TV match. They hit hard, worked hard in this match with some good spots especially that flying knee off the stage. Really liked the stiff kicks and kendo stick shots. If we can get longer matches at this level or better every week that is a big plus for 3-hour Raw.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

***3/4 for the street fight, great tv match. First 3 hour raw and we get 3 matches with good time. Hopefully this is a consistent thing.


----------



## joeisgonnakillyou (Jul 8, 2011)

Bryan vs Sheamus ****? what's the story behind the match?

Anyway, I still think it's going to be punk vs the rock. 
Maybe I'm being to naive and they are going to do cena vs the rock II, who knows.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got Bryan/Sheamus at ***3/4. Was pleasantly surprised when it wasn't just Bryan losing in 5 minutes. These two have wonderful chemistry.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

I really enjoyed Sheamus/Bryan last night. I was pleasantly with how much time it got and it turned out to be a great match. If these 3-hour Raws mean longer matches, then I'm all for it.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Ordered the SmackDown 10th anniversary DVD. Anyone know the matches it has on it? And any thoughts on the DVD as a whole?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Ordered the SmackDown 10th anniversary DVD. Anyone know the matches it has on it? And any thoughts on the DVD as a whole?


It's a good DVD, I remember Edge/Eddie being on it, and TLC III is shown but it's only highlights. There is the Orton/Undertaker casket match also, and Jericho/Chyna. But in general, it just takes you through the best Smackdown moments and it is a really easy, fun watch. Moreso than the RAW 15 an set, which is a struggle to get though.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> It's a good DVD, I remember Edge/Eddie being on it, and TLC III is shown but it's only highlights. There is the Orton/Undertaker casket match also, and Jericho/Chyna. But in general, it just takes you through the best Smackdown moments and it is a really easy, fun watch. Moreso than the RAW 15 an set, which is a struggle to get though.


Nice . To be honest with you I purchased the set for the SmackDown moments, because I could imagine it being a really fun watch, just wondered what matches were included, thanks mate.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*** for Bryan/Sheamus

As much as I dislike Sheamus, I will admit he has had his fair share of good matches.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Thinking of buying Rey Musterio: Life of a Masked Man. Any thoughts on the set?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Randy Orton vs John Cena (Bragging Rights 2009, Ironman match) - ****

A great match to be fair. It was a bit divided with Orton in control of the middle of the hour and Cena pretty much dominating the last 20 minutes while also forgetting to sell the ass-whopping he received from Orton. But overall, it's highly enjoyable for a match that lasts one hour. There were also some cool spots, most of all when Orton was messing with the pyro-technique by the ramp. A great 'psycho heel' performance by him where he destroyed Cena during his offense and even busted him open in the PG era. Cena then made his usual comeback but this one was a lot longer and was not as simple as 5 moves of doom --> pinfall --> victory. I think the finish was kind of stupid, though. Regardless of how much pain you are in, it's just stupid no matter how you look at it to tap out 5 seconds before the time expires. If Orton held on for about 30 seconds, he could have easily gone 5 seconds more. In such cases, the best finish would be Cena giving an FU, Orton kicks out, there's 10 seconds left, Cena gives him another FU and quickly pins him in the last 5 seconds to get the victory.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Thinking of buying Rey Musterio: Life of a Masked Man. Any thoughts on the set?


I'm a huge Rey Mysterio fan, have been for about a decade now, so I was going to enjoy it either way but I thought it could have had a stronger match selection. The interview segments in-between matches with Matt Striker are nice and there are some gems on there so if you see it for a good price pick it up. Biggest Little Man is the definitive Rey Mysterio collection I believe.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Clique said:


> I'm a huge Rey Mysterio fan, have been for about a decade now, so I was going to enjoy it either way but I thought it could have had a stronger match selection. The interview segments in-between matches with Matt Striker are nice and there are some gems on there so if you see it for a good price pick it up. Biggest Little Man is the definitive Rey Mysterio collection I believe.


Both 3 disc sets are the same price. So you recommend Biggest Little Man over Life of a Masked man?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Without question, Biggest Little Man is the better Mysterio set.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cover art and some synopsis for the "new" Lesnar dvd.


> *The night after WrestleMania XXVIII, Brock Lesnar made a shocking return to the ring and leveled John Cena with an F-5, sending a message that after 8 years, the pain is back. In 2002 & 2003, “The Next Big Thing” brought it to the biggest & baddest competition in WWE, becoming the youngest WWE Champion of all time, and a household name overnight. His awe-inspiring physique, amateur championship pedigree and affinity for punishing opponents made him an unstoppable force in the ring.*
> 
> *Now, after years of dominating the MMA scene, Brock is back and looking to steamroll the biggest Superstars of today. This DVD set includes the original 2003 documentary ‘Here Comes The Pain’ plus 30 minutes of new interview footage, and 6 hours of matches not included in the original DVD. Featuring classic matches against Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & more, plus Brock’s controversial comments upon his return to sports entertainment!*
> 
> *We’ve been told that the matches include some from Brock’s first run in WWE, some OVW matches vs. Cena & Batista, and it will also include Brock’s new interviews from his return in April. Brock’s Extreme Rules match with Cena will be a Blu-ray exclusive, making the Blu-ray the only way to own this match in HD, since Extreme Rules was not released on Blu-ray*.


Thoughts?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Anyone know how much Angle content is on there?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The first time the DVD was released in 2003 it featured the WM19 match with Kurt Angle. I would like for this new release to also feature the SummerSlam 2003 match with Angle. I would also like to see Lesnar/Taker No Mercy 03 and Lesnar/Mysterio SD 12/11/03 make the cut if there's space.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> Without question, Biggest Little Man is the better Mysterio set.


I second that, the match selection is awesome, I was thinking myself about getting life of a masked man but the match selection doesn't really compare to biggest little man..

I never got round to getting the original here comes the pain DVD so from my perpective I'll be getting the new one, wonder if it'll include any matches from the original release, like the stretcher match VS Big Show..


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My mate bought me a copy of WM24 DVD off Ebay for me, it was the Special Tin Edition, only a tenner, still some left for anyone else that may want it:

http://tiny.cc/6ywciw


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Came across this tweet from one Mr. Kurt Angle. I thought it might spark some interesting discussion in here lol. 



> Kurt Angle ‏@RealKurtAngle
> Psychology is not about 1000 Moves. It's About Incorperating Your Key Moves In Ur Matches. I Do it the Best. Thk U!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is Kurt drunk tweeting again?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I considered getting the new Rock dvd for Wild Wednesday. But honestly the match selection isn't great and I have seen quite a few of them before.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Came across this tweet from one Mr. Kurt Angle. I thought it might spark some interesting discussion in here lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hyuck.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just bought the Rock dvd on Wild Wednesday, kept wanting to buy it but couldn't justify 22quid for it.

Interested by the Lesnar dvd because he had some pretty good matches in his first run and hopefully extreme rules makes it on


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Came across this tweet from one Mr. Kurt Angle. I thought it might spark some interesting discussion in here lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's about one move done many times with AGGRESSION.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

i think he's confusing "best" with "most"


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So much for discussion. You're all taking the piss....as was expected lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I was just appalled by Angle's grammar.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Incorperation.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I pretty much refuse to discuss my stance on Angle and his in ring shit any more . I'll make the odd comments here and there, but no way in HELL am I gonna say yet again why I think he sucks, since it just results in a bunch of morons screaming shit at me because I don't love Angle like they do and they refuse to accept that he's anything less than the GOAT .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Incorperate what you're feeling, Cal. Incorperate your feelings so we can feel what you're feeling. You feel me?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

In the words of Stone Cold Steve Austin... What?


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I never really got why Angle is held in such high regard with the majority of the IWC. I think it has something to do with the idea that he has a very legit wrestling background and therefore he is instantly a great wrestler in their minds. (The same thing applies with Jack Swagger. I can't name one good redeeming quality about his ring-work, but he has always been considered a good worker because of his mat-wrestling background)

I've been tempted recently to open a topic asking Angle fans why they find him so great in the ring, but I think it won't end well just by judging how people react when the phrases 'Kurt Angle' and 'Spot Monkey' are in the same sentence.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 2000*

*E&C/Hardys/Dudleyz* ****1/2
*Benoit/Angle/Jericho ****1/4
*F4W* ****

Everything else was horrible, probably drove some of the ratings for the good matches up.

*Backlash 2000*

*Road Dogg & X-Pacc/E&C * **1/2
*Scotty 2 Hotty / Malenko* ***1/4
*Big Boss Man&Buchanan / APA * *1/4
*Hardcore Title Match* **3/4
*Big Show / Angle* *1/2
*Dudleyz/T&A* ***
*Guerrero/Essa Rios* **1/2
*Jericho/Benoit* ***3/4
*Rock/HHH* ****3/4


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Cactus said:


> I never really got why Angle is held in such high regard with the majority of the IWC. I think it has something to do with the idea that he has a very legit wrestling background and therefore he is instantly a great wrestler in their minds. (The same thing applies with Jack Swagger. I can't name one good redeeming quality about his ring-work, but he has always been considered a good worker because of his mat-wrestling background)
> 
> I've been tempted recently to open a topic asking Angle fans why they find him so great in the ring, but I think it won't end well just by judging how people react when the phrases 'Kurt Angle' and 'Spot Monkey' are in the same sentence.


He's usually really fun to watch. Then again, I found Morrison quite fun to watch too and he was absolutely annihilated by the Z0MG SPOT MONKEE comments...


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Morrison was fun to watch because he could take good bumps and sell acceptably, and didn't spam his big moves. I can't remember seeing a Morrison match where he hit six finishers and lost. Not a great wrestler, but not Kurt Angle bad either.

here's what I said about Charlie Haas one time, but it's equally applicable to Angle:




jawbreaker said:


> and yet people still think he's good because of his amateur background of all things. amateur wrestling has nothing to do with pro wrestling except for the name. _literally nothing_. they are fundamentally different activities. amateur wrestling is about wrestling against another competitor who is also trying to beat you. pro wrestling is about working with another performer to create the illusion that you are trying to beat each other. they are not the same thing and have incredibly little to do with one another. but since Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar happened to understand how pro wrestling worked, and have the athleticism to excel at both, people think there's some kind of correlation between amateur and pro wrestling skill. there isn't, and the perpetuation of that myth shows an absurd level of misunderstanding of what wrestling is.


(I realize I included something positive about Angle in there, it's referring to his 2000-02 work, which was really good, not his 2009-2012 work, which is atrocious)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think that since around 07, Angle is at his best when he's limited, hence why I loved the Angle/Styles vs. Daniels/Kaz tag team match at Slammiversary (TNA I know, but still Angle.) I generally would have enjoyed those two teaming up for a while longer, with the majority of the matches remaining fairly similar in terms of structure. An early onslaught from Angle/Styles, followed by the other team singling out Styles and dominating, building up to the hot tag where Angle has four or five minutes just to kill everything in site.

It almost made his SPOTZ~! make sense, seeing as he's been on the apron for ten minutes, he's fully rested etc. and he needed to turn everything around, and it was just fun, and I wouldn't have minded him doing that for a few months. It also keeps him out of the World Title picture and it puts some star-studded quality in to the tag division.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> In the words of Stone Cold Steve Austin... What?







As for Angle, yeah, a lot of times he relies on spots but I'm not averse to spots. Really, so long as I'm entertained I really don't give a shit although I will deduct points for lack of storytelling. That's the most important thing for me. Storytelling + general entertainment.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just rewatched Summerslam 2011 on dvd. I must say the first with the exception of the 6-man tag is rather slow. Cee Lo Green is just awful. However the second half Bryan/Barrett Christian/Orton and Cena/Punk all make up for this and make this Summerslam a good one.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Just rewatched Summerslam 2011 on dvd. I must say the first with the exception of the 6-man tag is rather slow. Cee Lo Green is just awful. However the second half Bryan/Barrett Christian/Orton and Cena/Punk all make up for this and make this Summerslam a good one.


Christian/Orton ****3/4 and Punk/Cena like ****1/4 or 1/2. Really great matches.

Just realised that rating puts it as Christian's and Orton's best singles match ever, for me.


----------



## The Streak (Apr 5, 2009)

Cut the crap about people thinking Angle is good cos of his background blah blah blah, he's one of the best fucking wrestlers of all time in the ring. He could carry you to a good match.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

The Streak said:


> Cut the crap about people thinking Angle is good cos of his background blah blah blah, he's one of the best fucking wrestlers of all time in the ring. He could carry you to a good match.


You haven't told me _why_ Angle is so fantastic to you. What are his qualities and best performances?


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

This is the same Angle that called his match with Hogan a ***** masterpiece. Yeah.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Streak said:


> Cut the crap about people thinking Angle is good cos of his background blah blah blah, he's one of the best fucking wrestlers of all time in the ring. He could carry you to a good match.


Angle carry me to a good match? As if I'd let him do the carrying and embarrass me out there


8*D

Angle is really athletic and intense in the ring and a lot of people go mad for that style. I understand it completely.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

The Streak said:


> Cut the crap about people thinking Angle is good cos of his background blah blah blah, he's one of the best fucking wrestlers of all time in the ring. He could carry you to a good match.


ahahahahahahaha
nah, not really


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The main reason I enjoy watching Angle's matches is because I know his cardio is 2nd to none, the guy's just never gonna get tired. He goes and goes and goes, hense why he takes way too many dangerous risks without slowing down and setting them up. But he's not GOAT level, I don't remember Angle having any impressive/noteworthy workover segments or any moments where he sold something exceptionally. Not very good at working a crowd either. Don't hate the guy though.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Hm...this seems not to be the best thread for a giant Angle mark like myself.

I will say, however, that a lot of matches people love on here (every Undertaker match from the last 4 Manias) were all finisher fests, and I don't see THAT much criticism. I might be a bit biased because I'll defend Angle until death, but still.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

The Austin match in 01 is probably the best example of Angle selling and that's like 85% the Steve Austin show.

Probably his best workover is against Shane McMahon and dude, that's Shane McMahon. Still a good match, and one of the better Angle performances, because it plays to his strengths and virtually ignores his weaknesses.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I will agree that Angle would have the tendency to no-sell some of his opponent's offense (especially after 2001), but I've always loved his work.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Meh, I could rattle a few ****1/2 + Angle matches off the top of my head right now, so I guess he couldn't have been too bad. I'd definitely put him up there when it comes to the best of his generation/era, but I wouldn't necessarily call him one of the GOATs, nor would I even associate him with the GOATs. He's a special talent and really entertaining, but I could name plenty of more entertaining guys out there.

I can see why people like and love Angle, and I can see why people dislike Angle, also. I'm not too fussed about him either way - He serves a purpose, he puts on a fun match here and there and he gets the job done. I can't really ask much more from someone at the age of 44, tbh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I generally prefer Angle in triple threat and tag team matches. Much of his one vs one stuff I just can't get into. He has had some great stuff though. But I disagree that he's one of the best wrestlers WWE has had.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle is awesome. I don't care if he abuses his cool moves, I'm all about the SPOTZ!!!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm a spots guy when it comes to ladder matches and hardcore matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There's a lot of wrestlers that people say are good based off of rep and stuff. Tiger Mask and the Dynamite Kid weren't any good, but their matches are called classics. They aren't. But my least favourite is when people call a wrestler great just purely because he has a technical gimmick or whatever. Lance Storm's an example. Seriously, what's good about Lance Storm? What does he do well? Where are his good matches? Where has he carried an opponent? There is absolutely nothing from Lance Storm that shows me he's a better worker than Batista or JBL. This isn't direct talking about Angle, but I don't hate Angle enough to shit on him any chance I can get. 



Choke2Death said:


> Angle is awesome. I don't care if he abuses his cool moves, I'm all about the SPOTZ!!!


at least this guy admits it. Telling me Angle has great psychology.....he doesn't. Telling me you like watching his high-octane no-selling sprint mode.....well I'm not going to crap on you for that. You like what you like. 

EDIT- Personally I thought the Shane McMahon match was fucking dreadful and I vow to never watch it again. Probably my least favourite Angle match which is saying something.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Angle is awesome. I don't care if he abuses his cool moves, I'm all about the SPOTZ!!!


QFT. :kurt


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Im intrigued into what you guys think of the WHC title scene from Survivor Series 06 to Wrestlemania 23. Batista didnt defend the title at either Armageddon or No Way Out (which were both SmackDown only PPV's), and it was obvious he wasnt going to lose the title to Kennedy at the Rumble. I remember being really annoyed at the time that it seemed like they knew they were doing Taker/Batista since Survivor Series, but didnt really give us any suspense it could of been anything else and didnt bother giving us any other title matches. A top tier title should always main event its Brand-only PPV and I couldnt believe it when they werent giving us a title match 2 SmackDown PPV's in a row.

Ratings.
Batista/King Booker (Survivor Series) - **1/2
Batista & Cena/King Booker & Finlay (Armageddon)- **1/2
Batista/Kennedy (Royal Rumble) - **1/2
Batista & Taker/HBK & Cena (No Way Out) - ****1/4
Batista/Taker (Wrestlemania) - ****


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT- Personally I thought the Shane McMahon match was fucking dreadful and I vow to never watch it again. Probably my least favourite Angle match which is saying something.


Why? I ask partly because I dig that match a lot (it'll probably be on my list) and partly because I don't see any way any match can be worse than the Jeff Hardy match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Batista/King Booker (Survivor Series) - *
Batista & Cena/King Booker & Finlay (Armageddon)- **
Batista/Kennedy (Royal Rumble) - **
Batista & Taker/HBK & Cena (No Way Out) - ****
Batista/Taker (Wrestlemania) - ****1/2

It wasn't the greatest reign at all but i do remember a non title match between Batista/Finlay being much better than anything bar NWO/WM matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

jawbreaker said:


> Why? I ask partly because I dig that match a lot (it'll probably be on my list) and partly because I don't see any way any match can be worse than the Jeff Hardy match.



Felt silly. Really silly. I get that Angle had wrestling two matches already, but they weren't exactly damaging (or good 8*D), and yet Angle still sold for McMahon they way he did for Chris Benoit in their series. He just got through an intense Chris Benoit feud which had a ladder fall and 30 minute submission match and a cage match, and he goes ahead and makes Shane McMahon look like a bigger challenge than he's ever faced. This match was brought up on another board, and a guy made a great post about it, and mentioned that Angle should have sold for Shane the way the Road Warriors sold for JJ Dillon- shrugging off his blows, and laughing. This isn;t a commentary on Angle no-selling or anything like that. It felt, IDK, embarrassing to watch that Shane McMahon who's an untrained athlete was pretty much treated like Angle's equal. I remember Angle trying to actually do some competitive mat game at the beginning....why? And my least favourite part was Angle has no fucking clue how to brawl as a heel. No fucking clue. He didn't even seem to try to make it look like he was the guy the crowd should be booing, and when the crowd were chanting "one more time!" with the ridiculous glass suplexes...yuck. The ending angle slam off the table got a face pop as well. It comes off as a really bad stunt show instead of a wrestling match. Honestly this, to me, is exactly the kind of match people say ECW was notorious for. I have no idea how anybody can shit on ECW and call this a great match. And I'm no ECW apologist because in ECW there sure as shit were matches which looked like what people call "retards doing stuff." 

Never saw Angle/Hardy. I don't think. It's on my watch list though. Been NEEDING to see it after Seabs wrote like my favourite review of any match ever on it back in 2010.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

yeah 1993 was the 2/3 falls dog collar match like a 3 act play


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Felt silly. Really silly. I get that Angle had wrestling two matches already, but they weren't exactly damaging (or good 8*D), and yet Angle still sold for McMahon they way he did for Chris Benoit in their series. He just got through an intense Chris Benoit feud which had a ladder fall and 30 minute submission match and a cage match, and he goes ahead and makes Shane McMahon look like a bigger challenge than he's ever faced. This match was brought up on another board, and a guy made a great post about it, and mentioned that Angle should have sold for Shane the way the Road Warriors sold for JJ Dillon- shrugging off his blows, and laughing. This isn;t a commentary on Angle no-selling or anything like that. It felt, IDK, embarrassing to watch that Shane McMahon who's an untrained athlete was pretty much treated like Angle's equal. I remember Angle trying to actually do some competitive mat game at the beginning....why? And my least favourite part was Angle has no fucking clue how to brawl as a heel. No fucking clue. He didn't even seem to try to make it look like he was the guy the crowd should be booing, and when the crowd were chanting "one more time!" with the ridiculous glass suplexes...yuck. The ending angle slam off the table got a face pop as well. It comes off as a really bad stunt show instead of a wrestling match. Honestly this, to me, is exactly the kind of match people say ECW was notorious for. I have no idea how anybody can shit on ECW and call this a great match. And I'm no ECW apologist because in ECW there sure as shit were matches which looked like what people call "retards doing stuff."
> 
> Never saw Angle/Hardy. I don't think. It's on my watch list though. Been NEEDING to see it after Seabs wrote like my favourite review of any match ever on it back in 2010.


I didn't think they made Shane look like Angle's equal at all. His offense basically consisted of hitting Angle with heavy things, which is pretty effective offense no matter who's using it, or who's on the other end. The mat wrestling portion served to illustrate how ridiculous a matchup it was, because Angle could basically just fuck Shane up if he tried to actually wrestle, which was why he went and got chairs and stuff.

Then Shane's offense basically stops halfway through and Angle wins because he's the better athlete with better conditioning, etc., but I thought they gave Shane enough offense to make you think he could possibly win without making Angle look weak. Like, I mean, there's plenty of stunts in it, and a lot of them are silly, but it's not like they pretended there was some other way for Shane to win.

The Angle/Hardy match is absolutely horrendous. It's sublimely terrible. One of the most hilariously bad matches I've ever seen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WCW said:


> yeah 1993 was the 2/3 falls dog collar match like a 3 act play


I've never really liked it that much.



jawbreaker said:


> I didn't think they made Shane look like Angle's equal at all. His offense basically consisted of hitting Angle with heavy things, which is pretty effective offense no matter who's using it, or who's on the other end. The mat wrestling portion served to illustrate how ridiculous a matchup it was, because Angle could basically just fuck Shane up if he tried to actually wrestle, which was why he went and got chairs and stuff.


before they even get the hardcore stuff Shane is arm-dragging Angle and actually winds up on top of him in a mat session. Hell, Angle is the one who has to resort to clubbing Shane in the back because he isn't doing to well. Shane got the hardcore stuff after he dove over the announce table, so he basically had control of the match already (which he should have b/c he isn't a wrestler).



jawbreaker said:


> Then Shane's offense basically stops halfway through and Angle wins because he's the better athlete with better conditioning, etc., but I thought they gave Shane enough offense to make you think he could possibly win without making Angle look weak. Like, I mean, there's plenty of stunts in it, and a lot of them are silly, but it's not like they pretended there was some other way for Shane to win..


It was a pretty bad stunt show by the end, even though they were legitimately fucking each other up. The glass suplexes were the stupidest thing in history and actually got more of a "holy shit/this is awesome" reaction than actual concern for Shane McMahon, the untrained, not-a-wrestler babyface. Angle's the heel, and a legit Gold medal winner who had victories over Chris Benoit, the Rock, the Undertaker and was someone who had held the WWF Chmapionhsip. Angle was the one doing all of this stupid shit and I just can't fathom why he'd need to do this in order to beat this silver spoon skinny rich kid. I just can't take any of it seriously.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Heard they're thinking about making HHH and Brock dress like Batman and Bane for their Summerslam fight.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh fuck :lmao

Please let that happen.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Felt silly. Really silly. I get that Angle had wrestling two matches already, but they weren't exactly damaging (or good 8*D), and yet Angle still sold for McMahon they way he did for Chris Benoit in their series. He just got through an intense Chris Benoit feud which had a ladder fall and 30 minute submission match and a cage match, and he goes ahead and makes Shane McMahon look like a bigger challenge than he's ever faced. This match was brought up on another board, and a guy made a great post about it, and mentioned that Angle should have sold for Shane the way the Road Warriors sold for JJ Dillon- shrugging off his blows, and laughing. This isn;t a commentary on Angle no-selling or anything like that. It felt, IDK, embarrassing to watch that Shane McMahon who's an untrained athlete was pretty much treated like Angle's equal. I remember Angle trying to actually do some competitive mat game at the beginning....why? And my least favourite part was Angle has no fucking clue how to brawl as a heel. No fucking clue. He didn't even seem to try to make it look like he was the guy the crowd should be booing, and when the crowd were chanting "one more time!" with the ridiculous glass suplexes...yuck. The ending angle slam off the table got a face pop as well. It comes off as a really bad stunt show instead of a wrestling match. Honestly this, to me, is exactly the kind of match people say ECW was notorious for. I have no idea how anybody can shit on ECW and call this a great match. And I'm no ECW apologist because in ECW there sure as shit were matches which looked like what people call "retards doing stuff."
> 
> Never saw Angle/Hardy. I don't think. It's on my watch list though. Been NEEDING to see it after Seabs wrote like my favourite review of any match ever on it back in 2010.


Fuckin hell! I must've watched a different Angle/Shane match! Only things I remember is Shane getting killed.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Ownage™ said:


> Heard they're thinking about making HHH and Brock dress like Batman and Bane for their Summerslam fight.


If this is true, it's the best idea EVER.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*WWF Rebellion 2001

WWF Intercontinental Championship - Steel Cage Match
Edge vs Christian
***

Scotty 2 Hotty vs Hurricane Helms
**

Big Show vs DDP 
*

WWF Tag Team Championship - Triangle Match
The Dudley Boys vs The APA vs The Hardy Boyz
*1/2

William Regal vs Taijiri
**3/4

WCW Championship
Chris Jericho vs Kurt Angle
**3/4

Lita & Torrie Wilson vs Mighty Molly & Stacy Keibler 
1/2*

WWF Championship
Steve Austin vs The Rock
***1/4
*

- Aside from the flawlessly setting up of the 3D, there's really nothing worth seeing in the Triangle match.

- Regal/Taijiri was a nicely structured match between two underrated talents. Best worked match on the card.

- Y2J/Angle was solid yet unspectacular. I was expecting much more out of 2001 Angle and Jericho.

- As long as you aren't going in expecting a match on the level of their other classic matches, Rock/Austin is an awesome little brawl with a fun overbooked ending that you have come to expect out of these Attitude Era main event matches, for better or for worst.

*Overall:* Best to avoid this one. Plenty of better PPVs from this time period out there.​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If Lesnar and HHH dress up and Bane and Batman, I hope Lesnar breaks HHH's back 8*D

Edit: And Stephanie should totally dress up as Catwomen.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Judgement Day 2000*

*Too Cool/ Angle, Edge and Christian* ***1/2
*Guerrero/Malenko/Saturn * ***
*Shane McMahon/ Big Show* **3/4
*Benoit/Jericho* ***3/4
*DX/Dudleys* **2/3
*HHH/Rock * ****1/2

Probably my favorite show of 2000 so far , HHH having a killer year PPV wise. And no Big Boss Man match  .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Does the Undertaker Streak DVD show any buildup/promos/entrances before any of the matches?

I'm unsure wether to buy it when it comes out, im a big Taker mark since he debuted and its nice having all his Mania matches in one set but I dunno, plus isn't the 'doc' only 30mins.

The other two Taker DVDs are two of the best you can get but I may wait for a price drop tbh.


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

*WWF SummerSlam (1998)
*

*WWF European Championship*
D'Lo Brown(c) vs. Val Venis
*

The Oddities (Kurrgan, Golga and Giant Silva)vs. Kaientai (Taka Michinoku, Dick Togo, Mens Teioh and Sho Funaki)
*

*Hair vs. Hair*
Jeff Jarrett vs. X Pac
**

Marc Mero and Jacqueline vs. Edge and Sable
**

*Lions Den*
Ken Shamrock vs. Owen Hart
**1/2

*No Disqualification Handicap for the WWF Tag Team Championship*
Mankind(c) (Kane was supposed to of been his Tag Team Partner) vs. The Road Dogg and Billy Gunn
***

*Ladder MAtch for the WWF InterContinental Championship*
The Rock(c) vs. Triple H
****

*WWF Championship*
The Undertaker vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(c)
****​


Just watched this PPV so I thought I would put it on here.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Wow, saying the D'Lo vs Venis match is the same quality as the six man tag is a huge knock on those two guys. Oddities v Kaientai is a DUD to end all DUDs, and quite possibly the worst match I have ever seen. Honestly, it's nauseating.

I'm not a fan of the Lion's Den concept. It's a smart move trying to capitalise on MMA style fighting which was illegal at the time and so had that 'forbidden' appeal to it, but it not being in a rope meant that it was however many minutes of grappling that ended up pretty boring.

I liked the HHH/Rock ladder match but I remember one spot that Rock did that was super unrealistic and took me out of it.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

I never in my life would've thought I'd hear people talking about Kurt Angle sucking as a wrestler... I'm just like... what? lol

2001, Angle was having some of the best matches of the year. Some classics with Benoit, Austin, Rock, and Shane McMahon

2002 was Angle's best overall year period. After Backlash 2002 and the Brand Split, Angle was having amazing match after amazing match.... on Smackdown, his matches are fucking classics during this year with the whole Angle, Edge, Rey, Guerreros, Benoit feuds. 

2003 was a weird year, but still a great one... his RR match with Benoit was one of my all time favs, he had a great(but limited) match with Lesnar at WM 19, came back from a career-threatening injury, won the title in a great Triple Threat match, beat Lesnar in an amazing match, had a pretty good feud with Cena, and that amazing Ironman match with Lesnar

2004 was a weird year.. as I dont remember many Angle matches that year outside of his matches with Eddie that year.

2005 was the year he had the epic feud with Shawn Michaels. all their matches were great.

2006 was a great year(another weird one too though) just for the NWO match with Undertaker. one of my all time favorites

I havent seen a LOT of Angle in TNA, but from 2000-2006 Angle was the most consistent performer in WWE


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

nobody is saying Angle _has always sucked_, we're saying _he sucks_. don't think you'll find too many people who will deny that he was great for the first couple years of his career.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

I dont think Angle sucks at all. I've seen a few matches of his in TNA, and granted he's pretty banged up from all his injuries, but he's still had some great matches considering the fact he shouldnt even be wrestling anymore lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Only two more HHH PPV matches to go..... FUCK YEAH/NO (depending on how you look at it  ). Can't wait to post the rest of the reviews and then work on my final writeup. Going to finally watch the giant stack of new DVDs I've amassed since I started this project tomorrow.

Who should I do next ? CM Punk ? Randy Orton ? D-Bryan ? I'd prefer a newer superstar. Suggestions ?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think Angle was ever great. He was good in 00-02, though. After that I only really like his stuff against certain people. A lot my favourite stuff of his are matches nobody talks about. Angle v Marty Jannetty is seriously really good.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Only two more HHH PPV matches to go..... FUCK YEAH/NO (depending on how you look at it  ). Can't wait to post the rest of the reviews and then work on my final writeup. Going to finally watch the giant stack of new DVDs I've amassed since I started this project tomorrow.
> 
> Who should I do next ? CM Punk ? Randy Orton ? D-Bryan ? I'd prefer a newer superstar. Suggestions ?


Been really enjoying your hhh ppv reviews.

Who I think you should do next? 
I'm gonna say either Mysterio or Orton.

Im thinking of starting a Punk review soon myself, since D Bryan hasn't had many ppv matches yet.

Keep up the good work


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Really liked Angle in 00 and 01, then after that, like Yeah, I only like him against certain guys.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Angle was perfectly acceptable in 2000-2001, largely because he was the rookie and thus it was up to the vets to call and build the matches around Angle's signature offence. The longer Angle stayed in the company the more he grew into that Veteran role and therefore by the time he was working a lot of his opponents he was the guy building the vast majority of the match which is where a lot of his problems have forever existed. He's not a student of the game and doesn't have that inside knowledge that the likes of Finlay, Funk, Flair, Regal etc have with regards to working a crowd and a character and getting the most out of very little. 

The problem with a lot of his matches now is they're entirely dependant on the moves, things like the perfunctory matwork at the beginning of an Angle match feel empty and just an excuse to trade holds, rather than developing either character and building to the next sequence, as evidenced by Angle more often than not working co-operatively with wrestlers when he's billed as a wrestling machine. I think I saw someone on DVDVR talk about how during a Storm/Angle match Tenay and Taz talked up how Storm would have to utilise his brawling to combat Angle's amateur pedigre....but Storm then went on to gain the advantage in the wrestling section of the match and Angle resorted to the brawling. It just seemed ass backwards as to what should have been going on in the match, and they didn't even work to build the 'Angle is getting out wrestled' portion of the match, it was over before it even began and they then went into more of a brawling/trading signature offence spell. His matches just feel devoid of structure and simplicity like you see with people who understand the business, cool little stories that can build in a match, e.g heel being humiliated and working to try and gain an advantage never appear in Angle matches, because he feels its beneath him or he just doesn't care. Either way his style is long past the point where I care to watch a match of his unless someone with who I'm generally on point with pimps it as must see, I will say though Jarrett is by far the best opponent he can have in TNA.

Anyways, onto a guy I actually think is worth a damn:

*Drew Mcintyre v Sin Cara, WWE Superstars 07/26/12*

Total Drew formula match here, and the best Cara match to date as a result. Cara is slowly becoming one of the most awful guys inside a WWE ring I can remember, he just looks so slow and clunky in every movement he makes and his bumping and theatrics just look terribly out of place, like what Rey Mysterio would be if he wasn't a very smart wrestler who knew how to make the most out of his offence and build a match around his comeback. Cara actually does a half decent job at selling the workover, even if it doesn't really play into any spots bar Drew's awesome powerbomb counter to a hurricanrana. Like nearly every Drew match he busts out some incredibly creative offence, especially the hammerlock back suplex which looked really awesome. His shoulderbreaker onto the ring apron spot was also a killer transition spot that you come to associate with Mcintyre matches, and he bumps and eats all of Cara's offence tremendously and manages to ensure there are no awkward looking sequences. Finish wasn't too brilliant, more the standard face catches heel off guard spot that when executed well is a terrific finish, but if not executed all that smartly can leave you rather disappointed. Anyways its a fine match and definitely the sort of match you'd show to someone you were trying to convince Mcintyre was worth watching.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SC, watch the two Drew/Rollins matches from NXT from the last 2 weeks .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'll hopefully give them a watch before watching a couple of films. How is Rollins in them? Saw a few matches last year when Seabs pimped them hard and he impressed me with his selling, but then I saw a couple of more recent matches and his offence resembled that of John Morrison and I had a hard time thinking more of him. If he sticks to selling and building his comeback I imagine I won't have a problem with him.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ownage™ said:


> Heard they're thinking about making HHH and Brock dress like Batman and Bane for their Summerslam fight.


I'd mark. In fact, you have now ruined this match for me if this doesn't happen lol. Would be awesome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Drew Mcintyre v Seth Rollins, WWE NXT 07/25/12*

Nothing match really, just a Rollins showcase for the most part before Drew catches him and makes short work of him. Rollins had some ok offence, but I'll take this as basically a lead in to their second match where hopefully they get much more time and work off of the first bout. I did like Rollins' KO sell of a Mcintyre punch however.


*Drew Mcintyre v Seth Rollins, WWE NXT, 08/01/12*

Better match, Rollins' offence for the most part didn't wow me, whoever decided he should employ a kick based game in his matches needs to actually watch his kicks before suggesting that again. Mcintyre was his usual self, I dug the aggressive opening trying to ground Rollins and of course the hiding under the ring spot was your typical creativity on Mcintyre's part. Arm work was basic compared to some of Drew's past encounters but Rollins did fine selling it, a couple of really smart counters from both men with Rollins' DDT out of a mid air throw and Drew's AWESOME tilt-a-whirl backbreaker. Finish was innovative although a tad flat, felt more like a big nearfall rather than the actual finish. Perfectly acceptable match but I do hope Rollins alters his strike style before making the move up to Raw/SD because like Punk he doesn't really have the kicking ability to work this sort of gimmick, but Punk can more than make up for it due to his invaluable wrestling brain and ability to get the most out of very little.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Segunda Caida said:


> Anyways, onto a guy I actually think is worth a damn:
> 
> *Drew Mcintyre v Sin Cara, WWE Superstars 07/26/12*
> 
> Total Drew formula match here, and the best Cara match to date as a result. Cara is slowly becoming one of the most awful guys inside a WWE ring I can remember, he just looks so slow and clunky in every movement he makes and his bumping and theatrics just look terribly out of place, like what Rey Mysterio would be if he wasn't a very smart wrestler who knew how to make the most out of his offence and build a match around his comeback. Cara actually does a half decent job at selling the workover, even if it doesn't really play into any spots bar Drew's awesome powerbomb counter to a hurricanrana. Like nearly every Drew match he busts out some incredibly creative offence, especially the hammerlock back suplex which looked really awesome. His shoulderbreaker onto the ring apron spot was also a killer transition spot that you come to associate with Mcintyre matches, and he bumps and eats all of Cara's offence tremendously and manages to ensure there are no awkward looking sequences. Finish wasn't too brilliant, more the standard face catches heel off guard spot that when executed well is a terrific finish, but if executed all that smartly can leave you rather disappointed. Anyways its a fine match and definitely the sort of match you'd show to someone you were trying to convince Mcintyre was worth watching.


McIntyre Vs Sin Cara - 26/07/2012

Dammit WWE, McIntyre is awesome and yet you just do nothing with him. He seems to be a main stay on NXT right now. NX-fucking-T. The place for the FCW guys to go after FCW and before Raw/SD. Its like ECW, except not on TV in America so most people don't see it. Anyway, reason for that mini-rant is that McIntyre just looks awesome here. Give it up for Cara too, he bumps well from Drew's offence making it look even better. Him bouncing off McIntyre's knee and landing on the floor looked great. Loved Drew at the start of the match just picking up Cara and throwing him down to the mat rather than dropping down with him, then looking at what he did and smiling because he's an evil Scottish cunt. Love how Drew is able to wrestle a power game in his matches too, despite not really being "big" in the sense a guy like Sheamus is. Sure, he's tall, but he's also kinda lanky so it looks all the more impressive when he catches someone in mid-air and smashes them down with a shoulder breaker or a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker. Everything he does looks great, vicious, and has a purpose. Guy literally has it all when it comes to in ring technique and skill. He's tall and doesn't look like a generic big guy. He CAN talk too, just doesn't get a chance. Does plenty of those "little things" that can make a match/his character too. Guy pretty much has it all, yet isn't given a chance. Rumours of him not re-signing when his contract is up unless his standing with the company gets better saddens me, but you can hardly blame him. People like Del Rio and Santino are on the main shows pretty much every week, one has a title atm and the other keeps challenging for the World/WWE title, despite the fact Drew is far more talented than both of them. Fuck the WWE. Match is pretty good btw .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Only two more HHH PPV matches to go..... FUCK YEAH/NO (depending on how you look at it  ). Can't wait to post the rest of the reviews and then work on my final writeup. Going to finally watch the giant stack of new DVDs I've amassed since I started this project tomorrow.
> 
> Who should I do next ? CM Punk ? Randy Orton ? D-Bryan ? I'd prefer a newer superstar. Suggestions ?


Dolph "Spirit Squad Member/Perfection/Show off" Ziggler.

And since I'm the only one that reads your reviews, my vote should be worth 99% of the total vote.


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

I got the WrestleMania Anthology Box Set, and WrestleMania's 14 - 18 are ruined with the WWF blurs, apart from 15 and 17, which WrestleMania's are worth purchasing without the blurs? By the way, 15 and 17 I already purchased without the blurs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A fellow member mentioned a DVD 'bootleg' - Undertaker vs Kane fued (2 discs), does anyone have a copy at all, plz pm if can help.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cody Rhodes vs Justin Gabriel - Superstars 8/2

Really solid match from both of these guys. Gabriel has changed his game up a bit since his return and Cody is such a fucking awesome heel. Liked the fast paced ending of the match as well. - ***1/4


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I caught the Cara/McIntyre that *Segunda* was raving on about. I thought it was solid stuff for the most part but nothing stuck out to as anything above 'good'. As always, I dug McIntyre tearing apart Cara's arm and the selling that followed. McIntyre carried Cara to something decent, but it doesn't top Daniel Bryan's match with Sin Cara on Smackdown last year shortly after Cara debutted. Not a bad way to kill 8 minutes though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I never really dug that Bryan/Cara match, maybe it was because of the lack of time they got, or that it was face/face but it felt very disjointed and just a rushed sprint. Plus if memory serves correctly I recall some awkward looking sequences in terms of Cara looking nervous and Bryan seeming noticeably determined to lead him through a match with no problems/botches and that seemingly taking away from what Bryan could do.

'Cara's best match' was also pretty much a nothing remark, given the sparse matches he's had I label anywhere close to good. As I said dude is one of the most awful guys I can remember seeing in quite some time, his offence is just terribly tame as well as overly choreographed, he doesn't have Rey's intelligence in building his high flying offence and just appears to run through every hurricanrana/armdrag move he can pull off and he just looks awfully clunky and slow in the ring, whether that's due to him appearing nervous in wanting to not botch but something is definitely not clicking with his opponents.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked the Sin Cara/Christian match from Smackdown in July '11.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Top 5 Matches of Sheamus in your opinion?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'll do just 1-on-1 matches:

Sheamus vs.

Daniel Bryan (2/3 Falls) - Extreme Rules 2012
John Morrison (Ladder Match) - TLC 2010 
Randy Orton (No DQ) - Smackdown 06/10/2011
John Morrison (Falls Count Anywhere) - Raw 09/13/2010
Triple H - WrestleMania XXVI


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> I'll do just 1-on-1 matches:
> 
> Sheamus vs.
> 
> ...


My list would be the same except I'd throw Dolph/Sheamus from No Way Out in there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 Sheamus matches:

1) vs. Morrison TLC10 ****1/4
2) vs. Bryan ER12- ****
3) vs. Bryan Raw 7/30/12- ***3/4
4) vs. Orton No DQ SD 11- ***1/2
5) vs. Ziggler NWO12- ***1/2


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm biased towards the Trips match at Mania since I saw it live and that was the first time I really noticed Sheamus' talent. Real step up moment.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ah come on guys, where's the love for the Hell in a Cell vs. Orton? I fuckin love that match, good **** from me.


----------



## LariatSavage (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm digging all the Top 5 Sheamus lists... I'm not sure what mine would be, but I definitely think his match with Tensai was as good as anything he's done free-TV.

Smackdown 8/3 Review


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

On the Bret Hart DVD, is the Owen Hart tribute match in full?


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Yes its shown in full but whatever action that's going on during commercial breaks you don't see


----------



## Manelpirolito (Nov 5, 2006)

Just watch Survivor Series 2002 last Night my favourite non wrestlemania PPV of all time


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Game1778 said:


> Yes its shown in full but whatever action that's going on during commercial breaks you don't see


So its not 'complete' then lol, think the full match is on Youtube including the ad break action...


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Chris Benoit vs. Edge- Last Man Standing Match
WWE Backlash 2005 *

-This was a really good match between these two. A very good hardcore style match with lots of back and forth and got a lot time (about 20 minutes). Some good brawling to take up the first 1/3rd, they did some nice spots like the superplex through the trashcan, the suicide dive spot, the top of the ladder German Suplex and the Edgecution onto the briefcase. Finish comes when Edge grabs a brick out of his briefcase and hits Benoit with it for the 10 count. Edge tapping to Benoit's signature submissions during the match made Benoit come off strong in defeat and Benoit's selling was superb. Good Match.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

LariatSavage said:


> I'm digging all the Top 5 Sheamus lists... I'm not sure what mine would be, but I definitely think his match with Tensai was as good as anything he's done free-TV.
> 
> Smackdown 8/3 Review


I echo the love for the recent Tensai/Sheamus match. Really hard-hitting stuff that relies on the 'less is more' style of pro-wrestling that I really enjoy. Sheamus is really starting to prove himself as a good worker, but he still needs to work on his stamina.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Very interesting list, I'm going to say a few tidbits that I noticed whilst reading it :

- You seem to be very high on Summerslam 09 , having it have as many top 25 matches as Summerslam 2002 (arguably one of the best PPVs ever). You could say that if it wasn't for the shitty WWE championship match, this PPV could have went from fantastic to legendary status that only a few shows receive.

- According to your list (in my opinion also) , Bret Hart is Mr. Summerslam, but I feel the need to point out a few others from your list. Of course some superstars are expected to put on great performances (HHH, HBK, Angle) , but I feel the need to give credit to Randy Orton, who appears on your list 3 times. He made his PPV debut at Summerslam, and has wrestled 8 matches on the event, with only ONE of them (that DAMN WWE Championship match) being non-noteworthy. He has wrestled Hulk fucking Hogan at Summerslam for fuck sakes. He has wrestled some big time matches over the years at this event, and I'm glad that you gave Mr. Orton his due, as he has been Mr. Summerslam as of late.

Lastly, to play Devil's advocate (or, just to be a prick  ) I'll list 3 selections that I felt were underrated by you, and 3 that I felt were overrated by you (even though I love your list, just saying  ) .

3 Underrated :

1. Shawn-Hunter
2. Punk-Cena
3. Taker-Bret

3 Overrated :

1. TLC I
2. SS 03 FFW (One of the only TWO matches I believe didn't belong on the list)
3. SS 00 triple threat (the second match I believe didn't belong)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd also have Benoit/RVD (SS 02) and Cena/Jericho (SS 05) up there.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I want to see wwe.com make one. They'd probably have Undertaker vs. Undertaker on there lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love that Legacy/DX match from Summerslam.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This week's WW:

Best PPV Matches of 2011 bluray/dvd (9.99/8.99)

I'm unsure, I do really like the 09-10 edition, but there is only a handful of matches im that interested in tbh and two are from mitb and one from mania..


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll be picking it up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Quite a few matches on there I'm interested in, and Punk/Cena MITB in HD is a massive plus. Shame I have no money whatsoever to buy it :lmao.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Sweet, almost makes up for last weeks disappointment. Will be getting this. Cena/Punk MITB on Blu Ray finally


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll just have to make do with a Bluray copy of the MITB PPV for Cena/Punk until that set goes on sale again and I have money .


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

It's annoying that MITB never came to Blu Ray. One of the best PPVs not in HD is slightly annoying.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was never released on Bluray, so you can only get a copy of a HD recording of the live showing. Platt sells it, I bought it from him .


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Vyed said:


> Top 5 Matches of Sheamus in your opinion?


1) Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules 2012, 2/3 Falls Match) ****1/4

2) Sheamus vs. John Morrison (TLC 2011, Ladder Match) ****

3) Sheamus vs. Triple H (Extreme Rules 2010, Street Fight) ***1/2

4) Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (RAW 2012, No Holds Barred Match) ***1/2

5) Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler (SD 2012, the first one) ***1/2


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

KingCal said:


> It was never released on Bluray, so you can only get a copy of a HD recording of the live showing. Platt sells it, I bought it from him .


Ah interesting, may have to enquire. Thanks.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Wrestlemania 21

MITB ****1/2
Angle/HBK ****1/2

Watched these today and both matches were as brilliant as I remembered.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

MITB I: ****1/4 (2nd best MITB)
Angle/Michaels: Wasn't as impressed as you with this the last time i saw it, iirc around ****

Elimination Chamber Matches
SS 02: ****1/2
SS 03: ***1/2
NYR 05: ****1/2
NYR 06: ***1/2
D2D: ***1/4
NWO 08 (Raw): ****1/2
NWO 08 (SD): ***
NWO 09 (Raw): ****
NWO 09 (SD): ***1/2
EC 10 (Raw): ***
EC 10 (SD): ***3/4


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I can see why people would be lower on HBK/Angle, a few of things about the match like the ending im not sure I liked but it was just awesome seeing both men facing each other in the same ring for the first time.

I have the NYR 05 chamber match at , ****3/4. I think its incredible, would of given it 5 stars but i felt certain spots were repeated too much and it annoyed me when they couldnt get Batista out of his pod when it was his time to join the action.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Pre-ordered.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Recieved my copy of WM24, only £10 off eBay, sealed new tin edition, I did post an eBay link a few pages back as there may be some copies left, only thing I remember from the event is the Show/Floyd and Edge/Taker...


----------



## arthur214 (Jul 6, 2011)

Is there somewhere on this forum to sell wrestling DVDs? I have a stack of ROH stuff to list but I can't seem to find a spot.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker -No Way Out 2006 ****3/4*

What a fucking match.Easily match of the year for 2006.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Easily WWE MOTY for 06 . Overall... Bryan Vs Nigel from Unified takes that title .

Have you seen the SD re-match recently? Almost as good as the PPV match, just needed more time.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I just can't believe that McMahon/HBK won MOTY over Taker/Angle lol.
Yeah Taker vs Angle from SD 2006 is also a fantastic match..ruined by Mark Henry at the end but it's a great match nonetheless.****1/2 for me.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Easily WWE MOTY for 06 . Overall... KENTA vs. Marufuji from NOAH takes that tit
> 
> Have you seen the SD re-match recently? Almost as good as the PPV match, just needed more time.


Fixed that for you. 2006 was a great year though. I need a link to those two matches if anyone got it. I have only seen those two matches once.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haven't seen that match, would have to be extraordinarily awesome to beat the ***** match between Bryan and Nigel for me .


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

No Way Out 2006 is a really good PPV actually. Like most SD ones from 2006.

Angle/Taker ****1/4
Mysterio/Orton ***3/4


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

The Punk DVD looks like the first WWE release worth buying since ECW ONS 1.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I sooo love SD 06. Storylines kinda sucked and the main event scene was shitty (King Booker? Urgh), but good god some of the matches we got on a weekly basis and then PPV were :mark:.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*No Way Out 2006*

Benoit/Booker - ***3/4 Entertaining match, maybe went a few minutes too long.
Mysterio/Orton - ****1/4 Should have been the World Heavyweight Championship match at Wrestlemania
Angle/Taker - ****3/4 WWE MOTY


----------



## BornBad (Jan 27, 2004)

Will buy the Dvd and The Blu-ray


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

What do you guys think of the Flair/Foley I Quit match? I never ever see it mentioned. I thought it was a great match with Foley and Flair both putting in brilliant performances.

****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love it, I'd throw **** at it as well. Their LMS match in TNA was pretty good too, except for the terrible finish .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Flair/Foley had an LMS in TNA? :shocked:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf4mc5_tna-impact-7-10-10-last-man-standin_sport why yes they do .


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

How good is No Way Out 2006? A lot of people say its good, some say is rubbish and others say, only watch the Main Event. I'm thinking of purchasing it for $7.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> *No Way Out 2006*
> 
> Mysterio/Orton - ****1/4 Should have been the World Heavyweight Championship match at Wrestlemania


THANK YOU. This and their rematch for the WHC in early April on Smackdown are proof that their chemistry was more than sufficient to host a World Title match at Wrestlemania, and when you factor in the Rey storyline and Orton being at his best in 04-06 as the cocky, disrespectful young heel their feud could have been great beyond the ring work. Not to mention this would have meant Angle and Taker could have had their NWO clinic on the biggest stage of them all, instead of the shite we got when the two were mixed with Henry/Taker and the triple threat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Juelz Ventura™ said:


> How good is No Way Out 2006? A lot of people say its good, some say is rubbish and others say, only watch the Main Event. I'm thinking of purchasing it for $7.


Gregory Helms Vs Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Psicosis Vs Brian Kendrick Vs Paul London Vs Funaki Vs Kid Kash Vs Super Crazy Vs Nunzio - Cruiserweight Title - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ***1/4

Bobby Lashley Vs JBL - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - **1/2 (good for what it was)

Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - WrestleMania #1 Contender Spot - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****1/4

The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****3/4

Great PPV imo. Don't have ratings for the other matches, when I reviewed all of SD 06 I just watched the matches that interested me.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Taker vs. Angle from NWO '06 is must see, easily top 5 match of 2006. Mysterio/Orton was a great match as well, there was really nothing horrible on the card. A solid undercard topped with an epic main event. No Way Out was a much needed rebound from the lackluster Royal Rumble a month prior.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd jump at any opportunity to get NWO 06 for $7. Solid undercard, with two great main events and a good US title match. Smackdown 06 was on fire, tbh. Definitely one of the better years for either brand since the brand split


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Juelz Ventura™ said:


> How good is No Way Out 2006? A lot of people say its good, some say is rubbish and others say, only watch the Main Event. I'm thinking of purchasing it for $7.


Ive seen every 2006 PPV and in my opinion this is how i would list them.

1.Wrestlemania 22
2.One Night Stand
3.Unforgiven
4.Armageddon
5.No Mercy
6.No Way Out
7.Backlash
8.Summerslam
9.Judgment Day
10.Royal Rumble
11.Survivor Series
12.Great American Bash
13.Vengeance
14.New Years Revolution
15.Cyber Sunday
16.December to Dismember

Wow, i didnt know how many PPVs there were in 2006 

Anyway i wouldnt say No Way Out 2006 is a must have DVD for a wrestling fan, its not like a MITB 2011 PPV but its a really good show with 2 good main events.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Mr.Limelight said:


> What do you guys think of the Flair/Foley I Quit match? I never ever see it mentioned. I thought it was a great match with Foley and Flair both putting in brilliant performances.
> 
> ****


It was really short but it was still a great match. Flair in 05-06 was putting on a ton of good matches.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Alim said:


> It was really short but it was still a great match. Flair in 05-06 was putting on a ton of good matches.


Yeah. Pretty much every match Foley had 2004-2006 in WWE was awesome. 

Wrestlemania 20 - tag match - ****
Backlash 2004 - Orton/Foley ****1/4
Summerslam 2006 - Foley/Flair ****
One Night Stand 2006 - tag match ****
Wrestlemania 202 - Edge/Foley ****1/4
Vengeance 2006 - Foley/Flair **3/4 (still enjoyable when all it was for was to set up the I quit match)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the topic of SD 06... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdiD9Zzcrjg&feature=g-u-u trailer for the new Timeline of the WWE, with Finlay discussing SD 06 .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Yeah. Pretty much every match Foley had 2004-2006 in WWE was awesome.
> 
> Wrestlemania 20 - tag match - ****
> Backlash 2004 - Orton/Foley ****1/4
> ...


Yup I pretty much agree with all those ratings give or take 1/4 on a couple. Flair had his share of good matches too in that time frame

vs. Carlito - Unforgiven 05
vs. HHH - Taboo Tuesday 05
vs. HHH - Survivor Series 05
vs. Edge - Raw TLC
MITB - Wrestlemania 22


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KingCal said:


> On the topic of SD 06... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdiD9Zzcrjg&feature=g-u-u trailer for the new Timeline of the WWE, with Finlay discussing SD 06 .


Finlay was the star of Smackdown in 2006, tbh. Can't wait to watch the full interview.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*John Cena Superstar Collection*

John Cena vs Chris Jericho ARM 08 : **** 3/4*
John Cena vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels SS 09 : ******
John Cena vs Randy Orton RAW 09 : *** 1/4*
John Cena vs The Miz vs John Morrison ER 11 : *****

Cena vs Jericho at Armaggedon is by far the best 1v1 match that these two have ever had IMO. Sure, it was really spotty at times, but the pace was awesome, I felt that Cena sold better than he usually does , and the finisher sequences and various reversals that these 2 put on throughout the match's duration were fantastic. The match has a good length for these two, and I believe it is head and shoulders above what have put out in previous matches (SS 05 and SS 08 come to mind).

I've talked about the SS triple threat about a million fucking times in my life, so I'm probably not going to go too in depth here. Some people have varying opinions of this match, but I thought it was a damn near classic, and a beautiful changeup from the goofy DX that we were seeing on TV at that point. This was a downright exciting match that told a serious, albeit simple story ; what should be easy (getting the WWE championship back to DX) is made hard by two men's excessive egos and will to compete. We get an intense match that would fall into place for me as one of the greatest triple threats ever.

The SSOTY match vs Orton on Raw was a mindfuck... It was just a shorter version of their mediocre (by main event standards anyways) 2009 matches, although I felt the great near falls towards the end were a good touch. Just your average TV match main event, a very very short match.. NO CLUE why it's on the DVD.

The Steel Cage triple threat was a pretty good encounter between 3 men who aren't exactly known for their in ring skills. Morrison was there just for SPOTZ! (or so it seemed) , but what seemed to be horrible chemistry between The Miz and John Cena before, finally paid off in this match, as the two had some pretty memorable exchanges throughout this one. There were many escape attempts, so therefore there was lots of drama in this one. Morrison gets screwed in this one, but it's a shame that they never let him use this to escalate his career to the next level. All in all it's a decent main event to a good PPV, and I understand with the title change and all why it's on this DVD set.

Overall this DVD is what it is. A very cheap, short set that showcases some random Cena matches. For how much I paid for it, it's definitely worth seeing sans Orton match. Pick it up

*5.5/10*

*Zack Ryder Superstar Collection*

Zack Ryder vs Christian ECW 2009 :* *** 1/4*
Zack Ryder vs Dolph Ziggler Raw 11 : ** 1/2*
Zack Ryder/John Cena vs Awesome Truth Raw 11 :* ***
Zack Ryder vs John Cena Raw 11 : *** 1/4*
Zack Ryder/Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett/Dolph Ziggler SD 11 : *** 1/4*
Zack Ryder vs Dolph Ziggler TLC 11 : **** 1/4*

The ECW match vs Christian is pretty damned awesome. We get some great back and forth action, and as far as I'm concerned, this was Zack's coming out party from an in-ring perspective. Christian was awesome as usual, as these two both switched up their offenses from ground based to high flying in a matter of minutes. A GREAT match by TV standards, and a fantastic exclusive to add to the set.

The Raw match vs Dolph is a very, very short match. However, it's a pivotal moment in the career of Ryder and the crowd is just MOLTEN hot for him at this point, and to see him pick up a major victory with Hugh Jackman in his corner was a giant step forward for the Ryder Revolution. Less of a match and more of a moment in the career of Zack Ryder.

The tag match vs Awesome Truth was very MEH in my opinion. Way too much time focusing on The Rock, and besides : The match was drawn out as fuck. They play the "Babyfaces in peril" card not once, but TWICE in this match. Lots of slow, bad beatdowns by both The Miz and R-Truth on both faces. Very basic, dull wrestling here that I wouldn't recommend. A pretty technically sound match with a half decent climax, but not a very good match overall.

The "social experiment" vs John Cena was a pretty decent match for the amount of time that it got. This was probably the apex of Ryder's career in terms of being credible... I mean... He was in there locking up and putting on a decent match with the face of the company, and he ISN'T being squashed. A great segment overall and an okay match featuring some fast paced action.

The Smackdown tag match was just odd. Barrett bored the hell out of me like he always does, and apart from Orton going insane with his moveset at the end of the match, I remember NOTHING about this match. I mean, it wasn't BAD, but it was such a forgettable match that it's not worth going out of your way to see at all. I'd classify this as being probably the worst segment on the entire disc.

The TLC match vs Dolph is probably Ryder's best match up to this point (I do believe, could be some TV stuff that I'm missing). This match was just white hot action with an extremely fast pace and some great moves. Just overall exciting and worth a watch for sure. The near falls towards the end were fantastic and I'm glad that they chose to end the DVD on Ryder's greatest individual achievement... Why did they stop pushing this guy again ?

The match quality on this one isn't as good as the Cena one, but the amount of exclusive content mixed with some entertaining moments makes me put this one SLIGHTLY ahead of the Cena DVD. Ryder is like a mid-late-80s WWF wrestler ; A bright gimmick and in ring skills, but wrestles basic matches due to his colorful gimmick. Ryder hasn't had very many GREAT matches in his career so I find it fitting that we get some big moments from his career.

*5.75/10*

Both the Bryan & Sheamus releases look better than these two. Love the cheap prices on these DVDs (even though they all feature around an hour and a half of content). Compiling my final HHH PPV match list as we speak, and wondering should I do it in parts or just feature it as one huge list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Totally NOT a fan of the Christian/Ryder ECW matches. Thought they were probably the worst matches of Christians epic ECW 09 run (not counting the 9 second match with Regal on PPV or however long it lasted lol).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I love the Cena/HHH/HBK triple threat from Survivor Series. The (non)build was abysmal but I loved the shit out of the match. 3 of my all time favorites mixing it up. Perfect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, triple threat was great. Superkick to start it off was just awesome. One of those great moments to watch live.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No Way Out 2006:

Benoit/Booker T - ****1/4 (absolutely loved this and Benoit saying "Cooooooooward" in the beginning made me ROFL.)

Orton/Mysterio - ****1/4

Angle/Undertaker - ****3/4


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Alim said:


> Yup I pretty much agree with all those ratings give or take 1/4 on a couple. Flair had his share of good matches too in that time frame
> 
> vs. Carlito - Unforgiven 05
> vs. HHH - Taboo Tuesday 05
> ...


Agree, all really good matches. I still think Flair should of won that MITB match, he would be incredible with a MITB briefcase.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Agree, all really good matches. I still think Flair should of won that MITB match, he would be incredible with a MITB briefcase.


But then we wouldn't be able to have the awesome RVD/Cena match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alim said:


> But then we wouldn't be able to have the awesome RVD/Cena match


Instead we could have had an even better match between Flair and Cena, with Flair winning the belt for the 17th time WOOOOOOOOOOO. Probably would have been a better title run that RVD's shitty run that ended because he's a fucking moron .


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Alim said:


> But then we wouldn't be able to have the awesome RVD/Cena match


I reckon we still would of got that at ONS, but it would of been good to see Flair/Cena at Summerslam which would also have a great atmosphere.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Instead we could have had an even better match between Flair and Cena, with Flair winning the belt for the 17th time WOOOOOOOOOOO. Probably would have been a better title run that RVD's shitty run that ended because he's a fucking moron .


I wouldn't call it shitty. His one month reign was more entertaining than Cena's year long reign.



Mr.Limelight said:


> I reckon we still would of got that at ONS, but it would of been good to see Flair/Cena at Summerslam which would also have a great atmosphere.


Now that I think about it yeah that would be a pretty good main event... better than Edge/Cena from that same event probably


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone at the time holding the belt over Cena would have been more entertaining .


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Theres a lot of things i like about Raw 06, but i think it could of been better than SD 06 if DX didnt return and Edge held the belt for alot longer than he did. We could of got a long HHH (as a heel) v Cena feud which could of been awesome. We could of got Flair holding the title for a while before losing to Edge (TLC match). We could of got a long Edge reign from mid 06 to Wrestlemania 23. HBK could feud with Orton and Edge and others inbetween. I always think WWE missed out on a potential great year in 06 (not that i think Raw 06 was bad, i enjoyed it a lot).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Amazing just how much DX killed Raw 06. Urgh. Some real hidden gems on TV from that year that I've found so far. Had to stop doing my Raw 06 project since the episode I'm up to is such shitty quality I couldn't watch it, and I don't want to skip a show and miss any match/storyline progression lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> On the topic of SD 06... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdiD9Zzcrjg&feature=g-u-u trailer for the new Timeline of the WWE, with Finlay discussing SD 06 .


"Was anyone watching TNA?"

*chuckles*

"No No No"

:lmao I did not think my admiration for that man could increase but it may well just have.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

WM 22 - HHH v Cena - Cena wins
Flair wins MITB

BL - HHH v Cena - HHH wins

Veng - HHH v Cena (LMS)- Flair cashes in

SS - HHH v Flair v Cena - Flair

Raw - Edge v Flair (TLC) - Edge wins with a bit of HHH help

Unf - Edge v Cena (TLC) - Edge wins
HHH v Flair (HIAC) - HHH wins

Thats how id of booked the title scene up from WM - Unforgiven 06. RVD didnt need his reign when he ECW champ.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


>


Looks great, pre-ordered it myself today.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Punk DVD trailer made me mark the fuck out.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Brye said:


> That Punk DVD trailer made me mark the fuck out.


Reminded me heavily of these at the end











Should be a good DVD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Match Rankings : The List (DUD-***)*

**** Cutoff*
94. WM 25 vs Randy Orton
95. WM 21 vs Batista
96. SS 08 vs The Great Khali
97. SS 03 Elimination Chamber
98. JD 08 vs Randy Orton
99. SS 99 vs The Rock vs Big Show
100. UNF 04 vs Randy Orton
101. IYH 15 vs Flash Funk
102. SS 00 vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle
103. IYH 11 vs Steve Austin
104. BL 03 W/Flair & Jericho vs Michaels/Booker/Nash
105. IYH 4 vs Fatu
106. IYH 8 vs Marc Mero

*** 3/4 Territory*
107. NM 07 vs Randy Orton
108. SS 06 DX vs Mcmahons
109. ER 08 vs Randy Orton
110. SS 06 vs Team Rated RKO
111. INSX 03 vs Kevin Nash
112. NM 02 vs Kane
113. SS 07 Elimination Tag
114. CC 99 vs Jeff Jarrett
115. INSX 00 vs Shane Mcmahon vs The Rock
116. INSX 01 W/Steve Austin vs Undertaker
117. IYH 12 vs Marc Mero

*** 1/2 Territory*
118. NM 07 vs Umaga
119. OTE 99 vs The Rock
120. ER 2010 vs Sheamus
121. ARM 03 vs Kane vs Goldberg
122. WM 15 vs Kane
123. WM 13 vs Goldust
124. KOTR 97 vs Ahmed Johnson
125. SS 95 Elimination Tag
126. OTE 98 vs Nation of Domination

*** 1/4 Territory*
127. SS 03 vs Goldberg
128. KOTR 2000 w/Mcmahons vs Taker/Kane/Rock
129. SS 07 vs King Booker
130. UNF 03 vs Goldberg
131. UNF 07 vs Carlito
132. RR 97 vs Goldust
133. RR 96 vs Duke Drose
134. SS 96 Elimination Tag
135. IYH 6 vs Duke Drose

*** Territory*
136. IYH 5 vs Henry Godwinn
137. SS 95 vs Bob Holly
138. SS 08 vs Kozlov vs Edge

** 3/4 Territory*
139. IYH 19 vs Sgt Slaughter
140. BL 02 vs Hulk Hogan
141. KOTR 02 vs Undertaker
142. VEN 06 DX vs The Spirit Squad

143. JD 03 vs Kevin Nash : ** 1/2*

144. NWO 03 vs Scott Steiner : ** 1/4*

145. RR 03 vs Scott Steiner : * 1/2 **

146. WM XII vs The Ultimate Warrior : *DUD*

Once I have the entire list posted, I'm going to go completely in depth with a list of Hunter's most underrated/overrated PPV matches, best opponents based on STARZ! quality, and other MISC. Triple H fanboy activity. All I know is, this is the list that was 3 months in the making and I hope you enjoy it !


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched a few matches from NWO 06 myself recently. Taker/Angle holds up as an awesome match. Hardy/Tatanka v MNM was all right, and Benoit/Booker went way too long and was not the right blow off match at all. It was actually quite dull and was the worst Benoit/Booker match easily.

Seen Rey/Orton enough to know where I stand on it without watching it again, plus they need to cut the Eddie Guerrero shit out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_CM Punk vs John Cena (Number One Contender's Match) : RAW AUG 22nd 2011_

This is for the number one contendership at Night of Champions, as we are still in the middle of The Summer of Punk here. These two always put together a fantastic contest so I'm sure this will be no exception. The beginning of the match features some very impressive chain wrestling, particularly by John Cena standards, as they quickly throwback to their classic Summerslam encounter with head scissors takedowns and impressive leapfrogs by Cena. The pace here is absolutely insane, as these two are going a mile a minute in this one. Love the early finisher attempts by both men in this one that are both easily countered, I find that it hammers across that these two men are equal, and minus shenanigans neither one can beat the other one. The crowd is white hot here, as Punk mocks Cena's 5 knuckle shuffle early on, and gets in some GREAT offense which incorporates both ground and aerial techniques.

Cena's selling for Punk here is superb, as Punk hits a high knee that looks to have broken Cena absolutely in half. Both men throw out all of their stuff which seems to be really hit and miss as the contest moves towards it's climax. Two FANTASTIC near falls end us off, as it seems that neither man can put the other one down. (as a side note, Punk's counters in this are amazing) It takes Kevin Nash interference of some sort to give Cena the victory and move on to NOC. Fantastic match here with a big fight atmosphere, an amazing pace, and some impressive wrestling. A surprisingly well layered match for a contest that lasted around 11 minutes. This will be the forgotten classic that will go down in the vault of the WWE forever. One of the most remarkable TV matches that I have ever seen, and my definite TV MOTY for 2011.

******

I think it's time to review CM Punk's run from the Work/Shoot to now.....


----------



## Regenerating Degenerate (Jul 5, 2009)

Cant wait for the Punk DVD, whens it due out?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

October.


----------



## Regenerating Degenerate (Jul 5, 2009)

Damn, canny while.


----------



## English Dragon (Apr 10, 2010)

What did everyone think of Bryan/Cena on RAW?

My two favourite wrestlers so I really enjoyed it, thought it was a good TV match for the time they had. Can't wait to see them get a proper feud in the years to come.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

_Chris Masters VS Dolph Ziggler - Superstars, 13-5-2010_
As good as expected from these two really, with some sick looking bumps from both of them (Ziggler faceplanting the floor and being slingshotted being my highlights). Match is built around the submission finishers of both guys really but Dolph keeps going to occasionally try and outpower Masters only for it to fail and have him resort to being a little shit to get the upper hand. Really liked the finish too.
****1/2*

_Jamie Noble vs Rey Mysterio - Velocity, 5/1/04_
Awesome mat exchanges to start with and Noble going for the arm looks really painful at times plus he sticks with it throughout the match which is great to see. Really nice spots too like the northern lights suplex and armbar sequences. Highflying and mat stuff linked really well together and the match flew by.
******

_Rey Mysterio vs Finlay - Smackdown, June 06_
Some signs of a decent match here and on paper it sounded great. But it was quite short and had a screwy finish so bleh. Did these two have any good-great matches in 06 b/c iirc Smackdown was pretty stacked then?
***1/2*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Thought it (Bryan/Cena) was pretty good but I need to watch again because I was flipping to the Olympics too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Shepard said:


> _Chris Masters VS Dolph Ziggler - Superstars, 13-5-2010_
> As good as expected from these two really, with some sick looking bumps from both of them (Ziggler faceplanting the floor and being slingshotted being my highlights). Match is built around the submission finishers of both guys really but Dolph keeps going to occasionally try and outpower Masters only for it to fail and have him resort to being a little shit to get the upper hand. Really liked the finish too.
> ****1/2*
> 
> ...



Excellent stuff here, mirror your thoughts completely really. Noble/Mysterio is an underrated TV classic, and the perfect example of good juniors style wrestling with enough substance and struggle to make each exchange matter in the grand scheme of things.

Masters/Ziggler was one of the most visually pleasing matches I'd seen in forever when I first saw it, so refreshing in 2010 to see a match focusing on a full nelson vs a sleeper hold. Excellent bumping and timing from both men and a really well put together match which sold me on Masters being reborn as a worker.

Can't recall for certain how many matches Mysterio/Finlay had together, but here's a write-up from *sterling* about a match of theirs from 2007:



> Rey Mysterio vs. Finlay - Smackdown 11/9/2007
> 
> Really great little match. I've talked about how great Rey is at bringing out the dickweed in his opponents, and we see that early on as Finlay gives Rey a shove and looks like a total bully. JBL and Cole are great, going back-and-forth, with JBL supporting Finlay and playing devil's advocate and antagonizing Cole. Finlay looks really great on offense, and Cole puts over how he just wants to hurt Rey, and it really does look like he's just trying to fuck Rey up. Rey gets some early offense with a rana over the top to the outside, followed by a baseball kick and a moonsault. He takes it to Finlay for a while, but then Finlay kicks him in the gut to take control. Not the most stunning transition spot, but it's not a big deal because Finlay immediately looks awesome on offense, throwing nasty boots and forearms and uppercuts. Tons of awesome spots, including a callback to the rana from earlier, except this time Finlay counters and throws Rey headfirst into the buckle. He works over the back and locks in a vicious-looking Boston crab. Finlay does his usual thing of using all of the environment, throwing Rey into the ropes or the turnbuckle and smashing him into the ring and the barricade, and it's all awesome, and Rey weaves in tons of great hope spots. Really awesome moment where Finlay dodges a 619, but then Rey kicks him in the face anyway. Another great spot after Rey hits the 619: he goes for a springboard but Finlay just dives at the ropes-- the timing is really perfect-- and Rey crumples to the ground, allowing Finlay to hit his finisher. Bossy match. Maybe better than the 3/24/06 match, but they're comparable in quality, and they're both great for same reasons (Finlay's great; Rey's great), so I'm not going to argue that. Now, I do think Rey's selling could've been better while he was on offense, and it definitely wasn't on the same level as what Hardy did. But he still sold well and he bumped like a maniac and his facial expressions were all great.


Quick little search on another forum seems to indicate a consensus that this might be their best match together, at least compared to a 2006 match (no idea if its the same match you watched). I do also recall Andy doing a Finlay project and a Mysterio match being included, will search his blog now to see if its the same match.


EDIT:

Andy's thoughts on Mysterio/Finlay 03/24/06:



> Finlay/Rey is a really awesome match-up, and this might be their best match together. WWE Rey Mysterio is obviously less about doing crazy shit and innovating this or that or the other than WCW Rey Mysterio was. WWE Rey Mysterio is all about selling from the bottom and making comebacks. He's a guy you can stick in there with practically anybody WWE's had on their roster for as long as he's been there and it'd result in something at least watchable. Ideally you (or at least I) want him in there with someone that can lay down a good beating...and who lays down a better beating than Fit Finlay? Match goes about 15 minutes and Finlay just beats the holy fuck out of Rey for almost all of it, while Rey does what he does and throws in his hope spots and comebacks. When these guys wrestle it feels less like Rey is being "worked over" -- he's being straight up BULLIED. Finlay just launches him spine-first into the barricade and starts working over his neck and back a bit. It's the kind of thing aspiring pro-wrestlers watch and think "nah, on second thought I'll just take that job at McDonald's. I'd rather flip burgers and spit on chicken nuggets than have Fit Finlay stretch me until my chin touches my nipples." He throws a forearm uppercut right to Rey's neck at one point and it looked just motherfucking ungodly. Rey also seemed to ramp up the stiffness on his end any time he'd work with Finlay, and he really lays in a few shots here. Finlay tries to roll him up with a sunset flip, but Rey rolls all the way through and completely blasts his ear off with a roundhouse kick. The 619 isn't something that looks good in a "holy shit I buy THAT knocking someone out" kind of way very often, but Finlay takes it like a fucking man; two shins square in the nose. Finish is screwy, but for a screwy finish that would be pretty hard to nail perfectly, this was nailed pretty much perfectly.



Mysterio/Finlay 09/08/06



> This is another match-up that rarely fails to deliver. This go- around was more one-sided than usual, but it was a pretty awesome display of Finlay roughing up a little dude for just under 15 minutes. The previous week Vicki Guerrero had slapped Rey and sided with Chavo as part of the whole Eddie-sploitation nonsense, so Rey comes into this playing up the idea that his head isn't in the game. Finlay doesn't give two shits and just bullies him, and you get the sense that if he doesn't ditch the baggage then he's going to wake up the next morning with a couple nice bruises. He hits his hope spots and his timing is as impeccable as you'd expect, but this is really all about Finlay coming up with interesting ways to beat him up. He's like Carlos Santana fucking around with a guitar and making magic. Plus he's an amazing shit talker, slapping Rey in the corner; "Some'in the matter, Rey? Some'in the matter?" You never really hear Finlay being pimped as a great in-ring shit talker, but the guy is pretty spectacular at it. Finish is also choice with Rey attempting a springboard only to flub it (they play it up as his mind still being elsewhere enough times that I suspect it was deliberate), Finlay taking advantage and spiking him with the Celtic Cross. Mysterio's such a good opponent for Finlay, because he's not afraid to truly get his ass handed to him. Their matches don't have the same Finlay/Regal or Finlay/Benoit levels of stiffness, but Rey can take a beating like Benoit or Regal, or indeed most guys in wrestling history, can't. It makes for an awesome yet different dynamic, and like Finlay/Regal, it's a match-up I'll never get sick of.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

I'll have to check out that 07 match and match I watched didn't have a date, but had Heyman on commentary and loads of ONS references so I assumed it was June-ish so the 3/24/06 & 09/08/06 will be new to me too and I'll give those a watch as well, thanks (Y)


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

*Offical Trailer: ROCK VS CENA~ONCE IN A LIFETIME*


----------



## EyebrowRaiser (Aug 4, 2012)

Saw the Sheamus and Bryan Superstar Collection DVD's today. They are new right?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, just recently released this week I think.


----------



## SharpshooterSmith (May 7, 2011)

Just watched John Cena's debut match against Kurt Angle from SmackDown 6/27/02. Wow, talk about a great debut match. You would never see anything like that in the WWE of today. They gave a young guy the opportunity to go out there and wrestle Angle and they put on a very good, albeit quick, TV match. Also, Cena was much better in the ring back then. It probably has a lot to due with how much smaller he was.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Vengeance 2003:*

Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit - **** (Fantastic match by two of the greatest and Eddie lying, cheating & stealing like only he can. May they R.I.P.)
Jamie Noble vs Billy Gunn - ** (Uninteresting to say the least. Crowd chanting "We want Torrie" two weeks before in another match between them sums things up.)
APA Bar Brawl - *** (Pretty fun stuff that we'll never see in WWE today.)
World's Greatest Tag Team vs Rey Mysterio/Billy Kidman - ***1/4 (Some cool spots and nice back and forth tag team action.)
Sable vs Stephanie McMahon - *1/2 (Aside from the sexiness, nothing to look forward to in terms of wrestling.)
Undertaker vs John Cena - ***3/4 (Highly enjoyable. Now please, have another match at Wrestlemania soon!)
Vince McMahon vs Zach Gowen - ** (Outside of Zach doing some nice springboarding and moonsaults, this is forgettable.)
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle vs Big Show - **** (AWESOME main event! Cool back and forth action and Angle sneaks out with the win.)

Overall: ***1/4 out of ***** (So much better than Bad Blood. Smackdown truly is the superior brand at this point and with Hulk Hogan/Mr. America gone, it's a lot more enjoyable now.)


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

How is that Clash of the Champions dvd?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Since Summerslam is this month here are my top 10 Summerslam matches:

My top 10:

1. Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - 2001 *****
2. TLC I - 2000 ****3/4
3. The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar - 2002 ****3/4
4. Edge vs. The Undertaker - 2008 ****3/4
5. Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker - 1997 ****1/2
6. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect - 1991 ****1/2
7. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - 2003 ****1/4
8. Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - 2004 ****1/4
9. CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy - 2009 ****
10. John Cena vs. CM Punk - 2011 ****

Honourable mention to HHH/HBK 2002, Bret/Bulldog 1992, Austin/Taker 1998, and Cena/Batista 2008


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Over The Limit 2012*

People Power Battle Royal : ** 1/2
R-Truth/Kofi Kingston vs Zig/Swag : ***
Layla vs Beth Phoenix : ** 1/2

_Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto Del Rio_

Had this at **** on my first watch, checking back in on DVD to see how it holds up. Very slow build here, they stay in the feeling out process for a while with the faces going against the heels and the heels teaming up against the faces. Liked (not loved) the exchange between Sheamus and Orton, and I always thought their chemistry was OKAY if nothing else. Jericho was pretty boss in this one, making EVERYBODY look good. When the heel alliance finally explodes, this thing finally begins to pick up, and we go into a finisher fest and a near fall frenzy.

This segment of the match is fucking fantastic, and one of the best near fall sequences I've ever seen. The pace is awesomely fast and all 4 men look good in this segment. I have a simple problem with this however ; This near fall and heightened pace came out of NOWHERE. We had a slow build where everybody was feeling each other out, and then we explode to the climax of the match. The drama is there, but I feel this match needed a better middle portion to really be a classic. Is it a great match ? No doubt as the last 5 minutes are some of the best I've ever seen, and neither man comes out of this looking weak. Not exactly a SHOW STOPPING match, but a match you enjoy more on the first watch. Exciting.

**** 1/2*

The Miz vs Brodus Clay : ** 3/4*

_CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan_

Who would have ever thought that these two would SEMI main event (I love you Cena, but this should have gone on last) a PPV for the WWE championship ? We start off with some really stiff kicks by both men as the big fight atmosphere is there, but these guys don't pander to the crowd at all. This tells me one thing ; the audience is buying into the actual WRESTLING of the match, which is something we don't see too often. These guys go back and forth and back and forth with some really brutal strikes that kind of remind me of the chops that we saw in the Steamboat-Flair series. Early on Punk begins to work Bryan's leg with some good kicks, and it essentially becomes a bullseye for the rest of the match, as well as when Bryan begins to target Punk's ribs. What we get from these two in this match is some of the best fucking psychology I've ever seen, as both men sell their injuries PERFECTLY.

Now I'm going to talk about the various holds and moves used in this match. Both men use a wide array of moves that they don't normally use, such as Punk whipping out a dueling figure four leglock to the injured leg of Bryan, or Bryan using a Mexican surfboard to stabilize Punk. These moves look brutal (in a good way of course) and it only serves to me as a reminder that straight up wrestling can be exciting to everybody if executed correctly. Besides using unique holds, both men use a variety of aerial manuevers on each other, complete with top rope springboards and perfect double missle dropkicks. This adds a more exciting dimension to an already awesome match, as we see the slow build that we were getting earlier gradually build into a more well layered encounter (take notes SD FFW !). We then move to what I perceive to be the climax of the match, with both men trying to hit that home run manuever but not seemingly being able to (that missed kick sequence is awesome and you should check it out right now) until Bryan gets the YES! Lock. 

This leads us to an interesting finish, as Punk rolls over and gets Bryan down for the 123 and the win, however he taps seconds after the bell rings. I thought it was a good finish as Punk more or less SURVIVED Bryan and caught him in his own move, rather than definitively beating him. After this match, I'm fucking spent. The brutality without having to use a single weapon or resort to spotty wrestling, the amazing psychology and brilliant storytelling, the back and forth technical wrestling and fantastic holds, I think I just had a wrestling orgasm. Wait... No, definitely not. It's giving me a REALLY hard time to say this but.... THIS is the MOTY so far in 2012 (I'm sorry Trips  ). Everything clicked, and for SOME REASON I'm not going to give this the full five, although I might if I sleep on it. Might be a top 25 WWE match of all time IMO. Watch this immediately.

***** 3/4*

Ryback vs Camacho : *N/A*

_John Cena vs John Laurinaitis _

If I could describe this match in one word (minus the ending) , it would be FUN. This is your typical big time face destroys corporate figure match, except this is less intense and more of a comedy type match. Cena doesn't BRUTALLY beat Johnny Ace throughout the match, he just toys with Ace until the finish. It was interesting and it kept me engaged, especially Johnny Ace's Booker T impression that had me cracking up. It was something we haven't seen before in the main event of a PPV , but I feel that it somewhat worked... Until the finish.

Oh my god, do I HATE the ending to this PPV. Not that Johnny Ace won, it's just the fact that we laid witness to one of the worst heel turns in history. Here's a few reasons why this ending sucked : Number one , this was extremely obvious. Number two, this is 2012 and the Big Show switches allegiances atleast 3 times a year so nobody really cares. Number three, if you're going to go this route, DO IT BEFORE THE EPIC WWE CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH. Why did this have to end the PPV... I mean... THE BIG SHOW ? If it had to be somebody relevant like Punk or Ryder it would have been cool, but SHOW ? Ugh nevermind. This was super fun while it lasted, but the ending pisses me off more than anything I've ever seen in wrestling, and that's saying ALOT. Hard to grade, so we'll give it an average one.

*** 1/2*

_Thoughts_

This PPV exceeded my expectations, the main reason being that we got an all time classic featuring the 2 greatest workers the business has to offer today and my personal MOTY so far. Not only do we get that, but we get another pretty great world title match that featuring an exciting finish, and a pretty great opener by today's tag team standards (battle royal technically isn't the opener). It's the kind of show where nothing is really BAD at all, as I thought everything on this was either decent-great, or just short (Clay, Ryback). Fuck, I even enjoyed the WOMEN'S match, and that's saying something. I WOULD say that this is a complete show that you should check out, but the last 5 minutes of the PPV has really been an albatross for me, sinking in down into the depths. Still, despite the fucked up ending, we get one of the greatest matches of our time and some good complimentary pieces to that. Not as good as ER or Mania, but a pretty good PPV in it's own right.

*7.5/10*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> _CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan_
> 
> Who would have ever thought that these two would SEMI main event (I love you Cena, but this should have gone on last) a PPV for the WWE championship ? We start off with some really stiff kicks by both men as the big fight atmosphere is there, but these guys don't pander to the crowd at all. This tells me one thing ; the audience is buying into the actual WRESTLING of the match, which is something we don't see too often. These guys go back and forth and back and forth with some really brutal strikes that kind of remind me of the chops that we saw in the Steamboat-Flair series. Early on Punk begins to work Bryan's leg with some good kicks, and it essentially becomes a bullseye for the rest of the match, as well as when Bryan begins to target Punk's ribs. What we get from these two in this match is some of the best fucking psychology I've ever seen, as both men sell their injuries PERFECTLY.
> 
> ...


I think I know why. You just have to pretend Daniel Bryan is HHH. That should do the trick. 

Anyway, it's by far my MOTY and I do have it at the full 5. What a fucking classic rasslin' match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have it at ****3/4 and it's my MOTY as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Obis, if I pictured HHH as Bryan , we would have had Punk vs HHH. Since I've been lobbying for a Wrestlemania feud between the two for like 3 years now (minus the shenanigans of the first match, with Punk going over this time), the match would probably get Five HUNDRED STARZ! from myself. With that being said, you made it extremely easy to segway into this..

*Triple H PPV Matches : The List (*** 1/4 - *** 3/4)*

**** 3/4 Cutoff*
45. ARM 07 vs Jeff Hardy
46. CS 07 vs Umaga
47. TT 04 vs Shawn Michaels
48. BL 05 vs Batista
49. VEN 04 vs Chris Benoit
50. RR 04 vs Shawn Michaels
51. ARM 08 vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy
52. ARM 02 vs Shawn Michaels
53. NWO 98 W/ New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega vs Owen Hart, Chainsaw Charlie, Cactus Jack, & Steve Austin
54. WM 14 vs Owen Hart
55. JD 02 vs Chris Jericho
56. UNF 99 Six-Pack Challenge

**** 1/2 Matches*
57. SS 04 vs Eugene
58. CS 08 vs Jeff Hardy
59. TLC 11 vs Kevin Nash
60. WM 24 vs John Cena vs Randy Orton
61. IYH 23 FL vs The Rock
62. BB 03 vs Kevin Nash
63. RR 05 vs Randy Orton
64. WM 18 vs Chris Jericho
65. BP 09 DX vs Legacy
66. WM XXVI vs Sheamus
67. FL 99 vs The Rock
68. TLC 09 DX vs Jerishow
69. UNF 00 vs Kurt Angle
70. EC 10 Raw Elimination Chamber
71. BR 09 Raw vs Smackdown Tag
72. SS 99 vs Steve Austin vs Mankind
73. RR 01 vs Kurt Angle
74. NOC 09 vs Randy Orton vs John Cena
75. IYH 13 vs The Rock

**** 1/4 Matches*
76. VEN 11 W/CM Punk vs Awesome Truth
77. CS 06 vs Rated RKO
78. UNF 06 DX vs Mcmahons/Big Show
79. GAB 08 vs Edge
80. HIAC 09 DX vs Legacy
81. ARM 99 vs Vince Mcmahon
82. NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle
83. UNF 08 WWE Championship Scramble
84. Bash 09 vs Randy Orton
85. BL 09 W/Shane & Batista vs Legacy & Randy Orton
86. BL 08 vs JBL vs Randy Orton vs John Cena
87. GLBWRN 02 vs Brock Lesnar vs The Rock
88. INSX 02 vs The Undertaker
89. STRC 94 vs Alex Wright
90. IYH 21 vs Owen Hart
91. NM 99 (UK) vs Undertaker vs Steve Austin
92. REB 99 vs The Rock
93. IYH SVDM W/Xpac vs Chyna & Kane


Most people who aren't as biased towards Mr. Levesque as I am will see some MAJOR flaws with most of my ratings. To those people I give a resounding FUCK YOU. Trips is the man (and yes, I'm claiming that Trips has wrestled 44 ****+ matches on PPV out of 146, roughly 30 percent.) whether you like it or not  . Final 44 comes tomorrow. Anybody wanna give me a shoutout to tell me about a match that I agree with them on that nobody else does, or how fucking crazy I must be to rate various matches with HBK, Orton, and Batista incrediby high ? Or, speaking of high.. You can ask me WAS I high when I did this list (Being legit serious...partly) ? Anyways....Off to watch some PUNK matches over the last year for my next project


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *Over The Limit 2012*
> 
> _John Cena vs John Laurinaitis _
> 
> ...


I find it funny that you reviewed and gave more than half a star for this match. This crapfest of a match made me ashamed of being a WWE fan.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I legit enjoyed the Big Johnny/Cena match but I knew I would be in the minority. It was heaps of fun watching Cena fuck Laurinaitis up and I think most of the distain from the match mostly stems from the craptacular storyline revolving around the match and the that this stopped the WWE title from going on last. I'd probably go *** on this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Johnny was a fun match, nothing more. Needed perhaps less time, and the finish was so unbelievably obvious it actually hurt the overall match too. But watching Cena maul Johnny, and the bit in the chair at commentary was awesome.

Love Bryan/Punk from OTL. Watched it about 5 times now, even downloaded the show in HD and watched it on my big TV downstairs lol. Love it. Love it love it love it love it love it. ATM I still have Undertaker/HHH HIAC as my #1 MOTY, but OTL is a damn close second. Could do with watching them back to back, but I'm gonna wait until I finally buy WM on Bluray and then do it .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My MOTY is still HHH/Taker closely followed by Lesner/Cena.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Really says something about the quality of matches we've had this year when I can think of 5 legit MOTYC that I can easily see anyone having as their #1 match:

Undertaker/HHH HIAC WM
Punk/Jericho WM
Bryan/Sheamus 2/3 Falls ER
Cena/Lesnar ER
Bryan/Punk OLT

:mark:

A best of 2012 PPV set could be fucking EPIC if they put the right stuff on lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This year has been wonderful for PPV matches. Other than EC which was sort of lacking after the opener.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

2011 is was better in terms of matches IMHO.

The Rumble had that amazing Edge/Ziggler match, both Chamber matches were awesome the month after, Mania had Taker/HHH II, Extreme Rules had great matches in Orton/Punk, Christian/Del Rio, Rhodes/Mysterio, and Cena/Miz/Morrison.

OTL had Christian/Orton in a fast paced MOTYC, Capitol Punishment had Punk/Mysterio, MITB was AMAZING all around. I'm not going to go the entire year, but 2011 was imo the best ring year ever in WWE besides maybe 2002.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lesnar/Cena is comfortably my MOTY so far, but the year has been really strong for ring work.

Bryan/Show at the start of the year despite not setting the world on fire in terms of workrate were just wonderful character driven matches with some great performances by both men, Bryan/Sheamus and Bryan/Punk speak for themselves: some superb selling, offence, striking and depth in both matches.

Punk/Henry on Raw the night after Wrestlemania was one of the strongest TV matches in recent memory, superb David v Goliath match focusing on Henry's character performance, the build to Punk's eventual comeback and Henry being taken off his feet as well as Punk's selling. The type of match that shows off Punk's attributes as a face worker, such a smartly orchestrated match.

Sheamus too has had some strong matches involving Jericho, Orton and Tensai. Its a shame the guy has been given shit to work with in terms of storylines and angles because in terms of his wrestling he's been a fine champion like Punk, only with less support from creative to make his reign anything more than a collection of strong matches.

Taker/HHH and Punk/Jericho didn't particularly wow me for one reason or another, but I did find the finishing sequence in Punk/Jericho at Wrestlemania to be remarkably well done compared to other counter heavy finishing stretches in the past. NXT and Superstars have also been considerably strong in terms of consistent matches, Hunico still needs a bit more depth for me to be fully on his bandwagon but he works these sprint esque matches rather well compared to others and has had some really fun matches. Mcintyre not being given enough time on either show or given a run of decent opponents is a travesty, but the man can still perform and turn in a great performance when needed. And of course Ambrose/Regal II down in FCW was incredible and another notch in WWE's strong year ring wise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

psx71 said:


> 2011 is was better in terms of matches IMHO.
> 
> The Rumble had that amazing Edge/Ziggler match, both Chamber matches were awesome the month after, Mania had Taker/HHH II, Extreme Rules had great matches in Orton/Punk, Christian/Del Rio, Rhodes/Mysterio, and Cena/Miz/Morrison.
> 
> OTL had Christian/Orton in a fast paced MOTYC, Capitol Punishment had Punk/Mysterio, MITB was AMAZING all around. I'm not going to go the entire year, but 2011 was imo the best ring year ever in WWE besides maybe 2002.


2012 ain't over yet . Certainly wouldn't name Edge/Ziggler as a good match either tbh. Didn't think it was good at all. They worked the match horribly considering the stipulation going into it (Edge not being allowed to use the Spear; if he'd worked it like HBK did against Orton when he couldn't use the Superkick, it could have been awesome). Also Orton/Punk for me wasn't that great (WM was alright, didn't enjoy their LMS match or whatever it was). Don't recall anything Cena did that year being good outside of Punk and Mysterio.

Not to say 2011 didn't have plenty of great shit though. HHH/Undertaker WM, Mysterio/Cody WM, Orton/Christian series, Christian/Del Rio, Punk/Cena etc were all great. If I put the top 5 for that year up against the top 5 for this year that I named earlier, I'd probably go with this year overall.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Doing this on my iPhone and I don't really know formatting that well , but IMO there were 5 **** 1/4+ matches that took place in 2011 (HHH-Taker, Cena Punk MITB, Cena Punk SS , Orton Christian OTL, and Orton Christian SS) , while there has already been SEVEN **** 1/4+ matches that have taken place so far in 2012 ( Taker HHH , both Punk-Jerichos , Cena Lesnar ER, Sheamus Bryan 2/3 , and the two ppv Punk Bryan matches ) . That speaks VOLUMES about the big time ppv performances that we've seen lately . We'd be having one of the best ppv years ever if it wasn't for the vast amounts of filler that we've been seeing on just about every big show . Too many squashes and dumb, over saturated segments . (PS: on a rewatch I bumped down HHH-Taker HIAC to **** 1/2. Didn't like what I perceived to be overkill of the sledgehammer.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If I had to rank it:

Sheamus/Ziggler > Edge/Ziggler in terms of WHC title Ziggler matches. Nothing from the Rumble was particularly strong this year.

Miz/Lawler was better than anything on the 2011 and 2012 EC PPVs, although the final interactions between Bryan and Santino were really gripping.

Orton/Punk and Mysterio/Rhodes were stronger than anything at Mania this year, Taker/HHH WM28 was slightly better than WM27 I thought. But I wasn't a huge fan of either match.

Lesnar/Cena and Bryan/Sheamus destroy ER 2011, Punk/Jericho was pretty strong albeit terribly flawed and was also better than either title match at ER 2011.

Bryan/Punk was ever so slightly better than Orton/Christian, although I was a huge fan of the pacing and intelligence in that match, especially the callback spots to their title switch on SD and Christian's seemingly hopeless efforts to defeat Orton.

Punk/Bryan/Kane was a good triple threat, by triple threat standards. But I probably preferred Punk/Mysterio from CP 2011 more, I dunno been a while since I saw that match but I thought it was one of their stronger bouts.

MITB 2011 does indeed destroy MITB 2012, with nothing coming close to matching Punk/Cena from 2011. I'd also say at this point nothing from this year's Summerslam is coming close to topping Punk/Cena II from last year, and despite Orton/Christian not being all that great I also can't see any match eclipsing it at Summerslam this year thanks to the poor looking card.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I Believe that in terms of CONSISTENCY , 2011 has been probably better overall. I just think about all the great tv matches between Punk and Cena , Orton and Christian , Rey and Cena , the raw triple threat , Punk-Del Rio , Bryan-Henry , and especially Punk-Ziggler. However , in 2012 we have the Punk-Bryan and Punk-Henry series's . A very very tough call , but since I'm in love with CM Punk practically , I might go with... Damn he has been amazing both years .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

TV wise 2011 also has the really awesome Masters/Mcintyre Superstars match from May, as well as a really great sub 10 minute match between Mysterio and Mcintyre from March on SD. Mcintyre/Bourne from Superstars was also amazing for the time it got.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*2011 Top 3*

Punk/Cena MITB
HHH/Taker Mania 27
Orton/Christian OTL

*2012 Top 3 (so far)*

HHH/Taker Mania 28
Cena/Lesnar ER
Punk/Bryan OTL


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

2 of the best PPV years in the history in the WWE are 2011 and 2012. We have had so many good PPVs and a few fantastic ones. 

Money In The Bank 2011 and Extreme Rules 2012 are 2 of the greatest PPV's of all time.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

2012 sure has been a great year for PPV's. The only one I didn't like very much was Royal Rumble, all others I very much enjoyed.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Speaking of 2011 and underrated matches, this match is without doubt the sleeper match of the year:






Wrote about it sometime ago.



> *William Regal v Evan Bourne, WWE House Show, Budapest, 21/04/2011*
> 
> Man I love house show matches, seeing Regal employing his various schtick is a joy to watch and something he very rarely can do anymore on television (if he ever even has a match). Him begging Bourne into accepting his hand whilst whispering to the crowd to shut up was brilliant. The match has some nice chain wrestling like in the Bryan match and Regal bumps remarkably well for his age and physique on a few of Bourne's monkey flips and arm drags. The match also features a lovely armbar sequence where Regal locks it in, survives a Bourne headscissors, counters into a bodyslam all whilst keeping control of the armbar. He throws a few more stiffer strikes than in the Bryan match especially the knees, and Bourne being kept on the mat for so long always works in building the crowd's anticipation for his exciting offence. Crowd noticeably gets livelier as Bourne starts to fly and there's a lovely set up for the Air Bourne. Great match!


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

That was a fun way to spend 10 or so minutes. Don't think I'm as high on it as you but it was still a good match. The handshake thing and armbar sequence are great, really liked the finish too. Bourne made some of those strikes look legit painful too. I think there was something like a running elbow he took which just looked nasty.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah its the sort of schtick you don't see on TV due to time constraints, part of the reason why WWE House Show matches are so much fun. And again its amazing how little sequences in the early beginning can be used to develop and build to the rest of the match, rather than being thrown in for little rhyme or reason. A match which is based entirely around the characters of the respective wrestlers, and the sort of match WWE really does well but never on the big shows.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Really says something about the quality of matches we've had this year when I can think of 5 legit MOTYC that I can easily see anyone having as their #1 match:
> 
> Undertaker/HHH HIAC WM
> Punk/Jericho WM
> ...


I think Punk/Bryan MITB should be on that list too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't think their MITB match was nearly as good as OTL or the other matches I listed. Still really good, but like Punk/Jericho from ER, I thought the stip and the weapons actually brought the whole thing down.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I need to rewatch Punk/Bryan from MITB. I had it at ****1/2, I believe. Really liked it but I've only watched it once.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk/Jericho from ER was definitely a letdown for me. I don't think Punk/Bryan was at all, though. The use of weapons was very effective, unlike the Punk/Jericho match. Sure, their OTL was a technical masterpiece, but the MITB match showed that both could brawl as well as wrestle, and it showed the progression of their feud and just how personal it had become. They started as opponents showcasing their technical skills (who really is the best in the world), but as their feud lengthened and AJ was thrown into the mix, a lot of the holds used in their OTL encounter went right out the window. Plus, the YES! Lock with the aid of the kendo stick was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly I think I would have liked the match more had no weapons been introduced until AJ slid the chair in the middle and essentially made them fight for it. Would have made the spot mean a whole lot more imo.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

NearFall said:


> *Offical Trailer: ROCK VS CENA~ONCE IN A LIFETIME*


Looks awesome. The extras and the special camera angle for the match should be great. Along with all the promos but I already have them anyway. I hope they're going to show the rare, once a generation emotion this program created from the mainstream media, to the locker room, to the wrestling audience. It will be special to look at how big it was years from now.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Speaking of 2011 and underrated matches, this match is without doubt the sleeper match of the year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw this a while back and thought it fucking fun match.

My review...



Cactus said:


> *William Regal vs Evan Bourne
> WWE live event; 2011/04/21*
> 
> Vintage Regal. The crowd consists mainly of kids want to see Evan do some flips to keep them entertained, but Regal isn't have this. He cuts of Bourne with bland headlocks and strikes to garner himself some pretty impressive heel heat and gave the kid's a reason to get behind Bourne so they can see his more exciting (for them at least) spots. Hot crowd, very good match and REGAL~! You can't go wrong with those three.
> ...


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Looks awesome. The extras and the special camera angle for the match should be great. Along with all the promos but I already have them anyway. *I hope they're going to show the rare, once a generation emotion this program created from the mainstream media, to the locker room, to the wrestling audience.* It will be special to look at how big it was years from now.


That is exactly what it needs to help it sell. Footage from day-to-day Cena, Rock and other big stars in the locker room and the public fans, over the course of the year to get opinions on how it is building etc. Aswell as some footage of pre-wrestlemania fans at the gate thoughts would be awesome.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Triple H vs. Dave Batista vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho vs. Edge (World Heavyweight Championship-Elimination Chamber-Special Referee: Shawn Michaels)
WWE New Year's Revolution '05- San Juan, PR

Quick Thoughts: In hindsight, this match was simply used to build up Big Dave for his upcoming RR win, give HHH his tenth reign and set up his RR and WM matches against Orton & Batista respectively and they all came out strong. They did all of that while still putting together a great Chamber match.*

-The buildup was great and funny how JR blew a gasket before the match even started. Start by saying that everyone was BUFF as shit (well except Jericho), Big Dave was built like a Greek God and Orton's entrance reminded me of how forced his original babyface run was. Good to start with the workhorses, they manage to work at a solid pace and delivered some spots while not giving everything away too early and slowly buildup with each entry. That double submission on Triple H right before Batista enters the match was a stroke of brilliance. Once Dave got in the match picked up super quick, lots of big and impressive power moves; his elimination kept him strong and that little move by HHH in the corner, again brilliant. At the fever pitch, they go for the finish keeping Orton strong. Great crowd too and good that kept Shawn in the match in a meaningful way.
_________

*30 Man Royal Rumble Match
WWE Royal Rumble '05- Fresno, California

Quick Thoughts: Solid Rumble match. I remember everyone betting on Cena to win, didn’t matter what was important was that Cena and Batista were the last two and rightfully so, they had to be. Not a special rumble but a solid one that would lay the groundwork for the two faces of the post Attitude Era and each separate brand; could’ve done without the restart but watching Vince tear his quads and his reaction was worth it in a sick way. Tazz was unbearable on commentary.*

Starting with Eddie and Benoit was pretty clever given the year earlier. Hardcore Holly doesn't like anybody... and hates rookies, funny. Hassan didn't last long. Cena, Dave and Flair definitely got the biggest reactions followed by Mysterio. Elimination of the night goes to Snitsky, he fucked London up. However, Rumble MVP goes to Ric Flair, he was hilarious here. The key difference in this Rumble versus many others is that no one dominated for a noticeable amount of time so no one stood out and this rumble was pretty short to boot. When Vince tore his quads getting into the ring and his reaction afterwards I don't think I've ever laughed that hard :lol


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*Triple H vs. Cactus Jack*​
What a match this is, one of my favourites of all time. I watched this match live and afterwards really thought again by Triple H, I looked at him differently after this match and after this feud. He is an absolute monster of a worker and boy he's one tough son of a bitch.

One of the best matches of the Attitude Era and for me one of the best matches of all time, especially for the WWE Title. A very deserved five star match.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Saw people debating Punk vs Jericho.... Punk vs Jericho ER was 2x the match that their WM 28 match was. I found their WM 28 far too slow in the beginning, only picking up at the end, and it was only a *** 1/2 match for me, the WM 28 match. I got Punk/Jericho ER at **** 1/2. Great action, faster paced, great spots, better ending to me than the WM 28 match(Jericho tapping at Mania was pretty weak to me)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> *Triple H vs. Cactus Jack*​
> What a match this is, one of my favourites of all time. I watched this match live and afterwards really thought again by Triple H, I looked at him differently after this match and after this feud. He is an absolute monster of a worker and boy he's one tough son of a bitch.
> 
> One of the best matches of the Attitude Era and for me one of the best matches of all time, especially for the WWE Title. A very deserved five star match.


Yeah this is one of my all-time favorites. Triple H's year 2000 is matched by very, very few.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't think I'd have a problem with anyone giving the '05 Chamber the full five stars. Such an amazing match.

Cactus/Trips OWNS too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Jericho at WM had wonderful storytelling and awesome sequences that put it on a whole other level to ER for me. Crowd sucked at ER for the match too imo. They only kinda cared about Punk when he was about to do something big. Match was dull too with them just throwing together some weapon spots here and there to make it interesting. Plus it dragged on towards the end .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> I don't think I'd have a problem with anyone giving the '05 Chamber the full five stars. Such an amazing match.


This match was awesome. I loved how into Trips the crowd was, too.

TEN TIMES THE KING~!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NYR 05 Chamber is awesome, best ever imo. At the time I didn't like that HHH lost the title via it being vacated in the triple threat, then was the guy to win it back, but the story going into that match with Batista, then leading up to WM was all awesome and make his title win something that needed to happen.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Jack, Rumble just might be my GOAT match ever ever ever lol. Apart from the table not breaking, it's perfect.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

My Blu-Ray of Extreme Rules came today so thought I'd see how it measured up on a rewatch compared to when I first seen it and it's still a great event.

*Extreme Rules 2012*

Falls Count Anywhere - Randy Orton vs. Kane - ***1/4
Brodus Clay vs. Dolph Ziggler - *
Tables Match - Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes - *1/4
2/3 Falls - Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - ****
Ryback vs. Jobbers - DUD
Chicago Street Fight - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****
Nikki Bella vs. Layla - *
Extreme Rules - Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - ****1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Trips/Jack, Rumble just might be my GOAT match ever ever ever lol. Apart from the table not breaking, it's perfect.


Not even their fault. Was probably the fucking Orton table from last summer as a child.

Favorite part of the NYR '05 match is when Benoit and Jericho both have the submissions on Trips and Batista is foaming at the mouth to get in there and then just wrecks everyone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton Vs The Table was one of the best feuds of the year. Christian just got in the way.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still think I like the original 2002 Chamber match the most of all the chamber matches, but that's likely because of HBK's emotional win.

'05 is up there, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Orton Vs The Table was one of the best feuds of the year. Christian just got in the way.


The time his leg slipped into the hole where the monitor goes was the climax of that feud. Huge win for table.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was surprised that Orton put the table over so many times.

02 chamber is great, but I kinda get bored when it gets down to HHH/Jericho/HBK lol. Plus HBK's shit brown attire and weird hair style knocks a few points off it :side: .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The table works for HHH. Trips told him to bury Orton.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not sure what he was thinking with that haircut. Might've still been having COKE relapses.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember reading in HBK's book that he hated that match because of his haircut/attire. I think he had a story why he had to wear the brown ones.

HBK needs to do one coked up promo again plz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Another reason I hate religion; it ruined HBK's character!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah DX w/a born again Shawn just never did much for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I love the 2005 Chamber match, everything about it from the line-up to the match quality, except HHH winning it. It might have to do with the fact I've been going back to watch the previous years and at that point, HHH rarely loses ever and until Goldberg, I don't know if he lost any matches in 2003 (save for meaningless tag matches)

As for religion, it ruined HBK's character? But it saved his life and let us have 8 more years of an awesome career with classic matches!


----------



## Felpent (Jun 11, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I love the 2005 Chamber match, everything about it from the line-up to the match quality, except HHH winning it. It might have to do with the fact I've been going back to watch the previous years and at that point, *HHH rarely loses ever and until Goldberg, I don't know if he lost any matches in 2003 (save for meaningless tag matches)*
> 
> As for religion, it ruined HBK's character? But it saved his life and let us have 8 more years of an awesome career with classic matches!


I remember 2003, HHH never won clean even. Always had evolution interfere, mostly flair. Before Goldberg feud, it was mostly WCW rejects Steiner, Booker and Nash. So it made sense imo.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Yeah I got no problems with HBK's religion either, it made him a more grounded person I got no issue with it. Continuing with my 2005 PPV Main Events...

*Quick Thoughts: JBL/Show was meh, Batista/HHH was yay and Batista/HHH was even better.*

*JBL vs. Big Show- Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match (WWE Heavyweight Championship)
WWE No Way Out ‘05*

-The first half dragged and their constant ignoring the door pissed me off, made even worse when The Cabinet interfered with bolt cutters and ignored the door. They hit a few big spots like a Big Show Powerbomb (which got RVD chants), and the clothesline from hell countered into the chokeslam. The biggest spot came when Show top rope chokeslamed JBL through the ring. Big Show breaks the chain off the door and leaves and procrastinates so that JBL can crawl out from under the ring and get the win, wasn’t a big fan of that finish but they needed a copout I guess. This was a decent big man match that would’ve been much better without the stip and crappy first half. I’ll give Big Show credit for his facial expressions during and after the match. Batista showing up on a Smackdown PPV was epic.
__________
*Triple H vs. Dave Batista (World Heavyweight Championship)
WWE Wrestlemania 21*

-One of my all time favorite buildups to a WM and an equally great match. 7 Years later and the entrances alone still gives me goosebumps. I loved the dynamics that each man played in this match, Dave staying true to the power game since he doesn’t have the experience while Triple H uses his ring savvy to outwit Batista. Triple H did a great job of dictating the pace of the match so that Batista comeback would be bigger down the stretch. Batista knocked the fuck out of HHH with one of the clotheslines in the corner at one point and the finish was absolutely excellent. This may not be the greatest match ever but both guys hauled ass and put on a quality Mania main event and when Big Dave won you knew a superstar was born that night.
___________
*Dave Batista vs. Triple H (World Heavyweight Championship)
WWE Backlash ‘05*

-This was a really good rematch for the strap. Now here I really liked how the dynamics of the match was built around whether or not HHH could hit the Pedigree on Big Dave, the one move he couldn’t hit on him at Mania. In this match they worked at a much quicker pace and a lot more back and forth with a good amount of high impact moves. Mike Chioda’s selling was on point and the finishing stretch was well done allowing HHH to remain strong while keeping the belt on Batista to set up their later HIAC. Overall, I’d probably say that this match is a little better than their Mania match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I didn't find the H/Batista matches (aside from HIAC, which was amazing) to be all that great at the time. Haven't seen them since but I remember being pretty disappointed. Found Batista to still be pretty green.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like that barbed wire steel cage match. The first half was slow but builds up into the unique stipulation with not only a cage around them, but also barbed wire surrounding it, making an escape harder (despite the door being right there). I also liked the ending which I found pretty creative and one that played to the "JBL is a champion that does anything to keep his title" thing since most of his title defenses were unclean. Cena and specially Batista appearing post-match was rather random, though.



Felpent said:


> I remember 2003, HHH never won clean even. Always had evolution interfere, mostly flair. Before Goldberg feud, it was mostly WCW rejects Steiner, Booker and Nash. So it made sense imo.


Yeah, but he always was the winner of the feuds in some way. Those names you named, he beat them all clean at some point and he should have put over Booker IMO.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I like that barbed wire steel cage match. The first half was slow but builds up into the unique stipulation with not only a cage around them, but also barbed wire surrounding it, making an escape harder (despite the door being right there). I also liked the ending which I found pretty creative and one that played to the "JBL is a champion that does anything to keep his title" thing since most of his title defenses were unclean. Cena and specially Batista appearing post-match was rather random, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but he always was the winner of the feuds in some way. Those names you named, he beat them all clean at some point and he should have put over Booker IMO.


I think the Batista part came from WWE teasing Batista choosing JBL to face instead of Triple H. So to have him come out sort of made sense.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Like I said JBL/Show was decent for me but the first half and them conveniently ignoring the door really bought it down. I can forgive the finish no doubt because as you said Choke2Death it was creative and I personally understood why they did it. I just think that if they didn't have the match stip, the first half would've been so much better.

Brye is right in that they were teasing Batista defecting over to Smackdown to challenge JBL for the WWE Title so they had a mini feud on Smackdown while Cena won a #1 Contender's Match against Angle I think that same night. This was back when the draft was in full effect so seeing guys on opposite brands was a rarity.

Batista/HHH From WM21 like I said was a solid Mania match, but not memorable. Meanwhile, the rematch at Backlash was most definitely better in match quality and better worked which is why I gave that one the nod over the Mania match. I can understand though if those matches weren't everyones cup of tea, but from a biased standpoint moreso the Mania match than the much better Backlash one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

But hadn't Batista already decided to fight HHH at Mania at that point? Because that's the only way to make sense out of Cena/Angle having a #1 Contender match for JBL's title. I have not reached 2005 yet, so maybe I'll understand it better when I get there. That sound like a real interesting year, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> But hadn't Batista already decided to fight HHH at Mania at that point? Because that's the only way to make sense out of Cena/Angle having a #1 Contender match for JBL's title. I have not reached 2005 yet, so maybe I'll understand it better when I get there. That sound like a real interesting year, though.


I'm not sure, tbh. For some reason I feel like the limo nearly running down Batista thing had happened on Raw or SD the week before No Way Out which was Trips' ploy to trick Batista. And then I feel like either the Raw after NWO or the next week Batista had the contract signing where he turned.

That was such a well done storyline.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Yep Brye pretty much has it down.

Basically after Batista won the Rumble Triple H wanted Batista to go to smackdown and win the WWE Championship with the notion that Evolution will rule both brands, he didn't want Batista to choose him but Batista continued to "evaluate his options". JBL cut a promo if I remember about Batista which Triple H used as leverage to set Batista up with the whole limo thing using an imitation of JBL's limo, Batista went to Smackdown and destroyed JBL's limo then attacked him again at NWO. The RAW after the PPV was the contract signing in which Batista found out that Triple H had set him up and from there is history.

Now If I remember Theodore Long had arranged a #1 Contender's tournament to crown someone to face JBL just in case Batista didn't choose Smackdown, if he did it would've been a Triple Threat at WM21. Of course, Cena ended up winning that night and went on to face JBL at Mania. Can't remember all the details but it mostly among those lines.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : The List (****)*

21. BL 00 vs The Rock
22. WM 22 vs John Cena
23. SS 98 vs The Rock
24. WM 17 vs The Undertaker
25. BL 06 vs Edge vs John Cena
26. NM 08 vs Jeff Hardy
27. NOC 11 vs CM Punk
28. SS 04 Raw Elimination Tag
29. WM XIX vs Booker T
30. IYH 16 vs Mankind
31. NOC 08 vs John Cena
32. KOTR 97 vs Mankind
33. NYR 06 vs Big Show
34. BL 01 W/SCSA vs The Brothers of Destruction
35. SS 09 DX vs Legacy
36. WM 00 vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley
37. SS 97 vs Mankind
38. NWO 09 SD Elimination Chamber
39. SS 09 vs John Cena vs Shawn Michaels
40. ONO 97 vs Dude Love
41. IYH 28 vs Xpac
42. UNF 02 vs Rob Van Dam
43. BB 04 vs Shawn Michaels
44. ARM 00 HIAC

Some REALLY controversial picks here for a lot of people (BL 01 Tag, vs Punk , vs HBK HIAC, all the Foley matches) , if you disagree with all of my choices like most people will probably do, feel free to tell me about it. Thought these matches were probably the sleeper matches of HHH's PPV tenure in the WWE : IYH 28 vs X-Pac (Pac's best PPV singles bout, and the birth of "The Game" persona on PPV), NYR 06 vs Big Show (Psychology bitches, the cerebral assassin is at his finest when he's working an injured body part) , and of course the various matches with Foley. When I post the top 20, I'm going to take in all of the ratings and calculate who Hunter's 5 best opponents of all time are, and I'm pretty sure you can guess just by looking at my list and looking at what ISN'T on there who's going to be number one.

Love the Summerslam Ladder match with Rocky ALMOST as much as the Backlash match, although I believe neither of them even come close to touching their best contest. Every single match on the list from 26-21 could be bumped up a quarter of a star depending on how I feel when I watch it, but I just have them there for now. 

PS: Why doesn't everybody love the 2 Man Power Trip vs BOD ? What the hell is wrong with you guys ?!?!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

You have Cena/Trips from WM 22 over Cena/Trips from NOC '08? I'd be interested in an explanation for that. 

I'm a huge, huge fan of the '08 one. Fuck, Raw one from late '09 is epic too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm in absolute LOVE with Hunter's matches with Cena. The late 09 match vs Cena is an easy **** from me, and could fall anywhere from best in the series to worst in the series, I just need to rewatch again to make sure. I can't really give you too many specific reasons as to why I loved the Wrestlemania match more, I just felt that it had all the makings of a big title fight. It might have something to do with the fact that I prefer Hunter much more as a heel than I do a face, so it was cool to see him as a semi-tweener that night in Chicago. Here we have somebody who JR claims "doesn't give a damn about the fans" , but near the end he begins pandering towards them and feeding off of their energy. That story dynamic alone makes me want to bump it to **** 1/4, but I'm cool having it where it is at number 22.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The atmosphere for WM22 was awesome, but I still can't stand watching that finish. To this day it's the one match oh which I absolutely hate the ending. I know Cena winning was better in the long run, but it still bugs the shit out of me. NOC 08 was awesome, and a much better match. I think WM22 is around ***1/2, and NOC was somewhere around **** or ****1/4. I don't remember the Raw one from 09 at all.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I'm in absolute LOVE with Hunter's matches with Cena. The late 09 match vs Cena is an easy **** from me, and could fall anywhere from best in the series to worst in the series, I just need to rewatch again to make sure. I can't really give you too many specific reasons as to why I loved the Wrestlemania match more, I just felt that it had all the makings of a big title fight. It might have something to do with the fact that I prefer Hunter much more as a heel than I do a face, so it was cool to see him as a semi-tweener that night in Chicago. Here we have somebody who JR claims "doesn't give a damn about the fans" , but near the end he begins pandering towards them and feeding off of their energy. That story dynamic alone makes me want to bump it to **** 1/4, but I'm cool having it where it is at number 22.


Fair enough.  Glad to see you high on the Raw '09 match as well. One of few reasons I have the Raw '09 set along with the Orton/Trips LMS III.



The Lady Killer said:


> The atmosphere for WM22 was awesome, but I still can't stand watching that finish. To this day it's the one match oh which I absolutely hate the ending. I know Cena winning was better in the long run, but it still bugs the shit out of me. NOC 08 was awesome, and a much better match. I think WM22 is around ***1/2, and NOC was somewhere around **** or ****1/4. I don't remember the Raw one from 09 at all.


Crowd was epic for WM 22, totally agree with that. If it refreshes your memory at all, it was right before Bragging Rights with the Cena/Orton iron man match. The idea being that it very well could be Cena's last Raw match because if he lost to Orton he had to leave Raw.


----------



## HellFirenBrimstone (Jun 29, 2012)

just brought summerslam and survivor series 2002 the mick foley dvd and wwe: the legacy of stone cold steve austin.....just wondering what else you guys think of these dvds/shows......and i'm looking for some other good dvds from anything pre 2006 (not too crazy about this generation of wrestling) any suggestions would be appreciated thanks


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Cena/Hunter @ 'Mania 22 is twice the match Cena/Hunter from NOC 2008 is.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

What about the DX/Rated RKO tag match?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It'll be up there soon  I'm very...VERRRYYY high on it and I believe that it's Hunter's second greatest tag match ever. Coincidentally, what I believe is his best tag....Is another quad tearing match


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/HHH's NOC>>>>>>>WM22. Their Raw match in 09 before BR was ***3/4-**** for me and between those two. 



> 21. BL 00 vs The Rock
> *22. WM 22 vs John Cena*
> 23. SS 98 vs The Rock
> 24. WM 17 vs The Undertaker
> ...


Bold are ones I don't necessarily agree with. A lot of them though are at least ***1/2 for me, with off the top of my head only the Punk match dipping to ***.

Still looking forward to your next batch of matches. And what an odd coincidence two of HHH's best tag matches are quad tears. I have the NYR07 tag at **** and the Raw tag in 01 against Benoit and Jericho at ****1/4.

Edit: Underlined matches are matches I have at higher than ****.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm a huge fan of Trips/Edge/Batista/Snitsky vs Orton/Benoit/Jericho/Maven from SS '04. Don't really know why but I always love watching it. The Pedigree reversal into the RKO looks so nice too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : The List (20-11)*

***** 1/2 (Not the cutoff, one left in the top 10)*
11. JD 00 vs The Rock
12. SS 02 Elimination Chamber
13. NWO 00 vs Cactus Jack

***** 1/4*
14. SS 05 vs Ric Flair
15. NYR 07 DX vs Rated RKO
16. TT 05 vs Ric Flair
17. NM 07 vs Randy Orton
18. NM 99 vs Stone Cold Steve Austin
19. NWO 08 Raw Elimination Chamber
20. NM 00 vs Chris Benoit

Disagreements, agreements, controversial selections ? Let me know.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

14. SS 05 vs Ric Flair
15. NYR 07 DX vs Rated RKO
18. NM 99 vs Stone Cold Steve Austin
20. NM 00 vs Chris Benoit

Wouldn't put these anywhere near HHH's top 20 PPV matches. Thought TT match with Flair was FAR better than the LMS. Not a fan of the tag match at all, think the Austin match is kinda trash, and the Benoit match didn't hold up very well at all on last watch .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *Triple H PPV Matches : The List (20-11)*
> 
> ***** 1/2 (Not the cutoff, one left in the top 10)*
> 11. JD 00 vs The Rock- ****1/4
> ...


I disagree with everything except the SVS 02 EC. 

Put my ratings next to each of them. They aren't way off from yours or anything. Not sure what the order would be. Out of the 4 star matches, the Flair TT match would be number 1, and ****1/4 the JD00 Ironman match would be number 1 (probably). These aren't all the matches I have at **** and ****1/4 for him though.

For ****1/2 HHH matches, off the top of my head (in no order):

1) vs. Rock BL00
2) SVS 02
3) vs. Austin NWO 01 (believe I had this at ****1/4 before. Decided to bump it up on last watch).
4) vs. HBK Summerslam 02
5) vs. Batista Vengeance 05 HIAC
6) vs. Jericho LMS FL00
7) vs. Benoit vs. HBK WM20

For ****3/4... don't think I have any HHH matches at that rating. 

And his one ***** match is with Foley at the RR.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

That Austin match is so confusing (No Mercy 1999). It's Austin's typical brawl vs. Hunter's cerebral style and it didn't mesh at all. I'd go *** max on that.


----------



## N-destroy (Jul 19, 2012)

Obis said:


> 1) vs. Rock BL00
> 2) SVS 02
> 3) vs. Austin NWO 01 (believe I had this at ****1/4 before. Decided to bump it up on last watch).
> 4) vs. HBK Summerslam 02
> ...


All of those matches are easy ****3/4 - ***** classics. 

How do you rate HHH/Taker matches the last two mania?




Razor King said:


> That Austin match is so confusing (No Mercy 1999). It's Austin's typical brawl vs. Hunter's cerebral style and it didn't mesh at all. I'd go *** max on that.


Yup, No mercy 99 was pretty sloppy work, especially from austin. Not a bad match though. I have it at ***1/2.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just caught this forgotten triple threat match featuring three of the greatest a couple of days ago.






It's a crime Benoit and Undertaker never got a real program together. Would have made an excellent Wrestlemania match in 2003 or 2006. LOL @ SuperTaker lasting a minute in a submission combo of a Crossface and Ankle Lock while Stone Cold tapped out to the Crossface/Walls of Jericho combo in an instant.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : The List (10-6)*

***** 1/2*

10. BL 04 vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit
9. Wrestlemania XXVIII vs The Undertaker HIAC

Love, love, LOVE these matches. Both are in the running for MOTY for their respective years imo, it's just that I believe that the HIAC is SLIGHTLY better due to the big time atmosphere and superior storytelling compared to the BL match. However, even though I do believe that Punk-Bryan from Over The Limit is the match of the year, I think this HIAC will go down in HISTORY as the best of the year (if that makes any sense).

***** 3/4*

8. NYR 05 Elimination Chamber
7. VEN 05 vs Batista
6. WM XXVII vs The Undertaker

Listen, I understand that I might be the only person in the entire universe who prefers the WM XXVII no holds barred match over the WM XXVIII end of an era HIAC match, I know that. However, I have my reasons. I just believe that while some might look at the Wrestlemania XXVII match as a glorified finisher fest with too many rest spots, I believe that that is what the match was supposed to do to get across it's story. Both men know that to take the other out, they need to skip the little things and just drop BOMBS on one another, and it works down to a tee. I can understand why it would bother some people, but obviously I'm enamored with it to have it that high on my list.

The 2005 matches speak for themselves. Both are in a dead heat for my 2005 MOTY. The HIAC match is one of the most intense matches that I've ever seen, while both have some of the most dramatic moments ever on WWE PPV. I literally had no clue where they were going with either of these matches, and that made it more exciting for me. You has the near perfect mix of technical wrestling and intensity in the EC, whilst you had the PERFECT blow off match with the HIAC. I love them both, though the HIAC gets the slight nod from me as the 2005 MOTY.

Thoughts ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Storytelling, brutality, emotion, and 'epicness' in the End of an Era match all trump the Last Outlaw match. What I will give WM27 over WM28 is the pacing in the beginning of the match and the big near fall moment is better. Both are absolute classics though.

WM27: **** 1/2
WM28: **** 3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

With both those Undertaker WM matches not in the top 5, no idea other than Cactus RR 00 match what is gonna make your list lol. For me personally those 3 matches are HHH's absolute best with not much coming close to them .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Pretty sure Hunter/Michaels from SummerSlam will be in his Top 5. Probably Austin/Hunter 3SOH too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Both matches suck though .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

> All of those matches are easy ****3/4 - ***** classics.
> 
> How do you rate HHH/Taker matches the last two mania?


I have no problem with people putting any of those matches at ****3/4-*****, I just don't. Still all classics though.

As for your question, here it is:

Taker/HHH WM27- ***1/2
Taker/HHH WM28- ****

Honestly I tried watching Taker/HHH WM27 some time ago, and I just couldn't sit through it again. The storytelling, while good, is trumped by the storytelling in WM28 and honestly that match just makes WM27's seem like nothing. Personally I never thought WM27's storytelling was as great as others made it out, though it's still some very good stuff. The only part of the match I could watch over and over again is the tombstone from HHH to Taker and the kickout with the crowd reaction. JR's commentary, the crowd, everything was perfect in that moment. Besides that though the match honestly just isn't fun to sit through anymore. I never had a high opinion on it even when everyone was calling it a ***** classic right after it happened, but now... meh.

WM28 was the perfect end to the Taker/HBK/HHH arc and did a far superior job in the storytelling department. I think it lacks in all the departments it did the year prior, but not as much (pacing, wrestling/action), but where it excelled, it did better. Now I don't think it's an all-time classic like many others do, but it's an awesome match. I don't think I'd have it in HHH's top 10, and I certainly don't have it in Taker's top 10, but it's what storytelling in wrestling is all about.

Edit: In additions to the matches stated above, pretty sure Benoit/HHH/HBK WM20 will be in his top 5.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Both matches suck though .


THANK YOU.

Summerslam is better than NWO 2001 but only by a small distance and its in no way a compliment to the Summerslam match, just that the NWO match with Austin is one of the most pitifully worked matches I've ever seen. Amazing to see how they butchered it on almost every conceivable level, the only good thing I can say about it is the finish perfectly leads into Austin's breakdown at Wrestlemania and forces him to question whether he's still at the peak of his game.

Guessing the Austin/HHH v Benoit/Jericho tag will be in the top 5 as well as the Cactus Jack Royal Rumble match and probably the Jericho Last Man Standing match from Fully Loaded, unless that one has already been.

EDIT: unless I've overlooked it I haven't seen the Wrestlemania 20 WHC title match listed, and assuming Summerslam 2002, No Way Out 2001, Power Trip/Canadian Violence Raw tag and the Cactus Jack Royal Rumble match are all present that would leave the Mania match competing with the Jericho LMS match, unless either one have already come up and I've skimmed over both.

Personally I think the Taboo Tuesday Steel Cage match is far too low, and the HIAC vs Batista is better than either Wrestlemania match against Taker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : The List (5-3)*

5. vs Stone Cold Steve Austin NWO 01
4. vs Shawn Michaels SS 02
3. vs Chris Jericho FL 00

I know practically everybody hates the NWO 01 3SOH match, but I think it's potentially the greatest blowoff match to a great feud ever. The intensity and the drama really did it for me, I believe it was just a knockout-dragout fight that was epic all the way. The Michaels match will have it's detractors as well, but it's one of those matches that just gives me chills every time I see it. The back work by HHH is fucking awesome and he looks like a cynical bastard with just the way he takes this beaten down "has been" apart. Every time that I watch it , it gets better and better from a storytelling standpoint to me, and although it isn't even in HBK's top 5 for me (vs Taker X3 , WM XX , Mind Games) , it's still a downright fucking awesome match that I adore to this day, and my MOTY for 2002. 

The Jericho match at Fully Loaded 2000 is what I would call the greatest match of all time in the career of Chris Jericho, and the greatest last man standing match of all time by a fair margin. This match was almost a SQUASH, but it's executed so excellently that any master of psychology would be willing to slap a ***** rating or an A++ on this. The ribwork is fantastic, and we're all waiting for Jericho to get back at the chiseled game, but he just can't seem to do it in the end. One of the top 10-15 WWE matches EVER by my estimation, I just adore this match with all of my heart as it has the storytelling and the psychology as well as smart weapon use to carry it to a perfect rating.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho LMS is definitely worthy of HHH's top 5. Off my head, I'd go:

5. Vs Rock JD 2000/Vs HBK Vs Benoit WM 20 (can't decide between the two)
4. Vs Jericho FL 2000
3. Vs Cactus Jack RR 2000
2. Vs The Undertaker WM 27
1. Vs The Undertaker WM 28


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Wow did I see people seriously say HHH/HBK Summerslam 2002 and Austin/HHH No Way Out sucks? 

First Angle sucks as a wrestler, and this? Yeah...... okay..... lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Like Kurt Angle's match structuring, those 2 matches MAKE NO SENSE .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH's top 5 PPV matches:

1) vs. Foley RR00
2) vs. Rock BL00
3) vs. Batista Vengeance 05
4) vs. Jericho FL00
5) vs. HBK SS02


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Like Kurt Angle's match structuring, those 2 matches MAKE NO SENSE .


SPOTZZZZ!!!! > Sykologiiii!!!!! 

I like a little bit of both.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

See I don't even think there's that much intensity or hate in the Austin match, especially that dreadful opening fall which just reduces the match's potential right from the off. Its not worked nearly as frantic and chaotic as this sort of match should be, had HHH been portrayed as a chickenshit looking to retain a title or just claim a win over Austin it might have worked...but we were expected to believe he hated Austin just as much and was set about beating him to a bloody mess. Seeing them work something that resembled a #1 contender's match with some haphazard selling from Austin and bi-polar bodypart work from HHH was just incredibly stange, especially when you watch brawls from Mid South and Memphis and slowly understand how to work a brawl that operates on pure hatred between both competitors.

The drab and tame opening fall then means they have to amp up the violence, or they risk losing the crowd and therefore before you know it there's an insane amount of weapon use and big spots that should have been saved for the closing fall because they're desperately now trying to get across 'THE HATE' and its just not working. By the final fall you've got steel chair shots to the head being sold like a bodyslam and the crowd is noticeably quiet, the pacing was just all off and they left themselves too much to do in that second fall and shot their load in terms of big spots and weapons.

I understand why its popular because the storyline despite reaching absurd levels by Survivor Series was engrossing and pitted two of the biggest stars in the company in a mega blowoff match. However if you go and watch even the 15th best Jerry Lawler brawl from the 80s you can't help but see how tame and ineffective this match is by comparison. Everything about it was a mess and it just goes to show that apart from a few select matches, the whole choreographed and WWE style spectacle very rarely leads to great hate filled brawls.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Jericho LMS match however is HHH's best performance, and the best LMS in company history. Rather than having a bunch of telegraphed spots and repetitive referee counts, HHH just methodically weakens Jericho throughout and targets one specific part of the body to keep him grounded and be unable to answer the ten count, it perfectly fit HHH's character and Jericho does an excellent job in working from the bottom and making his comeback the major focus of the match. I also adored how a lot of the time the referee would only begin counting when both men were down, rather than having a heel/face just stand there and let their opponent be counted down both men just tried to murder each other throughout and more often than not this led to both men being incapacitated and having to answer the count. The finish is also pitch perfect, HHH gets up just in time to make you hate him and feel like the luckiest SOB in the arena, and then promptly collapses to further rile the crowd up as they realise for all intensive purposes he shouldn't have been able to get up and answer the count.

Royal Rumble 2000 is his best match, and the LMS his career performance for me.


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Like Kurt Angle's match structuring, those 2 matches MAKE NO SENSE .


Both of those matches were entertaining, intense, had great psychology... most of Angle's matches weren't psychology fests, but were entertaining and classic in their own right....

I can't help but wonder what matches you feel are classics if those two "make no sense"


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I still have Cena/Umaga as the best LMS ever, with Jericho/HHH a very close second.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Both the Austin and HBK matches were a mess imo. Its like they didn't know what kind of match they wanted to wrestle. Is it about hate and revenge? Winning? Showing off? They kinda tried to do different things during the same match and none of it fit together or made sense and it ended up just... a mess lol. I like the HBK match more because despite its problems I still marked the fuck out for HBK's return and victory .


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obis said:


> I still have Cena/Umaga as the best LMS ever, with Jericho/HHH a very close second.


I agree. (Y)

I know someone who won't though. :side:


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> I agree. (Y)
> 
> I know someone who won't though. :side:


*waves*

Damn, not a great night for me in here. Everyone loving matches I find many, MANY faults with .


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Entertaining doesn't make for an automatically great match. Austin and HHH wrestled a completely tameless and tepid opening fall, complete with moves and sequences which resembled your average WWF match at the time. It should have been a wild and uncontrolled brawl, rather than tame and ineffective bodypart work. Personally I think the 2/3 falls format killed it tbh, since it forced them to basically plot around each fall and meant that they had to overcompensate in the second fall for the lackluster opening, which is a shame because many Lucha brawls have occurred under a 2/3 falls format and worked perfectly.

HHH/HBK is just hurt by Michaels being bi-polar, half the time they're trying to convince me he's past his prime and giving me cause for concern to see if he can win the match, the next minute he's a bloody psycho trying to murder HHH. I've said it before on here when talking about the match, but they essentially worked the beginning of a feud and a feud ender into two halfs of a match. If the whole match had been about HBK making his comeback the sole focus of the match and winning only for HHH to then do the post-match assault, then I most likely would have enjoyed it more. And of course them then having some blood soaked epic a few months later with Michaels now being entirely focused on hurting HHH, rather than trying to prove he still had it in him could have made for a good match (though Bad Blood 2004 doesn't give me great confidence that a drawn out bloody 'EPIC' between them would have been up to much).

I can see why both matches have their fans, but both are incredibly flawed in their execution. And as for Angle, he doesn't necessarily 'suck', but rather he alienates a certain section of fans who watch matches for performances, character work and smartly worked matches. I have no qualms with the popularity he receives for his work, even if I think a lot of his incredibly flawed. What infuriates me more is that people cannot process the idea he may have faults and issues which divide wrestling fans, you don't have to agree with these so called issues but to try and pretend they don't exist serves little purpose on a discussion forum.

If people love Angle, super. Good for you because he's obviously meeting your requirements for a 'good match', for others however will vary as what impresses most can irritate others, and therefore there's always going to be debates about wrestlers whether they be Flair, Austin, Funk, Lawler, Eddie, Mysterio, Cena, Angle, HHH, HBK etc because no two fans are the same.




KingCal said:


> *waves*
> 
> Damn, not a great night for me in here. *Everyone* loving matches I find many, MANY faults with .


Hi.


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Both the Austin and HBK matches were a mess imo. Its like they didn't know what kind of match they wanted to wrestle. Is it about hate and revenge? Winning? Showing off? They kinda tried to do different things during the same match and none of it fit together or made sense and it ended up just... a mess lol. I like the HBK match more because despite its problems I still marked the fuck out for HBK's return and victory .


I'm confused on how people judge matches. I'm guessing guys are looking too deep into it maybe?

The HBK/HHH match started from the concept of the friend who had rose to the top once the guy who "carried" him left the company due to injury. When HBK returns, he was there to be support for HHH, but HHH didnt want HBK to take his spotlight, thus giving him the pedigree and taking him out. HBK's road back to Summerslam was about gaining his revenge against HHH for taking him out. The biggest question in that match was whether or not HBK could keep up with HHH, since he'd been 4 years removed from the ring. When you go into the fact that it was "unsanctioned" and a street fight, it further drives home the point of the fact that this would be a brutal brawl, bloody, etc..... HBK's showing off in the match? Just a reminder that's he still as good as he was before, thus answering the question of whether he still had it. Him winning proved that he was still as good as he always was, and he's gained revenge over the friend who was, in many ways, still jealous of him. HHH's attack at the end just provided HHH with the last laugh. The action in this match was fast paced, to the point, the psychology was great, and I can't see how someone says this match makes no sense.

Austin/HHH is a different story though. The whole idea was just a blowoff to the feud. It was designed to show the brutal nature of this feud and the ending to a year plus long rivalry. The 3 Stages of Hell was a match where both guys were supposed to take each other out, make each other pay for the years of hell amongst each other. The match was hard htting


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

blazegod99 said:


> I'm confused on how people judge matches. I'm guessing guys are looking too deep into it maybe?


At the end of the day, it's all personal preference.


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Clique said:


> At the end of the day, it's all personal preference.


I guess that's the case. But I think people are looking far too into wrestling lol. It's more about entertainment and putting the best show possible in this business. I've been a fan for 20 plus years and talked with thousands of wrestling fans, especially through our radio podcast(www.blogtalkradio.com/wrestlingheads) and this is the FIRST place I've ever heard people talk about these particular wrestlers and these matches as being extremely flawed.

Im just curious as to what matches people think AREN'T flawed?


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its not about thinking too deep in the slightest, whilst some people watch purely for the characters and the entertainment others watch for entirely different reasons. People see classic matches from the territory days and see the brilliance in storytelling and simplistic wrestling and then struggle to comprehend how modern day matches have evolved into something entirely different.

Citing flaws in both matches doesn't make them flawed, it just serves to demonstrate the difference in opinion in what people constitute to be a great match. What I enjoy you may well find boring, simplistic, un-entertaining and no matter how much I disagree with you I cannot conclusively illustrate you to be wrong.

The key is to accept these opinions and argue why what we consider flaws you consider to be beneficial to the match, rather than attempting to comprehend how someone can form this particular opinion.

Just my two cents.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H PPV Matches : The List (Top Two)*

2. vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit WM XX
1. vs Cactus Jack RR 00

Need I say more ? Number one is self explanatory, while number 2 is the greatest triple threat match and second greatest main event in Wrestlemania history IMO. RR 00 is Foley's best match , whilst the Wrestlemania triple threat is Benoit's best match with the WWE and a top 5 HBK match. 

This was ALOT of fun to do. So much fun that I wanted to start another project immediately after I finished this one... So I'm going to finally reveal what I've been up to lately : *Ranking every single WWE Championship match in PPV history.* There are currently 232, but I've only got 130 matches to review ( majority are rewatches ) and I've been going CRAZY at this lately. I'm going to figure out alot during this ; I'm also going to rank the title reigns based on match quality at the end as well... This is going to be a BIG one.


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> Citing flaws in both matches doesn't make them flawed, it just serves to demonstrate the difference in opinion in what people constitute to be a great match. What I enjoy you may well find boring, simplistic, un-entertaining and no matter how much I disagree with you I cannot conclusively illustrate you to be wrong.


Yep, personal preference. I appreciate reading posts from Segunda, Cal and others that point out the structure or lack of structure in Kurt Angle match or a multi-man ladder match that I may love to pieces. It would be so boring if we all had the same tastes for every single acclaimed match, especially on the mainstream level. My eyes have been opened to so many other wrestlers and matches because of these posters and while my preferences haven't changed much over the years I will read a good write-up (positive or negative) on a match any day.


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Its not about thinking too deep in the slightest, whilst some people watch purely for the characters and the entertainment others watch for entirely different reasons. People see classic matches from the territory days and see the brilliance in storytelling and simplistic wrestling and then struggle to comprehend how modern day matches have evolved into something entirely different.
> 
> Citing flaws in both matches doesn't make them flawed, it just serves to demonstrate the difference in opinion in what people constitute to be a great match. What I enjoy you may well find boring, simplistic, un-entertaining and no matter how much I disagree with you I cannot conclusively illustrate you to be wrong.
> 
> ...


Your reference to modern day matches... just makes me confused a little bit. I've watched matches from the territory days. I enjoyed a lot of these matches. I can see the difference in a Flair/Race, Flair/Rhodes from a HHH/HBK, Austin/Rock, etc.... and that's where I get confused. 

I like the idea of understanding the psyche of other wrestling fans. I like to look at this business from as many angles as possible. So, that's my reason for asking quite a few times, what matches do you guys consider as not being flawed, just to gain perspective on your opinion. That's the beauty of wrestling and being a fan


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Well what I consider not to be flawed is incredibly broad, do you mean PPV epics? TV matches? Sub ten minute sprints?

There really is no devolution of a good/great match. I'm not saying Kurt Angle needs to wrestle like a carbon copy of Ric Flair, but that doesn't mean he can't take the intrinsic elements of Flair's work (storytelling, build to big spots, adding depth and meaning to sequences/sections of a match) and incorporate them into his own work. When Angle is put against an opponent who won't play by his rules and will impose their own pacing and work to exentuate Angle's strengths the results are usually excellent, see Austin v Angle Summerslam 2001, Angle v Taker Smackdown 2003 and Angle v Taker No Way Out 2006. Not that I'm implying Angle is merely along for the ride in each of those matches, more-so that there's a sense of struggle and intricate details that add to my enjoyment of the match rather than a sprint heavy match with little redeeming qualities.

As far as some of my favourite matches go:

Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio Smackdown 06/23/05 and Great American Bash 2005
Stone Cold Steve Austin v Kurt Angle Summerslam 2001
Bob Backlund v Greg Valentine 1979
Sgt Slaughter v Iron Shiek Boot Camp Match
Chris Benoit v Finlay Smackdown 05/05/06, Judgement Day 2006
Chris Benoit v William Regal Brian Pillman Memorial Show 2000, Velocity 2005, No Mercy 2006
Sting v Vader Superbrawl III Strap Match
WAR GAMES 1992
Dustin Rhodes v Vader 1992 & 1994
Terry Funk v Jerry Lawler NO DQ 1981
Ted Dibiase v Jim Duggan Mid South Coal Miner's Glove on a Pole Tuxedo Steel Cage Match (no match with that name should be as good as it is)
Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat COTC, Chi Town Rumble, Landover and Philadelphia House Shows 1989
Ric Flair v Kerry Von Erich Hawaii (1985?)
Tully Blanchard v Ron Garvin 1986
Ric Flair v Barry Windham 1987
Dick Murdoch v Barry Windham
Cicloncito Ramirez v Damiancito El Guerrero CMLL 1997 & their trios match in October 1997
El Satanico v Gran Cochisse 1984
Atlantis v Blue Panther 1991
El Dandy v ***** Casas 1992
El Dandy v Javier Llanes 1994
John Cena v CM Punk Money In The Bank 2011
Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue 1993 and 1995
Misawa v Kobashi 1/20/97
Kawada v Taue 1991 and 1993
Kawada v Hansen 1993
Hansen v Funk 1983
Funks v Hansen & Brody 1983
Funks v Abdullah and Shiek 1977 and 1979
Kobashi v Honda 2003
Kobashi v Takayama 2004
Lawler v Dundee 1983 and 1985 LLT
Lawler v Mantell 1982 series
Gilert Cestra v Billy Cantazarro 1950-1960
Marty Jones v Fit Finlay 1984 WOS
Steve Grey v Clive Myers 1977
HBK/Mankind Mind Games 1996 (ending aside)
Danielson vMcGuinness Driven, Unified, 6 Year Anniversary Show (2007, 2006, 2008)
Danielson v Strong Vendetta & Supercard of Honour
Finlay v Regal Uncensored 1996
Steamboat v Rude Iron Man Match 1992
Dustin Rhodes v Bunkhouse Buck 1994
Rock n Roll Express v Midnight Express 1990
Southern Boys v Midnight Express 1990

I could go on, I really could. But that should do for now.

That being said I don't see what providing some of my favourite matches (and I haven't even truly scratched the surface there) really indicates, that's not a conclusive set of great matches no matter how hard I recommend them.


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

^^ My whole point is just to see what other wrestling fans consider to be great. That's the whole point of a FORUM is to compare opinions, etc..

I do find it interesting however that you have Cena vs Punk on your list. I thought that match, was quite sloppy, botched, although the atmosphere and storyline carried it


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

And I've seen just about every match on your list except the Lawler matches and a few of the Kawada matches.

However, the same way you guys explain your opinion about other matches having flaws, I think Sting vs Vader at Superbrawl was quite weak as a match. The pacing of that match left a lot to be desired, as well as the ending(Vader winning wasn't a good idea to me)

I will agree that Austin vs Angle at Summerslam 2001 is an amazing match. I just hated the concept of Angle being this unbeatable babyface, but Austin being such a vicious, almost unbeatable heel. It was meant to get Angle over, but the crowd themselves started chanting for Austin at a few times


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

At the end of the day you're fighting a losing battle in trying to comprehend why people find flaws in matches, I understand you're trying to better understand my opinion but realistically you need to spend more time arguing in favour of the match and certain aspects me and Cal have critiqued, rather than trying to question what people look for in a match (not trying to be condescending here btw, just clarifying we're not going to move further along until we start debating key aspects of both matches and give opposing viewpoints as to what was good/bad in both).


The match may have been occasionally sloppy (though I think people exaggerate just how sloppy it actually was) but exection is far less important than storytelling, emotion, pacing, build and character work in a match. You can have a match with flawless execution but if there's nothing to admire outside of that then the match just isn't going to peak beyond a certain level. Punk/Cena had an extraordinary Cena performance as the default heel, and the progression from Cena trying to outwrestle Punk, to Punk trying to wrestle the match of his career to Cena using his experience to control the middle portion of the match and then Punk having to build his comeback and work from the bottom, complete with some terrific near falls and selling from Cena in particular. The moment he questions the referee's call was just pitch perfect storytelling and character progression from him, the frustration and atmosphere was clearly affecting him and he sold that frustration by exhibiting some un-Cena like behaviour, which just added some meaning to what had already been a damn good match.

The atmosphere really helped them in laying out a more old school match which focused on the character dynamic and building the match around certain sequences, but what they delivered was just incredible wrestling by taking the essence of a great match and just adding so many unique and character touches to complete the match. People often like to call Cena a bad seller, but when you consider selling goes beyond limbwork and extends into drawing a crowd into a match and selling a match through your facial expressions and mannerisms, there are few better than Cena in a main event match at doing this. Cena perfectly illustrated when he was out-matched, confident, desperate and even frustrated, and the finish with him ultimately living by the John Cena code after acting contrary to it at key moments in the match just capped off the match.


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> *At the end of the day you're fighting a losing battle in trying to comprehend why people find flaws in matches, I understand you're trying to better understand my opinion but realistically you need to spend more time arguing in favour of the match and certain aspects me and Cal have critiqued, rather than trying to question what people look for in a match (not trying to be condescending here btw, just clarifying we're not going to move further along until we start debating key aspects of both matches and give opposing viewpoints as to what was good/bad in both).*
> 
> 
> The match may have been occasionally sloppy (though I think people exaggerate just how sloppy it actually was) but exection is far less important than storytelling, emotion, pacing, build and character work in a match. You can have a match with flawless execution but if there's nothing to admire outside of that then the match just isn't going to peak beyond a certain level. Punk/Cena had an extraordinary Cena performance as the default heel, and the progression from Cena trying to outwrestle Punk, to Punk trying to wrestle the match of his career to Cena using his experience to control the middle portion of the match and then Punk having to build his comeback and work from the bottom, complete with some terrific near falls and selling from Cena in particular. The moment he questions the referee's call was just pitch perfect storytelling and character progression from him, the frustration and atmosphere was clearly affecting him and he sold that frustration by exhibiting some un-Cena like behaviour, which just added some meaning to what had already been a damn good match.
> ...


The bolded is where you lost me. As a wrestling fan, I actually like to debate, discuss, and engage in conversation with other wrestling fan in regards to matches. As a lifelong fan, it makes me want to go back, watch matches, maybe look for things I may not have noticed before and try to make other fans do the same as well. It's part of the fun. I've given my viewpoints on matches. Every post I've had about a match has my viewpoint. I'm here to compare, discuss, etc, which is what we're doing.

I couldn't understand for one, how your view of Cena/Punk is what you just posted, but you've seen a load of flaws in a match like HHH/HBK, which had more story behind it, more emotion, wasn't sloppy, or botched, and also was built in the vein of a match with superb pacing and etc....

However, I cannot see the hype for Cena's role in this match. The sloppiness took a little bit away from it and while some people say it was an old school match, I disagree. It's a good match, sure, but the crowd, the atmosphere, and the finishers being overused carried the match. The actual match itself did very little in terms of character work, performance(botches and sloppiness do not equal good performance), etc... Of course, this is all relative, but as a wrestling fan, comparing and debating is key.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Debating is fine, but instead of trying to work out whether people think too much about wrestling when watching it (despite me understanding your viewpoint), I'm more used to people just taking everything I've said about the match and then putting their own opinion to counter mine and bring about a discussion. Like I said I can see what you were trying to do, I'm just not used to people taking a 'do people really think this way' approach rather than 'I disagree with *insert critique of match here*'.

Honestly can't fathom how HBK/HHH had more of a story or emotion in the match. Emotion I can see more of an argument for, though again HBK alternating from sympathetic victim to deranged lunatic kind of took away whatever emotion I was meant to be feeling instead of him playing one character. Was I supposed to be looking away in horror, cheering him on valiantly or encouraging him to kill HHH some more?

Story wise HHH/HBK is a jumbled mess, somewhere in the match they abandon the story that HBK is weak and past it and turn it into an attempted Memphis bloodbath with ladders, chairs, trashcans and tables. I appreciate the HHH attack on Raw meant HBK was going to be naturally pissed, but again why focus so much on HBK being outmatched and helpless whilst also trying to work some blood feud angle with them wanting to kill each other. Seems more beneficial to run the whole 'HBK is past it and I'll prove I was never in his shadow' story and then use the post match attack to set up the blood feud element and progression of the feud. Cena/Punk was a clear story of Punk's desire to win the biggest match of his career and cement himself as someone the WWE should have recognised as the best in the business, and in trying to stop this Cena was pushed to breaking point in terms of growing frustrated and putting in the performance necessary to stop Punk. The entire match played off of both characters and centred on Punk's pride and belief in his own ability, against Cena's moral code and his inability to do what was right for business, but what would go against his own morality. Cena dieing by his own sword perfectly closed off this story which dominated numerous sequences and which escalated as the match and tension progressed.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just a week before SummerSlam 2012, I finished watching SummerSlam 2003.

La Resistance/Dudley Boyz - **1/2
Just your typical tag team match with a clever ending where that third man from La Resistance poses as a camera man and hits D-Von with the camera when the ref turns his back.

Undertaker vs A-Train - **1/4
Average at best with a little drama towards the end but it was all pointless in the end. The rematch between Cena and Taker done at the 14th August episode of Smackdown should have been saved for this PPV. It would have given Cena an early boost with the unclean victory where A-Train interfered and then Taker could overcome the train on a random episode of Smackdown for such an underwhelming match. Once again, Cena was left off the card of one of the big four PPVs, much like Wrestlemania 19.

Shane McMahon vs Eric Bischoff - ***
Kind of disappointing for a Shane match where I come in expecting a bunch of memorable spots. Here, Coachman for some reason interferes but then Stone Cold evens it out and they open a can of whoop ass with Shane beating Bischoff after an awesome elbow drop on the table.

Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit vs Tajiri vs Rhyno - ***1/2
Another awesome match between the Smackdown midcarders. They have split their jobs pretty well with Benoit doing the technical stuff, Tajiri being the agile cruiserweight, Eddie doing the cheap heelish stuff and some lucha style moves and Rhyno being the powerhouse. Lots of back-and-forth with many pinfalls that are broken by other participants. Very fast paced and everyone gets to show off their skills while Eddie comes out of this with the title still around his waist.

Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar - ***3/4
Not quite as good as their WM match but another great match nonetheless. It starts off slow but despite the mostly dead crowds, manages to keep the viewer's interest with Brock doing a good job performing as the heel and Angle overcoming the odds and making Lesnar tap to the Ankle Lock.

Kane vs Rob Van Dam - ***1/2
Decent match with both getting in a fair amount of offense to make it even. That said, however, this match misses the intensity Kane has had in his monster run where he has destroying everything in his path since the unmasking. That missed Coast-to-Coast by RVD was also awesome and only could have been that much more brutal had he connected.

Elimination Chamber - ***
Very underwhelming. Ends way too soon for a chamber match and the ending itself is awful. Goldberg is on an awesome run, eliminated everybody, then HHH gets a sledgehammer and with one shot, he eliminates Goldberg just like that. Given a bit more time, this could have been a lot better. But I guess they were saving the HHH/Goldberg fighting for Unforgiven.

Overall: ***1/4 out of ***** (It's kind of mixed stuff with some good matches, mostly from Smackdown, and some disappointing stuff, mainly the chamber match. Still a good SummerSlam but the chamber makes the end result feel a bit more underwhelming.)


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## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

^^ Im quite abrasive in my debates hence how my argument starts. Plus, I can't truly fathom some of the things people say considering the fact that I've never heard these opinions until now. And it's like 10 years after these matches took place. Hence my views.

When you say emotion..... I look at emotion like, how the story plays out, the emotion behind everything that was done in the match. I look at HHH vs HBK, and see HBK as a man who was unsure of himself leading up to Summerslam, once he got out there, he began to get his swagger back, and that happens as the match goes along. Once HBK finds that he still "has it", he begins to go into his quest for revenge and busting HHH open to make him pay for what was done to him. Logically, having a match where HHH just squashed HBK the whole time would be the only way to play up the whole "does Shawn still have it?" bit and that would've sucked IMO. I felt like HBK's match with HHH was the progression of him finding his swagger, regaining it, exacting revenge, and after winning, getting taken out, because he got caught up in the moment, thus falling victim to not being mentally sharp to the game, although being physically sharp.

I will agree with Cena losing due to his own "morals" in the Punk match though. It made an interesting story for the ending.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Add me to the list of people that hate the Austin/Hunter match as well. Shawn/Hunter is alright, pretty decent if you're okay with Michaels' (lack of) selling.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Well, I'm a big Hunter fan so here's my top-20 for the man. My ratings have changed for so many matches, so here's the order:

1. Foley @ Rumble '00
2. Batista @ Vengeance '05
3. Undertaker @ 'Mania XXVI
4. Steve Austin @ No Way Out '01
5. Michaels @ SummerSlam '02
6. vs. Benoit vs. Michaels @ 'Mania XX
7. Rock @ Judgment Day '00
8. Jericho @ Fully Loaded '00
9. Undertaker @ 'Mania XXVIII

10. Flair @ Taboo Tuesday '05
11. Rock @ Backlash '00
12. Jeff @ No Mercy '08
13. Michaels @ Raw (Dec 29, 2003)
14. w/Austin vs. the Chris's @ Raw (May 21, 2001)
15. Orton @ No Mercy '08
16. Cena @ 'Mania 22
17. Foley @ No Way Out '00
18. Flair @ Survivor Series '05
19. vs. Michaels vs. Benoit @ Backlash '04
20. vs. Edge vs. Cena @ Backlash '06


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Initial review of the Top 50 Finishing Moves DVD Set:

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/review-wwe-the-50-greatest-finishing-moves-in-history-dvd/26087/


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Read the past few pages and the argument and I feel meh arguing about the apparent greatness of a match or it's mediocrity. Somebody likes it; the other dislikes it. That pretty much sums it up.

Like for me, Michaels/Jericho from NM '08 is twice the match 'Mania X between Michaels and Ramon was. For the majority, it's the opposite...


----------



## LariatSavage (Aug 10, 2010)

Finally got around to watching The Best of Clash of the Champions. Flair never gets old, Malenko v Ultimo Dragon is probably my sleeper match of the set! 

WCW: Best of Clash of the Champions DVD Full Review


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Razor King said:


> Like for me, Michaels/Jericho from NM '08 is twice the match 'Mania X between Michaels and Ramon was. For the majority, it's the opposite...


And IMO, Benoit/Jericho RR01 trumps them both. So it goes. I never really realised how much wrestling tastes differed when I realised Cal hates like 99% of my favourite matches, lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Razor SS trumps their WM match and all over ladder matches .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I fucking love HBK/Razor from SS '95.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Razor King said:


> Well, I'm a big Hunter fan so here's my top-20 for the man. My ratings have changed for so many matches, so here's the order:
> 
> 1. Foley @ Rumble '00
> 2. Batista @ Vengeance '05
> ...


In bold are corrections for the couple of errors/typos I saw in the dates. 

Overall a very nice list. 

I did a top 5, but I'll go top 20:

(*****)
1) vs. Foley RR00 (MOTY 2000)
(****1/2)
2) vs. Rock BL00 
3) vs. Batista Vengeance 05 
4) vs. Jericho FL00
5) vs. HBK SS02 
6) SVS 02 EC
7) vs. Benoit vs. HBK WM20 (MOTY 2004)
8) vs. Austin NWO01
(****1/4)
9) vs. Rock JD00
10) vs. Jeff Hardy NM08
11) NYR 05 EC
12) w/ Austin vs. Benoit/Jericho Raw 5/21/01 
13) vs HBK 12/29/03
14) vs. Foley NWO 00
15) vs. Benoit vs. HBK BL04
(****)
16) vs. Flair TT05
17) vs. Cena NOC 08
18) vs. Rock SS98
19) vs. Taker WM28
20) vs. Taker WM17

That was tough. lol. 

Got me in the mood for an UNDERTAKER Top 20 though  :

(*****)
1) vs. HBK BB97 (3rd greatest Match of All-Time, MOTY 1997)
2) vs. HBK WM25 (MOTY 2009)
3) vs. Angle NWO06 (MOTY 2006)
(****3/4)
4) vs. Lesnar NM02 (MOTY 2003)
5) vs. Angle SD 03 
6) vs. Edge SS08 (MOTY 2008) 
(****1/2)
7) vs. Rock vs. Angle Vengeance 02
8) vs. Batista WM23 (MOTY 2007)
9) vs. HBK WM26 (MOTY 2010)
10) vs. Bret Hart SS97 
(****1/4)
11) vs. Batista CS08
12) vs. Austin JD01
13) vs. Orton WM21
14) vs. Edge WM24
15) vs. Batista SVS07
16) vs. Orton Armageddon 05
17) vs. Austin FL99 (MOTY 1999)
18) vs. Angle SD06
19) vs. Big Show CS08
(****)
20) vs. Orton SS05

Now I kinda wanna do an HBK top 20... meh, maybe later. 

Edit: Just for comparison between Taker/HHH/HBK...

Taker MOTY's:
-1997 (vs. HBK BB)
-1999 (vs. Austin FL)
-2002 (vs. Lesnar NM)
-2006 (vs. Angle NWO)
-2007 (vs. Batista WM23)
-2008 (vs. Edge SS)
-2009 (vs. HBK WM25)
-2010 (vs. HBK WM26)

HBK's MOTY's:
-1997 (vs. Taker BB)
-2004 (vs. Benoit vs. HHH WM20)
-2005 (vs. Angle WM21)
-2009 (vs. Taker WM25)
-2010 (vs. Taker WM26)

HHH's MOTY's:
-2000 (vs. Foley BB)
-2004 (vs. HBK vs. Benoit WM20)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

KingCal said:


> HBK/Razor SS trumps their WM match and all over ladder matches .


Garbage match. C'mon, Cal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Which Taker match is it on SD 03 with Angle? Is it the one a couple of weeks after SummerSlam? I'm reaching that point in my journey through 2003 right now so I'll be looking forward towards that match. (Angle/Lesnar Ironman is only a couple of weeks away)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Garbage match. C'mon, Cal.


Yeah, right. What the hell do you know? :side:

Top... I dunno, however far I go... Undertaker matches:

1. Vs HBK - Badd Blood 1997 HIAC - *********************** GOAT Match, GOAT HIAC
2. Vs HBK - WrestleMania 26 2010 - ***** GOAT WM
3. Vs HBK - WrestleMania 25 2009 - *****
4. Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 2002 - ***** GOAT Triple Threat (this is a crazy pick, I know, but damn I love this match lol)
5. Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Smackdown 04/09/2003 ****3/4 GOAT SD Match, GOAT WWE TV Match
6. Vs Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ****3/4
7. Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 28 2012 HIAC - ****3/4
8. Vs Kurt Angle - No Way Out 2006 - ****3/4
9. Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 27 - ****3/4
10. Vs Vader Vs Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin - The Final Four 1997 - ****3/4 GOAT Four Way Match

That'll do for now .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are people's thought's on One Night Stand 2008?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> What are people's thought's on One Night Stand 2008?


Singapore Cane match is super fun, Big Show is awesome in it. Nothing else worth watching tbh, though I haven't seen the HBK/Batista stretcher match in a LOOOONG time, and I always hear great things about it.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Michaels in my opinion got so much better later on in his career from 2006-2010 then earlier in his career. The 1997 HIAC aside which is probably one of my top 3 greatest wwe matches of all time. 

See Michaels grasp for storytelling later on in his career is absolutely outstanding. As seen by the matches against taker, his series with jericho, etc.

Michaels learned how to wrestle within himself and placed more emphasis on the story within matches and would only bring out a massive spot like the moonsault against taker at WM 26 when he knew that he had nothing left and had to put it all on the line. Michaels had a better grasp on the little things in a match. His big moves felt much more important in a match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Yeah, right. What the hell do you know? :side:
> 
> Top... I dunno, however far I go... Undertaker matches:
> 
> ...


With a track record like that (Plus countless other awesome matches like the Edge and Orton series/etc) I have a hard time listening to people say Taker is overrated in the ring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Indeed. I could probably do a top 50 and not be under **** for the guy lol. Along with his longevity, GOAT gimmick and underrated mic skills, I have a hard time not having him in my top 10 GOAT list.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Brye said:


> With a track record like that (Plus countless other awesome matches like the Edge and Orton series/etc) I have a hard time listening to people say Taker is overrated in the ring.


I don't know how a person can say taker's overrated in the ring. Best true big man worker of all time in the WWE easily.

His list of matches speaks for itself


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Michaels in my opinion got so much better later on in his career from 2006-2010 then earlier in his career. The 1997 HIAC aside which is probably one of my top 3 greatest wwe matches of all time.
> 
> See Michaels grasp for storytelling later on in his career is absolutely outstanding. As seen by the matches against taker, his series with jericho, etc.
> 
> Michaels learned how to wrestle within himself and placed more emphasis on the story within matches and would only bring out a massive spot like the moonsault against taker at WM 26 when he knew that he had nothing left and had to put it all on the line. Michaels had a better grasp on the little things in a match. His big moves felt much more important in a match.


This is one hundred percent true. Thank you for posting. Before the back injury Shawn Michaels was arguably a Top 10 performer but in his return I believe he solidified his status further as one of the best to ever do it. How he implented storytelling into his big matches with Jericho, Flair, Batista, Orton, Cena, Angle and Undertaker are marvelous to watch. Even with a young Randy Orton in 2003 or a young Chris Masters in 2005 deserves notice.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Singapore Cane match is super fun, Big Show is awesome in it. Nothing else worth watching tbh, though I haven't seen the HBK/Batista stretcher match in a LOOOONG time, and I always hear great things about it.


Thanks mate, don't think ive seen the Egde/Taker match from that PPV either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Thanks mate, don't think ive seen the Egde/Taker match from that PPV either.


It ain't good. Nothing but spots for the sake of spots, and even watching LIVE I was able to accurately predict every single spot before it happened. Only thing I didn't know was who was gonna take the final spot.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

There are indeed some insane spots in that TLC match. The chokeslams on the Edgeheads through tables were good sights and the massive bump Undertaker took was out of this world for his age and physical condition.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I find it impossible to hate on Undertaker. He's just too great with a super-long list of classic matches.

Also, for SD 2003 matches, this one with John Cena is pretty underrated.






PS: Edge/Taker at ONS 08 is my favorite match between the two. But one question regarding that match, weren't chair shots to the head banned by that point? Edge hits Taker with a couple of them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been a while since I saw that SD match. Does A-Train get involved at the end by any chance? Watched their Venegance match not too long ago, really great stuff. Undertaker had some super fun matches on SD that year. Vs Rey after WM, Vs Angle, some handicap/tag matches against Show & Lesnar etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> It ain't good. Nothing but spots for the sake of spots, and even watching LIVE I was able to accurately predict every single spot before it happened. Only thing I didn't know was who was gonna take the final spot.


One of , if not, the reason i was thinking of getting it tbh, but just discovered it's on the Ladder Match 2 DVD (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watch the Singapore Cane match online or something. Definitely worth seeing .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I find it impossible to hate on Undertaker. He's just too great with a super-long list of classic matches.
> 
> Also, for SD 2003 matches, this one with John Cena is pretty underrated.
> 
> ...


The Cena/Taker match from Vengeance that year is really good too. (Y)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I like the 06/24/2004 match they had on Smackdown before The Great American Bash. Undertaker & Cena have solid chemistry together and I see potential for an epic match if they were ever to have one at WrestleMania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Been a while since I saw that SD match. Does A-Train get involved at the end by any chance? Watched their Venegance match not too long ago, really great stuff. Undertaker had some super fun matches on SD that year. Vs Rey after WM, Vs Angle, some handicap/tag matches against Show & Lesnar etc.


Yep. That's the match. Don't know why they couldn't have saved it for SummerSlam instead of having Undertaker squash A-Train.

The match with Rey Mysterio was a bit too short IMO. About 4 minutes it was. And yeah, I just passed the episode where he wins #1 Contender for his match with Angle in the triple threat with Brock & Big Show, that's another great match where he pinned Lesnar. (although most believe that he never did that)


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Just rewatched WrestleMania 26 on my phone on YouTube while in bed. Fuck I'm crazy :lmao

Anyways, looking back on it, it was actually really good bar the Bret/Vince shit. Underrated IMO.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Rey is fucking fantastic for a six minute match.

And Taker/HBK is one of my favorite matches of all time. Don't like Batista/Cena as much as I did my first watch but it's still solid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep. That's the match. Don't know why they couldn't have saved it for SummerSlam instead of having Undertaker squash A-Train.
> 
> The match with Rey Mysterio was a bit too short IMO. About 4 minutes it was. And yeah, I just passed the episode where he wins #1 Contender for his match with Angle in the triple threat with Brock & Big Show, that's another great match where he pinned Lesnar. (although most believe that he never did that)


He never did have a long match with Rey, but I always found them to be super fucking fun matches regardless. All this talk of 03 makes me want to do a SD 03 project, but I need to finish 06 first (Raw and ECW, done SD already ). Just need ONE episode of Raw 06 to continue since my copy absolutely sucks and is totally unwatchable, but there only seems to be the same version floating around online. Looks like I'll have to buy a DVD copy of it.



psx71 said:


> Just rewatched WrestleMania 26 on my phone on YouTube while in bed. Fuck I'm crazy :lmao
> 
> Anyways, looking back on it, it was actually really good bar the Bret/Vince shit. Underrated IMO.


Love WM 26. Main complaint is the time for matches, but honestly I think most of them do really well for the time given. Punk/Rey was super short, but they got just about everything a good match needs in that small amount of time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone actually like any of Takers' pre-attitude matches?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I do . Matches with Yoko, while not classics or anything, are really fun. WM match against Diesel is great at the MOTN imo. Stuff with Flair was good (House shows obviously). Hogan matches were alright too. Liked the WM match with Jake Roberts, good for the time it got. His matches with Foley in 96 are awesome, and that's technically all pre-attitude era stuff . Ooo, match with Bret at RR 96 (some people hate it because its slow, which is understandable), as is the one from... 92 or something. Probably forgetting some shit .

Edit: His match with Luger in WCW is really good too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just glad someone else does too, still love his fued and match vs Roberts, and that match against Diesel, and yeah as 96 is pre attitude, matches against Foley of course count, such as buried alive.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love their KOTR 96 match. Up there with their best stuff like ROTT from 97. Also they had a good casket match at a house show in 96 that I have on disc.

Anyone here seen the film The Wrestler? Not the Mickey Rourke one, but the Verne Gagne one from 1974. Imported it from Australia last week.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Anyone actually like any of Takers' pre-attitude matches?!


The gimmick and level of talent he usually had to worked with kept him from having great matches. You won't find too many good matches with Kamala, Fake Undetaker, Giant Gonzolas, Papa Shango, King Bundy, etc.

However

Taker/Bret MSG 92
Taker/Roberts WM8
Taker/Diesel WM12
Taker/Owen Raw 96
Taker/Mankind KOTR 96
Taker/Goldust International Incident 96
Taker/Mankind Buried Alive 96
Taker/Mankind Revenge of the Taker 97
Taker/Austin Cold Day in Hell 97
Taker/Vader Canadian Stampede 97
Taker/Bret SummerSlam 97
Taker/Michaels Ground Zero 97
Taker/Bret One Night Only 97
Taker/Michaels Badd Blood 97


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Never seen the match with Owen, I'll have too look that up, how about sone of Takers' tag matches, like with Kane, sure he had tags with Bret Hart and one with Yokozuna too..


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I like the six man tag team flag match from Raw July 97. Taker/Austin/Dude Love vs. Bret/Owen/Davey. Taker & Mankind vs. Shawn & Hunter from that year is good too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> ^ Which Taker match is it on SD 03 with Angle? Is it the one a couple of weeks after SummerSlam? I'm reaching that point in my journey through 2003 right now so I'll be looking forward towards that match. (Angle/Lesnar Ironman is only a couple of weeks away)


Wasn't aware they had more than one, but yes, it's the one a couple of weeks before the Angle/Lesnar Ironman, which was just as good. Angle was on fire in 03.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Undertaker is THEE GOAT, IMO. You simply cannot fault him whatsoever, and if you tried, there's an legit argument against your reasoning. One of a kind, never will we see anybody like him. Simple.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Probably just me, but I do like Takers' hardcore match against Van Dam ( can't remember the ppv ), and his WM18 brawl type match with Flair.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match with Flair at WM is MOTN for me. 2 of the GOAT going at it with a great feud behind them and having a great match. Way better than the Hogan/Rock match which might have been bigger on paper, but had a shitty feud going into it and a good match with a great crowd.

I too love the hardcore match with RVD from Vengeance 01. Got the PPV on my PC, and every now and then when I'm bored I'll watch that match lol. Undertaker was so awesome around that point. Shame he had to drop the belt to Maven. But he got the Undisputed title after that .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah that's the one, thought it was Summerslam for some reason lol, also love his Raw ladder match vs Hardy too, one of my faves tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only Hardy/RVD match I remember liking was Invasion. Thought their SS ladder match was a monstrous pile of utter bollack shite. Like, seriously one of the very worst ladder matches in existence.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

When does the Top 50 Finishing Moves DVD come out?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I fucking adore the Taker/Hardy, probably in my top three Jeff singles matches ever, also. The Undertaker was such a boss from 01-03 it was unreal. Might watch it again and post my thoughts in a bit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

August 21st in the US.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Batista v JBL (No Holds Barred) Summerslam 05 - ****1/2*

Really fun brawl this. Only 10 minutes of action but they filled it very well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I fucking adore the Taker/Hardy, probably in my top three Jeff singles matches ever, also. The Undertaker was such a boss from 01-03 it was unreal. Might watch it again and post my thoughts in a bit


Probably a top 5 Jeff Hardy match for me. Undertaker's heel run from late 01-mid 02 is my favourite run of any guy ever. Then he continued to be awesome as a face :mark:.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Flair from WM18 is my MOTN as well, though I understand people giving Rock/Hogan the nudge of MOTN for the fact it's one of the biggest of all time, and it actually was a pretty damn good match in itself.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck it, since everybody's going Taker crazy here, I might as well throw my name into the hat and do a top 10 Taker PPV list 

1. vs HBK BB 97 (GOAT Match)
2. vs HBK WM XXVI (GOAT WM ME)
3. vs HBK WM XXV (MOTY 2009)
4. vs Kurt Angle NWO 06 (MOTY 2006)
5. vs HHH WM XXVII
6. vs Brock Lesnar NM 02
7. vs HHH WM XXVIII
8. vs Edge WM XXIV
9. vs Bret Hart ONO 97
10. vs Edge SS 08


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Taker/Flair gets MOTN just because of dat spinebuster~! :arn


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I do . *Matches with Yoko, while not classics or anything, are really fun*. WM match against Diesel is great at the MOTN imo. Stuff with Flair was good (House shows obviously). Hogan matches were alright too. Liked the WM match with Jake Roberts, good for the time it got. His matches with Foley in 96 are awesome, and that's technically all pre-attitude era stuff . Ooo, match with Bret at RR 96 (some people hate it because its slow, which is understandable), as is the one from... 92 or something. Probably forgetting some shit .
> 
> Edit: His match with Luger in WCW is really good too.


I just really felt the need to quote this, as I fucking love watching their matches together. Everyone shits on their first Casket match because of the finish but I could probably watch that match and the entire post match happenings every day and never get tired of it. Gotta love a good slugfest from two big guys and an awesome Taker resurrection moment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I fucking love Taker/Hardy but Hardy/Trips from NM '08 is my favorite Hardy singles match of all time. Just for the hell of it, my top five Jeff Hardy singles matches:

1. vs Triple H - No Mercy '08
2. vs Undertaker - Raw '02 Ladder Match
3. vs CM Punk - Smackdown '09 Cage Match
4. vs CM Punk - Summerslam TLC Match
5. vs Triple H - Armageddon '07

I need to rewatch Hardy/HBK from Raw '08, Hardy/Umaga from GAB '07 (love it, but I think I'd put the Armageddon match higher), Hardy/Orton from Rumble '08 and Hardy/Cena from Raw '08. Plus he had a couple really good Morrison matches if I recall. And the RVD Invasion match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Only Hardy/RVD match I remember liking was Invasion. Thought their SS ladder match was a monstrous pile of utter bollack shite. Like, seriously one of the very worst ladder matches in existence.


Don't think I've seen any rvd/hardy matches tbh, but I did mean Taker/Hardy Raw ladder match, which I still love.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Taker and Hardy is an excellent Ladder Match. 

Besides their 01' encounters, Rob Van Dam and Jeff had another title vs title Ladder match on Raw in 2002 which was just as good as the others.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I think Michaels has had the most "MOTYs" in WWE history. Just thinking about it (strictly WWE) and not counting 2012:

- Bret Hart: 1992 (Dave Boy), 1994 (Owen), 1995 (Diesel, Rumble), 1996 (Iron Man), and 1997 (Bret Hart). *5*.

That makes it a straight 4 for Bret. I don't think the IM is the GOAT match, but I'm not high on Mind Games and Bret/Austin from SS '96 (not even four stars high), and 1996 doesn't have anything in classic territory for me apart from KOTR '96 between Michaels and Davey Boy.

- Shawn Michaels: 1996 (Iron Man), 2002 (Hunter), 2004 (Benoit/Hunter), 2007 (Orton, SS), 2008 (Jericho), 2009 (Underman), 2010 (Underman). *7*.

- The Undertaker: 2006 (Angle), 2009 (Michaels), 2010 (Michaels), 2011 (Hunter). *4*.

- Triple H: 2000 (Foley), 2002 (Michaels), 2004 (Benoit/Michaels), 2005 (Batista), 2011 (Undertaker). *5*.

- Steve Austin: 1997 (Bret), 1998 (Dude Love), 2001 (Rock), 2003 (Rock). *4*.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker WWE MOTY - 1997 (HIAC), 2002 (Vengeance 3 way), 2005 (Orton HIAC), 2006 (Angle NWO), 2007 (Batista WM), 2008 (Edge WM), 2009 (HBK WM), 2010 (HBK WM), 2011 (HHH WM), 2012 so far (HHH WM).

9 in total for me lol .

HBK WWE MOTY - 1995 (Ladder Razor), 1997 (HIAC), 2004 (WM 3 way), 2009 (Undertaker WM), 2010 (Undertaker WM)

5 in total .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2011 : Punk/Cena (MITB)
2010 : HBK/Taker (WM)
2009 : HBK/Taker (WM)
2008 : Edge/Taker (WM)
2007 : Umaga/Cena (RR)
2006 : Angle/Taker (NWO)
2005 : Hunter/Batista (VEN)
2004 : Hunter/HBK/Benoit (WM)
2003 : Angle/Benoit (RR)
2002 : Hunter/HBK (SS)
2001 : Hunter/Austin (NWO)
2000 : Hunter/Foley (RR)
1999 : Rock/Foley (RR)
1998 : Austin/Foley (OTE)
1997 : HBK/Taker (BB)
1996 : Austin/Bret (SS)
1995 : Diesel/Bret (SS)
1994 : Owen/Bret (WM)
1993 : Perfect/Bret (SS)
1992 : Bulldog/Bret (SS)
1991 : Savage/Warrior (WM)
1990 : Hogan/Warrior (WM)

SO..By my estimation :

Taker : 5
HHH : 5
Bret : 5
HBK : 5
Foley : 3
Austin : 3
Cena : 2
Warrior : 2
Benoit : 2

Wrestlers with multiple MOTY's


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

This century -

2000 - HHH/Foley - Royal Rumble
2001 - Rock/Austin - Wrestlemania 17
2002 - Taker/Rock/Kurt - Vengeance 
2003 - Kurt/Benoit - Royal Rumble
2004 - Benoit/HHH/HBK - Wrestlemania 
2005 - Batista/HHH - Vengeance
2006 - Taker/Angle - No Way Out
2007 - Taker/Batista - Wrestlemania
2008 - HBK/Flair - Wrestlemania
2009 - HBK/Taker - Wrestlemania
2010 - HBK/Taker - Wrestlemania
2011 - Cena/Punk - Money In The Bank
2012 - Punk/Bryan - Over The Limit

The Undertaker - 5
Shawn Michaels - 4
Triple H - 3
Kurt Angle - 3
Chris Benoit - 2
CM Punk - 2 (Could change)
Batista - 2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

No idea what the 2002 MOTY would be for me, certainly not the No Mercy Tag or HBK/HHH. Would probably be one of Brock/Rock or Lesnar/Taker HIAC. Vengeance triple threat is good, but not THAT GOOD. Rest of the year has some good matches but lacks in truly 'epic' matches, Elimination Chamber isn't terrible but the 2005 Chamber and the 2009 NWO Chamber featuring Mysterio being leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else are better chamber matches.

2004 MOTY? Benoit/HBK/HHH is a tremendous shout, though Benoit/Orton Summerslam, Foley/Orton Backlash, Benoit/Edge/Jericho v Batista/Orton/Flair Raw & Mysterio/Chavo from Great American Bash are also excellent. MOTY however is Eddie/JBL from Judgement Day, so hate filled, so passionate and featuring one of Eddie's finest performances with JBL also excelling in his role. However I'm adamant that Eddie/Big Show from Smackdown is my favourite match of the year. So smartly worked and encapsulating everything that is wonderful about pro-wrestling, but it doesn't get the time to be a MOTYC even if it is a personal favourite in company history.

2005 MOTY is without doubt Eddie/Mysterio 06/23 on Smackdown. Neither HBK/Angle match is anywhere near the level of that, Judgement Day or Great American Bash in their series. Batista/HHH is an excellent HIAC though and worthy of the top 3. MITB 1 is super thanks to Benoit's selling and making a multi-man ladder match something other than a catalogue of insane spots to pop a crowd. Cena/JBL Judgement Day is a very good I Quit match.

2007 MOTY would be one of the Cena/HBK matches, or Cena/Umaga LMS. Cena/Orton is a very good Summerslam main event, and Orton/HHH LMS and Orton/HBK are also very good in their own right, but aren't as good as the first three matches I mentioned IMO. Finlay/Mysterio have a couple of excellent TV matches on Smackdown and Taker/Batista remains a very good heavyweight bomb throwing match despite my tastes always making me expect to dislike it, I just cannot.

2008 MOTY? Its not HBK/Jericho imo, but the year isn't exactly layered with matches that scream being MOTY. Edge/Taker HIAC is just too gimmicky for my liking, and I absolutely loathe Edge as a worker from like 2008 onwards. Flair/HBK is emotive but the actual ring work leaves a lot to be desired, though I can't argue if people focus on the emotion as drawing them in. HHH/Cena from NOC and Orton/Cena NWO are both top tier title matches, with the latter being superbly worked in the context of the feud and both men putting in top performances. HHH/Hardy No Mercy however would likely be my MOTY, a rare HHH performance from this period where I can't find any fault with him and it was a super match in Hardy's quest to becoming champion, very smartly worked face/face match which left both men looking great by the end and with a super veteran finish.

Punk/Cena MITB is far and away the 2011 MOTY, Cena/Mysterio, Bryan/Henry Steel Cage, Orton/Christian OTL & Miz/Lawler are also better than HHH/Taker IMO, but the latter match especially is just personal opinion in what I look for in a match these days.

Mind Games v Mankind is also a far more deserving 1996 MOTY for Michaels than the Iron-Man.


2000- HHH/Jericho LMS. Royal Rumble 2000 and HHH/Rock Backlash are mighty close, but the LMS has HHH putting in one of his best ever performances with Jericho supporting him tremendously, Street Fight is an incredible Foley showcase but as a whole I find the LMS more captivating.
2001- Austin/Angle Summerslam. Benoit/Austin Edmonton and Benoit/Jericho v HHH/Austin would also be above Rock/Austin Wrestlemania.
2002- Brock/Rock or Brock/Taker, can't decide.
2003- Angle/Lesnar Ironman.
2004- Eddie/JBL Judgement Day.
2005- Eddie/Mysterio 06/23 Smackdown
2006- Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day (Taker/Angle NWO is probably 'better' but there are so many little touches in Benoit/Finlay that I always end up thinking of it as being my favourite match and something I'd rank ahead of the NWO match in terms of 'best in company history'. Weird logic I admit.
2007- Cena/Michaels Wrestlemania.
2008- HHH/Hardy No Mercy.
2009- Punk/Hardy Steel Cage, Loser Leaves Town Smackdown. Legit adore the match and find it more engrossing than anything else in the year, Jericho/Mysterio from The Bash is the best PPV match though despite my reservations about Jericho as a worker in this time-frame.
2010- HBK/Taker Wrestlemania
2011- Punk/Cena Money In The Bank
2012- Cena/Lesnar Extreme Rules


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

2012: Cena/Brock Extreme Rules, thought it was a GOAT level match
2011: Pun/Cena MITB, not much contention except from Triple H/Taker Mania
2010: Michaels/Undertaker Mania, GOAT. If it wasn't for that match, I'd probably give it to the Rumble
2009: Michaels/Undertaker Mania, Edge/Cena Backlash was also spectacular bar the finish
2008: Batista/Michaels ONS, love this more and more with each viewing
2007: Michaels/Cena Mania
2006: Idunno, Angle/Undertaker by default b/c I can't think of anything
2005: Triple H/Batista HIAC Vengeance
2004: Benoit/Triple H/Michaels from Mania, I guess
2003: Brock/Angle Iron-man
2002: Brock/Rock SummerSlam or Brock/Taker HIAC No Mercy
2001: Austin/Rock Mania
2000: Triple H/Foley from the Rumble probably, or Rock/Triple H from Backlash
1999: BLAH
1998: Ehhh, OTE against Dude Love? Maybe
1997: Austin/Hart Mania, GOAT II
1996: Mindgames? I don't know
1995: Bret/Davey IYH: Season's Beatings
1994: Bret/Owen or the Ladder Match Mania X


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Seems me and HOL share similar thoughts bar the odd year, really should rewatch that Batista/Michaels match because I recall you on many occasions pimping that as well as the entire Flair/HBK > Batista/HBK > Jericho/HBK story arc.

Brock/Cena is legit one of the best matches the company has put on, unlike anything seen before it in the company and had a legitimate aura of violence and puts Cena in his best match setting against one of the best monsters. Whole build to the comeback was engrossing and the final moments were inspiring, finish also gets better to me with every viewing. Makes Cena look like the hero pulling out a huge win with everything he has left, but Lesnar is still the man who fucked his arm to frightening proportions and who left an emphatic beating on the company ace. Cena's booking immediately afterwards on Raw is worse than the actual finish, with the right booking it might have finally given the Cena character depth and a set of balls.

Legit no idea what my 1999 MOTY would be, agreed with you on 1998 though but would go HIAC > Austin/Bret, just because I love the storytelling centred around the Michaels character in the Cell match and how they create this aura of fear and violence which would go on to dominate the build in future Cell matches.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Michaels/Batista is pretty much an extended squash. You see this man nearly past his prime trick the animal, the man who went toe to toe with the Undertaker the previous year, out of a victory at Backlash. When Jericho exposed Michaels for faking the injury the character change in Batista was amazing. He went from that guy who wanted to avenge his mentor, to being a raging bull intent on hurting the man who made him look stupid.

Think it's a basic story to relate to. Tough guy is made to look like a fool by the wiser, more experienced pro and tough guy wants redemption. And boy does he get it. Michaels buys pity brilliantly as we've seen in many performances but this might be one of the best. You know you probably shouldn't feel sorry for him. Batista promised Michaels that if he were lying to him, he would pay dearly. But Michaels is just a master at garnering sympathy.

There's a shot of Batista crouching down, waiting to spear Michaels, and that picture pretty much tells the story of the whole match. Michaels is done, beaten and broken, but Batista has to do what he promised he would do. You don't see an evil animal, just the tough guy who wants his rep back.

The inclusion of Jericho was both good and bad. While it does slightly detract from the closure of this program, it sets up for the bigger story that was coming up.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

2000 - Triple H/Jericho LMS
2001 - Triple H/Austin No way out
2002 - Triple H/Shawn Summerslam 
2003 - Angle/Benoit RR 
2004 - Triple H/Shawn/Benoit WM 20
2005 - Triple H/Batista HIAC
2006 - Taker/Angle NWO 
2007 - Cena/Shawn RAW
2008 - Triple H/Hardy No mercy
2009 - Punk/Hardy summerslam
2010 - Taker/Shawn WM 26
2011 - Cena/Punk MITB
2012 - Triple H/Taker HIAC


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shit WW this week. Dammit. Wanted last week's but had no money. Don't want this week's, but I get paid .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I was thinking of getting the 1995/96 one, but looking at it, think I can live without it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They'd be good if the matches weren't clipped. For the year in review sets they should have stuck to TV matches instead. Would have appealed to me that way. Though I'm gonna be getting back into trading so I'll eventually pick up all the TV shows anyway .


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

The last two wild wednesday's have been rubbish. Last weeks was silvervision trying to get rid of the best of ppv matches when they going to release it as part of the 2012 annual soon. And now crappy tagged classics. The rock one was good the other week.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock one was a massive disappointment for me since they hyped it up as being the best ever... and it ended up being a set of Rock matches .

Last week's I wanted because it was the Bluray too, and they don't release a Bluray version of the annual sets.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Anyone remember Rock vs Benoit on Smackdown in 2002? Not too talked about but pretty fun bout.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Royal Rumble 05

HBK/Edge - ***1/2
Undertaker/Heidenreich - **1/4
Angle/Show/JBL - ***1/2
Orton/HHH - ***
Rumble - ****1/4

Great show.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just PLOUGHING my way through these PPV WWE Championship matches lately , and found some matches that I like/dislike that might vastly differentiate from what others think.

For instance , I believe that the Barrett-Orton series (Bragging Rights 10 , Survivor Series 10) are two ** 3/4* that show how flawed of a main event player Barrett is, unless paired with somebody who plays to his strengths like John Cena. Just so much bland offense with a horrible pace and little story being told. If it wasn't for the whole CENA dynamic being somewhat interesting, this would be like one snowflake from me. 

On the other hand, I have Diesel-Mabel from Summerslam 95 at *** 1/2* , WAAAAYYYYY higher than anybody else in the universe. Just a fun, less than 10 minutes long match with lots of power and a surprisingly fast pace. The move differentiation isn't very wide, but what exactly do you expect between Diesel and Mabel ? I'm also not NEARLY as high on the Orton-Cena series as everyone else seems to be. I like the SS 07 match, and I still have to watch the SS 09, NWO 08, and UNF 07 matches , but I have BP 09 at **** 1/4* (Seen some people giving it four plus) , the Ironman match at *****, and the HIAC match at *** 3/4*. I think the WWE tries to force how epic these two are , down our throats. Both men have much, much better opponents.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> On the other hand, I have Diesel-Mabel from Summerslam 95 at *** 1/2* , WAAAAYYYYY higher than anybody else in the universe. Just a fun, less than 10 minutes long match with lots of power and a surprisingly fast pace. The move differentiation isn't very wide, but what exactly do you expect between Diesel and Mabel ? I'm also not NEARLY as high on the Orton-Cena series as everyone else seems to be. I like the SS 07 match, and I still have to watch the SS 09, NWO 08, and UNF 07 matches , but I have BP 09 at **** 1/4* (Seen some people giving it four plus) , the Ironman match at *****, and the HIAC match at *** 3/4*. I think the WWE tries to force how epic these two are , down our throats. Both men have much, much better opponents.


Unfortunately, it was main events such as Diesel/Mabel that made '95 so terrible.

Agreed on Orton/Punk, though. I have never been able to get into Orton as a main event player. Nearly all of his feuds/matches that people expect to be good (vs Cena, vs HHH) haven't been. Feud vs. Christian was good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only Cena/Orton matches worth watching are NWO 08 and BP 09, but the finish to BP 09 can leave a baaad taste.

Getting back into fully trading and selling discs again, so I decided to go through my collection today and make sure I have everything on my list currently (nothing lost etc), and to see what needs to be added (as well as getting around to going through about 50 discs with nothing written on them lol). Didn't realise I had so many WWE 3 disc releases from the last 2 years lol. Also had to give up going through my discs half way in. Got too bloody many to go through at once . So many comps!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was live for NWO 08 which probably made the match better in my eyes than it truly was. Even though DQ finishes are becoming more and more commonplace/annoying, Orton slapping the shit out of the referee was hilarious. Crowd was great for that match, too.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I liked Cena and Orton's several feuds. The only match they had that I really don't like is their SummerSlam 09 match. I even thought their HIAC match wasn't too bad.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Just PLOUGHING my way through these PPV WWE Championship matches lately , and found some matches that I like/dislike that might vastly differentiate from what others think.
> 
> For instance , I believe that the Barrett-Orton series (Bragging Rights 10 , Survivor Series 10) are two ** 3/4* that show how flawed of a main event player Barrett is, unless paired with somebody who plays to his strengths like John Cena. Just so much bland offense with a horrible pace and little story being told. If it wasn't for the whole CENA dynamic being somewhat interesting, this would be like one snowflake from me.
> 
> On the other hand, I have Diesel-Mabel from Summerslam 95 at *** 1/2* , WAAAAYYYYY higher than anybody else in the universe. Just a fun, less than 10 minutes long match with lots of power and a surprisingly fast pace. The move differentiation isn't very wide, but what exactly do you expect between Diesel and Mabel ? I'm also not NEARLY as high on the Orton-Cena series as everyone else seems to be. I like the SS 07 match, and I still have to watch the SS 09, NWO 08, and UNF 07 matches , but I have BP 09 at **** 1/4* (Seen some people giving it four plus) , the Ironman match at *****, and the HIAC match at *** 3/4*. *I think the WWE tries to force how epic these two are , down our throats.* Both men have much, much better opponents.


Quoted for fucking truth.

The fact of the matter is that yeah, they're the two most successful stars since the attitude era, but that doesn't stop them having shit chemistry and that doesn't stop them from being completely bland and boring when thrown together. I can't remember what Royal Rumble it was, but when they went face to face and it was just them and the crowd just shat on it - It couldn't have proved how boring these two are together more perfectly. I've watched all of their matches together and the only one that I'd ever consider watching is their BP match but I wouldn't necessarily CHOOSE to watch it over other matches :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh man I fucking LOVED that RR moment where they tried the old Rock/Austin staredown and the fans didn't react in the slightest. Burst out laughing at like, 3am in the morning watching it live. Woke my dad up.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is Orton really the 2nd most successful star of the era though? There are stars who overlapped both eras (Jericho, Edge didn't really become singles material until later on in his career, Lesnar, Batista) who I'd argue are bigger names.

For instance, to me, Cena/Batista is a bigger WM main event than Cena/Orton.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I was live for NWO 08 which probably made the match better in my eyes than it truly was. Even though DQ finishes are becoming more and more commonplace/annoying, Orton slapping the shit out of the referee was hilarious. Crowd was great for that match, too.


Definitely the prized jewel in their series, though Summerslam 2007 is awfully close to overtaking it as their best outing. Generally I find them to have solid chemistry, in that I can't remember them having unwatchable matches, and with the right storyline and booking they've had two great matches and one very good match with a super Orton performance (Breaking Point 2009) whilst the rest have sort of stayed in 'unspectacular' territory.

Still that look in Orton's eyes and waiting for Cena to see him deck the referee was just Heel 101. Orton peaked during 2004-2006 as the cocky youngster and would never surpass that period of his career ring or character wise.

Like the HBK/HHH feud (which just would not END, the HIAC is still one of the hardest matches to sit through) WWE just tried miserably to make it out to be greater than it actually was, and the constant hot-shotting of the belt and constant rematches were just tiring by the fall of 2009.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I actually think a lot of people underrate the HBK/HHH HIAC by quite a bit. 

I agree that Orton/Cena would've been a fine feud had they not built it up to be something it could never possibly live up to be (Austin/Rock v.2).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think like most WWE Main Event style 'epics' its a match which can divide a lot of folk, when done right it can be beautiful (HBK/Taker II, Austin/Hart, HBK/Taker HIAC) and then other times it can be overly forced (HBK/HHH HIAC, Austin/HHH NWO 2/3 falls etc). For me seeing them do standard wrestling for the beginning of the match when it was portrayed as the feud ender to end all feuds was poorly done, and then between the big spots, slow pace and selling on the mat I just found it to be a badly done attempt at creating a MOTYC. I actually feel their best matches are the ones where they work a more simpler and structured match without stipulations and trying to make the match legendary, i.e the December '03 Raw match in San Antonio and I think a match at Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday where HBK has an injured leg and they work a shorter match around HHH dissecting the leg and building up HBK's comeback.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I know for a fact that match divides a lot of people. However, most are in love with HHH/Austin NWO. You didn't like that match? That was ***** for most.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Whilst I understand why its popular, I think the 2/3 falls aspect hurt them. The first fall irritates me because its barely wrestled like a feud ender/grudge match should be (this only becomes more apparent the more Memphis, Lucha and Mid South I watch, where brawling was done as well as I've ever seen it) with some bi-polar limbwork from HHH, Austin strangely selling as well as Gil from The Simpsons and then a really lazily done finish to the first fall. I just think it pales in comparison to a lot of brawls (Lawler/Mantell, Lawler/Dundee, Lawler/Funk, Funk/Flair, Funk/Hansen) and then after the tame opening fall they have to shoot their load in the second fall and they utilise a number of weapons and spots I think would have been better served for the final fall. By the end of the third fall there's steel chair shots to the skull being sold as nothing more than bodyslams and the crowd seem very quiet and don't react to things like the barbed wire bat in a way they did in brawls which were paced a lot better (HHH/Cactus for a recent comparison).

I just think the strange opening fall meant they had to overcompensate in the second fall and as a result things didn't seem to flow as well as I hoped. I really question the need for the 2/3 falls aspect and think a straight one fall match would have served them far better pacing wise. I do adore the finish though as the perfect lead in to Austin's breakdown at Wrestlemania and forcing him to question whether he is still the man.

There was an excellent review of it by a user on here in the old DVD thread, will have to try and search it because he examined the flaws in the match tremendously.

I do accept though why others don't take issue with some of the things I do, just further clarifies the diverse tastes wrestling fans have.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The selling does bother me quite a bit, but overall I thought it didn't hurt the match much. I personally don't think it's ***** as some others have stated, but it's definitely up there. I'd have to watch it again (been a few years) in order to analyze it in depth like you have.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Finally tracked down the review, when I came across it at first I too was thinking whether he'd watched the same match. Then I watched it and a lot of the things he discussed I couldn't defend, a good example of an in depth review making me question a favourite of mine. Plus the older and more wrestling I've watched my tastes have differed and evolved. I'd rank the match a bit higher than him, but I agree with near enough everything he says:



> Triple H vs. Steve Austin, 2/3 Falls, WWF 2/25/01
> 
> 
> The first fall is a freaking mess, with both guys obviously killing time so they can get to the weapons. Triple H busts out a neckbreaker three times, Austin busts out the Thesz press three times, one of which is botched. Triple H can't focus in on anything, dancing between the neck and the leg. The lack of focus is compounded with Austin's total lack of desire to sell any of it, making it worse. When Triple H finally settles in on the leg work, it's long and not very interesting. Austin's up two seconds later running around like he's Sonjay Dutt, so it makes you wonder why they even bothered. We got some hot brawling in this to start off, but once they got through the first lap around the ring, it got obvious really quick that they didn't really plan to do much here. I wouldn't call it BAD as much as it was completely hot-dogged.
> ...


A follow up argument from him on WWF/E brawls which I also whole-heartedly agree with:



> I'd have probably started off with the street fight and really let them brawl. I can't even comprehend why they'd bother going to neck and leg work. This is a hate fest. Best off keeping it a wild brawl keep it under 20 minutes, go fast and furious and go home. I feel like the WWE in particular, go way too long with their big blow off matches. You watch the fantastic Lawler brawls back in the 80s, I don't think one of them goes past 20 minutes, most of them in fact, don't even go past 15 minutes. Still, they manage to pack all the hate and wildness into the time frame and make it entirely satisfying... I wish they'd consider that here as it's obvious outside of the great first 2-3 minutes and the weapons spots, that they didn't have much worked out.


I wish that guy still posted around here, he seemed to have a great grasp of old school territories wrestling as well as the current product.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked Trip in the match on last watch. Thought he sold his arm well and when it stopped him from being able to use the pedigree it was great. The problem with the match is, yeah, it doesn't feel hateful enough. HHH tried to run Austin over with a god-damn car not long before that and they were still in that mindset. A grudge match doesn't need more than 20 minutes let alone 50; I've seen 10-12 minute ones that are pretty much perfect. I don't think HHH and Austin ever really had the match they should have. I like how Steve just forgets Hunter tried to kill him and they team up two months later.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*World Heavyweight Championship*
Ric Flair (c) vs. Barry Windham
_NWA Worldwide 1/20/87_

Have NWA Battle of the Belts 2 on the way so I decided I should probably see this Flair/Windham match before I watch the other. Heard great things about this, never gotten through it fully before. Gotta say I loved the pacing right off the bat. Never much of a dull moment. Flair's arm work was well done, brought out some of that amateur background. It didn't really go anywhere in the match but I think it was just basic instinct to attack a body part and see where it leads you. The biggest things I think I loved in this match were small things Windham did. His reactions to Flair's heel tactics and cheating (which were awesome as always by the way) were a blast to watch and I loved it when he gets pissed at the ref. His overall athleticism was amazing for a guy his size, the bumps he took on the floor were good and everything he did was so smooth, plus the guy throws some damn good punches.Honestly my favorite part of the entire match is when Flair has Windham in the sleeper hold and Barry slips out from the bottom because of all the sweat and hits him with a kick from the mat. Idk why that just looked so fucking good. 

As we all know the match goes to a 45 minute TV time limit, but it doesn't feel anywhere near that long. Absolute breeze to sit through. The final 5 minutes are so great with Windham just throwing everything he can at Flair in desperation and Ric either trying to get away or escaping out of a pinfall. I also loved how after the match Windham just simply grabs the belt and a mic and tells Flair his time is comin and he'll beat him another day, then lays the belt on an exhausted Nature Boy. Didn't beg for more time or complain about anything, just made the title seem so important. Great match, excited to see their other encounters now.

*****1/2*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That's pretty much a classic, and probably only Windham's third best match...... of 1987. Guy was TREMENDOUS.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> Finally tracked down the review, when I came across it at first I too was thinking whether he'd watched the same match. Then I watched it and a lot of the things he discussed I couldn't defend, a good example of an in depth review making me question a favourite of mine. Plus the older and more wrestling I've watched my tastes have differed and evolved. I'd rank the match a bit higher than him, but I agree with near enough everything he says:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting points. I'll have to watch the match again while keeping these aspects in mind. Thanks man.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Austin/Hunter NWO: ***1/2*

Agreed with whoever that was.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

If you like Michaels/Ramon Ladder match (X; SS '95 isn't good) and then don't like Hunter/Austin, I won't give it much weight. If you dislike both matches, it's appropriate.

Also, Michaels/Hunter from SS '02 doesn't need Michaels selling his back. Why? Because THIS is the show-stoppa, the main event, the headliner who is returning as an in-ring competitor to prove to that Hunter SOB that he is and shall forever remain better than Triple H and bad back or NOT--nothing can stop him. That is why the selling, or lack thereof doesn't bother me at all. Michaels went on to prove in all his future matches that his back wouldn't stop him and he has overcome the back issues. The entire story of Michaels' return from 2002 to his retirement in 2010 is completely elaborated in the SummerSlam match against Hunter and concluded in the Undertaker match at 'Mania XXVI. The two matches have a deep link if you really look beyond the obvious, which is also why I believe those are two of Michaels' very best matches.

I could go on and on about SummerSlam 2002, but yeah. My point.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

How is the Mania X match anything like the 3SOH? 

And yeah, SS isn't good.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *World Heavyweight Championship*
> Ric Flair (c) vs. Barry Windham
> _NWA Worldwide 1/20/87_
> 
> ...


Five stars all the way, it was a rollercoaster of a match.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, Two out of Three Falls Match for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Extreme Rules* 

This fantastic match saw Daniel Bryan pushed hard as an aggressive, intelligent, submissions expert, with Sheamus showcased as a die hard, determined babyface champion who wouldn’t give up. I think Sheamus is one of the most underated workers in the WWE despite some questions over his selling ability and stamina but he has shown that he can have a good match with near anyone , so when parnered with someone the calibre of Bryan you know you will see something awesome.

Bryan utilizes a mix of technical moves with sheer viciousness in his kicks and use of the ring post, this in combination of good selling and a look of delusion of pain in the face of Sheamus blurs the line of fake/reality which is when you know pro rasslin is at its best. Bryan plays a great arrogant sort of weasel like character , the epitome of this is a great conducting of the choir during the suspensful gap between the end of the 2nd and start of the 3rd fall. This match was a magnificent melding of exciting, technically sound wrestling and a story of a valiant babyface champion. I this match would have happend at Wresltemania it could have made Sheamus a much bigger star instead of the backlash which followed his 18 second victory.

★ ★ ★ ★ 1/2​


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Wild Wednesday offer: year review of 1993 and 1994 (tagged classic) and 1995/96 also tagged classic. Gonna be a pass from me. ..


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> How is the Mania X match anything like the 3SOH?
> 
> And yeah, SS isn't good.


It's not, but both fall in the same genre of wrestling, with only the backdrop being different.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

jomo17 said:


> Wild Wednesday offer: year review of 1993 and 1994 (tagged classic) and 1995/96 also tagged classic. Gonna be a pass from me. ..


Me too, gonna pick up Extreme Rules instead.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*2005 PPV Main Events

Quick Thoughts: Cena/JBL was yay, Dave/HHH was yay, Dave/JBL was meh, Hogan/HBK was a sick joke, Cena/Angle was meh and Dave/Eddie was alright.

John Cena vs. JBL (WWE Heavyweight Championship- I Quit Match)
WWE Judgment Day 2005*

-Extremely good match and a star making performance from Cena and JBL's performance was gold. Solid brawling and they worked at a good pace with lots of blood and plenty of big spots. It really picks up at the end where Cena starts barraging JBL with brutal spots that should probably kill a person. The finish was understandable but it fell kind of flat. Great match, lackluster finish for my taste.

*Batista vs. Triple H (World Heavyweight Championship- Hell in a Cell Match)
WWE Vengeance 2005*

-Great HIAC and feud ender between these guys. Lot of brtual spots and good use of the cell, even through all of that they made sure that the story they were trying to tell got across. I was really impressed at how they didn't need a barrage of weapons, instead using a few key ones and getting those spots over. Lots of blood from HHH and the finish was well done, made even sweeter by the extra segment where Triple H proclaimed Big Dave as the man.

*Batista vs. JBL (World Heavyweight Championship)
WWE Great American Bash 2005*

-A solid brawl here. The match for the most part plodded a lot but they managed to make up for it with some big spots. However, between the referee stuff and OJ interfering it really put down the effort and the DQ finish was a copout, but they needed to set the rematch so I guess it accomplished what it needed to. In all, a solid if unforgettable title match.

*Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels (Icon vs. Icon match)
WWE Summerslam 2005*

-The buildup was excellent but the match itself was mostly pandering and Shawn's overselling really hurt the "big fight" atmosphere of this match, not to mention it got a lot of time. This should've been booked more in the way of Flair/Michaels; Hogan did get the crowd back into it by the end of the match. It's really hard to rate this.

*John Cena vs. Kurt Angle (WWE Heavyweight Championship)
WWE Unforgiven 2005*

-This was a solid title match that was going along fine until the shenanigans started. They basically did the same thing with JBL/Batista from GAB. A screwy finish that keeps the belt on Cena while giving Angle the W. They hit their typical offense and whatnot and build up to their finishers then the ref bump followed with the Bischoff stuff really bought this down.

*Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero (World Heavyweight Championship)
WWE No Mercy 2005*

-Eddie's last PPV match... Overall this was a solid title match between these guys. The chemistry was there, the storytelling was there but the result meant a lackluster match. The first half is really slow and just when they're about to knock it into a new gear, the ref bump. They tried to pick it up with spots after all that nonsense but whatever, the finish was pretty good. A solid straight up match between these two without all the other crap would've been light years better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watching the Booker T/Goldust v Jericho/Christian tags, and fuck my ass they are great. I'm not thinking too deep, but I can't think of any tag series in WWE history I'd rather watch except for Rockers v Brainbusters. Goldust was pretty much as good as anyone in the company in 2002. For real.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Whilst watching many many WWE Championship matches, I started pondering to myself ; Who is the most unlikely pairing with great chemistry of all time ? There are a few IMO : Brock/Big Show certainly comes to mind with that epic , EPIC stretcher match that is easily Show's best match ever (***** 1/4 IMO , still need to rewatch it)* , the superplex match , and the few short PPV big 4 matches that these two have had. Just a WEIRD pairing. 

Another pair would have to be Cena and Umaga, I mean what the fuck ? I absolutely ADORE their 07 PPV duo of matches (need to rewatch both but both ***** +* from where I sit, and the LMS is my MOTY), and they had another few pretty great Raw matches on top of that. Another strange 07 pairing I GUESS would be Batista and the Undertaker, but Taker is pretty awesome in his own right so I guess it's not that unlikely. 

Thoughts ?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IDK I think Cena and Umaga are basically a perfect pairing. Honestly I pretty much don't give a flying shit about Cena unless he's fighting his way upwards, and Umaga's a giant asskicker who dominates his opponents and actually give Cena a chance to work from the bottom. The match kind of writes itself. 

Kane and Albert had matches that were way better than they had any right to be. It's not as if they had just one miracle match either, it was a series of really fun shit.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

I feel like I'm one of two people in the world who doesn't really care about Cena/Umaga. I don't think it's bad by any means, just not spectacular.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

jawbreaker said:


> I feel like I'm one of two people in the world who doesn't really care about Cena/Umaga. I don't think it's bad by any means, just not spectacular.


3 people . Me, you and Craig .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Five stars all the way, it was a rollercoaster of a match.


It's hard for me to give matches from that era the full boat, idk why. Guess it's just that I prefer the new style of wrestling and what I grew up watching.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

I liked cena/umaga. ****1/2 
I miss umaga. He wouldve been an awesome WWE champ. He was ferocious. Why did they release him in the first place?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Failed drug test, refused rehab.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

Well that's a damn shame.

In other news 
Jeff hardy / hhh - no mercy 2008 ****1/4 ....almost a 1/2. Hardys best match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah. Hardy's best match was against Angle in TNA a couple of years ago. Incredible stuff. I know Seabs loves it even more than me. I went around ****3/4, he went the full ***** and is considering it to be a GOAT match.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Jericho/HHH LMS FL 2000 - ***3/4
Rock/Angle/HHH SS 2000 - ***1/2
Taker/Bret/Vader/Austin FF 97 - ***1/4


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Nah. Hardy's best match was against Angle in TNA a couple of years ago. Incredible stuff. I know Seabs loves it even more than me. I went around ****3/4, he went the full ***** and is considering it to be a GOAT match.


Well, if you and seabs rate it so highly I better check it out...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho/HHH LMS FL 2000 - ****3/4
Rock/Angle/HHH SS 2000 - **
Taker/Bret/Vader/Austin FF 97 - ****3/4



Sgt. Pepper said:


> Well, if you and seabs rate it so highly I better check it out...


Oh yes, you absolutely should. You won't regret it :side:.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Finally tracked down the review, when I came across it at first I too was thinking whether he'd watched the same match. Then I watched it and a lot of the things he discussed I couldn't defend, a good example of an in depth review making me question a favourite of mine. Plus the older and more wrestling I've watched my tastes have differed and evolved. I'd rank the match a bit higher than him, but I agree with near enough everything he says


I actually like the match for the reason you and he dislike it -- I tend to view it as something like a ridiculous action blockbuster done right, where the action, when taken logically, is implausible and strains credulity, but in its ambition to entertain it succeeds wildly. It's like a Schwarzenegger movie directed by Christopher Nolan. 

Additionally, it's kind of the ultimate embodiment of "that sort of AE match," and so I think a lot of your potential enjoyment will stem from what sort of in-ring action you prefer (or can tolerate). I tend to like the over-the-top insanity and ubiquitous overbooking of the AE main event scene (although I'm glad it didn't become the standard going forward) so I can forgive this match is ostensible flaws and just sit back and enjoy.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Nah. Hardy's best match was against Angle in TNA a couple of years ago. Incredible stuff. I know Seabs loves it even more than me. I went around ****3/4, he went the full ***** and is considering it to be a GOAT match.


Just watched the match. *TRUE GOAT*

Finisher count:
Twist of Fate: 4 (1 on the outside)
Swanton: 3 (1 on the outside)
Angle Slam: 3 (1 off the top rope)
Ankle Lock: 4 mins total

Match result: No contest


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Just watched the match. *TRUE GOAT*
> 
> Finisher count:
> Twist of Fate: 4 (1 on the outside)
> ...


Wow, never seen those kinda of stats for the match before. Upping my rating to the full ***** now. What a fucking masterpiece that match is.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

We being serious? Do I really need to track this match down or am I clearly missing some pretty thick sarcasm?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its possibly the worst match I've ever witnessed. AVOID AVOID AVOID AVOID.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Phew, OK. Got me a bit worried there for a moment.

In other news, agreed on your rating for Final Four '97. That match doesn't seem to get as much discussion as it should (or maybe I've just been gone for too long).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Just watched the match. *TRUE GOAT*
> 
> Finisher count:
> Twist of Fate: 4 (1 on the outside)
> ...


Is that the legit finisher count? If so...holy shit. :lmao

That sums up most of my feelings on quite a few Angle matches.

Edit: Big fan of the Final Four match, although I haven't watched it in years.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Legit count. I left out the various other acts, mostly moonsault misses, swanton misses (yes there were those too), whispers in the wind, frog splashes, SUPLEX SUPLEX SUPLEX, powerbombs etc.

Hardy attempted like 6 swantons in the match. If it didn't work the first 5 times, TRY TRY AGAIN.

Not a fan of Final-4. Just bores me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jesus. :lmao

Thinking about watching it now just for some laughs but it may be too long of a match for that.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Agreed w/HOL on Final Four. Still a decent match though.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

That Hardy's Swanton on the outside was fucking SICK, I can't believe Kurt continued to make stunts for 20 more minutes after that, because he got 2-3 ribs broken. Kurt is a fucking cyborg.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Just watched the match. *TRUE GOAT*
> 
> Finisher count:
> Twist of Fate: 4 (1 on the outside)
> ...


Don't forget the amazing selling in that match. Angle and Hardy did such a great job in looking hurt that they continued to do finishers at a fast pace.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It might just be me, but am I the only person here that would put this match as the WWE's TV MOTY for 2011? Considering how green and generally boring these guys' characters and personalities are/were at the time, it really is one of the best television matches I've seen in a long time and definitely the best match on Superstars since it's reincarnation in 2009, with only the memorable Drew/Masters match coming close. Your thoughts on this match, guys?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That six man tag is legit as fuck. Can't even count how many times I've watched it and the superplex spot still gets me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

+ *1/2 to original rating just for the opening Dougie.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> It might just be me, but am I the only person here that would put this match as the WWE's TV MOTY for 2011? Considering how green and generally boring these guys' characters and personalities are/were at the time, it really is one of the best television matches I've seen in a long time and definitely the best match on Superstars since it's reincarnation in 2009, with only the memorable Drew/Masters match coming close. Your thoughts on this match, guys?


Hm, interesting. I have Orton v Rhodes as 2011 TV MOTY. I shall give that a watch.


KingCal said:


> Its possibly the worst match I've ever witnessed. AVOID AVOID AVOID AVOID.


Oh, I was wondering :lmao


Huganomics said:


> Jericho/HHH LMS FL 2000 - ***3/4
> Rock/Angle/HHH SS 2000 - ***1/2
> Taker/Bret/Vader/Austin FF 97 - ***1/4


FL00 ****3/4
SS00 ***

Also Cena/Umaga ****1/2


The Lady Killer said:


> Is Orton really the 2nd most successful star of the era though?


No...


----------



## Felpent (Jun 11, 2012)

How do you guys rate Survivor Series 03 Team Austin vs Team Bischoff match?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

***1/2

Really like the HBK stuff in it but last time I watched I didn't enjoy as much as I originally did.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

***3/4

Love the ending, and Orton checking out Kiebler as they're making the entrance always gets me :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd probably go around ***3/4. Was a little disappointed with it when I saw it due to the hype it gets. HBK was good at the end, but nothing spectacular imo. Was expecting some ****1/2 masterpiece or something lol.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

****1/2
One of my favorite SS elimination matches of all time, fantastic storytelling throughout.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

I hate you guys for making me believe that there was a ***** singles match with Jeff Hardy.

Damien Sandow *****

**** for the SS Eric/Austin bout


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm tempted to watch Jeff/Angle based off how ridiculous it sounds.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

Same. 
Guys what was the ladder match on ecw that involved sabu and it was just SO bad you have to watch it. I think it was a number 1 contenders match for the Big show's title... but i can't remember who he faced...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Sgt. Pepper said:


> Same.
> Guys what was the ladder match on ecw that involved sabu and it was just SO bad you have to watch it. I think it was a number 1 contenders match for the Big show's title... but i can't remember who he faced...


RVD. Lots of botches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It was RVD.

edit FUCK


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

GOAT


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I have to watch Angle/Hardy later today. Just have to. 

Also had to dig around and see if I could find Seabs' review of it. 



Spoiler: o



Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy - No Surrender 2010

Fucking hell. I went into it knowing I wouldn't like it because I read of all the stupid TNA shenanigans in the match but a lot of people had been saying up to that point it was a brilliant wrestling match. Fuck off btw. This is legit one of the worst matches I have ever had to sit through.

There's literally zero structure or logic to the match. They waste no time getting the mindfuck started. Angle hits a vicous powerbomb on Jeff which they make a huge deal about yet Kurt stands around for like a minute before locking in a sleeper. No pinfall btw afterwards. Fuck. Hardy starts off as he means to go on by botching a dropkick in the corner. Jeff looks a complete tool with that stupid gear and god awful facepaint he has on. He looks legit stoned and without a care in the world for this match. There's another hysterical moment soon after where Jeff supposedly counters an angle slam into a arm drag but he doesn't arm drag Kurt at all. Kurt being the pro he is decides despite Jeff not touching he'll flip over anyway. Brilliant.

They couldn't have possibly killed the idea of a finisher anymore in this one either. Jeff hits a Twist Of Fate on the outside to zero reaction. I dont think the commentators even reference it. Tazz is fucking awful btw. There's so many ex WWE guys in this company that so obviously dont care what they're doing here. Tazz is a goofball at the best of times when he's trying but he's unbearable from what I've heard in TNA which luckily isn't too much. Tenay is Tenay. Just as bad. Jeff then follows this up with a swanton to the outside from the top rope. They get back in the ring as if nothing has happened. Jeff hits another TOF in the ring followed by not one but two swantons off the top rope. Kurt kicks out of every single one. At this point Jeffrey decides lets go for yet another swanton. Kurt gets his knees up this time. Why couldn't he have done that first time around instead of hurting my brain and making Jeff's finisher look like dog shit. Jeff made them look like dog shit enough on his own to be fair. Angle hits a load of angle slams in between all this too which Jeff kicks out of every one. The number of TOF's swantons and angle slams in the match must be in double figures by the end of the match. Not to mention the most ridicoulos ankle lock segment ever. Must have been a complete 5 minutes that Kurt had the ankle lock on Jeff. Jeff never once thinks of selling any offense btw. Neither does Kurt naturally. Total mindfuck.

So after this retarded segment in the match they randomly decide the match has a 20 minute time limit that nobody was told about beforehand. If the match was so important and there needed to be a winner then why was there a time limit in the first place? Angle after having Jeff in the ankle lock for a ludacris amount of time decides to scrap that idea and goes back to working over the ankle, which he didn't even bother doing in the first 20 minutes btw. This 5 minute spell consisted of basically nothing besides Bischoff and Dixie looking bored and nervous at ringside because the match went overtime. I'm clueless as to why Dixie got so much screen time during this match despite contributing niltch to the match. So then we have another 5 minutes. Why not just say this match will carry on until there's a winner because there must be a winner and a loser? Oh no, that requires logic! Fuck me. For some reason out of nowhere Jeff decides it's his turn to have an offense segment. No ankle selling btw of course. He bashes Angle's head onto the steps and to be frank nobody notices what is happening until Kurt gets back in the ring after blading and people realise, oh something must have happened. The biggest mindfuck of the whole shenanigan comes up next when Bischoff decides after ordering not one spell of overtime but two that because Kurt has a minor gash on his head he cant continue. Kurt obviously doesn't sell his injury and acts as normal walking around the ring like it's the start of the match. I dont think Jeff knows what is happening. 

I'm calling this the worst match I have ever seen. No structure, no meaning, no storyline advancement, no quality wrestling and absolutely no logic. Literally everything about this is awful. The fans starting numerous "This is Awesome" chants as well as not responding to any of the finishers was terrific. TNA fans literally give every match a "This Is Awesome" chant. Basically if you pull out a big spot you'll get that chant. It is actually worse than the stupid canadian fans using that chant for a ** match at a DGUSA event. Mind boggling. The commentary is abysmal. Tazz makes no sense and the both of them failt to pick up on the majority of what happens in the match. There is no begining, middle and end to the match. Saying they did a load of moves with no meaning has never ever been more true to a match than this. A TOF/Swanton combo on the outside was a passing gesture, as was Kurt using the ankle lock for 5 minutes. Jeff was out of his mind and his head wasn't in the state let alone the arena. Dixie and Bischoff came off as morons that cant run a company. Not in the way they booked the match but they came off like that on screen. Truly brilliant. The match led to nothing either btw. They stressed the importance of having a winner yet they end the match because of a cut. A very minor one at that. I'm pretty sure they did the same match the week after on iMPACT with no winner again. 

Quite the spectacle.

DUD


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This match actually sounds fucking hilarious. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On paper it SOUNDS hilarious, but fuck, I've never felt so pissed off and angry at a wrestling match in my entire life. It was after that match that I decided to just stop really discussing Angle (and why I think he's a terrible pro wrestler 99% of the time).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That review was awesome :lmao

I have to watch this now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looked up my review of the match too lol:



Spoiler: noooooo



*Kurt Angle Vs Jeff Hardy - TNA No Surrender 2010*

Early going is a bit of a train wreck. Angle hits a sick looking powerbomb on Hardy, and Hardly looks to be OUT. So what does Angle do? Walk around the ring for a minute, then picks up Hardy for a sleeper. Seems Angle is retarded at both throwing out moves for the hell of it, and taking things slow :lmao.

Then the train wreck continues with some odd looking spots, botches, fans not reacting to shit, and the structure of the entire match.

I'll try to explain those a little deeper. Firstly, there is a spot where it LOOKS like Hardy hits a twist of fate, but the fans don't react to it, and neither do the commentators. Was just... weird. Then Kurt gets up and goes for an Angle Slam, which Hardy reverses into an arm drag... only Hardy lets go and Kurt ends up doing a flip on his own for no reason :lmao.

Then Jeff and Angle both hit their finishers (TOF and Angle Slam), and the fans react like someone just spat in their faces. Odd considering a few minutes ago they were chanting like crazy for both men.

From here, despite the match falling pretty fucking flat, they seem to go into a finishing stretch. Just kinda came out of nowhere. We get Angle using a sleeper on Hardy, then some finisher kick outs, then come crazy shit (Swanton off the ropes to the outside, which looked rather epic and I think its what injured Angle). Its like they are trying to make the match EPICS, and failing beyond miserably. Doesn't help that the match has only been going 10 MINUTES so far.

Does Jeff know how to hit a Swanton any more? He's done it about 3 time by this point (2 in a row btw, which Angle kicked out of...) and he keeps landing on Angle's ribs seemingly without protecting him. And of course, typical Angle, after taking all these Swantons, he gets up and hits an Angle Slam, and Hardy kicks out.

With what these guys are doing, and how the commentators are talking, I feel like this match should have gone on for about 30 minutes by now, but nope. 15. Are they intentionally trying to make a match feel twice as long as it is? I just don't get what the fuck they are doing. I was hoping that this match might actually turn out to be good, despite the super high ratings from TNA fans. Happens every time. I hear a TNA match was awesome. I go into it expecting it to be good still, but not on the level TNA fans hold it on. Then I end up wondering what is wrong with TNA fans for thinking this shit is great, and what is wrong with me for watching this shit time and time again.

Then we get a 5 minute period with Angle applying the Ankle Lock to Jeff, and the time running out before Jeff can tap (because 5 minutes in an Ankle Lock doesn't hurt too much  ). Oh look, match is restarting.

Oh, its only continuing for 5 minutes. Lets see if they can have a good match this time around...

So... instead of going back to the Ankle Lock, Angle decides that 5 minutes in the Ankle Lock isn't enough... and decides to work over the Ankle instead. Does Kurt even have a finishing move any more? Because they don't seem to work as often as they should.

Why is Jeff going to the top rope? He has a fucked up Ankle. He can barely stand. Fucking moron.

:lmao and we are right back to Angle's finishers being completely meaningless. When Jeff tries to climb the ropes, and gets caught, Angle hits a SUPER Angle Slam. And Hardy still kicks out!!!

5 minutes pass, and nobody is the winner. Just declare them both losers and be done with it, because this shit is... SHIT.

Dammit. 5 more minutes, because we NEED to have a winner. Angle gets busted open, gets another Ankle Lock in, and the time runs out AGAIN. Guess its another restart since we NEED to have a winner.

Oh, wait, no. Angle's cut is too deep, and the match is a no contest. So much for NEEDING a winner. Fuck, TNA can't even be consistent during the same match!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Fuck this pile of shit. Its 5 minutes of sloppy pointless bullshit, followed by 25 minutes of perhaps the WORST big finishing stretch I have ever seen. And the restarts? Pointless and shit. The conclusion of the match? Bullshit. They kept saying how much they NEEDED a winner, and then decide not to have one. At least that part is right, neither man is a winner in this match because they both blew.

*Rating: ARGH*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ROFL, I really have to check out that Angle/Hardy match. :lmao


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

this is awesome

this is awesome

broken fricking neck


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

That Angle/Hardy NS 2010 match was awesome ****1/2(Meltzer gave it ****1/4 at that time IIRC). They had another great match on Impact the week after that.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yes. Yes, they did.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Angle/Hardy from this year's Victory Road is a MOTYC, I'm not afraid to express my opinions, it was an excellent match. ******

But Lockdown was crap.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

I actually really liked Angle/Jeff from No Surrender 2010, but I understand why most people here downright hate it. I need to give it another watch though to see if it holds up for me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say Jeff Hardy hasn't had one "must see" or "required viewing" match since his return to TNA in 2010. He's been absolute bullshit, IMO. Which is a shame because 2008-2009 in the WWE he put on a fair few damn good matches against the likes of Umaga, Randy, Triple H and CM Punk. Hmm...


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I really enjoyed Hardy's match against Angle this past year at Victory Road as well.
__________________
*2005 PPV Main Event wrap up

Quick Thoughts: Survivor Series tag was fun as hell, still one of my favorites and Orton/Taker HIAC was a solid match that didn't quite reach that MOTYC it could have but close.

Batista, Orton, Mysterio, JBL & Lashley vs. Michaels, Masters, Carlito, Big Show & Kane (5-on-5 Survivor Series Elimination Match- Smackdown vs. RAW)
WWE Survivor Series 2005*

-One of favorite SS matches of all time (Partly because I was here live). An absolutely incredible 3 month build between the brands topped with a good match. The commentary teams trashing each other is hilarious, brand loyalty at its finest. Lots of good back and forth between the teams and no one overstayed their welcome, each elimination was great, adding a layer of drama to the match and by the end it could've gone either way. Orton RKO's Shawn for the finish and make it 3-0 in Survivor Series tag match (They should've made an Orton streak out of this), finally topped with an epic Taker return. This match had a lot of similarities to the much better classic 2003 SS RAW match, but this was still a good, fun match on its own merit.

*Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell Match)
WWE Armageddon 2005*

-Solid HIAC and 9 month feud ender between Orton and Taker. There was some good storytelling here with Taker wanting to go anal on Orton but Orton trying to keep it a regular match. Taker controls the flow of the match for the most part while Orton provided the heel offense. Bob Orton interference, Steel Steps, Splash through the table and more. Finish comes when Taker drops the Ortons with a pair of tombstones. Overall, a good HIAC match more or less dominated by Taker.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah, that Raw/SD SurSer tag was really fun, and Orton shitting bricks afterward when Taker returned was hilarious.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Randomly watched Hardy/Edge from Summerslam 2005 the other day, can't recall seeing it that many times since I watched it live back in 2005 and back then I hated it and thought it was god-awful.

Turns out its actually one of the better sub 10 minute matches in company history, both men throw some excellent punches and really get across the hatred in a chaotic brawl. Hardy's bump off of the spear was brutal as was the drop onto the ring post and subsequent beatdown by Edge. Hardy's selling was flat out astounding and really got the finish over tremendously, Matt's often overlooked in the grandscheme of things but in 05-07 he was a really good worker capable of some great matches when paired with the ideal partner on TV or PPV. He throws some really great punches here (something again he usually doesn't get enough credit for) and bumps big, two key aspects necessary for a hate filled brawl. Edge was also really good with his strikes, including a headbutt which was a totally unexpected move from him, especially with the issues I generally have with his offence.

I understand the dispute over the finish, but to me it was the right call. Firstly the feud was aimed at pushing Edge onto the next level as a heel, and seeing that sort of beatdown not only made him appear more vicious and credible, but also got him more heat given everyone back then wanted Matt to kick his arse. Secondly, the fact it was under 10 minutes meant the pace was far more chaotic and it really added to the feud that the match could end in that fashion, rather than a dragged out 15 minute match which wouldn't have served the same purpose. Thirdly, Matt's subsequent revenge in the Cage Match felt all the more earned on the back of this match, and his booking in the Ladder Match on Raw made him look as good as he could in defeat (what with it being a glorified Handicap match by the end).

I do however appreciate seeing Matt lose in such fashion could be argued as killing some of his momentum, but personally I found it a better finish considering how short and violent the match was, where a flash finish works much better to put over the feud and hatred in the story.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Rock316AE said:


> That Angle/Hardy NS 2010 match was awesome ****1/2(*Meltzer gave it ****1/4 at that time IIRC*). They had another great match on Impact the week after that.


well, thats a rational and well thought out argument

im convinced

suck it cal and SEABS


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its not the first time I've said this on this forum, but why on earth do people feel the need to cite Meltzer's opinion on a match as proof of its quality? I have no issue if someone just feels the need to point out whether he rates a match highly/negatively, but the people who seem to try to use him liking a match as evidence it is 'good' have always dumbfounded me. His vast wrestling knowledge doesn't give him a more credible viewpoint as to what is good/bad, like any other wrestling fan he rates a match on the basis of whether it appeals to his personal stylistic preference.

Meltzer giving Angle/Hardy ****1/4 is no more evidence of it being good than Cal/Seabs citing it as a DUD (though I'm in full agreement with these two on the match), its all subjective at the end of the day and there isn't anyway around it. 

I can see why some people may enjoy Angle/Hardy like I understand why a lot of people like Angle's 'EPIC' matches, though like many others who look for something beyond the moves being done in the ring there was next to nothing to appreciate about that match. And christ the follow up on IMPACT damn nearly topped the No Surrender match for shittyness, if only for Kurt's most famously stupid sequence I can ever recall seeing:

He has Hardy in the ankle lock, but Hardy manages to fight out before any real damage can be done due to it still being relatively early in the match, Kurt then proceeds to counter a Hardy counter and hits not one, but two Angle Slams in a row and Hardy kicks out of both with the collective enthusiasm of himself and the commentators like it was two bodyslams. Kurt, having now weakened Hardy considerably but not having won the match, now circles Hardy for what seems like an eternity and proceeds to lock on a sleeper hold, rather than go for the ankle lock like he attempted 90 seconds or so before.

I honestly nearly just turned the match off right there and then tbh, I was that shocked by just how non-sensical that whole setup and sequence was.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Redead said:


> well, thats a rational and well thought out argument
> 
> im convinced
> 
> suck it cal and SEABS


:lmao Can't argue with that. Haven't even watched it but I'm gonna throw a **** on it to look conservative.

Serious post:

Drew McIntyre vs Alex Riley - Superstars 8/16 - ***

Really fun match for the time it got. McIntyre is still a genius in the ring and Riley improved.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I just spotted your thread on that match in the NXT section *Brye*, in the process of watching a film but I'll give it a watch straight after. More Mcintyre I can get the better these days, I pray to christ that rumour HHH is a fan of him is true. I'm not even arsed if he ever gets a main event run, just so long as he can settles into a comfortable position and has regular matches on TV (I've said forever he needs to be given an Arn Anderson/William Regal midcard title run more than anyone in the company) and I'll be satisfied. I will absolutely lose my shit if they release him before some of the utter tosspots on the roster.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I don't have a problem with McIntyre just getting a push where he's on TV and relevant. He doesn't have to shoot up to being a main eventer but he deserves to be relevant.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't want to believe in a company who promote Sin Cara and Miz over Mcintyre. Guy is legit perfect to work that gate-keeper role they've always seemed to crave and just work the midcard and put on consistently good matches. Still amazes me that some people call him boring and dull in the ring when he's one of the most unique and creative wrestlers they have, and you can usually guarantee seeing at least one original and never before seen spot in a match of his.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Unforgiven 2003:*

La Resistance/Rob Conway vs Dudley Boyz - **3/4
Test vs Scott Steiner - **
Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2
Trish Stratus/Lita vs Molly Holly/Gail Kim - **1/2
Kane vs Shane McMahon - ***1/4
Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Rob Van Dam - ***
Al Snow/Jonathan Coachman vs Jerry Lawler/JR - 1/2* (So awful it had me rolling all over my bed laughing. This is Lawler/Cole before Lawler/Cole, lol.)
HHH vs Goldberg - ***1/4


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> *Angle/Hardy from this year's Victory Road is a MOTYC*, I'm not afraid to express my opinions, it was an excellent match. ******
> 
> But Lockdown was crap.


Meh, it's not as bad as the No Surrender match but the finishing stretch loses me very easily. Kurt no sells like 3 twist of fates (gets up straight after one of them to hit Jeff with the top rope belly to belly) and one or two swantons to get the roll up. Opening exchanges are okay actually, Angle does some alright ankle work for once before the match falls apart.

Anyway:

_Lord Steven Regal vs Fit Finlay - WCW Uncensored 1996

_WHY haven't I seen this until now. Finlay comes out sporting possibly the greatest moustache and mullet in existance and proceeds to beat the shit out of Regal the second he gets in the ring, and for about the next 19 minutes it's an absolute brutal match. Nearly all the opening pinfalls have a forearm raking the face, followed by some strikes to the nose afterwards (there's one where Regal just mounts Finlay and tries to break his face). Every hold has something going to keep it interesting and fresh and there's so much in this match which just looks legit painful. There's one spot where Finlay hurls Regal into the corner and as he stumbles out he goes for something like a back body drop but just throws Regal halfway across the ring. Pace never really lets up either and just a ton of fun to watch.

*****1/4*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its an excellent match and up there with Judgement Day 2006 as the best match out of the Benoit/Regal/Finlay combo in WCW and WWE (I had it #6 on my WCW Ballot). Really nasty and violent match with some insane strikes but like you mentioned all fought for and with meaning instead of aimless stiffness for the sake of being stiff. Everything is well earned and not given up, and fuck finish aside the match is flawless. There's that one punch as well shortly before the finish which just looked HIDEOUS: I think it was Regal striking Finlay but I could be wrong.

Also if you want a really fun and easy to sit through match, watch Malenko/Norman Smiley from Saturday Night 1997, its on youtube and only goes 8 minutes at best. I'm as apathetic as they come towards Malenko but he's perfect in this setting, they unleash some excellent counters that look straight out of the World of Sport playbook (especially from Smiley) and everything feels like its earned and not given up too easily which is often a common complaint I have with perfunctory matwork. Absolutely kicking myself I never watched it before submitting a top 100 WCW matches ballot, as I seriously would have had it in the bottom 25.

Also WCW have some seriously underrated stuff from this time, usually Nitro or Saturday Night:

Lord Steven Regal vs Psicosis, Nitro 12/16/1996
Lord Steven Regal vs Sting, Great American Bash 1996
Arn Anderson & Vader vs Stars n Stripes, Saturday Night 04/15/1995
Vader vs Ricky Steamboat, Human Cage Match, Saturday Night 10/16/1993
Dustin Rhodes vs Bunkhouse Buck, Bunkhouse Match, Spring Stampede 1994
Eddie Guerrero vs Shinjiro Ohtani, Starrcade 1995
Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs Randy Savage & Hulk Hogan, Nitro 01/08/1996
Ric Flair vs The Giant (Big Show), Nitro 03/25/1996
Eddie Guerrero vs Ric Flair, Nitro 1996
WARGAMES, Fawlbrawl 1994
Steven Regal vs. Dean Malenko, Nitro 12/23/1996
Vader vs The Boss, Spring Stampede 1994
Benoit v Jericho, Nitro 12/30/1996 (bossy sprint match)
Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero, Saturday Night 11/18/1995
Lord Steven Regal vs Ultimo Dragon, Slamboree 1997
Lord Steven Regal vs Tony Pena, Nitro 11/25/1996
Rey Mysterio vs Lord Steven Regal, Nitro 02/10/1997
Lord Steven Regal v Larry Zbyzsko, Saturday Night 05/28/1994

All of that is stuff that doesn't usually get brought up, but each match made my WCW ballot and is awesome in its own way.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Never heard of this Regal/Finlay WCW match. Will definitely check it out. I miss 2006 Finlay on SD!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i actually remember seeing that angle/jeff lockdown match. its the last wrestling match i saw before giving up on the sport

for the first segment, i really liked it. kurt was a huge dick, bullied jeff, showed off, hit zero big moves and just kept wearing him down. and then one second, they just fucked logic and hit around 100 swantons and angle slams and twists of fate and then it just endlessly descended into a barrage of finishers while the crowd chanted 'this is awesome'

i just sat there thinking, i actually liked the slow part. and then when the finishers came, i just stopped giving a fuck. i knew how worthless those moves were at that point, even though from what i recall, the match wasnt over anything. they werent even really feuding.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Never heard of this Regal/Finlay WCW match. Will definitely check it out. I miss 2006 Finlay on SD!


2006 Smackdown is probably the best year for either brand this decade, though Raw 2004 and the endlessly great Evolution vs The World tags run it pretty close. Finlay was the MVP of the year as well, everything from his debut match against Matt Hardy to the 2 Benoit TV matches and the Judgement Day PPV match as well as his matches with Taker, Regal and Mysterio were all golden. Everything he does looks vicious and has meaning to it, and despite it not being a wholly popular opinion on this forum I find Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal to absolutely blow away any Benoit/Angle match.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

What are you talking about Redead, Kurt was CLEARLY mad at Jeff because his son looked up to Jeff instead of Kurt and Kurt thought Jeff was junkie trash.

I thought they made that story obvious in their matches :kurt

Also, cheers Segunda, I'll definitely try to catch some of those matches, the Regal ones for sure (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Regal/Finlay really is awesome, probably a top 5 WCW match of the 90s, and they both don't get the love they deserve for their WCW runs. They have a ton of really good matches that just go completely under the radar with every kind of opponent. 

Also, Finlay's moustache.



Segunda Caida said:


> Also if you want a really fun and easy to sit through match, watch Malenko/Norman Smiley from Saturday Night 1997, its on youtube and only goes 8 minutes at best. I'm as apathetic as they come towards Malenko but he's perfect in this setting, they unleash some excellent counters that look straight out of the World of Sport playbook (especially from Smiley) and everything feels like its earned and not given up too easily which is often a common complaint I have with perfunctory matwork. Absolutely kicking myself I never watched it before submitting a top 100 WCW matches ballot, as I seriously would have had it in the bottom 25.


I was watching random WCW B-Shows recently and came to this match. Or if not, I came to a Malenko v Smiley match that was fun as hell. I'm convinced Malenko is way, way better at working shortish matches with Below-His-Level guys than long "epic mat classics" with Guerreros and Benoits. Has a lot of short, fun TV matches with Liger, Ohtani, Rey, and hell, Malenko v DISCO INFERNO from BATB 96 rules. I've never watched his match with Scotty 2 Hotty and should.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

No worries, the Regal matches are all terrific. Bar the Sting GAB match nearly all the rest of them are sub 10 minutes but packed with great strikes and holds from Regal, as well as some great build to the high spots especially in the Psicosis match where they do a terrific job in highlighting Regal's dominance in the mat exchanges and make Psicosis' high flying arsenal his sole hope of winning the TV title.

Sting match is insane just for how much offence Regal gets in considering his standing in WCW at the time, Sting's always a great FIP especially in that portion of his career before the gimmick change, and he does a great job at making Regal look like a monster and times his comeback impeccably.

If I had to pimp just one match out of that list however, it would be Savage/Hogan vs Flair/Arn. Insane TV tag match packed with wonderful elements of the southern tag formula, including a seriously all time wonderful transition spot and Arn just having the absolute best 'OH SHIT' reaction when all his offence against Hogan proves fruitless. Savage is also a really good FIP and hits maybe his all time best double axe handle going off of my hazy memory.



Yeah1993 said:


> I was watching random WCW B-Shows recently and came to this match. Or if not, I came to a Malenko v Smiley match that was fun as hell. I'm convinced Malenko is way, way better at working shortish matches with Below-His-Level guys than long "epic mat classics" with Guerreros and Benoits. Has a lot of short, fun TV matches with Liger, Ohtani, Rey, and hell, Malenko v DISCO INFERNO from BATB 96 rules. I've never watched his match with Scotty 2 Hotty and should.


Agreed, he's always had the holds and clean execution, but its usually putting it all together or stretching it out for a considerable period of time in the middle of the match which has been his problem. Putting him in sub 10 minute matches where he can just run through some slick and hard fought mat exchanges eliminates all his problems when working 15 minutes and longer.

He was legit awesome though in the Spokane House Show match against Eddie in 1997, I mean Eddie was sensational with all his heel sctick and playing to the crowd, but Malenko really brought the intensity that was needed in his offence and wasn't just along for the ride. The spot where Eddie goes to sucker punch Malenko with his back turned to him only to drop to his knees and offer a handshake as he sees Malenko turn around is seriously one of the best comedy heel spots I can recall, and it saddens me no-one is likely to replicate it soon.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't like him in any Eddie match too much. Thought he just blows off the leg work and he has no idea how to work a babyface comeback. I watched Malenko/Rey from Germany and THAT shit was good. Just kept over little Rey and found various ways to stretch and torque him every which way. Wish I'd watched it before the deadline because it may have a got a vote from me. Might be the best Malenko performance I've seen and one of his top 3 matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everyone should watch Regal's WCW TV Title run. Epic, epic stuff.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I had a similar issue with him for nearly all of their matches, but that Spokane match proved to be the exception. I do think the House Show setting provided for a more relaxed atmosphere and allowed Eddie to really play up to the crowd and have them wanting to rip his head off, which only added to the entertainment value.

Its a shame Malenko struggled for whatever reason in the longer PPV matches, because his technique and holds definitely should have served as the basis for some very fun matches. I guess this is where guys like Eddie just appear noticeably better with their acting ability and character work only adding to their already immense technical work.



KingCal said:


> Everyone should watch Regal's WCW TV Title run. Epic, epic stuff.


AMEN, his style was just crazy good in how he adapted and made the sub 5 minute matches feel excellent as well as the PPV bouts. Steamboat, B Badd, Zybszko, Mysterio, Ultimo, Psicosis etc, all wonderful. That Tony Pena match might actually be the least talked about, but christ do they get a lot of stuff in for a not even 5 minute match. Regal throws some of his most vicious strikes I've seen and they work some beautifully slick mat exchanges with Pena (one of the Villanos) being exceptionally handy in hanging on the mat. Transition to the finish was also stupendous, ended up as my #99 or #100 in the end.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Robert Griffin III said:


> “I watched a little bit of WCW and WWF, at the time,” Griffin said. “I was a huge Goldberg fan when he had that long winning streak, which I think was ended by Kevin Nash when he was fighting for the title. I was a huge fan of Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold Steve Austin. *One of my earliest memories was [Michaels] beating The Rock early in his career*, and then Shawn Michaels got beat by Stone Cold, which kind of ended the first part of his career, with that Stone Cold Stunner.”


Does RGIII know something we don't or is he just making that up? :argh:

For those who don't know, RGIII is a pro football player coming into the NFL this year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I looked up WWF show results to see if they matched up in 1997 where Rocky was feuding with Shawn's buddy HHH, but there doesn't seem to be a single match where they were even in the same ring.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What is everyone's PPV of the year for 2002 and 2005? Just curious.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

2002 - Summerslam easily
2005 - Vengeance


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2002 : Summerslam
2005 : Vengeance

Completely agree with SMIG , both matches have the MOTY's for their respective years IMO.

I'm watching so many random WWE Championship matches it's ridiculous, and I know I haven't been talking a whole lot about it, but I just got done watching the Batista-Cena trilogy from 2010, and I feel that it's a really nice/great/FUN set of matches with some real psychology in them. Some of Batista's best performances, as he is just INTENSE in these matches. Not gonna say a whole lot about them other than that the LMS from Extreme Rules is legit *********** simply because of Batista's line to a fan "I HATE YOU TOO!" . It's honestly one of my instant favorite moments ever as the first time I saw the match was today. Heel Dave had so much intensity, he was fucking awesome on the mic and he wasn't a slouch in the ring at that point. I really wish he would come back and work against a guy like Ziggler who could bump around the ring for him, or a guy like Bryan... Four star potential right there. 

Watched Taker-Hogan SS 91 earlier and it almost put me to sleep (It's not BAD per se, it's just a little tedious of a watch IMO) , so I decided to forgo the TTIT rematch for later and watch the ROTT match vs Mankind which I haven't seen in a LONG ass time. Hopefully I enjoy as much as somebody like Cal. Soon going to start posting more thoughts on these things 

EDIT : RG3 actually said that ? Wow, I hope his football I.Q. is a tad higher than his Wrestling I.Q. Still think Luck is twice the prospect that Griffin is, despite the NFL/ESPN hype machine surrounding a guy like Griffin. Seems to me like he's a less physically talented version (shorter, less strength) than your boy Cam.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/produ...Pain-Collector-s-Edition-Blu-ray-2-Discs.html

Looks actually quite epic.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow, I guess the benefits on doing a comp for a guy with a two year career is you can be at least somewhat comprehensive. Fucked it toward the end though. v Eddie was left off for the Goldberg match and unless I read things wrong the Cena match is a blu-ray only.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Looks like I'll definitely be getting the blu ray since the Cena match is on there. Really wish the Summerslam match with Angle was on there too, but I'll certainly take the Ironman. No clue why they put the piece of shit against Goldberg on, and what happened to the Stretcher match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> Rey Mysterio vs. Brock Lesnar
> SmackDown 11th December, 2003


BUYING.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Looks like I'll definitely be getting the blu ray since the Cena match is on there. Really wish the Summerslam match with Angle was on there too, but I'll certainly take the Ironman. No clue why they put the piece of shit against Goldberg on, and what happened to the Stretcher match?


Indeed, since I don't own the original I was hoping the Stretcher match would be on there, oh well I'll still be grabbing it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've got the original so I'm not bothered about the Stretcher match lol. Agree that the SS match with Angle should have been on rather than the Iron Man since its already been released on Bluray recently. Will be picking the Bluray version of this set up one day. Surprised they didn't put the ER match with Cena on just the DVD version though, seems odd its not there. But ah well, Bluray FTW .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wish I had blu ray, would have been nice to have that Global Warning match too, also suprised at no Cena match on DVD, I was going to get ER on DVD anyways so at least that's something lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I hadn't bought a PS3 when I did just after christmas I'd still be with DVD's lol. Most use my PS3 gets these days is when I play Bluray movies on it. Cheaper than buying games . Wouldn't mind a bluray drive for my PC so I could copy them too, something else to add to my list of things to sell .


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

I popped in Breaking the Code DVD last night (Chris Jericho's DVD) and I decided to watch a few matches until I fell asleep. And one match definitely killed my tiredness at least until it ended.






Oh my god. Amazing fucking technical match. Everyone should watch this. I can't believe I never did all this time I've had this DVD. So fucking smooth, the chemistry, and everything. I liked how Eddie was playing the cocky/arrogant heel and Jericho the extremely goofy baby face who could do no wrong. LOL

The match reminded me of when Punk and D Bry wrestle and how fluid their moves look and whatnot.

Anyway. An extremely good watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that match, had it as my #20 when I did my top 100 WCW matches ever list.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Agreed that's an outstanding match, although its a total Eddie show for the most part due to his outstanding performance. This isn't to say Jericho does nothing, but Eddie's so incredible with his heel schtick and offence that you think he could have had this sort of a match with a number of WCW wrestlers at the time, even more evidence that Eddie might have been the best in the world for 1997.

EDIT: it was #34 on my WCW ballot.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Saw this one too






Good one.

I saw some similar moves in here that was in Jericho/Eddie match too. Like the shoulder lock. Really cool to see it back to back in matches that took place years apart.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I rated that Orton/HBK match after watching Unforgiven yesterday a couple of pages back. Excellent match and Orton's wrestling is getting better throughout the year. On most of his TV matches before it, he seems to randomly bust out moves without any build-up which made him look 'green' as they like to say. Here, with HBK, he manages to put on a much better match with a great heel victory.

Also I can't wait until I get to the December part of Smackdown in 2003. There's that Mysterio/Brock match which KingCal put over one page back, there's the Brock/Benoit match which I have never seen in it's entirety before and Benoit's push on a whole before his move to Raw.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I rated that Orton/HBK match after watching Unforgiven yesterday a couple of pages back. Excellent match and Orton's wrestling is getting better throughout the year. On most of his TV matches before it, he seems to randomly bust out moves without any build-up which made him look 'green' as they like to say. Here, with HBK, he manages to put on a much better match with a great heel victory.
> 
> Also I can't wait until I get to the December part of Smackdown in 2003. There's that Mysterio/Brock match which KingCal put over one page back, there's the Brock/Benoit match which I have never seen in it's entirety before and Benoit's push on a whole before his move to Raw.


How far are you now? That Benoit/Brock match is one of the best television matches I have ever seen. I remember there was a fantastic segment before the match where wrestlers backstage were betting on who would win that match. They really made the Benoit/Brock match a big deal at the time. A week later, I think the epic HBK/HHH match on RAW occurred as well. What a great time to be a wrestling fan.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Taking part in a Top 100 matches of the decade (2000-2009) poll for another forum, watched a bunch of Tajiri, Corino and Mysterio for it from ECW and WWE, here's some matches which are provisionally on my ballot:


*Tajiri v Rey Mysterio (c), Cruiserweight Championship, Smackdown 09/25/03*

Fully agreed with sterling here, excellent match building off of the first match 3 weeks prior with Tajiri now a full fledged heel. Excellent workover of the ribs by Tajiri with some sickening kicks and submissions, and Mysterio sells and builds his comeback like only he can. Once he manages to find a foothold in the match, he wastes no time in trying to unleash everything in his arsenal to put down Tajiri, who in turn manages to hang right with Mysterio with his trademark kicks as well as a Michinoku Driver. The teased mist early in the match and Tajiri's subsequent reaction to Mysterio blocking it was golden, seriously Tajiri is up there amongst the greats when it comes to facial expressions. Whole finish was superb with Mysterio near enough replicating the finish from their first match, but being caught with red mist due to the 2nd referee checking on the first and losing the title. It will do well overall to stay on the list, but its provisionally on the ballot.


*Rey Mysterio v Tajiri (c), Cruiserweight Championship, Smackdown 01/04/2004*

Going to be tough to decide whether this or the 9/25 match will make my final list (most likely won't vote for both by the end), but for now I'll say I just ever so slightly preferred this. Crowd are super hyped and Tajiri has henchmen which immediately gives us a Rey vs The World formula match, a match which usually delivers. Tajiri's workover of Rey's leg is superb, just continuous strikes and submissions including an awesome boston crab counter off of a Rey springboard. Finishing run is incredible with Mysterio pulling out everything he can but still selling the leg, loved him audibly having to change the setup to some of his signature offence to reflect the injury, the favourite of which was probably the wheelbarrow-bulldog spot. Actual finish with Tajiri taking out one of his henchmen and Mysterio taking care of the other before catching Tajiri with another similar finish dating back to their first match back in September 03 was also really satisfying and well worked. Also loved the spot where one of Tajiri's henchmen caught Mysterio mid 619 and interrupted the spot. Excellent match.


*Super Crazy v Tajiri, Mexican Death Match ECW 01/15/2000*

As pointed out by others, Crazy's initial comeback is the weak point of the match with him looking far too smooth and rapid for someone who's just eaten the beating he has, though I did like his momentary 'catching his breath' sell after the moonsault. Still Tajiri is amazing here, his tremendous facial expressions have been well documented in the past and they're on full show here to really compliment his already sadistic character. He just looks like a deranged psychopath and consequently him biting and spitting Crazy's blood from his mouth as well as other sick moments such as him driving a wedge into Crazy's mouth don't look gimmicky or tacky, but cruciially add to the hatred in the match. Tajiri's kicks were also amazing throughout, a couple really did look disgustingly stiff and I ADORED him kicking Crazy in the bollocks as the set up to a German. The sliding the chairs across the tables spot was incredibly unique and his taunting of the fans afterwards and in the opening really managed to shift their support fully onto Crazy which only made for a more enjoyable finish run. Tajiri mocking Crazy was also amazingly funny. Actual finish worked stupendously as well, Tajiri countering the inital powerbomb into the mist on the table was a great false finish, and that momentary pause to gloat ultimately costs him as Crazy catches him with a rapid desperation powerbomb through another table. Total Tajiri performance here, and an awesome one at that, but Crazy brought a couple of nice dives and had some much needed intensity when he had the chance to brawl with Tajiri. If it does stay on I imagine it will be almost entirely down to Tajiri's performance, but for now its a lock for my ballot.


*Steve Corino v Tajiri, ECW Hardcore Heaven 05/14/2000*

Oh man this was insane, Corino sets the tempo right from his pre match promo calling Tajiri a 'slant eyed bastard' and Tajiri just has this evil little grin and then hits a snap kick to Corino and immediately sets about punishing him. Tajiri's strikes always look terrific and that's exactly the same in this match, Corino to his credit sells each kick like death and looks terrific bumping around and on offence. Tajiri hits an absolutely disgusting brainbuster on the stage which opens up a monumental cut on Corino's forehead, and a few seconds later Tajiri has him in the tree of woe and Corino's hair turns completely red, amazing and disgusting visual. Tajiri has some really unique and terrific sadistic spots in this, the highlight probably being dropkicking the table into Corino's already split open forehead. Transition spot as sterling said looked overly telegraphed but that's a minor complaint, Corino really was amazing at eating such a beating but never looking close to being the face. Finish is really awesome with Tajiri misting Jack Victory before he can interfere and then unloading with a barrage of kicks and punches before finishing Corino off with a hellacious double stomp through a table. Corino was an excellent shitbag heel and Tajiri never disappoints as the small but incredibly tough SOB dishing out a psychotic beating, everybody was a winner here. Definitely will be on my ballot unless I come across an infinite amount of holy shit material.


*Super Crazy v Little Guido v Tajiri, TV Title, 04/14/2000*

Christ almighty, insane sprint heavy triple threat packed with some incredibly violent spots from Tajiri and doing away with the pitfalls of a standard triple threat thanks to Big Saul's constant involvement. Guido and Crazy bump big and play their part in this match, but it is a total Tajiri show. Nearly every burst of offence from him gets a 'holy shit' reaction from the crowd, and some of his kicks were just downright filthy and he's responsible for three of the best spots of the match: first one sees him trap Guido's head in a steel chair and just punt kick him square in the head, second sees him follow that up by dropkicking a table right into Guido's cut forehead and the third spot sees him foil Guido and Sal's master plan by handspringing and kicking a chair into Sal's head who then takes a great fat guy bump through a table. They worked a fantastic pace, had a wonderful performance from the maestro Tajiri, all bled and took some wonderful bumps and crucially did away with the repetitive nature of triple threats where one guy gets repeatedly thrown out of the ring and instead worked Big Saul into the match terrificly to get around that issue.



*Psicosis v Tajiri, ECW TV, 08/25/2000*

I don't think I enjoyed this quite as much as Andy, Sterling and Seabs, but its still a really good spotfest with some awesome bumps from Psicosis and some incredibly nasty strikes from Tajiri to paper over the your turn/my turn element that dominated the second half of the match. They do a shockingly good job at pacing the cliche stand off spots in the opening of the match, with the matwork being quite snug and looking unco-operative rather than being rolled through to set up the stand off spot. Tajiri's kicks were hellacious throughout and Psicosis did a terrific job at selling each one like death. Tajiri also lowblows Psicosis 3 times in the match, and any match where there's 3 separate instances of someone getting kicked in the balls will always sit well with me. The last lowblow looked particularly painful. Psicosis in typical fashion damn near killed himself on a ridiculous tope, the type that would make Sabu cringe in horror at the spill he takes onto the floor and into the steel chairs. Final barrage of kicks from Tajiri were all immaculate, the spinning back kick looked like it would have separated Psicosis' nose from the rest of his head if he wasn't covering his head from the prior kick. Very good match which as of now I'll vote for, but could easily see slipping off towards the end.


*Steve Corino v Shinya Hashimoto, NWA Battle Of The Belts, 10/31/01*

This only goes just over 10 minutes, so realistically this will do exceptionally well to stay on my list but I echo sterling's thoughts that this is a tremendously worked match. Its entirely designed to make Hashimoto look like the unstoppable monster he should be in this setting, and Corino does excellent in selling all of Hashimoto's offence like death whilst trying to work him in and out of holds to try and cut off the momentum. All the grappling and feeling out looked gritty and well earned, and Hashimoto constantly proving too much for the plucky Corino at every opportunity was a great running theme. I thought it actually built tremendously well to Corino desperately trying to fight back against Hashimoto in the strike exchange, but once again his valiant effort was no match for the power and execution of Hashimoto's strikes. There were some insanely stiff kicks towards the end of the match, especially when Corino was on his knees. Its a very smart and tremendously done match, but with the stiff competition I'd be very surprised if this match didn't fall off from my eventual top 100, its no dis-service to this match since there's barely anything I can criticise bar the morons in the crowd, its just that with the competition and high standards you associate with this poll trying to find 100 matches over 10 years which may have more to offer than this doesn't strike me as impossible compared to finding 100 matches greater than say Danielson/Strong from Vendetta.


*Brock Lesnar v Rey Mysterio, Smackdown 12/11/2003*

Excellent match again, these two near enough perfected the david v goliath formula (though Eddie/Show is still likely my favourite) and this match again evidenced that. Really extended opening with Brock taunting Mysterio only to be made a fool shortly after with Mysterio using the pace and speed to keep Brock off his feet, Lesnar to his credit also bumps like a loony to make Mysterio look as good as he can. Everytime Lesnar is on offence he looks capable of breaking Mysterio in half, and Mysterio again bumps insanely for every bit of Lesnar offence. Loved Mysterio's creativity on the outside to momentarily gain a small opening, and the nearfall off of the 619 was superbly done. Brock Lock looked disgusting and was a perfect finish to put Mysterio over in defeat. Great pace, nice character dynamic, great exchanges between both men's styles and a hot crowd, perfect.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How far are you now? That Benoit/Brock match is one of the best television matches I have ever seen. I remember there was a fantastic segment before the match where wrestlers backstage were betting on who would win that match. They really made the Benoit/Brock match a big deal at the time. A week later, I think the epic HBK/HHH match on RAW occurred as well. What a great time to be a wrestling fan.


Just finished September, so if I watch the remaining stuff at the same rate as I'm doing right now, I should be finished with the whole year in a couple of weeks. Been a fun year to watch and has completely taken my mind off how awful WWE is in the real world (a.k.a. the present). Luckily for me, I have a lot of other stuff that I'm going to watch from the past for my wrestling fix which includes the full years from 1997-2007 or 2008. 2003 was just a year I randomly picked up after seeing all the episodes available on youtube. Have not been disappointed either, specially with Smackdown ever since Kurt Angle returned from his neck injury.

And in relation to the post above mine, I watched that Tajiri/Mysterio match from Smackdown 25/9 earlier today. Another excellent match from two of the best workers throughout 03. The cruiserweights on Smackdown always bring it!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Smackdown in 2003 produced some incredible TV matches, Eddie & Tajiri vs WGTT (05/22), Angle vs Taker (one of the best TV matches in company history), Angle vs Lesnar Iron-Man, Benoit vs Lesnar, Mysterio vs Lesnar, Mysterio vs Tajiri, Hardy vs Mysterio. That, Raw 2004 and Smackdown 2006 are likely the top 3 years for TV matches this decade, 2006 SD would personally get my nod. Though Evolution vs The World on Raw as well as Benoit/HBK, Benoit/Orton the night after Summerslam and Orton/Edge after Vengeance were all of substantial quality.


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Really is a shame what SmackDown has become today.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*NWA - Battle of the Belts II*

*Bahamas Heavyweight Championship*
Tyree Pride (c) vs. Ron Slinker - 3/4*

*Florida Heavyweight Championship*
Kendall Windham (c) vs. Prince Iaukea - *1/2

*NWA World Junior Heavyweight Championship*
Denny Brown (c) vs. The White Ninja - **1/2

*Southern Heavyweight Championship*
Jesse Barr (c) vs. Lex Lugar - ***1/2

*$20,000 Bounty Challenge*
Bruiser Brody vs. Wahoo McDaniel - *

The Road Warriors & Blackjack Mulligan vs. Kevin Sullivan, Bob Roop, & Purple Haze - N/R

*NWA World Heavyweight Championship*
Ric Flair (c) vs. Barry Windham - ****1/2


*Overall: 6.5/10*​
- So we'll start off with the Jr. Heavyweight Title match. The White Ninja is of course a young Keiji Mutoh, which was awesome. Denny Brown I'd never heard of, but the guy impressed me. Seemed to have a lot of british influence in his wrestling, reminded me of Tom Prichard. But anyway, they had one of the few watchable matches of the night. It was filled with a lot of rest holds and the crowd chanted 'booooring' a few times, but I was enjoying what I was watching and you don't fucking boo Muta! But yeah, the match picked up greatly with the signature Muta sequence (handspring elbow, backbreaker, and MOONSAULT) that Denny actually kicked out of. So I was like shit, this is about to get good. And then Denny comes off the ropes with a cross body and gets caught by Muta, and the momentum takes Denny over the ropes, thus making the ref DQ the Ninja. Shitty, shitty ending. No reason why Brown couldn't have won clean against a guy I'm sure the crowd had never heard of.

- To my very bizarre surprise I LOVED Lugar/Barr. Yeah, they spelled it Lugar back then. Jesse Barr reminds me a lot of Terry Gordy and he was super over with the crowd but this was the Lugar show all the way. Awesome displays of power and dominance throughout the match, although Jesse would turn the tables every now and then and show he's got some muscle too. Simple formula with the heel dominating and the face making the late comeback, but what really drove it home for me was how they played out the exact same finish from their previous match where Jesse won the title, except this time in went in Lugar's favor. Plus it set up another rematch for the two and kept the heat on Sexy Lexy. Old school, slower paced formula that may not be for some but damn if I didn't enjoy it.

- So idk what it was about or who put it up but apparently there was a $20,000 bounty out for whoever could put Wahoo out of wrestling. This match was 5 minutes. A bloody 5 minute brawl that looked to be the start of what could've been an awesome spectacle, and then Brody just leaves completely with his manager. I haven't seen a whole lot from Brody but I swear 90% of what I have seen ends in a walkout or a brawl nowhere close to the ring. Another shitty ending. 

- The 6 man had a huge backstory and was billed as a really big grudge match, but it wasn't exactly a match. It was just another 5 minute brawl with blood and punching but I never heard any bell and it didn't resolve anything. Hey look, a shitty finish.

- Now let's get back to being positive. Flair vs. Windham, the original. What an awesome, awesome match. Flair's the man obviously and at this point in Barry's career, he's a giant babyface that doesn't quite have all that confidence he'd have a year later in their rematch so I felt like it was a lot easier to get behind him and hope for that huge upset win. His overzealousness and poor ring awareness get the best of him of several occasions as Flair moves out of the way of some sort of flying move many times and he got his foot on the bottom rope on three crucial pins. Just a tremendous back and forths match with (again) a lot of blood and (again) a shitty ending. Windham's body was clearly back in the ring, which should've stopped the count, AND, there was another time earlier in the match where both guys could've easily been counted out and it didn't happen. Plus why end a major show like this with a non-finish and why have them go 40 minutes for it? If you just ignore that stupid booking, there's an incredible match that you should try and get your hands on. I honestly would put this over their _Worldwide _match.

- Just wanna say this was a blast to watch despite the stupid ass booking on the finishes. Two quality matches you won't find on any WWE dvd.​


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Geolink said:


> Really is a shame what SmackDown has become today.


Honestly nowadays Smackdown often has very good wrestling matches.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Honestly nowadays Smackdown often has very good wrestling matches.


Yes. I mean it _is_ a shame what Smackdown has become, but they're still putting out good matches I believe.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brody doesn't really have much REALLY worth watching. He's a fun spectacle but very often the motherfucker was a shitty wrestler. Lex Luger on the other hand was legitimately really, really good in his peak and still good in the 90s despite people spouting the "he wasn't good" bullshit. No, screw you; you're not good!

Flair/Windham is pretty much one of the greatest matches that will ever happen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There will be no WW for a few weeks, but SV will be starting a new promotion on Wednesday, wonder if this will mean a new sale (even though im skint lol).


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

*Survivor Series 1997	* (All first-time watches)
The Headbangers and The New Blackjacks vs *Road Dogg, Billy Gunn and Godwinns (Elimination Match)* **1/2*
DOA vs *Truth Commission	***
*British Bulldog, Phil LaFon, Doug Furnas and Jim Neidhart* vs Vader, Steve Blackman, Goldust and Marc Mero	****1/4*
*Kane* vs Mankind	***1/2*
Legion Of Doom, Ken Shamrock and Ahmed Johnson vs Nation Of Domination	*****
Owen Hart (c) vs *Steve Austin* (Intercontinental Championship)	****
Bret Hart (c) vs *Shawn Michaels* (WWF Championship)	******

Thoughts: Decent PPV, with a lot of average and slightly above average stuff. However there's not really any essential stuff outside the main event. Austin/Hart was a glorified squash, as his neck meant he culdnt take any sort of bumps ):. Kane/Mankind was a pretty fun brawl, and Kane looked like a total monster. The rest... Meh.
Then there's the main event. First of all, the bad. 2 flag choke spots and HBK driving the flagpole into Harts throat, and no DQ? Hmm. Also, HBK's overselling detracted from the match as a whole. On the other hand, the pre-match brawl was great, there was some solid technical wrestling, and the finish was historic... Must see match for me.

Overall PPV rating: 6/10


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Brody doesn't really have much REALLY worth watching. He's a fun spectacle but very often the motherfucker was a shitty wrestler. Lex Luger on the other hand was legitimately really, really good in his peak and still good in the 90s despite people spouting the "he wasn't good" bullshit. No, screw you; you're not good!
> 
> Flair/Windham is pretty much one of the greatest matches that will ever happen.


Didn't Brody have a problem with losing to pretty much anyone? I don't exactly remember where I've heard that but I remember him not being able to lose clean without being pissy about it. And as far as Luger goes I wholeheartedly agree. I've seen a ton of good shit from him between '86 and '94. I try and just forget about anything he did after that. I still need to see Flair/Windham from the Crockett Cup.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've heard Brody did have a problem putting anybody over, but I've never really like, looked into it. He was notorious for no-selling his opponents offense, though. Plus he apparently often held up territories for more money and was pretty much never employed for a promotion and just went around. He was in high demand because no matter what the guy was like with all that, he drew teh moneez.

Luger was still pretty good as far as 97, BTW. There's 1996 matches I've watched from him where I thought he was pretty much perfect in his role. Well "perfect" makes him sound great which he wasn't, but he was good and really entertaining. Went to dig up some write-ups form my GLORIOUS blog, but I only have one which really sings Luger's praise:



Spoiler: LUGER!!!!!



Sting/Lex Luger vs. Marcus Bagwell/Scotty Riggs (Nitro 25/3/96) 
--Any interest I could have had in this (which was pretty much zero- American fuckin' Males) was squashed when I saw Bagwell in the ring sing along to his team's song (American fuckin' Males). Luger was pretty great in this, though. he comes out and the way he's high-fiving the fans and shoving his arms in the air comes off as really sarcastic, and he seemed to stop doing that sort of fan-pleasing when Sting turned his back. Bagwell was basically Sting's protégé, and when they got in the ring together Sting got the upper hand at every point and Bagwell clapped and gave him dues, and Sting played the role of respectful mentor. Luger was a prick. He pounded the ever-loving shit of Bagwell and Tony Schiavone wondered whether it was to get under Sting's skin, who was confused and disgusted an the apron. Sting/Luger winning was pretty priceless; Lex almost runs off with both tag belts and Sting's in the ring raising the American (fuckin') Males' arms. What else? Oh yeah, Scotty Riggs.... he was.....pretty shitty, actually. American fuckin' Males.



He works really well against Eddie Guerrero in a singles, and I actually remember more Luger spots in the match than Eddie ones.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair/Windham BOTB II 86 - ***** and 2nd GOAT match for me. Their WWW 87 match is also ***** and the 3rd GOAT match . Crockett Cup is a little disappointing compared to the other two, only around **** for it.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

So Cal what is your Number One GOAT, something with Kurt Angle in it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, Angle is in my #4 to #10 8*D.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Angle is my favorite of all time, not just matches but he is very all round, can go and do quite a few different styles of matches be it highflying, ground wrestling, hardcore, brawling etc. he has proven in his prime that he can have 4+ star matches with different ranges of superstars not just one or two main eventers. 

Plus he can play a believable face and a heel, cut great promos being a goofy face (the milk truck is my personal favorite) or an obnoxious heel. 

I just hope though that he does decide to clean up his drug addiction one day and returns to the WWE to get a final storyline, send off that he deserves, like Edge/Shawn/Flair respectively got, because he deserves it and he wont get the right end to his career in front of 200 people in TNA.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

Yeah1993 Lex Luger beating Hollywood Hogan in 1997 was the defining moment of my childhood


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You poor childhood.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

The defining moment of my childhood was team WWF winning at the survivor series and defeating the Aliance, as a small kid I honestly thought that it could be over and the end of the company I loved so much  . Hey, everyone was a small mark one point in their lives.


----------



## FearIs4UP (Apr 8, 2007)

The Bad Guy said:


> The defining moment of my childhood was team WWF winning at the survivor series and defeating the Aliance, as a small kid I honestly thought that it could be over and the end of the company I loved so much  . Hey, everyone was a small mark one point in their lives.


Lol, I was in the same boat. Was 9 at the time, and the prospect of the Alliance winning was very real to me.

Rock/SCSA at WM 17 was probably the most memorable thing for me. Austin and Vince at the end pretty much exploded my 9 year old brain.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was 9 when Warrior beat Hogan - still lives with me today!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was 2 and a half when The Undertaker made his debut. It's my first memory in life and he was the first wrestler I ever saw (or at least remember seeing lol). From that point on I was a fan of him and a fan of wrestling, even if the next few years are a little fuzzy. Once I get to late 94 I remember a ton of things. WM 11 being the first WM I saw, Razor Vs 123 Kid where the loser had to dress as a baby or something, Diesel and HBK teaming, then breaking up and Diesel showing up as champion. So many fond memories.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

The main things I remember from my childhood are Jake Roberts setting Damien on Randy Savage and it biting his arm back in 1991. That shit legit scarred me at the time.

I also fondly remember Undertaker getting his revenge on Yokozuna at Survivor Series 1994, with Chuck Norris ringside as special enforcer 

Anways, it's been a crap day today (mum's birthday, she died 6 years ago next week) and nothing cheers me up more than watching classic Rock segments and listening to Jerry Lawler legit mark out and laugh his ass off at some of the things Rocky does. When Rock first says "Poontang Pie" during This Is Your Life, Lawler's reaction is priceless.

During the Rock's scathing promo in Toronto in 2003, its so funny to hear Lawler agreeing with everything he said, like he's his best mate or something. And then there's the Rock Concert 2, when Gillberg comes out and King just loses his shit. It's hilarious, and clearly obvious that he was a real fan of Rocky and couldn't hide his enjoyment whenever he was in the ring.

Love him or hate him, Rock had PRESCENCE. A perfect example is Toronto 2003, the way he walks out onto the stage and just kinda stands there, scanning the crowd and soaking it in but totally owning the moment. He as an aura, and its something that is missing from the majority of top guys today. Very few of them can walk out onto the stage and really feel like a big deal, like the show revolves around that moment.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LMAO, that Rock/Gillberg segment fucking killed me. :lmao


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

I'm a bit of a youngster for some reason I bought that Mr. America wasn't Hogan. I mean I knew it was fake but I thought he was honestly not Hogan.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

The first match I ACTUALLY remember is the Undertaker Yokozuna Casket Match. I don't know when it happened, but I remember being told Yoko had to go to jail for losing. I remember Hacksaw Jim Duggan aligning himself with Hulk Hogan. I remember Mr. Perfect and the perfect plex. I remember the sharpshooter and the figure four. I was definitely a pre-attitude fan, but I've been a fan for life.

I also remember being a really big Chris Jericho fan back before he got any kind of push. God I'm so cool.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Oh shit, also the Lawler-Hart kiss my foot match. That shit was mesmerizing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lawler/Hart feud was awesome when I was a kid. I still remember a cage match between Bret and Ka... Isaac Yankem where Lawler switched keys with the referee so he had the right one and the ref had the wrong one; anything to prevent Bret from escaping and winning. But it backfired eventually and Bret won. Fun times .


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Remember when Mabel won King of the Ring?


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Remember when Mabel won King of the Ring?


unfortunately yes. They should have given it to other people, even Taker would have been a better choice. Would have loved to have seen Scott Hall / Razor Ramon get it, though I dont remember if he was still with the company during mid 95 or if he already moved to WCW than.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was a Mabel fan back then .


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

First thing I ever recall of wrestling, was catching that show that used to come on sunday mornings that was just a recap of what happened during the week. Think it was called Livewire or something? Anyway, caught an episode of that on the morning of Summerslam 1998, I remember going outside to ask my mom what time zone we were in because they were advertising Sunday Night Heat at 7pm, and I HAD to watch it. From that day on I was hooked, WCW included. I would always go to the local video store and rent old WWF and WCW ppvs, among the rotations of what I rented were WM10, SSlam 98 and 97, Breakdown 98, Rock Bottom 98, Fully Loaded 00, Rumble 95, SSlam 95, and Rumble 01. 

Wrestling is the only "link" to my childhood, nothing takes me back more than watching old wrestling from the attitude era, such good memories.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Mercy 2003:*

Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/4
Chris Benoit vs A-Train - ***
Matt Hardy vs Zach Gowen - **1/2
The APA vs Basham Brothers - **
Stephanie vs Vince McMahon - ***1/2 (So damn goofy to watch. All the over-dramatic shit going on is just comedy gold. "HIT HIM IN THE DAMN HEAD! HIT HIM IN THE DAMN HEAD!!!")
Kurt Angle vs John Cena - ***3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs Big Show - ***
Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker - ****

Overall: *** out of *****

Now it's time for SURVIVOR SERIES!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Taker, Vengeance 03, ***1/2

Cena/Angle, No Mercy 03, ***3/4


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Starbuck* You have to watch Taker/Cena from Smackdown 2004..the best match between Taker and Cena.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I have both Taker/Cena Vengeance 03 and that 04 SD match at ****. Taker/Cena were awesome together. They also had a match on Raw in 06, that while short, I remember being good for what it was. Gotta find and rewatch it though.

I have no doubt that at a Mania Taker and Cena can go out there and deliver a classic.

Cena/Angle at NM gets ***3/4. Great match as well.

EDIT:






^The Taker/Cena match I talked about from Raw in 06. ***1/4. The pace was great. The crowd was very alive. Taker and Cena were both at their best during this time. This feels like an old school Taker match. Cena's offense doesn't do much, and he can't seem to get Taker down, and when he finally does Taker just sits up. They reverse finishers a bit until Taker finally gets the chokeslam, and from there KING BOOKAH and Big Show interfere. Very good tv match. Short (4 and a half minutes by my count), but good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's funny that in No Mercy, Cena and Angle get a split reaction with the male audience mostly backing Cena while the converse of that would happen in 2005 and 2006 during their First Blood match, which I rate at ***1/4.

And I'm looking forward to Taker/Cena in 2004 when I get to that point, almost finished with 2003 so I'm looking forward to face Cena as Dr. of Thugaonmics even though I know he was better as a heel. Smackdown may not be as fun, though, since Benoit moves over to Raw and Lesnar leaves.

Back to Cena/Taker, there's no doubt they'll put on a match to be remembered for decades if they face off at Mania. And I've seen that Raw 06 match before, way too short for me to be able to give a real opinion on it. My favorite match of theirs is the rematch after Vengeance where A-Train interferes, though.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Summerslam 2012:

Jericho/Ziggler ****1/4*
Daniel/Kane ****1/4*
Rey/Miz ***3/4*
Sheamus/Berto ******
Truth + Kofi/PTP (unseen)
Punk/Show/Cena ****
Brock/Hunter *****3/4*

General thoughts:
Jericho/Ziggler was meant to be one of my top favourite matches ever, but maybe that was expecting too much? 

DBry somehow makes me enjoy a match with two dudes I have no interest in that were given half the time, more than a match between two of my favourite wrestlers that opened the show. :|

Miz/Rey was eh, but what surprised me was Miz actually held his own. Step by step, he is improving

MASSIVE improvement between Sheamus/Berto. The ending was obviously booked to make a rematch possible, which I don't know what they were thinking because last time they stunk the joint out. This was great though, so if it's for more like this then I'm all for it.

WTF was that triple threat tho? The good news is I've always been a fan of the double fall finish, even if it was executed better the first(?) time on RAW.

FUCK. Brock is a BEAST. For me that was joint MOTY with the cell match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ziggler/Jericho - ***3/4
Kane/Bryan - ***1/4
Miz/Rey - ***1/4
Sheamus/Del Rio - ***
Kofi/Truth vs PTP - **
Cena/Punk/Show - *1/2
Lesnar/Trips - ***1/4

Fun show.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

main event sucked

the entire match should have been triple h having his finishers no sold, being stomped in the crotch 45 million times while lesnar takes a shit on him, makes him tap and throws him into a trash can and brock has sex with steph in the ring

it also should have lasted 10 seconds

and we should win things by watching it

negative five stars


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Loved the main event, I'd echo Clique's ratings. Legit thought Lesnar was about to die on PPV though, looked to be spitting up blood.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

*SummerSlam 2012*

Dolph Ziggler VS Chris Jericho-***3/4
Good match. Great back and forth at end. Wish Ziggles went over though

Kane VS Daniel Bryan-***
Bryan brought out good things here and the win was surprising

Miz VS Rey Mysterio - ***2/4
Actually a good match from Miz/Mysterio. 

Sheamus VS Alberto Del Rio - ***1/4
Slow and boring. Not HALF as bad as MITB though. Ending was meh.

PTP vs Kofi/Truth - **
Not much to say

John Cena VS CM Punk VS Big Show - **3/4
Boring as Big Show controlled. Crowd was hot so it helped a lot to that factor. Finish I wish Punk hit the GTS on Cena but oh well.

Lesnar VS Triple H - ****1/4
Fuckin' awesome. You had Triple H desperately using gut attacks to weaken Lesnar (From his legit Diverticulitis problems). Which is what was his big weakness in UFC. The finish was excellent. Just breaks the arm no issue. Heyman also added to the intemsity and the crowd was hot.

Not too bad a show to be honest. I enjoyed it.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Jericho V Ziggler ***1/4 and that was the best match on the show.


HHH V Lesnar sucked. *1/2. Boring as hell. I saw what they were going for and it fell flat on its face. The crowd was dead for most of it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Looks like a pretty skip-worthy show. I guess I'll just check out Lesnar/HHH later


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Honestly, i loved the match

But the sheer absurd negativity over the dumbest shit possible in the summerslam thread just killed the match for me

Right man won, selling was perfect, beautifully executed move, Brock looked like an absolute monster and even the ending worked. Fitting in the context of a PERSONAL FEUD, Triple H walking out broken and crying was perfect. He tapped out, gave up. In his prime he could have avenged his wife and beat the fuck out of lesnar. but he failed now. and it killed him. He wasnt good enough

Infact if you ask me, this is exactly how the Wrestlemania 25 match vs Orton shoulda gone. Or atleast similarly to this


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Woah, people are giving HHH V Lesnar MOTYC ratings? what the fuck? WHAT THE FUCK?!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fantastic main event we all just witnessed there. I'd put it a hair above Lesnar-Cena from Extreme Rules, due to Brock's superior selling and the incorporation of real life injuries into the match. I'd go ahead and give this ***** 3/4* on my first watch, and I would put it at number 7 on my HHH PPV list (right above VEN HIAC and right below WM 27). Need a rewatch to really say whether it's my MOTY or not, but DAMN.

Oh yeah, FUCK that WWE Championship match.. WHY would they let Big Show dictate the pace there , just MEH. Easily Punk's worst WWE title match ever.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Crap, Lesnar was coughing up blood? DAMN, my stream broke up at one point and I missed it


Brye said:


> I didn't really like it. :/
> 
> Other than using Lesnar's actual stomach injuries and the finish, I felt Cena/Lesnar was way better. Not really sure why but I didn't really care for the majority of Lesnar/HHH.


Oh yeah, Cena/Lesnar. I can't decide between the two but the newness of Brock's intensity was fresh then, whereas maybe it's expected now?


Redead said:


> Honestly, i loved the match
> 
> But the sheer absurd negativity over the dumbest shit possible in the summerslam thread just killed the match for me
> 
> ...


Oh absolutely the right man won. I was sure Shawn Michaels' involvement was solely to justify HHH going over, which is why this win was a nice surprise.

On the other hand, how pathetic was that 3x threat? Cena and Punk by themselves gave us ****1/4 last year, so the fault obviously wasn't with them. I'mjessayin' sorrynotsorry


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Brock/HHH - DUD

Needed more 450 corkscrew moonsaults from the tops of 45 feet ladders. Also, 19 Pedigrees, 25 F5s, and 50 sledgehammer shots.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar/HHH gets *** at best from me. The pace was dreadful. The action was even more so. The first part of the match was constantly HHH punching Lesnar, Lesnar ramming him into the corner, so on and so fourth. HHH knocks Lesnar out a couple of times. Lesnar then goes to work on the arm, and that is where the match gets extremely dull. HHH manages to open a weakness in the stomach, and the psychology in the match is good. The selling is good. But the execution of everything and the pace was plodding and never ending. Lesnar popping up from the second pedigree like that to lock in his submission, while a shocker, wasn't very realistic and I hate when that happens. Honestly I'm thinking three is too high. Even the crowd was dead for much of it. The match had no steam, and only hype from the two men competing. I'll need to re-watch it. I'm keeping it at *** for now. 

At the very least, Lesnar came out looking very strong, as he should.

WWE Title match was underwhelming. Adding Show to the match was a huge mistake, and in the end only served to just prolong the Punk/Cena feud into NOC in Cena's hometown.

My ratings:

Ziggler/Jericho - ***3/4
Kane/Bryan - ***1/4
Miz/Rey - ***1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio - **3/4
Kofi/Truth vs PTP - *1/2
Cena/Punk/Show - **1/2
Lesnar/Trips - ***


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Huganomics said:


> Brock/HHH - DUD
> 
> Needed more 450 corkscrew moonsaults from the tops of 45 feet ladders. Also, 19 Pedigrees, 25 F5s, and 50 sledgehammer shots.


Or just put on a good match. The match was just lumbering on for 20 mins and then HHH tapped out. Boring as shit, nothing happened. Yeah the right man won, in a boring, uneventful, unspectacular, heatless match. Fucking Daniel Bryan Vs Kane was better.

EDIT the more I think about it the more I hate it. it gets *. Awful match


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

so selling, psychology and storytelling should be ignored?

it was nowhere near cena/lesnar, but it was a pretty fantastic brawl


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

What would you consider a good match? If you think nothing happened, maybe we weren't watching the same match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Summerslam 2012*

Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2

Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - **1/4

*Intercontinental Championship*
The Miz (c) vs. Rey Mysterio - **3/4

*World Heavyweight Championship*
Sheamus (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio - **3/4

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
R-Truth & Kofi Kingston (c) vs. The Primetime Players - **

*WWE Championship*
CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - ***

Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H - ***1/4


*Overall: 6.5/10*​
- Jericho and Ziggler had a great opener and was honestly my personal favorite match of the night. Ziggler is constantly improving and all his transitions look smooth. Very nice finishing stretch. Is Jericho staying around, cause it wouldn't make any sense for him to win if he isn't.

- As much as I didn't care about Sheamus/Del Rio, I actually enjoyed what they gave me. Del Rio was super over in LA and he ad some nice nearfalls. The finish makes no fucking sense though. In no way does that make Sheamus look strong, if anything it makes Del Rio look strong in defeat and could possibly setup yet ANOTHER match between the two, which would be fuckin ridiculous.

- Big Show fucking DOMINATED the WWE Title match, looked like a legit monster, yet he gets shit on by losing not once, but twice. Clearly sets up Cena/Punk next month at NOC, in which I'm guaranteeing a win for Cena.

- Lesnar/HHH was fine but nothing memorable. Didn't have that shock factor that the Cena match did, I didn't think there was really any believable nearfalls, and the finish felt flat with an actual tapout from Trips. Had some sound psychology and storytelling though but Lesnar's offense was quite limited and in usual HHH fashion he steals the spotlight post match. Pretty forgettable show honestly.​


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Huganomics said:


> What would you consider a good match? If you think nothing happened, maybe we weren't watching the same match.


I consider a good match to be paced well, executed well, have a lot of heat and crowd reaction to work with, and have the match build to something. Lesnar and HHH was just 20 mins of punch, punch, shoulder, shoulder, take a break, No sell finishers, HHH taps, HHH cries, the end. 

BUT HHH HELD HIZ ARM, DATS PSYCHOLOGY, ****1/2.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

if you phrase it like that, any match is going to sound stupid. 

whatd you think of the last few Undertaker wrestlemania matches?


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

WM28 - HHH/Taker: HHH hits Taker with weapons, Shawn hits a superkick, Taker hits a pedigree. They all cry like pussies lol.

NEGATIVE FIVE STARS WORST MATCH EVAR


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Redead said:


> if you phrase it like that, any match is going to sound stupid.
> 
> whatd you think of the last few Undertaker wrestlemania matches?


Those matches were everything HHH V Lesnar wanted to be. Those matches were EXECUTED well. They were much better paced, had a much better build, had much more heat, and actually told a story with a clear beginning, middle, and end. HHH V Lesnar was just a bunch of lumbering and stumbling around the ring with no heat or intensity to keep me engaged. 

Its was a bad, bad match.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler - ****

Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - **1/4

Intercontinental Championship
The Miz (c) vs. Rey Mysterio - ***

World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio - **3/4

WWE Tag Team Championship
R-Truth & Kofi Kingston (c) vs. The Primetime Players - *3/4

WWE Championship
CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - **1/2

Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H - ****

Ok show overall, was a little let down by the Bryan and Kane match thought it was going to be better then that. Triple h vs Brock was a good match overall, could have gone on 5-10 minutes longer if i'm honest, but great storytelling with Brock working the arm all match Triple H tapping was also great, didn't think Brock would get the tap out win,


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Anyway yeah, full ratings.

Ziggler V Jericho ***1/4
Kane V DB ***
Miz V Rey ***1/4
Sheamus V Del Rio **3/4 WORST FINISH OF THE YEAR
Tag team match 1/2*
Punk v Show v Cena **1/2
Lesnar V HHH *

Poor Summerslam


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

you didnt answer

thoughts on the last few undertaker WM matches


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The difference between HHH/Lesnar and Cena/Lesnar is that Lesnar's pure brutality and performance was so fresh and something we haven't seen before. Plus Cena's babyface performance was incredible. Hell I wanted lesnar to win against cena but I found myself rooting for cena because of all the brutal shit lesnar was putting him through. The absolute dominance of lesnar was something incredible. HHH/Lesnar to me, while it was a really good match it just felt lacking to me. The pace just dragged on, lesnar didn't seem to be this unstoppable monster anymore because of the cena match earlier this year. The selling was tremendous though. The match just didn't feel like a do or die match the way cena vs lesnar was.

HHH/Lesnar ***3/4 on first watch


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Count me in on the side that was disappointed by Brock/HHH. It felt more like a Dean Malenko Saturday Night match than a legit Brock Lesnar ass-kicking. Pacing was terrible, tons of move spamming, lacked the surreal feel that Cena/Brock had, weak climax, and dead crowd. A shame because most of the undercard was pretty solid.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Redead said:


> you didnt answer
> 
> thoughts on the last few undertaker WM matches


HHH V Undertaker WM 27 ****1/4

HHH V Undertaker WM 28 ****1/2

They did everything better then the Lesnar V HHH match IMO and most of the opinions live in attendance tonight as they were dead for most of it.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Cena v Punk v Show was the worst match on the card though, I don't understand how anyone can disagree.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

jblvdx said:


> HHH V Undertaker WM 27 ****1/4
> 
> HHH V Undertaker WM 28 ****1/2
> 
> They did everything better then the Lesnar V HHH match IMO and most of the opinions live in attendance tonight as they were dead for most of it.


crowd makes all the difference in the world though

a livlier crowd would have definitely helped the match


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> Cena v Punk v Show was the worst match on the card though, I don't understand how anyone can disagree.


Tag match wasn't very good either.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> Cena v Punk v Show was the worst match on the card though, I don't understand how anyone can disagree.





funnyfaces1 said:


> Tag match wasn't very good either.


Same with Bryan and Kane that was a let down for me. none of those 3 match where that good.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Redead said:


> crowd makes all the difference in the world though
> 
> a livlier crowd would have definitely helped the match


That match if anything needed a live crowd. The type of match they were having live and die on crowd reactions, and tonight the match died.


----------



## Vyed (Apr 24, 2012)

Dolph/Jericho ****1/4
Kane/DB ***1/4
Miz/Rey ***1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio ***3/4 
Kofi/Truth vs PTP **
Cena/Show/Punk ***
Lesnar V HHH ****1/2

Awesome show. 

jblvdx just mad punk didnt main event.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Tag match wasn't very good either.


Oh, lol. I didn't watch it.



11rob2k said:


> Same with Bryan and Kane that was a let down for me.


I expected NOTHING from Bryan/Kane, so the fact that it was even watchable (much less enjoyable) is a testament to Bryan.

I liked the WHC match a lot though. Probably ***3/4, a massive step up from their damn near DUD at Money in the Bank


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i think bryan can get a benoit style match out of kane if given the chance


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Vyed said:


> Dolph/Jericho ****1/4
> Kane/DB ***1/4
> Miz/Rey ***1/2
> Sheamus/Del Rio ***3/4
> ...


I'm mad that a match featuring Lesnar and HHH sucked balls.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> I expected NOTHING from Bryan/Kane, so the fact that it was even watchable (much less enjoyable) is a testament to Bryan.


Thats interesting why didn't you expected anything from the match? They are both good workers, they should have put on a better match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Was anyone else pissed at the style that Punk/Show/Cena went? And the whole double submission thing was fucking lame.

Glad Punk won though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

> crowd makes all the difference in the world though
> 
> a livlier crowd would have definitely helped the match


The crowd didn't help matters, but honestly, I don't know how they could've gotten into the match. It just felt like it was going on forever and that they were rewinding the same spots over and over again. The table spots were cool, but it was a difficult match to get into.

Taker/HHH WM27 was different for one reason. The streak. There was an investment in attention toward seeing how the match turns out. Every chairshot to Taker, every pedigree, the tombstone, and then HHH pulling out the sledgehammer. The crowd kept getting louder and louder as it seemed like HHH was going to end the streak. Whether people wanted to see it or not, it would've been an epic moment to be there when the streak ends, and the investment in the match is what caused the thunderous pop when Taker kicked out of the tombstone. For all the criticism I give the match and that I think it's overrated like Lesnar/HHH by some (though it's still the better match), it had the natural tools to keep the crowd invested no matter how bad the pace got. And tbh the match started out well in the action department before it moved to a storytelling/selling focus as the match progressed. 

Taker/HHH in the HIAC took what was great about the WM27 match, spread the action and pace out a lot more, and picked up the storytelling ten-fold. 

Lesnar/HHH didn't have a "streak" (which could be job, title, etc.) on the line to fall back on to reel the fans in if the brawling/action was disappointing/slow/boring. That's why they were dead imo.

Although we could just pull the card that the crowd sucked, but for a match the level of Lesnar/HHH, if the crowd sucked there has to be a good reason.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Brye said:


> Was anyone else pissed at the style that Punk/Show/Cena went? And the whole double submission thing was fucking lame.
> 
> Glad Punk won though.


any triple threat that doesnt have benoit or triple h or shawn is gonna be gimmicky, spotty and kinda suck

honestly, they should just give up on triple threats unless it makes perfect storytelling sense to go in that direction


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Redead said:


> any triple threat that doesnt have benoit or triple h or shawn is gonna be gimmicky, spotty and kinda suck
> 
> honestly, they should just give up on triple threats unless it makes perfect storytelling sense to go in that direction


True. I absolutely cringed at that submission spot though. Cena with DAT STF? I liked the comeback part before it when Punk and Cena started fighting back, but that match told the complete wrong story and it made no sense. Big Show 'dominates' the match and then taps...and then gets pinned. What in the fuck?

Agreed on your point though. Every triple threat I thought of that I enjoyed involved HBK, Benoit or HHH besides Angle/Rock/Taker.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

My ratings:

Dolph Ziggler vs Chris Jericho ***3/4

Daniel Bryan vs Kane **

The Miz vs Rey Mysterio ***

The Prime Time Players vs Kofi Kingston and R-Truth **

Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio **1/2

CM Punk vs John Cena vs The Big Show ***

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H ****1/4


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

11rob2k said:


> Thats interesting why didn't you expected anything from the match? They are both good workers, they should have put on a better match.


Well Bryan is BITW and a dynamo etc etc he can usually pull things out of his ass like that so not surprising at his end, but Kane is VERY touch and go when it comes to matches. He can be pretty good when he has the right guy with him, but with the wrong guy with him (eg another big man) the results are often disastrous. So I figured it's better to have no expectations and be pleasantly surprised, than have expectations and be disappointed. Which happened to two matches on the card for me, sadly.


Brye said:


> Was anyone else pissed at the style that Punk/Show/Cena went? And the whole double submission thing was fucking lame.
> 
> Glad Punk won though.


I was pissed off at it being so retarded. Oh god, everything.. who let Big Show control the match, first of all? There was just a whole bunch of bumrushed spots before people randomly started going into finishing sequences, and then more fuckery, and then a double fall... oh, it was awful


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Let me just say one other thing, after watching this match, part of me hopes that Taker/Lesnar at Mania doesn't happen and instead we get Taker/Cena and Lesnar/Rock. Why? Because Lesnar's pacing of his control segment and repeated offense is what brought the match down for me a whole lot, and if that's what we're in for come Wrestlemania, I'd rather Lesnar not ruin Taker's streak of great matches by doing the same shit he did in this match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> I was pissed off at it being so retarded. Oh god, everything.. who let Big Show control the match, first of all? There was just a whole bunch of bumrushed spots before people randomly started going into finishing sequences, and then more fuckery, and then a double fall... oh, it was awful


I don't know who's idea it was to tell Show to go out there and dominate a match...especially in 2012...and expect good to come out of it. It was ridiculously short for a WWE title match too. Or at least compared to the two Punk/Bryan and Punk/Jericho epics we got. But I'm glad it didn't go longer. Nothing good was going to come out of it.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Summerslam 2012*
First Take

Jericho/Ziggler *** 1/2
Bryan/Kane ** 3/4
Miz/Mysterio *** 1/4
Sheamus/Del rio ** 3/4
PTP/Kofi&Truth * 3/4
Cena/Punk/Show ***
Lesnar/HHH *** 1/2

A solid and fun PPV, nothing really stood out particularly. No real MOTYC that I assumed we would see, but everything was really solid and fun to sit through. I can already seeing everyone debating about the Lesnar/HHH match and I see both sides of the argument, Im gonna be lame and sit on the fence. I made a case that Mysterio and Miz were my dark horse for MOTN and in my estimations they almost took it, another 5 minutes and this was my MOTN. They really do have great chemistry together, however Rey can go with anyone. The triple threat was good in my estimations but really could of been done better, the double tap out finish was ridiculous but Cena always have to have a way out. Thank god Show is out of it now, bring on Cena/Punk.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Top 5 Matches of 2012*

Undertaker vs HHH Hiac WM28 ***** 3/4*
Punk/Bryan OTL ***** 1/2*
Cena/Lesnar ER ***** 1/2*
Sheamus/Bryan ER ***** 1/2*
Punk/Jericho WM28 ***** 1/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 so far of the year:

1) Punk/Bryan OTL- *****
2) Punk/Jericho WM- ****1/2
3) Sheamus/Bryan ER- ****
4) Taker/HHH WM28- ****
5) Punk/Henry Raw after WM28- ****


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

HHH/Taker WM28
Lesnar/Cena ER
Lesnar/HHH SS
Punk/Jericho ER 
Punk/Bryan MITB

No specific order or concrete star ratings atm.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Upon further review and time to think and reflect, I still do believe that Punk-Bryan from OTL would be my MOTY so far. What a year we have had in terms of matches this year , just to recap my top 10 matches of the year as of now :

1. Punk-Bryan OTL ***** 3/4*
2. HHH-Lesnar SS ***** 1/2*
3. Cena-Lesnar ER ***** 1/2*
4. HHH-Taker WM ***** 1/2*
5. Punk-Jericho WM ***** 1/2*
6. Sheamus-Bryan ER ***** 1/2*
7. Punk-Jericho ER ***** 1/4*
8. Punk-Bryan MITB ******
9. Punk-Henry (RAW) ******
10. Punk-Bryan-Kane NWO **** 3/4*

WOTY by far : CM Punk.

How TOP HEAVY this year has been is absolutely insane. Seems to me as if WWE is cranking out more and more ***** +* matches and *-**** matches, whilst producing less 3 to 4 star contests. Some people enjoy the trade off in productivity and stars, but I feel the overall consistency of the product has faltered downwards. Seems like last year we were getting consistent ****+* matches on every PPV, whilst this year we are getting waaaay less GOOD matches and more CLASSICS. 

Take a PPV like Extreme Rules for example. Outside of the 3 CLASSICS, the rest of the card is essentially filler, squashes, and random bullshit. Would you prefer that over a card such as Vengeance 2011 which IMO has ZERO *****+* matches, but only one match that's under ***** ? Sure, Extreme Rules may be packed with classics, but it definitely doesn't flow better than a CONSISTENTLY GREAT PPV. It's a wonderful debate if you really sit down and think about it.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I prefer a handful of classics than a hoard of good-great matches. Legit.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Take a PPV like Extreme Rules for example. Outside of the 3 CLASSICS, the rest of the card is essentially filler, squashes, and random bullshit. Would you prefer that over a card such as Vengeance 2011 which IMO has ZERO *****+* matches, but only one match that's under ***** ? Sure, Extreme Rules may be packed with classics, but it definitely doesn't flow better than a CONSISTENTLY GREAT PPV. It's a wonderful debate if you really sit down and think about it.


I would make prefer a PPV like Extreme Rules 2012, give me a handful of 4 stars matches on a card and fillers, then a consistent 3 star match quality PPV. I wanna see matches that I'll remember for along time, rather then a consistently solid PPV that will have no matches that ill remember by the time the year is out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I prefer a handful of classics than a hoard of good-great matches. Legit.


My interpretation of a classic is way, way, way different to most people, but I agree with this. A six match show with three matches being great and three being OK is way more my thing than a six match with six matches being merely "good".


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

End of an Era
Lesnar/Cena
Punk/Jericho (WM)
Punk/Bryan (OTL)
Sheamus/Bryan (ER)

It was a show filled with ok matches, which for me is a show i regret ordering.
The crowd was luckwarm the entire night.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Ziggler/Jericho - ***3/4
Kane/Bryan - **2/3
Miz/Rey - ***
Sheamus/Del Rio - ***3/4
Kofi/Truth vs PTP - **
Cena/Punk/Show - **3/4
Lesnar/HHH - ***

The show had a really solid undercard , but faded towards the end.

Main event was meh . There are ways to do great brawls without weapons, but if they had the "No DQ" thing (which was actually quite clever) they might as well have used it for at least half of the match. The action was dull, and the story of Brock's stomach was way too subtle for its own good. While there were some good story telling during the match if there isn't sufficent action I can really get invested , similar to HHH/Undertaker at WM27.But what was their logic with regards to Brock no selling a second pedigree? That just looked bizarre.

ADR/Sheamus was a big improvement , I think they could really flurish in a gimmick match. The finish was convoluded , can't wait for SHEAMUS IS A TWEENER OMGZZZ threads.


----------



## RedCarrot (Jul 16, 2012)

Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***1/4
Kane vs. Daniel Bryan - ***
Rey Mysterio vs. The Miz - ***
Sheamus vs. Del Rio - ***
Tag Match - **
Cena/Punk/Big Show - **1/2
HHH/Lesnar - **3/4

The reactions for Punk/Bryan/Ziggler are great. They don't need these old guys hogging the main event spotlight. Had this PPV had the Orton/Christian and Punk/Cena main events we saw last year we could have been looking at a classic. Opening hour and a half was excellence.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*Summerslam 2012*
Ziggler/Jericho - ***1/4
Kane/Bryan - ***
Miz/Rey - ***1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio - ***1/4
Kofi/Truth vs PTP - *
Cena/Punk/Show - *1/2
Lesnar/HHH - **1/4

Show started of well with a fun match between Ziggler/Y2J and a match showcasing Daniel Bryan's ability to carry Kane to a good match.

I'm really high on Miz/Mysterio. I'm climbing on the Mysterio bandwagon. Better late than never. His comeback here was awesome and it made the near-falls feel that much meaningful.

Del Rio/Fella was a big improvement over their last match. The fact they got me to give two shits about them shows this. I could probably sit through and enjoy a gimmick match with these two.

The triple threat was pretty bad. It says something when Big Show is the best performer in a match. He came off looking like a monster. Punk and Cena really didn't do anything of merit. Poor wrestling and very poorly booked.

HHH/Lesnar was a letdown. It start of well enough with Lesnar squashing HHH but it went on for way too long and they couldn't find ways to keep it interesting. Lesnar also killed the credibility of the Kimura by locking it on way too often. I didn't like the Kurt Angle levels of finishing trading at the end either. I did, however loved it when HHH went after Lesnar's stomach. It was a subtle nod to Lesnar's life threatening illness but it came off as very effective and it was the best thing about the match. Hey, at least Lesnar got that big win that he needed.

*Overall:*
Good undercard, but the match quality takes a turn for the worst after Del Rio/Sheamus. Seek out the good, skip the bad.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I absolutely love watching Lesnar in this current run. When he comes out, the atmosphere changes, the aura changes. It doesn't feel like WWE, it feels like something caught in the middle of what's real and what isn't and I love the dynamic it brings to his matches, absolutely love it. This match will most likely polarize because of the guys in it and also because I think people will either love it or hate it. If you are a fan of psychology though I don't see how you _can't_ love it because it was 100% a psychological battle of Lesnar trying to break HHH's arm right from the beginning all the way through to HHH trying to fuck up Lesnar's stomach towards the end. Everything they did to each other was targeted to those specific body parts. I get that some may find that boring but the story they were telling was pretty flawless imo. Brock knows HHH's arm is fucked so why would he go for anything else? There were some pretty brutal fucking spots too and the selling from both of them just blew me away. HHH sold that arm like it was about to fall off and I legit thought Lesnar was going to die from his stomach. Wow. 

Fantastic match and I can't believe some people are complaining over the finish. Seriously? HHH MUST LOSE 2 DA BORK OH FUCK BORK NO SOLD DA PEDIGREE DEN MADE HHH TAP OUT DEN MADE HIM CRY I DONT LIKE THIS FINISH ITS SHIT DURRRR. The man is damned if he does damned if he doesn't it seems. Either way, I enjoyed the hell out of this and while I would have liked the crowd to have been a little more into it, that didn't take away from the match for me on a grand scale. I wouldn't put it above Lesnar/Cena but it's in my top 5 MOTY absolutely.

Taker/HHH, Mania 28
Lesnar/Cena, ER
Punk/Bryan, OTL
Lesnar/HHH, SS
Haven't decided on number 5 yet lol

Makes me wonder how a match with Taker will go now. Lesnar has his credibility back. He took out HBK, he possibly retired HHH, can he end the streak and end the deadman too? My interest in Taker/Lesnar has gone up considerably after last night.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ziggler/Jericho - ***1/4
Kane/Bryan - **
Miz/Rey - ***1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio - ***
Kofi/Truth vs PTP - 1/2*
Cena/Punk/Show - **
Lesnar/HHH - need a rewatch


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Something I forgot to add. I love the fact that throughout this whole thing, HHH legit thought he could take Lesnar. Shawn said he had his doubts and Trips confidently laughed it off and told him that he "got this." Heyman told him what would happen and he didn't believe it. HHH asked for the match. HHH asked for the FIGHT. And in the end, HHH got humbled. He lost. He tapped out. He didn't avenge his friend, his family or his company. The look on his face at the end was picture perfect and told another story all on its own. Awesome sauce.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Summerslam 2002 is £4.99 on SV atm.

Whoa!!


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Something I forgot to add. I love the fact that throughout this whole thing, HHH legit thought he could take Lesnar. Shawn said he had his doubts and Trips confidently laughed it off and told him that he "got this." Heyman told him what would happen and he didn't believe it. HHH asked for the match. HHH asked for the FIGHT. And in the end, HHH got humbled. He lost. He tapped out. He didn't avenge his friend, his family or his company. The look on his face at the end was picture perfect and told another story all on its own. Awesome sauce.



Agree. The best part for me was referencing Brock's past diverticulitis, followed by him dry heaving and wincing. Just excellent psychology and storytelling.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena/Lesnar absolutely lapped HHH/Lesnar. Cena's babyface performance was in another universe to HHH's, he actually looked terribly vulnerable and on the point of being slaughtered, rather than working not far behind Lesnar and they timed Cena's key moments of offence superbly, the Backlund Powerslam Spot (with Lesnar's golden 'WTF' reaction) and the Chain off of Lesnar's dive both got huge reactions because they were timed perfectly in the match, the Backlund spot came off as a terrific 'do or die' spot with Cena having next to no offence before that spot, and the chain spot was exactly what Cena needed to weaken the monster and throw everything he had left to capitalise. The pace was frantic, the violence raw and dramatic, and crucially I never got the impression they were trying to force a great match, it just happened naturally. I said all along that HHH was never going to work with Lesnar in the same way Cena did, and despite Lesnar executing some nice limbwork and the selling of the intestine being excellent, the overall pacing and structure made the match feel long and plodding, rather than 100mph a minute like Lesnar/Cena. HHH wanted to make the match personal and feel like a war, but HHH/Lesnar whilst stiff in parts just didn't feel like a war, Lesnar/Cena felt violent and brutal, here's my thoughts which is a C&P job from another site:



Lesnar/HHH in theory had some good elements, but fuck me it was sooooooooooooooooo boring. HHH was never going to bump around and let Lesnar beat him like Cena did, so instead we got Brock working over the arm, and despite the work being good and fitting into the story....Lesnar just looked like a more aggressive Del Rio. The Cena match was unlike anything we'd seen for years, whereas this match despite being billed as the fight of the year didn't really feel that different to HHH/Punk or HHH/Taker. It was the same drawn out, slow plodding 'EPIC' HHH main event which just dragged and went too long. Lesnar should be killing people, things like him attempting a cradle and working holds just seemed so out of place for 'a monster looking to hurt people'. At least when he injured Cena's arm at ER it was done in a snap fashion off of the Kimura, and put over Lesnar could kill you at any moment, rather than Lesnar just working a drawn out limb segment. 

Like I said it was good pyschology from a story standpoint, but it should have been a frantic pace to put over the hate, rather than some plodding and drawn out 'DRAMATIC MATCH'. Table spot and Lesnar's selling was excellent, but again would have worked much better if HHH had been like Cena and had little to no offence prior, I get they want to work some start where HHH 'gets in Lesnar's head' but the Cena deadlift powerslam out of the Kimura spot worked so well because despite being an amazingly impressive visual, it was the first real bit of offence he landed that hurt Lesnar. The table spot here was very well done, but HHH had largely been working even or not far behind Lesnar that it just didn't feel as big a hope spot as it could have been, HHH never looked as vulnerable as Cena did throughout the ER match and whilst I know we were never going to get a match close to Cena/Lesnar here, I just wished my predicition about HHH insisting on Lesnar working a slower pace hadn't come off. They made this personal and talked it up as a match which could end HHH's career, but did he honestly look anymore vulnerable than he did at Wrestlemania? Its like they wanted us to believe this was a career defining match and something horrific to watch...but they never wrestled or incorporated spots to reflect that. HHH got banged up admittedly, but Cena looked like he was on the verge of being annihalated throughout the ER match, and this was coming off of a 3 week feud where they had one pull apart brawl, and Lesnar F-5ing Cena a couple of times. This had 3x the length in build, was far more personal in having Lesnar break HHH and HBK's arm...and yet the match had about 1/10th of the animosity and raw violence that Cena/Lesnar had. Again, it just goes back to HHH wanting to build the feud around this personal war but not wanting to eat the beating that would reflect that. 

And again, brawls/fights of this nature have to be excellent naturally, you can't work a slow pace and try to sell the drama, it just has to come naturally from the quick pace and big bumps. You watch a Lawler/Dundee match and it feels naturally dramatic, you see a HHH 'brawl' and it just feels so much damn slower and trying to capture this essence of 'emotion' and it just feels tame in comparison. I realise that's the WWE main event style, but holy god damn does it really show in a match like this. Finish made Brock look strong, though him just up and leaving shortly afterwards kind of lessened the impact. HHH milking the crowd and being met with 'you tapped out' chants honestly had me in tears. That will make me sound like some HHH hater not giving him or the match a chance, but I honestly couldn't contain my laughter there. Expecting some drawn out HHH retirement promo tonight.


----------



## Jerichaholic4life (Jun 29, 2008)

*Ziggler/Jericho - ***1/2*

This match was MOTN, the crowd in attendance would probably agree too, a very hot crowd, great back and forth action with some close 2 counts made this match very exciting to watch. It's also great to see Y2J broaden his repertoire again, that hurricarana from the top rope was very old school Jericho. It also took me off guard of how intense the match was, they gave the impression this match wasn't just filler but a personal rivalry, it really bought me into the build. A great way to open the show. 
*
Kane/D Bryan - **1/4 *

A short but sweet match, in fact it exceeded my expectations too. I know some people have been saying Daniel Bryan carried Kane but Kane has actually been pretty impressive since he put the mask back on. Good performances against Cena, Orton and now Bryan. Good stuff that didn't slow the pace of the show down. Not too long but not too short.

*Miz/Mysterio - ****

A great match here. I am not one to applaud Miz and his in-ring ability but he was great here, Mysterio is always great against smallish guys but I highly enjoyed this match. Some good little spots and lots of action, the final exchange in particular. This is probably my second favourite match of the night. 

*Sheamus/Del Rio - **1/2
*
Another good match here, although it was so hard to get in to or care about the outcome because both Sheamus and Del Rio have been extremely lacklustre outside of the ring recently for me. A boring feud with a good match. Albeit anticlimactic, no cash in nor closure from the feud makes me feel this feud is continuing. I don't know where the WWE are going with the whole foot on the rope thing, expect Del Rio to be on full complaining mode on Smackdown and get his rematch soon enough.. Yawn.

Oh and another thing, Sheamus really is struggling to get over as a true face champion, if anyone needed that heel turn or change of character it was Sheamus not punk.
*
Kofi and R Truth/Prime-time Players - **

My first of few complaints about this PPV was this match, it was pointless and should be saved for RAW, 10 solid minutes that should have been given to other more significant matches that would have really helped the show. Nonetheless the match itself was ok. Kofi is being wasted here, he was clearly the best thing about the match.

*Punk/Cena/Show - ***

Another PPV, another second to last match for the Champion to endure. The psychology was there and the match never really tired. Although the match played out how I expected and nothing really interesting happened. When AJ came out she should have eliminated Show and let Punk and Cena exchange for another five minutes. I don't know why the WWE are going with this direction for Punk as he is clearly still very much over, I didn't like the finish. Nor did I like Cena's laughable face pulling and terrible STF he locked on, just horrible..

*Lesnar/Triple H - ***

Now for the match that Summerslam was built around. I probably didn't have high expectations for this match as others did but even then it still didn't surpass them. The match was terribly paced and tedious. Repeated spots from Lesnar killed any momentum the match had, he still looks all over the place in terms of wrestling whereabouts. Unlike Lesnar/Cena this match didn't take advantage of building suspense over a come back. I was waiting for Triple H to take it to Lesnar at one point but that just never happened. The close two counts felt completely forced and Lesnar's no sell to the pedigree just looked weird to watch. When Triple H tapped out I felt an "Oh.. Is that it?" feel to it, I could sense others in the crowd felt the same too as they never got into the match either.

One thing I did enjoy was the merciless crowd chanting "You tapped out" throughout Triple H's supposed tearful goodbye. The match wasn't terrible but extremely underwhelming, which is probably the best way to describe it.
*
Overall*

I enjoyed Summerslam, it was well structured with an exciting opening and strong midcard. Although for a big PPV like this I expected one match to stand out as a classic but it didn't, possibly due to time constraints. A disappointing end but a good show throughout. I can't complain, then again I watched this PPV for free. If I'd bought the PPV I would have felt for a big event like Summerslam I didn't really get my moneys worth.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Is Judgment Day '08 worth buying?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Is Judgment Day '08 worth a watch?


Worth it if its cheap for Undertaker/Edge and HBK/Jericho.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Is Judgment Day '08 worth buying?


Not particuarly, only match worth of a watch to me is HBK/Y2J one of my favourites. Forgotten gem definitely.
Other then that nothing is worthy of a watch maybe taker/edge but thats the worst match they had together


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar Vs HHH

Liked the early going, with Lesnar going straight after HHH's arm (and well, he did it through the entire match too lol). Didn't mind that HHH was managing to escape and counter and shit, because unlike the Cena match, HHH has a good idea of what Lesnar is going to try to do to him, and what he's capable of doing to him.

Bit with Lesnar taking off his gloves was awesome. MMA equivalent of the strap coming down. HHH does an awesome job of selling the ONE gloveless punch to the back of the head, and the slam onto the table was a real nice follow up.

:lmao at Michael Cole. "He's not a superstar, he's a BUTT kicker". Just doesn't have the same impact as saying ass would have .

HHH, while no great seller or anything, does take a pretty good beating for the most part. Lesnar does some sweet cut off spots, including a wicket lariat and the irish whip into the corner (where HHH launches himself over the ropes to the floor) out of the Pedigree attempt.

Then things turn in favour a little to HHH when he manages to send him stomach first into the corner of the table, playing up on the genuinely life threatening stomach injuries Brock has had. Lesnar sells real good, and Heyman on the outside looking and sounding worries just adds to it. Nice to see the crowd starting to come alive at times when HHH really lays it into the stomach.

Has anyone kicked out of the Pedigree like THAT before? He took it full force, HHH covered him straight away, and he kicked out as long before 3 after 2 as humanly possibly lol.

And of course, HHH has to kick out of the F-5 in return lol. I bet they included that in Lesnar's fucking contract. "In the event that one Brock Lesnar competes in the ring against one Triple H, should an F-5 occur and the participant of this maneuver is one Triple H, then one Triple H has a contractual obligation to kick out before 3".

Lesnar completely no selling the second Pedigree to lock in the Kimura Lock was... I dunno lol. I loved the fact that HHH TAPPED THE FUCK OUT, but come on Brock . I think I liked it more than I hated it anyway.

Overall, this exceeded my expectations and then some. I was expecting it to be some shitty brawl with HHH getting far too much in than he has any right to, and instead we got what I believed should have happened. Lesnar destroyed HHH for the most part and won. Nice. Arm work from Brock was great, HHH going after the stomach towards the end was great, selling of this from Lesnar was great (and better than HHH's selling of the arm), and the finish was good because HHH tapped, but not great because of the complete no sell of the Pedigree lol.

Rating: ****

Thought Cena/Lesnar was just a little better, though I'd love to give that a re-watch at some point.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Worth it if its cheap for Undertaker/Edge and HBK/Jericho.


Wait, did Taker and Edge also have a JD match? All this while I thought their series consisted of four matches... (WM24, BL, ONS, SS)

From that PPV, I enjoyed the steel cage match between Orton and HHH. Also seen Cena/JBL and it's a DREADFUL match that is not even worth *. Such a 180 of their epic 2005 JD classic. JBL carries the entire match with lengthy restholds, then misses a Clothesline from Hell and Cena gives him the FU for the 3 count.

--------------

Right now I'm watching Lesnar/HHH and it seems enjoyable so far. mark: for the German!) And fucking WWE had to make Alberto/Sheamus for the millionth time with the same finish instead of putting Orton in the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, they had WM, BL, JD, ONS, took a break and then SS. IMO the WM, BL and JD need to be watched together, its one big series that evolves along the way and has magnificent storytelling. I'd go no less than ***3/4 for the JD match, then around ***1/2-***3/4 for BL and ****1/2 for WM. Out of context (aka watching them on their own at different times/different order etc), I can certainly understand people not liking them too much.



twitter said:


> The new #Raw DVD will contain the complete 1000th episode (3-hours) & something else special. More info soon on http://wwedvdnews.com


Full show on disc :mark:.

Also, despite the fact I'm certain SV said no WW for a few weeks (just a couple of sales), they just posted on twitter that the Bobby Heenan set will be £5.99 this week for WW .

Edit: And a new Bluray sale! https://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Blu-ray-sale/page1.html


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't think ill be getting anything from the sales tbh, or the WW, can't believe they put Summerslam 2002 on sale though!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't think ill be getting anything from the sales or the WW tbh, can't believe they put summerslam 2002 on sale though!!!


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

WM26 Blu-ray £7.99


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Completely agree w/Starbuck. Lesnar actually improved quite a bit during his time away, and he was already pretty awesome during his first run.

BORK 4 PRESIDENT


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Picked up Extreme Rules 11 & Summerslam 02 from the SV sales.

Pretty happy with that.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*Jericho/Ziggler* - ***1/4
*Bryan/Kane* - **1/2
*Miz/Mysterio* - ***
*Sheamus/Del Rio* - ***
*Tag Team* - *3/4
*Punk/Cena/Show* **1/2
*Brock/HHH* - ***1/2

Nothing shit, nothing brilliant. Flabbergasted by the range of ratings for the main event; seems even more divided than HHH/Undertaker from WM 27.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Lesnar Vs HHH
> 
> Liked the early going, with Lesnar going straight after HHH's arm (and well, he did it through the entire match too lol). Didn't mind that HHH was managing to escape and counter and shit, because unlike the Cena match, HHH has a good idea of what Lesnar is going to try to do to him, and what he's capable of doing to him.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with all of this. I really liked the story, Brock's arm work, HHH's stomach work on Brock and both guys sold really well (mainly Brock). Brock no selling the Pedigree was definitely off putting, but I loved (like Starbuck said) HHH genuinely thinking he could beat Lesnar and then just getting destroyed for the majority of it and then tapping/getting his arm fucked up again.

I also agree with what Starbuck said about the aura Brock brings with him to the ring. An example would be near the start of the match when Brock takes his gloves off and smiles at HHH, as stupid as this sounds, for a second I genuinely thought 'Oh shit, HHH is legit fucked now' lol. He also comes off as having no fucking concern for his own well being when he wrestles, the bumps he took off the clotheslines over the ropes and the way he launched himself off the table onto HHH, as well as in the Cena match in the spot were he jumped over the rope. The guy comes off as a mentally unstable beast, and it's awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar's style of wrestling right now might very well be the best thing going atm. He needs to have more matches. Have him fuck some jobbers up on TV or something, just for the hell of it. He's Brock Lesnar and he wants to FIGHT. Something like that. Not sure on plans for WM because I do my best to remain spoiler free these days, but if Lesnar vs Undertaker should happen, I'd be super fucking happy. Lesnar's current style is great, and Undertaker is still one of the best in the world when he gets in the ring PLUS he's adopted a lot of MMA style moves into his arsenal over the last few years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really hope Brock is featured up until and including Survivor Series, I don't wanna wait 'till Rumble/Mania.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bubz said:


> I completely agree with all of this. I really liked the story, Brock's arm work, HHH's stomach work on Brock and both guys sold really well (mainly Brock). Brock no selling the Pedigree was definitely off putting, but I loved (like Starbuck said) HHH genuinely thinking he could beat Lesnar and then just getting destroyed for the majority of it and then tapping/getting his arm fucked up again.
> 
> I also agree with what Starbuck said about the aura Brock brings with him to the ring. An example would be near the start of the match when Brock takes his gloves off and smiles at HHH, as stupid as this sounds, for a second I genuinely thought 'Oh shit, HHH is legit fucked now' lol. He also comes off as having no fucking concern for his own well being when he wrestles, the bumps he took off the clotheslines over the ropes and the way he launched himself off the table onto HHH, as well as in the Cena match in the spot were he jumped over the rope. The guy comes off as a mentally unstable beast, and it's awesome.


I love the fact that HHH was so confident that he could beat Brock heading in. Hey, maybe that's why they had Cena go over at ER, so that HHH was fooled into thinking he could beat him 8*D. Lol. Seriously though, he legit thought he could go toe to toe with Lesnar and in the beginning he managed to stay out of trouble. This is my house. This is WWE not UFC. He thought he could do it. Then the gloves came off and he absolutely got his ass handed to him _and_ got his arm broken again. Him saying sorry at the end was an awesome touch and while the you tapped out chants were obviously not expected, I reckon they play perfectly into what he could and should say tonight. What was he apologizing for and to who? To the fans? To Stephanie? To the company? To Shawn? To _himself_? It's just another layer that makes me appreciate what they did even more. The expression on his face at the end was awesome for me too because it looked like acceptance of the fact that he got beat and badly at that. _He_ made the challenge and ultimately _he_ lost the match. The fact that he just accepted it so quickly is rather intriguing to me.

As for Brock, he just has a surreal aura around him that nobody else in the WWE has ever had before, not even Brock himself in his first run. It really is incredible. Both this match and the match with Cena didn't feel like WWE matches to me. It was like I was watching something just teetering off the edge if that makes sense. I simply adore that element to both matches which is probably why I rate them so highly lol. I was pissed after Cena went over at ER and a lot of damage was done with that loss but it has to be said and credit where it's due, they managed to offset that damage last night. Lesnar said he would fuck HHH up and he did, on his own, with no help, no weapons, nothing. He did it with his bare hands and humbled one of WWE's 'toughest' guys ever. Before this match the idea of Taker/Lesnar didn't appeal to me at all. Now it's something I will highly look forward to if it happens. Brock may not be a talker but fuck me can the man fight lol. He is just sheer physical presence personified and legitimately looks like he enjoys hurting people. It's awesome. 2 matches this year and 2 matches in my top 5. DAT BORK.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm so impressed that Cole actually calls the Kimura correctly. All last night the Koji Clutch was suddenly the Anaconda Vice.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So after watching Lesnar/HHH again, I do appreciate the psychology of the match a little bit more. Still though the pace and Lesnar's repeated offense keep it from being a great match as it's just way too boring. I honestly struggle how people enjoyed the match as much as they apparently did... but then again it's the same story for the last two Taker/HHH WM matches. I just can't get into matches that sacrifice action for drama/storytelling... though the drama/storytelling was very tame in comparison to the two Taker/HHH matches.

I still have it at ***, but it's a higher *** match now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I put Lesnar vs HHH at ***1/2. Dead crowd, lack of intensity and Lesnar going for the Kimura too many times brings it down a notch but the psychology and selling of the weak body-parts was great. Good effort from both men and unlike Lesnar/Cena, the right man won this time.

Downloaded SummerSlam earlier today and when I get the time, I'll watch the more relevant matches (Jericho/Ziggler, Mysterio/The Moz, triple threat and Sheamus/Alboreto).


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

What the hell, MOTYC ratings? I'm sorry, there's no way. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar was awful.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm really surprised at the positivity for HHH vs. Lesnar in this thread. Surprised people are mixed about this.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Triple H v. Lesnar is the first match I've looked forward to that's not at Mania maybe since last years Punk/Cena feud. Lots of mixed reviews, I suppose I'll just have to find it and watch it myself...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm not surprised. I knew after watching it that it was going to be a marmite match lol. I can fully understand why those who didn't like it didn't like it. Watching Lesnar is truly a spectacle for me though in this current run of his so anything he does I'm going to be glued to the screen. Throw in HHH and I'm sold lol. Cena/Lesnar is the better match and HHH/Lesnar wasn't what I was expecting but I still enjoyed the hell out of it for different reasons than what I thought I would heading in.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Lesnar was pretty much the same on here the day after. Some people loved it, some hated it. Lesnar matches in 2012 are just so different from what we're used to with both Lesnar and WWE in general. Understandable that some people wouldn't like them.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Surprised to see many very positive reviews about the match after watching it. I'd give it maybe ** at best. Awful, and nearly impossible to get into. Which shows because the crowd was silent throughout the thing. I didn't like Cena/Lesnar that much either, but it was miles better than this. It was boring, with an awful pace. As for the rest of the show,

Ziggler vs. Jericho - ***1/4
Bryan vs. Kane - **1/2
Miz vs. Mysterio - **3/4
Sheamus vs. Del Rio - ***
Punk vs. Cena vs. Show - ***

Nothing spectacular. Only match I was invested in was the WWE championship match. The best on the card however was the opening match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Cena/Lesnar was pretty much the same on here the day after. Some people loved it, some hated it. Lesnar matches in 2012 are just so different from what we're used to with both Lesnar and WWE in general. Understandable that some people wouldn't like them.


Yep. If you can't dig Lesnar in his current form then you really aren't going to enjoy his matches for the most part. I personally love the aura he brings. If he had beat Cena at ER I would have given that match the full 5. I actually did at one point, rewatched it, got seriously pissed the hell off at the finish and realized I couldn't call it perfect lol.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm so impressed that Cole actually calls the Kimura correctly. All last night the Koji Clutch was suddenly the Anaconda Vice.


I am more surprised Lawler called ADR's enziguri on Sheamus. Rather than "right leg".


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I rewatched the two world title matches from WM23 back to back, and I've got to say, I think HBK/Cena is far and away the better match. DAVE/Taker is just a fun *** spotfest imo, but HBK/Cena is brilliant. ****1/2, verging on ****3/4.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HBK/Cena Raw > Taker/Batista Mania > HBK/Cena Mania imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Batista WM > Taker/Batisa CS > HBK/Cena Raw > Taker/Batista BL (LMS) > Taker/Batista SS (HIAC) > HBK/Cena WM > Taker/Batista SD (Cage)



Lowest rated match there is ***3/4 too. Highest is ****1/2.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Batista WM is considerably better than the HBK/Cena WM match imo. Granted HBK/Cena isn't bad, but Taker/Batista is a classic. The HBK/Cena Raw match however is very very close to the Taker/Batista WM, but I still gotta give it to Taker/Batista WM and I have it as my MOTY.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Taker/Batista @ Wrestlemania - **** 1/2
HBK/Cena on Raw - **** 
HBK/Cena @ Wrestlemania - *** 3/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Like I said, HHH/Lesnar did things well, but there just wasn't enough good in it to make up for the slow pace and plodding nature. The main problem I had with it is how personal and 'violent' they were hyping the match to be...when I knew full well HHH would never take the sort of beating that would reflect the promotion of the match. That isn't me advocating HHH to let Lesnar stiff the shit out of him and blade or anything, its just that you knew someone like Cena would bump huge and eat that sort of beating, whereas HHH would make it a WWE style brawl filled with a slow pace and more emphasis on 'DRAMA' & 'STORYTELLING' and it would just not live up to what they billed it as.

I can see why people liked HHH underestimating the power and monster Lesnar is, but tbh both Lesnar matches should prove just how far ahead of HHH Cena is as a babyface worker. He bumped massively and let himself work from the bottom the entire match, he let himself look entirely vulnerable and like he was fighting for his life throughout and timed his big comeback spots superbly, HHH spent the first portion of the match working fairly evenly with Lesnar and as a result of not having anywhere close to the beating Lesnar gave Cena, as well as working far more even rather than be a clear underdog the match had little heat and HHH's hope spots despite being well thought out in a psychology sense just didn't come off nearly as well as Cena's hope spots. The Lesnar intestine/stomach injury was a smart plan which I have no issues with, but despite Lesnar selling the injury superbly the poor structure and pace meant it didn't come close to the Cena deadlift powerslam out of the Kimura spot.

I just think HHH more often than not tries admirably to promote his big matches like you're going to see something unique and life-changing, but he's insistent on keeping to his played out main event formula that no matter how big his opponent is his very big matches feel the same. Did HHH really feel in that much of a war with Lesnar compared to Undertaker at Wrestlemania? Was there really ever a sense that HHH's career and body was about to be destroyed by Lesnar? If anything it was a surprisingly clean albeit stiffer than usual HHH match, but it never came close to replicating the animosity and violence Lesnar unleashed on Cena, which really hurts the match when the feud was promoted as supposedly more personal than the Cena match and which had received infinite more promotion and build as something HHH would live to regret.

I dunno, point of this really is that HHH needs to throw away the Harley Race tapes and start watching some Jerry Lawler, Jim Duggan, Terry Funk & Stan Hansen tapes in order to understand how to properly work a violent and hate-filled brawl.


EDIT:

I prefer Cena/HBK Wrestlemania & London to Batista/Taker as a series, but I really do love Batista/Taker for whatever reason. Given my tastes I really shouldn't like it nearly as much as I do, but I always come out of it thinking they worked a very smart sprint match which perfectly captured the 'Clash Of The Titans' atmosphere surrounding the match and which was a very well worked face/face main event match. The big spots are built to well and they don't go into finisher overkill but rather end the match just as it peaks with the nearfalls and questions about whether Batista can end the streak.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

HBK/Cena Raw > HBK/Cena WM > Taker/Batista WM IMO


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I couldn't get into the Lesnar/Triple H match as much as I hoped I would. Lesnar/Cena felt like it was on a whole other level compared to it. It was still a decent match but really, to me, it was nothing more than decent.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If Lesnar had beat Cena I would have doled out 6* lol. That match is something that will never be replicated imo. It was just surreal.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Just finished watching Lesnar/HHH. Personally I loved it. Thought it was great and just had that huge match feel. **** for me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> If Lesnar had beat Cena I would have doled out 6* lol. That match is something that will never be replicated imo. It was just surreal.


:agree: It was amazing being there live and because Lesnar's beastly heel performance and Cena's courageous babyface performance were so great most of us in the audience rooted for the good guy to come out on top. In the moment I couldn't even think about how wrong of a decision it was to have Lesnar lose because the match was so incredible. I still haven't seen it on TV yet.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Imagine they actually followed through with Cena supposedly losing everything he held dear after his loss to Rock at Mania. Then he lost to Lesnar. Then he was a broken man and the next time he won the title was a year later after having to build himself up again. That would have owned. Cena's babyface performances in matches, well, I'd put them way up there as some of the best tbh. With the right opponent he plays the vulnerable babyface to perfection. It's what happens before and after the matches that are my issues with him these days. He has no fucking personality. Apply him to any situation and he will react the same. On the same token as Cena/Lesnar gaining had Lesnar won, I think HHH/Lesnar would have taken a hit had HHH won. Lesnar winning was absolutely the right call and the story to come from it is bootiful. 

*My Fav 5 Shucky Ducky:*

1) Taker/HHH, Mania 28 *******
2) Cena/Lesnar, ER *****3/4*
3) Punk/Bryan, OTL *****1/2*
4) HHH/Lesnar, SS *****1/4*
5) Punk/Jericho, ER *****1/4*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Meh the more I watch it the more I love the finish. Cena gets the shit beat out of him the entire match, slowly but surely the crowd turns in his favour and with what is seemingly his last hope he catches the cocky and unsuspecting monster with one shot, then summons every last ounch of energy in his body and pins him before the monster can regain his composure. Made Lesnar look like the biggest badass on the planet, who left a beating that hadn't been seen before or after and made Cena look like the ace by managing to find a way against all the odds to put the monster down. I get Cena losing and then returning down the line could have made for a great angle, but Lesnar would have eaten a loss at some point to Cena. Might as well have him lose early when you can still play it as his arrogance costing him victory in a split second and then make the story all about how he comes back bigger and badder than before and finds another level with his attitude firmly improved.

I seriously don't get why some people at the time suddenly called the match shit because of the finish. A bad finish can limit a match from progressing past a certain point, but it doesn't negate the great work that went on before. Cena bled, bumped huge and timed his offence wonderfully and Lesnar looked amazing as this vicious animal injuring Cena at every turn. Part of what made it so awesome was he didn't get bogged down in limbwork, he just grabbed Cena's arm and locked in the Kimura and fucked his arm up instantly. Everything he did looked disgustingly stiff (knee shots to the ribs especially) and the match had some amazing visuals, from Cena staggering back onto the apron after eating the inital beating, to Lesnar's shocked face after the Backlund powerslam spot out of the Kimura, to Cena's comeback and begging Lesnar to turn around and unleashing his last burst of energy. It was an incredible underdog vs monster battle, which allowed Lesnar to look as unstoppable as he could and to work a match totally unique and violent compared to a standard WWE hardcore match, and placed Cena in his best match formula against arguably the best monster opponent he could be given in 2012 WWE.


EDIT: Top 5:

1. Cena vs Lesnar ER
2. Bryan vs Punk OTL
3. Bryan vs Sheamus ER
4. William Regal vs Dean Ambrose FCW
5. Punk vs Henry 04/02 RAW


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That horrible finish ruined everything because Cena was back to being the same shitty smiling superman. Never has the finish of a wrestling match pissed me off so much. Ruined the entire enjoyment of the PPV for me. But now when I look at it from a non-biased standpoint, it was an amazing match with a unique feel. The blood and the heavy beating. Don't know why everyone was like "I'm now rooting for Cena". I wanted Lesnar to beat his ass so fucking bad that he would send Cena's ass home for a whole year or something. I was excited about the match just to see Cena DESTROYED, I got it but in the end, that smiling cunt fucked it up.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The finish takes away from the match for me a little bit in terms of the rating. I think it was the wrong decision, a stupid decision and was one of the worst examples of Cena's, at times, ridiculous babyface booking ever. I'm looking at you Miz/Cena I Quit. The vast amount of possibilities that could have emerged had Cena lost were completely wasted too which fucks me off. Despite all that though, I still love the match and think it quite possibly could be one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The booking the night after did kill the match, Cena winning but getting so badly hurt in the process he had to take time off would have worked brilliantly, and in the meantime if Lesnar had somehow won the title you could have built to Cena returning and then have Lesnar get his win back. 

That being said, if Lesnar beats Cena he has to face Punk since bar HHH he had no-one else to face. At least in defeat Lesnar had an excuse to stay away and pick his time before having another match, as much as Lesnar killing everyone before having a big money showdown vs Cena/Rock/Taker would own WWE just doesn't have the depth in their roster to put Lesnar against credible guys. Sure the likes of Bryan, Sheamus and Punk would work well with Lesnar, but each would have to lose to Lesnar and none of them could really envoke that big match atmosphere that Cena, HHH, Rock and Taker could.

All I took away from ER was that Lesnar could have won at any point, but his arrogance and desire to hurt Cena cost him and despite beating the piss out of Cena, Cena had that split second to sneak out the unlikeliest of wins. Lesnar having to return with a newfound determined attitude rather than taking his opponents lightly in of itself could have been a wonderful storyline, the problem is that keeping him as a semi-occurring attraction limits what you can do with him when he's not facing a big name in the company, and means its hard to keep his momentum running in between programs when he doesn't wrestle for months in between.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So glad I ordered ER and watched it live this year. Literally on the edge of my seat (and occasionally jumping ) during the Cena/Lesnar match. Anywho, I'll join in on this:

*Top 5 2012 so far*
1. Undertaker Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 28 - ****3/4
2. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit - ****3/4 (I need to watch this and my #1 back to back because every time I re-watch this match, I love it more and more lol)
3. CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - WrestleMania 28 - ****1/2
4. Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode - HardCORE Justice - ****1/2
5. Daniel Bryan Vs Sheamus - Extreme Rules - ****1/2

And to keep it just WWE, #6 overall aka #5 for just WWE: John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules - ****1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock winning because of his arrogance and getting caught by a few moves at the end would have been fine with me if it wasn't the standard finish to a standard Cena match every week. The fact that Lesnar killed him for 99% and then gets hit by literally 2 moves iirc to get beat doesn't sit well with me at all. Ugh. The more I think about it the more it annoys me lol.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Hesitant to give full fives, Cal?


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Brock winning because of his arrogance and getting caught by a few moves at the end would have been fine with me if it wasn't the standard finish to a standard Cena match every week. The fact that Lesnar killed him for 99% and then gets hit by literally 2 moves iirc to get beat doesn't sit well with me at all. Ugh. The more I think about it the more it annoys me lol.


Saddest thing was that was followed up by "INTENSE" JOHN CENA VS THE "GIANT" BIG SHOW AND "CORPORATE" JOHNNY.

All the while we got lolpunknotmaineventing with ****3/4 star and **** star matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Top 5 for me

1. Punk/Bryan - OTL - ****3/4
2. Trips/Taker - WM - ****1/2
3. Punk/Jericho - WM - ****1/2
4. Cena/Lesnar - ER - ****1/2
5. Punk/Henry - Raw 4/2 - ****1/4

Honorable mentions to Sheamus/Bryan (****1/4), Bryan/Punk MITB (****), Punk/Jericho ER (****), Ziggler/Sheamus (***3/4), Ziggler/Jericho (***3/4) and Punk/Henry Raw UK (***3/4)

This year has OWNED in terms of wrestling.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*WWE Top 5 Of The Year*

Punk/Bryan @ Over The Limit - **** 3/4
Fella/Bryan @ Extreme Rules - **** 1/2
Bork/Cena @ Extreme Rules - Unrateable
Punk/Henry 1st Match - **** 1/4
Punk/Jericho @ Extreme Rules - **** 1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huganomics said:


> Hesitant to give full fives, Cal?


Nope . Good chance before the year is over I'll throw ***** at Bryan Vs Punk lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The thing that bothered me most about Cena/Lesnar isn't the finish, but the post-match bullshit. Cena took the biggest beating of his life, cuts a sympathy promo about taking time off that puts HHH's sob story last night to shame, then shows up the very next night as good as new. Fuck. That.

edit - why not?

Taker/Trips WM - ****3/4
Cena/Lesnar ER - ****1/2
Bryan/Punk OTL - ****1/2
Bryan/Sheamus ER - ****1/2
Jericho/Punk WM - ****1/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I need to fucking see Aries/Roode from HC Justice. I loved the first one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That wasn't even close to the 'standard Cena finish'. He got the utter shit kicked out of him, bled off of some ridiculous elbow strikes, had his left arm nearly separated by a Kimura and got suplexed and bumped from Chicago to Miami. Lesnar was unleashing offence never before seen in the company and that combined with his presence made for a legitimate monster. Freakin' Umaga didn't come close to making Cena look as vulnerable and sympathetic as Lesnar did. Cena unleashing a 2-3 minute comeback flurry would have sucked, the finish allowed him to get just enough in to highlight him as a company ace who can always find a way to win, but protecting Lesnar by ensuring he got caught by a quick comeback and was pinned before he could even regain his composure. He was also hit with steel chain right off the skull and a subsequent AA onto the steel steps, that's as close to a legitimate pinfall Cena will ever get on an opponent for the foreseeable future and the fact it was one of the very few bits of offence he managed to get in just got over how utterly dominant Lesnar had been, and how much it took for Cena to somehow find an unlikely way to win. There's a shit superman finish like the I Quit match vs Miz, and then there's bumping and selling your ass off for 20 minutes and building to that all or nothing comeback which has an entire arena rooting for you to pin this monstrous bastard.

Lesnar losing last night would have been disastrous because he wasn't allowed to look nearly as good as he was in Chicago. Sure his selling was on point and they have this right balance where he sells enough to look human but still be a motherfucking machine on offence, but no matter how psychologically succint his armwork was he didn't look nearly as ferocious in the beating he gave HHH compared to the one he unleashed on Cena. Last night he looked like a more aggressive heel, doing stuff that other guys would do but doing it in such a way it looked far more legit and vicious. In Chicago he looked on another planet to any other WWE heel between his offence and presence, he might have lost but he absolutely destroyed the company ace with little sweat and if anything was simply beaten by his own arrogance and reckless approach. Cena looked a million dollars and was finally given a set of balls as a character, the subsequent Johnny Ace feud killed what good could have come from that finish, because Cena finally having some depth and maturity could have been fresh for the character, and Lesnar returning down the line to dethrone Cena as WWE Champion could have made for quite the 'Oh Shit, Lesnar just killed Cena: he's even stronger than he was at Extreme Rules, we're all fucked' moment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> I need to fucking see Aries/Roode from HC Justice. I loved the first one.


Blows their first match away easily imo, and I loved their first match (***3/4). TNA have also given us some awesome matches this year too. A top 20 for WWE and TNA combined probably wouldn't drop below ***3/4 ratings lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Blows their first match away easily imo, and I loved their first match (***3/4). TNA have also given us some awesome matches this year too. A top 20 for WWE and TNA combined probably wouldn't drop below ***3/4 ratings lol.


That's awesome to hear. (Y)

Agreed. They've been pumping out great stuff too. I'd even throw RAY/PARKS in the top 20 this year but I can't even logically give that match a rating. Just so epic though. :lmao

What do you think of Aries/Joe from Slammiversary?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> That wasn't even close to the 'standard Cena finish'. He got the utter shit kicked out of him, bled off of some ridiculous elbow strikes, had his left arm nearly separated by a Kimura and got suplexed and bumped from Chicago to Miami. Lesnar was unleashing offence never before seen in the company and that combined with his presence made for a legitimate monster. Freakin' Umaga didn't come close to making Cena look as vulnerable and sympathetic as Lesnar did. Cena unleashing a 2-3 minute comeback flurry would have sucked, the finish allowed him to get just enough in to highlight him as a company ace who can always find a way to win, but protecting Lesnar by ensuring he got caught by a quick comeback and was pinned before he could even regain his composure. He was also hit with steel chain right off the skull and a subsequent AA onto the steel steps, that's as close to a legitimate pinfall Cena will ever get on an opponent for the foreseeable future and the fact it was one of the very few bits of offence he managed to get in just got over how utterly dominant Lesnar had been, and how much it took for Cena to somehow find an unlikely way to win. There's a shit superman finish like the I Quit match vs Miz, and then there's bumping and selling your ass off for 20 minutes and building to that all or nothing comeback which has an entire arena rooting for you to pin this monstrous bastard.
> 
> Lesnar losing last night would have been disastrous because he wasn't allowed to look nearly as good as he was in Chicago. Sure his selling was on point and they have this right balance where he sells enough to look human but still be a motherfucking machine on offence, but no matter how psychologically succint his armwork was he didn't look nearly as ferocious in the beating he gave HHH compared to the one he unleashed on Cena. Last night he looked like a more aggressive heel, doing stuff that other guys would do but doing it in such a way it looked far more legit and vicious. In Chicago he looked on another planet to any other WWE heel between his offence and presence, he might have lost but he absolutely destroyed the company ace with little sweat and if anything was simply beaten by his own arrogance and reckless approach. Cena looked a million dollars and was finally given a set of balls as a character, the subsequent Johnny Ace feud killed what good could have come from that finish, because Cena finally having some depth and maturity could have been fresh for the character, and Lesnar returning down the line to dethrone Cena as WWE Champion could have made for quite the 'Oh Shit, Lesnar just killed Cena: he's even stronger than he was at Extreme Rules, we're all fucked' moment.


Agreed w/everything you said 100%. Couldn't have said it any better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> That's awesome to hear. (Y)
> 
> Agreed. They've been pumping out great stuff too. I'd even throw RAY/PARKS in the top 20 this year but I can't even logically give that match a rating. Just so epic though. :lmao
> 
> What do you think of Aries/Joe from Slammiversary?


Ray/Parks is fucking awesome and NEEDS to be in the top 20. 

Aries/Joe was great, ***3/4 for that too. Only match above that rating in TNA this year so far imo is Aries/Roode HJ.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I agree with Cal about Aries/Roode II being above their first encounter. I fucking hate a lot of Roode's control segments but he actually impressed me for the first time in that match, did well stooging and then had a nice balance between intensely applied moves and some impressive looking counters to ground Aries. They built well to Aries' comeback offence and despite the utterly shit finish, the followup was really well done with Aries doing his signature dive into the championship belt and looking KO'd. Their first match whilst good had some sloppy moments and a dull middle, although the finishing stretch was incredibly well done and all the teases to a screwjob finish along with the pro-Aries crowd made for a satisfying finish.

Bully Ray vs Aries is still my #1 match from TNA this year though, Aries/Roode II would be next. Not interested in anything else because bar the odd match I loathe the TNA style of wrestling and am past the point where I expect to come around to it.

EDIT: forgot about Bully Ray vs Joseph Park. I was legit shocked at how well they did the non wrestler angle with Park, every little detail from him swinging the chair the wrong way just made for a completely believeable angle and they worked it tremendously. I have no doubt the fact Bully Ray was his opponent makes for no coincidence the match turned out as well as it did, since Ray is right there with Aries as the best worker in TNA. But TNA actually left me shocked at how well that match turned out.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Top 10 matches of the year thus far, in my opinion:

1. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: Undertaker vs. Triple H_ - ****1/2
2. _Over the Limit 2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****1/2
3. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
4. _Extreme Rules 2012: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
5. _Extreme Rules 2012: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****
6. _WWE RAW 4/2/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ****
7. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: John Cena vs. The Rock_ - ***3/4
8. _Money in the Bank 2012: Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4_
9. _Over the Limit 2012: Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio_ - ***3/4
10. _Money in the Bank 2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ***3/4

What a year so far.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

> He got the utter shit kicked out of him, bled off of some ridiculous elbow strikes, had his left arm nearly separated by a Kimura and got suplexed and bumped from Chicago to Miami. Lesnar was unleashing offence never before seen in the company and that combined with his presence made for a legitimate monster.


Yes...and then Cena won. Then he acted like he would be gone for a bit...and then he came out the next night smiling like nothing happened. Brock was an unstoppable monster until he got beat. Him going over HHH gives him a lot of much needed momentum back but it's still always going to be in the back of everybody's mind that he can be stopped because Cena was able to find a way to beat him even after getting the shit kicked out of him the entire time. HHH got more offense in than Cena and he couldn't beat him. HHH managed to work over Lesnar's one weak spot and he couldn't beat him. cena gets his ass handed to him and wins with 2 moves at the end. I hate to sound like the typical Cena hater when I say that because I'm a huge Cena mark but I can't get past that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think if Cena did end up taking some time off after the Cena/Lesnar match, the finish wouldn't have had such a negative effect on people.

I honestly think that the way they put together the finishing stretch was the best you can do if you plan on having Cena win.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> I think if Cena did end up taking some time off after the Cena/Lesnar match, the finish wouldn't have had such a negative effect on people.


This. Had Cena actually sold the beating he took, the finish wouldn't carry such a negative connotation.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

He still shouldn't have won. Short of him pulling out a shotgun and killing Lesnar to get the fall, no scenario is best because he shouldn't have won.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> *text*


That only further made the finish SuperCena. After all the elbows and abuse he took, Cena should not have even been able to stand up. Yet, his shitty steel chain (why was it brought back just to make two appearances, anyways?) and a crappy FU on the steel steps was enough to beat this monster heel. By far the worst finish in a match EVER. Even worse than Cena's other superman comebacks and Hornswoggle winning any match.

For top 5 matches of the year:
1. Undertaker/HHH - WM28 (****3/4) - If on a rewatch it holds up as much as the live watch, I'll bring it up a notch to 5.
2. Lesnar/Cena - ER (****1/2) - Would have been 5 had it not been for the shitty finish. So bad that it should probably be knocked down to 1 star. FUCK YOU CENA!
3. The Rock/Cena - WM28 (****1/2) - Excellent match despite Rock's ring-rust and it being a little slow. And great finish for a change.
4. Sheamus/Orton/Del Rio/Jericho - OTL (****1/4) - F4W with four of the best workers in the company. Absolutely love the non-stop action which matches like this usually have. 
5. Sheamus/Bryan (****1/4) - Absolutely awesome, nothing more needs to be said.

Honorable mention goes to Punk/Bryan at OTL.

---------------

And I just finished watching Ziggler/Jericho. ***1/4, a standard quality match which we've come to expect from these guys, nothing extraordinary, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Yes...and then Cena won. Then he acted like he would be gone for a bit...and then he came out the next night smiling like nothing happened. Brock was an unstoppable monster until he got beat. Him going over HHH gives him a lot of much needed momentum back but it's still always going to be in the back of everybody's mind that he can be stopped because Cena was able to find a way to beat him even after getting the shit kicked out of him the entire time. HHH got more offense in than Cena and he couldn't beat him. HHH managed to work over Lesnar's one weak spot and he couldn't beat him. cena gets his ass handed to him and wins with 2 moves at the end. I hate to sound like the typical Cena hater when I say that because I'm a huge Cena mark but I can't get past that.


That doesn't make the actual finish shit, just the execution of the follow-up. If Cena takes time off and sells the beating Lesnar unleashed on him Lesnar looks like the baddest mofo on the planet. Wins and losses mean little if Lesnar wrestled and beat everyone of his opponents the way he did to Cena that night, Miz could have a two year unbeaten streak and Lesnar could lose every big match he's involved in for a year and all it would take is him to wrestle like he did at ER and no-one would care.

Cena winning was a good move. He was going to get a win on Lesnar whether it was there or at the culmination of the feud, at least this way Lesnar was allowed to look almost unbeatable but just naiive enough to be outsmarted. Lesnar losing and then re-focusing and becoming an even more dangerous monster in of itself could have worked, and with Lesnar's skills, look and presence you do not have to worry about him looking like just another guy. You said yourself the minute you watched the match you just got caught up in the presence of the man and just had this eerie feeling HHH was fucked, that's something Lesnar alone possesses.

Cena winning with a quick comeback protected Lesnar, he lost because he was almost concussed and pinned shortly afterwards. If he'd have had to bump repeatedly for 2-3 minutes then I'd agree with it being a bad finish that cut his balls off. Instead he unleashed a beating and performance unlike anything I have ever seen in a WWE ring, and was protected enough that Cena looked like he just got incredibly lucky off of his own perseverance rather than out-classing Lesnar.

If Lesnar hadn't been allowed to look so scarily dominant I'd agree the loss could have killed him, as I said him losing to HHH last night would have been disastrous because HHH didn't make him look nearly as terrifying and dangerous as Cena did. Brock's performance however was so incredibly memorable that the finish could never kill him. It just made Cena look like a tough SOB the company could be glad to call on, everything after the match sucked admittedly but that doesn't make the actual finish in that point in time 'awful'. It just makes WWE's followup piss poor.



Choke2Death said:


> That only further made the finish SuperCena. After all the elbows and abuse he took, Cena should not have even been able to stand up. Yet, his shitty steel chain (why was it brought back just to make two appearances, anyways?) and a crappy FU on the steel steps was enough to beat this monster heel. By far the worst finish in a match EVER. Even worse than Cena's other superman comebacks and Hornswoggle winning any match.


Sweet jesus, so do you want Lesnar to never lose? Because I tell you now there is no way on earth Lesnar will ever be allowed to look as good as he did that night. Would you complain this much if Rock or Taker beat him in a much less violent and tame match? 

Super-Cena is when Cena just kills a guy dead, Miz dominated the match and was bitched out needlessly. Cena however sold his fucking arse off in the ER match, his comeback was built to as well as its ever been and it came off as Cena being a tough SOB refusing to die, rather than running around like he hadn't been touched. Watch how he crawls into the ring and utilises his facial expressions to convey the desperation in his eyes to finish Lesnar off. He sold that beating as something he had to overcome, but something which had left him in agony. Part of what hurt Miz is that despite controlling the majority of the match, he never really looked like much of a threat, which is where having Cena kill him dead makes him look even more of a joke.

Lesnar looked terrifying and a legit MONSTER, that was one of the most memorable performances and matches in years. The aftermath with Cena not taking time off and resetting back to his stale happy go lucky character ruined what potential that feud and finish had, but it doesn't make that finish the worst of all time and you're insane if you think that's comparable to a standard Cena TV match finish. The beating, the struggle, the selling, the bumping that went into that comeback made it an incredible comeback, does Eddie still standing at Judgement Day 2004 defy belief? Yes, but his performance, selling and build to his comeback makes it so memorable and valiant in spite of how logically he should have been dead.

Seriously how do you want Lesnar to lose a match in WWE? Because I guarantee you he won't ever be allowed to brutalise anyone like he did against Cena, and that will certainly lessen his aura when he's forced to work and lose more of a standard match compared to that once in a lifetime fight he had against Cena.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You're never going to change my mind about this lol. I hate the finish, I think it was stupid and it shouldn't have happened. All the what ifs in the world don't change the fact that they had pure gold with Lesnar and rather than actually use that to give Cena direction, he won and they pissed it away as usual. I also don't see why Cena would have eventually got a win at some stage during their feud if it was just a 1 match deal and even if that's the case, you don't have the face win the first match and then have the heel doing the chase to see if he can overcome the babyface. Brock Lesnar trying to over come John Cena? That's wrong on so many levels.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agree with everyone who has stated that Lesnar's mere presence in the ring is second to none. It's even more ominous a feeling than an Undertaker match in this day and age. When Lesnar comes to the ring you get a feeling of discomfort knowing that the opponent is about to get the shit knocked out of him. He's the only member of the roster that elicits that kind of feeling. He justifies that aura with the subtle (yet awesome) facial expressions/grins/intangibles (licking the blood off his gloves against Cena, bouncing up after taking a ridiculous plunge over the top rope against Cena, taking the gloves off before beating the shit out of HHH, etc). It's a big part of why these Lesnar main events are so different from anything we have ever seen in the WWE, including Lesnar's first go-around a decade ago. The guy comes off as inhuman for the most part, which is another reason why HHH finding Lesnar's weakness almost by accident when he launched Lesnar stomach first into the corner of the announce table was a superb touch (magnified by Lesnar's impeccable selling).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Of course Cena would have got a win back, if you want Lesnar to cripple Cena and take him off of TV you logically build to Cena's return and have him finally defeat the monster once and for all. No way in hell they'd just have Cena lose and not try to milk a dramatic rematch and have him finally regain his heat and come out of the feud looking even better.

Lesnar coming back, quickly becoming #1 contender and then beating the shit out of Cena but ultimately winning would have been a great angle. Makes Lesnar look even better since everyone expected Cena to overcome the odds again, and assuming they would have worked the match similar to ER Lesnar would have looked incredible brutalising Cena but this time getting the win. I appreciate people wanted Lesnar to just be some unbeatabale monster before losing at Wrestlemania and going home, but at the end of the day Rock or Taker beating him would never have been as good. Firstly Lesnar could never have that sort of match as he did with Cena against either of them, which would have meant a more standard and regulation WWE style match, and with Lesnar losing off of a Rock Bottom/Tombstone. At least with Cena he managed to be protected with the NO DQ stipulation, and looked as good as he ever could look on offence.

I appreciate people wanted him to win, but calling the worst finish of all time? That's just asinine and I swear to christ there is no way The Rock or The Undertaker will ever be able to beat Lesnar convincingly and make him look as good as he did at ER. He didn't look nearly as dominant at Summerslam, and that's where him losing would have really been detrimental to his aura.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lesnar just might be the most physically intimidating person ever lol. He just looks fucking scary, like he could kill you at any second. I don't know if this is appropriate or not but I'm kind of in love with his aura. :lmao Did I just type that? Lol. 

For the record, I have no problem with Lesnar losing a match, just not his first one back after 10 years in such a ridiculous fashion. He was everything Caida says he was...until he got beat.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I love his aura, too. It portrays a certain mystique that hasn't been seen in this sport in, well...forever. I've never felt uncomfortable watching a match before (aside from maybe Taker/Foley HIAC), but I get a certain feeling that something is going to go wrong (and I don't mean a botch, but a serious injury due to Lesnar's stiff/out of control mentality) every time he steps in a 2012 ring.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah I love his aura, too. It portrays a certain mystique that hasn't been seen in this sport in, well...forever. I've never felt uncomfortable watching a match before (aside from maybe Taker/Foley HIAC), but I get a certain feeling that something is going to go wrong (and I don't mean a botch, but a serious injury due to Lesnar's stiff/out of control mentality) every time he steps in a 2012 ring.


Same. When he took those gloves off last night I legit thought he was going to fuck HHH up lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Sweet jesus, so do you want Lesnar to never lose? Because I tell you now there is no way on earth Lesnar will ever be allowed to look as good as he did that night. Would you complain this much if Rock or Taker beat him in a much less violent and tame match?
> 
> Super-Cena is when Cena just kills a guy dead, Miz dominated the match and was bitched out needlessly. Cena however sold his fucking arse off in the ER match, his comeback was built to as well as its ever been and it came off as Cena being a tough SOB refusing to die, rather than running around like he hadn't been touched. Watch how he crawls into the ring and utilises his facial expressions to convey the desperation in his eyes to finish Lesnar off. He sold that beating as something he had to overcome, but something which had left him in agony. Part of what hurt Miz is that despite controlling the majority of the match, he never really looked like much of a threat, which is where having Cena kill him dead makes him look even more of a joke.
> 
> ...


If Lesnar is supposed to lose a match, I want it to be an even match like the one with HHH. I don't care about how strong he looks, if he's going to lose, I don't want them to force this "never give up" crap down my throat with Cena or anyone else for that matter. What kind of a monster is Lesnar when his 20 minutes of offense that leaves Cena laid out in a pool of his own blood is not good enough to keep him down for a three count but this huge monster is beatable by TWO FUCKING MOVES?

And the match with Brock IS SuperCena, even a bigger example of it than "I Quit" or his TV matches because the beating he takes is EVEN WORSE than usual. And if we wanna talk about the aftermath with him running around like he never had a finger laid on him, then the same can be said for the Brock match, except he had a bit of blood on his face but still had enough energy to smile and cut a phony promo about leaving. The comeback was just typical superhero bullshit, only difference being that he took a beating so bad that even his haters started feeling sorry for him. (Not me, though, Lesnar could have legit knocked him out cold and I wouldn't have any sympathy for this unbearable green goof) And the Eddie match is not really comparable since the excessive blood loss was never meant to happen. Cena was _meant_ to crawl around, bloodied, trying anything for a break away from the monster villain, except all of that was for nothing since he just had to perform two moves flawlessly to overcome the odds.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lesnar V Cena ER ****1/4

Lesnar V HHH SS *

I liked Lesnar V Cena a little more.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> If Lesnar is supposed to lose a match, I want it to be an even match like the one with HHH. I don't care about how strong he looks, if he's going to lose, I don't want them to force this "never give up" crap down my throat with Cena or anyone else for that matter. What kind of a monster is Lesnar when his 20 minutes of offense that leaves Cena laid out in a pool of his own blood is not good enough to keep him down for a three count but this huge monster is beatable by TWO FUCKING MOVES?
> 
> And the match with Brock IS SuperCena, even a bigger example of it than "I Quit" or his TV matches because the beating he takes is EVEN WORSE than usual. And if we wanna talk about the aftermath with him running around like he never had a finger laid on him, then the same can be said for the Brock match, except he had a bit of blood on his face but still had enough energy to smile and cut a phony promo about leaving. The comeback was just typical superhero bullshit, only difference being that he took a beating so bad that even his haters started feeling sorry for him. (Not me, though, Lesnar could have legit knocked him out cold and I wouldn't have any sympathy for this unbearable green goof) And the Eddie match is not really comparable since the excessive blood loss was never meant to happen. Cena was _meant_ to crawl around, bloodied, trying anything for a break away from the monster villain, except all of that was for nothing since he just had to perform two moves flawlessly to overcome the odds.



Ok, so you want Brock to lose to a near 50 year old Undertaker at Wrestlemania. Lesnar won't be able to look anywhere near as terrifying or dominating due to Taker's horrific injury riddled body, and he'll be confined to working a standard WWE match where he'll be relying entirely on his size to look credible. Taker will beat him after maybe 3 tombstones. Verdict: Lesnar still supposedly looks like a monster.

You want Brock to lose to a 40 year old below semi-regular guy like The Rock. Lesnar won't be able to look anywhere near as physical or impressive, and the match will be a tame WWE style match with nothing but signature moves. Rock hits a Rock Bottom and a People's Elbow and Lesnar the monster is tamed. Verdict: Lesnar still looks like a monster.

Brock bloodies, batters and decimates the company ace in a 20 minute violent spectacle unlike anything ever presented before us in a WWE ring. He licks blood onto his gloves, takes near neck breaking bumps, nearly separates Cena's shoulder, hits stiff as fuck germans, lariats and knees to the ribs, Cena is a bloody and limp mess barely able to stand. Cena heroically fights back and desperately lands a steel chain shot to the head and hits his finisher onto Steel Steps. Verdict: LESNAR GOT BURRIED. HE LOOKS LIKE TOTAL SHIT. SUPERCENA STRIKES AGAIN!!!!


That's the impression I get from you, and its insane. Lesnar looked legitimate, ferocious and dominating. He lost via Cena getting lucky, not because Cena no-sold the entire beating, or beat Lesnar's ass with relative ease. But because Cena in the space of 30 seconds managed to temporarily injure Brock and capitalise. Because unlike Lesnar, Cena wanted the win at any cost, whereas Lesnar had a blatant pin on Cena but with the ref down and him being more concerned with hurting Cena, didn't capitalise and win the match.

The Rock got beaten for 20 straight minutes by 5 men at Backlash 2000. Austin takes everyone out and suddenly Rock hits a spinebuster and springs magically for a people's elbow. OMG HHH IS BURRIED BECAUSE ROCK GOT LIKE 5% OFFENCE IN AND SOMEHOW WON!!! Wrong, Rock sold his ass off and they built his courage wonderfully and it came off as him realising this was a now or never opportunity thanks to Austin, and despite the injury he capitalised through sheer will.

Eddie Guerrero lost nearly a pint of blood at Judgement Day 2004. He could barely stand or perform his moves with any degree of accuracy, but somehow manages to muster enough resilience to wrestle nearly 15 more minutes and end the match on top of JBL. OMG JBL BURRIED, EDDIE WAS DAMN NEAR UNCONSCIOUS AND HE STILL COULDN'T PIN HIM!!!! Wrong, Eddie's performance was heroic and encapsulated his character. JBL looked dominant and on top, but Eddie somehow managed to find the strength to capitalise and brutalise JBL in return.

John Cena gets the shit beaten out of him for 20 minutes, he bleeds off of elbow strikes, gets kneed stiffly in the ribs, takes big bumps off of stiff lariats and german suplexes. Has his arm torn apart by the devastating kimura. He hits one desperation deadlift powerslam counter to remind his fans his opponent despite being a monster is still human, and that Cena can pull out a victory. Eventually the motherfucking monster damn near kills himself on a botched dive but still walks away wounded but still dominating, Cena realises he has one opportunity and with everything he has left suckers Lesnar into making a rash error. Once Brock is down, Cena crawls valiantly, he sells the blood loss and battered body, he holds his arm limp and gets himself ready to put away this monster. He cannot take much more, its now or never. He hits the finisher and wins, a valiant and heroic effort and it takes everything he had left in him to captialise on one error and win the match before Lesnar could regroup. OMG LESNAR IS JUST ANOTHER GUY!!!! Wrong, Cena's comeback was 20 minutes in the making, he went through hell and back, he was beaten, brutalised and could barely stand. But he wasn't done just yet, he had one opportunity, he's the company ace and just like every other top babyface in wrestling history he can pull a victory from the clutches of defeat. His opponent put in arguably the most devastating performance in company history, he looked like a legitimate monster of which we'd never seen. But after all, everyone can be beat.

Cena's comeback, like Eddie's and Rock's was built on selling, the pacing, getting little to no offence in but displaying emotion, selling and bumping like a madman and making his eventual comeback a do or die scenario. Rock, Cena and Eddie should never have been able to avoid defeat, but they managed to make quick comebacks which came off as everything they had left, they didn't no sell or run around looking fresh as a daisy, they built to a point in the match where they would finally have one shot to try and beat their opponent. And each one of them managed to take that opportunity, this wasn't some 7 minute TV match where they get briefly worked over. These comebacks were milked, they were hard earned, they were fought for, they were the difference between elation and despair.

And that is why they were excellent comebacks, and why their opponents managed to not look like total idiots. Each of their opponents prior to the finish were made to look legitimate, hateable and almost unbeatable, they were made to look larger than life and thus they managed to overcome the loss and come out the other end ok. People like Miz who couldn't look terrifying if their lives depended on it need great booking to not be killed by these superhuman comebacks, Miz's offence was nowhere near the level of Lesnar's, shit it wasn't even in the same stratosphere. He also has 0.0000000001% of Lesnar's aura and presence, and that is why The I Quit match was a shit finish, and why Lesnar/Cena was everything a babyface comeback should be.

You don't have to like it, but to compare that comeback to a standard sub 10 minute TV match comeback, where the selling, beating, bumping, build and emotion isn't even close to what Lesnar and Cena created in Chicago is painfully ignorant and astounding.

RANT OVER.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SC, I think we understand what you are saying (well, at least I do) and Lesnar looked like a beast but losing his first match back after the two moves is just something that does not and may never sit well with a lot of people. I think it's the losing in his first match back that really irritates people like it was mentioned earlier.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I appreciate that *Clique*, I understood where *Starbuck* in particular was coming from.

Its this guy calling the finish the worst of all time, saying that alone deserved a * rating instead of potentially the full five, calling it the worst example of a 'super cena' finish in history and arguing it to be worse than anything Hornswoggle affiliated that has really astounded me.

Hence the above wall of text outlining why Cena's comeback like Rock's at Backlash 2000 & Eddie's at Judgement Day 2004 (in case people can't be arsed reading my wall of text, which is understandable) was a comeback built on emotion, build, pacing and selling. Which goes against a typical 'Super Cena' comeback which often involves none of those aspects.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm on Team Caida. Lesnar looked 1000% more vicious at ER, wins and losses be damned.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SC, I enjoy your write-ups so no problem with walls of text.  You are one of my favorite posters and I admire your passion. 

Rewatched Lesnar/HHH, and I've come down a bit on it even though I still think it is a great main event. I think the atmosphere could have been more immersive. Still, Lesnar's aura and his offense on Triple H is entertaining to watch and I thought Lesnar and Hunter's strikes built up some good intensity in the fight. As mentioned already in this thread, the psychology and selling from both men was stellar. **** and a Top 10 WWE match for 2012.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Okay, maybe I was exaggerating a little but that finish was just _awful_. You gotta admit, it was terrible booking all around to build Lesnar as this untouchable monster that comes from a legitimate background (UFC) and then have Cena beat him with two moves after being able to take 20 minutes of punishment from Lesnar without any signs of being put down completely. That makes Cena stronger than Lesnar because he can still come back from 20 minutes of being destroyed whereas Lesnar was pinned after *two* fucking moves.

The Rock at least had assistance from Austin, who whipped everyone's ass by giving them a bunch of chair shots to their skulls. And Eddie, like said, just did a bad blade-job making his comeback look that much more heroic.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I understand it wasn't a popular finish, but to me the desperation, selling and build to Cena's comeback was on par with any comeback I've seen for years in the company. If Cena is going to win that match it has to be a quick comeback, because there was no way he could believably have kicked Brock's ass for 2-3 minutes with Lesnar bumping for everything. I took it as Cena heroically fighting through the pain, suckering Brock and hoping he could catch him off guard and pin him before Lesnar could regroup and resume the dominance. Cena's beating didn't make his victory embarassing, but as heroic as Eddie's and Rock's because his selling and pacing of the comeback was entirely on point.

WWE in their infinite wisdom botched the followup and any potential they could have mustered from the feud though, that much we can finally agree on.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think it's more smart to have Cena win with only a couple strong moves, rather than a barrage of them, if you're booking Cena to win that match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think Cena beating Lesnar is the problem. It's Cena beating Lesnar in the first match. Lesnar fucks Cena up for 15 minutes, Cena comes back and wins; that'd make a great final match, but Christ the booking decision to have Lesnar lose was dumb as ass. They ended a potentially amazing feud in one goddamn match. The only sensible reason I can think they would make him fall like that is because he could flake out on the company again and they don't trust him or something. I don't know. 

they had this set up PERFECTLY. Cena loses to a returning Rock, Cena is in for the "fight of his life" with the returning Lesnar, Cena (should have) takes the loss to Lesnar, and shit, Cena lost to fucking Johnny Ace at the PPV after that. I think the angle possibilities would have been tremendous. "John Cena can no longer win? Has he lost it!?" I think that could go on until he beats the man he first lost to in the Rock whenever (if?) they have their re-match. I'm sure they'd want to run Cena v Rock and Lesnar again, and Cena could each second round match. 

The Lesnar possibilities are also amazing. Who in the blue fuck has beaten Cena and HHH clean in one year, let ALONE being the only two matches that guy had the entire 12 months (so far). If they want to run Lesnar v Taker then that'd be perect set-up......hell, that was perfect set-up for Lesnar v _Anyone_ in 2002/03/04. "I've beaten Hogan, I've beaten Angle, I've beaten Rock, I've beaten Taker - you will lose."

So yeah, I'm the camp of "They Fucked This Up." Just like they did with CM Punk last year, so I won't be surprised anymore.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Lesnar just might be the most physically intimidating person ever lol. He just looks fucking scary, like he could kill you at any second. I don't know if this is appropriate or not but I'm kind of in love with his aura. :lmao Did I just type that? Lol.


Yeah, same. Intensity is second to none on that guy. Made me a bigtime mark of his, not gonna lie.

Oh and also, I had no problem with the Cena/Lesnar ending. It's in my top 5 for 2012 along with End of an Era, Sheamus/Bryan, HHH/Lesnar and an unnamed fifth which I haven't decided on yet.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The only problem I have with the finish (got over Cena winning ) is that Brock got pinned on the steps lol.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I can see where both camps are coming from on the ending to Cena/Lesnar. IMO in the context of the match, the finish was fucking perfect, but in the context of previous booking (Cena losing to Rock etc) and longer term booking (Cena leaving, coming back to face Lesnar again etc) it was the wrong finish.

Btw, might as well go for a top 5 list like everyone else...

Bryan/Punk (OTL) ****1/2
Bryan/Sheamus (ER) ****1/4
Punk/Jericho (ER) ****1/4
Punk/Jericho (WM) ****
Punk/Henry (RAW 16/4) ****

That's without Lesnar/Cena which I just can't really rate until I see it for a third time, but it was fucking amazing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Still watching 2006 SmackDowns here and there, and man the Angle/Taker re-match was SO good. Feels like a top 5 Angle match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It;s the bloody fucking speech Cena does after the match too, complete tosser.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Still watching 2006 SmackDowns here and there, and man the Angle/Taker re-match was SO good. Feels like a top 5 Angle match.


You're really making me excited about 2006 with this. I've watched a handful of episodes from both Raw & SD here and there and Raw, specially, has been nothing special which has sort of made me buy into the idea that 2006 was a bad year.

Unfortunately, though, I'll have to download the whole pack for 2006 (as not many episodes are directly streamable from youtube and other places) rather than just youtube it like I have been doing with 2003 (and will do with 2004).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just bought SummerSlam 02 since its going cheap on SV and is going to be discontinued once its sold out! Same for some 03 PPV's, and well as a couple from 06 and 07. Seems odd that they would just stop making them.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Angle/Mysterio = :hb

The pace to that match is insane.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One of the few Angle matches with THAT kind of pace that isn't just good, but awesome. No surprise though, he is working with someone far more deserving of being called one of the GOAT than himself.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. Mysterio at that time was untouchable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd say he's still pretty untouchable now. Probably the most consistent performer of the last... 20 years tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

His knee injuries/age have slowed him down a bit, but he's still very consistent, especially for the type of worker he is. He almost never botches, either. Everything is smooth and fluid. I just meant that he was on an entirely different level back then. He's still one of the best.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah, back then his knees weren't nearly as fucked so he has slowed down a lot since, but I'll be damned if him slowing down even just a little from the mid-90's hasn't made him into one of the best workers on the planet.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No arguments there. I was actually really impressed with his match at Summerslam against The Miz. A lot of people seemed to dislike it from what I've read, but I thought they worked very well together and Miz pulled off some intuitive counters and new offense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I haven't seen it. Can't stand The Jiz .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm not his biggest fan either but I was into the match (as was the crowd towards the end). There was an exciting finish sequence and I was surprised that Miz was able to keep up.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Re-watched HHH/Lesnar. I love Brock Lesnar. That is all.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Re-watched HHH/Lesnar. I love Brock Lesnar. That is all.


This x1000


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I need to find a HQ copy of Cena/Lesnar. I don't have one and I want to watch it again so badly after all the talking about it I've done recently. Seriously though, I actually love Brock. Absolutely compelling stuff. Can't take my eyes off the screen when he's on it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I just watched it again yesterday after all the talk about it and HHH/Lesnar. The flying knee spot where he nearly kills himself (and you legit think his knee is blown out) only to have him pop right up and do his "fighting stance dance" and smile is the greatest single moment of the year. The guy's style is so reckless and for a man his size it's just amazing to watch.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My favorite Brock moment has to be him taking the gloves off on Sunday. That was just a total BROK GNA FUCK DAT GAME UP moment lol. I loved it. I heart you Brock, please don't kill me lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Gloves off + SMILE = SHIT IS GOING DOWN


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I need to buy Extreme Rules 2012 on DVD since it has three of the best matches of the year, I was there live and have yet to see the show from a TV perspective, and it is arguably the best PPV of the year along with WrestleMania.

I also want to pick up the Best PPV Matches 2011 DVD and Brock Lesnar set when it is released.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I feel the feeling that he's feeling.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ER was awesome. Very fun show, with 3 very good matches (although I'm not as high on Jericho/Punk as others). Bryan/Sheamus and BROCK/Cena are two of my top 5 of the year, though.

Details on the BROCK set? Haven't heard anything about it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

From *wwedvdnews*

*Brock Lesnar: Here Comes The Pain Collector's Edition*

This 3-Disc DVD and 2-Disc Blu-ray is released in the United States on October 30th [order yours] and also in October for fans in the UK and Europe (when pre-ordering at Silvervision.co.uk). Australian fans can order a copy at WWEDVD.com.au.

*DISC 1*

The night after WrestleMania XXVIII, Brock Lesnar made a shocking return to the ring and leveled John Cena with an F-5, sending a message that after eight years, the pain is back! In 2002 and 2003, The Next Big Thing brought it to the biggest and baddest competition in WWE, becoming the youngest WWE Champion of all time and a household name virtually overnight. His awe-inspiring physique, amateur championship pedigree and affinity for punishing opponents made him an unstoppable force in the ring. Now, after years of dominating the MMA scene, Brock is back and looking to steamroll the biggest Superstars of today. This rerelease of the 2003 DVD, Here Comes the Pain, includes the original documentary that chronicles Brock’s meteoric rise to fame, as well as six hours of additional matches not included on the original DVD! Plus, hear Brock’s controversial comments upon his return to sport entertainment! . Fans can experience classic matches against Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton and many more!



Growing Up

Debut: Destruction

King Brock

Brock vs. Rock

Battling the Dead Man

Surviving the Big Show

Wrestling Machines

Backlash

Stretcher Match

Brock Lesnar makes his WWE Debut
18th March, 2002

“The Next Big Thing” takes on the Hardy Boyz
8th April, 2002

Brock Lesnar returns to WWE
2nd April, 2012

*DISC 2*

Coming Back

Brock Lesnar vs. Leviathan
Ohio Valley Wrestling 28th September, 2001

The Journey

OVW Southern Tag Team Championship Match
Rico Constantino & Prototype vs. The Minnesota Stretching Crew
Ohio Valley Wrestling 10th November, 2001

Superstar?

Jeff Hardy vs. Brock Lesnar
Backlash 21st April, 2002

Wrecking Machine

King of the Ring Finals
Rob Van Dam vs. Brock Lesnar
King of the Ring 23rd June, 2002

Who I Am

Rob Van Dam & ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Undertaker & Brock Lesnar
Raw 15th July, 2002

Hard Work

#1 Contender Match for the WWE Undisputed Championship
Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Brock Lesnar
SmackDown 8th August , 2002

Opportunities

WWE Undisputed Championship Match
The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar
SummerSlam 25th August, 2002

Carrying Myself

Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton
SmackDown 5th September, 2002

Focus

WWE Undisputed Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker
Unforgiven 22nd September, 2002

New Challenges

Hell in a Cell Match for the WWE Championship
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar
No Mercy 20th October, 2002

No Friends

Royal Rumble Match
Royal Rumble 19th January, 2003

Happiness

Brock Lesnar vs. Team Angle
SmackDown 27th February, 2003

*DISC 3*

No Pain

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle
WrestleMania XIX 30th March, 2003

Fight for It!

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena
Backlash 27th April, 2003

Being the Best

60-Minute Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
SmackDown 18th September, 2003

Fine-Tuned

Rey Mysterio vs. Brock Lesnar
SmackDown 11th December, 2003

Chaos

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show
SmackDown 12th June, 2003

Reckless Abandonment

Interpromotional Match
Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar
WrestleMania XX 14th March, 2004

Pride


*BLU-RAY EXTRAS*


Current Goals

Brock Lesnar vs. ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair
Raw 1st July, 2002

No Fear

No Disqualification Triple Threat Match for the WWE Undisputed Championship
The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
Global Warning 10th August, 2002

My World

Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle & Mr. America vs. Big Show, Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin
SmackDown 26th June, 2003

Strictly Business

Triple Threat Match for the WWE Championship
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. Big Show
Vengeance 27th July, 2003

Next Chapter

Extreme Rules Match

John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar
Extreme Rules 29th April, 2012


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/produ...Pain-Collector-s-Edition-Blu-ray-2-Discs.html

Definitely want the Brock set. ER isn't being released on Bluray is it? Hopefully Bryan/Sheamus will make the 2012 PPV Matches bluray set.

Edit: Yey it is. DO WANT.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I shall buy that Brock Lesnar set. I shall even change my sig/avy theme to fit my current love affair with him lol.

EDIT - I forgot to add. Trips knee striking the fuck out of Lesnar after accidently finding his weak spot is awesome sauce.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That looks fucking amazing.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I've had a change of heart on the Rock/Cena DVD. I'm rather excited about the documentary part at least. Might wait to pick it up when the price goes down lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> EDIT - I forgot to add. Trips knee striking the fuck out of Lesnar after accidently finding his weak spot is awesome sauce.


HE'S BEEN CUT! THE RUSSIAN'S BEEN CUT! (Rocky 4 reference)

HHH smelled blood.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Brock, I find his smile and the warm-up thing he does pretty goofy (specially when it was combined last night at the end of Heyman's promo, lol). I just hope he doesn't BORK my arm now.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

What's goofy about it? I think it's class.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE Championship PPV Matches : 1985-1992*

Hulk Hogan vs Roddy Piper TWC 85 : *** 1/4*
Hulk Hogan vs King King Bundy WM II : *** 1/4*
Hulk Hogan vs Andre The Giant WM III : *** 1/4*
Randy Savage vs Ted Dibiase WM IV : *****
Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage WM V : ***** 1/4*
Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior WM VI : ***** 1/4*
Warrior vs Rick Rude SS 90 : ** 1/2*
Warrior vs Sgt. Slaughter RR 91 : *** 1/4*
Hulk Hogan vs Sgt Slaughter WM VII : **** 1/4*
Hulk Hogan vs The Undertaker SS 91 : ** 3/4*
Hulk Hogan vs The Undertaker TTIT 91 : ****

The earlier WWE Championship PPV matches featured some very basic wrestling action, best represented by the Wrestling Classic encounter between Hulk Hogan and Roddy Piper. Here we had an under 10 minute long match that featured some good character development (especially by Piper with his heel tendencies) but very basic wrestling moves with a big atmosphere behind them. Hogan usually wrestled basic style matches, and it seemed like he had his own formula for them, especially against monsters like King Kong Bundy and Andre the Giant. The Bundy match is a legit decent match, while the Andre match is a pile of garbage that has the biggest boost when it comes to historical significance EVER.

Randy Savage and The Million Dollar Man managed to wrestle a good match at WM 4, however I feel it was burdened down by the fact that we saw these guys wrestle multiple times earlier in the night, and neither man really broke out anything special for the match, sans the ending of course (FUCK why did Hogan have to hog the spotlight?). I'm probably one of Hogan vs Savage's biggest fans, as I love the simple story being told in that match and I truly do believe it's an all time classic match. As a matter of fact, because of it's simple story and heel vs face intensity that I feel it has, I have it rated higher than Warrior-Hogan, which I feel gets too much love from time to time. Don't get me wrong ; It's a fucking awesome match, it's just I feel that it gets more praise for the drama in the match and being the first big time face vs face matchup, instead of getting praise for being a well paced big time fight.

The Warrior title defence at Summerslam 90 in the cage, is a very very underwhelming bout. Just an uninspired , incoherent mess that I didn't enjoy at all. Never saw the next year's fuckfest tag, but I'm willing to assume that it could potentially be the worst main event in Summerslam history. The Slaughter match is actually a clever booked match that is pretty decent for Sgt Slaughter 1991 standards, besides the long rest holds and a pretty bad pace behind it. Using Savage interference to get the title off the Warrior was a smart move IMO. That match of course set up one of the most underrated matches in Wrestlemania history : Hogan vs Slaughter. The dynamic of this match that makes it for me is this ; What we are witnessing in this match is SUPERHOGAN ... Only he's more motivated than ever and somewhat impervious to pain now. The whole breaking the Camel Clutch pt. 2 was awesome. 

The Hogan-Taker 91 series was very... Bleh. I found both to be slow, HOGAN PACED contests with lots of basic action and a few decent spots. The ending to the Survivor series match really pissed me off, while I actually kind of liked the ending to the Tuesday in Texas match because it basically told the story that Taker can't be dominated or decisively BEATEN, he needs to be CAUGHT to lose, and I feel that this carries on throughout different matches in his career (NWO 06 vs Angle to be specific). 

Don't worry... Things would get ALOT better in the coming years.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Me too. Anybody else doing it would make it look goofy but Brock makes it look awesome because he's awesome. His smirks are win too.

Trips going after the stomach was indeed him smelling blood. Too bad he didn't figure it out before he got his ass handed to him lol.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Me too. Anybody else doing it would make it look goofy but Brock makes it look awesome because he's awesome. His smirks are win too.












DO YOU SEE DAT?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I SEE DAT ARM BORK


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I loved HHH quote about Brock. 



> "That's the reality of who he is. He likes to go home, sit, drive a tractor and harvest crops. It just so happens he's a badass on the weekend."


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

CROP LESNAR


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Miz/Swagger vs Mysterio/Riley - Raw 6/27/11 - Tornado Tag

Why the FUCK don't we see tornado tags more often? This match owns and I'm gonna keep it as my TV MOTY for 2011. Mysterio is the still the top guy in the company when it comes to match quality, imo. He really never fails to disappoint. I'm not a big fan of Miz or Riley at all but they manage to impress. And I feel Swagger's work has declined since '09 but still a good performance on his behalf. Match is full of own! ***3/4

Best TV matches of the last 5 years...

2012 - Punk/Henry April 2nd
2011 - Swagger/Miz vs Mysterio/Riley June 27th (Cena/Mysterio honorable mention)
2010 - Edge/Jericho/Orton July? (Having trouble thinking of one at the moment) (Punk/Mysterio from earlier that year works too)
2009 - Punk/Hardy Steel Cage (September, I believe. Maybe late August)
2008 - HBK/Hardy or Hardy/Jericho


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I hope WWE signs him for another deal , seems like a win/win situation.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When was Morrison/Mysterio for the IC title on SD? Was that 2009 or 2010?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Mysterio need to have a PPV match. HHH/Mysterio too. It's a crime that we haven't seen the latter in a 1 on 1 match in all the time they've been there.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Cena/Mysterio need to have a PPV match. HHH/Mysterio too. It's a crime that we haven't seen the latter in a 1 on 1 match in all the time they've been there.


Would've killed to see Mysterio/Trips in '06. Especially after their interactions in that Rumble.



The Lady Killer said:


> When was Morrison/Mysterio for the IC title on SD? Was that 2009 or 2010?


That was '09. Absolutely love that match but it doesn't trump Punk/Hardy, imo. Still fucking OWNS though. Morrison was on fire in 09/10.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Don't remember Hardy/Punk Cage. Gonna look it up.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Don't remember Hardy/Punk Cage. Gonna look it up.


It was Jeff's last match in the company and I'd say it's just as good, if not better, than the TLC.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FUCKIN' BRYE said:


> It was Jeff's last match in the company and I'd say it's just as good, if not better, than the TLC.




There really hasn't been Mysterio/HHH?

I know we finally got Mysterio/HBK prior to HBK's retirement (don't remember anything about that match, either).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

We had Rey/HBK for Eddie's tribute show as well.  Both were pretty good matches but I always thought they could've stole the show.

And nah, no Trips/Rey matches, I don't believe.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't Mysterio and Jericho have a really good series of matches in '09? I seem to remember Jericho winning after he nabbed Mysterio's mask. No idea what the feud was about nor do I remember anything else about the matches (other than them being awesome).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Didn't Mysterio and Jericho have a really good series of matches in '09? I seem to remember Jericho winning after he nabbed Mysterio's mask. No idea what the feud was about nor do I remember anything else about the matches (other than them being awesome).


YES~!

The one from The Bash '09 is so epic. The Extreme Rules one is really good too. Don't remember much about the Judgment Day one but I'm pretty sure it's great as well.

The Bash '09 one was MASK VS TITLE! (IC title )


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

God I'm gonna need to make a list of all these matches to watch. I know I ordered most of them on PPV and I typically recorded them on VHS (I know, I'm old-fashioned) but I think I left all my VHS tapes at my parent's house. Hopefully they didn't throw them out.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> God I'm gonna need to make a list of all these matches to watch. I know I ordered most of them on PPV and I typically recorded them on VHS (I know, I'm old-fashioned) but I think I left all my VHS tapes at my parent's house. Hopefully they didn't throw them out.


I still have the VHS recordings of WM X-7 and RR '01. Refused to buy the DVDs since they're way too expensive so I have to pop those in. :lmao

My god has quality improved since then.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LMAO @ Jericho as a plant w/a mask on so Mysterio will touch heads with him enabling Jericho to smash his head into the guardrail. Classic.

Yeah, my VHS tapes date all the way back to like Saturday Night's Main Event with Warrior vs. DiBiase. Not sure how that tape still works.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still have nearly all my VHS tapes from Survivor Series 88 - Wrestlemania 14, plus a few comps like US Rampage etc, really need to start replacing them for DVD's sooner or later lol!!

Mainly stuff from 88-97 i need to replace so ill probably start to get Vol 1+2 of the four anthology sets at some point..


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

God the Mysterio Jericho feud from a couple years back was absolutely awesome. The matches were really incredible, however I felt like they did a fair amount of redundant things match to match. That shouldn't hurt the quality too much, given the flow and the work rate. Great chemistry- Rey works really well with those old WCW guys. 

The Bash, if I recall correctly, was what I felt like the best match. Extreme Rules was good, I believe that's the one where Mysterio is wearing two masks... great fucking shit. Didn't they have a TV match too? Raw?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched The Bash. That's the one where Rey is wearing 2 masks. Fucking amazing match. My God. Nonstop action/reversals/nearfalls. It was like Angle/Mysterio from 2002 but 10 minutes longer. 

Extreme Rules, I believe, was the one when Jericho nabbed Mysterio's mask and got the roll-up. Mysterio learned from this by wearing a second mask at The Bash.

Not sure about their other matches in the series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> I still have the VHS recordings of WM X-7 and RR '01. Refused to buy the DVDs since they're way too expensive so I have to pop those in. :lmao
> 
> My god has quality improved since then.


I've got the majority of PPV's from 00 to 04 (some 05 too) still on VHS lol. Got most of them on DVD now too though (copied and original) .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho/Mysterio feud was pretty great (though I do find their matches to be a tad overrated). Was one of the main things that helped kicked start the INCREDIBLE Summer of 2009 for Smackdown. Punk's slow heel turn and matches with Hardy, Morrison finally showing he can be good with a ton of great TV matches, Mysterio and Jericho having a very old school feud and series of matches, and some other shit I'm forgetting lol. Shame Raw was at one of its lowest points EVER in 09. Went to the Raw, ECW & SD tapings that November and Raw was shit (not even being there live made it very good) while the ECW & SD taping the next night was sooo much fun (REGAL VS CHRISTIAN, UNDERTAKER VS JERICHO FIRST TIME EVER).


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

I just got some WWE sets in the mail and a had a couple a needed to watch so I want your suggestions on which ones to watch first.

The Life and Times of Mr. Perfect (2-Disk)
The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection (3-Disk) Already watched the first disk several months ago
Nature Boy Ric Flair The Definitive Collection (3-Disk)
Mick Foley: Greatest Hits and Misses Hardcore Edition (3-Disk)
The Rock: The Most Electrifying Man In Sports Entertainment (3-Disk)
The History of the Intercontinental Championship (3-Disk)
Bret the Hitman Hart: The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best There Ever Will Be (3-Disk)

Suggestions?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Either Flair set or Foley's set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't go wrong with Flair, Foley or Bret. 4 incredible sets.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Quick thoughts RE: Best TV matches of the last few years.

Agreed with Brye on Punk/Henry I for 2012, nothing has come close tbh in rivalling it this year. Wonderful babyface vs monster matchup, Henry kills it character wise and adds some wonderful little touches to his work, Punk bumps huge and builds to all of his signature offence wonderfully, especially the running knee strikes and the eventual kick which Henry does this awesome delayed 'will he won't he' bump off of. Crowd is red hot with the YES/NO chants actually adding to the strike exchanges, Punk's offence gets progressively better throughout and they do a sensational job at making what could ordinarily have been a BS finish feel organic via Henry's selling and protecting both men with neither man able to afford a loss.

Cena/Mysterio or Masters/Mcintyre would be TVMOTY for 2011. Cena/Mysterio was just a delightful babyface/babyface match with some great signature counters, and Cena selling the leg work superbly including the failed AA attempt. Perfect sub 15 minute match between two of the company's best and all the proof we ever needed that these two need to have a PPV match asap. Masters/Mcintyre was just a beautifully simple wrestling match built on superbly detailed leg selling from Masters and a creative and violent workover from Mcintyre. Throw in some excellent facial expressions and character work from Drew in reacting to different points in the match and them working an excellent callback spot to their 2 minute match in February on Smackdown and you have an incredible TV match with no faults to pick at.

Punk/Mysterio 02/12 Smackdown or Christian/Mcintyre 07/16 would be my 2010 TVMOTY. Punk/Mysterio has arguably the best transition spot and workover in the entire Punk/Mysterio series of matches and they work the Rey vs The World formula superbly with a hot finishing run which builds throughout Punk's workover and Rey's hope spots. Christian/Mcintyre is just a 2010 version of Masters/Mcintyre with Drew pulling out the transition spot of the year in suckering Christian under the ring and driving his shoulder into the ring apron. Mcintyre's arm work is creative and relentless and is the base of his offence for the entire match, Christian bumps, sells and works the injury into his repoitore of offence like only he can and sells the arm superbly after a tornado DDT from the turnbuckle.

2009 TVMOTY has to be Christian/Swagger for the ECW belt from 02/24 for me. Like a lot of Christian's matches in his reign, its built on superb selling on his behalf as well as he and Swagger working a brilliant veteran/rookie match with Christian relying on his intelligence and experience to manipulate the more dominant but inexperienced Swagger. Whole limbwork playing into the finish just puts the icing on the cake, with the earlier work feeling like it was important and tied in with the story of the match, rather than being aimlessly thrown it to plod the middle section of the match. Hardy/Punk Loser Leaves Town is a damn good choice for #2 though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Gonna need to check out some of these TV matches. I sense a trend in them (Mysterio).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I honestly couldn't see you disliking them, though I suppose Masters/Mcintyre might just depend on how far limb selling and a consistent and creative workover impresses you. Like I know a lot of people like them and would call the match 'good', but for some there's just not enough entertaining moments in the match for it to be a TV MOTY. I love how they make Masters' comeback feel desperate and the difference between him winning and losing, and the way he adapts his signature offence to reflect his injury (hitting a one legged samoan drop for example) is just the sort of smart and savvy wrestling I've come to love, especially when the likes of Christian, Mysterio, Masters and Mcintyre were wrestling such simple and basic matches structure and offence wise, but managing to make them so engaging and without any fault that they easily surpass some of the more glamorous and quicker paced matches in my opinion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I am a fan of selling/limbwork (someone recommended Regal/Ambrose from FCW a little while ago and I loved it) so I'm sure I'll enjoy these. The one-legged Samoan Drop is definitely something I'd pick up on and appreciate. I remember marking when Batista's arm had been worked over all match long and when he went to do his Ultimate Warrior-esque shaking of the ropes to signal for the Batista Bomb he did it with his good arm only.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Good stuff, like I said I doubt anyone would watch Masters/Mcintyre, Christian/Swagger and Christian/Mcintyre and come out thinking any match was below 'good', but Masters/Mcintyre especially for me would be the least likely to depend on just how much the selling and workover mattered. Mcintyre is really awesome as well at selling frustration, cockyness and fear throughout the match to reflect him being outclassed and then controlling the match, he also does this beautiful nip up after a drop kick and has THE PERFECT cocky smirk to taunt the audience.

BTW in amongst the Punk/Mysterio feud from 2010, there's an excellent Mysterio/Gallows match from Superstars in March before Wrestlemania 26. Gallows was formerly Festus in case you're unaware, and he's a really terrific big man worker who's got some brilliant punches and offence but is also incredibly agile in bumping and working a more frantic pace with someone like Mysterio. And when you take into account how good Mysterio is at working with lethargic big men you can imagine what he'll do with a more athetically capable big man like Gallows. Pretty sure Andy watched it last year after having it recommended to him by sterling for ages and came out very impressed, I'd go through his blog to try and find if he talked about it there but that would take a while and I'm meant to be watching a few matches tonight before bed for a Best Matches Of The Decade poll I'm doing.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Buying the Superstars 2010 set for like $20 off ioffer was a great purchase, imo. A bunch of fun hidden matches that you generally don't see.

I remember really liking Gallows/Mysterio.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Agreed, Superstars from 09 to mid 2011 was really the new ECW in terms of weekly consistent good wrestling which barely anyone saw. There's an awesome 13 minute Goldust/Regal match from August as well, takes place on the same night as Masters/Mcintyre from 2010 (which is very good but below their May 2011 match) and they just beat the shit out of each other and really work an awesome veteran matchup with both men relying on their experience and knowledge of the other in order to gain the advantage. Goldust also takes a bonkers bump off a missed crossbody through the ropes to the floor and generally puts in another excellent babyface performance (he was so underrated in that time, worked very well with Dibiase and Sheamus) and well, Regal is Regal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ah Christian/Swagger, what a wonderful match you are . 2nd best MOTY for 09 imo. Gets better on every watch too.

There is at least on McIntyre/Hardy match from... 2010(?) worth watching while we're dropping some TV MOTYC picks. Last Matt Hardy matches worth watching (which is a shame because he's a fucking great worker). Some other great 2010 matches:

Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 26/01/2010 - ****1/4
The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 10/09/2010 - ****
Christian Vs William Regal - ECW 19/01/2010 - ***1/2
Drew McIntyre & Chris Jericho Vs John Morrison & R-Truth - WWE Smackdown 22/01/2010 - ***1/2
Christian Vs William Regal - WWE Superstars 14/01/2010 - ***1/2
Christian Vs Drew McIntyre - WWE Smackdown 20/08/2010 - ***1/2

Got a text document with quite a few 2010 match ratings. In fact, might as well just post all the ***+ ones lol:



Spoiler: stars



The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XVI 28/03/2010 - *****
Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 26/01/2010 - ****1/4
The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 10/09/2010 - ****
The Miz Vs Randy Orton Vs Edge Vs Mark Henry Vs Chris Jericho Vs John Morrison Vs Ted DiBiase Vs Evan Bourne - Money in the Bank 18/07/2010 - ****
Kane Vs The Big Show Vs Matt Hardy Vs Christian Vs Kofi Kingston Vs Cody Rhodes Vs Drew McIntyre Vs Dolph Ziggler - Money in the Bank 18/07/2010 - ****
Tyler Black Vs Davey Richards - ROH Death Before Dishonor VIII 19/06/2010 - ****
Christian Vs William Regal - ECW 19/01/2010 - ***1/2
Drew McIntyre & Chris Jericho Vs John Morrison & R-Truth - WWE Smackdown 22/01/2010 - ***1/2
Christian Vs William Regal - WWE Superstars 14/01/2010 - ***1/2
Christian Vs Drew McIntyre - WWE Smackdown 20/08/2010 - ***1/2
Batista Vs John Cena - WrestleMania XVI 28/03/2010 - ***1/2
Christian Vs Drew McIntyre - WWE Smackdown 30/07/2010 - ***1/2
Chris Jericho Vs Edge - WrestleMania XVI 28/03/2010 - ***1/2
Kofi Kingston Vs MVP Vs Evan Bourne Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Christian Vs Jack Swagger Vs Kane Vs Drew McIntyre Vs Dolph Ziggler Vs Matt Hardy - WrestleMania XVI 28/03/2010 - ***1/2
Christian Vs Ezekiel Jackson - Royal Rumble 31/01/2010 - ***1/4
Rey Mysterio Vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 12/02/2010 - ***1/4
Goldust Vs Ted DiBiase - WWE Superstars 02/09/2010 - ***1/4
Kane Vs Dolph Ziggler - WWE Smackdown 15/01/2010 - ***1/4
Dolph Ziggler Vs Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 13/05/2010 - ***1/4
Kurt Angle Vs Mr Anderson - Lockdown 18/04/2010 - ***1/4
Christian Vs Drew McIntyre - WWE Smackdown 16/07/2010 - ***
The Undertaker Vs Rey Mysterio - Royal Rumble 31/01/2010 - ***
Triple H Vs Sheamus - WrestleMania XVI 28/03/2010 - ***
Royal Rumble Match 31/01/2010 - ***
Rey Mysterio Vs Shawn Michaels - WWE Smackdown 29/01/2010 - ***
Chavo Guerrero Vs Primo Vs Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 28/01/2010 - ***
Drew McIntyre Vs Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 26/08/2010 - ***
Triple H Vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 29/01/2010 - ***
Drew McIntyre Vs John Morrison - WWE Smackdown 29/01/2010 - ***


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That Hardy/Mcintyre match is from 26th June I'm sure, pretty much the match that made me sit up and think, holy hell Mcintyre is awesome. He doesn't work as methodically here, its more of a brawl but given this is the feud ender I had no problem with that. Hardy throws some awesome punches and Mcintyre has a couple of really neat 'violent' spots, he also takes the bump of the year when Hardy kicks his leg from under him and he lands spine first on the edge of the steel steps with no way to protect his fall. The fact it plays off of a past spot in their feud where Mcintyre stomped on Hardy's head whilst he was resting on the steps only added to the brilliance behind it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE Championship PPV Matches : 1992-1994*

1992 Royal Rumble Match : ***** 3/4*
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage WM VIII : ***** 1/4*
Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior SS 92 : ***** 1/4*
Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels SS 92 : **** 3/4* 
Bret Hart vs Razor Ramon RR 93 : **** 1/2*
Bret Hart vs Yokozuna WM IX : *** 1/2*
Yokozuna vs Hulk Hogan WM IX : *N/A*
Hulk Hogan vs Yokozuna KOTR 93 : ** 1/2*
Yokozuna vs Lex Luger SS 93 : *** 3/4*

The 92 Rumble is the GOAT, hands down. Features the most talent ever assembled in one ring, a mixture of consistent storytelling and compelling drama, and let's not forget what IMO makes this match so amazing ; The GOAT commentary performance by Bobby Heenan. This commentary performance was so amazing that this match was actually included on Heenan's DVD, that in itself is fantastic. The delivery of all of his pro-Flair lines and how he switches allegiances so many times only to have him EXPLODE at the end when Flair finally wins it. Flair stays consistent as a character throughout, and with Heenan he makes this match a VERY, VERY close to ***** match.

Flair-Savage is storytelling in the ring personified. Here we have two formula workers in Ric and Randy, and you let them go at it on a stage such as Wrestlemania ? This REALLY should have been the main event (again, I love you Hogan, but fuck you ) but instead it takes a backseat to Hogan and SID (We'll get into how awesome SID became later)? Anyways, I love the whole "Randy's going to kill Flair" dynamic, but he can't or Flair will keep the title, kind of like Punk-Jericho from this years Mania, except Punk was champion so it was a little more effective there. The fact that Macho cheats against the dirtiest player in the game to win, and the leg work/subsequent psychology makes this in all time classic in my book.

Macho-Warrior II might be the least talked about classic championship match in WWE history. IMO Warrior's best title match, him and Savage just go back and forth exchanging big move after big move for nearly 30 minutes (by the way, this might be the most colorful match of all time if you look at what these two wear to the ring) , with Flair and Perfect coming to ringside and trying to start shit, only to become torn to bits by the end of the night. The near falls and counters were there, and I thought the ending was necessary given that neither man really deserved to lose here. Another 1992 classic WWF championship match.

Bret-Shawn from SS 92 for me, embodies everything good about their matches together, with a few smidges of the bad. For instance, I thought the latter half of this match was amazingly well paced wrestling with great holds and moves with substance. However, the first half of this match features badly paced action with too many raw holds that don't amount to anything. Seriously, the first half of this match means NOTHING, as we get Bret working the right arm of Shawn for a while, and it just goes NOWHERE. That really pisses me off with these two, as they just love to abandon psychology. Much better than the Ironman simply because the shit doesn't last as long, but when it's good, it's REALLY good. Their second best match together (behind SS 97  ) .

Bret-Razor was a very great but very formulaic match, in which Bret plugs Razor into his big man formula ; work on the legs with various holds, sell accordingly, and we'll have a great match. Bret makes Razor look pretty great here, and goes out of the ordinary in this one (complete with a beautiful suicide dive by Bret to the outside where he almost jumps straight into the railing at ringside) to get the fans off their feet. Bret wastes NO time trying to keep the big man down, a staple in his later matches against the likes of Diesel and Sid. Razor sells very well to his credit as well, and it's just another reason why Bret's matches were so awesome in this timeframe.

Now we have to get into the Yoko matches... WM IX actually was pretty decent, as Bret once again plugged Yoko into his big man formula. Obviously Yoko can't do what the likes of a Scott Hall or Kevin Nash could do, but he did his job in the sense of letting Bret do all the work and carry him to a decent Wrestlemania main event (albeit very short). The Hogan matches : The Wrestlemania match was fucking bullshit, and one of the WORST booking decisions that I have ever seen, while the KOTR match was every bit as terrible booking wise, but it sucked in the ring as well. It was a basic 80s Hogan vs monster match... in 1993. Summerslam 1993 vs Luger is probably Yoko's best singles match IMO, as Luger seems to drag the best out of monsters during this time frame. Luger kept it at his pace and Yoko actually hangs pretty good for.. You know... The fat motherfucker that he was. The ending makes NO SENSE whatsoever and is one of the biggest headscratchers ever, but hey, atleast it had ATMOSPHERE, and we got DAT CONFETTI!


----------



## wwffans123 (Feb 13, 2009)

When i will get Rock vs Cena DVD on internet lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Thought HHH/Lesnar was awesome. Heard people say it was slow and plodding and boring. Didn't think that at all, the match flew by for me. Also don't understand the comparisons to the Cena match. They couldn't possibly have worked the same kind of match. This worked just fine. HHH has always been built up as more of a badass than Cena who plays the underdog babyface role so often against bigger guys. Made sense for HHH to have the amount of offense he had. It didn't have the realness of the Cena match but come on what match in the history of the company does? Felt more like a legit fight to me than 90% of the WWE stuff I've ever seen. Only Cena/Lesnar and shit involving dudes like Finlay and Benoit feel more real. The psychology was perfect. HHH tried to hang in there with Brock, got overwhelmed, accidentally found Lesnar's weakness and a chance to win, but Brock still had too much for him. I actually think this goes perfectly with the Cena match. The beating that Lesnar put on him at Extreme Rules was so brutal that simple stuff like Hunter's early clotheslines seemed like a big deal (plus Brock flew over those ropes like a madman). The Cena match is better, that's for sure, but I enjoyed the hell out of this nonetheless. If I had to throw a rating at it I'd say 4 stars.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Glad to read you enjoyed it Ownage. You explained the psychology and story of the match well and the way Lesnar and Trips executed it I enjoyed the intense pace they set. However, I can see why some people would not like a pace that deliberate and some are just not into Trips' face in peril segments.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

omfg Ownage(TM)

Spot on with everything you said. Early on in the Cena match (if we're really forced to compare), Cena's random wild punches weren't going to phase Brock, who took him down with ease. Brock opened the same way against HHH by charging him into the corner. HHH had to respond by surprising Brock and taking him off his game (clotheslines sending Brock FLYING over the top rope "like a madman"). The psychology (and Brock's selling) was perfect, and the bit you added about them being two separate matches is dead right. HHH's character is completely different from Cena's. Cena (despite always winning) is constantly built up as an underdog babyface (especially when facing larger, more threatening opponents), whereas HHH has been a badass ever since he acquired "The Game" persona. Heel or face, HHH's character has generally stayed the same. That being said, of course the matches weren't going to be the same. We're likely never going to witness a match like Lesnar/Cena again, but Lesnar/HHH was damn good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm going to watch Lesnar/Trips again tomorrow to see if it goes up or down at all.

Gonna watch a couple matches from MITB over again too. SD MITB and Punk/Bryan.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I loved Bryan/Punk from MITB. Probably right around ****+. 

Wasn't quite as good as their OTL bout, obviously.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Man, I love that OTL match. I was expecting it to be good and all, but they really tore down the house with that performance. Crowd was so into it, too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior SS 92 : ***** 1/4*
> 
> 
> Macho-Warrior II might be the least talked about classic championship match in WWE history. IMO Warrior's best title match, him and Savage just go back and forth exchanging big move after big move for nearly 30 minutes (by the way, this might be the most colorful match of all time if you look at what these two wear to the ring) , with Flair and Perfect coming to ringside and trying to start shit, only to become torn to bits by the end of the night. The near falls and counters were there, and I thought the ending was necessary given that neither man really deserved to lose here. Another 1992 classic WWF championship match.


I will agree that it is one of the biggest sleeper hits in SummerSlam and early 90s WWF history. I thought it was a fantastic match with the two larger-than-life characters of Macho Man and The Warrior battling once again for the top prize in the industry. It obviously is not as dramatic as their classic at WrestleMania VII with the stakes higher than ever before with their careers on the line but you could feel the enormity of this main event championship match. Savage's selling of his injury was stellar as was he's guidance of Warrior to another one of the best matches of his career. Along with Rick Rude or the "Ultimate Challenge" with Hogan, Savage probably brought out the best in Warrior in the ring. Everyone should watch this great match and give some of the SummerSlam 92 glory to it because Savage and Warrior deserve it for their efforts here.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

So I've decided to go back through each PPV from this year and watch anything that interests me from each event. Currently my top 10 PPV matches are:

1.Cena/Lesnar ER
2.HHH/Taker WM
3.Punk/Bryan OTL
4.Punk/Jericho WM
5.Bryan/Sheamus ER
6.HHH/Lesnar SS
7.Punk/Jericho ER
8.Rock/Cena WM
9.Punk/Bryan MitB
10.Sheamus/Jericho/Del Rio/Orton OTL

I haven't watched the majority of the matches since the events happened so I expect this to change a fair bit what with me watching a lot of them with mates/drinking etc. The top 3 I have at 5 stars a piece currently but I'm not so sure how they'll hold up on a completely sober rewatch without company to cause any distractions.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

My top 10 matches

1. Cena V Johnny Ace OTL ***** 
2. HHH V Taker HIAC ****1/2
3. CM Punk V DB OTL ****1/2
4. CM Punk V Jericho ER ****1/4
5. Sheamus V Daniel Bryan ER ****1/4
6. Lensar V Cena ****1/4 ER (GODDAMN EXTREME RULES WAS FUCKING GOOD)
7. CM Punk V Jericho WM ****
8. CM Punk V Daniel Bryan MITB ****
9. Sheamus V Orton V Jericho V Del Rio OTL ***3/4
10 Rock V Cena ***3/4


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

jblvdx said:


> My top 10 matches
> *
> 1. Cena V Johnny Ace OTL ***** *
> 2. HHH V Taker HIAC ****1/2
> ...


:lol Apart from the bolded I can't disagree with any of that.


----------



## A-DoubleBaby! (Feb 9, 2010)

I wasn't planning on getting started so quickly but I had to stay in for a few hours so I figured I'd watch the four matches from the Rumble that interested me.

First up we have:

*Bryan/Show/Henry Steel cage match* - I did enjoy this quite a lot. I thought Bryan played the desperate underdog(with a hint of heel) very well and basically tried escaping whenever he could to try and get out of there complete with World heavyweight championship. He takes a beating and picks his spots well so no complaints there. Henry and Show are there first and foremost to inflict pain which I thought was encapsulated rather humorously with Henry shouting "CLOSE THE DOOR" at the ref after Bryan tries escaping through it.
On a side note, I absolutely despise the fact that the door is allowed to be used as a means of escape in cage matches. I realise a large part of being a wrasslin fan is suspending ones belief but when it pertains to this particular issue I find it extremely difficult.
Anyways, as I said I enjoyed this and I thought each man played their part well in a pretty damn solid match. Weirdly however, I could've sworn I enjoyed the match a lot more at the time and actually remember it being quite different. The strange thing is I wasn't even drinking when I watched it.

*Kane/Cena* - I wasn't expecting a great deal from this and was actually contemplating skipping it but I vaguely remembered being pleasantly surprised with it the first time around. They start out just throwing punches at eachother which makes sense. Kane then takes a bump over the steel steps which actually surprised me a little bit. The momentum doesn't last long though when Cena fails with an AA attempt to lead into Kane then controlling the match. It then becomes your "standard Cena match" with Kane beating down Cena and John selling it well with the occasional comeback attempt/cutoff etc etc. The match ends in a double count out leading into a further brawl with Kane beating down Cena with a chair. Then we get all of the Kane/Cena/Ryder/Eve stuff to further the storyline blah blah don't really care. Overall I enjoyed the match and can't really think of anything overly negative to say about it. Nothing special enough to go out of your way to see but also not bad enough to completely avoid.

*CM Punk/Dolph Ziggler* - I went into this match expecting quite a lot and although I thoroughly enjoyed the match, it didn't reach the "great" level I thought it had the potential to. Still very good though. Started off well with both men jostling for position with some nice counters. Punk locks an abdominal stretch on Ziggler while simultaneously hitting him with a barrage of elbows and proceeding to yell "Best in the World". Ziggler repays the favour afterwards onces he gains the advantage (with a pretty sweet move pulling Punk off the top and making him land on the turnbuckle on the back of his head) by planting about 10 elbows to a grounded Punk. So yeh I thought that was a nice touch. After that Ziggler works the neck for a bit until Punk comes back and they both trade some sweet moves/counters etc. I enjoyed everything up until the point in the match where it became very blatantly about Punk and Big Johnny rather than Punk and Ziggler. Punk has Ziggler beaten on three consecutive occasions which I thought was complete overkill. I get it, you want to further the Punk/Laurinaitis storyline but honestly once really is enough. Anyway, Ziggler performs a really cool counter to the GTS for a 2 count....then Punk wins. As I said it is a very good match with good pacing/moves/counters/bumps etc but the ending did detract a bit for me. Felt it was completely unnecessary for Punk to have Ziggler beat three times and then actually beat him.

No time to watch the Rumble right now so I'll either watch it later or tomorrow. Don't have my hopes super high though because I don't remember too much I enjoyed. However, we shall see I suppose.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone else find themselves enjoying the Orton/Kane matches from this year more than they expected?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I've enjoyed all of their matches more than I ever expected. From the No DQ match they had last year on Smackdown to WrestleMania and Extreme Rules this year. Their chemistry is so different, it's kind of weird to describe but I like it. Same with Edge and Kane.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yes. The Mania match was enjoyable simply because I wasn't expecting Orton to lose cleanly (and I'm guessing that's why they went with that finish). 

The ER match was a fun brawl, reminiscent of the oldschool Hardcore title matches that took place throughout the entire arena. LOL @ the Ryder cameo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton/Kane from Mania was much better than it had any right to be lol. Maybe my enjoyment came from the fact that I was still laughing my ass off at Bryan jobbing in 18 seconds though. Yeah, that might be it lol.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Brye said:


> Anyone else find themselves enjoying the Orton/Kane matches from this year more than they expected?


They certainly had some good matches. People think Kane is a bad wrestler but he's a had a very good year imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Liked their WM match (was a better MATCH than Rock/Cena). Not a fan of their ER match (saw most of it at a live show a couple of weeks before lol). SD match was alright from what I remembered.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yes. The Mania match was enjoyable simply because I wasn't expecting Orton to lose cleanly (and I'm guessing that's why they went with that finish).
> 
> The ER match was a fun brawl, reminiscent of the oldschool Hardcore title matches that took place throughout the entire arena. LOL @ the Ryder cameo.


I remember reading an article from WM weekend where Orton and Kane both said they had no idea why they were feuding. :lmao

Agreed, I liked the backstage portion of the ER match quite a bit. They've had Kane pretty much murder Ryder and I don't think he's ever gotten revenge. :lmao

I was actually really shocked when Kane won the WM one but I thought the finish was pretty cool.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> I remember reading an article from WM weekend where Orton and Kane both said they had no idea why they were feuding. :lmao


HANDSHAKE~!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I remember reading that too. 

It was pretty hilarious on Monday when they referenced the beating Ryder has taken from Kane and Ryder was super cautious approaching the ring to be his teammate.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I really enjoyed the Mania match, the ER rules match was a lot of fun too. Kane is great because he knows what he is good at and knows what he can't do so always plays to his strengths. 

I'd place Undertaker/HHH from Mania as my MOTY so far, with Bryan/Punk from OTL as a close second. A really good number of great matches so far this year.

Thinking about rewatching the Shawn Michaels/Chris Jericho feud from 2008 later today because I remember it being amazing


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> Anyone else find themselves enjoying the Orton/Kane matches from this year more than they expected?


Liked all three of their matches. (WM, SD after WM and ER) Orton seems to have good chemistry with nearly anyone. Not often he has a bad match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jericho/HBK was one of the better feuds in recent memory. The promos were just as amazing as the matches, which is pretty impressive. The unsanctioned match and the ladder match are the 2 I remember most, but I seem to recall them having a match earlier in the year that got interrupted by the Stretcher Match at ER. I think that first match was a wrestling clinic, and the other two were more brutal/personal. Was there a 4th?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WWE could have done a better job fleshing out Kane's intentions for attacking Orton. Kane saw the HANDSHAKE as a sign of humanity when he was suppose to be the monster and it was wrong to just accept defeat. Kane wanted to erase that moment with the destruction of the man he showed a sign of weakness to. Kane thought Undertaker's handshake to Michaels at WM26 was a sign of weakness and he thought he lost his edge because of that moment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JD match which was more pure wrestling. GAB match which was a bloody (as in blood, not "bloody" as an English word meaning... I don't actually bloody know) storyline advancer. Unsanctioned match from wherever, and No Mercy ladder match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The blade job in that GAB match is fucking insane.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingCal said:


> JD match which was more pure wrestling. GAB match which was a bloody (as in blood, not "bloody" as an English word meaning... I don't actually bloody know) storyline advancer. Unsanctioned match from wherever, and No Mercy ladder match.


Ah yes, the GAB match is the one I'm forgetting. That was the attack on HBK's eye, correct? That was fairly necessary for storyline advancement. God that feud was awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Marked when Jericho came out later that night, interrupted a match, and told the audience he ended HBK's career.

Man, that feud was fucking awesome.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Michaels and Jericho also had a Last Man Standing match on Raw some time after No Mercy but it wasn't as good as their other matches. Still a decent TV match but I consider No Mercy Ladder Match to be the true culmination of the feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

While I'd easily call it the Feud of the year (what the fuck else was going on in 08 lol?), I do think its overrated. I was never THAT into it, and actually got bored with it too. Started well, then I got bored, then SS happened and Jericho DECKED Shawn's wife, then I got into it again, then it got dull towards the end. Didn't like their Unsanctioned match, thought the ladder was good but not great, don't really remember the GAB match. Loved the JD match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't Jericho get owned in the Unsanctioned match only to come out and win the Championship Scramble? :lmao


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Michaels/Jericho (Unsanctioned match) is terrible. On the other hand, their Ladder match is GOAT.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The unsanctioned match was awesome. HBK's sniveling facial expressions when he was beating the shit out of Jericho with the belt were gold.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

wwedvdnews said:


> We now have more details on the upcoming Raw 100 Moments DVD/BR set.
> 
> The 3-Disc DVD and 2-Disc Blu-ray will feature a countdown of the top 100 moments in WWE Raw history. And that’s not all; the set will include the complete 3 hour 1000th episode with exclusive never-before-seen backstage footage of Superstars and Legends who appeared on the show.
> 
> _Since its debut on Jan 11, 1993, Monday Night Raw has delivered thrills, suspense, action, controversy and excitement for WWE fans to enjoy every week. On the heels of celebrating the monumental 1000th episode, WWE counts down the top 100 moments in Raw history. From the early years, through to the Attitude Era, and to today, relive all the top moments that have kept fans glued to the TV for nearly 20 years. From the destructive DX, to Stone Cold’s hell-raising antics, epic title celebrations, shocking twists and poignant memories of all your favourite Superstars are collected here. Plus own the complete 3 hour Raw 1000th episode that celebrated history and launched a new era in WWE, with exclusive never-before-seen backstage footage of Superstars and Legends who appeared in the show._


I'm sure a lot of the big segments from the 15th Anniversary set will be featured here again minus the "WWF" edits this time around since that deal with World Wildlife Fund was settled. Hopefully they can leave out the pop up info boxes too. I didn't think those were ever needed. I'm looking forward to seeing the countdown and if they will feature matches as well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Awesome. (Y)

Hope nothing is repeated from the 15th anniversary one.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> The unsanctioned match was awesome. HBK's sniveling facial expressions when he was beating the shit out of Jericho with the belt were gold.


Agreed. Might even prefer it to the ladder match from what I remember.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Thoughts on Unforgiven 2006? I have to watch it this week for Review a Wai


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

psx71 said:


> Thoughts on Unforgiven 2006? I have to watch it this week for Review a Wai


Orton/Carlito and the HIAC matches are both great and the TLC match is ****3/4 and one of the best matches ever for both Cena and Edge.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

You work on that podcast? I listen to them. I think Unforgiven 2006 is one of the best Raw brand PPVs they produced. Hardy/Morrison was a solid opener. I liked Morrison's use of submissions to control the match. Kane/Umaga could have been a better brawl I thought, nothing terrible though. HIAC was fun and violent. Dug the hardcore action and some of the comedy bits. Orton/Carlito was better than I expected. Springboard to RKO finish was very cool. Trish/Lita was a fitting farewell match especially with The Sharpshooter finish. TLC match was a great main event. Atmosphere was incredible, you can tell how much that moment meant for Edge defending the WWE Title at home. So yeah, very good show.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Clique said:


> You work on that podcast? I listen to them. I think Unforgiven 2006 is one of the best Raw brand PPVs they produced. Hardy/Morrison was a solid opener. I liked Morrison's use of submissions to control the match. Kane/Umaga could have been a better brawl I thought, nothing terrible though. HIAC was fun and violent. Dug the hardcore action and some of the comedy bits. Orton/Carlito was better than I expected. Springboard to RKO finish was very cool. Trish/Lita was a fitting farewell match especially with The Sharpshooter finish. TLC match was a great main event. Atmosphere was incredible, you can tell how much that moment meant for Edge defending the WWE Title at home. So yeah, very good show.


Oh god I wish. Naaah. I don't, but I usually watch whatever they review every week if I have the free time. I've only watched the Cena/Edge match before, so I figured it'd do me well if I watch the entire PPV start to finish. Excited to watch Trish's last match, and heard good things about the Hell In A Cell as well.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Unforgiven 2006 is my second favourite Raw exclusive PPV, coming second to Vengeance 2005


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I miss PPVs like that when the gimmick matches actually meant something as feud enders rather than forced as part of a cyclical annual event.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love Cena/Edge TLC and I'm a fan of Orton/Carlito. The HIAC is actually great until the end. Nitro/Hardy is pretty solid too. And I enjoy Kane/Umaga but that might be the Umaga mark in me.

And just letting you guys know, I write the Superstars detailed recaps on gerweck.net now.  Applied for the spot at PWMania today as well.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Baldwin. said:


> Unforgiven 2006 is my second favourite Raw exclusive PPV, coming second to Vengeance 2005


Vengeance was a great show, wasn't it? Every match surprised me, in a good way, and I love the cell match a lot.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The triple threat WWE Championship match is pretty underrated. And Batista/Hunter is a classic. Plus Las Vegas always has a great crowd to offer.

Overall, what's everyone's favorite PPV for 2005 (if it's WM21, say your second fave)? I've only seen WM21 in it's entirety, but from the little stuff I've watched from other PPVs, 2005 seems like a great year save for Eddie's death at the end.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

No matter what brand's PPV it was, but Vengeance was ALWAYS one of the better PPVs of the year.

Vengeance 2003 was epic, with Eddie/Benoit, WGTT/MysterioKidman, Cena/Undertaker and Angle/Lesnar/Show
Vengeance 2004 was decent; Edge/Orton is must watch and a generally forgotten gem, with Benoit/HHH putting on a good show also
Vengeance 2005 is one of the best PPVs of all time 
Vengeance 2006 is the kinda weak one. The best match was Orton/Angle, IMO, but theres a few other decent, watchable matches

And from then on it became Vengeance; Night Of Champions until 2011, and Vengeance 2011 was pretty damn decent tbh.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

One of my favourite matches from the Smackdown PPV's from 2005 was The Undertaker vs. Muhammad Hassan at the Great American Bash, I have no idea why because the match really wasn't all that, just seem to enjoy it loads every time I put it on. 

Survivor Series 2005 is a good one, the Smackdown vs. Raw match felt like a huge deal and I loved how Bobby Lashley got eliminated from that match. :lmao 2005 wasn't a bad year tbh, there were a tonne of good feuds and some pretty good PPV's.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The triple threat WWE Championship match is pretty underrated. And Batista/Hunter is a classic. Plus Las Vegas always has a great crowd to offer.
> 
> Overall, what's everyone's favorite PPV for 2005 (if it's WM21, say your second fave)? I've only seen WM21 in it's entirety, but from the little stuff I've watched from other PPVs, 2005 seems like a great year save for Eddie's death at the end.


I love Vengeance but I'm a big fan of the Rumble from that year and Survivor Series as well.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

2005 was one of the only years where I thought the so called big four PPV's (WM, Summerslam, Survivor Series, Rumble) all delivered good to great PPV's.

The Royal Rumble had a fun undercard with one of the best Rumbles ever.
WM had a great undercard with a few ****+ matches.
Summerslam was a really fun show.
Survivor Series had the first Raw vs Smackdown match and a lot of other good matches.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was able to attend Vengeance 2005, and despite the fact that I didn't have great seats, it was a blast. I was still pretty young at the time, and it was my first PPV, so it's something I'll always remember. Even without the nostalgia, I think it was a great show.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Been doing a lot of watching and thinking when it comes to one John Cena recently. First and foremost, I'm a huge mark for the guy but over the past few months, even stretching into last year actually he's been touch and go for me as far as his character goes. Lately though, my mood is changing once again and I'm remembering why I'm such a huge mark for him in the first place. Got to watching a lot of his stuff and have compiled a list of my top 5 favorite John Cena singles matches. These aren't necessarily his best or greatest matches, although I'd consider most of them to be, but rather, my personal favorites. So then, in no order:




> _"What's more important is what's running down his leg...piss."_
> 
> *John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2012*
> 
> ...


Thoughts, questions, comments lol? I realize that some may see these as being overrated in terms of snowflakes but they are personal favorites of mine so obviously I'm going to hold them in high regard.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My top 5 for Cena purely off memory would probably be:

Cena/Punk MITB 2011 - *****
Cena/Lesnar ER 2012 - ****3/4
Cena/HBK - Raw 2007 - ****1/2
Cena/Umaga RR 2007 - ****1/4
Cena/Edge TLC Unforgiven - ****1/4

I love the NOC match against HHH as well.

edit - The Mania 22 match against HHH probably would be one of my favorite matches of all time had HHH won. I know why Cena won, but the atmosphere (and my love for HHH at the time) made me want H to win so badly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Cena matches:

1. Vs Punk MITB 2011 - ****3/4
2. Vs Punk SS 2011 - ****1/2
3. Vs HBK Raw 2007 - ****1/4
4. Vs Lesnar ER 2011 - ****1/4
5. Vs Orton NWO 2008 - ****


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Great post *Starbuck*. 

The big change I would be inclined to make is to add the match CM Punk VS John Cena, Money in the Bank 2011. Now, I am a bit biased due to being a massive CM Punk mark. 

My reasoning though is that is was an example of what Cena can do against hostility. Much like ONS 2006 VS Rob Van Dam. The whole crowd, each reaction to Cena's moves. In the end, holding true to his character only to cost him everything.

However, I can see why you can also easily exclude it. Because this list is a John Cena list. Whereas despite that match being one of his performances, it was truly a defining match for CM Punk, and it was a night about CM Punk.

Thoughts? Hope I made sense :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

By top you guys mean favorite right? If I was listing his top 5 then my list would look a little different. These were just my personal favorites. After doing that I might do one for a few others too. Hmmm.

EDIT - That's what I'm getting at *NearFall* lol. If I was doing his top matches then vs. Punk and vs. HBK would be in there without a doubt. This list was just for favorites.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My list counts as both pretty much lol. Would probably put the Orton NWO 08 match higher for a pure favourites lists, but other than that I'd keep the same matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Like Cal, mine pretty much constituted both. I'd probably include vs HBK from Mania 23 over the TLC and vs HHH NOC 2008 over the Umaga match if we're talking strictly favorites.

I really need to watch vs. Punk from Summerslam 2011 again. For some reason I can't remember much about it other than Nash's return.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Top 5 Cena matches, off by memory:

1. vs. Punk MITB 2011 - *****
2. vs. Michaels RAW 2007 - ****1/2
3. vs. Punk Summerslam 2011 - ****1/2
4. vs. Edge Unforgiven 2006 - ****1/2
5. vs. Edge Backlash 2009 - ****1/4

HM: Michaels (WM23), Michaels, Edge, Orton (Backlash07)

I'm a big fan of the guy's in ring work. Along with Punk, these two are easily the only guys I really care to see wrestle on WWE's roster. So, why not:

CM Punk's top 5 matches: (WWE)

1. vs. John Cena MITB 2011 - ***** I need to see this match again, for the 57th time.
2. vs. Daniel Bryan OTL 2011 - ****1/2
3. vs. Jeff Hardy Summerslam 2009 - ****1/2
4. vs. John Cena Summerslam 2011 - ****1/2
5. vs. Chris Jericho Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****1/4

HM: Hardy - Cage Match (SD 2009), Mysterio (Armageddon08, ER10, CP11), Jericho (ER12)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I loved that Summerslam match until I watched it back about a month ago and it did absolutely nothing for me. Ended up turning it off before the end actually. Don't know what happened lol.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Man, I haven't watched that Umaga match in a good while. I do remember loving it though when I first ordered the Rumble PPV that year, but haven't seen it since then. I think I like most of the matches that Starbuck listed except maybe besides Summerslam (didn't really cared for what the match offered outside of wanting Orton to win).

Top five Cena matches for me in no order would go...

Cena vs. HBK vs. Orton vs. Edge at Backlash 2007 (best fatal four way EVER for me (Y))
Cena vs. Michaels at Raw 2007 before Backlash
Punk vs. Cena: MITB 2011
Cena vs. Edge (Last Man Standing) at Backlash 2009 
Lesnar vs. Cena at Extreme Rules this year

And even though it's not in my top five, Cena vs. Edge vs. Triple H at Backlash 2006 is one of my favorite triple threat matches to watch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What was the Cena/Edge match from Backlash '09? Just another match I need to add to the list. I swear my memory is getting terrible.

edit - forgot about the Backlash 07 Fatal Fourway. That match was awesome. Would probably include that in my list. ****1/2 iirc


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Edge/HHH is so much fucking fun. It's also one of my favorite triple threats ever too. Just a fun match with all 3 guys personalities bouncing off each other perfectly. Trips bleeding like a stuck pig is pretty awesome too lol.

The list was just for single matches btw. If I was to include multiman matches then I'd possibly have either Cena/Edge/HHH or Cena/HHH/HBK in there which I completely adore. That SCM at the beginning never gets old lol.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> What was the Cena/Edge match from Backlash '09? Just another match I need to add to the list. I swear my memory is getting terrible.
> 
> edit - forgot about the Backlash 07 Fatal Fourway. That match was awesome. Would probably include that in my list. ****1/2 iirc


Backlash '09 was the Last Man Standing. I remember loving this match and when I recently watched it back it was just as good as I remembered it being. Even liked Big Show's interference. 

Great list Starbuck. I guess my list counts as both top, and personal favourites.

Edit: Starback*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^ :hhh

I watched Orton's doc as well so I'll do one for him too after I get through watching the few matches of his I have left.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I liked the Edge/HHH/Cena triple threat a bunch, too.

I'll check out Edge/Cena LMS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have far too many favorite Cena matches for a top 5, but I'll name as many as I can come up with off the top of my head.

vs Punk (MITB 11)
vs Orton (NWO 08)
vs JBL (JD 05)
vs Lesnar (ER 12)
vs HHH (WM22)
vs Umaga (RR 07)
vs Edge (Unforgiven 06)
vs Jericho (SS 05)
vs The Rock (WM28)
vs Batista (SS 08)

Favorite TV matches:
vs HBK (Raw 07)
vs Undertaker (SD 03)
vs Benoit (SD 03)
vs Mysterio (Raw 11)
vs Edge (Raw 06)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena's best matches:

vs Punk MITB 2011
vs Lesnar Extreme Rules 2012
vs Michaels Wrestlemania 23
vs Michaels London 2007
vs Mysterio Raw 2011

HHH NOC 2008, Orton NWO 2008 and Summerslam 2007, vs JBL I Quit 2005, vs Umaga Royal Rumble 2007, vs HHH/HBK Survivor Series 2009 and vs Punk Summerslam 2011 are also also really fucking good. As is Cena/Show from Smackdown 2009.


*LadyKiller*- Cena/Edge Backlash 2009 was a LMS match and billed as their feud ender. Personally not a big fan of it as I found it to be too relient on huge spots rather than something like HHH/Jericho LMS from Fully Loaded, but a lot of people consider it close with Unforgiven 2006 as their best encounter.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one who liked vs HBK Mania 23 better than their London match? Maybe I've just seen it more times since the London match is much longer.

edit - thanks, SC. I'll definitely check it out.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuck. I completely forgot about vs. JBL I Quit. Another great one. Also, it's nice to see somebody else giving Cena/Mysterio some love. I adore that thing. What a gem. We need Cena/Rey on PPV tbh.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nope, I don't think there's an awful lot between them but I prefer the Wrestlemania match. Just feels a bigger match with the atmosphere and story of Cena basically having to prove himself against HBK the year after he put down HHH. A few people seem to take umbridge with Cena's selling of the leg, but I found it to be a minor part of the match where HBK attacks the leg not so much as the sole basis of his offence/strategy, but rather to ground and contain Cena and keep the momentum. Cena shaking the leg and then progressively selling it less makes sense to me as Michaels moves away from the leg and busts out more of his standard offence mixed in with a couple of fresher spots to put over the magnitude of the match, e.g piledriver on the steps.

I do think the London match is a better Cena performance however, as I find him to be the better worker by quite a distance from HBK on that night and the fact they can go for such a length of time and keep me enthralled every step of the way really speaks highly of Cena that night since HBK isn't my favourite guy post comeback, especially in longer matches.

EDIT: Mysterio match is superb, everything from them countering each other's signature offence to Rey's legwork paying off with Cena buckling and collapsing on an AA attempt, fuck I love that match. Perfect sub 15 minute main event and what strikes me about it is I reckon they could easily eclipse that encounter on PPV and offer up a whole new dynamic to the match in the process.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is it the Mysterio/Cena match for the title? That match was awesome. Need to see it again. Only saw it live and that's it.

edit - I also agree that Cena was more impressive in the London bout, but the Mania match is definitely my favorite if I was forced to choose between the two. The story of taking down DX on consecutive Manias made it for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Funnily enough, I watched the other match Cena and Rey have had just yesterday. I'm talking about the one which Cena turned face afterwards with Team Lesnar attacking him. Another quality encounter between them. It's a feud that should have happened but as usual, WWE missed another golden opportunity with Mysterio, just like HHH/Rey which could have been great.

And I hate the WM23 match with HBK. Way too one-sided for me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah, the night after MITB I think. I read that Rey is legit concussed again which completely sucks. I get that WWE are probably busting for Rey/Sin Cara but I'm personally busting for HHH/Rey first time ever and Cena/Rey second time ever lol, both on PPV plz.

EDIT - Are Cena and Taker the only guys to take down DX at back to back Wrestlemania's? Cool little stat lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, couldn't care less about Rey/Cara, but would love a proper HHH/Rey feud/match with H playing the heel.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Heel HHH vs. Mysterio = :mark: So fucking pissed this never happened in 2006.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rey vs Bryan, Rey vs Bryan, Rey vs Bryan. Swear to christ put that on PPV WWE and you have my money, dancing contests, Flo Rida performing a Stone Roses song whatever. I will buy that shit and not complain so long as you give them anything above 15 minutes.

Mysterio/Mcintyre, Mysterio/HHH and Mysterio/Cena all also need PPV time. I'd also love to see Mysterio challenge Sheamus if they're planning on holding off on Sheamus/Orton till Survivor Series. Hell I'd prefer Orton to leave the title picture altogether and just run Mysterio as Sheamus's challenger, think they could work a really fun babyface/babyface match as well as David vs Goliath and its a completely fresh match-up from the tired and tested ADR/Sheamus feud.

Del Rio/Sheamus continuing is proof someone in creative is a sadist/masochist/disturbed fuck. Pick a name for it, principle remains the same.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Yeah, the night after MITB I think. I read that Rey is legit concussed again which completely sucks. I get that WWE are probably busting for Rey/Sin Cara but I'm personally busting for HHH/Rey first time ever and Cena/Rey second time ever lol, both on PPV plz.
> 
> EDIT - Are Cena and Taker the only guys to take down DX at back to back Wrestlemania's? Cool little stat lol.


If killing two birds with one stone counts, Benoit also did that in one Wrestlemania. (and back to back PPVs) And on the other side of the fence, Jericho lost to DX in back to back WMs.

And outside of the Rumble, I think we get a bit of action between Hunter and Mysterio at the Saturday Night Main Event on that tag team match between Cena/HHH vs Rey/Orton/Angle.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Cenas Top 5 matches

vs Punk MITB 2011 (*****)
vs HBK Raw 2007 (**** 1/2)
vs Brock Lesnar ER 2011 (**** 1/2)
vs Punk SS 2011 (**** 1/2)
vs HBK Wm 23 (**** 1/2)

HM- vs Edge UN 06, Umaga RR 07, vs Edge BL 09, vs Rey Raw 11, vs HBK Orton Edge BL 07, vs Angle NM 03, vs orton SS 07, vs hhh NOC 2008

Does anyone else think highly of Cena vs Angle No Mercy 2003?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Whilst we're discussing Raw vs SD tags, Cena/HBK vs Batista/Taker from NWO 2007 is really fucking good. Loved how Cena/HBK were played up as being at a disadvantage due to Cena not trusting HBK fully, but by the end its Batista and Taker who have problems.

Also, re fantasy booking. Henry vs Cena & Henry vs Mysterio pretty please. No chance in hell those matches wouldn't deliver.


Also am I the only one really fucking excited for Punk/Lawler for the title on a future Raw? Apparently there's a RAW taping in Nashville in October and they'd be fucking nuts not to book the match there and then if they actually want to book 1 match between them. Lawler's still got the goods in the ring as shown by the Miz match from last year and his various indy matches in Memphis, and Punk is Punk. He'll get a good match out of a shitstain with his stooging and personality let alone Jerry fuckin' Lawler in Tennesse.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Rey vs Bryan, Rey vs Bryan, Rey vs Bryan. Swear to christ put that on PPV WWE and you have my money, dancing contests, Flo Rida performing a Stone Roses song whatever. I will buy that shit and not complain so long as you give them anything above 15 minutes.
> 
> 
> > Agreed its probably at this moment my dream match on the current roster.
> > You really cant tell me if this is given 15-20 minutes it wouldnt be a classic.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its even better with Bryan being heel, I mean I do love babyface Bryan but I really think he's more suited to working against people like Henry as a babyface, since he's excelled at the David vs Goliath match formula. The only other match style I think he can really work expertly in WWE as a babyface would be some World of Sport/mat based match against a fellow babyface where they treat it like Benoit/Finlay, i.e put over the stiff and brutal nature of the match and make both guys look tough as well as skilled. As good as he is, Bryan as a babyface against the likes of Sin Cara and co just wasn't given the chance to really stand out as a performer, but the minute he worked Henry he looked legit and it was due to the size difference and Bryan's style being a perfect contrast to Henry's.

Mysterio is arguably the best babyface performer in the company, and Bryan can certainly work wonders with the best in WWE especially as guys like Mysterio will have no trouble playing more to Danielson's natural game instead of him having to stick mainly to a pure WWE style.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Top 5 Favourite John Cena Matches*

1. John Cena vs CM Punk Summerslam 2011
2. John Cena vs CM Punk Money in the Bank 2011
3. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar Extreme Rules 2012
4. John Cena vs Triple H Wrestlemania 22
5. (TIE) John Cena vs Edge vs Triple H Backlash 2006 
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H Survivor Series 2009

*Top 5 BEST John Cena Matches*

1. John Cena vs CM Punk Money in the Bank 2011 : *******
2. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar Extreme Rules 2012 : ***** 1/2*
3. John Cena vs CM Punk Summerslam 2011 : ***** 1/2*
4. John Cena vs Umaga Royal Rumble 2007 : ***** 1/2*
5. John Cena/Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker/Batista No Way Out 2007 : ***** 1/2*

Punk Cena I & II are probably both in my top 10 favourites of all time. 

Speaking of single branded PPV's , *Vengeance 2005* is the top of the line with nothing else really touching it whatsoever. It has one of the greatest blowoff matches EVER for a main event, a fantastic triple threat match, ANGLE-HBK II (not a popular match by any means but a personal fav of mine ) , a Kane-Edge match that is WAAAYY better than it should be, and a great opener. The closest event to it in my mind (and I'm probably gonna get some heat for saying this) would be *Armageddon 2006*. It had a FANTASTIC ladder match, and two fucking downright GREAT blowoff matches in Taker-Kennedy and MVP-Kane. Anytime you get 3 gimmick matches on one PPV and all of them actually make sense and DELIVER, it's a great show. You always have Helms taking on Wang Yang in a good bout, and Benoit-Chavo in one of Chavo's best matches ever. Haven't seen the main event in a REAL long time, but even if it's bad, it doesn't drag down an otherwise AMAZING show.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Don't remember much of Chavo/Benoit but Chavo's greatest match and performance will always be vs Mysterio at the Great American Bash 2004 for me. Probably the best Juniors style WWE match they've done, though Noble/Mysterio Velocity 2004 is really fucking close. Eddie/Mysterio wouldn't count as a juniors/cruiserweight match for me especially in WWE & Tajiri/Mysterio whilst great in its own right is below Chavo/Rey GAB 2004 and Noble/Mysterio Velocity 2004.

That Multi-man Ladder match might be favourite Ladder match that isn't between two guys, that or TLC III from Smackdown 2001 just for the sheer insanity and them working the Benoit injury and potential McMahon screwjob story into the match. MITB I from Wrestlemania 21 might also round out my top 3 multi-man ladder matches, again thanks almost entirely to Benoit incorporating selling into a ladder match rather than just making it a collection of impressive/dangerous spots.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Bored as hell so watching Best of Raw and Smackdown 2011. Might watch Stone Cold or the Rocks recent DVDs. Been on Netflix for a while and never bothered to watch any of them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agree with you 100 percent SC , I fucking LOVE Rey-Chavo from GAB 04, and I feel that along with Eddie-JBL, it salvages what's supposed to be one of the worst PPVs of all time. Don't get me wrong, the show is still terrible, just not AS terrible. 

*Money in the Bank 2012*

_Smackdown Money in the Bank Ladder Match_

This is a great crash and burn type ladder match to open the show, just what the crowd needed to get them going for sure. I already knew going into this that the match was going to be more SPOTZ based than the Raw match , especially looking at some of the guys in this one (looking at you Mr. Ziggler) , and they didn't disappoint at all. Every man in the match is given their time to shine in this one, from Tyson Kidd's (PUSH THE MAN) innovative rope-ladder-powerbomb type move, to Tensai destroying everything in sight. Speaking of Tensai, he has 2 really good moments during this match. The first one comes when he powerbombs Sin Cara on a ladder reminiscent of last years match, and the second is a throw across the announce table to Ziggler, who sells it PERFECTLY.

Surprisingly, Cody Rhodes was pretty quiet in this one (the only thing I can think of that was really noteworthy from him would be those disaster kicks all over the place) , while Sandow was kept pretty much in check as well. The MVP of this match was the man that everybody thought would be the best in this one, DOLPH ZIGGLER. He was selling for everybody, showing off his ability to make just about anybody look good, bumping all over the place. In the end, this was a smartly designed spotfest with some great aerial moments, and some great power moments as well to add to the diversity of the match. The drama of not knowing who was going to win definitely helped, but all in all this was a picture perfect opener.

**** 1/2*

_Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio_

"Who the HELL would want to watch Alberto Del Rio and Sheamus on PPV for the World Heavyweight Championship?" ... That's what I said a few days before this match occured. I just didn;t think these two had styles that would contrast to each other very well, coupled with the fact that these two generally bore me, but what we got in this one was a pleasant surprise compared to what I was originally expecting. Alberto wisely goes after the left arm in this one, sticking to it for almost the entire match, and Sheamus sells accordingly making for some good psychology in this one. Every move Sheamus made he seemed to be clutching his left arm and I thought that was a really nice touch to get across the arm work that Del Rio had been doing to him.

Say what you want about Del Rio, but his enzuguri's are the absolute best in the world. I mean, MY GOD.. The velocity and fierceness of the move is probably what makes it the best move in his arsenal, but I'm a fan of it regardless. Anyways, they get some really good counters in here, as Sheamus allows ADR to do most of the work in this one (probably a smart choice). The battering ram into a double knee armbreaker was SICK and it actually made me somewhat interested in Del Rio for once. Anti-climatic finish with Sheamus winning and all, but after it.... SADLY I wanted to see more. Just a great match from these two, and definitely PPV worthy.

*****

Primo/Epico vs The Primetime Playas : *** 1/4*

_CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan W/Special Referee AJ_

These two put on my MOTY so far at Over The Limit, so I was very curious to see what they would do here out of the element of just a PURE wrestling match. This was a whole different set-up than their previous encounters , in the sense that these weren't two people just fighting over who was the best in the world anymore ; it became more about the whole AJ love triangle. I felt that the dynamic of THAT added into the match did some things right, but I felt it also took away some of the one on one magic that these two have had in the past. We still get all of the ferocious kicks and strikes with tons of substance that we were getting in the OTL matchup, but we weren't getting the tons of HOLDS that we got in the OTL matchup.

The fact that this was No-DQ was kind of ambivalent to me. For instance, I LOVE how they made the Kendo stick seem much more valuable by holding off on using it and fighting to see who would get the first strike. That exchange was VERY realistic to what would actually happen in that scenario, which differs from say an ECW style match where you get the weapon and just beat a figurative dead horse with it until it's rendered useless. However, I felt that the OTL match had more intensity involved because of PRIDE between the two men. Here, it was more of a case of AJ AJ AJ and how much she could be shoved down our throats. Don't get me wrong, this match is fucking FANTASTIC, and I love the bit where AJ introduces a chair into the match and lets the two men just go at it, but besides that sequence, her appearance is totally fucking POINTLESS.

Loved the nearfalls in this one, plus the LEBELL/YES/NO/MAYBE/PROBABLY LOCK with the Kendo stick was good (NOT great) and innovative for what it was. The ending bit with the table getting the pinfall wasn't as anticlimatic as some people said, as I thought it was a great way to finish a great match. This match is FANTASTIC and the obvious pick for MOTY. It's a completely different match than the OTL one, and although it doesn't touch DAT GREATNESS, it's still a fantastic contest between the two best wrestlers in the world.

******

Ryback vs Curt Hawkins/Tyler Reks : ***
Divas 6 Wo-MAN tag : ***

_Raw MITB Ladder Match_

Just looking at the five men participating in this one , I knew it wasn't going to be a SPOTZ type of match , and I also knew that it wouldn't match the fast pace of the previous ladder match. However, this match is pretty great in it's own right due to clever booking, and allowing the right men to control the match and direct it at the right times. I might as well just run down the individual performances of all 5 men starting with The Miz... He doesn't really do much in this one besides get bitched around every now and then, I would say he bumps around for everybody else but he's just THERE so I don't really know what to say. The Kane-FU-Ladder spot to his credit was very impressive for Miz. Big Show dominates early but then gets buried under a pile of ladders until the end of the match in some smart booking, and proceeds to play his part as the dominant force in the matchup who is going to destroy everyone else. Kane plays the replacement monster while Show is buried under some ladders, throwing everybody around for portions of the match.

Jericho is the FUCKING MAN and the bonafide MVP of the matchup. Most of the match he's on the offensive, and he manages to take workers like Show and MIZ and make their interactions worth seeing. Every pander to the crowd, every move, ever sell, I don't think I've been more impressed with a Jericho performance than in this match (somewhat serious). Cena is pretty good with his mixture of power moves making him able to be involved in some good spots, and his selling is pretty good in this one as well. At the end of the day, this match was more great in the BOOKING department than in actual workrate. A very SMART kind of match that told a pretty good story (well, the best you can tell in a fucking MITB match ) and although there was NO drama, this somewhat impressed me. Great stuff.

**** 1/4*

_Thoughts_

This show is 2012 summed up in a nutshell ; every match that was ADVERTISED for this PPV (only 4 out of 7) delivered what it needed to. The opener was full of SPOTZ and set a fast pace for the rest of the show, Sheamus-ADR had some good action and some great psychology, Punk-Bryan was fucking AWESOME and the MOTN , while the Raw MITB was a smartly booked, great match. Where this show falters is in the 3 unadvertised matches ; One which was actually a decent match (although nobody cared), a BAD squash, and a BAD Divas match. However, I understand that those 3 matches take up very little time on the PPV while the real meat and potatoes comes from the advertised matches. 

When this show delivers, you feel as if it's a GREAT show, but when the filler is on, you're kind of like WTF ? For me, it's the HARDEST kind of show to grade, but I came away from this one pumped and wanting more Sheamus-Del Rio , Punk-Bryan, Jericho, and definitely Ziggler.. So I guess the show did it's job. It's in the MIDDLE of shows this year (above RR, EC, and NWO, but below ER, WM, and OTL) , and since this has been a pretty great year thus far, I can't really complain whatsoever. It's Money in the Bank, these shows ALWAYS find a way to deliver one way or another. PS : Definitely check out Punk-Bryan if you haven't seen it.

*7 / 10*


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Mysterio vs. Bryan would be incredible. I'm hoping that WWE isn't so stupid as to not give them a 15+ minute match on PPV.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm still waiting for Henry v Christian.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Going with top 20 Cena matches as I really enjoy his work.

1. Cena/Umaga - RR '07 - *****
2. Cena/Punk - MITB '11 - *****
3. Cena/Edge/Orton/HBK - Backlash '07 - ****1/2
4. Cena/HBK - WM 23 - ****1/2
5. Cena/Edge/Trips - Backlash '06 - ****1/2
6. Cena/Edge - Backlash '06 - ****1/2
7. Cena/Orton - NWO '08 - ****1/4
8. Cena/Edge - Unforgiven '06 - ****1/4
9. Cena/Lesnar - Extreme Rules '12 - ****1/4
10. Cena/Triple H - Raw '09 - ****1/4
11. Cena/HBK - Raw '07 - ****1/4
12. Cena/Taker - Vengeance '03 - ****
13. Cena/JBL - JD '05 - ****
14. Cena/Triple H - NOC '08 - ****
15. Cena/RVD - ONS '06 - ****
16. Cena/Punk - SS '11 - ****
17. Cena/HBK - Raw '09 - ***3/4
18. Cena/Del Rio - Vengeance '11 - ***3/4
19. Cena/Mysterio - Raw '11 - ***3/4
20. Cena/Batista - SS '08 - ***3/4

Notes:

- Don't remember any of the Angle/Cena matches other than a couple '05 ones that I didn't really care for.

- Would have killed to see Cena/Finlay in '06 and Cena/Benjamin in '05.

- Cena/Umaga from NYR '07 missed the cut but I think it's a really good match that gets overlooked.

- Can't stand most of the Cena/Orton series, especially everything from '09. Really poorly booked stuff.

- Cena/Big Show may have 10 PPV matches together and I really can't find an enjoyable thing about any of them. :/

- A bunch of really solid TV main events from '06 to '08 against people like RVD, Hardy, Umaga, Edge, etc.

- Rough 2012 for Cena so far. I'd blame booking for it though.

Might go through Umaga's career and make a big post rating the PPV matches and any significant TV matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Totally forgot about Cena/Batista from SS 08. I think that'd crack my top 5 favorites, but not top 5 best.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm still waiting for Henry v Christian.


On PPV? They've had a few TV matches. Here are just a couple:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Totally forgot about Cena/Batista from SS 08. I think that'd crack my top 5 favorites, but not top 5 best.


I always forget about Cena/Batista. I really like the match and actually that show as a whole is fun but I literally always forget. :lmao



Clique said:


> On PPV? They've had a few TV matches. Here are just a couple:


Never seen the first one, but I remember liking the 2nd one. Was sort of strange too since they were both heels but I thought it turned out good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 20 Cena Matches:

****1/2
1) vs. Umaga RR07 
2) vs. CM Punk MITB 2011
3) vs. HBK Raw in London 2007
****1/4
4) vs. Edge BL09
5) vs. JBL JD05
6) vs. Edge vs. Orton vs. HBK BL07
7) vs. Punk SS11
****
8) vs. Orton SS07
9) vs. Edge Unforgiven 06
10) vs. Undertaker Vengeance 03
11) vs. RVD ONS 06
12) vs. HHH NOC08
13) vs. Undertaker SD 2004
14) vs. Batista SS08
15) vs. HBK WM23
16) w/HBK vs. Undertaker/Batista NWO07
17) vs. HHH Raw 2009 before BR
18) vs. Orton NWO08
19) vs. Edge vs. HHH BL06
20) vs. HBK Raw 09 (first match I believe)

How many matches from each year he's been with WWE made the list:

02- 0
03- 1 (1 top 10)
04- 1
05- 1 (1 top 5)
06- 3 (1 top 10)
07- 6 (4 top 10, 2 top 3 and the number 1 match for Cena in this year)
08- 3 
09- 3 (1 top 5)
10- 0
11- 2 (Both top 10, one top 2)
12- 0

2007 was obviously Cena's best year. Had two classics and several other near classics/awesome matches.

Also a match that JUST missed the cut was Cena/HBK/HHH SVS 2009. I could probably put that in the number 20 spot any day.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FUCK I forgot about Taker/Batista vs HBK/Cena. That match fucking owns.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't remember that tag match either. Assuming that was just prior to WM 23?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

They had a tag match in the main event of No Way Out 2007 and at the go home show before WrestleMania 23. The go home tag is an extra on the WM23 DVD.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Which is the one people are raving over? NWO? Or are they both good?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yep, what Clique said. (Y)

One of the few times I've really, really enjoyed the whole strange bedfellows tag match concept.

Edit: I'd say the NWO one was better but the Raw one is pretty damn good too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The NWO tag is better. It was a clash of the titans style pace in tag team form. Undertaker and Batista would continue that pace in their match a WrestleMania.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

On the subject, TAKER/BATISTA SERIES~!

WM - ****1/2
Backlash LMS - ****1/4
Smckdown cage match - ***1/2
Cyber Sunday - ****1/2
Survivor Series HIAC - ****1/4

Such an amazing feud.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Was Cyber Sunday when Batista pinned Taker clean? I really need to watch that series of matches again. I remember Mania more than the others, other than the outcomes, and that match OWNED.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

LOVE the Taker/Batista series

WrestleMania 23 - **** 1/2 
Backlash LMS - ****
SD Cage Match - *** 3/4
Cyber Sunday - **** 1/4
Survivor Series HIAC - **** 1/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> *Was Cyber Sunday when Batista pinned Taker clean?* I really need to watch that series of matches again. I remember Mania more than the others, other than the outcomes, and that match OWNED.


Yep, that was the one with Austin as ref too. (Y)

I could watch the WM match a million times.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The WrestleMania match never gets old Brye I agree. Taker and Batista throwing bombs at the pace they were going was tremendous to see. That was the first WrestleMania I ever attended and I sat in awe watching them go at it. My 2007 Match of the Year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> The WrestleMania match never gets old Brye I agree. Taker and Batista throwing bombs at the pace they were going was tremendous to see. That was the first WrestleMania I ever attended and I sat in awe watching them go at it.


Damn, you've been to like 3 or 4 WMs now, right?

I remember going into that match I wasn't really sure how they were going to mesh and then afterwards having no doubts that the rest of their matches would be awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Batista was so fucking awesome. :lmao 

Yeah, I love that Mania match. Gotta locate the rest of that series now.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye said:


> Damn, you've been to like 3 or 4 WMs now, right?


WM 23, 25, 26, and 28. : 




The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I love that Mania match. Gotta locate the rest of that series now.


(Y) Just stay far away from the Chairs Match they had at TLC 2009. Very disappointing match and stupid gimmick.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Clique said:


> WM 23, 25, 26, and 28. :


Must be nice, dude!




> (Y) Just stay far away from the Chairs Match they had at TLC 2009. Very disappointing match and stupid gimmick.


Forgot about that one. Never really been a fan of Chairs matches, anyway. I agree, the gimmick is weak.

Just read an interesting stat while I was tracking down the Mania match: Taker is the only man to defeat both DX and Evolution @ Mania. :hb


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

You saw both Taker/HBK matches live? 

Taker's credentials are insane.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think every WWE fan should attend at least one WrestleMania. Being a part of the weekend activities and meeting all the superstars, legends, divas, and other wrestling fans is just a feel-good experience, especially the first time. Even if Mania isn't the best "wrestling show" in the world I can't see you not enjoying the atmosphere and grandness presented at the show.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> I think every WWE fan should attend at least one WrestleMania. Being a part of the weekend activities and meeting all the superstars, legends, divas, and other wrestling fans is just a feel-good experience, participatory the first time. Even if Mania isn't the best "wrestling show" in the world I can't see you not enjoying the atmosphere and grandness presented at the show.


I'm trying to go to either a WM or Summerslam in the next couple years so that I can get in on all the week's events. SS being in LA doesn't really help but I'm still considering it and I have a friend that is going to be living in LA full time come October.

WM coming to Boston in a year or two would own.

So far in my life I've been to 2 Raw houseshows (2006 & 2011), 1 ECW houseshow (2008), 1 Raw (2007) and 1 TNA houseshow (2007)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It's been a dream of mine to attend WrestleMania for a while. I get really excited being in the crowd for an episode of RAW, so being around tens of thousands of other diehards would be amazing. However, since I'm a broke student, I'll have to wait until I get a job to even consider it.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

@Flux: And dont forget Vengeance 2002, Angle/Taker/Rock (my favorite Triple Threat of all time, above Wrestlemania XX by just a bit), Van Dam vs. Lesnar, Edge and Hogan teaming up and more.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye said:


> I'm trying to go to either a WM or Summerslam in the next couple years so that I can get in on all the week's events. SS being in LA doesn't really help but I'm still considering it and I have a friend that is going to be living in LA full time come October.
> 
> WM coming to Boston in a year or two would own.
> 
> So far in my life I've been to 2 Raw houseshows (2006 & 2011), 1 ECW houseshow (2008), 1 Raw (2007) and 1 TNA houseshow (2007)


I've tried to attend the PPVs every time they come to Chicago (really Rosemont) and I have since 2007 except for Money In The Bank 2011. fpalm 

Mania's in Jersey next year. That isn't too far from where you're at?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You didn't go to 22? That was Chicago, yes?

Yeah, I've been mailing it in when it comes to attending events. SS has been in LA (an hour from San Diego) the last few years and I haven't gone. Last event I went to was Extreme Rules 2008 I believe. Been to many events, just never a huge PPV like Mania/SSlam. SSlam is in LA again next year - gonna try to score good seats.

Brye, hit me up if you come to LA plz.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

No, tickets were sold out in like 2 minutes.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> I've tried to attend the PPVs every time they come to Chicago (really Rosemont) and I have since 2007 except for Money In The Bank 2011. fpalm
> 
> Mania's in Jersey next year. That isn't too far from where you're at?


Yeah. (Y) I'm actually thinking about saving and seeing if any of my friends would be down for a road trip. Would be fucked if I had an exam that Monday or something but FUCK IT, WRESTLEMANIA~!


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

As you can probably tell by my sig and username I've come to enjoy Scott Hall/Razor Ramon a lot, but I'll be honest I haven't seen a lot of his work, I'd like to see a lot more, only a handful of matches and promos which got me hooked. 

Besides the obvious Razor and Shawn series, what are some of his best matches? stuff you'd like to recomend for me to go and see. I know he had a good one with Bret on some PPV and in the time he teamed with X Pac on Raw in the early 90's (1-2-3 kid) they put up some good tag team matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> You didn't go to 22? That was Chicago, yes?
> 
> Yeah, I've been mailing it in when it comes to attending events. SS has been in LA (an hour from San Diego) the last few years and I haven't gone. Last event I went to was Extreme Rules 2008 I believe. Been to many events, just never a huge PPV like Mania/SSlam. SSlam is in LA again next year - gonna try to score good seats.
> 
> Brye, hit me up if you come to LA plz.


Of course. 

And Extreme Rules '08...that show was great. (Y)

Shawne Merriman in the kendo stick match. :lmao (That's also an incredibly fun match)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Bad Guy said:


> As you can probably tell by my sig and username I've come to enjoy Scott Hall/Razor Ramon a lot, but I'll be honest I haven't seen a lot of his work, I'd like to see a lot more, only a handful of matches and promos which got me hooked.
> 
> Besides the obvious Razor and Shawn series, what are some of his best matches? stuff you'd like to recomend for me to go and see. I know he had a good one with Bret on some PPV and in the time he teamed with X Pac on Raw in the early 90's (1-2-3 kid) they put up some good tag team matches.


You should watch this match right now. It is an awesome tag team match. Some people on the net call it "The Clique/Kliq Tag" match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Remember my MORRISON OWNS sign that could be seen during the PPV? Someone made me a gif and I used it as my avy for a long time :lmao

I was like the 6th row back behind the commentators.

@ The Bad Guy - check out his WWF title match against Bret @ RR93, and basically anything involving 123 Kid. CRY BABY MATCH~!

edit 2 DUDES WITH ATTITUDES~!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Remember my MORRISON OWNS sign that could be seen during the PPV? Someone made me a gif and I used it as my avy for a long time :lmao
> 
> I was like the 6th row back behind the commentators.
> 
> @ The Bad Guy - check out his WWF title match against Bret @ RR93, and basically anything involving 123 Kid. CRY BABY MATCH~!


Holy shit, I remember that. :lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, might need to shell out some major dough for prime seats at SSlam next year. I checked and ringside is like $1k. Might treat myself. FUCK IT.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think it'd be way too much fun to see a Royal Rumble live. I was thinking of attending next year's since it's in Phoenix, which is about a 6 hour drive, but I have school the next day. Of course, I'm at an age where I shouldn't have to worry about that, but I'm a geek. 

EDIT: SummerSlam in LA doesn't sound too bad either. Might have to give that a look.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I figure it's sort of a once in a lifetime thing (unless you're Clique, then it's a regular Sunday :side:), so I might just go all out. Summerslam/WM Axxcess seem awesome too. Looks like you get to meet tons of superstars.

TLK, did I ever tell you I met Morrison shortly when he was JOHNNY NITRO? :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Batista:

WM - ****1/2
Backlash LMS - ****
Smckdown cage match - ***1/2
Cyber Sunday - ****1/4
Survivor Series HIAC - ****1/4

I believe they also had a great match on SD in 08. Need to re-watch though. And the chairs match was... eh... let's just forget about that. 

Undertaker is no doubt Batista's best opponent. Arguably has Batista's best match ever (though it's very arguable because of Batista/HHH HIAC), but even if it's not the best, just the consistency of their matches is amazing and that's what made the Taker/Batista series so awesome. Besides the chairs match they never had a bad match, even when Taker was injured for that cage match. Hell, I don't even consider the chairs match that bad, just very bad for a Taker/Batista match.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Thanks guys. 

Did Hall also have any classics in WCW or by than was he already addicted and out of shape? cause when I ask about his best matches all I hear abuot are his matches in 1993-1995 WWF, nothing WCW for some reason.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> I think it'd be way too much fun to see a Royal Rumble live. I was thinking of attending next year's since it's in Phoenix, which is about a 6 hour drive, but I have school the next day. Of course, I'm at an age where I shouldn't have to worry about that, but I'm a geek.
> 
> EDIT: SummerSlam in LA doesn't sound too bad either. Might have to give that a look.


Rumble is in Phoenix? Fuck, that's about a 6 hour drive for me, too. Might need to make the trek. I've always wanted to attend a Rumble.



Brye said:


> TLK, did I ever tell you I met Morrison shortly when he was JOHNNY NITRO? :lmao


:lmao You did? Was he as LEGIT as he appears on TV?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Rumble is in Phoenix? Fuck, that's about a 6 hour drive for me, too. Might need to make the trek. I've always wanted to attend a Rumble.
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao You did? Was he as LEGIT as he appears on TV?


He was full on heel. :lmao It was right before a houseshow in '06 and some people came over in the parking lot to sign stuff like MICKIE, Kane & Fink. Then Nitro comes over with Melina and a kid walks over and he just chucked the kid's pen. :lmao Told him I was a fan of his and he said he was surprised he had fans. Can't tell if he meant that because he was heel or thought he wasn't popular. :side: Seemed like a chill guy, but Melina seemed like a bitch. ~___~

Mickie was nice as fuck tho. Got a pic with her but it was back in the day of DISPOSABLE CAMERAS and it came out like shit.

Nitro/Carlito/Benjamin happened that night as a rematch from Vengeance and it was EPIC. Better than the PPV one, imo.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao that's fucking hilarious. MORRISON

Yeah, back in the mid-to-late 90s when I attended shows I brought disposable cameras and they were usually pretty blurry. I was front row at a house show, though, so got super close up pics of Rock when he was in the NATION, and my mom took a pic of me hugging Sable as she went to the ring. She leaned over the rail and hugged me. I was a horny little 14 year old so I thought that was pretty awesome.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, might need to shell out some major dough for prime seats at SSlam next year. I checked and ringside is like $1k. Might treat myself. FUCK IT.


Even if you wanted to go without spending that type of money you could get some great riser seats that aren't as pricey. I know when I went to Extreme Rules the tickets in the riser section were like $70 each + fees. 

Great view too



Spoiler: ER pic


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Rumble is in Phoenix? Fuck, that's about a 6 hour drive for me, too. Might need to make the trek. I've always wanted to attend a Rumble.


I think the Rumble is 2nd to Mania for Big 4 PPVs I'd want to attend. I'd obviously mark out for the surprise returns, but I also want to see The Rock wrestle live.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao that's fucking hilarious. MORRISON
> 
> Yeah, back in the mid-to-late 90s when I attended shows I brought disposable cameras and they were usually pretty blurry. I was front row at a house show, though, so got super close up pics of Rock when he was in the NATION, and my mom took a pic of me hugging Sable as she went to the ring. She leaned over the rail and hugged me. I was a horny little 14 year old so I thought that was pretty awesome.


:datass

That's fucking sick, by the way. So awesome. Love houseshows since everything is so much more interactive.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I attended house shows back in the Hogan/Savage/Bossman/Rude days but I was a little too young to remember much.

Damn, Clique, those are pretty good seats. I think my ER 08 seats were like $100 for 6th row, but I was obviously floor level so my view wasn't as good as a riser would be. Luckily I'm tall at least.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I think my question on the end of the last page may have been overlooked  I'll repeat myself. 

Whenever I ask about Razor Ramon/Scott Hall's best matches, all that is brought up is his WWF tenure (1993-1995), but no WCW matches are menitoned. When he came to WCW was he already "out of it?", by than was he addicted and out of shape or did he still have some notible classics?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Bad Guy said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Did Hall also have any classics in WCW or by than was he already addicted and out of shape? cause when I ask about his best matches all I hear abuot are his matches in 1993-1995 WWF, nothing WCW for some reason.


The infamous tag match from Bash at the Beach 1996 and the War Games match at Fall Brawl 1996 immediately standout to me for Scott Hall in WCW.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Bad Guy said:


> I think my question on the end of the last page may have been overlooked  I'll repeat myself.
> 
> Whenever I ask about Razor Ramon/Scott Hall's best matches, all that is brought up is his WWF tenure (1993-1995), but no WCW matches are menitoned. When he came to WCW was he already "out of it?", by than was he addicted and out of shape or did he still have some notible classics?


He was still in good shape when he and Nash invaded WCW as the Outsiders. They had pretty good tag matches against Harlem Heat if I recall. Look for those.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Don't wanna rub it in, but this time next week when wwe comes to Australia I'll be watching punk vs Bryan submission match.

Safe to say I can't wait


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

The only event I was at was the WWF Global Warming Tour in 2002, it was the only "PPV sized House Show" ever in Australia and had Lesnar/HHH/Rock as the main event. Rikishi and Rico in a kiss my ass match and a tag team title match which was pretty good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Somewhat relevant:

My friend that's moving to LA worked as an intern over there (he's into television production and writing) and he actually met the lady that played Shelton's mama in '06. :lmao

Kinda want to go to a houseshow soon for a DIBIASE POSSE PARTY. :argh: I'm still a fan of him.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

on the topic of trying to find WCW classics for Hall, what about this match. I was browsing throuhg youtube and found it, haven't sat through and watched it though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Where the fuck is DiBiase? Is he still injured/filming a movie/being buried?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Where the fuck is DiBiase? Is he still injured/filming a movie/being buried?


I think he's working houseshows as of right now, but that just started recently. I think he was healed up a little while ago but took time off because he has a newborn son.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Bad Guy said:


> on the topic of trying to find WCW classics for Hall, what about this match. I was browsing throuhg youtube and found it, haven't sat through and watched it though.


Apparently he had a ladder match against Goldberg in 99. No idea how it turned out but it sounds interesting despite Hall being pretty far gone by that point.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Wasn't he going to be apart of the new "marine" film? or was that changed?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Didn't like that Hall/Sting match. I'm not really a fan of Hall's matches in WCW tbh. He has much better stuff in WWF.

Ramon vs. Michaels Raw 08/11/1994 is a very good TV. Probably better than anything he did in his singles run in WCW.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Apparently he had a ladder match against Goldberg in 99. No idea how it turned out but it sounds interesting despite Hall being pretty far gone by that point.


oh god, that sounds horrid, probably WCW trying to rekindle his Ladder classics with Shawn Michaels but with Goldberg? someone who couldn't barely leave his feet. I can imagine how horrible it was.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Probably the most legit moment of his WCW run is when he was DUAL champ. He defended both against Booker T that night, then threw the TV title in the trash can like a week later :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Probably the most legit moment of his WCW run is when he was DUAL champ. He defended both against Booker T that night, then threw the TV title in the trash can like a week later :lmao


The Rick Ross music playing over that makes it even better. :lmao


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I dont seem to be able to fidn the gif or vide, someone had it in their sig for a while but one of my favorite Hall moments was when he was being helped out of the ring after a match and threw up, I think on Bischoff.

*Lady Killer*, your location is annoying me, change it  Octopus's isn't even a word. Octopi


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah they made his real-life alcoholism part of his gimmick. :/

edit - IT'S THE NAME OF THE SONG. And besides, it's possessive, not plural.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Bad Guy said:


> *Lady Killer*, your location is annoying me, change it  Octopus's isn't even a word. Octopi


Tell Ringo Starr that


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Razor had probably his best non-Michaels match against Jeff Jarrett at the 95 Rumble. His Goldust matches are fun too. Not sure he ever had a good singles match in WCW, but he's a good shit-stirrer heel when he needs to be.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't go wrong with any of the HBK/Razor matches. Enjoyed a couple of his matches with Diesel too. Both Jarrett matches (RR and WM), Bret (RR), and against Kid. 

Just a shame when he got to WCW he phoned it in while getting a stupid amount of guaranteed money, then his problems got worse preventing him from even trying.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I watched Bork's matches against Cena and Hunter :cool2

Talk about being late... But the ending of both matches bugged me. No selling the Pedigree? Huh? And, Cena winning after being Bork's bitch?

The action of Cena/Bork was surreal though. I don't know what to rate it. Probably **** 1/2. Had Bork won, I'd have gone higher.

Hunter/Lesnar was a psychological battle and loved the slow style. Not as epic as Bork against Superman but really liked it. ****.

Bork vs. Underman looks to be Undertaker's 'Mania match. Would be epic and the only match--well, not only as Rock/'Taker and Cena/'Taker would be fine too--to follow up 'Taker's classics against DX.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got a nice package from Silvervision. Took advantage of their buy 2 get 1 free offer and got myself some soon to be OOP DVD's. Got SummerSlam 2002 because, you know, its fucking SummerSlam 2002 and it cost £4.99. Then got Cyber Sunday 07 because of Taker/Batista (and the other PPV's in the offer weren't appealing to me that much lol), and then the Best of Confidential, since I have a feeling once it goes OOP it'll be one of the rarer sets .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The History of the World Heavyweight Championship - Disc 1*

*2 out of 3 Falls*
Pat O'Connor (c) vs. Buddy Rogers - ***1/4
_Chicago, 1961_

Gene Kiniski (c) vs. Dory Funk Jr. - Clipped
_Florida, 2/11/1969_

Jack Brisco (c) vs. Terry Funk - Clipped
_Florida, 12/10/1975_

Harley Race (c) vs. Dusty Rhodes - Clipped
_Florida, 8/21/1979_

Ric Flair (c) vs. Magnum TA - **3/4
_AWA SuperClash '85_

Ric Flair (c) vs. Sting - ***3/4
_Great American Bash 1990_


*Overall Disc Score: 8/10*​
- Before the matches there's an hour long documentary on the belt's history. AWESOME. God it was so interesting hearing about the origins of the "World Heavyweight Champion" over 100 years ago and all the legends that have that had their time since then. Incredibly insightful. Really makes you appreciate the history.

- Who woulda thought a match from over 50 years ago would hold up in 2012? Not this guy, but I actually enjoyed it. O'Connor looks fucking awesome, he must've done 10 kip ups and just beat the hell outta the Nature Boy. You could tell Rogers was about to change the face of wrestling. Just a guy the crowd had never seen before.

- It's not a big problem or anything but all the matches that were clipped on here were all shown on the documentary, at least the finishes were. So why not scrap all 3 and give us a full match between any combination of the same guys? Random thought: Looks like the NWA Title changed hands in Florida a lot, ay?

- Flair/Magnum was a bit of a letdown. The first problem right off the bat (which has nothing to do with the match) was the audio. The commentary (which was ridiculous) was louder than anything, therefore muffling the sound of Flair's chops and not letting you get a good grasp and how much the crowd was behind Magum. It wasn't awful, just hurt the vieweing experience imo. The match itself was a little dull, far too many rest holds for my liking. The last 5 minutes were pretty exciting though as Flair did his usual unnecessary bladejob and Magnum got a few nearfalls. Decent stuff but nothing to go out of your way to see.

- Man I love Flair/Sting. Super hot crowd, awesome character dynamics from both guys, smart psychology, and a great out-of-nowhere finish. Having the faces hold off the Horsemen was a nice touch as well. Just an awesome moment.​


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Just watched the Monday Night War DVD and I must admit I got a little emotional actually. Being someone in my late teens when the Wars were going on, it was just a real real good moment to be a wrestling fan. I'd been through all the shit of the mid 90s when it really wasn't that good.

Even though I know that in our life time the wrestling industry will become popular again, it always does it goes in a cycle. I just don't think it will be AS enjoyable and as exciting as it was back in the late 90s, there was just something about it, an aura so to speak.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since the Taker series with Batista was being rated earlier here, what is everyone's favorite from the series of the Undertaker feuds that started at Wrestlemania and concluded with a HIAC match?

*vs Orton:*
Wrestlemania XXI: ****1/2
SummerSlam: ***1/2
No Mercy: ***1/2
Armageddon: ****1/4

*vs Batista:*
Wrestlemania 23: ****3/4
Backlash: ****
Smackdown: ***3/4
Cyber Sunday: N/A
Survivor Series: N/A

*Edge:*
Wrestlemania XXIV: ****
Backlash: ***1/4
Judgement Day: N/A
One Night Stand: ****1/2
SummerSlam: ****


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think the Edge HIAC is better than the Edge TLC, personally.

Overall, my favorite feud is probably the Taker/Batista feud. I did enjoy Foley's involvement/promo prior to the HIAC, though. Really helped Edge's character in that match, as he had been booked as a pussy heel prior to Foley's pep talk.

Do the N/A ratings mean you haven't watched the matches?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

vs Orton:
Wrestlemania XXI: ****1/4
SummerSlam: ****
SD: ****
No Mercy: ****
Armageddon: ****1/4

Taker/Orton was a great series and Taker might be Orton's best opponent much like Batista... though Christian gives Taker a run for his money. But Taker/Orton not having a match below **** is excellent and the feud itself was great as well. The WM21 match I'd say is the best of the feud. 

vs Batista:
Wrestlemania 23: ****1/2
Backlash: ****
Smackdown: ***1/2
Cyber Sunday: ****1/4
Survivor Series: ****1/4

Already gave my thoughts on Taker/Batista in my last post.

Edge:
Wrestlemania XXIV: ****1/4
Backlash: ****
Judgement Day: ***1/2
One Night Stand: ***
SummerSlam: ****3/4

Taker/Edge HIAC is a classic and an awesome feud ender. It had everything from fantastic storytelling, to psychology, to action, to even a sick spot with Edge spearing Undertaker through the cell knocking the side of the cell off. 3rd best cell match of all time (behind Taker/HBK and Taker/Brock) and one of the best feud enders of all time. The WM match was awesome as well and one of the best WM main events of all time as well (I'd only put it behind Rock/Austin WM17, Benoit/HBK/HHH and Taker/HBK off the top of my head). The BL match was great as well. JD was great too but not a fan of the ending, though I understand why it had to happen. What I don't understand is why Taker was stripped of the title in the first place if he wasn't going to be gone for another month and a half? The TLC match was fun, but has a ton of flaws. 

So all in all, while Taker/Edge has the best match of the three feuds, consistency wise Taker/Orton and Taker/Batista no doubt beat it. As for which one is the best... I'm giving it to Taker/Batista. The two just felt like at war with eachother every time they went to the ring, and they always produced the goods in 2007, even when Taker was injured. They had a classic at WM. A great LMS match. A phenomenal CS match that was nostalgic with seeing Taker and Austin in the same ring again, and an awesome HIAC match to close everything out.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

_*London and Kendrick(C) vs. Regal and Taylor vs. MNM vs. The Hardy Boyz - Four Way Ladder Match - WWE Tag Team Championship - Armageddon 2006 *_

What a match. Love the dragon suplex on London onto a ladder from Regal and the spot where Nitro knocks down Jeff from the ladder outside the ring onto the top rope. Also like how Regal and Taylor's inexperience in these types of matches factors in. Might actually be my favorite multi-team ladder/TLC match.

_***** - ****1/4*_


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sliced Bread from the top of the ladder was pretty ambitious, even if it was a little botched. 

Mercury got fucked up.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I think the Edge HIAC is better than the Edge TLC, personally.
> 
> Overall, my favorite feud is probably the Taker/Batista feud. I did enjoy Foley's involvement/promo prior to the HIAC, though. Really helped Edge's character in that match, as he had been booked as a pussy heel prior to Foley's pep talk.
> *
> Do the N/A ratings mean you haven't watched the matches?*


Yes. I didn't even know the JD 08 match existed until a few days ago and I've been meaning to check out the Survivor Series HIAC for quite a while.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Right on. Definitely check out the 2 Batista matches when you get a chance.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah the Armageddon 6 man is probably my favourite multi-man match. You have The Hardys and MNM as the experienced teams desperate for glory, London & Kendrick as the dominant champs but in a totally new setting and Regal/Taylor as the veteran team who want no part with the Ladders. Feels like they achieve a great balance between mixing some crowd pleasing high spots, but adding a story into the match and making every team feel like they want to win the match, which isn't always the case when you get guys spending an eternity setting up tables/ladders for an elaborate spot.

Mercury injury is horrific but perfectly encapsulates the chaotic environment that surrounded that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

vs Orton:
Wrestlemania XXI: ****1/4
SummerSlam: ****1/2
No Mercy: ****1/4
Armageddon: ****1/2 - BEST

vs Batista:
Wrestlemania 23: ****1/2 - BEST
Backlash: ****1/4
Smackdown: ***3/4
Cyber Sunday: ****1/4
Survivor Series: ****1/4

Edge:
Wrestlemania XXIV: ****1/2 - BEST
Backlash: ***1/2
Judgement Day: ***3/4
One Night Stand: ***
SummerSlam: ****


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

So based on *Starbuck's* favourite Cena matches post, I'll put up my favourite matches of my favourite wrestler, _CM Punk_.

*My Top 5 CM PUNK WWE Matches*

*1) CM Punk VS John Cena*
_Money In The Bank 2011_
*****
"Do I have everybody's attention now?" The last line delivered in the video promo before this epic. After unleashing one the best promos in years, CM Punk walks out of his hometown, Champion.

*2) CM Punk VS Jeff Hardy*
_SummerSlam 2009_
****1/2
"Jeff Hardy is your symbol, your idol, your man, as you are all weak. I will guide you, and I will be the light to conquer Jeff Hardy" CM Punk with the best heel work he has done in WWE. Putting on a great match to culminate a great feud.

*3) CM Punk VS Daniel Bryan*
_Over The Limit 2012_
****1/2
"We have known each other for 10 years, and I have always been better than you". This feud was entirely based on 1 fact. Both men came from the indies. Outside of that, zero buildup leaves it shy of a higher spot. It is merely the symbolism of 2 indie darlings/legends vying for the WWE title that adds so much to this. A technical great match too.

*4) CM Punk VS Chris Jericho*
_Extreme Rules 2012_
****1/4
"CM Punk, your father was an alcoholic, your sister a drug abuser, your mother....a combination of the two. You? You're a bastard, and I will break you and your Straight-Edge code" This match to me was far better than their Mania 28 match. The build was better and Punk was able to play his babyface role much better in the match.

*5) CM Punk VS John Cena*
_SummerSlam 2011_
****
"You gonna hit me, you gonna beat me up? Or do you gotta ask your wife permission first?" CM Punk returned too early. However this build was still good. CM Punk was trolling Triple H into oblivion, while Cena was building as Punk either "Be a one hit wonder, or be the man that is at the top" as to the win/lose scenario.

*5) CM Punk VS Alberto Del Rio VS The Miz*
_Tables Ladders Chairs 2011_
****
"What? It's your destiny to win right? And you, twilight, you think your gonna take me "out"?" CM Punk's first big title defense and leading into a decent PPV. I really liked this one, although I am probably in the minority. I am very found of it as it gave a very nice start to his reign.​

Opinions? Edit: Added numbers, note the last 2 are in equal standing so I had both here.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You listed six :side:

Don't think I've seen that TLC match, but the rest are all great choices.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Whoops, forgot to add, the last 2 are in equal standing for me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I know I'm late to the party but agreed with whoever said it a few pages back. Every WWE/Wrestling fan must attend at least 1 Wrestlemania in their lifetime. I've been to 25 through 28 this year and it's just the best experience you can have. I don't have tickets for 29 although I do want to go. I'm trying to pull the money together before the general sale in Nov or whenever it happens. Seriously, if you have the chance, go to a Mania. You won't regret it. I didn't even regret 27 lol. 

I'll have to watch some Punk matches before I can do a favorites list but Cena/Punk MITB and DB/Punk OTL are definitely in there. I'm working on my Orton list so I'll get that up soon for anybody who might be interested...no one lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My favorite Orton matches are definitely Orton/Foley Backlash and Orton/Benoit Summerslam. The Foley match is probably his best, and the Benoit match is just a personal choice. Crowd was great for Orton despite being a heel, and I thought the moment with Benoit after the match was well done to set up the face turn and Evolution feud.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Orton's best matches:

vs Benoit Summerslam 2004
vs Mysterio April 7th Smackdown 2006
vs Foley Backlash 2004
w/Flair & Batista vs Benoit/Edge/Jericho 6/14/04 RAW
vs Benoit 1/13/06 Smackdown

Cena Summerslam 2007 & NWO 2008, HHH No Mercy LMS 2007,Edge Raw after Vengeance & 4/30/07, HBK Survivor Series 2007, Taker Wrestlemania 21, Summerslam and Armageddon HIAC, Christian OTL 2011 are all very good-excellent as well.

A shame Orton is a shell of his former self, 2004-2006 Orton is a brilliant heel worker with an array of quality matches and performances. I personally find him to be an infinitely better opponent for Benoit than Angle ever was, Summerslam 2004, Raw the next night, matches in late 05/early 06 when filling in for Booker during the Benoit/Booker series were all excellent. I find them to be the modern day Angle/Austin in terms of regular good-great matches on TV and PPV. The Mysterio WHC Title match on Smackdown is one of the best matches in 2006, and definitely proof Orton/Mysterio should have been the title match instead of the abortion of a triple threat that we got.

Think the shoulder injuries and Viper character killed him tbh, he's just so lethargic and stale to me as a worker now that bar the Christian OTL match and Henry NOC match I really haven't cared for a lot of his matches since 2009 onwards. Punk match at Wrestlemania 27 is underrated and very good with a good Orton performance (though Punk was the better peformer) but aside from that I've not enjoyed his gimmick sreet fight/hardcore matches and the Christian series outside of the OTL match did nothing for me. Well actually the initial title switch on Smackdown was decent, but nowhere near OTL.


Side note, re: live events.

Been to one live event, was a Smackdown House Show at the MEN Arena in Manchester in 2003. I only remember the date because Benoit/A Train was the opener and we have Lesnar getting great heat for tapping out at Summerslam 2003. So most likely September/October time. My Dad actually swears down that Torrie Wilson had a slight wardrobe malfunction during a bikini/lingerie contest, something like her left tit supposedly popped out. Given how high we were he must have bastard good sight to have spotted it, though he was drooling like a dog at the time, so it wouldn't surprise me. Probably had binoculars now I think about it.

Also, I wore a Kurt Angle t-shirt to that event :jaydamn


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. I haven't been into Orton since 06. He has had a smattering a good matches here and there, but I feel if I've seen one Orton match for the past 6 years, I've seen them all.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

What irritates me more is that you see him in 04-06 and even to this day it still holds up. Guy had good offence, but was killing it with the facial expressions and heel mannerisms, one of the brightest young talents given how green he looked in 2002 and its a shame where he's ended up. I get that WWE matches are inshrined in formula, but Orton's feels often like the most cut and dry formula and it really makes it hard for me to watch a match of his these days. Everything from the way he bumps, to his punches etc just feels robotic and awkward and invokes little to no response from me. 

Quite sad really, back in 2006 the sky really appeared to be the limit for him as a worker.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree that his gimmick may have a lot to do with his robotic mannerisms and the style in which he works. The Viper gimmick just makes every match of his feel like a droning yawnfest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And despite his Viper gimmick, he still can put on some really great matches with certain guys. Just imagine if he was still working like 04-07 (imo he started getting dull around the Cena feud as a worker) Orton with the likes of Christian, Bryan, Punk etc.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yup, I think its really a testament to how good Henry was that I was able to enjoy their NOC match so much. Its also worth noting that Orton looked much better against Christian in the OTL when they worked a quicker pace and spent more time building to the finishing stretch and counters whilst doing some excellent callback spots to their Smackdown match. Seems when he does work a different match/opponent he can still put in a good performance, but seeing him generally bump and sell a beating just doesn't work in the same way Christian and Mysterio work as babyfaces. 

No wonder he wants to be a heel and not a babyface, he freakin' stinks at it. Just doesn't come across in any way like a sympathetic dude, everything about him from cocky youngster to tattooed psycho screams heel.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, don't get me wrong, he still has his moments with the right opponent, but I still feel like I've been watching the same match for the past 5-6 years every time he's in the ring. As SC said, his matches are way too formulaic and the mannerisms/facial expressions bore me to tears.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I know I'm late to the party but agreed with whoever said it a few pages back. Every WWE/Wrestling fan must attend at least 1 Wrestlemania in their lifetime. I've been to 25 through 28 this year and it's just the best experience you can have. I don't have tickets for 29 although I do want to go. I'm trying to pull the money together before the general sale in Nov or whenever it happens. Seriously, if you have the chance, go to a Mania. You won't regret it. I didn't even regret 27 lol.
> 
> I'll have to watch some Punk matches before I can do a favorites list but Cena/Punk MITB and DB/Punk OTL are definitely in there. I'm working on my Orton list so I'll get that up soon for anybody who might be interested...no one lol.


I did have a good opportunity at WM28 but it was too late when the thought even entered my mind. We had one week off school when WM28 and Raw in Miami took place. Would have been a bit expensive since I'm a barely paid student, though. But yeah, I'm hoping to make a huge change with my life in the upcoming years and live more independently with a well paid job and maybe then, I can attend a Wrestlemania which will no doubt be a dream come true.

And considering how familiar I am with Orton and Benoit's work, maybe I should put together a top 10 or something for both.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

To be honest I'm not entirely sure how Orton is still as popular as he is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RKO.

That's pretty much it. Fans go APESHIT for it. Similar to how they'd react to Austin Stunning everyone back in the day.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah but Austin was popular for more than the Stunner. Nowadays, that's about all he's good for, but back when he was active he was popular with fans for just about everything he did. I understand fans loving the RKO and reacting accordingly, but for one of the top stars to be popular solely for his finisher baffles me. I agree with what you're saying - I think the RKO is a big part of it - but it just doesn't make much sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doesn't make that much sense to me either lol, but that seems to be all I can think of. They love him for the RKO .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I disagree, I always find Orton fun to watch because he's so athletic. He made me a fan last year and he has a bunch of fun matches on the RAW 2010 set, but I still don't like his character. Orton fave 5:
5) vs Edge, Raw 2004
4) vs Rhodes, Smackdown 2011
3) vs Undie, Wrestlemania 21 
2) vs Foley, Backlash 2004
1) vs Christian, Summerslam 2011

I left out the OTL 2011 match because I only watched it the once and that was just me staring at the screen until Christian won (he didn't, boo.) The Summerslam match is there because I didn't watch it live and only got to watch it well after the heat had died down from that.

I suppose I should do an Edge fave five too:

5) vs Flair, RAW 2006
4) vs Ziggler, Royal Rumble 2011
3) vs Hardy, Unforgiven 2005
2) vs Eddie, Smackdown 2002
1) vs Undertaker, Summerslam 2008

and that's strictly singles. A lot of my favourite Edge matches also lie in his multi man stuff with the tags, fatal four ways, et cetera.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE Championship PPV Matches : 1994*

Yokozuna vs The Undertaker RR 94 : *** 1/4*
Yokozuna vs Lex Luger WM X : ***
Yokozuna vs Bret Hart WM X : *** 1/2*
Bret Hart vs Diesel KOTR 94 : ******
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart SS 94 : ***** 1/4*
Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund SS 94 : ***** 1/4*

Yoko-Taker was FUNFUNFUN. Two great big men (one of them just happening to be the greatest big man of all time) in the middle of an extremely fun slugfest for the title, just fantastic. All of the interference towards the end may rub some people the wrong way, but I felt that it was necessary to build Taker up as this unstoppable force (different from everybody else) , therefore there needs to be a little extra to take him down. Always got excited for Taker vs RANDOM BIG GUY , and this is no exception. Taker has done the MOST with the LEAST over the years.

Lex and Yoko... WHAT...THE...FUCK. These guys decide to do a complete 180 from their fast paced, good match at Summerslam the past year, and opt for one of the worst paces of all time. Seriously, who had the brilliant idea to give these guys 17 minutes on PPV ? Yet again we get another complete bullshit finish, after some REALLY slow and boring action with very uninspired psychology in it. Basically nerve holds for 17 minutes. YAY. The Hart-Yoko match was pretty good, and much like last years with the dynamic of Bret being able to somehow conquer this monster. I liked the back and forth action, and I loved the ending as Bret doesn't so much BEAT Yoko as he does outsmart him and let Yoko beat himself.

Bret-Diesel is always awesome, I don't know what's up with these two having elite chemistry, but this isn't even a top 2 match between them at KOTR... and it's still off the chain. Bret basically mows down Diesel and stays on him for a majority of the match, and coupling Bret's command with some pretty fucking great psychology, we get an instantly fantastic match, just another one in the career of Bret Hart.

Speaking of Bret, his string of awesome PPV matches continued at Summerslam 1994. I fucking LOVE the cage match between him and Owen, as these two don't fight each other as much as they just try to beat each other out the door. I like that dynamic because of the thought processes of both Bret AND Owen ; Bret wants to get out as fast as possible so he doesn't need to inflict any more damage to his family, while Owen wants to escape the cage ASAP because he still doesn't have the confidence that he can definitively beat Bret again. It's like two brothers on a set of jungle bars , I love it. Now, obviously it doesn't touch their WM X masterpiece at all (although Meltzer disagrees, giving this match ***** while giving the WM bout **** 3/4) , but I'd still put it in my top 5 cage matches of all time for sure.

Next up we get a dream match in alot of peoples minds, as Bret Hart takes on BOB BACKLUND of all people in a submission match. This match is fucking long as hell, but that is what makes it so beautiful in my eyes. They really built up the Crossface Chicken Wing to be the most devestating hold in the entire WWF, and to have Bret last in it for a grand total of almost SIX minutes without giving up really made Bret look like a badass, while it added to the whole Bret vs Owen story as well. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention how FUCKING AWESOME this match was. These two work at a great old-school pace here, reminiscent of an early 80s BOB match, exchanging hold after hold trying to get the advantage on the other man. The story was there, the psychology was great, it had an old school pace, and it had a great ending.... Better than the Owen cage match IMO.

BTW.... Anybody notice Maria Menounos at Summerslam wearing a BOB BACKLUND T-shirt ?


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

ECW Unreleased Vol 1: I have a few questions about this DVD/Blu Ray. 
I never used to watch ECW back in the 90's and only started watching ECW just before WWE purchased it. I enjoyed both One Night Stand show's that the WWE put on in 05 and 06, and that leads me to my first question. *Is this DVD/Blu Ray as Hardcore and Bloody as some of the matches that took place on One Night Stand?* and *How come New Jack is NOT on any match?*


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Orton 2011 is superbly underrated. Guy was on fire that year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Top 25 CM Punk WWE matches! 

1. Punk/Cena - MITB '11 - *****
2. Punk/Bryan - OTL '12 - ****3/4
3. Punk/Hardy - SD cage '09 - ****1/2
4. Punk/Hardy - Summserslam '09 - ****1/2
5. Punk/Jericho - WM 28 - ****1/2
6. Punk/Mysterio - OTL '10 - ****1/2
7. Punk/Morrison - SD '09 - ****1/4
8. Punk/Morrison - ECW '07 - ****1/4
9. Punk/Bryan - MITB '12 - ****1/4
10. Punk/Mysterio - Feb '10 - ****
11. Punk/Orton - WM 27 - ****
12. Punk/Mysterio - ER '10 - ****
13. Punk/Mysterio - CP '11 - ****
14. Punk/Cena - SS '11 - ****
15. Punk/Miz/Del Rio - TLC '11 - ****
16. Punk/Jericho - ER '12 - ****
17. Punk/Taker - SD '10 - ****
18. Punk/Bryan - SD '12 - ***3/4
19. Punk/Ziggler - Raw Nov '11 - ***3/4
20. Punk/Umaga - JD '09 - ***3/4
21. Punk/Mysterio - WM 26 - ***3/4
22. Punk/Del Rio - SSeries '11 - ***3/4
23. Punk/Mysterio - Armageddon '08 - ***3/4
24. Punk/Hardy - NOC '09 - ***3/4
25. Punk/Burke - JD '07 - ***1/2

Notes

- PUNK/MYSTERIO = EPIC

- Punk/Taker could have been so awesome but other than the match after their feud it was disappointing.

- Punk/Benjamin in '08 and Punk/Christian in '10 or '11 could have been awesome.

- Realized I left Punk/Orton from Extreme Rules off. Have it at ***3/4 so it'd go around that area. :side:

- Didn't include his MITB matches but the two he won were pretty good with WM 24 being my favorite one of all time. His work in the 3 ECs he did was good too. Just didn't do any multiman matches other than the TLC.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge's top 5 (not counting tag matches):
****3/4
1) vs. Undertaker SS08
****1/4
2) vs. Cena BL09
3) vs. Matt Hardy Unforgiven 05
4) vs. Undertaker WM24
5) vs. RVD Vengeance 06

Edge has a ton of other matches at ****1/4, a ton at ****, and a heap just below that (and that's not including his tag matches which make up another huge portion of matches at those ratings). While Edge has a reputation as a "gimmick" worker, he's put on plenty of excellent non-gimmick singles matches. He had a very good series with Batista in 07 and an awesome match with him in 08. In 2002 he was on fire all year whether in normal singles matches or not. His match against Ziggler at RR, while I suppose was "gimmick" to some degree due to not being allowed to use a spear (which he used anyway), I'd still classify as a normal match and Edge pulled out some great old stuff for the match. Not to mention 2 of his top 5 are normal matches. And talking about gimmick matches, his cage match against Matt is the best cage match I've ever seen in WWE imo, and is probably Matt's best singles match ever in WWE as well. 

As for Orton:
****1/2
1) vs. Christian OTL11
2) vs. Christian SS11
****1/4
3) vs. Undertaker WM21
4) vs. Foley BL04
5) vs. Cena SS07

And like Edge, there are several more matches at ****1/4, a ton at ****, and many just below that. Last year was Orton's best year in WWE in terms of in ring work. He was wrestling good-great matches weekly, had two classics that year with Christian (and his two best matches of his career imo), and overall he just seemed to find his groove as "the viper". But man, I should've probably done a top 10. Feels odd leaving out his matches with Taker at Armageddon, HHH at NM (LMS), Cena at NWO08 and Edge on Raw in 2004, 2007, and I'm one of the few that adored the Vengeance 04 match as well (which you can also chalk up both 2004 matches as great non-gimmick Edge matches I think... unless I'm not remembering them as well as I'd hope  ).


And CM punk:

*****
1) vs. Bryan OTL 2012 
****1/2
2) vs. Cena MITB 2011
3) vs. Jericho WM28
****1/4
4) vs. Cena SS2011
5) vs. Morrison ECW 2007 (Loved this match when it happened. Need to re-watch. Made me watch ECW for a few weeks afterwards as I hadn't really watched ECW for well over a year)

Punk has had some excellent matches. Against Mysterio, against Jericho, against Cena (outside of the two above), against Orton, against Jeff Hardy, and many many more. Hell, he even had an awesome **** match with Taker I forgot until I read Clique's list on SD, which was ironically enough far better than any of their PPV matches. And since his title reign began, having great matches almost weekly, and even giving Henry arguably his best match ever on Raw after WM28. Punk's been on a roll and been one of the most consistent WWE Champions I've seen. As far as 9 month plus reigns go, I'm not sure of anyone who beats him. Of course, taking just the best 3 months of his reign (imo WM28-NWO11), I don't think there's anyone I've watched that's had a more consistent three month reign than Punk except maybe HHH's first reign in 2000, and even then it's arguable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top Edge (non tag team):

1. Vs Undertaker WM ****1/2
2. Vs Hardy UF ****
3. Vs Undertaker JD (or BL, maybe I'm confusing which one I prefer over the other lol) - ****
4. Vs HHH Vs Cena BL ***3/4
5. Vs Undertaker Vs Batista Armageddon ***3/4

Honestly not that big a fan of Edge outside of his tag work with Christian and Mysterio. Would literally only have those 3 matches at **** and above for him. Any other matches at that rating are tags. He was still good, sometimes great, but I think he's immensely overrated at times (mostly by WWE) as a singles wrestler.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Not a fan of Edge/Taker HIAC, Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, I like it, but I'd put those 5 matches ahead of it still. Would probably be #6 on that list, way lower if I included tags.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Obis said:


> And CM punk:
> 
> *****
> 1) vs. Bryan OTL 2012
> ...


No love for Punk VS Hardy SS09?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Orton/Edge over the IC title in 2004 were some great matches. Vengeance '04 and the rematch on Raw were both ****+ imo.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Wasn't the Punk/Cena MITB the one where either McMahon or Laurinitis came out and totally ruined the ending? Yes, great match, but probably one of the more disappointing endings in recent memory. awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been far too long since I've watched the Vengeance match to really place it on my list. Had it at ****1/4 many years ago though. Who knows if it'll hold up. He also has a great match on SD against Benoit (his last TV match I think?) in 07 that I know Clique loves.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Wasn't the Punk/Cena MITB the one where either McMahon or Laurinitis came out and totally ruined the ending? Yes, great match, but probably one of the more disappointing endings in recent memory. awful.




It was a perfect play on the Montreal Screwjob, with Cena not allowing it because unlike '97 Michaels, it doesn't suit his character to win in that fashion.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MITB finish was great. Worked perfectly with Cena's character preventing the screwjob, and allows Punk to take advantage and pick up the big win.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Orton had a great year in 2011. Must look back over his Christian feud. Granted, I do not really like Orton that much at all and I am a Christian fan, that feud had awesome matches. I also liked his work with Barrett.



KidCharlamagne said:


> Wasn't the Punk/Cena MITB the one where either McMahon or Laurinitis came out and totally ruined the ending? Yes, great match, but probably one of the more disappointing endings in recent memory. awful.


I thought it was great. It was held within the storyline and a "WTF IS GUNNA HAPPEN" feeling. 

The disappointing ending was at SummerSlam 2011, that is when CM Punk should have had a clean win.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk should also have KEPT the belt at SS. Punk was white fucking hot at the time, the angle was great... and the fucked it up big style by having Alberto Del No Heat win the belt and have a shitty reign while Punk jobs to HHH for absolutely no fucking reason, then has a tag match with 2 glorified mid-carders (teaming up with the guy that buried him) before getting the title back. GREAT JOB VINCE!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Edge top 5:

1. vs Cena (Unforgiven 06) - ****3/4
2. vs Cena vs HBK vs Orton (Backlash 07) - ****1/2
3. vs Undertaker (One Night Stand 08) - ****1/2
4. vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 22) - ****1/4
5. vs Undertaker (SummerSlam 08) - ****

Honorable mention: vs Chris Benoit on Raw 05 the night after WM21.

I'm not familiar enough, so I don't really have much to work with on this list. But since we're on the tip of doing top lists for our favorites, I'll do a top 10 for Chris Benoit as he's my favorite.

1. vs Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 03) - *****
2. vs HHH vs HBK (Wrestlemania XX) - *****
3. vs The Rock (Fully Loaded 00) - ****3/4
4. vs Chris Jericho (Royal Rumble 01) - ****3/4
5. vs Stone Cold (Smackdown 01) - ****3/4
6. vs HHH vs HBK (Backlash 04) - ****1/2
7. vs Kurt Angle (Backlash 01) - ****1/2
8. vs Randy Orton (SummerSlam 04) - ****1/2
9. vs Randy Orton (Smackdown 27/01/06) - ****1/4
10. vs Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 02) - ****1/4

Honorable mentions: vs Jericho (SummerSlam 00), vs Eddie Guerrero (Vengeance 03), vs Kane vs The Rock vs Undertaker (Unforgiven 00), vs The Rock (numerous TV matches on 00 and 02), vs RVD (SummerSlam 02) and vs Angle (most of all, WM17).

And that excludes tag matches such as Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/HHH, Benoit/Angle vs Mysterio/Edge and TLC III. Also some highly recommended matches that I still need to watch such as the one with Angle at Unforgiven 02 and so on. Oh and it's only WWE matches, so ones such as the one with Bret Hart at the Owen tribute show (****1/2) are excluded.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Punk should also have KEPT the belt at SS. Punk was white fucking hot at the time, the angle was great... and the fucked it up big style by having Alberto Del No Heat win the belt and have a shitty reign while Punk jobs to HHH for absolutely no fucking reason, then has a tag match with 2 glorified mid-carders (teaming up with the guy that buried him) before getting the title back. GREAT JOB VINCE!


Del Rio winning the belt at Summerslam really left a bad taste in my mouth and was a bad way to end what was a pretty good show overall. Like you say Punk was mega popular at the time and WWE killed his momentum somewhat when Del Rio won.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Edge's top 5 (strictly singles)*

1. vs Undertaker WM XXIV : ***** 1/2*
2. vs Undertaker SS 08 : ***** 1/2*
3. vs Matt Hardy UNF 05 : ***** 1/4*
4. vs John Cena UNF 06 : ***** 1/4*
5. vs Chris Benoit BL 05 : ******

Not very big on Edge as a singles competitor at ALL. When it comes to strictly singles matches , I can think about 10 or so ****+ singles matches from him, not great for who is supposed to be an all time great IMO. If we were going to put multi-man matches into the equation, the NM 02 tag would be number 1 , and MITB 1 would be number four (because it's the greatest multi-man ladder match of all time  ) .

*CM Punk Top 5 WWE (strictly singles)*

1. vs John Cena MITB 11 : *******
2. vs Daniel Bryan OTL 11 : ***** 3/4*
3. vs John Cena SS 11 : ***** 1/2*
4. vs Chris Jericho WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
5. vs Chris Jericho ER 12 : ***** 1/4*

Punk has been in the WWE for only 6 years now, but by my estimations , I'm willing to bet that he has had more **** matches in that time period than anybody else in the WWE (yes , more than Shawn, Hunter, and Taker ) . I love a TON of his stuff and he's always been one of my all time favourites. In my mind, if he keeps at this pace for the next 5 years, it's time to start talking about him as a top 5 all time WWE superstar. The only thing that could potentially hold Punk back is injury IMO , as we have so many potential matchups for him in the future (Rock, Brock, Trips, Cena, Bryan, Taker, etc) that could get him **** match after **** match. If he wrestles Brock or Taker at WM anytime soon, we could have a ***** match on our hands for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I dunno, 6 years includes 06, 07 and 08 where I'd say Undertaker had more ****+ matches in those 3 years than Punk has in 6. Then we have 09-12 WM's.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just managed to sell my Best of Nitro DVD for $4 more than I bought it for. :lmao

Looking at those WM ticket price packs right now and I'm fucking salivating. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Taker's last 6 Manias alone would rival Punk's best 6 matches, if not surpass them.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Obis said:


> Edge's top 5 (not counting tag matches):
> ****3/4
> 1) vs. Undertaker SS08
> ****1/4
> ...


I completely forgot about that one! That would actually make my top five over the Flair TLC match, as good as that was. And how come @ the RVD match? I liked it enough, but not enough to put it in my top five or ten.

If we're including multi man stuff, a whole bunch of stuff from 01/02 Smackdown would would fill the top five and ten for my favourite Edge matches. The No Mercy tag and the Smackdown rematch (which I preferred to the first, actually), that elimination F4W on Smackdown, TLC III and so on. Also the triple threats and fatal four ways with HHH/Cena/Orton are often praised but I haven't seen them yet.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Every time I watch Edge/Cena from Backlash I feel bad for that fan that gets hit by Edge when Cena does the AA into the crowd. The guy stays down for a while. :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Loved the Edge/RVD match, plain and simple. Both men worked fantastically in that match and the only thing I didn't really like was the ending (mainly due to the big Edge mark in me wanting Edge to win and feeling that was his time to take the WWE Title). It's the type of match that I have a secret love for. Two men going out there and giving there all for the top prize in the business with no strings attached. No personal animosity attached (or not much anyway). Just a desire to be WWE Champion. It's why I also love Benoit/Angle RR and Punk/Bryan OTL a lot. Now I don't put the Edge/RVD match anywhere near those two, but the same idea applies for why I'm such a huge fan of it. Granted, maybe I jumped the gun putting it at my top 5 as I have a ton of other matches at the same rating I could've put up in that spot had I given them more consideration, but it still would remain at the same rating and probably in the top 10, top 15 no doubt.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> Every time I watch Edge/Cena from Backlash I feel bad for that fan that gets hit by Edge when Cena does the AA into the crowd. The guy stays down for a while. :lmao


OH MY GOD :lmao :lmao

Thank you for reminding me of that spot. My initial thought when watching that was 'wow isn't it kind of a waste to put 20 plants at ringside just so they can pull that off?' What on earth were they thinking??


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

I seriously thought that AA into the crowd was going to be the end. I love that match; I had zero expectations going into it because of how awful that feud had been (Big Show & Vickie were the main culprits though tbf) and it blew me away. Topped off such an excellent PPV.








"Alright everybody, make your angry pose"










:cena2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

They should've had Santino cheesing in the background with the COBRA to offset all the anger. :side:

Cena is too happy for it. :/


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

haribo said:


> I seriously thought that AA into the crowd was going to be the end. I love that match; I had zero expectations going into it because of how awful that feud had been (Big Show & Vickie were the main culprits though tbf) and it blew me away. Topped off such an excellent PPV.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lmao Oh Cena


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

THAT'S PROOF THAT CENA CAN'T BE ANGRY!

Loses against Rock? "LOL IM HAPPY HE WON I WANTZ TO CONGRATULATE HIM!"

Gets destroyed by Lesnar? "LOL IM OK I WON JUST ARM FEELS LIKE IT WAS TORN OFF BUT I'M SMILING!"

Hell, seriously though after that Lesnar/Cena brawl and Cena's busted up, I swear Cena smiled and said "Mom, how do I look?"

CENA CAN NO MAKE ANGRY FACE!


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Obis said:


> THAT'S PROOF THAT CENA CAN'T BE ANGRY!
> 
> Loses against Rock? "LOL IM HAPPY HE WON I WANTZ TO CONGRATULATE HIM!"
> 
> ...


Yes he can! He just looks constipated when he does.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Yes he can! He just looks constipated when he does.


:lmao

I am proven wrong, but I'm reminded of the worst bit of acting the WWE has since :hhh


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

That Summerslam cover is comedy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ROFL, that's one of the goofiest covers I've ever seen. Cena should have brought with him that constipated face so it would have been well put together.










:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Justin Gabriel vs Cody Rhodes - Superstars 8/23/12

Really solid match here with Rhodes playing DAT OLD SCHOOL HEEL to perfection. Striker does an awesome job putting over literally everything Rhodes does, from attacking the joints, to pointing out Gabriel's surgically repaired shoulder which Rhodes spends the majority of the match working over. SHORT ARM SCISSORS in this match too, you don't see that every day. Gabriel's knew formula in the ring is awesome too. Much more striking and mat wrestling based but with a good amount of high flying added. Must be Tyson Kidd helping him. Ending was pretty creative too with Rhodes reversing an inverted DDT into the Crossrhodes. - ***1/4

Both these guys should be wrestling on TV and Striker should be commentating. Same goes for Stanford.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

He also did a good job of putting over Mcintyre on Superstars. Talking about Mcintyre has an injury so now understands the anatomy more and can use that to his advantage during matches. Striker's brilliant.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

andersonasshole900 said:


> He also did a good job of putting over Mcintyre on Superstars. Talking about Mcintyre has an injury so now understands the anatomy more and can use that to his advantage during matches. Striker's brilliant.


He was even explaining to the viewers at home exactly where the injury was to his hand and was pretty much mapping it out. He adds so much to a match that I doubt the average viewer notices.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

KingCal said:


> MITB finish was great. Worked perfectly with Cena's character preventing the screwjob, and allows Punk to take advantage and pick up the big win.


Yea, except Undertaker and Punk already played off the screw job. Can't you do something a bit more fresh for CM Punk? I guess I'm just sick of the WWE banking on their past. Stale. I felt the ending sucked the air out of the match, for me, and was pretty anti-climatic. For a BIG MATCH atmosphere, that shouldn't happen. It would never happen at a Wrestlemania (Sans Austins heel turn, which was classic).

And, yes, I also agree with one of the posters complaining about the SS booking. Having Del Rio cash in on Punk after the SS match?! Completely robbing the company of the best momentum on probably the best feud they've had in a number of years. Pulled the plug. 

I was kind of disappointed with the booking, giving the quality Punk and Cena had in the ring. Both matches to me had bummer endings.

But, hey, that's just my 2 cents.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> ROFL, that's one of the goofiest covers I've ever seen. Cena should have brought with him that constipated face so it would have been well put together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think even JR could sell that anger.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Thoughts on the *Jeff Hardy/Undertaker ladder match from Raw in 2002*? I just watched it since I first saw it when it aired on TV over here and it holds up and then some. Easily Jeff Hardy's best performance and possibly best match. He gets some great sympathy from the crowd by flopping around El Generico style. The spots aren't all that extreme when compared to other gimmick matches at the time, but it's the well executed yet simple and cliche narrative is where the match really shines. Take that and add all the post-match stuff and you are looking at a *****1/4* rating.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

****. Jeff's second best singles match ever behind his match with HHH at NM 08 imo. But the Taker/Jeff ladder match was the first big put over Jeff got, especially after the match where Taker gave Jeff props. Of course, he left/was fired/whatever the fuck happened and didn't get back on track until 2008 when he faced Orton and beat HHH.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got Hardy/Taker at ****1/4 as well. The emotion in that match is amazing and it really put Jeff over.

MAKE YOURSELF FAMOUS, KID!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I will agree that it is one of the biggest sleeper hits in SummerSlam and early 90s WWF history. I thought it was a fantastic match with the two larger-than-life characters of Macho Man and The Warrior battling once again for the top prize in the industry. It obviously is not as dramatic as their classic at WrestleMania VII with the stakes higher than ever before with their careers on the line but you could feel the enormity of this main event championship match. Savage's selling of his injury was stellar as was he's guidance of Warrior to another one of the best matches of his career. Along with Rick Rude or the "Ultimate Challenge" with Hogan, Savage probably brought out the best in Warrior in the ring. Everyone should watch this great match and give some of the SummerSlam 92 glory to it because Savage and Warrior deserve it for their efforts here.


Still love this match, one of my faves from the New Gen era, i know the ending with Flair/Perfect annoys some people but it was all part of the whole main story so i can forgive them for that, would have of course preffered a clean finish,

Shame Warrior got the boot afterwards so we didn't have the revenge storyline with Hennig/Flair.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Yea, except Undertaker and Punk already played off the screw job. Can't you do something a bit more fresh for CM Punk? I guess I'm just sick of the WWE banking on their past. Stale. I felt the ending sucked the air out of the match, for me, and was pretty anti-climatic. For a BIG MATCH atmosphere, that shouldn't happen. It would never happen at a Wrestlemania (Sans Austins heel turn, which was classic).
> 
> And, yes, I also agree with one of the posters complaining about the SS booking. Having Del Rio cash in on Punk after the SS match?! Completely robbing the company of the best momentum on probably the best feud they've had in a number of years. Pulled the plug.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Undertaker and Punk played off the screwjob, but at least they did it in a different way completely (actually screwing Undertaker, Cena prevented Punk from getting screwed) in the Punk/Cena match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Jim Ross was fucking epic in the Taker/Hardy ladder match. I dare to imagine what it would have been like if Lawler/Cole 2011 called it


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Jim Ross was fucking epic in the Taker/Hardy ladder match. I dare to imagine what it would have been like if Lawler/Cole 2011 called it


Cole: VINTAGE UNDERTAKER
Cole: VINTAGE JEFF HARDY
Cole: VINTAGE MIZ
Lawler: Undertaker is cheating using the ladder as a weapon!
Lawler: C'mon Jeff! USE THE LADDER~!
Cole: Look at this folks, Hardy, Undertaker, Ladder and MIZ MIZ MIZ trending on twitter!
Lawler: TOUT TOUT TOUT
Cole: Khloe Kardashian says Jeff Hardy is cute
Lawler: Well you know what I think about Khloe Kardashian...she's a very handsome woman. *Lawler sighs and he reminisces to the days before he was tranquilized before each Raw and fit into an Ed Hardy t-shirt. The days when his mind was filled with PUPPIES*
Cole: IS THAT MIZ IN THE RING?
Mike Tenay: IS THAT THE MOZ IN THE IMPACT ZONE?

Really paints a picture of the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Hardy ladder match is great. Amazing to think it was 'Taker's FIRST ever ladder match too! Probably my favourite Jeff match, and likely his second best singles match (HHH from whenever in 08 being his best, not as high on the Punk matches as most).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Undertaker/Hardy ladder match is great. Amazing to think it was 'Taker's FIRST ever ladder match too! Probably my favourite Jeff match, and likely his second best singles match (HHH from whenever in 08 being his best, not as high on the Punk matches as most).


I think Taker has only been in two ladder matches if I recall. Only ones I can think of are Taker/Hardy and Taker/Edge. Am I missing any?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> I think Taker has only been in two ladder matches if I recall. Only ones I can think of are Taker/Hardy and Taker/Edge. Am I missing any?


Pretty sure that's it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I still cringe when I see the bump he takes at the end of ONS '08.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still amazes me when I see him taking that bump. As with the rest of the match, watching live I predicted every single spot they did... I just had no idea Undertaker would be the one to take that bump at the end!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao yeah, I remember a bunch of parts in that match where it was really obvious what they were setting up for. But those Hawkins and Ryder bumps are pretty nasty too.

I agree with you though, I thought for sure it was gonna be Edge taking that bump. Not Undertaker at the tender age of 43.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stuck in SummerSlam 2002 last night since it showed up yesterday. Watched Hogan Vs Lesnar which is an extra on the disc. Not the greatest match, but a ton of fun for sure. Crowd are insane for Hogan. Love how they built up Hogan as being almost the ultimate challenge for Lesnar at this point in his career. Heyman on the outside yelling to Brock "He's different! He's Hulk Hogan, he's DIFFERENT!" while Lesnar is playing with Hulk like he did with everyone else at the time, being too inexperienced to truly understand who he's in the ring with. Hogan did his usual schtick; no selling stuff but not anything major that pissed you off, just in the way that is part of his gimmick. He even has Brock reeling and even begging him off, the first time we'd seen this kind of thing from Lesnar. And then Bock got it. He understood who he was in the ring with. It started with the ledgrop, and once Brock kicked out, he evolved. He went after Hulk like a man possessed. No more messing about. F-5. Busted Hogan wide open. And then locked in the bear hug and beat Hogan in perhaps THE most decisive way that Hogan has ever been beaten in. Perfect build up match to SS imo. Heyman was proclaiming Lesnar to be the next big thing. He was young, athletic, powerful. He had EVERYTHING but experience, but week after week we'd see him get better and better, and in this match its like he went from a rookie to a veteran; that's how much he learnt. He wasn't in the ring with your average guy. No more Hardy Boys (just popular team at the time). No Rikishi. No Booker T. No RVD. He was in the ring with one of THE stars. One of THE legends. He went into the match inexperienced. He made mistakes. Then he LEARNT. He adapted. He evolved. He grew. And he took OUT Hulk Hogan, and was finally ready for The Rock and the WWE Title at SummerSlam. Great stuff here, telling a pretty magnificent story imo. And Hogan taking a fucking POWERBOMB (albeit out of the corner, but all that did was allow Hogan to not have to try and flip himself up onto Brock's shoulders lol)? Awesome lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Don't think I've ever seen that match other than clips of the bearhug. Might give it a look today.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Dammit, I really have to watch this Hardy/Taker ladder match as soon as possible. Sounds like a real classic.

And speaking of guessing spots before they happened, table spot at HHH/HBK 3SOH match, anybody? Flair was randomly outside the cage, setting up the tables, then when the ladder part happened, it was obvious that someone was going through those tables. Funny how they happen in about every single TLC match.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

That problem ruins a lot of TLC/Ladder match. Most notably the Edge/Undertaker TLC from '08. I really find it hard to sit through that match because of how obviously they are setting up for spots. It really sucks you out of the fantasy, you know?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After finally giving in to *Segunda*, I have downloaded and watched the much loved *McIntyre/Masters Superstars match from last year* and I am glad I did so. It was considered one of the best TV matches of last year and I can see why. You get a vintage McIntyre performance with him just being a great heel and tearing away at Masters' leg in creative and vicious ways. Masters is just as good, if not better than McIntyre here. He sells the damage beautifully as seen in that awesome Oklahoma slam attempt. There is a few awkward set-ups and sequences but it's really no deal breaker. Those not sold on McIntyre or Masters yet, should really check this out. ****3/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Dammit, I really have to watch this Hardy/Taker ladder match as soon as possible. Sounds like a real classic.
> 
> And speaking of guessing spots before they happened, table spot at HHH/HBK 3SOH match, anybody? Flair was randomly outside the cage, setting up the tables, then when the ladder part happened, it was obvious that someone was going through those tables. Funny how they happen in about every single TLC match.


Don't remember a damn thing about that HHH/HBK match. I've spent a few years doing my best to forget every single thing about it .

Cactus, thoughts on Swagger/Christian ECW 24/02/2009?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brye said:


> Cole: VINTAGE UNDERTAKER
> Cole: VINTAGE JEFF HARDY
> Cole: VINTAGE MIZ
> Lawler: Undertaker is cheating using the ladder as a weapon!
> ...




:lol :lol :lol Had me dying laughing first thing in the morning.


*WWE Championship PPV Matches : 1995*

Diesel vs Bret Hart RR 95 : ***** 1/4*
Diesel vs Shawn Michaels WM XI : *****
Diesel vs Sid IYH 1 : *** 3/4*
Diesel vs Sid IYH 2 : *** 3/4*
Diesel/Shawn Michaels vs Yokozuna/British Bulldog IYH 3 : *** 3/4*
Diesel vs Mabel SS 95 : ** 3/4*
Diesel vs The British Bulldog IYH 4 : ****
Diesel vs Bret Hart SS 95 : ***** 3/4*
Bret Hart vs The British Bulldog IYH : ***** 1/2*


Diesel-Bret II on PPV upped the first match by a considerable margin. This time, Bret wastes no time mounting Diesel and maintaining his offense throughout the match, working Diesel's knee to perfection. Some people complain about Diesel's selling job in this match, but I think he does a brilliant job of limping around and making it look like he's in serious trouble. The Hart suicide dive outside the ring to maintain offense is awesome, and I like how they really sell the face-vs-face aspect of the match by not letting either man lose by DQ. Fantastic match here and Kevin Nash's second best match of all time.

HBK-Diesel from the 11th Wrestlemania is a tough one to grade. I thought they had a brilliant opening sequence, but after that I thought the match fizzled down a bit too slow before it kicks back up again a notch. There were some pretty great moments in this one , but for some reason this just didn't do it for me. It was a good match don't get me wrong, just not Wrestlemania in 1995 WWE Championship quality, when the belt was becoming more about who could put on the best show. Didn't feel like a big deal whatsoever, and Shawn kind of felt like an afterthought. I'm glad I SAW it, because there were some great moments, but I'm not sure on this one.

The two Diesel-Sid matches are just FUN. The first one works at a little slower pace, but it's still a smart power battle between two of the most popular big men (sans Taker) at the time. They keep the matches between the two at a little over 10 minutes, so there aren't alot of time for rest holds or anything, just straight up action. The Lumberjack match at the second IYH works at a much faster pace, is shorter, and is the better of the two by a small margin. I never expected these guys to put on such good matches, and for the main event of an IYH PPV, they felt appropriate. A completely different style than say Shawn-Bret, but entertaining nonetheless. The IYH 3 tag match with Shawn is a pretty good match as well with some really fun spots, it's just overshadowed by the obvious politics that were behind it. I stop to think about how good this match could have been, had it been Bulldog-Owen teaming up instead of Yoko-Bulldog. The ending makes absolutely NO SENSE, but I feel it's okay I suppose.

Now on to why people look at Diesel's title reign as a workrate failure (as well as a commercial failure on top of that) : his matches against Mabel and Bulldog. The SS match with Mabel I thought was BAD but entertaining... Just something about the ridiculousness of Viscera facing off against Kevin Nash in a 9 minute match at Summerslam really caught me by surprise. It's only short so the pace is actually pretty good, but that's why this match bombed ; This was the main event of SUMMERSLAM, so a kind of match like this was not acceptable (PS: This followed what I believe the greatest ladder match of all time, Shawn-Razor II). The Bulldog match on the other hand has NO excuses. These two have an absolutely terrible clash of styles, and it really shows here as this match consists of 17 minutes working on Diesel's legs. I actually sat down and counted how many moves Nash got in this one... SIX..In a 17 minute match and you're the reigning champ, BIGGER than your opponent, it's unacceptable. It's not technically BAD or anything, but I don't like it very much at all that's for sure.

We move on from that to what I believe to my the MOTY in 1995 and the best match in the career of Kevin Nash/Diesel , Bret Hart vs Diesel III from the Survivor Series. This match just totally exceeded my expectations , reaching levels of intensity and strict psychology that is even heavy for a BRET match. My god, the way Bret ties up Diesel with the mic cord and just works the leg is so vicious and intense from Bret, showing the desire that he will need in order to become the world champion. This is Nash's best performance ever, with some of the most epic selling that I have ever seen out of ANY worker, let alone Kevin Nash. This is a top 50 WWF/WWE match for sure in my mind, and it gets better with every single watch.

Bulldog-Bret II on PPV gets extremely rave reviews, and I've seen a couple of *****'s thrown it's way (including mr. Bret Mix AKA Austin101). I personally wouldn't go THAT high as it's not a perfect match or anything, but it's a fantasticly worked contest, and I'll go out on a limb and say that although the SS 92 match is BETTER per se, this is the superior worked match between the two. While Summerslam 92 was the biggest carry job every with one of the best atmosphere's ever, this match features crisp, solid in ring work from not one, but BOTH competitors. I thought the blood showed a shade of intensity that would be to come in the not so distant future, and I thought they did a really great job of telling a story that these two aren't the same that they were 3 years ago. Between this and SS 92, it's hard to pick a clear cut better match as they are 2 entirely different contests, but the SS 92 match gets the nod in my mind.

Next, we move on to DA YEAR OF HBK , and one of, if not THE greatest title reigns of all time (In-ring wise  ) .


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Randy Orton v Sheamus Hell in a Cell 2010* ☆☆☆☆

This was a great back and forth battle between these two. Definately up there with some of my favorite HIAC , especially the more recent ones.
It had a real fast pace to it , which I felt added to a real chaotic feel of being inside the cell. Even the commentary was good , especially at the start building up the cell without it being used really added to the feel of this match. Finish was a bit rushed I felt and Orton kicking out of two broghe kicks seemed to hurt Sheamus's credibility a tad in my view.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Don't remember a damn thing about that HHH/HBK match. I've spent a few years doing my best to forget every single thing about it .


Ha, lol. It's not _that_ bad, c'mon!

*Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy - Raw 2002 Ladder Match*
I thought it was a bit too short but made good use of the amount of time it was given. Jeff Hardy works great as the underdog with the crowd heavily behind him and Undertaker does some good heel job when he gets up from a chair-shot and hits Jeff with two of them as if he's saying "Not today, asshole!" when Jeff is climbing. JR does an amazing job as usual selling the match and Undertaker's heel persona as if he's torturing "the poor kid". The Chokeslam on the ladder could have looked better but it's okay for what it was. Then post-match, JR is even funnier to listen to. "SOMEBODY CUT THE DAMN MIC OFF! THIS IS ENOUGH!" as Taker suddenly gives his props to Jeff.

Rating: ****3/4*

I'm finished soon with Survivor Series 2003, so that is coming later today.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Ha, lol. It's not _that_ bad, c'mon!


It really is . Personally I find the majority of their matches to be pretty crappy, but that one is utter shit with zero redeeming qualities .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, it's funny how little chemistry HHH and HBK have, considering they're both amazing workers and it was always heel HHH (him at his best) vs face HBK. RR 04 sucks, 3SoH sucked, Taboo Tuesday sucked, most think HIAC sucked (although I really enjoy it).

Really their only good matches were SS 02, Raw December 03, and anything involving Benoit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think the 3SOH match is fun 

Hunter actually has a very interesting quote about that match on his DVD , he describes it as, AND I QUOTE "One of my favourites , by the end of the match me and Shawn were just laying there, we didn't even need to hit each other anymore because there was just so much pure emotion in the ring at that time... Definitely one of my favourites for sure"

AHHHHHHH the joys of living life through HHH tinted glasses.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The problem is they tried to make every one of their matches feel so epic (in reality, the matchup speaks for itself) and it just backfired. It's one of those "more is less" instances. They tried too hard.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I am going to watch Raw 03 very soon, but I have yet to see Taboo Tuesday and Bad Blood. For the rest... SS 02 is classic, Armageddon 02 is above average, RR 04 is decent and their multi-men matches involving Benoit and Cena have been great.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taboo Tuesday probably would've been great had HBK's knee not legitimately been blown out the Raw prior.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only matches I think are good between them are Raw 03 and one from Raw 06 (not long before HHH turned face and they became DX again I believe).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Raw December 03 in San Antonio and the Taboo Tuesday match are the only ones I enjoy. Taboo Tuesday with HBK being legit hurt adds to the match since they work a basic match around HHH being a methodical dick working the leg and HBK working from the bottom. Feels like a very simple structured match without trying to make the match 'THE EPIC MATCH TO END ALL EPICS'. I just never found myself invested in their feud and how by the end it was just a painful attempt like Cena/Orton to present something the audience ought to be salivating over...when it had just dragged and played out every stipulation and angle they possibly could.

San Antonio Raw 2003 and TT are both relatively basic matches that never feel like they're trying to be bigger than they are, just well wrestled matches and its no coincidence I enjoy them immensly compared to the rest of their feud. Don't really remember this Raw 2006 match all too much.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw 06 match isn't anything too special (***1/4), but its a decent length (aka not that long lol) match where they just beat the shit out of each other. Exactly what it needed to be, just a shame they didn't try that when they were actually feuding .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't remember Raw 06 in the slightest.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ALL OF THEIR MATCHES HAVE BEEN GREAT DAMNIT :hhh


....But seriously, I can understand why people don't like the HHH-Shawn series, it's just that I happen to ADORE it and believe that everything they do is AWSUM' because well... Hunter's always been my favourite and Shawn is top 5 for me.

SS 02 : ******* (MOTY 2002, a top 10 WWF/WWE match ever IMO)
ARM 02 : **** 3/4* 
RAW 03 : ***** 1/2* (Top 5 TV match of all time IMO)
RR 04 : **** 3/4*
BB 04 : ******
TT 04 : **** 3/4*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hunter/Shawn are probably my 2 favorites of all time as well but I just can't force myself to like some of it. Don't get me wrong, I'll watch each and everyone one of their matches and enjoy them, but I don't think they're nearly as good as they could/should have been.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Awww... The classic Hunter/Michaels debate. I'll pop up with my ratings.

- SummerSlam 2002 ~ ***** 3/4*
- Armageddon ~ ** 1/2* (Boring as hell)
- Raw 12/29/2003 ~ ***** 1/2* (As good a "basic wrestling" match can get; really basic but splendidly done)
- Royal Rumble 2004 ~ *****
- Bad Blood 2004 ~ **** 1/2* (Watched it a few months back. Like it now)
- Taboo Tuesday 2004 ~ *****

Their multi-men matches would be:

- Survivor Series 2002 ~ **** 1/2*
- WrestleMania XX ~ *******
- Backlash 2004 ~ ***** 1/4*
- Survivor Series 2009 ~ ******


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Have any other two guys wrestled each other at least once on every big four PPV? Shawn/HHH have had normal one-on-one and triple threat matches at SS 02, RR 04, WM20 and SVS 09. The closest I can think of is Edge/Cena, they have wrestled at RR 06, SS 06 and WM25 but can't think of them being paired any time at SVS. Also Jericho/Benoit. (RR 01, WM2000, SS 2000)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If multi-man matches/tags count, then HHH-Orton have locked up at every single big 4 event ;

RR 05
WM XXV
SS 03 Elimination Chamber
SSeries 06 Team Rated RKO vs Team DX


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

^ The less people talk about the awfulness of that feud, the better it would be for both wrestlers. Those guys feuded--on and off--from 2004 until 2009 and have one great match to show for (actually one amazing and one great).

Even Rock and Hunter didn't feud for that long and they feuded for a long time.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> If multi-man matches/tags count, then HHH-Orton have locked up at every single big 4 event ;
> 
> RR 05
> WM XXV
> ...



Hmmmm there is a recurring theme in those matches that I can't quite put my finger on.:hmm:


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

That's what I hate with Triple H feud's, they go on for too long, and each time there is like, one match that stands out.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

I really remember enjoying the Raw match from December 03 was it? Really fun stuff. But when we talk about HHH/HBK, I mean, you gotta give them credit for the WM XX triple threat, which I personally feel is probably the best match of all-time. It's on a whole nother level. Of course Benoit was there, and it's important not to discredit the Rabid Wolverine for his work. Say what you want, but there are not a lot of workers I'd put above Benoit. Remarkable match.

But, yea, HHH-HBK underwhelming. I'm of the opinion HBKs return match at Summerslam is probably one of the most overrated matches I've seen. Total MEH.


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

One match featuring Triple H, that I find overrated, is the match vs. Undertaker at WrestleMania 27.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Just rewatched Cena/HHH/Edge since it was brought up a few pages ago. Fucking love that match. Haitch going batshit at the end and just fucking up everyone's shit with the sledgehammer is hilarious, as is the spot where him and Cena bounce Edge's head off of the announce table about 20 times. HHH also does a bladejob that would make :flair2 proud.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I love that Backlash triple threat. I also really love the HHH/Edge/Jeff triple threat when Jeff finally wins the title. HHH has been involved in some truly exceptional triple threats.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

One unexpected spot at the triple threat from Backlash is John Cena doing a body press/splash from the top rope. I swear I've never seen him ever do any top rope moves save for that legdrop and some Velocity/Heat matches where he's done the Missile Dropkick.

And for the HHH/Orton series, I've watched a lot of their many matches so I'll rate as many as I can. But some of them are very underwhelming due to a lack of chemistry.

Unforgiven 04: N/A
Survivor Series 04: ***1/2
Royal Rumble 05: ***
Survivor Series 06: *
New Year's Revolution 07: N/A
No Mercy 07: *** and ****1/2
Wrestlemania 24: ****
Backlash 08: ***1/4
Judgement Day 08: ***3/4
One Night Stand 08: N/A
Wrestlemania 25: **1/2
Backlash 09: N/A
The Bash 09: N/A
Raw 09: ***1/2
Night of Champions 09: N/A


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/HHH Series:

*Unforgiven 04: **1/2*
Survivor Series 04 (tag): ***1/2
*Raw 2005: **3/4*
NYR 05 (EC): ****1/4
*Royal Rumble 05: ****
TT06 (tag): ***
Survivor Series 06 (tag): *
New Year's Revolution 07 (tag): ****
*No Mercy 07: **1/4 (first) and **** (lms)*
Wrestlemania 24 (triple threat): ***1/2
Backlash 08 (fatal four-way): ***1/4
*Judgement Day 08: **3/4
One Night Stand 08: ***
*Wrestlemania 25: **1/2*
Backlash 09 (tag): *3/4
*The Bash 09: *1/2
Raw 09: ***1/2*
Night of Champions 09 (triple threat): ***


And as for HBK/HHH:

*SummerSlam 2002 ~ ****1/2
Armageddon ~ *3/4
Raw 12/29/2003 ~ ****1/4
Royal Rumble 2004 ~ ***1/4
Bad Blood 2004 ~ ***
Taboo Tuesday 2004 ~ **3/4*
Survivor Series 2002 (EC) ~ ****1/2
WrestleMania XX (TT) ~ ****1/2
Backlash 2004 (TT) ~ ****1/4
Survivor Series 2009 (TT) ~ ****

(Bold are singles matches)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Unforgiven 04: **3/4
Survivor Series 04 (tag): **** (Love this match)
Raw 2005: **1/2
NYR 05 (EC): ****1/2
Royal Rumble 05: **
TT06 (tag): ***1/4
Survivor Series 06 (tag): *
New Year's Revolution 07 (tag): ****1/4
No Mercy 07: **1/4 (first) and ****1/4 (lms)
Wrestlemania 24 (triple threat): ***1/2
Backlash 08 (fatal four-way): ***1/2
Judgement Day 08: **1/2
One Night Stand 08: **
Wrestlemania 25: **
Backlash 09 (tag): ***3/4
The Bash 09: *
Raw 09: ***3/4
Night of Champions 09 (triple threat): Yet to see


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I saw the NOC match when it happened and then re-watched it sometime in 2010, and I still don't remember anything about it. Either it was an unremarkable match, or my memory sucks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*HHH-Orton PPV Series*

SS 03 (Elimination Chamber : *****
*UNF 04** :* *****
SS 04 (Tag) : ******
NYR 05 EC : ***** 3/4*
*RR 05 : *** 1/2*
CS 06 Tag : **** 1/4*
SS 06 Tag : *** 3/4*
NYR 07 Tag : ***** 1/4*
*NM 07 : ** 3/4*
*NM 07 LMS : **** 1/4*
WM XXIV TT : **** 1/2*
BL 08 4W : **** 1/4*
*JD 08 : ****
*ONS 08 : ** 3/4*
*WM XXV : ****
BL 09 Tag : *** 3/4*
*Bash 09 :* **** 1/4*
NOC 09 TT : **** 1/2*

* Singles matches in bold

8 singles matches on PPV, with only ONE of them being a near classic/classic. I LIKE the Orton-HHH matches alright, but they just aren't that special whatsoever. The main word I could use to describe their chemistry would be disappointing. I mean, I generally like their matches together, but they shouldn't have been consistent main events for 5 years in a row.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I'm not the only one who thinks the Team DX vs Team Rated RKO match was _horrible_? Great! And after seeing Team Austin vs Team Bischoff, I hate it even more.

*Survivor Series 2003:*

Team Lesnar vs Team Angle - ***3/4
A great line-up with plenty of good talent but it's way too short. I do like the ending, though, with Benoit and Cena being my favorite guys and the sole survivors. They also make their friendship official and Cena turns into 100% babyface after this. With more time, this could have been a lot better, though. And Benoit/Cena should have been the new Two Man Power Trip with them winning the WWE Championship and US Championship at Wrestlemania XX, lol.

Molly Holly vs Lita - **1/2
Just some decent female wrestling, not much more otherwise.

Kane vs Shane McMahon (Ambulance Match) - ***1/2
Pretty good no holds barred stuff there with some cool spots such as the elbow drop on the table, the ambulance in the backstage area and Coast II Coast from the top of the ambulance.

Basham Brothers vs Chavo & Eddie Guerrero - ***1/4
Typical good tag team action that is very standard and also happens every week on Smackdown in 2003. Bashams do the switch thing years before "twin magic" and Bella Twins were around. And I find the kayfabe relationship between the Bashams and Shaniqua rather bizarre. From their talking segments to the whipping during the entrance... weird stuff.

Team Bischoff vs Team Austin - ****
One of the best elimination Survivor Series matches I've seen at this point. Big props to Shawn Michaels for putting on one of the greatest babyface performances I've ever come across. That's exactly how a face is built up, something WWE have no clue about nowadays. Orton starts his little streak of being the sole survivor in this match which continued until that _awful_ 2006 match.

Vince McMahon vs Undertaker - ***1/2
I already knew the outcome since the big spoiler with Undertaker Buried Alive matches is that he loses in every single one of them. And having watched WM20, I already knew Kane would cost him the match as Taker spends the entire match squashing Vince around with a horrible blade-job by the boss from the very first punch in the match! This is the very last of Big Evil/American Bad-Ass Undertaker which leads to WM20 when he returned as the Deadman.

Goldberg vs HHH - **1/4
Rather boring and sloppy. HHH is at his worst form in terms of performances here and Goldberg is a very limited wrestler. At first, Goldberg starts on the offense then suddenly remembers the ankle injury and starts selling it for the rest of match with HHH working on it the whole match. Then Evolution interfere after a ref bump and Goldberg takes them all out by himself but Orton and Batista were too stupid to not exit the ring once the ref gets back which kind of ruins the finish. But as always, there's Ric Flair being his entertaining, hilarious self at ringside. Is there any time inside a ring where he _doesn't_ receive a back body drop? It seems like he does every single time, lol.

Overall: ***1/2 out of ***** (Great traditional elimination matches, a couple of nice gimmick matches, two decent TV worthy matches and an underwhelming main event. A good PPV, I say.)


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Think I have finally decided on my Extreme Rules 2012 ratings now:

*Cena/Lesnar* ☆☆☆☆3/4

*Bryan/Sheamus* ☆☆☆☆1/2

*Punk/Jericho *☆☆☆☆

WWE show of the year by miles imo.

:bryan


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Random PPV viewing

*Backlash 2008 :*

MVP vs. Matt Hardy - ***
Kane vs. Chavo Guerrero - ** 
Big Show vs. Great Khali - * 1/2
Shawn Michaels vs Batista - *** 3/4
12 Diva Tag - * 3/4
Undertaker vs. Edge - *** 1/2
Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. John Cena vs. JBL - *** 1/4

Overall - 6/10 

Pretty entertaining PPV even without a spectacular match. HBK/Tista, Edge/Taker and Four way were all solid though. Surprised by how much I liked Hardy/MVP. Was a really fun match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash '08 is a pretty decent show to sit down through. Nothing really incredible but not much unwatchable stuff.

Honestly I felt that Backlash '06, '07, '08 and '09 all had great cards with very little poor stuff.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Yeah, I know it's been talked about in this thread before, but Backlash has always been a pretty consistent ppv. Watched WM 24 last week and had never seen Backlash, so just decided to give it a watch. About to watch JD 08 right now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have this simple, but fun idea that probably nobody will go along with but it's worth a shot so here we go ....

I'll name a random wrestler , it could be anybody from Shawn Michaels to Alex Riley to Viscera , and the next person to post would post what they thought was that individual's best match , and how they would rate it. The person who responds to the post then throws out a random name for somebody else to comment on. I know it's confusing but let me TRY (and fail  ) to get this thing kicked off ........

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin. :austin


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

vs The Rock Wrestlemania 17 or vs Bret Hart Wrestlemania 13


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

there's a thread for that in the OW section.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't you think it'd be much more fun in here yeah ? 

Seriously though Yeah, I'd like to know your opinion on what Stone Cold Steve Austin's greatest match ever is.... Summerslam vs Kurt Angle ? Wrestlemania/Survivor Series vs Bret ? Any of the Rock matches ? vs Steamboat ? Shoot.


----------



## OldschoolHero (Sep 1, 2008)

Id rather not have chain games in here, otherwise people really rating matches could get lost in the shuffle. I dont post here alot, but I read this thread quite often.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Game1778 got it right. Submission match against Bret at WM13 is one of the best matches of all-time, and the Mania17 encounter with the Rock where he sells his soul is one of the best Mania moments of all-time.

However, I feel obliged to express my feelings for his Caribbean Strap match with Savio Vega from back in the day. It's just a really cool match with a gimmick that, gasp, has not been done to death (though probably for good reason). 

I also maintain, timidly, that Stone Cold is the greatest wrestler of all-time when you consider the TOTAL package. Mic work, in ring ability, character, match quality, all that shit. Best technical wrestler, however, is a whole different story.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

For me his best match is against Bret Hart Wrestlemania 13 (*****)

Top 5 Stone Cold matches
1. vs Bret WM 13 (*****)
2. vs Triple H NWO 2001 (*****)
3. vs Bret SS 96 (**** 3/4)
4. vs Chris Benoit Smackdown 2001 (**** 3/4)
5. vs The rock WM 17 (**** 3/4) 
5. vs Angle SS 01 (**** 3/4)

couldnt choose which one.

thats roughly off the top of my head.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Don't you think it'd be much more fun in here yeah ?
> 
> Seriously though Yeah, I'd like to know your opinion on what Stone Cold Steve Austin's greatest match ever is.... Summerslam vs Kurt Angle ? Wrestlemania/Survivor Series vs Bret ? Any of the Rock matches ? vs Steamboat ? Shoot.


The discussion would get messed and people's posts would go everywhere. I actually love the idea and have started like five of those threads on different forums over the past couple of years, but it's prob better for a thread like this to not stir in that direction. Get too cluttered. 


I haven't watched it in a while, but the WM13 match v Bret is my pick. I never thought years ago I'd hear myself say this, but that's probably my best WWE match ever. I'd have to watch Bret/Owen and Slaughter/Sheik (and hell, Austin/Bret) again, but that's probably my top three in some order either way. Second (for Austin) is the SSeries 96 Bret match and third would be v Rock at WM17. Non-singles; WarGames 92 is actually probably better than one or two of those and IIRC he was in the whole thing. I'd have it above the Rock match, probably above SSeries 96, but not WM13. Austin has SOOOOOO many really good matches that people don't talk about enough, like the Vega strap match which is insanely great and just got mentioned D), but my outright favourite is v Benoit on SmackDown.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You're absolutely right (damn it) , all I could think about was the idea of multiple people replying to the same post and asking for opinions of different wrestlers, it would get a little clusterfucked.

I'm just gonna throw in my top 5 Austin matches right now for the fuck of it :

1. vs Bret SS 96 : *******
2. vs Bret WM XIII : *******
3. vs Hunter NWO 01 (I know, I know  ) : *******
4. vs The Rock WM X-7 : ***** 3/4*
5. vs Angle SS 01 (giving this a rewatch in the coming days) : ***** 3/4*

I find it to be borderline amazing how such a popular performer became probably one of the most underappreciated workers in the history of the business. We spend tons of time talking about Hunter, Taker, and Shawn, that we don't really spend on alot of guys like Hogan, Rock, and Austin. (Understandable for 2 of the 3 of course  )

Just going to throw this out there... When was Steve at the peak of his career in terms of his ability to work a classic match ? 92, 94, 97, or 01 ? Is it insane to say that Austin peaked JUST before the end of his career ? What other wrestlers have gotten definitively better with age ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hogan was so charismatic that his personality was simply infectious to witness during his performances. He may be the biggest babyface wrestler of all time. The way he could build and maintain a powerful connection with the fans during his matches was almost magic to behold in how it unfolded. His “get beat down, face-in-peril - hulk up - win” routine was tried but very effective to the live crowds and most of the viewing audience in those days. Hogan is not a technical wrestler and shouldn't be held to such a standard because he was masterful in what he did present and that was engaging a crowd and building larger-than-life moments that are talked about today.


----------



## Hazaq (Apr 25, 2012)

Huganomics said:


> Just rewatched Cena/HHH/Edge since it was brought up a few pages ago. Fucking love that match. Haitch going batshit at the end and just fucking up everyone's shit with the sledgehammer is hilarious, as is the spot where him and Cena bounce Edge's head off of the announce table about 20 times. HHH also does a bladejob that would make :flair2 proud.


I really love the whole Cena/HHH/Edge feud from backlash back in 06. Edge at his best, HHH was at the verge of a face turn and Cena was mercilessly booed everywhere lol. Its one of the best triple threats imo. promos between them were funny as hell.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Just re-watched Wrestlemania 28 for the first time since it aired thought I'd give my raitings.

*Wrestlemania 28*
Bryan/Sheamus - DUD
Orton/Kane - ***1/4
Rhodes/Show - **1/2
Divas Tag - *
Undertaker/HHH - ****3/4
12 Man Tag - ***
Punk/Jericho - ****1/2
Rock/Cena - ****1/2

*Top 10 Matches of 2012*
1. Punk/Bryan OTL 
2. Undertaker/HHH WM
3. Lesnar/Cena ER
4. Punk/Jericho WM
5. Bryan/Sheamus ER
6. Rock/Cena WM
7. Punk/Bryan MITB 
8. HHH/Lesnar SS
9. Punk/Bryan/Kane NWO
10. Punk/Henry I Raw

*Wrestler of the Year*: CM Punk


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Just going to throw this out there... When was Steve at the peak of his career in terms of his ability to work a classic match ? 92, 94, 97, or 01 ? Is it insane to say that Austin peaked JUST before the end of his career ? What other wrestlers have gotten definitively better with age ?


It definitely isn't insane to say Austin peaked towards the end of his career, he was in like GOD mode during 2001, which is my pick for his best year ever definitely. Well you can look at Taker and he seemed to get better and better with age. I think Taker is absolutely a prime example. I also think the likes of Orton and Christian have gotten better with age, they are 2 of the most consistent workers on the roster today.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Speaking of Austin matches.

Does anyone else consider Austin vs Benoit the best TV match in WWE history?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hazaq said:


> I really love the whole Cena/HHH/Edge feud from backlash back in 06. Edge at his best, HHH was at the verge of a face turn and Cena was mercilessly booed everywhere lol. Its one of the best triple threats imo. promos between them were funny as hell.


:lmao I love heel/tweener Triple H. I've been looking for the promo just before this when H tells Edge he took a nap and missed Edge's entire title reign. Know which one I'm talking about? That one was hilarious, too. Can't seem to find it, though.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

My personal favorite TV match is probably the Angle/Taker match from, I don't know, 04 or whatever. It's the one where Taker is in biker mode on Smakcdown and Lesnar comes in at the end with a steel chair. (An extra on the Taker DVD).

Just reminds me how good those two were in the ring together, and how Angle could bring out the best of Taker in terms of mat wrestling. I felt like Taker was more than able to carry his weight in this type of WRESTLING match. Really fun, great pace, even though there's no real finish (I understand it's on TV. No beef).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd say Austin peaked in 2001.


----------



## Hazaq (Apr 25, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao I love heel/tweener Triple H. I've been looking for the promo just before this when H tells Edge he took a nap and missed Edge's entire title reign. Know which one I'm talking about? That one was hilarious, too. Can't seem to find it, though.


Here - 






Tweener HHH was great. Crowd was electric that night in chicago. Awesome stuff.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb thanks!

edit he owns Edge :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Edge/Trips as a feud and match is flat out fun. Their characters as this time just meshed perfectly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched all their stuff not too long ago with my Raw 06 project (still need to finish lol). Lots of fun, and I enjoyed the build up with the handicap matches every week and seeing who would screw who all the time. Fun times. Triple threat at the PPV was a great blow off as well. Kind of a shame HHH would turn babyface and join HBK in DX to feud with the Spirit Squad and McMahon. I would have loved for the triple threat feud to continue and have a rematch. Maybe elimination style the second time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So since I've watched nothing but WWE Championship PPV matches (I've watched 200 out of 233 now) over the past few weeks, I decided to take a break and watch 'The Streak' DVD that the WWE has put out, but before I get to the actual streak itself... I was wondering does anybody here have full reviews of the matches on the streak ?

I've seen all of them already, but I'm actually going to review them this time. I'm looking at you *CAL* as somebody who has all of them reviewed 

PS : Why does everybody consider the Wrestlemania 22 Casket Match between The Undertaker and Mark Henry to be bad ? IT'S A DECENT MATCH YOU FUCKERS


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Henry match is not that bad. It's just okay at about **1/2. The problem is that it was a waste of Undertaker with a below average wrestler like Mark Henry. I mean, imagine how much better it would have been if they had let Chris Benoit be Taker's opponent instead of wasting him on that disappointing undercard match with JBL. Or Kurt Angle instead of giving it away on the PPV preceding it. My favorite choice would have been Benoit, though. He was wasted potential on every single Wrestlemania except 17 and 20.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I kind of liked Benoit/JBL. It wasn't a classic by any means but it's a pretty solid match for what it is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Full reviews of THE STREAK? Me? Nah, why would I waste my time with th... lololol here ya go:



Spoiler: THE STREAK



*The Undertaker Vs Jimmy “Superfly” Snuka – WrestleMania VII 1991*

The beginning of The Streak. The Undertaker had been with the company for less than 6 months, but was already featured in a match at the biggest event of the year against an extremely popular babyface, and someone who was involved in the main event of the FIRST ever WrestleMania 7 years prior. Not only was this The Undertaker’s first WrestleMania, it was also his first singles PPV match!

As The Undertaker makes his way down to the ring, with Paul Bearer and the urn in front, I am very surprised by the rather HUGE pop The Undertaker gets when his music hits, and his name his announced! The guy is supposed to be a heel lol. But then again, who can honestly boo such awesomeness? 

The Undertaker just stands and stares at his opponent, not moving a muscle until he sees a chance to attack Snuka from behind while he tries to climb the ropes and play to the crowd. It’s all downhill from that point on, with The Undertaker constantly on the offense, including landing his soon to be signature leaping lariat. Again, I am surprised at the pop for The Undertaker, this time as he lands a massive suplex to his opponent!

Snuka finally gets an opening for some offense, but a spring board cross body results in a Tombstone Piledriver! 1-0 for The Undertaker!

There isn’t much to this match really. It’s short, and seemingly has no feud to it either. It’s basically an aging superstar being squashed by a newcomer who would eventually become one of the absolute biggest legends in the history of the industry.

*Rating: **


*The Undertaker Vs Jake “The Snake” Roberts – WrestleMania VIII 1992*

A lot had changed since the last WrestleMania. The Undertaker was now a babyface, and also a former WWF Champion! The Undertaker and Jake had a short alliance, with The Undertaker helping Jake in his feud with The Ultimate Warrior. Eventually though, The Undertaker turned on Jake, helping out Randy Savage and Elizabeth when Jake was about to attack them.

The pre-match promo by Jake was great, as he talked about his recent actions on the Funeral Parlour (The Undertaker & Paul Bearer’s “talk show” segment). Jake trapped The Undertaker’s hands in a coffin, and proceeded to DDT Paul Bearer, then hit The Undertaker in the back with a steel chair, not once but twice! However, The Undertaker did not go down, which would have any normal man worried. Jake, however, was not normal. He claimed that once he lands the DDT, not even The Undertaker can survive!

A very different start to this WrestleMania match for The Undertaker. He begins by stalking his opponent, missing numerous attempts at grabbing Jake, and talking a lot of punches. All of which had no effect. Jake sends The Undertaker over the ropes, but he lands on his feet, drags Jake out and throws him into the ring post!

Roberts is persistent though, and continues to dodge The Undertaker’s attacks and keeps throwing quick jabs at him. Throughout all of this, The Undertaker seemingly has just one direction; forward. No matter what Roberts does to him, he keeps moving forward, moving towards Jake, until he finally gets his hands on him (or rather hand on his neck  ).

The pop The Undertaker got last year as a heel when he landed his leaping lariat is nothing compared to the one he gets now as a face. A Tombstone looks to be next for Roberts, but he reverses it into a DDT! The Undertaker is OUT! Roberts takes his time, looking very pleased with himself, but The Undertaker SITS UP! Jake doesn’t waste any time, as he lands a second DDT! With The Undertaker down a second time, Jake thinks he is out for good, and goes after Paul Bearer! AGAIN The Undertaker sits up, and goes to the outside to save his manager.

TOMBSTONE PILEDRIVER ON THE FLOOR! By today’s standards, that’s pretty brutal, but for 1991, it was EPIC. And a little fun fact, the Tombstone was supposed to take place inside the ring, but Jake changed the finish as to make him seem “stronger” on his way out, as he wouldn’t be beaten with a finisher in the middle of the ring.

The Undertaker drags a lifeless Jake back into the ring, and The Streak continues!

Not exactly a technical classic, but the way both guys play to their characters is great. The Undertaker wants his hands on Jake for what he did to him and Paul at the Funeral Parlour, and Jake knows he needs to avoid The Undertaker and wear him down as much as possible so he can land the DDT.

Speaking of the DDT... it might be a basic move these days, but back then, it was death. When Jake hit the DDT, a match was OVER. So for The Undertaker to sit up from not one, but TWO DDT’s, that was impressive as hell, and showed the world that The Undertaker was someone to watch.

Certainly not one of his best WrestleMania matches, but probably a personal favourite of mine, since I love both guys, and felt they did an awesome job too.

*Rating: ***

*The Undertaker Vs Giant Gonzalez – WrestleMania IX 1993*

The Undertaker was now one of the biggest faces in the company, but instead of being in the WWF Title scene, was being fed to misfit monsters, with one of the absolute worst ever being Giant Gonzalez. Gonzalez made his debut at the 1993 Royal Rumble, not as a participant in the match, but simply to destroy The Undertaker and take him out of the match. The Undertaker was near 7 foot tall, but Gonzalez was said to be nearly 8 foot tall! This lead to many beat downs for The Undertaker, as for the first time in his career, he was the underdog.

The match starts with a stare down (or stare “up” for The Undertaker lol), before Gonzalez nails The Undertaker with a clubbing blow, only for The Undertaker to be unaffected! Gonzalez keeps trying to hit The Undertaker, but the Dead Man uses all the built up frustration to take the fight right to the giant.

Eventually the size difference comes into play, and Gonzalez has The Undertaker right where he wants him... which unfortunately for us is a boring rest hold .

The crowd still seem to be into the match though, thanks to the popularity of The Undertaker during this time. They continue to cheer him on as he takes a beating from Gonzalez, including some spots with the steel steps on the outside.

The Undertaker finally makes a comeback, and the crowd roars when he finally takes the giant down to his knees! Wippleman, Gonzalez’s manager, gets on the apron and throws a towel to Gonzalez! The Undertaker grabs Harvey, while Gonzalez knocks out Paul Bearer so he can’t interfere while he shoves the towel (covered in ether or something like that) into The Undertaker’s face!

The referee calls for the bell, and The Undertaker goes 3-0 at WrestleMania thanks to a DQ (the first and only non Submission/Pinfall victory for The Undertaker at WrestleMania!). Gonzalez then proceeds to take out the referee, while The Undertaker is taken out on a stretcher.

Gonzalez celebrates in the ring, until a gong goes off, and The Undertaker returns to the ring! He finally takes down the giant for the first time in his WWF career, and sends him to the outside!

Nice way to finish the match IMO. The Undertaker still won, but Gonzalez got put over BIG TIME by manhandling The Undertaker and sending him away on a stretcher, while the fans left happy when ‘Taker returned and sent Gonzalez down and out of the ring.

I don’t know if it’s because I am biased towards The Undertaker or not, but this didn’t seem as bad as I remembered it. It was shorter than I remembered it too, which helps lol. It’s still up there as one of The Undertaker’s WORST WrestleMania matches, but I don’t think it’s a DUD. It was a change of pace at this point in time to see The Undertaker as the underdog (which unfortunately got overdone for most of his career following this lol), having to fight the bigger/stronger opponent. Keeping it relatively short was key, as Gonzalez couldn’t work a long match (and I don’t mean he couldn’t last long without getting too tired or anything, I don’t know that. I mean that if he went too long it would make an already bad match even worse  ). The ending wasn’t great, mainly because it led to a rematch, but the aftermath was decent enough.

*Rating: 3/4**


*The Undertaker Vs King Kong Bundy – WrestleMania XI 1995*

Yet another “monster” for The Undertaker to slay at WrestleMania. Bundy might not be anything special in the ring, but he was a huge step up from Giant Gonzalez, and the storyline going into the match was better too.

A little background on this one is probably needed, so here goes. As we all know, The Undertaker made his debut as part of the Million Dollar Man’s Survivor Series team in 1990. DiBiase was responsible for bringing The Undertaker in, and that was a key point to this whole feud. As you may have noticed, there is a gap between WrestleMania 9 and WrestleMania 11 for these reviews. The reason being is that Yokozuna and a number of other wrestlers tried to take The Undertaker out at the 1994 Royal Rumble. They were successful at putting him on the shelf for a while, which is why he missed WrestleMania 10.

Not long after WrestleMania 10, Ted DiBiase claimed that The Undertaker was back, and had realigned himself with the Million Dollar Man, and his Million Dollar Corporation. A “fake” Undertaker was revealed, so Paul Bearer felt the need to return and inform everyone that HIS Undertaker was the real one, and would soon return to prove it. At SummerSlam 1994, the real Undertaker did in fact return, and vanquished DiBiase’s fake Undertaker. DiBiase was obviously not pleased, and with the help of his Million Dollar Corporation, vowed to eliminate The Undertaker from the World Wrestling Federation.

At the 1995 Royal Rumble, DiBiase had IRS face The Undertaker, but was unsuccessful, so King Kong Bundy took it upon himself to attack The Undertaker after the match, and thus a WrestleMania match between the two was made! Not only that, but DiBiase has also taken control of the Urn!

Bundy tries to attack The Undertaker from behind with a running corner splash, but The Undertaker senses him coming, and uses his superior speed to move out of the way! The Undertaker hits “Old School”, and a number of clotheslines, but Bundy remains on his feet! One more clothesline from The Undertaker, and Bundy is DOWN! Bundy, however, is not an ordinary man. He is a veteran and a tough SOB too, which he shows by quickly getting back up and sending The Undertaker over the ropes!

The Undertaker lands on his feet, and steals the Urn back from DiBiase! The Undertaker gets back in the ring and looks to be in control, until Kama, another member of the Million Dollar Corporation, comes to ringside and steals the Urn again!

With the lack of the Urn at ringside, The Undertaker loses control of the match, and the monstrous Bundy takes pleasure in wearing down the Dead Man. Some big, yet basic blows take The Undertaker down, and a huge sleeper hold looks to be the end of the Phenom. The crowd get The Undertaker back into the match, but Bundy quickly regains control, or at least he thinks he does, by hitting a huge running avalanche (running corner splash)! The power of The Undertaker is still running strong though, even without the Urn, and The Undertaker just shrugs off the devastating move, and slams the 440 pounder to the mat! The leaping lariat puts the final nail in Bundy’s coffin, as The Undertaker clocks up another WrestleMania win!

Ok, so there is nothing special whatsoever about this match. It’s all incredibly basic, and the finish is a little weak too. However, the storyline leading into the match (and continuing after the match) was pretty good, and I have a soft spot for the entire WrestleMania XI event too, so I do enjoy this match more than most people probably. Like the Gonzalez match, I always remembered this match being longer than it actually is. The only really slow part is when Bundy has the sleeper hold applied, and that doesn’t last long at all. It’s still not a good match, and probably his second worst WrestleMania match ever, but I can sit through it no problem.

*Rating: 1/2**

*The Undertaker Vs Diesel – WrestleMania XII 1996*

Once again, The Undertaker faces a big guy at WrestleMania. This time, however, his opponent isn’t a foot taller than him, or at least 100lbs heavier than him. Instead, The Undertaker matches Diesel in height and weight (roughly). Also, Diesel is way beyond the likes of Gonzalez and Bundy when it comes to in ring work. He might not be a great wrestler, but up to this point Diesel actually has more “great” matches under his belt than The Undertaker! Of course, Diesel had the opportunity to wrestle with guys like Razor, Shawn, Bret and others, while The Undertaker was stuck wrestling talentless nobodies for the most part.

So for the first time in The Undertaker’s WrestleMania career, BOTH men are evenly matched. Plus, 1996 was the beginning of The Undertaker really stepping up his game and becoming a tremendous wrestler (it helped that 1996 was the year where he started getting decent opponents too lol).

The build for this match was based mainly around the WWF Title, to begin with. Diesel had been WWF Champion for nearly a full year, before losing to Bret Hart at the Survivor Series in 1995. At the next PPV a month later, The British Bulldog got a title shot. The following month, at the Royal Rumble, The Undertaker for a title shot. Diesel was obviously not pleased with this, as he felt he deserved a rematch against Bret. But he carried on, and entered the Royal Rumble. Diesel was the last man to be eliminated, as his own best friend Shawn Michaels superkicked him over the ropes! Diesel seemed angry at first, but high fived Shawn as he celebrated his win. Diesel remained in the ring, and only started to leave when The Undertaker was coming out for the WWF Title match. Diesel got in The Undertaker’s face, and a brawl started out. Referees broke it up, and the WWF Title match got underway. The Undertaker hit the Tombstone on Bret, but before the referee could count to 3, Diesel showed up and got The Undertaker disqualified!

Diesel did get his rematch at the next PPV against Bret, inside a steel cage! Unfortunately, The Undertaker promised Diesel earlier in the night that he would not leave as champion. So what did The Undertaker do? He ripped his way up through the ring, and dragged Diesel down to hell! Bret retained, and The Undertaker gained a measure of revenge on Diesel. The feud was no longer about the title, it was now personal. Diesel officially turned heel, and became the bad ass he used to be at the beginning of his WWF career. The Undertaker played his usual mind games, including sending out a casket to the ring for Diesel. When he opened it, a life-like dummy of Diesel was inside! The Undertaker was giving Diesel a glimpse into the future...

Before I get into the match, I just wanted to share a line of commentary from The King during this match that makes me laugh every time: “Paul Bearer would look ok if it wasn’t for his face” .

One of the main things in their feud leading up to this match was the fact that Diesel claimed he was not afraid of The Undertaker. Diesel seems to want to prove this during their match, and he does a pretty good job of it IMO. He starts off by charging into the ring and going toe to toe with The Undertaker to start things off; showing that he isn’t intimidated and he will take the fight right to The Undertaker!

More great storytelling from Diesel in this match, as he continues to show no fear, fighting the Dead Man head on, and dominating him! He isn’t trying to end this match quickly so he can get the hell out of there, no, he is slowly dissecting The Undertaker, and playing to the crowd why he is doing it.

I love the sequence during the match where The Undertaker tries to make a comeback. He starts punching Diesel in the face, but Diesel also wants to land a right hand, and they end up punching each other at the same time! They stagger back, then charge forward and land Big Boots to the face at the same time too! This was the first match I ever saw that spot happen, and I still love seeing it to this day.

The Undertaker begins to get desperate in the match, so he takes a risk by climbing to the top rope, and comes flying off with a huge clothesline! Diesel is resilient though, and quickly gets up and lands a Jackknife Powerbomb! Diesel isn’t finished yet though, and waits for The Undertaker to get back up, and lands ANOTHER Jackknife! Diesel again doesn’t want to finish things just yet, as he plays to the crowd once again, then goes to pummel the Dead Man. The Undertaker grabs him by the throat though, and tried to get back up, only to be sent back down to the mat by Diesel.

Diesel’s cocky attitude and seeming desperation to prove he isn’t afraid of The Undertaker comes back to bite him in the arse, as he keeps giving The Undertaker time to rest, allowing the Dead Man to get up and drop Nash to the mat with a Chokeslam!

A Tombstone follows, and The Undertaker picks up the win!

Both men are favourites of mine, so I always liked this match more than the majority of people, based on that fact alone. However, over the years, and again on this watch, I love this match based on the action and storytelling. Diesel is an awesome heel, and really plays up the whole “not afraid of The Undertaker” story throughout the match. This is also one of the better “big man vs big man” matches around, and so far is The Undertaker’s greatest WrestleMania match!

*Rating: ***3/4*

*The Undertaker Vs Sid – WWF Title – WrestleMania XIII 1997*

For the first time at WrestleMania, The Undertaker finally got to main event the show and wrestle for the WWF Title! It had already been nearly 6 years since the Dead Man had held the belt, but could he overcome the massive “Phycho” Sid to remain undefeated at WrestleMania AND win the belt?

No real story going into this match, which is REALLY weird considering it’s the MAIN EVENT to the biggest show of the year. The entire main event/WWF Title scene was all over the place for the first couple of months in 97, starting with Sid being the champion, losing to Shawn, who had to give it up because of a knee injury. Then Austin won the RR, but cheated to do so, and his title shot was at The Final Four PPV, which saw Austin, Bret, Undertaker and Vader battle for the vacant title. Bret won, but lost the next night to Sid. Vader disappeared from the WWF Title scene for a couple of months, Bret and Austin continued their feud, which left The Undertaker to be the most logical number 1 contender. And so we ended up with this match .

The Undertaker was massively over still at this time, so it made sense for him to be in the main event. As for Sid, while he is far, FAR from the best wrestler ever, his size and look was perfect for the wrestling business, and he was one of the first real tweeners in WWF, as despite being a top heel, he would still get cheers (MSG cheered him over HBK at the 1996 Survivor Series). Plus, he was obviously a pretty good draw (he always claims he is, and it’s hard to prove otherwise) since they kept putting the belt on him, and had him main event WrestleMania.

Before the match can officially start, Bret Hart comes out and starts to “shoot” on HBK (who was on commentary), The Undertaker, and Sid. Sid clubs his face with a huge right hand, and Powerbombs him! Sid then tells Bret to get his “whiney ass” out of the ring, which gets Sid a huge pop. Sid wastes too much time running his mouth at Bret, which allows The Undertaker to jump the champion and the match is underway!

‘Taker dominates early on, hitting a Stinger Splash to Sid in the corner, followed by a slam, and then Old School. Sid doesn’t go down from Old School, so The Undertaker comes at Sid with another Stinger Splash, only for the monster of a champion to catch the challenger with a bear hug! Nice work from Sid, he already felt the Stinger Splash, and knew The Undertaker was going for it again, so he was able to counter it into a power move that benefits him in his quest to Powerbomb The Undertaker! As The Undertaker tries to fight out of the bear hug, Sid lets go a couple of times and just smashed his first and forearm into the back of the Dead Man! Simple stuff, but really effective back work from Sid!

Sid continues with the back work as they go to the outside, which includes a huge slam onto the announce table, followed by a slam into the ring post!

Back in the ring, Sid locks in a camel clutch, which again concentrates on the back area of The Undertaker. Sid may not be a great wrestler in terms of having a large move set or being able to take certain moves, but the guys knows how to work the psychology side of a match really well.

The Undertaker manages to get some rest when he throws Sid out of the ring and over the guard rail. The brawl on the outside for a moment, before returning to the ring where Sid regains control of this match. A big powerslam takes down Sid one more time, and The Undertaker locks in a nerve grip, which just seems to piss off the champion more than anything lol. We then get a repeat of one of my favourite spots, which actually happened a year earlier, where both Sid and The Undertaker boot each other in the face! This is actually only the second time I have ever seen this match, so I had no idea that was going to happen, as I had forgotten pretty much the entire match .

Sid has hardly taken any punishment in this match, and because of this, he is the first to his feet, and is able to continue his domination of The Undertaker. Sid even comes off the second rope numerous times, but does it once too often, allowing The Undertaker to counter, just as Sid did with the Stinger Splash at the start of this match! With Sid down, The Undertaker goes to the ropes, but unlike Sid he is successful!

Tombstone attempt coming up, but Sid reverses it, and Tombstones The Undertaker! He covers, and surely has this match won, right? NO! The Undertaker’s finisher didn’t work on the Dead Man, so there is only the Powerbomb left.

Bret Hart shows up now, and levels Sid with a chair! Payback for the Powerbomb earlier no doubt.

Back in the ring, things look bad for Sid as he gets Chokeslammed to hell! Somehow he still manages to kick out though, and even avoids the leaping lariat of The Undertaker! Sid sets him up for the Powerbomb, but Bret shows up again to distract Sid, allowing The Undertaker to land the Tombstone and win the WWF Title!

Wow, this isn’t nearly as bad as people say it is! Despite being 21 minutes, which by all rights it never should have been that long, this is actually pretty good. It didn’t feel like 21 minutes, and never really had any dull parts. Sid did lock in a few submission holds, but they all had a reason and a purpose, and added to the match IMO. Both guys came out looking strong, Sid especially, who kicked out of the Chokeslam, countered so much of The Undertaker’s offence, and dominated the majority of the match. He also only really lost thanks to Bret too. As for The Undertaker, beating Sid for the title was big enough, but he also kicked out of the Tombstone, and survived the match long beating he took from Sid. The only thing I didn’t really like about this match was Bret’s involvement. It took away from the finish IMO, and really it was all rather pointless in the end. Bret didn’t feud with either man after WrestleMania (it wasn’t until 4 or 5 months later at SumerSlam that Bret had a match with The Undertaker), and Sid left not long after this match. But anyway, despite that, I still really enjoyed this match, and thought it was way better than basically everyone else makes it out to be.

*Rating: **3/4*

*The Undertaker Vs Kane – WrestleMania XIV 1998*

Damn, where do I even begin with this one? IMO, the feud between The Undertaker and Kane is the greatest of all time. I loved every minute of the epic build up to this one match, and that build up lasted ONE YEAR. Yep, an entire year of build up for just one match (similar to Hogan/Sting I guess, except this one delivered). Ok, I’ll try and summarise this one as best I can without writing too much .

Hmm... now I think about it, I guess the whole thing really started in 1996, when Paul Bearer turned on The Undertaker. But I’ll start off from when the feud really kicked off, which was at WrestleMania 13, when The Undertaker won the WWF Title. Bearer had left The Undertaker the year before, but now he was the champion, Bearer wanted to manage him again. The Undertaker refused, until Paul Bearer blackmailed him, threatening to reveal a dark secret from The Undertaker’s past. Reluctantly, The Undertaker agreed to let Paul manage him once again. It wasn’t too long though, before The Undertaker had finally had enough of Paul, so Paul revealed the secret; The Undertaker was a murderer! He had burnt down his home as a child, killing his parents, and supposedly his younger brother Kane. However, Bearer revealed that Kane was alive, and he had been taking care of him all these years, and he would soon arrive in the WWF to take revenge!

Paul Bearer would constantly show up to tell The Undertaker that Kane was coming, but it was a couple of months still before we eventually saw him. During the first ever HIAC match against Shawn Michaels, Kane made his debut, ripping off the cell door, and Tombstoning The Undertaker! Week after week, Kane would come out and attack The Undertaker, who refused to fight back because of a promise he made to his parents years ago. Then, in January 1998, it seemed that Kane and The Undertaker had worked out their problems, as Kane came out to help The Undertaker against DX, and agreed to join him at ringside for the casket match between ‘Taker and HBK at the Royal Rumble! It was at the Royal Rumble that we discovered the whole thing was a set up, as Kane and Paul Bearer locked The Undertaker in the casket, and set it on fire! However, when the casket was opened, The Undertaker was nowhere to be seen.

A few weeks later, while Bearer and Kane were in the ring, the familiar sound of The Undertaker’s gong hit the area, and a casket appeared on the stage. Lighting stuck it, and out came The Undertaker! Apparently the fire did nothing to The Undertaker, and his absence was explained by him going to visit the graves of his parents, so he could apologise to them for doing what he promised he would never do...

And so a match between the Brothers of Destruction was made for WrestleMania 14!

A couple of awesome things happened before the match even started, first with Kane attacking Pete Rose, which got him a pretty decent pop despite Kane being a big time heel. The second was The Undertaker’s epic entrance. This was the first time he received a special entrance at WrestleMania, and to this day it is still one of his absolute best. Druids came out with torches (flame on a stick, not those battery operated things!), which made a tunnel of fire for The Undertaker to walk through. And then there was his costume, which has been referred to as a “Bat Man” style outfit, which made him look even more dangerous.

The Undertaker starts things off with huge rights and lefts to the face of Kane, but Kane doesn’t seem to feel them. They go back and forth for a few minutes, just punching and kicking each other until Kane gains the advantage. Kane even gets the chance to Tombstone The Undertaker in the early going, but instead opts to slam him into the corner and pummel him some more. This match isn’t about winning or losing, it’s about two brothers wanting to beat the living shit out of each other for different reasons, which is why it makes perfect sense for them to not go for a cover or a finisher so early, and for them to brawl throughout this match.

The Undertaker even starts to cover his face to avoid those massive punches from Kane, something The Undertaker had NEVER done up to this point. That one little thing shows just how much of a threat Kane was to The Undertaker at the time!

Great athleticism from The Undertaker has he leaps onto Kane’s shoulders to beat his head in, but Kane just throws him off and continues his assault on his older brother. Bearer even distracts the referee allowing Kane to use the steel steps a couple of times. I wish this match had been No DQ tbh, because they could have done a lot with the stipulation.

The Undertaker tries his best to make a comeback, but ends up walking right into a Chokeslam from Kane! Kane covers, but lifts up The Undertaker after a 2 count! Again, these guys are just showing that it isn’t about the victory, it’s about the destruction, and I fucking love it!

One of the more memorable spots in the match comes when The Undertaker does his dive over the ropes, only for Kane to move, forcing The Undertaker to crash right through the announcer’s table! Now THAT was a great spot! I mentioned how I would have liked this to have been No DQ, but tbh they do an awesome job of getting in spots like that without the stipulation lol.

The Undertaker is far from done though, but is still overwhelmed by his brother, who continues to beat the living shit out of him. They exchange plenty of punches, before The Undertaker manages to set Kane up for a Tombstone, only for Kane to reverse and land his own! Poor ‘Taker, that’s two years in a row that has happened to him! Just like last year, he manages to kick out, and this epic fight continues!

The Dead Man catches his first break with a massive Chokeslam, which Kane gets right back up from, only to walk into a Tombstone from The Undertaker! He covers, but Kane kicks out! This would mark the first time ANYONE had ever kicked out of the Tombstone! Not only that but Kane gets right back up, only to receive ANOTHER Tombstone! Paul Bearer looks like he is about to have a heart attack, until Kane kicks out AGAIN!

The Undertaker is on a roll now, but Kane refuses to stay down, until The Undertaker hits a THIRD Tombstone, which only just keeps Kane’s shoulders down for the 3. The Undertaker may have won the match, but Kane and Paul Bearer destroyed him after the match, just like he was destroyed during the match.

This is not a technical classic whatsoever. But if anyone on this planet was expecting it to be, then they need to have their head examined. This was a personal and fierce rivalry, which called for a brawl, and that is exactly what we got. Both guys went into the match with the intention of destroying the other, and that is basically what we got, and it was awesome. Kane lost, but looked far stronger than The Undertaker. This is now The Undertaker’s best WrestleMania match!

*Rating: *****


*08 - The Undertaker Vs Big Boss Man – Hell in a Cell – WrestleMania XV 1999*

The Undertaker’s character had changed quite since the year before. He was now a demonic leader of The Ministry of Darkness stable, along with Paul Bearer who had joined forces once again with ‘Taker. We soon discovered that the Ministry’s plan wasn’t just about beating the hell out of everyone; it was about taking over the WWF! This naturally led to a feud between the Ministry and the Corporation, ran by the McMahons. Since Boss Man was the “enforcer” of the Corporation, he was sent to take care of The Undertaker at WrestleMania, in the first and only Hell in a Cell match to date at this event!

There really isn’t much to say about this one. It’s a basic brawl which for some reason takes place inside the Hell in a Cell. The feud didn’t need this match to be a HIAC match, and it showed. It could have easily been a No DQ match, and they could have had the exact same match, just using the guard rail to throw each other into as opposed to the cell wall.

The only real “brutality” in this match is when Boss Man handcuffs ‘Taker to the cell and hits him repeatedly with his night stick. Undertaker gets busted open a little bit (and we can clearly see when he cuts himself lol), and the handcuffs break when he falls down.

They spend the next few minutes, which feels a hell of a lot longer, just slugging it out with each other until ‘Taker hits a Tombstone and wins. THANK GOD. After the match is over, Boss Man gets hung from the HIAC as it is raised up. That is the only memorable moment from this match lol.

This is bad. Even as a huge Undertaker fan, I don’t get much enjoyment out of this. It goes on longer than it needs to, and is filled with virtually nothing that you would remember afterwards. Like I said, the most memorable moment happens AFTER the match. I’m also pretty sure that the fans were booing during the match, seemingly because it was still going on, as they were booing BOTH men .

Without a doubt the worst Undertaker WrestleMania match ever.

*Rating: DUD*

*09 - The Undertaker Vs Triple H – WrestleMania XVII 2001*

Poor Undertaker. His WrestleMania match in 1999 was so bad, he had to take some time off, and even considered retirement...

Ok, so that’s not exactly true, but for a man like The Undertaker, having a match as bad as the HIAC with Boss Man can’t be good for him .

In late 1999, The Undertaker took some time off to heal from an injury (I want to say elbow... but I’m not sure). I’ve read rumours that he was supposed to be back in time for WrestleMania 2000, but in February that year, he suffered a groin injury and his return was postponed. I don’t know if any of that is true, since it came from the internet .

In The Undertaker’s absence, Triple H had emerged as a huge star, and was the top heel in the company at this point. ‘Taker had always claimed the ring as “his yard”, and HHH was now claiming that The Undertaker’s “yard” was right in the middle of HIS world. Naturally, they would want to find out who really ruled the ring, so we got a WrestleMania match out of it. I really enjoyed the whole build up for this match, with Stephanie getting a restraining order on The Undertaker, Kane helping out, and HHH just being his awesome 00-01 badass self.

Even though this WrestleMania was in Houston Texas, the home town of The Undertaker, Triple H (the HEEL), got his entrance music played live by Motorhead. No idea why they decided on that, other than HHH probably wanted it to happen because he is a huge fan of Motorhead lol. Doesn’t bother me though, I like Motorhead too .

WrestleMania 17 is often considered to be the best WrestleMania, and even the best PPV of all time. I disagree with that, but I will agree with the people who say this is the defining Attitude Era PPV. Everything on this PPV, aside from the Gimmick Battle Royal (LOL), just screams Attitude Era, and this match is right up there as one of the biggest Attitude Era style matches of the night.

The match starts, and it begins as nothing more than a brawl, which is all this match would turn out to be. However, in this case it is FAR from being a bad thing. The feud had become personal, so it made sense for them to brawl, especially The Undertaker as that was his main style during this time period.

The Undertaker dominates the early minutes of the match, until HHH slows things down with simple but effective wrestling moves. Triple H has ‘Taker down, and as soon as he does, he goes out for the sledgehammer! Just as he is about to level the Dead Man with it, the referee takes it away! Pedigree attempt is reversed, and the referee takes his first bump of the night. Huge Chokeslam from The Undertaker, but Triple H kicks out! ‘Taker is pissed off, and attacks the referee (who would not move for about 10 minutes now  )!

Now the match starts to heat up, and we get one of the better Attitude Era brawls. They end up in the crowd, and work their way to a structure set up by WWE to hold technical equipment and cameras. It has multiple levels, and they keep climbing to the top level, where The Undertaker Chokeslams Triple H to hell! Well, if hell was a nice soft mat, then he was indeed Chokeslammed to hell . The angle we saw on the PPV looked cool though, until they started to show replays where you could see how soft his landing was . We then see how soft it is again, when The Undertaker launches himself off the structure with an elbow drop! Sure, the landing was soft as fuck, but this is wrestling, so I didn’t really expect them to land on concrete from that height lol.

They eventually find their way back to the ring, and the referee is still down. The Undertaker is in firm control, and notices the sledgehammer in the ring. He picks it up, looks at HHH, feels the scar on his head from the sledgehammer shot he received a few weeks earlier, and decided it was payback time!

Triple H does what he can to avoid the sledgehammer shot, and we end up with a back and forth slugfest in the middle of the ring! Triple H goes for a Tombstone, but The Undertaker reverses and lands his signature move! However, the referee is still out of it, so The Undertaker decides to land the Last Ride too! He elevates the Game up, and crashes down to the mat himself! Triple H grabbed the sledgehammer on his way up, and nailed ‘Taker in the head! Very smart move by Triple H! The referee is awake now, and makes the count, but The Undertaker kicks out!

‘Taker is busted open, so HHH targets the wound with numerous rights to the head in the corner. The Undertaker reverses this into a Last Ride out of the corner, and gets the win at WrestleMania, and in his home town!

This is far from a wrestling classic, but it’s still a damn classic! Like I mentioned earlier, it is one of the better brawls of the Attitude Era, between two of the top starts in the WORLD. I’m not usually a big fan of all out brawls, but when they are done right, like it was here, they can be awesome. Definitely a great WrestleMania moment for The Undertaker, defeating the top superstar of 2000 at the biggest show of the year in his home town!

*Rating: ****1/4*

*10 - The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair – No DQ - WrestleMania XVIII 2002*

IMO, this was the best built up match for WrestleMania 18. This was amazingly well done, and not only did the build up help make this a great feud, but it was also the major storyline reason for the brand split.

This match is just an all out brawl. Normally I would get bored with long brawls, but these 2 kept me interested all the way. I don't get why they made such a huge thing about Hogan/Rock finally wrestling at this event, when The Undertaker/Flair is just as big. Flair is one of, if not the biggest legend in wrestling, and The Undertaker had been a HUGE star in WWF for just over 11 years at this point. To me, this match was way bigger than Hogan/Rock, but of course WWF don't think so, which is why it was build up completely different to Hogan/Rock.

Most of the match is just The Undertaker beating the living hell out of Flair, with punches, kicks, and a huge superplex. It wasn't like a normal superplex, where they are only on the second rope, but it was a top rope superplex, which is impressive on its own, but even more impressive when it’s done by a near 7 footer and a 50 year old man with back problems.

Flair eventually makes a comeback, and starts to beat the hell out of 'Taker with a led pipe. The Undertaker doesn't really sell the Led Pipe shots too well, as he pretty much recovers straight away, but Flair still manages to stay in control. Figure Four applied by Flair, and The Undertaker falls back down and is pinned for a 2 count. He then sits up, and Flair is shocked. The Undertaker grabs Flair by the throat, stands up and Chokeslams Flair for a 2 count only! Great stuff!

For some reason The Undertaker attacks the ref (in a no DQ match...), but before he can hit Flair with the led pipe, Arn Anderson appears and hits his trademark Spinebuster! Huge pop for that, which only gets Flair a 2 count. The Undertaker then proceeds to beat down Arn, until Flair makes the save with a chair. The Undertaker takes the chair shots, then knocks down Flair, and sets him up for the Last Ride. He doesn't seem to be able to get Flair up, so he hits a Tombstone instead.

1..2..3. The Undertaker is now 10-0 at WrestleMania!

This is just one of the many amazing matches The Undertaker would have in 2002. This is also up there as one of his absolute best WrestleMania matches as well! This was also Flair’s best match in probably 5 years, and for The Undertaker to be able to do that is quite an achievement considering that Flair had confidence issues with his abilities thanks to WCW. ‘Taker’s WrestleMania match the year before might have been a perfect example of an Attitude Era brawl, but this was a perfect example of a brawl, period!

*Rating: ****1/4*

*The Undertaker Vs The Big Show & A-Train – WrestleMania XIX 2003*

This was originally scheduled to be a tag team contest, with Nathan Jones as ‘Taker’s tag partner. However, it was decided before the event that Jones wasn’t ready yet, so he was “taken out” during a backstage segment on Heat before the show.

The match came about during a feud between The Undertaker and The Big Show. After the HIAC match at No Mercy 2002 between Lesnar and Undertaker, Big Show attacked The Undertaker and threw him off the stage, putting him out of action until the Royal Rumble. At No Way Out, they had a one on one match, and A-Train got involved. Nathan Jones was a new Smackdown superstar, and on TV The Undertaker had taken him under his wing, so he began to help out the Dead Man against the 2 giants. Of course, all of that was pointless anyway, since The Undertaker would go alone against them anyway .

Big Show and A-Train try to use the numbers game to take the early advantage, but ‘Taker is a wise old veteran and knows exactly what he needs to do. He even manages to hit a Chokeslam in the first minute of the match! A-Train is the victim of the move, and Show prevents the 3 count by pulling him out. Pretty funny hearing A-Train, a monstrous man in his own right, telling Big Show to “get him!” because he was unable to .

Like I said, The Undertaker knows exactly what he needs to do in this match, so he is trying to end this one as quick as possible. Unfortunately, Show and A-Train are able to get the better of him eventually, and so the beat down of the Dead Man begins.

‘Taker tries to lock in a couple of submission holds in hopes of getting a quick tap out instead of a pin, which can be broken up easier. Show and A-Train decide that a submission victory might be a good idea too, and begin to take turns at locking in an abdominal stretch, cheating in the process.

A-Train makes the mistake of getting cocky, and telling ‘Taker that he “ain’t so bad”, and even goes as far as to slap him in the face. This just pisses Big Evil off, and he starts a nice little come back. Show comes in to break up another pin attempt, and ‘Taker has had enough of the constant 2 on 1 attacks, so he just goes punch crazy, and eventually finds himself dominating his 2 opponents! Good fun!

Show and A-Train again get the upper hand, with Show hitting his Chokeslam. Before he can go for a cover though, he runs out of the ring to meet Nathan Jones on the rampway! Jones levels Show with an awesome looking spinning kick, and then helps ‘Taker set up A-Train for a Tombstone, and the win!

This match is a lot of fun, no doubt about that. It’s a very nicely worked handicap match too, but doesn’t really go beyond the basics of the handicap match formula, which stops it being a better match. That being said, it’s still a good match, and something I can easily sit through any time.

*Rating: **3/4*

*The Undertaker Vs Kane – WrestleMania XX 2004*

WrestleMania X was where “It All Begins... Again”. Part of that was The Undertaker “beginning again” so to speak, by leaving his American Bad Ass/Big Evil gimmick behind and returning to his roots as the Dead Man.

At Survivor Series 2003, The Undertaker faced Vince McMahon in a buried alive match. While Vince got destroyed in the match, it was The Undertaker who ended up 6 feet under... thanks to his own brother Kane! For the next couple of months, Kane would constantly take great pleasure in letting people know that he was the one who killed The Undertaker. Then, at the 2004 Royal Rumble, just when Kane was building momentum... the lights went out and the gong went off. For the next couple of months, Kane would receive many “signs” that his brother was alive and well, and ready to return at WrestleMania to get revenge!

There is so much about this match that I love. Firstly, the build up was fantastic. The mind games played by The Undertaker without him even appearing was done so damn well. Then we have the entrances. Kane’s was pretty good, with the whole city background on the stage being on fire. The Undertaker’s was just epic though, even more so than WrestleMania 14. It had a similar set up, with the druids coming out holding torches and creating a pathway. However, this time we were greeted with an “Ohhhh YEEES!” by PAUL FUCKING BEARER, who was also making his return since 2000! WWE really knew how to keep people in suspense with this too, making it the second to last match on the card, and also waiting a little while longer before The Undertaker’s music hit. The pop when he does finally come out is great. How I would have loved to have been in attendance that night, to witness the return, and the entrance, of The Undertaker.

I remember reading comments the next day about how everyone hated the way The Undertaker looked when he came back, but the people in attendance didn’t care, and neither did I. The fact he was back, and as the Dead Man, regardless of how much he still technically looked like he did when he was the ABA, overshadowed any of the negatives.

Unfortunately, one of those negatives happens to be the actual match lol. Once the return and entrance is over... there isn’t too much to this one. Kane’s character had completely changed since their WrestleMania 14 match 5 years ago, and his in ring abilities had gone downhill too. Plus the booking of the match was more of a squash match, so we didn’t get the incredible brawl that we saw all those years ago.

They start off with a pretty decent brawl, then transition into the FIP spot (holy crap, 12 matches in and that’s the first time I have mentioned FIP!  ). A couple of sloppy moments, but for the most part its ok, just extremely basic and forgettable. ‘Taker doesn’t take too much offense from Kane though, as this is a squash match for the most part. The biggest moment for Kane in the match is when he counters Old School into a Chokeslam (after Undertaker tries to counter the Chokeslam with a Chokeslam of his own though lol). Kane thinks he has things in control, until The Undertaker sits up and gets another massive pop. Nothing Kane does has any effect on The Undertaker, which causes Kane to become afraid, and eventually leads to his downfall. Tombstone from The Undertaker, which gets another massive pop, and this one is over.

This match really isn’t about the match when I look back on it. It’s just a way to bring back The Undertaker in his Dead Man gimmick, and Kane was a perfect opponent to be fed to him. When I look at it as more than just a wrestling match, I really enjoy this one. His return was epic, his entrance was epic, and the fact he used a Tombstone to finish Kane instead of the Last Ride (which I liked, but got bored of during his ABA/Big Evil run towards the end) was epic. Far, far from being a classic, but overall it isn’t bad.

*Rating: **1/2*

*The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton – WrestleMania XXI 2005*

The Undertaker was a Legend. Randy Orton was a Legend Killer. He had taken out (aka RKO’d lol) numerous wrestling legends up until this point, and after a mediocre face turn and disappointing WHC run, Orton was looking to redeem himself by defeating one of the biggest Legends of all time at WrestleMania; making him the first and only person to do so. However, The Undertaker is unlike any other Legend that Orton has faced so far, and would not give up so easily...

I remember all the internet rumours around this time, all claiming that Orton was indeed going to win, and finally put an end to the Streak. While I have been caught up in The Undertaker’s last 3 WrestleMania matches (23, 24 and 25), this is the one match where I went into it believing that The Undertaker was going to lose. It made the whole situation even more interesting that it already was!

‘Taker gets perhaps his lamest WrestleMania entrance to date, as they try to have him “float” to the ring (aka stand on a moving platform that is hidden by all the smoke  ). Just looks... lame.

Orton’s entrance is more noteworthy at this WrestleMania, even though it is absolutely nothing special. He basically moved down to the ring pretty fast, not running, but not taking his time either. He spent no time in getting into the ring, and was showing no fear. A great way to get Orton over IMO, as simple as it was.

Orton gets put over a little more from the very start of the match, as he wins a couple of exchanges against The Undertaker, which frustrates the Dead Man, and causes him to begin to throw those big soup bones. However, Orton keeps himself in the game, nearly hitting an RKO! Nice spot with ‘Taker countering the RKO, throwing Orton out of the ring and into the side of the announcer’s table (which DIDN’T injure Orton’s shoulder, so that’s a big achievement in itself  ).

‘Taker takes his fair share of bumps too though, missing a big boot in the corner and getting caught up in the turnbuckle, then getting dropkicked off the apron into the guardrail. The Undertaker keeps coming back, as we basically expect from his these days in his Dead Man gimmick, but Orton stayed on his level, took punishment from The Undertaker, and constantly put a stop to any momentum the Phenom was building. I can’t even begin to imagine how much bigger this match would have been if Orton didn’t have the face turn in 2004, because he was already getting some major heat in this match, but a lot of people couldn’t forget about that relatively awful face turn that slowed down his growth as a major star.

I loved how Orton reversed the Last Ride attempt out of the corner, something that a lot of people are sick of. It showed us that Orton had really done his homework, and came to WrestleMania fully prepared to win. Bob Orton Jr (Randy’s Dad)’s involvement was a nice addition too.

Speaking of nice... the Chokeslam reversed into the RKO is one of the most awesome things to happen in an Undertaker WrestleMania match. Watching live, I truly believed that the match was over right there, but somehow the Dead Man kicked out!

Orton signals for a Tombstone, since his own finisher didn’t work. The Undertaker reversed it into a Tombstone of his own, and is able to pick up the win in his hardest fought victory since his WrestleMania 14 match with Kane!

13-0 now, and this is his best WrestleMania match so far. A great back and forth contest for the most part, with Orton looking better than ever during the whole thing. This was also the best The Undertaker had looked for a couple of years too, and I’m not sure if he could have looked as good as he did if he was in there with that many people, but Randy was one of those guys. Looking back on the match, if Orton had won and ended the Streak, I would have been fine with it. Orton looked like gold, and at the time he was pretty great both in the ring and as a character, unlike now where he bores me to death .

*Rating: ****1/4*

*The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry – Casket Match – WrestleMania XXII 2006*

The Undertaker had a pretty good year overall in 2005, thanks to his feud with Randy Orton. His 2006 started off good too, as he had a near 5 star match with Kurt Angle at No Way Out for the title. Then it went downhill, starting with this match. Henry had cost The Undertaker the WHC in a rematch with Kurt on Smackdown, so this match was made, and for some reason it was turned into a casket match. There is no hype video, and I forgot most of what happened in 2006 lol, so I have no clue if there was a legitimate reason for it being a casket match. The only video they show for this match is how Henry cost The Undertaker the title on Smackdown a few weeks earlier lol.

This match didn’t have the best of feuds behind it, but at least they did a good job of building Henry up as a decent threat (though nobody in their right mind thought he would win lol), having him beat Angle in a non title match, put Angle through a table, take out Batista, and even put The Undertaker through a table. So at least they were half trying .

‘Taker does a good job of selling for Henry, really putting over his strength. The theme of the match seems to be “can The Undertaker knock Henry down?”, as he keeps hitting big clotheslines, and even Old School, but fails to take down the World’s Strongest Man.

Fun spot with Henry going for his Body Guillotine, where he goes through the ropes too, but The Undertaker moves and Henry goes right through the ropes and lands in the casket! He looks terrified at first, but gets his bearings and drags The Undertaker in the casket, and they have a brawl while being inside the casket.

Impressive spot with The Undertaker hitting his corner Last Ride spot, finally taking Henry down, which causes Michael Cole to bust a nut. This is then followed by an even more impressive spot, as The Undertaker hits his signature top rope drive, clearing the casket too, and landing on Mark Henry!

The Undertaker then shows us HIS strength, as he picks up Mark Henry and Tombstones him! All that’s left for him to do is roll Henry into the casket, and this one is over.

Like the majority of WrestleMania 22, this is an extremely fun match. It’s not one of his best, but it’s still got “watchablilty”, and a number of memorable spots. The match told a nice simple story, with The Undertaker trying to overcome the power of Henry and just take him off his feet.

*Rating: **1/2*

*The Undertaker Vs Batista – World Heavyweight Title – WrestleMania XXIII 2007*

Going into this match back in 2007, I was unbelievably excited for it. Not because I was expecting a classic between the two (I had no faith in Batista being able to put on a great match), but because I was absolutely certain that The Undertaker was leaving with the title, and that's just awesome .

Not only was the WHC on the line though, The Undertaker's 14-0 WrestleMania winning streak was on the line too. The Undertaker, after finally winning the Royal Rumble for the first time in his career, wanted the title perhaps more than ever. Batista, after coming back from injury in mid 06, had won the WHC once again and was determined to keep hold of it and prove to everyone that he was not only on The Undertaker's level, but he was better.

This match might have been on 4th, but like The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 25, for me it is the REAL main event. It’s the main reason I bought the PPV, it’s the main reason I bought the DVD.

Teddy Long doing the ring announcing was a nice touch too, making the whole thing seem that much bigger, as he was the General Manager of Smackdown and this match was huge. Batista's entrance was nothing special, just his usual stuff, but The Undertaker got another epic WrestleMania entrance with the druids carrying the flame torches (plus his entrance is usually epic to start with lol).

I know it seems like I am rambling a bit (I blame Andy!!!), but all of this stuff really built me up and got me excited as hell for this match, and if I'm going to review the match, I feel I need to include all of this too .

The bell finally rings, The Undertaker comes out of the corner with his usual fighting stance, but just as quickly as he leaves his corner, Batista is running full speed into the Dead Man with a spear! Batista showing the world, and The Undertaker, that he is not intimidated, that he has no fear, and that he will do anything to win.

Back and forth they go, keeping the pace quick as hell, which is impressive as hell given the fact that both are big guys. The fans are firmly on The Undertaker's side, despite Batista being on of the biggest faces in the company. Let’s face it, how many people could still get cheered at WrestleMania against a face Undertaker?

Batista continues to show everyone that he will do what it takes to win, when he takes to the ropes, and comes flying off with a shoulder block! The Undertaker recovers and flies across the ring for his leaping clothesline, then goes for a Chokeslam. I love this part, with The Undertaker trying to Chokeslam Batista, and Batista using all his strength to keep 'Taker's hand off his throat.

They continue to keep up this amazing pace, going to the outside, where we see the usual "Undertaker WrestleMania Spot" as he dives over the ropes to the outside.

But even after that, Batista continues to come back and take the fight to The Undertaker, showing that he may be the biggest threat to The Undertaker at WrestleMania. An awesome looking Running Powerslam from one announcer’s table to the other is just more offence from Batista to show us that he is taking out all the stops to beat the Dead Man.

The crowd, and myself, are just going crazy for all of this amazing action, and it’s not even in full gear! Last Ride out of the corner looks to solidify a 15-0 win streak, but Batista kicks out, hits a Spinebuster, and then a Batista Bomb! Now, going into this match I was pretty certain that The Undertaker was going to win, but when he hit that Batista Bomb, my belief was suspended, and I genuinely thought that the streak was OVER. I wasn't the only one, the fans in the arena all seemed to be thinking the same thing, and when The Undertaker kicked out, the place erupted. Incredible.

This unbelievable match eventually ends with a Tombstone Piledriver, and I mark the fuck out as The Undertaker is once again the World Champion .

There is a reason I consider this the MOTY for 2007; it’s just fucking incredible. Batista brought his A game, perhaps for the first time ever (IMO he was better here than his HIAC with HHH), and The Undertaker brought his A game too, perhaps better than ever before. It’s a faced paced, action packed encounter that tells a simple story very well, and it never gets old. It’s also the best Undertaker WrestleMania match so far!

*Rating: ****1/2*

*16 - The Undertaker Vs Edge – World Heavyweight Title – WrestleMania XIV 2008*

I had been looking forward to seeing Edge/Taker one on one for so damn long, and it was finally time.

The legendary Phenom of WWE makes his way to the ring first, and comes out in attire similar to that of 1998. It was an awesome sight to see for such a huge 'Taker fan/mark like myself. 

Will The Undertaker's streak become 16-0 or 15-1? The outcome was pretty obvious, but like a lot of The Undertaker's recent WrestleMania matches, there was always a chance his streak could come to an end, due to his opponent. Batista and Randy Orton were the most recent opponents that made me believe that they could beat him, while Kane (WM14) and Triple H were the only other 2 that come to mind when I think of guys that had a chance. Edge can now be added to that list.

A great match. Both men put on a tremendous performance and have a match truly deserving of the main event of WrestleMania.

The match starts off slow and is more methodical than 'Taker's last WrestleMania match. Edge goes after the back of the dead man and starts to wear him down. Every time The Undertaker attempts one of his signature moves, Edge either counters or kicks out! 
The longer the match goes, the faster the pace becomes and the better it gets. Edge continues to outdo the Phenom, countering the Tombstone and the Snake Eyes followed by the Boot (which he counters with a drop kick). The Undertaker, while getting out manoeuvred by Edge, is able to kick out of everything he receives.

In what has become a tradition for big matches with The Undertaker in them, he hits the "Dead Man Dive", which is always amazing to see for a man his size and age (yeah, that's right, I named his dive!  ).

The referee gets knocked down towards the end, and Edge, as the opportunist he is, grabs a camera and nails 'Taker with it. The Undertaker gets up though, and Tombstone's Edge! Another referee comes running down the very long ramp way and into the ring to make a cover, but Edge manages to kick out!

The end comes when Edge Spear's 'Taker, but he kicks out. He hits another Spear, but as they both fall, The Undertaker locks in his new submission hold! Edge holds on for as long as he can, but in the end he taps out. The Undertaker has just become the World Heavyweight Champion once again, and is now 16-0 at WrestleMania!!!

The Undertaker may have left the winner, and the World Heavyweight Champion, but Edge left looking like a million bucks, as they say. It’s not often the loser of a match comes out looking so strong, but after his amazing performance in the match, countering The Undertaker's moves and kicking out of everything, he looked stronger than ever.

*Rating: ****1/2*

*The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels – WrestleMania XV 2009*

I think I have died and gone to heaven, because The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels are about to have a match together for the first time since 1998 .

The build up was awesome. Every segment involving these 2 men was just so incredible to watch. Shawn dressing up as a white Undertaker, getting the better of 'Taker on numerous occasions, and going to the graveyard made for great TV. The Undertaker getting the opportunity to talk more than he has in over 5 years was incredible.

Shawn coming down from... wherever he came from... dressed all in white was awesome. The Undertaker rising up from under the stage was awesome. Building this feud up around the light and darkness I think was creative, and was done in a way that didn't seem cheesy at all, like some 'Taker storylines can end up being.

The atmosphere in my living room with just me in it was incredible as I awaited this match to begin, so the atmosphere in the arena that night in Houston must have been incredible. I envy each and every person that got to witness this epic and historic WrestleMania match live.

I also loved how The Undertaker just stood at the top of the ramp for a few moments, seemingly staring down Shawn before he even gets into the ring. Doesn't really mean anything, it was just great for me personally lol.

The bell rings, and this epic encounter is under way! The Undertaker doesn't rush into anything, and neither does Shawn. When they do collide, its Shawn using his quickness to dodge The Undertaker's strikes, and is able to land some chops. 'Taker manoeuvres Shawn into the corner, and I saw something this time around that I didn't see before. Just as The Undertaker looks to get hold of Shawn, HBK looks like he fakes a Sweet Chin Music attempt, and The Undertaker hesitates for just a moment, allowing Shawn to get out of the corner! It appears that the last few weeks with Shawn landing those superkicks have had an effect on the Dead Man!

The Undertaker looks to trap Shawn in another corner, but this time Shawn taunts the Phenom with a DX crotch chop, causing 'Taker to make a mistake and charge right into the corner, again allowing Shawn to escape by simply jumping over him.

Shawn has avoided all of the attacks from 'Taker, but he finally gets some of those big strikes in, and Shawn quickly fakes a knee injury to try and get away, but 'Taker is having none of it! Another mistake by 'Taker, as he charges into another corner, and ends up going knee first into a turnbuckle. Shawn wisely goes for the knee, and locks in a figure four! The Undertaker has a long reach though, and is able to fight his way out of it!

Using his size and power, The Undertaker is able to control Shawn for a little while. Chokeslam coming up it seems... but NO! Shawn counters into a Crossface! The Undertaker uses his power once again to try and get out, and is able to at least stay off his stomach for a little while. The crowd haven't stopped making noise since the match started, and I haven't stopped smiling. Its hard to believe, but I am actually enjoying his match MORE on this watch!

HBK starts hitting some of his signature sequence of moves, which usually always leads up to Sweet Chin Music. Before he can hit the elbow drop though, The Undertaker sits up! Shawn jumps off the ropes anyway, and is caught by the throat! Chokeslam attempt is again countered, and Shawn goes for the superkick again! The Undertaker again hesitates when he sees that kick coming, and falls to the ground. Figure four attempted again, but 'Taker locks in Hell's Gate! This could be it, The Undertaker could finally beat Shawn, and make it to 17-0!

Mr WrestleMania gets to the ropes, and the hold is broken. This match will continue .

Shawn gains control once again, and sends The Undertaker to the outside. HBK climbs the ropes, and flies through the air with a moonsault! Unfortunately for him though, The Undertaker moves out of the way, and even manages to give Shawn an extra push to the floor! That looked sick! It’s one thing for guys to miss moonsaults in the ring, but from the top rope to the outside, it’s just insane.

Speaking of sick and insane... The Undertaker gets back into the ring, sees Shawn is slowly getting up... and comes flying over the ropes with his famous dive! Shawn knows The Undertaker all too well though, and just like 'Taker did with his moonsault, Shawn moves! Not only that, but a little throwback to their HIAC match here as Shawn puts a camera man right in the action! What's so sick and insane about all of this you say? How about the fact that The Undertaker lands HEAD FIRST on the outside?! You can literally see an indentation on the floor mat where 'Taker's head hit. Watching this live, I thought that The Undertaker was seriously hurt.

Eventually, the referee gets back into the ring, and starts a very slow 10 count. I swear to god, I legitimately thought that The Undertaker would be unable to make it back into the ring, but at the last second, the Dead Man breaks the count! Holy fuck was I in suspense there lol.

Shawn isn't happy that The Undertaker made it back into the ring, and sets up for the superkick, but 'Taker catches him and hits an amazing looking Chokeslam! Tombstone attempt, is reversed into a Sweet Chin Music attempt, is countered into another Chokeslam attempt, it countered into Sweet Chin Music! The Undertaker is down, but so is Shawn! HBK finally makes the cover, but 'Taker kicks out and keeps his streak alive!

The Heart Break Kid gets back up, and before he can do anything, is grabbed by the throat again! The Undertaker decides to go for a Last Ride this time though, which Michaels tries to counter, but still gets thrown up into the air, and lands with a crash! 1..2..kick out! How the hell is Shawn doing this? I expected the likes of Kane and Batista to kick out of these high impact moves, but Shawn? Incredible. They are really putting Shawn's resilience over here, and also driving across the point that perhaps the light is greater than the darkness.

What the hell is this? The Undertaker going to the top rope? An elbow drop? No, not just an elbow drop, this is a Shawn Michaels like elbow drop! Mark out moment! Shawn avoids it though, and the match is still going on!

Both men are back up, and Shawn is almost sent over the ropes, but he skins the cat, and The Undertaker catches him and hits the Tombstone! This is it, the streak is still alive!

1.

2.

KICK OUT!

HOLY FUCK! Only one man to my knowledge has ever kicked out of the Tombstone, without there being a period of time between the cover/count, and that is Kane. Now, Shawn Michaels can be added to that elite list! The Undertaker's face when Shawn kicked out is a sight to see as well.

Man oh man, this match needs to end soon before I have a heart attack lol.

Shawn is finally able to hit the big elbow, and he begins to tune up the band. Will this be the last song for The Undertaker and his WrestleMania streak?

SWEET CHIN MUSIC HITS! Shawn covers straight away, but it is STILL not enough to keep down the legendary Phenom!!! How often is it that we hear a WWE crowd chant "This is Awesome"? That alone should tell you just how incredible this match has been so far! 
Both men are up, and the back and forth battle begins. Shawn lands a shot, Undertaker lands a shot, back and forth, back and forth... boot to the face! The Undertaker got the better of Shawn in that exchange. Another Tombstone attempt is avoided by Shawn! 
How much more of this can either man take, or even give?

Shawn catches a boot to The Undertaker's face now, and climbs to the ropes one more time. Moonsault! This time it is on target, but good god almighty, The Undertaker catches him, and lands another Tombstone! The cover, the 3 count! This match is over!

The Undertaker is 17-0 at WrestleMania, and has FINALLY beat Shawn Michaels! This match can only be described with one word: EPIC. Both men put on performances of their careers right here. I had a lot of expectations going into this match, and they were able to completely shatter them. We might as well skip ahead to 2010, because NO MATCH is going to beat this one for me personally (unless they have a re-match and do even better  ). It’s also without a shadow of a doubt, The Undertaker’s greatest WrestleMania match!!!



*Rating: ******

*The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - Streak Vs Career - Pin Fall and Submission Only*

Fuck YES. When it was getting towards the end of the show, and only this match and the WWE Title match were left, I assumed the title match would end the show. And then the Title match happened first. People can complain all they want about the fact that the title should have main evented the show, but fuck it. They've done it before, and the matches they had in place of a title match at the main event were fucking shit (LT/Bam Bam, Hogan/Sid). Last year this match didn't main event, and the matches that had to follow it were fucked. The crowd were dead after cheering so much, and everything fell flat. And with the rematch being billed as an even bigger match, with HBK's career on the line, it was obvious that nothing would be able to follow it again, so WWE made the right choice this year.

Oh, and to anyone thinking that the "credibility" of the titles might be affected by not main eventing WM... what credibility? Having the belts change hands every month near enough doesn't make the belts credible to start with. Besides, its all fake .

Its funny how last year when I watched HBK/Undertaker live, I didn't think it was as great as I do now. It was only when I watched it again that I loved it even more. But with this match, watching it live I was marking out like a little kid, and I quickly threw ***** at it. Now I just have to see if that rating will stick on this watch.

The marking out began for me when Undertaker made his entrance with his fancy new coat. It just looks... cool lol. I like to interpret him wearing it and having the hood on as him looking like the Grim Reaper or something, and he is hear to inform Shawn Michaels that his career is over. Undertaker probably just wore it because it looked cool, but hey, I can turn almost anything Undertaker does into a logical positive .

Both men stare each other down before the match starts, and Shawn gives Undertaker the cut throat sign, symbolising that he intends to end the Streak. Undertaker didn't like that, so he charges out of the corner, and we get a similar start to their match last year, only at a MUCH quicker pace. After last year, both men know exactly what to expect from the other, so they are clearly trying to finish this thing as soon as possible before they potentially make a mistake.

Speaking of mistakes... Old School from The Undertaker, and when he lands, his knee gives out. Either Undertaker really did hurt his knee (and it wouldn't surprise me, his knees are fucked), or he did the best job at selling an injury since Christian in his ECW match with Swagger last year (thank you Viva for that one lol). Shawn takes advantage with a kick, but Undertaker is still too strong and remains in control for now.

But then Shawn fakes a Superkick, and when Undertaker flinches (nice throw back to last years match), his knee again buckles under him. Shawn sees this and gets a smirk. Yeah, he already knew that Undertaker hurt his knee, but in the back of his mind he could have been thinking that Undertaker was taking a page out of HBK's book by faking an injury (again, a nice throw back to last years match where Shawn tried it). But when Undertaker was still seemingly in pain, Shawn realised that the Dead Man was indeed hurt.

And this is where I was able to suspend my belief and just watch the match as nothing more than a fan, a mark, an idiot (or moron, or just plain stupid, I forget which word was mentioned earlier in reference to someone being able to suspend their belief during this match) whatever the hell you want to call me... and I couldn't decide who was going to win. Shawn was fighting for his career, and Undertaker was hurt. Similar to last year with Undertaker's dive over the ropes, only this time Shawn, like I just mentioned, is fight for his entire career. He has to be more determined than ever before.

As hurt as The Undertaker is, and despite how it turned out last year, the Dead Man STILL attempts to dive over the ropes, but Shawn clips the knee and goes right back to work on it.

This is WrestleMania though, and no matter how hurt Undertaker is, he will never stop fighting. Shawn hits the flying forearm, kips up, and walks right into a Chokeslam! Undertaker knows that Shawn always likes to kip up following that move, so he scouted it and capitalised on it. Shawn comes back, takes Undertaker to the outside, but Undertaker continues to battle through the pain, and he channels WrestleMania 8 against Jake Roberts, and Tombstone's Shawn on the floor!!!

Undertaker rolls Shawn in the ring, and goes for a quick cover, but Shawn kicks out. I didn't think it was over there, and from the reaction of the crowd, neither did they. Considering the time Shawn had to recover, and the fact he kicked out of one last year, I don't think anyone saw it as a credible finish.

More tremendous selling from Undertaker when he collapses while trying to hit the Last Ride. Shawn uses this time to go for an elbow drop, but Undertaker gets his knees up! Again, The Undertaker sells tremendously when Shawn lands on his knees. Hells Gate is locked in, but Shawn counters it! I guess you could put it down to two things here; Shawn making sure he does everything he can to save his career, and Undertaker's knee being so screwed up that he didn't have full control of the move.

A couple of back and forth finishers between the two now, with a couple of near falls, and while I did get caught up in the moment watching it live, this time I'm not as into them lol. Yeah, even watching live I knew they weren't going to end the match, but seeing it happen for the first time was just better than on a rewatch. Still isn't taking anything away from the match for me though.

The table is set up for a table spot, which I predicted as soon as it was announced there were no DQ's or Countouts. Loved what they did with it too, teasing a Last Ride, Superkicking 'Taker onto the table, and then having Shawn hit a fucking incredible moonsault. Now, was Shawn SUPPOSED to land on Undertaker's knees, or was he supposed to land on his chest as usual? I don't know, but honestly I don't care. Undertaker sold his legs again like fucking crazy, and it fit in perfectly with the story of Undertaker's legs being fucked. So honestly I don't care if it was a "botch" or not. Like the dive last year, it ADDED to the match rather than hurt it.

And now the part where I nearly had a heart attack (it happened last year, and dammit, it happened again this year lol). Following the moonsault through the table, Undertaker was nearly done. So Shawn tried to end it once and for all with a huge Superkick, and I honestly believed 100% that it was over. When Undertaker kicked out I legit cheered lol. When a match can make me CHEER at my TV when I am sat watching it at home, you know its doing something right!

My heart continues to take a pounding when Undertaker hits a second Tombstone, and Shawn manages to do what he failed to do last year... kick out! Not even close to the Tombstone kick out from last year, but it still did its job.

And now for the finish. Beautiful. Perhaps my favourite finish to any match ever. Undertaker pulls down the straps, goes to signal for another Tombstone, but looks down at Shawn and stops. He tells Shawn to stay down, almost like he knows what he has to do, but doesn't want to do it. He already said in a promo during the build up to the match that he wouldn't take pleasure in ending Shawn's career, and it came across so well right here. So you ask, WHY? Why wouldn't Undertaker want to end Shawn's career? Unlike 1997/1998 when they first feuded, last years match and this years match had NOTHING to do with sheer hatred. It was about the Streak last year, with Shawn wanting to prove he could end it. This year it was about the Streak once again, but with Shawn NEEDING to end it more than just proving he can. And The Undertaker had to respect Shawn for going to these lengths to try and do both. So Undertaker had sympathy for Shawn... but Shawn wasn't going down without fighting until the very end. He wasn't going to just give up. He gave the cut throat taunt once again, just like he did at the start of the match, and SLAPPED the Dead Man across his face! In a lot of ways, it was like Flair/HBK from WM 24. Shawn didn't really want to land that last Superkick, but Flair basically begged him to do so, and Shawn was essentially begging Undertaker to finish it here too. So Undertaker does, and he does it with perhaps the biggest and best Tombstone of his career. He literally jumped in the air, and came crashing down with Shawn going head first into the match. 1... 2... 3!

Good GOD! What a motherfucking masterpiece of a match. I said it last night, and I'm still saying it now: Better than last year. Not only that, but move aside Bret/Owen, I have a new best WrestleMania match ever. The story, the emotion, the action, the intensity... everything was there, and everything was perfect. I don't care if Shawn comes back again next year, I went into this match believing that if Shawn lost he would be back, so that doesn't matter at all to me.

*Rating: ******

*The Undertaker Vs Triple H*

Without a doubt the BIGGEST match on the show... and really the ONLY big match on the show. Despite my seeming man love for The Undertaker, I wasn't too interested in this one. Based on their previous matches over the years I had a lot of reason to doubt it. And watching it live didn't do much for me.

However, after sitting through 20 minutes of Lawler/Cole and numerous other disappointments, and the fact it was around half 2 in the morning by now, I was tired and a little bored and probably didn't pay as much attention to it. Hopefully this rewatch will do some good. I mean, back at WM 25 I wasn't THAT impressed with HBK/Undertaker when I saw it live. Adored it when I reviewed it the next day.

"For Whom The Bell Tolls" plays and out comes HHH for a rather unspectacular WM entrance. Nobody this year really had an entrance worth mentioning, including Undertaker right afterwards. Though I always enjoy Undertaker's entrance no matter what lol. Oh, and his new coat was awesome too. Maybe one of these days I'll look into getting a coat like that, always really wanted one.

No time wasted here as HHH takes the fight right to The Undertaker with those big lefts and rights. No need to feel his opponent out; he's been in the ring before, plus he just wants to end the Streak at any cost, so going for the big bombs right away makes sense. Undertaker just kinda shrugs him off though, launching him out of the ring. HHH throws more bombs at Undertaker on the outside, but Undertaker again shrugs him aside and sends him into the steel steps. Undertaker wants to control this match and go at HIS pace, regardless of what HHH wants to do. So HHH charges at The Undertaker and sends him crashing through the tool box, which leads to a great visual of Undertaker getting up almost DBZ style when someone is knocked into a mountain or something and they just stand back up and let the rocks fly off them lol. He stares at HHH almost as if to say "fine, we'll do it YOUR way".

HHH is really determined to take out Undertaker here, and as a result Undertaker takes a bump into the barricade that someone of his age and condition (hip surgery a year or so ago I think) really shouldn't be taking. But its WM and he'll do everything he can. The fight goes onto the announcers table, and HHH takes a huge bump with a back body drop off the table to the floor, and perhaps legit injures his left arm which he favours for the rest of the match, but not in a way that prevents him from doing anything if you get me.

Knowing that he is truly in for the fight of a lifetime, Undertaker knows he has to really bust out everything in his arsenal. After WM 25 when he landed on his head, I didn't think we would see it again, especially since he didn't do it at WM 26 and his condition has got to be worse a year later... but dammit, Undertaker continues to prove that he is still the best in the world when he wants to be, and he dives over that top rope as effortlessly as he did a decade ago when he was in way better shape. 

The big bumps keep coming, and Undertaker again puts his body in more risk than he should when he attempts to put HHH through a table but ends up taking a AA Spinebuster through it instead! DAMN!

Watching live, and feeling how I did (bored, disappointed and tired due to the time and rest of the show so far lol), I just saw this as one giant finishing stretch from the get go with no psychology or anything. Watching it again in a much better mood, I can see it for what it really is; awesome. The match is all about HHH wanting to end the streak or die trying, and Undertaker wanting to prove to HHH that is ISN'T his time to go yet. So HHH does what he does best; be a ruthless cunt who will destroy his opponent at any cost, while Undertaker continues to fight back and kick out of anything The Game throws at him. If they had started slow, locking up and "wrestling" at the beginning, it really would have been dumb given the context of the feud, so I for one am glad that they went all out from the start. Helps that they are executing everything so well too.

At some point Undertaker gets a Chokeslam in, but nobody in their right mind believes that its over lol. A Pedigree shows up too, and it too isn't that great as a false finish, just because of what Undertaker and HBK did the last 2 years.

The Last Ride spot, while again not the best false finish, was still cool because it was a great throwback to WM 17, as Undertaker defeated HHH that way 10 years ago at this very event. Undertaker getting frustrated was great to see. His character as the last outlaw might not look too different on the surface, but he really is been shown as more "human" than usual, and given the feud with Undertaker not accepting HHH's statement that he's done, getting frustrated like this at not being able to put HHH away really adds to the story of the match. If a Last Ride, and then a TOMBSTONE can't put HHH away... can Undertaker do it? Can he hold on to his streak? DRAMA~!

The second Pedigree is a way better false finish than the first. Like the Tombstone, its one of THE most protected finishers in the entire industry really (though other companies tend to use the Tombstone every now and then and NOT finish a match with it...). So seeing 2 of them not work, and then a THIRD in a very short period of time after the second one also not work was just amazing. I always go into these matches expecting Undertaker to win, but every so often a certain spot in certain matches over the last few years really makes me think that the Streak might end this time. That third Pedigree was one of those moments along with the last Superkick in WM 26 before Undertaker eventually won.

MOAR Throwbacks in the match (which I LOVE btw) with HHH using the steel chair similar to how Austin used it on The Rock at WM 17 when Rocky kept kicking out of the Stunner, and then the "stay down" which was a throwback to WM 26 when Undertaker told HHH's best friend HBK to stay down. Makes the match that much better that Undertaker actually finished HBK off after telling him to stay down and he didn't, so with HHH saying it maybe he would actually get the win!

Undertaker's selling in this match NEEDS to be talked about too. The man really is one of the better sellers IN THE WORLD today, and has been for a number of years, even with the Dead Man gimmick. He can make things believable while still being able to be the "other worldly" character. Here he comes across as more human, as I mentioned earlier, and his selling is just impeccable. You really get the feeling that he's at death's door and the next big move could end his streak, and his life (kayfabe of course).

And then there is the Tombstone. From HHH. Good GOD. I'm struggling to decide which is better; Tombstone kick out by HBK at WM 25, or this one. The crowd has been pretty shitty most of the night, but picked up for this match, and when Undertaker kicked out of that Tombstone they went ballistic. Almost as if THEY, like me, believed that it was over. And then it wasn't. And it was awesome.

Just as Undertaker was getting frustrated with HHH kicking out of shit, HHH begins to get that same feeling, and resorts to bringing out the Sledgehammer. He drags Undertaker to the centre of the ring, and informs the Dead Man that "Its time". And Undertaker sticks him in Hells Gate! What a struggle this is too, with HHH trying to hang on, trying to escape. At one point he grabs that Sledgehammer, and we know that just one shot from that and it could be it for The Undertaker... but HHH is fading fast, and the Sledgehammer drops. The hammer hits the mat, and then The Game taps out. I would have preferred for HHH to simply "pass out" to really put over the "die trying" mentality that he had going into the match, but its a minor complaint really.

Damn. Definitely, DEFINITELY enjoyed this more on this rewatch. A LOT more. A fucking TON more. This is fantastic. Truly epic. The storytelling is off the charts, the action is incredible, and the finish (while not 100% perfect) is great. This was one hell of a battle, and the selling from both men, but especially The Undertaker, is out of this world. Hell, I've been reading all day from numerous sites that a LOT of people believed that Undertaker was legit hurt and out of it. I just have to wonder what's next for Undertaker after the way he was taken to the back.

*Rating: ****3/4*

*The Undertaker Vs Triple H - Special Guest Referee: Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match*

Fuck. Yes. This is where another £5 went lol. Awesome that JR got to call the match, and they actually didn't ruin it by playing up on all the shit between him and Cole. In fact, Cole was toned down a TON all night, which was awesome. He's decent when he isn't being a retard.

The build up to this one hasn't been epic, but I have enjoyed it more than any other WM match build this year. The whole "uncertainty" angle with Undertaker was a great way to set up the re-match imo. I remember listening to a radio show with JR, and the host summed up this angle in a great way. Its just like Rocky II. Undertaker is Apollo Creed, and he wants the rematch because, and I quote "I won but I didn't BEAT him". And that's just perfect for this. Undertaker got the win last year, but he was unable to leave the ring on his own and wasn't able to return until a year later. So he wants another shot at HHH to prove that he CAN beat The Game and not JUST win the match.

Undertaker's coat looks epic btw. And his new hair cut reveal isn't nearly as bad as I was thinking. I was expecting him to be completely bald and clean shaven on top of his head, but its grown back a little and he even has a slight Mohawk going that actually adds to his new look.

The cell lowers to the sound of Metallica, and I have to wonder what shitty generic rock music they'll replace it with when they release the show on DVD/Bluray. Seriously, why bother getting music like that for JUST the one night and not including it on the DVD/Bluray releases? They've done it before in the part, but now they replace anything they don't already own the rights to.

Last year, Triple H ran straight into The Undertaker to start the match and would be the one to control the pace and the match for the most part. This year, Undertaker has something to prove to himself and to HHH, so HE starts the match on fire and takes the fight right to HHH, showing him that the beating he took last year isn't going to happen again; at least, not to HIM.

I've been reading Mick Foley's first book as of late, and there is a chapter where he talks a little about the best way to bust someone open "the hard way". It involves targeting the spot just above the eyebrow... and about 3 minutes into this match I noticed that Undertaker starts targeting that exact spot with a couple of right hands and a few headbutts! Blood might be a big no-no in WWE these days, but hey, if someone is "accidentally" busted open, they can't be punished, right? Besides, who the FUCK is going to come down to the ring and stop a Hell in a Cell match between HHH and THE UNDERTAKER? Nobody with a brain.

The match slows down a little for a while now unfortunately. The match is inside the cell so I guess they figure they should do SOMETHING with it, and that ends up as nothing more than throwing each other into the side of it a couple of times. There really was no need to put this contest inside HIAC. I think they did it just to say that HHH and Undertaker finally had a HIAC match.

Things pick up again when HHH tries to get himself back into the match with a quick DDT. He attempts a Pedigree on the steel steps that Undertaker brought in the ring, but a back body drop puts a stop to that. A nice little callback spot I guess you could say from their previous match, except last year it was a table HHH got back dropped. 

Another callback spot from last year with HHH hitting a brutal AA Spinebuster, except its the steel steps once again standing in for the table and damn does it look and sound a hell of a lot worse than last year! A desperate Undertaker sees an opportunity to use Hells Gate, but HHH has it scouted and is able to power Undertaker up and set him crashing to the mat! Undertaker's back has taken some punishment now, so its time for the cerebral assassin to do what he does best; go to work on an injured body part.

Time for the HBK factor to get involved in the match, with HHH brutalising The Undertaker with a steel chair, causing Shawn to show some concern for the man who ended his career. Triple H tells Shawn to end it, to ring the bell and stop the suffering of one of the biggest legends, or else HE'LL end it, and it won't be as quick and painless as ringing a bell. Undertaker makes damn sure to tell Shawn not to end it, which just infuriates HHH to the point where he brings out his trusty Sledgehammer to finish the job.

HBK gets involved again, actually preventing HHH from smashing the sledgehammer down on the head of the Dead Man. Instead he looks like he's going to ring the bell, a way he sees best to prevent HHH from not just beating HHH, but ENDING him. But its WrestleMania, and The Undertaker isn't going to let a match end like this any time, never mind HIS show. And if Shawn is considering ringing the bell, Undertaker believes he needs to take out Shawn, and he locks in the Hells Gate! With Shawn gone, HHH is next to feel the pain of Hells Gate, and just like the end of last year's match, HHH does his best to use the sledgehammer but he passes out from the pain! This one is OVER! Except... HBK is still out!

Another referee runs down as Undertaker levels HHH with a Chokeslam, and we get probably the biggest near fall a Chokeslam has gotten in quite some time, as HHH was still out from the Hells Gate and might not have been able to kick out. The referee suffers for only making a 2 count, and then...

SWEET CHIN MUSIC! SWEET CHIN MUSIC! HBK kicks Undertaker's teeth down his throat, and sends him straight into a Pedrigee! Its over! Its over! NO!!! Undertaker WILL NOT DIE! 

Triple H goes back to the trusty Sledgehammer, but Undertaker sits up and nearly scares HHH into submission! Its almost like Undertaker is remembering everything that happened to him last year, and its firing him up more than ever before! Tombstone! HBK makes the count... only 2! Shawn is GREAT here as he sits in the corner looking like an emotional wreck, knowing he almost screwed Undertaker out of his streak, and almost counted out his best friend in this "end of an era" match.

We get a great battle from both men as they throw big lefts and rights at each other to the "yey!" and "boo!" of the crowd, with them starting off on their knees before staggering up and continuing it on their feet. PEDIGREE! Another 2 count, and Shawn looks like he just wants this one to end so nobody has to get hurt any more.

With both men hurting badly, they begin to crawl to separate weapons. Undertaker goes for a chair, and HHH for his sledgehammer. A great visual as Undertaker has the chair in his hand, and stands on the sledgehammer before HHH can pick it up. All the chair shots Undertaker received earlier are now fresh in his mind, and similar to the HIAC match with Edge back in 2008, Undertaker looks now to give everything back to his opponent and then some. Chairshots the head have been outlawed in WWE, but the way these two have been swinging the chair for just back shots more than makes up for it. These are hard and every bit as brutal as a chair shot to the head would be.

The match now really is a reverse of last year; Undertaker has destroyed HHH with chair shot after chair shot and is screaming at HHH to stay down, but like Undertaker last year, HHH refuses to, even though he has almost nothing left. Another tremendous visual moment as HHH charges at Undertaker one last time with the sledgehammer, only for Undertaker to put a stop to it and shake his head. HHH, like his best friend HBK 2 years earlier, is defiant to the end and essentially forces Undertaker to finish him because there really is no other way. Another Tombstone, and this one is over. The Undertaker is able to put his year of uncertainty behind him as he not only won, but he BEAT Triple H.

The stuff that follows the match is really fucking great too. We have Undertaker and Shawn hugging, as Undertaker breaks away from his "Dead Man" character as much as possible without being Mark Calaway. And it was great to see Undertaker and HBK help HHH up and WALK him up the ramp to the back. Almost like Undertaker didn't want HHH to go through what he went through last year. It might not have been on his own, but dammit, HHH WALKED out of WrestleMania. As JR put it, "That ladies and gentlemen, is respect". This really was an end of an era, because its going to be a long damn time before anything like this is going to be able to take place in WWE.

This was incredible. Better than last year. If it wasn't for the part near the beginning of the match slowing things down and not really going anywhere, I'd throw the full ***** at it. This is one hell of a way to finish the incredible story arc that in a way began at WrestleMania 24 with HBK ending the career of Ric Flair. It really doesn't get any better than this.

*Rating: ****3/4*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I kind of liked Benoit/JBL. It wasn't a classic by any means but it's a pretty solid match for what it is.


I enjoyed it too, but to me, I'd much rather have used Benoit in main event caliber matches. And what better opponent than the Undertaker who was being wasted on a match with Mark Henry, who nobody actually could have believed was going to win anyways.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, JBL/Benoit was good, but Undertaker Vs Benoit would have been awesome. JBL and Henry Vs Lashley and Finlay could have happened or something instead, removing Finlay from the MITB wouldn't have made much of a difference.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would have fucking marked for Benoit/Taker. That could have been epic. Or FINLAY/Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Would have fucking marked for Benoit/Taker. That could have been epic. Or FINLAY/Taker.


At least they had a big TV match, Benoit and Undertaker just had short matches in 2000 when 'Taker kinda sucked .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> At least they had a big TV match, Benoit and Undertaker just had short matches in 2000 when 'Taker kinda sucked .


And the only other match they were involved in to my knowledge is the triple threat also involving Kurt Angle on Smackdown 2002 for #1 contender spot at Armageddon.

It's a crime these two never worked together more frequently since they were on the same roster for several years. A Mania match didn't even have to be about face vs heel. Could've just had a battle out of respect.

And I've wanted to ask this for a while, did Batista officially turn heel during his feud with Taker? His actions at No Way Out certainly suggested that and the way he was getting booed mercilessly at Mania would do so as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Batista-Undertaker 2007 fued is one of my favorites in all of wrestling, not just because im a big Taker mark (course that helps lol), but thier matches all feel epic and somewhat special to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> And the only other match they were involved in to my knowledge is the triple threat also involving Kurt Angle on Smackdown 2002 for #1 contender spot at Armageddon.
> 
> It's a crime these two never worked together more frequently since they were on the same roster for several years. A Mania match didn't even have to be about face vs heel. Could've just had a battle out of respect.
> 
> And I've wanted to ask this for a while, did Batista officially turn heel during his feud with Taker? His actions at No Way Out certainly suggested that and the way he was getting booed mercilessly at Mania would do so as well.


Raw, SD and Rebellion 2000 are their only singles matches, then that triple threat. Not even sure if they had any matches against each other in tags lol. 

Batista was babyface during the entire Undertaker series in 07.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Are there any annoying edits/imperfections on the Streak DVD?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Are there any annoying edits/imperfections on the Streak DVD?


Yeah, they included the WM15 match. :avit:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Yeah, they included the WM15 match. :avit:


:lmao


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

WHC Elimination Chamber 2011: ****1/4

Just a ton of fun and much better then expected, it worked out really well. Edge and Mysterio worked well together, McIntyre was on a (short) rampage and even the bits with Kane and Big Show were not boring at all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> Yeah, they included the WM15 match. :avit:


:lmao Im sure Bossman would call it a classic...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> Yeah, they included the WM15 match. :avit:


:lmao

That's the kind of match I could see Vince Russo bragging about and trying to make it sound like it's good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> :lmao Im sure Bossman would call it a classic...


Don't speak ill of the dead like that! :no:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watching the Shawn/Bret doc. It's been alright so far but not special. I enjoy Shawn and Bret talking about how it shouldn't matter the size of the guy, as long as he's doing a good job.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> Watching the Shawn/Bret doc. It's been alright so far but not special. I enjoy Shawn and Bret talking about how it shouldn't matter the size of the guy, as long as he's doing a good job.


and having Shawn trying to set a new world record for the use of "you know" in a sentence, plus his memory loss, great interview though, historic, love Bret's account's in general.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

zep81 said:


> and having Shawn trying to set a new world record for the use of "you know" in a sentence, plus his memory loss, great interview though, historic, love Bret's account's in general.


:lmao About half way in but I had noticed how many times he said 'you know'. It's been really interesting though. I love the format of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Documentary was ok. No new info really from what I already knew form other documentaries, their books and shoot interviews etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It was just a marvel to see them sitting an inch from each other talking face to face about all the things they have written about, hope to see more in the series tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Other DVD's in the Rivalry series won't quite be the same since every big feud and shit was all kayfabe hate aside from personal jealousy and shit from some people .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think I'd still enjoy them if they made up by it by going to a more shoot style.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I know they were actually cool with each other, but I'd kill for a Greatest Rivalries disc with Austin and The Rock. They're both funny guys IRL, so I think the documentary would be really enjoyable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are plenty of feuds that I'd like to see DVD/Documentaries made from, but I think most of them should be done more in a superstar documentary style than sit down like Bret/Shawn.


----------



## CM Punk Says... (Jul 31, 2012)

I would kill for a Rock/Austin or even Rock/HHH.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock/Austin....Rock/HHH... Are you serious bro ?


WE GOT A ROCK VS CENA DVD COMING OUR WAY MOTHERFUCKERS! :cena :rocky


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Watched DAVE/Haitch HIAC today. Pretty brutal, actually find it a bit unsettling at some points. Still a great match with a great finish though. ****


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Rock/Austin....Rock/HHH... Are you serious bro ?
> 
> 
> WE GOT A ROCK VS CENA DVD COMING OUR WAY MOTHERFUCKERS! :cena :rocky


:lmao Repped


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally got around to watching the Bork/Benoit match.

*Brock Lesnar (c) vs Chris Benoit for the WWE Championship (Smackdown 4/12/2003)* - ****1/4

One of the best TV matches I've seen by far. Starts with Brock being obsessed with making Benoit tap out in retaliation to the "You tapped out" chants and Survivor Series but then Benoit proves to be a tough challenge and keeps coming back again and again which makes Lesnar change his plans and even resort to attempts at a count-out victory. After doing some great mat-wrestling at a good pace, a ref bump takes place and Benoit locks in the Crossface which forces Lesnar to tap out a week after he yelled "I GUARANTEE YOU, I WILL NEVER TAP OUT AGAIN!". Fans ate it up just fine then Brock made his little comeback with an F5 which Benoit kicked out of. He brings out a chair to damage Benoit's leg and referee gets up again. Brock, then, introduces the Brock Lock here in hopes of finally getting Benoit to tap out. But to no avail, Benoit prefers to feel the pain rather than give up and eventually, passes out which results in Brock retaining in a hard-fought back and forth classic. Brock continues his obsession with making Benoit tap out post-match and locks in the Crossface on an unconscious Benoit and takes his hand and makes it tap against the mat just to brag about making Benoit tap next week. Post-match, Benoit gets up and walks to the back to a standing ovation which is the closure to an excellent Smackdown episode.

Gotta give Benoit props because he put on this classic shortly after another great ***3/4 match with John Cena where Cena's "never give up" motto becomes questionable!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In all seriousness though, I pity anybody who actually has to go and pay money on that Rock vs Cena bullshit. Bad feud, THREE matches on the set (1 being shitty, 1 being meh, and one being good but WAY overrated) , and I'm sick of hearing about "ZOMG ROCK'S A BIG MOVIE STARRR ZOMG CENA RIZEZ ABUV HAT" . 

My birthday's in 3 weeks , and as somebody who buys every new DVD that comes out, there wasn't any better timing for me. My girl is gonna pick up the Top 50 finishers DVD, Kofi/Orton SC DVDs, and the Rock vs Cena DVD for my birthday. Now I won't have to spend a single cent on that trash. 

I WANT DAT TRIPS DVD TO BE RELEASED :hhh


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock/Cena DVD looks so awful. :lmao

Might pick up Backlash '09 and RR '10 soon.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Why would anyone pay to see that feud again? they can just see it again on this years RTWM.

:troll


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *I WANT DAT TRIPS DVD TO BE RELEASED* :hhh


In all seriousness, it's fucking ridiculous that he hasn't had a proper DVD set since 2002 while everybody under the sun seems to be on at least their second release. :hhh indeed lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plenty of guys need a DVD set before HHH tbh.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

By "proper" I assume you are talking about 3-disc set with documentary and extras? I quite like the King of Kings 2-disc set that was released in 2008. Solid collection of matches and some commentary from Trips on his career. With all of this retirement talk maybe they will put something together eventually.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah, by proper I mean a 3 disc set with a documentary and all that jazz. Fuck whoever you think needs one, Cal lol. HHH needs one more. In fact, he should release a set on himself once a month so he can bury all the other releases in sales 8*D.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Now that BACKLUND has returned to the WWE, I want a 3-disc set released on his career.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm assuming that Trips will get a 4 disc set, similar to the Austin one later in 2013.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH burying DVD sales? LOL. He ain't a big enough draw 8*D.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

WWE has released a shit tonne of HHH dvds in recent years.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Yeah, by proper I mean a 3 disc set with a documentary and all that jazz. Fuck whoever you think needs one, Cal lol. HHH needs one more. In fact, he should release a set on himself once a month so he can bury all the other releases in sales 8*D.


Doesn't he already do that with T-Shirts? :hhh


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> WWE has released a shit tonne of HHH dvds in recent years.


Fun fact: he played an ex-con, both times.

Watch HHH come out with a mega-bury 9 disc DVD set one day. One of the discs will be made up of him pedigreeing everyone during the advert breaks at TV tapings.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

NearFall said:


> Doesn't he already do that with T-Shirts? :hhh


No actually. He hardly ever gets new shirts these days. Only when he turns up for a match which is twice a year lol. 

*Triple H: Huntor The BarBURRIOR 25 disc special edition DVD (comes with free miniature shovel)*


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

The ultimate WWE film would feature Cena's spouse being kidnapped by ex-con HHH, with Orton going to the papers to report it.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> No actually. He hardly ever gets new shirts these days. Only when he turns up for a match which is twice a year lol.
> 
> *Triple H: Huntor The BarBURRIOR 25 disc special edition DVD (comes with free miniature shovel)*


Shows how often I check up on WWE shop then lol, past few check-ups he has had one. I only ever ordered the BITW shirt, and it was annoying to pay extra for customs.












Don't be mad


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Why would I be mad lol? I'm partaking in the funnies. I don't get mad, but when I do, I :hhh.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Your sig...Bork is giving me the look he gave Cena when he felt the feeling.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Huganomics said:


> The ultimate WWE film would feature Cena's spouse being kidnapped by ex-con HHH, with Orton going to the papers to report it.


ONLY if Cena is a cop to seal the deal.

Oh my god the thought has genuinely cracked me up :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I imagine Trip will get an anthology like the big four PPVs used to.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Wrestlemania 14 is my favorite wrestlemania. I watched it live on PPV. I still hold Kane/Undertaker is a fantastic match. Great angle. Kane was absolute dominant and terrifying in 97-March 98. New Age Outlaws. I was pumped for Austin/Michaels, and I specifically pulling for HBK. I loved DX, the real DX, and this was their last original appearance together. The match had a real BIG match atmosphere, with Tyson as enforcer. Awesome build-up. "Tyson and Austin! Tyson and Austin!" HBK was obviously in pain, but this was real fun to watch and definitely delivered. Definitely my personal favorite WM ever still.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

We have a DVD highlighting the best high-flyers in history so I would love to see a similar DVD highlighting the best technical wrestlers.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd rather the best brawlers, tbh. When done well, brawling is a lot more entertaining than technical wrestling, IMO. It's just a shame not many people can do it well


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> We have a DVD highlighting the best high-flyers in history so I would love to see a similar DVD highlighting the best technical wrestlers.


Without the man we can't mention though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best of technical wrestlers set wouldn't really interest me, even if they could use Benoit. They'd just throw the shitty matches on like Angle Vs Benoit (not all shitty, but not exactly the best examples of good technical wrestling either) and then a bunch of repeats (Rey/Malenko matches where Malenko works a random body part for 90% of the match then they do some counters at the end and someone wins...).


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

greendayedgehead said:


> ONLY if Cena is a cop to seal the deal.


Big Show is his big lovable retarded partner.

And the film ends with a deus ex machina when Cena's hanging off a cliff before Kane lowers his big dick to lift him to safety.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I think WWE considers Orton to be a technical wrestler.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That wouldn't surprise me. In the Foley feud in 2000 they tried to play up Triple H being a "technical wrestler" having to step up his physicality game (no pun) against the hardcore brawler Cactus Jack.

Or even better, Triple H was the "technical wrestler" in the 3 Stages of Hell match with Austin in 2001.

"Technical wrestler" is just a term they throw out there to add to a wrestler's character as opposed to an actual description of his wrestling style.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Triple H was so hopeless until the Foley feud (as a wrestler) that they had to bill him as a technical wrestler because he wasn't a brawler, a mauler, or anything specific. He wasn't bad but Triple H hadn't stood out as wrestler and he was more of a character than the guy who could do it in the ring. Everything changed after that feud though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips in 2000 was all over the show. When he was fighting Cactus he was labelled a technician but when he was fighting Benoit just a few months later he was labelled a brawler lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And yet he isn't very good at either being a brawler or a technician . Jack of all trades and master of none.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

^ To play the devil's advocate, I think one needs to be a "jack of all trades" to be successful in wrestling. Master of one and not-so-good on other trades makes one too one-dimensional.

There have been a brilliant few, but those are very few.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are plenty of guys who have been hugely successful while only being great at one thing. Then again, I suppose HHH became as successfully as he has for being good at doing one thing *cough*Stephanie*cough* :side:.

Plus I think guys these days try to adapt too many styles and aren't really good at any of them and end up having messy matches. Majority of the indies these days just seem to be guys trying to be all "Technical" on the mat while throwing some high flying shit in (DIVES~!), then getting juiced to make themselves look "hardcore" and finishing it off by pretending to be Japanese and hitting each other with stiff strikes before finishing the match. Then we end up with tons of guys going the same thing having the same matches and few of them really being able to put it all together and having good matches. I know its not ALL like that and there are some good wrestlers in the indies having good matches, but for every good wrestler having a good match there are 20 more doing the same shit I just wrote about lol.

So in summary, HHH isn't particularly good at any one thing which is probably why he's been mediocre for the better part of the last decade .


























HHH sucks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

For those who underestimate the power of Trips, look no further than in this thread to be proven wrong, because it seems as if he's the ONLY guy we've been talking about all summer (then again, it could be just because he's the only guy I HAVE been talking about for the last...Well...However long I joined on to here).

One of my friends asked me the other day what WWF/WWE matches do I currently have at ******* , and besides HBK, Hunter has the most IMO. His best matches are up there with the best of the best, and he was EXTREMELY consistent from 04-06 , it's just that ever since his return post second quad tear he has had some inconsistent moments in his career.

As a little bonus , here are my list of WWF/WWE wrestlers with multiple ***** matches :

Shawn Michaels : 5
HHH : 5
Undertaker : 3
Bret Hart : 3
Steve Austin : 3
Kurt Angle : 2
Chris Benoit : 2

However, I believe that HHH's best match would be 6th on my all-time list, while both the Undertaker and HBK have wrestled 3 matches in my top 5 EVER (which is INSANE to think about).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***** HHH matches:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> We have a DVD highlighting the best high-flyers in history so I would love to see a similar DVD highlighting the best technical wrestlers.


Unless they man up and stop the censorship on Benoit, they should never ever touch anything that requires bringing him up because quite frankly, technical superstaring (as those idiots like to call their wrestlers) should never be touched unless Benoit is in the discussion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

****** HHH Matches*

1. :hhh vs Cactus Jack : RR 00
2. :hhh vs Shawn Michaels : SS 02
3. :hhh vs Chris Jericho : FL 00
4. :hhh vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : WM XX
5. :hhh vs Steve Austin : NWO 01

SEE. He has lots of 5 star matches, shame on you Cal


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vs Cactus - Close. Had it at ***** at one point.
Vs HBK - LOLNO :lmao.
Vs Jericho - Close.
Vs HBK Vs Benoit - Kinda close I guess. Got it at ****3/4 but its on the lowest end possible for that rating.
Vs Austin - :lmao NO.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

KingCal said:


> ***** HHH matches:


HHH vs Jericho (Fully Loaded)
HHH vs HBK vs Benoit (Wrestlemania 20)
HHH vs Undertaker HIAC (Wrestlemania 28)
HHH vs Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble)


Other then that, the man has had some of the best matches of the last decade. Great matches with Austin, Rock, Cena, Jericho, Hardy, Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista, Benoit, Flair, Punk, HBK, Umaga, and even a LMS match with Orton. I dont know how anyone can say that he has been mediocre the past decade.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Should be renamed *Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H Discussion Thread* tbh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My ***** matches:

1) Benoit/Angle RR03
2) Austin/Bret WM13
3) Undertaker/HBK BB97
4) Undertaker/HBK WM25
5) Undertaker/Angle NWO 06
6) Bret/Austin SVS96
7) Foley/HHH RR00
8) Bret/Owen WM10
9) Punk/Bryan OTL12
10) Rock/Austin WM17


5 star matches from wrestlers:

Undertaker : 3
Bret Hart : 3
Steve Austin : 3
Shawn Michaels : 2
Kurt Angle : 2
HHH : 1
Chris Benoit : 1
Punk: 1
Bryan: 1
Rock: 1
Foley: 1
Owen: 1

Edit: I like playing this game. First, K1ngofK1ng's 5 star HHH matches and where I have them:

1. vs Cactus Jack : RR 00 (*****, so we're on the same page with this one)
2. vs Shawn Michaels : SS 02 (****1/2)
3. vs Chris Jericho : FL 00 (****1/2)
4. vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : WM XX (****1/2)
5. vs Steve Austin : NWO 01 (****1/4)

And to Sparta101:

Great matches with:

Austin - Yep
Rock - YES!
Cena - Yep
Jericho - Yes, but only one, or two if you count the cell match, which I wouldn't say was a spectacular cell match by the standards back then, and they've had a lot of matches together
Hardy - Yes
Lesnar - No! No! No! NOOOOOOOOOO! :bryan
Undertaker - Yes
Batista - Yes
Benoit - Yes 
Flair - Yes
Punk - No! No! No! No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :bryan
HBK - Yes
Umaga - No
Orton - Yes, but only one and they've had A BAZILLION matches against eachother.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sparta101 said:


> Other then that, the man has had some of the best matches of the last decade. Great matches with Austin, Rock, Cena, Jericho, Hardy, Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista, Benoit, Flair, Punk, HBK, Umaga, and even a LMS match with Orton. I dont know how anyone can say that he has been mediocre the past decade.


Great matches with:

Austin - Nope .
Rock - Yes, a bunch, but that was over a decade ago .
Cena - Yes (2)
Jericho - Over a decade ago .
Hardy - Yes (2)
Lesnar - Yes (1)
Undertaker - Yes (2)
Batista - Yes (1)
Benoit - Yes (1 triple threat)
Flair - Yes (2)
Punk - No.
HBK - Yes (1 triple threat)
Umaga - No.
Orton - Yes (1)

12 great matches in the last decade. Nothing special for a super duper megastar shoved down our throats for over half the decade .


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Big Dave Meltzer has never rated any HHH match five stars. So its official. End of discussion. Triple H has never had a five star match in his life. Cena has though :cena2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cal, you just need to learn how to play the game.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Obis*, you have Angle-Benoit from the Rumble ranked as the greatest match of all time ? That's very bold, glad to see somebody who doesn't just go with what everyone else perceives to be the greatest. I currently have it at my number 8 spot, but when I get there for my WWE Championship project in a few days, I'll see how it holds up :angle

I've only got about 60 odd matches left (mostly from the years 01, 02 and 03) so I'll be done this sooner or later. There has been a few pleasant surprises, but for the most part I'm seeing what I expected anyways. The good thing is that since these are all big time main event matches, they usually have SOME redeeming factor in them, even though some are EXTREMELY underwhelming.

PS: Watching Austin-Taker from OTE 99, Rock-Taker KOTR 99, Austin-Taker FL 99 , and Show-Bossman ARM 99 and that will clue up every pre-00s era match for me. Thoughts on those matches (know the Show-Bossman one is a fun squash essentially) ?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

No Edge 5* matches, *Obis*?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Hunter/Batista > All the matches. End of.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Great matches with:
> 
> Austin - Nope .
> Rock - Yes, a bunch, but that was over a decade ago .
> ...


1. HHH vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania 28)
2. HHH vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania 27)
3. HHH vs Flair (Cyber Sunday)
4. HHH vs Flair (Survivor Series)
5. HHH vs Hardy (No Mercy)
6. HHH vs Hardy (Cyber Sunday)
7. HHH vs HBK vs Benoit (Wrestlemaia 20)
8. HHH vs HBK vs Benoit (Backlash 2004)
9. HHH vs Cena vs Edge (Backlash 2006)
10.HHH vs Orton (No Mercy)
11.HHH vs Orton LMS (RAW)
12.HHH vs Cena (Wrestlemania 22)
13.HHH vs Cena (Night of Champions)
14.HHH vs Cena (RAW before Bragging Rights)
15.HHH vs Jericho (Fully Loaded)
17.HHH vs Batista HIAC (Vengeance)
18.HHH vs HBK (Summerslam)
19.HHH vs Lesnar (Summerslam)
20.HHH vs Umaga (Cyber Sunday)
21.HHH vs Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble)
22.HHH vs Cactus Jack Hell in a Cell
23.HHH vs HBK vs Cena (Survivor Series)
24.HHH vs HBK (RAW 03)
25.HHH vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania 17)

These are all good to great matches in my opinion. He has had a lot more mathes that are in the ***-***1/2 range.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> No Edge 5* matches, *Obis*?


Nope, and only one at ****3/4, and none at ****1/2 (not counting tag team/big multiman matches). I'm a huge mark for the guy, but it's not because of his in-ring work.



> Obis, you have Angle-Benoit from the Rumble ranked as the greatest match of all time ? That's very bold, glad to see somebody who doesn't just go with what everyone else perceives to be the greatest. I currently have it at my number 8 spot, but when I get there for my WWE Championship project in a few days, I'll see how it holds up :angle


Yeah, used to have it at number 2, but you know what, the match plays up everything I love about wrestling to the fullest. I mentioned a day or two ago in some thread (not sure if this one), but I love matches where two guys just go out there and put everything on the line for nothing more than the WWE Championship. Not because they hate each other. Not because there's a girl who they're trying to win over. Just two guys putting on a classic doing the best of the wrestling part in WWE, and telling a fantastic story using nothing but what was available in the match. It was all about the WWE Title and just two men doing everything in their power to prove that they deserve to wear it. I don't even remember if there was much of a story besides Benoit wanting to accomplish his dream and become WWE Champion, but I know back in 2000/2001 there was a lot of one up-manship between the two and they had a whole story about that. But none of those matches touch the RR match between them for me.

It's amazing that the best match of all time for me was at RR03, but also one of the worst matches of all time (imo) took place at that event as well. :hhh


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Torrie Wilson-Dawn Marie ? :hhh


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My 5* matches:

Benoit/Angle - Royal Rumble 2003
Benoit/HHH/Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
Shawn Michaels/Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
The Rock/Stone Cold - Wrestlemania X7

Close to 5* but not quite there:

Undertaker/HHH - Wrestlemania 28 (need to rewatch)
Bret Hart/Stone Cold - Wrestlemania 13
The Rock/Chris Benoit - Fully Loaded 2000
HHH/Stone Cold - No Way Out 2001
Batista/HHH - Vengeance 2005

I used to have Punk/Cena MITB at 5* too but then I rewatched it and it was not nearly as enjoyable as first time around. Still great and ****1/2 but if you missed it live, chances are you wont enjoy it as much.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Torrie Wilson-Dawn Marie ? :hhh


lol. I don't remember that match even happening.

But was that when they did the thing with the Torrie's dad? Or was that something else?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH/Steiner was entertaining for all the wrong reasons lol. I'm just glad HHH escaped that thing alive. Steiner almost dropped him on his fucking head at one point.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes , Dawn wanted to sleep with Torrie so for some reason she married Torrie's dad and fucked him to death on the honeymoon. Now, I don't fully understand how that would lead Torrie to sleep with Dawn, but what the fuck do I know ?

The more I watch Punk-Cena, the more I find myself in love with it due to the deep character sketching throughout the match that I notice more and more of every watch. I know how most people like to ALWAYS put the past over the present, but it's a top 10 WWF/WWE match of all time from where I sit.

In the middle of Rock-Taker from KOTR 99. Austin-Taker from OTE SUCKED. From what I remember, this match is MEH while I liked Austin-Taker FL last time I checked.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

After watching both HHH/Taker Mania 27 and Punk/Cena MITB 11 back to back a while ago, I came to a firm decision that Punk/Cena is the 2011 MOTY with HHH/Taker right behind it. Punk/Cena was lightning in a bottle. Hopefully they can recreate some of that magic at NOC. I'm still undecided about whether or not to buy it though. We'll see.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I just love 'Mania 27 between 'Taker and Hunter. Like two times more than 'Mania 28 or Punk/Cena.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Two times more lol? I love them all. Mania 28 > Punk/Cena > Mania 27 if I had to rank them but they're all awesome sauce and I'd happily watch either one over and over again.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Feel 'Mania 27 was absolutely beastly stuff. The action was incredible. It would be 27 > Punk/Cena > 28 for me.

I have 27 at 5-stars. The two are a notch below.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

As long as I live I'll never forget that Tombstone kickout by Taker lol. That stadium was pure hysteria when it happened. Absolute mad and incredible feeling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena/Punk is easily the MOTY for 2011. After that, I'd go for Orton/Christian OTL and then Taker/HHH.

And yes, 28 > Punk/Cena > 27.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't even have Taker/HHH WM27 in my top 10 matches of the year.  Punk/Cena MITB is my MOTY 2011 with Orton/Christian OTL and Ss close behind.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Punk OLT 2012 = Undertaker/HHH WM 28 > Undertaker/HHH WM 27 = Punk/Cena MITB 2011

Can't decide which is the best for each year lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/HHH for this year. Cena/Punk for last year. 

Mania 28 > Punk/Cena > Mania 27 > Punk/Bryan imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Punk/Cena > Punk/Bryan = WM 28 > WM 27


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Cena MITB > Punk/Bryan OTL > Wrestlemania XXVII > Wrestlemania XXVIII HIAC

*K1ngofK1ngs Top 30 Matches of 2011*

1. John Cena vs CM Punk MITB 11 : *******
2. Triple H vs The Undertaker WM XXVII : ***** 3/4*
3. John Cena vs CM Punk SS 11 : ***** 1/2*
4. Randy Orton vs Christian SS 11 : ***** 1/4*
5. Randy Orton vs Christian OTL 11 : ***** 1/4*
6. John Cena vs CM Punk RAW Aug 11 : ******
7. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs The Miz TLC 11 : ******
8. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio SS 11 : ******
9. SD MITB Ladder Match MITB 11 : ******
10. CM Punk vs Triple H NOC 11 : ******
11. SD Elimination Chamber Match : ******
12. John Cena vs Rey Mysterio RAW Aug 11 : **** 3/4*
13. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio CP 11 : **** 3/4*
14. RAW Elimination Chamber Match : **** 3/4*
15. The Miz vs John Morrison RAW Jan 11 : **** 3/4*
16. Christian vs Alberto Del Rio ER 11 : **** 3/4*
17. Edge vs Dolph Ziggler RR 11 : **** 3/4*
18. Randy Orton vs CM Punk WM XXVII : **** 1/2*
19. CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler RAW Nov 11 : **** 1/2*
20. Miz/Truth/Del Rio vs Morrison/Mysterio/Kofi SS 11 : **** 1/2*
21. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes SD NOV 11 : **** 1/2*
22. The Big Show vs Mark Henry VEN 11 : **** 1/2*
23. Edge vs Alberto Del Rio WM XXVII : **** 1/2*
24. Wade Barrett vs Daniel Bryan SS 11 : **** 1/2*
25. RAW MITB Ladder Match MITB 11 : **** 1/2*
26. Randy Orton vs Christian MITB 11 : **** 1/2*
27. Randy Orton vs CM Punk ER 11 : **** 1/2*
28. Randy Orton vs Christian SD Sep 11 : **** 1/2*
29. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio RAW JN 11 : **** 1/2*
30. Randy Orton vs Christian CP 11 : **** 1/2*

2011 was AWESOME. 

Seriously, it was one of my favourite years of all time match wise, with SO many matches that were ****+* that it's kind of insane. I could honestly make a top 50 list and I'd still be cranking out Three Star matches. I don't think ANYBODY agrees with me at all, but I've absolutely adored these last 2 years in wrestling, as I think 2011 and 2012 are/have been better (match wise anyways) than any year since MAYBE 2000. Then again, you're probably all going to think I'm insane for saying that


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think I could name 10 matches from 2011 never mind 30 lol. That's why I tend to stick to a top 5ish. Only the really good shit sticks in my head.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Punk/Cena > HHH/Undertaker

I don't care what anybody tells me, a better build up for a match makes the match better. The build-up for Cena/Punk was 1,000x better than the AWFUL build-up for Taker/Trips. Also Cena/Punk had MULTIPLE believable false finishes, Trips/Taker had one.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Should be renamed *Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H Discussion Thread* tbh.


Kurt Angle should probably be added too. He's gets about as much dumping on if not more than Hunter.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping On Discussion Thread*



Coolquip said:


> Punk/Cena > HHH/Undertaker
> 
> I don't care what anybody tells me, a better build up for a match makes the match better. The build-up for Cena/Punk was 1,000x better than the AWFUL build-up for Taker/Trips. Also Cena/Punk had MULTIPLE believable false finishes, Trips/Taker had one.


I read that in Punk's voice to match your sig picture and I believe you. Respect.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - Armageddon '07 - ****
Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy '08 - ****1/2
Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - Cyber Sunday '08 - ****1/4
Triple H vs Jeff Hardy vs Edge - Armageddon '08 - ****1/4

MY GAWD. I love the No Mercy match more and more every time I watch it. Just such an epic battle. Was thinking of pushing it up to ****3/4, tbh.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Starbuck said:


> *Official DVD/Match/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping On Discussion Thread*


Fixed because no-one talks about Big Show matches in here :side:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

WM 27 - HHH/Undertaker - ***3/4
WM 28 - HHH/Undertaker - ****1/4

Punk/Cena - MITB - *****
Punk/Cena - SS - ****1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

:lmao at the thread title change. Who the fuck did that? Lol.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

Epic Thread name is epic.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

I'll take all the credit for it lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

Top 10 MOTY 2011:

****1/2
1) Punk/Cena MITB
2) Orton/Christian OTL
3) Orton/Christian SS
****1/4
4) WHC EC
5) Punk/Cena SS
6) Christian/Del Rio ER
****
7) Edge/Ziggler RR
8) Punk/Ziggler Raw November
9) Punk/Cena Raw August/September (can't remember date)
10) SD MITB

Now that I think about it, Taker/HHH might not even make my top 20. I'll post 11-20 when I get home and see. It would even surprise me to not have it in my top 20.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

*Top 10 PPV Matches Of 2011 IMO*

1) CM Punk v John Cena (Money In The Bank) = *****
2) Triple H v Undertaker (Wrestlemania) = ****1/2
3) Randy Orton v Christian (Over The Limit) = ****1/2
4) CM Punk v John Cena (Summerslam) = ****1/4
5) Randy Orton v Christian (Summerslam) = ****1/4
6) SD MITB Ladder Match (Money In The Bank) = ****1/4
7) SD Elimination Chamber Match (Elimination Chamber) = ****1/4
8) Mark Henry v Randy Orton (Night of Champions) = ****
9) CM Punk v Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) = ***3/4
10) Christian v Alberto Del Rio (Extreme Rules) = ***3/4

Great year for PPV matches.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

2011 faves!

-Edge/Ziggler RR
-SD 2011 Chamber
-Edge/Del Rio Wrestlemania
-Orton/Christian Summerslam
-Orton/Rhodes Smackdown


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*



greendayedgehead said:


> 2011 faves!
> 
> -Edge/Ziggler RR
> -SD 2011 Chamber
> ...


How about Taker/HHH at WM or Punk/Cena at MITB?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

My WWE five star list in no order

Cena V Punk MITB
HBK V Taker WM 25 
Austin V Rock WM 17

Pretty much it. Got alot of ****3/4 matches but these three matches are the only perfect bouts for me in the companys history (I'm alot more of a storytelling guy then a workrate/MOVEZ! guy)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

Five stars for me:

Punk/Cena - MITB
Umaga/Cena - RR '07
HBK/Taker - WM 26
HBK/Taker - Bad Blood '97
CAGE OF DEATH - DBD IV
Danielson/KENTA - GBH V Night 2
AJ/Daniels/Joe - Unbreakable '05
Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM 20
Bret/Bulldog - SS '92
HBK/Jericho - WM XIX
Austin/Hart - WM 13
Guerrero/Lesnar - NWO '04

And although it isn't some amazing match, I get ***** worth of enjoyment out of Punk/Cabana in Punk's' final match. The emotion is incredible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

*****

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 1997
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts II 1986
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - World Wide Wrestling 1987
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 1989
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 1989
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 2010
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified 2006
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 1989
Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 1994
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 1997
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 2009
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 1991
Royal Rumble Match 1992
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2003
The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 2002
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993

In order from best to "worst" .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*



Obis said:


> Top 10 MOTY 2011:
> 
> ****1/2
> 1) Punk/Cena MITB
> ...


So about that 11-20:

****
11) Cena/Mysterio Raw
12) Barrett/Bryan SS
***3/4
13) Miz/Morrison Raw Jan 3
14) Henry/Show Vengeance
15) Punk/Cena Raw (in January... I think. The one where Punk gets Cena DQ'd by having Ryan attack him)
16) Punk/Del Rio SVS
17) Punk/Cena/Del Rio HIAC
18) Punk/Miz/Del Rio TLC
19) Punk/Mysterio CP
20) WWE Title #1 Contender EC

... *rolls up sleeves* this is gonna be a long day. I will not rest until I find where I have Taker/HHH!

21) Punk/Mysterio/Del Rio Raw June
22) Riley/Rey vs. Miz/Swagger Raw
23) Edge/Kane Jan 7 LMS
24) Orton/Rhodes SD
***1/2
25) Punk/Orton WM27
*26) Taker/HHH WM27*
27) Edge/Del Rio WM27
28) Henry/Orton NOC
29) Orton/Christian MITB
30) Rhodes/Mysterio WM27

Okay, so number 26! Made top 30 at least. :$


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*



andersonasshole900 said:


> How about Taker/HHH at WM or Punk/Cena at MITB?


Truth? I never watched HHH/Undertaker II and I've only seen Punk/Cena live the once and the memory of it is so awesome I don't actually want to go over it. I suppose it would be considered a favourite because I was all over the place for it, but I also never felt right saying so because my memory of the actual match is pretty hazy, and pretty much the feelings/reactions of the angle itself is what makes me like it so much. That's also why I still have no definitive rating for it.

But those four (Edge/Del Rio was good but I don't like it as much as the other four) matches I listed are ones from 2011 that I loved and watched over a few times and still loved. I also need to rewatch Christian/Berto Extreme Rules because I remember quite liking that too.

WWE 5* matches (minus the ones I need to rewatch)
Benoit v Jericho Royal Rumble 2001
Benoit v HHH v HBK Wrestlemania XX
TLC I
Benoit + Angle v Mysterio + Edge No Mercy 2002

I need to rewatch Undertaker v HBK streak matches and the NM tag rematch as well as a bunch of other SD6 stuff. I thought I had a lot more matches at five stars than this. I'm probably forgetting.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

Now I'm finished with all the 2003 PPVs!

*Armageddon 2003:*

Booker T vs Mark Henry - **
RVD vs Randy Orton - ***3/4
Chris Jericho/Christian vs Trish Stratus/Lita - **1/2
Shawn Michaels vs Batista - ***1/4
Tag Team Turmoil - ***
Molly Holly vs Ivory - *1/2
Goldberg vs HHH vs Kane - ***1/2

Overall: **1/2 out of *****

*2003 PPV Ranking:*
1. Wrestlemania XIX
2. Survivor Series
3. SummerSlam
4. Vengeance
5. Backlash
6. No Mercy
7. Royal Rumble
8. Unforgiven
9. Armageddon
10. Judgement Day
11. No Way Out
12. Bad Blood

*Best PPV Matches of 2003:*
1. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble
2. The Rock vs Stone Cold - Wrestlemania XIX
3. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam
4. Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit - Vengeance
5. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin - Survivor Series


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

*Re: Official DVD/Match/Show/Triple H & Kurt Angle Dumping Discussion Thread*

You know everybody says the attitude era was Austin Vs Rock era but actually it seemed to be Austin VS Taker era.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

First half was Austin/McMahon with Austin/Taker being the big feud within that feud, well, it was for 1998-1999. The second half was a variety of things with Rock being the center of it, leading to Rock/Austin WM17.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

2003 was a good year for wrestling. I must say, though, Angle/Lesnar at Mania was a better match than Rock/Austin. I struggle to get into it, but I also love Angle/Lesnar SS. They are probably two of the most fun guys for me to watch work together.

A lot of 5 star matches around here. I think I only have 3:

Benoit.HHH.HBK, WM XX
Austin.Bret, Mania 13
Austin.Rock, Mania 17

Maybe I'd throw in Rey/Eddie HH 97


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What do you guys prefer? Bryan/Punk OTL or Punk/Cena MITB?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Punk/Cena MITB personally, the wrestling was obviously better in Punk/Bryan OTL, but the emotion, crowd reaction, storyline, storytelling and booking for Punk/Cena was practically perfect, and I can personally look past the botches which some can't.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just rewatched one of my favourite PPVs of all time, and definitely one of the top 3 single-brand PPVs of all time - *Vengeance 2003*

*Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit:* ****
*Jamie Noble vs. Billy Gunn:* **
*APA Bar Room Brawl:* ** 1/2
*The World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Billy Kidman and Rey Mysterio:* ****
*Sable vs. Stephanie:* Skipped over
*The Undertaker vs. John Cena:* *** 3/4
*Vince McMahon vs. Zach Gowen:* *** 1/2 A lot of fun, tbh
*Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle:* **** 3/4 - One of my favourite matches, and my second favourite triple threat of all time


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Cena > Punk/Bryan

Both are their respective MOTY's IMO, but like SMIG said... Punk/Cena is practically THE perfect main event of a hot show. The atmosphere is otherwordly, the workrate is fantastic (even for CENA standards) , and the character development of both Punk and Cena is so tremendous and deep it's actually amazing. 

Punk/Bryan might be the better WRESTLING match, but as an experience in itself I would give the BIG nod to Punk/Cena. Both would fall in my top 30 matches of all time (Punk/Cena is actually in my top 10), despite only occurring within the past year. The beautiful thing about 2011 and 2012 in contrast to 2009 and 2010, is that the MOTY is left completely up to the person who watches. 2009/2010 had the HBK/Taker series that was OBVIOUSLY MOTY in both years , but now we have the whole HHH/Taker vs Punk Cena debate , and this year it's even MORE of a wide open race (I can think of 7 matches that you can give a strong argument for MOTY honours).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Punk OLT or Punk/Cena MITB? DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE!

Well ok. Cena/Punk is overall the better of the two in terms of build up, atmosphere, seeming importance at the time (HHH getting involved, Del Rio winning the belt among other things killed any importance it should have had in the end)... but I'd sooner watch Bryan/Punk again. Then again I'd say Bryan/Punk is the better MATCH, with Punk/Cena being better at everything else and still having a great match to boot. I love em both. Punk/Bryan more. Doesn't mean its better though. So my overall decision is the same as HHH's retirement announcement on Raw this week: I don't know.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What do you guys prefer? Bryan/Punk OTL or Punk/Cena MITB?


Punk/Bryan easily. Punk/Cena had everything going for it and they delivered. Punk/Bryan had nothing going into it and they delivered ten-fold that. Punk/Bryan got the crowd engaged on NOTHING except their prior known wrestling skills and perhaps little matches on Raw/SD. The atmosphere was fantastic. What Punk/Cena had over Punk/Bryan was the fact Punk/Cena had an actual storyline, and it happened to be one of if not the best and hottest storylines in the last decade. But when it comes to just the matches, it's easily Punk/Bryan. It was a masterpiece of a match. Punk/Cena was a masterpiece of a storyline combo'd with a match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Just rewatched one of my favourite PPVs of all time, and definitely one of the top 3 single-brand PPVs of all time - *Vengeance 2003*
> 
> *Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit:* ****
> *Jamie Noble vs. Billy Gunn:* **
> ...


Best SmackDown exclusive PPV IMO.

And give me Punk vs. Bryan over Punk vs. Cena.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What do you guys prefer? Bryan/Punk OTL or Punk/Cena MITB?


Both are 4 stars imo, but Punk/Cena is better.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Punk/Cena by a mile. Punk vs. Bryan is great and all but there is big similarities with them and how they wrestle. With Cena and Punk, they couldn't be more different. Punk was different from Cena in size, look, offense, how they wrestle, and yet they just complimented each other so much and that is what makes the best matches. Like when the cerebral wrestler CM Punk fought stiff Samoa Joe or when the technician Bret Hart faced the Brawler in Steve Austin. Where Punk has strikes, Cena did not. Where Cena had power, Punk couldn't contend. Where Punk had his high flying, Cena had experience. It was one of the truly great matches in pro wrassling. 

Even the botches made sense! Punk crossbodying Cena's knees didn't look to great but when he actually performs the move correctly, he gets caught by Cena like a small child. John Cena's body language and how he reacted to things were phenomenal. He felt like a guy who has been on top for years(Which he has) and nearly all his moves felt as if he dictated them or he just put them in the right place. It kinda seemed as if he was cool and collected. As if he knew what to do and when to do it. This one of the first times we had ever seen Cena wrestle like that or take that kinda role in a match. It didn't feel like Cena was fighting back at Punk but Punk was fighting back against Cena(If that makes any sense).

Punk didn't seem as cool as Cena did in the latter part and felt incredibly desperate in all of his offense. He was as underdog as one could get with his massive amount of selling(And what great selling it was) and having to work himself out of the several predicaments that Cena had put him in. He had got put through the shredder with Cena. Punk felt as if he wanted to win and needed to win. You can tell the difference between both guys in that match in how Punk would keep climbing to get out of that hole that Cena kept burying. I love the part nearly towards the end when Punk has to hit Cena with everything he has got just so Cena doesn't obliterate his ass with a avalanche AA. When he takes off his knee pad to get as much damage on Cena as he can get and seeing him hobble towards Cena to deliver the shining knee is just telling of the tale of how deep Punk has been in the hole. The shining grace in the match is when the GTS connects and you can just see everything Punk has worked for just fall right out of his hands when Cena falls out of the ring. I cannot explore more into detail about how much better Punk/Cena was than Punk/Bryan.

The OTL is a clinic but I'll take that roller coaster over it any day.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Cena - *****
Punk/Bryan - ****3/4

I'd say Punk/Cena but you can't go wrong.

No Way Out 2006
CW Open - ***1/4
Lashley/JBL - ***
Tatanka/Hardy vs MNM - ***1/4
Benoit/Booker - ***3/4
Mysterio/Orton - ****1/2
Taker/Angle - ****3/4

Awesome show.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Punk/Cena is the epitome of what wrestling should be.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Ratings from Foley's Set That Are ***+

Cactus Jack vs. Big Van Vader - ***
Cactus Jack vs. Mikey Whipwreck - ***3/4
Cactus Jack vs. Sting - ****
Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
Cactus Jack vs. Triple H - ***1/2
Dude Love vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - ****1/4
Mankind vs. The Undertaker - ****1/4
Cactus Jack vs. Triple H - ****1/2
Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton - ****1/4
Mick Foley vs. Edge - ****
Mick Foley and Edge vs. Terry Funk and Tommy Dreamer - ***1/2
Mick Foley vs. Ric Flair - ***1/4

A great DVD collection, especially Disk 2 and the bonus disk.


----------



## ShinyaNaKano56 (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm looking for a Tagged Classics DVD, I'm talking about "Battle Royal At The Albert Hall & UK Rampage 1991 DVD" if anyone has one for sale i'd be happy to buy it!


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Punk/Cena was just an amazing experience, not just a wrestling match. Punk/Bryan was an amazing wrestling match, but the Cena match just had the emotion and the insane drama to push it over the edge. I have both rated at ****1/2 though, for different reasons.

I actually prefer Punk/Cena from Summerslam over both of them though. That match didn't have the amount of drama as the MITB match, but it still had it in spades, and the match itself was actually perfectly wrestled with a great story to boot and a great crowd. I adore that match.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I’ve finally decided to start my own personal project and cover the NOC PPV’s. I thought I can start on a small project (however this review is pretty long) and eventually work my way up like K1ngofK1ngs has. Then after the coming NOC PPV in three weeks, I’ll rank my top 10 matches for the events history and also the most overrated and underrated matches, as well as the overall MVP of the PPV’s history. 

*Vengeance: Night of Champions 2007*

_World Tag Team Championship: Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch(c) vs The Hardy Boyz_

This was a fun little opener here, to say the crowd was hot for the Hardy’s would be an understatement. I enjoyed Cade & Murdoch as a tag team, and they always seemed to gel well with the Hardy’s and create some good matches. I think this one however was probably the weakest of the trilogy they had in 2007, as im personally a fan of their Backlash and Judgement Day matches. This one definitely could have benefitted from a more delayed hot tag, Cade and Murdoch worked on Matt’s leg for about 2 minutes, and as soon as he fought back he got the hot tag to Jeff. I much would have preferred them to cut the tag off and delay it. It’s amazing though how much more over Jeff was to Matt it’s ridiculous. I love the ending however, Cade & Murdoch were trying to act like babyfaces the whole match, but in the end their heel tactics got them the victory. Pretty good opener here, that would of benefitted with another 5 minutes.

*** 3/4*

_Cruiserweight Championship: Chavo Guerrero (c) vs Jimmy Wang Yang_

Firstly, god I miss JBL on commentary. The guy is one of my favourite colour commentators ever, and im begging him to come back to the announce table for Smackdown. I liked Jimmy Wang Yang, something about an Asian ******* amused me. This was a good match and if I could sum it up in 1 word, Underrated. The turnbuckle hip toss was nasty especially the way Jimmy landed on his neck when he hit the mat. I loved Chavo in this match, as soon as he delivered the hip toss, he focused all his moves on the back, and how every time Jimmy went up top he cut him off. The ending was worth probably worth ¼* when Chavo hits the frog Splash to the back of Jimmy, that’s great psychology. These are some of the reasons why I would enjoy the cruiserweight title to come back, this was great stuff. 

***** 

_Vacant ECW Championship: CM Punk vs Johnny Nitro_

The first thing I have to get off my chest, this is probably the hardest match for me to watch ever, the chants of WE WANT BENOIT nearly killed me to think what he was doing at this time, or what he just done. I have friends who can’t even watch a match of his, I still can fortunately and they ask me all the time “How can you?” Although I’ll never be able to forgive the things he did, I choose to remember him as the performer who gave us 20 years of his life, not the man he was in his final hour. 

To the match though, if you can silence out the constant Benoit chants and even the few boring chants this was a solid match. The kicks from Punk to Nitro were vicious and stiff, as they played up Punks Muay Thai background. The finish was really anticlimactic, with no one really reacting at all to pretty much any of Nitros offense. This wasn’t a bad match, but I feel especially bad for Nitro this was the biggest win of his career, but it will never be remembered as this turned out to be one of the darkest days in professional wrestling. 

*** 1/4*

_Intercontinental Championship: Santino Marella(c) vs Umaga_

God this was bad, I enjoyed Umaga as a performer, but this match was just plain dumb. No one gave Santino a snowballs chance against Umaga, as he just physical dominated him the entire match. The match went for about 4 minutes and I swear Umaga had a nerve hold on for half that. I don’t know if they were playing up that Umaga was a thick headed islander, but the ending was just stupid after all that Umaga throws Santino in the corner and just punches him to he gets DQ’ed. The best part of this segment was the beatdown Umaga handed out to Santino and the vocal males chanted for Umaga. This was just plain weird and bad.

*1/4**

_United States Championship: MVP(c) vs Ric Flair_ 

This was a solid match, nothing more and nothing less. This was a pretty much your formula Ric Flair match at the time, plenty of chops, strutting and chop blocks. JBL’s commentary was golden also with his man crush on MVP, and how he is the Ric Flair of the present. The finish was as to be expected, MVP poked Flair in the eye and hits the playmaker for the 3 count. I enjoyed this, Flair was charismatic as usual and MVP played his heel role well.

*** 1/4*

_WWE Tag Team Championship: Deuce & Domino(c) vs Jimmy Snuka & SGT. Slaughter_

This was billed as a special attraction match, but quite honestly this was the furthest thing from special. First off Snuka was horrible, I know his a legend but my god was he bad. Domino at one point went to leapfrog him and he was so slow when Domino landed Snukas head was under him :lol. On the other hand Slaughter was pretty good in this, and really didn’t look out of place at all. This wasn’t a chore to sit through as it is always good to see legends, but this wasn’t good by any stretch, props again to Slaughter. 

** 1/4*

_World Heavyweight Championship: Edge(c) vs Batista Last Chance match_

To me personally this was the Sheamus/Del Rio feud from 2007, meaning I didn’t have much interest at all in both guys at the time and their feud for that matter. I was just hoping that as competent workers they could generate some quality matches. But just like Sheamus and Del Rio their first two matches didn’t blow my mind. This was the blow off match, as it was Batista’s last chance at the title as long as Edge was champion. I was pleasantly surprised with this match, it was slow for the first half then the paced started to pick up and it got better and better and actually had some good sequences. Edge attacked the shoulder of Batista for most of the match and I thought Batista sold it quite well which gets big marks from a person like me. This had a hot finish, until Edge venting in frustration from unable to keep the animal down low blows him for the DQ. Teddy comes out and restarts the match and if Edge gets DQ’ed he loses the title. Nice nearfall with Batista kicking out of the spear. The finish comes with Batista giving Edge a huge Batista bomb on the floor and rolls Edge into the ring but he was unable to roll into the ring by the 10. It might seem like a crappy finish, but I liked it Edge was destroyed and was down, but he survived like good heels do. This was surprisingly good without a doubt there best match of the trilogy, and probably my MOTN.

**** 1/2*

_Women’s Championship: Melina(c) vs Candice Michelle_

Nothing more to say here then, it’s just your normal divas title match, with Candice Michelle winning her first Women’s title.

***

_WWE Championship: John Cena(c) vs Mick Foley vs Randy Orton vs King Booker vs Bobby Lashley Championship Challenge_

I loved the video package to this one with every participant explaining what a champion is, it really gave this match a special feel. It was good to see Mick inside the squared circle again as he is one of my favourites ever, but it was painfully obvious that he was taking the pinfall here to keep the other four guys strong, and potentially give Cena an out if he was too lose. This was a fun match and surprisingly only went for 10 minutes, as you were to expect they packed a lot of action in this short time. Everyone seemed to get about the same time in control of the match, and it was obvious they were building up to the epic face showdown of Cena/Lashley. Overall a fun match, with another 5 minutes would have easily taken MOTN.

**** 1/4*

_Thoughts_ 

This was one of the darkest days in the history of professional wrestling, and seemingly this PPV is truly forgotten about. It felt like everything had a dark atmosphere around it, although that might just be me. Really nothing to special on this card though, the main event was fun and Edge/Batista was quite good. I would have liked to see the opening 2 matches and the main event get a little longer time and this would have probably been a good PPV. I remembered how psyched I was too see the dream match of Benoit/Punk and I had no doubt about it, that they would steal the show. Obviously one of those scenarios of what could have been, without the Benoit tragedy. Not a great night for WWE, obviously knowing now, but the main events are probably worth a look. 

*Rating: 5.5/10*

I should have my next review up in 2-3 days, as im off to the WWE house show over here in Australia tomorrow. Leave me your feedback or your star ratings on the PPV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Great review SMIG, I'll throw in my stars once I get back home in a few hours. On a side note, I just watched SCSA vs Undertaker from JD 2001, and honestly I don't know where it gets it's critics from. It's a GREAT match with some fantastic brawling all over the place, a great ending, and the psychology of how Austin basically chops the undertaker down is fantastic . The best match I've ever seen between those two , legit. Can't wait to get off work so I can watch more Austin in 2001 for my wwf/wwe championship match project. By the way.... Taker vs Austin from JD 01 ? ******


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Great review SMIG, I'll throw in my stars once I get back home in a few hours. On a side note, I just watched SCSA vs Undertaker from JD 2001, and honestly I don't know where it gets it's critics from. It's a GREAT match with some fantastic brawling all over the place, a great ending, and the psychology of how Austin basically chops the undertaker down is fantastic . The best match I've ever seen between those two , legit. Can't wait to get off work so I can watch more Austin in 2001 for my wwf/wwe championship match project. By the way.... Taker vs Austin from JD 01 ? ******


Thanks king, bed is calling me now over here in Australia. But looking forward to your star ratings when I decide to wake up tomorrow.

And I completely agree with you about Austin/taker JD 01, it's probably my favourite match of theirs just a fabulous attitude era brawl from what I remember I think I had it at **** 3/4- *****


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Could someone give me thoughts on Armageddon 2002, the Three Stages of Hell match. I remember back in 2002 watching it as a ten year old and thinking this was the best thing ever (a young mark  ) but I haven't watched it since, is it up to par with the Austin/HHH one? 

Thoughts on the PPV as a whole too?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TBG, there bastards are going to try and convince you that the 3soh match is terrible, but gladly you'll hear from me first ; it's a fun, fun match between two all time greats that never gets boring at all. Sure it has it's flaws of course, but that doesn't take away from the awesomeness , I give it **** 3/4* . On a side note, Punk/Cena from summer slam 2011 is my favorite match since taker-hbk wrestle mania 25, and a top 10 favorite for me EVER.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Bad Guy said:


> Could someone give me thoughts on Armageddon 2002, the Three Stages of Hell match. I remember back in 2002 watching it as a ten year old and thinking this was the best thing ever (a young mark  ) but I haven't watched it since, *is it up to par with the Austin/HHH one?*


Surprisingly, yes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Surprisingly, yes.


:lmao

Kinda agree, except I'd put the Austin/HHH above HHH/HBK. Both aren't good though .


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

The Bad Guy said:


> Could someone give me thoughts on Armageddon 2002, the Three Stages of Hell match. I remember back in 2002 watching it as a ten year old and thinking this was the best thing ever (a young mark  ) but I haven't watched it since, is it up to par with the Austin/HHH one?
> 
> Thoughts on the PPV as a whole too?


You got opinions from one pack... My opinion: it's not even close. Hunter/Michaels is terrible. Hunter/Austin is amazing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally finished watching Shawn Michaels vs HHH from the Raw episode of 29 December 2003. And what that means, is also that I have officially finished watching every single Raw, Smackdown and PPV from 2003!!! (skipped Heat & Velocity but they didn't matter anyways, right?)

Since I did a best PPV matches list, here's a list of the 10 best TV matches for the year:

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Ironman) - ****1/2
Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4
HHH vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - ****
Undertaker vs John Cena - ****
Chris Benoit vs John Cena - ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs Rey Mysterio - ***3/4
RVD vs Christian (Ladder Match) - ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker vs Big Show - ***1/2
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2

Overall, it was a hell of a year with Smackdown specially being on fire. Lots of great moments and a year I'd trade any of the years from 2007-present for in a heartbeat.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I always forget about that RVD/Christian match but it's really entertaining.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep, a great match. On the HBK/HHH match, I really don't understand the finish. Here, they counted the "both shoulders were down" thing to screw Shawn out of the title but in Armageddon, he beat Batista with the exact same pin.

Some matches that missed the cut:
Tajiri/Rey Mysterio
Ric Flair/HHH
The Rock/Hurricane (Hollywood Rock was so awesome!)
Angle/Benoit (RR rematch where Benoit's eye started bleeding after taking a bad bump into the turnbuckle. Came out the next week looking like the Terminator.)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this on another forum:



> Apparently WWE sent a survey out recently gauging interest in proposed future releases. Here was the list -
> 
> Best of WCW Great American Bash
> Best of WCW Nitro Volume 2
> ...


Yes please - release the 1992 one at least FFS!!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

> Best of WCW Great American Bash
> Best of WCW Nitro Volume 2
> Best of WCW War Games
> Raw 20th Anniversary Box Set
> ...


Just give me these four... PLEASE LORD.... Then I'll forgive you for putting out Rock vs Cena :yes


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do wonder what would be on a Bret Hart Unreleased set tbh, maybe something from Japan if they can.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

C'mon.....Austin/HHH is no where near as unbelievably shitty as Michaels/HHH.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I do wonder what would be on a Bret Hart Unreleased set tbh, maybe something from Japan if they can.


They did with Shawn vs Bret I think.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Finally finished watching Shawn Michaels vs HHH from the Raw episode of 29 December 2003. And what that means, is also that I have officially finished watching every single Raw, Smackdown and PPV from 2003!!! (skipped Heat & Velocity but they didn't matter anyways, right?)
> 
> Since I did a best PPV matches list, here's a list of the 10 best TV matches for the year:
> 
> ...


Hehe, nice ratings and yeah, SD was awesome in 2003. It's the best brand split year imo from an all around perspective. For SD only though, as Raw was shit, but it sounds like a pretty neat idea. I'd totally go back and watch all the episodes of 2003 SD. 

However I will say, I also really loved SD in 08 (granted, with the two guys that main evented 8 months of the year and them being my two favorites of all time, I suppose that's to be expected  ).

As far as TV matches for 03, I can't remember a lot, but here would be my top 3:

1) Lesnar/Angle Ironman ****3/4
2) Taker/Angle Two weeks (?) before ironman ****3/4
3) HBK/HHH last Raw in 03 ****1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

No way they should have any Bret from Japan on any set. He was boring as piss. It'd be cool they could include a full Stampede match or two, and there's a match with Buzz Sawyer from Georgia in 1979 where they both just work all technically-ish which is good. They should also have the Terry Funk brawl from 2000 where Bret gets stuck in a trolley or whatever. And that South Africa match with Austin.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Obis said:


> Hehe, nice ratings and yeah, SD was awesome in 2003. It's the best brand split year imo from an all around perspective. For SD only though, as Raw was shit, but it sounds like a pretty neat idea. I'd totally go back and watch all the episodes of 2003 SD.


Raw was not that bad. The Rock had some great stuff when he was around from the night after No Way Out until Backlash (and the two unexpected appearances afterwards where he magically turned face!) but the rest of it was boring. Then after Backlash, shit was booooring until around SummerSlam time and Kane's unmasking. I almost slept through most Raw episodes around May-June time with Kevin Nash being in the main event. Things picked up for the last half of the year, though. Smackdown also started slippin' a little bit after Backlash until Kurt Angle returned from his injury around Vengeance time but since that point, it was awesome all the way until the end of the year.

Now I'm unsure about whether I should continue onto 2004 all the way until Wrestlemania 25 which is where I'm planning to stop or put it on hold and go back to 1997-2002 and watch those full years instead before I continue where I left off from the end of 2003.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Maybe we can finally get the Flair-Hart 60 minute Ironman match from the Boston Garden in January 93, that would be SEX :flair 

*WWE Championship PPV Matches : 1996*

Bret Hart vs The Undertaker RR 96 : **** 1/4*
Bret Hart vs Diesel IYH 6 : **** *
Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels WM XII : **** 1/4*
Shawn Michaels vs Diesel IYH 7 : ******
Shawn Michaels vs The British Bulldog IYH 8 : *****
Shawn Michaels vs The British Bulldog KOTR 96 : **** 3/4*
Shawn Michaels vs Vader SS 96 : ***** 1/4*
Shawn Michaels vs Mankind IYH 10 : ***** 3/4*
Shawn Michaels vs Sid SS 96 : ******
Sid vs Bret Hart IYH 12 : **** 1/4*

I don't know WHAT the fuck was up with Bret in early 96, as he wrestled some pretty good but pretty non BRET-ISH matches. The pace in his match vs The Undertaker at the Royal Rumble, as well as the Steel Cage match vs Diesel, were pretty bad. Despite bad pacing issues, I thought these matches had some great psychology and were generally GOOD contests. The match with Taker is EASILY the worst of their WWE Championship series (we'll get to the classics next year) , while his match with Diesel in the cage was also their worst match together as well. Maybe Bret was just unmotivated, since he knew he was just a placeholder for another babyface and that he was going to be the number 2/3 face of the company now behind Shawn and MAYBE Taker, just my two cents. It seemed as if even though Bret was performing all of his moves crisply and selling very well, he didn't want to put any EMOTION behind his performances, I believe that it hurt the first two.

The Ironman match.... What can I possibly say that hasn't already been said about it ? The wrestling is there, but with bad pacing and psychology that doesn't follow through (a staple in ALL Bret vs Shawn matches for some reason) , this one doesn't have a prayer to go down in my mind as an all time classic. Sure we get the all time great moment, and the last 5-10 minutes of this is awesome, but that doesn't mean that it can justify the first 30-40 minutes of utter bullshit psychology flaws and moves that don't go anywhere. Why can't two of perhaps the greatest wrestlers ever in the North American style work a classic match together ? That always blew my mind. Anyways, not as bad or good as you would think, so I'm choosing the middle ground here when I rate this. The second worst ironman match that I've ever seen (Cena-Orton takes that cake) , but that really isn't an insult in itself.

Now we get to one of my favourite WWF title reigns of all time ; HBK's first go around with the belt. Sure the commentary on his matches with the unwarranted and possibly homoerotic man-love from Vince Mcmahon gets annoying after a while, but Shawn was given a formula and it worked ; put him up against all power guys and have him beat the odds over and over and over. The match with Diesel is one of the most exciting matches of 1996, as these guys just trade big move after big move, as Shawn does something with Diesel that even Bret couldn't do, and that's speed up Diesel's pace by about 140X. Love the MDV cameo, love the big powerbomb through the table, and love the finish. On the REALLLLLYY high end of ****

The Bulldog series were a solid set of matches, with the first one being a basic power vs speed matchup with alot of crisp moves but not a ton of emotion, while the second one took that concept and amplified it full of emotion and excitement. We got more near falls and big time moves in the KOTR matchup as opposed to the IYH match, which was good but seemed a tad too dry for my tastes. For me, Davey Boy needs to matchup with the right opponent to fit his style, and Shawn fits that description fairly well. The worst matches of Shawn's reign, which is ridiculous in itself to say the least.

We now enter into perhaps my favourite match of 1996 ; Summerslam 1996 where HBK took on the man they call Vader. I'm a HUGE Vader fan and I always have been from his time in Japan, to WCW, all the way to the WWF, and to say that this was the perfect example of the power vs speed matchup that we've been getting since the beginning of wrestling would be an understatement. These two completely tore the house down in the main event of Summerslam. The storytelling was fantastic, and Shawn looked like Jake Roberts (NOT on crack-cocaine) with his psychology, as every punch seemed to have meaning in this one. Shawn would then use all of his crazy aerial tactics to try and take the big man down, but Vader wasn't having any of that shit, and proceeded to systematically destroy Shawn. I could gush and gush and gush over this match all day long, but I seriously recommend it if you haven't seen it already. Cornette is awesome, the multiple finishes are awesome, this match is AWESOME.

Mick Foley said it best in his first book : Mind Games 1996 was my finest performance to date. He was 100 percent correct, as not only Foley, but both men were on FIRE at this point, so obviously their meeting would be nothing short of amazing. The story here is simple ; Shawn has beaten some of the most powerful men in the WWF with his high flying tactics and his technical wrestling, but along comes a man that won't respond to that. Mankind is impervious to pain at this point, and Shawn is a fish out of water in this one, he must adapt to Foley's style, or lose the WWF title in the process. The psychology here is spot on, as it's probably the only time you'll ever see an opponent actually work on Foley's HAND so that he can't lock in the mandible claw. The way Shawn works the legs of Mankind, only to have Mankind jab himself with a pen to get the feeling back in his leg is fantastic, and I felt it added to Foley's character. We also had the awesome SPOTZZZ but obviously that's not what makes this match awesome, it's the character development. I love, love, love, love this match with a passion and every wrestling fan should watch this before they die. The ending is MEH, but it was necessary to protect both men.

Okay, let me get this out of the way... From time to time, I mark out for SID. I don't know why, maybe it's because he has one of the greatest entrances in WWF history , and his pyro is the GOAT.....Even though I mark for him, he's very suspect in the ring, but this is no doubt his finest performance in a WWF. Here we have a 1990s version of a hostile John Cena match, with HBK being Cena in this case with the crowd completely turning on him. Another FANTASTIC power vs speed matchup here, as Sid throws HBK all around the place and Shawn just bumps like mad for him. You can see Sid stay relatively tweener-ish during this match, until he makes his full blown AWESOME heel turn at the end. The psychology is clearly there, as Shawn needs to attack the legs to mow SID down, and the story is amazing : Shawn faces another powerhouse, only this time he's not the favourite and he doesn't have the fans behind his back...... How does he respond ? A great performance by both men, and PS : SID is awesome.

Speaking of SID, his title defense against Bret from IYH is pretty damn good for a SID match as well. Bret is more powerful than Shawn, so he does a better job of attacking the base of SID , getting him down to a horizontal base and trying to work the legs and back to hook the sharpshooter. This was billed as the battle of the finishers, and rightfully so, as both men spend a large amount of time trying to set up their respective finishers (SID's powerbomb is awesome  ) . In the end, SID prevails in a pretty good match that had me hooked throughout, even though it suffered from some pacing issues as Bret felt he was an afterthought to the arrogant Shawn Michaels once again.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Shawn Michaels vs Mankind IYH 10 : ***** 3/4*


One of my favourite matches of all time, with any sort of finish I give it *******

Just an amazing performances from 2 of my favourites ever.

I'd dare say it would be in my top 20 wwe matches in history


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Mindgames finish is still absolute shits.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Mind Games 1996 ~ *** 1/2

<Hides>


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

With a solid finish, the match easily hits classic territory. But ahh, it's a frustrating match to watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels' 96 run held up really well, but the first match with Bulldog is boring as hell. Don't ever plan on watching that again. Other than that, he had a great run, on and off PPV. 



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I'd dare say it would be in my top 20 wwe matches in history


it'd be in my top 5.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> With a solid finish, the match easily hits classic territory. But ahh, it's a frustrating match to watch.


Yeah. The in-ring work is fine but it makes no sense to me. Plus, if you think about it: the ref could have DQ'ed them 1000 times. Nitpicking I guess. The ending is terrible.




Yeah1993 said:


> Michaels' 96 run held up really well, but the first match with Bulldog is boring as hell. Don't ever plan on watching that again. Other than that, he had a great run, on and off PPV.
> 
> it'd be in my top 5.


The match against Bulldog at KOTR '96 is fantastic. Thinking about it, it could be my MOTY for that year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah KOTR's a great one. Makes up for the dull sack of nothing the first time 'round.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I find that in this project I find myself walking a thin line between what's GOOD , and what I LIKE. For instance, I don't like Bulldog vs Shawn 1 whatsoever , but deep down I still know that it's a crisp match regardless of how dull and boring it is , so I slapped ***** on it. That goes with lots of matches from that time period, that were fine wrestled matches but lacked the inspiration to be anything CLASSIC or great.

Contrast that to a match that I watched a few hours ago : Hogan vs Taker from JD 02. Sure, it's not a great match by any means, but I really LIKE it and I can justify me liking it if I really wanted to. People find it hard to distinguish FAVOURITE matches from GOOD matches, and I need to do that in order to come out with a great list at the end of next month or whenever I get this completed (10-14 days seems realistic, as I have only 35 matches left  ) . I think it would be best to do a BEST list , as well as a FAVOURITES list to avoid confusion. 

RANDOM STARZ 

Lesnar-Taker I UNF 02 : **** 1/2*

Don't understand why this gets shit on so much by practically every wrestling critic known to mankind. Great match with tons of intensity, and Brock working DAT midsection while still being overpowered for the first time by Undertaker is monumental in itself. Seeing this match got me hyped for a potential Lesnar-Taker showdown. Crazy selling and bumping around by Lesnar as he channelled his inner Shawn Michaels in this one. DA BROCKTAGON IZ ALWAYZ AWSUM !


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that Unforgiven match. ****1/4 from me. Whole way they structured the Lesnar/Undertaker feud reminded me of the HBK/Undertaker feud back in 97. They have their first match on PPV, and it doesn't end properly and all shit breaks lose, so instead of throwing them in an ordinary cage match, the put em in HIAC where there is nowhere to go and a winner MUST be decided.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched WM 22. Think I'm just gonna run through the '06 PPVs.

Masters/Carlito vs Show/Kane - **1/2
MITB II - ***1/4
JBL/Benoit - ***1/4
Edge/Foley - ****1/4
Boogey/Booker - DUD
Mickie/Trish - ***1/4
Taker/Henry - **1/2
HBK/Vince - ****1/4
Mysterio/Orton/Angle - ***1/2
Torrie/Candice - DUD
Trips/Cena - ***3/4

Love this show.

- Despite not being a technical masterpiece, I find HBK/Vince so entertaining. Thought it really put together a story too. Would've marked if Bret had made the save on Shawn but it was still too early for him to come back.

- Don't like Trips/Cena as much as their other two matches, but it's still pretty good.

- Despite some horrible booking, I'm still really entertained by the triple threat.

- Edge/Foley OWNS.

- As a whole the show is just really fun.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Vince is awesome at getting his ass kicked. No joke, the guy is an extreme badass when it comes to that. I find myself thoroughly enjoying most Vince McMahon matches. Felt so sorry for him when he was waiting for HBK to elbow him through the table, poor guy must not have known when it was coming.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOVE the crowd for HHH/Cena at Mania 22. To this day I wish I could've heard the reaction had the finish been different.


----------



## Dusty Roids (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm watching The 50 Greatest Finishing moves right now and the only irritation point so far is that Kurt Angle is ranked 25 with "his" ankle lock. I think it's disrespectful towards Ken Shamrock,the man who introduced the move into pro wrestling. I understand they need to include Angle into the list but they didn't even mention Shamrock once. How rude. I think Kenny is on bad terms with Vince.


EDIT:

IRRITATION POINT 2: Edge's spear? what about Goldberg?????


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is there anywhere I can find the steel cage match between Benoit & JBL that took place on Smackdown a few weeks after WM22? I've been searching everywhere but only a bit of it is in dailymotion and the full match has been impossible to find. And unlike 2003/2004 (and the AE years), finding full episodes for 2006 is very rare on youtube.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Lesnar Unforgiven 2002- ***3/4

Need to re-watch it but I remember having it at that rating... or ****. I need to re-watch it though to get an up-to-date opinion. Actually might do it later today if I'm in the mood.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Is there anywhere I can find the steel cage match between Benoit & JBL that took place on Smackdown a few weeks after WM22? I've been searching everywhere but only a bit of it is in dailymotion and the full match has been impossible to find. And unlike 2003/2004 (and the AE years), finding full episodes for 2006 is very rare on youtube.


I have it on a Smackdown match compilation DVD, if i can figure out a VOB-AVI Conversion, ill try and upload it for you.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Love that Unforgiven match. ****1/4 from me. Whole way they structured the Lesnar/Undertaker feud reminded me of the HBK/Undertaker feud back in 97. They have their first match on PPV, and it doesn't end properly and all shit breaks lose, so instead of throwing them in an ordinary cage match, the put em in HIAC where there is nowhere to go and a winner MUST be decided.


I enjoyed that match and that storyline too, ( Hell it's what got me into wrestling at 7), my only problem is the unnecessary conclusion of Tracy (AKA Melina), just seemed so out of place. That being said I love the match, and I like the DQ (could've been a stronger DQ, but that's nitpicking). People seem to forget storylines when rating some matches and with this one they forgot how great Brock's handling was at this point. He had destroyed Hogan, beaten Rock very decisively, and looked just unstoppable. Meanwhile, Taker is maybe the one guy that can stop him and for most of 2002 he was the top guy again. Add to Heyman's douchbagary with Taker's wife and mocking Taker's unborn child, including one of my favorite lines in wrestling history, Brock: Life's a BITCH! The reason I love this line is not because of the line itself, but the way Brock says it I can't describe. Also, he does he puts his hand on Taker's wife's pregnant stomach. Interesting how subtle touches work stronger than, oh I don't know, KILLLING THE BABY. Hell if this were Vince bookin' it he'd probably have lesnar gore her through the wall, but the little touch made the seriousness come across. Just to give you an understanding of how much SM was better than Raw, while SM was doing this RAW was preparing for a necrophilia angle. Wow, I got sidetracked. Any way good match. 

****

Favorite Spot:
DAT CHAIRSHOT. Any body who watches this match knows exactly what I'm talking about.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Is there anywhere I can find the steel cage match between Benoit & JBL that took place on Smackdown a few weeks after WM22? I've been searching everywhere but only a bit of it is in dailymotion and the full match has been impossible to find. And unlike 2003/2004 (and the AE years), finding full episodes for 2006 is very rare on youtube.


Managed to convert it, ill upload it tomorrow...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You ever look at a set of ratings from various reviewers before watching a match, and then watch the match itself and say "these guys are morons, this is fucking AWESOME" .... I just got that feeling. I've finally found the most *underrated match of all time.* It deserves it's own review on the side in contrast to a mini one...

*Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show Stretcher Match : Judgment Day 2003*

The story going into this match is basically that Big Show is the ultimate bully, destroying Rey Mysterio and every single "little guy" he can get his hands on. Now, you see for some reason or another, Brock Lesnar isn't putting up with any bullshit, and the next big thing isn't going to lose to a bully... HE STANDZ UP 4 WWE so to speak. In the Hulkamania era onwards, fans had no idea how this match type would work, but BROCK always manages to get the job done. Big Show coming down to the ring with the names of his victims on a stretcher board and HERE WE GO !

These two begin just pounding away at each other with some really stiff shots. Show is moving incredibly fast here as he goes for a running strike on Lesnar but eats the post. MAN did that look brutal, as Lesnar takes the stretcher board and proceeds to keep nailing Big Show across the back with it over and over and over again, in what looks to be extremely painful. Big Show tries to rebound, but Brock takes the board and chops Big Show down like the monster he is, starting with the legs, and then the midsection over and over and over. What a pace these two are working at, as this isn't just a match, it's a brutal fight between two monsters. Love the psychology here, as if Show catches Lesnar with a few shots, Lesnar could be doomed, therefore Lesnar has to move lightning quick (which he does, Brock moves like a cruiserweight in this one).

This is just so back and forth, with Big Show trying to slow down Lesnar's incredible pace with slow but effective power moves, but since Brock is just as STRONG as he is fast, Brock isn't having any of it and proceeds to manhandle Lesnar all over the arena. The actual set up stretchers are used as well, as Show repeatedly slams Lesnar on them in what also looks to be very painful. Lesnar is repeatedly unsuccessful in dragging Show across the line, so what's his plan ? TO CHOKE THE BIG FUCKER OUT WITH A PAIR OF CABLES! Show looks DEAD, but his saving grace is that Lesnar can't push Show across the line because he stays choked (almost hung) by the cables.

These two make it back to the ring apron, where Brock pushes Big Show off where he bounces off of the base of a stretcher ! That was one of the most painful looking things that I have ever seen in wrestling, what a bump by Big Show. Lesnar says "I got a plan" and goes to the back, only to have REY FUCKING MYSTERIO come out of nowhere to try and get revenge on the Big Show for his past transgressions, only to get caught by the big man. Just when Brock disappears and Rey looks like he's leaving on a stretcher as well, BROCK BURSTS THROUGH THE FUCKING SET ON A FORKLIFT and parks it right next to the ring. He climbs to the top of the forklift which obviously distracts Big Show, leaving Rey to put Show in a sleeper, choking him out. Brock then does what surely should be considered insane and JUMPS OFF THE TOP OF THE FUCKING FORKLIFT OVER THE ROPES ON TOP OF BIG SHOW. That was one of the best looking spots I have ever seen. BIG suplex and a BIG F-5 end this AWESOME MATCH.

HOLY FUCKING BIG SHOW JESUS JIM ROSS SLOBBERKNOCKER STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD CHRIST that was awesome ! These two just go at it NON-stop , and it might be.. Well.. IT IS... The most underrated match I've ever seen (WHY does nobody have this at **** ? ) and DEFINITELY the greatest match in the history of the Big Show, who takes one of the worst and stiffest beatings I've ever seen in a wrestling match. Brock's performance was GODLY, and if you haven't watched this match in the last month, go do it RIGHT FUCKING NOW. It's awesome.. I mean it :hhh ... YOU FUCKERS !

***** 1/2*


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

That stretcher match was pretty fun from what I recall. Batista/Michaels from Extreme Rules 08 is another awesome stretch match too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This is getting fucking ridiculous.

Just watched the Vengeance 2003 triple threat between Angle/Lesnar/Show and it's a legit ***** 1/2* to me , and DARE I SAY IT better than the 02 triple threat by a small margin. WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH SMACKDOWN IN 2003 ?!?!?! Seriously, It;s been **** 1/2 +* all across the fucking board with a majority being all time classics. Now I have to watch Lesnar-Angle II from Summerslam , which I had at ***** 3/4* on my last watch , so if the Biker Chain match holds up..

Then we have the all time best year for WWE Championship matches. Might as well just come out and say it, sorry to ruin the surprise :kurt :kurt :kurt


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> This is getting fucking ridiculous.
> 
> Just watched the Vengeance 2003 triple threat between Angle/Lesnar/Show and it's a legit ***** 1/2* to me , and DARE I SAY IT better than the 02 triple threat by a small margin. WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH SMACKDOWN IN 2003 ?!?!?! Seriously, It;s been **** 1/2 +* all across the fucking board with a majority being all time classics. Now I have to watch Lesnar-Angle II from Summerslam , which I had at ***** 3/4* on my last watch , so if the Biker Chain match holds up..
> 
> Then we have the all time best year for WWE Championship matches. Might as well just come out and say it, sorry to ruin the surprise :kurt :kurt :kurt


Yes, Yes, and YES! I've always felt Smackdown from Sept. 2002- March 2004 is criminally underrated. That era is the reason I still watch wrestling today. I don't care what anyone says that era was the best Big Show ever was, the best Kurt Angle ever was, best Brock ever was, best Benoit ever was, best Eddie ever was, and (at least in terms of gimmick) best Cena ever was. So much talent and Heyman at the time was head booker and was just incredible. I loved the storylines and SO many underrated matches. I've never seen Benoit booked so well as to play to his strengths. Hell, this era is the reason Cena is the top guy today. Not only that but THE CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION was incredible. Rey, Noble, Tajiri, Nunzio, (even though he was underutilized) Ultimo Dragon. Every Smackdown seemed to have at least one *** match. Hell, I even enjoyed the Gowen storyline a bit. The only storyline I can think of that I didn't like at all was the Al Wilson debacle. Smackdown absolutely blew RAW out of the water at this point. Example: Bad Blood 03, RAWs first exclusive PPV, had the ******* triathlon, Steiner infamous botch off the ring apron onto Test's ankle, and Nash/HHH, HIAC. Smackdown's Vengeance had to be one of the most underrated PPVs of all time. Granted it had Steph/Sable and Vince/Gowen, but it also had Eddie/Benoit, Cena/Taker, ONE OF THE GREATEST TAG MATCHES I EVA' SAW Kidman/Rey vs. WGTT, and the aforementioned underrated Triple Threat. Hell, give me Smackdown '03 over RAW '99 any day. No, I'm not joking..


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Kinda off topic, but was just watching an old Flair/HHH segment from the night of the Batista contract signing for WM21 right before it. This segment reminded me of something... HHH can be as great as he wants to be, but god, Flair makes him seem a hundred times what he is. lol. I saw a youtube comment "Ric Flair=Biggest HHH mark"... so true. :lmao Hell, 75% of the reason Evolution was so entertaining was Flair's marking out for HHH.

And so I can keep it somewhat on topic:

Lesnar/Show JD03: ****

Fantastic stretcher match. Lesnar/Show have some great chemistry.

Edit: On Taker/Lesnar Unforgiven, 2 things:

1) I give the match ****. A real fight feel to it with some excellent psychology and storytelling. Taker makes Brock taste his own blood, and Brock goes after Taker's ribs, both which were alluded to in the Taker/Brock sit-down promo. Which brings me to just that:

2) 



Such a fantastic promo between them. Taker was amazing. Paul was amazing. Lesnar even was pretty good. Paul talking about Taker's family was a nice way to make this feud personal, in addition to what would happen with the whole "Life's a bitch" thing with Lesnar/Sara. 

I think I'm gonna give Taker/Lesnar HIAC another watch tomorrow. I have it at ****3/4, and the highest at that rating. We'll see if it holds up. But I did watch the video package in preparation and it's awesome!






Edit: Speaking of awesome promos, this one for Taker/Cena Vengeance 03 just happened to be in the suggested videos:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Is there anywhere I can find the steel cage match between Benoit & JBL that took place on Smackdown a few weeks after WM22? I've been searching everywhere but only a bit of it is in dailymotion and the full match has been impossible to find. And unlike 2003/2004 (and the AE years), finding full episodes for 2006 is very rare on youtube.


*JBL vs. Chris Benoit (Cage Match) (Smackdown 4/14/06)*

https://hotfile.com/dl/169896376/6e...oit_(Cage_Match)_(Smackdown_4.14.06).avi.html


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My thoughts on JBL/Benoit cage match when I watched it for my SD 06 project:

*JBL Vs Chris Benoit - US Title - Steel Cage - Smackdown April 14th 2006*

A WM rematch! Liked their match at WM, thought it was a hell of a lot better than it should have been given the fact JBL was involved.

Long comes out before it starts and announces that it will be a CAGE match! Been wanting to see this since Andy mentioned it and got me to upload it (and he still hasn't watched it, the cunt!).

Didn't think this "feud" was ready for a cage match just yet, but WWE was about to start using the cage as often as a singles match (after they had kinda cooled down with them since the Attitude Era where we would have one every couple of weeks  ), so I guess it doesn't matter too much. Benoit takes it to JBL straight away, and Bradshaw has to brawl his way back into control, and once he takes down Benoit, he quickly tries to climb out. Benoit drags him off, and tries to climb out himself, which honestly doesn't bother me too much since I didn't think their were in a heated feud. Benoit pretty much wants to beat JBL to win the US title, not necessarily maim him... but if he has to do that to win, then he'll do that.

We get a couple of medium sized cage spots, with a back suplex from the top rope (in the middle of the ropes, not the corner), and Benoit launched off the top rope when they were battling in the corner to escape.

Plenty of stiff shots from both guys too a you would expect. They don't like each other so they do want to inflict damage, but overall I believe I am right in saying that both men simply want to win rather than destroy each other; destroying each other just helps with the winning lol.

Off topic here... never been a fan of Jillian in terms of looks... but those tits and THAT top... yum.

Both men end up exhausted, and JBL takes full advantage of this by locking in a sleeper hold, hoping that Benoit is already worn down enough for this hold to be used as a viable finisher for the first time in years. Surprise surprise though, its not over with a sleeper, instead it begins the Benoit comeback.

All through the match, any of the big spots (aka from the top rope) have been taken by Benoit, so when he finally gets to make his big comeback at the end, he makes damn sure JBL takes a bump too, and he busts out a top rope German Suplex! Looked AWESOME considering a guy the size of JBL took it.

Finish is pretty great, with Benoit crawling out of the cage and Jillian trying to ram the door into his head. The ref stops her, and while she gets rid of him, JBL shoves Benoit of of the way and is about to leave... but Jillian slams the door into HIS face! Ha! Crossface is locked in, and JBL taps out! Only Jillian makes up for what she just did by distracting the ref inside the ring when she tried to climb in.

JBL reverses the Crossface into a pin like at WM, but Benoit kicks out this time. They then fight to get out of the door, but a low blow puts Benoit down and JBL picks up the win.

Really enjoyed this match, maybe not enough to add it to my final list, but will be put into consideration. I liked how they worked with the cage stip, given where their feud was. It wasn't a blood and hate filled feud, though both guys don't like each other at all, its about the title (for this match, anyway. Benoit wants revenge for WM by winning back the belt). So they don't work this cage match like they want to kill each other, they try to win. And like I mentioned, trying to destroy each other helps them on their way to winning. So considering all of that, I thought they worked this cage match better than most people have in the last 5 or so years (HHH/Flair is the only one I can think of that was worked better).

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About to watch the Last Ride Match between JBL and The Undertaker at No Mercy 2004 ....

Thoughts on this match ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did a favour for a friend the other day, and they sent me a Silvervision gift voucher . Ordered some stuff, got them this afternoon (bloody late post):

WWE Live in the UK November 2010 (one of the weaker TV tapings over here, but I need it for my collection lol)
Raw: The Beginning - Best of Season 1 & 2
Vengeance 2004: Limited Edition version including Trish Stratus: Stratusfaction Guaranteed (I ain't fucking opening this!)
Best of Raw 2010 bluray
WrestleMania 26 bluray (completing my bluray WM collection except for 28 that I'll get when its cheap  )



Spoiler: last ride match



The Undertaker Vs JBL - WWE Title Last Ride Match - No Mercy 2004

I always loved this match, but damn, I love it even more now. It takes everything that was good about their SS match, and turns it up a notch. More vicious beatings, blood, intensity... its all there.

Being the first Last Ride match, I was unsure at the time how it would play out, but they did a real great job with the stipulation. Unlike stretcher matches, ambulance matches, and hell, even the likes of LMS matches, they didn't constantly go to the hearse and try to throw each other in. They only went near the thing ONCE in the match before the finish. The rest of the time they were beating the living shit out of each other so they would be hurt enough to stay in the hearse.

JBL made great use of the steel steps throughout the match, but it was The Undertaker who took the steel steps and made them more destructive than ever. The Tombstone to JBL on the steps is fucking awesome, right up there with HBK's normal piledriver on the steps. One thing I didn't like about that though, is that JBL recovers WAY too quickly. A normal Tombstone is known to put a man out for quite some time, but one on the steel steps should essentially be it for whoever takes it. About a minute later, after taking some punches to the head which was busted open, JBL is standing, and fighting back with a steel chair!

Another move on the steel steps is something I really liked, and could have potentially been brutal if done wrong. A simple enough move, but done on the steel steps made it dangerous, and that's the back body drop. 'Taker was reversing a piledriver attempt from Bradshaw, and he had to make sure JBL got enough distance from the steps, otherwise he would have just gone over and smashed the back of his skull. Plus, The Undertaker was right on the edge of the steps, and he had to fall back after hitting the move due to the shifting weight of JBL, and he could have easily fallen wrong too. Lucky they pulled it off well, and it looked pretty cool IMO.

The one thing that really prevents me from going higher with this match is the finish. Heidenreich jumped out of the hearse just as The Undertaker opened it to put JBL in, and tried to chloroform him. The Undertaker looked to be out as the hearse drove away, but the camera inside showed him sitting up and getting out again. JBL used the Heidenreich distraction to give him a Clothesline from Hell, and that was enough to keep 'Taker in the hearse.

Apart from the shitty ending, this was a fantastic match. More of a street fight than anything else, as the hearse only really came into play right at the end. Probably in my bottom 100, but its going to be there for now it seems! 

Rating: ****1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> *JBL vs. Chris Benoit (Cage Match) (Smackdown 4/14/06)*
> 
> https://hotfile.com/dl/169896376/6e...oit_(Cage_Match)_(Smackdown_4.14.06).avi.html


Thanks a lot, man. Just finished DLing.



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> About to watch the Last Ride Match between JBL and The Undertaker at No Mercy 2004 ....
> 
> Thoughts on this match ?


To be honest, I thought it was a bit too slow for my liking. Not a huge fan of it but it's still a decent match.


----------



## R32TheMix (Aug 30, 2012)

Loved this match:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Brock then does what surely should be considered insane and JUMPS OFF THE TOP OF THE FUCKING FORKLIFT OVER THE ROPES ON TOP OF BIG SHOW. That was one of the best looking spots I have ever seen.


That leap from the forklift was insane :lmao he jumped so far.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Bulldog/HBK from King Of The Ring 1996.

Classic matchup between the two, great overall chemistry, found it funny when Bulldog got in the ring and was getting some stick (think from fans, thought it was Owen but they were both heels wern't they), but he blurted out "Don't Fuck with me" lol, couldn't hear it but you could read his lips easy!!

There are some great fucking bumps in this match, the suplex off the top turnbuckle Bulldog gives HBK for example.

Also the aftermath too, with Vader, Ahmed Johnson (remember him lol), even the Ultimate bloody Warrior!!!!

Im shit at rating but at least **** maybe ****1/2 for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Undertaker-JBL series is great stuff. **** 1/2* for both matches, and I especially loves the beating that JBL takes in the Last Ride match. I'm a big fan of the story that JBL's title reign took, as he was a HUGE dick who just managed to overcome the odds time and time again. About to watch the Armageddon Fatal 4 Way, and they do a pre match promo where JBL's cabinet tell him that it's going to be okay, and a distraught JBL takes a long walk down the hall from his locker room to the ring, and it's just like he KNOWS he's in for a world of pain, but he has to accept it. Brilliant segment.

Thoughts on that particular match guys ? I haven't seen it in about 4-5 years, but I remember it being good.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You get to see Eddie Guerrero and the Undertaker in the same ring but other than that it isn't worth anything.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

I loved the 4 way when I watched it, it exceeded my expectations by a mile. I believe I gave it **** or **** 1/4 , I find it to be underated. It has been awhile since I've seen it though.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Just watched the finishers DVD, horrible positions as usual but decent list in the content. 

They had some ridiculous things like saying that Edge was like the pioneer or had the best Spear or something. Then for Goldberg they showed only his Jackhammer to not expose their stupidity from the previous slots. Also said that no finisher got a crowd reaction like the Stunner, nothing was more over than the People's Elbow. I can agree with the Stunner as number 1 but their stupid explanations like "you can hit it from every position"(which is not true at all)or "he beat everybody with it" just seems desperate to put Austin there. Besides the annoying voiceover before every number, decent DVD.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Rock316AE said:


> Just watched the finishers DVD, horrible positions as usual but decent list in the content.
> 
> They had some ridiculous things like saying that Edge was like the pioneer or had the best Spear or something. Then for Goldberg they showed only his Jackhammer to not expose their stupidity from the previous slots. Also said that no finisher got a crowd reaction like the Stunner, nothing was more over than the People's Elbow. I can agree with the Stunner as number 1 but their stupid explanations like "you can hit it from every position"(which is not true at all)or "he beat everybody with it" just seems desperate to put Austin there. Besides the annoying voiceover before every number, decent DVD.


Those lists wouldnt be so damn boring if people debated where certain things should be on the list. One of my favorite shows is NFL Top Ten because people who they get to talk about the list debate about who should be in which spot. But of course in WWE's mind "Were always right!" Even when they have completely asinine spots on the list (Tebow being ahead of Marcus Allen on a list of top heismann winners in the NFL) they show everyone debating the spot. It's not a dick-suckingfest like it is in WWE DVDs, that's why this forum is great, we all have different opinions and it's interesting to here other people's opinions (at least when they're argued well and not just morons saying " DANIEL BRYAN SUX!!!"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watching the top 50 finishers now. :lmao at Drew Mac when talking about Lita's moonsault. "My favourite part of Lita's mooonsault would definitely have to be... when she would take her top off before hand". Then Regal "I wish she would do that to me. Ooooo...".

Think it would have been better to no have specific people attached to the finishers (except for the likes of the Stunner, nobody wants to see Disco Inferno copying it lol). That way we wouldn't have had 2 spots for the Moonsault (Lita and Bam Bam) and we could have included the likes of VADER there too (seriously, Bam Bam's pretty shitty odd looking moonsauly over VADER?).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im thinking about getting that DVD at some point, match listing looks alright from a quick glance, not too bothered about the actual 'list doc'.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2004:*

*Batista & Ric Flair vs Dudley Boyz (Tables Match) - *3/4
- The stipulation excited me going into this but the match itself leaves a lot to be desired. They are given about 5 minutes and it just feels way too underwhelming. Batista & Flair retain the tag titles after Batista gives D-Von a spinebuster through a table and Jonathan Coachman randomly interferes to distract the Dudleyz. Would have been better as an elimination tables match given 5 more minutes.

*Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble - **1/2
- Cruiserweight matches are usually exciting and high paced but again, this one is barely given any time and throughout the few minutes, I was not really into it.

*Eddie Guerrero vs Chavo Guerrero - ***
- In under ten minutes, they do some standard wrestling with some decent storytelling in the way they sell the 'betrayal' angle. Ends a bit fast too but the best of the show so far. Eddie wins with the Three Amigos and the Frog Splash then proceeds to take out his frustrations on Chavo Sr. and Chavo Jr. post-match.

*Brock Lesnar vs Hardcore Holly - *
- ...And this is your WWE Championship match. From the previous year's Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit classic, the title scene sinks _this_ low which is unbelievable. After getting his neck broken by sandbagging, Bob Holly returns to get his revenge on Lesnar but the match itself is fucking garbage. They get about 6 minutes of time and for about half of it, they spend the time laying on the mat with a rear naked choke by Lesnar. Then out of nowhere, Lesnar gives Holly the F5 to win. So lacking, it's horrible. None of the intensity the storyline calls for and no entertainment in the match itself.

*HHH vs Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing) - ***3/4
- This is Angle/Benoit to Lesnar/Holly's HHH/Steiner from the 2003 Rumble. The year before, the Smackdown main event followed the Raw one and embarrassed the fuck out of the red brand by following a horrible match with a classic ***** match. This LMS match doesn't compare to the Angle/Benoit classic on the same level but is a breath of fresh air in comparison to the WWE Championship stinker it follows. Not their best match together but still a good one. There's not much wrestling in here either apart from the beginning. Once HBK starts bleeding following that moonsault into the table, they just start hitting moves and then laying down for about an 8 count continuously. Both hit their finishers and after the Sweet Chin Music, it ends in a double count-out. Crowd is not happy about the result as they wanted Shawn to win the title. The amount of bleeding in this match in unbelievable. Probably a top 5 match in WWE history in terms of how much blood has been lost (specially involving both men rather than only one like Eddie/JBL).

*Royal Rumble Match - ****3/4
- I absolutely love this. Chris Benoit finally heads into the main event of Wrestlemania here after starting at number one and winning the whole damn thing. One of the best Rumble matches I've seen with a lot of storytelling advancements made as well. Goldberg is on a roll as the final entrant but the tension between him and Lesnar for the WM20 match continues to build when Lesnar interferes and F5s him, leading to his elimination. Randy Orton continues his feud with Mick Foley when Foley finds his way into the match and eliminates Orton (along with himself). And the ending is awesome with Big Show being extremely dominant, eliminating everyone who was on him (RVD, Cena, Angle, Jericho), leaving him with Benoit only but Benoit shows the heart of a champion by fighting his way into a legendary victory when he puts Big Show in a hold and eliminates the big man by using his weight against him.
*
Overall:* ***1/2 out of ***** (The match card is lacking with only one of them getting anything above 10 minutes which is the World Heavyweight Championship match. It doesn't help that outside of one average and a good match, the rest of the card is pretty weak with the exception of the classic Rumble match which helps bump this into 3 and a half.)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

British Bulldog vs HBK (One Night Only 1997)

Not quite as good as their King Of The Ring match IMO, both still have really good chemistry and it's great seeing Bulldog at times manhandle Micheals with great power moves, the finish still pisses me off though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What a fucking prick HBK is for that ONO match. Bulldog is wrestling in his home country and dedicates the match to (I forget who exactly... his mother maybe?) because they had cancer... and HBK changes the finish so HE wins the match and the European title, a belt he did fuck all with and dropped it to HHH in a finger poke of doom fashion match. Prick.

RR 04 is a great match. Rest of the PPV is completely skippable (not high on the LMS match these days), but damn the rumble is one of the best. Probably a top 5, though I love so many of them keeping a definitive top 5 or even top 10 is impossible .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> What a fucking prick HBK is for that ONO match. Bulldog is wrestling in his home country and dedicates the match to (I forget who exactly... his mother maybe?) because they had cancer... and HBK changes the finish so HE wins the match and the European title, a belt he did fuck all with and dropped it to HHH in a finger poke of doom fashion match. Prick.


Yeah mate, my sentiments exactly, it was Bulldogs' sister he dedicated the match to, who like you say had cancer, also Diana was there and Bulldog's mom and dad, its also the after match bollocks from HBK/HHH and all that fuck me off too, i was watching the match saying the exact same thing Jim Cornette did in his shoot, Bulldog should have proper beat the fuck out of Micheals, just another example of Micheals' ......ry(new word lol!!!)

I completely forgot he dropped the belt in such fashion to HHH, should have realised really.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did HBK even defend the title before the HHH match? He was feuding with 'Taker and the belt wasn't on the line in either match that I know of. Then we moved on to the feud with Bret for the WWF Title.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Did HBK even defend the title before the HHH match? He was feuding with 'Taker and the belt wasn't on the line in either match that I know of. Then we moved on to the feud with Bret for the WWF Title.


Good point mate, i can't ever remember him defending it no, as ONO was in September of 1997, i did see this video lol:






Saw a comment in the YT comments about the 1995-Kevin Nash timeline programme, asked if HBK had knee surgury - fuck no he says!!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol yeah, Nash basically said that HBK is like a teacher and wants the summer off .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sorry to go on abit lol  but on the My Journey DVD, HBK still stays basically that match was "good for buisness" to gain as much heat as possible - fuck off mate, he still stands by that call, yeah you apparantly found the man upstairs but the devil found you first...

Ends rant


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, good for business, got heat... because he didn't have enough fucking heat already? Was him and HHH jerking off, as Jim Cornette would say.


----------



## R32TheMix (Aug 30, 2012)

Neck break always makes me cringe


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

More pretty much random ratings, any thoughts/disagreements?

Armageddon 2008: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
Survivor Series 2002: Elimination Chamber - ***3/4
Wrestlemania XIX: Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - ***1/2 (I was a little underwhelmed, expected a lot better)
Great American Bash 2004: JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***3/4
Bragging Rights 2009: Batista vs. Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - ***1/4
Breaking Point 2009: Degeneration-X vs. Legacy - ***
Over the Limit 2010: Evan Bourne vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/2
Summerslam 2008: Edge vs. The Undertaker - ****

Watched all of these for the first time (except Punk/Rey but the only other time I saw it was live) yesterday, and they were all pleasantly good imo.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Armageddon 2008: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
Survivor Series 2002: Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
Wrestlemania XIX: Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - ****1/4
Great American Bash 2004: JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero - *** iirc
Bragging Rights 2009: Batista vs. Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - ***
Breaking Point 2009: Degeneration-X vs. Legacy - can't remember anything about this.
Over the Limit 2010: Evan Bourne vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Summerslam 2008: Edge vs. The Undertaker - ****1/2 (best PG era HIAC)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Armageddon 2008: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
Survivor Series 2002: Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
Wrestlemania XIX: Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - ****1/4
Great American Bash 2004: JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***3/4
Bragging Rights 2009: Batista vs. Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - ***
Breaking Point 2009: Degeneration-X vs. Legacy - ***
Over the Limit 2010: Evan Bourne vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Summerslam 2008: Edge vs. The Undertaker - ****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gonna try and watch the whole Punk/Rey series of matches from '08 to '12 once I get some free time.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Punk/Rey from Armageddon is a fucking gem. Really fun match- they can do some cool shit together. I loved the whole IC tournament idea. Great match. Haven't seen it in quite a while though. Can't imagine myself going any less than ****.

Angle/Lesnar from XIX is probably my favorite match of all time. I loved the technical work. All of the choke holds and mat wrestling. It was really fun for me to watch. The ending is pretty notorious, but whatever I'm cool with it. Definitely memorable. ****1/2 for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Didn't see the Bourne/Jericho match or the Punk/Rey match but...

Survivor Series 2002: Elimination Chamber - **** 1/2 (2nd Greatest EC Match ever)
Wrestlemania XIX: Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - **** 1/4 (Main evented the greatest PPV of all time , enough said)
Great American Bash 2004: JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero - *** 3/4 (Watched this today ; fantastic match) 
Bragging Rights 2009: Batista vs. Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio - *** 1/4 (Fun while it lasted)
Breaking Point 2009: Degeneration-X vs. Legacy - *** 1/2 (DX finally putting over some new stars)
Summerslam 2008: Edge vs. The Undertaker - **** 1/2 (AWESOME match, top 3 of 2008)


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Thoughs on CM Punk's WWE Championship Run?

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio
TLC Vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho
Over the Limit vs Bryan Danielson
No Way Out vs Bryan Danielson & Kane
Money in the Bank vs Bryan Danielson
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio : **** (MOTN)
TLC Vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz : **** (MOTN)
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler : *** 3/4 (MOTN)
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth : *** 3/4 (MOTN)
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/2 (AWESOME match, just played a second fiddle to HHH/Taker)
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/4 (Only the third best match on a STACKED card)
Over the Limit vs Bryan Danielson : **** 3/4 (MOTY)
No Way Out vs Bryan Danielson & Kane : *** 3/4 (MOTN)
Money in the Bank vs Bryan Danielson : **** (MOTN)
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show : ** 1/4 (LOLWUT)

Fucking AWESOME title reign. Since I only have about 15 matches to go in my project, I can proudly say that besides the mediocre Summerslam triple threat, it's one of the greatest reigns ever. It's only going to get better as him and Cena always capture lighting in a bottle whenever they're in the ring together. Could have been maybe the ALL TIME GREATEST in the Hulkamania-Present era, but he had the mediocre SS match where Big Show dictated the matches pace, which hurts it a little bit. Top 5 reign IMO, but we'll see how it stacks up.


----------



## Felpent (Jun 11, 2012)

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio : ****
TLC Vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz : ***
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler : ***3/4
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth : ** (garbage)
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho : ***1/4
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho : ***1/2 (overrated by many)
Over the Limit vs Bryan Danielson : ****3/4
No Way Out vs Bryan Danielson & Kane : ***1/4
Money in the Bank vs Bryan Danielson : ****1/4
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show : **

Decent reign, Nothing special(except for the OTL match), Overrated by marks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio : ***1/2
TLC Vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz : ***
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler : ***1/2
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth : **1/2
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/2
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho : ***1/2
Over the Limit vs Bryan Danielson : **** 3/4
No Way Out vs Bryan Danielson & Kane : ***1/2
Money in the Bank vs Bryan Danielson : ***3/4
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show : **3/4

Then he has TV matches against Bryan (3 of them?) all at ***1/4 at least, the TV series with Henry (one of them being around ****), a TV match with Kane around ***1/4 and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting about too. Great reign even if I think some of his PPV matches are a tad overrated, but he's been in 2 of my absolutely favourite matches this year on PPV, both of which are in my top 5 for the year in terms of quality. Henry match at **** is my TV MOTY too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio : ***3/4
TLC Vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz : ***1/2
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler : ***3/4
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth : ***3/4
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho : ****1/2
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho : ****
Over the Limit vs Bryan Danielson : *****
No Way Out vs Bryan Danielson & Kane : ***3/4
Money in the Bank vs Bryan Danielson : ***1/2
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show : **1/2

Amazing run as champion. Also has a **** match with Henry the Raw after Mania... a similar type match that was great (not as great) against Big Show on Raw 999. Also the third Henry match was very good as well. Had a nice set of tv matches all over *** with Bryan, and plenty of other tv goodness in between. His triple threat at Summerslam might legit be (by far) his worst match since becoming Champion, and that's saying something considering it wasn't that bad. 

I say the best WWE Title run since HHH's first one in 2000, and even then the 3 months between EC and OTL could even rival that 3 month reign. Punk has been Wrestler of the Year by a good bit imo.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio : ***3/4
TLC Vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz : **** 
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler : ***1/2
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth : **1/4
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho : ****1/4
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho : ***1/4
Over the Limit vs Bryan Danielson : ****1/4
No Way Out vs Bryan Danielson & Kane : ***3/4 
Money in the Bank vs Bryan Danielson : ****
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show : *1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Hardcore Show said:


> Thoughs on CM Punk's WWE Championship Run?
> 
> Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio
> TLC Vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz
> ...


The only matches I can actually remember in detail are vs. Bryan @OTL and vs. Jericho @ER. The rest of them have been pretty much forgettable to me. I would have to go back and watch them all before I doled out ratings. The Bryan match was truly something special and the ER match with Jericho was awesome. The rest of them are just alright I suppose with the Mania match being at the higher end of the spectrum, otherwise I would have remembered them lol. What I can say is that he's had a very consistent reign but not very memorable at all. If he had the feuds to go with the matches I'd call it one of the better reigns we've seen but I don't think he's had even 1 great or even good feud since he won it. Hopefully he can provide at least something to remember this reign by with the current feud with Cena and then later with Rock if it happens or it will have all been for nought. It's actually quite appalling that he has held the title this long and is still seeking validation and/or a memorable moment.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Can someone rank these DVDs for me from best to worst, or just from which you've seen? Thanks, debating which one I should check out first.

The Streak 20-0
Top 50 Finishers
Greatest Rivalries Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart
Stone Cold Steve Austin: The Bottom Line
The Epic Journey of Dwayne The Rock Johnson
You Think You Know Me: The Story of Edge
Randy Orton: Evolution of A Predator

Again, thanks in advance.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Streak 20-0 - Some truly mega classic matches (some shit too, but mostly good and above lol)


Stone Cold Steve Austin: The Bottom Line - Great doc, match listing not the best due to repeats, but still some great matches.

and then the rest . 

Top 50 Finishers - Doc is shitty, match listing not that impressive aside from having lots of TV matches

Greatest Rivalries Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart - Doc is ok, but I wasn't impressed since I knew everything already. Matches are shit because HBK and Bret had awful chemistry and terrible matches.

The Epic Journey of Dwayne The Rock Johnson - Good doc, crappy match listing.

You Think You Know Me: The Story of Edge - Good doc, crappy match listing.

Randy Orton: Evolution of A Predator - Shit doc, half and half on the match listing.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

KingCal said:


> The Streak 20-0 - Some truly mega classic matches (some shit too, but mostly good and above lol)
> 
> 
> Stone Cold Steve Austin: The Bottom Line - Great doc, match listing not the best due to repeats, but still some great matches.
> ...


Thanks

Orton really that bad? I was mainly going to watch the doc's considering I've seen most of the matches at least once.

And yeah, I watched the first 10 minutes of the top 50 finishers and it was pretty boring, probably won't give it a second look


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Orton doc is great imo. One of the better ones they've put out in a while.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Would have been good if they didn't go half of it as "The Orton Experience". Fucking hate that style of documentary. I don't give a flying fuck about how Orton gets on doing a radio interview or signing autographs. TALK ABOUT WRESTLING AND WRESTLING FEUDS AND WRESTLING MATCHES ON WRESTLING SHOWS DAMMIT.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It wasn't that bad and didn't take away from the doc at all for me. It was about Orton and getting to see him as a person. Including that stuff helped to show him as a person. They could have done without it but the doc doesn't become shit because they put it in. The actual wrestling stuff they did include was great and more than compensates imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punk's title run:

vs Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) - **1/2
vs The Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC) - ***3/4
vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) - **
Elimination Chamber (Elimination Chamber) - ***
vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania 28) - ***1/2
vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) - **3/4
vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) - ****1/4
vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan (No Way Out) - N/A (Skipped this event)
vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) - *1/2
vs Big Show vs John Cena (SummerSlam) - **1/4

Outside of OTL, I don't see what the fuzz is all about.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

To bad Orton is a generally boring person who the only interesting thing to happen in his life is seemingly getting discharged by the army.

And its pretty lol worthy that the theme of the story is ORTON OVERCOMING HIS DEMONS AND DRUGS! and a few months later after the dvd is released he gets suspended for doing drugs.

Matches are good though. Great intact if you don't on them.

EDIT - Don't value any opinion Choke2Death has on CM Punk, he shits all over him any chance he gets.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Rock, Austin and Orton all awesome documentaries with great matches on the DVD. I loved that they finally put Rock vs Flair on DVD, the doc was one of the best they have ever done. I need to watch the new Edge doc, I saw his extras so far with his dogs traveling in the mountains and all that. The Austin DVD overall is probably the best of all time, mainly because of all the rare extras, off-air segments, commentary and that "Bleed For Me" video package. I hope to see a Rock DVD with the same material in the future, there are 1000 off-air segments with him and special content but besides the great doc, they just gave one segment of Rock talking about a conversation he had with Vince in 1999 on the fact that he can say anything he wants and the crowd will react in the same way. God knows why, when you can put at least two more hours of documentary content and extras. Hopefully a 4 disc Rock set next year. Meanwhile Rock/Cena DVD is full of extras and special footage.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Same could be said about you (*jblvdx*) and Orton lol. Pot. Kettle. Black.

And I'd love an off the air WWE set chock full of all the awesome shit that happens after the shows etc. That would be great. That and a gag reel/bloopers set. I'd buy those for teh lulz.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) - *1/2
> vs Big Show vs John Cena (SummerSlam) - **1/4


Huh? First time I've seen a person like the triple threat more than MITB



Rock316AE said:


> Rock, Austin and Orton all awesome documentaries with great matches on the DVD. I loved that they finally put Rock vs Flair on DVD. I need to watch the new Edge doc, I saw his extras so far with his dogs traveling in the mountains and all that. The Austin DVD overall is probably the best of all time, mainly because of all the rare extras, off-air segments, commentary and that "Bleed For Me" video package. I hope to see a Rock DVD with the same material in the future, there are 1000 off-air segments with him and special content but besides the great doc, they just gave one segment of Rock talking about a conversation he had with Vince in 1999 on the fact that he can say anything he wants and the crowd will react in the same way. Hopefully a 4 disc Rock set next year. Meanwhile Rock/Cena DVD is full of extras and special footage.


Thanks, looking forward to watching Rock and Austin the most


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For the DVDs, I've seen the Orton and Edge ones. Orton's doc is some great stuff about him overcoming his demons and getting his life on the right path but focuses a bit too much on the Road to WM27 and not much from a career perspective on his stuff prior to that. The matches are great although it misses the SS04 match with Benoit badly. Edge has some good stuff on the documentary part that shows us his entire life from coming up as a wrestling fan to his retirement and what he's up to afterwards. I've not seen the matches so I can't talk about that part.



jblvdx said:


> EDIT - Don't value any opinion Choke2Death has on CM Punk, *he shits all over him any chance he gets*.


Not really. If I really shat all over him every chance I got, I would have just rated all of the matches badly and called that OTL match a "snooze-fest" or something. But since I'm honest, I admit I enjoyed that match while it lasted. Same can be said about TLC and to a lesser extent, the WM match with Jericho. I just didn't like the rest of the matches much, if at all. The MITB match in particular was frustrating, because it was perhaps the biggest display of SuperPunk with an awful storyline heading into the match. I just wanted either Bryan to win or the damn match to come to an end already. I think you're just mad I'm not a fan of your boy since you always continue responding to me even though you say my opinion shouldn't be "valued".


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Top 5 wrestling documentary dvd's (based on the documentary themselves)

1. Rise and Fall of ECW (untouchable, the closest thing WWE has produced that may be considered to be award material)
2. Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Bottom Line on the the most popular superstar of all time
3. Heartbreak and Triumph, The Shawn Michaels Story
4. Breaking the Code, Behind the Walls of Chris Jericho
5. McMahon

Starbuck, I,m actually a fan of Randy Orton, but he hasn't done anything since his red hot run in the summer of 2010 , his character is a whole lot of nothing right now, and if you're gonna make a documentary about someones life, make sure the persons life outside the ring is interesting.

EDIT- Choke2Death, even though your rating of the DB V CM Punk MITB match itself is way too low. The CM Punk, DB, AJ stuff was very, very bad and handicapped what could of been a great angle (that is just CM Punk V Daniel Bryan, alone, and no one to fuck things up).


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

jblvdx said:


> Top 5 wrestling documentary dvd's (based on the documentary themselves)
> 
> 1. Rise and Fall of ECW (untouchable, the closest thing WWE has produced that may be considered to be award material)
> 2. Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Bottom Line on the the most popular superstar of all time
> ...


Completely forgot that Jericho DVD ever came out, need to check that out as well. And yeah, Rise and Fall is fucking great


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

jblvdx said:


> Top 5 wrestling documentary dvd's (based on the documentary themselves)
> 
> 1. Rise and Fall of ECW (untouchable, the closest thing WWE has produced that may be considered to be award material)
> 2. Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Bottom Line on the the most popular superstar of all time
> ...


Just like Choke takes his liberties when it comes to posting about Punk, all I've seen from you is the same thing when it comes to Orton. I would never know you were a fan of the guy with the way you constantly shit on him every chance you get. Not that it bothers me. I just found it hypocritical of you to have a go at somebody else for doing what appeared to be the same thing. I guess near death experiences, drug problems, attitude problems, having a child, getting kicked out of the marines and finding yourself as a person isn't interesting for you then? Fair enough. You must have a pretty high standard for what an interesting life is then lol.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> And I'd love an off the air WWE set chock full of all the awesome shit that happens after the shows etc. That would be great. That and a gag reel/bloopers set. I'd buy those for teh lulz.


I'm saying it for years now, I thought they're saving it for extras on DVDs because they used it for the Jericho and Austin sets, but for some fucking reason, there was nothing on Rock's set(besides the 2 seconds footage every 5-10 minutes in the documentary). A full DVD that can bring masterpiece like that:

























No doubt.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> EDIT- Choke2Death, even though your rating of the DB V CM Punk MITB match itself is way too low. The CM Punk, DB, AJ stuff was very, very bad and handicapped what could of been a great angle (that is just CM Punk V Daniel Bryan, alone, and no one to fuck things up).


Maybe it is, but AJ was constantly a distraction and with her going and coming back, it took away from the match. Couple that with the fact that Bryan kept destroying Punk but he still overcame the odds, it made his victory a lot Superman like and that's something I hate, no matter who does it. I mean a bunch of kendo stick and chair shots, and a fucking Lebell Lock with a kendo stick, but Punk just kept overcoming everything thrown at him. Similarly, I don't like the ER match with Jericho because Jericho looked way too weak when Punk kept escaping the Walls more than once, and went as far as kicking out of a Codebreaker with a chair. And IIRC, he only gave Jericho one GTS for the victory. But that match is a million times more enjoyable than MITB, that's for sure.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

CM Punks title reign:

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio : **** 
TLC vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz : **** 
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler : *** 1/2
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth : *** 1/2
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/4
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/4 
Over the Limit vs Daniel Bryan : **** 1/2
No Way Out vs Daniel Bryan & Kane : *** 3/4 
Money in the Bank vs Daniel Bryan : **** 1/4
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show : ** 3/4

Pretty good title reign in my view, and to be honest its right up there with the best of them if we are talking match quality wise. Thats also without acknowledging some of the great TV matches with Henry, Bryan, Ziggler, Kane and others. In all honest as well, he should have another 4 star match to his title reign resume in a few weeks with Cena also. Anything less then a 4 star contest would be a big disappointment to me.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) - *1/2


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Just like Choke takes his liberties when it comes to posting about Punk, all I've seen from you is the same thing when it comes to Orton. I would never know you were a fan of the guy with the way you constantly shit on him every chance you get. Not that it bothers me. I just found it hypocritical of you to have a go at somebody else for doing what appeared to be the same thing. I guess near death experiences, drug problems, attitude problems, having a child, getting kicked out of the marines and finding yourself as a person isn't interesting for you then? Fair enough. You must have a pretty high standard for what an interesting life is then lol.


But he didn't "find himself" he's just the same guy except not as big of a douche. A documentary just about "yeah he was a douche but now he's not as big of a douche" isn't riveting programming to me.

The reason why I hardly praise him is because he hasn't done anything for nearly two years, what is his character? what is it meant to be? he's just a guy who has wrestling matches, thats all he is right now. he has no defining personality, no character traits, no depth, nothing. Compare how good his character was in early 2009 to now, its a fucking joke. its a fucking joke how irrelevant he is now compared to how hot he was in 2009/2010. I'm just disappointed by him atm


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

CM Punk's title reign:

- vs Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) - ***1/2
- vs The Miz and Alberto Del Rio (TLC) - ****1/4
- vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) - ***1/2
- vs Dolph Ziggler, The Miz, Chris Jericho, R-Truth and Kofi Kingston (Elimination Chamber) - ***3/4
- vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania 28) - ***1/2
- vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) - ****1/4
- vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) - ****3/4 
- vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan (No Way Out) ***
- vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) - ***1/2
- vs Big Show and John Cena (SummerSlam) - **1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Survivor Series vs Alberto Del Rio : **** 
TLC vs Alberto Del Rio & The Miz : ****1/4
Royal Rumble vs Dolph Ziggler : ***1/2
Elimination Chamber vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston Vs R-Truth : ***1/2
Wrestlemania vs Chris Jericho : ****1/2
Extreme Rules vs Chris Jericho : ****1/4 
Over the Limit vs Daniel Bryan : ****3/4
No Way Out vs Daniel Bryan & Kane : ***3/4
Money in the Bank vs Daniel Bryan : ****1/2
Summerslam vs John Cena & Big Show : **

Based title reign based off matches in a long time.



> because it was perhaps the biggest display of SuperPunk


Explain this, plz.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Jesus Meltzer's star ratings for Punks title reign 

V Del Rio ***1/2
V Miz and Del Rio TLC ****1/4
V Ziggler ***1/2
V Ziggler, Jericho, Miz, Kofi, Truth EC ***1/4
V Jericho ***3/4
V Jericho street fight ***1/2
V Daniel Bryan ****1/2
V Kane and Daniel Bryan ***1/4
V Daniel Bryan street fight ****1/4
V Cena and Big Show **2/3


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

jblvdx said:


> Jesus Meltzer's star ratings for Punks title reign
> 
> V Del Rio ***1/2
> V Miz and Del Rio TLC ****1/4
> ...


THE LORD himself.

A 2/3 rating? Amateur hour. :side:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Brye said:


> THE LORD himself.
> 
> A 2/3 rating? Amateur hour. :side:


Shit. My bad, human error.

**3/4

Hopefully he doesn't find out.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

jblvdx said:


> Shit. My bad, human error.
> 
> **3/4
> 
> Hopefully he doesn't find out.


He sees all. :side:

I'd consider **3/4 high for that match. I really didn't care for it, especially compared to the rest of the reign.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> The only matches I can actually remember in detail are vs. Bryan @OTL and vs. Jericho @ER. The rest of them have been pretty much forgettable to me. I would have to go back and watch them all before I doled out ratings. The Bryan match was truly something special and the ER match with Jericho was awesome. The rest of them are just alright I suppose with the Mania match being at the higher end of the spectrum, otherwise I would have remembered them lol. What I can say is that he's had a very consistent reign but not very memorable at all. If he had the feuds to go with the matches I'd call it one of the better reigns we've seen but I don't think he's had even 1 great or even good feud since he won it. Hopefully he can provide at least something to remember this reign by with the current feud with Cena and then later with Rock if it happens or it will have all been for nought. It's actually quite appalling that he has held the title this long and is still seeking validation and/or a memorable moment.


I agree. It's good for CM Punk that the one thing he CAN control in his wrestling has been great throughout, but it would help if there was actually some substance to them. There's no point in being champion if you're gonna have a string of good-but-unmemorable matches. CM Punk was doing that long before he got the belt.


Ether said:


> Can someone rank these DVDs for me from best to worst, or just from which you've seen? Thanks, debating which one I should check out first.
> 
> The Streak 20-0
> Top 50 Finishers
> ...


1) Austin :mark: I'm rewatching this with someone next week I believe and I'm glad because it is so good. Excellent documentary on disc one (although pray tell, why mute out the cusses if it's an 18 release anyway?) and also great matches on discs 2 and 3. Disc 4 is my favourite because it has some of his greatest promos. A lot of people accuse Austin of being one dimensional on the mic but this disc with his earlier stuff proves all of it wrong. There was a chip on his shoulder the size of Texas after he was fired from WCW, and I'm glad they did it because it makes for great watching.

2) The documentary for the Edge set is also top notch. The main gripe with this is the match selection, which couldn't be helped because they had to follow a) time constraints and b) "The Story of Edge" itself. That means that the matches are quite common and sometimes not the best possible selection (eg Edge/Hardy ladder match instead of their cage match) but it's still all excellent stuff. 

3) I'm really iffy on Orton's set. I don't understand how they go out and mention something as touchy as his drug issues and him nearly dying, and then go and put in some kayfabed bit of him being 'furious' that he lost the Elimination Chamber. I don't remember the match selection but I think it was quite good too (except for matches like vs Hogan and vs Dusty Rhodes, but you understand why they're included)


jblvdx said:


> Top 5 wrestling documentary dvd's (based on the documentary themselves)
> 
> 1. Rise and Fall of ECW (untouchable, the closest thing WWE has produced that may be considered to be award material)
> 2. Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Bottom Line on the the most popular superstar of all time
> ...


I agree on your number one pick, but having read Michaels' and Jericho's books before watching their sets I was quite bored with the docs, because they didn't really have anything new to tell at all. They're still good releases for the matches and promo content, especially on Jericho's side. Oh and at the bolded, opinions are like buttholes and all that.

What does everyone think about Bragging Rights 2010? Bryan vs Ziggler is a top three favourite match for both men, and I really enjoy the elimination tag as well. I just miss the concept of brand animosity in WWE, it's so annoying that the whole supershow thing means it probably won't ever happen again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 documentaries:

1. Jake Roberts
2. ECW
3. Steve Austin
4. AWA
5. WCCW

Shame that with such a great track record of making docs on promotions, they managed to fuck up the WCW one. It was still good, but come on, a documentary on Jim Crockett Promotions/World Championship Wrestling, given its rich history and impact on the business, THAT was the best they could do? Bah.

Now they own the Mid-South library, PLEASE WWE, make that documentary.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I never watched Jake Robert's exclusive one but I watched Beyond the Mat and his life story sounds like nightmare feul. WCCW is quite tragic, but still worth the watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Beyond the Mat. I the only one who thinks its a pile of shit? Plus they fucked Jake over. Arseholes.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Bret Hart/Stone Cold (WM13) match with ALT commentary by Austin/Ross

Havn't watched this match in years but fuck me does it hold up, one of the best ever full stop, great hearing Austin comment throughout too and still speak so fondly about Bret and the match as a whole, great stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might have to give that match a watch with the alt commentary. Legit didn't realise I owned the DVD set until about 2 weeks ago when I went through my DVD collection to update my list :lmao. And that reminds me, need to update my list with my newest discs...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

For some reason I choose to watch Bret/Austin on the Bret DVD with the unsynced sound. :/ I ususally forget it's on the Austin one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> For some reason I choose to watch Bret/Austin on the Bret DVD with the unsynced sound. :/ I ususally forget it's on the Austin one.


The only blemish on the Bret DVD - quality control missed that one!!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You know, I've watched the match on that DVD numerous times and I've never noticed that it's out of sync :lmao. I'd check now but I'm too lazy .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Might have to give that match a watch with the alt commentary. Legit didn't realise I owned the DVD set until about 2 weeks ago when I went through my DVD collection to update my list :lmao. And that reminds me, need to update my list with my newest discs...



More DVD's than sense


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Watched some more random WWE PPV matches today, any other thoughts on the matches feel free to post. 

No Mercy 2008: Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
Backlash 2001: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - ****1/4
TLC 2010: Sheamus vs. John Morrison - ****
Night of Champions 2009: Dolph Ziggler vs. Rey Mysterio - ***1/4
St. Valentines Day Massacre 1999: The Rock vs. Mankind - ***3/4
Bad Blood 2004: Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - ***
The Bash 2009: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio - ****


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

No Mercy 2008: Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - Is this the ladder match? or the unsanctioned? (if ladder) ***3/4 (if unsanctioned) ***
Backlash 2001: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - ****
TLC 2010: Sheamus vs. John Morrison - ***
Night of Champions 2009: Dolph Ziggler vs. Rey Mysterio - ***
St. Valentines Day Massacre 1999: The Rock vs. Mankind - can't remember a thing about this one.
Bad Blood 2004: Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - ***1/2
The Bash 2009: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio - ****1/2 (loved this series)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> No Mercy 2008: Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - Is this the ladder match? or the unsanctioned? (if ladder) ***3/4 (if unsanctioned) ***


Ladder match mate, sure the Unsanctioned is Armageddon...


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Ladder match mate, sure the Unsanctioned is Armageddon...


Unforgiven actually.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Mercy 2008: Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
Backlash 2001: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - ****1/2
TLC 2010: Sheamus vs. John Morrison - ****1/4 (Morrison's best match ever, and one of the better singles ladder matches)
Night of Champions 2009: Dolph Ziggler vs. Rey Mysterio - Don't remember
St. Valentines Day Massacre 1999: The Rock vs. Mankind - ***3/4
Bad Blood 2004: Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - ***
The Bash 2009: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio - ***3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Unforgiven actually.


I stand corrected, thanks (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Armageddon and Jericho's post-HBK matches, what does everyone think of his matches with Cena in late 08?

I have the Survivor Series match at ***1/2 and have yet to see the Armageddon one. I think it's pretty stupid that Cena got a title shot out of nowhere, though. Was there ever an explanation on screen as to why he would just come back and get a title match?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Armageddon and Jericho's post-HBK matches, what does everyone think of his matches with Cena in late 08?
> 
> I have the Survivor Series match at ***1/2 and have yet to see the Armageddon one. I think it's pretty stupid that Cena got a title shot out of nowhere, though. Was there ever an explanation on screen as to why he would just come back and get a title match?


Because he won the big Summerslam blockbuster match against Batista! Oh wait...

... oh yeah he beat JBL at GAB in that brawl match... oh wait...

... ah, but of course he did become WWE Champion in 2008 when he defeated HHH in a hell of a match at Night of Champions...

... 

...

...

oh wait.

Ah, but it's not like he was the one pinned when he lost his and Batista's tag titles! Wait a minute... fuck!

Oh right, I think he beat Rhodes and Dibiase in a handicap match the night after SS. That's surely the reason he got that World Title match! I mean hey, HHH couldn't do that. 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol, he actually wrestled after SummerSlam even though his neck was broken?

*No Way Out 2004:*

Rikishi/Scotty 2 Hotty vs Basham Brothers/Shaniqua - **1/4
Jamie Noble vs Nidia - **
Shelton Benjamin/Charlie Haas (The World's Greatest Tag Team) vs Bradshaw/Farooq (APA) - **1/2
Hardcore Holly vs Rhyno - **
Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero - ***1/2
Kurt Angle vs John Cena vs Big Show - ****
Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero - ****3/4

Overall: **3/4 (An awful start for the first half of the PPV with mostly filler that barely serves any purpose but picks up in the second half with one decent match, a great triple threat and a classic title match when Eddie finally wins the big one! And I love San Francisco, why haven't WWE come here to a televised event or PPV ever since this? They were dead for most of the uninteresting stuff in the start but actually gave a damn for the matches that mattered. That said, this is an okay event that outside of the historic Eddie Guerrero title victory, doesn't have much to remember.)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, he actually wrestled after SummerSlam even though his neck was broken?


I vaguely remember him winning a match after Summerslam, and then taking time off.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have the full five stars on Lesnar/Guerrero. Absolutely love everything about it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hey guys, I'm doing a review on the Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin rivalry and most of the matches from the feud. I was wondering what are your thoughts on the feud and/or match ratings for what I believe is a Top 5 feud in WWF/E history. My review should be up sometime tomorrow in the *Classic Wrestling* section. I just have to do a write-up for the Canadian Stampede main event.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Yea man Stone Cold and Bret had some outstanding matches. They had a really good pair of matches, starting with Survivor Series 96. Haven't seen it in a minute, but it stood out to me as the more technical masterpiece. This is exactly what I love about Austin and his ability to work in two very different eras, and do it perfectly. Wasn't this match wrestled mostly between the ropes? Love the ending. You should probably check it out if you haven't.

Austin-Hart, Survivor Series, ****3/4

And, of course, you have the juggernaut that is WrestleMania 13 (only decent match on the card if I remember?). This is definitely the brawl of the two. (TANGENT: Funny to think about the contrast here in relation to other feuds. Angle/Lesnar. HBK/Bret even (The Screw Job was a hell of a brawl too!) A lot of great feuds have a lot of contrast between matches). But this match is just timeless for me, because everytime I watch it and Bret Hart has Stone Cold in the Sharpshooter, and the blood running down Austins face? That, to me, as nauseatingly cliche as I will be, is the definition of professional wrestling. The double-cross. The fact that Stone Cold was shot into the stratosphere pretty much because of this match. I have no problem giving this *****.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Armageddon and Jericho's post-HBK matches, what does everyone think of his matches with Cena in late 08?
> 
> I have the Survivor Series match at ***1/2 and have yet to see the Armageddon one. I think it's pretty stupid that Cena got a title shot out of nowhere, though. Was there ever an explanation on screen as to why he would just come back and get a title match?


I believe Shane McMahon gave Cena the title shot at Survivor Series to piss off Stephanie. They were having a mini sibling rivalry over being the Raw GM at that time iirc before it all led to Orton/McMahons at the start of 2009. He basically got a title shot because the PPV was in Boston and he's John Cena lol.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Austin-Hart is indeed one of the greatest feuds of any promotion of all time, purely for the fact that it was the first time in recent memory of a heel turning face just by being himself. Austin I believe was at his absolute best here, with his character a revelation. Gnashing away at authority figures like Gorilla Monsoon lent a real vibe also, along with people semi-involved in the storyline, like Undertaker, Sid, HBK, Owen, Bulldog etc. If you have the chance to watch this feud as far as going to watch every segment it offered, then do it.

Austin-Hart (Survivor Series 96) - ****
Austin-Hart (Wrestlemania 13) - *****
Austin-Hart (In Your House) - ****
Austin, Goldust, Shamrock and LOD vs. Hart Foundation (Canadian Stampede) - *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Austin-Hart (Survivor Series 96) - ***** (my fav)
Austin-Hart (South Africa 96) - ****
Austin-Hart (Wrestlemania 13) - *****
Austin-Hart (In Your House) - I don't remember this much
Austin, Goldust, Shamrock and LOD vs. Hart Foundation (Canadian Stampede) - ****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I believe Shane McMahon gave Cena the title shot at Survivor Series to piss off Stephanie. They were having a mini sibling rivalry over being the Raw GM at that time iirc before it all led to Orton/McMahons at the start of 2009. He basically got a title shot because the PPV was in Boston and he's John Cena lol.


And what did Jericho do to deserve this? They can't even bother to give a proper explanation... 



Brye said:


> I have the full five stars on Lesnar/Guerrero. Absolutely love everything about it.


Amazing match, there's just a little something that's missing which keeps it from 5 stars for me. One of my favorite parts is when Eddie reaches out to the sky in a Bearhug (I think) to make a comeback. Pretty touching.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Daniel Bryan Superstar Collection*

_Daniel Bryan vs Chris Jericho NXT 02/23/2010_

It’s funny to think that such a dream match was on NXT, out of the 2 years of NXT action this is the one match I remember most. I had followed both guys’ careers (being huge fans of both of them) and I had hoped that if Bryan ever signed with the WWE these guys would face off. At the time this was a huge rub for Bryan because Jericho was the reigning World Heavyweight Champion, how many rookies get to face the World Heavyweight Champion in their first match?

This was a great little match here, which showcased what these guys are capable of doing with such little time, and to the mainstream WWE audience why many people including myself think that Daniel Bryan is the best wrestler in the world. The bump on the announce table was just plain nasty, and the bruising showed instantly. The chemistry was great as you would expect from these two and hopefully one day they will tie it up on a big stage. I say Daniel Bryan vs Chris Jericho Wrestlemania 29. Not exactly the best match in NXT history due to time constraints, but without a doubt the memorable that’s for sure.

*** 3/4*

_United States Championship: The Miz(c) vs Daniel Bryan Night of Champions 2010_

Firstly, I can’t think of a more underrated feud in recent memory then this one, and quite honestly this was my feud of the year for 2010. This is one time I believe that the WWE genuinely booked a rivalry to near perfection and probably the only time I was looking forward to a US title match the most on a pay per view card. 

This was a great match which you expect when Daniel Bryan is involved, but kudos to Miz he really held his own in this one. This was the kind of match that Miz needed to justify his main event run later on in the year, as he went move-for-move with the best technical wrestler in the world. The arm and shoulder psychology by Miz was spot on and as you would expect from Bryan his selling was immaculate. Just all around great stuff from two of the future stars of the business, and easily in my mind the best singles match in the career of the Miz.

**** 3/4*

_Money in the Bank Ladder Match: Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Kane vs Heath Slater vs Justin Gabriel vs Sheamus vs Sin Cara Money in the Bank 2011_

This was a great MITB ladder match which definitely was helped with the extra time given, and kudos to the WWE they gave 25 minutes for this match to showcase all the young talent they have on arguably one of the most anticipated PPV’s in recent memory. The thing I liked most about this match is that they legitimately gave every star in the match equal time in control and look like they could potentially win the match. Also I love how they played off old storylines such as the Corre working together and then turning their backs on each other once Barrett became a power hungry leader again. It’s interesting that the two biggest wins of Bryan’s career at that point both came in Chicago. You could see the genuine emotion on his face when he brought down the contract, this was a guy who had sacrificed 12 years of his life for this profession and was only one match away from winning a title that no one ever thought he would achieve. Probably one of the best MITB ladder matches ever, it was just a thrill to watch and Bryan winning definitely made things better for me on a personal note.

******

_Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry Smackdown 11/4/11_

I definitely would have preferred his world title win instead of this, but I understand that they wanted to show the transition of how they get to the Royal Rumble cage match with Bryan, Show and Henry, which is the next and final match of the set. This was a nice little TV match here, Henry was in the best form of his life and Bryan is amazing at playing the underdog character. Big Show comes in after Bryan was down and knocked Henry out, and then they teased Bryan’s cash in only to get dropped by Henry when he tries to. I would have preferred his matches against Show closer to the rumble then this as it set up the story of Bryan always sneaking away with the victory, and of course the start of the global juggernaut that is the YES chants, but nonetheless this was fun while it lasted. 

****

_World Heavyweight Championship: Daniel Bryan(c) vs Big Show vs Mark Henry Royal Rumble 2012_

For what it was, this was pretty good in my view. Mark Henry had a job to walk with his ankle injury and Show was supposedly coming in with a bad back also. But that’s ok if anyone in the world can drag out a good 8-10 minute match with these huge liabilities it’s that boy D-Bryan. Bryan made these guys look like monsters, however due to their injuries at points it kind of dragged when Bryan was down. I loved the finish how Bryan once again weaselled his way to victory. Without a doubt the best moment of this match though was the post-match celebration of D-Bryan, it was like he had won the Super Bowl. This was a lot better than it probably had the right to be, with both Henry and Show full strength this might have been borderline great.

*** 3/4*

_Thoughts_

The WWE absolutely got the first 3 matches on this set completely right, they had his much anticipated debut and at that time the 2 biggest wins of his career. I actually think they did a good job with this set, I may have changed a few things such as the Henry match and had his title win but that’s really the only thing. The biggest problem with this set is that Bryan’s career has skyrocketed since Mania, and the last match on the set was 2 months prior at the Royal Rumble. That’s not the WWE’s fault as such but this definitely could have benefitted, if it came out 6 months later. Think of if they had his match against Sheamus at Extreme Rules or against Punk at Over the limit, this could have been probably the best Superstar Collection DVD yet. However if you’re a D-Bryan fan like myself this is a must buy, the 90 minutes of action just flew by. I just can’t wait for when D-Bryan’s own documentary DVD comes out. For less than $10 dollars, this is an absolute steal.

*Rating: 7/10*

My next NOC review should be up in a few days.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What does everyone think of the match listing for Punk's DVD? It's good for what it is but the DVD only runs for 7 hours, which means they could have easily fit more matches on there. Looks like they got most of the important matches in there though.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Excited to read that the upcoming Rock/Cena documentary is NOT the same one as the TV special that aired 

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/exclusive-photos-wwe-rock-cena-once-in-a-lifetime-dvd/26446/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh, I'm... not excited to read that . A documentary between 2 shitty wrestlers about their shitty feud being different from the shitty documentary they already did on their shitty feud doesn't interest me. What are the odds of THAT? 

Punk set thoughts? Happy about these matches being there:

Brent Albright OVW
William Regal Raw
John Cena MITB (so I can own it on bluray should I pick this set up)

Everything else is hit and miss for me. Already available or not interesting enough for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I picked up Elimination Chamber 2011 on DVD for £1.90, new and sealed from Amazon, think ill give it a watch in abit, havn't seen an EC in years, but have read positive things in here about last years.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I totally agree with Bryan giving Miz the best match of his career. It's arguable Bryan also gave Ziggler and Punk (well at least in WWE) their best matches as well. What WWE is currently doing with his character is entertaining although I prefer some more serious feuds for him eventually. Nice write-up for the set. I won't be picking it up, though.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Huh, I'm... not excited to read that . A documentary between 2 shitty wrestlers about their shitty feud being different from the shitty documentary they already did on their shitty feud doesn't interest me. What are the odds of THAT?


Let's be serious now. Sure, it has that Cena bloke involved so the greatness level drops slightly. But it's about a feud involving the single greatest man to ever be part of the professional wrestling industry. He's The Rock. He wrestles, sets records, makes movies, and stops robberies. I don't think his life could get any better. And he's more entertaining that that undead guy you like so much (Y)

Anyways, the backstage stuff interests me a great deal!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You said let's be serious now... but I'm not sure... .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I saw the words 'single greatest man to ever be a part of the professional wrestling industry' but the post did not imply this man was one of Eddie Guerrero, Terry Funk, Jerry Lawler, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Rey Mysterio, Finlay, Stan Hansen, Volk Han, Kiyoshi Tamura, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Bobby Eaton, Ricky Morton, Bill Dundee, Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu, Barry Windham, Buddy Rose or Arn Anderson. WHAT IS THIS SHIT!!

Anyways, the latest WWE match that I'll 100% include on my Top 100 Matches (Worldwide) of the Decade (2000-2009) ballot:


*Matt Hardy vs Finlay - (WWE Smackdown 06/22/2007)*

Tremendous, tremendous match which right now could end up as high as my top 50, I loved it that much. Hardy might be one of the most underrated workers of the decade at least in the WWE because people either remember him for his Hardy Boyz days or his supposed mental breakdown in recent years, but in 2006-2008 especially he was having regularly good-great matches with a variety of opponents and he's in no way carried by Finlay here. There's some great little character moments here that you come to expect in Finlay matches, things like them struggling to force a break in a lock-up in the corner and Finlay trying to intimidate Hardy who motions him to 'bring it on', just really set the stage for what was to occur. Finlay throws a couple of vicious World of Sport esque forearms when Hardy goes for consecutive arm wringers, and Hardy's sell of the first one was Fujiwara esque: just collapses and stumbles into the ropes like his legs have just crumbled beneath him. Match really takes off however when Hardy gets yanked off the tope rope and lands awkwardly on his knee, which Cole and JBL point out took 10 months off of his career in 2004. Finlay is meticulous and devastating on offence with a variety of unique takedowns and submissions targeting the leg, but Hardy's selling is legit one of the finest selling performances I've seen in this time period. He just constantly hobbles and barely puts any pressure on the left leg, there's this one super moment where he goes to clothesline Finlay and essentially just collapses into him as he attempts to move a couple of yards. Finlay's entire control segment is just incredibly engaging with him being a vicious bastard and doing various unique touches to sell his desire to cripple Hardy, stuff like him removing the knee brace and finding ways to utilise every part of the ringside area such as a nifty spot where he just launches Hardy knee first into the steps and then has this awesome forced apology to the referee. Finish is excellent with them teasing a Finlay screwjob via the shillelagh only for Hardy to catch a cocky Finlay with a sudden twist of fate for the flash victory.

Incredible selling performance from Hardy complimented by a unique and vicious workover by Finlay, both men brought the violence with some tremendous strikes (Hardy throws this AWESOME punch combo which has Finlay rocking against the ropes) and just lay the match out with some excellent character traits that develop as the match progresses. Everything you can want in a wrestling match and will definitely do well on my list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hardy/Finlay really blew me away when I watched it last week (I think- sometime in August anyway). I think it suffered from missing a bit of a proper finish stretch but those two just mesh so well together and it was a truly great match. Honestly other than Cena/Umaga I'd probably put it next to any WWE match of 2007. Finlay/Rey from November might be just as good. Motherfuckin' FINLAY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Random ratings:

Survivor Series 2007: Batista vs Undertaker - ***3/4
Armageddon 2007: Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Judgement Day 2008: John Cena vs JBL - *
Armageddon 2008: Batista vs Randy Orton - **1/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Hardy/Finlay really blew me away when I watched it last week (I think- sometime in August anyway). I think it suffered from missing a bit of a proper finish stretch but those two just mesh so well together and it was a truly great match. Honestly other than Cena/Umaga I'd probably put it next to any WWE match of 2007. Finlay/Rey from November might be just as good. Motherfuckin' FINLAY.


I could understand the abrupt finish maybe being a bit anti-climatic, but in this instance I actually thought it added to the leg injury Hardy was selling and came off like a desperation move to end the match rather than try to fight what was slowly becoming an impossible battle.

Watched a series of Finlay/Mysterio matches from 2007 the other week, best of the bunch was the 9/11/07 bout and it'll be between that and the 3/24/06 match between them which makes my eventual list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, I think that's about as good an explanation for a quick finish as any, but it sort of made Finlay look, IDK, not "weak", but if he's tearing a leg for a million minutes and loses after one move. IDK. I'm not sure I actually would rate it any higher with a stronger ending, so IDK where I'm going with this. It's a great, great match. Three IDKs.

I watched 3/24/06 recently as well as part of 2006 SD viewing (JBL's US Title celebration was magnificent BTW) and it so holds up. Dunno which Rey/Finlay I'd say is the best one. Finlay/Hardy is probably better than all of them.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I understand Finlay could have been made out to look a fool, but I kinda dig that in wrestling when its done right. E.G Benjamin vs Maven from New Years Revolution 2005 is just incredibly poorly done in making the heel look a bit foolish and undeservedly arrogant, with Hardy/Finlay I think they just about covered it what with the Hornswoggle distraction and shillelagh being a staple of Finlay finishes regularly to the point that I bought it as the finish only to have Hardy catch Finlay out when he was overcome with arrogance. 


I haven't been able to track down 3/24 yet so I'm going off of memory. Tbh I probably wouldn't disagree with Hardy/Finlay being better than any of the Mysterio/Finlay bouts. Guess it just depends on how well Finlay does offence wise and how well Mysterio bumps and works his hope spots in. But Hardy's performance especially makes it unlikely Mysterio/Finlay would top it.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Finlay v Mysterio (No Mercy 07) = **3/4
Finlay v Mysterio (Cyber Sunday 07) = ***3/4


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Watched disc 1 of 'The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event' and it was not as good as I expected it to be. It was entertaining and there no really bad matches. But match quality was generally rather average and nothing that takes it to a that next level. Still though the other discs may redeem it.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Anyone order Used DVDs from GoHastings? 40% off sale Used DVD's.. $14 for Stone Cold 4 disk, Edge Decade of Decadence, MITB 2011, and TNA Ultimate Matches, sounds a little too good to be true?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Yea man Stone Cold and Bret had some outstanding matches. They had a really good pair of matches, starting with Survivor Series 96. Haven't seen it in a minute, but it stood out to me as the more technical masterpiece. This is exactly what I love about Austin and his ability to work in two very different eras, and do it perfectly. Wasn't this match wrestled mostly between the ropes? Love the ending. You should probably check it out if you haven't.
> 
> Austin-Hart, Survivor Series, ****3/4
> 
> And, of course, you have the juggernaut that is WrestleMania 13 (only decent match on the card if I remember?). This is definitely the brawl of the two. (TANGENT: Funny to think about the contrast here in relation to other feuds. Angle/Lesnar. HBK/Bret even (The Screw Job was a hell of a brawl too!) A lot of great feuds have a lot of contrast between matches). But this match is just timeless for me, because everytime I watch it and Bret Hart has Stone Cold in the Sharpshooter, and the blood running down Austins face? That, to me, as nauseatingly cliche as I will be, is the definition of professional wrestling. The double-cross. The fact that Stone Cold was shot into the stratosphere pretty much because of this match. I have no problem giving this *****.


Austin's crimson mask defines Stone Cold's career and I mentioned that in my review. I agree with your assessment of their two classics.

Ratings for the Austin/Hart rivalry:

Kuwait 5/9/1996 - *** 1/4
South Africa 9/14/1996 - *** 3/4
Survivor Series 1996 - **** 3/4
WrestleMania 13 - *****
Revenge of the Taker 1997 - ****
Street Fight Raw 4/21/1997 - N/R, but fantastic segment
Canadian Stampede 1997 - **** 1/4


And just to throw it in there: Hart/Austin/Undertaker/Vader Final Four 1997 - **** 1/4


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> Let's be serious now. Sure, it has that Cena bloke involved so the greatness level drops slightly. But it's about a feud involving the single greatest man to ever be part of the professional wrestling industry. He's The Rock. He wrestles, sets records, makes movies, and stops robberies. I don't think his life could get any better. And he's more entertaining that that undead guy you like so much (Y)
> 
> Anyways, the backstage stuff interests me a great deal!


GOAT. 


admiremyclone said:


> Excited to read that the upcoming Rock/Cena documentary is NOT the same one as the TV special that aired
> 
> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/exclusive-photos-wwe-rock-cena-once-in-a-lifetime-dvd/26446/


Good to know because they filmed so much material all over the world for over a year, to waste all that on a 45 minutes special would be a stupid move. Also agree on the backstage extras, there's a segment where Rock and Cena are talking about the WM28 match for 10-15 minutes each, probably a review which should be interesting. Then there's all the things on the road, a lot of it was in the video packages from Royal Rumble to Mania, I would love to see what they filmed in MSG before the Survivor Series PPV, they're always showing that pic of Rock in the ring looking at the set. The film cut version of the match should be great, they showed parts of it in the NBC special.


> # Typewriter
> # A Dozen Eggs
> # Hungry?
> # Blaisdell Center
> ...


Plenty of exclusive content.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^ Yep, looks like there should be some good stuff on there. I'm especially interested in seeing the film cut of the match. They've shown clips of the film cut of the Rock/Austin match from Wrestlemania 19 and it looks great. I wish they'd do more matches this way.

I wonder if there will be any comments from Rock or Cena about the now infamous promo notes on the wrist thing, or any comments on how they tried to purposely diminish Rock's popularity just to make Cena seem less hated and more on Rock's level.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Boy those chapter names really make the rivalry seem personal. Especially things like "Grilled Cheese" and "The Kidman Spot"


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

It's not the doc, just the extras. The titles of the documentary:


> * After 7 Long Years
> * A Year in the Making
> * The People’s Champ
> * The New Face of the WWE
> ...


Edit - I meant the cover in the DVD, on the disc sides. They should do more DVDs like that, not even a Bret/Shawn interview, just all the segments/matches and extras.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^Pictures aren't showing.

Wish the doc was longer than 45 mins.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For the UK'ers, i have a free copy (i made a couple of extras just to make sure the files worked) of a 3-Disc DVD Set:

Greatest Rivalries: Kane vs Undertaker

Can't post exactly on what it contains as there are no menus, but after a quick flick it seems to include all the promos/matches from the beginning of the fued onwards, here is a cover:



Just PM me if anyone wants a copy (just UK 'cos of postage)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Rock/Cena DVD sounds pretty interesting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Wrestlemania 28

Seamus/Bryan - ******** (GOAT match of all time 8*D)
Orton/Kane - ****1/2*
Show/Cody - ***3/4*
HHH/Taker - *******
Rock/Cena - ***** for the match and *** for the crowd = ******

Saving Punk/Jericho for tomorrow since it's late and I'm tired. Taker/HHH still holds up. I love every second of that thing. This was the first time I have seen Rock/Cena since I was there. It didn't hold up. I didn't remember the match being so slow tbh and I think it's very evident that Rock was a bit out of breath at times. Either that or he sells like a mother fucker lol. The memory of being there live and the crowd make it special though. I've had a change of heart and am now looking forward to the Rock/Cena DVD. It should be interesting to say the least, the documentary and backstage stuff anyways. Orton/Kane was much better than it had any right to be. Show/Cody was meh and I still don't understand why the fuck Show won. Ever since that loss Cody has been on a horrible downward spiral. He deserves better. Fuck Show, even if he cried lol. I'll watch Punk/Jericho tomorrow.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't remember liking the match with Orton but Kane is that kind of worker. I've seen so many of his matches described as "Better than it had any right to be", he seems to be the king of that.

Show/Cody was blegh  ** maybe, Cody tried his best but Big Show has been the annihilator of all things good in 2012 and this was no exception. He won because Cody's heel schtick against him was making fun of the fact that he always flopped at Wrestlemania, and he's the heel so he can't actually be shown as right (god forbid.)

I have Rock/Cena at like ***, maybe a fraction more. I get how that would be a whole different experience actually live though. 

I won't put a star rating on the cell match but I watched it like five times and it was good every time. It was kind of weird actually, the replays ran the whole week after Wrestlemania and every time I turned the TV it would be at the start of that match or gone a few minutes through. Every time, bar maybe once or twice.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If they shaved a few minutes off Rock/Cena it would have been much better imo. I still enjoyed it and I have the memory of being there in my head so I guess I'm slightly biased lol. As an actual match without all the atmosphere etc, it's a 3* match at best. But put it in context and it gets bumped up, for me anyways.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Maybe The Rock struggled during the match because Cena's top rope legdrop tore his hamstring? But yeah, they could've still trimmed ten mins off the match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Looked like he was struggling a bit before that tbh. I don't know and it doesn't matter now. Maybe Cena will shoot on the DVD and tell us that he had to carry Rock's winded ass or something lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it was still good and at ***1/4 for a normal match at the very least. The atmosphere and "big time" feel no doubt upped it by one-star for me, though. I was highly into it and so was the crowd and they did a good job for a match where one guy has ring-rust.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

The day after Mania I had Rock/Cena at four stars, the match was probably *** territory but the atmosphere and feeling of the match combined with the crowd plus the fact that the ending made me mark out bigger than I have done for years pushed it up to **** for me. No Doubt HHH/Taker was MOTN and it is probably on balance my MOTY so far, the story telling in that match was just immense and the whole match felt to me like it finished the story arc which began at Mania 25, love the match and it gets the full ***** from me.

Punk and Jericho was a weird match for me, I liked the beginning a lot with Jericho trying to get Punk to snap and the ending sequence I remember was great but the middle seemed to drag for me and I can't remember too much about it, will have to give it a rewatch to give a proper assessment of it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****3/4 for Taker/HHH
****1/2 for Punk/Jericho
**3/4 for Cena/Rock


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Taker/Triple H was really great. Just an all out war, two guys throwing haymakers and beating the crap out of each other inside the Cell. MOTN for sure. *****1/2*

Jericho/Punk was wonderful and had a real old school feel to it. Crowd was a little quiet at the start, probably due to being nackered after HIAC. But as the match progressed the crowd became louder and louder. It told a great story and built to a really good finish. *****1/4*

Rock/Cena was spectacle, as it should be. Definitely too long, there's a middle bit that really drags. Take off 10 minutes and it'd be far better, and perhaps Rock would be less nackered. Still, for his first singles match in 9 years he was fantastic. The end is probably in my top 3 match endings EVER. I thought for sure they were going to have Cena go over, but I suppose it was just not meant to be. Not many pops bigger than when Rock got the win. Stadium looked like it exploded! ****3/4*

Now they're going to ruin it all by having Rock/Cena II with Cena getting his win. Awful, just awful.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

On a completely unrelated note...

*Judgement Day 2006*

MNM/Londrick - *** 1/2
Benoit/Finlay - **** 3/4 - I may be overrating this but fuck! What a match! WWE MOTY, for sure!
Jillian/Melina - DUD
Helms/Crazy - ** 1/2
Henry/Angle - *** 1/4
Booker/Lashley - * 1/2
Khali/Taker - *** - Better than I thought
Rey/JBL - ***

A very average show with a sprinkle of AWESOME in Finlay/Benoit. The tag title match is very fun, Henry vs. Angle is decent for what it is, as is Taker and Khali. I thought JBL/Mysterio could have been a little bit better but whatever, it's definitely not bad. Booker vs. Lashley was very boring, IMO and the worst match on the card other than Jillian/Melina. Helms/Crazy is as you would expect from the two, nothing groundbreaking but nothing bad.

*Required Viewing:*
MNM vs. Londrick
Finlay vs. Benoit

*Recomended Viewing:*
Henry vs. Angle
Taker vs. Khali
Rey vs. JBL

*Recomended to avoid*
Jillian vs. Melina
Booker vs. Lashley


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Someone asked on another forum about what PPV's are OOP in the UK, these are the ones i think atm in case anyone is interested:

Unforgiven 2002 and 2003
No Way Out 2004
Bad Blood 2003 
Backlash 2003
Armagedden 2002 (i think)
Summerslam 2002
Royal Rumble 2003
Survivor Series 2002 and 2003
No Mercy 2002
No Mercy 2003
Summerslam 2003
Backlash 2005
WM 24 (is this because of the Mayweather copyright crap)

Still would like a handful of those too, guess ill have to get them Used as some new go for close/over £20 now (i did get JD 2004 today Used, EX condition).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anything with WWF instead of WWE too, so WM 15, SummerSlam 99, RR 00, WM 16, KOTR 00, SS 00, SS 00, 01 PPV's (minus NWO which wasn't released), then the 02 PPV's before the WWE name, and of course any superstar sets that came out during that time. Thank god for tagged classics!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Anything with WWF instead of WWE too, so WM 15, SummerSlam 99, RR 00, WM 16, KOTR 00, SS 00, SS 00, 01 PPV's (minus NWO which wasn't released), then the 02 PPV's before the WWE name, and of course any superstar sets that came out during that time. Thank god for tagged classics!


Ah yeah forgot about those ones, i forgot they were released on thier own before they 'became' Tagged Classics. as you say mate - thank god for those,

Seems strange it's mostly from the Ruthless Agression Era for the most part...


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I just rewatched Cena/Miz WM27. That shit was worse than I remember, if it main evented RAW it would still be average and boring as fuck. Not worth of main eventing a Wrestlemania and ultimately a huge disappointment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Amazing that they thought The Jiz was capable of having a good main event match, never mind at WrestleFUCKINGMania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Benoit/Finlay - **** 3/4 - I may be overrating this but fuck! What a match! WWE MOTY, for sure!


Absolutely awesome match. I have it at **** even though I may need a rewatch to see if it's better or worse than I remember it being.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Amazing that they thought The Jiz was capable of having a good main event match, never mind at WrestleFUCKINGMania.


Hey c'mon The Miz is a pretty good wrestler alot of the time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

But certainly not Wrestlemania main event material. I don't even hate The Miz and I think it was a HUGE mistake to give him that spotlight. Main event should have just been Taker vs HHH since no other match fit that position. I think had it not been for The Rock's involvement, they would have had the streak match go on last as well.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Well I will agree that HHH/Taker should have gone on last. That was the match everyone remembered. Same thing with Wrestlemania 25.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only Jiz matches worth seeing imo are the PPV match again Bryan and TLC against Lawler on Raw. I hear good things about a Raw match between Cena and Miz after WM at some point, but yeah, my apathy for Jiz means I likely won'y ever watch it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah he was clearly overshadowed by Cena and Rock in the main event anyway. What a joke that was.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Did you enjoy his Summerslam match?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah but I credit the fact that Rey can have a good match with anyone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I didn't watch it. I tend to avoid Jiz matches if I can .


----------



## GEOLINK (Oct 24, 2011)

Ordered some imports from Amazon UK: Hell in a Cell, Vengeance, and Night of Champions 2011. The only region-free U.K. exclusive Blu-ray's I was missing.


----------



## manoverboard1619 (Apr 14, 2009)

God I just picked up a hell of a DVD lot today at my local store 
King of the ring 01- 6 dollars 
King of the ring 02- 10 dollars
And drum roll please

Judgment day 2002- 10 dollars


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Well Taker/HHH was built up terribly and it probably wouldn't have as much time as the main event.


----------



## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Hey c'mon The Miz is a pretty good wrestler alot of the time.
> 
> Says the guy with Anderson in his avatar. fpalm


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

Shawn Michaels and Edge's Top 10 Matches?


----------



## Firallon (Feb 25, 2012)

Heavenly Invader said:


> Says the guy with Anderson in his avatar. fpalm


Says the man with "Just shut the fuck up and let me fuck your ass" in his avatar fpalm

The Miz puts on some good matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Miz/Morrison from '11, Miz/Bryan from NOC '10, Miz/Cena from 5/2/11 and Miz/Bryan Raw '11 are the only good ones I can really think of. Plenty of good tsg matches with Morrison, though.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Some of Rock's part from the Rock/Cena DVD, Rock backstage in Boston, hugging HHH, Big Show, Pat with The Millions chanting his name in the background:






Can't wait for this, especially after seeing all the backstage footage here.

WM28:

Rock/Cena - ****1/2 (1/2+ for the perfect finish, amazing atmosphere, the believable nearfalls, Rock's oscar selling and overall spectacle)
Taker/HHH/HBK - ****3/4
Jericho/Punk - ***1/4(Great last 5 minutes with some good exchanges and nearfalls, the rest of the match was completely forgettable and the crowd wasn't into it)
Orton/Kane - ***(Watched it only one time. Decent match)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MOAR BACKSTAGE DVDS PLZ. 

That looks cool.


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

The unseen footage/backstage stuff will probably be worth checking out, otherwise there is not much from their feud I am interested in seeing again


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The backstage stuff on the Rock/Cena DVD might be cool. Feud still sucked so I'm not getting it.

Star ratings for the top three matches of WM 28

HHH V Taker HIAC ****3/4 (might be rating this a bit high, but damn this is great theatre)

Punk V Jericho ****

Rock V Cena ***1/2 (I understand that people rate this highly because of the atmosphere and spectacle, but the crowd didn't seem as consistently loud as they were in the HIAC match. The end pop is massive though. But yeah, Rock look tired, Cena did very mundane rib work, and it went on ten minutes to long. As a wrestling match its much better then Hogan v Rock, but as a spectacle its no way near as good)


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

CM Punk got quite mad at Rock that night in Boston. :rocky


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

Don't you mean CM Phil?

Anyway not to derail this thread, MY STAR RATINGS for Mania big 3:

Rock/Cena - *** 1/2
Punk/Jericho - *** 15/16 
Triple H/Taker - **** 1/2


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I really mean CM Midget.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Dwayne "The Tooth Fairy" Johnson got owned that night in Boston by John Cena. 

John Cena said Rock wrote notes on his arm and it was so funny.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Tnmore said:


> Shawn Michaels and Edge's Top 10 Matches?


I will do my 5 favourites of each because the 'best' is sometimes a lot different from my favourites.

Shawn:
vs Undertaker x3 (Wrestlemania 25 + 26, Badd Blood)
vs Jericho Wrestlemania XIX
vs Cena RAW 2007


Edge:
vs Ziggler Royal Rumble 2011
vs Eddie Smackdown 2001
vs Hardy Unforgiven 2005
vs Cena Unforgiven 2006
vs Undertaker Summerslam 2008


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Heavenly Invader said:


> Says the guy with Anderson in his avatar. fpalm


Well tbh Anderson is far from my favorite wrestler anymore. I've just had this pic and name since I joined. Not that Anderson is a bad wrestler.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Green Light said:


> Don't you mean CM Phil?





The-Rock-Says said:


> I really mean CM Midget.


CM G.O.A.T more like. :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anderson is a terrible wrestler. Had a GREAT year from mid-06 to mid 07 (between injures). After that he went downhill, and now in TNA he's fallen so far its incredible. Shame because he really was a big prospect 6 years ago . I'd say Miz is slightly better atm. But barely.

Top 5 for HBK (too lazy to do a top 10 lol):

5. Vs Razor SummerSlam
4. Vs Mankind Mind Games
3. Vs Undertaker WM 25
2. Vs Undertaker WM 26
1. Vs Undertaker Bad Blood

Top 5 Edge matches:

5. w/Mick Foley Vs Dreamer & Funk One Night Stand
4. w/Mysterio Vs Angle & Benoit Smackdown
3. w/Mysterio Vs Angle & Benoit No Mercy
2. w/Christian Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Jericho & Benoit Smackdown
1. Vs Undertaker WM 24


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 10 Shawn Michaels: (only 2002-forward and no specific order except top 2)

vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
vs Chris Benoit vs HHH - Wrestlemania XX
vs John Cena - Raw 2007
vs HHH - SummerSlam 2002
vs Randy Orton - Survivor Series 2007
vs Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 21
vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
vs Chris Benoit vs HHH - Backlash 2004
vs Shelton Benjamin - Raw 2005
vs Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XIX

I need to check out his 2008 matches with Jericho and his other two with Angle plus most of his pre-1998 matches as well. (specially HIAC with Taker) I need to watch more Edge matches before I make a list, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well... After about a week I finally got my internet set up on campus , good to get back and talk some STARZ and such with you fuckers 

HBK Top 5 :

5. vs Chris Benoit vs Triple H WM XX
4. vs Triple H SS 02
3. vs Undertaker WM XXVI
2. vs Undertaker WM XXV
1. vs Undertaker BB 97

Top 5 Edge Matches (SINGLEZ) :

5. vs Ric Flair RAW 06
4. vs Matt Hardy UNF 05
3. vs Cena UNF 06
2. vs Undertaker SS 08
1. vs Undertaker WM XXIV


----------



## FearIs4UP (Apr 8, 2007)

Anderson is pretty awful now. From what I can remember, he has always been terrible and awkward in-ring.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He was just unsafe. Either he or the guy he worked with would get injured far too often. He might've had some potential in other areas but if you're constantly sidelined (or sidelining others), you won't last long.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FearIs4UP said:


> Anderson is pretty awful now. From what I can remember, he has always been terrible and awkward in-ring.


Agree with that one, the only matches i enjoy watching of his are two against The Undertaker (one was a last ride - forgot the other one lol). Could be more one other from an 06/07 PPV against someone, can't remember atm...


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

HBK Top 10: 

10. vs. Razor Ramon Ladder/SSlam 1995
9. vs Ric Flair WM 24
8. vs. Triple H SSlam 2002
7. vs. Chris Jericho WM 19 
6. vs. Kurt Angle WM 21
5. vs. Triple H & Chris Benoit WM 20 
4. vs. Mankind Mind Games
3. vs. Undertaker WM 26
2. vs. Undertaker WM 25
1. vs. Undertaker Bad Blood


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He had a good match against HBK the last Raw of 07 (carried obviously).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ya'll need to get watching SD 06. Guy had a TON of great TV matches once he returned mid year. Chris Benoit, Finlay, Lashey, Mysterio and Kane, and then the PPV matches against Batista and Undertaker, and an awesome house show match in Germany against Undertaker that I prefer to their PPV matches. Then his 07 before he got injured had another great Undertaker match on TV, Batista on PPV, and some other stuff I'm likely forgetting .

After he comes back from the injury in 07 he sucked.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm still going through 2006 SDs here and there so I'll properly re-judge when I get to it, but Kennedy/Anderson is a piece of fucking garbage who isn't at good anything. There really aren't that many wrestlers in history I like less than him.


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Evan Bourne vs Matt Hardy Cyber Sunday 2008 ***3/4
Evan Bourne vs Chris Jericho ****
Evan Bourne is a very talented competitor if he doesn't smoke too much synthetic marijuana and rehabs his ankle he may have a bright future in the WWE


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Just watched the Austin doc, some really great stuff. lol at when HHH said leaving the company wasn't the right thing to do, it sounded like he was scared that Austin would beat the shit out of him or something. Also, I agree with Austin that the Austin/Bischoff coGM thing ended too soon. I also lol'd at Austin basically shitting on the WM14 match, although I can't blame him for it. Didn't even get to the extras yet, and it's already one of my favorite WWE DVDs.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Top 5 Edge matches:

I'm not going to include any tag matches he was in, so the credit is fully on Edge's performance. But he's had many great tag team matches, especially teaming with Christian in TLC matches.

1) vs John Cena - Unforgiven (TLC) 2006.
2) vs Matt Hardy - Unforgiven (Steel Cage) 2005.
3) vs Undertaker - WrestleMania 24.
4) vs Ric Flair - RAW 2006 (TLC).
5) vs Dolph Ziggler - Royal Rumble 2011.

I always thought Edge worked better in hardcore matches, and the TLC match is my all-time favorite match type. His match with Cena at Unforgiven 2006 was just awesome, and when you combine that with how good the feud was (best feud of 2006 easily) and the crowd, it's my favorite Edge match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's the first match.

From last night's episode of Superstars, am I the only one that thinks Cesaro/Gabriel was a legit TV MOTYC? I don't know what it was about it, and I'm generally not one for picking apart matches and analysing them, but I personally thought it was a great match and off of the top of my head, the only TV MOTY that beats it was Punk/Henry I. It may just be me and my weird tastes, but whatever. Even if you don't think it is a TV MOTYC, it's still one of the better matches and definitely the best Cesaro match since his debut and the best Gabriel singles match. Give it a watch, definitely worth it for a sub 9 minute match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Put Claudio in there with any light heavyweight and he's gonna give you greatness. In WWE, he could have good title defenses against Gabriel, Tyson Kidd, & Evan Bourne whenever he comes back. Possibly Kingston as well. If you liked that match check out his indy stuff against Mike Quackenbush, Davey Richards, & Matt Sydal.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> It's the first match.
> 
> From last night's episode of Superstars, am I the only one that thinks Cesaro/Gabriel was a legit TV MOTYC? I don't know what it was about it, and I'm generally not one for picking apart matches and analysing them, but I personally thought it was a great match and off of the top of my head, the only TV MOTY that beats it was Punk/Henry I. It may just be me and my weird tastes, but whatever. Even if you don't think it is a TV MOTYC, it's still one of the better matches and definitely the best Cesaro match since his debut and the best Gabriel singles match. Give it a watch, definitely worth it for a sub 9 minute match.


It's not a TV MOTYC (Punk/Bryan I seems to be holding that honor) in my books but I thought it was just one of those really solid matches you'd expect to find on Superstars. Cesaro seemed to struggled to draw heat by his 'evil foreigner' antics and it made Gabriel's comeback look quite dry and uncharismatic. It did have some elements that I did enjoy like Cesaro working down Gabriel's abs and the Swiss Death caught me by surprise and that's always a good thing. I really need to make an effort to check out Cesaro's FCW/WWE work as I was a big fan of his when he was on the indies. Any other matches from Cesaro's run that are worth a watch?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gabriel has fucking OWNED on Superstars this year. MVP of the show, for sure.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching this. Great match although the DQ finish was unnecessary. Really a shame these guys never got to work an extended program.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

One of my favorite TV matches this year:






Smackdown this year has had some fantastic matches.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Rock doc was good, although I didn't like how they just made Rock/Austin a side note (they went in depth for it on Austin's DVD), and the last 10 minutes felt like an ad for Rock/Cena. Orton's doc was decent, although I agree with the guy here who said it's funny that Orton got suspended for 60 days and this DVD was about how he put the demons behind him, clean for 3 1/2 years, etc.

About to check out Edges


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Man, the Cesaro vs. Gabriel match from Superstars really should've been on SmackDown.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble, (Smackdown 11/02/07)*

On first watch this feels like the sleeper match of 2007 and one of the better matches in the year. Noble and Mysterio have always had outstanding chemistry with their famous Velocity 2004 match being the pinnacle of their matches, and once again they work a really excellent match built around limb selling and a methodical Noble workover. Mysterio's selling is some of the best I've seen him sell a limb, little things like collapsing into the corner whilst holding his arm and even grabbing the arm in the run up to the 619, constantly letting you know he's hurt and working it into his offence which focuses entirely on fast paced counters aimed at catching Noble off guard. Noble busts out some swank arm work that you expect out of him and gets a great amount in his short control segment with this being a sub 10 minute match, especially loved the hammerlock Northern Lights Suplex. Finish is excellent and they time it perfectly to create the false finish with Noble countering the senton, only to have his Tiger Driver turned into a roll through hurricanrana. Mysterio also busting out the La Mistica headscissor armbar submission also completely caught me off guard, as I don't recall him ever using the move in the past.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah that's something I'mma have to watch.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Finlay also strikes Cole on the finger with the shillelagh when he points at him if that makes you want to watch it even more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It. DOES.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

JBL also has a hilarious line where he trashes Cole for substituting the word 'unorthodox' whenever there's a move whose proper name he doesn't know.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I'm getting ready to download a rock DVD on my PS3. Which one should I download Rock's epic journey or the Most electrifying man in all of sports entertainment one?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

#Mark said:


> I'm getting ready to download a rock DVD on my PS3. Which one should I download Rock's epic journey or the Most electrifying man in all of sports entertainment one?


Epic Journey is the most recent one and the doc was great up until the end, just felt like a 10 minute Rock/Cena advertisement.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Depends if you want to watch a full documentary with comments from The Rock + others followed by the matches/extras, or watch a voice over detailing Rock's career in-between matches.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

#Mark said:


> I'm getting ready to download a rock DVD on my PS3. Which one should I download Rock's epic journey or the Most electrifying man in all of sports entertainment one?


Watch the Journey documentary and the Most Electrifying Man matches if you want the perfect DVD. In 2008 Rock wasn't involved but the quality was great and they gave some good background. In 2012, it was a full doc and one of the best they have ever done.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I want some backstage footage and Comments from Rock and others on his career. I also want some off air promos from Rocky and classic Rock promos. Lastly, I'm really hoping to see his classic series with Foley.

Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

#Mark said:


> 1. I want some backstage footage and Comments from Rock and others on his career.
> 
> 2. I also want some off air promos from Rocky
> 
> ...


1. The documentary in 2012 and in a week, the Rock/Cena DVD.

2. Rock did 1000 segments like that but for some reason they didn't put even one here, you can watch a Rock/Austin off-air segment on the 2011 Austin DVD. That's the only thing I didn't like from the new set, ridiculous thing to do when you got so much content in the archive with no reason to save it. 

3. The extras in 2008, 90 minutes of full promos IIRC. 

4. In 2008 they put the SVS 1998 in the finals of the Deadly Games tournament, the LMS from SVTM and the Ladder match on RAW February 1999. In 2012, the Rumble 1999 match. So besides Rock Bottom, everything is there, unless you want their RAW and SD matches in 99 besides the Ladder.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> *Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble, (Smackdown 11/02/07)*
> 
> On first watch this feels like the sleeper match of 2007 and one of the better matches in the year. Noble and Mysterio have always had outstanding chemistry with their famous Velocity 2004 match being the pinnacle of their matches, and once again they work a really excellent match built around limb selling and a methodical Noble workover. Mysterio's selling is some of the best I've seen him sell a limb, little things like collapsing into the corner whilst holding his arm and even grabbing the arm in the run up to the 619, constantly letting you know he's hurt and working it into his offence which focuses entirely on fast paced counters aimed at catching Noble off guard. Noble busts out some swank arm work that you expect out of him and gets a great amount in his short control segment with this being a sub 10 minute match, especially loved the hammerlock Northern Lights Suplex. Finish is excellent and they time it perfectly to create the false finish with Noble countering the senton, only to have his Tiger Driver turned into a roll through hurricanrana. Mysterio also busting out the La Mistica headscissor armbar submission also completely caught me off guard, as I don't recall him ever using the move in the past.


Always loved the matches these two had together, there's one on Rey's 2003 doc that has one of the coolest WWE finishes ever, as for Rey using La Mistica; he did it vs. Punk at Armegeddon 08.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> 1. The documentary in 2012 and in a week, the Rock/Cena DVD.
> 
> 2. Rock did 1000 segments like that but for some reason they didn't put even one here, you can watch a Rock/Austin off-air segment on the 2011 Austin DVD. That's the only thing I didn't like from the new set, ridiculous thing to do when you got so much content in the archive with no reason to save it.
> 
> ...


Appreciate it man, i'm watching the journey Rock DVD tonight.

Any word on the AE DVD that was scheduled to be released in October?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, that Noble/Mysterio match was really enjoyable. DAT FINISH.

Noble was such a great wrestler.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

I admit I enjoyed Hurricane vs. Noble at King of the Ring 2002.

-DFG


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Noble's honestly one of the most underrated workers of the past decade. His stuff in ROH is sooooo fucking good. Shame he never really did much in the E. His size didn't help him much though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Couple random ratings. Was just watching the FCA set on Netflix.

Triple H vs Umaga - CS '07 - ****1/4

Really, really good brawl with Umaga showing why he was one of the few bright wrestlers of '07. The splash from table to table looked awesome and it had a nice brutal feel to it, especially with Umaga using lots of strikes. 

Cody Rhodes vs Randy Orton - Samckdown '11 - ****1/4

I think this is my new TV MOTY. I didn't realize how awesome it was the first time I saw it but goddamn this was what their whole feud should've been. Rhodes, on that night, looked on par with Orton. And I don't know if it was editing or not, but the crowd was eating this match up. And the symbolic end of the mask was great too. And this got a well deserved 20 minutes or so. Great, great stuff.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH/Umaga- ***1/2
Rhodes/Orton- ***1/2


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

Triple H vs Umaga from cyber sunday was legit awesome match. Probably in top 5 of the year. ****1/2 

Havent seen Orton vs Rhodes because it was on smackdown. Will check it out.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> Cody Rhodes vs Randy Orton - Samckdown '11 - ****1/4
> 
> I think this is my new TV MOTY. I didn't realize how awesome it was the first time I saw it but goddamn this was what their whole feud should've been. Rhodes, on that night, looked on par with Orton. And I don't know if it was editing or not, but the crowd was eating this match up. And the symbolic end of the mask was great too. And this got a well deserved 20 minutes or so. Great, great stuff.


2011 TV MOTY? That makes us both. Rhodes looking on par with Orton is exactly why I love this match and Smackdown in general. Not only is it Rhodes getting valuable experience with wrestling someone more experienced, it's also giving him the rub and showing the audience that he IS a force to be reckoned with. I remember the spot after the Figure Four where Cole said something like "This must be the first time we actually see Orton retreating from an opponent." The match is just awesome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Brye said:


> Noble was such a great wrestler.


Yep, very good technical wrestler who's also astute at working stiff and selling/bumping extremely well. Tbh I think he's far better as the methodical technician than Malenko ever was, though I don't think much of Malenko aside from when he's working sub 10 minute Nitro/Saturday Night matches.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Noble's honestly one of the most underrated workers of the past decade. His stuff in ROH is sooooo fucking good. Shame he never really did much in the E. His size didn't help him much though.


Again, yep. His Velocity match vs Mysterio and his Glory by Honor title match vs Danielson are currently on my list for the best 100 matches of the decade, and the more I watch of him the more I'm amazed by how consistent he is at working the cruiserweight style but wrestling more like a mini Finlay/Regal and adding some great stories and control segments to matches. He's definitely alongside Tajiri and Mysterio as the top 3 WWE cruiserweights.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

My favourite non-Rey match thing Jamie Noble did was during the Chuck Palumbo feud. He wore a shirt in a backstage segment that said "Noble -2 Pulambo -0" with Palumbo actually misspelt like that. I need to find it.


----------



## AWR (Mar 26, 2011)

Obis said:


> HHH/Umaga- ***1/2
> Rhodes/Orton- ***1/2


HHH/Umaga ***
Rhodes/Orton ***


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> My favourite non-Rey match thing Jamie Noble did was during the Chuck Palumbo feud. He wore a shirt in a backstage segment that said "Noble -2 Pulambo -0" with Palumbo actually misspelt like that. I need to find it.


I remember that. Funny stuff :lmao

also his work with Nidia and the blind gimmick was probably his most memorable and the only push he got.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> My favourite non-Rey match thing Jamie Noble did was during the Chuck Palumbo feud. He wore a shirt in a backstage segment that said "Noble -2 Pulambo -0" with Palumbo actually misspelt like that. I need to find it.












You're welcome


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

If I could find it somewhere I would buy that shirt in a heartbeat.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingCal said:


> You're welcome



The look on his face makes it even better. :lmao I detract whatever the two last ginger jokes I made were.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I dont even remember what that feud was about (between Noble and Chuck). 

Do you guys think that shirt was done on purpose or a classic typo?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Bad Guy said:


> I dont even remember what that feud was about (between Noble and Chuck).
> 
> Do you guys think that shirt was done on purpose or a classic typo?


They were fighting over the love of Michelle McCool. They both lost ....

Definitely a purpose typo for Noble's character.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Oh yeah now it's all coming back to me. 






Jamie Noble's career defining moment... than there was a feud where she was blind and turned on him no?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, that's during the time when Tajiri spat black mist in her eyes and she went blind for a while and she turned face. Really good stuff. Noble, despite not really being pushed, was involved in some fun shit lol. The one with him wanting to sleep with Torrie Wilson and it ending up with him, Nidia, Billy Gunn and Torrie having a 4-some was hilarious. PLUS he had a sex briefcase!


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

you are like the WWE wikipedia :lmao where do you find these pictures. I forgot about them years ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The one with the t-shirt is from a SD 07 ep, and I happen to have the SD 07 shows on my PC. As for the sexbox pic, its from... a PPV... at some point (Vengeance 03?) that I reviewed ages ago, and I took that pic to place in my review because I thought it was awesome ....

I WANT A SEX BOX.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Just take a briefcase and fill it with 18+ items and you'll have yourself your beloved SEX BOX


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Cal what section are you modding? 

And did you ever do a full review of the Kennel from Hell match? :lmao I'd love to read reactions, I haven't seen it in years and need a good laugh. Didn't it involve dogs pooping in the ring or at ringside?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a mod for the Video Games section now.

Never have reviewed that match. At least I don't think so. Had dogs FUCKING and shitting at ringside. No dogs in the actual ring lol. Just a horrible fucking match that's so bad its... still really bad :lmao.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I saw it years ago out of curiosity but would die of laughter if anyone did a serious long review not just a star rating. 
ur 
And Headliner should give you to mod this one thread, it's like your thread.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The dogs defacating and fucking would have made the Taker/Bossman HIAC a lot more bearable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Bad Guy said:


> I saw it years ago out of curiosity but would die of laughter if anyone did a serious long review not just a star rating.
> ur
> And Headliner should give you to mod this one thread, it's like your thread.


I already WAS a mod here earlier in the year, but I gave it up lol.

One day I shall have to review the match in full, similar to how I did Angle/Hardy from a couple of years ago and Angle/Benoit 01 Cage match, where I just go insane and overboard in my complaints ....



Segunda Caida said:


> The dogs defacating and fucking would have made the Taker/Bossman HIAC a lot more bearable.


:lmao absolutely.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

What was the feud even about? that led to the kennel from hell match. What were they exactly fighting over, besides their dignity


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

KingCal said:


> I already WAS a mod here earlier in the year, but I gave it up lol.
> 
> One day I shall have to review the match in full, similar to how I did Angle/Hardy from a couple of years ago and Angle/Benoit 01 Cage match, where I just go insane and overboard in my complaints ....


I saw the Angle/ Hardy one :lmao couldn't stop laughing. If you ever get one done for the HIAC match I want to read it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Bad Guy said:


> What was the feud even about? that led to the kennel from hell match. What were they exactly fighting over, besides their dignity


All came about because Boss Man fed Al Snow his own dog (Pepper). Probably during a hardcore title feud or something. Who knows. RUSSO.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

KingCal said:


> All came about because Boss Man fed Al Snow his own dog (Pepper). Probably during a hardcore title feud or something. Who knows. RUSSO.


reminds me of that fued I saw (wasn't watching at the time so I only saw some crazy promo on youtube) where Big Show was screaming about Boss Man taking his father's corpse or something like that in 99'? I forget the details. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. 

Did they some crazy gimmick climax to end their feud?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao Boss Man crashing Big Show's dad's funeral and stealing the casket. Crazy shit. Boss Man Vs Big Show ON PPV fighting for the WWF Title. Amazing ....

They just had the short match at Armageddon and that was it. Show dropped the belt to HHH a couple of weeks later. Apparently a chokeslam was enough to avenge what Boss Man did. Though Show did try to kill Boss Man and Albert with a car. Either tipping it up while they were inside, or trying to crush them under one.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The Bossman/Snow feud was comedy, Bossman steals his dog, Al goes crazy trying to find him, then Bossman teased that he's going to bring him back only to give it to him in a dinner. Ridiculous but gold at the same time. There was a segment on SD before that PPV where Al brings the dogs to the arena and they're almost getting to kill Bossman and he just jumps over the barricade in the last second :lmao. With all this crazy shit, it was unforgettable and continued with the Show/Bossman program. The Big Bossman heel run in 1999 is one of the my favorite of all time. One of the most comedic sadistic heels ever lol.

They also had a series of awesome hardcore matches on PPV:


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KingCal said:


> I already WAS a mod here earlier in the year, but I gave it up lol.
> 
> One day I shall have to review the match in full, similar to how I did Angle/Hardy from a couple of years ago and Angle/Benoit 01 Cage match, where I just go insane and overboard in my complaints ....
> 
> ...


Lol Can you repost your review of the Cage match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Coolquip said:


> Lol Can you repost your review of the Cage match?


*Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - Steel Cage Raw 2001*

We've got Austin on commentary, who is scouting his future opponent Chris Benoit as he takes on Kurt Angle inside a steel cage!

As I'm sure everyone knows, Angle and Benoit were in a fierce rivalry in early 2001, and while their feud was taking a backseat to the Benoit/Jericho/Austin feud, both guys still hated each other, and being able to go at it one more time in a cage on TV, with nothing really at stake, they probably didn't mind one bit.

Angle wastes no time at all, charging at Benoit the moment he (Benoit) enters the cage, and out come the suplexes, followed by a couple of Crossface attempts from Benoit too.

Angle brings some nice hate here, from starting the match off the way he did, to quickly resorting to slamming Benoit into the cage as many times as possible after Benoit goes for the CF. More suplexes from Angle lol, this time a few gut wrench suplexes, which makes a nice change. Angle for some reason decides to climb out of the cage, when walking out would simply be easier, but hey, they wouldn't have had a logical reason to give us that German suplex from the ropes...

As awesome as the spot was, it was simply a spot for the sake of it. Angle didn't need to climb the cage, so the whole thing was literally just to set up that spot. I'm not complaining though, because it was fucking cool.

Shame about 30 seconds later Angle is showing no signs of being affected by it, and Benoit notices too so he repeatedly throws Angle into the cage in hopes of forcing him to sell .... Benoit then makes a retarded move... the EXACT SAME RETARDED MOVE as Angle. He has Angle down, and goes to climb out of the cage instead of walking out. And Angle catches him, and gives him an Angle Slam.

And here comes the moonsault. Even AUSTIN on commentary calls Angle stupid for not going for a cover after his FINISHING MOVE. So instead of perhaps winning the match, Angle does a completely pointless move and he pays for it. And again, like the German Suplex spot, 30 seconds later Angle is back on top as if nothing happened to him.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

FUCKING SELL YOU MORON!!!

OH my god, he's doing it again. 5 or 6 German suplexes from Benoit, and he STILL gets right back up and charges towards Benoit.

Angle gets put down straight away, and Benoit decides to climb out (Benoit went for the door after the 5 or 6 suplexes... but when he hits a few more, he decides to climb out instead? WTF?!?!). Austin is waiting for Benoit on the floor with a chair though, so Benoit, instead of climbing down and going through the DOOR, somehow comes to the conclusion that the only option is to go for a diving headbutt from the top of the cage. Did Benoit forget how to have a match that makes sense? Does working with Angle multiple times over a few months somehow make you retarded in the ring?

The end is near, with Benoit finally going out of the door, but Austin slams it into his head. Angle looks like he is going out the door, but thinks better of it, and for the first time in the match going over the cage makes sense (Austin can't be trusted). Angle wins. Yey.

Ok, now there are 2 sides to this match. The first is that its fun to watch. 2 guys with great chemistry going at it full force inside a cage, throwing big bombs at each other. On the other side though... you have pure retarded-ness. Angle sells worse than Gil on The Simpsons, the spots are there for no other reason than to have them (and I know, plenty of other matches have them for the sake of it too, but a lot of the time they can be explained, especially tag matches), and other than MOVES~!, there isn't much to this one.

So, overall, I DID enjoy watching it for nothing more than fun, but in terms of match quality, its kinda lacking. I'd put quite a few cage matches ahead of this one, but it sure as hell isn't the worst cage match ....

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That cage match is one of the best I've seen. Pure entertainment and you can forget about logic in steel cage matches, to be honest, so might as well stop using it as an excuse to not enjoy a match!

And what do you think about the Benoit/The Rock cage match in 2000? I think it was stupid to have HHH and his friends coming out but Rock still winning.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

But there are PLENTY of cage matches with logic to them. Then they went through a period of having them all the fucking time and were completely meaningless and couldn't HAVE any kind of real story to them because there was nothing to build a story off of.

Rock/Benoit cage match is alright, rate it lower than Angle/Benoit.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Angle/Benoit (Cage Match): **3/4*

But damn, it's one of the most entertaining matches of all time. Top 10 easily. Sooo much fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> But there are PLENTY of cage matches with logic to them. Then they went through a period of having them all the fucking time and were completely meaningless and couldn't HAVE any kind of real story to them because there was nothing to build a story off of.


I'm talking mainly about the whole "He could've opened the door instead of climbing" thing. There are so many times this happens and is completely illogical if you take it as a real competitive match (as opposed to being scripted), there will barely be any enjoyment.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

I enjoy Angle/Benoit purely because it gave me this:











Oh and all hail ModCal (again 8*D).


----------



## The GOAT One (Sep 17, 2011)

Austin on gold on commentary during that cage match. 

The suplex off the ropes was just mental.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Speaking of 2001 cage matches, which was worse?

Angle vs Benoit
Dudleys vs Hardys
Kane/Taker vs DDP/Kanyon

I've seen all three get terrible reports online, although I do enjoy watching them all from time-to-time (Rock vs Austin is undeniably my favourite cage match from that year though).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane-UK said:


> Speaking of 2001 cage matches, which was worse?
> 
> Angle vs Benoit
> Dudleys vs Hardys
> ...


All 3 ARE watchable and I do enjoy them all, but BOD Vs DDP/Kanyon is definitely the worst one.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Angle isn't good nor do I enjoy it. Grouchiest 19 year old ever. Austin's commentary is a favourite, though.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

A few ratings of matches I've watched today so far.

King of the Ring 2001: Kurt Angle vs. Shane McMahon - ***3/4
Rebellions 2001: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Wrestlemania XX: Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***3/4
Vengeance 2003: Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero - ***3/4


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

People on here gave their top 5 Edge matches so here's mine(singles):
5)vs Matt Hardy Unforgiven 2005
4)vs Angle Judgement Day 2002
3)vs Taker Wrestlemania 24
2)vs Angle Backlash 2002
1)vs Taker ONS 2008


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I actually really enjoyed the Angle/Benoit cage match on Raw with Austin on commentary, sure it wasn't a five star masterpeice but I definately wouldn't call it a dud.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

John Cena vs. Umaga, LMS, Rumble 07 - *****3/4* 

I IZ IN LURVE WIV DIS HURR MATCH....SO MUCHES


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/4 for that match .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)




----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

needs more mediocre Austin v Taker 2002 brawling, right Cal!?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since you brought it up and all, 2002 Taker blew chunks for me apart from the Lesnar stuff. As a character he was great but in the ring he wasn't so great. Kinda similar to HHH. 2002 was a pretty shitty year for both of them ring wise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, their mediocre brawling was in 98.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked 2002 Taker, but that Austin match isn't good. The 98 one is probably better but it doesn't matter b/c Cena/Umaga smokes them all and Cal is a soulless ginger who fails to realise the greatness of it. Tongue smiley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 98 match is dreadful. Sloppy, botchy, shitty. 02 match is great, though yeah, nobody else agrees. Fuckers. Rest of Undertaker's 02 is great aside from the HHH matches, but HHH in 2002 could have worked with 85 RIC FLAIR and blew chunks.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Agreed. He was just too big when he came back from the injury and it showed. Cena/Umaga is a beautiful match however and deserves more snowflakes than 3 lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol @ Taker/Austin at JD 02. That's one of the most laughable matches I've seen. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, though. It's way too laid back for a brawl and they take it easy walking around the ring, lol.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol @ Taker/Austin at *JD* 02. That's one of the most laughable matches I've seen. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, though. It's way too laid back for a brawl and they take it easy walking around the ring, lol.


Backlash. And yeah I had no idea what that was. 27 minutes long and it wasn't even the main event. Best part was afterwards when Flair found out he screwed up the finish and said out loud "Aw shit" lol.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I really enjoyed their Judgment Day 2001 encounter (Austin and Taker). It's a shame when people talk about the matches between the two it's either their 98/99 work or 2002 work, I barely ever hear someone mention this match and I kinda like it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Marv95 said:


> Backlash. And yeah I had no idea what that was. 27 minutes long and it wasn't even the main event. Best part was afterwards when Flair found out he screwed up the finish and said out loud "Aw shit" lol.


Ah, got it mixed up with the 2001 one. My mistake. Is the JD match the one where Kane was running like a motherfucker to break up the final pin? I saw these two matches like one day apart so it's easy for me to confuse them with each other.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JD 01 is their best match together. Awesome stuff.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

KingCal said:


> JD 01 is their best match together. Awesome stuff.


Another reason why 2001 is my favorite year in the WWE, I honestly dont get all the love for 2000, or at laest it being over 2001 by many people. 2001 was the total package year in my opinion, just had it all from top to bottom on the entire roster from all divisions, notto mention watchign the InVasion as a kid and me being compelled and unsure if it was going to be the end of the WWF or not really added to it. Just loved everything goin on in it, classic feuds, classic promos (milk truck on of my personal favorites of all time), classic matches (TLC on Smackdown as an example) and other things. 

2000 was fun but just not up there with 2001, it didn't have those huge feuds of the year for me that 2001 had like two man power trip of the invasion... I know I'm going on a rant here but just saw a thread asking about the best year of the invasion and everyone went 2000 > everything and was like - WHY?!


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

> I know I'm going on a rant here but just saw a thread asking about the best year of the invasion and everyone went 2000 > everything and was like - WHY?!


If not for the botched InVasion angle 2001 could have been the best WWE year EVER for alot of us let alone Attitude year. As a WWF storyline it was good for what it was and downright entertaining. But it wasn't supposed to be an average WWF storyline. Plus I was a little bored with the product between Mania X7 and Judgment Day whereas 2000 in that same period was anything but boring.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Kane-UK said:


> Speaking of 2001 cage matches, which was worse?
> 
> Angle vs Benoit
> Dudleys vs Hardys
> ...


Speaking of tag team cage matches, I remember really liking Edge and Christian vs The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000 I think it was. I really like E+C's heel performance in this.


Starbuck said:


>


I think you mean











> Angle for some reason decides to climb out of the cage, when walking out would simply be easier


They could always walk out of the cage though, that's one thing that irks me in a lot of steel cage matches.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Angle/Benoit cage is a classic, amazing effort, Top 2 cage matches of all time ****1/2.

Rock/Cena after the match:


> *Exclusive Pics: The Rock & John Cena Embrace After WrestleMania 28 Match*
> 
> The documentary gives a look backstage immediately following the WrestleMania 28 match, which shows an embrace between Rock and Cena, in addition to interactions with Vince McMahon. Below are some exclusive photos of the eye-opening scene. Grab your copy of the DVD to see it all.
> 
> ...


Documentary along with the exclusive extras should be great. 

On another note, who the fuck sells all the things Michael Hayes wears? Seriously, brutal.


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

Lmfao Hayes looks like Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka put on about 50lbs


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2000 > 2001.

I wish we could get backstage footage of Taker/HHH/HBK after their little moment on the ramp. Now that would be special. 

The more I see about Rock/Cena the better it looks though. Rather looking forward to the doc now tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> Angle/Benoit cage is a classic, amazing effort, Top 2 cage matches of all time ****1/2.


Just watched that for the first time the other day. Pretty amazing. GERMAN FROM THE CAGE~!


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

I think you meant MOONSAULT FROM THE CAGE~!. But that's the only part I didn't like, would prefer a nice, logical headlock instead 8*D. Nah that was really an amazing spectacle to watch and at that time they were killing themselves on TV every week, Benoit had an insane month of bumps in his matches during that time, almost hard to watch today when you know what happened. In the Angle/Benoit series, I will put it Top 3 after Unforgiven 2002 and Rumble 2003. 


#Mark said:


> Appreciate it man, i'm watching the journey Rock DVD tonight.
> 
> Any word on the AE DVD that was scheduled to be released in October?


I think it's supposed to be in November, the AE and nWo DVDs at the same month with Documentary. Awesome year for their DVDs concept.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Benoit gives Angle a German from the cage, no? Not from the very top, but fairly high up.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Benoit gives Angle a German from the cage, no? Not from the very top, but fairly high up.


Yeah, third rope. 

8:30





Crazy spot.


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

^I honestly can't think of a better 3 man announce team in history, not one dull moment that whole video
"Yes SIR, Mr Austin SIR!"


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Angle/Benoit being a top 2 Cage match of all time is ridiculous, I mean hell different strokes for different folks and all...but yikes.

Tully/Magnum I Quit
Flair/Morton
Lawler/Savage
Lawler/Idol
Backlund/Slaughter
Steamboat & Youngblood/Slaughter & Kernodle Final Conflict
Punk/Hardy Loser Leaves Town
Eddie/JBL
Hardy/Edge Unforgiven 2005

Hell if you count WarGames matches as a variation of the Cage gimmick, 1991, 1992, 1994 and maybe even 1996 would all be comfortably better.

And countless other cage matches from the territory and other feds I'm most likely forgetting whilst rattling off the top of my head. Entertaining for sure, admittedly more for the fecking stupidity behind most of the moves, but not even close to resembling the essence of a true cage match: hatred, violence, passion. It was just a standard Benoit/Angle match only with the addition of a Cage allowing them to incorporate variations of signature moves (moonsault and headbutt off the cage rather than traditional top rope).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And if you count War Games, might as well count HIAC, which throws even MORE cage matches ahead of it .

Commentary > Match. Just more entertainment thrown at you (like I said, the match IS entertaining, just somewhat retarded ).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed, I definitely don't think it's an all time classic cage match, because it's missing the animosity that a cage match typically insinuates. The addition of a gimmick to the match seemed random, especially given the two competitors involved. SC nailed it on the head by saying it's your standard Angle/Benoit match with a cage around them to make their usual moves more emphatic. That being said, a highly entertaining match.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Any chance to get that Angle/Daniels match from 2000? There are also the Angle/Owen dark matches, big waste if it's not on video.

Edit - Hogan/Flair in Havoc 94 is really an awesome cage match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Knew I forgot one, Hogan vs Flair Halloween Havoc 1994 Cage Match. THAT is how you work a tremendously entertaining and more theatrical Cage match, but still incorporate the character, hatred and magnitude of the match into the feud. 

But yeah, Magnum/Tully is the definition of a proper Cage match for me. Hatred that dominates their entire offence, utilising the cage as a weapon whilst still employing basic brawling to signify the contempt for the other's existence and not having to rely on the damn escape rules which ruin Cage matches these days. 

Said it before, but the whole door/climbing the cage makes no sense. Firstly it always leads to nonsensical spots where guys deliberately climb the cage to set up a big spot, which of course comes off incredibly telegraphed when they've been using the door to escape prior. Then you get into the stupidity of the cage door being an escape route...when the whole basis of a cage match should be to avoid interference and settle a match with a fair winner...yet of course we always get people able to enter the cage via the door or interfere by slamming the door off of a wrestler's face. I'd rather they just eliminate the escape rule and make it pinfall/submission inside a cage with no way out, or if they insist on an escape format (again stupid since most Cage matches come about when a heel takes the cheap way to avoid losing to a babyface...yet is put into a match where taking the shortcut is actually legal) make it via climbing over the cage.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Knew I forgot one, Hogan vs Flair Halloween Havoc 1994 Cage Match. THAT is how you work a tremendously entertaining snd more theatrical Cage match, but still incorporate the character, hatred and magnitude of the match into the feud.
> 
> But yeah, Magnum/Tully is the definition of a proper Cage match for me. Hatred that dominates their entire offence, utilising the cage as a weapon whilst still employing basic brawling to signify the contempt for the other's existence and not having to rely on the damn escape rules which ruin Cage matches these days.
> 
> Said it before, but the whole door/climbing the cage makes no sense. Firstly it always leads to nonsensical spots where guys deliberately climb the cage to set up a big spot, which of course comes off incredibly telegraphed when they've been using the door to escape prior. Then you get into the stupidity of the cage door being an escape route...when the whole basis of a cage match should be to avoid interference and settle a match with a fair winner...yet of course we always get people able to enter the cage via the door or interfere by slamming the door off of a wrestler's face. I'd rather they just eliminate the escape rule and make it pinfall/submission inside a cage with no way out, or if they insist on an escape format (again stupid since most Cage matches come about when a heel takes the cheap way to avoid losing to a babyface...yet is put into a match where taking the shortcut is actually legal) make it via climbing over the cage.


What are your thoughts on the Bret Hart vs Owen Hart Steel Cage Match from Summerslam?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tbh I haven't watched that match in about 5 years off memory, and I'm not really pressed to want to go watch it due to my apathy towards Bret (not going to call him bad, but he's not a worker I'm compelled to watch every new match I find like I would Funk, Finlay, Hansen and others) in general.

I doubt I'd think it would be better than the cage matches I mentioned a couple of posts ago, if only because I'm not entirely convinced both could work the stiff/violent brawl I tend to favour in Cage matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Rock/Cena DVD has suddenly gotten me 10 times more interested with those sneak pics. Can't wait until somebody puts it online, whether it's YouTube or DailyMotion, a torrent or some other random site.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Or our in-house Wrestling Multimedia section...


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Out of pure nostalgia reasons, I checked out the match above and it's a hell of a fun match. A five star match it is not but with all the charisma and star power in front of a hot MSG crowd, it was certainly 20 minutes well spent. It was camp, corny and cartoony but in a very good way. 

Could an argument be made that Hulk Hogan was at-best a decent worker? Only a few people can even come close to him when it comes to charisma. He had the ability to get any crowd to pop at any time with the slightest actions and that surely has got to have some translation to good ring-work. His selling was very poor (an argument could be made that his no-selling is a character trait because he is 'immortal' and all but let's leave that for another day...) and that's obviously going to stop him from having ****+ matches but it's hard to deny he's had some fun performances in his time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

In its literal meaning, Hogan is a good hell even great 'worker'. Lawler might be the only guy in history who can lay claim to getting as good a reaction for the smallest details in a match, and there's no doubt Hogan's charisma carried into his ability to control and perform naturally in front of any crowd. Sure he didn't get crowd reactions from his selling the way Steamboat and Morton managed to do, but rather him being a super FIP arose out of his character and insane charisma that captivated audiences nationwide and worldwide.

I think that's actually part of the innate charm in John Cena. Like Hogan a lot of the time he's a naturally great and engaging FIP because his starpower and character is so far ahead of anyone else bar Undertaker in the company, so he naturally generates reactions from the crowd and helps to make his opponents look better in the process. Yet at the same time, his performances and bumping in the Lesnar, Umaga and Khali matches demonstrate he does possess that Morton/Steamboat ability to theatrically bump and build sympathy in his matches, albeit on a far lesser level than those two.

But yeah, Hogan definitely was a good 'worker' in terms of carrying a crowd and doing what he was needed to do. He doesn't have a great match catalogue but there's definitely some good performances from him, and in respect of what Vince wanted from Hogan, he didn't fail.

BTW if you want a great Hogan tag, check out Hogan/Savage vs Flair/Arn from Nitro 1996. Legit awesome STF tag with some great Arn shtick, a great Savage FIP spell and a generally entertaining yet terrific match. Features one of the best transition spots into a FIP spell I've seen in a tag match as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hogan &Warrior Vs The Undertaker, Sgt. Slaughter & General Adnan is a tremendously fun tag team match too. And for the record I'd call Hogan a good worker. Plus I think his selling is somewhat underrated. Once he makes his comeback and goes all "superman" then yeah, he ignores shit, but prior to that part of the match he's always been good at selling beatings from his opponents.


Just finished watching the NWA documentary that I posted in my Sig (available to download on XWT btw, and currently freeleech I think?). Around 2 and a half hours, with the last 20 being "extras" with guys telling some stories they heard from the past and their memories of watching as a kid, then a match between Pierce and... someone. 

Anywho, overall its a pretty good documentary. They got plenty of footage of matches and shit from whoever owns their own recording and whatnot, and even got some shoot interview footage from Highspots, RF Video and a couple of others so we do get the likes of Flair, Funks, Briscos etc talking about certain people and matches which is cool, and was probably cheaper for them to get the video footage than it was to pay some of the guys to be on the DVD. Really good in depth look at most of the NWA champs from the beginning up to Flair in the 80's, then after that they just mention a bunch of guys in passing before getting to Shane Douglas and they talk about the ECW thing, then from there bits and pieces, then the WWF being invaded in the late 90's, then TNA using the belt. And then they spend about 20-25 minutes talking about the current NWA... and it goes downhill lol. Just because its sad to see where the NWA is now, and the fact that the wrestlers and people involved still try to make us believe that the NWA and the title actually mean something any more. Lets face it, the NWA title hasn't meant SHIT since JCP was sold to Turner and it was turned into WCW and they got rid of the NWA belt and had a WCW belt. Since then WCW and WWF were the only promotions that meant anything. ECW on a smaller scale too, but they shat on the NWA title and had their own so the NWA title had to resort to floating around the dying territories/indy promotions until TNA picked it up in 02 then gave it up and it went back to the Indies which had fallen even further. Doesn't help that they talk about how the belt still means something and then show someone winning it in a decent sized arena where ALL the seats are empty and you can see MAYBE 40 people folding chairs around the ringside area. I guess they were trying to promote the current NWA by giving it so much time at the end and really talking it up, but you can't take them seriously when they show clips like that. But at least they actually have footage of a guy saying that the NWA should just go away now because its nothing, you really don't get the other side of things like that in WWE documentaries.

Nice to see a big independent documentary like this. Big fan of the WCCW and Memphis ones, and I'm looking forward to the ECW one that is currently on kickstarter looking to get funding (though there are 9 days left and they still need like, $9000 so its unlikely to happen. Kinda funny that the epic ECW promotion that sooo many fans think is incredible can barely make $23000 while little old Nigel McGuinness, just a single guy, made over $48000 ). Isn't there already an independent ECW doc out there anyway? I seem to recall Jeremy Borash being involved?


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

This was released the same time as WWE released their awesome 'Rise & Fall of ECW' set. Some people have said that this was even better than the WWE's attempt due to having the ability to reach out to guys like Sandman, Sabu and Shane Douglas. I pretty sure it was released to promote up those Hardcore Homecoming shows back in the day.

Thanks for the head-ups on the NWA doc, Cal. Will defo check that out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahh there it is, cheers Cactus. Might download it and give it a watch. Even if I don't like certain wrestlers or promotions, I usually still enjoy watching docs on them .


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Hey Cal, opinions on HBK/Taker at Ground Zero '97 and Rumble '98?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*Backlash '05*

Jericho/Shelton ***3/4
Tag Team Turmoil *3/4
Benoit/Edge ****
Kane/Viscera *
Hassan & Davairi/Hogan & Michaels **3/4
HHH/Batista ***1/4


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I never actually saw that ECW documentary you posted, good find, now I'll have what to do tonight (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Coolquip said:


> Hey Cal, opinions on HBK/Taker at Ground Zero '97 and Rumble '98?


Both are great, great matches. GZ is a tremendous out of control brawl and one of THE best matches that helps build to another match. **** for it. RR 98 is the second best casket match (Taker Vs Bob and Randy Orton is #1). Just more great stuff from Undertaker and HBK who have amazing chemistry that imo is not only up there but better than Flair/Steamboat. Plus the finish is really cool. ****1/4 for that.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Cal have you seen the ECW youtube dvd posted a few posts above you ? should I watch it? or is it a waste of time, I am letting it buffer and not sure if to start.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> WWE TLC: Tables, Ladders & Chairs 2012 01/15/13
> Best of Raw & SmackDown 2012 01/29/13
> The Best of Nitro Volume 2 02/12/13
> Royal Rumble 2013 02/26/13
> ...


http://www.wwe.com/wweshop/dvd/2013-home-video-release-schedule-26050774

The Best of Nitro Volume 2 - Could be great since they missed like, every good thing about Nitro on the first set .
Bret Hart Unreleased Matches - Nice!
Mick Foley Biography - :mark:
The Best of In Your House - Saves me picking up all the TC releases since so many of them were shit .
Top 25 Rivalries - Gonna be interesting to see their list.
Goldberg - Documentary should be interesting if that's what it is.
Best of MSG - Backlund please? 
Best of War Games - MOTHERFUCKING YES :mark:
Triple H Biography - Documentary should be interesting.
History of WWE - Documentary should be interesting.

Edit: Yes, I've seen that ECW doc before, which is why I was asking about it. Watching it myself now since its been a few years. Good stuff so far, and I remembered it being good.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Both are great, great matches. GZ is a tremendous out of control brawl and one of THE best matches that helps build to another match. **** for it. RR 98 is the second best casket match (Taker Vs Bob and Randy Orton is #1). Just more great stuff from Undertaker and HBK who have amazing chemistry that imo is not only up there but better than Flair/Steamboat. Plus the finish is really cool. ****1/4 for that.


Agreed though I might go ****1/2 for the casket match. It had been a while and I forgot just how fucking awesome that match was. DAT TOMBSTONE SPOT OFF THE APRON. Just wow. 

Ok another question that's probably been on here one million times:
Best WWE Women's match?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Really interested in the Foley and HHH docs.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Coolquip said:


> Agreed though I might go ****1/2 for the casket match. It had been a while and I forgot just how fucking awesome that match was. DAT TOMBSTONE SPOT OFF THE APRON. Just wow.
> 
> Ok another question that's probably been on here one million times:
> Best WWE Women's match?


Trish Vs Mickie from either NYR 06 or WM 22 06. Both are about ***1/4-1/2.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Yeah I have seen the first ten minutes so far very interesting stuff, better than the rise and fall dvd for sure. 

I noticed it said in the begining that Jeremy Borash directed it, isn't he that interviewee guy in TNA? (haven't seen TNA in yeares, dont get it on tv where i live  ) what connection does he have to do with ECW? did he used to work there too?


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

KingCal said:


> Trish Vs Mickie from either NYR 06 or WM 22 06. Both are about ***1/4-1/2.


If I remember correctly, the match where both Lita and Trish retired in at Unforgiven 06 was very good. 

and some of those dvd's look awesome, Foley, HHH especially. Hart and IYH could be good ones but depending on what the matches are in them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not sure I'd say its better than WWE's ECW doc. Both are different, but WWE's had the advantage of Paul Heyman, Tazz and Dudley's as well as footage. Not saying that makes it better, but having imo the biggest part of ECW (Heyman), the biggest single star (Tazz, though Douglas could be argued very easily), and the biggest tag team (Dudley's). 

And JB is in TNA (and was at the time). As far as I know he was just a fan while he was working with WCW.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best of MSG is definitely the most interesting thing there. If there's a slight possibly they release something nobody but they themselves have it will be :mark:. Bret Hart unreleased might a random gem or two as well.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

History of the WWE would also be very interesting, I am sure it would be noramlly biast but still would be interesting all the interviews and historic footage. I hope they focus more on it's very early days with the WWWF and things like that, things that I dont already have on footage or have yet to see so it's all new to me.


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

*Rumored list of WWE DVDs to be released in 2013*



Rajah.com said:


> WWE has announced its WWE Home Entertainment 2013 DVD/Blu-ray release schedule, which confirms several rumored titles. In addition to pay-per-view events, the sports-entertainment organization will be releasing compilation videos on WCW Monday Nitro, Bret Hart, Mick Foley, In Your House, Goldberg, ECW, War Games, WWE Divas, Triple H, Money in the Bank and Raw, among others. A History of WWE title is also scheduled.
> 
> WWE TLC: Tables, Ladders & Chairs 2012 - 01/15/13
> Best of Raw & SmackDown 2012 - 01/29/13
> ...


Ones like the best of War Games, IYH, MSG and so on are titles I'm hoping are legit. But if it's true 2013 is going to be an active year as far as building my DVD collection goes.


----------



## KnockLesnar (Jun 23, 2012)

*Re: Rumored list of WWE DVDs to be released in 2013*

I would like to see more collections o individual wrestlers, like Rick Rude, JYD, etc. Also a Best Of UWF/Mid-South should definitely be on this list, as well as more entries in the Greatest Rivalries series, like Austin/Rock, Taker/Kane, etc. The one with Bret/Shawn is fantastic and one of the best DVDs they've ever released.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: Rumored list of WWE DVDs to be released in 2013*

I still want them to release uncensored Attitude Era volumes, collections or anthologies. I guess in 2014.


----------



## KnockLesnar (Jun 23, 2012)

*Re: Rumored list of WWE DVDs to be released in 2013*



Warrior said:


> I still want them to release uncensored Attitude Era volumes, collections or anthologies. I guess in 2014.


This would have been a good year to do it with the Attitude era being featured heavily in the WWE '13 game.


----------



## austin316 G.O.A.T (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: Rumored list of WWE DVDs to be released in 2013*

I want the following DVD's
1.Austin vs McMahon 
2.Rock vs HHH


HHH biography
Raw 20 anniversary set should be good


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

*Re: Rumored list of WWE DVDs to be released in 2013*

already posted ysterday in the DVD section but yeah it's a good list this year with five or six DVD's I plan on getting.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Best match in WWE history between two non-wrestlers?

Vince/Shane WM17?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder how many of those DVDs will actually make final production.

Nitro II, War Games, Best of IYH, Mick Foley and Bret Hart ones im sure excited for.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Coolquip said:


> Best match in WWE history between two non-wrestlers?
> 
> Vince/Shane WM17?








8*D


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

That Foley DVD might be my Jericho/Punk DVD of the year. Hope they include his I quit match with Rock and maybe his match with Sting at Beach Blast.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Triple H getting a DVD? THANK FUCK!. Actually no, he was on the schedule before and pulled off twice. I'll believe this when I actually see a proposed cover or something lol.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I have his other dvd from 2002, also a grea watch, think it was on youtube at one point as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TRIPS DVD ! OMG OMG OMG OMG :hhh

Haven't done one of these posts in a while because I've been REAAALLYY busy, but here are my STARZ! for the 1997 WWE Championship matches

*WWE Championship PPV Matches : 1997*

Sid vs Shawn Michaels RR 97 : **** 1/4*
Bret Hart vs The Undertaker vs Vader vs Steve Austin IYH 13 : ***** 1/2*
Sid vs The Undertaker WM XIII : ****
The Undertaker vs Mankind IYH 14 : **** 3/4* 
The Undertaker vs Steve Austin IYH 15 : **** 1/4*
The Undertaker vs Faarooq KOTR 97 : ** 3/4*
Undertaker vs Vader IYH 16 : **** 1/4*
Undertaker vs Bret Hart SS 97 : ***** *
Bret Hart vs The Patriot IYH 18 : **** 3/4*
Bret Hart vs Undertaker ONO 97 : ***** 1/2*
Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels SS 97 : ******
Shawn Michaels vs Ken Shamrock IYH 20 : **** 1/2*

Thoughts ? I have about 19 matches left to watch, so if I watch 2-3 a day it shouldn't take me that long.

Bret was the clear cut MVP of this year... Not just for his amazing performances in the Taker matches and the final four match (btw, Vader is AWESOME) , but also for his match with THE PATRIOT at Ground Zero. Holy fuck is that match great, one of the best paces I've ever seen from that time period, and a TON of fantastic near falls. Great stuff. 

Nobody ever talks about Michaels-Shamrock either, even though I thought it told a fantastic story that built Shamrock up to be this unstoppable monster, but Shawn has to fly all around and shit to stop him (because if Shamrock gets ahold of him, he'll KILL Shawn). HOW DID THEY FUCK SHAMROCK UP ? He was SO badass.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Just got these imported from the U.K., got them today.










Nothing special here.

Just wanted to get these three because they were the last three I needed because their region-free. Also, because I wanted to see that Punk vs. Triple H match from Night of Champions again, and there somewhat "rare" here in America.

-DFG


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Best match you like but everybody else seems to shit on?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Coolquip said:


> Best match you like but everybody else seems to shit on?


Rock/Cena (but I'm also biased because I was there live), Hart/Michaels Iron Man, and HHH/Lesnar.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hall/123 Kid Cry Baby match. Best squash ever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vince/Shane vs. HBK/God. Teh lulz at the start are just too much lol. 

*Vince*: Get jiggy with it!

*JR*: McMahon wants God to get jiggy with it. 

:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got the ECW: Best Of The Arena (Highspots) 6-Disc Set, http://www.highspots.com/p/26868.html, im only after the DVD cover if anyone has to scan please, thanks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Vince/Shane vs. HBK/God. Teh lulz at the start are just too much lol.
> 
> *Vince*: Get jiggy with it!
> 
> ...


Never has blasphemy made me laugh so much. And the spotlight moving forward with the music... :lmao

For the "match you like but everybody else didn't":

I liked Cena/JBL WM21 to an extent and I've only heard people criticize it. Not a perfect match by any means, but enjoyable for the 10 minutes it got. I also enjoyed the 3SOH match between HHH/HBK which everybody seems to be shitting on in this thread.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

With mention of an MSG set potentially coming out next year, I realised I had a bunch of MSG Classic shows on my pc. Watched the first one which featured a super fun Hogan/Bossman match, an awesome Rockers/Brainbusters match, and then this:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xthl0y_mr-perfect-vs-ronnie-garvin-msg-march-1989_sport

Mr Perfect Vs Ronnie Garvin. Early into Perfect's WWF career, but he looks great already. Garvin is a great puncher, and Perfect sells everything wonderfully. Open few minutes are a ton of fun (Garvin stomping on Perfect's hand while he's outside recovering from a few blows to the head is awesome), then they slow things down and get some heat on Perfect with some headlocks, and then they finish up with some nice back and forth action and again Garvin looks great throwing punches and other blows while Perfect sells really well. Finish keeps Garvin looking strong while showing that Perfect can get the win over even the toughest of opponents. Would be cool to see this on the DVD set.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best of MSG needs this.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Re: Rumored list of WWE DVDs to be released in 2013*



austin316 G.O.A.T said:


> I want the following DVD's
> 1.Austin vs McMahon


They have already done a DVD about Austin vs McMahon.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Match I like but others shit on is Undertaker vs. Great Khali from Judgment Day 2006 - it's really not THAT bad.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Vince/Shane vs. HBK/God. Teh lulz at the start are just too much lol.
> 
> *Vince*: Get jiggy with it!
> 
> ...


The church segment from a week or two before is the most offensive, yet hilarious thing I've ever seen. The match really isn't all that bad, either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vince/Shane Vs HBK is actually a really good match. God stuff made me :lmao, helps that I don't believe in anything like that though .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I honestly loved the HBK/Vince feud. That and early '06 as a whole was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Remember that ECW documentary I mentioned that is currently on kickstarter trying to get funded? And I said it had 9 days left with over $9000 left to go so it likely wasn't going to happen?

Well it got funded . Someone pledged $4000 on their own . So yeah, gonna get made. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...about-extreme-championship-wrestling?ref=live


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Remember that ECW documentary I mentioned that is currently on kickstarter trying to get funded? And I said it had 9 days left with over $9000 left to go so it likely wasn't going to happen?
> 
> Well it got funded . Someone pledged $4000 on their own . So yeah, gonna get made. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...about-extreme-championship-wrestling?ref=live


This actually looks pretty awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Going to meet Roddy Piper tomorrow , who is considered to be the greatest mic worker in the history of the game. However, Piper wasn't really known for his in-ring skill, but that doesn't say that he never put on some really great matches. 

So my question to you guys is simple....... Top 5 Piper matches ? Obviously the Bret match would be on there, along with the Valentine match and other underrated matches from his career. Personally, Piper states that his favourite match was with Adrian Adonis at WM III. Thoughts ?


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Just watched Beyond The Mat again I still can't stop laughing at that scene when Rock is obviously trying to get himself in the spotlight with foley and the kids backstage and Austin walks past and just notices and walks over to them and Rock suddenly acts like a nervous dog and steps to one side with a face like a kid told no Austin a badass back then and always :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Backlash 2004:*

Shelton Benjamin vs Ric Flair - ***
*Fun match that doesn't last too long and Flair puts over Shelton during his first push coming off two back-to-back victories against HHH.

Jonathan Coachman vs Tajiri - **
*Why did they draft Tajiri from Smackdown just to put him in a trainwreck of a match like this? And to make matters worse, Coach dominates most of this despite not being a wrestler to begin with. And the "Boring" chants were rather justified.

Chris Jericho vs Christian/Trish Stratus - **3/4
*Fun while it lasts and Jericho finally gets his revenge on the backstabbers after the humiliation he went through at WM20.

Victoria vs Lita - **3/4
*A decent match between two of the best women's wrestlers in WWE history. They do some good mat-wrestling and then some good back-and-forth using their moveset.

Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack - ****1/2
*An excellent blow-off match to an amazing and well-built feud that took place over the course of almost one year. Foley does an excellent job putting over Orton clean to prove his legitimacy and this is to Orton's career and the "pay your dues" stage what the JBL "I Quit" match was for Cena. Orton bleeds, takes some serious bumps and he should have definitely earned the smarks' respect at that point if he hadn't already. I also like how JR sells Foley's psychotic character and gives up on defending him. If it was today, Lawler would find any stupid way to defend the over-the-top actions of Foley seeing as he's become an ass-kisser to all the faces by any means necessary.

Rosey/The Hurricane vs La Resistance - *1/2
*This is to Backlash 04, what Brodus Clay squashes are to today's PPVs. Just random filler to kill time with no build and I don't remember it being announced on any of the preceding Raw episodes. Eugene randomly turns up and the faces win but really, if there's a piss-break in this PPV, it's this match. I admit I cracked up when Eugene was running the ropes in excitement like a little kid, though.

Edge vs Kane - **
*Edge's return match after being away from the ring for 13 months since February 2003. A disappointing comeback in a highly boring match. Hell, the crowd was more concerned chanting "You screwed Bret!" and "We Want Bret" to Earl Hebner than the in-ring action. I think I even heard some "You both suck!" chants towards the end, lol. I don't agree with that but if this was your first impression of either Edge or Kane, you would probably think that too.

Chris Benoit vs HHH vs Shawn Michaels - ****3/4
*This match has it all from signature moves to ref bumps to table breaks to sledgehammers but still, it can't live up to the classic these three had at Wrestlemania XX. I honestly have no idea why, but there's just something that isn't there. Might have to do with the fact that Wrestlemania is the biggest stage whereas Backlash is just another PPV because even this one has a great ending with Benoit making HBK tap out to the Sharpshooter to the delight of the hometown crowd and his entire family from his wife and kids to his mom and dad at ringside. WWE gives the Canadians the "one-up" on this in return for the screwjob with the ending as Benoit also waves the Canadian flag to close the show. Lastly, the crowd here are a lot better than the MSG crowd at WM but "the biggest stage of them all" is where it matters the most!

*Overall:* ***1/4 out of ***** (Three decent matches, two duds and two classics. All the variety in quality of matches puts this one in the middle of the road for me. But the two classics are enough to make this PPV worth a watch.)


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

TheWFEffect said:


> Just watched Beyond The Mat again I still can't stop laughing at that scene when Rock is obviously trying to get himself in the spotlight with foley and the kids backstage and Austin walks past and just notices and walks over to them and Rock suddenly acts like a nervous dog and steps to one side with a face like a kid told no Austin a badass back then and always :lmao


There are a lot of scenes that are VERY depressing in that documentary like Jake Roberts daughter and Foley's wife and kids during the I Quit match (which I kinda blame on the mom, but I digress), one I found depressing was the scene where Terry Funk goes to the doctor's office. Maybe because I didn't know who Funk was before but man, that scene got to me.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> Remember that ECW documentary I mentioned that is currently on kickstarter trying to get funded? And I said it had 9 days left with over $9000 left to go so it likely wasn't going to happen?
> 
> Well it got funded . Someone pledged $4000 on their own . So yeah, gonna get made. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...about-extreme-championship-wrestling?ref=live


Awesome, think I was the 4th or 5th person to back it so glad it got the full funding it needed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I would have thrown some money at it (enough to get the DVD as a reward), but I'm broke. Ah well, at least I was able to give some to Nigel for his set (can't wait for that to be finish :mark:. Though not expecting it until next year now tbh).


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Coolquip said:


> There are a lot of scenes that are VERY depressing in that documentary like Jake Roberts daughter and Foley's wife and kids during the I Quit match (which I kinda blame on the mom, but I digress), one I found depressing was the scene where Terry Funk goes to the doctor's office. Maybe because I didn't know who Funk was before but man, that scene got to me.


The mos depressing thing about the documentary was it highlights Droz and his first meeting with Vince and what they have planned for him and at the very end the last thing you see on the documentary is "Three weeks after this film was published Darren Drozdov was parlysed from the neck down"


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> The church segment from a week or two before is the most offensive, yet hilarious thing I've ever seen. The match really isn't all that bad, either.





Brye said:


> I honestly loved the HBK/Vince feud. That and early '06 as a whole was awesome.


It's honestly one of my favorite feuds. That church segment is legitimately one of the best things WWE have ever done imo. Every time I watch it it cracks me up lol. 

I just got the entire 2004 PPV year today so I'm fixing to work my way through it soon.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really need to get a hold of the rest of the 2004 PPVs post-Backlash (SummerSlam notwithstanding since it's available on both YT and DM). I can't really download them directly from sites like rapidshare, uploaded.to and so on because it takes too long and in a laptop, the battery issue comes into play. And unfortunately, the torrents available for them are all slow as fuck and nobody has seeded them.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have them all on my desk right now. :vince2


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

TheWFEffect said:


> Just watched Beyond The Mat again I still can't stop laughing at that scene when Rock is obviously trying to get himself in the spotlight with foley and the kids backstage and Austin walks past and just notices and walks over to them and Rock suddenly acts like a nervous dog and steps to one side with a face like a kid told no Austin a badass back then and always :lmao


Huh? Rock was talking to the kids and Shane and then Austin came up to say hi. Rock wasn't scared, why the hell would he be?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock/Cena doc download has 20 mins left. Looking forward to watching it after all the little previews this week. The actual feud itself can go fuck though lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I have them all on my desk right now. :vince2


Stop rubbing it in my face.  That aside, the Vince pic never fails to crack me up! :vince2



Starbuck said:


> Rock/Cena doc download has 20 mins left. Looking forward to watching it after all the little previews this week. The actual feud itself can go fuck though lol.


I'll download it in the weekend when I get the time and patience for it! The backstage stuff seem to be really interesting.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saw the rock/cena doc to download this morning. Didn't bother clicking it .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have it now. That's me settling down for the night. I hope this is as backstagey as I think it is lol. It's the only reason I'm watching it!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is it wrong that a part of me hopes it isn't very backstagey just so you will be disappointed? 

Think I'll go watch... I dunno, the WCCW independent documentary.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

So I've started watching previous episodes. I'm starting from July 7th 1997 but now I have just finished watching the show before Summerslam 1997. It seems like these 4 weeks prior to Summerslam was all about USA vs Canada lol (Team Canada defeating USA in a flag match and now the Patriot beats Bret Hart). I still don't know the results of Summerslam except for Owen Hart vs Austin as that's the match Austin gets injured. 

By the way, does anyone why the German wrestler (I forgot his name) failed in the WWE/F? He still hasn't made his debut yet (Probably after Summerslam) but so far they are showing promos of him.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

where's everyone found a link for rock vs. cena? can't find one anywhere.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I saw it on XWT (torrent site).


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

KingCal said:


> I saw it on XWT (torrent site).


thanks for the site, but saw it and registrations have closed :no:. cant believe i never knew about this site, just used TPB for everything


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Registrations just closed like 2 days ago, as well. People can tend to up it when they get stuff from there anyway so a d/l may probably pop on on this site's media section before long.

anyone know what happened to PWT?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

all the sites that i search are bringing up their shitty NBC doc instead.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just got through with the Rock/Cena doc. It is very backstagey, sorry, Cal. Lol. I don't know. It was a good watch but the part I found most interesting was the bit about Cena's reactions, how it effects him, his opinions on it and the opinions of others. That bit was interesting. They also talked about how Cena was an experiment, how he wasn't supposed to be the guy but he got the ball and never let go. They did go quite deep about the personal aspect of it for both of them although too much time was spent talking about fucking twitter and trending imo. It's still worth a watch though and they show footage of backstage at Wrestlemania before and after their match with them hugging Vince and each other etc which is pretty cool. Cena said that the match was a legitimate GOAT debate, as in, the 2 of them were fighting to cement their place in the GOAT discussion and he didn't win but he wants another shot. As usual, Jericho and HHH were very insightful. These 2 guys just know their shit lol. 

And I got the link from the Home Media section here on the forum for those interested.

Watching the Extras part now.

EDIT - The Extras are alright. Both Cena and Rock are very classy guys though which is always nice to see. Again Cena talks about the reactions and boos he gets. I find it interesting to hear him talk on the subject lol. He also says that he never wants to go and that he's going to have to be told when his last match is rather than choose it himself. I WILL NEVR RETIR DURR.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Just got through with the Rock/Cena doc. It is very backstagey, sorry, Cal. Lol. I don't know. It was a good watch but the part I found most interesting was the bit about Cena's reactions, how it effects him, his opinions on it and the opinions of others. That bit was interesting. They also talked about how Cena was an experiment, how he wasn't supposed to be the guy but he got the ball and never let go. They did go quite deep about the personal aspect of it for both of them although too much time was spent talking about fucking twitter and trending imo. It's still worth a watch though and they show footage of backstage at Wrestlemania before and after their match with them hugging Vince and each other etc which is pretty cool. Cena said that the match was a legitimate GOAT debate, as in, the 2 of them were fighting to cement their place in the GOAT discussion and he didn't win but he wants another shot. As usual, Jericho and HHH were very insightful. These 2 guys just know their shit lol.
> 
> And I got the link from the Home Media section here on the forum for those interested.
> 
> ...


all of those links tell me i need to have a premium account or some shit on their site


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

Does anybody have problems finding the Blu-Ray of John Cena vs Rock? I wanted to buy it on Amazon but it is not avaiable for some reason? Is it not released yet or what?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ether said:


> all of those links tell me i need to have a premium account or some shit on their site


I took it from the German one, UtoUpload or whatever it's called. You don't need to be a member for that.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I took it from the German one, UtoUpload or whatever it's called. You don't need to be a member for that.


thanks, guess i missed those links.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Best WCW PPV main event in the nWo era?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Sting/Hogan from Starrcade. Yeah I know it sucked but I was 8 years old and Sting finally beat Hogan for title. 

Probably didn't mark out as hard as when Luger took it from Hogan on Nitro but it I did order that PPV and Sting winning was a pretty crazy moment.




KingCal said:


> I would have thrown some money at it (enough to get the DVD as a reward), but I'm broke. Ah well, at least I was able to give some to Nigel for his set (can't wait for that to be finish :mark:. Though not expecting it until next year now tbh).


I can't wait to see Nigel's documentary. I think I only gave like $5 but I'm glad I did something. 

The ECW should be pretty cool. If they make the premiere a real event to go to I will all over that since I go to school in Philly.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Coolquip said:


> Best WCW PPV main event in the nWo era?


None?  No really though, most of them sucked. The only one I can think of is probably DDP/Goldberg from Halloween Havoc '98.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Rock/Cena doc was pretty shit to me. Felt like at least 20 fucking minutes of it was about twitter, nothing was interesting to me except Cena/Rock hugging and Punk's quotes about Rock. Pretty boring all around.

Watched Beyond the Mat right before that, I forgot how depressing that Jake shit was. Actually had to skip some of it with his daughter. Still almost as good as it was when I first saw it


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> None?  No really though, most of them sucked. The only one I can think of is probably DDP/Goldberg from Halloween Havoc '98.


Yeah, gotta agree with that. Ironically, it's the one main event not everyone go to see.oat just saw Hogan/Warrior lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Coolquip said:


> Yeah, gotta agree with that. Ironically, it's the one main event not everyone go to see.oat just saw Hogan/Warrior lol.


You know, I recorded that ppv on tape when it aired and I'm really not sure if I've ever went back and tried to watch that match again. I feel like I'd remember something like a main event match cutting off right in the middle of it, but idk. Maybe I just never cared enough about either guy.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Awesome documentary of Rock/Cena, besides the typical Cena/charity case brainwashing, "I'm here and will never leave"(In reality because nobody wants him anywhere else)and some stupid things from HHH and Cena saying that you can't change his "haters'" mind no matter what, yet STILL trying desperately to do it in every opportunity. It was honest in terms of telling how it really was in reality, with Cena as a last choice option etc. They did a great job presenting how big it was, Rock's goal as the greatest and most charismatic performer of all time to create the biggest match of all time, battle of two generations in physical prime and also the background around it. I loved the backstage footage, Rock/Jericho before the match, Rock/Show, even Rock/Del Rio there IIRC when Del Rio came to shake his hand in his locker room. Jericho was great as usual during it. They talked about Twitter was a big part in keeping the story alive without getting stale in 365 days, it was a major aspect of the interest for an entire year. The hype they did before the match backstage as a career defining W was good, that was the biggest match you're going to get in this era of the wrestling industry and it delivered big time. Cena said that Rock's ovation in his entrance was the biggest he ever saw in his entire career. Then Rock saying that when he dropped the final Rock Bottom and got the 3 count, it was 78k CANNONS exploding in insanity, just crazy atmosphere and a moment that will live forever. The last part of Rock/Cena hugging Vince and Rock getting a standing ovation backstage from all the workers after the match was cool, also got a Rock/Tyson interaction there. Overall, really good summary of the biggest, most memorable and most successful feud of this generation and it should stay that way with no rematches or an attempt to recreate the magic of the first time because it's NEVER happening, the legacy and significance of this program is unforgettable as it is.

Second part was the actual feud, all the promos despite some pathetically hypocritical material were good to great to awesome to MONEY. Top 5 will be Rock's return, Rock Concert, Rock/Cena before WM28, Rock history lessons and Rock/Cena/Miz/Truth segment in Boston. Two promos that are in the Top 5 but for some reason weren't on the DVD were Rock at Survivor Series 2011 and Rock in Philly. Don't know why. Rock YouTube annihilation also should have been there but I guess that's too much for the Cena character to handle without looking like a fool.

Matches - Rock316AE system. Rock - *, Cena - 1/2: 

*The Rock/John Cena vs The Miz/R-Truth Survivor Series 2011 -* Such a special atmosphere for a moment that millions upon MILLIONS...Of fans worldwide waited to see for so many years, to the point where you thought it's never going to happen. Seeing Rock walking to the ring that night with New York City giving him one of the biggest ovations in the history of MSG was surreal. Like Jerry Lawler said: "If this doesn't put chills up and down your spine something is wrong with you". Then the match started and it was even more than that, Rock out there outperforming the entire active roster after 8 years was crazy, his timing, selling, athleticism, still the great worker that he is and it was all in place with the hottest crowd of the year starting chant after chant and into every move, great match overall with Rock and Cena trading shots and building for the Rock comeback to end the match. The humiliation Rock along with MSG gave Cena after that was nice as well. 

:rocky :rocky :rocky :cena 

*The Rock vs John Cena WrestleMania 28 -* That was the definition of what a big time wrestling main event should be. In terms of an atmosphere, anticipation, star power and the in ring exchanges. Exactly what this match should be when people dreamed about this dream match since 2005. Full of believable nearfalls, full of drama, huge promotion, star power, mega hot crowd, memorable spots and perfect finish. Great in every way and this is what this industry is all about. Watching Rock, not only after almost a decade killing it in the ring for 30 minutes, but with a torn hamstring for half of the match putting on a tremendous performance was unbelievable. All that along with Oscar selling for the ribs and the STF spot. The finish was one of the greatest moments of all time and like Rock said, was like a stadium full of cannons just going fucking crazy like never before, hugging, jumping, throwing beer, that's a rare situation you will be lucky to see again. This match delivered after a year of hype and gave fans exactly what they wanted for over 7 years. One of the best WM main events of all time.

:rocky :rocky :rocky :rocky :cena 

Best of the extras was Rock telling his inspiring story before the success and singing for his grandmother and grandfather on their grave. I will watch the other part of extras and film cut in a few hours. 

Overall, great DVD, if you liked the program this is one of the best they have ever done, if you didn't like the program, you will like it after watching this. Worth watching either way on one of the greatest feuds of all time.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Whilst your posts are usually in-depth, I have never seen you post about anyone other than Rock or Cena. Also, it seems as though you need to reiterate how good The Rock is in every post you make too, like we aren't already aware of your opinions.

Besides that, I enjoyed the doc much more than I expected to - funnily enough for a few of the reasons you stated above.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE Championship PPV Matches : 1998*

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker RR 98 : ***** 1/4*
Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin WM XIV : **** 3/4*
Steve Austin vs Dude Love IYHU : *****
Steve Austin vs Dude Love IYHOTE : ****** 
Steve Austin vs Kane KOTR 1998 : **** 1/4*
Steve Austin vs The Undertaker SS 98 : **** 1/4*
Steve Austin vs Kane vs The Undertaker BIYH : ** 3/4*
Kane vs The Undertaker JDIYH : ** 1/2*
The Rock vs Mankind SS 98 : *** 1/4*
The Rock vs Mankind RBIYH : *** 1/2*

Just some random notes from this years batch of WWE Championship matches (straight out of the oven, of course) :

1998 was a pretty fucking terrible year in-ring wise for the WWF, and it really showed in this championship matches. Either the matches were mediocre(ESPECIALLY for main event standards) like the two Rock-Mankind matches, or they were just downright fucking AWFUL like the Taker-Kane-Austin saga they had going on in the fall. I can't shit on the WWF for this because they were doing record business at the time, but the actual wrestling product left alot to be desired. THAT IS of course, besides 3 matches in particular that I need to address..

Taker-Shawn have the greatest in ring chemistry of all time , and the fact that this was probably the 4th best match they've ever had (not even TOUCHING the other 3) while still being my 1999 MOTY blows my fucking mind. Everything these two touch turns into gold, and this was no exception for sure. Shawn should get all the credit in the world for working in a world of pain here, which leads us to the WM XIV main event , the rise of one Steve Austin. While not up to their KOTR 97 match in terms of in ring quality, this was more of a spectacle (LOVE Shawn's entrance here) than anything, and a brilliantly worked match for two guys fighting through about 83565 combined serious injuries. They kept the ball rolling with the Austin-Foley encounter from OTE, which was a fantastic blend of brawling and technical wrestling to boot, an easy MOTY contender in a lackluster year.

*MVP :* Shawn Michaels (for his courage)
*LVP :* Kane
*Best Performance in a Match :* HBK RR 98
*Most Underrated Performance in a Match : *Undertaker SS 98 (FUCKER was hurt as hell)
*Worst Performance in a Match :* Kane JD 98
*Most Overrated Performance in a Match :* The Rock/Mankind SS 98 .... Gave it to both guys as this gets more credit than it should.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

rock316ae: the wrestling poster version of fox 'unbiased' news


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

hey guys can you watch the rock/cena doc on netflix ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
I checked and it isn't up yet but it was just released a couple of days ago. Rock and Austin's last DVDs are up so I wouldn't be surprised if Rock/Cena is added, eventually.

That reminds me I need to watch the Austin documentary.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> I would have thrown some money at it (enough to get the DVD as a reward), but I'm broke. Ah well, at least I was able to give some to Nigel for his set (can't wait for that to be finish :mark:. Though not expecting it until next year now tbh).


I'm the opposite of you I was broke so wasn't able to give anything to Nigel  will be buying it whenever it's released though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched some of the WWE Championship DVD off netflix.

Taker/Angle/Rock - ***3/4

Honestly, I didn't care for this as much as most do. It was a bunch of finishers, finisher stealing, etc. There were parts of it I really enjoyed but I would take the Benoit/Trips/HBK and Edge/Trips/Cena ones over this anyday. Fun match, it just doesn't do much for me.

Cena/Christian/Jericho - ***1/2

Solid match, not as good as I remembered though. There just wasn't anything in the match that made it feel different than regular triple threats.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Brye said:


> Watched some of the WWE Championship DVD off netflix.
> 
> Taker/Angle/Rock - ***3/4
> 
> ...


Finally someone who agrees, it's maybe the most overated match i have come across, i have even seen some call it the best triple threat ever, Benoit/HBK/HHH blows it out the water.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Royal Rumble 2004 after the gym tonight. Anything to look out for other than Vince blowing his quads at the same time lol?


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Royal Rumble 2004 after the gym tonight. Anything to look out for other than Vince blowing his quads at the same time lol?


The quads thing was the Rumble 2005, which is a decent show but the rumble itself isn't as good as 2004, the quads thing is without a doubt one the funniest things I have ever seen.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Wasn't that 2005?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Royal Rumble 2004 after the gym tonight. Anything to look out for other than Vince blowing his quads at the same time lol?


Lol, that's 2005 you're thinking of. For 2004, be on the look-out for Benoit's awesome 61 minute run from being the first entrant to the winner! Pretty much all that's needed. Outside of the Rumble match and HHH/HBK, the rest of the show sucks, though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Oh fuck that's right. Vince was in with Cena and Batista when he blew his quads. My mistake. Can't wait to see Lesnar/Holly though. That should be fun...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

On paper the card for Rumble '04 looked fucking STACKED, but unfortunately everything on the undercard goes well under ten minutes and disappoints greatly. Rey/Noble was 3 minutes. :no:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Oh fuck that's right. Vince was in with Cena and Batista when he blew his quads. My mistake. Can't wait to see Lesnar/Holly though. That should be fun...


I thought that Lesnar/Holly match was pretty bad. They only get about 8 minutes and there's none of the intensity the build-up had. Plus about 5 minutes of it is pissed away with restholds.

And congrats on becoming a moderator. Which section, by the way?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WWE section lol. Bring on the lunacy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bob Holly should have beat Lesnar. Eddie Vs Holly would have been a way bigger moment for Eddie to win the title :side:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rumble Match
Lesnar/Holly
Trips/Shawn
Eddie/Chavo
Rey/Noble
Dudleyz/Naith & Batista

Looks decent enough. I love Rumble matches though. I'm a mark for them lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nothing is worth watching other than the Rumble tbh, but at least the Rumble is one of the GOAT .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watching the '07 Rumble at the moment. I can't wait to see the Taker/HBK epic battle at the end. It's so awesome.


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

WWE is on Netflix?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Anyone know if Summerslam 1997 was good? I just started just watching old episodes (I started 4 weeks prior to Summerslam 1997) so I have reached the PPV show. 

The only result I know is the Austin - Owen Hart match because that's the match Stone Cold injures himself.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Summerslam 97 is a good show, it has 3 really good matches in Foley v HHH, Owen v Austin and Taker v Bret, Shamrock-Bulldog is ok aswell.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Juelz Ventura™ said:


> WWE is on Netflix?


Yes sir. Loads of documentaries and occasionally they'll out an entire 3 disc set for ya. Think the most recent stuff Best of WCW Clash of the Champions and the last Rock set.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

God damn, Line in the Sand is a fucking epic entrance theme. Naitch :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. Did they ever use that theme when they were all in the same ring together for a brief reunion? I don't remember what episode of Raw it was, but I seem to recall them all being in the same ring and acknowledging the brief Evolution "reunion."


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If I ever heard that theme live I would mark out so hard. :lmao Naitch's promo after the match. :flair2 And then rapper Cena word mother frickin life. 15 mins in and I've been more entertained than I have by WWE in forever lol.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Got through about 1/3 of Jerichos doc, and is it just me or is he being too negative on himself? I'm up to the WM18 part, and he hasn't said much positive about his work besides Mexico/Japan/Steph. It's a great doc, but I found that odd


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What are you watching? RR04, or was that someone else?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah RR04. Opener was Flair/Batista vs. Dudleyz. Cena had a promo after it and RVD interrupted him. Was funny lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> If I ever heard that theme live I would mark out so hard. :lmao Naitch's promo after the match. :flair2 And then rapper Cena word mother frickin life. 15 mins in and I've been more entertained than I have by WWE in forever lol.


I found RVD's random appearance pretty funny on that Cena segment. That said, "Word mother-freaking life" was the start of Cena being watered down. As I'm watching 2004, heel Cena in 03 was SO much better, both as a wrestler (the start of 5 moves of doom for him is as a face) and with his raps. He sucks up way too much as a face.

And "Line in the Sand" is absolutely awesome! I specially love the beginning of it. Like Orton entering to "Burn In My Light" a lot more, though.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Ether said:


> Got through about 1/3 of Jerichos doc, and is it just me or is he being too negative on himself? I'm up to the WM18 part, and he hasn't said much positive about his work besides Mexico/Japan/Steph. It's a great doc, but I found that odd


If you read his books, he's quite down on most of his early WWE work apart from the Rock & Steph interactions. 

He even puts a downer on his debut, talking about he reacted in the wrong way to the Rock's insults, which negatively affected his career development.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That PPV was about when I get back into wrestling after stopping in ~99-2000.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

gotta say , Royal Rumble 2003 was much better in terms of the whole PPV , it's just that it was kinda obvious Lesnar was winning the Rumble match


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Kane-UK said:


> If you read his books, he's quite down on most of his early WWE work apart from the Rock & Steph interactions.
> 
> He even puts a downer on his debut, talking about he reacted in the wrong way to the Rock's insults, which negatively affected his career development.


I know, I was like what the fuck? Almost everyone I know says that debut is amazing


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jbardo said:


> Summerslam 97 is a good show, it has 3 really good matches in Foley v HHH, Owen v Austin and Taker v Bret, Shamrock-Bulldog is ok aswell.


 I'm going to watch it now. It seems that 'USA vs Canada' was pretty much the build up for this Summerslam lol.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Damn, suddenly saw the Starbuck with a red tag :shock. Red like this face :hhh here:

3:45





Congrats :vince.



Ether said:


> I know, I was like what the fuck? Almost everyone I know says that debut is amazing


I think it was more about the goofy facial expressions he did after Rock's promo. He came out to a huge reaction and a great segment with the Top guy in the industry but in the last second he almost turned himself into a comedy character when the crowd was ready to see him as a Top star. But it wasn't serious when you look back now because he did it in 2000 anyway. Still best debut of all time IMO.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Rock316AE said:


> Damn, suddenly saw the Starbuck with a red tag :shock. Red like this face :hhh here:
> 
> 3:45
> 
> ...


The faces was what his problem with it was. I can understand that, but it's not like it ruined or even hurt the debut imo.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

this needs to happen , and soon


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Rock316AE said:


> Damn, suddenly saw the Starbuck with a red tag :shock. Red like this face :hhh here:
> 
> 3:45
> 
> ...


LOL I love this promo, it's hilarious.

"Rock lemme compliment you on the lovely pajama top you have on". LOL.

-DFG


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Rocky Mark said:


> this needs to happen , and soon


Yes it does!

Love the concept art.

-DFG


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Top 10 Bret matches?

Mine

1) v Austin, Wrestlemania 13 - *****
2) v Bulldog, Summerslam 92 - *****
3) v Owen, Wrestlemania X - *****
4) v Mr Perfect KOTR 93 - ****3/4
5) v Austin, Survivor Series 96 - ****3/4
6) v 123 Kid, Raw 1994 - ****1/2
7) v Diesel, Survivor Series 95 - ****1/2
8) v Mr Perfect, Summerslam 91 - ****1/4
9) v Bulldog, IYH 95 - ****1/4
10) v Taker, One night only - ****1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Starbuck? Like, The Ryback? :bryan

Lol at Stephanie trying not to laugh in that video. Steph corpsing.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> The Starbuck? Like, The Ryback? :bryan
> 
> Lol at Stephanie trying not to laugh in that video. Steph corpsing.


You misspelled "The Wade Barrett?" :hhh

Stephanie Corpsing!?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I remember one promo with Trips, Kurt and Foley and she actually had to turn away from the camera because she was laughing lol. Promo was hilarious though so I can't blame her. 

So much fucking blood in the Trips/Shawn LMS. I miss JR on commentary . He makes the world a better place lol.

THE STARBUCK


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

NearFall said:


> You misspelled "The Wade Barrett?" :hhh
> 
> Stephanie Corpsing!?


sending Randy Savage to take care of stephanie ? hmm I don't think that usually turns out to be good 

BUCK'd !!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Jbardo said:


> Top 10 Bret matches?
> 
> Mine
> 
> ...


This list looks great. I would have Owen SummerSlam 94 and maybe Diesel Royal Rumble 95 somewhere in there if possible. Bret's got so many classics. I could add matches with Backlund, Benoit, Shawn (yes, the Iron Man), Canadian Stampede, Hart Foundation matches with Bulldogs/Brain Busters, tags with Owen, etc.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Final Four IYH w/Austin, Taker, Vader too.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

jericho doc was great, would recommend to anyone. Only gripe was that they didnt mention MITB at all.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Clique said:


> This list looks great. I would have Owen SummerSlam 94 and maybe Diesel Royal Rumble 95 somewhere in there if possible. Bret's got so many classics. I could add matches with Backlund, Benoit, Shawn (yes, the Iron Man), Canadian Stampede, Hart Foundation matches with Bulldogs/Brain Busters, tags with Owen, etc.


I really like the cage match v Owen but not as much as most others, love the Rumble match v Diesal but only seen it once, still havnt seen the Backlund match at Survivor Series 94, been on my must watch list for ages.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ether said:


> jericho doc was great, would recommend to anyone. Only gripe was that they didnt mention MITB at all.


How recent does the doc extend? Does it cover his latest run, or was it released beforehand?


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Ether said:


> jericho doc was great, would recommend to anyone. Only gripe was that they didnt mention MITB at all.


It wasn't until this year that they actually acknowledged him on TV as the kayfabe creator of the concept.

Speaking of which, I haven't been able to find the original promo where he was sat ontop of the ladder and announced the concept. If anyone has a link, it would be much appreciated!


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> How recent does the doc extend? Does it cover his latest run, or was it released beforehand?


September 2010


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sweet, thanks. I'll have to check it out. I love the DVD sets that include docs, but most seem to just be matches. I love the HBK DVD set that included a doc (Heartbreak & Triumph?).


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Sweet, thanks. I'll have to check it out. I love the DVD sets that include docs, but most seem to just be matches. I love the HBK DVD set that included a doc (Heartbreak & Triumph?).


Yeah, I really only check out DVDs that include Docs and good extras. I've usually seen most of the matches featured on the sets, so they're almost an afterthought.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If there's one thing I've noticed while watching this PPV (RR04), it's that everything feels more real compared to the artificial feel that goes along with WWE today imo. I don't know if that's to do with the investment in the characters combined with the experience level of the talent or because the overall presentation wasn't so clean back then. I don't know. But the video package for the Rumble match itself, when you compare it to the ones from today it's shocking how big of a difference there is. 

As an aside, holy fuck at that extra of HHH/HBK backstage after their match. Brutal. Absolutely brutal.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Same here. The only reason I bought the HBK/Hart rivalry DVD was for the doc/interview. Couldn't care less about the matches. I mean, who hasn't seen the Iron Man? It has been on tons of different DVDs already it seems.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Rocky Mark said:


> this needs to happen , and soon


That was supposed to be the first in the series. But I guess they thought Rock and Austin DVDs along with Hart/Michaels in the same room would be bigger. 

I hope to see this in the next year, 4 discs. 

1. Documentary like Rock/Cena. They have a lot of footage for Rock and Austin backstage like they showed in the Mania of WM. 

2. Interview like Bret and Shawn talking about the program. Rock/Austin/JR.

3. Matches and segments in order, like Rock/Cena.

4. Extras with all the off-air segments, rare interviews etc. 

So far, it was one of the best years ever for their DVDs, and you still got nWo(Hopefully objective, not rewriting history like typical WWE, Nash is there which should be great and I hope they can get Bischoff and Hogan)and Attitude Era DVDs in November. GOAT material.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> If there's one thing I've noticed while watching this PPV (RR04), it's that everything feels more real compared to the artificial feel that goes along with WWE today imo. I don't know if that's to do with the investment in the characters combined with the experience level of the talent or because the overall presentation wasn't so clean back then. I don't know. But the video package for the Rumble match itself, when you compare it to the ones from today it's shocking how big of a difference there is.
> 
> As an aside, holy fuck at that extra of HHH/HBK backstage after their match. Brutal. Absolutely brutal.


I know what you mean. The old stuff have that gritty and raw (no pun intended) feeling to them, the Attitude Era specially. Today, it looks like a theater on some soap opera shit. For instance, it was goofy as fuck earlier this year when Kane crawled through the hole inside the ring to "drag" Zack Ryder to "hell" whereas in previous renditions of a similar segment, you don't get that super-fake feeling. Going HD and the improved technology making the quality clearer has done that IMO. That's also why over-the-top gimmicks are a rarity nowadays because it's hard to pull off something like the Deadman without getting laughed at.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree with you guys. Just look at this promo and the grittiness in its presentation. They made you feel the animosity, there were stakes in the main events (championships, competition, or blood) that you cared about


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Clique said:


> I agree with you guys. Just look at this promo and the grittiness in its presentation. They made you feel the animosity, there were stakes in the main events (championships, competition, or blood) that you cared about


Hm, first time I've ever seen that promo, though I do think it's rather tame compared to this one from years earlier:






But I do agree Starbuck and Choke2Death. I think it's one of the things that has turned a lot of people away, but it's definitely made it a more kid friendly show, for better and/or worse.

And on the subject of video packages, I just watched a few from back then. HBK/HHH Bad Blood, Orton/HHH Unforgiven, EC 2002, Taker/Lesnar Unforgiven 02 and NM 02 and 03, and many others from that time period and all of them were fantastic. I think kick ass music is what's missing from a lot of video packages nowadays. Even one of the best in recent memory in Taker/HBK WM26 had music that greatly complimented the video. Of course it's not required as Punk/Cena from MITB last year shows, but it does add a lot imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rhodes/Ryder from Superstars this week is ***1/4, imo. Really enjoyed it.

Gabriel/Tensai was actually pretty entertaining too. Gabriel worked around Tensai's size really well. Wish it went longer, but I like seeing Tensai as a more human character.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Cover for the new nWo DVD/Blu-ray








This is a great cover. Simple but effective.


----------



## nooneeverwins (Jul 8, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm trying to start up a promotions company dedicated to Wrestling. I'm not sure where I want to go with it; magazine, webzine.. Something media based to start off with. 
Please, PLEASE give me a little support and give my page a like on Facebook 

Just search for POWERBOMB WRESTLING NEWS,
Thanks


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I still think that promo videos are still one of the areas that WWE succeeds at , while they definatley have moved away from a gritty/dark production style it hasn't resulted in a downward trend in quality.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I wasn't referring specifically to promo videos because they are one of the better things about the shows these days imo. I meant the actual content of the promos I suppose. I mean, that 2004 RR promo wasn't just about the numbers of the match or the fact that anybody could win and would get their Mania shot. There were stories within the promo. There was something tangible in it. Nowadays we just get DURR GET GUD NUMBER WIN DA RUMBLE. They had a story for Benoit set up, they had guys interacting with each other, they had the Raw vs. SD thing going on, the had the general manages rooting for their brands, they had JR making everything mean something. When I said that WWE today is rather artificial, that's what I meant. We all know the Rumble is important etc but it doesn't feel half as important or special today as it did in the past. It's important because WWE tells us its important, not because we are connected to a particular set of characters, any one of which could go on to win the thing and experience their dream. If any of that makes sense lol. WWE today = artificial and manufactured emotions connected to the product through poor storytelling and booking. WWE then = real and tangible emotions connected to the product through great storytelling and booking. You felt it because you felt it, not because WWE told you to.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucking HATE the RR promo vids they do now. Same damn thing ever year for the past what, 3 or 4 years now? Just that shitty "by the numbers" crap that only changes slightly as certain numbers get bigger because more people have entered into the match and shit. Boring, dull, uninspiring and a damn shame because I adore the RR match more than anything else all year.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I get what Starbuck is saying. Like the Royal Rumble in 01 where the had the story of Kane and Undertaker maybe on the same page and Rock and Austin, Rikishi. 






Just noticed Starbuck is a mod now. :jordan2


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm guessing they don't as I would of seen it but they don't have an Attitude Era DVD do they? I think all they have is the "Monday Night Wars" DVD, right?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> I'm guessing they don't as I would of seen it but they don't have an Attitude Era DVD do they? I think all they have is the "Monday Night Wars" DVD, right?


Attitude Era dvd will be out November 20th in the U.S. Idk about the UK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Fucking HATE the RR promo vids they do now. Same damn thing ever year for the past what, 3 or 4 years now? Just that shitty "by the numbers" crap that only changes slightly as certain numbers get bigger because more people have entered into the match and shit. Boring, dull, uninspiring and a damn shame because I adore the RR match more than anything else all year.


Plus when they talk about the winners from the number one spot, they say two have done it and only Shawn Michaels is displayed. Rather than blatantly disregarding Benoit while acknowledging him, they should find a way to cover it up.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> Plus when they talk about the winners from the number one spot, they say two have done it and only Shawn Michaels is displayed. Rather than blatantly disregarding Benoit while acknowledging him, they should find a way to cover it up.


How do you propose they do it without actually showing Benoit?

WWE (quite rightly) don't want to show Benoit in any kind of glory and by acknowledging his Royal Rumble achievement on-screen, they would be doing just that.

Just be thankful they haven't rewritten history and said HBK is the only person to do it.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> I wasn't referring specifically to promo videos because they are one of the better things about the shows these days imo. I meant the actual content of the promos I suppose. I mean, that 2004 RR promo wasn't just about the numbers of the match or the fact that anybody could win and would get their Mania shot. There were stories within the promo. There was something tangible in it. Nowadays we just get DURR GET GUD NUMBER WIN DA RUMBLE. They had a story for Benoit set up, they had guys interacting with each other, they had the Raw vs. SD thing going on, the had the general manages rooting for their brands, they had JR making everything mean something. When I said that WWE today is rather artificial, that's what I meant. We all know the Rumble is important etc but it doesn't feel half as important or special today as it did in the past. It's important because WWE tells us its important, not because we are connected to a particular set of characters, any one of which could go on to win the thing and experience their dream. If any of that makes sense lol. WWE today = artificial and manufactured emotions connected to the product through poor storytelling and booking. WWE then = real and tangible emotions connected to the product through great storytelling and booking. You felt it because you felt it, not because WWE told you to.


As a mod now you need to get out your Mr Mcmahon avatar and signature.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TheWFEffect said:


> As a mod now you need to get out your Mr Mcmahon avatar and signature.


Don't worry, I'll have it back up again at some stage lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Kane-UK said:


> How do you propose they do it without actually showing Benoit?
> 
> WWE (quite rightly) don't want to show Benoit in any kind of glory and by acknowledging his Royal Rumble achievement on-screen, they would be doing just that.
> 
> Just be thankful they haven't rewritten history and said HBK is the only person to do it.


I checked out the 2007 promo a few hours ago and that one is a good example. They don't specify "So and so have won from this number" and make it just a bunch of statistics. It's just a well done video that shows a lot of things that have taken place at the Royal Rumble, including epic endings, Kane destroying everyone in 2001 and so on. Just generally hyping the show up to be something that we get once in a year and should be excited about. With the statistic video, it is barely hyping up the event itself, it's just displaying a bunch of statistics, updated every year to include the previous year. And they make it clear that only 2 have won from #1, the same amount as #30 but they just show 3 people which handicaps it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

CM Punk vs John Morrison - ECW 9/4/07 - ****

Shit is awesome. I enjoyed their little feud as a whole but this was really a perfect way to end the storyline.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Brye said:


> CM Punk vs John Morrison - ECW 9/4/07 - ****
> 
> Shit is awesome. I enjoyed their little feud as a whole but this was really a perfect way to end the storyline.



Really glad this made it on Punks DVD, had such a big match feel to it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched Rickie Steamboat vs Randy Savage (WM 3) yesterday. Wow! what a match! great storytelling, commentary and psychology. 

Anyone know any great 1980s matches?


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


> Watched Rickie Steamboat vs Randy Savage (WM 3) yesterday. Wow! what a match! great storytelling, commentary and psychology.
> 
> Anyone know any great 1980s matches?



The Flair/Steamboat trilogy from 1989 are a must watch.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Benoit vs Austin 2/15/01: *** 3/4. Nonstop action, wish they focused less on HHH/Austin though

Benoit vs Austin 5/28/01: **** 1/4. Crowd and JR's commentary really added to the match. :lmao at Hebner pushing Vince down then getting stunnered. Aftermath was nice as well.

Checking out the 5/31 match soon


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> Watched Rickie Steamboat vs Randy Savage (WM 3) yesterday. Wow! what a match! great storytelling, commentary and psychology.
> 
> Anyone know any great 1980s matches?


*WWF*
Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan - Take your pick, most of them were really good.
Randy Savage vs. Ultimate Warrior - WrestleMania 7 was out-fucking-standing and their Summerslam match isn't that bad either. (This is from 1991, though - not the 1980's, still worth the watch)
Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior - WrestleMania 6 
Randy Savage vs. Bret Hart - Saturday Night's Main Event 1987

*NWA/AWA/Other*
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - 1989 trilogy
Magnum T.A vs. Tully Blanchard - I Quit Steel Cage Match from Starrcade '85
Ric Flair Vs. Ted Dibiase - Mid-South - 1985
Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkle - AWA 1986
Tully Blanchard vs. Ricky Steamboat - Starrcade '84

Those are just a handful of a massive amount of great 80's matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really need to check out some Flair stuff from his prime. I am only familiar with his WWE run from the last decade so it's fair to say I have some catching up to find out how great he really is.

And finished downloading The Rock/Cena DVD by torrent since I couldn't use any of the links at multimedia because of the premium/free limitations.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rey Mysterio vs John Morrison - SD '09 - ****
Sheamus vs John Morrison - TLC '10 - ****1/4
Miz vs Morrison - Raw '11 - ***3/4
Mysterio & Bourne vs Miz & Morrison - Raw '08 - ***1/4

Fuck, Morrison kinda owned in the ring, imo.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Just watched the Montreal Screw Job last night.

All I gotta say is WOW. What a match. A "Slobberknocker" as JR put it. This brawl was on its way to being a potential 5 star match in my opinion. The tension was incredible. From HBK and Rick Rude and co making their long entrance, and Bret Hart too, it had one of the best big match feels that I can remember. The brawling was awesome. In the crowd, up the ramp, everywhere. Michaels was getting an insane amount of heat, and Bret was the unequivocal hero. So cool. And then the in-ring work was just as exciting. Really beautiful stuff, all of the submissions: Brets figure four on the ring post (probably my favorite move of all-time), regular figure fours, the infamous Sharpshooter. They worked a terrific match.

And then Hebner calls for the bell. 

A feeling of incompleteness.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Bagwell. said:


> *WWF*
> Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan - Take your pick, most of them were really good.
> Randy Savage vs. Ultimate Warrior - WrestleMania 7 was out-fucking-standing and their Summerslam match isn't that bad either. (This is from 1991, though - not the 1980's, still worth the watch)
> Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior - WrestleMania 6
> ...


 Thanks mate. (Y)


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Not a problem at all. The DiBiase/Flair match is an underrated classic and it was WAY ahead of it's time, that's for damn sure. All I'll say is that there's quite a bit of blood from DiBiase in the very early goings.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When it comes to the 80's, you really can't go too wrong with any of the following guys:

Ric Flair
Ricky Steamboat
Barry Windham
Bob Backlund
Jake Roberts
Ted DiBiase
Randy Savage
Bill Dundee
Fantastics
Midnight Express
Rock n Roll Express
Anderson & Tully (Brainbusters)
The Rockers


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Bagwell. said:


> Not a problem at all. The DiBiase/Flair match is an underrated classic and it was WAY ahead of it's time, that's for damn sure. All I'll say is that there's quite a bit of blood from DiBiase in the very early goings.


 Will watch that match. A match involving Flair that I recently watched this week was against Mr. Perfect (1993). It was a loser leaves town match. Another classic match. In my opinion, it should have been on a PPV card not on RAW but still that doesn't take away from the match. 

It's a shame that wresting (or WWE) nowadays doesn't produce these great matches as much. Even the promos are lacking today. Sure we saw a great promo by Cena this past RAW but it just isn't consistent enough.

I don't know what year this was in but it's a classic from Piper...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That promo's from 1980 Vancouver, I think.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Just watched the Montreal Screw Job last night.
> 
> All I gotta say is WOW. What a match. A "Slobberknocker" as JR put it. This brawl was on its way to being a potential 5 star match in my opinion. The tension was incredible. From HBK and Rick Rude and co making their long entrance, and Bret Hart too, it had one of the best big match feels that I can remember. The brawling was awesome. In the crowd, up the ramp, everywhere. Michaels was getting an insane amount of heat, and Bret was the unequivocal hero. So cool. And then the in-ring work was just as exciting. Really beautiful stuff, all of the submissions: Brets figure four on the ring post (probably my favorite move of all-time), regular figure fours, the infamous Sharpshooter. They worked a terrific match.
> 
> ...


Gotta say this is a very underrated match. The irony is that in Bret and Shawn's last match they finally got it right. My favorite one-on-one of theirs easily. The hatred is there and it's very real. The crowd is also very much there. I was SO pissed this wasn't on the Bret and Shawn set. In terms of matches its the only one I care to have of theirs. I already have the Iron man and with the possible exception of Bret/Shawn '92.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Anyone know any great 1980s matches?


The 80's is the best era in wrestling history, in my opinion.

There are a lot of great matches, Lawler, Flair and Terry Funk are the bosses here. To name a few...

Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee 6/6/1983 & 30/12/1985(GOAT)
Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk - Memphis 23/3/1981 & 6/4/1981
Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell - Memphis 29/3/1982 & 22/3/1982
Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol - Memphis 27/4/1987
Jerry Lawler vs Randy Savage - Memphis 3/6/1985
Jerry Lawler vs Ric Flair - Memphis 14/8/1982
Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen - NJPW 23/9/1981
El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse - CMLL 14/9/1984
Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu - AJPW 28/1/1986
Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - AJPW 6/5/1989
Dick Murdoch vs Barry Windham - UWF 11/7/1987
Ric Flair vs Rikcy Steamboat trilogy & the two house show matches in 1989. 
Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Kazuo Yamazaki - UWF 24/7/1989
Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Riki Choshu - NJPW 6/9/1987
Terry Funk vs Stan Hansen - AJPW 14/4/1983
Terry Funk & Dory Funk vs Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy - AJPW 31/8/1983
Terry Funk & Dory Funk vs Stan Hansen & Brusier Brody - AJPW 8/12/1984
Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano - NJPW 10/8/1989

A lot of Ric Flair stuff like his matches with Wahoo McDaniel, Koko B Ware, Kerry Von Erich, Barry Windham, Terry Funk, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Morton, etc.



Bagwell. said:


> *WWF*
> Randy Savage vs. Bret Hart - Saturday Night's Main Event 1987


A very underrated match in my opinion, or at least people not spoke often about it, great limbwork on Savage by Bret and a perfect selling, he creates a lot of drama in this match too, great choise.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Ether said:


> Benoit vs Austin 2/15/01: *** 3/4. Nonstop action, wish they focused less on HHH/Austin though
> 
> Benoit vs Austin 5/28/01: **** 1/4. Crowd and JR's commentary really added to the match. :lmao at Hebner pushing Vince down then getting stunnered. Aftermath was nice as well.
> 
> Checking out the 5/31 match soon


Benoit vs Austin 5/31/01: **** 1/4. Great match, some spots looked fucked though (Austins boston crab, Benoits second sharpshooter).


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Coolquip said:


> Gotta say this is a very underrated match. The irony is that in Bret and Shawn's last match they finally got it right. My favorite one-on-one of theirs easily. The hatred is there and it's very real. The crowd is also very much there. I was SO pissed this wasn't on the Bret and Shawn set. In terms of matches its the only one I care to have of theirs. I already have the Iron man and with the possible exception of Bret/Shawn '92.


It's on the Blu-Ray of their rivalries DVD. The only reason I bought that DVD on Blu-Ray is for this match. I was disappointed though they don't show Brets tantrum at the end. 

I got to thinking though, in 97 this was a big match, but how many WWF fans hated Bret-HBK the way I don't care for Sheamus-Del Rio, for instance. Obviously their rivalry has stood the test of time, but I really hated HBKs sexy boy gimmick, and Bret Hart was borderline awkward in some of those promos. Just interesting to watch the evolution of professional wrestling. 

But, man, what a great match. Say what you want, maybe outside of NWO and Stone Cold, this is the arguably the best thing to happen to pro wrestling.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

more random matches

Gurrerro/Rock 7/22/02: *** 1/4
Rock vs the Dudleyz table match: ** 1/2, commentary saved it :lmao
Benoit vs A Train No Mercy 2003: ** 3/4. A train was on offense far too long for my liking, ending was good though.
Lesnar/Show/Taker SD 8/28/03: *** 1/4. Pretty good match, bad ending though.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KidCharlamagne said:


> It's on the Blu-Ray of their rivalries DVD. The only reason I bought that DVD on Blu-Ray is for this match. I was disappointed though they don't show Brets tantrum at the end.
> 
> I got to thinking though, in 97 this was a big match, but how many WWF fans hated Bret-HBK the way I don't care for Sheamus-Del Rio, for instance. Obviously their rivalry has stood the test of time, but I really hated HBKs sexy boy gimmick, and Bret Hart was borderline awkward in some of those promos. Just interesting to watch the evolution of professional wrestling.
> 
> But, man, what a great match. Say what you want, maybe outside of NWO and Stone Cold, this is the arguably the best thing to happen to pro wrestling.


I kinda think it's changed with the advantage of the Internet and as you said the evolution of pro wrestling. To be fair though, you could really see the animosity between the two compared to the bs between Sheamus/ADR. Also, I liked that both of them were heels and therefore did douchy things to one another and we're acknowledged as being douchy. Compared to the faces trying justify Sheamus' grand theft auto.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Anyone got the Rock/Cena DVD. Not the dl link but a video stream.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

watched some random HHH vs Shamrock match with Chyna as the ref just now and it was good. Great commentary.

And I just remembered randomly how biased that Rise and Fall of WCW DVD as. Almost as bad as the Warrior one.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just started watching Summerslam 1997. Mankind vs HHH (steel cage) first match. (Y)

Mankind's theme song is scary, :lol


----------



## apokalypse (Mar 13, 2005)

anyone watch Rock vs Cena dvd? there's a part where Cena laugh at the fans with the boo/cena suck chant but at the end of the day it's all about who sell the most Mercs...


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Attitude Era dvd will be out November 20th in the U.S. Idk about the UK.


Oh really. sounds great, thanks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the new Rock/Cena doc last night. Wasn't planning to get it, but bah, someone I sell discs to in real life (not over the interwebs lol) wanted it so I downloaded it for him. My thoughts on it?

Pile. Of. Shit.

Seriously, its horrible. Half of it being about twitter and social media didn't help either lol. A shitty documentary for a shitty DVD based on a shitty feud between 2 shitty wrestlers. Awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ya like it then Cal lol!!

I'll probably think the same tbh, the whole fued didn't and doesn't interest me one iota, and im actually a fan of The Rock but its one DVD I ain't watching or getting, even for free.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched the Rock/Cena DVD and it was highly uninteresting. I liked the part where Cena discusses his crowd reactions and whatever backstage footage they have before and after the match but otherwise, it was the same ol' shit we've seen a million times and twitter, twitter, twitter and more twitter.



Ether said:


> Benoit vs A Train No Mercy 2003: ** 3/4. A train was on offense far too long for my liking, ending was good though.


I love the ending. It was a couple of days after Stu Hart passed away. Benoit started regularly using the Sharpshooter from that point on as a tribute.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That Benoit/Albert match... that the one where Albert basically drops Benoit head first onto a steel chair? Ouch.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

IT'S BEGUN! Unblurring of the WWF logo. :mark:

So surreal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> That Benoit/Albert match... that the one where Albert basically drops Benoit head first onto a steel chair? Ouch.


Yep, Albert loses his grip and Benoit falls on his neck onto the steel chair. That must have really hurt bad. Benoit was truly a machine in the ring, nothing could stop him. He even came back out to finish TLC III with a concussion and almost even took a con-chair-to to the head.

By the way, I'm thinking of watching WWF from 1997 but where should I start? I'm too lazy to go through the whole year because the first few episodes have not really been anything interesting but I'm thinking of starting from SummerSlam onto DX's debut and then continue from there onto the whole Attitude Era.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Makaveli said:


> IT'S BEGUN! Unblurring of the WWF logo. :mark:
> 
> So surreal.


It began about 2 weeks ago . Regardless, it really is great news especially with the upcoming AE DVD set coming out.



Choke2Death said:


> Yep, Albert loses his grip and Benoit falls on his neck onto the steel chair. That must have really hurt bad. Benoit was truly a machine in the ring, nothing could stop him. He even came back out to finish TLC III with a concussion and almost even took a con-chair-to to the head.
> 
> By the way, I'm thinking of watching WWF from 1997 but where should I start? I'm too lazy to go through the whole year because the first few episodes have not really been anything interesting but I'm thinking of starting from SummerSlam onto DX's debut and then continue from there onto the whole Attitude Era.


The show after WM is probably the best place to start, though its worth going through the previous eps for the Austin/Bret Hart stuff and random bits from Vader, Undertaker, Sid and HBK (when he's actually there lol).


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

KingCal said:


> It began about 2 weeks ago . Regardless, it really is great news especially with the upcoming AE DVD set coming out.
> 
> 
> 
> The show after WM is probably the best place to start, though its worth going through the previous eps for the Austin/Bret Hart stuff and random bits from Vader, Undertaker, Sid and HBK (when he's actually there lol).


Well, I'm late to this party. lol

Haven't been keeping up with WWE's YT so I'm new. When is this AE set releasing? I haven't heard much.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Makaveli said:


> Well, I'm late to this party. lol
> 
> Haven't been keeping up with WWE's YT so I'm new. When is this AE set releasing? I haven't heard much.


Nov 20th in the US. http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-dvd-release-dates/ good site for news on DVD/Bluray sets .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep, Albert loses his grip and Benoit falls on his neck onto the steel chair. That must have really hurt bad. Benoit was truly a machine in the ring, nothing could stop him. He even came back out to finish TLC III with a concussion and almost even took a con-chair-to to the head.
> 
> By the way, I'm thinking of watching WWF from 1997 but where should I start? I'm too lazy to go through the whole year because the first few episodes have not really been anything interesting but I'm thinking of starting from SummerSlam onto DX's debut and then continue from there onto the whole Attitude Era.


 http://wrestlingbc.multiply.com/jou...n-HeAT-and-PPV-chronological-orders-and-dates 

I started on the first July episode of 1997 so that might be a good idea for you. I have reached Summerslam now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> http://wrestlingbc.multiply.com/jou...n-HeAT-and-PPV-chronological-orders-and-dates
> 
> I started on the first July episode of 1997 so that might be a good idea for you. I have reached Summerslam now.


Watching SummerSlam 97 as I'm typing this from that very link. I got hold of it a few weeks ago and it's damn useful for the AE and pre-2003 stuff which is the point where I'll stop and continue my journey from the end of 2004 until 2008. It might take a _long_ time but when I'm finished, I can officially call myself educated on WWE's best years! :cool2


And a bit before that, I finally rewatched the HIAC match between Undertaker and HHH.

I rate it at ****1/2. Like Punk/Cena at MITB, the feelings is not the same when you already know what happens beforehand which might explain why I rarely watch matches more than a couple of times. Slow start with them fighting outside the ring, then Hunter takes control and does his chair beatdown on Taker to the point where HBK almost stops the match before the Hell's Gate catches him. Crowd gets into extra and there's the SCM/Pedigree spot where even I believed that the streak would be over. After that, Taker sits up, takes control and starts performing a gang of his signature moves from the Snake Eyes/Big Boot combo to the Chokeslam. A bit of epic back and forth with great storytelling, then in a WM26 recall, HHH does the DX Chop taunt which leads to the Tombstone ending it once and for all! This match is more reliant on storytelling than actual wrestling and as such, it wont be as exciting as the very first time. Still a classic, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

CM Punk vs Mark Henry - Raw 4/2/12 - ****1/4

One of the best Raw matches we've had in years. Really believable, well done David/Goliath matchup. Crowd was really into it and they build Henry as such a monster. The comeback sequence and the build to it is awesomely done as well. Everything about this match just kinda owns.

CM Punk vs Mark Henry - Raw 4/16/12 - ***3/4

This wasn't as good as the 4/2 match but the No DQ element added to it well. I liked the finish quite a bit and I felt it still made Henry look good while putting over Punk big time.

Whoever the genius was that suggested a short Punk/Henry series within Punk/Jericho deserves a promotion. (Y)


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

What's the best HHH doc eer put out? And was the Show Doc good? Thanks


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Ether said:


> What's the best HHH doc eer put out? And was the Show Doc good? Thanks


Triple H: The Game from 2002 was pretty good.

-DFG


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*SummerSlam 1997:*

Mankind vs HHH - ***1/4
Goldust vs Brian Pillman - **
Legion of Doom vs The Godwinns - **1/4
British Bulldog vs Ken Shamrock - **1/2
Los Boricuas vs The Disciples of Apocalypse - **3/4
Owen Hart vs Stone Cold - ***1/4
The Undertaker vs Bret Hart - ***3/4

*Overall:* *** out of ***** (Not a bad first impression for the pre-Attitude Era stuff for me. The main event matches are great, the opener is decent but most of the stuff in the middle are standard tag team stuff or skippable.)


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

DrugFreeGeorge said:


> Triple H: The Game from 2002 was pretty good.
> 
> -DFG


any updated doc?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There is a HHH doc DVD on the 2013 schedule for WWE... but its been there for like the last 2 years and keeps getting cancelled. Who knows, maybe 2013 is the year its actually released .


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Ether said:


> any updated doc?


I may be wrong on this one, but I think The Game is still the most in-depth documentary on Triple H currently. The various other releases about him have been match compilations with the little documentary profile with others speaking about his career.

-DFG


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

KingCal said:


> There is a HHH doc DVD on the 2013 schedule for WWE... but its been there for like the last 2 years and keeps getting cancelled. Who knows, maybe 2013 is the year its actually released .





DrugFreeGeorge said:


> I may be wrong on this one, but I think The Game is still the most in-depth documentary on Triple H currently. The various other releases about him have been match compilations with the little documentary profile with others speaking about his career.
> 
> -DFG


Thanks both of you

Was Shows Doc good?


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Anyone else like Taker/Rey at RR 2010? I thought it was excellent. Wish we saw more matches between the two.

I have quite a few dream feuds involving Rey. Most notably Rock/Rey, Rey/HHH, and Rey/HBK.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *SummerSlam 1997:*
> 
> Mankind vs HHH - ***1/4
> Goldust vs Brian Pillman - **
> ...


 I'm just about to watch the Owen Hart vs Austin match but the PPV looks alright so far. Only decent match (As you said) before the main event was the opener. The million dollar winner crap in the middle of the show was a waste of time, although it was nice looking at Sunny and Sable. :cool2 . From what I've heard, the last two matches and the opener saved the show. The finish of the Brish Bulldog - Ken Shamrock match was disappointing as well. I just can't wait for Kane's debut though, I'm like 11 shows behind it


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

#Mark said:


> Anyone else like Taker/Rey at RR 2010? I thought it was excellent. Wish we saw more matches between the two.


Very good match. Had it at ***1/2 I think on last watch. All of their matches are at least good. Think they have 4 in total:

One in 2003
One in 2009
Two in 2010

Not sure though. The one in 2009 might've been in 2010.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just give me Mysterio/Triple H please. :sadpanda


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> I'm just about to watch the Owen Hart vs Austin match but the PPV looks alright so far. Only decent match (As you said) before the main event was the opener. The million dollar winner crap in the middle of the show was a waste of time, although it was nice looking at Sunny and Sable. :cool2 . From what I've heard, the last two matches and the opener saved the show. The finish of the Brish Bulldog - Ken Shamrock match was disappointing as well. I just can't wait for Kane's debut though, I'm like 11 shows behind it


I'm gonna first finish 2004 (and maybe watch 05 too) before I go on with the rest of 97. But yeah, SS 97 has three good matches and some standard tag team matches and two disappointing/horrible one-on-one matches. That Goldust/Pillman match was specially bad. ** is probably too generous of me. Things will likely be awesome once The Rock rises and Austin becomes an official main eventer in 98 and the following years speak for themselves.


----------



## djmathers1207 (Sep 9, 2011)

*Undertaker The Streak*

This dvd is a must buy in my opinion


----------



## volunteer75 (May 1, 2009)

*Re: Undertaker The Streak*

Awesome, been wanting to get it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> Just give me Mysterio/Triple H please. :sadpanda


I've convinced myself it's never happening because, it's probably never happening lol. Such a shame. Tweener HHH vs. Rey in 06 would have been awesome.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

#Mark said:


> Anyone else like Taker/Rey at RR 2010? I thought it was excellent. Wish we saw more matches between the two.
> 
> I have quite a few dream feuds involving Rey. Most notably Rock/Rey, Rey/HHH, and *Rey/HBK*.


Happened in 2005 RAW on the Eddie Memorial Show (kinda hard to watch due the circumstances) and Smackdown 2009 go home show to the Rumble. Great Match with a disappointing ending. I actually had it pretty high at about a ***3/4 but that's just me.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm gonna first finish 2004 (and maybe watch 05 too) before I go on with the rest of 97. But yeah, SS 97 has three good matches and some standard tag team matches and two disappointing/horrible one-on-one matches. That Goldust/Pillman match was specially bad. ** is probably too generous of me. Things will likely be awesome once The Rock rises and Austin becomes an official main eventer in 98 and the following years speak for themselves.


 Just finished watching it all. What's up with the botched endings? Hart - Austin was botched and the ending of HHH - Mankind looked awkward. What was Chyna trying to do? Also The brawl at the end of the 8 man tag team match was pretty weird. One of the D.O.A members goes on his bike in an attempt to run over the other wrestlers but then nobody hardly moves, they just continue to brawl acting like no one is trying to run them over :lol . One thing that I will give credit for is the amount of tag team/factions. We had L.O.D, Hart Foundation, New Black Jacks, that Puerto Rican faction, D.O.A, Nation of Domination, Godwins and etc. 

The Pillman/Golddust match may be good for a RAW show but was poor for the PPV standards. I rate this PPV a 7. Just three good matches and the other matches weren't good enough for a PPV like Summerslam.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Mankind/HHH ending was just awkward. Mankind was climbing down the cage while HHH played dead and Chyna came over just to check on him instead of doing something to help him win. Then Mankind randomly climbs back up and does that elbow drop and THEN we got a proper finish with Chyna dragging HHH through the door and Mankind climbing down at the same time.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Blu-Ray cover for WM 28 if you want the originally planned version:










To download: http://i46.tinypic.com/50gxeq.jpg

*Credit*: Lord Crumb

- Vic


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Get ready for an even weaker PPV in Grond Zero: In Your House. The two main events were pretty good (LOL WWE Title not main eventing), but the rest of the card was awful. Neither of the two main events were classics by any stretch though. One Night Only however was really good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched the Definitive Ric Flair DVD doc, really enjoyed it, very inspired to watch some Flair matches now, I thought it was great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You seen The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection DVD? OOP now I believe, but if you ain't got it, GET IT.

Alternatively I have about... 38 discs of Flair .

Edit: 44 discs of Flair including a 26 disc comp, a 10 disc "in japan" comp, a 3 disc "the end" comp (his final run in WWE), and a 5 disc "Vs Ronnie Garvin" comp .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah mate, bought a new (had to go Region 1) copy a couple of months ago, think I'll watch that next, always loved Flair's work and his whole persona but I may be getting a comp from you at some point (probably the Japan one) so many great matches I probably havnt seen


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still so many great matches I haven't seen lol. One day I'll actually go through the comp myself .

Flair's Ultimate Collection is easily a top 2 DVD set ever released by WWE. WATCH IT NOW.


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Flair's Ultimate Collection is easily a top 2 DVD set ever released by WWE. WATCH IT NOW.


A charity shop near my house was closing down a few weeks ago and I picked up that, the Bret/Shawn rivalry and UFC 1+2 dvds for a combined 12 euros, best score of the year.
Ive always had a soft spot for the Flair/HHH taboo tuesday cage match from that set, even by Rics standards things get insanely bloody, his whole head turns a bright orangey red.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I hope it's alright to link to another board but it's relevant...

http://www.puroresu.tv/forums/topic/696-shawn-michaels-greatest-of-all-time/

Inspired by this, I decided to check out what many consider HBK's best match to see if it holds up...

*Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Hell in a Cell - WWF Badd Blood 1997*
Watching this really fizzles out any thoughts that I had on Michaels being a bad worker after reading some comments online. Hell, he actually is a pretty good one. Sure his overselling did make a few 'serious' moments seem overly cartoony, but he also made other spots seem more barbaric and brutal because of the way he bumped. Shawn also gets criticized for his 'kip-up' comeback totally disregards any damage he had taken previously, which is probably my main issue with Shawn's matches nowadays. Here though, it wasn't a problem. Shawn being the dickhead heel that he is, didn't get a big comeback (being the heel and all...) and used the kip-up to show his arrogance after finally taking control of the Undertaker.

To give some perspective of how highly I rate Michaels nowadays; If I was to compose a list of top 50 WWE ring workers, I could definitely see HBK making the cut. Wrestlers still active in the WWE that I would rate above Michaels are Punk, Cena, Mysterio, Bryan, McIntyre and possible Ziggler. This topic really has changed my opinion on Michaels. I rate him nowhere near as highly as I used to and the criticisms really have opened my eyes to some of Michaels' faults, but it's really not enough to take Michaels out of the 'Good' bracket.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania 5). I rate the match 3 stars. Started slowly but it improved as the match went on. Hogan becoming the first to kick out of Savage's elbow drop was cool to see.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Been watching RAW throughout 1998 on the 05.04.98 RAW Terry Funk Vs Mick Foley (after throwing Dude Love and all his gimmicks away earlier in the night) was a chaotic match they obviously both loved it aswell.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Wow the Big Show doc was pretty awful, only about an hour long, only 10 minutes spent on his WCW career, seems like they half assed it.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Love the Ric Flair set, went into it liking him and came out of it loving him. Such a great worker and character

My favourite set is probably either the Savage one or Mysterio Biggest Little man. Have a real soft spot for the Guerrero Viva La Raza set as well

I keep getting drawn to the Kane set on Silvervision for some reason, is it any good?


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Phil_Mc_90 said:


> I keep getting drawn to the Kane set on Silvervision for some reason, is it any good?


Only if you're a Kane fan.

There's no documentary part to it. It's just a series of Kane matches from his debut up until 2008 where Kane himself is the one doing the link segments.

There's some good matches on there (Edge 2005 series, Shane O Mac etc) and it covers most of his big feuds, but I think it would be a tough watch for someone who isnt a fan of Kane already.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just ordered Backlash 2007 as I have heard good things about it.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Still so many great matches I haven't seen lol. One day I'll actually go through the comp myself .
> 
> Flair's Ultimate Collection is easily a top 2 DVD set ever released by WWE. WATCH IT NOW.


What's other top one?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Coolquip said:


> What's other top one?


TOMBSTONE


----------



## ForestCrush (Aug 18, 2012)

Im watching Backlash 2005. I havent watched it in a long time. How is the Edge vs Benoit LMS match?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash '07 fucking OWNS.

Edge/Orton/Cena/HBK - ****1/2
Batista/Taker - ****1/4
Umaga/Vince/Shane vs Lashley - ***
MVP/Benoit - ***1/2
Melina/Mickie - **3/4
Murdoch/Cade vs Hardyz - ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just curious... Do you guys catalouge your reviews ? I mean, do you have a list of all of your **** 3/4 matches, **** 1/2 matches , etc ? Just wanted to know what you guys have at **** 3/4 (since we listed ***** matches about a week ago) ?

Anybody else think that Punk-Cena can pull out another ****+ match tonight ? I think the success of the card practically hinges on that match.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I'd be surprised if they don't pull out a ****+ match tbh. They have stupidly good chemistry together, a hot crowd (I'm guessing) to perform in front of and a cool storyline revolving around the match. I'm getting major MITB 2011 vibes for tonight's match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Just curious... Do you guys catalouge your reviews ? I mean, do you have a list of all of your **** 3/4 matches, **** 1/2 matches , etc ? Just wanted to know what you guys have at **** 3/4 (since we listed ***** matches about a week ago) ?
> 
> Anybody else think that Punk-Cena can pull out another ****+ match tonight ? I think the success of the card practically hinges on that match.


I do not catalog my reviews. I just either know what I always give matches, or I usually am within a 1/4* range. ****3/4 matches, all I can think of right now are (not necessarily in order): Taker/Lesnar NM03, Taker/Edge SS08, Austin/Angle SS01 and HBK/Y2J WM19. I'm sure there's more though.

I expect the whole PPV to actually be a good one. A lot of potential in a lot of the matches, and with Punk/Cena I bet we'll see one hell of a match. Could even be a classic with the amount of potential. Other matches I expect to be good-great are Orton/Ziggler, Kane-Bryan/Kofi-Truth, Miz/Rhodes/Cara/Mysterio (really can't wait for the Mysterio/Cara interaction), and even Sheamus/Del Rio, because while they've had nothing spectacular in the past, they are both good in ring workers and with the brogue kick being banned it might actually work in the match quality's favor similar to what happened in Edge/Ziggler RR 2011.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Just curious... Do you guys catalouge your reviews ? I mean, do you have a list of all of your **** 3/4 matches, **** 1/2 matches , etc ? Just wanted to know what you guys have at **** 3/4 (since we listed ***** matches about a week ago) ?
> 
> Anybody else think that Punk-Cena can pull out another ****+ match tonight ? I think the success of the card practically hinges on that match.


As of early this year I started putting all matches ***+ in a notepad document categorized by Rating, Date, and Promotion. I rarely put things in the ****1/4+ range since I started rating so I only have 4 of 700ish matches at ****3/4.

The only WWE match is the Undertaker/Michaels HIAC. There is also Flair/Sting from COTC1. There is so much stuff I havent watched though, since I started watching wrestling in mid '08. I haven't watched so many classics.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Just curious... Do you guys catalouge your reviews ? I mean, do you have a list of all of your **** 3/4 matches, **** 1/2 matches , etc ? Just wanted to know what you guys have at **** 3/4 (since we listed ***** matches about a week ago) ?
> 
> Anybody else think that Punk-Cena can pull out another ****+ match tonight ? I think the success of the card practically hinges on that match.


I've never saved my 'work' once I've stopped needing it. (at school or on internet) Maybe I should rethink that, though.

And for Backlash 07, I've seen the two World Title matches and the US Title match. All three are great.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Just curious... Do you guys catalouge your reviews ? I mean, do you have a list of all of your **** 3/4 matches, **** 1/2 matches , etc ? Just wanted to know what you guys have at **** 3/4 (since we listed ***** matches about a week ago) ?
> 
> Anybody else think that Punk-Cena can pull out another ****+ match tonight ? I think the success of the card practically hinges on that match.


Nah I don't, I might soon though if I get enough free time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got a huge list of ratings from LITA!!! to ***** (LITA!!! rating was a match that I didn't care about but had LITA at ringside or something ). Its out of date though. Got TONS of reviews saved and shit though, going back to my first one ever!


----------



## LariatSavage (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm going to have to say Night of Champions is my PPV of the year!

Full Night of Champions 2012 Review


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Cena and Orton/Ziggler were worthy of four snowflakes. Excellent PPV full of great in-ring action.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

NOC was alright. The sum was greater than (most of) its parts.

Mysterio/Cara/Rhodes/Miz ~ **1/2
Bryan + Kane/Kofi + Truth ~ **1/2
Ryder/Cesaro ~ **3/4
Ziggler/Orton ~ **1/2
Eve/Layla ~ **3/4(ya rly)
Sheamus/Del Rio ~ didn't watch lol
Punk/Cena ~ ****


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*First Take*
*Night of Champions 2012*

Miz/Cara/Mysterio/Rhodes *****
Team Friendship/Kofi&Truth *** 1/4*
Cesaro/Ryder *** 1/4*
Orton/Ziggler ******
Layla/Eve *MEH*
Sheamus/Del Rio **** 1/2*
Cena/Punk ***** 1/2*

*Overall: 7.5/10*

Pretty strong PPV in my eyes


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE Night of Champions 2012 : First Take*


IC Championship 
The Miz(c) vs Sin Cara vs Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio : *** 3/4*

WWE Tag Team Championship
Kofi Kingston/R-Truth(c) vs Daniel Bryan/Kane : *** 1/2*

US Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Zack Ryder : *** 1/2*

Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton : **** 3/4*

Divas Championship
Layla (c) vs Eve Torres : ** 3/4*

World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus (c) vs Alberto Del Rio : *****

WWE Championship
CM Punk (c) vs John Cena : ***** 1/2*

_Initial Thoughts :_

Before I wrote this , I took the time to look at some other "WORLD-FIRST" reviews of this show , and I saw terms like "best show of the year" and "fucking awesome" to describe it. How would I PERSONALLY describe this show, well I can encapsulate my feelings for this show in one word : Good. This was good stuff, I just don't believe it's as great as what the rest of the masses are saying at the moment. There were various matches throughout the show that I just looked at and said "well THAT'S not that great" , and I'm going to give you a few examples of this....

The first 3 matches have been receiving consistent ***+ ratings all night. I could not disagree with this more, as I thought these were all OKAY matches, but nothing special. The Tag and US title matches both went shorter than 10 minutes and weren't special whatsoever, while the IC match average-ish for a PPV match but featured some truly horrendous wrestling at times from Cara and The Miz. Rhodes and ESPECIALLY Mysterio saved it for sure. Divas match gets partial credit from time to time and I don't know why, it was just your standard bad WWE Divas match in 2012.

Sheamus/Del Rio was a good encounter with some drama and heat behind it, liked the slow build and all the teases of the Brogue kick throughout. These two always put on GOOD matches, but to be main-event caliber you have to get out of that GOOD gear and step it up to the next GREAT gear, which brings me to the two men who should have been fighting for the World Title tonight , Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton. These 2 just went out there with tons of time and made everybody believe that they should be the featured players on smackdown. Loved how Ziggler incorporates the sleeper holds in his matches, love his hustle as well. These two will most definitely go at it again for the title in the future (Rumble ? Wrestlemania triple threat with Sheamus ?) , and I can't wait to see what happens next.

Now we get to the bread and butter of the show, the match that everybody came out to see in Cena-Punk III (on PPV anyways). I have a few things to say about this match, and I'm going to start with the obvious : This match was awesome, and I don't think that anybody can dispute that. Both men brought out that extra special in this one, from their facial expressions right down to their movesets (Cena's suicide dive, Punk's Rock Bottom). The story here was classic, simple, and effective : Neither man can stop the other, there can't be a winner. Completely cool with the ending here, as it sets up what should be another classic from these two in the Cell.

At the moment I'm having a really tough time gauging where I should put Punk-Cena III. I think it's the weakest of their 3 PPV encounters, but I also think it's an all time classic and another on the list of fantastic matches this year. ***** 1/2 is good for now, but it could go up or down after a rewatch.*

*7/10*

As for PPV's this year, it goes like this :

Extreme Rules : 9
Wrestlemania : 8.5
Over the Limit : 7.5
Night of Champions : 7
Summerslam : 7
No Way Out : 6.5
Money in the Bank : 6.5
Royal Rumble : 6
Elimination Chamber : 5.5

MOTY RANKINGS (as of Sep 17th 2012)

1. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan OTL
2. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena ER 
3. CM Punk vs John Cena NOC 
4. Triple H vs The Undertaker HIAC WM XXVIII
5. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho WM XXVIII
6. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ER 12
7. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar SS 
8. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ER
9. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan MITB
10. CM Punk vs Mark Henry RAW Apr 2
11. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane NWO 
12. Dolph Ziggler vs Sheamus NWO 
13. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler NOC


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Night of Champions 2012

Miz/Cara/Mysterio/Rhodes ***
Team Friendship/Kofi&Truth ** 1/2
Cesaro/Ryder ** 
Orton/Ziggler **** 1/4
Layla/Eve Didn't watch
Sheamus/Del Rio Missed half the match
Cena/Punk *** 3/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IC 4-Way- my least favourite match of the night. Cody and Miznain are the most boring by-the-numbers wrestlers there are. Mistico's a botch and always has been (can people stop pretending he was really good in Mexico?). Another waste of Rey Mysterio. God this was bad.

Tag Title Match- If this was another other than Bryan Danielson, it'd be garbage, but the Kane thing is kind of cool and this match didn't suck. 

US title- Pretty squashy to begin with, but Ryder makes his comeback and it was pretty damn good. Felt like a cool Supertars main event and that uppercut was nasty. Everything Claudio did looked good and if he matches up with a Christian or a Rey I'll watch it.

Orton/Ziggler- Not only do I find Ziggler horribly overrated, I almost can't hide the fact anymore that I pretty much flat out dislike him at this point. He has such a crappy back-and-forth formula to his big matches and you'd almost have no fucking clue he's working as the heel. This got better as time went on (that barricade bump ruled), but this in general was boring.

Diva's Title- Eve heeling it up added something to this, but it went too long. I feel like a dumbass for saying that about a seven minute match, but w/e. This was fine and I liked it way more than the 4-way.

WHC- Sheamus' kick being unbanned after being banned not long before is a head-scratcher, but shit, this was good. I never understood people bitching about Sheamus not selling the arm during the Danielson stuff, and this was a good job of it as well. I especially liked him while he was actually in the armbreaker. People in the crowd chanting "Ziggler" had stopped by the end of this and seemed happy Sheamus retained. Am I the only one who really liked this? 

WWE Title- This definitely overdid the finisher stuff, I think. Got a little annoying toward the end and I really hated the finish, but this was sure as hell good and definitely match of the night. Punk having a lot of cool counters for stuff and Cena just being the Hulk was a really theme that was pretty much made my JBL's commentary. One of my problems with Cena is the he tends to..... I don't know how to put it...... look to tired, too early, I guess. But Punk took most of the first half of the match and Cena was good working from the bottom (surprise). Loved how he sold the boxing punches. I'll never be a fan of Cena's pop-up comebacks but they don't stick out as too egregious. This has a lot of cool shit I don't feel like going into too much detail on, like Cena hitting the FKS without any theatrics and Punk countering other attempt by just shoving his boot up Cena's armpit were examples, but yeah, I'd definitely watch this again.

Not a bad show at all. Is Michael Cole turning babyface?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Night of Champions 2012

Miz/Cara/Mysterio/Rhodes ***
Team Friendship/Kofi&Truth ***1/4
Cesaro/Ryder **
Orton/Ziggler ***1/2
Layla/Eve: **1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio: ***
Cena/Punk ****

Top 10 MOTY Now:

1) Punk vs. Bryan OTL- *****
2) Punk vs. Jericho WM28- ****1/2
3) Bryan vs. Sheamus ER- ****
4) Jericho vs. Punk ER- ****
5) Punk vs. Cena NOC- ****
6) Punk vs. Henry Raw 4/2/12- ****
7) Taker vs. HHH WM28- ****
8) Punk vs. Bryan vs. Kane NWO- ***3/4
9) Jericho vs. Orton vs. Sheamus vs. Del Rio- ***3/4
10) Punk vs. Ziggler RR- ***3/4


----------



## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Not a bad show at all. Is Michael Cole turning babyface?


i don't think so, probably they work in that way because JBL is a better heel and they had a heel/face dinamic before in SD

Also agree with the toughts of the Punk/Cena Match, they went totally overboard with the nearfalls, at the end it was annoying as heel


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Miz/Cara/Mysterio/Rhodes ** 1/2
Bryan&Kane/Kofi&Truth ***1/4
Cesaro/Ryder ** 1/2
Orton/Ziggler *** 1/2
Layla/Eve: **1/4
Sheamus/Del Rio: ** 1/2 (different ending would have brought this up a star)
Cena/Punk ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Miz/Cara/Mysterio/Rhodes 1/2* (seriously this was fucking shit)
Team Friendship/Kofi&Truth ** (entertaining thanks to Bryan and Kane. Shame they didn't have anyone decent to work the match with)
Cesaro/Ryder ** (liked this a ton more than I expected considering my severe dislike towards Ryder)
Orton/Ziggler ***3/4 (loved this)
Layla/Eve: ** (this was... pretty good. Eve worked her character into the match wonderfully. Great wrestler? Not so much. Great performer? She seems to be getting there tbh)
Sheamus/Del Rio: *** (wasn't paying much attention to this one since on paper it bored the shit out of me. Looked waaay better than I was expecting from the bits I did pay attention to though)
Cena/Punk **** (this... wasn't what I was expecting from them tbh. That being said, I really enjoyed a lot of stuff they did. I might consider a re-watch and doing a write up on it at some point because there is a lot I want to say about it. Finish was a fuckload of shit though, and just how many finishers were there? Felt like at least 3 each. And it didn't feel like the kind of match that needed that. Excited about the rematch though, because yeah, its gonna fucking happen. Just please let Punk end this rivalry clean and on top).

Overall a super fun show to watch live. I wasn't gonna bother, but I got a link for a stream for Seabs, and ended up watching it. Then I said to myself "as soon as I get tired or really bored, I'll go to bed". Went to bed at 4am when it finished .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Night of Champions:*

Fatal Four Way - **1/4 (Very disappointing and slow. Plus not enough Cara/Mysterio interaction which I guess they're saving for Wrestlemania.)

Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler - ***1/4 (Pretty good match as usual between these two. Not their best but they did a great job nonetheless with a lot of back and forth action. Crowd was shit but the in-ring action was decent enough to cover up for it. Plus Orton's middle finger to them was epic!)

Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio - *** (One of their better matches but still boring because it's been the third time in a row on PPV and Sheamus continues to rightfully go over clean which makes it too predictable.)

CM Punk vs John Cena - ***3/4 (Pretty good work by both men and also features some unusual stuff like Cena doing a suicide dive and Punk doing a greatly executed Crossface to his credit. Lacked the atmosphere of MITB and even SummerSlam but they were inspired enough to put on some great effort. There were some botches, though. Mainly the awkward Moonsault where Punk landed far away from Cena's position or the German Suplex being done too fast without Punk standing on the top turnbuckle for the best execution possible. And the finish was shit too but still the usual quality you get when these two work together.)

IDGAF about the rest but the backstage segment with Bryan and Kane was just pure gold! Oh, and JBL breathed some much needed life into the commentary booth when Lawler's horrible commentary is absent. (although I'm glad he's making a recovery, I hope he just retires for good now)


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

*Night of Champions 2012*
1)The Miz VS Cody Rhodes VS Sin Cara VS Rey Mysterio ** - Slow and poor overally really. Watchable.

2)Antonio Cesaro VS Zack Ryder ** - Meh. Again, nothing special outside of Swiss Death which shoulda ended it

3)Daniel Bryan and Kane VS Kofi Kingston and R-Truth **1/2- Entertaining. But not a really good match.

4)Sheamus VS Alberto Del Rio ***1/4- Finally a match of theirs I enjoyed. I am hoping this ends their series though

5)Randy Orton VS Dolph Ziggler ***1/2- A good match from these guys. Not fully what they can do but put on a decent match none the less

6)CM Punk VS John Cena ****- Great match. I enjoyed it quite a bit, however Cena's continous kicking out of finishers was crazy. Loved the Rock Bottom spot and wished it ended there. Ending itself many hate, but I think it is OK. A heel will never beat Cena clean, Lesnar didn't even..., sad case as Punk really needs it but oh well. At least he retained.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Looking at NearFall's signature just reminded me of one thing. There were FAR too many finishers used, specially towards the end.

GTS - kick out!
FU - kick out!
GTS - kick out!
FU - kick out!
GTS - countered into STF
STF - countered into Crossface
Anaconda Vice - countered into STF
Rock Bottom - kick out!

And on top of that, match didn't even end with a finisher. That brings it down a notch for me too.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

I had even forgot about the 2 FUs lol. Punk was not made look particularly weak in that sense, especially with the STF too. But I can't help but shake the feeling that the Rock Bottom should have been saved for a match where Punk finally pins Cena, be it off distraction(actually, could have happened if they restarted the match as he walked over to Punk last night) or after foreign object. In order to set the tone. Having Cena just randomly kicking out dimished it for me. Then again, the whole "possession" of finishers applies, where the owner typically is stronger at it.

I think the tally of kicked out/escaped finishers was:

Punk: FU,FU,STF,STF

Cena: GTS,GTS,RockBottom,Anaconda Vice

Some numbers like that. Crazy.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The amount of finishers at the end of the match really hurt it for me. I'd give it **** but a better finishing stretch would have really helped.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

2 finishers each kicked out of is pretty tame for WWE main events, compare that to Taker/HHH, Taker/HHH, Austin/Rock, Angle/HBK, Savage/Hogan, Austin/Angle etc and it doesn't stand out as other-worldly. Also don't really see how the Rock Bottom being kicked out can necessarily be a 'finisher' kickout, its not Punk's move and its very rarely an opponent wins a match by using another wrestler's finisher (even when Jericho defeated Rock he had the belt shot to further weaken Rock) due to the kayfabe logic that certain wrestlers can execute a move in a more deadly sense than others: e.g Austin kicking out of the stunner, Taker kicking out of a tombstone, Rock kicking out a Rock Bottom etc. If the Rock hit a GTS in his next match would anyone actually buy it as the finish? Course you wouldn't, its done as a story/character element and in that sense added to the Punk/Cena match on a few levels: it was a subtle shot at Rock by Punk who knows he could be facing him at Royal Rumble & Cena kicking out of the move that beat him in the biggest match of his career was a nice callback and would have been a believeable false finish to his younger fans unaware of how stealing signature manouevres generally works in a wrestling match.

Also don't really see why Cena countering the GTS into the STF is necessarily apart of 'finisher abuse'. If countering submissions counts as abusing your finisher then Benoit had umpteen 'spam finisher' matches. Now I don't believe for a second that to be the best analogy, but you get my drift. To pick at both guys managing to counter the other's best submission at crucial moments seems a little odd imo, I can't argue with people arguing the kickouts were too much if that's their view, but I can't see how 2 counters can be used as an example of finisher whoring: surely spamming a submission finisher would involve the wrestler using it for a considerable amount of time and on a regular basis instead?

Anyways, the kickouts were fine, although I wished they could have spaced them out a little better and sold the damage in between, rather than getting one instance of Cena powering up too quickly to hit Punk with an AA. Finishers being kicked out of isn't a bad thing, but it has to be done in the right context and timed well enough to protect the move, Cena's AA hasn't been a credible automatic match finisher in a 'big' match for years now, HHH/HBK/Punk/Batista/Sheamus/Barrett (sure he kicked out of it at HIAC in 2010)/Orton etc have all kicked out of it enough for it to not come as a shock when it doesn't win a match. The key with WWE here is that its an automatic TV finisher and in most cases, should be an automatic PPV finisher unless the opponent is of around main event credibility. That allows it to always be viewed by many as a match ender (I didn't buy either AA beating Punk for the record, but in the PPV discussion thread it seems a shit-ton of folk bought the 2nd AA as the finish) despite it hardly being as well protected as the Hell's Gate or Taker's tombstone between 2004-2008 (pretty sure Edge at WM 24 was the first to kick out of the Tombstone since Taker returned with the Deadman Gimmick and used it regularly as a finisher back at Wrestlemania 20). 

Punk's GTS as well has been incredibly well protected, to the point where prior to last night I can only recall Hardy back in 2009 (and tbf it wasn't as big a finisher as it has been since Punk's face turn), HHH (sure he kicked out of 1 at NOC a year ago) and Bryan at MITB as being the only people to kick out of it. Now I might be missing 1 or 2 people, but the point remains that its a largely well protected finisher aside from the biggest matches, to the point where Cena kicking out of two was a big deal. Now don't get me wrong I'd have preferred there to be a little downtime between the contact and the pin to at least further protect the move, rather than Cena kicking out TWICE after being instantly hit with the move.

Still, the finisher kickouts served a purpose, and had they been layed out a bit better and perhaps more thought gone into making the move look good without ending the match (Cena doing the out of the ring bump he did off the 1st GTS back at MITB 2011 for example was a great way to make it look deadly but serve as a reasonable reason for not ending the match) then it would have been a truly sensational finishing stretch. As it is, there's enough storytelling there to argue the kickouts meant something: Punk controlling the match in a way that resembled Cena's control in the middle half of the MITB bout only to grow more and more fearful with every kickout was a picture perfect way to play off of the build about Punk having to prove himself as well as turning the MITB match on its head, with Cena now working from the bottom and having to survive Punk's best offence in order to win the match. I never got the impression the finishing stretch wasn't needed, as you can often get in Indy/TNA matches where the kickouts don't feel nearly as important and monumental due to the little protection most finishers receive there, but it definitely didn't capture the MITB finishing stretch in terms of achieving a satisfactory balance between creating an enthralling nearfall dynamic whilst still retaining immense credibility in the respective finishers (moreso the GTS given Cena never kicked out of it during the match).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Were the ring ropes pink?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

NOC

F4W: *1/2
DBry&Kane/TRuth/Kofi: **
Cesaro/Ryder: **1/4
RKO/Ziggles: ***
Layla/Eve: Skipped
Fella/Rio: **1/2 (sick of their matches together)
Cena/Punk: ***1/2 (1/2* knocked off the finisher fest and shitty ending)


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The whole arc of the Cena V Punk match was that they couldn't beat each other. So it makes sense for them to keep nailing their finishers on each other. And the Rock Botton spot and the AA right after it had my fucking heart in my mouth. So it worked for me.

****1/2 for it. LOVED IT. Second best match of the year (think I'm on my own in this one)


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Brye said:


> The amount of finishers at the end of the match really hurt it for me. I'd give it **** but a better finishing stretch would have really helped.


Have you got around to watching the Cody and Seth match from Ft. Pierce yet?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

11rob2k said:


> Have you got around to watching the Cody and Seth match from Ft. Pierce yet?


Nah, I've been kinda busy. :/


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll download Cena/Punk when I get the time. If it was just a finisher fest then I should love it since I like Taker/HHH Mania 27 so much 8*D. Although I have to say, just from reading the match report it does sound rather ridiculous what went down in the home stretch. The finish itself sounds retarded, especially after coming after said finisher fest. I can't judge for myself yet because I obviously haven't seen it but from the sounds of things, the finish seems to have turned a lot of people off. 

In other news, NWO 04 for me tonight. 

Brock/Eddie
Angle/Cena/Show
Rey/Chavo
Nidia/Noble
2 Cool/Bashams
Holly/Rhyno
APA/WGTT
6 man tag

Looking forward to the first 2 lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fucking love Eddie/Lesnar. (Y)


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Wrote this in the MOTYC thread, thought I'd post my thoughts here too ...

*Punk vs Cena* was an odd one for me. I seriously thought for the first two thirds it was going to my new MOTY. They kind of lost me towards the end, but not because I actually thought anything was bad. Punk working on top is where he really shines, and working from the bottom is where Cena is best, so that structure really worked and it played off their two PPV matches last year. Punk's facial expressions throughout while he constantly one upped and cut Cena off were amazing. Loved how he had a counter for everything, and basically wrestled a perfect match but still couldn't put Cena down and got gradually more and more pissed about it. The interactions with Heyman outside (who was amazing btw) reminded me of Austin/Rock @ WM 17 with Austin getting so frustrated and looking to Vince for advice etc. Really added a lot to the match imo and it was a great story. Match really made both guys look like the top guys in the company and I loved them both having to bust out new shit because they couldn't get the job done. Cena's suicide dive was surreal and awesome and wonderful. Punk's moonsault was atrocious, but that didn't bother me because the way he did it looked as though he knew he couldn't do it, but was prepared to do anything by that point. What brings the match down for me is the way they went about the near falls towards the end. The fact that there were a lot of them didn't bother me because it worked in the context of the match, but they weren't believable. I never thought Punk was losing to the first AA and I never thought Cena was losing to the first GTS etc. Rock Bottom was fucking awesome though, and Punk's face after he hit it was amazing. There were also parts you could clearly see them talking to eachother and working out what to do next and that really took me out of it a bit towards the end. When Cena put Punk up top I knew something stupid was going to happen, and yeah, that finish was just weird because when has Cena ever attempted a normal German before let alone a middle rope one. Just seemed unbelievable that Cena would do that for some reason. Punk's reaction to hearing the decision had been reversed and he still had the belt was pure gold though. What a smarmy little dick. Seriously thought Punk was BITW material in this tbh with his character work and little things he'd do like really sell the leg after the STF. How many people do that? I can't think of any, but Punk does it and it's what makes me like him so much. Cena was great too though, being worked over he's great here. Annoyed me when he popped up straight after a GTS (I think) and went for the AA but that's to be expected form his character. So yeah, I adored a lot of this tbh, but the last run kind of just felt flat to me. Still, what came before was legit MOTY material imo, and I can't really ignore that. It's not like I even thought it was that bad in the home run, just kind of zoned out of it and I really want to re-watch it. It definitely felt 'epic' and had a huge feel to it, something that only these two guys could do with the current roster imo.

But yeah, I'd need to watch it again to put a rating on it. Think it was Cal that said it isn't what he expected from them and I felt the same way. There's also so much that I could write about this match. Ton's of brilliant stuff happened in the match that I didn't even mention in my review.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Also don't really see why Cena countering the GTS into the STF is necessarily apart of 'finisher abuse'. If countering submissions counts as abusing your finisher then Benoit had umpteen 'spam finisher' matches. Now I don't believe for a second that to be the best analogy, but you get my drift. To pick at both guys managing to counter the other's best submission at crucial moments seems a little odd imo, I can't argue with people arguing the kickouts were too much if that's their view, but I can't see how 2 counters can be used as an example of finisher whoring: surely spamming a submission finisher would involve the wrestler using it for a considerable amount of time and on a regular basis instead?


You're over-analyzing it. I just brought it up for the sake of it. As you said, the reason the finisher-fest brought it down was because of how badly placed they were. One right after another after another and so on and the person taking it kicks out like any regular mid-match move (DDT etc). At MITB, the overuse of finishers was not a problem because they were spaced out perfectly and came at the right time. Last night, they went all out with it instead.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> You're over-analyzing it. I just brought it up for the sake of it. As you said, the reason the finisher-fest brought it down was because of how badly placed they were. One right after another after another and so on and the person taking it kicks out like any regular mid-match move (DDT etc). At MITB, the overuse of finishers was not a problem because they were spaced out perfectly and came at the right time. Last night, they went all out with it instead.


Whats your star rating for Taker V HHH at WM 27?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> Whats your star rating for Taker V HHH at WM 27?


Not really sure about it, but I think I'd put it on ***3/4. Same problem there. HHH just keeps performing finisher after finisher and Undertaker kicks out. Now their WM28 match was different because even though they still overused finishers, it was spread out and they were telling an amazing story with it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Worst case I've ever seen of finisher abuse in WWE is Trips/HBK HIAC.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

THREE PEDIGREES~!~!

I like that match, though


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm going to soon reach Bad Blood 04 so I'll finally get around to watch that HIAC match. I just gotta finish Judgment Day which I gotta say, I'm not excited about at all. Smackdown 04 is like Raw 03 in the first half of the year.... just boring. Whereas Raw 04 is even better than Smackdown 03, providing entertainment for it's whole duration with every weekly episode. For JD, Eddie/JBL is interesting specially with all the blood, Taker/Booker has potential in-ring and the only other match with any real build-up is Cena/Dupree which I'm not expecting much from as Cena's match quality has regressed since turning face. The rest are usual filler with lots of tag team matches which I really don't care about.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I miss Rene Dupree. Think he had great potential.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm going to soon reach Bad Blood 04 so I'll finally get around to watch that HIAC match. I just gotta finish Judgment Day which I gotta say, I'm not excited about at all. Smackdown 04 is like Raw 03 in the first half of the year.... just boring. Whereas Raw 04 is even better than Smackdown 03, providing entertainment for it's whole duration with every weekly episode. For JD, Eddie/JBL is interesting specially with all the blood, Taker/Booker has potential in-ring and the only other match with any real build-up is Cena/Dupree which I'm not expecting much from as Cena's match quality has regressed since turning face. The rest are usual filler with lots of tag team matches which I really don't care about.



Oh God, the Smackdown brand-only PPVs in 2004 were terrible


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Since we are discussing finisher kick-outs, what do you guys think is the best kick-out moment ever? Michaels kicking out of the Tombstone at WM25 and Taker kicking out of the Tombstone at WM27 have to be up there with the greatest.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker's face when Michaels kicks out makes it even better.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Michaels at WM 25 was incredible. Rock refusing to go down at WM 17 maybe. Punk kicking out of an AA @ MITB iirc was awesome.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Fatal-4-Way - **3/4*. Never really gelled, Sin Cara had the worst awareness and awkward selling I've ever seen. Randomly walking around outside the ring unhurt and at one stage clutched his stomach, then 5 seconds later fell to the canvas and rolled out the ring.

Tag Team - ***1/2*. Fine as a match, but it was more about the interaction between Kane & Bryan. Backstage segment was awesome.

Cesaro/Ryder - ****. 

Ziggler/Orton - *****. May be worth more but I couldn't get invested into the match. Every time I heard Vickie Guerrero I zoned out entirely (which was A LOT).

Divas - **3/4*. More than adequate for them.

Sheamus/Del Rio - ***3/4*. It probably deserves more but I didn't care, especially when the Brogue Kick got re-instated. Sheamus' quick recoveries from prolonged submissions are tiresome.

Cena/Punk - ******. I agree with most of the comments on the ending and the spam finishers. The only false finish I actually believed was the Rock Bottom. But they have great chemistry and the crowd is always heavily into it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

At this point I'm about ready to call Cara one of the worst in ring wrestlers I've ever seen in a WWE ring. Forget for a minute about the likes of Khali and other guys whose gimmick/physique limited whatever ability they might have had, is there anyone worse than Cara in recent memory who wasn't hindered by some genetic/physical defect?

His offence is hilariously bad in terms of looking overly choreographed due to the slow speed he takes in executing it and everything feels like a video game with how haphazard and random it is. You really can't predict what he'll do next and its not in a good way like some crazed lunatic in a hardcore setting, it just comes off like the dude really has no sense of rhythm or what to do next and just looks completely lost. His actual offence in execution may actually be worse than Kofi Kingston's as well, which is shocking considering how dogshit and tame Kofi's offence is 99% of the time.

Then the awkward bumping...holy hell is that bad. He can't be overly expressive with the design of the mask but my god he's the anti Mysterio/Bourne in terms of conveying sympathy through his bumping. It looks so languid and lethargic and every bit of offence his opponent hits on him looks tamefully weak and removes any shread of investment you can have in his matches. Cody and Miz's offence everytime they touched him looked pathetically weak compared to anytime Mysterio was on the receiving end.

Christ at this point they should just scrap the gimmick and find a new guy and try and work a similar heir to Mysterio gimmick only with someone capable of bumping in a manner which can draw the crowd in as well as having a sense of timing on their big spots. Such a shame Bourne appears to be calamity mentally because he'd be perfect with/without a mask in terms of eating a gigantic beating, selling his arse off and working around hope spots and his comeback. Dude has looked the closest thing we'll get to a new Mysterio when he's been in a prominent singles role but he appears to be injury ridden and with Kendrick/London backstage issues.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Clique said:


> Since we are discussing finisher kick-outs, what do you guys think is the best kick-out moment ever? Michaels kicking out of the Tombstone at WM25 and Taker kicking out of the Tombstone at WM27 have to be up there with the greatest.


Gotta be HBK at 25. That kickout made me believe that HBK might win it!....... Sort of .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Cara/Mysterio interaction really put a damper on my expectations for the eventual match between the two. I'm hoping it was just a case of them not wanting to really do much of anything on purpose so they could save everything for their WM match.

That being said, Cara is pretty fucking terrible.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

In the NOC thread, I called Cara the fake boob of the wrestling industry. I don't really know what I meant by it, but I stand by it ne'ertheless.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd say he's worse than Hitler but at least Hitler could engage and capture the imagination of the crowd :side:


Above is obvious hyperbole but I saw this comparison made with Davey Richards once and I've been dying to put my own spin on it ever since.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Judgment Day 2004:*

Rey Mysterio/RVD vs Dudley Boyz - **1/2 (Generic tag team match. Meh. Next!)
Torrie Wilson vs Dawn Marie - ********** (The highlight of the night next to Eddie's excessive bleeding is by far Torrie exposing Dawn Marie's ass!)
Mordecai vs Scotty 2 Hotty - 1/2* (Squash match. Next!)
Charlie Haas/Rico vs Hardcore Holly/Billy Gunn - ** (Yawn.)
Chavo Guerrero vs Jacqueline - * (This is what they have Chavo doing?)
John Cena vs René Duprée - *** (Just a decent undercard match with some good work by both guys.)
Undertaker vs Booker T - **1/2 (Something feels off here. Maybe they don't have the chemistry or something but this match was rather dull. Damn you Lesnar for leaving!)
Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - **** (Pretty good match with a lot of back-and-forth although there's a bit too much time spent outside the ring. The highlight is obviously when JBL fucks Eddie up with that chair shot followed by the botched blading. Still, Eddie continued to perform like he hadn't lost a step for a lot longer than he should have. The DQ finish was stupid but I give Eddie props for how long he carried on despite the fact that he could have passed out any minute from the amount of blood loss.)

*Overall:* ** out of ***** (Pretty bad PPV to be honest, even worse than 2003. A good main event and a decent US Title match whereas everything else is filler or just plain uninteresting.)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That main event is probably at worst in my top 15 matches the company has ever put on. Feels right out of Memphis/Mid South circa 1985. Not sure how the DQ finish was bad, Eddie couldn't lose after all JBL had put him through and JBL couldn't afford to lose after everything he'd inflicted on Eddie as well as how new he was into the main event scene. DQ finish allowed Eddie's growing hatred for JBL's continued existence to be shown and for JBL to get a beating he'd warranted throughout the build to the match, as well as having a valid claim for a rematch with Eddie getting DQ'd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> That main event is probably at worst in my top 15 matches the company has ever put on. Feels right out of Memphis/Mid South circa 1985. Not sure how the DQ finish was bad, Eddie couldn't lose after all JBL had put him through and JBL couldn't afford to lose after everything he'd inflicted on Eddie as well as how new he was into the main event scene. DQ finish allowed Eddie's growing hatred for JBL's continued existence to be shown and for JBL to get a beating he'd warranted throughout the build to the match, as well as having a valid claim for a rematch with Eddie getting DQ'd.


You make a good point, I just thought that since Eddie was going to lose at the next PPV, he might have as well gotten a victory here, specially in his traditional way to keep JBL from looking weak after having just been built up as the new top heel with Lesnar gone.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I can see why you'd think that, but to me they had to find a way of keeping the feud alive for the Bullrope match and therefore JBL couldn't afford to lose under any circumstances, especially as he was a fresh face in the main event and desperately needed to be booked in a way that made people forget about his midcard APA days.

It came off as Eddie wanting to murder JBL and beat the living piss out of him, though JBL had a valid claim that maybe Eddie did it deliberately to save his championship. To me they couldn't have booked it better in terms of giving both guys reason to want to continue the feud as well as raising the stakes with JBL having clearly gotten to Eddie and made the feud extremely personal.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Eddie V JBL Judgment Day 2004 ****1/2. One of the most underrated matches in WWE history.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On second thought, I'm bumping it to ****. It was not just drama, the in-ring action itself was pretty good and above the usual JBL standards.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mysterio/Cara stuff wasn't good at all, but I didn't expect anything from it. I hope they don't match them up. Rey needs to stay the fuck away from Sin Cara as he obviously doesn't have that much longer a career left and shouldn't be wasted on shit.

Eddie/JBL is ridiculous. Good contender for top five WWE of the decade. If not it's definitely in the top 10; easily the best WWE match of 2004.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I'm curious as to your top 10 WWE matches of the last decade ?

Also, anybody else find it strange that we're talking about Rey-Rey on page 619 ?  As a tribute to the underappreciated legend of the ring (and potentially the most consistent of all time) , I'ma throw out my top 4 Rey singles matches complete with STARZ! 

1. vs Eddie Guerrero HH 97 : ****** (3rd greatest match in WCW history IMO)* 
2. vs Eddie Guerrero SD 05 : ***** 1/2 (one of the greatest TV matches ever)*
3. vs Chris Jericho BASH 09 : ***** 1/2*
4. vs Eddie Guerrero JD 05 : ***** 1/4*

Why four ? I couldn't decide on five..... Rey and Eddie just had freaky chemistry. They'd be in my top 10 all time fr best chemistry, that's for sure. Even though they produced this...

Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero WM XXI : *** 1/2* .... One of the worst matches I've seen from both men.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

*WWE Night of Champions 2012*

WWE United States Championship: The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Sin Cara - **
Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2
World Heavyweight Championship: Sheamus vs. Alberto Del Rio - **3/4
WWE Championship: CM Punk vs. John Cena - ****1/4

Punk/Cena was as expected, an excellent match. The chemistry is unbelievable. Like many, not a big fan of the countless kickouts at the end of the match, but you know what, it worked. I was on the edge of my fucking seat. Didn't like the swerve, but it made sense to further the angle. Only thing I didn't like was Cena running around after he "won" as if he didn't just get GTS'd twice and went through a bitch of a main event wrestling match. But nothing to lose sleep over, great stuff from both guys as expected. Just slightly below their Summerslam 2011 match. I rank their series:

1. Money in the Bank 2011 - *****
2. Summerslam 2011 - ****1/2
3. Night of Champions 2012 - ****1/4
4. WWE RAW 8/22/11 - ****
5. WWE RAW 1000 - **3/4

My MOTY list thus far:

1. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: Undertaker vs. Triple H_ - ****1/2
2. _Over the Limit 2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****1/2
3. _Night of Champions 2012: John Cena vs. CM Punk_ - ****1/4
4. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
5. _Extreme Rules 2012: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
6. _Extreme Rules 2012: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****
7. _WWE RAW 4/2/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ****
8. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: John Cena vs. The Rock_ - ***3/4
9. _Money in the Bank 2012: Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4_
10. _Over the Limit 2012: Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio_ - ***3/4


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Yeah, I'm curious as to your top 10 WWE matches of the last decade ?
> 
> Also, anybody else find it strange that we're talking about Rey-Rey on page 619 ?  As a tribute to the underappreciated legend of the ring (and potentially the most consistent of all time) , I'ma throw out my top 4 Rey singles matches complete with STARZ!
> 
> ...




S'wrong with that match?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Watched Wrestling with Shadows on Netflix again, still really good. Sad how things turned out though when Julie told HHH that "what goes around comes around" and HHH turned out to be one of the GOATS. I guess Shawn got fucked with his back, but even then he came back and became top 5 in most peoples lists and usually higher than Bret.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Yeah, I'm curious as to your top 10 WWE matches of the last decade ?


I meant decade as in 2000-2009, but if you add 2010-2012 I'm even sure the list would change. ennehways~

1. Benoit/Finlay JD 06
2. Rey/Eddie 6/23/05
3. Rock/Austin WM17


I'm positive I'll keep that as the top three. *Maybe* not in that exact order, but I've wactched all three semi-recently and feel comfortable with that.

Eddie/JBL JD04
Cena/Umaga RR07
HHH/Jack RR00

No idea what order. I've watched RR00 and JD04 this year and am still not on a decision. Despite the fact I've watched each like a million times each, I'd have to do it again. Hell.......I'm not sure they'd even be the next three. But I'll say so for now. That's six:

Benoit/Austin 5/31/01

Not sure this is as good as those^ three, but I'd put it ahead of anything else from memory. So it's #7 for now. 

HHH/Jericho FL00
Powertrip/Vanilla Midgets 5/21/01
Lesnar/Taker NM02
Rey/Orton 4/7/06
Benoit/Finlay 5/5/06
Benoit/Regal NM06
Michaels/Taker WM25

I haven't seen most of these in over a year, but I imagine the last three spots would be taken by three of these matches. There's a few there I don't have 1000% faith in to hold up as really great, but I'll go by my last watch, whenever that was.


But yeah, I guess the point is Eddie/JBL is definitely top ten.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Eddie vs JBL at Jugdment Day 2004 is a Top 5 WWE match ever in my opinion, a perfect violent brawl with a lot of hate, blood and drama. 

Eddie/Rey 23/6 is for me the best match WWE has ever put on and my second favourite match of all time just behind Lawler/Dundee. Also the Benoit/Austin match is not the best but one of the funniest match I've ever seen in a WWE ring.

My WWF/E top 10 would be something like this:

1. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - WWE SmackDown 23/6/05
2. Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWF Wrestlemania XIII
3. Sgt Slaughter vs The Iron Sheik - WWF 16/6/1984
4. Chris Benoit vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWE SmackDown 31/5/01
5. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - WWE Judgment Day 2004
6. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - WWF Bad Blood 1997
7. Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit - WWE Judgment Day 2006
8. John Cena vs CM Punk - WWE Money in the Bank 2011
9. Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat - WWF Wrestlemania III
10. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - WWE Summerslam 2001

Maybe I would put Lesnar/Cena on it. I think with time people will consider it as a better match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Eddie/JBL JD04 is fucking awesome. It wouldn't be in my top 10 WWE matches, but might be in top 20. ****1/2. I need to re-watch it. It's been awhile.

Top 10:

1) Benoit/Angle RR03
2) Austin/Bret WM13
3) Undertaker/HBK BB97
4) Undertaker/HBK WM25
5) Undertaker/Angle NWO06
6) Austin/Bret SVS96
7) Foley/HHH RR00
8) Bret/Owen WM10
9) Punk/Bryan OTL 2012
10) Rock/Austin WM17

Actually I think that's also all the matches I have at *****.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not sure any match of the 2000s would make my top ten for WWE, but I'd have to re-watch the best of the 80s and 90s to say for sure. Benoit/Finlay might make it and Eddie/Rey has a bit of a shot (it is probably my favourite match in the history of wrestling though- worldwide), anything other than that seems like a stretch.


----------



## geraldinhio (Feb 5, 2010)

Am I the only one who doesn't rate Benoit/Angle from the Rumble? I don't know , I'm not a massive Angle fan but I can name a lot more matches from both that I rate higher. 

On the topic of JBL/Eddie it's one of my favourite Eddie matches ever and that's saying a lot. JBL was such an underrated worker. I wish he was a singles wrestler for a lot longer. He's everything Bobby Roode wishes he was. So simple but yet so effective. I;m gonna rewatch the Eddie/Rey tv match because it's been ages since I've seen it.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Is the "Timeline: History of the WWE as told by ______________" series good? If so, which one is the best and which should I skip? Thanks


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ether said:


> Is the "Timeline: History of the WWE as told by ______________" series good? If so, which one is the best and which should I skip? Thanks


Yes, its a great series and they are all at least good. 1997 with Cornette is probably the best so far.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Surprised at all the love Benoit/Finaly JD06 is getting around here. And speaking of Regal/Benoit, has anyone seen their match in Velocity in 2005? I think it's better than the No Mercy 06 one although Josh Matthews sounded awful when it came to commentating back then. But he can call the moves correctly, so that's something.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their velocity match is excellent. #22 on my top 100 WWF/E matches ever list. No Mercy was... #47 I think. 

Eddie/JBL JD is incredible. #15 on my list. Benoit/Finlay JD was #20.

Shame Eddie and Finlay never really did anything together. I recall a short match on Nitro in 98 and that's about it. Man, if only Eddie didn't die in 05 . SD 06 was incredible to begin with... but if Eddie was there too? Eddie/Regal, Eddie/Finlay, Eddie/Henry, Eddie/UNDERTAKER, Eddie/Kennedy (during the brief year period where Kennedy was good), Eddie/Benoit... FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Listings for the new NWO set:



> Stars Align
> 
> Free Agents
> 
> ...


Bunch of really shitty matches and whatnot, but hey, the NWO were mostly shitty workers so its to be expected. I'll just download the doc when it comes out.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yep, NWO set looks like shit. Will say the Legens of Wrestling roundtable is a pretty cool inclusion in the blu ray extras though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, didn't even notice that on there. Might buy a bluray copy from Platt for that .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Whey fucking hey - they are least recognising Sting's massive involvment in the fued, although it'll be "Yeah Sting was great for us"

Massive shame for me that the Roundtable is blu ray only, although I did DL it anyways so its no biggie I suppose, I just hope the doc has involvment from everyone involved, otherwise what's the point tbh.

I agree about the matchs Cal, not much to shout about which we knew anyways,

I may just wait for a sale or sumet tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Hogan or Bischoff for the doc, and likely no Hall either, leaving just Nash, Show and Waltman as the big(ish) names. Maybe DiBiase too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wish they could have at least put the Roundtable doc on the DVD tbh, I mean its a pretty important aspect, I suppose it depends on what the main doc is like and what more is actually revealed from.Nash and co.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just get a Bluray player and stop complaining!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lol, god know when I'll ever make the jump!! Glad I did DL the doc anyways so I'll shut up about it now, wonder if the full match with intros will be on the Hostile Takeover match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TBF I probably wouldn't be able to play Blurays still if I didn't buy a PS3 at the start of the year . Funny thing is, I currently have a PS2 and NES set up while my PS3 is gathering some dust .

Vince Russo booking the Invasion Angle is out today from KC :mark:. Can't wait for either a download or for someone to get it on disc to sell (whichever comes first, though I'll be wanting it on disc anyway, but downloading it might be quicker to watch it first).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I would have probably had Blu-Ray myself if Microsoft didn't go for the HD-DVD format route and thus never so far included it on the 360, oh and I still play my original Mega Drive as much sometimes tbh lol,

Is that Russo DVD a real concept, I mean did he write an angle too (or is it like a shoot).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucking database error deleting my first reply. Anywho...

You never seen the Guest Booker series? The guests come up with real concepts for an angle in the past and present it on camera. Jim Cornette has already done the Invasion angle so I can't wait to see Russo's attempt at ot.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Fucking database error deleting my first reply. Anywho...
> 
> You never seen the Guest Booker series? The guests come up with real concepts for an angle in the past and present it on camera. Jim Cornette has already done the Invasion angle so I can't wait to see Russo's attempt at ot.


Na mate never heard of it lol, id like to see Russo's attempt at the Invasion, a subject that always fascinates me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Na mate never heard of it lol, id like to see Russo's attempt at the Invasion, a subject that always fascinates me.


Dude, get watching them!

Cornette books Invasion and Sapolsky books ECW 2006 are great. A few others are really interesting too. Not seen them all myself yet. Avoid the Al Snow one. Title is "Al Snow rebooks the Attitude Era". But he doesn't.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

what are the best (may be a loose term lol) ppv's from 2009 and 2010, I've only really watched the Mania's from these years.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> TBF I probably wouldn't be able to play Blurays still if I didn't buy a PS3 at the start of the year . Funny thing is, I currently have a PS2 and NES set up while my PS3 is gathering some dust .
> 
> Vince Russo booking the Invasion Angle is out today from KC :mark:. Can't wait for either a download or for someone to get it on disc to sell (whichever comes first, though I'll be wanting it on disc anyway, but downloading it might be quicker to watch it first).


It'll be here in a week, sat up till 5:30 to order the signature edition :$


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> It'll be here in a week, sat up till 5:30 to order the signature edition :$


And I get paid in a week. Also after the Finlay timeline (seen it but want it on disc lol), and I'll probably get a few other things from you .


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

I actually felt the Cornette Invasion angle sounded a little dated for the time. And this from someone who likes Cornette>>>>> Russo. BUT I have to admit I would like to see how the guy would book it in the WWF considering he wrote for both and he created slot of the WWF gimmicks at that time so therefore he'd probably know how they'd work.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Ether said:


> Is the "Timeline: History of the WWE as told by ______________" series good? If so, which one is the best and which should I skip? Thanks


95 with Nash and 97 with Cornette are the best out so far. 2000 with Rikishi wasn't great and although 01 with Ivory was ok she was the wrong choice to do it as they missed out alot of the major stuff cos she had no involvement.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished watching Guest Booker : Jim Cornette books the Invasion angle , and all I can say is WOW. I don't know about that one, it was very entertaining but at the same time , extremely ridiculous. I Mean, a 15 match , 5 hour Wrestlemania card featuring Hogan vs Dusty , Austin vs Foley, and Rock vs Sting ? Don't know about that one... A great watch nonetheless, and if anybody could get me a link to any more of his shoots it would be greatly appreciated.

As a side note , here are my STARZ!* for the PPV that I watched last night/today (had to break it up into two viewings : *Judgment Day 2009*

CM Punk vs Umaga : *** 3/4*
Jack Swagger vs Christian : *** 3/4*
Shelton Benjamin vs John Morrison : *** 3/4*
IC Title : Rey Mysterio(c) vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/2*
WWE Title : Randy Orton(c) vs Batista : *** 1/4*
John Cena vs The Big Show : ** 1/2*
WHC : Edge(c) vs Jeff Hardy : *****

MOTN : Mysterio vs Jericho
S(hit)OTN : Cena vs Big Show (One of if not THE worst PPV match Cena has ever had)

*Overall Rating : 5/10*

Watching The GAB 07 now, MVP vs Matt Hardy delivered big ; Can't wait to see the rest of the card.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Umaga/Hardy from GAB '07 OWNS.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I do not get the hate for Vengeance 2007. Obviously the whole Benoit situation is a big downer when going back and watching it. But I feel the matches range from decent to very good and is a very solid PPV offering.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wasn't a big fan. Only match I really liked was Cade/Murdoch vs Hardyz.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Watched True Story of Wrestlemania Vol 1 with a friend just now, really enjoyable. Some flaws though (only really going in depth on Taker at the end, not going in depth of any WM21 match, no Benoit but that's expected), but still really good.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> Eddie/JBL JD04 is fucking awesome. It wouldn't be in my top 10 WWE matches, but might be in top 20. ****1/2. I need to re-watch it. It's been awhile.
> 
> Top 10:
> 
> ...


Punk/Bryan that good? Never bothered to watch OTL but I can remember everyone raving about it. Is it better than Punk/Cena at MITB?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

#Mark said:


> Punk/Bryan that good? Never bothered to watch OTL but I can remember everyone raving about it. Is it better than Punk/Cena at MITB?


Indeed it was. Both are classics, but the difference for me is when it comes down to it, I'll take an amazing wrestling match over a very well-built match that had good wrestling. Punk/Cena had everything necessary to deliver a classic going into their match at MITB and they did so, but Punk/Bryan had NOTHING going for it and they went out there and blew that match away imo. They created a (very) basic story in the ring with the nothing they had to work with, wrestled fantastically throughout and just created a damn near perfect wrestling classic. Now it's the weakest of the "wrestling" classics on my ***** list, but it still is such to me.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Can anyone suggest some good docs? Wrestling and I haven't exactly been close in recent months and I want to get back to what I used to love and usually documentaries are a good start. I've seen Austin's new one, Wrestling With Shadows, Bret's DVD, Rise And Fall of WCW, Shawn vs. Bret, Heartbreak and Triumph, and Jericho's DVD. Probably a few others but that's all that comes to mined.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Makaveli said:


> Can anyone suggest some good docs? Wrestling and I haven't exactly been close in recent months and I want to get back to what I used to love and usually documentaries are a good start. I've seen Austin's new one, Wrestling With Shadows, Bret's DVD, Rise And Fall of WCW, Shawn vs. Bret, Heartbreak and Triumph, and Jericho's DVD. Probably a few others but that's all that comes to mined.


The True Story of Wrestlemania
The Epic Journey of Dwayne the Rock Johnson
Rise and Fall of ECW
You Think You Know Me? The Story of Edge
Beyond the Mat

some great ones I've watched recently


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watching some old Rumbles since my suitemates want to watch them and I forgot how enjoyable the '05 one is. (Y)

Watching '09's right now. Pretty enjoyable stuff.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Makaveli said:


> Can anyone suggest some good docs? Wrestling and I haven't exactly been close in recent months and I want to get back to what I used to love and usually documentaries are a good start. I've seen Austin's new one, Wrestling With Shadows, Bret's DVD, Rise And Fall of WCW, Shawn vs. Bret, Heartbreak and Triumph, and Jericho's DVD. Probably a few others but that's all that comes to mined.


The Triumph and Tragedy of WCCW is ridiculously saddening. Had me interested the entire way through. Rise & Fall of ECW is an absolute must see. Best doc the 'E has ever put out.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> Watching some old Rumbles since my suitemates want to watch them and I forgot how enjoyable the '05 one is. (Y)
> 
> Watching '09's right now. Pretty enjoyable stuff.


suitemates? 

But yeah, The 2005 Royal Rumble is great, probably by most favorite in terms of participants and match quality (not winner though as that goes to Benoit's win in 2004).

You had many great/funny moments, such as Benoit and Eddie beating up the rookie Daniel Puder, they literally chopped him to death lol. All the superstars ganging up to eliminate Muhammad Hassan. Edge in general, his character was awesome at the time. HBK eliminating Angle that leads to their great feud. Funny moments from Simon Dean and The Coach. Cena/Batista both going over the top at the same time ending, leading Vince to come down to the ring in hilarious fashion and falling over while demanding for the match to be restart. Batista winning which sets up the great program with Triple H and the demise of Evolution. Great stuff. (Y)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> suitemates?
> 
> But yeah, The 2005 Royal Rumble is great, probably by most favorite in terms of participants and match quality (not winner though as that goes to Benoit's win in 2004).
> 
> You had many great/funny moments, such as Benoit and Eddie beating up the rookie Daniel Puder, they literally chopped him to death lol. All the superstars ganging up to eliminate Muhammad Hassan. Edge in general, his character was awesome at the time. HBK eliminating Angle that leads to their great feud. Funny moments from Simon Dean and The Coach. Cena/Batista both going over the top at the same time ending, leading Vince to come down to the ring in hilarious fashion and falling over while demanding for the match to be restart. Batista winning which sets up the great program with Triple H and the demise of Evolution. Great stuff. (Y)


Yeah, I live in a suite (more or less an apartment but on campus) at school with five friends.

And agreed with you there. (Y) That fucking Snitsky clothesline to London was insane too.

Anyone know if Mysterio was supposed to get eliminated when he did in the '09 one? It looks like he accidentally falls out with Knox and the announcers didn't seem to see it coming at all. Camera wasn't on it either and it looks like Knox's momentum sort of sends Rey out.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Oh I get you. I've just never heard someone say suitemates before lol.

Damn how could I forget Snitsky's clothesline to Paul London. That was one of the best eliminations ever. Apparently London got in trouble for doing that though.

I've seen highlights of the 2009 Rumble but I haven't watched the whole thing properly through to really tell. I really didn't like WWE in 2009. And wasn't that match dominated by Legacy? Boring...


----------



## Derek (Jan 24, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The Triumph and Tragedy of WCCW is ridiculously saddening.


The Independently made "Heros of World Class" which compliments that doc nicely is even sadder. They cover some things not covered by the WWE doc, and they do a lot of more in-depth interviews. Great documentary worth tracking down.

Sets I'd recommend that haven't been mentioned:
Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection (The previous Flair set had much better matches, but no doc, both are worth getting)
Eddie Guerrero: Cheating Death, Stealing Life (doc is short, but they didn't shy away from his problems and match selection is fantastic)
Brian Pillman: Loose Cannon
The Four Horseman

I haven't seen it myself, but I've heard good things about the Jake Roberts DVD.

The Punk DVD looks promising. It looks like they were able to get some footage of his indy stuff, which means they'll be able to cover his entire career pretty well.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I'd really recommend the Macho Madness set, some really great matches on it, the only downside to it is Maria and Matt Striker introducing the matches

Agree with all the others mentioned especially the new Rock set, Flair set and the Rise and Fall of ECW


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Are there any other WWE Brock Lesnar matches where he performs the 'shooting star press' apart from Mania?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I recall him doing it in a tag team match on heat when he was teaming with Shelton Benjamin as the "Minnesota Stretching Crew" and he probably did it a couple of times in OVW as well, if you can track down some of those matches.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

nWo DVD:


> DISC 1
> 
> Stars Align
> 
> ...


Looks great. I waited years for a real nWo documentary and this looks good, hopefully it's not the usual rewriting history from WWE and they can get new Hogan/Bischoff interviews. Nash is already there(Unfortunately can't see Hall but they got the 2002 interview he did). More Wolfpack/Hollywood 1998 segments would have been good but overall great content.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I recall him doing it in a tag team match on heat when he was teaming with Shelton Benjamin as the "Minnesota Stretching Crew" and he probably did it a couple of times in OVW as well, if you can track down some of those matches.


That was a dark show match. Got it on disc as a 2 disc dark show matches set .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/static-pages/announcement.html?src=twit



> After 22 years of dedicating Silver Vision exclusively to WWE, the WWE and Clear Vision Ltd will part company on the 31st December 2012. Silvervision.co.uk (owned by Clear Vision Ltd) will continue to sell WWE DVDs, Blu-rays and WWE films after this date while stocks last, but we will not be able to offer new releases for sale on our site. SummerSlam 2012 and nWo: The Revolution will be the last new WWE releases we will be producing ourselves.
> Clear Vision and its staff are saddened by this news as we have worked very hard over the years to bring the best possible service to all WWE fans and we would like to thank you all for your continued support over the years.
> Silvervision.co.uk is looking forward to a new future which will amalgamate all the products and some new programmes of its mother company, Clear Vision Ltd, on one site.
> Please be assured this will not affect your current and future orders in any way and you will continue to receive the same great service.




Wonder where we will get our new releases from now!


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Too bad.

Hopefully I'll get to import some of the missing tagged classics I wanted.

-DFG


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

*UK and Europe Fans - Silver Vision and WWE Parting ways*

WWE DVD Distributor Silver Vision have just released this statement:

"After 22 years of dedicating Silver Vision exclusively to WWE, the WWE and Clear Vision Ltd will part company on the 31st December 2012. Silvervision.co.uk (owned by Clear Vision Ltd) will continue to sell WWE DVDs, Blu-rays and WWE films after this date while stocks last, but we will not be able to offer new releases for sale on our site. SummerSlam 2012 and nWo: The Revolution will be the last new WWE releases we will be producing ourselves.

Clear Vision and its staff are saddened by this news as we have worked very hard over the years to bring the best possible service to all WWE fans and we would like to thank you all for your continued support over the years.

Silvervision.co.uk is looking forward to a new future which will amalgamate all the products and some new programmes of its mother company, Clear Vision Ltd, on one site.
Please be assured this will not affect your current and future orders in any way and you will continue to receive the same great service."

This is very sad news indeed, I remember buying my first VHS tapes of Wrestlemania 4 and 5 with birthday money when I was a child. I wonder how WWE will sell DVD's in the UK and Europe in the future.


----------



## Monday Night Raw (Aug 5, 2012)

*Re: UK Fans - Silver Vision and WWE Parting ways*

They will no doubt have something else lined up, it would make no sense otherwise.


----------



## superfudge (May 18, 2011)

*Re: UK and Europe Fans - Silver Vision and WWE Parting ways*

Damn, gonna be weird not seeing that Silvervision ident at the start of the DVDs. Fuck you, WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: UK and Europe Fans - Silver Vision and WWE Parting ways*

Fucking bollocks.

Fuck off WWE and all its stupid, retarted stupidity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, its fucking bollocks imo, fuck knows why wwe are doing this, at least they will continue to sell current stock after the 31st Dec so that's something.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hope WWE don't just decide to keep everything in house and make us use wweshop.com and charge us a fortune for shipping and then custom fees or some shit. Maybe if they did a complete overhaul of the europshop and made it, I dunno, UP TO DATE and didn't try to rip people off by charging double the prices of everywhere else, then that would be ok.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: UK and Europe Fans - Silver Vision and WWE Parting ways*

I remember getting their old A4 glossy stock list through the post, I used to look forward to getting that each month as a kid. Probably the first bits of post I ever got.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That's exactly what I was just thinking mate, they'll either sell them through wwe.com which is retarted for the reasons you said and the sales would go right down imo, or they will open a UK version of the site or overhaul the Euroshop.

Why are wwe doing this anyway, does Vince need more money, has his gas bill gone up ir something, its ridiculous.

Plus, SV have some great offers and such so we can forget all that I suppose, still loads of DVDs I want so im just gonna get some I want before the end of the year, at least SV will continue to sell older stock for a while anyway, I still want some of the anthologies lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I won the lottery I'd buy one of every DVD/Bluray on SV right now .


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I'm only really bothered because we won't get PPVs outside of WM and SS on Blu-Ray anymore. I imported all the DVD from the states anyway. I'll probably grab the tagged classics when they inevitably go on sale.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

*Re: UK and Europe Fans - Silver Vision and WWE Parting ways*

Bad news, great service. Hopefully they have a good alternative lined up.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Nooooooooo


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/exclusive-roh-footage-wwe-cm-punk-dvd/27225/

Exclusive photos of ROH in the CM Punk DVD. This is crazy, never thought I'd see it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/exclusive-roh-footage-wwe-cm-punk-dvd/27225/
> 
> Exclusive photos of ROH in the CM Punk DVD. This is crazy, never thought I'd see it.


OMFG. (Y)


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Very sad about the SilverVision news. The service they have given fans has been great. Delivery times have mostly always been top notch. Such a shame, would hate if we had to order through WWEShop.com because if it comes to that, I wont be buying them anymore.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Seeing the Wrestlerave promo on a WWE DVD is just mindblowing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Got tired of watching a lot of mediocre Puro, so I decided to pop in the Best PPV Matches of 2011 Blu Ray and rewatch some stuff that I haven't seen since the live PPV. Check it:

*World Heavyweight Championship - No Holds Barred*
Christian (c) vs. Randy Orton (_Summerslam)_

Pretty much loved this one when it first aired, but I'll admit I was a bit intoxicated so I couldn't exactly pay attention to the details of the match. This time around I still enjoyed it, but it's not quite on the MOTYC level like I thought. First off, Orton seriously needs to be a heel now. No one cares about him being a face, just let him be what he naturally is. When that guy turns it on, he fucking goes HARD. Those punches in the corner were vicious. Match had some pretty nice nearfalls with Orton's jacknife pin and Christian's Killswitch. Really liked everything about this, except the last 3 or 4 minutes. Total squash city. Loved the idea of having Orton's temper go nuts again and this time he could actually do what he wanted, but shit, Christian just got pissed on big time. Didn't really ruin the match but I can't rate it any higher because of it. I think Orton's street fight with Cody from SmackDown was little better than this one. **** 3/4*

*World Heavyweight Championship*
Randy Orton (c) vs. Mark Henry (_Night of Champions)_

On first watch on this one I thought it was pretty decent, honestly thought Henry dragged it down and putting the title on him was a TERRIBLE idea, but, this time I liked it a lot more. Liked how they Orton sorta tiptoe around him in the early going and had him play the underdog. Loved how Orton could throw everything at Henry and then with one swipe or kick from the big man, Orton would be layed out. Henry took all of Orton's offense very nicely, all the DDTs and dropkicks looked really good. What made this stand out was how dominant Henry was in the end, putting Orton away with ease it seemed. Plus that post match promo. HOLY SHIT. No joke, gave me chills. What an awesome reign he'd go on. Bring this man back immediately to feud with Cena! You know, NOC is a bit of a sleeper PPV from last year. I enjoyed this, really enjoyed Cena/Del Rio, plus there's that main event... *****

*No Disqualification*
CM Punk vs. Triple H _(Night of Champions)_

I really liked this one last year, but this time around, legit loved it. You can just feel the hatred between them for damn near the entire match. Started off hot and heavy and had this big match feel to it. The brawling was top notch and none of the spots felt played out or predictable (besides the top rope elbow, but that's always predictable). I know a lot of people didn't like the overbooking for the finish, but I really didn't have a problem with it. It added a ton of drama and entertainment to the match and gave it this attitude era feel imo. Dug this one through and through, worthy main event and probably somewhere in the top 10 for WWE's MOTYC. This was everything that Brock/Trips should've been. ******


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Well I come home from school to read about the SV situation. Makes me anxious as to how I will be getting my DVD's in 2013.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ROH stuff in a WWE DVD? Hmm looks like the theories of Vince having stake in ROH could be true. Just like how he was a stakeholder in the original ECW. I mean, it's no coincidence WWE just magically decided to promote ECW on their show back in 1997.

When you think about it these independent promotions form the backbone for WWE, so it's only obvious WWE has interest in them and it would be in the best interest of all indy promotions to try to grab as much attention as they can from the WWE.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Gutted about Silvervision, been ordering from there since 2004, and never had a pre order that didnt arrive on the day of release, a superb service from start to finish, looks like I'll be ordering a ton before it closes, also can't wait for the Punk DVD, awesome they show footage of ROH.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

LOVED Punk V HHH at NOC. Just a straight up fight until the chaotic Attitude Era like ending.


----------



## The GOAT One (Sep 17, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> LOVED Punk V HHH at NOC. Just a straight up fight until the chaotic Attitude Era like ending.


I'm still convinced :russo booked that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't like HHH/Punk. Hated HHH being apart of the "Summer of Punk" and helping to completely fuck up THE hottest angle in the longest time. Didn't think much to the match because it was mostly brawling and HHH is an extremely average brawler at best. Finish was a bunch of Russo bullshit too. Urgh.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Didn't like HHH/Punk. Hated HHH being apart of the "Summer of Punk" and helping to completely fuck up THE hottest angle in the longest time. Didn't think much to the match because it was mostly brawling and HHH is an extremely average brawler at best. Finish was a bunch of Russo bullshit too. Urgh.


I hated that Trips became the focus for some reason. God, I hated the end of that angle, still haven't forgiven Trips for that. I think NOC jumped the shark for the angle (though I didn't like the end of Summerslam either).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Can't argue the finish was overbooked but it was still fun. Started watching the 3 way Hell in a Cell and just kinda turned it off, I think after a spot where Del Rio jumped off the rop and like double stomped Cena while he was pinning Punk, idr. Not a huge fan of 3 ways to begin with and I just wasn't that interested. Not a bad match from what I saw though.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Not to deviate from actual match discussion. But the biggest problem with that angle was Punk returning so soon. The whole idea was he had taken what the company was built-around and left. They didn't play that part up very well AT ALL. Vince should have come out the next Monday with Cena still as "champion". Not even addressing it. Until Punk started causing mayhem both in-arena and out-of-arena segments. Even costing Cena his title match at SummerSlam to a massively over face. That is what people expected. They expected Punk to be gone, and randomly show up to annoy Vince. Instead they pulled the trigger on the rematch far too soon.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Watching some AE episodes of RAW, imo, HHH in late 1999/2000 is the best run for any wrestler ever (even better or just as good as Austin 1998 or Rock 2000, of course just my opinion). The dude was a fucking amazing heel.

Sidenote, I hated think the two man power trip was overrated. It was entertaining but it was so illogical and felt a bit awkward. I loved them beating up Lita, but everything else was just meh imo.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched 1997/08/04 RAW episode today. Nothing special happened. Most matches were under 5 minutes (and poor) and they announced the Patriot vs Bret Hart at the next PPV. The most interesting thing is the Undertaker/Paul Bearer storyline.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Patriot vs Bret is actually an AWESOME match, it's just that some can't get past the fact that it's well... The Patriot 

*Been wondering if anybody could flip me that top 100 WWF/WWE matches that a few of you polled in quite some time ago.* Was thinking about taking it and ranking the matches on it myself, giving it kind of a fresh take (since I've been spending hours every day watching match after match after match lol) . 

10 WWF/WWE Championship matches left to watch, but since most of them are shit it's taking me longer than expected. So I've been catalouging every single *****+* match I've ever seen, starting with the E' . It occured to me that I haven't seen a few CLASSIC TV matches, so I've been mostly watching them. Time to throw out some STARZ!*

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit FEB 04 : ******
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit MAY 04 : ***** 1/4*
Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit SD 01 : ***** 3/4*
2 Man Power Trip vs Benoit/Jericho RAW 01 : ***** 3/4*

What's next ? HHH-Benjamin , Benoit-Regal VEL , HHH-Benoit (Goldrush AND Ironman) , Evolution 8 man tag from 04 , and other MISC highly rated things I haven't seen. I'm willing to bet I've seen atleast 90 percent of the WWF/WWE matches that I would have at **** 1/4 anyways.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Patriot vs Bret is actually an AWESOME match, it's just that some can't get past the fact that it's well... The Patriot


 I shall see the match when I reach the 'In your house: Ground Zero'. I will admit, I never knew he used Kurt Angle's theme first :lol . Ah well, this is why it's important to watch old episodes (Y) . I also didn't know Rikishi had a foreign gimmick before he officially became Rikishi. 

By the way, why did the Brakus character fail? 

I'm talking about this guy >


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/HBK on May 04 is a classic TV match. At ****1/4 for me too. And Benoit/HHH Ironman is easily one of the best Ironman matches ever alongside Rock/HHH and Angle/Lesnar. Overbooked ending aside, it's definitely **** for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Been wondering if anybody could flip me that top 100 WWF/WWE matches that a few of you polled in quite some time ago.[/B] Was thinking about taking it and ranking the matches on it myself, giving it kind of a fresh take (since I've been spending hours every day watching match after match after match lol) .


List can be found here http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/wetop100wwfecomp.html .



Oliver-94 said:


> I shall see the match when I reach the 'In your house: Ground Zero'. I will admit, I never knew he used Kurt Angle's theme first :lol . Ah well, this is why it's important to watch old episodes (Y) . I also didn't know Rikishi had a foreign gimmick before he officially became Rikishi.
> 
> By the way, why did the Brakus character fail?
> 
> I'm talking about this guy >


Barely remember him, but I'm guessing he was a shit wrestler, plus didn't he lose to some nobody in the brawl for all tournament? Probably got released after that .


----------



## bboy (May 22, 2005)

KingCal said:


> http://www.silvervision.co.uk/static-pages/announcement.html?src=twit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Truly feels like it's an end of an era

I don't so order stuff from silvervision now and haven't done for a good few years but I remember in the early 90s I used to rent silvervision vhs tapes from my local video store all the time. Amazing memories and it just feels it's sad to see the link broken.

The old silvervision logo and the old school intro's to the vhs tapes are great memories, very sad.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Does anyone have a link for Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - LLT 30/12/1985?, I'm doing a review for a wrestling page and I need the link of the match, the vimeo link has expired and there is a Dailymotion link but it's bad quality. It's a shame that I can't watch my favourite match ever in a good quality.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat at Chi-town Rumble. Great match which had almost everything; great psychology, Reversals, technical wrestling, nearfalls and etc. I will probably watch their match at Wrestle War. Apprantly, that's their best match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jimix said:


> Does anyone have a link for Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - LLT 30/12/1985?, I'm doing a review for a wrestling page and I need the link of the match, the vimeo link has expired and there is a Dailymotion link but it's bad quality. It's a shame that I can't watch my favourite match ever in a good quality.


There really isn't the *best* quality of a lot of this stuff anywhere. I mean I'm not a guy who gives much of a shit about video quality or HD this and Video Game Graphics that; I'll watch anything. But it is sort of a shame that some of the best matches ever recorded have this fuzzy shit everywhere while you can enjoy all this TNA footage in really great definition.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Oliver-94 said:


> By the way, why did the Brakus character fail?
> 
> I'm talking about this guy >


He got in due to Bret Hart's recommendation if I remember correctly. I don't think he wrestled more than one TV match if even. With everything so in the air in 1997 - seriously, anyone looking for history on WWF in 1997 watch Cornette's Kayfabe Commentary interview - I suppose he just got lost in the mix while they concentrated on coming up with stuff for Austin to do and filling out the undercards. I never saw Brakkus wrestle but from looking at his juiced up ass I'd hazard a guess he was crap.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Has anyone made a compilation of Benoit's bets WWF/E TV matches from 2000-2007? The Benoit v Austin/Triple H/Michaels matches weren't released on any home video release so there's lots of stuff I've not seen.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

#Mark said:


> Watching some AE episodes of RAW, imo, HHH in late 1999/2000 is the best run for any wrestler ever (even better or just as good as Austin 1998 or Rock 2000, of course just my opinion). The dude was a fucking amazing heel.
> 
> Sidenote, I hated think the two man power trip was overrated. It was entertaining but it was so illogical and felt a bit awkward. I loved them beating up Lita, but everything else was just meh imo.


The Power Trip and Austin's heel turn weren't managed very well. The Jericho/Benoit Raw tag match is fantastic.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Got tired of watching a lot of mediocre Puro, so I decided to pop in the Best PPV Matches of 2011 Blu Ray and rewatch some stuff that I haven't seen since the live PPV. Check it:
> 
> *World Heavyweight Championship - No Holds Barred*
> Christian (c) vs. Randy Orton (_Summerslam)_
> ...


Orton/Christian ****1/2
Orton/Henry didn't watch
Punk/HHH ***1/2
Brock/HHH ****1/4


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/video-paul-heyman-cm-punk-best-in-the-world-dvd/27338/

2 minute preview of Punk's time in OVW. Includes Paul Heyman and The Miz talking about Punk.

Way too stoked for this DVD.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When does that DVD come out?

edit nvm saw it was October :hb


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm going to watch some streak matches I've missed/don't remember. Question, should I bother with Mania 7, 8, 9, 11, 20, and 22?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> No.


Expected that. Should I skip any other match?

Forgot about WM15, easy skip there too


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Silvervision are putting me on edge with all the stock clearance's. I don't have the money to buy all this stuff atm!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ether said:


> Expected that. Should I skip any other match?
> 
> Forgot about WM15, easy skip there too


Only streak matches worth watching are 17, 18, 21, 23-28.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Only streak matches worth watching are 17, 18, 21, 23-28.


I was going to give 12-14 all a watch, never saw them more than once.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I thought Undertaker vs. Diesel from WrestleMania 12 was very good match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Streak matches worth watching:

12, 14, 17, 18, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28

And then you have the first one which is ok to watch if you are a big Undertaker fan and want to see the beginning of the Streak. Second one is a solid match with Jake, but far too short to be anything more. WM 13 against Sid is a good match, but its way too long. Shave 10 minutes from it and it would be remembered a hell of a lot better tbh. WM 19 handicap match is fun to watch, same with WM 22. WM 20 with Kane is cool to see for Undertaker's return alone. IMO the only real BAD matches that should never be watched are against Gonzales, Bundy and Bossman.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Eh, too predictable at a time before Taker's WM matches became predictable. Was probably better than most were expecting, but it pales in comparison to the ones I listed. Again, just my opinion.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

It does pale in comparison to the ones you mention but I think it's worth a watch.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

Just something that's been bugging me for a while, but is there a particular reason I can never seem to find WM24 on Silver Vision's site? Did they not publish it or something?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, it wouldn't be a high priority, but it's definitely not as dreadful as the ones Cal listed as extremely avoidable at all costs. If you're a Nash fan then I'd give it a go.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks guys, just saw the Sid match was 21 minutes. I'll probably watch that last. Only going to watch 12, 13, 14, 17, 18. maybe 20, 21, 23, and 24 because I pretty much remember everything else. 25 I rate ***** if only because it got me back into wrestling.

Out of left field here, but what do you all rate HBK/Angle at Mania? I thought it was **** 3/4- ***** but I haven't watched it in a few years now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RobsYourUncle said:


> Just something that's been bugging me for a while, but is there a particular reason I can never seem to find WM24 on Silver Vision's site? Did they not publish it or something?


Its out of production now, check Amazon or Ebay.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RobsYourUncle said:


> Just something that's been bugging me for a while, but is there a particular reason I can never seem to find WM24 on Silver Vision's site? Did they not publish it or something?


Last I recall it was taken off the site because of some legal issues involving Floyd Mayweather.

As for Taker/Diesel, I thought it was a pretty great big man match. I'd put it only a fraction behind the Kane match tbh.

Edit: HBK/Angle WM - ****1/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ether said:


> Out of left field here, but what do you all rate HBK/Angle at Mania? I thought it was **** 3/4- ***** but I haven't watched it in a few years now.


**** 3/4. Fantastic wrestling match and my 2005 MOTY.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/Clique on HBK/Angle. 2005 had some great matches (HBK/Benjamin Gold Rush, HBK/Angle x2, HHH/Batista HIAC, etc).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

So many great matches in 2005:

Angle/HBK WM21
HHH/Batista Vengeance
Eddie/Mysterio SD 6/23 
HBK/Shelton Gold Rush
Edge/Hardy Unforgiven 
HHH/Flair Taboo Tuesday 
MITB WM21
Taker/Orton WM21
Taker/Orton Armageddon
Angle/HBK Vengeance
Cena/JBL Judgment Day

and more


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

05 definitely gave us some great big matches. Just a shame I was completely disinterested with the product following WM until a few weeks before Survivor Series (Batista and Cena as champs really put me off the show, so much so that for the first time ever I stopped watching WWE voluntarily, and only got back into it before Survivor Series because I had tickets to a live Raw taping ).

Top 5 matches that year (off the top of my head)

Undertaker Vs Orton - Armageddon HIAC
HHH Vs Batista - Vengeance HIAC
Angle Vs HBK - Vengeance
HHH Vs Flair - Taboo Tuesday Cage
Eddie Vs Mysterio SD


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2005 is such an underrated year. It doesn't get much hate unlike 2006 but it's just there and few really talk about it and the great stuff that year.

Also WWE and their bullshit youtube account termination has left me directionless with 2004 as the account I used for the Raw/SD episodes just got terminated today. Fuck, what am I gonna do now? :sad:


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Angle Vs HBK - Vengeance


Do you have this rated higher than the Mania match? I had that at **** 1/2 but again, haven't watched in awhile.

And to answer an earlier question from KingofKings, nah I don't save my ratings. Would be fun but eh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ether said:


> Do you have this rated higher than the Mania match? I had that at **** 1/2 but again, haven't watched in awhile.
> 
> And to answer an earlier question from KingofKings, nah I don't save my ratings. Would be fun but eh.


Yep, I consider it better than their WM match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> 2005 is such an underrated year. It doesn't get much hate unlike 2006 but it's just there and few really talk about it and the great stuff that year.
> 
> Also WWE and their bullshit youtube account termination has left me directionless with 2004 as the account I used for the Raw/SD episodes just got terminated today. Fuck, what am I gonna do now? :sad:


 Damn. I actually bookmarked that page for future uses. :cuss:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2005 is a top 5 year in wrestling history (match quality wise) ever IMO, bar none. You had the epic HHH-Batista story arc that went from NYR 2005 to VEN 2005 in one of the greatest blowoffs of all time , two fantastic HBK-Angle matches, the greatest multiman ladder match of all time in MITB I, Rey and Eddie tearing the house down multiple times throughout the year, Flair and Hunter basically killing one another in 2 big time PPV matches, the rise of John Cena, the great RAW-Smackdown feud, the edge-hardy situation, and my pick for feud of the year and one of the greatest feuds in the ruthless aggression era ; The Undertaker vs Randy Orton. I mean , DAMN , that's not even touching the surface as to how great this year was , a fantastic time to be a wrestling fan for sure. For TV matches we had the EPIC Rey-Eddie match, the first round of the gold rush tournament (a top 5 episode of raw ever IMO, two **** matches in one night is insane for a TV show) , the edge-Kane specialty matches, Taker-Orton , Taker-JBL streetfight, JBL-Angle LMS, and a whole fuckload of other awesome TV matches. My favorite year in wrestling ever, bar none. Speaking of Taker-Orton, I loved how the feud was basically a culmination of Ortons entire legend killer character, easily his best feud, and one of takers greatest feuds ever (which is saying ALOT) . I'll go more in depth about this later, writing this in the middle of a 3 hour drive on my IPhone , anybody know how to break things up into paragraphs on this thing ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shiiiit, forgot about the NYR EC. Might change my top 5 list to this:

Undertaker Vs Orton - Armageddon HIAC
HHH Vs Batista - Vengeance HIAC
HHH Vs Batista Vs Orton Vs Jericho Vs Benoit Vs Edge - New Years Revolution Elimination Chamber
HHH Vs Flair - Taboo Tuesday Cage
Eddie Vs Mysterio SD


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I forgot about the Chamber match, too. That's actually one of my favorite matches ever. TEN TIMES THE KING~!

The entire storyline building to Batista/H was so well crafted. Don't see stuff like that anymore.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Top Five PPV Matches Of 05...

1. HBK v Kurt Angle (WM) = ****3/4
2. Batista v HHH (Vengeance) = ****1/2
3. NYR EC Match = ****1/2
4. Royal Rumble Match = ****1/2
5. Edge v Matt Hardy (Unforgiven) = ****1/4

And so much more at **** to ****1/4.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My top 5 from 05 would probably be:

HBK/Angle Vengeance - ****3/4
HBK/Angle WM - ****3/4
HHH/Batista HIAC - ****1/2
NYR Chamber - ****1/4
HHH/Flair TT Cage - ****1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really got some catching up to do with 2005. Seen a fair amount of matches but a lot of stuff like any Eddie/Rey match (excluding WM21 & SS), Flair/HHH (don't know the results and don't want them spoiled but I guess HHH wins anyways) and more. 2005 should have been the point where I started watching wrestling because it was all there for me but I was uninterested and regret it now.

Top 5 matches that I've seen:

Batista/HHH (Vengeance) - ****1/2
Cena/JBL (Judgment Day) - ****1/2
Elimination Chamber (New Year's Revolution) - ****1/2
Undertaker/Orton (Armageddon) - ****1/4
HBK/Angle (Wrestlemania 21) - ****1/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Benoit and Eddie even had an underrated match on Smackdown in July 05 that doesn't get talked about much.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Streak

HBK 1 *****
HBK 2 **** 1/2
Edge **** 1/2
HHH 3 ****
HHH 2 *** 3/4 (ending sucked to me )
Orton *** 1/2
HHH 1 *** 1/4 (good match, but stole the show Sheamus? Really? Lol)
Flair *** 1/4 (highlights were JR/King exchanges and AA)
Batista *** (felt too much like Diesel/Taker 2)
Kane 1 *** (Again Lawler was awesome, and :lmao at Bearer stomping Taker)
Diesel ** 3/4 (Lol'd at Diesel's "I'M THE SHIT, I TOLD YA!" at the start, and Lawler's commentary was the highlight of the match)

Everything else I didn't watch, I bumped Edge and Orton up 1/4 a * because if I was watching that live I would have thought it was over after the RKO and the Spear.

Jericho vs Edge WM26 *** 1/2 (wtf'd at the ending big time)

Going to watch HBK/Cena at WM23 tomorrow


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ether said:


> Batista ***


 

At LEAST ****1/4. Joint motn for WM23.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> At LEAST ****1/4. Joint motn for WM23.


I watched it right after WM12, and it felt like I was watching the same match. "I've never seen anyone push Undertaker like I have here" "He can't be stopped!" "He's on a mission", only difference was no showboating from Batista like Diesel did. I admit, I was half paying attention to this match, I might give it another watch. But on first go, that's what it felt like.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I can see why you wouldn't be as big of a fan of Undertaker/Batista if you knew the outcome going in. I loved the matches that they had against each other. Some great heaveyweight slugfests the had together. I don't think I've ever seen them have a match that I didn't like.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

TaylorFitz said:


> I can see why you wouldn't be as big of a fan of Undertaker/Batista if you knew the outcome going in. I loved the matches that they had against each other. Some great heaveyweight slugfests the had together. I don't think I've ever seen them have a match that I didn't like.


That's probably it, the same problem with Edge and Orton. I had Edge at **** 1/4 and Orton at *** and 1/4 but it hurts both of those matches that I knew Taker was winning. I bumped up both of their ratings a 1/4 of a * because of that.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

I started watching WWE shortly before they killed off the Cruiser weight division and I haven't watch a whole lot of the cruiser matches from the past. Any links/recommendations or top 5-10s of cruiser weight matches? Preferably WWE/F not WCW.


----------



## ForestCrush (Aug 18, 2012)

You should check out Rey vs Eddie at Halloween Havoc. Its WCW, but its a great match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Girlfriend bought me a bunch of DVDs for my bday today, one of them being The Rock vs John Cena : Once in a lifetime. This documentary is a Dr. Jekyl / Mr. Hyde scenario , and what I mean by that is that while this is a great documentary with some good production value... It is a fucking TERRIBLE wrestling documentary, one of the worst I've ever seen actually. Don't exactly know what the reviewer from WWEDVDNEWS was smoking to say this was better than the Streak DVD , but damn... I'm glad I watched it, and the DVD is very, very entertaining... But it's more for the casual fan than the guy who sits down and dissects the dichotomy of a match, and what really makes it tick.

About to pop in disc 2 , going to give The Rock's two return matches another chance (especially the Wrestlemania XXVIII match). Currently ranks as my number 16 match of the year, hopefully can jump up the list but I don't have much hope, going to keep an open mind on it however :rocky

Speaking of this year and match ranking ; knocked down Punk vs Cena from NOC about a half a star, sits at **** at my number 7 spot. Completely overreacted on my first watch and looked past the matches flaws. Still a HEll of a ride, but doesn't even touch their first 2 PPV encounters. Please Rock and Cena... Make me find some enjoyment in your match so that I can look forward to next year :cena


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*No Way Out 2004, Lesnar vs. Eddie - ****1/4*

The stomach/rib work from Brock and the leg work from Eddie were both awesome sauce in this match, particularly Eddie's leg work where for a brief spell he was just relentless in pulling out submission after submission to try to get the win. That was great. Favorite moment of the match was Eddie's twisting reversal into the STF where he just folded Brock the fuck up. Shits all over Cena's STF by a country mile lol. The crowd felt a bit flat to me though and the people in the front row looked bored as fuck during certain points. Goldberg coming out certainly woke them up and from that point on the place was buzzing. Great win for Eddie and Brock looks somewhat strong in defeat. Kudos to Cole on commentary too btw. Great match. 

Mania XX up next.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

If you want to talk about some of Undertakers Mania matches prior to Mania 23ish then you gotta look at the Kane match at XIV. Kane was booked as such a monster, and was really over as such. They did a really good job of making him untouchable, even physically dominating the Undertaker in the build-up. The match was fine. But what makes it great is the culmination of the entire feud, Undertaker finally agreeing to fight his brother. Something we've been waiting for since the Hell in a Cell match in, what, Novemberish? Great build, cool match, fun wrestling.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Streak

HBK 1 *****
HBK 2 ****1/2
Edge ****1/4
HHH 3 ****
HHH 2 ***1/2
Orton ****1/4
HHH 1 ****
Flair ****
Batista ****1/2
Kane 1 ****
Diesel ***



Top 5 2005:
1) Angle/HBK WM25
2) Batista/HHH HIAC
3) HBK/Benjamin Raw Gold Rush Quarter Finals
4) Edge/Hardy Unforgiven
5) Undertaker/Orton WM21


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KidCharlamagne said:


> If you want to talk about some of Undertakers Mania matches prior to Mania 23ish then you gotta look at the Kane match at XIV. Kane was booked as such a monster, and was really over as such. They did a really good job of making him untouchable, even physically dominating the Undertaker in the build-up. The match was fine. But what makes it great is the culmination of the entire feud, Undertaker finally agreeing to fight his brother. Something we've been waiting for since the Hell in a Cell match in, what, Novemberish? Great build, cool match, fun wrestling.


That or Orton at 21 might've been his best before 23.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Could someone kindly give me a top ten of 2003? I want to brush up on that year, haven't seen many of those PPV's or things from that year since it happened. If ten is too much, five is fine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Likely gonna miss some stuff out, but here we go:

Benoit/Angle RR - ****1/4
Angle/Lesnar WM - ****1/4
Jericho/HBK WM - ****1/2
Austin/Rock WM - ****1/2 (imo their best match together)
HHH/Booker T WM - **** (hugely underrated and often shit on because of the finish)
Lesnar/Big Show JD - ***1/2
Eddie/Benoit Vengeance - ****
WGTT Vs Kidman & Mysterio Vengeance - ***1/2
Undertaker Vs Cena Vengeance - ***1/2
Lesnar Vs Show Vs Angle Vengeance - ***1/2
Eddie Vs Benoit Vs Tajiri Vs Rhyno SummerSlam - ***1/2
Angle Vs Lesnar SummerSlam - *****
Angle Vs Cena No Mercy - ***3/4
Undertaker Vs Lesnar No Mercy - ***1/2
Team Bischoff Vs Team Austin Survivor Series - ***3/4

And then you have some great TV matches like Angle/Lesnar Iron Man, Angle/Undertaker, Lesnar/Benoit, HBK/Jericho, HBK/HHH and probs some other stuff I'm missing out.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

What about the Elimination Chamber, how do you rank that match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only gave it ***. Its fun, but nothing much else.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember Jericho/Goldberg from Bad Blood being good. There's a pretty awesome Goldberg/Mark Henry match from Raw in 2003 as well. Is Rock/Goldberg good? Rock/Hogan II? I don't think I've seen them, but Lesnar v Rey from SD and Michaels v Jericho from Raw get some loving too. 

I wonder if the HHH/Michaels from December holds up. Or the SummerSlam four way.

Armageddon has some intriguing shit that I don't even remember even though I've watched it. I have zero recollection of Benoit/Guerrero. Henry/Booker interest me way more now than it would have years ago. They have a fun weapons match on Raw, actually.

Rey has a ton of cool stuff with Tajiri and Matt Hardy. 

This is hardly Top 5 or 10 Best Talk but w/e. HHH v Scott Steiner is your 2003 MOTY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thought all of Goldberg's matches in 03 sucked. Don't remember the Henry match. Wanna see it now though. Rock/Hogan II was terrible. It was the HHH/Steiner of Smackdown.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Goldberg/Henry- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL70uRtGMzs It's short, but fun. Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money.

Wanted to look up how long Rock/Hogan II went for and seeing the NWO 03 results reminded me I liked the Taker/Big Show match from that night. It's pretty much just 7 footers punching each other in the face.

AW shit, 2003 has those Eddie & Chavo or Tajiri v Haas & Benjamin tags. Those rule the Earth. Seems to be a lot more good shit that year than I remember seeing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the SD side of things, there be plenty of good shit both on PPV and TV. Raw lacks in any kind of quality. Most of the year is HHH killing WCW "talent".


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, there's no way in hell I could watch all the 2003 Raws without a stupid amount of fast-forwarding. 

Raw did have one or two Booker T/Goldust v Jericho/Christian tags following 2002, though. Speaking of Christian; the RVD ladder match is good. Last time I randomly bring up a 2003 match. I swear.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched that Henry/Goldberg match. Was funish. 2011 Henry Vs 1998 Goldberg is probably a "never gonna happen" dream match for me now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

On the subject of 2003, there's a damn good tag match in there somewhere on Smackdown between Mysterio/Kidman & WGTT. Kickin myself for forgetting the date (have it on tape somewhere) but it may honestly be better than their Vengeance match. I definitely know I went **** on it, if not a little higher.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> On the subject of 2003, there's a damn good tag match in there somewhere on Smackdown between Mysterio/Kidman & WGTT. Kickin myself for forgetting the date (have it on tape somewhere) but it may honestly be better than their Vengeance match. I definitely know I went **** on it, if not a little higher.


On SD they had matches on the following dates:

March 13rd 2003
August 14th 2003

The march match ended via countout, so I'm guessing the August match would be the one you are after. Plus it takes place after Vengeance.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can't stand the '03 EC. There's about 4 minutes where it's really entertaining but other than that I can't stand it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingCal said:


> On SD they had matches on the following dates:
> 
> March 13rd 2003
> *August 14th 2003*
> ...


YES! August 14th, that'd be it. I remember posting my review of it in here sometime within the last year or so and no one had seen it so I got no feedback. haha. Someone should go watch that shit, bloody good match.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Clip from Punk's DVD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For 2003, I did make a list of matches after finishing watching the whole year. Here's the TV matches list:

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Ironman) - ****1/2
Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4
HHH vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - ****
Undertaker vs John Cena - ****
Chris Benoit vs John Cena - ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs Rey Mysterio - ***3/4
RVD vs Christian (Ladder Match) - ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker vs Big Show - ***1/2
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2

PPV matches:

1. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble
2. The Rock vs Stone Cold - Wrestlemania XIX
3. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam
4. Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit - Vengeance
5. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin - Survivor Series

PPV Ranking:
1. Wrestlemania XIX
2. Survivor Series
3. SummerSlam
4. Vengeance
5. Backlash
6. No Mercy
7. Royal Rumble
8. Unforgiven
9. Armageddon
10. Judgement Day
11. No Way Out
12. Bad Blood


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

:mark: I seriously can't wait for that, nothing better than watching an evolution of a wrestler like Punk who started from nothing.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

KingCal said:


> Shiiiit, forgot about the NYR EC. Might change my top 5 list to this:
> 
> Undertaker Vs Orton - Armageddon HIAC
> HHH Vs Batista - Vengeance HIAC
> ...


What's wrong with you? You have three Hunter matches for the year? :shocked:




Yeah1993 said:


> I remember Jericho/Goldberg from Bad Blood being good. There's a pretty awesome Goldberg/Mark Henry match from Raw in 2003 as well. Is Rock/Goldberg good? Rock/Hogan II? I don't think I've seen them, but Lesnar v Rey from SD and Michaels v Jericho from Raw get some loving too.
> 
> I wonder if the HHH/Michaels from December holds up. Or the SummerSlam four way.
> 
> ...


I liked Goldberg/Jericho a lot. In fact, I found all of that Bad Blood PPV some real fun. It's not saying a lot but Jericho/Goldberg is probably Goldberg's finest WWE match.

I'm also a big fan of Hunter/Michaels from the last Raw of 2003. It's a supreme example of elementary wrestling in the WWE at its finest.


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

**SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*






This DVD looks so damn epic!


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*

I posted it up the DVD thread a minute or so ago lol. Looks awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Good to hear Bret Hart's involvment in his new DVD:

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/bret-hart-unreleased-matches-wwe-dvd-2013-confirmed/27128/

VS Randy Savage from Japan.............mmmmm.

I just hope it is an actual unreleased set, rather than a few PPV matches sneaked on there too...


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*



NearFall said:


> I posted it up the DVD thread a minute or so ago lol. Looks awesome.


Oh shit did you? Sorry bro didn't see it! But yeah this DVD will be epic for sure lol


----------



## Apex Rattlesnake (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*

Looks good


----------



## Steve Awesome (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*

I'm so eager to get my hands on a copy! Can't wait till I can watch it in it's entirety!


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*

The full DVD is going to be awesome.


----------



## jacobdaniel (Jun 20, 2011)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*

Anyone know the release date?


----------



## DXfan99 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*

Does it come out before october 30th its gonna be my birthday and that what im gonna get if it is.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: *SPOILER* A Sneak Peek at Punk's New DVD (Paul Heyman)*

As for those asking for the release dates:

North America- October 9th

Europe- October 29th



THANOS said:


> Oh shit did you? Sorry bro didn't see it! But yeah this DVD will be epic for sure lol


Wasn't meaning anything by it, no worries! Got merged anyway.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Mr Wrestlemania

Taker 1 *****
Benoit/HHH *****
Razor ***** (haven't watched in forever though)
Angle **** 3/4
Taker 2 **** 1/2
Bret **** 1/4
Jericho ****
Cena *** 3/4
Flair *** 1/2
Diesel *** 1/2
Tatanka *** 1/4
Austin *** or *** 1/4

haven't watched McMahon or El Matador.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HBK at WM:

Razor Razmon - ****
Stone Cold - ***1/2
Jericho - ****
HHH/Benoit - *****
Kurt Angle - ****1/4
Mr. McMahon - ***3/4
John Cena - ***1/2
Ric Flair - ***1/2
Undertaker I - *****
Undertaker II - ****1/2

Still have to watch most of the matches from his first run.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Might as well join in on this, starting from the WMX ladder match (don't remember the others too well):

10 vs. Ramon - *****
11 vs. Nash - ***
12 vs. Hart - ****1/4
13 vs. Austin - ***1/2
19 vs. Jericho - ****1/2
20 vs. HHH/Benoit - *****
21 vs. Angle - ****3/4
22 vs. McMahon - ***1/2
23 vs. Cena - ****1/4
24 vs. Flair - ****
25 vs. Taker - *****
26 vs. Taker - ****3/4

Guy is a machine.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

From the ones I can recall recently well. 

20 vs. HHH/Benoit - *****
21 vs. Angle - ****1/4
22 vs. McMahon - ***1/4
23 vs. Cena - ****
24 vs. Flair - ****1/2
25 vs. Taker - *****
26 vs. Taker - ****3/4

Will have to start re-watches to correctly rate the others. Always loved WrestleMania 25 over WrestleMania 26, despite the epic build to 26.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

For those interested in that 'Sevenfootmonster22' channel (dedicated to Kane) on youtube, I have just found that it has been blocked 

All because of Linda Mcmahon. I know everyone already knows this but this probably means most AE episodes will be banned soon which sucks because I have just started to watch old episodes.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK at Mania:

10 vs. Ramon - ****3/4
11 vs. Nash - N/A (Don't think I've ever seen the match/I've completely forgotten it)
12 vs. Hart - ****
13 vs. Austin - ***3/4
19 vs. Jericho - ****3/4
20 vs. HHH/Benoit - ****1/2
21 vs. Angle - ****1/2
22 vs. McMahon - **1/4
23 vs. Cena - ****
24 vs. Flair - ****
25 vs. Taker - *****
26 vs. Taker - ****1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

10 vs. Ramon - ****1/2
11 vs. Nash - ***1/2
12 vs. Hart - ***1/2
14 vs. Austin - ***3/4
19 vs. Jericho - *****
20 vs. HHH/Benoit - *****
21 vs. Angle - ****1/4
22 vs. McMahon - ****1/4
23 vs. Cena - ****1/2
24 vs. Flair - *****
25 vs. Taker - ****3/4
26 vs. Taker - *****

MOTHERFUCKING GREATEST


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

10 vs. Ramon - ****
11 vs. Nash - **1/2
12 vs. Hart - ***1/2
14 vs. Austin - ***1/2
19 vs. Jericho - ****1/2
20 vs. HHH/Benoit - *****
21 vs. Angle - ***1/2
22 vs. McMahon - ****1/4
23 vs. Cena - ****1/4
24 vs. Flair - *****
25 vs. Taker - ****1/2
26 vs. Taker - *****


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

9. Tatanka - **
10. vs. Ramon - **** 1/2
11 vs. Diesel - *** 
12 vs. Hart - **** 
14 vs. Austin - *** 3/4
19 vs. Jericho - **** 1/4
20 vs. HHH vs. Benoit - *****
21 vs. Angle - **** 3/4
22 vs. McMahon - *** 1/4
23 vs. Cena - **** 1/4
24 vs. Flair - **** 1/2
25 vs. Taker - *****
26 vs. Taker - *****




Brye said:


> MOTHERFUCKING GREATEST


:cool2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ratings for Mr WM:

WM 7 - *
WM 8 - **
WM 9 3/4*
WM 11 - 1/4*
WM 12 - ***3/4
WM 13 - ***1/4
WM 14 - ****
WM 15 - DUD
WM 17 - ****1/4
WM 18 - ****1/4
WM 19 - **3/4
WM 20 - **1/4
WM 21 - ****1/4
WM 22 - **1/2
WM 23 - ****1/2
WM 24 - ****1/2
WM 25 - *****
WM 26 - *****
WM 27 - ****3/4
WM 18 - ****3/4

And HBK @ WM:

WM 9 - **1/2
WM 10 - ****1/2
WM 11 - ***
WM 12 - ***
WM 14 - ***1/4
WM 19 - ****1/2
WM 20 - ****3/4
WM 21 - ****1/4
WM 22 - ***1/4
WM 23 - ***3/4
WM 24 - ***1/2
WM 25 - *****
WM 26 - *****


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

:lmao 

Good one Cal!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Took me too long to figure what Cal was doing there. Thought it was odd he gave the iron man ***3/4. :lmao


Googled "bret hart vs randy savage japan" after seeing the DVD link and this came up - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xftoqd_bret-hart-vs-randy-savage-wwf-title_sport

Sounds awesome.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Ooh, good find. I will have to watch that this weekend. Also, I responded to your comments in the Austin greatest matches thread.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh, seems I have that entire house show on disc. Maybe I should like, check out that match?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What's the card of the show Cal?


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Punk DVD looks brilliant. 2012 finishes strongly in terms of DVD's with Punk and the AE. Can't wait!


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Two of toughest men ever in wrestling going at it not sure how to rate the match.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Might as well join in on this, starting from the WMX ladder match (don't remember the others too well):
> 
> 10 vs. Ramon - *****
> 11 vs. Nash - ***
> ...


i rank arn anderson vs big josh ahead of all of these


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingCal said:


> Ratings for Mr WM:
> 
> WM 7 - *
> WM 8 - **
> ...


Wow man, you must love the WM 18 match so much, you just had to put it twice and raise it the second time because by the time you got to the end of the list you realized ****1/4 was just too low. Or maybe we're supposed to combine the two ratings to get the real rating, which would be *********. 

WM 12 - ***
WM 13 - **
WM 14 - ****
WM 15 - DUD
WM 17 - ****
WM 18 - ****
WM 19 - **1/4
WM 20 - **3/4
WM 21 - ****1/4
WM 22 - *3/4
WM 23 - ****1/2
WM 24 - ****1/4
WM 25 - *****
WM 26 - ****1/2
WM 27 - ***1/2
WM 28 - ****


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Guest Booker: Russo was decent. He had a strong first few weeks but it tailed off after that and I don't think he really explained how to end it well. If it was off his head like he said, good work I guess.

Cornette has really awesome ideas. Although, it would never happen and he even said this (politics, injuries, etc). Can you imagine Nash being the 3rd match out of 16? Or Triple H fighting for the IC title? Card would have been badass though, and the PPVs/shows leading up to it were great as well

Going to watch Timeline: History of the WWE 95 and 97 whenever I can find links


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Sandrone said:


> Wow man, you must love the WM 18 match so much, you just had to put it twice and raise it the second time because by the time you got to the end of the list you realized ****1/4 was just too low. Or maybe we're supposed to combine the two ratings to get the real rating, which would be *********.


Its UNDERTAKER VS FLAIR. So nice it had to be rated twice. And higher the second time .



Ether said:


> Guest Booker: Russo was decent. He had a strong first few weeks but it tailed off after that and I don't think he really explained how to end it well. If it was off his head like he said, good work I guess.
> 
> Cornette has really awesome ideas. Although, it would never happen and he even said this (politics, injuries, etc). Can you imagine Nash being the 3rd match out of 16? Or Triple H fighting for the IC title? Card would have been badass though, and the PPVs/shows leading up to it were great as well
> 
> Going to watch Timeline: History of the WWE 95 and 97 whenever I can find links


Watched the Russo Guest Booker myself a couple of nights ago. Agreed that it started out ok but then just went blargh. He really isn't a booker and he said it himself, so he has no fucking clue how to write a storyline and then actually keep it going. He writes on a week to week basis and that's it . Had to laugh at him saying that LOGIC is the most important thing when writing an angle. Shame he didn't think that in all his years of actually being employed to write wrestling TV 8*D.



Yeah1993 said:


> What's the card of the show Cal?


Rick Martel (sub. for Shawn Michaels) Vs 1-2-3 Kid
Tatanka Vs Jinsei Shinzaki
Headshrinkers Vs the Smoking Gunns 
Doink the Clown Vs Nobukazu Hirai
Bull Nakano Vs Alundra Blayze
Owen Hart Vs Masashi Aoyagi
Adam Bomb Vs Bob Backlund
The Undertaker & Genichiro Tenryu Vs Yokozuna & Bam Bam Bigelow
Bret Hart Vs Randy Savage (Savage played the heel for the match)

Seen the Undertaker tag and that's it. UNDERTAKER AND FUCKING TENRYU? Guessing that was the reason I bought it .


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

It's pretty hard to just throw months of angles on the spot. I like his ideas and it would have been huge. The start with Vince burying the nWo was great, I didn't like the idea of selling a PPV just based on a beatdown they're going to give to Shane or the fact that current WWF roster were just continue to work on their regular programs, but the storyline with Bischoff as the Mole for the nWo doing everything to destroy the company from inside and then turning and giving contracts to every guy on his WCW roster with Goldberg and Sting turning on Rock and Austin could have been brilliant, then a series of huge dream matches until the ultimate WWF vs WCW tag match to end it. He gave a tremendous version of the Invasion, if he can actually frame it into week to week booking for 8-12 months? Biggest of all time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, doing that on the spot is hard. Which is why he should have written it/made notes and shit before hand. That's what pretty much everyone else has done on Guest Booker .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Rick Martel (sub. for Shawn Michaels) Vs 1-2-3 Kid
> Tatanka Vs Jinsei Shinzaki
> Headshrinkers Vs the Smoking Gunns
> Doink the Clown Vs Nobukazu Hirai
> ...


That looks like a good show. Nakano v Blayze is one of the actually good pair-ups in US women's wrestling. Owen v Aoyagi could be awesome. Adam Bomb v Bob Backlund? Does Andy know this exists since he has a strange nostalgic hard-on for Adam Bomb? And that drunken nigg is the guy who turned me on to Backlund. Taker and Tenryu v Two Fatasses just sounds impossible to miss. Savage playing heel in the main event is cool because I wanted to see them match-up with he as heel and Bret as face since the 87 SNME match is so good with the roles reversed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wanna watch the entire show now. But I have so much other stuff I want to (and need to) watch first. So I'll likely just not watch anything. Thanks. Fucker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bob Backlund v Adam Bomb, dude. Has priority over everything else.


----------



## The GOAT One (Sep 17, 2011)

Currently watching No Way Out 2000. 

Haven't seen it in ages, couldn't remember anything other than the main event , HHH vs Foley.


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

Is Orton's dvd Evolution of Predator worth checking out? How good is the Documentary?


----------



## ForestCrush (Aug 18, 2012)

Tnmore said:


> Is Orton's dvd Evolution of Predator worth checking out? How good is the Documentary?


Its not really exciting, the matches I have seen before. I have yet to watch the documentary. I bought it for 5 bucks on sale at walmart but dont really wanna watch the doc.


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm interested in the documentary part more than the matches. If it's a kayfabe doc, then worthless.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Rick Martel (sub. for Shawn Michaels) Vs 1-2-3 Kid
> Tatanka Vs Jinsei Shinzaki
> Headshrinkers Vs the Smoking Gunns
> Doink the Clown Vs Nobukazu Hirai
> ...


What's the date on that? Looks like an awesome show.



Tnmore said:


> Is Orton's dvd Evolution of Predator worth checking out? How good is the Documentary?


If you get it, it'll just be for the matches. Really consistent all the way through besides that shit with Hogan & Dusty. LOVE the Hell in a Cel against Sheamus and I seem to like the RVD match more than others. The documentary on the other hand is shit. So boring and he says nothing of any real note that would come off as interesting. They hardly talk about his career as a wrestler, things like Rated RKO and a lot of his major feuds are never mentioned. Only part I actually enjoyed was when he was talking about being in the Marines.


----------



## ForestCrush (Aug 18, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If you get it, it'll just be for the matches. Really consistent all the way through besides that shit with Hogan & Dusty. LOVE the Hell in a Cel against Sheamus and I seem to like the RVD match more than others. The documentary on the other hand is shit. So boring and he says nothing of any real note that would come off as interesting. They hardly talk about his career as a wrestler, things like Rated RKO and a lot of his major feuds are never mentioned. Only part I actually enjoyed was when he was talking about being in the Marines.


Good thing I havent watched the documentary yet then.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What's the date on that? Looks like an awesome show.


5/7/94


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

> WWEDVDNews.com has revealed more details on the upcoming CM Punk DVD. The following list of names were interviewed for the DVD. It's interesting to note that Chris Hero's graphic on the DVD lists him as Chris Hero and not his WWE NXT persona Kassius Ohno. Here's the list:
> 
> Ace Steel
> Chez (best friend) and family
> ...


I'm pissed Vinnie Mac and Stephanie aren't on there!


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

I thought The Miz and Punk had heat backstage.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vince and Steph wouldn't associate themselves with that filth 8*D. Lol. They haven't been on a DVD release in forever though iirc so it's not that surprising. They made Trips do it instead.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I liked Cornette's guest booker but a lot of the matches were a bit off. I mean, WCW/WWF was botched because we didn't get the big stars of WCW vs. the big stars of WWF. Cornette booking Austin/Foley or Funk/Taker doesn't really alleviate that problem.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Tnmore said:


> I thought The Miz and Punk had heat backstage.


I like Punk, but he's a bit of an asshole in regards to Miz. He takes every chance he can get to bury him in non-kayfabe interviews.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Punk was allowed to pick the interviewees wasn't he? I would have liked to see Randy Orton on it, considering their past heat with each other a few years ago. Glad Miz was there. *StarBuck*'s right, Punk obviously wanted one of the brass but Vince/Stephanie haven't appeared on a DVD in ages.


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Vince and Steph wouldn't associate themselves with that filth 8*D. Lol. They haven't been on a DVD release in forever though iirc so it's not that surprising. They made Trips do it instead.


Too bad I'd like to see what Vince thought of him at the beginning, and see Stephanie refer to him as the "king of the indies" like it was rumored she said lol. Having said that I'm interested to see just how much time Hunter is afforded for his comments? I'm guessing 20-30 minutes as usual? :lol He'll probably bury Punk for the first 15-25 and throw in a back-handed compliment for good measure at the end lol.

EDIT: I'm also surprised there no MVP or Batista comments seeing as they're two of his greatest friends!


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

#Mark said:


> I like Punk, but he's a bit of an asshole in regards to Miz. He takes every chance he can get to bury him in non-kayfabe interviews.


I know. The Miz, apparently is too much of a pussy backstage to do anything about it. 

Del Rio basically says it here, calls him a little girl -


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

#Mark said:


> I liked Cornette's guest booker but a lot of the matches were a bit off. I mean, WCW/WWF was botched because we didn't get the big stars of WCW vs. the big stars of WWF. Cornette booking Austin/Foley or Funk/Taker doesn't really alleviate that problem.


Cornette's was flawed. He seemed to think he was booking 1994 WCW vs. 2001 WWF in a 1990 territory in Louisville, also I find it funny that he critisizes Russo for using worked shoots yet most of this is just that. I like Cornette.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Goddamn I can't wait for the Punk DVD. Pissed Punk/Miz/Del Rio isn't on it though. I need that match on DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a big fan of the Cornette Invasion Angle booking thingymabob, but I do agree his WM card to end it is... iffy. Some great matches I'd personally want to see (Funk/Undertaker, Austin/Foley etc), but wasn't that good in terms of WCW Vs WWF or being the big feud ender. Aside from that I like his ideas for the likes of Benoit and Regal beating the piss out of each other, Funk winning a belt out of nowhere and keeping hold of it despite Vince's attempts to take it away etc. So yeah, some flaws no doubt, but I'd prefer it infinitely over Russo's. Russo was just essentially rebooking the NWO angle and nothing much else. If he had gone into more detail with things (especially the big payoff) then it could have been better, but meh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are peoples' thoughts on the *Kevin Sullivan And The End Of WCW* and *Legends Of Wrestling: Monday Night Wars*?

My internet is shit so im very selective on what i can dl LOL.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a fan of just about any Legends of Wrestling show . Plus I think Bischoff is actually on the Monday Night Wars one so yeah, that's a huge plus. Haven't seen the End of WCW thing in a long time, but I remember not being that into it. Need to watch it again though lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cool, thanks mate, been thinking about the Monday Night Wars one for ages now, didn't realise Bisch was on it, thanks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So while I'm waiting to download the remains of 2004 and since youtube is becoming useless for wrestling with so many accounts deleted, I chose to randomly watch Survivor Series 2005 on the account that has all the SVS and Rumble matches uploaded before the inevitable most likely occurs.

*Survivor Series 2005:*

*Chris Benoit vs Booker T* - ***1/4 (Decent work by both, not their best match but the quality you come to expect from them.)
*Trish Stratus vs Melina* - **
*HHH vs Ric Flair (Last Man Standing)* - ****1/4 (Absolutely great match and I'm shocked Flair got up from 3 Pedigrees. Wow, was he bleeding like a stuck pig. I assume the first Screwdriver attack was really driven into his skull since he started to bleed heavily in an instant.)
*John Cena vs Kurt Angle* - *** (Better than first time I watched it but it's a bit too overbooked and Cena is too Superman like in here. Three referees laid out in the middle of the ring was a hilarious sight, though. And some decent wrestling when the match was in-ring based rather than dramatic.)
*Teddy Long vs Eric Bischoff* - 1/2* (What the fuck is this shit?)
*Team Smackdown vs Team Raw* - **** (Great elimination SVS style match-up. Smackdown prevails with Orton being the sole survivor for the third year in a row. Almost a throwback to the 2003 Austin/Bischoff match when Orton and HBK were the final members in the ring and Orton won half-dirty. Undertaker's return post-match was also nice.)

*Overall:* ***3/4 out of ***** (Pretty good PPV with two decent matches, two great matches and two duds. The good stuff is what you'll remember once this is finished so I give it a great score.)

Can't wait to DL Bad Blood 04 so I can rate that too.

And I really need to watch more DVDs, only seen a few and many great ones have slipped past me so far such as Austin's and the company docs. I might look into _He Who Murdered Benoit and The End of WCW_, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like the Raw vs SD elimination match from that show as well as Flair/Trips. Didn't care for Cena/Angle at all.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Tnmore said:


> Is Orton's dvd Evolution of Predator worth checking out? How good is the Documentary?


Thought it was pretty bad tbh


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked Orton's DVD. Documentary part was interesting as it discussed his personal problems and overcoming them. The match list was also good although it misses some of his best matches such as against Benoit (SummerSlam 04), Undertaker (WM21), HHH (LMS - No Mercy 07) and Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 07). I like the fact that his match with Kurt Angle at Vengeance 06 was included, though. One underrated match, that is!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm a fan of that Angle/Orton match as well, although I haven't seen it in a while.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Undertaker v Batista from 2007.

Wrestlemania - ***1/2
Backlash - ****
Cage match - ***
Cyber Sunday - ****

The Wretlemania match is damn good but I find it a little overated by some, Backlash is a great brawl and Cyber Sunday is a more improved version of Wrestlemania IMO.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Googled "bret hart vs randy savage japan" after seeing the DVD link and this came up - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xftoqd_bret-hart-vs-randy-savage-wwf-title_sport
> 
> Sounds awesome.


Just watched it. Thanks again for posting the link. I liked how Savage started out all respectful, shaking hands and playing clean until Bret kept out-wrestling him which led to Savage take the cheap shots. They guys shooting this were hilarious in broken English mocking Double J's catchphrase and McMahon's commentary lol. Control segment from Savage was standard and Bret made his signature comeback. It was nice seeing them show respect to each other after the match with a handshake and embrace. I wish they could have had a PPV match together sometime in 1993-1994. At least we have the Saturday Night's Main Event match. It's a rare treat seeing this match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Just watched it. Thanks again for posting the link. *I liked how Savage started out all respectful, shaking hands and playing clean until Bret kept out-wrestling him which led to Savage take the cheap shots.* They guys shooting this were hilarious in broken English mocking Double J's catchphrase and McMahon's commentary lol. Control segment from Savage was standard and Bret made his signature comeback. It was nice seeing them show respect to each other after the match with a handshake and embrace. I wish they could have had a PPV match together sometime in 1993-1994. At least we have the Saturday Night's Main Event match. It's a rare treat seeing this match.


I smiled like a goof reading this. I should watch it soon.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Will be watching the Invasion PPV from 2001 tonight.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Crimson 3:16™ said:


> Will be watching the Invasion PPV from 2001 tonight.


Good PPV and other than Steph and DDP's buriel the angle was great up to this point. This PPV is the peak of the angle where everything seems to be good until the end of the ME when the angle jumps the shark.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Just saw the very first three-four Raw shows again, plan on catching up on that entire year. 1993 was surprisingly good. 

Heck it's more entertaining than what was put on tv the past few months that's for sure.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Vince was on Rock's DVD back in Feb and Austin's DVD doc too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Bad Guy said:


> Just saw the very first three-four Raw shows again, plan on catching up on that entire year. 1993 was surprisingly good.
> 
> Heck it's more entertaining than what was put on tv the past few months that's for sure.


Raw 93 is a ton of fun to watch, especially if you saw it back in the day too. Random things will pop up that you totally remember and it always brought a smile to my face lol. Evil Doink ruled the fucking world back then. Why oh why did Matt Bourne have to get fired and then have the Doink character turn babyface?


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Just dug out Survivor Series 2002 again for the first time in ages.

Storm & Regal vs Goldust & Hurricane: **
6-Man Tables Match: ***
Kidman vs Noble: ***
Victoria vs Trish: ***
Lesnar vs Big Show: *** 1/2
Eddie/Chavo vs Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit: **** 1/2
Elimination Chamber: **** 3/4

Probably my favourite PPV of all time (even including Manias), just consistent from top to bottom and not a dud on the card.

Some random thoughts:
- That pop for D-Von!!
- Loved 3 minute warning as a team and it's impressive to see how much weight Jamal dropped when he became Umaga.
- Enjoyed the callback to RR 2000 with Jeff's swanton.
- Kidman's music was awesome
- Its strange to see a Diva's match getting that type of build and getting enough of a focus that it warrants a hardcore match, but Tara and Trish pulled it off really well and is one of the best Divas matches that I can remember.
- Lesnar/Show was short & sweet and showcased both guys' strengths well and didn't go on long enough for Show to drag it down. Was also a great way for them to turn Lesnar into a 'proper' face.
- Does anything else need to be said about the tag title match? Just brilliant from start to finish (I do miss "cruiserweight" Rey though...).
- I still think the original elimination chamber is still the best. All 5 guys were over (no Khali/Big Daddy V filler etc) and coupled with the sheer spectacle of the chamber and the time it was given, it is still one of my favourite matches ever.
- Will never grow tired of seeing the SCM out-of-nowhere on Jericho as he's got HHH in the walls...


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Kane-UK said:


> Some random thoughts:
> - That pop for D-Von!!


Pop for Steiner was awesome too


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

History of the World Heavyweight Championship

is it any good? I think I might go and watch it for some of the older footage that I haven't seen before that was before my time.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

KingCal said:


> Raw 93 is a ton of fun to watch, especially if you saw it back in the day too. Random things will pop up that you totally remember and it always brought a smile to my face lol. Evil Doink ruled the fucking world back then. Why oh why did Matt Bourne have to get fired and then have the Doink character turn babyface?


I'm a mark for heel Doink, sadly a lot of people just think of his joke face run, when for a few months he had a great creepy carracter and put on good matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Bad Guy said:


> History of the World Heavyweight Championship
> 
> is it any good? I think I might go and watch it for some of the older footage that I haven't seen before that was before my time.


Yes sir. The one hour documentary is very insightful, really enjoyed that. Sting/Flair is a blast and the match from like 1961 (Pat O'Connor vs. Buddy Rogers) holds up extremely well 50 years later.



Jbardo said:


> I'm a mark for heel Doink, sadly a lot of people just think of his joke face run, when for a few months he had a great creepy carracter and put on good matches.


(Y)

RAW: The Beginning - The Best of Seasons 1 & 2 should seriously be in everyone'e collection for fucking Doink alone.


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

Kane-UK said:


> Just dug out Survivor Series 2002 again for the first time in ages.
> 
> Storm & Regal vs Goldust & Hurricane: **
> 6-Man Tables Match: ***
> ...


I love that PPV. I just recently bought it off eBay. It was the best PPV of that year for me.

Also, that new CM Punk DVD has a pretty good review on WWEDVDNews. Can't wait to watch that set! (link here)


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

> Yes sir. The one hour documentary is very insightful, really enjoyed that. Sting/Flair is a blast and the match from like 1961 (Pat O'Connor vs. Buddy Rogers) holds up extremely well 50 years later.


Just finished watching it (took breaks in between) was a very good watch (Y) one of the better DVD's that came out in recent years.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> RAW: The Beginning - The Best of Seasons 1 & 2 should seriously be in everyone'e collection for fucking Doink alone.



One of the main reasons i bought the set, all his matches were good and it was a joy to watch his carracter.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk doc looks very interesting and it seems like it might explain a lot of things about him lol. I'm definitely looking forward to watching it and hopefully learning something about the man himself.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Michaels' matches at 'Mania for me:

- Tatanka ~ **
- Ramon ~ **** 1/2
- Diesel ~ ** 3/4 
- Hart ~ **** 1/4 
- Austin ~ ***
- Jericho ~ **** 1/2
- Hunter vs. Benoit ~ *****
- Angle ~ **** 3/4
- Vince ~ *** 1/4
- Cena ~ *** 3/4
- Flair ~ **** 1/2
- 'Taker ~ **** 3/4
- 'Taker - *****


----------



## Tnmore (Jul 10, 2012)

Am I the only one that thinks wrestlemania 19 match with Jericho is highly overrated? The match itself was pretty average, people are bumping the rating just because of the starpower involved imo.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Tnmore said:


> Am I the only one that thinks wrestlemania 19 match with Jericho is highly overrated? The match itself was pretty average, people are bumping the rating just because of the starpower involved imo.


Can you explain why you feel the match is overrated young man? Star power hasn't stopped people on here before.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It's a legitimately great match. Has nothing to do with the star power other than the story that goes with it.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Tnmore said:


> Am I the only one that thinks wrestlemania 19 match with Jericho is highly overrated? The match itself was pretty average, people are bumping the rating just because of the starpower involved imo.


 As someone whose favorite wrestler is Shawn Michaels, you would think that HBK facing his successor would be one of my favorite matches, but it isn't. I happen to agree that this match is incredibly over-rated, for reasons I'm not quite sure of. I didn't see the big deal back in 2003, and nor on every rewatch (and I've tried many times).

I think it's a good match, but it's not the staggering classic people make it out to be. It feels like it just kind of gets stuck in 2nd gear. The buildup was great and there's nothing overtly wrong with the match, but it just never had me jumping. To me, it's a ***3/4 match, no more.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm not too fond of HBK/Jericho @ Mania 19 myself. It's an OK match but nothing close to the classic some people consider it to be. Their stuff in 08 is much better and deserving of praise imo.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

It's a good match but not the one that stole the show or is up to the hype it's given. I honestly thought McMahon/Hogan was a lot better but, I guess it did have a much bigger story going into it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Other than Vince going off a ladder and that camera angle where he's rising above the apron covered in blood, I didn't like that match much. Story was great though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> I'm not too fond of HBK/Jericho @ Mania 19 myself. It's an OK match but nothing close to the classic some people consider it to be. Their stuff in 08 is much better and deserving of praise imo.


I'm the opposite lol. Love their 03 stuff (WM and the often forgotten Raw rematch), and think most of their 08 stuff is overrated .

Hogan/Vince was trash. Story going into it was great, actual match was shitty. One of the very few blips at an otherwise incredible event (GOAT WM and PPV IMO).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vince coming up at the side of the ring like the devil is so much fucking win. I love that lol. Rock/Austin is MOTN of that PPV though imo. Jericho/HBK was just OK.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vince with blood pouring down him as he raises up from the floor to the apron is an incredible image. Piper showing up made me mark. Other than that, the match can go fuck itself.

Rock/Austin is incredible, and I'd give it MOTN as well (gone slightly lower on HBK/Jericho on last watch but still think its great). Also think its their best match together. Wonderful story told throughout, and OMG Rock actually had a GREAT PROMO before hand as well. I mean, fuck, if ROCK impresses me with a promo then something must be good!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Vince coming up at the side of the ring like the devil is so much fucking win. I love that lol. Rock/Austin is MOTN of that PPV though imo. Jericho/HBK was just OK.












I actually let out an exasperated laugh when he did that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have Rock/Austin XIX over the X-7 one.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The Act 3 line from Rock in the promo beforehand is fucking awesome lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock/Austin 17 > Rock/Austin 19 imo. Their match at 15 is subpar compared to those by quite a bit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Rock/Austin 17 > Rock/Austin 19 imo. Their match at 15 is subpar compared to those by quite a bit.


I don't know, there's always something I find in that match that I don't find in X-7. Completely agreed on the 2nd part though.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> I have Rock/Austin XIX over the X-7 one.


Same here


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Tnmore said:


> Am I the only one that thinks wrestlemania 19 match with Jericho is highly overrated? The match itself was pretty average, people are bumping the rating just because of the starpower involved imo.


Or because they liked the match?

But yeah, I agree. It bores me to tears.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Timeline 95 was great besides a few missteps from Nash. Mr Perfect is in the Hall, and :lmao at him taking credit for the rebel character and SCSA, what the fuck? Still, really entertaining, want to see Timeline: 1997 asap


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Rock/Austin at XIX is definitely overrated in my opinion, wouldn't go higher than *** for it. Their X7 match is deserving of any five star ratings it gets, however. MOTN goes to Michaels/Jericho, though I agree people overrate it a bit and I find their work together in 08 superior. 

Michaels/Jericho - ****1/4
Angle/Lesnar - ***1/2
McMahon/Hogan - ***
Rock/Austin - ***

I don't even remember Booker/Haitch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock/Austin

WM 15 - ***
WM 17 - ****1/2
Rebellion - **3/4 (trainwreck for the most part lol)
WM XIX - ****1/2 and best of the bunch.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

What? You mean you don't remember DA PEDIGREE OF DOOM!!!!

Rock/Austin Mania X7 - *******
Rock/Austin Mania 19 - *****1/2*
Rock/Austin Mania 15 - *Meh*.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM 15 - ***3/4
WM 17 - *****
WM XIX - ****1/2


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

WM 15 - *** 1/2

BackLash - ****

WM 17 - ***** - My fav match of all time

WM 19 - **** 

Them two were so damn great together.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stone Cold/The Rock:
WM15 - ***3/4
Backlash 99 - ***1/2
WM17 - *****
WM19 - ****1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I need to watch something brutal, like a cell match or HHH/Steiner 8*D. This application I'm filling out right now is doing my fucking head in. :hhh


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^Watch Triple H/Batista @Vengeance


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm OK now. Decided to stop before I break something and come back to it in the morning lol. Cooler heads prevail. I'll save Trips/Batista for when it fucks me off again tomorrow.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Rock/Austin:

Wrestlemania 15 - ****1/2*
Backlash 1999 - ******
Wrestlemania X-7 - *****3/4*
Rebellion 2001 - ******
Wrestlemania XIX - *****1/2*

Their first Wrestlemania match was good, and from there these two just got better and better together. Phenomenal chemistry.

Hogan/Vince from Mania XIX was so much better than it has any right to be. Hogan's chair shot to Vince was sick, the legdrop was sick, Vince's demonic moment peering up from the apron was sick, and Piper returning to WWE for the first time in 7 years out of the blue was just MENTAL. I legit lost my shit when I was watching it live.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

From memory I've always placed Rock/Austin from Mania XIX as being slightly above Mania 17. Such amazing chemistry though.

Hogan/Vince had it's moments imo; Vince rising up the apron like the devil, Vinces legdrop, Roddy returning etc but overall was totally overshadowed by HBK/Jericho and Rock/Austin. I could never explain why Mania XIX drew so badly, they had a stacked roster and some great matches on paper for the event, I know they focussed too much on Vince/Hogan but it will always baffle me that the event did so poorly


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hogan/Vince was a damn good match. The crowd was on fire, Hulkster had them at the palm of his hands like always, Vince was heeling it up and there were plenty of memorable moments such as the legdrop on the announce table and Vince looking like the devil. Piper's appearance was absolutely random and I had no idea it would take place going into it. I think Vince was on the offense a bit too much, though. But I guess it was all to build up for the hulking up at the end.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

So instead of writing up the lab reports due Wednesday/Thursday mornings(fucking Quantitative Analysis) I decided to rewatch WrestleMania 28:

*WHC*:Sheamus VS Daniel Bryan(C) - DUD
*Grudge Match*:Kane VS Randy Orton - **1/2
*IC*:Big Show VS Cody Rhodes - *1/2
*Streak Match*: Triple H VS Undertaker - ****3/4
*Power Struggle*: Team Johnny VS Team Teddy - ***1/4
*WWE Title*: CM Punk(c) VS Chris Jericho - ***3/4
*Once in a Lifetime*: The Rock VS John Cena- ****1/4


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

> - WWE's upcoming Attitude Era DVD and Blu-ray release has come under fire by two Connecticut publications since the sports-entertainment organization recently scrubbed hundreds of videos from that era off YouTube and other video-sharing websites after they were used in Democratic advertisements attacking U.S. Senate hopeful Linda McMahon.
> Brian Lockhart of CTNews.com explains, "The company, still run by Linda's husband, Vince, is protective of its brand when it helps Linda's political career, but happy to profit off of those raunchier programs any other time."
> 
> Asked Monday whether the title would contain any of the squashed material and why the organization was releasing the compilation after McMahon's election, WWE spokesman Brian Flinn told Don Michak of JournalInquirer.com he needed more time to respond. Flinn, however, noted to Lockhart that the title will be rated PG and consistent with how the company has marketed itself in recent years.
> ...


Fuck off, Linda


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Linda is killing the business.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fucking hell, what the fuck is the point of releasing it then lol.

One off my list to get by the looks of it...


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I remember the good old days when Linda McMahon would show up on RAW and you knew that shit was going to get crazy because she was usually coming out to make a big announcement that sent everybody crazy. 

For example - 
Announcing Austin as the CEO of the company in 1999
Announcing Mick Foley's return for one night only in the main event of Wrestlemania 2000
Announcing Austin being in Rock's corner at Backlash 2000.

Now she's just a pain in the arse.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ok, I'll say it. Attitude Era was/is likely to suck anyway. Probably featuring far too much from 98/99 and the same old shit we see on so many DVD's already. Stunner to Vince. Mr Socko. Beer Bath. This is your life. Yawn. Fill it will a bunch of stuff from 00/01 and I'll be happy.

Plus its not having a doc so yeah, matches and segments we've seen a million times most likely. Linda isn't killing this DVD, the obsession with the same old shit is gonna kill it. And also make it one of the highest selling DVD's ever probably.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

When I was a kid I used to hate it when Linda would show up back in the AE because it usually meant she was coming to screw HHH over lol. I mark raged.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> When I was a kid I used to hate it when Linda would show up back in the AE because it usually meant she was coming to screw HHH over lol. I mark raged.


Lol, I feel the opposite. I was 14 in 1999 and going into 2000 so I hated Triple H and other heels, and I loved all the faces. So Linda would show up and I knew she was going to help one of my heroes!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

admiremyclone said:


> Lol, I feel the opposite. I was 14 in 1999 and going into 2000 so I hated Triple H and other heels, and I loved all the faces. So Linda would show up and I knew she was going to help one of my heroes!


I hated Linda, Foley when he was Commissioner and Earl Hebner so badly lol. They would always try to screw HHH over and my little mark heart just couldn't take it!! Haha. Those were the days lol.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> I hated Linda, Foley when he was Commissioner and Earl Hebner so badly lol. They would always try to screw HHH over and my little mark heart just couldn't take it!! Haha. Those were the days lol.


I haven't been that invested in WWE TV in a long time. Foley as the Commisioner was genius, how can you hate such an amazing run??


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

admiremyclone said:


> I haven't been that invested in WWE TV in a long time. Foley as the Commisioner was genius, how can you hate such an amazing run??


Oh I appreciate it now alright. And Linda too lol. They were both genius and when I watch the shows back I love them even more if possible. But when you're a kid you're so invested in everything that happens. When Hebner screwed HHH over and Jericho won the title I was so fucking mad. Like  lol. Then when Rock beat Vince at KOTR to win the title, the next night Vince left, HBK resigned as commissioner and Foley was announced I raged because I knew he was going to fuck over HHH, haha. I love 2000 though. My favorite year of all time both when watching it back then and watching stuff back now.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I hated HHH back then. The bastard.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I loved him. I loved Rock too, and Jericho, and Kurt but except for when they feuded with HHH. :lmao I'm laughing at my child self here lol.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Eh, what did you think of Steve Austin? I loved all top baby faces and disliked the heels. 

I was bat shit scared of Taker in 99. I used to play in the park and would always keep looking over my shoulder to check he wasn't there. :lmao


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Rock was intimidating to me as a kid when he was heel. He reminded me of my Principal who took the piss outta students and embarrass them for talking in class. I liked him though. But it was a fucking weird comparison looking back :lol


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

#Boots2Students


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

So Linda already ruined the AE DVD? fpalm. There's no point in doing an Attitude Era DVD if you're going to present a soft version of what it really was. I hope they cancel it if that's the case. 

At least the nWo DVD is still going to happen but even with that, it's probably going to be inaccurate with false statements just to put WWE over. Waited a long time for a nWo DVD, hope the interviews on the documentary are the real sources like Bischoff, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Big Show, Luger etc and not WWE guys lying and pretending to know what happened there just so Vince can continue with his obsession over WCW/Bischoff/Turner/Hogan.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Austin/Rock at 'Mania X-Seven is 5-stars, moty 2001, and the greatest WM main event of all time. Hands down.

On Attitude Era, late 1999 until WrestleMania X-Seven is my favorite, favorite era of wrestling ever, ever. Note the emphasis. I just loved wrestling so damn much during those days. After that, it's Bret Hart's return in SS '96 until 'Mania XIV.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Silvervision are going to have the Punk DVD & BD in stock next week


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I loved him. I loved Rock too, and Jericho, and Kurt but except for when they feuded with HHH. :lmao I'm laughing at my child self here lol.


How did you like HHH as a kid, he was the epitome of evil!


----------



## zxLegionxz (Nov 23, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I loved him. I loved Rock too, and Jericho, and Kurt but except for when they feuded with HHH. :lmao I'm laughing at my child self here lol.



How the hell could someone like HHH he was a such a big dick back in the days LOL i hated him specially cause he cheated all the time against Rock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH was one of my favs in 2000. Hated when he lost the title at Backlash . Hated Rock and Austin, liked Angle, Kane, Big Show, Benoit, Guerrero (heel and babyface), Edge & Christian . I liked a lot of heels back then. But I also liked Undertaker, Jericho, Foley, Dudley Boys, APA etc. Just an amazing roster of talent that year .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've always loved HHH, even from his blueblood days.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Triple H was the GOAT during the AE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Popped in CEX earlier to trade a few things in, they usually have a few wrestling DVD's in of interest, plus i have been lucky - 9/10 of the DVD's i have bought from there have all been in EX Condition,

Anyway, grabbed a couple i have been wanting for ages but couldn't afford:

Greatest Stars Of The 80'sc (mainly for the Slaughter/Shiek match)
True Story Of Wrestlemania

Also saw a copy of WM17 2 Disc non-tagged classic version too which i grabbed 'cause i wanted WM27 but they couldn't find the damn discs lol,

I also saw non-tagged copies of RR 2001 and Backlash 2002 but couldn't afford them...


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

A couple of years ago I paid £27.99 for an original DVD Wrestlemania 17. Absolutely worth the purchase.

Best period of wrestling ever was beginning of 1999 until Wrestlemania 17 in 2001. The roster was stacked, every week was full of unforgettable moments and starting in 2000 the quality of matches improved so much. Just look at the PPVs from that year. Backlash, Judgment Day and Fully Loaded are legit PPV of the decade contenders imo.

I'll be pre-ordering the Punk Blu Ray tomorrow seeing as it's payday. Also waiting for Rock/Cena BD to arrive


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Paid £12 for WM 17 I think . Never paid more than £15 for any of WM 15-18 original release DVD's .

Want the Punk Bluray, but I ain't gots the cash so I'll download the doc when its online and get the set later.


----------



## 2 Ton 21 (Dec 28, 2011)

*Attitude Era Blu Ray To Be Released PG*

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Edgy-WWE-videos-are-back-after-Election-Day-3890600.php



> Earlier this month, WWE announced it would be taking off YouTube and other websites some of its raunchier wrestling videos, a move that was widely seen as designed to help the company's ex-CEO, Linda McMahon, spruce up her image for her U.S. Senate race.
> 
> Well, the company isn't quite consigning those clips to the trashcan. In November, just after the election, WWE will be releasing an "Attitude Era" Blu-ray.
> 
> ...


How exactly will that work? Just bleep and blur everything? Leave out a bunch of things? What about blood? Will the picture go black and white? This is such bullshit. Fine the shows now have to be PG. I may not like their version of PG, but it is what it is. Censoring the past however, fuck that


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Worst DVD of all time.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^Yeah I'm calling bullshit on this one. How does one produce a DVD celebrating an era famous for blood, sexuality, extreme violence and bad language and still keep it PG?

If they just shove a load of lame PG segments on there that nobody remembers then I won't be purchasing.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm dling that Kayfabe Commentaries megapack right now (41 GB). Out of all of it though I'm only keeping

Cornette Youshoot
Sheik Youshoot
Raven Guest Booker
New Jack Youshoot
Timeline 97
Timeline 99
Most awful angles


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Does it have the Lost Questions for Cornette in that pack too? If not, definitely look it up. I could listen to Cornette talk all day lol.

Sheik YS is probably the only shoot I can watch with the guy. Any other time I can barely understand a word he fucking says.

Raven has a great wrestling mind, his GB is good. His 4/5 parter where he talks about the ins and outs of being a wrestler and shit is really, really great. Think its part of ROH's straight shooting series.

New Jack is one of the biggest pieces of shit in the business. No time for him or any of his shoots.

Timeline 97 is with Cornette, so its great .

Timeline 99 is ok. Val isn't the best guy for it, but its not like they could get Austin, Rock, Undertaker etc for it.

Don't like the most awful angles thing. They've done a couple of videos similar to that and I thought they were the weakest series from KFC.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Youshoot
-----------
Youshoot with ****** Tonk Man
Youshoot with HTM2
Youshoot with Kevin Sullivan
Youshoot with Maria Kanellis
Youshoot with Sabu
Youshoot with Sean Waltman
Youshoot with Chyna
Youshoot with Mr. USA Tony Atlas
Youshoot with New Jack
Youshoot with Perry Saturn
Youshoot with Shane Douglas
Youshoot with Jim Cornette
Youshoot with Jim Cornette "The Lost Questions"
Youshoot with the Iron Sheik
Youshoot with Jamie Dundee
Youshoot with Missy Hyatt
Youshoot with The Sandman
Youshoot Live with Dixie Carter
Youshoot Live with Vince Russo

------------
Guest Booker
------------
Guest Booker with Dutch Mantell
Guest Booker with Gary Hart
Guest Booker with Greg Gagne
Guest Booker with Jim Cornette
Guest Booker with Kevin Sullivan
Guest Booker with Raven
Guest Booker with Mike Graham
Guest Booker with Jerry Jarrett
Guest Booker with Al Snow
Guest Booker with Bill Eadie
Guest Booker with Gabe Sapolsky
Guest Booker with Gabe Sapolsky & Kevin Sullivan "Yesterday and Today"

------------
Timeline WWE
------------
1986 with George "The Animal" Steele
1997 with Jim Cornette
1999 with Sean Morley
2001 with "Ivory" Lisa Moretti

------------
Timeline ECW
------------
1994 with Shane Douglas
1997 with Sabu

------------------------
KC Investigative Special
------------------------
Becoming a Horsement with J.J. Dillon
Rebuilding the Iron Sheik

-----------
Ring Roasts
-----------
Ring Roast I with the Iron Sheik
Ring Roast II with Terry Funk
Ring Roast III with Jim Cornette

-------------------
Wrestling's Most...
-------------------
Awful Angles

that's the list if you want to tell me which I should keep out of that. I want to listen to New Jack just to laugh my ass off, don't value what he has to say


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Youshoot with Kevin Sullivan
Youshoot with Perry Saturn
Youshoot with Shane Douglas
Youshoot with Jim Cornette
Youshoot with Jim Cornette "The Lost Questions"
Youshoot with the Iron Sheik

------------
Guest Booker
------------
Guest Booker with Dutch Mantell
Guest Booker with Gary Hart
Guest Booker with Greg Gagne
Guest Booker with Jim Cornette
Guest Booker with Kevin Sullivan
Guest Booker with Raven
Guest Booker with Mike Graham
Guest Booker with Jerry Jarrett
Guest Booker with Al Snow
Guest Booker with Bill Eadie
Guest Booker with Gabe Sapolsky
Guest Booker with Gabe Sapolsky & Kevin Sullivan "Yesterday and Today"

------------
Timeline WWE
------------
1986 with George "The Animal" Steele
1997 with Jim Cornette
1999 with Sean Morley
2001 with "Ivory" Lisa Moretti

------------
Timeline ECW
------------
1994 with Shane Douglas

------------------------
KC Investigative Special
------------------------
Becoming a Horsement with J.J. Dillon
Rebuilding the Iron Sheik - Not seen this so I have no idea, didn't even know it existed 

-----------
Ring Roasts
-----------
Ring Roast I with the Iron Sheik
Ring Roast II with Terry Funk
Ring Roast III with Jim Cornette


Those are what you should keep and watch lol. KFC are probably my favourite shoot company.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks, the reason I didn't want to keep the 2001 and 86 one is for 86...I simply don't care and for 2001 Ivory wasn't that involved in the main angles and all that, and I don't care about what goes on backstage with the divas lol. And really, all of those Guest Bookers? Some of them looked uninteresting to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love both the Timeline and Guest Booker series. Doesn't matter to me who is on them, they always have something interesting to say, some crazy stories etc. If I were to pick just the absolute MUST watch GB though:

Guest Booker with Dutch Mantell
Guest Booker with Jim Cornette
Guest Booker with Kevin Sullivan
Guest Booker with Raven
Guest Booker with Gabe Sapolsky
Guest Booker with Gabe Sapolsky & Kevin Sullivan "Yesterday and Today"


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

YoungGun_UK said:


> How did you like HHH as a kid, he was the epitome of evil!





zxLegionxz said:


> How the hell could someone like HHH he was a such a big dick back in the days LOL i hated him specially cause he cheated all the time against Rock


I was obviously a very weird kid lol. I always got into arguments at school with people about it too, ha. I don't really know why tbh. Like I said, I loved Rock, Austin, Kurt, Jericho etc and would say all their catchphrases and act out all their moves but I just loved HHH more and it's been like that ever since.


----------



## PAULHEYMANGUY (Sep 15, 2012)

*Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

Hi I want to watch a Wrestling documentary by that I mean interviews with relevant video footage rather than just matches put together.

Ive seen

Rise and Fall of ECW
Rise and Fall of WCW
Edge
Chris Jericho
The Rock
Stone Cold
Macho Man Randy Savage
Randy Orton
Brett Hart
Legends of wrestling

Thanks


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

KingCal said:


> I love both the Timeline and Guest Booker series. Doesn't matter to me who is on them, they always have something interesting to say, some crazy stories etc. If I were to pick just the absolute MUST watch GB though:
> 
> Guest Booker with Dutch Mantell
> Guest Booker with Jim Cornette
> ...


Alright, thanks. Already saw Cornette, has he ever had a bad shoot?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope lol. Cornette having a bad shoot is an impossibility .


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

I enjoyed McMahon as the doc was pretty entertaining 

The True Story of Wrestlemania is a fantastic watch

Bret Hart v Shawn Michaels Greatest Rivalries is also a really good watch

Any of those three should keep you entertained


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

WWE GREATEST RIVALRIES: SHAWN VS BRET 

http://www.wweo.net/?movie=/info/2326/wwe-greatest-rivalries:-shawn-vs-bret

Another 102 here to choose from on the same site:

http://www.wweo.net/?movie=/category/23/wwe-dvd


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

I enjoyed the Four Horsemen documentary alot.


----------



## APEX (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

The Randy Orton was is amazing (Bias, coming from me)

But if you want an in depth look at his life, problems and the truth about how he got into wrestling, I would watch this.

You get to see how the drugs effected him, how he nearly died, how his wife literally saved his life. And most importantly how his child changed his life forever.


*EDIT**!! - I've seen you've already watched :lmao*


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

I just recently watched he 'Triumph & Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling' and it's perhaps one of the best DVDs WWE put together. If you're into the rich history of the sport, and you want to delve into one of the most influential promotions from the golden era of pro wrestling, get this DVD


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Perry Saturn's shoot is pretty cool to watch. He is extremely open and any shoot that has a story about ring rat being fucked by Moppy is worth a watch.

Ivory's worth watching just to see how much of a fucking MILF she has become.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cornette's are all absolute gold.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus said:


> Perry Saturn's shoot is pretty cool to watch. He is extremely open and any shoot that has a story about ring rat being fucked by Moppy is worth a watch.
> 
> Ivory's worth watching just to see how much of a fucking MILF she has become.


I am in agreement with this.

If Ivory's vid went on for another hour I'm pretty sure her tits would have fallen out of that top. They just got more and more "out there" as it went on :lmao.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I honestly don't even remember if her shoot was any good. I was quite distracted. :lmao

Hard to believe she's 51 in a few months.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cornette is a fucking idiot. Everything I've seen from this guy is just some pissed off has been mad at the world and shitting on everybody. Is it funny? Sure. Are they worthwhile? Absolutely not if you ask me. Dude needs to chill the fuck out and stop being so angry imo.


----------



## RDClip (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

outside of WWE productions, Memphis Heat was really good. It chonicled the Memphis wrestling scene and also covered the feud between Jerry Lawler and Andy Kaufmen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

His shoots on HBK and HHH are comedic genius, whether they're 100% factual or not.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

Minus the ones that OP already stated, these are probably the finest documentaries I've seen:

- The Monday Night Wars
- McMahon
- WWE: Legendary Moments
- The Legacy Of Stone Cold Steve Austin
- The Stone Cold Truth
- Wrestling With Shadows
- History Of The World Heavyweight Championship

And the CM Punk DVD which is about to come out in two weeks is gonna be GOLD.


----------



## HankHill_85 (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

The True Story of WrestleMania is damn good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

His shoots on everybody are hilarious but scream incredibly butthurt at the same time. He just comes across as a jealous and angry little man. He's funny to laugh at but I don't take anything he says seriously.


----------



## ejc8710 (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

the self destruction of the ultimate warrior if u wanna listen to a bunch of bullshit and vince ass kissers


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: Recommend a Wrestling documentary DVD.*

Hart/HBK Greatest Rivalries
HBK Triumph & Heartbreak

What's the True Story of Wrestlemania one?


----------



## ThatWeirdGuy (Feb 21, 2011)

Hey, I'm thinking of starting a thread where I would review a list of matches (Cena's top 50 for example) and then after I've posted each match after I've watched it and left my thoughts, others would then be able to post what they thought. Only problem is that I'm not sure where to do this on the site. If someone that knows of the ideal place for it could shoot me a quick PM I'd be really grateful. 

I'm just thinking that this would be something cool to do on the side to my BTB as well, and watching and reviewing real life matches would probably help with that too. 

Cheers (Y)


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Just watched Cornette vs Bolin, couldn't stop laughing at the Ether Cornette gave him at the end. Good god :lmao

^Above, sounds good.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Just researched the history of the WHC doc last night. The beginning is absolute gold but the end is crap and is skimmed over. I guess it shows how prestigious the belt was then and now. I do fin it funny how when they say WCW had bad champions they have Russo, Arqutee and.... Jarrett. Wow if I didn't know any better I'd say WWE doesn't like that TNA show. Kiniski keeping to kayfabe is always a joy. And I found it interesting that they (albeit subtlety) point out that at one point the NWA belt meant more than the WWE belt. Finally, Keith David FTW. 

Anyway, also watched the Heatseekers EP.of Legends of Wrestling. Pretty good but Hayes is unbearably (and hilariously) awkward at parts and JR should've said more. Foley loving everybody was also funny. Any other episodes recommended?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have only watched a couple of the LOW Series, but Hayes is annoying alot of the time IMHO, he just never shuts up, like in the Monday Night Wars, let Bisch speak FFS!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayes is a bit of a prick in the MNW ep. Its like he's brown nosing Bischoff all the time because he's actually in the room rather than shitting all over him like he probably would if he wasn't there .

Bischoff there:

"The first Nitro aired on a day when Raw wasn't airing. That was a smart move to make Mr Bischoff sir! "

Bischoff not there:

"They knew that Nitro couldn't complete with Raw at the time so they purposely aired the first episode on a date when Raw wasn't being shown, likely because they are cowards and didn't want to outright compete with the titan that is Monday Night Raw from the get go. They had to resort to stealing talent to make a buzz in order to try their best to gain extra viewers"


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just rewatched The True Story of Wrestlemania, my god I love this Documentary, without a doubt my favourite WWE doc ever produced, a great story and really well done. I think its a dvd I'll definitely be watching every Wrestlemania weekend from now on to get me pumped for the show

Always enjoyed the Legends of Wrestling series, don't know if they are still there but there were a few of them up on youtube


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

True Story of WM is an enjoyable doc, but they skip over sooooooo much, especially the last decade or so. Good but slightly disappointing at the same time .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just finished watching Friday night's event (1997 September). It was really an awful show :lol 

Three matches (in a row) ended in a DQ, one poor crusierweight match and two squash matches. The final match was a handicap match between two jobbers and the Interrogator (What a bad wrestler he was). 

Next show I'm going to watch is Ground Zero: In Your House 1997. I hope it's a good show.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Undertaker vs Michaels is awesome. Don't know about the rest though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Just finished watching Friday night's event (1997 September). It was really an awful show :lol
> 
> Three matches (in a row) ended in a DQ, one poor crusierweight match and two squash matches. The final match was a handicap match between two jobbers and the Interrogator (What a bad wrestler he was).
> 
> Next show I'm going to watch is Ground Zero: In Your House 1997. I hope it's a good show.


The last 97 show I watched is 11 August last night. The Rock joined the Nation of Domination and DX is about to be formed. Pretty enjoyable stuff for the most part.

For 2004, I've had a slight setback with the channel I used being terminated from YouTube so now I've been downloading the entire SD/Raw/PPV packs for that year. As I type this, I'm watching Bad Blood and so far, it's been just okay in the first hour.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Michaels/Mankind from that show was a great TV main event. Those two didn't have many matches together but their chemistry was off the charts. This one isn't at the level of the classic Mind Games match but I especially like how the roles were reversed with Michaels as the heel and Mankind as the face in this encounter. The story of their matches was "The Boy Toy" having to up his physicality game to compete with the deranged Mankind and they played it oh so well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique turned blue. Dafuq? Lol. Grats. You just buried my red. :hhh


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Does anyone remember the HBK/Austin match when security was beating the shit out of a kid who fell over the railing then Shawn came out and helped him? Then Austin let him through the ropes like a gentleman after :lmao. I don't remember anything else about it


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Yes, that's the match they had at King of the Ring 97 when they were the tag team champions. The crowd reactions displayed in that match was another example of the male fans really getting behind Austin. The cheers for Michaels were higher pitched voices and the cheers from Austin were much lower and stronger. The match is overlooked due to the Mania match being so huge and memorable, but KOTR 97 is definitely a sleeper hit.



Starbuck said:


> Clique turned blue. Dafuq? Lol. Grats. You just buried my red. :hhh


WrestleMania 12 style.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

This Brian Pillman - Goldust stuff is similar to Eddie and Rey feud.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

After half a year of research and match watching........

The Top 100 WWE Championship Matches in PPV History : (100-91)

100.









"This is jail Brock, we're inmates, and you just dropped the soap"

Brock Lesnar vs John Cena (Backlash 2003) : **** 1/2*


99.








"THE ANKLE LOCK! THE ANKLE LOCK! AND MICHAELS IS TAPPING !"

Shawn Michaels vs Ken Shamrock (In Your House Degeneration X) : **** 1/2*


98.









"Mankind, your monkey ass better stay down for the 10 count!"

Mankind vs The Rock (Last Man Standing ; St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999) : **** 1/2*


97.









"The Age of Orton continues on!"

Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV) : **** 1/2*


96.









"John, I'VE NEVER QUIT IN MY LIFE!"

John Cena vs Batista (I Quit Match ; Over the Limit 2010) : **** 1/2*


95.









"Whether it's Jeff Hardy, or Vladimir Kozlov, when you step in the ring with the WWE Champion, you have to go THROUGH ME... GET IT?"

Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (Cyber Sunday 2008) : **** 1/2*


94. 









"I am NOT afraid of Umaga"

John Cena vs Umaga (New Years Revolution 2007) : **** 1/2*


93.









"This year at Summerslam, the storybook fairytale run that John Cena's been on, will be over"

John Cena vs Randy Orton (Summerslam 2007) : **** 3/4*


92.









"He's chopping the big man down to HIS size!"

Bret Hart vs Diesel (King of the Ring 1994) : **** 3/4*

91. 









"Intercontinental Champion vs The World Wrestling Federation Champion"

Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 1992) : **** 3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Congrats on getting blue-named Clique.

K1ngofK1ng's, can't wait to see the rest of the list. Nothing I majorly disagree on in that first batch, well, except I do have that Orton/Cena SS07 match at ****1/4. But yeah, like I said can't wait to see what the rest of the list has in store. I expect nothing less than another 70 HHH matches on the list from you.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The more HHH matches, the better imo :side:

Good stuff so far.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I am looking forward to seeing whose name appears most on his list. I've never thought about who has the most amount of quality WWE Championship matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ugh, fucking hate that Mania 24 Triple Threat (besides the ending, that's great). So many pointless spots and submission attempts. But yeah, looking forward to the rest of the list mane.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doubt I'd have Orton/Cena SS 07 or Bret/HBK SS 92 anywhere near a list I would do . Both are terrible .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I love the Mania 24 triple threat. One of my favorites ever. Just all around enjoyable and evenly divided so all three men get to showcase their abilities. And the ending is awesome too!

Almost finished with Bad Blood, just HIAC left and it's been boring for its first 10 or so minutes.


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

> WWE
> 
> CM Punk "Best in the World" DVD Review: WWE Home Video's Latest Is a Must-Buy
> By David Bixenspan on September 24, 2012
> ...


Source: lordsofpain.net

Wow this looks phenominal! Can't wait to get it!

Thoughts?


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Can't wait for Punks DVD, I'm expecting a really honest doc and the match listing is very good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Bad Blood 2004:*

La Resistance vs Chris Benoit/Edge - **3/4
- Was good while it lasted but the DQ made it unmemorable.

Chris Jericho vs Tyson Tomko - **
- With Christian injured, Tomko fills in for him and here's his first match which he loses to Jericho. Kinda boring and nothing special. And Tomko's got some ugly ass tattoos on his torso, it takes away some of the enjoyment from anything involving him and I don't know why. I just can't stand looking at it.

Victoria vs Gail Kim vs Trish Stratus vs Lita - ***
- A fun 4 way between four of the best women wrestlers in the WWE history with Trish picking up another title reign.

Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin - ***1/4
- A good match between two talented athletes. Just felt a bit slow compared to what I came in expecting. Still pretty good and the part with Flair was funny. Is there a time where Flair has a fight with anyone where he DOESN'T take a back body drop? He probably takes that move more than he blades!

Eugene vs Jonathan Coachman - **1/4
- Stupid but some pretty entertaining spots which makes it passable.

Chris Benoit vs Kane - ****
- Match of the night by far. Very well structured match with Kane playing the unbeatable, strong monster and Benoit being the underdog, fighting champion. The story going into it is that Benoit struggles to get the Crossface or the Sharpshooter locked in on Kane and even when he does it in the match, Kane powers out or reaches the rope so instead, Benoit just uses a roll-up to retain his title. Great match and possibly the best I've seen from Kane.

HHH vs Shawn Michaels (Hell in a Cell) - **1/2
- Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Can anybody say boring? So damn slow and they spend majority of the time on the mat. And I can't even blame them. Who's insane idea was it to have them wrestle for over 45 minutes? I'm not even that critical of their matches like KingCal tends to be but this shit right here was absolutely awful. And WWE's attempts at making this feud some epic rivalry of the decade deal feels so forced and hard to buy into. They had a great SummerSlam match but then they started dragging it and here they are two years later and finally, there's some sort of closure to this extended, played out feud.

*Overall:* *** out of ***** (A decent PPV with an excellent World Title match and a good IC title match below it. The main event sucked and the rest of the show ranged from decent to below average but nothing too terrible. A million times better than Bad Blood from 2003 and although both HIAC main events sucked, this one had _some_ enjoyment into it despite dragging on for too long with a few cool spots like the elbow drop from the ladder.)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I read another review of Punk's DVD as well. It truly looks like a phenomenal DVD all-round. I'll definitely be picking the set up on the first day for Blu Ray.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches : 90-81*

90.









"Triple H ya' son of a bitch you ain't leavin' Unforgiven with that WWF Championship belt, and that's the bottom line cause Stone Cold said so!"

Triple H vs The Rock vs Mankind vs The Big Show vs Kane vs Davey Boy Smith (Six Pack Challenge ; Unforgiven 1999) : **** 3/4*


89. 









"Brock Lesnar, it's time to meet your maker"

Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (Biker Chain Match ; No Mercy 2003) : **** 3/4*


88.









"You wanna know who believes in Jeff Hardy?"

Edge vs Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (Armageddon 2008) : **** 3/4*


87.









"RVD would have never been champion without my help"

Rob Van Dam vs Edge (Vengeance 2006) : **** 3/4*


86.









"Nobody in Canada is ugly enough to wear a mask like that!"

Bret Hart vs The Patriot (In Your House Ground Zero) : **** 3/4*


85.









"I don't care if you're an olympic gold medalist just as much as I don't care about the largest athlete in the world, you just don't compare to THEEE WRESTLING GOD!"

JBL vs The Big Show vs Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 2005) : **** 3/4*


84.









"Hey Cena, say hello to your NEW NUMBER ONE CONTENDER... KURT ANGLE!"

John Cena vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2005) : **** 3/4*


83.









"Look at the power of the Bulldog!"

Shawn Michaels vs Davey Boy Smith (King of the Ring 1996) : **** 3/4*


82.









"You want some Captain Charisma ? COME GET SOME"

John Cena vs Christian vs Chris Jericho (Vengeance 2005) : **** 3/4*


81.










"This Sunday, it's the end of the world as you know it, CM Punk"

CM Punk vs Kofi Kingston vs Chris Jericho vs R-Truth vs The Miz vs Dolph Ziggler (Elimination Chamber Match ; Elimination Chamber 2012) : **** 3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm definitely picking up the Punk DVD first chance I get. I was excited about it before but now I'm even more excited about it. I always love the documentaries and from the sound of it Punk's will be no exception.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really thinkin about watchin some of these old WWE Title matches so I can have some updated thoughts and ratings on your current list. But for now, watched a couple Smackdown matches tonight, here's me thoughts.

*The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton *_(9/16/2005)_

Billed as the rubber match, this could've easily been on PPV, but they decided to give it to us on free TV. I'll take that. Pretty damn good match. Orton was really on point throughout, great control segment and some beauuutiful counters. That dropkick off the ropes, SHIT, had to rewind that and watch it again. Brilliant mind games played with the casket. Last few minutes were really exciting and it certainly had a ppv big match feel. Crowd was hyped. So how does it stack up their other singles matches? No fuckin clue, haven't seen any of them in years.  This one though, gets a solid: **** 3/4*

*Steel Cage Match*
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio _(9/9/2005)_

September of '05 looks pretty great for Smackdown, huh? Love the way this starts with that fuckin EVIL look on Eddie's face and the stalking. Certainly feel the hatred there. Right off the bat I wanna say I'm a little pissed that we missed all of Eddie's control segment cause of the damn commercial break. I know they showed a couple replays but come on, we come back and Rey's mask is torn? I'd like to see all of that please. As the match went on it got into your typical WWE cage match style. Lots of random slow climbing and spots from the top that were pretty unnecessary, but hey, it was enjoyable. I literally had no idea you could even win by pinfall until the very end, pretty dumb no one even attempted one. But yeah, a fun TV cage match with a good story told in the finishing minutes. Would probably rate it a little higher had I seen the full match with no commercial breaks. **** 1/4*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Liking the PPV WWE Title countdown. Like Cal I wouldn't have Bret/Michaels on the list, I don't think. I watched it recently and Bret looked really good, but it's pretty standard and draws out a bit. My opinion fluctuates on Cena/Orton.

I'd probably have Michaels/Bulldog from KOTR int he top 20, but I'd have to actually make a list to see if that's true.

I need to see Michaels/Shamrock.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 80-71*

80.









"HE HAS KANE UP FOR THE GTS!"

CM Punk vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan (No Way Out 2012) : **** 3/4*


79.









"Dear trailer park trash........"

Steve Austin vs The Rock (Backlash 1999) : **** 3/4*


78.









"Hey Brock, why don't cha try the old deadman... I'll make you famous"

Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (Unforgiven 2002) : **** 3/4*


77.









"Witness the birth , of a WRESTLING GOD!"

Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (Texas Bullrope Match ; Great American Bash 2004) : **** 3/4*


76.









"Neither of you have even won a Cell match before, you're going against destiny"

John Cena vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio (Hell in a Cell ; Hell in a Cell 2011) : **** 3/4*


75.









"Imagine what's under that mask !"

The Undertaker vs Mankind (In Your House Revenge Of The Taker) : **** 3/4*


74.









"The Rock says that there's a piece of trailer park trash out there who's gonna go get his monkey ass whipped"

The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XV) : **** 3/4*


73.









"If Cena Wins We Riot"

John Cena vs Rob Van Dam (Extreme Rules ; One Night Stand 2006) : **** 3/4*


72.









"Who is..The SHOW...STOPPER?!" ......."ME!"

Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV) : **** 3/4*


71.









"The dawn of the next big thing has risen"

The Rock vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2002) : **** 3/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Alright, *K1ngOfK1ngs*, I'm takin this project on somewhat. Gonna watch everything I basically have available to me that's on your list and give my thoughts. Surprisingly really excited about it. But shit man, can you slow down? Give me some time between posts. haha

*#100 - WWE Championship*
Brock Lesnar (c) vs. John Cena _(Backlash 2003)_

How bout that cheap heat for Cena? They're in his fucking home state and he comes out in a Yankees jersey. Hilarious, bet we never see that again. Love how the fans went from "Yankees suck!" & "Cena sucks!" then 10 minutes later "Let's go Cena!"  Really good performance from the young Cena, loved the story with Lesnar's head wound. The fans were pretty weird throughout, didn't seem to care too much about the match. Everything flowed well until the last couple minutes, couple weird mishaps in timing and the finish came off a bit flat, BUT, everything before that was great. Good nearfall for Cena too. I can accept its placement on the list. **** 1/2*

*# 98 - WWF Championship - Last Man Standing*
Mankind (c) vs. The Rock _(In Your House: St. Valentine's Day Massacre)_

_"Look at my competition, look at him. It looks like a monkey came down here, took a crap, and out came Mick Foley." :lmao _It has been a long long time since I had this much fun watching a match. So many moments where I legit LOLed, especially when Cole yelled "NO! NO! NO! NO!" after Rock backdropped Foley off the announce table. He's so damn concerned with Mankind's well being I guess. It's the attitude era, so it's a bunch of brawling but I'll be damned if it isn't great. Rock's legwork was smart and brutal, especially when he dropped the steps on him. Fuck that had to hurt. I'd probably have this just a tad higher on my list based on entertainment value alone. So much fun. **** 3/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alright man, thought a top 100 was a little pretentious but fuck it. Have a list of WHC PPV matches ready to go after this one as well. That's what you get after basically a full year of watching every single PPV world title match in the history of the company 

Probably going to stick to 10 a day, that way everybody can chime in and tell me how much of a fucking idiot I am :hhh


----------



## The Buryer (Sep 22, 2012)

That Elimination chamber match with Punk and Jericho is absolutely dreadful. Only ** at best.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Really enjoying your list KingofKings, good idea and good work so far. Not much I'd like to change or add to it and mostly agree with what you've put thus far. (Y)

While I'm here what do people think of Wrestlemania IX?


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

The Bad Guy said:


> Really enjoying your list KingofKings, good idea and good work so far. Not much I'd like to change or add to it and mostly agree with what you've put thus far. (Y)
> 
> While I'm here what do people think of Wrestlemania IX?


Maybe the worst Wretlemania ever, certainly in the worst 3, best match was HBK-Tatanka and even that's only decent, then its topped off by the Hogan crap, still at least the arena looked cool.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Mania 9 was awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Steiners/Head Shrinkers was good. Apart from that, trash. WM 11 might actually only be the second worst WM now I think about it. HBK/Diesel was probably around the same level as the tag from WM 9, then LT Vs Bam Bam was better than it had any right to be, and JJ/Razor was solid.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Razor made everything better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Razor Vs Backlund at WM 9 should have made it the greatest WM ever. But they didn't .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*# 89 - WWE Championship - Biker's Chain Match*
Brock Lesnar (c) vs. The Undertaker _(No Mercy 2003)_

I remember when I was younger this match pissed me off due to the lack of blood and certainly the lack of the chain being used. These days I can appreciate it more for what it is, but the same problems still sort of apply (not so much the blood). As a regular No DQ match this is fine. I liked the innovative stuff they did; piledriver on the steps, chokeslam off the top, etc. I understand Vince was doing literally everything he could to keep that chain away from Taker, but that finish still leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. If I was booking it, I definitely would've had Taker kick out of the first shot then had Lesnar win with either another one or an F5. That way the crowd would've still been invested in it and not super pissed by the ending. The match overall is pretty good though, last few minutes are especially great minus the ending. Not sure if it would've made my list, but if it did it would've been in the very early going. **** 1/2*

*# 86 - WWF Championship*
Bret Hart (c) vs. The Patriot _(In Your House: Ground Zero)_

I've had this on tape for 15 years and don't think I've ever watched the full match. So, guess now's the time. Gotta say, the buildup video was pretty interesting. Enjoyed seeing the backstory from Patriot and the footage from All Japan. Also loved Bret's heel promo beforehand (surprising right?). The match itself was well... good I guess? Let me first say that The Patriot reminds me way too much of Mil Mascaras, and that's certainly not a good thing. He seems very stiff in the ring (in terms of his body language) and he can't sell the simplest things, like a punch or kick. He wasn't exactly _bad_ in the ring but his moveset was very basic and he still seemed pretty green. Luckily Bret held up his end. He sold everything really well and I adored his legwork, despite it not going anywhere. The match was pretty overbooked, the Vader & Bulldog interference was totally unnecessary and it was pretty silly that the match continued after Bret got pummeled. Patriot got a couple nice nearfalls but at the same time he got WAY too many of them. Nothing awful, but nothing great at the same time. Tough one to rate and I'm disagreeing with you for the first time so far K1ings. *****


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So I'm still going through the 2006 SmackDowns at a slow rate, and I've come to the point where Kurt Angle (and Taz and others I guess) leave for ECW. And honestly, 2006 SD Angle might be my favourite Angle period ever. Wasn't really really great or anything, but he got constantly paired up with Mysterio and had two of his top ten (at worst) matches with Taker. The stuff with Orton and Henry and handicap matches with MNM, etc. were kinda fun too. 

I'm in the middle of June and Kennedy's come back, Orton was suspended and will be drafted to Raw soon, MNM is gone, Benoit's taking time off, Henry's about to get injured and the Great Khali is getting featured more. I'm a little worried about the next couple of months.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 70-61*

70.









"Olympic gold medalist, and your FIRST WWF undisputed champion!"

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2001) : ******


69.









"ROB VAN DAM WANTS TO BE THE WWF CHAMPION!"

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle vs Rob Van Dam (No Mercy 2001) : ******


68.









"Wrestling machine ? You can't see me!"

John Cena vs Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels (Taboo Tuesday 2005) : ******


67.









"EDGE HAS BEEN ELIMINATED! WE'RE GONNA HAVE A NEW WWE CHAMPION!"

Edge vs Vladimir Kozlov vs The Undertaker vs Triple H vs Jeff Hardy vs The Big Show (Elimination Chamber Match ; No Way Out 2009) : ******


66.









"THEY'RE BRAWLING ALREADY!"

Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Judgment Day 2001) : ******


65.









"And now, introducing CM Punk's personal ring announcer.... WWE Hall of Famer... HOWARD FINKEL!"

Alberto Del Rio vs CM Punk (Survivor Series 2011) : ******


64.









"I'm gonna go drink a few Steveweisers and listen to some BACKSTREET BOYS"

Kurt Angle vs The Rock vs Steve Austin vs The Undertaker vs Triple H vs Kane (Hell in a Cell ; Armageddon 2000) : ******


63.









"John Cena, I'm going to get on top of you and....Wait......"

John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels (Backlash 2007) : ******


62.









"It's going to be the END of an ERA"

Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (First Blood Match ; Fully Loaded 1999) : ******



61.









"Oh he did NOT do that to The Great One!"

Chris Jericho vs The Rock (Royal Rumble 2002) : ******


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All this talk of Smackdown 06 really gets me excited about watching that year despite having mostly heard negative things about WWE in 06. Right now I'm watching Smackdown after Bad Blood 04 (Raw PPV but still...) and JBL just cut an intense and kick-ass promo. That's right after CNBC fired him for the Nazi salute in Germany so he was legitimately pissed. The show has gotten better now in June compared to the first couple of months after Wrestlemania and the draft which raped the roster completely. And the cruiserweight division has truly been turned to a joke. Chavo lost to Jacqueline and she had the title for 10 days then he wins it back and drops it to his father.






And lol @ Backlash 07. "The only pose you'll be doing tonight is laying on your back in that ring... with me on top!"


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> All this talk of Smackdown 06 really gets me excited about watching that year despite having mostly heard negative things about WWE in 06. Right now I'm watching Smackdown after Bad Blood 04 (Raw PPV but still...) and JBL just cut an intense and kick-ass promo. That's right after CNBC fired him for the Nazi salute in Germany so he was legitimately pissed. The show has gotten better now in June compared to the first couple of months after Wrestlemania and the draft which raped the roster completely. And the cruiserweight division has truly been turned to a joke. Chavo lost to Jacqueline and she had the title for 10 days then he wins it back and drops it to his father.


 The cruiserweight will soon get better with Spike Dudley's heel turn and Funaki's title reign. Looking at the roster now, I can see why the cruiserweight was lacking. You had Tajiri moving to RAW and Ultimo Dragon leaving the WWE.


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

If this "PG" picture is any indication of the upcoming The Attitude Era DVD, it will look awful.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*# 83 - WWF Championship*
Shawn Michaels (c) vs. British Bulldog _(King of the Ring 1996)_

When I originally saw you had this so low on the list, I was like woah, big disagreement on that one. But I decided to hold my tongue til I rewatched it. Still love the shit outta this. Has just about everything you'd want out of a wrestling match; power, athleticism, mat wrestling, storytelling, beautiful transitions & counters, plus some highly entertaining commentary from Owen Hart. Bulldog's control segment was a joy to watch, every time you thought Michaels had a glimmer of hope he'd get hit with that powerful clothesline. Really the only thing to complain about is the ending, which was just weird as a whole. Had that been better this would've easily been a classic, but as is, it's still fuckin excellent. Probably be up at least 50 spots higher on my own list. ***** 1/4*

*# 82 - WWE Championship - Triple Threat Match*
John Cena (c) vs. Christian vs. Chris Jericho _(Vengeance 2005)_

Just a flat out fun watch. Exciting the whole way through with some innovative spots. Great job of actually keeping the other guy outside instead of them laying there for 5 minutes at a time. Christian's nearfalls were really well done, no complaints anywhere. **** 3/4*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm pretty sure I could watch every WWE Championship match that's ever happened on a PPV and not find a single match I like less than the Armageddon HIAC.



Choke2Death said:


> All this talk of Smackdown 06 really gets me excited about watching that year despite having mostly heard negative things about WWE in 06.


Some of the writing was abysmal, there's shitty segments/mic stuff and you have to sit through five See No Evil promos every episode, but you're promised at least like three good matches a week. And I'm not going to lie, I am SOOOO digging King Booker. 

IDK about Raw, though. I wouldn't watch those in full. 



chargebeam said:


> If this "PG" picture is any indication of the upcoming The Attitude Era DVD, it will look awful.


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't worry, Yeah, you still have Hardy, Finlay, Helms, Regal, Londrick and Mysterio on the shows around the point where you are up to . And Kennedy is actually good at this point in time too . 

What did you think of Benoit/Henry btw?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingCal said:


> And Kennedy is actually good at this point in time too .


Eh. Thought he looked pretty worthless against Scotty 2 Hotty in his return, but I'll see what happens.



KingCal said:


> What did you think of Benoit/Henry btw?


Pretty fucking great and pretty much exactly how you'd want a Henry/Benoit match to go. Henry reversing the crossface by just turning face up and swinging Benoit was spectacular. I'm annoyed they didn't get a program because Henry got injured.  I can't imagine how great a lengthy PPV match could have been.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Takes a couple of weeks for Kennedy to be in a match worth while, I'll give you that, but once he does he really gets on a roll. Working with the likes of Matt Hardy (at that time), Finlay, Benoit, Undertaker, Mysterio etc absolutely helps, but I don't think there is a single match with those guys where he is carried.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Am I missing something regarding that Beer truck segment picture, don't see whats wrong with it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Same here mate, thought it was just me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The middle finger is missing from the giant steve austin foam finger


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-cancels-the-attitude-era-dvd/27727/

Attitude Era DVD Cancelled/Postponed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> The middle finger is missing from the giant steve austin foam finger


LOL, is that a photoshop or for real? The DVD got to be a joke if they are seriously going to censor it like that.

EDIT: If they are seriously canceling it because they want to pretend the Attitude Era never existed then it's going to be comical with this company from this point on. At least Benoit wont be alone from the list of things/people that are being swept under the rug!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They'll likely release the DVD once Linda fails again and (hopefully) decides to give it up as a bad job.

Then again, I really don't care . Wasn't looking forward to the set in the slightest.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

FUCK! I was looking forward to the DVD.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

They canceled the DVD? LOL, I said a few days ago that if they want to present a soft version of the Attitude Era then it's better to cancel but I didn't think they will do it. I guess this fucking Linda campaign is more important than anything for them, they're on their way to destroy YouTube, now this DVD. Embarrassing. Just makes me want to see her lose even more now.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

LOL. I never thought they would go that far! Oh well. Once Linda loses we can get back on track with the DVD.



Choke2Death said:


> If they are seriously canceling it because they want to pretend the Attitude Era never existed then it's going to be comical with this company from this point on. At least Benoit wont be alone from the list of things/people that are being swept under the rug!


They actually brought up Benoit in the "anti-Linda" smear campaign.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't care. The AE has already been milked to death. The should do a Set with the best matches from the ruthless aggression era. Now that would be worth our money.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RevolverSnake said:


> I don't care. The AE has already been milked to death. The should do a Set with the best matches from the ruthless aggression era. Now that would be worth our money.


You have a point. They need to show the RA era some love. So many classic moments from 2002-2006 that's well worth a DVD release. But they may be avoiding it just because Benoit was a huge name from that era and a DVD without him looks handicapped.



NearFall said:


> They actually brought up Benoit in the "anti-Linda" smear campaign.


Saw this earlier this week and I'm happy that they are using it against Linda. Benoit is already getting buried badly by the company, so his existence might as well make them pay in some way as revenge.


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

Awesome news. It's better to not have a DVD at all if they wanted to alter the content and remove all adult references. I prefer waiting a few more years and get a real Attitude DVD set without censorship, after all this Linda McMahon shit is over.


----------



## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

*Attitude Era DVD Might Get Canceled: Currently Postponed*



> It appears that WWE’s planned DVD/Blu-Ray set on the Attitude Era has been cancelled, or at least postponed. According to WWEDVDNews.com, internal DVD schedules reveal that the project is no longer slated for a November 2012 release.
> 
> While Amazon.com still has the DVD available for pre-sale, BestBuy.com has already removed it from their upcoming DVD release listings.
> 
> Just yesterday, WWE’s Attitude Era DVD was in the news when it was revealed that the project would have a “PG” rating and would not feature any ‘adult’ content, which was a staple of the beloved era.


Thanks Linda, now go fuck yourself.


----------



## Apex Rattlesnake (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Attitude Era DVD Might Get Canceled: Currently Postponed*

Linda is a cunt.


----------



## HOJO (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: Attitude Era DVD Might Get Canceled: Currently Postponed*


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

*Re: Attitude Era DVD Might Get Canceled: Currently Postponed*

Disappointing, but I can't say I'm surprised. I think I'll be more shocked if it actually gets released (either before Christmas 2012 or altogether).


----------



## Erza Knightwalker (May 31, 2011)

*Re: Attitude Era DVD Might Get Canceled: Currently Postponed*

I'd rather not have a PG-rated Attitude Era DVD anyway, when it should be rated TV-14-DLV.

But still, fuck you Linda.


----------



## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

*Re: Attitude Era DVD Might Get Canceled: Currently Postponed*



PricelessDamnation said:


> I'd rather not have a PG-rated Attitude Era DVD anyway, when it should be rated TV-14-DLV.
> 
> But still, fuck you Linda.


Would rather have a PG rather AE dvd, than a no rated, unreleased AE dvd.


----------



## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

> *WWE Rep Says "Attitude Era" DVD and Blu-Ray Is Still Scheduled For Release*
> 
> It was reported Friday that WWE may have canceled, or at least delayed, its scheduled DVD and Blu-ray release, WWE: The Attitude Era, based on the title's removal from internal video release schedules for both the United States and Australia. This report is false.
> 
> ...


.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Good to see it isn't canceled. 

Still, I don't understand why Vince, a guy who turned a family business into a billion dollar corporation, is allowing his wife to shit on his life's work. It's embarrassing how pussy whipped the guy is seeming to be, for someone who's such a savy, smart, ruthless business man you'd expect him to at-least maintain some shred of dignity. I honestly wonder how he benefits from ruining his business just so Linda can run (unsuccessfully) for office?


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

#Mark said:


> Good to see it isn't canceled.
> 
> Still, I don't understand why Vince, a guy who turned a family business into a billion dollar corporation, is allowing his wife to shit on his life's work. It's embarrassing how pussy whipped the guy is seeming to be, for someone who's such a savy, smart, ruthless business man you'd expect him to at-least maintain some shred of dignity. I honestly wonder how he benefits from ruining his business just so Linda can run (unsuccessfully) for office?


At this point, isn't WWE basically Linda's life work too? She worked there from 1980 till 2009. I'm pretty certain an edited DVD isn't worth shit to Vince compared to that, no matter how fans feel.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Mister Hands said:


> At this point, isn't WWE basically Linda's life work too? She worked there from 1980 till 2009. I'm pretty certain an edited DVD isn't worth shit to Vince compared to that, no matter how fans feel.


Yeah but he's contributed more to the company. I understand that if Linda wants to run she will but it seems as if he concedes to all her requests, there should be a compromise instead of them just completely watering down the company.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Ryder from SD this week... it was actually a good match. Gonna re-watch it again to give it a final rating, but right now it's around *** for me. Not only was it Barrett's best performance since his return, but this is the first Ryder match I've watched in a while outside of Ryder/Cesaro, and between those two matches at least it seems like Ryder has improved by a good margin from where he was earlier this year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 60-51*


60.









"If I lose, I will NEVER wrestle on American soil again!"

The Undertaker vs Bret Hart (w/Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels ; Summerslam 1997) : ******


59.









"I'm sick of Miz talking in his little tough guy voice...'REALLY?' 'REALLY?' "

CM Punk vs The Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC Match ; TLC 2011) : ******


58.









"A MCMAHON IN EVERY CORNER!"

Triple H vs The Rock vs Big Show vs Mick Foley (Elimination Match ; Wrestlemania 2000) : ******


57.









"Sycho Sid just stole the World Wrestling Federation Championship!"

Shawn Michaels vs Sycho Sid (Survivor Series 1996) : ******


56.









"Why wasn't I the face of the company John ?"

Batista vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI) : ******


55.









"Michaels just kicked the Game's head off!"

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H (Survivor Series 2009) : ******


54.









"It's two in the best of the world going at it, but all the focus is on AJ"

CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (W/Special Referee AJ Lee ; Money in the Bank 2012 :******


53.









"Michaels is trying to hook the sharpshooter"

Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 1997) : ******

52. (TIE)









"It's all on the line! Can the game hold on?"

John Cena vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII) : ******










"On Sunday...The KING of KINGS gets his revenge"

Triple H vs John Cena (Night of Champions 2008) : ******

51.









"John Cena..I will PIN you."

Randy Orton vs John Cena (No Way Out 2008) : ******


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, I'm really thinking about doing my own top 100 title matches list but there's far too much for me to bother watching including the pre-mid 90s. I'd probably just make it from 96 onwards or something.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I would do a Top 100 WWE Title matches, but I'm too lazy.

I'll just rate the matches I've watched based off K1ngofK1ng's top 100 when he's finished.

Can't wait to see the top 50.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lot's of Cena in the list so far. I wonder if that means there's more to come or if he won't be at the top end of the list lol. Interdasting.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Well, one reoccurring name that stands out to me on your list so far is John Cena. I think I counted Cena 16 matches and you still have some big ones left to go with him. The man is surely one of the best big match workers of the last decade.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena is da goat. :cena2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trust me, this list has done wonders for me thus far in trying to get my point across that Cena is one of the greatest workers in the business today, and has been for quite some time (Well, that's a fact to most other than wannabe "smarks" who clamor for the attitude era and then bitch about workrate ). This is coming from a guy that from 05-11 was screaming "CENA SUCKS, FIVE MOOVZ OF DOOM OMGZ" and was bitching about just about everything in wrestling. 

Every person who does that is essentially getting worked by the E' anyways, so I believe that an individual who does that is still in some sense of the word...A mark. It wasn't until The Miz beat Cena at Wrestlemania (Was cheering for the Miz) that I looked back and said "Wait....I was just cheering for one of the worst main event workers ever" and then Cena worked in some of my favourite matches ever later that year, and the rest is history. Love the guy now, it's just when you begin to look at individuals like Cena objectively, I find the results to be overwhelming.

Gonna throw out 50-41 in a few hours , which features a triple threat, a leg removing good time, a Wrestlemania main event, a man with 3 faces, and much more :hhh


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena doesn't get enough credit. He has some of the worst fucking haters. Cena and Trips for that matter but at least to AE marks HHH was part of that era. Cena doesn't even have that to fall back on lol. Just madness. If you look at the guy's match list and still say that he can't wrestle then you have a problem tbh. BUT HE WUZ CARIED IN ALL OF DEM DURRR


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Cena's biggest problem (well, for me at least) is sometimes his character is terrible and how his feuds are booked and that in-turn takes some of the attention away from the angles and matches he has been involved with. Trust me, I enjoyed most of his main event matches in the long 2007 WWE Title run and at the same time it was one of the most annoying runs to watch on TV from week to week. It is a mixed bag with Cena for me really.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I feel the same as Clique when it comes to Cena. Horrible booking, lame dull character... yet he's an incredible worker and can have great matches and has been doing so for quite a few years now. Its just hard to want to watch his matches when everything else surrounding them is a load of shit .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena, as a character, has given me many a headache over the years, especially in recent times where I actually started to borderline hate him for a little bit lol. But when he turns it on he's untouchable most times and one of my favorite guys to watch.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cena in the ring is awesome. Other than most of his matches with Orton and some throwaway stuff, I really like his work. It's his character I don't like and really haven't at any point. He can bust out a good promo at times though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Cena doesn't get enough credit. He has some of the worst fucking haters. Cena and Trips for that matter but at least to AE marks HHH was part of that era. Cena doesn't even have that to fall back on lol. Just madness. If you look at the guy's match list and still say that he can't wrestle then you have a problem tbh. BUT HE WUZ CARIED IN ALL OF DEM DURRR


Word. I was having an argument with this idiot on youtube the other day and he just never seemed to get it. For everything I say, he would randomly start rambling about some stupid Indy match and kept saying that Cena was carried in every good match he's had. He had the nerve to blame Cena for the hip toss in the match with Mr. Kennedy where he tore his pectoral muscle even though Kennedy sandbagged on that one. His haters are just plain stupid and have some sort of brain problems. They whine about how he only knows five moves but as soon as he try something new, they chant "You still suck". If I am at an event, I will boo him for his character, but to those that say "You can't wrestle"... just fuck off!

And your feelings on Cena mirror mine perfectly. I am a big fan of the guy, enough to place him in my top 5, but his character is so damn horrible, I just can't stand him to an extent. Otherwise he's a great wrestler with plenty of charisma and the best mic skills in the biz today. I don't know if anyone remembers it, but post-Extreme Rules, I went on some lengthy anti-Cena rants that made me look worse than his biggest haters ever have. I was just straight up pissed off at the bullshit they were doing with him and his "good guy" crap. I've relaxed on that big time ever since.

And for those that care, Great American Bash 04 review coming later tonight! Now I no longer have to be jealous of Starbuck's 2004 PPV collection!


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

The reason people don't like is wrestling is a) they're haters and b) he's unorthodox. He doesn't have 50 suplexes but he's still a damn fine worker. My only problem is he has a bit of Angle in him in that his selling is kinda bad. He's been having this trend more recently, but part of me thinks that's cause he wants a break and doesn't give a fuck right now. I mean after he "won" that Punk match his celebration was ridiculous.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I would take an average quality Cena main event over pretty much anything Davey Richard has ever done in singles competition.

At times Cena can sell poorly but most of the time he's spot on.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I was on a Shoot phase the past 3 days so here's what I've gotten to

Timeline 97- Great stuff, surprised they skipped over some things though (Bret vs the Patriot). 

Cornette Youshoot- Fucking great, amazing how he and Russo could be on "speaking terms" after this one. I couldn't stop laughing at some of the shit he said, watched all I think 6 hours of it including the lost questions. Worst part of it was the offthemarkshow.com guys, what a bunch of fucking jabronis. :lmao at Cornette getting pissed off at them, can't blame him

Gabe guest booker- Yawn, turned it off after about 20 minutes

Raven guest booker- Started off slow, but then he picked it up. Didn't have notes (like Russo), so I can cut him some slack

Sheik ring roast- Jimmy Graham and Bundy fucking flopped, lol at Muraco going up there and just praising everyone. Highlights were Backland, the comedians besides Graham, Volkoff, Blair getting bitchslapped, and Hall's drunken rage (even though it was for a good reason he did that)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cena's selling is a weird one. On one hand, I think he can act too tired when he hasn't been worked over that much. On the other hand, he can pop out of nowhere and have a pretty annoying version of the Hulk Up. Still, he's definitely at his best working from the bottom and has pretty great short-term selling. 

Can't say I'm a big fan of Cena on offense; he has a lot of stuff that doesn't look that good. Hate his suplex. If he had 50 suplex variations he'd probably suck at throwing all of them, so I'm glad he works within his limitations. Punches aren't too good (to the face, anyway, I like it when he fires away at a mid-section). He should never work a hold unless it's a headlock. To bad he's got an STF for a submission.

He has gotten better at countering stuff since mid last year. I don't think countering stuff is really all that necessary in a match, but sometimes he'd try it anyway like at WrestleMania 26 where I remember a really shitty sunset flip Batista Bomb counter or something like that. Overall the guy's a really good worker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*The Great American Bash 2004:*

John Cena vs RVD vs Booker T vs René Duprée - ***
- A decent opener with some nice back-and-forth between four solid midcard talents at this point and Cena retains the US title.

Luther Reigns vs Charlie Haas - **
- Filler. I mean the reason this match happened was because Charlie spoke to Cena backstage after his match. :lol This match is just one-notch above a squash match for up and comer, Reigns.

Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero - ***1/2
- A high speed cruiserweight match and the type that makes this division so entertaining. Great back and forth and they are given plenty of time to work with and both deliver as usual!

Kenzo Suzuki vs Billy Gunn - *1/2
- Filler once again.

Sable vs Torrie Wilson - *1/2
- They get far too much time for such a meaningless match and what's up with Sable flip-flopping between face and heel status?

Mordecai vs Hardcore Holly - **
- Mordecai's character is pretty interesting and his theme is pretty cool but this is the *third* filler on the PPV card and fourth if you count Sable/Torrie. The entire 'story' for this is some random backstage fight they had the Smackdown before. Just a squash match of sorts for Mordecai to establish himself, that's all.

Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - ***3/4
- Weird stipulation with the Texas Bullrope thing but it ended up being very entertaining. I had no idea how this match worked coming into it but I can say I enjoyed this match although the stipulation should just remain a rarity. Screwjob finish of sorts when Eddie looks like he has won it until "Mr. Angle" bursts his bubble and announces JBL as the new WWE Champion because his shoulder his the turnbuckle first.

The Undertaker vs Dudley Boyz - **1/2
- The match itself is pretty uninteresting. There's more focus on Heyman/Bearer/Taker and what will take place by the cement truck than in the ring. Also it was stupid having Taker go through all of that to save Bearer if he was going to bury him within the cement anyways.

*Overall:* ** out of ***** (Two good matches and a decent opener then the rest of the card just sucks. Roster seems so thin that they had to get in three unannounced matches! That speaks for itself, this is much like a modern PPV card with only a couple of storylines and the rest just being completely random and time killers. Shit PPV although the cruiserweight and bullrope matches are recommended.)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:/ at Taker/Dudleyz main eventing that show over JBL/Eddie. Could have put that in the middle of the show and gave it the same impact.

I like the bullrope match though. Don't remember Chavo/Mysterio but I've heard good things. That US title match has intrigued me but I've never caught it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Dudley Boys is a fuckin DUD. Eddie/JBL deserved better than being jipped just to have Undertaker kill off Paul Bearer.

(that's legit as some people know Taker is my guy)

I'd advise skipping the 4 Way United States title, Brye. Nothing special at all. In fact, it kind of sucks considering who is involved. Mysterio vs Chavo is a must. OWNS.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Brye said:


> :/ at Taker/Dudleyz main eventing that show over JBL/Eddie. Could have put that in the middle of the show and gave it the same impact.
> 
> I like the bullrope match though. Don't remember Chavo/Mysterio but I've heard good things. That US title match has intrigued me but I've never caught it.


I think they wanted the Taker/Dudley's match to close the show because of the climatic finish with him burying his manager, Paul Bearer. I dont think it would have seemed as impactful if it were in the middle/begining half of the show but that's just my opinion.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Always wondered why Taker/Dudleys main evented. Made no sense to me, and honestly still doesn't because the WWE Title match was built up as a main event and should've been the main event.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Trying to murder Paul Bearer wouldn't seem right to have been in the middle of the show, only real reason that makes any kind of sense for that match to main event .

Original plans for Undertaker after he returned as the Dead Man in 04 was to feud with Lesnar, but he left. So... Booker T and The Dudley Boys were the next in line? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That sounds like a good segway for me to say: too bad we never got anything with Undertaker vs Eddie. Instead Taker got put against John Heidenreich to end the year. Wonderful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, Undertaker got stuck with Heidenreich, and Eddie got stuck with the likes of Luther Reigns. Bah.

That being said, I thought the Undertaker/Heidenreich match at Survivor Series was really fucking good. No need for it to continue after that though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I call it Heidenreich's best match. Still don't care for it though. Taker did his best to make it work.

Eddie at least got a good match from Luther at No Mercy.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Eddie could get a good match out of anyone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't recall any of the Eddie/Luther matches being good .

He struggled to get anything watchable out of Angle too aside from their 2/3 falls .


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Gab '04:
When Heyman and Taker can't make an angle work, you know it's SHIT. Allegedly Taker told the Dudleyz after the match: "Boys I think we've been ribbed"


----------



## Cally033 (Aug 7, 2012)

what ratings out of 10 would you give the rise and fall of wcw/ecw and mick foley greatest hits and misses


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> That sounds like a good segway for me to say: too bad we never got anything with Undertaker vs Eddie. Instead Taker got put against John Heidenreich to end the year. Wonderful.


Pure stupidity from WWE again. I still can't wrap my mind around why Undertaker never got to work a real program with either Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit (whatever that was in 2000 doesn't count) even though they spent plenty of time being part of the same roster. 2004 was the perfect time for Taker to go one-on-one with Eddie but instead they were stuck with rookies and in both 2003 and 2006, Taker and Benoit were perfectly set for a Wrestlemania match with each other considering they had nothing interesting to do but instead all the potential was wasted in two different meaningless matches.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I know this isn't a singles match but Taker did have a great triple threat match against Kurt and Benoit.

I don't think it would have been a good idea to put Eddie against Taker in 2004, it would have a little random tbh. it should have happened when Eddie turned heel in 2005.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I agree, if Eddie were still aound  he should have been heel until Wrestlemania 22 where he would feud with Taker heading into the event, cause god knows that Mark Henry casket match didn't hold up and was a random feud cause no one else around at the time was able to feud with him. Eddie would have been perfect, I always pictured him going around and stealing the urn :lmao still thuogh another good one would have been him and Shawn Michaels, after them two probably eliminating each other at the SmackDown vs Raw survivor series match a few months earlier... he even qualified for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Wrestlemania 22 should have been Taker vs Benoit with Eddie vs HBK being the interpromotional dream match. Of course that didn't happen since Eddie passed away and Benoit was stuck in midcard hell while Taker tried his best to get a decent match out of Mizark but whatever. Eddie vs Taker could have even been a random TV match in 2005 when Eddie was heel. Just a one-on-one match that lasts quite a bit! We already got something similar with HHH/Eddie on the Raw draft show in 2004 and that was good enough for me.

Just thinking about it, so many great programs did Eddie miss out on. Feuds with Taker, HHH, HBK, Orton and so on. And lol @ him stealing the urn, wasn't that one of the storylines for Smackdown vs Raw 2006? Then Eddie passed away the day the game was released. (or a day after)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I would have settled for a random TV match around December 04 when they were building to the 4 way between Undertaker, Eddie, Booker and JBL.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

If Taker faced Benoit at WM22, he'd only be 19-0 now.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

SVR 2007 had a bad ass Undertaker/Benoit feud. Seems like something they would do, especially in 2006.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> If Taker faced Benoit at WM22, he'd only be 19-0 now.


Or maybe it would magically cancel the Benoit tragedy since Chris is already resting in peace by 2007? 

But no, they wouldn't deduct the number. Instead of naming opponents, they would just say "Undertaker has defeated twenty other men in the past at Wrestlemania". And at the very best, there would have possibly been a quick shot of Taker tombstoning Benoit then moving on to the other matches. And I think they would also release a DVD with the match included but similar to Satan's Prison, they'd handicap the commentary and mute anything positive about Benoit.

And the SVR 2007 feud is pretty funny. In Taker's words "Your grueling family will have no one but you to blame when the inevitable occurs" and then Benoit looks around in a "Oh shit, did somebody hear that?" way. I've heard that Benoit along with Angle and Henry were the three candidates to face Taker at WM22 but for some dumb reason, Vince went with the worst option.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

lol, yeah, obviously a number wouldn't be deducted. The 20-0 streak DVD wouldn't be able to claim they have all matches though.

I understand why they didn't go with Angle, and that's because Angle didn't want to end the streak. Don't see why they couldn't have given Taker the title though since Angle ended up losing the strap anyway, but it's whatever. They had an all-time classic at NWO06... but damn that match would've looked nicer on a WM.

Why they didn't go with Benoit though? Beats me.


----------



## ForestCrush (Aug 18, 2012)

Maybe they didnt see Benoit as a believable threat to Taker's streak. They went with a "beast" in hopes people would think that Henry had a chance


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 50-41*


50.(Tie)









"This one's for my father..."

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules Match ; Extreme Rules 2012) : ******











"I HATE YOU TOO!"

John Cena vs Batista (Last Man Standing ; Extreme Rules 2010) : ******


49.









"This match will end by MY hand"

Steve Austin vs Dude Love (W/ Referee Vince Mcmahon ; Over the Edge 1998) : ******


48.









"I'm gonna make the Rock SQUEAL!"

The Rock vs Chris Benoit (Fully Loaded 2000) : ******


47.









"This Sunday, The KING of KINGS...Goes back on his throne"

John Cena vs Edge vs Triple H (Backlash 2006) : ******


46.









"THAT'S THE MOST VICIOUS JACKKNIFE I'VE EVER SEEN!"

Shawn Michaels vs Diesel (No Holds Barred ; In Your House Good Friends Better Enemies) : ******


45.









"You just can't win the big one Jeff"

Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (No Mercy 2008) : ******


44.









"BAH GAWD! THE RATTLESNAKE IS WHIPPIN' THE GAME'S ASS!"

Triple H vs Steve Austin (No Mercy 1999) : ***** 1/4*


43.









"Damnit, what will it take to keep these two men down ?"

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII) : ***** 1/4*


42.









"He's chopping the big man down to his size!"

Bret Hart vs Diesel (King of the Ring 1994) : ***** 1/4*


41.









"Hogan's coming back! What a show of sportsmanship!"

Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI) : ***** 1/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So are you doing based this on personal enjoyment or based on rating? I ask because of the **** Cena/HBK being in front the **** 1/4 Austin/HHH.

What's everyone's opinions on *Royal Rumble 2012?* Thinkin about pickin up the blu ray for a real cheap price. Figure Punk/Ziggler and the Rumble would make it worth it, plus the blu ray extras.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oops, had to go edit that back that time. Just a typo, but thanks for pointing it out as I'm basing it on what I feel to be the greatest WWE Championship matches and not necessarily my favourites.

Speaking of Royal Rumble 2012 , if my list was the top 101 WWE Championship matches ever, Punk-Ziggler would definitely be on the list. That's actually an example of a favourite little match of mine as I just love it and think it's just another great WWE Championship match of CM Punk. When I do my honourable mentions before the top 5, that's definitely going to be in there for sure.

STARZ for RR 12*

Bryan-Henry-Show Cage : *****
Cena-Kane : *** 3/4*
Divas Match : *Don't Remember...Who Cares?*
Punk-ZIGGLEZZZ : **** 1/2*
Rumble : **** 1/4*

Wrote a in-depth review of it once upon a time, but then my computer crashed and...YEAH. MOTN is Punk-Ziggler, and the Rumble is kind of a fail until we get to Sheamus-Jericho (which was one of the best fucking endings to a Rumble match ever). The cage match is short but it's fucking AWESOME and I absolutely adore it, Cena-Kane is a pretty good match as well. Not the best PPV ever, but definitely not the worst.

*6/10*


----------



## OldschoolHero (Sep 1, 2008)

Oliver-94 said:


> I know this isn't a singles match but Taker did have a great triple threat match against Kurt and Benoit.
> 
> I don't think it would have been a good idea to put Eddie against Taker in 2004, it would have a little random tbh. it should have happened when Eddie turned heel in 2005.


Problem is, Eddie was turning face in late 05. Only reason he turned heel was to put Rey over so Rey could move up to main eventer. People think Rey only got a huge push because of Eddies passing, but truth is he was slowly being built up for it. I think the death just made it get rushed....kinda off topic I know...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWE Championship stuff: Austin/Foley and Michaels/Diesel would probably be in my top ten. Actually since this is PPV only they'd definitely be in the top ten and probably be in the top five. I haven;t watched Hogan/Warrior in a while, but that'd probably be pretty damn high as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Any Chicagoans going to CM Punk's DVD premier on Thursday? I might go if I can get off of work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker's last 6 WrestleMania matches:

WrestleMania 25 ~ *****
WrestleMania 28 ~ ****3/4
WrestleMania 26 ~ ****1/2
WrestleMania 24 ~ ****1/4
WrestleMania 23 ~ ****
WrestleMania 27 ~ ***

The match at 27 kind of sucked. Considering the curve of the other ratings.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Recently watched Taker/HBK 2, and I forgot how fucking awful Striker was on commentary. If JR was commentating, it probably would have been a ***** to me instead of **** 1/2, that's how bad he was. 

HBK kicks out of a tombstone WM25: I AM NOT BELIEVING THIS!!! I'VE JUST HAD AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE!!!!
HBK kicks out of a second tombstone WM26: OHHH!

like, what the fuck?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Striker's always been a horrible commentator. Shitty "oh-ho-HOOO!"s everywhere and random I Know Stuff About Wrestling BS. He's really not that good at anything and it's kind of surprising that people actually liked him. The highlight of his career were the matches he had with Darren Young last year.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

On the topic of commentators, I never found the appeal of Joey Styles. Maybe it's just me and my very little knowlege of original ECW, (only saw him in his WWE work) but I just was never really a fan, his OH MY GOD was like a pig squealing and he barely has any insight into the match or what to add.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

GOAT commentating teams in order

JR/Heel King
Brain/Monsoon
JBL/Cole
everyone else


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't let commentary affect my ratings, no matter how bad. If bad commentary did affect my ratings, I probably wouldn't have rated anything over *** in the last 4 years or so .

Joey Styles... I quite like him, but only his WWE run lol.

Top 3 play by play:

1. JR
2. Lance Russell
3. Gordon Solie

Colour:

1. Bobby Heenan
2. Jesse Ventura
3. JBL


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Striker's always been a horrible commentator. Shitty "oh-ho-HOOO!"s everywhere and random I Know Stuff About Wrestling BS. He's really not that good at anything and it's kind of surprising that people actually liked him. The highlight of his career were the matches he had with Darren Young last year.


I like Striker when he's doing Superstars and midcard matches. He's very good at explaining what's going on in the ring and trying to give you a reason to care about the guys wrestling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Bad Guy said:


> On the topic of commentators, I never found the appeal of Joey Styles. Maybe it's just me and my very little knowlege of original ECW, (only saw him in his WWE work) but I just was never really a fan, his OH MY GOD was like a pig squealing and he barely has any insight into the match or what to add.


I really like Joey Styles and that's one thing I'm looking forward to when I start watching Raw around 2005 or whenever it was he became part of the announcing team along with Coach and face Lawler. Just something about his voice and the way he sells exciting moments that I like listening to.

And KingofKings, I can't believe Fully Loaded 2000 only got the #48 spot. That match is at least top 20 and rated around ****1/2 or ****3/4 for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gordon Solie & Jesse Ventura are probably the best colour commentators of all time. "and he hits a beautiful looking SUPLAY" Awesome. Ventura is just fucking great, explains every little detail in the match and adds so much insight. JBL and J.R. are probably the most entertaining. Striker's pretty hit and miss for me. Sometimes he's really on point and others he's just stupid and annoying.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Let me just say the Matt Strikers commentary during HBK-Taker WM 26 absolutely ruins the match. Even though he's probably feed his lines, he sounds like a retard and says the dumbest shit. Awful.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Well, I guess we can all agree on one thing? The worst commentator of all time had to be Lord Alfred Hayes.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> I like Striker when he's doing Superstars and midcard matches. He's very good at explaining what's going on in the ring and trying to give you a reason to care about the guys wrestling.


Yes, exactly. He explains things like what the move being applied feels like, what happened the last time wrestler x was in a similar situation. And when you're talking about CAW #154667 on Superstars, it really adds to them.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Let me just say the Matt Strikers commentary during HBK-Taker WM 26 absolutely ruins the match. Even though he's probably feed his lines, he sounds like a retard and says the dumbest shit. Awful.


I actually find Cole worse. For what's supposed to be one of the most important matches in WWE history, he sure doesn't seem to care. I really wish JR would've been there. His call the year before really showed how a commentator can help a match become from great to special.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I think McMahon deserves some praise as a commentator, I know he isn't GOAT but he should be in the same sentence and up there with the others, while he is mostly forgotten about because he is best known for his GM days and his BOSS gimmick with Austin, he has some memorable commentary moments too from the early - mid 90's in the WWF including THE BOYHOOD DREAM HAS COME TRUE FOR SHWAN MICHAELS ... I really liked McMahon on the announce table.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

The Bad Guy said:


> I think McMahon deserves some praise as a commentator, I know he isn't GOAT but he should be in the same sentence and up there with the others, while he is mostly forgotten about because he is best known for his GM days and his BOSS gimmick with Austin, he has some memorable commentary moments too from the early - mid 90's in the WWF including THE BOYHOOD DREAM HAS COME TRUE FOR SHWAN MICHAELS ... I really liked McMahon on the announce table.


I found it funny that I only started to tolerate McMahon about a year prior prior to him giving up commentary altogether in 1997.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 40-31*


40.









"All the titles are on the line, winners take all!"

Steve Austin/Triple H vs The Undertaker/Kane (Backlash 2001) : ***** 1/4*


39.









"Eddie just stole one on the grandest stage of them all!"

Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XX) : ***** 1/4*


38.









"Cena, I smell like smoke because I've been through fire, and this Sunday, YOU WILL say I QUIT!"

John Cena vs JBL (I Quit Match ; Judgment Day 2005) : ***** 1/4*


37.









"If John Cena loses, he goes to Smackdown..."

Edge vs John Cena (TLC Match ; Unforgiven 2006) : ***** 1/4*


36.









"Lesnar is airborne!"

Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show (Stretcher Match ; Judgment Day 2003 : ******


35.









"This Sunday, brother I will beat you again!"

Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Cage Match ; Summerslam 1994) : ***** 1/4*


34.









"Michaels got the Crossface on Orton!"

Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 2007) : ******


33.









"This match is to be RESTARTED!"

Shawn Michaels vs Vader (Summerslam 1996) : ******


32.









"The Mega Powers Explode!"

Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V) : ***** 1/4*


31.









"The heart of the Game! He will not stay down!"

Triple H vs Randy Orton (Last Man Standing ; No Mercy 2007) : ***** 1/4*


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Coolquip said:


> I actually find Cole worse. For what's supposed to be one of the most important matches in WWE history, he sure doesn't seem to care. I really wish JR would've been there. His call the year before really showed how a commentator can help a match become from great to special.


When Cole isn't being an intolerable dick he's generally fine. But for all the great quotes from great matches we can pluck out for JR, I'm struggling to think of a single one for Cole. 

It's like he has a script of cliches to use. I guess Cole Bingo wasn't far wrong.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Any one here ever got anything from Ioffer.com I have my eye on a 22 disc Dynamite Kid set, but I'm not sure how trust worthy the website is?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I got the 2010 Superstars set on ioffer and it came and everything went fine. But I think it kinda depends on the person.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Brye said:


> I got the 2010 Superstars set on ioffer and it came and everything went fine. But I think it kinda depends on the person.


Cheers Brye, It looks like an ok site i just wanted some other peoples opinions before i try it out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, this came rather fast...

*Vengeance 2004:*

Jonathan Coachman/Garrison Cade vs Tajiri/Rhyno - *3/4
- Worthless filler is worthless filler. I have to laugh at the green mist and every time Coach gets it, though.

Chris Jericho vs Batista - **1/4
- Pretty boring to be fair. Hell, now I'm done with the PPV, I don't even remember a thing from it. That's how unmemorable this was.

Ric Flair/Eugene vs La Resistance - **1/4
- A bit funny when Eugene goes mental and causes the DQ along with an awesome Stunner and Rock Bottom but otherwise, I'm getting bored of his act by this point. Plus his imitations of Ric Flair are terrible as he literally sounds like a barking dog when doing the "WOOOOOOOO!" thing.

Matt Hardy vs Kane - **3/4
- A decent match for how long it lasts and the ending was a bit of a surprise as Lita distracted Kane long enough for Matt to hit him with the chair and win.

Randy Orton vs Edge - ***3/4
- Pretty great match. Orton's in-ring work has improved by this point and Edge is starting to shake off the ring rust from his 14 month absence. A few interesting things about this match. Firstly, I can't help but notice Orton having a boner at the start but the match manages to be good enough that I forget about it completely.  Secondly, Orton is the heel and Edge is the face but the crowd reaction is pretty much the opposite. Orton gets cheered and Edge is booed but somehow, Orton manages to turn the crowd against him by yelling at them that he doesn't need their support and when he loses, he manages to pull off a great heel act by pretending to cry to a bunch of boos from the crowd. At over 25 minutes, the last 7 or so minutes get very exciting and the crowd truly comes to life after the slow start.

Victoria vs Molly Holly - **
- A #1 contender match at a PPV and no title defense, wow, how logical! Anyways, this is pretty short and there's not much to remember. A nice over-the-top rope dive by Victoria and a great superkick to end the match but otherwise, Molly spends most of the match time working on her shoulder and using restholds, so this is pretty skippable.

Chris Benoit vs HHH - ***3/4
- A great match with some good mat wrestling and some small memorable spots but it is kind of ruined by the over-dramatic ending with Eugene. He has no business in the main event and the amount of attention given to what he's going to do and the lack of it given to the World Champion is a disgrace. The "Eugene sucks" chants come there towards the end which continues onto SummerSlam. I enjoyed the match but the end takes away from it.

*Overall:* **1/2 out of ***** (Two great matches and the rest are subpar. Might be the weakest Raw PPV in 2004 so far which might exactly be as bad as expected since Backlash & Bad Blood were both pretty good. This one is below average because there's very little to make up for the amount of filler and time killers that fail to deliver. Still, I recommend the IC & WHC matches.)


----------



## FEEDSTEENFEED (Aug 14, 2012)

I got the chance to watch most of the CM Punk "Best In The World" DVD today. It's fantastic and I think everybody is going to love it. Great documentary, and covers a lot of his IWA and ROH days. I stopped watching right when it was getting in 'Summer Of Punk' last year and i'll be finishing it probably later on tonight or tomorrow. Kofi Kingston, Chris Hero, Paul Heyman, Triple H, Michael Hayes, Lita, Ace Steel, Colt Cabana, Joey Mercury and Jim Ross are the main interviews in the DVD.


----------



## Mr. Fluffykins (Sep 30, 2012)

FEEDSTEENFEED said:


> I got the chance to watch most of the CM Punk "Best In The World" DVD today. It's fantastic and I think everybody is going to love it. Great documentary, and covers a lot of his IWA and ROH days. I stopped watching right when it was getting in 'Summer Of Punk' last year and i'll be finishing it probably later on tonight or tomorrow. Kofi Kingston, Chris Hero, Paul Heyman, Triple H, Michael Hayes, Lita, Ace Steel, Colt Cabana, Joey Mercury and Jim Ross are the main interviews in the DVD.


Colt Cabana on a wwe dvd???? INSTANT BUY. Does it discuss a lot of his SES wwe work and his 2008-2010 title runs and feuds with Hardy, taker, etc??


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Picked up Rock Vs. Cena and it was a great watch especially the Film Cut (you're basically watching Rock Vs. Cena documentary style. Cameramen are either in the stands with the fans or outside the ropes. Commentary is still there. Funny enough, they cut out MGK and Florida performing in this version). although I was disappointed that WWE didn't include everything from the feud (misleading if you ask me).

*Missing from the set*:

John Cena's 2nd rap (which wasn't that good so no biggie).





The Rock's From The Heart Promo (I was another one of those Rock fans turned haters until I heard this promo then found out about the fallout between Rock and WWE because of Vince turning down Rock's part-time contract request. This was one of the best parts from the whole feud and they didn't bother to include it!)





The Rock's Facebook Promo (A.k.a. the Wonder Woman Promo)

The music video tributes for Cena and Rock shown at the Elimination Chamber 2012. (Fu**ing stupid to not have them since the music performances were kept intact for the WM 28 match.)

Oh, they cut out Rock's lyrics about Cena cheating on his wife during his concert.

- Vic


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Vic Capri said:


> Oh, they cut out Rock's lyrics about Cena cheating on his wife during his concert


Didn't know about this :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 30-21*


30.









"Austin's tapping! We have a NEW WWF Champion!"

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2001) : ***** 1/4*


29.









"STONE COLD! STONE COLD!"

Triple H vs The Rock (Backlash 2000) : ***** 1/4*


28.









"OWEN'S THROWING IN THE TOWEL!"

Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund (Survivor Series 1994) : ***** 1/4*


27.









"Jumping Tombstone in the casket!"

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Casket Match ; Royal Rumble 1998) : ***** 1/4*


26.









"Angle has Lesnar caught! Can Lesnar hold on?"

Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2003) : ***** 1/4*


25.









"You will RESPECT me"

CM Punk vs John Cena (Night of Champions 2012) : ***** 1/4*


24.









"Oh my god! Lesnar may have broken his neck!"

Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX) : ***** 1/4*


23.









"WHAT A REMATCH!"

Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (Summerslam 1992) : ***** 1/4*


22.









"UNDERTAKER with the Angle slam!"

The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle vs The Rock (Vengeance 2002) : ***** 1/2*


21.









"Vader's cut is NASTY!"

Bret Hart vs The Undertaker vs Steve Austin vs Vader (In Your House Final Four) : ***** 1/2*

Discuss. Mainly about how much of an idiot I am for putting last month's PPV match in the top 25


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Don't think I've ever seen that casket match but considering how great HBK/Taker matches are, I'm sure it's awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

A couple of random ratings:

Smackdown 15/7/2004: JBL/Eddie Guerrero (Steel Cage) - ***1/2
Smackdown 14/4/2006: JBL/Chris Benoit (Steel Cage) - ***1/2

I think KingofKings has too many matches from recent memory that need some time before being worthy of being ranked so high outside a few exceptions such as MITB 2011. I wouldn't have the NoC match anywhere on the list not just because it's recent, but because it also has its flaws, namely the finisher fest at the end. And I did mention it before, but Rock/Benoit FL2000 being at 48 is too low as that is truly a classic match-up.

And look out, we're at page number 666!


----------



## arcslnga (Nov 4, 2010)

Amazon released the new DVD art for Night of Champions. Pretty epic if you ask me...








By seeing this pic it makes it look like CM Punk beat Cena clean.

Sorry if this was already posted =p


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love that Eddie/JBL cage match. Have it around ****.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Best big man/little man chemistry? Example matches?

I think Rey/Lesnar have a case for it. There match in San Diego in late '04 is a good example.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Taker-Michaels count then it's obviously them..... Greatest chemistry of all time as well 

When I think CHEMISTRY, I think multiple matches, but when I think about great big man vs little man matches... I think of Vader vs Dustin from the Clash. What a fucking match.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Coolquip said:


> Best big man/little man chemistry? Example matches?
> 
> I think Rey/Lesnar have a case for it. There match in San Diego in late '04 is a good example.


not sure if it counts but Benjamin vs. Evolution on Raw had a great serious of matches, man he was talented and over, a shame he didn't become anything mroe than an MITB Spot Monkey.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Punk DVD arrived :cheer


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Guerrero/JBL if that counts?
Vader/Sting
Rey/Lesnar
Big Show/Angle if that counts


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I love that Eddie/JBL cage match. Have it around ****.


I think the commentary became stupid when Angle arrived posing as "El Gran Luchador" (this character is a comedian). He Angle Slams Eddie but they absolutely no sell it on commentary, then when he escapes the cage, Eddie takes off his shirt and you can clearly see his back tattoo but they are still like "OMG WHO IS THAT?" until he puts his shirt back on and his face is finally exposed.

That top of the cage Frog Splash was crazy!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> Don't think I've ever seen that casket match but considering how great HBK/Taker matches are, I'm sure it's awesome.






Coolquip said:


> I think Rey/Lesnar have a case for it. There match in San Diego in late '04 is a good example.


Was there for that. Awesome.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

What are the best Smackdown 2003 matches?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

David/Goliath chemistry varies depending on what sort of 'David' you're after. Sting/Vader is pretty much the blueprint to that sort of style IMO but if you consider David vs Goliath to mean 'big vs small' then Lesnar/Mysterio seems more appropriate, as Sting can hardly be considered a small man against most opponents. Both have insane chemistry however and the Dustin/Vader matches from 1992 and 1994 are tremendous, I know *sterling* considers the 1994 bout to be the best WCW match ever according to his top 100 ballot he submitted: which was all kinds of awesome.

Lawler/Bigelow was an excellent example of how Lawler can work a David vs Goliath formula, and Takayama in All Japan/NOAH has had some excellent matches under the same formula due to his sheer size and incredible offence. Takayama and Tenryu's singles matches in NOAH against KENTA are probably KENTA's two greatest matches not involving Danielson and they're straight out of the David vs Goliath story.

Vader is probably the best big man wrestler to work that sort of style, given he has the offence to make anyone a biable underdog regardless of their size as well as the supreme agility to bump big and make his opponent's comeback offence look spectacular and draw the viewer into believing Vader is up against the ropes. It doesn't hurt that he's also incredibly smart in laying out a lot of his matches so he achieves the perfect balance between making himself look vulnerable to the point that you can be invested in a possible upset, whilst still looking like the baddest motherfucker on the planet when he's on offence.

Come to think of it, Danielson/Henry really have all the makings of producing a stellar match if they ever get 15 minutes or more. The November Cage match bell to bell was one of the best matches in the company last year and that didn't get past 9 minutes.

Also new topic, what's everyone's current (screw all time since we're all likely to change our minds from time to time) favourite style/formula to a match? By this I mean WWE Main Event Wrestling, an Indy sprint, a Lucha 2/3 falls Title match (the classic 80s-90s Lucha here, not the post 2000 garbage), a southern tag, a southern brawl, Puro Main Event match etc etc.

I'd have to say over the past week and a bit I'm leaning more towards the British World of Sport style of wrestling, especially when they replace the swank matwork and add in some story and developing hatred in the match. Its amazing how well the WOS style was able to consistently produce these awesome matches filled with supreme matwork and hold trading, but that occasionally would produce some subtle stiffness and escalating violence that would be evident throughout the match and culminate near the end.

I recently watched Jim Breaks vs Adrian Street from 1972 (on youtube) and it was a stunning match, nearly on par with the famous Steve Grey vs Clive Myers bout from 1977 which is widely considered the best WOS bout. Both Street and Breaks are heels who like to mix in underhanded tactics in amongst their excellent chain wrestling, and you get some really violent and creative arm work as well as moments featuring fish hooks, gouging, biting, wrist manipulation, stiff forearms to the bridge of the nose etc. They managed to add enough of these heelish tactics in between the largely clean wrestling to slowly make each round (there's 6 in total) gradually get more and more heated throughout with both guys tiring of each other's existence by the end. Felt like a precursor to what you see from Finlay and William Regal.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Anything involving Lesnar/Benoit/Angle/Rey/Eddie I'm guessing.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Benoit/Lesnar, Lensar/Mysterio, Mysterio/Tajiri, Mysterio/Hardy, Lesnar/Angle Ironman are all good shouts, but personally I consider either Angle/Taker or Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT 5/22 to be the match of the year. I'd call the Angle/Taker bout 'better' but I'd probably still opt for the tag in the end, since it features a tremendous Eddie performance and is just an all round splendid STF match and is definitely the match I'd rather watch again (no slight on Angle/Taker here).

Christ I've currently got the 5/22 tag on my current list of top 100 matches worldwide from 2000-2009, _that's_ how much I dig it. Ya dig?

Watch the entire Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT series btw, its a really overlooked series from that time but they produce 3 top quality matches even if the Ladder match from Judgement Day is likely the more famous of their series.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 20-11*

20.









"Welcome back Kurt Angle!"

Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2003) : ***** 1/2*


19.









"OH MY GOD! UMAGA'S FROTHING FROM THE MOUTH!"

John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing ; Royal Rumble 2007) : ***** 1/2*


18.









"BEST IN THE WOOORRRLLLDDDDDD!"

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : ***** 1/2*


17. (TIE)









"The Bloody rematch continues!"

Bret Hart vs The British Bulldog (In Your House V) : ***** 1/2*










"Bret Hart has the small package SYNCHED!"

Diesel vs Bret Hart (Survivor Series 1995) : ***** 1/2*


16.









"More technical then the previous month's matchup"

CM Punk vs John Cena (Summerslam 2011) : ***** 1/2*


15.









"MY GAWD! Cactus Jack has lost his mind!"

Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Hell in a Cell ; No Way Out 2000) : ***** 1/2*


14.









"Now BACK from the dead...."

The Rock vs Triple H (Ironman Match ; Judgment Day 2000) : ***** 1/2*


13.









"Eddie Guerrero is a POSSESSED man tonight!"

Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (Judgment Day 2004) : ***** 1/2*


12.









"Listen to this crowd..Half on the Hitman's side...The other half supporting the Undertaker!"

Bret Hart vs The Undertaker (One Night Only 1997) : ***** 1/2*


11.









"When I see your old lady, I'm going to give her a kiss on those soft, moist lips...WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII) : ***** 1/2*



*AAANYYYWAYSSS*..... I have a few things that I need to address. *Choketodeath*, I love your shit man, but I don't like this perception that just because a match is older that it's necessarily better than a match of higher quality from a more recent time... I watched every single match on this list atleast twice, so when I rank matches I don't look at the years, I just go with what I believe is legitimately better. For instance, I believe that Rock/Benoit fans (mostly ROCK) vastly overrate Benoit/Rock. While it's a fucking awesome match, I can name close to 10 Benoit matches from 2004 that are better.

Sure there are alot of matches on this last from 11-12 , but that's because Punk's reign (workrate wise) has been better then about 90 percent of title reigns ever in terms of match quality. I can think about 2-3 reigns that are up there with it, but I'm not just going to discredit Punk because he's been putting on classic after classic RECENTLY. It's irrelevant to me when the match actually takes place, just whether or not it's a good match or not. I just hate it when people are hesitant to place a match in their top (insert number here) list because it happened recently. That'd be like me saying that (for those of you who watch the NFL) Cam Newton broke a ton of NFL rookie passing/rushing TD/Yard records , but we have to wait a few years before we compare it to other all time great rookie QB seasons. It's completely absurd.....For instance, two of my top five matches EVER have taken place in 09-12 (Taker-HBK WM matches).

To each his own I guess. I just don't like when we hold historical matches in higher regard JUST because they're historical. I've incoherently rambled on for long enough, so I guess I'm going to shut my mouth now. On a side not, I'd love to hear what you think of Punk's 11-12 WWE Championship matches and how they compare all time, as well as discuss 20-11 on my list and what could potentially be the top 10. LOVE YOU GUYS ! :vince


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

RR 92 (considered a title match) better be on this list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Kingofkings, I appreciate the reply and I understand the point you're trying to make. It may just be my mentality that for something to truly be a classic, it'll take a while unless the match is so good it's an instant. The most recent example of that would be Punk/Cena MITB 2011, Orton/Christian OTL 2011 and Undertaker/HHH WM28 (not a title match!).

As a huge Benoit mark, the match with The Rock is easily in my top 10 of his greatest matches and that says a lot about the quality of it. Maybe I just enjoy it a lot more, but there's some magic in that match that I absolutely love!



Segunda Caida said:


> Benoit/Lesnar, Lensar/Mysterio, Mysterio/Tajiri, Mysterio/Hardy, Lesnar/Angle Ironman are all good shouts, but personally I consider either Angle/Taker or Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT 5/22 to be the match of the year. I'd call the Angle/Taker bout 'better' but I'd probably still opt for the tag in the end, since it features a tremendous Eddie performance and is just an all round splendid STF match and is definitely the match I'd rather watch again (no slight on Angle/Taker here).
> 
> Christ I've currently got the 5/22 tag on my current list of top 100 matches worldwide from 2000-2009, _that's_ how much I dig it. Ya dig?
> 
> Watch the entire Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT series btw, its a really overlooked series from that time but they produce 3 top quality matches even if the Ladder match from Judgement Day is likely the more famous of their series.


These are pretty much all the top matches from 2003 on Smackdown but I got a few more. Undertaker/Cena a few weeks before SummerSlam and Cena/Benoit on the same night as Benoit/Lesnar.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Edit: Double post.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Fucking hell it's so hard to find any matches I wanna check out on Youtube. I've watched all my DVDs atm so I need to get more. Withdrawl symptoms! Anyone got a link to a good channel?


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Fucking hell it's so hard to find any matches I wanna check out on Youtube. I've watched all my DVDs atm so I need to get more. Withdrawl symptoms! Anyone got a link to a good channel?


What is it your looking for? i know a lot of channels that are full of Puro wrestler, i know some that have old nwa/wcw videos, I think i know a channal that has some old WWF coliseum videos on there. 

Tell me what your looking for I'll probably know a channel that has it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Fucking hell it's so hard to find any matches I wanna check out on Youtube. I've watched all my DVDs atm so I need to get more. Withdrawl symptoms! Anyone got a link to a good channel?


I had discovered the perfect channel that had all of 2003 but those scumbags terminated it. Try dailymotion, they should have more stuff available than youtube and if not, you might just have to download stuff or use DVDs.

Speaking of DLs, I have now every remaining Raw and SD from 2004 on my computer, finished DLing all Raw episodes from 2005 and 06, now it's time for Smackdown. Then it's on to the Attitude Era (1998-2002)!


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

11rob2k said:


> What is it your looking for? i know a lot of channels that are full of Puro wrestler, i know some that have old nwa/wcw videos, I think i know a channal that has some old WWF coliseum videos on there.
> 
> Tell me what your looking for I'll probably know a channel that has it.


Honestly just looked for Smackdown 2003 matches/episodes. The ones I was recommended in this thread a little while ago I searched and couldn't find anything.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Honestly just looked for Smackdown 2003 matches/episodes. The ones I was recommended in this thread a little while ago I searched and couldn't find anything.


Try dailymotion or downloading the year packs from Extreme Wrestling Torrent, you wont find much smackdown from 2002-2009 on Youtube at the minute.

If you haven't seen much smackdown from 2002-2009 i would say you need to get the year packs, Smackdown at that time was the best wrestling show on tv, if you haven't seem much of it you really need to go back and watch more.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Alright. What are these channels you know of? I'm interested to see what's on there.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

The Punk DVD arrived 2 days early, so I watched the doc as soon as I got in and it's fantastic, it's up there with the best docs the Wwe have produced, it's honest, it's interesting and it's well paced, loved the ammount of time his indie career got and the chapter on his struggles to get a fair shot while in OVW then ECW was great.

The special features were great aswell, never heard the fractured skull story and i would love to know the guy was he wanted to punch in the face( you'll know what I mean when you see it)

So while is ECW doc is likely the best they have ever done, this is certainly in the top 3 for me, now roll on the matches!


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Alright. What are these channels you know of? I'm interested to see what's on there.


ok,

Classic1pw is a puro channel their in the middle of uploading a career history of The Great Muta
http://www.youtube.com/user/CLASSiC1PW

BrilliantWWFUploader has a few ppvs and WWF Coliseum videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4pka_m5AW4

HereComesTheAx had a bit of everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eatlUb981Ds

KingsRoadJapan has AJPW good wrestling if you don't mind not being able to understand a word they say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Anwqz06vHQ

Missing5THHorseman is nwa i think might be wcw
http://www.youtube.com/user/Missing5thHorseman

ProWrestlingAARK is Noah from japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/ProWrestlingAARK

TheNWAChannel is old nwa stuff (best channel of the lot)
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheNWAChannel

WCWMainEvent199i has wcw nitro on there
http://www.youtube.com/user/WCWMainEvent1991


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

***** Rock matches?

Hogan WM18
Austin WM17
Austin WM19 (best possible match they could have done at that time with Austin's condition, perfect ending to Austin's career, Rock's sportsmanship/respect at the end...)

I'm drawing a blank everywhere else. I haven't seen vs HHH JD2000, and NWO 01 vs Angle more than once so I can't remember those at all.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Austin WM 17 and that's it.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

11rob2k said:


> ok,
> 
> Classic1pw is a puro channel their in the middle of uploading a career history of The Great Muta
> http://www.youtube.com/user/CLASSiC1PW
> ...


Thanks a bunch! Some good stuff there.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Ether said:


> ***** Rock matches?
> 
> Hogan WM18
> Austin WM17
> ...



Mania 17 is a 5 star match, but the other two certainly are not.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***** Rock Matches:


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Jbardo said:


> Mania 17 is a 5 star match, but the other two certainly are not.


I'm a bit biased on the WM19 one, WM18 is a ***** to me though. Not based off the in ring work, obviously, but everything else.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Ether said:


> ***** Rock matches?
> 
> Hogan WM18
> Austin WM17
> ...


He's never had one, the closest he's been is with Austin at WM17


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

PPV Title matches: Flair/Savage, Cena/Umaga and Eddie/JBL would be top ten for me pretty easily. I watched Flair/Savage a month or two ago and it really blew me away with how much it held up.



KingCal said:


> ***** Rock Matches:


I agree. But are you forgetting that Vengeance three-way AGAIN?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, not forgetting it. No longer hold it in such high regards.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> PPV Title matches: Flair/Savage, Cena/Umaga and Eddie/JBL would be top ten for me pretty easily. I watched Flair/Savage a month or two ago and it really blew me away with how much it held up.


This match is a marvel to watch. It holds up very well after over 20 years. They paced and executed almost everything perfectly. I think it's one of the better championship matches in WrestleMania history.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

R.I.P Clique 

Not seen Flair/Savage in sometime, but agree with *Yeah* about Cena/Umaga and Eddie/JBL deserving high regard. Would probably have Punk/Cena MITB, Angle/Austin Summerslam, Mankind/HBK Mind Games and Cena/HBK Wrestlemania 23 really high as well. Then there'd be a ton of matches which could replace one another to fill out the rest of a top 10 and top 20.

Edit: Oh dear lord at these new usertitles, I'm feckin Petey Williams. Gonna have to start eclipsing Pyro in terms of posts per day to rid myself of such shame.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Angle/Benoit probably would be pretty high on my list. I should re-watch that sometime soon.



Segunda Caida said:


> R.I.P Clique


Hey, at least I'm rocking the name of DA GOAT :austin2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

But your name's not Eddie Guerrero, or Jerry Lawler, or Dick Murdoch, or Terry Funk, or Yoshiaki Fujiwara, or Genichiro TENRYU (capitalised for added awesomeness), or Toshiaki Kawada, or Ric Flair, or Finlay, or El Satanico. I could go on 

Also whilst I have you in conversation, what's the exact rules per se with the classic section? Would I be permitted to make a World of Sport (British Wrestling from the 70s-late 80s) Discussion thread since it is classic wrestling, or would it be unwise and is the section more geared towards classic US territories rather than all forms of wrestling? I say this knowing full well I'll probably fail like Craig trying to go sober with keeping the thread updated with regular match reviews depending on how job hunting goes, but would rather ask here instead of a PM.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rock/Austin WrestleMania 17 is the only ***** match The Rock really had. Hogan/Rock was amazing, but the match itself wasn't great. The fans made that match. Rock/Austin at WM19 is about a ****. Considering Austin's condition at the time, real good.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I say go for it. I'm not sure how familiar others on the forum are with that I think someone tried to start something similar to that a couple months ago and didn't get much of a response, but I'm now interested in what you present.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Sweet, I did do one ages back in OW but it took off to limited success and then nose-dived, but christ that section is utter dross these days so I'd rather rest my laurels with this new section and pray some of the wiser heads in here contribute. I'll try and get a few reviews up sometime tomorrow and then make the thread so people have a bit to go on, pretty sure a few will be interested to see Finlay and Davey Boy in their younger days as well as get introductions to people who are precursors to Finlay and William Regal.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Segunda Caida said:


> But your name's not Eddie Guerrero, or Jerry Lawler, or Dick Murdoch, or Terry Funk, or Yoshiaki Fujiwara, or Genichiro TENRYU (capitalised for added awesomeness), or Toshiaki Kawada, or Ric Flair, or Finlay, or El Satanico. I could go on
> 
> Also whilst I have you in conversation, what's the exact rules per se with the classic section? Would I be permitted to make a World of Sport (British Wrestling from the 70s-late 80s) Discussion thread since it is classic wrestling, or would it be unwise and is the section more geared towards classic US territories rather than all forms of wrestling? I say this knowing full well I'll probably fail like Craig trying to go sober with keeping the thread updated with regular match reviews depending on how job hunting goes, but would rather ask here instead of a PM.


I love World of Sports, if you start a discussion thread for it, it might end up being the only section i ever post in, The grapple wrestling used by Davey Boy, FInlay, Regal is the best i had ever seen, then you have the big guys like Big Daddy and Haystack not great wrestling but very fun to watch, also you have likes of Kendo Nagasaki and Smammy lee putting on great matches to. great fun to watch.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There's an array of top quality matches and wrestlers as you said. I personally wouldn't be concentrating on the heavyweights but as you said that's not to say there isn't something to be had from watching their bouts.

Still between Steve Grey, Johnny Saint, Jim Breaks, Clive Myers, Terry Rudge, Marty Jones, Adrian Street, Clive Thompson, Alan Sarjeant amongst others you get a beautiful mix of stiff striking wrestling, tremendous matwork and grappling and some very subtle and intelligent stories developing in matches, whether its a veteran versus a young rookie, a face/face title match which gradually breaks down into a heated fight etc there's something for various wrestling fans.

Its also really disheartening to see how simple and toned down US matwork and grappling is compared to the European and Lucha counterparts. Its hard to watch some of the more 'pimped' American technicians and hear the commentators praising the matwork when they're getting outshined by even the most basic Lucha and British wrestlers, let alone the supreme workers. That's not to say the US form of grappling cannot be entertaining or work its way into the story of a match..but watching WOS, Lucha and Puro Shoot Style can leave you rather unimpressed in comparison.


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

Another huge (Y)(Y)(Y) from me on this idea.
Ive just recently gotten ESPN classic (the uk version) on my tv package and have been seriously loving watching old WOS stuff on Sid Waddells Wrestling Show every saturday afternoon. Had very vague memories of seeing it as a kid, took a little while to get used to the super clean technical style but once you do its addictive viewing.
Been hitting youtube for fixes too but the problem is finding detailed info on how it developed apart from the Wiki page on UK wrestling, noticing certain guys standing out like Rollerball Rocco and Marty Jones, the history seems kinda fuzzy between Joint promotions and All Star, Regals recent AOW had some nuggets too,so yeah a defintive thread would be most welcome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

FWIW I think Marty Jones will likely be the guy most noobs would soon find to be the breakout star. He's a very obvious precursor to Regal and mixes in some swank chain wrestling with some meaty strikes and stiff shots. He's not as good a grappler as some of the lightweight/catchweight guys but he's good enough to impress folk whilst retaining the advantage of working a more vicious and violent match within the spirit of the rules. I could see a lot of people digging the 1984 Jones vs Finlay bout as well as his matches against Dynamite Kid (I loathe DK in most settings but he's awesome in this match) and the 1987 Owen Hart bout. Feels like they bring in elements of US wrestling whilst still clinging to enough WOS attributes for it to get over with the British crowd.

This isn't to say I could see people disliking the more grapple heavy bouts you associate with Steve Grey and co, but I do think Jones has more of a transcendent appeal in his style compared to others who are inherently British in their approach.

I found a ton of matches from another forum where a guy did a similar project, I'm not greatly familiar with the history of WOS but it would appear the golden era is anytime between 1972 and 1985. By about 1986 and 87 it appears Joint Promotions slowly fizzled out and the other main promotion began to become more prominent, only their style of wrestling was far weaker and ensured the consistent standard of quality rapidly declined.

Oh and Jim Breaks could easily capture a few hearts. A very american approach in making his insufferable and obnoxious character a figure in a lot of his grappling and ensuring a right balance between stellar grappling and top notch character work to retain the heat and put over his opponents. His work against Adrian Street, Johnny Saint and Young Davey (British Bulldog) is mightly impressive in particular.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship Matches Ever : 10-7*


10.









"Look at Undertaker's cut.... Very graphic"

Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell ; No Mercy 2002) : ***** 3/4*


9.









"Michaels working the HAND of Mankind!"

Shawn Michaels vs Mankind (In Your House Mind Games) : ***** 3/4*


8.









"Bah gawd! What a vicious suplex!"

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2001) : ***** 3/4*


7.









"Vince Mcmahon would have said... Who the HEEEELLLLLL is CM Punk ? and who the HEEEELLLLLLLLLL is Daniel Bryan? And then his head would have exploded"

CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit 2012) : ***** 3/4*


Next post it'll be 6-4, then 3-2, then number one.... Which will be extremely obvious but whatever.... A WWE championship match in the top 7 that took place THIS YEAR?!?!?!?! Let the madness begin.

On a side note... Just finished my last WHC PPV match, so LISTAMANIA's gonna continue.... In the name of the father :vince , of the son in law :hhh , and of the holy cashcow :cena ..... AMEN !


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> In the name of the father :vince , of the son in law :hhh , and of the holy cashcow :cena ..... AMEN !


:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Oh and Jim Breaks could easily capture a few hearts. A very american approach in making his insufferable and obnoxious character a figure in a lot of his grappling and ensuring a right balance between stellar grappling and top notch character work to retain the heat and put over his opponents. His work against Adrian Street, Johnny Saint and Young Davey (British Bulldog) is mightly impressive in particular.


Indeed, that Davey Boy match was just on that Sid waddell show last week, Jims subtly comedic ways of getting heat and OTT facials were a joy to watch, he reminds me of an asshole PE teacher.
Another recuring thing Ive noticed in them is whenever a guy seems especially polished the commentator will always mention he's just returned from a stint at Stampede in Calgary.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll take a guess on matches that'll make the top 6. Cena/Punk MITB obviously, Austin/Rock WM17, I assume (and hope) that Angle/Benoit RR03 will make the cut. And is it only PPV matches? Because otherwise, matches such as Austin/Benoit on Raw or Lesnar/Angle Ironman should be included.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HHH vs Mick Foley RR 2000
Angle vs Benoit RR 2003 

Number 1 and 2 

Austin vs Rock WM17
Cena vs Punk MITB 11
Eddie vs Lesnar NWO 04 

Can't think of another match at the moment


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

andersonasshole900 said:


> What are the best Smackdown 2003 matches?


Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio vs. Haas & Benjamin from 8/14. Someone else needs to watch it so I'm not the only one talking about how awesome it is. Here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x620qo_rey-mysterio-kidman-vs-world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I can guess a couple of matches that will be next on K1ngofK1ng's list. I know he has Foley/HHH RR as HHH's best match (and Foley I'd assume) at *****, so that's definitely on there. I'd like to think he has Benoit/Angle RR03 on there. Besides that though.... not sure. Don't think I've seen Punk/Cena MITB on his list yet, so if not that's surely one.

My top 6 WWE Title matches:

(*****)
1) Benoit vs. Angle RR 03
2) Foley vs. HHH RR 00
3) Punk vs. Bryan OTL 12
4) Austin vs. Rock WM17
(****3/4)
5) Taker vs. Lesnar NM02
6) Austin vs. Angle SS01

Also, for top 5 WHC (2002-present) matches (since top 100 whc is next for k1ngofk1ngs I assume):

(*****)
1) Undertaker vs. Angle NWO 06
(****1/2)
2) Undertaker vs. Batista WM23
3) Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH WM20
4) Batista vs. HHH Vengeance 05
5) Elimination Chamber Survivor Series 02


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

I know I'm going to get tons of shit for this but I've never watched any of The Rock vs. Steve Austin matches. I've wanted to but I'm kind of afraid that I won't get some needed context and be disappointed. Is there anything I should watch first before I watch their matches? Promos, video packages, other matches? And which ones of their matches are worth watching besides the WM ones?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

mk92071 said:


> I know I'm going to get tons of shit for this but I've never watched any of The Rock vs. Steve Austin matches. I've wanted to but I'm kind of afraid that I won't get some needed context and be disappointed. Is there anything I should watch first before I watch their matches? Promos, video packages, other matches? And which ones of their matches are worth watching besides the WM ones?


Do you have The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin dvd? If so, watch their Backlash 1999 match. Background hype video is included, as I think all of them are on that dvd.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches Ever : 6-4*


6.









"DO IT EDDIE! FROG SPLASH! FROG SPLASH!"

Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero (No Way Out 2004) : ***** 3/4*


5.









"Stone Cold has sold his soul to the devil!"

The Rock vs Steve Austin (No Holds Barred ; Wrestlemania X-7) : ***** 3/4*


4.









"I am tellin you right now!…with a tear in my eye! This…is the GREATEST MOMENT OF MY LIFE"

30 Man Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble 1992) : ***** 3/4*


Well, you guys probably know the top 3 (but the order will SHOCK you :O ) !


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

two of the top 3 I have a pretty good feeling will be:

John Cena vs CM Punk - Money in the Bank 2011
Triple H vs Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hm, so it looks like it may be the matches I mentioned... and if any of them have been put on the list already... then well... take it off and put them in the top 3 (especially Angle/Benoit). 

That being said, I would've guessed:

1) Foley/HHH RR
2) Angle/Benoit RR
3) Cena/Punk MITB

But since you said the order would be shocking, I'm thinking Cena/Punk will be moved up to number 1, with Foley/HHH following and then Angle/Benoit last.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*No Way Out 2005*:

1) _WWE Tag Team Championship_:

Eddie Guerrero/Rey Mysterio vs Basham Brothers(c) ~ **1/2


2) Booker T vs John Heidenreich ~ DUD


3) _WWE Cruiserweight Championship_ - _Gauntlet Match_:

Shoichi Funaki(c) vs Chavo Guerrero Jr. vs Paul London vs Spike Dudley vs Shannon Moore vs Akio ~ *1/2


4) The Undertaker vs Luther Reigns ~ 1/2*


5) _Finals of the Road to WrestleMania_ Tournament:

John Cena vs Kurt Angle ~ ***


6) _WWE Championship_ - _Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match_:

John Bradshaw Layfield(c) vs Big Show ~ *1/2​

Finally gave this PPV a watch. Oof. Not like I missed out on much here. 

~ I will give credit to the main event not being nearly as abyssmal as one could believe. It did what it needed to do. Plus, it had a finish that honestly nobody saw coming once JBL was deemed DOA in the giant hole. Looking at the positives...

~ Cena vs Angle was a disapointment, despite it being the easy MOTN. While it was a solid wrestling contest it didn't have any real defining moments that made it pop. It is NOTHING like their superb bout from No Mercy 2003. I used that as the measuring stick walking in. Didn't end like I would have hoped.

~ Tag Titles was a total carry job. Bashams suck. Mysterio is grand. Eddie is legit - definition of brilliant.

~ Heidenreich is garbage.

~ Luther Reigns channeled the Nasty Boys by only using CLUBBERIN. Ugh.

~ Cruiserweights were jipped for time, but Paul London rules. 

~ Anything else...? No. That's about it.

*side note* Eddie Guerrero's backstage pep-talk to John Cena about the importance of the WWE Championship shot was the defining moment of this PPV. The passion behind it was truly remarkable. FUXIN EDDIE :mark:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Sheamus/Punk* ***1/3

This was good stuff but you could tell they were holding back somewhat and 2 commercial breaks didn't help. Finish and promo afterwards makes me think this could be a possible Wrestlemania match, which would be awesome imo.


----------



## ConnorMCFC (Mar 12, 2012)

So whose ordered the punk DVD?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

DVD came yesterday BD came today :mark: Documentary is fantastic probably the best one they've ever done. Watched some of the matches, I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed the Regal match and the bonus on this set is they've included what happened during the commercial so you get the full match uncut.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How much for a copy of the Bluray set, Platt? (LOL, had to edit that as I called you Punk the first time  )


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ConnorMCFC said:


> So whose ordered the punk DVD?


After reading reviews i decided to, should have had it today but SV messed up my pre-order, but looking forward to the doc and i havn't seen a couple of the matches on the set...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Which Regal match is that *Platt*?. I recall loving their late December MSG House Show match and thinking it was comfortably their best match together, but any combination of Punk/Regal is bound to excel.

Good to hear the documentary is superb, though with Punk having free reign over the project it doesn't come as quite the surprise.


----------



## YESYESYES! (Apr 12, 2012)

My BITW Blu-Ray is here. Here we go!!!!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> Which Regal match is that *Platt*?. I recall loving their late December MSG House Show match and thinking it was comfortably their best match together, but any combination of Punk/Regal is bound to excel.
> 
> Good to hear the documentary is superb, though with Punk having free reign over the project it doesn't come as quite the surprise.


It's the one from Chicago when Punk won the IC Title. I've heard nothing but amazing things about the documentary so I'm looking forward to that more than anything.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got the CM Punk: ROH Summer Of Punk (2 Discs) DVD? I would like a copy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 WWE Championship Matches Ever : 3-1*


3. 









"What a wrestling match, I'm breathless"

Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 2003) : *******


2.









"What you don't understand John... Is that I'M THE BEST IN THE WORLD"

John Cena vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank 2011) : *******


*SOOOOOOO That Means.........................*

:hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh


1.









"THE PEDIGREE ON THE THUMBTACKS! THE PEDIGREE ON THE TACKS!"

Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Street Fight ; Royal Rumble 2000) : *******


In my next post I'm gonna drop the full list and commence with my *TOP 75 PPV World Heavyweight Championship Matches Ever.* Gonna write up who are the best world championship performers now


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> How much for a copy of the Bluray set, Platt? (LOL, had to edit that as I called you Punk the first time  )


£8 would cover it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Documentary is online, downloading it now lol

I get paid on Tuesday so some money will be coming your way Platt (said that 2 weeks ago too I think lol, but I ended up with fuck all after I paid rent and bills ).


----------



## E-warrior96 (Jan 31, 2012)

been following your top 100 list regularly king of kings, loved it  keep it up! I would have placed benoit and angle at number one personally though. Could you do a top 100 matches of all time list in the future? would be awesome. or top 100 wrestlemania matches.  cheers!

edit: can someone pm me or post the download link for cm punks dvd please? would appreciate it


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Oh I want the CM Punk doc!!! Can someone send me that link please?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Easter Eggs for the Punk set 



> CM Punk: Best in the World Blu-ray
> 
> Disc 1
> Easter Egg:	Baton
> ...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> :mark: Documentary is online, downloading it now lol
> 
> I get paid on Tuesday so some money will be coming your way Platt (said that 2 weeks ago too I think lol, but I ended up with fuck all after I paid rent and bills ).


Care to share where you found it? I'd like to watch it. Finally got my hands on Punk/Cena from NOC. Going to watch that, Cena/Lesnar and HHH/Lesnar tonight if I can't find the Punk doc anywhere lol. Also waiting on some Lesnar UFC stuff to finish downloading too. I'm venturing outside my comfort zone, go me!! Lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *The Top 100 WWE Championship Matches Ever : 3-1*


Great job, although I would have placed RR03 at the #1 spot.

Seems like this topic is going to be overtaken by a bunch of talk about Punk's DVD so I might have to take a break for a week or something.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Everybody so far has said it's a great watch and I think it will be. You don't have to be a fan of the guy to watch and enjoy his story and I for one am very curious about it. Hopefully somebody (CAL!!) shares the link and I can watch it lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its on XWT atm. If you ain't a member, then you'll just have to wait for someone else to post it on one of those file sharing link sites lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Its on XWT atm. If you ain't a member, then you'll just have to wait for someone else to post it on one of those file sharing link sites lol.


Or you can sign up and start downloading it yourself.  I never knew about that site though so at least you were good for something. Joking lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Depends if you can sign up though, they often close registrations . And how the hell can anyone (especially someone who has been around since 08 :side NOT have known about one of the two major wrestling torrent sites?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I recently registered to XWT and I'm glad I did. Downloaded all of 2004 that I had left and 2005 and 2006 are almost finished. Then after that, I'll also catch up with all the Attitude Era years!

Registrations usually close around PPV time because a lot of leechers register to download a few stuff then quickly leave. And I also like the rules regarding seeding. That way you wont have a bunch of dead torrents and most of them download at a fast speed.


----------



## E-warrior96 (Jan 31, 2012)

how do you download torrents. i signed up to xwt and it said that windows doesn't know what format its in? and asked me to open the file using something from the internet or from a list of programmes that already exist. help?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Personally I use a program called utorrent http://www.utorrent.com/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top 100 WWE Championship PPV Matches of all time 

1.	Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Streetfight ; Royal Rumble 2000) 
2.	John Cena vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank 2011) 
3.	Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 2003) 
4. Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble 1992)
5.	The Rock vs Steve Austin (No Disqualification ; Wrestlemania X-7) 
6.	Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero (No Way Out 2004)
7.	CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit 2012) 
8.	Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2001) 
9.	Shawn Michaels vs Mankind (In Your House Mind Games 96) 
10.	Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell ; No Mercy 2002)
11.	Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
12.	Bret Hart vs The Undertaker (One Night Only 1997) 
13.	Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (Judgment Day 2004) 
14.	The Rock vs Triple H Judgment Day 2000
15.	Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Hell in a Cell ; No Way Out 2000) 
16.	John Cena vs CM Punk (W/Special Referee Triple H ; Summerslam 2011)
17.	Bret Hart vs Davey Boy Smith (In Your House V Seasons Beatings)
17. Bret Hart vs Diesel (Survivor Series 1995)
18.	CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) 
19.	John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing ; Royal Rumble 2007)
20.	Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2003) 
21.	Vader vs Bret Hart vs The Undertaker vs Steve Austin (Elimination ; In Your House Final Four) 
22.	The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle vs The Rock (Vengeance 2002) 
23.	Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (Summerslam 1992) 
24.	Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX) 
25.	CM Punk vs John Cena (Night of Champions 2012) 
26.	Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2003) 
27.	Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Casket Match ; Royal Rumble 1998)
28.	Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund (Survivor Series 1994) 
29.	Triple H vs The Rock (Backlash 2000)
30.	Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2001) 
31.	Triple H vs Randy Orton (Last Man Standing : No Mercy 2007)
32.	Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V) 
33.	Shawn Michaels vs Vader (Summerslam 1996) 
34.	Shawn Michaels vs Randy Orton (Survivor Series 2007) 
35.	Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Cage Match ; Summerslam 1994) 
36.	Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show (Stretcher Match ; Judgment Day 2003) 
37.	Edge vs John Cena (TLC ; Unforgiven 2006) 
38.	John Cena vs JBL (I Quit Match ; Judgment Day 2005) 
39.	Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XX) 
40.	Steve Austin/Triple H vs The Undertaker/Kane (Backlash 2001)
41.	Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI) 
42.	Diesel vs Bret Hart (Royal Rumble 1995) 
43.	John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII) 
44.	Triple H vs Steve Austin (No Mercy 1999) 
45.	Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (No Mercy 2008) 
46.	Shawn Michaels vs Diesel (In Your House VII)
47.	John Cena vs Edge vs Triple H (Backlash 2006) 
48.	The Rock vs Chris Benoit (Fully Loaded 2000)
49.	Steve Austin vs Dude Love (Over the Edge 1998) 
50.	John Cena vs Batista (Last Man Standing ; Extreme Rules 2010) 
50. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Street Fight ; Extreme Rules 2012)
51.	Randy Orton vs John Cena (No Way Out 2008) 
52.	John Cena vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII) 
52. Triple H vs John Cena (Night of Champions 2008)
53.	Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 1997)
54.	CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank 2012) 
55.	John Cena vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 2009) 
56.	John Cena vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXVI) 
57.	Shawn Michaels vs Sid (Survivor Series 1996)
58.	Triple H vs The Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 2000)
59.	CM Punk vs The Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC ; TLC 2011) 
60.	Bret Hart vs The Undertaker (Summerslam 1997) 
61.	Chris Jericho vs The Rock (Royal Rumble 2002)
62.	Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Judgment Day 2001) 
63.	John Cena vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels (Backlash 2007) 
64.	Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker vs Triple H vs The Rock vs Steve Austin vs Rikishi (Hell in a cell ; Armageddon 2000) 
65.	Alberto Del Rio vs CM Punk (Survivor Series 2011) 
66.	Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Fully Loaded 1999) 
67.	Edge vs Triple H vs The Undertaker vs Vladimir Kozlov vs Big Show vs Jeff Hardy (Elimination Chamber ; No Way Out 2009) 
68.	John Cena vs Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels (Taboo Tuesday 2005) 
69.	Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle vs Rob Van Dam (No Mercy 2001) 
70.	Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2001) 
71.	The Rock vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam2002) 
72.	Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV) 
73.	John Cena vs Rob Van Dam (Extreme Rules ; One Night Stand 2006) 
74.	The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XV)
75.	Undertaker vs Mankind (In Your House Revenge of the Taker) 
76.	John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio vs CM Punk (Hell in a Cell ; Hell in a Cell 2011) 
77.	Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (Texas Bullrope Match ; Great American Bash 2004)
78.	Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (Unforgiven 2002) 
79.	Steve Austin vs The Rock (Backlash 2001) 
80.	CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (No Way Out 2012) :
81.	CM Punk vs Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler vs The Miz vs R-Truth vs Kofi Kingston (Elimination Chamber Match ; Elimination Chamber 2012) 
82.	John Cena vs Christian vs Chris Jericho (Vengeance 2005) 
83.	Shawn Michaels vs British Bulldog (King of the Ring 1996)
84.	John Cena vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2005) 
85.	JBL vs Kurt Angle vs The Big Show (Royal Rumble 2005) 
86.	Bret Hart vs The Patriot (In Your House Ground Zero) 
87.	Rob Van Dam vs Edge (Vengeance 2005) 
88.	Edge vs Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (Armageddon 2008)
89.	Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (Biker Chain Match ; No Mercy 2003) 
90.	Triple H vs Davey Boy Smith vs The Rock vs Mankind vs Kane vs The Big Show (Unforgiven 1999) 
91.	Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 1992) 
92.	Bret Hart vs Diesel (King of the Ring 1994) 
93.	John Cena vs Randy Orton (Summerslam 2007) 
94.	John Cena vs Umaga (New Years Revolution 2007) 
95.	Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (Cyber Sunday 2008) 
96.	John Cena vs Batista (I Quit Match ; Over the Limit 2010) 
97.	Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV) 
98.	Mankind vs The Rock (Last Man Standing ; St. Valentine’s Day Massacre 1999) 
99.	Shawn Michaels vs Ken Shamrock (In Your House ; Degeneration X) 
100.	Brock Lesnar vs John Cena (Backlash 2003)

Hope you enjoyed the list , because I have my top 75 WHC matches and my top 150 matches ever on standby...

Expect lots of :hhh ..... Top 10 WWE Championship Performers coming up today !

Edit : can somebody tell me how to wrap a spoiler tag around that thing ?


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

So many matches on that list that I disagree with being in front of others.


----------



## E-warrior96 (Jan 31, 2012)

did rewatch of bryan vs. punk from otl 2012 and enjoyed it much more than I did the first time around. have this at ****3/4. great psychology, great crowd, great technical wrestling, and some good sequences. awesome stuff, one of my personal favorite matches of all time


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually really liked the list. Granted there are some matches that I feel are either rated too highly or too low, but I can't think of anything seriously wrong with the list. Looking forward to the WHC rankings.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Depends if you can sign up though, they often close registrations . And how the hell can anyone (especially someone who has been around since 08 :side NOT have known about one of the two major wrestling torrent sites?


I'm a jobber lol. And I actually used to pay for every PPV up until recently when I decided they aren't worth the money anymore. Now I only pay for the big 4. I was able to sign up right away and am downloading the Punk doc now. Fucking slow as shit though. Started out real fast and now has hardly budged.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I stopped getting every show around mid 04 lol. Now I buy RR and WM, and maybe one or two others depending on the card. Doesn't help that over here in the UK I can't buy ALL of the shows as some are "free" on Sky Sports and I don't pay for that package .

Aye, it'll go slow as shit for a while. TONS of people downloading atm with only 1 seeder. I've been downloading for 2 hours and I've not even got to 30% yet. It'll pick up soon though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> I stopped getting every show around mid 04 lol. Now I buy RR and WM, and maybe one or two others depending on the card. Doesn't help that over here in the UK I can't buy ALL of the shows as some are "free" on Sky Sports and I don't pay for that package .
> 
> Aye, it'll go slow as shit for a while. TONS of people downloading atm with only 1 seeder. I've been downloading for 2 hours and I've not even got to 30% yet. It'll pick up soon though.


I'm at 30% and been downloading for about 30 mins lol. I might get there quicker than you, ha! I buy the Rumble every year because it's my favorite gimmick match and I've been going to Mania live these past couple of years. Summerslam and S.Series have recently started becoming an issue for me though. This year I got Summerslam because of HHH/Brock. If that wasn't on the card I don't think I would have got it. Last year I got Survivor Series purely because it was Rock's first match back. If that wasn't on the card I doubt I would have got that either. It has got to the point now where I really have to ask myself if I'm willing to part with my money to watch these things. I find that terribly sad considering I used to buy them all without question.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingofKings how is your #1 match of all time rated lower than #s 2 and 3?


----------



## E-warrior96 (Jan 31, 2012)

My top 5 matches of 2012 so far

1)CM punk vs. Daniel Bryan OTL 2012 - ****3/4
2)The Undertaker vs. Triple H WM 28 HIAC - ****1/2
3)Brock Lesnar vs. John cena Extreme rules - ****1.2
4)CM punk vs. chris jericho Extreme rules - ****1/4
5)Rock vs. John cena wm 28 - (for the hype) - ****1/4


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

Christ, it looks like the cover for a BDSM porno!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Waiting for the DVD to come for the Punk doc. :mark:

And great list, KOK! Enjoyed reading it.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Got the Punk Blu ray in the post, watched the doc. 2nd best documentary WWE has ever produced.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

What extras are on the blu ray?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^ Second best doc ever? Wow. Looking forward to it.

BITW Blu-Ray Extras

No plan B

Saxophone

Easter Greeting

Chicken Wings and Apple Pie

Most Recognizable Tattoo

Fish Tattoo

Traveling with Ace

No Microphone

ECW Arena Match

Hanging with Eddie Guerrero

Trainer

Driving Away With the Title

Wrestling Camp

"They're Gonna Hate Me"

Six People, 1 Room

I'm a Paul Heyman guy

The Marathon

@CMPunk

The Bus Tour

Kofi's Challenge

Wrestlemania Day

A Day at the Ball Field

True Respect

Finals Match in the IC Championship Tournament
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio
Armageddon 2008


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Stone Cold doc would still be second if Punks wasn't so damn well paced, where the Stone Cold doc tends to drag toward the end.

Oh and Ambrose makes a brief cameo in it.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I wish I made an account on XWT, only found out about it about 2 weeks ago and they've closed sign ups :hhh


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*K1ngOfK1ngs*, are you gonna post the runners up or the matches that just missed the cut? I wanna know why the HIAC between Orton & Sheamus isn't on your list.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just got done with the Punk doc and it definitely lives up to the hype as one of the best WWE docs out there imo. You don't have to be a fan of the guy to enjoy it or appreciate his story. Very insightful look in to his life and I feel much better informed after watching it. I think I understand why he is the way he is, at least to a better degree than I did before. I think Punk himself called it great because it's a human story and I'd agree with him. I'd definitely recommend it to fans and non fans alike. I'm no CM Punk fan but I really enjoyed it. Of course, there were bits I didn't agree with, mainly the bit on Taker which seemed really out of place and forced to me (JR saying his matches with Taker solidified him had me scratching my head since the exact opposite happened) and Punk's personal thoughts on Miz getting the Mania 27 main event. That came across as really sour grapes mixed with blatant jealousy. Miz may not have worked on the indies but he had to work just as hard to get his spot at the top. It's things like that that I take issue with when it comes to Punk. I don't want to nitpick so I'm going to stop there. This is a great documentary, an insightful documentary, a personal documentary and a revealing one that is highly enjoyable and above all else, tells a great story. What more could you want? I'll hang on to this and definitely watch it again sometime. Watching him dancing on stage made me lol. Expected to see more of Lita and Cena but the right people did most of the talking in his family, friends, Heyman and Hayes. Definitely a must watch doc.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Glad to hear positive things about the Punk doc. (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nice list K1ngofK1ngs, though on the top 3 post, you put HHH/Jack at ****3/4. I actually do disagree with a lot on the list, but there's far too many (it's not really the matches on the list for the most part, but the order and putting some matches ahead of others... for example I don't think HHH/Austin NM99 should be over HHH/Hardy NM08, or a bunch of other matches below it). But still, overall a great list and it's been interesting.

As far as Punk doc goes, sounds awesome. Can't wait to get it and watch it (a lot more so than before)


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Great list KOK, disagree with some places of the matches but that'll happen. I think we all have a pretty good guess of the #1 on the Top 75 WHC matches


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Glad to hear all the insanely positive feedback for the Punk DVD. I'll be purchasing the Blu-Ray once it comes out next week. Obviously I'm stoked, my expectations are ridiculously high.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

You know it's weird, I'm a Punk fan and really don't care for the Miz but whenever Punk says that Miz shouldn't have main evented WM I just get really irritated. That's a cardinal sin imo, just makes him seem like a really shitty person.


----------



## Jotunheim (Sep 25, 2012)

jblvdx said:


> Stone Cold doc would still be second if Punks wasn't so damn well paced, where the Stone Cold doc tends to drag toward the end.
> 
> Oh and Ambrose makes a brief cameo in it.


I marked out when I saw ambrose :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does Punker's doc focus a good bit on ROH/Indie career? I'd hate it to only skim over that stuff.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I believe I heard that it goes somewhat in depth on it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

YES YES YES


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Can someone recommend me some good Bret WCW matches? Don't remember anything about his run there except Goldberg ended his career and he was misused.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Punk's DVD. 

I think the underlying tone left is, even if you don't like him you certainly have to respect him unk I can relate a lot to him so I guess I see things from his perspective and even from others, for example the Miz thing, I agree with Starbuck it is sour grapes but the fact is Punk was so pissed off at that point that he knew he was better and asked why he's not in that spot and its true looking at it, I doubt they had a one legit valid answer to give to him. 

I think its probably joint best DVD along with Austin's, maybe better but I won't go that far yet. Problem is (I hope anyway) he has a lot to add to the story.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ether said:


> Can someone recommend me some good Bret WCW matches? Don't remember anything about his run there except Goldberg ended his career and he was misused.


I'd say the only one really worth watching is the Owen Tribute match against Benoit. It's from Nitro but idr the exact date. His other notable matches were against Sting & Goldberg but I never found any of those all that great, plus the majority of them had stupidly shitty endings.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Anybody have a link to the cm punk best in the world dvd. I'm not on XWT and I want to watch it....badly


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Anybody have a link to the cm punk best in the world dvd. I'm not on XWT and I want to watch it....badly


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/home-videos/638527-cm-punk-best-world-documentary-only.html

@Jack: Thanks, never got around to watching that match somehow.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ether said:


> Can someone recommend me some good Bret WCW matches? Don't remember anything about his run there except Goldberg ended his career and he was misused.


Hart was nowhere near as great in WCW like he was in WWF but I always thought Bret/Flair from Souled Out 1998 was overlooked. On first watch years ago I was impressed by it because I had no expectations going in and they did a good job. Bret/Benoit from Mayhem 1999 is solid too but not at the level of the Owen Tribute match from Nitro in October. Check out Bret/Hennig from Uncensored '98. Bret and Curt always had fantastic chemistry but I'd recommend their WWF matches in the late 80s-early 90s first. Guess you can check out Bret/Savage from Slammboree 98 too.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Ether said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/home-videos/638527-cm-punk-best-world-documentary-only.html
> 
> @Jack: Thanks, never got around to watching that match somehow.


THANK YOU


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah so.... I fucked up and accidentally gave HHH-Jack **** 3/4 instead of the rightful full boat which means it's the greatest WWE Championship match ever :hhh

NEW LIST TIME! (Note: These matches aren't nearly as impressive as the one's on the WWE Championship list, so if you say WTF for the first 15 that I drop right now, don't worry because there's not much else I could actually put there... It's only been 10 years. Just like Cena basically dominating my WWE Championship list, I was surprised as to who actually has the most appearances on this list...Well not THAT surprised...It's not HHH, promise )

*The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship Matches : 75-61*


75.









Edge vs Jeff Hardy (Judgment Day 2009) : *****


74.









The Undertaker vs Chris Jericho vs The Big Show (Survivor Series 2009) : *****


73.









Rey Mysterio vs JBL (Judgment Day 2006) : *****


72.









Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio (Night of Champions 2012) : *****


71.









CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (The Bash 2009) : *****


70.









CM Punk vs The Undertaker (Breaking Point 2009) : *****


69.









CM Punk vs Batista (Great American Bash 2008) : *****


68.









Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXII) : *****


67.









Triple H vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXI) : *****


66.









Triple H vs Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels vs Kevin Nash vs Chris Jericho vs Goldberg (Elimination Chamber ; Summerslam 2003) : *****


65.









Batista vs JBL (Streetfight ; Summerslam 2005) : *****


64.









Daniel Bryan vs The Big Show vs Mark Henry (Cage ; Royal Rumble 2012) : *****


63.









John Cena vs JBL (Royal Rumble 2009) : **** 1/4*


62.









John Cena vs Edge vs The Big Show (Wrestlemania XXV) : **** 1/4*


61.









The Undertaker vs Edge (TLC ; One Night Stand 2008) : **** 1/4*



Love alot of those matches, mainly the WM 21 & 22 matches, the Batista-JBL Streetfight, and The Undertaker-Edge TLC Match. That gets bumped up alot because of the insane bump Taker took. A legend like him had no reason to take that bump other than to give us our money's work. I know alot of the spots were obvious, but DAMN that match is entertaining. Some stuff I don't particularly love on here so far, but shit starts getting AWESOME very soon.

OH, and for the record... The top appearances on my top 100 WWE Championship Matches Ever...

12.... Punk/Bret/Shawn

13.... Austin/Rock

14.... Taker/Angle

20.... HHH

25.... John Cena

Most matches at **** 1/4+ (That defines a classic IMO, so most classics) go as follows :

6... Austin/Lesnar/Taker

7... HHH/Cena/Bret

8... Kurt Angle ? That blows my mind actually.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ether said:


> Can someone recommend me some good Bret WCW matches? Don't remember anything about his run there except Goldberg ended his career and he was misused.


watch the match with Terry Funk where he gets rolled while in a trolley or whatever it was.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

complete legends of wrestling nearly downloaded :mark:


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk doc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTi1Jh2HaEs&feature=youtu.be


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Watched Punks doc and I thought it was a good doc.

I thought they were going to stop the doc at ER 2012?


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Could someone remind me how Paul bearer left the undertaker and started managing mankind? I've seen the ppv matches but the build up and feud itself is pretty hazy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched the Punk doc. Incredible stuff. Up there as one of the best docs they've released along with the Jake Roberts, ECW and Steve Austin ones.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ether said:


> Can someone recommend me some good Bret WCW matches? Don't remember anything about his run there except Goldberg ended his career and he was misused.





Clique said:


> Hart was nowhere near as great in WCW like he was in WWF but I always thought Bret/Flair from Souled Out 1998 was overlooked. On first watch years ago I was impressed by it because I had no expectations going in and they did a good job. Bret/Benoit from Mayhem 1999 is solid too but not at the level of the Owen Tribute match from Nitro in October. Check out Bret/Hennig from Uncensored '98. Bret and Curt always had fantastic chemistry but I'd recommend their WWF matches in the late 80s-early 90s first. Guess you can check out Bret/Savage from Slammboree 98 too.


I also enjoy his match with Sting on Nitro (1999) and to an extent the one at Halloween Havoc 1998 too,

Wonder if any WCW matches will be on Bret's Unreleased Set, i havn't seen the ones with Flair and Savage from WCW myself....


----------



## Kevokay (Nov 9, 2011)

*Future DVD Releases*

If you had the choice of what DVDs the WWE released what would you go for?

I would like a Rick Rude Docu, an Owen Hart Docu and a DVD featuring the best of the 80's!!


----------



## blur (Sep 6, 2012)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

Chris Benoit :troll


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

I want a Sting 3 disc set when he hangs up his boots and wwe can make it. A set on the Von Eric Family would be great to theres a lot of history there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just finished Punk documentary.

Amazing documentary. Not really much to say. I personally would've liked to hear a little bit more about why exactly Punk ended up losing the title and going down the card. They really didn't go deep into that, and the only explanation we got was "Punk didn't look like a credible threat to Taker"... that's for WWE to make him a credible threat, in some way. It leads me to believe even more the whole story about Taker/Punk was true (never was sure if it was confirmed or not) and that they didn't want to go into that, especially since Taker is such a respected figure, it would look better if Punk didn't air any grievance about Taker... if there even was any. It didn't sound like there was from the doc, just confusion in Punk's head regarding where he was heading after that. I also did find it funny, which Starbuck mentioned, that JR said Punk was solidified by Taker, where if anything the feud with him did the exact opposite. It's funny because Punk and Lesnar are both Heyman guys, and I think we saw with Punk what would've happened if Lesnar had lost to Taker in the cell in 2002. Taker put Lesnar over huge and made him the top star of the company, where with Punk rather than making him the top star of SD like he could've, they had Taker completely destroy Punk and then have Punk sent back down to nothingness.

As far as the comments about Miz, is it sour grapes? Yeah, but I can't disagree with what Punk said. He was and still is superior to Miz in every way, except one thing and that's being a media guy. Personally though I think it should've been Barrett as champion going against Cena in their final match of the feud. Rock could still get involved, maybe take a Nexus beatdown the Raw before Mania, then during the Barrett/Cena match, Nexus is about to come down and beatdown Cena but Rock comes out with a chair and lays them all out, hits the rock-bottom on Barrett, and then Cena locks in the STF or hits the AA for the win (match btw I'd imagine would be No DQ). Then the following night, they do the same thing they did on Raw, where Barrett and Nexus (instead of Corre) come out and get beat down by Cena and Rock, and then the match is made. Of course, that was my ideal situation, and not that Barrett is better than Punk in any category either besides presence (and I'm sure Punk would've complained a lot more about him than Miz), but I think ultimately it would've been better than Miz. Of course forget Barrett and remember Punk was the leader of New Nexus going against Cena, they could've worked with that going into Mania in a similar vein to what I suggested with Barrett. I believe Punk had every right to complain and get bitter about it, especially in hindsight when Cena/Miz ended up sucking and Punk/Cena had the match that is widely regarded as the best match in the last 5 or so years.

You could tell in Heyman's little blurb at the end he was proud of what Punk has accomplished. Punk, who was shafted time and time again is finally on the top of the mountain (Let's consider Cena the blimp hovering above the mountain  ) and it's through a lot of hard work, dedication, and sacrifice. A great story for this documentary and Punk deserves every accomplishment he's gotten and will continue to get. 

Best wrestling documentary I've seen. Was pulled in and enjoyed it from the start. It did a great job of going into his life and his career up to MITB last year in the 2 hours it got. You can't really ask for more, especially when you're a mark for the guy.


----------



## SavageSloth (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

Triple H. I know I know he already had dvds, but his previous one was just 2 disks. Think he could get a 3 or even 4 disk treatment.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*



11rob2k said:


> I want a Sting 3 disc set when he hangs up his boots and wwe can make it. A set on the Von Eric Family would be great to theres a lot of history there.


I watched the "Triumph and Tragedy of WCCW" DVD yesterday. The Von Erich family really deserves their own documentary.


----------



## HEELKris (Jul 31, 2012)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

They should make a Cody Rhodes DVD


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*



TomasThunder619 said:


> I watched the "Triumph and Tragedy of WCCW" DVD yesterday. The Von Erich family really deserves their own documentary.


I was going to watch that the other day to I found it online but I ended up watching something else instead, Is it worth checking out?


----------



## Eclairal (Jun 8, 2012)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

Ruthless Agression Era DVD


----------



## Shadow_Boy1181 (Oct 3, 2012)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*



SavageSloth said:


> Triple H. I know I know he already had dvds, but his previous one was just 2 disks. Think he could get a 3 or even 4 disk treatment.


They are making a 3 disc set, with a documentary in October next year. http://www.wwedvdnews.com/full-wwe-dvd-2013-schedule-history-of-wwe-raw-20-nitro-bret-hart-more/26724/


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*



11rob2k said:


> I was going to watch that the other day to I found it online but I ended up watching something else instead, Is it worth checking out?


It's pretty good telling how a small promotion in Texas started out the television era, gimmick era. Also, the Von Erich family tragedy, what great booker was Gary Hart, how important booker is, etc. So yeah, it's definitely worth a look.



HEELKris said:


> They should make a Cody Rhodes DVD


If Kofi Kingston has one, anybody can!


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

May be abit random, but i'd like a ministry Taker DVD.

Something like "The Darkside of the Deadman"

which would be pretty damn dark considering he was dead in the first place.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

I hope he has a sequel to it (considering his current deal runs till 2018) and the story continues on from MITB where he clearly gets another roadblock.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Just watched the Punk doc, so, so good might be the best dvd they have ever done, no doubt it's in the top 5. I love how they start right at the start of his indy days in IWA Mid South before going into Ring of Honour the footage they use from Ring of Honour is great to, His matches with Samoa Joe where some of the best matches i have ever seen and even though they didn't show any of the footage from his matches with Raven that dog collar match they talk about if i remember right was brutal, Loved that they put the snake promo in there to, It's one of the greatest promos ever cut. 

Love this documentary you can just tell Punks a guy living his dream, He loves to wrestle and now he's doing it at the very top, he's the best in wwe no question about it.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

Triple H and Mick Foley, its definitely the right time for both. both have great stories to tell but a little more sceptic on Triple H's as they may brush over a lot of stuff but could be great if they decide to push the boundaries.
Greatest Rivalries: Rock vs Austin.


----------



## dannytaker (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

the top 50 worst matches in wwe history 3 disks


----------



## Jobbin'likenoother (Jun 1, 2011)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

Foley docu.
CM Punk docu - Indies thru to MITB.
Rick Rude docu & comp.
Guerrero Family docu.
Evolution docu/comp.


----------



## dannytaker (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

greatest rivalries mankind vs the undertaker (96 - 98)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Punk documentary was amazing. Just finished watching it. It was really great to see an insight into his upbringing, him getting into wrestling, his rise up through the promotions, getting to the WWE, and becoming a big star in the WWE. I was only really familiar with Punk's WWE work, so I found the first half of the documentary that focused on his journey through all the promotions, his friendships made with wrestlers like Colt Cabana, his memorable matches, promos and feuds, and his hardships along the way was really interesting. His relationship with Heyman was also very interesting, and who knows where Punk would be now if he didn't have that backing from Heyman early on in his career. I've only really been a Punk fan since around 2009 when he had his feud with Jeff Hardy, his character really won me over then and I've been a fan of his ever since for it. I loved his time in The Straight Edge Society, he should of been a World Champion in that stable imo. And ever since his shoot last year (which was awesome that they included in full in the DVD) I've become a even bigger fan of his. So because I haven't been a fan of his along as some others, it was good to see some of his work that I never saw before (his pre-WWE days) and it was good to relive his moments from when I didn't really have an opinion of the guy (2006-2009). I've gained more of an understanding of Punk and I now have much more respect for the guy after watching this DVD and I highly recommend for any wrestling fans in general, regardless if you're a Punk fan or not. 

A big thanks to Arnold Tricky for that link.


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Punk doc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTi1Jh2HaEs&feature=youtu.be


Thanks for the link, just finished watching, loved it, cool to see Lars Fredrickson put in an appearance too(Y)

Best WWE doc? hmm very good but still think Rise and Fall of ECW takes some beating, great watch anyway though.


----------



## Certified G (Feb 1, 2011)

The Punk documentary was very good. I especially liked the IWA-MS and ROH parts even though the former was pretty short. 

Btw I read sometime ago on another website that WWE paid both Ian Rotten and ROH to use the footage. But didn't Ian sell the video library of IWA-MS to Highspots years ago?


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I need to see this ECW DVD doc. Is it really that good?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
It's arguably the best documentary they ever produced. They were very thorough with the history of the company, the angles, controversies, etc. The only thing that would have made it better is if they had a few of the more important stars to the company speak such as Raven and Douglas. However, the interviews they have were compiled greatly.


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

Phil's documentary was actually very good, one of the best I've seen.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks. I give it a download later.

Austin's new doc is still the best for me. Had everything. He even had a cry.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

The Corre said:


> The Punk documentary was very good. I especially liked the IWA-MS and ROH parts even though the former was pretty short.
> 
> Btw I read sometime ago on another website that WWE paid both Ian Rotten and ROH to use the footage. But didn't Ian sell the video library of IWA-MS to Highspots years ago?


Highspots bought the right to use the footage they didn't buy exclusive use of it. Ian sold off the IWA library with the company name a few years ago. WWE most likely paid Smartmarkvideo for the rights to the footage. Although I did find it strange that they gave credit to ROH for their footage but nothing was done in regards to the IWA, JCW footage they showed.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Since the topic of best documentaries was brought up what would you guys say are the Top 5-10 that WWE has produced? I have not seen Rock/Cena, Punk, Edge, or Orton's yet but I'd say [in no order] some of my favorites:

Rise & Fall Of ECW
Steve Austin: The Bottom Line...
History of the World Heavyweight Championship
Triumph & Tragedy of WCCW
Bret Hart: The Best There Is...
Jake Roberts: Pick Your Poison
Ric Flair & The Four Horsemen 
Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection
The Mania of WrestleMania
Shawn Michaels: Heartbreak & Triumph


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

Just watched the Punk doc, I wasn't a fan before but now......I'm still not. He seemed very bitter than his career isn't further than he thinks it should be. It was the first time I saw the pipe bomb speech in full and I kinda chuckled when his mic got cut. I just hate anyone who shoots on the business on live tv, it just seems like a wcw thing aka (russo, goldust) and look what happen to them. I just can't relate to todays talent, they don't seem to have that x factor and punk is one those guys IMO. Maybe he needs to come out in a pepsi truck and hose cena and AJ.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Clique said:


> Since the topic of best documentaries was brought up what would you guys say are the Top 5-10 that WWE has produced? I have not seen Rock/Cena, Punk, Edge, or Orton's yet but I'd say [in no order] some of my favorites:
> 
> Rise & Fall Of ECW
> Steve Austin: The Bottom Line...
> ...


Have you seen the Greatest Rivalries: HBK vs Bret doc?

Only ones I've seen from your list are the Flair Definitive Collection and HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph. I really need to check out the ECW DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top WWE Docs:

1. Roberts
2. Austin
3. Punk
4. Piper
5. ECW
6. WCCW
7. Bret
8. Benoit
9. Horsemen
10. Flair


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Knew I forgot a couple. Benoit would be up there with my favorites. Shame Eddie's was too short and a little disappointing.

Batista's was surprisingly good especially discussing his family.

Edit - I guess HBK/Hart counts. It's just a different interview style from the others. Good stuff nonetheless.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie's could have been way better if they focused more on his wrestling career. Instead it was 10% wrestling and 90% drugs and alcohol problems. Which was a huge part of his life no doubt, but so was wrestling. At least his book filled in all the gaps, and I'd recommend everyone read it.


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

The ECW one is top of the list for me, excellent storytelling, Heymans little monologue at the end almost had me applauding in my living room while shedding a tear, no wonder he got so many guys to 'drink the koolaid'.

The WCCW one is a good shout too, they dont hold back on the tragedies but do well to mix it with the awesome Freebirds stuff etc so its not too depressing a watch, sort of along the same lines would be the Road Warriors doc, Paul Ellering really makes that one and having the likes of Cornette on there doesnt hurt.
Jake Roberts one is great too, some of the extras are most interesting, such as the reason himself and Hogan never got their feud.

I rewatched the Shawn/Bret rivalries doc the other day its great stuff, only thing a bit flimsy about it is the thrown together footage between the interview, theres a couple moments where its hardly even relevant to the era theyre talking about, hopefully they improve that if they plan on more of a Rivalries series.

TBH my favourite WWE docs to watch nowadays are the LOW roundtables, cant get enough of those.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wish they'd release the roundtable shows on DVD. They did a couple a few years back, then every now and then one might make a DVD/Bluray (like the NWO one being on the upcoming NWO Bluray), but they really should bring them all out. Would be awesome.


----------



## lesenfanteribles (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*

Has there been a Chris Jericho DVD before? I don't remember seeing that, I may have missed it if it exists already.

Cruiserweights DVD..but then again even Hornswoggle would be on it..nothing against him though but I just dislike the character, they can use WWE/WCW/ECW videos for that..even other video libraries that they own that have the content

James Johnston/WWE Music DVD..A look into how he creates those awesome entrance music..

They can even make a Backstage DVD or something like a day in the life of a WWE superstar kind of thing..but I think that would be better off as a TV series though..

Anyway those are my two-cents for this..


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Rock's latest doc was stellar too until the end which I didn't like the Rock/Cena stuff. 

Taker, Foley, and HHH need quality documentaries.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley's getting one next year, it was on the wwe schedule and Foley confirmed it on twitter. HHH doc was on there too, but its been there for the last few years with no release .

Undertaker one will come when he officially retires probably.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Rock's doc was very good, imo.

Covered most things before his wrestling days and his wrestling days and his movies.

I'll be very much looking forward to HHH's and Foleys.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Best documentaries I've seen - 

Bret Hart
Stone Cold Steve Austin Bottom Line
Chris Jericho
Mania of Wrestlemania (extra on Mania 20 DVD)
The Rock
CM Punk
Rise and Fall of ECW

I just got done watching the Punk doc and it got me thinking. Just how many of WWE's "prototype" guys end up being the most successful? Seems to me, the guys who are seen as not being the "typical WWE superstar" are the guys who end up being most successful.

"Typical" WWE guys who achieved big success in the company:

Hulk Hogan
Ultimate Warrior
Diesel (although he didn't draw a dime)
John Cena

Those seem to be the main guys who WWE saw as the guy to be the face of the company in some way. Someone who could sell all the merch and be the number 1 star.

Then we watch these docs of legends and we hear people talk about how Vince and management didn't think they would ever make it but went on to be megastars or huge names:

Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
The Rock (despite his quick IC title win, he was stuck with a crappy gimmick and some folks wanted him out of the company)
Mick Foley
Chris Jericho
CM Punk

There's probably even more. But is it fair to argue that generally Vince and the upper management folks don't really have much clue what to look for in a top guy that will end up being successful?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*



lesenfanteribles said:


> Has there been a Chris Jericho DVD before? I don't remember seeing that, I may have missed it if it exists already.


http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Code...&qid=1349456482&sr=8-2&keywords=chris+jericho


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Foley's getting one next year, it was on the wwe schedule and Foley confirmed it on twitter. HHH doc was on there too, but its been there for the last few years with no release .


I'm always skeptical with those lists. Wasn't Ted DiBiase supposed to have one released on a couple scheduled lists? That would have been interesting to watch. Hope they follow through with Triple H and Foley's.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Ordered Punk's DVD today 

Anyone else seen the statement on Silvervision? Seems they aren't bringing out new stuff after Summerslam, looks like the future is a little shaky. Hope they get sorted, just brought In Your House: DX off them


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I think they (Vince) always seen Rock as a top guy. From the time he walked into company, people having watched him said he was the next big star. (Meltzer talked about it a few months ago) Vince and Pat just didn't know how to use him and get him there.


----------



## ShinyaNaKano56 (Aug 17, 2012)

Hi guys, I have these DVD's for sale, they are all Region 2 PAL, if someone is interested, please PM me.

Summerslam 2000
Vengeance 2001
Royal Rumble 2002
Summerslam 2002
Judgment Day 2002
Royal Rumble 2003
Bad Blood 2003
Survivor Series 2003
No Mercy 2003
Baclkash 2003
Unforgiven 2003
Summerslam 2003
Hard Knocks Chris Benoit Story
Divas Desert Heat
Divas South Of The Border
Divas Do New York
History Of Wrestlemania I-IX
The Monday Night War
The Stone Cold Truth (NEW Sealed) 
Wrestlemania III Championship Edition (NEW Sealed)


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Clique said:


> Hart was nowhere near as great in WCW like he was in WWF but I always thought Bret/Flair from Souled Out 1998 was overlooked. On first watch years ago I was impressed by it because I had no expectations going in and they did a good job. Bret/Benoit from Mayhem 1999 is solid too but not at the level of the Owen Tribute match from Nitro in October. Check out Bret/Hennig from Uncensored '98. Bret and Curt always had fantastic chemistry but I'd recommend their WWF matches in the late 80s-early 90s first. Guess you can check out Bret/Savage from Slammboree 98 too.





Arnold Tricky said:


> Punk doc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTi1Jh2HaEs&feature=youtu.be





zep81 said:


> I also enjoy his match with Sting on Nitro (1999) and to an extent the one at Halloween Havoc 1998 too,
> 
> Wonder if any WCW matches will be on Bret's Unreleased Set, i havn't seen the ones with Flair and Savage from WCW myself....


Thanks!


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just finished the Punk doc. Really enjoyable watch which surprised me as I'm not the biggest Punk fan in the world. 
The Miz stuff bothered me a bit because it showed real sour grapes and Miz had worked damn hard to get into that position.

Certainly respect Punk a lot more after seeing this and the Doc as a whole was very well done and I would definitely rank it amongst the best docs put out by WWE


----------



## Amber B (Dec 9, 2007)

Watched the Punk DVD. It was good but maybe because he's already told his story through RF shoots, I didn't think it was one of the greatest DVDs ever. Two things that irked me: the excuses people (Hayes tries to sway the blame on others in charge but he was one of them but has gotten over it over the years) would make up for why he wasn't what they were looking for. Hayes is basically Jeff Hardy's Paul Heyman and should be the last person to say that someone shouldn't get a better spot because of their appearance.
They were basically finding any reason to keep the guy down simply because they weren't found of him personally, not professionally.
The other thing that bothered me was the sour grapes with the Miz. Get the fuck over it. You're "up here" now and he's "down there". Homeboy needs therapy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't get the "hate" for what he said about Miz tbh. Sour grapes? Maybe, but imo he was extremely justified because Miz has never and likely will never be deserving of the title and the main event spot at WM (and he proved it with his terrible reign and the awful WM match), PLUS, its not like he's the first person to complain about someone being in THAT spot over them. Austin did the same thing on his doc during the WCW part. Benoit and Eddie did it on their docs... also during the WCW part (lol). Loads of people have done it.

I'm just surprised (in a good way) that they let him essentially vent so much on the documentary. Gave it a far more real feel that helped make it one of the best docs I've seen.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since it's on youtube, I might just watch the Punk documentary just to see what all the buzz is about.

I've not seen so many of the docs but these are the ones I have seen:

Randy Orton (Evolution of a Predator)
John Cena (My Life)
Eddie Guerrero (Cheating Death, Stealing Life)
Edge (You Think You Know Me)
Chris Benoit (Hard Knocks)
The Rock (Epic Journey of Dwayne Johnson)

Don't remember any others but I'm downloading Stone Cold's Bottom Line right now and think I'm off to youtube to watch Punk's. Out of the ones I listed, my favorites were Benoit and Orton's.

On my list of ones I want to check out later are Rise and Fall of ECW, John Cena Experience, Bret Hart/HBK Screwjob and maybe Jake Roberts too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree with Cal tbh, the Miz comment can definitely read as un-needed in the grand scheme of the interview, but it served to emphasise Punk's disapproval with the company's philosophy with regards to top stars and his argument that no-one having a justifiable explanation for why Miz had usurped him felt like a strong reasoning for accentuating his impending 'pipebomb' promo and whole contract saga. I mean for a 'personal documentary' he could have really torn into Miz and gone about how much of an injustice he felt it was, but it served as a nice way to emphasise his belief he earned the top spot (especially as they focused on the formation and collapse of the SES prior to it) whilst acknowlodging Punk's well documented frustration at that point in time.

Found the Mercury story especially touching. I'd heard about Mercury's personal troubles but never would have expected Punk to have gone as far as he did in helping him try and get back on his feet. Not that I doubt Punk wouldn't go the extra mile for his friends, its just that personal sacrifice he made is exceptionally extraordinary under any circumstances.


----------



## NeyNey (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks for the Youtube-Link of the Punk Docu!! (Y)
It was AWESOME. 

I never thought I would be that surprised.


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

I watched the Punk Documentary last night I think it was the best documentary that WWE has produced in a while. About the Miz thing I don't think Punk should be to upset about that situation. Miz's bout with Cena was awful and the focal point of the entire feud wasn't the Miz it was the Rock's involvement with Cena. No doubt Punk would have been overshadowed by the Rock. His match and feud with Cena at the MITB was far more memorable and engaging than the Wrestlemania 27 main event.


----------



## Certified G (Feb 1, 2011)

Platt said:


> Highspots bought the right to use the footage they didn't buy exclusive use of it. Ian sold off the IWA library with the company name a few years ago. WWE most likely paid Smartmarkvideo for the rights to the footage. Although I did find it strange that they gave credit to ROH for their footage but nothing was done in regards to the IWA, JCW footage they showed.


Oh right, thanks for explaining that. I already found it strange reading they paid Ian to use the footage. And I noticed the same about the credit thing on ROH footage but not the IWA footage.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Amber B said:


> Watched the Punk DVD. It was good but maybe because he's already told his story through RF shoots, I didn't think it was one of the greatest DVDs ever. Two things that irked me: the excuses people (Hayes tries to sway the blame on others in charge but he was one of them but has gotten over it over the years) would make up for why he wasn't what they were looking for. Hayes is basically Jeff Hardy's Paul Heyman and should be the last person to say that someone shouldn't get a better spot because of their appearance.
> They were basically finding any reason to keep the guy down simply because they weren't found of him personally, not professionally.
> *The other thing that bothered me was the sour grapes with the Miz. Get the fuck over it. You're "up here" now and he's "down there". Homeboy needs therapy.*


Why is everyone complaining about him talking about Miz? He's over it now, he's just talking about his frustration with the company then. It's the same as him talking about the SES, he's just saying one of the reasons he was pissed at the company. Plus, he's sort of justified. If it had come out at that time that Punk was pissed, people would be sucking his dick. If you look at the storyline at that point, it made more sense for Punk to face Cena at 'Mania. Punk led Nexus and was feuding with Cena and never really had a blowoff. If you would've asked anybody on this forum who was the best heel in WWE at this point, the consensus would be Punk. But if people need a reason to bitch so be it..


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Undertaker 20-0 DVD is on netflix now. (Y)

vs Orton 21 - ****1/4
vs Edge 24 - ****1/2
vs HBK - 26 - *****

Just watched those three.


----------



## Amber B (Dec 9, 2007)

Coolquip said:


> Why is everyone complaining about him talking about Miz? He's over it now, he's just talking about his frustration with the company then. It's the same as him talking about the SES, he's just saying one of the reasons he was pissed at the company. Plus, he's sort of justified. If it had come out at that time that Punk was pissed, people would be sucking his dick. *If you look at the storyline at that point, it made more sense for Punk to face Cena at 'Mania.* Punk led Nexus and was feuding with Cena and never really had a blowoff. If you would've asked anybody on this forum who was the best heel in WWE at this point, the consensus would be Punk. But if people need a reason to bitch so be it..


Not really. At that time, Punk was not being pushed as the number one heel, it was the Miz and Nexus was as good as dead. The Miz had the title, not CM Punk. The story had more to do with Cena and the Rock anyway then it had to do with the title and Miz was an afterthought. If Punk was in that position with the Rock returning and outshining everyone, everyone on here would be bitching about Punk not getting the spotlight. Punk would also be bitching about the Rock stealing the spotlight from him. 
He was better off not being in that position at that time.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Amber B said:


> Not really. At that time, Punk was not being pushed as the number one heel, it was the Miz and Nexus was as good as dead. The Miz had the title, not CM Punk. The story had more to do with Cena and the Rock anyway then it had to do with the title and Miz was an afterthought. If Punk was in that position with the Rock returning and outshining everyone, everyone on here would be bitching about Punk not getting the spotlight. Punk would also be bitching about the Rock stealing the spotlight from him.
> He was better off not being in that position at that time.


I agree that Rock would outshine him probably. But, my point is that Punk is just pointing out a grievance he had with the company and one he had the right to be pissed about. If you knew you were better than the guy who was getting the biggest payday of the year and had proved it repeatedly, I'd imagine anybody would be pissed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The fucking Charles Robinson run during the Edge/Taker match is the most goddamn epic thing I've ever seen. Gets me every time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's like the longest sprint ever :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I should watch the Punk documentary just to see him crap on the Miz. Does anyone actually believe he was a worthy main eventer for Mania? Doubt they would have trusted him at all with it without the Rock being a drawing card there.


----------



## Jotunheim (Sep 25, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I should watch the Punk documentary just to see him crap on the Miz. Does anyone actually believe he was a worthy main eventer for Mania? Doubt they would have trusted him at all with it without the Rock being a drawing card there.


I saw him as a main eventer to be honest, he was a great heel back then........then the I quit match happened......and went to the toilet, deep deep to the freaking toilet


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh merciful christ :lmao


On the matter of Miz, meh if he was deserving of a run he's the sort of guy I think would suit May-July or September-December, aka the quieter spells where the newer guys are usually given a run. Just didn't have the in ring versatility or presence to really make himself feel like he belonged. I will say however he's probably the best possible opponent to have run a Jerry Lawler title program with, I don't think there's another young heel on the roster who matched up well enough as a polar opposite to Lawler.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Watched the Punk stuff, really good stuff. Didn't know about half the shit on here (Paying for Mercury's house, how high he was in SES, the Grandma trying to hit him :lmao). Nice to see Ambrose and Barrett. Only a few problems with it

- The Miz burial, seemed weird considering Miz was upping him the entire DVD. Besides, even if Punk was in that match, he would have complained (rightfully so, Miz will probably do the same if he ever does a shoot) that it was more Cena vs Rock than Cena vs Miz (or Punk)

- Hayes acting like he was 100% behind Punk the entire time which there's a 99.9% chance that wasn't the case

That's about it, honestly. Top 5 Doc at worst, Top 3 at best (Austin and ECW)


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> Oh merciful christ :lmao
> 
> 
> On the matter of Miz, meh if he was deserving of a run he's the sort of guy I think would suit May-July or September-December, aka the quieter spells where the newer guys are usually given a run. Just didn't have the in ring versatility or presence to really make himself feel like he belonged. I will say however he's probably the best possible opponent to have run a Jerry Lawler title program with, I don't think there's another young heel on the roster who matched up well enough as a polar opposite to Lawler.


That could've been his Mania feud. Just without the belt.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He was probably Lawler's best choice for a Title opponent because people could truly believe Lawler could beat him before the match even took place. How many times did the Miz win a WWE Title match cleanly? Sans Alex Riley, Michael Cole, or some form of bullshittery? He had so little credibility.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Coolquip said:


> That could've been his Mania feud. Just without the belt.


Well, the quality of the EC match shows they had a very good match in them, though how well it would have worked without the title I'm not so sure (there would have been a lot less heat in the big nearfalls). That being said anything's better than the aborted Cole match which honestly could have been an entertaining and amusing spectacle. Anyone who's watched Lawler vs Jimmy Hart from 1981 in Memphis knows Lawler can work a damn good match with a non wrestler and produce something watchable.

@*Yeah1993*: precisely. He was a cowardly and weasely loudmouth (pretty much a staple Lawler opponent) and he was booked so poorly that he really felt like the sort of guy who could lose to a veteran. I can only remember the Morrison FCA match as a notable big match in his reign, but bugger me if I can remember if he won clean.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Michael Cole thing should have been a five minute squash with Austin spending the whole match laughing at it. Who's idea was it to have a Michael Cole control period for what felt like thirty five minutes? Then Austin stuns everyone and shit. Even then I don't even know if it was as bad as Cena/Miz.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Pretty sure Malenko was the agent responsible for the layout, *awaits someone sarcastically commenting on the shock of a match layed out by Malenko not being as good as it could have been*.

Cole stooging and begging off, a few comedy spots with his offence having no effect on Lawler, some trademark Lawler punches and some form of humiliating finish and you have everything you need to make that match serve its purpose in the middle of the card and serve as a form of entertainment in between the bigger matches.

Cena/Miz I truthfully remember little about, though the teased countout and subsequent restart seemed really awful for a Wrestlemania main event. The sort of thing you can get away with on TV or maybe a B level PPV with some build (final match for the challenger, champion having won matches in a screwy fashion etc) but not on the biggest PPV of the year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I finished watching Punk's DVD. I admit I enjoyed it and have more respect for him than before (I always respected him just like every other wrestling that puts their body on the line, though) and was a nice little story seeing him come up from backyard wrestling to the top of the mountain. Kind of like Benoit's story except you don't think any tragic follow-ups. It also reminds me of how epic last summer truly was. I've been bored by Punk since then so much that it made me forget completely about that awesome period.

And speaking of Benoit, I find it funny that the HHH/Punk match is not on the DVD but in case they'll ever display it again anywhere, will they blur out the "Wish Benoit Was Here" sign? I assume they will considering the fact that "Trish Swallows" was blurred out (SummerSlam 2006) in Orton's DVD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My god, Lawler/Cole literally should've been a 15 second match where Lawler just hits a piledriver and celebrates with Austin. Seriously, it was fucking Wrestlemania.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

At the time Miz won the title i wanted Barrett to win the title and Cena to return and win RR, setting up Barrett/Cena for WM.
When Punk became the leader of Nexus i wanted Punk to win the title and Cena to win the RR, setting up Punk/Cena for WM.

I didn't think Orton/Punk was gonna take place until Miz cost Cena the RR, Cena/Miz was pretty much a lock after that.

I want from being elated that Miz won the title to not even buying WM till the last minute.

Now looking back i'm happy as hell Punk didn't win the title.



Segunda Caida said:


> He was a cowardly and weasely loudmouth (pretty much a staple Lawler opponent) and he was booked so poorly that he really felt like the sort of guy who could lose to a veteran. I can only remember the Morrison FCA match as a notable big match in his reign, but bugger me if I can remember if he won clean.
> 
> 
> Cena/Miz I truthfully remember little about, though the teased countout and subsequent restart seemed really awful for a Wrestlemania main event. The sort of thing you can get away with on TV or maybe a B level PPV with some build (final match for the challenger, champion having won matches in a screwy fashion etc) but not on the biggest PPV of the year.


Yeah the win was clean, Morrison missed a Starship Pain into a table than was hit with the Skullcrushing Finale.

I remembered nothing about the match before Cena speared Miz over the barricade.
I usually don't rewatch matches but i made this an exception, still have the same opinion that the match was one of the worst WM main events in recent memory.

I was only looking forward to Punk/Orton and Rock's involvement in the main event and bought th ppv at the last minute, but it was even worse than i thought it'd be.

The restart was made worse by Rock's long promo, why not just have him come out and Rock Bottom Cena ?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

without the first 2 matches and hhh/taker, Mania 27 would have been a bottom 5 WM imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit, I'm loving this Punk doc. It doesn't feel like a WWE production at all (I'm a little under half way through).


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

I gots to see the Austin doc, I REALLY liked the Punk doc. I have it above the ECW doc honestly (though a rewatch of ECW might change that). Seen the Punk doc twice and I really loved it. Need to find the special features. I really liked the talk of Hero/Punk and Joe/Punk. Though did anybody find the whole devil part with the SES hilariously creepy?


----------



## Amber B (Dec 9, 2007)

I'm so glad they included at least a snippet of the SES and Jericho vs Cow Palace house show incident. Hobo Punk was everything.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nothing pleases me more than hearing stories of Grandmas/elderly wrestling fans creating heat against a wrestler. I remember watching old World of Sport bouts and seeing elderly women barking orders at the babyfaces when the likes of Dynamite Kid were beating the piss out of them and stretching the rules to the very limit.

Can't forget that snippet from a Memphis documentary where one of the wrestlers talks about a riot that occurred during one show and claims to have seen a Grandma throwing her grandchild at the wrestler in the heat of the moment, now that's some freakin' heat!


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Amber B said:


> I'm so glad they included at least a snippet of the SES and Jericho vs Cow Palace house show incident. Hobo Punk was everything.


I think I was at one of the house shows around that time in Stockton; California. He called us the meth capital of the world. I was a little scared cause my brother and I were marking out for him and the guys next to us were talkin about jumping him. Lol, reminds me of the old days.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

The Bad Guy said:


> Could someone remind me how Paul bearer left the undertaker and started managing mankind? I've seen the ppv matches but the build up and feud itself is pretty hazy


Paul Bearer out of the blue hit the Undertaker with the urn at SummerSlam 1996 and sided with Mankind. There was no hint at all leading in to the PPV that it was going to happen. If I remember correctly there wasn't even any explanation as to why Bearer left the Undertaker. As for the build up to the Taker/Mankind PPV matches - from April of '96 Mankind kept interrupting Undertaker's matches and causing him to lose some and then they'd battle up the aisle way, in the back etc.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Fifteen years ago...*


*The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
WWF Badd Blood (October 5, 1997)*









*THE STORY has arrived full circle . . . *

*In Hell these men must come face to face with their demons.*

An unrelenting steel chair shot from special guest referee Shawn Michaels to Undertaker’s skull cost The Phenom the World Wrestling Federation Championship at the SummerSlam PPV two months prior to the brutal finality of this event. That was the spark that ignited this blood feud. 

The chaotic brawl at the Ground Zero PPV was uncontrollable, too many outside parties involved, and that’s why these two men are confined to a cell to unleash a vicious onslaught on each other. For Michaels, the match is not just about winning but to survive. For Undertaker, this is his opportunity to make Michaels pay for what he has cost him and take pleasure in showing no mercy as he gains his vengeance. Taker vowed that “Shawn Michaels would pay the ultimate price.” The cell hovered over the ring like an ominous chain-linked cloud. They were trapped with no escape from pure hell. RECOMPENSE is at hand in Hell in a Cell, not only for the sins of the Heart Break Kid but ultimately for the Deadman as well. No one leaves Hell unscathed – including a camera man and the referee. 

Taker did not run after Michaels because there was nowhere to go. Undertaker was like imminent death closing in on its victim Shawn Michaels --he can be slowed down but not stopped in this battle, and he is overwhelming. That is how I would describe Undertaker’s dominance in this match. Enclosed terror personified. Taker methodically, deliberately punished Michaels. Taker made it his mission to make the pain memorable. 

Shawn indeed did get his ass handed to him a plenty in this hell, but the man is still the pugnacious and resilient Showstopper and he did not go down without a fight. The match is largely one-sided with Taker punishing Michaels as it should have been. Nevertheless, Michaels capitalized on opportunistic moments to gain the advantage and showcase his destructive nature. So the match not a complete squash. How fitting was it for Shawn it crack a steel chair (the same weapon that caused this hell in the first place) across the spine of Taker to set-up a momentary decisive advantage. Taker getting bashed in the spine with steel steps and especially the piledriver to the stairs was sickening. 

Still in the face of so much adversity in this match Michaels took time to show off his arrogance because it the attitude he carries unapologetically. That’s why he assaulted the camera man without a care in the world for his welfare (really a reaction similar to a scared animal backed in a corner), and he will “tune up the band” to his destroyer if he must.

I LOVE that Undertaker sits up immediately after getting hit with Sweet Chin Music. It is a defining moment for Undertaker because he had entered another (possibly otherworldly) form and at that point he was like a terminator on a mission to end this nuisance once and for all. Undertaker WILL BE DAMNED before he allows Shawn Michaels to put him down again!










The cell is not only used as a thematic device to showcase no escape-no interference but the torturous chain-linked steel was creatively used as a weapon e.g. jumping elbow off the fence, suicide dive into steel, the grating of flesh, etc. The spot when Taker rammed Shawn headfirst into the cage like a javelin is as memorable a spot in HIAC to me as any. 

Shawn’s blade job here is remarkable. His crimson mask is an amazing visual of brutality. The blood flowed from his skull just as Taker had promised. Shawn’s beating on top of the cell and his fateful descent off the top through the announce table signified his Hell was inescapable in or out of the cell. What a classic moment built up so well to the big execution too with Taker stepping on Shawn’s hands before crashing down. The spot is fantastic because the bump looks brutal even though it wasn’t too complicated or dangerous to perform. Shawn’s fall took this bloodletting to an immensely climatic level toward an unforgettable finish that brought the story full circle.

Everything was amplified when they re-entered the cell, particularly Taker’s punishment of Michaels with the super chokeslam and the ULTIMATE PAYBACK spot with the steel chair shot to the skull! A just comeuppance for Shawn Michaels who awakened the beast through his actions with a steel chair. However, Undertaker would also have to pay for his past transgressions and the beast he had awakened too. Indeed Undertaker would be damned before allowing Shawn Michaels to gain another one over him. Damned to hell by the resurrected demon - his brother Kane in the greatest debut of all time. 

*“THAT’S GOTTA BE KANE!”*





Kane making his debut is the perfect ending to this saga. It is the perfect ending because Paul Bearer threatened and teased for months that Undertaker's mysterious brother would come back to destroy him, and it is finally here *in Hell* where Undertaker had to face his haunting demon. It could not have been more fitting.










Shawn Michaels crawled out of Hell, drenched in his own blood to slither his way to victory and became #1 Contender for the World Wrestling Championship. How appropriate a reward after everything he cost The Undertaker, and the suffering he had to endure to earn it. The storytelling is absolutely exceptional. The unstoppable and defiant were both devastated by the end of this hellacious war: The legendary story of Hell in a Cell. This match hit so many marks and featured so many elements from a storytelling standpoint that make it a true contender for greatest match of all time.

*5 Stars*
​


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FUCK YES CLIQUE (Y)(Y)(Y)

I too have the match at five and I may go watch it right now. :datass


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That match is ALL storytelling. That's what makes it the best Hell in a Cell. Some people might think that match is "weak" in terms of dangerous spots, but it wasn't about that. Undertaker turning Shawn into a living corpse like he did wasn't expected. It went above and beyond what anyone could have expected from it. Then the KANE debut. Phenomenal. How could that match have ended any other way? Legendary.


----------



## GrapplingAddict (Dec 12, 2011)

Is the new nWo DVD going to mention the Wolfpac? They were an important part part of the group's evolution, yet for some reason, the 2002 DVD made no mention of the Red and Black. 

Does anybody know?


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Taker and HBK arguably have three ***** matches together (and another couple that are ****1/2+). Amazing chemistry.


----------



## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

*CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*






This is the greatest DVD WWE has ever done, the documentary alone is worth the price of purchase. I've already watched it, but I'm gonna buy this without a doubt.


----------



## DoubleDeckerBar (Aug 10, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World 2012 - Full Documentary*

Wow, awesome, thanks. The OP is the GOAT.


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World 2012 - Full Documentary*

I find it hilarious that WWE are so slow to take these full-length documentaries down and yet if you upload a 4 minute promo from 1998 it gets taken down almost immediately


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

Watched it last night, very impressive. Should be buying the DVD very soon.


----------



## SandyRavage (Nov 11, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

It is a pretty great doc, best one since the Michaels one


----------



## Kelly Kelly fan (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

Everyone should be quick to watch this as WWE will soon notice it and take it down


----------



## TheAbsentOne (Jul 27, 2012)

Watched it today, loved it.

I was shocked that they mentioned RoH so much and even showed AND mentioned Joe.


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*



Ratedr4life said:


> This is the greatest DVD WWE has ever done, the documentary alone is worth the price of purchase. I've already watched it, but I'm gonna buy this without a doubt.


*It's quality, not sure if it's better than the Rise and Fall of ECW doc but it's very close. A must watch for any pro-wrestling fan.*


----------



## DoubleDeckerBar (Aug 10, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*



TheAbsentOne said:


> Watched it today, loved it.
> 
> I was shocked that they mentioned RoH so much and even showed AND mentioned Joe.


Punk stated that he demanded full control on the content of his DVD, so I'm not surprised.

Just finished watching it, great watch, just makes me an even bigger Punk fan. Cabana is right, he's a great babyface, but he's a fucking EPIC heel.


----------



## ConnorMCFC (Mar 12, 2012)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

Watched this morning. Fantastic documentary, someone above mentioned and i too was surprised they mentioned ROH so much, saying that, they can hardly be seen as a threat.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

Not sure this thread is allowed but whatever. This was the best DVD WWE has ever put out, by far. I'm not being completely biased, as I'm an Austin fan above all and found this DVD to be far more engaging and interesting than his DVD or any other by WWE. Absolutely loved the chronologically detailed story-telling from his very early days to MITB with brief looks at his current life sprinkled in-between. I can't believe they even let this be released as it is with all of the WWE criticism and Indy wrestling glorification involved. Goes to show the type of swing CM Punk has in that company now compared to say, when he was being jobbed out as the leader of Nexus just a few months prior to kicking off this "revolution". 10/10


----------



## EmoKidTV (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

Watched it . If only WWE would come for a house show in Romania like last year since if I buy it from their site the shipping costs more than the DVD......


----------



## Buckley (Apr 19, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

I'll wait for it to come out on Netflix


----------



## Loudness (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

Watching the Documentary right now, might be commenting on it later. Seems differently made than any other WWE DVDs so far, different style overall.


----------



## JJJ (Apr 12, 2012)

*Re: CM Punk: Best In The World - Full Documentary*

Got it streaming/downloading now so will probably watch it when I'm back at Uni. Really pumped up for this as I've heard nothing but good things about it.


----------



## ForestCrush (Aug 18, 2012)

SummerSlam 2012 was pretty bad


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Punk doc really felt like something WWE would never release. Hopefully years from now we see one from Bryan that highlights stuff like Bryan/KENTA.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Clique said:


> *Fifteen years ago...*
> 
> 
> *The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
> ...


:cheer

Awesome review, GOAT match in WWF/E history.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Bret/Benoit Owen Tribute match: **** 1/2
Bret/Benoit WCW Mayhem: *** 3/4
Bret/Benoit 6/22/98 Nitro: *** 1/4 (also lol at Schiavone calling a normal piledriver a tombstone)

going to watch more Bret WCW later


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Bret/Sting HH98: ** 3/4
Bret/Nash 1/10/00: ***

Going to watch Bret/Flair Souled Out 98 soon. Any matches I'm missing? Also, currently dling a WCW 98 PPV pack from XWT, should be good.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

So i just finished watching the CM Punk documentary.

BRILLIANT! all I can say. You got to watch it if you haven't


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Night Of Champions 2011

Air Boom vs Miz/Truth - ***1/4
DiBiase vs Rhodes - **3/4
Ziggler vs Morrison vs Swagger vs Riley - ***
Henry vs Orton - ***3/4
Kelly vs Phoenix - *1/2
Cena vs Del Rio - **3/4
Punk vs Triple H - ***1/2

Interesting show overall. Keeps your attention for the most part. I really enjoyed Orton/Henry more than I remembered. Henry fucking owned. Opening tag had a really nice quick pace to it. I enjoyed Rhodes/DiBiase. I still think Ted has a really nice move set and can work a good match. Four way was fun. Divas match wasn't dreadful. Cena/Del Rio was incredibly uneventful. Main event is a complete clusterfuck once Miz/Truth interfere but up until then it owned. Really sick elbow drop from Punk thru the table and that toss into the turnbuckle where he wrapped around the chair looked nasty. But once all that other shit happened, I really got taken out of it.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

After watching Punk's doc I think he is VERY lucky to be where he is right now. How can he call himself "Best in the World" when he has only main evented one PPV this year. I think WWE are waiting for Punk to quit more than anything and I still think he is too small to be considered a serious player, just get him in the ring with Lesnar, that will show where he stands.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Watched the ECW doc (Long ass doc too) and it's replaced Austin's bottom line doc as no 1.

Brilliant doc.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Had to laugh at the Punk dvd. The only people they get to comment on the biggest moment in Punk's WWE career ( the shoot promo) are Curt Hawkins and Kofi Kingston :lol . Would have been awesome to see HHH or Cena comment on it.


----------



## lesenfanteribles (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: Future DVD Releases*



zep81 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Code...&qid=1349456482&sr=8-2&keywords=chris+jericho


Thanks for this. I guess I missed this DVD in my collection.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The three best PPVs from the attitude era, IMO (Wrestlemania 14 - Wrestlemania 17)

*Fully Loaded 2000*
Team Xtreme vs. T&A - ***
Tazz vs. Al Snow - **
Perry Saturn vs. Eddie Guerrero - **3/4
APA vs. Edge and Christian - **1/4
Val Venis vs. Rikishi - ***
The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle - **3/4
Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - ****3/4 - GOAT Last Man Standing
The Rock vs. Chris Benoit - ****1/4

*Royal Rumble 2001*
The Dudley Boys vs. Edge and Christian - ***
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit - ****1/4 
Ivory vs. Chyna - **
Kurt Angle vs. Triple H - ***3/4
The Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 

*Wrestlemania 17*
Chris Jericho vs. William Regal - ***1/4
Tazz/APA vs. Right To Censor - **1/2
Kane vs. Raven vs. Big Show - ***1/2 - GOAT Hardcore Title Match
Eddie Guerrero vs. Test - ***
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - ***1/4
Chyna vs. Ivory - *1/2
Shane McMahon vs. Vince McMahon - ****
TLC - ****1/4
Gimmick Battle Royal - *1/4
The Undertaker vs. Triple H - ***3/4
Stone Cold vs. The Rock - *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 2000 doesn't help you re-find your love of wrestling?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Watched the ECW doc (Long ass doc too) and it's replaced Austin's bottom line doc as no 1.
> 
> Brilliant doc.


Nice to see you enjoyed it. Are you a fan of the original ECW? I think anyone can appreciate the story because it was so well produced and told by many of the people involved.


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

Could be wrong but isnt Rise and Fall of ECW the best selling dvd wwe have ever put out? recall reading that somewhere, well deserved too if true.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I seen some of the stuff ECW did as a kid, but I didn't see a lot of it. Mainly because it was hard to find on TV and the times slot where never the same.

But the doc was so well produced as you say and it went over all the big talking points and their biggest stars. Whats the WCW R&F doc like?


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Whats the WCW R&F doc like?


Havent seen it in ages but pretty poor from what I recall, pure WWE revisionist history, not a patch on the ECW one.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Really good with the history of JCP (Jim Crockett Promotions) and early 90's WCW, but half assed on late 90's WCW - fall of the company. The match list is very good but even that could have been better considering the library they have.


----------



## ForestCrush (Aug 18, 2012)

*Extras on WWE DVD's*

Back in 2003, the DVD's were loaded with extras. Nowadays we get 1 half-assed interview if we are lucky. 




Has anyone noticed the wwe getting cheaper with the extras?


----------



## dddsssccc (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: Extras on WWE DVD's*

Yeah, I noticed this too. I got away from buying the DVD's for a few years but picked up a bunch of them recently to update my collection. I was disappointed with the extras since I can remember earlier DVD's giving you extra matches from either the pre-show or Raw/Smackdown. I can remember a few DVDs with a classic extra match from an earlier version of the PPV. One of the ECW One Night Stand DVD's got you the whole first ever ECW PPV from the 90's as an extra disk. Now it's pretty much a lame backstage interview like you said. The DVD's have been selling at some of the lowest prices I can remember though so it's hard to complain too much but I miss getting better extras.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Since they went HD it takes up more data on the discs so there isn't space for many extras.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Absolutely loved Rise & Fall of ECW. Would like to see a shoot for just Heyman and Bischoff yelling at each other for 2 hours, tbh.


----------



## TN Punk (Nov 10, 2009)

Platt said:


> Since they went HD it takes up more data on the discs so there isn't space for many extras.


That isn't true at all.


----------



## Derek (Jan 24, 2004)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Had to laugh at the Punk dvd. The only people they get to comment on the biggest moment in Punk's WWE career ( the shoot promo) are Curt Hawkins and Kofi Kingston :lol . Would have been awesome to see HHH or Cena comment on it.


Triple H says in the doc that was his breakthrough moment and his launching pad.

The doc is fantastic, which I feel is the general consensus on here. Seen it twice and its not stopping me from buying the DVD.


----------



## SteenIsGod (Dec 20, 2011)

Punk DVD was Phenomenal, very insightful. Although I find it funny that they talk about how he was the champion in the middle of the show with no recognition, It's still the same, nothing has changed.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Just watched back Taker Vs Michaels from Royal Rumble 1998 awesome ending with Kane setting the casket on fire I can remember almost crying as a kid Taker was my hero and god you can feel it when HBK breaks his back.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

It is safe to say that the two greatest matches in WWE history are Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin Wrestlemania 97 & Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Hell in a Cell match Badd Blood 97


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

The Hardcore Show said:


> It is safe to say that the two greatest matches in WWE history are Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin Wrestlemania 97 & Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Hell in a Cell match Badd Blood 97


Those two matches and HBK/'Taker at Wrestlemania 25 seem to be the general consensus when it comes to GOAT matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I honestly prefer Taker/HBK 26 over 25. But I like the HIAC more than both.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Meh, my top three GOAT WWE matches would be;

1 - Taker/Shawn HIAC 
2 - Rey/Eddie SD 6/23/2005
3 - Eddie/JBL JD 2004


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Brye said:


> I honestly prefer Taker/HBK 26 over 25. But I like the HIAC more than both.


I prefer the 25 match myself. I think 26 suffers from "The Sequel Factor". For instance, when HBK kicks out of the Tombstone at 25 it's shocking, when it happens at 26, it's sort of expected. It's not their fault, it just happens. Plus Takers fucking dive scared the shot out of me and is an incredible spot. 

25: *****
26: ****3/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I think there's personal GOAT's and undoubted GOAT matches.

Undoubted: HBK/Taker HIAC, HBK/Taker WM 25 & 26 and Austin/Bret WM 13.

Personal for me GOAT: Cena/Punk MITB 11. The match that got me back into wrestling and made me realise the WWE can churn out some gold when they feel like it.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

1. Austin/Bret WM13
2. HBK/Taker WM25
3. Angle/Benoit RR03
4. HBK/Taker BB
5. Rock/Austin WM17


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I REALLY need to check out HIAC Taker/HBK. Was planning to do it a few months ago but for some reason never got around to it.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Any other great doc's that people rate highly?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Any other great doc's that people rate highly?


The HBK one is really good. But I think I still preferred his book. Jericho's is also pretty good.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

We listed a few recommendations the other day:



Clique said:


> Rise & Fall Of ECW
> Steve Austin: The Bottom Line...
> History of the World Heavyweight Championship
> Triumph & Tragedy of WCCW
> ...





KingCal said:


> Top WWE Docs:
> 
> 1. Roberts
> 2. Austin
> ...


Also, Greatest Rivalries: Hart vs. Michaels. Batista's was surprisingly good imo.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks. I'll download a few in the morning.

Are all of them on XWT?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The Rise and Fall of ECW doc is the only thing WWE has ever produced that could be considered award worthy.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

My download of every episode of Smackdown in 2006 has just finished... :mark: :mark: :mark

So fucking excited :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> My download of every episode of Smackdown in 2006 has just finished... :mark: :mark: :mark
> 
> So fucking excited :mark: :mark: :mark:


Where did you find it?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Brye said:


> Where did you find it?


XWT probably

I'm currently downloading every WCW PPV from 96 to 98 from there


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Smackdown 2006 is hands the greatest year of any brand/show from 2000-2012. Roster was stacked to high heaven and even though feuds and pay per view wise it might not have been enthralling, the weekly ratio of good-very good matches was insane. Finlay, Taker, Hardy, Benoit, Regal, MNM, Orton, Mysterio etc etc the list just keeps on going.

Also features one of the best World Title bouts WWE has ever put on TV or PPV in Orton/Mysterio from April 6th. Legit at worst a top 5 WHC title match in my eyes and it only gets better on every rewatch. Actually trying to think of WHC matches I could call better and I can only really think of Angle/Taker from NWO 2006 as a clear standout, but even then whilst I'd call Angle/Taker the 'better' match, Orton/Mysterio is still something I'd call a personal favourite and a match I think higher of than Angle/Taker, if that makes any sense.

Benoit/Finlay 5/5 and 11/24 are also two of the best TV matches in WWE history, hell probably in a top 20 of matches from the company's past decade.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship PPV Matches Ever : 60-51*


60.









The Undertaker vs Batista (Chairs Match ; TLC 2009) : **** 1/4*


59.









CM Punk vs JBL (Summerslam 2008) : **** 1/4*


58.









JBL vs Batista vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane vs Chris Jericho (Scramble Match ; Unforgiven 2008) : **** 1/4*


57.









Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Santino Marella vs The Great Khali vs The Big Show (Elimination Chamber ; Elimination Chamber 2012) : **** 1/2*


56.









Edge vs Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 2008) : **** 1/2*


55.









Triple H vs Randy Orton (Royal Rumble 2005) : **** 1/2*]


54.









CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (Night of Champions 2009) : **** 1/2*


53.









King Booker vs Batista vs Finlay vs Bobby Lashley (No Mercy 2006) : **** 1/2*


52.









Mark Henry vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell ; Hell in a Cell 2011) : **** 1/2*


51.









Triple H vs Kevin Nash (Hell in a Cell ; Bad Blood 2003) : **** 1/2*


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

There was only one problem with your list man I don't think Edge/Chris Jericho cage match was for the World title


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> My download of every episode of Smackdown in 2006 has just finished... :mark: :mark: :mark
> 
> So fucking excited :mark: :mark: :mark:


I've just started downloading SD 2006 and got plenty to go but I'm over halfway through with DLing 2005 (missing 4 episodes though). DLed all Raw from 05 and 06, can't wait till I watch them!



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> 58.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, that was not a title match. The WHC match that PPV was Jack Swagger vs Randy Orton.

Excited for the rest of the list.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Come on Guys. Give him a break. He is a child of divorce.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Downloading Smackdown pack of '08 right now. Just from what I remember it's an underrated year for matches. Hoping to find some gems.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Is HBK's 99 shoot worth watching?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

...........WOW


I mean, how did I possibly fuck THAT up ? Meant to say Jericho-Edge from Wrestlemania, but I was watching the Punk-Hardy Cage match from Smackdown in the process.... Going to edit it soon.... SMH

PS: That Cage match is AWESOME... ***** 1/4* from me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Totally agree on Punk/Hardy OWNING. (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I got the 06 SmackDowns from XWT. 



Segunda Caida said:


> Also features one of the best World Title bouts WWE has ever put on TV or PPV in Orton/Mysterio from April 6th. Legit at worst a top 5 WHC title match in my eyes and it only gets better on every rewatch.


I'd say this is the best WWE WHC match pretty comfortably.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its definitely my favourite, would have to rewatch Angle/Taker from NWO to be absolutely certain where it stands re: the best though. I'm pretty sure Angle/Taker impresses me so much not only because its a legit great match in its own right, but when you take in how often Angle was a 'miss' rather than a 'hit' in big main events its incredible to see how good of a match he was in. The same reasoning is why I really adore Angle/Austin from Summerslam, both men put in excellent performances in their own right and the story is super, but seeing how far better than 95% of Angle's matches it is it makes the match feel even better in my eyes and is why I'd put it in the top bracket of matches in company history.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Another interesting batch for the list, though probably the batch I disagree most to this point. Only matches I agree with where they are are Punk/Hardy NOC, and Edge/Rey RR. Also I'd agree with Edge/Jericho ER, but since it appears it's the WM match you mean, I actually have that match higher. The rest I have lower, especially HHH/Nash BB and Taker/Batista Chairs match.

Looking forward to more disagreeing!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Its definitely my favourite, would have to rewatch Angle/Taker from NWO to be absolutely certain where it stands re: the best though. I'm pretty sure Angle/Taker impresses me so much not only because its a legit great match in its own right, but when you take in how often Angle was a 'miss' rather than a 'hit' in big main events its incredible to see how good of a match he was in. The same reasoning is why I really adore Angle/Austin from Summerslam, both men put in excellent performances in their own right and the story is super, but seeing how far better than 95% of Angle's matches it is it makes the match feel even better in my eyes and is why I'd put it in the top bracket of matches in company history.


Yeah, Angle/Taker is definitely a great match. I said recently 06 SD Angle might be my favourite Angle and this was the #2 match of his career by a hell of a lot. #1 is SummerSlam 01, obv, but I'm trying to think of #3 and I can't think of any match that's near as good as the match with Taker. SummerSlam 02 v Rey might be #3, but Id take the Taker match over it EASILY. I used to prefer the Taker match from 03 to NWO 06, but it's probably been three years since I've watched it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, Angle/Taker is definitely a great match. I said recently 06 SD Angle might be my favourite Angle and this was the #2 match of his career by a hell of a lot. #1 is SummerSlam 01, obv, but I'm trying to think of #3 and I can't think of any match that's near as good as the match with Taker. SummerSlam 02 v Rey might be #3, but Id take the Taker match over it EASILY. I used to prefer the Taker match from 03 to NWO 06, but it's probably been three years since I've watched it.


Off the top of my head, Summerslam 2002 vs Rey, Smackdown 2003 vs Taker and maybe one of the Austin TV bouts (they seemed to have a shit load of very good TV matches on and off from 01-02) would be Angle's third best WWF/E match behind the obvious Summerslam 2001 and No Way Out 2006 matches. Didn't Cal have the 03 Taker/Angle match incredibly high on his WWE ballot? I know he's a huge fan of it and on last watch whilst I had it a little lower than he did in regards to 'Best TV match ever' its still a superb TV match and definitely an example of Taker being a consistently strong opponent for Angle.

Pretty sure Cal was a big fan of their SD 2006 match, though I honestly can't recall much about it other than thinking its another strong edition in their 06 series. No Mercy 2003 vs Cena also seems to be a fairly popular 'rarely talked about match', think Crossface wrote a scorching review at the other place and really dug it, though I can't recall how recent it was (may actually have been for the WWF/E poll). Pretty sure there's one Benoit match that isn't the Rumble encounter which Andy/Cal/Crossface and others dig ahead of their others, I want to say Unforgiven 2002 but I might be talking out of my arse there.

I haven't seen the SD Ironman vs Lesnar in forever but that could also be a contender for 4th/5th/6th best Angle match. At the very least it seems more appealing than either Michaels match or the Benoit series.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Benoit/Kurt matches were crap. Royal Rumble 2003 wasnt a wrestling match, it was a ballet recital

Better leave now before all the Kurt and WWE psycho fanboys converge on this thread


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RR03 was a classic. The constant submission exchanges are unforgettable. The way they were countered and all. Plus Benoit hit one of his best headbutts ever from 3 corners away if I recall correctly. Just an all-round enjoyable match that is over before you expect it because you really get into it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like the Austin TV matches, but wouldn't rate them that high. I did forget the 3/3/06 match with Taker, though. That match fucking rules. If it isn't the #3 Angle match it's #4 or 5.



Redead said:


> Benoit/Kurt matches were crap. Royal Rumble 2003 wasnt a wrestling match, it was a ballet recital
> 
> Better leave now before all the Kurt and WWE psycho fanboys converge on this thread


I'd say they only really had one bad match - the cage on Raw. Mania 17 was kinda boring, but not bad. Backlash and Insurextion 2001 (w/e the fuck it's called) I liked. I also liked the three stages of hell, but the last fall (that ladder match fall) was really shitty. Been a while since I've watched Unforgiven 02 and Rumble 03, but that'd have to be their best matches. I was going to watch RR again when I had the RR03 DVD in for HHH/Steiner, but that's an untouchable classic that would have eclipsed anything after it (PS THAT'S the best WWE WHC match, btw). Their chemistry is really overrated and I don't think they ever had a MOTYC or anything, but most of their matches were fine.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Angle/Benoit RR 03 is the greatest match of all time for me, though no other Angle/Benoit match comes close or that I would call a classic.

Also in regards to Taker/Angle NWO 06, 5 stars, 5th greatest match of all time for me, best WHC match and Angle's 2nd best match.. I love the match more and more each time I watch it. Love it for the same reason I love Angle/Benoit. Also besides HBK, I'd say Angle is Taker's best opponent. While their two PPV matches in 2000 left much to be desired, from 2002 on I struggle to find a match between them I consider less than ****.

Taker/Angle NWO 06- *****
SD03- ****3/4
Vengeance Triple Threat with Rock- ****1/2 (if you count this)
SD06- ****1/4
SD02- ****

Amazing chemistry between them. Shame we never saw them go at it at WM.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I found the Royal Rumble match dull, uniteresting, boring and devoid of any emotion of urgency

Partly its because I knew Benoit wasnt going to win, but still. I just felt nothing. To me it looked like two guys going through the motions.

They could hit a million submission holds for all I care but neither guy looked that interested in the match, there didnt appear to be much of a story. It wasnt a fight. And it certainly didnt look one over the WWE title. It was just two guys grabbing each other in cool looking ways

meh


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I like the Austin TV matches, but wouldn't rate them that high. I did forget the 3/3/06 match with Taker, though. That match fucking rules. If it isn't the #3 Angle match it's #4 or 5.
> 
> I'd say they only really had one bad match - the cage on Raw. Mania 17 was kinda boring, but not bad. Backlash and Insurextion 2001 (w/e the fuck it's called) I liked. I also liked the three stages of hell, but the last fall (that ladder match fall) was really shitty. Been a while since I've watched Unforgiven 02 and Rumble 03, but that'd have to be their best matches. I was going to watch RR again when I had the RR03 DVD in for HHH/Steiner, but that's an untouchable classic that would have eclipsed anything after it (PS THAT'S the best WWE WHC match, btw). Their chemistry is really overrated and I don't think they ever had a MOTYC or anything, but most of their matches were fine.


Its either a January 01 or 02 match that I know Rickey, Seabs and a couple of others really dig (like 4 stars on ye old star ratings system).

On last watch I was actually quite surprised how tame/subpar I actually found the Benoit/Angle mat wrestling in the Rumble encounter. Maybe I had it confused with another of their matches (I recall mania 17 having a more extensive mat wrestling portion) but when I actually watched it I never really found many of their counter wrestling and hold trading to be all that 'amazing'. Like I think Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal absolutely destroy that match when it comes to the quality of hold for hold trading and mat wrestling counters.

Rumble match isn't my cup of tea but it does have a couple of redeeming qualities, main one being it really feels like Benoit's star blossoming into a main event wrestler, especially considering the break between this match and the Edmonton Austin match in 01 and how the injury took away the momentum he built up in May 2001. I just find the whole suplex-suplex parity and then later submission parity spots to just be too overblown and not done nearly as well as other matches which aim to build the match around 'wrestling' but achieve parity in a far more structured and logical fashion (Benoit/Finlay being the crem de la creme here). Plus I've really grown to hate the recurring spots in their matches where one guy eats 2 germans only to counter on the 3rd one: I realise this statement will draw in 'you look too deep into the match' criticisms but I find it to basically piss on the 2 germans by rendering them obsolete (to me if you take 2 germans you shouldn't be countering into 2/3 of your own seconds later) as well as being highly illogical: i.e surely you'd counter the first german attempt rather than the last.

Mehh I should stop before I give myself a brain freeze or something.


(Edit): Austin and Taker are Angle's best opponents by a country mile, Mysterio would be a distant third and then I'd probably call Jarrett a better opponent for Angle than HBK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On a different note, I just finished watching Benoit vs Malenko at Hog Wild 1996 (WCW). I rate it at ****. Great, great mat wrestling that goes for about 30 minutes without getting boring although the time limits did take away from it a little. Also lol @ Nancy's little interference towards the end. I have to check out some more of Malenko's stuff as well as pre-WWE Benoit. Oh and one more thing I noticed is how much no-selling is done in the two WCW matches from Benoit I've seen (Owen tribute with Bret Hart being the other one). Piledrivers are given and kicked out of at two like they're absolutely nothing.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Just watched the Punk doc.. Makes me wish Jesus SES Punk so much.

I love the little Joey Mercury story


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

vs Eddie 11/18/95 (one of the best sub 10 minute matches of all time)
vs Jericho 12/31/96 (one of the best sub 5 minute matches of all time)
vs Kevin Sullivan GAB FCA 1996
vs 2 Cold Scorpio (Superbrawl 1993)
vs Meng 1997

Those would be the essential Benoit WCW matches to watch IMO. He has a few really good Finlay matches which are great for the time they get, though sadly they never really get a real lengthy match like they did in 2006 on Smackdown.

As for Malenko, I really can't think of a better match he's had than the Norman Smiley Saturday Night match: sub 10 minute match packed full of really snug and unco-operative grappling/mat wrestling and without some of the more annoying pitfalls which dominate Malenko singles matches.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Segunda Caida said:


> vs Eddie 11/18/95 (one of the best sub 10 minute matches of all time)
> vs Jericho 12/31/96 (one of the best sub 5 minute matches of all time)
> vs Kevin Sullivan GAB FCA 1996
> vs 2 Cold Scorpio (Superbrawl 1993)
> ...


The Owen tribute match has to be in there imo. Just watched it for the first time last night, **** 1/2 stars


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Meh, Bret doesn't do much for me these days. Its not like they did a lot of things badly, but its just not the sort of match style I'm compelled to watch again and again. Matches I listed are shorter and feature Benoit at his bumping and violent best (Meng and Sullivan matches), Scorpio match is a great technician vs high flyer match and the Eddie/Jericho matches are superb balls to the wall sprints with some super selling in the Eddie match in particular.

If I was just listing general Benoit WCW matches, then aye the Bret match should be included. Though tbh I was listing matches that I personally considered his better matches.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Segunda Caida said:


> Meh, Bret doesn't do much for me these days. Its not like they did a lot of things badly, but its just not the sort of match style I'm compelled to watch again and again. Matches I listed are shorter and feature Benoit at his bumping and violent best (Meng and Sullivan matches), Scorpio match is a great technician vs high flyer match and the Eddie/Jericho matches are superb balls to the wall sprints with some super selling in the Eddie match in particular.
> 
> If I was just listing general Benoit WCW matches, then aye the Bret match should be included. Though tbh I was listing matches that I personally considered his better matches.


One of the main reasons I included that match is because it's (sadly) the only Bret WCW match above **** unless I'm missing something. It's by far the best Bret WCW match, and top 10 at worst for Benoit in WCW.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bret doesn't have many matches worth watching in WCW, I recall a Sting match from 98 or 99 that a few people seemed to really dig but I can't say I'm inclined to watch it since Bret in that time period isn't terribly exciting to me, and Crow Sting whilst being a refreshing/edgy character made for a really shitty worker compared to his 89-94 Surfer Sting persona.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Segunda Caida said:


> Bret doesn't have many matches worth watching in WCW, I recall a Sting match from 98 or 99 that a few people seemed to really dig but I can't say I'm inclined to watch it since Bret in that time period isn't terribly exciting to me, and Crow Sting whilst being a refreshing/edgy character made for a really shitty worker compared to his 89-94 Surfer Sting persona.


I watched their HH98 match and rated it ** 3/4, really shitty ending and nothing special throughout. I know they have a Nitro match in 98 too, not sure if they have any others.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of Bret in WCW, I watched a Nitro match against Hogan the other day. According to Bret, that was supposed to be the Nitro 98 main event with Bret getting the title. To think, with some coherent booking WCW could potentially (well...WOULD) still be alive today. What a waste of one of the greatest talents of all the time in Bret.

How does he go from one of wrestling's all time greatest years from an individual performer (1997 was also Bret's best year from a character standpoint as he truly was a polarizing individual) , to the fuck-fest that was 1998. 

Bret-Benoit still rocks though, ***** 1/4* from me.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm in sort-of agreement with those underwhelmed by Angle-Benoit RR03. I like the match a lot (****1/4 for me) but it doesn't accelerate into that next level of heart-stopping theater like HBK-Taker, Bret-Austin, Eddie-Rey, Flair-Steamboat, HHH-Foley, Cena-Punk or any of the other consensus GOAT matches. I guess it all depends on what you want from a match as a viewer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Redead said:


> I found the Royal Rumble match dull, uniteresting, boring and devoid of any emotion of urgency
> 
> Partly its because I knew Benoit wasnt going to win, but still. I just felt nothing. To me it looked like two guys going through the motions.
> 
> ...


I'm that way with the Angle/Michaels match from WrestleMania 21. Don't see what was appealing in that one.



Segunda Caida said:


> vs Eddie 11/18/95 (one of the best sub 10 minute matches of all time)
> vs Jericho 12/31/96 (one of the best sub 5 minute matches of all time)
> vs Kevin Sullivan GAB FCA 1996
> vs 2 Cold Scorpio (Superbrawl 1993)
> ...


The Finlay/Benoit matches were still good. Slamboree '98 being the main one. 14 minutes and they gave us something worth while(***3/4). First time Benoit took the suicide dive into the chair spot...unless he did it upon a random ECW/Japan match. 

Which Meng match are you referring to? They had two on PPV that year and they both run through my mind. Youtube is calling my name to settle this.

Oh, Benoit vs Sullivan from Superbrawl '97 is another superbly short bout. Swandive headbutt spot onto both Sullivan & Jacqueline. Radical. Fans ate that up so much.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Which Meng match are you referring to? They had two on PPV that year and they both run through my mind. Youtube is calling my name to settle this.


GAB and Slamboree


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Slamboree Benoit/Meng fucking rules. Benoit v DDP from SuperBrawl 98 would absolutely be an essential Benoit-In-WCW-Match as well. The Raven match at Souled Out 98 is probably the second best Raven match ever, and the Benoit/DDP/Raven three-way is also really good. Benoit also has really great short TV matches with Guerrero and Finlay in 1997. Hell, there's a million good Guerrero/Benoits in WCW. Every match with Booker T is good, and I've seen probably 13 of them. There's an Eddie/Jericho v Benoit/Malenko match from a 98 house show that I liked a ton. Every time he tagged with Bobby Eaton was a good time. Totally carries Sid to what's probably his best match at Souled Out 2000. Fall Brawl 96 v Jericho is really good. Souled Out 99 v Mike Enos is really good. The 9/20/99 Sting match is terrific and a top five Nitro match ever. There's two awesome Benoit/Mongo McMichael v Eddie/Jarrett matches which are two of the better Nitro matches ever. I forgot the Benoit/Finlay from June 98, which would also be a top ten Nitro match (unless it happened on Saturday Night IDFR- the match fucking rules either way). This is all going off of memory and I'd be forgetting a lot, but yeah, Benoit kicked some serious butt cheeks in WCW. I'd say there's quite a bit of "Don't Miss" for WCW Benoit.

Also IDK about Benoit and Fit not getting enough time on PPV - they got 15 minutes at Slamboree 98, which was the second longest match on that show.




Segunda Caida said:


> On last watch I was actually quite surprised how tame/subpar I actually found the Benoit/Angle mat wrestling in the Rumble encounter. Maybe I had it confused with another of their matches (I recall mania 17 having a more extensive mat wrestling portion) but when I actually watched it I never really found many of their counter wrestling and hold trading to be all that 'amazing'. Like I think Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal absolutely destroy that match when it comes to the quality of hold for hold trading and mat wrestling counters.


I would be baffled if the mat work in the Benoit/Angle is any good. They do some nice counters and all, but is it really "mat wrestling" at all? I don't need "mat wrestling" for the match to be good, though. I should watch the match later today.

As far as Angle's best opponent's goes, I wouldn't have HBK anywhere. They didn't have a single match that was one tenth as good as Angle's match with Marty Jannetty. That match also falls under the 'fucking rules' category.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Its the same thing people always say

Kurt excels when he wrassles someone old school

Simple as that

I can only imagine how a Kurt Angle match vs Funk or Lawler in memphis could go over


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Redead said:


> Its the same thing people always say
> 
> Kurt excels when he wrassles someone old school


I've never heard anybody say that.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Well its pretty assumed

Look at the guys Kurt got his best work. All of them old school wrasslers


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Depends what you mean by 'old school', but I wouldn't say Austin, Taker, or Rey are old school.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Not Rey. Taker, Austin, Janetty and Jarrett. They're all more traditional southern wrestlers, who all have atleast some experience in the territory system. More of a grasp of the basics and fundamentals.

They ground Kurt and force him to slow down and focus

Except for his match vs rey and Janettty, those were just great because Kurt was being a dick


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Kinda fucked up earlier, but with so many matches and so little time, what else should I expect ? Let's keep the proverbial ball rolling here...

*The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship Matches Ever ; 50-41*


50.









Mark Henry vs The Big Show (Survivor Series 2011) : **** 1/2*


49.









The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 2010) : **** 1/2*


48.









Edge vs Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match; Extreme Rules 2009) : **** 1/2*


47.









Edge vs Alberto Del Rio (Wrestlemania XXVII) : **** 1/2*


46.









The Undertaker vs Batista vs Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk (Bragging Rights 2009) : **** 1/2*


45.









Randy Orton vs Mark Henry (Night of Champions 2011) : **** 1/2*


44.









The Undertaker vs CM Punk (Hell in a Cell ; Hell in a Cell 2009) : **** 1/2*


43.









Randy Orton vs Christian (Capitol Punishment 2011) : **** 1/2*


42.









The Undertaker vs Edge (Backlash 2008) : **** 1/2*


41.









Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho (Over the Limit 2012) : **** 1/2*


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Fall Brawl 1997:

Eddie vs Jericho (c) for the Cruiserweight title: LOL at putting up Harlem Heats name during Eddie's entrance at the start. Very nice heat for Eddie here, he was brilliant throughout the entire match. Also liked how when the crowd chanted "boring" they picked up the pace, great fucking match. **** 1/2

Harlem Heat vs the Steiners: :lmao at how Scott looks and their theme. Some nice spots throughout the match, ending was bad though. Crowd was hot throughout the match, ***

Ultimo Dragon vs Alex Wright (c) for the Television title: First two minutes felt exactly like Eddie/Jericho, Wright/Eddie's "attitude change", both shutting their ears, leaving the ring at the start, etc. Match went on about 5 minutes too long, and what a shame Dragon had to carry that jobber (and did a damn good job of it). I forgot how bad Wright was, *** 1/4

Jarrett vs Malenko: ***, match was boring but then really picked up toward the end.

Wrath & Mortis vs Faces of Fear: Meng and Barbarian were really kicking ass this match and got the only crowd reaction, should have won. ** 3/4

(lol at Mongo's shitty promo and Benoit being his usual self, thank god for Flair saving this segment)

The Giant vs Scott Norton: 1/2 * just for Show's kip up. He was pretty over or at least he was for this match

DDP & Luger vs Hall/Savage: *** 1/2, what an atmosphere. Hall's antics were fucking great here too.

WCW vs NWO: :lmao at how clueless Mongo looked, looked like a fucking deer in headlights. Benoit get's the MOTM performance here though, and Hennigs turn shocked the shit out of the crowd (although lol at when Nash said "DEATH OF THE HORSEMEN, IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD!!" there were some cheers). *** 3/4 mainly due to Benoit and Hennig

Overall: *** 1/2. Only really shitty match here was Giant vs Norton, Eddie/Jericho is a must watch and the ending of the Hall/Savage vs DDP/Luger match was great just for how hot the crowd were, saw some garbage thrown into the ring as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Jericho from Fall Brawl = :mark: :mark: :mark: 

Holy SHIT I mark during the entire bout.

As far as that World Championship list goes, I can't believe Show/Henry from Survivor Series 2011 made it. Lets have them go 13 minutes and then end in a DQ. Ugh. That one was so bad.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm with Hailsabin... I just instinctively thought that match was Henry/Show from Vengeance, not realizing you put that as their SVS match. But as far as the rest of the list though, don't disagree with as much as the last 10. Taker/Edge is probably the only one I have a considerable bit higher than you (if you consider **** considerably higher), but everything else is within 1/4* or exactly the same as me. Only other thing that kinda sticks out to me is the fatal four way at BR 09 and Taker/Punk HIAC and them being above Taker/Rey, and Taker/Rey I consider easily Taker's best match besides HBK at WM26 during that run of his from Summerslam 09-WM26.

Rey is actually another person I thought had great chemistry with Taker. I think a match between them in 05-07 given enough time could've been a classic.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Mark Henry vs. Big Show Survior Series No. 50?!? 

Wat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It seems to be a puzzling choice. As does, for me at least, Hardy/Edge ladder match being rated so low. I thought that one was really well done. Not as good as Punk/Hardy TLC, but still pretty darn good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Anybody in here watch NXT? Drew/Steamboat from last week is a very nice match imo. Looking forward to when Ohno and Steamboat finally lock it up again, hopefully in a NODQ or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched the first episode. Loved it...yet I'm still WAYYY behind. Tyler Black, Chris Hero, & the ASCENTION. Yeah, I should be watching non-stop.

Isn't Brodie Lee *Luke Harper* showing up too?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Anybody in here watch NXT? Drew/Steamboat from last week is a very nice match imo. Looking forward to when Ohno and Steamboat finally lock it up again, hopefully in a NODQ or something.


Ooooo, Drew and Steamboat? Gonna have to give that a watch. I should keep checking the matches for NXT every week to see when Drew wrestles.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

NXT is my favorite WWE show now. Even the fucking Divas matches are watchable and actually very good at times. Paige vs. Alicia Fox from 2 weeks ago is one of the better diva matches I've seen. Rollins/McGillicutty for the NXT title next week. Ascension are boss. The tag action on NXT is unreal. Ascension and Uso's have had a couple of crackers. Slater and Gabriel had a great match a few weeks ago too for that matter. It's an awesome show.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

So the wrestlers don't try and chat up the Diva's anymore? Or the show is book like a bad Celeb love island?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NXT is basically FCW 2.0 now. None of that NXT season winner crap.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I'm that way with the Angle/Michaels match from WrestleMania 21. Don't see what was appealing in that one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah can't say I care for any Angle/Michaels match, watch the Jannetty match as *Yeah1993* says however, infinitely better.

Both PPV matches (GAB and Slamboree) are well worth anyone's time, but aye Slamboree is the better of the two. Still its Benoit bumping and selling against a stiff monster whilst laying in some of his stiffest strikes himself. Its a can't fail formula.



Yeah1993 said:


> Also IDK about Benoit and Fit not getting enough time on PPV - they got 15 minutes at Slamboree 98, which was the second longest match on that show.
> 
> I would be baffled if the mat work in the Benoit/Angle is any good. They do some nice counters and all, but is it really "mat wrestling" at all? I don't need "mat wrestling" for the match to be good, though. I should watch the match later today.


Thanks for reminding me of some of Benoit's overlooked WCW matches, may give that Sting '99 match a watch to see if its as good as you say.

Yeah I totally forgot the Slamboree match when I was ratting off that statement. Still Benoit/Finlay is a match style not dependent on length to succeed.

As for the matwork/hold trading, I guess I just rememebered there being some 'terrific' chain wrestling which dominated the bout, and then seeing a bunch of people talking the match up on here and pointing to the 'sublime wrestling' just made me think I was walking in and about to watch a far more wrestling based match than what you're normally treated to in a WWE ring. When I actually watched it though, whatever chain wrestling they did do (very little) really didn't seem a cut above anything else anyone else on the roster could do. I mean Noble/Mysterio in their Velocity match probably pull off more visually appealing yet still excellent chain wrestling exchanges than Benoit/Angle in the Rumble match.



Ether said:


> Fall Brawl 1997:
> 
> Eddie vs Jericho (c) for the Cruiserweight title: LOL at putting up Harlem Heats name during Eddie's entrance at the start. Very nice heat for Eddie here, he was brilliant throughout the entire match. Also liked how when the crowd chanted "boring" they picked up the pace, great fucking match. **** 1/2


One of Eddie's finest individual performances. Whether he's being a ruthless machine on offence, or accusing Jericho of hair pulling when he's bested in a collar and elbow tie up, he just nails every aspect of a heel performance in this match and renders Jericho as merely a passenger along for the ride. You could take any half decent WCW babyface midcarder from that roster and put them into this match and I really wouldn't have expected the quality to drop at all, Eddie was that good on this particular night.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Did Benoit get to wrestle Hulk Hogan or Goldberg in one-on-one matches? Fuck it, tag team matches are good enough too!


----------



## Dirk Pepper (Mar 27, 2006)

Just started reviewing for a website called Blogomatic 3000, here's my review of Punk's Best In The World set, hope you all enjoy it.

http://www.blogomatic3000.com/2012/10/08/blu-ray-review-cm-punk-best-in-the-world-wwe/


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> Did Benoit get to wrestle Hulk Hogan or Goldberg in one-on-one matches? Fuck it, tag team matches are good enough too!


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Does anyone know of a good file converter? I have a few matches saved as AVI files that a friends wants me to put on a dvd for him, I have convertXtoDVD but unless you pay for it you have text running across the middle of the screen. So if anyone knows one it'll be a great help.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

11rob2k said:


> Does anyone know of a good file converter? I have a few matches saved as AVI files that a friends wants me to put on a dvd for him, I have convertXtoDVD but unless you pay for it you have text running across the middle of the screen. So if anyone knows one it'll be a great help.


http://www.mediafire.com/?xcko97jcxofm4vq convertXtoDVD complete with an nfo file (open with notepad) that has a serial number. No text running across the screen any more! Just remember to go into the settings and turn off updates .


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

(Y)


KingCal said:


> http://www.mediafire.com/?xcko97jcxofm4vq convertXtoDVD complete with an nfo file (open with notepad) that has a serial number. No text running across the screen any more! Just remember to go into the settings and turn off updates .


Cheers man, worked fine great help (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just about to post a link lol, oh well an ALT link for anyone:

https://hotfile.com/dl/175386269/1f0498d/Vso_ConvertXToDVD_4.1.19.365c.rar.html


----------



## vingerard (Oct 5, 2012)

*CM Punk Best in the World DVD*

This isn't going to be a spoiler, don't worry.
I wrote this review over on my blog (Networking the Crowd) but reposting it here to get some thoughts.

IMO, CM Punk’s “Best in the World” marks a new era for independent wrestlers.

There’s a note in this DVD from CM Punk about why he’s still involved in wrestling and why he couldn’t walk away during the “Summer of Punk”. After having a chance to watch CM Punk’s “Best in the World” DVD, Independent Wrestlers everywhere need to step up their game and appreciate the extra attention you’re about to get from this DVD.

If you’re a fan of CM Punk, you should buy this. You won’t be disappointed.

If you’re a fan of independent wrestling, you should buy this. You will be happy with what you see on a WWE released DVD.

*My thoughts:* I’m excited to see what this does for Independent Wrestling, more specifically Ring of Honor. Will there be yet another IWA-MidSouth return? Probably. It might have already happened and I didn’t know. But I feel that this DVD has the ability to turn the casual wrestling fan into an independent wrestling fan and that’s going to make things a whole lot more interesting.

*When was the first time you heard about independent wrestling? What promotion?* I used to be one of those kids who would go with their Mom to the grocery store and sit down in the magazine aisle reading cover-to-cover all of the PWI magazines. That’s how I first read the name “Reckless Youth” and his grungy, backyard’ish look really caught my attention. There was a photo in a magazine of him doing a moonsault and for whatever reason, that was the most impressive s*** in the world to me…around 1998? If you went to the Top 10 Rankings section, you’d see his name popup basically everywhere. So all of that really got my attention and I continued my creeping on this Reckless Youth character online (sup AOL 3.0). Anyways, I found some tape traders online and then other independent wrestling organizations in the New Jersey area. That’s how I had my first taste of pro wrestling training (age 14) at Jersey Championship Wrestling… and Low Ki (Former WWF Jacked Superstar at the time) chopped the piss out of me. Thank you, Low Ki.

*When was the first time you heard about independent wrestling? What promotion?*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched McIntyre Vs Steamboat from NXT last week. Disappointing tbh . Only gets about 6 minutes so they really didn't have time to do... anything. Give them 15 minutes and I guarantee they could steal any show.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship PPV Matches Ever : 40-31*


40.









Mark Henry vs The Big Show (Vengeance 2011) : **** 1/2*


39.









John Cena vs Chris Jericho (Armageddon 2008) : **** 3/4*


38.









The Undertaker vs Edge (Judgment Day 2008) : **** 3/4*


37.









Shawn Michaels vs Triple H (3 Stages of Hell ; Armageddon 2002) : **** 3/4*


36.









Edge vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble 2011) : **** 3/4*


35.









Batista vs Edge vs The Undertaker (Armageddon 2007) : **** 3/4*


34.









Chris Benoit vs Triple H (Vengeance 2004) : **** 3/4*


33.









Randy Orton vs Christian (Money in the Bank 2011) : **** 3/4*


32.









Batista vs Triple H (Backlash 2005) : **** 3/4*


31.









Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler (No Way Out 2012) : **** 3/4*


Now I'm well aware that a TON of these choices may be extremely suspect, but I'm a huge fan of the Henry-Show series (Survivor Series match was super fun TBH) and I'm a true believer in the fact that it's some of Paul Wight's best ever work (apart from his NYR match with HHH and his work wit Lesnar). 3SOH might get shit on, and in hindsight maybe isn't the best selection because let's face it...It has a TON of flaws, I just fucking love it too much.

HHH-Batista is fucking AWESOME and would be **** if it wasn't for some of Batista's sketchy selling towards the end. Loved the idea of the Pedigree being this weapon of mass destruction. This list has been dominated by The Undertaker, HHH, and Edge ; What else is new ? 

Sheamus and Ziggler have awesome chemistry and I hope these two have a big time feud later this year, while Orton-Christian quietly put together one of the best series's of matches in the PG era.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Only way Henry vs Show can be the 50th best World Heavyweight title match ever, is if there have only ever been 49 world heavyweight title matches


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one who didn't care for the first two HHH/Batista matches? I thought the build up to their feud was one of the better storylines in recent years, but the matches weren't that great until HHH allowed Batista to kick the shit out of him inside the Cell. Batista just wasn't all that good yet.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

That Michaels/Triple H has my vote for one of the worse matches in the company's history.

Seriously, they do so much stupid shit in that match. So much...I can't stand it.

But I love the Ziggler/Edge match though and despite that I wouldn't put them high on my list of rewatching (or on a 'great' level) the Henry/Show and Batista/Edge/Undertaker matches are good fun.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I never thought Michaels and HHH had that much chemsitry, despite what you'd expect from those two. Their feuds were always the same rehashed "friend vs friend" spiel, and everything they did seemed much too forced and over the top. I don't remember the specific "stupid shit" from their Armageddon match, but it was definitely a disappointment. The HIAC, while a decent match, was built up to be some sort of epic, and it fell short as well. Their Raw 03 match and SS 02 matches were good, but the other stuff just fell short for the type of match you'd expect from two of the best in the company.

Someone please give me a rundown of the Armageddon match to refresh my memory.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The difference in quality between the WWE list and the WHC list is...surprising really lol. Then again, the WWE title has a greater catalogue to choose from I suppose. Trips/Batista HIAC is fucking awesome though. That barbed wire steel chair? Yeouch lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah there are some spots in the Batista/H HIAC that look really painful. I remember reading in Batista's book that the barbed wire chair was legit and it hurt like hell.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Problem with HHH and Shawn is that they tried too hard to make everything seem like OMGWTFBBQ epic

Their best match, the one on RAW, had no gimmick, no stip, just a title and some old fashioned wrestling


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah there are some spots in the Batista/H HIAC that look really painful. I remember reading in Batista's book that the barbed wire chair was legit and it hurt like hell.


Batista got it in the back. Ouch. Trips got it in the fucking face. OUCH! Lol. I remember the spot where Trips jumps off the top rope to nail, well, nothing because he never hits any move off the top rope lol, and Batista holds the sledgehammer up and gets him in the throat. HHH spits out a whole mouthful of blood like he does his water. Looked rather sick tbh, even if it was a blood capsule lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That "blood capsule" moment is the other spot that sticks out in my mind. Wasn't there a DDT to Bastita on that chair too?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK/HHH 3SOH doesn't belong anywhere near the top 75. Same thing with maybe Batista/HHH BL, though with the Batista/HHH it's more of just not seeing it as that good, but not necessarily a terrible match. Definitely better than their Mania match, but nothing good. I don't sense a lot of chemistry between Batista/HHH, though I suppose the Cell match says otherwise.

And there's the Show/Henry match we've been waiting for, though I think I'd actually have it a little bit higher. I still say Taker in 2008 is easily Show's best opponent... then again Lesnar did give Show some good matches as well. No one else comes close imo.

I'd have put Edge/Ziggler higher than all the matches above it (on this particular section of the list). Such an awesome singles match and probably Edge's best of such following his return in 2010. Matches I'd personally knock down a notch (which means I don't majorly disagree with them at their ratings, just I have them a bit lower): Taker/Edge JD, Cena/Jericho Armageddon, Taker/Edge/Batista, Sheamus/Ziggler and HHH/Benoit. 

Already going into the top 30? Damn, this list is flying by.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

The Cell match in particular worked so well because of the previous matches. It built on them

The deadliness of the pedigree in particular


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Show/Taker series in 2008 was so awesome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its been ages since I last watched the 3 stages of hell (christ what an apt name in context) match and have little desire to do so, but from memory I just remember there being no discernable sense of structure, layout, timing or any sense of logic. Pretty sure they were just setting up elaborate spots and huge spots without really building to them or making them matter in the overall context of the match, and it ends up just a horribly botched mess of extravegant ideas riddled with poor execution.

Their overall chemistry is pretty dire and up there as the worst in terms of top guys with a series of matches. Raw in San Antonio and the Taboo Tuesday 04 match (assuming its the one with HBK on one leg and HHH dissecting it all match) are the only two matches of their theirs I'd call very good or above. Ironically enough both are pretty much the lesser matches in terms of build and story compared to the HIAC, Streetfight, 2/3 falls and Last Man Standing match and its no surprise that in a more reserved setting they did away with all the WWE style elements of creating an 'epic' match and just focused on a smart, solid and less overblown match.

As for Batista/HHH, I recall thinking the Wrestlemania match wasn't as bad as it could have been (given Batista's ability at the time and HHH not exactly being my favourite guy to work main event 'spectacles') but its certainly well below the HIAC match which remains their best match by a country mile. Perfect blow off to a star making feud.


----------



## The GOAT One (Sep 17, 2011)

In HHH's last match he should definitely hit a move from the top rope, just something in wrestling we all need to see 

Maybe a shooting star press :hhh


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, SC, Taboo Tuesday was the one-legged match. I'd probably rank their matches as follows:

Raw 2003
SummerSlam 2002
Taboo Tuesday 2004
HIAC 2004
LMS 2004
Armageddon 2003

Think that's all of them (the PPV ones + Raw).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, SC, Taboo Tuesday was the one-legged match. I'd probably rank their matches as follows:
> 
> Raw 2003
> SummerSlam 2002
> ...


My list would probably be the same except swap Raw 2003 with SS02.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> That "blood capsule" moment is the other spot that sticks out in my mind. Wasn't there a DDT to Bastita on that chair too?


Oh shit that's right. I still think the straight shot that HHH took right to the head is much worse though. He had no way of protecting himself from that and it just looks nasty as fuck. They also used a steel chain to whip each other on the back iirc. Just a brutal match. 






They don't use it in this match but one spot that always makes me look away is when somebody whips out the toolbox lol. Screwdrivers getting stabbed into the head is too much for me.



Redead said:


> The Cell match in particular worked so well because of the previous matches. It built on them
> 
> The deadliness of the pedigree in particular


Agreed, that and HHH getting the shit beat out of him to make Big Dave Big Dave lol. Star making feud and match 100%.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd probably agree with that minus Summerslam being above Taboo Tuesday. Though tbh after Raw 03 and TT 04 and Summerslam being a distant distant distant 3rd, I really don't care how the others get ranked, as long as the 3 Stages of Hell ends up dead last. I think they have a Raw match in 2006 and maybe a match at one of the Tribute to the Troops shows, but tbh I'm in no rush to watch either to make sure.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think you're right about the Tribute to Troops show, but tbh those are more for fans than storytelling so I'm not sure it'd rank all that high.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> They don't use it in this match but one spot that always makes me look away is when somebody whips out the toolbox lol. Screwdrivers getting stabbed into the head is too much for me.


What matches other than HHH/Flair (and Foley/Flair??) was the screwdriver/toolbox used in? Drawing a blank.

sorry for dbl post


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> What matches other than HHH/Flair (and Foley/Flair??) was the screwdriver/toolbox used in? Drawing a blank.


They're probably all Flair matches. As if he doesn't bleed enough, he has to go get a screwdriver wound into his head lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I might be wrong but I recall a toolbox coming into play in the Nash/HHH HIAC (oh god I thought I'd blocked that match out of my mind).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still haven't seen that match. I have an odd feeling I'm not missing anything.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

To put it bluntly, its not a rose amongst the utter dogshit that is 95% of HHH's 2003.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

***1/4.

It worked. Plus FOLEY helped.

(I know I'm the only guy who thought it was watchable, let alone actually deemed "good")


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

What are you talking about? HHH/Steiner is a masterpiece of epic proportions...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

To be fair he got stuck with some garbage opponents.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The couple of Foley bumps are pretty feckin' tremendous in their own right.

Oh god HHH/Steiner, I pray this forum at the time honestly believed it could turn out to be something special. The sort of match the Bennny Hill theme is designed to be dubbed over.

His opponents mostly were nout special, but HHH himself was in pretty much one of the worst ruts of his career ring wise since his 2002 comeback and was hardly the man to salvage a PPV main event. I don't think he really recovers until 2005 with the Batista HIAC and Flair matches, though Flair is extraordinary and outperforms him in both imo, particularly the Steel Cage match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

15 suplexes and a garbage DQ finish. Brilliant stuff.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

He was too big for his body, he was slow, he was sluggish, he got injured and he was carrying out Vince's personal WCW retirement plan. As a huge HHH mark I can gladly say that I have simply stricken 2003 from the record books lol. Horrible year with very few bright points.

And I personally think he deserves a lot of credit for making it out of that match with Steiner alive lol. Then he went and had another match with him. Madness.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The fact they got a rematch proves Vince is a proud sadist. I mean there's probably a ton of evidence to point in that direction, but who the hell books a rematch after the initial debacle.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

As a fellow HHH fan, I agree w/Starbuck. I'm actually glad I had stopped watching wrestling at the time so I missed that entire mediocre run. :hb


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It was NWO to be fair to him. Mania was the next PPV. A rematch to free them up for their respective Mania programs was inevitable. 2003 was also the year HHH married Stephanie. Maybe Vince put him in all those matches as a sick form of punishment or something lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He managed to end the year vs Shawn on a much needed high note. Still amazed that one was as grand as it was considering the majority of his matches that year were so bad. 

vs Steiner I ~ DUD
vs Steiner II ~ *
vs Booker T ~ ***1/2 (Yes, I like it)
w/Flair & Jericho vs Michaels, Nash, & Booker ~ *1/4
vs Nash I ~ DUD
vs Flair ~ ***
vs Nash II ~ ***1/4
Elimination Chamber ~ 1/2*
vs Goldberg I ~ 1/2*
vs Goldberg II ~ *
vs Michaels ~ ****1/2

So yeah. A few good ones here and there, but until he and Shawn killed it on RAW it was nothing but a mess for the majority. idk if any of his other matches on tv were noteworthy. Probably not.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not surprised that matches involving Steiner, Nash, and Goldberg were bad, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've always thought a lot of the problem with HHH is he wanted to be Ric Flair. "Vince, I'm The Guy now, give me 20 minutes with ____ and I'll get a really good match out of him." He just wasn't good at it. When he started being less Ric Flair-y, he became better. Not a great wrestler (I don't think he was ever a great wrestler), but better than Holy Fuck Why Does This Guy Have The World Title He Is Dogshit. Didn't try to work like Flair in 2000, and was good. Didn't try to work like Flair in 2005, and was good. Didn't try to work like Flair in 2008, and was good. Tried to work like Flair in 2003, and sucked. This is coming from someone who's always liked HHH.



Segunda Caida said:


> I'd probably agree with that minus Summerslam being above Taboo Tuesday. Though tbh after Raw 03 and TT 04 and Summerslam being a distant distant distant 3rd, I really don't care how the others get ranked, as long as the 3 Stages of Hell ends up dead last. I think they have a Raw match in 2006 and maybe *a match at one of the Tribute to the Troops shows*, but tbh I'm in no rush to watch either to make sure.


That match is absolutely abysmal. Might be worse than the 3SOH.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, who else can we think of that always had trouble hitting a move off the top rope...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think he tried to be or wanted to be Ric Flair. Did he emulate and do Flair-ish things? Yes. But that doesn't mean he wanted to be him. In 2003 he sucked, no doubt about it. But he was injured and simply too big for his body to be able to move around comfortably. Rock and Austin were gone, the influx of WCW talent did nothing to quell the dip and he just flat out had a bad year. In fact, the only good thing he did that year, apart from the awesome match with Shawn right at the end, is this:






:lmao :lmao :lmao 

Gets me every time lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H was riding that Evolution train in 2003. He wanted to be the new age Ric Flair. Proof was in the product. He rolled with his crew. He incorporated his character to be like Flair. He tried to work like Flair. He wanted to be the heel champ who manages to hold onto his championship after every big match like Flair. He tried to do it all and it ended up being his worst run as a main eventer. He shouldn't have made himself into such a carbon copy at the time. Like Yeah1993 said, when he didn't try, he was good. That's how it always is. Don't go and be someone that can't be recycled like Flair. Go be Triple H. That's what made him sucessful in the first place. 

Evolution was entertaining, more in 2004, but THE GAME HHH > Evolution HHH. Easy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Still don't think he was trying to be Flair tbh. There are obviously similarities in the gimmick and the whole Evolution thing but I honestly think it's more down to his body and injuries. Take smaller/injury free HHH from 2000 and put him in 2003 and I'm willing to bet it doesn't suck so badly. Take heavy, clumpy and injury ridden HHH from 2003 and put him in 2000 and there's not a chance that it looks half as good. If he had been on form and actually able to pull off something decent in the matches he had, it wouldn't have been so bad. But he wasn't and we ended up with awful main events instead of decent/passable ones. No matter the gimmick he had in 2003, he was still going to suck because he was simply too big for his body. Then he got injured and it all went to shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll credit all of the above contributing to his mediocre year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

2000 HHH > most wrestlers' careers, though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> I'll credit all of the above contributing to his mediocre year.


Mediocre is being nice tbh.



The Lady Killer said:


> 2000 HHH > most wrestlers' careers, though.


:agree:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> 2000 HHH > most wrestlers' careers, though.


Undertaker >.



Starbuck said:


> Mediocre is being nice tbh.


Fair enough. ABYSSMAL NONSENSE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Undertaker >.


GTFO

His greatness was carrying into 2001 as well. Who knows how long the consistency would've lasted. Damn quad.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> Undertaker >.


If you're saying Undertaker is a better worker than Triple H then I agree with you, but Triple H's 00-01 run was remarkable.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Cyber Sunday 2008

Rey vs Kane: *** 1/4

Matt Hardy (c) vs Bourne for the ECW title: ****, very surprised by this match

Cryme Tyme vs Miz & Morrison: ** 1/4

Honky Tonk vs Santino: DUD

Show vs Taker LMS: *** 1/4

HHH (c) vs Jeff Hardy for the WWE title: LOL at Hardy scaring Cole when he hits the table. *** 3/4

Batista vs Jericho (c) for the WHC: ***

Overall: ***, besides HHH/Hardy and Matt/Bourne I wouldn't watch another match on the card again


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> GTFO
> 
> His greatness was carrying into 2001 as well. Who knows how long the consistency would've lasted. Damn quad.


nice IC title run :cool2



Clique said:


> If you're saying Undertaker is a better worker than Triple H then I agree with you, but Triple H's 00-01 run was remarkable.


Yes, Taker is.

Yeah, Game's run owned. I'll always prefer all areas of Undertaker's career over H's tho. Even 93-95......maybe. Not.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

vs Austin 3SoH, vs Taker Mania and Raw tag when he tore his quad = FUCK YOU


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> GTFO
> 
> His greatness was carrying into 2001 as well. Who knows how long the consistency would've lasted. Damn quad.


I truly wonder how that would have panned out. Stupid fucking quad. They ended up rushing the whole Invasion angle too because of his injury iirc. 

Trips 2000 smokes any single year Taker has ever had by a mile. When it comes to overall careers though, I'm not going to argue with anybody who picks Taker but my own personal choice is an obvious one lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> vs Austin 3SoH, vs Taker Mania and Raw tag when he tore his quad = FUCK YOU






Starbuck said:


> I truly wonder how that would have panned out. Stupid fucking quad. They ended up rushing the whole Invasion angle too because of his injury iirc.
> 
> Trips 2000 smokes any single year Taker has ever had by a mile. When it comes to overall careers though, I'm not going to argue with anybody who picks Taker but my own personal choice is an obvious one lol.


I'll take Undertaker in 1999 from a character perspective and Undertaker in 2003 over Triple H in 2000. Taker to me is how HHH is to you, man. We're not gonna budge.

*note though, I really do LOVE Game's run in 2000.*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It appears Starbuck is just as stubborn as I am about THE GAME. Good man.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Us Triple H marks have to stick together. There aren't that many of us lol. 

:hhh


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Last time I spoke about the Austin/HHH 3SOH match some guy PM'd me in a fit asking me to politely shut the fuck up.

Bless.

Powertrip/Canadian Violence tag does indeed own though.

Taker's 2007 to me is definitely close to HHH's 2000, HHH's highs that year are remarkable (Foley Rumble, Rock Backlash and Judgement Day, Taka SD match and Jericho LMS Fully Loaded) but Taker's series with Batista, as well as the Rumble match and exchange with HBK, the Cena/HBK vs Taker/Batista NWO Super Tag and a couple of really strong TV matches against Finlay have me thinking there's not much separating their years. HHH's highs are definitely superior overall, but there's a couple of low points (King of the Ring 6 man, Angle Unforgiven, Benoit No Mercy, Austin SS match and Armageddon HIAC).

I still think I prefer his 2005 year from an overall character perspective, such an unrelenting asshole. His 2008 is also really good as the veteran champ having a post peak year of his life, and the slow build Hardy title pursuit made for a couple of really strong matches. No Mercy 2008 is ridiculously good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Love the HHH/Hardy series. No Mercy is so good.

Taker/Batista is probably one of my favorite feuds in recent memory. Good call. I really need to watch that series of matches again. The only one I'm really familiar with is the Mania match.

Agreed that 2005 HHH is probably my favorite version of his character. Loved when he returned as a face, only to turn on Flair his first match back and completely decimate him. Their feud was great, and I really enjoyed the slow morph of his character into The King of Kings/tweener role in early 06.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Every year apart from 2003 is good with me . Lol. I really need to watch that No Mercy match vs. Jeff again. I haven't seen it in ages. I'm on 2004 PPV's atm. I'll watch it when I eventually get to 2008.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Speaking of 2004, I believe it was *Yeah1993* who really pimped Hunter's performance against Eugene at Summerslam. Definitely a career highlight in terms of being the most outlandish asshole in a ring. Not a particularly 'great' match but essential viewing for HHH as the ultimate foil for a sympathetic babyface.

Cena NOC and Hardy NM are probably HHH's two strongest PPV outings in 08, not really much else of note.

I recall thinking the Wrestlemania match was one of the strongest Taker/Batista outings, though I think Cal might prefer Backlash or one of their other matches (HIAC?).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I just watched Stone Cold's The Bottom Line and I got to say the documentary is the best I've seen from WWE. I haven't watched Rise & Fall of ECW yet, though. So it may change. And SummerSlam 04 review coming very soon, most likely tomorrow.



The Lady Killer said:


> I never thought Michaels and HHH had that much chemsitry, despite what you'd expect from those two. Their feuds were always the same rehashed "friend vs friend" spiel, and everything they did seemed much too forced and over the top. I don't remember the specific "stupid shit" from their Armageddon match, but it was definitely a disappointment. The HIAC, while a decent match, was built up to be some sort of epic, and it fell short as well. Their Raw 03 match and SS 02 matches were good, but the other stuff just fell short for the type of match you'd expect from two of the best in the company.
> 
> Someone please give me a rundown of the Armageddon match to refresh my memory.


Oh God, YES! I couldn't agree with what you said about the HHH/HBK feud any more. It was so forced and they were desperate at making it look so OMGITZTHEMOSTINTENSEFEUDEVER!!!111 that it ended up sucking for the most part. I personally don't hate the 3SOH match because I'm a sucker for SPOTZ~! but the match really is a mess. One example of it is when HBK and HHH are fighting on top of the steel cage in the second fall and Flair randomly comes out and sets up the tables outside the ring for the final bump in the ladder fall.

For the rest of their matches, I loved SS02, Raw 03 was good, RR04 is alright, their triple threat series with Benoit are classics (more for Benoit, though) and the HIAC match is fucking terrible and almost as boring as the HIAC with Nash. I'm yet to see TT04, though.

HHH's 03 matches:
Steiner I - * (**** for comedy)
Steiner II - * (Just boring, although the "Steiner sucks" chants cracked me up)
Booker T - *** (Average and just underwhelming with the dead crowd)
6 man tag - *1/2 (Zzzzzzzzzzz)
Nash I - 1/2* (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Nash II - 1/4* (Super zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Elimination Chamber - **1/2 (Shitty booking and way too short)
Goldberg I - **1/2 (Not very bad for Goldberg standards)
Goldberg II - *1/2 (Horribly uninteresting)
Goldberg/Kane - ***1/4 (Finally something watchable)
HBK - ****


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips vs. Eugene at Summerslam 04 is :lmao. I adore that match lol. He's such a fucking dickhead with the Lilian grabbing and the injury faking etc. It's great fun to watch. The crowd crapping all over Eugene getting picked on makes it even better lol. It's always weird seeing HHH take a pedigree though. Looks awkward as hell.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I completely forgot about the Eugene match :lmao

How in the world was that at a Summerslam?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH, even in 2000 doesn't touch Undertaker's 2006-2009 (up to WM25). Matches with Angle and HBK>HHH's matches with Foley and Rock. Matches with Batista>Most of HHH's matches with Austin. HHH's 2000/2001 run was amazing, but Taker's was just better and had three full years at that quality imo. Gave Batista, Edge, Kennedy, and Big Show the best singles matches of their career (well... maybe Kennedy goes to HBK).

That being said, like Starbuck I won't get into a disagreement with anyone who puts HHH's 2000 over Taker's 2006-2008 (it's kinda pointless in the grand scheme of things), but it is what it is.

That being said, Taker's lowest time in match quality I'd put below HHH's.

Speaking of HHH 2000 and HHH 2003, I love how they are polar opposites of each other. The former, HHH himself was an excellent worker and always had excellent opponents. The latter, he was terrible and had terrible opponents. Kinda amazing how 2-3 years can change things that drastically, though HHH did find himself again in 2004.

Edit: Love the HHH/Eugene match. As far as pure heel performance goes for HHH, I say that's his best.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bad injuries + ridiculous bulk + awful opponents = horrible year.

Glad he was able to turn things around later on, though.

edit - another H/Eugene shout out. Now I definitely need to watch this. Gives me a reason to watch Orton/Benoit again too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips has fought Eugene and Khali at Summerslam. MR SUMMERSLAM DURR. 

I only watched the Eugene match a week or so ago but I feel like I should watch it again for teh lulz. I love the highlight reel with Jericho before it, with Regal, Eugene and Evolution. Great segment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Eugene match owns. :lmao

I really don't care for most HHH/HBK stuff.

HHH/Hardy - NM '08 - ****1/2, imo.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Speaking of Orton/Benoit, that's another really overlooked series. Summerslam, Raw the next night, December 2005 SD and then January 2006 SD with Orton replacing Booker in the best of 7, and then the NHB blow off to their on/off again series. Orton's perhaps Benoit's best opponent on a consistent basis in Benoit's WWE tenure. They also have some brilliant exchanges in the Evolution vs The World tags in Raw 2004, I recall the 6 man elimination tag after Bad Blood 2004 being particularly special and really doing a subtlely super job at building up Orton vs Benoit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I have a feeling if (HUGE if) HBK did come out of retirement for a final match to end HHH's career @ Mania they'd be able to put on a really amazing match. No gimmicks (aside from H's career on the line) - just a great story and emotion would do the trick.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just went back a few pages to read up a bit and saw the video with HHH slaughtering Austin. Love that segment, probably the one bright segment from HHH in 2003. 

"Is that a badge!?" :lmao


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Bad Blood 2004 was pretty sweet

Not the Hell in a Cell, Im talking the Benoit vs Kane match

Might sound kind of dumb but as a kid i found that thing epic. Kane may have been diminished but he was still coming off the unmasking, even though Taker squashed him. Benoit beat Kane CLEAN. I spent the entire match wondering how the fuck he could get the win, since Kane would never tap to the sharpshooter or crossface and Benoit the face would never resort to a chairshot or cheating

Benoit winning clean was immense


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm still partially pissed that HHH/HBK didn't happen at Mania 26. Just a little bit although I can hardly complain given the match we got over it lol. I was ringside for that Mania though and would have loved to have seen HBK/HHH live just once.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

McMahon Helmsley Hunter is my favorite year for any worker ever. Dude literally had the hottest heel run ever and essentially put the E on his back (he along with Rocky).. And i'm just talking about his character, work-rate wise, no one was even close.

... And My Time was awesome


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I always did think HHH would be the one to end HBK's career, but after the epic Taker/HBK match at WM25, I suppose they figured if there's anyone who could give HBK the best match to end his career on, it's Undertaker. HBK/HHH was always hit or miss.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

:lmao at King during the Eugene/:hhh match, fucking gold
"Eugene wasn't his mothers favorite, and he was an only child!"
"I tried to have a conversation with Eugene one time, I said hello and he was stuck for an answer!"

Also lol at JR trying his best to make it sound serious
"This match is...seriously personal!"

Very nice Eugene sucks chant too, got to love Canada. Eugene got alot more offense than I remember. LOL at that stunner getting the loudest pop of the match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If it isn't HBK, I wonder who will end Hunter's career. Thought it'd be Taker, but I doubt they'll have another match after Mania 28.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Maybe it was Lesnar already =/

I think if he comes back, it'll be for one more match and it'll be against either Punk, or (god forbid) a rematch with Lesnar.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think vs Lesnar was the end. I'd think he'd retire @ Mania like most other legends of his caliber (Flair - well, WWE Flair - HBK, etc). At least that's what I'm hoping will happen.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips will just retire without warning. He won't let anybody retire him because of DAT EGO. Lol. I don't think he'll ever be able to have a proper retirement though because of his position. I'm sure that when he assumes the Vince role, there's bound to be a time where he'll have to step in the ring like Vince did himself as the boss. That sort of rules out an official retirement. Or maybe he will hang them up and never wrestle again. Who knows. If I had to guess I'd say it would be one of Cena/Orton/Punk/Seamus who would get the rub though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think vs Lesnar was the end. I'd think he'd retire @ Mania like most other legends of his caliber (Flair - well, WWE Flair - HBK, etc). At least that's what I'm hoping will happen.


I don't know. The whole cutting his hair thing, while I realize it's just hair, just seems to me to signify the end of his in-ring career. It would make sense for him to end it at Mania, which is where I think his next match with Lesnar or Punk would happen, but if it doesn't, I won't be too surprised.

Either way, after he's done with his in-ring career, I'm sure somewhere down the road he'll have a major storyline as GM/Owner.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's still crazy to me that he's going to run the whole thing one day. Life really did imitate art with that one lol. The McMahon Helmsley Era = The Reality Era.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I don't see HBK ever coming out of retirement, even for HHH's last match only because of what Flair did and how that probably made him feel. He wouldn't want to do the same shit to Taker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship PPV Matches Ever : 30-21*


30.









Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Taboo Tuesday 2004) : **** 3/4*


29.









Chris Jericho vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXVI) : **** 3/4*


28.









Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing ; Royal Rumble 2004) :**** 3/4*


27.









Christian vs Alberto Del Rio (Ladder ; Extreme Rules 2011) : **** 3/4*


26.









Triple H vs Rob Van Dam (Unforgiven 2002) : ******


25.









Kane vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio vs Edge (TLC ; TLC 2011) : ******

24.









The Undertaker vs Batista (Hell in a Cell ; Survivor Series 2007) : ******


23.









Edge vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kane vs Drew Mcintyre vs Wade Barrett vs Rey Mysterio (Elimination Chamber ; Elimination Chamber 2011) : ******


22.










Triple H vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX) : ******


21.









Batista vs Eddie Guerrero (No Mercy 2005) : ******




Batista/Eddie is one of my favourite matches of all time. The whole "Eddie will turn/will Eddie turn" story during the match is one of my favourites ever. Alot of people don't like the finish, but I think it's an awesome change of pace to what's normally expected in a big time main event match. 

Think the Trips/RVD and Trips/Booker matches are extremely underrated (especially the Booker one, don't know how it really goes unnoticed since it takes place at WRESTLEFUCKINGMANIA).


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

On the Hunter talk going on, I like 2003 Triple H more than 2006 and onwards Triple H. He sure was having bad matches, although I find the Nash HIAC, Flair match on Raw, T match at 'Mania, and Michaels at the end all stellar. The entire Evolution storyline and Hunter's feuds against old and useless WCW fellas made me enjoy him in 2003. No jokes.

As a wrestler, Triple H had great years later on too, but 1999 - 2001 and 2003 Triple H are the most I've enjoyed of Triple H.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hunter in 2003 :

vs Steiner I : *1/2 * (AWESOME)*
vs Steiner II : ** 1/2 (AWESOME)*
vs Booker T WM : ******
w/Flair & Jericho vs Nash/Michaels & Booker T BL : *****
vs Nash I JD : ** 1/4*
vs Flair RAW : **** 1/2 (AWESOME)*
vs Nash II HIAC BB : **** 1/2 (Horribly Underrated)*
Elimination Chamber II : **** (Shouldn't even count as a Trips match)*
vs Goldberg I UNF : *** 1/4*
vs Goldberg II SS : *** 1/4*
vs Goldberg vs Kane ARM : *** 1/2*
vs HBK RAW : ***** 1/4*

The fact that he wrestled 3 HORRIBLE world title matches on PPV makes this year a failure, but as you can see , he showed minor flashes of greatness throughout the year, and the HBK bout revitalized him for what was one of the most AWESOME runs ever.... HHH from RR 04 to BL 06


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hunter in 2003 :

vs Steiner I : DUD
vs Steiner II : DUD
vs Booker T WM : ****
w/Flair & Jericho vs Nash/Michaels & Booker T BL : **1/2
vs Nash I JD : *
vs Flair RAW : ***
vs Nash II HIAC BB : ***
Elimination Chamber II : ***
vs Goldberg I UNF : **
vs Goldberg II SS : **
vs Goldberg vs Kane ARM : ** 1/2
vs HBK RAW : ***1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Also, I guess I'm not the only one who's noticed that HHH goes to the top rope (the easy shortcut) and NEVER hits a successful move. It's like Flair when he's Irish whipped and gets back dropped. ALWAYS the same result!

I still wanna know if HHH ever had an aerial move in his arsenal or even performed one successfully. I think Flair hit one of them without being countered at WM24 against HBK.



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> *The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship PPV Matches Ever : 30-21*


You need to load this list with BENOIT in the last 20! I guess the reason he's showed up only once is because all his defenses/title matches are just AWESOME~! and above what's been listed so far.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, when Flair was a face toward the end of his WWE career he hit a top rove move more than once iirc. I remember this announcers saying, "Well, that never happens!"

I don't recall HHH ever hitting a move from the top rope, but maybe he did when he was Hunter Hearst Helmsley.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Flair hit a top rope move once vs carlito

got a huge pop. Flair couldnt believe it and neither could announcers


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is that when he won the IC title off him?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i think so


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> You need to load this list with BENOIT in the last 20! I guess the reason he's showed up only once is because all his defenses/title matches are just AWESOME~! and above what's been listed so far.


I'd go along with that.

The 05 chamber, the 2 triple threats & the matches vs Kane & Orton are all great title matches that are deserving of a top-20 berth.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of Carlito, he had an overlooked match with Shawn Michaels on Raw the night after Survivor Series 2005. It's probably Carlito's best singles match in WWE. Shawn did a great job selling a knee injury too.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I seriously marked out for Flair hitting the cross body on HBK in their Mania match. First time I'd ever seen him actually hit it.


----------



## GameofRings (Sep 19, 2012)

Bubz said:


> I seriously marked out for Flair hitting the cross body on HBK in their Mania match. First time I'd ever seen him actually hit it.


THIS... I remember plenty of times where he'd miss it back in the day, but I loved seeing him go all luchadore on HBK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, when Flair was a face toward the end of his WWE career he hit a top rove move more than once iirc. I remember this announcers saying, "Well, that never happens!"
> *
> I don't recall HHH ever hitting a move from the top rope, but maybe he did when he was Hunter Hearst Helmsley.*


That's what I thought too.



Kane-UK said:


> I'd go along with that.
> 
> The 05 chamber, the 2 triple threats & the matches vs Kane & Orton are all great title matches that are deserving of a top-20 berth.


Don't forget the Ironman match with HHH. But I guess it's only PPV matches so it'll be ignored.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow, and here I thought my brother and I were the only ones who actually liked the Triple H vs Booker T match at WrestleMania 19. Nice to see it get some love.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I know they get a lot of shit, but Shawn and Triple H made Benoit look like God from Wrestlemania to Summerslam.

He just beat them in every single match, every single way, every single time

They made him look like a real world heavyweight champion


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/Redead. As much crap as Shawn gets, he never hogged the title (after 96), nor was he involved in neverending title matches. His title feuds actually meant something (Jericho) because they weren't so common.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was wanting Shawn to be champ again in the later years. His 02 run was only for that brief stint and I was honestly hoping he would have another go with the gold. 

Then again, it was kind of hard when the company was letting Orton finally flourish and Jericho have his best run of his career (2008-2010). Props to Shawn for helping those guys go to an even higher level.


----------



## GameofRings (Sep 19, 2012)

This is the DVD discussion, so I figured I should post this here... I just watched the Punk documentary, and it was amazing. I couldn't believe how brutally honest he was about certain topics that I never expected to even hear brought up. Well worth the watch!


----------



## djmathers1207 (Sep 9, 2011)

I hear the documentary is great and possibly the best one they've put out since Rise & Fall Of ECW


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got the Punk Bluray from Platt this morning, finished watching all the special features. Damn. Took the doc to the next level. Might put it above the Austin and Jake Roberts ones now (making it my #1). Everyone telling the story of the first time they met Punk was awesome :lmao. The only guy with a good experience was Lars . Regal was awesome. Something about him looking like a scruffy swine and thinking the best place to hide something from him would be in some soap :lmao.

Also watched the Punk/Regal No DQ IC title match. Remember being disappointed with their series back when it happened, but I really enjoyed the match this time around. Including the stuff from the commercial break helped no doubt, always better to see a match in full.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Commercial breaks during matches are one of those things that I would really love WWE to stop doing. I understand why it happens, but you can get taken out of some really good matches just for 5 Just For Men ads.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

During Raw when its live, it happens and I accept it even though I don't like it... but Smackdown having breaks in the middle of matches really pisses me off lol. Its taped. Days before it airs. They know how long they have between commercial breaks, they know how long matches are given. They supposedly have people who understand TV. Yet they can't seem to structure a taped show so that matches (unless they go for a long time, then its unavoidable) don't get interrupted. ARGH!

Nice that WWE are starting to occasionally include the stuff in the breaks on sets nowadays at least. Angle/Lesnar Iron Man was probably THE match that needed to be in full, and they did, so yey for them.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*SummerSlam 2004:*

The Dudleyz vs Rey Mysterio/Billy Kidman/Paul London - **1/2
- Nothing special. Standard tag team action that belongs to your average Smackdown episodes at best. But wow, the losers of this match are some damn good performers in the ring!

Kane vs Matt Hardy - **1/2
- Ends rather fast and Kane finally gets to marry Lita, lol. The in-ring action was nothing special so it was the best decision to only give them a few minutes.

Booker T vs John Cena - **1/2
- Another below average match. The start to the Best of 5 series between these two but I can't say I liked this one very much. It gets under 10 minutes but they still spend quite a bit of time using restholds and the finish just comes out of nowhere. I hope the rest of the series will be better, though. And I also loved the random and first-time ever segment with Cena and Orton backstage before the match.

Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Batista - ***
- This is the start of "bizarro world" that the commentators constantly refer to afterwards. Edge returns to his hometown for the first time in two years and gets booed in favor of Jericho, who gets the cheers. That aside, it's a decent triple threat with all three getting their fair share of ring-time and it ends at under 10 minutes like every match preceding it. Decent but that's it. And I assume Edge loved the boos because the seeds were already being planted for his heel turn which he probably enjoyed playing a lot more. So this was it and afterwards, they decided to finally pull the trigger on the improved heel Edge.

Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero - ***
- Another okay match. Given above 10 minutes but it starts off a bit too slow. They do ankle-work for a bit too long during the start then when it starts getting exciting about 8 minutes into the match, it only takes a few minutes until Angle makes Eddie tap out after removing his boot as a call-back to their WM20 match when Eddie outsmarted Angle. Inferior to their WM match and I hope that their 2 out of 3 falls match will be better.

HHH vs Eugene - ***1/2
- This one was pretty entertaining. HHH plays the asshole heel perfectly but gets cheered while Eugene is greeted with "Eugene sucks" chants, which he manages to turn into cheers by doing Rock Bottoms, Stunners and Atomic Legdrops! One of the best spots was when Hunter faked a leg injury and then as soon as Eugene turned around, attacked him. To Eugene's credit, he can wrestle just fine despite the stupid gimmick he plays. I hope now Raw is no longer Eugene-dominated after this now because I was bored of him one month into it.

JBL vs Undertaker - ***1/4
- A lot better than I remembered it being. Some decent wrestling by the two and I forgot how strongly JBL is booked here as he kicks out of a Last Ride and Chokeslam too. Unfortunately for the two, the crowd distracts a lot as they are at their most random here. Doing the wave, chanting "Spanish table" and looking away towards the limo when some guy jumped the barricade and almost ruined the final spot that was planned with the chokeslam. Undertaker gets DQ after using the belt on JBL but he completely destroys him post-match!

Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton - ****1/2
- Match of the night, historic and a classic to remember. Benoit as usual brings it in the ring and Orton keeps up just fine as he adapts towards a more technical style. Despite restholds being used a few times throughout the match, I was still entertained one way or another. Also a few notable spots such as Orton doing a Sharpshooter (well executed might I add) and the terrifying suicide dive by Benoit when his head hits the barricade pretty hard. Truly a machine was the Wolverine, he continued to carry on matches even after taking some of the worst bumps ever. I didn't expect the end to come so soon when Orton hit the RKO after a Crossface counter. Orton wins and the crowd cheers despite Benoit's "homecoming" to Canada. There's also a bit of a nice touch towards the end when they have Benoit shaking Orton's hand. This was supposed to be the moment that made Orton "the man" as the youngest World Heavyweight Champion but for one reason or another, his face run flopped and he was buried pretty fast by HHH. By the time he was back up to the main event, Batista and Cena had already passed him by but to Orton's credit, he managed to get to the top and peaked in 2008-2009 time.

*Overall:* ***1/2 out of ***** (Plenty of average stuff in the start but things pick up towards the end. Nothing is truly bad, though, which makes SS 04 a pretty worthwhile PPV to check out and a great one. I've heard people say they can't stand this PPV because of the weird crowd but they never took away my enjoyment from the show and I personally actually liked most of their randomness save for the disrespect shown towards JBL and Undertaker.)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SS04:
Eugene/HHH- ***3/4- As I mentioned, probably HHH's best heel performance ever. Excellent stuff.

Taker/JBL- ***1/2- Had one fun match, and I remember as a Taker mark and someone who despised JBL (despised as in I would get PPV's just to see him lose the title, only to be disappointed for 9 months), I was pissed beyond all belief that Taker got himself DQ'd. The chokeslam through the limo after the match was cool, but I always lol at the guy that jumped the barricade.

Orton/Benoit- ****- Excellent main event to an overall good show. Orton won, but then got buried by HHH/Evolution, his face run flopped, and he was back in the mid-card with Christian before you knew it. Thank god for Orton for the feud with Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 04:

Eddie/Angle - ** - thought it was nothing more than just Ankle Lock shit. Worse than their WM bout that I'm not fond of. 2/3 falls is their best match by far imo.

Taker/JBL - ***1/2 - Loved it, big fan of their matches on PPV and the 05 SD match too.

Orton/Benoit - **** - Great series between these two starting here and going into 06. Still think their SD 06 match is their best (NOT the NHB match, the other one. And not that one. I think they had 3 lol within a month  ).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> SS 04:
> 
> Eddie/Angle - ** - thought it was nothing more than just Ankle Lock shit. Worse than their WM bout that I'm not fond of. 2/3 falls is their best match by far imo.
> 
> ...


Lol @ "just Ankle Lock shit". That's what brought it down for me. They spend over half the match trying to outdo each other with that move. Then when things start to pick up, the match ends.

Is the 05 SD match between JBL & Taker the one where Orton interferes after being drafted?

And I assume you are talking about the 13/1/06 match between Benoit and Orton, the one when Orton finally pins Benoit after the DQ finishes. My favorite is the SS one then the NHB. About to watch their SS rematch now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, the one with Orton showing up is the JBL/Undertaker match. Man, I LOVE how JBL takes a Big Boot from Undertaker btw. Looks awesome every single time lol.

Probably is that Orton/Benoit match. I'm useless at remembering dates, even though I do have a text document with all my 06 reviews and ratings .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Cal* you seen Orton vs Benoit from 12/30/05 Smackdown(if its not the exact date its sometime at the very end of 05)? Was reading through nominated stuff in the WWF/E poll and saw Buzz give it a rave review and it seemed familiar but something I hadn't watched in ages.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, never got to see it. Only got like, 2 shows from 05 and they are both Raws, and I tried looking online for it way back when, and the quality was far too shitty for me to watch it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ah fair enough, seems like a lost gem in their series.

I said it a few pages back about Orton possibly being Benoit's best opponent in WWE at least in terms of consistency, and it got me to think about if anyone in the WWE has actually ever had better chemistry on a consistent basis? I mean they've had a good 5/6 singles matches and I can't recall any of them ever being below very good. I'm probably talking around 5 matches or more here, rather than just a couple of really good matches from 2 wrestlers.

Eddie/Mysterio seems like a given, but they do have the Wrestlemania 20 match as a minor blemish on their otherwise brilliant chemistry (Summerslam 05 isn't too great either, but we're picking at straws here).

Angle/Austin is probably also up there. Summerslam 2001 is a classic, Unforgiven match is a definite notch and a bit below that one but still good in its own right. Their on and off TV matches from 2001-2002 are also of significant quality.

Benoit/Regal and Benoit/Finlay would also be up there, though they have a few matches less than the other pairings.

Punk/Mysterio for more recent times seems like a good shout. Armageddon 2008, the fabulous 2/12/10 SD encounter, Wrestlemania 26 being a super sub 10 minute match, ER and OTL 2010 being well above good, Capitol Punishment 2011 being the match of the show etc.

I suppose Punk/Cena may just edge out Orton/Benoit, on account of MITB, Summerslam and NOC as well as their TV matches from 2011-2012. They definitely were given more opportunities to have more than 1 'truly great, near classic' encounter than Orton/Benoit.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Segunda, I would probably throw Taker/Batista, Taker/Orton, and Taker/Edge into that mix. Taker had some quality series in that period where he was just at the top of his game like never before in the ring. Taker/Angle too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm really excited about watching 2005. Got all the Raw episodes (I hope so anyways), Smackdown is almost finished as are PPVs. Should be a great year.

And SC, you forgot Orton/Christian. They had an awesome series of matches last year and I heard their mini-feud on Raw 05 was also good.

*Chris Benoit's Title Reign:*

vs HHH vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 20) ~ *****
vs HHH vs Shawn Michaels (Backlash) ~ ****1/2
vs Shawn Michaels (Raw 3/5/2004) ~ ****1/4
vs Kane (Bad Blood) ~ ****
vs Kane (Raw 28/6/2004) ~ ***1/2
vs HHH (Vengeance) ~ ***3/4
vs Eugene (Raw 26/7/2004) ~ ***
vs HHH (Ironman, Raw 2/8/2004) ~ ****1/4
vs Randy Orton (SummerSlam) ~ ****1/2

*Overall:* An excellent title reign without a single dull match. Unfortunately, Benoit was never given a fair chance on a whole, though. He cut 1 or 2 promos throughout this entire reign and the only thing he got to do was wrestle which I understand was his strong point. But he was also never given much in way of opponents to work with either. Outside of the short feud with Kane, it was all HHH, HHH, HHH and more HHH. Then he got to play second-fiddle to Eugene's bullshit and the title became an afterthought. But he still managed to put on great matches every chance he got. Why couldn't have _anyone_ else gotten a shot at the title other than HHH and whoever he was feuding with? For instance, Chris Jericho cut a promo saying he was going to get a title shot but it never happened and instead when he won that little silly chairs game the week before Vengeance that took place in Winnipeg, he got a title shot at the Intercontinental title instead. How fucking pointless was that?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Taker/Angle have 3 top quality matches, but then some of their 2000 matches aren't very good and the 2002 SD match isn't great either. Its not so much about great chemistry, but rather an abundance of consistent 'very good or above' matches.

Taker/Orton is a very good shout though. I'm not as high on the series collectively and would probably rank it below a few of the pairings I posted, but its definitely a good series and I can't recall them having close to a bad match.

Taker/Edge I can see the argument for if you're an Edge fan, but I loathe the guy as a worker and would really struggle to call him 'good'. As a result I really can't get into most of their series, especially the wretched TLC match and I'm not even that great a fan of the HIAC. Like a lot of Edge matches its just too relient on props and spots for my liking, though I appreciate if any of his matches needed weapons and spots a HIAC vs Taker at Summerslam is about as appropriate as it gets.

Taker/Batista is a very good shout, although the Chairs match in 09 was pretty bad, though that's hardly their fault. Still I'm trying to think of pairings which consistently produced a high quality match in every match they contested, I appreciate its quite strict and harsh criteria and the chairs match doesn't take away from the 07 series but like Eddie/Rey WM 20 its still a minor blemish compared to Punk/Cena, Orton/Benoit & Punk/Mysterio.

Mysterio/Jericho could be another contender. Admittedly like Taker/Edge my lack of support of Jericho as a good worker means I'm lower on the series than most (I prefer Punk/Mysterio overall), but I wouldn't say any of their matches dipped below good throughout the feud so its therefore a worthy contender.



Choke2Death said:


> And SC, you forgot Orton/Christian. They had an awesome series of matches last year and I heard their mini-feud on Raw 05 was also good.


Meh, like I said this isn't about pairings that produced good/great matches, its about those pairings which somehow never produced anything below good whenever they were paired up. Aside from the initial title change match on Smackdown and Over The Limit (far and away the best match in the series) I don't rate the rest of the series very much: MITB was a story driven match so I appreciate why it was never going to match OTL but its still not much of a match to me. A case where the story and angle detracted to much from the match progressing. Summerslam I don't really like too much either, feels like every other WWE NHB/No DQ match where they have the usual array of weapons and elaborate spots. I've become too disensitised to that style and as a result there's very few WWE NBH/LMS or Street Fights I enjoy these days, especially post 2009 where they've become increasingly frequent and with very little difference in terms of layout, weapons and spots they all seem to blend together and make it impossible for me to really get into the match. Can't recall the last series of matches in a feud where I didn't find the LMS or Street Fight esque match to be one of the weakest.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Maybe Michaels/Cena? WM23, Raw 4/23, and the early 09 Raw matches (think there were two).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That was one I was close to suggesting, only thing that held it back for me was I couldn't remember for certain how many matches they'd had over the years. Anything from 4 or above would probably count in this criteria, and I can't recall a match of theirs being close to bad so aye that's definitely another contender.

I do think Orton/Benoit, Punk/Cena and Punk/Mysterio might be separated though just because of the number of matches they've had without any coming close to being below good.

Austin/Hart _could_ be considered, SS 96, that South Africa match I hear many cite as a gem in their collection and of course WM 13. Still, aside from that the rest of their series is either contained in the 4 way or the Canadian Stampede tag rather than out and out singles matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship PPV Matches Ever : 20-11 *


20.









John Cena vs Edge (Last Man Standing ; Backlash 2009) : ******


19.








The Undertaker vs Batista (Last Man Standing ; Backlash 2007) : ******

18.









John Cena vs Rey Mysterio vs Mike Knox vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Kane (Elimination Chamber ; No Way Out 2009) : ***** 1/4*


17.









Christian vs Randy Orton (Streetfight ; Summerslam 2011) : ***** 1/4*


16.









Chris Benoit vs Kane (Bad Blood 2004) : ***** 1/4*


15.









Randy Orton vs Christian (Over the Limit) : ***** 1/4*


14.









Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk (TLC ; Summerslam 2009) : ***** 1/4*


13.









The Undertaker vs Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio vs R-Truth vs John Morrison vs CM Punk (Elimination Chamber ; Elimination Chamber 2010) : ***** 1/4*


12.









Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton (Summerslam 2004) : ***** 1/4*


11.









Batista vs The Undertaker (W/ Referee Steve Austin ; Cyber Sunday 2007) : ***** 1/4*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker/HBK?

HIAC 97, RR 98, WM 25, WM 26

I don't remember Ground Zero 97 at all so I can't comment.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I find the Rumble and Ground Zero matches to be average in all honesty, and I'm not a _huge_ fan of the WM 25 encounter though it is good. HIAC and WM 26 are definitely classics though, and the exchange in the 07 Rumble can't be overlooked in terms of a mini match. But aye I'd probably lump them in the definitely terrific chemistry category, but just under those who never produced an average or below match.

FWIW I do realise this is essentially a terribly nit-picky criteria, but I do find it fun to try and see how many pairings got consistent opportunities against one another and managed to deliver every single time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker/HBK have the best chemistry in WWE History... Bar None.

IYHGZ 97 : ******
IYHBB 97 HIAC : ****** (GOAT Match , MOTY, MOTD)*
RR 98 Casket : ***** 1/4 (MOTY)*
WM XXV : ****** (MOTY, MOTD, #3 GOAT WWE)*
WM XXVI : ****** (MOTY, MOTD, #5 GOAT WWE)*

One of only two pairs to have three ***** matches (the lone WWE representative) alongside Flair and Steamboat.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think it could've been a different story had HBK not missed 4 years due to injury. Think about how many more Taker/HBK, HBK/Austin, HBK/Foley matches we could've had, not to mention at least 1 () HBK/Rock match.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Nice list so far, KingofKings


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Honorable mention to Rey/Jericho. Loved their feud a couple of years ago, and I'm sure they had some great WCW matches even if I can't recall anything other than Souled Out and BATB 98 (which I really enjoyed) at the moment.

edit - Jericho/HBK as well, I suppose. WM19 and they 2008 matches are all amazing.

Off topic, has anyone been more consistently amazing over the past 15-20 years than Rey Mysterio?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Not to my recollection, its staggering how better he got since he joined WWE as he slowly adapted to his depleting athleticism and injury ridden body and slowly developed a more well rounded striking game with the occasional high spot to still keep the crowd going. Not to mention how better he got at timing and pacing his matches to perfection, throwing in some great false comebacks to keep the crowd invested and build to his eventual comeback as well as bumping and selling his arse off to get anyone and everyone over. WWE hasn't ever had a better TV match worker and his list of weekly good-great matches since 2003 and beyond is simply staggering. From Noble to Tajiri to Eddie to Finlay to Morrison to Jericho to Punk to Henry to Orton etc the list just keeps on growing.

Tenryu in Japan has been pretty awesome in the same time frame as the relentlessly violent veteran fighting anyone and everyone, but strictly in America no-one can match Mysterio for consistency. Its quite frightening how he got so much better from his WCW days where he was a dazzling high flyer with a good sense of timing, compared to what he is now: aka a complete wrestler.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nice batch this round K1ngofK1ngs. I actually agree with most/I'm within 1/4* of yours. My order for the batch would be:

(****1/2)
1) Orton/Christian OTL 11
(****1/4)
2) Edge/Cena BL 09
3) Taker/Batista CS 07
4) Raw EC 2009
5) Punk/Hardy SS 09
6) Orton/Christian SS 11
(****)
7) Taker/Batista BL 07
8) Orton/Benoit SS 04
9) Benoit/Kane BB 04
10) SD EC 2010

I think I know a few matches that will be in the top 10. Taker/Angle NWO06 for sure or I'll have to kill you in your sleep  (hell, I might just consider that if it's not in your top 5  ), maybe their SD match as well (since I haven't seen that yet on your list I don't think). WM20 and BL04 Triple Threats and Batista I'm sure will be on there (I'm sure you have the Mania triple threat at ***** and I think I remember seeing you put Batista/HHH at *****). So that's half the rest of the list if I'm not mistaken. The other half... er... not sure.

My WHC Top 10 would be (I think I may have posted it a short time ago, but can't remember):

(*****)
1) Taker/Angle NWO 06
(****1/2)
2) Taker/Batista WM23 (Note: Between Taker/Batista WM23 and Batista/HHH Vengeance, I can never settle on which to put over the other. Both are even in my hands for different reasons, but ultimately... and this is no secret... I naturally enjoy a Taker match more than a HHH match, which is what it comes down to right now)
3) Batista/HHH Vengeance 05
4) Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20
5) Orton/Christian OTL 11
(****1/4)
6) Taker/Angle SD06
7) Edge/Cena BL 09
8) Benoit/HBK/HHH BL 04
9) Taker/Batista CS 07
10) Raw EC 2009

Wonder if I'm missing something. I feel like I am.

Also, K1ngofK1ng's, not sure if they were included in WWE Title matches (don't remember), but maybe you could do a separate list for all the Undisputed Title matches on TV/PPV (I'm sure there can't be more than 75 of them... I think). That would be an interesting list imo. Hell, I'd probably do it if I wanted to have nightmares about Taker/HHH KOTR again. 

As far as best chemistry, hands down Taker/HBK. Three classics, and worst match is still very good. Not to mention their Rumble mini-match being the best Rumble ending sequence ever imo, it's those two easily for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would give the '09 Raw Chamber ****1/2. Really, really entertaining match. It's my 3rd favorite behind Raw '08 (****1/4) and Raw '05 (****3/4).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My top 5 EC would be:

(****1/2)
1) SVS 02
(****1/4)
2) NYR 05
3) Raw EC 09
4) SD EC 11
(****)
5) SD EC 10

Edit: After that I'd have SD EC 2009, followed by Raw EC 2008. Then I have no idea what comes next.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The main reason why I only rank PPV matches , is that I feel the need to watch EVERYTHING that I'm ranking. What I mean by that is, if I want to include one TV match that I think is awesome, I'd have to review all the Championship TV matches in order to give the great ones justice. 

There's just so fucking many of them, and they include matches such as Yoko/Crush and other AMAZING matches... Even if I'm 99.9 percent sure the match will suck, I NEED to watch it in order to give it a fair review. I HATE it when somebody rates something without actually seeing it (A staple that I think we see far too often, leading to various matches becoming overrated/ underrated).

I'm sure that if I included TV matches, we'd have Taker/Angle from SD 06, HHH/Benoit from Raw 04, HBK/Benoit from Raw 04, and the like...But if I included those, I'd feel the need to go out of my way and watch every single WHC TV match ever...Think I'm going to go look and see how many there exactly are, because if there's less than 70 or so, I might consider taking you up on that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> From Noble to Tajiri to Eddie to Finlay to Morrison to Jericho to Punk to Henry to Orton etc the list just keeps on growing.


I know people love to shit on Morrison, but there was a time a few years ago when he was on fire putting on great matches on a weekly basis. The IC title match on SD vs Rey when Rey was going on suspension is one of my favorite matches in recent years.

edit - I have a soft spot for the NYR05 EC match because it ended with HHH being TEN TIMES THE KING~! It was an amazing setup for the inevitable Batista/H collision at Mania as well, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Morrison's ring work pretty much owned other than 2006. His tag work with Mercury & Miz was pretty great too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

My issue with Morrison is he's just not believeable enough to me in certain settings. I get they wanted to recreate the HBK Sexy Boy gimmick and get him over primarily with the women for his looks and the males for his athleticism, but to me he just wasn't good enough to be a face: the things he struggled at where covered up far better as a heel where he could rely more on douchebag behaviour and signature offence. I mean to me, he peaked in MNM (who were fucking awesome and a legit Best Team of the Decade contender for WWE) and then after that would have occasional glimpses of good showings under the Morrison character. Never really enjoyed ECW era Johnny Nitro at all.

His offence was generally pretty dire, especially when he began focusing more of forearm, knee and kick strikes. He just didn't look like a 'striker' in any respect of the word and I could never muster any interest in those matches. If he was going to stick to a babyface he should have just been a flyer with the odd traditional wrestling move to establish he had a bit of technical awareness. Whoever thought he should incorporate more strikes into his game really needs a kick in the head, everything about his look made it impossible to take his strikes seriously.

He was a really good seller when he wanted to be however. The TLC Ladder match vs Sheamus is probably the best singles ladder match the company put on since Benoit/Jericho Royal Rumble 2001. Creative and innovative use of the ladder by Sheamus, great selling by Morrison coupled by a central focus of the limb in everything Sheamus did, smart teasing and then later delivering on visually pleasing spots which were creative and also helped add to the drama with Morrison desperately needing a comeback and they at least managed to make the typically poor 'slow climb' realistic with Morrison having one leg fucked. The only really blatant choreographed spot came right at the end and looked suitably brutal, and for the most part the match was built around the ladder coming into play to incapacitate Morrison instead of elaborate spot after elaborate spot.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> The main reason why I only rank PPV matches , is that I feel the need to watch EVERYTHING that I'm ranking. What I mean by that is, if I want to include one TV match that I think is awesome, I'd have to review all the Championship TV matches in order to give the great ones justice.
> 
> There's just so fucking many of them, and they include matches such as Yoko/Crush and other AMAZING matches... Even if I'm 99.9 percent sure the match will suck, I NEED to watch it in order to give it a fair review. I HATE it when somebody rates something without actually seeing it (A staple that I think we see far too often, leading to various matches becoming overrated/ underrated).
> 
> I'm sure that if I included TV matches, we'd have Taker/Angle from SD 06, HHH/Benoit from Raw 04, HBK/Benoit from Raw 04, and the like...But if I included those, I'd feel the need to go out of my way and watch every single WHC TV match ever...Think I'm going to go look and see how many there exactly are, because if there's less than 70 or so, I might consider taking you up on that.


I'm sure there's quite a bit for WHC and WWE Title matches... though I actually don't know why I predicted Taker/Angle SD06 since I knew you were only doing PPV matches.

For Undisputed title matches though, there surely can't be more than 70 matches in total. I mean, off the top of my head:

Jericho/Austin Vengeance 01
Jericho/Rock RR
Jericho/Maven on Raw/SD (if that was for the Undisputed Title)
Jericho/Austin NWO
Jericho/HHH WM18
HHH/Jericho/Stephanie Raw
HHH/Hogan BL
Hogan/Jericho SD
Hogan/Flair Raw/SD
Hogan/Taker JD
Taker/RVD Raw after JD
Taker/Orton Raw/SD (if match was for Undisputed Title, it was a squash)
Taker/HHH KOTR
Taker/Hardy Raw Ladder Match
Taker/Angle SD same week of Raw ladder match with Jeff
Taker/Rock/Angle Vengeance 02
Rock/Eddie Raw (if it was for title)
Rock/Benoit SD 
Rock/Lesnar SS (last Undisputed Title match) 

19 matches from my count if all of those were for the Undisputed title. May be missing one. I'm not sure, but Taker may have faced Jeff a week before the ladder match for the title which then lead to the ladder match, but I may be completely off on that one.

Speaking of Undisputed title, Taker's run owned. The Vengeance triple threat, the ladder match with Hardy, and the SD match with Angle were all awesome. Also I believe the RVD match on Raw was good as well, though I need to re-watch it. That's the one where RVD pinned Taker with Taker's foot on the rope, and Flair restarts the match. Of course, there were his PPV matches with Hogan and HHH... which were poor, especially the HHH match. The Hogan match at least you could've expected that being Hogan, but HHH? Even if by that point it was clear he was a shell of his former self, I'd still think he could do better than Hogan. Damn, that match was a mess.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Elimination Chamber matches ranked out of those I've seen.

1. NYR 2005 (****1/2)
2. SVS 2002 (****1/4)
3. NYR 2006 (****)
4. Smackdown EC 2011 (***3/4)
5. Raw EC 2011 (***1/2)
6. Smackdown EC 2012 (***1/4)
7. Raw EC 2012 (***)
8. SS 2002 (**3/4)

Haven't seen December to Dismember 06 or the 08/09 ones and I need to rewatch the ones in 2010. This also reminds of why I hate the gimmick PPVs. It feels a lot more special when a match only happens once a year at most and is an 'exclusive' match of type like the EC used to be before 08 and MITB before the PPV with the same name. Now, they happen twice a year, the list gets huge and it no longer feels special. The biggest offender is still HIAC, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Off topic, has anyone been more consistently amazing over the past 15-20 years than Rey Mysterio?


Nup.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Didn't care for the Raw '06 EC. Thought it was just booked really oddly.

I keep forgetting 2010 SD one. Pretty underrated.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wasn't the 06 EC the one with Carlito and Masters, who ended up being 2 of the last 3?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao Yes.

Had a monster HBK blade job too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I remember my interest in the match declining heavily once Angle and HBK were eliminated


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Wasn't the 06 EC the one with Carlito and Masters, who ended up being 2 of the last 3?


Yeah. I really liked that match despite the risk they took with the ending. It probably wouldn't have been looked at as fondly now or even remembered had it not been for Edge cashing in, though.

And I'm surprised at how much Cena was bleeding even though he spent most of the match laying in a corner. How many times has he been bleeding that much in the past? I can count the week before NYR in the first blood match with Angle, JD 05 with JBL, LMS with Umaga and WM23 with HBK after that piledriver on the steel steps. (very gutsy of him to blade on the top of his head)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Who was the 6th guy in the match?

Cena
Carlito
Masters
HBK
Angle
???

Kane?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Hate the EC '06 with a passion, how bad of a night would that have been if Edge didn't cash in.
Kurt was quickly eliminated and it all went downhill from there.

NYR '05 & RAW '09 are my two best EC matches.



The Lady Killer said:


> Who was the 6th guy in the match?
> 
> Cena
> Carlito
> ...


yeah it was Kane


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would like to mention that I feel Kane is very underrated as a wrestler and as a character. He won't go out putting on amazing matches, but he's consistently decent+ when not put in ridiculous feuds.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There were so many times when I wished HBK would win one of the title matches he was in between 2004-retirement.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lmao same.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Would like to mention that I feel Kane is very underrated as a wrestler and as a character. He won't go out putting on amazing matches, but he's consistently decent+ when not put in ridiculous feuds.


KANE imho has always fuckin ruled. His promos during his World Championship reign were (Y).

MY BROTHER


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

kane's world title promos killed my interest in wrestling

i still havent recovered


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KATIE VICK


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've always liked Kane in the upper mid card/fighting in multi-man title matches, but my interest dwindled greatly during one-on-one main events involving him or times he was champ.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kane is the perfect example of a wrestler that is better away from the title than with it. His character is built in a way where a title isn't really necessary, and he never really had a good singles title reign in his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Redead said:


> kane's world title promos killed my interest in wrestling
> 
> i still havent recovered


c'mon



Starbuck said:


> KATIE VICK


H screwed her brains out.



The Lady Killer said:


> I've always liked Kane in the upper mid card/fighting in multi-man title matches, but my interest dwindled greatly during one-on-one main events involving him or times he was champ.


Kane getting his chance to shine in 2010 was enough to keep me interested in the product. Owning Rey and all that good stuff. Made Kane feel like a monster again. Up until the eventual return w/mask.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Return w/mask was legit until he was made to look like a buffoon against Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't surprising though. He's in a better place now. Rolling with DANIELSON. Now that's legit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I like where he's at now. Would like to see Bryan move back to main event scene once this is over, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Like I've said before, I'm sure he will. HHH/Vince can't possibly be that dumb to ignore how OVER he is right now. Sells merch, delivers on the mic and obviously in the ring. Complete package right there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WWE title picture is fairly crowded for the foreseeable future, though. Maybe next summer will be the SUMMER OF BRYAN~!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Smackdown - 6th January, 2006*

Falls Count Anywhere - Matt Hardy vs. JBL - **3/4
Mark Henry Jobber Squash - SQUASH
Kid Kash vs. Juventud - ***
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - *** 1/4
The Gymini vs. Londrick - *1/2
Steel Cage - Batista/Rey vs. MNM - *1/4

Two good matches, one decent match, one horrible match and two squashes. Decent start, I'd say.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That sounds like a really nice card for a SD. I remember seeing the episode when it happened.

And I didn't care for Kane's 2010 reign but I really just didn't like the booking of it. A Taker/Kane HIAC had so much potential.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hell in a Cell...ugh idk what happened there. Don't even get me started on the WWF 1995 style ending of the match too.

I'll much rather watch the No Holds Barred or Buried Alive matches. HIAC never happened in my mind.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I recall liking the no holds barred one. Can only remember the end of buried alive with Nexus which I'm a little disappointed they never explained.

Would just like to point out that 2003 Kane fucking OWNED. Especially that mean streak when the mask came off.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nexus was only there as some random filler job. That match wasn't even supposed to happen for Bragging Rights. Only did because Undertaker was reinjured and couldn't work Survivor Series. So it seemed like they stuck Nexus there for more heat.

Would you say Kane was ON FIRE that year? Oh, yeah. I pun'ed the hell out of that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Didn't know Taker got re injured. I always thought he just took some time off to get ready for Mania. Good to know. 

He really was. :lmao

I remember Kane & Big Show absolutely owning when they first team up in '05. It was that damn MAY 19TH angle that hurt him.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

As soon as it was revealed that Kane was Taker's attacker i lost interest in Kane.
Bearer returning got my attention but when he turned on Taker i went back to not caring about the feud.

At the same time Punk was doing that feud with Show so SD became unwatchable for me.



Brye said:


> Didn't know Taker got re injured. I always thought he just took some time off to get ready for Mania. Good to know.
> 
> He really was. :lmao
> 
> I remember Kane & Big Show absolutely owning when they first team up in '05. It was that damn MAY 19TH angle that hurt him.


Didn't they have a match on RAW where Show didn't want to anger Kane so he made it into a technical match ?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Kinda liked Kane's promos in 2010, but that feud with Edge was the worst thing in the history of anything. Kane's had a pretty consistently good 2012, though. Fun stuff with Cena, then Orton, then Punk, then Bryan, and some of the backstage segments he's had aren't going to be forgotten any time soon.

Glad someone's watching the 06 SDs. I liked Juvi/Kash quite a lot, and Hardy/JBL was a bunch of fun. Benoit/Orton was good, but the week after they have a really, really, REALLY good match. Batista/Rey v MNM cage sucked ass.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I enjoyed the Edge feud, purely because it was one of the stupidest things I ever saw in my life

Edge kidnapping Paul, dragging him around week to week (without anyone noticing) and having the camera man taping Edge torture and feed paul was one of the most retarded things I have ever seen, and I loved that

dont even get me started on the fake paul bearers and kane killing paul

But if I have to hear devils favourite demon one more time, Im burning down this forum. Those promos gave me cancer. so dull, so pointless. Id rather listen to cena ramble about his garbage. or even orton


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship PPV Matches Ever : 10-6*


10.









Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Rob Van Dam vs Booker T vs Chris Jericho vs Kane (Elimination Chamber ; Survivor Series 2002) : ***** 1/2*


9.









Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Ladder ; No Mercy 2008) : ***** 1/2*


8.









Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan (2/3 Falls ; Extreme Rules 2012) : ***** 1/2*


7.









Batista vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII) : ***** 1/2*


6.









Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Backlash 2004) : ***** 1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Michaels (Ladder) is probably the best World Championship match the WWE has put out. *****.

(Y) @ putting Danielson/Sheamus in the top ten.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've still never seen the first elimination chamber. 

Bryan/Sheamus stuck out being that high on the list because it happened so recently, but I can't actually think of very many PPV WHC matches better. I should watch all of the ones I haven't seen since their aren't THAT many.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Have Bryan/Sheamus at ****, but nice to see it get some recognition. Besides that, drop the triple threat and 1/4* (and thus dropping it down below the ****1/2 matches) and we're on pretty much the same wavelength.

Edit: Also, here's my updated WHC list since I completely forgot for some reason NYR 05 and the HBK/Jericho ladder match were World Title matches :lmao Also I realized I left out SVS EC... guess I wasn't thinking about those chamber matches for some fucking reason I don't know, but I did remember Raw's 09 EC  Also have another match I forgot to add on, and I think I'm gonna shoot myself for forgetting it:

(*****)
1) Taker/Angle NWO 06
(****1/2)
2) Taker/Batista WM23 
3) Batista/HHH Vengeance 05
4) Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20
5) HBK/Jericho NM08
6) SVS EC
7) Orton/Christian OTL 11
(****1/4)
8) Edge/Cena BL 09
9) Undertaker/Edge WM24
10) NYR 05 EC


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I havent seen the triple threat.

Still, having those 3 go at it in Canada sounds fantastic


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Love that first Chamber match. I'm actually on board with those picks. Sheamus/Bryan might be a little lower (****1/4) and thus possibly bumping it out of the top 10 if I constructed a list, but it's a really good match. PSYCHOLOGY~! is off the charts in that one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You guys wanna throw out your top 10's (since I might throw out my top 5 very,very soon) ?

Compiling a list of all the TV WHC matches... There actually AREN'T as many as I had anticipated believe it or not. Just more :hhh matches to watch, which is always awesome


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Put World Title list in last post, but here's my Top 10 WWE title and Undisputed Title matches lists (only top 5 for Undisputed since there's less than 20 matches).

WWE Title Top 10 (PPV's Only):

(*****)
1) Benoit vs. Angle RR 03
2) Cactus Jack vs. HHH RR 00
3) CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan OTL
4) Rock vs. Austin WM17
(****3/4)
5) Undertaker vs. Lesnar NM 02
6) Austin vs. Angle SS 01
(****1/2)
7) Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL JD 04
8) CM Punk vs. Cena MITB 11
9) Rock vs. HHH BL 00
10) Cena vs. Umaga RR 07

Undisputed Title Top 5 (since there's so few matches):

(****1/2)
1) Undertaker vs. Rock vs. Angle Vengeance 2002
(****1/4)
2) Rock vs. Jericho RR 02
(****)
3) Undertaker vs. Jeff Raw Ladder Match 02
4) Lesnar vs. Rock SS 02
5) Undertaker vs. Angle SD 02


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Jericho vs Michaels (Ladder) is probably the best World Championship match the WWE has put out. *****.
> 
> (Y) @ putting Danielson/Sheamus in the top ten.


Only if Angle/Taker from NWO never happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A top list from me? Need to rewatch a few I don't own so I'll rough draft a top 20:


1) Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***** (No Mercy 2008)

2) Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***** (WrestleMania 20)

3) Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***** (Backlash 2004)

4) The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle ~ ****3/4 (No Way Out 2006)

5) Triple H vs Batista ~ ****1/2 (Vengeance 2005)

6) Triple H vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs Batista ~ ****1/2 (New Year's Revolution 2005)

7) Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ~ ****1/4 (Extreme Rules 2012)

8) John Cena vs Edge ~ ****1/4 (Backlash 2009)

9) CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy ~ ****1/4 (Summerslam 2009)

10) Edge vs Kane vs Big Show vs Rey Mysterio vs Wade Barrett vs Drew McIntyre ~ ****1/4 (Elimination Chamber 2011)

11) The Undertaker vs Edge ~ ****1/4 (WrestleMania 24)

12) Randy Orton vs Christian ~ ****1/4 (Over The Limit 2011)

13) The Undertaker vs Batista ~ **** (WrestleMania 23)

14) John Cena vs Chris Jericho ~ **** (Survivor Series 2008)

15) Rey Mysterio vs Jack Swagger ~ **** (Money In The Bank 2010)

16) Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho vs Kane vs Rob Van Dam vs Booker T ~ **** (Survivor Series 2002)

17) John Cena vs Chris Jericho vs Edge vs Kane vs Rey Mysterio vs Mike Knox ~ **** (No Way Out 2009)

18) Edge vs Kane vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio ~ **** (TLC 2010)

19) Edge vs Jeff Hardy ~ **** (Extreme Rules 2009)

20) The Undertaker vs Batista ~ **** (Backlash 2007)​

Benoit/Orton (Summerslam 04), Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07), Edge/Batista (Night of Champions 2008), Christian/Del Rio (Extreme Rules 2011), Orton/Christian (Summerslam 2011) are all ones I know are great and might make my list. I just need to refresh my memory of where they would stand.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Smackdown - January 13, 2006*
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit - ****1/4 _(Holy fuck, I think I have a new favourite TV match. Must watch for ANYBODY, IMO.)_
World Hevayweight Championship Battle Royal - ***1/2

A TV classic and a forgettable battle royal (aren't they all.) I'm more than happy. Why haven't I seen that Benoit/Orton match before? I actually prefer this to their Summerslam 2004 match, and I've always pimped that match a fair bit.


*Smackdown - January 20, 2006*
JBL vs. Bobby Lashley *1/4 _(Lashley fucking sucks)_
Matt Hardy vs. the GOAT Fit Finlay - *** 
Rey Mysterio vs. Mark Henry - **3/4
Randy Orton vs. Orlando Jordan - **3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Daivari - Meh

Finlay debut :mark: Mysterio be Mysterio, Orton be Orton. Not the best for 2006 standards but I'd take this over a lot of the shit we've got since then.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Where can I find the 2006 SmackDown shows?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My SD 06 ratings from what you've done so far (I only watched the matches I wanted to, not everything):

Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown January 6th 2006 - **1/2 (not very good at all, screws up Segunda's idea of them having the perfect chemistry or whatever )
Rey Mysterio & Batista Vs MNM - Cage Match - Smackdown January 6th 2006 - 1/4* (GOD AWFUL)

Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown January 13th 2006 - ****1/2 (YES! YES! YES! YES!)
20 Man Battle Royal - WHC - Smackdown January 13th 2006 - ***3/4

Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - Smackdown January 20th 2006 - ***
Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown January 20th 2006 - ***1/4


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Are there actually any ~4 star material battle royale's?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hmmmm... don't think so. Royal Rumble's, yeah, but battle royales... can't think of any. Best 2 off the top of my head are that SD 06 one and the Raw 04 one where Orton won #1 contendership for SS (same night as Benoit/HHH Iron Man). Would have both at ***3/4.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

WrestleMania X7 Gimmick Battle Royal! Heh.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Mysterio/Henry 2006 is awesome, shows Henry's potential before his monster 2011 run as someone who always had the ability in him but was held back by management.

Finlay debut may be one of the better debuts of all time. Just a perfect introduction to the character and his motivations in the ring, completely unique and creative offence to separate himself from other traditional debut matches etc.

Can't remember a legit awesome battle royal on TV, but they're usually fun as fuck. The 2012 one on Smackdown which Santino won was honestly incredibly entertaining to see all these undercarders basically just try and make a name for themselves in 20 minutes, and you got some really fun interactions and multiple feuds continuing (Usos focusing on Epico/Primo, other lowcard feuds having both guys attack the other repeatedly). Think that 2006 one is usually in the discussion for best ever though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

IDK about four star match but Mr. Perfect's performance in one battle royal on the SNME set is incredible with all the bumping he did for the faces.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Mr.Perfect, I recently bought the Life and Times of... DVD (region 1 as its alot cheaper), havnt seen a couple of the earlier matches on the set, always been a favorite wrestler of mine.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Benoit/Orton match that ends the Best of 7 series between Booker and Benoit is awesome. I thought it had a bit too much drama and was extended for a bit too long with Booker and Sharmell taking too much of the attention (which makes sense here, I guess) but it was Orton and Benoit doing what they do best together and that's create great matches.



Jimix said:


> Where can I find the 2006 SmackDown shows?


Xtremewrestlingtorrents has them up, I'm halfway through downloading. It will take a few days but is worth it.

----------------------------------------------

Also top 10 WHC matches I can think of in no specific order: (Not seen all of them so take this list with a grain of salt)

Benoit/HHH/HBK (WM20)
Elimination Chamber 2005 (NYR)
Angle/Undertaker (NWO 06)
Batista/Undertaker (WM23)
Benoit/HHH/HBK (BL 04)
Orton/Benoit (SS 04)
Batista/HHH (Vengeance 05)
Orton/Christian (OTL 11)
Elimination Chamber 2002 (SVS)
Undertaker/Batista (BL 07)

I really need to watch HBK/Y2J at NM 08.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm looking to download that '06 season right now as well.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

I don't find it on XWT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jimix said:


> I don't find it on XWT.


It's together with 2004, 2005 and 2007. Just search for packs with "Smackdown" and you should come across it.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

YES!!! I've just found it, thank you very much!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 75 World Heavyweight Championship Matches Ever : 5-1*


5.









Edge vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV) : ***** 1/2*


4.









Triple H vs Batista vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit vs Edge (Elimination Chamber ; New Years Revolution 2005) : ***** 3/4*


3.









Batista vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell ; Vengeance 2005) : ***** 3/4*


2.









Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker (No Way Out 2006) : *******


1.









Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania XX) : *******


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

THE GAME in 3 of the top 5. HHH in big matches = :hb


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I would more or less say I agree with that top 5. (Y)

I really enjoy that Edge/Taker match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd swap 1 and 2, but other than that I can't think of 5 better WHC matches off the top of my head.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Excellent top 5 and pretty much the way to end it.

And also, is it me or do the ringside cameras make the events look like they take place in a ghost town like the Taker/Angle pic? Whether it's the bright lights of SummerSlam or any other events, such pics make those places look a lot darker than they appear in video form.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So with rumours of a potential Punk/Undertaker match at WM, I thought I'd FINALLY get off my arse (figuratively anyway, my arse stayed in the chair the entire time I searched and downloaded the matches lol) and watch their 09 series for the first time since... well 09.


CM Punk Vs The Undertaker - Breaking Point 2009

Match is submission only. Undertaker has NEVER lost via submission. The match takes place in Montreal. Lets face it, everyone and their drunken scottish friend knew there was gonna be a screw job at the end, but that doesn't mean the match can't be really good!

Punk gets some strikes in early on, and looks cocky as shit, only for Undertaker to shake everything off and begin to maul the WHC with rights, lefts, and boots to the face. I'll go to my grave calling the Dead Man the best "striker" (as WWE likes to call him) of all time. Not because WWE say he is, because he legit fucking IS.

Anywho, Punk gets a little control on the outside in a nice spot with Undertaker doing the old "running boot gets caught on the ropes" routine, only he gets caught on the barricade instead and it looks pretty painful. 

Punk gets bits of offence in here and there with Undertaker mainly keeping control of the match, but any time Punk DOES get something in, its big. The superplex for one, and the HUGE kick to the head. Just before the kick, Undertaker is beating the hell out of Punk and signals for a chokeslam, and you can actually see him with a huge silly grin on his face like he's having the time of his life lol.

So Punk kicks 'Taker, but when reaching down, Punk gets caught in Hells Gate! Tap out! New champ! New champ! New champ! STONE COLD. STO... UNDERTAKER! UNDERTAKER!

Dammit, worst GM ever, Teddy Long, has to remind us that Hells Gate was suspended back in fucking 2008 by Vickie Guerrero so the match will continue. Screw job on its way! 

Last Ride attempt is reversed, and Punk locks in the Anaconda Vice and the ref calls for the bell! Punk wins! Punk wins! Punk wins! STONE COLD! STON.. UNDERTA... PUNK! PUNK! PUNK!

Match is fairly short and has the screw job finish which is all kinda fast and comes out of nowhere. Its not a BAD match in any sense of the word, but it isn't exactly a classic either lol. Doesn't get time to develop into anything special, and the finish kinda takes away from it too.

Rating: **1/2


CM Punk Vs The Undertaker - Hell in a Cell 2009

Watching the video package before the match makes me remember how fucking silly some of this shit was. "WHERE TO, TEDDY?" :lmao and of course, the reasoning behind the whole thing from Teddy Long: "I have a family" :lmao. I still don't think they ever explained WHY Vince and helped Punk screw Undertaker lol.

Man, Punk is great in this. From being so scared early on that he falls to the floor and rolls out of the ring, to how he takes his beating on the outside being thrown into the cell and whatnot, to him gaining the upperhand and going after the leg. Crowd are hot for this one, chanting for BOTH men.

Love Punk's running knee to the face on the apron rather than how he's do it in the ring, then Undertaker countering the follow up bulldog buy launching Punk into the side of the cell. 

'Taker is great too of course, and takes some bumps into the cell, as well as continuing to sell the leg work from Punk all through the match. Also, I think he may be wearing white underwear . 

Damn, match is just barely over 10 minutes, and holy fuck is it WAY better than I remembered. Despite Punk losing the belt, he looks great throughout. Undertaker sells the leg incredibly well, and the whole match is genuinely really good. With everything they did in the match, it felt twice as long. Wish I'd gotten around to re-watching this sooner!

Rating: ***1/2


CM PUnk Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 10/23/2009

Teddy Long and Scott Armstrong are out for this match with Punk. Teddy at ringside and Armstrong as the referee, with Punk basically saying he's gonna screw Undertaker again and regain his title. Submission match too!

I remember this match being the best of their 09 series, so I can't wait to see it again!

Oh yeah, anyone remember the theme song for SD during this time? Loved it. Way, way better than the shite they have now.

Punk looks fucking GIDDY on the outside because he has his plan. Undertaker while handing over the title to Armstrong gives the ref a look that would kill him and his entire family. Little things. Gotta love em.

Oh man, the exchange early on where Punk almost locks in the Vice and UNDERTAKER looks desperate to escape then backs away while looking at the ref is like, fucking AWESOME. Wonderful storytelling from such a simple exchange :mark:.

Shhhiiiiiit, that bump from Undertaker where he gets his leg caught up in the ropes? DAMN. Undertaker wasn't 100% during his 09 title run, but fuck, aside from his matches not being too long, you really couldn't tell. He still bumps like a motherfucker, and you just HAVE to respect him for that. He might not be 100% but dammit he gives 100%.

Punk being just as desperate while escaping from Hells Gate as Undertaker was earlier is a neat little callback from the beginning of the match .

Punk gets control of the match again, and gets Teddy Long and Armstrong to give him a chair so he can hopefully finish the match and get his title back. Except Undertaker blocks the chair shot and takes out the ref with a chokeslam!!! Teddy runs away as Punk locks in the Anaconda Vice, signaling to Teddy to ring the bell. Teddy calls out another referee because apparently he can't end a match, and the new referee isn't biased! Undertaker counters into Hells Gate, and the Dead Man retains!

Yeah, this is great, and definitely their best 09 match together, yet still behind their 2010 match which is pretty fucking AWESOME. Well worth a watch for sure, bitches!

Rating: ***3/4


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Just got done watching Survivor Series 2001. PPV doesn't really stand up well at all after all these years. Wasn't as good as i remember it being.

Highlights of the PPV for me were the epic video intro, the hardy's/Dudleys cage match and DAT CREED VIDEO PACKAGE. Seriously might be my favourite video package of all time even surpassing My Way.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I thought Taker has tapped out to Angle before?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match has controversy with Undertaker tapping and Angle being pinned at the same time, so it was a draw with neither being a winner so he never technically tapped out.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ah, touche. 

I don't recall the Punk/Taker series much other than "Where to, Teddy" which was :lmao. Might have to go check it out. What was the 2010 match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match is from 10th September 2010. Was when Undertaker was still selling the attack from Kane that put him out for a while, and holy fuck did he do a TREMENDOUS job throughout the match. Might be the best example of a wrestler selling EVER. So pleased it was released on the best of SD 09-10 Bluray. Seeing matches like that in HD is :mark:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is the 2010 match the one where Punk does the GTS then when he goes for a pin, he gets countered with a Hell's Gate and taps?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, that's how the match ends. My review of it:



Spoiler: punk vs taker 2010



*The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 10/09/2010*

Not often I get the "big match feel" from a TV main event these days, but they managed to do it here thanks to the great promo at the start of the show between these two men, and the fact that Punk sent the SES to the back so he could do this on his own.

Punk is determined to make a statement tonight against The Undertaker, while The Undertaker is here to show his brother Kane that despite not being 100%, and having not wrestled for a couple of months, he can still go. Pretty high stakes for both men in terms of storylines (Undertaker) and character (Punk).

Pointed this out in the SD thread, but I gotta mention it again; the pop Undertaker gets for doing nothing more than taking off his hood and rolling his eyes back is EPIC.

Undertaker is taking things slowly, not rushing into anything straight away, because he realises he isn't at his best, and Punk IS a dangerous man. Despite a slow start though, Undertaker gets in control as he begins to work over the arm, setting up to Old School and then something bigger. However, in his weakened state, Undertaker isn't able to keep his balance and falls on the ropes. Punk looks a little shocked at what just happened, but doesn't waste much time in taking advantage.

The awesomeness that is Punk comes out now, as he starts working over the arm and screams "how do you like it?" at Undertaker. Undertaker makes Punk look like a million *insert currency here* with how he takes Punk's offence and how he sells it too. Not often you see Undertaker getting dropped from a single Punk, especially not from a smaller guy, but it happens here. Undertaker knows exactly how his character should be acting due to the circumstances, and he plays it better than maybe anyone else in the world could. Going back to what Clique said about Undertaker being the best seller ever, matches like this prove that he might very well be the best seller in the world RIGHT NOW at the very least.

We get a few Undertaker hope spots, but between Punk cutting him off, and Undertaker simply not being able to follow up, Punk continues to control this match and looks certain to win.

Punk continues to look extremely strong in this match even when Undertaker is making a comeback, mainly during the part where he goes punch for punch with the Dead Man in the centre of the ring for longer than anyone Punk's size should, and also kicking out of a Chokeslam!

The finish keeps Punk looking strong too, as he finally hits the GTS, but can't follow up straight away due to taking the Chokeslam a few moments ago. When he finally crawls over for the cover, Undertaker pulls out THAT SUBMISSION HOLD and gets the victory. Like I said, keeps Punk looking strong due to kicking out of the Chokeslam and managing to hit his finisher, and then showing us that The Undertaker can still pull out the quick win when it comes down to it. Helps with the build to the NOC match with Kane too.

This is one hell of a match. Undertaker sold his "condition" incredibly, and Punk looked fantastic with his offence and how he controlled 90% of this match, and came sooooo damn close to actually winning. Kept both men looking strong, and continued the great build up to Kane Vs The Undertaker. Not sure if I would call it the current TV MOTY, but its real close.

*Rating: *****


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was just watching Taker/HHH from Mania 28 the other day and thought I'd raise this question for the thread:

What is the best nearfall you've ever seen? I'm sure this topic has been addressed before, but I don't recall it being discussed in this thread (and most of the best WWE posters post in here, so rather than make a thread in the Generic section I'm asking it here).

I'll get the discussion started with HHH Tombstoning Taker @ WM27 and Taker kicking out of the DX finisher combo @ WM28.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

^^ Is thar the match on the 2011 Annual Set by any chance?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tombstone kickout at Mania 27 is a big one. Between the amount of pedigrees HHH failed with, and the symbolism behind the move I thought for sure he'd ended it. Funny story was that despite never being a supporter of these 'HHH is the biggest asshole everz' groups, the minute the ref started to count my initial thought was 'that big nosed bastard has booked himself to win it hasn't he?'...must be a bigger Taker fan subconsciously than I ever thought I was :lmao.

It might be pretty tame all things considered, but Sheamus kicking out of the AA at Money In the Bank 2010 really shocked me. The whole finishing stretch with Nexus surrounding the ring and Cena looking in trouble, only to counter at the last minute and hit an AA from out of nowhere..it just felt like the perfect finish which made no sense (Sheamus only having won the belt the month prior) and I figured it was their way of hotshotting the belt into the Cena/Nexus feud. So to see Sheamus kick out as I was already lambasting creative for killing another young guy before he'd even had a proper chance caught me completely off guard.

From my younger days, Taker kicking out of the Sledgehammer at Wrestlemania 17 was pretty big. I'd only just gotten into WWF a few months prior, so had no clue about the winning streak (even if it wasn't properly referenced at the time) and bought it as the finish.

There are tons of amazing false finishes in Puro and Lucha, the Villano/Atlantis Mask vs Mask match from 2000 being the obvious frontrunner. An insane amount of nearfalls from pinning combinations and each one was timed superbly and had me on the edge of my seat trying to figure out who was winning. The one true advantage of Lucha not operating in the US style of having 'traditional finishers' and instead having any move be capable of winning even the biggest of matches.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Does anyone have a HD link to the Taker vs Punk match?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/HHH @ Mania 27. I was there live for that and legit shit a brick. I have my reaction on video too because I was recording when it happened. So fucking funny lol. OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, OH MY GAWDDDD!!! WHAT!! WHAT!! NOOOO, NOOOO, YESSSSSSS, YESSSSSS, YESSSSSS, ONE, TWO, THRE-NOOOOOOOHHHHHMYYYYYGAWWWDDDD WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED HOLY FUCKING SHITTTTTTT AHHHHHHH! It goes something like that lol.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Taker/HHH @ Mania 27. I was there live for that and legit shit a brick. I have my reaction on video too because I was recording when it happened. So fucking funny lol. OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, OH MY GAWDDDD!!! WHAT!! WHAT!! NOOOO, NOOOO, YESSSSSSS, YESSSSSS, YESSSSSS, ONE, TWO, THRE-NOOOOOOOHHHHHMYYYYYGAWWWDDDD WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED HOLY FUCKING SHITTTTTTT AHHHHHHH! It goes something like that lol.


:vince


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Two people I was with for WM 27 had a $100 bet on Taker/Trips. Made the reactions all the better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK kicking out of the Tombstone at WM 25 was bigger than the WM 27 Undertaker kicking out of the Tombstone imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> HBK kicking out of the Tombstone at WM 25 was bigger than the WM 27 Undertaker kicking out of the Tombstone imo.


Was there live for both. Taker kicking out of the Tombstone felt like the bigger moment, mostly because if HBK didn't kick out, Taker just would have won the match but Taker not kicking out = STREAK OVER. The stadium legit lost their shit at that lol. Incredible moment.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FUCK I need to experience a WM live.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Every fan needs to go to at least one. It's just incredible. WWE may fuck with your brain 364 days of the year lol but on that one night it's all worth it, to sit there, to feel it and to get carried away by it all. There's nothing like Wrestlemania live.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been to tons of house shows from the late 80s onward, a few Raws, and a couple PPVs, but I still feel I'm missing something. Might check out those travel packages for 29.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WWE live is awesome. Wrestlemania live is an experience. The whole weekend from the HOF to Mania to Raw. I just fucking love it lol and I actually think I need it tbh. It reminds me why I watch this shit and put up with all the crap they dole out the majority of the year. If I didn't go and experience that high I think it would really get to me lol.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk kicking out of the AA @ MITB 11 was pretty awesome.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best false finishes in recent memory:

-Taker kicking out of the tombstone at WM27 was something else. I really thought I was going to have to add HHH to my permanent "shit" list as the ref was counting the 1-2. I actually thought the match could've ended on the third pedigree, but I genuinely believed Taker was done with that tombstone.

-Barrett kicking out of the AA at HIAC is another one I thought wasn't going to happen. He looked really strong coming out of the match because of that, even if he didn't win clean (not like I was expecting it anyway).

-Batista kicking out of the tombstone at SVS 2007 in the cell was something I was not expecting. To that point the last time I could think of someone kicking out of the tombstone was WM14. I was sure Taker had the title won there, but Batista kicking out shocked me.

-Punk kicking out of the second AA at NOC is up there with WM27. Now I realize CM Punk kicked out of two AA's at MITB 2011, but he was a quasi-face at that point and being in his hometown, you could somewhat expect that. NOC though... it was unreal for him to kick out of two AA's imo. He was a full-blown heel and full-blown heels don't kick out twice of their opponent's finisher. Add to that it was so late in the match and you felt it could end at any moment, not to mention much like WM27, the wrestler I marked for had something that had been going on for a long time on the line against a guy who I wasn't particularly a fan of. So there was some emotional investment there and Cena popping up, hitting the second AA, and going right on Punk for the cover I knew it was over. Punk kicking out of that was unreal to me and it still is watching it back. 

Then they go and have him get pinned by not even by an AA, but a stupid back suplex pin off the top rope, where he only just got lucky he was on top of Cena. I suppose they had to find some way to get them both pinned, but it would've been nice if it at least looked like Punk somehow maneuvered his way onto Cena. Or if Cena hit the move closer to the ropes, Punk grabs the rope with his hand, the ref counts the 3, Cena thinks he won and everyone thinks the ref somehow didn't see the hand on the rope, and Cena celebrates as he did. The announcer then states "The winner of this match... and still WWE Champion, CM PUNK!" To a lot of confusion and heat, and it doesn't really get explained until Raw, which would've been an amazing hook to find out how Cena was pinned (not necessarily how Punk wasn't). They basically do the same promo they did on Raw with Heyman, Punk, and the referee.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I'd have so much adrenaline if I went to a Wrestlemania live. I felt sick just watching HHH/Taker this year on the TV, I would would flip the fuck out there live :lol.


----------



## Mr. Perfect (May 18, 2005)

Starbuck said:


> Every fan needs to go to at least one. It's just incredible. WWE may fuck with your brain 364 days of the year lol but on that one night it's all worth it, to sit there, to feel it and to get carried away by it all. There's nothing like Wrestlemania live.


I had a chance to go to Wrestlemania 23 since it was in my home state. I regret not trying to get tickets though. I'm actually going to my first live wrestling event next month. It's not WWE, but it's a start. The problem I had was all my friends except for a few stopped watching wrestling after the attitude era was over. So, I never had anyone to go with.

Now some people say that attending a house show is more entertaining than a televised one. Is that true?


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Well I've never been, but from what I have read the matches are longer and obviously there is more fan interaction. I can imagine them having a fun atmosphere.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Warrior kicking out of 3983234985 Savage Elbow Drops would've been more shocking had Warrior not been no selling everyone's finishers.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Trying to go to WM 30 regardless of where it is. Gonna do a package, hopefully. Going to hopefully be making good money this Summer as a security guard.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HBK kicking out at WM25 is it for me, hands down. It was completely unexpected and before the Tombstone was being kicked out of multiple times at WrestleManias. HHH at WM27 was huge too and had more of that "are they going to do this" reaction from me and a lot of exhilaration when Taker kicked out. My jaw was literally on the floor when HBK kicked out at WM25. Undertaker sold the kick out better than HHH at WM27 too. The WM26 and WM28 kick-outs were more like "these guys are doing it again" aka having another classic, work of art feeling.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Let's split that Platinum Package for like 20k, Brye.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Starbuck, you're from the United Kingdom too, right? How much is it to go to Wrestlemania. I've been a wrestling fan ever since I can remember for twenty plus years now and never once been to a Mania, been to PPV's and Raw's etc. but never to a Wrestlemania and would definitely love to go to one, how would I go about doing it etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs HHH from WrestleMania 27 is solid/moderately good at best. Guess I seem to be the only guy who knew Taker was gonna kick out of the tombstone.

28 on the other hand...now that match was incredible. Sweet Chin Music into the Pedigree was HOLY SHIT NO for me. That's one amazing near fall.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Even the security guards were marking out :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wonder how much money he spent to sit there and watch it on a TV.


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I wonder how much money he spent to sit there and watch it on a TV.


What a terrible view with that fake palm tree in the way. :cuss:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cookie Monster said:


> Starbuck, you're from the United Kingdom too, right? How much is it to go to Wrestlemania. I've been a wrestling fan ever since I can remember for twenty plus years now and never once been to a Mania, been to PPV's and Raw's etc. but never to a Wrestlemania and would definitely love to go to one, how would I go about doing it etc.


Yeah. It's not cheap, that much I can tell you lol. It really depends on what way you go about it but either way, if you go for around 5 days, including flights/hotel, Mania tix, HOF tix, Raw tix, spending money and if you want to do it comfortably you're probably talking around the 2k mark I'd imagine. Obviously, you can do it cheaper than that and staying in NYC, the accommodation is going to be the killer so the price will go up or down depending on where you stay. For convenience sakes, going the package route is very hassle free. It's done all in one go and all you have to do is sort out your flight and any extra hotel nights if you want them. But the prices are going up for those every year and it's actually getting a bit ridiculous if you ask me. For Mania 25 I did it all separately. For 26 went Platinum Package and for 27/28 went Silver. This year I don't have any tickets yet and don't even know if I can make the trip. I'm still thinking about. Trying to magic money out of thin air isn't easy, haha. 



The Lady Killer said:


> Even the security guards were marking out :lmao


:lmao I'd be embarrassed to post my videos anywhere tbh. I was like a fucking kid, jumping out of my seat and screaming like a maniac. I was for all 4 of the past streak matches. They are absolute classics but will always be that little bit extra special for me because I was there for them live and got to feel them as well as watch them. On the same token, the finishing stretch to Rock/Cena was nuts in terms of atmosphere too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Let's split that Platinum Package for like 20k, Brye.


For the platinum package we'd better be able to book a month of Raw too. :lmao


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Yeah. It's not cheap, that much I can tell you lol. It really depends on what way you go about it but either way, if you go for around 5 days, including flights/hotel, Mania tix, HOF tix, Raw tix, spending money and if you want to do it comfortably you're probably talking around the 2k mark I'd imagine. Obviously, you can do it cheaper than that and staying in NYC, the accommodation is going to be the killer so the price will go up or down depending on where you stay. For convenience sakes, going the package route is very hassle free. It's done all in one go and all you have to do is sort out your flight and any extra hotel nights if you want them. But the prices are going up for those every year and it's actually getting a bit ridiculous if you ask me. For Mania 25 I did it all separately. For 26 went Platinum Package and for 27/28 went Silver. This year I don't have any tickets yet and don't even know if I can make the trip. I'm still thinking about. Trying to magic money out of thin air isn't easy, haha.


Yeah, I didn't think it would be cheap. I'd love to go to the Hall of Fame as well as Raw after Mania, I wouldn't mind not going to those though and only going to Mania, I'd just feel I'd have to go to the others due to the fact that you're in the area, it's on so why not!

I don't think I'll look to go to Wrestlemania 29, but I think I will definitely look into it for Wrestlemania 30. With it being the 30th edition of Mania, you can bet your bottom dollar that something big is going to happen or some special moment is going to be created, whether that is Austin wrestling, The Undertakers last ever match in the squared circle etc.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I think going to the Raw after is a must as well , especially with them getting the reputation of being one of the best atmospheres of the year with all DEM SMARKS.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The crowd was fucking hot after Wrestlemania this year, it's what made the show one of the best of the year, if not THE best.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Starbuck, did I just see you on The Chase? 

Some guy talking about WrestleMania and how he's going to spend his money. That's a good way to get money, starbuck.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Any thoughts on Survivior Series 2009?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RevolverSnake said:


> Any thoughts on Survivior Series 2009?


The two (male) 5 on 5 matches are good, and I recall one being borderline great, but I honestly forget which, and both include some top notch talent so its hard to even guess without going back and watching them .

Batista/Mysterio isn't anything special. Short, and Mysterio gets murdered I think.

Show/Jericho/Undertaker is a fun triple threat. Better than I was expecting given Undertaker's condition at the time. 

Don't remember a damn thing about the diva tag.

HBK/HHH/Cena match is awesome. KICKS OFF in spectacular fashion too. One of the better triple threats ever.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

RevolverSnake said:


> Any thoughts on Survivior Series 2009?


Watched this recently and it's a decent show, the opener is solid, the Raw Elimanation is even better, Taker v Jericho v Shown is watchable and the main event is a very good match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/HBK/HHH is a fantastic triple threat match, nearly on par with Cena/Edge/HHH but fuck me the crowd is pretty much dead for the whole match, which is a crying shame.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How about Survivor Series 2010?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> How about Survivor Series 2010?


Bryan/DiBiase - Good
Morrison/Sheamus - Good
Ziggler/Kaval - Trainwreck
SS Tag - Don't remember
Divas - Don't remember
Kane/Edge - Urgh
Tag titles - Urgh
Orton/Barrett - Urgh


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay, thank you guys. Will check it out tomorrow.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

If you have the time catch Survivor Series 2007 too. That was a strong card (minus the Khali/Hornswoggle stuff) with two near classic World Title matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Bryan/DiBiase - Good
> Morrison/Sheamus - Good
> Ziggler/Kaval - Trainwreck
> SS Tag - Don't remember
> ...


Cheers, just trying to get a couple of PPV's from 09-10, was unsure about this one, Match Listing didn't impress me much tbh.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Clique said:


> If you have the time catch Survivor Series 2007 too. That was a strong card (minus the Khali/Hornswoggle stuff) with two near classic World Title matches.


Yes, maybe, but I wanted to see something I've never seen before. unk


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

So... I've heard Punk/McMahon was a damn good TV match. Should I trust the hype and go watch it?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HBK/Orton from SS is a match I always forget about but really enjoy. Might pop it in in a few.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> So... I've heard Punk/McMahon was a damn good TV match. Should I trust the hype and go watch it?


As intense as any match you'd of seen on Raw the past few years, the crowd was hot, Vince was looking good for a man of his age, Punk's heel character continues to rocket as well as the emergence of Ryback, love how JR builds him up when he comes to the ring, enjoy!


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> So... I've heard Punk/McMahon was a damn good TV match. Should I trust the hype and go watch it?


I thought it was the shit. Hot crowd, memorable spots and just pure awesomeness. Vince's control segments were all believable too. One of the better No Holds Barred matches WWE have done in a while.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah that match was a hell of a lot of fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Champ is Here! Counting down the Top 25 Matches of John Cena's Career*


So, while I've been posting list after list, I've managed to get a hefty amount of Wrestling watched over the past few months or so. The whole "WWE Championship" and "World Heavyweight Championship" lists were extremely fun, so I decided to kinda make it my thing, because well....I just really fucking love lists for some reason 

This is going to be my first Superstar feature, and these lists will indeed feature both PPV AND TV bouts over the Superstar's career. Who am I going to start this off with ? None other than the current face of the WWE and one of the most polarizing figures in wrestling history ; John Cena. Yeah I know "Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks" has certainly become a staple at practically every live event nowadays, but I'm going to take personal preference aside and just look at the quality of Cena's matches and not his gimmick/character in itself. I believe that Cena is one of the true "great" workers of our time, and his match catalogue is up there with some of the all time greats. Let's get this thing started..


25.









"Will Mysterio's dream become a nightmare?"

vs Rey Mysterio (Raw 2011) : **** 3/4*


24.









"HBK just superkicked Cena on top of Orton!"

vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels (Backlash 2007) : ******


23.









"HBK and Angle are cancelling each other out"

vs Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Taboo Tuesday 2005) : ******


22.









"Triple H unloads...PEDIGREE!"

vs Triple H (Raw 2009) : ******


21.









"Cena has the odds stacked against him once again"

Team WWE vs Team Nexus (Summerslam 2010) : ******


20.









"Cena has all the reason to be paranoid"

vs Shawn Michaels (Raw 2009) : ******


19.









"Triple H, tonight I'm gonna do it AGAIN"

vs Triple H (Night of Champions 2008) : ******


18.









"Kevin Nash just screwed CM Punk"

vs CM Punk (Raw 2011) : ******


17.









"Cena, I WILL Pin you!"

vs Randy Orton (No Way Out 2008) : ******


16.









"Can Cena and Michaels co-exist?"

w/Shawn Michaels vs Batista & The Undertaker (No Way Out 2007) : ******

15.









"Michaels just kicked the game's head off!"

vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H (Survivor Series 2009) : ******


14.









"What is it going to take to keep these men down?"

vs Edge (Last Man Standing ; Backlash 2009) : ******


13.









"Why wasn't I the face of the WWE?"

vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXVI) : ******


12.









"It's all on the line! Can the game hold on?"

vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII) : ******


11.









"That isn't fair to Batista!"

vs Batista (Last Man Standing ; Extreme Rules 2010) : ******


10.









"Behold the King...The King of Kings"

vs Edge vs Triple H (Backlash 2006) : ******


9.









"They've been going for nearly a damn hour now!"

vs Shawn Michaels (Raw 2007) : ***** 1/4*


8.









"The Showstopper's going for a ride!"

vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII) : ***** 1/4*


7.









"JBL, you're going to SQUEAL the words I QUIT!"

vs JBL (I Quit ; Judgment Day 2005) : ***** 1/4*


6.









"BYGAWD CENA HAS DONE IT AGAIN!"

vs Edge (TLC ; Unforgiven 2006) : ***** 1/4*


5.








"Respect."

vs CM Punk (Night of Champions 2012) : ***** 1/4*


4.









"Umaga's Frothing from the mouth!"

vs Umaga (Last Man Standing ; Royal Rumble 2007) : ***** 1/2*


3.









"There can only be one WWE Champion"

vs CM Punk (Summerslam 2011) : ***** 1/2*


2.









"Have we ever seen Cena manhandled like this?"

vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules ; Extreme Rules 2012) : ***** 3/4*


1.









"Cena says NOT THIS WAY"

vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank 2011) : *******


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree with the top 2, but can't fathom the Mysterio match being on the bottom of that list. Shit that's a contender for Cena's top 5, alongside the Umaga match and then competing against the 2 HBK matches from 2007. Orton NWO 2008 match is golden, but their Summerslam 2007 match should really be on there imo ahead of both Edge matches as well as a few more on that list, namely the Backlash 4 way (good, but not better than Cena/Orton), the HBK Raw 09 match as well as as the Survivor Series 09 triple threat. Nice to see the HHH NOC 2008 match made it, always preferred it to Wrestlemania 22 aside from the Chicago crowd. Also good to see the RVD ONS match didn't make it, aside from Cena being ridiculously good in it and the ECW crowd making for a special atmosphere I've never really thought of it as one of his best matches and always get a little curious why so many list it as one of his best, memorable perhaps but certaintly not in terms of output, that being said RVD sucks pretty bad so I'm not surprised I don't really like the match all that much.

Don't really think the Batista matches should be there, much prefer the Lashley GAB 2007 match in terms of Cena working a modern day Babyface vs Babyface super main event, its also one of Cena's better career carryjobs. Both HBK matches would be ahead of the Edge TLC and the JBL I Quit match, would probably have them ahead of both Punk matches (Summerslam and NOC) as well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Really like that list KOK. Only things I'd change would be putting Trips/Cena from NOC and Raw above the WM one and removing the Cena/Batista match. A few star ratings differ a 1/4-1/2* but awesome list.

I have the Backlash 4-way at ****1/2. Watched the other day. Did not disappoint.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Meh, might as well post my top 10 for Cena:

1. Punk MITB 2011
2. Lesnar ER 2012
3. HBK Wrestlemania 23
4. Mysterio Raw 2011
5. Umaga Rumble 07
6. HBK Raw in London 07
7. Orton Summerslam 07
8. Punk Summerslam 2011
9. Orton NWO 2008
10.HHH NOC 2008


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 25 Cena matches (for me):

(****1/2)
1) vs. CM Punk MITB 2011
2) vs. Umaga RR 2007
3) vs. HBK Raw 2007
(****1/4)
4) vs. Edge BL 2009
5) vs. Punk SS 2011
6) vs. Edge vs. Mysterio vs. Jericho vs. Mike Knox vs. Kane WHC EC 2009
7) vs. Edge vs. HBK vs. Orton BL 2007
8) vs. JBL JD 2005
(****)
9) vs. Undertaker Smackdown 6/24/2004 (Re-watched this match yesterday, and though I have it at the same rating I did before, I hold it in much higher regard. Love it especially for Taker playing the quasi-heel role in the match)
10) vs. Edge Unforgiven 2006
11) vs. Orton SS 2007
12) vs. HBK WM23
13) vs. Undertaker Vengeance 2003
14) vs. HBK vs. HHH SVS 2009
15) vs. CM Punk NOC 2012
16) vs. Edge vs. HHH BL 2006
17) vs. Batista SS 2008
18) w/ HBK vs. Undertaker and Batista NWO 2007
19) vs. HHH NOC 2008
20) vs. CM Punk Raw 8/22/2011
21) vs. HHH Raw 2009 (4th match between the two)
(***3/4)
22) vs. HBK Raw 2009 (one where HBK wins)
23) vs. Lesnar ER 2012
24) vs. Mysterio Raw 2011
25) vs. Lashley GAB 2007


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nice list there although mine would be very different. I think I'll be working on a top 50 for Cena since I'm rather familiar with most of his career (need to get up-to-date with 2008-2009, though). And when I finish 2000-2002 and 2005-2007, I will do a top 50 on Chris Benoit but that is going to take quite a while.

Just finished watching Eddie/Angle 2 out of 3 falls match. Pretty good and at ***1/2.

EDIT: I'll do a quick top 10 for Cena now:

1. vs Edge (Unforgiven 06)
2. vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank 11)
3. vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules 12)
4. vs JBL (Judgment Day 05)
5. vs Umaga (Royal Rumble 07)
6. vs Shawn Michaels (Raw 07)
7. vs Randy Orton (No Way Out 08)
8. vs HHH (Wrestlemania 22)
9. vs Batista (SummerSlam 08)
10. vs Chris Jericho (SummerSlam 05)

I just took singles matches here.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I prefer the Summerslam Batista match to the Mania one. Was really disappointed in the Mania one.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Top 10 for Cena:

1. vs Umaga - RR '07
2. vs Punk - MITB '11
3. vs Edge vs Orton vs HBK - BL '07
4. vs Edge - UF '06
5. vs Shawn Michaels - WM XXIII
6. vs Edge - BL '09
7. vs Edge vs HHH - BL '06
8. vs HHH - NOC '08
9. vs CM Punk - Summerslam '11
10. vs JBL - JD '05


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Forgetting the match vs Lesnar?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, FUCK. Would have that above Cena/Edge/HHH. Would probbly throw Cena/Orton from NWO above Cena/JBL too that's kinda close.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Imo that Punk/Cena match from Raw 2011 sucked. It only went on for like 5 minutes till Nash came out.

I'd replace it with Barrett/Cena HIAC 2010, surprised many people left that off. I thought it was a pretty good match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Only seen Cena/Barrett from HIAC once. I enjoyed it but it didn't overly wow me or anything. Probably ***1/2 range.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Meh, matches with Barrett are nothing special. Although I need to give them another chance before making a better judgment.

And is it me or are Cena's 2005 matches highly underrated? I Quit with JBL is shown some love but the rest are usually forgotten, specially vs Jericho at SummerSlam which I think was an excellent match. Great back-and-forth action and the crowd is on fire. Can't believe how loud they were during the "Let's go Cena"/"Let's go Jericho" dual chants. And for a long time I thought that took place in L.A. until a WWE list brought up Batista's hometown victory against JBL, which reminded me that it actually took place in Washington DC.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Meh, matches with Barrett are nothing special. Although I need to give them another chance before making a better judgment.
> 
> And is it me or are Cena's 2005 matches highly underrated? I Quit with JBL is shown some love but the rest are usually forgotten, specially vs Jericho at SummerSlam which I think was an excellent match. Great back-and-forth action and the crowd is on fire. Can't believe how loud they were during the "Let's go Cena"/"Let's go Jericho" dual chants. And for a long time I thought that took place in L.A. until a WWE list brought up Batista's hometown victory against JBL, which reminded me that it actually took place in Washington DC.


I like the Cena/HBK/Angle triple threat from '05. I honestly don't remember much from Cena/Jericho. And I think there was a Shelton/Cena match from late '05 that was solid but I might be thinking of something else.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I like the Cena/HBK/Angle triple threat from '05. I honestly don't remember much from Cena/Jericho. And I think there was a Shelton/Cena match from late '05 that was solid but I might be thinking of something else.


You talking about the Beat the Clock match that took place on the very last 05 Raw? Yeah, that was a good match just a bit short.

And from Cena's 05 matches, the Vengeance triple threat was great too and I also enjoyed the Unforgiven match with Angle but not so much the SVS rematch. Their First Blood match in early 06 is also underrated. Best match is still No Mercy 03.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> You talking about the Beat the Clock match that took place on the very last 05 Raw? Yeah, that was a good match just a bit short.
> 
> And from Cena's 05 matches, the Vengeance triple threat was great too and I also enjoyed the Unforgiven match with Angle but not so much the SVS rematch. Their First Blood match in early 06 is also underrated. Best match is still No Mercy 03.


Yep, that's the one! Wish those two had a longer match as they were both on fire at the time.

I wasn't really digging Angle much during the Cena/Angle feud in '05 but I didn't mind the Unforgiven match. Survivor Series one was just really overbooked if I recall.

Watched that triple threat with Jericho/Christian the other day and it's good stuff.

Looking at his stuff, Cena has had quite a few good triple threats.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

#Mark said:


> Imo that Punk/Cena match from Raw 2011 sucked. It only went on for like 5 minutes till Nash came out.
> 
> I'd replace it with Barrett/Cena HIAC 2010, surprised many people left that off. I thought it was a pretty good match.


Wow, can't believe I forgot Barrett/Cena HIAC. Excellent match. I have it on the low-end of **** matches, but it still should be on my list.

As far as Cena in 2005 though, tough to remember much. His NWO match with Angle I remember being disappointing. WM match with JBL was awful. JD though was awesome and a borderline classic. Triple Threat at Vengeance was a great little match. Summerslam against Jericho was very good but nothing spectacular imo. Match against Angle at Unforgiven I barely remember at all and the SVS match was very disappointing.

Cena's 2005 wasn't so great, but it wasn't terrible.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Just found the deal of a lifetime. Got the entire Summerslam anthology for $7.98 on amazon. Still am in shock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YES. I agree w/who said Cena/Angle from No Mercy 03 was their best match together. None of their other ones touch it. 

I'll give big props to Cena/Barrett from HIAC too. Thought they really hit their mark in that one. Barrett was so over as a mega heel there. ***3/4 - a possible close ****. Great program imo.


----------



## Shawn Morrison (Jan 14, 2011)

watching the Cm Punk DVD. Wow, makes me like him even more.


----------



## koiviston55 (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm going to rewatch Taker/Michaels WM26 and see how I like it. Might rewatch WM25 match too and compare. I still say I'll prefer WM25. I know the topic in here is shifting away from this already but idgaf lol


----------



## apokalypse (Mar 13, 2005)

Punk DVD is very good..give great insight what's wrong with WWE. Punk DVD is must watch Documentary.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

You guys are making me want to watch the Punk DVD for a third time


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Being a big Taker mark for many years now, has anyone ever thought of a 'Undertaker Lost Matches', or maybe 'Lost Classics', like matches some people may have forgotten about, or is he obviously so high-profile such a term can't exist.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty much just his stuff in Japan and house show matches that aren't as widely available as everything else he's done lol. Pretty sure all his Memphis, USWA and WCW stuff is available, his first EVER match is available... though I do often wonder what happened between his first match in WCCW and his debut in Memphis lol. Some of his SMW stuff isn't as easy to see though, half the time I find any match of his from there that I'd like to see, it ends up being clipped lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of Taker's forgotten or unknown to many matches, Cal, I remember you writing a review on a Taker/Mr. Kennedy match from Germany (I think) you said was great. I never got to see it but I always thought Undertaker made Kennedy look legit in their 2006 feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Speaking of Taker's forgotten or unknown to many matches, Cal, I remember you writing a review on a Taker/Mr. Kennedy match from Germany (I think) you said was great. I never got to see it but I always thought Undertaker made Kennedy look legit in their 2006 feud.


Yeah, match is fantastic, and imo better than any of their PPV/TV bouts together, and I rate those highly as well. I had the match uploaded for a while, but with MU dying that time it got lost .


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Watched Summerslam 2005 not long ago, I thought Jericho/Cena was fantastic. My favourite match from Cena in 2005 by far. When the crowd really gets going with the "Lets Go Cena/Cena Sucks" chants it gets ridiculously loud. ****** from me.


----------



## Manelpirolito (Nov 5, 2006)

summerslam 2005 had one of the best cards eve


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Was there live! Here in D.C, epic card but a lot of underwhelming matches (Batista/JBL, Benoit/Jordan) and some duds too like Angle/Eugene. Still, Eddie/Rey, Edge/Hardy, Orton/Taker and Cena/Jericho were all excellent matches. I actually thought HBK/Hogan was good stuff too, it wasn't till I got home and went online did I hear all the talk of overselling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 2005 is an excellent PPV. Eddie/Mysterio, Cena/Jericho, Orton/Taker, Edge/Matt are all good as is HBK/Hogan. I need to rewatch Batista/JBL and don't remember much about Angle/Eugene. But I found Benoit/Jordan pretty hilarious with the record setting time. Still, Benoit should have had a much better SummerSlam send off since it was his last one ever!


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

KingCal said:


> The two (male) 5 on 5 matches are good, and I recall one being borderline great, but I honestly forget which, and both include some top notch talent so its hard to even guess without going back and watching them .


For me, the better was definitely Team Kofi vs Team Orton. Kofi pinning Punk & Orton in about 8 seconds was remarkable. Can't believe at one point in that match I actually thought Christian was going to pin Orton.

The first 5v5 was a bit of a squash but it demonstrated 'the future' with Sheamus, Drew & Miz surviving. Pretty amazing to think 4 of Miz's team have been world champions, while 4 of Morrison's team have now left the company and the last man standing (Bourne) doesn't exactly have a safe position. :lol




zep81 said:


> How about Survivor Series 2010?


First half is great, up to and including the divas match. Then the second half with the world title matches is so, so bad.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I can't even remember any of Benoit/Jordan tbh. I just remember being disappointed by it, I remember then I was actually enjoying Jordan's work.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Urgh, fucking hated Orlando Jordan lol. I remember a horrible, horrible time on SD around 04 when the midcard was filled with OJ, Cena, Rene Dupree, Booker T, Kenzo Suzuki, RVD and a couple of others and fuuuuck, it was so bad. Not a single good wrestler in the bunch, and they were all so DULL. Even Cena, who was babyface and doing less and less of the rap stuff (which I'm not that high on anyway even back in his heel days).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I did my top 5 favorite Cena matches not too long ago and posted them here. I think I'll def do his top 10-25 when I get some time to sit and think about it lol. Great list KOK. Keep them coming.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked Rene Dupree. :$


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> I liked Rene Dupree. :$


You're a terrible person :side:.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i agree. renee dupree and orlando jordan both suck

big time


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I remember days when fans demanded that Hunter put over Rene Dupree in style.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Rob Conway was the best out of la resistance, his just look at me music was epis, I had it as a ringtone back in his main eventing of heat days


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Razor King said:


> I remember days when fans demanded that Hunter put over Rene Dupree in style.


I remember the days when fans demanded that Hunter put over everybody he ever faced. Actually hold up, that still happens lol. DAT TRUPLE HH DIDNT PUT OVA KANE IN 2002 DA FUKIN BASTARD BERRIES EVERBADY DURR


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I did take a hiatus from the WWE at one stage, I'm guessing it was round about that stage. I do remember the names you lot have said, the Jordans, the Dupree's but nothing springs to mind of them


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> I remember the days when fans demanded that Hunter put over everybody he ever faced. Actually hold up, that still happens lol. DAT TRUPLE HH DIDNT PUT OVA KANE IN 2002 DA FUKIN BASTARD BERRIES EVERBADY DURR


I think those days still breathe. Just watch Hunter go over somebody, the eruption won't be far away. 

It's funny to remember how Hunter "berried" Steiner, Nash, and Goldberg.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Urgh, fucking hated Orlando Jordan lol. I remember a horrible, horrible time on SD around 04 when the midcard was filled with OJ, Cena, Rene Dupree, Booker T, Kenzo Suzuki, RVD and a couple of others and fuuuuck, it was so bad. Not a single good wrestler in the bunch, and they were all so DULL. Even Cena, who was babyface and doing less and less of the rap stuff (which I'm not that high on anyway even back in his heel days).


I'm actually going through that period right now and it's pretty boring. Can't wait until Cena moves up the card and the 2005 draft when some new life is breathed into the show. I don't think Booker, Cena or RVD are terrible (not Dupree either) but the whole thing is just so uninteresting and Cena is starting to get boring which sucks because he was one of the most entertaining things on SD 2003 when there was Lesnar around and Guerrero/Benoit dominated the midcard as well as the American Bad-Ass.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Razor King said:


> I think those days still breathe. Just watch Hunter go over somebody, the eruption won't be far away.
> 
> It's funny to remember how Hunter "berried" Steiner, Nash, and Goldberg.


Dude, when Triple H wins a match, he doesn't win a match, he buries his opponents. You should know that by now. HHH doesn't win, he buries. IWC rule #1. When HHH loses a match, he only lost so that smarks would think he wasn't an asshole. IWC rule #2. Exhibit A - HHH vs. Brock Lesnar.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> Dude, when Triple H wins a match, he doesn't win a match, he buries his opponents. You should know that by now. HHH doesn't win, he buries. IWC rule #1. When HHH loses a match, he only lost so that smarks would think he wasn't an asshole. IWC rule #2. Exhibit A - HHH vs. Brock Lesnar.


Another rule: When Triple H has a good match, it's down to his opponent. When Triple H has a bad match, it's because he sucks.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

man, triple H must be really insecure to care what we think so much


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Triple H tapped out to Benoit because he had to; he had no other option. Triple H beat van Dam because he is an egomaniac who would kill people just to be at the top. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Dude, when Triple H wins a match, he doesn't win a match, he buries his opponents. You should know that by now. HHH doesn't win, he buries.* IWC rule #1. When HHH loses a match, he only lost so that smarks would think he wasn't an asshole. IWC rule #2.* Exhibit A - HHH vs. Brock Lesnar.


Or he's going to have a rematch and win that one. The only time HHH was "burying" people actively was in 2003 and to be honest, I think he did everyone a favor when "burying" trash like Kevin Nash. Only one I didn't agree on was Booker T, but otherwise, he got to work with shit the entire year.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Razor King said:


> Another rule: When Triple H has a good match, it's down to his opponent. When Triple H has a bad match, it's because he sucks.


When HHH cuts a promo, he buries whoever he's talking to/about. The only thing Hunter jobs to is his nose.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

People are like that with Cena. Good match = Cena got carried. Bad match = Cena sucks. Plus people are starting to jump on the whole "Cena burriz people" shit too cos he wins a lot.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> When HHH cuts a promo, he buries whoever he's talking to/about. The only thing Hunter jobs to is his nose.


The IWC bitched and moaned about Hunter's 30-minute long promos in 2003; yet tuned in every Monday!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Do you believe Cal that Cena buried Lesnar by winning?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Triple H and Cena have no talent, bury people and flat out suck. When they have a good match, they were carried. When they have a bad match, it's all their fault. When they cut promos, they bury people. When they win a match, they bury people. When they lose a match, they still bury people and only did it to appease smarks. They are both assholes who shouldn't have the spot they have. DIE HUNTER AND CENA!! DIE DIE DIE!! 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Redead said:


> Do you believe Cal that Cena buried Lesnar by winning?


Totally. Lesnar's career is dead in the water now. He couldn't even go back to MMA. Its OVER.

Thank god that lovely man HHH let Lesnar beat him afterwards, but it was too late. RIP Bork Laser .


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

DAT Triple H feeding his ego by having Flair call him the greatest wrestler alive in the business.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^^ No harm in telling the truth. Peeps just can't accept it. 

Triple H wanted to show Cena up to the smarks so he let Cena go over and then did the job to make him look bad.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

guys, what would happen if cena wrestled triple H

my gawd, the universe itself would be berried


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena's superman powers vs. Hunter's burying powers. ZOMG WHO WUD WIN DAT MATCH!!!!!!!! Special Ref is Vince. Winner gets Steph and to be the official son-in-law.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Nah... IWC logic says Stephanie is inhumane and a devil because she berried the late-great Test and married Hunter.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not very familiar with smarks from 2003 (although from the few forum archives I've read, they make it sound like HHH is destined to hog the Raw spotlight and bury everyone for life) but I really, really doubt HHH hate is anywhere near as bad as Cena-hate. At least Hunter gets hated for "burying" people and his talent doesn't come into question that often, Cena has idiots saying that he can't wrestle and that he only knows 5 moves. And as bad as them, that he's the face of PG and "he wud piss hiz pantz in da attitood era" as if he has not paid his dues and his career started in 2009.

No wonder the "IWC" is not taken seriously.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I've heard good things, mainly from this thread but is the Rise and Fall of ECW worth the watch, yeah?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm not very familiar with smarks from 2003 (although from the few forum archives I've read, they make it sound like HHH is destined to hog the Raw spotlight and bury everyone for life) but I really, really doubt HHH hate is anywhere near as bad as Cena-hate. At least Hunter gets hated for "burying" people and his talent doesn't come into question that often, Cena has idiots saying that he can't wrestle and that he only knows 5 moves. And as bad as them, that he's the face of PG and "he wud piss hiz pantz in da attitood era" as if he has not paid his dues and his career started in 2009.
> 
> No wonder the "IWC" is not taken seriously.


You're kidding right? Triple H would be a midcarder if he wasn't married to Stephanie. He also only married her for the money, knocked her up for the power and is a general backstabbing, egomaniacal asshole. He has the power to control Vince's mind and convince him to do whatever he wants. DAT GAME.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

hitler > john cena

ATLEAST HITLER WAS PG13


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Redead said:


> hitler > john cena
> 
> ATLEAST HITLER WAS PG13


I can SWEAR that I once came across a comment that said something like this (minus the PG13 part) on youtube a while back. It went along the lines of "i hate cena so much hes worse than hitler". :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There was a comment on the TV programme 'QI' (great UK panel show)where they said a study showed that any online 'discussion' that gets to the point where Hitler/Nazi's are mentioned, that thread is then squashed lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So guys, what's your ideal Wrestlemania main event scenario for 29 (Realistically speaking of course) ? I was thinking mine would go a little something like this :

WWE Championship (Streak vs Title) : CM Punk vs The Undertaker
WHC : Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler
The Rock vs John Cena II
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar II

Although I wouldn't mind seeing :

Rock-Cena (Title)
Lesnar-Taker (Streak)
Punk-HHH (OMFG MARKOUT)
Sheamus-Bryan-Kane (Title) 

It looks like it's going to be a Taker vs Punk or Lesnar scenario for next year, meaning that there's a very high chance that Mark Calaway wrestles another MOTY contender.


----------



## GameofRings (Sep 19, 2012)

Finally finished the Punk DVD. The documentary is just as good as it has been hyped up to be. I wish ROH would have given WWE some matches for the DVD, but I can't blame them, since they want to sell their own DVD's. 

GoR CM Punk: Best in the World DVD Review (w/every match review)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My ideal WM29 card would be:

The Rock vs John Cena for the WWE Championship (with Cena turning heel to win)
Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar
Sheamus vs Randy Orton
Rey Mysterio vs Sin Cara

It's likely going to happen. Alternatively, I would love: (never gonna happen)

Lesnar vs Austin
Rock vs Orton
Cena vs Taker
HHH vs Sheamus
Rey vs Sin Cara


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My ideal WM match card would be what K1ngofK1ng's second card was. However, here's one where the two title matches are a bit different:

Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar
Rock vs. Cena II
CM Punk vs. Ryback (WWE Title)
Sheamus vs. Orton (WHC)

I would prefer the second K1ngofK1ng's card, but the one in this post works as well.

Also if Taker/Punk does happen:

Undertaker vs. Punk (Streak vs. Title)
Brock Lesnar vs. The Rock (Lesnar costs Rock the title at the RR)
Ryback vs. John Cena WHC (Cena wins the WHC at EC and Ryback wins the Rumble. Ryback goes after Cena for some reason I'm too lazy to think up of right now)
Sheamus vs. Orton (Grudge match)

And no matter what card happens, Mysterio vs. Cara as well is on it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd certainly like to see either Rock/Taker or Rock/Brock tbh.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Cookie Monster said:


> I've heard good things, mainly from this thread but is the Rise and Fall of ECW worth the watch, yeah?


Yes, very indepth.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Anyone know what happened to that Kickstarter ECW doc?


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

What I THINK will happen is

Cena/Rock II- WWE Title
Ziggler/Ryback- WHC
Punk/Taker
Lesnar/HHH- Retirement Match

I'm still not sold on Ryback because he is a HUGE ripoff of Goldberg, but they'll probably do it anyway.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

#Mark said:


> Anyone know what happened to that Kickstarter ECW doc?


They got the money to finish making it. I think it should be out sometime in December or January.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why would anyone want to see Mysterio vs Sin "enough" Botches? Anyways:

_WrestleMania 29 card_:

Cena vs Undertaker
Punk vs Austin
BROCK vs Rock

Throw in something for Danielson, Cesaro, & Dolph and I'll be happy.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

I really have no interest in Rock/Cena II. My ideal semi-realistic main event card would be:

Punk v Rock v Cena (WWE title)
Taker v Lesnar
Ziggler v Ryback (WHC)
Bryan v Jericho

If Lesnar isn't going to re-sign for another run, I wouldn't mind seeing:

Punk v Rock
Cena v Taker
Lesnar v Ryback
Ziggler v Bryan v Jericho


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Unforgiven 2004:*

William Regal/Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair/Batista - **1/4
- Wow, this is pathetic. Benoit went from main eventing SummerSlam as the World Champion to opening the next PPV in the most meaningless match you can think of. As a match, it's nothing special and belongs to the middle of a Raw show at best.

Trish Stratus vs Victoria - **1/2
- Decent effort by both, nothing to remember much from, though.

Tyson Tomko vs Steven Richards - 1/2*
- This goes on for _way_ too long. Should've been one minute at best but goes on for over 5 minutes. Also, how much of a jobber must Steven Richards be to be put in the position he was here? First he came out to Victoria's music as her "bitch" and now he's hiding in some stupid female dress, lol.

Chris Jericho vs Christian (Ladder Match) - ***1/4
- A good match by these two and a good comeback for Christian after his back injury. Crowd is too dead, though, and it gets a bit slow by the end when both men spend too much time laying on the mat instead of doing anything. 23 minutes might have been too long, so that might explain it. Still, an enjoyable ladder match and Jericho wins his seventh IC title. And lastly, I can't forget the crazy bumps these guys take, Jericho getting the ladder pulled from under him comes to mind specially.

Shawn Michaels vs Kane - **1/4
- Boring as it gets. Crowd is super dead and the match just feels so underwhelming and uninteresting.

La Resistance vs Tajiri/Rhyno - **
- Yawn, generic tag team match. Couldn't care less for these because it is always the same formula and ending.

Randy Orton vs HHH - ***1/2
- I liked this one a lot. Crowd is mostly dead but they show a lot more life here than the entire PPV so far. The in-ring action is solid until the overbooking towards the end. A simple push into the referee puts him to sleep for about 10 minutes and then a load of shenanigans take place with Evolution and Jonathan Coachman entering the scene. HHH wins after Orton takes a hell of a beating with attacks from Batista, a lowblow, a chair shot and a Pedigree into the chair by HHH. This was a huge momentum killer for Orton, though. All this build-up from when he joined Evolution for absolutely nothing. I hear he had problems behind the scenes causing them to press the reset button but despite popular belief, it was NOT Orton's fault that his face run flopped from an on-screen perspective. They booked him well during the build-up and the crowd was popping for him every week yet after this one, he became irrelevant until the Undertaker feud saved his career and he was build once again up to the main event level and became a mainstay.

*Overall:* **1/4 out of ***** (You rarely hear anything about this PPV outside of the main event and it's probably for very good reason. Save for the ladder match and the main event, there is nothing to find here. The weakest Raw PPV from 2004 to me although Taboo Tuesday is still on the way. Oh, and I can't forget how terrible the crowd is on this one. By far the worst crowd I've come across in the entire years of 2003 and 2004 from all the shows I've watched.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tomko/Steven is one of those matches that I considered using negative snowflakes for. So bad. I remember a part when Tomko did the most awkward smothering attempt with the wig over Steven's face and JR/King were left puzzled at what he was trying to do.

AWFUL


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rewatched two classics today.

Cena/Punk MITB - ***** 
Honestly just as good as it was the first time, everything just clicked.

Trish/Mickie WM22 - ***1/2 -3/4
I really love this match, i miss Mickie & Trish so much


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Tomko/Steven is one of those matches that I considered using negative snowflakes for. So bad. I remember a part when Tomko did the most awkward smothering attempt with the wig over Steven's face and JR/King were left puzzled at what he was trying to do.
> 
> AWFUL


Shouldn't have even been a match. They could've just had Tomko bring out Richards and then beat him down and remove the wig and the rest of his clothes. Instead they turned it into a shitty squash that lasted 6 minutes too long.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I just watched "Rise and Fall of ECW" Absolutely brilliant, a lot of nostalgic moments and some moments that I hadn't seen neither, one of the best WWE Produced DVD's in my opinion, if not the best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Shouldn't have even been a match. They could've just had Tomko bring out Richards and then beat him down and remove the wig and the rest of his clothes. Instead they turned it into a shitty squash that lasted 6 minutes too long.


Shouldn't have been on the PPV to begin with.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Thoughts on the Big Show/Taker matches from 2008?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Really liked the NM and CS ones. I've heard very bad things about the SVS one and I know there's a cage match on SD but I've never seen it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Show NM- ***3/4
Taker/Show CS (LMS)- ****1/4
Taker/Show SVS- **

Taker/Show is such a fucking awesome and overlooked series of matches. Taker/Show NM surprised a lot of people when it happened and it ended up being a fantastic well-paced match between the two big men. Taker/Show CS takes everything great from the NM and adds to it and is a borderline classic. One of the best LMS of all time for that matter (I'd put it at number 3 behind Cena/Umaga and Jericho/HHH). Also it's Big Show's best match ever imo. Taker was legit the best in-ring worker in the company at that point in time imo, as his series with Edge also showed (and Batista the year prior). Taker and Show meshed so well in this feud, which is amazing considering they never really meshed well in the past. But with the 08 series in mind, Taker is imo Show's best opponent ever bar maybe Lesnar, whom while he never had a match quite as good with Show as the LMS between Taker and Show (the stretcher match is reasonably close), Lesnar/Show never had a bad match, where Taker and Show have quite a few stinkers in their careers against each other.

Speaking of stinkers, the 2008 series couldn't be perfect... and that's where the SVS match is. It's a brutal step down from the first two matches, and if you've never seen it, I'd suggest only watching the first two Taker/Show matches of the series and pretending the SVS match never happened. Though there was a cage match between them that I completely forgot/never seen I know someone in this thread has brought up a couple of times. I've gotta see it one of these days.

While you're at it, Taker/Show No Way Out 2003 is also worth checking out. ***1/4 I give that one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cleavage said:


> Thoughts on the Big Show/Taker matches from 2008?


Avoid the bad Casket match from Survivor Series and enjoy the 3 awesome matches. (No Mercy, Cyber Sunday, & Steel Cage on SmackDown)


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

I know I'm a little bit late to this... But where is the talk of Punk vs Taker at WM coming from? Seems incredibly left-field to me...


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Just something the rumor-mill churned out because Punk's doing a "respect" angle imo.


As for earlier discussion on Cena, they are not the best John Cena matches but a couple of personal faves are Cena/Taker SD 6/24/04, Cena/HHH Raw 10/19/09, and Cena/Rock WM 28 (mostly for the live atmosphere I experienced from ringside). My Top 5 for him are Extreme Rules with Brock this year, Punk at MITB 11, the Michaels matches in 07, and the Umaga last man standing match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really, really enjoy that Cena/Trips match the Raw before BR '09.

My SD '06 download is at 24%.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No complaints on the Cena/HHH late 09 RAW match other than it was a carbon copy of their previous matches. (Mid 09 on RAW & Night of Champions 2008)


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

The BR extras on Disc 2 of the Punk BitW BR are really awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:cena2 *DA CHAMP IS HURRRR* :cena2










:cena2 *John Cena's Top 10 Matches by moi* :cena2

*10. John Cena vs. Triple H
Wrestlemania 22
~ ****1/4 ~

9. John Cena vs. JBL
Judgment Day 2005
I Quit Match
~ ****1/4 ~

8. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
Monday Night Raw 2007
~ ****1/2 ~

7. John Cena vs. Triple H
Night Of Champions 2009
~ ****1/2 ~

6. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H
Survivor Series 2009
~ ****1/2 ~

5. John Cena vs. Edge
Unforgiven 2006
TLC Match
~ ****1/2 ~

4. John Cena vs. Randy Orton
Summerslam 2007
~ ****1/2 ~

3. John Cena vs. Umaga
Royal Rumble 2007
Last Man Standing Match
~ ****3/4 ~

2. John Cena vs. CM Punk
Money In the Bank 2011
~ ****3/4 ~

1. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar
Extreme Rules 2012
Extreme Rules Match
~ ****3/4 ~
(Would have been 5* if the ending wasn't retarded)*

Some may think I'm overrating a few of these and that's fine. Cena mark gna Cena mark lol. I haven't seen Punk/Cena from NOC yet but I am planning to watch it when I get the chance. I used to love their Summerslam match but I watched it not too long ago and actually ended up turning it off because it was boring me. Strange. DAT JAWN CENA CNT WRASSLE FUCKING FRUITY PABBLES DURRR 8*D​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are maybe only 4 matches I would have in Cena's top 10 . With 2 I think are legit trash .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> There are maybe only 4 matches I would have in Cena's top 10 . With 2 I think are legit trash .


So you would have a top 2. John Cena vs. The Undertaker and John Cena vs....The Undertaker? Lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I meant 4 out of your list, with 2 on your top 10 I think are shit .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> I meant 4 out of your list, with 2 on your top 10 I think are shit .


vs. Orton and I'm not too sure what the other one is lol. Probably vs. Trips I reckon. One or both of them lol.

I think I want to do a list for some other peeps when I get the chance. Making lists is fun DURR.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vs Umaga is the other one. That horrible, horrible, shitty, absolutely beyond retarded finish completely kills it for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I watched Cena/Undertaker from 24/6/2004 Smackdown the other day and it was an awesome match! Better than any of their 2003 ones even though Vengeance and Smackdown before SummerSlam were both awesome!



Brye said:


> I really, really enjoy that Cena/Trips match the Raw before BR '09.
> 
> My SD '06 download is at 24%.


Mine has reached about 70% if I'm not mistaken. Unfortunately, when I opened bitlord today, I was welcomed by the stupid "checking" thing where it goes through every mb I've downloaded from the torrent and it slows the living fuck out of my computer! Now every single one of them are at 0% and I have to wait hours before the checking is complete. DAMMIT!


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Just a quick little top five. I figured everyone's done a top ten already so I'm wondering if we can agree this is essentially the consensus five best Cena matches. Obviously the ordering could be rearranged and the ratings are subjective, so just consider the matches.

5. John Cena vs. JBL
Judgement Day 2005
I Quit match
:cena :cena :cena :cena

4. John Cena vs. Edge
Unforgiven 2006
TLC match
:cena :cena :cena :cena

3. John Cena vs. Umaga
Royal Rumble 2007
Last Man Standing match
:cena :cena :cena :cena 1/2

2. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar
Extreme Rules 2012
:cena :cena :cena :cena 3/4

1. John Cena vs. CM Punk
Money in the Bank 2011
:cena :cena :cena :cena :cena


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Finally watched the CM Punk doc. EPIC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Great lists guys. Seems to me as though the majority of people agree that Cena's top 2 would be vs Lesnar and vs Punk. Since those matches, as well as the other Punk matches and the Mysterio match from Raw are all from the past 2 years, can we say that Cena is potentially in his prime NOW in terms of in-ring work ? Seems like the feud with Punk in 2011 really lit a fire under his ass and motivated him to be something better than he was before.

2007 Cena was truly all kinds of awesome, but in that time period he never had that DEFINING career performance like he had in the MITB and ER matches. He might have been more consistent in 2007, but I feel he has more of a potential to create a classic now moreso than ever. I EXPECT great matches out of Cena now, as I believe he's one of the all time greats and doesn't get half of the respect that he deserves. Thoughts ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't and have never expected Cena to just have consistent streak of quality matches or "workrate" as some would call it, but I believe he is one of the best big match workers in wrestling today and I believe he has been since around 2006 - today. 

I think it would be interesting if you did a list in the future for Randy Orton. I have always been a fan of his and I think more people are starting to appreciate his past work so early in his career and have taken notice of his consistency in the ring for a while now.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Any recommendations for 2007 wwe ppv's ?

Also how long does it take for XWT to activate my account ?, Jesus!.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Backlash 2007 for sure, as there are only 6 matches, but two fucking AWESOME matches in the Undertaker-Batista LMS , and the fatal four way between Cena-HBK-Orton-Edge. The PPV also features a great Benoit vs MVP bout, a great opening tag bout, and a few decent other matches.

No Mercy 2007 is possibly the greatest PPV ever if you're a fan of Trips, but if you aren't you should probably stay the fuck away  

Cyber Sunday 2007 is recommended because it has an all-time classic for a main event in Taker-Batista, a near classic streetfight between Umaga and Hunter, a great stretcher match between Finlay and Rey, and a good WWE Championship bout between Shawn and Orton.

Watch Survivor Series 2007 just for the two main events. The Hell in a Cell match is fucking awesome, while the MOTN between HBK and Randy just so happens to be one of the best matches in Orton's career.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Cliffy Byro said:


> Any recommendations for 2007 wwe ppv's ?
> 
> Also how long does it take for XWT to activate my account ?, Jesus!.


Mine got activated as soon as I signed up

DL'd WCW PPVS 96-98 and 2003, 04 and 07 WWE PPVS. No idea which to start with


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

I just signed up to XWT because I saw a few of you guys mentioned it and I've just seen the rule about not letting your ratio drop below 0.7, I have no idea what this means as I'm pretty awful at stuff like this so can anybody help me out with it?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Raging Eboue said:


> I just signed up to XWT because I saw a few of you guys mentioned it and I've just seen the rule about not letting your ratio drop below 0.7, I have no idea what this means as I'm pretty awful at stuff like this so can anybody help me out with it?


When you download torrents, let them seed for awhile (12-24 hours at minimum) and don't remove them as soon as it's done downloading.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Maybe I need to watch Cena/Punk again, because I didn't really love Cena in it. Until he tops them I'll always think his best performances are easily the Umaga LMS and Raw match with Michaels.



Raging Eboue said:


> I just signed up to XWT because I saw a few of you guys mentioned it and I've just seen the rule about not letting your ratio drop below 0.7, I have no idea what this means as I'm pretty awful at stuff like this so can anybody help me out with it?


you have to upload at least 70% of what you're downloading. If have an overall download amount of 10GB, you should have uploaded at least 7GB. The minimum ratio was 0.6 until like three days ago. Either way I'm afraid to even open utorrent because my awful upload speeds will make those guys ban my arse in a hurry.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys, I think I know what I'm doing now haha


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol, my download is at 7.16 GB and upload at 21.41 GB which means I'm pretty safe. No idea how the amount of DL I have is so low but I guess it wont count if you don't download full torrents which I rarely do since I always tick off the stuff I've already seen or don't want.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> I don't and have never expected Cena to just have consistent streak of quality matches or "workrate" as some would call it, but I believe he is one of the best big match workers in wrestling today and I believe he has been since around 2006 - today.
> 
> I think it would be interesting if you did a list in the future for Randy Orton. I have always been a fan of his and I think more people are starting to appreciate his past work so early in his career and have taken notice of his consistency in the ring for a while now.


Orton has always been a key worker in the ring, imo. Even with his bland character and douchebag attitude now, he's still one to rely on with his matches. 

Random Orton match I like:

Orton vs Dibiase Jr - RAW 7/6/09 was pretty darn good. Strong story behind it. Wasn't too long (7:54), yet they really made fans get behind Dibiase and possibly turn face.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

on XWT I just seed forever for most things I download so my ratio is safe...~900 GB uploaded, ~120 GB downloaded.

EDIT: Going to watch all the WWECW Stuff from TV and try to watch most of their PPV stuff. With that being said a couple good matches I saw today

Kurt Angle and Rob Van Dam vs. Edge and Randy Orton - 6/20/06 - ***
Kurt Angle vs. Randy Orton - 6/25/06 - ***
Rob Van Dam vs. Edge - 6/25/06 - ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Avoid the botch filled RVD vs Sabu ladder match.

Some of those early Extreme Rules matches followed the namesake and did indeed, rule based upon my memory. Show/Flair, RVD/Holly matches, tag in Hammerstein. FUN~!

Also, the benchmark in ECW matches it seems, Punk vs Morrison for the ECW Championship. ECW gave us some good stuff from 2008 - the end in 2010. Damn. This might be the next project I have to go through with.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian in ECW 2009-2010 was an incredible run. Swagger, Dreamer (!!!!), Regal, Zeke (!!!!) and then matches here and there with random new talent they were throwing onto the show (Tatsu, Ryder etc).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Christian works so well with Zeke and made him look like gold. Christian is really talented in making his opponents look good since he returned in 2009.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll go to my grave claiming that the single greatest match in the history of ECW, be it WWE's version or the original, is Swagger Vs Christian from 24/02/2009. Ahh, when Swagger actually looked like a future world champ... well, one that wouldn't be shit and then have his career dive bomb :side:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah Christian tore it up with some many people. Including EZEKIAL JACKSON. Which is insane when you know how much of a steaming pile of shit he is. iirc Christian & Kane vs Regal & Jackson worked a southern style tag leading up towards Rumble 2010. It was nothing short of brilliant to say the least.

I still remember when Tatsu got his ECW Championship shot too. He actually felt credible and legit. Oh that time so was so much fun. I miss ECW. 

Forgotten match I'm sure, but Christian also had a darn good match vs Paul Burchill on Superstars in like September of 2009 (it followed the ECW where Ryder won the Battle Royal). SUPER DAVEY SMITH POWERSLAM~!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cody, I completely agree on that Orton/Ted match. (Y)

And ECW '09 owned as a whole. Had Christian, Swagger, Tatsu, Ryder, Regal, etc and then guys like Kidd and DH, some Finlay. Shit owned.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Cody, I completely agree on that Orton/Ted match. (Y)
> 
> And ECW '09 owned as a whole. Had Christian, Swagger, Tatsu, Ryder, Regal, etc and then guys like Kidd and DH, some Finlay. Shit owned.


I should go watch it right now. 

FINLAY. his little matches vs Kidd were quality. Then he worked a very european style (not being Claudio witty there) match vs Smith. Smith also had a lengthy, quality bout vs Christian in 09 too. Add that one to the list.

Anyone remember the Morrison vs Bourne match right before, or right after, the 2009 draft? It was pretty BOSS.

Yeah, I'm DEFINITELY going to run through all of these ECW matches next. Getting excited just talking about them. Although I'll avoid all 5 of those Ricky Ortiz matches. Yikes. One small blemish during late 2008 ECW. and The Boogeyman. Hard to believe that guy was around when Swagger vs Christian tore it up on TV.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I should do ECW after 2006 SD. I'll start with 2008 to see Mark Henry and Finlay tear shit up and go through 2009 to see Christian tear shit up.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Anyone seen the Punk DVD yet? Any good?


----------



## Iakona (Apr 5, 2005)

Bubz said:


> Anyone seen the Punk DVD yet? Any good?


I watched the documentary part.. really enjoyed it.

Glad they made an effort to cover his indy/ROH days.. was worried they would just skim over that!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I should do ECW after 2006 SD. I'll start with 2008 to see Mark Henry and Finlay tear shit up and go through 2009 to see Christian tear shit up.


WWE should be slapped for letting the awesome Henry/Hardy match not be on Summerslam 2008. Instead it happened the following ECW.

No Mercy 2008 = IMO too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Always liked the Henry/Hardy match at No Mercy a ton. I think it was the fist time I really saw Henry be pretty athletic with that jumping rope squish-you thing and it boggled my mind. I should like the match even more today. Henry worked Armageddon with Finlay in a Belfast brawl which I have no recollection of at all. There's no reason that shouldn't be an awesome match. Unless the midget's too involved. OK 1 reason.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Favorite Christian WWE matches?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Christian/Jericho WM XX is criminally underrated.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#Mark said:


> Favorite Christian WWE matches?


Shoot man. I'll come back to that when I start up this ECW project. 

I'll give one I thought was quality: vs Shelton Benjamin from Survivor Series 2004. ***1/2. Wasn't his best match while in the E, sure, but I always liked it. Threw in some nice spots towards the final stretch. Using Tomko to his advantage or finding any way to weasel his way to the championship was always entertaining. Classic heel Christian. They had good chemistry. I could list their ladder match from TLC 2009 if I remembered it. I don't, however.



Ever Wolf said:


> Christian/Jericho WM XX is criminally underrated.


***1/2. It has a nice back and forth flow to it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like the triple threat with Cena & Jericho at Vengeance 05, the ladder match with Alberto Del Rio at ER 11, the Orton series, the obvious ones (TLC series) and he has some good matches with Jericho in 2004, including steel cage and ladder. And it is not talked about much, if at all, but I enjoyed the fatal four way for the US Title that included Benoit, Orlando Jordan and Booker T. I think it was at No Mercy 05 or Great American Bash, not exactly sure on which PPV.

I really don't get how Christian went from challenging for the WWE Title on Raw against Cena to being jobbed out in throwaway midcard matches on Smackdown. It's obvious they did it intentionally because he was getting over in spite of their efforts to keep him a midcarder. Thankfully, he beat the system last year and became a TWO TIME World Heavyweight Champion!


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Oh yeah his match against Benoit @ No Mercy 05 was pretty decent, of course no where near his best matches as listed above but forgotten


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That 4 way owned. Now that's an underrated match. Best match on No Mercy 2005. Hate the Handicap Casket and thought Eddie only got Batista to a decent match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love Christian/Benjamin from Survivor Series '04. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I took Clique's suggestion and I've been watching Orton match after Orton match for the last week or so, and I have a fair grasp on what's going to be in my top 25. However, I'm going to need a little help in outlining what TV matches I should watch from Orton over his 10 year WWE career. I've got 3 or 4 hours to kill here so I can watch a nice amount of matches, I just need to know which TV matches I should watch. There are obvious ones like the Raw 04 and Smackdown 06 matches with Benoit, but can somebody else give me another 5 to 10 matches to watch so that I can finally watch/complete my list ? 

Here's a question to ponder as well : When it comes to pure in ring work and results over their 10 year careers, who has a better catalouge of matches, Orton or Cena ? Who is better overall ? For me, it's easily Cena in every regard, but I want to hear opinions on this.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm not sure. I'll have to make a top 25 matches for Orton myself to compare. Orton has his series with Christian and Undertaker which make up at least half a dozen ****+ matches. Not sure though how he would compare to Cena, but neither man has a match over ****1/2 imo.

In any event, some Orton TV matches:

1) Against Christian on Raw in 2005 in February (can't remember date) (***3/4-****)
2) Against Undertaker on SD, I believe in between their Summerslam and No Mercy matches (****-****1/4)
3) Against Christian on the SD after ER last year (****)
4) Against Edge Raw 2004 after Vengeance (****)
5) Against Edge Raw 2007 after Backlash (****)

That should hold you over for right now. All awesome TV Orton matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> So I took Clique's suggestion and I've been watching Orton match after Orton match for the last week or so, and I have a fair grasp on what's going to be in my top 25. However, I'm going to need a little help in outlining what TV matches I should watch from Orton over his 10 year WWE career. I've got 3 or 4 hours to kill here so I can watch a nice amount of matches, I just need to know which TV matches I should watch. There are obvious ones like the Raw 04 and Smackdown 06 matches with Benoit, but can somebody else give me another 5 to 10 matches to watch so that I can finally watch/complete my list ?
> 
> Here's a question to ponder as well : When it comes to pure in ring work and results over their 10 year careers, who has a better catalouge of matches, Orton or Cena ? Who is better overall ? For me, it's easily Cena in every regard, but I want to hear opinions on this.


Have you seen the 2006 Rey match yet? I still call it the best match Orton ever had. Edge v Orton the night after Backlash 07 gets some hype. I don't remember seeing it since it aired over here, though.

You want these Raw tags, too:

Evolution v Benoit/Michaels/Foley/Benjamin 4/12/04
Batista/Orton v Edge/Benoit 5/17/04
Batista/Orton/Flair v Benoit/Edge/Jericho 6/14/04 (I think this was like 40 minutes if you count what happens in commercials)

And I agree on Cena, but I'd probably rather watch Orton at his peak to Cena at his peak. _Probably_.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestions *Yeah.* Where would you consider Orton's peak to have taken place ? It would have to be from the program with The Undertaker up until his suspension right after Wrestlemania XXII wouldn't it ? I mean, DAMN he put on some really great matches in that time period. 

WM XXI vs Taker : ***** 1/4*
SS 05 vs Taker : ***** *
NM 05 Casket Match : ***** 1/4*
SS 05 Elimination Tag : ******
ARM 05 vs Taker HIAC : ******
NWO 06 vs Rey : ******

Plus you had the TV matches with Benoit that I'm currently watching. God damnit, I never realize how fucking awesome Orton was at that time period. Who was better than him at that point ? I can't think of very many honestly. That's actually better than Cena's peak.. Would have to agree. SIX ****** PPV matches in a row ? Going to look back over the last few years to see how many times that's been done since then.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

For a week to week basis and just personal preference I have Orton over Cena, but for the big match situations I have Cena over Orton. Orton's more consistent a producing quality TV matches, and I just like Orton's smooth flowing pace of his matches oppose to Cena's awkwardness at times. I think they both can sell well but Orton's a better long term seller and implements excellent nuances in his matches that I catch and enjoy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Thanks for the suggestions *Yeah.* Where would you consider Orton's peak to have taken place ? It would have to be from the program with The Undertaker up until his suspension right after Wrestlemania XXII wouldn't it ? I mean, DAMN he put on some really great matches in that time period.
> 
> WM XXI vs Taker : ***** 1/4*
> SS 05 vs Taker : ***** *
> ...


Honestly I'd probably consider his peak to be like a two year stretch. Around April 04-April 06. 2004 might be my favourite. Great Raw 2004 run with a ton of Evolution v Benoit & Co. tags, stuff with Edge, Benoit, Foley. 

I'm not one to use Dave Meltzer as a source for anything, but you can go to this page and ctrlF '2004', and you'll get his ratings for the year. You can totally IGNORE those ratings if you want (2006- I like how he rated Michaels v Vince from Mania over Rey v Orton from NWO), but look at the match listings as there's a lot of great tag match-ups there. I like using star rating listings like this a lot to look at random matches that might have happened that I want to see.

http://starratingslist.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/wwe-observer-star-ratings-1986-present.html

Not too many guys in the WWE during that period as good as Orton, yeah. Benoit, Eddie and Rey were definitely better. I think a guy like Regal was better when he got the chance, but that didn't happen too often. Taker was probably better starting from 2005. I don't love his 2004, but then again I doubt Orton could have gotten the match out of Heidenreich that Taker did. Matt Hardy may have been better. He definitely was in 2005, anyway. I can't think of anyone else.

If both Orton and Cena retired by the end of 2006 I'd take Orton in *heartbeat*, but I would take Cena's 2007 peak over Orton's objectively. But I do like watching Orton more. That may or may not make all the sense in the world. I think it just comes down to me liking the dickhead heel cockface over the work-from-the-bottom unbeatable champ. I think I agree with Clique that Orton's a better week-to-week wrestler and Cena's better for your main events. Overall on a "best of" list I gotta go with Cena being higher.

Also I forgot to mention Orton/JBL/Finlay v Rey/Benoit/Lashley from 06. No one talks about that and it's fun as hell. Dave only gave it ***1/4, but I think it's better than that so poo to him. :mark:


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

TNA spoilers in the WWE thread fpalm Really?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'd rather have a wrestler who produces a classic every now and then over a wrestler who has solid matches everyday--but a few standout matches. Highs and Lows > Straight Line.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Platt said:


> TNA spoilers in the WWE thread fpalm Really?


I appreciate you getting rid of it. Haven't had the chance to watch the show yet.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Platt said:


> TNA spoilers in the WWE thread fpalm Really?


:lmao i fucked up there

my fault, went to sleep right after so I didn't get a chance to put it in the TNA thread


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

After watching the Rise and Fall of ECW, I noticed (and heard before anyway) that Kurt Angle was close to signing for ECW before the whole "crucifixion" of Sandman changed his mind, but wasn't he involved in the WWE or at least aware that The Undertaker did the same thing with a number of superstars?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Agreed with whoever said Orton on a weekly basis but Cena in a big match situation. Cena's top/best matches are better than Orton's top/best matches too imo so I guess Cena overall.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> After watching the Rise and Fall of ECW, I noticed (and heard before anyway) that Kurt Angle was close to signing for ECW before the whole "crucifixion" of Sandman changed his mind, but wasn't he involved in the WWE or at least aware that The Undertaker did the same thing with a number of superstars?


Well the crucifixion was 1996 I think. It's possible that he changed and became more relaxed about things when Undertaker started doing it. It's also likely that he just didn't want to walk out on what was becoming the biggest wrestling company in the world at the time over Undertaker's crucifixions and learned to deal with it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Orton in 2004-2006 was just a godsend. Sublime character who was easy to hate, really understood how to wrestle as a heel and added so many heel mannerisms to his work e.g eye rakes, hair pulling, complaining about shenanigans when he was fairly put on his ass, stooging and stalling for time, feet on the ropes, having Flair/Batista assist in abdominal stretches. Add to that he also had a very good moveset to build a match, was a very good seller of offence and was agile enough to hang with the likes of Mysterio and Benoit whilst having the size to wrestle as a believeable threat to Undertaker. He was also brilliantly versatile, whether he was a cocky shit (Edge Vengeance 04, Mysterio 06 matches), a guy working stiffer and more physical matches (Benoit matches 04-06) or working big time matches (Taker feud, Cena Summerslam 07) he excelled in each area.

Sad to see what he's become now. He's pretty much abandoned the mannerisms and subtle touches to his work, has become closer to Edge in terms of ludicrously bad 'facial expressions', has developed this dreary monotonous style of ring work (I swear to christ there was one match in 2010 where he legit spent close to one minute doing stomps to a guy's arm, hand, ankle, leg etc and then went for a kneedrop only to miss and I felt like 2 minutes of my life were just wasted for absolutely nothing) and for the life of him cannot make himself a good face in peril no matter how mechanically good he is at selling etc: he's just not someone who should be getting worked over and making the comeback: he should be the asskicker and then use his good selling of offence to be the base for a babyface's comeback. His viper esque writhing 'selling' just makes it so hard to get invested in his FIP spells compared to an Evan Bourne or Mysterio who fly around the ring and bump like madmen to get over the workover.

His matches may also be the worst example of a formula making it hard to continually watch a wrestler. All his setups just feel the same even if he does switch parts of his offence up, his clothesline combo and duck into backbreaker sequence may be the worst 'quickfire main event babyface comeback' in recent memory and I just find very little to actually enjoy in his matches: the offence never looks great or painful, his workover is never memorable because the way he bumps just removes any drama from the match, really the only thing I can say he does well now is finishing stretches since a lot of his signature offence works in a way that you can buy his opponent countering it before Orton actually hits the move, and in that sense some of his finishing stretches with Ziggler in particular feel chaotic and fast paced in a natural way.

Cena's 2007 is better for me than Orton's peak, though Orton was a far better character at the time and I totally get why he was probably the more watchable, especially because his cockiness and physique made for so many interesting match ups. Cena post 2007 is far and away the better of the two however. Orton had sporadic moments of his peak in 07 and 08, but post 2009 and the Viper character I legit can't think of too many matches of his I'd point to as being 'great', and trying to actually name Orton performances post 2009 that I think carry a match might be even harder. I found Christian better in the Over the Limit match, was more invested in Henry during their NOC match (though that might actually be Orton's best performance in a couple of years), thought Punk was the better guy in both of their PPV matches and brought more to the match through his mannerisms, facial expressions and match layout etc.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

As a character performance, Orton in the I Quit match against Cena at BP 09 is one of my favorites. I love that match solely based on Orton alone. The ending is fucking bullshit though but I don't let it take away from Orton's awesome portrayal of his character in that one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its probably either that match, Cena NWO 2008 or the Henry match for best Orton performances since he passed his 'peak'. I think I still prefer the Henry performance, just because he's placed in a position he hasn't generally excelled in (making me want to root for him as a sympathetic babyface) yet he manages to really add to the match and his inability to cut Henry down was a really great side story besides the obvious 'can Henry finally win the big one' story. At least in the Cena match he was put in a position where he could be cruel and sadistic and then serve as the base of the comeback, rather than having to be the babyface in the Henry match and make me care about it besides my marking for how great Henry was.

That isn't meant to undermine his performance in the I Quit match, since it is excellent. I just find that Orton by rule of average is likely to have far better performances in that sort of environment than he is as a pure babyface in a clean wrestling match. Kind of like Edge making a name for himself in TLCs against Hardy, Flair, Cena and co but never impressing me as a singles main event wrestler. I'd sooner call an Edge performance in a singles match his best if he really excelled and had me questioning if I'd been wrong to doubt him all this time, compared to a TLC performance where I've come to expect that's where he shines brightest (or irritates me less).


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Orton was such a great dick heel in 2005/2006. His match with Mysterio at NWO 2006 made me wanna slap his shit eating grin right off his face.

Now he's all "My name.......... it Randy Orton", a robotic wrestler who wrestles slow matches. I don't think he gives a shit anymore.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

His Mysterio work might actually be the best he's ever been in a ring. I've said it enough times, but its a crying shame Orton/Mysterio wasn't the Smackdown Main Event at Wrestlemania 22 with Angle/Taker having a separate match, instead of the crap triple threat we got where Mysterio was made to look like Angle's bitch for 9 minutes before winning in the most unmemorable fashion. The April Smackdown match for the title might actually be the best WHC match ever, though Angle/Taker NWO is still the frontrunner for me. Still Orton's headlock and general offence has never looked better to me and he's a tremendous base for all of Mysterio's offence. 

Nowadays...his style is just a complete 360 to what I like in a wrestler. Whether its stiff/good looking offence, some sense of structure and story dominating the match, a good FIP section and teasing the babyface comeback etc, his matches are just so dry and tame. Feels like he has his set up spots for certain moves, and even if he does alternate them it still comes off as the same spot and just makes me feel bored watching it. I can't think of too many matches from Orton recently where the first 2/3rds of a match has actually mattered by the end, everything before the finishing stretch just feels like killing time before they start trading counters and signature offence.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved Orton's ring work from '03 to '08 and then the feuds with Cena/H/Batista started and I began to lose some interest. Then those horrendous Barrett & Miz matches in 2010 killed me. He's still one of my favorite wrestlers of all time but I agree his matches are very tamed now.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Agreed with whoever said Orton on a weekly basis but Cena in a big match situation. Cena's top/best matches are better than Orton's top/best matches too imo so I guess Cena overall.


Not trying to attack, honest question for anyone to answer, does being a better big match worker make you a better worker overall compared to a better week-to-week worker? When you mentioned Cena's big matches being better than Orton's that got me to think about other comparisons like Benoit & Undertaker or Rey Mysterio & Triple H. One is/was the more consistent yearly while the other was more consistent in the classic main events.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton has pretty much been stripped of all the things that made him great back in the day. As the Legend Killer, he was such a great heel. He was oozing charisma with some of the best heelish facial expressions, his promo skills were good (although he always sounds like he's remembering a script so he's obviously never topping any "best mic skills" lists) and his wrestling abilities were a bit sloppier than he's been as The Viper, but the match quality was always good. Now, he can wrestle pretty well and has far better knowledge on how to structure a match. For instance, he never lifts up his opponent just to dropkick them as that's a move that should be used out of nowhere when opponent runs towards you. For better or worse, his matches are a lot more methodical which can get a bit boring. But the part that has suffered the most is his charisma/mic skills. He always has to resort to "My name........... is Randy Orton!" and come across as this super shy guy that takes no shit when he's not about that at all. And as well as he plays a stalking snake when setting up the RKO, sometimes his facial expression can be terrible (most wrestlers are not great at pulling the 'angry face') and you just don't recognize the talent when you watch him as well as you would have when he was the Legend Killer.

I should make a list for him, though. I'm a huge fan and pretty familiar with most of his stuff.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> Not trying to attack, honest question for anyone to answer, does being a better big match worker make you a better worker overall compared to a better week-to-week worker? When you mentioned Cena's big matches being better than Orton's that got me to think about other comparisons like Benoit & Undertaker or Rey Mysterio & Triple H. One is/was the more consistent yearly while the other was more consistent in the classic main events.


It's a great question actually. I don't know lol. I guess that those big time matches and moments are what solidifies careers etc so they hold more weight. I would reckon that Taker and HBK having their awesome match at Mania 25 means that it gets held in higher regard by a lot of folks compared to if it happened on a lesser PPV or a Raw/SD. Maybe. Then there's this to consider. The guys who don't get to work a lot of main events have to be consistent weekly if they are to get any credit while the guys who know they have a main event slot coming up can perhaps afford to slack off during the weekly shows because they know they have the platform to perform on PPV. Benoit and Rey haven't had the same chances to work big main event matches like Taker and HHH have if that makes sense. I'm not saying the latter two can coast but I'm pretty sure that it happens. Cena is probably the best example of that happening. His weekly Raw matches are so paint by numbers. Some of his PPV matches are the same. But stick him in a big match situation and he performs. At the end of the day, it's the big PPV or Wrestlemania main event that the vast majority of people are going to remember over the smaller PPV/Raw/SD match. If you can perform on the big stage, does it prove your worth as a worker? Like I said before, I really don't know lol. I think there are a lot of different answers to this question. Cena/Rey from Raw is an awesome match but hardly anybody remembers it. Stick it on PPV and I'm pretty sure a lot more people would know about and remember it. There's more pressure to have a great match at a Wrestlemania than on SD you know. Pretty sure I just rambled on for a bit there but I hope you get the picture lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Clique said:


> Not trying to attack, honest question for anyone to answer, does being a better big match worker make you a better worker overall compared to a better week-to-week worker? When you mentioned Cena's big matches being better than Orton's that got me to think about other comparisons like Benoit & Undertaker or Rey Mysterio & Triple H. One is/was the more consistent yearly while the other was more consistent in the classic main events.


I wouldn't say so, to me I look at a worker regardless of his card positioning (not saying others don't, just citing my point). When I consider what makes a good worker, I have a certain list in my head:

Babyface - very good/great seller, smart structurer of his comeback, bumps big, good offence which either looks good (i.e stiff/painful when the match calls for it), is timed well to get a good reaction, unique touches (incoporating a weakened limb into his offence: e.g Christian selling the left arm after using it to hit a tornado DDT or switching up parts of his offence because the arm he'd normally use is hurt). Someone like an Evan Bourne is at minimum a good worker to me because he generally excells at these attributes, certainly compared to someone like Ryder or even current day Orton who may be good at some of these attributes, but bombs badly in other areas.

Heel - painful looking offence, smart layout of the match, facial expressions/mannerisms to sell a match through emotion, e.g furious in the beginning when he gets outwrestled, vicious when on offence, cocky the longer he dominates, frustrated/worried when he can't put his opponent away, big bumper, eats opponent's offence well, creative touches either as a transition spot or creative offence in general, making a workover feel important to the finishing stretch of a match, so the match flows rather than the final third being completely separate from the first 2/3rds.

To me, that's the standard of a good/great worker whether the babyface in question is Evan Bourne or John Cena, and the heel in question is 2006 Finlay or 2012 CM Punk.

Finlay to me is a better worker in that sense than any WWE heel in recent memory aside from maybe 2004-06 Orton. HHH, JBL, Batista, Lesnar, Angle, Edge etc all failed to be as good a worker as Finlay in those attributes I mentioned. Every part of his match felt relevant, there was always a good story to be found in his matches, he sold a match just as well visually as his opponent did a limb, his matches generally were creative and had several things you weren't used to seeing and most importantly it always felt like the match was constantly building and moving along at a nice pace instead of stopping and starting and going off in several directions.

I can appreciate why the likes of Shawn Michaels, HHH, Undertaker, Edge and co are seen as better workers than the likes of Finlay, Regal, Mysterio, Matt Hardy and other midcard 'workhorses' not named Benoit or Eddie: the 'elite' obviously were put in big time matches/angles that could captivate a crowd where as the Finlay's and Regal's where confined to great individual performances but rarely given a chance to excel in a big time environment: hell their entire style was the complete opposite of what a HHH or Edge for example would use in a main event match.

To me a good/great worker are ones who excel at the attributes I included, since its these attributes which I've become a greater fan of the more wrestling I've watched. I can see the merit in Cena's big time matches and performances earning him more praise than Orton maybe having generally solid matches on a week to week basis (though tbf I think Cena has just on average as good a TV output as Orton, especially post 2009), but to me if you had Orton working the main event and Cena working a lower position on the card I'd still call him a better worker because he just does a lot more of the things I've grown to appreciate better than Orton. I mean I like Cena a hell of a lot more than others, but he's not even close to being as good as Finlay, Regal or Danielson: regardless of his best matches perhaps being better/more memorable than their best matches.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Excellent responses guys and I totally see how people can look at the big match players with more reverence than the wrestlers working lower on the card and probably have the more good matches than the main event wrestlers have great matches. People often put more weight on big matches because they naturally have more prominence due to more hype, build, and a bigger setting. I agree with you Segunda that Mysterio or Finlay are great babyface and heel workers no matter their card position and it doesn't matter where they fall on the card those performances are quality. It's just that people will be quicker to take notice of a Shawn Michaels who in his own right is one of the best performers of all time but is also more hyped thus more memorable. People are more inclined to remember Michaels vs. Sid as opposed to Mysterio vs. Gallows even though the latter is arguably better.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Clique said:


> People are more inclined to remember Michaels vs. Sid as opposed to Mysterio vs. Gallows even though the latter is arguably better.


Yep that just about covers it *Clique*.

To me wrestling is ultimately a performance, in that respect I just look at someone like an Arn Anderson and see how he embraced every aspect of pro wrestling, from the comedy, to the serious aggressive style of wrestling, to selling visally and emotively as well as selling a limb, to bumping like a mad man, altering his approach depending on who he wrestled: e.g working differently with Steamboat than he would a rookie like Brian Pillman. I just see him look like the best in the world on any given night and see how he just masters all the aspects of a performer in that setting and can't put him below someone who might light the world on fire 5 times a year, when I know Arn has that performance in him everytime he wrestles.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Those PPV matches with Barrett were so horrendously bad  which leads me to another question ? What's the appeal of wade Barrett ? He doesn't have a good catalogue of matches AT ALL, his walking style of promo has already been beaten to death and is beyond boring right now, and his move set/mannerisms are downright horrendous as well. None of you will agree with this, but he's up there with Miz in terms of bad main event performances. Sure his big matches with cena were good as well as his 2011 SS match with Bryan , but damn !


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Those PPV matches with Barrett were so horrendously bad  which leads me to another question ? What's the appeal of wade Barrett ? He doesn't have a good catalogue of matches AT ALL, his walking style of promo has already been beaten to death and is beyond boring right now, and his move set/mannerisms are downright horrendous as well. None of you will agree with this, but he's up there with Miz in terms of bad main event performances. Sure his big matches with cena were good as well as his 2011 SS match with Bryan , but damn !


He's good on the mic but mic skills should not be all it takes to make you a World Champion. He's boring as fuck in the ring and has very little charisma. (it's funny how many people in forums call out Orton for sounding like a robot yet give Barrett a pass)

At the end of the day, it's the matches that matter since people will more likely go back and watch the matches than a bunch of random talk segments and as a wrestler, Barrett is bland and uninteresting which makes him, similar to The Moz, underwhelming.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

With Barrett, he's someone who's given the worst material to work with as far as mic work goes, and makes it passable. He's an incredibly gifted mic worker and has confidence and delivery down to a tee, but he rarely gets to speak riveting stuff, and hasn't since his Nexus days. 

The biggest problem besides his material and his lack of a true character for most of his singles run, has been his in ring work. He's improved leaps and bounds in the ring since those horrendous main events with Orton in 2010 and actually had 2-3 good ones with Orton in 2011-2012. Even back in 2010 when he was horrendous in the ring, he still had some good-great matches with Jericho and Cena. But he also had an excellent match with Bryan at Summerslam last year, which I put as his best match (****). He had several decent-good TV matches around that period with Sheamus, Kofi, Orton, and a few others. I also remember a very good TV match with him and Mysterio from early in 2011, but can't remember when or if it was Raw/SD. And hell, since his return he's had good matches with Ryder, Sheamus, and from what I saw of his match with Kidd on Superstars, that was a good one as well. It's true he can still have horrendous matches and his brawling style is probably very boring to a lot of people, especially when only utilized in squash environments, and he does need at least a good worker to have a good match, but I think he can be one of those big match players in the future. He proved he's capable with his match against Cena at HIAC in 2010, and now I'm sure if they revisited that, the match would be even better.

Plus what I also love about him is he has such the natural appearance, presence, and charisma of a heel. He get a decent amount of heat compared to most of the roster if he's doing something, and he could definitely be the top heel for the company again if WWE ever wants to go with him.

One thing that he has to change though if he wants to get a substantial amount of heat again the second he walks through those curtains is his theme music. Since he changed it earlier this year, it's been horrendous, and while his current version is better than what it was, it just screams "JOBBER MUSIC!"

As far as the comparison to Miz, back in 2010 their in-ring work was comparably bad and they were close together in that field. However now? Barrett's far above Miz imo in every category. 

Also, going back to Sheamus, I love the chemistry Barrett has with Sheamus and want them to fucking feud already.



> (it's funny how many people in forums call out Orton for sounding like a robot yet give Barrett a pass)


Meh, they both get equally robotic material but Barrett sounds extremely lively compared to Orton nowadays imo.

It's sad to, because I used to be such a big mark for Orton. Back in 2004-2005, he was probably my favorite wrestler in the company bar Undertaker, and mid-way/end of 2005 on, Edge. I was even a bigger mark than I am for Punk now. I remained a mark through 2006, and 2007 but then I just started getting bored of him shortly after NM 07. By WM that year, while I was still a fan, I wasn't as interested in him anymore. The whole Orton/McMahons angle made me a big fan again, but then after that gets screwed up, followed by some more terrible booking of Orton, I lost all interest in him again and by the time he won the WWE Title in 2010, I couldn't even call myself a fan. And my opinion on him has gone down and down ever since then as well. I still do like when they put him in the ring with mid-card guys because I always feel there's a chance the mid-card guy could win, which I don't get when a mid-carder would face Cena. And I like the fact he's been a much better worker since moving to SD in 2011. But ultimately Orton fails to hold my interest anymore, and it's not entirely his fault as WWE booking and his character really hold him back, but I also feel, especially since losing the title to Henry and now since his return, he's taken a very laid-back and lazy approach to how he does things. It's a shame when looking back considering I was such a huge mark back in the day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Urgh, Wade Barrett. Was a fan of him during the first NXT series. And he's actually gone down hill from then. His in ring skills are pretty terrible now. Promo? "Barrett Barrage this, winds of change that, nothing memorable or remotely good". His new "in ring style" is laughable too. I hope he doesn't become the first English champion. Should have given Regal a run years ago, even if he lost it the week after winning it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

There are other ways to express your charisma than through mic work. It's such a gross misconception on this forum that if you can't cut a promo you have no charisma. Orton wouldn't be this over if he didn't have charisma. Without it, the fans will have no attachment to you. Jeff Hardy can't cut a promo to save his life but he didn't have to in order to get over and stay over because for some inexplicable reason, he just has IT and is charismatic as shit. Mic work wasn't a strong suit of Batista. His overall physical presence and charisma combined with some of the best storytelling in years is what got him over and kept him over. Barrett had an entire faction built around him and was working with the top babyface in the company. As soon as all that was taken away from him and he was simply Wade Barrett nobody gave a shit because when he isn't talking, there isn't much to see. Mic work doesn't = charisma. Hell, Triple H and Taker when they both returned in 2011 didn't say a single word to each other for 15 minutes and the whole arena lost their shit for the entire time. That's charisma.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Some wrestling fans always seem to think speaking into a microphone loudly means you are more charismatic. I think have strong mic skills is translated through personality for sure but charisma is exactly what Starbuck was describing and it's often an intangible that can't be taught but can be found or fleshed out with the right character/persona, the right booking, and a particular look. Guys like Undertaker, Goldberg, Jeff Hardy, and Rey Mysterio don't need to cut long promos to display their charisma and sustain powerful connections with audiences.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Clique said:


> Some wrestling fans always seem to think speaking into a microphone loudly means you are more charismatic. I think have strong mic skills is translated through personality for sure but charisma is exactly what Starbuck was describing and it's often an intangible that can't be taught *but can be found or fleshed out with the right character/persona, the right booking, and a particular look.* Guys like Undertaker, Goldberg, Jeff Hardy, and Rey Mysterio don't need to cut long promos to display their charisma and sustain powerful connections with audiences.


Bold part is exactly what I feel is the problem with Barrett right now and his apparent lack of charisma. When he was with the Nexus, even when it was just him out there, he got a TON of heat and had a clear connection to the audience because he had a clear character, great material, strong booking, and just looked like an evil manipulative son of a bitch. It's something he hasn't had since, and sadly only a select few people can have that level of charisma where even when they're given meaningless/un-important stuff in the grand scheme of things to do with today's audience, who've been conditioned to Cena being the magnet where all important stuff goes. But Undertaker is the fucking Undertaker. Jeff Hardy's daredevil antics are always a blast to watch and react to, even if you're not a fan of the guy. Rey Mysterio's the size of a lot of kids and his style is always fun to watch, but he also has a strong in-ring work rate and people always expect something from him. And Goldberg had the undefeated streak and was seen as this unstoppable force where nothing could stop him and that contributed a lot to his reactions and why the audience cared for him. 

This isn't really just an excuse for Barrett, but an excuse for all of the guys today who when they're not in the main event, they seemingly can't connect with the audience to elicit a reaction. Even Del Rio, who does seem to have no charisma at all and is probably the best example of someone having no charisma since he was given a RR and two WWE Titles a year in his WWE career, not to mention a prominent player on SD the last 6 months and he doesn't lose often, but yet still rarely gets even a smudge of heat. However, even with all of that it can be attributed to how his character has been misused and how his material is repetitive and bland. 

So I do think not only Barrett, but a lot of the guys on the roster have some charisma, but not on the levels of guys like Jeff Hardy, Orton, etc., who I feel aren't on the levels of guys like Undertaker, Lesnar, Goldberg, who even then I don't think are the example of guys with the absolute peak of charisma like Rock and Flair.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton on Smackdown 7 April 2006. Wow, what a match! It went on for about 20 minutes and I still said to myself "NO, please don't end here!" when Rey hit the 619 successfully. Easy ****1/4 here. I saw the full SD episode on this link a few months ago but skipped the match because I was more interested in the storyline advancements and the promos but what a big mistake! GREAT fucking match this was and the more I think about, the more sense it would've made to have Angle challenge Taker for the streak and then Orton and Mysterio wrestling for the World Title.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Exactly, "The Ringmaster" is a technical hand, a guy that can put on decent matches on the card. Stone Cold Steve Austin is a star you build an entire federation around. There needs to be something extra present for the audiences to care. Look at Morrison and Miz for example. Morrison is a much better performer and worker than Miz but he never found a way or was given a creative way to fully get his character over and connect like Miz has these last few years. I still don't think Miz should be working WrestleMania main events but the guy knows how to work his annoying, loud mouth heel character. I feel Shelton Benjamin suffered the same issues as Morrison - good worker but directionless. Barrett has proven he can hold his own in a main event program with the top stars in the company but he has to get those ring skills together because contrary to what people think ring skills do matter. He doesn't need to be Benoit in the ring who had flawless execution of moves and pieced a match together with precise psychology, or even Hogan who can infuse his charisma to make a match feel great but the fans want a great show when that bell rings. They remember the great matches and moments. Barrett and a lot of guys in the current WWE need clear and consistent direction too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I agree in-ring skills is definitely sizable portion of how someone can show their charisma. It's funny because my brother (who's a huge Rock mark) was more excited hearing Rock was competing at Survivor Series than Rock coming back in February 2011 and cutting the promo he did, and I think Rock's in-ring work, while good for the most part, has never been exceptional. Ultimately while I believe mic skills/feuds is what will primarily bump up the TV ratings, big/highly anticipated matches were what sell PPVs, and a part of those matches being big is the charisma of the individuals competing. 

That being said, I still don't get Barrett being bad in the ring anymore. If you feel his style is boring to watch, that's one thing and I think it's that style that's very uneventful in maneuvers that's making it hard for people to care about him (he also doesn't use many moves during a match as he strikes a lot), but technically speaking he works his style very very well, and has developed a nice little move set and has decent looking offense/control segments. I think it's not the technical aspect of his in-ring work, but rather the style he utilizes combined with the fact there isn't much a reason to watch his matches since nothing big will happen that gives off this illusion that he's bad in the ring.

But to each his own.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Some wrestling fans always seem to think speaking into a microphone loudly means you are more charismatic.


This is so perfect and I agree. The Miz and Mr. Kennedy are *not* good mic workers, yet because they're loud and talk big so they're praised as such. Then there's wrestlers like Raven who use fancy words and all this stuff but in actual fact are bad actors and are just babbling nonsense. 

I liked Barrett's promos a lot while he lead the Nexus, but it got repetitive week after week. He's had surprisingly good showings in matches against Zeke and Sheamus since then but overall he's not someone I care to watch any more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Timeline 1997 with Jim Cornette,

Really enjoyed it myself tbh, probably a bit more than Nash's 1995 one, gotta love listening to Cornette though, some reason i think he hates Russo 

One thing that came across too i thought was his enthusiasm for actual wrestling matches, more than some of the silly stories which was nice.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When it came to Mr. Kennedy, if he wasn't wrestling Taker I could have really cared less. Thought his schtick was completely boring....."DURR I TALK LOUD" Was the extent of his gimmick, and the fact that he got injured and left for the lesser company is one of wrestling's hidden blessings over the past 10 years ago. Any other "Hidden Blessings" happen over that time period ?

When it comes to The Miz in terms of singles competition, his best match would be his match with Daniel Bryan at Night of Champions 2010. **** 3/4* from me, an all around awesome match with only Miz-Morrison from Raw coming close to it in terms of Miz singles. There was a match with Cena on Raw in mid 2011 that was good, but other than that... Fuck Miz  . The fatal four way at last month's Night of Champions was a terrible, terrible match... Who had the brilliant idea to put Miz and Sin Cara in a match together ? I swear, if those two ever got a singles match on PPV, it might end up being a DUD. 

Barrett's best singles match from where I stand is vs Bryan as well, which is the SS 2011 encounter that I currently have at **** 1/2* , which barely beats out the two Cena PPV matches for me. Come to think of it, I don't think Bryan gets enough credit for pulling GREAT fucking matches out of pure shit  If the WWE ever wasted an Undertaker streak match on Wade, I'd be 100 percent convinced that there is no god.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I liked Kennedy. His matches with Taker were pretty damn good, mostly because of how sloppy there were. Kennedy had nothing even resembling a moveset, his matches with taker was just two guys fucking each other up


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> If the WWE ever wasted an Undertaker streak match on Wade, I'd be 100 percent convinced that there is no god.


I guess you can say there is one since this match will never happen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Redead said:


> I liked Kennedy. His matches with Taker were pretty damn good, mostly because of how sloppy there were. Kennedy had nothing even resembling a moveset, his matches with taker was just two guys fucking each other up


I remember Taker working his arm or something. Kennedy's pretty bad. I haven't seen a match in the 2006 SDs where he's looked like the better guy and he's just been facing jobbers for the most part. I find it absolutely mind-boggling and totally bloody hilarious that anyone thought he was going to be the future of wrestling. He has no tools whatsoever.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Best Mr. Kennedy matches in WWE worth watching

Kennedy/Matt Hardy SD 06
Kennedy/Batista SD 06
Kennedy/Batista GAB 06
Kennedy/Taker No Mercy 06
Kennedy/Taker First Blood Survivor Series 06
Kennedy/Taker Last Ride Armageddon 06
Kennedy/Batista Royal Rumble 07
Kennedy/HBK Armageddon 07
Kennedy/HBK Raw 08

That's the best he's looked in the WWE as far as singles matches are concerned. Most of everything else is average or crappy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I forgot that he faced Batista at GAB after Henry was injured. I'm almost up to GAB so I'll give that a look.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Kennedy was alright IMO

His problem was his attitude and sense of entitlement


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Redead said:


> Kennedy was alright IMO
> 
> His problem was his attitude and sense of entitlement


And being injury prone...

So, haven't watched Raw for more than a total of 10 minutes since maybe June. How was tonight's show? Any improvements or should I just stick to my DVDs?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Punk and Bryan/Kane stuff is usually the most or only entertaining thing on the shows these days. If you have DVR it helps getting through Raw just watching the best promos and catching a decent TV match.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Yeah, always thought Miz's mic work was overrated. Ever since Rock if you have catchphrases and say loud things, youre great on the mic. Also if you haven't held the world belt you're "underpushed, charismatic, and technically sound". Any time I read those things about Alex Riley and Jinder Mahal, I die a little.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Makaveli said:


> And being injury prone...
> 
> So, haven't watched Raw for more than a total of 10 minutes since maybe June. How was tonight's show? Any improvements or should I just stick to my DVDs?


what Clique said + Cesaro squashes are always worth viewing.

On the subject of Kennedy, well, he sucked. Undertaker couldn't get anything special out of him. Only matches I think that worked were the series vs Shawn Michaels. His match against Batista @ GAB '06 is a friggin trainwreck. Garbage. The one from Rumble '07. Ok, now that one was pretty good. Still surprises me that it worked.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*In Your House 16 Canadian Stampede 1997: Undertaker (C) Vs Vader - *****

Great in ring work,insane crowd (the camera was shaking lol).One of the best big men matches i have ever seen.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

For the short match it was, I enjoyed Cesaro/Gabriel from last night.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Didn't pay attention to Cesaro/Gabriel. I did however like once again, the Barrett/Sheamus match. Didn't like it quite as much as last week, but the match was good and really picked up after the commercial break. Lol'd at Show reacting to Wade getting offense on Sheamus. Last week I'd give their match ***1/4, and this week ***. Once again the ending sucked though. Don't get why one of the last two matches couldn't have ended with Show distracting Sheamus and forcing Sheamus to release Barrett from his submission, followed by Barrett hitting 'The Souvenir" and getting the win. Would've put over the move as well as it could being able to knock out the WHC.

I think WWE is scared to have Sheamus play the underdog for fear it'll hurt his image. They're trying to make it seem like he can trade blows with Show at every corner. Between the loss to Punk and losing to Barrett on one of the last two Raws, they could play it up not only does Sheamus have size and strength over Sheamus, but he's also now in Sheamus' head and taking him off his game, forcing him to lose most of his last few matches (including the DQ loss to Miz, and perhaps a countout loss would've been sufficient last week on SD against Tensai). Instead we have no reason to fear for our "hero" Sheamus because he's proven he can handle Show and rarely loses anyway. No kid who believes this stuff is 100% real should believe Sheamus will lose the match, and while that may work for them to have confidence in their hero, it doesn't work for everyone else who knows there are predetermined outcomes and it's why it would never be a selling point of a PPV. Not this feud or any other Sheamus feud, including the potential Barrett/Sheamus feud coming up. God forbid Ziggler has to feud with Sheamus after winning the WHC. Out of like the dozen times they've faced, the only win I have for Ziggler over Sheamus is a tag where he managed to roll up Sheamus. In singles competition they've almost as much and Ziggler has never beat Sheamus. It's kind of sad if you ask me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sheamus is just awful. :/ I don't even fully blame him though, it's the booking of him. When he's actually being booked normal, he can be entertaining. I actually really liked him last Summer. But now I find him dreadful.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus isn't anything spectacular himself, and I've never been a fan, but his booking is making me dislike him tbh, when considering he's a face, it should be the exact opposite. The sad thing is he's still one of the most over guys on the roster (though out of all the full-time guys who do get consistent reactions, which are Cena, Punk, Ryback, and Sheamus, his are mild in comparison).

But it's funny. A year ago when he was an IWC favorite, I remember saying, especially with the backlash Punk started getting this time last year, that Sheamus would eventually become one of the most hated in the IWC. And what do you know? He won the RR? The hate for him among many members became quite apparent. He beat Bryan at WM? Not only did the hate among in the IWC skyrocket, but his reactions have become tame compared to where they were a year ago and he's even gotten booed a few times since Mania. If he was the main event of Raw every week, I'm certain he'd be Cena 2.0 with his reactions. I really do try to refrain from hating guys who I don't like, and rather I try to ignore them completely. With Sheamus though and how prominent he is in the WWE, it's gotten tough to do so in the last several months, though I'd never start a topic on my dislike of Sheamus and his talents (his booking may be another thing).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I still like Sheamus. His goofiness works in his favor with me. I just like him more and more the more he makes corny jokes which is weird since I would hate it had anybody else done it. While everyone here sounded like they wanted to bomb WWE's headquarters for that Big Show debate segment, I was crying from laughing so hard when watching that segment and looking at the "IWC reaction". :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I still like Sheamus. His goofiness works in his favor with me. I just like him more and more the more he makes corny jokes which is weird since I would hate it had anybody else done it. While everyone here sounded like they wanted to bomb WWE's headquarters for that Big Show debate segment, I was crying from laughing so hard when watching that segment and looking at the "IWC reaction". :lmao


Wish I could've enjoyed it. The segment absolutely sucked to me though, and I still stand it was one of the worst segments I've seen in a long time.

That being said, I know that feeling of loving something when everyone else hates it and how sweet it can be. Hell, just experienced that last night when 90% of the Raw discussion thread hated/was bored by the Barrett/Sheamus match. :lmao

On the topic of Sheamus' goofiness, that's probably the thing I hate the most about him... and what a coincidence, it's the same thing I (and many others I'd assume) hate Cena for. Hell, same thing for CM Punk when he was face (though I'd prefer him infinitely to Sheamus). It's fine if it's a comedy character who's not main eventing like Santino or Ryder, but for main event faces it just doesn't work for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

When I speak of his goofiness, I mean his pale skin, his chest pounding and accent rather than the jokes he comes up with. As soon as I hear him talk, I just laugh and don't even pay attention that often to what he says. Hell, I don't remember what he said in that Big Show segment, but I just couldn't help but laugh at that segment. Might just be that I laughed at it for all the wrong reasons. (like Show's podium) :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ah... well, fair enough. His look is unique and I remember the first couple of Raws he appeared on I had several good laughs about it. 

Gonna start working on a few top 25 lists for wrestlers in anticipation for K1ngofK1ng's lists. Of course difference between mine and his are... well... I'm not watching all the matches buy that wrestler and going pretty much strictly based off memory. But I usually wing my lists and figure I'd start keeping them in a word document so I can keep them steady. I also watched Taker/HBK WM26 few hours ago (couldn't sleep so just said "fuck it" and decided to watch) and actually enjoyed it more than I ever had. Taker's selling really stuck out to me more and while it still doesn't feel as big of a match as their WM25 match, I can understand why people think it's better. I'm still not one of them though, but I now put the match at ****3/4. Awesome main event. Taker's selling is fantastic and the flow of the match is excellent. The finish is still as epic as ever.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

The Punk DVD is really great imo. Punk has a genuinely great story that deserved to be put on DVD and he's so honest about everything. They really sell him as 'the man' on it which was kinda surprising but awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LISTTTT TIMEEE!


*The Top 10 Last Man Standing Matches In WWE History*


10.









"This Sunday Shawn.. I break you again"

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Royal Rumble 2004) : **** 3/4*


9.









"Edge just can't keep Cena down!"

John Cena vs Edge (Backlash 2009) : ******


8.









"I HATE YOU TOO!"

John Cena vs Batista (Extreme Rules 2010) : ******


7.









"What a war these men have been through..."

The Undertaker vs Batista (Backlash 2007) : ******


6.









"Deadman, I'm gonna knock you out once and for all"

The Undertaker vs Big Show (Cyber Sunday 2008) : ******


5.









"How many more of these headshots can Benoit take?"

Edge vs Chris Benoit (Backlash 2005) : ******


4.









"What will be the final chapter in the most prolific night of any WWE superstar EVER"

Triple H vs Randy Orton (No Mercy 2007) : ***** 1/4*


3.









"Just...Stay...Dow AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Triple H vs Ric Flair (Survivor Series 2005) : ***** 1/4*


2.









"Look at that monster..."

John Cena vs Umaga (Royal Rumble 2007) : ***** 1/2*


1.









"What a physical dissection by the game"

Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 2000) : *******


*MR. Last Man Standing = :hhh *

Thoughts ? Personal lists ?


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

The Game truly is the last man standing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1. Cena/Umaga
2. HHH/Jericho
3. Taker/Show
4. HHH/Orton
5. HHH/Flair

Probably. IDK about a top ten since I can't remember ten LMS I actually really like. Don't think I've ever seen Benoit/Edge. Definitely never seen Cena/Edge or Cena/Batista. Taker/Batista bored the shit out of me on last watch. I'll watch HHH/Michaels again soon for the hell of it but I've never thought it was that good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What does everyone think to JBL/Angle LMS from SD 05? I haven't seen it since it aired, wondered if it was any good.

Top 5:

1. HHH/Jericho FL 00
2. Undertaker/Batista BL 07
3. HHH/Orton NM 07
4. Undertaker/Show CS 08
5. Rock/Mankind 99 or Show/Shane BL 01


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

1) Cena/Umaga Royal Rumble
2) Edge/cena Backlash
3) HHH/ Orton No Mercy


i cant remember or havent seen the rest. Edge/Cena at backlash really was fantastic


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Orton and Trips had another really good LMS on Raw in '09 too (Commercial free episode). Better than all their other matches besides the LMS at No Mercy 07.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You ain't seen HHH/Jericho LMS? You gotta get on that like, 12 years ago man.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

HHH/Jericho is one my favourite WWF/E matches ever. It's beautiful.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Rock/Foley had a pretty swell LMS at one of the In Your House PPVs in 1999.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cena/Umaga
Cena/Edge
Jericho/Trips

Lots of good LMS matches though. I think it's my favorite gimmick match.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i saw jericho trips

kinda

quality was shit and i was bored anyways so i didnt really pay attention


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Redead said:


> i saw jericho trips
> 
> kinda
> 
> quality was shit and i was bored anyways so i didnt really pay attention


You suck. Go find a good quality version of the match and watch it god dammit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some of my favorite LMS matches:

Orton/HHH (NM 07)
Cena/Umaga (RR 07)
HHH/Flair (SVS 05)
Edge/Benoit (BL 05)
HHH/Jericho (FL 00)
Taker/Batista (BL 07)

Had mixed feelings about HBK/HHH on last watch (the KingCal disease has hit me ) even though first time I liked it, need to watch Rock/Mankind and Taker/Show and I wasn't a huge fan of Cena/Edge on first watch. But I need to rewatch that too along with Cena/Batista.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Shane vs Show LMS from Backlash 2001 is also a lot of fun

EDIT:

How could I forget Kane vs Edge from the first SD of 2011 - really enjoyable!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Umaga tops the list for Last Man Standing matches imo.

That was my favorite WWE match for a long time till about Punk/Cena MITB. 

Power of :cena


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Mercy 2004:*

Eddie Guerrero vs Luther Reigns - **1/2
- Eddie tries his best to carry this match into something and although the finish is memorable, the match is nothing special.

Spike Dudley vs Nunzio - **3/4
- Nothing bad and nothing special. Just okay.

Billy Kidman vs Paul London - **1/2
- Same as above. Although the sudden use of the SSP did surprise me as I assumed it was banned after the Chavo accident.

René Duprée & Kenzo Sazuki vs Rey Mysterio & RVD - **1/2
- Is this the PPV of below-to-average matches?

Big Show vs Kurt Angle - **1/2
- The trend continues...

John Cena vs Booker T - ***
- The end of the Best of 5 series and the best match out of the 4 I've seen (the house show one excluded). Cena is rather bland in the ring at this point, he truly improved when he became a main event guy.

Charlie Haas & Rico & Miss Jackie vs Dudleyz & Dawn Marie - **
- Now we're back to the status quo of matches in this PPV!

JBL vs Undertaker (Last Ride) - ***1/2
- Gonna have to rewatch this tomorrow but I remember it being good and better than their SummerSlam match. Heidenrape makes an appearance in the end out of nowhere and based on the comments I've read, I'm excited about his match with Taker at Survivor Series.

*Overall:* ** out of ***** (PPV has a continuing trend of below average Smackdown PPVs in 2004 and here, every match except two are just... there and nothing special. Not much is downright terrible but nothing save for the main event is memorable either.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

you liked Cena/Booker? They had no chemistry together.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> you liked Cena/Booker? They had no chemistry together.


It was a'ight, nothing more, though. I agree that they lack chemistry but I was in no rush to see the match end and that's always a plus in my book, which puts it above the rest of the PPV sans main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was the weakest match on the PPV for me.

London/Kidman was the easy MOTN imo. Last Ride was ok. Only remember 3 spots. That can't be a sign that it was good.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Man I recall that tag match with RVD/Rey being surprisingly enjoyable. Granted it's easily been a good 5+ yrs since watching the show (I do own it on dvd and have watched it a couple times), but I distinctly remember being surprised by how decent it was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's average. Felt like the styles of both teams didn't click very well. Armageddon 2004 match is better. Granted, that had its less than smooth moments during it.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

The Canadian Stampede PPV might be my favorite PPV of all time, every match still holds up.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> *No Mercy 2004:*
> 
> Eddie Guerrero vs Luther Reigns - **1/2
> - Eddie tries his best to carry this match into something and although the finish is memorable, the match is nothing special.
> ...


WWE was brillant back then and took advantage of anything given too them Billy Kidman non kayfabe hurts Chavo with the SSP so the WWE turn him into this maniac who just wants to hurt people with the SSP it was quite a character turn shame it didn't last long.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Has anyone here got all the ep of 03/04 SD on DVD?


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Redead said:


> Edge/Cena at backlash really was fantastic


I agree. I was so amazed when that Attitude Adjustment into the crowd didn't finish it. :lol


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just picked up Mick Foley Greatest Hits and Misses, Wrestlemania 24 and the History of the World Heavyweight Championship all for £20, pretty happy and looking forward to an awesome afternoon


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena/Umaga and Jericho/HHH are just incredibly hard to decide between. I think Jericho/HHH uses the gimmick better, i.e HHH dissecting the ribs to make it harder for Jericho to stand, the way they generally just beat the shit out of each other and don't have an abundance of stoppages in the match for the ref to count, but rather utilise a few spots where both men are down and forced to get to their feet. Felt that unlike a lot of WWE Last Man Standing matches, both men just wanted to fight each other every second of the match, rather than endless spots to break up the action: feels like a legit fight and HHH resorting to a dissection of the limbs to incapacitate Jericho without having to resort to gimmick weapons always impresses me. Might also have the best finish ever to a WWE LMS match, HHH getting up only to collapse right back down the minute the 10 count is made is just perfect: you can feel every Jericho fans' soul tear apart as this prick somehow gets to his feet for 1 second to win the match.

Cena/Umaga however is more of a war and probably a better story driven match, between Cena's supreme selling and the overall story of Umaga constantly having an answer to Cena's offence its incredibly easy to just get caught up in the story of the match and see how Cena can make a comeback. Its more relient on weapons than Jericho/HHH but its a rare match where the weapons do add to the beating Cena takes and serve as an escape route to weaken Umaga. Finish is stupid in terms of exection, but I do respect the thought process behind it and its certainly a fitting way to end a bloody and brutal war and answer the question of how do you beat Umaga?

Cena/Edge I don't really like. Feels like an endless array of big spot after big spot and just lacks the hate and overall 'war' aspect that makes Cena/Umaga and HHH/Jericho stand apart. I'm not that surprised though, Edge is pretty notorious for having umpteen spots in his big gimmick matches so I'm not sure why I go into the match expecting anything else: still as a stand alone prop war its impressive, but I don't think it captures the true essence of a rivalry like Cena/Umaga and HHH/Jericho did. 

Show/Taker, Flair/HHH and HHH/Orton are all damn good however. HHH/Orton might be HHH's best performance as a babyface in his entire career, and I'm still shocked by how good he actually is in it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWFEffect said:


> WWE was brillant back then and took advantage of anything given too them Billy Kidman non kayfabe hurts Chavo with the SSP so the WWE turn him into this maniac who just wants to hurt people with the SSP it was quite a character turn shame it didn't last long.


Lol, yeah. I've been watching the weekly episodes and Billy Kidman's character has taken a complete 180.


----------



## Manelpirolito (Nov 5, 2006)

The-Rock-Says i have all raw and smackdown episodes from 2001 to 2012,plus all wwe ppvs and much more


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wish I had that much space in my computer to have entire years downloaded. Then I would have everything from 97-08 but no, I have to delete whatever I've finished watching to make room for other years. 

Speaking of which, I'm almost finished with downloading Smackdown 2006. Almost at 94% and SD 05 is at 88% (going a bit slow atm, though).


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

About to watch the Triple H No Mercy 2007 trilogy. Could you guys share your ratings?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> I wish I had that much space in my computer to have entire years downloaded. Then I would have everything from 97-08 but no, I have to delete whatever I've finished watching to make room for other years.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm almost finished with downloading Smackdown 2006. Almost at 94% and SD 05 is at 88% (going a bit slow atm, though).


Back up to DVD? That's what I do lol. Got 97, 98, 99 Raws and 99, 00, 01, 02 and 03 SD's on disc. Saves PC space and I have access to them when I want.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

You wouldn't sell them RAW's and SD DVD's, Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The-Rock-Says said:


> You wouldn't sell them RAW's and SD DVD's, Cal?


I do indeed sell copies of them . They are nothing more than avi/mpeg (I think SD 03 is mpeg) on discs, though I do have many other years on normal video dvd discs with usually one ep per disc (2 is they were 1 hour shows).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RevolverSnake said:


> About to watch the Triple H No Mercy 2007 trilogy. Could you guys share your ratings?


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ! More :hhh talk!


vs Orton I : *** 3/4*
vs Umaga : *** 1/2*
vs Orton II : ***** 1/4*

The first Orton match is an awesome paced bout, but due to the fact that they would be wrestling later in the night, I think both Trips and Orton decided not to leave it all out there. One of the BETTER Trips-Orton bouts out there and again, a really nice fast pace. Trips catching Orton instead of decisively beating him made the segment that much better as it kicked off the theme of survival. 

The Umaga match is GREAT, but it's extremely short at about 6 minutes. Umaga DESTROYS Triple H's ribs and just works it over until Hunter hits one of the most beautifully executed Pedigree's I have ever seen for the win. My favourite ** 1/2 match ever by far 

The Last Man Standing match is INCREDIBLE. These two just went out there and tore the house down for 20 minutes straight. It was one of those LMS's with a ton of 10 counts, and both men play their roles very well, with Trips being the valiant babyface who is giving his last breath to survive the night, and Orton being the gutsy heel trying to survive Trips's last array of offense. 4th best LMS from where I stand for sure, and one of the best matches in Orton's career. The best singles match that Orton-Trips have had BY FAR (Next best is RR 05 which I have at **** 1/2*). 

(on a side note) Who in their right fucking mind came up with the idea to have Trips-Orton main event Wrestlemania in a standard wrestling match with no stipulation ? THIS was their match history before the WM XXV encounter :

UNF 04 : *** 1/2*
RR 05 : **** 1/2*
NM 07 : *** 3/4*
NM 07 (LMS): ***** 1/4*
JD 08 (Cage): *****
ONS 08(LMS): *** 1/2*

Should have been Cena-Orton and Edge-HHH ..... But NOOOOOOOOOOO, we get a terrible Wrestlemania main event between two people who have historically sub-par main event chemistry with one another over the prior 5 years.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only HHH/Orton matches worth watching at the NM 07 LMS and the Raw 09 LMS (it was in 09, right?).

Didn't HBK and Jericho have a LMS match on Raw at some point too btw?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree it should have been Cena/Orton at WM25 but Jeff should have finally went over HHH at WM25 for the WWE Title imo. At least, that's what I wanted.

Cal, Orton/HHH from Raw April '08 was a solid TV match. The one when Regal turned off the lights!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I barely remember the actual match, just the whole Regal shit that got sooo much fucking heat. If only Regal didn't fail the wellness policy at the time .


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ! More :hhh talk!
> 
> 
> vs Orton I : *** 3/4*
> ...


Thanks, sounds awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Only HHH/Orton matches worth watching at the NM 07 LMS and the Raw 09 LMS (it was in 09, right?).


I don't know about that. I've liked their regular match at Unforgiven 04 and might enjoy a rewatch of RR 05. I also liked their cage match at Judgment Day 08. And of course, the triple threat at Wrestlemania 24. The NM LMS is still their best.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I find all their other singles matches to be dull as fuck. Especially that cage lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

As individual matches in themselves, the HHH-Orton series isn't bad at all, it's just when put in context they're absolutely terrible. Let me try and explain what I mean by that : if two random wrestlers went out in the middle of a PPV and wrestled a *** 1/2* - *** 3/4 * match, I'd be like "yeah, that match was decent" , or if they went head to head on TV and put out those matches, it would be okay. However, these two are put in consistent MAIN EVENT matches where I believe a higher standard than ***** should be expected. In order for a main event match to be satisfying for me, it has to be atleast **** 1/4* or even ***** depending on what happens before and after the match. Now, take a **** 1/4* match and put it in the middle of the card... It goes up ALOT more in value in context to an entire show, which is where HHH-Orton fails for me. Consistently MEH matches in the main event = consistently sub par work for the most part. Does anybody here actually get what I'm saying or am I going completely insane ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I find all their other singles matches to be dull as fuck. Especially that cage lol.


I enjoyed that cage match, don't know why nobody else likes it 'cept me. I also don't think their WM25 match is as bad as most make it out to be. Is it subpar? You're damn right! But it's not "worst main event ever!!!" caliber as many have made it out to be. What kills it specially is the dead crowd. They were not that dead for the triple threat that took place after HBK/Taker so I don't know what killed them.



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> As individual matches in themselves, the HHH-Orton series isn't bad at all, it's just when put in context they're absolutely terrible. Let me try and explain what I mean by that : if two random wrestlers went out in the middle of a PPV and wrestled a *** 1/2* - *** 3/4 * match, I'd be like "yeah, that match was decent" , or if they went head to head on TV and put out those matches, it would be okay. However, these two are put in consistent MAIN EVENT matches where I believe a higher standard than ***** should be expected. In order for a main event match to be satisfying for me, it has to be atleast **** 1/4* or even ***** depending on what happens before and after the match. Now, take a **** 1/4* match and put it in the middle of the card... It goes up ALOT more in value in context to an entire show, which is where HHH-Orton fails for me. Consistently MEH matches in the main event = consistently sub par work for the most part. Does anybody here actually get what I'm saying or am I going completely insane ?


I totally understand what you mean. If it was anybody else, the standards would have been low meaning the matches would have been acceptable but when you have HHH and Orton, two of the best main event workers in the past decade, it'll feel underwhelming.


----------



## Sentz12000 (Feb 28, 2012)

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine who only started watching wrestling in 2011 after we all went to Wrestlemania 27 and he mentioned something I found very interesting. Not only have their been some excellent matches over the past year and a half, but he had said that his absolute favorite match was CM Punk vs. John Cena at Money in the Bank ’11. I tried to counter and say how it was a great match with probably the best build in a long time, but he tried to coax me into watching it one more time. So after the NY/SF football game on Sunday, we popped in the DVD and watched Punk-Cena again. And you know what? I’ll have to agree with the match’s greatness, ranking it in my top 5. While other matches may have been better from a technical standpoint, very few matches were as highly anticipated or unpredictable as that match was. Even listening to Daniel Bryan on the BITW documentary, it was so refreshing to have a match where it could’ve very easily gone one way or the other. The big match feel that this match had and I’m talking about the pre-match promos that were the strongest in either man’s career, the uncertainty regarding Punk’s real-life contract, the segments all throughout the night of Money in the Bank where they were building the match, it was just excellent. The hometown crowd of CM Punk, reacting to every single move he did and just setting up the absolute perfect atmosphere. Cena and Punk putting on a 30 minute clinic with a very clear and concise beginning-middle-ending sequence of events the entire way through. The little meticulous details about the match that can give it even more credibility, whether it is the submission reversals or near falls. The brilliant ending that tied in every single rumored ending, whether it was a ‘Chicago Screwjob’ or Del Rio cashing in his briefcase. The commentary was superb all match, not at any point being annoying and although fans usually wish JR was on commentary for every big match, Cole really sold the importance throughout the entire match of the WWE title staying in the WWE and not leaving the company with CM Punk. Everything about this match was perfect, from the storyline to the build up to the match. Anybody agree that this is one of the top 5-10 WWE matches of all-time?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't think Cena/Punk is a top 10 WWE match ever, but it's not a terribly unpopular opinion. 

Watched some 2000s Michaels recently, including the LMS with HHH that was brought up yesterday. Yeah.....it wasn't good. Then I watched the HIAC.........

......

.

THEN I watched the match at Taboo Tuesday, and that one was actually pretty good. Definitely the best match they had post-2003. I don't remember what people think of this - like it? Hate it? Haven't seen it? Sexyness?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> THEN I watched the match at Taboo Tuesday, and that one was actually pretty good. Definitely the best match they had post-2003. I don't remember what people think of this - like it? Hate it? Haven't seen it? Sexyness?


I am about to reach Taboo Tuesday very soon, so I haven't seen it yet but will give my opinion soon.

The HIAC match, though, is fucking terrible. If there's one match that personifies boring, this must be it. Which says a lot when Big Show/Alberto del Rio happened last year around this time and it was more entertaining reading the Raw thread with people saying "FUCK this match is so boring!" than watching the match itself.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Taboo Tuesday match is their second best imo after the December Raw 03 match. Said it not too long ago when HHH/HBK talk surfaced, but its no coincidence their two best matches are the matches on a smaller setting with no gimmick attached and them just wrestling a simple match without trying to make the feud grander and on some other level.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips is a beast in LMS matches. So many great ones including the GOAT LMS vs Jericho imo. Cena/Umaga is right behind it. Both awesome, _awesome_ matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Taboo Tuesday match is their second best imo after the December Raw 03 match. Said it not too long ago when HHH/HBK talk surfaced, but its no coincidence their two best matches are the matches on a smaller setting with no gimmick attached and them just wrestling a simple match without trying to make the feud grander and on some other level.


Watched the 12/03 recently too, and it doesn't hold up as great, but it's good. Their 1996 match is a normal match and is pretty awesome. I've always liked SummerSlam 02 as well.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

May have to watch the 1996 match again then.

Ah Summerslam, there are good elements to it but I just don't like how the match seems to be broken into two halves, think my long affiliated stance is the 1st half seems like the first match in a long feud (setting the initial story about HBK having to prove himself) but then the 2nd half of the match feels like a dramatic feud ender. I don't even actually mind the HBK nip up since I think it adds to the story of him being broken down and having to prove he can overcome the ring rust and be 'the man' again, but I don't like how he goes from looking vulnerable and sympathetic to some deranged lunatic in the space of 10 minutes. 

Its still their 3rd best match to me, since the 3 Stages of Hell (boy that name gets more appropriate the more I think about it) is utter dogshit, the Rumble LMS match isn't very good and the HIAC is probably the definition of them trying too hard to make the match 'Epic' rather than letting it develop naturally.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> May have to watch the 1996 match again then.
> 
> Ah Summerslam, there are good elements to it but I just don't like how the match seems to be broken into two halves, *think my long affiliated stance is the 1st half seems like the first match in a long feud (setting the initial story about HBK having to prove himself) but then the 2nd half of the match feels like a dramatic feud ender*. I don't even actually mind the HBK nip up since I think it adds to the story of him being broken down and having to prove he can overcome the ring rust and be 'the man' again, but I don't like how he goes from looking vulnerable and sympathetic to some deranged lunatic in the space of 10 minutes.


This is actually most likely what they were going for since Shawn was only supposed to come back to have that one match. Nobody thought he would come back and stay for as long as he did. It was supposed to be that one match and that was it so when you think of it that way, your analysis/interpretation of the match makes a lot of sense lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Never actually knew about that tbh, still doesn't make me like it any more though 

I will say however, the finish is perfect.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah. I think both of them have said it themselves in interviews over the years. I love the match personally. Big HHH mark, big HBK mark, what's not to like lol? Their best match together though is obviously their epic clash over the European Title. ************ all the way.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Is that the one where Michaels works over HHH's nose? If so yeah I watched that and it was a pure spectacle.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> As individual matches in themselves, the HHH-Orton series isn't bad at all, it's just when put in context they're absolutely terrible. Let me try and explain what I mean by that : if two random wrestlers went out in the middle of a PPV and wrestled a *** 1/2* - *** 3/4 * match, I'd be like "yeah, that match was decent" , or if they went head to head on TV and put out those matches, it would be okay. However, these two are put in consistent MAIN EVENT matches where I believe a higher standard than ***** should be expected. In order for a main event match to be satisfying for me, it has to be atleast **** 1/4* or even ***** depending on what happens before and after the match. Now, take a **** 1/4* match and put it in the middle of the card... It goes up ALOT more in value in context to an entire show, which is where HHH-Orton fails for me. Consistently MEH matches in the main event = consistently sub par work for the most part. Does anybody here actually get what I'm saying or am I going completely insane ?


I can agree with this. Placement on the card determines expectations to some degree. Of course if you put Bryan and Ziggler against each other in the middle of a PPV and they only delivered **1/2, that would be considered terrible, so it also comes down to the performers. But generally you'd expect a main event match to be a great match, where a match in the middle of the card with no story and randomly put together, you'd be okay with them not being anything spectacular and are just hoping the match isn't shit.

In any event, Orton/HHH is probably the worst series of matches for two main eventers ever. Here's how I rate them:

UNF 04 : **1/4
Raw 1/3/05: **1/4
RR 05 : **3/4
NM 07 : **
NM 07 (LMS): ****
JD 08 (Cage): **1/2
ONS 08(LMS): **1/4
WM25: **1/2
The Bash: *1/2
Raw LMS 2009 (?): ***

Just out of their singles matches, and only two are *** and more. Just severely disappointing. For some reason Orton and HHH just could never really click besides in LMS matches. The ONS one probably would've been higher if it wasn't ended so prematurely. But in singles matches they were brutal with what you'd expect, going back to what K1ngofK1ngs said.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forgot the Euro title match. Don't know how; it's definitely their best match and it's not even close.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao :lmao

RUNNIN DEM ROPES


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If HHH had more matches where his nose was the target of his opponent's offence I'd probably like him about 60% more.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

60% of Hunter's powers are stored in his nose. The other 40% is in his hair. He cut his hair. OH NOEZ...NOEZ...NOSE...you get it? 8*D


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If I don't laugh will I be banned from the thread


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You won't be banned...you'll be buried gangnam Hunter style :hhh


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That sounds more dirty than I'm guessing was intended.

Its probably the Hunter face after the post...just looks wrong.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You just out-buried me and you aren't even a Trips mark. Dammit!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> :lmao :lmao
> 
> RUNNIN DEM ROPES


Greatest match of all time. HBK carryin' his boy HHH... and I'm not joking. HBK carried HHH in that video.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H vs Randy Orton matches suck unless they're Last Man Standing.

ok, enough of DUR GAME talk for one day.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm pretty sure every other page in here is completely HHH related lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Change of discussion...

What are your favorite steel cage matches?

I've watched plenty and can't quickly come up with any specific favorites. I love the stipulation, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz said:


> I'm pretty sure every other page in here is completely HHH related lol.


boo.

Matt Hardy vs Edge @ Unforgiven '05 rules. Always been a strong supporter of Orton vs Flair from Taboo Tuesday '04.

Can't remember too many that stick out besides those. Jericho had a couple in 2008 that were pretty good based on memory. vs Punk & Batista.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Remember a HHH/Flair cage match in 05 that I used to think was great. Punk/Hardy was great too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bob Backlund vs Sgt Slaughter 1981

Steamboat & Youngblood vs Slaughter and Kernodle Final Conflict 1983

Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard I QUIT Steel Cage Match Starrcade 1985

Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton Great American Bash 1986

Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol 1987

Hulk Hogan vs Ric Flair Halloween Havoc 1994

Samoa Joe vs Jay Briscoe ROH 2003

Matt Hardy vs Edge Unforgiven 2005

HHH vs Ric Flair Taboo Tuesday 2005

CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy Smackdown 2009

There are a few more which are in the back of my head that I'll remember tomorrow most likely. If the WarGames matches count as Steel Cage matches then 1992 and 1994 would be in my list, fucking tremendous matches. I'd also have the ROH vs CZW Cage of Death from Death before Dishonour if we're counting multi-man tags. If we're also including ROH singles Cage matches, Jacobs vs Whitmer is pretty notorious, but truth be told its been forever since I saw it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlund/Slaughter 1981 is GOAT cage for me. Still need to watch Magnum/Tully and Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernodle though. Love HHH/Flair a ton too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Backlund/Slaughter 1981 is GOAT cage for me.




The strut Backlund has as he leaves the ring whilst basking in the ovation of the crowd makes it my favourite 'escape' in Cage match history. There's just something so brilliant about him walking stride by stride with his hand almost waving to the fans with that big cheesy grin on his face.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love how he goes back to boot Slaughter one more time before leaving too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Remember a HHH/Flair cage match in 05 that I used to think was great. Punk/Hardy was great too.


I'm awful for not mentioning those (especially the Punk/Hardy one).

Didn't even think of old school cages either. FUCK. Tully/Magnum is legit as hell. Probably my favorite cage tbh. Someone give me a link to Backlund vs Slaughter. That's a feud I've been desperately trying to see all of.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge/Hardy Unforgiven 05 gets the vote from me for GOAT cage.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Change of discussion...
> 
> What are your favorite steel cage matches?
> 
> I've watched plenty and can't quickly come up with any specific favorites. I love the stipulation, though.


Matt Hardy vs Edge from Unforgiven 2005 is my personal favorite. The storytelling in that match is great and the action is just as good. Lots of blood which was needed for their heated feud, Lita getting involved, and Hardy's leg drop from the top of the cage to end it was one of the greatest things I've seen in wrestling. Hardy was at his peak during this time, he didn't get any higher than his feud with Edge and this feud helped Edge on his rise to the top.

Other cage matches I like are: Chris Jericho vs Christian on RAW, Edge vs Cena on RAW, Randy Orton vs Ric Flair from Taboo Tuesday.. 

All those matches listed can be found on the greatest steel cage matches DVD (which I have).
http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-greatest-cage-matches-all-time-dvd-matches/13308/



The Sandrone said:


> Edge/Hardy Unforgiven 05 gets the vote from me for GOAT cage.


(Y)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Favorite Cage Matches: 

Blanchard/Magnum Starrcade '85 (GOAT)

Flair/Garvin Starrcade '87

Steamboat & Youngblood/Slaughter & Kernodle Final Conflict '82 (the entire match is on Youtube, watch it!)

Edge/Hardy Unforgiven '05

HHH/Flair TT 05 

Flair/Morton GAB 86 are up there too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Magnum/Tully or the Final Conflict for the best cage match. If I had to guess which I'd like more on a re-watch, I'd put money on Magnum/Tully.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Flair/Morton was so good the first time I watched I was so into the action it took a while to realize there was no commentary. I thought they worked the injury into the match well too. Some good visuals of the crimson mask and plenty of intensity.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh crap yeah thanks for reminding me, I forgot Flair/Morton. Probably Flair at his most purely EVIL. That could be #2 for cages and if not it's definitely #3. #4 at absolute absolute absolute minimum. People need to watch Flair/Dusty as well.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Flair is just awesome in cage matches. His Halloween Havoc match with Hogan in 1994 was pure fun ride to watch. Flair/Orton from Taboo Tuesday 04 was a bit short for me but really good. The handshake at the end was a great moment.

However, I always thought the highly acclaimed Flair/Race Starrcade '83 was good too but not one of the greatest cage matches ever.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah Race/Flair isn't THAT good. They have way better matches without any stipulations (though I'm pretty sure they bleed and brawl just the same).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's funny that we started talking about Cage Matches, as I was in the middle of compiling a list of all the aired Cage matches in WWE history to make a top 25.. Off the top of my head the GOAT Cage match is Trips-Flair TT 05 with a few coming very, very close. That's probably going to change as I get deeper into this however. I know one thing for certain, it takes a fucking LONGGG time to just compile a list of all the aired cage matches, let alone actually WATCH them (have a majority of them already rated in notepad anyways  so that helps)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If we're talking WWE only then I think Backlund/Slaughter destroys everything pretty easily. I can't think of any that come close. Hardy/Edge is one of those matches I know is great, but I don't see "IT" in it. Another "I'll Watch It Again Sometime" match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Pfft, everyone knows Angle/Benoit is the GOAT WWE Cage Match. :kurt

You can take a look at Hogan/Orndorff SNME 87, Savage/DiBiase MSG 88, Steiners/Money Inc Summerslam Spectacular 8/23/93, and Christian/Jericho Raw 5/10/04 for your list.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

WWE dont know how to book cage matches

too many mixed signals. I mean, i dont get it? Is the point of the cage to keep one of them from running away so they can get an ass kicking? Is the point of two guys who hate each other? Is it for one of them run? Whats with the fucking door too?

I mean, I dont get it. And adding a title into the mix just makes shit more confusing


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, most of the best cage matches happened in NWA and territories mostly because of the Escape the Cage stuff. I don't mind it all the time, but in a hate feud you should be pinning a guy after beating the shit out of them instead of creating drama by doing the Get Down stuff on top of the cage. I think Bret v Owen from SummerSlam took a bigger blow because of those rules more than any other match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I get what you're saying as far as the cage match story goes especially with a personal feud. I liked at Extreme Rules '10 how Edge refused to escape the cage until he punished Jericho mercilessly because the story was Edge wanted Jericho to feel his pain and be injured in a match. Not just winning the match but surviving the pain.

Btw, Taker/Batista SD 07, Edge/Angle SD 02, and Punk/Hardy SD 8/28/09 are underrated cage matches imo. Jericho/Punk Raw, Jericho/Batista Raw 08, and Taker/Show SD 08 are all good TV Cage matches too.

Edit - The Flair/Michaels vs. Edge & Edgeheads Handicap Cage Match SD08 and Edge & Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy & Rey Mysterio (Punk special ref) SD 09 were also forgotten yet really good.

Just brainstorming for ya KOK.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There's actually a lot of good cage matches from WWF/E that sort of escape memory for a bit. I like all of the Bret/Yokos a lot, same with the Hogan/Bossmans. Backlund had a really good one with somebody other than Slaughter but I can't remember who, I think it was Pat Patterson. Oooh Henry v Bryan from last year was great. There's Eddie/JBL and Eddie/Rey too but I didn't like them as much as most.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Does anyone remember the Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels cage match being any good? I saw it ages ago and I know it wasn't great but maybe still worth a watch (re-watch).


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Just watched Punk/Cena from MITB 2011. First match I've watched in full in months. Still an incredible watch. Might get back into some Bret Hart later.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Redead said:


> WWE dont know how to book cage matches
> 
> too many mixed signals. I mean, i dont get it? Is the point of the cage to keep one of them from running away so they can get an ass kicking? Is the point of two guys who hate each other? Is it for one of them run? Whats with the fucking door too?
> 
> I mean, I dont get it. And adding a title into the mix just makes shit more confusing


I thought about this as i was watching the WWE Greatest Cage Matches dvd.

You don't want the heel to run away but you not only don't put a roof on the cage but you give him added incentive to run away by giving him the victory via escaping the cage.
Two wrestlers hate each other so much, that through-out the match they'll try to escape the cage and win.



Yeah1993 said:


> I don't mind it all the time, but in a hate feud you should be pinning a guy after beating the shit out of them instead of creating drama by doing the Get Down stuff on top of the cage. *I think Bret v Owen from SummerSlam took a bigger blow because of those rules more than any other match.*


Am i crazy or was there a point in the match where they repeatedly kept climbing up the cage together and falling ?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

yes. thats the one

it got annoying. still a fun match though


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think the basic story of Bret/Owen cage match was "the Hart family would be kept out" of this decisive encounter between the brothers. So that means no interference from Bulldog, Anvil, Bruce, etc. Just Bret and Owen proving once again who the better wrestler is by not only punishing your brother in the steel cage but also besting him by having the fortitude to endure the match and escape the cage. I think they sold the struggle they had as competitors and as brothers who despised each other with as they had a tug-of-war at the cage door or fought at the top of the cage before crashing and burning. Sure they had several moments doing this but I feel they did a fantastic performance in what felt like a 30+ minute battle. A SummerSlam classic - **** 1/2

Also, KOK you will probably enjoy this - http://mover.uz/watch/pGLVK9hj/


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Watched the Punk doc, Awesome.
don't watch alot of them but that one's at the top along with the R&FofECW.

Are they still going through with the nWo dvd ?
They don't have Hall, Hogan & Bishoff.



Redead said:


> yes. thats the one
> 
> it got annoying. still a fun match though


It got tedious for me at that point, thought it was a good match.
The battle to escape the cage is something i never look forward to in a cage match, why WWE throws the match out randomly i'll never know.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*The Miz vs. Kofi Kingston – WWE Main Event 10/17/2012*

Both Kofi and Miz had some solid promos before and after the match and the superstar profile video packages are so well done on these shows every week. They also make the match and superstars feel more important and are one of my favorite aspects of “Main Event” along with the TV matches that receive adequate time every week. This is the best “Main Event” match so far. Well, the show's only been on air three weeks but I really enjoyed this TV match. Kofi took a sick dive to Miz from the inside of the ring to the floor. Really liked the pace of this match with the near-falls and they included a smart callback spot to the devastating Trouble In Paradise finish from Raw. Kofi and Miz had some really good transitions and pacing here. That exchange with Kofi flipping over the steps and flying back with a clothesline was cool. Miz looked good too giving Kofi multiple kicks to the head during the match as payback for his kick to the head from Kofi. I liked how feared TIP was in this match and that Kofi put Miz away with it again to win the IC Title. ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got Main Event recorded. Might watch. Your review put over the match nicely, however when I see the end result (***) I can't help but really...scoff it off. Kofi Kingston matches can be solid, but that's it. I really have yet to see the guy in a match that really "hit the mark". For all of his matches vs Dolph Ziggler none were "great". Simply good. Then some sucked. It's why I really lost interest in the guy. Doesn't matter who he's worked vs, it never reaches that higher level past solid or good. Not to mention his lack of consistency lately. He used to have a nice slew of decent/fun matches weekly back in 09 - 10, but that ship as sailed.

Now I'm not questioning that match, it's the state of Kofi Kingston in general. Either push the guy and hope he can reach the next level or stop with the useless transition reigns for a guy who's really shown he isn't all that good.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon - WWF Intercontinetal Championship - Ladder Match - WWF Summerslam 1995 8/27/1995*
This was one of my favorite matches as a kid and I'm glad it holds up. One of the worst things to do is to watch a match from your childhood that you absolutely love and realize it's horseshit now. Both guys were great in this. Even though they are both faces, Ramon is the heel of match in the sense that he has the main control segment. His offense feels lifeless at first, but he gets more dickish and heel it's up more as the match goes on. One spot I love is where Razor lightly shoves the ladder onto HBK's leg with a evil grin across his face. This combined with HBK's ability to sell an injury in way that gets him a lot of sympathy from the crowd makes for a fantastic character dynamic. The ending is shitty because it felt like they were laying around way too much and they managed to blow the finishing spot not once but two times. Still, it's a fantastic ladder match with strong character dynamics and spots that have held up pretty nicely considering it's a 17 year old match.
*★★★★¼*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, still love that match myself despite the fact they were not allowed to use the ladder as a weapon in that one, still prefer WM10 myself tbh though.

17 years ago already, crikey where the fuck does the time go. I always think of 90's matches as 'just a few years ago' still lol, not nearly 20.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*Triple H vs The Rock - WWF Intercontinental Championship - Ladder Match - WWF Summerslam 1998 8/30/1998*
Pretty dull to be honest. The beginning portion of the match features some good legwork and selling but it never goes anywhere. This match also falls victim to bad timing. For example, Rocky would be climbing at the ladder and realize Hunter isn't getting up yet and he has take his sweet-ass time climbing the ladder. It happens a lot and it just looks awkward. The majority of the spots here weren't at all innovative considering the other ladder matches that took place around this time. The baseball slide and the rebound spot was something I hadn't seen done before that but that's it.
*★★¼*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Can't believe I forgot Henry/Bryan from 2011 in the best Cage matches discussion. Probably my favourite match of the year.



Redead said:


> WWE dont know how to book cage matches
> 
> too many mixed signals. I mean, i dont get it? Is the point of the cage to keep one of them from running away so they can get an ass kicking? Is the point of two guys who hate each other? Is it for one of them run? Whats with the fucking door too?
> 
> I mean, I dont get it. And adding a title into the mix just makes shit more confusing


THANK YOU.

I can't tell you how stupid GMs look when they book a Cage match under the premise that 'the champion has been ducking the challenger and has to put up or shut up'...only to then book a match where one of the 3 ways to win is by....escaping from your opponent.

The escape via the door is even more retarded for 3 reasons:

1. It removes any credibility the Cage has in terms of stopping interference. If the GM doesn't ban a stable/faction from ringside, all one guy has to do is assault the ref holding the key and unlock the Cage, in some cases the door remains unlocked throughout the match so again all a guy has to do is get past the ref and he can interfere.

2. If you can walk out of the door to escape, then the cage is pretty much pointless. At least if the only way to escape is via climbing the cage, then at least it serves a purpose on top of being used as a weapon and serving as the potential for a dangerous fall. When you make it possible for a guy to not have to climb the cage, then you really have to question what purpose the Cage actually has.

3. WHY DO PEOPLE GO THROUGH THE DOOR AND THEN LATER CLIMB THE CAGE JUST TO SET UP A SPOT? Its unbelievable how many wrestlers will switch between going out over the cage and then going via the door, all to set up a spot. It just defies logic and whilst wrestling as a whole requires the suspension of some disbelief, Cage matches under this logic just take it too far.

A Cage match to me should just be two guys locked inside the cage, only way to win is pinfall/submission and really they just beat the shit out of each other until the finish. By all means the heel can still attempt to climb out of the cage to escape the beating, even though it won't win him the match (Hogan vs Flair for example), but the finish will come with one guy finally beating the other with no shenanigans involved.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus said:


> *Triple H vs The Rock - WWF Intercontinental Championship - Ladder Match - WWF Summerslam 1998 8/30/1998*
> Pretty dull to be honest. The beginning portion of the match features some good legwork and selling but it never goes anywhere. This match also falls victim to bad timing. For example, Rocky would be climbing at the ladder and realize Hunter isn't getting up yet and he has take his sweet-ass time climbing the ladder. It happens a lot and it just looks awkward. The majority of the spots here weren't at all innovative considering the other ladder matches that took place around this time. The baseball slide and the rebound spot was something I hadn't seen done before that but that's it.
> *★★¼*


Yes! Someone that agrees with me on the shittyness of this ladder match. It ain't good. Just like the rest of the event too tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I gave HHH/Rock ***. Don't really dislike it, per say. It is what it is. Wouldn't expect those two guys to really give an ultra fascinating Ladder match anyways. It was better than their 2/3 falls match from Fully Loaded the month prior.

what a pop for game when he pulls the championship down tho. (back to HHH talk. fuck)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Backlund had a really good one with somebody other than Slaughter but I can't remember who, I think it was Pat Patterson.


You're not thinking Backlund/Hansen are you? 







You know what match I was incredibly underwhelmed by? Sammartino/Zbyszko cage match from Shea Stadium. For YEARS I heard about how classic this match was and it just didn't strike me as something great. I understand the build was very heated for this personal rivalry but I didn't feel the intensity of this blood feud as I watched the match.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Redead said:


> WWE dont know how to book cage matches
> 
> too many mixed signals. I mean, i dont get it? Is the point of the cage to keep one of them from running away so they can get an ass kicking? Is the point of two guys who hate each other? Is it for one of them run? Whats with the fucking door too?
> 
> I mean, I dont get it. And adding a title into the mix just makes shit more confusing


Adding a title to the mix makes it better I think because then the face at least has an excuse to run away. If it's a blood feud then a cage match really doesn't make that much sense since a lot of time is spent trying to run away. And yes, I hate the door. 

Some times the matches can work with the escape aspect but other times it's totally unnecessary. I wish they would pick and chose when to make an escape a win because there are times when it's great and times when it hurts the match,



Clique said:


> Does anyone remember the Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels cage match being any good? I saw it ages ago and I know it wasn't great but maybe still worth a watch (re-watch).


I watched it a while ago and I didn't think it was all that great. Raven was on commentary if I remember and he drove me insane with how annoying he was. I didn't know it was him until I posted a review in this thread saying how much I hated the guy on commentary and then everyone told me I was talking about Raven. Still stand by what I said though, he was really annoying.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think steel cage matches should only be won via climbing your way out of it. Get rid of the door or make it like the barber wire match between Show/JBL so it's locked with steel chain. I don't really look so deep into it and go "They hate each other? They should only destroy each other instead of escaping!". Plus, for cowardly heels, the escaping option only adds to it as they will try to get away from the face.

Some fav cage matches:
- Angle/Benoit
- Orton/Flair
- Henry/Bryan
- Orton/Christian
- HHH/Orton
- JBL/Benoit
- Batista/Undertaker
- Edge/Cena
- Rock/Benoit

I have not seen some others like Edge/Matt Hardy and any Jericho cage match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Edge vs Chris Benoit (Steel Cage) : Raw 2004*

This was supposed to be HHH vs Benoit, but HHH faked an injury and Edge just so happened to piss Benoit off so here we are. Finally, we get a cage match where the face doesn't try to escape and instead sticks around to just beat down Edge all over the ring. Benoit can escape at one point but chooses to just utilize the diving headbutt instead, again staying to torture Edge. Edge gets some pretty good offense, busting Benoit up (over the commercial break nonetheless) , and tries constantly to pussy his way out of the cage throughout the match. Edge is a fringe main eventer on this point who just always gets screwed on his way to breaking through the glass ceiling... That trend continues in this match, as Edge is just about to win, but spears Benoit through the cage door for the win. Awesome ending, and this match plays to the strength of both characters. Looking forward to more of these Raw/SD cages.

**** 1/2*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I loved when Edge's character was going through that frustration of not getting the World Title match at Taboo Tuesday and how he lashed out at Benoit and Michaels. He was more unpredictable and very on edge and cagey (yes, pun) because of his obsession to get the gold. It made for a good build to him winning MITB at WrestleMania the next year.

Solid review and make sure you watch that Rock/HHH Cage Match I posted a link for your list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TV Cage Matches >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PPV Cage matches, ESPECIALLY this day and age. Something about them only having like, 10 minutes on TV for a cage match that makes them soo much better than 99% of the lengthy ones we get on PPV.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Completely agree that TV cage matches are better. Although I thoroughly enjoy Edge/Hardy.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Was it the Sheamus vs Cena cage match where the Nexus interfered and the ref on the outside threw the key into the audience?

Love that spot!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Yeah.

Upon looking for random early - mid WWE matches to watch atm, I stumbled upon reading about a match on the 8/10/04 edition of Smackdown. It was John Cena, Rob Van Dam, & Charlie Haas vs Booker T, Rene Dupree, & Luther Reigns in a "Summer Games Relay" match. Ok. I usually remember 99% of what I see with wrestling, but I have to ask does anyone remember what the hell that is? Can't find a video to watch it either. Don't know why, but I have to see it now.

Maybe I should go and find all of these forgotten, random gimmicks for fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> ^Yeah.
> 
> Upon looking for random early - mid WWE matches to watch atm, I stumbled upon reading about a match on the 8/10/04 edition of Smackdown. It was John Cena, Rob Van Dam, & Charlie Haas vs Booker T, Rene Dupree, & Luther Reigns in a "Summer Games Relay" match. Ok. I usually remember 99% of what I see with wrestling, but I have to ask does anyone remember what the hell that is? Can't find a video to watch it either. Don't know why, but I have to see it now.
> 
> Maybe I should go and find all of these forgotten, random gimmicks for fun.


I watched this episode about a week ago or two ago. A quick google search brought me this:

"_The rules here are simple. The "Summer Games Relay" is a six-man tag, sort of. The match starts with a member of each team in the ring with a five-minute time period. If a pinfall or submission doesn't happen, then the team that won a coin toss would get "the relay" and then switch to another team member. If there's not a decision by the end of the 'relay', the other team sends in the first member, and the rotation continues._"

The match itself is nothing worth watching, just like the Smackdown midcard tends to be in 2004.

Also random: I am watching the 18 October 04 episode of Raw right now and I just looked at today's date and realized that it's exactly 8 years since that day. Unintentional coincidence!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cheers for the info. Sounds stupid. Wonder if I watched it back then. Probably. I was hyped going into Summerslam '04.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not going to reveal what the match is but.... I just watched a STRONG candidate to top my list. The execution coupled with wonderful story and character developments, and the sheer brutality alone makes this OLD SCHOOL (subtle hint) cage match one of the best matches of it's era. Also watched a few more recent matches that I thought were all awesome as well... List might be up tomorrow depending on how fast I blow through all of these matches that I'm watching lately.....End of this weekend at the latest. I find it mindblowing how the cage match is probably the WWE's most used gimmick match, but it doesn't have that STANDOUT OMG CLASSIC that say.... Every other match type has (HIAC BB 97, WX X/SS 95 Ladder, HHH/Foley SF, HHH/Jericho LMS,HHH-Rock/Lesnar-Angle Ironman). For instance, I can name about 4 ladder matches(excluding MITB and TLC's) and 6 HIAC's that are better than the best cage match IMO, even though the cage has been used way more and for much longer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the most frequent like you said. That alone could be a sole fact behind why it doesn't have the power that some rarer gimmick matches do.

Watched Main Event. Miz vs Kofi got 15:28 to work with. Longest match on the program so far, yet, they didn't do much to make me care. Wasn't surprised. I liked the emphasis and the callback for the insane Trouble In Paradise on RAW. That was a nice touch. Rest of the match...eh. Felt like the same 'ol stuff we've seen them give us. Beyond done caring about Kofi ring and character wise. Miz isn't doing much in the ring for me at all this year too. At least Miz's promos were good. That's always been his strong side. Can't say the same for Kofi's post-match one. Generic face blah blah blah.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

- Guerrero/Angle 2 out of 3 falls (SD) was very good.
Guerrero went in ready to put on a pure match free of shenanigans, until the ref was out of view  . Someone was cheated out of a victory....but who ?

- Flair/Foley 2 out of 3 falls (Vengeance '06) was good.
Foley in the end had the crowd in seconds go from booing him to in complete and utter shock.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I thought Punk & Morrison did great at Vegneance 2007 despite them being thrown out there out of the blue cuz of the Benoit situation.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I always forget about that Foley/Flair stuff in '06 but I remember really enjoying it.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

I must be the only person not to purchase the Punk dvd, I am very selective with what dvds I buy, the question I ask myself is how much will I watch it rather than will it look good in my collection. I downloaded the doc and I didn't really enjoy it. I dont like the indy stuff at all, it looks cheap and embarrassing. Am I a bad wrestling fan? I mean I watch Lou Thesz and Jack Brisco matches for crying out loud but just cant get into Punk at all. Cant wait for Rock to kick his ass.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really like the I Quit match between Flair and Foley. Finally the moment Foley "quit" during a match.



musclehead said:


> I must be the only person not to purchase the Punk dvd, I am very selective with what dvds I buy, the question I ask myself is how much will I watch it rather than will it look good in my collection. I downloaded the doc and I didn't really enjoy it. I dont like the indy stuff at all, it looks cheap and embarrassing. Am I a bad wrestling fan? I mean I watch Lou Thesz and Jack Brisco matches for crying out loud but just cant get into Punk at all. Cant wait for Rock to kick his ass.


No, you're not the only one. Don't worry about it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley/Flair stuff in 06 was awesome fun. Love their I Quit match, though I was disappointed with the 2/3 falls match. They also had a pretty sick LMS match in TNA a couple of years back. Finish was stupid but aside from that it was good.

And not liking Punk? ZOMG U SUCKZ!!!

Seriously though, nothing wrong with you not liking someone just because loads of other people do. For example you mentioned Rock and how you hope he beats Punk, me personally I find The Rock to be about as GOAT as an actual goat. Not everyone likes the same stuff. You just have a better chance of giving your opinion in this thread than elsewhere on the forum as most of us here are nice and understanding  . Unless you give shitty reasons to back up your opinion (we've had some of those over the years lol) .

An underrated cage match of sorts... Victoria Vs Lita from Raw 03. Is this the only divas cage match in WWE? I know TNA have done a couple.


----------



## Chaos-In-Motion (Sep 15, 2012)

Just finished watching the CM Punk DVD. Holy shit, watching this has literally inspired me to chase some of my own dreams and make a few changes in my life. Cliche and cheesy it may sound, it's that inspirational to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I always forget about that Foley/Flair stuff in '06 but I remember really enjoying it.


BLEED YOU SON OF A BITCH


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:argh:

It's probably because I don't own Vengeance '06 and rarely watch anything off Summerslam '06.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
You should own Mick Foley's "Greatest Hits & Misses" DVD (Hardcore Edition). It has a great match list including the I Quit match with Flair; plus some of Foley's best promos in ECW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair says that to Foley during the Summerslam '06 match. It rules. Rewatch the Summerslam match plz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> BLEED YOU SON OF A BITCH


Doesn't Flair also say "I'LL TEAR YOUR CUNT OUT!" or something? lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haha. To Melina, probably. I know he calls her a bitch. And it was LOUD. If the cunt line happened it was cut from the DVD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> ^
> You should own Mick Foley's "Greatest Hits & Misses" DVD (Hardcore Edition). It has a great match list including the I Quit match with Flair; plus some of Foley's best promos in ECW.


Yeah, fuck, I need to get that. I can't imagine it costing much these days either. 

Goddammit I wish they would give Gabriel more time on TV. Tonight on SD they did Rhodes Scholars vs Kidd/Gabriel and it went like 3 minutes but could've owned if it went longer. Gabriel has had really solid Superstars matches with both of them and I recall a good Kidd/Sandow match too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't have the Hardcore Edition, but the original is just as phenomenal. That was the first WWE DVD set I ever got too. Mick's Anti-Hardcore promo is probably my favorite of all time.

The booking for Kidd & Gabriel is terrible. Two dynamic workers who can really do so much in that ring and they get reduced to nothing. Sure, working on Superstars allows them to get time, but 5 minute matches on RAW in turn for a push is a fair deal. Kidd got a MITB slot this year. Where did that lead him?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm honestly not even asking for too much out of Kidd/Gabriel as far as pushes are concerned. I just want to see them face guys like Bryan/Christian/Ziggler/Mysterio/Rhodes in competitive matches. We got to see Rhodes because of his Superstars stint this year but there's so many fun ten minute matches we can get out of Gabriel & Kidd.

I think Gabriel has become much better since he came back from injury.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gabriel got Hunico to the best match I've ever seen from him. Not merely in the WWE, but in general. Really, really good match they had earlier this year. That alone made me appreciate Gabriel's talents more than I already did. He gets a solid pop too. There is potential.

Yeah, I'll have to agree on the front of the use not having to lead towards any substantial push (I wouldn't mind it of course), but simply use them. In competitive fashion. Squashes vs Claudio on RAW worked. To nobody's surprise. Imagine if that would have gotten like around 7 minutes w/o a commerical? Total fun. I know that would be a lock for Gabriel or Kidd. They're that good. I'll gladly put them over for what they can do in the ring. They should be used as a modern day workhorse for the mainstream weekly tv shows a la the cruiserweight division back in WCW.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck, meant to add Claudio to that list. He's been a pretty refreshing US champion so far, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh he's awesome. Just about my favorite thing weekly is seeing him, if I'm being honest. Tied behind the reaction Danielson gets. He's sooooo over.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

He seriously is. My friend went to a Tenacious D concert over the Summer wearing his YES shirt and there was a huge chant going for it most of the night he said. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those YES/NO shirts are powerful. Always garner a reaction whenever I wear 'em too, haha.

Bryan Danielson - Transcending borders way past wrestling.

:yes


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Seriously. Everything he's touched has turned to gold. Made me remember how enjoyable KANE can be too.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*The Hardy Boyz: One Last Run (Fan Set)

Quick Thoughts: Overall a decent set as you kind of got a mix of everything on here; some meh matches some good matches and some great ones with a mix of TV and PPV with some milestones thrown in.*

The Hardys vs. FBI (ECW 06) – **
DX, Hardys & CM Punk vs. Rated RKO, Nitro, Helms & Knox (Survivor Series 06) – **1/2
The Hardys vs. MNM (December to Dismember 06) – ****
London & Kendrick vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. Regal & Taylor (Armageddon 06) – ****1/4
The Hardys vs. MNM (Royal Rumble 07) – ***1/4
Chris Benoit & The Hardys vs. MVP & MNM (No Way Out 07) – ***
World Tag Team Title Battle Royal (RAW 07) – **
The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch (Backlash 07) – ***
The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch (Judgment Day 07) – **1/4
The Hardys vs. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (One Night Stand 07) – ****1/4
The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch (Vengeance: Night of Champions 07) – **1/4
The Hardys vs. Edge & Big Show (Smackdown 09) – **1/2
The Hardys & John Morrison vs. CM Punk & Hart Dynasty (Smackdown 09) – ***1/2
The Hardys vs. Rob Van Dam & Mr. Anderson (TNA Impact 10) – **


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Seriously. Everything he's touched has turned to gold. Made me remember how enjoyable KANE can be too.


Man breathes success. KANE has been on point since returning imo. His tandem with Danielson is my favorite time since returning. No doubt. I AM THE TAG TEAM CHAMPION, haha. So good.



Matt_Yoda said:


> *The Hardy Boyz: One Last Run (Fan Set)
> 
> Quick Thoughts: Overall a decent set as you kind of got a mix of everything on here; some meh matches some good matches and some great ones with a mix of TV and PPV with some milestones thrown in.*
> 
> ...


Too low on those tags imo. JD '07 is fuzzy compared to the rest. I know it was pretty good. Backlash rules & Rumble, ahh. That was a genius tag team contest. Great psychology.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Edit: AGREED



Matt_Yoda said:


> *The Hardy Boyz: One Last Run (Fan Set)
> 
> Quick Thoughts: Overall a decent set as you kind of got a mix of everything on here; some meh matches some good matches and some great ones with a mix of TV and PPV with some milestones thrown in.*
> 
> ...


I liked the Murdoch/Cade vs Hardyz set a bit more than you. Have the first at ***1/2 and the other two at ***1/4 although on an enjoyment level I really liked the NOC one. I really love the ladder match against WGTT, I'd agree on that. Never seen that FBI match but I liked them as a team so I might give it a look. The MNM series was really solid too. And I'm looking up that Punk/Hart Dynasty vs Hardyz/Morrison match up immediately because I feel like I'd enjoy the fuck out of it.

Sounds like a fun set. 

Goddamn Murdoch/Cade was an awesome team.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2007 was their year. Really got a chance to shine. Pardon that night when Cena and CANDICE MICHELLE beat Cade/Murdoch/Umaga following NOC. Haha. That stirred up crap on here.

Rumble 07 ~ ****
Backlash 07 ~ ***3/4
Judgment Day 07 ~ ***1/4
ONS 07 ~ ***3/4
NOC ~ ***

I thought Hardys run in 2007 was a ton of fun. Glad they gave it to us.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> 2007 was their year. Really got a chance to shine. Pardon that night when Cena and CANDICE MICHELLE beat Cade/Murdoch/Umaga following NOC. Haha. That stirred up crap on here.
> 
> Rumble 07 ~ ****
> Backlash 07 ~ ***3/4
> ...


At the time I was such a mark for all three of them that the handicap match hit me a little too hard. :side:

Hardyt/MNM had such good chemistry.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Loved Cade and Murdoch. They were genuinely my most favorite tag team since I started watching wrestling. I've never been a fan of The Hardys, but I might check out those matches again just for Cade and Murdoch. There feud with The Hardys was probably the only thing that interested me in 2007, but then again 2007 was a pretty bad year... In my opinion wrestling started going downhill after 2006 ended.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

'07 had so many injuries spread through the year that it was hard for them to keep feuds going or even start them. There were some nice standout performances but as a whole not much could be done. Plus the Benoit stuff and the huge suspensions that followed after that first drug test in the Summer.

First half of '07 owned, imo. Then I just started caring about Umaga, Punk, Murdoch, Cade, Burke and Londrick. And obviously TAKER/TISTA and eventually Orton.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

You both are justified in your viewpoints I can't argue that. I don't know I thought the Rumble match with MNM was very well done but I just vastly preferred their DTD match, the Rumble match felt rushed. The Hardys vs. Cade & Murdoch at Judgment Day was alright I just couldn't get into it and it was really a step down from their Backlash match. The Night of Champions match was more the same as their Judgment Day match really. Still a solid line up of PPV matches that delivered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> At the time I was such a mark for all three of them that the handicap match hit me a little too hard. :side:
> 
> Hardyt/MNM had such good chemistry.


At least Umaga didn't get pinned by Candice. That's where you dodged the real bullet, haha.

Indeed they did. Really fed off each other nicely. Showed in the Hardy vs Nitro/Morrison matches too.



Nostalgia said:


> Loved Cade and Murdoch. They were genuinely my most favorite tag team since I started watching wrestling. I've never been a fan of The Hardys, but I might check out those matches again just for Cade and Murdoch. There feud with The Hardys was probably the only thing that interested me in 2007, but then again 2007 was a pretty bad year... In my opinion wrestling started going downhill after 2006 ended.


2009 ruled though. Some idiots only choose to remember Hornswoggle & Chavo crap + RAW celebrity GM nonsense, but on the other side of the coin you had Smackdown, ECW, & Superstars with quality bouts every week. RAW didn't shy away from some good bouts themselves that year. But, ECW & Smackdown. Holy crap they were great.

@Matt_Yoda: You probably thought the Rumble tag felt rushed since it was about 8 minutes less than the December 2 Dismember match was. They REALLY got all the freedom in the world to make that match come off strong.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> At least Umaga didn't get pinned by Candice. That's where you dodged the real bullet, haha.
> 
> Indeed they did. Really fed off each other nicely. Showed in the Hardy vs Nitro/Morrison matches too.
> 
> ...


I agree on '09. Smackdown & ECW were great and TED & CODY were getting time on Raw. Shame that didn't pan out for Ted (shut up McQueen & Cal :side. 2008 is a really underrated year too, imo. Really solid Edge/Taker feud, ECW had Henry/Hardy going, Jeff/Trips awesome feud, Cena/Batista, PUNK and a great WM and build to it. And let's not forget Batista/HBK.



> You both are justified in your viewpoints I can't argue that. I don't know I thought the Rumble match with MNM was very well done but I just vastly preferred their DTD match, the Rumble match felt rushed. The Hardys vs. Cade & Murdoch at Judgment Day was alright I just couldn't get into it and it was really a step down from their Backlash match. The Night of Champions match was more the same as their Judgment Day match really. Still a solid line up of PPV matches that delivered.


I really liked the D2D match. It's a little fuzzy because of the abomination that was the rest of that show, though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> '07 had so many injuries spread through the year that it was hard for them to keep feuds going or even start them. There were some nice standout performances but as a whole not much could be done. Plus the Benoit stuff and the huge suspensions that followed after that first drug test in the Summer.


Which lead to Khali becoming World Champion... 



Brye said:


> First half of '07 owned, imo. Then I just started caring about Umaga, Punk, Murdoch, Cade, Burke and Londrick. And obviously TAKER/TISTA and eventually Orton.


Cena/Umaga at Royal Rumble 2007 was awesome, and you may be right about the first half being good, but after the Benoit tragedy in June and Khali becoming World Champ in July the show went downhill fast.



Hailsabin said:


> 2009 ruled though. Some idiots only choose to remember Hornswoggle & Chavo crap + RAW celebrity GM nonsense, but on the other side of the coin you had Smackdown, ECW, & Superstars with quality bouts every week. RAW didn't shy away from some good bouts themselves that year. But, ECW & Smackdown. Holy crap they were great.


And that's where are opinions greatly differ because I hated 2009. So much so, to the point where I took a break from wrestling for a month because Orton was boring the crap out of me as the champion on RAW. Worst wrestling year imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Which lead to Khali becoming World Champion...
> 
> 
> 
> Cena/Umaga at Royal Rumble 2007 was awesome, and you may be right about the first half being good, but after the Benoit tragedy in June and Khali becoming World Champ in July the show went downhill fast.


Yeah, FUCK. Khali's reign was less than desirable.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I often stated my criticisms about WWE '08 but the beginning of that year was boss and ECW was my favorite show during the second half of the year. WWE really REALLY dropped the ball on Michaels/Batista they could've made for a great program IMO.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Matt_Yoda said:


> I often stated my criticisms about WWE '08 but the beginning of that year was boss and ECW was my favorite show during the second half of the year. WWE really REALLY dropped the ball on Michaels/Batista they could've made for a great program IMO.


I figure you would appreciate this. Went to an ECW houseshow in '08 that had a 20 minute Hardy/Henry match that absolutely owned. Was very similar to the No Mercy one except it featured COLIN DELANEY at the end.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2007 was a cursed year for WWE and I'm surprised they survived those DARK times. HHH, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, John Cena, Edge, Mr. Kennedy, Matt Hardy and plenty others were out at one point or another due to injury, then the Benoit tragedy fucked things up even worse followed by the suspensions afterwards. The year started off okay with the successful Wrestlemania but the summer is the darkest of them if there has ever been one. But there were still some good stuff after that such as Batista/Taker and Orton's title reign.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I agree on '09. Smackdown & ECW were great and TED & CODY were getting time on Raw. Shame that didn't pan out for Ted (shut up McQueen & Cal :side. 2008 is a really underrated year too, imo. Really solid Edge/Taker feud, ECW had Henry/Hardy going, Jeff/Trips awesome feud, Cena/Batista, PUNK and a great WM and build to it. And let's not forget Batista/HBK.QUOTE]
> 
> Orton vs Ted I in England :mark:
> 
> ...


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

LMAO @ Colin Delaney, damn I'm" getting nostalgic and it was only 4 years ago. Yeah it's no secret I loved WWECW during that time period and the Miz/Morrison team was really entertaining. There was a great ECW Fatal 4 Way match between Matt/Finlay/Miz/Morrison but it got taken off of YouTube sadly.

EDIT:
Man WWE pissed me off with the way they dropped the ball on Ted Jr., I don't know if that was the match but the facials and psychology in that match was excellent IMO. The fans were so behind Ted at that time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Orton vs Ted I in England :mark:
> 
> I still loved getting crap back then for thinking Cody was the better half of Legacy. Oh my how I was the only one who pegged that. CODY RHODES IS LEGIT. Ted is quality too, imo. Too bad he's been reduced down to jobber. Not to mention those injuries that plagued him all year till about NOC when he returned.
> 
> ...


Fuck, dunno how I forgot HBK/Jericho. That feud was great. Jericho's heel persona from that point on was amazing. And No Mercy from that year is one of my go-to shows to watch.

And while I'm a bigger mark for Ted, I sort of always saw a bit more in Cody. Ted's moveset is getting bigger and bigger each week, by the way. He's added in a suicide dive, flying knee and some other cool stuff. 



Matt_Yoda said:


> LMAO @ Colin Delaney, damn I'm" getting nostalgic and it was only 4 years ago. Yeah it's no secret I loved WWECW during that time period and the Miz/Morrison team was really entertaining. There was a great ECW Fatal 4 Way match between Matt/Finlay/Miz/Morrison but it got taken off of YouTube sadly.


I remember watching that match live. Believe it was in late July or August of the year. Good stuff. (Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I was another one of those who thought Ted would become bigger than Cody when they were in Legacy. Lot's of people seem to thought that as well from what I've read, but boy were we wrong...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Fuck, dunno how I forgot HBK/Jericho. That feud was great. Jericho's heel persona from that point on was amazing. And No Mercy from that year is one of my go-to shows to watch.
> 
> And while I'm a bigger mark for Ted, I sort of always saw a bit more in Cody. Ted's moveset is getting bigger and bigger each week, by the way. He's added in a suicide dive, flying knee and some other cool stuff.
> 
> ...


idk either bro. But you know it's the best. How could anyone rival that it wasn't the feud of 2008? So unbelievable. Jericho went to an even higher level thanks to that. Which was nuts since you thought the guy already hit his peak.

Suicide dive?! Radical. I gots to keep up with Superstars again. I did up until early April this year. So I'm backed up BIG TIME (WrestleMania 22 style?)

4 Way match owned upon my memory. Only saw it back when it aired. I was pulling for Finlay to win it.

I swear I really think I was the only guy who picked Cody. I know I couldn't have been...but the evidence so show proves that to be legit.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> @ Nostalgia: That's why I didn't mention RAW stuff overall for 2009. I mentioned everything else about the WWE being great. That was like Orton's best year too. So I don't agree w/that point.


In terms of success for Orton, then yeah it was his best year, but I just really wasn't a fan of him during that time. Personally I thought Orton's best years were from 2004-2006 when he was The Legend Killer. One good thing I can say about 2009 though is the Punk/Hardy feud. Very much enjoyed that and it was first time I became a Punk fan when he turned heel on Hardy.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Highest rated WWE Diva match ever?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For me, Trish Vs Mickie NYR 06 & WM 22. Both at ***1/2. Love em, and 2 very different matches as well. WM has the benefit of the awesome crowd and dirty ***** stuff from Mickie, NYR is technically the better "wrestling match".


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ether said:


> Highest rated WWE Diva match ever?


Trish/Stephanie No Way Out 2001 (More entertaining than it had any right to be)
Trish/Victoria/Jazz WrestleMania XIX
Trish/Lita Raw 12/6/2004
Trish/Mickie WrestleMania 22
Trish/Lita Unforgiven 2006 (Have to re-watch)
Melina/Mickie Backlash 2007

^
One of those

Trish and Jazz had some good matches at back-to-back Backlash events in 02 and 03. Trish/Victoria Raw Street Fight and Trish/Victoria/Jazz/Jackie Judgment Day 03 was fun.

TRISH

EDIT - Beth/Melina/Mickie JD 08 and Beth/Melina I Quit Match ONS 08


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Shame that WM22 got ruined by that fuck up at the end, crowd was hot the entire match too. Love Chicago


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ether said:


> Highest rated WWE Diva match ever?


Divas match? Well then KingCal nailed it with Trish/Mickie from WrestleMania 22. As far as womens' wrestling in the company as a whole goes then I'd say Blayze/Nakano from RAW in 4/3/95, Jumping Bomb Angels tag matches in the late 80's were quality iirc, and the Joshi elmination tag from Survivor Series '95 is worth a watch. There might be a gem I'm forgetting. Who knows.



Nostalgia said:


> In terms of success for Orton, then yeah it was his best year, but I just really wasn't a fan of him during that time. Personally I thought Orton's best years were from 2004-2006 when he was The Legend Killer. One good thing I can say about 2009 though is the Punk/Hardy feud. Very much enjoyed that and it was first time I became a Punk fan when he turned heel on Hardy.


Hey, that's your call man. I still think you should give the Smackdown, ECW, Superstars stuff a re-watch. That's just me. Like you mentioned, Punk/Hardy program was there. Among plenty of other good stuff on Smackdown that year.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Michelle McCool and Melina had some good PPV matches in 2009 too:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember wanting to punch those dumb broads for attempting that ddt spot on the barricade @ NOC '09. Could have killed each other. Michelle McCool is vastly overrated. All she does is kick people in the face.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I appreciated the effort those two put in the matches I posted. They did a lot more in those matches as far as match pacing, spots to transition the momentum, and built up Michelle's finisher than what you will see in the average Diva's title match today. They did take a chance or two like the DDT spot you mentioned as they tried hard to have a credible wrestling title match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I recall disliking the match despite the effort to make it something worth while. Never bought into McCool's work. Maybe I should give it a rewatch. It was tons better than the Mickie/Maryse match on the same show. I do know that. Good grief why did that match get nearly 9 minutes? Maryse only knew so many moves and she literally repeated her control phase from the beginning of the match at the end since she was so lost. Mickie felt apart at that time too.

Have that on DVD here atm. So I might make that my show to watch tonight. Give my two cents on it and all that jazz.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Micheals/Angle: 30 min IronMan match (RAW Homecoming) - very good
Benoit/Mysterio/Angle (SD) - very good
Benoit/Mysterio (sd) - very good
Benoit/Angle (Unforgiven '20) - very good, could've been great if it went longer.



Hailsabin said:


> It was tons better than the Mickie/Maryse match on the same show. I do know that. Good grief why did that match get nearly 9 minutes? *Maryse only knew so many moves and she literally repeated her control phase from the beginning of the match at the end since she was so lost*. Mickie felt apart at that time too.
> 
> Have that on DVD here atm. So I might make that my show to watch tonight. Give my two cents on it and all that jazz.


I was in a state of shock when i saw her do that.
While i didn't care for the divas at that point Maryse was definitely the channel changer of the division.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was mesmerizing. Like a trainwreck.

Maryse was still my favorite thing about the Divas from 2008 - 2010. What a character. That one night she grabbed Gail by the throat. The best.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I reviewed a shit load of women's PPV matches from that time period (07-09) earlier in this thread. I can't remember the rating I gave Melina/McCool's title match from NOC but I enjoyed it. There aren't a lot McCool fans but I liked her and thought she was a really good worker (though I vastly prefer her babyface work). Her & Maryse had a great title match on ECW back in 08. I also liked her match with Natalya from GAB. Didn't like her heel turn nor did I like LayCool.
____________________

*CM Punk goes to Wrestlemania!

Quick Thoughts: Punk put together a strong string of WM performances, they still hold up very well.*

CM Punk vs. Kennedy vs. Edge vs. Orton vs. Booker vs. Finlay vs. Matt vs. Jeff (Wrestlemania 23) – ****1/2
CM Punk vs. Kennedy vs. Jericho vs. MVP vs. Benjamin vs. Morrison vs. Carlito (Wrestlemania XXIV) – ****
CM Punk vs. Kane vs. Henry vs. Finlay vs. Benjamin vs. Kofi vs. MVP vs. Christian (Wrestlemania 25) – ***1/2
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI) – ***1/2
CM Punk vs. Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXVII) – ***3/4+
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) – ***1/2 (don’t shoot me)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What's people's thoughts Vengeance 2011?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Vengeance 11 was a fun PPV.

Cena/Del Rio after the ring had been destroyed was different and pretty unique. ***3/4
Punk&H/AwesomeTruth was okay, pretty standard tag team match. ***
Henry/Show was pretty decent before the ring broke **3/4

Can't remember anything else from the show tho lol.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I remember Rhodes/Orton being pretty good but overall, it was a pretty forgettable PPV for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember actually giving in and watching Vengeance on a stream (I normally avoid the shit out of streams because they mostly suck lol). Glad I did watch it live since seeing Show and Henry break the ring was awesome. Always liked their matches together, and this was no different. Could have been better if it went longer, but hey, the ring breaking was cool.

Cena/Del Rio wrestling with the broken ring was a great idea imo. Added something new that I've personally never seen before (has anyone ever wrestled a match anywhere else after the ring was broken? I know ropes have broken during matches and whatnot, but nothing like that to my knowledge). Match was actually good and fun, which surprised me since Del Rio is dull as fuck and Cena often just goes through the motions.

Sheamus/Christian had potential and was ok I guess for the 10 minutes it got, but fuck, Sheamus didn't give Christian a damn thing. Disappointing mainly.

Orton/Rhodes... I remember nothing about. I recall liking one of their matches, might have been this one.

Air Boom/Zig Zag Paddy Swagg was a super fun opener.

Jiz/Truth Vs HHH/Punk was bad. Fuck HHH for getting involved in the Punk thing. Fuck WWE for switching from Punk (the hottest thing in wrestling at the time...) to the shitty Jiz/Trush conspiracy bollacks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks guys, I remember the ring breaking and that was about it lol.


----------



## DenGal (Feb 10, 2009)

Can someone rate the famous

Vince and Shane vs Shawn and God

where JR says "THATS BULL SHIT"


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I actually thought Del Rio/Cena in the broken ring was a really fun match. Didn't like the Punk/Trips vs Awesome Truth match but the opening tag kinda owned. I remember liking Rhodes/Orton but not nearly as much as their no dq match from SD in November. Show/Henry was fun as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol @ "Jiz".

I don't remember Vengeance 2011 too well since I was completely beat and about to fall asleep when I watched it. But from what I remember:

Orton/Cody - ***1/4 (Not bad but I think they had a match on Smackdown which I enjoyed more)
HHH/Punk vs Moz/Truth - ** (didn't like it and I remember the bitching around here over Punk taking the pin :lmao "ZOMG CRIPPLE H BURIEZ PUNK!!!!")
Henry/Show - *** (Not as good as Survivor Series but still okay and the ring-break was pretty cool)
ADR/Cena - ***1/2 (Was good and pretty enjoyable. Plus I like how Cena STILL found a way to perform the 5 moves of doom. Got better when they went around the arena, though. Didn't make much sense for the Moz/Truth interference even though I understand what it set-up. Just hate how Moz/Truth got such a push as a team then when Truth got suspended, both turned to jobbers by early 2012.)


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

choke

i gotta ask

whats with the benoit sig


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Redead said:


> choke
> 
> i gotta ask
> 
> whats with the benoit sig


Yeah, what about it?

I'm a Benoit fan, there really is no deep story to it, really.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I lol'd in the "CM Punk punches fan" thread when Choke2Death's stated his biggest problem with the incident was Punk being morally wrong, when he has a child killer in his sig.....

Anyhow, thoughts on the Angle/Brock series? 

WM 19 ****1/4
Summerslam ****1/4
Iron man ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

jblvdx said:


> I lol'd in the "CM Punk punches fan" thread when Choke2Death's stated his biggest problem with the incident was Punk being morally wrong, when he has a child killer in his sig.....
> 
> Anyhow, thoughts on the Angle/Brock series?
> 
> ...


WM19 - ****1/2
SS - ****/12 (maybe ****3/4)

Still havnt gotten round to the Iron Match yet, and havnt seen their match in Japan from '07.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Lesnar:

WM - ****1/4
SS - *****
SD Iron Man - ****1/2


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, what about it?
> 
> I'm a Benoit fan, there really is no deep story to it, really.


so you think he didnt do it or he wasnt in the right state of mind or what?

also cal, do you walk around with those ratings memorised or have to keep looking them up?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Taboo Tuesday 2004:*

Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin - ***1/2
- A great opener with the fans voting Shelton for Jericho's opponent. A great back and forth match with Shelton finally winning the Intercontinental Championship.

Fulfill Your Fantasy - **

Kane vs Snitsky - **
- Pretty boring and lol @ the fake blood Kane is coughing up after the chair spot.

Eugene vs Eric Bischoff - *1/2
- Very short thankfully and this is the start of short-haired Bischoff! And big lol @ Coach wearing that goofy dress. :lmao

Chris Benoit/Edge vs La Resistance - **3/4
- Not better than their match in Montreal where La Resistance were cheered for the first time but still decent. This is used more as a prop to put Edge over as a heel (since he's gotten booed pretty bad leading up to this PPV). He walks out on Benoit after the obligatory "REF DIDNT SEE A TAG!!!!" spot but Benoit still fights his way to victory in what becomes a handicap match.

HHH vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/4
- Michaels does an excellent job selling the leg injury which HHH works on the entire match but outside of the end, it was not all that exciting to watch such a slow, one sided match. Much better than the shitty HIAC one they closed their feud with but still, I really wish fans had voted for Benoit since he and HHH always delivered in the ring. Edge further heels it up by costing HBK the title with a spear.

Randy Orton vs Ric Flair - ****
- Surprised this main evented over the title match. But yeah, it's superior in-ring so maybe it was a good decision. Both do a pretty good job in this steel cage match and Orton finally becomes the Legend Killer when he defeats Flair. Despite being face/heel, Orton still hugs Flair in the end and shows his respect after a very good match.

*Overall:* **1/2 out of ***** (A mixed bag on a whole. Starts off good then gets very boring for an entire hour until the tag match starts picking up where the IC match left off and then the show ends on a pretty good note save for the pillow fight with the diva search final contestants. Speaking of the diva search, thank God it's over at this point! By far the worst part of Raw 2004 along with Eugene hogging the main event spotlight throughout the summer with Benoit the champion playing second-fiddle.)



Redead said:


> so you think he didnt do it or he wasnt in the right state of mind or what?


Check your rep. I don't want this excellent thread ruined so what I believe is answered there and for further discussion, we can take it to PM.



jblvdx said:


> I lol'd in the "CM Punk punches fan" thread when Choke2Death's stated his biggest problem with the incident was Punk being morally wrong, when he has a child killer in his sig.....


This is a bunch of bullshit. I've cleared it up via PM so maybe you can stop harping on me about my sig now.

Lastly, Lesnar/Angle series:

WM19 - ****
SummerSlam - ****
Ironman - ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Angle/Lesnar:

WM- ****1/4
SS- ****1/4
Ironman- ****3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Redead said:


> also cal, do you walk around with those ratings memorised or have to keep looking them up?


I have most memorised. I save space for them in my brain by forgetting basic things like maths and spallings.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still like Benoit. omg right? Anyways...

Brock vs Angle WrestleMania 19 ~ ****
Brock vs Angle Summerslam '03 ~ ****1/4

Haven't seen Ironman since it aired so N/A on that match.

I'll follow up on C2D's review and chuck in my two cents:

*Taboo Tuesday 2004*


1) *Intercontinental Championship*:
Chris Jericho(c) vs Shelton Benjamin ~ ***


2) *WWE Women's Championship *- *Fulfill Your Fantasy Battle Royal*:
Trish Stratus(c) vs Victoria vs Molly Holly vs Jazz vs Gail Kim vs Stacy Keibler vs Nidia ~ DUD


3) *Weapon of Choice* - *Steel Chain Match*:
Kane vs Gene Snitsky ~ *1/4


4) *Hair vs Hair Match*:
Eugene vs Eric Bischoff ~ DUD


5) *World Tag Team Championship*:
La Resistance(c) vs Chris Benoit & Edge ~ *1/2


6) *Lingerie Pillow Fight*:
Christy Hemme vs Carmella ~ DUD


7) *World Heavyweight Championship*:
Triple H(c) vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***1/2


8) *Steel Cage Match*:
Randy Orton vs Ric Flair ~ ***3/4​

Show ends surprisingly well compared to how the majority was. Like how most brand PPVs played out in 2004 it was filled with crap and had a few matches worth seeing.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm a fan of the Shelton/Jericho match ever since I heard that Jericho had to call that match on the fly because he found out he was facing Shelton when Shelton's music hit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You can see Jericho discussing so much with the ref as soon as Shelton was named his opponent.

Their Backlash 2005 match...now that's where it is at.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Backlash match is really solid. (Y)

I liked the TT one too but I haven't watched in ages. Who did WWE expect to be voted in? Batista?

 at Shelton beating out Batista in voting as Batista approached huge popularity.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Is there a hope that WWE ever books a *Triple H vs. Rey Mysterio* match? What's Rey Rey doing these days anyway?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> That Backlash match is really solid. (Y)
> 
> I liked the TT one too but I haven't watched in ages. Who did WWE expect to be voted in? Batista?
> 
> at Shelton beating out Batista in voting as Batista approached huge popularity.


It rules, imo. ***3/4.

Hmm, maybe. I wonder if they were only prepared for Batista, Shelton, or Christian. Or maybe even Coach, lolz.

It's too bad Shelton sucks in ROH now. I think he's lazing on the job unlike Haas. Who flat out blows.



JoeRulz said:


> Is there a hope that WWE ever books a *Triple H vs. Rey Mysterio* match? What's Rey Rey doing these days anyway?


Unlikely. HHH is pretty much retired and Rey is working light only teaming with the awful Sin Cara to form a student/teacher bond or some crap I don't care about.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is Rey retiring next year (say, at WM)? Ever since he returned this time he just hasn't seemed himself. Even before teaming with one of the worst all round guys on the roster.

Ah Shelton Benjamin, what could have been. Need to continue my Raw 06 project cos he was on fire at the time. But I still need a new version of the episode that I'm up to because the quality is too bad for me to sit through .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He probably will. I don't think he cares to be there anymore. Look at how long it took for him to finally return after being healed too. I believe he's here to do the stuff with Sin Cara then leave. 

One guy's opinion on that.

Shelton in 2006? I hated not having a chance to watch RAW back then. Heard there were quite a bit of matches in the early months that really were strong. So a lot of what Shelton did before June is fuzzy on me pardon PPV appearances.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, for some reason I've been putting off my Raw 06 project for ages now because the episode I was up to was out of sync. And I have a program to put files in sync again. So I've just remembered about it and done it. Watchable now . Yey.

***+ Shelton matches from Raw 06 so far (I'm half way into May):

Shelton Benjamin Vs Rob Van Dam - Intercontinental Championship & Money in the Bank Briefcase Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ****
Rob Van Dam Vs Chris Masters Vs Charlie Hass Vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 08/05/2006 - ***3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 23/01/2006 - ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Charlie Hass - Raw 17/04/2006 - ***1/4
Rob Van Dam & Carlito Vs Chris Masters & Shelton Benjamin - Raw 01/05/2006 - ***

Doesn't seem like that many, but given the quality of Raw matches in 06, its pretty impressive, plus his matches from **-*** are all enjoyable and good still.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah yeah, forgot about the Haas return match vs Shelton. I _still_ never bothered to check it out yet. Looks pretty good. 6 matches in that span isn't bad. Pretty solid for one guy who wasn't a main eventer too. Could have been given 3 minute jobber matches for 5 months straight like some workers get. Never knew Shelton vs Michaels had a rematch either. That one was from way left field right now, haha.

I'd ask you on your thoughts about the Vengeance '06 Triple Threat Match with Shelton vs Nitro vs Carlito, but idk if you've seen it yet. (since it is in June afterall)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, not up to Vengeance yet. Gotta finish May first lol.

Match against Hass is awesome, really surprised me with how GREAT Hass looked in it. He looked awesome in that four way too. Shame they didn't do much of anything with him after that. Guy could have been just as good as Shelton in the IC title scene.

HBK match is a must watch. Love the callback spot to the 05 match finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why I stopped myself there, haha. (I find the 3 way to be vastly overrated. We'll see how you feel when you get there)

I want to check out 3 asap. Don't know if any made it's way to youtube or dailymotion. I can press my luck atm and try.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*John Cena & RVD Vs Triple H, Shelton Benjamin & Chris Matchers - 3 on 2 Handicap Texas Tornado Intercontinental & WWE Championship Match - Raw 15/05/2006*

Lol, what a clusterfuck match title! Hopefully its not a clusterfuck match with 5 guys all being allowed in the ring at the same time and 2 titles on the line.

Nothing noteworthy happens for... some time. HHH and Cena go at it, while Shelton and Masters go after RVD. Then they finally mix shit up and Benjamin goes after Cena... and WINS an exchange with him, ending in Shelton doing that spinning kick after his leg gets caught, which results in Cena flying over the guard rail to the fans! Then we get some nice 3 on 1 action (sounds wrong, I know...) with everyone beating on RVD (and it continues to sound wrong...).

Oh and of course, someone goes for a cover, someone else breaks it up because they wanna win the match, and that results in ARGUING. So Masters tries to sneak a win while HHH and Shelton bitch at each other . Wow, Cena is REALLY selling that ONE kick. I think he's trying to fill his yearly quota of selling in one match here. That's probably how he can superman every week these days; he sold the shit out of single moves every week in 2006!

No wait, that can't be it, he's supermaning like shit here. I guess he really is just superman. You heard confirmation of it here first!

LOL Shelton survives an STFU. Which HHH tapped out to at WM. LOL.

FINISHERS~! Lots and lots of FINISHERS~!

Shelton wins! Shelton wins! New WWE Champion! Shelton did it! By gawd Shelton Benjamin just became the WWF Cham... no wait he's the IC champ now. HHH thought he won, but he didn't. So he pedigrees a referee. Like you do.

First 7 or so minutes are... dull, but once they all start mixing it up instead of HHH Vs Cena and Shelton/Masters Vs RVD, it gets pretty good and really fun. Plus they get the IC title off RVD and back to Benjamin.

*Rating: ****


:lmao there's a Trish/Mickie segment after that match, and Trish comes out first and gets on the mic to cut a promo and challenge Mickie to come out to the ring... except its like Trish can only remember a line at a time, then stop talking as if the promo has ended... then starts with another line, then stops, then starts again :lmao. Oh hey, its Beth Phoenix. Remember when she was someone from Mickie's ***** past or something? Then she broke her jaw or something and we never saw her again until she came back and it was never mentioned. Always wondered where that shit was gonna go.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YEAH! Just finished downloading Smackdown 2005 (save for 3 episodes) and now I have it along with the PPVs and every single Raw. I'm on my way to finish 2006 PPVs but I have all the SD & Raw episodes there too. Despite what most people think, I actually am looking forward to watching Cena's dominance in the main event scene under those years. I still need to DL the ECW eps for 06, though.

The SD episodes I don't have from 05 (neither does XWT) are 4 August, 23 September and 28 October. If anyone has them, I would appreciate uploading it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Smackdown in 06 is consistently amazing, you're certainly in for a treat. Every division produces something entertaining, the midcard is the most stacked in terms of depth of talent as I can remember and there's enough diversity in matches that you don't feel like you're too exposed to the formula.

Can't comment for 05 and 06, but Cena in 07 really was incredible. From January up until October when he gets injured he makes the championship look like the most prestigious belt in the world and because of the well booked title feuds as well as his general performance, the belt changing hands would have been a truly special moment had Cena not gotten hurt and forced to vacate the title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, 2006 Smackdown was nuts. It seemed like every single match was worth seeing, _weekly_.

How many good matches did Finlay get Bobby Lashley to? I lost count. That's the real gem of that year. All of the FINLAY goodies.

Oh and got this done:

*WWE Raw 4/17/06*
Shelton Benjamin vs Charlie Haas ~ ***1/4​
(Y) Loved how Shelton stole the rolling thunder + how he took Haas lightly since in his(Shelton's) mind he was the superior member of the team. That proved to be a mistake when Haas snuck out the win. Good little match with nice storytelling thrown in. Pushed the program with Van Dam & helped re-establish the returning Haas all in one swoop. Glad I finally saw it.


----------



## Stone Hot (Dec 30, 2010)

you think we can ever get a dvd on the undertakers whole career from beginning to now with Mark Calaway Telling it himself


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So I've spent some time watching/re-watching 2000s Michaels stuff. Notably I went through the Flair/Batista/Jericho stuff from 2008, and not a lot of it is something I really liked. Some didn't hold up at all, some was good, and some stuff I'd never seen before did nothing for me (I hated that stretcher match). But holy shit the GAB Michaels/Jericho RULES. Jericho was awesome and his offense looked so much more snug and tight than normal. They pretty much just beat on each other and it's probably more purely violent and nasty than the stip matches they did. Fuck everything else this is their best match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Interesting you'd say that considering most felt that was their weakest PPV match together or at least more angle than match. I'm going to have to eventually re-watch it myself but I loved pretty much everything Michaels did in '08 with Flair, Batista, and Jericho. HBK even had some strong TV matches with Jeff Hardy and Mr. Kennedy that year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Surprised it's kind of thought of as the lesser match. I expect it to take a back seat to the ladder match because it's had so many fans since it happened, but people like Judgment Day more? I mean, I liked that one too, but it didn't have the HATE~. It's probably me.  If I put the matches in order of how much I liked them people would probably look at me funny.

I should watch some of 2008 Michaels' tv stuff for sure. I only watched the LMS v Jericho from England and didn't like it too much. The Kennedy matches actually interest me because I watched Armageddon 2007 and it was much better than I was expecting. In fact I'll just grab a bunch of random Michaels from 2002-2010 and see if I find any gems or anything. I hear he has oddly good chemistry with Carlito.

Tonight I'm going to watch the DX/Legacy PPV matches.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yes on the Michaels having chemistry with Carlito and Chris Masters in 2005. I mentioned the Michaels/Carlito match the night after Survivor Series 05 a couple of days ago being a quality TV match. Probably the best singles match for Carlito in WWE. The Masters match from Unforgiven 05 was his best match in the company until he vastly improved in 2010.


----------



## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

i watched punk's best in the world documentary dvd. it's as good a wrestling doc as i've seen and the special features are clips they cut out of the main movie cuz i guess they didn't fit into the story they were telling. they are worth watching and the one about him fracturing his skull is a must watch especially. 5 stars imo. i haven't checked out the rest of the set, but looking at the matches included i was let down there are no ring of honor matches at all. they really couldn't give roh some money to get a couple matches on there. it would have been nice to have at least one in the set considering the time they spent talking about that portion of his career. it makes the set feel incomplete.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I agree Punk's Best in the World DVD is great


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk DVD star ratings:

vs Albright - ***
vs Credible - N/A
vs Morrison - ***3/4
MITB IV - ****1/4
W/Kofi vs Ted/Cody - ***1/4
vs Regal - ***1/2
vs Hardy TLC - ****1/2
vs Mysterio OTL - ***1/2
vs Cena MITB - *****
vs Jericho WM - ****1/2
vs Bryan OTL - ****3/4

Listing OWNS. Could watch the doc a million times too.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Yeah the Punk DVD was very well put together, felt rushed in some areas but still a quality buy especially if you're a Punk fan.

Triple H vs. Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 2001) - ***1/4
Triple H vs. Steve Austin (No Way Out 2001) - ****1/2+ (I did not remember HHH going over)


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Finally got round to watching the history of the world heavyweight championship doc last night, really interesting and one of my favourite docs I've seen.

Shawn Michaels had a great year in 08, loved everything he did especially from a character perspective, probably his best year in his second run imo


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

:mark: Smackdown 2001 has downloaded

Michaels had a great 2007&2008, some awesome TV matches lodged away some weeks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES! Somebody loves the WM XXIV MITB match just as much as I do !

In regards to the HBK-Jericho 08 series, I tend to like all of the PPV encounters. Judgment Day and GAB matches were such complete inverses of one another that it was awesome. JD was more of a complete wrestling match, while the GAB match was all kinds of fire/stiffness/intensity that a casual fan wouldn't really enjoy IMO. Their fall PPV matches were all kinds of awesome, although if Jericho had to bleed in the UNF match it would have been twice as good (you can't say that about very many matches). Imagine that ending image, with Michaels standing over an EXTREMELY bloody Jericho, looking down at what he had just done.

HBK-Masters UNF 05 : ******


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

All that cage match talk encouraged me to put a little list together on some of my favorite cage matches ever. I'm sure I'm missing something and the order is not 100 percent exact:


Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA (I Quit Match) - NWA Starrcade 1985 

Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood vs. Sgt. Slaughter & Don Kernodle - Mid-Atlantic's Final Conflict 03/12/1983 

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton - NWA Great American Bash 07/05/1986 

Triple X vs. America's Most Wanted (Six Sides Of Steel) - TNA Turning Point 2004 

Edge vs. Matt Hardy - WWE Unforgiven 2005

Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WWF SummerSlam 1994 

AJ Styles vs. Abyss (Six Sides Of Steel) - TNA Lockdown 2005 

Triple H vs. Ric Flair - WWE Taboo Tuesday 2005 

Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (Six Sides Of Steel) - TNA Lockdown 2008 

CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy (Loser Leaves WWE) - WWE Smackdown 08/28/2009 

Kurt Angle vs. Mr. Anderson (Six Sides Of Steel) - TNA Lockdown 2010 

Ron Garvin vs. Ric Flair - NWA Starrcade 1987 

Triple H vs. The Rock - WWF Rebellion 1999 

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - WWF Raw 06/11/2001 

Edge vs. Kurt Angle - WWE Smackdown 05/30/2002 

Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan (Career vs. Career) - WCW Halloween Havoc 1994 

The Undertaker vs. Batista - WWE Smackdown 05/12/2007 

Christian vs. Christian - WWE Raw 05/10/2004 

Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes - NWA Great American Bash 07/26/1986 

Edge vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Raw 11/22/2004

The Steiners vs. Money Inc. - WWF Raw: SummerSlam Spectacular 08/23/1993 

Randy Orton vs. Ric Flair - WWE Taboo Tuesday 2004 

The Undertaker vs. Big Show - WWE Smackdown 12/05/2008 

Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff - WWF Saturday Night's Main Event 01/03/1987 

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - WWE Raw 2008 

Edge vs. Chris Jericho - WWE Extreme Rules 2010 

Edge/Chavo Guerrero/The Edgeheads vs. Shawn Michaels & Ric Flair (4 on 2 Handicap Match) - WWE Smackdown 03/15/2008 

Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase - WWF Madison Square Garden 06/25/1988

Mark Henry vs. Daniel Bryan - WWE Smackdown 11/29/2011 

Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk - WWE Raw 09/15/2008 

Chris Jericho vs. Batista - WWE Raw 11/03/2008 

Rey Mysterio vs. Batista - WWE Smackdown 01/15/2010 

Edge & Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy & Rey Mysterio (Special Referee: CM Punk) - WWE Smackdown 06/26/2009


I have not seen Backlund/Slaughter, yet


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's a fantastic list. Magnum-Blanchard is the greatest cage match of all time IMO, hands down. My list will be strictly WWF/WWE though, so it's going to be more of a MYSTERY as to what's number one :hhh 

Also, I know this isn't the TNA DVD/Match/Show discussion thread, but Styles-Abyss is my favourite TNA match ever and a legit candidate for MOTY 2005 (YES I think it's better than the Unbreakable 3 way  )


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Only TNA match from 2005 that's a contender for MOTY is Styles/Joe from Turning Point. That being said its not better than either Eddie/Rey 6/23 Smackdown or Benoit/Regal Velocity 2005, been a while since I watched it but HHH/Batista strikes me as better as well. HHH/Flair Steel Cage, Hardy/Edge Unforgiven and another Rey/Eddie match would also be higher. Its definitely better than a lot of WWE matches from that year, but I'd probably have 5 WWE matches ahead of it at least.

Speaking of Hardy/Edge, their Summerslam 05 match is a contender for best sub 10 minute match in company history IMO. I remembered it being bloody but I watched it a couple of months back and was blown away by how good Edge's offence actually looked for once. Should have stuck to headbutting people square in the face and working a cut instead his indyriffic CAW offence. Hardy also throws some amazing punches and sells as well as anyone has ever sold blood loss in a WWE ring.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I haven't seen Styles/Abyss but the thought of Abyss having a MOTYC makes me feel weird. I will watch it one day.

Watched the DX v Legacy matches. Thoughts be here (sort of, some of it is just babbling):

SUMMERSLAM
I liked the first ten minutes of this a ton (the match- DX's entrance was kinda really lame and if that was on while I was having dinner with my family I would have to explain I don't enjoy it). HHH just spends some time punching and kneeing both Legacy dudes in the face and his stuff looked good. Then Rhodes gets near Michaels and it's obvious as hell he's going to slap him in the face. Obviousness kind of bothers some people, but it doesn't bother me, I was looking forward to it and if he DIDN'T happen to slap him in the face I would have said a mighty "what the fuck!?" What was really great about the slap was the crowd were chanting 'HBK' and Michaels were looking at them meaning he didn't see Cody's hand plummet toward his beard. Obviously he wants t be tagged in now, and after some dilly-dally wrestling Cody just slaps in the face AGAIN. Michaels says "fuck you" and tackles him to the ground, but Rhodes saids "no, fuck YOU" and reverses it right away and punches at his face. Best two minutes of Cody Rhodes ever. Both Legacy members work over Michaels really well and I don't remember this team looking this good. I was actually disappointed when Michaels got the tags because I wanted the Legacy's stuff to go longer. HHH's house o' fire sort of thing was all right, but it was great when Cody kicked in the back while on apron like 'ah fuck you', but then HHH says 'no fuck YOU' and pulls him in the ring. The finishing parts were kinda cool with HHH getting in a sort-of-cheap-shot Pedigree and people bumping everywhere, but it didn't feel like the sort of end I wanted I liked the match overall. The end was fine (Cody sold the superkick pretty bad though), but through I was like "IDK what I wanted near the end but it wasn't this." You understanding me? If not then I'll say fuck you worse than Cody Rhodes did. . It feels like these two teams had a really good ten minute TV match in them that I hope actually happened. Even then, as of now this is either my favourite or second favourite Michaels/HHH tag. IDK if that's saying a WHOLE lot because I think most of their matches were either average or kinda shitty or really shitty, but I liked this. 

BREAKING POINT
So I just gone done saying these teams wrestled a good, normal match, and here we are with Submissions Count Anywhere. I don't remember seeing too many Submissions Count Anywhere matches, so I wasn't sure what to totally expect. I saw visions of four goofballs putting on shitty crossfaces on the streets in front of confused locals. And a moose (they were in Canada). What this was OK, but I'm not much a fan of the WWE-style All Over the Arena brawl even when they're done pretty well (and this one was done kinda averagely). The opening was kind of weird with Michaels looking at HHH and DiBiase instead of looking at Rhodes kick him in the leg. If he doesn't see it he won't sell it. Both DX guys work both Legacy guys' legs and I liked DiBiase stumbling toward HHH and almost falling over when punching him the head. The Boston Crab/Camel Clutch through the chair spot was really cool. They wind up in the concession area where they have a bunch of random chanting weirdos yelling 'YOU SCREWED BRET' at Michaels, and this was just after they worked over both Rhodes' and DiBiase's legs. Then they put on figure-fours. HUH? You're in Montreal surrounded by beer-guzzling bitter Bret Hart fans- USE THE SHARPSHOOTER. Speaking of submission moves - I wish neither member of DX ever used the crossface. I'm not particularly offended by it or anything; they just suck ass at putting it on. Back near the ring sometime later Rhodes has this reverse Gory Guerrero whatever thingy it is on Michaels and HHH seemingly breaks it up by jumping off of the apron and not even touching him. I'm imagining Steph telling Cody before the match- "Whenever you put that Reverse Gory Guerrero Whatever Thingy It Is on Shawn- you will break it up when Hunter jumps to the floor." To which Cody replies with "YES EMPRESS!" and a salute. I don't remember much of the last moments where the Legacy were working Michaels over solo. Well I kinda do but I don't really think it's really worth mentioning. IDK. Needed a moose. If this had Shawn Michaels putting on a sharpshooter in front of a moose it would have been ****1/2.

HELL IN A CELL
I loved the idea of this. Unfortunately it wasn't executed very well and just wasn't much fun to watch. Rhodes and DiBiase attack DX before the match even starts and they brawl all around the outside. Said brawling just wasn't that good. They get to the ramp entrance place and HHH takes Rhodes' god-awful finisher (seriously the fuck is that thing?) on the entrance way. This way they lock the door and keep Shawn in the ring and can just beat on him and win handily. It was just kind of boring and I thought the visual of HHH lying there was funny. Shawn's semi-comebacks were kind of fun, I liked when he just channelled his inner Sabu and chucked the chair directly at Cody's face. Rhodes also took a hell of a bump into the cell when Michaels used DiBiase as a weapon. One MILLION minutes after lying dead from The Shitty Thing That Is Cody Rhodes' Finisher, HHH is flopping and bouncing like a mental patient on stilts down the ramp-way. And I thought him just lying there was funny. Then he can't open the lock and DiBiase yells like an idiot "you like that donchta?" "you're HELPESS TRIPLE HHHHHH". That was also kind of funny, like when the Miz tries to act serious. Actually Shawn's acting in some of this was abysmal, like I don't remember anything short of his awful Southern Belle performance at this year's WrestleMania being worse. He was shaking a wobbling like an old man, and he was better at shaking and wobbling like an old man in 1996 when he wasn't actually an old man. So HHH leaves to what I'm hoping is him running down the ramp yelling like a barbarian to try to break the door down with his shoulder, but instead what I get after a millionerererer more minutes than him lying there was some bolt cutters. He cuts the door he hits people DiBiase locked out DX win match over GOODBYE. Bleh.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Whilst we're on the subject

*2005 MOTYs WWE/TNA*

1) Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - 6/23/05
2) Chris Benoit vs. William Regal - Velocity ??/??/05
3) Triple H vs. Batista HIAC - Vengance 2005
4) AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe - Turning Point 2005
5) Triple H vs. Ric Flair Steel Cage - Taboo Tuesday 2005


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Angle/Michaels from Mania tops my list for 05 and the rest of my Top 5 would be Unbreakable 3-way, Batista/Trips HIAC, Joe/AJ TP, and Mysterio/Eddie SD. Lots of other matches really close too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

July 16th for that Regal/Benoit match . My top 5 WWE/TNA (an ROH match could make it in the list too but my mind sucks at the remembering things):

1. AJ Styles Vs Samoa Joe - Turning Point
2. Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - Armageddon
3. Batista Vs HHH - Vengeance
4. Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - SD 23/06/2005
5. William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - WWE Velocity 16/07/2005


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think one of the Strong/Danielson matches was in 05, if Vendetta was in 05 then that's definitely another ahead of Styles/Joe. Styles/Joe is very good in its own right, but part of why I like it so much is that I can barely name 10 TNA matches I'd call 'great' due to the style, so any match they do that actually manages to make me not only think of it as good, but a contender for MOTY will always leave me impressed. Same reason I fucking love Storm/Harris Texas Death Match from Sacrifice 2007, although again I'd have a few matches over it as MOTY.

EDIT: Vendetta was on 11/5/05.

Top 10 for the year, WWE/TNA/ROH:

1. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio, Smackdown 6/23/05
2. Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong, Vendetta 11/5/05
3. Chris Benoit vs William Regal, Velocity 7/16/05
4. Batista vs HHH, Vengeance
5. Matt Hardy vs Edge, Unforgiven 
6. Ric Flair vs HHH, Taboo Tuesday
7. Samoa Joe vs AJ Styles, Turning Point
8. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio, Great American Bash
9. John Cena vs JBL, Judgement Day
10. Matt Hardy vs Edge, Summerslam


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My top 5 overall for 2005 :

1. HHH/Batista VEN
2. NYR 05 EC
3. Eddie/Rey SD
4. MITB I
5. HBK-Angle WM XXI / Abyss-Styles LD / Benoit-Regal VEL

SO many great matches from ALL promotions in 2005, might do a top 50 list someday from WWE/TNA, just a top 5 year in Wrestling history (match-wise anyways).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, how good can the Eddie/Rey match on SD be that everyone here is putting it in their lists? Can't wait until I get to 2005 as 2004 is starting to become a bit boring by the end now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its fucking amazing. Has the usual sensational chemistry between Rey and Eddie, but on top of that you have Eddie in the midst of his psychotic breakdown as beating Rey slowly drives him more and more insane with every passing minute and the way they incorporate this into each section of the match and focus not only Eddie's control segment but also Rey's comeback around Eddie's fragile mind is extraordinary. Probably the best match in SD history, although I can see why Rey/Orton 06, Taker/Angle 03, Benoit/Austin Edmonton 01, Benoit/Orton 06 and Benoit/Finlay 06 might also be regarded by people as better.

Btw, seeing as you've been watching Smackdown 04. Thoughts on Eddie/Show from 4/15? I think its legit one of the smartest and entertaining matches WWE has put on, but on top of that its a really fucking great David vs Goliath match and is a definite performance you'd pinpoint to as proof of Eddie's versatile talent. The spot where he manages to hide a wrench in Show's boot to use against him later in the match is still one of the most creative and brilliant visuals I can ever recall seeing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Most universally underrated match of all time ?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Most universally underrated match of all time ?


Eddie vs. Rey 6/23/05 
Bar from a few people (Segunda, Cal, Yeah, and a few others) I rarely see it being brought up when it comes to the all time great matches and it should be up there with the best, IMO. Must watch for any wrestling fan.

Matt Hardy vs. Edge Unforgiven 2005
LOL FATT HARDY~! No. Matt Hardy put in his career performance in this match and in my opinion, is one of, if not THEE greatest WWE Steel Cage match ever. Everything you need all rolled in to one, making for very easy and enjoyable viewing.

HHH vs. Eugene Summerslam 2004
The best character performance of the century, IMO. The match may not be ***** and it will most certainly not go down as a technical masterpiece, Triple H's dickish heel performance mixed with the sympathy Eugene manages to get alongside the selling he does makes this match remarkable. The difference between the hate you have for HHH at the beginning of the match and the hate for HHH after the match is crazy. I was never a fan of Triple H until a couple of years ago when I saw this match and it blew me away.

These three stand out a lot, to me. I could go on forever and ever, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT from 5/22/03 on Smackdown. Up there as one of the best tags of the decade for me, and definitely something that I enjoy as much as Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho. Its also twice as good as the heavily praised Benoit/Angle vs Mysterio/Edge No Mercy 2002 match.

Mysterio/Chavo from Great American Bash 2004 is the best WWE cruiserweight match ever, though Noble/Mysterio Velocity 2004 is damn close. Definitely should be talked about a lot more.

Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day 2006 is at worst a top 15 match in WWE history. Frontrunner for MOTY worldwide imo bar maybe 1 or 2 Danielson matches from ROH, Rey/Orton and Taker/Angle. Criminal that HBK/Vince is often considered a better MOTY candidate than this in some circles. 

Rey/Orton Smackdown 2006 is a top 2 WHC title match ever since it was introduced in 2002, only below Taker/Angle from No Way Out.

Christian vs Swagger 2/24/09 from ECW, its better than HBK/Taker from WM 25 to me and is probably the WWE MOTY aside from possibly Punk/Hardy Loser Leaves Town on Smackdown.

There are tons of Lucha and Japan matches that people will never have heard of which are sensational and up there with the peak of US wrestling. The famous Cestra vs Cantazzaro masterpiece from France in the 1960s is also most likely the best match to have been hardly watched by wrestling fans.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton on SD 06 is definitely up there among the most underrated.



Segunda Caida said:


> Btw, seeing as you've been watching Smackdown 04. Thoughts on Eddie/Show from 4/15? I think its legit one of the smartest and entertaining matches WWE has put on, but on top of that its a really fucking great David vs Goliath match and is a definite performance you'd pinpoint to as proof of Eddie's versatile talent. The spot where he manages to hide a wrench in Show's boot to use against him later in the match is still one of the most creative and brilliant visuals I can ever recall seeing.


I just had to go back and rewatch because I didn't remember it as it's been a while since I was in the early stages of the year. You pretty much described the match perfectly and I don't know if I have anything to add. Great work by both men with the David/Goliath roles played to perfection. I used to hate this type of match (see Cena/Khali JD 07) because I was brainwashed into thinking a match is all about how many MOVEZ~! are performed but since reading your reviews, I've been more appreciative of this type of match-ups. I'd rate it at ***1/4.

So glad I made the smart decision of going back to check out full years and putting more importance into match quality when watching a show. Had it not been for this thread and my sudden decision to check out full years, I would have probably just quit being a wrestling fan altogether since the current shows would have made me hate being a wrestling fan.

I am now a week from Survivor Series and the Tough Enough stuff has started to take over Smackdown's TV time. Just thought I'd point out how funny Ryan Reeves (Ryback) looks with hair at this stage and then to see how far he's come (The Miz too).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

(Y). Good to see you're finding more and more matches you barely recall, always great to find matches you'd forgotten existed and be reminded of the quality WWE can produce.

Also to add to *FluxCapacitaor's* point, I really think Matt Hardy is a top 10 worker for WWE from the last decade (2000-2009). He doesn't really get noticeably good until his 2003 heel run in the cruiserweight division, but after he returns in 2005 for the Edge feud he has an insane run through 2006, till 2007 and into 2008 where he has weekly good-great TV matches. Damn good offence, brilliant seller, really has the pacing and structure of matches down, comfortable in a face/heel role, really the guy WWE should have built the midcard around. He was as over as a midcard guy could get, and really was a guy who would have made a fine midcard ace seeing as he was never going to be a main event guy. Hell the Mcintyre feud in 2010 produced some good matches with the blowoff match being the first proper introduction to Mcintyre's quality, I still cringe at the flat back bump on the steps.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Most underrated match is something I think about sometimes. I can point to a Rey/Noble or something, but that's not so much underrated as much it is just under the radar. No one's able to underrate it if no one has seen it. Jerry Blackwell doesn't get a minuscule fraction of the love he deserves, but people don't watch him and not like him; people just don't watch him. If I'm thinking 'underrated' I have to think of a match that's been seen by many people, and is literally rated under what I think it should be. Yeah I can't think of THE match like that right now. I'll find it one day. ONE DAY.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I wouldn't say that these are the most underrated however...

-I'm" throwing out the Paul London/Akio trilogy. Saw them on a recommendation and for the time they were given those two put on a fantastic trio of cruiserweight matches. Josh Matthews was on his A game with commentary which only added to goodness. Loved how each match progressively topped the match prior.

-I'll also throw out Matt Hardy vs. Finlay from Smackdown *6/22/07*. 18 minutes of straight show stealing goodness. You got Finlay playing the brillow, witty vet and Hardy fighting up from under; the little things and fundamentals are what made this match and the finish was excellent. I'm" going to check out his previous match with William Regal later since I don't remember it but it'll be hard to top this.

EDIT:
A few other mentions.

Candice Michelle vs. Beth Phoenix (Unforgiven 07) *for women wrestling fans*
Hardy Boyz vs. Dudley Boyz- Table Match (Xtreme Smackdown '01?)
Chris Benoit vs. MVP- Best of 3 Falls Match (Judgment Day 07)
Big Show vs. Ric Flair- Extreme Rules Match (ECW 06)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh man that Finlay/Hardy is absolutely spectacular. I'll watch the Cena/Michaels again soon (hell, maybe today), but honestly I can't think of anything from 2007 WWE bar Cena/Umaga that's definitely better. Legitimately great match; better than any of the Rey/Finlays, Matt Hardy's second best match and possibly a top 5 SmackDown match. I laugh in the face of Matt Hardy haters.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Yeah1993* beat me to the punch there, but aye that match is just incredible. Finlay is just oh so brilliant working over the leg, but Hardy's selling may actually eclipse him. There's been some monumentally awesome selljobs in WWE over the years but this stands out personally as the best, its up there with Kawada levels of selling on a couple of occasions, and Matt's Fujiwara esque bump off a stiff Finlay forearm is also majestic. I would take one of the Cena/Michaels matches over it (maybe both but I could see the Finlay/Hardy match edging one out as a personal favourite) and Cena/Umaga is just presented in such a violent and spectacular way that I'd probably have it higher. Cena's performance is outstanding but even though Finlay/Hardy bell to bell might be better (i.e the finish of Cena/Umaga being divisive and some brilliant unique touches in Hardy/Finlay) there's just something in the atmosphere, presentation and spectacle that was Cena/Umaga.

I do think Hardy/Finlay is better than any of the Batista/Taker matches however. Its just more my style of wrestling and I can't think of Taker or Batista putting in better performances in any of their matches than Finlay & Hardy did.

Here's my review of it anyway:



> *Matt Hardy vs Finlay - (WWE Smackdown 06/22/2007)*
> 
> Tremendous, tremendous match which right now could end up as high as my top 50, I loved it that much. Hardy might be one of the most underrated workers of the decade at least in the WWE because people either remember him for his Hardy Boyz days or his supposed mental breakdown in recent years, but in 2006-2008 especially he was having regularly good-great matches with a variety of opponents and he's in no way carried by Finlay here. There's some great little character moments here that you come to expect in Finlay matches, things like them struggling to force a break in a lock-up in the corner and Finlay trying to intimidate Hardy who motions him to 'bring it on', just really set the stage for what was to occur. Finlay throws a couple of vicious World of Sport esque forearms when Hardy goes for consecutive arm wringers, and Hardy's sell of the first one was Fujiwara esque: just collapses and stumbles into the ropes like his legs have just crumbled beneath him. Match really takes off however when Hardy gets yanked off the tope rope and lands awkwardly on his knee, which Cole and JBL point out took 10 months off of his career in 2004. Finlay is meticulous and devastating on offence with a variety of unique takedowns and submissions targeting the leg, but Hardy's selling is legit one of the finest selling performances I've seen in this time period. He just constantly hobbles and barely puts any pressure on the left leg, there's this one super moment where he goes to clothesline Finlay and essentially just collapses into him as he attempts to move a couple of yards. Finlay's entire control segment is just incredibly engaging with him being a vicious bastard and doing various unique touches to sell his desire to cripple Hardy, stuff like him removing the knee brace and finding ways to utilise every part of the ringside area such as a nifty spot where he just launches Hardy knee first into the steps and then has this awesome forced apology to the referee. Finish is excellent with them teasing a Finlay screwjob via the shillelagh only for Hardy to catch a cocky Finlay with a sudden twist of fate for the flash victory.
> 
> Incredible selling performance from Hardy complimented by a unique and vicious workover by Finlay, both men brought the violence with some tremendous strikes (Hardy throws this AWESOME punch combo which has Finlay rocking against the ropes) and just lay the match out with some excellent character traits that develop as the match progresses. Everything you can want in a wrestling match.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Segunda Caida states it better than I ever could, you wouldn't believe how much I was marking out during that match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

For YEARS I always thought Randy Orton and Matt Hardy were underrated as workers especially Orton in 04-06 and Hardy in 06-07. I'm glad more people are coming around to appreciating their abilities back then.

The Hardy/Finlay match is a beauty as are most Finlay matches in that period. Back then I even marked for Finlay's matches with Lashley. I have not watched any of those matches since they aired but my dad and I really enjoyed seeing those two go at it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think Cena has the most impressive carry-job of Lashley at GAB 2007, but no-one managed to consistently carry Lashley and hide his weaknesses as well as Finlay did on a semi regular basis.

Finlay can be trusted to work against anyone and everyone, guy just has his act down to a tee. His entire 2006 run is my candidate for the best year a wrestler's had since 2000. Cena for most of 2007 comes close, Danielson in 2006 as ROH Champ was the only person able to come close to matching Finlay for consistency and Austin in 01 had some incredible matches and an overall fabulous character performance, but week to week Finlay was just going on a tear. He also has the 3 Benoit matches from 06, the 07 Hardy match and the Undertaker match from Smackdown Cal really loved as top tier matches as well as his general consistent output of good-very good TV matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Finlay's made one minute squashes that were used to get Hornswoggle over fun. He can do no wrong.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would have given Benoit/Finlay MOTY in '06 if I didn't have Danielson/KENTA at *****. Still fucking love Benoit/Finlay.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

This is my favourite section of the forum. Seriously, I'm always going through this thread looking for random matches. Going to check out that Hardy/Finlay match. 

I just want to get some opinions, what's the best MITB ladder match? For me, it's SD MITB 2010. Goddamn, I really enjoyed it. One of the few if not probably the only MITB match to have some sort of psychology to it. The whole thing with the Big Show breaking every ladder he stepped on built it up so well for when it was time to bring out that big ass ladder.

I haven't seen it since but hey call me crazy I remember screaming down the place on the forum "5 stars!!" Yeah, probably overrating at the time but from what I recall it was just a beautiful match.

@Segunda, not seeing anything from Finaly and Hardy on 6/22/07



Segunda Caida said:


> I think one of the Strong/Danielson matches was in 05, if Vendetta was in 05 then that's definitely another ahead of Styles/Joe. Styles/Joe is very good in its own right, but part of why I like it so much is that I can barely name 10 TNA matches I'd call 'great' due to the style, so any match they do that actually manages to make me not only think of it as good, but a contender for MOTY will always leave me impressed. Same reason I fucking love Storm/Harris Texas Death Match from Sacrifice 2007, although again I'd have a few matches over it as MOTY.
> 
> EDIT: Vendetta was on 11/5/05.
> 
> ...




Ok, I need to check this one out. Was it really that damn good? I'm not a big Roderick Strong fan and quite frankly D-Bryan's in-ring work doesn't impress me like it does most people. I'm not denying the guy's technical abilities but to me that's not all that makes someone a great wrestler. As a matter of fact, knowledge of holds has absolutely nothing to do with being a great wrestler/worker. They're the same thing in my opinion, wrestler and worker. Cause when you're wrestling a match you're basically working. 

But yeah, the names you just listed this match sounds like a blow the fucking gasket match. It sounds like a match where it starts of with some chain wrestling for the sake of chain wrestling and then it just fucking blows. It just evolves into nothing but stiff kicks and head dropping and near falls.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Top 20 Steel Cage Matches in WWE History*


20.









JBL vs Eddie Guerrero (SD 04) : **** 1/2*


19.









Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero (SD 05) : **** 1/2*


18.









JBL vs The Big Show (No Way Out 2005) : **** 1/2*


17.









Chris Jericho vs Christian (Raw 2004) : **** 1/2*


16.









The Undertaker vs Batista (Smackdown 2007) : **** 1/2*


15.









Hulk Hogan vs The Big Bossman (MSG 1989) : **** 1/2*


14.









Bob Backlund vs Stan Hansen (MSG 1981) : **** 1/2*


13.
(INSERT RANDOM PHOTO HERE SINCE I CAN'T FIND ONE)

Chris Benoit vs Edge (Raw 2004) : **** 1/2*


12.
(FUCK THIS SHIT HERE'S A RANDOM PHOTO)









Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (MSG 1991) : **** 3/4*


11.









Edge vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2002) : **** 3/4 *


10.









JBL vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 2006) : **** 3/4*


9.









Ric Flair vs Randy Orton (Taboo Tuesday 2004) : **** 3/4*


8.









Bob Backlund vs Pat Patterson (MSG 1979) : ******


7.









Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan (Smackdown 2011) : ******


6.









Mankind vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Summerslam 1997) : ******


5.









CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (Smackdown 2009) : ***** 1/4*


4.









Matt Hardy vs Edge (Unforgiven 2005) : ***** 1/4*


3. 









Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Summerslam 1994) : ***** 1/4*


2.









Bob Backlund vs Sgt Slaughter (Philly Spectrum 1981) : ***** 1/4*


1.









Triple H vs Ric Flair (Taboo Tuesday 2005) : ***** 1/4*


Greatest Cage Match Performer of All Time ?

..............................................

*BOB BACKLUND*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I knew it was Pat Patterson.

Haven't seen some of the some on there, and I had no clue Savage and Warrior had a cage match in '91. I think I prefer the SNME Hogan/Bossman to the MSG one. I probably would have had a Bret Hart/Yokozuna and Hogan/Orndorff in there somewhere. Prob replace Eddie/Rey and Eddie/JBL since I've never really loved them. 

Did you watch Roddy Piper v Rick Rude? I love match and totally forgot about it up until now. Also just remembered I loved Andre the Giant v Kamala too but I seemed to be alone on that.


----------



## ShinyaNaKano56 (Aug 17, 2012)

I have a copy of Wrestlemania 28 DVD for sale, NTSC Region 1 Version, new, sealed, at a good price, 17,50 € (about 23 $ or 14 £). The price include shipping, everywhere in the world!

If Interested, send me a PM


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Favourite MITB match is from Mania 24. A great lineup and some brilliant spots coupled with that amazing crowd makes it ****1/2 for me which is possibly even a bit harsh. 

Going to give Mania 24 a watch as it's probably my second favourite event ever


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

KingofKings, I noticed that, absent from your list, was the cage match between Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit from Raw, I believe. I think that the most beautiful moonsault I've ever seen I saw in this match, Kurt Angle from the top of the cage. And am I mistaken if I remember some kind of insane mega flying headbutt? And it's not even in your top 20? Come on man! Their chemistry is on a Eddie Guerrero-Rey Mysterio level. 

Also, I also look back fondly at WM 24, and I feel like not a lot of people do. I really liked Edge/Taker, the Triple Threat seemed fine, although I haven't seen it since that fateful night. I was also a big fan of HBK/Flair, the classic "I'm sorry, I love you", that shit was just classic. HBK has told some really cool stories over the years. I felt like it was a PPV that delivered for me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

the Angle cage match is the worst match Chris Benoit ever had.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched the Punk Doc - really great, not as epic as some people say IMHO but excellent nonetheless , really enjoyed the early Punk stuff from the Indie promotions, such a different Punk in terms of in ring moves it seemed,

Couple of small points that annoyed me:

When Punk was talking about his tattoo's, he said he has Tatt's of repect and all that and people who dont have tattoos on thier skin that they believe in like love, respect etc they dont really believe it them - What?! fpalm

Still wanna kinda punch Micheal Hayes - god if i had to work with him id be fired in record time lol.

All in all though, great stuff, i also amshamed to say i didn't know Punk and Heyman had such a close connection and Punk said he owes his career to Heyman.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't have Bret/Owen or HHH/Mankind cage matches anywhere near a top 20 cage matches list, probably not even top 30-40 for just WWF/E lol.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark:. Available now? *waits for it to show up online*


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

WWe trailers always say that, it's not out till November 6th in the US.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit .


----------



## Hollywood Hanoi (Mar 31, 2011)

Would this thread be the correct place to discuss shoot interview dvds (RF, KC, Highspots,etc)? I cant get enough of them, was thinking of putting a list together of my faves and get some recommends while Im at it, dont know if theres much interest for them.
Jesse Ventura's new RF looks interesting, afaik its all wrestling (no politics, conspiracies, predators), his Rosenberg interview was great so im gonna hve to hunt this down


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

How many TV/PPV matches did Eddie and Rey have in 2005? I've always wanted to check out their entire series. Dates would be preferred as well for TV matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I just want to get some opinions, what's the best MITB ladder match? For me, it's SD MITB 2010. Goddamn, I really enjoyed it. One of the few if not probably the only MITB match to have some sort of psychology to it. The whole thing with the Big Show breaking every ladder he stepped on built it up so well for when it was time to bring out that big ass ladder.
> 
> @Segunda, not seeing anything from Finaly and Hardy on 6/22/07


Hardy vs Finlay is here:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=2

Best MITB match IMO is the original at WM21, largely due to Benoit's performance and the selling of the arm injury throughout the match and which plays into the finish. Like a lot of MITB matches it has a lot of car crash bumps and spots, but Benoit's selling always ensures the match has some form of coherent story whenever he's in the ring.

The SD MITB 2010 match is really terrific though, probably one of the best ones for a few years. Show's performance was really spectacular and I thought they were brilliantly creative with the giant ladder. Show also has a really oustanding fourway match against Cody Rhodes, Mcintyre and Ziggler from early 2011 which has a similar 'Show vs the world' formula with him wrecking shit and the heels all bumping magically for everything.



sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, I need to check this one out. Was it really that damn good? I'm not a big Roderick Strong fan and quite frankly D-Bryan's in-ring work doesn't impress me like it does most people. I'm not denying the guy's technical abilities but to me that's not all that makes someone a great wrestler. As a matter of fact, knowledge of holds has absolutely nothing to do with being a great wrestler/worker. They're the same thing in my opinion, wrestler and worker. Cause when you're wrestling a match you're basically working.
> 
> But yeah, the names you just listed this match sounds like a blow the fucking gasket match. It sounds like a match where it starts of with some chain wrestling for the sake of chain wrestling and then it just fucking blows. It just evolves into nothing but stiff kicks and head dropping and near falls.


Its a superb match, Danielson's reign from September 2005 through until the end of 2006 was one of the best reigns in US history, and definitely the closest we've come to having a modern day Ric Flair as a champion. The Strong matches basically revolved around a classic Flair story: Bryan would always get his ass beaten in the power/strike exchanges, usually Strong's chops and he'd have numerous instances of stooging and stalling on the outside to try and work a game plan. Strong was also made to look competent and dangerous in the mat wrestling sections, although Danielson usually managed to find an opening here and seize control. This is probably Strong's peak as a worker though, he had some tremendously brutal offence and was someone the crowd were really invested in to beat Danielson who'd become a collosal egotistical prick. They really manage to make Bryan's asskicking emphatic and his subsequent control section always feels more necessary as a result. The finishing stretches are also really well done compared to modern indy wrestling, a lot more teasing of big moves rather than an abundance of kickouts, and Danielson always had a better set of offence where he never really had a move that you bought as pinning a man, but his bridging suplexes, elbows to the head, small package surprise pin and the cattle mutilation or crossface chickenwing were still bought as potential match enders. 

The match really revolves around Strong trying to lock in the Strong hold, whereas Danielson tries to survive the onslaught, find an opening and then look to finish Strong off either via submission, or later by knockout through his MMA elbows which he famously used to force a ref stoppage in a lot of his defences when he couldn't beat his opponent clean.

Danielson is sensational as a worker to me though. Sure his mat wrestling and knowledge of holds is excellent by US standards, but he's such a smart worker at laying out and structuring his matches (especially in his title reign) and he's so brilliant at switching it up as a face/heel. He works the crowds tremendously throughout his reign and he has so many diverse matches; from the mat wrestling matches against McGuinness and Shelley, to facing bigger/hard hitting wrestlers like Joe and Strong, to facing hybrid wrestlers like KENTA and Aries, to facing lowercard guys and managing to make the fans think they'll be a title switch like Delirious, Storm and Cabana etc.

Trust me if you like classic Flair defences, especially when he wrestles a bigger/stronger opponent I can't see you not digging this match. It goes around 50 minutes, but its one of the Danielson matches where it really feels justified in going that length, rather than a match that would have been better with 15 minutes shaved off. It really allows Danielson to work the crowd by stalling, begging off, constantly trying to find a way to gain control of the match only to fail, then to see him be vicious and cocky in control, then grow fearful as Strong refuses to be put down and then the dramatic finishing stretch with an abundance of well worked nearfalls where the match peaks.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Platt said:


>


Looks great, especially when all the interviews are people who were actually there and not the HHHs and Cenas throwing baseless slogans to make WWE look good against any accomplishment WCW/nWo had. Now the only way they can ruin it is the editing, even in this promo they already started to put as much negative as the positive. If it's unbiased, huge potential on the greatest stable of all time. Waited a long time for this doc. Hopefully Nash/Hall/The Outsiders gets his own DVD next year.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

> already started to put as much negative as the positive


They're telling the story, aint they? NWO had positives and negatives.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cactus said:


> How many TV/PPV matches did Eddie and Rey have in 2005? I've always wanted to check out their entire series. Dates would be preferred as well for TV matches.


Wrestlemania 21: one of their 'worst' matches for me, doesn't come close to Halloween Havoc 1997 or the rest of their 2005 matches.

Then they have a few tags against MNM where they slowly build the story of Eddie growing frustrated and obsessed with beating Rey. Then we get the heel turn and THAT promo in early May.

Judgement Day: probably a top 3 match in the 2005 feud.

Smackdown 6/23: Eddie's obsessison and psychotic breakdown is at its peak here. He's amazing alternating between respectful and trying to beat Rey clean, then becoming a rabid animal trying to castrate Rey when that proves unsuccessful. MOTY for 2005, at worst a top 3 match for WWE 2000-2009 and the best match in Smackdown history.

Great American Bash: Eddie Guerrero at his sleazy best. Mysterio is by no means carried here, but this is truly the Eddie Guerrero show. One of the finest heel and in general performances I've seen. Everything he does is pitch perfect. Top 3 match in the feud.

Pretty sure either before or after GAB Eddie has a 5 minute match with Jimmy Jacobs on Smackdown. Very good for the time it gets and again Eddie steals the show.

Summerslam Ladder Match: lesser match in the series, alongside WM21. Just not what I'd call a great ladder match and there's an awkward spot where Vickie misses her cue.

Smackdown Steel Cage 9/9/05: the feud ender. Eddie at his most desperate best, Mysterio just trying once and for all to end the feud and compound Eddie's misery. Not as good as 6/23, GAB or Judgement Day but I'd say its better than Summerslam or WM21. Not the most violent 'blow off' match, but given what happened at Summerslam it would have been hard to try and top the emotion and hate in that match. Instead it comes off more as a broken Eddie just trying to salvage something from 4 months of misery.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GAB Eddie/Rey is fan-fapping-tastic. I love how they can go out and have great "wrestling" matches such as HH 97 and then have such a massively strong storytelling and character match like GAB 05. Man, if only Eddie was still with us . So many lost matches and feuds that could have potentially been tremendous. Eddie/Punk (would be nice to see with how much Punk has changed since his Indy days), and Eddie/Bryan (oh man, Eddie cheating like mad behind the refs back while Bryan tries to not get angry? GOLD) would top my list along with the obvious Eddie/Undertaker and Eddie/HBK matches.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

KingCal said:


> GAB Eddie/Rey is fan-fapping-tastic. I love how they can go out and have great "wrestling" matches such as HH 97 and then have such a massively strong storytelling and character match like GAB 05. Man, if only Eddie was still with us . So many lost matches and feuds that could have potentially been tremendous. Eddie/Punk (would be nice to see with how much Punk has changed since his Indy days), and Eddie/Bryan (oh man, Eddie cheating like mad behind the refs back while Bryan tries to not get angry? GOLD) would top my list along with the obvious Eddie/Undertaker and Eddie/HBK matches.


Bryan/Eddie would have been unbelievable, just the idea of eddie doing the fake chair spot and lying down smirking behind the referees back while Bryan shouts 'no no no no' while the crowd chant 'yes yes yes yes' makes me smile. 

Damn that would have been great not to mention some of the fun eddie could have had with Jericho during his awesome 09 heel run.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Eddie fiddling around with his tights to loosen them moments after being crotched on the ropes is still one of the most hilarious and wonderful moments I've seen in WWE. Man was just a true performer in every sense of the word.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> After months of negotiating, WWE has finally completed its deal to acquire the tape library of Mid-South Wrestling from the family of Bill Watts.
> 
> WWE will be getting 1,200 hours of Mid-South footage from the late 1970s to the 1980s. The footage was purchased from Bill Watt's ex-wife Ene, who got the footage in her divorce settlement with Watts.
> 
> ...


:mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

OH FUCK YES.

Mid South is one of the finest territories to have ever existed (swear to christ one day Cal I will get Memphis and Mid South from you). People's minds will be blown away watching Jim Duggan in his prime and how fucking great he is, Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express will have people questioning how they could ever consider Hardys/Dudleys/E&C to be the pinnacle of US tag team wrestling, Dibiase vs Flair 1985 :mark: , Jake Roberts vs Flair :mark: , the legendary Wahoo McDaniel vs Flair title match :mark: :mark: :mark:

Calling it now, people's minds will be blown away by Dick Murdoch and Butch Reed should WWE release an actually worthwhile comprehensive overview of Mid South. Might actually watch Flair vs Reed tonight, been ages since I watched it but any match which can make a 25 minute headlock sequence damn enthralling deserves multiple rewatches.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Vengeance 2001:

Matt Hardy Vs Jeff Hardy W/Lita as Special Guest Ref.

**

Disapointing, very slow and plodding.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really need to watch the Eddie/Rey series. Already seen WM21 (which was decent) and SummerSlam (which was slightly better).

For favorite MITB match, it's between WM21 and WM23. SC has already made it clear why WM21 is a contender for the best while the WM23 match is pretty much what MITB is all about... a bunch of crazy spots with a variety of performers all doing their part.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MITB IV and I are the best for me. Just great all around performances and Benjamin being a fucking boss.

I really like the SD '11 one as well. TBH I enjoyed all of them until this year's came around.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> GAB Eddie/Rey is fan-fapping-tastic. I love how they can go out and have great "wrestling" matches such as HH 97 and then have such a massively strong storytelling and character match like GAB 05. Man, if only Eddie was still with us . So many lost matches and feuds that could have potentially been tremendous. Eddie/Punk (would be nice to see with how much Punk has changed since his Indy days), and Eddie/Bryan (oh man, Eddie cheating like mad behind the refs back while Bryan tries to not get angry? GOLD) would top my list along with the obvious Eddie/Undertaker and Eddie/HBK matches.


A big YES to all of those dream feuds and matches. We also never got a proper Eddie/HHH program. I think their only match is the one from the draft episode on Raw in '04. Eddie vs. main event Cena and Orton would be cool too. I even think Eddie could have done wonders for a guy like Ryback. Eddie was that good heel or babyface.


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

MITB from Wm 24 was the best.Great atmosphere,crowd and some awesome moves by Shelton Benjamin.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Eddie/Bryan would have literally been fucking incredible on every level.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Austin/Triple H - 3 Stages Of Hell (NWO2001)

First time i have watched this in nearly 10 years, seen lots of people on here give it close to , if not, 5 Stars, i wouldn't go that far, **** for me, maybe ****1/2 if i watch it again, did what it had to do i suppose, enjoyed the last 2 falls.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

WM23 still remains as my personal favorite MITB followed by WM21.
_______________________

Had a huge Royal Rumble itch yesterday so...

*Royal Rumble 1999

Quick Thoughts: This was really the Austin/McMahon show, which was both a pro and con. Undercard was forgettable but the WWF Heavyweight Title match is well documented. The Rumble itself like I said was the Austin/McMahon show, no one in the match was considered a threat to Austin other than McMahon so it was guaranteed they'd be the final two. A solid show mainly highlighted by Rock/Foley & a decent, but very predictable Rumble match.*



> Road Dogg vs. The Big Boss Man- **
> Mr. Ass vs. Ken Shamrock- **3/4
> X-Pac vs. Gangrel- * (Very short)
> Sable vs. Luna (Strap Match)- *1/2
> ...


___________________________

*Royal Rumble 2000

Quick Thoughts: One of my favorite Rumbles. Tazz still holds one of the top debuts in wrestling history. Hardys/Dudleys put on an insane Tables Match which somehow managed to get topped by HHH/Foley. Bikini Contest was fun (could've done without Mae Young), Triple Threat was decent and Tag Title match was short. The Rumble match was good, unfortunately it didn't hold up for me. HUGE step up from 99 in overall quality.*



> Kurt Angle vs. Tazz- **
> Dudley Boyz vs. Hardy Boyz (Table Match)- ****1/4
> Miss Royal Rumble 2000 Bikini Contest- N/A
> Chyna vs. Chris Jericho vs. Hardcore Holly- **
> ...


_________________________________

*Royal Rumble 2001

Quick Thoughts: This was a great show on par with/above last years. This year was more consistent with a solid undercard and an absolutely amazing ladder match; overbooking killed the Heavyweight Title match though. A great Rumble Match and huge step up from previous years. Personally, Kane made this match for me.*



> Edge & Christian vs. Dudley Boyz- ***1/2
> Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho (Ladder Match)- ****
> Ivory vs. Chyna- *
> Kurt Angle vs. Triple H- ***1/4
> Royal Rumble Match- ****


__________________________________

*Royal Rumble 2002

Quick Thoughts: A very solid show. No standout undercard match this year but some solid stuff overall. The Rumble Match is the real highlight probably my top 5 RR match; everything from the interactions, starpower, consistency and drama put this over the top for me just a fantastic rumble match, predictability aside.*



> Spike Dudley & Tazz vs. Dudley Boyz- **
> Edge vs. William Regal- ***1/4
> Trish Stratus vs. Jazz- *1/4
> Ric Flair vs. Mr. McMahon (Street Fight)- **1/2
> ...


_____________________________

*Royal Rumble 2006

Quick Thoughts: Meh show, Rumble placement was questionable but that shows you how much they care for Rey Jr. Some decent stuff, nothing blowaway but a good deal of bad too which really drags the show. The Rumble match was decent, but Triple H's performance was grand he pretty much carried the brunt of the match on his back, that's fucking impressive.*



> Kid Kash vs. Helms vs. Funaki vs. Noble vs. Nunzio vs. London- **1/4
> Mickie James vs. Ashley Massaro- *1/4
> JBL vs. The Boogeyman- :no:
> Royal Rumble Match- ***1/4
> ...


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

Matt_Yoda said:


> *WM23 still remains as my personal favorite MITB followed by WM21.*
> _______________________
> 
> Had a huge Royal Rumble itch yesterday so...
> ...


Really hated WM23 Crowd.it was dead for the most part.


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

Finished with Austin vs beniot the raw after sutvivor series.helluva match with Austin pulling off some good Techinical moves which he rarely did after his injury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isPBbety2dY


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StonecoldGoat said:


> Finished with Austin vs beniot the raw after sutvivor series.helluva match with Austin pulling off some good Techinical moves which he rarely did after his injury.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isPBbety2dY


Thanks for that, does anyone know the date please?

EDIT - Never mind, 20/11.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*@StonecoldGoat*

Actually, I think it was mic issues because I was there live and trust me it was anything but dead for that Mania lol.


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

You were Live?ok that explains it...On the Dvd It sounded dead.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That Austin/Benoit is really good.

Isn't there a 2005 Rey/Eddie handheld from Australia? I swear there is. I think Cal uploaded it a couple of years ago. No idea if I kept the file. Or.... if the match even really exists.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, match exists, and I did upload it way back when. Actually deleted it from my hard drive about 2 days ago because it was taking up space (along with a bunch of other stuff obviously lol). Still got the show on DVD of course. Its a good match, nothing out of this world. Before Eddie's heel turn. Better than their god awful WM bout.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I don't have it on comp any more. I may have put it on disc in the last year with a bunch of other random 2005 shit. I still don't think WM21 is that bad. Probably prefer it to Michaels/Angle at this point. 

--

How many matches did Danielson and Tyson Kidd have on that new Saturday show? I watched one and it was the worst thing I've seen Danielson in ever. Can't possibly be the one people are actually liking can it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't even know they had a match on Saturday... uhhh... super PG show thingy.

Eddie/Rey WM is easily my least favourite Eddie match. Terrible all round. Angle/HBK looks like Tenryu/Kawada in comparison.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think WM21 is a very underrated show. Angle/HBK, Orton/Undertaker are excellent, MITB is a classic, Eddie/Rey is decent, Batista/HHH is average and Cena/JBL is a bit of a let-down although not as bad as most say it is. It does feel a bit empty when an up and comer like Batista is part of the main drawing match and there's no "big time" attraction (unless you count Piper's Pit with Austin or Hulk Hogan's return).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Danielson doing the Steve Grey 'roll up into a ball' defensive move automatically makes it not the worst thing he's ever done.

Course the new Saturday show has banned neck/head moves (to the point where the camera cuts away when Ryder hits his finisher) so most of the matches seem to be either comedy based or just pure technical to get around the restrictions.

They had a match back on Smackdown last year, think it was after Danielson won MITB and during the time he and Barrett were feuding (Summerslam). Didn't think it was blowaway awesome or anything, but that's the longest match they've had I believe. They might also have been in a mixed tag back in early 2011 on Superstars, I know Bryan teamed with Gail Kim, and I want to say Kidd was one of the opponents but not 100% there.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I'm guessing I'm the only one who likes the new Saturday show? Well I've only see the inaugural episode Kofi vs somebody and it was pretty alright. Very technical. Oh and I am a fan of comedy matches as well. When done right. See Slater/Santino. A mix of comedic elements in that match if you ask me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I haven't seen a single episode of the saturday show. I'll occasionally look to see what matches are on it, and its usually with guys that suck like Kofi, Ryder, Santino etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Cena/HBK match from Raw 2007(Earls Court) match on the My Journey DVD is the full match isn't it? Gonna try and watch it this week (first time lol).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Full match as in no commercials? Don't think that's been released. I think the match is on the other HBK DVD, the one from 2007; Heartbreak something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Full match as in no commercials? Don't think that's been released. I think the match is on the other HBK DVD, the one from 2007; Heartbreak something.


Yeah mate, thinks its on either the My Journey or Heartbreak one, didn't realise it has the commercials included still (its the 1 hour match right?)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, goes somewhere like 47 minutes with commercials, I think.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Survivor Series 2004:*

Spike Dudley vs Billy Kidman vs Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero - ***1/4
- Just what you expect from the cruiserweights. Fast paced action and with four guys, it gets varied between them and they get enough time to make it work. Spike Dudley retains with Kidman's help. And I also like to mention that I really like Mysterio's green outfit here. Wish he would have worn it more often.

Shelton Benjamin vs Christian - ***1/2
- Another good match to follow-up the decent opener by two talented, athletic guys. Shelton retains the IC title after about 15 minutes. This is also the debut of the stylish Captain Charisma with the hoodie and the Waterproof Blond theme which I'm glad to hear. First Edge debuts "Metalingus", now it's Christian's turn to switch that awful theme with something better.

Team Guerrero (Eddie Guerrero, Rob Van Dam, Big Show & John Cena) vs Team Angle (Kurt Angle, Luther Reigns, Mark Jindrak & Carlito) - **3/4
- Nothing special since Angle's team is pretty subpar and the faces are booked too strongly with them having 3 survivors. Funny to think that the year before, Cena was on Angle's team while Big Show was with the heels. Got a chuckle out of Cena mocking Jindrak's ass-shaking, though. :lol

The Undertaker vs Heidenreich - ***3/4
- Wow, I'm surprised at how good this match was. Heidenreich keeps up with Undertaker, looks good in defeat and Taker does his best to carry him into a quality match. Really enjoyed this and probably Taker's second best 04 match after the SD one with John Cena.

Trish Stratus vs Lita - 1/2*
- Not even a match. Lita goes mental on Trish for one minute then gets herself DQ by using a chair. Don't see point in the video package if they were gonna throw it away in one minute just like that. I assume the Raw match in December is a lot better.

JBL vs Booker T - **3/4
- Mostly boring while it lasts but despite the overbooking in the end with Josh Matthews of all people getting involved, it gets better by the end. JBL retains with the usual shenanigans of outside interference, title belts being used and so on. I think they went too far on this one as a simple belt shot after a ref bump would have sufficed.

Team Orton (Randy Orton, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Maven) vs Team HHH (HHH, Batista, Snitsky, Edge) - ***1/2
- A good elimination match to close the PPV with Orton finally getting a one-up on HHH after being screwed out of the World Title previously. Also a great babyface performance by Orton when the odds are stacked against him with HHH & Edge still being in the match while he's on his own. People love to say Orton got silent reactions with his face turn but I see the crowd giving him pretty decent reactions here although not on top babyface levels and that is due to HHH killing all his momentum at Unforgiven, I think.

*Overall:* ***1/2 out of ***** (A pretty good PPV with plenty of good stuff and nothing terrible with the exception of the divas match. Non-Smackdown PPVs have been good in quality for the most part in 2004 and this carries the tradition.)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fucking ADORE the Team HHH vs Team Orton Survivor Series Elimination Match. Such a great ending sequence with Orton and HHH that it's actually awesome. Those last few minutes with HHH and Orton beats everything they've ever done by FAR (even the NM LMS). I remember punching a hole through my wall when team Orton won because I wanted HHH to run Raw and squash like The Hurricane and Rosey again or something for four straight weeks hahaha :hhh

Benjamin-Christian is fucking awesome as well, but then again... Everything that Christian or Benjamin touched at that time period was fucking awesome anyways, so what the hell do you expect here. This is pacing 101, as these two just go out there and tore the fucking house down, should have been the opener actually. I can't decide what I like more, that match or Taker-Heidenreich. Anybody that wants to say that Taker is overrated can go fuck themselves and watch that damn match. MMA Zombie at his finest against a guy with an attempted but much shittier style. Taker rocks


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Orton was pretty over as a face in 04 if I remember right. That was actually the year I got back into wrestling and I thought the Orton/HHH feud was amazing. The build up to Survivor Series and the elimination chamber build up were great. I remember Orton RKOing every member in Evolution in the UK and people were going bananas.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

^KingofKing likes a Triple H match? Ya don't say. 

Anyways I actually sort of liked the Orton face turn with the exception Benoits burial. Then again I was young and accepted most things WWE told me back then. (Hell, I kinda liked the Eugene angle )


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DAT NYR 05 CHAMBER :hhh :hhh :hhh


Seriously, what a fucking match. The second best match with more than 4 participants in it EVER next to the 1992 Royal Rumble of course. Benoit and Jericho are just so fucking awesome in this that words actually can't describe, with Batista being the big unstoppable monster, Orton being the savant that can't wait to get his hands on HHH, HHH being well.... HHH, and Edge being tortured with the idea of HBK being the special guest referee. Everybody has a purpose. Compare it to this year's Raw chamber... What fucking purpose does Kofi Kingston serve in the damn match ? He OBVIOUSLY isn't going to win! He's not going to put on a wrestling clinic like Benoit or Jericho ? WHY?!?!?!?!

Which reminds me... The segment where Michaels gets introduced as Special Guest Referee is awesome, because they really play off the fact that he has history with literally EVERY SINGLE COMPETITOR in the match. They announce it, and all six men just go crazy in the ring, with the show ending on HHH's face saying "NOOO...NOOOO...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :hhh :hhh

God, that was so epic.


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I think WM21 is a very underrated show. Angle/HBK, Orton/Undertaker are excellent, MITB is a classic, Eddie/Rey is decent, Batista/HHH is average and Cena/JBL is a bit of a let-down although not as bad as most say it is. It does feel a bit empty when an up and comer like Batista is part of the main drawing match and there's no "big time" attraction (unless you count Piper's Pit with Austin or Hulk Hogan's return).


Wm 21 felt underrated because it didnt feel like "wrestlemania".It wasnt in a huge stadium like wwe has wrestlemania nowadays so it didnt had that Special feeling.

Wrestlemania should always be in huge stadiums


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I can't decide what I like more, that match or Taker-Heidenreich. Anybody that wants to say that Taker is overrated can go fuck themselves and watch that damn match. MMA Zombie at his finest against a guy with an attempted but much shittier style. Taker rocks


I prefer Taker-Heidenreich. Heidenreich really upped his game for this one because the only thing I could think of when it came to him was the Michael Cole segment, the goofy "poems" and him injuring Stevie Richards twice in one month (in 03), lol. The crowd was also a bit better for Taker's match while I felt they were mostly dead for Shelton-Christian.



StonecoldGoat said:


> Wm 21 felt underrated because it didnt feel like "wrestlemania".It wasnt in a huge stadium like wwe has wrestlemania nowadays so it didnt had that Special feeling.
> 
> Wrestlemania should always be in huge stadiums


Erm, to me the Hollywood centered set-up pretty much screams Wrestlemania. What makes it feel a bit underwhelming is the lack of big star match. Angle/HBK was the typical interpromotional "dream" match, MITB was innovative but the main two drawing matches were the title matches with the only guy being close to a draw at the time being HHH. I guess it also helps it in a way since WM21 put over the stars of the following years when Batista, Cena, Edge and Orton all got a huge rub from their WM matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The hell? Other people thinking Taker/Heidenrape is good? :mark:

Love Christian/Benjamin too. A favourite match of mine.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I loved WrestleMania 21. One of the best MITB matches in terms of match quality and starpower and Edge winning was great and the right decision, but I would of loved to see Christian won that with how good he was at the time. Shelton or Benoit would of been good winners too imo. Really enjoyed Micheals/Angle and Orton/Undertaker matches. Batista/HHH was decent to me and I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be, maybe it's because I really enjoyed their feud so much at the time with Batista finally breaking away from Evolution. JBL/Cena was a bit of a letdown, with how personal their feud was I felt it should of been a hardcore match or something. I enjoyed the Hollywood theme and Hogan returning was a good moment and Piper's pit was enjoyable.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena and JBL made up for it at Judgement day, It should still have been better though. That Mania as said lacked that 'Marquee' match IMO. Rock vs HBK should have happened


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I liked Wrestlemania 21 as well, overall I would say that I actually enjoyed it much more than Wrestlemania 22. WM21 felt like a Wrestlemania to me and it had one of my favorite RTWMs while honestly, WM22 didn't feel nearly as big from a spectacle standpoint and I found WM22's build up to be "lacking".


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> DAT NYR 05 CHAMBER :hhh :hhh :hhh
> 
> 
> Seriously, what a fucking match. The second best match with more than 4 participants in it EVER next to the 1992 Royal Rumble of course. Benoit and Jericho are just so fucking awesome in this that words actually can't describe, with Batista being the big unstoppable monster, Orton being the savant that can't wait to get his hands on HHH, HHH being well.... HHH, and Edge being tortured with the idea of HBK being the special guest referee. Everybody has a purpose. Compare it to this year's Raw chamber... What fucking purpose does Kofi Kingston serve in the damn match ? He OBVIOUSLY isn't going to win! He's not going to put on a wrestling clinic like Benoit or Jericho ? WHY?!?!?!?!
> ...


I don't know why, but for some reason this post makes me miss JDMan. 

Taker/Heidenreich is great. ***3/4 for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Taker/Angle - NWO 2006, first time in ages I have seen it, well what a fucking match, simply stunning piece of work from both, should have been at Mania but fuck it im just so glad it happened, it is 5 stars? Possibly, if not bloody close. 

Love the Taker throwing Angle into the steps and Angle bouncing his face off the table debris spot.

Bit random, but now im watching RVD vs Sabu (stretcher match) lol.


----------



## DenGal (Feb 10, 2009)

Why didnt WWE make bank with money for Wrestlemania 20-22 they were all in regular size arenas. They missed out on big pay days for 3 years.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

DenGal said:


> Why didnt WWE make bank with money for Wrestlemania 20-22 they were all in regular size arenas. They missed out on big pay days for 3 years.


Because they were repeating the original Wrestlemania trifecta; New York, LA & Chicago


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

triple h vs John cena Night of champions 2008 Awesome Match.Excellent build up and had that big match feel.

Always loved Triple h/Cena matches.


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

DenGal said:


> Why didnt WWE make bank with money for Wrestlemania 20-22 they were all in regular size arenas. They missed out on big pay days for 3 years.


This.I never like Wrestlemania in small arenas it takes that X-factor away.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Just ordered Royal Rumble 2004. Any thoughts on the event? Heard it was pretty meh, but I always love the Rumble match itself so will prob still enjoy and Benoit wins which is pretty epic.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rumble '04 is pretty great just for the RR.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

No love for Lesnar/Bob Holly?

:batista4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's worth it just for the Rumble match. HBK/HHH is okay but nothing great and the rest of the show is pretty much skippable. But the last one hour is well worth it!


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2004

Quick Thoughts: A two match show; the total amount of time on the undercard got like 35-40 minutes total, lots of short matches. The WHC Match was really the only standout on the undercard. The Rumble was really good as well strengthened by the draft as you saw a lot RAW vs. Smackdown combos, a rare occassion.*

Dudley Boyz vs. Ric Flair & Dave Batista- **
Rey Mysterio vs. Jamie Noble- *1/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chavo Guerrero- **3/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Hardcore Holly- **
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing Match)- ****
Royal Rumble Match- ****


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, I need to check this one out. Was it really that damn good? I'm not a big Roderick Strong fan and quite frankly D-Bryan's in-ring work doesn't impress me like it does most people. I'm not denying the guy's technical abilities but to me that's not all that makes someone a great wrestler. As a matter of fact, knowledge of holds has absolutely nothing to do with being a great wrestler/worker. They're the same thing in my opinion, wrestler and worker. Cause when you're wrestling a match you're basically working.
> 
> But yeah, the names you just listed this match sounds like a blow the fucking gasket match. It sounds like a match where it starts of with some chain wrestling for the sake of chain wrestling and then it just fucking blows. It just evolves into nothing but stiff kicks and head dropping and near falls.


so I'm a bit late on this obvs but yo, shut up. nobody thinks you're cool for dismissing every single indy wrestling match ever out of hand. nobody. you look like a fucking moron trying to get the cool kids to like you by saying things suck. you shit on Davey/Eddie from Final Battle for fucking pages like that gets you some kind of cred when it's really digging up a dead horse so everyone can see how cool you are for beating it.

maybe if you stopped watching indy matches with the intention of looking for things to complain about people would actually take you seriously. maybe if you quit hating things you haven't even watched people might listen when you talk. maybe if you'd try and understand why people like things you'd enjoy them, and it's a lot more fun to like things than to hate them.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> As a matter of fact, knowledge of holds has absolutely nothing to do with being a great wrestler/worker. They're the same thing in my opinion, wrestler and worker. Cause when you're wrestling a match you're basically working.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Undertaker/HBK - WM26 for the first time since I watched it live, still as great as back then, I still prefer WM25 though tbh, I just think it flowed slightly better and I enjoyed it more as a match, but I loved the millions of finishers in the rematch.

Two bonafide classics.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Undertaker's performance at WrestleMania 26 is one of the greatest I've ever seen. It still fascinates me how they came with an injury angle to start the most critical match of their careers in the main event of WrestleMania. It was absolutely brilliant.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Just ordered Royal Rumble 2004. Any thoughts on the event? Heard it was pretty meh, but I always love the Rumble match itself so will prob still enjoy and Benoit wins which is pretty epic.


Hey, I just watched that PPV. It is full on garbage until the Rumble match. Seems like a decent segway into...


*Royal Rumble 2004*


1) *World Tag Team Championship* - *Tables Match*:
Ric Flair & Batista(c) vs Dudley Boys ~ DUD


2) *WWE Cruiserweight Championship*:
Rey Mysterio(c) vs Jamie Noble ~ *


3) Eddie Guerrero vs Chavo Guerrero Jr. ~ DUD


4) *WWE Championship*:
Brock Lesnar(c) vs Bob Holly ~ DUD


5) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Last Man Standing Match*:
Triple H(c) vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***


6) *Royal Rumble Match*:
Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton vs Mark Henry vs Yoshihiro Tajiri vs Bradshaw vs Rhyno vs Matt Hardy vs Scott Steiner vs Matt Morgan vs The Hurricane vs Booker T vs Kane vs Spike Dudley vs Rikishi vs Rene Dupree vs A-Train vs Shelton Benjamin vs Ernest Miller vs Kurt Angle vs Rico Constantino vs Mick Foley vs Christian vs Nunzio vs Big Show vs Chris Jericho vs Charlie Haas vs Billy Gunn vs John Cena vs Rob Van Dam vs Bill Goldberg ~ ***3/4​

While the Rumble match sort of saved the show...I hope you didn't spend too much on this.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2007 may have been the last strong Royal Rumble card (based on performance). Lashley/Test was the only average match but Hardys/MNM hot tag team opener, Batista/Kennedy which is much better than you would initially think, a fantastic Cena/Umaga LMS, and the Rumble match with the best final two showdown ever made for a good PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I put that PPV on a pedestal, tbhayley. Like you said, block out the 10 minutes of air time that focused on the crappy Lashley/Test match and you have a near-perfect PPV.

Undertaker winning is still :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah, the Royal Rumble match pretty much saved that show. Benoit's performance in that match was great and I loved the way how he eliminated Big Show to end it (one of the best eliminations I've seen). Orton was great in that match too until he got taken out by Foley (which was good because it lead to their awesome match they had at Backlash 2004).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RR 2004 was an awesome story-developer too. Benoit fulfilled his destiny in becoming a World Champion (which no one deserved more than him at the time), The Deadman sent his first cryptic message to come back at Kane after the Buried Alive match (even though it didn't make much sense when Kane interfered in the Vince match), Foley returned to give Orton a taste of his own medicine after the spitting, Brock Lesnar killed Goldberg's minute of destroying everyone in the ring (which lead to their horrific match but awesome build-up) and it was just a very fun Rumble with memorable moments such as Ernest Miller using Brodus Clay's music before him, Nunzio being a funny goofball plus more. I rate it at ****1/2.

Also, going back to Survivor Series 04, I just noticed the "Haha Batista can't get over" sign during the main event which is pretty funny. After a couple of minutes of flashing, security guy turns up, takes the sign and rips it in front of the camera. Also funny that it was brought up a few months before Batista got over and headlined Wrestlemania 21.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Is it just me or is the Big Show - John Cena match at No Way Out underrated? It was booked very well because we didn't get the typical super cena comeback instead, Cena needed help to win. In fact, Big Show actually knocked out Cena clean and would have won the match if it weren't for interferences. The storyline was bad but the match was very well booked IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forgot about the (very brief) hints at the upcoming pushes for Shelton Benjamin & Rene Dupree. They were put over on commentary when they came out and the like. Which was odd since both were stuck in tag teams that were floating around. Maybe it was simply a coincidence, nonetheless it played out perfectly within the coming months following the Rumble.

No, Cena/Show isn't underrated. It was decent personified by a feud not one non-casual fan cared about. **.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> No, Cena/Show isn't underrated. It was decent personified by a feud not one non-casual fan cared about. **.


 Yeah, I know. I did say that the actual storyline sucked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which led to nobody caring about the match when it went down. I.E., not underrated. It's simply there. Begs the question why Ace wasn't canned at Over The Limit since heel Show couldn't even beat Cena with the momentum on his side.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Begs the question why Ace wasn't canned at Over The Limit since heel Show couldn't even beat Cena with the momentum on his side.


 Maybe it was an excuse to turn Show heel?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pondered that. Also the scenario where HHH finally convinced Vince to let Ace lose his importance backstage, and on screen, so NWO was the result of the politics and ended the Ace/Show association right there.

Either or I'd imagine. Which is awful any way you slice it. We all know why. I'll beat the dead horse like everyone else online with the "Cena/Ace would have been tolerable enough as long as it didn't go after Punk/Danielson" stuff. Although "tolerable enough" really means it's utter crap, but at least it didn't main event.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Clique said:


> Undertaker's performance at WrestleMania 26 is one of the greatest I've ever seen. It still fascinates me how they came with an injury angle to start the most critical match of their careers in the main event of WrestleMania. It was absolutely brilliant.


What fascinates me more is how genius the setup was. It wasn't a blatantly obvious slip by Taker which would have made it hard to buy as legit, the only thing making anyone question whether it was an angle or real was the fact that by and large wrestling always creates that never-ending suspicion of what is real and what isn't. 

To me there was just this perfect balance between work and shoot, on the one hand its the main event of Wrestlemania which the entire show has been built around, so the suspicion its a work was always prevelant. However it was probably the most convincing they could have made it, given Taker was running through a rudementary sequence of moves before coming down 'awkwardly' off of the top rope. The way he sort of winced in pain upon impact but still continued on offence only added to the suspicion that it might have been an unplanned spot.

Of course the way they then worked it into a callback from the year before with HBK faking Taker out with a superkick attempt in order to force him to show his injury was brilliant. HBK trying the same trick the year before and therefore playing in Michaels' mind was again just majestic storytelling.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*WWE Armageddon 2000

Quick Thoughts: This was a decent show, nothing bad it was pretty much consistent for the most part. The main event was fun for the spectacle but largely forgettable. You couldn't have paid me enough to do that Rikishi spot and he's 400 pounds which makes it worse; weird enough Kurt wounded up looking the weakest in this match and he was not only the champ, but retained as well.*

The Radicalz & Terri vs. Hardy Boyz & Lita (Intergender Elimination Match)- **
William Regal vs. Hardcore Holly- **1/2
Chyna vs. Val Venis- *1/4
Chris Jericho vs. Kane (Last Man Standing Match)- **1/2
Right to Censor vs. Edge & Christian vs. Dudley Boyz vs. Kwik N' Dogg- **3/4
Billy Gunn vs. Chris Benoit- **
Ivory vs. Trish Stratus vs. Molly Holly- *
Angle vs. Rock vs. Austin vs. HHH vs. Taker vs. Rikishi (Hell in a Cell Match)- ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Has there ever been a forum more full of incoherent, nonsensical ramblings than the GOAT thread ? I swear to god, reading some of the bitch fights in there makes me kind of ashamed to be a wrestling fan at times. It has basically degenerated into another merch/ratings/Rock vs Austin thread, and it has really pissed me off. If I don't stop reading it, I'm just going to lose my mind and stab some innocent bystander 

I posted a long piece about Flair being the greatest of all time based off of pure wrestling ability, the quality of matches he's had over the years, his charisma/mic skills, etc, and it just got completely IGNORED by a bunch of blind Rock/Austin fans who can't appreciate what it takes to be the rightful greatest of all time. 

ANYWHOWAYS. Can somebody tell me what MANIACS voted for HBK-Bret WM XII to be on the top 100 WWF/WWE matches ever ? It's almost as bad (well, not really , not really close at all ) as voting for Hogan-Andre or something. I can name about 1000 WWF/WWE matches more deserving of being on the list than that one. Starting the rewatching and the reranking today and rest assured, I can't think of a scenario where that's any higher than number 100 .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I haven't even bothered with that thread simply by the name. It's just asking for trouble.

As for the Ironman match from WrestleMania 12...who the hell knows. WWE constantly puts it over as a "legendary" match only because Hart/Michaels worked 61 minutes. It's the definintion of a boring, lazy match. Lazy might be an ironic word to use, but it fits so well. Both have had WAY better. At a WrestleMania too. Always. always, always lolz hard whenever employees put that match over as one of the best they've ever seen. I own a Backlund/Hogan match that rapes the hell out of that dull affair _(Hogan's unreleased collector's edition set)_ yet a good portion of the "WWE Universe" would still select Hart/Michaels simply because it's more mainstream.

It's like how Hogan/Sting from Starrcade '97 made the Starrcade set. Simply due to the significant of the bout at the time. Sadly, the reflection of how the match turns out means nothing when voting.

I'll praise and slam a Hogan match all in the same post to get a point across. How do you like that? Weird, wild stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I remember being SO fucking pumped for that DVD. I used to mark out hard-fucking-core for Hogan and thought he was the greatest ever.... Until I started, you know, THINKING. Got it for Christmas and loved the matches vs Rude and Savage. Might rewatch them sometime to see what's up with those matches nowadays.

I love this "re-ranking the top 100" project , as it allows me to watch basically the best WWF/WWE matches that I've never seen. I have 26 of them not ranked on record, so basically I want to know... Which out of these 3 should I watch tonight ?

Finlay-Benoit 5/5/06
Benoit-Regal Vel 05
HBK-Jericho WM XIX


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a fun set. I mean you either can still enjoy Hogan matches or you can't, you know? Plus you get gems on there like match vs Backlund and other fun ones vs Rude(like you mentioned) & Haku, his 2002 run, etc.

FUCK. Man, that's a hard list to pick. I almost say you should watch all 3, haha. Since it's the least vivid in my mind go with Benoit/Regal from Velocity. See how it compares to their match at No Mercy 2006.


----------



## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

i just watched the punk/cena money in the bank wwe title match from last year off punk's dvd. the match held up to memory for sure, but one thing i did notice that somehow escaped me at the time: the horrible job cole, king, and booker t did from the announce table. holy christ were they bad. incessant cena ass kissing the entire match and giving credit to cena for shit he wasn't even doing. punk hit cena with the gts in the belly near the ropes and cena fell through the ropes to the floor. king and booker t take turns giving cena credit for leaving the ring so he can't get pinned. cole was making stupid mistakes like he's blind and/or retarded. del rio came into the ring at the end to cash in money in the bank and punk did his trademark kick to the back of his head to knock him out. cole called it "a big right hand from punk" or words to that effect.

how long has cole been the #1 play by play guy now and he's calling a kick a punch during the best match of the year? he made multiple mistakes in between all the cena ass kissing. king should never come back cuz he sucks ass on commentary and booker t should never be on commentary during important matches. he can be fun on smackdown, but sucks when it's a serious big match. plus he comes across as really dumb. he's like a toy doll that has a few catchphrases it says when you press it's belly. otherwise, he's completely useless.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Has there ever been a forum more full of incoherent, nonsensical ramblings than the GOAT thread ? I swear to god, reading some of the bitch fights in there makes me kind of ashamed to be a wrestling fan at times. It has basically degenerated into another merch/ratings/Rock vs Austin thread, and it has really pissed me off. If I don't stop reading it, I'm just going to lose my mind and stab some innocent bystander


They're mostly idiots, yeah. BC Hunk is the worst poster on the forum. I want a pinned Rock v Austin thread so that fucking garbage can be kept in one place. Hell, create a new forum and dump all of those fools over there. I've put most of them on my ignore list by this point so I open up a page and see like two replies. I really have no problem with people comparing ratings and merchandise and drawing figures but the posts are just....yuck.

The Michaels/Hart Iron Man is a good match, but it does get too much support by some people. There are others that I don't think give it enough credit, though. Survivor Series 92 is pretty boring; I liked Bret in it but Shawn wasn't a good singles wrestler until like 94. IDR SSeries 97, but no Michaels/Bret really does THAT for me (you know....THAT). I think Michaels had better chemistry with Owen than with Bret.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Hailsabin said:


> Hey, I just watched that PPV. It is full on garbage until the Rumble match. Seems like a decent segway into...
> 
> 
> *Royal Rumble 2004*
> ...



£2 and prob only going to watch the LMS en Rumble itself so isn't to bad of a price  Thanks for the ratings


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No problem. It was a solid way for me to begin my snowflakes analysis on WWE 2004 PPVs anyways. Worked out for the both of us.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> What fascinates me more is how genius the setup was. It wasn't a blatantly obvious slip by Taker which would have made it hard to buy as legit, the only thing making anyone question whether it was an angle or real was the fact that by and large wrestling always creates that never-ending suspicion of what is real and what isn't.
> 
> To me there was just this perfect balance between work and shoot, on the one hand its the main event of Wrestlemania which the entire show has been built around, so the suspicion its a work was always prevelant. However it was probably the most convincing they could have made it, given Taker was running through a rudementary sequence of moves before coming down 'awkwardly' off of the top rope. The way he sort of winced in pain upon impact but still continued on offence only added to the suspicion that it might have been an unplanned spot.
> 
> Of course the way they then worked it into a callback from the year before with HBK faking Taker out with a superkick attempt in order to force him to show his injury was brilliant. HBK trying the same trick the year before and therefore playing in Michaels' mind was again just majestic storytelling.


I love the subtle things Undertaker implements into his matches. If you go back to re-watch his run from '05 - today you can see how smart of a worker he is (when I say you I mean anyone). Undertaker is one of the best sellers of a war of a match and he has proven it time and time again from his WrestleMania epics to the matches where he makes giants & monsters look unstoppable. Another one of the beautiful aspects of the Undertaker/Shawn Michaels matches is how strong their chemistry together is to the point where a point or a move that wasn't "perfectly executed" looks incredible in the match and becomes a part of the story. For instance, Undertaker's suicide dive at WM25 and Michaels' moonsault at WM26. Both moves weren't quite executed as intended yet both are two of the biggest moments that played into the story and made the match even more dramatic. My Top 2 favorite matches ever.


----------



## ShinyaNaKano56 (Aug 17, 2012)

I have these dvd's for sale, help me get rid of it!!!

(WWEB005IT) History Of Wrestlemania I-IX **
(WWE1056) Best Of Confidential Volume 1
(WWE1069) Royal Rumble 2004
(WWE1073) From The Vault - Shawn Michaels
(WWE1086) Unforgiven 2004
(WWE1097IT) New Year's Revolution 2005 **
(WWE1106IT) Royal Rumble 2005 **
(WWE1107IT) No Way Out 2005 **
(WWE1109) Wrestlemania 21
(WWE1110IT) Backlash 2005 **
(WWE1136IT) Backlash 2006 **
(WWE1138IT) Judgment Day 2006 **
(WWE1140IT) ECW One Night Stand 2006 & ECW Barely Legal **
(WWE1145IT) Summerslam 2006 **
(WWE1148IT) Cyber Sunday 2006 **
(WWE95041) Wrestlemania 28 (NTSC REGION 1) - New Sealed

** Please note, these WWE DVD's (the ones with this symbol **) are Italian versions. The differences with standard version are:
1) The code: example WWEB005IT instead of WWEB005
2) Cover and menus are written in Italian
All the other things are the same of the english version
The Italian versions are for true collectors!!!


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Cal, got them RAW 98/99 dics this morning. Smashing job.

Have you got all the PPV's from 98/99 on dic?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> ANYWHOWAYS. Can somebody tell me what MANIACS voted for HBK-Bret WM XII to be on the top 100 WWF/WWE matches ever ? It's almost as bad (well, not really , not really close at all ) as voting for Hogan-Andre or something. I can name about 1000 WWF/WWE matches more deserving of being on the list than that one. Starting the rewatching and the reranking today and rest assured, I can't think of a scenario where that's any higher than number 100 .


Vivalabrave - #55
Sterling - #85
Clique - #5

Those were the 3 people I could find that voted for it, but there HAD to have been more for it to end up with as many points as it got (then again, I think Andy gave more points to matches that got top 5 votes and shit so who the hell knows, the drunken bastard. Which is why I am doing the points polling for them now ).



The-Rock-Says said:


> Cal, got them RAW 98/99 dics this morning. Smashing job.
> 
> Have you got all the PPV's from 98/99 on dic?


Nice one . 

Nope, don't have them. Only 98/99 PPV's I have are:

Royal Rumble 1998 (Anthology Version)
WrestleMania 14 (Tagged Classic version)
Rock Bottom: In Your House (Attitude Collection version)
Royal Rumble 1999 (Anthology Version) 
WrestleMania 15 (Original 2 disc release) 
WWF In our House 28: Backlash (Tagged Classics Version)
Over the Edge 1999 
Fully Loaded 1999 (Tagged Classic Version) 
SummerSlam 1999 (Original release)
WWF Armageddon 1999 (Tagged Classics Version)

And they are all on proper DVD except for OTE 99 which obviously wasn't officially released.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cal or KOK, any chance you could PM me the list or link me to the page with the list on, please. I want to check it out >_>


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Cal or KOK, any chance you could PM me the list or link me to the page with the list on, please. I want to check it out >_>


http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/wetop100wwfecomp.html


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Wrestlemania XX
Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - ******

Beautiful match. The aftermath is truly heartbreaking though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> *Wrestlemania XX
> Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - ******
> 
> Beautiful match. The aftermath is truly heartbreaking though.


Fixed for ya 8*D

****3/4 for it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Fixed for ya 8*D
> 
> ****3/4 for it.


The pure angst of HHH in the crossface at the end for over a fucking minute is awesome. Will he tap or get out of it....................and then he finally taps lol. JR losing his voice like a boss owns too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Had HBK used the crossface before that match? Pretty cool way for him to win the WHC like that 8*D.

Seriously though, was awesome to see HHH tap the fuck out after his reign of terror from mid 02-04.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Is it just me or is the Big Show - John Cena match at No Way Out underrated? It was booked very well because we didn't get the typical super cena comeback instead, Cena needed help to win. In fact, Big Show actually knocked out Cena clean and would have won the match if it weren't for interferences. The storyline was bad but the match was very well booked IMO.


I know I'm in the minority but I really enjoyed this match too. Things started off slow but it established Show as a monster and Cena as the underdog. It's your typical formulaic Cena performance spiced up with some sweet bumping from both men. This really gets good around the time the interference happens. Overbooked fun that will leave you wondering what will happen next. ★★★½


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The reign of terror made the tap out that much sweeter. Same for Batista finally pinning him the next year. I'm going to watch some more of Mania XX when I get back from work. I'm already going to be late for talking about this though lol. See ya.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

HHH is a proper jobber at WM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only other things you need to watch from WM XX are Jericho/Christian (****1/2 from me, the match that made me a Christian fan) and Undertaker/Kane (Only **1/2 or something, but DAMN at Undertaker's return). Nowt else on the show is that good imo. Angle/Eddie was pretty bad (not many people agree with me though), Lesnar/Goldberg was hilariously bad, Rock & Sock Vs Evolution was shitty (again, not many people agree with me. Rock has never been good and he was rusty as shit. Foley was in terrible shape. Flair, despite having some great performances in 03+ in WWE just wasn't "on" here. Batista was still green as shit. Orton was the best guy in the match).


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


> HHH is a proper jobber at WM.


What are you talking about, he done BERRIED the Crossface as a finisher. Didn't tap out for almost two full minutes. Also he only lost so he could win it back after Benoit dropped the title to jobber-Orton. :hhh


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Rock/Sock/Evolution WM20 - ****. Rock was great as usual, came back like he never left with a dominating performance. The Rock/Flair exchanges were tremendous. Pure entertainment and solidified the mistake of not doing Rock/Flair 1-1 even more(With Foley/Orton also 1-1). Foley was in better shape here than he was at WM16. Orton and Batista did a very good job with the lack of experience on a big stage. 



NearFall said:


> What are you talking about, he done BERRIED the Crossface as a finisher. Didn't tap out for almost two full minutes. Also he only lost so he could win it back after Benoit dropped the title to jobber-Orton. :hhh


I think you mean waited 3 minutes just to cover a hot babyface Booker T after ONE Pedigree, in the process makes him look like such a beast that you would think he could squash 80s Hogan.

:hhh


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

The Rock N Sock match at WM 20 is brilliant.

Lance Storm raves about that match


> Flair, Batista, Orton vs. Rock & Sock Connection: This match personifies what this business is all about. For all those people on Twitter that keep asking me about favorite moves or finishers, and don't understand when I say it's not about moves or finishers, this match is your explanation. This was an incredible match that had the people excited the whole way through and consisted of very little outside of punches and clotheslines. Wrestling is about making fans care about the people involved and then taking them through the emotional back and forth struggle of combat. The crowd popped like crazy through out this match because of the emotional changing of the tide of the match not because guys did specific moves. The People's Elbow spot with Ric Flair and The Rock should be studied by everyone in the business today so they can learn how do to this business right. The finish was another "the business the way it's supposed to be" moment. The veteran put over the future star… CLEAN, and they both sold it like it was significant and it meant something. Foley didn't shrug it off smiling, the announcers didn't send it to the back, and Orton fell to his knees with excitement and relief that he had managed to defeat such an iconic figure. This match and finish needs to be watched, studied, and explained to everyone "writing" wrestling today, because this is what pro-wrestling is all about.



****


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Man, there are a ton of matches I'd point to as necessary to be studied so people can understand how to work a character/gimmick or pull a crowd into a match, but that tag really isn't close to what I'd cite as mandatory viewing. There was a big buzz since it was Rock's first match back in just under a year, Foley/Orton had been building for 4 months and between Flair, Foley and Rock you had three guys the crowd were just bound to eat up. Its a case of performers being charismatic enough to get away with a bare essentials match, but people like Jerry Lawler, Bill Dundee, Terry Funk and Arn Anderson are charismatic enough to excite a crowd without having to kill themselves in the ring, yet they also managed to create far better matches on top of their performances. Christian/Jericho and the main event are the two best matches from Wrestlemania 20, everything else is skippable although the tag is entertaining enough to serve a small purpose...but excellent? Not a chance.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Platt said:


>


Documentary looks interesting. I just wish they could get new interviews with Hogan and Bischoff. Too bad they are working with TNA right now. Same with Sting. It would also have been nice to hear from Scott on this doc too. Tony S. was there from beginning to end too covering the events on commentary.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cactus said:


> I know I'm in the minority but I really enjoyed this match too. Things started off slow but it established Show as a monster and Cena as the underdog. It's your typical formulaic Cena performance spiced up with some sweet bumping from both men. This really gets good around the time the interference happens. Overbooked fun that will leave you wondering what will happen next. ★★★½


 Agree. I think people hate on it mainly because of the storyline. As I said before, it wasn't the typical super Cena comeback because John Cena needed help from 4 people to beat the Big Show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I never even watched Show/Cena cage. They've had a bazillion matches together in the past with maybe only 2 that are worth seeing. So another match with a horrible storyline attached to it didn't make me want to see it. Add on to that the fact that cage matches on PPV 99% of the time absolutely fucking suck these days... there is zero chance of me ever watching it tbh.


----------



## DenGal (Feb 10, 2009)

KingCal said:


> I never even watched Show/Cena cage. They've had a bazillion matches together in the past with maybe only 2 that are worth seeing. So another match with a horrible storyline attached to it didn't make me want to see it. Add on to that the fact that cage matches on PPV 99% of the time absolutely fucking suck these days... there is zero chance of me ever watching it tbh.


WM 20 match was fun to watch


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Watching some stuff from december 2001.

The booker T/Austin feud is :lmao

I almost died watching the church skits with booker playing bingo and hiding in the confesional with the hot chick confessing. Booker manages to escape with a group of Nuns :lmao

Honestly prefer this over their supermarket brawl 4 days earlier.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *Wrestlemania XX
> Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - ******
> 
> Beautiful match. The aftermath is truly heartbreaking though.


The aftermath has only made it that much more emotional to watch. Still the greatest ending to a Wrestlemania IMO.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

WrestleMania XX is like an okay 3 hour movie that could have been a great 2 hour movie. It has more dead weight than any other major PPV I've seen. Cut out the two tag title matches, the first Divas match, the Cruiserwight open, Jesse Ventura coming out for no reason, and the card looks like this:

*Triple-Threat Match for the World Heavyweight Championship*
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit

The Undertaker vs. Kane

*WWE Championship*
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle

Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar

*Women's Championship*
Victoria vs. Molly Holly

The Rock & Sock Connection vs. Evolution

Chris Jericho vs. Christian

*United States Championship*
The Big Show vs. John Cena

Cut out 3 minutes of Cena/Show and make it more of a sprint, move Goldberg/Lesnar closer to the top and make sure they have an actual fucking match, and you have a lean card with one filler, a hot opener, a good undercard, and four legitimate main events.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


> The Rock N Sock match at WM 20 is brilliant.
> 
> Lance Storm raves about that match
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree with him more. Especially on the bold part. That was such a brilliant exchange with nothing more than taunts and an elbow. Nothing better than Rock and Flair in that aspect. Rock had this unique, rare ability to make any crowd 100% invested in every move he did. He worked the crowd into his matches like nobody else with everything he performed. That was the definition of fun and entertainment, what this business is all about. One of the best workers of all time. But this is a lost art today, you don't have anybody that can put on a performance and really a legit show with his match. It's all going out there, doing the holds, doing the moves, finish segment and that's it, TVs and PPVs. 

On another note, I really wanted to see Rock selling an RKO, he sold two great Batista Bombs(RAW and WM)but I would have loved to see him bump with that RKO like only he can.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*WWE Summerslam 2001

Quick Thoughts: Despite my dislike of this angle this was a damn good show. Consistency up and down the card with 3 great matches to boot; that cage match irks me every time I see it though.*

Lance Storm vs. Edge- ****
Spike Dudley & APA vs. Test & Dudley Boyz- **
X-Pac vs. Tajiri- **1/2
Chris Jericho vs. Rhyno- ***
Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam (Ladder Match)- ****
Undertaker & Kane vs. DDP & Kanyon (Cage Match)- :no:
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle- ****
The Rock vs. Booker T- ***1/2
_________________________

*WWE Unforgiven 2001

Quick Thoughts: A pretty meh show, nothing really stood out other than Jericho/RVD and the main event was decent, Edge & Christian was passable, the opener was fun, lots of filler and of course BOD/Kronik... yeah.*

Dudley Boyz vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Storm & Helms vs. Big Show & Spike- **3/4
Raven vs. Saturn- *
Edge vs. Christian- **
Undertaker & Kane vs. Kronik- :lol
Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho- ****
The Rock vs. Booker T & Shane O'Mac- **
Tajiri vs. Rhyno- *
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle- ***
_________________________

*WWE No Mercy 2001

Quick Thoughts: I remember ratings and buyrates plummeting during this time so they did the whole "New WWF" deal... mmhmm. Decent show nothing bad per se; some solid matches, fun lingerie match, decent ladder match (how many did they have that year damn), an epic match with Rock/Y2J and a good main event. I will say that they buried the absolute fuck out of Booker.*

Hardy Boyz vs. Lance Storm & Hurricane- **1/2
Kane vs. Test- **
Stacy Keibler vs. Torrie Wilson (Lingerie Match)- N/A
Edge vs. Christian (Ladder Match)- ***1/2
Dudley Boyz vs. Big Show & Tajiri- **1/4
Undertaker vs. Booker T- *
The Rock vs. Chris Jericho- ****1/4+
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam- ***
___________________

*WWE Survivor Series 2001

Quick Thoughts: Meh show, saddled with the pointless "you'll be fired unless you got a title" stip because well, no one got fired. A couple of good matches, the finish to Hardys/Dudleys irked me like really Jeff? The SS tag match was nice really picked up towards the end.*

Christian vs. Al Snow- **
William Regal vs. Tajiri- *
Edge vs. Test- **1/2
Hardy Boyz vs. Dudley Boyz (Steel Cage)- ***
Immunity Battle Royal- **
Trish vs. Lita vs. Jazz vs. Jacqueline vs. Ivory vs. Molly- *1/2
Team WWF vs. Team Alliance (Survivor Series Elimination Match)- ***1/2
____________________________

*WWE Vengeance 2001

Quick Thoughts: Passable, a bunch of decent matches some forgettable matches and another great showcase between Rock & Jericho. WWF tried hard to hit the reset button after SS, but it just wasn't working.*

Christian & Test vs. Scotty 2 Hotty & Albert- *3/4
Edge vs. William Regal- **
Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy- **
Dudley Boyz vs. Big Show & Kane- **
Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam (Hardcore Match)- **3/4
Trish Stratus vs. Jacqueline- *
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle- **
The Rock vs. Chris Jericho- ****
Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho- **


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The-Rock-Says said:


> HHH is a proper jobber at WM.


Trips knows what's up. Bury all year and then do the job at the grandest stage to make a star. Take notes Y2J lol. 



KingCal said:


> Only other things you need to watch from WM XX are Jericho/Christian (****1/2 from me, the match that made me a Christian fan) and Undertaker/Kane (Only **1/2 or something, but DAMN at Undertaker's return). Nowt else on the show is that good imo. Angle/Eddie was pretty bad (not many people agree with me though), Lesnar/Goldberg was hilariously bad, Rock & Sock Vs Evolution was shitty (again, not many people agree with me. Rock has never been good and he was rusty as shit. Foley was in terrible shape. Flair, despite having some great performances in 03+ in WWE just wasn't "on" here. Batista was still green as shit. Orton was the best guy in the match).


I'm not that fond of Jericho/Christian tbh. Definitely wouldn't have it any higher than 4*. Taker's entrance alone is ***** lol. Awesome, _awesome_ spectacle. Lesnar/Goldberg is GOAT. It's worth the watch for how fucked up it is, ha. Rock&Sock/Evolution is a fun match but nowhere near 4*. I have Eddie/Angle on my list for later though so I'll hold my judgment on that one. The triple threat is just a beautiful match though. It's a shame it's permanently tarnished for obvious reasons. 



Rock316AE said:


> But this is a lost art today, you don't have anybody that can put on a performance and really a legit show with his match. It's all going out there, doing the holds, doing the moves, finish segment and that's it, TVs and PPVs.


You want to see a newer guy put on a show/performance with his match go watch Damien Sandow vs. some jobber from last week's NXT. Awesome stuff from Sandow in that one. The crowd are eating him up and he's playing right back with them. I've liked Sandow for a while now but when I watched this match this morning I officially became a fan. He's great and a true prospect for the future if you ask me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> You want to see a newer guy put on a show/performance with his match go watch Damien Sandow vs. some jobber from last week's NXT. Awesome stuff from Sandow in that one. The crowd are eating him up and he's playing right back with them. I've liked Sandow for a while now but when I watched this match this morning I officially became a fan. He's great and a true prospect for the future if you ask me.


Well, it has Sandow in it, so video pretty please (if you can provide it).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Sandrone said:


> Well, it has Sandow in it, so video pretty please (if you can provide it).


I watched it on my TV lol. I'm sure if you just search for it on Youtube you will find it. I actually think Hulu are showing NXT now so you can probably find it there. It's last weeks episode and I can't remember the name of the guy he fought. He literally _was_ a jobber lol. Sandow was great in it though. Really great imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^That's the match I assume. Watching it now starting with his promo. Loving it so far. (Sandow promo starts about 3 minutes in).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> *Wrestlemania XX
> Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - ******
> 
> Beautiful match. The aftermath is truly heartbreaking though.


(Y)

Oh look, it's another 2004 PPV. How appropriate...BOOSH~!


*WrestleMania 20​*
1) *WWE United States Championship*:
Big Show(c) vs John Cena ~ **1/4


2) *World Tag Team Championship* - Fatal Four Way Match:
Rob Van Dam/Booker T(c) vs Dudley Boys vs Rene Dupree & Rob Conway vs Garrison Cade & Mark Jindrak ~ **1/2


3) Chris Jericho vs Christian ~ ****


4) *Handicap Match*:
Mick Foley & The Rock vs Ric Flair, Randy Orton, & Batista ~ ***3/4


5) *Playboy Evening Gown Match*:
Sable & Torrie Wilson vs Stacy Keibler & Jackie Gayda ~ DUD


6) *WWE Cruiserweight Championship* - *Cruiserweight Open*:
Chavo Guerrero Jr.(c) vs Rey Mysterio vs Yoshihiro Tajiri vs Jamie Noble vs Billy Kidman vs Ultimo Dragon vs Nunzio vs Shoichi Funaki vs Shannon Moore vs Akio ~ *


7) Brock Lesnar vs Bill Goldberg ~ DUD


8) *WWE Tag Team Championship* - *Fatal Four Way Match*:
Scott Taylor & Rikishi(c) vs World's Greatest Tag Team vs APA vs Basham Brothers ~ 1/2*


9) *WWE Women's Championship* - *Title vs Hair*:
Victoria(c) vs Molly Holly ~ DUD


10) *WWE Championship*:
Eddie Guerrero(c) vs Kurt Angle ~ ****


11) The Undertaker vs Kane ~ *1/2


12) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Triple Threat Match*:
Triple H(c) vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit ~ *****​

This event started off rather well. Then following the handicap match it took a MAJOR nose-dive until the WWE Championship.

~ No complaints with the opener. Show dominated the majority. Cena wows fans with not one, but two F-U's. Career made. Enjoyable opener.

~ Above average short tag team contest with a lot of bodies out there. RVD & Booker felt out of place in a mid card match at WrestleMania, imo. They won. Makes no difference when that comes into play I guess. Nothing special, but once again another entertaining bout.

~ Stellar match between Jericho/Christian. So many nicely done spots throughout. Always loved this. Watched it the most out of all the matches on this show.

~ Handicap ruled. That's what handicap matches need to be good. Use the elements there to dictate the action. Not the same 'ol "team that has the advantage dominates 99% of the match then hot tag to end" crap. That doesn't work in handicap matches most of the time. Simply because it's expected and droll. Foley/Orton continue their strong program, we got Rock to return and have interactions with FLAIR and Batista did the appropriate amount he should have being a monster.

~ Playboy...ugh. Sable's hot. Tazz & Cole make jokes at the commentary table. "_That wasn't my pencil"_

~ Cruiserweight open fell victim to asinine booking. Stick 10 cruiserweights, INCLUDING Rey Mysterio, and give them 1 minute each. Real smart. Would have been better letting this be like No Way Out 2006 and let all of them be in the ring together with the 10 1/2 minute time given. Shooting Star Press to the outside got a pop from the crowd. Crowd was starting to wind down by this point.

~ Brock vs Goldberg = SHIT. Killed the crowd after it was over. (they were awesome while crapping on the match tho) 'nuff said.

~ WWE Tag Titles...nothing happens. Not like Brock/Goldberg nothing happens, but yeah. Bashams made it to WrestleMania, lol oh lord. They're simply terrible.

~ Women's championship would have been better if it lasted 30 seconds. Not one person cared. They just wanted to see Molly get her head shaved. Could have saved all of us from a bad, boring 5 minutes and did the hair job in all that time.

~ Eddie made this work with Angle. Crowd wasn't very hot during this because of all the crap prior. I still really got into it. We all know the finish. Classic Eddie. I'll never stop missing that guy. Oh yeah, Angle was in this match too. Tazz likes him.

~ Undertaker vs Kane wasn't anything special match wise. Which was common for both on PPV that year. Undertaker's return is all I needed. So legit. Always will get goosebumps. I still remember being a 13 year old kid watching it live and jumping when I heard "OHHHH YESSS". PAUL BEARER~! :mark:

~ Main event is perfection. I mean, it really is. Every single thing that could have been done to make it come together so perfectly did. Not gonna complain about HHH lasting 2 minutes in the crossface. If anything that only added to the drama of the finish. Would he counter out? Would Shawn manage to break it up? Could Benoit finally win the World championship? Buried the hold..pfft. Get out of here. Now I don't like Triple H, but that seems like grasping for straws. Anyways, the ideal WrestleMania main event. It's pretty much my favorite only tied with Undertaker vs Michaels from WrestleMania 26.


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## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle Royal Rumble 2003. Excellant match. I loved every part of it, especially the reversals. The spot where Chris Benoit did his diving headbutt surprised me considering how far away Kurt Angle was from Benoit, lol. It was also nice to Kurt Angle winning clean by submission.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> ^That's the match I assume. Watching it now starting with his promo. Loving it so far. (Sandow promo starts about 3 minutes in).


Thanks for the link. Watching Sandow, whether it be cutting a promo or wrestling, is an absolute pleasure, I see an extremely bright future for him as long as he plays his cards right.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/HHH/HBK is the greatest WM main event along with Austin/Rock WM17, IMO.



Oliver-94 said:


> Just watched Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle Royal Rumble 2003. Excellant match. I loved every part of it, especially the reversals. The spot where Chris Benoit did his diving headbutt surprised me considering how far away Kurt Angle was from Benoit, lol. It was also nice to Kurt Angle winning clean by submission.


The best headbutt from Benoit is to Rhyno on a random Smackdown show in 2003. Rhyno was literally laid by the turnbuckle near the announce table and Benoit went three corners away and landed it perfectly.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really need to watch the Mania 20 triple threat again. It has been a good 5 years, at least.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hop to it, man.

Austin/Rock from WrestleMania 17 is great, but it's far from my favorite WrestleMania main event. Mostly in part to me not being crazy about those long Attitude Era style brawls. It's why I really don't care for the four way elimination from WrestleMania 16 or Austin/HHH from No Mercy 1999.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Definitely call Austin/Rock the best WM main event. I'm not even sure what #2 would be but whatever it is I'd have it a fairly big distance behind that.


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Undertaker/Michaels is the best Mania main event for me for reasons already stated.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 WM Main events for me:

(*****)
1) Austin vs. Rock WM17
(****3/4)
2) Undertaker vs. HBK WM26
(****1/2)
3) Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH WM20
(****1/4)
4) Undertaker vs. Edge WM24
5) Lesnar vs. Angle WM19 
(****)
6) Cena vs. HBK WM23
7) Hogan vs. Savage WM5
8) Hogan vs. Warrior WM6
9) Hart vs. HBK WM12
(***3/4)
10) Austin vs. HBK WM14


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Michaels/Taker and then Cena/Michaels for me as the two best Wrestlemania Main Events. Austin/Rock would probably be #3 even if I'm not crazy about it (feels more and more like Austin's performance carries it to the heights people perceive it). Lesnar/Angle isn't bad but never grabbed me, HHH/Batista is pretty mediocre, Edge/Taker just does nothing for me aside from the Charles Robinson sprint (though I blame my abhorrence for Edge as a worker for not liking it at all), HHH/Orton and HHH/Jericho shouldn't need explaining. Austin/HBK might a little underrated now I think about it, wouldn't call it close to great but it probably stacks up better in comparison compared to a ton of other Wrestlemania Main Events. Cena/HHH from Wrestlemania 22 is probably my third favourite from WM 21-28, with 26 and 23 being #1 and #2.

WM 20 triple threat would probably be #4 after Austin/Rock, I admire the story but as a stand alone match it hasn't really progressed with each rewatch, if anything its sinking. I probably put that down to the HHH/HBK middle section which whilst it served a dual story purpose, just really isn't going to make my like the match as much as I when I was younger. Pretty shitty drawn out 'epic' brawling between them two just takes me out of it. Benoit is pretty much flawless in his performance throughout and pretty much carries the bruntload of the story and workrate in the match, though the SCM as Benoit has the sharpshooter on HHH will always remain a pretty tremendous visual.

Hogan/Savage might round out my top 5 all things considered:

1. Undertaker/HBK
2. Cena/HBK
3. Austin/Rock
4. HHH/HBK/Devil's favourite Demon :side:
5. Hogan/Savage


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1. Rock/Austin 17
2. Cena/Michaels 23
3. Hogan/Warrior 6
4. HHH/Michaels/Benoit 20
5. Hogan/Savage 5

Probably. I haven't watched the Hogan matches in years. Watched some of the 3-way earlier this year but didn't finish it. 3 ways aren't really my thing (in wrestling :mark. Ah fuck it. I'll turn off the computer and watch the 3-way right now. Cena/Michaels I watched last about 2 1/2 years ago, and IDK if I'll prefer it to Hogan/Warrior next time. I'm just assuming I would. I liked Cena/HHH enough three years ago to put it there, but I don't remember much about it and have no idea how it'll hold up while I'm fairly certain everything on that list would. Only thing I'm 100% sure of is #1 would without a shadow of a doubt be Rock/Austin.


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Wait, what is your opinion on Michaels/Taker WM26?

Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Warrior have special places in my heart and are bonafide main events for a big show like WrestleMania. WrestleMania has its aura because of matches like those and I believe they both hold up today.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hogan/Warrior is a blindspot for me, all things considered though I wouldn't say its out of the question it could be close to the top 5, though I think my fondness for Savage over Warrior as a worker will always make me appreciate Hogan/Savage that little bit more.



Yeah1993 said:


> 3 ways aren't really my thing (in wrestling :mark


Curses, and there's me thinking my 'Benoit - The Devil's Favourite Demon' joke would be the highlight joke of this page :side:


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Michaels was once at ****1/2 for me. Then I rewatched it and didn't like it nearly as much as I once did. Still gets a **** for me and I do love it for what it was. Saddened that it seemed to go down in quality for me. Don't know why either. That STFU counter into the small package still RULES all. As a guy who rooted for Cena during that, it made me jump.

Cena vs HHH WrestleMania 22 sucks. Never liked it. If I'm gonna watch a match to be worked like that, I'll watch Cena/Rock from 28 instead.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HBK/Taker is probably third best for me. I need to rewatch that one, though. Wasn't too into it last time and I just like WM25 a lot more.

Also, am I the only one who doesn't like HBK/Cena at WM23? It feels like a lengthy squash match where HBK carries all the offense for 25 minutes then it reaches higher potentials in the last 4, 5 minutes but ends before it can get better. And unlike Cena/Khali, there's no David/Goliath story to it so that HBK destroying Cena all match long can be understandable. It's just Exhibit A for what Cena's matches are hated on for. ("He gets beat the entire match then wins with a couple of moves")


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> ^
> Wait, what is your opinion on Michaels/Taker WM26?
> 
> Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Warrior have special places in my heart and are bonafide main events for a big show like WrestleMania. WrestleMania has its aura because of matches like those and I believe they both hold up today.


I watched it once a month after it happened and didn't really dig it THAT much. I actually didn't think it was that much lower than something like Hogan/Savage so I could see a place for it in the top 5. I probably should have mentioned that in my post and I'll definitely watch it again sometime. NO. You know what? Tomorrow. I have the Mania 20 DVD in like I said I would and I will watch Michaels/Taker tomorrow. NO BS!


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Going off memory I really felt they captured the story of Cena being the young phenom on the cusp of super stardom, and having to ultimately prove himself against the guy who always brings his best for the big occasions wonderfully. Thought HBK controlling made sense to get across his experience as well as Cena having to overcome and prove himself working from the bottom up rather than controlling a majority of the match and not being able to get the win: the leg selling always seems to irk some but its never bothered me. Feels like a temporary strategy from Shawn to keep control rather than what he's pinning his hopes on, and Cena shaking it and progressively moving better over time works for me given the short length of time its targeted. Finishing stretch was pretty choice as well I thought.

Cena/HHH is one of those matches I recall liking a lot, but one I'm in no hurry to revisit. In many ways I'm expecting to like it less, given 2006 Cena isn't really close to what he would become by the years end and into 2007, and HHH sinks lower and lower as a worker everyday for me outside of a few matches and performances, so its more a case of not wanting to put myself through a 20 minute match I'm not truly expecting to enjoy.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'll definitely watch it again sometime. NO. You know what? Tomorrow. I have the Mania 20 DVD in like I said I would and I will watch Michaels/Taker tomorrow. NO BS!


:mark:


On Michaels/Cena, what I took away from witnessing the match live at Ford Field is that Michaels giving Cena a wrestling lesson or this was Cena's greatest test. I recall a comment made by JR on the Heartbreak & Triumph documentary that this match was "finishing school" for Cena and how he managed to endure a "perfect wrestling match" from Shawn Michaels was a great story. I don't have a problem with Cena's knee selling since Michaels didn't do that much damage to it imo and Cena's all about resiliency especially after the wars he had been through before arriving in the main event with The Showstopper. I so agree with the comment that the last 4-5 minutes are epic stuff especially Michaels' selling, the near-falls (the roll-up from the STF), and the STF finish was actually look good too like he was choking Michaels.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Caida*, seems like you're much more willing to overlook/accept/rationalize/ignore the things in Cena matches that drive most people nuts lol.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *Caida*, seems like you're much more willing to overlook/accept/rationalize/ignore the things in Cena matches that drive most people nuts lol.


I am a much bigger fan of Cena than most, but I'm not about to overlook when he's at his worst, e.g the I Quit match vs Miz which was just the Cena comeback done without the savvyness it usually has.

I think a poster by the name of *Walk-In* summed it up best. In US wrestling you'll always get the babyface comeback which focuses on sequences of moves to even the score after enduring a gruelling workover, this is the same whether its Hogan, Cena, Austin, Rock, Lawler, Sting, Orton, Punk, Mysterio, Eddie etc. The key principle is to sell brilliantly during your workoever, to really communicate sympathy and desperation to the crowd to get them invested and to earn your comeback, to me Cena really is exceptional at this. I'm not about to say his energy burst isn't irritable given the workover which preceeds it, but to me his selling and bumping and facial expressions to sell a match during the middle sort of give him...I don't want to say 'a pass', but more along the lines of it fits the story that Cena is against the wall and needs to string a comeback together or risk losing the match, since he can't take much more punishment.

Its the same reason I adore Jerry Lawler's comeback. He'd drop the strap and have a high energy/fastly paced comeback which to some people could be poor selling, but to me the timing of the comeback as well as the brillant selling during the workover create this 'now or never' emotion in Lawler matches that pull a crowd into his comeback, and therefore I always see his comebacks as 'last chance saloon' rather than 'oh its time to get my shit in and hit my moves'. It always feels like it has a purpose, like he has to be on offence now or he risks losing the match.

Its the same with Cena and Mysterio, although Rey does it far better to me through his speed and offence not being as played out as Cena's. Still, whilst Cena's comeback can often than not be irritable and feel like no-selling, more often than not I find his superb timing essentially creates the feeling he's earned this comeback, and therefore when its timed and executed well its far better than him blowing off his opponent's offence just to hit some moves: i.e a problem I have when Kurt Angle will often 'pop up' after a big move in order to hit a move of his own, his attempts at this never feel as well timed or earnt and consequently force me to see it in a far negative light than I do when Cena has his 'fiery comeback'.

But aye in Cena/Michaels I can't really fathom the 'questionable' selling being an issue, he sells it well enough during the workover and shakes it loose moments after and eventually just seems to gradually gain more feeling back into it as Michaels moves his focus away from the leg and onto more signature offence.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> GoCena/HHH is one of those matches I recall liking a lot, but one I'm in no hurry to revisit. In many ways I'm expecting to like it less, given 2006 Cena isn't really close to what he would become by the years end and into 2007, and HHH sinks lower and lower as a worker everday for me outside of a few matches and performances, so its more a case of not wanting to put myself through a 20 minute match I'm not truly expecting to enjoy.


Especially when _nothing_ happens in the match.

I really fail to see what people can enjoy about the match. A hot crowd? Plenty of matches with that. Much better ones too. So that can't be it. Didn't help that I never found a Cena/HHH match appealing. Granted they eventually proved me wrong with the Night of Champions 2008 rematch, but first time ever at WrestleMania didn't quite work. It was one of those stalling type matches for me. They spend idk, what the first 5, maybe even nearly 10, minutes trying to "gain the upper hand". JR puts over Triple H as the more "pure" of the two. That annoyed me. I'd consider Cena to be a better worker than Triple H. Even around that time. Then Triple H dominates. Yawn. Crowd loves it though. I'm thinking to myself 'will this ever pick up?' It doesn't. Some more generic finishers are hit. Whatever. Ref gets killed, sledgehammer is introduced, used, Cena kicks out, eventual STFU and boosh Cena owns those fans by beating Dur Game. I really can't recall any moment of it that stands out. Other than the awesome fact that Cena winning shut up all of those idiots who booed him in the first place. (idiots, yeah, I'm a big Cena guy)

It's certainly on my lower half of WrestleMania main events. Don't think I'd say it is the worst. I won't bury it that much. Ironman is 100x worse than Cena/HHH. Cena/HHH only went 22 minutes. So there is a tolerable cutoff point at least.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hailsabin said:


> Especially when _nothing_ happens in the match.
> 
> I really fail to see what people can enjoy about the match. A hot crowd? Plenty of matches with that. Much better ones too. So that can't be it. Didn't help that I never found a Cena/HHH match appealing. Granted they eventually proved me wrong with the Night of Champions 2008 rematch, but first time ever at WrestleMania didn't quite work. It was one of those stalling type matches for me. They spend idk, what the first 5, maybe even nearly 10, minutes trying to "gain the upper hand". JR puts over Triple H as the more "pure" of the two. That annoyed me. I'd consider Cena to be a better worker than Triple H. Even around that time. Then Triple H dominates. Yawn. Crowd loves it though. I'm thinking to myself 'will this ever pick up?' It doesn't. Some more generic finishers are hit. Whatever. Ref gets killed, sledgehammer is introduced, used, Cena kicks out, eventual STFU and boosh Cena owns those fans by beating Dur Game. I really can't recall any moment of it that stands out. Other than the awesome fact that Cena winning shut up all of those idiots who booed him in the first place. (idiots, yeah, I'm a big Cena guy)


Agreed on Cena/HHH. Boring main event match that has a hot crowd, and some good wrestling, but it felt like a Raw main event to me (a Raw main event with a hot crowd but still a Raw main event)... and hell, they had a much better match on Raw a few years later imo. 

Cena/HBK is an awesome match and worthy of the main event spot, even though I felt it was the weaker of the two heavyweight title matches by a fair margin. Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Warrior would be in my top 10 probably.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HEEEYY HEYYYYY! I did a Wrestlemania main event project once upon a time, so I'll just take those matches from my beautiful microsoft word file here and PRESTO ! 

*K1ngofK1ngs Wrestlemania Main Event Rankings*

1. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXVI) : *******
2. Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XX) : *******
3. The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania X-7) : ***** 3/4*
4. Edge vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV) : ***** 1/2*
5. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V) : ***** 1/4*
6. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII) : ***** 1/4*
7. Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX) : ***** 1/4*
8. Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI) : ***** 1/4*
9. John Cena vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII) : ******
10. Triple H vs The Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania XVI) : ******
11. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV) : **** 3/4*
12. The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XV) : **** 1/2*
13. The Rock vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : **** 1/2*
14. Chris Jericho vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XVIII) : **** 1/2*
15. Sgt Slaughter vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania VII) : **** 1/4*
16. Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XII) : **** 1/4*
17. Triple H vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXI) : *****
18. Randy Savage vs Ted Dibiase (Wrestlemania IV) : *****
19. Hulk Hogan/Mr. T vs Paul Orndorff/Roddy Piper (Wrestlemania I) : *** 1/2*
20. Bret Hart vs Yokozuna (Wrestlemania X) : *** 1/2*
21. Hulk Hogan vs King Kong Bundy (Wrestlemania II) : *** 1/2*
22. Triple H vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXV) : *** 1/2*
23. Bret Hart vs Yokozuna (Wrestlemania IX) : *** 1/4*
24. The Undertaker vs SID (Wrestlemania XIII) : ****
25. Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant (Wrestlemania III) : ****
26. Lawrence Taylor vs Bam Bam Bigelow (Wrestlemania XI) : ****
27. Hulk Hogan vs SID (Wrestlemania VIII) : ** 3/4*
28. The Miz vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVII) : ** 3/4*

The lesson of the day : Nothing screams "SHOWCASE OF THE IMMORTALS" better than a third of your main events being average/mediocre/bad. Wrestlemania isn't always what the E' hypes it up to be 

Secondly, and the most important lesson of all : Fuck you Miz. That is all. I'd say that at WM XXIX that you should be squashed by :hhh , but that would be a waste of the Holy Son-in-Law's time


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What the hell:

1) Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit ~ *****


2) The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels ~ ****3/4


3) The Undertaker vs Edge ~ ****1/4


4) John Cena vs Shawn Michaels ~ ****


5) Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior ~ ****


6) Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar ~ ****


7) Steve Austin vs The Rock ~ **** _(WM XVII)_


8) John Cena vs The Rock ~ ***3/4


9) Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin ~ ***3/4


10) Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan ~ ***1/2


11) Hulk Hogan vs Sgt. Slaughter ~ ***1/4


12) Steve Austin vs The Rock ~ ***1/4 _(WM XV)_


13) Bam Bam Bigelow vs Lawrence Taylor ~ ***


14) Chris Jericho vs Triple H ~ ***


15) Bret Hart vs Yokozuna ~ **3/4 _(WM IX)_


16) Randy Savage vs Ted Dibiase ~ **1/2


17) Bret Hart vs Yokozuna ~ **1/4 _(WM X)_


18) Triple H vs Batista ~ **


19) Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff ~ **


20) Triple H vs The Rock vs Mick Foley vs Big Show ~ **


21) John Cena vs Triple H ~ *1/2


22) The Undertaker vs Psycho Sid ~ *1/2


23) Triple H vs Randy Orton ~ *1/2


24) Hulk Hogan vs King Kong Bundy ~ *


25) John Cena vs Mike Mizanin ~ *


26) Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels ~ DUD


27) Hulk Hogan vs Sid Justice ~ DUD


28) Hulk Hogan vs Andre The Giant ~ DUD​

So yeah. Hogan/Andre should have been an easy guess. Memorable or not, it's BAD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HS, what's your top 10 greatest matches ever ? Just a little curious as I'm watching all of these voted top 100 matches. Going to throw out some STARZ! from what I've seen today :

Benoit vs Finlay (JD 06) : ***** 1/4*
Benoit vs Regal (VEL 05) : ***** 1/4*
Benoit vs Regal (NM 06) : ***** 1/2*
Guerrero vs Mysterio (SD 05) : ***** 1/2*

The Benoit vs Regal/Finlay matches are all wonderfully executed contests with great brawling and amazing technical prowess. I thought the most intense and well wrestled match of the 3 was the No Mercy match with Benoit/Regal, just amazing stuff. THOSE FUCKING HEADBUTTS. Guerrero-Mysterio however, trumps them all for sure. One of the best "character-driven" matches I've ever seen, as Eddie's slow transition to madness is truly a sight to behold. A top 10 performance EVER by a professional wrestler in the WWE from where I sit, the blossoming of Eddie's character and how it manifests itself into the match is just a thing of beauty, bravo. The best Rey-Eddie WWE match for sure.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena/HHH *1/2? Hart/Michaels DUD? C'mon, Cody. Shock value reviews at their finest.

I enjoyed Cena/HHH a ton (aside from the outcome). It was billed as Cena's first big test, and whether people like it or not, HHH has always been portrayed as a mastermind in the ring. Him making Cena look like fool at the outset - much to the adoration of the crowd - fit the mold perfectly. Then Cena proved he could hang with The Game and found his stride, ultimately becoming solidified as the man by making H tap out. I thought the simple story told itself. And pretty well.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> Michaels/Taker and then Cena/Michaels for me as the two best Wrestlemania Main Events.


This guy knows what's up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> HS, what's your top 10 greatest matches ever ? Just a little curious as I'm watching all of these voted top 100 matches. Going to throw out some STARZ! from what I've seen today :
> 
> Benoit vs Finlay (JD 06) : ***** 1/4*
> Benoit vs Regal (VEL 05) : ***** 1/4*
> ...


Wow, man honestly I'm not quite sure unless I really take the time to thumb through what I really love. Sorry for being vague here, but I could kick it over and get back to you. I'll say this, Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels Hell in a Cell makes it. I know that's easily inserted. Undertaker/Mankind HIAC probably will too since that's like my ultimate guilty pleasure match... as far as ranking it high goes. (match is totally legendary imo. that's the Taker/Foley mark in me coming out)

Of course I'm under the impression you mean WWE only with this. Because if you want to include other promotions then I know I'll have to look at all of the Ric Flair matches I worship from the 80's - early 90's. Along with some boss southern style tags a la Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90.

Glad you loved those bouts. Velocity is fuzzy, think I said that already, but I might be able to find it via Youtube. Hopefully. Rest I own and can fully say I agree. Hit the nail on the head with all 3. Benoit/Regal from No Mercy is the tops for me when I think of WWE 2006 PPV matches. The immediate BLOOD from the HEADBUTTS + CHOP TO THE FUXIN FACE = :mark: :mark:

What is there left to say that you didn't for Guerrero/Mysterio? So damn happy I own that via Rey's Biggest Little Man set. Has to be their match match ever behind Halloween Havoc '97. They could be dead even actually. Two very different type of matches from them, but so, so magical. Superb. The bruises on Rey's body in that match are completely absurd.



The Lady Killer said:


> Cena/HHH *1/2? Hart/Michaels DUD? C'mon, Cody. Shock value reviews at their finest.
> 
> I enjoyed Cena/HHH a ton (aside from the outcome). It was billed as Cena's first big test, and whether people like it or not, HHH has always been portrayed as a mastermind in the ring. Him making Cena look like fool at the outset - much to the adoration of the crowd - fit the mold perfectly. Then Cena proved he could hang with The Game and found his stride, ultimately becoming solidified as the man by making H tap out. I thought the simple story told itself. And pretty well.


I ranted on the Cena/HHH match a page back. It's boring (with a hot crowd, yeah, I know) Nothing happens. And jeez the Ironman..ugh. Loathe it. Has to be the worst worked 60 minute match I've ever seen. I can't even watch it anymore becauase it's so terrible. No shock value here. You can look at it like that all you want, it isn't the truth though. Those are two matches that I never found to be good, let alone "great". Cena/HHH at my best rating for it was only at **. It never did anything for me other than having Cena coming out on top. That's it.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

When looking at the history of wrestling, in terms of things like match quality, I think we're moving towards a direction that baseball is now, in terms of it's "Live Ball" era. Because, if we judged pitchers by ERA and wins, then all of the pitchers in the Live Ball Era (which ended in what, 30s or so) would just be substantially better. The game isn't the same. Look at football, last year there were all of a sudden like 3 guys who broke 5,000 yards passing, and breaking Marino's record. Sports evolve. And, sure enough, so does wrestling. If you get a group of 12 year olds, who watch the current product, I'd bet they'd be bored out of their minds watching Jake the Snake or Savage/Steamboat. The way that WWE constructs a match in the ring, and how they produce Monday Night Raw has become so rich in just sheer product value, with fancy sets and fireworks and high definition this and that. It's grown into a very contemporary, almost foreign concept to a lot of people. (Now, duh, I know that wrestling evolves like this throughout history all the time, and I could be overreacting, but it reminds me of when the Nintendo 64 followed up the Super Nintendo, and everybody was like WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS because the leap was incredible). 

It reminds me of at my old job, I'd talk to one of the janitors every now and then, and he had to have been around 50, give or take a bunch. Ambiguous stage. Anyways, he became aware that I was a fan of pro wrestling, and he came and talked about it with me, and would drop names like Lou Thesz, and he talked about how it was just a soap opera, "they're all actors now". Now perhaps we could suffice to say that wrestlers, even in the 50s, were actors. But these guys have lines and do skits and don't even have real matches sometimes. It's just totally not the same, not at all, to him. So I find it really difficult to compare a lot of matches from era to era (The Barry Bonds versus Babe Ruth argument, sans roids if you want) because they're so different. Apples and Oranges. Brock Lesnar in a 1927 ring would be an alien. It would be the most extraordinary thing they'd seen. 

I guess this is my really roundabout way of saying that I have trouble comparing WrestlemMania main events circa, 2009, versus WrestleMania main events circa, 1985. The product is better now, also because of the in-ring athleticism as well as medical science supporting these guys, things that are clear advantages of our era. No? 

That being said, top Mania main events consist of
1. Benoit-HBK-HHH Mania 20

BAM!


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Lesnar DVD is out early in the UK. I'm selling my copy on ebay if anyone is interested http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290800904792


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How come you are selling your copy? I thought you liked to own a copy of everything? 

Top 5 WM Main Events:

1. Undertaker Vs HBK WM 26 - *****
2. HHH Vs HBK Vs Benoit WM XX - ****3/4
3. Undertaker Vs Edge WM 24 - ****1/2
4. Austin Vs Rock WM 17 - ****1/2
5. Uhhhh... no idea tbh. About 3 candidates that I can't decide between.

Need to rewatch HHH/Cena. Been putting it off for a while now. Skipped past it when I watched WM for my Raw 06 project because I just couldn't be arsed. Its like I know I won't enjoy it or something lol.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I already had it pre-ordered from Amazon in the US and it seems it might be too late to cancel it :$


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If you had it pre-ordered from Amazon... then why did you buy it somewhere else?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Cos it was going to save me waiting two weeks to get it but I should of checked I could cancel the other one first.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KidCharlamagne said:


> I guess this is my really roundabout way of saying that I have trouble comparing WrestlemMania main events circa, 2009, versus WrestleMania main events circa, 1985. The product is better now, also because of the in-ring athleticism as well as medical science supporting these guys, things that are clear advantages of our era. No?
> 
> That being said, top Mania main events consist of
> 1. Benoit-HBK-HHH Mania 20
> ...


Some flaws to that. First being I wouldn't say this era has better wrestling every single time over any past decades. Are you aware of how much awesome stuff occured in the 80's & early 90's? Second, anyone who is comparing a match from the 80's in a list with matches from 2000's knows about the x-factors that make matches strong in those respective times. Nobody, I like to think nobody, will watch a match from WrestleMania 2 in 1986 for example and try to compare it to a match from WrestleMania 22 in 2006 and think the modern one is better simply because the style worked in 2006 is what said person is used to. That's bogus.

Another flaw to what you stated is when a match from the 80's or 90's blows away a match of similar means from the last 10 years. And trust me there are plenty that do. So what then? It's a fluke that the older match happened to be better? I don't think so. The wrestling biz does evolve. You aren't wrong there. We all know that. But, it's not illogical to compare matches from various decades such as the WrestleMania main events list does. Especially when an older match could trump a modern match a la Hogan/Warrior WrestleMania 6 over Triple H/Orton WrestleMania 25.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cena/HHH *1/2? Hart/Michaels DUD? C'mon, Cody. Shock value reviews at their finest.
> 
> I enjoyed Cena/HHH a ton (aside from the outcome). It was billed as Cena's first big test, and whether people like it or not, HHH has always been portrayed as a mastermind in the ring. Him making Cena look like fool at the outset - much to the adoration of the crowd - fit the mold perfectly. Then Cena proved he could hang with The Game and found his stride, ultimately becoming solidified as the man by making H tap out. I thought the simple story told itself. And pretty well.


Cena/Trips is great. The story is simple but they work it extremely well. I don't see how it can be said that nothing happens in the match. Plenty happened. They worked from this being Cena's first test on the big stage against the top dog, HHH schooling Cena, Cena's shock, Cena overcoming that shock, Cena proving he could hang but hitting his best move and still being unable to get the job done with the FU. Then he goes to the top rope and King mentions how he's being forced to go outside the norm because this isn't just any match, it's a Mania main event against Triple H dammit! I like how they recalled this back in the NOC match where Cena tries to go for the 5 knuckle shuffle 3 times and each attempt he's taking more and more time, giving HHH a chance to recover and he does. King asks if Cena's forgetting who he's in the ring with etc. Hunter hitting the spinebuster as a reversal to the 5 knuckle shuffle was the first time anybody had reversed it at that time imo. Then the utter shock of HHH tapping out, the fans reactions are priceless lol. All that and the actual atmosphere, plus the story being told make it a great match and severely underrated, especially if people are giving it *1/2....

When I get the money, I'll buy the Lesnar BluRay. Maybe for Xmas lol.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

So has there been any news regarding now UK folks will get future WWE DVDs once SIlverVision stops distributing? I'm interested in the RAW 1000 but have no idea how to get it. I don't want to have to buy a multi region Blu Ray player.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, Cena vs Triple H sucks. 

:hb


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Nuffin hpnd. Minus 10 stars durr 8*D


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day is my favourite and what I consider to be the best of the Benoit/Finlay/Regal series from 06. Benoit/Regal No Mercy 2006 and Benoit/Finlay 5/5 Smackdown are probably dead even, but the hardway blood from the headbutts as well as the chops to the fucking cut from Benoit probably have me itching to rank Benoit/Regal just that little bit higher.

Benoit/Regal Velocity 2005 and No Mercy 2006 are practically the same match minus a couple of transitions, in that respect I've seen a few people rank the No Mercy match lower given they saw Velocity first. I'd probably still call No Mercy that little bit better, but its not like there's a massive difference in quality.

Eddie/Rey is the best of the lot though as mentioned. Wonderful chemistry, Eddie's character performance is at its peak and he adds so many unique touches whilst selling the match visually through his rapidly alterating emotions, whilst Rey sells as well as Rey may have ever sold. Its pretty much the match that shifts Guerrero's character past the point of redemption and transfixes him into an utter psychopath, and his performance at the Great American Bash a few weeks later isn't far off from his performance here: Joey Ryan wishes he could be as sleazy as Eddie was that night.

Now if you were to ask me which is better, Mysterio/Orton 4/7 or Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day then I'd be really stumped. Benoit/Finlay is far more akin to the style I prefer and has so many wonderful things going for it, but there's something about Mysterio/Orton that makes me want to rank it higher. Maybe its because it feels like a legit classic 'title match' not bogged down by interference and over-booking, and instead feels like a primetime wrestling contest for arguably the biggest prize in the game..I'm not sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Had to rewatch it since the Game marks are upset at my snowflake rating. That's right Greg & Starbuck, I mean you damn cats.


*WrestleMania 22*:
John Cena vs Triple H ~ **​

Ok. Bell rings and here we go. JR does his background check on the guys. Cena's is legit. H's is kayfabe. Funny. Crowd is going ape. I'll always enjoy the heat. Makes it that much better when Cena wins. H begins with the whole "schooling" stuff. This annoys me. Cena _can_ wrestle. All because at this time Triple H's ego had him think he knew Cena's style already. He openly said that he thought Cena fuckin sucked around this time. Moron. So instead the match has to be worked like this to start. No other Cena matches have been up to this point. But, it's Triple H so things have to suit him of course. As I rant on the bastard he gets a chant from the fans. Funny how he goes face and eventually he'll get a "na na na" chant come Backlash 2009. Oh those fickle fans. Cena throws punches to finally get some form of an advatage. Strings together a couple of moves. King claims "Cena isn't the best wrestler but he can fight." JR gets mad at that and claims Cena can wrestle but he's only unorthodox. There you go, buddy. You tell em'. Some more clubberin happens. Cena sure changed the momentum of this quick. Then H uses a thumb to the eye to regain the advantage. Only for song long until he gets back dropped onto the steel ramp. More punches by Cena. Dammit John-boy do something else here. I'm putting you over. High knee counter by H. JR comments on the atmosphere and how great it is. Sure is. Match is beyond basic though. Which isn't always bad. In fact it can be awesome. Isn't doing much for me here however. Throw into the steps and another lag in the momentum occurs. Waiting for this match to remain constant with the flow. Triple H starts to put something together. Suplex, knee, massive slobberknocker of a clothesline. Neckbreaker. H presses the advantage for about the 4th nearfall. Ok, I get the story. It simply isn't doing anything for me. I might say that about 3 more times before I finish this. I count 2 so far. Redundant...oh well. Neck work is done on Cena. Don't think this goes anywhere other than to kill some time for Cena to attempt a comeback. Sleeperhold. JR puts over Triple H as some master mat technition. Ha. Oh Jim. That's one thing you say that I'll never understand. Cena kills H with a clothesline of us own. Punches and shit exchange. Powerslam. _Jesus christ this match is like from the most generic playbook of a power guy from the 80's. _I think that's why I don't care for it. I'll put over these fans again. Regardless of who they're rooting for it is one heck of an atmosphere. That's what is making this match worth something. Not nearly the match on it's own. Cena locks in the STFU for the first time. H worms his way to the ropes after a decent bit in the hold. Cena attempts an FU. Ref gets destroyed in the corner as well as low blowed. Oh boy, that's what this needs A REF BUMP. D-X crotch chop. Fans explode. Lolz it's amazing to me how this crowd is reacting to this match doing completely nothing. H gets his trusty sledgehammer, nails Cena with it, and only gets a 2. omg? JR puts over Cena's will to leave Mania with the gold. FU is hit..1...2...KICK OUT~! That was the obvious defining moment right there. Cena is flabbergasted that his finisher didn't take out dur game. Cena goes up top, that's unusual for this time. Goes for a crossbody and totally misses. Game attemps a pedigree, counter back into the STFU. Fans start to panic as this is the second time and could really be the end. H starts to fade. Ref checks his arms, he survives the third drop. H reaches for the rope....only to eventually tap out. Sheesh that flew on by.

Yep, not much in that match. Crowd was a lot more entertaining than I remember. That alone helped me find a bit more enjoyment in this. I still think that match is fairly weak. Stick that match in front of a mediocre or solid crowd and it isn't enough for me to care. Can't say the story was really that in depth either. Their Night of Champions 2008 match demolishes this and then some. That's where these guys really hit their mark.


I bumped it up to **. It's now considered "average" by the rating term. That's only because of how much the crowd made it feel like something special when it really wasn't. Glad something decided to make me re-up the match back to **. Was a bit annoyed that I put this in the same area as HHH/Orton WM 25. That match is obviously inferior regardless of how much I put down Cena/HHH. It fuckin sucks. Now I'll put Cena/HHH over HHH/Batista as well. HHH/Batista is another one I never liked. Plus, the better snowflake on this helps Cena out on my dossier of him. Fuck Triple H though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Heard a lot of Orton/Rey April 7th 06 talk recently. Am I the only one who thinks their NWO match is superior? ***3/4 for the SD match, ****1/4 for the NWO match. Not THAT much of a difference, but I clearly think one is better than the other. For those who don't agree, does the Eddie stuff slightly hinder your opinion on the NWO match? Normally things like that imo shouldn't get in the way of a match, but in this instance I can definitely accept people not enjoying the match as much as perhaps they should due to the Eddiesplotation stuff. For me I think it adds to the whole story of the match and even going into WM. Just a shame the WM match was as bad as it was.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> Nah, Cena vs Triple H sucks.
> 
> :hb


FINALLY, you and TripleG are the only other people I know who don't like that match. Praise the lawd.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Heard a lot of Orton/Rey April 7th 06 talk recently. Am I the only one who thinks their NWO match is superior? ***3/4 for the SD match, ****1/4 for the NWO match. Not THAT much of a difference, but I clearly think one is better than the other. For those who don't agree, does the Eddie stuff slightly hinder your opinion on the NWO match? Normally things like that imo shouldn't get in the way of a match, but in this instance I can definitely accept people not enjoying the match as much as perhaps they should due to the Eddiesplotation stuff. For me I think it adds to the whole story of the match and even going into WM. Just a shame the WM match was as bad as it was.


I can do without the Eddie stuff, especially when it just got overdone to almost everything Rey did/said. But NWO is a damn great match in its own right with/without the Eddie storyline. I've just always found Orton far better in the Smackdown title match, especially the way he utilises the headlocks to ground and contain Rey, and find Mysterio to be as good/if not better than he was at NWO. They've clearly got great chemistry, but something about the April 7th match stands out to me as convincingly their best match, like everything just clicked from the beginning, to Orton's transition, to teasing Rey's comeback to the finishing stretch. Think it comes across as just a more straight orientated wrestling match with Rey out to beat Orton as he knows that will hurt Orton more instead of trying to maim him, and Orton is at his sleazy and cocky best but is still determined to win the championship he feels Mysterio is holding for him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can certainly accept that reasoning. I think I probably like NWO more because of how much of a prick Orton is in it. Match is more character driven than the SD match which might be the better "wrestling" match. 

Wrestling needs more PICKS. And DICKS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really enjoyed this match tbh, can't remember seeing back in the day, great at the end with Lesnar facing off to Rocky as he's in the crossface, oh and Hogan lamping Brock with the chair........think Brock gets his revenge on that one!!!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I can certainly accept that reasoning. I think I probably like NWO more because of how much of a prick Orton is in it. Match is more character driven than the SD match which might be the better "wrestling" match.
> 
> Wrestling needs more PICKS. And DICKS.


I do love the finish of NWO and Rey's dejection afterwards. I'd probably agree the NWO match is more character/angle driven especially with Rey's approach to the match, its probably the Great American Bash Eddie/Rey whereas the Smackdown match feels more akin to the 6/23 SD encounter.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:yes It got bumped up to ****. YEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! My life is complete. 

I think your problem lies in the fact that the crowd were shitting on Cena and treating Trips like a GAWD tbh. Don't know why though. It came back to bite them at the end when he tapped which makes the whole thing that much better if you ask me.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Seeing the top Wrestlemania main event list I thought I'd go back and finish
*WRESTLEMANIA 2000 (XVI)*

*The Godfather and D'Lo Brown vs Big Bossman and Bull Buchanan *1/4*
Nice little opener with nothing really standing out. Felt more like a Raw match.
*15 man hardcore battle royale for the Hardcore Championship *1/2*
Most of the match was generally just shots to the head with everything and the kitchen sink. It picked up towards the end but other than that, that's it.
*T&A vs Head Cheese **
See first match
*Triangle Ladder Match for the Tag Team Championship
Dudley Boyz(c) vs Hardy Boyz vs Edge and Christian *****
Definitely the MOTN. Being overshadowed by TLC II I think this match is overlooked. It's filled with great spots and moments and correct me if I'm wrong, it inspired the TLC match. Nothing short of what you would expect from these teams and the finish was well put together.
*Terri Runnels vs The Kat DUD*
Why was this here?
*The Radicalz vs Too Cool & Chyna ***
Fun match, mostly a crowd worker. Both sides actually did well with each other. The ending with Eddie and Chyna was pretty funny.
*Triple threat match for the Intercontinental and European Champion:
Kurt Angle(c) vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit ****
I watched this match again so I could give it a proper rating but I still stand by three stars. It was a good match no doubt.Best technical match on the card, might have fared better if it was a one on one match. Great showing by Jericho and Benoit, Angle I don't think was at his best that time. I'm not saying he weighed down the match but I would have preferred to see him one on one with either Benoit or Jericho.
*Rikishi & Kane vs Road Dogg and X-Pac *1/2*
As fun as this match was. It was just setting up for Kane's third beat down of Pete Rose (and a stinkface). The whole aftermath was a fun cool down for the main event.
*Fatal four way for the WWF Championship:
Triple H (c) vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley ****
O.k here we go. First off you take away Big Show and it would basically be the same match. I thought Foley did really well here (though I wouldn't send him off like that). I think the original plan was to have HHH/Rock and they threw in the other two at the last second. After Foley got eliminated it really felt like a Triple H match, very slow and methodical. It was still keeping my attention. The whole side brawl between Vince and Shane didn't give a pause to the action. The finish I've seen plenty of times and the Rock, Rock Bottoming everyone to send the crowd home happy was o.k.
*Overall ** out of ******
This whole ppv felt like a really good B ppv and not like Wrestlemania. That being said it was fun and entertaining but the matches themselves apart from a few could be put on another ppv. Calling it one of the worst Wrestlemanias may seem rash, but comparatively it is. Mostly to the other AE Wrestlemanias (14,15, and 17)​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Has there ever been a match that you have watched that you simply can't enjoy due to outside circumstances such as a surrounding storyline, personal reasons, etc ? For me it would have to be the Guerrero-Mysterio ladder match from Summerslam 2005. What an utterly retarded concept for a match, I mean the Great American Bash match is one of the most underrated matches I've ever seen (Alot of people put the Wrestlemania match over it, what the fuck) , and in this we get the same sleazy Eddie... But in the Great American Bash match we didn't get interference from a bunch of non wrestlers! It's just...I refuse to watch that match because even the concept of a "ladder match for the custody of Dominick" drives me insane. Michael Cole and Tazz are fucking TERRIBLE on commentary for the match as well.

Which reminds me, that particular duo actually do a great job of calling the 6/23 match between Eddie and Rey as it's more subtle and less OVER THE TOP OMG EDDIE IZ EVEEEEELLLLLLLL SYMPATHIZE WIT WEYYYYYY. Commentary doesn't make me change a rating (except RR 92  ) but DAMN.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Has there ever been a match that you have watched that you simply can't enjoy due to outside circumstances such as a surrounding storyline, personal reasons, etc ? For me it would have to be the Guerrero-Mysterio ladder match from Summerslam 2005. What an utterly retarded concept for a match, I mean the Great American Bash match is one of the most underrated matches I've ever seen (Alot of people put the Wrestlemania match over it, what the fuck) , and in this we get the same sleazy Eddie... But in the Great American Bash match we didn't get interference from a bunch of non wrestlers! It's just...I refuse to watch that match because even the concept of a "ladder match for the custody of Dominick" drives me insane. Michael Cole and Tazz are fucking TERRIBLE on commentary for the match as well.
> 
> Which reminds me, that particular duo actually do a great job of calling the 6/23 match between Eddie and Rey as it's more subtle and less OVER THE TOP OMG EDDIE IZ EVEEEEELLLLLLLL SYMPATHIZE WIT WEYYYYYY. Commentary doesn't make me change a rating (except RR 92  ) but DAMN.


Bulldog-HBK (ONO 1997) - I watched it not that long ago and forgot how pissed off it makes me feel, i wanted to go back in time and say to Davey "Just kick the fucking shit outta him FFS" :gun:


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Individual Matches:

Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit (Owen Hart tribute match) (WCW 1999)- ****1/4
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio Jr. (No Mercy 2002)- *****
Jeff Hardy, Kendrick & London vs. Mr. Kennedy, Cade & Murdoch (No Mercy 2007)- **3/4
Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Primetime/Kid Romeo (WCW Greed 2001)- ***1/4
La Parka & Psicosis I vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. & Juventud Guerrera (WCW 1997)- ***1/2
The Eliminators vs. Rob Van Dam & Sabu (ECW Crossing The Line Again 1997)- ****1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Benoit/Jericho vs Batista/HHH tag match on Raw 6/12/2004. A pretty good tag match while it lasts but wow, HHH is one stiff asshole in this one! He ends the match in DQ after hitting Benoit with a chair but he's so reckless! Benoit takes a BRUTAL chair shot to the back of the head and is knocked unconscious (and starts bleeding), then he hits the referee Jack Doan in the top of the head with force and although Batista gets the least of the pain, Jericho almost breaks his arm by protecting the chair shot he takes. Even though I believe Benoit is innocent, it's hard to watch that chair shot he takes (he took another to the back of his head in the Ironman match with Hunter).

And I'm a bit late on this one, but I can't believe anyone would rate HHH/Cena at WM22 only *1/2. I can understand not liking it, but one and a half asterisks is just too low! I need to give it another watch but last time, I had it at ****.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really don't like Trips/Cena from WM when compared to NOC/Raw '09 but I still think it's solid.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Now if you were to ask me which is better, Mysterio/Orton 4/7 or Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day then I'd be really stumped. Benoit/Finlay is far more akin to the style I prefer and has so many wonderful things going for it, but there's something about Mysterio/Orton that makes me want to rank it higher. Maybe its because it feels like a legit classic 'title match' not bogged down by interference and over-booking, and instead feels like a primetime wrestling contest for arguably the biggest prize in the game..I'm not sure.


I'm an enormous fan of Rey/Orton and think it's quite easily the best WWE WHC match and Randy Orton match and non-Eddie WWE Rey match but it doesn't touch Benoit/Finlay. 

I have Michaels/Taker downloading. I'M GONNA DO IT. Tempted to watch Cena/HHH again now too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Coolquip said:


> FINALLY, you and TripleG are the only other people I know who don't like that match. Praise the lawd.


It was bound to happen, I guess.



Starbuck said:


> :yes It got bumped up to ****. YEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! My life is complete.
> 
> I think your problem lies in the fact that the crowd were shitting on Cena and treating Trips like a GAWD tbh. Don't know why though. It came back to bite them at the end when he tapped which makes the whole thing that much better if you ask me.


Not really. It used to. I stated several times that I actually liked the crowd reaction more than I ever have upon watching last night. You like the match. I don't. That's seriously all that there is to be said.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I got about £18 to play bout with on Silvervision. Anyone recommend some combinations of DVDs to get?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm not really a fan of Cena/HHH from WrestleMania 22, but I might need to give it a re-watch as I haven't watched in a while. The match didn't stand out to me and it's not something I fondly remember when I think of WrestleMania 22, unlike the Edge/Foley and HBK/McMahon matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really don't understand the hate for the finish of WM22. Can somebody explain how it could have been better?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Not really. It used to. I stated several times that I actually liked the crowd reaction more than I ever have upon watching last night. You like the match. I don't. That's seriously all that there is to be said.


So much for light hearted conversation. Like it, don't like it, it's no skin off my nose.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not worth discussing anymore. Much rather do so on a match I actually give a damn about. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho from WrestleMania 28 works. That's some prime, phenomenal storytelling right there. ****1/2.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

****1/2 for me as well.  Match tells a damn good story.

Random ratings for me.

Trips/Hardy NM '08 - ****1/2
Angle/HBK WM 21 - ****
Drew McIntyre/Morrison TLC '09 - ***1/4
Benjamin/HBK Raw '05 - ****1/4
Finlay/Benoit JD '06 - ****3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's like FUCK it is too damn good. They killed it at WrestleMania. Dream scenario fulfilled.

Hot damn, nearly the full 5 for Benoit/Finlay. Nice. It's so damn awesome that I can't wonder why you think it's nearly perfect. Props on Hardy/H. Superb bout. A bit higher than where I have it rated, but that's irrelevant. That entire PPV is legit. Love it. Bought it on PPV and the day it was released on DVD.

Since it was discussed a few pages back I'll bring it up again: you seen Benoit/Regal from No Mercy 2006? MANLY


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have bad memories of Jericho/Punk tbh, mainly because I was just too exhausted from the HIAC to pay it any attention while it was happening. Watching it on TV/DVD was WAY better than live in the stadium but it still doesn't do much for me. Not a horrible match by any means but not a great one either. Probably because it has been tainted in my memory lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> It's like FUCK it is too damn good. They killed it at WrestleMania. Dream scenario fulfilled.
> 
> Hot damn, nearly the full 5 for Benoit/Finlay. Nice. It's so damn awesome that I can't wonder why you think it's nearly perfect. Props on Hardy/H. Superb bout. A bit higher than where I have it rated, but that's irrelevant. That entire PPV is legit. Love it. Bought it on PPV and the day it was released on DVD.
> 
> Since it was discussed a few pages back I'll bring it up again: you seen Benoit/Regal from No Mercy 2006? MANLY


Agreed. (Y)

Seriously, NM '08 might be my favorite non-big 4 PPV after Backlash '07. Love it. I'd give Jericho/HBK ****1/2 too. Show/Taker and Hardy/Henry owned too.

HELL YEAH. I remember that match not even being announced for the show either. So good.

What do you think of Orton/Rhodes street fight from last year on SD? I rewatched it again and I've got it at **** now. Awesome match, imo. Would say it's Cody's best match unless I'm forgetting something.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I really don't understand the hate for the finish of WM22. Can somebody explain how it could have been better?


Triple H winning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I have bad memories of Jericho/Punk tbh, mainly because I was just too exhausted from the HIAC to pay it any attention while it was happening. Watching it on TV/DVD was WAY better than live in the stadium but it still doesn't do much for me. Not a horrible match by any means but not a great one either. Probably because it has been tainted in my memory lol.


Really? A bit surprised by that. Story didn't leap out at you at all?



Brye said:


> Agreed. (Y)
> 
> Seriously, NM '08 might be my favorite non-big 4 PPV after Backlash '07. Love it. I'd give Jericho/HBK ****1/2 too. Show/Taker and Hardy/Henry owned too.
> 
> ...


I'd put it over Backlash '07 imo. Have the Ladder match at the full 5. Hit it out of the park with that feud. Taker/Show was soooo awesome, haha. I was expecting to like it and it still blew me away.

:mark: Talk about best unannounced match ever.

I loved it. Have it put under the **** umbrella too. Smackdown 2011 MOTY if you ask me. Best part was how they incorporated the loss for Rhodes to be a good thing. Losing the mask and all that jazz. He needed that since I thought he should have won at Vengeance. At least they played it off to where he wasn't effected by Orton winning the feud. Yeah, I'd say it was Rhodes' best singles match to date. Nothing else stands out as being that strong ever since he moved to Smackdown in 2010.


lmao @ your answer, Greg.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Really? A bit surprised by that. Story didn't leap out at you at all?


I honestly do think it's because of the live experience I have of it in the stadium, as silly as it sounds. The story is sound and the last 5 minutes are great , really great, but the rest of it was just such a blur because I literally was still _that_ exhausted. Everybody was. I've only watched it once on TV since then and enjoyed it a lot more than I did live in person so maybe I ought to watch it again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/Regal at NM 06 is a pretty good match but I personally prefer the Velocity 05 one. Something about it is just preferable and it also seems they are a lot more 'loose' with their moves. For instance, Benoit does a Dragon Suplex which you never saw him do in Raw/Smackdown or any PPV matches of his I can remember post-neck injury. (I think he used it at SummerSlam 2000 against Jericho)

I had Finlay/Benoit JD 06 rated at **** but I might have to rewatch it because it's probably worth more. Velocity 05 is ****1/4.



The Lady Killer said:


> Triple H winning.


Lol, why? HHH already got two WM moments at WM2000 and WM18 when he closed the PPV victorious. Cena needed that to establish himself as "the man". Unless you (as in everyone and not you specifically) have something against Cena, I don't think there should be any problem with the finish.

Also, did the smarks really want HHH to become champion again at that point? Hadn't he already hogged the spotlight enough through 2002-2005?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would probably be my favorite match ever if that decision had occurred tbh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Really? A bit surprised by that. Story didn't leap out at you at all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You seen the Taker/Show match from CS the next month? I think I liked it even a bit more than that one.

And it's certainly up there. Just remembered that Mysterio/Kane being pretty solid too and DAT CHAIR SHOT.

Completely agree. I really wish Cody would have won that Vengeance match but as a whole I think that feud still really helped him. Rhodes Scholars has been really entertaining too. I'd really like to see Cody make his way into the main event scene at some point in his career.

Got $30 in amazon credit. Gonna get some used stuff and I'm thinking RR '10, Morrison's DVD and potentially Summerslam '11 or NOC '08. Those are all pretty cheap too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think part of Punk/Jericho owning so much for me was that Punk was in a WWE title match at WM, a place I honestly didn't think he'd ever get to. And for it to be one of my favorites of all time against him and a really good story made it even better. I can see the crowd being tired though. I was a little tired and I was watching from home. :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, why? HHH already got two WM moments at WM2000 and WM18 when he closed the PPV victorious. Cena needed that to establish himself as "the man". Unless you (as in everyone and not you specifically) have something against Cena, I don't think there should be any problem with the finish.
> 
> Also, did the smarks really want HHH to become champion again at that point? Hadn't he already hogged the spotlight enough through 2002-2005?


Personal preference. I completely understand and support the justification of Cena winning, I just would've preferred H winning in that atmosphere for selfish reasons.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Jericho from WM is :mark:. Seriously tremendous match. Loved how they threw the "Punk gets DQ'd he loses the title" stuff in right before the match. Gives them something new to work with, with Jericho trying to get Punk so pissed off he goes crazy and gets DQ'd. When Jericho realises that won't work, he does his best to out-wrestle Punk and prove HE is the best in the world. ****1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It just kills me that smarks were SO against Cena that they were literally kissing the feet of _Triple H_ and cheering him to beat Cena. Says a lot about how some folks felt for John Cena considering the guy they decided to cheer over him isn't exactly their favorite guy and never has been either lol. The entire scenario is just funny and the reactions at the end when Cena actually wins are just priceless. I'll never forget the shot they get of that guy with his hands on his head and a complete what the fuck just happened look on his face. :lmao Brilliant. I would have loved for Hunter to win but at the same time I loved Cena winning too. As a huge mark for both guys either outcome makes me happy. I do think that had HHH won, he would have come out the next night on Raw and taken a sledgehammer to that damn title though. Now that is definitely something I would have liked to have seen lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed, and Choke2Death saying "hadn't HHH hogged the spotlight enough at that point" is ironic considering Cena hasn't left the spotlight since that match...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HHH smashing the spinner belt with the sledgehammer...FUCK that would have owned.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Next night on Raw, Trips walks out with the spinner belt hanging from his hand in disgust, gets into the ring, drops it on the mat, grabs his trusty friend and destroys that thing to thunderous applause lol. It surely would have owned, ha. But they made the right call. That match legitimized Cena as THE guy and was the passing of the torch into his hands. It needed to happen the way it did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I honestly do think it's because of the live experience I have of it in the stadium, as silly as it sounds. The story is sound and the last 5 minutes are great , really great, but the rest of it was just such a blur because I literally was still _that_ exhausted. Everybody was. I've only watched it once on TV since then and enjoyed it a lot more than I did live in person so maybe I ought to watch it again.


No, I completely buy that reasoning. Being there live does take a lot out of a fan. 100% fact. I'll throw in that you should rewatch it. Of course, I'm very biased since I think the world of the match, haha. I'm wanting to put it in right now after I finish up some matches I got going atm.



Brye said:


> You seen the Taker/Show match from CS the next month? I think I liked it even a bit more than that one.
> 
> And it's certainly up there. Just remembered that Mysterio/Kane being pretty solid too and DAT CHAIR SHOT.
> 
> ...


Seen the Last Man Standing. Only once and that was back in 2008. So I really can't comment much on it other than I know I did like it. Only match in that feud I disliked was the shoddy Casket match from Survivor Series. Don't know what happened there.

Yep, I liked Kane/Mysterio. ***. He KILLED Rey :lmao

The fan inside of me really wanted Rhodes to get a good rub from it. In all honesty he did. Might have only won one match out of the 4 they had, but in the long run it worked out. Was a way for him to transition into a new phase of his career. He was still rolling with the IC Championship at the time so he wasn't in a hurry to be going over Orton in a massive capacity yet. YES. Thank the booking for Rhodes Scholars. Not only does it give Sandow more time, exposure, and a chance to keep establishing himself, but it revives Rhodes. Idk what happened after his program with Christian. He was too busy jobbing to Sin Cara every week? Really? Not gonna go crazy and claim "they almost killed him" but it sure as hell was a step back from how great of a 2011 he had.

Hey Night of Champions 2008. CENA VS TRIPLE H. (haha) I remember really liking the Edge/Batista match from that show too. On my last watch I had it at **** believe it or not. Buy it. Let me know how it holds up... I wished I had it now. I could always d/l it or wise up and browse Amazon myself. (went on a TNA fix and that took all my cash)



KingCal said:


> Punk/Jericho from WM is :mark:. Seriously tremendous match. Loved how they threw the "Punk gets DQ'd he loses the title" stuff in right before the match. Gives them something new to work with, with Jericho trying to get Punk so pissed off he goes crazy and gets DQ'd. When Jericho realises that won't work, he does his best to out-wrestle Punk and prove HE is the best in the world. ****1/2


(Y)

Absolutely. It's wonderful. My favorite CM Punk match during his WWE Championship reign. And he's had a good number that I've enjoyed too.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

am i a bad person for loving the HHH/Rock ladder match even though HHH started no-selling the knee towards the end of the match.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Even though I completely hate Cena's character(although I wasn't actively watching week to week back then., Cena and the company needed him to win. It was at the height of his big babyface title run where people were having profound distaste for him. He had to be legitimised as a main-eventer, proven to be one of the big guys. As for the match ****

Punk/Jericho is pretty meh to me. I dig the storyline and I really like both wrestler's a lot. However it just didn't mesh well for me. The first 5 and last 5 minutes were great, but inbetween it felt like a drag. I just never clicked with the match. I found their extreme rules match far superior. ***1/2 for WrestleMania, ****1/4 Extreme Rules


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hailsabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Absolutely. It's wonderful. My favorite CM Punk match during his WWE Championship reign. And he's had a good number that I've enjoyed too.


Punk/Bryan OTL is my favourite Punk match from his title reign so far. Hell, its probably my current MOTY, though I should watch Taker/HHH and then this match back to back before I decide which is better .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> The fan inside of me really wanted Rhodes to get a good rub from it. In all honesty he did. Might have only won one match out of the 4 they had, but in the long run it worked out. Was a way for him to transition into a new phase of his career. He was still rolling with the IC Championship at the time so he wasn't in a hurry to be going over Orton in a massive capacity yet. YES. Thank the booking for Rhodes Scholars. Not only does it give Sandow more time, exposure, and a chance to keep establishing himself, but it revives Rhodes. Idk what happened after his program with Christian. He was too busy jobbing to Sin Cara every week? Really? Not gonna go crazy and claim "they almost killed him" but it sure as hell was a step back from how great of a 2011 he had.
> 
> Hey Night of Champions 2008. CENA VS TRIPLE H. (haha) I remember really liking the Edge/Batista match from that show too. On my last watch I had it at **** believe it or not. Buy it. Let me know how it holds up... I wished I had it now. I could always d/l it or wise up and browse Amazon myself. (went on a TNA fix and that took all my cash)


Completely agreed. I was really surprised when Rhodes started losing to Sin Cara. Especially since SIn Cara seems fairly directionless, even in this tag team with Rey.

Those two matches are the main reason I'm looking into it. Plus I keep forgetting Jericho/Kofi w/LANCE CADE happened. Looking at the card Miz/Morrison vs Finlay/Hornswoggle? :lmao I don't remember it but it sounds fun. And FUCK I need Slammiversary '12.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> No, I completely buy that reasoning. Being there live does take a lot out of a fan. 100% fact. I'll throw in that you should rewatch it. Of course, I'm very biased since I think the world of the match, haha. I'm wanting to put it in right now after I finish up some matches I got going atm.


It sounds a bit silly but I honestly do believe that's the reason behind it. I don't remember a single thing about the Raw vs. SD GM match that happened before it. Nothing at all. All I can remember is sitting in my seat lol. Then Edge came out and they did the HOF thing, then Punk had some cool fireworks for his entrance, then the match happened and by the time it was over I was starting to come round again. It was a strange feeling that's for sure. I'll stick it on my list of things to watch I suppose. Maybe at the end of the year when I do a 'Best Of' type of deal to rank my MOTY's and we'll see how it holds up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cleavage said:


> am i a bad person for loving the HHH/Rock ladder match even though HHH started no-selling the knee towards the end of the match.


nah. We all have our guilty pleasures.



KingCal said:


> Punk/Bryan OTL is my favourite Punk match from his title reign so far. Hell, its probably my current MOTY, though I should watch Taker/HHH and then this match back to back before I decide which is better .


Another superb match. Believe it or not, i'm in the minority where I liked Punk vs Danielson MITB more than OTL. Simply by a hair, but it still tops it.



Brye said:


> Completely agreed. I was really surprised when Rhodes started losing to Sin Cara. Especially since SIn Cara seems fairly directionless, even in this tag team with Rey.
> 
> Those two matches are the main reason I'm looking into it. Plus I keep forgetting Jericho/Kofi w/LANCE CADE happened. Looking at the card Miz/Morrison vs Finlay/Hornswoggle? :lmao I don't remember it but it sounds fun. And FUCK I need Slammiversary '12.


It was random as hell. Bad enough to have Rhodes job, but to someone who is a full on garbage talent? boo. No point in complaining now as he is back on track. YES.

IC title was pretty solid upon my memory and that opener did work haha. Don't forget that's the PPV where Rhodes formed Priceless w/Teddy D. CODY RHODES.

I'm watching Slammiversary 2012 atm. What are the odds? lolz



Starbuck said:


> It sounds a bit silly but I honestly do believe that's the reason behind it. I don't remember a single thing about the Raw vs. SD GM match that happened before it. Nothing at all. All I can remember is sitting in my seat lol. Then Edge came out and they did the HOF thing, then Punk had some cool fireworks for his entrance, then the match happened and by the time it was over I was starting to come round again. It was a strange feeling that's for sure. I'll stick it on my list of things to watch I suppose. Maybe at the end of the year when I do a 'Best Of' type of deal to rank my MOTY's and we'll see how it holds up.


Sounds like you were in a WrestleMania/End of an Era euphoric trance. I'm jealous. Well, you know my stance on it. I think we'll all pull out some rewatches to tune up our lists for the best stuff from 2012. I know I need to give a Punk vs Danielson match from RAW (in June iirc) another go. So we all have sometime to kick over again.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> It was random as hell. Bad enough to have Rhodes job, but to someone who is a full on garbage talent? boo. No point in complaining now as he is back on track. YES.
> 
> IC title was pretty solid upon my memory and that opener did work haha. Don't forget that's the PPV where Rhodes formed Priceless w/Teddy D. CODY RHODES.
> 
> I'm watching Slammiversary 2012 atm. What are the odds? lolz


Agreed.

FUCK YES, forgot that Priceless started that night. Just looked through my collection and I own every show from '08 other than NOC and No Way Out so I think I'm buying this now. :lmao

And hell yeah, Joe/Aries :mark:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Sounds like you were in a WrestleMania/End of an Era euphoric trance. I'm jealous. Well, you know my stance on it. I think we'll all pull out some rewatches to tune up our lists for the best stuff from 2012. I know I need to give a Punk vs Danielson match from RAW (in June iirc) another go. So we all have sometime to kick over again.


The whole stadium was. I don't think I've ever seen so many people physically deflate all at the same time lol. It really was a weird thing to experience. For me, Punk's best match this year is vs. Bryan @ OTL and it's my third MOTY so far too. I wonder if we'll get a few more matches in the next 2 months that can be a part of the discussion of MOTY's by the time January rolls along.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TLC usually brings out MOTYC. Or at least a top ten match. Punk/Miz/Del Rio, Rey/Edge/Del Rio/Kane and then I really enjoyed JeriShow/DX from '09 but idk if it's my top ten. Benjamin/Christian was awesome despite the stoppage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Agreed.
> 
> FUCK YES, forgot that Priceless started that night. Just looked through my collection and I own every show from '08 other than NOC and No Way Out so I think I'm buying this now. :lmao
> 
> And hell yeah, Joe/Aries :mark:.


Oh yeah man. Can't forget that. I was pulling for it from the moment Ted cut his awesome debut promo.

That match OWNS. :mark:



Starbuck said:


> The whole stadium was. I don't think I've ever seen so many people physically deflate all at the same time lol. It really was a weird thing to experience. For me, Punk's best match this year is vs. Bryan @ OTL and it's my third MOTY so far too. I wonder if we'll get a few more matches in the next 2 months that can be a part of the discussion of MOTY's by the time January rolls along.


I saw a video on Youtube from a fans POV during the Hell in a Cell and yeah, I can firmly believe it. Even the security guards were marking. THAT NEVER HAPPENS. GM vs GM tag didn't stand a chance following it. Granted the crowd wasn't really dead following End of an Era. That was awesome of the crowd.

I like to hope so. WWE has given us some good tv matches here and there. Sheamus vs Sandow, Sheamus vs Barrett x2, Danielson vs Ziggler, & Danielson vs Del Rio. Now I don't think they'll make the MOTYC list at the end of the day, but they were still good contests. So the potential is booming. TLC PPV might be one to look at. Especially if we get another awesome TLC match like last year.

EDIT ~ Damn Brye stole my momentum by mentioning how TLC is a clutch PPV for quality matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ryback in a ladder match could be interesting lol. I don't really see any other option tbh unless they completely kill him off on Sunday. It will most likely be some combo of Punk, Ryback and Cena at TLC. Speaking of which, I'm going to a house show in early November and the advertised main event is Punk/Cena anything goes iirc. I wonder if Cena will be able to actually work on the tour though or if we'll get Punk/Ryback instead. Depending on how things go this weekend, that could really suck. Here's to hoping Cena really IS superman and can work the match lol. I'd like to see Punk/Cena live. They always deliver.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Cena anything goes at a houseshow sounds awesome.

I sort of got to see Punk/Cena live. Just as a tag match as Punk/Truth vs Cena/Kofi (the two hometown boys). :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC? Good matches? Uhhh... yeah, don't agree with that in the slightest. Had a look at the cards for all the TLC PPV's... not a single match I'd go over *** for .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed, and Choke2Death saying "hadn't HHH hogged the spotlight enough at that point" is ironic considering Cena hasn't left the spotlight since that match...


But that was just the beginning of it. Hunter had been at the top in some way since 2000 and the only time he really left the spot was when he went out with the quad injury. That and his "end of Evolution" feud with Flair in late 2005. Cena had the title for one year and fans looked like they wanted to kill him.

For the life of me I still can't understand how the hatred towards Cena reached _such_ an aggressive height. Nobody had ever gotten blunt "Fuck you" chants before him in the WWE and the boos he received spread from city to city like a disease. From the 2005 stuff I've seen, after his Angle feud started, the little bit of booing followed him in every city (even when he paid tribute to Eddie Guerrero) and then when 2006 started, it took over completely.

I guess Vince just didn't know what to do at that point. Cena needed to lose the belt due to the heat he got, Edge still had his briefcase to cash in and they wanted Cena/HHH for WM22 badly so they had to force Cena down throats at the expense of Edge and have the crowd just sucking it up.

And couldn't agree more on the comment of the fan that was speechless when Hunter tapped out. That's a classic picture I can't forget. He was literally confused and shrugged after that finish. Has there every been any other instances where a crowd got silenced like that after the end of a match?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao at that shitty match (Punk/Truth vs. Kofi/Cena). That's horrible although I bet I won't be laughing if I get Punk/Ryback lol. But you never know, they might surprise us. I'm personally hoping for a good old fashioned cowardly heel and destroyer babyface match for this Sunday. The cell is the perfect environment for it too. I just don't know who I want to win. I suppose I don't really care either way and whatever happens, it will be something to talk about the next day.

EDIT - Imagine the reaction had Cena won at 28? I would have been running for the nearest exit had that happened. Shit was ready to turn into a full blown riot lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingCal said:


> TLC? Good matches? Uhhh... yeah, don't agree with that in the slightest. Had a look at the cards for all the TLC PPV's... not a single match I'd go over *** for .


What about SHEAMUS vs JOHN MORRISON?

don't let the caps fool you. I really did love that match. (maybe I'm the only one)

I often ponder what would have happened if Cena won. Still wished it did. Then have Cena lose to Brock come Extreme Rules. That was my perfect scenario.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Totally forgot Sheamus/Morrison. That match was great. ****, imo.

Cal, no love for Punk/Miz/Del Rio?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah, that totally happened at TLC didn't it? One of the top singles ladder matches ever.

Edit: Nope, not a fan. Still, its nowhere near as terrible as the 4 way from the year before or whenever it was.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Really thought Morrison had a bright future after winning that feud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok good. That gets praise. Favorite match from that PPV franchise. The 2010 & 2011 TLC matches worked for me too. What was it about the 4 way from 2010 that you thought was crap, KC?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena losing to Rock, then losing to Brock, then going on a year long storyline where he questions whether he's still got it as a top guy, maybe with a PPV match against a younger guy like Rhodes or something who could really reap the rewards of getting a victory off him during a story arc like that, would have been immense. The feud with Punk still could have played out with Cena simply being unable to beat him. Then they could build to Cena literally _having_ to win the Rumble to rid himself of his self doubt and earn his shot at Wrestlemania. He does so under questionable circumstances. In between the Rumble and Mania they could set up the rematch with Rock but this time we don't know if Cena can win because they play on the fact that Rock already beat him before along with his miserable year etc. Is Cena still the top dog in WWE? Then Cena finally triumphs in the end to overcome and win the title and stay face...OR he realizes that he can't win by playing fairly anymore and does the unthinkable...HEEL TURN BOOM. That would have been awesome imo and a story more than worth the investment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty much everything lol. Shitty brawling, the fact it was all randomly thrown together, and that it was nothing but SPOTZ~!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Cena losing to Rock, then losing to Brock, then going on a year long storyline where he questions whether he's still got it as a top guy, maybe with a PPV match against a younger guy like Rhodes or something who could really reap the rewards of getting a victory off him during a story arc like that, would have been immense. Then they could build to Cena literally _having_ to win the Rumble to rid himself of his self doubt and earn his shot at Wrestlemania. He does so under questionable circumstances. In between the Rumble and Mania they could set up the rematch with Rock but this time we don't know if Cena can win because they play on the fact that Rock already beat him before along with his miserable year etc. Is Cena still the top dog in WWE? Then Cena finally triumphs in the end to overcome and win the title and stay face...OR he realizes that he can't win by playing fairly anymore and does the unthinkable...HEEL TURN BOOM. That would have been awesome imo and a story more than worth the investment.


Would have been WWE giving a losing streak storyline to someone that could actually work with it and not just lose all the momentum they've ever had (cough Shelton cough MVP cough). I love the idea of that. Shame it didn't happen.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> EDIT - Imagine the reaction had Cena won at 28? I would have been running for the nearest exit had that happened. Shit was ready to turn into a full blown riot lol.


The crowd sure looked like they were ready to start some shit when Cena attempted the People's Elbow. The way the boos echoed throughout the arena was just amazing.



Starbuck said:


> Cena losing to Rock, then losing to Brock, then going on a year long storyline where he questions whether he's still got it as a top guy, maybe with a PPV match against a younger guy like Rhodes or something who could really reap the rewards of getting a victory off him during a story arc like that, would have been immense. The feud with Punk still could have played out with Cena simply being unable to beat him. Then they could build to Cena literally _having_ to win the Rumble to rid himself of his self doubt and earn his shot at Wrestlemania. He does so under questionable circumstances. In between the Rumble and Mania they could set up the rematch with Rock but this time we don't know if Cena can win because they play on the fact that Rock already beat him before along with his miserable year etc. Is Cena still the top dog in WWE? Then Cena finally triumphs in the end to overcome and win the title and stay face...OR he realizes that he can't win by playing fairly anymore and does the unthinkable...HEEL TURN BOOM. That would have been awesome imo and a story more than worth the investment.


That would have been great. They can still correct that mistake by doing Rock/Cena II but turn Cena heel on his way to victory. Although it may be too late with Punk already being a heel. But hey, I'm all for them burying Punk and letting Cena take the top heel spot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Cena losing to Rock, then losing to Brock, then going on a year long storyline where he questions whether he's still got it as a top guy, maybe with a PPV match against a younger guy like Rhodes or something who could really reap the rewards of getting a victory off him during a story arc like that, would have been immense. The feud with Punk still could have played out with Cena simply being unable to beat him. Then they could build to Cena literally _having_ to win the Rumble to rid himself of his self doubt and earn his shot at Wrestlemania. He does so under questionable circumstances. In between the Rumble and Mania they could set up the rematch with Rock but this time we don't know if Cena can win because they play on the fact that Rock already beat him before along with his miserable year etc. Is Cena still the top dog in WWE? Then Cena finally triumphs in the end to overcome and win the title and stay face...OR he realizes that he can't win by playing fairly anymore and does the unthinkable...HEEL TURN BOOM. That would have been awesome imo and a story more than worth the investment.


Perfect. Too bad WWE are morons and never want to pull the trigger with the Cena going heel stuff.



KingCal said:


> Pretty much everything lol. Shitty brawling, the fact it was all randomly thrown together, and that it was nothing but SPOTZ~!


Oh yeah it was thrown together. Thanks to fans not giving a damn about the Mysterio/Del Rio program :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

There's no point in doing a story like that now though since they ruined it at the very next PPV by having him go over Brock. It would be stupid and half assed at this stage. It needed to be done right from the beginning. Remember this?






"I _need_ to win...Wrestlemania 28 is my legacy..."

So much for that. They fucking forgot about what was said in this promo as soon as it aired. There were no consequences or knock on effects of Cena losing to Rock. Nothing happened. He bounced back right away, got demolished by Brock Lesnar and managed to win in the end. There's your year long struggle to prove you still have it jammed into 3 weeks. Yay for storytelling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They put that story you wrote out into effect for the hype video vs Brock. It would have mushroomed from there if he actually would have lost.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yup. But they fucked it up as usual. It never ceases to amaze me that a company who prides itself on 'telling stories' can't seem to do it worth a damn anymore. Occasionally we'll get masterful glimmers of hope in amongst the sea of shit but for the most part, as a storytelling sports entertainment organization, WWE fucking suck lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Yup. But they fucked it up as usual. It never ceases to amaze me that a company who prides itself on 'telling stories' can't seem to do it worth a damn anymore. Occasionally we'll get masterful glimmers of hope in amongst the sea of shit but for the most part, as a storytelling sports entertainment organization, WWE fucking suck lol.


One of the big reasons I've hated 2012. It started off well and a Cena heel turn would have done wonders. But then they fucked it up and went to a status quo that was last around before the 2011 summer.



> Oh yeah it was thrown together. Thanks to fans not giving a damn about the Mysterio/Del Rio program :lmao


On the serious tip, does anyone ever give a damn about Del Rio? I almost feel sorry for the guy. WWE tries _anything_ they can and fans don't bother booing him even in protest of being shoved down their throats.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> On the serious tip, does anyone ever give a damn about Del Rio? I almost feel sorry for the guy. WWE tries _anything_ they can and fans don't bother booing him even in protest of being shoved down their throats.


Can't say I have cared, and can't say I feel sorry for the guy, because he's still put in main events even when he's not champion and still apparently high on Vince's list of guys. I feel sorry for Bryan, who's made to look like a joke despite getting over and remaining over. When was the last time he even won a match. Or in a case somewhat similar to Del Rio, I also feel sorry for Barrett, who was given the Nexus angle (which could be compared to Del Rio getting two WWE Titles and a Rumble win depending on how you look at it), but was actually very over and ready to win the title as the top heel in WWE, only to have the rug swept out from under him and pushed into mid-card hell where he's been the project of half-ass pushes, storylines and character-development. His recent return promos and eventual return perfectly fits Barrett's whole run. High expectations, but piss poor results due to creative.

But yeah, can't say I feel bad for Del Rio. I can't honestly see him ever getting released, where with Barrett there's always that possibility in my head, or with Bryan he could just end up being another Santino as time goes on (maybe slightly more legitimate but still in terms of being a comedy character). Del Rio has a solid place in Vince's eyes from what it seems, even if the fans don't give a damn for him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That's why I used the word "almost". Del Rio has great in-ring talent but he can't connect with an audience if his life depended on it. Only time I remember him getting actively booed was before HIAC 2011 when he beat Punk and Cena with a chair and that one time when the crowd chanted "Asshole" in Spanish to him.

At the same time he's been given far too much for what he's bringing whereas guys in the same position have been cut off because of it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

- Cena does the empty arena promo and the "i can't lose" promo.
- Cena cockiness cost him the match with Rock.
- Cena gets dropped with an F-5 by the returning Lesnar.
- Cena gets his jaw jacked by Lesnar and F-5ed the next week.
- Lesnar sh*ts on Cena in a video hyping their Extreme Rules match.
- Cena loses the Lord Tensai in his first month back in the WWE.
- Edge returns and tells Cena to "wake up".

Even when he beat Lesnar i thought "ok he'll go into a feud with Punk, fail to win the title back and turn heel".
In a month everything he went through didn't matter anymore.


I didn't care about the matches or the wrestlers involved at the time, but i thought the match with ADR/Mysterio/Kane/Edge was really good.
ADR takes a nasty table bump towards the end of the match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> That's why I used the word "almost". Del Rio has great in-ring talent but he can't connect with an audience if his life depended on it. Only time I remember him getting actively booed was before HIAC 2011 when he beat Punk and Cena with a chair and that one time when the crowd chanted "Asshole" in Spanish to him.
> 
> At the same time he's been given far too much for what he's bringing whereas guys in the same position have been cut off because of it.


Yeah, he's good in the ring. Love his top rope enziguri and I like that his kicks and strikes look effective. 

He gets booed very rarely... honestly I'm pretty sure I've heard him get cheered more than booed. His mic skills are pretty bad as well. It doesn't help either that WWE gives us no reason to care. All he does is come out in a fancy car, a nice scarf and smile to the ring. He competes, he gets to get the upperhand on faces more often than other heels, but it's in a generic way. Rarely do we see him use his wealth to his advantage. He used it to some extent against Sheamus when he hired all those thugs to act as cops and arrest Sheamus, only to have them all beat him down, and from the SD spoilers he may have used Barrett to attack Orton (which from what it looks like they didn't really play up the fact at all).

For all of Del Rio's problems with connecting with the audience that are his fault, part of the problem is WWE's booking of his character.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I've noticed that ADR has gotten bigger pops than heat during his career. I've even stated that I think he would probably do better as a face instead of a heel. Nobody cares. He might have a fan or two on a place like this, but that's the minority. Instead fans sit on their hands when they see him and we have to continue being force fed this guy who's honestly done nothing. For all the accolades he has behind him it still feels like he's done zero within the company. Something has to be wrong when that is the case.

Good wrestler though. Always thought that. That's not his problem though. Getting over is.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Just watched Finlay vs. Benoit Judgement Day 06 :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:

What a fantastic match, from finlay's incredible dickish heel performance and targeting benoit's neck. There's this awesome moment near the start where finlay calls the ref over to check his eye then uses the ref as a shield to attack benoit. Finlay's targeting of the neck is awesome, from the brutal clotheslines to the workover segments where all the attention is placed on the neck. I love the subtle things about finlay, stuff like jamming his knee onto benoit's head during a cover is so awesome. 

Benoit plays a great babyface as well, his comeback gets stopped multiple times, he hits an awesome german suplex onto the floor which is a fantastic desperation spot. Great selling and storytelling

Easily **** 1/2-****3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You know, if Barrett had just debuted for WWE and not already had a near 3 year career with them, I'd say it would've been perfect if he debuted as Del Rio's bodyguard/problem solver/mercenary whom Del Rio hired due to hearing about his bare-knuckle fighting... a guy to get the job done for Del Rio and get over in the process, while also playing to Del Rio's strength and getting over himself. Eventually he would turn on Del Rio, which would either make him a face (which is hard to see Barrett as), or if it'd been booked correctly, to somehow manipulate Del Rio, get the World Title and stab Del Rio in the back.

Now it may be too late for that to play out like that exactly, but I think a partnership between them in some fashion would be ideal for both men at this point, with them acknowledging it to the benefit of both Barrett and Del Rio.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, but look at what Wade was given to debut with. Negating that to be a hired muscle for Del Rio severely pales in comparison. Wade's current role right now is fine. If any momentum was lost it was simply due to his unfortunate injury hindering him. Before he got injured he was fine thanks to the Barrett Barrage/feud vs Orton.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Hailsabin said:


> They put that story you wrote out into effect for the hype video vs Brock. It would have mushroomed from there if he actually would have lost.


The only reason I figured Brock lost to Cena was that they had no plans for them to have a rematch and they needed a reason for Triple H to tell Brock that the demands he had requested were rejected. I guess they felt if he went out their destroyed Cena like he did and beat him 1-2-3 would kind of make Triple H look dumb in not agreeing to what Lesnar wanted when he did everything he said he was going to do.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH had no reason to have a match with Lesnar anyway. Or, at the very least, not a big headlining notable one. Lesnar pins Cena clean then goes on a berserk rampage wiping everybody out until someone who they want to push stops him. Let's say Ryback (even if I don't like him). The Lesnar/HHH match wouldn't need all that build, but Lesnar making HHH tap out would still mean a lot. Brock continues to fuck people up and scare everybody shitless until he is eventually stopped by Ryback (or someone else). 

Cena on the other hand could have had an awesome losing streak thing going. Loses to Rock at Mania, loses to Brock at ExRules, loses to Johnny at OTL (which actually happened yet they didn't want him losing to Lesnar). That's two guys who haven;t had a match in years and a guy who hasn't had a match since...IDFK...1999? This could go until a possible Rock/Cena II where he tries to get his win back and stop losing everything. I've said this IDK how many times since June but man they could have done something really great with all of this and just blew it. How often the Rock or Lesnar would be showing up would be a factor, but fuck, if they're going to be involved in major stories - either show up almost every week or just fuck off.

It was annoying when they blew the CM Punk thing last year, but after this...forget it, I have no faith in them to pull off anything like this successfully any more. It's like they're actually trying to get our hopes up only to pull it away when it could get really good. Lucy With The Football.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm still hoping against hope they pull a Toguro/Yusuke with Brock/Cena. AHH, come the fuck on.

I really love Trips/Cena Mania 22. Fairly certain I like it more than Punk/Jericho from this year.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry to go back to the topic of TLC now that we have moved on, but this is something that I thought of the other day. What will be happening with the tag team titles at that PPV? I know last year it was just a standard match because nobody gave a shit. But with what they have been doing with the tag team division this year (it's about 10x better than it was at this point last year) I began wondering if they will do a little more.

Could they be given a gimmick match? Or it will it just be another standard tag team match? I would like to see a tag team ladder match, but if not that then I would settle for a table match. Would anyone else like to see that? Could it work?

On the other topic of quality TV matches from this year. I'd have to watch it again but I think I would put Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus in a Street Fight from Raw 1001 as one of the best TV matches of the year. From how I remember it, it was really good.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

An Elimination Tables Match with a bunch of teams could be fun. I don't expect anything more than fun out of the current division anyway.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Cal, do you have RAW 00/01 on dic?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course I could see something with the tag titles getting a gimmick match. It main evented 2009 afterall. (yeah, I know who was involved, but it still ended the show) If Team Hell No remain champs till then or the titles remain elevated at their current level then it can work no problem.

I bet fans wouldn't even care if there was a random ladder match for the tag titles if they fell off the map again. They'll simply eat up the gimmick for what it is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Cal, do you have RAW 00/01 on dic?


Yep:

Raw 2000 (52 discs)
Raw 2001 (52 discs)


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Chris Benoit & Gunner Scott (Brent Albright) vs. Booker T & Finlay- Smackdown 05/2006*

-Best part was my daughter asking me if Gunner Scott was Benoit's little brother :lol Anyways a really solid tag team match with everyone playing their roles; Gunner playing the inexperienced yet capable rookie while surrounded by vets in Benoit/Booker/Finlay. Some solid spots though a couple of hiccups; good TV match. ***

*Brothers of Destruction vs. King Booker & Finlay- Smackdown 12/2006*

-I love how well JBL used to put over Smackdown it really made the brand extension feel important. Solid TV fare here with Taker & Kane sticking to their size and power while King Booker & Finlay relies on craftiness. 3/4 of the match belongs to BOD before Finlay/Booker takes control with Taker eating a chair, a low blow and a shillelagh. That lasts about 2-3 minutes before Taker no sells everything, gets the hot tag and cleans house. Typical tag formula here **1/2.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Is Armageddon 2007 any good?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Is Armageddon 2007 any good?


Don't remember all of it, but I'll try and help:

Mysterio Vs MVP - On paper this looks good, so probably worth a watch
BDV & Henry Vs Kane & Punk - On paper it looks kinda sucky, but I dunno, might actually be entertaining in parts lol
HBK Vs Kennedy - Solid match, but I still think their best match together was the first Raw HD show
HHH Vs Hardy - Yeah, its good. They had better of course, but this is still good
Finlay Vs Khali - Not even Finlay can do much with the Punjabi Retard
Orton Vs Jericho - Don't remember liking this, but it probably was solid
Beth Vs Mickie James - Doesn't get much time, but I can't imagine this being bad as far as diva matches go
Undertaker Vs Edge Vs Batista - Love this match. I like how they take the basic "2 guys in the ring, one on the outside" formula and actually put a unique spin on it. Plus Edge puts in a character performance of a lifetime. Most certainly MOTN and one of my all time favourite triple threats.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I like Armageddon '07. MVP/Rey, HBK/Kennedy, Orton/Jericho and HHH/Hardy are all good and Edge/Taker/Batista owns. The tag match isn't as bad as it sounds but it's not that good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm a fan of the Orton/Jericho match except the finish. A solid ***1/2 for me.

Speaking of Armageddon, I'm at the main event of 2004. YAY, 2004 is also over soon, 05 here I come!

(BELOW IS THE 04 REVIEW)

*Armageddon 2004:*

*Rey Mysterio & RVD vs René Duprée & Kenzo Suzuki - **3/4
- A decent bout and better than their previous match. Although the double 619 was botched badly due to bad positioning.

*Kurt Angle vs "Santa Claus" - 0
- No comments.

*Daniel Puder vs Mike "The Miz" Mizanin - **3/4
- This is pretty much a boxing, unscripted match between the two. Pretty fun to watch and Puder wins by popularity.

*Basham Brothers vs Hardcore Holly & Charlie Haas - *
- Nothing screams random more than the face tag team on this one.

*John Cena vs Jesus - **1/2
- This is more or less a squash match for Cena and he destroys HeySoose for almost ten minutes. I really like this intense Cena. He would be so great if he had this attitude as part of his character. Also the spinning US Title belt is introduced here as well as the "Ruck Fules" t-shirt. As a massive hip-hop fan, I love the spinning belts Cena introduced including the WWE Title. Turntables for the win!

*Dawn Marie vs Miss Jackie - 1/2*
- More entertaining to look out for the struggled attempts at performing some moves correctly than anything else.

*Big Show vs Kurt Angle, Mark Jindrak & Luther Reigns - **1/2
- Nothing really much. Big Show takes on all three in a handicap match and wins following a.... F5!

*Spike Dudley vs Funaki - **3/4
- Not bad but nothing great. This was out of nowhere as Funaki only ever wrestled to get squashed before this sudden push he gets.

*JBL vs Eddie Guerrero vs Undertaker vs Booker T - ***1/2
- Is a standard four way for the most part of the first 10-15 minutes but towards the end after Booker & JBL go through a table, this gets absolutely awesome and exciting to watch. A bunch of finisher exchanges between all four and Heidenreich is the one to interfere in Bradshaw's behalf against the Undertaker. If I didn't know the result beforehand, this would have probably been a bit better. Also wish there had been more exchanges between Eddie and Taker since this is the only time they were opponents. Another thing worth mentioning is the botched powerbomb by JBL on the table and how well he improvised instantly by dropping an elbow on Booker to break the thing. (since some cables got Booker's foot stuck therefore JBL couldn't lift him properly)

*Overall:* **1/2 out of ***** (A great main event, some alright undercard stuff and some outright duds. This is pretty much a mixed-bag and still, it's one of the better Smackdown PPVs for 2004. Ranking for the whole year will come in a couple of days when I finish watching the final Raw & SD episodes.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Armageddon 2007 is all around pretty darn good. HBK gets Kennedy to what was his best singles PPV match, Mysterio meshed well with MVP iirc, Orton/Jericho had a really good bout, ECW tag wasn't nearly as bas as you would've figured, Divas was short but refreshing, main event triple threat was fun, and Hardy/HHH had a nice storytelling bout. I even remember Finlay carring Khali to one of his most bearable matches. 

So yeah, I'd get it. One of the better all around PPVs of that year.

lol @ Armageddon 2004. I hate that show so much.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I remember Funaki's push very well lol. He wins a battle royale, holds the title for a couple of months then loses and becomes a jobber again. Very strange :lol

I thought we would see the same thing happening (but this time winning the US title) when the Kung Fu Naki gimmick started.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That lasted for about 2 weeks. Then back to jobber town. Turns out MVP got the push instead. I would have prefered Funaki with a kung-fu gimmick...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I enjoyed Funaki for what he was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Funaki was an underrated cat. I was serious about taking him over MVP. MVP sucks.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah. So I walked into my local cex on friday to find that they had received a shit load of classic post 2001 WWE DVD's. Managed to pick up No Mercy 2002, Backlash 2004, Bad Blood 2004, Unforgiven 2004, Survivor Series 2005, No Way Out 2008 and One Night Stand 2008 for just over £20. I stopped watching after SummerSlam 2002 so this was a real treat for me. Going back for more tomorrow.

Watching in date order and currently on Bad Blood 2004. No Mercy 2002 was decent with a good main event and Backlash 2004 was an absolute cracker in general. One thing that I'm really noticing is how much of a star Orton was back then. Fucking hell, the guy actually had passion and an ounce of charisma. Based on his early showings I can see why Vince placed so much faith in him.

I'm not big into the whole snowflakes thing but thought that this was the most appropriate place to drop this story.

Oh, and talking of Funaki, his interview with Al Wilson during No Mercy 2002 had me in stitches!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Get ready for 2005, Choke2Death. There were tons of great feuds and moments (HHH/Batista, Hardy/Edge, Angle/HBK, Orton/Undertaker, Christian's rise, HHH/Flair, ONS, Guerrero/Mysterio matches, MNM, Benoit/Booker T, Hassan). However, there were so many absolutely awful parts of that year as well (Cena's first reign of terror, Chris Masters, Kurt Angle jobbing out, Guerrero/Mysterio storyline, Batista's string of terrible matches, Smackdown midcard/PPVs, death of Cruiserweight division, Hogan, Big Show, weak television).


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Soooo, anyone think there will be some near classics tomorrow night? i mean Show/Sheamus right


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AndreBaker said:


> Yeah. So I walked into my local cex on friday to find that they had received a shit load of classic post 2001 WWE DVD's. Managed to pick up No Mercy 2002, Backlash 2004, Bad Blood 2004, Unforgiven 2004, Survivor Series 2005, No Way Out 2008 and One Night Stand 2008 for just over £20. I stopped watching after SummerSlam 2002 so this was a real treat for me. Going back for more tomorrow.
> 
> Watching in date order and currently on Bad Blood 2004. No Mercy 2002 was decent with a good main event and Backlash 2004 was an absolute cracker in general. One thing that I'm really noticing is how much of a star Orton was back then. Fucking hell, the guy actually had passion and an ounce of charisma. Based on his early showings I can see why Vince placed so much faith in him.
> 
> ...


No Mercy was decent but it had the two stellar matches from Smackdown. Undertaker/Brock & Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio. Much of the same with Backlash actually. Decent overall show filled with two incredible strong classics.

NWO '08 is a load of fun to watch. I'm sure you'll dig the RAW elmination chamber. It ruled.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Get ready for 2005, Choke2Death. There were tons of great feuds and moments (HHH/Batista, Hardy/Edge, Angle/HBK, Orton/Undertaker, Christian's rise, HHH/Flair, ONS, Guerrero/Mysterio matches, MNM, Benoit/Booker T, Hassan). However, there were so many absolutely awful parts of that year as well (*Cena's first reign of terror, Chris Masters, Kurt Angle jobbing out, Guerrero/Mysterio storyline*, Batista's string of terrible matches, Smackdown midcard/PPVs, death of Cruiserweight division, Hogan, Big Show, weak television).


none of those were bad (specify the custody part of Eddie/Mysterio only)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ever Wolf said:


> Soooo, anyone think there will be some near classics tomorrow night? i mean Show/Sheamus right


Doubt we'll get anything great from HIAC. Maybe one ***1/2 at best.

Show/Sheamus has potential to be a good brawl though. Ryback/Punk intrigues me because I just don't know what the fuck they are going to do. And in wrestling, I like that (most of the time, anyway lol). Tag title match could be really fun and is probably the one match likely to be MOTN if it gets the time. STF with Bryan playing FIP is all they need to do.

Oh hey, apparently Russo was interviewed for the new NWO documentary. I said when we heard about his release from TNA that it would be cool if they could get him for the AE set. With him in the NWO doc I'd say there is a good chance he is/was/will be involved in that set too.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> No Mercy was decent but it had the two stellar matches from Smackdown. Undertaker/Brock & Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio. Much of the same with Backlash actually. Decent overall show filled with two incredible strong classics.
> 
> NWO '08 is a load of fun to watch. I'm sure you'll dig the RAW elmination chamber. It ruled.


Taker/Brock was great and I did enjoy the tag match. The crowd was absolutely red hot for HHH/Kane, I didn't realise how popular the big red machine was at that time, and that's in spite of that dreadful angle!

I enjoyed the triple threat at Backlash just as much as I did Mania XX, especially for the home crowd reaction, you know, despite everything. LOVED Orton vs Foley, just brutal.

Up to the Women's match on Bad Blood 2004, a bit meh so far.

Looking forward to that Raw EC at No Way Out 08 now (Y)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Honestly i can't see Punk/Ryback being anything other than an awkward fumble of a match, one of their credibility will be DESTROYED. If i had to choose just keep Punk as champion, it seems everyone has turned on him a bit, but i'm still loving him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AndreBaker said:


> Taker/Brock was great and I did enjoy the tag match. The crowd was absolutely red hot for HHH/Kane, I didn't realise how popular the big red machine was at that time, and that's in spite of that dreadful angle!
> 
> I enjoyed the triple threat at Backlash just as much as I did Mania XX, especially for the home crowd reaction, you know, despite everything. LOVED Orton vs Foley, just brutal.
> 
> ...


KANE has a good history of being over with the fans. It's why he's managed to work the same gimmick for well over a decade. But yeah, Katie Vick stuff...yikes.

Yep. Same here. I give both the full 5 snowflakes. Managed to create two different matches with the same 3 guys and have them both be perfect. Unreal. Foley vs Orton is classic. I want to know anyone who honestly doesn't enjoy that match. Something we've all (at least myself and my brother at least) have seen many, many times.

Bad Blood '04 is meh. Granted it does have 3 solid/good matches. Crowd blows though. Benoit/Kane was the MOTN. HHH/HBK is one you'll see mixed reviews on. Be prepared for the long haul in that one if you weren't aware.

Russo actually did something with the E again? Wow. That's worth buying alone to hear what he has to say.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I believe that Punk can get a passable to decent main event out of Ryback, all he needs to do is be a punching bag/bump machine while derailing the match from time to time with some dirty tactics. Should be a simple enough formula.

It's too early for Ryback to be WWE champion, not to mention it scuppers Punk vs Rock at the Rumble. If Punk drops it to Ryback and then takes it back it ruins both guys' momentum. Just silly.

Have Brock (or Goldberg, I'll wake up soon) interfere and have Punk retain. Simple stuff and it gives Ryback a feud after hell in a cell. Could even have Lesnar, Punk, Ziggler, Del Rio vs Ryback, Cena, Sheamus, Orton at Survivor Series, or something like that.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WWE need to have a huge 5 on 5 at Survivor Series, Team Heyman vs. Team HHH or McMahon or something.

Build up like we had in 2005 would be awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Get ready for 2005, Choke2Death. There were tons of great feuds and moments (HHH/Batista, Hardy/Edge, Angle/HBK, Orton/Undertaker, Christian's rise, HHH/Flair, ONS, Guerrero/Mysterio matches, MNM, Benoit/Booker T, Hassan). However, there were so many absolutely awful parts of that year as well (Cena's first reign of terror, Chris Masters, Kurt Angle jobbing out, Guerrero/Mysterio storyline, Batista's string of terrible matches, Smackdown midcard/PPVs, death of Cruiserweight division, Hogan, Big Show, weak television).


I am well ready for it. And funny you say that about Cena's reign because I've loved the bits of it I've seen. As a huge Cena fan, I expect to enjoy his supposed "reign of terror" throughout 05-07. SPECIALLY in 05 when he was still a fresh face in the main event. But it's all opinions, I guess. Similarly, I know you have enjoyed Phil's reign of terror this year whereas I've stopped watching thanks to it.



Oliver-94 said:


> I remember Funaki's push very well lol. He wins a battle royale, holds the title for a couple of months then loses and becomes a jobber again. Very strange :lol
> 
> I thought we would see the same thing happening (but this time winning the US title) when the Kung Fu Naki gimmick started.


I hate when they do this type of stop-start-stop pushes. It's so damn stupid and it's abused today more than ever.



AndreBaker said:


> Up to the Women's match on Bad Blood 2004, a bit meh so far.


Get ready to enjoy the Benoit/Kane match which is absolutely awesome but also be prepared to fall asleep thanks to the HIAC main event which is absolutely terrible.

---------------------------------------------------

Random ratings:
*
Edge vs Chris Benoit (Steel Cage)* - Raw 22/11/04 (*** - Decent at best, surprised that I didn't enjoy it much. Probably because it was a bit too short and the cage stipulation was not really put into effect as much as it should've. My least favorite cage match with Benoit. I prefer all the bouts with Angle, Rock and JBL to this.)

*HHH vs Chris Benoit vs Edge* - Raw 29/11/04 (*** - Again, it was a decent match but feels a bit short and doesn't have that huge main event "thing" written all over it like such a match should. Still liked it while it lasted and the finish was a funny way to strip HHH off the title. I guess they did it just for the 10th reign and to reinsert Orton into the picture.)
*
Randy Orton vs Edge* - Raw 13/12/04 (***1/2 - Absolutely awesome match. This one gets a lot of time and both men put on their best in a decent back-and-forth well-paced match. Also about time I've seen a main event face get a decisive victory over a heel on Raw 04 since everything ends in DQ or a controversial win for the heels. This is a very underrated match that needs to be checked out by more!)


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Get ready to enjoy the Benoit/Kane match which is absolutely awesome but also be prepared to fall asleep thanks to the HIAC main event which is absolutely terrible.


Just started watching and both guys are working a stiff style so far which is a good start as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm not really expecting any match to pass ***1/4 tomorrow night other than the tag title match. Maybe Del Rio/Orton but I just can't give a fuck about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Preach on. Orton vs ADR can be a good wrestling match on paper. That's all it has behind it. I can't see how anyone would care. It's the two most dull characters in the company duking it out.

Tag Titles should be the premiere match, imo. WWE Championship is interesting and I'm hoping the World Championship match works out. Don't know what to expect from both, tbhayley.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Have they declared if Show/Sheamus is in a cell or not? I feel like it hasn't been emphasized at all. If it is, there's at least a chance that the cell could make the match interesting.

I'm confused as fuck on Punk/Ryback. I just hope it's not 4 minutes long.

Only 6 matches announced? Cesaro/Gabriel 10+ mins PLZ.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not. Only Cell match is the main event.

It shouldn't be. I actually think it might go a decent length. I mean, it has to right?

That's what I'm hoping for. I enjoyed that the most from RAW this week simply due to it having a chance to make the show. Would be perfect to open.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I expect Orton/Del Rio to have either the MOTN of SOTN; Orton hasn't a bad PPV match since forever and I've definitely been marking out for his work these past 2 years. I'm" going ***1/2+ easily. Ryback/Punk will be carried through on intrigue alone, regardless of match quality.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I hope Orton/Del Rio is the opener or at least the second match. I'm only willing to watch this match and couldn't care less for everything else so it would help that I stream that and just forget about the event and do something else rest of the night. That and I also have a project of sorts where I rate Orton's PPV matches and will do a top 50 best matches for him at some point down the line. A submission victory for Del Rio can go to hell, though! Bad enough they did it once, shouldn't happen again.

Orton's 2012 PPV matches:

Royal Rumble Match - ***
vs Kane (Wrestlemania 28) - ***1/4
vs Kane (Extreme Rules) - ***1/2
vs Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio vs Chris Jericho (Over the Limit) - ****
vs Dolph Ziggler (Night of Champions) - ***1/2

This just made me realize how much of the year he's missed out on. Fuck the WWE for leaving him off the SummerSlam card and jobbing him out like that. Give him another World Title, dammit!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I dunno if I'd want to see Orton with the title in his current role. The fact that he looks like '06 Orton makes me want to see him kill legends and go heel though. I just haven't been interested in his character for about 2 1/2 to 3 years now. He's been pretty consistent in the ring though.

Oddly enough, I'd say '09, Orton's big character change year, was his worst year for match quality since '03.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I need to give Orton's 09 matches another watch. Although I'm willing to go as far as 2008 in my yearly journeys (or up to WM25), I might go through 09 just because Orton as top heel is exciting. But that means I'm also gonna have to put up with the horror of guest hosts and Hornswoggle beating Chavo so that's a bit of a hard decision to make. At the same time, some stuff on Smackdown concerning Jericho, Undertaker and so on makes me wanna go that far. For his matches that year, I personally like his series with Cena. SS 09 is the weakest of the bunch but that's down to overbooking. HIAC is one of the better matches in the PG era (for HIAC) and the Ironman match was awesome. I don't remember I Quit too well but the problem I can think of is SuperCena.

But you are onto something with this. Orton's 03 matches show that he's still very green at that point and outside of his first PPV match with HBK, the Survivor Series elimination match and Armageddon with RVD, I don't recall anything memorable involving him. In 04, he improved big time and I can only assume that's what he does in 05 and 06 when he goes to Smackdown. Then when he becomes a permanent main eventer in 07, his ring work is solid and carries on to 08 until his injury. So 09 might be his weakest year in-ring wise. But he was nothing special in 2010 either. Last year, however, his work started picking up big time and for the little amount of time he's been on TV or PPVs, he's still a solid wrestler.

I just wish they'd turn him heel already. It's clear neither he nor WWE give a fuck about him being a face but he still is forced to continue floating around with no real feuds and all this talk of "Sheamus needs a trusted face to work Smackdown with him" needs to stop since WWE treats him like a joke anyways. Turn him into a cocky heel, move him to Raw (as in officially part of Raw) and give him some real feuds to work with.

PS: The Legend Killer haircut is unfortunately gone already. He only kept it for the 12 Rounds filmings. He'll arrive at HIAC tomorrow with his usual super-short haircut. (according to his twitter)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I need to give Orton's 09 matches another watch. Although I'm willing to go as far as 2008 in my yearly journeys (or up to WM25), I might go through 09 just because Orton as top heel is exciting. But that means I'm also gonna have to put up with the horror of guest hosts and Hornswoggle beating Chavo so that's a bit of a hard decision to make. At the same time, some stuff on Smackdown concerning Jericho, Undertaker and so on makes me wanna go that far. For his matches that year, I personally like his series with Cena. SS 09 is the weakest of the bunch but that's down to overbooking. HIAC is one of the better matches in the PG era (for HIAC) and the Ironman match was awesome. I don't remember I Quit too well but the problem I can think of is SuperCena.
> 
> But you are onto something with this. Orton's 03 matches show that he's still very green at that point and outside of his first PPV match with HBK, the Survivor Series elimination match and Armageddon with RVD, I don't recall anything memorable involving him. In 04, he improved big time and I can only assume that's what he does in 05 and 06 when he goes to Smackdown. Then when he becomes a permanent main eventer in 07, his ring work is solid and carries on to 08 until his injury. So 09 might be his weakest year in-ring wise. But he was nothing special in 2010 either. Last year, however, his work started picking up big time and for the little amount of time he's been on TV or PPVs, he's still a solid wrestler.
> 
> ...


I'm honestly not too big a fan of the Orton/Cena series in '09, however I liked the '07 SS match and really liked the NWO '08 one. I'd say my favorite Orton matches from '09 would be the six man tag from Backlash and the match against Kofi from TLC. Those Triple and Batista singles matches didn't do too much for me either that year. I still love the Orton/DiBiase match from mid '09 though and there's a solid Orton/MVP one. And looking back, I agree that his 2010 was lackluster, especially when those awful Barrett and Miz matches came. The Sheamus ones weren't all too bad but everything he did that year seemed a bit pointless. The Edge feud, the short Swagger feud and the Sheamus feud didn't really have any meaning to them.

Agreed on hoping he'd turn heel. I'm not sure I'd want him completely insane again though.

But my god, that guy was on fire from late '03 and on. The Foley and Taker feuds really elevated him.

And damn.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck the Orton/Cena series in 09, they have legit some of the worst main event chemistry in the history of the E' . The hell in a cell match is HORRENDOUS, and they competed in the worst ironman match ever by a considerable margin. Let's not forget about the HORRENDOUSLY bad SS 09 match, god that match is SO bad. Is Orton the worst "big match" wrestler of the last decade or so ? Use the HHH and Cena matches for reference. When it comes to actually coming out LAST, he's preeetyyyyy bad despite a few exceptions.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Fuck the Orton/Cena series in 09, they have legit some of the worst main event chemistry in the history of the E' . The hell in a cell match is HORRENDOUS, and they competed in the worst ironman match ever by a considerable margin. Let's not forget about the HORRENDOUSLY bad SS 09 match, god that match is SO bad. Is Orton the worst "big match" wrestler of the last decade or so ? Use the HHH and Cena matches for reference. When it comes to actually coming out LAST, he's preeetyyyyy bad despite a few exceptions.


I need to see the Hart/HBK Ironman match but Orton/Cena having the "worst" Ironman match is not as bad as you make it sound. Considering that the other matches are HHH/The Rock, Lesnar/Angle and Benoit/HHH, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

And I disagree on them not having chemistry. If anything, I consider Cena/Orton's chemistry to be some of the best in the last decade. SS 07, NWO 08, HIAC 09, BR 09 were all great matches. But that's just my opinion. It sucks that WWE has removed almost everything from youtube. I could do with giving some of the 2009-2010 PPV matches a watch. Instead I can find them in their entirely mostly from myspace uploads and obscure sites.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hate Cena/Orton series and their chemistry for the most part. Love NWO 08 a fucking hell of a lot. Everything else can fuck off tbh. As far as their Iron Man goes, tied as the worst ever with HBK/Bret at **3/4.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I need to see the Hart/HBK Ironman match but Orton/Cena having the "worst" Ironman match is not as bad as you make it sound. Considering that the other matches are HHH/The Rock, Lesnar/Angle and Benoit/HHH, that's nothing to be ashamed of.
> 
> And I disagree on them not having chemistry. If anything, I consider Cena/Orton's chemistry to be some of the best in the last decade. SS 07, NWO 08, HIAC 09, BR 09 were all great matches. But that's just my opinion. It sucks that WWE has removed almost everything from youtube. I could do with giving some of the 2009-2010 PPV matches a watch. Instead I can find them in their entirely mostly from myspace uploads and obscure sites.


I would invest in the PPV matches of '09-'10 DVD, imo. It's worth the cheap price for Mysterio/Jericho from GAB, HBK/Taker from 26 and Edge/Cena from Backlash alone. But there's tons of other good stuff on there too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Fuck the Orton/Cena series in 09, they have legit some of the worst main event chemistry in the history of the E' . The hell in a cell match is HORRENDOUS, and they competed in the worst ironman match ever by a considerable margin. Let's not forget about the HORRENDOUSLY bad SS 09 match, god that match is SO bad. Is Orton the worst "big match" wrestler of the last decade or so ? Use the HHH and Cena matches for reference. When it comes to actually coming out LAST, he's preeetyyyyy bad despite a few exceptions.


Not really sure what exact definition of 'big match' is meant, but Orton is definitely better than Batista, HHH, Angle and Edge. I'd probably put him above Jericho too, and for the 2000s I'd have him over Michaels. Shawn's 2000s is not holding up for me at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Summerslam '07 - Great.
Unforgiven '07 - crap. only there to advance the storyline.
No Way Out '08 - Great.
Summerslam '09 - blah. those damn 5 false finishes.
Breaking Point - GREAT. my personal favorite.
Hell in a Cell '09 - decent. I only saw it once and that's where my memory is at.
Bragging Rights '09 - Fun & solid. RANDY TRIED TO BLOW JOHN-BOY UP

So yeah. Maybe HIAC might join in whenever I borrow that from my brother to give it another go around. I hated the DX/Legacy HIAC. So maybe I'll go in and think the same with Cena/Orton.

Oh and Orton does _not_ need another championship run. Have him feel fresh again and then we'll talk. So many people want to claim Cena is dull yet he's actually managed to keep the same character worth while. Orton can't say that ever since 2010 came along. Face Orton really can only last so long.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Tonight, they need to have Ryback basically stalking Punk around the cell with Punk running away being the chicken-shit heel for as long as he can. When Ryback finally gets hold of him, just have him destroy Punk for a good solid 10 to 15 minutes. Then, as victory looks certain have someone come out and screw Ryback over causing Punk to crawl away with the belt. Anything remotely resembling Taker/HBK from 1997 is fine with me.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

I was putting together a top 10 HIAC matches for a different website and decided to check out what other places thought, and came across this brilliance from a couple of years ago via our friends at bleacher:

1. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels
2. 6-Man
5. Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
6. Undertaker & Steve Austin vs. Mankind & Kane
10. DX vs. Big Show & McMahons

Taker/Orton, Taker/Lesnar & Batista/Triple H were all outside the top 10. :lmao

And just to put the icing on the cake, the first two comments:


> Triple H vs. HBK was a AWESOME match





> ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! great work Joe and can't argue with this list at all.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

admiremyclone said:


> Tonight, they need to have Ryback basically stalking Punk around the cell with Punk running away being the chicken-shit heel for as long as he can. When Ryback finally gets hold of him, just have him destroy Punk for a good solid 10 to 15 minutes. Then, as victory looks certain have someone come out and screw Ryback over causing Punk to crawl away with the belt. Anything remotely resembling Taker/HBK from 1997 is fine with me.


Oh god, i want Ryback to beat the shit out of Punk and then the DEBUT OF RYBACKS BROTHER. The brother had an eating disorder when they were kids which is why Ryback is mentally fucked and all he can say is "feed me more" the brother hits Ryback with Shell Shocked and puts Puink on top for the win. 

Book it WWE.(Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

haribo said:


> I was putting together a top 10 HIAC matches for a different website and decided to check out what other places thought, and came across this brilliance from a couple of years ago via our friends at bleacher:
> 
> 1. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels
> 2. 6-Man
> ...


Real embarrassment there is Undertaker vs Shawn being #3.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hailsabin said:


> Real embarrassment there is Undertaker vs Shawn being #3.


Actually its #5 on that list.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're right. Makes it even worse.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

lol @ Hunter & Michaels.

Most boring cell match i've ever seen.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

admiremyclone said:


> Tonight, they need to have Ryback basically stalking Punk around the cell with Punk running away being the chicken-shit heel for as long as he can. When Ryback finally gets hold of him, just have him destroy Punk for a good solid 10 to 15 minutes. Then, as victory looks certain have someone come out and screw Ryback over causing Punk to crawl away with the belt. Anything remotely resembling Taker/HBK from 1997 is fine with me.


They should have PAST RYBACK debut. He was supposed to be from the future anyway so we can turn this into some Looper shit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I would invest in the PPV matches of '09-'10 DVD, imo. It's worth the cheap price for Mysterio/Jericho from GAB, HBK/Taker from 26 and Edge/Cena from Backlash alone. But there's tons of other good stuff on there too.


I'm a cheap fuck, so don't expect me to buy anything.  And besides, where can I get these DVDs out here in Sweden outside of the obvious online option? Plus if I were to buy any of them, I'd go for the classic stuff first.



haribo said:


> I was putting together a top 10 HIAC matches for a different website and decided to check out what other places thought, and came across this brilliance from a couple of years ago via our friends at bleacher:
> 
> 1. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels
> 2. 6-Man
> ...


Credibility is automatically lost with what stands at #1. That's by far the worst cell match I've ever seen and the build-up to it was one of the worst ever.

I don't think anything has ever been more forced than the shitty HHH/HBK feud after Backlash 04. They cost each other title opportunities then they have them brawl all over the arena, trying their absolute hardest to make it OMGZSOFUCKINEPIC and it fails hard. "BAW GAWD THEY'RE FIGHTING THROUGH THE CROWD!!!!" and zero fucks given! Then their cell match got almost 50 minutes and ended up being the most boring piece of garbage I've had the misfortune of watching. You want an example of what The Rock/Austin would be like if the feud sucked? This shows it perfectly.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't think the HBK - HHH feud was as bad as people say it was. Yes some matches did take long but it wasn't a bad feud IMO. Though, I would agree that their 2002 feud was much better than the 2004 feud.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

I havnt seen HBK-HHH since it happened, I just remember it going on too long and not been bothered about rewatching it.

Thinking back to their singles matches, the Dec 03 raw and Summerslam matches are really good, but not really a fan of any others.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DO NOT DISS THE HBK-HHH SERIES 

That feud legit holds a special place in my heart, and I absolutely adore the matches that these two were able to put on together.

SS 02 : ******* (One of the greatest matches ever)
ARM 02 : **** 3/4* (FUN FUN FUN)
RAW 03 : ***** 1/4* (One of the best BASIC matches ever)
RR 04 : **** 3/4* (Again, FUN FUN FUN)
BB 04 : ****** (AWHH YEAHHHH)
TT 04 : **** 3/4* (Love DAT Psychology)

And that's only the well known singles! No bias for :hhh , I swear


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK/HHH


SS 02 : ****1/2
ARM 02 : *3/4
RAW 03 : ****1/4
RR 04 : ***1/2
BB 04 : ***
TT 04 : ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/HHH


SS 02 : ***1/4
ARM 02 : *
RAW 03 : ***3/4
RR 04 : ***
BB 04 : **3/4
TT 04 : Haven't seen since it aired
Raw 27/03/2006 : ***1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SS 02: ****1/2
Arm 02: **1/2
Raw 03: ****
RR 04: ***1/4
BB 04: *3/4 (This was a snooze-fest, I enjoyed Boss Man/Taker more than this!)
TT 04: ***1/4

Just got done with the last SD of 2004. Huge review is coming up in an hour or two!


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

SS 02 : ****
ARM 02 : *1/2
RAW 03 : ****1/4
RR 04 : **1/2
BB 04 : ***
TT 04 : ***1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH/Michaels Singles

Raw 5/13/96: Good.
Raw 12/25/97: Six stars.
Slam 02: I remember liking it but have no idea what I'd think of it now.
Armageddon 02: Rubbish.
Raw 12/29/03: Good.
Rumble 04: Rubbish.
Bad Blood 04: Rubbish.
TT04: Pretty good.
Tribute to the Troops 12/19/05: Rubbish.
Raw 3/27/06: Just watched this now when Cal mentioned it. It was pretty good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I feel like the HHH/HBK series is debated on a 3 or 4 week cycle lol. Seems like it's always getting discussed.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

SS 2002, OMG AWESOME!
3 stages of Hell, Lol what happened? 
Raw, GOOD FUCKIN MATCH
RR 2004, LOL U TRYING TO HARD
HIAC, LOL U TRYING TO HARD
TT 2004, Cool Psychology bro


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SS 02 : ****3/4
ARM 02 : *
RAW 03 : ****1/2
RR 04 : ***
BB 04 : **3/4 (My goodness, they took Benoit out of the main event for THIS?)
TT 04 : ***3/4
RAW 2006: ***1/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Shifting to another series, how about Punk vs. Cena (2011-2012)? 

I don't have exact ratings for all of them because some of the Raw matches are a blur:

Raw 1/17/2011 - *** 1/4
Raw 2/7/2011 - ?
Raw 2/14/2011 - ** 3/4 (good finish with the wrench)
Raw 6/13/2011 - ? (I only remember R-Truth attacking Cena at the end)
Money in the Bank 2011 - **** 1/2
SummerSlam 2011 - ****
Raw 8/22/2011 - *** 1/4
Raw 7/23/2012 - ** 
Night Of Champions 2012 - *** 3/4


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Why was their Armageddon 2002 matches bad? I haven't seen the 3 stages of hell match but I have read that it had some pretty good spots.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Triple H was injured going into the match so I think that had a bad impact on the pace, it was too long, and felt like too much being crammed into the match to try and make it an "epic," violent, war. They did have some good spots here and there. Most notable is Shawn's insane bump from a ladder in the ring to tables outside. That bump is always sick to me (i.e. Bubba Ray @ SS00 & WM17, Taker @ ONS08, Del Rio @ TLC10, etc).


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk V Cena series


MITB *****
Summerslam ****1/4
Raw ***3/4
Night of Champions ****1/4

Really wish we were getting Punk V Cena in HIAC tonight.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Punk/Cena from MITB and SS last year are both pretty damn close to ***** for me, but I'd give the edge to SS. It's just wrestled perfectly, plays off the last match wonderfully, and the drama down the stretch is insane without the rabid crowd (the crowd was still ace for it though). MITB gets better the more I watch it though. Both are easily my favourite matches since the turn of the decade. It depends what mood I'm in as to which one I prefer.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Clique said:


> ^
> Triple H was injured going into the match so I think that had a bad impact on the pace, it was too long, and felt like too much being crammed into the match to try and make it an "epic," violent, war. They did have some good spots here and there. Most notable is Shawn's insane bump from a ladder in the ring to tables outside. That bump is always sick to me (i.e. Bubba Ray @ SS00 & WM17, Taker @ ONS08, Del Rio @ TLC10, etc).


 Alright. I just watched the highlights and it seems like only the street fight was good. The ladder and cage matches looked bad though. The only good spot from the cage match was HBK's finisher on the table but other than that, the match wasn't very entertaining.

I hope to watch these matches soon just to get a good look at them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk vs Cena

Money in the Bank 2011 - *****
SummerSlam 2011 - **** 1/2
Raw 8/22/2011 - ****
Raw 7/23/2012 - *** 1/2
Night Of Champions 2012 - **** 1/4

Some of the best chemistry EVER IMO. I hope Ryback slips on a banana peel so we get Cena-Punk in the cell OMFG, these guys were made for each other and I truly believe they have better chemistry than any two we've seen over the past 10 years barring HHH-Foley and HBK-Taker (greatest chemistry ever  ) .

On a side note, who else is fucking PUMPED for this PPV tonight ? I can't wait to post my ratings tonight, honestly the 6 week build has worked in getting me hyped. I think Show-Sheamus is going to be awesome, and I want to see how exactly Punk is going to make his match with Ryback AWESOME like only Punk can. 

On a side side note (da fuck ?) , if Punk can get an amazing match out of Ryback tonight he can almost lay claim to having the greatest title reign (match quality wise) in WWE history. He's definitely top 5 now IMO, and would be even higher but NOOOOO... FUCK YOU BIG SHOW! If we didn't get that mediocre fucking Summerslam match (which should have just been fucking Cena-Punk) he would most definitely be top 2-3 by now. If Punk can come out of tonight as champion and get a **** 1/2* match out of Ryback ? top 3 for sure. PUNK CAN DO IT, IN PUNK I TRUST unk

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ONLY 3 MINUTES LEFT, hopefully Ryback goes down so instead of Hell in a Cell we get a 40 minute :hhh promo in the cell! EPIC.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*2004!*

*THE YEAR OF 2004​*
*Raw:*

*The Good:*
So far, 2004 is the best year for Raw I've watched in it's entirety (I am yet to watch the Attitude Era years, mind you). There's so much quality and almost every show was an entertaining watch. First, the year starts off on a pretty good note when Chris Benoit moves over from Smackdown after winning the Royal Rumble and that is the first step they take in making Raw the superior brand after getting destroyed by Smackdown for the majority of 2003. After an excellent Road to Wrestlemania, Benoit finally becomes the man by winning the World Heavyweight Championship and he gets a great five months reign with it under which, he keeps putting on great matches with a limited amount of opponents in HHH, Shawn Michaels, Kane and Randy Orton. Speaking of Orton, he starts off his decorated career with a lengthy Intercontinental Championship reign that started in the end of 2003 and carries on into the summer of 2004. During these 7 months, he improves his ring work and wrestles a variety of opponents in good matches, most notably Mick Foley in Backlash. On the midcard, Chris Jericho and Christian (along with Trish Stratus) have a nice and long running feud that is rooted in early 2003 at least. They participate in a few quality matches but then the feud comes to an abrupt stop when Christian gets injured in their steel cage match. They still finish it off when Christian returns with a couple more matches heading into the end of the year, though. Furthermore in the midcard, Shelton Benjamin gets drafted to Raw and impresses fans all year long with his excellent athletic abilities until his IC title victory at Taboo Tuesday. The women's division is also in one of its last years where it matters at all and a few good matches can be found there. Speaking of matches, there are so many to choose from in Raw 2004, many of them are overlooked gems. And after a bit of a slow summer, once Randy Orton turns face, the year comes to an awesome end following Survivor Series when the main event consists of more than just 2 or 3 men which directly leads into the excellent Elimination Chamber match in New Year's Revolution 2005. Amongst the main eventers is Edge, who transitions from a stale and irrelevant face to an excellent heel. Speaking of excellent heels, Muhammad Hassan makes his debut a couple of weeks before the end of the year and I'll expect good things from him while he was there as I head into 2005. Only thing that annoys me is the mindless sheep in the audience booing him for speaking the truth.

*The Bad:*
Despite all the good, Raw is not without its bad parts either. Thankfully, it's toned down compared to 2003 but we still have some garbage to put up with. Most notably, it's the "Diva Search" segments that take up so much air-time during the 5 or so long months it lasts. I skipped most of them while watching the shows but for a fair review, I have to include them and considering the amount of air-time they steal, it counts against the year big time. But as much of a problem is the annoying Eugene character. It was fun for one month or something but when you reach the summer, Eugene starts to take over the freaking main event to the point where Chris Benoit, the World Champion, has to play second fiddle to him. That's some serious bullshit right there. All of that, just to have HHH kill him at SummerSlam and at fucking last, put him in the midcard where he should be at most. When has a comedy character been the focus of the show to this extent? If anybody knows any other example, let me know. Oh and I shouldn't forget the boring HHH/Shawn Michaels feud that built-up until Bad Blood but I've already explained why I can't stand it and it's only for a few weeks it lasts, so no biggie. But I am back to Chris Benoit and his title reign here. Why in the world did he only get four different opponents to feud with? I can't understand this for the life of me. For instance, when Chris Jericho won that silly little chairs game they had in the 5th July episode in Winnipeg, why in the hell didn't he get to battle for the World Title with Benoit instead of a IC title match even though he cut a promo weeks before it saying that he wants a World Title match? Complete nonsensical decision here.

*Rating:* ****

*TV matches worth watching:* Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (16 Feb, 3 May), Benoit vs Kane (28 June), Benoit vs Randy Orton (15 Aug), Benoit vs HHH (26 July), Benoit vs HHH vs Edge (29 Nov), Benoit vs Edge (22 Nov), Randy Orton vs Edge (13 Dec), Orton vs Chris Jericho (5 July), Jericho vs Christian (10 May), HHH vs Shelton Benjamin (29 March), HHH vs Eddie Guerrero (22 March)

*Smackdown:*

*The Good:*
It's like Smackdown and Raw switched places when it comes to quality from 2003 into 2004. The brand already suffers when Benoit is traded to Raw but things only get worse by March during the draft show. But this is for the good parts and not the bad. Unfortunately, there's not much I can think of. Eddie Guerrero does all he can to carry the deserted show when he's the WWE Champion, Bradshaw makes his transition into the excellent JBL character and he does a great job as top heel and champion for half of the year, John Cena starts moving up on the ranks and he's pretty much the most over face alongside Eddie and The Undertaker whenever he's there. Otherwise, Rey Mysterio is always a workhorse, both on TV and PPV and I guess you can say that the show starts getting better towards the end. I don't know how, though. I just enjoyed it more compared to the terrible few months when "Mr. Angle" was GM. And similar to Raw's "Diva Search", there's the "Tough Enough" competition that takes place towards the end of Smackdown. It takes up a lot of TV time too but at least, this is interesting and features some athleticism which is what wrestling is about unlike the "Diva Search" that was strictly about looks and nothing else. Oh and Carlito debuts towards the end of the year which is another plus, I guess. Lastly, I can't forget Heidenreich as he's one of the most unintentionally hilarious "psycho heels" I have come across so far. 

*The Bad:*
Where do I start? The brand suffers big time in terms of star power because Brock Lesnar, the top heel, walks out after Wrestlemania and they don't have much star power at all. Undertaker appears every now and then but this is far from one of his better years. Then there are a few flops. Ultimo Dragon debuted in 2003 and was released in 2004 without getting much to do, Mordecai was around for one month before disappearing and there's probably more flopped characters that debuted and went at the speed of light so I'm probably forgetting somebody but you get the point. The midcard is pretty bland and uninteresting. There's some talented guys like Cena, René Duprée and Rob Van Dam around there but for the most part, their matches are uninteresting so who cares? And there's the cruiserweight division which goes through lots of bullshit in the spring when Tajiri is traded to Raw and Jacqueline wins it only to lose it a week later in a "hand tied behind back" match against Chavo. Then for the summer, Undertaker is in a program with Paul Bearer, Paul Heyman and the Dudleyz but the whole thing is so confusing and uninteresting, it's just hard to care. I don't even know if I can call most of the stuff in this year "bad" as much as it is "irrelevant". So yeah, there's not much in this year to pick up on.

*Rating:* **

*TV matches worth watching:* John Cena vs Undertaker (24 June), JBL vs Eddie Guerrero (15 July)

*Pay Per Views:*

This was not a bad year for PPVs at all. It depends, though. If we look at the Smackdown exclusive PPVs, they were dreadful from top to bottom. They all had one or two quality matches but otherwise, the rest of them featured nothing but filler and terrible matches. Raw, on the other hand, had a pretty good year with brand exclusive PPVs. Almost every single one of them had at least one or two GREAT matches and the undercard stuff were more okay than terrible. Although some terrible stuff can still be found, most notably Tomko vs Richards at Unforgiven. Now the best part of the PPVs are by far the big four. They delivered with almost every one of them. Royal Rumble was a decent start and despite a shit undercard, the Rumble match alone is worth it. Wrestlemania XX had lots of filler but when it was good, it was great! SummerSlam had an excellent main event as well as some decent stuff for the rest of the card and nothing too terrible. Lastly, Survivor Series might be the best of them all with only one dud.

*PPV Ranking: (Best matches)*
1. Survivor Series (Team Orton/Team HHH, Undertaker/Heidenreich, Shelton Benjamin/Christian)
2. Wrestlemania XX (HHH/Shawn Michaels/Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero/Kurt Angle)
3. Backlash (Chris Benoit/Shawn Michaels/HHH, Randy Orton/Mick Foley)
4. SummerSlam (Chris Benoit/Randy Orton, JBL/Undertaker, HHH/Eugene)
5. Royal Rumble (Royal Rumble match, Shawn Michaels/HHH)
6. Vengeance (Chris Benoit/HHH, Randy Orton/Edge)
7. Bad Blood (Chris Benoit/Kane, Randy Orton/Shelton Benjamin)
8. No Way Out (Brock Lesnar/Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle/John Cena/Big Show)
9. Unforgiven (Randy Orton/HHH, Chris Jericho/Christian)
10. Taboo Tuesday (HHH/Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton/Ric Flair)
11. Judgment Day (Eddie Guerrero/JBL)
12. Armageddon (JBL/Booker T/Undertaker/Eddie Guerrero)
13. No Mercy (JBL/Undertaker)
14. The Great American Bash (Eddie Guerrero/JBL, Rey Mysterio/Chavo Guerrero)

*FINAL RATING: ***1/2*​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD DAMN C2D That was fucking AWESOME! MAD Props bro.


DAT DEL RIO-ORTON MATCH is **** 1/2* on first watch, fucking AMAZING finish we got there with some great psychology on the left shoulder. What an opener, wouldn't be surprised if that was MOTN.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> GOD DAMN C2D That was fucking AWESOME! MAD Props bro.
> 
> 
> DAT DEL RIO-ORTON MATCH is **** 1/2* on first watch, fucking AMAZING finish we got there with some great psychology on the left shoulder. What an opener, wouldn't be surprised if that was MOTN.


Thanks man, took me an hour to write.

And sucks that I missed the Del Rio/Orton match. It's the only one I was looking forward to and I only managed to stream the finish (which looked awesome!). Now my stream is already closed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Update numero deux , Team Hell No vs Team Rhodes Scholars was a great tag team match for sure. Really like the exposure of the tag team division that apparently Hunter has been pushing for for quite some time now. Kane is fucking hilarious trying to will Bryan on, Bryan is always awesome, and the ending was simple but kept the credibility for team Rhodes Scholars for a potential 3 way match at Survivor Series. I hope the tag division gets the main event at TLC. NO JOKE. Great match. *****

Edit : Oh Fuck Miz-Kofi is next


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's a great review Choke2Death. One more positive for 2004 SD! was the fact Billy Kidman and Paul London won the tag team titles. I liked how the feud started with Dudley Boys losing on Velocity via DQ then losing the titles on SD! It's a shame that Kidman's botched SSP ended their title reign (and possibly his character) though. The crusierweight division could have been better. Why was Tajiri drafted to RAW and jobbed to the COACH of all people? The only positive that year (for the Crusierweight division) was Funaki winning the title. 

By the way, what year did you like the most; SD 2004 or RAW 2003?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Good work, C2D. (Y)

I've liked HIAC so far.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> By the way, what year did you like the most; SD 2004 or RAW 2003?


That's a very tough choice, for the wrong reasons. On Raw, I enjoyed Randy Orton's transition into the Legend Killer, Kane's unmasking as well as The Rock whenever he was there. But HHH's reign of terror and his feuds with the WCW gang were terrible. I'm also not very fond of Goldberg, so he didn't really help things.

On the other hand, on Smackdown, I enjoyed JBL's character and his title reign, Eddie Guerrero was a great champion but didn't have much to work with and John Cena is slowly climbing the ranks into a top guy. But then the shows are just very boring and I'm more looking forward to see them end than actually watch them, so it's a tough choice.

I think I'll go with Raw 2003 since the roster was better and the enjoyable parts are more memorable. And the bad stuff were laughable, such as anything involving Scott Steiner. Plus the lame PG restrictions were not there to bleep cuss words and censor blood like with SD in 2004.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Show and Seamus just killed it there. Awesome match imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed, Show just SHOWED (hehehe) that he's one of the most underrated there has ever been. Masterful pace and wonderful nearfalls make for the match of the night up to this point. **** 3/4* at first glance with the potential to move up on the rewatch. Could potentially slither into my top 10 WWE matches of the year if it moves up. Booking is wide open from here on out, I fucking LOVE it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So much hate being piled on that thing just because it's Seamus and Show. WER R MY INDY STARZ HURR DURR 8*D


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Match was psychology and storytelling 101. The set up was brilliant and the climax where these two broke out all the finishers was fantastic and made perfect sense. It feels as if Show is completely credible again (atleast in my mind) and could potentially lead to a Show-Ryback match where Ryback finally gets his title.

PS: If I just jinxed Punk you can bitch about it to me later. God I hope we get a BROCKTAGON or a TRIPS appearance


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TRIPS? BROCKTAGON? :mark:

Sadly, we're up shit creek without a paddle with regards to that lol. This crowd doesn't deserve to get either of them tbh. They've been shit all night. I had a feeling Show/Seamus was going to surprise us. Almost made a post about it in here before the show earlier tonight. I look forward to watching it back again tomorrow. Punk/Ryback intrigues me. How in the fuck are they going to book this thing lol?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Show/Sheamus were the first time in awhile when I was shocked by a finish. I would have bet my house that it was over after that brogue kick, and that W.M.D kick out surprised many too. See what happens when a Sheamus match doesn't end with a BROGUEKICKOUTTANOWHERE? It's fucking great. *** 3/4 as KOK said


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's hard to believe that the last HIAC match we saw was this...



















I almost feel sorry for them lol. 

PS - Ryback's red gear is pretty sick.

EDIT - Punk/Ryback was bullshit as expected lol. The 2 tag matches were fun along with Orton/ADR and Show/Seamus is MOTN by quite a distance imo. Pretty shitty PPV though.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Orton/Del Rio *** 1/4
Rhodes Scholars vs Team Hell No: ** 1/2
Kofi vs Miz: *** 1/2
Cesaro vs Gabriel: **
Rey/Cara vs PTP: ***
Show vs Sheamus: *** 3/4
Divas Triple Threat: *
Punk vs Ryback **

Overall: ***

Was that the worst HIAC ever? I remember Nash/:hhh being awful too


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

worst hell in a cell is a hyperbole

you could have a match where two guys shit in the ring for half an hour and it would still only be the 2nd worst

because atleast that didnt end with a guy being hung


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Redead said:


> worst hell in a cell is a hyperbole
> 
> you could have a match where two guys shit in the ring for half an hour and it would still only be the 2nd worst
> 
> because atleast that didnt end with a guy being hung


That match was so bad I actually forgot about it :lmao

You're right, this was the 2nd worst HIAC ever then.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Show/Sheamus was totally MOTN if anyone remembers the Show/Taker matches from '08 it was just two big mean beating the shit out of each other. Sure it was a little slow when show was on offense at times but that final stretch HOLY SHIT. ***3/4 - **** I can't wait the watch this again.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hell In A Cell 2012 was very good. Match of the night has to be Big Show and Sheamus. I'm still surprised that Big Show kicked out of the brogue kick but it was a good decision to do that because a giant shouldn't lose by just one kick, it should take two brogue kicks to beat him. The main event was poor but I felt the booking was the right decision. It still makes Ryback look strong because of that screwjob and I guess that referee was always going to stop officiating. Also loved the aftermath of the match. This match reminded of the Taker - Big Bossman HIAC; poor match quality but good post-match ending. It was also great to see Team Hell No retaining their belts because I feel it's way too early to split them up. 

Overall, I would give this a 7/10.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Show/Fella ****

Fucking awesome match and finish.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HIAC on first watch:

Orton/ADR- ***1/4
Hell No/Rhode Scholars- ***
Kofi/Miz and Cesaro/Gabriel and Mysterio-Cara/PTP- Wasn't paying attention to any of these... just couldn't give a fuck to watch em.
Show/Sheamus- ***1/2
Punk/Ryback- **1/4

Punk/Ryback was what it was made out to be in the build up, but still had no business being in the cell. Ending kept Ryback looking strong, while Punk continues looking like a joke of a champion... which doesn't sit well with me for the last two months after spending 9 months as a fighting champion and looking legit. But the important thing at the end of the day is they keep Punk's reign going, and Ryback remains extremely strong and while he may not technically be undefeated, that loss was hardly a defeat. Punk played the role of chicken-shit heel to perfection and Ryback played his monster role to perfection, and ultimately I felt the match they had was the best they could do with what they were obviously given.

Just couldn't care to pay attention for half the PPV. Orton/Del Rio was a very good opener, the tag title match was good but ending pissed me off a bit. And Show/Sheamus to my surprise delivered a great match and MOTN. It was still very boring in a lot of spots, but once they went into finisher mode, match became really fun to watch. Was very shocker Show kicked out of the Brogue kick, and even more so that he won. Glad to see Sheamus' reign of terror is over.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Ether said:


> That match was so bad I actually forgot about it :lmao
> 
> You're right, this was the 2nd worst HIAC ever then.


Kane/Undertaker was the second worst Hell in a Cell ever by a freaking mile.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I wasn't watching wrestling during that time so I can't comment, was it really that bad?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Ryback is definitely up there with some of the worst Cell matches. I'd say it's better than Taker/Kane, Taker/Bossman, and maybe Nash/HHH, but it certainly wasn't a good cell match.

I do think the match is better than a lot of people will make it out to be though for the reasons in my post, but it just felt wrong being in HIAC besides the fact it kept Punk locked in and he could use all the weapons and cheap shots he needed.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Ether said:


> I wasn't watching wrestling during that time so I can't comment, was it really that bad?


Yes, it really was THAT bad.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shit match is shit. Punk played the scared heel fine and Ryback played the dominating monster fine but it was still shit and had no business taking place inside HIAC. None at all. The fact that they climbed it afterwards doesn't change that. Ryback is pretty beastly though. It's kind of fun to watch him fuck shit up but not enough to save the match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

PPV:

-Orton v Del Rio: Solid stuff. The arm work wasn't terribly interesting but it was all right. Awkward top rope stuff was weird.
-Bryan/Kane v Rhodes/Sandow: The 'no' thing has jumped the shark. Boring as shit tag match. Rhodes' outfit is embarrassing.
-Kingston v Miz: Not particularly good, not particularly bad. I really liked Kofi jumping over the steps and the Miz taking off Kofi's boot and pads and stuff.
-Claudio/Gabriel: I like me some Claudio rough-housing but this didn't feel the same. Gabriel does nothing for me.
-Rey/Cara v NXT guys: Another boring as shit tag match.
-Sheamus v Show: Yeah, this was good shit. Show looked like such a killer and seeing Sheamus work from underneath against a bigger guy was refreshing and really neat. Took them a while to get to the Kick v Punch stuff but when they did they hit home and worked it really smart. The crowd got more and more interested as time went on and the match got better and better. Only real flaw is the shitty looking DDT reversal which they shouldn't have even tried. I can't say "I'd watch this again" about that many WWE matches today but this would one of them. 
-Diva 3-Way: Don't make me relive this. 
-HIAC: Total bore. Ryback is terrible.

One match show. Sheamus/Show was an island amongst a sea of nothingness.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Hell in a cell 2012
First take

Orton vs del rio *** 1/2
Team friendship vs rhode scholars ** 3/4
Kofi vs the miz *** 1/4
Cesaro vs Gabriel **
Prime time players vs rey cara ***
Sheamus vs show *** 3/4
Divas don't care
Punk vs ryback ** 1/2

Decent show will review again tomorrow in depth


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Early HIAC Ratingz~!

Orton/Del Rio: ***
Hell No/Rhodes Scholars: **1/2
Kingston/Miz: **1/2
Cesaro/Gabriel: **
PTP/Mysterio & Cara: **
Fella/Show: **** (could go higher, fucking awesome)
Divas: * (you could hear a pin drop during this)
Punk/Ryback: ** (using the cell AFTER the match?)

Show/Fella saved this, although the crowd were the worst WWE have had in a very long time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Show ruled? Nice. Glad it lived up to the interest that I had in it. Really looking forward to checking it out.

The rest...well I'll just have to see how I feel whenever I watch. I wished I could d/l this atm, but being a shoddy XWT member got me removed. At least this wasn't a huge PPV to get spoiled on.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i love the bro kick

as for the cell match, it suffered from trying to be michaels vs taker, but not trying hard enough, neither guy being as talented, ending too quickly, and being too stupid

coulda been a good match if done right.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell 2012 ; First Take*

Orton vs Del Rio : **** 1/4*

Good solid opener we had on our hands here. On replay the ending RKO didn't actually look all that impressive so fuck that noise. Del Rio seems to be the king of matches that are good/okay but not classics at all. Where he goes from here is a sight to behold as they already gave him two world titles and a Royal Rumble win. He needs a PPV win, like NOW. Great psychology here for sure as Orton is also a booking disaster waiting to happen.

Team HELL NO vs Team Rhodes Scholars : *****

Another good contest, love the emphasis that Hunter is supposedly imposing on the tag division. The ending makes sense for a go home match at Survivor Series or perhaps a 4 way/3 way elimination match involving two other teams. Bryan steals the show once again, showing why he's a top 3 performer in the world right now for sure. Entertainment all the way from these two, great.

Kofi Kingston vs The Miz :*****

NO expectations going into this, so naturally this is a pleasant surprise for me. Two things I loved about the match and one thing I hated should wrap up my thoughts on this match as a whole ; I loved the opening sequence as it was fast, made sense to the story, and AWSUM. I also loved the knee work and the sliding off of the pad by Miz (psychology in a Miz match LOLWUT?). What I hated was that ending sequence, fuck that shit. All of this great limb work and you basically ignore it by having Kofi win with a move like that... FUCK YOU.

Cesaro vs Gabriel : *** 1/2*

Really just a showcase for Gabriel to fly around and for Cesaro to show off his impressive moveset. With some decent time, these two could easily pull off a ***+ performance but to condense a guy like Cesaro to such a miniscule amount of time is ridiculous. Cesaro probably has the best looking moveset in the company though, and looks like a future star for sure. I already consider him better than BORRETT and a ton of other heels, hope his stock rises within the company.

PTP vs Reycara : *** 1/4*

I literally remember NOTHING about this match already. How sad. All I remember is it being not that entertaining, nobody caring, and Cara's botch. WHY IS REY TEAMING WITH SIN CARA ? Rey should have been the one taking on Cesaro, now THAT has some potential right there. These two teams will probably be involved in an elimination match somehow at the next PPV. Not a bad match at all, just....Nobody cared.

Show vs Fella : **** 3/4*

FUCK YEAH. Heavyweight slugfest in this mo' fo' , Sheamus and Show just showed you what a heavyweight formula is supposed to look like. What is up with Big Show and these amazing October performances (let's just look at his track record since 2008 ; vs Undertaker, vs Batista/Rey, vs Henry, vs Sheamus, all *** 1/2+) ..... SERIOUSLY. These two just worked wonders at a great pace for a long fucking time. The near falls were some of the most convincing that I have ever seen, as there were 3 instances where I truly believed the match was over. I'm gonna stop gushing over this great match for now and watch it later, because I REALLY think it's going to **** and into my top 10-15 on the year.

Divas Three Way : N/A (Don't Care)

I actually didn't watch this. Went and made myself a protein shake instead with a pro-bar on the side. That's probably more interesting than this was.

Punk vs Ryback : *****

Liked this more than probably everybody. Thought it ran WAYYY too short than what it should have, and I also think that Ryback isn't ready to be put in this spot yet (mainly because he sucks in the ring). Punk just went out there and made magic happen once again, getting a pretty good match out of Ryback given the circumstances he was placed under. Punk probably hit his best looking elbow EVER tonight as well, as his offense looked better than it ever has. The ending was MEH and I think we could have used another 5 minutes for some better storytelling/false finishes, but I thought this was a good main event (and that Punk has done it AGAIN, this is his Cena/Khali moment IMO).

Overall:

This was a good show for sure. All of the major matches were ***+ , and we got the AWESOME Show-Sheamus match. That's all I'm going to say for now as I'm going to watch it again sometime later. On a first glance, I enjoyed this more than NOC (which had that terrible 4 way opener bah gawd), but I'll know more at a second glance for sure. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I'm excited as to where booking goes from here.

*7/10*

Random note : My best friend is a big time wrestling fan (he even gets on here from time to time, or he used to lol), and I told him about how in 3 weeks we're gonna go down to the theatre and watch Survivor Series with a few hundred people , and how Ryback hopefully won't be champion... His text back said this : "Ryback...His name is RYBACK... It's like they took Big Vito and gave him Rhyno's gimmick, the dude couldn't even get to *** with Punk and that's saying ALOT, if this guy is the future then count me out of wrestling". I thought it was hilarious.

NO :hhh MAKEZ ME UPZET!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IF PUNK CAN'T CARRY YOU TO A *** MATCH THEN YOU SUCK.

Ryback has worked nothing but squash matches all year. A good rating like that would actually be a strong improvement to the norm...


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I still think that match had potential. they were holding back. both men can do SO much more.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

RyBerg doesn't belong in the main event yet. God, when will WWE learn the great virtue of patience. It's not like after Austin stopped being the Ringmaster he was wrestling in the main event 6months later (Granted comparing Ryback to Austin is in-fucking-sane,but WWE's trying to make him their next guy). Also this ME solidified the need to stop these gimmick PPVs. They've basically killed all the prestige Taker/HHH put into the Cell earlier this year with that debacle. Bad story and just overall decent (at BEST) match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Redead said:


> I still think that match had potential. they were holding back. both men can do SO much more.


Mind boggling as to why they would hold back on PPV. 

btw, how long did it go - 10 minutes or so?


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Overall, I will remember Ryback/Punk more for the aftermath, instead of the actual match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

They went 11 minutes in a pretty average Hell In A Cell match. I don't really want to see a rematch between these two either. Maybe they do a big Survivor Series tag in three weeks where Punk takes the pin to Ryback or Cena, Punk finishes up with Cena at TLC, and whoever wins that can turn to The Rock for the Rumble in January.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The HIAC main event between Ryback/Punk suffered from so much. The match felt so short, it just kinda ended. Ryback's flaws as a worker really showed tonight, the lack of originality in his offense. Sure he plays an unstoppable monster but I felt no drama at all in the match. It's like they tried to force HBK/Taker Bad Blood into a short time. Punk tried his best to try to get a decent match out of Ryback but there wasn't much there for me to get excited about or want to watch again. Punk's an incredible scared to death heel though, the fear in punk's eyes was awesome. The finish didn't bother me as much as it would some people because the finish was a product of horrendous booking leading up to the match. It's pretty much the only way they could book it keeping punk champ and ryback looking unstoppable, without using a lesnar appearance. **1/2

Now let's get to the MOTN which was Sheamus/Big Show, A great big man brawl is something that is always fun to watch especially when it's implemented well and you have 2 unstoppable forces and you just build the drama in the match. Started off kinda slow, but the finishing stretch had me on the edge of my seat. The brogue kick false finish was amazing. The finish was really creative as well, really made the KO punch look incredibly dangerous and could be hit at any point in the match. The only truly bad part of the match was that horrendous ddt spot, that was ugly. ***3/4 borderline ****

I still have my reservations of Big Show being a world champ in 2012

One final note, can we please get rid of this Gimmick PPV and only have a HIAC match if it's the climax or end all match in a long and hard fought feud. I can't take this you are in a HIAC match with a person you just started feuding with a few weeks ago.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I missed a bit of Sheamus/Show, and I just heard Sheamus did the White Noise on Big Show. I cant believe that if its true. Props to Sheamus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> They went 11 minutes in a pretty average Hell In A Cell match. I don't really want to see a rematch between these two either. Maybe they do a big Survivor Series tag in three weeks where Punk takes the pin to Ryback or Cena, Punk finishes up with Cena at TLC, and whoever wins that can turn to The Rock for the Rumble in January.


11 minutes. Not bad. Could have been worse.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I would have LOL if they had a main event shorter than 10 minutes! There were no botches in the match and Ryback looked dominant in the match and the action that transpired, but I'm not interested in putting money down to see him destroy fools at the top of the card. Maybe with more time. Creative has to expand on his character (or they should) now that he has his first loss, albeit controversial.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Judgment Day 2007 was only 8 minutes, haha.

Yeah, they have room to work with on Ryback considering the way things went down. One blemish by the WWE Champion isn't gonna change anything. He's in the thick of the main event scene now. Lets see him work some more legit bouts to complete him.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was a little surprised when I heard it only went 11 minutes. Felt around 20.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> Show/Sheamus was totally MOTN if anyone remembers the Show/Taker matches from '08 it was just two big mean beating the shit out of each other. Sure it was a little slow when show was on offense at times but that final stretch HOLY SHIT. ***3/4 - **** I can't wait the watch this again.


Yeah, exactly. I was tired and distracted and not very into the match at all; I was gonna only listen in to Show/Sheam but then my box turned itself off and I was going to turn it on and not watch again, but that finishing stretch...


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Sheamus/Big Show **** - Great match,MOTN.
Ryback/Punk *** - Nothing great here but it was a fun match.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*WWE Hell in a Cell 2012 Review

Quick Thoughts: I enjoyed this show more than others; the show flowed well and most of the matches didn't drag. Card was consistent and you got a fantastic title match in Show/Sheamus.*

Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio- ***1/2
Team Hell No vs. Team Rhodes Scholars- **1/4
Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz- ***
Antonio Cesaro vs. Justin Gabriel- **
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Sin Cara vs. Prime Time Players- **
Sheamus vs. Big Show- ****
Eve vs. Layla vs. Kaitlyn- **3/4
CM Punk vs. Ryback- ***


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton/Del Rio - ***1/2
Kane/Bryan vs Rhodes Scholars - **3/4
Kofi/Miz - ***
Cesaro/Gabriel - *** (really liked this)

Good start to the show, didn't see the rest. Can't say I'm pleased with how Punk/Ryback sounds but I wasn't expecting much from THE RYBACK.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

*HELL IN A CELL 2012*​
_Non-match factors_

The crowd was DEAD. However for many of the matches I do not blame them. I thought they would at least come alive for the main event and WHC match though. The crowd took quite a bit away from this PPV

Commentary was great tonight, JBL and JR bringing it as always.

*Randy Orton VS Alberto Del Rio- ***1/4*

Good opening match. It gave a solid start to the PPV. Del Rio seems to be teetering on good/decent matches these days. Orton still puts on great matches. Neither of these men have exhibited excellent or MOTYCs yet. However this went as expected. The random botch where Del Rio jumped from the ropes doing nothing in the process really killed momentum and flow though. The ending was nice, on the replay it still looked nice.

*Team Hell No! VS Rhodes Scholars- ***1/4*

Good opener followed by a good seconder. I really enjoyed this as a fun match and the end was good. Both teams looked strong and it creates a hook for a rematch at Survivor Series.

*Kofi Kingston VS The Miz- ****

Not that great a match. I would easily define this match off the bat as being, well, average. Miz showed a calculated side with the pad/gear spot. The starting sequences with speed were the best of this match though. Watchable.

*Antonio Cesaro VS Justin Gabriel -***

Poor to sum up. Very bad flow and absolutely dead commentary and crowd(outside of the Swiss-Death uppercut spot). Very short, which is both good and bad in this case. Cesaro still doesn't click with me, so this rating is probably different to other peoples.

*Prime Time Players VS Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio- **3/4*

The best part of this was the crowd dancing during PTP entrance. It was an alright match with nothing memorable outside of Sin Cara's spot...which he botched. 

*Big Show VS Sheamus- *****

Match of the night by a distance. This is where Big Show actually shows(no pun intended here) his worth. When mixed with another _smaller_ brawler, like Sheamus(who I believe is bashed far too much on his ringwork) and he works well. The build for this match was all based on the finishers. Both men kicked out of each others(holy shit at Big Show kicking out of the Brogue Kick, *Rock316AE* and I said weeks back it would be a moment when someone did kick out and it was!). Equally crazy to see Sheamus kick-out of the WMD. The end was great and shocking winner.

*Layla VS Eve Torres VS Kaitlyn- N/A*

No rating. Did not care for or watch this.

*CM Punk VS RyBack- ****

This match was fun to watch. Both men had their roles psychologically down to a T. Punk who is much smaller than RyBack would not believably take him head on. Especially as a heel. His "scouting" and eventual opportune strikes/assaults worked well and gave an old-school heel feel to Punk. RyBack just played the destructor in this and totally tried to power through the match. I found the actual flow and rythm of the match to be rather offsetting though. It also had NO, and I mean NO need to be in the Cell(outside of the random ending spot). The actual ending was OK but a bit goofy.

*OVERALL RATING: 6/10*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone else had a 'delayed' order from Silvervision, my order was sent out Thursday, nothing here yet.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like I was right when I said Orton/Del Rio and ShowMoose would be the show-stealers of the night!

Gonna have to try find a real youtube video for them as I don't care for the rest.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Anyone else had a 'delayed' order from Silvervision, my order was sent out Thursday, nothing here yet.


With them shutting things down with WWE and clearing their stock I'd probably expect a few delays at the moment.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

‎Vince Russo makes his return to WWE TV during an upcoming DVD release. Vince was recently interviewed for the "nWo: The Revolution" blu-ray and DVD. This will be interesting. WWE also interviewed Lex Luger for the feature.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

holt_hogan said:


> With them shutting things down with WWE and clearing their stock I'd probably expect a few delays at the moment.


Yeah, not being impatient lol just as ive never had an order take more than a day or two to arrive like, hopefully it'll be here this week.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I made an order on Thursday and got it Friday .


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

This was posted last week on Inside The Ropes Facebook page, they're based in the UK and offer things like full annual sets of Monday Night Raw episodes etc. You have to contact them for most pricing but this is an indication from an email I got back from them:

1993 - 2003 Full Monday Night Raw episodes

1 single set is £24 (In Sleeves) or £39.99 Fully Cased bud 
2 Sets are £45 (In Sleeves) or £75 Fully Cased
3 Sets are £60 (In Sleeves) or £100 Fully Cased
5 Sets would be £100 (Sleeves) or £150 Cased

http://wrestlinglistings.yolasite.com/wwe.php


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Do they say how many discs each year is? Because from Feb 97 onwards Raw went to 2 hours and the good sets will have 1 2 hour show per disc, making them around 52 discs per year, so either they are cheap as hell... or putting multiple episodes onto one disc and losing quality. Not everyone will mind of course, but for those looking for the best quality versions you want to stick to 1 2 hour show per disc.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Do they say how many discs each year is? Because from Feb 97 onwards Raw went to 2 hours and the good sets will have 1 2 hour show per disc, making them around 52 discs per year, so either they are cheap as hell... or putting multiple episodes onto one disc and losing quality. Not everyone will mind of course, but for those looking for the best quality versions you want to stick to 1 2 hour show per disc.


I've sent them an email Cal and will post the reply when it arrives.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

*CM Punk vs Ryback: Hell in a Cell*

This may not have been the best match of the ppv, but it was my favorite of the night. CM Punk played the chicken heel role just perfect. There is no way in hell he can stand up to someone like Ryback without cheating, and that is exactly what he did. Using Heyman as a distraction, and using the fire extinguisher to blind Ryback was great. No time wasted by Punk when he was on the offense. 

Ryback on the other hand did the monster role just perfect. He really did look unstopable. No selling the kendo shots, and no selling that suicide dive that Punk did. He beat the shit out of Punk, and I really thought he had the match won, and then boom. Punk retains with a low blow from the referee and a quick roleup. 

The match itself is pretty good actually. Ryback's best match ever, and Punk really did carry him very nicely. Fast paced action with a lot of weapons. The cell was used a bit, the steel chair, the fire extinguisher, the kendo stick and the spear through the steel steps was great too.

Anyways, what makes the match even better to me is the epic aftermath. Ryback jsut destroys Punk and the referee. Throw Punk head first in the cell, and then just kills the referee. Then he kills the referee when he picks him up over his head and throws him out of the ring into the cell Great moment to see, and it looked very painful. 

Thats not the end of it though. Punk tries to escape by climbing the cell, and I have to admit, just seeing these guys climb the cell brought back a lot of good memories of old Hell in a cell matches. Anyways, on top Ryback picks up Punk and slams him down with the Shell Shocked on the roof. The ppv ends with Ryback standing tall on top of the cell with the fans chanting FEED ME MORE.

Overall, I thought both guys came out looking great in this match. Ryback looks like an even bigger monster with the way he just completly destroyed Punk and the referee in the match, and after the match. Credibility was not lost with this match, but it was gained for him. Punk on the other hand ended Ryback's undefeated streak, is still the WWE champion, and will probably be going into a feud with the Rock soon. 



















*My star rating: ****


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Watched Show/Sheamus and Punk/Ryback again on the replay last night (didn't feel like writing up a review for them until now). Bumped up both of them.

Show/Sheamus- ***3/4
MOTN by a considerable distance and an excellent big man match. Didn't enjoy it as much first around, but the second time I appreciated the storytelling of the match a bit more. It was still coma-inducing for much of the first half, but the ending was even more awesome, starting with White Noise on Show from Sheamus (which was fucking impressive) to Sheamus kicking out of WMD, to Show kicking out of the brogue kick, and finally Sheamus going for the brogue kick but Show hitting the WMD out of nowhere to win the match. It had a great big fight feel to it and a very enjoyable match. I'd say it's Show's best match in a long time... at least since his match against Taker at CS 2008.

Punk/Ryback- ***
Bumped this up a lot, and honestly it's been getting slugged on despite fantastic character portrayals, storytelling and psychology. Punk was a super chickenshit heel in this who sold Ryback's dominance to perfection. And Ryback went out there and absolutely manhandled Punk, only adding to the fear and urgency Punk displayed throughout the match. Punk's first bit of offense was the perfect way to go about it. Punk just moving quickly to get shit done on Ryback when he could was perfect, and Ryback just absorbing those keno-stick shots followed by dishing out another beating on Punk was perfect. The ending was probably the best way to end the match as far as screwjob ending goes. It doesn't book them into a corner with a potential Ryback/Lesnar match, and it keeps Ryback looking unstoppable and that he still can't be beat, even if now he technically has a loss on his record. My favorite spot of the match, while I can't remember if it was the beginning of the match or after, was when Punk getting up near the door of the cell, and Ryback is standing dominantly over him from behind. That just looked awesome. Also Ryback running into the steps and denting them was sick as well.

The match was never going to be a classic, but I maintain it was the best they were going to do, and it was not a shit match. It was a good match with great storytelling and psychology. The action/moves in the match flowed well, and the aftermatch was awesome. The big thing about the match is it should've never been inside HIAC. Should've been a normal match or a No DQ match (to justify using the weapons without getting dq'd). What the match accomplished though was setting up the ground work for the potential WM feud between Punk and Ryback for the title, where Ryback does beat Punk, or if Punk doesn't have the title, Ryback could go after Big Show or Sheamus.

So yeah, it was a good match all around. Not a good cell match, but I'd now easily put it over Taker/Bossman, Taker/Kane, Nash/HHH, and DX/McMahons.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Can someone elaborate on how the Kane vs Taker cell match is considered one of the worst?

I haven't seen it since 2010 (and it might be the Kane mark in me...) but I thought it was an OK brawl, slightly spoiled by the bizarre-and-outdated ending. Its not one of the best Cell matches by a long stretch, but I can think of many more which I would place lower...

If any rivalry deserved a Hell in a Cell match it was Kane vs Undertaker!

EDIT: Might as well rank the PPV Cell matches whilst I'm here...

1) Lesnar vs Undertaker - No Mercy 2002
2) HBK vs Undertaker - Bad Blood 1997

3) HHH vs Cactus Jack - No Way Out 2000
4) Batista vs HHH - Vengeance 2005
5) Undertaker vs HHH - Wrestlemania 28
6) Undertaker vs Orton - Armageddon 2005
7) Undertaker vs Edge - Summerslam 2008
8) Undertaker vs Batista - Survivor Series 2007
9) Undertaker vs Mankind - King of the Ring 1998

10) Del Rio vs Cena vs Punk - Hell in a Cell 2011
11) Undertaker vs Punk - Hell in a Cell 2009
12) Orton vs Sheamus - Hell in a Cell 2010
13) HHH vs Jericho - Judgement Day 2002
14) Henry vs Orton - Hell in a Cell 2011
15) Angle vs Rock vs Austin vs HHH vs Taker vs Rikishi - Armageddon 2000
16) Orton vs Cena - Hell in a Cell 2009

17) Undertaker vs Kane - Hell in a Cell 2010
18) Punk vs Ryback - Hell in a Cell 2012
19) DX vs Legacy - Hell in a Cell 2009
20) DX vs McMahons & Big Show - Unforgiven 2006
21) HHH vs HBK - Badd Blood 2004

22) HHH vs Nash - Badd Blood 2003
23) Undertaker vs Bossman - Wrestlemania 15


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ooo, ranking cell matches... fun!

(*****)
1) Undertaker vs. HBK BB97
(****3/4)
2) Undertaker vs. Lesnar NM02
3) Undertaker vs. Edge SS08
(****1/2)
4) Batista vs. HHH Vengeance 05
(****1/4)
5) Undertaker vs. Batista SVS07
6) Undertaker vs. Orton Armageddon05
7) Foley vs. HHH NWO00
(****)
8) Undertaker vs. HHH WM28
9) Undertaker vs. Mankind KOTR98
10) 6-man HIAC Armageddon00
(***3/4)
11) Punk vs. Cena vs. Del Rio HIAC11
12) Jericho vs. HHH JD02
(***1/2)
13) Orton vs. Cena HIAC09
14) Orton vs. Sheamus HIAC10
15) DX vs. Legacy HIAC09
(***1/4)
16) Undertaker vs. CM Punk HIAC09
(***)
17) HBK vs. HHH BB04
18) Punk vs. Ryback HIAC12
19) Orton vs. Henry HIAC11
(**3/4)
20) DX vs. McMahons+Big Show
(**1/2)
21) Nash vs. HHH BB03
(**)
22) Undertaker vs. Kane HIAC10
(1/4*)
23) Undertaker vs. Bossman WM15


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Sheamus vs Big Show , (Hell In a Cell 10/28/12)* 

Yeah can't think of 5 matches in the company better than it this year. Lesnar/Cena, Cena/Punk, Bryan/Sheamus and Bryan/Punk OTL feel like locks, but I'd say its better than any Punk/Jericho match, better than Cena/Bryan, better than Punk/Ziggler, better than Lesnar/HHH, shit what else is there from WWE in 2012? Punk/Henry 4/2/12 feels like something I'd call better, but not by much and truth be told the finishing stretch as a completion of the story might be enough for me to rank Sheamus/Show better.

Loved the basic story of the match, Sheamus hasn't taken Show seriously and has to fight from the bottom the entire match. From the opening bell to the finish he's pummelled and beaten in nearly every exchange and even when he seemignly finds a small opening the sheer size and strength of Show is too much: especially loved the Cloverleaf counter and the kickout knocking Sheamus to the floor with Sheamus' pained expression really selling how lost for words he was at how the match had gone and how dominant Show had been. Thought the match also had some really subtle and simple but nonetheless smart spots to signify the plight Sheamus was in, a perfect example would be him having to alter his setup for the forearms to the chest spot, only for Show to still find a counter and regain control of the match.

Pacing was very good and they built the eventual moment Sheamus took control marvellously and it felt like a triumphant moment as a result. Thought they also made Sheamus look resilient enough in terms of consistently fighting Show but losing every battle, rather than having him bump for everything and give nothing in return. Closing stretch might honestly be the best of the year for me. Every kickout mattered and actually progressed the match with the two moves the match was built around proving ineffective for the first time, with Sheamus in particular really selling the shock at Show kicking out of the Brogue Kick. Actual finish felt like something out of a Western, two guys locked in a brutal fight going for one last throw of the dice, only for Show to just have the all important reach necessary to knock out Sheamus.

Hopefully this wakes people up who think Sheamus has to be carried to a good/great match. Guy is consistently solid and really has a style that he can work against guys of all sizes and styles, from Bryan and Ziggler to Tensai and Barrett. Bumps well, has strong offence, paces and times the big moments in his matches very well, sells superbly visually and physically: in many ways the perceived lack of stamina actually adds to his selling, since seeing his body drenched in sweat and in the Show match struggling to get to his feet really did sell the wear and tear of the match on an entirely different level. This is how you work a Heavyweight Main Event folks, top effort from both men.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Matches I have above it (and my top 10 so far for the year):

1) Punk/Bryan OTL
2) Punk/Jericho WM28
3) Bryan/Sheamus ER
4) Punk/Jericho ER
5) Punk/Cena NOC
6) Punk/Henry Raw 4/2/12
7) Taker/HHH WM28

Have those 7 above it, and the rest of the top 10:

8) Show/Sheamus HIAC
9) Punk/Kane/Bryan NWO
10) Orton/Jericho/Sheamus/Del Rio OTL


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's good to see Show and Seamus getting some praise. I'm already looking forward to a rematch between them to see how they'll work it. Watched it again and can firmly give it ****** and maybe even more when I watch it again at the end of the year. Punk/Ryback is still shit on a second viewing. Best thing about it was Ryback's epic new red gear and Paul Heyman screaming from outside the cell lol. HES ALIVE!! HES ALIVEEEEE!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> Matches I have above it (and my top 10 so far for the year):
> 
> 1) Punk/Bryan OTL
> 2) Punk/Jericho WM28
> ...


Ehh, neither of the Punk/Jericho matches did it for me, though I see why they're popular. Wrestlemania was a match divided by two halfs, opening I thought was sub-par and all the drama around Jericho trying to get Punk DQ'd etc just seemed hammy and forced. I mean this is the Wrestlemania WWE Title match, perhaps the biggest in Punk's career and he's going to potentially lose his cool in the first 5 minutes? Nah I don't buy it now and didn't buy it then. The fact they then transitioned into a standard wrestling match just made the opening seem even more random, like someone in creative decided to add the stip and they just decided to fuck it off in the opening and then do the standard match they wanted to. Still I thought it meant the match was clearly interrupted in terms of flow and really it needed the second half to really save it: whilst I wouldn't call the second half great largely because of Jericho and his 'style' these days, I will say they worked the submission counters in far better fashion than others have done, to the point where they felt integral to the match and not being done for the sake of a counter.

Street fight was just not my thing. Jericho really shouldn't ever be in a violent brawl, he sucked in the Unforgiven Unsanctioned match and he pretty much sucked here. Think I rememeber him doing a chinlock or something at one point? Uhhhh. He's just too clean to work that sort of style convincingly and I can't buy him as a credible threat, same reason Michaels should never ever work hate filled brawls: neither guy has good enough punches/offence in general to communicate hatred. Only time I've enjoyed Jericho in that environment was the GAB match vs Michaels where he works the eye the entire match. Thought Punk was very good and some of the more sloppier spots added to the chaotic nature of the match, and Punk in particular took some big bumps to put over the hate. Still this is a WWE streetfight, meaning 99% of the same weapons and spots appeared and it really made it hard for me to be properly invested: if it was more of a legit fight rather than singapore canes and other props it could have worked better. I thought both guys coming in street clothes was a great touch though, wrestlers wearing their normal attire in brawling matches always looks terrible IMO.

Taker/HHH...pass. Michaels' hammy acting, HHH and his monologues, a decent and compelling story being hammered and hammered and hammered into the viewer's heads until it became irritable, and the fact that HHH and Taker will never have the sort of chemistry to make this sort of match work. Failed at trying to be like the Wrestlemania 26 match in terms of storytelling and WWE Main Event wrestling.

The rest I agree on as being better, with Lesnar/Cena being the Company and worldwide MOTY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Sheamus/Big Show and it was an excellent match like I expected from them. The first half was a bit slow but I liked the storytelling with Sheamus working as the underdog and trying his best to use anything to overcome the Big Show. Great selling job by Sheamus too which makes me wonder what everybody who says he can't sell has been smoking. Then it only gets better in the second half with the signatures and finishers being busted out. Sheamus doing the Celtic Cross was impressive and them kicking out of each other's well-protected finishers was awesome too. I didn't mind the ending as I enjoyed the match itself. Big Show wins and I wonder where they go from here. I rate this ***3/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ahh yes, the HIAC match rankings.... The first ever project I did for this forum where I established my love for the match type and how it was the greatest match type of all time. Did a HUGEEEEE Choke2Death like writeup on the subject, as well as how Taker and Triple H are the only 2 to have really controlled the classics of this match type. Fantastic stuff, might flush that post out sometime, but here are my updated rankings (excluding the 2 98 RAW matches , as well as the 2011 post Raw dark match which I actually saw):

*HIAC Rankings (as of OCT 2012)*

1. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (BB 97) : ****** (GOAT Match)*

2. Triple H vs Batista (VEN 05) : ***** 3/4 (MOTY)*
3. Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar (NM 02) : ***** 3/4*

4. Triple H vs The Undertaker (WM XXVIII) : ***** 1/2*
5. Undertaker vs Edge (SS 08) : ***** 1/2*
6. Triple H vs Mick Foley (NWO 00) : ***** 1/2*

7. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (ARM 05) : ***** 1/4*

8. The Undertaker vs Batista (SS 07) : ******
9. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (BB 04) : ******
10. Armageddon HIAC 6-Man : ******
11. The Undertaker vs Mick Foley (KOTR 98) : ******

12. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs John Cena (HIAC 11) : **** 3/4*
13. Triple H vs Chris Jericho (JD 02) : **** 3/4*

14. CM Punk vs The Undertaker (HIAC 09) : **** 1/2*
15. Mark Henry vs Randy Orton (HIAC 11) : **** 1/2*
16. Triple H vs Kevin Nash (BB 03) : **** 1/2*

17. DX vs The Mcmahons/Big Show (UNF 06) : **** 1/4*
18. DX vs Legacy (HIAC 09) : **** 1/4*

19. CM Punk vs Ryback (HIAC 12) : *****
20. Randy Orton vs Sheamus (HIAC 10) : *****

21. John Cena vs Randy Orton (HIAC 09) : *** 3/4*

22. Undertaker vs Kane (HIAC 10) : ***

23. The Undertaker vs Big Bossman (WM XV) : *DUD. FUCK THIS MATCH.*

Three Underrated :

1. HBK-Taker BB 97 (Yes I know it gets a ton of love, but I read a top 10 matches in October PPV history list yesterday and this was only number 4. Should be a universal top 5 match for everyone, dead serious when I say that)
2. Punk-Taker HIAC 09 (Short but sweet, great leg work here and a great overall story)
3. Orton-Henry / HHH-Nash (Couldn't choose, LOVE and ADORE both of these matches)

Three Overrated :

1. Triple H vs The Undertaker WM XXVIII (Yeah I know, it's one of the best matches of the year for sure and an overall great match, I just believe it's slightly overrated. A ton of overkill and over the top performances by HBK brings it down slightly for me. Still, I LOVE THIS MATCH and I think it's Taker's 5th best Mania match)
2. Randy Orton vs Sheamus HIAC 10 (has legit one of the dumbest moments I've ever seen in a match. I don't even need to explain it, just watch the match yourself, how the commentators justify this dumb action is hilarious)
3. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Just not a good match. PERIOD.)

King of the Cell : *The Undertaker*

Runner Up : *THE GAME*


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Well now I have to watch that Sheamus-Orton match just to see what you're talking about.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IDK where I'd rank Show/Sheamus for WWE this year. Blows HHH/Taker out of the water. Lesnar/Cena and Bryan/Sheamus were better. I don't know if I'm QUITE sold on Punk/Cena being better, but could go either way and right now I would probably lean toward Punk/Cena. I never saw Bryan/Punk or HHH/Lesnar. Is anything on TV better? I loved Henry/Punk but it's essentially 2/3rds of a match and Show/Sheamus actually had the great finishing stretch that Punk/Henry was missing. Don't love the Punk/Jerichos. I did like Mania quite a bit but Extreme Rules was boring and I wanted it to end after 10 minutes. 

Punk/Ryback would absolutely be near the bottom of a HIAC list for me. If it was "rather watch" it might be at the very bottom.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Is it the infamous back breaker on the steps spot :lol ?


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Sheamus vs Show is the match of the night for me too, and probably the best match in WWE this year since the Bryan vs Punk match in Over the Limit.

WWE MATCH OF THE YEAR:

1. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules
2. Dean Ambrose vs William Regal - FCW 15/7
3. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit
4. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules
5. Sheamus vs Big Show - Hell in a Cell
6. CM Punk vs Mark Henry - Raw 2/4
7. CM Punk vs John Cena - Night of Champions
8. Christian vs Drew McIntyre - Superstars ¿?

...

I remember some Bryan vs Show matches at the begining of the year that I enjoyed a lot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1) The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels ~ *****

2) The Undertaker/Steve Austin vs Kane/Mankind ~ N/R

3) The Undertaker vs Mankind ~ ****1/2

4) Kane vs Mankind ~ **

5) The Undertaker vs Big Bossman ~ DUD

6) Cactus Jack vs Triple H ~ ****1/2

7) The Undertaker vs Steve Austin vs The Rock vs Triple H vs Kurt Angle vs Rikishi ~ ****

8) Triple H vs Chris Jericho ~ ***1/2

9) The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar ~ ****3/4

10) Triple H vs Kevin Nash ~ ***1/4

11) Triple H vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***

12) Triple H vs Batista ~ ****1/2

13) The Undertaker vs Randy Orton ~ **** 

14) Triple H & Shawn Michaels vs Big Show, Vince McMahon, & Shane McMahon ~ ***1/4

15) The Undertaker vs Batista ~ **3/4

16) The Undertaker vs Edge ~ ****1/2

17) The Undertaker vs CM Punk ~ ***

18) John Cena vs Randy Orton ~ **3/4

19) Triple H & Shawn Michaels vs Cody Rhodes & Ted Dibiase Jr ~ *

20) Randy Orton vs Sheamus ~ ****

21) The Undertaker vs Kane ~ *

22) The Undertaker vs Triple H ~ ****3/4​

Need to see the 2011 ones & Punk vs Ryback. The HIAC '09 ones are from the only time I viewed it. Those might change upon a needed re-watch. Rest are done deals. I already know where I stand in the minority with one of these matches. Gonna steal K1ngOfK1ngs underrated/overrated thing because I like it. STOLEN~

_Most Underrated_:

1) Randy Orton vs Sheamus - _Hell in a Cell 2010_
Awesome, awesome match. Was into everything they did to make it work. Their matches starting from January to October really flourished. This was the defining bout in their series.

2) DX vs Big Show/McMahons - _Unforgiven 2006_
Seen this match a dozen times and every time I never see what fans have to gripe about. I thought this accomplished everything it set out to do and more. Honestly one of the more brutal cell matches when you really think about it. Not just because of the whole 'head in ass' spot either. I'm serious. Good match.

3) Triple H vs Kevin Nash - _Bad Blood 2003_
Very underrated and I know why. Kevin Nash. The beginning pace of the match sure wasn't brisk, but who says a match needs to be jammed with fast paced mega spots to define what it's trying to do? These guys made it work. Made up for the garbage that was their Judgment Day match too. So going from a DUD to ***1/4 was a vast improvement. Always loved the use of the tool box in this one. Nash took ALL of that hammer shot. Plus this had the FOLEY factor. That's always worth something in my book. :mark:


_Most Overrated_:

1) The Undertaker vs Batista - _Survivor Series 2007_
I just don't see it. In all of their other matches in 2007, yes, they're great. Love them. This one...eh..not so much. Always struggle to get into it. Never care. I know a lot like to say HHH/HBK Hell in a Cell is boring (fair enough), but to me this one really is. Felt like all the energy from both men were gone during the entire thing. Now it's not the worst HIAC out there, far from it, but it's an underwhelming one for me. Easily deserving of Most Overrated in my book.


*Top 5 Hell in a Cell Matches*:

1) The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - _Badd Blood 1997_
2) The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar - _No Mercy 2002_
3) The Undertaker vs Mankind - _King of the Ring 1998_
4) Triple H vs Batista - _Vengeance 2005_
5) The Undertaker vs Edge - _Summerslam 2008_

This gimmick has worked more often than not. That's why I'm such a big fan. Sure the last few years have taken a hit to the gimmick, but not all of them had to rely on blood to give it something. Taker/Edge is the example there. But, I do feel the WWE needs to make this match feel huge again. WrestleMania was a perfect job. They did it there. An annual PPV to where championship matches get placed in it, meh, not the best. Especially if it is a new program. Last two years they've given us matches that really had no business being inside the Cell.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Is it the infamous back breaker on the steps spot :lol ?


Hahahahaha , somebody got what I was talking about. That makes absolutely NO. FUCKING. SENSE!

Anywhoways, rewatched Show-Sheamus and gave the official **** stamp of approval to it. What a fucking match, I've been gushing about this match for like the past 20 hours. This inspired me to post my UPDATED top 10 WWE matches of 2012....

*Top 10 WWE Matches of 2012 (as of Oct 29)*

1. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) : ***** 3/4*
2. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules) : ***** 3/4*

3. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : ***** 1/2*
4. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : ***** 1/2*

5. CM Punk vs John Cena (Night of Champions) : ***** 1/4*
6. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam) : ***** 1/4*
7. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules) : ***** 1/4*

8. CM Punk vs Mark Henry (4/2/12) : ******
9. Sheamus vs The Big Show (Hell in a Cell) : ******
10(TIE). CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) : ******
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) : ******

That's pretty much the ****+ matches from the E' at this point. CM Punk is hands down once again my WOTY and I don't see how anybody else could catch him with only two months left to go. Seems pretty impossible from where I sit for sure. The MVP of the company right now, I truly believe he's approaching the status (fuck it, he's already there) that they NEED him.

When Taker, Trips, and HBK stopped wrestling or working part-time at Wrestlemania XXVI, it seems that Punk has taken over the role as the 7 day a week showstopper. 

Curious that we talk about matches so much but.... *Who do you guys have as your WOTY from 93-now ? * Seems like that topic doesn't get discussed as much as it should. When I say WOTY I mean in-ring, btw.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Damn forgot about Regal/Ambrose II, that's definitely knocking about in the top 5 for the year and definitely something I could see being better than Sheamus/Show, if only for the respective performances by Regal and Ambrose as well as the subtle callbacks to elements of the year long feud.

WOTY 93-2012 (worldwide)

93 - Genichiro Tenryu (USA only, Vader)
94 - Mitsuharu Misawa (USA only, Dustin Rhodes)
95 - Mitsuharu Misawa
96 - Shinya Hashimoto (USA only, Lord Steven Regal)
97 - Eddie Guerrero
98 - N/A
99 - N/A
00 - Toshiaki Kawada (USA only, Tajiri)
01 - Steve Austin
02 - Yoshihiro Takayama (USA, N/A)
03 - Kenta Kobashi (USA, Bryan Danielson)
04 - Eddie Guerrero
05 - Eddie Guerrero
06 - Finlay 
07 - John Cena
08 - Nigel McGuinness
09 - Rey Mysterio/Christian
10 - Black Terry (USA, CM Punk)
11 - Mark Henry 
12 - Finlay

1998 and 1999 are complete blindspots for me. No-one stands out from WWF/WCW/ECW, and puro/lucha is pretty much non existant to me as well. I guess I'd probably go for one of Misawa or Kawada but I can't recall enough matches from the respective years that stand out as merit for awarding them the title. New Japan has me saying I should pimp Hashimoto or someone, but truth be told I might have an Ishikawa/Ikdea or other shoot style guy as #1 for either year. Think Kiyoshi Tamura had a couple of really strong matches in both years.

2002 I can't think of a single American based wrestler who stands out amongst the rest. Rock had some blinding moments, Lesnar was pretty good and probably has the strongest resume between Summerslam and No Mercy, but that's more a case of him appearing more of a frontrunner than actually delivering consistent performances to justify WOTY status.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*HHH/Taker, Mania 28 -* *******
*Cena/Lesnar, Extreme Rules -* *****3/4*
*Punk/Bryan, Over the Limit - ******1/2*

That's the only 3 I'm certain of right now. I'm going to rewatch the rest of the contenders at the end of the year over Xmas break to come up with a definitive list though. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nothing is topping Cena/Lesnar for me. Punk may have ruled this year, but Cena/Lesnar is far too incredible to be topped. God damn what a match.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just ordered Armageddon '07, Flair: Definitive Collection and Mysterio: Biggest Little Man off Silvervision.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm going to try this one with the 2012 matches.

1. Undertaker/HHH (Wrestlemania 28) - ****3/4
2. Brock Lesnar/John Cena (Extreme Rules) - ****1/2
3. Sheamus/Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules) - ****1/4
4. CM Punk/Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) - ****1/4
5. The Rock/John Cena (Wrestlemania 28) - ****
6. Sheamus/Randy Orton/Chris Jericho/Alberto del Rio (Over the Limit) - ****
7. Sheamus/Big Show (Hell in a Cell) - ***3/4
8. CM Punk/John Cena (Night of Champions) - ***3/4
9. Brock Lesnar/HHH (SummerSlam) - ***1/2
10. Chris Jericho/Dolph Ziggler (SummerSlam) - ***1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If Lesnar had won it's a 5* match for me. That may sound petty but I don't care lol. I'm a huge Cena mark but fuck did that ending ever piss me off. I'm just happy that it hasn't been able to ruin the rest of the match for me and what a match it is. Something truly special and rare in todays WWE. Brock's physical presence is just on another level all together. It can't be said enough how legit scary this dude is. When he walked past me at Raw I was just blown away. He's HUGE. Ryback can suck a dick compared to Lesnar lol.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh my God, just saw Regal/Ambrose II (Never saw the first one). My God, what a brutal match. Man, that's what you call some old school RASSLIN'

I loved how Regal was working Ambrose's arm. The spot where hehad his arm in the steps, just sick. Who needs chairs, tables, thumbtacks or bats when you got the damn ring itself as a weapon? Ambrose removing the turnbuckle when Regal was forced to break, just great ring awareness. 

Man, and how about Ambrose slapping the shit out of Regal's ear. I loved how Regal showed that he was losing balance as a result. I've never seen that in a wrestling match before. And those last few seconds was just brutal. Ambrose kicks Regal's ear into the turnbuckle repeatedly till it actually bleeds open. Was that planned? My God it was sick.

It really goes to show that you don't need tables, ladders, chairs and all that sort of stuff to make a match violent. Just terrific. I'm not sure if that match was stopped because Regal was seriously hurt or if things were planned that way but props to regal for taking that like a man. Man, this match was BRUTAL.

****1/2


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio- ***1/2
Team Hell No vs. Team Rhodes Scholars- **3/4
Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz- ***
Antonio Cesaro vs. Justin Gabriel- **1/2
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Sin Cara vs. Prime Time Players- **1/4
Sheamus vs. Big Show- ****
Eve vs. Layla vs. Kaitlyn- N/A, I went to the bathroom, but I heard this was actually decent
CM Punk vs. Ryback- ***

Overall, a very fun show I thought, Show/Sheamus completely blew me out of the water. I really did think much of Miz/Kofi or Orton/ADR going in, but I am glad it surprised me. If Cesaro/Gabriel could get like 10 minutes in front of a decent crowd :mark:

I quite enjoy the Bryan/Punk series from this year (RAW, SD!, OTL, MITB). So I would would probably rate at least 3 of those ahead of Sheamus/Show, also Punk/Henry NO DQ, Lesnar/Cena, and MAYBE Ziggler/Punk Royal Rumble (I enjoyed this more than most people). But yea, Show/Fella was just awesome, could possibly go up on rewatch.

One last thing, anyone else think WWE has been on fire on TV this year? What are some of you guys favorite matches from TV this year? Mine are (and I do not remember so dates off the top of my head):

Punk/Henry III
Any Jericho/Fella match
Punk/Bryan (as stated before)
Sandows/Sheamus (**** in my opinion)
Show/Bryan from January (Awesome David vs Goliath story)
..and I am sure I am forgetting stuff lol, top of my head of course.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Oh my God, just saw Regal/Ambrose II (Never saw the first one). My God, what a brutal match. Man, that's what you call some old school RASSLIN'
> 
> I loved how Regal was working Ambrose's arm. The spot where hehad his arm in the steps, just sick. Who needs chairs, tables, thumbtacks or bats when you got the damn ring itself as a weapon? Ambrose removing the turnbuckle when Regal was forced to break, just great ring awareness.
> 
> ...


Definitely a work. The entire feud was centred around Regal seeing something in Ambrose that both terrified and excited him. There's this amazing promo where Regal basically says he's been repressing his evil side but Ambrose has brought it back to the surface, so amazing at being genuinly psycho. He talks about how if he set a man on fire most of the roster would run away, but Ambrose would come and join him in warming his hands. Just incredibly dark material.

First match is great in its own right, but definitely a step or too behind the rematch. Whole match revolves around Ambrose selling the arm like a champ and proving himself as a legit tough SOB in refusing to quit, only to be put out of his misery by Regal. The whole setup behind the rematch revolved around Ambrose taunting Regal and Regal basically acknowlodging the rematch could very well be his last. Final few minutes of the rematch are essentially what the feud had been building to, Regal a bloody mess at the hands of Ambrose who has his career in his hands, just beautfiul storytelling. Here's my write up for both matches:

Regal vs Ambrose I:



> *William Regal vs Dean Ambrose , (FCW 11/06/11)*
> 
> Fucking awesome awesome match here that deserved its incredible pimping on a few other forums, Regal arguably puts in one of the performances of the year, busts out a ton of innovative and creative shit and is incredibly vicious even for Regal standards, Ambrose is the perfect foil for him with his incredible mannerisms, taunting and selling of the beating. I could see some people thinking this was too one-sided but when you follow the incidents that led to the match and Regal talking about unleashing his inner villain again, Ambrose taking as emphatic a beating as he does only to come back asking for more really put him over as this tough son of a bitch you have to respect whilst still having tremendous hate and unease towards with how demented and sick he comes across.
> 
> ...


Regal vs Ambrose II:



> *William Regal v Dean Ambrose II- The Final Encounter , (FCW 7/15/12)*
> 
> EVERYONE go watch this like asap. Such a wonderfully constructed match paying homage to the entire focus of the feud, and a brilliantly extended opening with Regal torturing Ambrose with some of the nastiest holds I've seen inside a WWE ring. It all builds and builds with you not believing that Ambrose will be put away despite the disgusting abuse of his left arm (the same arm that Regal dislocated 1 year ago), and the moment where he catches Regal off guard and becomes the aggressor is just amazing. Regal sells everything in such a legit way you actually question if he may actually be legit fucked, Ambrose popping his shoulder back into place before going on the offensive was just such an awesome little character quirk and the way he hovers over a defenceless Regal has this really eerie atmosphere where you feel like you're about to watch a man be endlessly abused without any ability to stop the agony. Ambrose working over a BLOODY EAR of Regal like a vicious pitbull was totally awesome, and the extended selljob of Regal appearing to be on his last legs only to pull off one little moment of genius to catch Ambrose off guard was such a superb 'veteran' spot. The whole ending could be divisive, but just consider this: the whole feud was about Regal acknowledging Ambrose possessed the Regal esque viciousness to end his career, and yet the sick bastard wanted to fight him because to walk away and hide from such a beating was just not in his nature. The entire build throughout the match culminating in the ending was what this feud had built up to: Ambrose having Regal in a scarily vulnerable position and having his career in his hands. Go into the match with that ideology and I can't see you hating the finish. It really couldn't have been executed much better. And the final bit of action (you'll know it when you see it) was just the absolute embodiment of the clash of characters and the definitive ending to this absolutely stupendous long term angle.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

I enjoyed Show-Sheamus but thought the first part was pretty boring tbh.

Anyway only thing I'm certain of is Bryan-Punk OTL is my MOTY, I have Taker-HHH and Cena v Lesner pretty much on a par, will be rewatching both to make a final call.

Next would come Sheamus v Bryan which was a fantastic hard hitting, well paced match.

Jericho-Punk Mania and Cena v Punk Night of Champions are close in quality and would be my 5th and 6th favourites of the year.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> If Lesnar had won it's a 5* match for me. That may sound petty but I don't care lol. I'm a huge Cena mark but fuck did that ending ever piss me off. I'm just happy that it hasn't been able to ruin the rest of the match for me and what a match it is. Something truly special and rare in todays WWE. Brock's physical presence is just on another level all together. It can't be said enough how legit scary this dude is. When he walked past me at Raw I was just blown away. He's HUGE. Ryback can suck a dick compared to Lesnar lol.


I was honestly happy that Cena ended up winning that match. I wasn't rooting for him at first but as the beating wore on I honestly started to get behind him in the match. That was really something special, can't believe we saw a match like that in WWE.



Hell in a Cell 2012

*
Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio w/Ricardo Rodriguez *

While it's not the best booking philosophy putting two upper car guys in a random match against each other because they have nothing planned for either guy does make for some really good matches. This was pretty awesome with Del Rio working Orton's arm for most of the match and Orton sold it really well of course. There were a few bad looking spots in the match, Del Rio really shouldn't be going to the top rope very often, but other than those moments this went really well. THe ending came out of nowhere but I thought it worked since both guys have big moves that they can hit out of nowhere. These guys have great chemistry together and when one of them gets the title back I would love to see a longer match between the two. 
****1/4 *


_WWE Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Daniel Bryan and Kane(c) vs. Cody Rhodes and Damien Sandow*

The show continues with another really good match. Kane and Bryan have their dynamic down perfectly and it worked well with the compatible Rhodes and Sandow. When Bryan gets some offense going and you see the angry face he's incredible. Despite being the smallest guy in the ring he is able to look like a total badass at times. I was a huge fan of the ending but at least we'll see another match from the teams again. I would imagine that all this tag team stuff is being done to set up a big TLC match at TLC and the road there should be fun.
*****

_
Intercontinental Championship Match: _
*The Miz vs. Kofi Kingston(c)*

I wasn't really into this at all until Miz attacked the leg of Kofi. At that point the intensity really picked up as we saw a mean streak from the Miz and an underdog performance from Kofi. It still falls into the category of good that both guys seem to have all the time but it didn't get into great territory. I wish they had just gone to the leg work much earlier but this still worked fiarly well I guess.
***3/4 *


_
United States Championship Match:_
*Antonio Caesero(c) vs. Justin Gabriel*

This could have been incredible I think if they hadn't been so concerned with making Antonio look strong. The guy has an amazing ability to work well with smaller high fliers so on paper Gabriel seems like the perfect guy to go against him. I know they've had better matches than this one as well. My biggest problem is that I never really felt that Gabriel had a chance to win, which is a problem when you have an underdog in the match like him. There was a lot of cool stuff that they did but I just wished they hadn't been so concerned with making the champion look dominant. 
***1/4*



*The Prime Time Players vs. Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara*

This was actually a lot better than it I thought it would be. PTP were willing to sell for the smaller guys and the way they were able to use their strength on them made created a good dynamic. Sin Cara was actually really good at getting isolated before making the hot tag. He didn't botch anything and sold well. Things picked up when Rey got the hot tag. This wasn't anything special but I don't have the highest opinion of anyone in this match but Rey so the fact that they were able to pull it off is impressive. 
***1/2 *


_
World Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*Sheamus(c) vs. The Big Show*

Wait this isn't taking place inside the cell? That one complaint aside this was incredible. I didn't even want to watch it at first but I'm glad that I did. The story of the match early on was that Sheamus was in the ring with someone that able to man handle him for a change. The Big Show's control segment early on was pretty good (fucking brutal chops) but it wasn't until Sheamus stared showing som life that this really kicked it into the next gear. I was on the edge of my seat near the end because I got to the point where I really didn't know who was going to win, and I was about as sure as you could be before the match that I knew who was going to win. Both guys made each other look stronger than before the match. I can't wait to see a re-match. This is the best match from Big Show that I've seen in years. 
***** *

_
Divas Championship:_
*Eve(c) vs. Layla vs. Caitlynn* 

Last move of the match aside they executed everything pretty well. This was watchable at least as they kept it short, did some cool moves, and kept the match moving. Bad spot on the card and a dead crowd but the later can be expected. 
**1/2 *
_

Hell in a Cell Match for the WWE Champinship:_
*CM Punk(c) w/Paul Heyman vs. Ryback*

This is why you should book yourself into a corner like this. I'll admit the ending took me by surprise but that's not how I want a PPV to end. The match was good for he time it lasted. Early on it was all about the question, "How the hell is Punk going to pull this off?" He played a good role of a scared heel and Heyman really added to that. Still this was the main event of a PPV and it lasted maybe 10 minutes.Post match stuff was awesome but when the ref takes the biggest bump of the match I have a problem with things. If this happened on Raw I would say it was a great TV main event, on a PPV not so much. 
***3/4 *​
Overall this was a decent show. Big Show/Sheamus was great and really saved this. The undercard gave you some good matches but I feel like this could hae been a lot better.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Tanner1495 said:


> Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio- ***1/2
> Team Hell No vs. Team Rhodes Scholars- **3/4
> Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz- ***
> Antonio Cesaro vs. Justin Gabriel- **1/2
> ...


Well the creative has been shit, so I've rarely watched the product.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> If Lesnar had won it's a 5* match for me.


This x1000. This and Cena/HHH WM22 (not trying to start this argument again) are the only two matches with endings that genuinely bother me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

US WOTY b/c someone asked for it:

93: Vader
94: Bret Hart or Dustin Rhodes
95: Bret Hart
96: Shawn Michaels
97: Eddie Guerrero
98: Chris Benoit
99: Chris Benoit (I hear some ECW guys were ruling it - haven't seen much of it)
00: Yoshihiro Tajiri
01: Steve Austin
02: Eddie Guerrero or Low Ki 
03: .....?
04: Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit
05: Eddie Guerrero
06: Finlay

I'm pretty useless after that. I'd need to watch more of the indy stuff.




Segunda Caida said:


> 03 - Kenta Kobashi (USA, Bryan Danielson)


Where WAS Dragon in 2003? Watching 2003 ROH I'm up to November and he's shown up like 3 times. Where did he work? I assumed he was doing NOAH, was he in the US?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> If Lesnar had won it's a 5* match for me. That may sound petty but I don't care lol. I'm a huge Cena mark but fuck did that ending ever piss me off. I'm just happy that it hasn't been able to ruin the rest of the match for me and what a match it is. Something truly special and rare in todays WWE. Brock's physical presence is just on another level all together. It can't be said enough how legit scary this dude is. When he walked past me at Raw I was just blown away. He's HUGE. Ryback can suck a dick compared to Lesnar lol.


I've debated going the full 5 for it regardless. I really can't think of a match that comes close to what that had. BROCK is in a league all by himself with his legit beast credibility. Cena continues to rule in big match situations. 

Now I wanted Brock to win too, but I'm not too surprised Cena won. Like I say every single chance I get: Cena to beat Rock at WM. Brock to beat Cena at Extreme Rules. That's what I wanted. (your plan about the Cena downward spiral would have been brilliant too)



The Lady Killer said:


> This x1000. This and Cena/HHH WM22 (not trying to start this argument again) are the only two matches with endings that genuinely bother me.


tbf, I do think I was over-critical on Cena/HHH WM 22.

Only result that I can recall that upset me was Orton beating Punk @ Extreme Rules 2011. Talk about making Punk look like a chump. He couldn't even beat Orton once. Fuck that. My rant was vicious.

Not happy about HHH over Orton at WrestleMania 25 either. I guess that resolved itself by Backlash though. (I was still an Orton mark at this time, haha)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Where WAS Dragon in 2003? Watching 2003 ROH I'm up to November and he's shown up like 3 times. Where did he work? I assumed he was doing NOAH, was he in the US?


I recall a few ROH matches I liked tbh, the London Ironman from Epic Encounter being the pinnacle of the year. Truth be told not many guys jumped out to me from America as WOTY (maybe Eddie for his tag work with Tajiri and then the lie, cheat, steal gimmick) and Danielson was a guy I remembered from a few matches (I want to say there's a Joe match from 2003 that I quite enjoyed) and figured was the best shout I could think of at the time. Pretty sure he was relegated to Japan for a lot of the year and maybe the odd Indy show, never been too enthralled with his early Japan work but he was stuck in a lot of tags with guys who were pretty shit and even the best match from that time (a Kanemoto match from 2004) barely reaches 10 minutes.

Good shout on Benoit for 98 and 99, he's probably the only guy from America I'd consider match wise. Honestly though trying to think of someone even from Japan/Lucha was a nightmare for those two years. BattlARTS was pretty great from the little I've seen, but aside from the odd Misawa and Kawada match, I can't think of too much New Japan/All Japan I've watched from that time frame.

EDIT:

If we're discussing bad finishes/matches that disappoint us, I want to find the agent who layed out Angle/Rey/Orton from WM22 and shoot him. Fuck it was probably Angle directing traffic in there. Clueless bastard. I mean we get Orton/Mysterio NWO being very good, Smackdown 4/7 being AMAZING and Angle/Taker NWO being a top 3 Angle match ever...and yet on the grandest stage we get one of the most dire choreographed matches in existence, with the added bonus of the underdog babyface looking like a little bitch to Angle. I want to say Rey even taps to an Ankle Lock when the ref is down? If I'm not mixing it up with another match they had..that just makes the entire debacle even more absurd.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Dragon had maybe two fun matches with Joe, then the really good London and Styles matches. IDK, doesn't feel like a Best in America catalogue, but I see some argument because there doesn't seem to be too many to contend with him. I think I prefer Corino and Homicide to Dragon that year, though. But I wouldn't call them Best in US guys either. There's other Indy guys like Ian Rotten that get a lot of praise, but I've seen none of it. Eddie's a good pick. I'd say Lesnar is probably fucking with the best of them but I don't really dig the Angle matches. That's a series I should re-watch soon. 2003 kind of sucked worldwide, didn't it? 

I'd say Ishikawa was the best wrestler in the world in 1998. Maybe 1999 as well but I want to watch the Tajiris and Yoshidas and other peeps that get talk as WOTY first. 98-99 NJ/AJ is a bit of a blind-spot for me as well, but I've seen the big Misawa/Kobashi Misawa/Kawadas from then, and they're not really great at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whenever I look back on 1998 and try to sum up the wrestlers that had a good year all that comes to mind was WCW's awesome midcard: Benoit, Jericho, Finlay, Raven, DDP, Saturn, Kanyon, Guerrera, Kidman(more in the latter half of the year)

Sadly I don't recall Eddie having too much strong stuff at that time. '98 was nothing compared to his '97.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah WCW had some really good shit. Eddie had some awesome tags that year. His feud with Chavo wasn't too great, but they had a really good match at a house show. Liked the Kidman match a Starrcade.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lesnar isn't a bad shout tbf, even if you discount the Cena series he's got the Mysterio and Benoit Smackdown matches as well as the really good Judgement Day match vs Big Show. Couple of really outrageous heel performances against Spanky and Gowen in the build up to Summerslam as well. Truth be told I'm not terribly high on the Angle series, I'd call them better than your average Angle match but they're a long mile away from his best matches against Austin, Taker and Mysterio.

Aye Danielson really was just about the only guy that came to mind when I tried to think of best US wrestler. Homicide and Corino I've seen nothing of from that timeframe, though I hear good reports from Jawbreaker and others about their series. Think its the Best Friends, Stiffer Enemies match which gets a ton of praise.

Joe was someone I considered but aside from the awesome Jay Briscoe cage match (you seen that btw? awesome sub 15 minute title match) I couldn't think of many matches from 03 of his I've seen and enjoyed immensely.

Rotten/Hero is probably the most overlooked match from 2002, and I really want to watch that other Rotten match Andy wrote about for the poll which he said was better than Hero/Rotten. Think its on a Schneider Comp if memory serves me right.

Yeah Ishikawa stood out from some of the Otsuka and Ikeda matches I've seen from 98/99, seems like wrestling as a whole was pretty subdued in those years.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lesnar is the guy I wanted to shout for 2003 from WWE. I even liked his match with Cena. The stuff with Big Show were great as was the matches with Kurt Angle. And he closed the year on a great note with the Benoit and Mysterio matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Joe was someone I considered but aside from the awesome Jay Briscoe cage match (you seen that btw? awesome sub 15 minute title match) I couldn't think of many matches from 03 of his I've seen and enjoyed immensely..


Nup, haven't seen Joe/Briscoe. I think I just watched the last show before it where Cornette teamed with the Briscoes and attacked Joe. Cage match is probably next. Good call on Joe, btw. Had really fun stuff all year and I don't think him being USWOTY is out of the question. He is kind of missing those big matches. He's probably the most consistent I've seen, I guess.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Lesnar's iron man match with Kurt was pretty kewl

i like how he used the steel chair to fuck up kurt and then easily make up for it


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Nup, haven't seen Joe/Briscoe. I think I just watched the last show before it where Cornette teamed with the Briscoes and attacked Joe. Cage match is probably next. Good call on Joe, btw. Had really fun stuff all year and I don't think him being USWOTY is out of the question. He is kind of missing those big matches. He's probably the most consistent I've seen, I guess.


I think you'll really dig it. Briscoe blades a ton and it gets pretty sick by the end (including a pretty disgusting visual of his skin hanging off his forehead), but during this you have Joe excelling as the Champion dominating only to grow frustrated by Jay's resiliency and eventually he shifts into a fearful and apprehensive champion who starts to believe he might have underestimated Briscoe. Jay's terrific working as the disrespectful heel who's tough enough to keep fighting and hit his spots for a comeback, and they even work a really nifty escape the cage attempt by Mark on the outside who then eats a sick bump on the hardwood floor.

Any Joe matches you can recommend? Aside from a Danielson match and that one his 03 is a blank spot for me.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

anyone seen the final punk title defence four way at ROH?

that match was great


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Going off memory it is pretty good, though Gibson is the star IMO with the way they book him and his eventual return. Punk/Aries is pretty stellar as well sans the Punk superhero ending, even if I admire why they executed it the way they did, it still looks total shit to see him pop up from stuff with minimal effort. Maybe Aries' career performance aside from the Final Battle 2004 match vs Joe.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah WCW had some really good shit. Eddie had some awesome tags that year. His feud with Chavo wasn't too great, but they had a really good match at a house show. Liked the Kidman match a Starrcade.


Yeah it was the real latter end of the year where he got some good stuff out. His match vs Ultimo Dragon at GAB should have been better. Didn't help that the fans were legit dead silent during it.



Redead said:


> anyone seen the final punk title defence four way at ROH?
> 
> that match was great


I'm a fan. Punk vs Gibson 2 shows before that (Fate of an Angel) was even better, imo.

Punk vs Aries Death Before Dishonor III is at about ****1/2 for me. Not hard to get caught up in the emotion of the bout though. It's the sole reason I purchased the show. Then that post match promo, jesus fuckin christ. I can harp on it for days.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> I think you'll really dig it. Briscoe blades a ton and it gets pretty sick by the end (including a pretty disgusting visual of his skin hanging off his forehead), but during this you have Joe excelling as the Champion dominating only to grow frustrated by Jay's resiliency and eventually he shifts into a fearful and apprehensive champion who starts to believe he might have underestimated Briscoe. Jay's terrific working as the disrespectful heel who's tough enough to keep fighting and hit his spots for a comeback, and they even work a really nifty escape the cage attempt by Mark on the outside who then eats a sick bump on the hardwood floor.
> 
> Any Joe matches you can recommend? Aside from a Danielson match and that one his 03 is a blank spot for me.


Dan Maff match at WrestleRave is good. Liked the Homicide match at Do or Die a lot and the No Holds Barred re-match was actually pretty fucking great IIRC. Might be the best Joe match I've seen in 03 so far. v London at DBD is also good. Match with Punk (BFSE) isn't THAT good, but it's probably my favourite Punk match of 2003 other than something with Raven. I remember thinking he carried a random dude at the FWA cross show to something pretty good. He's almost always the best guy in four corner matches. He faced one of the Briscoes (Don't remember which - I absolutely cannot tell them apart and will not listen to Gabe's commentary) at Tradition Continues and I liked it. Again not much REALLY REALLY good but he sort of had a sneaky great year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match vs Styles @ War of the Wire was pretty grand too, iirc. (which I'm sure I do. they have blazing chemistry)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cheers, will try and track some of them down (Y).

Think someone (Mike, Jawbreaker or sterling) brought up Punk vs Funk from ROH 2003 for the poll. Haven't seen it myself but two of them gave it the thumbs up and said its a legit great match. Built around Punk being a stooge and Funk being well....Funk.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Punk/Funk was fun. Craig adores it. IDK why people think it stinks. I didn't love it but there isn't anything necessarily wrong with it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's on the Stars of Honor DVD set. Haven't seen it myself, but I know of the post-match shenanigans. Punk/Jericho feud from this year used it to fuel that progam.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Orton/Del Rio - ***1/4
Hell No/Rhodes Scholars - **3/4
Gabriel/Cesaro - ***
Kofi/Miz - **3/4
PTP/Mysterio & Sin Cara - **1/2
Sheamus/Show - ***1/4
Divas - *3/4
Punk/Ryback - **

Guess I'm the only one who didn't care for the World Heavyweight title match. The first half of it was so, so boring. I didn't really like the PPV on the whole.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Segunda Caida said:


> Going off memory it is pretty good, though Gibson is the star IMO with the way they book him and his eventual return. Punk/Aries is pretty stellar as well sans the Punk superhero ending, even if I admire why they executed it the way they did, it still looks total shit to see him pop up from stuff with minimal effort. Maybe Aries' career performance aside from the Final Battle 2004 match vs Joe.


I absolutely loathe Punk/Aries. Just a ridiculous match. Cena should be taking notes from Punk on how to do a Superman ending because THAT'S how you do it.

Watching that match felt like playing a WWE video game. A hit there, a splash there, a move there. The match had no sort of structure. In the beginning Aries was working Punk's neck, then out of nowhere he starts doing crazy ass spring boards on Punk's lower back. The match is just a mess IMO.

Also, Punk sprinting back to life after Aries' delivered the Pepsi Plunge- get out of here. I'm not buying into that shit.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Sheamus vs. Big Show was well beyond anything I expected. Brilliant, brilliant match.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Rhodes Scholars vs Mysterio/Cara on RAW was a really solid match. Worth checking out.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Sheamus vs. Big Show was well beyond anything I expected. Brilliant, brilliant match.


I don't think anyone expected it to be such a quality match. It's probably the most surprisingly great match of the year. I honestly didn't expect much from them together but they proved me and many others wrong.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sheamus/TheBigShow = Goldberg/Steiner (FB 2000)

Both shockingly good matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I wouldn't call Sheamus/Show shockingly great. Sheamus works well with anyone who has a distinctive style, e.g Ziggler's pace, Bryan's striking/submission game, Barrett and Tensai working stiffer and Show is definitely a guy who excells as the dominant giant laying a beating. I didn't think they'd have as good a match as they did the first time around, but both guys' styles had me expecting something very good. Be interesting to see what rematch they do, I'd imagine a gimmick match could be booked and it'll be interesting to see how they develop the story from the first match. Guessing Sheamus will have more offence this time and the story might revolve around Show being impossible to put down, rather than Sheamus being unable to control the match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Am I the only one who was not surprised at how good Sheamus/Show was? I expected it to be MOTN along with Orton/Del Rio and it looks like that's what happened.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Enjoyed Ryback's outing in the Cell as well. Far from great, but I enjoyed it for what it was.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Aye, its a shame it had to be a Cell match, since as far as an actual angle goes it was well worked with Punk working smartly to outfox and take advantage of any Ryback slip up, whilst establishing he was pretty much second best in any straight up exchange with Ryback. Ryback looked good enough throwing Punk around whilst Punk retained a sense of intelligence and danger whenever he could engineer a route back into the match.

As I said though, just a shame it had to be contested under the Cell where as a match you expect/demand so much more than advancing an angle and developing two characters. I'm not sure if it would be as heckled if it was a straight up match in the middle of the card, and Sheamus/Show main events: though I suppose the World Title has been so overshadowed by the WWE title in terms of presentation and card placement that putting it on last at any PPV thesedays seems unthinkable.

Heyman was excellent though as the vocal strategist as well as selling the fear and destruction Ryback possessed.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Segunda Caida said:


> I wouldn't call Sheamus/Show shockingly great. Sheamus works well with anyone who has a distinctive style, e.g Ziggler's pace, Bryan's striking/submission game, Barrett and Tensai working stiffer and Show is definitely a guy who excells as the dominant giant laying a beating. I didn't think they'd have as good a match as they did the first time around, but both guys' styles had me expecting something very good. Be interesting to see what rematch they do, I'd imagine a gimmick match could be booked and it'll be interesting to see how they develop the story from the first match. Guessing Sheamus will have more offence this time and the story might revolve around Show being impossible to put down, rather than Sheamus being unable to control the match.


You would tell me before Sunday Sheamus and Show are having at or near a four star match together I wouldn't believe it. The combo didn't look that appealing to me on paper. Great job from both men. I agree it was nice seeing Sheamus work from the bottom against the giant. Heavyweight throwdowns can be super fun (i.e. Taker/Batista, Taker/Show, Show/Henry). I wonder how well Sheamus would work with Taker?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Huh, guess perceptions on the match just differ from person to person. I looked at the HIAC card and Sheamus/Show immediately jumped out to me as MOTN, seeing as both men aren't afraid to work stiff and take big bumps but also have enough of a wrestling brain to incorporate a story in between the violence in order for it to add to a match, rather than be an exhibition of who can hit harder. I can see people being surprised by just 'how good' it was though. Even I would have expected them to work better the more matches they had, but now I'm struggling to see how they can realistically better the HIAC encounter, which is pretty much top 5 for WWE this year, or at worst top 6.

As for working well with Taker....I don't know tbh. The problem is Taker won't work heel, which leaves us asking how well Taker and Sheamus could lay out a face/face match with escalating violence. Show and Henry are excellent at working as the big men bruisers who work their size and seemingly indestructive power as a story into a lot of their matches, and as a result guys like Sheamus who work well from the bottom are almost always guaranteed to click with them.

Sheamus however would realistically work more of a default heel when wrestling Taker, and from what I've seen Sheamus is far better as the hard hitting badass working from the bottom, than he is the bully beating up victims. Same with Taker, I think he's far better working as a face and working from the bottom to make his size and power the difference maker than he is the guy working as the base for a babyface to make a comeback against.

I just get the feeling Taker and Sheamus both work better in the role they were put in against Big Show, rather than essentially cancelling each other out. I think both work better when they have that monster base to work against, as a face/face match I think they could work well but definitely think they both shine in face/heel settings compared to face/face.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the first Elimination Chamber (Survivor Series 2002) earlier, first time in years I've seen it, love Kane in this one, Jericho and even Van Dam too, like when Kane threw Jericho into the chamber glass.

May watch Summerslam 2003 chamber next.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I would have been surprised if Show/Sheamus wasn't MOTN tbh. What did surprise me that it was the longest match on the card and it was a lot more than two beefheads hitting on each other (which I also would have liked and what prompted me to say it would've been match of the night).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*New Year's Revolution 2005:*

Eugene & William Regal vs Christian & Tyson Tomko - *3/4
- I hate tag matches and this one is no different. Always the same shit to the point you can call everything that happens before it actually does. What's more interesting is the fact Eugene injured his knee while doing a dropkick. I guess that finally gives us a few months break from his annoying ass character on the upcoming Raw episodes.

Lita vs Trish Stratus - *
- This match was ruined from the get go because Lita continued the "knee injury" streak after an awkward landing from the apron doing a Thesz Press. As such, the match is cut short prematurely and Trish quickly gives her a kick to the head and wins. I guess Lita really had bad luck with those outside jumps as the suicide dive she did a few weeks before almost broke her neck.

Shelton Benjamin vs Maven - 0
- I don't think either one of these "matches" can qualify for one. First time, Maven spends 5 minutes just talking outside the ring then gets rolled up quickly when continuing the match. The second "match" is just Shelton doing his finisher and a quick cover in five seconds. Waste of time!

Muhammad Hassan vs Jerry Lawler - **
- Muhammad looks like he's a little new and inexperienced in this match. He does a bunch of bodyslams at first then randomly busts out a Camel Clutch like a resthold. I was more entertained by Daivari's yelling at ringside. Also, Muhammad has some awesome mic skills and is a heat magnet. I'm surprised that he's not actually of Arab descent since he _really_ looks like one, which can be explained by the gimmick they gave him. Too bad it didn't last long.

Kane vs Snitsky - **1/2
- Not as bad as I expected it to be but still boring and nothing worthwhile. The tombstone from Kane was a nice bit of change after expecting a chokeslam, though.

HHH vs Batista vs Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho vs Edge (Elimination Chamber) - ****1/2
- Now this is what it's about! The main event and all this PPV relies on. This chamber match is the greatest from its gimmick I've seen so far and I doubt it's going to be topped by those I've yet to see. Just an awesome 35 minute match with an excellent line-up. 6 Hall of Fame worthy legends with Shawn Michaels as the guest referee to make it even better. Benoit & Jericho start things off and spend more time on mat-wrestling rather than brutally throwing each other into the steel chain but then HHH enters and the match takes off for the brutality it represents. Benoit is quickly busted open while HHH has to wait until the final entrant before Batista can come out and protect him. Then Edge enters and he inadvertently spears HBK which leads to a superkick and the elimination of him (leading to the Edge/HBK feud at the Royal Rumble). Then HHH is caught in no man's land when Jericho and Benoit lock a double submission (Walls of Jericho/Crippler Crossface) on him and he holds on for several seconds until Batista finally comes to the rescue. From then on, it's all about Batista destroying everyone in sight and the remaining Canadian competitors get eliminated fast. To an excellent ending, it comes down to the original members of Evolution all in the ring with Orton being the underdog face. Despite taking a beating, he manages to fight back and eliminates Batista as HHH just stands in the corner and watches. Towards the end, it's all about Orton being screwed over again while fighting to his best of abilities until Batista illegally attacks him when Flair takes a beating from HBK (lol). HHH finally does the Pedigree and it's time for the big number of 10 as he takes back the World Heavyweight Championship!

*Overall:* *** out of ***** (The PPV's undercard is terribly underwhelming but the main event is what it's about and that alone elevates the final rating big time. Absolutely love it!)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> it was a lot more than two beefheads hitting on each other


I've read this part of the post about 10 times over and it still reads as an uncomfortable sexual analogy.

The fact both men were semi-naked during the match isn't helping with this unfortunate mental image.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't watched any wrestling in ages but I got some time on my hands tonight and Sheamus/Show sounds like something I would be into. Actually that's a lie I caught a bit of Raw last week I think it was and Sheamus and Barrett had a pretty good match from what I could tell, wasn't paying attention.

Segunda Caida what did you think of Lesnar/HHH?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

very meh match imo

kinda felt like both men were holding back


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ownage™;12208697 said:


> Segunda Caida what did you think of Lesnar/HHH?


Taken from another place:



> Lesnar/HHH in theory had some good elements, but fuck me it was sooooooooooooooooo boring. HHH was never going to bump around and let Lesnar beat him like Cena did, so instead we got Brock working over the arm, and despite the work being good and fitting into the story....Lesnar just looked like a more aggressive Del Rio. The Cena match was unlike anything we'd seen for years, whereas this match despite being billed as the fight of the year didn't really feel that different to HHH/Punk or HHH/Taker. It was the same drawn out, slow plodding 'EPIC' HHH main event which just dragged and went too long.
> 
> Lesnar should be killing people, things like him attempting a cradle and working holds just seemed so out of place for 'a monster looking to hurt people'. At least when he injured Cena's arm at ER it was done in a snap fashion off of the Kimura, and put over Lesnar could kill you at any moment, rather than Lesnar just working a drawn out limb segment. Like I said it was good pyschology from a story standpoint, but it should have been a frantic pace to put over the hate, rather than some plodding and drawn out 'DRAMATIC MATCH'. Table spot and Lesnar's selling was excellent, but again would have worked much better if HHH had been like Cena and had little to no offence prior, I get they want to work some start where HHH 'gets in Lesnar's head' but the Cena deadlift powerslam out of the Kimura spot worked so well because despite being an amazingly impressive visual, it was the first real bit of offence he landed that hurt Lesnar. The table spot here was very well done, but HHH had largely been working even or not far behind Lesnar that it just didn't feel as big a hope spot as it could have been, HHH never looked as vulnerable as Cena did throughout the ER match and whilst I know we were never going to get a match close to Cena/Lesnar here, I just wished my predicition about HHH insisting on Lesnar working a slower pace hadn't come off. They made this personal and talked it up as a match which could end HHH's career, but did he honestly look anymore vulnerable than he did at Wrestlemania? Its like they wanted us to believe this was a career defining match and something horrific to watch...but they never wrestled or incorporated spots to reflect that.
> 
> HHH got banged up admittedly, but Cena looked like he was on the verge of being annihalated throughout the ER match, and this was coming off of a 3 week feud where they had one pull apart brawl, and Lesnar F-5ing Cena a couple of times. This had 3x the length in build, was far more personal in having Lesnar break HHH and HBK's arm...and yet the match had about 1/10th of the animosity and raw violence that Cena/Lesnar had. Again, it just goes back to HHH wanting to build the feud around this personal war but not wanting to eat the beating that would reflect that. And again, brawls/fights of this nature have to be excellent naturally, you can't work a slow pace and try to sell the drama, it just has to come naturally from the quick pace and big bumps. You watch a Lawler/Dundee match and it feels naturally dramatic, you see a HHH 'brawl' and it just feels so much damn slower and trying to capture this essence of 'emotion' and it just feels tame in comparison. I realise that's the WWE main event style, but holy god damn does it really show in a match like this. Finish made Brock look strong.


Ehh, there were things I did like about the match, but there's something about the way HHH lays out his version of a WWE Main Event Style match that just fails to pull me in. There were things I enjoyed, namely from Lesnar though I did appreciate them taking the effort to bring his real life injury into the equation, and Brock sold the shot in a really awesome 'monster realising he has a weakness after all' sort of way. Still there's just something in the atmosphere and way Cena lays out a match and eats a beating that had me glued into the Extreme Rules match. I knew going in HHH would never let Brock come close to beating him like Cena was prepared to, not that that is a knock against HHH per se but I knew Lesnar was never going to be allowed to look as terrifying as he was in Chicago, and I just didn't find the brawling exchanges to be that enthralling (which is a common recurrence for HHH brawling sans a few matches).


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

quick question

did treating triple h like a legit fighter annoy anyone here?

because i remember a lot of sand in vaginas in the rest of the forum with people complaining about how lesnar would murder triple h in 10 seconds

i mean its true, but seriously, its fucking wrestling. do you want them to admit theyre shit and have brock kill hunter but still


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I thought HHH got far too much offence in, or at least they didn't time the point he went onto offence very well. To me he was never established in as much physical danger as Cena was, a lot of that can be attributed to Cena's selling and just the way he eats an asskicking, but its a problem for me when they build the feud largely around Lesnar being a machine and HHH potentially walking into a massacre. I honestly think bell to bell he probably took close to if not a greater beating in either Taker match, at least in terms of bumps.

I understood they were trying to go for the old 'fired up babyface can overcome the monster' story with HHH constantly being able to match Lesnar in the brawling exchanges in the build up. I thought they could have had Lesnar convincingly overcome a HHH onslaught to really sell how much of a monster he is, rather than simply retreating on numerous occasions but its standard wrestling storytelling so its not like I can complain about not being conditioned to it.

HHH's 'This isn't UFC' line really fucking sucked though imo. It just felt so cheesy and self-pandering on WWE's part instead of the battle cry it was supposed to sound like.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think HHH getting so much offense was acceptable when he found a weakness in Lesnar to work on (the stomach). Although it still just feels weird that Cena (somebody who's made HHH tap out) was barely able to escape with a victory yet HHH hung with Lesnar like an experienced fighter.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The stomach assault and everything after felt acceptable, however prior to that HHH never felt as perilous as Cena did. Compare the Table spot to Cena deadlifting Lesnar onto the steps, both fucking tremendous spots, but the Cena spot stands out much better because of the timing and the beating Cena had taken prior. That was the first time he took Lesnar off his feet and seriously had him on the ropes, and the crowd reaction epitomised that. The spot in HHH/Lesnar was still excellent in its own right, but everything before it didn't give it that 'monumental changing of the tide' feeling it should have.

Again I just think it shows when you have Lesnar working a standard wrestling limb assault instead of letting the dude just mangle and decimate his opponents with an arsenal of strikes, submissions and displays of frightening power.

Lesnar sold both spots incredibly though, that I won't argue with. The Cena spot in particular just had him rocking this perfect 'what the fuck' face as pain pierced his body and he suddenly felt in a vulnerable position.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle from September 2003 last night....

LOVED the emphasis on striking vs technical wrestling, those counters from strikes turning into fireman's carries/pinning combinations were a thing of beauty. Taker just decides "fuck it" and matches Angle's technical prowess in perhaps some of his greatest technical exchanges ever. They really put across the fact that if Taker connects with a strike, he'll absolutely KILL Angle, and Angle does a brilliant job of putting Taker's strikes over. 

The whole "reverse all of Taker's finishers/moves into the Angle lock" sequences are pure gold and I think they're executed to near perfection (perfection would be the NWO 06 match). Taker's submissions seem insanely credible, and the POP for the fujiwara armbar is insane for what would be considered by the casual fan as a basic submission. I can't gush on about this match enough, one of the best television matches that I've ever seen for sure. 

If you can, watch this match with the pre match interviews included, as they help contribute to the story..Like ALOT. How both are adamant about matching the others style, the passion...Actually, don't watch this WITHOUT the pre match interviews. This match kicks ass, and although I'm not as in love with this as Cal is, I believe that it deserved to be higher than 57 on the top 100 list (and it will be higher on my revision of the list  ) . Seriousy, don't know how HBK-Flair is ranked higher, even if it DOES have :flair

***** 1/2 (AWSUM)*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> *New Year's Revolution 2005:*
> 
> Eugene & William Regal vs Christian & Tyson Tomko - *3/4
> - *I hate tag matches and this one is no different*. Always the same shit to the point you can call everything that happens before it actually does. What's more interesting is the fact Eugene injured his knee while doing a dropkick. I guess that finally gives us a few months break from his annoying ass character on the upcoming Raw episodes.


Please tell me you were exaggerating.

Undertaker vs Kurt Angle from SmackDown 2003 ~ ****3/4.

:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Most overrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?
Most underrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?

PERSONAL favorite (NOT the best) ?

SHOOT.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Taker/HHH HIAC most overrated: Good match, but no more than ****
Underrated: Sheamus/Bryan Street Fight or Sheamus/Jericho on SD. Fuck, Sheamus has put on some good matches. If only his finishes weren't so predictable

Personal favorite: Punk/Bryan OTL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_Overrated_: Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio - Over The Limit 2012

_Underrated_: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane - No Way Out 2012

_PERSONAL Favorite_: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - Money In The Bank 2012

Nothing from TV sticks out from my mind simply because most praised what was deserving (Punk vs Danielson matches, Sheamus/Danielson street fight, Punk/Henry 4/2, Cena/Danielson, Sheamus/Dolph matches, etc) 



Ether said:


> Taker/HHH HIAC most overrated: Good match, but no more than ****
> Underrated: Sheamus/Bryan Street Fight or Sheamus/Jericho on SD. Fuck, Sheamus has put on some good matches. If only his finishes weren't so predictable
> 
> Personal favorite: Punk/Bryan OTL


I refuse to believe having the World Champion win a majority of matches is something to complain about.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edit: Taker/Angle September 2003- ****3/4

Angle had a fucking fantastic 3-week period with two matches at ****3/4 (the Taker/Angle match and then the Lesnar/Angle ironman). 

---

Most overrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ? 
-I would say Lesnar/HHH or Lesnar/Cena. I do think Lesnar/Cena is great, but it's nowhere near the MOTY in my opinion like a lot of people seem to think... based on this thread anyway. I love the brutality and just how much of a beast Lesnar looks throughout it, but I can't say I don't get bored watching the match at points. It was an incredibly unique match in today's WWE world and I'll give it that much, but I think what it comes down to ultimately is I'm not a fan of the MMA-style like others seem to be. 

Lesnar/HHH I have problems with, but I'm not sure how highly it's regarded right now. I'd struggle to go past *** on it personally. I think Seguida (?) summed the match up perfectly and why I don't like it. It's not put on the pedestal of MOTY or among the best of the year (at least not top 5) like Lesnar/Cena is on pretty much everyone's list except mine, which is why I'm not sure which I'd say is more overrated. Lesnar/Cena I'd put considerably above Lesnar/HHH, but the difference between the general opinion of the matches and my own I think is greater for Lesnar/Cena.

Most underrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?

I want to say Punk/Jericho WM, but I have seen plenty hold it in high regard and in a range I'd consider perfect, even though I have seen a few really down on it. I'm not entirely sure on most underrated, but I think Orton/Kane from WM28 deserves more credit than it gets. I thought it was a great, ***1/2 match between the two that I could sit down and watch several times and not get bored. Solid work from the two of them, though I'm not sure how the match is rated amongst the IWC. I know for sure it's under-talked about, which I suppose is fair considering it's on the same card that has Punk/Jericho, Taker/HHH HIAC, and Rock/Cena, not to mention the whole Sheamus/Bryan fiasco that's stench was still in the air as the match was taking place live. 

PERSONAL favorite (NOT the best) ?

Honestly, I'd say for this year the best is my personal favorite (Punk vs. Bryan OTL). However, just to throw a match out there nobody would expect, one of my favorite TV matches was Barrett vs. Ryder... I think on SD a few weeks after he returned. The two worked very well together and was a solid *** match in my book. I think the first match with Sheamus on Raw was better and Barrett's best match since his return, but that Ryder match is a really fun watch for me and probably my favorite Barrett match since his return, as well as one of my favorite TV matches of the year (that I remember anyway  ).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Overrated : The Rock vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : **** 1/2*

Underrated : John Cena vs Kane (Ambulance Match ; EC 2012) : **** 1/4*

Personal Favorite : Triple H vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2012) : ***** 1/4*

Cena vs Kane is a GOOD MATCH DAMNIT!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think most do rate Rock/Cena at/around ***1/2. I know I do, anyway. I would probably put Rock/Cena as most overrated myself if I saw more people rating it what Rock316AE rated it.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I agree that Lesnar/HHH is *** at best

Rock/Cena *** 1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Barrett/Ryder from 9/28?

Yeah, Cena/Kane Ambulance is good. ***.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hailsabin said:


> Barrett/Ryder from 9/28?


Yep. Here it is for anyone wanting to kill 3 minutes:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hmm. Interesting selection. I only have it at *. Was a moderately lengthed squash. 

It still was loads better than Show/Orton on that show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I loved the pace and the back and fourth action. Just an awesome fun 3 minute match I could literally sit back and watch anytime. Barrett's backbreaker and that clothesline at the end on Ryder were both sick. Ryder sold The Souvenir like death, and I loved it. 

I don't really have anything bad to say about the match, besides the fact... well... it only goes on 3 minutes.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd take a look at it because I'm a big Ryder fan, but I can't stand Barrett so... Decisions, decisions.... I'll watch it before class tomorrow 

We need more people like us in the GOAT forum, honestly. We need a more knowledgeable and less Rock-Austin draw war based perspective on things. I wanna see greatness judged by in-ring prowess and mic skills (ACTUAL MIC SKILLS) , not on ratings (because it makes absolutely no sense to judge it on that). 

On a side note, I love this overrated/underrated game, I'm gonna start asking the question about everything from now on


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I had some Rock mark telling me in the other thread that Rock was always a better technical wrestler than Austin, what a joke


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> I loved the pace and the back and fourth action. Just an awesome fun 3 minute match I could literally sit back and watch anytime. Barrett's backbreaker and that clothesline at the end on Ryder were both sick. Ryder sold The Souvenir like death, and I loved it.
> 
> I don't really have anything bad to say about the match, besides the fact... well... it only goes on 3 minutes.


Yeah, it's good stuff for what was given. Shows me that a match of decent length between the two would be worth a watch. Both are underrated workers, imo.

Length doesn't always matter however. (you'll like this example) Danielson vs Sandow from the past Smackdown was (Y). Only 4:55. I have it at **. I want another match asap.



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I'd take a look at it because I'm a big Ryder fan, but I can't stand Barrett so... Decisions, decisions.... I'll watch it before class tomorrow
> 
> We need more people like us in the GOAT forum, honestly. We need a more knowledgeable and less Rock-Austin draw war based perspective on things. I wanna see greatness judged by in-ring prowess and mic skills (ACTUAL MIC SKILLS) , not on ratings (because it makes absolutely no sense to judge it on that).
> 
> On a side note, I love this overrated/underrated game, I'm gonna start asking the question about everything from now on


This thread is a diamond in the "rough" for the WWE section. "Rough" implies the copious amounts of shit that is discussed on a daily basis in said section.

Yeah, go for it. You have a knack for asking the right questions in here and always sparking a discussion, haha. 



Ether said:


> I had some Rock mark telling me in the other thread that Rock was always a better technical wrestler than Austin, what a joke


Oh my. I'm surprised you even bothered with the topic. You know you're going to get asinine comments like that 99% of the time.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I post alot in the thread just to laugh because it just goes in a circle

Austin mark A: 316 shirt sales argument
Rock mark B: 2000 ratings argument
Austin Mark A: That wouldn't have happened without Austin
Rock mark B: Rock was always a bigger star, even as a heel

And it just goes back and forth :lmao

That thread got me thinking though, what were Austin's best pre WWE matches iyo?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that GOAT thread is awful. This is really the only WWE section I bother viewing anymore.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I'd take a look at it because I'm a big Ryder fan, but I can't stand Barrett so... Decisions, decisions.... I'll watch it before class tomorrow
> 
> We need more people like us in the GOAT forum, honestly. We need a more knowledgeable and less Rock-Austin draw war based perspective on things. I wanna see greatness judged by in-ring prowess and mic skills (ACTUAL MIC SKILLS) , not on ratings (because it makes absolutely no sense to judge it on that).


I don't know how you feel about fast paced, hard hitting 3 minute matches, but if you like em', you'll like the match.

Honestly, it's pointless to try and argue things when it comes to Rock and Austin with their marks, especially Rock marks since they have more numbers on the forums with Rock's recent returns (I have no doubt more Austin marks will come when he comes back to face Punk). I'm a big mark for both guys, but there is no arguing with them. One says Austin at his peak is the biggest draw of all time. The other says Rock in 1999 surpassed Austin, broke records, etc. "Austin brought in the AE." "Rock kept it going and surpassed Austin." blah blah blah blah blah. 

And as far as trying to change the subject to stuff when it doesn't come to drawing, it's just as fruitless of an effort. The main reason is a lot of these people who always argue about ratings will only stick to just those, ratings, numbers, etc., and to be fair, that is the only factual way to really judge someone on the GOAT list. Matches, mic work, etc. is all subjective. So they don't see a point in arguing the technical aspects of a match or promo and would rather just quote numbers from buyrates, ratings, quotes from Meltzer, and all that stuff. I'd like to see things a little more subjective based though as the numbers have been argued to the death not just in that thread, but for the last year or so.

Edit:


> Yeah, it's good stuff for what was given. Shows me that a match of decent length between the two would be worth a watch. Both are underrated workers, imo.
> 
> Length doesn't always matter however. (you'll like this example) Danielson vs Sandow from the past Smackdown was . Only 4:55. I have it at **. I want another match asap.


Really liked the match. **1/2 for me. Still wanted a beard-pulling tug-of-war between the two. :lmao Would've been ********** if that happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His work with the Dangerous Alliance in WCW of course. That's where the gold is. Oh, and Hollywood Blonds too. Granted one of their tag title defenses vs Arn Anderson & Paul Roma sucks. I blame Roma.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Ether said:


> I had some Rock mark telling me in the other thread that Rock was always a better technical wrestler than Austin, what a joke


Is that the same guy who called Rock a better tag team wrestler then Austin to? I had a browse at the tread yesterday and someone said that, Couldn't believe anyone in there right mind could think that. 

Since you'r all talking about over rated and under rated matches. I think Miz vs Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes vs Sin Cara is under rated it was a good matches from what i can remember, and also I'm not sure if it counts but Seth Rollins vs Cody Rhodes from Fort Pierce is very good.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Yeah it was :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> His work with the Dangerous Alliance in WCW of course. That's where the gold is. Oh, and Hollywood Blonds too. Granted one of their tag title defenses vs Arn Anderson & Paul Roma sucks. I blame Roma.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12209700-post734.html

Put that thread to rest.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Ether said:


> Yeah it was :lmao


Haha if i remember right i think he said he had never seen Austin in his wcw/ecw days and didn't even know he and brian Pillman where once a tag team. He was basing his points from a match he saw on youtube from an episode of Raw.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

*Most underrated*: 
Kane/Orton at ER. Not a GREAT match by any means, but a really good and entertaining one that was immediately forgotten due to being on a PPV with 3 separate ****1/4+ matches. I almost wanted to say Regal/Ambrose, but it's FCW -- can't expect everyone to have that on their best of lists. 

*Most overrated*: 
Rock/Cena. I'm not even sure I have this one at ***. One of the most disappointing matches in recent years. 

*Favorite*: 
Lesnar/Cena. Most rewatchable match for me. I never get sick of it. It's absolutely an alien match that was dropped in our laps by benevolent wrestling gods as a reward for putting up with the Brodus Clayishness of today's WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12209700-post734.html
> 
> Put that thread to rest.


:mark:

LEGIT


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ether said:


> That thread got me thinking though, what were Austin's best pre WWE matches iyo?


v Dustin Rhodes (Halloween Havoc 91)
w/ Larry Zbyszko v Windham/Dustin (SuperBrawl 92)
w/ Rude/Anderson v Windham/Dustin/Steamboat (Pro 4/4/92)
WarGames (WrestleWar 92)
v Steamboat (Clash 20)
Blondes v Steamboat/Douglas (Clash 1/13/93)
Blondes v Bagwell/2 Cold Scorpio (Worldwide 5/8/93)
w/Vader v Flair/Anderson (WCWSN 11/13/93)
v Steamboat (Bash at the Beach 94)
v Steamboat (Clash 8/24/94)



That's his Best Of to me, but he has so much more that's really worth watching. There's Dangerous Alliance tags all over the place. Watch anything he did with Steamboat. There's a Steamboat match from 3/94 that I've seen called their best match together, but I haven't been able to get a hold of it yet. Austin matches up really well Sting in 1994. If Sting came to the WWF in 2001 when Austin was in his Best in the World SuperWorker period they could have had a really good match. Austin has a lump of good matches with Barry Windham in 92, but I didn't really find one that hit a home run for me. Still definitely, definitely worth checking out. Blondes have ton of other really good stuff, but I don't like it a much as the above. Anything with Steamboat/Douglas (except that cage match piece a shit that I hate) or Bagwell/Scorpio is good. v Flair and Arn from the 6/93 Clash I may have listed if not for the terrible finish. The Arn/Roma tags are good shit too. I can't name anything from ECW because I haven't seen 90decimalpoint% of his run there, but he had singles matches with Mikey Whipwreck right? Mikey is awesome so those had to be good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was bored out of my mind by the Blonds vs Arn/Roma. Normally I looked to early 90's WCW tag scene to deliver. In that one it didn't for me.

his tag w/Flair vs Sting & Steamboat from Saturday Night 7/30/94 deserves a mention. It's on Steamboat's set iirc.

I honestly think Austin only worked a few matches in ECW. Maybe just the two that are known (vs Whipwreck, and vs Whipwreck & Sandman) Yep. Thumbed through all the ECW shows from when he joined till he was in the WWF and he only worked those two matches. He mostly did promos during his stint there.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That 94 tag is pretty great actually, yeah.

I had no idea in hell he had so little matches in ECW. I thought I'd only seen like 10% of it when I've probably seen all of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Most overrated match of the year:

Cena/Rock from WM deserves a mention no doubt. It simply isn't good. At all. Crowd on TV sucked for the most part too. Rock looked like he was dying half way into it. They sat in rest holds 90% of the time. Kane/Orton earlier in the night was superior. A year long, unbelievably SHIT build and we get a terrible match. Seeing this get ratings of *** and above makes it overrated as hell to me.

Punk/Jericho ER - Its a good match, but certainly not great, and absolutely in no way, shape or form better than their classic WM match. Despite being in Punk's hometown, like WM for Rock/Cena, the crowd sucked on TV. Every now and then they'd pick up, usually to pop for a weapon spot. Part of the match was a little dull too.

And underrated:

Hmmm... not really sure. I think every match that's been good has been given props by everyone here near enough. Ok, some people don't like some matches as much as others, but not really to the point of being underrated unless you just count one or two people's opinions.

Personal favourite match:

Bryan Vs Punk OTL, and likely the best match of the year for me too. Still need to re-watch HIAC... HHH/Taker HIAC. Not the HIAC PPV. Watched Show/Sheamus last night again while I had no internet. Nice to see pretty much everyone enjoying it. Finishing stretch was awesome. Oh yeah, Punk/Bryan. Awesome, awesome contest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only worked 2 matches with the company and still had a more memorable run than a good portion of the roster. Steve sure knew how to make an impact in the biz.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ether said:


> what were Austin's best pre WWE matches iyo?


Love both Rock and Austin but Austin is the better in-ring worker in my opinion. I can see how someone would prefer Rock's style or he just plain entertains them more than Austin or even a Benoit in the ring but comments like him being a better technical wrestler are too much. Austin in WCW - I featured some of Austin's best WCW work in my greatest matches list over a month ago. I believe all the WCW material here is worth checking out. 



Spoiler: Austin match list













I decided to put a little list together some of the greatest matches of Stone Cold Steve Austin's legendary career. The matches were chosen based on a combination of my personal favorites, the important moments, and the biggest-most hyped main events. Sometimes career defining moments trumps "technical" match quality and I consider that in the list order. There are only WWF/E and WCW matches on my list but feel free to mention any ECW, USWA, or WCW and WWF matches you believe should be on the list. Austin's had so many quality wrestling matches and big time showdowns throughout his career so it wouldn't surprise me. 

It is rewarding as a Steve Austin fan to watch his in-ring performances evolve from his WCW days to his tenure in the WWF/E. In WCW he had much more technical wrestling style and bumped huge for his babyface opponents as a conniving heel. As you will see in my list he did a fantastic job in quite a few tag team matches in WCW. Whether he was teaming with fellow Hollywood Blond Flyin' Brian Pillman or a Dangerous Alliance stable mate, it was sure to be in a ring full talented workers because the opponents were usually equally as good with guys like Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes, and Ricky Steamboat. Speaking of Steamboat, he and Austin had amazing chemistry with each other. Austin's first great series of singles matches were with The Dragon. The pacing of their matches and the flow in their wrestling exchanges is a beauty to watch. 

Austin's WWF tenure is certainly special to look back on. His best rivalries ever are represented in this list such as Austin/McMahon, Austin/Rock, Austin/Hart and Austin/Triple H. I love how the Austin/McMahon rivalry was at the center of a lot of Austin's biggest matches. The stakes felt higher due to the awesome Austin/McMahon story arc and classic moment after classic moment happening every week between the Boss and The Rattlesnake. I loved how Austin had to deal with defying McMahon's authority and constantly embarrassing him to Austin having to fight for the WWF Championship with Undertaker, The Rock, Dude Love, Kane, etc. 

Austin's 2001 in-ring work is quite possibly could be the single best year, not only of Austin's in-ring career, but of any wrestler in company history. Take a look at the classics he had that year with the likes of Triple H, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Undertaker and of course, The Rock. His heel persona and WWF Title run was pure entertainment. Austin was just on fire that year from an overall entertainment perspective. Not taking anything away from his 1997 because he was excellent that year too, if not better. So Austin's most captivating, memorable as well as great wrestling matches represented.



*Steve Austin's 50 Greatest Matches


50. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Mr. McMahon (Steel Cage Match) – WWF St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999 

49. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock – WWF Rebellion 2001

48. Triple H vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (No Holds Barred) – WWF No Mercy 1999

47. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega – WWF In Your House 20: No Way Out of Texas 1998

46. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock (Steel Cage Match) – WWF Raw 04/02/2001

45. Kane vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin – WWF Raw 06/29/1998

44. Hollywood Blonds vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson (2 out of 3 Falls Match) – WCW Clash Of The Champions XXIII 06/16/1993

43. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi (Hell In A Cell) – WWF Armageddon 2000 

42. Stunning Steve Austin vs. Dustin Rhodes – WCW Halloween Havoc 1991

41. Sting & Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair & Stunning Steve Austin - WCW Saturday Night 07/30/1994


40. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs. Hollywood Blonds - WCW Worldwide 03/27/1993

39. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho – WWF King Of The Ring 2001

38. The Two-Man Power Trip vs. The Brothers Of Destruction (Champions vs. Champions) – WWF Backlash 2001

37. Stunning Steve Austin vs. Barry Windham (2 out of 3 Falls) – WCW Saturday Night 05/09/1992

36. Stunning Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat - WCW Bash At The Beach 1994

35. Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin – WWF RAW 01/08/2001

34. Stunning Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko vs. Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham – WCW SuperBrawl 1992

33. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit – WWF Raw 05/28/2001

32. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock – WWF In Your House: Degeneration X

31. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam – WWF No Mercy 2001


30. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker – WWF Raw 06/28/1999

29. Ravishing Rick Rude & Stunning Steve Austin vs. Sting & Ricky Steamboat – WCW Clash Of The Champions XVIII 01/21/1992

28. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs. Hollywood Blonds – WCW Clash of the Champions XXII 01/13/1993

27. Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega (Caribbean Strap Match) - WWF In Your House 8: Beware of Dog 05/28/1996

26. Stunning Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat - WCW Saturday Night 08/01/1992

25. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock – WWF WrestleMania XV

24. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker – WWF Judgment Day 2001

23. Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Vader – WWF In Your House 13: Final Four 1997

22. Stone Cold Steve Austin & Kurt Angle vs. The Rock & Chris Jericho – WWF Smackdown 11/15/2001

21. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels – WWF King of the Ring 1997


20. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker – WWF SummerSlam 1998

19. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart – WWF In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker 1997

18. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle – WWF Unforgiven 2001

17. The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (First Blood “End Of An Era” Match) – WWF Fully Loaded 1999

16. The Hart Foundation vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & L.O.D. – WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede 1997

15. Shawn Michaels vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin – WWF WrestleMania XIV 

14. Stunning Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat - WCW Clash Of The Champions XXVIII 08/28/1994

13. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock (No Holds Barred) – WWF Backlash 1999

12. The Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting’s Squadron (War Games) – WCW WrestleWar 1992

11. Stone Cold Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith – WWF RAW 05/26/1997


10. The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin – WWE WrestleMania XIX 

9. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Dude Love – WWF Over The Edge 1998 

8. The Two-Man Power Trip vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho – WWF RAW 05/21/2001

7. Team WWF vs. WCW/ECW Alliance (Winner Takes All) – WWF Survivor Series 2001

6. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H (3 Stages of Hell) – WWF No Way Out 2001

5. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle – WWF SummerSlam 2001

4. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit – WWF Smackdown 05/31/2001

3. Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin – WWF Survivor Series 1996 

2. The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (No Disqualification) – WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

1. Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Submission Match) – WWF WrestleMania 13*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for that Clique, i remember your original thread and was going to check out a couple of matches i hadn't seen, thanks for the reminder, im going to try and check this one out:

Stunning Steve Austin vs. Barry Windham (2 out of 3 Falls) – WCW Saturday Night 05/09/1992


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Man, there was so much blood in that War Games '92 match. That Austin-Windham 2/3 falls match is on Dailymotion, but in different parts, even though each part is about five minutes long.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Most Overrated- The Undertaker vs Triple Hell In A Cell- Wrestlemania 28*
A lot of people complain about HIAC matches not utilizing the structure much these days. Yet somehow, for a match that featured probably about 2 cell spots, a lot of people have being handing out 5 snowflakes and MOTY left and right. This match could have told the same story had it been a regular no DQ match. The selling points here were the 20 or so chair shots from HHH, not using the cell as a weapon. Was it an emotional match? Of course. But the cell seemed obsolete after the first 5 minutes. And this is a Hell In A Cell match. Maybe if it was a chairs match I would have considered it MOTY or even a MOTYC. The cell just served no purpose and the match could have been done without it, that's why I'm hard on this match.

****1/2
*

I really can't think of a most underrated match. A lot of matches get the recognition that they deserve around here.

As for my personal favourite, that's a tough one. While 2012 have been a very good year for wrestling in WWE, no match really jumps out from the rest. Maybe CM Punk vs John Cena MITB spoiled me. That match just really stood out from the rest and blew everything out the water. But this year, there have been some great matches but nothing really stands out. The match I really, really enjoyed this year though was CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan from Super Smackdown.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I never really get the whole argument about the cell not being used. The purpose of a HIAC match is to simply keep people INSIDE. Nothing more.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> I never really get the whole argument about the cell not being used. The purpose of a HIAC match is to simply keep people INSIDE. Nothing more.


To me I see no reason in digging for weapons under the ring when you got this entire 20 foot mesh of steel as a weapon to use. The Cell keeps them inside, and hurts the shit out of them too. It's like a cage match. Would you watch a cage match just to see two guys go technical in it? Of course not. The cage would have served no purpose, then. 

But i always say that the HIAC is what the cage match should have been. Two people locked inside, with no chance of escaping yet somehow the participants always see the need to go outside. Why? I'll never understand.

Speaking of HIAC, am I the only one that enjoyed Punk/Ryback for what is was? You know what, I'll go with that as my most underrated match. It told a damn great story and utilized the cell (given the time, it made good use of it). Sure, it's one of the worst HIAC Matches of all time (mostly because of the ending) but it was exciting and well paced.

I loved seeing Punk desperately struggle to escape the cell. Really drives home the point of being locked inside with someone with no escape. I give it 3 stars to be honest. So there you have it, my most underrated match of the year. CM Punk vs Ryback Hell In A Cell. Underrated because a lot of peoepl can't seem to get past the fucked up booking.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Please tell me you were exaggerating.


To an extent, yeah. I just don't care for tag matches usually because it's always the same shit. Some back and forth action, a couple of tags then face starts getting beat down by the heels for 10 minutes, he gets close to tagging his partner but for some unknown reason, ref turns around at the last minute which brings the face back into the heels corner, then he manages to put them down with an Enziguri, DDT or something and finally the hot tag comes with the fresh partner who destroys every heel in sight. Then everybody gets involved inside the ring and the faces usually win by performing their finishers. That's how 99% of tag matches go and I am about to fall asleep most of the time when the heels are in control. Such a played out formula. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy exciting tag matches that are a bit better paced and feature more action such as Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit, which is one of my favorite matches ever.



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Most overrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?
> Most underrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?
> 
> PERSONAL favorite (NOT the best) ?
> ...


Most overrated: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) - ** - HATE that match. SuperPunk in full effect and all that bullshit with AJ just ruins it for me. I would also say their OTL match but I can see why somebody would rate it highly.

Most underrated: Kane vs Randy Orton (Extreme Rules) - ***1/2 - A very good match that gets overlooked by the superior Sheamus/Bryan & Lesnar/Cena matches. Would have gotten more recognition in a lesser PPV most likely.

Personal favorite: The Rock vs John Cena - **** - I don't know about everyone else but I loved this match. Crowd is on fire and the match has that big time feel. Rock runs out of energy pretty fast which leads to some restholds but it didn't bother me much. I was just enjoying the picture of two greats going at it. And the finish is also the definition of a "feel good" one for me, unlike 95% of the great matches this year.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Most overrated: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) - ** - HATE that match. SuperPunk in full effect and all that bullshit with AJ just ruins it for me. I would also say their OTL match but I can see why somebody would rate it highly.
> 
> Most underrated: Kane vs Randy Orton (Extreme Rules) - ***1/2 - A very good match that gets overlooked by the superior Sheamus/Bryan & Lesnar/Cena matches. Would have gotten more recognition in a lesser PPV most likely.
> 
> Personal favorite: The Rock vs John Cena - **** - I don't know about everyone else but I loved this match. Crowd is on fire and the match has that big time feel. Rock runs out of energy pretty fast which leads to some restholds but it didn't bother me much. I was just enjoying the picture of two greats going at it. And the finish is also the definition of a "feel good" one for me, unlike 95% of the great matches this year.


Finally someone else who sees Punk's face run as a complete Super-Man run. The worst was TLC 2011 for me though. Punk's Superman performance in TLC 2011 gives Austin's Superman performance in NWO '98 a run for its money.I also find the punk/D-Bryan series to be overrated (except for the Super Smackdown match, enjoyed that one) I don't even remember their OTL match and I'm sure I saw it about 2 times. 

Rock vs Cena, I shat on it alot initially but after giving it a second watch I gave a nice little rating of ***3/4. It was a good wrestling match. I was expecting an all out brawl from these two but they went out there and put on more of a slow paced, methodical match. It caught of everyone off guard. 

Given the build, it was a shitty way to go about it but it's not that bad of a wrestling match. Just nowhere near my favourites of all time though or this year as a matter of fact lol. Can't say I agree with you on the finish being a "feel good moment" I wanted Cena to over. Hey, what can I say. I'm a huge Cena mark.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> To an extent, yeah. I just don't care for tag matches usually because it's always the same shit. Some back and forth action, a couple of tags then face starts getting beat down by the heels for 10 minutes, he gets close to tagging his partner but for some unknown reason, ref turns around at the last minute which brings the face back into the heels corner, then he manages to put them down with an Enziguri, DDT or something and finally the hot tag comes with the fresh partner who destroys every heel in sight. Then everybody gets involved inside the ring and the faces usually win by performing their finishers. That's how 99% of tag matches go and I am about to fall asleep most of the time when the heels are in control. Such a played out formula. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy exciting tag matches that are a bit better paced and feature more action such as Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit, which is one of my favorite matches ever.


You've let the lazy, formulaic style of WWE tag team matches over the past few years give you a jaded outlook. There are so many brilliant tag team matches out there. Even some lesser matches are gems like APA vs WGTT from NWO '04 or Primetime Players vs Alex Riley/Percy Watson NXT 2/28/12. A good majority of the time I'd probably take a tag team match over a singles match. The psychology is so damn good. It's some of the most strategic work that can be done in wrestling. Tag team wrestling + southern style might be the best combo in the whole of the biz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Finally someone else who sees Punk's face run as a complete Super-Man run. The worst was TLC 2011 for me though. Punk's Superman performance in TLC 2011 gives Austin's Superman performance in NWO '98 a run for its money.I also find the punk/D-Bryan series to be overrated (except for the Super Smackdown match, enjoyed that one) I don't even remember their OTL match and I'm sure I saw it about 2 times.
> 
> Rock vs Cena, I shat on it alot initially but after giving it a second watch I gave a nice little rating of ***3/4. It was a good wrestling match. I was expecting an all out brawl from these two but they went out there and put on more of a slow paced, methodical match. It caught of everyone off guard.
> 
> Given the build, it was a shitty way to go about it but it's not that bad of a wrestling match. Just nowhere near my favourites of all time though or this year as a matter of fact lol. Can't say I agree with you on the finish being a "feel good moment" I wanted Cena to over. Hey, what can I say. I'm a huge Cena mark.


Exactly. Since it's Punk, few will admit it but it's true. MITB was superman on steroids. He was in a LeBell Lock with a kendo stick and not only did he no-sell it, he took the stick and escaped the hold using it with only one hand. I mean, sure, Cena has been a huge superman several times in the past but he gets shitted on for it while Punk got away with it and everyone was sucking his balls for his GR8 PERFORMANCEZ~! (not a shot at anyone in specific).

I am a Cena fan too (although I was a dick about him a few months ago) but his character is beyond stale and him beating The Rock clean would have been a new low. 



Hailsabin said:


> You've let the lazy, formulaic style of WWE tag team matches over the past few years give you a jaded outlook. There are so many brilliant tag team matches out there. Even some lesser matches are gems like APA vs WGTT from NWO '04 or Primetime Players vs Alex Riley/Percy Watson NXT 2/28/12. A good majority of the time I'd probably take a tag team match over a singles match. The psychology is so damn good. It's some of the most strategic work that can be done in wrestling. Tag team wrestling + southern style might be the best combo in the whole of the biz.


Considering that I watch WWE's stuff, this is what I face most of the time. As I said, not all tag team wrestling is that, but in WWE this is what we get and therefore, I'm not a big fan of it.

Based on this post, you must be a huge fan of Teddy Long, playa!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Agree totally. CM Punk was the new superman during his face run. Choke2Death has already mentioned his comebacks against D-Bryan at MITB but there was also some superman comebacks against Y2J (Extreme Rules). Y2J hit two codebreakers (including one with a chair) and Walls of Jericho. In contrast, Punk hit one GTS and it was all over. In the Triple Threat match against Kane and D-Bryan, Punk was chokeslammed once and put in a Yes! lock but that wasn't enough. Punk recovers and gives Kane one GTS and wins.

I know that top faces are booked this way but I thought I would bring this up


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Considering that I watch WWE's stuff, this is what I face most of the time. As I said, not all tag team wrestling is that, but in WWE this is what we get and therefore, I'm not a big fan of it.
> 
> Based on this post, you must be a huge fan of Teddy Long, playa!


You seen any of the Rockers/Brainbusters matches from '89? That might restore some faith in WWF/WWE tag team wrestling for you.

Teddy Long...because of DOOM?

And, I have to throw my two cents into the whole "Superman" face winning discussion. I hate that term. So, so much. It's a common theme in wrestling. It always has been. I'm not saying it's ALWAYS good or exceptable, but come on. Everytime a face is in danger and somehow finds a way to come back and win it has to be classified as a "superman" type victory and/or burial for their opponent? It's a classic wrestling 101 right there. The face is on the brink of defeat only to summon up all the will they have left to pull out the big duke. So many Wargames are even based off this principal. If Punk's match vs Danielson @ MITB was an example of a "Superman" win then I must be crazy because I don't see it. _At all_. He wasn't like Hogan where he took 8 minutes of punishment then hit two moves to win. (that was even acceptable back in the 80's given the way matches went down via WWF) Oh no Punk can't be put in a finishing submission hold without tapping out. Oh man he's so the new "superman" face blah blah blah. So yeah, no in agreement one bit with that. Not because it's CM Punk and i'm a mark or any crap like that either. I often support Cena in the same sense too because if Cena wins a match then it is automatically "SUPERMAN DOES IT AGAIN, WHAT A SHOCK", etc, garb. Enough of this crap already. Use it to say that's why Cena/Miz I Quit sucked. But, not for matches that actually mattered.

Oh and these face comebacks are WAY more tolerable than those matches where heels have to always cheat to win. Which is all the fuckin time in WWE. God forbid a heel can win clean often. Now that's gotten old. Oh look a distraction, heel wins. Oh look he hit him from behind, heel wins. Grabbed the tights, low blow, exposed turnbuckle, heel wins. How about a straight up pinfall in a match that isn't a squash? You know that would really be awesome. So glad to hear Show won the World Championship clean. Damn that was refreshing from the general norm.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gonna have to agree with Cody on this one. Will probably be called 'lol punk fan' but the superman thing is bullshit and gets thrown around anytime a face makes a comeback in a match. People have been in far worse subs than that LeBell Lock at MITB. I've seen guys like Rock/Austin/Cena/Orton/Trips in submissions for about 3 minutes without tapping. And the TLC match actually made for a really good story that helped kick off Punk's reign. Heroic comebacks are part of wrestling and with good reason. Now stuff like Cena/Miz from OTL '11? That's a bad ending, but none of Punk's matches ended like that. There's actually a comeback portion of the match where the face starts to comeback and it moves back to an even playing field, which is fine.

Watch the fucking Henry series and then try to say he's a superman...seriously.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Have we stooped low enough to consider CM Punk, who was among the most vulnerable top faces in memory, a superman face?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Comebacks are all based upon story. That's why I incorporated the Hogan reference in the post above. You can really tell the difference when a match is key as far as making a comeback feel compelling opposed to a random face winning in the blink of an eye just for the hell of it.

Apparently you can't be a face who kicks out or survives a finisher in this day and age without having that moniker thrust upon you.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I have no problem with the comebacks but it's the hypocrisy behind it all.

"Oh Cena's this big fucking Superman who kicks out of everything, let me go proceed to ride CM Punk's cock as I jizz over his match with Daniel Bryan at MITB"

It's just that someone people are just too blind out there, it's either that or they can't form their opinion and are just riding the wave. One guy said "Cena is superman" and the rest follow suit. How is it people could call Cena Superman and not realize Punk wasn't any different?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Neither one are. That's the simple answer to all of this.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Only superman performances I can think of out of Cena is the Cena/Miz match and perhaps the Cena/Orton BP '09 match, depending on how you see it. I don't like the ending but I don't think it's as bad as the the Cena/Miz one.

Examples of matches people say Cena puts on a superman performance during, plz.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Breaking Point is a fantastic match though. That shouldn't be listed, Brye. 

Someone will mention all of Cena's matches vs Big Show as a superman performance. Probably the obvious answer.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Didn't think it was possible to stay awake through those Show/Cena matches to even know who won. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Didn't think it was possible to stay awake through those Show/Cena matches to even know who won. :side:


Haha. Some people really do hate the majority of their matches.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

"Superman performances" can be fun sometimes. I love it when Taker would make those big comebacks in tag team matches where he gives everyone his signature moves before the finish. Sting and Lex had fiery comebacks against Flair that lit up a crowd and made you feel this was going to be the final comeuppance for Flair. 

However, sometimes when Cena does it the build doesn't make the comeback feel as special to me. Sometimes a comeback like that could make what happened before sour instead finally the heel is going to get his ass handed to him. Examples of Cena comebacks I didn't like - Cena/Orton I Quit Match (I agree fantastic match but still wasn't digging the comeback), Nexus tag at SummerSlam '10, Cena/Miz I Quit Match, and quite a few TV matches in general over the years (usually tag matches). Cena's babyface performance overall in the Lesnar match at Extreme Rules is tremendous but I can understand why people hate the finish even though Lesnar's brutality and presence, and Cena taking all of that punishment forced many of us in Allstate Arena to root for the hero. Cena comebacks that I love are his LMS with Umaga and I Quit Match with JBL to name a couple. I even enjoyed the character work he did in his Survivor Series match with Jericho a few years ago.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Haha. Some people really do hate the majority of their matches.


I like a few of them but I remember some of the ones in the '09 series going on about 5 mins too long.



Clique said:


> "Superman performances" can be fun sometimes. I love it when Taker would make those big comebacks in tag team matches where he gives everyone his signature moves before the finish. Sting and Lex had fiery comebacks against Flair that lit up a crowd and made you feel this was going to be the final comeuppance for Flair.
> 
> However, sometimes when Cena does it the build doesn't make the comeback feel as special to me. Sometimes a comeback like that could make what happened before sour instead finally the heel is going to get his ass handed to him. Examples of Cena comebacks I didn't like - Cena/Orton I Quit Match (I agree fantastic match but still wasn't digging the comeback), Nexus tag at SummerSlam '10, Cena/Miz I Quit Match, and quite a few TV matches in general over the years (usually tag matches). Cena's babyface performance overall in the Lesnar match at Extreme Rules is tremendous but I can understand why people hate the finish even though Lesnar's brutality and presence, and Cena taking all of that punishment forced many of us in Allstate Arena to root for the hero. Cena comebacks that I love are his LMS with Umaga and I Quit Match with JBL to name a couple. I even enjoyed the character work he did in his Survivor Series match with Jericho a few years ago.


Agreed with you. Didn't think of the Nexus tag match but I remember that now. I think the most disappointing part of that match for me was just Nexus not winning. Thought it was sort of necessary. But completely agree on the JBL and Umaga comebacks owning. Was the Jericho match the one in Boston when he came back from the neck injury? I don't think I've seen that since it happened.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Cena/Jericho match was in Boston and Cena's first match back from neck surgery. I liked the moment Cena was questioning himself on the top rope before hitting the move that led to his neck injury. Jericho did had a solid heel control segment on Cena's neck with a neckbreakers and a vice lock. It's on the World Championship DVD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I have no problem with the comebacks but it's the hypocrisy behind it all.
> 
> "Oh Cena's this big fucking Superman who kicks out of everything, let me go proceed to ride CM Punk's cock as I jizz over his match with Daniel Bryan at MITB"
> 
> It's just that someone people are just too blind out there, it's either that or they can't form their opinion and are just riding the wave. One guy said "Cena is superman" and the rest follow suit. How is it people could call Cena Superman and not realize Punk wasn't any different?


Exactly. If you have no problem with faces making unrealistic "heroic" comebacks then it's not about you, but my problem is the hypocrites that hate on Cena and say he's "superman" every time he wins yet they give one of their favorites like Punk a pass if he does something as bad.

And to continue the talk of the LeBell Lock hold, it's not that it was just a submission hold, it's the fact Bryan also did the Crossface part of it with a fucking KENDO STICK! When he lays there no-selling the move for minutes and with one hand breaks the hold, that's the definition of BURYING it. I hate that term, but in this case, it fits perfectly.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS IX: RIC FLAIR VS. TERRY FUNK I QUIT MATCH - 11/15/1989

So I just watched this classic again after not seeing it in a very long time and it's just as incredible as I remembered.



Spoiler: Funk vs. Flair Match Review/breakdown of the match



From the start you can feel the hate between Funk and Flair. Physical attacks by both funk and flair. Flair with ruthless chops and Funk doing everything he can to put as much physical pain as possible onto flair. Starts with immediate action with no feeling out process which signifies the process of the I Quit match. The emotion from the start is incredible. 

Terry Funk's performance in this match is one of the greatest I've ever seen. Funk hits a neckbreaker on flair to gain the advantage and just starts to destroy the neck of flair. Screaming at flair with the mic "Remember your neck!" Funk hits a vicious piledriver in the ring and an absolutely ruthless piledriver on the floor one right after another and the selling of the offense is incredible by flair. Funk continues his offense on flair asking for flair to quit and flair will not. Funk sets up a table to end flair and flair turns the tables on funk with desperate chops and punches. Funk sells Flair's attacks like they are the most painful attacks he's ever felt. 

Flair once he gains the advantage just tries to destroy Funk, and Funk trying to carry on the family legacy just keeps coming back to fight him. Then Flair begins to work on the leg, flair places Funk's leg across the rope and the pop he gets is incredible. Flair works over the leg fantastically, and funk sells like he has a dead leg. Funk will not go down because he's giving it his all, even after ruthless shots and his leg gives out on him.

We get an incredible moment between Funk and Flair by the ropes where they are just punching and chopping at eachother. Then Flair locks in the figure four. Funk screams that he will never quit, Funk screams that his leg is breaking and says I quit.



Absolutely incredible match, Funk and Flair left me speechless. *****

Link: http://www.wwe.com/videos/clash-of-the-champions-ix-ric-flair-vs-terry-funk-11151989-25058774


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Cannot agree with the notion of Punk/Y2J at mania being better than the ER match.

The crowd was dead for almost the entire mania match and only came to life towards the end.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

From a live perspective I enjoyed Punk/Jericho considerably more at Extreme Rules (still haven't watched TV version of this show) more than their encounter in Miami.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best Cena/Show match is still that Smackdown 09 match. Shame most of their PPV encounters are amongst their worst, because with the right setting and motivation they do have good chemistry.

Funk/Flair series in 89 is incredible, and when you factor in the 5 Steamboat matches on top of that Flair's year is stacked beyond belief. Both men are great showmen and performers whilst still having a workrate wrestling brain to make the theatrics and charisma part of the developing story, and both men have the subtle nuances in their craft down to a tee to really sell a feud and angle. Funk to me is the most naturally talented wrestler of all time, in terms of the ability to just know how to wrestle and act in any given setting against any given opponent and never fail to not deliver.

Wrote something about Cena's comeback a few pages back:



> I am a much bigger fan of Cena than most, but I'm not about to overlook when he's at his worst, e.g the I Quit match vs Miz which was just the Cena comeback done without the savvyness it usually has.
> 
> I think a poster by the name of Walk-In summed it up best. In US wrestling you'll always get the babyface comeback which focuses on sequences of moves to even the score after enduring a gruelling workover, this is the same whether its Hogan, Cena, Austin, Rock, Lawler, Sting, Orton, Punk, Mysterio, Eddie etc. The key principle is to sell brilliantly during your workoever, to really communicate sympathy and desperation to the crowd to get them invested and to earn your comeback, to me Cena really is exceptional at this. I'm not about to say his energy burst isn't irritable given the workover which preceeds it, but to me his selling and bumping and facial expressions to sell a match during the middle sort of give him...I don't want to say 'a pass', but more along the lines of it fits the story that Cena is against the wall and needs to string a comeback together or risk losing the match, since he can't take much more punishment.
> 
> ...


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

DFUSCMAN said:


> CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS IX: RIC FLAIR VS. TERRY FUNK I QUIT MATCH - 11/15/1989
> 
> So I just watched this classic again after not seeing it in a very long time and it's just as incredible as I remembered.
> 
> ...


One of my favourite matches of all time, Best I quit match ever as well, Story tell at its best with no need for chair shoots or over the top spots. Need to watch it again but ***** seems spot on.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> "Superman performances" can be fun sometimes. I love it when Taker would make those big comebacks in tag team matches where he gives everyone his signature moves before the finish. Sting and Lex had fiery comebacks against Flair that lit up a crowd and made you feel this was going to be the final comeuppance for Flair.
> 
> However, sometimes when Cena does it the build doesn't make the comeback feel as special to me. Sometimes a comeback like that could make what happened before sour instead finally the heel is going to get his ass handed to him. Examples of Cena comebacks I didn't like - Cena/Orton I Quit Match (I agree fantastic match but still wasn't digging the comeback), Nexus tag at SummerSlam '10, Cena/Miz I Quit Match, and quite a few TV matches in general over the years (usually tag matches). Cena's babyface performance overall in the Lesnar match at Extreme Rules is tremendous but I can understand why people hate the finish even though Lesnar's brutality and presence, and Cena taking all of that punishment forced many of us in Allstate Arena to root for the hero. Cena comebacks that I love are his LMS with Umaga and I Quit Match with JBL to name a couple. I even enjoyed the character work he did in his Survivor Series match with Jericho a few years ago.


Isn't the Summerslam tag a victim of the PPV running too long? I thought I heard that which is why Cena took out Gabriel & Barrett in such a swift span.

Kudos on dropping Flair vs *any hot face at the time*. Especially Luger. That guy had his career performances thanks to Flair.



DFUSCMAN said:


> CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS IX: RIC FLAIR VS. TERRY FUNK I QUIT MATCH - 11/15/1989
> 
> So I just watched this classic again after not seeing it in a very long time and it's just as incredible as I remembered.
> 
> ...


Incredible match, indeed. Their Great American Bash '89 match is even better, imo. Watch that again if you haven't already.



Segunda Caida said:


> *Best Cena/Show match is still that Smackdown 09 match*. Shame most of their PPV encounters are amongst their worst, because with the right setting and motivation they do have good chemistry.


YES (one word sums up my response)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Don't think I've ever seen Show/Cena from SD '09.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree with Show/Cena from SD 09 is their best match together.

Here it is Brye - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8nqan_smackdown-27-02-2009-john-cena-vs-b_sport


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Omg there is a link to it. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Haven't seen that either. 

Thanks for the link. :hb

Still need to watch Show/Sheamus from the other night, too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

People need to erase the memory of 2009 being bad from their minds. I swear those guest GM's put the biggest taint on such a good year for wrestling in the WWE. I went on this weeks ago, but it still baffles me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

2009 has Smackdown being great for a good 3-4 months, but its really ECW and Superstars where the real quality shines. Raw pretty much sucked story wise and match quality wise, but ECW had Christian working his arse off against anyone and everyone, with the 2/24 Swagger title match being one of the best matches of the year (and better than HBK/Taker imo). Superstars had some really great matches from the likes of Goldust, Regal and Christian and even Smackdown came into its own with the Punk/Hardy feud and the eventual Loser Leaves Town Cage Match. The Mysterio/Jericho series was also pretty good, but I don't care for it as much as others and vastly prefer the Punk/Mysterio feud in terms of match output.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I wish I could erase some of those Raw episodes I watched from 2009 out of my mind. After WrestleMania many were just terrible. Smackdown and ECW in 2009 were really good especially when "It's...Christian" returned and when Jericho/Punk/Jeff/Morrison were drafted to the blue brand.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

1989 Flair > ALL.

Seriously, that 5 match stretch between the Steamboat matches and the Funk matches are some of the greatest matches ever, and all 5 would probably be in my top 10 WCW matches ever list. Couple those matches with the Windham matches and you have all you need to know about Ric Flair being the greatest of all time.

The guy was wrestling ***** 1/4* matches in 2005 for fuck sakes ! I was always a big fan of old man Flair, here is a list of his absolute best from 04-06 (All *** or higher, FUCK YEAH FLAIR):

Evolution 8 man tag 04
vs Shelton BL 04
W/Eugene vs La Resistance VEN 04
W/Batista vs Regal/Benoit UNF 04
vs Orton TT 04
vs Angle Raw 05
vs Carlito UNF 05 (just for all the post match greatness)
vs HHH TT 05
vs HHH SS 05
vs Flair RAW 06
MITB II
vs HHH Raw 06
vs Big Show ECW 06
vs Foley SS 06


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since we're on the topic of years, thought I'd drop this here. I'm now at the start of 2005 and Raw has been excellent while Smackdown has improved from most of 2004. I'm now downloading all the PPVs, Raw & Smackdown episodes up until the Benoit tribute and from then on, I will go back to 1997 and watch until 2002. Then when I end up at the start of 2003 which I've already watched, I'll carry on where I left off in 2007 and the plan is to continue up until Wrestlemania 25. But based on comments here, it might not be quite the nightmare it's said to be to watch the whole year of 2009 so is it recommended that I watch the whole year? I mean, Orton was the top heel so that automatically puts it above 2012 for me and after 09, I've already watched a lot of 2010 (only Raw, though) and the entirety of 2011.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Smackdown that summer was some of the most fun i've had as a wrestling fan.

I honestly didn't expect Punk to come out on top in his feud with Hardy. The feud concluded on TV which was a cool thing to see. Produced one of the best TV cage matches i've seen.

Raw as alot of people like to point out took a nosedive after backlash, that Cena/Orton feud was horrible. They turned orton into a complete bitch, and there was also the DX reunion that nobody asked for.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Like 6 days late on this, but top 5 WM main events:

1. Rock/Austin WM17
2. Benoit/HHH/Michaels WM20
3. Taker/Michaels WM26
4. Cena/Michaels WM23
5. Taker/Edge WM24

I haven't watched any of the Hogan matches in a few years, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh god, Raw in 2009. Urgh. I went to the TV tapings in Sheffield in November. Raw on Monday, ECW & SD on Tuesday. Monday was horrible. Just horrible. Highlight was seeing Chavo get knocked out by Ricky Hatton though . LOLChavoSucksBAAAAD. Tuesday was incredible fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> 2009 has Smackdown being great for a good 3-4 months, but its really ECW and Superstars where the real quality shines. Raw pretty much sucked story wise and match quality wise, but ECW had Christian working his arse off against anyone and everyone, with the 2/24 Swagger title match being one of the best matches of the year (and better than HBK/Taker imo). Superstars had some really great matches from the likes of Goldust, Regal and Christian and even Smackdown came into its own with the Punk/Hardy feud and the eventual Loser Leaves Town Cage Match. The Mysterio/Jericho series was also pretty good, but I don't care for it as much as others and vastly prefer the Punk/Mysterio feud in terms of match output.


Smackdown from the draft - the rest of the year was pretty darn good. More so in the Spring-Summer than Fall-Winter, but I was a fan of it all.

ECW & Superstars, aka the shows that everyone wants to see to forget about, were apart of the year too. RAW might have been crap for the majority, but dammit you can't say that entire year was a bust with the quality of matches that those shows were pumping out. ECW in 2009 has prompted me to eventually start a project where I go over and watch all the awesome stuff that came out of it. And subsequently the rest of 2010 too since it ended early.

Flair vs Angle from RAW in 2005 rings as ":mark:" in my mind. I have to find that one too.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

It is possible to pinpoint the exact moment of the decline of the blue brand and for me it was Takers return in 09.

Others may disagree but for me the show never recovered from that. I was legit pissed with what they did to punk.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

When was the last time Raw was actually good from a consistent match or story standpoint? 2004? Even that had the Kane/Lita shit and Eugene stuff too. 07 was pretty good for sometime, I guess. But you have the Illegitimate Son angle and not many memorable matches. I'll plead ignorance on 2005, but Raw has really kinda sucked for years. 02-03 Raw is possibly my least favourite period of mainstream wrestling TV ever (well, probably not compared to 2000 WCW). And Brian Gewirtz was the head of writing in all this shit? I'm sorry but thank fuck he's no longer in that position. 

worthless side-note: I always thought it was Brian "Gerwitz" up until now. I've read it wrong every single time for years.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks for bringing up the Punk/Taker feud. Gives me a great reason to watch 09 and SD in 2010 as well. Seeing Punk get buried... :mark:

And I'm now at the end of Jan 05 and every Raw has been great. Helps that Eugene's injury rids us of his stupid ass gimmick for a while at least. Hope the rest of the year is as great and I expect that with a fresh Cena, Kurt Angle being drafted and HHH/Flair feuding. Not to mention Edge's rise towards the main event. I think 2005 and 2006 might be the nominations for the "last great Raw" years. Maybe 2008 too but I'm a long way from getting there now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RAW 2007 was garbage pardon the first few months having a match or two worth checking out. Cena, Michaels, Edge, & Orton. Not a surprise they were the focus of the show.

Jeff Hardy vs Shelton Benjamin had a solid TV match in September. There's a late part of the year highlight.

Ken Kennedy vs Carlito went 10 or 15 minutes on a show that year. No thanks.

 what's w/the Punk hate, C2D?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> And I'm now at the end of Jan 05 and every Raw has been great. Helps that Eugene's injury rids us of his stupid ass gimmick for a while at least. Hope the rest of the year is as great and I expect that with a fresh Cena, Kurt Angle being drafted and HHH/Flair feuding. Not to mention Edge's rise towards the main event. I think 2005 and 2006 might be the nominations for the "last great Raw" years. Maybe 2008 too but I'm a long way from getting there now.


2005 Raw is such a blindspot for me that I'm considering tacking down full episodes. I've seen a lot of the best stuff (and supposed 'Best' stuff), but there's a lot of stuff with guys like Christian that I haven't seen.



Hailsabin said:


> Ken Kennedy vs Carlito went 10 or 15 minutes on a show that year. No thanks.


:lmao oh shit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wasn't HBK/Shelton from 05?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah it was.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> what's w/the Punk hate, C2D?


lol, I just never liked him (save for 2011's summer but anyone would have gotten my support in his position). He's absolutely unlikable. Even more so since his hair has became short and his entire torso became tattooed up. I always base my judgment on somebody's performance when they are at their job but Punk has just been hard for me to like. That aside, I find him overrated as a wrestler. He is undoubtedly capable of putting on great matches (although he needs a quality opponent) and I give credit where it's due when it comes to that part. Then on the mic, I think he's a good talker but annoying to listen to. And his time at the top in this year has been unbearable which has in turn made it impossible for me to like him. I enjoyed him to an extent in small doses and when he was speaking the truth last summer about the company but otherwise, just not for me...

Still, where it matters the most is in the ring and when he puts on a good match, I can easily give credit. (vs Cena at MITB for example or vs Bryan at OTL for something more recent)



Yeah1993 said:


> 2005 Raw is such a blindspot for me that I'm considering tacking down full episodes. I've seen a lot of the best stuff (and supposed 'Best' stuff), but there's a lot of stuff with guys like Christian that I haven't seen.


You should go for it. Looking at things from a short view, the whole year seems awesome and I've enjoyed the first month. Are you equally ignorant about Smackdown that year? I've also enjoyed it more than 2004 in the first month with the weird Angle/JBL/Big Show triple threat feud. Lots of unexpected swerves with the heels being top level trolls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Kennedy drew Carlito in 16:00 w/commercial on the 8/20/07 RAW. I remember it so well. Simply because I couldn't believe it was getting so much time.

EDIT ~ Then consider me the exact opposite on the opinion of Punk. The moment I caught a glimpse of him, I was hooked. He's the guy who drew me into Independent wrestling. Overrated? Not at all.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Last Raw of 07 was legit.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Kennedy vs Carlito sounds like something I'd put on after I'd committed a despicable act and felt like I deserved some seemingly never ending form of torture.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

If I put to rank the post AE RAW and SD! years then this would be it:

1. RAW 2004
2. RAW 2005 
3. RAW 2002
4. RAW 2008
5. RAW 2011/2003 (joint fifth)
6. RAW 2010
7. RAW 2012
8. RAW 2009

1. SD 2003
2. SD 2005
3. SD 2009
4. SD 2008
5. SD 2004
6. SD 2006
7. SD 2011
8. SD 2007
9. SD 2012


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kennedy's grab of Carlito's hair to hit the inverted russian leg sweep was the best part of the match. What a good use of his surroundings.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> Kennedy vs Carlito sounds like something I'd put on after I'd committed a despicable act and felt like I deserved some seemingly never ending form of torture.


:lmao :lmao :lmao



Hailsabin said:


> EDIT ~ Then consider me the exact opposite on the opinion of Punk. The moment I caught a glimpse of him, I was hooked. He's the guy who drew me into Independent wrestling. Overrated? Not at all.


Hey, it's all cool. Everybody has their opinions and if you like Punk, that's no problem for me! 

Also on the topic of Flair's 2004-2006 matches. I just finished watching a Raw match between him and Randy Orton on the go home show for Royal Rumble 05. (24/01/05) Another good match between the two. It seems like Orton was on fire that month. He had a great TV match with HHH 03/01/05 where he won, another decent match with Batista at 17/01/05 and lastly one of the better HHH/Orton matches at the Rumble itself. 

And while we're there, I think I've discovered the real reason why Orton's face run flopped. HHH BURYING HIM! :hhh The kid was as over as it gets after his face turn post-SummerSlam, then he lost the title and still managed to remain over with the crowd. Then for the Rumble match, it was his last chance at getting anywhere but per usual, HHH beat him again and he was stuck with Stacy Keibler afterwards until the heel turn brought him back up the ladder. Unlike what the stupid ass Orton haters say, it's not because he was "forced" and crowd didn't care. It might just be backstage problems he had but damn sure nothing to do with his on-screen performance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed.

Yeah, idk what the point of having Orton owned by H at every turn was. This isn't a knock on H or anything, but it didn't do Orton any favors when he lost the World Championship only 28 days later after winning. Suppose it doesn't matter as Orton would go on to feud with the Undertaker and end 2005 on a very high note. Plus, he is better as a heel.

I remember my fury when HHH beat Orton at Unforgiven though. Oh man, good thing I wasn't on a place like this. I would have embarrassed myself being a 14 year old mark, haha.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Yeah, idk what the point of having Orton owned by H at every turn was. This isn't a knock on H or anything, but it didn't do Orton any favors when he lost the World Championship only 28 days later after winning. Suppose it doesn't matter as Orton would go on to feud with the Undertaker and end 2005 on a very high note. Plus, he is better as a heel.
> 
> I remember my fury when HHH beat Orton at Unforgiven though. Oh man, good thing I wasn't on a place like this. I would have embarrassed myself being a 14 year old mark, haha.


lmao, I feel that. I'm way beyond a "mark" at this point, know most of the results beforehand and I still get into the shows to an extent when watching. For instance, in numerous Evolution/Orton segments, I've actually gotten into it to the point of rooting for Orton.

EDIT: Flair can't take a RKO worth a damn! It looks like he's taking a suplex rather than a face bump. And there's HHH going to the top rope and getting countered even when it's not a match! And Orton gets the upper-hand in a segment with Evolution as usual only to lose where it matters the most. (24/1/05)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well that's what they wanted to accomplish, so I'd say that's a positive. Plus, you love this stuff. Only nature to mark out for things. I still get into plenty of moments/matches that I've seen a ton of times. Goosebumps everytime I see Undertaker win at WrestleMania 23. That will never go away. Nor would I want it to.

Shawn Michaels win at Survivor Series 2002 is another one. OH MY GOD I love that reaction.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> I remember my fury when HHH beat Orton at Unforgiven though. Oh man, good thing I wasn't on a place like this. I would have embarrassed myself being a 14 year old mark, haha.


I threw a party after H won the title back at Unforgiven. :hb


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What did the "IWC" think of Orton getting pushed back in 2004? I've barely caught any forum topics on internet from that time and from what I've seen, they thought Orton wasn't even worthy of being in the same ring as Foley (wonder if they changed after the BL match) and there was lots of hoping that JBL would get fired after the Nazi saluting thing over in Germany. (I can only imagine how disappointed they were after JBL not only won the title at TGAB, but went onto holding it for 9 months!) And I know one thing for sure, they couldn't accuse Orton of lacking charisma back then like some do today! The guy cuts great promos almost weekly on the shows I'm watching and he just oozes charisma from the way he carries himself around.

And speaking of parties, I loved that post-Unforgiven party in the ring with Orton coming out of that cake to destroy HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I threw a party after H won the title back at Unforgiven. :hb


That's a TLK party I don't approve of.

Only thing about 2004 on forums I know is that tons of people complained about JBL being champ. Which I don't understand. Over Eddie, sure. But, Eddie was for it. JBL's promos were AWESOME during his run so I was cool.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really enjoyed Orton's ascension in 2004. Thought the Legend Killer gimmick fit him perfectly and was handled really well. After he turned face and was squashed by H a month later it was obvious that their real plan was to make Batista the megastar.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> What did the "IWC" think of Orton getting pushed back in 2004? I've barely caught any forum topics on internet from that time and from what I've seen, they thought Orton wasn't even worthy of being in the same ring as Foley (wonder if they changed after the BL match) and there was lots of hoping that JBL would get fired after the Nazi saluting thing over in Germany. (I can only imagine how disappointed they were after JBL not only won the title at TGAB, but went onto holding it for 9 months!) And I know one thing for sure, they couldn't accuse Orton of lacking charisma back then like some do today! The guy cuts great promos almost weekly on the shows I'm watching and he just oozes charisma from the way he carries himself around.


 The only thing that I disliked about Orton in 2004 was his face turn. At first, it was understandable considering Evolution's break up but I never liked his face character. He is just one of those guys that is better suited as a heel (like Edge or CM Punk). Other than that, Orton was one of the best things on RAW 2004. His promos, IC title run and character (the Legend Killer) were all entertaining. It's a shame he never got a match with the Rock though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Never understood the hatred Pyro and others have for Orton's consistent push. They talk about him being 'forced' down the viewer's throat, when if anything he just had a really well booked long term push where he was put in prominent angles with established talent and allowed to blossom.

I mean the IC Title run from late 03 through half of 04 as well as being the clearly groomed 'future star' of Evolution at the time was a smart way to elevate him and the IC title and the Foley feud was so well handled with a satisfying payof, and the way they subtly built Benoit/Orton was terrific and they put him over in genius fashion and established him as a game changer. Then after the Evolution fallout debacle, he works a 9 month feud with Undertaker, where he's allowed to look legit and get numerous one-ups of Taker. Then he works Rey and Angle over the first half of 2006 and becomes this really cunty bastard who's utterly hated before he teams with an equally despised Edge against the reformed DX before he eventually settles into an exciting program with Cena where it feels like two future company stars facing off for the first time.

If more midcarders got the sort of consistent booking and faith Orton was given in that timeframe, then we'd have a lot more over wrestlers today, rather than constantly booking the same match for weeks on end, only changing the result every now and then so neither guy really moves to that next level.

Also speaking of guys who take the RKO awkwardly, Taker is up there. I remember a good 3/4 occasions where Taker takes the bump by almost landing like you would off a neckbreaker. Not sure if he and Orton just had a series of unfortunate miscommunications when using the spot, but it always came off pretty awkwardly.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Smackdown was the shit back in 2009. Honestly, SD 2009 felt like SD 2002 for me. Great wrestling ever week and the undercard was featured prominently. The World Title feud with Hardy and Punk was the best feud of the year. Not only did SD focus a lot of its energy on the World Title, the IC title was just as important. Jericho/Mysterio worked their butts off to bring credibility back to the title. And it didn't end there. Like I said, the undercard really shined that year and it's largely in part due to the mesh of undercard vs main event guys. Edge vs Morrisson easily comes to mind. 

RAW, on the other hand sucked! After Mania, RAW went to the dogs. Storylines sucked, wrestling sucked. Just terrible. The guest hosts didn't help either.

ECW, I have always been a fan of. Consistently good wrestling show. I was probably one of the few who were pissed off that NXT was replacing it. I knew NXT was going to be a flash in the pan kind of thing and more importantly the disbanding of ECW led to a lot of young guys just floating around the main roster doing nothing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I really enjoyed Orton's ascension in 2004. Thought the Legend Killer gimmick fit him perfectly and was handled really well. After he turned face and was squashed by H a month later it was obvious that their real plan was to make Batista the megastar.


Terrible decision.

(Batista has good matches behind him, but meh. heel Batista circa '09-10 or gtfo)



Segunda Caida said:


> Never understood the hatred Pyro and others have for Orton's consistent push. They talk about him being 'forced' down the viewer's throat, when if anything he just had a really well booked long term push where he was put in prominent angles with established talent and allowed to blossom.
> 
> I mean the IC Title run from late 03 through half of 04 as well as being the clearly groomed 'future star' of Evolution at the time was a smart way to elevate him and the IC title and the Foley feud was so well handled with a satisfying payof, and the way they subtly built Benoit/Orton was terrific and they put him over in genius fashion and established him as a game changer. Then after the Evolution fallout debacle, he works a 9 month feud with Undertaker, where he's allowed to look legit and get numerous one-ups of Taker. Then he works Rey and Angle over the first half of 2006 and becomes this really cunty bastard who's utterly hated before he teams with an equally despised Edge against the reformed DX before he eventually settles into an exciting program with Cena where it feels like two future company stars facing off for the first time.
> 
> ...


You mean competent booking for midcard guys to flourish into eventual stars? At this stage? I'd love for you to be correct, but that's probably not gonna happen.

Oh yeah. Taker's bumps from the RKO's are odd. He _always_ jumps when taking them. Never know why.



sharkboy22 said:


> Smackdown was the shit back in 2009. Honestly, SD 2009 felt like SD 2002 for me. Great wrestling ever week and the undercard was featured prominently. The World Title feud with Hardy and Punk was the best feud of the year. Not only did SD focus a lot of its energy on the World Title, the IC title was just as important. Jericho/Mysterio worked their butts off to bring credibility back to the title. And it didn't end there. Like I said, the undercard really shined that year and it's largely in part due to the mesh of undercard vs main event guys. Edge vs Morrisson easily comes to mind.
> 
> RAW, on the other hand sucked! After Mania, RAW went to the dogs. Storylines sucked, wrestling sucked. Just terrible. The guest hosts didn't help either.
> 
> ECW, I have always been a fan of. Consistently good wrestling show. I was probably one of the few who were pissed off that NXT was replacing it. I knew NXT was going to be a flash in the pan kind of thing and more importantly the disbanding of ECW led to a lot of young guys just floating around the main roster doing nothing.


100% man. It's why I loved the majority of the year. Punk & Morrison vs WGTT was one of the many that really stood out to me from Smackdown. Oh man the more I discuss 2009 ECW the more I really think I should take on this project right now. I can handle two at once...I think.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Terrible decision.
> 
> (Batista has good matches behind him, but meh. heel Batista circa '09-10 or gtfo)
> 
> ...


Yup, the current guys don't have some of the experienced talents Orton had the privilege to work with, but WWE is just in this souless circle of repeated matches every week that it makes it hard to get invested in anyone. I like the idea of guys trading wins and losses when in a big feud, especially in a more pure wrestling feud where they establish both men as foils for the other..but Barrett and Orton having 3 matches in the space of a week and a bit and trading wins really elevates no-one. Barrett isn't a guy I consider worth a whole lot, but it seems pointless to have him beat Orton and then have a rematch on Raw in a throwaway match and have him eat the pin. Any momentum he gets is gone and what's worse is if they decide to have them feud after the Del Rio/Orton program, you just know the matches and 'feud' will be the same as it has been this past week: a bunch of matches with very litte in the way of creative promos or angles to really sell the feud beyond the wrestling.

Plus they actually seemed to have faith in Orton. He was consistently presented in big feuds/angles time after time and was given sufficient time to hone his character before being elevated up the card. These days so many guys are fighting for TV time and the minute they finally get some exposure they're back being relegated to Superstars or jobbing the next week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the clear problem with the company. I rolled my eyes when I saw Orton vs Barrett was happening again on RAW this week. Literally said "oh, Randy has to get his win back." Look what happened. He did. Now Orton is on his way to the Elmination tag and Barrett has...nothing. Where is the progression? I know Justin Gabriel only beat Cesaro to get the random PPV championship match, but why not work with that? He beat a champion _CLEAN_. Then what happens after the PPV, he faces Alberto Del Rio in the same slot that ADR is stuck on RAW every week only to job. Progression negated. Not to mention a guy like Zack Ryder. Who is still over with the crowd if you can believe that. Yet he's regulated to jobbing and being second fiddle in a mediocre tag team with Santino fuckin Marella of all people. 

I realize the roster is pretty young overall. In terms of both age and name power, but damn. Lets try and get something cooking again. Everything seems to reset once the week is through. Instead of giving Kofi his 10th jobber championship reign how about trying someone new. Simply a thought, WWE. Now I know Ryback has gotten over in a big way, although he only faces the SAME people too. (JTG squash on RAW. why) So while he's rising, his progression isn't moving fast either. Pardon beating Miz x2 & Dolph the rest of his wins mean nothing. People like to compare him to Goldberg only by this time Goldberg had already moved up to semi-credible workers on a weekly basis. Ryback is still squashing jobbers while going after the top heel in Punk. Something is missing there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> The only thing that I disliked about Orton in 2004 was his face turn. At first, it was understandable considering Evolution's break up but I never liked his face character. He is just one of those guys that is better suited as a heel (like Edge or CM Punk). Other than that, Orton was one of the best things on RAW 2004. His promos, IC title run and character (the Legend Killer) were all entertaining. It's a shame he never got a match with the Rock though.


It's not too late now to have The Rock/Orton one on one. If there's anyone The Rock should work with from the full-time roster, it's Orton. At least after WM29 for SummerSlam. There were rumors that this year's SS would have Orton vs Lesnar but for whatever reason (and obviously the suspension afterward), that was dropped and we may not even get this match.

And I've enjoyed his original face run. He's obviously a better heel but as a face, he's nowhere nearly as terrible as made out to be. At least not in his pretty boy stage back then. Now, I agree that he's a boring face with this whole "Viper" thing.



Segunda Caida said:


> Never understood the hatred Pyro and others have for Orton's consistent push. They talk about him being 'forced' down the viewer's throat, when if anything he just had a really well booked long term push where he was put in prominent angles with established talent and allowed to blossom.


I personally don't take anything they say seriously. They are bitching about Orton being "shoved down throats for 10 years until he was accepted" then are quick to whine about how WWE are impatient and drop the ball with somebody just because they fail to HIT with the first opportunity they get. Orton is one of the best handled talents in the last decade. The way his career has reached this point has been done smoothly with a lot of memorable feuds and matches to look back at fondly. Sucks that he's floating around with nothing to do now, though. Just hope they turn him heel and give him the well-deserved dominant booking. Would really love if The Rock took on him at SummerSlam next year. Will add to his impressive list of SS opponents too which includes Hogan, Benoit, Cena, Undertaker and if you count the chamber match, also HBK, HHH, Goldberg and Jericho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton needs a fresh change. That's what his problem is right now.

and his attitude. Hope that's back in check. That's why he's floating around away from the World/WWE championship. At least he beat Del Rio @ HIAC. Was nice to root for him again.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> That's the clear problem with the company. I rolled my eyes when I saw Orton vs Barrett was happening again on RAW this week. Literally said "oh, Randy has to get his win back." Look what happened. He did. Now Orton is on his way to the Elmination tag and Barrett has...nothing. Where is the progression? I know Justin Gabriel only beat Cesaro to get the random PPV championship match, but why not work with that? He beat a champion _CLEAN_. Then what happens after the PPV, he faces Alberto Del Rio in the same slot that ADR is stuck on RAW every week only to job. Progression negated. Not to mention a guy like Zack Ryder. Who is still over with the crowd if you can believe that. Yet he's regulated to jobbing and being second fiddle in a mediocre tag team with Santino fuckin Marella of all people.
> 
> I realize the roster is pretty young overall. In terms of both age and name power, but damn. Lets try and get something cooking again. Everything seems to reset once the week is through. Instead of giving Kofi his 10th jobber championship reign how about trying someone new. Simply a thought, WWE. Now I know Ryback has gotten over in a big way, although he only faces the SAME people too. (JTG squash on RAW. why) So while he's rising, his progression isn't moving fast either. Pardon beating Miz x2 & Dolph the rest of his wins mean nothing. People like to compare him to Goldberg only by this time Goldberg had already moved up to semi-credible workers on a weekly basis. Ryback is still squashing jobbers while going after the top heel in Punk. Something is missing there.


Yup. WWE still produces an abundance of good-great matches over the course of a year (far more than TNA, though I have no idea how many feel the same way, but I loathe the TNA style of wrestling), but the entire product on a week to week basis is just so stale and stuck in a sense of playing safe. I like the idea of making more angles/feuds heavily relient on the wrestling aspect and trying to make it important to be seen as a better wrestler than your opponent instead of day time soap opera esque Russo plots for feuds...but the likes of the NWA managed to create a product which featured their wrestling as a priority whilst still placing an impotus on the characters and storylines. WWE really should aim to be more like WCW circa 1992 if they're going for a more 'wrestling orientated product'. Keep the wrestling aspect central and keep characters more realistic and relatable instead of overly cartoonish, but still look to book certain feuds in a more grander and differential aspect than others: e.g have Orton/Del Rio be quite violent as a fued, whereas someone like Cesaro can have more wrestling based storylines revolving around building up a legitimate contender to dethrone him.

Every feud feels the same in the way its presented. Wrestler A does commentary as Wrestler B (his feud opponent) wrestles Wrestler C. Wrestler A either a) interferes to force a DQ, b) interferes to cause a loss only to fail and be dumped out of the ring, c) interferes and succeeds in causing Wrestler B to lose or d) just does commentary and then has a post match stardown with Wrestler B.

Then you'll have a standard promo with the babyface being overly comical and being force fed horrendously cheesy lines that remove any sense of emotion and realism in the feud, whislt the heel rattles off generic material about being better. Everything just seems to be in a constant loop instead of trying new angles and different characters and pushing different feuds in different directions. They're doing a better job at generally protecting their champions, but the likes of Cesaro desperately not only need credible feuds, but also need creative to start developing and booking fresh contenders. Whilst Cesaro feuds with Truth they should be trying to build the likes of Kidd, Tatsu, Gabriel, Ryder or some other lowcard babyface as a viable contender to challenge Cesaro when he's finished his current program, instead of just randomly putting Cesaro with Kidd after not seeing him for a month and expecting people to care and be willing to pay money to see them wrestle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> Yup. WWE still produces an abundance of good-great matches over the course of a year (far more than TNA, though I have no idea how many feel the same way, but I loathe the TNA style of wrestling), but the entire product on a week to week basis is just so stale and stuck in a sense of playing safe. I like the idea of making more angles/feuds heavily relient on the wrestling aspect and trying to make it important to be seen as a better wrestler than your opponent instead of day time soap opera esque Russo plots for feuds...but the likes of the NWA managed to create a product which featured their wrestling as a priority whilst still placing an impotus on the characters and storylines. WWE really should aim to be more like WCW circa 1992 if they're going for a more 'wrestling orientated product'. Keep the wrestling aspect central and keep characters more realistic and relatable instead of overly cartoonish, but still look to book certain feuds in a more grander and differential aspect than others: e.g have Orton/Del Rio be quite violent as a fued, whereas someone like Cesaro can have more wrestling based storylines revolving around building up a legitimate contender to dethrone him.
> 
> Every feud feels the same in the way its presented. Wrestler A does commentary as Wrestler B (his feud opponent) wrestles Wrestler C. Wrestler A either a) interferes to force a DQ, b) interferes to cause a loss only to fail and be dumped out of the ring, c) interferes and succeeds in causing Wrestler B to lose or d) just does commentary and then has a post match stardown with Wrestler B.
> 
> Then you'll have a standard promo with the babyface being overly comical and being force fed horrendously cheesy lines that remove any sense of emotion and realism in the feud, whislt the heel rattles off generic material about being better. Everything just seems to be in a constant loop instead of trying new angles and different characters and pushing different feuds in different directions. They're doing a better job at generally protecting their champions, but the likes of Cesaro desperately not only need credible feuds, but also need creative to start developing and booking fresh contenders. Whilst Cesaro feuds with Truth they should be trying to build the likes of Kidd, Tatsu, Gabriel, Ryder or some other lowcard babyface as a viable contender to challenge Cesaro when he's finished his current program, instead of just randomly putting Cesaro with Kidd after not seeing him for a month and expecting people to care and be willing to pay money to see them wrestle.


They still do give us good/great matches. That's the irony of what I have to say about the company right now...

See, the hyprocrisy of the WWE right now is that they're apparently trying to keep the focus on stuff in the ring - as opposed to their once over the top, bold storylines. Ok, fine. What's hypocritcal about it is simply this: Vince is intent on not letting the company be considered a _wrestling_ promotion. How could they possibly build on the wrestling aspect when they can't even refer to the sport as that? It's "sports-entertainment". Not wrestling. They're "superstars", "entertainers", "performers". Not wrestlers. Only time you'll hear that word is when WrestleMania is around the corner. That alone is sucking the life from company to actually try and make programs compelling, if you ask me. It's as if the writers sit in their room and say "fuck it" lets push _'this guy' _this week to give _this other guy_ something to do. It's not wrestling anymore. We're making a TV show. I really feel that whenever I watch the WWE now. Then I'm supposed to expect this company to go out and want to establish new names for all aspects of the biz? New midcarders, upper midcarders, and main eventers. We aren't going to get that until this company starts to get themselves back into a WRESTLING promotion mindset again.

That backstage crew that books, writes, and makes the WWE go round can't possibly think the majority of their program is what it should be. They absolutely can't. Any success we see out in that ring is clearly from the talent working and them alone.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton got fucked over in 04 because _he_ fucked up, plain and simple. All the crap about him not being over, not having charisma and being forced or whatever is just that, crap. Had he not been a junkie and had he actually been able to handle the responsibility of the role he was in, I have no doubt that he would have become what so many hoped and intended him to be. But he was the one who fucked up and ultimately its on his head.

Going to watch a bunch of stuff tomorrow since I'm not working until late. Some Mania XX stuff. Yeah, I'm still there lol, along with Backlash 04 and maybe JDay 04 too if I get that far. Also have HHH/Lesnar SS, Cena/Punk NOC and Seamus/Show HIAC on the to do list.

*Most overrated so far*: Probably Punk/Jericho, Mania 28 tbh. Wouldn't go anywhere close to 4* for this thing never mind call it a classic. I guess I could throw Rock/Cena in there too while I'm at it.

*Most underrated so far*: Orton/Kane, Mania 28 is a good shout. This was much better than it had any right to be lol. A lot of the Ascension/Uso's tag matches on NXT have flown under the radar for the most part. Some good stuff there. 

*Personal favorite so far*: HHH/Taker HIAC. I was there live for this shit. Nuff said lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2005 was the best year for in-ring work since 1997. Do I even need to list off all of the fantastic matches (not great, FANTASTIC) that we received on a monthly basis ?

- Elimination Chamber III
- Royal Rumble Match 2005
- MITB I
- Angle vs Michaels I & II
- Taker vs Orton I, II, III, HC Casket, and IV
- HHH-Benoit (Twice on Raw)
- Angle-Flair
- REGAL-BENOIT :O
- Shawn's epic performance against Hogan
- RAW Homecoming
- Edge-Benoit and Jericho-Benjamin BL
- Eddie-Rey 6/23 , JD , GAB, Cage
- HHH-Batista II and ESPECIALLY III
- Taker-JBL Unsanctioned
- Awesome-Tanaka ONS
- HBK-Masters & Angle-Cena UNF
- Flair-HHH I and II
- RAW vs SMACKDOWN SS 05

That's just the tip of the iceberg to the greatest WORKED year of the last 15 years (and that's because I didn't watch in 97). Anybody actually AGREE with me, or am I insane?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> You should go for it. Looking at things from a short view, the whole year seems awesome and I've enjoyed the first month. Are you equally ignorant about Smackdown that year? I've also enjoyed it more than 2004 in the first month with the weird Angle/JBL/Big Show triple threat feud. Lots of unexpected swerves with the heels being top level trolls.


Actually yeah. Other than Rey/Eddie I can't remember much of 05 SD either.



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> 2005 was the best year for in-ring work since 1997. Do I even need to list off all of the fantastic matches (not great, FANTASTIC) that we received on a monthly basis ?
> 
> - Elimination Chamber III
> - Royal Rumble Match 2005
> ...


Nah I definitely wouldn't agree with that. A year like 2001 demolishes it. Other than the best Rey/Eddie there's probably five or six matches from WWF in 2001 that are better than anything from 2005. I think it was more consistent and I like most of the overrated stuff from 01 better than the overrated stuff from 05. 00 and 04 were better than WWE years than 05 as well. I think a lot of the reason I'm saying this is is because there's SO many praised matches in 05 I don't think are that good. Or in some cases, not good at all. Plus so many of the guys in the main event either I don't really care for or I think were outright bad at the time. Maybe I need to go through the TV stuff, but I'd be surprised if I thought 05 was better than 00, 01, or 04. Are you counting post-05? Because 06 slaughters it as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KOK, you're not insane, from the look of things, I'll enjoy the fuck out of 2005, possibly even more than 03 and 04.

Also first time it got ignored, but does ANYONE have the 4 August, 23 September & 28 October episodes of Smackdown 2005? I have them all except these three!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I kind of abandoned my 2004 PPV gloss over that I started till I read your post, haha. I might has well do one and kill some time.

*No Way Out 2004*​
Pre-Show) Billy Kidman, Paul London, & Ultimo Dragon vs Yoshihiro Tajiri, Akio, & Ryan Sakoda ~ **1/4


1) *WWE Tag Team Championship* - *Handicap Match*:
Scott Taylor/Rikishi(c) vs Basham Brothers & Shaniquia ~ *


2) *Jamie Noble Must Wear a Blindfold*:
Jamie Noble vs Nidia Guenard ~ DUD


3) APA vs World's Greatest Tag Team ~ **3/4


4) Bob Holly vs Rhyno ~ *1/2


5) *WWE Cruiserweight Championship*:
Rey Mysterio(c) vs Chavo Guerrero Jr ~ ***1/2


6) *#1 Contender's for WWE Championship* - *Triple Threat Match*:
Kurt Angle vs Big Show vs John Cena ~ ***1/4


7) *WWE Championship*:
Brock Lesnar(c) vs Eddie Guerrero ~ ****1/2​

That main event combined with a really energetic crowd make the over-under on this show really come out to a definitive positive.

~ Thought I'd give a shout to the Sunday Night Heat match since it was tons of fun. Look at the talent involved. Ultimo Dragon was SEVERELY underused by the WWE. Not like the traditional underused. A whole different level. I bet most people forget he even had a stint there.

~ Opener sucked. Not a shocker. Bashams are one of the worst teams I've ever seen and Rikishi was involved. Scotty & Shaniqua were the only "high" points (and I use that loosely) of the bout.

~ Part of me wants to say Jamie Noble deserved better. Then the other half knows that this match beat doing nothing for the PPV. So yeah...good for Noble that he was involved in something. Even if it was THIS. It sucked simply because Noble was blindfolded. There you go. Shite gimmick results into a shite match. Crowd ate it up. So it's bearable in that sense. And Noble owned Nidia so we can all rejoice. :mark:

~ APA vs WGTT was simplistic fun. One of the matches to be built up only the Smackdown prior to the event and to the surprise of us all, it delivered. Found the arm work callback from the Shelton/Bradshaw match to be a nice touch. Smart way to center the match on. Simmons was nearing the end of his career here and he did...a spinebuster. That's all. Which was for the best. Bradshaw was able to carry the rest of the match alone. WGTT were still key workers here. Actually knew how to work a match without putting you to sleep. A nice gem.

~ Bob Holly vs Rhyno. Eh. It was just there. Seen worse, but clearly have seen better. Forgettable. Spanish commentators being brought up mid match only for Tazz to come back and say "They said I have a really snazzy suit in Spanish" was the highlight.

~ Cruiserweight championship. Ok, here's where the show remained on that upper level. I know plenty never liked Chavo Jr. Fair enough. I'd like to see someone argue that he doesn't work well with Mysterio though. This wasn't on par with their eventual best match ever (or tied for first) at Great American Bash '04. Still plenty good. Chavo Guerrero Sr. is new on the scene at this time and of course he comes into play for the finish. CHAVO CLASSIC IMO. Pretty darn crisp action overall. The prime example of a really good lengthy bout. Was AWESOME to see the Cruiserweight championship on such a big level on a WWE PPV. Was there any other one that was bigger? Don't think so.

~ Triple Threat was fast, fresh, & fun. All 3 dynamics worked well in the quick span of the bout. Show was the monster who has been on a roll for quite some time. Incorporated his longstanding program with Cena thoughout the bout. Angle was the wrestling veteran who's gunning to main event his second WrestleMania. The dissention between Angle & Cena was the precursor to Angle's eventual turn vs Eddie. Cena was out there as the new hot face on the block. Actually felt like he had a chance to win it all and main event WrestleMania for the WWE Championship. Injured knee or not he was game. Going off on the dynamics alone made me dig it. Only gripe I could say is that it wasn't too long. Not really a big deal. Obviously the match was quality. I'm a sucker for triple threat matches in the WWE. Vast majority of the time they deliver.

~ Oh the main event. What is there to say about it? The elements that legends are made of. I think everyone knows what I hold in high regard about the bout. Nailed it to a tee. Every aspect worked. Brock as the asshole BEAST champ who didn't take Guerrero seriously. Eddie in his biggest underdog role of his career. Trying to vindicate all of his past transgressions in one swoop by achiving the pinnacle of his career. Goldberg's interaction. Even the run-in worked. Loved, loved, loved how Brock kicked out of the spear when Eddie covered him. Made you think "Eddie only won because of Goldberg" Instead that part was merely fodder for the drama. The real finish was appropriate. It ended in true, honest to goodness Eddie Guerrero fashion. Tornado DDT on the championship. Play dead. FROG SPLASH. NEW WWE CHAMPION. I'm getting emotional simply by tying this. Incredible. One of my favorite sound-bites occurs at the end of this too: _"Eddie Guerrero can no longer be called addict. Tonight, Eddie Guerrero will simply be known as WWE Champion"_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH, EDDIE-LESNAR ? JIZZ.

One of my favorite matches ever and looking back on it now, one of (if not THE) most inspirational/emotional match in WRESTLING history. For Eddie to overcome the demons and become the ultimate underdog champion (Rey winning was more for Eddie than himself so I don't really consider that TOO emotional or inspirational), it was amazing to see one of the greatest wrestlers ever and such a nice guy finally get his due. On Eddie's doc, the scene with him and Vince, as well as him calling Vickie after the match is absolutely BREATHTAKING, as you can feel the weight being lifted off the man's shoulders. I have it at ***** 3/4* , Lesnar's best match ever (can't decide between this and ER vs Cena) along with being Eddie's second best match ever. 

It's a shame that perhaps the greatest Wrestlemania moment ever will never be acknowledged again by WWE. *I mean, can you picture a better ending to WRESTLING in general?* Like let's just say hypothetically, Wrestlemania XX was the last wrestling PPV EVER (I know that would never happen, but just bear with me) , can you think of a better moment that better encapsulates WHY we watch this shit than that one ? Through all the bullshit that we've been fed over the years, it was like the ultimate reward to see these two motherfuckers who gave their LIVES to the business (In Benoit's case anyways) , who also double as the best in the world for years upon years finally get what they deserved. If the WWE folded after that night, I can't think of a more satisfactory ending....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know you have people who are sour on that moment due to the tragedy, but I do get your point. That moment was well deserved. Couldn't stress that enough. I'm gonna have to agree with you simply because I don't think anyone else could be compared. Which isn't a knock on any of the other talent who's achieved major success at WrestleMania or even in their careers, but it felt that much more special with those two. Being best buds. Being true workhorses doing anything and everything for the biz. No matter if it was main eventing to opening. They made the sport better with their work. To have them stand at that milestone event being the premiere wrestlers in the biggest company in the world was one of a kind.

I tried to watch the Eddie tribute about an hour ago, but I got too emotional and had to stop. I'll try again later because I really do want to watch it. Dammit though. For me being a guy who has a hard time expressing his emotions in life, my feelings towards Eddie Guerrero rush to the surface and I can't stop it. That's a sign that I'll never stop watching this stuff. As if I ever thought that. This sport is my life.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Nice Superstars match from earlier this year, my first time seeing it. Both guys deserved to be featured more.






Short and sweet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah good match. Justin Gabriel vs Hunico 3/15/12 is :mark:

I'm not even a fan of Hunico at all. It owned though.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

^Thanks for the recommendation. Just put it in my youtube watch later list. I'll check it out in the near future.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks vs Kofi Kingston & R-Truth on that same show is well worth a look too. Good tag team match. Best while Kofi & R-Truth were teaming up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just got finished watching the two 8-man HHH tag matches from the top 100 list, and I've came to the conclusion that the Evolution one is superior. I know the 2000 one gets alot more cred, but I think the 04 one is just....Well....A better match. The first few minutes with Flair getting beaten down on by everyone and looking like a pathetic old has been, only to tag in HHH (looking menacing and intimidating as fuck) ... Who gets dominated as well. Thought it was a brilliant touch to a brilliant match. 

Benjamin's stock was soaring sky high at the time of this match, and the commentary was spot on (something I don't really say alot about matches). The talent pool in the match was superior to the 2000 match as well IMO.

Benjamin/Benoit/Foley/HBK vs Evolution : ******
DX/Radicalz vs Rock/Foley/Too Cool : **** 3/4*

Got about 19 matches left to watch for this, including HBK/Austin vs Davey Boy/Owen (which is going to be watched ASAP  ) .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The '04 8 man tag OWNS.

Foley being on a team with Shelton was the DRAW.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/Austin v Owen/Bulldog might be a top ten match in Raw history.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Still quite a few matches for me, but I just watched it and it's 6 or 7 for sure on my list (of RAW matches, that is). One of the greatest 10 minute contests ever with all four men just CLICKING. Austin pre neck injury was awesome in this, and Shawn's return was played beautifully. Owen and Bulldog were the perfect catalysts for the Austin-HBK duo, with Bret being in the background of it all. Doesn't get the respect it deserves due to 97 having about a bajillion awesome matches from the main event stars, and the awesome angle it was immersed in. ***** 1/4* from me.

Again... MIND BLOWN as to why Lesnar-Rock was on the top 100 list, as I thought every match on the list should be atleast ****..... I guess some people value some of these matches slightly more than I do. Time to watch the WM XIX matches on the list since I'm done with most of 97 and all of the :hhh matches.

BTW , how would you rank these BACKLUND matches on the top 100 list ?

Backlund-Valentine MSG 79
Backlund-Slaughter MSG 81
Backlund-Adonis MSG 82
Backlund-Patera MSG 80

Might have myself a little BACKLUND-A-THON tomorrow when I get out of class


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd probably put all of those Backlund matches somewhere in the top 30 for WWE. Valentine and Slaughter matches might be top 10. I don't think I've seen the Patera TDM in like 3+ years, but I trust that match to hold up. There's probably three or four other Backlund matches that'd make my top 30-50 for WWE too. Motherfucking BACKLUND, motherfucker.

A Backlund-A-Thon is a great idea, but watching four of his matches can possibly take you up to four hours.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks vs Kofi Kingston & R-Truth on that same show is well worth a look too. Good tag team match. Best while Kofi & R-Truth were teaming up.


Found it and added it, will probably watch both tomorrow :agree: Thanks again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Boosh.

BOB BACKLUND? :mark:

although the most recent match of his I watched was from TNA in 2007, lmao.


----------



## Ash Ketchum (Feb 9, 2011)

The Raw 20th Anniversary Box Set is probably gonna be nothing more than a compilation of matches from over the years. I don't expect it to contain full RAW episodes.


----------



## MarkOut4Barrett (Oct 13, 2011)

Watched the Shawn v Bret Greatest Rivalries DVD last night for the first time since i bought it. WWE did really well to put it all together and i must say Jim Ross did a great job of hosting the DVD.


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

Sting Vs Kane(Big bruiser Mastino) WCW 1993

Never knew these two faced each other.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For some reason i never recieved my orginal DVD order from SV (first time ever it's happened), so they kindly resent them out for me at no extra cost to me and they came today, such a great service.

I can finally watch the new Edge DVD later!!!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Michaels/Austin v Owen/Bulldog might be a top ten match in Raw history.


Might be? It's easily a Top 10 Raw match and one of the best WWF/E tag matches ever.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

Mentioned this match in chat the other day, it's one of the hidden gems from Raw's history imho. 

It tells a great story and makes you suspend reality enough to make you believe Taka was going over at certain points.

Dailymotion version was much better quality than Youtube.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1gji3_hhh-vs-taka-michinoku-from-raw_sport


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This match...so much own.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I always take a read of the Fantasy Concept mash-ups on wwedvdnews, Best Of Halloween Havoc today:

The Best of WCW Halloween Havoc: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/fantasy-concept-wcw-halloween-havoc/29254/


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Foley/Orton, Backlash 2004 - ****1/2
HHH/HBK/Benoit, Backlash 2004 - ****1/2
Lesnar/HHH, Summerslam 12 - ****1/4
Lesnar/Goldberg, Mania XX - :lmao*

Didn't get around to Cena/Punk NOC or Seamu/Show yet. Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I finally watched Cena/Punk from NOC. Really good match with an exciting finishing stretch. I like Cena pulling a page out of Punk's book with the shrug and the suicide dive. Nice spot. Finish seemed to come out of nowhere, though, and felt really flat.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> *
> Lesnar/Goldberg, Mania XX - :lmao*


Hm, wait a minute, I think there's a hidden rating there:

:lmao
*****

The lmao simile covers up *****, so therefore you secretly have the match at *****. Be a man about your snowflakes, Starbuck! Don't be ashamed!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taka-Hunter is THE shining example of Hunter being fucking amazing and going through a top 5 in ring prime EVER. Sure, the match is only like a **** 1/4* match from where I sit, but the fact that Hunter bumped around and made you believe (even for a split second) that Taka could win the title is a truly special performance. Hunter was wrestling great TV matches on a week to week basis in that time period anyways, but this match for some reason or another sticks out.

Trips-Shelton I is one of the best example of Trips "putting somebody over" . The fact that Hunter couldn't be Shelton for months upon months really boosted Shelton's stock through the roof, and the fact that they worked a damn near CLASSIC TV match might have something to do with it as well. Shelton is boss and Trips is da G.O.A.T :vince 

...Hey, if Rock/Austin marks can say dumb things in the GOAT forum, can't I say smart things here ? :hhh


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I need to watch Trips/Shelton again. I remember at the time I was thinking, "WTF, Shelton just beat The Game? Maybe this guy is for real." PUTTING SOMEONE OVER.

Never seen Trips/Taka but it sounds amazing :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Never really brought into Shelton tbh. The first win was a roll-up, and then he head a win or 2 by count out/DQ, and then they didn't face after that for a long while. No doubt he gave Shelton a rub though and some attention, but Benjamin was never going anywhere with just one 1-2-3 school boy win over HHH. The first match between them was an excellent TV match, and I have it at ***3/4. TBH though, I was more excited with him after the HBK gold rush match. That's the point where I saw him becoming something great in the future. 

Of course, Benjamin was probably never going to be a star anyway. He lacked personality, mic skills, and a lot of the general requirements for being "The Next Big Thing" or even a top guy. It's almost like God just said "Fuck this, just make this guy an amazing wrestler and forget about all his other qualities". I could've seen him getting a small stint as WHC years down the line at best imo and then being pushed back down the card, similar to Miz.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Yeah good match. Justin Gabriel vs Hunico 3/15/12 is :mark:
> 
> I'm not even a fan of Hunico at all. It owned though.


That match! :shocked: Just saw it, very fun. Nice ending, Hunico's becoming one of my favorites.

Also thanks for posting that match Brye, added it too my watch later list. I remember the big spot in that match but not the entire match. Will check it out soon enough.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That 6 man, Brye, is one of, if not THEE best matches in Superstars history (well, since it's return in 09) and one of the best 6 man WWE tags I can remember seeing, ever. I could watch it over and over again, it's just full of juicy goodness, showcasing what the lower card can do given a bit of time to work with.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I enjoyed that 6 man tag from Superstars, but never thought it was THAT good. I'd put a TON of matches ahead of it, such as Master/McIntyre, Masters/Most People, Regal/Goldust, DiBiase/Goldust (one of the funnest matches ever, even King and Cole sounded like they were having an absolute BLAST on commentary) and a bunch of others I'm too lazy to really remember and write down .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> Never really brought into Shelton tbh. The first win was a roll-up, and then he head a win or 2 by count out/DQ, and then they didn't face after that for a long while. No doubt he gave Shelton a rub though and some attention, but Benjamin was never going anywhere with just one 1-2-3 school boy win over HHH. The first match between them was an excellent TV match, and I have it at ***3/4. TBH though, I was more excited with him after the HBK gold rush match. That's the point where I saw him becoming something great in the future.
> 
> Of course, Benjamin was probably never going to be a star anyway. He lacked personality, mic skills, and a lot of the general requirements for being "The Next Big Thing" or even a top guy. It's almost like God just said "Fuck this, just make this guy an amazing wrestler and forget about all his other qualities". I could've seen him getting a small stint as WHC years down the line at best imo and then being pushed back down the card, similar to Miz.


That Shelton/HHH match is excellent. The pop Shelton gets when successfully pinning HHH is unbelievable. Crowds back then were full of life everywhere. Too bad WWE wont show that match again because Benoit is standing at ringside. :sad:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread*



*Terry Funk vs. Bret “Hitman” Hart*
_ECW: Terry Funk Presents Wrestlefest _
_September 11, 1997_

Terry Funk personally requested to wrestle Bret Hart, the WWF Champion, at this special show in Amarillo, TX celebrating his lifetime achievement in pro wrestling. Terry respected Bret’s wrestling ability and maybe more importantly, his family and legacy.

Before the match, Bret told Terry “he is the greatest wrestler in the history of the game.” Bret talked about when he was a small child and first came to Texas and saw the Funks wrestle and how he treasured the memory of them. So there’s a sense this encounter will be a clean, respectable, play-by-the-rules wrestling contest...until Bret promises to give Terry "the greatest ass-whipping of his career!"

These are two 'old school' wrestlers and based on their facial expressions they look like they’ve been on the long road here. Terry has to be about 52 years old here. Bret’s in his mid-40’s and looking pretty rough with his face a little beat up.

They start off with the _traditional_ wrestling fundamentals – headlock takedowns, fireman’s carry, and armbars. I think the mat wrestling here was done because these two veterans wanted to exhibit their talents the best way they know how in layered storytelling. It is also a way for Funk to show the fans who only know him as a “hardcore wrestler” that he can work on the mat and perform as well as “the best there is.”

When Hart initiated the brawling, it was like he was angered that Terry Funk was besting him on the mat. Hart made the choice he was not going to partake in just a clean wrestling exhibition. He’s going to have to _fight_ this old man to win.










I noticed how when one man made a move the other answered back in spite. Funk and Hart aren’t just exchanging wrestling hold for hold, they are throwing the other man's attack right back at him with more force. There’s an "I'll show you" intent behind their actions, maybe it’s a prideful thing for them. For example, after Hart escaped from Funk’s Spinning Toe-hold, Bret targets Terry’s legs so he couldn’t apply the move again. Dissecting the opponent's legs is Hart’s normal game plan but here Bret locks Terry in the FIGURE FOUR which is a move Bret knows Terry has said “I Quit” to in one of his most famous matches ever with Ric Flair. However, there is no quit in Funk here.

I looked up the definition of the word underdog and Terry Funk is one in every sense of the word here. The definition is, “One that is expected to lose a contest or struggle” and “One that is at a disadvantage.” The Texas fans wanted to believe that Terry Funk in a commemorative match of his career he will somehow beat the younger, current World Champion but there are too many odds against him. Bruce, Keith, and even Stu Hart are on the outside in Bret’s corner. Bret is in the prime of his career at the top of the mountain while Terry is seemingly in the twilight of his career.

The Hart brothers at ringside continuously battered Terry with a steel chair and because there are no disqualifications they weren’t stopped. I think a fan tried to attack one of the Hart brothers too because I saw security escort a man out of the building. It is like the lifelong Funk fans in the crowd is all he has here along with the devotion of his family, friends, and peers.Funk literally feels and bleeds passion when he wrestles and that is probably the main reason he is so relatable to his diehard fans. 

You can’t talk about a Terry Funk match without mentioning his incredible nuances and selling in his performances. When he gets punched he shakes his head back and forward selling the punch as if he were punch-drunk but also an attempt to shake off the pain and come fighting back for more. I laughed at how awesome it was to Funk punch himself in the head after Hart knocked him almost senseless into a table. It was Funk’s way of keeping his body in check. Seeing Terry lying on the ground with his cramped, shivering hand and twitching fingers you pull hard for him to get up. But what Funk does best, as a face at least, is punch his way up from the bottom, staying in the fight. The crowd yelled louder for every punch Terry hit to Bret’s ribs because the people wanted to see him make that striking comeback.

Hart played his role well showing his character getting more irritated at the fact Funk wouldn’t just stay down which makes him fight Terry more viciously. Hart wrapped Funk’s leg inside a steel chair twice trying to snap his leg in half. At this point Hart not only wants to beat Funk but put him down most likely for good right here. Maybe Bret wanted to be the one to end the career of the man he called “the greatest.” It would further solidify Bret’s own legacy and maybe more importantly to his character’s ego.

Funk eventually got on top again and he brought the payback spot calling for the fans to throw him a chair to now punish Bret’s LEGS. Again, Funk’s connection with the fans is incredible. They are the one’s out there supporting him to win this fight. He doesn’t have his brother at ringside with him to hand him a chair, his fans are his family and they will do it impassionedly.

When Funk finally decided to bring out his hardcore side it meant something. He wanted to wrestle a traditional match but it was the so-called “best technical wrestler” that drove him to take the fight to the extreme. So Funk hit Hart in the back a couple of times with the chair and set up a table spot where he missed a backwards, springboard body splash! Yes this man is probably crazy! But Funk was put at a further disadvantage when he landed on his KNEES. Funk was also split open above his left EYE when he crashed through the table. I may be looking too much into it but dammit I think this match does indeed tell a story of Funk’s career as displayed through the psychology I mentioned they used. Funk’s infamous “MY EYE!” injury is now a bloody piece to the story.

For the finish, both men returned to the ring and took the match to where it began which was back to the basics. Hart back-suplexed Funk with both men’s shoulders on the mat until Bret got his up before the three count. I thought the finish they chose was marvelous in its simplicity. 

It was an emotional moment for Terry Funk, his family, and all of Amarillo, TX. They ended the night with a _respectful_ handshake, old school wrestling. They told a story the way Terry wanted to commemorate his career.​


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

i watched HHH/Taka a few months back, it was similar to the Tazz/HHH match where you actually believed hunter might actually lose, then i remembered....


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Thinking about picking up WWE's Road Warriors DVD, any thoughts and would you recommend it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Documentary is ok, nothing special. Don't remember the match listings for it, but its the Road Warriors, so nothing good probably .

:mark: NWO DVD is online. Downloading the documentary disc now. Gonna take a while since its DVD format and only 1 seeder. Well, off to the pub!

Oh, and on mention of HHH/Taka being awesome, there is also a handicap match with HHH Vs The Brooklyn Brawler & Kaientai that's really fun.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Didn't brawler win that match ?

I could've sworn he did.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Might be? It's easily a Top 10 Raw match and one of the best WWF/E tag matches ever.


Said "might be" because I didn't put that much thought into it.  possible Raw matches better:

-The best Perfect/Doink
-The best Jannetty/Doink
-Hart/1-2-3 Kid
-Owen/Bulldog
-Texas Ten Man
-Powertrip/Vanilla Midgets
-4/12/04 Evolutin tag
-Michaels/Cena

I haven't seen Benoit/Orton after SummerSlam yet and I could throw another "maybe" on another 04 tag. It has been a while since I've actually watched Michaels/Austin v Owen/Bulldog though......


----------



## Dec_619 (Oct 9, 2012)

Watched CM Punk 'Best In The World' for the first time last night. Wow, I can't believe how good it was. 

And some of the shit Punk has dealt with behind the Scenes. Vince is such a dog

Have so much more respect for him now!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> -Powertrip/Vanilla Midgets


:lmao

HHH/HBK last Raw of 03 is up there too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched HHH/Michaels recently and I thought it was good, but it didn't really "HOLD UP!!!" hold up. I'd have a lot more Raw matches above it than 10.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's a shame. I haven't seen it in ages either. Hmm...what else is there...

I know Edge/Orton had a really good match, and Edge/HBK Street Fight. Flair/Edge TLC is great, too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge/Orton night after BL 07- ****1/4
Edge/HBK Street Fight 2005- (Need to rewatch, but I believe I had it somewhere in the ***1/2-**** range)
Edge/Flair TLC- ****
HBK/HHH Raw 03- ****1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Austin/Benoit in 01 before their amazing SmackDown match is one of the better Raw matches. Bunch of sub-ten minute matches from 96-97 like Austin/Mankind and Mankind/Owen. I'd say the first Henry/Punk from this year belongs in the talk. Then, of course, HHH/Michaels from Christmas 97. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That street fight was back in 2005? Jesus....

And yeah, that was the Edge/Orton match I was talking about. Damn, I need to watch all those again.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> That street fight was back in 2005? Jesus....
> 
> And yeah, that was the Edge/Orton match I was talking about. Damn, I need to watch all those again.


Edge and HBK had two street fights. One in 2005 and the other in 2007.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Goddamn I love that Edge/Flair TLC. ****1/4, imo. 

Random ratings:
Umaga/Jeff - GAB '07 - ***3/4 (really fun match)
Edge/Orton - April '07 - ***3/4
Christian/Rhodes - NWO '12 - ***1/2
HBK/Orton - SSeries '07 - ****1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Edge and HBK had two street fights. One in 2005 and the other in 2007.


Ah, that's probably why I was in shock.



Brye said:


> Random ratings:
> HBK/Orton - SSeries '07 - ****1/2


I don't remember that AT ALL. I remember HBK's return but nothing about their match.

Edit - Didn't Benoit and HBK have a really good Raw match leading up to Mania 20?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2005:*

Edge vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/4
- After building this feud up from Taboo Tuesday, it finally comes to an end in this match when Edge uses the ropes to win. Nothing too great but some decent back and forth action and Edge's version of the Sharpshooter (Edgecator) is pretty cool. Thought it made him look weak, though, when two spears couldn't take HBK down. But at least Edge won so that makes up for it.

Undertaker vs Heidenreich (Casket Match) - ***
- Not as good as their SVS 04 match but still another decent bout which is surprising to an extent. I like Heidenrape's over the top selling of his fear for the casket but I thought bringing in Snitsky and Kane into this was a bit random. A cool spot was the apron legdrop into the casket which looked brutal. And speaking of Snitsky, that backstage segment with Heidenreich was even more homoerotic than WWE intended it to be, lol. And while we're talking about non-match stuff, I can't help but laugh at the way Undertaker says "Heeeeidenreeich... at the Royal Rumble.... you will rest... in... peace!" during the promo, specially the "Heidenreich" part. Reminds me of comedians that imitate horror movie villains.

JBL vs Big Show vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
- Below my expectations but still acceptable. Just too much outside interference that ruins it and it was only barely above 10 minutes. As always, JBL finds a sneaky way to escape with the title around his waist. It was also pretty cool when Big Show didn't need any slams performed on him to break the table by falling into it all himself.

Triple H vs Randy Orton - ***1/4
- This is one of their more 'accepted' matches out here and I can see why. A bit too slow with HHH working on the knees at a methodical pace then Orton sells the concussion that costs him the match after taking control towards the end. Well worked in terms of psychology. But I'm confused by the crowd. While I have noticed a few boos directed at Orton in previous Raw shows, here they even start a "Randy sucks" chant after giving him a decent pop during entrance. I guess it really was the best decision to turn him heel again, plus he's just better at playing that role.

Royal Rumble Match - ****
- Very enjoyable Rumble with some memorable spots from Angle/HBK starting their feud to the mini Raw/Smackdown showdown until Muhammad Hassan unites them in one. One person that stood out during the majority of the match to me is Edge. Here he is getting a bunch of heat before he was even in the Lita/Matt Hardy thing. But I guess it's not hard to get booed when you eliminate Eddie Guerrero & Rey Mysterio. Batista & Cena are the final two as if Vince had everything planned for his future stars and controversially, both are eliminated at the same time. According to Cena, it was not planned and Vince coming out was unscripted. When you look at how things continued later on and how fast they improvised, I find it a bit hard to believe. And the crowd was electric towards the end, both Batista & Cena had some minor boos when their hand was raised while 95% of the crowd was cheering both. I'm surprised at how over Batista got so fast when three months earlier there was a "Batista can't get over" sign that security took away. I also like how Tazz & JR show bias towards their brand which was a preview for the awesome brand feud that ended at Survivor Series. Furthermore on brands, I think it's amazing how superior Raw's roster was at this point. Smackdown is forced to bring out jobbers and irrelevant people whereas about every single Raw entrant had a purpose. Except Jonathan Coachman, that is. I have no idea why he was in this match for so long when it should've just been a quick elimination at best.

*Overall:* ***3/4 out of ***** (A very good PPV with a great card. In the previous Royal Rumble, the gimmick match itself was the only worthwhile part of the show with a very underwhelming undercard, but this year, the whole thing is stacked with some of the company's bigger stars participating in the undercard. And as expected, the matches deliver to at least decent level and nothing is horrible.)



> Edit - Didn't Benoit and HBK have a really good Raw match leading up to Mania 20?


They had two excellent matches. One in February and another for the World Title a couple of weeks after Backlash. Around early May that will be.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

@KingCal: Thanks, guess I may not check it out then if it's nothing special.
____________

*WWE presents... Starrcade: The Essential Collection (3 Discs)

Quick Thoughts: Very good set; the documentary left a little to be desired but at least WWE gave the event some props but you know that they can't give WCW too much credit. The matches for the most part were great with some hiccups here and there but overall you can't really go wrong here, lots of classic matches.*

*Disc 1:*
Hollywood Hogan vs. Roddy Piper (12/29/96)- *3/4
Sting vs. The Great Muta (12/13/89)- ***
Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs. Barry Windham & Brian Pillman (12/28/92)- ****1/4
Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash (12/27/98)- **1/2
Battlebowl (12/29/91)- **1/4
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (12/27/93)- ***

*Disc 2:*
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. The Road Warriors (11/16/87)- ***3/4-****
Rey Mysterio vs. Jushin Thunder Liger (12/29/96)- ****
Rock N' Roll Express vs. Midnight Express (11/16/87)- *
Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (12/26/88)- ****1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Shinjiro Otani (12/27/95)- ***1/2+
The Road Warriors vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sting (12/26/88)- ***1/2
Sting vs. Vader (12/28/92)- ****1/4+
Brisco Brothers vs. Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood (11/24/83)- ***3/4
Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes (11/28/85)- ****
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko (12/28/97)- **1/2

*Disc 3:*
The Road Warriors vs. The Steiner Brothers (12/13/89)- ***
Noble vs. Karagias vs. Helms vs. Moore vs. Yang vs. Hayashi (12/17/00)- ***
Ric Flair vs. Sting (12/13/89)- ****
Greg Valentine vs. Roddy Piper (11/13/83)- ****1/4
The Road Warriors vs. The Midnight Express (12/27/86)- **
Hollywood Hogan vs. Sting (12/28/97)- *1/2
Harley Race vs. Ric Flair (11/24/83)- ****-****1/4
Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard (11/28/85)- *****
Ric Flair vs. Vader (12/27/93)- ****1/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Ah, that's probably why I was in shock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd recommend giving it a look. It's their rematch from Cyber Sunday and HBK isn't allowed to use the Sweet Chin Music. I hadn't watched it in a long time until a couple days ago and I love it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Did Triple H and Maven have a match on RAW? I remember Triple laying on the mat and Maven crawling to make the cover and J.R. screaming "Cover his ass! Cover his ass!" The crowd was also on fire.



Brye said:


> I'd recommend giving it a look. It's their rematch from Cyber Sunday and HBK isn't allowed to use the Sweet Chin Music. I hadn't watched it in a long time until a couple days ago and I love it.


Was also trying to remember if Orton and HBK had a match at SS 2007, then you brought up the stipulation and it all came back. Never saw the match though. Will give it a watch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> *They had two excellent matches. One in February and another for the World Title a couple of weeks after Backlash. Around early May that will be.*


*

Def need to look those up.



Brye said:



I'd recommend giving it a look. It's their rematch from Cyber Sunday and HBK isn't allowed to use the Sweet Chin Music. I hadn't watched it in a long time until a couple days ago and I love it.

Click to expand...

I remember that stip. Forgot they had a CS match. How was that? I don't remember that feud much so I'm hoping it's not because it sucked... *


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

sharkboy22 said:


> Did Triple H and Maven have a match on RAW? I remember Triple laying on the mat and Maven crawling to make the cover and J.R. screaming "Cover his ass! Cover his ass!" The crowd was also on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> Was also trying to remember if Orton and HBK had a match at SS 2007, then you brought up the stipulation and it all came back. Never saw the match though. Will give it a watch.


Yeah, I believe it was the first Raw after SVS 2004, and Maven was GM and put himself in the WHC match.

Match was alright from what I remember, but of course JR commentary like the quote in there is what makes alright matches good, good matches great, great matches awesome, and awesome matches classics (or contributes to it anyway).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What made the Maven/HHH match epic was all the interference. Sometimes interference is annoying, other times it makes it epic.



The Lady Killer said:


> Def need to look those up.


Go for it. They are both excellent, specially the second one. It was on 3rd May I think.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Def need to look those up.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember that stip. Forgot they had a CS match. How was that? I don't remember that feud much so I'm hoping it's not because it sucked...


It was solid, about ***1/2. In the grand scheme of things it sort of just set up the SS match but it's not bad. Taker/Tista from that show though, OWNS!

And check it out, SharkBoy. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton vs Michaels Survivor Series 2007 = :mark: :mark: :mark:

it demolishes that weak Hell in a Cell by comparison.

Orton/Michaels Cyber Sunday is good. I'll second Brye on that. DQ finish didn't bother me. It lead to something that worked out.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Yeah*, these would for sure be on my top 10 Raw matches list:

Bret/Kid 
Owen/Davey
Austin & Michaels/Owen & Davey
Powertrip/Non-drawing, Canadian, Vanilla Midgets 
Michaels/Benoit in Arizona
Michaels/Shelton Goldrush
Michaels/Cena 4/23/07

I'll have to think about/rewatch Michaels/Razor 8/94, Michaels/Kid 96, Michaels/Mankind 8/97, 10-Man Tag in Dallas, Edge/Hardy Street Fight, Edge/Flair TLC, Edge/Michaels 07 Street Fight, Christian/Jericho Cage Match, TLC IV, Angle/Benoit Cage, Taker/Hardy Ladder Match, Eddie/RVD Ladder Match, Michaels/HHH Dec. 03, and probably others I'm not thinking about right now.

Those Evolution tags were great especially the go home show to Backlash and the night after Bad Blood 2004. 



The Lady Killer said:


> I don't remember that AT ALL. I remember HBK's return but nothing about their match.
> 
> Edit - Didn't Benoit and HBK have a really good Raw match leading up to Mania 20?


It's a classic and so is Benoit/Michaels from Arizona. This is what I wrote about Orton/Michaels a few months ago:



Clique said:


> *Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Survivor Series 11/18/2007*
> 
> 
> *“Both men are forced to wrestle and it’s great to see a pure wrestling match here for the WWE Title.”* _– J.R._
> ...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That entire part of the year is such a blur to me, even though I know there was some good stuff going on at the time.

edit - Ah yes, thanks Clique. I remember all the submissions HBK attempted.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/HBK > Batista/Taker from SVS 07. That's a classic match and one of the few bright spots in the dark second half of 2007. Haven't seen their CS matches but they should be good too.

And HBK using the Crossface & Ankle Lock long after Benoit & Angle were memories for WWE fans was such a mark out moment!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rickey said:


> That match! :shocked: Just saw it, very fun. Nice ending, Hunico's becoming one of my favorites.
> 
> Also thanks for posting that match Brye, added it too my watch later list. I remember the big spot in that match but not the entire match. Will check it out soon enough.


Yeah it's a blast of a match. ***1/2.

6 man tag is another uber fun match to watch. I loved it.

:lmao @ someone mentioning Taka/HHH in here. holy SHIT my level of excitement being a kid watching that was unreal. I legit thought Taka beat him. Especially with the Michinoku driver. Awesome, awesome, awesome. (Y)

Greg, go watch HBK/Orton now plz. I own it. So I can watch it anytime.  [meaningless brag/]


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Orton vs Michaels Survivor Series 2007 = :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> it demolishes that weak Hell in a Cell by comparison.
> 
> Orton/Michaels Cyber Sunday is good. I'll second Brye on that. DQ finish didn't bother me. It lead to something that worked out.


When I said Taker/Tista I was talking about the CS one, my favorite in the series.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Greg, go watch HBK/Orton now plz. I own it. So I can watch it anytime.  [meaningless brag/]


I'm sure I own it too on VHS somewhere. I used to order every PPV and record them. My VHS library of WWE PPVs from 95-present is ridiculous.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> When I said Taker/Tista I was talking about the CS one, my favorite in the series.


Oh, I figured. I just had to compare it to HIAC since both were on the same show. 

Cyber Sunday - Taker/Batista > Orton/Michaels
Survivor Series - Orton/Michaels > Taker/Batista

imo.

Greg, you still have a working VHS player? Bastard. Mine crapped out. Now I can't watch my WCW PPVs.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's super finnicky. Tapes get stuck every now and then if I try to fast forward/rewind too many times. If I'm just watching something all the way through (which isn't super thrilling for some of those mid-90s PPVs :side, it works fine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Better than nothing. If you have Canadian Stampede then you'll be the real GOAT. (fuck that thread)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I do have it. Would need to search long and hard for it, though. I started a project of popping all the tapes in and labeling them so that I could find things more easily when I wanted, but that was over 10 years ago. I've added a lot since then. Not sure why I just don't label them as I record them. Laziness, I guess.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wasn't really digging Orton/HBK SS tbh. It felt as if HBK was just pulling submissions out of his ass coming down to the end. Don't get me wrong it's a good match but I wouldn't call it one of the best of all time or even for the year of 2007. 

***1/2

Gonna watch Taker/Batista CS. I've a heard a lot of great stuff about the match. Tbh, I didn't find their WM 23 match all that.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I wasn't really digging Orton/HBK SS tbh. It felt as if HBK was just pulling submissions out of his ass coming down to the end. Don't get me wrong it's a good match but I wouldn't call it one of the best of all time or even for the year of 2007.
> 
> ***1/2
> 
> Gonna watch Taker/Batista CS. I've a heard a lot of great stuff about the match. Tbh, I didn't find their WM 23 match all that.


It's been some months since I watched Taker/Batista CS. But from what I recall it's a damn good match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

While we are on the topic of VHS tapes, goddamit I had so many when I was younger. I use to record almsot every damn thing as a kid. I even have (or should I say had, my freaking dad re-taped all my damn wrestling!!!) Booker T vs Goldust from Heat whatever year it was, my guess would be 2001.

I had an episode of SD too. I didn't get the channel for SD (until about 2002 cause that's when I recall actually watching SD with my cable box) but somehow the local VHS store used to have them on tape. I can't remember the episode too well but from what I recall it was something to do with Steph and HHH and Shane in the ring cutting a promo. I'm guessing 2001 again. 

But holy shit, I taped every damn RAW as a kid. I even taped a couple shows in 2006 as well (that's when I started re-watching). But they're all gone sadly 

Damn, I may be the youngest poster here but I've been watching wrestling since I was in diapers. It feels good to be this young and remember moments such as DX throwing Foley and Funk off the stage, Rock throwing Austin over the bridge, Kane and Taker inferno match and so much other fucking moments lol. I wish I had my tapes


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I do have it. Would need to search long and hard for it, though. I started a project of popping all the tapes in and labeling them so that I could find things more easily when I wanted, but that was over 10 years ago. I've added a lot since then. Not sure why I just don't label them as I record them. Laziness, I guess.


Pay me salary and I'll do it. 

personal assistant to all things 'rasslin.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Might take you up on that, actually.

I also want to convert them all to DVD at some point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a job I know I can do well.

You should start putting some to DVD asap. Who knows how long it will take you to complete your entire collection.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Fresh off the heels of my Starrcade DVD review...

*WWE Presents... The Triumph & Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling

Quick Thoughts: A solid DVD, this wasn't the best recollection of how things actually went down in World Class, but if you never knew about the promotion then this still does a good job of delivering the story to you. Most of the matches themselves are nothing special (This is the midsouth territory after all) but the Cage Match between Flair/Kevin still holds up.*

Ricky Starr vs. Duke Keomuka (X/X/X)- ***
King Kong Bundy vs. Fritz Von Erich (7/14/82)- *
Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/25/82)- ****+
Parsons, Kevin V Erich & David V Erich vs. Rogers, Hayes & Gordy (X/X/X)- ***
Iceman Parsons vs. Buddy Rogers (6/17/83)- *1/4
The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (5/6/84)- *
Chris Adams & Sunshine vs. Jimmy Garvin & Precious (5/6/84)- *
The Great Kabuki vs. Kamala (5/6/84)- DUD
The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (5/5/85)- **
Chris Adams vs. Kevin Von Erich (7/21/85)- **3/4
Bruiser Brody & The Missing Link vs. One Man Gang & Rick Rude (10/X/86)- **
Bruiser Brody vs. Abdullah the Butcher (10/12/86)- DUD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The documentary > the matches. There is a more gritty WCCW doc called Heroes of World Class. If you haven't seen it I reccomend it.

You reviewed the Starrcade set, eh. What did you think of Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas? Best match on the set, imo. Tied w/Magnum vs Tully.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey what do you guys think of Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit in 2004 before Wrestlemania 20?

For me it's a really entertaining TV main event with some nice back and forth. One of those matches that you don't want to see end because you're so caught up in the action.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Hey what do you guys think of Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit in 2004 before Wrestlemania 20?
> 
> For me it's a really entertaining TV main event with some nice back and forth. One of those matches that you don't want to see end because you're so caught up in the action.


Their title match in May is better. Both are great, though. I just don't remember much from this one (where HBK wins after HHH distracts Benoit) compared to that. ***3/4 IIRC.

And speaking of Raw matches, just came off watching another solid Raw tag match from 31/1/2005. HBK/Orton vs Flair/HHH. *** is my rating. I just don't get why in the world Snitsky and Kane main event the show AGAIN with their boring, uninteresting feud!

Youtube is dead, so I have to go for dailymotion instead. Part 1 and Part 2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh. At least they tried to make Kane vs Snitsky feel like it was a feud worth time. I'll give them credit there. We don't get that now. Plus wasn't that the match where they jumped off the stage to end the show? and you can clearly hear them talking


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I'll give that May match a watch now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Let's see, what have I missed?

HBK/Orton SS 07 is awesome of course. I love the HIAC from the same night but I'd possibly put this match above it. I really wish Edge/Ziggler from the RR in 2010 took more notes from HBK/Orton with Edge not being allowed to use the Spear. Instead of it being a great match like it could have been, it was pretty basic and not that great. I see **** ratings for it and it absolutely baffles me lol. Edge played up on the fact he couldn't use the spear as little as possible. Bah.

Top 10 Raw matches... eh, I'd need more time to think. And less alcohol. But that Raw 97 tag that was mentioned earlier wouldn't come near my top 10 list. Its good, but nowhere near great.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> The documentary > the matches. There is a more gritty WCCW doc called Heroes of World Class. If you haven't seen it I reccomend it.
> 
> You reviewed the Starrcade set, eh. What did you think of Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas? Best match on the set, imo. Tied w/Magnum vs Tully.


Yeah I saw the Heroes of World Class, but I would just assume more people saw WWE's set.

As far as that tag from 92, I gave it ****1/4 I really dug it, tag team wrestling at its finest but I don't think that it's the level of Tully/TA that cage match has a special place in my heart lol.

Here is my full review of the Starrcade set if you want to see it:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12215779-post8260.html


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For the ultimate WCCW experience, you need the WWE release, the independent Heroes of World Class release, and then the DVDVR Best of Texas 1980's set.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Yeah I saw the Heroes of World Class, but I would just assume more people saw WWE's set.
> 
> As far as that tag from 92, I gave it ****1/4 I really dug it, tag team wrestling at its finest but I don't think that it's the level of Tully/TA that cage match has a special place in my heart lol.
> 
> ...


(Y)

****3/4 for me. One of my favorite tag team matches ever. Only one off the top of my head that trumps it is Midnight Express vs Southern Boys GAB '90.

Tully/Magnum cage is legendary in every sense. Understandable to put it on a pedestal. I do to.

I might have to post my thoughts on the Starrcade set in bit. Think I need to rewatch Flair/Dusty though. I remember not caring for it, to my surprise.

@ KingCal - ***3/4 for Edge/Ziggler. It worked for me. (I like Edge a lot tho)


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> ****3/4 for me. One of my favorite tag team matches ever. Only one off the top of my head that trumps it is Midnight Express vs Southern Boys GAB '90.
> 
> ...


No doubt I can see why you dug Dragon/Douglas vs. Windham/Pillman, excellent stuff and hell yes for Express/Southern Boys now that's the southern formula and tag team wrestling worked to perfection.

Yeah I have a friend who didn't care for Flair/Dusty either but knew some others who liked it, I guess it depends.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> I'll give that May match a watch now.


It'll be worth it.



Hailsabin said:


> Eh. At least they tried to make Kane vs Snitsky feel like it was a feud worth time. I'll give them credit there. We don't get that now. Plus wasn't that the match where they jumped off the stage to end the show? and you can clearly hear them talking


I know, I know. I may be bashing it here but that's because I have been spoiled in those Raw shows with the likes of Benoit, Jericho, Evolution, Orton, HBK and Muhammad Hassan. I still take Kane/Snitsky at their worst over Raw is Punk 2012. As for the stage bump... no, that was two or three weeks before it in a No Holds Barred match. The one I just finished was a steel cage match and admittedly, not as bad as I expected it to be. Probably because it was short. Although logic be damned there. Both Kane and Snitsky were standing on the steel steps outside the cage door at one point but instead walked back in. :lol


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> It'll be worth it.



I personally think their match from earlier that year was better than this one, which was good in its own right.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> *Foley/Orton, Backlash 2004 - ****1/2
> HHH/HBK/Benoit, Backlash 2004 - ****1/2
> Lesnar/HHH, Summerslam 12 - ****1/4
> Lesnar/Goldberg, Mania XX - :lmao*
> ...


Forgot to add my thoughts because I was in a rush earlier on. For anybody who cares lol...

*Foley/Orton* - I dare anybody to say Orton hasn't earned his stripes after watching this match. Legend Killer Orton, as a character, is criminally underrated imo. He was perfect in the role HHH/Flair cast for him and backed up everything they said about him too. The thumb tack spot and the diving elbow off the stage are sick. Just a flat out war between these two with Foley doing what he does best; making other guys look a million bucks. Randy Orton officially arrives when this thing is over and to this day this remains one of his best matches ever imo.

*HHH/HBK/Benoit* - :lmao at the crowd. Constant YOU SCREWED BRET and YOU TAPPED OUT chants. The Hebner stuff was awesome and I'm pretty sure made most folks there shit a brick, haha. Another awesome match but it had no chance of living up to the Mania XX triple threat. It really says something when a match can be this good and still only be in second place. The ending is beautiful too.

*Lesnar/HHH* - I know I'm in the minority with this one but I absolutely adore this thing. The arm work from Lesnar is sublime. Everything he does targets the arm right from the get go. I marked the fuck out when he took his gloves off. What a BADASS moment followed with a great big punch to the back of the head. Brilliance. Trips sells like a trooper and I love the story they told in this thing. Hunter accidentally stumbling upon the monsters weakness is wonderful and holy fucking Christ did Brock ever sell that thing like death. As much of a massive HHH mark I am, I marked out for Brock Lesnar in this match way more than Hunter. The man is not human. 

*Lesnar/Goldberg* - THIS MATCH SUCKS! THIS MATCH SUCKS! Yeah, I don't blame you NYC lol. Nothing much to say here except :lmao.

HHH is a master at making you believe that the other guy has him beat. As a child that Taka match had me in a rage lol. I thought he was done, haha. HHH/Taka, HHH/Maven, HHH/Shelton, HHH/Eugene are all examples of what I'm talking about. Complete edge of your seat stuff because as the match progresses you start to think that maybe the other guy is actually in with a shot of beating the Game. Great stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt_Yoda said:


> No doubt I can see why you dug Dragon/Douglas vs. Windham/Pillman, excellent stuff and hell yes for Express/Southern Boys now that's the southern formula and tag team wrestling worked to perfection.
> 
> Yeah I have a friend who didn't care for Flair/Dusty either but knew some others who liked it, I guess it depends.


I'm usually big on anything that involves Barry Windham. Toss in Steamboat & Pillman. I'm sold.

Indeed. It didn't do anything for me. Don't know if a re-watch will change that. I've seen it plenty of times already.



Choke2Death said:


> I know, I know. I may be bashing it here but that's because I have been spoiled in those Raw shows with the likes of Benoit, Jericho, Evolution, Orton, HBK and Muhammad Hassan. I still take Kane/Snitsky at their worst over Raw is Punk 2012. As for the stage bump... no, that was two or three weeks before it in a No Holds Barred match. The one I just finished was a steel cage match and admittedly, not as bad as I expected it to be. Probably because it was short. Although logic be damned there. Both Kane and Snitsky were standing on the steel steps outside the cage door at one point but instead walked back in. :lol


See, I missed all of that stuff because I was w/o cable at the time. So much of RAW 05 is a blur pardon the summer when I was able to watch (which is how I recall Angle/Flair) and all the moments/matches that have gotten praise via dvd sets. Thankfully I got to witness a bulk of the Edge/Hardy program.

Kane vs Snitsky matches. Got to love em....as guilty pleasures.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> HHH is a master at making you believe that the other guy has him beat.


Trips definitely has a skill for that and because of the way he's been built over the years it works even better. That's why his Mania put overs of Benoit, Batista, and Cena felt special too.

Flair was a master at doing that as the heel champion with virtually every babyface/hometown challenger that he faced. There's an absolutely beautiful match he had with Brian Pillman in 1990 that featured Flair on the ropes for a good portion of the match. Pillman came out of that thing looking like a million bucks.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That's why they're the GOAT heels. Btw, Flair on the mic > everybody that ever lived. Jesus Christ this guy is pure entertainment the second he opens his mouth. I watched a few of his interviews in between matches on the PPV's and couldn't stop :lmao. Even Batista and HHH were holding back their markdom when he's going off on one. Awesome lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mick Foley deserves to be mentioned in terms of promo work/making guys look like a million bucks in the ring.

he usually put them over, but still. IMO


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yes to Foley. Just look at his work with HHH, Orton, and Edge and what those feuds/matches mean to those guys. Rock and Foley had a really strong feud too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Flair is pure entertainment. He always makes me laugh with that voice and his constant WOOOOOOOOs! Specially love it when he flips out after getting banned from ringside or when he cheap-shots somebody and walks off doing his trademark strut. Plus he ALWAYS loves taking a back body drop. He NEVER counters an Irish Whip and the result is always the same. :lmao



andersonasshole900 said:


> I personally think their match from earlier that year was better than this one, which was good in its own right.


Everyone has their preference. Both are almost as good (or equal depending on who you ask).



Hailsabin said:


> See, I missed all of that stuff because I was w/o cable at the time. So much of RAW 05 is a blur pardon the summer when I was able to watch (which is how I recall Angle/Flair) and all the moments/matches that have gotten praise via dvd sets. Thankfully I got to witness a bulk of the Edge/Hardy program.
> 
> Kane vs Snitsky matches. Got to love em....as guilty pleasures.


I missed out on all of that simply because I was too slow. :sad:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yep. I mentioned Foley when talking about the Orton match. He did it for Orton, Edge and HHH himself. All huge put over jobs. I was talking about in less important matches I suppose where the obvious story is that the guy can't hang with the likes of Flair or Hunter but by the end of the match you're thinking holy fuck this might just happen...but it doesn't lol. That's the beauty of it I suppose. 

Foley is no doubt in the top tier of mic workers. Flair is just on another level from everybody though. Imo of course. I could watch him talk, strut, woooo and drop elbows on his jacket all day long lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Plus he ALWAYS loves taking a back body drop. He NEVER counters an Irish Whip and the result is always the same. :lmao


Honestly, I mark pretty hard for Flair's backdrops and all of his signature spots like the toss from the top rope, the knife edge chops, or when he falls face first to the ground. It is his routine and people call it repetitive but THAT'S what I want to see in a Ric Flair match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DAT RIC FLAIR FACE FIRST FALL

Check that out for alliteration lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Honestly, I mark pretty hard for Flair's backdrops and all of his signature spots like the toss from the top rope, the knife edge chops, or when he falls face first to the ground. It is his routine and people call it repetitive but THAT'S what I want to see in a Ric Flair match.


Same here. I don't like it when something is predictable but there are some that get away with it and Flair is an example. The crowd also agrees as they always cheer every time he falls on his face. My favorite of his trademarks is when he overreacts, though.

Loved the segment with Eddie Guerrero in the 05 Rumble. Here is it for whoever has missed it. WWE have really raped YouTube hard recently. Can't find ANYTHING on there, just hope dailymotion doesn't have the same happening to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I learn towards Foley only the slightest margin you could ever imagine. All the love in the world to Flair though. Don't see how anyone couldn't list him as the best. In any aspect of the biz.

Foley though. Damn. He makes me really love this sport more than I already do. Something about his words that come out speak to me. It's quite astounding really. His "Anti-Hardcore" promo that's on his Greatest Hits & Misses set is my all time favorite wrestling promo. Now I love plenty, but that one is the one that spoke volumes to me.

they don't have it on youtube, but here's another brilliant showing:


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Now I just have to throw out when Ric Flair tried to eliminate Big Dave at the Royal Rumble. Him falling over and his reaction and mannerisms afterwards had me in tears. Damn I love Ric.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Same here. I don't like it when something is predictable but there are some that get away with it and Flair is an example. The crowd also agrees as they always cheer every time he falls on his face. My favorite of his trademarks is when he overreacts, though.


I feel there's a difference between giving the people something predictable and weak and implementing your routine which is over with the people and what they expect to see from you when they pay money for a Ric Flair match, a Rock promo, etc. It has to be done creatively though and fit nicely within the story which FLair has done tremendously well for well over 30 years. I love the Flair overreactions too.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I recently purchased Ric Flair: Definitive Collection. Proper pumped to give it a watch because as you guys have said he is so damn entertaining, both in ring and on the mic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Guerrero?! GUERRERO STOLE MY NUMBER!

_*later on*_

My wallet?! I'LL GET YOU.

<3 Flair & Eddie.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That's another thing, Flair in the 2000s and beyond is pure entertainment. I don't see any reason why he should have called it quits when people said he was too old for the business. Flair's role in Evolution was perfect, Flair had multiple good matches and performances in WWE and even a strong showing with Foley in TNA, and he's still can be one of the best promos in the business today. He was hilarious in his TNA run. WRESTLING GOD!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fortune in 2010 was an awesome faction. Flair actually made his TNA run sucessful. Plus he added in making the 2011 Lethal Lockdown match the best. Plus, how could you not mention the hilarious moments when he was ICED. His chugging powers are masterful. 

Oh and another one that gave me goosebumps atm: (Game's face is priceless)






MICK FOLEY


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the past 5 pages and so on...

- Orton/HBK SS 07 > Batista/Taker SS 07 HOWEVER...... Batista/Taker series > Anything Orton has ever done 

- HHH-Maven is awesome, and another match in the formula of "OMGZ SUM SCRUB MIGHTZ BEAT THE CEREBRAL ASSASSIN!" . JR calls a HHH match better than any other wrestler (dead serious. Just look at the overall track record) and this match is definitely no exception. Hunter's 04-06 (pre DX) run is one of the most underrated in history, and the only other time he flashed signs of consistent 2000 goodiness

- Flair is the greatest wrestler at practically EVERYTHING EVER. Old man Flair fucking rocks and I'd honestly give that Flair/Edge match ***** 1/4* , seriously it's a personal favorite of mine. Foley might be the best SERIOUS promo guy out there (the "cane dewey" promo is perhaps the greatest serious promo in the history of wrestling) , but when it comes to mic skills, I hold the belief that both Flair and Foley make Rock look like a little bitch on the mic (like I mentioned, the Wrestlemania XXVII opening promo is one of the worst ever). The Flair flop is amazing, check out Flair/Batista vs Benoit/Regal from Unforgiven 2004 , MOTN for sure and another personal favorite.

- In my eyes, Lesnar-HHH is the third greatest Summerslam main event ever IMO, with Taker-Edge being number one and Bulldog-Bret being number 2. My love for Trips and Bork puts it over Punk/Hardy, HBK/Vader (which I fucking ADORE) , Benoit/Orton , and Team Nexus vs Team WWE. Look, I just made a top 6 SS main events ever, wasn't THAT easy ? 

- The 2005 RR match is one of the best Rumble's IMO. The Edge/HBK match while good, could have been SO much more (never was the biggest fan of their chemistry). The two championship matches are great while the WWE Championship match fucking rocks and gets **** 3/4* from me. JBL actually wasn't that bad when it came to his in ring work as champion, much better than the likes of Orton's last WWE Championship run, Sheamus, Miz, Cena in 2011, etc. That casket match though.... Fuck that to hell honestly. Does Taker INSIST on being put with these shitty workers over and over again ? If anything though, it shows the confidence that they have in him as a worker, and I'm willing to bet that WWE values him as a top 3 in ring worker ever. Big Show even mentions on his doc how Taker would blast him for the most miniscule things, and how he paid such great attention to detail. Taker is the player/coach of the WWE, and if you can hang with Taker you can go places (look at Orton as the shining example).

- LOVED <3 the backstage number drawing segments at the Rumble during the brand extension. Flair/Eddie was AMAZING, while Trips/Orton had a pretty hilarious exchange in 2006, probably the third best thing they've accomplished together ahahahahaha


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

So what does everyone think of he Eddie/Rey/Dominick angle in 2005? Eddie plays the twisted scumbag heel perfectly and Rey is obviously naturally likeable. The feud is just so natural and results in a brilliant Summerslam ladder match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> That's another thing, Flair in the 2000s and beyond is pure entertainment. I don't see any reason why he should have called it quits when people said he was too old for the business. Flair's role in Evolution was perfect, Flair had multiple good matches and performances in WWE and even a strong showing with Foley in TNA, and he's still can be one of the best promos in the business today. He was hilarious in his TNA run. WRESTLING GOD!


I think the one problem is the fact he was given such an excellent send off in the WWE with the Hall of Fame induction and the HBK match only for him to go to TNA because he couldn't save his money if his life depended on it. Similarly, many people feel HBK shouldn't return since the Taker match at WM26 was the perfect way to end a legendary career.

I wont hate as long as they can entertain, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK that Dominick angle, completely RUINED that ladder match for me. I enjoy the Wrestlemania match between Rey and Eddie over that one just because it didn't have a stupid fucking angle behind it (and the Wrestlemania XXI match is the most overrated fucking match EVER) .

Flair-Foley LMS TNA 10 > Flair-Foley I Quit WWE 06

:flair WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Flair can do this shit until he says he doesn't want anymore as long as he's entertaining me. If the guy needs money then let him make a living. Of course he's not 1980's Nature Boy but I thought he added a lot of entertainment in the last 10 years or so when people were saying he should have been retired during that period even then.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed. Flair should NEVER RETIRE BABY! :flair2

The Michael Jordan / Wayne Gretzky of wrestling, hands down. Suck his saggy tits Rocky !


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll happily take Flair back as the GM or a mouthpiece for somebody. Hell, if they let him go around cutting promos like this...






...then IDGAF what the hell he does. Maybe it would wake some of the current roster the fuck up. Good lord did he ever own the shit out of Carlito there. Truth bombs all around.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Eddie/Mysterio angle sucked. It didn't need it. And I never once got behind Mysterio for being "likable" or an underdog. I liked him because he was a marvel of a talent. Fuck that realize the size of my heart bullshit. Shut up and wrestle. That's the best option for Rey.

Choke2Death is spot on with why Flair working matches in TNA left a sour taste in fans' mouth. He got the perfect send-off then he goes and works matches following it. Most wanted him to simply stay retired. It wasn't ideal for me, but I'm not gonna lie and say I didn't enjoy seeing Flair back in the mix. Especially when he had one of the best matches within TNA during 2010 vs MICK FOLEY.

EDIT ~ as a guy who always hated Carlito, that promo was bliss.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Guess I'm in the minority then about Eddie/Rey :side:

As for Flair, yes he should have been done after Wrestlemania 24 and he tarnished his legacy somewhat by continuing in TNA. However if they bring him back as a manager he could certainly help whoever he manages. Ziggler would be a good option because of the obvious similarities.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Did Flair ask for the retirement angle with Michaels and later just change his mind about wrestling?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One of the greatest promos ever, mad respect for that motherfucker...

Who takes the cake as the second greatest "total package" (no, not you Lex) ever ? Would it be Austin (even though from a dual in-ring/mic standpoint, Austin only really had one GOAT year and that would be 2001) ? I can't think of anybody else because until 97, Bret sucked dick on the mic, and Shawn was up and down more than a sleazy whore throughout his career. We don't hear enough shit from Taker due to gimmick constraints , but he has clearly proven himself as an all time great mic worker (everybody knows about his outstanding in ring work).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't watch TNA so as far as I'm concerned he retired in 2008 with that wonderful send off lol. I just hope this stupid contract lawsuit thing between WWE and TNA will be over soon so he can come back in some capacity. I think it's pretty much inevitable tbh. I don't see him wrestling when he does though. He'll be a GM most likely and I'm fine with that. Hell, maybe Trips can take him to developmental with him. That would be a wealth of knowledge for the young guns to tap into, well, unless they're GUYS LIKE CARLITO lol.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

He can't go in the ring anymore at all. As an on-screen character though that would be good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

A whole new generation of wrestlers learning Wrestling the Flair/HHH way would guran-damn-tee my watching of the product for another 78 years atleast. Shit would be fucking epic.


:hhh :vince2 :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker _IS_ stellar on the mic. You're right, we don't hear that enough.

Flair should be the new GM since this stupid AJ/Cena stuff had her removed.

Now it's for me to watch Cena/Show - Smackdown 2/27/09. :mark:


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Truth/Kofi vs. Hawkins/Reks was a pretty fun tag match really enjoyed the commentary on the match too. Scott Stamford saying "He's Reksy and he knows it" came outta nowhere. :lmao


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> One of the greatest promos ever, mad respect for that motherfucker...
> 
> Who takes the cake as the second greatest "total package" (no, not you Lex) ever ? Would it be Austin (even though from a dual in-ring/mic standpoint, Austin only really had one GOAT year and that would be 2001) ? I can't think of anybody else because until 97, Bret sucked dick on the mic, and Shawn was up and down more than a sleazy whore throughout his career. We don't hear enough shit from Taker due to gimmick constraints , but he has clearly proven himself as an all time great mic worker (everybody knows about his outstanding in ring work).


Along with who you mentioned - Savage, Angle, and Eddie spring to mind as guys with the total package.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HOW DID I FORGET SAVAGE (bangs head off door repeatedly in act of self abuse as punishment) , the guy is legit my 3rd or 4th favorite ever (I flip-flop between him and Punk believe it or not, with HHH and Flair being 1 and 2 respectively). Haven't seen too much of Angle's TNA work, but from what I've heard he's only shown FLASHES of being great with a ton of shit in the middle.

Watching Judgment Day 2007 now, owned it for about 3 months but had no motivation to watch it because it's the definition of an "angle-advancing" PPV and I don't have much interest in that....AT ALL. Not a single "great" match on this card IIRC, but that Flair-Carlito opener is just so damn fun. Fuck Carlito though, legit. He can't hang with da GOAT :flair3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't forget Jericho and THE ROCK!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle? nah. Far too much shit he's pumped out to be grouped with the rest of the good ones.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What I'm asking is, is there anybody besides Flair who is top 10-15 in both in-ring presence AND on the mic. The closest three would HAVE to be Savage, Austin, and Eddie, wouldn't it ? All around I'd DEFINITELY put Savage top 5, one of the best on the mic ever coupled with his unmistakeable consistency and big match performances.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

He might not be as good as the others but he at one period - awesome promos (comedic or intense), super entertaining character (heel or face), and great in the ring. That is a total package, right?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Best total Packages for me go Flair, Funk, Savage, Austin, Eddie, Lawler in no order. Borderline would be HHH, Punk, Jericho, and Cena (for all the hate cena gets for his character his talent in the ring and on the mic is undeniable)

Flair and Funk are 1 and 1a for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't name a good Kurt Angle promo off the top of my head, tbqh.

Funny ones were funny, nothing major. Intensity ones are garbage. Always feels like he tries too hard.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Hailsabin said:


> I can't name a good Kurt Angle promo off the top of my head, tbqh.
> 
> funny ones were funny. nothing major. intensity ones are garbage. hated that character.


Angle's one of the most overrated wrestlers of all time in my personal opinion. He's an incredible athlete, but he can't put on a great match where he is the controlling worker. He has to be with a good worker, his best matches were with old school workers, for example Austin, Taker, Benoit etc. Angle has barely any grasp on psychology. His character work is ok for me. His comedic heel character was his best work. His promos are ok, he hasn't had a moment for me where I have to go back and watch it again. It's not that he's bad it's more of the fact that he doesn't deserve the placement he gets by modern wrestling fans as one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I thought Angle was quite funny in 2000-2001 as a goofy heel with the three I's stuff and then his work with Austin in the Invasion angle was very entertaining. There was a promo he did before SummerSlam 01 that were he was all fired up that I thought was really good too. The promo he did on Taker in 06, I remember the line "Undertaker, when that bell rings...I don't have a soul either" was delivered strongly. 

But I understand some people don't like the way Angle works in the ring and that's fine too. Sometimes I compare him to an action movie with a lot of explosions and gunfire and that is fun to watch too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Kurt's NYR 06 Promo is his best and one of the best of the year for sure. Probably my favorite "funny" promo ever, and Angle as the "wrestling machine" character is one of my personal favorite gimmicks ever (if it really was a gimmick...Probably not ) 

*DFUSCMAN*, I absolutely adore your list and YOU my sir have become repped. I love it when people actually have the balls to put current stars over the stars of the past even though they're far inferior in alot of cases. I once heard somebody put Junkyard Dog over Cena, what the fuck. Funk doesn't get enough love in the E', should be mentioned as a top 10 all time legend for sure, a fucking BEAST. 

In terms of Punk/Cena , I'd put their overall chemistry in ring and out above Rock and Austin. When you step outside the realm of nostalgia and look objectively , it's not that far of a stretch (although I completely understand if you'd enjoy Rock/Austin more). Since Wrestlemania XXVI when HBK retired and Taker/HHH went part-time, Punk has been the hands down Best in the World, and I believe if you can be the best in the E' for 2+ years, you should be able to lay claim as a top 15 ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Angle's one of the most overrated wrestlers of all time in my personal opinion. He's an incredible athlete, but he can't put on a great match where he is the controlling worker. He has to be with a good worker, his best matches were with old school workers, for example Austin, Taker, Benoit etc. Angle has barely any grasp on psychology. His character work is ok for me. It's not that he's bad it's more of the fact that he doesn't deserve the placement he gets by modern wrestling fans as one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.


Chuck Guerrero in too. He meshed well with Mysterio. At least he did in the 9 minute blitzkreig vs him @ Summerslam 2002. He does get overrated by people. Taz being the number one guy.



Clique said:


> I thought Angle was quite funny in 2000-2001 as a goofy heel with the three I's stuff and then his work with Austin in the Invasion angle was very entertaining. There was a promo he did before SummerSlam 01 that were he was all fired up that I thought was really good too. The promo he did on Taker in 06, I remember the line "Undertaker, when that bell rings...I don't have a soul either" was delivered strongly.
> 
> But I understand some people don't like the way Angle works in the ring and that's fine too. Sometimes I compare him to an action movie with a lot of explosions and gunfire and that is fun to watch too.


Oh, I love wacky Kurt. I really do. His funny stuff was fine. Simply nothing impactful to the biz. Just entertaining. Kurt wearing the tiny cowboy hat w/Austin & Vince in '01 had me in stitches. Using a milk truck to one-up Austin & the Alliance = gold. Not to mention all of the unintentional comedy stuff he's given us over the years.

His intensity stuff never won me over. That's when my interest in Kurt peaked, then began to fade. He was better being wacky/semi-serious Kurt or 2003 athlete Kurt imo.

Ha. The Michael Bay movie of wrestling. That fits perfectly when you look at it.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Kurt's NYR 06 Promo is his best and one of the best of the year for sure. Probably my favorite "funny" promo ever, and Angle as the "wrestling machine" character is one of my personal favorite gimmicks ever (if it really was a gimmick...Probably not )
> 
> *DFUSCMAN*, I absolutely adore your list and YOU my sir have become repped. I love it when people actually have the balls to put current stars over the stars of the past even though they're far inferior in alot of cases. I once heard somebody put Junkyard Dog over Cena, what the fuck. Funk doesn't get enough love in the E', should be mentioned as a top 10 all time legend for sure, a fucking BEAST.
> 
> In terms of Punk/Cena , I'd put their overall chemistry in ring and out above Rock and Austin. When you step outside the realm of nostalgia and look objectively , it's not that far of a stretch (although I completely understand if you'd enjoy Rock/Austin more). Since Wrestlemania XXVI when HBK retired and Taker/HHH went part-time, Punk has been the hands down Best in the World, and I believe if you can be the best in the E' for 2+ years, you should be able to lay claim as a top 15 ever.


Thanks for the rep, and my reasoning for people rating cena and current stars so lowly is anger at the current product. It's not that the talent is as horrendous as people make it out to be, it's the fact that creative seemingly doesn't want to spend time on making a product that builds the talent and can create stars. 

Punk and Cena's in ring psychology together are the top 2 in ring chemistry of the past 15 years with HBK/Taker. That's not overrating it in the slightest, they put on magic any time they go out there. They play off each other's strengths so well. Cena sells punk's offense so well, and punk's marvelous as a heel worker controlling the match from facial expressions, interacting with the crowd, and having a brilliant heel offense. Punk sells cena's comebacks incredibly well and Cena's such a great babyface with Punk. I probably will never get tired of watching punk and cena wrestle.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Outside of Cena and Orton, I personally couldn't give a fuck less about today's talent and these two don't even belong in the same category as they came out right after the Attitude Era. I like Sheamus and Bryan but for the rest, completely indifferent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk. Cesaro. Henry. Rhodes. Show. Kidd. Gabriel. Hawkins. Christian. Dolph. Kane. Ryder. Sandow. Barrett. Primetime Players. Usos. Slater. McIntyre. Dibiase Jr. Curtis. Tatsu.

All of those guys are plenty capable too. Regardless of size or age. Clay isn't half bad when he's actually not stuck with a crap gimmick. Alex Riley has improved to work better matches so toss him in too. ADR is bland as a character, but he can work. idk about Bourne & Barreta being injured, but they're quality. Only a margin of the roster is flat. Most are actually quite good. Problem being only 5 make you give a damn via the piss poor booking & no character development.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I didn't include Christian, Henry, Kane and Big Show because they are from the AE. As for the rest, most have something good to offer but I mean in "full package"/main event worthy talent. Guys like Tyson Kidd and Cody Rhodes are solid talent but just don't have that main event "thing" to them. Then there are others like Sandow that need some more 'development' before I can judge them. I also like Ryback which I forgot to mention. But overall, there's the feeling of blandness among them that doesn't help at all when I'm trying to get into the shows. I don't know if it's booking that holds them back or whatever, but most of them have shown nothing to make me care about them. Then there's Punk who has gotten way more development than he should and I simply can't stand him at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've been seeing Cody Rhodes as a main eventer since 2010. This year should have been when he rose up. It was evident by his feud with Orton last year that's where he was headed. He's doing ok atm, but he should be doing more.

Ziggler & Cesaro can be main eventers too. Ziggler pretty much is(all he needs is that final thrust into it) and Cesaro is a lock. Not a doubt in my mind. Regardless of what WWE does with him. I know he has it.

You know where I stand on the Punk thing. So it's irrelevant to say all the same stuff over again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well... Ziggler is in a feud with Cena at the moment, so that pretty much gurantees that WWE thinks highly enough of him to make him world champion at sometime (plus he has MITB which I doubt he loses). Ryback (although he sucks) looks like a lock to be the next HUGE face sensation, while Cesaro could potentially win MITB next year (hope so) as he has all the potential in the world. As long as Barrett doesn't win a world title.... Fuck him :hhh

Punk is one of the greatest ever all around' bar none (especially in the E'). Just watched a match with the insanely shitty Elijah Burke, and Punk actually made the match pretty damn good (a feat that no normal man can accomplish). I think Punk is one of the only wrestlers EVER who can be a top 5 face and a top 5 heel. Orton used to be like that, but he sucks from a character standpoint as HAS sucked from a character standpoint since like 2010. When's the last memorable Randy Orton promo/interview you've ever seen ? How about the last classic Orton produced ? Henry carried him in two awesome matches last year (although his series with Christian was awesome too). I don't see how in any way, shape or form Orton is better than Punk.

I can name atleast 5 Punk matches better than Orton's best single's match (vs Foley BL ***** 1/4)*. Seriously. I know Everybody will disagree, but whatever (and C2D, I actually respect your opinion, because I respect people who will say unpopular things that they ACTUALLY believe in)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> I can name atleast 5 Punk matches better than Orton's best single's match (vs Foley BL ***** 1/4)*. Seriously. I know Everybody will disagree, but whatever (and C2D, I actually respect your opinion, because I respect people who will say unpopular things that they ACTUALLY believe in)


Hey, that's great. For a change there's a Punk fan that isn't butthurt about the fact I dislike him! I respect your opinion too and I've already told you that your reviews are superior to mine in several ways. Although some might tell me I'm too harsh on myself. (I'm my own biggest critic, lol)

And I can name at least 10 Orton matches I prefer to Punk's entire existence, so it differs from opinion to opinion.

And to answer before it's asked: vs Foley BL04, vs Benoit SS04, SD06 x2, vs Christian OTL11, vs Mysterio NWO06, SD06, vs HBK SVS07, vs Taker Arm05, vs HHH NM07.

Only Punk match I hold in VERY high regard is MITB with Cena.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread*

GREAT. FUCKING. JOB. *CLIQUE.*

Imagine if that match somehow makes Bret's unreleased collector's series DVD, I would fucking eat that shit up big time. Bret and Funk are arguably two top 5 in-ring talents ever, and if I do say so myself, you do a better job of making an individual want to watch a particular match than any other, you loveable bastard !

:hhh :hhh :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You supremely underrated Punk vs Danielson MITB though. You went my review Cena/HHH WrestleMania 22 on it. (yeah, I gave it a bs rating. I know that now. :hhh)

No matter who you like more, the catalogues of both men in WWE is rather sterling. That's the best thing to note with this.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb @ you coming around on Cena/HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can ignore my rampant burial attempt of it when I rewatched it. Give it some credit opposed to no credit.

not changing my opinion on Michaels/Hart Ironman though. Fuck that match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I've never been the biggest advocate of that match, but a DUD is EXTREME imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's TERRIBLE. Felt like they lazed around out there to make it go 60 minutes. I often credit it as the worst worked 60 minute match in wrestling. There might be some shitty indie match that does top it, but I'll probably never see it. So this gets the top slot.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It was almost as if they did a bunch of shit to kill time until the 60th minute so that HBK could writhe around in the Sharpshooter for the final 45 seconds.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All the highlights you see of the match occur in the last 2 minutes of the match too. 2 MINUTES. Not 5. Not 10. Not 15, but the final 2. They had 60 minutes to work with and they let the bulk of the offense flood out with only 120 seconds to go. Then add in 30 seconds worth of sharpshooter to end it.

ugh.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

*Undertaker vs CM Punk (Hell in a Cell) - **1/2*
Man I expected more from this. Sure its fast paced, but its only ten minutes long and nothing special happens. It was a poor man's version of Taker/HBK HIAC. Punk tries to bump for Undertaker by letting Undertaker throw him against the cell a few times, but other then that, not much. The ending is just kind of boring. Chokeslam from Undertaker, and then a Tombstone to finish the match.

*John Cena vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell) - ***1/4*
This was a good match, but only if it wasnt taking place inside the hell in a cell. Their segment on RAW a week earlier gave me high hopes for the match because Cena hit the AA on top of the cell. The match itself is good for an ordinary match, but there were no weapons used, besides the steel chair for a few seconds, and the ending was botched badly. Shame, because I always thought these guys could give us a classic.

*DX vs Legacy (Hell in a Cell) - *****
This is actually a hell of a match, and one of the better Hell in a Cell matches. The brawl before the actual match is awesome, and Legacy seperates HBK from HHH well. They beat the shit out of Shawn, They use the cell like pro's, and the steel chair comes into play as well. A lot of double team moves as well. I loved how the cell was used to keep HHH out, because that is exactly what it was supposed to do. Triple H comes in and we see some sick moves from DX, like an elbow drop on a steel chair wrapped around the neck, and a Superkick/Sledgehammer combo to the face. My only problem was that HBK could not handle both members of Legacy on his own, but HHH does it with no problem at all. It was still a sick match.

*Randy Orton vs Sheamus (Hell in a Cell) - *****
Yes, this is the match where Sheamus does the dumbest move of all time on the steel steps. I laughed my ass off, but this is still an awesome match, and it is very underrated. Both mean beat the shit out of each other. Powerslam on the steel steps, RKO on the steps, DDT on the concrete floor. Multiple RKO's, multiple Brogue Kicks, multiple shots from a steel chair, front suplex on the steel steps. A bunch of awesome moves. They used the cell pretty good at first, and then did awesome with the limited weapons they had. Very underrated in my opinion.

*Undertaker vs Kane (Hell in a Cell) - *1/4*
You know, this was one of my biggest dream matches before. This match was almost a DUD if it had not been for a few spots. The match is slow, the cell is barely used, and the steel chair is used for just a moment. There is a nice superplex, and the finisher kickouts were pretty fun, but then the stupid ass ending ruins everything. I just dont even know where to start with that stupid ending. A flashlight has defeated the legendary Undertaker.

*Mark Henry vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell) - **1/4*
Another shit hell in a cell match. The only advantage this has over Taker/Kane is that it has a clean ending and its not as long. What are the highlights of the mach you wonder? Are you ready? Powerslam on the floor outside the ring. Yep, thats it. The cell is used a bit in a generic way, and other then that this is just a normal match. Nothing special happens, besides Henry beating Orton clean with a suprise Worlds Strongest Slam.

*CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs John Cena (Hell in a Cell) - ***3/4*
Really good match, and one of the best matches of last year. All 3 men bump really well. They are thrown into the cage with a lot of force. CM Punks falls of the top rope to the outside through a table that was set up. A lot of fast paced action thanks to the triple threat concept, and a lot of big moves. There were a couple of times when I really thought the match was over. 

*CM Punk vs Ryback (Hell in a Cell) - ****
I thought both men played their roles better then in the Taker/Punk HIAC. Ryback looked like a real monster here. He just destroyed Punk, and no sold a lot of his moves. I loved how he didnt go down after the suicide dive for example. Punk played his role just perfect as well. He got beat the shit out of, but whenever he had a moment of offense, he went full speed. It was just move after move. You could tell that he was really scared in kayfabe. The cell is used a little bit, but this was more about keeping Punk locked up with no way out. The steel chair is used and the kendo stick, and fire extinguisher as well. There is one moment where Ryback rushes at Punk, he misses and slams into the steel steps. Destroys them, and leaves a big dent in them. The real reason why I love this match though is the aftermath. I consider it part of the match, and so my rating is this. He just destroys the referee after getting screwed over. He killed the referee when he threw him out of the ring into the cell. Then we get an epic moment when the camera shows both men climbing to the top of the cell. Ryback hits Shell Shocked on top of the cell to end the show with an awesome moment. I loved it.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How you liked the DX vs Legacy cell is beyond me. Hated the way that was worked. All wrong.

at least you enjoyed Orton/Sheamus. That's my pick for the most underrated HIAC. Said that some pages back. Well, I'll say it again. Boosh. (Y)


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> How you liked the DX vs Legacy cell is beyond me. Hated the way that was worked. All wrong.
> 
> at least you enjoyed Orton/Sheamus. That's my pick for the most underrated HIAC. Said that some pages back. Well, I'll say it again. Boosh. (Y)


I dont know how you could hate the DX/Legacy HIAC? Yes, it was kind of shitty how Triple H by himself did what HBK couldnt an entire match, but the rest of the match was great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You'd be in the minority for one who liked it. The way their first two PPV matches were done and then to see that? Blah. Should have been done with all 4 inside and letting the intensity boil over. Instead they took out H and beat up Shawn for 15 boring minutes only to be owned 2 minutes later when H got back in the ring. It's not a "omg DX buried them thing". It's simply just a bad way that they worked the match.

_Took a look at some Cena/Show matches today_:

*RAW 3/6/06*
John Cena vs Big Show ~ **1/2


*Smackdown 2/27/09*
John Cena vs Big Show ~ ****


*RAW 3/30/09*
John Cena vs Big Show ~ *3/4​

~ Oh hell yeah the Smackdown is just as great as I remember. If only all of their matches were worked that strongly. Especially on PPV. The beauty of that match is that while Show does dominate it, it doesn't even seem like it. It's so damn interesting. Where as that's a problem with some of their other bouts like Judgment Day 2009. That one goes by soooooo slow thanks to the blah workover phase by Show. He's better than that. The Smackdown match proves it. Good lord at the punch that Cena takes to the temple. Loved that match.

~ 2006 RAW bout is pretty solid. One thing I have to note about watching a match from 06 compared to now _(hell even that Smackdown 09 match felt big)_ was how hot those fans were and how big the match felt. It felt like something that you were excited to see. RAW had such energy once upon a time. Match fed off of it. Utilized the factors going into WrestleMania 22 for it. HHH hanging out on the stage causing Cena to look over his shoulder often. Carlito/Masters attempting a run-in on Show with KANE being the roadblock in their way. One AWESOME part of the match was sadly marred by some TNA-esque camera work. Cena suplexed Show off of the top rope but in the middle of it they panned away to see HHH's face. WHY?! Eventually they showed it via replay. It might be minor, but that upset me. Especially when that move was the turning point of the bout. Oh well I guess. Cena hits one of his BEST F-U's on Show to end it. Even Trips had to stop and say holy shit w/a smile on his face because he was so impressed. You can tell it was honestly legit. Solid bout. On the better half of their matches. I'd put it a notch above WrestleMania 20. Which was their last match prior to this one.

~ The RAW 09 match was meh. It was such a weak, watered down version of the Smackdown 09 bout. Watching those back to back and you can see that clearly. I know they got was less time, but it was pretty standard RAW crap main event style. Only part of the match that was noteworthy was Show doing a BASEBALL SLIDE~!


I looked it up today: 13 singles matches with John Cena vs Big Show. Seen them all pardon the very first one back in 2003. That's the one I have no memory on. I need to find it and see how it ranks up compared to the rest.

_Also this_:

*WWE Main Event 10/31/12*

1) Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara vs Alberto Del Rio & Primetime Players ~ **1/4


2) Wade Barrett vs Tyson Kidd ~ *​

~ Not nearly as bad as last weeks, but still pretty lackluster. Short match was fine for what it was. Enjoyed the promo duel with Sheamus vs Barrett. Next week should be a heck of a match. The 6 man was nothing special. If i'm being honest, the only thing I liked about it was Primetime Players. Orton did his same ol stuff. Sin Cara sucks. Not enough Del Rio work. Rey did something...idk I already forgot. See. Forgettable. Like the majority of matches on WWE TV nowadays.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Read through the pages and saw some WCW 1990 tags being mentioned, as well as the Steamboat/Douglas vs Windham/Pillman Starrcade tag. Steamboat/Douglas vs Windham/Pillman was #20 on my top 100 WCW matches ballot, only tags I had above it were:

#5 - Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko, (Clash Of The Champions XVII 11/19/1991)
#8 - Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express w/ Jim Cornette, (Wrestlewar 02/25/1990)
#9 - Southern Boys vs Midnight Express w/ Jim Cornette, (Great American Bash 7/7/90)

Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express w/ Jim Cornette, (Wrestlewar 02/25/1990):



> Pre match promo from JC is terrific, just oozes extreme heel as well as making the match seem that much greater and must see. Maybe its just me but there's something about southern US accents that really adds to a promo for me and makes it seem much better than say a NYC accent etc. Maybe its because I love a lot of southern wrestling and its influence but hearing a guy like Cornette, Funk or Lawler comes off much more dramatic and resembles 'professional' wrestling a lot better to me. JR saying 'I didn't even know he liked girls' about Cornette was just :lmao worthy. Also seeing how well WCW actually PROMOTED this upcoming bout as you know...important and larger than life makes me sad when seeing how WWE promotes tag teams these days.
> 
> Anways this is a legit classic tag team match IMO, so many great moments such as the atomic drop collision between the midnight express, Cornette flapping his racket to revive Eaton after he's possibly KO'd, Cornette cracking Gibson with the racket for that gorgeous nearfall and pulling this awesome shit toothed grin before flipping out when it doesn't get the win. Classic southern tag formula with the R n R Express being too hot to handle in the beginning and I really loved Morton being stuck in the corner only to roll through the legs and tag out immediately demonstrating the Midnight Express just could not catch a break. Great bumping from Eaton & Lane as well as Cornette being a constant thorn on the outside, Lane saying Gibson used a closed fist after he eats a shoulderblock etc. Morton's FIP was amazing with him eating the offence wonderfully and them doing a bunch of great cut off spots, cheating behind the ref's back, drawing Gibson into the ring to bend the rules some more, Cornette getting into it with the ref meaning he misses a Morton sunset flip and the hot tag being built to as the R n R Express's last hope of winning the match given the punshment Morton has taken. Shame Morton appeared to be a little out of position on the finish as Eaton simply dropped Gibson without any sign that Morton was in frame but I'm not about to let that detract from a wonderful match, hell the spot in itself was difficult to execute believably even without a miscommunication in timing. Will add Morton climbing onto Lane during a knucklelock to dive onto Lane was a mind blowing spot that I lost my shit for. Top 10 easily and hell this may be my highest ranked tag match with a definate top 5 shot.


Southern Boys vs Midnight Express w/ Jim Cornette, (Great American Bash 7/7/90):



> "Why don't you sit down and wipe that ugly off your face you stinking pig faced moron" :lmao.
> 
> "Karate's not legal in pro wrestling" :lmao
> 
> ...


Speaking of overlooked tags, Flair/Windham vs Steamboat/Eddie Gilbert from 89 is really overlooked but is absolutely quality:



> Ric Flair & Barry Windham vs Ricky Steamboat & Eddie Gilbert, (1/20/1989)
> 
> Tremendous tag match and a lock for top 30. Loved Windham's 'aww son of a bitch' expression as Steamboat's music played and the whole chaotic nature of the first few minutes with Steamboat destroying both Flair & Windham before even young Gilbert manages to be too much for Flair & Windham served as a great introduction to the match. Refreshing to see the commentators play up the smallest bit of detail such as the heels regularly having to rethink their strategy because the faces are too much of them. Gilbert in peril was pretty great I thought, it lacked some hot tag teases but him reguarly getting in a few punches added to his character and the commentators trying to play up a lesser man being beaten by now really added to the drama and development of Gilbert which added excitement to the match. Loved Steamboat in particular doing a favourite spot of mine in tags where he reaches over the rope and almost collapses into the ring; never tires and always serves as a nice spot to show how hungy Steamboat is. Flair's cocky face after chopping Steamboat like he'd just won the battle only to be chopped 10x harder had me rolling and the hot tag and subsequent Steamboat burst of offence was brilliant in setting up Flair/Steamboat for the belt; really refreshing as well to see Steamboat not even be troubled at all during the exchanges and really put him over as the major threat to Flair and the Horsemen, Gilbert looked great working off of Flair & Windham and the heels had good stooging, bumping and snide tactics. For some reason I really marked for the simple transition where Flair faked leaving the ring only to grab Gilbert's leg and hook him to the mat: just oozed 'World Champion intelligence'.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Got this BORK documentary on the D/L . Should be a good watch.

Although I do think they have missed out on some money by not doing an all new doc.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll go ahead and say it; A well done, thorough BORK documentary now has the potential to be better than Punk's BITW documentary, if the WWE are willing to make some sacrifices. The timeline of his career would be absolutely insane.

His amateur wrestling days - His rise to the top during high school and eventually winning the NCAA Wrestling Championship in 2000, after a heatbreaking second place in 1999. Get Shelton Benjamin to talk about that, as he helped coach Lesnar and was his room mate at University. Maybe get some teachers, then girlfriends, school friends etc. to talk about him.

Obviously then his first run - Still have Shelton, as they teamed up in OVW. Have Heyman and MAYBE Cornette and/or Danny Davis who helped train Lesnar in OVW. Then transition in to being called up to the main roster, have the likes of Rey Mysterio, Big Show, The Rock, John Cena etc. all giving their insight in to Lesnar's first run. Throw Vince in there maybe, hell even Zach Gowen, that would be cool. Then talk a little bit about his stint in NJPW because he couldn't make it in to Professional Football. Bring in JR and then some American footballing names/analysts, and then go in to a bit of detail about the lawsuit between Lesnar and the WWE with the no compete clause.

Then move to MMA. Imagine having someone like Dana White, Frank Mir, Randy Couture or even Joe Rogan talking about Lesnar and his meteoric rise to the top of MMA and draw parallels to his rise in wrestling; Amateur and Professional alike. Then slowly move in to his downfall - His illnesses etc. and the eventual retirement after his loss to Alistair Overeem.

Then bring it back to the WWE and his second run and whatever. Blah blah blah.

On top of this, you could break up these segments of the doc with little tidbits about his growing up on a farm and the subsequent "farm strength" that he has and how that has helped him in his career. His personal life, his fame, his natural athleticism etc. 

With the right speakers and the right matches, a Bork DVD would be epic. That's what im trying to say.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The MMA part of that doc would own. I'd be really interested in hearing stuff from Dana/Mir, especially when he was first coming into the company. And stuff from other big name HW too.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

I got the Brock Lesnar Blu-Ray and I'm disappointed somewhat with the presentation. I thought they were going to take Lesnar's interviews and incorporate them into the old documentary to give it a complete feeling or at least he would give his thoughts on all his matches. Unfortunately, none of that (aside from SummerSlam 2002).

Basically, all you need to know from everything he said is he is a tough guy and he will be WWE (or world) Champion again.

His work is still worth the purchase though since there were only 5 matches on the previous DVD release.



*Some notes*:

The entrances for the Hogan Vs. Lesnar match are still cut!

The Iron Man Match is still in its entirety.

The missing two minutes after the Goldberg Vs. Lesnar match ends are still cut.

- Vic


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> You supremely underrated Punk vs Danielson MITB though. You went my review Cena/HHH WrestleMania 22 on it. (yeah, I gave it a bs rating. I know that now. :hhh)


Nah man, fuck that match! 

I'll give it another watch soon and re-review it, though. Just to see what if I missed anything. But fuck AJ, she ruins everything she's involved in.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

@Segunda Caida: Flair/Windham vs. Steamboat/Gilbert from 89 is definitely quality, no offense to Steamboat and Gilbert however personally Flair and Windham made that match for me I just thought that their heel work in that match was fundamental excellence but during that time you'd come to expect it from those guys lol.
___________________

*WWE presents... nWo: Back in Black 2002 review

Quick Thoughts: In hindsight, this was a disappointing set. It wasn't long and they glossed over a LOT of stuff; they pretty much only covered the first 3-4 months of its formation and skipped straight ahead to their WWE run (strange that they never went with Hall/Nash vs. Rock/Hogan at Backlash). The matches were mostly milestones. Overall, this was a decent set that smelled like "cash in", hopefully their new DVD is better.*

Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. Sting, Lex Luger & Randy Savage (7/7/96)- **1/4
Hogan, Nash, Hall & Sting vs. Flair, Anderson, Luger & Sting (9/15/96)- ***
Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash (12/27/98)- **1/2
The Rock & Steve Austin vs. Hogan, Nash & Hall (3/11/02)- ***


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Brye said:


> This match...so much own.


Just watched it, very fun six man. Crazy to me that the Uso's aren't higher up on the tag team totem pole.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Attitude DVD canceled?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> What I'm asking is, is there anybody besides Flair who is top 10-15 in both in-ring presence AND on the mic. The closest three would HAVE to be Savage, Austin, and Eddie, wouldn't it ? All around I'd DEFINITELY put Savage top 5, one of the best on the mic ever coupled with his unmistakeable consistency and big match performances.


Terry Funk and Jerry Lawler.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My Cena/Punk house show got changed to Punk/Ryback and Cena/Dolph


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched the new NWO doc. Its ok. Only an hour and 3 minutes long though, so while they do touch on most of the things you'd want/expect them to, they really don't go into the detail you'd want them to. Plus some things are of course still missed out (Luger beating Hogan on Nitro for the title and the Horseman feud being the two main ones I can think of). Just a shame they couldn't have Hogan and Bischoff and Hall on it. Footage from the Monday Night Wars and NWO: Back in Black docs are used for them, mostly stuff we've seen, and a couple of bits here and there that was new (aka recorded for those docs but never used). Seeing Russo was certainly something lol. I knew he was in it, but still, Russo on a WWE DVD in 2012. Crazy!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

How's Dolph and Cena's chemistry together? I remember them having a match on Raw awhile back but don't remember the actual match lol. I just remember Punk on commentary and him hitting Cena in the back with a chair at the end of the segment.

Edit - here it is






will have to re-watch


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Nah man, fuck that match!
> 
> I'll give it another watch soon and re-review it, though. Just to see what if I missed anything. But fuck AJ, she ruins everything she's involved in.


I actually thought her role as guest ref was the best "guest ref interaction" in a match in a LONG time. Was a plus that she wasn't out there for the entire time too. Maybe that's what did it. LOVE that match.

_@_ _Segunda Caida_ - I have Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas just a notch above Midnight Express vs Rock N' Roll Express WrestleWar '90. Midnight/Southern Boys is #1 in my book though. Wished I owned more of those tags from the early 90's WCW. Lucky WWE put all of those on DVD as it is. Lacking the Dangerous Alliance tag matches = 

_@ __Clique_ - Cena/Dolph's chemistry in that match owned. I'm pretty excited at the prospect of them finally working together on PPV. That match back in 2010 was the sign, to me at least, that Dolph was gonna have a chance to be a main eventer within the company. It took longer than expected following the match. Nonetheless, glad to see I wasn't far off with my thought.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Punk MITB match is good, but not great and certainly nowhere near their absolute classic (and currently joint MOTY for me) OTL match. AJ was great in the match I thought, BUT I thought the whole thing could have been soooooo much better if when she introduced the kendo stick (or chair? I forget) for them to basically fight over, it was the first weapon in the match. Had absolutely no effect for me since they'd already been beating each other up with weapons. Plus I wasn't the biggest fan of them using weapons in the first place. Bryan Vs Punk is one of those matches that I highly doubt would EVER benefit from using weapons. Would be like Flair/Steamboat beating the piss out of each other with kendo sticks. Pointless and shitty and would take away from what they do best together; wrestle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I prefer Money In The Bank. Sweet bloody science the reaction that came over me the first time I watched it. Holy shit I don't remember marking that hard for something in a long, long time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I actually thought her role as guest ref was the best "guest ref interaction" in a match in a LONG time. Was a plus that she wasn't out there for the entire time too. Maybe that's what did it. LOVE that match.


Hated that angle too which might have ruined it for me altogether. It might also be my answer for the question some pages back which was "Has an angle ever ruined a match for you?". I can pretty much confirm this one.

On a different note, I just watched Raw 2005 in Japan (07/02/05) and there was an okay Edge/HHH title match and a nice little submission match between Benoit/Jericho. Those green tights Benoit wears look pretty cool too, although nothing matches the cute red ones from the Royal Rumble 04.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

eh. Didn't bug me. I was getting Punk vs Danielson matches for the WWE Championship. That's all my focus was on.

ooooh. I have to check that match out later. Need to play catch up on some Chikara goodness first.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I preferred Over the Limit, which was probably helped by the fact it got zero build-up.

And one thing I forgot to mention regarding that Japan episode. THE CROWD! They are so different compared to American crowds in Japan. They're deeply concentrating on the action and clap their hands as show of respect whenever something happens. Reminds me of football (soccer for Americans) crowds when a player is replaced by another in the pitch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah crowds in Japan are boss. Especially when the match reaches a fever pitch. Oh my god, such an atmosphere. They're the best. They hang on every big move. Every nearfall. It really does make matches over there feel even bigger.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Royal Rumble '10 came today. Only Rumble I haven't seen from '92 on.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Royal Rumble '10 came today. Only Rumble I haven't seen from '92 on.


Fun PPV. Ezekial Jackson has a career performance, Michelle McCool gets owned for being an awful twat, Undertaker/Mysterio, & EDGE.

oh and be prepared for the worst rebuttal ever by R-Truth. He likes bacon.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Fun PPV. Ezekial Jackson has a career performance, Michelle McCool gets owned for being an awful twat, Undertaker/Mysterio, & EDGE.
> 
> oh and be prepared for the worst rebuttal ever by R-Truth. He likes bacon.


I honestly forget Truth was in WWE before he turned heel. :lmao

The Rumble itself seems fun and I've heard positive things. And Taker/Rey is a match I've never seen that seems really interesting. I remember liking Zeke/Christian from that last ECW show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Mysterio/Taker was a pretty good match. Nice to see them get more than 5 minutes and a PPV match. ***1/2 for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't blame ya. He's still useless, lolz.

Yeah Rumble was plenty of fun. PUNK carried it for a 1/3 of the match. It's one of my personal favorites thanks to him.

Taker vs Mysterio is (Y). Really interesting dynamic. So rare to see them duke it out too. I liked how the PPV had one main event match Heel vs Heel (Sheamus vs Orton) and the other being Face vs Face.

Christian vs Jackson on there is even better than their Extreme Rules match on ECW. Simply put, it's good stuff. Christian really made Jackson look like a credible worker.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Better than the extreme rules? Hell yeah!

And I'm so glad we at least got Taker/Rey. Doesn't seem likely we'll get Rey/Trips. 

I can't imagine Sheamus/Orton being too good from that show. If I recall Orton was transitioning to face and Sheamus really hadn't found himself yet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It is imo. So lets hope you feel the same way now after being pumped. 

Yeah, that's not gonna go down. Especially with Triple H never going to be a working heel again. Only thing we got between them was the 3 vs 2 Handicap match from Saturday Night's Main Event iirc.

It isn't. It's not bad, per say, but it's mostly a match where they wear each other down and it has a bad, abrupt finish. As the year rolled on their matches only got stronger.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> It is imo. So lets hope you feel the same way now after being pumped.
> 
> Yeah, that's not gonna go down. Especially with Triple H never going to be a working heel again. Only thing we got between them was the 3 vs 2 Handicap match from Saturday Night's Main Event iirc.
> 
> It isn't. It's not bad, per say, but it's mostly a match where they wear each other down and it has a bad, abrupt finish. As the year rolled on their matches only got stronger.


Awesome.  God, I loved WWECW, especially in '09/'10. So many good matches coming out of it.

They had some really fun exchanges in the '06 RR as well. That 3v2 match owns, glad it's on the WM 22, along with the rest of that show.

I see, I see. I'll agree to that. I liked the SS match and while the HIAC seemed sort of pointless for their feud, I thought it was good. It REALLY had no reason to be in a cell though, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Me too, man. Me too. I should really stop saying it and just start that WWECW project from 2009-2010. I'll try and look at what I can find via youtube/dailymotion. If not just download all of them via a torrent if I can find them. (if anyone finds those years then let know )

Ah right. They were in the final 3. I haven't watched that match since it aired. I got it here with me atm. I'll watch it one of these days. I recall that PPV sucking tho. SNME bonus on WM 22 dvd owned. I wished they put all as a bonus next to whatever show they aired prior to.

Summerslam was good. Hell in a Cell was GREAT. As was their RAW match on the final raw of 2010. They were put in the Cell only because it was the PPV theme. Same with Orton/Henry which had even LESS meaning to be stuck inside Hell in a Cell. This year they wised up by not shoving Sheamus & Show in one.

_Oh and because I like to post snowflakes_:

Christian vs Ezekial Jackson ~ ***
Mike Mizanin vs MVP ~ **1/4
Sheamus vs Randy Orton ~ **
Mickie James vs Michelle McCool ~ DUD
The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio ~ ***1/4
Royal Rumble ~ ***1/4​
So you know what to expect...haha.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've been looking for a torrent to no avail. I requested it in media once but no one had it. 

The PPV as a whole isn't great but I really enjoyed the Rumble match itself. Rey puts on one heck of a performance. And agreed with you there.

Agreed. That's why I really hate the HIAC PPV concept, same with TLC. The matches that have no business being in that gimmick always get it. Although I love the idea of Mark Henry in a HIAC in a heated feud. I vaguely recall that Sheamus/Orton match but I'll have to give it a watch. I miss the Sheamus of the Summer of '11. He OWNED for those couple months in the Orton/Christian feud.

And thanks for the ratings.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

then I guess whatever I find on youtube/dailymotion will have to suffice for now. I'll try going in order as best I can. They should have the noteworthy matches. I hope. If they don't have the Boogeyman matches, well, I think I can cope.

I think the PPV has a taint for me since I was so close to having Orton win the Rumble only for Rey to win. I was crushed. Then 20 minutes later Cena won the WWE Championship and I felt better. Oh and Gregory Helms won the cruiserweight championship too. Then Undertaker came out and blew up the ring. Wait, I think I love this PPV now :mark:

I'm much more content with TLC than I am Hell in a Cell. I think TLC has worked out for the years that it's been around. Not much build needed for gimmicks like Tables & Chairs. Take a feud and up them with those. Works for me. Ladders and TLC have been given fair matches too: 

_TLC_ - DX vs JeriShow, Edge vs Kane vs Mysterio vs Del Rio, & Punk vs Miz vs Del Rio
_Ladder_ - Christian vs Shelton, Dolph vs Swagger vs Kofi, Sheamus vs Morrison, & HHH/Nash.

Ok, HHH/Nash was a bad choice. lmao. But, Hell in a Cell is meh. The first year all 3 did honestly make sense. Taker was pissed at the screwjob so he wanted Punk in the match that is associated with him. Cena vs Orton was in that fever pitch so it got put in there. DX vs Legacy was the feud ender. So they all clicked. 2010 it really should have only been Undertaker vs Kane, but the irony was Sheamus vs Orton blew it away and then some. 2011 didn't need either to be HIAC matches and this year I guess worked because it added to the "drama" that Punk would lose to the undefeated Ryback with nowhere to run.

It holds up. I dig it. Well, I've been a big Sheamus fan since day one (which means FCW stuff, haha) so I've been happy with the majority of his WWE run. I marked when he turned face in 2011 though. Liked seeing how easily the fans gravitated towards him. He already got pops even as a heel. Seemed to come naturally with the transition.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> then I guess whatever I find on youtube/dailymotion will have to suffice for now. I'll try going in order as best I can. They should have the noteworthy matches. I hope. If they don't have the Boogeyman matches, well, I think I can cope.
> 
> I think the PPV has a taint for me since I was so close to having Orton win the Rumble only for Rey to win. I was crushed. Then 20 minutes later Cena won the WWE Championship and I felt better. Oh and Gregory Helms won the cruiserweight championship too. Then Undertaker came out and blew up the ring. Wait, I think I love this PPV now :mark:
> 
> ...


Start with this match.  I loved the fifteen minutes of fame gimmick and this match kinda owned.






:lmao I was disappointed too when Orton lost, he was my favorite wrestler at the time. Didn't like how the Rumble was mid show either, but it made sense considering the ending.

That's true, TLC has had some good stuff, I'd just like them to have the freedom to choose whenever they want to do one, rather than wait. Morrison/Sheamus OWNS. But I agree and enjoy all of those TLC/ladder matches to at least some degree other than Trips/Nash haha. I'll agree HIAC started off with the right intention. Still mark for Cody/Ted main eventing a PPV and actually looking pretty dominant. Isn't as good as the Breaking Point match, which I love, but I liked it. But god, Taker/Kane was a huge letdown. And then '11 just didn't make any sense. The only reason that 3 way was in a cell was for the Miz/Truth ending. And this year...meh. Haha.

I remember being absolutely shocked when Sheamus just jumped right onto Raw and won the title. So out of nowhere. But it ended up being pretty good. I haven't liked him too much this year as a character but his ring work has been pretty good. I've never seen his FCW stuff but I've read he had matches against Gabriel so I should check it out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

OMG I got to watch that right NOW. Best matches of Shannon Moore's WWE career were the tags w/Yang vs Morrison & Miz.

I know right? They shoved it in the middle of the show only so Undertaker could return and destroy the ring. Hilarious. I knew there had to be a reason why Angle/Henry main event over both Rumble & Cena/Edge.

I fully understand that. Hell in a Cell only happened at WrestleMania this year because it was Taker vs HHH. It won't happen any other time of the year unless at the namesake PPV. TLC has a bit more freedom. Tables matches happen sporadically it seems. Ladders usually occur at Extreme Rules. But, that event has the TLC matches themselves lockdown.

See, it was AWESOME that Legacy got to main event the event, but that match simply left a sour taste in my mouth. Maybe I have to rewatch it to really see if it still does, but I wasn't happy. Breaking Point is a different story. Oh that one was fun. And Legacy won. Triple H got ko'ed by an ICE CHEST & Kevin Steen was seen in the crowd while they were brawling. Superb!

lol @ Undertaker vs Kane. Perhaps the second most meaningful HIAC via storyline and it ended up being SO weak. Hated that WWF 1995 type finish too. wtf?

I won a bet thanks to Sheamus winning. I said he'll beat Cena clean, which he did, and I got 2 Monday Night Nitro's from 1999 & 5 WCW Saturday Night's from 1995. I MARKED. But, yeah, I guess it was a longshot and he got it done. I was so happy though. Solely because I couldn't believe Sheamus did get the Championship. His character this year has worked for me. Simply a face who'll get serious when he needs to be. I know this place sure turned on him. Meh. I'm still a fan. His White Noise to Big Show on RAW made my brain explode. SHEAMUS. FCW stuff is fun much like other things from the rest of the promotion. I'm sure you'll get a kick out it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> OMG I got to watch that right NOW. Best matches of Shannon Moore's WWE career were the tags w/Yang vs Morrison & Miz.
> 
> I know right? They shoved it in the middle of the show only so Undertaker could return and destroy the ring. Hilarious. I knew there had to be a reason why Angle/Henry main event over both Rumble & Cena/Edge.
> 
> ...


Completely agreed. Makes me miss the CW division in '06 with Helms, Crazy, Kash, Psichosis, Yang, London, Kendrick, etc. So many fun matches and Helms really owned that year. Miz and Morrison really grew on me in '07/'08 with stuff like that. Just really entertaining matches with what they were given, regardless.

I loved the divide/conquer strategy used by Legacy during that whole feud. I guess it made some sense for Trips and HBK to overcome it in the end but I would've marked like a little girl if Legacy won the HIAC. And I still don't understand how they screwed up Taker/Kane HIAC. So much significance behind all of that and they even brought back Bearer and then THAT happened. That fucking ending. :lmao

That's awesome. :lmao I probably would've taken that bet in Cena's favor. Something that shocking is pretty beneficial though. I see where you're coming from with Sheamus. I wish his feud with Henry got more of a payoff as I really liked the Summerslam match. I can still really enjoy Sheamus' matches, but his feuds have turned me off since the Sheamus/Bryan one. I just couldn't get into Del Rio/Sheamus one bit, even when they tried to intensify it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's too bad Helms didn't get his match at WrestleMania via breaking his nose on a tour. Damn the possibility of owning it up there was high. Morrison & Miz won over so many people during their run together. Became a random duo that meshed so well with each other. I miss Morrison. Guess he lost his spark though.

I went in expecting a full scare war inside the Cell. Like Breaking Point, but confined. It was the complete opposite of what, I guess, I wanted and ended up disliking it. I'll borrow it from my brother the next time I see him and I'll give that match and show the proper review needed. Plus I loved Morrison/Dolph & Jerishow vs Batista/Mysterio so seeing those again is gonna rule. Enough said on Undertaker vs Kane. I mean, what happens in that match that's significant? lolz.

Best bet result I ever got. Hands down. I'm sure the majority were in favor of Cena in that match. I probably was crazy for picking Sheamus/Cena losing clean being the result. He did it though. It worked out in the end. I'm glad that he's one of the guys who works the hardest matches now. When he first debuted all he was doing were squash matches till about Feburary. Pardon his PPV matches. Yeah the program vs Sheamus fizzled out quick since they had Henry go into winning the World Championship vs Orton. They pretty much used that to just get Sheamus to face. Oh I don't blame you. I didn't care for the Sheamus vs Del Rio program either. Only seen one of their PPV matches, MITB. I liked it. Couldn't care less about the program however. How many times did Del Rio have to job to him? Seemed very pointless. His program vs Show restored my faith in things though. I was digging it. After what I've heard on it, the match apparently owned too. Good to know something I cared about was worth it this time around. (Y)


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

To expand on what KoK said earlier:

Most Overrated, underrated, and favorite (not GOAT) match of all time?

Overrated: Mankind/Taker HIAC, pretty easy to pick here
Underrated: To be honest, I have no idea. There's not one match that I can think of that doesn't get it's credit here.
Favorite match of all time: HHH vs Bulldog with Rock as the special ref :lmao. Or Angle/Michaels WM21


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The BORK doc was fairly disappointing. Its kinda kayfabe and it basically just goes through Brocks rise through the WWE but there isn't any real insight shown and the stars they got for the dvd were really lackluster for a guy as big as brock. I mean Helms and a few refs/agents ? meh. HEYMAN once again looks like one of the smartest people in the business , that along with a decent match listing saved this doc. Wouldn't really recommend and its definately bottom half of the WWE docs.

Really agree with Flux Capacitor about how a new Bork doc mixing his MMA/WWE would have been a great story . And hopefully we get it in 2/3 years if Brock stays around. 

:brock


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Is there any reason why the Lesnar DVD has the same cover and name as the one from 2003? Is it just a re-release?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah it basically is with some extra matches and some clips from the interview he did for that ER hype video.

WHATS RUNNING DOWN HIS LEG


PISS


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

:lmao that promo was great

Won't waste my time with that doc with all of these bad reviews. Anyone else here watch the nWo doc? I forgot who reviewed it here, but they said it was only 1 hour and 4 minutes and that's pretty shitty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ether said:


> To expand on what KoK said earlier:
> 
> Most Overrated, underrated, and favorite (not GOAT) match of all time?
> 
> ...


unk2

c'mon man.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm making my way through the Lesnar Blu Ray, currently at the Lesnar/Goldberg Wrestlemania XX "_classic_" :lmao
Its a shame his first run with the WWE ended on such a flat, sour note because the doc and matches so far have reminded me just how much of a legit freak of nature he really is. If he'd stuck around I reckon people would be calling him one of the GOATs by now.

The little snippets from Brock between matches are bloody AWFUL. He shouldn't be allowed to speak, he's repeating himself and stuttering and just can't string a coherent sentence together. 

Saw a discussion about total packages. For me, the total package is someone who has the looks, the in-ring ability, the promo ability:

Ric Flair
Randy Savage
Steve Austin
The Rock


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hell No/Rhodes Scholars got added to my house show. Looking forward to seeing Sandow in action and the YES/NO atmosphere Bryan brings with him. Should be fun lol.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^ Be as loud as you can. I can't wait to see D Bryan on RAW on Monday. I reckon the crowd will be super hot for him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Smackdown in Japan too (10/02/2005). An excellent main event between Kurt Angle and Rey Mysterio. Those of you who are fans of their one-on-one matches, give this one a watch if you haven't already. Very good back and forth action and it's not like the average Angle match where he goes for the Ankle Lock and Angle Slam every other minute.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9jzsp_sd-10-02-05-kurt-angle-vs-rey-myste_sport


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Lets be honest here, Kerwin white was the breakout star of 2005.

What a performer.

Remember, "If it's not white, it's not right !!"


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> unk2
> 
> c'mon man.


Angle/HBK **** 3/4 

On second thought, Taker/HBK WM25 is definitely my favorite match ever. ***** imo


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Royal Rumble '10

Zeke/Christian - ***1/2
MVP/Miz - **3/4
Sheamus/Orton - **3/4
Mysterio/Taker - ***1/2
Rumble - ***1/2

Everything was just really enjoyable. Whole show kept my attention and I loved the Rumble. The HBK stuff really carried the end and Punk OWNED in the beginning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ether said:


> Angle/HBK **** 3/4
> 
> On second thought, Taker/HBK WM25 is definitely my favorite match ever. ***** imo


Angle/Michaels is meh. I often consider it the most overrated match by WWE fans.

See, Brye, you ended up enjoying that show more than myself, haha.

I kind of thought I didn't give enough credit to Christian/Jackson. I know I dig it regardless of whatever snowflakes I put beside it.

best part of the Rumble was when Punk owned poor Zack Ryder in 10 seconds. "You...you have potent...*smashes mic over head*" :lmao


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Angle/Michaels is so frigging overrated.

I'm looking for some great tag team wrestling, anyone got has any recommendations?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Anything from WCW in the early 90's.

ok, maybe not ANYTHING, but there is a good portion. Look for Midnight Express, Rock N'Roll Express, Hollywood Blonds, Dangerous Alliance vs Sting/Rhodes/Steamboat variations, Wargames matches, etc. You'll know who's capable of pumping out the great stuff.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Watch this






That often used phrase "smash mouth wrestling" is what Steiners vs. MVC personifies.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Way Out 2005:*

Hardcore Holly/Charlie Haas vs René Duprée/Kenzo Suzuki (pre-show) - *1/4
- Yawn, just a generic tag match to warm up the crowd for the rest of the night.

Basham Brothers vs Eddie Guerrero/Rey Mysterio - ***
- Mostly a standard tag match but Eddie and Rey do their very best to make it as entertaining as possible. A pretty cool finish too which further leads to the awesome Eddie/Rey feud that goes from friendly competition to bitterness.

Heidenreich vs Booker T - *1/2
- Just because Undertaker carried Heidenreich into something enjoyable, doesn't mean anyone can. As such, this is a short, filler match that ends in a DQ and has no redeeming qualities. Boring.

Funaki vs Spike Dudley vs Shannon Moore vs Paul London vs Akio vs Chavo Guerrero - ***
- Some nice cruiserweight action involving some pretty good wrestlers. Paul London is definitely the star here even if Chavo steals the victory since he's there from the start to the end.

Undertaker vs Luther Reigns - **
- Why do they keep pairing Undertaker with terrible workers? He's been so badly wasted since the JBL feud. Thank God for the Orton feud because that really made it a much more memorable year for the Deadman. The match itself is pretty boring and the crowd is dead for most of it. A standard Taker victory against jobber quality opponent that has no business wrestling him on PPV.

John Cena vs Kurt Angle - ***1/2
- These guys have shown pretty good chemistry in their past matches. Here they wrestle in Angle's hometown, Pittsburgh, and as such, there's a bit of a mixed crowd and Cena gets his first taste of a non-100% positive reaction since his face turn. Now onto the match, they do some pretty good wrestling and Cena does a good job selling the ankle injury when Angle locks the Ankle Lock in for about a minute. After a ref bump and a confident Angle, Cena quickly gives him an FU and heads towards superstardom as a main eventer. I liked the fact that after the Eddie Guerrero backstage segment, Cena appears a lot more serious and intense in here. He doesn't smile like a goof or suck up to the crowd, he's all business. Also worth noting is the brief "HBK" chants after the minor ref bump as the crowd expected Shawn Michaels to get his revenge after the Royal Rumble. The match is a good one but not better than their No Mercy 03 one.

JBL vs Big Show (Barbed Wire Steel Cage) - ***1/2
- A rare stipulation for the main event here and I like it. The match itself is pretty good with JBL having pretty much all odds stacked against him truly with no way out. I like the way they sell how brutal the stipulation is and Big Show does a great job as the giant favorite to win. The chokeslam through the ring was a massive spot and the ending is one of the most creative I've seen. A very enjoyable match that doesn't last that long for a main event. Having seen all the lead-up episodes, I can now understand Batista's appearance in the end better. Very good build-up towards WM21, I must say.

*Overall:* *** out of ***** (A very decent PPV. There's some truly bad stuff but the majority of the card ranges from average to very good. Not much to say otherwise and I also liked that little room for Batista they had. Luxury to just relax on the couch all alone in that backstage room with food and drinks watching the show. I guess that's why I need a DVD collection in the future! Now the Road to Wrestlemania 21 is on!)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Your review compared to mine made that PPV look loads better, haha. I crapped all over it.

Undertaker having to work with "I'll only throw punches" Luther Reigns = kill me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Your review compared to mine made that PPV look loads better, haha. I crapped all over it.
> 
> Undertaker having to work with "I'll only throw punches" Luther Reigns = kill me.


Ha, I actually expected only the two main event matches to deliver but the cruiserweight and tag title matches were not bad either. And I love the main event due to its uniqueness. At last a Smackdown PPV that managed to deliver!

But yeah, Taker/Reigns was a complete waste and terrible.

EDIT: Just read what you wrote about it. C'mon, you give the main event far too little credit!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh. I didn't mind it. Also didn't think it was anything special of the sort. I probably could have went ** on it since I gave Taker/JBL Last Ride that same rating. Both matches are pretty identical. Nothing noteworthy and all you remember are the spots at the end.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Got the sudden urge to watch Bryan vs. Sheamus 2/3 falls from Extreme Rules again.

I liked it a lot more this time. I thought it was great then but that day it was on I was thinking a lot more about what would happen in the Cena/Lesnar match and wasn't totally into it. Watching it on it's own now has allowed me to enjoy it fully.

Such a fantastic match. I'd probably give it 4 and 1/2 stars. The intensity is there throughout the entire match and each fall is great. Excellent performance by both guys.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Angle/Michaels is meh. I often consider it the most overrated match by WWE fans.
> 
> See, Brye, you ended up enjoying that show more than myself, haha.
> 
> ...


Christian takes a couple nasty clothesline in that match too. Made Zeke look awesome.

:lmao:lmao:lmao That caught me so off guard. Kool Aid Man Henry owned in his part too. I couldn't believe Truth eliminated him and Show though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it's a PHENOMENAL match, imo. Psychology. Sheamus and Danielson have such good chemistry together. It's why them getting shafted, TWICE, at WrestleMania pissed me off. Knew they would be capable of something really, really special.

The duck then get clobbered clothesline spot owned. They do that same spot in the epic Christian/Swagger 2/24/09 match. 

KOOL AID MARK HENRY. lmao, I know right? R-Truth. Give me a break.

Finally got this running. I'm so happy:

*ECW 1/6/09*

1) Dave Finlay vs Jack Swagger ~ ***1/2


2) Katie Lea Burchill vs Alicia Fox ~ DUD


3) The Boogeyman vs Brett Barnes ~ DUD


4) Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry ~ **3/4​

Oh how I miss these days. The DUD's were meaningless. 2 minute diva match & 2 minute squash. They did what they did. Matches that mattered is where it was at.

~ Finlay vs Swagger was sooo good. Finlay embarrasses most workers that he can be in his 50's and still pump out matches better than some could their entire careers. Swagger was on point at this time too. No doubt. They meshed so well in this one. Finlay coming at Jack with his rugged, hard-noised style. He'll beat ya up. Meanwhile, Swagger was obviously coming after Finlay with all of his amature background. Trying to mount him from square one, control the pacing, etc. One thing I have to note about the match, and ECW as a whole at the time, was that Striker & Grisham actually were GREAT when incorporating the right quips, notes, and details into a match. Now I can see why I once used to like Matt Striker & how they won best commentary team during 2008. Really blended into the match perfectly. The elaborated on the psychology so well that a wrestling fan who wouldn't have picked up on it, would have in an instant. Bravo. 

~ Hardy/Henry fits the catalogue of their previous bouts. It isn't on par with the 8/19/08 or No Mercy matches, but a close third. Best part of the match was the callback to the finish of the bout at No Mercy. Hardy was set for the WSS, began to punch at the worked over knee causing himself to land into a position for the Twist of Fate. Only Henry showed his brains and powered out of the frontface lock immediately to avoid the move. Great touch. MARK HENRY SWAG.

The early parts of the year were dominated by Finlay & Henry awesomeness. Swagger delivered and not too long Christian did later. Only Christian would own the rest of the year as he stayed while the others left. Christian's 2009 is unreal from memory. I can't wait to relive all of his bouts as I go further into this. :mark:


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Oh my god when did this thread start not-sucking again?

I'm a big, big fan of the JBL/Show Barbed Wire Cage match but I'm also rather mentally unstable when it comes to my opinions on wrestling (The fact I have to mention that shows long its been since I posted in here), I really need to rewatch it, from what I remember they handled the gimmick as well as those two could (I wasn't expecting some Megumi Kudo Vs Combat Toyoda greatest of all time barbed wire match out there) and the finish was pretty much perfect for JBL at the time.

Matches like that make me annoyed that I didn't watch wrestling from like December 01 to July 05, like really annoys me... But then I watch HHH/Steiner and I'm suddenly happy I missed shit.



sharkboy22 said:


> Angle/Michaels is so frigging overrated.
> 
> I'm looking for some great tag team wrestling, anyone got has any recommendations?


I'm agreeing with the early 90s WCW stuff, even fucking BUFF BAGWELL came out of those matches looking good (Bagwell & Scorpio Vs The Hollywood Blondes if fucking OUTSTANDING by the way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd imagine with you being the Foley fan that you are, that you at least saw Mick's stuff from 2004 vs Randy Orton?

Buff's days as MARCUS meant he still put effort into his bouts. Or about as much as he had. It was downhill from there. First Blood DNA match being the nail in the coffin. :|


Another one!~

*ECW 1/13/09*

1) DJ Gabriel & Alicia Fox vs Paul Burchill & Katie Lea Burchill ~ DUD


2) The Boogeyman vs Sammy Savard ~ DUD


3) *ECW Championship*:
Matt Hardy(c) vs Jack Swagger ~ **1/2​

Nothing much to speak about on this edition. We got no Finlay or Henry match, but we got a lame short mixed tag & another Boogeyman squash. Oh boy. Reason being is because the main event sucked up all the time...with commercials. The match only went 10:14. With commercials it was nearly 20 minutes. Awful. We were jipped a second good match for no reason. Boo. I digress. Oh and time was also absorbed to set up the Tommy Dreamer retirement arc for the next 6 months. So, I'll give them credit there. That deserved to take up some time since it would be a central focus in the year.

~ Hardy vs Swagger didn't hold up in terms of it being as good as I recall. I mean it's not bad, but simply nothing awe inspiring. You know, an above average affair. Their chemistry would click much more the second time around at Royal Rumble. About time a PPV match blows away one on TV. Far too often it seems to be the other way around. So yeah, not bad main event and a new champion emerges. A memorable show simply for that fact alone.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Awesome to see you go through the 2009 ECWs. I remember a Swagger/Dreamer hardcore match early in the year that people were calling the best Dreamer match ever at the time. I so wish I was actually watching ECW weekly back then. I'm going to try to find all of the 2008 shows. Too much Henry, Hardy and Finlay for me not to.

Marcus Bagwell was a pretty solid face in peril from 93 until he joined the nWo. And I can't fucking stand him.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

God I forgot Boogey was around that long, I mean I know the guy was semi-popular but he wore out his welcome more quickly than that fat oiled up guy who appeared like every two months.

I've saw most of the good stuff that I missed Sabin, watch way, way too much wrestling nowadays, the actual Foley/Orton storyline is brilliant, the match annoys the hell out of me though like, it's good, maybe ***1/2 good but I'd much rather have Edge/Foley over it and the whole bait and switch with the flaming 2x4 is fucking horrific.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Awesome to see you go through the 2009 ECWs. I remember a Swagger/Dreamer hardcore match early in the year that people were calling the best Dreamer match ever at the time. I so wish I was actually watching ECW weekly back then. I'm going to try to find all of the 2008 shows. Too much Henry, Hardy and Finlay for me not to.
> 
> Marcus Bagwell was a pretty solid face in peril from 93 until he joined the nWo. And I can't fucking stand him.


The year is just as much fun as I remembered. So glad it's holding up. Swagger/Dreamer extreme rules was a late 2008 match. It did own based on my memory. It was the match that made me care for Jack Swagger. I might have to take the time to watch it again. Got to the first Christian/Dreamer ECW Championship match on 4/28 and I have to say it's pretty good. Dreamer managed to pull another one out of his hat there. Idk about quality since I didn't check, but Dailymotion has some 2008 ECW's on there. You could test the waters and see what works.



Craig said:


> God I forgot Boogey was around that long, I mean I know the guy was semi-popular but he wore out his welcome more quickly than that fat oiled up guy who appeared like every two months.
> 
> I've saw most of the good stuff that I missed Sabin, watch way, way too much wrestling nowadays, the actual Foley/Orton storyline is brilliant, the match annoys the hell out of me though like, it's good, maybe ***1/2 good but I'd much rather have Edge/Foley over it and the whole bait and switch with the flaming 2x4 is fucking horrific.


Randomly came back for a spell. The KANE killed him in 2 minutes and poof. Gone. Wonder who wised up and made that decision.

Alright cool, cool. Wasn't sure if you got around to playing catch up with the quality stuff missed from that timeframe. Ah yes, they did jip us with the fire in that one. Personally I felt they made up for it. Orton proved he's worthy by taking nearly all the sick bumps he could. (not quite _all_ since he didn't do the barbed wire boards) It's in my personal favorites dossier. Seen it, damn, well over 50 times by now. Strictly guessing there, but it's a LOT. Comparing to Foley/Edge is hard. I thought both matches accomplished exactly what they needed to and gave us two compelling, awesome Hardcore bouts. Foley/Edge did have FIRE though. That seems to nudge it in first for some people, haha. The constant is Mick at the end of the day. The man is the best. He rocks my socks. Or sweatsocks, given whom I am referring to.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Swagger/Dreamer match is definitely the best Dreamer match I've ever seen not including the ONS 06 tag match (which wasn't exactly great because of Dreamer lol).

I might watch Christian/Swagger again later just for the hell of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Slammed through Christian/Swagger yesterday. HOLY SHIT level great.

Starting 5/12 atm. Henry vs Dreamer. Lets see Henry make this work again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did Swagger/Christian only have 4 singles matches together in 09 btw? 2 on ECW, then 2 on PPV. Was that it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. 2/10, 2/24, Backlash, & Judgment Day.

Judgment Day being the weakest, imo.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There's a really great Dreamer/Regal match from ECW in late 09. Dreamer took a stiff cane shot the week before and has his shoulder taped up and Regal's just a disgusting fuck towards the injury and puts in arguably one of his most vicious performances. Dreamer is also fucking great selling the injury at every opportunity and making you believe every punch and bit of offence he's able to muster is taking up all his energy..and the finish is suitably great in being clean whilst making Regal look scummy for exploiting an injury.

EDIT: Regal/Dreamer http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa4zod_ecw-william-regal-vs-tommy-dreamer_sport?search_algo=2

Swagger/Christian 2/24 is incredible, probably WWE MOTY imo and definitely better than HBK/Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't put Undertaker/HBK below Swagger/Christian, but dammit there ain't anything else from 09 that goes over the single greatest ECW match ever (including the original ECW. Come at me hardcore fucks).

Posted this elsewhere, figured I'd post it here since when I refer to "WF" I pretty much mean everyone OUTSIDE this thread lol.

Fuck me WWE. How many god damn times do I have to watch Raw or SD and see Wade Barrett Vs Randy Orton or Sheamus? Seriously, every fucking week. I like Sheamus, but Barrett is just so fucking DULL and void of any character or any redeeming characteristics. Then you have Orton who is just as dull too. Urgh. And Barrett's new finisher looks so unbelievably shitty. Argghh. Barrett came back and every week he just randomly seems to be wrestling those 2 big names, for absolutely NO REASON at all, and him winning or losing doesn't seem to mean anything because Sheamus is still feuding with Show and Orton is still feuding with Del Rio. So Barrett is just there in the middle. 

So what does everything think to Show being champion atm? Ok he hasn't done anything yet, but what about just the idea of him being champ? Personally, I'm wondering if he'll finally get a title reign for the first time in his career. Despite beating people like Hogan and Flair (Savage too?) for the title in WCW, he did absolutely fuck all with it every single time he had it. He was just there so they could switch it between the likes of Hogan and Flair without either of them having to job to the other as much it seemed lol. Then he gets the title in 99 in WWF, as a substitute for Austin and with the help of McMahon. HHH and McMahon feud, Rock teams with Mankind, Undertaker and Austin are injured, Kane is busy with X-Pac, so Show feuds with Bossman and Albert and then drops the belt to HHH when he's done with McMahon. Then he gets the title in 02, beats LESNAR of all people for it with the help of Heyman. Then a month later he drops it to Angle and Heyman randomly joins Angle and Show continues to feud with Lesnar and Undertaker while never seeing the title again until last year and he drops it in 45 seconds or whatever lol.

At least he got that ECW title run that was awesome, but yeah, that wasn't exactly a world title despite wrestling Flair, Undertaker and Kane on TV etc. So for me personally I think he does kinda deserve a decent run with a REAL world title. If you go by WF's opinions on the guy, he's hugely underrated as a performer and wrestler and if it keeps someone like Wade "Dull as shit" Barrett away from the title that little bit longer then I say let the big guy run with it for a while. Everyone keeps saying Ziggler needs to cash in now or whatever, but the guy has until JULY to cash in. FUCKING JULY. 8 MONTHS. If they put some sodding effort into him he could be built up huge in that time and make his title win mean something, and actually give him a decent reign too.

So in other words, Sheamus is winning the belt back at SS and Ziggler is cashing in, then losing the belt at TLC.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm digging Show's badass character, The promo he cut after winning the belt was a really strong promo built on seemingly legit emotion whilst still being able to cut a verbally intimidating promo to the rest of the roster. I feel like they're trying to replicate Henry's push from last year, i.e the seemingly unstoppable giant running riot over everyone, and whilst Henry is better than Show there's still great potential in this reign. Show worked his arse off at HIAC in the match and if he wrestles with that sort of motivation rather than going through the motions we should get some really fun David vs Goliath matches depending on how long he remains as champ. Rumoured idea of Ryback pinning him for the belt doesn't irritate me, I'd sooner see Punk be in the WWE Title picture ahead of Ryback and at least this way they have a chance to make Ryback and his first title victory legit and important.

Basically Show isn't better than Henry who I'd rather see work a Monster Champ heel run than anyone else on the roster, but when he's motivated he's a damn good worker and should produce some good matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of Henry, when the FUCK is he coming back? Would love to see another match between the two with Show now being all badass heel too. Keep Henry badass and not some smiling babyface and it could be awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I asked that question last night. Friend of mine told me he's rehabing, getting into shape to make sure his body can sustain another run. It's even been said that he's dropped weight too. A leaner Mark Henry = a meaner Mark Henry. That's something I'm ALLLLLL for.

I'll give that Regal/Dreamer bout a watch when I get to it. Which will probably be tomorrow.Believe that was the #1 contender's match to set up Christian/Regal @ Summerslam aka the start of their program. I need to crash atm. Figures I stop when preparing to watch one of my favorite matches of the year, Finlay vs David Hart Smith. Tomorrow should rule. Finlay vs DH Smith, Christian vs DH Smith, Christian vs Kidd, and start of the New Superstar Inititive ECW. Can't wait.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I tried watching that Dreamer/Regal match, but the quality is dog shit . I need to get me some WWEECW on disc lol.

Regal/Christian in November is :mark: for me. Was there live.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Regal/Christian in November is :mark: for me. Was there live.


I had to re-watch this after you mentioned it.











Christian vs. Regal just felt important as both men made their entrances to the ring. I really enjoyed this long, grueling and physical wrestling match they pieced together. I love watching Regal masterfully use his mat work and submissions on Christian. Both men sold well throughout the entire battle especially Christian's babyface in peril segment. There were loads of counters and near falls in this main event like we see in most big matches in WWE yet this one didn't feel contrived because of the physicality nor a rehash because of the technical style they wrestled.

The counter of the match for me was when Regal went for the Knee Trembler and Christian moved out of the way only for Regal to shift his momentum in the other direction and hit him in the jaw anyway! The forearms, suplexes and stretches were all displayed by Regal who I think is still one of the best in the WWE ring today. Christian had a tough fight on his hands but he came out looking like the determined and strong champion finally knocking his biggest annoyance off his block, literally. One of the best TV matches of 2009. **** 3/4*


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

With only a few weeks left until WWE celebrates the 20th anniversary of Monday Night Raw, I decided to review what I consider to be the Top 10 Raw shows in history. Hope ya’ll enjoy it. So let’s start with:


*#10 - Raw March 2nd 1998 * 

° Show starts with a video package about the Austin/DX/Tyson feud. You gotta love those videos. Get you really hyped for the show. After the intro and pyro, JR welcomes us and we are Live from Cleveland in the sold out Gund Arena. JR says he is joined by Kevin Kelly and Michael Cole in the first hour and that Austin, DX and Tyson will all be in the house tonight. In other words shit is about to go down.

° Right on cue “Are you Ready?” brings out DX. 
•	Shawn is wearing his cowboy hat which he hadn’t since his heel turn
•	Hunter says tonight the Road to Wrestlemania begins
•	Wrestlemania will be “X-Rated” and viewers discretion is advised but will be completely ignored (He almost dropped the F-bomb here directly in the camera but thought better of it. He did it the week before in a taped segment and I guess Vince was not pleased.)
•	Says he will go through Owen like a hot knife through butter
•	Hunter then presents us his weekly dick joke
•	Shawn says he loves that stuff. No comment
•	They will make Tyson an offer that he better not refuses or he will never forget DX
•	Austin should put on dance shoes because he will hear some Sweet Chin Music tonight
•	Glass shatters and Austin comes down to ringside
•	Lights go out and Kanes music hits
•	As the red lights go on, Austin is in the ring and DX has apparently left
•	Bearer and Kane are on the ramp and Bearer says that Kane will send Austin to hell tonight
•	They leave, Austin puts on a headset and says he’s going to mania to take the title, he doesn’t care about Tyson and he’s not afraid of Kane. So Austin vs Kane in the main event?!
•	Very good opening segment

° Backstage Tyson arrives with his “posse” in a huge limo. Shane brings him into the arena.

° The New Age Outlaws make their way to the ring
•	Dogg and Gunn wear neck braces 
•	Dogg still does his shtick but not as enthusiastic, he’s hurt that bad
•	There’s a dumpster at ringside. Only Russo knows why 
•	James says they were injured last week during Foleys and Funks assault
•	They pressed charges even though people might say they don’t have a case; well wrong they are
•	Dogg starts crying; Awesome!
•	They have a wrestlers, no excuse him, a doctors excuse so they can’t wrestle tonight
•	Commissioner Slaughter appears on the tron and orders them to defend the titles, wait but they have a wrestlers, I mean a doctors excuse. Russo what’s going on here?
•	DOA come out on their motorcycles, seems like that’s our match
•	A few minutes in and Foley and Funk jump out of the dumpster, Outlaws escape
•	That was weird at least Dogg was entertaining

° Video package of Sable & Mero vs Luna & Goldust

° Marc Mero and Sable are out 
•	Huge ovation for Sable, so Mero sends her to the back, tons of boos
•	His opponent: Tom Brandy
•	Luna interferes and Mero finishes Brandy with the TKO
•	Luna kisses Mero; da Fuck?
•	Goldust storms out, and attacks Mero along with Luna, that was a set-up
•	Sable makes the save and attacks Luna, huge pop
•	Luna & Goldie leave
•	Crowd chants “Sable” as she shoves down Mero, he gets up and leaves

° Pete Rose will be at Mania

° Sirens signal Owen Hart is next, this theme was great 
•	Unlike the theme of his opponent, Mark Henry
•	Commissioner Chin is out to ban the rest of NOD from ringside
•	Even better than his music, is Owens in-ring work of course. He was the best wrestler to never hold a major world title. Period
•	And even worse than his entrance music is Henrys in-ring work
•	Chyna is out
•	Sign: “Chyna will you marry me?” 
•	Owen applies the Sharpshooter, chyna distracts him
•	She throws Owen right in a bearhug by Henry 
•	As Owen is fading she enters and hits a low-blow on Henry
•	Henry gets the DQ-win
•	Cole wants to know why Chyna did what she did, but I was not able to understand one solitary word she was saying
•	Owen got a decent TV match out of Henry. Finish was a classic Russo swerve. Chyna costs Owen the match but then also attacks Henry to give him the DQ-victory. Now if all she wanted was Owen losing then why interfere in Henrys bearhug?! 

° Okay next, oh no not the Headbangers. They tag with Taka Michinoku
•	Their opponents. The NWA, no not Cube, Dre and Ren (that was stupid) 
•	The three members here are the Rockers, no excuse me they just stole their theme, it’s the Rock’n’Roll express and Barry Windham
•	Although I would have loved to see Cornette jogging to the ring ala Marty and Shawn
•	Taka calls Cornette a Jackass. Seriously that was the highlight of this segment!
•	Taka hits his huge Springboard as Thrasher hits Gibson with Cornettes tennis racket for the win

° Second hour starts, this is the Warzone now and JR and King are our commentators now

° McMahon is in the ring
•	You can barely see him with all the signs in the crowd
•	Very loud boos Vince has legitimate heat on him 
•	Doesn’t get any better when he asks fans to welcome and gets much worse when he then asks for a warm “Cleveland” welcome for the “baddest Man on the planet” “Iron” Mike Tyson
•	Vince wants the fans to show some respect, you know what that means
•	Before Tyson can say anything, DX music hits and they make their way down the aisle
•	About a hundred guys are now in the ring: DX, WWF officials and Tyson with his entourage
•	HBK says he is not Steve Austin, he won’t disrespect Tyson
•	He is calling him out man to man right here right now
•	Tyson says “Lets do it”
•	They get everybody out of the ring until it’s only HBK and Tyson
•	Crowd is eating it up
•	They exchange words, HBK grabs Tyson “WWF attitude” shirt as Tyson dares him to throw a punch
•	HBK then rips Tysons shirt off to reveal a DX shirt 
•	Crowd is stunned, they don’t know whether to boo, cheer or just go apeshit. It’s something inbetween
•	They crotch chop Vince who does not like what he’s seeing
•	Awesome segment, Tyson is my favourite celeb ever in wrestling. He understands his character and knows exactly what and how to do it. He’s a natural sports-entertainer.

° Knowing they could not follow that up, next out is Steve Blackman
•	His opponent Kama brings out the Nation and Chin bans them again
•	This will probably be 99% kicks and more importantly 99% of the crowd won’t care
•	Nation comes out (where are the officials now?) and attack Steve
•	Shamrock is out for the save, handshake between the two faces

° Colonel Robert Parker is in the ring
•	He introduces Double J Jeff Jarrett, that’s J-e-double f j-a-double r-e double t
•	Jarrett is back with his old gimmick with the hat and those flashy clothes
•	As ridiculous as he looked back in 94 with it, it’s even worse in 98, a lot worse
•	He says he left the NWA because only one man was big enough to promote him 
•	And that man was Tennessee Lee, that’s T-e-double n-e-double s-double e l-double e
•	He wrestles Flash Funk tonight, the most underrated performer on the roster
•	Lee interferes and Jarrett wins with the Figure 4
•	Only good thing here was the commentary. Every time JR said Jarretts or Lees name, Lawler would spell the name. By the second time, JR had enough already. Hilarious!

° Jennifer Flowers will be at Mania
•	She did nothing to be ashamed of

° Cole is in the parking lot waiting for DX as they were about to leave. Why Cole knew that, I don’t know. He interviews Tyson who says he will knock Austin out or something like that.

° Video tells us about the history of the LOD and their split, that lasted about 4 weeks

° Main event time
•	Kane comes out first
•	Austin is next, but gets distracted by Hunter on the stage, he turns around to walk right into sweet Chin Music. He did not have his dance shoes on
•	They taunt him
•	Few minutes later Austin gets up and walks backstage obviously looking for DX
•	Kane is still in the ring after a break
•	Bearer tells kane to get the bell
•	As Kane does that, he attacks a “fan”. I hate those staged fan attacks in pro wrestling
•	Kane brings not only the bell but the timekeeper as well
•	Bearer wants him to ring the bell 10 times out of “respect” for the Undertaker
•	Mark Yeaton does exactly that
•	He gets a Chokeslam/Tombstone combo for his trouble
•	Bearer says Kane has one Tombstone left, somebody should step up
•	Lights go out
•	We hear 10 gongs, crowd pops 
•	Takers music hits, crowd pops even louder
•	Suddenly, a lightning bolt strucks a casket standing on the ramp
•	Taker is lying there and sits up, Crowd pops like crazy
•	“Welcome to Hell” Taker says
•	Taker says he will walk straight through the fire of hell to face Kane
•	He literally does that because Kane sets the stage on fire. That looked cool
•	Kane will “rest in peace”, crowd screams along
•	Raw goes off the air
•	Fantastic segment


That was one hell of a show. Some stupid things here and there. But the key segments all delivered big time. More importantly than that, this show did exactly what a weekly wrestling TV show is supposed to do. Make people tune in and buy the next PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

See, now I'm SOOOO tempted to watch that atm. But, I'm gonna wait. Go in order. Anticipate the rivalry more when I get a chance to revisit all of it. Lets see how strong my will power is. I've been tempted to go and watch a Punk vs Henry match from 2010 already. Remain strong, Cody. Remain strong.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Henry from 2010? Oh yeah...



Spoiler: Punk Vs Henry



*CM Punk Vs Mark Henry - ECW 05/01/2010*

Punk is pretty great here. When the match starts, he mocks Henry, then when Henry moves towards him he dives at the ropes so the ref will make Henry move back . Then when he starts kicking Henry, Henry catches his leg and Punk makes his quest to get to the ropes again look like the most important thing EVER.

Henry is just Henry, not great or anything, but when he is in there with the right guy, he CAN be a pretty good brick wall type wrestler. He overpowers Punk, sending him out of the ring, but ends up going into the ring steps to give Punk his control segment.

With Henry down, Punk begins to cut off his air supply with a head scissors, while also elbowing the fuck out of his head. Its the little things like that which make so called "rest holds" so much more than just rest holds.

Henry ends up almost Hulking up, when he stops feeling the effects of Punk's kicks to his chest, and the World's Strongest Man begins his massive comeback. However, in the end its a kick to the head from Gallows followed by a kick to the head from Punk to end the comeback of Henry, and end his attempt to quality for the ECW Homecoming Finale thing.

Good stuff here. Punk kept things awesome with his facial expressions and the way he worked his holds, and Henry did exactly what he needed to do as the bigger man in the match. All came together nicely.

*Rating: **1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I take it your opinion on Henry changed after 2011 :hmm:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My opinion of 2011 Henry changed. I still feel the same way about pre-2011 Henry for the most part.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fair enough. I like MARK. He's had a good run in the company since 2008 - current, imo.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Now this is a weird one but I'm throwing it out there since there was an instance years ago when a poster (I think it was here) claimed Mark Henry was a better worker than Shawn Michaels - What are Mark Henry's best matches?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've liked him during certain periods of time, but he was just never consistent enough for me to really become a fan until his awesome run last year. He has some good shit in 06... but also had some shit in 06. 07 was the year of the Silverback was it not? Urgh. I just remember him bearhugging the life out of me just watching him. 08 in ECW he had some good stuff. Don't really remember most of his 09 or '10, but he was babyface and not doing much anyway right? Saw him against Orton live on Raw in 09. Wasn't very good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watching Shawn Michaels vs Edge street fight from 28/2/2005 Raw. Midway through it and I couldn't help but notice that security guy RUNNING towards the front row sign that said "Fuck the FCC" to take it away.

EDIT:

Final thoughts... a very good back and forth street fight with them using numerous weapons and they also get enough time to make it work. In a regular wrestling match, their chemistry wasn't all that but here they are let loose with weapons and an "all over the place" fight that puts an end to their feud so Edge moves on to the MITB match and HBK starts his Kurt Angle feud. Still, that fan sign took my attention, lol. Then a guy that was sitting there (probably the one with the sign) got ejected a few minutes after.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Henry's Run in 2011-2012 up to his injury was so incredible. Best monster heel run the WWE has had in years. Henry's character work as a dominant heel is brilliant.

Punk vs. Henry the raw after Wrestlemania is a perfect 10 minute match. I literally see nothing wrong with it, from henry's incredible heel character just destroying punk's back and midsection, to punk's selling and incredible babyface performance, to the hottest crowd in recent memory popping for seemingly every move, to a perfect finish making punk and henry look incredible. Easy **** match.

Henry had a fantastic catalogue of matches during his heel run, NOC with orton, Summerslam with Sheamus, Steel Cage with Bryan, etc. Best monster heel title reign in a long time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Now this is a weird one but I'm throwing it out there since there was an instance years ago when a poster (I think it was here) claimed Mark Henry was a better worker than Shawn Michaels - What are Mark Henry's best matches?


I'm a bit too drunk atm so that means I'm too lazy took look in my books for dates, but I know one that I recall being awesome:

JeriShow vs Mark Henry & MVP ~ RAW 9/28/09

> the tag from Breaking Point.

Plus his matches vs Matt Hardy sans Summerslam 2008. Night of Champions 2008 vs Kane & Show was fun because it was like watching a real life version of the game Rampage. vs Finlay in 2008 gave us some nice hard hitting affairs in 2008. Obviously vs Punk 4/2/12 gets listed and vs Danielson in the CAGE is great too. The beauty of Mark imo is that he's such a good monster that even his short squashes are worth a watch. I've really grown to be quite the fan of his.

I know it's a longshot, but maybe even some of his attitude era matches could have some fun qualities to them. I should go back and look. Sexual Chocolate. Oh man.

(I should be able to add a bit more, but those are the ones to fly off the top of my head) 



Choke2Death said:


> Watching Shawn Michaels vs Edge street fight from 28/2/2005 Raw. Midway through it and I couldn't help but notice that security guy RUNNING towards the front row sign that said "Fuck the FCC" to take it away.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Final thoughts... a very good back and forth street fight with them using numerous weapons and they also get enough time to make it work. In a regular wrestling match, their chemistry wasn't all that but here they are let loose with weapons and an "all over the place" fight that puts an end to their feud so Edge moves on to the MITB match and HBK starts his Kurt Angle feud. Still, that fan sign took my attention, lol. Then a guy that was sitting there (probably the one with the sign) got ejected a few minutes after.


Great match. ****.

Never noticed the sign part. Maybe because I own the match via Edge's Decade of Decadence DVD and it may be removed.



DFUSCMAN said:


> Henry's Run in 2011-2012 up to his injury was so incredible. Best monster heel run the WWE has had in years. Henry's character work as a dominant heel is brilliant.
> 
> Punk vs. Henry the raw after Wrestlemania is a perfect 10 minute match. I literally see nothing wrong with it, from henry's incredible heel character just destroying punk's back and midsection, to punk's selling and incredible babyface performance, to the hottest crowd in recent memory popping for seemingly every move, to a perfect finish making punk and henry look incredible. Easy **** match.
> 
> Henry had a fantastic catalogue of matches during his heel run, NOC with orton, Summerslam with Sheamus, Steel Cage with Bryan, etc. Best monster heel title reign in a long time.


(Y)

MARK HENRY SWAG

"If you saw me on the street you would not look at me cross because you know I would break your face" - He's so epic in 2011.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tag Team wrestling motherfuckers..


*Rock 'n' Roll Express & Jim Duggan v Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd, (Mid South 6/8/84)*






To the people who criticise tag team wrestling, shame on you and I hereby recommend you watch this match and kindly swallom humble pie and proceed to worship southern tag formula wrestling. This is a bloody incredible 6 man tag with one of the loudest crowds I can ever recall hearing, with an abundance of wonderful tidbits that you only get in a STF tag. Condrey and Eaton are out of this world spectacular as the Midnight Express, whether they're running the famed comedy spots where Morton proceeds to make both of them his bitch or when they're in control and resorting to every underhanded tactic to bloody and isolate Morton, its just outstanding. Morton and Duggan are both superb here as well as the babyfaces who each receive a beating and both sell their asses off in the process.

Opening is everything you want it to be. Morton playing cat and mouse with Ernie Ladd is excellent, Eaton is the perfect foil for Morton's intelligence and they run one of my favourite spots where Condrey gets dragged into the babyface corner, eats a beating and Eaton sneaks up behind Morton to cheapshot him...only to see Morton turn around and backpeddle like a weazly genius...only to then try and turn around to catch Morton off guard only to be met by a punch from an expectant Morton who knows that cheap trick all too well. Rest of the middle revolves around some really fun Duggan interactions with each of the heels, whereby his immovable frame and dominant power gets worked into some tremendously fun exchanges, particularly the spot where Ladd is unable to launch him into the turnbuckle and eventually fall victim to a double noggin also involving Condrey. Duggan then gets caught by a weapon to the throat and proceeds to eat a brief beating where the Midnight Express constantly pull the ref out of position to allow Ladd to further the assault. Anyone who just remembers Jim Duggan as an outdated catchphrase carring a 2x4 would be well advised to see how fucking well he sells and controls a crowd here, if he wasn't tagging with Ricky fucking Morton he'd have been the best babyface in the match.

However he is tagging with Ricky fucking Morton, so of course when Cornette provides a distraction allowing Morton to be launched over the ropes and onto the concrete, we then get the best part of the match where the Midnight Express run through every heel tactic to isolate and bloody Morton. Morton is hands down the best FIP in history and he's astonishingly terrific bumping all over the place from every punch and strike from the heels and pulling the crowd into everything he does, and the beating he takes is hellacious. Seriously Condrey and Eaton just constantly pull and distract the ref at every opportunity, allowing them and Cornette to double team, choke and assault Morton at every opening and them constantly taunting and provoking Gibson and Duggan into entering the ring and further distracting the ref is just fabulous heel teamwork. The Ladd and Morton exchanges continue to be stellar, with all of Ladd's power offence looking like its crushed poor Morton, and the crowd suitably respond with a mixture of shrieking and silence. Match further breaks down near the end with Morton making a desperation tag only for the Express to once again distract the ref, leading to Duggan and Gibson just fucking off the rules and kicking the crap out of the heels allowing for Morton to pin Eaton after a Cornette screwjob hilariously backfires. Post match beatdown and brawl is just amazingly chaotic, and when you put into context all the fabulous heelwork and baiting by Cornette and the Express, its just a marvellously wonderful angle built on top of an outstanding wrestling match.



*The Midnight Express vs The Fantastics, (NWA 4/26/88)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mrod_the-midnight-express-vs-the-fantast_sport?search_algo=2
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mrqb_the-midnight-express-vs-the-fantast_sport

Oh my fucking god, this might just be the best tag in US wrestling history, its either this or the Final Conflict 83 Steel Cage Match anyway. Good grief everything in this match just clicked on that near perfect level, the timing, the pacing, the way they worked both FIP segments, the way the match effortlessly flowed from the babyface shine period, to the Express taking control and looking a class above to the way Rogers and Fulton started to give the crowd this feeling they weren't going to be beaten and Eaton and Lane gradually growing more and more desperate and insecure with every passing second was just beautiful storytelling.

Opening babyface shine period might honestly be one of the best ever. Not only is it tremendously entertaining and effective in getting the already rabid crowd to fever pitch levels, but it lays out a clear theme and overlapping story which dominates the next portion of the match. The Fantastics are just wonderful with their continual one-uppance in every exchange and the continued story of the Express getting shown up at every opportunity and Cornette freaking out with every time they have to re-group on the floor and plan their next focus of attack was just incredible. Eaton and Lane are tremendous comedy bumpers and really go above and beyond to make every bit of offence and schtick that comes their way just feel so dynamic and crucial that the crowd never fails to lose their shit for everything. Favourite two spots were either Rogers countering a backflip by landing on his feet and just dropkicking the Express repeatedly or the spot where Fulton catches Lane trying to climb over the ropes to enter the ring and deliberately crotching him mid-entry by shifting the ropes from the opposite corner.

Eventual transition spot is effectively timed, with the Fantastics having been given a tremendous opening in which they're proven to have the champs unravelled and scared, but still unable to put them away. Actual spot is excellent in being a cheap double team spot to illegally gain control of the match so as to get extra heat, but also in putting over just how credible and resourceful the Express are in everything they do. Rogers' FIP section is really engaging and Lane and Eaton really start to look the part as the seemingly unbeatable champs, every bit of offence is just delivered with a really sleak precision in execution and you really feel like you're watching the perfect duo sensing an impending victory and finally establishing their class in this contest. They tease and build the hot tag to Fulton as a crucial avenue in turning the tide of the contest immaculately, and the resulting flurry of offence from Fulton ending with him eating a brutal bump throat first into the guardrail was just timed to perfection. Occasionally I'm not a big fan of them teasing the hot tag only to enter into a 2nd FIP section, but here it really worked as a smart swerve with the Express managing to remain one step ahead of the Fantastics at the most crucial stage, as well as setting up for the next developing theme of the match, namely the Express proving unable to put away the Fantastics.

Lane is usually regarded as generally a step or two below Bobby Eaton when it comes to tag team wrestling, but for me he really stole the show in the final portion of the match. Cornette is up to his old tricks and together the Express exploit the ref continually in order to perform a ritual mugging of poor Fulton for what feels like an eternity, but its Lane who really sells this inner vulnerability that has been building inside the Express all match. They got outwrestled for nearly 10 minutes at the start, and now that they're in control and everything is seemingly in their control...the victory just hasn't appeared and with every kickout and act of resilience from Fulton, Lane really gets noticeably pissed and agonisingly frustrated. The moment where he just yanks Fulton by the hair and lifts him 5 feet into the air just typified his anger and vulnerability and the Express then choosing to continually assault Fulton as he's defenceless in the corner and teasing the referee throwing the contest out with every kick and punch Fulton eats to the temple was riveting. Eventually however the Express' inner frustration and anger leads to their downfall with Lane getting into a war with the referee long enough for a pissed Tommy Rogers to hit a dropkick on an unsuspecting Bobby Eaton right into a cover and the 1-2-3. I could see some people wanting Rogers to get the hot tag and then go into the finishing stretch, but for me the way they worked such a convincing false finish with the referee growing concerned with every bump Rogers took, only to have the Fantastics pull a rabbit out of the hat when it seemed the match was lost was just such an awesome come-uppance for the Express as well as a true feelgood victory for the babyfaces. Better than any WWF/E tag by a considerable margin IMO.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Started watching the Best of Raw '09 DVD. The year may have kinda sucked but they put the right stuff on this. Wish they had the HHH home invasion on Orton and that hilarious chase scene but there's some cool stuff. Just watched the first disc and I really enjoyed HBK/Cena and Orton/MVP. Fuck, I miss MVP. The 10 man tag with Steamboat is really fun too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MVP sucks.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Henry was pretty fucking awesome in 2006 until his injury. Good to great matches with Rey, Benoit, Angle, Taker and fun squashes v jobber dudes. In 2004 he had a damn good match with Jericho where he looked like he was feeding Jericho all of his spots. His 2003 stuff with Goldberg and Booker T is really cool as well. Henry can be a divisive wrestler, but for the most part he's really what I want in a monster heel. And 'Monster Heel' might be my favourite role any wrestler could ever play. If he returns as a babyface I will set fire to WWE Headquarters. 

That Fantasics/MX is my pick for best US tag ever behind the Final Conflict. I haven't watched either sine 2009, though. The two MX/Ladd v RNR/Duggan matches are incredible too.

MVP was good until.....IDR when. He had probably one of the worst matches I've ever seen with Husky Harris on NXT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MVP wasn't really good at all during his WWE tenure. Some matches here and there. Only one of the PPV matches vs Benoit was something worth seeing. That being @ WrestleMania. I know he had a lenghty bout with Jeff Hardy on Smackdown following Summerslam in 2008. Have to watch it again to give a full analysis on it, but I recall liking it. I did recall liking a lot of his matches until I re-watched them.

His control phases SUCK. It's what hurt his matches vs Benoit @ Backlash & Matt Hardy @ GAB '07.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember liking all of his TV matches with Matt Hardy. I haven't really re-watched them though, I guess. There's a Finlay/Benoit/MVP from early 07 that I liked a lot and thought MVP wasn't out of place in. I'm getting toward his debut on SD 2006 watching and I'll see what I think. He does have to wrestle Kane, though.........not really looking forward to that. 

I don't want to watch him as a face, though. Now THAT I remember not ever liking at all.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of MVP, wthis is one of the matches I always think back to because it was such a fun TV match. Love the way MVP and Kennedy are stooge heels and just get their asses kicked by the monster babyfaces:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For as much as I love KANE, and I do, I'm not sure how well the Street Fight & Steel Cage matches vs MVP hold up. They're very fuzzy in my mind as it is. Inferno was nothing special. Simply memorable because MVP was set on fire.

That triple threat match is a complete blur to me. Looked and it is on Youtube. Nice. Oh and it's a MITB qualifer match which means Finlay wins it. :mark: Might want to detour ECW for a quick peek. Bookmarked it nonetheless.

Face run blew. He's MVP. He's brash, cocky, and loves to talk about what makes himself on a higher echelon than the fans and other WWE wrestlers. He had no business going face. Then proceeding to discuss his work with charities. Lame.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DVD PICKUPZ This weekend :

CM Punk : Best in the World
Brock Lesnar : Here Comes The Pain (Collectors Edition)
Night of Champions 2012
Superstar Collection : Rey Mysterio
Superstar Collection : Shawn Michaels

Watched the first 2 discs of the Punk DVD so far, great shit. It's crazy to think we get a top 5 match EVER (Wrestlemania XXVI Taker vs HBK) on a lowly budget release, 2012 DVDs FTW! Isn't that the biggest steal price-wise on a WWE DVD ever ? Punk DVD is best DVD of the year by far at this point IMO, but I still have a FUCK-TON to watch.

Henry has ruled over the past few years, no doubt. Dude deserves a 3 disc set complete with a documentary + goodies. Include his ENTIRE 11-12 run please and thank you 

On a side note, anybody here not excited for the Attitude Era DVD ? It's going to suck. I guran-damn-TEE it. Unless it's full of :hhh ....


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Taker vs HBK WM26 isn't a top 5 match ever imo
WM25 however...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn you cleaned up. I still don't have Punk's set. Reason being I hate to buy DVD sets if I own on the matches. Which I do. I'm paying all that money for 3 discs when I only need one. I'll probably download it soon. Or recieve it as a gift. That will work for me.

I bought WrestleMania 26 the moment it came out because I HAD to own it.

Times like this make me happy to know I own every RAW & Smackdown + first 6 months of Superstars from 2011 on DVD. All of that MARK HENRY. The smackdown where he launches the sound guy after he caused him to lose a match = (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Remember that day when I said I'd watch Michaels/Taker WM26 again the next day? Well I DID watch it, and......I don't get it. It's good, but that's about it. Don't see how it comes close to WM25 and I don't think that's a classic either. Hell I'd say Ground Zero blows away WM26. 

I put a ton of 2011 Mark Henry on disc months ago. Only his heel turn. I left off stuff as well, like matches with Morrison and Ryder and Christian which were all good. Henry was so fucking great last year. THAT'S IT. I'm going to start to re-watch it later today.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Remember that day when I said I'd watch Michaels/Taker WM26 again the next day? Well I DID watch it, and......I don't get it. It's good, but that's about it. Don't see how it comes close to WM25 and I don't think that's a classic either. Hell I'd say Ground Zero blows away WM26.


You've probably seen my review for WM26 so you know why I love it. To each his own I guess but these are my Top 2 favorite matches ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ground Zero. That match is good. That's all I'd say on that.

The 2 minute Henry vs Morrison match from a RAW in 2011 was actually awesome for what it was. If only it had about 8-10 minutes in between there it would have been superb. Crowd ate it up regardless in thinking Henry would lose. Starship Pain spot got a good reaction from the fans. Then Henry got PISSED only to crush Morrison right after kicking out of SP.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The GZ 97 match (and the PPV in general for that matter) is one of the most underrated I've seen for sure. Storytelling at it's finest and perhaps the best "set-up" match ever (well, it is ). *Clique* , I wanna see that Wrestlemania XXVI review just to compare, throw it on here RIGHT NOW YOUNG MAN :hhh :hhh :hhh


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

It's not that good like your reviews tbh, just me marking out a bunch:




Spoiler: Streak vs. Career











*STREAK vs. CAREER**
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels*

_* "If I can't beat you, I have no career!" *_

Defiance is what Shawn Michaels has brought to Undertaker to make this rematch happen. Shawn was told “there are plenty of other guys” he could face at WrestleMania XXVI but Shawn responded almost prophetically, “Not for me.” Last year, _Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels_ needed to happen for the fans but this year I believe it needed to happen for Shawn Michaels. 

Everything Shawn has gone through from Ric Flair’s retirement to the injuries and the obsessions have fatefully built to this final larger-than-life encounter. This time Undertaker's phenomenal 17-0 winning Streak is on the line but so is Shawn Michaels' incredible 25 year career.

The conditions here were ideal: Shawn was on a “relentless pursuit for perfection” and the Undertaker is the only one for him to create that ultimate WrestleMania moment. The only way to win this match is by pin-fall or submission because Shawn wants a definitive winner – no excuses or escapes. 

This match has been called “the most anticipated match in WrestleMania history.” Personally, last year was the most anticipated match of all time for me but anytime it’s _The Deadman vs. The Heartbreak Kid_ the excitement is astronomical. This has to be one of the Top 5 biggest WrestleMania matches of all time.

People said they had the greatest WrestleMania match ever at WrestleMania XXV. I made that statement myself. After their classic performance at WrestleMania XXV I couldn’t have asked for more as a wrestling fan. People also said it would be impossible for them to top or even match the year before. Yet, one year later, Shawn and Undertaker are at WrestleMania again giving us more and then some! 

I want to point out something I loved about their entrances this year - they are perfect! Shawn didn't zip line over the crowd or ascend from the heavens this year. No, he came out just as the regular SHAWN MICHAELS which is much more special for a lifelong fan like me. 

Undertaker, however, rose from the depths of Hell dressed like the Grim Reaper of Souls coming to put Shawn’s career to rest. Simple things like that put the match on another level for me before the action even begins. Shawn's throat cut gesture is absolutely the perfect way to start this epic rematch because he's figuratively slapping death right in the face.

Shawn and Undertaker are here to END IT and they have to take the other man out as quickly as possible before any mistakes are made because as we saw last year, Shawn's one mistake cost him the match. Neither man can afford that this time so I appreciate how they both brought the fire out from the opening bell. 

Unfortunately, Undertaker made a HUGE mistake in delivering his Old School which injured his knee in the opening moments of the biggest match of his career. This only puts me on the brink of uncertainty more because it would be a believable story if Shawn beat an injured Undertaker to break the Streak and save his career.










I loved Shawn’s focused attack to Undertaker’s knee. We see brilliant psychology at play from Shawn when he feigned a Sweet Chin Music attempt to expose the severity of Undertaker’s injury. Once Shawn knew Undertaker was hurt it was like blood in the water and he viciously attacked. From the stiff kicks to the knee to Shawn applying the Figure Four leg-lock and Ankle lock, we see that Shawn’s determination but also adaptation he’s learned. Shawn used weapons of past WrestleMania opponents which tell us on a beautiful piece of his storybook career. It’s a case of what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger, but you also can use what almost killed you to damage another.

This isn’t just a match for the ages but it’s a match of their careers. They not only incorporated callback spots from Shawn’s WrestleMania 21 and XXIV matches but I saw things that go back even further in their own rivalry together. Spots such as Undertaker driving Shawn’s back into the steel post with intentions of reinjuring Shawn’s back and also putting the match on an even plain field since his knee is injured in such a high stakes contest. I couldn’t believe Undertaker again would risk crippling himself with the suicide dive but Shawn intervened again by torpedoing his body into The Deadman’s knees. This is an absolutely fine wrestling match. 

There are several spots in this match I love such as Shawn’s kip up straight into the Chokeslam and Undertaker sacrificing his knees to block the diving elbow drop. But one I really marked out for was the play on their WrestleMania XXV finish mixed with a callback from Undertaker’s WrestleMania 8 match with the Tombstone Piledriver on the floor! Now that was sick! It also looked like a move of desperation from Undertaker considering he was almost at a loss of breath after.

That brings me to Undertaker’s selling overall in this match which is nothing short of flawless. Undertaker sold his injury like his leg was hanging to his body by a thread. It may be the best selling I’ve ever seen in a wrestling match. The two Last Ride attempts were awesome. In the first attempt Undertaker’s knees gave out. In the second attempt I thought Undertaker sold his injury exceptional well when he spun around with Shawn in his hands so that his knees could get under him enough to hit the Last Ride with as much force as possible! 

It felt like Undertaker was working with a legit injury the entire match. The pain on his face, the strain in his voice as he yells and the heavy breathing all sold to me that this may be not only one of the most physically enduring matches of his career but the toughest test of his life! But I still can’t get over what may be Undertaker’s best performance selling the knee. I find all of his limping, striking his leg and grabbing the ropes just to stand up to be such an incredible showcase of the man’s greatness.

Shawn was great too. I swear when Shawn has a pained, emotionally frustrated look on his face with his arm stretched forward in the air almost searching for an extra source of strength, it is one of the most powerful things for me in some of his matches. That is one of the reasons why I have always gotten so emotionally wound up in his matches. I am still amazed at Shawn’s showcase of athleticism.










What I call the Moonsault of Death has to be one of the most amazing sights I have ever witnessed live. Shawn landed on Undertaker’s knees and may have snapped them. Much like the suicide dive Undertaker took at WrestleMania XXV, the move may not have hit the way it was intended to hit but the results fit the story of the match. The story naturally came together and they are able to create art from it because of their extraordinary chemistry together. You would think Shawn wanted to obliterate Undertaker’s knees they way he landed on them with so much rage. 

I totally bought into the false finishes too at the end. Shawn gave Undertaker one of the biggest Sweet Chin Musics ever and I swear I had flashbacks to WrestleMania XII at that point only this time I wasn’t cheering for the match to be over. I was in the crowd shouting, “NO! NO! NO! KICK OUT!!!” The guy in front of me turned around with a smile on his face when Taker barely kicked out. Now that I think about it he should have been too busy marking out hard too. I was freaking losing my mind for everything they did and I’m still fascinated with the match and not with how the crowd is reacting. 

When Undertaker caught Shawn for the Chokeslam after another SCM attempt, he looked like he was about to cry as he struggled to go over and hit him with another Tombstone! Every time I get to this point in the match I say to myself this is one of the most beautiful matches I’ve ever seen. I thought the second Tombstone was it too much like last year it took two Tombstones to put Shawn away but it wasn’t. I don’t know if everyone caught it but Undertaker kicking Shawn in the head was so bad ass! This match is the quintessential showdown in the desert between, in my opinion, the two greatest ever!










The closing moments are once again excellent storytelling in a dramatic finish reminiscent of two years ago when Shawn retired Ric Flair. That is where Shawn's road to this point began and now the career of the greatest performer ever ends in the most dramatic way. Within the context of the storyline of the match, it was definitely a case of Michaels earning Undertaker's ultimate respect. The streak is important to Undertaker, but he was just exasperated that Michaels wouldn't stay down and wasn't sure he wanted to end it all. Michaels never wanted Undertaker to go easy on him.

Shawn demanded Undertaker give him everything he had even if it meant Shawn had to signal the finish himself because as Shawn profoundly and prophetically stated if he couldn’t beat Undertaker he doesn’t need to wrestle any more. Hell no to Shawn staying down, Undertaker HAD to be the one to end Shawn Michaels’ career and Shawn made sure the end happened. 

The slap to the face certainly reassured Undertaker to lay the nail in. Shawn was defiant until the end with the cut throat gesture and slap, and Undertaker was defiant in sacrificing his knees and maybe Shawn’s neck in a jumping, SPIKE Tombstone Piledriver from Hell! For the love of God what a masterpiece!










It is inevitable for comparisons to be made between the WrestleMania XXV match and this one so I’ll tell you what I think. WrestleMania XXV had an electric aura to it that made every second essentially EPIC. The crowd was without question better too which made for a better atmosphere. This match isn’t as polished as WMXXV. It’s a little rougher, there’s an extra emphatic statement in every move. Because of the added stipulations and the break-neck pace from the start, there is a sense of urgency here so intense that makes the entire match feel like a 24-minute finishing stretch. 

As for which match is the better of the two? Honestly, I can't give you a definite answer. Both matches completely captured my imagination and indeed represent everything I love about wrestling. WrestleMania XXV is an absolute thrill ride and XXVI is an enduring, emotional story for the ages. I hold both as the two greatest WrestleMania matches ever.









*THE ULTIMATE WRESTLEMANIA MOMENT*

My eyes did tear up when Undertaker opened up for Shawn and the world to see more of his emotions as if we hadn’t seen enough in his enduring performance. I respect and admire these two men more than any other wrestlers and here they created the ultimate WrestleMania moment. 

The story of Shawn Michaels’ career these last couple of years has almost been biblical. Shawn has never hid his faith from us. He devotes his life to submitting himself to a higher cause. This is difficult for any man to accomplish - religious or not – and I believe Shawn wanted that to be showcased the final stretch of his career . His obsession of tarnishing Taker's undefeated WrestleMania streak was Michaels' way of encouraging us to forego our selfish and often materialistic goals in favor of having faith and hope. At least that’s what I want to believe.










Shawn Michaels stripped himself bare of any self-centeredness - from his standard entrance to the ring to a pyro-less walk back up the ramp - all of which allowed every fan to not be distracted from the beautiful performance that he and Undertaker put on. Shawn simply said, "This is all I can offer," and he humbly gave us his best work, and for that wrestling fans will always honor him. The emotion and the beauty of these moments will be preserved in my mind forever. 


 *THANK YOU SHAWN ... GOODBYE * ​





For the hell of it here's WM 25 and WM27 reviews:




Spoiler: GOAT



*The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
WrestleMania XXV
April 5, 2009*

*“Sometimes it is HELL trying to get to HEAVEN”*

One of the biggest crowd reactions live in Reliant Stadium happened when the graphic image of _Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels_ came up on the big screen. This dream match will go down in history as one of the most anticipated matches ever. Fans all over the internet and all over the world demanded to see this match and many times it seemed it would only be a dream. Thank God this match happened.

Taker and especially Shawn went through insurmountable amounts of hell on their road to this moment. Last year, Taker was stripped of the World Title and we all saw maybe a sign to the end of his career when he was banned from the WWE. Shawn went through hell with Chris Jericho and JBL threatening his career and his family both physically and financially. Both legends have suffered and still suffer from nagging career threatening injuries.

Undertaker has never defeated Shawn Michaels in a one on one match. Shawn is 2-0 against Taker, but that doesn't mean Taker hasn’t had "victories" over The Heart Break Kid. It was The Deadman that tossed Shawn over the top rope to win the 2007 Royal Rumble Match after a legendary showdown. It was Taker that caused Shawn’s back injury in their casket match over 10 years ago.

Shawn Michaels is “Mr. WrestleMania.” He says he OWNS WrestleMania and quite frankly he has the resume to back that claim up without question. Undertaker is WrestleMania’s Phenom with 16 wins and zero losses in what everyone knows as THE STREAK.

Shawn says this is a match of lightness versus darkness and through the extraordinary entrances from both legends it feels larger-than-life. 

They masterfully implemented specific elements, or psychology, from their prior encounters into this match, starting with Shawn’s degenerate and defiant attitude towards “the most dangerous entity to ever step foot in a ring.” Shawn’s crotch chop in Taker’s face is like spitting in the face of death. As we know in reality, no matter how much man tries to dodge death in the end he will lose. However, if that man internally believes in his soul that he has ever lasting life through some divine intervention, maybe that is enough for a victory.

The dynamic between Taker and HBK wrestling each other has always been fascinating to me. Taker is much bigger and stronger than Shawn so it makes sense for Taker to dominate a lot in their matches. Shawn will obviously use the hit and run/mind games routine to gain the advantage. HBK does that with his knife edge chops that at first irritate the beast but soon the stinging shots take effect. 

It wouldn’t have been smart if Shawn did not attack Taker's bad knees so when he did I wasn’t surprised. I also thought it was so smart psychologically for HBK to fake a knee injury so he can gain the advantage. Shawn will end The Streak, if he can, at all costs.

Taker and Michaels had me captivated with every move and transition. It was as if they were telling a story for everything they performed. Take for instance the crossface Michaels applied, to some it looked like Shawn accidentally didn’t properly have it on Taker. I saw it differently; Undertaker is well versed in submissions and you can see how he is trying to block and fight out of the move by throwing elbows and trying to roll out of the hold. 

A spot that I jump out of my seat for every time I watch it is the counter sequence midway in the match. Taker catches Shawn flying off the top rope for the Chokeslam but Shawn strikes for Sweet Chin Music, Taker ducks the kick, then Shawn goes for a Figure Four and Taker locks in Hell's Gate! 

The match never really runs at a super fast pace and I think is better for the atmosphere. We get to absorb every second of its greatest. There’s almost an indescribable “epic feel” in the air. The crowd of over 70,000 went absolutely insane for everything presented to us. Every twist and turn got massive reactions. People can say the match outcome was too predictable all they want but the fact of the matter is I haven’t seen so many people on the edge of their seats putting so much passion into a match in a long time. I feel the cameras don't fully capture the actual atmosphere in the stadium.

The crowd was genuinely at a hushed silence in concern for the health of Taker when he almost literally committed a suicide dive. It was a scary watching a near seven foot man torpedo himself head first from God knows how high straight into the floor! Never mind the fact that it is incredible a man his size and age is still so athletically gifted. 

Going back to Shawn’s old antics coming out, this certainly isn’t the first time he’s put a camera man in harm’s way in a match with Taker! I as well as everyone bought the possible count out victory Shawn tried to use to break the streak. He looked so desperate pleading for the ref to count Taker out of the match. It was very intense seeing Taker struggle to make it back into the ring.

The long but breathtaking finishing stretch of counters and near falls from finisher after finisher is some of the most exciting wrestling I’ve ever witnessed. Shawn kicked out of everything Taker gave him including a Chokeslam from Hell, The Last Ride and a Tombstone Piledriver which is unprecedented! 









_Nothing compares to the look on Undertaker’s face after Michaels kicked out of the Tombstone!_

I didn’t have a problem with Shawn willing his body to kick out of Taker’s finishers. He sold everything like near death and never strayed from that. You can see when Shawn did kick out it looked like his body just naturally jumped off the mat. He then looked like an almost lifeless survivor slumped over after being dropped from a flight of stairs. In a match of this magnitude I can accept the extra determination a wrestler may have to keep fighting. I have certainly seen more overdone near falls in a wrestling match but it really does work for this match so well. They used the ‘WWE big match style’ to perfection. It was good on the commentator’s part to say it may have been divine intervention that keeps Shawn in the match.

Another thing I want to touch on is the perfect execution of this match. The DDT counter Shawn delivered half way from the Tombstone position on Taker’s shoulders looked cool. It was a desperate counter and looked as such. Shawn got the immediate advantage and we saw another near fall after Taker kicked out of the Sweet Chin Music for the second time! 

I love the throw down they had with soup bones landing and chops cutting. The big boot Taker used to knock Michaels down is a nice touch looking at the big man showing his dominance over the smaller man.










The finish is excellent with Undertaker catching Michaels from a top rope Moonsault into the Tombstone Piledriver, 17 and 0! What an amazing match! I can truly say this is my favorite match ever and the greatest WrestleMania match of all time. This is the ultimate dream match I NEEDED to see and I am honored to have been in Reliant Stadium to witness it live. 











My two favorite wrestlers Undertaker and Shawn Michaels put it ALL on the line and put so many people on an unbelievable thrill ride for over 30 minutes. This is what wrestling dreams are made of: two of the biggest wrestling legends showcasing an unforgettable all time classic! I could not ask for more as a wrestling fan.​





Spoiler: War Of Wars












*TRIPLE H vs. THE UNDERTAKER*

_We have had some legendary and immortal moments created at WrestleMania. To me, Undertaker vs. Triple H WrestleMania 27 is an immortal moment but it is also poetically a very MORTAL moment for character known as The Undertaker. The match wasn’t just another WrestleMania spectacle, it is a storytelling masterpiece. The way they tied in the story arc of ending defiant legends like at past WrestleManias is remarkable to see unfold. This time HHH is the dominate one and Taker is the one being set up to be put down ala Ric Flair at WM24 and Shawn at WM26. Watching the finale of this match live, my mind and heart was racing because I FELT like this match was going to be the end of The Undertaker.

In this epic, Taker once again (as he did at 25 & 26) proved that when it comes to selling a match's brutality he is one of the best ever. Every year at WrestleMania when he does it people speculate whether he is seriously injured from the first big move. I feel this also further shows what a phenomenal worker he continues to be in spite of age and injuries. Not to mention he continues to bust out the suicide dive! I thought he’d never do that move again after the hip surgery in 2009. I also want to commend HHH for his dangerous bumps to outside of the ring and especially for that backdrop from the announce table to the floor.These men were throwing and taking bombs from the word go! I personally don't think more "in ring action" would have accomplished anything. Frankly, it would've been utterly pointless and taken away from the story of the match. Triple H wanted to end The Streak. He didn't have to prove he was a better wrestler, or work on a body part, or showboat like Shawn did. He already mentioned those were not his intensions in his promo before Mania. Throwing bombs is all he needed to do.

I thought the spots at ringside were perfectly timed from the start of the match because a) it showed how desperate HHH was to just get. it. done. b) Taker took such a huge beating early in the fight that it made the next 25 minutes of the match feel that much more dramatic. Taker had already been through a battle even though they'd only been going at it 5-10 minutes. c0 What does HHH want to mess around in the ring "wrestling" for when he can gore Taker through a glass wall or smash him through a table with a spinebuster? 

Of course this big time showdown had many big spots and the match quality benefitted from it, but at the core they mostly worked off pure storytelling. This included included Undertaker once again with a breath-taking performance selling his pain and Triple H putting The Streak in grave jeopardy. It was a sickening sick to see Taker crumble to the mat after HHH's chair shot to the skull. Taker twitching his fingers after that made the match look more brutal. For those who complain about them selling too much lying on the mat, there is no reason they shouldn't have extensively sold that type of onslaught they had placed on each other.

I liked the Pedigrees being one right after the other too. Watch any other big Mania match when the finishers are executed in swift secession like Triple H did here and with that extra exclamation point as well (spike Pedigree), it makes those false finishes more exciting. They built the ‘sense of finality’ very well I thought. This told a far better story for the direction they were going for than "reversal out of reversal!" and "Trips does something/kick out/Taker does something/kick out" etc. Everything HHH dish out, Undertaker kicked out of. He refused to die and after each Pedigree it just continued to feel one step closer to the end of the Undertaker. If the kick outs had been spaced out over the course of the match I don't think the build to the finish would have had the right effect at all. 

What I also loved was HHH’s character portrayal or journey that links back to the build before the match when Shawn said that HHH differed from him in the sense that “ Hunter could do things to other human beings and not feel the slightest bit of remorse.” However, moments after HHH battered Taker with the steel chair the story took a bit of a turn. When Taker was pulling himself up onto HHH almost in the exact manner that Michaels pulled himself up onto Taker at WM26, HHH looked down on Taker with the same look of confusion, pity and anger that Taker had for Shawn. That Shawn had for Ric. That was such an incredible callback moment. Before the match HHH said he would “die trying to end The Streak” but throughout this match it looked as if he was going to kill Taker in his attempts to “END IT.” 

Then HHH came to a point where he seemingly was taking pity on this MAN. Hunter wanted to end The Streak but The Undertaker just will NOT let it go and "stay down." HHH eventually arrived at the internally frustrating realization that he might have to ANNIHILATE the MAN he respects more than any other. HHH played his role perfectly. This is his best character portrayal ever in my opinion. HHH went from having everything under his control, to being frustrated that Taker wouldn't stay down, to disturbed with himself for what he was doing, to straight up terrified by the amount of damage Taker was able to sustain. The absolute best matches usually involve top-notch storytelling and emotional character involvement, and I think those elements here are off the page. I look at this, the HBK/Taker matches and HBK/Flair as one big story arc. Each match drew off the one before it and developed the themes to perfection.










Then HHH signaled for THE END and hit Undertaker with THE TOMBSTONE!!! I think that's where this match went from great to legendary to me. In that moment I was convinced that things had come full circle and Taker was about to lose The Streak. It is arguably the best kick-out ever, on the same level as Taker/HBK from WM25. They got me to believe HHH would end the streak! If HHH was really going to put Undertaker down, the cut throat gesture and Tombstone would have been one hell of a way to do it. 

Ultimately with Undertaker's determination to live, that sequence was the best way to further solidify The Streak as the most indestructible entity in wrestling and even though Undertaker was physically broken he was NOT DEFEATED.

The finish was just brilliant. Taker going for the last gasp Hell’s Gate shows how much The Streak means to him. Triple H had the sledgehammer prepared to go off on The Deadman’s head so this was Taker's last chance to win and it worked! The Hell’s Gate choke hold was the only way to finish it! I loved how his attempt to apply the hold was a real struggle for him just to get it locked in. It worked better than suddenly catching him in the move perfectly. They've also built up the Hell's Gate as a great finisher which ends a match when nothing else works. Very smart ending. 

Some people (including me) have mentioned how they would have preferred it to end with an unconscious HHH passing out in Hell’s Gate. It certainly would have tied in with the ‘die trying’ line but because the story evolved during the match I don’t think it would have fit here. The whole story of the match was the reverse of HHH dying while trying to end The Streak, it was now the Undertaker dying while trying to keep it. HHH passing out would have taken away the significance Undertaker’s destroyed state at the end which was the main focus. 

The message is that The Undertaker you fight on WrestleMania night isn't the same as the one who might fight at any other show. That is the intangible, mythical, and aura The Streak holds at WrestleMania. The Streak is where the power lies. Undertaker is now just the PHENOMenal mortal that defends it year after year … but for how much longer?

They blew the roof off of the Georgia Dome and produced an all-time classic. I respect The Undertaker more than any superstar/wrestler/performer/whatever McMahon wants to call them now. Year after year, Mark Calaway never ceases to amaze me but I feel the end is near because performances like this where he literally almost kills himself can’t continue. I don’t know what the future of The Streak is but if it ends with THE MAN, The Undertaker, being unable to maintain his death grip on it (thinking about this makes the Hell’s Gate finish more significant) then it would be a dramatic end of an era for The Last Outlaw and a WrestleMania legend.

_​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania 27. Ok now there is seriously a match I don't find the appeal in. Undertaker and Triple H achieved it at WrestleMania 28. 27, idk what it was but it simply felt off and that it tried way, way too hard to be a "classic" match.

I have it up there with Angle/Michaels WM 21 level overrated. But, 21 still gets the number one spot there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Remember that day when I said I'd watch Michaels/Taker WM26 again the next day? Well I DID watch it, and......I don't get it. It's good, but that's about it. Don't see how it comes close to WM25 and I don't think that's a classic either. Hell I'd say Ground Zero blows away WM26.


Different strokes for different folks, but I'm the reverse tbh. For the life of me I'm not sure I'll ever 'get' WM25, watching it live I can easily imagine all the nearfalls and atmosphere being riveting and memorable, and in that regard anyone who was live at the time will almost certainly have my understanding for why they rate it so high. Watching it repeatedly over time afterwards though? It feels like a WWE style version of a Puro/Dream match formula. There's a few sloppy moments (not something I'd critique terribly, but in comparison to WM26 there are far more 'that wasn't pretty' moments) and generally overall I don't find the story delves much further from two iconic legends locking up, aside from the final few minutes where Michaels looks to be the most resilient challenger to the streak yet.

WM26? Well the spot where Taker's leg supposedly buckles and tweaks his knee always comes off as a super smart angle injected into the match and is really timed and executed in the most believeable fashion. The subsequent leg selling by Taker is better than anything I can recall in the 25 match minus the tombstone kickout and immediate Taker facial expression, and the way Michaels fakes out Taker to see if the injury is legitn as a callback spot to the year before where Michaels resorted to mind-game tactics to sneak an advantage really impressed me. Then the callback spots to Taker/Angle NWO 2006 and Michaels/Flair with HBK utilising the hells gate floatover counter and the inverted figure four submission he hadn't used since 2008..everything just advanced and progressed the story and Michaels put in arguably one of his stronger main event performances post comeback, although Taker was the clear better performer in my eyes.

The nearfalls weren't as dramatic early on, since people were conditioned to what it would reasonably take to end the match, but that's a minor quibble and honestly I didn't buy the first couple of finishers in the WM25 match. Aside from it being a staple of the WWE Main Event style, Taker's streak matches had had those big nearfalls since the Batista match at WM23. Even in the finishing stretch of 26 however, you've got Michaels becoming a near equivalent of what Flair had become 2 years prior: an aging wrestler slowly realising the certainty of his defeat but ultimately bowing down to a superior opponent rather than continue to wrestle a hopeless match. Even the closest thing to a botch in the match actually advances the story of Taker's injury, namely the moonsault through the table.

So aye, 25 probably has the better pacing and creates a more unique atmosphere being it was their first match together in 11 years, but in terms of story, selling and building the in ring action around a clear narrative, I find the 26 match to be far deeper and layered. In terms of a pretty woeful comparison, its the Vendetta Danielson/Strong whereas 25 feels like their first encounter (This Means War?).


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

What's the best Cena/Jericho match?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Watching it repeatedly over time afterwards though? It feels like a WWE style version of a Puro/Dream match formula. There's a few sloppy moments (not something I'd critique terribly, but in comparison to WM26 there are far more 'that wasn't pretty' moments) and generally overall *I don't find the story delves much further from two iconic legends locking up*, aside from the final few minutes where Michaels looks to be the most resilient challenger to the streak yet.


The awful DDT reversal is the only thing that strikes me as the only sloppy thing in the match. Other than that it really felt the type of epic that WWE try to force down our throat and normally don't succeed at. I don't know why you'd consider the bold part a knock. Two iconic legends trading nearfalls in a really well done manner sounds pretty great on paper. I haven't watched it probably since 2010, but I sort of remember it being a poor man's Atlantis v Villano III (which is a good thing). WM26 was just a bunch of neat stuff happening and none of it is terribly memorable. I watched it paying close attention less than a week ago and remember almost nothing about it.



Segunda Caida said:


> WM26? Well the spot where Taker's leg supposedly buckles and tweaks his knee always comes off as a super smart angle injected into the match and is really timed and executed in the most believeable fashion. The subsequent leg selling by Taker is better than anything I can recall in the 25 match minus the tombstone kickout and immediate Taker facial expression, and the way Michaels fakes out Taker to see if the injury is legitn as a callback spot to the year before where Michaels resorted to mind-game tactics to sneak an advantage really impressed me. Then the callback spots to Taker/Angle NWO 2006 and Michaels/Flair with HBK utilising the hells gate floatover counter and the inverted figure four submission he hadn't used since 2008..everything just advanced and progressed the story and Michaels put in arguably one of his stronger main event performances post comeback, although Taker was the clear better performer in my eyes.


The call-backs were good stuff, yeah. And that's something and I can remember know that you mentioned it. Didn't really feel great to me, though, as opposed to just "hey this is cool." A call-back is fine, but if I'm finding what they're doing kinda boring then it'll mean almost nothing to me.

I agree Taker was better, and I'd say he was also clearly better at WM25. 



Segunda Caida said:


> The nearfalls weren't as dramatic early on, since people were conditioned to what it would reasonably take to end the match, but that's a minor quibble and honestly I didn't buy the first couple of finishers in the WM25 match. Aside from it being a staple of the WWE Main Event style, Taker's streak matches had had those big nearfalls since the Batista match at WM23. Even in the finishing stretch of 26 however, you've got Michaels becoming a near equivalent of what Flair had become 2 years prior: an aging wrestler slowly realising the certainty of his defeat but ultimately bowing down to a superior opponent rather than continue to wrestle a hopeless match. Even the closest thing to a botch in the match actually advances the story of Taker's injury, namely the moonsault through the table.


I don't think I remember a single nearfall in the match. Michaels grasping onto Taker near the end is the kind of WWE-ish stuff I don't really care about. It's nice, but.....eh. At least Michaels' acting wasn't as hammy as it usually was post-injury.

I'd say Taker 'botching' (in 's b/c I don't think it counts as a botch) the dive to the outside advanced the WM25 way more than the moonsault advance WM26. Suicide dive means you're diving toward (metaphorical) suicide, and the risk doesn't always pay off. Taker landed HARD and was almost counted out. 

Did Michaels follow up with the leg work at all at WM26? IDR. Seems like it was kind of thrown out.


I'm not even sure if WM25 would really hold up, but I can't imagine it not being as good as WM26. Needs a re-watch. OK no bullshit. I will watch *both* matches tomorrow and write long paragraphs about each. Dead serious.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

This fucking match! MVP 's best effort ever in WWE. You gotta watch this, everyone.






***1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> The awful DDT reversal is the only thing that strikes me as the only sloppy thing in the match. Other than that it really felt the type of epic that WWE try to force down our throat and normally don't succeed at. I don't know why you'd consider the bold part a knock. Two iconic legends trading nearfalls in a really well done manner sounds pretty great on paper. I haven't watched it probably since 2010, but I sort of remember it being a poor man's Atlantis v Villano III (which is a good thing). WM26 was just a bunch of neat stuff happening and none of it is terribly memorable. I watched it paying close attention less than a week ago and remember almost nothing about it.


I recall Michaels' 'moonsault' to the floor which sets up the Taker suicide dive looking a little sloppy, to the point where it looked more like an inverted crossbody by the end. Like I mentioned, I'm not one to really get up in arms over the odd mistimed spot, but it was something I figured I'd mention as to why I generally prefer the ringwork here than in the 25 match. 

@ the bold part: poor phrasing on my part. I enjoyed the actual story, I just meant that in comparison to WM 26, I think the 26 match still has that Taker/Michaels atmosphere (albeit not as grand compared to the year before), but the overall story, selling and callback spots add an extra dimension to the story. 25 to me as a match isn't as layered in story and selling, which was more my aim rather than knocking the actual story. 26 just feels like a more developed match on top of the Michaels/Taker dynamic. Like the better Misawa/Kawada matches in the early-mid 90s compared to some of their matches near the end of the decade, if you get what I mean.





Yeah1993 said:


> The call-backs were good stuff, yeah. And that's something and I can remember know that you mentioned it. Didn't really feel great to me, though, as opposed to just "hey this is cool." A call-back is fine, but if I'm finding what they're doing kinda boring then it'll mean almost nothing to me.
> 
> I agree Taker was better, and I'd say he was also clearly better at WM25.


Fair enough, that's perfectly understandable. I guess maybe because I'd come to not expect such layered storytelling and 'smarter' work in the majority of Shawn's post comeback run, that maybe getting this sort of storytelling makes me appreicate it more? I dunno, but it sticks out to me as WWE nailing a better balance between overt storytelling without beating it into the viewer's heads to the point where it becomes a nuisance and detracts from the match: i.e Taker/HHH HIAC with the HHH/HBK monologue and Shawn's dire acting after the SCM-Pedigree kickout.





Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think I remember a single nearfall in the match. Michaels grasping onto Taker near the end is the kind of WWE-ish stuff I don't really care about. It's nice, but.....eh. At least Michaels' acting wasn't as hammy as it usually was post-injury.
> 
> I'd say Taker 'botching' (in 's b/c I don't think it counts as a botch) the dive to the outside advanced the WM25 way more than the moonsault advance WM26. Suicide dive means you're diving toward (metaphorical) suicide, and the risk doesn't always pay off. Taker landed HARD and was almost counted out.
> 
> ...


Again, that's understandable and something I can easily buy as being a little too cute. To me I think the work before as well as Michaels not being as hammy makes it less irritable and melodramatic, though I can appreciate with how WWE and Michaels work these sort of matches, the risk of some hammy convulted ending to the story is always possible. I find the balance in terms of completing the in-ring story without being too over the top is better achieved than what we got at WM 28, but again these sorts of moments and visuals are always going to resonate differently from person to person.

The suicide dive spot really did add an extra dimension to the WM25 match, namely because Taker looked legit fucked on the landing and it wasn't clear how they were going to continue the match with him in a seemingly fragile condition. That being said, I don't think anyone expected Michaels to win at WM25 (not saying he was a favourite at 26 either, but at least the idea of a rematch may have worked a few people into thinking there was a slightly better chance), and without trying to be too harsh I do think that lessens the impact the suicide dive spot has on the match. Like, if you have the same spot at WM26, where people may be conditioned into giving Michaels a slightly better chance..then I think the drama increases a lot. Whereas with WM25 it always comes off as a spot which does admittedly add drama to the match, but the feeling that Michaels was never going to win just sort of handicaps the amount of drama it can evoke. This is probably another scenario of me and you seeing the sequence differently, although off memory once Taker sort of recuperates I don't recall him looking as 'troubled' in the finishing stretch. Admittedly post impact and for a minute or two afterwards there is a real sense of shock that he may be done, but I don't find that carries through to the end of the match (a rewatch might put this better in perspective though).

As for the leg-work, I thought Michaels went as far as he could with it. He exploited it and worked it over and targeted it with his best submission in the hopes of securing the win, but as it became obvious Taker wouldn't submit he resorted to the SCM which had always been his trump card. I felt they made it central to Taker looking vulnerable and giving Michaels the best chance yet to end the streak, but it always felt more like a means to controlling the match rather than how Michaels would ultimately win.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't remember much about Punk/Henry tbh other than Jericho smashing the bottle over Punk's head about 2 ft in front of me. Oh, the joys of watching live in the arena lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Punk/Henry is the TV match of the year for me, with nothing else really jumping out close to its level. One of if not Punk's best performance as a babyface, complimented by Henry being ON and just controlling the match with such ease. A few great teases and subtle build to Punk mounting a comeback, culminating in the kick and Henry's lovely delayed bump. Only downside is the finish but even that is worked and timed as well as they could have in protecting both men with neither able to afford taking the loss, and the setup behind it was really creative and smart and deserves praise compared to some of the lazy countout/DQ endings WWE have thrown our way this year.

Might rewatch that along with Sheamus/Show sometime to see which is better. Show/Sheamus is far more complete as a whole match, but I think I might just prefer the long build to Punk's comeback a little bit more.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Seriously, Henry is one of the most underrated big man workers, ever. His latest heel run was such great work for him. Both in the ring and as a character.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Divas tag match on NXT 2 weeks ago was a lot of fun. I agree with Regal, Alicia Fox legit has one of the best bridges out there. Rollins/Slater was also pretty good and Rollins' new finisher is awesome. Kidd/Cesaro had a really good match as well. Oh, and Justin Gabriel is actually rather witty lol. DEM PROMO SKILLS. Bo Dallas needs to go fucking do one though. Horrible on the mic but I suppose he's only 22 or whatever. 

NXT > RAW & SD tbh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kidd/Cesaro? Will need to watch that in the near future.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Going to be stuck in a hotel later tonight for a bit so I stockpiled some shit to watch. Finally going to get around to Cena/Punk NOC. I also just downloaded Triple H/Edge from Japan 2005 since I saw it mentioned by somebody in here. I can't really recall anything about that one tbh. The same show has Flair/Michaels on it too which is even better. I have the entire ER 12 PPV on standby incase I really get bored lol. Should be fun.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've yet to see HHH/Edge from that Japan show but I recall really enjoying Flair/HBK.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Summerslam 2005:

Benoit vs Orlando Jordan (c) for the US title: 1/4 *. Crowd was going absolutely apeshit for Benoit which was the main reason why I didn't give this a dud. Lol at Benoit post match

Edge vs Matt Hardy: :lmao at the chants toward Lita, fuck! Nice little brawl, although it was only about 5 mins. **

Eddie vs Rey ladder match: I remember watching this match and not liking it, I thought the ending was really dumb. On second watch, it's alot better. Some great spots throughout the match, like when Eddie put Rey in between 2 ladders and flipped onto him. Backdrop by Rey on the ladder to Eddie was nice as well. VERY nice 3 Amigos spot too. Ending was...still fucking dumb even 7 years later. Still, worth the watch. *** 1/4

Kurt vs Eugene: Again, 1/4 * just for the crowd. Not much else to say about this

Orton vs Taker: Very good match, great selling throughout, some great back and forths, hell I might have even liked this better than their fucking Mania match. *** 3/4

Cena(c) vs Y2J for the WWE championship: I liked how Jericho worked on Cena's ribs the entire match (the 3 elbows spot was great), the first half of this match was very boring but the second half it really picked up. Great counters from Jericho, and a good ending as well. The first half was so bad though, brought down my rating on the match a bit. ***

Batista (c) vs JBL No Holds Barred match for the WHC: Is it just me, or was this really boring? Outside of Batista's spear and the powerbomb on the steps, there's nothing else that I cared for here. **

Hogan vs HBK: This actually wasn't that bad, alot less overselling than I remembered. :lmao at the We Want Bret chant, this crowd has been money all night. Typical ending, but it's Hogan, he looked like he could barely move around this match. ** 1/4

Overall: ** 1/2, matches were either very short, or went on too long (main event). 2 DUDs if you ignore the crowd,, very underwhelming main event considering the hype that match got, but there's also a great match in Orton/Taker and 2 good ones in the ladder match and Cena/Y2J (although I'd start watching from the second half of the match).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah and Segunda, it's very understandable if you didn't get the Michaels/Taker matches (I know you like WM26 Seg), as long as you see why other people do 'get' it. 




Ether said:


> What's the best Cena/Jericho match?


I'd probably go with the Survivor Series '08 match based on the storytelling of Cena returning from injury and questioning his abilities, and Jericho controlling most of the match with a strongly focused attack on Cena's neck during the match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Clique said:


> Yeah and Segunda, it's very understandable if you didn't get the Michaels/Taker matches (I know you like WM26 Seg), as long as you see why other people do 'get' it.


Exactly. It would be boring if everyone had the same opinions about every match and wrestler. Besides the people in this thread generally argue their position well, rather than hiding behind defensive slandering of someone else's opinion simply because it contradicts there's.

Btw the folks in the Graphics section have put together some banners as you requested for the Classic Wrestling Section. Safe to say a couple are pretty spectacular.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Clique said:


> Yeah and Segunda, it's very understandable if you didn't get the Michaels/Taker matches (I know you like WM26 Seg), as long as you see why other people do 'get' it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a theme with Cena/Jericho? I don't remember their raw match earlier this year well, but Jericho worked a body part (ribs) the entire match during their Summerslam 05 match as well.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That's one of the biggest draws for me in this thread because everyone has such different tastes. I'll have to take a look at those graphics.

Ether, I honestly don't remember Jericho/Cena's Raw TV matches but they did something similar to what you're talking about in the Armageddon 08 match. It added so well with the story of Survivor Series return, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone who doesn't like all the HBK/Taker matches suck and are complete retards and should go fuc... oh wait, no slandering you say? Damn.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Whats up fellow wrestle nerds? It’s been months since I have been on this forum. Sorry if this has been talked about already (Im sure it has) but what matches do you see (or want to see) on the upcoming releases….


Bret Hart Unreleased Matches
Foley set
HHH set


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Whats up fellow wrestle nerds? It’s been months since I have been on this forum. Sorry if this has been talked about already (Im sure it has) but what matches do you see (or want to see) on the upcoming releases….
> 
> 
> Bret Hart Unreleased Matches
> ...


Thought I recognised the username! Welcome back. Unless I didn't like you. Then you go to hell!!! 

HHH set doesn't interest me in the slightest aside from a documentary on his career.

As for Bret and Foley... I have no idea what I'd want on a Foley set that isn't already available. Bret matches will all be new (hopefully :side: ) but I can't think off hand any of his better matches that like Foley aren't already released lol. 

Yey for me being super helpful and informative!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I think you liked me. At least tolerated me which I can work with. 

The only big match I can think of with Foley is the trip threat with Austin and HHH at Summerslam 99. I dont think thats on any other comps. Im hoping for a lot of Cactus Jack stuff from WCW and maybe some ECW love. 

As for Bret I agree most of his best matches are out. There were some iron man matches with Owen at house shows summer of 94 Id looooove for one of those to see the light of day. A bunch of old tag matches and some stampede stuff would be awesome. 

The biggest HHH match I can think of that isnt on a comp is the LMS match with Jericho at Fully Loaded 2000. I love that match but I have that ppv already.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Austin/HHH/Foley is pretty shitty so I wouldn't want it there. Plus I own SS 99 on DVD. Foley set needs more Cactus from WCW. Like the other great Sting match from 91.

As for HHH, LMS match is great and all, but yeah, got it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> what matches do you see (or want to see) on the upcoming releases….
> 
> Bret Hart Unreleased Matches


Hart/Perfect MSG '89
Hart/DiBiase MSG '91
Hart/Taker MSG '92
Hart/Flair '92 1st WWF Title Win
Hart/Backlund Survivor Series 94
Hart & Bulldog/Hart & Backlund Action Zone '95
Hart/Hart '95 Lumberjack Match "Owen Wins WWF Title"
Hart/Hart Raw '95 No Holds Barred
Hart/Austin South Africa '96
Final Four '97
Hart/Sid Cage Match Raw '97 (for the promo after)
Hart/Austin Revenge Of The Taker '97
Hart/Flair Souled Out '98
Hart/Savage Slamboree '98

Maybe rare encounters such as Hart/Rocky Maivia Raw '97 or Hart/Shamrock Raw '97 that is also Bret's last Raw match before Survivor Series '97. Of course some Hart Foundation matches will be included too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ether said:


> What's the best Cena/Jericho match?


I'ma have to go with SummerSlam 2005. Absolutely loved it and crowd was electric. Survivor Series 08 was great too.



Hailsabin said:


> Great match. ****.
> 
> Never noticed the sign part. Maybe because I own the match via Edge's Decade of Decadence DVD and it may be removed.


It's obviously taken out or the camera angle is changed when it takes place. It's IMPOSSIBLE not to notice it in the original version. I rarely pay attention to things like that and I got completely distracted from the ring action when it happened so that says something.



Starbuck said:


> Going to be stuck in a hotel later tonight for a bit so I stockpiled some shit to watch. Finally going to get around to Cena/Punk NOC. I also just downloaded Triple H/Edge from Japan 2005 since I saw it mentioned by somebody in here. I can't really recall anything about that one tbh. The same show has Flair/Michaels on it too which is even better. I have the entire ER 12 PPV on standby incase I really get bored lol. Should be fun.


That'd have to be me. HHH/Edge is nothing special if you ask me. It's not bad either, though. The highlight of that Japan show was the Jericho/Benoit submission match and over on Smackdown, Kurt Angle and Mysterio put on a hell of a match too. Those are the highlights!


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

> Hart/Perfect MSG '89


This is a gem.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought that match was already on a DVD? Or am I just confusing it with an episode of MSG Classics or something lol?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ether said:


> What's the best Cena/Jericho match?


Virtually all of them. I'm a huge advocate of their chemistry.

Survivor Series 2008 is their best I'd say. Great, great match. (****1/4)

Also...

_Summerslam 2005_ ~ ***3/4

_RAW 8/22/05_ ~ ***3/4

_Armageddon 2008_ ~ ****

_RAW 2/9/09_ ~ ***1/2

_RAW 4/20/09_ ~ ***3/4 (would have been 4 with a clean finish)​
They also duked it out RAW in 2010 in what was another good match based on my memory. Take your pick. All are worth it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hart/Oerfect was on the Mr. Perfect DVD.

Cena/Jericho had a fun match this year with Jericho looking a lot better he did against Punk.



Segunda Caida said:


> I recall Michaels' 'moonsault' to the floor which sets up the Taker suicide dive looking a little sloppy, to the point where it looked more like an inverted crossbody by the end.


TBF that crooked moonsault was fucking awesome. Michaels took a really insane bump.




Segunda Caida said:


> Fair enough, that's perfectly understandable. I guess maybe because I'd come to not expect such layered storytelling and 'smarter' work in the majority of Shawn's post comeback run, that maybe getting this sort of storytelling makes me appreicate it more? I dunno, but it sticks out to me as WWE nailing a better balance between overt storytelling without beating it into the viewer's heads to the point where it becomes a nuisance and detracts from the match: i.e Taker/HHH HIAC with the HHH/HBK monologue and Shawn's dire acting after the SCM-Pedigree kickout.


Taker/HHH is the worst piece of acting I've ever seen Shawn do in his life. 



Segunda Caida said:


> The suicide dive spot really did add an extra dimension to the WM25 match, namely because Taker looked legit fucked on the landing and it wasn't clear how they were going to continue the match with him in a seemingly fragile condition. That being said, I don't think anyone expected Michaels to win at WM25 (not saying he was a favourite at 26 either, but at least the idea of a rematch may have worked a few people into thinking there was a slightly better chance), and without trying to be too harsh I do think that lessens the impact the suicide dive spot has on the match. Like, if you have the same spot at WM26, where people may be conditioned into giving Michaels a slightly better chance..then I think the drama increases a lot. Whereas with WM25 it always comes off as a spot which does admittedly add drama to the match, but the feeling that Michaels was never going to win just sort of handicaps the amount of drama it can evoke. This is probably another scenario of me and you seeing the sequence differently, although off memory once Taker sort of recuperates I don't recall him looking as 'troubled' in the finishing stretch. Admittedly post impact and for a minute or two afterwards there is a real sense of shock that he may be done, but I don't find that carries through to the end of the match (a rewatch might put this better in perspective though).


IDK how many people would have seen Shawn winning in 2010. It was pretty clear he was planning to retire soon and the 'Streak v Career' stuff kind of gave it away a lot more. I don't think he would have won in 09 though, either.



Segunda Caida said:


> As for the leg-work, I thought Michaels went as far as he could with it. He exploited it and worked it over and targeted it with his best submission in the hopes of securing the win, but as it became obvious Taker wouldn't submit he resorted to the SCM which had always been his trump card. I felt they made it central to Taker looking vulnerable and giving Michaels the best chance yet to end the streak, but it always felt more like a means to controlling the match rather than how Michaels would ultimately win.


Yeah the leg work is something you'd remember a lot better than I do. I'm watching both matches later today. 



Clique said:


> Yeah and Segunda, it's very understandable if you didn't get the Michaels/Taker matches (I know you like WM26 Seg), as long as you see why other people do 'get' it.


That's it, I kinda don't get why people like it so much. I'd hate to sound like an ass at any point and I never meant to if I did, but this is one match where it doesn't seem like much is going on. It obviously doesn't bother me that people like it so much, it's just a bit of a surprise. I don't like Angle v Shane McMahon, but I get why people love it. I don't like HHH/Taker from this year, but I get why people love it. I guess 'don't get why people love it' is the wrong sentence to use, but it's kind of a surprise to me that people think Michaels/Taker is an all time great match. I kind of watch and feel "that's it?". I think HBK/Taker DESTROYS both Angle/McMahon and HHH/Taker so I don't even know why I'd think that. I guess is because both those felt bigger to me, but I don't like the work. The work in Michaels/Taker is all good, but not much of a feels big to me, or anything above "Pretty Damn Good Match". I'm not one to really have big expectations for a Mania main event so Pretty Damn Good can be satisfying, but everyone's reactions to it being an all time great match makes my opinion look like I don't even enjoy it.  I'm missing something, I guess. This must be my Warrior/Savage 2.0. Like I said - watching it AGAIN today.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The bump was pretty darn impressive considering Michaels' age and body at the time, but the moonsault still looked like total shit 

Also, so we don't pollute the thread with a seemingly never ending debate between Taker/HBK, anyone care to give me a proper explanation as to why Dolph Ziggler is considered one of the best workers in WWE today? I mean all this talk about certain matches being better than the other got me thinking about some of the differing tastes people have in wrestlers, and the fascination with Ziggler really springs to mind.

I mean yes he's a bump machine and he's got a generally good finishing stretch in him...but honestly what else does he have? I can't tell you how often I watch a Ziggler match, especially one on PPV and get the impression I could cut out 2/3rds of the match, watch just the finishing stretch and not really miss all that much. Maybe its just because I appreciate the workers who make a story central to almost everything that goes on in the ring, but Ziggler outside of his bumping really doesn't do much at all for me. His control segments are arguably amongst the dullest on the roster and they never go anywhere, he just hits a few kicks and ground submissions and it just feels like filler before the finishing stretch. Compare him to someone like Drew Mcintyre as a heel worker, and outside of the bumping I can't fathom what Ziggler does that Mcintyre doesn't do ten times better.

More I watch Ziggler the more I think he'd be better suited to working as a face. He's got the energetic bumping to make a heel look good, and I think him working from the bottom would only be for the better because he hasn't really shown me that he can effectively control a match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I kinda bought it b/c Taker sort of brushed him aside. Maybe I'll think shit of it today, IDK.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I've got Rockers/Orient Express from the 1991 Royal Rumble ready to watch tonight, am I correct in thinking that's the tag in their series which people consider to be the best?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena/Jericho this year wasn't bad. Only around 5 minutes though. Too bad it didn't get more.

Angle/Shane got a mention. I dug it. Maybe only because of how inadverently brutal it became. The parts were greater than the sum, but at the end of the day it's a wildly fun brawl, imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Lol @ that Mizark gif.

I was turned into a fan last year when he went from being a smiling jobbing giant to monster heel after being given the opportunity. Also glad his title run actually felt like a real reign rather than some stupid one week transitional reign. One of my favorite super-short matches is Benoit vs Henry from Raw in early 2004. It lasts 2 minutes but is enjoyable while it takes place. Funny thing is Benoit kayfabe injured Henry for almost two years by the Crossface. :lol Also marked for Benoit doing the rare top rope shoulder block.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmadj3_chris-benoit-vs-mark-henry-raw-2-2-2004_sport


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That was a fun match, didn't remember it happening. Love their SD 06 match though, definitely one of Henry's best ever. Oh man, Benoit Vs Hall of Pain Henry would have been epic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Benoit is so dangerous. (am I terrible? eh, I still loved the guy's work)

I thought you were gonna mention the 5/26/06 Benoit/Henry match where Henry demolishes Benoit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> That Benoit is so dangerous. (am I terrible? eh, I still loved the guy's work)
> 
> I thought you were gonna mention the 5/26/06 Benoit/Henry match where Henry demolishes Benoit.


Ha, it was so random when I watched the Raw from the week after. Henry suffered a real injury within that timeframe, so to put over the next World Champion in Benoit, they replayed that footage and claimed that he put Henry out of action for a long time by the Crippler Crossface. As for the parenthesis... Nah, don't worry. Murderer or innocent, I still love the guy but as long as the joke is not some outdated "LULZ DEY WERE SUPPOSD 2 TAP!!!11" shit, I don't mind it. Hell, I have one in mind from the Raw episode where he wrestles Muhammad Hassan. Daivari says "Kill him" (actually "beat him" but both are the same word) and he's lucky Benoit didn't understand Persian... or else shit would go down. 

And for the 2006 match, I have not gotten there yet. The one negative thing about that match is Benoit goes out of action for 5 months after it so Smackdown may lose some of its entertainment when I get there.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Hart/Oerfect was on the Mr. Perfect DVD.


This one is on Perfect's DVD which actually is the better match - http://www.wwe.com/videos/madison-square-garden-mr-perfect-vs-bret-hart-4241989-25058864

They've had so many matches together, I was actually thinking of this bout from MSG in '89 - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6umvt_bret-hitman-hart-vs-mr-perfect_sport


Hart/Perfect also had a quality match in Toronto from '89 as well. I've seen all of these on WWE Classics (formally WWE 24/7) On Demand:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Ha, it was so random when I watched the Raw from the week after. Henry suffered a real injury within that timeframe, so to put over the next World Champion in Benoit, they replayed that footage and claimed that he put Henry out of action for a long time by the Crippler Crossface. As for the parenthesis... Nah, don't worry. Murderer or innocent, I still love the guy but as long as the joke is not some outdated "LULZ DEY WERE SUPPOSD 2 TAP!!!11" shit, I don't mind it. Hell, I have one in mind from the Raw episode where he wrestles Muhammad Hassan. Daivari says "Kill him" (actually "beat him" but both are the same word) and he's lucky Benoit didn't understand Persian... or else shit would go down.
> 
> And for the 2006 match, I have not gotten there yet. The one negative thing about that match is Benoit goes out of action for 5 months after it so Smackdown may lose some of its entertainment when I get there.


I think we've all learned to cope with the reality that fell upon Benoit. No big deal. I mean it was, but eh. He's a phenomenal wrestler. That's all that needs to be discussed. The joke was there. I took it.  

WWE took a negative and put a positive spin on it. Only added to show how legit, or 4 REAL, Benoit was while gunning to become World Heavyweight Champion.

The crazy thing about how awesome Smackdown circa 2006 is that the show was still on fire even w/o him. Finlay & Regal aided in the Benoit absense. Plus, you know when he returns he give us vs Regal at No Mercy. Picks up right where he left off.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't get the Ziggler love either, *Caida*, not ring wise or character wise. There isn't one stand out thing about him apart from his bumping tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Regarding DOLPH, I can see why some people might not enjoy him from a technical/storytelling standpoint, but for me it's a refreshing change of pace watching someone not holding back inside the ropes. The guy lays it all out there during every match, and makes everything appear a little bit more believable. If anything can get me to suspend disbelief during an era in which kayfabe is all but dead, I can get on board with it. Danielson does a great job of this, too, albeit he's far superior to Ziggler in other in-ring aspects.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll be honest, most of my love for Ziggler is his bumping. That and he blew me away at a house show last year. Guy is AMAZING at stalling and just being a cocky PRICK heel that he simply doesn't seem to be allowed to do on TV. Which is a shame because he's way better than what we see on TV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dig DOLPH's in ring work.

Can't add much else to what TLK said. That + ring work = appealing. Plus I gravitate towards his arrogance. Nothing uber-original, but it's natural imo. Just dig him.

EDIT ~ YES @ the stalling.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't care enough about him to go seek stuff out of him off TV so until he starts actually doing it somewhere I can see it, I'll continue to not be bothered lol. Don't think he should be anywhere near a world title either. His eventual MITB cash in is going to be awful no doubt.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

brock is looking into my soul


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> That Benoit is so dangerous.


I find him rather boring tbh, dude even put his family to sleep for christ sake :side:

*I'm an awful human being.



Starbuck said:


> I don't get the Ziggler love either, *Caida*, not ring wise or character wise. There isn't one stand out thing about him apart from his bumping tbh.


Nice to see I'm not the only one. I don't even mean it as a slight on Ziggler, its just that whenever his name is brought up it seems comments about his bumping (why people confuse this with selling I still can't fathom) are the only thing that follows, and I'm just honestly curious if the Ziggler fans on here can share me with me what it is exactly that makes them drawn to him.

Anyways, more tag team wrestling ~

*Rockers vs Orient Express, Royal Rumble (1/19/91)*





 



 




God damn was this worth all the hype it gets, tremendous STF match with the Rockers being excellent babyfaces and the Orient Express putting in a damn good methodical and calculating heel performance. Opening babyface stretch has some great heel miscommunication spots and gets the crowd really rabid and behind the Rockers, and they time everything to perfection and slowly build to the transition spot. Spot where Michaels spots the other member of the Express sneaking up behind him and moonsaults into a punch combo was really nifty and a super spot.

Actual transition spot is really well timed by both teams and really adds extra heat to the Orient Express whilst putting over their capabilities as a unit. I'm by no means the biggest Michaels fan on here, but I'll be damned if I ever grow tired of his tag team work. He's a stupendous babyface here, bumping and selling his arse off with every blow and really pulling the crowd into every sequence whilst Jannetty works the apron like a champ. The Orient Express have some really great classic tag team heel spots where they pull the ref around the ring to allow Fuji to hit Michaels with the cane as well as getting in some illegal double team moves behind the referee's back. Hope spot where Michaels looks to make the tag, only for the Express to blinside Jannetty and irish whip Michaels into a belt only for Michaels to dive onto the belt and pull both heels into another and then make the hot tag was the best sequence of the match and beautiful tag team wrestling.

Jannetty off the hot tag is everything you want him to be. Energetic and throwing punches and dropkicks left, right and centre. Actual finish is also extremely creative and well worked, with the Express teasing a screwjob finish when they launch Michaels to the floor and double team Jannetty, only for Michaels to interupt the second double team attempt and allow Jannetty to hit a silky smooth sunset flip counter for the flash pin.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BE AFRAID


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wonder if he's looking into mine too. If so, Mr Brock sir, can you tell me where it is?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks for the responses re. Ziggler. I guess my disliking/apathy towards him stems from his ring work which in the current setting really doesn't allow for much of a story to develop and therefore makes me feel like a lot of the match is directionless and lacking in any real substantive depth. I remember thinking he'd gotten better at acting more cocky and arrogant a few months back and really interjecting his character into his matches and thus making his bumping something the crowd could strongly react to, but he's still really got to master the middle section of a match before he really spings to mind as a 'great worker'. Until he does that his matches will just largely feel inconsequential and lacking in a real story for me to really buy into him as a sleeper talent.

Be interested to see the difference in his house show work, judging by Cal's praise. I'm aware the house shows really are far better in allowing wrestlers to interact with the crowd and really employ some antics they can't afford with how little TV time they're afforded.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm with Caida on Benoit being a tad on the boring side. There are a handful of his matches that I really, really enjoy, but as a character I found him to be pretty dull.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm with Caida on Benoit being a tad on the boring side. There are a handful of his matches that I really, really enjoy, but as a character I found him to be pretty dull.


That wasn't actually meant to be serious btw, it was more an excuse to setup the following joke about the Benoit episode. Classy as ever me...


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

nah, benoit was epic. even when i was a mark his wwe matches legit got me excited

now malenko, that guy was dull as dishwater


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well I knew you weren't serious about the joke, but at any rate, I find Benoit to be a little on the boring side.

edit - agreed 100% on Malenko.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My last post defined what it is about DOLPH I like, Caida.

:mark: :mark: :mark: @ Rockers vs Orient Express. UNBELEIVABLE. Love when Rockers get super momentum in the early going, then Shawn comes charging off the ropes into a BOSS FLYING FOREARM~! You can hear the air literally leave the body of the crowd. It's so fantastic. The little things like that. That's what makes stuff grand.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll report on Dolph after my house show outing later this week lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Malenko is awful unless he's working sub 10 minute mat contests with Norman Smiley or La Parka. Minute the match gets past 10 minutes and he has to make his submissions part of a story to develop a flow/story in the match is when it all goes to shreads. I can't tell you how many matches of his I watched for the WCW poll and how good they could have been if he'd have strung a half interesting and compelling control segment.

The aforementioned Smiley match fucking rules though, and its on youtube.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Well I knew you weren't serious about the joke, but at any rate, I find Benoit to be a little on the boring side.
> 
> edit - agreed 100% on Malenko.


Not everyone can cut those enthralling 20 minute promos like your favorite wrestler can. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The fans chanting "We will, we will ROCK you" to cheer on The Rockers is AWESOME in that RR match .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Not everyone can cut those enthralling 20 minute promos like your favorite wrestler can. 8*D


I'd rather watch a 20 minute promo by THE GAME than sit through 20 minutes of staring at Benoit's ugly, toothless mug. 

edit - La Parka mention :hb


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Malenko had has good match with scotty too hotty iirc , sometime in 2001. Really surprised me when I watched it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Not everyone can cut those enthralling 20 minute promos like your favorite wrestler can. 8*D


It's a skill


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> My last post defined what it is about DOLPH I like, Caida.
> 
> :mark: :mark: :mark: @ Rockers vs Orient Express. UNBELEIVABLE. Love when Rockers get super momentum in the early going, then Shawn comes charging off the ropes into a BOSS FLYING FOREARM~! You can hear the air literally leave the body of the crowd. It's so fantastic. The little things like that. That's what makes stuff grand.


Yeah I covered the Dolph responses in the next post after the tag review, all the comments caught me off guard when the page loaded with my review and I figured it best to answer quickly.

Fully agreed on that comment about the tag and tag wrestling in general. You seen the Rock n Roll Express/Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express/Ernie Ladd 6 man and Midnight Express vs Fantastics 4/26/88 I reviewed a few pages back? Two of the greatest tags in US history and a perfect example of why southern tag formula is one of the greatest wrestling styles.

Gonna watch Rockers/Brainbusters and Rockers/Powers of Pain before the night is over.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

At least HHH can come up with enough material for a 20 minute promo. :side: I doubt Benoit cut 20 minutes worth a promos his entire career.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I don't care enough about him to go seek stuff out of him off TV so until he starts actually doing it somewhere I can see it, I'll continue to not be bothered lol. Don't think he should be anywhere near a world title either. His eventual MITB cash in is going to be awful no doubt.


I agree with that. He just seems so bland and his ring work wouldn't be as memorable had it not been for his overselling.



Hailsabin said:


> I think we've all learned to cope with the reality that fell upon Benoit. No big deal. I mean it was, but eh. He's a phenomenal wrestler. That's all that needs to be discussed. The joke was there. I took it.
> 
> WWE took a negative and put a positive spin on it. Only added to show how legit, or 4 REAL, Benoit was while gunning to become World Heavyweight Champion.
> 
> The crazy thing about how awesome Smackdown circa 2006 is that the show was still on fire even w/o him. Finlay & Regal aided in the Benoit absense. Plus, you know when he returns he give us vs Regal at No Mercy. Picks up right where he left off.


I personally got different feelings on the whole thing but even when it took place originally (I wasn't even into wrestling), I chose not to judge him. So I could have only gotten more friendly as I became a wrestling fan and checked out his phenomenal talent.

And yeah, it just came at the right time. Benoit had just come to Raw after the Rumble victory, he met Henry in his first match, then Henry suffered a real injury so they used it to put him over as him being 4 REAL! Then the week after that, he made Flair tap out.

Also Benoit's absence is not the only blow Smackdown dealt with as Kurt Angle and Randy Orton were drafted away to ECW and Raw, respectively, around the same time. But I guess the show still remained quality since the in-ring talent was great.


EDIT: On Benoit being boring. I don't know about that. He never really got a chance to talk on the mic and when he did, it did sound scripted and all but he was never downright bad. And I'd rather listen to a promo of his than HHH where he rambles for 20 minutes before he actually gets to the point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Malenko had has good match with scotty too hotty iirc , sometime in 2001. Really surprised me when I watched it.


Backlash 2000 . Greatest PPV event ever. Except for WM 19. My favourite for sure though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Malenko had has good match with scotty too hotty iirc , sometime in 2001. Really surprised me when I watched it.


I remember them having a really good Light-heavyweight Championship match at Backlash 2000. That show was also a stellar PPV overall too. Dean's had some quality work in his career but I can agree that many of his matches lack a focused control segment and sometimes he switches which body part he wants to work on mid-match which in WCW *may* have been excused if you want to argue with him being the "Man of 1000 Holds" and he's just destroying his opponent with hold after hold.



The Lady Killer said:


> At least HHH can come up with enough material for a 20 minute promo. :side: I doubt Benoit cut 20 minutes worth a promos his entire career.


And I wouldn't want to see Benoit cut a 20 minute promo. I also don't want to see HHH cut a 20 minute promo either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'd rather watch a 20 minute promo by THE GAME than sit through 20 minutes of staring at Benoit's ugly, toothless mug.
> 
> edit - La Parka mention :hb


boooo. Benoit's promos were like his matches with Orlando Jordan. Short enough that people would care.

La Parka IMO



Lil'Jimmy said:


> Malenko had has good match with scotty too hotty iirc , sometime in 2001. Really surprised me when I watched it.


Backlash 2000. Remained under the 10 minute umbrella too. So, the statement rings true. (Y)



Starbuck said:


> It's a skill


Better possessed by Foley, Flair, Taker, & Punk.  (although I can't recall a SUPER lengthy Foley promo  )



Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah I covered the Dolph responses in the next post after the tag review, all the comments caught me off guard when the page loaded with my review and I figured it best to answer quickly.
> 
> Fully agreed on that comment about the tag and tag wrestling in general. You seen the Rock n Roll Express/Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express/Ernie Ladd 6 man and Midnight Express vs Fantastics 4/26/88 I reviewed a few pages back? Two of the greatest tags in US history and a perfect example of why southern tag formula is one of the greatest wrestling styles.
> 
> Gonna watch Rockers/Brainbusters and Rockers/Powers of Pain before the night is over.


(Y)

No, I can't say I've seen either. But, I'm willing to watch since it involves Midnight Express + Southern Style. Those via youtube or you own them? Hope I can luck out here.

Good lord. Rockers vs Brainbusters series. Often credited the first one as one of my all time favorite tag team bouts.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only person who I can listen to for 20 minutes is The Rock. He's always got some shit to make me stay listening. Now HHH, he takes 20 minutes where he rambles about whateverthefuck and then gets to the point at the very end. He just HAS to do it all the time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd rather stab myself in the penis than listen to Rock cut a promo. Guy was terrible. Not at the whole "keeping the crowd in the palm of his hands" shit, but actually saying works that weren't made up bollacks that would only be funny to a 5 year old (and rock fans, apparently). Didn't help that he cut the same promo for about 3 years either .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I personally got different feelings on the whole thing but even when it took place originally (I wasn't even into wrestling), I chose not to judge him. So I could have only gotten more friendly as I became a wrestling fan and checked out his phenomenal talent.


Weren't even watching wrestling back in 2007? No wonder the knowledge of classic tag team wrestling was lost on you. :hmm:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Rockers vs Powers of Pain, WWF MSG (1/15/90)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x84zw1_powers-of-pain-vs-the-rockers_sport?search_algo=2

Holy shit, this only goes 10 minutes but what we get is freaking incredible and should be mandatory viewing for anyone. Rockers run some really excellent cat and mouse spots in the beginning and use their quickness and athleticism to counter-act the power of their opponents and we get some really fun 'almost got 'em' sequences before Jannetty gets a little too cute and ends up being dropped with a big powerbomb. 

Jannetty's FIP spell is truly superb. He takes about 5 or 6 lunatic bumps which look disgusting and the POP are really tremendous in brutalising him with power based offence whilst also distracting the ref long enough to illegally choke Jannetty as well as have Fuji assault him with the cane. Crowd are ridiculously loud for everything going on and the hot tag to Shawn is brilliantly timed and the finishing stretch is tons of fun with the Rockers again using their agility to evade and turn the tide on their bigger adversaries. Finish sees Fuji trip Michaels coming off of the ropes and has him eat a flash pin. Really excellent sub 10 minute match with tons of nutty bumps from Jannetty, a breathtaking pace, some really intricate and entertaining Cat and Mouse sequences with the Rockers toying with the POP and some great power offence from the POP.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

best 3 promo cutters ever

jake da snake
roddy
mick


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, I'm gonna chuck that on my list. I'm gonna watch it as soon as I finish up Finlay vs Smith right NOW.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> No, I can't say I've seen either. But, I'm willing to watch since it involves Midnight Express + Southern Style. Those via youtube or you own them? Hope I can luck out here.
> 
> Good lord. Rockers vs Brainbusters series. Often credited the first one as one of my all time favorite tag team bouts.





Segunda Caida said:


> *Rock 'n' Roll Express & Jim Duggan v Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd, (Mid South 6/8/84)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Watch both asap. 6 man from Mid South honestly comes to mind as the best 6 man the US has ever put on, and the Midnight Express/Fantastics tag is at worse the 2nd best tag match in US history, alongside the Final Conflict 83 Steel Cage match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I'd rather stab myself in the penis than listen to Rock cut a promo. Guy was terrible. Not at the whole "keeping the crowd in the palm of his hands" shit, but actually saying works that weren't made up bollacks that would only be funny to a 5 year old (and rock fans, apparently). Didn't help that he cut the same promo for about 3 years either .


lol, you and your Rock hate never ceases to make me laugh. 



Hailsabin said:


> Weren't even watching wrestling back in 2007? No wonder the knowledge of classic tag team wrestling was lost on you. :hmm:


No, I was not. Funny thing is, a friend of mine kept coming over and showing youtube videos of wrestling or playing one of the SVR games but I just showed no interest. Then fast forward to 2010 and the tables have turned. I'm becoming a wrestling fan while he's completely stopped watching. 

As for the classic tag team wrestling thing... of course, I'm a bit new to this so that's why I'm watching full years currently. Will eventually make my way back in time towards the 90s as well when I'm finished with WWE's years of glory. So it's safe to say, I'm remaining a wrestling fan for a long time and the whole "it's fake" thing wont play me like it's done everyone else I know.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I'd rather stab myself in the penis than listen to Rock cut a promo. Guy was terrible. Not at the whole "keeping the crowd in the palm of his hands" shit, but actually saying works that weren't made up bollacks that would only be funny to a 5 year old (and rock fans, apparently). Didn't help that he cut the same promo for about 3 years either .


lol wouldnt say terrible but everyone has their taste. 



KingCal said:


> Backlash 2000 . Greatest PPV event ever. Except for WM 19. My favourite for sure though.



I can agree on this. Two great ones right there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Better possessed by Foley, Flair, *Taker*, & Punk.  (although I can't recall a SUPER lengthy Foley promo  )




The last few Foley promos have been lengthy, haven't they? The interactions with Punk are all 10+ minutes, at least (or they seem like it).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've never been on the Ziggler train. I started liking him in 2010 as a midcarder (after hating him), but his way of working a big main event/World Title match is terrible. I never want to watch his Orton or Sheamus or Punk PPV matches from this year again. Good bumper, but he oversells. Can be pretty boring on offense. 




Segunda Caida said:


> Malenko is awful unless he's working sub 10 minute mat contests with Norman Smiley or La Parka. Minute the match gets past 10 minutes and he has to make his submissions part of a story to develop a flow/story in the match is when it all goes to shreads. I can't tell you how many matches of his I watched for the WCW poll and how good they could have been if he'd have strung a half interesting and compelling control segment.
> 
> The aforementioned Smiley match fucking rules though, and its on youtube.


Watched a Smiley match earlier this year. I remember watching it literally the day before you first mentioned it in this thread. Mind-reading weirdo. 

Malenko's really, really hit or miss, but he definitely excels at the short WorldWide/Pro/Saturday Night/Any WCW B-Show matches. His best long matches and performances are v Ultimo at Starrcade and v Mysterio from Germany.

Malenko v La Parka? THAT I have to fucking see. Michaels/Taker can wait.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker can cut a good promo when his gimmick isn't restricted to zombie talk and three words.

There's only a few people I want to see talking for like 15-20 minutes. Austin and Vince are on that shortlist.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Malenko's really, really hit or miss, but he definitely excels at the short WorldWide/Pro/Saturday Night/Any WCW B-Show matches. His best long matches and performances are v Ultimo at Starrcade and v Mysterio from Germany.


v Mysterio @ HH 96 was one I really enjoyed. Top rope powerbomb ftw (literally).

edit - I know, Clique. I like fucking w/Cody because I know Taker's his favorite.  He bashes THE GAME all the time so I figured a little retaliation was in order.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker's my favorite too so I felt I had to jump in and defend him too!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL I knew I shouldn't have badmouthed him...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who be bad mouthing THE TAKER? Lets fight, motherfucker!

Heyman is someone I could listen to for 20+ minutes with a promo.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah, there's quite a few Taker marks in here (Cal, Redead, sabin, me) but you've got some support from your fellow Triple H marks (Starbuck & KOK).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:side:

I could listen to Heyman/Vince/Foley/Rock/Austin/HHH o) for 20 mins.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> v Mysterio @ HH 96 was one I really enjoyed. Top rope powerbomb ftw (literally).
> 
> edit - I know, Clique. I like fucking w/Cody because I know Taker's his favorite.  He bashes THE GAME all the time so I figured a little retaliation was in order.


I was about to question your taste until you admitted it was payback for a GAME slight. 

Mick's recent ones were decent length. idk if they did last that long. Maybe the first Foley/Punk one did. Most of Foley's seem to stay under 10 minutes but he gets his point across immensely regardless. 

I like lengthy Vince promos. The way RAW the night after King of the Ring 1998 began ruled. It was Vince yammering for 10 minutes with all of that HEAT. Then Austin came out to add on about 10 more minutes. First 30 minutes was taken up to hype the main event and it ruled. Reason why the characters in the Attitude Era were > than the majority of the matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh, Vince. I could listen to that troll talk all day. He's just so hilarious and witty. Best non-wrestler on the mic. Heyman is up there but he can also go the HHH route and get redundant after some point and his constant repeating of words can get on my nerves at times. "PAUL HEYMAN'S SMACKDOWN... Paul Heyman's Smackdown... my client... my client... my client". Although I can never tire from hearing "BBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOCK LEEEEEESSSSSSNAAAAAAAAR!".



Clique said:


> Yeah, there's quite a few Taker marks in here (Cal, Redead, sabin, me) but you've got some support from your fellow Triple H marks (Starbuck & KOK).


Is there anyone here who's neutral to most including the ones with an army of supporters here? That's how I feel about Taker & HHH. Respect their work and enjoy lots of it but not a huge mark for either.

For The Rock, it looks like he's got many marks all over this forum but here, there's no regular visitor that heavily supports him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

All the major Rock marks are fucking idiots who post in the GOAT thread and various other threads.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF MSG (1/23/89)*






Oh man, this is the shit right here. Opening babyface stretch is just so much fun with numerous comedy spots at the Brainbusters' expense and a really neat sub story with the Rockers utilising a few tricks the Brainbusters would generally utilise to distract the ref and stop Arn getting tagged into the match. Couple of early standout spots had to be Michaels getting pulled into the Brainbusters' corner and immediately escaping through the ropes to the floor, Blanchard pulling Michaels close to the corner only for Shawn to let go and send Blanchard flying into an unsuspecting Arn on the apron and the brilliant fabled tag team spot where Michaels enters the ring, catches Jannetty as he's double suplexed and brings him onto his feet and allows the Rockers to hit a dual superkick to send the Brainbusters bailing to the floor. Whole extened opening was just incredibly engaging with Arn doing some terrific punch drunk selling off of a Jannetty punch combo, and the sub plot with the Rockers out-thinking the Brainbusters and having their number at every opportunity really helped the flow of the match leading into the transition spot.

Speaking of the transition spot, its fucking tremendous. Blanchard is finally able to create some distance on the floor and baits the inexperienced Michaels into charging after him with Arn waiting around the corner ready to lariat an unsuspecting Michaels. The entire setup however may have been immediately bettered by Tully's AMAZING STRUT, holy shit it was incredible on a scale of utter douchebag and the smug grin fucking sealed it. Michaels playing FIP was naturally the peak of the match and he was more than assisted by Arn and Tully who really excel as the veterans now utilising all their experience to bait Jannetty into the ring and regularly distracting the ref allowing them to double team, choke, switch during abdominal stretches and generally just isolate Michaels from Jannetty for what feels like an eternity. Hope spot where Michaels charges over Arn into the corner and Jannetty almost falls into the ring as he reaches for the tag only to miss by an inch was a peach of a tease, and the way it setup the following Michaels flurry and hot tag was impeccable. 

Jannetty again kicks ass off of the hot tag, bringing plenty of fire, energy and passion and the crowd is now amped. Finishing stretch is short but oh so sweet with the Busters trying to exploit their younger counterparts and out-manouevre them, and sadly for the Rockers they succeed as during a distraction Arn is able to sweep the leg of Jannetty from the floor as he attempts a suplex on Tully, and then holds down the leg of Jannetty as Blanchard lands on top of Jannetty for the victory. Really great way to cap off a terrific match chock full of tag team specialities, a terrific story which dominated the beginning, middle and end of the match, the Rockers ultimately being outsmarted by the Busters after dominating them in the beginning through intelligence...just magnificent.


*Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Boston Garden (3/18/89)*





 



 




Another sterling effort from both these teams here. Match again features a very similar layout to the 1/23 match with the Rockers controlling the majority of the opening and again showing their intelligence in using Brainbuster tactics to infuriate Blanchard and Anderson and continually prevent them from tagging out to escape the onslaught. Arn has a couple of really comical moments where he begs for a time out as well as nearly tagging in Jannetty by mistake only to bail at the last second and Blanchard's strut after winning the first lockup is just hysterical. Small touch that I really enjoyed came when both the Rockers had figure fours on both the Brainbusters and Arn after being released took the opportunity to rake the eyes of Jannetty who was still getting up from the hold. It didn't set up the control sequence like a similar spot did in the Flair/Arn vs Hogan/Savage tag from Nitro, but I really loved just how aware Arn was to do something like that.

Actual transition spot again pays off from the early story of the Brainbusters being out wrestled and out thought by the Rockers, only for Arn to draw Michaels off the apron and allow them to drop Jannetty throat first off the ropes. The following control sequence might actualy eclipse that of the 1/23 match, with Jannetty really being abused by the Brainbusters who constantly pull the ref aside to set up illegal double teams and a sick spot where Arn chokes Jannetty with the tag rope. Michaels constantly gets drawn in by the Busters who really begin to find their feat in controlling and isolating Jannetty and I loved the teasing of a hot tag to Michaels being broken up by an expectant Blanchard who again draws Michaels and the referee aside long enough for Arn to toss Jannetty to the floor and prolong the misery. Should mention in all of this that Jannetty takes a lunatic missed crossbody bump to the floor via the turnbuckle which really looked frightening. 

Hot tag to Michaels is again perfectly timed after an excellent Jannetty FIP section and the finishing stretch is suitably chaotic with Michaels full of piss and vinegar trying to avenge the mugging of Jannetty whilst the Brainbusters seek to take advantage of any opening. Michaels however manages to overcome Arn via a superkick on the floor and then performs a rocket launcher via Jannetty assistance to Blanchard only for Arn to yank the referee out of the ring as he was set to count 3 and force a DQ victory for the Rockers. Finish could be bothersome to a few, but I loved it and it came off as a suitably dick move for Arn to take a DQ loss rather than be fairly beaten by the Rockers. Heat was monumental as well for Arn's scumbaggery.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've never been on the Ziggler train. I started liking him in 2010 as a midcarder (after hating him), but his way of working a big main event/World Title match is terrible. I never want to watch his Orton or Sheamus or Punk PPV matches from this year again. Good bumper, but he oversells. Can be pretty boring on offense.
> 
> Watched a Smiley match earlier this year. I remember watching it literally the day before you first mentioned it in this thread. Mind-reading weirdo.
> 
> ...


Yeah Malenko impressed me in both matches. His execution and fluidity in the ring isn't questionable, and therefore he definitely excells in the shorter matches where his holds can be used in a more painful fashion rather than having to be stretched out over numerous minutes. The Parka match wasn't as good as the Smiley encounter, largely because I prefer the British style Norman brought but its still damn good and you get some great Parka and Eddie fuckery. 

Malenko vs Eddie from the House Show in 97 is excellent and their best match together, though its one of Eddie's finest performances in the year and considering the role he was on in 1997 that is saying something. I think the Ultimo match did make my list in the end for WCW, remember being plesantly surprised by how well it turned out given its Malenko and Ultimo.

Your comments on Ziggler are pretty much the same as me. Interested to hear if you think he could work better as a face? I'd be interested since his bumping is tailor made for a face as well as a comedy heel, and I think the 'Show off' character is something that could easily be tweaked into a babyface character if they play up Ziggler's pride in not taking a shortcut with the MITB and trying to cash it in honourably in order to fully 'steal the show'.

EDIT: oops at the DP.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They didn't show up until 2/14/11 too. Ugg.

*ECW 5/19/09*
Dave Finlay vs David Hart Smith ~ ***1/2​
Strong outing from Smith in his re-debut with the company. These guys went out there and said "fuck WWE style. we're working this our way." Which they did. Completely fixated on the ground game. Striker was EXCELLENT on commentary in this match. Pointed out every single thing that needed to be said to grasp the simple psychology behind the match. Continuing to put over the veteran experience of Finlay. Putting over Smith to actually sound like a credible threat vs Finlay. Even dropped a World of Sport reference in the early going. Now, I might put this a notch higher than some. Smith's weardown segments, which last for about 8 minutes out of the 14:47, could be labled as boring. For me they came off as logical, solid ground work. Brought it to Finlay in the aspect that he could completely smother him on the offense as soon as he found an opening. Now while I did dig this match, it has one HUGE negative in it. The top wristlock/arm weardown that Finlay did in about the first 5 minutes of the match were completely FORGOTTEN by Smith the moment he shifted the momentum his way. That was bad. Not even a single sign of it. If it wasn't for that this match would have been rated even higher in my book. 

Interesting match nonetheless. Worked for me. Slow, but the good kind of slow. I think if Smith tried this match with a different opponent it may have been the worse match ever. Finlay is so awesome, and well trained to work a match like this, that it clicked on most levels pardon the lack of selling by Smith.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Edge vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown 06/07/2007*

When I dissect a wrestling match I often look to how the maneuvers performed by the wrestlers are tied into delivering storytelling and psychology. This match excels in telling the story of two men looking to deliver a physically intense match but also to prove who is better. As far as psychology is concerned, the corner turnbuckle would play a major role several times throughout the match (along with several other shifts). 

To start the match off, Benoit frustrates Edge with crisp arm drags which almost pull his arm out of socket because of their aggressive and technically sound delivery. Benoit punishes Edge literally from pillar to post in the first half of the contest with knife-edge chops, vicious knee shots to the head, and an explosive Irish Whip into the corner turnbuckle. What I like most about Benoit in this match is his constant use of knee shots to the head of Edge. Whether Benoit was on offense or defense, he continued to attack Edge with those unmerciful blows to the head. It made it look like Benoit was attempting to knock Edge out at any point in the match and it adds authenticity from my perspective. The Canadian Crippler then applied a European headlock on the World's Champion to add more pressure to the head and neck region of Edge which Benoit knows was once broken. 

But Edge was able to shift the match in his favor with an explosive Irish Whip of his own sending Benoit crashing sternum first into the top corner turnbuckle. Bret Hart made this spot famous but Benoit made it look more brutal than ever before. Both Edge and Benoit sell the physicality of the fight extremely well here. Edge sells Benoit’s chops like a knife is actually cutting through his chest and Benoit sells the sternum shot as if his heart was about to stop. 

Loved Edge's attack on Benoit’s shoulder with the intent to eliminate the Crippler Crossface. They feature some good payback spots here with one man attacking the body part the other man initially attacked. Every exchange is connected together so well. Benoit makes his matches some manly when he uses those session of headbutts to escape a hold or win a striking exchange.

The “Ultimate Opportunist” sets the match in his favor again by smartly using Benoit’s momentum to send him shoulder first into the top turnbuckle. Again, a lot of the match psychology is focused on momentum shifters with the turnbuckle and using the corner for an advantage. Edge would use Benoit’s momentum against him this time sending the worked over shoulder into the steel post. The psychology is very precise and perfect fit with into the finish. This is the last great match of Benoit's career.

_Match Rating_ - ******
_Link to watch_ - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x282kd_edge-vs-chris-benoit_news



*Edge vs. CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 04/25/2008*

At one time this was sort of a dream match for many wrestling fans pitting Edge’s sexual, crude, and sleazy “Rated R lifestyle” against Punk’s disciplined, no drugs/alcohol, and honorable “Straight Edge lifestyle.” This match came about when Punk called Edge out on being dishonorable for sleeping with General Manager Vickie Guerrero just to stay at the top on Smackdown.

What I liked from many of Edge’s matches in 2008 is the pacing and psychology he used with a deliberate start and thrilling finish. He perfected his “Ultimate Opportunist” character to a tee by picking apart his opponent and manipulating every situation in the most intelligent ways. It made sense for him not to rush a match but to set the pace and find an opening to capitalize on. 

On the other hand, we have CM Punk who employed a mixed style of holds and strikes into this match with submissions and kicks. I truly appreciate Punk’s ability to sell a beating so realistically and get his fans rooting for him so easily. Even though it was CM Punk that tried his own psychological game plan by methodically dissecting Edge’s arm in an attempt to take out the Spear, Edge would find his opening when CM Punk fell off the top turnbuckle with his back landing on the edge of the ring apron. Edge capitalized on Punk’s injured back by superbly working over it with knee shots and a body scissors. This is smart because Punk had been through multiple grueling matches all week long with the King of the Ring Tournament on RAW and a tag team match on ECW and Edge took advantage of Punk's durability being taken to the limit. As I pointed out earlier, Punk’s selling is stellar and you can see the pain from the agony in his eyes and the groans he made. 

When Punk made his comeback the match instantly picked up to a frenetic pace which meant so much at that point because the slow build allowed for me to be more engaged in the story Edge and Punk were telling. Pacing is so important in giving meaning to counter moves and false finishes they executed. The best wrestlers know how to structure the match to effectively pull it off. Punk gave some kicks to Edge towards the final stretch that really tested his durability at that point. I loved the slow burn pacing to the finish that featured some shenanigans in the end which I didn't mind for this TV match as it was done in a way were the loser still looked strong.

_Match Rating_ - **** 1/2*
_Link to watch_ - http://www.wwe.com/videos/smackdown-edge-vs-cm-punk-4252008-26008826

They also had a good match earlier that year on Smackdown -


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> They didn't show up until 2/14/11 too. Ugg.
> 
> *ECW 5/19/09*
> Dave Finlay vs David Hart Smith ~ ***1/2​
> ...


Smith worked a really fun WOS esque match on the last Superstars of 2010 with Regal. I remember thinking at the time it was comfortably the best Smith match I'd seen to date. Nice review there though, its Finlay so I'll gladly track it down at some point.

Finlay/Kidd from ECW 09 is also pretty nifty for the time it gets. Highlight being Finlay transitioning from a cloverleaf into a double knee to the spine spot.

EDIT: nice thoughts Clique. I recall Edge/Benoit being one of Edge's better matches of the 00s.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Your comments on Ziggler are pretty much the same as me. Interested to hear if you think he could work better as a face? I'd be interested since his bumping is tailor made for a face as well as a comedy heel, and I think the 'Show off' character is something that could easily be tweaked into a babyface character if they play up Ziggler's pride in not taking a shortcut with the MITB and trying to cash it in honourably in order to fully 'steal the show'.


Yeah, I've said plenty of times (first time was I think after No Waay Out) I think Ziggy could use a face turn. His bumping could be a symapthy-grabber. Sometime ago it seemed Vickie wanted to turn her back on him but didn't, IDK where they went with that. Another good time would be when he and Swagger were teaming. Dolph could have turned face in that. The crowd dislikes Vickie so much that anybody who goes against her would be instantly liked, I think. Dolph's already connected to her, so it's really written on the wall.

EDIT: Edge/Benoit is really awesome. Second best Edge match I can remember. It was a week before Benoit died, too. Ridiculous that he could pull that off then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> Smith worked a really fun WOS esque match on the last Superstars of 2010 with Regal. I remember thinking at the time it was comfortably the best Smith match I'd seen to date. Nice review there though, its Finlay so I'll gladly track it down at some point.
> 
> Finlay/Kidd from ECW 09 is also pretty nifty for the time it gets. Highlight being Finlay transitioning from a cloverleaf into a double knee to the spine spot.
> 
> EDIT: nice thoughts Clique. I recall Edge/Benoit being one of Edge's better matches of the 00s.


Oh, tell me about it. I own that match on DVD. Love it, love it, love it. Was blown away by them working it that style when I first saw it. I'd put the Regal match above this Finlay match. Still worth a watch imo. Both matches vs Kidd were really good, too. ***1/4 & *** respectively. Which is pretty darn good considering they were only 7 minutes each.

I don't remember that Edge/Benoit match one single bit. I want to watch right now but all of my focus is towards ECW. (which means I'm literally passing up a Edge/Benoit match for a Vladimir Koslov squash.)

_Speaking of Edge matches on Smackdown that owned_: he worked one in 2009 vs John Morrison that I recall being REALLY exhuberant and good. Put Morrison's face push over the top in the best way possible. Better than the exhibitions vs Benjamin did. Considering the level of Edge.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> *Edge vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown 06/07/2007*


Very good match. Last ever Smackdown match for Benoit right before he was drafted, was on ECW two weeks and then died. With all the injuries at the time, Benoit could have been the perfect World Champion instead of The Great Khali for the summer if he had stayed on Smackdown and the tragedy hadn't happened. Damn. :sad:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> I don't remember that Edge/Benoit match one single bit. I want to watch right now but all of my focus is towards ECW. (which means *I'm literally passing up a Edge/Benoit match for a Vladimir Koslov squash.*)



:jaydamn


I agree Morrison's face run on Smackdown in 2009 (it really started with his ECW match with Bourne) was exceptional for him. He had very good showings in TV matches with Edge, Punk, Hardy, Umaga, Mysterio, and Ziggler during that period. I adore his IC Title match against Mysterio in September.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Squash just ended. Funny because this ECW is in Los Angeles, so it wasn't a surprise that I'm familar with the two jobbers he owned, haha.

Watched that Bourne match a few days ago. Awesome stuff. Really set the tone for what was upcoming for him in the year. Mysterio was the tops. God damn that was phenomenal. He has an underrated match on Smackdown vs McIntyre which lead into their PPV bout. iirc it was even better than the match @ TLC.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs 1-2-3 Kid & Razor Ramon, WWF Action Zone (10/30/94)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7t6n9_diesel-shawn-michaels-vs-razor-ramo_sport?search_algo=2

Incredible match. Seriously aside from the Rockers/Orient Express tag and possibly Austin/Michaels vs Owen/Davey I don't think there's been a better tag in WWF/E since 1991. Everyone in this match puts in a hell of a shift and ensures a frantic pace with an incredible crowd marking out for everything they do. 

Shawn and Diesel try to jump the faces only for it to backfire with Shawn almost being pinned inside the first minute until Diesel resuces him, and from there they work brief segments revolving around Michaels and Kid getting isolated before Razor becomes the FIP for the majority of the match, though sadly this part of the match is clipped. Michaels and especially Diesel thrive in the control segment including a couple of bossy spots where Michaels halts a potential Razor comeback with a knee to the back from the apron as well as a beautiful hot tag tease where Razor makes a desperate tag only for Diesel to distract the referee and continue the isolation. The long rumoured split between Michaels and Diesel however comes into play once again with Michaels accidentally catching Diesel with SCM and allowing for a really awesome heel in peril segment as Kid and Razor take turns beating the crap out of a defencless Michaels who pleads for Diesel to recover before he loses the match. There's a ton of really convincing nearfalls on Michaels with the crowd continually getting more and more rabid with every kickout. Finish comes when Diesel finally recovers and catches an unsuspecting Kid with a big boot and Michaels hastily makes a frantic cover.

This match is pretty much a staple of why tag team wrestling is so absorbing and scintillating. None of the 4 men are what I'd class as great workers in singles settings, but Michaels is excellent as the bumping machine who's cocky and arrogant when on the attack, Diesel is fucking inspiring as the difference maker in size and power and who constantly keeps Razor on the mat as he's isolated. Razor himself is a really effective and great FIP who really sells every bit of offence he's hit with and Kid really works the apron terrificly and is plenty of fun as the house on fire hot tag exploding with unrivalled offence which Michaels in particular struggles to contain.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AHHHHHHHHH a half an hour Trips promo to kick off Raw , sometimes with input by DA GOAT Flair.. Seriously, I used to mark for that shit while my friends were like "FUCK! ANOTHER HHH PROMO! FUCK RAW!" ... Me and a group of friends used to watch PPVs in 04-07ish (sometimes we still do) and I distinctly remember everybody leaving halfway through the UNF 04 and NYR 05 WHC matches because "It was obvious that the big nosed politicker was going to win again" ..... That's why I'm such a Trips fan, I loved rooting against all of my friends. Wrestlemania XXII was the worst, Hunter kicks out of the FU and I mark out like crazyyyy, knocking out the power cord by accident. When we get the cord plugged back in, Trips is tapping to the STFU... I didn't go to school the next day...


The good ol' days for sure  :vince :hhh :flair2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania 22's end result = :young2

Just watched another match to support my enjoyment of HENRY SWAG. Worked a good 6 minute David vs Goliath bout with Evan Bourne. Henry's domination garnered the fans to really gear up behind Bourne. Which wasn't hard to begin with. He's a face that has always been easy for the WWE audience to gravitate towards. Awesome ending too. Fans get the ending they wanted and was an innovated way for Bourne to go back into the ring. btw, Mark Henry threw a ROUNDHOUSE KICK in this match to destroy poor Evan. It rocked.

Bourne deserves to be mentioned with the other guys who brought their A-Game to ECW in 2009. His string of matches ever since he returned have all been fun - really good.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Rock/Austin WM 15 - ***
Rock/Austin Backlash 99 - ****1/4 

Re-watched these two since I was going through the storyline so might as well watch the match. I'm not a big fan of the WM encounter. It just seemed too out of place and over the place for me, granted that's the typical nature of an AE style brawl but it wasn't really well-done imo. The run ins also effected some of my enjoyment but are logical given the nature of the storyline. 

Both matches were structured similarly and followed a similar formula but Backlash, on the other hand, featured much better brawling and made good, effective use of the no holds barred stipulation which was implemented on HEAT. I liked the brawling they did around the entrance set (specifically the fence), the objects they used and a nice variation of spots they worked around the set. I thought Shane added an interesting dynamic to the match and did a good job as a heel ref. Plus, there's some entertaining spots they work around the announce table with Rock getting on the mic and the epic spot where Rock starts filming the audience and films right into Austin flipping him off and giving him the stunner. Finish was also well booked imo. Definitely a great match and the third best in the Rock/Austin series behind WM 17 and 19.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> None of the 4 men are what I'd class as great workers in singles settings.


If I may ask, why don't you consider Michaels a great worker? I'd personally put him somewhere in my top 10 or so (North American, anyway).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Because that's pretty much the WWE machine working their magic. I won't speak for someone else as to how they feel, but generally most seem to think highly of Shawn simply because of his HOF career.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd say Michaels was only a great singles wrestler from 94-97. I would probably say he was a better tag wrestler, and maybe a top 5 US tag wrestler ever.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd say Michaels was only a great singles wrestler from 94-97. I would probably say he was a better tag wrestler, and maybe a top 5 US tag wrestler ever.


I'd agree that he was a better tag wrestler, but in my view his peak as a singles performer is still in the 98th percentile. If anything, I think there's a lot of very favorable mythologizing of guys who were less ubiquitous than Michaels that hurts his value in these sorts of discussions. 

Just one man's opinion.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Cena/Ryback vs Punk/Ziggler (RAW tonight) - 1/2*

Shit match to be honest. I expected much much more out of this match. They held back way too much. Sad, because it really felt like a sick main event when it was announced. Cena gets dominated in a really boring way, and Ryback just plows through everyone. 1/4 for the actual match, and 1/4 for Ryback pinning Punk.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*ECW 1/20/09*

1) Ricky Ortiz vs Adam Evans ~ DUD


2) Paul Burchill vs The Boogeyman ~ DUD


3) *Fatal Four Way Match*:
Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry vs John Morrison vs Mike Mizanin ~ *​
Ok, this ECW was bad. 

Go home for the Rumble and the opening segment was a short Matt Hardy interview about Jeff being blown up by his pyro. Swagger interrupts and a mini brawl occurs. Then later we'd find out that on Smackdown the real build begins when Hardy pins Swagger in a tag team match to hand him his first pinfall loss in the WWE. So back to ECW and instead of a Hardy vs Swagger tag we get a Ricky Ortiz squash. Which was sad simply because Ortiz was just as unknown as the jobber he defeated. So glad he flopped. Yikes. Next up Paul Burchill complained to Teddy Long and was given The Boogeyman. Nothing says awesome matches like The Boogeyman. Especially when they go less than 2 minutes and ends in a DQ. We're on a roll now. Granted the main event had promise. No doubt. Unfortunately it ended up being a 6 minute random affair. No real structure to it at all. I know Fatal Four Ways can be wild, but guys like make something of it. Easy filler match to build towards the Rumble. (all 4 were in said Rumble) Henry leaves mid match because he realizes it doesn't mean anything. Finlay kills Miz, Morrison knocks Finlay out, and pins his tag team champion partner for the win. End show. Blah.

Lucky for me this would be the worse ECW of the year. So far at least. I'm currently starting June so there was a nice 5 month margin of being an entertaining program. Although with my superb memory for loving these shows, I know the latter part of ECW is when it became REALLY fun with the influx of new talent. Weakest ECW out of the way, the rest is grand.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WARNING: Hundreds and hundreds of words coming up with no attempt at paragraph spacing. I had no intention for it to be this long. It isn't play by play, though; promise.



Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker (WrestleMania 4/5/09)
So I'm not one to really get into arcs or deeper meanings of wrestling matches unless I'm actually enjoying what I'm watching. The Shawn Michaels v Batista stretcher match in 2008 furthers a lot of story and continues feuds, but as a match I think it's rubbish and thus I don't give a shit about any of the story being furthered or any arc being created. This is different. I don't really get as emotionally involved into this kind of stuff as a lot of people, but if I look at it from kayfabe eyes, it helps a lot. This was the 25th WrestleMania, and this was two guys who are known as the two best WrestleMania wrestlers there are. Taker has the streak, and Michaels is "Mr. WrestleMania". Do I actually agree? Maybe or maybe not, but I have to pretend in a case like this. In the Royal Rumble 2000 HHH v Cactus Jack street fight, HHH is presented as the 'technical' wrestler. I don't see him as a technical wrestler at all. But, pretending he is through kayfabe eyes means that the story of him trying to figure a way to win the street fight which Foley excels is made really great. This match here is built as the two greatest wrestlers of the greatest event of the greatest company in wrestling history, and that's a story I can buy. SO, they have a story. Now they have to wrestle a match. How do you start wrestling a match like this? Well, despite the story I just blabbed on about, there's another story to look at - the Undertaker is motherfucking huge and Shawn Michaels is not. So Shawn has to sort of manoeuvre his way around him and find ways to damage him without getting caught himself. I liked how he did it. He kept his strikes simple and effective and didn't stay on him too long or else Taker would chuck him off and probably have control of Shawn and not let go. Michaels' chops don't look very good, but I don't hate them as much as some people seem to and they don't bother me a terrible amount. So Michaels gets around Taker multiple times and after a bit he gets a little cocky and does the crotch-chop and running away, and once Taker gets a hold of him he puts Shawn in the a corner and throw some really good punches at him. And just like I said, Taker had control of him and didn't let go. That was until he made a mistake by creating distance. He went back, ran toward the buckle and Shawn moved. Michaels was spending the openings of the match spacing him out and once Taker tried that he paid for it. Shawn working the leg for a bit was cool. If he can't successfully stay on top by creating space then he can try to chop the motherfucking huge Undertaker down. Taker's selling was really good; he was hitting his leg to get feeling back and wiggled it when picking Michaels up, and I love it when guys do stuff like that. Now I talked about Shawn's chops not bothering me a whole lot.......his crossface and figure four however, suck shit. Dude, stop trying to apply them. You can't. Post-crossface Taker was touching his jaw, which is the kind of standard selling stuff I mentioned earlier I really like. Now to me this match is sort of divided into two parts, and I've always looked at that way. Part two starts when Taker dives. Feels like a total game changer and the match goes from a feeling out process to the big epic that this match has the reputation of. The dive itself is ludicrous. Totally nasty spill where he just landed on his neck/shoulder area. Taker was what, 45 years old here? And around 6'9"? There is no reason for a 6'9" 45 year old to dive like that and take a Psicosis-level bump, but he did and it made a much more even playing field. When Michaels took that crooked moonsault bump (which looked crummier than I thought, but since it was a MISSED bump it doesn't matter), it sort of felt like Taker could have his way with him, but now Taker took a big risk himself and it cost him. Then count-out tease was awesome and Michaels' pleading for the match to be over was much more believable than most of the 2000s Michaels acting I don't like. This "part two" is full of finishers, and some people can have a problem with that, but I don't. It's a big match with two big players on a big stage - what do want them to do? I'm not the "yay nearfalls" type of guy, but as long as it's executed well and they sell their shit properly I don't know why there's much of a problem with it. It creates a great drama when done right and I absolutely think this was done right. Taker had Michaels pinned in each finisher he tried, but Shawn wouldn't stay down. After watching so much 2000s Michaels I got kind of tired of his Superkick-I'm-dead-can't-cover shtick, but after being destroyed by all of Taker's finishers and kicking out, it was more enjoyable and suspenseful here than I can remember. And it was executed way better than I remember it being. Taker's selling was really what made this for me, though. He is so great at stumbling around blurry-eyed trying to stay up, and I think that's sort of tough to pull off credibly when you're built as an unstoppable zombie man. Of course the DDT reversal by Michaels WAS really shitty, though. I try to give it the benefit of the doubt by saying Shawn has eaten so much pain that it affected his game, but still, it shouldn't look that fucking bad. The finish of the match, to me, was a pretty great continuation (or finish, I guess) of what was sort of the theme of the match. A lot of the meat of the match was taking risks with the potential of paying for it, and Michaels went to the top rope to try the moonsault once again. And that moonsault finished him. Overall I don't think this is a classic or an all time great match, but it's a great match. A top ten WrestleMania match and probably the best match either Michaels or Taker had post-90s. And that's good enough for me.



I'll watch XXVI later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I seem the be the only guy who never acknowledges the sloppy DDT counter. Small potatoes in the drama filled finishing stretch. Didn't bother me one bit.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Watched the HBK vs Bret greatest rivalries on Netflix, great stuff. I was interested the whole way, JR did a great job. I was :lmao when Shawn was talking about his "knee injury" and Bret's face was like "yeah, this guy's still a bit of a prick". Seriously Shawn, just come clean about your "injury". Very good otherwise, I'd :mark: for an Austin vs Rock DVD like this. 

Oh, and them both getting really emotional in about the last 20 mins were strong stuff. I didn't know about some of the stuff that was said here also. For example, I didn't know Vince called Bret in the hospital "10 seconds" after his phone got hooked up.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nice thoughts *Yeah1993* re Michaels/Taker. Agreed with your comments on Taker's great selling ability, which as you say is made all the more difficult when you consider the gimmick/character he has to work with.



Moustache said:


> If I may ask, why don't you consider Michaels a great worker? I'd personally put him somewhere in my top 10 or so (North American, anyway).


I'm talking more his 2002-2010 run, seeing as a lot of his first singles run is a blur outside of a few recogniseable matches, but generally I just have issues with his offence, his long term selling and the general layout of a lot of his matches post 2002.

A lot of the matches I used to like no longer hold up, Summerslam 2002, Wrestlemania 19 (that one is all on Michaels, since Jericho puts in one of his best performances), Wrestlemania 21 and Vengeance 05, Michaels/Jericho Unforgiven 08 etc. I've grown to appreciate workers who are more subtle in their craft and really work to not only create stories which dominate the moves in the ring, but also include minor little things which not a lot of other people think/care to do, someone like an Arn Anderson, William Regal or Fit Finlay is definitely better than Michaels in my eyes for this very reason. I don't really care for the played out workover of the back > knip up > finishing stretch sequence in a ton of Michaels matches, and whilst I understand that sort of formula is prevalent with a lot of WWE workers, I don't find him good enough in the workover or selling the match as I do Cena or Mysterio who also have very similar/played out formulas which they rarely deviate from. Shawn's dire acting is also something that really detracts from his matches when he really hams it up, the Unsanctioned Jericho match at Unforgiven 08 springs to mind as far as singles matches go.

Michaels is absolutely amazing in tags though, since it plays to his short term selling strengths and the ability to pull a crowd into his matches, whilst allowing him to tag out to Jannetty and therefore remove the burden of long term selling from the equation as well as keeping his offence to basis bursts rather than dragging it out over 15 minutes. He's at the very minimum a top 10 US guy in tags, hell top 5 really isn't out of the question although I'd have to rewatch the likes of Steamboat, Rhodes, Morton, Eaton, Arn, Tully and others before settling on it.

There are definitely things Michaels can do well, and there are still a few matches post 2002 I'm a big fan of, but at this point his style of working a match and what he'll do inside a ring aren't really what I look for or can get engaged by. I find guys like Mysterio and Cena to be better faces in terms of making me want to watch their matches, and the likes of Regal, Finlay, Arn Anderson, Sgt Slaughter, Bill Dundee, Dick Murdoch and many others are far more interesting characters and performers in the ring to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Upon a lack of sleep I found myself pages back in this thread and stumbled upon Caida's review of the Rock n Roll Express/Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express/Ernie Ladd 6 man and Midnight Express vs Fantastics 4/26/88 matches. Now whenever I get time tomorrow, those are gonna be watched ASAP. Owe it to myself to witness what the rave reviews spoke of.

Plus considering it involves my favorite tag team of all time in both (well, the Eaton/Lane combo moreso) I have to check them out on that basis alone.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> I seem the be the only guy who never acknowledges the sloppy DDT counter. Small potatoes in the drama filled finishing stretch. Didn't bother me one bit.


Desperation move that looked desperate in the middle of high drama. Give me that over a wrestler's "text-booked" yet lifelessly executed moves/match.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Undertaker is seriously a great seller, think my favorite selling of his is either his return at Summerslam 2010 where he's meant to be just out of the VEGETATIVE STATE and he can hardly sit up and he's hobbling and coughing all over the place, still pisses me off that folk thought that was just him being genuinely old and out of shape, although it does show how good that sell job was. I've also got a real appreciation for when Edge cashed in on him, he sits up from the first spear but he does it really slowly and he's wobbling around and is clearly struggling to get up and its GREAT.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Just rewatched Austin/HHH 2/3 Falls

....Does anyone not have this match at at least **** 3/4?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ether said:


> Just rewatched Austin/HHH 2/3 Falls
> 
> ....Does anyone not have this match at at least **** 3/4?



IIRC this thread is VERY split on that match in general, personally I absolutely love it.

It features the GOAT ... Vs :austin ... What could you NOT love ? :hhh


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I would struggle to give the match **** to be honest, it's good but it's not this be all and end all some make it out to be.

Although I'm generally not a fan of Three Stages Of Hell matches in general, normal 2 out of 3 falls are fine but for some reason I've never saw a good Three Stages Of Hell match apart from one Cactus Jack and Eddie Gilbert had back in the early 90s


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think I've shared my thoughts on that match enough times in this thread. The first fall is a mess and they dig themselves into a hole straight after and can't pace/structure the rest of the match and it all gets pretty haphazard and dire. Some admittedly nice spots to convey the hatred in the second fall, but a lot of the spots in the second fall should have been saved for the final fall but because of the wayward first fall they go overboard to compensate for the pedestrian opening and by the last fall the crowd are pretty quiet despite both men getting hit with chairs and barbed wire bats. Think I recall them both selling a lot of things like shit in the final fall, like popping up from chair shots but my memory's fuzzy. The finish is excellent though in progressing Austin's character heading into Wrestlemania 17.

Funnily enough the last time I wrote in depth about the match some guy PM'd me suggesting I never speak of it again. That was rather surreal.

Can't stop staring at Craig's sig btw.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Michaels getting the shit kicked out of him (particularly his back) then knipping up would bother me from time to time, but not enough so that it ruined the match. I still consider him one of the best of all time, even if that means I'm in the minority.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

In fairness that was just the best example sans his facial expressions that I could point to as partial reasons for why I'm not really that high on him anymore. I've just grown to be a bigger fan of rougher/physical wrestlers who also are adept at implementing a story and working their character more than I am Michaels' WWE Main Event wrestling style. Guys like Dustin Rhodes, Stan Hansen, Finlay, Regal, Vader, Rude, Wahoo McDaniel, Eaton, Butch Reed, Dick Murdoch, Bill Dundee and Dutch Mantell are just some of the wrestlers who's more physical work just clicks with me in the way Michaels' style clicks with numerous people.

I can totally see the allure, I'm just not currently one of those drawn to it. His tag work can't be questioned however and I probably will try and examine his 94-97 run at some-point to see if he's got some great performances in him that might make me re-evalute how good he is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I must say HBK's own variation of the "5 moves of doom" can get boring after a while. Flying forearm > kip-up > inverted atomic drop > a couple of punches > body slam > elbow drop > superkick. If only all the brainless Cena haters would also realize this, HBK is someone most respect, so that should surely show them the "Cena only knows 5 moves" argument is invalid and just stupid.

Also to further comment on my advancement through 2005... the Road to Wrestlemania has been awesome, specially Raw which is fire almost every week. And this Undertaker commercial is awesome:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I am a fan of those in the laundry list you posted, as well, but I always felt (particularly in the 90s) that Michaels played a babyface in peril extremely well. His singles performances of note in the 90s: vs Perfect 91, vs Hart SS 92, vs Jannetty 93, Ladder match x2, v Jarrett 95, basically his entire 96 title run, feud with Taker (obviously including the GOAT HIAC).

I also think he played a great cocky heel who could take a ferocious beating (see: HIAC). It's a shame he got injured because I was really enjoying his heel run.

Allocate credit wherever you'd like, but he was pretty damn good back then.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*CM Punk : Best in the World DVD Review*











_Disc 1 : Documentary + Extras_

Not going to take up too much time talking about this because I can't really say much that hasn't already been said. Great, GREAT documentary here as we get something that all of us have been waiting for , for a LONG time : WRESTLING TALK. No bullshit entertainment garbage that only blind sheep/children care about, we get wrestling storyline talk from the indies to the top of the mountain of the biggest Wrestling Company in the world. The insight from Punk and company really gives you a gauge of where Punk was at every time during his career (both professionally and mentally) , and it didn't seem like they were holding much back at all for this one...Compelling stuff. I would have liked to hear better input from guys such as Cena, Trips, and a Vince appearance would have been amazing, but what we got from PUNK was so astoundig that it almost makes up for it.

The second thing that makes this documentary so great is the personal touch. Punk lets us in to his life and basically lets us know that he can be an absolute dick sometimes, which is fine given the circumstances of where he is and what he does for a living. We see into the whole "straight-edge" lifestyle, his relationship with who he perceives to be his family, his real BLOOD family, and the trials and tribulations along with the triumphs he gathered over the course of his now 13 year career. This documentary is one of the most inspirational out there for an individual superstar, as it contains quite an amount of introspective and philosophical material for a WWE release. Check this documentary out for sure, as it's a must watch feature on one of the greatest wrestlers of all time (It's what I believe , damnit) , and PROBABLY the best Superstar documentary that the WWE has ever done. 

*9.5/10*

_Disc 2 : Matches_

vs Brent Albright OVW : *** 3/4*
vs Justin Credible ECW 06 : ****
vs John Morrison ECW 07 : ******
MITB IV (Wrestlemania XXIV) : ***** 1/4*
w/Kofi Kingston vs Priceless Raw 08 : *** 1/2*
vs William Regal Raw 08 : **** 1/2*

This disc was OKAY , but I don't think it was as good as it could have potentially been. First of all, what the hell was up with the inclusion of the OVW match on the disc ? That match was pretty good, but it's kinda fucked with this whole injury angle that the match completely stops for a LONG fucking time. Everything else I believe earns it's place on the DVD for being a significant moment in the career of Punk (he wins a major match in every match on the disc besides the first one). Match of the disc is MITB IV , which just so happens to be one of the best pure spotfests in history and the second best match on the WM XXIV card. The Morrison match happens to be an underrated damn near classic encounter as well that's required viewing. 

*7/10*

_Disc 3 : Matches_

vs Jeff Hardy SS 09 : ******
vs Rey Mysterio OTL 10 : ***** 1/4*
vs John Cena MITB 11 : *******
vs Chris Jericho WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
vs Daniel Bryan OTL 12 : ***** 3/4*

OH. FUCK. YES. Do I even need to describe how amazing this disc is ? AT ALL ? This is easily a top 5-10 disc of matches EVER IMO (up there with the 4th disc of "The Streak" DVD , the 2nd disc of "The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection" DVD, and the 3rd disc of the "Best there is......" DVD), featuring NO matches under **** , that is IN-FUCKING-CREDIBLE. We get an AWESOME TLC match with Jeff Hardy (Hardy's third best singles match ever btw, his best being the Cage match with Punk) , the third best WWE MOTY for 2010 IMO with Rey, one of the greatest matches EVER (MITB 11) , the match of the year for this year (OTL 12) along with the third best WWE championship match in Wrestlemania HISTORY IMO. I know this sounds like an incoherent rambling, but FUCK! This disc features potentially THREE of my top 50 WWE matches ever and is the second best disc of the year (besides the 4th disc of The Streak DVD, which features 2 ***** matches, 1 **** 3/4 matches, and 1 **** 1/2 matches) by far. I'm not giving it the PERFECT score (which I've only given to like 5 discs ever) , but it's DAMN close.

*9.5/10*

_Final Rating_

This DVD is a must buy (if you're a DVD buyer anyways) as two of the three discs are almost PERFECT. The second disc could have used a little more polishing and some better matches, and I wish that they included some classic Punk moments and promos on the first disc (that would have gotten it a 10 IMO). The documentary is a top 3 WWE Doc ever, while the third disc is one of the best modern collection of matches that I have ever seen. LOVE this DVD. I've rambled on far enough, go out and get this shit, or download the entire thing. 

*9/10*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Michaels getting the shit kicked out of him (particularly his back) then knipping up would bother me from time to time, but not enough so that it ruined the match. I still consider him one of the best of all time, even if that means I'm in the minority.


You're definitely not in the minority on that one. I don't call him an all timer (any more), but Michaels isn't a wrestler who has a lack of Best Ever supporters.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished the Raw where Benoit and HHH have their first 2005 match together. Exactly one year after Wrestlemania XX so it was a nice call-back to the greatest Wrestlemania ending of all time. For the match, it was absolutely awesome! Benoit does a great job selling all the hard Irish whips that affect his back and he also looks strong in defeat. The 9 German Suplexes look brutal and the recall of the WM20 ending looked epic with Benoit countering the Pedigree to a Crossface. Although this made the entire 2004 look redundant with all the "HHH HAS YET TO BEAT BENOIT!!" hype, at least it was not a clean job and Benoit was protected as he took a lowblow and had to release the Sharpshooter due to Flair's distraction. There's something about Benoit that makes his opponents motivated to work with him as HHH does a hell of a job here too. ****1/4 from me. Can't believe it's neither on youtube nor dailymotion.

This very same show (14/3) also included an awesome Highlight Reel with Chris Jericho, Randy Orton and JAKE THE SNAKE, a great Edge/Shelton Benjamin match, The Rockers reuniting and a couple of nice backstage segments. Easily best Raw of 2005 so far and maybe the best one I've ever seen. (not gonna talk about the Attitude Era ones since I'm yet to watch them)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I remember that Trip/Benoit being really good. Without thinking too hard it's probably the best Raw match I've seen from 2005. 

S'on dailymotion, btw; http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7t1k0_chris-benoit-vs-triple-h_sport


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah I remember that Trip/Benoit being really good. Without thinking too hard it's probably the best Raw match I've seen from 2005.
> 
> S'on dailymotion, btw; http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7t1k0_chris-benoit-vs-triple-h_sport


I'm yet to see Shelton/HBK, but this and the street fight with HBK/Edge are the matches of 2005 so far into it. Also liked a few others like Orton/Christian, Orton/HHH, Benoit/Batista and Benoit/Jericho.

And I must have missed the dailymotion link. I remember finding it a while back when searching for their Eddie Guerrero tribute match but my recent search an hour ago only gave me the Gold Rush Tournament match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Other than Michaels/Benjamin I don't think I've seen a single of those matches you just mentioned. Yeah, I gotta at least attempt to watch the best Raw 05 stuff sometime.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 you put Trips/Benoit over HBK/Shelton? I'm asking because I don't remember a single thing about Trips/Benoit and if it's that good, I'm gonna check it out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

To be fair I don't like Michaels/Shelton THAT much. Pretty good, but kinda gets less good the more I watch it (and I've probably watched it like 5 times by now). It's just a "fun TV match" to me.

You're a HHH mark yeah? DEFINITELY watch that Benoit match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

While I'm a big fan of the HBK/Shelton match, I think some may overrate it due to the awesome finish. Still a great TV match that I don't get tired of watching.

Gonna check out HHH/Benoit when I get a moment.

edit - this match is already awesome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantell vs Bill Dundee & Buddy Landell, Memphis (3/10/86)*





 




Jesus Christ Dundee was spectacular in this, he put in an Eddie Guerrero 2005 esque character performance 19 years before Eddie mastered it. From the opening bell he's deranged and psychotic and trying to scare Russell before running immediately when he spots Lawler wanting to bloody his injured eye like Dundee did to Lawler in the famous 12/30/85 LLT match between the pair. Dundee also does one of my favourite ever sells off of a punch from Lawler, he just deadweights himself and falls to the floor in such incredibly dramatic fashion like some punk on Knight Rider who's just realised he's hopelessly outmatched against Michael Knight. Why the random Knight Rider reference you ask? FUCK YOU that's why. 

Landell manages to top Dundee selling wise off of a punch combo from Lawler and Mantell and his stumbling, punching air and twisting his head 180 degrees after each punch was just amazing. Dundee casually low blowing Lawler and then turning possessed at the sight of his own blood and consequently choking Lawler with the ringside rope as well as grabbbing the table to smash Lawler's head off of just looked so amazingly psychotic and really had you believing Dundee had lost his mind. Loved the comedy spot where the heels messed up and Dundee hit Landell with a chain. Finish was a bit weak but fit with how pissed off of Lawler and Mantell were and Dundee trying to stop the beatdown of a bloodied Landell before finally saying fuck this and walking out capped off a great psychotic/douchebag performance from Dundee.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't quite remember - is that TDM that there's only clips of? Probably not b/c I think that had Bam Bam Bigelow in it, but that TDM I'm talking about looked to be one of the greatest matches of all time if we had the full match. I don't even remember that match you just posted about, but if it was on the DVDVR Memphis set then I've definitely seen it. 

PS go find the Dundee/Landel promos and segments. They're incredible.



---
About to re-watch Michaels/Taker 2010.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The tag I just watched placed #12 on the DVDVR Memphis ballot. Pretty much a Dundee masterclass with the others just working around his character schtick with some great punches, bumps and a rabid crowd to boot.






Think that's the TDM you were on about. Its from 3/24/86.

Will try and track down those segments, truth be told I'll get the Memphis and Mid South sets in the near future, especially once I separate what I'll need for bloody christmas shopping and what I have left over. Seabs can also expect a payment in the not too distant future for a couple of his latest comps.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts in the morning, no pressure but if you come out of it unimpressed only your uncanny Andre the Giant esque hair will save you


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I feel shitty for not remembering anything about that tag 3/10/86 tag match then. Should probably re-watch it.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Is the new nWo DVD worth a watch?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Just come in to post the same thing as Crimson, anyone given it a watch yet?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the doc last week:



KingCal said:


> Just watched the new NWO doc. Its ok. Only an hour and 3 minutes long though, so while they do touch on most of the things you'd want/expect them to, they really don't go into the detail you'd want them to. Plus some things are of course still missed out (Luger beating Hogan on Nitro for the title and the Horseman feud being the two main ones I can think of). Just a shame they couldn't have Hogan and Bischoff and Hall on it. Footage from the Monday Night Wars and NWO: Back in Black docs are used for them, mostly stuff we've seen, and a couple of bits here and there that was new (aka recorded for those docs but never used). Seeing Russo was certainly something lol. I knew he was in it, but still, Russo on a WWE DVD in 2012. Crazy!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Got my house show later tonight. I shall report on the festivities lol.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Weak effort from WWE on NWO doc. An hour? Really? 

Crap.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Hmmm, may have to give it a miss then really. Definitely a shame.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Crimson 3:16™;12236878 said:


> Is the new nWo DVD worth a watch?



I bought the NWO set last night. I have only watched the Savage matches (yes big mark wanna fight about it?) matches but the documentary is pretty good. It was cool getting Cody Rhodes take on it as an 11-12 year old kid who’s Dad was working for WCW at the time. I was in HS during the NWO days and for you younger folks that shit was soooo over and hot. I was a hardcore WWF kid and I even watched WCW more than WWF for a few months and I couldn’t and can’t stand Hogan or Nash. I can take or leave Hall. Good set though if you are interested in the doc. It could have been much longer though.


----------



## BretJustice (Feb 21, 2009)

Cookie Monster said:


> Hmmm, may have to give it a miss then really. Definitely a shame.


I agree with you their.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Anyone watch the BROCK doc yet?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I think it's kind of hideous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How creative. They just threw pictures of a bunch of wrestlers on the cover. That's the shit I was making in photoshop years ago.

Wonder what the content is gonna be like. Think it was confirmed that there isn't a documentary, right? So likely just a bunch of the same old shitty boring arse segments we've been seeing for the last decade along with matches. Yawn.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I'd be surprised if there's more than a dozen segments we haven't seen before, if that. Thankfully those repeats will be unblurred so it won't be a complete waste of a purchase.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm also looking forward to them featuring stuff that hasn't been released yet. Match-list is something I want to see too. This should be a hot seller either way being released this holiday season.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

The cover is just a mess. Plus it's not dark enough to get that AE tone.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Might post that in the GOAT thread saying Austin is in the middle therefore he is GOAT.

_Fuck that thread_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

GreatOneIV and Sam Knight are total imbeciles. It's unbelievable.

-----------

I WATCHED IT! Not as many words, but just as little care for paragraph spacing!

~

Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
First thing's first - Matt Striker sucks and has no place in a commentary booth. NOW, the story to this is sort of the same as the previous years, but Michaels' career is on the line so that obviously adds a bigger sense of drama. The thing is, I don't think they express drama in this anywhere near as good the XXV match. That said, this is the third I've watch this (and the second in the span of about 9 days), and I've probably "got it" more now than on either previous watch. But I still don't think this is great. This match has an extremely good reputation, and is called the best match ever by some people. So when someone doesn't think it's great, it kind of looks like they don't like it. I do like it, and it's a good match, but I don't see much more than that. The opening I like a lot. They've both had their big Mania match already, and this time Shawn's career is on the line, so he's going to mock Taker's cut-throat and when Taker gets mad, Shawn'll get on him and attack. Still, Taker's the bigger, badder ('badder' isn't a word but IDC fuck off) guy. So Shawn moves to the leg which Taker crippled himself after the Old School Rope...Thingy, and he does a pretty good job, but it doesn't captivate me. But I will say this - after 25 years Michaels FINALLY learnt how to put on the figure-four. Goddamn, Shawn, put their crossed leg over their straight one. Anyway, what draws me into all of the leg stuff is Taker's selling (surprise); even after Shawn had stopped the leg work, Taker was trying to get feeling back into it and wobbling around and falling over after big moves. I liked him sort of sacrificing his own leg to avoid the elbow drop as well. Then he goes for another potentially ridiculous dive until Shawn runs in and sweeps the leg, which was cool. I said this match sort of lacked the execution of drama that XXV had, and the tombstone to the floor (which was pretty cool), sort of gives off that vibe. In 2009 Taker's dive felt like a game-changer, Michaels' initial tombstone kick-out felt like a game-changer. This didn't really have that same feeling. I can't explain why. Again - there's nothing wrong with it and it's 'good', but I don't feel 'great'. I still dug it. What I didn't dig was that weird Last Ride counter. The commentators were deciding whether it was Taker's leg blowing out or Michaels countering it, but IDK, looked awkward and it shouldn't take me five watches to get what it is. Probably not as shitty as the XXV DDT, I'll admit. Now - the moonsault. I still don't feel about his moonsault what I felt about the biggest stuff at WM XXV, but it's definitely the biggest spot of the match. I hate set-ups where there's a superkick and the opponent conveniently lands on a certain area, but I can get past it. The moonsault itself was pretty great and whether he aimed for the knee or not is irrelevant - he landed on that motherfucking knee. And what else I really liked is, when he got Taker in the ring, he didn't bother to continue to work on it, he went straight for the superkick instead. I said Taker's dive starts part 2 of the XXV match, and Michaels' moonsault sort of starts part 2 of this match. Only part 2 here is much shorter. After Taker kicks of the superkick, Michaels kicks out of a tombstone and Taker goes to the cut-throat signal to finish. But he stops and Shawn grabs Taker's clothes to pull himself up. I said yesterday (or whenever) that I didn't find Shawn's acting as hammy as usual, and I kind of jinxed myself. I mean it wasn't THAT bad at all, but I didn't really like it that much either. The jumping tombstone was cool but it wasn't a mind-blowing thing for me like it is a lot of people. SO.......yeah. This is a good match, I've always thought it was a good match, but it has an "All Time Classic" following that I don't even come close to agreeing with. I don't think XXV is a classic either, but that one I'd actually say is great; this on is not a great match. There isn't anything specifically wrong with it, but it doesn't do "HOLY SHIT THIS IS MOTHERFUCKING AWWWWWESOME!!!!!!" for me. I don't think I'll ever see it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Undertaker's performance in that match is magnificent. It may be my favorite single performance from him ever. I love how he sold the leg injury and the frustration after Michaels kicked out of the Tombstone, how Michaels used finishers from his past Mania opponents, and the actual finish is perfect.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Can't say I've ever associated the Attitude Era with The Beatles before, but I like it. Sgt. Pepper's LHCB is a GOAT cover. 

Even if this is the millionth time that cover has been re-created.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Are the matches worth checking out on The John Cena experience?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Duke Droese said:


> Can't say I've ever associated the Attitude Era with The Beatles before, but I like it. Sgt. Pepper's LHCB is a GOAT cover.
> 
> Even if this is the millionth time that cover has been re-created.


Makes me want to purchase the DVD more than I would've with a different cover tbh. :side:

ATITTUDE ERA = GOAT AND SO ARE THE BEATLES


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Is the scratch logo on the AE DVD going to be uncensored?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs, Stretcher Match, Memphis (5/2/83)*






Incredible brawl which examplifies what the Memphis style is all about. Unlike the WWE version of this match the aim here is to incapacitate your opponent to the point where it becomes obvious he requires a stretcher to leave the arena. It goes around 10 minutes but they just beat the piss out of each other with some tremendous looking punches, a ton of great bumping and selling from the Moondogs in particular, a really fun and engaging Stane Lane FIP spell when he gets cut from the Moondogs assault and a great hot tag to Keirn which eventually leads to a terrific finish.

Match is just punching and kicking but when you have guys as good as these are at brawling that's all you need to work a compelling match that both advances the feud and keeps the crowd entertained. Both teams get over the hatred with little touches in the brawling, such as both teams biting the cut of their opponents and spitting the blood in the air for extra measure. In 10 minutes they get across the sense of hatred and chaotic brawling better than most 20 minute hardcore matches can hope to accomplish, namely because the actual brawling is so great they're not relying on a bunch of props to get over the feud. Finish comes when Keirn gets distracted by Jimmy Hart and gets hung in between the top and middle rope, and eventually when Lane's attempts to free him prove unsuccessful the match is ended with Lane and the ref concerned Keirn needs medical assistance. Post match drama with Lane fighting the Moondogs off long enough to desperately free his partner from grave harm and then having to defend his lifeless body on the floor with a steel chair as both Moondogs circle him was amazing and developed the feud in such remarkable fashion. Definitely lived up to the hype this match has.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fabs v Moondogs is one of the best feuds ever that no one talks about. Stan Lane is an ENORMOUSLY underrated wrestler. The Moondogs fucking rule and I wish more than anything that all of the Moondogs v Jarrett/Lawler matches from 92 were available in full. The one (two?) that IS in full is awesome.



Clique said:


> Undertaker's performance in that match is magnificent. It may be my favorite single performance from him ever. I love how he sold the leg injury and the frustration after Michaels kicked out of the Tombstone, how Michaels used finishers from his past Mania opponents, and the actual finish is perfect.


I've always really liked Taker's selling through his whole career and whoever spouts "he no sells b/c he's a zombie" is wrong, but starting around 2006 he just decided to become this borderline world class seller. Michaels matches were no exception.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah, Dolph/Cena from the house show tonight was nothing special. In fact, not one match was anything worth talking about. Punk/Ryback was just OK and ended in a mass roster brawl. MOTN I'd give to Hell No/Rhodes Scholars based purely on the fact that it was a lot of fun. Everything else was pretty missable. Dolph/Cena had an excellent last 5 minutes with a lot of false finished but for the majority of the match they did fuck all else and were obviously holding back. For what, I don't know but I doubt they were going at this full power. 

I guess that's it really lol. Nothing to report unfortunately.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Fabs v Moondogs is one of the best feuds ever that no one talks about. Stan Lane is an ENORMOUSLY underrated wrestler. The Moondogs fucking rule and I wish more than anything that all of the Moondogs v Jarrett/Lawler matches from 92 were available in full. The one (two?) that IS in full is awesome.


Oh man, I'm definitely going to hunt for that match. Sounds awesome.

Yeah Lane always delivers, nice to see him work face when generally I'd associate him as a great heel in the Midnight Express. I hear his karate schtick can be generally divisive but it doesn't bother me that much. Think I just associate some more gimmicky aspects of wrestling to be prominent in the 80s and stuff like that doesn't irk me, same as when Steamboat busts out his karate offence. Both have enough attributes for the schtick to not matter too much. Plus for every poor kick Lane will land the odd beauty, thought he had a couple of decent kicks in the Moondogs match when he was building to the hot tag.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lawler/Jarrett v Moondogs: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1iqyVA9sfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtXOY9CjZkM&feature=channel


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Snicker* at that Attitude Era cover, would it have been so much work to make something a bit more classier.


----------



## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

TV14 with no logo blurring, censoring and over 8 hours of footage! November 20th! 












> This three-disc DVD and two-disc Blu-Ray is scheduled for release on Nov. 20. The synopsis reads: "In the late-90s, WWE was struggling for ratings survival while a cultural shift in the viewing audience’s taste was occurring. “Saying your prayers and taking your vitamins” had lost its luster amongst the rebellious masses who preferred “flipping the bird” and “laying the smackdown”… Enter Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H and Mankind and the notorious crop of edge and fearless Superstars who ushered in The Attitude Era. Now in this 3DVD set fans can own all the infamous moments from this controversial and revolutionary era that redefined sports entertainment for an entire generation. Over 8-hours of envelope-pushing content includes all the agression, antics and innuendos that proved to be the perfect cocktail for an explosion of popularity."
> Read more at http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe..._Superstars_Featured.html#J8DWZTVGZtwPboyp.99


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Are the matches worth checking out on The John Cena experience?


I wouldn't buy it but Cena/Lashley GAB 07, Cena/Hunter NOC 08, and Cena/Hunter/Shawn SSeries 09 are worth checking out. I haven't watched Orton/Cena SSlam 07 in years so I'll have to re-watch that myself. 



Arm-Bar1004 said:


> Is the scratch logo on the AE DVD going to be uncensored?


I would assume it will be since they no longer blur the logo or censor the letters WWF in the Classics On Demand programing. That reminds me, I recently re-watched Rock vs. Austin from the night after Survivor Series '98 and man is the crowd insanely HOT in this entertaining TV brawl. I wouldn't mind if that made the set, or the match they had on the go home Raw for WM14 that year too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Overrated/Underrated : Survivor Series*

This is a concept that I employ through various projects, where I basically take all the matches of a given subject and give 3 matches that I feel are overrated, as well as 3 matches that I think are underrated. Since we're in that Survivor Series kind of year, I thought that we should go and take a look at three overrated/three underrated : Survivor Series Edition. (Note : Unlike all of my other lists/projects, I haven't rewatched every single match I'm about to list and they are COMPLETELY based off of previous watchings and subsequent ratings, but I digress.... LET IT BEGIN!)


*3 Underrated*

3. Triple H vs Steve Austin : Survivor Series 2000

YEAH I know, "Trips mark being a homer again" , but honestly this match wasn't that bad, and it gets more shit than ANY main event match I've ever seen due to it's ending. Yeah, the ending was stupid I get it, but for somebody to point at this match and say "DURRR, DUMB" but love the 3SOH match and give it ***** is kind of hypocritical. This is a messy , 99-esque brawl that takes place a year ahead of it's time, but at the same time, it's extremely entertaining for what it's worth. I'd be willing to throw ***** at it for sure.

2. Shelton Benjamin vs Christian : Survivor Series 2004

This match doesn't get thrown into the mix when we hear "best of 2004" , but I felt it was just a great fucking match between a guy in the midst of his breakout when he was just consistently GREAT in the ring (Benjamin) and a guy who should have gotten more credit for his brilliant character at this point. This was pacing 101, as these two went out there and never missed a beat in one of my favorite Survivor Series's ever ; 2004. Willing to throw a whole ****** at it, a distinction that not alot of lower card E' matches get.. SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE OPENER.

1. The Undertaker vs Vince Mcmahon (Buried Alive) : Survivor Series 2003

YEAH YEAH YEAH I know, everybody probably hates this pick. I'm just going to go out on record and say this ; I dare you to go watch all the pre match interviews, with the intensity delivered by Taker claiming that he was basically going to KILL Vince. You really get a sense that Vince is PAYING for his crimes throughout the match, as both of these guys make the story they are attempting to convey shine. The Bladejob and the ending only put the icing on this SEVERELY underrated cake. **** 1/4-*** 1/2* from me honestly. This is fucking great DAMNIT.


*Three Overrated*

3. Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels : Survivor Series 1992

Let me just start off by saying that I don't think this match is bad AT ALL, and as a matter of fact I think this match is pretty damn great and would place it at **** 1/2*. I've seen it so many times now that in dissecting it, I can tell you that IT IS NOT A CLASSIC. There are far too many early match holds and such which amount to absolutely nothing in the grand scope of the match, which really saddens me because you have these two great workers and the best match you can get out of them has a screwy ending 5 years later. I've seen MANY individuals give this **** 1/2 , which is just criminal and exactly the reason why I list it here.

2. The Undertaker vs Hulk Hogan : Survivor Series 1991

To give this match a ** 1/2 like most people would be doing it too much justice. This is FAR less than what Taker and Hogan are normally capable of, but this was essentially just a basic match. That's about it, sure it has historical significance, but that doesn't make it great at all. Really slow, plodding action that had me uninterested everytime (which is weird because I'm actually a BIG fan of their JD 02 match). Hell, I even like the TTIT rematch more, and that's saying something. Would throw out a ** 1/2* for this and nothing more.

1. The Rock vs Mankind : Survivor Series 1998

Top 10 Mick Foley Matches. Top 10 Matches in Survivor Series History. Top 10 Rock Matches. Those are a few of the lists that featured this particular match on it, but you see there's one huge problem with that.... THIS MATCH IS BAD. Rock marks love to jizz to this match all the time, but honestly the structure is terrible, it's a poor man's russo-esque WM IV main event match on one of the worst PPV's ever during one of the worst times for match ratings in company history. The match is sloppy, uninspired, and just plain BAD. ** 3/4* from me, just awful.


*Personal Favorite SS Match Ever* : Team Raw vs Team Smackdown (Survivor Series 2005) / Triple H vs Ric Flair (Survivor Series 2005)

*Personal Favorite SS Event Ever* : 2005 or 1996

*Least Favorite SS Match Ever* : Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (Survivor Series 2010)

*Least Favorite SS Event Ever* : 1998


*Personal Opinions ?*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think the Taker/Hogan and Rock/Mankind matches are highly significant WWF Title matches in the history of Survivor Series which is probably why they get the attention they receive after all of these years. I agree neither is an all time quality worked match but if we are talking history they should be mentioned.

As for favorite Survivor Series event overall, my favorite is 2002. I loved the card from top to bottom. The 1st ever Elimination Chamber is one of the most anticipated matches for me at the time. I was literally shaking with excitement when as the time came closer to the match starting. Love the video package of the main event, Triple H gave one of his best promos ever imo, the match lived up to the hype, and Shawn Michaels one the World Title for the final time in his career. Not to mention the show took place at Madison Square Garden and the atmosphere all night was awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

96 was pretty awesome due to MSG crowd, Austin/Hart, and HBK/Sid.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^agreed

My Top 10 Favorite Survivor Series Matches are:

Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (1996) 
Diesel vs. Bret Hart (1995)
Team WWF vs. WCW/ECW Alliance (2001)
Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels (2007) 
Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund (1994) 
Elimination Chamber (2002)
Batista vs. Undertaker (2007) 
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (2009) 
Randy Savage & Mr. Perfect vs. Ric Flair & Razor Ramon (1992)
Triple H vs. Ric Flair (2005)


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

nWo documentary was great. Some typical WWE BS like Striker pretending that the Wolfpack was a place for all the real nWo's "rejects", when in fact, all the members were huge stars and left the original nWo on their own as part of the storyline. Also saying that the Wolfpack was the start of the downfall was ridiculous as in 1998 WCW had the most profitable year ever in the history of wrestling with Nash(Wolfpack)/Goldberg/Sting as Top babyfaces for the entire year, along with 30k stadiums with sea of Red and Black colors everywhere as Top sellers most of the year. But overall they did a great job presenting the astronomical impact the nWo had when it started the biggest boom ever. The nWo were so successful and fun to watch because they were a gang of brothers just having fun on TV every week. They lived that life every day, with the limos, the cigars, the money/fame. 

You will never see a more natural act than The Outsiders because it wasn't an act, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were the same characters in real life, with the sarcastic attitude, the charisma, the swagger and all they had to do was promote it on TV. Nash mentioned it when he talked about the awesome nWo black and white skits they did to sell merchandise, how he wanted to stay away from a typical rasslin' character and story. All the creative locations they filmed from to get a more realistic environment like airports, parking lots, production etc. Bischoff was a pioneer in that aspect like he was for a lot of things, so good to see him get some of the credit he deserves. Good summary on all the mainstream personalities they attracted, wearing nWo shirts and coming to Nitro to be a part of it. They should have done more on Hogan, Hall and Nash in their Hollywood and media tours they had around that time. The most amazing thing is watching ESPN after Lebron James moved to Miami and seeing them comparing it to Hollywood Hogan's heel turn forming the nWo after *15 years*, says it all. Cody Rhodes gave a good perspective from someone who was a regular viewer at that time, saying how the nWo made it cool to be a fan, how school was filled with nWo shirts, people saying their catchphrases, doing their hand gestures etc. I liked that most of the people were from that era. New footage from Bischoff, Hall and Hogan would have been good but at least they showed new parts of their 2002 interview. Great to see Nash and Luger there and I hope that they would be there for future DVDs, including a DVD for Nash or The Outsiders. Weird to see Russo on a WWE program, he needs to be on the new Attitude Era DVD. Still hope to see Scott gets better one day so I can see him as the mega charismatic, cool figure, talented performer Bad Guy at least one more time. Watching all these memories, makes me want to see him overcomes all the BS even more.

Too short for the entire period, they could have done much more like showing their mainstream tours, more in depth on the feuds between like Savage/DDP, Wolfpack/Horseman etc, and unique style of their TV program, more backstage segments and stories, off-air footage etc. But for the hour, it was a great doc on the greatest stable of all time. That was an awesome time, for them and for the industry in general.



























Rock/Mankind SVS 1998 - ****. SVS 1998 was a tremendous PPV with plenty of great matches and is probably the best booked event in wrestling history, masterpiece creativity. I will put it first with 2001 as a close second.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Starbuck, where was the house show?

Yeah, I watched that ep of RAW the other night of Austin Vs Rock after SVS 1998. My god was the crowd fucking hot for it. 

They knew they were on to something with them both after that. Funny enough, that was the very first wrestling/RAW show I ever watched.

Jim Ross's heel turn in early 1999 is so damn funny. It just didn't work. "WHERE ARE THE GIRLS" :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

When is the Attitude Era dvd coming out? I didn't see it on the list of scheduled releases for 2013 unless I missed it. 

Also what unreleased (on comps anyway) matches do you want to see on the Attitude Era set? 

The cover is pretty bad. It should just be Trish.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> When is the Attitude Era dvd coming out? I didn't see it on the list of scheduled releases for 2013 unless I missed it.
> 
> Also what unreleased (on comps anyway) matches do you want to see on the Attitude Era set?
> 
> The cover is pretty bad. It should just be Trish.


November 20th


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> When is the Attitude Era dvd coming out? I didn't see it on the list of scheduled releases for 2013 unless I missed it.
> 
> Also what unreleased (on comps anyway) matches do you want to see on the Attitude Era set?
> 
> The cover is pretty bad. It should just be Trish.


Thanksgiving/Black Friday week. 

I've been re-watching Raw from 1998 all this year on WWE Classics On Demand (currently in Nov.) and some of the matches from that year I would like to see some (not all of course) make the set:

Steve Austin/Owen Hart/Cactus Jack/Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H/The New Age Outlaws/Savio Vega - No Way Out Of Texas 1998

Steve Austin vs. The Rock - Raw 3/23/1998

The New Age Outlaws vs. Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie (Cage Match) - Raw 3/30/1998

Steve Austin vs. Triple H - Mayhem In Manchester 1998

Kane vs. Undertaker - Raw 6/1/1998

The Rock vs. Vader - Raw 6/15/1998

Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane - Raw 7/6/1998

Kane & Mankind vs. The New Age Outlaws - Raw 7/13/1998

Kane & Mankind vs. Undertaker & Steve Austin – Fully Loaded 1998

Kane & Mankind vs. Undertaker & Steve Austin vs. The Rock & Owen Hart vs. The New Age Outlaws – Raw 8/10/1998

DX vs. Nation Of Domination (Street Fight) – Raw 8/17/1998

Undertaker vs. The Rock – Raw 10/5/1998

The Rock & Steve Austin vs. Undertaker & Kane – Raw 10/12/1998

The Rock vs. Steve Austin – Raw 11/16/1998

The Rock vs. X-Pac - Raw 11/23/1998



A few things I'd like to see from 1999:

The Rock vs. Mankind (Empty Arena Match) – Halftime Heat 1999

Steve Austin vs. Undertaker – Raw 6/28/1999

The Rock vs. Triple H (Cage Match) – Rebellion 1999


Really want HHH vs. Jericho LMS from Fully Loaded 2000 to make the set as well. Maybe Angle vs. Rock from No Mercy 2000 too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ether said:


> Just rewatched Austin/HHH 2/3 Falls
> 
> ....Does anyone not have this match at at least **** 3/4?


I give it ***3/4. Just not a fan of it as most people. Gonna get shot for saying this but I much prefer HBK/HHH Armageddon '03 over it.


----------



## OldschoolHero (Sep 1, 2008)

Talking about Survivor Series, I was a huge fan of Survivor Series 2004. I decided not to order live on pay per view and I still kinda regret it to this day. Top to bottom a damn good show. Booker T vs Jbl was a great match and I loved the main event.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Segunda Caida said:


> Malenko is awful unless he's working sub 10 minute mat contests with Norman Smiley or La Parka. Minute the match gets past 10 minutes and he has to make his submissions part of a story to develop a flow/story in the match is when it all goes to shreads. I can't tell you how many matches of his I watched for the WCW poll and how good they could have been if he'd have strung a half interesting and compelling control segment.
> 
> The aforementioned Smiley match fucking rules though, and its on youtube.


Yay, there's someone else out there who thinks Malenko sucks. Malenko is your typical bland, boring and completely devoid of a personality wrestler. He makes excuses for his lacking of being interest by trying to sell himself as some technical god in the ring. What I'm saying is that the guy just done a bunch of submissions that have no impact on the match or even tell a story.

Here's another guy you guys can give me shit for, Lance Storm. He fucking sucks. There I said it. Why does he suck? See Malenko. Another boring ass wrestling trying to make up for his boring-ness by trying to impress with his knowledge of holds. If only he knew how to properly work a match and make those holds have meaning.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

OldschoolHero said:


> Talking about Survivor Series, I was a huge fan of Survivor Series 2004. I decided not to order live on pay per view and I still kinda regret it to this day. Top to bottom a damn good show. Booker T vs Jbl was a great match and I loved the main event.


Christian/Shelton and Taker/Heidenreich are underrated too. Really good matches that added to the card. The latter was surprisingly good I thought.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ahhhh Survivor Series 2004 , such fond memories as a Trips mark , wanting to see him control Raw was an anticipation I'll never forget (although it never actually happened )  . The main event was fucking awesome , and I'd put it in the upper echelon of traditional SS matches, probably 5th best or so. Benjamin-Christian is one of the best IC title PPV matches in a very long time (though not as impressive as Jericho-Benjamin from BL 05 of course ) , while Taker-Heidenreich was WAY better than it ever should have been. LOVE Booker-JBL even though its not a really good match per se. Survivor Series 2005 is a different story altogether, as its one of my all time favorites. We got the crazily overbooked but fun Cena-Angle, a great booker-Benoit opener, an all time classic LMS match between H' and Flair, a kick ass Divas match between Trish and Melina, and my all time favorite traditional SS match for the main event. Loved the ending with taker as well, as I was anticipating his return all night. I remember hoping he would come back wearing the purple gloves, what the fuck was I thinking ? Ahahahahaha hahahaha (this is paragraphless because I don't know how to split paragraphs on my iPhone during a long drive )


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

From the Survivor Series that I've seen, 2003, 2004 and 2005 are all pretty good. Can't wait till I reach the Benoit tribute show so I can go back to SVS 1996 and continue until 2002. Others I've seen are 2010 and of course, 2011. 10 it's been a while but I don't remember anything special and 2011 was all about the surprisingly entertaining Show/Henry match and the main event tag match. Out of all of these, 2005 is by far the best. Remove the pointless Bischoff/T-Long match and the card is pretty much perfect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2002 is my absolute favourite Survivor Series event. Fun 6 man tables match with the return of the Dudley Boys. Kidman/Noble is a solid CW match. Victoria/Trish is a pretty damn good hardcore match. Show/Lesnar is great for the time it gets. Lesnar was impressive as fuck and we get the then typical SS screw job (seriously, this happened EVERY SS for christ knows how many years after 97 lol). Triple Tag Team Title match is awesome. Elimination Chamber, while I don't hold it in such high regard these days is still great and one of the best ones. HBK winning was a great moment. Oh, and Scott fucking Steiner showed up. Whole show is right up there with SummerSlam 2002 as an all round awesome show and super fun.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Rock316AE*, here's Rock vs. Vader if you want to watch it. I think it would be pretty cool to add a TV match like this or the Rock/Austin Raw matches to the Attitude Era set.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Survivor Series 2003 and Survivor Series 2005 are two of my favorites:

2003 had the RAW Survivor Series match (****1/2+) one of my all time favorite SS matches, if not my favorite.

2005 because I was there live, but that not withstanding the Smackdown vs. RAW SS match (***3/4) that had one of my favorite match buildups of all time. Add in Triple H/Flair Last Man Standing (****1/4) too.

Looking back I can't believe that they didn't run with a Randy Orton Survivor Series streak to parallel Undertaker's WM Streak. Orton was 3-0 consecutively as a Survivor Series Survivor and I thought that they were going to run with that at the time.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

They actually have a Survivor Series streak going with Cena, designed or not. He is currently 7-0. Something has to give at this year's event between Cena's win record and Punk's Title reign. I don't see Ryback taking a pin fall to slow his momentum.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I actually didn't know that and now that I do I don't think Cena's record is intended lol.

As far as I am concerned either Cena or Ryback is going over, especially with the last minute change to make the match unless it ends in a dirty finish (which technically isn't possible considering Triple Threat matches are no DQ but this is WWE).

As far as the actual streak relation I was actually referring to Orton's Survivor Series Matches not his matches in general at Survivor Series lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Woah woah woah, Cena is undefeated at SVS? But wait, last year... he uh... oh yeah, he teamed with that movie guy and won. But what about the year bef... oh right, he didn't wrestle, he was fired for a night (if even that). 2009 though I know for sure he, uh, oh yeah he beat HBK and HHH. 2008 he fought Chris Jericho... that's like an instant win for Cena there. 2007 he was injured. 2006... fuck if I remember, think he won in a traditional SVS tag match. 2005 I know he beat Angle. 2003 and 2004 he won in the SVS elimination matches. 

Well fuck me, he is undefeated at SVS. And since I'm certain Punk is losing the strap and Ryback I can't see winning it yet (especially since he didn't win it at HIAC), it seems like Cena will continue the undefeated streak this year as well. I'm certain it's unintentional though, much like Taker's for the first several victories.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Clique said:


> *Rock316AE*, here's Rock vs. Vader if you want to watch it. I think it would be pretty cool to add a TV match like this or the Rock/Austin Raw matches to the Attitude Era set.


Thanks. Rock wrestled pretty much the entire roster from mid carders to main eventers in 97-99 but I completely forgot that he had any interaction with Vader during that time. Cool TV match. I also agree with the Rock/Taker October 1998 match which was probably their second best match together. There's also a great Rock/X-Pac/HHH 3 way from around June-July 1998. If they want to go with random interactions of big names, they can add matches like Rock/Edge from mid 99, match was short but that's something I don't think many people remember and with the star Edge became since then, I'm sure a lot of people would love to see it.

Big potential for the AE set, especially the documentary if they go with the honest story and after I saw Russo in the nWo doc, he should be a big part of that. They probably filmed with Rock/Austin/Vince/Foley/HHH/Jericho etc when they did their sets. Off-air footage would be great, around the January-March 1999 period they were closing almost every show with Rock/Austin/Mankind doing comedy in the ring, drinking beer etc. That's something they should release from their archives. Should have happened a long time ago, along with plenty of these segments.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

This probably should have another volume there is potential for so much. Depending on how it sells which I will predict it sells pretty well this holiday season there will be more productions created.

The Rock/Taker match from 1998 is a good TV main event as are the matches Rock wrestled with Austin in March and in November that year. Good mention of that three way too. 

I would love to see rare segments like the ones you mentioned but also the rare matches such as the UK PPV matches I mentioned earlier like Austin/HHH from Mayhem in Manchester in '98 (I'd say their best non-gimmick match) or Rock/HHH Cage Match from the Rebellion PPV in '99. I also remember Austin defending the WWF Title in a 4-way against Taker, Kane, and Mankind at a Capital Carnage PPV in '98. After the match was funny as hell with Hebner fighting the stooges!


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

The Sandrone said:


> Woah woah woah, Cena is undefeated at SVS? But wait, last year... he uh... oh yeah, he teamed with that movie guy and won. But what about the year bef... oh right, he didn't wrestle, he was fired for a night (if even that). 2009 though I know for sure he, uh, oh yeah he beat HBK and HHH. 2008 he fought Chris Jericho... that's like an instant win for Cena there. 2007 he was injured. 2006... fuck if I remember, think he won in a traditional SVS tag match. 2005 I know he beat Angle. 2003 and 2004 he won in the SVS elimination matches.
> 
> Well fuck me, he is undefeated at SVS. And since I'm certain Punk is losing the strap and Ryback I can't see winning it yet (especially since he didn't win it at HIAC), it seems like Cena will continue the undefeated streak this year as well. I'm certain it's unintentional though, much like Taker's for the first several victories.


If he didn't drop the belt at HIAC he's not dropping it at SVS in this throw together match. Vince even said that the only reason Ryback didn't win the belt was because he felt Punk's reign is more important.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When did Undertaker vs Heidenreich from Survivor Series 2004 become good? Figured it was only my brother was the only one who thought it was watchable. Shelton vs Christian is good though. MOTN imo.

Survivor Series 2002 ftw. :mark: That PPV is too, too much fun. RNN update cutting off what was to be an inspirational Shawn Michaels promo = GREAT


*Hell in a Cell 2009*


1) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Hell in a Cell Match*:
CM Punk(c) vs The Undertaker ~ **3/4


2) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*:
John Morrison(c) vs Dolph Ziggler ~ ***1/2


3) *WWE Divas Championship*:
Mickie James(c) vs Alicia Fox ~ 1/2*


4) *WWE Unifed Tag Team Championship*:
Chris Jericho & Big Show(c) vs Batista & Rey Mysterio ~ ***3/4


5) *WWE Championship* - *Hell in a Cell Match*:
John Cena(c) vs Randy Orton ~ **1/2


6) Drew McIntyre vs R-Truth ~ 1/4*


7) *WWE United States Championship* - *Triple Threat Match*:
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Mike Mizanin vs Jack Swagger ~ *1/2


8) *Hell in a Cell Match*:
Shawn Michaels & Triple H vs Cody Rhodes & Ted Dibiase Jr ~ **1/4​
Said I'd get on this PPV soon and boosh. Done. I like it. I know it seems to be a polarizing event. Either you like it or you don't. I'm in the like grouping. I'm still not crazy with the layout of the event. Better wording would say the order of the matches. Nonetheless, that's neither here nor there as the event is long behind us now. 

~ Two best matches the first time around remained the the best matches on this go. Hell in a Cell's all worked for the majority. They weren't anything near the best bunch of Cells, but watchable/solid is their range.

~ Taker vs Punk really was the best of the 3. Only flaw it had was it lacked time. Easy to see with about 5 more minutes it would have inched its way into the 3 star territory.

~ Orton vs Cena is a match I still don't find to be awful. Not gonna lie, the middle segment did lose my interest for a bit. Other than that, I'm cool with it. Fail to see how the finish is supposedly botched too. He punts him and wins. That's bad? He's done that before. 

~ DX vs Legacy was loads better this go around. _(yes, **1/4 is an improvement from where I used to think of it)_ Still don't like the way it ends. DX comes back too swiftly. Legacy DESTROYED Shawn for nearly 14 minutes. As soon as H gets that cell open, done. Less than 5 minutes Legacy goes down. Meh. Would have much preferred a hot tag sort of situation with H, Legacy gaining the momentum back, then the eventual DX comeback to win. H enters the ring and Shawn is magically energized again to take them down. Not for me.

JeriShow showed their worth on this event by stealing the show. That title run was superb.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

^ I hold Punk/Taker in a similar vein as Cena/Lesnar. Good match, terrible booking. Taker really shouldn't of went over it killed Smackdown so bad that it never recovered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I can't say I agree with all of that. Especially about BROCK vs Cena being booked wrong. Match was just about flawless. Cena winning doesn't make the booking terrible. Sorry.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Clique said:


> This probably should have another volume there is potential for so much. Depending on how it sells which I will predict it sells pretty well this holiday season there will be more productions created.
> 
> The Rock/Taker match from 1998 is a good TV main event as are the matches Rock wrestled with Austin in March and in November that year. Good mention of that three way too.
> 
> I would love to see rare segments like the ones you mentioned but also the rare matches such as the UK PPV matches I mentioned earlier like Austin/HHH from Mayhem in Manchester in '98 (I'd say their best non-gimmick match) or Rock/HHH Cage Match from the Rebellion PPV in '99. I also remember Austin defending the WWF Title in a 4-way against Taker, Kane, and Mankind at a Capital Carnage PPV in '98. After the match was funny as hell with Hebner fighting the stooges!


With the talk about doing volume 2 for the Nitro DVD(It was a big success, usually all the WCW concepts are selling well), I can see them doing something like that with the AE. Maybe a series.

I don't remember Austin/HHH(which is a perfect choice for these DVDs because most of the memorable matches are already on the Individual). Rock/HHH in a cage was an awesome match. The cage match they had on RAW in July always got the promotion but I thought that the Rebellion match was a league above it. IIRC Angle and Austin defended the title in a 4 way on the December UK PPVs in 1998 and 2000. A few weeks ago I watched some segments from Superstars in 1999, they had a segment there with Rock and Austin in the Emmys doing comedy on stage. That's usually the selling point for me on their DVDs and would be great if they can get things like that from their archives. Especially now when they don't need to blur half the screen with the WWF logo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just got finished with disc one of the BORK DVD , and now I've just started watching the matches. Despite his short tenure, I'd say that Lesnar is in my top 5 favorite performers ever, and is my pick for perhaps the most unique and entrancing presence in the history of wrestling. The dude is just a straight up BEAST , and how he was able to grasp in-ring psychology so quickly despite very little BIG time experience (well NONE) prior to WWE I'll never know....

Just made a list of every single televised BORK match ever. Going to watch this DVD first, and whenever I'm not watching a disc, my main priority is to do a fully fledged BORK project (complete with his matches from OVW and Japan  ) where I basically try and prove this claim of mine that he has done the most with the least amount of time (talking WORK wise) ever. The Lebron James of wrestling, the physical monster that you can't turn the TV off when he's on there. He needs a big time match at Wrestlemania, and I hope the guy has a match at the Rumble as well. Ideal Brock match for Wrestlemania XXIX ? 

PS: The Brock Doc was AMAZING for 2003 standards, but pretty bad when comparing it to nowadays big production and in depth deals. Kind of the forefather to the modernized Doc's we're getting now in 2012.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rock316AE said:


> With the talk about doing volume 2 for the Nitro DVD(It was a big success, usually all the WCW concepts are selling well), I can see them doing something like that with the AE. Maybe a series.
> 
> I don't remember Austin/HHH(which is a perfect choice for these DVDs because most of the memorable matches are already on the Individual). Rock/HHH in a cage was an awesome match. The cage match they had on RAW in July always got the promotion but I thought that the Rebellion match was a league above it. IIRC Angle and Austin defended the title in a 4 way on the December UK PPVs in 1998 and 2000. A few weeks ago I watched some segments from Superstars in 1999, they had a segment there with Rock and Austin in the Emmys doing comedy on stage. That's usually the selling point for me on their DVDs and would be great if they can get things like that from their archives. Especially now when they don't need to blur half the screen with the WWF logo.


I think now that the scratch logo & WWF don't have to be censored we will see more footage from that era on DVDs and compilations. If they ever do the Rock/Austin set they should gather all the segments you are mentioning and more. 

Capital Carnage '98 match was extremely fun main event with a molten hot UK crowd:











Also, here are links to the Austin/Triple H match from Manchester. The event took place like that same week after WrestleMania XIV (start @ 13:58): http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/6j2X6NLeF54/
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/1Y2vDyjzOQE/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, Trips has stated numerous times that he and Austin wrestled practically almost everynight for a few straight months leading up to and after Wrestlemania XIV , due to Shawn obviously being able to compete. I'd like to go back and see those matches actually, I think that'd be some pretty cool shit. Imagine what a best of the House Shows DVD could bring us.... Do you think there was ever a ***** 3/4 - ****** match to take place on a House Show ? Like one night two guys just went out there and perfected EVERYTHING for 30 minutes. It'd be interesting to see for sure.

PS: Does anybody have tabs on that guy who was/is selling the 20 disc Brock comp ? I'd be interested in copping that for sure. I NEED all of his televised matches and maybe even a few more, that's the nature of my obsession over DA BROCKTAGON. TRIPS-BORK II = JIZZZZZZZ


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

^Eddie said in his book that he and RVD had a classic in Alaska. Sounds pretty good.



Hailsabin said:


> Yeah, I can't say I agree with all of that. Especially about BROCK vs Cena being booked wrong. Match was just about flawless. Cena winning doesn't make the booking terrible. Sorry.


Yeah bad example. Cena basically had to win. I just hate the ending, not so much the bookings fault. Maybe the same vein as Nash/Goldberg?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Coolquip said:


> Yeah bad example. Cena basically had to win. I just hate the ending, not so much the bookings fault. Maybe the same vein as Nash/Goldberg?


Yeah, better example I'd say. Now Nash/Golberg was a poor booking decision. Followed by an even worse one (aka finger poke of doom)

K1ngOfK1ngs you remember BROCK's in ring promo the Smackdown before NWO '04 vs Eddie? I know you were marking over his ring work, but damn if that's not his best segment then idk what is. GOLD. BROCK LEVEL GOLD.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

In Jericho's book he talks about how him and Rock would wrestle awesome matches back to back to back in front of great crowds in Japan. Would be cool to see these.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair claims his matches vs Steamboat that weren't televised were even better than all of their classics that were.

that's the biggest example I can note.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Yeah, Trips has stated numerous times that he and Austin wrestled practically almost everynight for a few straight months leading up to and after Wrestlemania XIV , due to Shawn obviously being able to compete. I'd like to go back and see those matches actually, I think that'd be some pretty cool shit. Imagine what a best of the House Shows DVD could bring us.... Do you think there was ever a ***** 3/4 - ****** match to take place on a House Show ? Like one night two guys just went out there and perfected EVERYTHING for 30 minutes. It'd be interesting to see for sure.
> 
> PS: Does anybody have tabs on that guy who was/is selling the 20 disc Brock comp ? I'd be interested in copping that for sure. I NEED all of his televised matches and maybe even a few more, that's the nature of my obsession over DA BROCKTAGON. TRIPS-BORK II = JIZZZZZZZ


Platt's the guy with the Lesnar comp .

I'd love for a best of house show dvd. Mainly for some of the stuff in late 97/early 98 with HBK and Undertaker. As far as I know they NEVER had a singles match at a house show or even TV (has any major feud ever done that???), but they did have plenty of tag matches (got a couple already on disc).


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Your guys least favorite match of all time? Maybe not the worst match or one that's generally viewed as bad, but one you just can't stand.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Flair claims his matches vs Steamboat that weren't televised were even better than all of their classics that were.
> 
> that's the biggest example I can note.


I can't even begin to fathom how good those matches must have been if true.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Take it for what it's worth but Meltzer gave one of those Flair/Steamboat house show matches from 1989 _six stars_.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are 2 Flair/Steamboat matches from '89 house shows available to watch online and whatnot. Don't think either is as good as the 3 PPV matches, but both are still really good and in the ****+ range.

Least favourite match? Might be Eddie/Rey from WM 21. Hate it with an absolute passion. Rey is constantly fucking around with his mask. Neither seem to be connecting like they normally do. Nothing looks good. Just a horrible match from 2 guys who usually have such amazing chemistry.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> Take it for what it's worth but Meltzer gave one of those Flair/Steamboat house show matches from 1989 _six stars_.


Fuck. :lmao



Coolquip said:


> Your guys least favorite match of all time? Maybe not the worst match or one that's generally viewed as bad, but one you just can't stand.


I think Trips/Kozlov might be up there for me. I really can't stand that match.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

What happened to the Hall of Fame thread? As we grow closer to the new year, I need to be able to shill Rick Rude to people!



Coolquip said:


> Your guys least favorite match of all time? Maybe not the worst match or one that's generally viewed as bad, but one you just can't stand.


Two come to mind:

Jake "The Snake" Roberts Vs. "Ravishing" Rick Rude; WWF Wrestlemania IV - 5-finger stinker to a 15-minute time limit draw. If I had to guess, I would say it was purposely bad as they were probably pissed they were both being eliminated.

The Texas Tornado Vs. The Mountie - Had this match on an old VHS tape. WWF World Tour 1992. They worked a headlock for like 12 minutes & the match ended with a fuck finish. HATED this match but loved that tape for a Randy Savage Vs. Shawn Michaels match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

BORK vs. BERG is easily my least favourite match of all time. Words cannot even begin to descibe that match


----------



## Comrade Chico (Nov 8, 2012)

Goldberg vs DDP from Havoc. They were building the whole thing like DDP could really pull it off and when Page hit the Diamond Cutter everyone thought that was finally it. Alas...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Least favorite match? HHH/Koslov Svs easily. You couldn't pay me to sit through that whole match again and expect me to stay awake.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Big Boss Man/Al Snow Kennel From Hell... ugh.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

HHH/Kozlov SVS and Brock Lesnar/Goldberg WM

Ugh...you couldn't pay me to watch those 2 matches ever again. 

Summing up lesnar/goldberg: YOU SOLD OUT! and EPIC STAREDOWN FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE MATCH. Then finish....the only saving grace of that match is the austin stunners. That match just pissed me off...

I've tried to burn HHH/Kozlov from my memory but my god that was the most boring match i've ever seen.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

What was so bad with Trips/Kozlov? I thought it was a pretty decent wrestling match. Then again, I have only seen it once.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Sparta101 said:


> What was so bad with Trips/Kozlov? I thought it was a pretty decent wrestling match. Then again, I have only seen it once.


It a fucking piece of shit, that's what's bad about it. I've seen it once and have absolutely zero desire to ever watch it again. Horrible, _horrible_ match. Taker had to job to him on SD but poor Hunter had the unfortunate task of working a fucking PPV match with him. I don't think it's a surprise that his unfathomable push quickly died down after this lol. Speaking of Survivor Series though...

*HBK vs. HHH vs. Cena, Survior Series 09 - ****1/2* and possibly *****3/4* if I'm feeling generous. I absolutely fucking love this thing. Probably the best first 15 seconds to a match in history with that SCM to Hunter. The place just goes mental after that lol. Then we get effectively 3 mini matches in 1 with HBK vs. Cena, HHH vs. Cena and then HBK vs. HHH which btw, fuck them for not giving us a HBK vs. HHH match before Shawn retired. Yes I'm still butthurt about that, haha. The spot where Shawn superkicks Cena and then superkicks Hunter right on top of him into an unintentional pin is legit nuts. Awesome spot that had me on the edge of my seat even now. Yeah I'm probably overrating it but I don't care. I'm a huge mark for all 3 guys and they completely tore shit up in that match. Brilliant stuff. 

*JBL vs. Eddie, Judgment Day 04* - I don't even know how to star this thing tbh. Jesus Christ that's probably the craziest thing I've ever seen in a WWE ring in my life. I hadn't watched this since it happened but holy fucking Christ Eddie Guerrero. I dare anybody to say this shit is fake after watching that. I'm just completely stumped. Call it passion, call it craziness, call it whatever the hell you want but you have to respect the hell of that man for battling through that and he just kept coming and coming. The match itself was great up until that point. Probably hovering around ****** but then that chair shot happened and I don't really know how to rate it after that because I was sitting there almost in shock tbh. Just an utterly mad ending to a match and once again, Eddie deserves a freaking medal to still be standing after that thing. Definitely the worst I've ever seen somebody bleed. The DVD also includes the extra of JBL chucking Mexicans back over the border which is always :lmao. Crazy stuff.

*Royal Rumble 2008* - I watched this after the DX/Cena triple threat just for the hell of it. It starts when Cena comes out and is just mad. MSG shit their pants when his music hits. WHAT A POP. The faceoff between Cena and Hunter made me mark out like a child. These two just light shit up when they face each other and those fans were eating it up. If anybody wants a good laugh check out the guy sitting on the right at ringside with the RKO hoodie and a title belt. Dude was absolutely hilarious throughout the whole match. He was marking for everything and completely lost his shit when it came down to the end. :lmao :lmao :lmao I had to go back and watch it again solely so I could focus on him and his reactions lol. I personally love the ending to this thing and it just has that big time feel to it with everybody going mental. What an atmosphere.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That SS match is sooo much fun. I don't know if I watched the show live or not, but I watched it unspoiled and hooooly fuck I lost my shit at the start. Starts great, and keeps it up all the way through too. Definitely one of the very best triple threats.

Eddie/JBL is immense. JBL looked like a main eventer, and Eddie looked like a GOAT. Chairshot is sick. How Eddie kept going for the rest of the match is insane.

RR 08... one of my absolute LEAST favourite rumble matches of all time. Dislike it immensely. Starts good with HBK and Undertaker, the final 2 from the year before... and has the likes of Foley/HHH and Piper/Snuka as great MSG throwbacks, but fuck the stuff in between was dull as shit. And I'm probably one of the very few people to legitimately NOT mark out in the slightest when Cena made his return. Yes, it was a MASSIVE surprise, but I simply groaned when he showed up because I knew he was winning. I do :lmao at the MSG crowd for popping like fuck when his music hits, then they realise "ZOMG ITZ CENA N WE HATZ TEH CENA" so they start booing.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

That Eddie Vs JBL match is probably in my top 20 matches of all time. Just a masterpiece in insanity. Brock Vs Cena looks like a Hornswoggle comedy skit compared to the last 10 mins of Eddie Vs JBL.

Just watched some good ole 2002-2003 Lensar.

Lesnar V Taker Unforgiven 2002 ***3/4
Angle V Lensar Iron man match ****1/2
Brock V Rock SS ***3/4
Angle V Lesnar WM ****1/4
Brock V HHH V Rock Global Warning (lolwut) ***1/2

Damn Lensar was such a great worker, can't say he still is as the Lesnar V HHH match a few months ago was really bad and boring as shit (seriously what happened?), but damn, back in his prime he was the best big man in the biz (next to the Undertaker)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MSG ACTING LIKE DEM MARKS FOR DAT JAWN CENA

It cracks me up too. They pop like crazy for him, then quickly remember that they hate him and start booing lol. Seriously check out that guy on the front right though. He made me :lmao so hard.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RR08... man, I remember like the final 6 or so. I wanted to Kennedy to win... and he got eliminated. So then I wanted Umaga to win... then it was Kane, but he was eliminated. Batista was my next pic, and he got fucking eliminated. So then I was like "fuck it, please win this HHH"... and HE GETS FUCKING ELIMINATED! Worst final 6 RR luck ever (of course, I knew Kane and Umaga weren't winning it, and chances were Kennedy wasn't winning it, but still...)

Still love HHH's reaction when Cena's music hits. Up to that point he's all like, "Imgonnawin Imgonnawin Imgonnawin Imgonnawin Imgonnawin Imgonnawin" *Cena's music hits* "Imgonnawin Imgonn... oh fuck it all!"


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Sandrone said:


> RR08... man, I remember like the final 6 or so. I wanted to Kennedy to win... and he got eliminated. So then I wanted Umaga to win... then it was Kane, but he was eliminated. Batista was my next pic, and he got fucking eliminated. So then I was like "fuck it, please win this HHH"... and HE GETS FUCKING ELIMINATED! Worst final 6 RR luck ever (of course, I knew Kane and Umaga weren't winning it, and chances were Kennedy wasn't winning it, but still...)
> 
> *Still love HHH's reaction when Cena's music hits. Up to that point he's all like, "Imgonnawin Imgonnawin Im]gonnawin Imgonnawin Imgonnawin Imgonnawin" *Cena's music hits* "Imgonnawin Imgonn... oh fuck it all!"*


:lmao I remember rushing home to watch it after school because I was convinced HHH was going to win too. That was the story they were building heading into the Rumble that year and I just knew it. He comes in at 29 and I'm all . The Cena comes in at 30 and I'm like :shocked: then  then  then  again because I was marking out for the 2 of them. My dad was sitting there looking at me like what in the fuck is wrong with you lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_DAT BORK DVD DISC 2_

vs Leviathan OVW : ****
W/Shelton vs Prototype/Rico OVW : *** 1/4*
vs Jeff Hardy BL 02 : *** 1/2*
vs RVD KOTR 02 : *** 3/4*
W/Taker vs Flair/RVD RAW 02 : *****
vs Hogan SD 02 : **** 1/2*
vs Rock SS 02 : ***** 1/4*
vs Orton SD 02 : *** 1/4*
vs Taker UNF 02 : ******
vs Taker NM 02 : ***** 3/4*
RR Match 2003 : *N/A*
vs Team Angle SD 03 : *** 1/2*

TWELVE MATCHES ON ONE DISC! Only the power of the great BORK could contain that much sheer awesomeness. Lesnar Squashes > ALL. When he squashed that piece of fucking filth Jeff Hardy I almost came in my pants a little, marked out like a mother fucker actually (because of my disdain for everything HARDY). The Tag match is a real hidden gem, and I've really warmed up to the SS and UNF 02 PPV matches on a third watch. Best Debut year ever by far. 

The Brock-Taker series... MAH GAWD. The abdominal work in the Unforgiven match, and the sheer brutality of the HIAC match made this 02 series of matches something to behold. The UNF match is one of the true underrated matches ever. Haven't seen a match with as much energy from start to finish as Brock-Rock. I'd be completely cool with Brock-Rock II as long as BORK went over again of course. 

I was thinking about why they went the direction they did with the ER 12 main event, and I've come to the conclusion that that was just a way for Brock to give back to the company that gave him everything, the company that he ultimately left. What better way to give back to the reason why you were so popular in the first place by coming back with more credibility than ever and putting over the top guy. It was Brock's way of giving back, by putting over a company guy. I wish some OTHER part timers would do the same thing .........


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

^ That Rock/Bork match reminds me of sumtin'.... Am I wrong to say that Tazz/Cole from early Smackdown brand split was pretty damn good. Idk if maybe Tazz was motivation but Cole wasn't bad at all back then. I mean he was a bit of a goob but he knew what to say and when to say it. And Tazz just needed Vince in his ear. God I miss Ruthless Agression-era Smackdown.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Surprised to see people hate on HHH/Lesnar so much. It was not a classic like Cena/Lesnar, but I still thought it was somewhere in the 3 star range.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

DFUSCMAN said:


> HHH/Kozlov SVS and Brock Lesnar/Goldberg WM
> 
> Ugh...you couldn't pay me to watch those 2 matches ever again.
> 
> ...


The crowd made Lesnar/Golberg enjoyable tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Least favorite match? Sheesh...the two listed are pretty fitting. Oh, I got one. Triple H vs Randy Orton from WrestleMania 25. Nothing about it is good.

Brothers of Destruction vs Kronik from Unforgiven 2001 has to be mentioned too. Train-wreck the moment the bell rang.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Also gotta mention Richards/Tomko from either Armageddon '03 or '04.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> Also gotta mention Richards/Tomko from either Armageddon '03 or '04.


Unforgiven 2004 actually. Worthless piece of trash "match".


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Unforgiven 2004 actually. Worthless piece of trash "match".


Ah, yes. Completely agreed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Also gotta mention Richards/Tomko from either Armageddon '03 or '04.


:lmao (Y)

Armageddon 2004 had it's fair share of shit on it. That's probably why you got confused. Such classics as Bashams vs Haas/Holly, Mizanin vs Puder in a boxing match, & Angle vs SANTA CLAUS.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Haas/Holly might be the most random tag team WWE has ever done.

I remember in '07 there was a dirt sheet saying Holly was going to team with Eugene and they were gonna have a monkey as manager. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DAMMIT @ that team not happening.

Oh, I GOT IT! Number one match that I would say is my least favorite ever: Hulk Hogan vs The Giant ~ WCW Hog Wild 1996. 

:|


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Holly's push at the Royal Rumble was almost like Steiner's from the year before. A small push for the title then one month after, he finds himself in random tag team matches and misses a bunch of shows. I really don't understand why the fans even cheered him. I just can't buy into him as a face after hearing all this shit about how much of a bully he is.

Further going on my 2005 journey, I've reached a bit of a roadblock because the shows from April have some problems and the length appears shorter than the videos actually are. (one is 93 minutes yet it only plays until 41 minutes into it*) And I also don't know if I'm willing to rewatch Wrestlemania 21 after having seen it twice already. But I do need to re-review it since I've gotten better at it compared to my first time.

* = If anyone here knows a solution, it would appreciated.


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

Picked up a copy of nWo: The Revolution today. So far I've just watched the documentary and extra features on disc one. The documentary wasn't too bad a lot of it is common knowledge. But it was nice to see them actually acknowledge the Wolfpac this time. It definitely had a rise and fall feel to the DVD. It was also nice to see the WWF scratch logo not blurred and the phrase "WWF" actually said and not censored out. One thing that did kinda surprise me was at the end when it was admitted that WWE's version was a flop and the original nWo in WCW was easily the best. Overall, I liked it. I'm going to try to get into disc two later tonight.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Anybody have a shortlist of ****3/4-***** matches in WWE/F history that you feel are must watch for everyone that they can share? Theres tons of stuff I've never watched in WWE since I've really only been a fan since '08 and didn't start watching PPV's tell '11. I've gone back and watched some stuff but not nearly enough, and I have a 3 day weekend so I wanna burn through some stuff!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm not going to put ratings on them but I'll list a few WWF/E matches I highly recommend (pre-08):

Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat - WrestleMania III
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind - Mind Games 1996
Owen Hart vs. British Bulldog - Raw 02/26/1997
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio - No Mercy 2002
Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded 2000


These matches randomly popped into my head but they all are great imo and worth a watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

mk92071 said:


> Anybody have a shortlist of ****3/4-***** matches in WWE/F history that you feel are must watch for everyone that they can share? Theres tons of stuff I've never watched in WWE since I've really only been a fan since '08 and didn't start watching PPV's tell '11. I've gone back and watched some stuff but not nearly enough, and I have a 3 day weekend so I wanna burn through some stuff!


Edge/Christian vs Hardys vs Dudleys ~ Summerslam 2000 & WrestleMania 17
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels ~ Badd Blood 1997, WrestleMania 25, & WrestleMania 26
Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar ~ No Way Out 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs John Bradshaw Layfield ~ Judgment Day 2004
The Undertaker vs Mankind ~ King of the Ring 1998
Shawn Michaels vs Vader ~ Summerslam 1996
Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior ~ WrestleMania VII
Steve Austin vs Dude Love ~ Over the Edge 1998
Edge vs Kurt Angle ~ Judgment Day 2002

There's some really high level matches off the top of my head. Tried to give some variety. Plus, being a WWF/WWE fan you HAVE to see most of those.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho- Wrestlemania XXVIII for the WWE Championship: ****1/2*
Love the build up to this match with both men wanting to prove that they are the undisputed "Best in the World". Not only that, it's a little personal with Chris Jericho calling his father an alcoholic, his sister a drug addict, and that CM Punk is a bastard. Anyway, I love how they used the "If Punk gets DQ'd then he loses the title" rule in the beginning with Jericho egging Punk on by bringing up his father and sister. Then it turns into a pure wrestling match with Chris Jericho working on the back after a suplex from the ring to the outside. I also love the back and forth action with both men trying to get an advantage, especially the last 5 minutes with the counters to their respective submissions. It progressively built up and had good suspense. Great match from two great wresters.

*CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho- Extreme Rules 2012: Chicago Street Fight for the WWE Championship: ****1/4*
Didn't love this match as much as their Wrestlemania encounter, but a great match nonetheless. The build up to this match I thought was pretty good with Chris Jericho attacking Punk's Straight Edge lifestyle and vowing that he will make Punk drink. As expected in a Street Fight, the pure wrestling goes out of the window and becomes a brawl. I liked Jericho's little heel moments like ramming Punk's head into the barricade in front of Punk's sister (who's in attendance) and pouring alcohol on Punk which was a cool callback to what happened weeks before. Some insane moments made this a really fun match to watch and that brings an end to this feud.

So what did everyone else think of the Punk/Jericho feud? I thought it was really good and well done as it was both about professional pride with being the "Best in the World" and personal pride with Jericho attacking Punk's lifestyle and family.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I loved it. The sobriety stuff towards the end was...goofy. That was whatever for me. Rest was something I bought into. It was a dream match for me to see them work a real program so that's what I got out of it. I seem to be the biggest advocate of their WrestleMania match too. It stole the show for me.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Was disappointed in the Mania match but I enjoyed the Extreme Rules match much more. Feud was okay, couldn't really get into for real.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Loved the Punk/Jericho match at WM and still enjoyed the ER one. Storyline wasn't as bad as people make it out to be, imo. Nothing amazing but I felt it translated into the two matches well.

I absolutely love the WM one. From the beginning when Jericho tries to get on his nerves all the way through the epic match they put on.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Anyone remember this Cena vs. Punk match from Raw 11/23/2009? These guys have such good chemistry together and they produced another good TV match here. Finish was really nice too:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The feud was pretty much centered around that GREAT promo they had the week following Jericho's battle royal win. That's all they needed to put over the BITW vs BITW aspect for me. Damn I loved it. Glad I own the go home Smackdown for WrestleMania 28 since they didn't include the hype videos for matches on the PPV. Loved the hype video. For all of the matches really.

Watching In Your House III: Triple Header atm. Stumbled upon youtube having just about most of these old school ppvs in full on there. Gonna see how many I watch tonight. 1995 nostalgia trip. Those are always the best when wanting to see the worst.

EDIT ~ you mean their very first match against each other on TV/PPV? I went ape for it. Super F-U = :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Punk/Jericho WM - **** 1/2 - MOTN, IMO.
Punk/Jericho ER - **** - Probably would have been MOTN if Extreme Rules didn't end up being one of the best WWE Shows in years.

Oh, and that Cena/Punk match reminds me how much I miss This Fire Burns as Punk's theme. I hate Cult Of Personality :no:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cult fits him so much better. I'm pro CULT.

oh and man, those In Your House PPVs were something else back in 1995. Regardless of how well they were, it was fun to see them promote monthly PPVs for the first time instead of only having 4 per year. 

Sure as hell gave the roster a chance to actually work matches on PPV instead of the same guys over and over.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Without positivley knowing of course just a question, does WWE have house shows in thier vault, and could they release some matches in the future?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wish they would release the original Lesnar/HHH "champion vs champion" house show match from 2002/2003. Bet it was a lot better than the SummerSlam match as Lesnar actually was a WRESTLER in wrestling clothes and not the stupid MMA gear he's given now.

EDIT: Just rewatched Edge/Benoit on Raw after Wrestlemania 21. Excellent match and even better than first watch. Easy **** and their best match together.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmfj44_edge-vs-chris-benoit-raw-4-4-2005_sport


----------



## ConnorMCFC (Mar 12, 2012)

I can't wait until WWE produce a Cena DVD. Non-kayfabe, with him commenting on the beginning of the hate and the hate in general and things like that. Would be a big seller i imagine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Without positivley knowing of course just a question, does WWE have house shows in thier vault, and could they release some matches in the future?


I'm sure there are some stuff. Most times you can see house shows due to fan cams.



Choke2Death said:


> I wish they would release the original Lesnar/HHH "champion vs champion" house show match from 2002/2003. Bet it was a lot better than the SummerSlam match as Lesnar actually was a WRESTLER in wrestling clothes and not the stupid MMA gear he's given now.
> 
> EDIT: Just rewatched Edge/Benoit on Raw after Wrestlemania 21. Excellent match and even better than first watch. Easy **** and their best match together.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmfj44_edge-vs-chris-benoit-raw-4-4-2005_sport


I don't think BROCK's attire has anything to do with it. If anything, not quite sure how that house show match would have gone if it was in 2003. That wasn't Trips best year pardon some matches here and there.

That match beats the Last Man Standing from Backlash? Might be hard to compare based solely on the one being a wrestling match and the other being a gimmick, but I need an answer.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'd take the SD 07 and the Raw match after WM21 over the LMS match at Backlash. I completely agree with C2D on Benoit's selling is exceptional less than 24 hours after his arm was ravaged in Money in the Bank. Edge was perfect during that late '04 - '05 period when he was literally on the edge about to go insane if he lost a match or the fact he wasn't a World Champion by that point. All are quality because Edge and Benoit have good chemistry together.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

How are those La Resistance vs Edge/Benoit matches from '04? I know at least one of them got good time but I don't recall any of them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The first one when La Resistance wins the championships on RAW sticks out in my mind as "the good one." 

That could simply be thanks to the AWESOME reaction when La Resistance wins.

Bad Blood 2004 is above average and Taboo Tuesday is boring until the last 30 seconds.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I don't think BROCK's attire has anything to do with it. If anything, not quite sure how that house show match would have gone if it was in 2003. That wasn't Trips best year pardon some matches here and there.
> 
> That match beats the Last Man Standing from Backlash? Might be hard to compare based solely on the one being a wrestling match and the other being a gimmick, but I need an answer.


No, the attire is not a big factor, but I just find it more enjoyable when Brock is presented as a wrestler rather than some martial artist. He's got plenty of talent as just a straight-up wrestler, whether it's power, technicality or speed, so I find the extra length they go to to make him a MMA guy with menacing fighting abilities unnecessary.

And yes, I prefer both the SD 07 and this Raw match over the LMS. To my surprise, the LMS I didn't like all that much. It was good and all, but felt a bit slow like this gimmick tends to be a lot of the time. I will get to it soon, though. Since Backlash is just around the corner in my 05 journey.



Clique said:


> I'd take the SD 07 and the Raw match after WM21 over the LMS match at Backlash. I completely agree with C2D on Benoit's selling is exceptional less than 24 hours after his arm was ravaged in Money in the Bank. Edge was perfect during that late '04 - '05 period when he was literally on the edge about to go insane if he lost a match or the fact he wasn't a World Champion by that point. All are quality because Edge and Benoit have good chemistry together.


Agreed completely. Benoit does a wonderful job selling that arm injury when most others would have forgotten about it completely. And Edge also does a great job as the heel that works on the weak point followed by the post-match beat down that makes him look strong too.



Hailsabin said:


> The first one when La Resistance wins the championships on RAW sticks out in my mind as "the good one."
> 
> That could simply be thanks to the AWESOME reaction when La Resistance wins.
> 
> Bad Blood 2004 is above average and Taboo Tuesday is boring until the last 30 seconds.


Yeah, I only really liked their match in Quebec. It was refreshing to watch a La Resistance match where the stupid audience is not stuck chanting the same ol' "USA USA USA" shit. I find that chant absolutely annoying and disrespectful. It makes the audience look like xenophobes that believe they are above everyone else and anyone not from the U.S. is evil.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually like BROCK's incorporation of the MMA gear. Only because it comes with the whole "I'm not a entertainer. I'm an ass-kicker" deal. Which I imagine isn't saying MMA > wrestling (because lol it's not) but merely BROCK saying fuck the tights and flashy gimmicks, I'm gonna murder you during this match.

Well being in Quebec certainly helped. I was pulling for them to win too. Benoit/Edge didn't need the tag gold and I wanted something even more refreshing in the tag division. I don't mind the USA chants. I never do them live, since I'm not much of a "patriot", but it's a way for fans to get into the bouts. Plus its so old-school that its fun. Reminds me of Nikolai Volkoff in the 80's. Or The Koloffs. Damn talk about heat.

oh and USA chants are MUCH more tolerable than the ever garbage "you fucked up" stuff. Never liked that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My problem with the USA chants is when it's completely random. If it's a guy with a "Fuck America" gimmick, fine. But when they only do it just because a wrestler is from another country, it's just stupid. For instance, IIRC, they chanted it at Capitol Punishment in a match between Wade Barrett and Ezekiel Jackson. Completely meaningless. Neither guy is from America but nor do they have an anti-America gimmick so what are they trying to get across?

On another note, to advance through 05, I just finished rewatching the WM21 matches (although a few Raw episodes simply refuse to fully play which sucks).

*Wrestlemania 21:*

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - ***
- This is not the masterpiece WWE might want you to believe just because of where it takes place, but it's not as bad as some in this thread make you think. They barely get above 10 minutes and a large amount of it is wasted on some pointless "technical" mat-wrestling and it only takes off in the last few minutes. When it gets there, it's pretty good but I can bet the rest of their series offer better matches with improved storytelling.

Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin vs Christian vs Kane (Money in the Bank) - ****1/4
- Absolutely amazing ladder match. There are six great competitors in the match and plenty of time to make this match as good as possible. Kane is the powerhouse that looks out of place, Shelton is the athletic guy that is all over the place while the other four are all great athletes with the goal of becoming World Champion. During the time it gets, there are plenty of memorable spots such as Benoit giving Jericho & a ladder the German Suplex, Shelton running up the steps of the ladders to clothesline Jericho, springboard moonsaulting on everyone outside, giving Edge a ladder T-Bone Suplex and last but not least, Benoit's beautiful headbutt from the top of a ladder. Non-stop entertainment on that part. Then there's Benoit who sells his arm to perfection after taking damage from Kane smashing a ladder against it, Christian doing an arm DDT on him from the ladder and lastly, Edge's chair shot. Speaking of Edge, he is removed from the match after that T-Bone and only comes back at the end to steal the briefcase, thus giving birth to his nickname, The Ultimate Opportunist. One of WWE's future stars was created right here in this excellent ladder match.

The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - ****1/4
- This is the match where Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak would become a selling point for his matches from this point on and what a great match to set it off. Orton looks like a threat throughout this, Taker does his "vintage" stuff and it's just a solid 15 minute match between these two. For anyone watching live, the Chokeslam countered to an RKO must have been a moment similar to WM28 when Taker took a Sweet Chin Music and Pedigree but still kicked out. After that, Orton attempts a Tombstone that is reversed to one by Taker himself which finishes things off with the pin and another classic. Bob Orton also makes his debut as a character that helps Randy furthermore in the rest of this excellent feud.

Trish Stratus vs Christy Hemme - 1/2*
- Just complete trash and Christy only got here because of her publicity following the Playboy photos. Match itself is terrible but there's one goofy moment that I will never forget and that's Christy kicking Trish between the legs as if she's got a pair of testicles to make it hurt _that_ much.

Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4
- Some may call it overrated here and I guess it's right to an extent. But I still think this is a great match. Starts off slow with some boring headlocks for several minutes but since this gets almost 30 minutes, there's plenty more to spend on improving. Crowd is at its best here with a dual "Let's go Michaels"/"Let's go Angle" chant going on. Gets better after that Moonsault into announce table spot where both men look like they were hurt badly and for that reason, referee's ten count felt like it was intentionally slowed down to make them recover. In the last few minutes, that's the classic part of this match, though. Several awesome nearfalls, reversals and finishers until Angle reverses a Sweet Chin Music attempt into an Ankle Lock and makes HBK tap out after being in the hold for about 5 minutes maybe.

Akebono vs Big Show (Sumo Match) - 1/4*
- Just a worthless waste of time. I can't believe the reason the match following it had its time cut off by five minutes because they felt it was more important to have this and Eugene's stupid nonsense along with Hogan's overly long celebration.

JBL vs John Cena - **1/4
- I gave this three stars at one point but after having watched the whole year and build-up to this, that was far too much. As a regular match, it's not extremely awful or anything, but it's such a let-down. JBL spent 9 months retaining the WWE Championship in the most cowardly, sneaky, intelligent, whatever-you-wanna-call-it ways but here, it feels like a normal match with all the build-up intensity thrown out of the window. It feels just like a regular TV match with JBL controlling most of it, then Cena makes a fast comeback, hitting some moves before he takes a big boot, ducks a Clothesline from Hell attempt and gives JBL the FU to win. Extremely underwhelming because there was zero build-up towards the finish, very little reason to care about the match and just not enough time to make it interesting. Cena's post-match celebration also feels extremely forced just like his whole "WE ARE THE CHAIN GANG" shtick that he's kept going on about on Smackdown. I also have to say that I noticed Cena getting booed a little by the end which is a foreshadowing to what would follow by the end of 2005. Despite all this criticism, I guess their "I Quit" match made up for it later on, leading to Cena leaving Smackdown with a bang.

Triple H vs Batista - ***
- An awesome build-up but this just has something missing. The crowd is pretty dead for the most of it and the match is kinda slow. HHH controls the first half and even delivers a top rope elbow drop without it being reversed like 99.9% of the time. Then they exit the ring and HHH attempts a Pedigree on the steel steps which Batista reverses to a catapult after which, HHH starts bleeding - a lot more than I remembered previously. Then they remind us again of Batista's power towards the end when he powers out of a Pedigree that he turns into a Celtic Cross-like slam. Then it's the powerbomb and the successful pin that makes Batista the new World Heavyweight Champion. Other than that, nothing noteworthy happened except the obligatory dirty tricks of HHH using the belt and a lowblow behind referee's back. Not WM-main event worthy but a decent match nonetheless.

*Overall:* ***3/4 out of ***** (A very good Wrestlemania that gets overlooked due to the lack of "big time" attractions. Here, Stone Cold and Hulk Hogan only appear in segments, The Rock's contract ran out which prevented him from appearing and the main attractions are the title matches where Batista & Cena are still up & comers before they proved themselves to be full-time draws for the company afterward. But aside from that, this PPV is filled with great stuff, including three classics, a couple of decent matches and two duds. This Wrestlemania along with 22 were both cursed in a way because a lot of plans had to be changed. In here, The Rock & Brock Lesnar permanently departing from the company are the big reasons while Mania 22 has so many more reasons that I'll get to when I'm there.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

In Washington DC. Both guys a foreign. All I can think of.

Nice review per usual. Glad to see I'm not the only guy who puts Taker/Orton in the **** area. Match is :mark: My personal MOTN although the real honor goes to the Ladder match. Seriously can't find a reason NOT to give it 5 stars. ****3/4 feels right though.

It's too bad the show peaks following Taker/Orton. Rest of the show is lol worthy with the exception of Piper's Pit.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Cal and I give Taker/Orton that same rating but that's no surprise. WM21 had the potential to be one of the best cards ever but it didn't quite reach that level due to the disappointing opener, the divas match (wish Lita didn't get hurt), sumo match, and two average or below average main events. Bright side is the all-time classic wrestling match Angle/Michaels produced (**** 3/4), Taker/Orton which was awesomely paced and made me believe the Streak could be over (**** 1/4), and the best MITB Ladder match ever with Benjamin showing out and Benoit's epic selling (**** 1/2).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle vs Michaels doesn't even go past *** in my book.

blah. Better than the two weak main events, but that isn't saying much.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

WM21 ratings:

Eddie/Rey ***
MITB **** 3/4
Taker/Orton: *** 3/4, but this likely would have been alot higher if I remember what it was like watching it live. Same for all Taker streak matches minus 25-28
Trish/Christy DUD
Angle/Michaels **** 3/4
Akebono/Show DUD
JBL/Cena ** 1/4
HHH/Batista ** 3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie/Mysterio ~ ***
MITB ~ ****3/4
Undertaker/Orton ~ ****1/4
Trish/Christy ~ DUD
Michaels/Angle ~ ***
Sumo Match ~ N/R
Cena/JBL ~ *1/2
HHH/Batista ~ **

slap a gimmick on Cena/JBL & HHH/Batista and they instantly became GREAT. Especially the HIAC between HHH/Batista. One of my all time favorites right there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That is definitely true. I Quit & HIAC were both CLASSIC. Haven't seen Backlash match yet, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's better than WrestleMania, but not by much. **1/4.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> It's better than WrestleMania, but not by much. **1/4.


I'll judge it for myself when I get there. 

As for now, I just finished the 11/4 Raw and Christian and Benoit had one hell of a match! ***1/2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p8wi_chris-benoit-vs-christian-pt-1_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p92q_chris-benoit-vs-christian-pt-2_sport

These Raw's have some underrated matches among them, specially with Benoit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Wrestlemania XXI*

Rey vs Eddie : *** 1/2* (Worst Rey match I've ever seen I think...)
MITB I : ***** 1/2*(BEST Spot-Fest/Multi-Man Ladder Match Ever IMO)
Taker vs Orton : ***** 1/4* (Best Streak match up to this point)
Hemme vs Trish : * 1/4 ** (Just Awful)
Angle vs Michaels : ***** 1/2* (A Wrestlemania CLASSIC)
Pipers Pit W/ SCSA : *AWSUMZZZZ*
Akebono vs Big Show : *LOLWUT*
JBL vs Cena : ** 1/2* (A disgrace to the WWE Championship and to both men. One of the worst big time matches ever)
Trips vs Tista : ***** (Good little match, great ending moment, definitely not Mania main event worthy besides the ending)

OVERALL : *7/10* (THREE Classics, a great interview segment, and a whole bunch of shit)


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

RAW in 2004 is probably one of the best years during the Ruthless Aggression Era.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio being underwhelming still > Michaels/Angle. :hmm:

I loved their rematch from Vengeance though. Now that's the one I'll put over.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gonna watch the Angle-Michaels series for some new perspective in a few weeks , I had the Vengeance one over everything else they did the last time I checked (even loved the finish regardless of how stupid everybody else thought it was) . 

I hate Eddie-Rey from both Wrestlemania and Summerslam. One of the less impressive openers in Wrestlemania history coupled with one of the worst storylines in wrestling history. My least favorite of 05, which happens to be my favorite year ever.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> Eddie/Mysterio ~ ***
> MITB ~ ****3/4
> Undertaker/Orton ~ ****1/4
> Trish/Christy ~ DUD
> ...


I actually blame booking for the main events. Especially Cena/JBL. Througjout KBL's whole title reign he couldn't win clean to save his damn life. No matter what he found away to slip out with the belt, which is fine. It kinda reminds me of HBK late 97-early 98. But when Wrestlania came Cena just beat him clean. No attempts at cheating, no interference, nothing he just sort of won. Well of course he's going to win under those circumstances hell Booker, Taker, Eddie, Angle, and Show could've beat him clean. At WM14, HBK stemmed unstoppable because he had DX and Tyson but JBL just sent OJ to the back and then lost. It's one of the few situations where the finish sort of HAD to be somewhat overbooked. Sort of like Orton/Trips where some shenanigans had to happen. 

As for Batista/Trips I think HIAC probably should've happened here. Have it just be Trips/Batista one-on-one. However, I don't think their match was that bad. And I have both Angle/Michaels and Orton/Taker at ****1/4. 


BTW Orton's RKO counter>>>>>>>>> HHH's Tombstone in terms of believability in ending the streak.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh I thought the same when I saw it live. One FU and that was it. Not bad, simply odd considering the way JBL's entire championship reign went down. That added in with the fact that it was a horribly worked match made it suck. Congrats to John Boy regardless. I was happy.

HHH/Batista is just there. Nothing about it sticks out to me other than all the fans doing the thumbs down with Batista. That owned. I think it stems from the match being blah plus the fact that I just didn't care about that program. Batista getting a push was meh from the start. It would develope into dislike later in the year and all the way until he FINALLY went heel in 2009.

Yeah, fuck Triple H's tombstone. Another insanely overrated match that wasn't even all that good. Orton's RKO was HOLY SHIT though. Seriously, my marking out in that match (WM 21) was off the charts being a mega Taker fan, and at the time, a huge Orton fan.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Angle/HBK ***? What the fuck?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know it. Overrated dreck.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*** is being nice. I'd struggle to give it that, to be honest.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

HBK's cyborg ankles.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FluxCapacitor said:


> *** is being nice. I'd struggle to give it that, to be honest.


Agreed. Vengeance is even worse and actually kinda a pile of shit.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Went way way back and checked out Pedro Morales vs Ivan Koloff for the title. Pretty fun match with a hot crowd too. I love the really old school bouts.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Was actually going to watch HBK/Angle the other day and decided to save it for when I get to 2005 on PPV. Currently on JDay 04. Still reeling over Eddie/JBL. Wow.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Clique said:


> Anyone remember this Cena vs. Punk match from Raw 11/23/2009? These guys have such good chemistry together and they produced another good TV match here. Finish was really nice too:


Whats funny/silly is that just a few weeks after this Cena beat Punk and made him tap in like 3 minutes lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I remember that. Punk was doing some entertaining stuff in the Mysterio feud in the 1st half of 2010. Other than that, he was just lost until funny enough he started feuding with Mysterio again in 2011 just before the Money In The Bank angle. Cena is no doubt Punk's best WWE opponent in the ring but Rey vs. Punk is a good combo too. I thought their Capital Punishment match last year was very good, not to forget their over SD and PPV matches since 2008.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

The first Angle/HBK is a fun watch but nothing more. JR hyping up Angle's mat-wrestling ability only for HBK to carry on out-wrestling him pissed me off.

The Vengeance match is pretty meh. Can't remember too much about it though.

Oddly enough, I did really enjoy their Ironman match on the Raw Homecoming show. Angle uses his finisher in a great way to create drama when he hits the 'slam on the outside. One of Angle's best matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Agreed. Vengeance is even worse and actually kinda a pile of shit.


You trumped me on one of my least favorite matches ever. Touche. (although I like Vengeance. )



Starbuck said:


> Was actually going to watch HBK/Angle the other day and decided to save it for when I get to 2005 on PPV. Currently on JDay 04. Still reeling over Eddie/JBL. Wow.


It's still unbelievable. Not just the chair shot/BLOOD - on. The entire match. The build, that crowd, the work between Eddie & Bradshaw. Oh that was magic. JBL became instantly credible thanks to that stuff. His singles push felt random at first, but boy did they make it work in a heartbeat.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eddie is the fucking man for actually finishing the post-match beat-down. His face was completely unrecognizable by that point but he still carried on. Don't know how. The headache/concussion he's suffered there must have been tough to deal with. And they also had him wrestle the same week on Smackdown. What a stupid decision. If there's one good thing about the Benoit tragedy, it's the fact they take head damage a lot more seriously now.

Another random match I just watched... Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle 14/4/2005. Prefer it to any of their 2004 matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Post match beatdown = :mark:

oh and the ring following the match. good lord you think you'd witness a crime scene. UN-BE-LIEV-A-BLE.

it's so extreme I had to enunciate it in all caps.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus said:


> Oddly enough, I did really enjoy their Ironman match on the Raw Homecoming show. Angle uses his finisher in a great way to create drama when he hits the 'slam on the outside. One of Angle's best matches.


I think I liked the Iron Man more than either of the PPV matches as well. In general I just inexplicably kinda like Angle in iron mans. He's a guy that can use the ankle lock haphazardly in an annoying way and just kind of toss it out randomly in a match, but with an iron man the opponent will usually tap because the match doesn't end after that. Then Angle has something to zero-in on during the next fall, which he can be good at. I definitely wouldn't call it one of Angle's best, though. 

I just watched the Lesnar/Show match where the ring blows up, and it's actually a really really fun heavyweight slugfest with Lesnar working from the bottom at the same time. The Big Show is so underrated. The Lesnar stretcher match is really awesome and should be in the same discussion as some of the best stuff either Show or Brock ever did.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I just watched the Lesnar/Show match where the ring blows up, and it's actually a really really fun heavyweight slugfest with Lesnar working from the bottom at the same time. The Big Show is so underrated. The Lesnar stretcher match is really awesome and should be in the same discussion as some of the best stuff either Show or Brock ever did.


Very good match. Big Show and Lesnar had some great chemistry together. Shame Lesnar left because he could have been part of so many interesting feuds/matches after 04.

Speaking of Ironman matches, what about the Angle/Benoit Ultimate Submission match at Backlash 2001? I have hardly seen anyone talk about it and it's one of their better matches together.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BROCK vs Show Stretcher nearly saved that crap-fest known as Judgment Day 2003 due to how awesome is was. Don't know why Big Show doesn't get credit often. Has he had some blah matches? Sure, everyone has. He's had great ones too. His return in 2008 - face turn in 2010 was one of his best streaks I've seen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

On Disc 3 of the BORK DVD, currently watching DAT IRONMAN match, trying to see if it surpassed Rocky-HHH from JD 00. Having a blast with this DVD so far, as I honestly do believe that Lesnar is one of the more captivating presences in the history of the WWE. Brock looks like a BEAST so far in this one, BAH GAWD!

Angle and Lesnar had some crazy fucking chemistry, and this Ironman match is set so far to be the best encounter by the two of them that I've seen :kurt

PS: BORK-Big Show is probably the most underrated match that I've ever seen in my life, and legit one of the most exciting matches ever concocted. THOSE STRETCHER SHOTS, DAT DIVE, DAT STIFFNESS. Lesnar in 2003 = JIZZ JIZZ JIZZ.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Show/Lesnar at JD was excellent. Lesnar/Angle Ironman is their best match and imo the best ironman match in history. Shit is just full of awesomeness for the whole hour.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BROCK driving the forklift through the stage at Judgment Day is probably the coolest moment in a match of the last decade.

BROCK


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

One of the bumps he took off of the.....something* in that match was really awesome. Show did something* and Brock just violently tumbled down the ramp-way or something*.

* = fuzzy memory. :$


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just watched the match about a month ago and I can't even remember :lmao

FUCK

It's awesome regardless. I simply can't forget that forklift spot. Impossible.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY GIVE THAT MATCH ANY RESPECT ?*

*DAT DIIIIIIVVVEEEEEEEEEEE* :brock


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Oh I thought the same when I saw it live. One FU and that was it. Not bad, simply odd considering the way JBL's entire championship reign went down. That added in with the fact that it was a horribly worked match made it suck. Congrats to John Boy regardless. I was happy.
> 
> HHH/Batista is just there. Nothing about it sticks out to me other than all the fans doing the thumbs down with Batista. That owned. I think it stems from the match being blah plus the fact that I just didn't care about that program. Batista getting a push was meh from the start. It would develope into dislike later in the year and all the way until he FINALLY went heel in 2009.
> 
> Yeah, fuck Triple H's tombstone. Another insanely overrated match that wasn't even all that good. Orton's RKO was HOLY SHIT though. Seriously, my marking out in that match (WM 21) was off the charts being a mega Taker fan, and at the time, a huge Orton fan.


Cmon now. That Tombstone HHH did was a great near fall. JR really helped make that moment twice as good with his commentating.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Chokeslam counter into the RKO is probably my favorite counter ever besides Lesnar's counter from the tombstone into the F-5. The Orton tombstone into the actual tombstone was awesome as well. Seriously though, that RKO had me believing the steak was actually over moreso than anything else that came after it, save for perhaps the Batista Bomb at Wrestlemania XXIII. 

Now it kinda feels like an atomic bonb wouldn't get a 3 count against Taker at mania , especially if :hhh didn't bury the streak...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sparta101 said:


> Cmon now. That Tombstone HHH did was a great near fall. JR really helped make that moment twice as good with his commentating.


Meh. As if I thought Triple H had a chance to win to begin with, then it might have helped. JR's commentary was awesome. That's because he's BOSS. The match, no thanks. I'll stick with WrestleMania 28. They did something special there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think I'm the only person in the universe who prefers HHH-Taker from Wrestlemania XXVII over their XXVIII encounter. The storytelling in the XXVII match was just the perfect example of subtle but hard hitting warfare I've ever seen. Don't get me wrong ; I LOVE the storytelling in the cell, but I think from time to time it got a little over the top and it's what kept the match from being this year's MOTY in my opinion. 

27's story is summed up perfectly by the promo that set it up. Just two gunslingers in the old west heading out for one last gunfight. HHH's XXVII entrance is also potentially my favorite ever <3

PS: Brock-Kurt Ironman Match : ***** 1/2* (WOW. Brock's 4th best match in my opinion. Getting ready to watch the highly touted Mysterio-Lesnar match from SD 03. This Brock project I'm completing over the next year or so is going to be a fucking BLAST)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker's entrance >

not by personal bias, but fuck he literally walks to the ring and the entire area is in awe by his presence. that was my favorite part of their program in 2011. Taker's epic entrance.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I prefer 27 by a huge margin. Probably their best match together. Though I don't remember too many of their matches I actually like.....how many HHH/Taker singles are there?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

16. From 2/8/97 - now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FOUR PERCENT AWAY FROM SD '06 FINISHING IT'S DOWNLOAD!

I'm pretty sure we get Benoit/Orton week 1 too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. 3 weeks in a row. :mark:

looking through that year and on 3/20 you get Benoit vs Regal & Finlay vs Mysterio on the same show. OMG


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Yep. 3 weeks in a row. :mark:
> 
> looking through that year and on 3/20 you get Benoit vs Regal & Finlay vs Mysterio on the same show. OMG


The fact that I only have class on Monday (then my Thanksgiving break starts) means I'm going to probably get to like July in 5 days. :lmao

The goddamn talent on this roster is amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CRAM as much as you can during your free time.

Even Bobby Lashley had some awesome matches thanks to his battles with Finlay. That's how good the year was. Holy shit, another Finlay vs Benoit match that I totally forgot about happened. And it got a good bunch of time too. Happened the same night as the Kane vs MVP steel cage. Why do I remember that but not Finlay vs Benoit?!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't think I've seen that match either. Sounds like it could own though.

I feel like I remember so many Finlay matches from '06 that he must have been putting out an average of ***+ per show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember him being the most consistent guy that year. Looking back at the 6 months he was on ECW in 2009 he was just about the #1 guy on there too. His WWE tenure may have been the strongest that didn't lead to a main event push.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would have been cool to see the belt on him. Even if it was just for a few weeks or something but to put it in the record books.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Mercy 2006 was the window. It was a long shot, but I went into it possibly getting the best result ever. No go. 

the real treat that night was the bonus match. oh HELL yeah. I have to credit other guys on the roster during the year except for Finlay, Regal, & Benoit (who wasn't even there the entire year, but OWNED during his time) Helms had one hell of a career year. Loved that being a big fan of his. UNDERTAKER is always worth praise. Even though he feuded with Khali & Kennedy, lolz. Kennedy had his best stretch of his career when he returned in 2006. Might not say much, but his credibility was at an all time high and he actually seemed like he was gonna have a future. Like I said, Lashley was carried to good stuff. Matt Hardy was on a roll, which contributes back to Helms. London & Kendrick obviously. PIRATE Paul Burchill & Simon Dean were awesome guilty pleasures for me. Booker, he deserves a mention for having his career year. Mysterio too. Orton was GREAT just in his bit on the brand. Angle too. Henry's matches don't mesh well in my head, but I'm sure he was able to have some watchable stuff. His bout vs Angle @ Judgment Day was solid. Cruiserweights did there thing of course. KANE was a fun addition at the end. Oh, and MVP was still fresh so we didn't discover his flaws till 2007, so more goodness. DAVE TAYLOR too. Ok...think I'm done.

I think I covered most ground, haha.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Anybody else feel terrible after the nWo DVD ended ?

It was like mourning WCW all over again.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

What is every ones top 5 WWE DVD's ?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

1. The Ladder Match
2. Tombstone, History of the Undertaker
3. The Rise and Fall of ECW
4. CM Punk, Best in the World
5. Stone Cold, The Bottom Line on the Most Popular Superstar of All Time


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I've seen 3rd, 4th and 5th, not seen the top 2. I've been looking to watch as many WWE DVD's as possible and I want to watch the best. I will definitely be giving 1 and 2 a look at.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Meh. As if I thought Triple H had a chance to win to begin with, then it might have helped. JR's commentary was awesome. That's because he's BOSS. The match, no thanks. I'll stick with WrestleMania 28. They did something special there.


At least I'm not the only one who doubted that HHH was a threat despite the amount of Pedigrees and the Tombstone. But then again, I was an idiot writing on the stream chatbox that Undertaker is winning instead of properly watching the match, lol.



Brye said:


> FOUR PERCENT AWAY FROM SD '06 FINISHING IT'S DOWNLOAD!
> 
> I'm pretty sure we get Benoit/Orton week 1 too.


Damn, you still not finished? Mine was downloaded a few weeks ago but not only that, I also downloaded all the 07 episodes up to Benoit's death. Now I'm almost finished with all the 06 PPVs and started downloading all the ECW episodes from that year just to complete the whole thing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top TEN BEST WWE DVDs (off the top of my head) ?

The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection
Bret "Hitman" Hart
Rey Mysterio : Biggest Little Man
Mick Foley's Greatest Hits and Misses : Hardcore Edition
Stone Cold Steve Austin : The bottom line on the most popular superstar ever
The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event
"Tombstone" The History of The Undertaker
"Macho Madness" The Ultimate Randy Savage Collection
The Rise and Fall of ECW
CM Punk : Best in the World

I'm sure I'd come up with a better list if I really thought about it. My top 3 are set in stone while the others are just scattered around there. The True Story of Wrestlemania would find itself on that list as well. If you asked for my top 10 FAVORITES , you would get :

Triple H : King of Kings

..... That is all :hhh


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Just for a side note, I would pay money to see K1ngOfK1ngs & Starbuck battle it out over whos the bigger HHH mark :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

It doesn't matter. The biggest HHH mark is, and will always be (wherever he is), JDMan.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

It's Obis. He's HHH biggest mark.

Whatever happened to that prick?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Top 5 WWE DVDs:

1. The Rise and Fall of ECW
2. CM Punk: Best in the World
3. Shawn Michaels: Heartbreak and Triumph
4. Stone Cold: The Bottom Line on the Most Popular Superstar of All Time
5. Tombstone: The History of the Undertaker


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

DISC 1

Documentary:

The Birth of Attitude

Entrance Music

D-Generation X

Austin vs. McMahon

Long-Arching Stories

Innovations

New Demographic

Critics

Expansion

Comedy

Wealth of Talent

The World Was Watching

Watershed Period


Jim Ross interviews Goldust & Marlena
Raw – Nov 3, 1997

Steve Austin Throws the InterContinental Championship Off A Bridge
Raw – Dec 15, 1997

Soldier of Love
Raw – May 4, 1998

Mr McMahon Presents Mankind with the WWE Hardcore Championship
Raw – Nov 2, 1998

Jim Ross Interviews Triple H
Sunday Night Heat – July 25, 1999

An Evening At The Friendly Tap
SmackDown! – Jan 20, 2000

Mae Young and the Acolyte Protection Agency
SmackDown! – Jan 27, 2000

“The Jug Band”
Judgment Day 2000

Triple H Trains Trish Stratus
SmackDown! – July 27, 2000

Edges Totally Awesome Birthday
Raw – Oct 30, 2000

The Rocks Message to His Hell in a Cell Opponents
Raw – Dec 4, 2000

GTV

DISC 2

Mike Tyson Joins DX
Raw – Mar 2, 1998

A New Beginning For D-Generation X
Raw – March 30, 1998

Sable vs. “Marvelous” Marc Mero
Raw – May 11, 1998

Nation of Degeneration
Raw – July 6, 1998

Brawl for All Match
Bart Gunn vs. “Dr Death” Steve Williams
Raw – July 27, 1998

Four Corners Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
The Undertaker & Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kane & Mankind vs. The New Age Outlaws vs. The Rock & Owen Hart
Raw – Aug 10, 1998

Lions Den Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Owen Hart
SummerSlam 1998

Finals of WWE Championship Tournament
The Rock vs. Mankind
Survivor Series 1998

The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Stone Cold Steve Austin
Raw – Dec 7, 1998

Austin Gives The Corporation A Beer Bath
Raw – March 22, 1999

The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
Raw – June 28, 1999

The Debut of Y2J
Raw – Aug 9, 1999

DISC 3

(Content still to be confirmed. Check back with WWEDVDNews.com later.)





Special Features
(Expected Best Buy Exclusive)

GTV – Al Snow & Head

Mae Young Gives Birth
Raw – Feb 28, 2000

WWE Womens Championship Match
Lita vs. Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley
Raw – June 12, 2000

The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz
Raw – July 17, 2000

BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES

King of Kings Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Triple H vs. Owen Hart
Raw – June 29, 1998

The Oddities w/ Insane Clown Posse vs. The Headbangers
Raw – Sept 28, 1998

The Truth About Sammy
Raw – Jan 18, 1999

The Unholy Union of Stephanie McMahon & The Undertaker
Raw – April 26, 1999

The Rock vs. Val Venis
SmackDown – Oct 7, 1999

Survivor Series Elimination Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Kane & Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, X-Pac & The New Age Outlaws
SmackDown – Nov 4, 1999

WWE Hardcore Championship Match
Al Snow vs. Crash Holly
SmackDown – June 29, 2000

The Hardy Boyz & Lita vs. Perry Saturn, Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko
SmackDown – Nov 30, 2000

Chris Jericho vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian
Raw – Dec 25, 2000


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The-Rock-Says said:


> It's Obis. He's HHH biggest mark.
> 
> Whatever happened to that prick?


Probably decided to fuck off crying after HHH lost at Summerslam.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Platt said:


> DISC 1
> 
> Documentary:
> 
> ...


Looks solid.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thoughts on favorite Bam Bam Bigelow matches? Just been remeniscing about old skool stuff when i was a kid, used to like him, great big man.


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Thoughts on favorite Bam Bam Bigelow matches? Just been remeniscing about old skool stuff when i was a kid, used to like him, great big man.


His ECW match with Taz at Living Dangerously 98 was cool, also vs Bret Hart at KOTR 93 is a great match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Parison Sapphire said:


> His ECW match with Taz at Living Dangerously 98 was cool, also vs Bret Hart at KOTR 93 is a great match.


Yeah, love his match with Bret, the only Bam Bam ECW match i have seen was a Death Match at ECW Heatwave 98 , ill have to check out the Living Dangerously match (pretty sure it's on the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD) (Y)


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I remember Bam Bam vs RVD being good in ECW. probably wouldn't like it now, but at the time I loved it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AE set actually surprises me. I'm sure it was "confirmed" a while ago that there was no doc. So I'm happy there is one because it means less shitty segments we've seen a billion times thrown on there (thought there are still some of those lol). Match wise for the most part looks fun. Not nearly enough 2000 for my liking, but there is still disc 3 to be announced.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Thoughts on favorite Bam Bam Bigelow matches? Just been remeniscing about old skool stuff when i was a kid, used to like him, great big man.


Check out anything he did with Bret Hart or the 1-2-3 Kid. And of course his TDM with Jerry Lawler in 86.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tatanka/Bam Bam Vs 123 Kid & Bob Holly from RR 95 is an awesome tag match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Damn, you still not finished? Mine was downloaded a few weeks ago but not only that, I also downloaded all the 07 episodes up to Benoit's death. Now I'm almost finished with all the 06 PPVs and started downloading all the ECW episodes from that year just to complete the whole thing.


I had stopped it for a couple weeks because I was living at school and they're strict with torrenting and stuff.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Attitude Era DISC 3

European & Intercontinental Championship Match
DLo Brown vs. Jeff Jarrett
SummerSlam 1999

Buried Alive Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
The Rock & Mankind vs. The Undertaker & Big Show
SmackDown! – Sept 9, 1999

Stone Cold & Jim Ross vs. Triple H & Chyna
Raw – Oct 11, 1999

Boss Mans Sympathy for Big Shows Dad
Raw – Nov 18, 1999

The Wedding of Stephanie McMahon & Andrew “Test” Martin
Raw – Nov 29, 1999

The Godfather & DLo Brown vs. Too Cool
SmackDown – Jan 27, 2000

WWE Hardcore Championship Match
Hardcore Holly vs. Crash Holly
Raw – March 27, 2000

WWE European Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero
Raw – April 3, 2000

Steel Cage Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship
Rikishi vs. Val Venis
Fully Loaded 2000

Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match for the World Tag Team Championship
Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz
SummerSlam 2000

Hell in A Cell Match for the WWE Championship
Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Undertaker vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi
Armageddon 2000

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-the-attitude-era-dvd/29902/


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> Stone Cold & Jim Ross vs. Triple H & Chyna
> Raw – Oct 11, 1999


um


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Im thinking they must be saving HHH v Rock Iron man and HHH v Jericho last man standing for a Trip DVD, can't believe they stil havnt made it to DVD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Thoughts on favorite Bam Bam Bigelow matches? Just been remeniscing about old skool stuff when i was a kid, used to like him, great big man.


Hey I was gonna mention him right now via all the 90's WWF stuff I've been watching today. Miss the guy. Such an underrated worker, imo. As for some favorite matches, well, I know he had stellar chemistry with Bret Hart. Also recall a really awesome match vs Typhoon sometime during the 90's too. Oh and he had one of the most fun matches I've ever seen vs HAK, of all people, at Spring Stampede 1999.

Attitude Era sets looks like a buy. If just for the documentary & Owen vs Shamrock LIONS DEN on DVD.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Disappointment with the AE set. Nothing bad about it but it was exactly what I expected, just lazy choices when there are so many awesome things that nobody besides 15-20k saw before in their archives. They just threw the standard material in the set. The documentary should still be great(Unless it's manipulative and not objective to secretly accomplish something)and there are some great matches and segments. Nice to see the Rock/Venis match from October 1999 on the set, an awesome TV match that was always memorable for me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Cena on Raw was great for what it was. They've reached the point now where their moves blend into each other and come off as one huge sequence lol. Great chemistry as always but they were obviously holding back. No idea about this triple threat on Snuday. I think Cena's there to eat the pin tbh. Imagine that lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So when is Peter Blake going to get onto Vince RE: The Attitude Era DVD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> Buried Alive Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
> The Rock & Mankind vs. The Undertaker & Big Show
> SmackDown! – Sept 9, 1999


Yeah, I'll be getting the AE set. Maybe. Depends on who becomes the new distributor for WWE DVD's in Europe I guess .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im sure hoping the UK side gets sorted by Spring latest, if not i may have to go back to the R1 route.

Why can;t they just stick with SV FFS....


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Punk/Cena on Raw was great for what it was. They've reached the point now where their moves blend into each other and come off as one huge sequence lol. Great chemistry as always but they were obviously holding back. No idea about this triple threat on Snuday. I think Cena's there to eat the pin tbh. Imagine that lol.


They had a match yesterday? ...and Cena won? Great. Now "PUNK SHUD B DA ONLY GUY CENA CAN NEVER GET DA BETTER OF AZ A RIVAL!!!!1111" can fuck off, even though it should've last year after SummerSlam when Cena beat him for the #1 contender spot.


----------



## HankHill_85 (Aug 31, 2011)

*"Attitude Era" DVD Content Listing*

I'm not sure if this is posted somewhere else, but I haven't found it so I'm just reposting.

I checked out the content and match listing for the Attitude Era DVD/Bluray. I gotta say, it looks pretty damn good! If I had to lodge just one complaint (and this is the IWC, so it's standard protocol), it'd be that I wish they included the main event from the highest-rated Raw in the entire Era - the 8.1 rated May 10, 1999 tag team match with Austin, Rock & Vince vs Taker, HHH and Shane.

Anyway, the content...

Disc 1

Documentary:

The Birth of Attitude

Entrance Music

D-Generation X

Austin vs. McMahon

Long-Arching Stories

Innovations

New Demographic

Critics

Expansion

Comedy

Wealth of Talent

The World Was Watching

Watershed Period

Jim Ross interviews Goldust & Marlena
Raw – Nov 3, 1997

Steve Austin Throws the InterContinental Championship Off A Bridge
Raw – Dec 15, 1997

Soldier of Love
Raw – May 4, 1998

Mr McMahon Presents Mankind with the WWE Hardcore Championship
Raw – Nov 2, 1998

Jim Ross Interviews Triple H
Sunday Night Heat – July 25, 1999

An Evening At The Friendly Tap
SmackDown! – Jan 20, 2000

Mae Young and the Acolyte Protection Agency
SmackDown! – Jan 27, 2000

“The Jug Band”
Judgment Day 2000

Triple H Trains Trish Stratus
SmackDown! – July 27, 2000

Edges Totally Awesome Birthday
Raw – Oct 30, 2000

The Rocks Message to His Hell in a Cell Opponents
Raw – Dec 4, 2000

GTV

Disc 2

Mike Tyson Joins DX
Raw – Mar 2, 1998

A New Beginning For D-Generation X
Raw – March 30, 1998

Sable vs. “Marvelous” Marc Mero
Raw – May 11, 1998

Nation of Degeneration
Raw – July 6, 1998

Brawl for All Match
Bart Gunn vs. “Dr Death” Steve Williams
Raw – July 27, 1998

Four Corners Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
The Undertaker & Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kane & Mankind vs. The New Age Outlaws vs. The Rock & Owen Hart
Raw – Aug 10, 1998

Lions Den Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Owen Hart
SummerSlam 1998

Finals of WWE Championship Tournament
The Rock vs. Mankind
Survivor Series 1998

The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Stone Cold Steve Austin
Raw – Dec 7, 1998

Austin Gives The Corporation A Beer Bath
Raw – March 22, 1999

The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
Raw – June 28, 1999

The Debut of Y2J
Raw – Aug 9, 1999

Disc 3

European & Intercontinental Championship Match
DLo Brown vs. Jeff Jarrett
SummerSlam 1999

Buried Alive Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
The Rock & Mankind vs. The Undertaker & Big Show
SmackDown! – Sept 9, 1999

Stone Cold & Jim Ross vs. Triple H & Chyna
Raw – Oct 11, 1999

Boss Mans Sympathy for Big Shows Dad
Raw – Nov 18, 1999

The Wedding of Stephanie McMahon & Andrew “Test” Martin
Raw – Nov 29, 1999

The Godfather & DLo Brown vs. Too Cool
SmackDown – Jan 27, 2000

WWE Hardcore Championship Match
Hardcore Holly vs. Crash Holly
Raw – March 27, 2000

WWE Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero
Raw – April 3, 2000

Steel Cage Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship
Rikishi vs. Val Venis
Fully Loaded 2000

Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match for the World Tag Team Championship
Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz
SummerSlam 2000

Hell in A Cell Match for the WWE Championship
Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Undertaker vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi
Armageddon 2000

Special Features

(Expected Best Buy Exclusive)

GTV – Al Snow & Head

Mae Young Gives Birth
Raw – Feb 28, 2000

WWE Womens Championship Match
Lita vs. Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley
Raw – June 12, 2000

The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz
Raw – July 17, 2000

Blu-Ray Exclusives

King of Kings Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Triple H vs. Owen Hart
Raw – June 29, 1998

The Oddities w/ Insane Clown Posse vs. The Headbangers
Raw – Sept 28, 1998

The Truth About Sammy
Raw – Jan 18, 1999

The Unholy Union of Stephanie McMahon & The Undertaker
Raw – April 26, 1999

The Rock vs. Val Venis
SmackDown – Oct 7, 1999

Survivor Series Elimination Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Kane & Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, X-Pac & The New Age Outlaws
SmackDown – Nov 4, 1999

WWE Hardcore Championship Match
Al Snow vs. Crash Holly
SmackDown – June 29, 2000

The Hardy Boyz & Lita vs. Perry Saturn, Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko
SmackDown – Nov 30, 2000

Chris Jericho & The Dudley Boyz vs. Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian
Raw – Dec 25, 2000

That Jericho/Eddie match description has to be a mistake, because that was a European Title match the night after WM16.

Everyone gonna step over their grandma to go and pick this up?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Brock Lesnar : Here Comes the Pain (Collector's Edition)*

*Disc One : Documentary*

I suck at reviewing documentaries, I'm not going to try and hide that. For this review I'm going to focus more on the matches (why else would you buy this?) , but I'll give some quick hit thoughts on the documentary because well.... That's what I do. The documentary was , in short, DATED. If you watched this a few years ago, you'd have to adore it because of the simplistic style and concise points. Nothing overly complicated here, has the early mix of kayfabe-non kayfabe input from various personalities, and Brock is ALWAYS an enigma to watch on the small screen, so you get what you want here if you're a Brock fan. 

However, there's NO new material here giving insight into Brock's UFC/NFL career, as well as his WWE return in 2012, so for that I can't give it a great rating. It doesn't FAIL by any means, but honestly this is what it is, and you know what you're getting yourself into when you buy this. The Disc one extras half make-up for the documentary with Lesnar's debut and re-debut in 2012 featured. The hardcore Brock fan will love this disc for sure as I did, but the casual fan will probably look at this disc and say "LOLZ DAT DOCUMENTARY IS OLD. 3/10". I like it, but that's probably because BROCK is probably in my top 4 all time favorites ever.

*6/10 (INCLUDING EXTRAS)*

*Disc Two : Matches*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Leviathan (OVW, 7/28/01)_

OMGZ IT'Z BORK VS TISTA! Just for that fact alone makes this match a novelty, but there is literally no reason for this match to be on the DVD except for novelty alone. These two have some pretty bad attempts at chain wrestling throughout and you can clearly tell that Lesnar was 8657654674X ahead of Big Dave at this point in his career. The power sequences were pretty good at this one, but Batista wasn't fluid enough in the ring at this point to sustain a really good match, even out of a green but highly athletic Lesnar. What you'd probably expect from two rookies at this point. Not horrible by any means, but definitely not the best.

** 3/4*

_The Minnesota Stretching Crew Vs. Prototype & Rico Constantino (OVW, 11/10/01)_

Benja-Brock was actually a pretty awesome team, wish they had more work together in the E' because they seemed to really click in this one. To see Cena teaming with a guy like Rico makes me LOL knowing what paths both careers would take in the future. This gets pretty exciting when Bork and Shelton break out their crazy double team moves while Cena and Rico take it like two dollar whores. Not an overly long match at all, but for a dark match this was pretty solid. You could tell that Benjamin and Brock were getting better and that they worked pretty well together. Another "it is what it is" match however, but it was nice to see the MSC on a DVD set. FUN.

*** 1/4*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Jeff Hardy (Backlash, 4/21/02)_

Jeff Hardy gets squashed ? OH. FUCK. YES. I love this match simply because I'm a mark for anything anti-Hardy, but I'll give Jeff credit for this ; He can make monsters look even more monstrous better than anybody else in the business save for somebody like Rey (see Great American Bash 2007 against Umaga). Hardy does a great job of selling just how much of a beast Lesnar is to the crowd, which they instantly buy. Lesnar's offense is pretty simple here, but every move he does carries more aggression than the average worker, making this match a must see. Jeff gets SOME offense in here to not completely destroy his career, but at the end of the day this is one of my favorite squashes ever due to who's involved and how awesome it truly is. SQUASH 101 baby, this is how it should be done. The most AWSUMEZZZTTT match eva.

*** 1/2*

_ Brock Lesnar Vs. Rob Van Dam (King of the Ring, 6/23/02)_

This was the first Lesnar match that I ever saw I do believe, so I hold it in high regard even for nostalgia purposes. I also believe that this AGAIN is the prototypical short match between a veteran and a guy you're trying to get over but not overexpose. The styles clash here was a thing of beauty, as Van Dam has some of the most unorthodox offense you'll ever see in a Wrestling ring, while Lesnar's hybrid of power and mat wrestling to keep Van Dam grounded is excellent. They kind of stay in "protect" mode the entire time while never shifting to that final gear, but boy did this get Lesnar over HUGE. King of the Ring 2002 was a HORRIBLE PPV, but this was a shining light in a sea of terrible matches. Not GREAT by any means, but good enough and fun enough to sustain a decent rating

*** 3/4*

_Brock Lesnar & The Undertaker Vs. Rob Van Dam & Ric Flair (Raw, 7/15/02)_

This match can be summed up in one word : FUN. Just look at who you have in this match and you'll see exactly how this is an example of just a pure fun TV match with some great action. You have Flair and Van Dam selling for two big time heels, with the heels just pummeling them over and over again. Flair's performance in this is great, especially his interactions with Lesnar as Lesnar no-sells Flair's chops better than anybody in the business ever has (including STING). The Undertaker is great in this as well (He's the king of FUN matches IMO afterall) , just destroying Van Dam and Flair to the point that when they finally get some offense in, the fans are going crazy and it actually means something. If you're a fan of either guy in this match, or you just wanna see a good TV match, check this one out

*****

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Hulk Hogan (SmackDown, 8/8/02) _

This is "how to book a monster 101" down to a tee. This was Hogan's definite best job of putting anybody over, as Lesnar basically went from new monster to "HOLY SHIT THIS GUY COULD BE THE FACE OF THE COMPANY" in about one night. The breakdown of how this match works is a piece of art, as all the pieces fit together so perfectly to make this awesome. For instance ; This is one of Heyman's best managerial performances, screaming to Lesnar that "HE'S DIFFERENT! HE'S HULK HOGAN" , REEEEAAALLLYYY selling how great Hogan has been over the years, so to see Lesnar crank that bearhug on Hogan is just insane to see and leaves you saying "oh my god". It's also like Hogan saved all of his athletic prowess that he had left for this one match, as he has a pretty damn great counter of the F-5 that's awesome in it's own right. The 3 punches, big boot and leg drop doesn't work? Hogan doubles it up. Just smart thinking and great booking like that tells a great story, and is easily Lesnar's "coming out party" as a storyteller, and one of Hogan's best matches of the decade.

**** 1/2*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. The Rock (SummerSlam, 8/25/02)_

This match is Wrestling's version of CRANK, with some good psychology thrown in to make it look absolutely awesome. Right from the get go this match is all about adrenaline, with Rocky running to the ring only to get manhandled by the monster Lesnar. These two just go back and forth the entire time, with the pacing being some of the greatest I've seen in any match... EVER. I'd actually go out on a limb and say this is a top 5 Rock performance, as he's really one of the only people in Wrestling history who can keep up with Lesnar's athleticism, and that's what this match really is, an athletic showcase with two HUGE men showing how fluidly they can move in the ring. The kip-up spot was pretty great, as well as the awesome end sequence. We all knew Brock was going over here, but that didn't damper the match at all for me, as these two kept me emotionally invested in the match and I hope we get a highly athletic rematch in the near future. A big time main event between two all-time greats that actually delivers in every department imaginable. What more could you really ask for ? I have it as top 5-6 SS main event currently, and Lesnar's first classic.

***** 1/4*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Randy Orton (SmackDown, 9/5/02)_

Another top-notch quality squash from the monster Lesnar here. Now that he has the credibility, he can afford to give the young Orton a little offense here to spark his career a little bit. Lesnar is the king of the squash, and this very entertaining match is no exception. Not much to say about this one at all, just a short but fun squash match that you can watch at any time during the day and just enjoy.

*** 1/4*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. The Undertaker (Unforgiven, 9/22/02)_

These two were made for each other in the ring. Besides Shawn Michaels, I truly do believe that Brock Lesnar meshes with Taker better than anybody else in WWE history. This is another one of those matches that goes up in value 2X when you see the amazing pre-match video packages (all of Lesnar's big time video packages are included in the documentary and it's fucking awesome), but what we have here is a classic bout with some fantastic psychology from both men. The rib work in this is actually excellent, as are the takedowns and very MMA-esque action between the two. Alot of people actually have a problem with this match and I really don't know why, is it the ending ? Because the ending is essentially Ground Zero PT. II , except I believe this match is better than the GZ 97 match by a fair margin. The storytelling and ESPECIALLY the in-ring psychology is just NAILED here and it's the perfect set-up to Hell in a Cell. A completely underrated match in the careers of both Lesnar and Taker

***** 1/4*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. The Undertaker (No Mercy, 10/20/02)_

(ripped from a HUGE individual match review for my HIAC project) This is a heavily debated match amongst reviewers for a certain reason, but I'll get into that later. I loved the story heading into this match as Brock at this point is an unstoppable monster, but couldn't manage to knock off the Undertaker in a great match at Unforgiven. In retaliation Brock broke the Undertakers hand twice, so this cell match was made. Taker is wearing a cast here and is obviously allowed to use it as a weapon, so that adds an interesting dynamic to the match. When this begins we get a beautiful MMA style exchange between these two, and then Taker just begins HAMMERING (and I mean very very hard) Brock with the cast with some very stiff shots. The facial expressions and body language in this match is just awesome (as well as Heyman's screams. Brock begins to just eye the cast, and starts to just work the hand and arm of Undertaker to perfection, even tying his arm to the cell and nailing the broken hand with a chair several times (btw, Heyman's blade job is INSANE, crazy that it isn't even the biggest bladejob of the night). The intensity is just off the charts here, with Heyman screaming in Undertaker's ear "YOU'RE GONNA DIE". Brock then proceeds to rip the cast off, finally finding an opening to take advantage of.

Now here's where many people find to be the fatal flaw with this match; Undertaker's selling of the broken hand. Even though his hand has been worked on and broken, Undertaker still uses his hand for strikes and even a chokeslam at one point. People fucking hate this idea, and believe that since Taker's hand is broken, he should act like it. Here's the problem with that argument: this match is so full of intensity and hatred, it's understandable if adrenaline kicks in and a person eventually hits a "threshold" for their pain and has the ability to withstand any further damage to a certain area of the body. Another reason why this criticism sucks..He's the UNDERTAKER! He gets more or less buried alive and set on fire all the time, and I know this is the Biker Undertaker, but it's still the same guy...Anyways as you can tell I have no problem with Taker's selling at all, and I actually believe that it adds to the match instead of taking away from it. This is just turning into an all out war here, with Taker getting nailed with the steps and breaking out one of the absolute SICKEST BLADE JOBS that I have ever seen. I mean, his face is almost like a faucet here.

This is so back and forth, an interesting dynamic that sets it apart from another all time great cell match (the original). Taker just won't give up, broken hand and busted face aside, and I believe that gives us a new dynamic to the story... Even though Undertaker is past the point of feeling pain, Brock is STILL getting the best of him, and that is putting him over than anyone else ever could. We get a last ride and a fucking FANTASTIC tombstone reversal into an F-5 to end this. This match made Brock Lesnar, I don't care what anybody says, after this match Brock Lesnar was considered the top dog in the WWE. This had amazing intensity, fantastic back and forth action, diverse offense and great psychology, not to mention an amazing ending with some great near falls. An all-time classic in every sense of the word, and one of the biggest wars to take place inside the squared circle.

***** 3/4*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Team Angle (SmackDown, 2/27/03)_

Technical prowess bitch! This match seems unconventional (how many handicap matches are actually worth watching?) , but when you actually sit down and watch it, it features some pretty fucking great mat exchanges between some really great technical wrestlers. You can see Benjamin and Lesnar's great chemistry in this one (as I bang my head off the closet door wondering why these two never had a 20 minute long match) , as we get a series of amateur moves with a nice Kurt story thrown in on the side. Just a good little TV match with some decent wrestling, you can't really complain with this, can you?

*** 1/4*

*DISC RATING : 8/10*

*Disc Three : Matches*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Kurt Angle (WrestleMania XIX, 3/30/03)_

Earlier I said that The Rock was one of the only athletes who could hang with Lesnar in the ring. The number one guy, however is Kurt Angle (who is the superior mat wrestler of the two, mind you). These two have a series of matches that is almost universally adored, and this is easily the most high profile of all of them (it IS the main event to the greatest PPV of all time, that should tell you everything you need to know). The mat exchanges in this match and the mat wrestling that takes place is absolutely drool worthy, and while this isn't the refined mat-classic like Benoit-Angle from earlier in the year, it plays well to the whole "Lesnar is a beast but he finally meets a guy who can out wrestle him" story. Angle should get a ton of credit for this one, as he was basically HALF DEAD and falling apart heading into the match. Brock throws him around quite a bit as we get some really beautiful suplexes and alot of that old school intensity that we used to see in the early 80s.

This was an extremely worthy Wrestlemania main event and an all time classic, which is AMAZING considering the absolute fail that was Lesnar's attempted shooting star press (that nearly killed HIM as well). The near falls and finisher fest towards the end was great, the slow mat based build was great, and it showed that world that WRESTLING can sell and triumph at the end of the biggest show of them all. IMO it's in the middle of the pack of their 3 big notable matches, but since they're all classics I can't really complain. Lesnar's amazing first year comes full circle against a man who put on one of the most brave performances in wrestling history in Kurt Angle.

***** 1/4*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. John Cena (Backlash, 4/27/03)_

This match is extremely notable due to it being John Cena's first high profile match basically EVER, and with who else ? The man who would work in one of the best WWE matches EVER with Cena 9 years in the future. I've heard rumors about this match explaining why it's so stiff (and it IS, believe me) , basically stating that Lesnar never liked Cena or some bullshit like that. It's totally believeable, as both men take a fucking POUNDING here. I love the Lesnar-Cena chemistry as they're both big strong athletic motherfuckers who can just hit each other with everything they have and get the crowd crazy. 

The psychology is pretty damn solid. Lesnar has a bandage covering his forehead, so what does Cena do ? HE ATTACKS THE FOREHEAD, splitting Lesnar wide fucking open. That is how you do it my friends. The action is slow and plodding at points with no real substance involved, but besides those few sequences, this is ALL stiff, brutal gold that shows you what can happen when you take two young, hungry, athletic guys and put them in there for the biggest title in wrestling history. Fantastic match and the best in Cena's young career (until Vengeance of course  )

**** 1/4*

_60-Minute Ironman Match: Brock Lesnar Vs. Kurt Angle (SmackDown, 9/18/03)_

OH FUCK YES. I knew I was going to get to this match at some point and I was legitimately excited to do so. The layers that this match contains only serves as a reminder that when you mix great wrestling with great storytelling and wrap it all up with distinct characterization, psychology, and brilliant pacing, you have everything it takes to produce an all time classic match. Let;s just start by looking at Lesnar's game plan ; he can't outwrestle Angle, so he uses a chair to wear Angle down and gain an early advantage, although he puts himself down a fall in the process. Lesnar is spot on during this sequence with devious facial expressions that make me wonder how insane he truly is. Angle plays the worn down babyface role well here, as he can't put his wrestling skills to use while depleted against this MONSTER.

The rest of the match is basically Angle playing catchup against Lesnar, but it's done so in such a brilliantly laid out match that it would make Randy Savage proud. Lesnar uses his physical prowess to throw around Angle, while Angle tries his best not to get desperate and "weather the storm". It's not until Angle starts to feel the heat that he breaks out alot of his big time moves to get Lesnar down. There's some nonsensical Kurt stuff in here, like his top rope throw and his random moonsault, but that's literally the ONLY Kurt nonsense we get in this one, as this relies more on characterization and WRESTLING then anything else.

The ending sequence is one of the best ever with Lesnar BARELY hanging on and taking the title due to his extremely genius but devious gameplan. I'm convinced that this is the best Ironman match ever, as while Rocky-HHH was more of a highly flashy classic that had a ton of style and substance, this one is ALL substance with bits of style mashed in. A fitting end to one of wrestling's classic trilogies, and the best Lesnar-Angle match IMO. *Best Ironman Match Ever.*

***** 1/2*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown, 12/11/03)_

Let's see, the best monster heel in WWE history against the best "babyface in peril" the WWE has ever seen..... Yeah I'd say this match is PRETTY GOOD. Lesnar is such a dick in this match making fun of Rey's shortcomings, with Lesnar taking his mind off the match and fucking up, allowing Rey to gain the advantage with his quick style. This match has a very simple story ; if Lesnar catches Rey, he'll fucking RIP HIM LIMB FROM LIMB. You actually FEAR for Rey's life in this one knowing what Lesnar will do to him if Rey's caught. However, the sadistic motherfucker in all of us wants Rey to be caught just to see what resounding move he will be caught in. The Payoff is magnificent, with one of the craziest powerbombs you'll ever see, coupled with a nice mini-story of Lesnar "tapping out" that you'll enjoy. AMAZING by TV standards, and another match in the history of Rey and Lesnar that's AWESOME. A PPV match between these two would be ****+ easily IMO.

**** 1/2*

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Big Show (SmackDown, 6/12/03)_

Show and Lesnar have this strange chemistry that I can't really explain (their best match being the JD 03 classic of course) , but this match is no exception to that rule, as while it lasts the match is downright awesome. These two just toss each other around like two brothers for the duration of the match, and we end off with perhaps the most memorable ending to a match EVER. Remembered for the ending obviously, but even though this was a weaker Show-Lesnar match, it was fun as fuck while it lasted, and gets extra points for the bad ass ending. ANOTHER awesome Lesnar TV match (how many of these does the guy have?)

*****

_Brock Lesnar Vs. Goldberg (WrestleMania XX, 3/14/04)_

AH, THIS MATCH! I hate when people give this match a DUD, because it's truly one of the more entertainingly bad matches out there. The fans honestly don't give this match a chance at all, which I prefer to be honest, because I'd rather have a highly entertaining match to watch like this, than perhaps a average ** 1/4 encounter that these two probably would have had on any given day. Easily Lesnar's worst match, but I can't say too much about this that hasn't already been said. *I LOVE THIS MATCH* as it's almost like HHH-Steiner for me. Rather entertaining and bad than dull, boring , and forgettable. STARZ for entertainment.

***

*DISC THREE RATING : 8/10*

_Closing Thoughts_

This is probably the most FUN I've had with a DVD in quite some time, as I'm a huge Lesnar mark and I adore practically everything he does. This DVD would be up there for me with HHH : King of Kings and the Macho Madness DVD as a personal favorite of mine. I gave the disc one 6/10 , but when you're a big Lesnar fan it's more or less like 8/10 so I don't really care about the rating to that very much.

The most important aspect of this DVD is the match listing on Discs 2 and 3. In here we get some really ENTERTAINING matches, coupled with some all time great matches that really showcase how Lesnar could basically get an entertaining match out of anyone. This just makes me really excited to purchase PLATT's Lesnar comp , because I NEED to see every Lesnar match damnit. Personal preference I would give the DVD 9/10 , but I'm trying to be unbiased here so let me throw this out there. HOPEFULLY THIS WAS ENJOYABLE DAMNIT ! On to the Rey Mysterio/Shawn Michaels SC :hhh

*7.5/10*


----------



## septurum (Mar 16, 2009)

*Re: "Attitude Era" DVD Content Listing*

Already on my Christmas list.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sucks that the doc isn't up to date but I'll still probably pick it up for the matches that I don't have.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> They had a match yesterday? ...and Cena won? Great. Now "PUNK SHUD B DA ONLY GUY CENA CAN NEVER GET DA BETTER OF AZ A RIVAL!!!!1111" can fuck off, even though it should've last year after SummerSlam when Cena beat him for the #1 contender spot.


Nobody counts those since Punk got distracted both times 8*D

Another solid TV match from them. Add it to the list. They're so perfect for each other.

Last time I watched BROCK vs Cena from Backlash I noticed some flaws during it. Didn't think the match was as strong as I used to, but I still like it for what it was. Didn't understand the whole beating BROCK down thing then slapping on the chinlock w/body scissors to completely kill the pace of the match within the final 5 minutes. If anything that phase should have been in the early going or right when BROCK's cut was re-opened. **1/2 imo.

Now Taker vs Cena from Vengeance...that's awesome. :mark:


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Finally got around to spending some of my paycheque from last month and I've ordered the following;

Wrestlemania 25
Wrestlemania 27
Wrestlemania 28
CM Punk set
Lesnar set
Breaking the Code
Ladder match 2

I bought the Wrestlemanias because it means I've finally completed my Mania collection from the first one I ever watched (17-28) and I have watched barely anything from those shows (I fell asleep after the cell match at 28 and I've only seen the streak matches from the other 2 shows). 

I've also been after a few more superstar sets, so I figured I'd pick up ones for 3 of my favourite guys of all time and they seem to have good reviews all round, so I'm looking forward to getting stuck in!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Nobody counts those since Punk got distracted both times 8*D
> 
> Another solid TV match from them. Add it to the list. They're so perfect for each other.
> 
> ...


In that case, none of Punk's victories count either. 

And yeah, Brock/Cena has dropped for me to ***1/4. I had it at **** which was obviously way too much. The use of the rest-hold brings it down, it lasted over 2 minutes.

And yeah, Taker/Cena have some great chemistry. Their best matches are on Smackdown 03 & 04. (first one takes place weeks before SummerSlam and the latter is in June 24th I think)


----------



## girlcooties (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi everyone  So I have a question that I hope will end with a good result! My boyfriend has been talking about the monday night raw series between 1997-1999 and wishes he had copies of these! I don't know much about wrestling myself, but I want to fulfill this as a Christmas present for him. I'm sure you all are just like him, a huge wrestling fan; and this would be one of the best presents. So anyone have any idea how I can achieve this?! If not, I heard about attitude era dvd coming out? Could that be the closest I can get? 

Thanks


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> In that case, none of Punk's victories count either.


What u talkin' bout? Punk's Summerslam 2011 victory over Cena wasn't due to interference. 8*D:hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> In that case, none of Punk's victories count either.
> 
> And yeah, Brock/Cena has dropped for me to ***1/4. I had it at **** which was obviously way too much. The use of the rest-hold brings it down, it lasted over 2 minutes.
> 
> And yeah, Taker/Cena have some great chemistry. Their best matches are on Smackdown 03 & 04. (first one takes place weeks before SummerSlam and the latter is in June 24th I think)


I have to relive those matches. I know they're quality though. Especially the one from 2004 that was right before Great American Bash. I always said they had a match on TV that blew away every match on that PPV (yeah I remember being even better than Mysterio/Chavo & Eddie/JBL)


*WWF In Your House​*
1) Bret Hart vs Hakushi ~ ****


2) *Handicap Match*:
Razor Ramon vs Jeff Jarrett/The Roadie ~ ***


3) *King of the Ring Qualifying Match*:
Mabel vs Adam Bomb ~ DUD


4) *WWF Tag Team Championship*:
Owen Hart & Yokozuna(c) vs Billy Gunn & Bart Gunn ~ **


5) Bret Hart vs Jerry Lawler ~ *3/4


6) *WWF Championship*:
Diesel(c) vs Psycho Sid ~ DUD


*IYH Bonus Match #1*:
The Undertaker vs Kama ~ DUD

*IYH Bonus Match #2*:
Bam Bam Bigelow vs Tatanka ~ 1/2*​

Sort of a weird PPV. One half of the show actually delivered in giving matches that were worth seeing. Hart/Hakushi was GREAT, Handicap was good with nice psychology and the tag titles was solid although short. All worked. Then the other half is either flat out crap or booking circumstances hurt it OR both. Hart/Lawler was too short. Only real flaw behind it. I know their King of the Ring kiss my foot match that followed this was better. I wanted more though since they work so well together. The KOTR qualifer made ZERO sense. It was over in less than 2 minutes, wtf? As if the PPV wasn't running short already they slimmed that one down. We couldn't get an Undertaker match actually on the PPV, but Mabel can beat Adam Bomb in 1:53. Oh 1995. Main event was trash. Diesel can actually have a good match when he's working vs Bret, Shawn, or Taker. Much could be said the same for SID although I have place in my heart for Sid in thinking he's capable of a decent match with a decent opponent. Naive? Possibly. It was a dull, short affair with a bogus DQ finish that didn't do it any favors. Ending a match like that on TV is forgivable. Ending a PPV on a note like that to only build up to the next PPV (which was one of the big 5 at least) is dumb. Or at least make the DQ substantial to the story. 

Two bonus matches stunk. I wasn't expecting Taker to get much out of Kama. I'll always <3 Taker but dammit @ WWF sticking him against every big man ever to be in the company. Some worked and some didn't. This one didn't. At least it had a clean finish. 13 minutes was FAR too much for a match since Kama's "kill me now" bearhug phases weren't doing it for me. Bammer vs Tatanka was a letdown. Bigelow is great and Tatanka is a pretty solid cat. Went the route of a boring 90's weardown match by the heel until Bigelow was able to get the pinfall. Nothing more to note. Well, the way Triple B won was legit. He leaped off the top into a sunset flip to win. What an athlete.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Just got done watching the NWO - The Revolution Blu-Ray documentary. It's alright, nothing compared to the likes of the Austin, Punk or even The Rock documentaries but it's good for what it was. Overall, probably a 6/10. Just going to start watching the segments/matches now.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That Attitude Era segment/match list looks promising. Nothing is edited/watered down?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't be surprised if middle fingers end up blurred and swearing is bleeped. BUT TEH SCRATCH LOGO IS STILL THERE!!!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

> The huge success of WWE's CM Punk DVD and Blu-ray title, CM Punk- Best in the World, has meant that the WWE are planning to feature a follow on DVD set for 2014 with up to date stories and further detail into Punk's success.


WrestlingInc. F4W Newsletter stated this as well. 

Hm, too soon? What else can they do with it? Unless they have huge plans for Punk in the next two years.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> WrestlingInc. F4W Newsletter stated this as well.
> 
> Hm, too soon? What else can they do with it? Unless they have huge plans for Punk in the next two years.


My guess is that they want him to be the company's torch bearer for the next 5-7 years and are trying to entice him in any way possible not to retire after his current deal ends. This enticement includes all manner of DVDs, promotion, likely going over The Rock and/or Lesnar at some point, wrist-slapping after cold-cocking fans, etc. There is a dearth of genuine superstars under 35 in the company and they are going to do whatever they can to milk the ones they have until a new generation of talent arises (if it ever does).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan (SummerSlam 2006) - **3/4*
- Pretty average match. Hogan is on the offense far too much and works as the heel for no real reason with constant dirty tactics. He also looks like he can barely move which leads to Orton carrying the match despite selling for the majority of the 11 minutes it lasts. Crowd is well into the match since it's Hogan after all. After taking an RKO and getting his foot on the rope (a split second after the third count making Orton the technical winner!), Hogan hulks up and wins with his own variation of the "five moves of doom". I really don't understand why he needed to win this at all. But yeah, it just adds to Orton's legacy at only 32 as he has wrestled everyone there is to wrestle from the time he's been around except Stone Cold and he's done everything else that can be done in the business. And his haters still act like him being directionless in the past year means anything in comparison to his excellent run from 2003-2009.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan had hip surgery like RIGHT before that match. A lot of us wondered if he would even be able to work the match. Best thing about that program was the awful Orton Knows Best segment on RAW.

Rated RKO couldn't have come sooner for Randy in 2006. He was doing shit-all the moment he came back to RAW from his suspension. Then again, I guess that's fair.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Anyone seen Edge: You Think You Know Me? How's the documentary?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's good. I liked it. Covered most ground that you figured they would have. Including the Lita affair (seems to be a hot topic due to it's controversy)


----------



## StonecoldGoat (Oct 21, 2012)

Attitude era DVD made Me Nostalgic,Went Back and watched Judgement day 1998 Main Event.

Was a Decent Match,With Austin being the Referee.What Made The Attitude era stand-out was Its unpredictability.There Was An uncertainty To the ending of this match and that's what made that Era So successful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Summerslam 1997* - *WWF Championship*:
The Undertaker(c) vs Bret Hart ~ **3/4

*One Night Only* - *WWF Championship*:
Bret Hart(c) vs The Undertaker ~ **3/4​
These guys really don't know how to work that well against each other. Their matches go WAY too long, Bret works on Taker's legs for the vast majority only for it to never come back into play down the line, and things never really pick up during the matches. It's probably my biggest disappointment with two great, popular workers duking it out. Undertaker feeds off of Shawn much better. And Austin for Hart. Matches like this are why I can see some people had flaws with Hart's offense. Never been crazy about these matches.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

The Undertaker(c) vs Bret Hart - Summerslam 1997 ***3/4
Bret Hart(c) vs The Undertaker - One Night Only 1997 ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If only One Night Only was that good. Especially when they're the same type of match only with a different outcome.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> *Summerslam 1997* - *WWF Championship*:
> The Undertaker(c) vs Bret Hart ~ **3/4
> 
> *One Night Only* - *WWF Championship*:
> ...


I agree. Maybe the ratings are a little too harsh though, I don't know. 

But that's one thing that always bothered me in any Bret match. He works on the leg of his opponent for the whole match and it never has anything to do with the finish. 

When has Bret ever won a big match because of his leg work earlier in the match? He pinned Piper after countering the sleeper, he pinned Bigelow with the victory roll, he pinned Yoko after he fell off the top rope, he beat Diesel via small package, he beat Taker after HBKs chair shot, he beat Goldberg via screwjob. None of that has anything to do with working on their legs.

Maybe his matches with Flair and Benoit count. He beat them with a sharpshooter but I'm not sure whether or not he worked their legs that much since he was the babyface and sold for most of the match..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't think they're harsh. I've gone harsh on a rating or two before. Those matches were honestly "solid" at best. Which considering who was involved and the length they went, is a pretty weak curve.

I don't recall too much leg work vs Bigelow or Piper. Bammer was pretty dominate vs Bret @ KOTR. I think the work vs Diesel was there. At least at Survivor Series. That match was so grueling and had tons of ups & downs that I think even if he did abandon it, it was forgivable. I know I considering that one to be GREAT. 

The leg work vs Taker stood out to me simply because he only did it to ground him. That's it. Wasn't much of a prelude to the sharpshooter as it was a way to wear down the dead man and eat up a lot of time. Beating down the leg is counterproductive anyways. Sure, it damages the opponent, but the sharpshooter is a move that puts torque on the back more than it really demolishes the legs, minus the bind he puts them in. It always felt like he should use his backbreakers and russian leg sweeps, etc to work over the back to the point of when the sharpshooter was locked in, the opponent had no power left to even attempt to count/reach the ropes.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

HBK's entrance is the best thing about the match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Leg (or limb in general) work doesn't really ALWAYS have to pay off, I think. Sometimes Wrestler A will work Wrestler B's leg and Wrestler B can find ways to get around it and win without any pay off to the leg work. The leg work is sort of there for filler, yeah, but it's fun and effective filler to me. Bret would work the leg for some help with the sharpshooter (or in Diesel/Bigelow/any tall guy or fatasses case- to keep them off of their feet). He may not win with the Sharpshooter, but if we're supposed to take our delusional little views that wrestling is a real fight at any point, Bret working the leg-> going for the sharpshooter-> not winning with it, still makes sense. He tried to work the leg to wear his opponent down to win the match, but failed.

I don't even remember Bret working the leg that much anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He did against Taker. That's the only reference I brought up Bret's leg work to.

I'm not one to complain about that, but when it felts like OBVIOUS filler for a match, then I'm like "eh". Especially when the limb work isn't even interesting or the selling doesn't even really come back into play. I can't help but think of guys like Regal, Finlay, Benoit when it comes to work like that. From the points of giving the attack and selling. Oh, and Guerrero too. Immediately his debut match on Nitro vs Benoit comes to mind with this topic. Interesting arm work, quality selling, and it did come back into play for the finish.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well yeah if the leg work is outright boring then I completely understand not wanting it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which is exactly my opinion on it with those two matches.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't even remember Bret working the leg that much anyway.


With Bret there were really only two ways he would work a match. When he wrestled against a babyface, he worked on their legs. When he was the face he sold a leg injury for most of the match.

There are few exceptions like his match against Piper which had neither. That's one of the reasons why I enjoy this match so much. It told a great story without anything to just stretch out the match length.

Working on the leg is something a babyface shouldn't do. The live crowd does not like seeing that. When he faced Diesel and Taker, even when he was the babyface, he was booed for this tactic. 

On the other hand, his match against Austin absolutely needed Bret working on Austins knee. Austin just returned from a knee injury and Bret using a chair and everything to "cripple" the guy made the match work so well and helped the double turn get over with the crowd.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Leg (or limb in general) work doesn't really ALWAYS have to pay off, I think. Sometimes Wrestler A will work Wrestler B's leg and Wrestler B can find ways to get around it and win without any pay off to the leg work. The leg work is sort of there for filler, yeah, but it's fun and effective filler to me. Bret would work the leg for some help with the sharpshooter (or in Diesel/Bigelow/any tall guy or fatasses case- to keep them off of their feet). He may not win with the Sharpshooter, but if we're supposed to take our delusional little views that wrestling is a real fight at any point, Bret working the leg-> going for the sharpshooter-> not winning with it, still makes sense. He tried to work the leg to wear his opponent down to win the match, but failed.


I agree with this. I mean its great when the body of the match plays into the finish, not only because it feels like everything prior to it had purpose and meaning, but also because it comes off as smart and adds rhythm and flow to the match.

As you said though, the opponent may be able to work around the limbwork and as long as the limbwork is sold enough to convey some form of drama in that the opponent is noticeably struggling then I have no problems with the match shifting away from it. A good example might be the Ohtani vs El Samurai NJPW match. Ohtani makes the leg his focus but as the match progresses he attempts to use his signature offence but alters it towards the leg, e.g the springboard dropkick is directed to the leg rather than the back/upper body as it usually is. Ohtani also uses the leg as a point of escape and as a way to setup a signature move, such as kicking the leg and then immediately following up with the bridging full nelson suplex.

So long as the limbwork is either sold well enough or at least presented in a way that its not forgotten about and therefore rendered useless, it doesn't necessarily have to pay off in the finish. Though of course when it does it can really add to the overall quality of the match, but that's the case with any smartly structured match.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Was that HHH promo from heat that they listed the one that Rock ripped to shreds on PPV in 1999 ?


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Cliffy Byro said:


> Was that HHH promo from heat that they listed the one that Rock ripped to shreds on PPV in 1999 ?


Exactly


----------



## Sunset Boulevard (Nov 7, 2012)

*CM Punk DVD*

First things first I apologies if there is a thread already concerning this i must of missed it. But anyway I've just watched the CM Punk and I think its one of the best DVDs WWE has put out. I was surprised at the fact that so much non WWE footage was used and that they mentioned his matches with Samoa Joe. Its complete Non kayfabe style was fresh to see, where as other DVDs have been semi fictional and fact. I hope WWE release more DVDs this style.

Anyone else enjoy it? Or any thoughts on the documentary?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret Hart vs The Undertaker ONO 1997 : ***** 1/2*

Fucking ADORE this match and it's one of my favorites from both men, and it's the best match on one of the more stellar cards of all time. Yeah, the finish is kind of bullshit but I don't think it takes away from how awesome this is. Bret's last CLASSIC and Taker's best match... Up until about a month later when he wrestled in the greatest match of all time... So YEEEAHHHHH. 

Bret Hart vs The Undertaker SS 97 : ******

Love how well Bret and Shawn work with Taker but how bad they work with one another, probably the most unexplainable BAD chemistry ever


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Survivor Series 92 was good.

They legit disliked each other in 96-97 so bad chemistry isn't that hard to believe, imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret-Shawn SS 97 > > > Bret-Shawn SS 92

I still think to this day that the Survivor Series 1997 match is their best match together even though it's mired in controversy. ****** all the way for me. 

Still think Taker-Rock have perhaps the worst main event chemistry (one-on-one of course) ever and legit wouldn't but Wrestlemania XXIX or XXX if it was a featured match. Strange because Taker's one of the greatest ever and Rock isn't BAD by any means in the ring (not the greatest, but cha know). HHH has had his share of opponents with bad main event chemistry as well, believe me :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/Shawn don't have a single good match together.

Rock/Undertaker have a few. KOTR 99 and NWO 02 are both great. Wouldn't want a WM match between the two, but then again I wouldn't have expected HHH/Undertaker matches to be any good lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BUT WHAT ABOUT THEIR KOTR 2002 MATCH DAMNIT ?!?!?!?!?!

You can't POSSIBLY tell me that their 2002 CLASSIC wasn't an indicator of how AWESOME the Wrestlemania XXVII and XXVIII matches could be ? :hhh

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Cal ...... Top 3 most desired Taker Wrestlemania matches for XXIX ? Never heard your input on this (just automatically guessed Lesnar, Punk, and Cena) . Imagine if WWE trolls the shit out of us and has Taker-MIZ with Miz breaking the streak :vince


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Bret Hart vs The Undertaker ONO 1997 : ***** 1/2* Bret's last CLASSIC


I disagree

Bret/Benoit Owen tribute is his last classic imo


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

....FUCK


You're absolutely correct , and it's not because I never considered Benoit-Hart a classic (it's my overall 1999 MOTY FFS) , but rather because I just forgot it existed for some reason. I just though "BRET IN WCW ? SHIT." and moved on. I stand corrected .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> BUT WHAT ABOUT THEIR KOTR 2002 MATCH DAMNIT ?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> You can't POSSIBLY tell me that their 2002 CLASSIC wasn't an indicator of how AWESOME the Wrestlemania XXVII and XXVIII matches could be ? :hhh
> 
> SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Cal ...... Top 3 most desired Taker Wrestlemania matches for XXIX ? Never heard your input on this (just automatically guessed Lesnar, Punk, and Cena) . Imagine if WWE trolls the shit out of us and has Taker-MIZ with Miz breaking the streak :vince


What KOTR 2002 match? That never happened. YOU CAN'T MAKE ME REMEMBER IT.

Top 3 Undertaker WM matches for next year (or the year after if he misses):

Lesnar - Absolutely loving Lesnar's MMA style since he returned. With Undertaker incorporating some MMA stuff into his moveset over the years, and the fact he's probably better NOW at working big matches than he was in 02/03 when they last wrestled... I'd expect a damn classic from the two of them.

Punk - Recently watched their 09 series again and loved it a lot more than I did back in the day. Their 2010 match is fucking incredible and probably a top 10 match of the year and second best TV match of the year. Punk's new character demanding respect and shooting on people having having his big WWE Title run aka STREAK in a way would make for a perfect opponent against Undertaker at WM.

No idea about a 3rd guy. Like Undertaker/Sting, Undertaker/Cena just doesn't interest me that much. Yeah, Cena's hugely underrated a lot of the time as a worker, especially a big match worker, so they'd probably be able to have a great match, but I just don't CARE about Cena. His character died about 5 years ago. Now he's just a random guy in stupid fucking jorts making cheesy jokes and happens to have good matches most of the time .


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Yeah, not much else to remember from that run. He had 2 other matches with Benoit that I gave both I think *** 1/4, and those were probably his only WCW matches above ** 1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker and Rock have good chemistry, but they both have many other guys they have better chemistry with. I thought their matches at KOTR, NWO, and the Raw match they had in 1998 were all at the very least good. They also had a match in 2000 that Taker ended up winning in the build up to Unforgiven, but I'd need to re-watch the match to judge it. 

Taker and Austin had some odd chemistry. They had a couple of awesome matches (FL 99 and JD 01), but besides that their matches generally are very boring and uninteresting contests imo. Summerslam 1998 is very nostalgic for me, and it's a good match imo, but disappointing considering the hype and build up the match got. Their Over the Edge 99 match sucked from what I remember, the buried alive match was nothing special, and same thing for the Raw match in 99 where Austin won back the title. I know they had a PPV match in 1997 as well and a few matches around/before that, but can't say I really remember any of them.

Never thought Taker and HHH's chemistry to be honest was on the money either. I do think their WM17 and WM28 were excellent matches, as was the finish of the WWE Title EC in 2009, and the WM27 was very good, but to me, it just didn't feel like they meshed as well as they should've generally (of course the people that put the WM27 and WM28 matches at ****1/2+ each would disagree, but whatever). KOTR 02 was of course terrible, but the Raw match they had that year that HHH won and the UK PPV one I'm a fan of. Also the match between them on SD in 08 screamed mediocre, and I don't get why they'd put them in a random match on SD in the first place for their first match in 6 years. 

Interestingly enough, if I'm not mistaken, Taker/HHH are among the only few matchup combinations to have matches featuring every face/heel dynamic. What I mean is they've had:

Face vs. Face matches (SD 08, WM27, AND WM28)
Face Taker vs. Heel HHH (WM17, Raw 02, and more I'm sure I'm forgetting)
Heel Taker vs. Face HHH (UK PPV in 02, KOTR 02)
and even the rare Heel vs. Heel combination (Raw 1999)

Not sure what other combination of wrestlers can claim they've done that, though most also haven't done heel vs. heel since they're so rare. I thought Taker/Angle may have fallen in the same category as they had a heel vs. heel match or two in 02, but they've never had a match to my recollection where Taker was the heel and Angle was the face. 

I think Kane/Batista may have all the combinations as well. Heel vs. Heel (Raw in 04 where Eugene was GM... though I think it was short) and Face Kane vs. Heel Batista at Armageddon 2002. I'm not sure about the other combinations, but I'm certain face Batista vs. face/heel Kane has happened at some point, but not sure if both happened.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My favourite HHH/Undertaker match is from SD 2000, some time before Fully Loaded. I'd only recently gotten Sky Sports to see Smackdown, and it was "uncut" on a Wednesday night, and the show with those in a No DQ match or something was the first Smackdown I got to see that wasn't "cut" on a Saturday morning lol.

They had a fun match on SD in 01 as well during the Undertaker/Austin feud, where Austin phoned up and told Undertaker his wife had been in a car wreck, then blamed it on HHH (they were tagging at the time :lmao ), so Undertaker tried to murder HHH in a match .


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Trying to get back to watching some wrestling again after being very disinterested. I haven't followed the current product since the initial Punk run right before MITB when he "walked out". My collection of ppvs stopped at Extreme Rules 2010, I ordered OVL and F4W 2010 to start back up. Started Extreme Rules last night, I liked the Punk/Mysterio match, and Orton/Swagger was surprisingly entertaining, Jack took 2 great headshots from the trashcan haha, gonna finish it in a bit, and then move on to OVL and F4W.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just finished downloading the new nwo and Lesnar sets so thats me sorted for the next few days.

On possible Taker opponents at Mania i'd go for either Punk or Lesnar. 2 very different potential feuds but both would be really entertaining.

I'd also love to see Kane built up again for one last run and for him and Taker to retire together at Mania in a few years.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

For the streak it simply HAS to be Cena or Lesnar for me. Nobody else is acceptable because I just couldn't ever buy into them beating him. I couldn't even let myself _pretend_ that Punk or anybody else could beat Taker lol and I don't think Rock can produce the type of match that the streak has now come to demand at this stage. Short of pulling out a shotgun and firing rounds, nothing will be able to keep him down lol. The match needs to be a truly physical war, not the big flashy main event style match Rock is more suited for at this stage in his career.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

I would get that but I don't see how Rock falls into that category when Cena and HBK don't, Rock's got history of a far more viscous side than either of those, especially Cena now?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

YoungGun_UK said:


> I would get that but I don't see how Rock falls into that category when Cena and HBK don't, Rock's got history of a far more viscous side than either of those, especially Cena now?


Pinning my hopes on Cena losing his shit and turning heel at the MEGA heat he'll receive for even standing in the same ring as Taker lol or at the very least, playing the heel or a pseudo heel in the match/feud and getting some of his edge back.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would love to see heel Cena v. Taker @ Mania. I'd like to see Lesnar/Taker, too, but that means another loss for Lesnar since returning. He should have NEVER lost to Cena, damnit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Heel Cena bringing out the awesome intensity he has in him in a match with Taker would be epic! But I hope WM29 will be Lesnar/Taker and Rock/Cena II. Then at XXX it should be Taker/Cena.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If Ryback actually blossoms into a consistent draw, perhaps Vince will pull the trigger on a Cena heel turn and let Ryback be the top face. Heel Cena v. Ryback doesn't sound bad, either.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think Brock is leaving after 29 anyways so it doesn't really bother me if he goes out on a loss. Of course, he should have beaten Cena, then went on to beat HHH (which he did) and then finally got beaten by Taker at Mania 29. But noooooo, WWE is retarded and ruined all true potential with Lesnar before they even got the chance to tap into it. Idiots. As big as it was, the match with HHH would have felt much bigger had Lesnar went in unbeaten.

I absolutely ADORE the idea that gets brought up of Cena making the heel turn against Taker whereby HHH comes out at the end and screws Taker over to give Cena the win thus cementing the 2 of them as a new corporation type of deal. I love that idea but it scares the complete shit out of me at the same time lol. I don't think I'd know how to deal with it if it happened, haha. I also don't think the streak should ever be broken but holy fuck what a way to break it lol.

@Choke - I'm fully on the Taker/Cena @30 match bandwagon lol. I'm not going to Mania 29 but I most certainly WILL be going to 30 and Taker/Cena is a MUST see match for me. I'll gladly pay my money for that. Gladly.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Rock/Cena 2, please god no.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Undertaker vs The Rock from King of the Ring 1999 blows. Don't like that match at all pardon Undertaker being at his all time greatest via Ministry. You won't find me putting over many matches in the Attitude Era unless they involved Owen Hart or X-Pac.

Dream match vs Taker at WrestleMania? Honestly, I don't care as long as Undertaker wins. Put him in there vs Cena. Cena doesn't have to be heel to make it huge. It's huge all on its own.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I absolutely ADORE the idea that gets brought up of Cena making the heel turn against Taker whereby HHH comes out at the end and screws Taker over to give Cena the win thus cementing the 2 of them as a new corporation type of deal. I love that idea but it scares the complete shit out of me at the same time lol. I don't think I'd know how to deal with it if it happened, haha. I also don't think the streak should ever be broken but holy fuck what a way to break it lol.
> 
> @Choke - I'm fully on the Taker/Cena @30 match bandwagon lol. I'm not going to Mania 29 but I most certainly WILL be going to 30 and Taker/Cena is a MUST see match for me. I'll gladly pay my money for that. Gladly.


That should have happened against The Rock as was suggested by many. Would have been awesome, specially in Rock's hometown.

And WM29 has broken your WM streak now ever since you first went to WM24?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Yeah. 25, 26, 27, 28 but no 29 for me. I just can't afford it and things haven't worked out the way I had hoped. 30 is a lock though. I can't miss that lol. Yeah, I'm much more comfortable with a screwjob like that happening against Rock than Taker. The streak is just too sacred to be messed with like that, haha. 



Hailsabin said:


> Dream match vs Taker at WrestleMania? Honestly, I don't care as long as Undertaker wins. Put him in there vs Cena. *Cena doesn't have to be heel to make it huge. It's huge all on its own.*


Very true. I just don't think face Cena will go to the lengths needed to win the match. It all stems from my belief that the past 4 streak matches have gradually got more intense/physical/hyped etc. We've seen Taker literally beaten until he can't stand with 30 something chair shots, sledgehammer shots, a bazillion SCM's and a bazillion Pedigree's not to mention his own Tombstone lol. The idea that the streak could end with anything less than that doesn't fly with me. That's why I don't want Rock/Taker or think it will work. The story of the streak has now become 'What do I have to do to beat this guy?' and a simple Rock Bottom or AA isn't going to cut it. Heel Cena however? Well, we're in unchartered waters here lol. I'd love to see the turn play out in the match itself where Cena gets unmercifully shat on, its clearly getting to him and he FINALLY embraces the hate, says fuck it, and starts beating the shit out of Taker like he should because he knows it's the only way he can win. Face Cena vs. Face Taker would be great. Heel Cena vs. Face Taker has the potential to be AMAZING. 

All imo of course lol.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Interestingly enough, if I'm not mistaken, Taker/HHH are among the only few matchup combinations to have matches featuring every face/heel dynamic.
> 
> Not sure what other combination of wrestlers can claim they've done that


Kane/Undertaker had all possible face/heel combinations. 

Face Kane vs Face Taker on Smackdown in 08 
Heel Kane vs Heel Taker at Judgment Day 98
Face Kane vs Heel Taker on Raw after Judgment Day 98
and Heel Kane vs Face Taker of course

I can't think of any other example. Like you said very interesting to think about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No doubt a heel Cena would certainly give the match more edge. But, looking back at the last 4 WrestleMania matches all of Undertaker's opponents (yeah, BOTH guys haha) were faces. No real heel elements there and they still tried everything they could to win the match. That's why I'm thinking a heel turn isn't essential to making it be the most unbelievable match. I really do feel John Cena vs The Undertaker, as they are, would be enough. Not to say I would refuse a heel turn. If, they would actually do it (even just for that one match) I'd be _ALL_ for it. Flashbacks to 2003 running through my head.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Heel turn is definitely not needed, as Taker/Cena is as big a sell (if not more) than Taker/HBK and Taker/HHH. I just think changing the dynamic would be great if they do decide to pull the trigger on turning him.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't know if Cena is a good match for 'Taker at this stage of 'Taker's career.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> No doubt a heel Cena would certainly give the match more edge. But, looking back at the last 4 WrestleMania matches all of Undertaker's opponents (yeah, BOTH guys haha) were faces. No real heel elements there and they still tried everything they could to win the match. That's why I'm thinking a heel turn isn't essential to making it be the most unbelievable match. I really do feel John Cena vs The Undertaker, as they are, would be enough. Not to say I would refuse a heel turn. If, they would actually do it (even just for that one match) I'd be _ALL_ for it. Flashbacks to 2003 running through my head.


They were faces but kinda sorta not really lol. Shawn has always had that edge to him and he taunted Taker with all the holy stuff etc. Trips has always been a bastard no matter if he's playing heel or face lol. Cena though, he would stand there and smile while Taker told him he wasn't in his league. Then he'd tell everybody he agreed, tuck his tail between his legs and go to the back to let Taker have his time. The heel turn isn't essential and Taker/Cena is a HUGE match on its own. Absolutely. But for the sake of the story I'd personally like to see, I think Cena descending into heeldom and finally embracing the hate against a true embodiment of the WWE for the past 20 years now would be something magical to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It can all be determined on how John-boy decides to act while building up the match. If the booking said "John do your normal stuff and we'll sell tickets either way" then yeah, the smiling stuff is accurate. However, if they decided to let Cena show some edge, a la HBK & Game, then staying face is fine. He'll only go the route that say Batista did vs Undertaker. That's a good example I can use. He'll own Taker and try to get the upper hand w/o turning on the fans. 

I think we all know that a heel Cena in this program would rock our socks off though. No question at all. OWNS.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

How would John Cena "own" the Undertaker? I don't think it is even humanly possible. And if it is, Taker wouldn't allow it for a second.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't know if I should answer with a "Oh boy, a Cena hater" or "you do know wrestling is scripted" line. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He's a fan of 97 HBK. Take it easy on him.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:cena2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I need to find those gifs of HBK's COKED UP entrances, and the ones where he's pretending to suck a dick while juggling the nutsack. Guy was on another level back then :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

COKED OUT SHAWN

wasn't that dick sucking moment an avatar for Andy3000 a year or two ago? :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

lmao idk I took a 3 year hiatus from this place. RETURN OF THE YEAR.

Wouldn't surprise me, though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I was asking a serious question. What do you mean by "Cena owning the Undertaker?" Do you mean in the ring, during the match? On the mic leading up to the match? There are different ways of "owning someone."

By the way, not everyone is a Cena hater. There are people out there who actually enjoy wrestling for what it is. My lord, Cena marks sure are sensitive, aren't they? Someone who just said one wrestler is going to "own" another is telling someone else that wrestling is scripted. That's...cute.

Yup, I was a fan of HBK's in the 90s. You know, one of the greatest in-ring performers of all time. I should be humiliated? LOL, yeah...right. HBK on coke was still better than anything John Cena has ever done in wrestling..ever. Now, *that's* embarrassing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm an HBK mark. We weren't ridiculing you for that. If anything, it was a positive.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Lady Killer, my apologies, although nothing you said bothered me. I was just legit serious at what the other guy meant, that's all.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When you chime in "I don't think it's humanly possible" in regards to Cena one-upping the Undertaker then what else would you expect. Of course it's possible...

and I mean by "own" as in get the upper hand. Shift the momentum of the feud to his side. Psychology 101 stuff.

EDIT ~ There it is, Ether. oh man.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

please don't ruin this thread. it's the only WWE one that doesn't make me want to kill puppies. as far as I know, no-one in here is a Cena mark; they just understand that's he's capable of good-great matches.

the GOAT thread is more for you.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Haha, that .gif is hilarious. Guy really was nuts back then, but in a funny, entertaining type of way.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Hailsabin, I guess. But everything he does just comes off as so manufactured. Hopefully, he would put the poopy jokes and insults on the backburner for a feud with Undertaker. But I doubt they would go with that feud anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader13 said:


> please don't ruin this thread. it's the only WWE one that doesn't make me want to kill puppies. as far as I know, no-one in here is a Cena mark; they just understand that's he's capable of good-great matches.
> 
> the GOAT thread is more for you.


Tbhayley. (Y)

I was feeling under the weather last night and didn't finish In Your House: Rage in the Cage. Still pumped for Michaels vs Owen. Anyone seen that? I'm expecting something GREAT regardless, but any reviews, comments, etc would be fun to know what I can expect when I watch later.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao what episode of RAW (?) was that?

edit ya Cody, it owns. **** range, probably. Been awhile. Call back to the enziguiri angle = 

I still prefer the CRY BABY match from that event, though. :hb


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

****, HBK always had better chemistry with Owen than Bret. Shawn's selling was also on point the entire match

And no idea TLK :lmao. 

I vaguely remember Shawn being in an ankle lock from Shamrock and looking like a complete idiot during it :lmao, can anyone help me find that match/gif?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He had a lollipop in his mouth :lmao :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

*** for the crybaby match for me. It still ruled and kept in play with how Hall was the most consistent PPV worker during '95 - '96.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I know I'm a little late, but I gotta...



ShowStopper '97 said:


> How would John Cena "own" the Undertaker?


By telling him he leaves every year after Wrestlemania and doesn't care about the fans anymore. :cena2


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> He had a lollipop in his mouth :lmao :lmao


That's the one! :lmao, does anyone know why? I saw a gif of it awhile back and that's it


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> I know I'm a little late, but I gotta...
> 
> 
> 
> By telling him he leaves every year after Wrestlemania and doesn't care about the fans anymore. :cena2


Where is the owning? The fact that Taker and Rock can appear whenever they want and still be more loved and respected than Cena ever has been only makes them look more superior.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Where is the owning? The fact that Taker and Rock can appear whenever they want and still be more loved and respected than Cena ever has been only makes them look more superior.


It's called a joke.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> It's called a joke.


Obviously, but not a very good one. Quality over quantity.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ether said:


> That's the one! :lmao, does anyone know why? I saw a gif of it awhile back and that's it


From what I recall Shawn was being his prick self cutting a promo in those khaki shorts he used to wear while sucking on a lollipop. Shamrock took exception to some things he said and put him in the ankle lock but HBK kept the lollipop in his mouth while selling the hold like a madman :lmao

That's purely off memory but I think it's fairly accurate.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's accurate. I think Trips even points that out on Shawn's Heartbreak and Triumph doc about how that made Shawn come off as an even bigger dick :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm legit LOL'ing right now. I need to find a video of this ASAP.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

All of the Owen/Shawn matches are pretty awesome and RITC is probably the best one. Owen had a real overlooked 1996. I looooove his Yokozuna tag team. I may like it more than Owen's tag team with Bulldog. Anyone seen Owen/Yoko v Davey/Luger from.....WHENEVER? It's awesome. From an IYH in 1995, I think.

Michaels stuffing the Canadian flag up his nose is another notable and funny dick Shawn moment. That was probably only the fourth worst thing he put up his nose that day, though.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

It's a real shame we never saw anything close to that Shawn again besides the Hogan feud


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ether said:


> It's a real shame we never saw anything close to that Shawn again besides the Hogan feud


Agreed. Big time bummer.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> All of the Owen/Shawn matches are pretty awesome and RITC is probably the best one. Owen had a real overlooked 1996. I looooove his Yokozuna tag team. I may like it more than Owen's tag team with Bulldog. Anyone seen Owen/Yoko v Davey/Luger from.....WHENEVER? It's awesome. From an IYH in 1995, I think.


IYH2 I think. Love that match. ALLIED POWERS.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Start at 6:45 :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Already laughing and I haven't even pressed play yet :lmao

edit :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just watched that. Better than I was expecting. Even though I do like Owen & Yokozuna. They even had a good match vs Smoking Gunns for the time given on the first IYH PPV.

YOKOZUNA DROPPING THAT LEG. Think that's how they've won all their matches so far haha.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That legitimately makes me want to watch Michaels/Shamrock more than I did before. Automatically ****1/4 if a lollipop gets involved at any point in the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How did the lollipop stay in his mouth during all of that? :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He's lucky he didn't choke on it from the belly-to-belly :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There's also the time a fan belted him in the head with a battery during a promo and he stormed off backstage :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He was probably so blitzed out of his skull he couldn't even acknowledge the danger of doing that.

OH 1997 SHAWN. That crazy kid.

EDIT ~ oh fuck I just legit laughed so hard after reading that. A battery :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Shawn Michaels Post-"I Lost my Smile" to Wrestlemania XIV was AWESOMELY dickish shit. It's funny because it's probably the closest thing we got to his outside-the-ring personality ever (Love me some HBK though). Here are just a few of his AWESOME matches from that time period :

w/Austin vs Bulldog/Hart RAW
vs Austin KOTR 97
vs Mankind RAW 
vs Bulldog ONO 97 (SUCH A GREAT DICKISH PERFORMANCE)
vs Taker GZ 97
vs Undertaker IYHBB 97 (GOAT)
vs Bret SS 97
vs Shamrock IYHDX

Now that I think about it ; 1997 Shawn Michaels > 1996 Shawn Michaels, he was also 34X the character he ever was before or after that particular time frame.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The ONO performance is amazing :lmao

edit here you go Cody


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Shawn Michaels Post-"I Lost my Smile" to Wrestlemania XIV was AWESOMELY dickish shit. It's funny because it's probably the closest thing we got to his outside-the-ring personality ever (Love me some HBK though). Here are just a few of his AWESOME matches from that time period :
> 
> w/Austin vs Bulldog/Hart RAW
> vs Austin KOTR 97
> ...


As a long time HBK mark, your post here nailed it. This was the best version of HBK ever, IMO. The most entertaining on the mic and in his prime in the ring. Although, it's crazy to think the matches you listed just wrapped up part one of his career. He still had just as many classics ahead of him, starting 4 years later. To take 4 years off to heal...*to heal* and come back just as great, if not better. Pretty amazing if you think about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never seen his match vs Smith @ One Night Only. Imagine I'd dig it since I'm such a fan of a match they had on RAW in early '95.

:lmao it happened at the DX public workout. I remember that now. Oh I have to watch that DVD again tonight.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Never seen his match vs Smith @ One Night Only. Imagine I'd dig it since I'm such a fan of a match they had on RAW in early '95.


It's on the "My Journey" DVD of his that came out in 2010.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just looked at the match listing too. Must own it. The only matches that would double in my collection would be 6 of the most recent ones. It's worth it alone for all the rest of the old-school bouts. Plus both matches vs Smith made it. Wonderful.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've never heard of this HBK DVD  

Match list plz


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

> A Boy in a Man's World
> 
> Shawn Michaels vs. One Man Gang
> World C_lass Championship Wrestling January 11, 1985
> ...


You don't remember this coming out like right before WrestleMania 26?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My Journey > > Heartbreak and Triumph ....... It's not even a comparison to me really.

Anyways, this might be a completely sacreligious thing to say on a Wrestling Forum, but in terms of pure consistent greatness on a main event level , Punk 2011-2012 is one of those runs where you look at it in a few years and say "Yeah, that was a fucking AWESOME main event run" , up there with runs such as HBK in 96-97 and HHH in 00-EARLY 01. To be honest , Lesnar from 02-4 was an AMAZING run as well in terms of his main event matches.

When it comes to pure consistency over the last decade (since 2002) I'd easily give the nod to Mysterio as the best, but as the best main event performer it's have to be the likes of Taker/HHH/HBK/Cena/Punk/Lesnar/Benoit . I'd do a top 5 (and I will off the top of my head later) , but I need to look at every MAIN (meaning going on last) event of the last 10 years to see who the best performers are


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lmao not at all. Wow the old stuff is great. I need to pick this up.

Problem with Punk's run is that despite the matches being great for the most part, they weren't the main event 90% of the time. His title reign has been in the shadows until recently.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, it has a great match listing and some pretty good interview segments in between each match with Cole interviewing him before each match. The documentary part of "Heartbreak & Triumph" is much better. But the match listing for the "My Journey" DVD is better. It's a "must own," IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I almost bought it a couple of times, Greg. Didn't know the matches at the time though. Now I wished I had it. 

Yeah, and don't know how it could be considered sacreligious either since a lot appreciate what Punk can do inside the ring.

Mysterio was consistent as hell. Not until this year has he really slowed down. He doesn't get mentioned much, but I love Rey's chemistry with JBL. I think they feed off of each other really well. Lots of fun whenever they duke it out. No Mercy 2005 being the one I guess some could easily check out due to it on PPV. That was my favorite match on that show, tbhayley.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Speaking of No Mercy 05, any thoughts on Batista/Eddie? **3/4-*** from me. It seemed like a poor mans version of Lesnar/Eddie, and they never really kicked into the second gear, plus a spinebuster instead of the Batista Bomb to end the match was kind of lame I thought.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie tried his best. For that I commend him. Never found the bout too appealing. Batista was still so meh at that time, pardon the blinding exception that is the epic Hell in a Cell vs The Game.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Anyways, this might be a completely sacreligious thing to say on a Wrestling Forum, but in terms of pure consistent greatness on a main event level , *Punk 2011-2012 is one of those runs where you look at it in a few years and say "Yeah, that was a fucking AWESOME main event run"* , up there with runs such as HBK in 96-97 and HHH in 00-EARLY 01. To be honest , Lesnar from 02-4 was an AMAZING run as well in terms of his main event matches.


No, I'll say "I'm willing to take a bullet to the brain than witness this ever again". 

*Backlash 2005:*

Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho - ****
- Absolutely awesome work by both men. The end sequence with the roll-up counters was a great ending, the athletic spot with Shelton leaping to the rope and doing a superplex was awesome and the whole match in general was highly enjoyable. Would have worked better a bit if there was a clear heel here. For the build-up, I thought Jericho was the heel since he was constantly a dick but fans cheered him over Shelton here. Well, we got a great match and that's all that matters!

William Regal/Tajiri vs The Heart Throbs vs La Resistance vs Hurricane/Rosey vs Simon Dean/Maven - **3/4
- A nice tag team turmoil match while it lasts. Nothing memorable and nothing bad, just decent and it's... just there. Oh and Hurricane and Rosey win this to a nice pop at the end.

Edge vs Chris Benoit - ***3/4
- They never had an official, big feud involving titles or anything but Benoit might be Edge's best opponent. First their awesome post-WM21 match and now this very good Last Man Standing blow-off. Edge obviously gets the win as he's the MITB holder and the next breakout star after Batista & Cena here. Both men do a great job, there are some memorable spots like the suicide dive, superplex into a trashcan, German Suplex from top of the ladder and a brick being used to put Benoit down after responding to two Spears, which protects him well in defeat. As usual, Benoit gets a standing ovation post-match despite losing. That's how much respect fans had for this man!

Kane vs Viscera - *1/2
- Viscera & Trish's little affair was more interesting than this. They are such an odd pair here yet their restaurant skits worked pretty well. As for the match, it sucks. Then post-match Viscera & Trish officially have their "break up" and Viscera squashes Trish with a splash to a bunch of "Mabel" chants.

Hulk Hogan/Shawn Michaels vs Muhammad Hassan/Daivari - ***1/4
- A very nice tag match with an electric crowd that goes crazy for the returning Hogan. Nothing much otherwise but it's entertaining to watch while it lasts and despite being there to just look stupid for Hogan and the fans, Muhammad Hassan and Daivari didn't look overly weak which was good.

Batista vs Triple H - ***1/4
- Slightly better than their Wrestlemania match but not by much. A bit shorter which helps it, crowd is more into it and there's a bit of story to this with HHH making the Pedigree out to be the "be all end all" for him to regain the title. Then he manages to do it on Batista only for Mike Chioda to oversell a clothesline which results in no counts being made and the defeat being unclean this time. Batista wins again although there's a bunch of unneeded shenanigans while it happens.

*Overall:* ***1/4 out of ***** (Not a bad PPV at all. A couple of great matches and other decent stuff with only one dud. And the non-wrestling stuff aren't bad either. Chris Masters' Masterlock challenge was unintentionally hilarious and mostly because I go and read the forum stuff all over the net said back in 2005 and the hate Masters gets far surpasses anything else I've witnessed including Cena hate. And Christian also cuts a nice little rap before the main event. It's a shame they dropped the ball with him like that. Should have been a main eventer by this point, really.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Shelton was face vs face only with both of them getting personal in the weeks leading up. Jericho showed the edge in the program. Although the crowd for Backlash was much more pro-Jericho, haha. Stellar match. I'm with you on that. (Y)

I loved that Last Man Standing. It gets **** from me. Worked out incredibly well, imo. 

Rest is whatever. Oh, but I mark like a little kid for Hurricane & Rosey winning since I'm such a big Gregory Helms fan. I HATE the Hogan tag.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Have both Edge/Benoit and Jericho/Benjamin at ****. Is this the best 1-2 punch to open up a PPV ever ? I'm not sure I can think of another PPV where we start off with 2 consecutive **** matches TBH. I LOVED the Hogan tag when I first saw it ... But YEAH ... It's shit (although it was a huge deal at the time). DAT TISTA-TRIPS match is severely underrated IMO, I fucking love that match and would give it *** 3/4.

AHHHH, No Mercy 2005... What an underappreciated show. The 3 biggest matches on the card are all great, with REY-JBL being fun as they always are with a hilarious storyline behind it (watch the SD promo where JBL comes out with a poncho and a sombrero) , Taker-Ortons being a classic and the second best casket match ever (MOTN) , with the main event being a complete carry job with Eddie getting a **** match out of big Dave with how FUCKING awesome he was. I don't like to speculate much, but I'm willing to bet we would have gotten a Taker-like older Eddie, basically meaning that his matches would SOMEHOW have gotten better even after all of these years, especially since his character rocked at this point and his new theme music was SEX and all that jazz.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That handicap casket match is a boring garbage bout. No way it can be slapped with the term "classic" on it. Only match that Taker and Orton had that wasn't worth seeing.

The fatal four way for the United States Championship from that PPV is the real under-appreciated match. It's AWESOME.

Btw, I would call the Backlash '05 4 star matches the best 1-2 punch to open up a PPV only if the Tag Team Turmoil wasn't inbetween them, haha. Not saying this is the best opening & second match combo, but it's the first off the top of my head: Judgment Day 2006. London & Kendrick vs MNM and Benoit vs Finlay. That at least takes the cake momentarily.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I'm just not on my game today... Like ... AT ALL. Got back from the gym earlier after a two-a-day and I'm just falling apart, gotta channel my inner :hhh

Don't like the handicap casket match ? Here's my Orton-Taker Series Rankings for 2005

WM XXI : ***** 1/4*
NM 05 Casket : ***** 1/4*
ARM 05 HIAC : ***** 1/4*
SS 05 : ******
SD 05 : ******

Such a BOSS fucking feud. Feud of the year, obviously.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania ~ ****1/4
Armageddon ~ ****
Smackdown ~ ****
Summerslam ~ ***1/2
No Mercy ~ **

Casket drags hard for me. I probably would have enjoyed it more if Cowboy wasn't involved. Then again he was taken out for a part of the match. Idk. Just doesn't do it for me. It was my personal favorite feud of that year. But, I was biased since the WWE put my two favorites in a feud vs each other.


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

Just popped in the NWO: The Revolution DVD. Outstanding so far. I'll throw together a nice little review after it finishes. Completely forgot they had made and released it. Picking up 'Brave' on DVD for my daughter and saw the beautiful white logo.

Edit: Whoa, new interview from Vince Russo...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah i quite enjoyed it tbh, wish they would have slightly expanded more on the Stin/Hogan thing though, and the end seemed a bit rushed, could have easily gone for another 30minutes+ IMO, but it was alright.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vader13 said:


> please don't ruin this thread. it's the only WWE one that doesn't make me want to kill puppies. as far as I know, *no-one in here is a Cena mark*; they just understand that's he's capable of good-great matches.
> 
> the GOAT thread is more for you.


I am. #riseabovehate #CeNation :cena2

Dickhead HBK is the GOAT. So much win. You just want to smack the guy for being a little bastard lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wrestling needs more DICK (heels). Guys who are just DICKS for the sake of being a DICK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Jericho vs Shelton was face vs face only with both of them getting personal in the weeks leading up. Jericho showed the edge in the program. Although the crowd for Backlash was much more pro-Jericho, haha. Stellar match. I'm with you on that. (Y)
> 
> I loved that Last Man Standing. It gets **** from me. Worked out incredibly well, imo.
> 
> Rest is whatever. Oh, but I mark like a little kid for Hurricane & Rosey winning since I'm such a big Gregory Helms fan. I HATE the Hogan tag.


I would have given LMS a bigger rating if it involved more weapon violence. Felt too much like a mat-wrestling match and barely used any weapons which is what LMS matches are supposed to be about. Just didn't live up to its stipulation I thought. But still a very good match just like 99% of whatever Benoit has done.

And on the Hogan tag, I forgot to mention this. HBK makes me laugh with his constant jumping around whenever Hogan's song is playing.

Count me in as a "Cena mark" too. I'm not immune to getting annoyed by him to the point of wanting to see him get his ass kicked but at the end of the day, I'm a big fan and often defend him, character notwithstanding.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

KingCal said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wrestling needs more DICK (heels). Guys who are just DICKS for the sake of being a DICK.


Punk?

Makes fun of heart attacks for the lols.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Or something like this:


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

People have always said Michaels wasn't very good on the mic. But his work on the stick in 1997/1998 is brilliant. 

He was cut loose and just allowed to be himself. There is one promo were he completely owns Steve Austin and all Austin could say was he was going to kick his ass.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


> People have always said Michaels wasn't very good on the mic. But his work on the stick in 1997/1998 is brilliant.
> 
> He was cut loose and just allowed to be himself. There is one promo were he completely owns Steve Austin and all Austin could say was he was going to kick his ass.


HBK's "The Heart Break Kid lays down for nobody" promo was absolutely awesome. His 97 stuff prove that he's underrated on the mic, same with Bret Hart.

-------------------------------

Just watched the first round of the *Gold Rush Tournament* for Raw 05.

- Kane vs Christian - **1/2 (Nothing special and ends way too fast. Also fans are more concerned about Matt Hardy even though the only related person around the ring area is Lita.)

- Shawn Michaels vs Shelton Benjamin - ****1/4 (When Shelton springboarded, I was like "DAMN, I don't want this to end!" so that tells you all you need to know)

- Edge vs Chris Jericho - *** (A decent match itself but I have to bring up the Matt Hardy chants aimed at Lita and Edge every time they are on the screen. Funny how announcers have to completely no sell them.)

- Chris Benoit vs Triple H - ***1/2 (Another solid match between these two with HHH tapping out again! Also what's the story with Benoit's eyes here? They look scary crazy and glazed like he's concussed or something but considering how damn good his performance is, I find it hard to believe he actually wrestled with a concussion.)


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> I know I'm a little late, but I gotta...
> 
> 
> 
> By telling him he leaves every year after Wrestlemania and doesn't care about the fans anymore. :cena2


I'm here every week Mark :cena2

Goodness, could you imagine a Cena/Taker feud being centered around that crap? That ruined most of the Rock/Cena angle to me. So bad, and I fully expect Punk to do the same come January with Rock.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk's a little above that, trust me. I honestly think we NEED a Punk-Taker match to main event Mania, just to swerve everybody for the lolz. Ideally I'd like to see HHH-Punk but that's probably never going to happen. Ahhh fuck this IPhone and its inability to create multiple paragraphs for me  


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Punk's a little above that, trust me. I honestly think we NEED a Punk-Taker match to main event Mania, just to swerve everybody for the lolz. Ideally I'd like to see HHH-Punk but that's probably never going to happen. Ahhh fuck this IPhone and its inability to create multiple paragraphs for me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Can't say Punk is above it, in fact he's the catalyst for it in the modern age. unk

This is Philipp Books talking to Paul. Ring a bell? lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Meant a rematch in where Trips finally puts PHIL over as the top heel/tweener of the era. You know, without interference by Kevin fucking Nash of all people . DAT POLITICZ :hhh


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Punk's not going to make his feud with the rock about i'm here every week and you are not. Punk's going to have more freedom than cena because cena was still trying to save face against rock. Cena couldn't go all out pure heel against rock, which punk can do. 

I'm ok with rock, he's one of the most charismatic of all time but his promos are just ok with me, I have problems with his subject matter for promos. But I want intense rock, not corny joke, trend on twitter rock. Punk's the best mic worker from this current era and is going to make rock step up his game. I literally can't wait for this feud, it's going to be the only part of the rumble i'm genuinely looking forward to. 

It should be good match, punk's 2011-2012 run has been exceptional and he can get a good match out of almost anybody, rock's an ok-good worker so I do have high hopes.

I'm still holding out hope for a Punk/Cena/Rock triple threat for the title at Mania. Punk walks in as the champion of course by beating rock at the rumble by some awesome dickish heel way. unk


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Punk's not going to make his feud with the rock about i'm here every week and you are not. Punk's going to have more freedom than cena because cena was still trying to save face against rock. Cena couldn't go all out pure heel against rock, which punk can do.
> 
> I'm ok with rock, he's one of the most charismatic of all time but his promos are just ok with me, I have problems with his subject matter for promos. But I want intense rock, not corny joke, trend on twitter rock. Punk's the best mic worker from this current era and is going to make rock step up his game. I literally can't wait for this feud, it's going to be the only part of the rumble i'm genuinely looking forward to.
> 
> ...


I def understand the Rock promo criticisms. I too believe that hes at his best when he's serious, which he has done in the past.

But I sure hope you are right about the Rock/Punk feud. Everything I have seen from Rock/Punk so far leads to it going the wrong way and hopefully it doesn't. I dont want any DWYANE talk, movie bashing, respect, you left and im here bull shit. Its so lame. Make it over the title, throw a few of those elements in there, but the title and showing who is the best needs to be the focus of the feud. I agree that Punk/Rock should be a nice start to the year. You can already tell Rock is going to be alot more serious this time around from his face off with Punk on RAW 1000, and since Punk is a heel, the dynamic will be much better. WWE needs to get Punk his balls back and cut the cowardly shit too. The Rumble PPV needs to have a good supporting cast while Im talking about it. Last years was pretty bad. They have a solid title match in the works, so WWE needs to step it up. Kick the year off right with a solid PPV.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

The-Rock-Says said:


> People have always said Michaels wasn't very good on the mic. But his work on the stick in 1997/1998 is brilliant.
> 
> He was cut loose and just allowed to be himself. There is one promo were he completely owns Steve Austin and all Austin could say was he was going to kick his ass.


Michaels promos where he's coked out of his absolute mind are the greatest. There's one where he's in Canada, visibly wired to the moon, and totally soaks up the fact everybody in the arena hate him to fucking death. He's waving a tiny little Canadian flag around and he's prancing about the ring like a spastic. It's incredible. He was technically still a babyface at the time (IIRC), but I'd assume Vince just told him to go be as big of an egomaniac as he wanted. Shit, he probably told him that every week in '97.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Here you go. Love JR's introduction of HBK to the Canadian crowd "San Antonio's gift to the WWF.." Also love the Flair strut HBK does at the 37 second mark. I can't remember the last time a crowd sounded this hot. This is heat.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

My copy of Wrestlemania 28 has just arrived, but im resisting the urge to play it just yet. Started watching from Mania 17 last night and I want to work my through to 28.

I still can't quite believe that I haven't watched anything of 28 since it first showed and to add to that, I fell asleep halfway through Hell in a Cell (woke up for the finishing stretch though). That means I haven't watched anything of Punk vs Jericho, Rock vs Cena or the multiman tag match (which I usually love) and there's a large section of HHH vs Taker I have yet to see.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

By the way, would love to see that version of Shawn Michaels in a feud with John Cena. 

Torn. To. Shreds.

That is all.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That heat is fucking amazing :lmao

His 2005 Canada promo was amazing as well. VINTAGE HBK.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Religion sucks. Totally ruined HBK


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

"*******" chants :lmao


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Here you go. Love JR's introduction of HBK to the Canadian crowd "San Antonio's gift to the WWF.." Also love the Flair strut HBK does at the 37 second mark. I can't remember the last time a crowd sounded this hot. This is heat.


YES! I can never seem to find that shit on youtube. The disc I have it on won't work, either.

He is such an antagonising prick in that :lmao. 



The Lady Killer said:


> That heat is fucking amazing :lmao
> 
> His 2005 Canada promo was amazing as well. VINTAGE HBK.


The '05 promo is one of my favourite promos ever. 

"FUCK YOU, SHAWN. FUCK YOU, SHAWN."

"Do you people talk to your CHILDREN with that mouth?"

(or something like that)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That 05 promo is legendary. That pop when he fooled them into thinking Bret Hart will appear was amazing. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember seeing that promo when it happened but never since. Link PLZ if possible.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WHO'S YOUR DADDY, MONTREAL?! :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck that was epic. :lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saw both of these reviewed recently as part of a project and it convinced me to give both a watch:

*MNM vs Rey Mysterio & Batista, (Smackdown 12/30/05)*





 




Amazing STF match here. People often bring up great tag teams and honestly, has there been a better tag team since the Rockers in the WWE than MNM? People point to the Hardyz, Dudleys and E&C but none of those teams, especially the Dudleys and E&C as heels could work a match quite like MNM. Match is entirely layed out like a great STF match should be, and when you've got great babyfaces like Mysterio and Batista who are complimented by great heels in MNM its a formula which can't fail. Extended babyface opening has a nice flow to it and everything is hit well enough with Mysterio in particular having a tremendous headscissors on Nitro which looked insane. Nitro to his credit also has this brilliant subtle spot where he breaks up a Mysterio cover and then shits himself when he eyes Batista about to enter the ring. In fairness the way they built up the power of Batista at the beginning and end of the match really should be credited, since it made the FIP section all the more pivotal to the match.

Transition spot is beautiful with Mercury distracting Mysterio long enough for Nitro to counter a springboard with a superkick, and Mysterio's right leg gets tangled in the ropes and becomes the centre of MNM's focus. From here the selling of Mysterio is as beautiful as MNM's dissection of the leg. Things like Mysterio collapsing on an irish whip attempt and Nitro drawing the referee into trying to control Batista allowing them to hit an illegal double team move are just brilliant little touches that you'll often find in a STF match. MNM work the leg like kings and everything moves along smoothly and the crowd slowly becomes more unglued with each tease of a hot tag. Whole sequence where Rey rolls away like a fly to evade MNM's trap, only to be caught mid dive and inches away from the hot tag only to hit a desparation DDT counter and eventually make the tag was the spot of the match.

Hot tag has the crowd molten and Batista does his job well in clearing house and making MNM lambs to the slaughter. Melina really sells the fear that Batista will evaporate their strategy in the blink of an eye and they even manage to work the referee injury spot really well. Mysterio before this hits a lunatic hurricanrana to Nitro off the apron to the floor which really felt like everything he had left in the match. Mark Henry interference is perfectly timed and we get a great screjob finish with MNM stealing the belts with Batista motionless from Henry's assault. Great pacing, great offence from MNM, wonderful FIP spell from Mysterio and a great build to the hot tag to Batista. Awesome match.


*Jack Swagger vs Christian, (ECW 2/24/09)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8...an-ecw-title_sport?search_algo=2#.UKarPIYybk8

Ok, so its been a while since I last saw this but on last watch it was my MOTY for 2009. Having watched it again that's still the case for me and tbh the gap has only widened in my view for this being better than any other match I've seen from 2009. The pacing, the selling, the workover, the timing, the veteran/rookie story which plays into almost every transition...its just a spectacular match which really deserves more praise from people. I mean as far as 'world title' matches go in WWE since 2000-2012, I'd only have Cena/Umaga, Cena/Punk MITB, Eddie/JBL and maybe Mysterio/Orton ahead of it. As much as I wouldn't argue with anyone who has matches like Angle/Taker 03 and 06, I honestly think bell to bell I prefer this match to them. I mean I like both those matches a hell of a lot, but matches like Angle/Austin, Punk/Bryan, Austin/Benoit, Batista/Taker and HHH/Hardy aren't necessarily 'better' to me than this, though I could see the argument for Austin/Angle.

The story of the veteran Christian vs the more agile yet inexperienced Swagger is beautifully told. The early mat wrestling establishes Swagger as having Christian's number although Christian manages to look fairly competent, albeit outmatched in this area. Throughout the match though every Christian transition revolves around either his experience in luring Swagger into dangerous areas or using Swagger's inexperience against him, such as pulling the ropes to send Swagger to the floor as a setup for the crossbody dive to the floor. Swagger himself always manages to stay a step ahead of Christian via his sheer power or his superior counter wrestling ability. The way these contrasts dominate every major sequence in the match is sensational and really adds to a tremendous flow and rhythm as they work their way towards the finish.

Swagger's workover of Christian is timed and done very well, with Christian however pulling out arguably his most emphatic selling performance. Loved the way Swagger's superior wrestling ability proved the difference maker in keeping Christian down when he was handicapped, whereas prior to that it wasn't something Swagger could rely on to decisively win. Christian's selling throughout the workover and into his comeback however needs to be studied by all aspiring babyface wrestlers, because its a masterclass in how to build empathy, drama and attachment to the match and pull the crowd into every nearfall in the finish. The way he sells it after hitting moves which could otherwise have won him the match, especially after the tornado DDT where he pulls this brilliant facial expression of pure agony is majestical. You not only feel his physical pain but also his anger and frustration at being hampered by the injury as he tries to complete his career comeback.

All the nearfalls in this are timed expertly and built to in a simplistic yet smart fashion. Both men unleash shrewd and timely counters which feel organic and not just being done as a lazy transition, and Christian's injury really adds a sense of drama to every counter with you expecting it to give out at any moment. I really loved how they did a callback spot to the initial transition spot where Swagger caught Christian with a surprise clothesline, only for him to fail when attempting this again later in the match as well as his reverse splash being countered on the 2nd attempt. Really touched upon Christian's experience and versatility and again had you believing he could beat Swagger. The final counters from Christian out of the Swagger Bomb are really well executed and the finish is sublime with Christian managing to pull off a masterclass counter into a Killswitch only for the arm to give out and Swagger to hit a desperation Swagger bomb for the finish.

Just a beautiful wrestling match with well thought out and structured counters, a great story which dominates the body of the match and crucial transitions, Christian pulling out an exceptional babyface selling performance and Swagger looking as good as he'd ever look inside a WWE ring.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched that tag match. I didn't remember it at all, which made it more exciting this time around. MNM was so legit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I knew one of those MNM vs Batista/Mysterio matches rocked. Think the first match was a squash, then it was that one, then the cage where Henry couldn't get the lock to break, haha.

****1/4 for Christian vs Swagger. So much magic in less than 13 minutes. :mark:

Gonna watch the HBK promo right now. Never seen it...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

They were incredible. Definitely would have excelled in the territories with that sort of gimmick and approach to working a tag match. Their matches were always packed with great heel mannerisms and traits that you expect from a good STF match, drawing the ref out of position, illegal moves, choking the opponent, entering the ring without a legit tag etc. Nitro in particular was a mad bump machine and Mercury was probably the more calculating and smarter worker at the time. Makes me think Nitro/Morrison really should have been a career tag guy, because he really was looking like a future star here compared to singles matches where he was more hit or miss.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well look at his run in tag teams. He benefited being with an experienced guy in Joey Mercury, then by the time he hooked up with Miz he was seasoned enough in the tag game to mesh well with him. Sounds like there should be a project where someone should watch every Johnny Nitro/John Morrison tag team match. I know there are enough to complete that. vs Yang & Moore from ECW are the gems i'm immediately thinking of w/Morrison & Miz.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nitro/Morrison = 

Always been a fan.

FUCK @ that Swagger/Christian match. Hadn't seen it before.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tag matches in general really are a great way to hide the limitations of certain wrestlers and play to what strengths they have. Guys like Angle can use their fast paced style off of a hot tag without having to worry about the work in between the spots, and guys not confident/experienced enough to lead a match have the advantage of tagging in and out to reduce the workload. Such a shame WWE more or less gave up on them for such a long time because they're a great learning device. Its also a shame that for whatever reason the current crop of wrestlers seem unable to work a proper STF match. Everything on the bigger shows really just feels like filler (the lack of time obviously contributes here) but for the most part guys just don't seem bothered to work a good STF match like you usually associate with WWE. Think the last tag I'd call close to great was the Cena/Bourne vs Sheamus/Edge tag from Raw 2010 and that was all down to Cena being an amazing apron worker, Bourne being a dynamite FIP with an engaging underdog story and he and Sheamus having a great cat and mouse dynamic in nearly all of their exchanges.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Anyone care to give thoughts on Rock's newest DVD set? I just ordered it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

STF = standard tag formula? Or am I way off base with that guess? It has been bugging me. Never seen that acronym describe tag work before (clearly you're more adept in the area than I).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Nitro/Morrison =
> 
> Always been a fan.
> 
> FUCK @ that Swagger/Christian match. Hadn't seen it before.


I miss the LADDERSAULT gif.

Never saw it? What were you doing with yourself in 2009?  (at least you saw it now)



Segunda Caida said:


> Tag matches in general really are a great way to hide the limitations of certain wrestlers and play to what strengths they have. Guys like Angle can use their fast paced style off of a hot tag without having to worry about the work in between the spots, and guys not confident/experienced enough to lead a match have the advantage of tagging in and out to reduce the workload. Such a shame WWE more or less gave up on them for such a long time because they're a great learning device. Its also a shame that for whatever reason the current crop of wrestlers seem unable to work a proper STF match. Everything on the bigger shows really just feels like filler (the lack of time obviously contributes here) but for the most part guys just don't seem bothered to work a good STF match like you usually associate with WWE. Think the last tag I'd call close to great was the Cena/Bourne vs Sheamus/Edge tag from Raw 2010 and that was all down to Cena being an amazing apron worker, Bourne being a dynamite FIP with an engaging underdog story and he and Sheamus having a great cat and mouse dynamic in nearly all of their exchanges.


They even fill like dreaded filler when they get time. If I have to stomache another 10 minute Mysterio/Sin Cara tag match I'm gonna punch somebody. Meanwhile Heath Slater, who is in a tag team now, still gets 3 minute matches and he's proven to a degree that he's pretty strong in tag team bouts. I loved the Slater/Gabriel vs Cena/Miz tag on 2/21/11. Worked it southern style and it was just awesome. One hell of a surprise that I wasn't expecting.

Oh, don't bring up 2010.  Been meaning to relive that year since I really was into what WWE was pumping out at that time. That means I'll have to start another project w/o finishing the 3 or so I have already.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with the Smackdown episode where Eddie completes his heel turn. Awesome beat-down on Rey and it's the first time I've seen Rey blade plus his face almost fully exposed. What does everyone think of the Rey/Chavo street fight right before it? I thought it was a pretty good match. Orale, holmes!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> I miss the LADDERSAULT gif.
> 
> Never saw it? What were you doing with yourself in 2009?  (at least you saw it now)


LADDERSAULT. I miss my MORRISON OWNS gif from ER 2008. 

And you're the one who hadn't seen the Canada promo. What were YOU doing in 2005?!?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> STF = standard tag formula? That's been bugging me. Never seen that acronym describe tag work before (clearly you're more adept in the area than I).


Close, Southern Tag Formula. Was basically a tag style that dominated southern territories throughout the 80s and into the 90s and today. Basically revolves around 3 key stages:

Stage 1: Babyface shine period. This varies from the style of the babyfaces, e.g the Rockers being quick and explosive, the Hardy Boys more daring, Taker and Kane being more physical and using their power. Essentially the heels get destroyed and outmatched. The Rock n Roll Express would often employ numerous comedy spots at the expense of the Midnight Express during this period: things like the Midnight Express trying to duplicate a spot the RnR would do only to fail, the babyfaces continually having a counter for every hold the heels would lock on etc. This builds and builds until stage 2..

Stage 2: Transition spot and Face In Peril segment. Basically the heels through nefarious means manage to counter a babyface move and isolate one of the babyfaces and work an extended control segment. The babyface bumps and sells everything like death, the babyface on the apron typically works the crowd into a frenzy and the heels bust out numerous cheat tactics to draw heat: drawing the ref out of position, taunting the babyface on the apron and drawing him into the ring, making sure the ref misses a legitimate tag to the babyface on the apron, choking the babyface, entering the ring without a valid tag etc etc. They'll also tease a hot tag such as the classic spot where the babyface jumps to the corner only to be caught and dragged away. Steamboat also used to do a classic spot where he'd almost fall over the ropes and into the ring by reaching that far for a tag.

Stage 3: Hot tag and finish. The FIP manages to tag his partner in, partner cleans house and then they go into a finishing stretch with numerous counters, screwjob teases and guys breaking up pins. Occasionally they'll deviate and work 2 shorter FIP segments, but the traditional structure has one extended heel control segment.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm familiar with the formula (as it was pretty standard WWE fare), but just wasn't sure what the acronym stood for. I suppose Southern would've been a better guess than standard, in retrospect. 

Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The John Morrison DVD is totally worth the dollar you can buy it for. Lots of fun stuff on it, even if it's only one disc.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah not sure why I haven't purchased that yet.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm familiar with the formula (as it was pretty standard WWE fare), but just wasn't sure what the acronym stood for. I suppose Southern would've been a better guess than standard, in retrospect.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation.


No worries, its pretty much the Flair formula only in a tag setting and when utilised correctly it hardly ever fails to hook the crowd and produce a very good match. All you really need is one good-great babyface, heels who know how to work a crowd and draw heat and the babyface on the apron to be able to control the crowd and work a good hot tag stretch of offence. The comedy spots are by far the best however and need to be done more in modern day tags.

I'll never tire of Arn Anderson ducking out of the ring when his partner(s) get obliterated thinking he's outsmarted the babyfaces, only to play to the crowd too long and end up eating a punch/kick/dive from the babyface. Plus it makes his ability to alternate between comedy stooge and vicious killer on offence even more impressive.

Btw *HailSabin* did you ever watch those RnR/Duggan vs Midnight Express/Ladd and Midnight Express/Fantastics tags? I recall you mentioning about wanting to give them a watch, but then I went on a mini holiday for a few days and haven't gotten around to looking through the pages I missed. If it helps make you want to watch them more, I'd call the 6 man the best 6 man tag in US History and the Express/Fantastics tag at worst a top 3 US tag of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> LADDERSAULT. I miss my MORRISON OWNS gif from ER 2008.
> 
> And you're the one who hadn't seen the Canada promo. What were YOU doing in 2005?!?


Last time I watched that PPV I tried to look for the sign. Think I found it. 

Hey, I was w/o cable at the time. It was brutal. </3

Of all people, Greg. You don't got the JoMo set. (neither do I so FUCK) I know it owns thanks to the match listing. It has the great match vs Punk and a lot of his 2009 run aka the best part of his singles career.

Segunda, idk how much indie stuff you watch, but there was a tag team match that was great mix with the Southern style + a dash of indie flavor that I _think _ you might dig. Cheech & Cloudy vs Colin Olsen & Jimmy Olsen from Chikara Cibernetico & Robin. Random suggestion, but it feeds into your love for wonderfully constructed tag team matches. I don't mean to overhype something you may never watch, but merely suggesting it.

EDIT ~ Shoot, nah. Totally escaped my mind. I know why. They on youtube or dailymotion?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'll give it a watch if I ever come across a link. I generally tend to often prefer smaller indy companies when it comes to tags these days (Lawler had a couple of gems this year) compared to say an ROH or PWG but I do find CHIKARA fun a lot of the time so I'll definitely see if it peaks my interest. 

Gonna actually watch a few Gallows and Murdoch Indy matches tomorrow which have been pimped as some of the best stuff on the US Indies last year, both guys really get overlooked because they're not booked on the bigger Indies but they're comfortably two of the best going right now. Derrick King and Frankie Tucker also had a tremendous 00s version of Lawler/Dundee this year which remains one of the better Indy matches I've seen.

EDIT:

Rock n Roll Express/Duggan vs Midnight Express/Ladd 6/8/84:






Midnight Express vs Fantastics 4/26/88

part 1: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...-the-fantast_sport?search_algo=2#.UKba-oYybk9

part 2: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mrqb_the-midnight-express-vs-the-fantast_sport#.UKbbFIYybk8


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Right on. Thought I'd pass the information your way. Especially since I put it on a pedestal. Btw, if you remember Colin Delaney from WWECW circa 2008, well he's Colin Olsen in the match if you weren't aware. He OWNS, haha.

The only Murdoch matches I was aware of in the indies were with IWA-MS. Some of the smaller ones apparently evaded me. And I didn't even know Gallows worked some stuff in the states except for Wrestling Revolution Project. Thought he was only in Japan after his release.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Gallows supposedly has a really incredible LMS match vs Jake Davis as part of a long running feud which has also apparently has a fun cage match as the blowoff. The Murdoch match again is a LMS match against Derek Stone and is supposedly worked in a very territory esque fashion with a reliance on proper brawling and big bumps as opposed to making it a propfest.

Speaking of absurdly fun indy tag matches, Seabs pimped this before and I watched it and fell in love with it. Two british skinny dudes get murdered by two big bruisers, some great bumps (one guy tries a Ziggler esque monkey flip bump off an exploder and nearly cripples himself) and despite being an extended squash its pure fun. Match is here:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) @ posting the southern tags. I was probably gonna skip on Smackdown till tomorrow anyways so I plan on making those my priority for the night.

Ooooh. I dig matches like that. I remember one like that from Chikara back in 2005. (It included Necro Butcher, so that's probably why it ruled)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> (Y) @ posting the southern tags. I was probably gonna skip on Smackdown till tomorrow anyways so I plan on making those my priority for the night.
> 
> Ooooh. I dig matches like that. I remember one like that from Chikara back in 2005. (It included Necro Butcher, so that's probably why it ruled)


Got a text from one of my best friends a while ago because his roommate is big into wrestling and Necro Butcher bled on him once in the crowd of a show. Very proud of it. :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched Rock v Goldberg for the first time. Liked it a lot and the Rock was pretty fucking great in it. With a really good crowd it would be a much, much more memorable match. Fuck's sake I hate most 2002-2003 WWE crowds. 'holy shit' 'we want tables' 'one more time'. Shut the fuck up I will burn you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Got a text from one of my best friends a while ago because his roommate is big into wrestling and Necro Butcher bled on him once in the crowd of a show. Very proud of it. :lmao


:lmao :lmao 

AWESOME. He's so great. During his entrance he high fived me, but kept the grip on my hand shouting, and saying, that he was gonna demolish the guy in the ring and I was marking out so much.

Best 2002 crowd was Survivor Series 2002. They had an excuse to chant "we want tables". 8*D


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Kane vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 14. Very good match, the best match they have had with each other by far IMO. Some great spots like Undertaker going through the announcers table and also some close nearfalls. Kane's character was also very well booked throughout this match because he was dominating the whole match and it took three tombstones to beat him and even after that he wasn't hurt as he attacked Taker after the match lol. 

I'm going to watch the rest of Kane - Taker matches but apprantly this was their only good match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, they had two good matches out of their 3 in 2010. No Holds Barred & Buried Alive. Their original Inferno match wasn't bad either. The only real abyssmal mark in their series was the Hell in a Cell. Which should have been their biggest bout considering the story.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4zmlq_sd-04-04-08-kane-vs-undertaker_sport#.UKb-oIcsnSg

This match is really, really fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, fun stuff. I'd put that above their match at WrestleMania 20. I liked the progression of the story going from less than aggressive chain wrestling to a slugfest once the intensity got upped. Finish was logical and fitting for the current programs going down.

Some more random watches:

*Survivor Series 1995* - _Elimination Match_
Bertha Faye, Aja Kong, Lioness Asuka, & Tomoko Watanabe vs Alundra Blayze, Kyoko Inoue, Chaparita Asari, & Sakie Hasegawa ~ **1/2

*RAW 11/20/95*
Alundra Blayze & Kyoko Inoue vs Aja Kong & Tomoko Watanabe ~ ***

*NXT 8/29/12* - _Gold Rush Tournament Finals_ - _NXT Championship_
Seth Rollins vs Jinder Mahal ~ ***1/2​
Best Jinder Mahal match, ever. I'm not sold on him at all, but now it's evident with the right opponent he can be a pretty solid heel to work a match with. As unappealing as it might sound for him, working in NXT fits him SO much better than in the WWE. But, it's that tad bit of experience from working in the E that gives him his slight appeal while in NXT. Almost like he's a big fish in a little pond type deal so it makes it all the more bigger for the NXT guys to defeat him. I'll always be one of the biggest supporters of Tyler Black/Seth Rollins. The guy is uber-talented and I'm not gonna think otherwise. About went APE POOP when he recreated his running turnbuckle powerbomb spot on Mahal to lead into the Blackout to win the match. Shades of his matches vs Danielson went flying through my head. Nostalgia. Sometimes that's all you need to get a high. This could go up a tad on a second watch.

Elmination match was hindered by time and slight communication issues, but it still ruled for what it was. And 100x time better than anything the WWE has dished out with "divas" in the last few years. Probably could go past a few years, tbhayley. Bertha Faye is pretty trashy, but the rest were all worth watching. [/Obligatory AJA KONG mark comment.]

Joshi tag on RAW was even better. Lowered the number of women in the match and gave it more time/focus and it really showed that it can make a difference. Plus, Inoue needed another match with the company. Ref fucked her over by counting her shoulders down at Survivor Series when it clearly wasn't meant to occur. KONG owns Blayze again here which leads to my increasing anger since KONG was no doubt gonna get a push towards the championship vs Blayze. Only she hightailed it for WCW like a week after this resulting in nothing. Boo.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

http://shop.wwe.com/WWE:-The-Attitu..._W04706_color=No Color&start=2&q=attitude era

the cover looks dope :mark: 

i'm hyped


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81dto_fit-finlay-vs-lord-steven-regal_sport#.UKdtCYfBF8E

Fuck me. Brilliant. Everything I want a wrestling match to be with Regal & Finlay. I don't care about the random finish. ****.

:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Where is Rikishi (and Too Cool for that matter) on that cover? He played a rather big part in the Attitude era. 

Being a main eventer for most of the year 2000, being revelaed as the man that ran down Austin in a huge angle and overall one of the most popular wrestler at that time. Yet he's not on the cover but Jackie is?!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That 04/04/08 Taker/Kane match is all sorts of win. Seeing two 290+ pounders go hold for hold is definitely a treat and IIRC this was the time when Taker' started incorporating a lot more MMA-Based offence - His heel trips, armbars and I believe it was about then that he started using Hell's Gate? And obviously he's famous for his epic strikes. Anyway, it's definitely interesting to see Kane match Taker for a lot of it because it's very rare to see Kane doing that, but seeing him do it so well and so convincingly just backs up my claim that he is one of, if not THE, most versatile worker in WWE this millennium. Also I loved the Old-School thing that they both did fairly early in the match, can't remember that being done but it was a very nice touch.

The way the match eventually breaks down in to an all out slug fest, what you'd expect from these two, is great and most certainly makes sense due to the stalemate between the two with the catch as catch can style of wrestling in the beginning. Yeah the ending sucks a little bit, but it made sense. I would love to have seen a full match between the two following this formula, with a decisive winner. But none the less, it definitely is entertaining. Good find (Y)


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Nice old school style cover.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Woah, people pimping Undertaker/Kane SD 08 match? About time guys! I've been loving it since it happened lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saw it once back when it aired. Was pretty lethargic during the early part of 2008 so it's no surprise that I dismissed it. I remembered Undertaker vs Festus the next week much more vividly :lol


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81dto_fit-finlay-vs-lord-steven-regal_sport#.UKdtCYfBF8E
> 
> Fuck me. Brilliant. Everything I want a wrestling match to be with Regal & Finlay. I don't care about the random finish. ****.
> 
> :mark: :mark: :mark:


Watched this and hold it as high as you do. Wonderfully violent with some stiff strikes, unique touches in the mat wrestling (Finlay stamping on Regal's hand just because he can) and both men taking some fine bumps (Finlay getting dropkicked to the floor only to then drop Regal throat first on the guardrail was really bossy). They're as slick and violent as ever and just have this seamless chemistry to work an absurd amount of different matches.

You seen their Uncensored '96 match? Top 5 match in WCW history imo and their absolute best match together. Might just be better than the best Benoit/Regal match and just below Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day 06 in terms of best matches between all three. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xg...steven-regal-vs-fit-finlay_sport#.UKeOqYYybk8

Their parking lot brawl is also ridiculously violent for the short time it gets. Made my top 100 WCW matches list alongside the Uncensored match. Feels like something you'd see on Memphis/Mid South TV circa 1985.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk...t-finlay-parking-lot-brawl_sport#.UKeQIIYybk8


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe...r_Series_DVD_Cover_Kharma_Back_In_Action.html


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I watched ALL of those matches tonight. Unreal. I haven't watched any matches since those since I know my level of marking out right now can't exceed the level that the Finlay/Regal bouts hit. Parking Lot Brawl is so nuts. It's probably the most violent match from WCW. At least off the top of my head. Bischoff freaking out about how violent it was and having the camera slowly but surely pan further away as it escalated. Laugh worthy, but was true to form since that match was brutal as holy hell.

First time for the Uncensored match tonight. Worth the wait. Holy crap that might be my favorite WCW match. Which says a whole hell of a lot. I'd put it at the full 5 snowflakes if it had a stronger finish. Or a clean one at that.

Btw, as if the rep comment wasn't enough of an answer: Midnight Express vs Fabulous Ones was :mark: I about had the ultimate mark out cream session the moment the Express began their face in peril segment. Then the lead to the second FIP segment was even BETTER. Eaton sidestepping Fulton only to see him launch into the waiting arms of Lane to be driven directly into the guardrail. Epic.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd only have 2 Flair/Steamboat matches (COTC and Landover House Show), Steamboat vs Rude Iron Man and War Games 1992 ahead of Finlay/Regal from WCW. Eddie/Rey Halloween Havoc could rise above it, but for now I'd have it just a step below.

Bischoff's commentary and shock to what he's seeing does make the parking lot brawl that much better.

Don't you mean the Fantastics  . Fabulous Ones are really fucking good as well though, especially their series against the Moondogs with the incredible stretcher match. Fantastics/Midnight Express is amazing though, and like I said no worse than top 3 all time for US tags although the only match I can think of as being potentially better is the Final Conflict '83 Steel cage match with Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernodle and even that doesn't really feel as good as the '88 tag on last watch. So aye, Fantastics/Express 4/26/88 is currently my #1 all time US tag.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lmao, fuck me.  Yes, Fantastics. Not Lane & Skinner back in the day with their hilarious vignettes. Hate to say it, but for as much as I know about the Final Conflict bout I have never seen it. Just one of those legendary matches that I go around claiming "I hear great things", but can't put a opinion too. (although I'm sure I'll dig it) This tag seems to round out in my top 3 currently. I still have Midnight vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 at number one, I gush over that match like you cannot believe, and I still like to include Steamboat/Douglas vs Windham/Pillman from Starrcade '92. But, I think I'd surprising put Midnight/Fantastics a touch over the Starrcade tag at #2. Just happened to wish I owned the tag on DVD.

Well since I've never seen the house show Flair vs Steamboat match then our lists differ with that and Eddie/Mysterio making my top 5. My final slot would probably be Wargames '91 or Pillman/Liger Superbrawl '92. Don't know which I prefer since they're both unbelievable and two very distinct types of matches. Btw, is that Flair vs Steamboat match the one Meltzer gave "six stars" to?

Yep, I thought that too. Bischoff's reaction made the fight feel so legit and raw. No pun intended, of course.

Also watched a match that evaded me, but it fell under my umbrella worth praising Bam Bam Bigelow. His match vs Barry Windham @ Starrcade '88 for United States Championship. Soooo glad I watched it. ****. Great, great match. Think it upstaged Windham vs Rhodes from GAB '88 for me and that is one I adore.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its part of two matches they have on the same day. Think Philadelphia is the first match and then a few hours later they're wrestling in Landover and even do a callback spot to the Philadelphia match (or Landover depending on which comes first, though I think Landover is the second match). I know Meltzer does gush over the House Show matches and it might very well be one of those two.

Midnight Express/Southern Boys made my top 10 in WCW history, with the RnR Express/Midnight Express tag from Wrestlewar the same year just ahead of it. Steamboat/Rhodes vs Anderson/Zbyszko 11/19/91 would also be in my top 5 tags in US history. Its Steamboats' return to the NWA/WCW and Arn sells it perfectly like an old enemy is back to ruin his life once again. Doesn't hurt that all 4 men in it are amongst the finest tag wrestlers of all time. Think this was #6 on my WCW ballot.

The Starrcade 92 tag made my top 20 for WCW, loved it and it was a really strong match. The Superbrawl II match with Windham/Rhodes vs Austin/Zybszko is also another overlooked great WCW tag. Arn/Vader vs Stars n Stripes from 95 is also the best WCW match from that year and another gem of a tag.

Speaking of Rhodes, you seen Dustin Rhodes vs Vader from 92 and 94? Both great matches but the rematch in 94 is legit incredible. Rhodes is as good a foil for Vader as Sting and really plays the surprisngly believable babyface really well despite his great size, and the way they build to him finally taking Vader down and the resulting crowd pop is beautiful pro wrestling.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hailsabin said:


> Saw it once back when it aired. Was pretty lethargic during the early part of 2008 so it's no surprise that I dismissed it. I remembered Undertaker vs Festus the next week much more vividly :lol


And I hope your vivid memory of Undertaker/Festus is that is was good! 

Regal/Finlay Uncensored is just... wow. Matches I have ahead of it for the WCW Poll:

1.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
2.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993
3.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the Regal-Finlay match from TGAB 2006 that the crowd basically shit all over ? I really enjoyed it besides all of the Hornswoggle shenanigans , but maybe I'm just a little INNNSAAAAAANNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Thoughts on the Regal-Finlay match from TGAB 2006 that the crowd basically shit all over ? I really enjoyed it besides all of the Hornswoggle shenanigans , but maybe I'm just a little INNNSAAAAAANNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !


*Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Great American Bash July 23rd 2006*

:lmao at Finlay and Regal trying to be hip with Teddy Long before the match, doing some cool handshake crap . Looked more out of place than Chavo in a PPV main event.

Regal looks like he is not going to have any part of fighting his friend, so he is about to leave the ring, when Finlay runs up from behind and rolls him up! Regal doesn't like that, so he gets up and slaps Finlay in the face. Now its on!

After a long tie up (which goes to the outside, then up the steps and back into the ring lol), Regal slaps Finlay again, to show him that its REALLY on, and the first slap wasn't JUST payback for the roll up attempt. Regal dominates early on, and its great to see. He takes Finlay down and then Finlay counters by standing on his head and essentially break dancing :lmao. Awesome looking sequence tbh, but also a little funny .

Speaking of funny; watching Regal running away from a midget with a Shillelagh might be the funniest thing I have seen all week.

Awesome European uppercut exchanges from the two, needs to happen more often dammit!

Poor Regal gets attacked by Hornswoggle again, who ends up biting his hand. Why can't Hornswoggle be good again like this? 

All the way through the match, we get some tremendous back and forth action, great offence from both men, and plenty of stiffness. Shame the fans in attendance are chanting boring. I knew this match should have had more tables and ladders!

Nice old school finish to the match, with Finlay hitting Regal in the head with his own boot (which Hornswoggle stole earlier lol) and then using the ropes to get the 3 count.

Gotta say, as good as these two guys are in the ring together, I always remembered this match being pretty, well, shit. Not any more though! Great match, and probably one of their best together from this year!

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

*In Your House: 16 Canadian Stampede ~ 7/6/97*

Bradshaw and Barry Windham vs. The Godwinns
*3/4 ~ Really hot crowd that made a pretty bad match okay.

Triple H vs. Mankind
*** ~ Really enjoyed the Chyna antics and the brawling segments after the match

TAKA Michonoku vs. The Great Sasuke
**3/4 ~ AMAZING Spots, but there was always some awkward moments between every WOW moment that pulled the match down a lot for me. 

WWF Championship
Vader vs. The Undertaker
*** ~ Great big man match. DAT 2ND ROPE CHOKESLAM

The Hart Foundation vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Goldust, The Legion of Doom, and Ken Shamrock
**** ~ The crowd was INSANE and it benefited the match greatly. Phenomenal match, but I didn't see the need in Owen and Austin getting injured and returning during the match. The finish wasn't that great either, but the post match was great just to see Stone Cold in handcuffs walking up the ramp while the Canadian crowd boos him.

All in all, good show. Thoughts?​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I watched Regal/Finlay GAB recently. I like it, but it's a little disappointing.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Loving the old school theme on the cover of the Best PPV Matches of 2012 set. Excellent choice having the MOTY on top too (Y) 

I also want to see Raw EC, Sheamus/Bryan ER, SD MITB Match, Brock/Hunter SS, Orton/Ziggler NOC, and Sheamus/Show HIAC make the set. I'm guessing Punk/Bryan from OTL won't be included which is fine since it's on Punk's DVD and we're getting the MITB encounter.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


>


This is epic. Might actually be a decent set too.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Interesting. For a best matches of 2012 DVD I would like to see:

Taker/HHH - WrestleMania
Bryan/Punk - Over The Limit
Brock/Cena - Extreme Rules
Sheamus/ Bryan - Extreme Rules
Jericho/Punk - Extreme Rules
Ziggler/Sheamus - No Way Out (or one of their TV matches)
Smackdown MITB match
Lesnar/HHH Summerslam


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone else watched the new LOW: Roundtable yet? Its the History of Raw edition, with Mene Gene, JR, Patterson, Hayes and Road Dogg. Basically seems more like a "best of the AE Raw, with some other era stuff mentioned here and there" thrown out to aid as marketing for the upcoming Attitude Era set lol. I still enjoyed it though, always like the Roundtable shows.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Is Angle vs Lesnar in 07 worth a watch? I'm assuming it's not


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


>


This cover looks great. Hopefully, the right matches are on the set, and I'll buy!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ether said:


> Is Angle vs Lesnar in 07 worth a watch? I'm assuming it's not


Nah it stinks.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

When the tits did Angle and Lesnar wrestle in '07?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Happened in New Japan I think?


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

> implying Rock vs Cena was one of the best PPV matches this year.

But seriously that cover looks pretty cool.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> Its part of two matches they have on the same day. Think Philadelphia is the first match and then a few hours later they're wrestling in Landover and even do a callback spot to the Philadelphia match (or Landover depending on which comes first, though I think Landover is the second match). I know Meltzer does gush over the House Show matches and it might very well be one of those two.
> 
> Midnight Express/Southern Boys made my top 10 in WCW history, with the RnR Express/Midnight Express tag from Wrestlewar the same year just ahead of it. Steamboat/Rhodes vs Anderson/Zbyszko 11/19/91 would also be in my top 5 tags in US history. Its Steamboats' return to the NWA/WCW and Arn sells it perfectly like an old enemy is back to ruin his life once again. Doesn't hurt that all 4 men in it are amongst the finest tag wrestlers of all time. Think this was #6 on my WCW ballot.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'll get on one, or both if possible, of their house show affairs. I have all of their other televised matches in my collection so at least I got a bite on the legendary series. 

Don't know why my memory is clouded, but I don't even remember a brief departure for Steamboat that caused him to return in '91. Then again it seemed like he faded away following WrestleWar '89. Either way, I'm gonna look for ALL of those tags and see if I can luck out on dailymotion _(or youtube)_ and watch them. Seen all of those stellar Dangerous Alliance tags so giving them another go around is gonna rock. 

Toss in the Vader/Rhodes matches to ones I want to find too. I know I've seen one of those. Not both however. Think it was the '92 over the '94. So if the rematch is even stronger then yeah, I have to witness it. Loved all the Vader vs Sting matches. No doubt. That chemistry, wonderful.

Speaking of top WCW matches, where do you have Malenko vs Dragon from Starrcade '96? Say what you will about Dean's dull tendencies, but damn I might have to go out on limb and claim that to be his best match in the whole of his tenure. Probably my favorite opener from a WCW PPV too. And it didn't even make the top 25 matches on the Starrcade DVD set brought out by WWE. AHHHHHH.



KingCal said:


> And I hope your vivid memory of Undertaker/Festus is that is was good!
> 
> Regal/Finlay Uncensored is just... wow. Matches I have ahead of it for the WCW Poll:
> 
> ...


Oh it is. Only was about a 6 minute match, but I'm glad it went down. I liked how Vickie/Edge stacked the deck against Undertaker the 4 Smackdown's in a row heading into Backlash. vs Kane, vs Festus, vs Big Dave x2. I should relive the matches vs Batista and see if they're some fun matches to compare with the bulk of their awesome stuff in 2007.

Steamboat vs Vader clash on Saturday Night too? I have a match of theirs from the same year, or maybe it was 92..., and it was from Worldwide. All I know is that it owned. My personal favorite big man ever in Vader _(ok, if he's a big man too then Undertaker ties w/him)_ and one of the best babyfaces ever in Steamboat. Obviously it was gonna hit a high mark.

Finlay vs Regal is gonna remain a *top 5* match for me from WCW. I already watched it again today, haha.



K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> Thoughts on the Regal-Finlay match from TGAB 2006 that the crowd basically shit all over ? I really enjoyed it besides all of the Hornswoggle shenanigans , but maybe I'm just a little INNNSAAAAAANNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !


A lot of fun. Certainly not their best match, but still glad the WWE was wise enough to give it to us either way. By happenstance of course since it was originally scheduled to be a triple threat w/Lashley. ***1/2. Seems to be the majority consensus on the bout.

Oh and yeah, BROCK vs Angle in '07 was from NJPW. Standard post-WWE Angle fare. Kurt's matches in Japan can be fun though. I know he had entertaining bouts with the likes of Shinsuke Nakamura _(aka the current GOAT imo)_, Hiroshi Tanahashi, & Giant Bernard aka Tensai or his 100 other names.

And to add MORE to this continued post, I FINALLY watched the* "Ric Flair & The Four Horseman"* documentary. Bought it well over a month ago. Superb stuff. Pretty gritty. They really gave you the majority of details. Tully even mentioned COKE. Something Shawn's doc _(Heartbreak and Triumph)_ beat around the bush on so many fucking times that it pissed me off. My favorite documentary behind Rise And Fall of ECW. Which is number one simply due to it being the flat out most revealing doc available by WWE. As if I needed a reason to be hyped more to watch NWA/WCW stuff, that documentary did it. Only match I took the time to watch was Flair vs Arn from Fall Brawl. Grand. I know the rest comply. Original Wargames, Flair vs Morton in the Cage, some Arn & Tully tags. Yeah, gonna have fun when I give those a look.

I'll probably shoot a mini-review on either the Rise & Fall of WCW or Starrcade sets later today. So many stellar matches on there that I feel like marking over. Especially on the RAF of WCW Disc 1. Two of the best tags ever, Flair vs Steamboat '89 I, Flair vs Magnum, WINDHAM VS RHODES GAB, and even what I consider to be only Hogan's good match in the company vs Flair at BATB '94. :mark:

Oh, and the Best PPV matches of 2012 set should be choice. Won't have any reason to own it since I own all the PPVs from 2012, but given the matches I'll reccomend. Punk vs Danielson getting a cover spot over the MOTY in Cena vs BROCK is pretty awesome. My two favorite matches from WWE this year.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Brock vs Cena would have been 5 star if Lesnar had won. I'm not an anti-Cena fan but he shouldn't have won that match. It was pretty pointless making him win against Lesnar and then lose to Laurinitis in the following PPV as well. The match (Lesnar - Cena) was still awesome (4 star) though because I was never expecting WWE to add blood in the match, especially in this day and age. Not only that, it was very well booked (before the ending, of course).


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

RevolverSnake said:


> > implying Rock vs Cena was one of the best PPV matches this year.
> 
> But seriously that cover looks pretty cool.


Well, it was the most hyped match of the year. It's only natural that they feature it on the cover. Speaking of the cover, I love it. I plan on picking up this set once it comes out as well as the other best PPV matches sets they've put out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> Brock vs Cena would have been 5 star if Lesnar had won. I'm not an anti-Cena fan but he shouldn't have won that match. It was pretty pointless making him win against Lesnar and then lose to Laurinitis in the following PPV as well. The match (Lesnar - Cena) was still awesome (4 star) though because I was never expecting WWE to add blood in the match, especially in this day and age. Not only that, it was very well booked (before the ending, of course).


****3/4.

Booking was fine. I wanted BROCK to win myself, but considering Cena lost to Rock at WrestleMania it was needed. Unless the WWE was gonna do the downward spiral angle that Starbuck presented. That's only indication I can see Cena losing being needed in.

I blame Rock for all of this.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Happened in New Japan I think?


IGF.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was it really? FUCK. Guess that's true since BROCK split from NJPW to go to IGF. Which sparked the championship controversy.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> ****3/4.
> 
> Booking was fine. I wanted BROCK to win myself, but considering Cena lost to Rock at WrestleMania it was needed. Unless the WWE was gonna do the downward spiral angle that Starbuck presented. That's only indication I can see Cena losing being needed in.
> 
> I blame Rock for all of this.


 I wouldn't say it was needed because Cena has now reached a point where losing matches doesn't hurt him as much. Lesnar needed the win more than Cena did but after the match, all the appeal and hype about Lesnar was gone. He just became another guy who loses matches. Imagine the build up to his potential match with Taker. Lesnar has beaten Cena and HHH, two of the biggest stars and now he faces Undertaker. Both are undefeated; Lesnar undefeated since returning and Taker undefeated at Wrestlemania. IMO, it's a bad idea to make your highest paid wrestler lose in his first match. It's like Goldberg losing to the Rock in his very first WWE match. Only difference is that Lesnar lost. 

On the Rock match, I didn't really mind who won but a loss doesn't really hurt Cena for two main reasons. Firstly, it could be argued that the torch was passed to Cena when he defeated both HBK and HHH at Wrestlemania and he has achieved almost everything in the WWE (only thing he hasn't won is the IC title). Secondly, he will eventually beat the Rock in the future to make up for his loss at WM 28 which makes it 1-1 between Rock and Cena.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Chiller88 said:


> Well, it was the most hyped match of the year. It's only natural that they feature it on the cover. Speaking of the cover, I love it. I plan on picking up this set once it comes out as well as the other best PPV matches sets they've put out.


Yeah, I know, I was just joking.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I stand by my point. Cena winning was fine given what occured at WM and what would occur for Over The Limit. Especially with the story that was told during the build and match wise vs Brock. Brock is a guy who's gonna work about 3 matches with this return. Loses one, wins the other to make up for it. What you say about Cena being fine in losing matches works in the same light with Brock. Especially since the guy he defeated was Triple H and it's been treated as if that was really The Game's final match ever.

Cena only had two ways to go in the match vs Brock. Win and triumph over the downward spiral or lose and continue with the downward spiral. There was no other option.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> I stand by my point. Cena winning was fine given what occured at WM and what would occur for Over The Limit. Especially with the story that was told during the build and match wise vs Brock. Brock is a guy who's gonna work about 3 matches with this return. Loses one, wins the other to make up for it. What you say about Cena being fine in losing matches works in the same light with Brock. Especially since the guy he defeated was Triple H and it's been treated as if that was really The Game's final match ever.
> 
> Cena only had two ways to go in the match vs Brock. Win and triumph over the downward spiral or lose and continue with the downward spiral. There was no other option.


 I doubt WWE would have made Cena lose three times in a row. He was always going to triumph over his short lived downward spiral. Losing to high profile names like Rock and Lesnar doesn't hurt his credibility at all. They give Lesnar a 5 million contract and have him lose in his first match by just 2 moves? It also didn't add to Cena's character at all. Cena said the Rock match meant everything to him and he was selling the loss perfectly fine but then he defeats Lesnar, feuds with John Laurinitis and becomes the same character. It's like nothing happened at all. The Rock loss was meant to have a long term affect on Cena's character but it just lasted a month. It just doesn't make sense to bring a high drawing name like Lesnar and make him lose in his first match since 2004 considering all the hype that was made about him. Yeah sure he made HHH 'retire' but it doesn't change the fact that he lost in his return match against a John Cena that was low on confidence. As I said before, John Cena was always going to triumph at the end but his triumph was just too soon IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not gonna argue with the booking flaws b/c they were just that. Flaws. Cena put all of that importance vs The Rock, lost, and it felt like nothing ever happened. Sure they incorporated it as if it was gonna lead to something, but it didn't. That's the WWE's fault. It's also their fault that he went from losing to Rock, to beating Lesnar, to losing to Ace, and beating Show. The latter two being programs that nobody really cared for from the start. So I think this all stems from the WWE's apparent lack of direction this year on some things. Cena finally got some steady momentum when won MITB, granted it was painfully obvious, and began the series vs Punk again.

It made sense to have Brock there to be the guy who was gonna be the "new face of the WWE" by Ace. His loss actually incorporated with the Triple H storyline fine. That's really where the basis of it came from. He loses, still demands this and that leading to H claiming why they would give it to him when he couldn't even topple the current "face of the company." Take it from there. So that was fine for Brock. Like I said, didn't hurt him either. No real use in the gripe anymore as it has come and past. Brock was last seen on a high note and that's good enough for him to return and make a claim for a potential WrestleMania match.

Have to chime in that the finish of the match at Extreme Rules was well done. But, more importantly believable. Brock demolished Cena. Never attempted to cover or win the match, however. That's the key. He simply wanted to beat the crap out of the man. He let his ego get the better of him and flew directly into a massive punch from Cena WITH A CHAIN. You seen Cena's hands? They're massive. Combined with steel chain and forget about it. Brock was bleeding, disoriented, and didn't know where he was at. Combine that with an F-U on the steel steps followed by a quick cover and there you go. Cena capitalized on his one chance. Brock had Cena beat numerous times in the match. He simply was too cocky to try and take the W. He was his own worst enemy at the end. If there ever was a way for Brock to leave that match fine, that was it.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I watched Batista/Eddie again tonight and after bashing it so much the first time, I actually liked it a lot this time around. Not because the match had so much awesome wrestling, but because of the story of the match. 

Match starts of with Batista overpowering Eddie in everything they do, then Eddie gets the upper hand when he uses the ropes and hits the frog splash on Batista's back. After that move Eddie just attacks Batista's back, trying to injure him enough so he cant do his big power moves. During this whole time there is another story happening. Eddie ends up getting a couple of chances to cheat by using a steel chair, and exposing the steel turnbuckle, but you can see him struggling because he is trying to change from his old ways. Towards the end of the match Batista makes a comeback and tries to do the Batista Bomb on Eddie, but his back is too injured so he fails. Eddie tries to do a frog splash, Batista moves out of the way and ends up hitting a spinebuster for a quick 3 count. Loved both of the stories of the match. ***1/4 in my opinion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Only seen it the one time, myself. Probably gonna have to give it another chance too. Whenever I get a copy of No Mercy 2005.


*Rise & Fall of WCW* - *Disc 1*:

1) *NWA 6/15/85* - _10 Minute $1,000 Challenge_
Ric Flair vs Magnum TA ~ ****


2) *NWA The Main Event 4/3/88*
Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, & Tully Blanchard vs Barry Windham, Sting, & Lex Luger ~ ****


3) *The Great American Bash 1988* - _NWA United States Championship_
Barry Windham(c) vs Dusty Rhodes ~ ***3/4


4) *Chi-Town Rumble* - _NWA World Championship_
Ric Flair(c) vs Ricky Steamboat ~ *****


5) *Wrestle War 1990*
Midnight Express _(Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane)_ vs Rock N' Roll Express _(Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)_ ~ ****3/4


6) *The Great American Bash 1990* - _NWA United States Tag Team Championship_
Midnight Express _(Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane)_ vs The Southern Boys _(Tracy Smothers & Steve Armstrong)_ ~ *****


7) *Superbrawl* - _WCW Tag Team Championship_
Scott Steiner & Rick Steiner vs Sting & Lex Luger ~ ***3/4


8) *The Great American Bash 1992* - _WCW World Championship_
Sting(c) vs Vader ~ ****


9) *Spring Stampede 1994* - _WCW International World Championship_
Rick Rude(c) vs Sting ~ *1/2


10) *Bash at the Beach 1994* - _WCW World Championship_
Ric Flair(c) vs Hulk Hogan ~ ***3/4​

~ So ignoring the one less than stellar contest in Sting vs Rude, this disc is chalk full of UNBELIEVABLE matches. Buy it now. Price is irrelevant and it should be at a lower price most places since it was released back in 2009. It was well worth 20 bucks then and it's a steal at any price below now. Combined with a decent second disc full of latter WCW matches and a solid documentary, you have to own it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Anyone else watched the new LOW: Roundtable yet? Its the History of Raw edition, with Mene Gene, JR, Patterson, Hayes and Road Dogg. Basically seems more like a "best of the AE Raw, with some other era stuff mentioned here and there" thrown out to aid as marketing for the upcoming Attitude Era set lol. I still enjoyed it though, always like the Roundtable shows.


I watched it the other day when it was first put On Demand. I always find some enjoy the discussions they have. JR was right on when he talked about WWE were forced into "a sense of urgency" as far as being creative and took risks. The federation really challenged themselves to make the most watchable product possible and some of that was lost when the Attitude Era ended and WCW was bought by McMahon. The discussion was Attitude Era heavy and I sense WWE will continue with more AE productions now that they don't have to edit & blur WWF anymore. The sales for the AE DVD will really indicate how much more focus we will see on DVDs for this period. WCW and ECW DVDs must be very profitable since they keep producing them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watching those '96 RAWs will show why they were losing. The 2 hour time slot wasn't the only obvious killer for the WWF to compete against, but the overall nature of the rival. RAW is fun to watch from a nostalgia standpoint, but they really couldn't compare to the product that WCW was unleashing at the time w/Nitro. "Younger" main event talent or not. It was a no contest. The Attitude Era was the best gamble they could try. Simply because it gave them their edge. As it showed, WWF w/an edge was able to demolish and eventually run away with the victory. 

That + the obvious in which WCW's booking didn't flourish in a different direction when it should have during the time WWF was getting traction. They latched onto the nWo storyline WAY too long. Neglected the players that could have helped them, at least, remain on an even level w/WWF circa '98 & beyond.


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

Holy shit. I just realized the Attitude Era logos aren't blurred and WORLD WRESTLING FEDERATION wasn't edited in the nWo DVD! This is so fucking exciting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well I rocked some WWF in 1995 so why not some WCW in that same year? Here we go:

*WCW Saturday Night 4/8/95*
The Bluebloods _(Steven Regal & Bobby Eaton)_ vs Red Tyler and Melvin Hagler ~ SQUASH


*WCW Saturday Night 4/15/95*
Vader & Arn Anderson vs Stars & Stripes _(The Patriot & Marcus Bagwell)_ ~ ****1/4


*WCW World War 3 1995*
Bull Nakano & Akira Hokuto vs Mayumi Ozaki & Cutie Suzuki ~ ****


*WCW World War 3 1995* - _WCW United States Championship_
Kensuke Sasaki(c) vs Chris Benoit ~ ***1/2​

I'm pretty burnt out atm so to make up for any proper reviews on the matches I'll simply feed into bullet point/quips...

~ Bluebloods match = squash. A damn fun one too. Only about 2 minutes but their easy disposal of the jobbers was magical. Had to see their debut when I found it. The video of Regal transforming Eaton from Alabama country boy to proper & pristine "Earl" Robert was probably my favorite segment from the 90's that didn't include The Undertaker or Mick Foley. It's _that_ spectacular.

~ Saturday Night Tag was FUN FUN FUN. Blast of a match. Great southern dynamic. Surprise to me that Patriot was the FIP for the match. I thought that screamed Bagwell. Big thanks to Segunda Caida for name dropping this. Never even knew it existed till he did. I could see that being my favorite WCW '95 match too.

~ Joshi tag was grand. Some of the transitions in the early portion were a tad wild. Easily forgiven. Joshi matches are so legit when it's the dainty, petite dames vs the monster types. No exception here. Coincidence that WCW & WWF had Joshi tags on their PPVs in the month of November during 1995? I think not. Glad they did it though. WCW's proved to be the stronger. Advantage was that they didn't have to work with 4 other women and be in a elimination style match for 9 minutes.

~ Benoit vs Sasuke was really good puro style bout. Fitting since Sasaki is Japanese and Benoit has plenty of work in that style. Ground game established early on. Fine wrestling work with the eventual lead into a nice mini finishing stretch. LARIAT by Sasaki rocked. GLORIOUS flying headbutt by Crippler in this one too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched the Jake 'The Snake' Roberts - Pick Your Poison DVD yestaerday, really compelling doc, learnt
alot about Roberts, always a fave of mine as a kid, when i watched him back in the day i obviously had no idea
of some of the shit he went/was/possibly still is going through,

He was such a legend in promos and on the mic, bloddy brilliant, loved his alliance with The Undertaker (was interesting
to hear Jake talk about their WM match and how it could have not hapened), also his fued with the Ultimate Warrior - 
with that fued Jake talked about the blowoff match at Summerslam and it never happebed as the Warrior demanding money shit, but
forgive my memoey but was that Summerslam? (i thought Warrior did that at SS92)

Also, people talk about The Oustiders/NWO and how they entered WCW, but when Jake entered was the same,
only before any of the NWO shit happened, when Jake left WWF, came through the crowd at WCW, dressed in normal clothes,
leather jacket and all, and straight attacked Sting - marvellous, everyone too of course knew who Roberts was.

Long post for me lol but i always love revisiting the wrestling from when i was a kid, also reminded me of his fued
with Savage, the snake bit, the attack at Savage/Elizabeth's reception (i think) and when The Undertaker 'turned' on
Jake to help Savage.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jake set is a favourite of mine. Tremendous documentary. Really helps explain why Jake is so fucked up. Kinda like Scott Hall (he shot and killed someone); shit happened to them when they were younger and unfortunately its stuck with them and ruined their lives.

Matches on the Jake set can be hit and miss, but there are some solid and fun matches from his early career, and a personal favourite of mine from SMW against the Dirty White Boy in one of the better examples of Jake being a master of ring psychology. Sting match is garbage though, as is the ECW match.

Promos on the set are :mark:. Some great stuff, as well as the Ultimate Warrior vignettes which are awesome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Maybe I'll get on one, or both if possible, of their house show affairs. I have all of their other televised matches in my collection so at least I got a bite on the legendary series.
> 
> Don't know why my memory is clouded, but I don't even remember a brief departure for Steamboat that caused him to return in '91. Then again it seemed like he faded away following WrestleWar '89. Either way, I'm gonna look for ALL of those tags and see if I can luck out on dailymotion _(or youtube)_ and watch them. Seen all of those stellar Dangerous Alliance tags so giving them another go around is gonna rock.
> 
> ...


Yeah I can't remember exactly if Steamboat was gone for a while, but I recall them selling it like he'd returned, especially with how freaked out Arn was that Steamboat was back. Maybe it was a mini hiatus or maybe as you said this was one of the first prominent matches he'd been in since '89, here's the match anyways:

Steamboat/Rhodes vs Arn/Zbyszko : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4...tin-rhodes-v_sport?search_algo=2#.UKjTaoYybk8

Dustin Rhodes vs Vader (Saturday Night 11/21/92) : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x97otz_dustin-rhodes-vs-vader_sport?search_algo=2#.UKjUd4Yybk8

Dustin Rhodes vs Vader (COTC XXIX 11/16/94) : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ah4m_vader-vs-dustin-rhodes_sport?search_algo=2#.UKjUpoYybk8

Had the '94 match as my #30 in WCW history, but truth be told it would be closer to top 10 these days having rewatched it. Just an amazing underdog babyface performance from Rhodes complimented by Vader delivering as the ruthless monster, but with the added benefit of Rhodes being big enough to hurt Vader and them teasing and building to that moment in beautiful fashion.

Assuming I'm not confusing it with another match they had, Malenko/Ultimo really surprised me and ended up making my final list which did shock me considering I don't think much of either guy as a worker. Having just checked it made my #85. Think there were other matches worked closer to my preferred style which is why I kept it that low, because its certainly a good match but given what WCW was putting out from 89-94 in particular most of my list was dominated by those years and the endless tags and singles matches of absolute quality.

Speaking of further underrated tags, Faces of Fear vs Jericho and Eddie from Nitro 2/24/97 is another gem:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Steamboat toured around in 90 and joined WWF in 91. The 11/91 Clash was his WCW return.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

RyanPelley said:


> Holy shit. I just realized the Attitude Era logos aren't blurred and WORLD WRESTLING FEDERATION wasn't edited in the nWo DVD! This is so fucking exciting.


The lawsuit is over. Thank goodness. The edits for all these years have been horrible. Ruined that Mania Anthology set for me.



RevolverSnake said:


> > implying Rock vs Cena was one of the best PPV matches this year.


It was. Not the best by any standards from this year imo, but no harm in making available for this set. WWE wouldnt leave this match off the list.



Hailsabin said:


> ****3/4.
> 
> Booking was fine. I wanted BROCK to win myself, but considering Cena lost to Rock at WrestleMania it was needed. Unless the WWE was gonna do the downward spiral angle that Starbuck presented. That's only indication I can see Cena losing being needed in.
> 
> I blame Rock for all of this.


No need to blame Rock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TBH I thought they'd leave off Rock/Cena from the PPV matches set to try and drive sales of the Rock/Cena feud set. Would have been nice to leave it off too, that way they wouldn't have completely killed the word "best" any more than they already do .


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingCal said:


> TBH I thought they'd leave off Rock/Cena from the PPV matches set to try and drive sales of the Rock/Cena feud set. Would have been nice to leave it off too, that way they wouldn't have completely killed the word "best" any more than they already do .


WWE should have left off Undertaker/HHH and kept it for the 20-0 DVD sales too while we are at it.

:hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

True, I'd have no objections. Though at least Undertaker/HHH is deserving of being on a best of set .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock/Cena >>>>>>>>>>> that horrible match to the right of it on that cover!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Bryan MITB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rock/Cena, and I'm not a big fan of the MITB match either lol. Kane/Orton from WM was better than Rock/Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah I can't remember exactly if Steamboat was gone for a while, but I recall them selling it like he'd returned, especially with how freaked out Arn was that Steamboat was back. Maybe it was a mini hiatus or maybe as you said this was one of the first prominent matches he'd been in since '89, here's the match anyways:
> 
> Steamboat/Rhodes vs Arn/Zbyszko : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4...tin-rhodes-v_sport?search_algo=2#.UKjTaoYybk8
> 
> ...


Yeah1993 brought it up. Totally forgot about Steamboat's second stint with WWF in the very early 90's. One of those "if you blink, you'll miss it" type affairs. He was scheduled to work at Survivor Series '91, but by the time the event rolled around he was already out. So he showed up in WCW again swiftly.

I'll hit up all those matches tomorrow. Along with the Midnight Express 6 man that I haven't gotten around to. I blame all the mess of WCW goodness I find on dailymotion through recommendation lists.

Ultimo vs Malenko had a few, or maybe a handful, of matches in WCW around the late '96 - early '97 time. That's probably the right match. Especially if the date is next to it on your list. It made it nonetheless. That's (Y) 

YES. I own that Nitro on DVD so I'm well aware of the awesome presence of the tag. Reminds me of why I enjoyed Faces of Fear as a kid. Especially Haku/Meng. On a WWF MSG show in the 90's there was a Haku vs Davey Smith match that OWNED. Seems to be one of the most noteworthy Haku matches off the top of my head. Plus he had a fun Hogan encounter that's on Hogan's Unreleased Matches set. I liked his style.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Tbh, Cal hates Rock so you can't really take his opinion seriously when it come to Rock. You're very biased.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same can be said for Choke2Death against Punk. It goes both ways.

sorry, C2D. Only claiming what you've told us.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

True.

Can you get that new Roundtable on YouTube?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Same can be said for Choke2Death. It goes both ways.


I give credit when it's due. 

For instance, 27/6/2011 promo, SummerSlam contract signing, Over the Limit this year and MITB last year. But yeah, I'm a little bit biased and still, I try to be honest as often as possible.

------------------

That aside, I'm about to watch Judgment Day 05 now. Any thoughts? (And Eddie's heel turn has been AWESOME so far!)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think you're a fair guy given your disapproval. I was only bringing it up for the claim that was made on the last page.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I give Rock credit where its due too. Rock/Cena was a steaming pile of shit. Doesn't matter if I like the guy or not. He's had some great matches in the past.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok

What did you think of Rock/Hogan WM 18?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thought it was really good.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cal already covered it but yeah, his dislike for Rock doesn't extend to blindly hating every match he's in. Rock/Cena wasn't good for a number of reasons, the main two being the length of the match and neither guy really being able to work holds well enough to kill time like they did.

Rock/Hogan was somehow 10x the match Rock/Cena which is amazing considering Cena never fails to deliver in big main events. They nailed the length of the match to a tee, where it got enough time to build up the pseudo heel Rock, the crowd loving Hogan and the eventual finishing stretch. Rock/Hogan would have sucked similarly if they'd gone for a 30 minute match like Rock/Cena, which makes it all the more strange that WWE agents didn't think to follow a similar format given Rock had barely wrestled in 8 years and was hardly in a condition to wrestle a match of that length.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I don't the hate for the Wrestlemania 28 match. I liked it quite a bit. The Rock seemed somewhat technical in the match and it certainly felt like a big deal match. I can understand why people say it didn't live up to the hype. In many ways it didn't. But would it have even been possible to considering the year build and how much importance and emphasis was placed on it? Unlikely.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Rock/Cena match was fine, but far too long. They absolutely should've gone the Rock/Hogan route in that it should've been about 15 mins long. Rock/Cena dragged in the middle, but I loved the staredown at the start followed by the power exchanges and then Rock almost getting the early pin which totally threw Cena for a minute.

The ending was magical too; Rock channeling his '96-'97 days with a crossbody off the top rope only for Cena to use his freakish power to gain the advantage. Then, Cena lets his ego get the better of him by trying to mock Rocky, only for Rock to use the breather to nip up and finish him off for the win. Plus, the pop from the crowd when Rock wins is a moment for the ages, and a TRUE feel-good moment as 95% of the crowd wanted Rocky to win. 

Good match, just about worth the hype (crap as the build-up was). BUT I don't want to see a rematch. EVER.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All this talk about 2012 made me go back and watch a few matches from earlier this year to make me re-evaluate my opinion on the top matches ;

Brock-Cena ER 12 : *******

It's the match of the year. Period. It's amazing how great Brock was in his comeback match as compared to Rocky at Wrestlemania XXVIII. I don't think I'll ever forget this match as long as I live, and if I could take one story told in a wrestling match this year and say it deserves to live forever , it would be the imagine of BROCK destroying everything in his path with Cena basically catching him with a few big moves ; COMPLETELY believeable for all of you butt-hurt Cena marks. I didn't really like the booking per se , but they kind of fucked themselves over with the whole "ROCK" deal. A top 4 WWE-PG match ever and the second best NON-UNDERTAKER match since 2004.

Bryan-Punk OTL 12 : ***** 3/4*

This match is the "Angle-Benoit" of this new generation of competitors, a match we can look at and say "HEY, WRESTLING WORKS" as opposed to some of the shitty entertainment the E' cranks out from time to time. These two guys went out there and sold WRESTLING in the biggest company in the world. Of course, it's not QUITE as good as Angle-Benoit but it sold wrestling better than any match since then, which leads me too.....

Punk-Bryan MITB 12 : ******

Awesome, AWESOME match that had all the ability to be just as good as the OTL match-up except there were a few story flaws that really pissed me off... ONE ; the focus shifted off two guys trying to be the best in the world to AJ AJ AJ AJ AJ and it really pissed me off. It was almost (but not a 10th as bad) as the Eddie/Rey angle degenerating into the shitty Dominick angle. Secondly and most importantly, the kendo stick inclusion made AJ's incorporation of the chair almost ENTIRELY pointless. Those two flaws deduct heavy amounts of points from the match for me in what could have been a **** 3/4 encounter. Still fucking awesome and obviously the MOTN as anytime Punk and Bryan step up they deliver.

Taker-HHH HIAC WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*

Haven't changed my mind on this one at all. Still a classic Wrestlemania encounter between two of the greatest of all time inside the Cell with some amazing storytelling and great brutality. Here's one thing I didn't like and this is very surprising to even myself ; HBK's role in the match. I thought he was too over-the-top goofy in what should have been the most subtle story ever (which is what made the WM XXVII match better slightly IMO) . He gets a pass however, for one of the most amazing near-falls ever with the SCM-Pedigree combo. Fuck this match is amazing, but at the moment it's only my 4th best WWE match of the year (a travesty I know).

Punk-Jericho WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*

Storytelling 101 for sure. This is the quinissential example of a match being better on a rewatch compared to when you go to see it live. I don't even need to talk about how great this match is, you should just go and watch it to be honest because I can't do justice to the awesome story that Punk and Jericho convey here. I'm a big fan of the ER rematch, but that match doesn't even touch this one ... AT ALL. The DQ rule and how Punk sold it, being a man that was possessed but had to keep his calm = JIZZ.

*K1ngofK1ngs WWE 2012 Matches ****+ (In Order)*

1. Brock-Cena ER 12 : *******

2. Punk-Bryan OTL 12 : ***** 3/4*

3. Brock-HHH SS 12 : ***** 1/2*
4. Taker-HHH WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
5. Punk-Jericho WM XVIII : ***** 1/2*
6. Sheamus-Bryan ER 12 : ***** 1/2*

7. Punk-Cena NOC 12 : ***** 1/4*

8. Sheamus-Show HIAC 12 : ******
9. Punk-Henry RAW 4/2/12 : ******
10. Punk-Bryan MITB 12 : ******
11. Punk-Jericho ER 12 : ******
12. Punk-Bryan RAW 1/30 : ******

Still need to rewatch the other Punk-Bryan's and Sheamus-Bryan RAW matches. Punk is CLEARLY WWE's MVP of the year and I don't see how anybody can realistically argue that (Even C2D  ) 

FUCK IT ! Here's my top 30 WWE Matches of the PG Era so far as a bonus :

1. Taker-HBK WM XXV : *******
2. Taker-HBK WM XXVI : *******
3. Punk-Cena MITB 11 : *******
4. Brock-Cena ER 12 : *******

5. Taker-HHH WM XXVII : ***** 3/4*
6. Punk-Bryan OTL 12 : ***** 3/4*

7. Punk-Cena SS 11 : ***** 1/2*
8. HHH-Lesnar SS 12 : ***** 1/2*
9. Taker-HHH WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
10. Taker-Edge SS 08 : ***** 1/2*
11. Mysterio-Jericho BASH 09 : ***** 1/2*
12. Punk-Jericho WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
13. Sheamus-Bryan ER 12 : ***** 1/2*

14. Punk-Cena NOC 12 : ***** 1/4*
15. HBK-Jericho NM 08 : ***** 1/4*
16. Orton-Christian OTL 11 : ***** 1/4*
17. Orton-Christian SS 11 : ***** 1/4*
18. HBK-Jericho UNF 08 : ***** 1/4*
19. Ziggler-Bryan BR 10 : ***** 1/4*
20. SD EC 10 : ***** 1/4*

21. Punk-Hardy SS 09 : ******
22. Punk-Cena RAW 11 : ******
23. HHH-Hardy NM 08 : ******
24. DX vs Legacy SS 09 : ******
25. Mysterio-Morrison SD 09 : ******
26. Sheamus-Show HIAC 12 : ******
27. Batista-Cena ER 10 : ******
28. HHH-Cena-HBK SS 09 : ******
29. Punk-HHH NOC 11 : ******
30. Punk-Henry Raw 12 : ******

THAT WAS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. The first 20 are actually what I believe, it's just the 10 after that where I forgot some matches here and there.... Taker/Punk/Cena/HHH RULE DA PG ERA....................... PG ERA MATCHES >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attitude Era matches.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Someone should have had more heel qualities in the Rock/Cena match. As well as bringing the time of the match down.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Started watching some WWE stuff from the decade, thought I'd write a bit about one of the matches I never properly got around to watching before... 

*The Rock vs. Triple H - Iron Man Match (WWF Judgment Day 05/21/00)*
Holy fuck, Triple H was so badass in 2000. Seriously, his entrance is one of the most awesome things…ever. Looks like a boss walking down followed by Steph, Vince and Shane. Reminds me of how much I used to mark out for him despite hating him at the same time. Also forgot just how insane Rocky’s pops were, jesus, every single time he comes out it’s ridiculously loud, gives all of his matches from this time period a great atmosphere imo. Anyway…

Stare dwon at the start is great, they hate each other. Rock was always great at that kind of thing, talking shit to his opponents and looking angry before his matches. Absolutely loved the start of this, seeing stuff from these two we’ve never seen before because of them adapting to the match type. Rock going for the pin attempts early off the shoulder blocks and the roll ups was cool, and Trips’ going to the outside out of frustration was great. Already this feels like a really different type of match completely to what we’d usually get from these two, or any main event style match from the time, and I really dig it.

I really liked the first fall for The Rock, put over how Hunter will try and strategize but Rock is more full on with his offence so him countering the arm work Trips was going for into the Rock Bottom was great. The missed knee on the barricade was a good transition spot into the next portion of the match. Rock controlling the match and working over the leg is something I didn’t expect (never actually seen first half of this before, and what I have seen I can‘t really remember), but it’s really good, and Trips is great selling everything. Figure Four is a good spot, actually expected one of them to tap in the hold. The first two falls for Triple H are fine and dandy, he hit’s a desperation Pedigree out of nowhere for the first, sells the leg really well, and then small packages Rock for the second. The thing about this is, it’s really putting over both guys finishers as certain match enders, and having Rock remain out of it after the Pedigree for ages was a great touch and not being able to escape even a roll up for Trips’ second fall ruled.

I really dug them going to the outside with Rock still loopy from the Pedigree, and walking around like a drunk while Hunter goes on the attack. Rock hitting desperation stuff up the entrance isle, especially the back suplex was great. It didn’t look smooth, and it was kind of sloppy, but JR’s “Rock’s heart was in the suplex, but his head was not” really put over how groggy he still is and him not hitting the move smoothly really added to the match. JR fucking rules, not like I have to tell anyone that. When Rock comes back around he’s back in control, but Trips hits another huge desperation move for another fall, this time it’s a piledriver. Piledriver getting a fall was awesome to see. Triple H is selling the leg all the time, and both guys sell the fatigue and the effects of the match really well too.

The match kicks into higher gear after that fall and the arm drag off the top rope by Rock. Trips going for the sleeper could easily have been seen as trying to kill time, but it totally worked and it wasn’t even locked in for that long either, but it was a logical spot for Hunter and in the context of the match. The next fall for Rock seemed a little anticlimactic because Rock kind of fluffed the float over DDT, but who the hell is complaining there, for a guy who never wrestles these long matches it’s always going to happen. I like that all the falls up until this point have been desperation spots with big moves. 

The next part of the match completely rules. Rock is on the advantage after the DDT, and Trips gets desperate and sacrifices a fall by cracking Rock with a chair, but it’s ok because he can gain a fall straight back because Rock is out cold. I adore spots like that in these kind of matches. Trips then using the sleeper to get another fall was again, awesome stuff. Rock is totally dead now.

Loved The Rock getting back into it and hitting the Pedigree on the table which looked sick! Another great way to end a fall (by countout), and then followed by the McMahons coming back down and getting involved only for Michaels to get involved and allowing Rock to hit the People Elbow to tie things up. Crowd is molten by this point and it’s amazing. Rocky getting back into it after being down and out was a great baby face comeback moment. The crowd was testament to how good it was. Then DX gets involved and Taker’s video package starts playing in the background while everyone beats down The Rock. It’s an awesome moment and still had me freaking out like a child on this viewing. Crowd is insane, they really think Rock has it in the bag now because Taker has come to kill everyone and help him out and it makes for an amazing atmosphere. But it wasn’t to be. The swerve ending was great, pretty sure everyone knows how it ends. Crowd are pissed, but not in a ‘this sucks’ way, in a ‘I hate that bastard and I hate that he won’ way where they are just mad that the heel won.

Yeah, it got a tad overbooked towards the end (just like the backlash match), but it was hella fun, and the match that preceded it was absolutely superb on pretty much every level. Never felt like anything was done to kill time, everything felt logical and important, and all the falls were worked very well. Both guys put on brilliant performances too. I seriously loved this. *****1/2*


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Great review, Bubz.

It was indeed an awesome match. I watched it a month back. *****, imo.

From the work they did in the ring, to the hot crowd to the return of Taker. Just a great match.

HHH and Rock worked so damn well back in 00 and were both on fire in that year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Probably the second best match Rock ever had imo. Big fan of it.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

What is his best match in your opinion?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Agreed, second best Rock match. Top 5 Rock matches:

1. Vs Austin WM17 *****
2. Vs HHH JD00 **** 1/2
3. Vs Hogan WM18 **** 1/4
4. Vs Austin WM19 ****
5. Vs Angle/Taker Vengeance 2002 *** 1/2-3/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

vs. Austin, Mania X7 - ******* imo. Only Rock match I have at 5* unless I'm forgetting something.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Rock Matches:

1. Vs Austin - WrestleMania 19. Adore this match. And I'd happily say its as good as it is because of The Rock. Its HIS match from their series. His promo beforehand is the best promo he's ever done too.

2. Vs HHH - Judgement Day 2000 Iron Man. Second best Iron Man ever (Lesnar/Angle #1).

3. Vs Austin - WrestleMania 17. WM 19 is Rock's match, this is Austin's.

4. Vs HHH - Backlash 2000. My all time favourite PPV, and while its overbooked to shit, its overbooked to shit in the absolute PERFECT way. Russo should have been taking notes.

5. Vs The Undertaker Vs Angle - Vengeance 2002. No longer ***** (making Rock's total number of 5 star matches 0 lol), but I still love it a lot. Just not as much .


----------



## Gaz. (Nov 3, 2012)

Bubz said:


> Started watching some WWE stuff from the decade, thought I'd write a bit about one of the matches I never properly got around to watching before...
> 
> *The Rock vs. Triple H - Iron Man Match (WWF Judgment Day 05/21/00)*
> Holy fuck, Triple H was so badass in 2000. Seriously, his entrance is one of the most awesome things…ever. Looks like a boss walking down followed by Steph, Vince and Shane. Reminds me of how much I used to mark out for him despite hating him at the same time. Also forgot just how insane Rocky’s pops were, jesus, every single time he comes out it’s ridiculously loud, gives all of his matches from this time period a great atmosphere imo. Anyway…
> ...


Great review for a great match. ***** imo, even with the slightly botched ending, but who cares, it was the Attitude Era. Very little made sense, but it was incredible TV.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Top 5 Rock matches imo...

vs Austin - Mania 17 *****
vs Austin - Mania 19 ****1/2
vs HHH - Judgement Day 00 ****1/2
vs Lesnar - Summerslam 02 ****+
vs HHH - Backlash 00 ****


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

lol of course, wm 17. How could I forget that.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

This vid made me appreciate Rock/Austin WM19 alot more, I didn't understand why people were giving the match **** 1/2+ but now I get it. I could probably give it as high as **** 1/4

that whole video series is amazing btw


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

I knew something was up when Cal of all people had a match involving ROCK and ANGLE at *****.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1. vs Austin WM17 (*****)
2. vs Benoit FL00 (****3/4) - I'm a sucker for this one!
3. vs Triple H BL00 (****1/2)
4. vs Angle vs Undertaker VEN02 (****1/2)
5. vs Austin WM19 (****1/2)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm the only person here who isn't THAT crazy about Austin vs Rock from WrestleMania 17. It's a low **** match for me. It sort of loses my interest about as much as an electric, memorable match could do. (if that makes sense) Idk, I would have prefered a shorter bout. I think that's why their WrestleMania 19 match blows it away for me. They went out there with 11 minutes less and tore it up. Plus it didn't feel like that drawn out Attitude Era brawling stuff which I don't care for. WrestleMania 19 gave off that awesome King's Road type vibe. It was mega the moment the bell rang.

I don't rate Hogan vs Rock very high, but I love it. Thought it was really entertaining bout. Cena vs Rock went too long. That's the problem. Still liked it though. Oh, and Undertaker vs Rock vs Angle from Vengeance '02 is AMAZING. If it wasn't for the 2004 Triple Threat combo, that would probably by my favorite Triple Threat match in WWE history.

Haven't seen those awesome Rock vs Triple H matches from 2000 since I bought the PPVs back in that year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WM17 is def the Rock's best match for me. IDK what #2 is but it wouldn't matter because whatever it is is so far behind that it isn't funny.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So am I the only one that adores Rock vs. Jericho from No Mercy '01? That's my #1 Rock match for sure and pretty high up there for Jericho too, a pretty high end **** 1/2 in my eyes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Judgment Day 2005:*

MNM vs Hardcore Holly/Charlie Haas - **1/2
- The latter has to be one of the most random tag teams ever. This is just your typical, generic obligatory tag team title defense on PPV but it's not bad neither good, just okay.

Carlito vs Big Show - **
- Way too short and the only highlight is Matt Morgan giving Big Show the F5.

Paul London vs Chavo Guerrero - ***
- A decent match between two good cruiserweights. They get 10 minutes and make the most of it. And wow @ London. He takes some reckless bumps but still goes on, that's awesome!

Booker T vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
- Stupid feud although a bit funny with Angle bringing out his comedic best. The match itself is nothing special just decent but I simply couldn't get into the story because it's damn stupid. It started off with a chair-shot then suddenly Angle turns the attention to Booker's wife and talks about beastiality sex, lol. About time Booker also gets to win a match that matters.

Orlando Jordan vs Heidenreich - *
- Total shit and Heidenreich's "are you my friend?" shtick is even worse than Eugene and also a rehash to an extent. They should have gotten rid of him at this point already since he brings nothing to the table.

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - ****
- Much better than their Wrestlemania 21 match but that's also because of a better story. Eddie is now the sadistic heel who's only concern is beating the hell out of Rey while Rey is the underdog that refuses to lose. They go for almost 20 minutes and it's a great match while it lasts from the storytelling to the wrestling itself. I found Chavo's interference unnecessary but the DQ finish was in-line with Eddie's will to just physically destroy Rey. One thing I found funny was when Eddie threw Rey in the ring early in the match then out again to break the count, Tazz & Cole even pointed it out. Now I'm just waiting for their 23/6 match which should be a classic.

John Cena vs JBL - ****1/2
- Now this is more like it! After that underwhelming Wrestlemania match, here we are in an "I Quit" match between these two and simply put, it's a bloody battle. They explore all the options they are given from going to the top of that huge truck to using the limo door, to going through glass and announcer tables. Both men also bleed buckets. One of the best Cena matches ever and the one that "made" him into a permanent main eventer and a force to be reckoned with.

*Overall:* **3/4 out of ***** (Save for the two 5 minute matches with the lowest ratings, this PPV just gets better as it goes on with two amazing main event matches and some enjoyable stuff on the undercard. I'd say it's worth it just for the last two matches, though. Also why the hell is The Undertaker inactive at this point? He's just disappeared since WM21 and I assume he returns when Orton moves over to Smackdown. Otherwise, I have to say it's a pleasant surprise that the SD exclusive PPVs are doing so much better in 05 compared to 04 where they were terrible almost start to finish.)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So am I the only one that adores Rock vs. Jericho from No Mercy '01? That's my #1 Rock match for sure and pretty high up there for Jericho too, a pretty high end **** 1/2 in my eyes.


Nah it's awesome. One of the Rock's best performances and matches ever. One of Jericho's best matches as well.

SURVIVOR SERIES:
-The Mysterios v Those Other Guys: Um...this happened. Wasn't good. I remember....something. Not worth a shit w/e.
-Diva's Title: This was great. Gave me time to get some fruit for lunch. The match was also ****1/2 and a MOTYC.
-US Title: Fine match with a really nasty uppercut thing from Cesaro. That should definitely be his finisher.
-Vickie/AJ segment: This was as bad as anything I've seen in a long time. Is Gewirtz back?
-Show/Sheamus: I seemed to be one of the only people that thought their match at HIAC would be MOTN before it happened. Didn't change my tune for this show. Definite MOTN; these two have a really good quasi-formula worked out. Some of the fat could be trimmed since Show's controlling goes a little long and gets a little tedious, but the heavyweight slugging and big moves stuff is great. Finish was bullshit. They're out of ideas.
-Team Foley v Team Zigg: This was OK. Bryan's been shafted since the anger management stuff. It's like he doesn't stick out from the pack any more. The Miz looked stupid. Final moments were weird. TURN ZIGGLER. I loved the "I hate you" segment earlier on.
-WWE Title 3-way: This fuckin' stunk. A lot of the time they were pretty much epitomizing "I roll out the ring you come in". Ryback is a god awful bald piece of useless shit. I remember weeks ago there a Goldberg v Ryback thread and people were saying crap like 'Goldberg is better at squashes but Ryback is better at actual matches'. Obviously talking out of their arses and I wonder if they've changed opinions after his two terrible performances in the main event of back to back PPVs. Pops up after big moves and nothing he does looks good. Yuck. Another weird finish, but this at least could lead to something. CM Punk leading a bunch of FCW followers would be cool.

Grumpy verdict: BAD SHOW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

***1/2 for both the tag & cruiserweight championship @ Judgment Day 2005. Awesome matches. Love that opener.

Survivor Series sounds decent from a match point of view on paper. But, that ending. Yeah, I'm in the group that's :mark: just by the sound of it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I WOULD do a first take on tonight's Survivor Series PPV , but I felt the show was just so lackluster and uninspired that I don't feel like it. FUCK IT. Show-Sheamus was fucking great but not as good as the HIAC encounter as all , while Ryback needs to be out of main event matches like NOW. He's fucking garbage and if I have to see him main event any more PPV's you might just see me pull an Austin101 on here. I'm gonna go ahead and say that he's on BARRETT-MIZ BAD main event level matches.

Why stick Punk with him ? We're CLEARLY on cruise control with Punk until the Rumble, so why not give us a damn good match here or something with Punk-Cena again , or FUCK even a Punk-Orton match or some shit... Don't you think THAT would be good ? Ryback is TRASH. 

Another thing that REALLY pissed me off ; WHY... WHY in the name of fuck is Daniel Bryan being treated like a second banana to DEL RIO of all people ? Bryan is easily one of the most over performers in the company right now and you've honestly just had him tap out with ease to the individual who has been more force fed to the audience than any other performer in HISTORY. Seriously, Del Rio sucks too. 

The GOOD news : We're more than likely getting a Sheamus-Show chairs match at TLC that should be fucking awesome, and we're more than likely getting an Orton heel turn soon, probably leading to a Sheamus-Orton match at Wrestlemania. TLC better feature Cena-Punk or Punk-??? WITHOUT Ryback. FUCK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm annoyed by the Danielson loss to Del Rio too, but I don't look into the elimination tags for much except for the result. Dolph won. That's the only thing that's gonna matter for tomorrow and onward.

The face/heel dynamics of Miz & Orton matter too. I'll give those their due. The Orton one was a total swerve, but YES at the signs being there. A week and a half ago he was high-fiving Mysterio & Sin Cara. Now he's surly. It's random, but I'll take it. It's needed. Much like Miz going face is to revitalize his career.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm thinking Ziggler-Orton-Sheamus at Mania. That's when Zig'z cashes in. Orton's potentially a darkhorse candidate to win the Rumble for a second time, although I still think Cena takes it for his inevitable second (and shitty) match with Dwayne.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're thinking Rocky is gonna win the WWE Championship come Rumble? Oh, how I'm hoping that doesn't go down.

I got no idea for the World Championship. Look at last year around this time. Henry was champ and feuding with Big Show. Then WrestleMania ended up being Sheamus vs Danielson of all matches. Not even gonna attempt to predict.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Punk drops the belt I want it to be at Mania and NOT at the Rumble , preferably to The Undertaker (who drops it back at Extreme Rules) with Rock Cena II and HHH Lesnar II . That's ideal. However, Rock is a celebrity and if there's one unwritten rule in WWE it's this ; celebrities do NOT lose. 

You know, on a side note I have a theory on why Punk has had such a long title reign, and it's because of Night of Champions 2011. Trips saw how over Punk was at the time and decided that before they give him the company reigns , Trips suggested that he personally oversee that Punk "does what's best for business" :hhh 

AND THUS THE YEAR LONG REIGN BEGUN ! unk2


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm going to predict that Rock will not walk out of the Royal Rumble as WWE Champion. I just can't see it happening with his busy schedule. A special attraction match or maybe challenging for the title again at Mania seems like it would work out better imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, but Rocky isn't like Seth Green or some celebrity nonsense of that sort. He's The Rock. Wrestler first. Celebrity came second. Losing via whatever reason can still go down. It can be Jericho Rumble '02 style, aka super dirty, for all I care. Punk should beat him if that's the match to go down. Which we're all figuring it will be since there is NO WAY Cena vs Rock II is gonna be for the WWE Championship and at Royal Rumble.

Undertaker vs CM Punk for the WWE Championship is pretty ideal for me. Undertaker wins, FINALLY gets the WWE Championship back and can drop it soon after. I'll be 100% supportive of that. I'm partial, but that's my point. Plus Punk had beaten everyone else and Taker seems like the only logical choice left.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker could work from a story telling perspective too. For instance, Punk has been seeking respect from various legends and has attacked them (verbally and/or physically) over the last few months such as Rock, Bret, Lawler, Vince, Foley, etc. That might not sight well with the most respected man in the company - The Undertaker. If Punk holds the title to Mania it would be an over 500 day WWE Title reign challenging The Streak. That's huge.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LET IT GO OVER 500 DAYS :mark:

Yeah, I'm sold. If this doesn't go down, I'm gonna be sour on the whole of WrestleMania. I won't sweeten up either. (maybe)


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Punk/Taker would be a dream match. Give these 2 25-30 minutes at WM and it will be a classic. God Punk the over 500 day title reign, wanting respect from the legend of all legends. The most legendary thing in the business....THE STREAK. Punk's ultimate goal, to cement his legacy. With taker wanting the WWE Title and to shut punk up, and Taker wanting to win the WWE title at WM. This is the perfect idea for WM.

The perfect main event.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I think it would be dumb if we wasted Punks entire title run on Undertaker. I would rather Punk drops the title to some new guy that can get put over by ending Punks long title reign. We need new stars, not old legends that can only work one or two matches a year.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Sparta101 said:


> I think it would be dumb if we wasted Punks entire title run on Undertaker. I would rather Punk drops the title to some new guy that can get put over by ending Punks long title reign. We need new stars, not old legends that can only work one or two matches a year.


You know earlier this fall when they were teasing a Punk/Sheamus PPV match, I got vibes that they might move Sheamus over to the WWE Title (he would have to not win the World Title of course) and be the one to eventually end Punk's reign. He's certainly one of those newer stars you described and I can't see anyone else other than Ryback realistically for Mania with what you are asking for.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Taker not putting over Punk at Mania tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh, don't think I'd like to see that. Streak is better off remaining unblemished, imo. The tension of having Punk possibly topple it is enough.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I hope to god Punk doesn't drop the title to Sheamus. That would mean Sheamus becomes the top champion on the A-brand, and I don't know that I can sit through an Irish Cena for another few years as the top guy of the company. I really don't. I'd much prefer Ryback, even if he's not up to snuff in the ring. A Goldberg clone as the top guy would be a lot fresher than a Cena clone imo.

A 500 day title reign vs. 20 year streak would be a great way to sell the match, but I still feel they'd need to play up in some way that Taker is weakening to give Punk even the smallest semblance of chance and realism to beat Taker after what Taker has gone through the last few years. 

The only problem I have with it is the same problem I'd have with Rock or Lesnar holding the title past Mania... what's the point? Taker leaves after Mania and the title is vacated? No thank you. Or he just sticks around one extra month and then drops it like that? Unless Taker sticks around until Summerslam and drops it there to Ryback or someone, I don't see the point in just giving him a transitional reign, or having Taker be the one to end Punk's reign. Ryback ending Punk's reign at Mania would be better if it's just gonna be a transitional reign. Hell, I'd also rather Rock just win the title at RR and drop the title to Cena/Punk/Ryback at Mania (which is what's gonna happen anyway). I think a Taker/Punk match would be excellent, but if it's for the title, I think I'd honestly lean more on the side of Punk ending the streak as opposed to Taker winning the title, unless as I said, Taker sticks around for a few months before dropping it.

But who knows. Punk did end Cena's SVS streak. Perhaps he's the streak killer after all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus a Cena clone. Now I've heard it all. That is a refreshing change from the "he's Triple H's guy" stuff though. Although Cena clone isn't even close to an insult. That means he's greatly over, gets a reaction every time, and delivers strong matches on a consistent basis. Maybe it does fit.

Sheamus OWNS. I'd be all for him in the WWE Championship picture again. He seems to be locked into the World Championship scene for a good bit though. Punk doesn't have any signs of slowing down pardon the up in the air Rumble match. So if Sheamus will continue to be on top, he'll do it with the World Championship of course.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I would do these things. Some might like it, and others might not.

Ryback
Have him beat Cena clean in a match, in a kind of passing the torch moment. Cena is getting older, and can not be the top face forever. Then I would have Ryback and Lesnar have a match where Lesnar puts Ryback over clean as well. Lesnar doesnt give a fuck about the WWE that much. He will probably be gone soon, so lets use him to put guys over. Have him go over Mark Henry clean with the Shell Shocked. Build up Ryback like a monster, and then put the title on him at Summerslam or Survivor Series.

I would have CM Punk go over The Rock at Royal Rumble, and stay champion all the way until Wrestlemania. I would have The Miz win the Rumble, and beat Punk for the WWE title at Wrestlemania. I would have Sheamus turn heel, and end Undertakers undefeated streak at Wrestlemania. Have Lesnar put over some guys that need the rub before his contract is over. I would make fucking sure that Barrett becomes World Heavyweight champion on Smackdown. Have Orton turn heel like he was in 2009.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hailsabin said:


> Sheamus a Cena clone. Now I've heard it all. That is a refreshing change from the "he's Triple H's guy" stuff though. Although Cena clone isn't even close to an insult. That means he's greatly over, gets a reaction every time, and delivers strong matches on a consistent basis. Maybe it does fit.


He doesn't really tick the first two boxes (I don't consider him greatly over based on reactions and while he's one of the few to get reactions most of the time, he doesn't get them all the time), but I'll give him the third one. He's been a workhorse for a while now and I can't complain about some of the good-great matches he's had this year. However I'm not a fan of the kid-loving, always happy-going smiling top face traits that both Cena and Sheamus seem to share and rarely seem to not be happy/smiling unless a feud gets really personal (which I suppose the Show feud has). I just can't deal with that as the top face of Raw again after having Cena for years. Though Cena at least has shown he can deliver on the mic, but I have yet to be impressed with Sheamus. I'm hoping you're right that Sheamus stays on SD and in the WHC picture and doesn't come near the WWE Title picture while Punk has it. 

As for the idea of Miz beating Punk for the title, I'd be okay with that maybe... not entirely sure where they're going with Miz just yet though. I'd have to think about that and see how his face run unfurls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus is plenty over. This isn't someone trying to defend a mild Kofi Kingston pop as being over here. It's Sheamus. I mean...they're there. 

So what, Sheamus & Cena smile when they enter. They're faces. It's fine. Don't see a problem with a heated personal feud being the catalyst for them to get really serious. They don't have to be dead serious 100% of the time. They're not Benoit focused or Austin anti-hero, but that wouldn't classify them as bad by any means. Especially if Sheamus is the lead in to follow John-boy. It's acceptable. And fitting. Sheamus is reliable & proven his worth.

Don't agree w/any part of Sparta's ideas. Sheamus ending the streak? Ryback beating BROCK clean and BROCK jobbing left and right? No way.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Sheamus is plenty over. This isn't someone trying to defend a mild Kofi Kingston pop as being over here. It's Sheamus. I mean...they're there.
> 
> So what, Sheamus & Cena smile when they enter. They're faces. It's fine. Don't see a problem with a heated personal feud being the catalyst for them to get really serious. They don't have to be dead serious 100% of the time. They're not Benoit focused or Austin anti-hero, but that wouldn't classify them as bad by any means. Especially if Sheamus is the lead in to follow John-boy. It's acceptable. And fitting. Sheamus is reliable & proven his worth.
> 
> D*on't agree w/any part of Sparta's ideas. Sheamus ending the streak? Ryback beating BROCK clean and BROCK jobbing left and right? No way*.


Doesnt have to be Sheamus, could be anybody that will be with the WWE for years to come. Undertaker has had a great run at the top. His streak is not the only thing he will be remembered for. WWE should really think about ending his streak, and not giving it to someone that doesnt need it. 

About Brock. I think they already wasted him. I mean, yea Lesnar/HHH and Lesnar/Cena were dream matches, but they have not acomplished anything in my opinion. Lesnar is leaving soon, isnt he? I think his contract is up after Wrestlemania. I would seriously use him to build up new stars before he leaves. Or we can continue with the way things are now. Give us Lesnar/HHH 2 at Wrestlemania and have HHH get his win back because he really needs it. Then both men can leave and nothing will be accomplished.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hailsabin said:


> Sheamus is plenty over. This isn't someone trying to defend a mild Kofi Kingston pop as being over here. It's Sheamus. I mean...they're there.
> 
> So what, Sheamus & Cena smile when they enter. They're faces. It's fine. Don't see a problem with a heated personal feud being the catalyst for them to get really serious. They don't have to be dead serious 100% of the time. They're not Benoit focused or Austin anti-hero, but that wouldn't classify them as bad by any means. Especially if Sheamus is the lead in to follow John-boy. It's acceptable. And fitting. Sheamus is reliable & proven his worth.
> 
> Don't agree w/any part of Sparta's ideas. Sheamus ending the streak? Ryback beating BROCK clean and BROCK jobbing left and right? No way.


He's not really as over as he should be (no one in WWE is really "over" besides Cena and maybe Ryback nowadays... even Punk as a heel is lacking to a degree). He gets mild pops, like what he got at the PPV but nothing to talk about as far as being "very over".

I suppose we have to level it down to difference of opinion. I think that's the problem that they're not "Austin anti-hero" focused with Sheamus and they're instead going the Cena route with him (and I'm not asking for dead serious 100% of the time, but a good balance between seriousness and comedy, leaning more on the serious side), and I could only tolerate Cena so much, but now to have Sheamus there doesn't make things better, though at least he's not shoved down our throats on Raw in the spot he's in now. I would say Punk was a nice filler between Cena and Sheamus, but Punk as a face wasn't really much different than Cena either. I suppose Sheamus is reliable in the ring and hey, he hasn't been injured yet as far as I remember so he's certainly someone they can put some faith into. I've never been sold on him though and I'm still not.

I think that's what is making me like Ryback more than I should. Just the freshness in him and unlike big guys WWE have tried to build up like Ezekeil Jackson, Ryback has a charismatic intensity about him that makes it work a lot better and makes people care. I think Ryback beating Lesnar at Mania would be a great way to put him over huge, however I don't agree with Lesnar jobbing left and right. Build Lesnar up, keep Ryback looking unstoppable, and have them clash at Mania in a big-time feel monster match where Ryback wins. 

The only worry right now with Ryback is would he be able to have great matches? From what I saw in his interactions with Cena, I think the potential is there, but he still needs work. I thought the HIAC with how Punk sold for Ryback was good and a great way to make Ryback look like the beast that he is. But yeah, we'll see where they go with him. I'm sure he's going to be feuding with Rollins/Ambrose/Reigns, but do they use them to keep Ryback going or do they use Ryback to put them over?

The WM card is pretty unpredictable right now. Obviously the top matches are going to feature Rock/Lesnar/Taker/Punk/Cena in some fashion, with the possibility of HHH and Ryback being thrown in there. Not to mention the many possibilities for the WHC. Sheamus/Orton. Ryback/Show. Ziggler/Sheamus/Show. And many others.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sparta101 said:


> Doesnt have to be Sheamus, could be anybody that will be with the WWE for years to come. Undertaker has had a great run at the top. His streak is not the only thing he will be remembered for. WWE should really think about ending his streak, and not giving it to someone that doesnt need it.
> 
> About Brock. I think they already wasted him. I mean, yea Lesnar/HHH and Lesnar/Cena were dream matches, but they have not acomplished anything in my opinion. Lesnar is leaving soon, isnt he? I think his contract is up after Wrestlemania. I would seriously use him to build up new stars before he leaves. Or we can continue with the way things are now. Give us Lesnar/HHH 2 at Wrestlemania and have HHH get his win back because he really needs it. Then both men can leave and nothing will be accomplished.


The only people that can even be listed to defeat Undertaker at WrestleMania is John Cena & CM Punk. It doesn't need to end nor should it. The legacy is far greater than anything they could have come up with. If Shawn Michaels & Triple H couldn't try it on a collective 5 times, then it stays. Nobody needs to end the streak to get over. That can be accomplished many other ways.

Don't see how he's wasted when he was only meant to work about 3 matches with this return. He's there ONLY for the dream matches. Brock didn't sign the contract saying "ok, how many guys am I going to create into stars?" He's not Ric Flair. He's not Terry Funk. He's not there to feed into emerging wrestlers like a Sheamus or a Ryback. He's Brock Lesnar. He's an attraction. He's there to draw. He's there to give us the big money matches and that's all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lesnar or Cena losing to Ryback would be horrifying. He's probably the worst high-profile worker in the company. I'd rather they give a WWE championship run to Layla.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> The only people that can even be listed to defeat Undertaker at WrestleMania is John Cena & CM Punk. It doesn't need to end nor should it. The legacy is far greater than anything they could have come up with. If Shawn Michaels & Triple H couldn't try it on a collective 5 times, then it stays. Nobody needs to end the streak to get over. That can be accomplished many other ways.
> 
> Don't see how he's wasted when he was only meant to work about 3 matches with this return. He's there ONLY for the dream matches. Brock didn't sign the contract saying "ok, how many guys am I going to create into stars?" He's not Ric Flair. He's not Terry Funk. He's not there to feed into emerging wrestlers like a Sheamus or a Ryback. He's Brock Lesnar. He's an attraction. He's there to draw. He's there to give us the big money matches and that's all.


But why? Why is Undertaker's streak such a big deal that nobody should ever break? Yes, there are other ways to put someone over, but why cant the streak be used as one of them. That is like the biggest way to put anybody over. Hell, I would not even mind if Punk was to end the streak. A year long title reign, and ended Undertaker's undefeated streak. Great way to make a huge huge star in my opinion.

And, on the Lesnar issue, I can see your point here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sparta101 said:


> But why? Why is Undertaker's streak such a big deal that nobody should ever break? Yes, there are other ways to put someone over, but why cant the streak be used as one of them. That is like the biggest way to put anybody over. Hell, I would not even mind if Punk was to end the streak. A year long title reign, and ended Undertaker's undefeated streak. Great way to make a huge huge star in my opinion.
> 
> And, on the Lesnar issue, I can see your point here.


It's virtually setting up someone to fail. You have this MASSIVE, huge, mega deal in the streak. Then out of nowhere a non-icon type wrestle dethrones Taker. Changes the history of the WWE forever. Literally. Rides this wave of momentum. Only, what if the prospected worker doesn't turn out as well as things would have hoped. For whatever reason Taker's ultimate passing of the torch was snuffed out. Then you have the streak terminated, a worker who's benefited nothing from it, and a loss of history that makes it feel as if it was all for not.

Lets be real. If the honest to goodness legends of the company couldn't take him down, then why in the heck should a new guy? It really doesn't fit. You have to grasp the magnitude of what this win would mean. Then look at it like "is it really worth it?" 99.9% it isn't. That small, small fraction of a percent for success is fleeting too. b/c if Cena or CM Punk got it, well so what. They're set in their careers as it is. Unless CM Punk becomes the biggest name in the history of pro wrestling due to this, it isn't needed. I'm talking EVER. This puts him on a level like "nobody can touch him" type style.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Im torn on Taker losing the streak. Part of me thinks its been built up for 20 years surely it would be a waste if it didnt have a pay off. The problem is i just dont know who you can have beat him at this point. The only idea I have is Cena doing it turning heel in the process by winning by destroying Taker with a steel chair.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Why do some people assume beating Taker at Mania will make you a megastar? It's a big deal, no doubt. But it's a big deal to wrestling fans and wrestling fans only. It won't draw in new watchers and/or make the wrestler who ended the streak a Hogan/Austin/Rock-level guy. Even fans of the wrestler won't say "all right, he ended Taker's streak; HE IS AWESOME. I will tune in to every single thing he does and buy all of his merchandise." Ending the streak will just disappoint a lot of fans.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/Punk is a massive no for me. Just don't want to see it. I'm stuck on Lesnar or Cena for Taker and I don't care what anybody says lol. It's them or bust imo. Also, the streak should never end but that's just me. If there ever something in wrestling that would legitimately leave me truly speechless it would be witnessing the streak coming to an end. Honest to God I wouldn't know how to deal with that. Shocked would be an understatement lol.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Taker doesn't want to nor should retire with the streak intact.

That's not how the business works.

Anyway, i'd mark if Cena ended the streak as a babyface. The shitstorm would incredible.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

In this instance I'd happily accept the legend going out on top. The streak is just special and I'd hate to see WWE fuck it up in some vain attempt to make a star. There is no right guy to hand that accolade to imo. Taker retires with the streak intact. If they want him to go out on a loss and put somebody over then they can do it at Survivor Series and let him go out the way he came in. Lesnar this year, Cena next year and then he rides off into the sunset. The perfect way to go out.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

It's really HHH/Brock II and Punk/Taker for this year. I think that'll be Brock and Punk matches for this year.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

:hhh Gotta get my win back...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If what happened last night plays out logically and we get some rebel stable on our hands in Punk/Heyman/Rollins/Ambrose/Reigns coming in to wreck shit up and take over the company etc then they have an obvious feud staring them in the face with Punk/Hunter. They could include Brock in that stable too and declare war on the WWE's past or something because it's time for the future with Brock vying to end the Undertaker and be the ONE to send him packing and Punk vying to finish the job Brock started at Summerslam and end Triple H's career once and for all. Makes sense imo. Punk/Taker would be horrible and I stand by that. I couldn't even pretend to let myself believe Punk could end the streak lol. Just no.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Could anyone really take chickenshit heel CM Punk as a viable challenger to the streak?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Fuck the notion that Undertaker should lose at WrestleMania to leave. I already went into detail about it, but yeah, it's not a logical plan at all. Better to leave the streak in tact. You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't mess with the streak. Those are the laws of life.


----------



## WeaverOfNightmares (Oct 28, 2012)

*The Attitude Era DVD/Blu-Ray Content Listing*

Haven't seen this around anywhere and I'm really not sure if this is the right place to be posting this, but the full content listing was recently released for the Attitude Era DVD/Blu-Ray that comes out tomorrow.

---------------------------------------------------

*Disc 1*
Documentary:

The Birth of Attitude
Entrance Music
D-Generation X
Austin vs. McMahon
Long-Arching Stories
Innovations
New Demographic
Critics
Expansion
Comedy
Wealth of Talent
The World Was Watching
Watershed Period

Jim Ross interviews Goldust & Marlena
Raw – Nov 3, 1997

Steve Austin Throws the InterContinental Championship Off A Bridge
Raw – Dec 15, 1997

Soldier of Love
Raw – May 4, 1998

Mr McMahon Presents Mankind with the WWE Hardcore Championship
Raw – Nov 2, 1998

Jim Ross Interviews Triple H
Sunday Night Heat – July 25, 1999

An Evening At The Friendly Tap
SmackDown! – Jan 20, 2000

Mae Young and the Acolyte Protection Agency
SmackDown! – Jan 27, 2000

“The Jug Band”
Judgment Day 2000

Triple H Trains Trish Stratus
SmackDown! – July 27, 2000

Edges Totally Awesome Birthday
Raw – Oct 30, 2000

The Rocks Message to His Hell in a Cell Opponents
Raw – Dec 4, 2000

GTV

*Disc 2*
Mike Tyson Joins DX
Raw – Mar 2, 1998

A New Beginning For D-Generation X
Raw – March 30, 1998

Sable vs. “Marvelous” Marc Mero
Raw – May 11, 1998

Nation of Degeneration
Raw – July 6, 1998

Brawl for All Match
Bart Gunn vs. “Dr Death” Steve Williams
Raw – July 27, 1998

Four Corners Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
The Undertaker & Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kane & Mankind vs. The New Age Outlaws vs. The Rock & Owen Hart
Raw – Aug 10, 1998

Lions Den Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Owen Hart
SummerSlam 1998

Finals of WWE Championship Tournament
The Rock vs. Mankind
Survivor Series 1998

The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Stone Cold Steve Austin
Raw – Dec 7, 1998

Austin Gives The Corporation A Beer Bath
Raw – March 22, 1999

The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
Raw – June 28, 1999

The Debut of Y2J
Raw – Aug 9, 1999

*Disc 3*
European & Intercontinental Championship Match
DLo Brown vs. Jeff Jarrett
SummerSlam 1999

Buried Alive Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
The Rock & Mankind vs. The Undertaker & Big Show
SmackDown! – Sept 9, 1999

Stone Cold & Jim Ross vs. Triple H & Chyna
Raw – Oct 11, 1999

Boss Mans Sympathy for Big Shows Dad
Raw – Nov 18, 1999

The Wedding of Stephanie McMahon & Andrew “Test” Martin
Raw – Nov 29, 1999

The Godfather & DLo Brown vs. Too Cool
SmackDown – Jan 27, 2000

WWE Hardcore Championship Match
Hardcore Holly vs. Crash Holly
Raw – March 27, 2000

WWE Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero
Raw – April 3, 2000

Steel Cage Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship
Rikishi vs. Val Venis
Fully Loaded 2000

Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match for the World Tag Team Championship
Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz
SummerSlam 2000

Hell in A Cell Match for the WWE Championship
Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Undertaker vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi
Armageddon 2000

*Special Features(Expected Best Buy Exclusive)*
GTV – Al Snow & Head

Mae Young Gives Birth
Raw – Feb 28, 2000

WWE Womens Championship Match
Lita vs. Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley
Raw – June 12, 2000

The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz
Raw – July 17, 2000

*Blu-Ray Exclusives*
King of Kings Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Triple H vs. Owen Hart
Raw – June 29, 1998

The Oddities w/ Insane Clown Posse vs. The Headbangers
Raw – Sept 28, 1998

The Truth About Sammy
Raw – Jan 18, 1999

The Unholy Union of Stephanie McMahon & The Undertaker
Raw – April 26, 1999

The Rock vs. Val Venis
SmackDown – Oct 7, 1999

Survivor Series Elimination Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Kane & Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, X-Pac & The New Age Outlaws
SmackDown – Nov 4, 1999

WWE Hardcore Championship Match
Al Snow vs. Crash Holly
SmackDown – June 29, 2000

The Hardy Boyz & Lita vs. Perry Saturn, Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko
SmackDown – Nov 30, 2000

Chris Jericho & The Dudley Boyz vs. Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian
Raw – Dec 25, 2000

---------------------------------------------------

I think it could have been a better selection of matches/segments, but I'm still stoked none the less!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker should NEVER lose at Wrestlemania, let alone to somebody that shouldn't even stand in the same ring as him like Punk. And if Punk would actually end the streak, I would sacrifice myself and personally book a flight to Chicago just to assassinate him. Okay, maybe not but seriously, Punk ending the streak will be the biggest tragedy in wrestling history.

Last night I only watched two of the SVS matches and the second one was the perfect example of why I'm better off not watching this terrible product. After teasing an Orton heel turn, the match ends in a shitty clean finish. I'm never again watching a full Raw or Smackdown anymore. Even when The Rock returns and during the Road to Wrestlemania, I'll just check out the parts I'm interested in.

_Survivor Series 2012:_
Sheamus vs Big Show - ***1/4 (Not as good as the first match but still good, the DQ swerve was unneeded and illogical, though.)
Team Foley vs Team Ziggler - ** (A let down because I expected SOMETHING and not a shitty clean finish. The match was nothing special while it lasted either. I didn't mind Ziggler being the sole survivor but Orton should have RKOed The Miz - who would be the last guy along with Orton and Ziggler - then proceeded to walk out, leading to a heel turn.)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk's the only guy on the roster I'd be ok with ending the streak. Don't think the streak should end at all, but if it does, Punk's the best guy to do it atm.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol, I'd rather Santino ends the streak than Punk.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, I'd rather Santino ends the streak than Punk.


 You really hate Punk, don't you? :lol


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

unk2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, I'd rather Santino ends the streak than Punk.


Yeah, we get it.

I personally don't want to see anyone break Taker's streak. I do want to see Taker/Cena happen either this year or next though.

Enjoyed Survivor Series but mainly just because the people I like did well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

New distributor for WWE DVD's in Europe has been announced http://www.fremantlemedia.com/news/..._Enterprises_Gets_Into_the_Ring_with_WWE.aspx

They got some big arse shoes to fill after SilverVision.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Is that company any good usually?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Taker should skip WM 29, and put his shit together until WM 30. Until then, they can easily (over)hype Dean Ambrose as a crafty, psychotic maniac who's capable of doing ANYTHING for his agendas. So yeah, Taker/Ambrose for WM 30. CM Punk can fuck off.


----------



## holt_hogan (Jun 28, 2011)

*In case anyone hasn't seen the release regarding who's replacing Silver Vision in the UK and Europe:
*
World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. : FremantleMedia Enterprises Gets into the Ring With WWE®

Major Distribution Agreement Announced

FremantleMedia Enterprises (FME) today announced a major new distribution agreement with WWE (NYSE:WWE) for the exclusive home entertainment rights to WWE's catalogue of programming across Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA).

The deal goes into effect in January of 2013 and will see FME manage the DVD, Blu-ray and digital rights for all new and existing WWE content, making it the first time that fans of WWE's popular programming can access it digitally across EMEA. Some of the new titles that will be released include Night of Champions 2012, Hell in a Cell 2012, Top 100 Raw Moments, Attitude Era and WrestleMania 29.

WWE is a recognized leader in global entertainment. The company consists of a portfolio of businesses that create and deliver original content 52 weeks a year to a global audience. WWE is committed to family-friendly entertainment on its television programming, pay-per-view, digital media and publishing platforms. WWE programming is broadcast in more than 145 countries and 30 languages and reaches more than 600 million homes worldwide.

Pete Kalhan, SVP Home Entertainment & Archive EMEA, FME, commented, "WWE is an incredibly strong and ever-growing brand with a huge and extremely dedicated global fan base. The brand has a rich history and has performed exceptionally well on DVD for many years. We look forward to working with WWE to grow all aspects of their home entertainment catalogue and are particularly excited about introducing the content to the masses across EMEA via digital platforms."

"WWE is pleased to partner with FremantleMedia Enterprises on the digital and retail distribution of our content in EMEA," said Casey Collins, Executive Vice President, Consumer Products for WWE. "FME's broad retail reach will allow us to place more WWE content across all channels where our fans shop."


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not gonna judge Ambrose since I know fuck all about him but WM30 should be Cena vs Taker.

To go back to older stuff instead of the painful present, has anyone checked out the ECW Rules match between Benoit and Tajiri from Raw 23/5/2005? It's pretty short but highly enjoyable. Also Benoit puts Tajiri in a Crossface with the kendo stick but unlike WWE today, they actually book the move strongly here. Can't find the match on either YT or DM, though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Can I see some FUCKING SNOWFLAKES for Survivor Series? Have yet to watch and am curious how much I can skip over.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Skip everything but Show/Sheamus.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Much appreciated.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Brodus Clay, Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd, Sin Cara and Rey Mystero vs. Prime Time Players, Primo, Epico and Tensai - ***

Eve (c) vs. Kaitlyn - **

R-Truth vs. Antonio Cesaro (c) - **1/2

Big Show (c) vs. Sheamus - ***1/2

Team Foley vs. Team Ziggler - ***

CM Punk (c) vs. Ryback vs. John Cena - ***

Pretty negative going into the PPV, but the opener was pretty stellar. Even the Divas match wasn't terrible. Every match ranged from slightly mediocre to very good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So a pretty average PPV highlighted by the debut of three people nobody (outside of this forum) has ever heard of? Nice.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I only watched Sheamus/Show and the Foley/Ziggler elimination match. The former was pretty good (***1/4) and the latter was a huge let down since I expected more and the match itself was just pretty boring. (**)

Didn't watch anything else and have no plans of doing so any time soon. That's all I can help with.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> So a pretty average PPV highlighted by the debut of three people nobody (outside of this forum) has ever heard of? Nice.


Well, it was alot better than I expected it to be. First match went about 20-25 minutes I think and featured some great work from Tyson Kidd. Sheamus continued to impress in his match with Big Show, delivering the electric chair to him as well as White Noise with relative ease. The Team Foley/Team Ziggler match went slower than expected, but with a fun finish. The main event was what I was expecting, until that killer ending. Yowza!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really enjoyed the opener but it might just be the Kidd/Gabriel fan in me. And by might I mean probably.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Survivor Series on a first watch for me was probably the worst PPV I've seen live in a pretty long time. Nothing classic, one match that I'd consider to be "great quality" , while we were fed a very unsatisfying main event. If this is where we're headed after all of the amazing main event type matches we've had earlier in the year, I'm going to be SUPER-pissed.

Worst PPV since Bragging Rights 2010 for me actually (I do believe). I'm praying I can say more about it after a re-watch but I'm not overly optimistic.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> New distributor for WWE DVD's in Europe has been announced http://www.fremantlemedia.com/news/..._Enterprises_Gets_Into_the_Ring_with_WWE.aspx
> 
> They got some big arse shoes to fill after SilverVision.


The fuck are these guys? Never heard of them but they had better provide the same quality of service as SilverVision. No idea why the hell they ended that partnership tbh. SV were perfect. Ah well. I'm wondering though, can you play Region 1 Blu-Ray's on a PS3 in the UK? Just in case lol.

I have Survivor Series downloaded. I watched the attack at the end but nothing else yet. I'm wondering if it's even worth my time tbh. Still haven't watched Cena/Punk NOC. Maybe I'll watch that instead lol.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> The fuck are these guys? Never heard of them but they had better provide the same quality of service as SilverVision. No idea why the hell they ended that partnership tbh. SV were perfect. Ah well. I'm wondering though, can you play Region 1 Blu-Ray's on a PS3 in the UK? Just in case lol.
> 
> I have Survivor Series downloaded. I watched the attack at the end but nothing else yet. I'm wondering if it's even worth my time tbh. Still haven't watched Cena/Punk NOC. Maybe I'll watch that instead lol.


No you can't play Region A (1) BDs on UK PS3's


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> Could anyone really take chickenshit heel CM Punk as a viable challenger to the streak?


It worked for Edge


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Platt said:


> No you can't play Region A (1) BDs on UK PS3's




Well there goes that idea.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Australian ones will work but I don't know how they work out price wise.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Rey Mysterio ; Superstar Collection*

vs Chris Jericho (Bash 09) : ***** 1/2*
vs Dolph Ziggler (Night of Champions 09) : **** 1/2*
vs Batista (Cage ; SD 10) : **** 1/2*
vs CM Punk (Over the Limit 10) : ******

For like 7 bucks, this was an extremely solid pickup. The match vs Jericho at the Bash is the second best match of 2009 (but not even CLOSE to Taker-HBK like some very insane people say) with tons of callbacks to previous matches , great pacing and all of that jazz. vs Ziggler is an awesome match in it's own right with Ziggler playing the pretty boy/cocky heel perfectly to Rey's little man offense. How every single one of Ziggler's counter's is into a "show-off" type move is great.

The Batista match is all storytelling, with Batista systematically destroying Rey and beating him senselessly until Mysterio gets an opening and takes the match. Batista challenging Rey to do the 619 on him in the cage, only for Rey to leapfrog over Batista and almost escape is an awesome moment (and anything out of the normal cage formula is great for me). The Punk match is fucking AWESOME and perhaps their best match together, with a fantastic pace (like most Rey/Punk matches) and some awesome callbacks to their previous matches.

Overall, for such a cheap price this one is definitely worth checking out as you get an all-time classic, one of the best matches of 2010, and two *** 1/2 matches as a nice side piece. Obviously at like 82 minutes in length it isn't the greatest DVD in the world but I'm a huge fan of these little bargain DVDs that this is going to get a great score from me . (I'M RATING IT AS A ONE DISC BASICALLY)

*7/10 (Recommended)*

Funny you should mention that Starbuck, watching NOC 12 right now actually, can't wait to rewatch the Cena-Punk match that fluctuates from **** 1/4 to **** 1/2 everytime I think about it, getting a definitive opinion now. God that opening 4 way is underwhelming, loving the second match though, good shit.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Alim said:


> It worked for Edge


Did it really? I don't personally remember ever believing Edge could end the streak besides a slight possibility after the second spear.

Plus that was before Taker's battles with HBK and HHH. I do still firmly believe there's a way to make Punk look like a threat, but they can't just phone the feud in. If they do, no one would believe Punk could end the streak, and rightfully so.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Team Clay vs. Team Tensai - **** MOTN
Kaitlyn vs. Eve - **
Antonio Cesaro vs. R-Truth - **
Sheamus vs. Big Show - ***
Team Foley vs. Team Ziggler - **1/2
Cm Punk vs. Ryback vs. John Cena **3/4



Spoiler: DEM SPOILERS



Very meh'ish show, with the unannounced match stealing it, by far. I loved the finishing stretch with all the faces getting their shit in. Primo and Titus surprised me a lot in this match, I thought they were both great. Shame about the Tensai/Clay botch, but whatever. Very impressed with Sin Cara as well, who has mightily improved since teaming up with Rey. Coincidence? I think not. Rey is awesome, full stop. I hope he sticks around as an agent/trainer when he retires, could realy help the younger guys. Great match, tbh.

Eve winning doesn't surprise me, and I actually liked the transition spot with the apron, real cool touch. Maybe Kaitlyn seemed a little bit weak coming out of this, simply due to the fact that she lost cleanly. The Aksana beat down should have done much more damage to Kaitlyn to somewhat protect her, but I'm not too fussed. I presume they're building up towards an Eve/AJ match at Mania. Aj will bury Tamina and Eve will continue going over Kaitlyn and Layla probably, heading in to a big clash in AJ's home town at Mania. Or I could maybe see Kaitlyn winning at the Rumble for the title, AJ defeating Tamina for the #1 contendership and then Eve envoking her rematch clause. Would make sense given the history between AJ/Kaitlyn as well. The divas division actually looks decent now, tbh. Needs more NATTIE though.

Cesaro and Truth blowed pretty hard, tbh, but that may just be because I hate k-Kwik and I hate Cesaro's finisher. Cesaro tried his best, but it wasn't anything amazing. The right guy won in an obvious filler feud. I hope they build someone up amazingly to challenge Cesaro at Wrestlemania. I was hoping for Swagger but I doubt it now. Nevermind.

Show/Sheamus was decent and it may go up slightly on a rewatch, but I was comparing it too much to their epic match at HIAC and I think that that's why it's so low. I understand the ending, it leaves a lot of room for their rubber match at TLC, probably, which with the right stipulation (NOT A LADDER MATCH) could be amazing. 

Team Ziggles vs. Foley was fun, but wasn't high star worthy. The Miz and Ziggler proved that they belong in the main event scene, and everyone else played their part decently. Would have preferred Otunga to stay out, but they could have picked a worse replacement for Rhodes I guess. Nothing amazing, but was fun.

The main event was mediocre, but I wasn't expecting anything groundbreaking heading in to the match anyway. I'm actually not that bothered about the ending at all. If it's Nexus v3. then I really can't be arsed for it and they picked two of the least suitable people for it, in Rollins and Ambrose. But whatever. The match it's self wasn't great and I wouldn't call it essential viewing, but whatever.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

500+ Day title reign vs. Undertaker's 20-0 streak sounds great, in my opinion. I applaud WWE for making the main events at Wrestlemania this year very unpredictable. But with Rock/Lesnar/Punk/Cena/Undertaker and perhaps Triple H as the stars, you can't really go wrong. They have my attention from here on out.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Team Clay vs. Team Tensai - **** MOTN
> Kaitlyn vs. Eve - **
> Antonio Cesaro vs. R-Truth - **
> Sheamus vs. Big Show - ***
> ...


Mark for your rating for the opener. Need to watch it again but I really enjoyed it as well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I still firmly believe Rock/Cena II and Brock/Taker are a lock for Mania. I'll be genuinely surprised if they aren't. But hey, the year is almost through so we won't be long finding out lol. Crazy to think I was in Miami 7 or 8 months ago. Wow. Time sure as hell flies.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

WRESTLEMANIA 29

THE REIGN VS THE STREAK 

BOOK IT!

(Personally I would love it)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Think I'm the only human being on the face of the earth who would love to see :hhh *VS* :brock *II* at Mania .....


DAT SHOVEL !


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm not outright opposed to another :brock vs. :hhh but they would need to step away from the psychology, take it up a notch and turn it into a war. But it's not exactly my first choice.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was thinking they could add a HHH's career on the line stipulation, only to have Trips swerve everybody and win, could be the first half main event of the show that gets the crowd crazy as they legitimately believe that The Game's career is over (plus, if that stipulation actually happened I'd be at the edge of my seat the entire match). Maybe even make it a LMS since Trips goes full GOD mode for that match.

Have your shitty Rock-Cena rematch be your second last match on the card with the main event being Punk-Taker. God damnit, add in Sheamus-Orton-Ziggler for the WHC and have Ryback competing in a 3 minute match with Big Show and you have one of the greatest Mania cards ever. Wish we got Danielson-FELLA again though, if anybody deserves the WHC it's Danielson over Show/Ziggler/Orton/ Dude's on FIRE.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I wouldn't like to see Lesnar vs. Triple H II, since I wasn't a fan of the first one to begin with. It was a dreadfully long and dragged out match, I have no interest in seeing it again. The only Lesnar matches I would want to see are Rock vs. Lesnar, or Undertaker vs. Lesnar. The options I see at Wrestlemania are: 

Rock vs. Cena II for the belt, highly likely.
Rock vs. Cena vs. Punk for the belt, likely.
Rock vs. Punk for the belt, not so likely.
Rock vs. Lesnar for the belt, likely.
Punk vs. Undertaker for the belt, likely.
Lesnar vs. Undertaker, likely.
Punk vs. Triple H, unlikely, wouldn't mind it.
Cena vs. Undertaker, not likely. Probably happening at 30.
Punk vs. Austin, same as above.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Officially putting Hunter's career on the line is a surefire way to make a Brock rematch a pretty huge deal and add a ton of drama as well. But like I said, I still think Brock is Taker's. All this talk of Punk facing Taker is just that, talk. He simply isn't credible enough for the streak and 4 months isn't anywhere enough time to make him credible. I don't see it as a remote possibility tbh. I'm fine for suspending my belief/disbelief when it comes to wrestling but putting Punk in there with Taker at this stage in the game would be horrible. I'd honestly just laugh and I'm not even joking. That's the only reaction I'd have. Seeing Punk standing across the ring from the fucking Undertaker at Wrestlemania? :lmao Not a chance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only three things that could REALLY piss me off about Wrestlemania XXIX are as follows ;

1. The show ends with Rock on top AGAIN. We already had him end XXVII and XXVIII. Why do we need him ending ANOTHER Mania ? That'd be downright CRUEL for WWE to do that to the current crop of guys out there, Rock isn't going to come back forever. (Rock-Lesnar is kind of an exception)

2. Rock-Cena II closes the show. It can and probably will happen, but as long as it's not the main event, I don't give a flying fuck if it happens or not to be honest. Even if it means Cena getting his win back, I don't care. Just not the last match.

3. HHH doesn't compete. I can't seem to think where HHH fits in when it comes to XXIX , as the only matches I could potentially see are HHH-Lesnar , HHH-Punk , or even HHH-Heyman in a blowoff match to that feud in particular where HHH just DESTROYS Heyman in a streetfight ala McMahon-HBK WM XXII.

Punk needs to go on last to solidify himself as WWE's new GUY. If you don't believe he is than consider this : Who's going to have the longest WWE title reign since Hulk Hogan ? Who sells the most merchandise amongst the Male demographic (by FAR) ? Who seems to be getting the "Cena 2007" treatment ? Edge, Orton, and even fucking MIZ got their Wrestlemania main event moments, it's time for Punk to get his (even if he jobs, which is 95 percent likely). I don't care who it's against, Cena, Trips, Taker, even ROCK. Punk needs to go on last more than anybody else in the WWE right now by FAR.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

The more I think about it, the more I think that there isn't going to be a Rock/Cena rematch at all.

Rock/Cena/Punk in a triple threat would be exciting as fuck and I hope that they're seriously considering it.

If Rock/Lesnar happens, it definitely won't be for the title.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dear God... I hope you're right.

VOTE 4 CENA v. TRIPS IN A BURIED ALIVE MATCH :hhh :cena

THOSE RATINGZ !


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

K1ngOfK1ngs said:


> The only three things that could REALLY piss me off about Wrestlemania XXIX are as follows ;
> 
> 1. The show ends with Rock on top AGAIN. We already had him end XXVII and XXVIII. Why do we need him ending ANOTHER Mania ? That'd be downright CRUEL for WWE to do that to the current crop of guys out there, Rock isn't going to come back forever. (Rock-Lesnar is kind of an exception)
> 
> ...


Agreed with everything said here. Rock/Cena was so disappointing and god awful the first time, I'd hate to see them try again. Unfortunately I see it happening more than anything else. Ugh. And agreed about Punk needing this year to be his moment. A card with all these huge names, and Punk closes the show, just like RAW 1000. It skyrockets his credibility just that much more. :mark:

But with his shitty ass booking, I doubt it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The more I look at it , the more I see WWE wanting to book Punk more as the Rock to Cena's Steve Austin, rather than the Randy Savage to Cena's Hulk Hogan. Just look at his DVD for further example, Punk is basically getting WHATEVER THE FUCK HE WANTS , and I'd be damned if when Punk shined that brand new 5 year contract last year that atleast 1 show-ending main-event Wrestlemania match wasn't stipulated inside. 

Fuck, he even has ABSURD amounts of unnecessary merchandise, far more than whoever the number three guy is (more than Sheamus and Orton combined actually). WWE knows exactly what they have here with Punk , and it seems as if the report from earlier in the year which portrayed Punk as having a ton of backstage leverage now were completely true. That's probably how he got Heyman back. As a FAN , I couldn't be happier unk2


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

> A card with all these huge names, and Punk closes the show, just like RAW 1000. It skyrockets his credibility just that much more


Surely helped Jericho at 18......


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If Punk is really going to retire in a few years then they'd be better off strapping a rocket to somebody else who is going to be around long enough for them to reap the benefits of it lol. Besides, Punk isn't WWE's new GUY or THE GUY or any of that stuff. Fact is, that mantle still belongs to John Cena and whoever the next GUY is, well, he's going to have to take it from Cena and have the torch passed to him by Cena. Until that happens, Cena still sits on top of the mountain.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> If Punk is really going to retire in a few years then they'd be better off strapping a rocket to somebody else who is going to be around long enough for them to reap the benefits of it lol. Besides, Punk isn't WWE's new GUY or THE GUY or any of that stuff. Fact is, that mantle still belongs to John Cena and whoever the next GUY is, well, he's going to have to take it from Cena and have the torch passed to him by Cena. Until that happens, Cena still sits on top of the mountain.


True. It's the main reason he turned heel. He seen he was never going to be the top GUY (Babyface, THE MAN) so he went the other way because he knew he'd be the top heel.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Hopefully, they give the next "guy" a legitimate chance of being that guy and actually have his title matches as the champion in the main event of PPVs. That would help.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Is there any word on a Best of Raw/SD set for this year? Those are always some of my favorites to buy.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

I've had my heart set on Lesnar/Taker since his return, but I would be happy with Punk/Taker streak vs streak. Only problem is that Rock/Cena & Lesnar/Triple H rematches that come with it and I don't want to see those whatsoever.

I just feel (HOPE, it's more hope) that WWE aren't stupid enough to go with Rock/Cena again. Title or not, it's a straight forward rematch. A rematch of something they plugged to hell as once in a lifetime just 12 months earlier. They can't avoid looking bad there. And again as the main event? (Which let's be honest, if there's no Taker/Punk it will be.) The crowd will shit all over the Cena win.

Option A: Punk/Taker, Rock/Cena, HHH/Lesnar
Option B: Lesnar/Taker, Rock/Cena, Punk/HHH (or Punk/Sheamus if no Trips)
Option C: Lesnar/Taker, Rock/Cena/Punk
Option D: Punk/Taker, Rock/Cena/Lesnar
Option E a.k.a WrestleMania 30 let's do this: Cena/Taker, Lesnar/Rock, Punk/Austin

Dunno which of A-D I'd rather have tbh.. 


Anyway, Survivor Series:
Bonus 5v5 - ***
Divas - 1/2*
Cesaro/Truth - *1/2
Sheamus/Show - ***1/4
Foley/Ziggler 5v5 - ***
Triple threat - **3/4

Struggled to care about any of it. Worst Survivor Series since at least 2008.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I'd take B if that means Punk gets his win back


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I dont think Taker would be up for a match with Lesnar

For a start, i dont think he can handle that anymore. Lesnar would end him. And second, I dont think Taker likes Brock very much. Lesnar beat him twice and just left. for an old school guy like Taker, thats not cool


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The one thing that new guys have on their side as they rise up the ranks this time around is that John Cena is 35. That's usually the time where guys start to transition out of the FACE OF DA COMPANY role and move towards being a supporting player while a new guy steps in to hold the fort. I have no doubt that Cena will still be a huge name and play a huge role in the future but he can't be the central focus forever. Just like HHH, Taker, HBK etc stepped to the side while Cena became THE GUY, Cena too will step to the side, hopefully after putting over and anointing a new GUY and that person, whoever he is, will become the new central focus. It isn't going to be any of Punk, Orton, Seamus etc though. They are Cena's generation if you will. It's going to be somebody from the NXT (see what I did there? 8*D) generation to take that spot. All imo of course lol.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

*Backlash 2009*

ECW Championship
Jack Swagger vs. Christian
***1/4 ~ Good opener, and there were some really good near falls throughout.

Chris Jericho vs. Ricky Steamboat
*** ~ I thought this would be a total squash or just Steamboat playing it really safe. Instead we got Steamboat hitting a SUPERPLEX.

CM Punk vs. Kane
**3/4 ~ Solid match, but nothing special. Punk had some good offense.

I Quit Match
Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy
**3/4 ~ The beginning with Matt working over the legs was good, but then it turned sour with Jeff dominating the last several minutes. He just hit about four finishers and then set Matt up for a big spot. Then we got the typical I Quit Match ending, where the heel quits before the face does the big spot and the face does it anyways. Eh.

Santina Marella vs. Beth Phoenix
DUD ~ Part of the comedy angle going on. Very skippable.

WWE Championship
Legacy vs. Triple H, Batista, and Shane McMahon
*1/2 ~ The first 5 minutes were pointless and the rest of the match dragged with a few good moments here and there.

World Heavyweight Championship - Last Man Standing
John Cena vs. Edge
***1/2 ~ Really good match. Some of the sequences were great, but there was some long pauses like most LMS matches. The AA into the crowd surprised me and added to the match. There wasn't that much weapons involved, and I really can't decide if that is good or bad.

Overall, a thumbs in the middle but mostly down. Nothing is really worth seeing excepting the opener and main event.​


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> The one thing that new guys have on their side as they rise up the ranks this time around is that John Cena is 35. That's usually the time where guys start to transition out of the FACE OF DA COMPANY role and move towards being a supporting player while a new guy steps in to hold the fort. I have no doubt that Cena will still be a huge name and play a huge role in the future but he can't be the central focus forever. Just like HHH, Taker, HBK etc stepped to the side while Cena became THE GUY, Cena too will step to the side, hopefully after putting over and anointing a new GUY and that person, whoever he is, will become the new central focus. It isn't going to be any of Punk, Orton, Seamus etc though. They are Cena's generation i*f you will. It's going to be somebody from the NXT (see what I did there? 8*D) generation to take that spot. All imo of course lo*l.


YEAH, LIKE DEAN AMBROSE! THE SAVIOR AND FUTURE OF PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash '09:

Christian/Swagger - ****
Steamboat/Jericho - ***1/4
Punk/Kane - **3/4
Matt/Jeff - **3/4
Legacy vs Trips/Shane/Tista - ***1/2
Edge/Cena - ****1/2

Love this show.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Redead said:


> I dont think Taker would be up for a match with Lesnar
> 
> For a start, i dont think he can handle that anymore. Lesnar would end him. And second, I dont think Taker likes Brock very much. Lesnar beat him twice and just left. for an old school guy like Taker, thats not cool


Money.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

And Lesnar will do the return job that he was supposed to do at Judgment Day 2004.

Speaking of which, has Lesnar ever taken a Tombstone Piledriver? He only faced Biker Taker and then, the Last Ride was his finisher.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash 2009. Probably the best PPV I don't own. Christian vs Swagger II :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of which, has Lesnar ever taken a Tombstone Piledriver? He only faced Biker Taker and then, the Last Ride was his finisher.


Royal Rumble 2003


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brye said:


> Is there any word on a Best of Raw/SD set for this year? Those are always some of my favorites to buy.


Jannuary 29th, brah. Same format as last year. Lookin forward to it.

Backlash '09 fucking OWNS. Love Orton's title win, mark out every time I see it. Everything else on the card is great minus that shitty I Quit match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Jannuary 29th, brah. Same format as last year. Lookin forward to it.
> 
> Backlash '09 fucking OWNS. Love Orton's title win, mark out every time I see it. Everything else on the card is great minus that shitty I Quit match.


That's great to hear. (Y)



Hailsabin said:


> Backlash 2009. Probably the best PPV I don't own. Christian vs Swagger II :mark:


Completely agree with both of you guys on Backlash. Such a great show. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Hardy vs Hardy I Quit is trash. Their matches are only solid or slightly good at best. They don't got that HART chemistry.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of which, has Lesnar ever taken a Tombstone Piledriver? He only faced Biker Taker and then, the Last Ride was his finisher.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpvyME5Ztbg yes 

EDIT: Fuck these slow arse servers! And Clique .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

What are the best Raw & SD matches this year?

I enjoyed Bryan/Sheamus Raw Street Fight, Punk/Vince RAW , and Punk/Henry RAW after Mania more than anything. Bryan/Ziggler had a solid match on Raw a couple of weeks ago too.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Clique said:


> What are the best Raw & SD matches this year?
> 
> I enjoyed Bryan/Sheamus Raw Street Fight, Punk/Vince RAW , and Punk/Henry RAW after Mania more than anything. Bryan/Ziggler had a solid match on Raw a couple of weeks ago too.


 Y2J vs Sheamus on Smackdown.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Clique, those are the few that spring to my mind as well. Didn't Jericho and Sheamus have a good match on SD?

Just saw a gif of DOLPH'S monkey flip from last night. Should bump the match up at least *3/4.

edit FUCK OFF!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Royal Rumble 2003


Ah, I don't remember that one at all. Also looks pretty bad for Undertaker standards but I guess that was just because he had not done it in a while so he rushed it and did it the safest way possible. Amazing how flawless his execution of it is every time he does the move, regardless of the other guy's size.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Show/Bryans at the beginning of the year were pretty awesome. Bryan and Punk had a few goodies.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clique said:


> What are the best Raw & SD matches this year?
> 
> I enjoyed Bryan/Sheamus Raw Street Fight, Punk/Vince RAW , and Punk/Henry RAW after Mania more than anything. Bryan/Ziggler had a solid match on Raw a couple of weeks ago too.


Would love it if Punk/Henry 4/2 and 4/16 made it. I really liked the Ziggler/Miz/Jericho 3 way too. There's been a bunch of decent stuff on SD that could pass onto it too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Sheamus/Orton from 5/18 was really good I do believe, along with the Punk/Henry match mentioned.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye said:


> Would love it if Punk/Henry 4/2 and 4/16 made it. I really liked the *Ziggler/Miz/Jericho 3 way *too. There's been a bunch of decent stuff on SD that could pass onto it too.


I don't remember this at all. Might have been one of quite a few episodes I've skipped this year. I will have to look it up.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton/Rhodes on SD. Or was that last year lol?


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Punk vs Cena vs Ryback - ***1/4

Could have been better in my opinion, but still a very fun match. Two announce table spots. Ambrose, Rollins making their debuts, and a couple of really nice near falls. I also loved how they made Cena and Punk team up to take out Ryback. Nothing ground breaking, but a pretty decent match. I was also glad that Ryback showed he could go longer then ten minutes in a match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Orton/Rhodes on SD. Or was that last year lol?


It was last year. Orton has had some good matches with D Bryan, though. I liked one that they had in February. Sheamus/Orton the week before Over the Limit was also enjoyable.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Orton/Rhodes on SD. Or was that last year lol?


Street Fight? That was last year. Awesome match though. On 'Falls Count Anywhere' on last year's RAW/SD set.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> What are the best Raw & SD matches this year?
> 
> I enjoyed Bryan/Sheamus Raw Street Fight, Punk/Vince RAW , and Punk/Henry RAW after Mania more than anything. Bryan/Ziggler had a solid match on Raw a couple of weeks ago too.


Smackdown - Most of the competitive Sheamus matches are worth a watch. Plus Punk vs Danielson from 2/21.

RAW - any of the Punk vs Danielson or Punk vs Cena matches, Cena vs Danielson 8/6, Jericho vs Dolph vs Miz 8/13, Sheamus vs Dolph 3/12, Sheamus vs Tensai 6/11.

So the year really has been in the favor of the same 6 guys.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Punk/Bryan
Punk/Henry
Orton/Sheamus
Punk/Kane
Sheamus/Bryan


There is probably some good Orton/Ziggler matches but they wrestle like every week.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Been watching/re-watching a ton of 2010 WWE stuff today. The last hour has been all Drew McIntyre. Man, he was fucking good. I remember him being so good, having all of this unique offense, being a master of the limb work and piecing a match together really well in general, but I don't remember him being such a tremendous bumper. The drop kick into ringside apron bump in one of the Christian matches was nasty, and the flat back bump on the steel steps in the 6/23 Matt Hardy match was insane and kinda disgusting. Then he takes the same bump on the announce table in a later Christian match and could have pierced his head open on a monitor. Nuts. If 2010 McIntyre was around right now he'd easily be the best wrestler in the WWE today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He even got a quality match out of Kofi Kingston from Fatal Four Way.

The series vs Christian on Smackdown was a total highlight for me. Kane might have been world champ and hell Dolph might have finally been IC champ, but if Christian vs Drew was signed, then that's where my interest was.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Titus O Neil vs Jerry Lawler RAW 11/19/12: *****, MOTD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I actually missed most of D-MAC's best days when he actually got significant TV time.

When Jeff Hardy became the WWE champion I became so upset that it caused me to stop watching consistently for two years. I'm dead fucking serious when I say that too. The only PPV's I watched live from Survivor Series 2008 to Wrestlemania XXVII were WM's XXV and XXVI. Might be one of the only people in IWC history who got so fed up with the product that they went beyond bitching about it and just stopped watching. Checked results every now and then and was legitimately shocked to hear about Miz and Sheamus's first title reigns (I never even heard of Sheamus before that, still shocked about Miz TBH). HHH-Taker got me back into this, but after Wrestlemania I stopped caring again... Until I watched Capitol Punishment and saw how well CM Punk performed in every facet of the company. 

So yeah, I stayed after that and haven't really missed a PPV since. If it wasn't for Punk I probably wouldn't be consistently watching wrestling (I never watch RAW on TV anyways, always stream) at all because of that douchebag Jeff Hardy and the stupid decisions that the E' has made over the years. Leads me to an interesting theory ; A ton of people were like me and came back for Punk, buy a SHIT ton of his merch and watch a ton, but since we're a different kind of fan we don't watch TV thus not helping ratings. Who the fuck cares about ratings anyways besides a bunch of flaming retards ? Anybody else go through a sabbatical from Wrestling like I did ?

AAANNNYYYWAYYYS YEAHHHHHH.... D-Mac. Missed a ton of his shit and really only saw sporadic stuff from EC's 10 and 11


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't really get the Jeff Hardy hate. When he was on the dude was really good. 

I had a big sabbatical from WWE. I watched it here and there, but I missed so much. I didn't watch a single full PPV between WrestleMania 25 and WrestleMania 27. I can't ever have a sabbatical from wrestling in general; I have DVDs and stream sites if I don't like what's on TV. I do remember the first Davey Richards match I watched put me off for two weeks, though. That is genuinely not a joke.



Hailsabin said:


> He even got a quality match out of Kofi Kingston from Fatal Four Way.
> 
> The series vs Christian on Smackdown was a total highlight for me. Kane might have been world champ and hell Dolph might have finally been IC champ, but if Christian vs Drew was signed, then that's where my interest was.


I gotta check Drew v Kofi; I didn't think McIntyre got a singles match on PPV then. McIntyre v Christian should have been a World Title feud by this point in 2012. Hell, it possibly could have been in 2010 but instead we got Kane v Edge in one of my least favourite feuds in the history of wrestling. Just a horrible, dreadful, painful, awful, terrible feud. 

I should get on all of the Chris Masters stuff again. If it wasn't for Mysterio he probably would have been the best in the WWE that year. I'm not exaggerating. I'll watch all of the Rey/Punk matches again too. And anything Regal and Goldust did. And some Evan Bourne, Sheamus and Ziggler. And I never saw the Lawler/Miz TLC, so that, too. Man WWE were putting out some motherfucking consistency in 2010.

PS everybody watch this Rey/Taker from SD- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vypJCPQdvwM I never actually saw their Rumble match (I'll watch THAT right now, actually), but I'll be surprised if it was this good.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker & Rey actually have pretty good chemistry. The match posted is actually the match where Rey's 619 injured Undertaker (broken nose?). Most people know about the Rumble match that year and they also had a match on a special Christmas episode of Smackdown in 09.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll watch that, too. Watched Rumble just now and it was really fun. Definitely liked 5/28/10 more, though.

Little help- what's the date on the Regal v DH Smith match everyone likes?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think it is 12/30/2010 for the Regal/Smith match. As for that Taker/Mysterio match, it's definitely their weakest together. It was their first meeting on a holiday episode so they really didn't do as much as they would later do on PPV and TV months later. Still, pretty cool seeing those two working together. I also like the Mysterio/Michaels match from the go home SD before Royal Rumble '10.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OHHHH DAT HBK-MYSTERIO MATCH :vince


How do you feel about their Eddie Guerrero Tribute match ? I remember really liking that , as well as the Trips-Benoit match from the Smackdown afterwards. I always felt like those two shows were legit GREAT shows for some reason, even though I haven't seen them in years. My favorite episode of Raw would either have to be HOMECOMING or the first round in the gold rush tournament though


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> I think it is 12/30/2010 for the Regal/Smith match. As for that Taker/Mysterio match, it's definitely their weakest together. It was their first meeting on a holiday episode so they really didn't do as much as they would later do on PPV and TV months later. Still, pretty cool seeing those two working together. I also like the Mysterio/Michaels match from the go home SD before Royal Rumble '10.


Thanks. Yeah, watched the the 09 Rey/Taker and it's not as good as the other two. They were building it pretty well until the run-in finish, too. Shame. Not much of a fan of any Michaels/Mysterio match. They're fine, but I don't think those two match up all that great and I wouldn't rush to see another match between them. 

Another question- why the FUCK did they release Luke Gallows and Mike Knox?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

2010 Superstars set is an investment I'll never regret. So much McIntyre, Gallows, Kidd, Benjamin, Ziggler, Jericho, Mysterio, etc.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Eddie Tribute match was very emotional particularly when Rey won and everyone could just let it out. That was one of the saddest episodes of WWE programming I ever had to sit through.

I don't remember why Gallows and Knox were released. I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to the company not having any ideas to use them.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think Gallows/Knox got released along with about 4 or 5 others in late '10. I think Croft and Archer were part of it too. I liked most of those guys too. :/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I gotta check Drew v Kofi; I didn't think McIntyre got a singles match on PPV then. McIntyre v Christian should have been a World Title feud by this point in 2012. Hell, it possibly could have been in 2010 but instead we got Kane v Edge in one of my least favourite feuds in the history of wrestling. Just a horrible, dreadful, painful, awful, terrible feud.
> 
> I should get on all of the Chris Masters stuff again. If it wasn't for Mysterio he probably would have been the best in the WWE that year. I'm not exaggerating. I'll watch all of the Rey/Punk matches again too. And anything Regal and Goldust did. And some Evan Bourne, Sheamus and Ziggler. And I never saw the Lawler/Miz TLC, so that, too. Man WWE were putting out some motherfucking consistency in 2010.
> 
> PS everybody watch this Rey/Taker from SD- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vypJCPQdvwM I never actually saw their Rumble match (I'll watch THAT right now, actually), but I'll be surprised if it was this good.


It's good stuff. You'd like to think those two would have been led to advance to the top of the card like that. Christian suffered an injury following the McIntyre feud and Drew...well...they killed him. No other way to say it other than that. Yep, Kane vs Edge sucked. I dig both those guys so for WWE to give me a shitty program like that was pretty off putting. Even their match on PPV blew. Then they have an awesome LMS match to start 2011. Go fucking figure. 

YES. I loved so much about 2010 within the WWE. I ate up a lot of what there were dishing out with a spoon. Although I'll give my opinion on it, Miz vs Lawler TLC isn't anything noteworthy. Some botches, contrived spots, but it had good drama with the crowd. They would CRUSH it with their awesome match at Elimination Chamber 2011 (granted it isn't from the same year)

btw, if you haven't seen Drew vs Kofi from Fatal Four Way, then I'm gonna go out on a limb and think you haven't seen the PPV. Which means you're missing out on seriously what was one of the biggest surprises of the year: Chris Jericho vs Evan Bourne. Only claim it a surprise b/c they worked it like a Japanese junior style. So naturally I was marking out for it. MOTN on the PPV. Around that time where Bourne was HOT in the company.

Yeah, WWE put a bullet through my heart when they canned Mike Knox. Morons. Hoping TNA actually uses him well. Gallows too. The releasing of Hoyt(Archer) was no surprise. They didn't use him well from the start. Didn't seem to matter as he went over to Japan and he's doing quite well for himself. Much the same with Harry Smith. And yeah, his match vs Regal from 12/30/10 Superstars is :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, I gotta watch Jericho/Bourne as well. Shit I just remembered I never watched the Team WWE/Nexus tag at SummerSlam either. Goddamn I want to watch a lot of stuff right now. I'm starting w/ Regal/Smith.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

I dig the WWE/Nexus tag too. That angle was so hot that the crowd bought into every part of the match. Who knows, maybe you'll actually like Skip Sheffield's parts in the match. :hmm:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget about Undertaker/Rey from 2003 just after WM (tournament for the #1 contendership). Its only about 4-5 minutes long, but its Rey taking a beating from Undertaker, so definitely worth a watch lol.

HBK/Rey... shame they never had a great match together. Eddie tribute was probably as good as it possibly could have been given the situation. The SD match probably SHOULD have been a classic but it didn't really click for me at all. Still good, but nothing beyond that. 

2010 had a bunch of really good and fun TV matches (SD and Superstars, anyway. Don't remember Raw too well). Kane and Dolph had a nice series of matches at the start of the year too believe it or not.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

- During Linda McMahon's failed bid for the US Senate, there was a lot of speculation over WWE's upcoming Attitude Era DVD and how restricted the content would be. The speculation was furthered because WWE went from pulling the DVD listings to not plugging it at all on TV.
WWE began plugging the DVD this week and a fan who received an early confirms that the content will be rated TV-14 and that there are very few edits including cuss words, bleeding and other stuff that you wouldn't find with today's WWE product. The DVD is officially in stores today.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

hey does anyone have a trailer for the DVD ? I didn't watch raw last night so i was wondering if they advertised it or plugged it in


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

http://www.dailymotion.com/wcwAttitude#video=xv6yq2

For anyone that hasn't seen the new NWO DVD. Enjoy


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Night of Champions 2012*

_The Miz vs Sin Cara vs Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes_

What the fuck was this ? I know Rey can work great with pretty much anybody, but you really had to give him both MIZ AND CARA IN THE SAME MATCH? That's just downright sadistic. The match can be entertaining at times but the action and interactions between the four seem so plodded and forced that I don't exactly know where to start. Whenever Mysterio and Rhodes seem to lock up, magic happens and it saves the match from being an absolute fail, whereas every other combination just absolutely SUCKS BALLS.

Seriously, I've seen this match get some rave reviews, but the action isn't all that great. The ending is one of the most awkwardly BAD things you'll ever see in a wrestling match as it makes no sense. Miz may be bad in this one, but Sin Cara is GREAT KHALI bad. As a matter of fact, I'd put Khali's run in WWE workrate wise FAR above Sin Cara. DEAD SERIOUS. What a fucking disappointment. Some shining lights with REY , but he deserves better. An opening match should flow much better than this one.

****

_Kofi Kingston/R-Truth vs Daniel Bryan/Kane_

OH this match was a wonderful change of pace from the last match. This was entertainment 101 from WWE here, with Bryan and Kane pandering to the crowd and having the crowd just eat it the fuck up. I don't usually like Kofi/Truth in the ring, but when paired with one of the best in-ring workers probably EVER in Danielson, and a fantastic big man in Kane, it makes for some interesting interactions. This was the Daniel Bryan show however, as his heelish entertainment style tendencies are more over than ever, why I believe he'll be WWE Champion next year.

ANYWAYS , this match was short but solid. Don't have a ton to say about it but a really fun match that you can watch more than once, and it seems like WWE has resurrected the tag division for a few months anyways ALA 2002.

*** 3/4*

_Antonio Cesaro vs Zack Ryder_

How the fuck did they manage to book Zack Ryder so badly ? I Mean GOD , here's a guy that should have been an upper midcarder by now, but it seems as if WWE wants to place him a step below Santino of all people. Anyways, this is less of a match and more of a showcase for Antonio Cesaro to show a PPV audience what his awesome moveset is like, and basically how he operates a match. Ryder essentially just gets the shit kicked out of him and lies around for like 6 minutes while Cesaro looks awesome. Cesaro looks like such a cocky prick in this one that I absolutely fucking adore it. You know what ? This is one of those short little matches that I could watch a million times as we get Antonio being awesome, Ryder selling like a champ, and a ROUGH RYDER APPEARANCE OMG. As a matter of fact , Ryder-Kane could have worked as a team to revitalize the division while Bryan's off being awesome and having great matches with Cena and Rey or something. It still pisses me off that Ryder has only wrestled THREE PPV singles matches.. EVER. ANYWAYS.. Yeah this was decent.

*** 1/4*

_Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton_

AH YES, a non-title match at Night of Champions that just so happens to (almost) steal the show ! If Sheamus vs Ziggler from No Way Out was the night of a thousand sleeper holds , this was the night of a thousand sleeper holds part 2 , as Ziggler just wears down Orton constantly with the hold, cranking on DAT BOY until it eventually costs him in the end (great mini-story thrown in by both of these guys). Ziggler always seems to make the sleeper look like the greatest move ever made for some reason, I don't even know how he does it anymore. Very athletic contests as these two have the best standing dropkicks in the WWE today, and exchange some very athletic holds both standing and on the ground. 

God Vickie is so fucking annoying, I hate that she does her job so well. Great story here as Ziggler is like a rabid dog jumping all over Orton trying to keep him away from his initial burst, and trying to prevent Orton from going (to quote Michael Cole) "to that place that only Randy Orton goes" . For the most part Ziggler succeeds until things start spilling out of Control in which Orton easily takes over. The finish is extremely creative as it plays on the whole "sleeper" story where Orton basically reverses a sleeper into an RKO somehow. AWESOME. One of the upper echelon matches of the year and probably the best NON-**** match of 2012. These guys have great chemistry together and should have a few title matches down the road. REALLY reminiscent of Edge-Orton from Vengeance 04 IMO.

**** 3/4*

_Layla vs Eve_

This got the exact amount of time as the Ryder match, which kind of really pisses me off. It's funny because this isn't even the worst match on the show, as Layla seems to be a really good worker nowadays and EVE is such a skank bitch that everybody hates her enough to care about half of her matches when we actually have a qualifiable babyface such as Layla is. It's a fucking DIVAS match, what the fuck do you want me to say ? Slightly better than the opener.

****

_Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio_

I have to put my personal feelings about the storyline to the side on this one (RECAP OF THE SHEAMUS-DEL RIO FEUD ; IT SUCKED) in order to give the match it's due. Most of the time I really can't stand Del Rio , but he was pretty damn good in this one, picking Sheamus's arm apart through various moves. The psychology in this one is spot on as Del Rio is deathly afraid of the Brogue Kick so he reverts to his own gameplan which is attacking the left arm over and over and over and over again. This makes sense because his finisher is a fucking ARM-BAR FFS (why doesn't he do this more often?). ANYWAYS, these two have some really great exchanges here with moves being countered all over the place and whatnot, it's almost like after the 8653 matches they've had together they've finally figured their shit out.

We even get a great moment where everybody thinks Sheamus is going to tap, only for him to somehow hang on and reach the ropes (I'll get to my problem with this in a quick second) , then Sheamus takes Del Rio's head off for the win. This was a pretty good match, HOWEVER... IT HAD NO FUCKING DRAMA WHATSOEVER. We all knew Sheamus wasn't going to tap, we all knew that nobody gave a single fuck about Del Rio, and I know that isn't really a match criticism per se but something seems REALLY off about this one that I can't give it THAT high of a rating but it definitely deserves something. A really weird match. It was pretty great/good, but I don't ever wanna watch it again and I don't really like it.

**** 1/4*

_CM Punk vs John Cena_

RESPECT. That's what this feud was all about, however that isn't what this match was all about. These two have delivered some of the greatest matches in WWE history over the past two years, so obviously when you pair the two up we have some really high expectations. These two surpass any other two individuals in the company in the sense that they counter each others moves on the fly so much and so fluently that it almost makes me wonder did they give it the Randy Savage treatment and plan it out before they went out there and performed. This match featured some of the best exchanges of moves and some of the most drama and excitement you'll ever see in a wrestling match , which makes it a classic of course, but it also takes away from the match in a point that I'll get to in a second.

Whereas the MITB and SS matchups were more or less about who is the greatest wrestler of the two which made the many many exchanges and kickouts make a ton of sense , this should have been a more story-driven match. We don't really get a sense of Punk's passion and his fire for Cena's respect other than the ending slap and his cocky Rock Bottom pin attempt. Instead we get two attitude adjustments , two GTS's , multiple STF's , and even a damn Rock Bottom. That's more finishers than we need in a match, and even though I fucking ate all of these finishers up and fucking adored this match with a passion (one of my favorites of the year) , it hurt the match from a story perspective whilst adding to the drama.

The ending ; FUCK THAT SHIT. Just look at the list of finishers I put up in the last paragraph that these two did to one another, and it ends it a draw ? I know we have to establish these guys as equals (Punk is the only full-time HEEL to have ever been considered Cena's equal I do believe) but can we have a better ending than that ? Just didn't make sense to the story whatsoever. HOWEVER, this was an amazing match and one of the best of the year (despite my bitching and complaining). These two bring out the special things in each other as they aren't afraid to take risks together in the hopes of putting on another classic (SEE ; Cena's suicide dive) and this definitely isn't an exception as it's probably my third FAVORITE match of the year and a top 10 match overall. Give us more of a story from all of these finisher attempts, show us more about Punk's anguish, and give us a decent ending and this has the potential to be the full FIVE, dead serious.

***** 1/4*

_Thoughts_

This was essentially a two match show for me, as everything else could have been on a Raw or a Smackdown barring Sheamus-Del Rio which I don't care for in the slightest (glad Sheamus moved on from that overhyped piece of trash). We get an all-time classic main event that you can rate anywhere from **** to **** 3/4 depending on your tastes, and it's Punk vs Cena in a singles match for the title on PPV, obviously it's going to be fucking awesome. Ziggler/Orton marks will likely adore their match and might even put it as MOTN but I doubt it honestly.

The opener REALLY cripples the show as it sets a tone that's kind of slow and plodding. If the opener had to be faster and better coordinated we're looking at a pretty great show overall here, but instead we get an okay SHOW with two awesome matches (I guess that makes this a GOOD SHOW). This show is overrated for obvious reasons, but it's honestly worth the price of admission for Zigz-Orton and Punk-Cena alone. Overall this is probably in the middle of the pack when rating PPVs this year. GOOD stuff though, check it out.

*7/10*


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*TLC 2011 Review (12/18/11)

Quick Thoughts: Since TLC 2012 is coming up I thought I might as well recheck out the previous one. Decent show, some hiccups and overall ultimately forgettable... like really forgettable but you got some solid matches in there. LOL @ how far Ryder has fallen since this event where he won the strap.*

Dolph Ziggler vs. Zack Ryder- **3/4
Air Boom vs. Primo & Epico- ***
Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett- ***1/2
Beth Phoenix vs. Kelly Kelly- *3/4
Triple H vs. Kevin Nash- ***1/2-***3/4
Sheamus vs. Jack Swagger- *
Mark Henry vs. Big Show- *
Big Show vs. Daniel Bryan- N/A
Cody Rhodes vs. Booker T- *
CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz- ***1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*TLC 2011*

Zack Ryder vs Dolph Ziggler : **** 1/4*
Air Boom vs MEXICANS : *** 1/4*
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (Tables) : *** 3/4*
Beth Phoenix vs Kelly Kelly : ** 3/4*
Triple H vs Kevin Nash (Ladder) : **** 1/4*
Sheamus vs Jack Swagger : ** 1/4*
Mark Henry vs The Big Show (Chairs) : *** 1/2*
Daniel Bryan vs The Big Show : *N/A*
Cody Rhodes vs Booker T : ****
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs The Miz : ******

Some Quick Hit Thoughts :

- FUCK YOU WWE. Ryder was over as shit and still could be over as shit.
- Hate random filler tag matches with a passion, but this one was DECE
- Orton-Barrett is good by Barrett standards but heavily overrated nonetheless
- The Divas match was a Divas match. NUFF SAID.
- The sledgehammer ladder match is a pleasant surprise and the most underrated of 2011
- Fuck mindless filler like Sheamus-Swagger
- Henry-Show did what they could to entertain given Henry's health at the time.
- D-Bry deserved the title in retrospect but deserves it even more now
- Booker T deserved more time than this
- The best match in the WWE careers of ADR and Miz, given to them by the Best in the World nonetheless. 
- Love the opener, love the main event, love the ladder match. Have a soft spot in my heart for all Henry-Show matches, D-Bry, and Booker as well. Punk-HHH-Ryder-Bryan all win in one night = A PPV I enjoy 

*6/10*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

God so many great matches but I have finals in 2 weeks!!!!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TLC 2011 (Matches I can remember):

Zack Ryder vs Dolph Ziggler : ***1/4
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (Tables) : **1/2
Triple H vs Kevin Nash (Ladder) : **
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs The Miz : ***3/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIr-IhFUbw0

William Regal v Evan Bourne 3/4/10. Really, really awesome 6 minute match. Bit of a unique Regal match where his opponent was essentially trying to chop him down (when not being stretched and destroyed). Regal looked unbelievably good and everything he did looked so nasty and vicious. Bourne's selling ruled. Man Regal had an extremely overlooked 2010.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Regal is the fucking man. Bourne plays the undersized babyface role (a la Mysterio) really well. Hope he returns soon.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I wish he would stop being forced into random tag teams. Bourne IS a hell of a face in peril, though. So, at the very least, be given someone good to tag with. I wouldn't say no Christian at this point since they've seemingly given up on trying to push him.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

*Bragging Rights 2009*

The Miz vs. John Morrison
*** ~ Lame finish, but a solid opener nonetheless.

Beth Phoenix, Natalya, and Michelle McCool vs. Melina, Gail Kim, and Kelly Kelly
* ~ Typical divas match. 

World Heavyweight Championship
Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista
***1/4 ~ Fun little match. Fast paced and short, but good action.

14 Man Interbrand Tag
Team SmackDown! vs. Team RAW
*** ~ Some people got barely any ring time which bothered me, but it was still a good match.

60 Minute No DQ Ironman Match For The WWE Championship
John Cena vs. Randy Orton
*** ~ This was entertaining for the most of the first half, but it really DRAGGED for a good 15 minutes later on. I also thought the pyro spots were pretty damn stupid. There was just enough good to warrant the rating, but a lot of bad stuff.

Overall an OKAY show, but really nothing worth seeing.​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh... THAT FUCKING IRONMAN MATCH.

Ordered a shitload of stuff off of WWESHOP the other day, including an Orton Superfan package. Moved up a size, so now I'm gonna fill up my wardrobe with WWESHOP shirts because they're the comfiest fucking things ever and everybody knows me as "The Wrestling Guy / Gym Fanatic" anyways. Gonna celebrate acquiring an Orton autograph by doing a top 25 list when it finally arrives 

Interestingly enough a few weeks ago I was watching the Rock vs Cena DVD with my girlfriend (who bought it for me) and she thought it was an awesome match and told me she would watch wrestling full time if every match was like that one. I think the pre-match hype videos and high production values of the WWE actually DO attract casual eyes and make the product seem cleaner to the general audience. Still couldn't believe she said that though. Maybe because the only other match we watched was the 1995 Rumble.. HMMM I'm a terrible boyfriend 

Had a good 12 WWE shirts that I bought last christmas but I outgrew them all. So I'm copping these for Christmas ;

- CM Punk "GTS"
- CM Punk "GTS" Long Sleeve
- CM Punk "GTS" Zip-Up Hoodie
- "I'm a Paul Heyman Guy" Shirt (Gonna be my avatar when I get it)
- Orton "Strike First" (Comes with the superfan package)
- CM Punk "Best in the underworld" (shitty T, really cheap)
- CM Punk "I dig crazy chicks"

More suggestions (I want another 4-7 shirts) ? Opinions on wearing Wrestling merchandise (asking this here because you guys have the only relevant opinions on the site  )

OH AND I'M WATCHING DISC 2 OF THE TOP 50 FINISHERS NOW :hhh


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Sucks that you've grown out of all your shirts lol. I've only really worn/bought wrestling shirts at wrestling events. The odd time I have worn them out and about but not very often. They're comfortable for wearing around the house though and/or for working out. 

I have to ask, why are you ordering 3 of the same thing? Aren't those first 3 Punk shirts all basically the same?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've grown out of most of my wrestling t-shirts. Because I keep putting on weight :lmao. Every so often I'll lose some and they'll fit again. Then they stop fitting. Then they fit. Then stop. Stupid food making me fat. SCREW YOU, FOOD.

Wish someone would hurry up and put the AE documentary online. So far some cunt upload the full bluray image for the first disc. 45GB? No thanks. Don't have the hard drive space plus it would take me a week to fucking download. A rip would be nice please!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> I've grown out of most of my wrestling t-shirts. Because I keep putting on weight :lmao. Every so often I'll lose some and they'll fit again. Then they stop fitting. Then they fit. Then stop. *Stupid food making me fat. SCREW YOU, FOOD.*
> 
> Wish someone would hurry up and put the AE documentary online. So far some cunt upload the full bluray image for the first disc. 45GB? No thanks. Don't have the hard drive space plus it would take me a week to fucking download. A rip would be nice please!


Serious question, Cal. Are you this guy?










lmao I'm just kidding lol)

Agreed on the AE set. I saw that file and it's huge. I've been given a warning for not seeding enough though. The fuck is that shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, I'm a white version of this guy:










Got myself WWE 13 on PS3 for £24.99. I'm happy. Good old amazon.co.uk black friday week sales :mark:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Haha. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there being Ryback and all. He's a beast and Viscera's just, well, a _beast_.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've legitimately had nightmares about Viscera trying to crush me to death. He's the only wrestler I've ever had any kind of fear for .

Silvervision FINALLY getting the Wrestling with Shadows 10th Anniversary edition that comes with the Owen Hart doc. Got a copy version, but want the real thing. Plus, I think they is doing a black friday sale this week too :mark:.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Serious question, Cal. Are you this guy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just fucking LOST IT reading your conversation together :lol :lol

@Starbuck , I'm a mega-Punk fan and it's cold as balls out here now so I'm probably not going to wear the actual GTS shirt until spring/summer outside. I just love being a fucking Punk mark and having everybody know it. I went straight edge for a year for that motherfucker despite having a whole HOST of alcoholics as friends :lol Obviously went back , but stopped now because of training purposes.

This Top 50 Finishers DVD is FUN but I don't wanna miss class .... Or DO I ? :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't miss class for the top 50 finishers dvd. Well, depends on the class. Get Tombstone: History of The Undertaker. THEN you can skip class. Any class. Ever.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> I've legitimately had nightmares about Viscera trying to crush me to death. He's the only wrestler I've ever had any kind of fear for .
> 
> Silvervision FINALLY getting the Wrestling with Shadows 10th Anniversary edition that comes with the Owen Hart doc. Got a copy version, but want the real thing. Plus, I think they is doing a black friday sale this week too :mark:.


SV doing a BF sale :shocked: not sure my bank account can cope, already got around 30 DVDs I'm buying between ROH, SMV and RF.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

That top 50 finishers DVD was really boring to me, same with the top 50 incidents one.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Got myself WWE 13 on PS3 for £24.99. I'm happy. Good old amazon.co.uk black friday week sales :mark:.


Btw, just wondering if there's a specific link to this or something. I'm looking on amazon and can't see it listed for that price anywhere.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Btw, just wondering if there's a specific link to this or something. I'm looking on amazon and can't see it listed for that price anywhere.


Was in the black friday offers, and they only last about 2 hours each so its already ended unfortunately. Shame too, because they didn't sell out either.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Was in the black friday offers, and they only last about 2 hours each so its already ended unfortunately. Shame too, because they didn't sell out either.




I'm looking at this Kindle Fire thing though. Anybody have any experience with these things? I'm too cheap to buy an ipad lol but this is looking like a great alternative so far.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thinking of getting that for my girlfriend for Christmas actually. I think she already bought me WWE 13 for Christmas because I was telling her what I wanted for Christmas and when I mentioned WWE 13 she said "DO NOT BUY THAT... WHATEVER YOU DO" ...... Last Christmas break I spent about 2 weeks where I played WWE 12 online for 12 hours a day trying to move up in the leaderboards, was top 100 for a REAAAALLYYY long time and I plan on doing the same for 13. Always used Taker, believe it or not. DAT UNSTOPPABLE HELLS GATE !

That Tombstone DVD is one of the best ever. Watched the whole thing about 3 times, which is pretty insane considering the length. I'm assuming "Unreleased Collector's Series" sets will be released every year now like how they release atleast 1 top 50 DVD, 1 WCW, 1 ECW etc. and I believe the next top 2 candidates would have to be Taker and HBK, am I right ? I'd LOVE a Flair or a Trips unreleased set (maybe even a Savage) , but we can't even get a NORMAL Trips 3-disc set so why bitch and complain for another.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, bloody missed the WWE 13 offer, thought it'd last all day.

That Wrestling with Shadows DVD is a re-release with a different cover isnt it (as i already have the original 2 Disc release).


----------



## WTFWWE (Apr 10, 2012)

*The Attitude Era DVD documentry was fucking terrible*

First of all it lasted for around 50 minutes. Hardly talked about anything worth talking about but when they did talk about something good it lasted as long as this post took to write (2 minutes) most of the documentary is full of interviews of the wrestlers saying "Attitude Era was too far" "Attitude Era was way too edgy" "I wouldn't let my children watch it today" it was like Vince told them to bury the Attitude Era to put over the current product which in my opinion is disgusting. 

WWE has released some bad doc's but this takes the award for the worst ever. Wait until you watch this shit. Oh and most of the superstar interviews are with The Big Show of all people and he is boring as fuck anyone with an interesting opinion like Austin, Rock or Vince Russo (You heard that right) last all of 1 minute to some of it lasting 30 seconds tops. 

Don't buy this for the documentary because it is trash buy it for the extra matches and the moments.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

*Re: The Attitude Era DVD documentry was fucking terrible*

50 minutes? Jesus.

Trying to make a quick buck off the greatest and biggest era without putting in any effort at all. Well I wont be buying that DVD.

I kinda thought they wouldn't of put much effort in. Fuckers.


----------



## septurum (Mar 16, 2009)

*Re: The Attitude Era DVD documentry was fucking terrible*

DVD discussion thread up top.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

*Re: The Attitude Era DVD documentry was fucking terrible*



The-Rock-Says said:


> 50 minutes? Jesus.
> 
> Trying to make a quick buck off the greatest and biggest era without putting in any effort at all. Well I wont be buying that DVD.
> 
> I kinda thought they wouldn't of put much effort in. Fuckers.


(Y)


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

*Re: The Attitude Era DVD documentry was fucking terrible*

TBH, I wasn't really all that interested in this documentary because there have already been a bunch of documentaries and books on the AE. Seriously, did we need another one? Also, if what you said was true, OP, then I have even less interest than what I had before.


----------



## WTFWWE (Apr 10, 2012)

*Re: The Attitude Era DVD documentry was fucking terrible*



septurum said:


> DVD discussion thread up top.


An individual thread will give it more exposure though hardly anyone talks in the DVD thread. Trust me I checked there first.


----------



## WTFWWE (Apr 10, 2012)

Another thread merged and another discussion pretty much killed :/


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

They should of really put the effort in and done it properly. 2 hour DVD Doc.

Go through talking about the stars (Austin, Rock. HHH, Foley, Vince etc etc)

Talk about the best matches and feuds. Talk about the best moments and the most controversial moments.

Backstage stuff, the heat between wrestlers and such. Such a wasted opportunity.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

anyone got online links for the DVD ? judging by the way you guys are describing it i'm not keen on wasting my green on that 

really disappointed


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its online now on XWT, so if torrents aren't your thing, it should be on youtube or something in a few hours probably. 15 minutes left for me to download it.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

WWE buried the AE era in this set lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Raw 1000 set looks MUCH better than the AE set imo and will definitely be one of the first orders I make off this new free mantle place when it gets up and running. Will be great to have all that stuff in HD quality. 

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/full-list-wwe-raw-top-100-moments-dvd/30441/


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just saw that myself. LOVE the listings. (Y)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I really hope we get the Triple H 3 disc set next year too. They can't delay it again. If they do I'm just going to give up lol. He's more than overdue a set at this stage tbh. He hasn't had a documentary release since 2002. I think if they do it properly and talk about everything that you would think should be talked about on a Triple H DVD, it has the potential to be one of the best ones out, especially if they go into detail about certain things lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah need a GAME DVD complete w/documentary about how much he OWNS ASAP.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I really hope we get the Triple H 3 disc set next year too. They can't delay it again. If they do I'm just going to give up lol. He's more than overdue a set at this stage tbh. He hasn't had a documentary release since 2002. I think if they do it properly and talk about everything that you would think should be talked about on a Triple H DVD, it has the potential to be one of the best ones out, especially if they go into detail about certain things lol.


Would buy if the listing was half decent. I have his one that came out in '08 (I think) and it may not have a doc but it's solid. Documentary would own though. Would mark if Trips/Benjamin made it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That's the bit I want the most. The documentary to tell his story because it's never really gotten the proper treatment for a WWE doc. If they managed to throw together a decent match listing and put a few cool extras on it then it would own. Only thing is, I don't see him being very hands on with a DVD like other guys are with theirs. I don't think he's really bothered all that much lol and most likely probably doesn't have the time to sit and have a good think about it and all that stuff. Even still, as a huge mark for the guy I want the fucking DVD yet they seem intent on delaying it every year they announce it for release. Hunter burying his own DVD. Dafuq Trips?


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> The Raw 1000 set looks MUCH better than the AE set imo and will definitely be one of the first orders I make off this new free mantle place when it gets up and running. Will be great to have all that stuff in HD quality.
> 
> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/full-list-wwe-raw-top-100-moments-dvd/30441/


Damn now that looks pretty good. Some good moments over the years, plus the full show.

Blu ray pick up for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I have the King of Kings DVD and although the match listing is pretty great and he talks a bit in between each match, I REALLY want a proper documentary similar to HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph doc where they touch on some of Michaels' checkered past. They could go into detail on Hunter's take on the Curtain Call, S. Series 97, marriage w/Steph and how he is perceived as "boning his way to the top," etc.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Love that they're putting another Roundtable on as a BD extra and I'm not even bothered about the obvious repeats since for a lot it will be the first time unblurred.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> Would buy if the listing was half decent. I have his one that came out in '08 (I think) and it may not have a doc but it's solid. Documentary would own though. Would mark if Trips/Benjamin made it.


Are you talking about their first match? In which case, I wouldn't hold my breath. Benoit is standing at ring-side and we know those idiots are too pussy to even show the smallest shot of his face on the screen for a second.

Trips/Austin vs Benoit/Jericho is essential, though. The quad tear and just it being an epic match! Since it's Triple H, there's a small bit of hope I think. If anyone has full pull for this type of thing, it's him and he's openly claimed that Benoit is a guy he respects more than most others and his previous DVD mentioned the Wolverine openly in reference to that tag match.

I'm not the biggest Trips fan but I would love a DVD discussing his coming up and all that. Do we know anything about his pre-wrestling life anyways?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Agreed, love them putting rountables on some sets nowadays. "Shawn Michaels Mocks Montreal" being a bonus feature = WIN.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Are you talking about their first match? In which case, I wouldn't hold my breath. Benoit is standing at ring-side and we know those idiots are too pussy to even show the smallest shot of his face on the screen for a second.
> 
> Trips/Austin vs Benoit/Jericho is essential, though. The quad tear and just it being an epic match! Since it's Triple H, there's a small bit of hope I think. If anyone has full pull for this type of thing, it's him and he's openly claimed that Benoit is a guy he respects more than most others and his previous DVD mentioned the Wolverine openly in reference to that tag match.
> 
> I'm not the biggest Trips fan but I would love a DVD discussing his coming up and all that. Do we know anything about his pre-wrestling life anyways?


That's true. There have been a few instances where he's been in DVDs though. The WCW Nitro DVD and the chamber DVD (although there'd be outrage if the NYR '05 match was left off). And agree on TMPT vs Benoit/Jericho. That's one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> I have the King of Kings DVD and although the match listing is pretty great and he talks a bit in between each match, I REALLY want a proper documentary similar to HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph doc where they touch on some of Michaels' checkered past. *They could go into detail on Hunter's take on the Curtain Call, S. Series 97, marriage w/Steph and how he is perceived as "boning his way to the top," etc.*


Yep. If they go into detail about most of the controversial things surrounding his career and we get him and others to speak about them then that would be awesome to see imo. The list of people they could interview and talk to to get perspective for a Trips DVD is nuts. Trips, Vince, Shane, Linda, Steph, Shawn, Nash, Waltman, Flair, Arn, Dusty, Regal, Show, Rock, Austin, Cena, Orton, Batista, Jericho, Foley, Taker if they let him and the list goes on and on. If they do it right I think it has real potential and I'm not just saying that because I mark for him. His story to the top sure as hell is an interesting one lol.

EDIT - I think a Trips DVD is also the best shot we have of getting the Power Trip vs. The Chris's on DVD since you guys are discussing it. There's no way they can't include it considering how significant it is to Hunter's career. They would no doubt do a whole section on his first quad tear so you would think the match would make it on.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damnit Starbuck you're making me want this DVD now.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> EDIT - I think a Trips DVD is also the best shot we have of getting the Power Trip vs. The Chris's on DVD since you guys are discussing it. There's no way they can't include it considering how significant it is to Hunter's career. They would no doubt do a whole section on his first quad tear so you would think the match would make it on.


Never say never but in this case, I say never. They might show footage of the match but they will cut it so that we only see Austin, Jericho and Triple H compete in the match. I think they've done that before.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I've been wanting if for forever now. They had it on the list for the past 2 years and then took it off for some reason. It's on the list again for around this time next year iirc. They had better not fucking take it off again lol. 

:hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

This attitude Era doc is so poorly organised . Has a beginning and a end but it seems everything in between is a mess. They also splice in so many interviews from other dvds you would feel ripped off .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> EDIT - I think a Trips DVD is also the best shot we have of getting the Power Trip vs. The Chris's on DVD since you guys are discussing it. There's no way they can't include it considering how significant it is to Hunter's career. They would no doubt do a whole section on his first quad tear so you would think the match would make it on.


In Orton's DVD, they had no problem completely no-selling SummerSlam 04, so I doubt they have any problem handicapping another documentary because of one man's involvement. But since it's Triple H, I wouldn't completely rule it out. The quad injury that put him out for 8 months is mandatory to bring up and if _King of Kings_ mentioned Benoit by name, the full match being included wouldn't surprise me. Actually, it would but I assume they would do it like _Satan's Prison_ where they mute any positive comments made about Benoit, which is stupid but still better than nothing.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just about to watch it now before I go to bed. Not expecting much after all these comments lol but hey, at least it's something new to watch.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm interested in a HHH DVD and him bragging about how he enjoyed burying everyone and that if he could live forever he'd be the centerpiece of WWE for all of it's existence and he'd bury every young and up and coming star and then he'd bury them if they ever get made. I want him to talk about the story where Vince wanted him to start using a shovel as his signature weapon but HHH realized people would draw connections to that and him burying young talent and as such, he demanded that the sledgehammer be his weapon instead.

I also want to hear him talk about how depressed he got after the birth of his last daughter because he's come to the realization he'll never have a son to be HHH Junior and continue the burying when HHH has passed on. Then he snapped out of the depression when he realized one of his daughters could become the first female WHC and be the biggest game changer for wrestling, making it a female dominated sports entertainment show.

Oh, and if he doesn't talk about how much he secretly loved and approved of the Katie Vick angle, then I'm going to burn every copy of the DVD in existence the first day it comes out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AE doc is alright. Better than the NWO DVD. Only real complaint I have is the time. Should have been 2 hours. I do find it hilarious though how they constantly talk about how the era was so fucking successful because they let guys be more themselves and they spend so much time making sure everyone had a story and no time was wasted and shit. I wonder if they realised while making this that "hey, ratings these days suck. We have maybe 5 actual stars. Maybe... we should try a different approach. Perhaps one that has worked in the past?". I don't want to see that horrible crash TV bollocks from 98 and 99 (got toned down a LOT when Russo left), but I DO wanna see better characters and everyone seemingly doing something so we don't end up with 2 hours of a 3 hour Raw being utterly pointless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Disappointing to hear about the Attitude Era doc. Now I'm really not gonna buy it. Wasn't sure if any gems would be discussed and worth hearing. It's a topic I'm all too familar with so I'm passing. Same with the nWo set. I have just about everything ON the nWo aside from that so I doubt they let me know of something I don't already know.

I'd buy the Triple H set if it was actually loaded. I own his first one. It's so glossed over it's disappointed, although good. Needed MUCH more. A fine excuse for me to own matches vs Mankind @ KOTR '97 and vs Owen Hart @ WrestleMania 14. Both of which I love.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Is the AE doc posted anywhere online?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Surprised they gave Punk's pipe bomb moment the highest number of any post 99 segment in RAW history. DAT BOY PUNK GETTIN' MAD RESPECT , FEELIN DAT unk2 . Seriously, it just goes to show how much stock WWE has put into Punk over the last year, which is why I believe he'll get his Wrestlemania main event this year. Usually WWE put Cena over HUGE on these DVDs , but to say that Punk's biggest Raw moment was bigger than ANYBODY else's not including Austin/Mcmahon/Rock/Jericho is INSANE and must be a sign of how good the WWE thinks Punk actually is. 



> I'm interested in a HHH DVD and him bragging about how he enjoyed burying everyone and that if he could live forever he'd be the centerpiece of WWE for all of it's existence and he'd bury every young and up and coming star and then he'd bury them if they ever get made. I want him to talk about the story where Vince wanted him to start using a shovel as his signature weapon but HHH realized people would draw connections to that and him burying young talent and as such, he demanded that the sledgehammer be his weapon instead.
> 
> I also want to hear him talk about how depressed he got after the birth of his last daughter because he's come to the realization he'll never have a son to be HHH Junior and continue the burying when HHH has passed on. Then he snapped out of the depression when he realized one of his daughters could become the first female WHC and be the biggest game changer for wrestling, making it a female dominated sports entertainment show.
> 
> Oh, and if he doesn't talk about how much he secretly loved and approved of the Katie Vick angle, then I'm going to burn every copy of the DVD in existence the first day it comes out.


GOAT Post. THAT my friend, shall never ever be topped as long as we live. I might as well delete my WF account right now over how awesome that was. That's the second time today I fell off my bed in laughter due to the hilarity of a post (the other being the Starbuck-Cal feed me more meme).

Seriously though, I'm picturing HHH actually getting interviewed for his documentary and coming out and talking so much trash about every single competitor he "buried" and coming up with a reason to justify it, and it was all done in worked shoot fashion to pull the wool over the wanna-be smarks eyes who believe Trips is just a politicker who doesn't deserve anything. Oh I'd fucking lose it. :hhh "Punk had to do what was *RIGHT FOR BUSINESS*" ... Just replace Punk with any MISC. Superstar X 8867 and there's your Trips documentary.

*"So I told Vince, Van Dam's just not gonna get over"*
*"Booker had an attitude problem, and needed to do what's right for business"*
*"Orton's first title run was just a test to see if he was good for business"*
*"Steiner took more HGH than I did, so I sabotaged our two matches"*
*"Vince wanted me to bury The Streak several times , and I would have if my shovel hand didn't hurt so much from banging Steph on a gigantic pile of money in our 4 story mansion while smoking the ownership deed of the WWE in my Motorhead pipe"*

:hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH won't get a DVD set. He will get an anthology like the Big Four PPVs did. His documentary will be 17 hours long and cover every possible thing you would imagine. Right at the end will be every wrestler alive (or under employment by McMahons) saying in unison "I BELIEVE THE GAME TRIPLE H IS THE GREATEST SUPERSTAR OF ALL TIME". If their camera work is good enough they won't catch the guns held up by security by the side.

Raw 1000 set looks more interesting than anything they've put out in some time. Aside from BS like Hugh Jackman shilling his shitty robot boxing movie and the fact there's like three matches on there. I might actually hire it to watch it once, which I haven't done with a WWE DVD in two 1/2 years.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Noticed a few pages back TLC 2011 was mentioned. I liked that show. Although Triple H vs Nash was _*bad*_. Main event & the awesome United States Championship really made the show come together though. 

**** ~ TLC
***1/2 ~ Dolph/Ryder

Poor Zack. Stupid WWE.

Also (Y) @ Yeah1993 pimping the Regal vs Bourne match from Superstars 3/4/10. Bourne was so on that year + REGAL SWAG.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> *HHH won't get a DVD set. He will get an anthology like the Big Four PPVs did. His documentary will be 17 hours long and cover every possible thing you would imagine. Right at the end will be every wrestler alive (or under employment by McMahons) saying in unison "I BELIEVE THE GAME TRIPLE H IS THE GREATEST SUPERSTAR OF ALL TIME". If their camera work is good enough they won't catch the guns held up by security by the side.*
> 
> Raw 1000 set looks more interesting than anything they've put out in some time. Aside from BS like Hugh Jackman shilling his shitty robot boxing movie and the fact there's like three matches on there. I might actually hire it to watch it once, which I haven't done with a WWE DVD in two 1/2 years.


The funny thing about that , is I'd buy that shit even if it cost $300. I'm dead fucking serious. HHH's top 1000 matches. Don't try to tell me Cal wouldn't do the same for the Undertaker 

At this point I'd settle for a 3 disc DVD of every Trips opening Raw promo from 03-06. That DVD would be fucking EPIC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I couldn't afford something like that for Undertaker. I'd fucking want it. But wouldn't be able to get it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> The funny thing about that , is I'd buy that shit even if it cost $300. I'm dead fucking serious. HHH's top 1000 matches. Don't try to tell me Cal wouldn't do the same for the Undertaker


Cal almost attempted to make a DVD set with every single Mark Calaway match on tape so yeah, I believe that. 

HHH may get several DVDs chronicling everything. "HHH TOP 100 MATCHES" "HHH TOP 100 PROMOS" "HHH TOP 100 FEUDS" and of course....



Spoiler: best dvd ever no exceptions



HHH TOP 100 BURIALz


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd buy that Undertaker set. Regardless if I could afford it or not. I want every match he's ever had. Like now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone already made a 70 disc Undertaker set with everything, so saved me doing it . Mine would have included all the house show footage I could get my hands on too though .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That sounds like the greatest thing known to man.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have a 60+ disc Punk set I got from Platt. 

I haven't fully watched it all, I move around quite a bit through it. Finding promos I never saw back in '10 and such.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Okay, i've been pretty ill this week so had a 2012 PPV marathon~! :mark: 

*Royal Rumble 2012*
Bryan/Henry/Show: **1/2
Divas: Bullshit
Kane/Cena: **
Clay/McIntyre: SQUASH
Punk/Ziggles: ***
Rumble: *FUCK THIS MATCH* **

*EC 2012*
WWE Chamber: ***1/4
Divas: Skipped
WHC Chamber: **3/4
Swagger/Gabriel: *
Cena/Kane: *FUCK THIS MATCH* *

*WM 28*
Fella/Bryan: again, *FUCK THIS MATCH* DUD. Bring Bryan's robe back!
Kane/Orton: **1/2
Show/Rhodes: *3/4
Taker/HHH: ****1/2
Team Johnny/Team Teddy: *1/2
Punk/Jericho: ***1/2
Rock/Cena: ***

*Extreme Rules 2012*
Kane/Orton: ***
Rhodes/Show: *
Fella/Bryan: ****1/4
Punk/Jericho: ***3/4
Cena/Lesnar: ****1/2

*Over The Limit 2012*
Tag Team Match: **1/2
Fella/DelRio/Orton/Jericho: ***3/4
Christian/Rhodes: **3/4
Punk/Bryan: *******
Cena/Johnny: *

*NWO 2012*
Fella/Ziggler: ***1/2
Christian/Rhodes: **3/4
Punk/Kane/Bryan: ***
Cena/Show: **3/4

*MITB 2012*
SD MITB: **
Fella/DelRio: **1/2
Punk/Bryan: ***
Raw MITB: **1/2

*Summerslam 2012*
Jericho/Ziggler: ***
Bryan/Kane: **
Mysterio/Miz: **
Fella/DelRio: **1/2
Punk/Show/Cena: **
Lesnar/HHH: ***1/2

*NOC 2012*
Mysterio/Miz/Rhodes/Cara: * (HATED this, an absolute mess)
Kane&Bryan/Truth/Kingston: **
Cesaro/Ryder: **1/2
Orton/Ziggler: ***1/2
Fella/DelRio *AGAIN* ** (I didn;t care at this point)
Cena/Punk: ***1/2

*HIAC 2012*
Orton/DelRio: **1/2 (DAT BOTCH)
Rhodes Scholars/Bryan&Kane: **1/2 (Ending sucked)
Kingston/Miz: **3/4
Cesaro/Gabriel: ** (DAT UPPERCUT)
Mysterio&Cara/PTP: **
Show/Sheamus: ****1/4
Punk/Ryback: **

*Survivor Series 2012*
Team Clay/Team Tensai?: **
Cesaro/Truth: *
Show/Sheamus: ***1/2
Team Ziggler/Team Foley: **3/4
Punk/Cena/Ryback: **1/2

Phew.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, that ties w/Taker's set, Brye. Superstars 2010 & 60 discs of Punk. Lucky...punk. 

Only mega set I remember considering (that I was aware of) was the Jushin Liger set from Seabs. Think I have enough cash to get that atm. omg


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> HHH may get several DVDs chronicling everything. "HHH TOP 100 MATCHES" "HHH TOP 100 PROMOS" "HHH TOP 100 FEUDS" and of course....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd buy every single one of those sets, including the one for Raw Opening Promos 03-06. That shit would own lol. They all would. 100 DISCS OF DA GAME = :mark:

But I'll settle for one 3 disc set with a documentary, matches and some cool special features like everybody else...if we ever fucking get it lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh they have to release one. I mean, it would be odd if they wouldn't. Unless Trips doesn't like to discuss his life pre-WWE. That might be the case. He's always seemed vague about his life when it comes to giving some sort of a backstory. Or maybe it only seems that way to me. All I know about the guy is his kayfabe life story.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Oh they have to release one. I mean, it would be odd if they wouldn't. Unless Trips doesn't like to discuss his life pre-WWE. That might be the case. He's always seemed vague about his life when it comes to giving some sort of a backstory. Or maybe it only seems that way to me. All I know about the guy is his kayfabe life story.


He doesn't really talk about it much. From what I've gathered from listening to his interviews etc over the years, he's a pretty private person and my guess is he doesn't want his family on TV. He wouldn't even do MTV Cribs because he didn't want to bring cameras into his home. Said that MTV have also been on him and Stephanie to do some sort of Osbourne/Kardashian type of deal and he has had to refuse them a number of times because he didn't want to bring cameras into his home. Then again, maybe there isn't really much to tell lol. From all accounts he has a pretty normal upbringing with nothing spectacular to speak of. For a DVD though, all his parents would have to do is speak at the start with the baby pictures etc like they do in all the WWE docs lol. They could quickly skip over that part if he didn't want to spend a lot of time on it.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Speaking of complete sets, I just saw on iOffer that there is a 207 disk Ric Flair set for $500. Well, I know what I'm saving up for.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the vibe I'm getting too. I can understand not wanting to do that whole reality style thing. If I was any form of a celebrity I wouldn't be into that either. There is a difference to me that is talking about childhood/getting into wrestling than there is having cameras document every daily event in your life.

True that on the part of his parents only needing to be brief. Much like how it was on Shawn's Heartbreak & Triumph DVD. Nothing major, I guess I'm curious is all. He slightly tells us how he got into wrestling on his original doc. Feels like there has to be more. It's his life after all. I like knowing how the wrestlers found the spark to make this their career & livelihood. I can relate to the majority.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Naitch? 207 discs? 500? Fuck lol. 

:flair2

@*Sabin* - I completely agree with him on his viewpoints about celebrity though. There's an interview where he goes into it in depth actually. But fuck, could you imagine an Osbourne style reality show based on the McMahon's? That shit would be gold lol. The major sticking point for him seems to be his kids tbh. I don't think he wants them anywhere near any of that reality TV stuff. I too enjoy hearing the wrestlers stories though so it would be a real shame if he just cut that bit out but hey, at least it would be better than nothing lol.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

So, the AE doc isn't online yet?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> He doesn't really talk about it much. From what I've gathered from listening to his interviews etc over the years, he's a pretty private person and my guess is he doesn't want his family on TV. He wouldn't even do MTV Cribs because he didn't want to bring cameras into his home. Said that MTV have also been on him and Stephanie to do some sort of Osbourne/Kardashian type of deal and he has had to refuse them a number of times because he didn't want to bring cameras into his home. Then again, maybe there isn't really much to tell lol. From all accounts he has a pretty normal upbringing with nothing spectacular to speak of. For a DVD though, all his parents would have to do is speak at the start with the baby pictures etc like they do in all the WWE docs lol. They could quickly skip over that part if he didn't want to spend a lot of time on it.


In his "Making the Game" fitness manual he says that he has some bery supportive parents, and that "they're as much as parents to Stephanie as Linda and Vince are parents to me" ... DAT POLITICS. He also says in reference to his bodybuilding life and early WCW days(AND I QUOTE) "I never consumed drugs or alcohol , my vice was women ; and boy did I indulge" , so basically .........

TRIPLE H WAS THE ORIGINAL INSPIRATION FOR THA GODFATHER CHARACTER ! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! :vince


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> In his "Making the Game" fitness manual he says that he has some bery supportive parents, and that "they're as much as parents to Stephanie as Linda and Vince are parents to me" ... DAT POLITICS. He also says in reference to his bodybuilding life and early WCW days(AND I QUOTE) "I never consumed drugs or alcohol , my vice was women ; and boy did I indulge" , so basically .........
> 
> TRIPLE H WAS THE ORIGINAL INSPIRATION FOR THA GODFATHER CHARACTER ! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! :vince


:lmao 

Tbh, if he literally just sat down for the entire doc and did a shoot about his entire career, buried everybody who talked shit about him and went on a super ego trip about how he now runs shit I would mark lol. That would be awesome, haha.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watching Christian in 2009. Jesus he was great. Might be one of the best years anybody has had in WWE history. When I'm finished I'll try and think of how many are better and there won't be a whole lot I don't think.



Starbuck said:


> Said that MTV have also been on him and Stephanie to do some sort of Osbourne/Kardashian type of deal


Holy fuck that would be incredible. :lmao

"At Home with the Helmsleys"
"My Life as a McMahon"
"Get the Steph Out"
"Randy Savage's Sloppy Seconds"
"Time to Play WITH the Game"


The bad titles for the show write themselves.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Got this off Amazon brand new for a nice price.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rey in 2009 was great too. The stuff he did in the Elimination Chamber, the series with Jericho, and what I believe is a TV classic with Morrison in September. 

But Christian is just an exceptional talent with the ability to make who he is working with look like a million bucks. Guys like Swagger, Dreamer (in WWE), Ryder, Ezekiel Jackson, Yoshi Tatu, etc. have never looked better than when they were in the ring with him. Christian really improved as a singles performer with his time in TNA to his return in 2009.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I should watch Rey's 2009 afterwards as well, yeah. I never saw that Morrison match or the Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rey & Jericho just did phenomenal job working a six minute match on a June episode of Raw. I think it was the commercial free Raw. It was great seeing how much they pack into that short span of time playing off of their previous matches and also cutting a fantastic pace.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of REY .......

Most Overrated Mysterio Match : vs Eddie Guerrero (Wrestlemania XXI) 

Most Underrated Mysterio Match : vs Eddie Guerrero (June 2005)

Personal Favorite Mysterio Match : vs Lesnar (Smackdown 2003) / 2006 Rumble (was really Mysterio vs Trips for alot of it , makes me sick we never got a full time program)

The most overrated is pretty self explanatory, Rey fucks with his mask the entire time and it's just a really underwhelming bout that 411 had listed as the 5th best Mysterio match or something, DA FUCK?!?!?! 

The most underrated is more of a general fan kind of thing as I believe it gets it's due as a top 50 match ever on here (in this thread at least) anyways. The general fan has no fucking clue that this match exists and it's a shame, then again these are probably the same people who love the Wrestlemania XXI match ; therefore they can stay away from this forum and LIFE in general .

Obviously love the Rumble for DAT TRIPS and the Lesnar match for DAT BORK. Rey really is the most consistent worker perhaps ever, isn't he ? Biggest Little Man could be a darkhorse pick for greatest DVD ever for an individual performer IMO. BRETT MIXX GAVE IT IT'S DUE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Rey in 2009 was great too. The stuff he did in the Elimination Chamber, the series with Jericho, and what I believe is a TV classic with Morrison in September.
> 
> But Christian is just an exceptional talent with the ability to make who he is working with look like a million bucks. Guys like Swagger, Dreamer (in WWE), Ryder, Ezekiel Jackson, Yoshi Tatu, etc. have never looked better than when they were in the ring with him. Christian really improved as a singles performer with his time in TNA to his return in 2009.


tbf, quite a bit of guys were ON in 2009. It's why I often put it over despite the apparent hate it has. (which was from a WWE standpoint on RAW only. Not the entire wrestling aspect of the company. So it kind of leaves me sour. IT'S GOOD )

But Christian was certainly #1. He made just about everything he did worth something. While it was eventually in 2010, he got Ezekial Jackson to good matches. I'll say that EVERY SINGLE TIME b/c that still blows me away. I loathe Jackson seemingly like how Yeah1993 loathes Ryback. So, it's pretty intense.

Oh and I'll agree with you Clique on Mysterio vs Morrison being a TV classic. It's unbelievable imo. Everything about it. I. Love. That. Match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wish they kept Morrison/Rey going after Rey's suspension. That's something I wouldn't have minded seeing 5 matches out of or so.

Morrison/Mysterio/Punk/Hardy/Edge/Jericho on SD in '09.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I were talking specifics here when choosing the TV MOTY for 2009 it would have to come down to these four :

- Rey/Morrison
- Taker/Punk
- Punk/Hardy
- Swagger/Christian

I would go Punk/Hardy #1 TBH , I'm just in LOVE with that match which is insane considering I have *Choke2Death* type hate levels for Jeff Hardy. You can't go wrong with either one of these though, that's for sure.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Orton/Trips Raw LMS is quality candidate too.

I'm a fan of Morrison/Bourne and Punk/Hardy/Edge too. I already mentioned Jericho/Mysterio from Raw and they had another good one in July on SD.




Hailsabin said:


> But Christian was certainly #1. He made just about everything he did worth something. While it was eventually in 2010, he got Ezekial Jackson to good matches. I'll say that EVERY SINGLE TIME b/c that still blows me away. I loathe Jackson seemingly like how Yeah1993 loathes Ryback. So, it's pretty intense.
> 
> Oh and I'll agree with you Clique on Mysterio vs Morrison being a TV classic. It's unbelievable imo. Everything about it. I. Love. That. Match.


Completely agree. And we didn't even mention his feud with Regal in 09. They had an awesome match on ECW in November that year. As for Jackson in '10, Christian worked such a great miracle with that one I actually thought Jackson would be a major player after their matches. Oh, Christian/McIntyre matches on SD! (Y)

I adore the Mysterio/Morrison match. They went out there and just WORKED. The pace, the move execution, and counters made it a thrilling match. JR was great on commentary too. It's in my top 5 for that year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top 5 Matches of 2009 (IMO)

1. HBK vs Taker WM XXV (Obvious) : *******
2. Mysterio vs Jericho BASH 09 : ***** 1/2*
3. Punk vs Hardy SD 09 (Cage) : ***** 1/4*
4. RAW Elimination Chamber NWO 09 : ***** 1/4*
5. Punk vs Hardy SS 09 (TLC) : ******

Comparing 2012 to 2009 is simple for me ; we got WAYYY more classics out of this year so far (I think this year is insanely top-heavy like no other year we've seen) , but 2009's consistency was otherworldly. Seems like every single match that took place on TV and PPV in 2009 was ****+*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I wish they kept Morrison/Rey going after Rey's suspension. That's something I wouldn't have minded seeing 5 matches out of or so.
> 
> Morrison/Mysterio/Punk/Hardy/Edge/Jericho on SD in '09.


Best of 7 Series would have been :mark:

Toss in DOLPH, Hart Dynasty, Finlay, KNOX, & Drew McIntyre started to come out at the end. Oh, plus Batista's heel turn was awesome. Lead into a strong match vs Mysterio for #1 contendership at the World Championship. Which is what lead to Mysterio vs Undertaker on 12/25.

Even Cryme Tyme worked some good matches too. Plus early '09 Smackdown had the great Cena/Show match. 

My Smackdown '09 MOTN would be...I think either Hardy/Punk Cage or Mysterio/Morrison. Have both set at ****1/2 so it's a toss up. Two totally different styles that make each brilliant. I know the lengthy Jericho/Mysterio rematch for the Intercontinental Championship is BOSS too although it plays off all the elements that made the previous matches they had that year great.



Clique said:


> Completely agree. And we didn't even mention his feud with Regal in 09. They had an awesome match on ECW in November that year. As for Jackson in '10, Christian worked such a great miracle with that one I actually thought Jackson would be a major player after their matches. Oh, Christian/McIntyre matches on SD! (Y)
> 
> I adore the Mysterio/Morrison match. They went out there and just WORKED. The pace, the move execution, and counters made it a thrilling match. JR was great on commentary too. It's in my top 5 for that year.


Excellent. Even if the start of that program was severely weak with the 10 second "match" at Summerslam. Then they go ECW on Tuesday and get 11 minutes. Go figure. It ruled nonetheless. Great miracle, absolutely. It really, really was. Jackson is like really bad. Bumbling levels of bad. Yet, Christian literally enhanced all the elements of him that were apparently there to become a good beast to counter Christian's fast paced, high impact style. Yep. Christian vs McIntyre matches on SD in 2010 owned. Are they on youtube/dailymotion? Oh how this 2010 project is really coming together for me.

Plus that match went 18 minutes without the commercials. That's phenomenal. Most times the matches that are filled with breaks really don't average out to much of what is shown. Then there comes that match which gets all the time in the world to be developed into something special. That's what I appreciated. Such a great year for the Intercontinental Championship following WrestleMania.

Any thoughts on the last man standing match from the commercial free RAW? It's pretty much the second best Orton vs HHH match. I remember loving it. Have that one high on my list of strong TV matches during 2009. Believe it's the best RAW match of that year. Maybe I could see myself preferring the 6 minute Jericho/Mysterio match over it. Only b/c of how radical all their matches were.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like the commercial free Orton/Trips match. Have it at ****, with the original LMS being ****1/4. Don't really care for any of their other matches. Can't say I remember anything about their 2nd LMS other than the injury, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Completely agree. And we didn't even mention his feud with Regal in 09. They had an awesome match on ECW in November that year. As for Jackson in '10, Christian worked such a great miracle with that one I actually thought Jackson would be a major player after their matches. Oh, Christian/McIntyre matches on SD! (Y)


Yep, I watched the Christian/Regal from 1/14/10 and it was another good match and another excellent 2010 Regal performance. Christian was still in his incredible 2009 form. They have another match that SAME WEEK that's just as good. The best one is 8/25/09, though. Great match. Regal has a lot of all time great support, but Christian is overlooked. I wouldn't call him an all time great or anything, but he's way, way better than some people who are known as all timers. His 2009-2010 fucks with the best two-year periods in WWE history.

Christian/Swagger 2/24/09 *might* be my US MOTY ahead of Michaels/Taker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I really like the commercial free Orton/Trips match. Have it at ****, with the original LMS being ****1/4. Don't really care for any of their other matches. Can't say I remember anything about their 2nd LMS other than the injury, though.


It's great. Then they head to The Bash to have a Three Stages of Hell and it sucks. :lol

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Random 2009 Thought: The final two showdown between Taker & Trips in the SD Elimination Chamber match at No Way Out :mark:

Just two legends slugging it out and throwing out their biggest moves at each other. Sometimes finisher/kick-out fests can be greatly effective in a big match. It totally worked here as it does with the Taker/Michaels Mania matches as well as the Taker/Trips matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saved the match.

Although my level of being PISSED was at an all time high when Trips hit that second pedigree. WrestleMania soon made up for it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Since I'm a Punk/HHH mark , I might as well throw out my top 5 from 09 from each individual

Top 5 :hhh of 09

5. LMS vs Orton : **** 3/4*
4. SD Elimination Chamber : ******
3. vs Cena RAW 09 : ******
2. W/HBK vs Legacy SS 09 : ******
1. vs HBK vs Cena SS 09 : ******


Top 5 unk2 of 2009 

5. vs Taker HIAC 09 : **** 1/2*
4. vs Morrison SD 09 : **** 3/4*
3. vs Taker SD 09 : ******
2. vs Hardy SS 09 : ******
1. vs Hardy SD 09 : ******


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yes they saved the match after Koslov almost killed it! lol The match started off hot with Jeff quickly eliminating Edge but the match dragged after that until Taker came in last.

Mysterio's performance in the Raw Elimination Chamber that night simply amazing. Maybe my favorite individual EC performance to date.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> 3. vs Taker SD 09 : ******


This is the Submission Match, correct? Good match. I like the one they had on SD in '10 even more.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just got a random thought, and when I started counting numbers in my head my prediction was true ; Taker is a member of the VERY exclusive 50+ **** club (WWE exclusive). I could probably get 50 **** out of Taker, HBK, Trips (CAUSE I'M A MARK CHA SEE), and that's about it (longevity, Bret probably had the most but they weren't really televised). Thoughts ?



YEAH THAT'S THE ONE . What a great submission match. Vote 4 Punk-Taker @ Mania XXIX unk2


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Did anyone ever have this problem with ratings?

On first watch, I gave Roode vs Storm BFG 12 a **** 1/2 ( I haven't watched it since then). After awhile though, I realized I gave Taker vs HBK WM26 the same rating and it made me think "Is this match really as good as Taker vs HBK at WM26?". I don't think ti is, but I can't see myself lowering or raising any of their ratings, not like I can give Roode/Storm a **** 3/10 or something :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks to WWEShop's very nice sale, just picked up both Blu-Rays for Extreme Rules 2011 & Over The Limit 2011 for just $9.58. I'm aware OTL was shit by the way, just want it for the Orton/Christian match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ether said:


> Did anyone ever have this problem with ratings?
> 
> On first watch, I gave Roode vs Storm BFG 12 a **** 1/2 ( I haven't watched it since then). After awhile though, I realized I gave Taker vs HBK WM26 the same rating and it made me think "Is this match really as good as Taker vs HBK at WM26?". I don't think ti is, but I can't see myself lowering or raising any of their ratings, not like I can give Roode/Storm a **** 3/10 or something :lmao


I gave it up because it got confusing like that. 

"man that was great. ***1/2"
"wait, this ***1/4 match is better than it"
"and this other ***1/2 match is better than all of them"
"and this ***3/4 match isn't really as good"
"is the first ***1/2 match REALLY better than all of these ***1/4 matches?"

That exaggerating, but I got winded.  I probably had hundreds of ***1/2 matches at one point and I was like FUCK IT. I absolutely could not imagine giving ratings at this point. If I did I wouldn't bother with anything below ***. I'd just call each match under three stars "<***" or something. I do have fun looking through my old ratings, though. No matter how stupid some of my old opinions look to me now.  I gave Mark Henry v Booker T from Armageddon 2003 *3/4. Pfft. Jackass.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Thanks to WWEShop's very nice sale, just picked up both Blu-Rays for Extreme Rules 2011 & Over The Limit 2011 for just $9.58. I'm aware OTL was shit by the way, *just want it for the Orton/Christian match.*


Only reason I bought it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Yes they saved the match after Koslov almost killed it! lol The match started off hot with Jeff quickly eliminating Edge but the match dragged after that until Taker came in last.
> 
> Mysterio's performance in the Raw Elimination Chamber that night simply amazing. Maybe my favorite individual EC performance to date.


Seriously. It dragged pretty hard. It got a bit better when Taker came in like you said, but nothing major. It was the finish that really tied things together. Such a long match too. Second longest chamber iirc. I know it was nearly 36 minutes. Only behind the first which was nearly 40.

Mysterio killed it. (in a good way) Not surprising. I knew he had to excel in a match type like that. Much the same with Morrison when he got in there. But, Rey was on point. That Chamber is too good. I love all the aspects about it. The monsters coming in and dominating, then the general combo of Jericho & Rey taking them out. Cena getting booted out in only 2 minutes, SHOCKER! The awesome interaction with Edge. Great finish too. Seemed like Mysterio had a chance to pull it out. That dastardly Edge struck again.

***1/4 & ****. Got to use them starz for final analysis. 

Ether, I've found myself giving a brief contemplation with some matches under that method. Only matters with certain higher ranked matches though. Idk if a I can peg an example atm....oh I got one. MITB World Championship ladder match from this year. I give it ****, however it's a low four. I feel like ***3/4 is a bit underselling it despite it's 2 minor botches. (lets thank Sin Cara & Santino for that, big shock) I dig the match a lot and I was torn in-between both so I went with 4 due to my personal enjoyment. Although when I compare it to another **** match, like Jericho vs Mysterio from Judgment Day 2009, I'd say the edge goes to the one on one match being the overall stronger bout. That's about the best example I could give off the top o' me head.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Anybody who has got an opinion on ECW One Night Stand 2005? Was gonna finish watching it last night but after the Rey/Psicosis match, I fell asleep and woke up for one minute just to turn off the computer.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Speaking of REY .......
> 
> Most Overrated Mysterio Match : vs Eddie Guerrero (Wrestlemania XXI)
> 
> ...


Most overrated: vs Eddie WM21 (It may not get rated here but wwe.com putting it in Rey's top 10 matches is a fucking joke. It seems like it gets the 'classic' tag just for being in Wrestlemania. I've only watched the Judgment Day match from their feud and that one already blew this one out the water)

Most underrated: vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 07/04/06 (What can I say? It's like this match doesn't exist and I've only seen a few posters here give it its well deserved due. I slept on this match for too long and when I watched it, I didn't want it to end!)

Personal favorite: vs Orton - SD 06 / w/ Edge vs Benoit/Angle - No Mercy 02.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One Night Stand is AWESOME. Absolute blast of a PPV. You're gonna go ape for Awesome vs Tanaka. No way you can't. It's nuts. Don't expect much from Benoit vs Eddie though. It's an underwhelming bout for those two. It's still a GOAT PPV in terms of entertainment.

Is that Mysterio list WWE only or Overall? b/c if I had to pick my personal favorite of his then it would be vs Eddie at Halloween Havoc '97. If WWE only, then I'm going with vs Angle at Summerslam '02 or Jericho at The Bash.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I used to use star ratings, but after a while it just became too much of a hassle, probably moreso around the time of the WCW poll. It got to the point where I'd rank certain matches higher through personal favouratism or because I dug something in that match more than another match, even if the other match from a literal standpoint is better. Then I started thinking what the use of these ratings were if I was just gonna have some matches higher on the final ballot even though their initial rating was much lower.

Pretty much just write my thoughts about a match now and let that be the basis of my argument. I find it much easier to group matches into 'awesome', 'great' and 'very good' rather than having to consider the actual rating. Another problem I always had with ratings had to do with shorter matches: I could really love a 7 minute Evan Bourne/William Regal match but if I give it just below 3 stars people will most likely skip it because the rating isn't high enough regardless of the time factor, but then can I really give a 7 minute match close to 4 stars just to get more people to actually watch it?



Yeah1993 said:


> Christian/Swagger 2/24/09 *might* be my US MOTY ahead of Michaels/Taker.


I rewatched it a week or so ago after Sterling went ape for it and it not only held up but actually managed to be better since the last watch. Comfortably my US MOTY and I'd probably take it over anything in Lucha or Puro (FUTEN/BattlARTS I'm lacking in memory though) from the year as well. I'd actually forgotten how near enough every transition in the match comes from what you associate in each character: Christian gets the momentum through his knowledge and taking advantage of Swagger's rash approach and Swagger regains the momentum through his quicker agility and speed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> One Night Stand is AWESOME. Absolute blast of a PPV. You're gonna go ape for Awesome vs Tanaka. No way you can't. It's nuts. Don't expect much from Benoit vs Eddie though. It's an underwhelming bout for those two. It's still a GOAT PPV in terms of entertainment.


I've already seen Benoit/Eddie before. And yeah, it was pretty boring. Even the best of friends didn't like it and supposedly had "backstage heat" with each other afterward, lol.

The crowd has been awesome in the first hour, though. (and will be for the entire show) They always chant something. The random "Fuck John Cena" chant cracks me up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, those fans are jacked the entire event. It's a strong atmosphere. 

Jericho vs Storm, imo. Hell of a opener.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ONS 05 sucks. Yeah I said it. Hot crowd, shit matches. Fuck original ECW too while I'm at it.

Christian/Swagger II is definitely my #2 MOTY for 09 right behind Undertaker/HBK. I've been pimping the fuck out of it since it happened .


----------



## zaqw222222 (Aug 22, 2006)

Can anyone recommend me some good TV matches post wrestlemania??


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BOOOOOOOO

I still prefer it over 2006. Although that show had the ever fun 6 person tag match.

Christian vs Swagger is #3 for me right now. I still have Jericho vs Mysterio from The Bash over it and obviously Taker vs Michaels. I'll see where any of the Christian vs Regal matches land when I get to them in the ECW '09 stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not the biggest fan of Rey/Jericho. I'd have Bash (their best) behind Undertaker/HBK, Christian/Swagger I, II, III, Regal/Christian Nov, and maybe a couple more matches.

ONS 06 was pretty shitty too but had the 6 man that was way better than anything from ONS 05 AND anything I've seen from the original ECW (including Eddie/Malenko, which I still like but not as much).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm such a mark for The Bash match. Watched it so many times. I think I might have to rethink my 2009 list. Forgot about all of those other TV matches I praised a page or two back such as Punk vs Hardy Steel Cage & Morrison/Mysterio. I might have Christian/Swagger over the Morrison/Mysterio match, but probably not the cage.

I know people that don't like ECW. I understand your mindset. I find 2005 to be blast (which I said ^) Out of both shows I'd still take Awesome vs Tanaka over all the matches. I was a huge fan of their stuff in Japan/Original ECW so when they destroyed each other at ONS, I was a happy guy. Big Mike Awesome fan overall.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OOH. Most overrated Mysterio is the No Mercy 2002 tag. Underrated IDK about. It has to be something people have seen otherwise it's not 'underrated'. you can't rate something too low if you haven't seen it. Do people think the GAB Chavo and Judgment Day JBL matches are awesome? Because they are. Probably them.

Cal giving ECW no credit again. FUCKER. 




Segunda Caida said:


> I rewatched it a week or so ago after Sterling went ape for it and it not only held up but actually managed to be better since the last watch. Comfortably my US MOTY and I'd probably take it over anything in Lucha or Puro (FUTEN/BattlARTS I'm lacking in memory though) from the year as well. I'd actually forgotten how near enough every transition in the match comes from what you associate in each character: Christian gets the momentum through his knowledge and taking advantage of Swagger's rash approach and Swagger regains the momentum through his quicker agility and speed.


My favourite thing in the match might be Christian's bump off of the apron from Swagger's shoulder tackle. That honestly might be one of my favourite bumps of all time. I skipped to that spot like 6 times after it happened. I'm in no place to discuss 2009 MOTY since the majority's a blind-spot, but I don't think I'd have it above Ikeda/Ono v Suruga/Oba. That'd probably be my MOTY but there's a stupid amount of shit I want to see first.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mysterio vs JBL from Judgment Day '06. I tried. I tried to love it. I only classify it as "good". 

GAB '04 vs Chavo. Yeah. That's underrated. It's GREAT. ****. Most matches with Mysterio and Chavo are good. I watched a match of their's from SuperBrawl: Revenge (2001) and it was even a pretty darn good bout.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Underrated Rey Match: I dunno, maybe GAB 05. When the 05 series is talked about by anyone but those few ELITE people (see what I did there? LOLZ), JD and SD matches are mentioned. WM too but usually for different reasons. Even cage and ladder (ladder for how terrible the angle was at this point). But GAB gets forgotten about. And it shouldn't. Because its epic. One of those matches I could point to as a claim for Eddie being one of the GOAT wrestlers. Maybe I shouldn't be using this as an underrated Rey match because while Rey is in it and good, its EDDIE'S match. Maybe instead I should mention one of the Kane matches from THAT feud. You know. Burlap sack feud :lmao. Storyline was awful, but the matches were good, especially the one that ended with Kane murdering Rey with a chair off that big dive.

Overrated: I dunno again. Maybe the Jericho BASH match. Its good, really good, but not great and wouldn't make a dent in my MOTY list for 09 in all honesty. 

Favourite: Probably one of the Undertaker matches. Undertaker is unstoppable, Rey is small. Undertaker butchers Rey, Rey bumps like fuck. Super fun every time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^No Mercy '08. 

Kane vs Mysterio have DAT Chemistry, imo. Don't think they've had a match yet that I didn't enjoy.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> OOH. Most overrated Mysterio is the No Mercy 2002 tag. Underrated IDK about. It has to be something people have seen otherwise it's not 'underrated'. you can't rate something too low if you haven't seen it. Do people think the GAB Chavo and Judgment Day JBL matches are awesome? Because they are. Probably them.
> 
> Cal giving ECW no credit again. FUCKER.


I'd probably agree with both overrated/underrated pics. Pretty sure most will have seen Rey/Chavo but just forget about it when they bring up best cruiserweight/juniors matches in company history. It would probably be my #1 unless I really dug the Mysterio/Noble Velocity match more on another rewatch. You seen the Mysterio/Tajiri series from September 03-January 2004? Its pretty high end stuff cruiserweight wise in WWE. The first match and final match (1st Smackdown of 2004) are the standouts, but the No Mercy 03 match is a fine follow up to the Smackdown September match between the two.

I'm not a massive fan of a lot of ECW, but they definitely produced some really great brawls and multi-man tags which broke down into lunacy. I can take or leave the Taz/Sabu/Funk 1997 and beyond stuff but the likes of Scorpio, Mikey Whipwreck, Spike Dudley and Tajiri demonstrate there was a lot of talent in the promotion. Tajiri in 2000 is still one of the most overlooked years for a wrestler.




Yeah1993 said:


> My favourite thing in the match might be Christian's bump off of the apron from Swagger's shoulder tackle. That honestly might be one of my favourite bumps of all time. I skipped to that spot like 6 times after it happened. I'm in no place to discuss 2009 MOTY since the majority's a blind-spot, but I don't think I'd have it above Ikeda/Ono v Suruga/Oba. That'd probably be my MOTY but there's a stupid amount of shit I want to see first.


Oh man that was a hell of a bump and something I'd actually forgotten about. Quite a dangerous bump when you consider how fast Swagger went in and the landing Christian had to take. The finish is really perfect for me though, they really manage to have a series of counters which feel dramatic (largely because you fear Christian's arm will give out at any moment) and well timed before Swagger manages to steal the match just as Christian looks to have outsmarted the champion.

Is that tag the 4/26 one? I went through some of Lenny's matches on his site for FUTEN matches since Ditch is lacking and that's the only tag of theirs I could find. I know its an April tag but sure I've seen a tag of theirs pimped from early April and wasn't sure if there's more than one or someone got the date mixed up.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> I'd probably agree with both overrated/underrated pics. Pretty sure most will have seen Rey/Chavo but just forget about it when they bring up best cruiserweight/juniors matches in company history. It would probably be my #1 unless I really dug the Mysterio/Noble Velocity match more on another rewatch. You seen the Mysterio/Tajiri series from September 03-January 2004? Its pretty high end stuff cruiserweight wise in WWE. The first match and final match (1st Smackdown of 2004) are the standouts, but the No Mercy 03 match is a fine follow up to the Smackdown September match between the two.


Seen most of the Rey/Tajiris at this point. Watched No Mercy and 9/03 recently. I remember 1/1/04 being the best one and I'm watching that again soon. Well, at least before the year ends. 

Agreed on Rey/Chavo or Rey/Noble being the best WWE cruiser match.



Segunda Caida said:


> Is that tag the 4/26 one? I went through some of Lenny's matches on his site for FUTEN matches since Ditch is lacking and that's the only tag of theirs I could find. I know its an April tag but sure I've seen a tag of theirs pimped from early April and wasn't sure if there's more than one or someone got the date mixed up.


There's only one 2009 Futen show out there (Hell pre-2010 I think that and the debut 4/24/05 show are the only two available in it's history). April 9th/April 26th 2009. You get conflicting dates but it's the same show/match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rey/Hardy when Rey wins the title is awesome too.

Tajiri/Regal had some amazingly fun short matches in 01 during the Invasion. Not seen much of Tajiri in ECW but everything I have seen was fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mysterio vs Tajiri made Rey's Biggest Little Man set. So that makes the total of ****+ matches on it at an all time high for a single set. Maybe Eddie's can rival it, but I don't own it. </3


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Seen most of the Rey/Tajiris at this point. Watched No Mercy and 9/03 recently. I remember 1/1/04 being the best one and I'm watching that again soon. Well, at least before the year ends.
> 
> Agreed on Rey/Chavo or Rey/Noble being the best WWE cruiser match.
> 
> ...


Yeah its either the September or January match that will make my final ballot, but both are likely top 5 for cruiserweight matches in WWE.

(Y) Awesome. I figured it might be the same match since he also had 2 other matches from the same date and I know not a lot of FUTEN shows make it online.



KingCal said:


> Rey/Hardy when Rey wins the title is awesome too.
> 
> Tajiri/Regal had some amazingly fun short matches in 01 during the Invasion. Not seen much of Tajiri in ECW but everything I have seen was fun.


I actually forgot about that one, but that's definitely a very good match and again something that a lot probably overlook when discussing Rey's WWE career. Crowd is as hot for a cruiserweight match as I can remember and Hardy plays the champ trying to prevent the inevitable defeat very well. Rey is Rey.



Hailsabin said:


> Mysterio vs Tajiri made Rey's Biggest Little Man set. So that makes the total of ****+ matches on it at an all time high for a single set. Maybe Eddie's can rival it, but I don't own it. </3


I do believe the 36 disc Eddie Guerrero comp might possibly be the finest collection of matches/performances ever assembled. Though the 37 disk Terry Funk comp and 54 disc Toshiaki Kawada comp also have me salivating.

Can't wait to get around to ordering the Buddy Rose comp either, since all I've seen online is match after match from it being pimped to high fucking heaven.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm also a huge fan of the Rey/Hardy WM XIX match. Goes less than 5 minutes, but they manage to fit in everything. Babyface shine, Heel control, babyface comeback, high flying spots from Rey, a good story and Hardy getting in the cheap heel victory. One of those matches that is hard to rate because its so short, but its also pretty much perfect. I have it at ***3/4 which seems insane for a 4 minute match, but at the same time its just that good.

Rey's little biggest man is one of the best match for match sets wwe have released. Up there with Flair's Ultimate Collection (though its hard to compare the two because Rey's has so many matches while Flair's has the longer matches) and Tombstone.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah its either the September or January match that will make my final ballot, but both are likely top 5 for cruiserweight matches in WWE.
> 
> (Y) Awesome. I figured it might be the same match since he also had 2 other matches from the same date and I know not a lot of FUTEN shows make it online.


Screw online, none of them are on tape either.  I checked Fu-ten's official site and the date is 4/26/09, btw.




Segunda Caida said:


> I do believe the 36 disc Eddie Guerrero comp might possibly be the finest collection of matches/performances ever assembled. Though the 37 disk Terry Funk comp and 54 disc Toshiaki Kawada comp also have me salivating.


1996 Yearbook.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> I do believe the 36 disc Eddie Guerrero comp might possibly be the finest collection of matches/performances ever assembled. Though the 37 disk Terry Funk comp and 54 disc Toshiaki Kawada comp also have me salivating.
> 
> Can't wait to get around to ordering the Buddy Rose comp either, since all I've seen online is match after match from it being pimped to high fucking heaven.


Should have rephrased it meaning only WWE/mainstream promotion sets only. b/c when you throw out the custom sets with MUCH more content by plenty of amazing workers, then yeah. Mysterio's might fall behind despite being excellent, haha.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Biggest Little Man is probably the best WWE release ever for matches. In fact, yeah, it is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got it ranked at #1. I only paid 5 bucks for it too. Can you believe that? Rhetorical. Nobody can.

Also got Edge's Decade of Decadence & Bret Hart's 3 disc set for $5 too. STEALS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I picked up Austin's newest 4 disc set for £5. Got Piper's 3 disc set for £5 years ago, when it was rare sets like that actually went down in price by much .

Silvervision are having a black friday sale 2morrow... not sure really if there is anything I definitely want aside from RR and WM from this year on Bluray (that's even assuming those are on offer. Need em for my collection of having all RR and all WM... well, all WM from when they started getting released on DVD and then Bluray  ). Don't think I'm missing any superstar sets that I genuinely want.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just watched AE doc. What a trip it was watching all that crazy shit again lol. The one thing that sticks out to me more than anything though is the fact that they ALL know what made that era so special yet they very clearly won't employ the same things now. It's so fucking frustrating. They _know_ it was the characters, the storylines, the long story arcs, the investment in everybody from the top of the card to the bottom that worked but yet won't do anything about it. I honestly just don't understand that. If you have such an obvious solution to a problem staring you right in the face and you know that it works, why the hell would you ignore it for years and years? I don't get it.

Anyways, an alright doc but it could have been so much more. It was nice to go on a little trip down memory lane if nothing else.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What bugs me is that they know enhancing the roster from top to bottom is something they can do within the whole area of being TV PG. Yet, that's one of the aspects they still choose not to touch. I don't get that. If you can make your roster feel much more legit, credible, over, etc then why not do it? It can only be beneficial for the biz. Look at '99. Val Venis was working matches with Rock & beating Foley on a PPV. Or another, and probably more sustained credible comparison, would be to watch an old school RAW during that time and see how every single segment/match has its own legs behind it. A match with D-Lo Brown & X-Pac didn't need Stone Cold out there to make it matter. The Godfather was getting mega pops without the aid of a "star" like The Rock. Crash Holly didn't have to defend the Hardcore Championship again The Undertaker to make him relevant. 

To me, that's what REALLY defined the era more than stuff that PG negates. A roster filled with developed and credible talent. Not this 10 people used and 25 - 30 group of people floating around nonsense like now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty much what I said last night after watching the doc. They are sat there, TALKING ABOUT what made the shows so good then and how great business was... yet they don't seem to think they need to do it today because... I dunno, Vince is drain bamaged or something. Like I said last night, 2 hours of the new 3 hours Raws are absolutely pointless. Just filler. And I'm absolutely fucking SICK TO DEATH of the same matches. Del Rio Vs Orton. Ziggler Vs Orton. Sheamus Vs Del Rio. Sheamus Vs Otunga. Ryback Vs Tensai. Every fucking week we get one of those matches. And then they do half of them on fucking PPV too. NO. STOP IT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's about 100x more annoying when they always have the same result too. Orton beating Del Rio, AGAIN? Really? Del Rio can't even get a single chance to take the upper hand, oh ok. Lets have a shitty 8 minute 2 out of 3 falls match that probably won't settle anything. Real good.

While I didn't mind RAW this week, that was crap.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doesn't help that they essentially work the same fucking match too. Especially Del Rio/Orton matches. Target the arm. Walk into an RKO. Done.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haven't seen HIAC yet, but I don't think I've rated a single match past * yet. Ugh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't even bother watching Del Rio matches any more. Don't see the point in sitting through 10 minutes of useless arm work for him to walk into a finisher. Urgh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck Del Rio. If it wasn't for Punk he wouldn't have a single WWE match over *** 1/2 stars IMO. Same goes with Miz (besides the AWESOME Bryan match that was *** 3/4 and the Morrison FCA, those matches rule). They join a list of various other in-ring bland scrubs that WWE has to offer today that include Cody Rhodes, Brodus Clay, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Ryback, Sin Cara, Wade Barrett, Ted Dibiase JR. and WAYYYY more that I can't think of. 

Of ALL the guys I've listed, they have about 1 **** SINGLES match between them (Punk-Del Rio SS 11).


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Del Rio Vs Christian ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Del Rio wasn't even THAT good if you ask me. About ***1/4. I've seen Del Rio mesh better with Danielson in a match on Smackdown following Summerslam. That & his matches with Edge at WrestleMania, Christian, & Cena at Vengeance were his top matches within the company.

I like Miz, Dibiase Jr, & Barrett. Big Cody Rhodes fan. Rest listed do suck. Clay could be a solid monster. You know, if his gimmick wasn't so bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not a fan of Punk/Del Rio either tbh. *** max for me. Del Rio's matches with Christian were far better. Don't think much at all to the Edge match. Cena LMS was super fun though.

I like Cody. Guy even had an interesting gimmick for a while too... then they just stopped. Thanks WWE. Rest are all dull as fuck or just plain shitty. That said, Miz's top 2 matches are all pretty good. Danielson from that PPV, and Lawler TLC on Raw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

match vs Edge was pretty strong I thought. Liked the play on Christian & Clay at ringside mixed with some good work done inside the ring. Edge busted out some old school offense too. Almost felt like he knew that might have been his final match.

KC, you were into the TLC match with Miz & Lawler? That one didn't do anything for me. I loved their match at Elimination Chamber though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Loved their TLC match, didn't think much to their EC match lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Complete 180 here~!

I own the TLC on DVD. Maybe I'll take another watch today for the hell of it. Been meaning to watch that entire RAW for snowflakes anyways. Plus, I want to watch Elimination Chamber 2011 again too since I loved the hell out of that show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't like EC 2011 much at all. Other than Drew McIntyre looking like a fucking beast. And Christian's return, though how fucking disappointing was it when the EC match needed a new wrestler because someone was injured or something... and instead of Christian returning there, he just makes the save for Edge after the match and we get Big Show (who wasn't exactly exciting me at the time, though I am usually a fan).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My problem with Miz in the ring is his character vs who he REALLY should be portraying. His control portions in matches are just so horrible, and they almost ALWAYS have him controlling the pace of the match. A Miz-Henry match now would be fucking AWESOME and probably Miz's best match. Just like heel Mark Henry vs a Face ANYBODY is an awesome match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both of the chambers delivered for me. Loved Miz/Lawler, crowd was HOT for the opener despite me only thinking it was above average and the tag titles was, well at least the best Slater/Gabriel vs Santino/Koslov match that made a PPV. It gets a (Y) from me.

But yeah, I would have much rather seen Christian make his way into the Chamber instead of only returning.

EDIT ~ Implying you think Miz is bound to be a face much like he finally is now?


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Hey guys
Just rewatched Michaels/mysterio (november 2005, eddy's show) and Michaels/mysterio (January 2010 last smackdown before Royal Rumble)

Damn. I.Love.These.Matches. It's a shame there are only 2 matches (if there are more please tell me)
I love how HBK sells the 619. Priceless. 
HBK make Rey looks like a fucking star (he is, but still!). 
What do you think of these?

By the way that awesome episode of smackdown starts with Cm punk/HHH and it's a fucking good match too. Is it the first betwwen the 2? Is the second one NOC 2011?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

the frenchise said:


> Hey guys
> Just rewatched Michaels/mysterio (november 2005, eddy's show) and Michaels/mysterio (January 2010 last smackdown before Royal Rumble)
> 
> Damn. I.Love.These.Matches. It's a shame there are only 2 matches (if there are more please tell me)
> ...


Yeah, that was the first Punk vs Triple H match. Second was indeed @ Night of Champions 2011.

I liked the Eddie Tribute match. I'm a tad more partial to the Smackdown one. Wished I owned that one on DVD. Guess it doesn't mater if it is on youtube or dailymotion. Strong matches imo, at least. Your's too it seems.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The SD with HHH/Punk and HBK/Rey also had another solid match:

*Triple H Vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 29/01/2010*

They go back and forth in the beginning, with HHH doing a little better than Punk, until the SES on the outside are enough to distract the Game for Punk to take control.

This turns out ot be a pretty good competitive match between the two men. Punk gets some awesome looking kicks in on HHH, and HHH does a great job of being the babyface while also living up to the name of cerebral assassin. Things get even better towards the end, shame it had to end in a DQ, but the SES did a nice job on the outside saving Punk on a couple of occasions.

I think this may have been a little better than what I remembered it, but I don't remember exactly what I thought of it back when i first saw it .

Aftermath is cool too, with Punk elbowing the fuck out of HHH to try and shave his head before HBK comes out for the save, and teases superkicking Serena.

*Rating: ****


*Drew McIntyre Vs John Morrison - WWE Smackdown 29/01/2010*

This one is No DQ or No Holds Barred or something like that. Basically to prevent Drew from getting himself DQ'd or positioning Morrison to get DQ'd.

Hey, a decent match! About time they had one . Drew controlling a lot of the match and beating the shit out of Morrison is the main highlight (not because I hate Morrison, but because Drew being a vicious bastard is pretty great to watch), and Morrison's offence, like Mysterio's, is great when it comes to hope spots and comebacks.

DDT on the IC belt is awesome, but the pin is about as gay as it gets in a "sport" where two guys half naked touch each other.

Really enjoyed this one, and was a nice end (I hope its the end anyway lol) to their feud over the IC title. Plenty of HATE~!, some nice little spots, and a good finish (with a gay pin. GAY~!).

*Rating: ****


*Rey Mysterio Vs Shawn Michaels - WWE Smackdown 29/01/2010*

Man, can this show get any more awesome? HHH/Punk, Drew/JoMo and now THIS? 

I still remember seeing this SD for the first time, and how excited I was for it. Firstly, its HBK Vs Mysterio, and the second time its ever happened. Secondly, its Undertaker's RR opponent Vs Undertaker's WM opponent, and for some reason that interests me even more than it simply being Rey vs Shawn lol.

Poor little Rey ends up getting a red chest early on thanks to Shawn chopping the shit out of it lol. Really awesome sequence just before the first commercial break with both guys teasing their finishers and then both ending up on the floor. Aside from Rey getting the worse end of some chops, its all been even so far, so it was a nice way to go to commercial break as both guys are babyfaces after all.

Really weird to see Rey controlling a match and going after a body part (Shawn's leg). Hell, I find it weird to see either of these men actually controlling a match these days since they are uber babyfaces, and both are way better at doing hope spots and comebacks than anything else. That being said, there sure as hell isn't anything even close to being bad in the match. Rey does a pretty good job for the short time he has control, and Shawn does even better. Nice to see him get a little revenge on Rey by injuring his leg and going after it, and that modified figure four type move looked AWESOME.

Finishing stretch, as you would expect with these two guys, is really fun, and of course seeing the springboard into a superkick is always awesome. Match ends with Batista spearing HBK.

Match is... well, not as good as I first thought . Was definitely my TV MOTY at the time, and thinking about it, I don't recall anything else happening on TV that I would have rated the same as this, so technically it was still my TV MOTY until now lol (gave it ***3/4 first time around). However, watching it again, I saw the match to be nothing THAT special. It was two babyfaces having a match without a feud or a story, trading control segments and then going into a big finishing stretch. It was good, it was fun to watch, but it was missing something big that would have helped make it a great match.

*Rating: ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

a GAY pin?! :lol

you recall their very first singles match they had about 10 days or so prior to TLC 2009? It sticks out as their overall best for me. Recall a brutal spot when Drew has some metal bars underneath the ring exposed and he drives Morrison's face directly into them via grabbing tights + pulling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, gay pin. There is a picture or a gif floating around of it but I cba to find it .

I don't remember any of their matches specifically before that one, I just know I really didn't like most of them. And then they just kept having them. Over and over and over again. And none of them were particularly good, with some really bad ones thrown in too lol.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Wow extremely quick answers. thanks guys.

Absolutely loved the modified figure 4 too! My favorite moment must be when rey counters the SCM with a Spinning wheel kick!! I was totally expecting a dodge or something, and bam kick in the face (Michaels sells that better than ziggler) and he is in 619 position. Perfect. 

The 2005 match was a hell more quicker but i was less involved in it i guess ( i prefered the 2010 one)


I have to check that No dq match, totally forgot it was on the same show. From that show i remember a jericho/r truth 5 minutes match not really interesting but with a good reversal to the Walls( not the usual one with jericho being ejeceted by the ultrastrenght of the legs!!)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, didn't know Triple H & Punk had a one on one match before NoC.

And when I'm finished with watching all the WWE years I'm planning to (1997-WM25), where should I go next? I've been thinking about Nitro from 96-00 and as much of the original ECW as possible (93-until the end). After that, I think I'll also check out some TNA stuff from the past (I really need to start following it for something present since I'm in no rush to ever watch another present day Raw or Smackdown). By the time I'm there, it'll probably be the summer of 2014, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

But C2D , are you trying to tell me you wouldn't wanna relive the summer of punk and subsequent 365 plus reign of one of the greatest of all time (in your opinion  ) in CM Punk ? unk2 I am SHOCKED. In all honesty though, your opinion of Punk's "pipe-bomb" worked shoot and subsequent MITB match against Cena ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Watch early 90s WCW. Great wrestling from some of the best in-ring talent ever - Steamboat, Rude, Vader, Rhodes (that would be Dustin), Eaton, Austin, etc. So many quality matches. Cal or I can post a list of the best stuff (from the WCW poll) if you want. The Dangerous Alliance was killing it in '92.


----------



## leon79 (Jun 12, 2006)

Any verdict on The Attitude Era DVD?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

leon79 said:


> Any verdict on The Attitude Era DVD?


Documentary is fun but short (about 57 minutes).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> But C2D , are you trying to tell me you wouldn't wanna relive the summer of punk and subsequent 365 plus reign of one of the greatest of all time (in your opinion  ) in CM Punk ? unk2 I am SHOCKED. In all honesty though, your opinion of Punk's "pipe-bomb" worked shoot and subsequent MITB match against Cena ?


I've already seen that, though. (not the title reign but I willingly skip Raw/SD nowadays and have for like 6 months now) This little 'project' I got going on is me going through stuff that I missed out on when they took place originally.

As for my take on the Summer of Punk. Even though I don't like the guy, he was on a roll during that one month and I give him that. The shoot promo was awesome, the contract signing was awesome save for his comments about "Dwayne" being a phony, the segments before MITB were great and MITB itself is a memorable PPV. And yes, the Cena/Punk match that night is also amazing. I don't have it at 5* as I originally did since a rewatch wasn't as great but I'm not gonna downrate it just because it's Punk or whatever. But the fact it is the root of Punk's snoozefest of a run in the past year makes the experience not as pleasant whenever I'll watch the match in the future. The summer itself got boring and just a disappointment once Kevin "ATV" Nash got involved, though. From then on, I started caring less and less about Punk, much like I did before that summer.

*@Clique:* I'll think about that too but I'm mainly thinking about Nitro during the NWO/cruiserweights era. I also wanna go through Benoit's entire career and later do a huge top 100 matches list on him, so therefore Nitro 96-00 first makes sense. (will start off by doing a top 50 for his WWE run but I'll expand since I'm the ultimate Benoit mark in here!)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Cool. These are the Benoit matches that were nominated for the WCW poll:


=#286 Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 20/10/1997 (1 point)

=#278 Hulk Hogan/Kevn Nash/Scott Steiner Vs Ric Flair/Chris Benoit/Mongo - Nitro 25/01/1999 (3 points)

=#266 Beef Wellington and Chris Benoit Vs Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992 (7 points)

=#266 Chris Benoit Vs Eddy Guerrero - Nitro 23/12/1996 (7 points)

=#253 Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko Vs Perry Saturn & Raven – Spring Stampede 11/04/1999 (11 points)

=#251 Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko Vs Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio Nitro - 29/03/1999 (12 points)

=#245 Chris Benoit Vs Booker T - Spring Stampede 19/04/1998 (14 points)

=#237 Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Nitro 15/06/1998 (16 points)

=#214 Chris Benoit Vs Brad Armstrong - Clash of the Champions XXII 13/01/1993 (29 points)

=#200 Chris Benoit Vs Kevin Sullivan - Bash at the Beach 13/07/1997 (36 points)

=#196 Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Nitro 30/12/1996 (38 points)

=#193 Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko Vs Raven & Saturn Vs The Filthy Animals - Slamboree 09/05/1999 (40 points)

#179 Sid Vicious Vs Chris Benoit - Souled Out 16/01/2000 (48 points)

=#176 Chris Benoit Vs Mike Enos - Souled Out 17/01/1999 (50 points)

=#169 Dean Malenko Vs Chris Benoit - Hog Wild 16/08/1996 (54 points)

=#166 Meng Vs Chris Benoit – Slamboree 18/05/1997 (57 points)

=#148 Chris Benoit Vs Jeff Jarrett - Starrcade 19/12/1999 (70 points)

=#142 Sting Vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 20/09/1999 (76 points)

#125 Chris Benoit Vs Jeff Jarrett - Mayhem 21/11/1999 (99 points)

=#124 Raven Vs Chris Benoit - Souled Out 24/01/1998 (101 points)

=#110 Raven Vs Chris Benoit Vs Diamond Dallas Page - Uncensored 15/03/1998 (124 points)

#101 Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - Saturday Night 18/11/1995 (142 points)

#88 Chris Benoit Vs 2 Cold Scorpio - Superbrawl III 21/02/1993 (173 points)

#86 Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996 (192 points)

=#78 Chris Benoit Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 04/10/1999 (214 points, One top 15 vote)

#68 Chris Benoit Vs Diamond Dallas Page - SuperBrawl 22/02/1998 (250 points)

#44 Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 16/10/1995 (409 points)

#43 Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Slamboree 17/05/1998 (427 points)

#39 Chris Benoit Vs Kevin Sullivan - Great American Bash 16/06/1996 (443 points, Two top 20 votes)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah *Choke2Death* , I'd say you're this forum's biggest Benoit mark. When it comes to markdom , I'd consider myself to share the title of biggest Trips/Brock mark with my boy *Starbuck* while Taker's biggest mark would perhaps be *Cal*. (actually I'd consider myself to be one of the biggest Punk marks here as well)

Pretty sure there was a rant thread about this once but I'd like to get your thoughts on who the biggest marks are for each superstar, just fun to think about :hhh


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Cool. These are the Benoit matches that were nominated for the WCW poll:


Pretty interesting list. Seen some of these matches and they were all worth the hype, specially the match with Bret.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Yeah *Choke2Death* , I'd say you're this forum's biggest Benoit mark. When it comes to markdom , I'd consider myself to share the title of biggest Trips/Brock mark with my boy *Starbuck* while Taker's biggest mark would perhaps be *Cal*. (actually I'd consider myself to be one of the biggest Punk marks here as well)
> 
> Pretty sure there was a rant thread about this once but I'd like to get your thoughts on who the biggest marks are for each superstar, just fun to think about :hhh


I'm really not sure. HHH (you + Starbuck) and Taker (Cal, Clique) are the only ones who have a number of big marks in here. There are some obvious ones like Rock316AE with The Rock but I can't really tell most of the time. And in this thread, you are definitely the biggest Punk mark even though it took me a while to realize since I've rarely come across anyone who's two favorites are Trips AND Punk. Usually, it's one or the other.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm the biggest Sandow mark!

Right... right?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, Pryo is .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

People were talking down Punk/Del Rio from last year, yeah, I agree. It's good stuff but I saw people call it a close-to-classic which I don't get. My favourite De Rio matches are probably the ones with Mysterio.

I CLAIM BIGGEST MYSTERIO MARK!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm probably gayer for Mick Foley more than anyone here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Yeah* is this thread's biggest Ryback ANTI-mark , with EVERYBODY else coming in at a close second :vince


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Marty Vibe said:


> I'm probably gayer for Mick Foley more than anyone here.


Craig would disagree. Though he doesn't post much any more . Well, not here anyway.

I don't know if I'm the biggest Chavo Guerrero Jr hater, but dammit I want him to get the fuck out of wrestling 20 years ago.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

What are you guys' ratings for the Punk/Mysterio series? Namely their 2010 feud?

I thought the WM was way too short, Extreme Rules I honestly don't recall much, but I really liked their OTL match.

I do recall enjoying the Armageddon 08 match, but haven't seen it in awhile.

Only thing I didn't like about the OTL match was the stoppage for blood, but Punk played it pretty well I thought looking legit pissed about it, which i'm sure he was, and followed it up by throwing Rey into the barricade a couple times and then giving him the snap suplex on the floor.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not anti-Ryback at all!

*ECW One Night Stand 2005:*

Lance Storm vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2
- A pretty good wrestling contest to start this night off. This is something you will barely see for the rest of the night since ECW was more about destruction than mat-wrestling but these guys do just fine in representing the latter here.

Super Crazy vs Tajiri vs Little Guido - ***
- A very short contest between three great cruiserweights. Other than that awesome moonsault from the balcony, I've already forgotten the rest of this match, though.

Rey Mysterio vs Psicosis - ***1/4
- A nice and short fast paced battle between two other cruiserweights. I was sleepy when watching it last night, so I don't have much else to add other than mentioning that perfectly executed hurricanrana that led to the final pin.

Sabu vs Rhyno - ***
- I'm a sucker for matches that rely heavily on spots and this one is just that. Nothing huge but it's Sabu so you can expect him to jump around the ring with steel chairs and going through tables. This also carries on the tradition of short matches throughout the PPV so far.

Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero - ***
- Very underwhelming, I must say. Although that might just be because of my expectations for a match involving two of the greatest wrestlers ever (and in Benoit's case, THE greatest IMO). The speed never picks up and it looks like both men are having an off day here.

Mike Awesome vs Tanaka - ***3/4
- This is nothing more than a spot-fest but I don't know about others, I absolutely love it! So many memorable spots and the crowd is at its best here which says a lot since there's never a silent minute for them. That powerbomb to the table outside the ring had one of the most awkward landings I've seen but these ECW guys are very reckless and no matter what bumps they take, they always continue! Worth noting is the disturbing comments from Joey Styles when Mike Awesome does a suicide dive.

The Dudley Boyz vs Tommy Dreamer/The Sandman - ***1/4
- Match is truly a mess. First it starts off with a bunch of ECW originals interfering then when it gets going, it's all over the place with even more interference, a variety of weapons being used everywhere and an impressive finish with the Dudleyz putting Dreamer through a flaming table. But so what? This is extremely entertaining and a good main event!

*Overall:* ***1/2 out of ***** (Extremely enjoyable PPV without a single bad match. Just exciting whole way through with an awesome crowd and many memorable moments. Even the segments are awesome from Heyman shooting on the crusaders to Stone Cold's surprise appearance in the end to RVD cutting a real promo where he tells the truth about being given no storylines and having a vocabulary beyond "cool" and "whatever". It's also funny how Kurt Angle is booed here yet they cheer him the next year against Randy Orton. I also can't omit the "Fuck you Smackdown" chants which made me chuckle. Just an overall great night. Lastly, great commentary from Foley and Styles.)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit and Guerrero have an excellent match on a July SmackDown to make up for the underwhelming PPV match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fun little game for the hell of it- rank the top 15 wrestlers who have been WWE/WHC Champion. Not by reigns, but by overall careers.

1. Ric Flair
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Eddie Guerrero
4. Chris Benoit
5. Randy Savage
6. Steve Austin
7. Bob Backlund
8. Bret Hart
9. Bryan Danielson
10. Sgt. Slaughter
11. Mick Foley
12. Shawn Michaels
13. The Undertaker
14. Christian
15. John Cena

Hart and Danielson feel kinda low but I didn't want to change it. I don't think there's more than a miniscule gap between them and Austin/Backlund. The whole 6-9 could be messed around. Foley/Slaughter and Christian/Cena feel very interchangeable. I was going to do a top 20 but 17-20 were really, really, really hard to think about. I'm pretty sure #16 would be CM Punk. 17-20 could be filled with Henry, Andre, Orton, the Rock, the Big Show or Jericho but the order got my head hurting. Overall it's the kind of list that could fluctuate a hell of a lot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Shoot, I'll play along with this ;

1. Ric Flair
2. Bret Hart
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Steve Austin
5. Triple H
6. The Undertaker
7. Randy Savage
8. Chris Benoit
9. Rey Mysterio
10. Eddie Guerrero
11. CM Punk
12. John Cena
13. Mick Foley
14. Bob Backlund
15. Chris Jericho

SUCH a fucking hard list to make for me... That was completely off the top of my head and I didn't read a whole lot into it so forgive me if it's REALLY shitty. I'm also probably the only person in history who believes that CM Punk will be top 5 once everything's said and done. If he's my WOTY AGAIN in 2013 as he has been in 2011 and 2012 he'll fall just Under Taker (get it? unk2 )


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I've always been really partial towards Christian. He had two amazing runs imo, 2005 in terms of character progression (from CLB to CC) and 2009 in terms of ring ability.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> I'm also probably the only person in history who believes that CM Punk will be top 5 once everything's said and done. If he's my WOTY AGAIN in 2013 as he has been in 2011 and 2012 he'll fall just Under Taker (get it? unk2 )









Seriously, my top 15... can't say I'm as knowledgeable in rassling as many of you fine folks, but here I go (Note: Not sure if you meant to go based on wrestling specifically through their whole career or their whole body of work combined with their popularity/storylines/relevance, but I'll do two lists, first one with the latter focus, second with former):

1) Hulk Hogan
2) Austin
3) Rock
4) Undertaker
5) Ric Flair
6) HBK
7) HHH
8) Cena
9) Bret Hart
10) Macho Man Randy Savage
11) Mick Foley
12) Batista
13) Edge
14) Orton
15) Lesnar

(Top 15 for wrestling/match quality entertainment-based focus):

1) Bret Hart
2) Chris Benoit
3) Ric Flair
4) HBK
5) Undertaker
6) Austin
7) Chris Jericho
8) Rey Mysterio
9) CM Punk
10) Daniel Bryan
11) Randy Savage
12) Eddie Guerrero
13) Kurt Angle
14) HHH
15) Randy Orton

Off the top of my head for the most part.


----------



## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

The new AE DVD was kinda disappointing. It felt like they missed alot. I understand it's hard to cram it all into one DVD but the DX part was like 25% of the movie while Austin and Rock were briefly introduced. Undertaker and Kane weren't talked about at *all*. 

The DX part was literally talked about for the whole first half of the movie while massive points in the AE weren't brought up at all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Sandrone said:


> Seriously, my top 15... can't say I'm as knowledgeable in rassling as many of you fine folks, but here I go (Note: Not sure if you meant to go based on wrestling specifically through their whole career or their whole body of work combined with their popularity/storylines/relevance, but I'll do two lists, first one with the latter focus, second with former):


I meant matches/in-ring/'working', yeah. I'm a wrestling nerd - NOTHING ELSE MEANS ANYTHING.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Black-Friday-Cyber-Monday-Sale/page1.html well this was disappointing . Only 8 things in the sale, and no more getting added apparently lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh man giving people titles of biggest marks for wrestlers? And my top 3 favorites of all time were taken? I call this an outrage.

I'll guess I'll take being known as the biggest El Generico & Jushin Liger mark of this thread even though neither are discussed. 8*D

Good to see you enjoyed ONS '05, C2D. You even enjoyed some matches more than I did. Mainly Mysterio vs Psicosis which I thought was a tad disappointing with the first half of the match being worked wrong.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I spat my drink out over my keyboard when Mark Henry told the story when he asked Vince why Mae Young was giving birth to a hand. 

"Why a hand?" Vince then said "Because it's a hand" then started to laugh. 

I have this image in my head of Vince coming up close to his face with a mad look on his face and saying that. Vince and his family are fucking mad people.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I received my copy of the CM Punk DVD today and I watched the documentary part right now. I know I'm a bit late to the party but it was fantastic. Won't go into much detail as everything has been said but it was just a really well made documentary for one, but also just a great story. I liked how they went into personal things and really went into exactly how Punk feels about everything. They got some great people in to do interviews as well with his close friends and some of the company guys. 

I really loved how they went backstage with things that they said and they talked about things that aren't normally talked about. I liked that not just because 'OMG INSIDER' but because that stuff needs to be there to give that extra dimension to everything that's happened with Punk's career in the last few years.

The only thing I could say against it is that they don't go past him winning the WWE title at MITB. But I think in the story they were telling with Punk trying to claw his way to the top, him finally making it to the peak of the WWE was the right place to end it.

Anyway, it was great, I had read a lot about it and it met my expectations and went a little beyond. It also surprised me here and there, most notably would be just how pissed off he was with the WWE last year. That was really surprising for me. I look forward to watching the extras and the matches as well.

Sorry for the double post but I really enjoyed One Night Stand 2005 as well. I thought it was a great show with a bunch of good matches. Now I've seen a number of Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka matches but I've always felt that their ONS match is my favourite. It's possible that it's because it may have been the first match I saw between them but I'm not sure if that's true. I feel like I saw another match of theirs before it.

The 2006 show was good too, though not quite as fun IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 15 in no order: (I'm not gonna include Hart, Flair or anyone else pre-AE because I'm not familiar enough)

Chris Benoit
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
Triple H
Undertaker
Randy Orton
The Rock
Mick Foley
John Cena
Eddie Guerrero
Rey Mysterio
Edge
Kurt Angle
Chris Jericho
Brock Lesnar


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*WWE : Best PPV Matches of 2012*

DISC 1

A Remarkable Year

WWE Championship Match 
CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler
Special Guest Referee: John Laurinaitis
Royal Rumble • January 29, 2012

Elimination Chamber Match for the World Heavyweight Championship 
Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Santino Marella vs. Wade Barrett vs. Cody Rhodes
Elimination Chamber • February 19, 2012

One Man, One Legend, One Streak

End of an Era Hell in a Cell Match 
Triple H vs. Undertaker
Special Guest Referee: Shawn Michaels
WrestleMania XXVIII • April 1, 2012

DISC 2


Hometown Return

Once in a Lifetime 
The Rock vs. John Cena
WrestleMania XXVIII • April 1, 2012

Divas Championship Match 
Layla vs. Beth Phoenix
Over the Limit • May 20, 2012

Intercontinental Championship Match 
Christian vs. Cody Rhodes
No Way Out • June 17, 2012

Complicated Situations

No Disqualification Match for the WWE Championship 
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan
Special Guest Referee: AJ
Money in the Bank • July 15, 2012

DISC 3

Colossal Collision

The Perfect Storm 
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
SummerSlam • August 19, 2012

Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler
Night of Champions • September 16, 2012

WWE Championship Match 
CM Punk vs. John Cena
Night of Champions • September 16, 2012

World Heavyweight Championship Match
Sheamus vs. Big Show
Hell in a Cell • October 28, 2012

A Sizzling Year

BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES


Ambulance Match 
John Cena vs. Kane
Elimination Chamber • February 19, 2012

2 out of 3 Falls Match for the World Heavyweight Championship 
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan
Extreme Rules • April 29, 2012

SmackDown Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Tensai vs. Santino Marella vs. Damien Sandow vs. Tyson Kidd vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Sin Cara
Money in the Bank • July 15, 2012

WWE Championship Hell in a Cell Match 
CM Punk vs. Ryback
Hell in a Cell • October 28, 2012

THREE matches on a best of DVD that are ***** 1/4* , SIGN ME UP! ....... Seriously, Rock vs Cena , Christian vs Rhodes , a DIVAS match ? GTFO here whoever comes up with there match listings, honestly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show/Sheamus, Punk/Bryan, HHH/Lesnar, Sheamus/Bryan and Punk/Cena in HD make it a "will buy eventually if its on offer at some point".


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Why no Cena/Lesnar and Punk/Bryan at over the limit?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Both were released on other sets this year (Lesnar and Punk).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

RevolverSnake said:


> Why no Cena/Lesnar and Punk/Bryan at over the limit?


If they were on it this would be a definite buy for me. 

Disappointed at the SV sale tbh. Was expecting more. Meh.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Fair enough. But I think especially those two matches deserve a spot on the DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah they definitely deserved to be there, especially over shit like Rock/Cena, a divas match, the EC match etc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished Smackdown 16/6/05. Benoit/Doug Basham had a nice little match in the opener and I marked out for Taker saving Benoit from the assault, OJ/Holly was decent and JBL/Taker no DQ was awesome!

Now I'm going to make my way to 23/6 to see Eddie/Rey. Then it's on to Vengeance! :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Perfect Storm*

" :brock *VS* :hhh "

JIIIIIIIIIIIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. I'm probably the biggest fan of this match in the whole entire universe at ***** 1/2* , but Brock's new MMA style is so awesome that if he and Taker announce a match for Wrestlemania XXIX you might as well just pencil it in as the MOTY because it's probably one of the only streak matches left that can pass all of the others (besides the HBK series of course , but you never ever know).

Still though, I LOVE how they have a title for the Trips-Lesnar match , makes it seem like so much more of a bigger deal. "Once in a Lifetime" sounds meh , and seeing the match being marketed as once in a lifetime got me thinking more and more that we're not getting Rock-Cena II. If we WERE, WWE probably would have had this plan in advance and PROBABLY would have waited to release the Rock-Cena DVD. God I hope


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Shoot, I'll play along with this ;
> SUCH a fucking hard list to make for me... That was completely off the top of my head and I didn't read a whole lot into it so forgive me if it's REALLY shitty. *I'm also probably the only person in history who believes that CM Punk will be top 5 once everything's said and done. If he's my WOTY AGAIN in 2013 as he has been in 2011 and 2012 he'll fall just Under Taker (get it? unk2 )*


You're not the only one. Punk marks stand together. unk

I call Danielson mark....he's the wrestler who got me into independent wrestling and caused me to stop just watching WWE in the late 1990's and 2000's. I wouldn't have gotten into japaneese, memphis, territories, etc. if I didn't become a massive danielson mark by watching him in ROH and then expanding into all types of wrestling. 

DAT 05/06 TITLE REIGN


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

What I'm wondering is would Taker V Punk live up to the past 6 WM Taker matches?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, they had a TV match in 2010 that was DAMN GOOD, so I'd have faith in a WM match between the two ended up in the **** range.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well I'm gonna put it like this ; Just based off of who would be involved in the match coupled with Taker's insane Mania efforts it would be atleast ****** right off the bat. Now, when you take in consideration Punk's in-ring talent and put it up against Taker's last six Mania opponents , here's the chart I seem to have ;

2011-2012 Punk > Tail End of Career HBK > 2011-2012 HHH > 2008 Edge > 2007 Batista

Yeah, so I believe Punk's run over the last 2 years is better than HBK's last two years in the WWE. If we get a 500 Day WWE Championship Reign vs The Streak storyline to couple with it, we're talking about a potential MOTD and ******* classic here to define Punk's place as a top 10 ALL-TIME WWE Superstar (in terms of in-ring) , while moving Taker closer to "GOAT" status.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Been watching a lot of Foley recently, my god I love that man. Can't wait for his set next year should be epic

Always forget just how much I love the Foley/HHH street fight from Royal Rumble, ***** for me and Foleys best match.
A few star ratings for his bigger matches 

vs Taker KOTR 1998 ****3/4
vs Rock Royal Rumble 1999 ****1/2
vs HHH No Way Out 2000 ****
vs Orton Backlash 2004 ****1/2 (this match for me made Orton)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As big of a Lesnar mark i may be, i too would like 'Taker to face Punk, or (may sound stupid), for him to face a 'smaller guy', dunno why, maybe to try and replioate the greatness of the HBK series.

Although just seeing Taker wrestle again will be enough for me, despite his opponont.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't think Taker/Punk will outdo my two favorite matches ever (the two bouts with Michaels), but that wouldn't be fair to expect that level for any of Taker's matches at this point. I know for sure Taker will do everything in his ability to make the match 'epic' and work the crowd into a frenzy like he does every year. Punk knows how big of a match this is and I think he would bring his great character work and psychology to the match to make it special too. I think Taker/Punk could potentially reach Edge/Taker level which I felt was a classic in its own right. I think it would be refreshing to see Taker work with Punk after the hardcore wars he had with Triple H.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Phil_Mc_90 said:


> Been watching a lot of Foley recently, my god I love that man. Can't wait for his set next year should be epic
> 
> Always forget just how much I love the Foley/HHH street fight from Royal Rumble, ***** for me and Foleys best match.
> A few star ratings for his bigger matches
> ...


Fucking RIGHTS. Anybody who's legacy consists of putting off great match after great match and giving it their everything physically, mentally and politically (putting EVERYBODY over) deserves to be mentioned as one of the greatest of all time. It's a sad scenario, but I don't think Foley gets as much credit as he deserves because of his tendency to put over younger guys , thus making himself look (kayfabe) weak, atleast in the eyes of the causal fan.

vs Trips RR 00 : ******* (6th greatest match ever)
vs Rock RR 99 : ***** 1/4*
vs Taker KOTR 98 : ***** 1/4*
vs Trips NWO 00 : ***** 1/2*
vs Orton BL 04 : ***** 1/4*

List of guys Foley help MAKE ; HHH, Edge, Randy Orton, The Rock, Steve Austin, Kane, Big Show, and a whole HOST of other big names. Dude is a straight up BO$$ and easily top 3 on the mic for me as well, up there with Flair and Piper.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/Punk will suck because I'll never buy Punk as a threat to the streak. Never. Brock/Taker for Mania 29 or GTFO plz. Taker/Cena for 30. Think I'm going to wait until after Xmas and go crazy buying some blu-rays. Think I might pick up the Best Of PPV sets for 10 and 11. I'd like to get Rock's doc but I'm not paying that much money for it. Can't really think of anything else I want atm. I do intend to spend though. Just need to decide what to buy lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm not concerned with the predictability of the finish with Taker/Punk as long as they produce a great match (ala Taker/Edge). I'll take Brock/Taker too and enjoy it for the match they produce even though I know Brock won't win either. 

DVDs I want to eventually pick - Punk, ECW Unreleased, and Extreme Rules '12. 

I'm on the fence with the Best PPV Matches '12 set. Might get when it is really cheap. Same with the '11 edition.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Taker/Punk will suck because I'll never buy Punk as a threat to the streak. Never. Brock/Taker for Mania 29 or GTFO plz. Taker/Cena for 30.


Pretty much. Rock/Cena II and Taker/Lesnar is just fine. No need to fuck with it and have another unneeded rematch with Lesnar/HHH. Hunter can stay this one out.

Then for WM30, Taker/Cena is good enough as the top draw. If Rock and Lesnar are there, they can also bump the buys even more with a match between each other. Others might not like it, but that's perfect for me.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Starbuck, you don't want to spend £8.50 for the rock DVD? Amazon.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Best PPV Matches of 2011 is BO$$ as fucking well. Hall of Pain Henry + The Best Taker-HHH Match + One of the Greatest Matches Ever + Christian-Orton + TRIPS/PUNK + A Ton of More Punk = SUCCESSS MOTHER-FUCKERSSSSSSS !

No matter what happens, Taker's match @ Wrestlemania XXIX needs to be against a "Paul Heyman Guy" , with Trips going against the other "Paul Heyman Guy" ... WHICH MEANS...

TAKER/TRIPS VS PUNK/BORK WM XXIX ?!?!?!?!?! JIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :vince

Seriously though, Taker vs Punk/Brock and HHH vs whoever Taker doesn't face + Rock/Cena NOT main eventing is my wishlist for XXIX.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Starbuck, you don't want to spend £8.50 for the rock DVD? Amazon.


I don't buy DVD's anymore if there is a blu-ray version released. Right now it's still £22 for the blu-ray and I'm not paying that for it when I know it will come down. Same for the Best of PPV 11 set. It's still around £20 for blu-ray but I know that will come down pretty soon too so I'll wait that one out. Best of PPV 10 is like £8 so that's an easy pick up. I'll possibly get Best of PPV 12 next year when the price comes down because I'd like to own Brock/HHH in HD. Lesnar's new set is a must have for me and I'll definitely be picking that one up. I know it has Brock/Cena on there which I definitely want to own. If only it had Brock/HHH on there too and I'd be sorted lol.

EDIT - I might eventually pick up Rock/Cena Once in a Lifetime purely because I'm a mark for both of them and would like to own it lol. If SV had the blu-ray up for like £10 along with the DVD version for the Black Friday sale, I reckon I would have got it. I wouldn't pay over that for it though. Maybe in a couple of years, ha.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Ah, got ya.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's a fucking joke that WWESHOP are having such a huge sale on all their dvds/blu-rays but only those in the US can buy them. Fuck that. Hopefully these new Freemantle people will have a launch sale in January when they take over so I can go on a spending spree lol.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

FME can also now announce the first new release titles for 2013, to be released on both DVD and Blu-ray:

Night Of Champions 2012 (21st January)
Hell In A Cell 2012 (28th January)
Top 100 Raw Moments (4th February)
The Attitude Era (18th February)
Live in the UK – November 2012* (25th February)
Best PPV Matches 2012 (4th March)
Survivor Series 2012 (11th March)
TLC: Tables, Ladders, Chairs (25th March)

*on DVD only

New website: http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/?src=wwedvdnews


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Arnold Tricky said:


> FME can also now announce the first new release titles for 2013, to be released on both DVD and Blu-ray:
> 
> Night Of Champions 2012 (21st January)
> Hell In A Cell 2012 (28th January)
> ...


Cool that they've finally set up. I really do hope they kick things off with a big sale on the back titles or something. That would be nice.

Just had a quick look at the Falls Count Anywhere set. That might be worth a pick up if it goes on sale lol.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Really glad to see they're continuing to release all the PPVs on BD and they're going to keep doing the Live In The UK sets those were the only two thing I bought from SV everything else I import anyway.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, Live in the UK . Was worried those would go away after SV.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm just dreading finding out the prices. With a bit of luck, they will be around the same as SV and not £27 for a PPV Blu-Ray like it is in an HMV Store.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Phil_Mc_90 said:


> Been watching a lot of Foley recently, my god I love that man. Can't wait for his set next year should be epic
> 
> Always forget just how much I love the Foley/HHH street fight from Royal Rumble, ***** for me and Foleys best match.
> A few star ratings for his bigger matches
> ...


Mick Foley is a friggin god inside that ring. I don't care what anyone says. He is.

Oh and yeah, Taker vs Punk is the best plan for WrestleMania. So it being a possible go atm is :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just ordered No Way Out 2012. I know it isn't the highest of quality, show-wise, but I really liked it. Also pre-ordered the Raw 1000 DVD.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I recently watched *Triple H vs Edge for the World Heavyweight Championship in Japan* for the first time and I must say it was pretty fucking awesome.
Well, I didn't like all that interference crap near the end that much but at least Hunter got the win.
And the Japan crowd was very cool.

I'm not good with this star system stuff but I guess I would give like 3 1/2 out of 5 stars.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Bret ***** matches:

Vs Owen WMX
Vs Owen Cage
Vs Austin WM13
Vs Bulldog SS92

I think that's it, I have alot more at **** 1/2-**** 3/4 though. Fuck it,

*Top 10 Bret Hart Matches*

1. Vs Stone Cold WM13, *****
2. Vs Owen Hart WMX, *****
3. Vs Owen Hart Summerslam 94, *****
4. Vs British Bulldog, Summerslam 92, *****
5. W/ Owen vs The Steiner Brothers, **** 3/4
6. Vs Mr Perfect, Summerslam 91, **** 3/4
7. Vs Benoit, Owen Tribute Match, **** 1/2
8. Vs Taker, ONO 97, **** 1/2
9. Vs Diesel, Survivor Series 95, **** 1/2
10.Vs Stone Cold, Survivor Series 96, **** 1/2

HM: Vs Mr Perfect KOTR93, W/ Hart Foundation vs Austin/Shamrock/Goldust/LOD (both **** 1/2) Vs Hakushi IYH (**** 1/4, probably not as good as some I left off but...he carried Hakushi to a **** 1/4 match). 

Is Bret "Mr Summerslam"?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell, when did the WWE start paying attention to matches that have already been released on DVD? Bryan/Punk from Over The Limit I can understand since you're gonna put their MITB match on there and it's also ok since it's on Punk's release, but there's no way you can validate the omission of CENA VS. LESNAR. Now they're gonna make me get the Lesnar Blu Ray just for that... No Punk/Jericho also saddens me. They clearly don't realize Extreme Rules was their best PPV by far this year. Blu Ray exclusives are shit aside from Sheamus/Bryan, BUT I'm still buying it for what's on it.  Just could've been better. Odd that they went with the IC title match to represent No Way Out.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Phil_Mc_90 said:


> Been watching a lot of Foley recently, my god I love that man. Can't wait for his set next year should be epic
> 
> Always forget just how much I love the Foley/HHH street fight from Royal Rumble, ***** for me and Foleys best match.
> A few star ratings for his bigger matches
> ...


Since you're doing "Best of Foley", (re)watch Foley vs Austin from Over the Edge 98. Awesome match.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

What the hell does the ratio thing mean on XWT? How do you keep it up?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You have to upload as much as you download, so you're actually contributing to the website rather than just using it for yourself. The easiest way is to just seed the torrents to the point that you've seeded as much, or more, than what you've downloaded. If you download an old torrent that no-one is leeching, so you won't be uploading anything as a result, then your best bet is to download the latest Raw and then just let that seed to make up for it. To keep a 1 ratio, for every GB you download, you must upload 1GB.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Top 10 BRET Matches*

1. vs Owen XM X : *******
2. vs Steve Austin WM XIII : *******
3. vs Steve Austin SS 96 : *******
4. vs Mr. Perfect KOTR 93 : ***** 3/4*
5. vs Piper WM VIII : ***** 1/2*
6. vs Taker ONO 97 : ***** 1/2*
7. vs Diesel SS 95 : ***** 1/2*
8. vs Davey Boy IYH5 95 : ***** 1/2*
9. W/Owen vs Steiners WF94 : ***** 1/2*
10. vs Davey Boy SS 92 : ***** 1/2*

Triple H vs Edge from Japan is a nice little main event that just so happens to take place on a big international show. One of the better "heel vs heel" matches out there, as opposed to the shitty ones such as Sheamus and Orton (I swear those two have some BAD chemistry, even IF alot of people love the cell match that they had together). 

Yes, Bret is Mr. Summerslam of course, but there are another few candidates. All of Lesnar's 3 Summerslam matches are ***** 1/4+* and deserve to be mentioned for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 10 Bret:

1. Vs Austin SS 96 - *****
2. Vs Austin WM 13 - *****
3. Vs Owen WM 10 - *****
4. Vs Mr Perfect SS 91 - *****
5. Vs Mr Perfect KOTR 93 - *****
6. Vs Vs Vader Vs Undertaker Vs Austin IYH13 - ****3/4
7. Vs Diesel RR 95 - ****1/2
8. Vs Diesel SS 95 - ****1/2
9. Vs Undertaker ONO 97 - ****1/4
10. Vs Diesel KOTR 94 - ****1/4

Damn, didn't realise I had so many ***** matches for Bret lol.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just ordered ECW Unreleased and Ladder Match 2 sets.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Being the big Taker mark, i ordered the Streak DVD whilst its on sale, couldn't resist. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was thinking of ordering the Bluray, but gonna see if I can get my mate to buy it me for Christmas instead . As soon as the fucker comes online so I can subtly drop hints about it :side:.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of the ECW : Unreleased DVD set, I've had it since the day it came out but never bothered to watch it because I had better things to do with my time than watch ECW matches I suppose... When I get my 5-6 week break in 6 days I'm probably going to watch that and all the other DVDs I currently have in my backlog that I haven't watched yet.

OH GOD, The Top 50 Finishers second disc took me THREE DAYS to get through. Normally I wouldn't care, but damn did this disc blow ... The most memorable thing that stuck out in my mind would have to be the Mankind Promo at KOTR 97 before a very average Foley-Lawler match. The DVD is never GOOD but it manages to be FUN at times. Hopefully disc 3 fares a little better for me..


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been watching a couple of Tag matches involving Bret Hart today, never seen them before:

shawn micheals/diesel vs bret hart/undertaker - MSG 3/17/96










bret hart-randy savage vs shawn micheals-ric flair


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just watched cactus jack vs vader from WcW Saturday night. What a war! Vader just beat the crap out of foley who then completed a great comeback and won via countout. A great match especially for tv. Harley Race was gold on the outside too **** match for me.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Top 10 Bret:
> 
> 1. Vs Austin SS 96 - *****
> 2. Vs Austin WM 13 - *****
> ...


Diesel RR was that good? Never saw it tbh, what rating do you have for vs Davey SS92?

And I forgot about that four way, that would also go in my HM. Vader's 2nd (or first) best match in the WWF

Edit: Just saw you have vs Diesel KOTR 94 down there too lol, never saw that either.

Is the Bret/Backlund SS94 match worth a watch? I know the ending, but not anything else. I just checked the match length and it's 35 mins, damn.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Most people don't think that much of the RR match because of the finish (its overbooked and kinda stupid lol), but myself and Andy adore it more than SS (he hates that match, I still love it lol).

Vs Davey from SS 92 - ****, and same for their IYH match in 95 too. I'm not as in love with them as most people .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Vengeance 2005:*

Carlito vs Shelton Benjamin - ***1/4
- A pretty good opener for this PPV. Both men do a good job and make it the best they can in about 12 minutes of match time. Shelton is always on a roll and Carlito keeps up despite not having a finisher yet. There's a smarky crowd here in Las Vegas with Shelton getting booed and Carlito cheered.

Victoria vs Christy Hemme - **
- Not as bad as WM21 but it's still the low point of the matches. And all that screaming reminds me of Kelly Kelly's "wrestling". It tells you how little they care about the women's division at this point, though, when the Women's Champion (Trish) is injured and still champion.

Kane vs Edge - ***1/2
- A much better match than any they've had before. Crowd is as usual more concerned about Matt Hardy than what goes on but they manage to put on a quality match unlike the terrible PPV match before this at Backlash 04. A lot of drama in the end with Snitsky interfering, Lita trying to get involved and Kane going through every single one of them to win. Surprised I must say as I was damn sure Edge would win before moving on into the feud with Matt. Before I move on to the next match, though, I must drop this. Kane & Lita's relationship has got to be one of the most confusing angles ever. It goes in so many different directions and despite Kane forcing Lita to marry him, their marriage ends by Kane coming out as the face and Lita the heel. Now I know this was fueled by real-life stuff behind the scenes with Edge/Matt/Lita but still...

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - ***3/4
- Another good match between these two but this feels in many ways like a poor man's rendition of the WM match. Starts off slow with headlocks and shit, then they go outside the ring for a bit and it gets exciting by the end with finishers being exchanged and the crowd coming into life. Still one hell of a match and HBK gets even with Angle following an awesome Sweet Chin Music against a diving Angle. Oh, and the build-up to this was so bad that they had to recap their WM match as the pre-match video package. It was literally Angle coming to Raw with HBK asking for a rematch and him answering "Okay".

John Cena vs Christian vs Chris Jericho - ****
- This would have had more potential as a one-on-one between Cena and Christian as that's how it started off but it's still a great triple threat. Traditional with every guy getting their short amount of time in the ring together and an interesting commentary team as Lawler pulls for Jericho (after sucking Christian's cock for over 2 years!), Coachman for Christian and JR being neutral/pro-Cena. Overall a very enjoyable match and I have to laugh at the five or so Cena haters this early as there's a very brief "Cena sucks" chant going on and some goofball has the thumbs down when camera closes in on Cena doing the double 5 Knuckle Shuffle. It sucks how they dropped the ball on Christian after this by drafting him to Smackdown and burying him to the point he decided to not renew his contract by the end of 05.

Batista vs Triple H - ****3/4
- And here's the awesome Hell in a Cell main event! Both men go all out and this feels like an epic, violent fight and thankfully, doesn't come off as the extremely forced garbage that was the HBK/HHH match the year before. This match has everything a cell match needs save for them exiting it and going to the top. Steel chains, blood, chair with barbwire, sledgehammers, steel steps, finishers, a hot crowd, excitement and so on. Lasts over 20 minutes and every minute of it is worth watching. So many memorable moments and I can't even put it into words. I can only imagine how a live experience would have felt when HHH gave Batista a Pedigree. HHH-hating smarks and casuals all around must have thought "Fuck, this is the end!" only for Batista to kick out to a huge reaction. I also liked the finish with Batista doing the powerbomb and HHH trying to counter with the sledgehammer but couldn't quite get it done due to the beating he had taken. After this, HHH's "reign of terror" is officially over and he will be gone for almost 4 months to take a break. He still waited and did a master job of legitimizing Batista as a main eventer here before that, though. People talk about today being a transitional period for WWE but so was this year and look at how great it was. Cena's break into the main event was in a masterpiece "I Quit" match while Batista got in through this brutal HIAC classic. Today, I can't even dream of something 1/10th of this in quality.

*Overall:* **** out of ***** (A great PPV, if not a bit short with the matches. Only 1 hour into it, half the card was finished and although the three main event matches got a lot of time, the Viscera/Lillian segment was a huge waste of time that could have been used for a better match. But with the matches we got, every single one delivered except the divas one but that's short enough it wont matter in the end. Quite possibly the best PPV so far into the year which says a lot since every single one of them have been quality, including the Smackdown exclusives!)


----------



## Heterodox (Nov 18, 2012)

I am selling all of my WWE DVDs. The prices won't be too expensive so just PM me if you want something and we'll figure out a price. I have:

Shawn Michaels Heartbreak and Triumph
Ricky Steamboat The Life Story of A Dragon
Best of Clash of The Champions
Smackdown Best of 2009-2010
Hart & Soul
Brian Pillman Loose Cannon
McMahon
Steve Austin Newest DVD 4 disc set
The Legacy of Steve Austin
ECW One Night Stand 2005
The John Cena Experience
The Story of Edge
Chris Jericho Breaking The Code
The Rock The Most Electrifying Man
The Epic Journey of Dwayne Johnson
Rey Mysterio The Life of A Masked Man
Rey Mysterio Biggest Little Man
Shawn Michaels My Journey
Satans Prison Elimination Chamber
Best of Starrcade
Shawn vs Bret
Viva La Raza The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero
Greatest Steel Cage Matches
Four Horsmen DVD
Ric Flair Definitive Collection
Macho Madness Best of Randy Savage
Monday Night Wars
Rob Van Dam One Kind of a Kind
Jake Roberts DVD
WrestleMania XX
Tombstone
Bret Hart Best There Is Best There Was Best There Ever Will Bs
Best PPV Matches of 2011
John Cena My Life

Prices:

DVDs that came out in 2011-2012 = $15 (WWEShop sells them for like $30 so you pretty much get it here for half price)

The rest: $10

Also, 2 DVDs for $15 and 3 for $20. 

PM if interested


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ether said:


> Is the Bret/Backlund SS94 match worth a watch? I know the ending, but not anything else. I just checked the match length and it's 35 mins, damn.


Yep, but the match they had on Superstars is probably better. And also 1,000,000 minutes long IIRC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh THIS Top 50 Finishers DVD is pissing me off to the maximum of pissed-off-ness. ROCK VS GOLDBERG? What is this NONSENSE I'm watching ? 

Speaking of Bret-Backlund , it's the only **** match on the whole fucking DVD so far. DEAR WWE, MAKE YOUR FUCKING MATCH LISTINGS BETTER.


----------



## JamesCurtis24 (Jun 7, 2012)

Wow... just finished watching the Attitude Era documentary and I gotta say... I feel like I've gotten closure.

It has literally changed my perspective on WWE. Since I started watching again about a year ago, I've always just had hopes of seeing all my favorites from the attitude era return (main reason I started watching again was to see Rock). Now admittedly, many of the new super stars have grown on me. But part of me still craved so badly to see the Austin's, Road Dogg's, Undertaker's etc... I really just wanted to relive those attitude era days.

Seeing the documentary, however, has made me realize that the attitude era was really something special. It was more than just a show, it was also about the time we were living in. The attitude era was just a different, unique time in the world and it's just something that can't be replicated. I haven't realized that until seeing the documentary, and I think it's because I've just never had closure. The AE ended and there was no real reason or formal explanation, it left fans wanting more. Seeing the AE documentary just really kind of gave me that closure I had never known I needed.

Would I still like to see the WWE enter another "attitude era"? Absolutely; however, in saying that, I realize that the WWE will never again be what it was in the late 90's-early 2000's. We need to be proud to have lived through a once-in-a-life-time era. It's okay to want WWE to push the envelope, but we have to realize it's going to be in a new way and with new super stars. And sure, it's always great to see old super stars return, like the Road Dogg at the rumble; and maybe Stone Cold still has another match or two in him and it's nice to have these just as a reminder of the past.

Moving forward, I still hope to see WWE go with a more edgy brand in the future. Pushing the envelope is what made it exciting; however, like I said, it has to be new and different with the super stars of today.

I finally feel like I can move on! Great DVD! Still have the other two, with the actual matches. Can't wait.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

I just saw the Attitude era documentary myself and all I got out of it was that the product was so good back then and every wrestler literally fighting for their spot... to which I say... Where the hell is that in today's product?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I want to grab a few Brock Lesnar videos from his 2012 return from YT, has anyone got a date lost of his apps at all on Raw?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/12.htm

ctrl+F 'Lesnar'


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/12.htm
> 
> ctrl+F 'Lesnar'


Thanks mate (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, June 2005 was an awesome month for WWE. So many great matches and two excellent PPVs. Some random ratings below:

JBL vs Chris Benoit (SD 9/6/05) - ***
JBL vs Undertaker (SD 16/6/05) - ***3/4
Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero (SD 23/6/05) - ****1/4
Ric Flair vs Kurt Angle (Raw 27/6/05) - ***1/2
Hogan/HBK/Cena vs Jericho/Christian/Tomko (Raw 27/6/05) - **3/4
JBL/Booker T/Chris Benoit/Undertaker/Christian/Muhammad Hassan (6-Man Elimination Match - SD 30/6/05) - ***1/4

Some interesting TV matches. What a rip-off in the last one, though. I came in hoping for some Benoit/Taker action and they got zero.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I forgot how much I enjoyed HHH/Benoit from No Mercy '00 ****1/4+


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> I forgot how much I enjoyed HHH/Benoit from No Mercy '00 ****1/4+


Speaking of which, who was the heel and face in this feud? AFAIK, Benoit was a heel from his debut until the week before WM17 when he challenged Kurt Angle and Triple H was a heel from 'whenever' until his 01 injury/02 return.

For their series of matches, I rate them at:

Smackdown 00 - N/A
No Mercy 00 - ***3/4
Wrestlemania XX - *****
Backlash 04 - ****1/2
Vengeance 04 - ***3/4
Raw 04 (Ironman) - ****1/4
Raw 14/03/05 - ****1/4
Raw 05 (Gold Rush Tournament) - ***1/2
Smackdown 05 (Eddie Tribute) - ***1/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Both were technically heels but you could say Trips was "the face" in the match by default because he was defending his wife/marriage just like his matches with Kurt Angle. Although when Trips was defending Steph against Jericho he was clearly the heel in that situation because the story was from a different perspective. I liked the writing in 2000 and what could have been more stupid soap opera angles involving Trips & Steph was good television that led to some good, even great matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ahhhhh yes, Benoit-Trips is one of Hunter's all time greatest series's of matches. Everytime they stepped into the ring together we got GREATNEZZZZZZ, as both men have each other's in ring psychology mapped out so well that they know exactly what kind of story they wanna tell before they even get in there. 

In regards to the NM 00 match ; They were both heels, but going into the match Trips was teased as turning face at the time due to the whole Stephanie/Kurt angle (wow... Kurt ANGLE? Get it? :kurt ) . This continued until the whole Survivor Series 2000 return where Trips was revealed to be responsible for Austin being ran over.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

HHH was mad over on that PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Both were technically heels but you could say Trips was "the face" in the match by default because he was defending his wife/marriage just like his matches with Kurt Angle. Although when Trips was defending Steph against Jericho he was clearly the heel in that situation because the story was from a different perspective. *I liked the writing in 2000* and what could have been more stupid soap opera angles involving Trips & Steph was good television that led to some good, even great matches.


Well no surprise you liked the writing in 2000, after all they did have the single greatest writer in WWF/E history at the time .

RIP Chris Kreski .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I mean just compare the HHH/Steph angles with Jericho & Angle then to the soap opera angles now and the new ones just aren't as interesting (Kane/Bryan/AJ, Big Show/Edge/Vicki, Cena/AJ/Vicki, etc). I will say Dolph is shined pretty well this week in the middle of all this stuff with promos/matches/backstage segments.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame Steph replaced him as head writer in November 2000. Because you know... it made sense for Steph to take over...

Edit: Also, when I watched WWF 2000 a few years ago when I got them on disc, it was amazing how I could actually tell there was something different from the last show Chris Kreski did and the first show Stephanie did. I didn't even know there was any change with creative and shit until I looked it up afterwards.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another thing I love about Benoit/HHH's series is the fact that Benoit was ALWAYS strongly booked and it was not one-sided like HHH/HBK (Hunter won about every single match save for 1 or 2). Even in those Raw matches they had in 05 long after Benoit's time as a main eventer was over, they still booked him strongly with him losing the first match after a bunch of shenanigans and he made HHH tap out _again_ in their second match. Although that Gold Rush Tournament went straight to hell when Edge and Kane became the finalists when they could have booked HBK/Benoit for that, giving us a third classic match between them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They made Benoit look like a *BEAST* against Hunter, and really played up how Trips was AFRAID of Benoit. Just take two examples from 2005 , the first being the "Pick Your Poison" match wherein the look on Trips's face when Benoit is announced as his opponent is just a look of TERROR. The second example being the rope pull from Batista and Trips tapping out to Benoit more than anybody during his career.

I'm thinking Benoit was a Paul Levesque guy, and that's why Benoit got a mention on Hunter's DVD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> I'm thinking Benoit was a Paul Levesque guy, and that's why Benoit got a mention on Hunter's DVD.


That's a definite. They had a helluva lot of respect for each other. Hunter even claims that Benoit is the guy he respects the most in the entire business which is probably why he never hesitated to put him over every time they went against each other. Part of me thinks that when Vince dies/retires, Trips will put an end to this "Who's Chris Benoit?" bullshit Vince has been pulling ever since he talked about that "healing process" the day after the tragedy.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

When we wrestling fans talk about the creative side of this business names that usually come up (for good or bad reasons) are Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, and Vince Russo. In ROH Gabe Sapolsky. Even for old school fans know of Dusty, Cornette, Watts, etc. How would you critique Stephanie McMahon's impact on the business or as a creative mind? She has indeed been head of creative for quite some time now as Cal pointed out.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Clique said:


> How would you critique Stephanie McMahon's impact on the business or as a creative mind? She has indeed been head of creative for quite some time now as Cal pointed out.


Going by hard numbers, Stephs run as head of creative has to be considered a complete disaster. She took over in late 2000, I believe. Since then buyrates and ratings have been cut in half.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*On this day…*

Today is November 25, 2012. On paper, not a noteworthy day in the least. There is a history between Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart in the month of November that has nothing to do with November 9, 1997 (Montreal Screwjob). On November 25, 1989, the Rockers and Hart Foundation locked horns in a very good match at Madison Square Garden. Shawn and Bret were both tag team wrestlers at this point in time. 

Just three years later to the exact day, Shawn and Bret would again be working against one another. This time in a singles match. This time not on a house-show, but on one of the major WWF PPV’s, Survivor Series 1992. And this time, both Shawn and Bret would be title-holders. Bret would be the WWF World Champion. He had beaten Ric Flair the month previous during a Coliseum Home video taping. The match itself was less than spectacular, but the fact remained that the Hitman was the WWF Champion for the very first time in his career. Shawn was the Intercontinental champion. This was his first singles belt in the WWF. He had just beaten the British Bulldog earlier that November in a very solid match on Saturday Night’s Main Event. 

In the span of three years (to the exact day), both men had gone from tag team wrestlers to holding the top two titles in the company. On this very same card, Randy Savage and Mr. Perfect teamed up to take on Ric Flair and Razor Ramon in a tag team match. Originally, the Ultimate Warrior was supposed to be Savage’s partner, but Warrior had been fired by the WWF after testing positive for steroids. Bret Hart states in his book that the government was on Vince’s back about steroids, forcing Vince’s hand on releasing Warrior. Due to that, previous main eventers getting up there in age, and some leaving to go to WCW (Flair), Vince McMahon had to transition into a different generation of stars. This match is the very first glimpse of that realization for McMahon, and there would still be road bumps ahead (Hogan winning the WWF Title at Wrestlemania IX, right after Bret Hart had lost to Yokozuna, Hogan dropping the belt back to Yokozuna at KOTR ’93 in Hogans’ last WWF match for nearly 20 years later and darting off to WCW). Bret would eventually win that title back at Wrestlemania X. That event also turned out to be a huge event for Shawn Michaels. Many believe he had a show-stealing Ladder match, which got rated ***** by Dave Meltzer. The match was pioneering and began the way of high-flying matches in America. Wrestlemania X solidified what Vince and both Shawn and Bret started at Survivor Series 1992. They truly moved the company into the “New Generation” at Wrestlemania X. Wrestlemania X took place at Madison Square Garden, the same location these two men wrestled a classic tag team match just 4,5 years earlier, November 25, 1989. Which brings us to our first match:

*Rockers vs. Hart Foundation 11.25.89 Madison Square Garden- New York, NY*

*Note:* This match is somehow not on Youtube, despite being on the Greatest Rivalries: HBK/Bret DVD and the HBK: MY Journey DVD. Here it is in 2 parts on Dailymotion, it's a 20 minute match.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8hbkx_the-rockers-vs-the-hart-foundation_sport?search_algo=2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8hcu4_the-rockers-vs-the-hart-foundation_sport

Bret and Marty start the match off working some counters back and forth keeping it somewhat basic in the opening couple of minutes. Right away, it’s pretty obvious they are telling a story by working at a slower pace in the early stages of the match and pick up the pace as the match continues on. I love that style of story-telling. Just like in any line of work, finishing is what matters most. The Rockers start their double-team moves with a hip-toss and elbow drops on the Hitman before getting back up and getting absolutely trucked by a clothesline by the Anvil.

Shawn tries to knockdown Anvil off the ropes with a shoulder block, but, Anvil is having none of that shit. They stand there and stare at eachother for a good two seconds. Michaels gets back to work and Anvil catches Michaels in an attempted cross-body. Anvil goes for the bodyslam, but get Shawn counters into a sweet cradle for a 2 count.

In comes Marty, and he works an arm-bar on Neidhart and then proceeds to once again get trucked by him. This is certainly one of Anvils’ better performances in the ring. Granted, he is in there with a high work-rate opponent, but Anvil appears to still give a shit here. Shawn tags in, double superkicks from Shawn and Marty for a 2 count. Bret comes in, and we get some Bret vs. Shawn action. Bret hits an inverted atomic drop on Shawn, works his knee into Shawn’s back on the apron, and hits a backbreaker on Shawn. Bret deciding to work Shawn’s back. Shawn sells it all like a champ. Bret comes off as such as a mean, nasty heel in this part of the match, despite the fact they are not heels. He hits Shawn with two of the stiffest looking and sounding European uppercuts I’ve seen. Neidhart tags in. Sweet, little spot where Shawn leaps from the middle of the ring and tries to tag Marty, but Neidhart is there to catch Shawn, prevent the tag and move Shawn back into the Hart Foundation’s corner. The story here is that the match is not going as easy for the Hart’s as they thought it would, and because of that, they are having to resort to their previous heel-ish ways. Bret hits a suplex on Shawn, and the Harts start wrestling more of a heel-ish style and keep Shawn in the Harts’ corner and decimate him. Interesting stuff, as the Hart Foundation weren’t heels at this point in time. But the Rockers size (or lack there of), look, and style just lent them to getting more sympathy than any of the other tag teams of this time. Also, nowhere near as much high-flying stuff from the Rockers in this match as their known for. More psychology based with the Rockers trying to beat the Hart Foundation at their own game, mat-wrestling, pacing and even getting a couple cheap-shots in behind the ref’s back. Transition spot has Bret miss an elbow off the second rope which allows Shawn to make the tag to HOUSE OF FIRE!1 Marty. Marty goes to town on Bret. I then counted four (count them, 4!) near-falls: knee-lift, backslide, cross-body, and a roll-up. Bret an Marty go back and forth, before Marty tags in Shawn who proceeds to get trucked by Anvil (Anvil sure did a lot of trucking in this match). Bret tags in and goes to suplex Shawn, but Shawn counters with a suplex of his own. Bret then puts Shawn in abdominal stretch, Shawn goes to counter it and in comes Anvil, and then Marty All hell breaks loose.. Match ends as Hercules, Paul Roma and Tito Santana come to break it up. Match ends in a draw. Great match. Perhaps my favorite Rockers match ever It’s pretty apparent that Shawn & Marty made it a point not to go to the top rope during this match, as they only did once. I love the Rockers high-flying shit, but this is a match in which they relied on their chain-wrestling and psychology to tell a story, and it worked. I loved it. *****1/4 *


*Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart- Survivor Series 1992 [11.25.92] Richfield Coliseum, Richfield, Ohio*






Match starts off with some mat wrestling, in which Bret starts to get the better of until Shawn gets to the ropes to break that up. Bret applies a hammerlock, reversed by Shawn. Bret then gets the better of the situation by running and using his momentum to throw Shawn out of the ring. Shawn gets sling-shotted back into the ring and Bret applies an armbar. Bret goes for the roll-up only for Shawn to avoid it and hit a cross-body block. Two count. Bret starts to get back to work on Shawn’s arm and re-applies an armbar. They begin to pick up the pace alittle bit and run the ropes. Bret attempts to hit Shawn in the corner, but instead, his shoulder hits the ringpost. 

Shawn hits a sweet-looking armbreaker on Bret. Bret then does his Bret Hart style hitting the turnbuckle chest first. Shawn goes for a pin, but gets two. Shawn hits a nice dropkick and backbreaker, for two. Shawn grabs a chinlock on Bret, only for Bret to fight back with a swinging neckbreaker to regain control..for a moment. It’s actually Shawn who keeps control of the match, as he gets up off the mat before Bret does. Shawn grabs a headlock on Bret. Bret delivers a boot to the face of Shawn in the corner. 

Bret goes for an elbow off the second rope, but Shawn moves out of the way, 2 count. Shawn runs at Bret, Bret is able to avoid Shawn, and deliver backdrop suplex, excellently delivered by the Hitman. Both guys are on the mat catching their breath after the back-and-forth action we are seeing. Back up, Bret regains control of the match with a catapult of ol’ HBK into the corner. They do the spot where Shawn is lying across the ropes, Bret kicks Shawn in the stomach, only for Shawn to land on his nuts on the top rope. Nice little spot. Nearfall on backbody drop for a two count. 

We get the Bret Hart five moves of doom. Russian leg-sweep into a 2 count. (By the way, it’s amazing how much more stiff the WWF ring was in 1992 compared to 1998 and on to now. There is very little give with that ring anytime a wrestler bumps. In both this match and the match I watched and reviewed above, the mat looks like a 20x20 slab of concrete and not just because of the color of the canvas, but whenever a wrestler takes a basic back bump, it’s as if he’s falling on concrete. The mat doesn’t move at all. Stiff as hell. Much softer ring starting from 1998.) That goes into the Bret Hart backbreaker and the Bret Hart elbow off the second rope for another 2 count. Ah, only 3 moves of doom there. We get a change of momentum with a superplex! Both men are down and Bret is able to lay his arm across Shawn body for a two count. Bret then applies the sleeper on Shawn. They then do the spot where Shawn tries to get out of the sleeper by pushing Bret into the corner, but Earl Hebner gets in the way, and gets squashed (Was it a must for Hebner to ref all HBK/Bret matches? And get bumped in each match, as well? ). 

Bret gets dumped out onto the floor after he avoided a suplex from Bret. Some outside shenanigans as Shawn slams Bret into the steel ringpost. Back in the ring, Shawn gets back to back nearfalls after whipping Bret into the corner and hitting a backbody drop. Close but no cigar. Shawn decided to heel it up and argues with Hebner for alittle, Bret gets cute and tries to steal this one away with a rollup from behind Shawn, but he only gets a two count. Shawn hits a superkick (interesting to note, it was still a superkick at this time and not yet “sweet chin music,” as this wasn’t his finisher yet). Now, Shawn hits his then finishing move at the time, the unstoppable “teardrop” suplex! No way a wrestler can kick out of that move, right? Well, Bret Hart does the impossible and actually kicks out of this devastating maneuver. The finish sees Shawn crotch himself on the ropes and then attempt to jump off the second rope, only to pancake flat on the mat and land right into Bret’s sharpshooter. Very similar to how they ended regulation of the Ironman Match four years later, only this time, Shawn would submit. 

Nice, long 26 minute match in which Bret retains that beautiful, prestigious WWF Winged Eagle Belt. Terrific match, much better than I thought it would be, and much better than I remember it being. Some back and forth action, mixed in with some quality mat wrestling. They both worked their ass off, barely any rest-holds. It is apparent in this match that Bret is much further along in the ring and in the “WWF style” than Shawn is here. Even still, for a guy who is a lot less experienced and a full eight years younger than Bret, Shawn certainly holds his end of the bargain in this match. He still had some work to do, but he was clearly on the right path. Even at this stage, it was quite apparent these were the two guys who would lead the company into the future. They are great, no doubt about it. Call it *****1/2*.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Just done watching the AE doc. Was entertaining, could have gone a bit longer though was just 57 minutes. I also thought it could have used a few more guys talking, got a bit repetitive with Christian, Road-Dog, Patterson etc. Most notably guys like HHH, Edge, Jericho and maybe one of the most important Mr McMahon were missing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret Vs Shawn: The long rivalry between two top stars that produced zero matches worth watching! 

Seriously, I can't think of any good matches, singes or tag between them. Which is insane because they are both great wrestlers with a nice catalogue of matches AND were part of 2 of my favourite tag teams ever that also helped produce some great tag matches. They just never gelled together imo. Worse than HHH/Orton, Orton/Cena, HBK/HHH etc. They all at least had that ONE match you could point to and call great (NM 07 LMS, NWO 98, Raw 03).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

murder said:


> Going by hard numbers, Stephs run as head of creative has to be considered a complete disaster. She took over in late 2000, I believe. Since then buyrates and ratings have been cut in half.


Even when you throw out the numbers and ratings discussion, looking at the quality of the storylines Stephsnie, her team, and Vince have produced in say the last decade has been unimpressive. The last storyline I can think of that had a great start to finish was probably the Taker/Michaels/HHH arc from 2009-2012, but I'm not sure who the credit goes to for putting that together. So many of the big angles that may or may not start good but the payoff at the end more often than not falls flat due to weak writing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When it comes to BIG angles like Undertaker/HBK etc, I do always wonder just how much input the writers have in them. Can't see guys like Shawn and Taker just letting the writers do what they want. PLUS the wrestlers are usually way more creative. Didn't Jericho and Rey pretty much put their feud together in 09? Same for Jericho and Shawn the year before too I think?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I believe I read somewhere that Jericho and Rey put their feud together which I really liked the whole de-masking aspect of it. Especially since Jericho was sort of on a personal mission to destroy legends or legacies that year (the legends WM) and it tied in with his quest to win the IC Title and strip Rey of his tradition.

I also read Jericho and Shawn put their 2008 program together which was excellent from start to finish. It was perfect character progression for both men. I thought with Jericho's heel turn and Michaels selling injuries while going the issues with Flair, Batista, his wife getting punched. 

Those are programs I will remember for the quality writing and execution with great beginning, middle and ends. The matches that ended those feuds too made were great too.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Just copped the CM Punk DVD last night (along with the nWo haven't watched it yet though). 


Great documentary, I hate that Vince wasn't interviewed personally to explain some of his decisions that undercut Punk's growth but then again I guess it wasn't necessary. I think after watching the doc you should be able to understand the mind of the man. 


Special features: my favorite is "from extra to champion" only because Cena & H seemed not even to remember seeing Punk during WM 22 and to turn around in just a few years and become a champion is truly a great story. Another good one was the December to Dismember story which kinda shows the drastic difference between Heyman & McMahon in booking a show (it should be noted that Lashley winning that title was the beginning of the end for the 3rd brand). 


Matches: haven't watched em all yet but I did watch the match with Albright from OVW (I gave it a solid ***, feel like the stoppage slowed the match down but overall good match). Rewatched his awesome match w/ Morrison on ECW TV (****) big fan of their series in general. Now watching the Mysterio match from Over The Limit '10 which was pretty good (*** 1/2) more match stoppage slowing the flow but it picked up big time afterwards. Really fun match, a fan of both guys. Gonna watch his match with DB from OTL '12 now.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

sorry if it's already put in the thread, when does the Attitude Era DVD come out?


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Skyfall said:


> sorry if it's already put in the thread, when does the Attitude Era DVD come out?


It is already out!


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Clique said:


> When we wrestling fans talk about the creative side of this business names that usually come up (for good or bad reasons) are Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, and Vince Russo. In ROH Gabe Sapolsky. Even for old school fans know of Dusty, Cornette, Watts, etc. How would you critique Stephanie McMahon's impact on the business or as a creative mind? She has indeed been head of creative for quite some time now as Cal pointed out.


I miss Chris Kreski, let's just leave it at that


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

whats everyones thoughts on HBK vs Angle WM21 and the Vengeance 2005 rematch?i just re watched both and i still like the first better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The first is better , and although the Vengeance match gets shit on quite a bit , I'm also a huge fan of that one as well (finish and all actually). HBK's Cyborg ankles that seem to withstand pain like a Mid-80s Hulkster never fails to make me LOL though. DEF check out their 30 minute Ironman match that took place at Raw Homecoming , my lowest ranked out the three although I feel it's horrendously underrated and extremely fun. 

WRASSLIN' MACHINE KURT OWNZZZ :kurt


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

ya i have the first match at ***** the second match at ****1/2 and the Homecomming at **** also they had a match in 06 on raw i think i need to re watch, would i be insane to bump the vengeance match up to *****?


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Yes
You're also insane to have the first match at ***** lol, some people on here have it at *** 1/4 or less. I have it at **** 3/4 and that's considered high to some


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

Attitude Era DVD was pretty shit IMO, it felt like 20 mins of kissing DX's ass and then a brief look at some of the other characters in the era.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWE Smackdown 12/30/2005 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton ****1/4

FUCK this was good, and as soon as i'm done watching the rest of '00 I'm skipping all the way to 2005/2006 :mark:


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Cleavage said:


> WWE Smackdown 12/30/2005 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton ****1/4
> 
> FUCK this was good, and as soon as i'm done watching the rest of '00 I'm skipping all the way to 2005/2006 :mark:


Is that the one when Orton helped Booker T out during the Best of 7 Series? And Booker said he would return the favour and as I recall, he never did....


----------



## Groovemachine (Apr 3, 2008)

This may very well have been discussed previously here but I can't seem to find it, so just wanted to ask if anyone's seen the Best of Clash of a Champions DVD? Any good? Saw a really good deal for it for Cyber Monday, trying to decide whether to go for the Clash DVD or the Best of Starrcade which looks awesome. Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The Attitude Era was one of the most underwhelming documentaries they have ever done. Mainly because of the expectations and the fact that there's so much footage and material to talk about in the greatest and most successful period of all time. It was basically random segments one after another with wrestlers talking about them. And most of the interviews with the top stars were from other DVDs. Completely lazy and missed almost everything. Good things were the people talking about it like Simmons, Henry, Road Dogg etc, and the only thing I felt that they really presented well was how fun it was to the roster who lived like rock starts along with the competitive environment in the locker room compared to today. Showing the criticism from the PC media with Henry segment was part of some article that was made on the WWF in early 1999. Henry was so awesome in that character. They did some random 30 seconds Rock mention on the entire doc with interview from his Journey doc. Horrible and it felt like a DX campaign at times. It was fun to watch and remember but it was nothing compared to what they could have done. Less than an hour? There are other DVDs that did a better job on the era than this. Fun but mostly disappointing.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Here's the _Legends Of Wrestling_ episode on "The History Of Raw" that Cal and I were discussing in here about a week ago.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Where do y'all rank Christian's 2009 among the best WWE years? If you stick to one year per wrestler I'm seriously starting to think it's top 10.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Christian's 2009 was amazing, and WWECW was by far the best brand in WWE, even better than SmackDown '09. His matches with Swagger, Dreamer, Ryder, Jericho, Tatsu, Regal and Big Zeke provided a shitload of quality wrestling, and a ton of fun, with the Regal match from Sheffield being the pinnacle. But they slapped him in the face hard for not letting him retire the title, that title change on the last SyFy show was completely useless.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> Here's the _Legends Of Wrestling_ episode on "The History Of Raw" that Cal and I were discussing in here about a week ago.


Thanks mate, is that the full episode (thought it was nearly 2 hours)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Here's the _Legends Of Wrestling_ episode on "The History Of Raw" that Cal and I were discussing in here about a week ago.


:mark:

Hell yes. Cheers on posting it.

Got to throw in my echo about Christian during 2009. I've put that year over more than I have Ric Flair in '89 & Hiroshi Tanahashi in his last 5 years, it seems. It is _that_ stellar.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Agreed on all fronts about Christian's 2009, one of the greatest pure years in WWE history based on purely good/great matches consistently. Christian could make anybody look fantastic, as seen by his matches with Zeke. 

The best part of his 2009 was that incredible match with swagger on 2/25/09 and the aforementioned regal match. WWECW was a goldmine for great matches on a consistent basis.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The nearly 2 hours of it was probably with all the footage and shit they throw in, as my download is almost 2 hours long.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> WWE Smackdown 12/30/2005 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton ****1/4
> 
> FUCK this was good, and as soon as i'm done watching the rest of '00 I'm skipping all the way to 2005/2006 :mark:


I have not seen that match, but I've seen the 13/01/06 and 27/01/06 matches they've had during that period. Both were excellent, specially the No Holds Barred one.

And 2005 has been awesome for me to this point in July. The draft has refreshed things although it sucks that Muhammad Hassan was sacrificed for that stupid "terrorist" angle they pulled with The Undertaker. So much potential and awesome mic worker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck TLC PPV, its almost RUMBLE season.

*1988 Royal Rumble*

Not a PPV, instead a TV special on the USA Network.

Match 1 - Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - There is a women in the front row with a megaphone screaming abuse at Rude all throughout the match, with the "Rudey Rudey Rudey" chant being my favourite. Nice arm work from Steamboat, Rude sells very well, especially once he regains control of the match and tries to pose but can't raise his left arm. He attempts to pose a couple of times before he is able to do it. Match ends with a DQ after Rude pulls the referee in front of Steamboat who is coming off the ropes with a cross body. Rude gets Steamboat in the Rude Awakening submission hold and believes he wins when the bell rings, and even leaves the ring believing he has won until they finally announce that he got DQ'd. Good lengthy match between the two, though I can see people not enjoying it as much as me because it is a little slow, but never dull imo. ***1/4.

Dino Bravo attempts to break a world record with a Bench Press of 715lb. He starts off at 415, then goes to 505, 555, 595, 655 and does it easily. Then he gets to the record weight of 715lb and does it with help from Jesse Ventura who was his spotter. Frenchy, Bravo's manager just saying shit in French all the time was somewhat amusing, but this segment lasted 17 minutes. The same amount of time as the Steamboat/Rude match. It was terrible. Good job this wasn't a PPV because people would have probably demanded a refund.

Match 2 - Glamour Girls Vs Jumping Bomb Angels - 2 out of 3 falls - LMAO McMahon and Ventura don't even know the names of the Jumping Bomb Angels from Japan. They call them "Red and Pink" for most of the match because of the colour of their outfits. Gotta love when the announcers don't even know the names of the competitors in a match. Really gets you into it... That being said, this match is genuinely really good. I'd put it as a top 5 women's match in WWF/E history. It's THAT good. Well ok, even having it as a top 5 women's match in WWF/E isn't saying too much because outside of some matches involving Trish, Lita and Mickie, the division has sucked for the better part of forever. Women's tag titles are on the line here too. No idea when women's title tiles came about or where they went. Kinda like the actual women's title. Sometimes it would show up, sometimes it would disappear for a decade. Shame, because if they could have found more teams like these two, they could have had a really good division. Ah well, I'll just be happy that we got this. Nice change from Rude/Steamboat's slower match, with both teams running around and jumping around etc. Plus the crowd needed something to get them going again after 17 minutes of Dino Bravo weightlifting. Plenty of great moves in this match too, including a lot of things I've rarely ever seen since, by women OR men. Love 2 out of 3 tag matches. Should happen more... but then again I don't want to see the majority of tag teams go 1 fall these days. This gets 15 minutes, so again another lengthy match. Something that not only do we never get with diva matches nowadays, but something I don't think I'd WANT to see these days. ***1/4.

Another segment now to break up the matches, and it's a contract signing between Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant for their WM 3 rematch that will take place on Feb 5th (Saturday Night's Main Event? I forget, and they NEVER actually mention the name of the show, just the date lol). Gotta say, this might be one of the better contract signings ever... and neither man even cut a promo on each other. You have Jack Tunney (LMFAO at Tunney, what a fucking waste of space he is) making sure both men sign the contract, Mean Gene giving running commentary in the ring and Ted DiBiase mocking Hogan and saying how he's gonna buy the title. Andre is an absolute fucking BOSS throughout this whole thing too. He comes out first and while waiting for Hogan to come out, just leans on the ropes and starts bouncing on them, hands in his pockets looking like the coolest guy ever. Then Hogan comes into the ring, sits down and waits for Andre, meanwhile Andre just keeps on bouncing on DEM ROPES. Finally he sits down, Hogan signs, and Andre... takes his time and reads the entire thing while DiBiase taunts Hogan who really puts Andre over as the biggest threat ever by looking pretty terrified that he's actually signed to face him again. Andre signs, and smashes Hogan's head into the table for good measure. Yeah, really enjoyed this tbh. Far better than the "Vince McMahon Masturbation Weight Lifting Segment" from before. Seriously, it probably lasted that long before Vince was jerking off to it.

Match 3 - 20 Man Royal Rumble Match - The first RR match! Sort of. They did a tryout of sorts on a house show the year before I believe, and it absolutely BOMBED, so they changed and tweaked some shit before putting the match on TV. I'd assume they tried the newer format out on a house show too... but yeah, who knows. One Man Gang was the winner of the 1987 Royal Rumble Match! Bret Hart and Tito Santana are #1 and #2. Oh man, there's a kid on camera while THE FINK runs down the rules of the match, and he looks like he's going to legit CRY out of confusion. Awesome. The match isn't a classic Rumble, but it's certainly fun. Starts off pretty good with talent like the Hart Foundation, Harley Race, Jake Roberts, Tito Santana, Butch Reed... then starts to go downhill with the likes of Danny Dangerous, One Man Gang, Sam Houston, Nikolai Volkoff and others. Good job this only lasted half an hour and was only 20 guys. Imagine another 10 jobbers and another 30 minutes! **3/4.

Hogan promo! LMFAO at Hogan ripping off his shirt as he's saying "When I think about you Andre". Dirty Hogan! Bad Hogan! As bad as their matches together were, dammit, the build up and promos and whatnot we SO FUCKING GOOOOOOD. Makes me want to watch them even though I KNOW they suck.

Match 4 - The Islanders Vs The Young Stallions - 2 out of 3 falls - Urgh. Paul fucking Roma. I seriously despise him. He's the Chavo Guerrero Jr of the 80's/early 90's. Except Roma was a Four Horseman. Chavo remained an absolute nobody. Jim Powers is also a nobody. The Islanders are Haku (aka the toughest bastard ever) and Tama, one of the lesser known/remembered Samoan wrestlers. He's actually the brother of Umaga and Rikishi. Remember how I mentioned earlier about not wanting to see current teams in 2 out of 3 falls matches because they suck? Well the same can be said for this match. It's terrible and aside from Haku, everyone in it fucking sucks. At least it's the shortest match on the card, though still only 1 minute less than the women's tag match which is infinitely better. Roma screws up a hip toss/arm drag move (not entirely sure what was supposed to happen), and Haku literally just powers him fucking over and slams him anyway. Nobody botches on Haku's watch! Roma gets counted out for... first fall? Second fall? I don't remember nor care. Anyway, Ventura always mocks referees about not being able to count past 3, so when the ref counts to 10 for a countout... Ventura claims he used his toes to go that far. I'm not sure Jesse realises how many FINGERS we have!

Oh man, this is classic. They actually STOP the tag match and have an interview with Andre and Ted DiBiase! You can see The Islanders in the ring in the background just waiting! That's how fucking shitty the tag match is. They literally need to take a break in between so we can listen to Andre attempting a promo!

So we're back for the second fall it seems... with Roma and Powers returning from the back! They seriously went backstage between falls? LOL. Roma is a retard. He has a bad knee that he injured when getting thrown out of the ring for the countout finish... so what does he do to block a splash? Gets his knees up. HUR DUH I PAUL ROMA I FOR HORSEYMAN. JESSE VENTURA SAY I NEED USE TOES TU COUNT TU FOR. Roma submits because his knee is fucked, and The Islanders win this one 2 straight falls. *1/4.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Thoughts on the WWF 01/11/94 Bret Hart/Owen Hart vs. Scott Steiner/Rick Steiner match


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Picked up the Elimination Chamber set and Best Cage Matches set today for £7 each. Bargain. For any UK people, Head, a music/movie store has a bunch of WWE DVD's going for £7. Those 2, Orton's DVD, Cena's DVD, Rey's DVD, Savage's DVD, History of the WHC, Austin's DVD, Rock's DVD, Hardy's DVD, Best of Raw, Best of SD, Mania's 25 through 28 and the list goes on. A real good bargain if you have one in your area. No blu-rays though which sucks. Ah well. I'll start working my way through these when I get to the end of 2004.....eventually lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Picked up the Elimination Chamber set and Best Cage Matches set today for £7 each. Bargain. For any UK people, Head, a music/movie store has a bunch of WWE DVD's going for £7. Those 2, Orton's DVD, Cena's DVD, Rey's DVD, Savage's DVD, History of the WHC, Austin's DVD, Rock's DVD, Hardy's DVD, Best of Raw, Best of SD, Mania's 25 through 28 and the list goes on. A real good bargain if you have one in your area. No blu-rays though which sucks. Ah well. *I'll start working my way through these when I get to the end of 2004*.....eventually lol.


Are you watching all the shows or just PPVs? In either case, how far have you come now? Last I saw you talking about Judgment Day and the Eddie/JBL match.

----------------

Just got done with 14/07/05 Smackdown and since Benoit was left off the show, I went to give his Velocity classic with Regal from that week another watch. Still a great match with some of the awesomest mat-wrestling ever! ****, would have been more had they gotten a bit more time.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Are you watching all the shows or just PPVs? In either case, how far have you come now? Last I saw you talking about Judgment Day and the Eddie/JBL match.


Just PPV's and I'm still there lol. Just haven't had the time and will be limited for time heading into Xmas. I will eventually get through the year though lol. I WILL!


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

really? ***** for angle michaels 1 is too high?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

tboneangle said:


> really? ***** for angle michaels 1 is too high?



Yes. :kurt


...Now if you wanna talk about Taker-Angle from NWO 06 and give it the full ***** ..... DAT'S DAT SHIET I DOOO LIKE :jordan2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

tboneangle said:


> really? ***** for angle michaels 1 is too high?


Mr Angle isn't very popular around these parts lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Cleavage said:


> Thoughts on the WWF 01/11/94 Bret Hart/Owen Hart vs. Scott Steiner/Rick Steiner match


I'm a big fan of this match. They featured a very good mixed of wrestling with mat-work and suplexes but also some intense brawling before it was all said and done. You can see the progression in intensity in the match as it progresses from what was supposed to be sort of an "exhibition" of wrestling skill to upping the physicality a bunch. Simple story of two face teams out to fight to not for hate but from competitiveness.


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

Ordered blu rays of Elimination Chamber 2011 on Thursday and Over the Limit 2011 today using the black friday and cyber monday codes. I loved the Elimination Chamber ppv from top to bottom. OTL I got mainly to have the Orton/Christian match in HD and the blu exclusives. Pretty happy to get a couple of blu ray ppvs for about ten bucks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK. YOU. WWE.

You have a roster with all of these athletic guys that could produce a ****+ match with Punk, and you give us another SHITTY RYBACK MAIN EVENT ?!?!?!? I have optimism that Punk can atleast make it watchable like HIAC, but if PUNK can only make something watchable, than you must be REEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYY bad. I mean, they're not even ATTEMPTING to give us any drama heading into the Rumble. Should have been the final blowoff to Punk/Cena and nothing else.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

The Angle Taker match i have at 5. That's crazy cuz when we did the official Decade awards in 2010 angle won WOTD


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I wonder if we'd get the same result again if there was another poll. I don't remember, who were the choices for Wrestler Of The Decade 2000-2009? Kurt, Trips, Cena, Styles, Michaels...?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not that I necessarily agree with it , but if Kurt had to stay with the WWE and was still with them today , he'd be marketed as perhaps a top 5 performer ever by the WWE , up there with WWE's complete cock-sucking of Shawn Michaels's legacy, and I'm a big Shawn fan actually (in my top 10 for sure, but greatest ever ? Doesn't touch FLAIR ) .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching Rock/Austin from WM 17 (not for the first time), on the History of the WWE Championship DVD, which is on Netflix. 

The last 10-15 minutes of that match are just unbelievable. All those kickouts, the crowd is hot, JR's marking out the whole time, Heyman's being the GOAT on commentary as well. From the time Austin hooked in the Million Dollar Dream to the end, I was one the edge of my seat, and I've seen the match before. 

Just incredible.


----------



## Heterodox (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm selling my WWE DVD collection. Info is in my sig. Let me know if you're interested. Not selling them for much either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> FUCK. YOU. WWE.
> 
> You have a roster with all of these athletic guys that could produce a ****+ match with Punk, and you give us another SHITTY RYBACK MAIN EVENT ?!?!?!? I have optimism that Punk can atleast make it watchable like HIAC, but if PUNK can only make something watchable, than you must be REEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYY bad. I mean, they're not even ATTEMPTING to give us any drama heading into the Rumble. Should have been the final blowoff to Punk/Cena and nothing else.


Meh. Punk will win and then go do the stuff with Rocky. I'm not one to complain. Punk is gonna retain. That's all that matters to me.

Punker will take some bumps. Make things as best as they can be. You know, Best in the World type quality.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Worst year for the company (match-wise) ?

For me, I'd have to say it's either 98 or 99. I can't think of 5 **** matches from 1999 , and I can't think of that many great matches from 98 either. My MOTY for 98 is Taker-Shawn from the Rumble, while my 99 MOTY would just so happen to be.... I have no idea. It's so pitiful it's actually insane. I'd have to come out and say either Rock-Foley from the Rumble, or potentially Austin-Taker from Fully Loaded. 

However the "ratings" (I feel dirty whenever I use that word) were the highest ever at this point. My question is, why? Are causal wrestling fans and a huge majority of so called "smart" fans just attracted to really dumb shit ? I watch wrestling for great storytelling in the ring most of the time, so how did everybody here feel when a whole bunch of dumb shit was going on in 99 while the matches were terrible ?

Again, ratings have no bearing on what is good and what is bad as a fan. The NWO got great ratings, and the NWO sucked balls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1999 MOTY for me is the Hardys vs Edge & Christian Ladder Match from No Mercy '99. ****1/2.

Ironically enough I know some people loved Austin vs Triple H from that same PPV and rank it high too. I don't.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

.... I rank Austin-Trips high :hhh

I get what you're saying too. If Punk somehow managed to pull a **** 1/2+* match out of the incredibly shitty Ryback , he would probably move up a spot in my GOAT rankings and I'm not joking at all. Khali is a better worker than Ryback. You know it's sad when the only thing close to a good match that Ryback has had is his ***** match with Punk at HIAC which everybody hates besides me anyways. 

HE'S HORRIBLE !


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Worst year for the company (match-wise) ?
> 
> For me, I'd have to say it's either 98 or 99. I can't think of 5 **** matches from 1999 , and I can't think of that many great matches from 98 either. My MOTY for 98 is Taker-Shawn from the Rumble, while my 99 MOTY would just so happen to be.... I have no idea. It's so pitiful it's actually insane. I'd have to come out and say either Rock-Foley from the Rumble, or potentially Austin-Taker from Fully Loaded.
> 
> ...


This is essentially why I don't look back at the Attitude Era and don't think of how"amazing" it was. It was a fun time certainly but whenever I see the year 1998 or 1999 attached to a match I rarely ever get excited. Random great ones that pop in my head are Trips/Rock Ladder Match from SSlam '98 and... well I'm not coming up with anything else honestly. haha

EDIT: Rock/Austin & T.I.T. Ladder Match of course.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Love the No Mercy Ladder Match. Other top matches for me from 1999 - Rock/Mankind Rumble, Rock/Austin Backlash, Taker/Austin Fully Loaded, RVD/Lynn Living Dangerously, and Bret/Benoit Owen Tribute. HHH/Rock had an extremely good Cage Match at the Rebellion PPV too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bret/Benoit and Rock/Foley I Quit are both ****1/2 for me.

Two random ratings:
Rey Mysterio vs Super Crazy - SD 21/7/05 (***1/4)
Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit - SD 21/7/05 (***1/2)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't have a single WWF match from 98-99 above ***** 1/4*.

Seriously. After BB97, as far as I'm concerned the next ***** 1/2+* match was when the RR 00 match between HHH and Foley happened. Then all of 2000 happened, which happens to be one of the best if not THE best year(s) in company history.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Khali is a better worker than Ryback.


:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> .... I rank Austin-Trips high :hhh
> 
> I get what you're saying too. If Punk somehow managed to pull a **** 1/2+* match out of the incredibly shitty Ryback , he would probably move up a spot in my GOAT rankings and I'm not joking at all. Khali is a better worker than Ryback. You know it's sad when the only thing close to a good match that Ryback has had is his ***** match with Punk at HIAC which everybody hates besides me anyways.
> 
> HE'S HORRIBLE !


I wouldn't claim Khali is better. Ryback is merely green in these situations. Much like Goldberg. We'll have to see where Punk can make the match go. We all know something involving The Shield is in tow, too.



Clique said:


> Love the No Mercy Ladder Match. Other top matches for me from 1999 - Rock/Mankind Rumble, Rock/Austin Backlash, Taker/Austin Fully Loaded, RVD/Lynn Living Dangerously, and Bret/Benoit Owen Tribute. HHH/Rock had an extremely good Cage Match at the Rebellion PPV too.


RVD vs Lynn was at 5 stars when I watched it a year ago. I'm being serious. I loved it THAT much :lol

Forgot to name Austin vs Rock from Backlash. Great match. My second match from them favorite behind WrestleMania 19.

Undertaker vs Austin first blood is (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay, maybe I was a little harsh with the whole "Khali" thing, but think again ! The guy will be in 3 PPV main events straight with some of the greatest workers of all time (Punk and Cena) and he still can't produce fuck all. The guy has been wrestling for like EIGHT YEARS at this point ! Plus Khali has these few matches ;

vs Cena (JD 07, ONS 07)
vs HHH (SS 08)
vs Mysterio vs Batista (UNF 07)

All ***** matches that are just as good as anything Ryback has done. Seriously.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena/Khali is tolerable enough, iirc. Don't like the other two. If I had to think of a Khali match that I thought was shockingly "good", then I would mention his match vs Undertaker Last Man Standing on Smackdown in 2006.

Ryback has only worked so many matches during the time he appeared on Tough Enough - now though. Don't think he was signed right away either. Point being he's green. When you only squash guys in 2-3 matches you aren't gonna know many tools in a match. Especially when you're thrust in a match that would go 10+ minutes. He might never improve past this. He's a solid enough monster at least. I'll give him that. And he can walk. Khali can't even do that due to his enormous size.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ryback is fine in the ring. He's not setting the world on fire or anything, but he does what he is meant to do well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not one of those people that no matter what Ryback does in his career is going to say "OMG HE SUXZZZZZZZZZZ" ...... I legitimately hope the guy becomes a great worker, really. We'll see if Punk can get another good match out of him come TLC , and how he reacts when he isn't in there with one of the all-time greats.

The only Ryback match I really wanna see at this point would be Ryback vs Henry. Or Henry vs anybody for that matter.... BEAT EM UP BEAT EM UP BREAK HIS NECK BREAK HIS NECK !

:vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I see appeal with Big Show vs Ryback. Henry vs Ryback would work for me. Only if Henry wasn't squashed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*The Great American Bash 2005:*

MNM vs Road Warrior Animal/Heidenreich - **1/2
- Heidenreich being paired with Animal to recreate the LOD was rather random. They win the tag titles here in some kind of tribute to Hawk two years after his death. The match is nothing special and shorter than the tag title defenses tend to be. The Doomsday Device looked great here.

Booker T vs Christian - ***1/4
- Not a bad match but nothing great either. Just decent and it's kinda there. Have no idea why Christian was never put to better use as he gets cheered here despite being the heel. Booker gets his return victory here after getting squashed two weeks before the PPV.

Orlando Jordan vs Chris Benoit - ***
- Nothing memorable and nothing bad once again. Benoit jobs after walking into the exposed turnbuckle but he does his best to carry this into passable. At least they have a real match here as opposed to the 25 second follow-ups from SummerSlam onwards.

The Undertaker vs Muhammad Hassan - ***1/4
- This one was kinda funny to me. All the "sympathizers" constantly running around the ring crack me up (hell, I'm laughing as I type this) with the best part being Undertaker's face when he's being choked out by that wire behind referee's back. But looking away from that, the match itself is decent and Muhammad doesn't look overly weak even though a chokeslam is all it takes to pin him. Then post-match, Undertaker goes into superman mode and destroys all the "sympathizers" lmao) by himself and officially kills Muhammad Hassan's character with a Last Ride through the stage. The end result is bittersweet. On one hand, Orton restarts the Taker feud while on the other one, Muhammad's character officially ends here which sucks because he had so much potential. The introduction of these skimask guys was so unnecessary. Character was going places but they ruined it with that segment where they turned him into a terrorist after months of complaining about being wrongly labeled just that because of his background.

The Mexicools vs bWo - **
- I don't know what to think of this. Very short and uninteresting. I can't take the bWo seriously as a cheap nWo knock-off but I also like the Mexicools from what little I see here. Although I've heard that this is far from the best they have to offer as wrestlers and WWE limited them.

Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero - ***1/4
- I'm disappointed because as soon as family was brought into this and the whole "secret", it ruined a pretty good feud and turned it into stupid drama. As result of this, the match suffers because the camera and Eddie are more concerned about Dominick than the match itself. The ring action is good as you've come to expect from these two but the story is hard to get into and distracting because it disrupts the flow of the match constantly. Still above average as a match but the Judgment Day and Smackdown matches are far better.

Melina vs Torrie Wilson (Bra and Panties) - *
- ...

Batista vs JBL - **1/4
- Ugh, what a boring match. It's just hard to get into because the speed is slow and it feels so half-assed. Even when there's drama following a ref bump, I really couldn't get excited about this match at all. Disappointing main event and another DQ victory so I can watch the Smackdown episodes to hear JBL run his mouth for 10 minutes just to say one thing. People always pick on Triple H for rambling non-stop just to get one point across but JBL is almost as bad. He just keeps saying the same thing and EVERY FUCKING WEEK, he gets about 10 minutes of promo time or some lengthy backstage segment. FFS, keep him away from a microphone just once. He's not bad by a long shot, but he bores me because he always says the same thing, but not only that - he takes several minutes to get a simple point across.

*Overall:* **1/2 out of ***** (A mixed bag. Some stuff are good while others are bad. Nothing extraordinary from the match card and it feels like a mere story advancer for SummerSlam outside of the Taker/Hassan match.)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

X2 if Ryback Henry lasted 2 minutes with generic Ryback offense + Signature moves + finisher I would be pretty pissed. If they let Henry throw Ryback around for a little bit, show us that Ryback is indeed human , could make for a potentially good story. I'm pretty convinced we'll get Ryback-Show at some point in the next year for sure.

It just seems as if Ryback is being groomed to be the #2-3 guy in the company for the future, and I'm not sure if that's such a wise decision at this point TBH. I'm a believer in the idea that all big names and world champions should be atleast above average workers. That's why I can't stand the likes of MIZ and KHALI winning world titles at some point (well... Miz... The WHC isn't as important anymore, but it's definitely restorable).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1999 is definitely the worst in-ring year in WWE history.

I don't see why Khali > Ryback is funny or unreasonable at all. I really don't see what makes Ryback so much better. Both are awful so it's not worth putting too much thought into, but I'm drawing a blank at anything Ryback actually does terribly well. He's all right in squashes I guess. But the HIAC match with Punk sucked shit and that was still a Punk carry. The three-way at Series sucked shit as well. People were going on about these good 'actual' Ryback matches in the Ryback v Goldberg thread that I might have missed so if anyone has any then BRING 'EM OUT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> *The Great American Bash 2005:*
> 
> Orlando Jordan vs Chris Benoit - ***
> - Nothing memorable and nothing bad once again. Benoit jobs after walking into the exposed turnbuckle but he does his best to carry this into passable. At least they have a real match here as opposed to the 25 second follow-ups from SummerSlam onwards.
> ...


Best Orlando Jordan match ever.

Not familar with the bWo from the ECW days, eh? Yeah, no doubt that match could have been better if it had longer than 5 minutes.

Main event is a flat out DUD. One of the worst matches I've ever seen be chosen to end a PPV.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> X2 if Ryback Henry lasted 2 minutes with generic Ryback offense + Signature moves + finisher I would be pretty pissed. If they let Henry throw Ryback around for a little bit, show us that Ryback is indeed human , could make for a potentially good story. I'm pretty convinced we'll get Ryback-Show at some point in the next year for sure.
> 
> It just seems as if Ryback is being groomed to be the #2-3 guy in the company for the future, and I'm not sure if that's such a wise decision at this point TBH. I'm a believer in the idea that all big names and world champions should be atleast above average workers. That's why I can't stand the likes of MIZ and KHALI winning world titles at some point (well... Miz... The WHC isn't as important anymore, but it's definitely restorable).


Well, the whole Goldberg comparison is on point. You might not feel he's a good fit for being groomed like he is, but the company does seeing how he's over and can possibly sell merch. Much like Goldberg during his prime in WCW.

Speaking of 1999 WWF being weak in the ring - all you have to say is Survivor Series '99. Far and away the worst of the year. How many shite matches can be piled onto a single show? Watch that event and you'll get your answer.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't see why Khali > Ryback is funny or unreasonable at all. I really don't see what makes Ryback so much better. Both are awful so it's not worth putting too much thought into, but I'm drawing a blank at anything Ryback actually does terribly well. He's all right in squashes I guess. But the HIAC match with Punk sucked shit and that was still a Punk carry. The three-way at Series sucked shit as well. *People were going on about these good 'actual' Ryback matches in the Ryback v Goldberg thread that I might have missed so if anyone has any then BRING 'EM OUT.*


He doesn't have any. He just looks somewhat impressive running through people. I guess that's a great function for his character and his ability. You won't get a mat classic out of him but he was never built for that. There of course have been big guys who upped their game in the in-ring department to become good main event workers i.e. Undertaker, Batista, Show, and Henry. Only time will tell if Ryback can adjust in that way.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Survivor Series 98 was worse IMO. One of the worst PPVS ever actually , what a pile of shit from start to finish :lol

GAB 2005 is a underrated show for me actually. Eddie and Rey go out there and steal the show , well..... Actually it's only Eddie. If you were going to show me ONE heel-Eddie match that shows exactly EVERYTHING that his character is about, I might go with that one. All around fantastic and although it's a step below JD and SD 05 , it's a COLOSSAL step up from SS and WM. Benoit-Jordan is great just to see Benoit drag a pretty good match out of a piece of trash like Jordan. Batista-JBL is definitely salvageable for them , and I loved the blow-off match at SS 05 as a personal favorite for some reason. Short, but intense and a hell of alot of fun for sure.

Don't worry, I still stand on the fact that Ryback is the worst main event wrestler I've seen in my life , although I'm hoping that might change in the forseeable future. I honestly can't talk about Ryback anymore as it makes me brain hurt why he's gotten three PPV main events in a row, so I'm going to switch the subject. Ordered every single Wrestlemania (that I don't have... so like almost all of them, including the complete anthology) and about 10-15 other DVDs for Christmas, plus when I get home on Friday I have a backload of DVDs to watch that include the following ;

- Finishing the BAD Top 50 Finishers DVD
- NWO : The Revolution (looking forward to literally one match)
- RVD : One of a Kind (Excited)
- The Triumph and Tragedy of WCCW (Excited)
- Legends of Wrestling : Jerry Lawler and Junkyard Dog (have no idea about this)
- Hall of Fame 2004
- ECW Unreleased Vol 1
- The Road Warriors
- Superstar Collection : Shawn Michaels 

Should hold me over till Christmas :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GAB '05 is merely "there" for me. I liked Eddie's work, the Benoit/Jordan match & Undertaker killing terrorists. That's really about it. Rest blends together or , in the case of the main event, is horrendous. Summerslam '05 rematch with Batista/JBL is fun and a far better attempt by both men. Then, they have the 3rd and final match on Smackdown, Texas Bullrope, which sucked hard too. The shorter the matches - the better. No Mercy '08 is part of that.

Love that RVD set. That's how I saw RVD vs Lynn from Living Dangerous '99. :mark:

Thinking of popping in a WWE PPV atm. Any suggestions on what I should go with from the list:

Royal Rumble 2006
No Way Out 2006
Cyber Sunday 2006
Night of Champions 2009
Vengeance 2011

Have a feeling NWO '06 might be the favorite here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No Way Out 2006 is the best of the bunch *BUT* I would recommend the Rumble for the simple reason that it's almost rumble season and the show is just insanely fun regardless with Trips and Rey putting together a great performance for an hour straight. The backstage segments are completely golden as well.

Plus you get to see HENRY-ANGLE with the awesome Undertaker on a white horse ending :kurt


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I haven't watched it since the night it aired on PPV. I can see if Henry/Angle is as bad as I remember it being. Plus, with me being the Gregory Helms fans that I am, I can mark out all over again to him winning the Cruiserweight Championship.

One vote for Rumble. (idk when I'll choose to watch. Probably following this episode of Arrested Development. yay for random info)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Man I drop random info ALL THE FUCKING TIME in this thread, so don't even worry about it. At some point we might be able to film "The personal lives of The Official DVD/Match/Show discussion thread" where we're all put in a house together for three months. At first we get along but eventually... Eventually WE TEAR EACH OTHER APART ! 

:lol Seriously , that would be fucking awesome. Everyday we watch a random PPV and rate all the matches. Our markdom would destroy us all !


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's gonna make the WWE network finally get launched. Take a look into the lives of superfans who love to discuss matches and PPVs. It'll eventually be so big that it will need a TV ratings thread on this place for people to claim one of us doesn't draw.

Seeing that we're the only two occupying this thread atm...Rumble '06 wins! 

Seriously excited now that I realized I haven't seen this since _before_ I posted on this site.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well shit, I was gonna vote for Vengeance 2011...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't sleep. I'll probably pull an all nighter and try to plow through these one by one. Only seen Cena vs Del Rio from Vengeance so that's another one I'm really needing to check out. High Energy II (Air Boom) vs Perfect Americans match being the main draw.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Best Orlando Jordan match ever.
> 
> Not familar with the bWo from the ECW days, eh? Yeah, no doubt that match could have been better if it had longer than 5 minutes.
> 
> Main event is a flat out DUD. One of the worst matches I've ever seen be chosen to end a PPV.


I wouldn't be surprised because everything else OJ has had has been complete shit and after this match, Benoit keeps squashing him in under 1 minute.

I don't know much about the original ECW, so I can't say I am.

And yes, that main event was a snoozefest. TGAB is on some kind of streak with bad main events it seems. 04 with that horrible Taker/Dudleyz angle and eventual match while 05 has this terrible Batista/JBL main event.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

98/99 Match quality might not have been amazing but the product quite clearly was must see television for millions of people, far more so than the '10/10 classics' we get from Drew McIntyre and Dolph Ziggler on Superstars but the majority don't give a fuck because their bland. 

2000 is that perfect balance no question but I think the vast majority would take a dip in match quality if we got entertaining storylines which engaged us and kept us intrigued for months. Survivor Series 1998 storyline and matches I'd take ALL FUCKING DAY over AJ/Cena/Dolph and the matches (which will be better) between Cena and Dolph.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Not sure why all the hate about Survivor Series 98. Granted, most of the matches were tedious and it felt rushed, but there were some great angle progression mark out moments. The Shane McMahon heel turn, the Big Boss Man failing three times, Mankind seemingly well on his way to victory, and the moment that _nobody_ saw coming, the double cross at the end with The Rock turning heel. Fucking genius. 

PPV Rating (For the match quality): **1/2
PPV Rating (For entertainment): ****

:russo "That's the way I tell em!"


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Personally, I hate TGAB 2006 probably more than 2005 simple because of the fact that nothing really stands out to me on that show like the other two. In 2005 we got the AWESOME Guerrero-Mysterio match where Guerrero steals the fucking show , whereas in 2006 we have a bunch of MEH matches with a pretty great Finlay-Regal match to boot. I just REALLY love that Guerrero-Mysterio match, like.. ALOT. 

When you get to their Summerslam match you'll be wishing you never watched it. Really don't like that match AT ALL, even more than my disdain for their Wrestlemania XXI match. Fuck it, for the time being I'ma throw out my Summerslam 2005 STARZ :

OJ vs Benoit : *N/A (Too Awesome For STARZ)*
Hardy vs Edge : ***** (Such a fucking stiff match. Looks like 90 percent shoot honestly)
Mysterio vs Guerrero (Ladder) : *** 1/2*
Angle vs Eugene : **** (Eugene gets destroyed, what else could you ask for?)
Orton vs Taker : ****** (MOTN)
Cena vs Jericho : *****
Batista vs JBL (Streetfight) : *****
Hogan vs HBK : **** 1/4*

Such a fun show, besides the ladder match which legitimately makes me pissed from time to time, dead serious. OJ and Benoit get the crowd electrified , Hardy and Edge beat the fucking TAR out of one another in the stiffest WWE match you might ever see, Eugene gets destroyed by Kurt Angle, Taker-Orton steal the show ONCE AGAIN, we have two fun world title matches, and of course the main event is 8483653465 different kinds of awesome. Shawn's bumping in the match is so over-the-top and awesome that it's worth the price of admission alone. This show is never boring, and it has everything you'd look for in a FUN show, complete with one of the biggest main events ever.

*7.5/10*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SS 05 is awesome. I'm like 4 shows away from it now. Already seen nearly every match but I will rewatch just because I can and to give it a proper review.

I had Cena/Jericho at ****1/4 last time, wonder if it'll hold up. I also expect to enjoy Orton/Taker II even more this time in a high quality file!

And Eugene getting destroyed warms my heart, just finished the Raw where he returned and I was like "Oh no". Absolutely despise the gimmick. Was fun for a while then got old and when they put the focus on him over the World Champion, it was a disgrace.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

A character like Eugene could be good in small doses. It's like Santino in a way ; keep him lower on the card for the fans to enjoy and it'll all be okay , make him the focus of shows and winning in main events ? Fucking pure bullshit. Plus, when Eugene first got to the E' , Nick Dinsmore was actually allowed to WRESTLE from time to time, as opposed to the post HUNTER feud where he just did finishers and acted retarded for 99 percent of the time.

Yeah it's okay , pretty much EVERYBODY has the Cena-Jericho series over me, I was never a big fan of their chemistry and thought it was alot like Sheamus-Del Rio ; capable of putting out good matches that I don't really care about whatsoever, mostly due to the fact that Jericho NEVER won so there was no drama from the threat of him winning.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, it started off okay for me when he was feuding with Coach and them. Then they started that bullshit with Triple H being his "friend" and it got frustrating because the World Champion (Benoit) got zero build for his feud with Kane and played SIDE-KICK to Eugene to the point where his Ironman match with Hunter (as well as Vengeance) became an afterthought to Eugene's interference.

Seriously, for the people that whine about Punk playing second-fiddle to Cena's feuds, at least he did not become the whipping boy for a retard! To make it feel like it's present, I'm also reading this message board's archive with posts about what took place all the way back to 2002 and going through the 05 threads, it puts things into perspective for me so I know about releases and such that takes place. I missed out on it quite a few times when going through 03 and 04. So many guys just disappeared from the shows and I had no idea it was because of a release. (Zach Gowen, Brian Kendrick, Kenzo Sazuki, A-Train, Test etc)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Always struggle to keep track of my top wrestling documentaries, but after tonight I have a new addition to my top 5:

1. The Last of Nigel McGuinness
2. Pick Your Poison: The Jake Roberts Story
3. Best in the World: CM Punk
4. The Rise + Fall of ECW
5. The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA

Seriously, the Nigel documentary is INCREDIBLE. I'm not sure how its going to be distributed to those who didn't pledge money on his kickstarter, but if you have the opportunity to buy it when its officially out; GET IT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Any thoughts on JBL vs Undertaker (SD 28/7/2005)? I prefer it to their No DQ match the month before as well as their 2004 matches. Not sure if I should give it ***3/4 or ****. This time, Orton's interference also makes sense since they start feuding right after unlike the No DQ where he cost Taker the match and stopped showing up for over a month.

The very same SD also has a very good tag match with Benoit/Booker T vs Christian/Orlando Jordan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I honestly didn't know they had another match on TV in 05 lol. I wanna see it now because I LOVE their No DQ match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> I honestly didn't know they had another match on TV in 05 lol. I wanna see it now because I LOVE their No DQ match.


Here ya go. You wont be disappointed. I can't believe that Taker jobbed to JBL four matches straight!

Funny how many say he never puts over anyone yet they couldn't be more wrong. Just after the AE, guys he's put over includes a list of Lesnar, Cena, JBL, Orton, The Great Khali, Kozlov, Batista, Edge. Sure, he's looked dominant against most of them but that's also because he's THE UNDERTAKER. Not to forget that he was going to put over Muhammad Hassan had it not been for the UPN thing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plus even in the AE he was a lot of the time a "main event jobber" losing to Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Austin and Rock in just about every PPV encounter too lol.

Thanks for the link, downloading it now :mark:. I missed most of 05 as I gave up after WM with Cena and Batista as champions, so I've only really caught up on certain TV matches and then PPVs.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Always struggle to keep track of my top wrestling documentaries, but after tonight I have a new addition to my top 5:
> 
> 1. The Last of Nigel McGuinness
> 2. Pick Your Poison: The Jake Roberts Story
> ...


Fuck. I had lowered my hopes for it ever since I found out Nigel didn't hire anyone to work on the DVD editing/production and just did it himself. Can't wait to download it off XWT buy it when Nigel releases it for the rest of us.


----------



## Heterodox (Nov 18, 2012)

Selling WWE DVDs read my sig and PM me if you're interested in anything. Looking forward to the Nigel doc too.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I'm almost finished watching 2000 and even tho people say HHH was god that year, i have to disagree for the first maybe 6 month on PPV he was knocking it out of the park, but BENOIT was tearing it up in everymatch Raw, Smackdown and PPV. I don't think he had a bad match that whole year. I might post a list later.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Triple H was awesome on PPV that year but I'll have to re-watch his best TV stuff myself. Cleavage, have you watched the Steiners/Harts tag match yet?


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

No my Hart And Soul: The Hart Family Anthology hasn't come yet


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That match is probably second on my all time WWF/WWE tag matches ever, right behind the 2MPT vs The Chris's from Raw 2001. Come to think of it, we should probably all pitch in and do a greatest tag matches of all time poll or something of that nature. We need a thread-wide project to spark more interesting conversation out of our lazy asses


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Just copped and watched the nWo DVD. It was ight, but I felt like they focused too much on the positives and considering only Nash had done interviews and was there until the bitter end I'm not surprised the documentary was so meh. 


I mean why didn't Nash have to explain the 'Finger Poke of Doom' or why the nWo split into two factions, or why it was allowed to swell into 150 people? That's stuff I really wanted to know but the WCW DVDs don't usually take time out to discuss them. 


I give the documentary a 6/10. It didn't focus enough on both sides and their was no new Scott Hall interview.



Cleavage said:


> No my Hart And Soul: The Hart Family Anthology hasn't come yet


I still haven't seen that, anyone has seen it? How is it? 

How about quick critiques of the 
Road Warriors, Batista, Randy Orton & Dusty Rhodes DVDs. I will probably add them to my collection one day but I want to know if they should be a priority. The old guys like Dusty's projects usually come with great stories.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Every single time I say Flair is better than Rock at anything, I'm SWARMED with red rep by a few of the same Rocky marks every single time. I wonder is this a common occurence with everyone, or do the Rock marks just really have it out for me? Must be the fact that I think unk2 and :cena2 are better than *DWAYNE* ever was :heyman 

Ohhhh here comes the red rep :vince


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

jonoaries said:


> I still haven't seen that, anyone has seen it? How is it?
> 
> How about quick critiques of the
> Road Warriors, Batista, Randy Orton & Dusty Rhodes DVDs. I will probably add them to my collection one day but I want to know if they should be a priority. The old guys like Dusty's projects usually come with great stories.


Alright documentary with many of the Hart brothers & sisters speaking, and a very good collection of matches. Especially the Canadian Stampede tag, Hart/Steiners tag, Hart/Hart Cage Match, Owen/Davey match in Germany (Best Raw match ever imo), and more. I'd say it's worth a purchase.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Clique* .........

Top Five Best WWF/WWE Tags Ever (In Your Opinion) ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't know about best but these are some of my favorites (just traditional 2 on 2)

Rockers vs. Brainbusters - Madison Square Garden 01/23/1989
Rockers vs. Orient Express - Royal Rumble 1991
Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs 1-2-3 Kid & Razor Ramon - Action Zone 10/30/1994
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin - Raw 5/26/1997
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio - No Mercy 2002

I also love Harts/Steiners, Harts/Quebecers, Powertrip tag Raw 01, and Taker & Batista/Cena & HBK NWO 07


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Clique said:


> I wonder if we'd get the same result again if there was another poll. I don't remember, who were the choices for Wrestler Of The Decade 2000-2009? Kurt, Trips, Cena, Styles, Michaels...?


The offical awards were all write in votes,ANYONE from ANY promotion was eligible.Kurt was in first hbk in second 

angle vs benoit was best match of the decade.i liked angle vs hbk more



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Every single time I say Flair is better than Rock at anything, I'm SWARMED with red rep by a few of the same Rocky marks every single time. I wonder is this a common occurence with everyone, or do the Rock marks just really have it out for me? Must be the fact that I think unk2 and :cena2 are better than *DWAYNE* ever was :heyman
> 
> Ohhhh here comes the red rep :vince


i agree completely,i love Rocky,but i can name like 50 people better in ring than him,cena being one of them.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

KingCal said:


> Always struggle to keep track of my top wrestling documentaries, but after tonight I have a new addition to my top 5:
> 
> 1. The Last of Nigel McGuinness
> 2. Pick Your Poison: The Jake Roberts Story
> ...


Just ordered it can't wait to see it, glad it turned out well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Extreme Rules 2011

**Last Man Standing
*Randy Orton vs. CM Punk - *** 1/2

*United States Championship - Tables Match
*Sheamus (c) vs. Kofi Kingston - ***

*Country Whipping Match
*Jack Swagger & Michael Cole vs. Jim Ross & Jerry Lawler - N/R

*Falls Count Anywhere
*Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes - *** 1/4

*Loser Leaves WWE
*Layla vs. Michelle McCool - ** 1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship - Ladder Match
*Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio - ****

*World Tag Team Titles - Lumberjack Match
*Kane & Big Show (c) vs. Wade Barrett & Ezekiel Jackson - * 3/4

*WWE Championship - Steel Cage Match
*The Miz (c) vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison - ****


*Overall: 8.5/10

*- Feelings on Orton/Punk didn't changed on this watch. Very good match loaded with physicality, but I thought a lot of the spots were really predictable too. Orton's selling is really weird and I hate it when they book him to just totally bury people to win the match. Acceptable blowoff and a great opener though.

- Sheamus/Kofi has to one of my all time favorite table matches, most usually suck anyway. Love how they kept teasing the end with Kofi escaping every time, then BOOM, awesome spot to end it. Perfect match for its place on the card.

- Not gonna put a rating on the Country Whipping match. Did its job I guess but it's not like I cared about it.

- Rey/Cody is seriously so much fun. Loads of creative spots all over the building. Loved it when Rey's holding Cody's face up towards the mirror and he turns it into a disaster kick. For the build it had and its spot on the card, it could've gone longer, but it feels longer than 11 minutes anyway. The finish is real random.

- It's a shame no one in the crowd cared about LayCool's match. They brought the goods for 5 minutes, especially that late reversal into the Styles Clash that got like 2 reactions. Good match, super dead crowd.

- Maaaaaan, this was my 3rd time seeing Christian/Del Rio, and I raised the rating and liked it the most here. The drama is off the charts and the build is fantastic. The teases with Christian hanging inside the ladder thinking Del Rio's gonna win then when Christian's about to win and out comes Brodus were really well done. Glad they didn't edit anything either cause Brodus got busted open big time and Christian took that nasty bump against the steps in the middle of the match. Just a really damn good match with a finish that makes me mark out every time.

- Didn't have a problem with the Lumberjack match, besides not knowing who half of them were.  Did its job of creating dissension between Barrett & Jackson and that body slam was NICE.

- The main event over delivered on every level for me. Hell of a good watch with a lot of nice spots. Double suplex spot looked really nasty, plus Morrison channeling his inner Jeff Hardy and sacrificing himself a couple times. I seriously loved Truth's promo from earlier in the show and his interference here was perfect. The finish was awesome, although I know some people will probably be like 'well where the hell was Morrison?' No big deal, just selling the Truth beating. Shame those two never got a blowoff on PPV. Could've been real good.

- I haven't had the chance to rewatch Money in the Bank or Summerslam, but this is definitely a top 3 PPV from last year. Could even end up as my #1. So much consistency and two flat out great matches.​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Agree with the rating for the ladder match, everything else I'd lower. Main event would be lowered a hell of a lot .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Agree with the rating for the ladder match, everything else I'd lower. Main event would be lowered a hell of a lot .


Yeah, figured there'd be someone out there who'd say that. What's your problems with it?

Oh and I forgot to mention the blu ray extras. Edge's Retirement announcement, John Cena's Draft night, & The Rock's Birthday celebration. They include the full main event from draft night on there. Team RAW (Punk, Del Rio, Miz) vs. Team SmackDown (Cena, Christian, Henry). That's where we got the initial heel turn from Big Mark. Damn good blu ray to pick up, especially for like $5.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just found it to be boring as shit. No surprise since I hate everyone in the match bar Cena, and I'm not that high on Cena most of the time anyway. Add to that the fact it was a cage match on PPV. Those rarely go well any more. Other than that, I don't remember too well. Haven't seen it since it happened and I have zero intentions of ever watching it again.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Understandable. Hard to enjoy a match when you hate everyone in it I guess.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The inclusion of MORRISON automatically warrants a ***3/4+ rating.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You missed the - from the start of that rating.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You better watch what you say...

I miss Morrison 

You didn't enjoy Morrison/Mysterio for the IC title from SD a few years ago? I thought everyone liked that match (and not just for Mysterio).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was good, but I don't hold it in high regard like everyone else. ***1/4 at most.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fair enough. 

I've always liked him. Hope he returns soon, although if he does I may have to go on another forum sabbatical since I'm sure everyone on this board will find a way to tear him apart.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Morrison was a good worker but terribly bland character. The "rock star" persona just never clicked for him as a singles performer. To me his character could have potentially been better as a heel but he works matches much better as a babyface with his spots and selling.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When he was Nitro as part of MNM he was awesome. I thought Miz/Morrison made a good team as well. I did enjoy his singles work, as I felt even if his offense was a little erratic and nonsensical, his matches were always entertaining. Maybe he's just better suited as a tag team worker.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Say what you want about Morrison (spot monkey, no mic skills, etc.), he certainly delivered in a big time atmosphere. I love his matches with Mysterio, Punk, FCA vs. Miz, and adore his series with Sheamus.

On a different note, I can't believe I'd ever say this, but I just ordered the *John Cena Experience Blu Ray*. My dislike for Cena has lessened greatly recently and I wanted to own the matches with Angle, 3-way with Angle & HBK, Lashley, & Trips. Mania match vs. Batista isn't a bad Blu Ray extra either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wasn't a fan of him as Johnny Nitro, didn't like his team with Jiz, but did enjoy his run in MNM. One of the best tag teams of the last decade.

As a singles guy, his offence annoyed me more than anything else. He did have a good run on SD in 09 against the likes of Edge, Jericho and Punk.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Damn Silvervision and WWE are done. sad news.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

One of my favorite Morrison matches is actually his WHC match against Hardy back in 2009, I thought Jeff made him look like a million bucks. I also enjoyed Morrison in multi-man or gimmick matches where his weaknesses could be hidden better like his matches with the Hardys and his various ladder matches.

A lot of people didn't like his series of matches with Benjamin either I thought they were damn solid not to mention some outings with Ziggler.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So earlier this year folks in the United States were raving that Silvervision's UK Exclusive Blu Rays were playable over here. Has anyone ever tried that??? I know several readers on WWEDVDNews said Summerslam & Night of Champions from last year worked perfectly. I'm mainly concerned about TLC 2011, which I really wanna pick up on blu ray.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So earlier this year folks in the United States were raving that Silvervision's UK Exclusive Blu Rays were playable over here. Has anyone ever tried that??? I know several readers on WWEDVDNews said Summerslam & Night of Champions from last year worked perfectly. I'm mainly concerned about TLC 2011, which I really wanna pick up on blu ray.


Yup.

I've imported NOC 2011, SummerSlam 2011, Vengeance 2011, Hell in a Cell 2011, and Survivor Series 2011.

Anything before/after those PPVs are not region free. 

And no TLC 2011 isn't region free.

We have to settle with the DVD release which I did pick up last week to complete my Late 2011-Summer of Punk collection.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

DrugFreeGeorge said:


> Yup.
> 
> I've imported NOC 2011, SummerSlam 2011, Vengeance 2011, Hell in a Cell 2011, and Survivor Series 2011.
> 
> ...


Well what the shit man. Why would they just choose those 5 PPVs... Of course they stop at the one I want.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Always been a fan of Morrison. Flashy offense, good selling, mic skills....meh but he's not an actor. I likened him to RVD in a way. He's far too laid back for what they wanted him to do. 


No ****, but I miss Jomo. A good spot monkey to heat crowds up is always useful. Rey is slowing down and Sin Cara is only useful if his opponent speaks spanish. Kofi is great but I think the midcard needs Jomo.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Just watched Austin/Bret from SS 96. Really is an amazing match. Austin was terrific in it, I seriously think the Bret matches being so good is purely down to Austin.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

All of your thoughts on Over The Limit 2012, RR 2012, Jericho DVD & HHH: King of Kings?

Spree on Silvervision


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Ever Wolf said:


> All of your thoughts on Over The Limit 2012, RR 2012, Jericho DVD & HHH: King of Kings?
> 
> Spree on Silvervision


For OTL 2012 just buy the CM Punk Best In The World DVD, it has Punk/Bryan from Over The Limit on the match listing. Plus OTL has that horrendous Cena/Johnny Ace match. But Punk/Bryan is my MOTY, so just by the punk dvd

Royal Rumble 2012 to me isn't really worth it, you get a good match with punk/ziggler an fun opener with show/bryan/henry continuing bryan's heel championship run. Everything else on the ppv isn't really worth purchasing to me, the rumble's not that great.

The King of Kings DVD is a disappointment don't buy it. Wait for whenever HHH has his massive dvd set, that's the one i'll be buying. 

The Jericho DVD is worth the purchase


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Over The Limit 2011

*Rey Mysterio vs. R-Truth - ***

*Intercontinental Championship
*Wade Barrett (c) vs. Ezekiel Jackson - * 1/2

Chavo Guerrero vs. Sin Cara - * 3/4

*WWE Tag Team Championship
*Big Show & Kane (c) vs. CM Punk & Mason Ryan - **

*Divas Championship
*Brie Bella (c) vs. Kelly Kelly - DUD

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Randy Orton (c) vs. Christian - **** 1/4

*Kiss My Foot Match
*Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole - 1/2*

*WWE Championship - I Quit Match
*John Cena (c) vs. The Miz - FUCK YOU, DUD x8


*Overall: 4/10

*- Well, I enjoyed the opener. Good fast paced action with a shocking finish that really got Truth over. Barrett/Jackson was completely average with a finish that shouldn't be on PPV. Sin Cara should've just wrestled a crash dummy. Nothing but a collection of spots with a botched finished that seriously made me laugh. The Tag Title match had a good formula and was going along fine, impressive Oklahoma Stampede from Mason to Kane, then it just ended. Again, a match I could see on RAW on any given week. Divas match fucking sucked between Kelly's constant annoying yells and the awful finish.

- THANK GOD for Orton/Christian. Ridiculously good back and forths match with tons of awesome counters and callbacks to their SmackDown affair. Some of those nearfalls were tremendously done. They had the crowd eating out of the palm of their hands, and it was 10 minutes shorter than the fucking main event!

- I don't really have a problem with Cole/Lawler. It was entertaining to a certain point, funny how Eve went for a cover after her moonsault. The main event is a giant shit stain. That's all I wanna say about it. Pretty damn bad PPV outside of two matches.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I've always liked him. Hope he returns soon, although if he does I may have to go on another forum sabbatical since I'm sure everyone on this board will find a way to tear him apart.


I still like Morrison. 

So, was I the only one who really enjoyed Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro from RAW this week? Finish wasn't spectacular, yet it kept Cesaro looking strong at the end. Marked for the use of the Alpamare Water Slide & European Uppercut counter from the flying shoulder block. Had that style to matches that I love. Plus it continues Sheamus' workhorse streak every week. ***1/2.

More credit goes to Danielson/Mysterio & Cena/Dolph for putting on two other good matches this week. RAW put out something worthwhile.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I agree with everything you said. Sheamus/Cesaro really surprised me. Glad they didn't let Sheamus run him over. The VERY European Uppercut counter to the flying shoulder tackle =


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wanted Cesaro to bust out that counter earlier in the match when Sheamus went for the Jim Neidhart style slingshot shoulderblock. Lucky for me he did the counter later on and it OWNED. He killed Sheamus with it too. ON POINT :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah it looked nasty. Love how physical Cesaro's offense is. Wish he got more of a reaction.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh. That crowd was pretty bad the majority of the show. (go figure when RAW was actually worth seeing) Only guys who got any pops worth noticing were Cena, Ryback, Danielson via YES/NO & PUNK. Oh, Ryder was really over too.... Fucking WWE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL yeah I noticed Ryder got a really good reaction. I'm shocked he's still that over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fad my ass. Maybe with the company. Not with the fans.

But lets put championships on Kofi Kingston & use R-Truth in a decent capacity. That makes sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stupid WWE fans, why do they always have to react the most to the absolute shittiest wrestlers on the damn roster 99% of the time? ARGHH.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I bet MORRISON would get a huge pop if he returned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I doubt many people would actually remember Morrison in all honestly .

Plus they'd probably give him the Christian treatment. Shows up on NXT. Oh hey, its John Morrison.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cal I'm getting awfully tired of your shit!

I'd remember Morrison


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Awww, tired of my shit? What ya gonna do bout it, biach? NUFFIN. That's what.

Could be worse anyway. Morrison could be as terrible as Kofi. Now there is a guy that needs to just fuck off and never come back.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You're absolutely right. I'm gonna sit here and take it 

Yeah, agreed 100% on Kofi. 

Have you seen the Lesnar DVD yet, Cal?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What are the best 2 out of 3 falls matches?

Off the top of my head, I can think of Benoit/Jericho (SummerSlam 2000) and Sheamus/Bryan (Extreme Rules 2012).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not his new one, no. From what I understand there isn't that much new footage for the documentary so I cba with it since I own the original . I'll get the bluray at some point when its really cheap because I like the match listings, but I really don't care about the documentary.

2/3 falls? Not a fan of Benoit/Jericho tbh. Love the Bangle/Redge No Mercy 02 rematch on SD . When I think of 2 out of 3 falls matches I always think of tag matches since it was very popular in the 80's for tag matches to be 2 out of 3 falls.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Although some people (Caida) disagree, HHH/Austin. Tag match from 02 as well.

Also, was there a Lesnar/Benoit 2/3 falls match, or just an Iron Man? I don't recall.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> What are the best 2 out of 3 falls matches?
> 
> Off the top of my head, I can think of Benoit/Jericho (SummerSlam 2000) and Sheamus/Bryan (Extreme Rules 2012).


Flair/Steamboat (Y)

Some more im trying to think of, Hart Foundation/Demolition has always been a fave of mine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Although some people (Caida) disagree, HHH/Austin.
> 
> Also, was there a Lesnar/Benoit 2/3 falls match, or just an Iron Man? I don't recall.


You mean Angle/Benoit?  They had a 30 minute Ultimate Submission match (aka iron man with submission only) and a 3 stages of hell style 2/3 falls match . And if you meant Lesnar/Angle, just Iron Man.

Also, add me to the list of people that don't like HHH/Austin .

Edit: FUCK, how did I forget Flair/Steamboat? That's THE 2 out of 3 falls match. ***** and 4th greatest match of all time imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Also, Guerrero/Malenko and maybe Triple H/Rock (Fully Loaded).


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The 3 stages of hell HBK/HHH is a great 2 of 3 falls match too. Dat Flair/Steamboat is #1 though. Shit was epic


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

jonoaries said:


> *The 3 stages of hell HBK/HHH is a great 2 of 3 falls match too*. Dat Flair/Steamboat is #1 though. Shit was epic


Probably only about 3 of you who think that .

Not the best 2/3 falls, but I just recently watched Glamour Girls Vs Jumping Bomb Angles and Hart Foundation/Duggan Vs Fabulous Rougeaou Brothers/Bravo from some old RR events and they are both very good .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Despite being a massive Benoit fan, I must admit I didn't like his 2/3 falls match with Angle all that much. Just didn't have the awesomeness that surrounds most of their other matches.

And fuck, I NEED to check out one or more of these Flair/Steamboat matches. I keep hearing about them all the time but am yet to watch a single one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis 2/3 falls match too, great stuff IMO.

I was watching one the other day, Austin/Rhodes from 1993 (think its Starrcade), really nice match, apart from one of the falls involves Rhodes getting DQ'd due to throwing Austin over the top rope, god i forgot about that rule back in those days of WCW, i had to smile lol.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Better worker, Bret or Benoit?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Benoit. I prefer his intensity over Bret's more methodical style.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not very familiar with Bret's career other than a few matches but based on those, I easily go with Benoit.

Benoit is the greatest wrestler I've seen and a one-of-a-kind performer that we'll never get to see anything like again. So amazing to watch. Exciting wrestling style with a mix of power, technicality and an awesome flying headbutt to go with. And who can forget the INTENSITY? The way he performed his moves, with the aggression, speed and stiffness. He was never scared of taking risks and always gave fans their money's worth even when wrestling some terrible opponents. Great seller, ring psychology and very strong considering his size. He could German Suplex Mark Henry and Viscera!!!

And Bret is way too slow in comparison so I don't enjoy his work as much but he's still among the greatest without a doubt.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> Better worker, Bret or Benoit?


Tough, I'll go with Benoit. Benoit brought that legitimate tough guy, that balls to the wall, leave it all in the ring style. It was a bit more exciting and fan friendly than Bret's. I think Bret is one of the GOAT's in ring too, so this is a high compliment. 


Bret style sometimes looked more like a chess match. Specifically the Iron Man match w/ HBK, the No DQ match w/ Diesel at Survivor Series, his matches with Austin at Survivor Series & Wrestlemania. 


Benoit also wrestled a more aggressive, fast paced style, with a lot of move variations (snap & german suplexes) and still brought in the daredevil stuff. Its a bit more fan friendly than the traditional, methodical style of Bret.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingCal said:


> You mean Angle/Benoit?  They had a 30 minute Ultimate Submission match (aka iron man with submission only) and a 3 stages of hell style 2/3 falls match . And if you meant Lesnar/Angle, just Iron Man.


Yeah, fuck me. I meant Angle/Lesnar.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Its Beniot... As I've aged ive found that Bret harts work upon rewatching more often than not and with a handful of exceptions doesn't usually hold up real well and ends up boring the hell out of me. This coming from one of the biggest Hart marks back in the day. His offense is was always kinda lame, it took certain guys to get a high level of intensity out of him. Beniot brought that shit every time and his matches on the whole are more enjoyable...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Benoit, his best matches? I really like some of his Japan stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Speaking of Benoit, his best matches? I really like some of his Japan stuff.


I think it's WAY too many to list. I'll just go with his WWE matches and try to name the absolute best only.

vs The Rock (Fully Loaded 00 + every other match)
vs Chris Jericho (SummerSlam 00, Royal Rumble 01)
vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania 17, Backlash 01, Royal Rumble 03)
w/ Jericho vs 2 Man Power Trip (Raw)
vs Stone Cold (Smackdown)
vs RVD (SummerSlam 02)
w/ Angle vs Edge & Mysterio (No Mercy 02)
vs Eddie Guerrero (Vengeance 03)
vs Brock Lesnar (Smackdown)
vs HBK (Raw x2)
vs HHH vs HBK (Wrestlemania 20, Backlash 04)
vs HHH (Ironman on Raw and Pick Your Poison 05)
vs Kane (Bad Blood 04)
vs Randy Orton (SummerSlam 04, Smackdown 06)
MITB I (WM21)
vs Regal (Velocity & No Mercy 06)
vs Edge (Raw after WM, Backlash 05 & Smackdown 07)
vs Finlay (Judgment Day 06)

I'm really bitter that he and Undertaker never worked a real program together.

Also opinions on Benoit's match with Sting on Nitro 99? I watched it the other day and it was pretty good.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> And fuck, I NEED to check out one or more of these Flair/Steamboat matches. I keep hearing about them all the time but am yet to watch a single one.


Seriously, take 2 hours today and watch the '89 series they had in order. All 5-star matches and most likely the best feud ever WRT match quality.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Sting is really awesome. Benoit's WCW run is widely praised but there are still so many really good matches that people don't ever talk about.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I prefer Bret, but the margin isn't as big as some probably believe. Bret for some reason or another just DID IT for me , seemingly putting on some fantastic matches with guys that never should have had anything resembling ***+ (SEE Jean-Paul Lafitte & The Patriot). Part of the thing with Bret was that he was a REAL character in what was at the time (in 1995) a cartoon world of wrestling. I always believed that Bret's best era was his comeback at Survivor Series 96 until Surivor Series 1997 , where he was practically untouchable (even by GOD-like HBK).

This may seem like a whole different discussion, but I believe the only things that Shawn hold over Bret is his longevity, and while Shawn wrestled the greatest match of all time IMO at BB 97, Bret wrestled in the second greatest match ever at WM X vs his brother Owen. If I could just run down Bret's ****+ matches from that era ;

vs Austin SS 96 : ******* (Top 12 match ever)
vs SID IYH XII : **** 1/4*
vs Taker vs Austin vs Vader IYH XIII : ***** 1/2*
vs Austin WM XIII : ******* (4th best WWF/WWE Match Ever)
vs Austin IYH XIV : *(Yet To Be Seen)*
Canadian Stampede Tag : ***** 1/2*
vs Taker SS 97 : ******
vs The Patriot IYH GZ : **** 3/4* (Probably the most impressive of all)
vs Taker ONO 97 : ***** 1/2*
w/Bulldog vs Vader/Patriot : *(Yet To Be Seen)*
vs Shawn SS 97 : ******

I'm going to have to see if this checks out as the greatest year for any individual performer in WWE history. Seriously, I'm willing to bet that this is it, I really need to put my hands in the dirt and research this shit up.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I prefer Benoit

Loved his move set and intensity. His snap supplex will always be one of my favourite moves and the cross face is probably my number 1 submission move. 
I can understand the argument for Bret but i have never been a huge fan.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Best single brand PPV?
...
I'm thinking maybe No Mercy 2006 (Smackdown) or Vengeance 2005 (Raw) but of the two I prefer NM06. The fatal 4 way was very impressive and the Kennedy/Undertaker match was awesome as well. Incredible undercard matches like Matt Hardy/Gregory Helms (I loved their series by the way) and Chavo vs Rey (always a great match). 

...
Vengeance had the epic Batista/H HIAC, Angle/HBK II and a very good IC title match between Carlito and Shelton Benjamin. 

...
I loved the 2 brand system too, but it fell apart


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Raw Is War 11/20/2000 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit*

***3/4 This was fucking AWESOME. A ton of great technical stuff early on, and then both men got increasingly vicious. Benoit was Benoit in this every counter and move was smoother and Austin more then held his own for the most part, I would bump this to 4 stars if 1. Austin would of sold the arm and 2, if the finish wasn't so anticlimactic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Vengeance 2003 or Vengeance 2005 , preferably 2005 because I'm a mark for shit I USED to mark out to when I was younger


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nice to see some love for that match. Usually when Austin/Benoit gets mentioned its the epic 2001 SD match. They had a tremendous match on Raw the same week as well that doesn't get mentioned, and I'm sure they have at least 2 more TV matches between that 00 one and the May 01 ones. If Benoit didn't get injured I wonder if we would have seen a singles match on PPV between them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That Austin/Benoit is really good. Probably the second best WWF TV match of 2000. Other than the big 5-on-5 in February I can't think of anything clearly better. 

Favourite single brand PPV is probably Judgment Day 2006.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LOVE Judgement Day 2006 other than the Booker/Lashley match ; FUCK THAT SHIT. Enjoyed Henry-KURT for some reason that I don't really understand, and I've always been a huge fan of JBL-Mysterio matches as well. OH and that awesome Finlay-Benoit match takes place there. Smackdown just owned Raw in every sense of the word in 2006.

I actually miss single-branded PPVs


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> That Austin/Benoit is really good. Probably the second best WWF TV match of 2000. Other than the big 5-on-5 in February I can't think of anything clearly better.
> 
> Favourite single brand PPV is probably Judgment Day 2006.


I might like the Austin/Angle match from the week after a little better than the Benoit match, not sure though, would have to watch em both back to back.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Don't think I've seen that one. Is it from Raw or SmackDown?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tis from Raw. Maybe I'm confusing it with one of their 01 matches that I really like at the start of the year. Either way its good as it made my Best of Raw 2000 comp .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, found it. Might watch it later. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2DmdyaBSPA


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> *WWF Raw Is War 11/20/2000 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit*
> 
> ***3/4 This was fucking AWESOME. A ton of great technical stuff early on, and then both men got increasingly vicious. Benoit was Benoit in this every counter and move was smoother and Austin more then held his own for the most part, I would bump this to 4 stars if 1. Austin would of sold the arm and 2, if the finish wasn't so anticlimactic.


Just finished watching this match. Pretty damn good for the amount of time it got. The finish did feel very anticlimactic, though. I agree with that. I'ma rate it @ ***1/2. Their SD match is a true classic, though. ****3/4 worthy.

While I was at it, I also watched the Smackdown match between Taker & Benoit. Another short one with a DQ ending. Had potential but like I've said before, they should have gone at it in a bigger stage or at least been given 20 minutes to put on a classic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All 3 Benoit/Undertaker matches were a disappointment. Solid for the time they got, but nothing special. Needed to happen around 05-07 though, could have been amazing at that time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> All 3 Benoit/Undertaker matches were a disappointment. Solid for the time they got, but nothing special. Needed to happen around 05-07 though, could have been amazing at that time.


Yep, specially in 2006. They even did a storyline between them in SVR 2007. Don't know why they couldn't have done it on-screen too. Even one PPV match that got a decent amount of time would have sufficed.

Just one of those dream matches that never got to happen and we know it would have been unlikely even with the tragedy not taking place as Benoit was drafted to ECW which was the first sign of them making him irrelevant. Or maybe they would have brought him back to one of the relevant shows in 2008 and they would have finally come to their senses and booked the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Awww, tired of my shit? What ya gonna do bout it, biach? NUFFIN. That's what.
> 
> Could be worse anyway. Morrison could be as terrible as Kofi. Now there is a guy that needs to just fuck off and never come back.


Amen. Watching some stuff with Kofi in 2009 during his push, aka best time he'll ever have in a career, and he STILL was shitty. Can't believe it only took me last year to realize it. He's really a piss poor wrestler. He can jump high. Ok, that's fun for about 5 seconds. How about adding something to the match or a sufficient moveset? Yeah. He's rather terrible.

Oh and I select Benoit over Bret from an overall better worker standpoint.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Favorite single brand PPV? Backlash '06. Loved that show. Either that or No Mercy '06.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh sheesh. umm, No Mercy 2006 is a high one in my book. That could take number one. Vengeance 2003 rules too. Chuck in Vengeance 2005 and that's probably my top 3.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Rock and Benoit had some killer TV matches as well during '00 i'm trying to think of the dates.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rock Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Raw 14.02.2000
The Rock Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Raw 06.03.2000
The Rock Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Raw 07.08.2000
The Rock Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Smackdown 16.11.2000


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Oh sheesh. umm, No Mercy 2006 is a high one in my book. That could take number one. Vengeance 2003 rules too. Chuck in Vengeance 2005 and that's probably my top 3.


Vengeance '03! Always forget that was a single brand one. Think it may have been one of the first. I love that WGTT/Rey & Kidman match, Eddie/Benoit, Taker/Cena and the main event grows on me everytime I watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Vengeance '03! Always forget that was a single brand one. Think it may have been one of the first. I love that WGTT/Rey & Kidman match, Eddie/Benoit, Taker/Cena and the main event grows on me everytime I watch.


First ever Smackdown single brand PPV. Second ever behind Bad Blood '03.

Fabulous show. The undercard is what it should be if not necessarily "good" matches, yet fun and they work well into the event. Noble/Gunn with the hilarious stipulation, Steph/Sable for being watchable thanks to an angle the fans ate up, Vince/Gowen was fine enough with more added drama by the crowd, & that APA bar room brawl :lol Guilty pleasure match if I've ever seen it.

Then the other four matches are superb. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> First ever Smackdown single brand PPV. Second ever behind Bad Blood '03.
> 
> Fabulous show. The undercard is what it should be if not necessarily "good" matches, yet fun and they work well into the event. Noble/Gunn with the hilarious stipulation, Steph/Sable for being watchable thanks to an angle the fans ate up, Vince/Gowen was fine enough with more added drama by the crowd, & that APA bar room brawl :lol Guilty pleasure match if I've ever seen it.
> 
> Then the other four matches are superb. :mark:


Forgot about the Noble/Gunn storyline. :lmao:lmao:lmao

Another good single branded PPV...No Way Out '06!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Another great single brand PPV: Armageddon 2006! Undertaker/Kennedy is good (their weakest match though), Helms/Yang is good, Kane/MVP is way better than it has any right to be considering they were SURROUNDED BY FIRE lol, 4 way ladder match is fucking awesome. Main event is a big let down, and not even Benoit could get anything good out of Chavo. Miz and Boogeyman also happened. The less said the better.

Hmmm... plenty of awesome PPV's in 06 on the SD side of things .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, I recall enjoying Armageddon '06 as well. Really fun show.

Was watching the SD after WM 25 today (Hulu Plus has every SD from that show until now and I'm looking to watch thru '09. Have Hulu for 2 months, then I'm starting SD '06). There was a semi-decent Matt Hardy promo to kick off the show and Cutting Edge w/Cena OWNED, imo. Really strong promo from them. Matches were meh. Haven't watched the main event which is Hardy/Hardy stretcher.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stretcher match is really good, better than anything else they've done together as opponents.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Awesome! That actually somewhat surprises me because I really didn't care for their other matches. I'm really excited to get a month or two in when all the big matches from the Summer got going involving Punk, Morrison, Rey, Jericho, etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Forgot about the Noble/Gunn storyline. :lmao:lmao:lmao
> 
> Another good single branded PPV...No Way Out '06!


Never seen it except for Undertaker/Angle once 

Judgment Day 2006 is another good one.



KingCal said:


> Another great single brand PPV: Armageddon 2006! Undertaker/Kennedy is good (their weakest match though), Helms/Yang is good, Kane/MVP is way better than it has any right to be considering they were SURROUNDED BY FIRE lol, 4 way ladder match is fucking awesome. Main event is a big let down, and not even Benoit could get anything good out of Chavo. Miz and Boogeyman also happened. The less said the better.
> 
> Hmmm... plenty of awesome PPV's in 06 on the SD side of things .


Ok show. That's got like 2 good matches and one great match. Shit crowd. One of the good matches imo is Benoit/Chavo. Taker vs Kennedy sucks. So we differ on that front.

Lol @ the main event. So mediocre.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone watched Del Rio/Cena from SD tonight? Maybe it's because I just watched but I really, really enjoyed it. Would throw a ***1/2-***3/4 on it at the moment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Armageddon 2006 is an EXTREMELY fun show to me. It feels like a legit supercard because it features a big time ladder match, and two REALLY rare match types in the Last Ride match and Inferno match. We also have the two biggest stars in the company and two world champions tagging in the main event, couple all of that together and you get a REALLY fun show that you can just watch at any time (if you're me that is).

Another one of those "fun" shows for me would have to be No Mercy 2003. Loved it up and down.... Tajiri-Rey , Benoit-Albert , Guerrero-Show, Cena-Angle, Lesnar-Taker ... Hell , I was even somewhat interested in that damn Mcmahon vs Mcmahon match for some strange reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I will when it airs. JOHN BOY pumping out dem quality matches. I'm keeping an eye out for that. I've yet to watch Main Event & last week's Saturday Morning Slam though. Oh, and I still need to finish the last 3 matches from LAST WEEK's smackdown haha.

Sometimes having a life can really take away from rasslin watching. Boooo. 

EDIT ~ NO MERCY 2003 DAMMIT, YES. GREAT SHOW. ALL CAPS B/C I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I own NM '03 but I don't think I've ever watched it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dude, buy it. It's so good. Best Angle vs Cena match ever. ****. 

Then you have Mysterio vs Tajiri & Benoit vs A-Train too. Toss in how awesome Vince vs Steph was (seriously) and there you go.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Benoit/Albert sounds like it could be a war of a match. And I love Tajiri and Rey is great so I figure I'd enjoy that. Haven't cared for Cena/Angle matches so I'll need to see that. Heard good things about it.

Stephanie/Vince is good? That surprises me but at the same time the emotion behind the match probably helps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Train is really good, imo. A very substantial midcard match with a mega star in Benoit and an underrated big man worker. Minus the gnarly botch in it, everything works.

Yep. Vince vs Steph is good. Probably the best commentary by Cole & Taz during a match too. Emotion is spot on. It was pure emotion.

Eddie vs Show went a few minutes too long, but it's fine. Taker vs Brock went on a bit too long too. Still good. Weakest of their 3 PPV matches though. Hardy vs Gowen was fun for the time it got. Only blah match is APA vs Bashams. It involves Bashams. So that isn't a surprise. They're terrible. Ah, screw it:

Tajiri/Mysterio ~ ***3/4
Benoit/A-Train ~ ***1/4
Hardy/Gowen ~ **1/4
APA/Bashams ~ 1/2*
Vince/Stephanie ~ ***
Angle/Cena ~ ****
Eddie/Show ~ **
BROCK/Undertaker ~ ***


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Damn that actually sounds really well rounded. I can deal with a main event being in the low-mid *** range if the rest of the show makes up for it.

Plus if I'm looking for some Brock/Taker I can throw in the HIAC DVD. 

Thinking of it, Raw didn't have too many great single branded shows. Other than Vengeance '05, the Backlashes and Unforgiven '06, I can't think of many.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You could end up liking Taker/Brock more than myself too. I know it dragged for me in the middle phase. Other than that it was an entertaining clash between the big monsters.

RAW single branded PPVs seemed like old school WWF PPVs. Undercards are poor and forgettable while the main events were awesome and usually delivered. Unless it's Vengeance 2006 and the preferred main event got stuck at match #5 and a solid at best handicap match was made to be the final match on the show. I guess that beats out the night ending with Cena vs Sabu EXTREME LUMBERJACK match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> You could end up liking Taker/Brock more than myself too. I know it dragged for me in the middle phase. Other than that it was an entertaining clash between the big monsters.
> 
> RAW single branded PPVs seemed like old school WWF PPVs. Undercards are poor and forgettable while the main events were awesome and usually delivered. Unless it's Vengeance 2006 and the preferred main event got stuck at match #5 and a solid at best handicap match was made to be the final match on the show. I guess that beats out the night ending with Cena vs Sabu EXTREME LUMBERJACK match.


Goddamn, that 5 on 2 main eventing was so strange. Got a show with a really good Edge/RVD match in the middle of the card. I still forget that RVD was champ at one point. Fucking Sabu. :lmao

Despite it not being too popular, I enjoy the triple threat from that show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's DX. Not too weird when you look at it now. At least it got Dolph Ziggler a main event slot. 8*D

RVD vs Edge deserved better. It's not uncommon for WWE to do this though. Look at this year with the Punker. Oh well. They had the best match on the show much like Punk did this year. Guess that's the way it goes sometimes.

3 way is ok. Had some solid spots, but I've never been it's biggest fan. Around **1/2 for me. Actually liked Orton vs Angle from that show a lot more. (never gets mentioned, hence my point)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Vengeance 2006... Oh God.

Edge-Van Dam was AWESOME and should have main evented, but instead we got a 17 minute long 5 on 2 handicap match featuring male cheerleaders, pantsing, and air horns. WTF. Cena-Sabu was cool just to see such an odd pair in the ring but the match itself sucked. 

Personally, I ADORE the Lesnar-Taker series and agree that it needs to be Punk or Lesnar taking on Taker , with Trips getting the one that Taker doesn't face. Punk vs Trips @ Mania ? My two ALL TIME FAVORITES going one on one at Wrestlemania in a big time match ? GOD DAMN. Lesnar's a top 5 for me too, which is why I adore Trips-Lesnar I and hope we get another :hhh

DAT BOY GETTIN' DAT WIN BACK :vince


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> It's DX. Not too weird when you look at it now. At least it got Dolph Ziggler a main event slot. 8*D
> 
> RVD vs Edge deserved better. It's not uncommon for WWE to do this though. Look at this year with the Punker. Oh well. They had the best match on the show much like Punk did this year. Guess that's the way it goes sometimes.
> 
> 3 way is ok. Had some solid spots, but I've never been it's biggest fan. Around **1/2 for me. Actually liked Orton vs Angle from that show a lot more. (never gets mentioned, hence my point)


True. :side:

There are times when it's okay to do that. Such as Lesnar/Cena. But it pisses me off when stuff like Cena/Johnny main events. 

Damn, forgot about Angle/Orton. Really liked that match. Didn't care for their ONS match but the atmosphere made up for it. ONS II is one of my favorite PPVs ever.

And @HeymanGuy, I agree. I think Trips will get the win if Trips/Lesnar II happens.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena/Johnny would have been AWESOME if not for two things ;

1. The obvious Big Show turn. I actually ordered this show, and when I saw Big Show coming, my friends actually started leaving because they knew exactly what was going to happen. It would have been better if it was somebody who, you know... DOESN'T FUCKING TURN HEEL 86575 TIMES A YEAR.

2. IF IT DIDN'T MAIN EVENT. You let Punk-Bryan close out this show and OTL 12 goes up in value significantly. You have one of the best matches of this era in Punk-Bryan, and the main event is a comedy match ? Should have taken place before Punk-Bryan. What the fuck Vince.

I just wanna see a big time Lesnar match, a big time Punk match, and a big time Trips match at Wrestlemania XXIX , with Rock-Cena NOOOOTTTTT main eventing. Fuck that shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> True. :side:
> 
> There are times when it's okay to do that. Such as Lesnar/Cena. But it pisses me off when stuff like Cena/Johnny main events.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the rarer occasion is fine. Undertaker vs Michaels WrestleMania 26 is another one. Random crap about b/c it has the current "big" name in the match is bunk. Cena vs Ace could have been just as impactful if it went on right before Punk vs Danielson. True story. Big Show turn wasn't mindbending or anything. A PPV had Undertaker get buried alive and it STILL continued for crying out loud.

Yep, same here. I don't care for the ONS '06 match. Vengeance was fun & good. Plus I get the satisfaction of an Orton win in that one too. The little things always help. Crowd's chants towards Orton during the ONS match are :lol

Don't want another Brock vs Triple H match. Let alone one that means Triple H would win. Ugh @ that prospect.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Hammerstein crowd got better and better every match. :lmao I think they even tied Cena and Orton into the same chant at one point.

What was the big problem with Orton back then? I mean they boo'd Edge too but not to the degree of Orton. It was less heel heat and more hate heat it seemed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Attitude. Per usual.

It's why he was "injured" kayfabe by Angle after WrestleMania. Got suspended again. That might have been the trashing the hotel room scenario.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Attitude. Per usual.
> 
> It's why he was "injured" kayfabe by Angle after WrestleMania. Got suspended again. That might have been the trashing the hotel room scenario.


Ah yes. :lmao

My only problem with Orton around that time was his use of rest holds a little too often in some matches. But he was probably my favorite guy at the time. 

Throwing in ER '12 with a couple friends tonight. I enjoy nearly everything on this show. Might throw in NWO '12 after too. Another fun show, imo. Need to give Show/Cena another watch anyway. Plus KIDD/GABRIEL on PPV. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I guess I was always able to look the other way on his attitude back then b/c he was still entertaining overall. Now he's so bland that his attitude rubs me the wrong way. Stop bitching and do the job. Going heel should help at least.

Best PPV to choose. Especially with Brock. He's appealing to more people now thanks to his MMA work. Doesn't hurt that the PPV is a blast to watch. I bought it about 3 months ago and I've watched it, shoot, idk 7 times already. Which actually is a lot.

NWO is the 2012 PPV I've watched the least. Don't know why. Really liked Sheamus/Dolph & Punk/Danielson/Kane. I often wonder if Cena/Show would grow on me if I do rewatch it. Didn't hate it one bit. It merely felt so linear of a match. Didn't help that my interest in the entire program wasn't massive. I did have fun with it. Had an old school vibe when leading towards the finish.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I fucking HATED Randy and his rear naked chinlocks early in his career, until for some reason I really start digging him in 2007. He was a TRIPS' Nemesis, so obviously I couldn't be too big of a fan. :hhh Seriously though, right now I consider Randy to be one of the best of his generation in terms of all around character, probably put him just behind Cena and Punk (although the drop off is pretty huge after both of them , not going to lie).

Loved the Randy-Angle matches for some reason, have them at *** each. Randy in general seemed lost in terms of direction in 06-early 07 , but that's to be expected of a multiple time violator of the Wellness policy.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton has been real disappointing this year. Just haven't been able to care. Still putting on solid matches but the character just isn't there.

Agreed. (Y) These guys are pretty close to smarks despite not talking wrestling on the internet so they know most of the roster anyway but a Lesnar match always draws excitement. Except Trips/Lesnar from Summerslam which I just can't get into. I understand what it was trying to do...I just didn't really like it.

I'm really interested in rewatching Cena/Show. I recall not liking it much but the feud just wasn't my thing. I figure now that it's over I might find more enjoyment. That and I haven't rewatched anything on it and there was some good stuff on there. Christian/Rhodes was pretty good, if I recall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Are you comparing Randy's current character or overall career stretch? Either way I'm gonna disagree with him in a top 3 sense. I'd put Edge above Orton in the character department. He might have been there in the Attitude Era, but c'mon. He can count.

@Brye ~ Cool man. Enjoy yourself when you watch.

Yeah, Brock vs H fell flat for me too. Don't know what it was. I was really excited for it too.

YES. Christian vs Rhodes was (Y). That show is odd. Half of it is really good wrestling. Then the other half is filled with crap like Sin Cara vs Hunico, Beth vs Layla, and the worse of the bunch in Santino vs Ricardo Tuxedo match.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Armageddon 06 is awesome as is No Way Out 06. In fact I think NWO06 is the best event. The great Rey-Orton, a very good Booker-Benoit and the epic Undertaker-Angle match.
.
Yeah I miss single brand PPVs, it gives more opportunity to lower card talents. Armageddon 2006 was good too. Kennedy-Undertaker was fun (first blood match was better though), the inferno match (kane-mvp) was also pretty good and of course DAT ladder match!!!!!
.
I saw Vengeance 2006 mentioned, it was okay. Edge-RVD was awesome, should have closed the show. Sabu-Cena was okay until that tap out...that ruined not only that much but that event to me. A man like Sabu should never submit. He's been through thumbtacks, barbed wire etc and he taps to an STF? Smh. 
.
Since I mentioned First Blood matches I really miss that match, it sucks they don't have them anymore. The Kane-Austin First Blood match was fun and told an interesting story.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm comparing him as a CONSISTENT character from 02-now. If Lesnar stayed longer I'd have no doubt he'd have one of the most impressive selections of matches EVER by the point, maybe even THE best. The boy was just THAT talented.

Meh, Edge never really did it for me at all. It's not a C2D Punk-type-disdain for him, it's more or less that I feel he's highly overrated in every single aspect. I can name about 10 guys in the company now that I feel are better all around than Edge. I thought he was OKAY. Not like "OMG TURN OFF THE TV" bad, not even bad. Just.... OKAY. The definition of an average world champion to me is Edge


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sabu is trash though. Tapping out to Cena was the least of his problems in the world of wrestling.

@#PHG: safe to say you're more of a Christian guy, eh?

Orton's character was more developed with the whole Legend Killer gimmick. Yet, he's never been THAT character driven during his career. That's really the reason why I'd disagree. And I used to love the guy. So I was marking for everything he did from 2004 - 2010. (2003 was good too, but I was still not much of a "mark" yet)


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Brye said:


> That Hammerstein crowd got better and better every match. :lmao I think they even tied Cena and Orton into the same chant at one point.
> 
> What was the big problem with Orton back then? I mean they boo'd Edge too but not to the degree of Orton. It was less heel heat and more hate heat it seemed.


Yeah Orton got eaten alive at ONS II. I think it comes from him being the antithesis of everything that crowd was about....and that there were a ton of smarks there who remembered his antics during the RTWM.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When I was younger and a blind anti-Cena hater , I was disgusted that such a "Fantastic Technical Wrestler" like Sabu would put over a "talentless no-move wannabe" in such dominating fashion. I actually REALLY thought Sabu was a good worker for a few years when I first started watching....

What the FUCK was I thinking ? :heyman


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> When I was younger and a blind anti-Cena hater , I was disgusted that such a "Fantastic Technical Wrestler" like Sabu would put over a "talentless no-move wannabe" in such dominating fashion. I actually REALLY thought Sabu was a good worker for a few years when I first started watching....
> 
> What the FUCK was I thinking ? :heyman


:lmao

Hard to believe some people out there still think like that. Those damn EC-DUB marks. Guess Cena doesn't jump off chairs and ropes enough to be liked.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's crazy how many people on THIS FORUM are probably still like that, but because they're behind a computer on a Wrestling Forum they believe that they're "knowledgeable fans". Where ever the internet may be , stupidity follows shortly thereafter.

Rock being the GOAT ... What the fuck :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Are you comparing Randy's current character or overall career stretch? Either way I'm gonna disagree with him in a top 3 sense. I'd put Edge above Orton in the character department. He might have been there in the Attitude Era, but c'mon. He can count.
> 
> @Brye ~ Cool man. Enjoy yourself when you watch.
> 
> ...


Santino comedy is very hit or miss with me. Heel Santino in '08 owned, Santino in '11 was sort of fun, but the Santina stuff and his recent stuff has just been bad, imo. :/ I remember Sin Cara/Hunico being strange because Hunico dominated the whole match.



jonoaries said:


> Armageddon 06 is awesome as is No Way Out 06. In fact I think NWO06 is the best event. The great Rey-Orton, a very good Booker-Benoit and the epic Undertaker-Angle match.
> .
> Yeah I miss single brand PPVs, it gives more opportunity to lower card talents. Armageddon 2006 was good too. Kennedy-Undertaker was fun (first blood match was better though), the inferno match (kane-mvp) was also pretty good and of course DAT ladder match!!!!!
> .
> ...


First blood matches were pretty fun but they're the kind of match that need a story around them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> It's crazy how many people on THIS FORUM are probably still like that, but because they're behind a computer on a Wrestling Forum they believe that they're "knowledgeable fans". Where ever the internet may be , stupidity follows shortly thereafter.
> 
> Rock being the GOAT ... What the fuck :lol


I know it is opinion, but sheesh. The "facts" they use to support it too. HE SOLD THIS MANY SHIRTS & MADE THIS MUCH MONEY FROM THIS MOVIE. Since when did that come to play for what they did on the mic & in the ring? That GOAT thread is a pit of poison. You walk in and you're infected.



Brye said:


> Santino comedy is very hit or miss with me. Heel Santino in '08 owned, Santino in '11 was sort of fun, but the Santina stuff and his recent stuff has just been bad, imo. :/ I remember Sin Cara/Hunico being strange because Hunico dominated the whole match.


Heel work in '08 was fun. He's unbearable now. Some people think the entire WWE has gone "kiddie". Wrong. Only some people. One of them being Santino. I can't take seeing him now. Always been a bad worker. At least he had character and humor. Now he's nothing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I was at No Way Out 2012. Liked the event overall. Ziggler/Sheamus, Punk/Bryan/Kane were very enjoyable. Cena/Show was what one would expect. Boring/sleep-inducing/slow/low-quality. Not that that's a surprise.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed. Santino in short is one the people that whenever he's on my TV screen I have to change the channel, because if anybody catches me watching , well... Whatever the hell it is he does.... I'd be embarrassed beyond belief. One of the "childish" things about the WWE along with the likes of Hornswoggle.

The fact that he's the cherry on the SHIT COVERED Sundae that is Zack Ryder's current status within the company just serves to piss me off 10x as much, because I fucking LOVE Ryder (even though he's not a great worker, probably the only exception). Now Ryder gets paired and put on the same level as Santino ? Come on now Vince....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't call him great, but that wouldn't slate Ryder as bad. He's proven he's a good wrestler capable of coming through when the matches matter. So, aside from that bit, I'm right there with you in the frustration department. I should learn to except it, though. It's only hard when he _still_ gets good pops despite jobbing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched this and decided to pass it along

*Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs John Cena vs Wade Barrett (Six Pack Challenge : Night of Champions 2010*

We have a pretty big cast here, as the bell rings I'm expecting Jericho to bump around alot here...........AAANNNDDD he's eliminated just like that. REALLY WWE. You take the second best worker in this match and have him eliminated in like a minute, while Borrett stays in the match ? Okay then, whatever. Cena and Orton face off and the announcers play it off as it's the most epic thing ever (spoiler ; it's not) , although they do have a pretty memorable exchange. IT'S FINISHERS GALORE HERE as there's counters and finishers and counters and finishers all over the place.

It's one of THOSE matches, where there's a huge influx of excitement , followed by nothing really happening, followed by EXCITEMENT, followed by nothing. I'm digging this match though, as honestly these guys work pretty well with one another collectively. Edge is eliminated and we're left with 4 individuals who look like they could have the worst chemistry EVER. Shenanigans ensue which results in the elimination of both Barrett and Cena, in what I must say has to be one of Barrett's most exciting moments ever. 

Things are picking up in the final showdown between Sheamus and Orton. Normally I absolutely HATE their chemistry together, but this is easily their best pairing as they exchange finishing blows, ultimately culminating in an Orton title victory, and a continuation of all of the feuds interdispersed inside this match. Was pretty fun in parts, but could have been alot better with more Jericho (I understand the booking, as Jericho was leaving anyways). Much better than the pretty mediocre FFW match where Sheamus won the title earlier in the year. Should check it out if you have the time.

*****


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Just watched this and decided to pass it along
> 
> *Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs John Cena vs Wade Barrett (Six Pack Challenge : Night of Champions 2010*
> 
> ...


Just out of curiousity, who is the best worker in that match, if Jericho is 2nd?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably John-Boy. He'd be my second pick behind Jericho.

Agree with your thoughts on the match #PHG. It's good. Has it's moments to hold it up. Not great or "omg wow" level of a main event. A fitting end to the PPV nonetheless.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jericho and Edge are 1 and 2. Cena's not as terrible as some people may believe, but that doesn't make him great either. Certainly not up there with the likes of Jericho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's pretty great, actually.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Every WM match of his that is considered good, and there isn't that many of them, is with a guy who is better than him. Not a coincidence. Alot of his matches that he is considered better than (Miz, Rock who wrestled once in 8 years) were bad. Not a coincidence.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best worker in the match ? :cena2

Honestly, if I were to rank those six in terms of all-around greatness, I'd rank them like this ;

CENA > JERICHO >> ORTON > EDGE >>> SHEAMUS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barrett

I have two CENA matches in my top 10 of all time the last time I checked. That's all I really need to say


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cena isn't as good of a worker as Jericho. Go back and watch Jericho's 90's work in Japan, Germany, WCW, and WWF. Cena was never that good. Jericho can carry alot of guys to a good match, too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trust me, I've seen a TON of Jericho in my life and although I feel he's an all-time great for sure, I've always felt as if he was overrated by the masses for some reason. I feel out of the WCW vanilla midgets crop (made me laugh for some reason) , he was well below the likes of Mysterio, Guerrero, and especially Benoit. NOBODY ELSE feels like this and it's just a "me" thing.

I have Cena as a top five WWE worker since 2000 if I last checked correctly. 10th all time on my list currently I do believe


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Every WM match of his that is considered good, and there isn't that many of them, is with a guy who is better than him. Not a coincidence. Alot of his matches that he is considered better than (Miz, Rock who wrestled once in 8 years) were bad. Not a coincidence.


I'd take his work over Triple H & Batista any day so yeah this point is wrong. I'd put him above Orton too. Probably Big Show & Edge as well. Although they're close. Can say I'd take his singles work over Shawn Michaels too when I really think about it. (can't wait to see the reaction that gets)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cena's definitely the best guy in that match career v career. Honestly I think he's trumped Jericho at this point and I actually like Jericho more than Cena. The Jericho that I saw in 2010 kind of sucked and didn't look as good Sheamus or Orton back then either. I'm actually not sure I'd take Jericho over Orton career v career. I'm also not sure I'd even take Edge over Sheamus career v career. Wade Barrett isn't as good Balls Mahoney so whateverthefuck. No idea why I posted this.

EDIT- Jericho was not that good at all in Japan or Mexico. He needed others to carry him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> I'd take his work over Triple H & Batista any day so yeah this point is wrong. I'd put him above Orton too. Probably Big Show & Edge as well. Although they're close. Can say I'd take his singles work over Shawn Michaels too when I really think about it. (can't wait to see the reaction that gets)


Pretty sure *Cactus* is smiling as he reads that :cena2

The whole Shawn/Cena debate in my eyes is a little hard to gauge. I like Shawn's 90s run over Cena in general , but from 2002-2010 it gets a little cloudy for me. I think I'd have Cena over Shawn IF Shawn didn't have that series with The Undertaker that was leaps and bounds above anything else I've seen as a wrestling fan.

On a side note, I don't really attribute the greatness of the HBK-Taker matches to either of them , as I believe that they were just two workers who were MADE for each other. So it kind of works like this for me...

Post 2002 :

Shawn's Matches > Cena's Matches
Cena's Mic Work >>> Shawn's Mic Work
Cena's Performances IN his matches > Shawn's performances

VERY controversial (as I sit here and watch my HOF 2004 DVD)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I could see Jericho being alittle over-rated. I don't think that is a crazy statement, to be honest. And Jericho is one of my favorites of all time. When HBK was retired from 1998-2002, Jericho and Triple H became my favorite wrestlers in that 4 year period. So, I was/am a huge a fan of his. But looking back on it now, I can see him being alittle bit over-rated, to be honest. It also doesn't help that he was a main eventer in a time period where he had to compete with the likes of Austin, Rock, Triple H all in their prime.

On the same token, Cena isn't as bad as the hardcore IWC fan thinks he is. But at the same time, I can count on one hand the amount of great matches he's had now in his decade in the company and 5-6 years as a main eventer. I think the hate is so massive on the internet for him that it convinced some to say. "Hey, he's not _that_ bad." And he isn't. But that doesn't make him a great in-ring performer, either. A decade strong in the company and still waiting for him to have his first great WM match, or carry someone that he is better than. Hasn't happened yet. And the fact that his character is stale may not be his fault, but it doesn't help, either. Guy needs some layers of depth to his character in the worst way.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like Michaels at his best a lot more, but at their worst Cena is probably better. I really hate some of 2000s Michaels and think Cena wipes the floor with him from 02-now. Then again I do hate the worst as well. Throw in 90s Michaels and it actually kinda gets to that 'tough, but IDK' for me. I'd probably use personal bias to give it to Shawn. Throw in the Rockers and I'd definitely, definitely give it to Shawn. The Rockers might be the peak of his career no matter how bat-shit that seem to the people who think WWE Michaels is the greatest of all time. 

Really, I don't think Michaels has had THAT many singles matches better than Cena/Umaga RR07. I doubt he's had five.


EDIT- Cena was the better guy in the Michaels Raw match, BY FAAAAAAAR. And that's a great match.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Don't think I have a ***** Y2J match tbh, hell I might not have a **** 3/4 one for him. I have at least 1 ***** Cena match, and 2 for HBK


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

All you can do is laugh, sometimes. Not only Jericho, but I think Guerrero is alittle overrated, too. Michaels and Hart wipe the floor with both of them, if I'm being completely honest. It's not even a contest.

Also, it's important to note that just because a particular guy doesn't have a ***** match (in someone's opinion) doesn't mean that they aren't a better worker than someone who does have a ***** match (once again, in someone's opinion). You have to take into account quality of oppenents. Takes two to tango.

Post 2002 mic work, maybe. But that's only taking into account one part of one of their careers, and the less creative part. Take into account in the 90s and well, there's nothing revolutionary John Cena has done on the mic..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Pretty sure *Cactus* is smiling as he reads that :cena2
> 
> The whole Shawn/Cena debate in my eyes is a little hard to gauge. I like Shawn's 90s run over Cena in general , but from 2002-2010 it gets a little cloudy for me. I think I'd have Cena over Shawn IF Shawn didn't have that series with The Undertaker that was leaps and bounds above anything else I've seen as a wrestling fan.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's hard to rank the different levels via decades of their careers, but I can gauge fairly well. Seen just about all of Cena's matches and Shawn's important ones from his awesome mid-90's stretch. 

Cena & Punk is what Shawn & Undertaker have. That magic chemistry. Granted Taker vs Shawn matches led to more "5 star" bouts, I stand by my point & your's about workers being MADE for each other.

It's always going to be vexing and a stretch to make these comparisons since someone out there will undoubtedly have their say on the matter. Mic work is a lock in favor for Cena. Performances, yeah, I'd nudge Cena too. Match quality. Probably correct in Shawn. It's hard to say overall since I got a lot from both running through my mind. Throughout their entire career span. Singles wise, only. If I were to include Shawn's Rockers stuff then that wouldn't be fair. That's where his best stuff is, imo. As I say that I immediately think of Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Jarrett from In Your House II: The Lumberjacks aka that PHENOMENAL Intercontinental Championship match, haha.

Sounds like a fun project to try and name our favorite matches from the workers in the NOC '10 six pack challenge. Top 5-10. Ok, maybe Wade doesn't have to be included since he's only been around for a few years + he isn't quite as liked by others (I'm a fan) Replace him with HBK and there we go.

EDIT ~ Oh sheesh. Bret Hart is nowhere near the league of Eddie Guerrero.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

That was a general statement, I wasn't saying that Cena/HBK are better because they have more ***** matches

And I always found post 90s Shawn's mic work besides the Hogan feud and some of 2006 DX(....I was 10) to be awful. I can't think of any good promo from him besides during those 3 time periods


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I could see Jericho being alittle over-rated. I don't think that is a crazy statement, to be honest. And Jericho is one of my favorites of all time. When HBK was retired from 1998-2002, Jericho and Triple H became my favorite wrestlers in that 4 year period. So, I was/am a huge a fan of his. But looking back on it now, I can see him being alittle bit over-rated, to be honest. It also doesn't help that he was a main eventer in a time period where he had to compete with the likes of Austin, Rock, Triple H all in their prime.
> 
> On the same token, Cena isn't as bad as the hardcore IWC fan thinks he is. But at the same time, I can count on one hand the amount of great matches he's had now in his decade in the company and 5-6 years as a main eventer. I think the hate is so massive on the internet for him that it convinced some to say. "Hey, he's not _that_ bad." And he isn't. But that doesn't make him a great in-ring performer, either. A decade strong in the company and still waiting for him to have his first great WM match, or carry someone that he is better than. Hasn't happened yet. And the fact that his character is stale may not be his fault, but it doesn't help, either. Guy needs some layers of depth to his character in the worst way.


Double post (EDIT- OT WAS GOING TO BE BUT I TOOK TOO LONG W/E), but who has Jericho carried that he is better than to a great match? I've thought for a while that if look at Jericho's best stuff it's him being outperformed every time. v Eddie Guerrero, the Rock, Chris Benoit, HHH, Rey Mysterio, re-watched the WMXX match and thought Christian was clearly better, etc. I would even rate him over probably the Rock and definitely HHH, but he wasn't the better guy in those matches.

He was the better guy in the Michaels matches but only one of those is very good anyway (GAB08). I'll give him that. 

Cena was the better guy in some Umaga, Michaels, CM Punk, and Orton matche. He completely 100000% carried Khali and Lashley to probably each guys' best match, and those matches were two months apart. I'm not a big Cena fan or really even a Cena fan at all but the guy keeps the hits coming.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Double post (EDIT- OT WAS GOING TO BE BUT I TOOK TOO LONG W/E), but who has Jericho carried that he is better than to a great match? I've thought for a while that if look at Jericho's best stuff it's him being outperformed every time. v Eddie Guerrero, the Rock, Chris Benoit, HHH, Rey Mysterio, re-watched the WMXX match and thought Christian was clearly better, etc. I would even rate him over probably the Rock and definitely HHH, but he wasn't the better guy in those matches.
> 
> He was the better guy in the Michaels matches but only one of those is very good anyway (GAB08). I'll give him that.
> 
> Cena was the better guy in some Umaga, Michaels, CM Punk, and Orton matche. He completely 100000% carried Khali and Lashley to probably each guys' best match, and those matches were two months apart. I'm not a big Cena fan or really even a Cena fan at all but the guy keeps the hits coming.


Like I said, Jericho probably was alittle overrated. But do I think he was a terrific performer/worker? Absolutely. You can be over-rated by some and still be considered good. The HBK/Jericho Ladder match was great, too. Almost forgot about that one, because I took a break from wrestling in in parts of 2008.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ether said:


> Don't think I have a ***** Y2J match tbh, hell I might not have a **** 3/4 one for him. I have at least 1 ***** Cena match, and 2 for HBK


Jericho vs Michaels Ladder from No Mercy 2008 gets the full 5 from myself. Your theory made me question it too for a split second then that popped up.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I have that at **** 1/2 (tied with vs Eddie FB97 as his best match), but I really need to give it a second watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Eddie @ Fall Brawl '97 :mark: :mark:

Got that at ****1/2 too.

Plenty of great Jericho matches during his career. Regardless if he was the major catalyst behind them or not the list is strong.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I wouldn't ever use the 'more five star/best matches' thing as any kind of comparison. I mean if there's like 20 Wrestler A matches better than any Wrester B match then fair enough, but one or two? Sgt. Slaughter v the Iron Sheik 6/16/84 is better than every Chris Benoit match I've ever seen but I don't see any argument at all for the Iron Sheik being better than Chris Benoit. I would easily take Benoit over Slaughter as well but I see the argument for the other way around.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Yeah, that match was fucking awesome. Not sure where'd I'd put it in my top Eddie matches though, probably top 10 at worst. I recall you saying awhile ago that Eddie could have worked that match with any jobber in the back that night and gotten a good match out of them and I completely agree.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie was magic in the ring. I'll always stand by that point.

Don't know where I'd rank it on a "official" list although it's high in my personal love list. It's something that knocked me on my socks when I first watched it. Eddie had a pretty stellar '97. Especially on those last PPVs. vs Jericho, vs Mysterio @ Havoc & World War 3. What a stretch. Stole all 3 PPVs in a row.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alrighttiiiieeeeeeeeeee Thennnnnn, gonna do top 7 because honestly... It's different. (STRICTLY SINGLES).........

*JOHN CENA*

1. vs CM Punk MITB 2011 : *******
2. vs Brock Lesnar ER 12 : *******
3. vs CM Punk SS 11 : ***** 1/2*
4. vs Umaga RR 07 : ***** 1/2*
5. vs JBL JD 05 : ***** 1/4*
6. vs HBK WM XXIII : ***** 1/4*
7. vs Edge UNF 06 : ***** 1/4*

*Chris Jericho*

1. vs HHH FL 00 : *******
2. vs Benoit RR 01 : ***** 1/2*
3. vs Guerrero FB 97 : ***** 1/2*
4. vs Mysterio BASH 09 : ***** 1/2*
5. vs HBK WM XIX : ***** 1/4*
6. vs HBK UNF 08 : ***** 1/4*
7. vs HBK NM 08 : ***** 1/4*

*Randy Orton*

1. vs Foley BL 04 : ***** 1/2*
2. vs Benoit SS 04 : ***** 1/4*
3. vs HHH NM 07 : ***** 1/4*
4. vs Christian OTL 11 : ***** 1/4*
5. vs Benoit RAW 04 : ***** 1/4*
6. vs Benoit SD 06 : ***** 1/4*
7. vs Christian SS 11 : ***** 1/4*

*Edge*

1. vs Undertaker WM XXIV : ***** 1/2*
2. vs Undertaker SS 08 : ***** 1/2*
3. vs John Cena UNF 06 : ***** 1/4*
4. vs Matt Hardy UNF 05
5. vs Mick Foley WM XXII : ******
6. vs Ric Flair RAW 06 : ******
7. vs Benoit BL 05 : ******

*Sheamus*

1. vs Daniel Bryan ER 12 : ***** 1/2*
2. vs John Morrison TLC 10 : ***** 1/4*
3. vs Big Show HIAC 12 : ******
4. vs Morrison SS 10 : **** 3/4*
5. vs Ziggler NWO 12 : **** 3/4*
6. vs HHH WM XXVI : **** 1/2*
7. vs Bryan RAW 12 : **** 1/2*

*Barrett*

1. vs Bryan SS 11 : **** 1/2*
2. vs Cena HIAC 10 : **** 1/4*
3. vs Cena TLC 10 : **** 1/4*


.... Ummmmmmmmm............. Yeeeaaaahhhhhhhhhh......... Why do people want him pushed exactly ? unk2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ugh, that Punk/Cena SummerSlam match. I bought the PPV for that match and was so *pissed* afterwards.

And the Lesnar/Cena match made no sense at all. Lesnar, a legit MMA ass-kicking machine kicks the shit out of Cena, only for Cena to somehow come back and win? Yeah, not buying it. See, Vince, there's this thing called logic..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You did it. Phenomenal. Now that means I should contribute since it was an idea I conjured up 

Too low on Cena/Barrett HIAC, imo. Loved that match. ***3/4.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*PaulHeymanGuy, *thoughts on the Orton/Sheamus Hell in a Cell? I can't be the only one who loves it and goes ***** *on it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*JackEvans187* , here's the thing about that particular Sheamus-Orton match from HIAC 10. If you rate it as a normal match it's fucking AWESOME and a **** 3/4 - ***** match for sure. However, the fact that it took place in the cell when the cell wasn't even used at all REALLY pissed me off. Couple that with that horrendously stupid steel steps spot (Sheamus does a backbreaker on the steps for some apparent reason) , and we're looking at a **** 1/4- *** 1/2* rating that fluctuates from watch to watch. I can TOTALLY see somebody giving it four though, as if you pretend the cell isn't there it goes up in value by a fair margin.

It all depends on how one values the match type and how the match type should be used. Exciting match for sure , but it fluctuates from time to time.

Yes , *Hailsabin* .... GET ON IT BRO :cena2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I tend to just watch it and enjoy, not really paying attention to whether the Cell's being used enough or not. Valid points though, Sheamus' backbreaker spot was pretty goofy.

EDIT: Oh and by the way, Jericho/Rock from No Mercy '01 is totally missing from your Top 7 brah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Going with a top 5 here. Also, only WWE matches. Which means that's a no go for any other awesome Jericho bouts in WCW.

*John Cena*:

1) vs CM Punk ~ ***** (Money in the Bank 2011)
2) vs Brock Lesnar ~ ****3/4 (Extreme Rules 2012)
3) vs Umaga ~ ****3/4 (Royal Rumble 2007)
4) vs Shawn Michaels ~ ****1/2 (RAW 4/23/07)
5) vs Chris Jericho ~ ****1/4 (Survivor Series 2008)

*Chris Jericho*:

1) vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***** (No Mercy 2008)
2) vs CM Punk ~ ****1/2 (WrestleMania 28)
3) vs Rey Mysterio ~ ****1/2 (The Bash)
4) vs The Rock ~ ****1/4 (No Mercy 2001)
5) vs John Cena ~ ****1/4 (Survivor Series 2008)

*Edge*:

1) vs The Undertaker ~ ****1/2 (Summerslam 2008)
2) vs John Cena ~ ****1/2 (Backlash 2009)
3) vs Matt Hardy ~ ****1/4 (Unforgiven 2005)
4) vs The Undertaker ~ ****1/4 (WrestleMania 24)
5) vs Kurt Angle ~ ****1/2 (Judgment Day 2002)

*Randy Orton*:

1) vs Mick Foley ~ ****3/4 (Backlash 2004)
2) vs Chris Benoit ~ ****1/4 (Summerslam 2004)
3) vs Triple H ~ ****1/2 (No Mercy 2008) 
4) vs Edge ~ ****1/2 (Vengeance 2004)
5) vs Chris Benoit ~ ****1/4 (Smackdown 2006)
Honorable mention to vs Cody Rhodes ~ **** (Smackdown 2011 - Street Fight)

*Sheamus*:

1) vs Bryan Danielson ~ ****1/4 (Exreme Rules 2012)
2) vs John Morrison ~ **** (TLC 2010)
3) vs Randy Orton ~ **** (Hell in a Cell 2010)
4) vs Bryan Danielson ~ ***3/4 (RAW 6/30/12)
5) vs Antonio Cesaro ~ ***1/2 (RAW 11/26/12)

*Wade Barrett*:

1) vs John Cena ~ ***3/4 (Hell in a Cell 2010)
2) vs Sheamus ~ ***1/2 (Main Event 11/8/12)
3) vs John Cena ~ ***1/4 (TLC 2010)
4) vs Randy Orton ~ *** (Smackdown 2/3/12)
5) vs Sheamus ~ **3/4 (RAW 10/15/12)


Haven't seen some matches that probably would have made my lists like Barrett vs Danielson from Summerslam or the Sheamus vs Big Show matches. Star ratings are purely for...fun or reference I guess. These are all personal listings of how I loved these matches. Edge was a hard one. A lot ran through my mind with him. Jericho was obviously a challenge too. LOADS of grand affair there. Cena was almost easy since I know which of his I love the most. Had to insert the Survivor Series '08 match vs Jericho though. Fantastic contest. Adore all aspects of that match. I wonder how the reception will be when people noticed that Jericho vs Triple H Last Man Standing didn't make my list. :hmm:


----------



## IJ (Oct 29, 2010)

Just watched "The Story of Edge" and "Randy Orton: The Evolution of a Predator" and I really liked both. It's nice to see a DVD of the superstars behind the scenes and in their home lives. It really shows how well they can physically act in the ring and play their characters, the 2007 Edge & Orton gimmicks are like polar opposites of how they are in real life. It really put things in perspective for me, especially weird to see Orton and his wife and daughter, I never really pictured him as a family man until I saw how laid back he was backstage.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Currently watching the Punk DVD and loving it. Its amazing how so many on here say Punk is a terrible person in real life and I just got to the part where Joey Mercury says what Punk did for him. I honestly doubt that many on here who bash Punk would do that for a friend. Great though and im only on disk one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HOW. THE FUCK. DID I FORGET PUNK-JERICHO From MANIA XXVIII ?

Honestly Jericho's second greatest match and Jericho's greatest single performance in a match EVER. Seriously, I fucking LOVE that match as again, it fluctuates to me as to which match was truly MOTN at Wrestlemania XXVIII between that and the HIAC match which I also love to the bottom of my heart. The best matches of 2012 > The best matches of any other year save for 97 and 00


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I had to add it. Unbelievable contest. From start to finish. I almost could put it at #1 regardless of what snowflake I attach next to it. I love it that much, too.

It's my favorite match from WrestleMania this year. :mark:


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> HOW. THE FUCK. DID I FORGET PUNK-JERICHO From MANIA XXVIII ?
> 
> Honestly Jericho's second greatest match and Jericho's greatest single performance in a match EVER. Seriously, I fucking LOVE that match as again, it fluctuates to me as to which match was truly MOTN at Wrestlemania XXVIII between that and the HIAC match which I also love to the bottom of my heart.* The best matches of 2012 > The best matches of any other year save for 97 and 00 *


Exactly. I "love" how there is a thread every single week in the general wwe section about how bad 2012 is the worst year ever... We're watching wrestling after all. Matches come first damn!

Believe it or not, i only watched jericho/punk at mania one time. Absolutely loved it. I know what i'm watching tonight!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pop in WrestleMania 28 RIGHT NOW.

Yeah, pardon some bs booking decisions this year isn't a total bust. It's given us damn good wrestling matches. It was discussed a few days ago or something like that about how 1999 wasn't the best "wrestling year", but it thrived for what it was. That's what this year has only in a in ring wrestling capacity. I'm fine with that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's a shame that 2012 has seemingly dropped. Other than Cena/Punk NOC and Show/Sheamus x2 it's kind of gone downhill since mid-year. I stopped watching the TV so I could have missed some stuff, but we were getting a lot of good shit from PPVs, TV and house shows for the first five months this year. It will pick up once MARK HENRY returns, no doubt. This has also been the worst year of Rey Mysterio's career who I think has had the best in-ring career in WWE history. Injured until mid-year and then tagged with shitty-ass Mistico who somehow managed to get worthless TV matches out of probably the greatest TV match wrestler of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought RAW this week had 3 matches well worth seeing. One being really strong (Sheamus vs Cesaro).

Don't know if you watched Yeah1993, but Mysterio finally had a TV match worth seeing again. It was a singles vs Danielson. That's why.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Definitely did not see Rey/Danielson. Had no idea that even happened.  I should start checking spoilers and then watch parts of the shows if something interesting pops up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Go check it out, asap. I still have RAW on my DVR. Gonna rewatch all the good matches again since I enjoyed them so much. Danielson vs Mysterio gets 9 minutes to play with btw. :mark:

don't know if you care, but the third good match from RAW was Cena vs Dolph. Take that for what it is worth to ya. They'll no doubt duke it out again though.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

3 very good tv matches during the last raw indeed. Kind of disappointed by the Main event Kane/Punk because i know these guys can have a good match, they have a pretty good chemistry (kane/punk at backlash 09 is a little 10 min gem with one of the best looking kane's clotheline!).
I guess i was worried about that potential knee injury during the Raw match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The aftermath more than made up for Punker/Kane being a bit on the underwhelming side. Loved the way the show ended.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seems this place was active once I went to bed lol. A couple of thoughts:

To the person who said Eddie Guerrero was overrated: Please go to hell now . Top 10 and fully deserving of being there. Makes me :lmao when he gets called a vanilla midget considering he had more charisma than 95% of any other wrestler I've ever seen. And his height never mattered. Why oh why did he have to leave so soon . 

I'm in the "Jericho is overrated" camp. Always thought his best matches were with guys better than him doing most of the work. Not that he was necessarily carried constantly, but he was rarely THE guy making the match as good as it was.

And finally, Wade Barrett is absolute fucking TRASH and deserves a push about as much as I deserve to be world champion. I'm confused as to why anyone likes him, especially Pyro who is known for only liking the "entertainers". Barrett has no gimmick, no personality, no charisma and hasn't cut a promo worth listening to since the first couple weeks of Nexus. His finisher is worse than Ryback's too. Might be the weakest looking "strike" finisher I've ever seen.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

I want to start my collection of wrestling DVD's and have no idea where to start, does anyone know somewhere in the Uk I can pick some up cheap and if so, what should I look out for?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal said:


> Seems this place was active once I went to bed lol.


Exactly what I thought, lol. And to respond to your part about Pyro liking Barrett. I must say I find it funny. He hates on Orton because "he talks like a robot and has no charisma" yet Barrett sounds exactly the same and should be WORLD CHAMPION~! but wont because he's English. :lol

To leave my thoughts on some of the stuff discussed:
- Smackdown single brand PPVs were awesome in 2003, unlike 2004!

- Raw single brand PPVs are not as bad as some say here. Some are decent but yeah, few are _memorable_ whole way through. I can think of Backlash 04 and Vengeance 05 as awesome PPVs. Yet to go through 06, but I expect some good stuff based on the comments here.

- Orton, Batista & Cena are the best of the post-AE generation, career & talent wise. Lesnar would've been there had he stuck around a bit longer. If Edge counts, him too. From the guys around now, I only see Sheamus with the potential of getting up there, the rest are pretty bland and usually just solid ring workers, which is not exactly hard to find.

- From the 6 pack challenge, Orton > Cena > Jericho > Edge > Sheamus >>> Barrett. It was a very good match btw. I'd rate it at ***1/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raging Eboue said:


> I want to start my collection of wrestling DVD's and have no idea where to start, does anyone know somewhere in the Uk I can pick some up cheap and if so, what should I look out for?


http://www.silvervision.co.uk/  They stop being WWE's European distributor for DVD's at the end of the month, so they are selling TONS of stuff cheap as hell. Plenty of sales, 3 for 2 offers, and a stock clearance sale to get rid of as much as possible .


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

KingCal said:


> http://www.silvervision.co.uk/  They stop being WWE's European distributor for DVD's at the end of the month, so they are selling TONS of stuff cheap as hell. Plenty of sales, 3 for 2 offers, and a stock clearance sale to get rid of as much as possible .


Thanks, just picked up Summerslam 2010, Best of Smackdown 09 and Ric Flair and the four hoursemen in the buy 2 get 1 free deal.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Got the Punk Blu Ray and I loved it. First Blu Ray I've ever gotten, and first doc I've bought in a while too. If I go for another one I heard the new Austin one is amazing right?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Raging Eboue said:


> I want to start my collection of wrestling DVD's and have no idea where to start, does anyone know somewhere in the Uk I can pick some up cheap and if so, what should I look out for?


If your after PPV's from 07-10, there are quite a few on Amazon, just click on where it says New from, company called Zoverstocks has quite a few, new and sealed too.

I did order the first volume of the Survivor Series Anthology, Region 1 as it was cheaper.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

zep81 said:


> If your after PPV's from 07-10, there are quite a few on Amazon, just click on where it says New from, company called Zoverstocks has quite a few, new and sealed too.
> 
> I did order the first volume of the Survivor Series Anthology, Region 1 as it was cheaper.


Thanks, I'll have to take a look at those once I'm done with the first lot I've bought. If they're all from the same company you can save on postage by getting them bundled together right?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Raging Eboue said:


> Thanks, I'll have to take a look at those once I'm done with the first lot I've bought. If they're all from the same company you can save on postage by getting them bundled together right?


My brother orders them for me, but im sure they are packaged/sent seperatly so unsure on the postage regs mate.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

zep81 said:


> My brother orders them for me, but im sure they are packaged/sent seperatly so unsure on the postage regs mate.


Alright, I'll probably just order them individually from amazon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even if you have the postage on each one (think its about £1.50), there are quite a few PPV's new and sealed for around £1.95, with postage that is still only £3.50 per PPV, new and sealed.

There are other companies on there too, might work out cheaper.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Jericho vs Mysterio The Bash - **** 1/4

Austin vs HHH NWO - *****

Both just amazing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's a shame that 2012 has seemingly dropped. Other than Cena/Punk NOC and Show/Sheamus x2 it's kind of gone downhill since mid-year. I stopped watching the TV so I could have missed some stuff, but we were getting a lot of good shit from PPVs, TV and house shows for the first five months this year. It will pick up once MARK HENRY returns, no doubt. This has also been the worst year of Rey Mysterio's career who I think has had the best in-ring career in WWE history. Injured until mid-year and then tagged with shitty-ass Mistico who somehow managed to get worthless TV matches out of probably the greatest TV match wrestler of all time.


You know, when I really sit down and think about it, I think that may be the main reason I despise Ryback ; His utter incompetance in the ring led to WAYYY shittier main events in an era where we're getting **** 1/2+* matches from Punk seemingly every PPV. Imagine at HIAC if we got ORTON as a replacement for Punk and at Survivor Series we got Punk-Orton-Cena. That's two *****+* matches potentially right there. I fear that with Ryback in main events, we're in for a hell of alot less quality wise next year 

As for Barrett, if we ever got a dual main event featuring Barrett in one and Ryback in another, needless to say that I'd be taking a hiatus from the current product, probably just downloading shows after the fact and watching Punk's matches and segments (skipping everything else).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

No Way Out 2012

Sheamus/Ziggler - ***3/4
Santino/Ricardo - DUD
Rhodes/Christian - ***1/2
4-way tag - ***
Beth/Layla - *1/2
Punk/Bryan/Kane - ****
Ryback/jobbers - DUD
Cena/Show - **1/2

- Absolutely loved the triple threat. Other than Bryan disappearing near the end I thought it was one of the more exciting ones I've watched. I also happen to love the offense of all three guys so that helps. The AJ storyline also had virtually nothing to do with the match itself.

- I believe I bumped up Cena/Show from my original rating but I base that on the interference which I felt helped. Big Show was dominant and shit but I just found it really boring.

- Ziggler/Sheamus was so much fun.

- The ending sequence alone in Rhodes/Christian absolutely owns. The match itself is really good too.

- The 4-way tag match really shows what the division has to offer.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

What would you guys say is the weakest PPV offering this year? WWE hasn't had a downright terrible show this year but some were pretty average or felt like extended Smackdown episodes. No Way Out being one of them imo. Elimination Chamber and Over The Limit (minus Punk/Bryan) would be down there too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Finals are done! Now it's time to get my wrestling on!!! 

Okay, now that's out the way let's discuss. The thing about WWE PPVs is that there just isn't a top-down card where every match excelled. Then again, that's impossible. Imo, every wrestling show feature only like 1 or 2 f'n awesome matches. It's just impossible to have 8 f'n awesome matches. By the time we get to the third f'n awesome match, the crowd is way burnt out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The only PPVs I've watched in full are the first five + MITB and some of the ones I've skipped have had some great matches I've caught, including Big Show/Sheamus (HIAC & SVS), Lesnar/HHH (SS), Orton/Ziggler & Punk/Cena (NoC).

Out of those I've caught in full, Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber and MITB are all contenders for the worst. The former had a decent steel cage match, an okay Kane/Cena match (more of a story advancer but I loved the beatdown) and a shitty Rumble match (minus the ending) as well as a horribly overbooked WWE Title match. EC had two underwhelming chamber matches and a disappointing Kane/Cena rematch, I don't remember anything else from it. And MITB was just horrible all around. Sheamus/ADR was boring, Punk/Bryan was HORRIBLE and the ladder matches were nothing memorable either.

I go with MITB, which is sad since last year, it was the best PPV of the year along with Extreme Rules and Elimination Chamber.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Clique said:


> What would you guys say is the weakest PPV offering this year? WWE hasn't had a downright terrible show this year but some were pretty average or felt like extended Smackdown episodes. No Way Out being one of them imo. Elimination Chamber and Over The Limit (minus Punk/Bryan) would be down there too.


Clearly *No Way Out* to me. The world title matches were okay but i don't know, something big is lacking.
Then *Elimination chamber*. Huge disappointement regarding the wwe title match.
I can't decide between Over the limit and Night of Champions for third place


----------



## Heterodox (Nov 18, 2012)

My DVD collection is now on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121031335703#payId

If you don't want to but the whole lot but want a DVD PM me


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> What would you guys say is the weakest PPV offering this year? WWE hasn't had a downright terrible show this year but some were pretty average or felt like extended Smackdown episodes. No Way Out being one of them imo. Elimination Chamber and Over The Limit (minus Punk/Bryan) would be down there too.


I hated No Way Out. I kinda hated Series as well, but that at least had Show/Sheamus. There wasn't a single match on the NWO card I really liked. That put me off watching PPVs and I missed MITB and SummerSlam (though I've gone back and watched some stuff from both shows).


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> I hated No Way Out. I kinda hated Series as well, but that at least had Show/Sheamus. There wasn't a single match on the NWO card I really liked. That put me off watching PPVs and I missed MITB and SummerSlam (though I've gone back and watched some stuff from both shows).


Same, I missed most of the summer because No Way Out bored me..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh, could have sworn I made a post in here about the PPV's that sucked this year. Oh well. RR, EC and NWO are the three that come to mind straight away.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Summerslam might have been my least favorite. That or Chamber. Neither had really any good matches other than Jericho/Ziggler, imo. If I had to rank them...

Extreme Rules
Wrestlemania
No Way Out
Night Of Champions
Royal Rumble
Survivor Series
Over The Limit
Hell In A Cell
Money In The Bank
Summerslam
Elimination Chamber


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Raw Is War 11/27/2000 - WWF World Heavyweight Title: Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin*

***1/2 Man this was good but it wasn't as smooth as the Benoit match but still tones of fun. They did some great mat wresting early then Austin started going to his style of wrestling with the brawling but Angle went back to holds to slow Austin down and basically to prove the point, that he was the better wrestler. Hell I didn't even mind HHH causing the DQ cause it was part of the HHH/Austin feud and was a great way for HHH to get his heat back.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YAYZ! RANKINGZ !

*"All Time Great" Category*

Extreme Rules

*"Great" Category*

Wrestlemania XXVIII

*"Good" Category*

Over The Limit
Night of Champions
Money in the Bank
Summerslam

*"Average" Category*

Night of Champions
No Way Out
Hell in a Cell

*"Below Average" Category *

Royal Rumble 

*"Bad" Category*

Elimination Chamber
Survivor Series

*"All Time Bad" Category*

N/A

(NOTE: Still need to rewatch NWO , Summerslam, Survivor Series, & HIAC)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1) WrestleMania 28 & Extreme Rules
2) Money in the Bank
3) Over the Limit
4) No Way Out
5) Royal Rumble
6) Elimination Chamber

Rest I've only seen select matches from or haven't seen yet. Money in the Bank isn't NEARLY as bad as it was perceived ^. Punk vs Bryan is so the opposite of "HORRIBLE" that I can't even fathom that mindset.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

C'MON *C2D* BRO !

That Punk-Bryan match is off the heezy-fo-sheezy. Seriously, that match is fucking awesome and the only bad part about it is that it couldn't live up to the exponential standards of one of the best pure wrestling matches of our generation (THE best pure wrestling match in almost 10 years to be exact). Punk and Bryan have some crazy mo-fuckin' chemistry that when it comes to pure wrestling, nobody beats those motherfuckers in the E' right now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Finally watched both Punk/Danielson PPV matches the other day and I didn't dig MITB too much either. I'm as much of a fan of a dominant girl as anybody you'll ever find but the AJ crap just sucked whatever potential that match had to be great. Her getting randomly injured and replaced for a X amount of minutes was confusing and I wasn't into the whole thing. It was like a movie with a shitty script, but with two great actors in CM Punk and Daniel Bryan putting in good performances. The actors couldn't really save the script from being shitty, though, and the whole thing suffered. It wasn't horrible, or bad, or even average, but if I was making a MOTY list I wouldn't consider rating it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It tops Over the Limit for me. Different style of match for the two to duke it out in. AJ involvement has never even registered with me once during the match. Liked the finish more, etc.

****1/2 for both. The nudge goes to Money in the Bank.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Extreme Rules 2012

Orton/Kane - ***1/2
Brodus/Zig - **
Rhodes/Show - *1/2
Sheamus/Bryan - ****1/2
Ryback/jobbers - DUD
Punk/Jericho - ****1/2
Layla/Bella Twin - DUD
Cena/Lesnar - ****3/4

- Really an amazing show. Ended up bumping up 4 matches.

- Orton/Kane had a nice little old school feel to it with the brawl around the arena. Surprisingly good stuff for a feud that wasn't really anything. Kane has been on this year.

- Bryan/Sheamus is just great. I'm not always a huge fan of Sheamus in the ring but he looked great here. And my god was Bryan good. Man is a genius in the ring and I really liked how they incorporated the falls.

- Punk/Jericho, really, really impressed me on now my 3rd watch. Grew on me a little the first time but I really got drawn into the emotion of the match this time. Some pretty creative spots too, using the tops of the announce tables. Yeah, I know, Punk probably shouldn't have been able to kick out of the 2nd codebreaker but considering he was champ, in an incredibly emotional/heated feud and in his hometown, I can accept it. Elbow drop thru the table OWNED. Jericho was such an epic heel too. Liked how Punk's sister got involved too and they gave them some focus at ringside. Feel good moment when he jumped into the crowd after too. This rating is the same as the WM one for me but I'd still rank the WM one slightly ahead.

- Cena/Lesnar is such a unique match. Felt the blood in the opening minutes really set the pace for what we were going to see. Tons of creative spots with the MMA aspect coming into play, along with the chain. Lesnar going full kamikaze was breathtaking. Cena's selling of the arm was nearly perfect, imo. The finish is fine as far as I'm concerned. Chain shot to the face with Lesnar moving pretty quickly getting blindsided, followed by an AA on the steps...I'll take it. I agree with anyone that says Lesnar SHOULD have won, because there were so many ways Cena's story could have progressed and it makes Lesnar more dominant. But considering that Cena was booked to win, I think they did it 100% correctly. 

Hot crowd, great matches, awesome show. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye - the biggest advocate of Punk vs Jericho street fight.

Loved the way you worded the end result to Cena vs Brock. You know Brock winning would have been good, logical, and fitting for Cena's current angle. Only it didn't happen. So the way the match was booked considering the planned result WAS indeed done well. Spot on. 100% agree.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Brye - the biggest advocate of Punk vs Jericho street fight.
> 
> Loved the way you worded the end result to Cena vs Brock. You know Brock winning would have been good, logical, and fitting for Cena's current angle. Only it didn't happen. So the way the match was booked considering the planned result WAS indeed done well. Spot on. 100% agree.


It really went up for me on this watch. Lots of really cool sequences I picked up on. Love when Punk essentially goes crazy for a minute or two after Jericho goes after his sister. Jericho going for the GTS to finish the match was a nice touch too. I dunno, thought it all meshed well together.

Exactly. (Y) Cena didn't stop selling the arm or anything either. So different than the end result of that Miz/Cena match. The problem lies in the result, not the booking of the result. I still can't get over what could have been if Cena had gone on a losing streak and either turned heel or started having to work his way back up the card, start questioning himself more, etc. I was more interested in where Cena would be going than Brock, tbh, even though that still interested me.

Also can't get over how epic Brock's dive out of the ring was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More power to you, I say. I dug the match. Not on par with the WrestleMania bout, but it's still pretty great. I'm at ****.

You have too many people wanting to throw the match away b/c:

a) Cena won
b) Cena won using only "two offensive moves"

Lame. Watch the match, people. It's plain as day that the finish was plenty credible. I won't go into detail since I have so many times already, but it was fine. Cena's downward spiral could have been fantastic. So many things in the world of wrestling could have been though. That was another drop in the bucket.

Brock's dive botch, lolz. That beast is insane. Luckily he didn't destroy his knee to where he couldn't work again.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Finally watched both Punk/Danielson PPV matches the other day and I didn't dig MITB too much either. I'm as much of a fan of a dominant girl as anybody you'll ever find but the AJ crap just sucked whatever potential that match had to be great. Her getting randomly injured and replaced for a X amount of minutes was confusing and I wasn't into the whole thing. It was like a movie with a shitty script, but with two great actors in CM Punk and Daniel Bryan putting in good performances. The actors couldn't really save the script from being shitty, though, and the whole thing suffered. It wasn't horrible, or bad, or even average, but if I was making a MOTY list I wouldn't consider rating it.


Yeah, true. Such a shitty match, all that AJ Lee stuff made me puke, tbh. It looked like a bad, pretentious Spielberg movie. Rating: * _(and I'm being generous)
_
Their OTL match fucking ruled, though.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Question about the *Best of Nitro Volume II *Bluray: is there already a list of content?

And I hope that this segment will be on there as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0CIWm592sI.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Punk/Bryan at MITB could have been a lot better had they planned it out differently.

I really enjoyed the idea of the spot where AJ brought in the weapon (kendo stick or chair) and put it in the middle of them. But she did this afetr they'd been beating the piss out of each other with weapons already. Had she done that after the two had gone at it on the ground for 10 minutes, showing the technical prowess but with neither man gaining an advantage, I feel it would have worked a lot better. Almost as if AJ knew that if they carried on with the mat wrestling they'd be here for ever, so she decided to change it up a little bit. I also would have preferred if AJ didn't get injured half way through only to return, it added nothing to the story and nothing to the match.

So yeah, had the actually story of the match made sense, I personally feel as if it could have been better than their OTL clash simply due to the character performances from all three involved. But the story was so meaningless, back to front and unentertaining, it drags the match down a hell of a lot and I wouldn't even consider at a MOTYC for the WWE, nevermind a world-wide MOTYC. **1/2 at best, tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Yeah, true. Such a shitty match, all that AJ Lee stuff made me puke, tbh. It looked like a bad, pretentious Spielberg movie. Rating: * _(and I'm being generous)
> _


Glad somebody agrees with me in regards to that pile of shit of a match. I don't know why it's so hard for some to believe that others don't like the match.

If Austin/HHH 3SOH can get criticized here, Punk/Bryan MITB sure as hell can too!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

It made no sense how a guy can get his ass kicked/demolished, then come back and win in the last few minutes. The booking for Cena/Lesnar was awful, but that shouldn't really be surprising. They killed off any momentum Brock had (and he had a good amount coming into this match). It's almost as if the booking is catered to 8 year old kids...oh wait.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Wait... Maybe I read wrong, but Austin vs. HHH 3SOH is on the level of Bryan/Punk/AJ love triangle crap here?


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

DrugFreeGeorge said:


> Wait... Maybe I read wrong, but Austin vs. HHH 3SOH is on the level of Bryan/Punk/AJ love triangle crap here?


I'm asking myself the same..


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm guessing that I'm one of the few who prefers Punk/Jericho ER over their match at Mania. Their Mania match just didn't make sense. The first half was Jericho trying to get Punk to do some shit to get himself disqualified, then out of nowhere they said "Fuck it, let's just wrestle" and dropped the entire thing completely.

EDIT: Oh God, what did I just read? I'm no fan of Austin/HHH like others but holy shit there's no way the two can be compared. Different match types, different stories, different everything.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm guessing that I'm one of the few who prefers Punk/Jericho ER over their match at Mania. Their Mania match just didn't make sense. The first half was Jericho trying to get Punk to do some shit to get himself disqualified, then out of nowhere they said "Fuck it, let's just wrestle" and dropped the entire thing completely.


I agree. I would much rather watch their Extreme Rules match over their 'Mania match. Their ER match was so much fun and had so many nice spots.

I've watched that match probably 5 times by now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ah damn, I didn't compare the two. I said that if Austin/HHH can get criticized (which a few posters on here don't like), then an irrelevant match like Punk/Bryan is not immune to criticism.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM match is far far superior to their ER match imo . ER was pretty boring for the most part. The stuff with Jericho trying to get Punk to DQ himself was thrown in right before the match and was a nice addition. Jericho tried to get Punk angry, but it wasn't working so Jericho had to change his game plan and beat Punk another way. Makes perfect sense.

Punk/Bryan MITB > HHH/Austin 3SOH . And I'm not too high on the MITB match either .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

A three stages of hell match could just never capture my imagination. For crying out loud these two have been going at it for 50 minutes in matches that go about 20 minutes and by the end no one is able to walk.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nothing wrong with the way in which Cena beat Lesnar (in so far as it being believeable kayfabe wise, cba discussing the booking issue again). Guy got the shit beaten out of him, but was up against a cocky and brutal monster who wanted to hurt him rather than simply win and therefore began to become more of a reckless monster the longer the match went on. Cena as a 10 year veteran being able to to take the beating and just try and stay alive long enough to draw Brock into a mistake made perfect sense and the quick victory was far more believable than Cena having a 3-5 minute comeback where he beats the shit out of Lesnar. He saw an opening, hit him with a steel chain at full force and scored a desperation AA with his last bit of strength. If Eddie can go nearly 15 minutes after cutting an artery and not lose his title, Cena can overcome a Lesnar beating with a quick opening. Its all in the detail and how they get to that finish that makes it work.

Austin/HHH isn't great, heck its barely good. Disjointed, poorly paced, horrendous first fall which makes absolutely no sense and a less than stellar crowd the longer the match goes on. Only thing I can say it excels in is making it feel like a big match during the opening and the finish building to Austin's heel turn at Wrestlemania. Never actually bothered to watch Punk/Bryan MITB. The AJ saga wasn't doing a lot for me and for whatever reason after reading the results I've just never bothered to watch anything from the show aside from Seabs' epic gif of Ziggler's bump over the announce table.

Neither Punk/Jericho match is anything special. Wrestlemania has a good finishing stretch but the bulk of the match disinterests me and the way they toss out the Punk DQ stip and do away with it after 5 minutes feels pointless. Should have been a pure wrestling match with all the personal escalation coming after the match and heading into Extreme Rules. Speaking of the ER match, it just sums up why Jericho should never work a brawl/hardcore match. I remember Punk taking a few great bumps to put over the 'danger' the match should have had and both guys coming in street clothes was a nice touch but it was just too relient on prop weapons for my liking. Stuff with Punk's sister at ringside was cool though.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I guess I'm the only one who thinks Lesnar/Cena is "just" very good, but not great or GOATesque. Sure, it was pretty innovative, brutal and shocking for WWE, the storytelling was damn fine, selling too, but something, I can't really put my finger onto it, something prevents that match from the "great match" label, IMO. Two ref bumps really irked me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was going through my logs and my ratings as of late and I wanted to beg the question ; who is the greatest big match performer ever ? When I say big-match performer I'm talking about Wrestlemania's, Summerslam's, Survivor Series's, Royal Rumble's , and any PPV/TV event that had a match with huge expectations. 

As much shit as he gets from me and everyone else here, it GOTTA be Shawn. Here's his credentials (and a list of all of his ****+ matches on the big four) when it comes to big match experience ;

- BIG MOTHAFUCKIN' SS 88 TAG
- RR 91 vs Orient Express
- WM X vs Razor Ramon (1st Televised WWE Ladder Match)
- SS 95 vs Razor Ramon (Considered by some as better than the 1st)
- SS 96 vs Vader
- SS 96 vs SID
- 1st HIAC vs Undertaker (and GOAT Match)
- SS 97 vs Bret
- RR 98 vs Taker
- SS 02 vs HHH (#11 on my GOAT list)
- 1st Elimination Chamber
- WM XIX vs Jericho
- SS 03 vs Team Bischoff
- WM XX vs Benoit vs HHH (# 8)
- WM XXI vs Kurt Angle
- SS 05 vs Team Smackdown
- WM XXII vs Vince Mcmahon (Love this ishhh)
- WM XXIII vs John Cena
- SS 07 vs Randy Orton
- WM XXIV vs Ric Flair
- WM XXV vs Taker (#3)
- SS 09 vs Legacy
- SS 09 vs HHH vs Cena
- WM XXVI vs Taker (#5)

When I look at Shawn, I see a guy who has more ***** than anybody else in the WWE but a guy who isn't the GOAT... Can somebody make sense of this for me ?

BTW, Cena-Lesnar is 10th of my GOAT matches list :cena2


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm just sick of special ref stipulations , its all the same.

Wrestler hits a move , reaction shot of ref. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm guessing that I'm one of the few who prefers Punk/Jericho ER over their match at Mania. Their Mania match just didn't make sense. The first half was Jericho trying to get Punk to do some shit to get himself disqualified, then out of nowhere they said "Fuck it, let's just wrestle" and dropped the entire thing completely.


I preferred the Chicago Street Fight to the WrestleMania match. I still need to watch Extreme Rules from a TV perspective. That may or may not change my feelings on the match opposed to when I viewed the shows live in attendance.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

JoeRulz said:


> I guess I'm the only one who thinks Lesnar/Cena is "just" very good, but not great or GOATesque. Sure, it was pretty innovative, brutal and shocking for WWE, the storytelling was damn fine, selling too, but something, I can't really put my finger onto it, something prevents that match from the "great match" label, IMO. Two ref bumps really irked me.


I do think it's a great match, but I too feel it's very overrated around here. It's brutal, and a fun match to watch with Cena getting destroyed, as well as showing Lesnar for the monster he is. But I didn't get much out of it except that. The ending still blows imo (though it's not as terrible as some make it out), and while the brutality keeps the interest high, the pace and sequences don't keep me interested. Plus I haven't really had any desire to watch the match again since the last time I saw it 6 or so months ago. I don't get how someone could put it amongst the greatest of all time, but this isn't the only match in the last few years I feel that way about. It's the same thing with Taker/HHH WM27, Taker/HHH WM28, and Lesnar/HHH SS (although the last one isn't quite as bad).

As far as the Punk/Jericho matches go, I 100% go with the WM match over the ER match. ER was a great match, WM was a damn-near, if not a classic contest. Excellent wrestling, psychology, and some storytelling thrown into the mix, not to mention it feeling like a Wrestlemania quality championship match in regards to the two self-proclaimed "Best in the Worlds" going at it at a top level for the top prize in the business. Love the match and it's easily MOTN and second best MOTY imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk-Jericho is one of the shining examples that storytelling is still prevalent in today's wrestling. It's one of those "measuring stick" matches in all honesty, because if you want to know what somebody's taste in wrestling is , just ask them what they believe is better ; Rock/Cena or Punk/Jericho. 

The DQ stipulation was wonderfully done and the match had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. When it comes to WWE Championship matches at Wrestlemania, I'd have it just below Austin-Rock and Flair-Savage as the third greatest WWE Championship match in Wrestlemania history. Alot of people may not feel as strongly about it as I do, but I believe it's better than the end of an era Cell match because of it's subtle storytelling being superior to the HIAC's "in-your-face" type story.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Subtly is great especially with Punk's matches with Jericho and Bryan where they add a lot of little notes throughout the match but what Taker/HHH/Michaels did in Hell in a Cell trumps everything I've seen as far as storytelling goes imo. That match was mainly all about story then brutality. Punk/Jericho had the best _wrestling_ match at WM28, one of the best this year in fact but End Of An Era is a totally different beast. Some may even call it more of an experience, an epic encounter, a the brutal finality of an incredible story arc over just a _wrestling_ match. It's the Match Of The Year for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 18-8-2005)*

Before heading into SummerSlam, this match is the official go-home towards the biggest show of the summer and is a rematch in Toronto from 2004's SummerSlam. I remember watching it a long time ago but on a rewatch, I consider it even better than the first watch. Just smartly worked and Orton does a great job as the man that dominates most of it. From the slow first couple of minutes to him getting a bit more desperate after that thumb to the eye, the numerous clubbing blows to the chest and the Spike DDT, Orton is so good at playing the heel. I also liked how he dealt with the Gutwrench Neckbreaker botch here. He tries it twice but is unable to slam Benoit so instead of making them both look stupid, he puts on an arrogant smirk and simply gives Benoit a regular DDT. After building momentum and hitting his Rolling Germans as well as the Diving Headbutt, Benoit has to deal with Orlando Jordan's distraction which gives Orton enough time to hit the RKO for the victory. These two have unreal chemistry together and what's funny is that this might be one of their weaker matches. ******

SS 05 here I come!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I have to ask, did Benoit ever beat Orton post SS04?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> I have to ask, did Benoit ever beat Orton post SS04?


No Holds Barred match at SD 27/1/2006. If you count DQ, he also beat him in all but one of the Best of 7 series where Orton filled in for Booker T.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^Ah, I do remember the best of 7 stuff and how the first couple of matches Benoit beat Orton by DQ. I also know in a tag match in 04 I think a couple months before SS of some kind (think it was elimination) Benoit made Orton tap. But yeah, it always felt like Orton had Benoit's number. Much like how it felt like Benoit always had HHH's number... and HHH always had Orton's number. Hmmm...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AHHH , That match right before the Royal Rumble in 2006. They played Orton tapping out to Benoit over and over again in the Rumble packages to heavily suggest that they might give Benoit another run. Could you imagine if booking went more like this ;

Benoit wins Rumble
Taker beats Angle at NWO 06
Benoit-Taker main event of WM XXII

I think I might have just came a little.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> AHHH , That match right before the Royal Rumble in 2006. They played Orton tapping out to Benoit over and over again in the Rumble packages to heavily suggest that they might give Benoit another run. Could you imagine if booking went more like this ;
> 
> Benoit wins Rumble
> Taker beats Angle at NWO 06
> ...


You just read my mind! 

Is there a time machine that can take us back to 2006? Damn, such a missed opportunity.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just got a whole bunch of Red Rep from Rock marks , not because I said anything bad about the Rock, but because I said HHH-Lesnar was better than Rock/Cena and that Rock/Cena is heavily overrated. Rock316AE has red repped me like 6 times already , the same guy who gave Rock/Cena **** 1/2 :lol

Whatever, I just wish we had to get that Benoit-Taker matchup. I wish Benoit was still here so we could get a 2012 Punk against him in what would have **** 1/2 implications for sure. I'm confident that Vengeance 2007 would have tore the house down with those two if given the time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sometimes I wonder how much red rep I would have gotten had I joined this place more recently or the likes of RockCOCKSUCKERAE had joined years ago. These days I just don't have the effort to post about numerous things such as Rock being average in the ring and cutting terrible promos or Angle being a horrible _professional_ wrestler .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Whatever, I just wish we had to get that Benoit-Taker matchup. I wish Benoit was still here so we could get a 2012 Punk against him in what would have **** 1/2 implications for sure. I'm confident that Vengeance 2007 would have tore the house down with those two if given the time.


If there's one good thing that came out of Benoit leaving this world in June 07 of all times, it's the fact that he never lived to job to somebody who is talent-wise a million planets beneath him like Punk. 

But I wish he had still been around in 07 and not been drafted to ECW. No doubt they would have put the belt on him after Edge was injured in that summer. It sucks that he's only a one time World Champion (two if you count WCW) and I hope WWE writers have enough sense that they would have let Benoit be the World Champion if him and Khali were the best options available. Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit, not that it matters anymore.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Benoit in 06 would've been epic. Benoit is arguably the greatest wrestler of all time and Taker's run from 2006-2009 is one of the best of all time match quality wise. Taker could've had a second 5 star match in two months. 

Taker/Guerrero as well was a missed opportunity. Armageddon 2004 is the closest we're going to get to them having a match unfortunately. But their interactions were awesome.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I watched the WM28 Blu Ray last week to see if I would have different takes on any of the matches. Punk/Jericho, the match overall was good, but not great, IMO. The 2nd half of the match was much better than the first half, IMO. The first half was worked at a really slow pace. And usually I have no problem with that. Faster pace doesn't necessarily mean better match. But in this match's case, I thought the first half dragged alittle bit. The second half was much better, and especially, the last few minutes or so was excellent, IMO. I just wish they worked a tiny bit faster pace in the 1st half. And Jericho/Punk are two of my current day favorites, but overall, I think they could have done alittle better (especially in the 1st half). I don't know, maybe my expectations were too high for this match, but I wasn't expecting ***** either. I don't know, I just think both guys are capable of better. Still, this wasn't a bad match by any stretch, it was good, just not great, IMO.

Rock/Cena was a tiny bit better than I remember, but still very mediocre/average. The thing is, I never expected a great match to begin with. So, it's not like I had high expectations going in. But I think they pretty much worked to their potential at that period of time. Rock had only wrestled once in the last 8 years and that isn't a good match-up for Cena. Cena isn't good enough to carry a guy who had only worked once in the last 8 years to a very good/great match. Poor time allotment on Vince's part, too. No way these guys should have worked a half-hour. Way too long. 

Undertaker/Triple H was just as amazing as I remembered.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Sandrone*, your idea of Taker having two ***** matches in a one year span has led me to look at my own rankings and ask ; who are the only individuals to wrestle two ***** matches in a one year span... Well according to my rankings, here are the WWF/WWE wrestlers :

Bret Hart (SS 96/WM XIII)
Steve Austin (SS 96/WM XIII)
Triple H (RR 00/FL 00)
Shawn Michaels (WM XXV/WM XXVI)
Undertaker (WM XXV/WM XXVI)
John Cena (MITB 11/ER 12)

Trips being the only individual to accomplish the feat within one calendar year. If you include WCW, Flair and Steamboat go into the category as well. Bret-Austin have the shortest amount of time between ***** matches, with a gap of only 4 months.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guys with ***** matches in a one year period:

Flair/Windham x2 in 86 and 87.
Flair/Steamboat x3 in 89.
Austin/Bret x 2 in 96 and 97.
Undertaker/HBK x2 in 09 and 2010.

And I think that's it .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only two I have are Austin and Bret... against each other... SVS 96 and WM13. 

Bret has three ***** matches in 3 years (Bret/Owen WM10 and the two matches above)
Taker has two ***** in 3 years (Taker/Angle NWO 06 and Taker/HBK WM25)
Austin has three ***** in 4 and a half years (The two matches above and Austin/Rock WM17)
Kurt Angle has two ***** in 3 years (Angle/Benoit RR03 (Greatest Match of All Time) and Taker/Angle NWO 06)

Angle also has two high ****3/4 matches in a 2-3 week span in 03 (Lesnar/Angle Ironman match and the Taker/Angle SD match two or three weeks before it).


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I've never seen Angle/Benoit RR . How long was the match?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just about 20 minutes.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I saw Stephanie/Vince from No Mercy 03 getting some love a few pages back and I couldn't agree more...as weird as it sounds lol. The storytelling is actually off the charts awesome and the Stephanie comeback sequences are ridiculously good. Crowd are well into it and Cole/Tazz are great. Fantastically fun little match imo. It's all based on emotion and a great example of David vs. Goliath. Good stuff.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Stephanie/Trish is another real fun match. Stephanie good performer.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Stephanie/Trish is also a great match too, yes, along with Steph/HHH/Jericho from Raw in 02. Steph learning how to work a match from DAT GAME lol. Seriously though, nothing to blow you away or anything like that but they're sure as hell fun to watch. She came a long way from her first forays in the ring with Ivory I think it was when she won the belt lol. Her forearms and monkey flip to Lita when Lita won the belt off her on Raw still make me :lmao though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I saw Stephanie/Vince from No Mercy 03 getting some love a few pages back and I couldn't agree more...as weird as it sounds lol. The storytelling is actually off the charts awesome and the Stephanie comeback sequences are ridiculously good. Crowd are well into it and Cole/Tazz are great. Fantastically fun little match imo. It's all based on emotion and a great example of David vs. Goliath. Good stuff.


I enjoy that match. Stephanie does an excellent job as the underdog, Vince plays the psychopath out of control father perfectly and Michael Cole is just humorous to listen to. "HIT HIM IN THE DAMN HEAD! HIT HIM IN THE DAMN HEAD!" :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I enjoy that match. Stephanie does an excellent job as the underdog, Vince plays the psychopath out of control father perfectly and Michael Cole is just humorous to listen to. "HIT HIM IN THE DAMN HEAD! HIT HIM IN THE DAMN HEAD!" :lmao


Tazz is my favorite. "GO!! GO GIRL!!" 

:lmao

Great fun lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I love how the match and the end of Taker/Lesnar set up nicely the Taker/Vince match as a match people wanted to see just to see Taker kick Vince's ass, beat him within an inch of a life before finally putting an end to it and burying him alive. I remember as a kid watching Taker kick the living shit out of Vince the whole match and loving every second of it, more so than any other beatdown in the history of the company.

Then Kane happened.


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

For people who got attitude dvd, how was it? Was it worth the amount you paid(I see it selling for $25). It does have WWF in it right(like no blurred out logos)? And it doesn't censor stuff like weapon shots,blood or anything?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

dxbender said:


> For people who got attitude dvd, how was it? Was it worth the amount you paid(I see it selling for $25). It does have WWF in it right(like no blurred out logos)? And it doesn't censor stuff like weapon shots,blood or anything?


Documentary is under an hour long, so everyone is disappointed with that. Hardly anything censored though which is good. All depends on how much you are interested in the match listings as to whether or not you should get it tbh.


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

KingCal said:


> Documentary is under an hour long, so everyone is disappointed with that. Hardly anything censored though which is good. All depends on how much you are interested in the match listings as to whether or not you should get it tbh.


Based on what's on each disc, I think disc 1 is only thing I'm interested in(which I think is just documentary). Which I can prob find online somewhere


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Just watched Bobby Lashley vs John Cena GAB 2007 for the first time and holy crap that match was BEAST!

Cena really proved himself during his '06-'07 reign. It's just so unfortunate that instead of the getting the recognition he truly deserved, it's the years when hating Cena became the popular thing to do. Seriously, which other wrestler had the work ethic like John Cena did back in 2007? Talk about the main guy. The guy to get the job done. The guy that never disappointed. The guy who freaking delivered PPV after PPV yet for some reason wrestling fans saw it as a reason to boo?

Cena is by far the best damn worker in the company. Yes most would say Punk or Bryan but when it comes to psychology Cena has them beat by far. The edge Cena has over everyone on the WWE roster is his timing. He just knows when to do things. He just knows when it's the right moment to leg trip a guy for the STF, go in for AA. Cena is just an incredible worker and this match is just another example of it. Definitely one of the most underrated/under appreciated wrestler amongst the IWC.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Just watched Bobby Lashley vs John Cena GAB 2007 for the first time and holy crap that match was BEAST!
> 
> Cena really proved himself during his '06-'07 reign. It's just so unfortunate that instead of the getting the recognition he truly deserved, it's the years when hating Cena became the popular thing to do. Seriously, which other wrestler had the work ethic like John Cena did back in 2007? Talk about the main guy. The guy to get the job done. The guy that never disappointed. The guy who freaking delivered PPV after PPV yet for some reason wrestling fans saw it as a reason to boo?
> 
> Cena is by far the best damn worker in the company. Yes most would say Punk or Bryan but when it comes to psychology Cena has them beat by far. The edge Cena has over everyone on the WWE roster is his timing. He just knows when to do things. He just knows when it's the right moment to leg trip a guy for the STF, go in for AA. Cena is just an incredible worker and this match is just another example of it. Definitely one of the most underrated/under appreciated wrestler amongst the IWC.


Well said. But again... ITZ ALL ABT MOVEZZ!!!!!!1111!!1

Vince officially burned the bridges between Cena and the smarks when he continued to push him as hard as before when they started booing so since then, he's become the public enemy #1 with the hardcore fans. Although I must say that the hate has been toned down in the last couple of years and some are starting to recognize what a talent he truly is.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cena not being a good wrestler (which is obviously untrue...) hasn't got *that* much to do with it, I think. It's mostly the fact they find him outright annoying, which is something I understand. Honestly I never want to see Cena pick up a microphone because I don't like his promos and never have.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Cena proved himself the big PPV matches as he usually does these last several years. The problem is the other weeks of TV where he is either very boring or frustrating to watch. As a TV viewer and WWE I feel he deserve the criticism for the crap every week (yes I understand booking/McMahon have a hand in it too) just as much as matches like he's had with Michaels, Lesnar, Umaga, Punk, etc. That's just my opinion, though.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Well said. But again... ITZ ALL ABT MOVEZZ!!!!!!1111!!1
> 
> Vince officially burned the bridges between Cena and the smarks when he continued to push him as hard as before when they started booing so since then, he's become the public enemy #1 with the hardcore fans. Although I must say that the hate has been toned down in the last couple of years and some are starting to recognize what a talent he truly is.


Cena has always been a very good talent but in terms of making people care about what he does 80% of the time he fails at that.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena's booking is what makes people hate him and I completely understand, even as a huge mark for the guy. Holy fuck it just gets so redundant that even I get sick of him some times. He wasn't really any good in the ring until 06/07 though. That much I accept. But he more than proved himself during that time and for anybody to say he can't work now is a joke truth be told. Put John Cena in a big match situation and 9 times out of 10 he will deliver. While the hate has died down in recent years, I still think he's criminally underrated by a lot of folks, mostly idiotic haters who still think HE CNT WRASSLE DURR. Other people simply don't like him, including some folks who post in here and that's perfectly fine because there is sound reasoning behind it. I swear if that heel turn ever happens this place and every smark alive will be all over his dick and proclaiming him the best thing ever. Watch it happen lol. Bunch of bandwagoners.

EDIT - Btw, the Best of PPV 2011 Blu-Ray just went on sale on SilverVision for £10.99 for those of you who were waiting for it to come down like me lol. Ordered it along with Definitive Ric Flair Collection for £6.99 finally. :mark:


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I got to respectfully disagree with Starbuck, I enjoyed Cena's matches in 2003, Namely Taker @Vengeance and Angle @No Mercy. Had a decent 2004 then bounced back in 05 with Angle @NWO and JBL @Judgment Day. I can't really recall a moment that Cena was just outright horrid in the ring, even in 06 and 08 where I was most critical of his booking.
______________

WWE Superstars Inaugural Episode (4/16/2009)

Undertaker vs. Matt Hardy- ***
Christian vs. Finlay- **1/4
Cody Rhodes vs. Shane McMahon- *1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

He wasn't atrocious or anything and he did have the odd gem from 03-05. I meant that he didn't hit his stride and start pulling out great matches every month until around 06/07, funnily enough, when his character started going to shit lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena was good in 2003 but a bit uncoordinated with his moveset, then he turned face and became a patterning "5 move" guy but the crowd ate it up in 2004. (his only memorable matches from that year are No Way Out, WM20 and the June match with Taker) His Smackdown TV matches were terrible in 05 but on PPV, he delivered most of that year and got better after working with actually good workers like Jericho & Angle instead of Orlando Jordan. But yeah, he only became great in 06-07.

*SummerSlam 2005:*

_Orlando Jordan vs Chris Benoit - N/A_
- Can't rate this one for obvious reasons. The match consists of a punch by Jordan, a German Suplex by Benoit followed by the Crossface and it lasts 25 seconds! But it is awesome in its own way because the crowd is hot for the short amount of time it lasts and Benoit finally gets the US Championship!

_Edge vs Matt Hardy - **1/2_
- In under 5 minutes, it doesn't really manage to do much. Despite the interesting background storyline that is surrounded by real life drama, the match doesn't last enough to display the hatred they have for each other. They do hit each other with stiff punches and kicks but it ends way too fast. Matt's face hits the ringpost and after taking a few stiff punches and kicks, the match results in a no contest victory for Edge. I guess their Unforgiven match will be the one to truly deliver so I'm eagerly waiting to get there.

_Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero - ***1/2_
- Fuck, this custody of Dominick storyline is fucking stupid but as a match, this one is good. The ladder is put to great use throughout the match and rather than focus on mat wrestling, they go all out with memorable spots and innovative use of the ladder. Although there's focus on the family business with Vickie and Dominick both getting involved at one point or another, the wrestlers do a great job when it's about them. Several remarkable moments such as the Back Drop on the ladder leaning on the vertical one and Eddie doing his Slingshot Somersault onto a sandwiched Rey between two ladders. I also noticed the DVD version I watched has silenced Eddie's little rage when Vickie forgets to come out in time. Rey unhooks the briefcase to retain the custody of his son and I hope this terrible storyline is over before they close this feud inside a steel cage a few weeks after.

_Kurt Angle vs Eugene - ***_
- Pretty entertaining for the short amount of time it gets. Angle destroys Eugene which is all I ask for, Eugene gets booed and also hits a few "nostalgic" moves from his "heroes". Just a little fun match.

_Randy Orton vs The Undertaker - ****_
- I was sleeping on this one for quite a while. On this watch, I am not sure if I prefer it to their Wrestlemania match or not which says a lot. They get plenty of time and both men do an excellent job wrestling a well paced match with all their signature spots hit. Orton gets the victory after his father poses as a fan and distracts Undertaker. Taker also does a great job selling the leg injury which Orton worked on throughout the match. Just a damn good match and the perfect follow-up for Orton's SummerSlam career after the classic from 2004 with Benoit. And while I'm here, I gotta say that I like the way Taker sells the RKO with the jumping. It makes the move look a lot cooler.

_John Cena vs Chris Jericho - ****_
- Not as good as I previously remember it being but still great. The problem is the first half is pretty slow but after Cena hits that Diving Legdrop on Jericho as he's entering the ring, things get rolling. An extremely hot crowd with the dual chants ("Let's go Cena/Let's go Jericho") and it looks like both men are even more motivated to speed it up after that. After escaping the Walls, Cena gets Jericho up for a body slam that he turns into a FU for the win. This is the first time Cena started getting prominently booed by a section of the crowd although in here, it's more of Jericho-favoritism than Cena hate. And I can't blame fans for rooting for Jericho after that awesome backstage promo he cut earlier in the PPV. But I have to add that I didn't like the involvement of Bischoff in this storyline all that much. It felt so forced with them making Cena look like some kind of one-man army which didn't help him with the hardcore fans.

_Batista vs JBL - ***_
- A lot better than their Great American Bash match for sure. This is just under 10 minutes and with the No DQ stipulation, they get to go a bit more all out. A lot more exciting and the hometown crowd is hot for Batista. They make it work for the amount of time they get just fine and the Powerbomb on the steel steps was a good way to end this.

_Hulk Hogan vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/4_
- Shawn totally carried this. In the build-up, Hogan was too busy with his reality show while HBK cut those awesome promos, specially the one in Montreal and the Larry King mockery segment and in the ring, he does the same thing. Hogan is limited, slow and sticks to playing it safe for understandable reasons while HBK does all the hard work and also oversells the moves as revenge to Hogan pussying out of a rematch where HBK would win to make it even between them. The overselling makes the match a lot more entertaining, though. But I don't know why there was two ref bumps. A Bret Hart return was heavily teased with how much HBK talked about him the week before this show and him putting the Sharpshooter on Hogan after a "We Want Bret" chant but nothing came out of it. HBK hits a bloody Hogan with a chair as well as the Sweet Chin Music, but Hogan still hulks up and hits his predictable "moves of doom" for the victory. Average ending to a great PPV.

*Overall:* ***3/4 out of ***** (One hell of a PPV without a single terrible match. Two great ones in the middle of the card, others are fun stuff while the lower rated matches are fun. I also have to say the star power is strong for this PPV despite the lack of Triple H. Just look at the list of legends in it. Benoit, Eddie, Mysterio, Orton, Undertaker, Edge, Cena, Jericho, Hogan, HBK, Angle, Batista... and nowadays, WWE doesn't have 1/10th of this.)


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

The Hardcore Show said:


> Cena has always been a very good talent but in terms of making people care about what he does 80% of the time he fails at that.


What? Cena is one of the few people on the roster people care about.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

-Mystery- said:


> What? Cena is one of the few people on the roster people care about.


If people really cared about what he was doing wouldn't WWE be a little more popular right now? Besides other then what he has done with CM Punk, The Rock, & Brock Lesnar Most of the time people just roll the eyes at what he's doing. I mean how many people cared about his feud with Kane, Big Johnny, Big Show or even the mess that is his feud with Ziggler right now?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Cena was good in 2003 but a bit uncoordinated with his moveset, then he turned face and became a patterning "5 move" guy but the crowd ate it up in 2004. (his only memorable matches from that year are No Way Out, WM20 and the June match with Taker) His Smackdown TV matches were terrible in 05 but on PPV, he delivered most of that year and got better after working with actually good workers like Jericho & Angle instead of Orlando Jordan. But yeah, he only became great in 06-07.
> 
> *SummerSlam 2005:*
> 
> ...


My first PPV I ever ordered as a kid (Y) Loved every minute of it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Never liked Cena and never will. He's a good worker though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I ordered Summerslam 2005 on PPV as well with a few friends. When the show came on air, Benoit was already the United States champion and the crowd was going nuts, thought I could have potentially missed a **** match ........ Wanted Eddie to beat Rey SO SO SO badly it was insane. Me and my friends were split on Hogan/HBK , as a few of us (including myself) thought of Hogan to be the GOD of wrestling 

.... On a side note, I've been trying to put together a big BROCK package for Christmas , so I got my parents to pick me up his book and I've also ordered a few shirts online. Anybody know where I can get my hands on a Lesnar autograph for 50 bucks or so to complete my collection ? Going to have a designated place in my room to hang my big Summerslam 2012 poster with my (hopeful) Lesnar autograph next to it. Looking to get some Orton, Bret, Punk, and Piper posters too so I can have a nice autograph collection in my room. Already got it done with Hogan right over my bed :hogan


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels*
_RAW 1/12/2009_

Whenever I see ‘John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels’ I get pretty fuckin excited. To my knowledge they’ve only had 4 singles matches together. The only one I haven’t seen yet was just two weeks after this one. The driving factor here is Shawn’s IMMENSE character work. Instantly from the entrance he comes off so angry, so bitter at being aligned with JBL. That carries on throughout the whole match and ultimately reflected the way he wrestled. 

The first half of the match had some great storytelling as Cena used his size and strength to his advantage but could never give Shawn any space, because when he did he lost every time. Of all things Michaels would get the advantage and go straight to a submission (Figure 4 & Crossface). Another sample of how Michaels’ mentality had seemingly changed due to his attitude towards JBL. Cena eventually realizes what’s going on and goes the smart route and locks in a bear hug. This was on RAW but the pacing made it feel like a big time PPV main event, building and building with every move. 

The ladder half of the match is where it gets exciting. Having wrestled each other before, they countered their signature moves several times and eventually hit their finishers, but were too exhausted to get the cover in time to pull out a win. Cena locks in the STFU and the look of pure desperation on JBL’s face is fantastic as he slowly tried to edge the bottom rope towards Michaels. Once Michaels grabbed it the anger just radiated off him, as if he was saying “FUCK YOU LAYFIELD, I DON’T NEED YOUR HELP!” The finish is so sudden and so awesome the camera hardly even caught it. The way Shawn walks out without saying or doing anything makes him look like such a badass. Incredible match.

***** 1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Yeah, true. Such a shitty match, all that AJ Lee stuff made me puke, tbh. It looked like a bad, pretentious Spielberg movie. Rating: * _(and I'm being generous)
> _
> Their OTL match fucking ruled, though.




but that average ladder match from Hardcore Justice this year was **** worthy? I call shenanigans!



Starbuck said:


> I saw Stephanie/Vince from No Mercy 03 getting some love a few pages back and I couldn't agree more...as weird as it sounds lol. The storytelling is actually off the charts awesome and the Stephanie comeback sequences are ridiculously good. Crowd are well into it and Cole/Tazz are great. Fantastically fun little match imo. It's all based on emotion and a great example of David vs. Goliath. Good stuff.


(Y)

I love it. Funny when I pimped it out to my brother b/c he claimed he has a hard time watching it due to it being a father beating up his daughter. :lol

Never knew he had such a sensitive heart. That match is awesome.

Summerslam 2005 is pretty boss overall. Cena vs Jericho stole the show for me.

Finished Survivor Series 2009 & Summerslam 1999 tonight. Maybe I'll do a review in a bit. Or tomorrow. Good shows. I liked Summerslam more. The overall more consistent PPV. It HAS to be the strongest PPV of '99. Easily.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> but that average ladder match from Hardcore Justice this year was **** worthy? I call shenanigans!


All this Xmas joy is hurting your brains, nothing from HJ hit the **** mark. :harden


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

The Hardcore Show said:


> If people really cared about what he was doing wouldn't WWE be a little more popular right now? Besides other then what he has done with CM Punk, The Rock, & Brock Lesnar Most of the time people just roll the eyes at what he's doing. *I mean how many people cared about his feud with Kane, Big Johnny, Big Show or even the mess that is his feud with Ziggler right now?*


You seem to be confusing smarks with casual fans.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

I watched Survivor Series 2003 and I don't know why people crap on this show. To me match quality isn't the only important aspect of a ppv. With the exception of the tag team title match which wasn't that bad, every match either was good to great and/or had the right people winning. The Cuban segment didn't drag. This show also set up 2 Mania XX matches with Brock/Goldberg and Kame/Taker. Overall 7/10; it was entertaining throughout and didn't feel like a waste of time(unlike current WWE shows).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know about others, but Survivor Series 03 is a pretty good show. Enjoyed both elimination matches a lot as well as Taker/Vince but the main event was terrible. Not bad enough to drag the show down, though. Don't remember what else was on the show, lol.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh, I thought Edge vs Matt Hardy at Summerslam was a shoot for the _longest _time... Their cage match at Unforgiven was really great, though.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Team Bischoff vs. Team Austin is my favourite Survivor Series Elimination match of all time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't know about others, but Survivor Series 03 is a pretty good show. Enjoyed both elimination matches a lot as well as Taker/Vince but the main event was terrible. Not bad enough to drag the show down, though. Don't remember what else was on the show, lol.


Really enjoyed that show. Thought Shane/Kane was really fun too. Love that feud.

My favorite SVS Elimination Match is the '05 one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed. I really bought into the RAW vs SMACKDOWN rivalry, and I was marking for Smackdown in hopes that they would FINALLY get the respect they deserved damnit !

Hahaha , good times. Here's an interesting question ; greatest WWF/WWE match to ever take place in the month of December ? For me , it's a toss up between the fantastic HBK-HHH RAW 2003 matchup , and the fantastic (and superior to the SS 92 match) Bret-Davey Boy encounter from 1995, both of which I currently have at ***** 1/2*. Right now, I'd give the slight edge to Bret-Davey Boy. December may be the worst month for matches ever


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Love the Smackdown vs Raw SVS 05 match. Absolutely awesome and seeing JBL work as a face (for those in SD's side) is awesome. The video package is heartbreaking, though. Because they show the footage of Raw Homecoming and Eddie is standing there along with the rest of his fellow SD members but come PPV time, he would be dead. 

As for best December match... I have to mention Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit. ****1/4 for me. Orton/Taker HIAC is up there too if it's not just TV matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The SD Vs Raw SS match got me back into wrestling. I quit shortly after WM that year, then got back into the shows in November. Big fan of the match, but I'd put a couple ahead of it, mainly the monstrous 16 man (8 tag teams) match from 88... or 89. One of the early ones anyway lol. Goes over 40 minutes too I think and never gets dull because we essentially get a bunch of different tag team matches :mark:.

Not a fan of SS 03 event. Main event is terrible. Opening elimination match is ok, but nothing special. Other one is good but I think it gets overrated, especially Shawn's performance in it. He's had better, and I've seen loads better too. Never liked the Kane/Shane matches. Undertaker/Vince is fun but nothing else.

Best December match? TV only, probably Brock/Benoit. PPV included, Undertaker/Orton HIAC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FuckChristmas ... You're still Cal to me 

I'm a HUGE Lesnar mark and I haven't seen Benoit/Lesnar. Probably going to pimp that one out today, as I need to see more matches to bolster my claim that if Lesnar stayed with the WWE from 2004-now that he'd have the best selection of matches around. Willing to bet he'd have like 30-40 **** matches by now , and a whole host of ***+ ones. Seemed like everything he ever touched was over ***+ to me honestly, the most physically gifted in-ring athlete of all time.

That's why I need to cop me a damn LESNAR AUTOGRAPH. THEY'RE ALL SO EXPENSIVE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Even Lesnar's matches under *** were usually awesomely fun squash matches. Better than Goldberg's and certainly better than Ryback's .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lesnar in two years had a better in-ring career than the Rock had in 6-8 years , and I know alot of people are going to bitch at me because of that, but have you seen a wrestler in your lifetime that's more captivating than Brock ?

Jesus, the guy excels at EVERYTHING he does, just a complete fucking freak of nature. Brock's squashes are better because Brock is stronger than both Ryback and Goldberg, plus he's about 6347524X faster and far more athletic. I don't care if Goldberg played in the NFL, he was like an 8th round pick while Lesnar was UFC heavyweight champion. Lesnar also has three matches I'd put over anything Rocky has ever done in his career ;

vs CENA ER 12
vs TAKER NM 02
vs GUERRERO NWO 04

:brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No offense but what's the matter with your constant shots taken at The Rock? Before my hatred for Punk is brought up, I only talk him down when he's _in_ the conversation, so there is a difference!

As much as I like Brock, I rank Rock/Austin from WM17 and maybe Rock/Benoit from FL00 higher than any Brock matches.

_*WWE Raw (22-08-2005)*_

Kurt Angle vs Shelton Benjamin - ***1/4
John Cena vs Chris Jericho (You're Fired!) - ***1/2

*The former is a very good wrestling contest that goes for nearly 10 minutes and features both athletes giving it their best. Not the best an Angle/Shelton match could be but for the time it got, it's well worth a watch.

*The SummerSlam rematch for the title is pretty good too. Jericho controls most of it but Cena does a good job when overcoming the odds and does a great job at selling the injuries he's suffered from being in the Walls of Jericho for nearly one minute which I found a bit too long but otherwise, a very good match that goes overlooked compared to the rest of their series just because it was on TV rather than PPV.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wish Benjamin/Angle got a 20 min PPV match at some point. Would have been awesome.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Their match on Raw was better than their match at Summerslam imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> All this Xmas joy is hurting your brains, nothing from HJ hit the **** mark. :harden


It was Shep that had it at ****, not you. My bad, man. Went back and saw you placed it at ***1/2. I still disagree. arks

Survivor Series 2003 is a blast of a PPV. With a terrible main event. Very first PPV I ever owned on DVD. Fun fact for nobody to give a damn. Boosh.

Adore the Team Austin vs Team Bischoff match. ****1/4.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Does anyone like Sin Cara? I hope not.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like to think I'm his biggest non-advocate. I want him to injure himself any chance he gets.

I don't care if that's "horrible" to ponder. He needs to go away.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, Sin Cara's pretty bad. Been a huge bust for the 'E.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Survivor Series 2009​*
1) *Survivor Series Elmination Match*
Mike Mizanin, Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre, & Jack Swagger vs John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Dave Finlay, Shelton Benjamin, & Evan Bourne ~ ***1/4


2) Batista vs Rey Mysterio ~ *3/4


3) *Survivor Series Elimination Match*
Randy Orton, CM Punk, William Regal, Cody Rhodes, & Ted Dibiase Jr vs Kofi Kingston, Christian, Mark Henry, MVP, & R-Truth ~ **1/2


4) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Triple Threat Match*
The Undertaker(c) Chris Jericho vs Big Show ~ ***1/4


5) *Survivor Series Elimination Match*
Mickie James, Melina Perez, Gail Kim, Eve Torres, & Kelly Kelly vs Beth Phoenix, Michelle McCool, Layla El, Alicia Fox, & Jillian Hall ~ 1/4*


6) *WWE Championship* - *Triple Threat Match*
John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H ~ ****​

~ Now I know why the main event gets praise. GREAT match. Loved all aspects of it. Triple H taking the pinfall left me feeling giddy too. GO JOHN-BOY.

~ World Championship 3 way was pretty good. Really picked up in the finishing stretch, which was needed. No complaints here and I was glad to see all 3 duke it out.

~ Team Orton vs Team Kofi didn't hold up this time around. Saw it years ago and thought it was pretty strong. This time around it was only above average at best. Thanks to some good moments by Christian (who was the highlight of the match) Kofi sucked hard. Even during this time when he was really awesome, or so I thought. Crowd ate it up. Felt like he had a future here. Btw, this crowd is pretty great the entire show. (Y) Oh, screw this match for getting rid of Mark Henry less than one minute in.

~ Team Miz vs Team Morrison had some really good dynamics in it. It ended up being a showcase for Miz, Sheamus, & Drew. That didn't necessarily effect things in negative fashion or have the match come off as a "squash". Tons of hot moments in the early going. Hit a bit of a snag when Swagger got in and did some bland wear-down phase in between the rapid eliminations. After that it picked up again towards the finish. Enjoyed this one quite a bit.

~ Batista vs Mysterio was pretty much ideal for the angle. No complaints whatsoever. Some might have enjoyed it a bit more for what it was. I can understand that. Not a bad match by any stretch of what the rating may suggest. Purely domination at the end instead of a hot streak finish. They would top it with the Street Fight before TLC and the excellent, iirc, #1 contenders match on Smackdown.

~ Divas. Yeah...bad, but had enough to not get a DUD. Congrats? Fitting filler. Didn't kill the crowd thankfully.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You don't think your hate for Kofi got in the way of his match?  I personally thought it was the 2nd best thing on the night. They were pushin him so heavy that it was incredibly surprising and impressive to see him go over Punk & Orton in the same match. Think I went *** 1/2 for it. WHC 3-way was pretty average to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. The overall match wasn't anything special. Punk's weardown of Kofi was weak. Didn't garner any sympathy at all. Kofi's big win was awesome. Like I stated, it really felt he was going places. That match only sheds light on the recent fact for me that Kofi Kingston is a garbage wrestler. Heck of an athlete. Not much in the world of wrestling, however.

I used to be a fan too. Don't know how I never saw it till now. (pardon his team with Bourne. That clicked.)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was waiting for somebody to point out the fact that I seem to trash Rocky at every single opportunity I get. The reason that it seems like I'm doing this, is because I take what I say in a random post and I draw upon it using conversations that I've had with various other individuals (usually Rocky marks) in other threads. To elaborate, basically what I'm saying is that if I mention a random Rock remark (I.E Brock being better than Rocky) , it's because I've argued it in a different thread but came here to talk about it, since 95 percent of the users on this forum honestly aren't worth my typed words. Don't worry ; Rock marks fucking LOVE to trash me and my love for PHIL all the time 

Kofi is a strange case honestly. To the casual viewer he may be a "great wrestler" because of his ability to jump and his ability to......... Well, jump. That's literally his entire offense right there, while his selling has always been shitty IMO. I think the only way to salvage Kofi is if he were given a main event program with Punk in late 2012 or something, preferably with the title on the line. Where Punk and Kofi are "road wives" they could put together a REALLY fun match imo. Probably the sloppiest match of all time though :lol

On second thought, I believe TLC is shaping up to be a PPV with somewhat of a potential. If the TLC match is nothing but Punk getting put through tables and beaten with chairs until interference leads to a Punk victory it should atleast be fairly entertaining. Cena-Dolph is probably going to be a *** 1/2 encounter, as well as Big Show-Sheamus , so the three main matches are pretty much all going to be worth watching (that is, if Ryback isn't terribly awful ; which he will be), think I'm gonna order this one with a few friends for the LOLZ.

Also C2D, you HAVE to be rooting for Punk at TLC for once, right ? Surely you'd rather see Rock-Punk than Rock-Ryback , am I correct ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't know if Punk's mastery could even help Kofi Kingston out. You hit the nail right one the head when dropping that it could be potentially sloppy. That's what Kingston is. Very sloppy. His wild, high flying chops without coordination need to leave my field of vision.

Irony time...

...Speaking of Kofi, am I the only one who was shocked that the tag team championship match from Over The Limit this year was actually _good_? Already announced my displeasure of Kingston & I absolutely have always loathed R-Truth, but the work they brought into the match vs Dolph & Swagger meshed nicely. I mean, I really enjoyed the contest. Has to be the biggest surprise of the year from a WWE match for me. ***1/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

EXACT same rating that I had the match at, and one of the better PPV openers we had all year which is crazy considering how much Truth and Kofi actually suck balls :lol

WTF is up with that spinning/dancing forearm that Truth does, which basically doesn't even connect with his opponent in the slightest ?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Just think, with WWE's fuckery booking and cena's allowed to cash in the SD WHC briefcase on the WWE title we might get Rock/Cena for the title at WM. And we are all so excited to see that match again..... unk2

I'm still holding out hope for punk/taker at WM...even though that's probably not going to happen

I personally think it's going to be Cena/Rock/Punk in a triple threat match for the WWE title at WM. Lesnar/Taker for the streak, and Ryback/Big Show for the WHC


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> WTF is up with that spinning/dancing forearm that Truth does, which basically doesn't even connect with his opponent in the slightest ?


That's a FOREARM? I thought he just spun with the intentions of a shittier version of a cross-body or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> EXACT same rating that I had the match at, and one of the better PPV openers we had all year which is crazy considering how much Truth and Kofi actually suck balls :lol
> 
> WTF is up with that spinning/dancing forearm that Truth does, which basically doesn't even connect with his opponent in the slightest ?


A true surprise. Works for me. Made a match I have ZERO interest in seeing worth something.

Who knows. Killings is beyond a pathetic attempt at a wrestler. He hardly connections with that damn move. That's probably why they changed it from that to the leaping inverted bulldog. Aka the move they randomly seem to give to black wrestlers. (Shelton, MVP, and now Truth)


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

A Punk/Kofi feud could be really interesting because of their personal history. I just fear the matches wouldn't be that great because I feel like once you've watched one Kofi match, you've seen every Kofi match. His matches are boring to me. Being a great athlete can only get you so far. 

Please don't get me started on how much I despise truth as a worker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good call. Lots of Kofi stuff is very repetitive. Even when it's a match that's meant to be something like a PPV bout or on TV when the importance is implied. He doesn't add anything new. b/c he doesn't have anything.

I don't know what's worse about Ron Killings: his attempts to wrestle or his attempts to speak clear English? 

Both are a lost cause.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Good call. Lots of Kofi stuff is very repetitive. Even when it's a match that's meant to be something like a PPV bout or on TV when the importance is implied. He doesn't add anything new. b/c he doesn't have anything.
> 
> I don't know what's worse about Ron Killings: his attempts to wrestle or his attempts to speak clear English?
> 
> Both are a lost cause.


I've never seen Kofi bring anything other than his usual moveset, he brings in the ranhei (S.O.S.) on the rarest of occasions but that's it. Kofi's problem is that there is no difference at all in his 5 minute matches and the 20 minute matches he has. He can't structure a match well at all

Killings is just a lost cause in general.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Absolutely.

Lets change the subject to someone who's actually worked a few matches worth talking about: I randomly select Ultimate Warrior. Shocked? Everyone is.

match vs Rick Rude @ Summerslam '89 = :mark:

He's a nut. At least he has about 4-5 great, memorable matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a big fan of his personality in a "so crazy it's entertaining" kind of way. Go watch his 60 minute "karma collects" video where he airs out Hogan's alleged dirty laundry, basically claiming in short that Hogan and his ex-wife were swinging dopeheads, and that Hogan used to keep other guys junkies just so that he could have control over them. Crazy, crazy stuff. Apparently he's the best guy to meet in person EVER though, like he's an absolute BLAST to meet, so I'm a fan just for that reason.

He has a top 50 WWF/WWE match ever against Savage at WM VII that some people even give the full ***** too. I have it at about **** 1/2 , and I believe his match with Hogan is a top 100-150 (gotta finish my own personal rankings tonight) match in history as well at **** 1/4. The dude didn't care that much , but I'd certainly put him over guys like Goldberg for sure.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Warrior is a guy with some really matches (though I honestly have never loved the WM Savage match and I'm a Savage nut), but if watch random stuff from him it's kind of disappointing. Definitely wouldn't put him ahead of Goldberg, who is essentially Warrior but with a bigger feel to him, a better seller and a far, far, far superior squash wrestler. IDK if I'd rank any Warrior match next to Goldberg v DDP.*

You know fuck the universe I may watch Warrior/Savage 91 tonight. I've always liked the SummerSam re-match so much more and it's probably a case of me missing something.

* We should talk about DDP. That guy is awesome and seemed to be one of the guys who still gave a shit toward the tail end of WCW. He had a really, really fucking good 1998.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YES, DDP vs Goldberg was one amazing match. He seemed to be one of the few guys that made the best of 1999 too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DDP got a great match out of the shitfest that was WCW Crow Sting , for that he should be awarded a fucking medal in his own right. Legit one of the only things that made "the best of Nitro vol 1." feel like a BEST OF comp, what an overrated DVD :lol

Never saw the match with Goldberg, but I also heard that Goldberg and Steiner had a pretty awesome match in WCW`s dying days, and that Scott actually wasn't that bad in the ring pre-WWE 2002 ? I'm a pretty big Steiner fan (another ridiculous person, although he had a ton of talent) so I'd imagine that his 2000 matches weren't that bad to watch. Damnit now I wanna watch Goldberg-Steiner


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Crow Sting is underrated. Had good/really good matches with DDP, Flair, Benoit, Hart and I like the Hogan match at SuperBrawl 8. :$

Goldberg/Steiner is good, but I don't love it. Scott Steiner's typically good, yeah, but 1990-1994 tag team era Scott Steiner is pretty goddamn awesome. 

--

I'm kinda watching some of the WWE I missed from 2011, and I just finished the SmackDown Elimination Chamber, and I liked it a ton. Basically a multi-man spotfest cage match done about as good as it can be done. There was almost always something interesting going on. Rey ruled the match with his bumping, and not only his bumping, but his 'I have no control over where I am falling' post-bump flops. McIntyre coming in and slaughtering everyone is the greatest moment in any Chamber match I can remember. Barrett ate some nasty glass spots. Even when it looked like it was going to boil down to a presumably boring as shit Kane v Edge period the 10 second timer went off and someone came in. I watched the 2002 Chamber for the first time a couple of months ago and didn't like it anywhere near as much as this. This has to be my favourite Chamber easily. Where to folks rank it among the rest?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ownage™;12337502 said:


> Does anyone like Sin Cara? I hope not.


I actually think he might be the worst guy on the roster that isn't someone like Khali who's physique handicaps how he can perform. His offence looks like shit, from the really weak strikes to the overly choreographed rope assisted armdrags that he hits so slow that they lose the impressive visual that 1997 Mysterio would have been able to create. His bumping and selling is really awkward in part to the mask which stops him from really being able to expressively sell, so he just flops around when taking offence and I find it impossible to actually root for him or consider it 'good'. I'm also not sure if guys are going easy on him or anything, but everytime recently I've seen him get worked over in a tag it looks like his opponents are being really gentle/tame in their offence. Maybe that's just the guys having off days/sloppy execution but it almost looks like a lot of them aren't committing themselves offence wise and when you take in how awkward his bumping is you have a guy who's managed to make a Mysterio year feel dull, to quote *Yeah1993*.

As for the 2011 EC. I think it would be a top 3 Chamber for me. The Raw 2009 NWO Chamber has always been a personal favourite of mine, but I'd happily call that more of a candidate for greatest Chamber performance by Mysterio, as opposed to the match as a whole being better than the New Years Revolution 05 Chamber or the Smackdown 2011 Chamber. Mcintyre was incredible in that match and I'm pretty sure anyone who's ever commented on the match cites him as one of the best things about the match.

Page/Goldberg is spectacular btw and a real credit to Page as a very good guy at structuring his matches to be able to work around the Goldberg formula and create something unique. Felt like every DDP transition/counter was timed/executed well enough to make him look smart and calculating and not making Goldberg look stupid and of course the famous Jackhammer counter and the pop is amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> DDP got a great match out of the shitfest that was WCW Crow Sting , for that he should be awarded a fucking medal in his own right. Legit one of the only things that made "the best of Nitro vol 1." feel like a BEST OF comp, what an overrated DVD :lol
> 
> Never saw the match with Goldberg, but I also heard that Goldberg and Steiner had a pretty awesome match in WCW`s dying days, and that Scott actually wasn't that bad in the ring pre-WWE 2002 ? I'm a pretty big Steiner fan (another ridiculous person, although he had a ton of talent) so I'd imagine that his 2000 matches weren't that bad to watch. Damnit now I wanna watch Goldberg-Steiner


Yep, Nitro match vs Sting in '99 was stellar. He also owned it up in some tag team affairs vs Benoit/Saturn that same year.

Watch the match vs Goldberg asap. 

As for the Goldberg/Steiner Fall Brawl '00 match. Yep, I love it. The basis behind it was so cheesy and bad, then out of nowhere comes that awesome war. I'm sure it's on Dailymotion. Maybe even youtube. Nothing else from 2000 with Steiner was worth mentioning off the top of my head. Better off watching Mike Awesome matches.



Yeah1993 said:


> I'm kinda watching some of the WWE I missed from 2011, and I just finished the SmackDown Elimination Chamber, and I liked it a ton. Basically a multi-man spotfest cage match done about as good as it can be done. There was almost always something interesting going on. Rey ruled the match with his bumping, and not only his bumping, but his 'I have no control over where I am falling' post-bump flops. McIntyre coming in and slaughtering everyone is the greatest moment in any Chamber match I can remember. Barrett ate some nasty glass spots. Even when it looked like it was going to boil down to a presumably boring as shit Kane v Edge period the 10 second timer went off and someone came in. I watched the 2002 Chamber for the first time a couple of months ago and didn't like it anywhere near as much as this. This has to be my favourite Chamber easily. Where to folks rank it among the rest?


Probably my favorite Chamber behind the New Year's Revolution 2005. I bought that show a month ago and legit marked super hard during that entire bout. Unbelievable crowd mixed with a seriously fantastic bout - awesome, awesome, awesome.

Drew's demolition was my personal favorite part. :mark:


----------



## Rickeey (Jan 5, 2011)

Watched a handful of matches this morning.

Christian vs. Jack Swagger (ECW 02/25/09) - Yeah, this was my first time watching it. I know I'm late to the party, but this really was utterly fantastic. I regret not watching it a hell of a lot sooner. I guess the idea of Swagger always put me off, but he's GOOD here, definitely his best performance like ever. Christian is just perfection here, normally I prefer a heel Christian but fuck me, he's just as good if not better as a babyface. Ain't nobody selling the arm like Christian these days!

CM Punk vs. The Miz vs. Alberto Del Rio (TLC 2011) - Jesus, I didn't like this. I can't quite put my finger on it, there's plenty of stuff there that normally, I'd love but for whatever reason, this just didn't click with me. Punk's the babyface with the HEART OF A LION, there's never any moments where you feel like Punk could genuinely lose. Ricardo took the bump of the match. Del Rio becomes a non-factor towards the end. Miz can fuck right off. Nah, not for me. 

I "watched" a Punk/Christian match from last year but fell asleep.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was pretty high on that Punk vs Christian match last year. Partial. I'll admit that. It _was_ good though.

**** for the TLC match. Dug the different elements that put Punker in peril. Don't know if I would have completely bought it as a lock that he'd lose if I saw it live. Can't say that garnered any displeasure from me. It was different and interesting, nonetheless.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DDP TALK :mark:

HH against Goldberg is awesome, but don't forget their Nitro match too! Almost as good imo, but had a screwy finish. Love his SuperBrawl 8 match (I think) with Benoit. Triple threat with Benoit and Raven is really good too. 2 great matches with Sting in 98 and 99 on Nitro. Shame his heel title run in 99 was cut EXTREMELY short with the title randomly going back to a returning Sting. And over a decade later shit like that was STILL happening with Sting (winning the title randomly on Impact a couple of years ago when he returned at one point lol).

Kofi, Truth and Cara are probably the worst guys in WWE right now. Ahead of Ryback. And even Khali. Khali has an excuse for being shit. He's over 7 foot tall and non athletic with fucked up knees. Yet his best match is > than any of their matches :lmao.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, I watched last night's Raw in full, the first time I've done that in literally months. 

It wasn't bad. The tag matches and the four way were fun. First time I've seen Cesaro in the 'E. Looking forward to seeing him on PPV against someone good. Kofi and Truth still suck but I can tolerate them in a match like that. Heard lots of praise for the Sheamus v Big Show matches which does not surprise me in the slightest. Even their exchanges in last night's cookie-cutter TV tag had me somewhat invested so yeah, I need to see those. Ziggler better retain the briefcase against Cena. That could be a great match.

The Shield? 

Sin Cara is garbage, Del Rio is okay.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Was there a good Rey Mysterio match in 2012?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Also C2D, you HAVE to be rooting for Punk at TLC for once, right ? Surely you'd rather see Rock-Punk than Rock-Ryback , am I correct ?


HELL NAW! Even in a fight to the death between Punk and Saddam, I would not root for him. Truth be told, I am totally INDIFFERENT to who wins. I just want The Rock to become champion at the Rumble, that's it. Since Punk has surpassed Cena's reign, he may as well keep it until the Rumble to make the pay off that much sweeter, though. But really, I don't care. Last Raw I watched is 1000 (and I also watched parts of the Montreal episode just to see Punk humiliated by The Hitman and Cena as well as the Lawler accident) and last PPV I watched in full was 7 months ago. (you can count MITB too since I still watched all the relevant matches) I'm totally out of the loop with what's been going on recently unless it involves Orton and even then, I've mainly read spoilers.

Seriously, I'm more interested in the Raw ratings than the shows themselves. That shows you how little I care. Don't even read the results anymore.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JoeRulz said:


> Was there a good Rey Mysterio match in 2012?


Well there was... uhhh... I think he... no.

Some people liked a Miz match or something. I didn't. Mysterio hasn't been good since he returned. Being stuck with Sin Cara doesn't help, but he needs to retire now. His knees are dead and its killed his in ring ability it seems.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rey's match vs Danielson last week on RAW was good, imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh, forgot that even happened already lol. Was solid. Best Rey match in probably a year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll be happy knowing that was Rey's final wrestling match. End it on the best note possible.

If his final match is vs Sin Cara at WrestleMania I'll punch something.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Touche. Because, Rey Mysterio is the most outstanding wrestler in WWE 2002-2012.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hard to argue.

Mysterio's Biggest Little Man set proves it. I'll continue to pimp that hard. I need his Life of a Masked Man set. Like NOW.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Biggest Little Man OWNS.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Shame we never got Biggest Little Man v The Game. That could've been great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never cared to see that.

Saturday Night's Main Event before WrestleMania 22 is the only interaction I think they had pardon Royal Rumble 2006.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That topic seems to come up whenever "Rey being the best worker of the last decade" gets mentioned. A Rey/HHH program sometime between 04-06 when H was a complete asshole would've been awesome.

edit HEY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't be so shocked.

I wanted Mysterio to lock it up vs Danielson instead. I got what I wanted. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I just think if Jeff Hardy was such a good opponent for Hunter surely Rey would've matched up well with him too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I do highly enjoy the Jeff/Hunter series.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed. Hunter and Punk (my two all time favorites) managed to get the best work possible out of Jeff. Jeff had a few pretty good matches with Umaga as well (at GAB 2007 he plays the babyface in peril pretty well) but it doesn't touch his work with Punk and Trips.

*Top 5 Jeff Singles Matches*

1. vs Triple H (No Mercy 2008) : ***** 1/4*
2. vs CM Punk (SD 09) : ***** 1/4*
3. vs CM Punk (SS 09) : ******
4. vs Undertaker (Raw 02) : **** 3/4*
5. vs Triple H (ARM 07) : **** 1/2*

Other notables include vs UMAGA (GAB 07) , vs Trips (CS 07) , vs Punk (NOC) , vs Edge (ER 09) , vs Morrison (SD 09) .... And that's about it honestly. I hate Jeff as a character and as a worker but he had a few REALLY good matches with some all time greats.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

They had a great dynamic going on and very good chemistry. No Mercy '08 is super and the rematch at Cyber Sunday isn't far behind it.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Rey's match vs Danielson last week on RAW was good, imo.


Yup.

Other than that, Mysterio's best matches this year have to be when he got a very good match out of The Miz at Summerslam and when he faced Punk a few months back on Raw.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Triple threat against HHH and Edge when he wins the title is pretty great too imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, totally forgot about Mysterio being involved in the IC Title picture this year. I think the guy needs to retire in all honesty. I'm sure he can still pull out some good matches but he's teamed up with Shit Cara, his knees are so fucked up, and he's clearly put on some weight. Nothing really left they could do with him other than put over young guys. (Primetime Players at the moment)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

When I think of the top 5 triple threats in company history HHH is probably in 4 of them. Don't remember the one with Edge and Hardy very well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Triple H & HBK are the kings of triple threats. A bunch of em I'd put at ****+ involving either of the two.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ownage™ said:


> When I think of the top 5 triple threats in company history HHH is probably in 4 of them. Don't remember the one with Edge and Hardy very well.


LEGIT triple threats involving HHH off the top of my head.

Angle/Rock/HHH
HHH/Edge/Hardy
HHH/Benoit/HBK x2
HHH/Edge/Cena

Probably missing a few TV matches as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH/HBK/Cena too. HHH/Orton/Cena as well.

He's great with them triple threats!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh right, DX vs Cena. Forgot about that one. HBK starts that match off with a bang :lmao

Don't remember much from HHH/Orton/Cena. That was @ Mania, ya?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep. They also had one at Night of Champions 09 but I don't remember it. The Mania match is awesome, though. Absolutely love it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

All I remember is the double hangman's DDT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked the whole match from the use of the STFU by Cena (with the other man out making the save) to Orton doing the Crossbody one of his last times ever (on Cena while HHH held him on his shoulders) and the finish. It did feel underwhelming in a way because I think it deserved more attention.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DX/Cena triple threat is a favorite of mine.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Mania match is pretty damn awesome . **** 1/2* here for sure, DAT CROSSFACE is awesome but something was missing for me.

#PHG's Top 5 Triple Threats

1. HHH vs HBK vs Benoit (WM XX) : *******
2. HHH vs HBK vs Benoit (BL 04) : ***** 1/2*
3. Lesnar vs Show vs Angle (VEN 03) : ***** 1/2*
4. Taker vs Rock vs Angle (VEN 02) : ***** 1/2*
5. HHH vs Cena vs Edge (BL 06) : ******

Love me some TRIPS TRIPLE THREATS


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1. Benoit/HHH/HBK - WRESTLEMANIA XX (*****)
2. Rock/Taker/Angle - VENGEANCE 02 (****3/4)
3. Benoit/HHH/HBK - BACKLASH 04 (****1/2)
4. Lesnar/Angle/Show - VENGEANCE 03 (****1/4)
5. Cena/HBK/Angle - TABOO TUESDAY 05 (****)

Obviously there's a long list that needs a rewatch for proper ratings but that's just off the top of my head.

One extremely underrated triple threat is Angle vs Taker vs Benoit at Smackdown 02. Would have been 5* worthy if it was on PPV and given about 20 minutes.

*EDIT:* What about Fatal Four Ways? Best one I can think of is BACKLASH 07. Also love the UNFORGIVEN 2000 one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CBA using my head and thinking of good triple threats/4 ways, but I will say the SummerSlam 2000 triple threat is an absolute pile of shite. They had 2 much, MUCH better matches on TV during that time.

Unforgiven 4 way is ok, but certainly not great. Nowhere near the likes of Backlash 07.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Wrestlemania 2000 counts , then Wrestlemania 2000 

If not , then Backlash 2007. I second Cal on the idea that the Summerslam 2000 main event sucks balls and is probably one of the most overrated matches ever. Second worst TRIPS PPV match in 2000 , barely in front of the KOTR Tag. One of Trips's worst PPV matches in general actually.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> If Wrestlemania 2000 counts , than Wrestlemania 2000


Can't say I watched that match more than once, it's actually worth watching?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 2000 match is a love/hate match. People either really like it (like me, **** for it), or think its turd (it does go a little long, but I still think its all good).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still haven't seen WM2000


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

The Four-Way featuring Austin, Bret, Taker and Vader from In Your House: Final Four is my favourite. Fantastic match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

murder said:


> The Four-Way featuring Austin, Bret, Taker and Vader from In Your House: Final Four is my favourite. Fantastic match.


Yeah this one is definitely the best. Awesome, awesome match. ****3/4.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. BL 07 is just behind it at ****1/2.


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

Went to GameStop to pick up Mass Effect Collection and couldn't help but stop by FYE.

Picked these up with their WWE Buy 1 Get 1 Free deal:










Just randomly picked these. No particular reason. I didn't even want these, but I just picked them up for the sweet tin case. SummerSlam 2007's tin case is an FYE exclusive so hopefully that means something...

I got a little annoyed because I found out once I got home that the back of Survivor Series' tin case had a few dents. Nothing major though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SS 07 features the return of THE GAME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS07 was a horrible event .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

NOT FOR ME!

(but yeah it was )


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> SS 07 features the return of THE GAME.


Yeah, I remember. I saw SS '07 on PPV way back when.

WE CAN REBUILD HIM! WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY!

Ugh... I think it was during this time where I was getting tired of WWE/Wrestling in general.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ownage™ said:


> DX/Cena triple threat is a favorite of mine.


Same. I ADORE that match. Watched it not too long ago and it had me marking out. That near fall when Shawn superkicks Hunter onto Cena and the ref starts counting is boss. Fans lost their shit at that lol. Fantastic match and highly underrated imo. It doesn't get enough love, most likely because of that fucking retarded Hornswoggle build it had. I mean, you have John Cena, Triple H and Shawn Michaels, 3 of the biggest WWE superstars ever, in a legitimate first time ever and big time main event match and we get a month of fucking Hornswoggle jokes. Ridiculous. Anyways, still love this thing and had it at *****1/2 *on my last watch iirc.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that nearfall was great. H took like 3 huge Superkicks in that match :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Every one of them was so epic too lol. How can you kick a guy 3 times and have it be so dramatic every time, ha. BEST FWIENDS DNT KICK BEST FWIENDS IN DA FACES.

Waiting on my Naitch and Best of PPV 2011 sets to arrive possibly tomorrow or the next day. Was going to wait until after Xmas but I don't want to take the risk of SV running out of copies or something lol. Think I'll do a 2011 PPV review and then follow it up with the 2012 PPV review I'm planning to do as well.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He knocked the fuck out of him on that first one. H was lying outside for the first 10 minutes of the match :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The infamous triple threat knockout spot where one guy is left laying for 10 minutes lol. But hey, as far as those spots go, that particular one is :mark:. Always mark for Shawn showing that he still has some dickhead left in him lol.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Really enjoyed the Cesaro/Kofi/Truth/Barrett four way from last night.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> Touche. Because, Rey Mysterio is the most outstanding wrestler in WWE 2002-2012.


Fuck WWE he was the best wrestler on planet Earth from 02-12.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Huganomics said:


> Really enjoyed the Cesaro/Kofi/Truth/Barrett four way from last night.


Agreed really good TV match, Cesaro really showed why we need a Cesaro/Mysterio match that goes 15 minutes urgently. Or Cesaro/Bryan either would be fantastic. Cesaro's US title run has been really good so far, good matches. He just needs some character development and he's set.

Plus the finish to last night's match was excellent.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Skipped that 4 way. When a match has 4 participants and 3 of them are all terrible, I have no interest in watching .


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

FuckChristmas said:


> Skipped that 4 way. When a match has 4 participants and 3 of them are all terrible, I have no interest in watching .


I hate kofi and truth with a passion, barrett does very little for me but Cesaro carries the match. ***1/2 stars.

Cesaro's probably one of the best workers in the company currently and works the big man style the best out of all current guys on the WWE Roster. This is excluding Lesnar and Taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm starting to warm to Cesaro. Wasn't a fan of him back in ROH, and while his gimmick currently is terrible, he's having some good matches and I'm digging most of his move set. Anyone else doing his finisher would probably get shit on, but I think it works for him.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I could dig a Cesaro/Bryan or Cesaro/Mysterio match that got time and a bit of hype. His current character is boring as shit though. I've seen the heel foreign guy act a million times.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Fuck WWE he was the best wrestler on planet Earth from 02-12.


:ban


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Really digging Cesaro. I would love a Bryan/Cesaro program. Getting tired of seeing Bryan as Kane's sidekick. He doesn't even get his own music when they enter as a team.  Usually they do a mash-up of two stars' individual themes when they team up. Now he's getting the jobber treatment. FUCK.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Cesaro's uppercut alone raises every match he's in by * tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Huganomics said:


> Cesaro's uppercut alone raises every match he's in by * tbh.


The one to Sheamus bumped that match up *3/4 for me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> The infamous triple threat knockout spot where one guy is left laying for 10 minutes lol. But hey, as far as those spots go, that particular one is :mark:. Always mark for Shawn showing that he still has some dickhead left in him lol.


Exactly. WWE's triple threat formula has become quite tiresome and annoying to me but I totally dug how they separated that match into three distinct sections (HBK/Cena, HHH/Cena, and then HBK/HHH/Cena). Other matches have tried to do similar things and I didn't like it but the HHH/HBK intangible made this work brilliantly.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I hate triple threats, the formula never changes and its usually a given who is going to win. To me its almost like they have 3 main event talents but don't know what to do with the third wheel so they stick him in the match just because. 


The *DX/Cena* match was okay I'd give it *****, it was too obvious Cena was gonna win and I never got the feeling he wasn't gonna win. 


The *Cena/Angle/HBK* from Taboo Tuesday is dope too probably give it **** 1/2*


The Wrestlemania 2000 *Benoit/Angle/Jericho* match is probably my favorite triple threat match ******* great story and every guy busted his ass. I also liked the *Carlito/Benjamin/Nitro* triple threat...fun and great offense ******


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm an advocate of most triple threat matches the WWE pumps out. I made that claim last night when I watched Night of Champions 2009 while Cena vs Orton vs Triple H was on.

Don't like the 4 way from WrestleMania 16/2000. Except for the Foley moments.

4 way last night on RAW was only good b/c of Cesaro. **1/4 all thanks to my excitement from him. Also personal angst on every nearfall as I cringed at the thought of Kingston or Truth winning. For better or worse that made me super into the match. IMMENSE love and hate.

I'd support a Danielson/Cesaro program within the E. Only don't let them use headlocks. Point for you if you get that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 2000 triple threat - ***

Currently watching HBK/HHH/Cena again cos I was in the mood after everyone was talking about it . I knew I had it on DVD, but I wasn't sure which one. Looked up match listings of potential comps it might be on... then remembered I actually have the SS show :lmao.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

One of my favorite fatal 4 ways (I actually like these way more than triple threats) was:

*Armageddon 2004: JBL (c) vs Booker T vs Eddie Guerrero vs The Undertaker for the WWE Championship* I gave it ****

Man this thing was great. JBL defending the strap against everybody he feuded with that year in one match. All the guys were out to get a piece of JBL, to get some revenge for all his previous shenanigans. Booker & Eddie they had to find a way to contend with The Undertaker. 


It started off slow and then developed as the match went on. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Booker & Eddie double teaming Undertaker and then JBL, trying to isolate and weaken the two bigger, stronger guys. Undertaker dominating everyone in most exchanges, JBL taking long breaks but coming in strong to take advantage of a weakened opponent. Everybody had a great false finish of their own, they all looked legit in this thing. 


The table spot (where the table didn't break) was atrocious but the other spots made up for it. Eddie playing possum, leading to the Undertaker/Eddie exchange which was the highlight of the match. Eddie's double frog splash pinfall attempt was awesome as was the frog splash from the ladder high spot. 

A very fun match for me, even though I wasn't thrilled with how it ended, we really didn't need the run-in ruining such a great match. It was a very well booked and very well executed by 3 of the best in the game (JBL being the exception). Its gotta be hard to book a match like this and not make someone look weak but every guy had a strong showing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a fan of that 4 way. Undertaker/Eddie stuff was awesome, such a shame it didn't last longer nor did we ever get a singles match from them . Would go around ***1/4-1/2 for it.

Speaking of triple threats again, Undertaker/Batista/Edge is a wonderful match that I feel is underrated. A great match that takes us from the awesome Undertaker/Batista series in 07 and brings us into the awesome Undertaker/Edge series in 08. We do get some of the basic formula with one guy getting taken out so the other two fight, but most of it is different in the sense that Edge is constantly running away while Batista and Undertaker fight each other to see who gets to be alone with Edge. Edge's antics are great too, and he really plays up on the "Ultimate Opportunist" gimmick here, something that honestly he rarely did despite constantly being called it for the last 5 or 6 years of his career lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Apparently Punk's knee is fucked. That's sure to offset the big plan's heading into the Rumble and Wrestlemania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> WM 2000 triple threat - ***
> 
> Currently watching HBK/HHH/Cena again cos I was in the mood after everyone was talking about it . I knew I had it on DVD, but I wasn't sure which one. Looked up match listings of potential comps it might be on... then remembered I actually have the SS show :lmao.


WrestleMania 16 - **1/2

Survivor Series '09 - ****

and since it was dropped...

Armageddon '04 Fatal Four Way - ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SO after watching the SS 09 triple threat... the WWE title triple threat lol... I'm not as high on it as I was. ***1/2 for it. Still really good. Superkick at the start still makes me grin like a... what grins really big? A simple person? That'll do. Wait... it makes me grin like Stupid Tom!!! (Stupid Tom is... or maybe was... haven't seen or spoken to him in about 3 months since he got a new girlfriend... anyway he's a friend or something and he's really fucking stupid, hence the name Stupid Tom because he's also called Tom, and he grins ALL THE TIME) The other 2 superkicks to HHH are awesome too. Watching HHH get kicked in the face by his best friend repeatedly is pretty awesome. CONCUSS THE GAME! HHH retaliating with a Spinebuster through the table was cool. Though something even cooler would have been for HHH to grab HBK and start yelling at him for kicking him in the head, only for HBK to superkick him again just to shut him up :lmao. I should book matches, I'd be awesome at it. I hear Cena was in this match too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels being an awesome dick friend.
John-Boy winning.
Triple H constantly abused via kicks to the face.

Qualifies as GREAT in my book.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched Cena/Miz from Over the Limit. Jesus what a horrible match. Managed to out-shit their all time bad Mania main event which I thought was impossible. There probably aren't ten worse WWE Championship matches. Just...wow, it was really, really awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The fuck did you think watching that in the first place lol?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

FuckChristmas said:


> SO after watching the SS 09 triple threat... the WWE title triple threat lol... I'm not as high on it as I was. ***1/2 for it. Still really good. Superkick at the start still makes me grin like a... what grins really big? A simple person? That'll do. Wait... it makes me grin like Stupid Tom!!! (Stupid Tom is... or maybe was... haven't seen or spoken to him in about 3 months since he got a new girlfriend... anyway he's a friend or something and he's really fucking stupid, hence the name Stupid Tom because he's also called Tom, and he grins ALL THE TIME) The other 2 superkicks to HHH are awesome too. Watching HHH get kicked in the face by his best friend repeatedly is pretty awesome. CONCUSS THE GAME! HHH retaliating with a Spinebuster through the table was cool. Though something even cooler would have been for HHH to grab HBK and start yelling at him for kicking him in the head, only for HBK to superkick him again just to shut him up :lmao. I should book matches, I'd be awesome at it. *I hear Cena was in this match too.*


Lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched Cena/Miz from Over the Limit. Jesus what a horrible match. Managed to out-shit their all time bad Mania main event which I thought was impossible. There probably aren't ten worse WWE Championship matches. Just...wow, it was really, really awful.


Did the irony of Orton/Christian being on the same show leave you vexed?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Miz just isn't very good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ownage™ said:


> The Miz just isn't very good.


 SAY IT ISN'T SO!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trust me, coming from an individual who has watched every single PPV WWE Championship match there has ever been , it could be FAR worse than Miz-Cena at OTL . I find their Wrestlemania encounter to be much, much worse, and even that isn't CLOSE to the absolute FUCKFEST that is the 2010 Orton-Barrett series.... What a pile of shit those matches were. 1/2* for both of them in my book, absolutely horrible.

Speaking of Cena "I Quit" matches ; what the hell does everybody see in Cena-Orton from Breaking Point ? The match is pretty good I suppose, but I'm not going to throw **** at it like everybody else does. It's slightly above the Miz match for me TBH. For those who hate Punk , just imagine what the WWE would have been like now had it not been for the "Pipe Bomb" and subsequent Summer of Punk II ?

It probably would have been Rock-Cena for the title, while 2011 consisted of Cena feuding with the likes of R-Truth for the rest of the summer. Dark days my friends, dark days for sure. Luckily instead we have one of the greatest WWE Championship reigns and one of the best Primes of all time IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Orton Breaking Point is on another level of great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

the Miz is KIIIIIIND of growing on me, but I still don't like him that much and he has a lot of flaws. Still, I think he can be good foil for a better wrestler. The Miz and Cena actually had a really, really fun match the night after Extreme Rules that's well worth watching.



FuckChristmas said:


> The fuck did you think watching that in the first place lol?


No idea. I'm kinda catching up with stuff I missed last year and I figured I should watch the major matches even if they aren't highly talked about. I've got Cena/R-Truth ready to watch. I'm telling you.....I have a masochistic side I can't fight. COUGHAndanotheroneIdon'twanttofightCOUGH



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Did the irony of Orton/Christian being on the same show leave you vexed?


Orton/Christian RULED. I loved that they countered each others moves that always usually hit. Orton countered the over-the-top-rope-jump-uppercut thingy and Christian got out of the 2nd rope DDT.....THINGY! The final moments got that Heavyweight Championship Drama down excellently. Christian hasn't been the same since they turned him.

Anyone got a link to the Orton/Christian from that Presidential Whatever PPV? Can't find it anywhere.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Miz sucks in the ring , but my biggest fault with him is that people confuse him for being good on the mic. No, being loud and trying to sound serious DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD ON THE MIC. Honestly though, even though Miz is pretty bad, I'd still have more faith in him putting on a **** match than Sin Cara and Ryback.

In the long run, I'm expecting Ryback to be better in the ring than Miz , but I just don't know anymore. Worst worker in the company ? Smart money's on the Paul Levesque Guy, Sin Cara :hhh


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Orton I Quit owns but I do understand why it varies opinions. Heavily character based matches will never be for everyone.

Orton and Barrett had some stinkers.

What's Christian doing these days? I'm assuming he's not around at the moment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian had shoulder surgery. Should be back soon along with Henry.

From what I gather, the BP match varies based on what people think to the finish.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cena/Orton Breaking Point was laughably bad. By the end of that trainwreck, I almost reached my breaking point (see what I did there?).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Orton/Christian RULED. I loved that they countered each others moves that always usually hit. Orton countered the over-the-top-rope-jump-uppercut thingy and Christian got out of the 2nd rope DDT.....THINGY! The final moments got that Heavyweight Championship Drama down excellently. Christian hasn't been the same since they turned him.
> 
> Anyone got a link to the Orton/Christian from that Presidential Whatever PPV? Can't find it anywhere.


Fantastic contest. Blitzkrieg of action for the 16 minutes they're in there. Personal note that helped with my love for it was no heel Michael Cole bs commentary either. It was Josh & Booker straight up calling the match. I might be the only person to acknowledge that for what it is. Damn was it a breath of fresh air around that time, though.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> The Miz sucks in the ring , but my biggest fault with him is that people confuse him for being good on the mic. No, being loud and trying to sound serious DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD ON THE MIC. Honestly though, even though Miz is pretty bad, I'd still have more faith in him putting on a **** match than Sin Cara and Ryback.
> 
> In the long run, I'm expecting Ryback to be better in the ring than Miz , but I just don't know anymore. Worst worker in the company ? Smart money's on the Paul Levesque Guy, Sin Cara :hhh


I like Miz. He's not "great". He works for me. Second Yeah1993's mention of the 5/2/11 Cena vs Miz match. They seem to always pump out better matches on TV than on PPVs.

Kofi/Killings/Sin Cara are my votes. All 3 equally terrible.

If Ezekial Jackson was still around he'd get a mention too. Although he at least got to work with Christian to put one positive aspect on his dossier.



Ownage™ said:


> Cena/Orton I Quit owns but I do understand why it varies opinions. Heavily character based matches will never be for everyone.
> 
> Orton and Barrett had some stinkers.
> 
> What's Christian doing these days? I'm assuming he's not around at the moment.


I'm a mark for character based matches. So naturally it was a lock for me to love it.

Christian upped and disappeared following a loss to Damien Sandow on RAW. MIA ever since. (thanks to KC I am finally confirmed he is injured. Fine excuse.)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> Christian had shoulder surgery. Should be back soon along with Henry.
> 
> From what I gather, the BP match varies based on what people think to the finish.


Has Christian done anything of note this year? 

I don't love the finish but it's not bad enough to ruin the match. Orton's most sadistic heel performance and a typically good display of Cena taking a beating like a champ.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian was injured at the start of the year. Came back but was too early so he went again. Then he returned during the UK tour (and the show I went to, so go me, got to see his first match back ), had the run with Cody (one solid match, one not so special match). Then... uhhh... I dunno.

That WAS this year, right? I legit don't remember :lmao.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm not so high on SS Triple Threat either. Another match I find to be a tad bit overrated is HHH vs Cena NOC 2008. That match is nowhere in the **** range for me.

I'm going to look at Cena/Orton BP for the first time. Will have my thoughts on it when I'm done.

Oh and call me crazy but does anyone else have Lesnar vs Rock at ****. Goddamn, what a great match and passing the torch moment.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Miz strikes me as the type of guy who can have a good 10 minute match with the right guy but once you ask him to go 15+ it gets messy. His PPV match with Bryan is a gem though. 

Haven't seen Ryback wrestle yet but the general consensus seems to be he's horrible. If he's going to be in and around the main event scene for while hopefully he can transform like Batista did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ownage™ said:


> Has Christian done anything of note this year?


vs Cody Rhodes (Over The Limit)
vs Drew McIntyre (Superstars 5/31)
vs Dolph Ziggler (Smackdown 5/8)
vs Cody Rhodes (No Way Out)
vs Alberto Del Rio (Smackdown 6/22)
vs Cody Rhodes (Smackdown 7/3)
vs 7 others (Money in the Bank)
vs Mike Mizanin (Smackdown 7/27)
w/Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler & Mike Mizanin (RAW 7/30)
w/Chris Jericho & Kane vs Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, & Mike Mizanin (Smackdown 8/3)
vs Antonio Cesaro (Smackdown 8/10)



sharkboy22 said:


> Oh and call me crazy but does anyone else have Lesnar vs Rock at ****. Goddamn, what a great match and passing the torch moment.


I do too. (Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> vs Cody Rhodes (Over The Limit)
> vs Drew McIntyre (Superstars 5/31)
> vs Dolph Ziggler (Smackdown 5/8)
> vs Cody Rhodes (No Way Out)
> ...


The Ziggler match jumps out at me. What's that like?



sharkboy22 said:


> Another match I find to be a tad bit overrated is HHH vs Cena NOC 2008.


Nah. It's awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have Lesnar-Rock at **** 1/4

Two athletic freaks going back and forth , following one of the greatest matches of all time IMO (trust me, a TON of people will not agree with that previous statement  ) . Lesnar's first classic and Rock's second last classic (his last was WM XIX vs Austin). Rock put over Lesnar FIERCELY, and the only person who really made him look better is Taker. UNF 02 and NM 02 RULEZ :brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ownage™ said:


> The Ziggler match jumps out at me. What's that like?







Quality 6 minute match. Filled with quite a bit of counters to keep the action fresh. Barring a brief weardown phase by Ziggler, the pace was kept up pretty high in it. Which I was in favor of. ***.

btw I botched the date in my previous post. It's from the 6/8 Smackdown.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Quality 6 minute match. Filled with quite a bit of counters to keep the action fresh. Barring a brief weardown phase by Ziggler, the pace was kept up pretty high in it. Which I was in favor of. ***.
> 
> *btw I botched the date in my previous post.* It's from the 6/8 Smackdown.


I DEMAND YOU CHANGE YOUR NAME TO SIN CARA.

Man, my memory of non PPV matches this year is terrible. I remember more from 93 than I do from this year. I don't remember any of those Christian matches outside of the McIntyre and Rhodes ones.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So finally saw Cena/Orton BP and well, I freaking loved it!

You know, on one hand I hate how PG means no blood (unless it's Cena/Lesnar of course) but on the other hand the policy against blading really forces wrestlers to gout there and be creative and not rely on high spots and the image of blood cascading down a wrestler's face to put over the match.

Orton's methodical offense just made this match seem so, I don't know, real. Like it just felt raw and nasty. The stops to Cena's head on the steps really made me cringe. The timing was just perfect. The shots from the kendo stick was nasty as well. And here is good ring psychology 101. I'm pretty sure we all thought Orton was going to hit Cena really, really slow with the stick. Well I did so it just made me jump when I saw him in a fir of range just beating the shit out of Cena with the stick. And Cena's selling. My God did it sound like he was in pain. Now that's how you sell!

The finish was just great. Seeing Cena hand-cuff Orton to himself and beat the crap out of him was just perfect timing. It was a well timed and well executed babyface comeback. And the power struggle for the key was the icing on the cake for me. Just some blind blowing psychology in this match.

****1/2

Yeah, you read right. This match just had me hooked from start to finish and is one of the few matches that I legit bought into and sank my teeth into the entire time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've hit a new low being compared with Sin Cara atm. 

I've always been pretty good at remembering random matches from any years. This year helps since it's recent. Christian being awesome and vs grand opponents only adds to the easiness.

Oh, and I don't loathe this year like some others do. No denying the string of crap that was WWE over the last few months, but match wise it hasn't been half bad the entire way through.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This year has been INCREDIBLY top heavy.

When it comes to top match quality, I'd choose this year's top 10 matches over any other since about 2005 TBH. It's almost that time of year for YEAR-END LISTS ... OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY :brock


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

While we're on the topic of year end lists, what's your favourote feud of 2012?

For me, it's definitely John Cena vs Brock Lensnar. Just 3 weeks of badass RAW after RAW with these two. Man that feud was INTENSE. It's been a long while since WWE churned out a feud with such intensity. It felt as if those two guys really hated each other. I still need to give the match a second viewing (haven't seen it since that night) but damn it's a stronger contender for me. I can't think of any other feud that rivals. Oh and that "I'm not a Superstar, I'm an ass kicker" promo will go down as one of the bests. 6 minutes and it puts over Lesnar, Cena and the match. Hats of to WWE for surprisingly pulling such a great feud out of their ass.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I just watched this War Games match that's on the nWo DVD. Its *Team WCW (Ultimate Warrior, Roddy Piper & Diamond Dallas Page) vs Team nWo Hollywood (Hollywood Hulk Hogan, Stevie Ray & Bret Hart) vs Team Wolfpac (Sting, Lex Luger & Kevin Nash)*
Despite it being billed as a team match, its actually every man for himself and a #1 contender's match. 


Its a pretty good match, I think the cage limited a lot of things and made the ring smaller than it needed to be. The 5 minute one on one portion between Bret and DDP was good. I felt that both guys had did a good job of wearing the other guy down. 

.
The story of Hogan using Stevie Ray and the slapjack weapon as enforcers to help him win worked for me. It gives Hogan an unfair advantage (which is good for a heel) and made Stevie Ray useful (because we know he doesn't deserve to be in that match right?) and of course every heel needs a goal. 
.
Warrior's entrance with the smoke in the ring and the fake Warrior getting slapjacked and stripped of his jacket was actually cool...I started to shit on it at first but it makes sense to distract Hogan and Stevie Ray while the REAL Warrior came out to take Hogan down. There was a decent brief exchange between the two that lead to Hogan running away and locking Warrior in the cage and ultimately Warrior kicks a corner of the cage loose, hurs himself getting out the ring and both he and Hogan disappear into the night fighting. 
.
In the ring among the confusion DDP drops Stevie Ray with the Diamond Cutter and wins the match (oh look Stevie Ray was useful again). 
.
I think the match was fairly good. I think the guys could have used more room to work. Even though they had 2 rings the cage seemed to really limit the action and the cameras made things a bit hard to follow but I enjoyed the match. *** 3/4


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not sure if it really counts as a feud but the Punk/Henry mini-program after Wrestlemania has to be one of the highlights of the year TV wise.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> So finally saw Cena/Orton BP and well, I freaking loved it!
> 
> You know, on one hand I hate how PG means no blood (unless it's Cena/Lesnar of course) but on the other hand the policy against blading really forces wrestlers to gout there and be creative and not rely on high spots and the image of blood cascading down a wrestler's face to put over the match.
> 
> ...


(Y)

I'm at **** atm. Been meaning to borrow the PPV and give it one more final go around with dem snowflakes. I could go up in my opinion. It's grand no matter what.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> This year has been INCREDIBLY top heavy.
> 
> When it comes to top match quality, I'd choose this year's top 10 matches over any other since about 2005 TBH. It's almost that time of year for YEAR-END LISTS ... OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY :brock


:mark:

I'm playing some catch up atm so I'll try and get a list locked down in time.



sharkboy22 said:


> While we're on the topic of year end lists, what's your favourote feud of 2012?
> 
> For me, it's definitely John Cena vs Brock Lensnar. Just 3 weeks of badass RAW after RAW with these two. Man that feud was INTENSE. It's been a long while since WWE churned out a feud with such intensity. It felt as if those two guys really hated each other. I still need to give the match a second viewing (haven't seen it since that night) but damn it's a stronger contender for me. I can't think of any other feud that rivals. Oh and that "I'm not a Superstar, I'm an ass kicker" promo will go down as one of the bests. 6 minutes and it puts over Lesnar, Cena and the match. Hats of to WWE for surprisingly pulling such a great feud out of their ass.


Hmm. I think probably Punk vs Jericho or Punk vs Danielson. Easy to capture my attention with both of those dream feuds.

~​*Smackdown 8/10/12​*Christian vs Antonio Cesaro ~ **1/2​
:mark:

It's too bad this only got 4 minutes. If it had another 4 it probably would be one of the funnest matches of the year. OWNS for what was given. Includes Cesaro's BEST swiss death uppercut since appearing on WWE TV. Perfection.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

When I'm done exams I might go through every PPV for the year to come up with a good list. Gonna need peeps to let me know what to check out from TV.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena/Del Rio from Smackdown last week is a good TV match worth checking out. It was a good back and forth match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Not alot of true ***** match candidates this year, only ones off the top of my head are Triple H/Taker WM28 and Punk/Bryan OTL. Lots of average and mediocre out there this year, outside of Punk and Bryan.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've given up on Punk/D-Bryan OTL. I've seen it about 2 or 3 times yet I still can't remember a damn thing about the match.

2012 just really doesn't have a match that stands out as the best for me. It's weird lol. Uusally, every year there's about 3, 4 heck maybe even 5 matches that wowed me and of the 5 there's the 1 that really just stands out. However, this year I can't think of anything else but Cena/Lesnar.

HHH/Taker I've seen twice and shat on both times. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of it. As previously mentioned, I can't recall a damn thing from Punk/Bryan OTL and I didn't like the MITB match much. Cnea/Punk was typical. Damn, there really isn't a match for me that stands out.

Guess I'm going to have to go with Cena/Lesnar by default.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ownage™ said:


> When I'm done exams I might go through every PPV for the year to come up with a good list. Gonna need peeps to let me know what to check out from TV.


You're on top with knowing about Punk vs Henry 4/2. Which is my pick for TV MOTY. Only match I think that could beat it was the first Punk vs Danielson match in February.

I'll try and work out a list for the fun of it in the coming days.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've given up on Punk/D-Bryan OTL. I've seen it about 2 or 3 times yet I still can't remember a damn thing about the match.
> 
> 2012 just really doesn't have a match that stands out as the best for me. It's weird lol. Uusally, every year there's about 3, 4 heck maybe even 5 matches that wowed me and of the 5 there's the 1 that really just stands out. However, this year I can't think of anything else but Cena/Lesnar.
> 
> ...


Bryan/Sheamus maybe?



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> You're on top with knowing about Punk vs Henry 4/2. Which is my pick for TV MOTY. Only match I think that could beat it was the first Punk vs Danielson match in February.
> 
> I'll try and work out a list for the fun of it in the coming days.


Saw that Punk/Bryan match too. It was damn good. 

Just watched Christian/Ziggler. Sweet little showcase of what they're capable of together. That's a combo guaranteed to produce something great if given the time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

1. Cena/Lesnar ER 12 : *******
2. Punk/Bryan OTL 12 : ***** 3/4*
3. Trips/Lesnar SS 12 : ***** 1/2*
4. Punk/Jericho WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
5. Trips/Taker WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
6. Bryan/Sheamus ER 12 : ***** 1/2*
7. Punk/Cena NOC 12 : ***** 1/4*
8. Punk/Henry 4/2/12 : ***** 1/4*
9. Sheamus/Show HIAC 12 : ******
10. Punk/Jericho ER 12 : ******
11. Punk/Bryan MITB 12 : ******
12. Punk/Henry 4/16/12 : **** 3/4*
13. Punk/Kane/Bryan NWO 12 : **** 3/4*
14. Punk/Jericho/Ziggler/Kingston/Miz/Truth EC 12 : **** 3/4*
15. Sheamus/Ziggler NWO 12 : **** 3/4*
16. Orton/Ziggler NOC 12 : **** 3/4*
17. Punk/Ziggler RR 12 : **** 1/2*
18. Sheamus/Bryan SF RAW : **** 1/2*
19. Sheamus/Jericho/Del Rio/Orton OTL 12 : **** 1/2*
20. Jericho/Ziggler SS 12 : **** 1/2*

That's my top 20 for the year so far ...

But post Christmas I'm going to do a rewatch of all 2012 PPVs as well as all *** 1/4+ TV matches ... It's weird because I consider myself kinda stingy with the snowflakes.... But I gave a TONof matches good ratings this year. One of the best in-ring years we've gotten in a while IMO.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've given up on Punk/D-Bryan OTL. I've seen it about 2 or 3 times yet I still can't remember a damn thing about the match.
> 
> 2012 just really doesn't have a match that stands out as the best for me. It's weird lol. Uusally, every year there's about 3, 4 heck maybe even 5 matches that wowed me and of the 5 there's the 1 that really just stands out. However, this year I can't think of anything else but Cena/Lesnar.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. Outside of a couple of matches, there really aren't that many stand-out matches. Obviously, it's all subjective and some peeps are more generous with their ratings than others. But compared to previous years, this year is kind of "meh" with quality matches, IMO. Some of the ratings for matches you see on some sites and you just shake your head in amazement at the generosity of some the reviewers. If they really think these matches are that good, they would probably shit themselves back when, you know, wrestling was good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ownage™;12342659 said:


> Saw that Punk/Bryan match too. It was damn good.
> 
> Just watched Christian/Ziggler. Sweet little showcase of what they're capable of together. That's a combo guaranteed to produce something great if given the time.


(Y)

You have to watch Christian vs McIntyre from 5/31. Rewatched it atm. Even better this time around. One of the best on TV all year. Probably #3. McIntyre is a star. Christian has chemistry with SO many opponents. It's absurd. ****. Maybe I'm marking out for it a bit more than others, but wow.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm too hardcore for star ratings now. Or not hardcore enough? Not sure.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

This year has been absolutely awesome as far as matches go. Top 10 so far

1. Bryan/Punk OTL *****3/4*
1a. Cena/Lesnar ER *****3/4*
3. Bryan/Sheamus ER *****1/2*
4. Trips/Taker WM *****1/4*
5. Punk/Jericho WM *****1/4*
6. Punk/Henry Raw 4/2/12 *****1/4*
7. Punk/Jericho ER ******
8. Punk/Cena NOC ******
9. Sheamus/Show HIAC ******
10. Punk/Bryan MITB ******


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The match I HAVE to see from this year is Sheamus vs Big Show from Hell in a Cell. I can't make a list and not given that a chance. It's been far too pimped by everybody. I was one of the few who was excited to see it too.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> (Y)
> 
> You have to watch Christian vs McIntyre from 5/31. Rewatched it atm. Even better this time around. One of the best on TV all year. Probably #3. McIntyre is a star. Christian has chemistry with SO many opponents. It's absurd. ****. Maybe I'm marking out for it a bit more than others, but wow.


I HAVE TO CHECK THIS OUT. Mcintyre's one of my favorite workers in the company. Top 2 in the company as a heel worker along with punk.

Heel Mcintyre vs. Face Christian :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> The match I HAVE to see from this year is Sheamus vs Big Show from Hell in a Cell. I can't make a list and not given that a chance. It's been far too pimped by everybody. I was one of the few who was excited to see it too.


Well structured, really physical, awesome big man match. You need to watch that match ASAP


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YES. WATCH ASAP.

It might be on Dailymotion. I watched via this:






Pretty garbage edition pardon the superb main event.

I'm gonna try and get on Sheamus/Show as soon as I possibly can. No luck with torrents lately. </3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

"If they really think these matches are that good, they would probably shit themselves back when, you know, wrestling was good.|

PLEASE , elaborate on what you mean when you say "when wrestling was good" . I've seen the best of the best as most of the individuals on this thread have, and from my point of view .... This is the greatest year from a work-standpoint since 2005. The top five matches from this year beat the top five matches of probably 17-18 of the last 20 years. AGAIN ; just my opinion.

In other news ; Sheamus is horribly underrated as a worker and deserves a 15+ minute match at Mania (I wish with Bryan). Orton-Sheamus could be a nice piece to go along with the other huge matches.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> YES. WATCH ASAP.
> 
> It might be on Dailymotion. I watched via this:
> 
> ...


Link to the Match

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu...l-2012-sheamus-vs-big-show_sport#.UL7i15PjkSg


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus OWNS. Workhorse. That's even without seeing his matches vs Big Show.

omg a link. I'm watching RIGHT NOW. :mark:


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> "If they really think these matches are that good, they would probably shit themselves back when, you know, wrestling was good.|
> 
> PLEASE , elaborate on what you mean when you say "when wrestling was good" . I've seen the best of the best as most of the individuals on this thread have, and from my point of view .... This is the greatest year from a work-standpoint since 2005. The top five matches from this year beat the top five matches of probably 17-18 of the last 20 years. AGAIN ; just my opinion.
> 
> In other news ; Sheamus is horribly underrated as a worker and deserves a 15+ minute match at Mania (I wish with Bryan). Orton-Sheamus could be a nice piece to go along with the other huge matches.


They can't handle DAT PUNK TITLE REIGN unk

381 DAYS :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Meaning when storylines made sense, more then 5 wrestlers were given storylines to work with, when mid-carders actually had storylines and characters and when more than just some of the roster gave a shit. Even Daniel Bryan said there are a ton of wrestlers backstage at TV Tapings just hoping they don't get picked to be in a match, but I digress. I think this year was very mediocre in terms of match quality. Outside of Punk and Bryan there was very little to watch in terms of good matches. The top 5 matches from this year don't come close to the top 5 matches in alot of other years for me. Like I said in my first post, outside of Punk/Bryan at OTL and Taker/Triple H at WM, I think there is a sizable drop off after that.



^"They can't handle DAT PUNK TITLE REIGN"

Huh? I actually like Punk...alot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everybody has an opinion , I'm just curious...

Five years out of the last 15 that you feel are better "match-wise" than 2012 ?

BTW, watching the NWO DVD now. Doc was short but okay, didn't really get too in depth, kind of a "NWO 4 DUMMIEZ" type deal. Watched the segments and now I'm onto the matches. Only really excited for Savage-DDP , everything else can go fuck itself. Gonna drop a full DVD review of this in a few days to let everybody know should they pick it up this holiday season   

Because everybody values my opinion, right ? unk2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which DDP vs Savage match is it? Their Great American Bash match made Savage's set so if it is Spring Stampede or Halloween Havoc then that rocks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HALLOWEEN HAVOC :mark:

Honestly, I hope we eventually get another set with the third match on it. Their GAB match is one of my favorite (and best) WCW matches ever. Savage and DDP's feud was just so fucking awesome that I can't comprehend the sheer awesomeness. I have to get through an entire disc to get to that match though...

_Outsiders vs Lex Luger/Sting/Randy Savage (Bash at the Beach 1996)_

The first match from the set. This is so Hogan-Andre like in the sense that it's a VERY sub-par match with a great ending moment. However, this match is miles ahead of Hogan-Andre as Savage sometimes makes it watchable. Not good whatsoever , but perhaps the biggest moment in wrestling so I'll take it for what it is. LOVE Hogan's post match promo and how nuts Tony Schiavone goes at the prospect of Hulk turning heel 

"HULK HOGAN YOU CAN GO TO HELL..... Tune in tomorrow night and.... STRAIGHT TO HELL " He changes his tone so fucking fast it's awesome :lol

OH FUCK.... Giant vs Hogan from Road Wild next... I remember this match as the match of 1000 back-rakes ..... 

****

Pretty entertaining DVD so far though.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Just watched the Christian/Mcintyre match, wow that was great. ***3/4 LOVE THIS

This match just reaffirms why Mcintyre should at least be the workhorse of the midcard. Give him the IC belt and let him have great matches. He's such a great worker, his control workover segments are so damn entertaining. He's so great at the little things in a match. Mcintyre played a great desperate heel, the commentators bringing up his recent struggles really played to how much Mcintyre wanted to beat Christian. I loved the part where Mcintyre was stomping his feet in the cover, little things that add to character work. 
Christian has great chemistry with anybody so this was bound to be a great match, having somebody like Mcintyre against him made this a fantastic match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> HALLOWEEN HAVOC :mark:
> 
> Honestly, I hope we eventually get another set with the third match on it. Their GAB match is one of my favorite (and best) WCW matches ever. Savage and DDP's feud was just so fucking awesome that I can't comprehend the sheer awesomeness. I have to get through an entire disc to get to that match though...
> 
> ...


SUDDEN DEATH MATCH~!

Yep. Spring Stampede needs to make a set now. Idc how. It has to. DDP vs Savage was the hightlight of my '97. Well tied with Undertaker as WWF Champion. It was my favorite program of the year. Trumping Austin vs Hart Foundation.

I don't mind the BATB 6 man. Crowd ate up all the elements. It had a classic finish although it was a no contest the moment Hogan dropped the leg on Savage. It's got appeal for me. 

PLEASE don't watch Giant vs Hogan from Hog Wild. I'm serious. Never been more serious. You know it's a DUD. Skip it. Worst. Match. Ever.



DFUSCMAN said:


> Just watched the Christian/Mcintyre match, wow that was great. **** LOVE THIS
> 
> This match just reaffirms why Mcintyre should at least be the workhorse of the midcard. Give him the IC belt and let him have great matches. He's such a great worker, his control workover segments are so damn entertaining. He's so great at the little things in a match. Mcintyre played a great desperate heel, the commentators bringing up his recent struggles really played to how much Mcintyre wanted to beat Christian. I loved the part where Mcintyre was stomping his feet in the cover, little things that add to character work.
> Christian has great chemistry with anybody so this was bound to be a great match, having somebody like Mcintyre against him made this a fantastic match.


Catching Christian mid air -> into a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker + deadlift electric chair drop = :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> SUDDEN DEATH MATCH~!
> 
> Yep. Spring Stampede needs to make a set now. Idc how. It has to. DDP vs Savage was the hightlight of my '97. Well tied with Undertaker as WWF Champion. It was my favorite program of the year. Trumping Austin vs Hart Foundation.
> 
> ...


The electric chair spot was amazing. I LOVED where Mcintyre kicks christian's arm when he's going for the springboard roll up spot. Oh and when Mcintyre hits his shoulder on the post, that sounded so painful. Jeez.

Hog Wild is a horrendous match, but it's not even the worst match WCW put on in 1996.

How can we forget this gem. 

Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Meng, The Barbarian, Lex Luger, Kevin Sullivan, Z-Gangsta and The Ultimate Solution Tower of Doom match from WCW Uncensored. In other words it's the mega powers vs. the alliance

Ugh....that match is the clusterfuck of all clusterfucks


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

1997

1. HBK/Taker HIAC *****
2. Hart/Austin WM13 *****
3. Owen/Bulldog 3/1/97 Raw ****3/4
4. HBK/Austin vs. Owen/Bulldog 5/26/97 Raw ****3/4
5. Bret Hart/Owen Hart/Davey Boy Smith/Jim Neidhart/Brian Pillman vs. Steve Austin/Legion of Doom/Goldust/Ken Shamrock Canadian Stampede ****1/2

(Honorable mention HBK/Austin KOTR 97, Triple H/Cactus Jack Street Fight at MSG Raw 9/22/97 and Triple H/Mankind Cage match at Summerslam 97, and HBK/Bret Survivor Series 97)

2000

1. Triple H/Cactus Jack RR 00 *****
2. Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (Hell in the Cell) *****
3. Edge/Christian vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley (Ladder) WM 2000 *****
4. Triple H/Rock Ironman Match Judgement Day 2000 ****1/2
5. Triple H/Jericho Fully Loaded 2000 ****1/2

2001

1. Chris Jericho/Benoit Ladder Match RR 01 *****
2. Austin/Rock WM 17 *****
3. Triple H vs Austin 3 Stages of Hell ****3/4
4. Edge/Christian vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley (Tables, Ladders & Chairs WM 2000 ****3/4
5. Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin SummerSlam 01 ****1/2

2002

1. HBK/Triple H SummerSlam 02 *****
2. Brock/Taker HIAC *****
3. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle Unforgiven ****1/2
4. Rock/Brock SummerSlam 02 ****1/2
5. Hogan/Rock WM 18 ****1/4

2003

1. Angle/Benoit RR 03 *****
2. Angle/Lesnar WM 19 ****3/4
3. Austin/Rock WM 19 ****1/2
4. HBK/Jericho WM 19 ****1/2
5. Angle/Lesnar IronMan ****1/2
Honorable mention: Angle/Taker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> The electric chair spot was amazing. I LOVED where Mcintyre kicks christian's arm when he's going for the springboard roll up spot. Oh and when Mcintyre hits his shoulder on the post, that sounded so painful. Jeez.
> 
> Hog Wild is a horrendous match, but it's not even the worst match WCW put on in 1996.
> 
> ...


Drew busting out a plethora of new moves to brutalize Christian's injured chest/rib area was gold. The kind of gems that you get out of matches on Superstars. Or used to. McIntyre needs a revival of his Chosen One push.

Oh lord. When you claimed there was a match worse than Hogan/Giant from '96 I was really gonna debate you. Then you mention Tower of Doom. I'll say they're equal in terms of being just total mindfucks on the bad scale. Tower of Doom was such a schmoz of a gimmick that it hurts my brain.

How does that and Finlay/Regal occur on the same show? You go from the highest high or the year to the lowest low in the span of 90 minutes.

I'd argue that Austin/Angle from Summerslam 2001 blew away everything else that year pardon the Two Man Power Trip vs Canadians tag.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Years with TOP matches better than 2012 : 1997, 2000, 2001, 2005

_The Giant vs Hulk Hogan (Hog Wild 1996)_

So, I saw this like two years ago and don't remember a damn thing about it other than it being completely horrible. I'm going to be optimistic about it this time. The bell ring and..... YEAH THIS IS BAD. REALLY REALLY BAD. They're moving like two sumo wrestlers covered in molasses out there, and the work being out in is even worse ; as I'm writing this Hogan has The Giant in what seems to be a 64 minute knucklelock. Hogan has the most uninspired offense I've ever seen in this match, just absolutely horrible.

I mean, the only moves Hogan uses in this match are as follows ; Knucklelock, arm-lock, back-rake X 678430 , punch, belt shot. WHO HAD THE BRILLIANT FUCKING IDEA TO GIVE THIS SO MUCH TIME ?!?!?! One of, if not THE worst main event singles match that I've ever seen. Of course we can't even get a good finish either, as the ending belt shot is so incredibly weak and unconvincingly horrible that I'm half ashamed to somewhat like Hogan. I mean, I feel bad for Giant because he was really green at this point, but as a supposed "ring-veteran" , Hogan should have been better than this... AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHORTER.

Avoid at all costs unless you're a super Hogan mark who has to see every single Hogan title change in history. Fucking bullshit.

*DUD*

Speaking of every Hogan match in history, check this ish out : 

http://hulkhoganhistory.weebly.com/match-history.html

Homie has every single Hogan match he could find listed on there, and a TON of them have videos (some real goodies on there) . Check it out if you like rare matches , or you're somewhat of a Hogan fan in general. So many links on there it's insane ; wish we had this kind of site for Trips :hogan :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

15 minute match with 10 minute stalling. Go the FUCK away. One of the few matches I pondered giving a negative rating too.

It's so bad it makes the other terrible Hogan WCW matches look solid. Matches vs Piper aren't so bad after watching that one. NBA tag from Bash at the Beach '98 is still just as horrid though. Not all matches are immune.

If that Hogan site has his match vs Bob Backlund from 4/12/80 then (Y) It's on a Hogan DVD set so it has to make it. I've said it a few times before in here and I'll say it again: Best Hogan match ever.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Drew busting out a plethora of new moves to brutalize Christian's injured chest/rib area was gold. The kind of gems that you get out of matches on Superstars. Or used to. McIntyre needs a revival of his Chosen One push.
> 
> Oh lord. When you claimed there was a match worse than Hogan/Giant from '96 I was really gonna debate you. Then you mention Tower of Doom. I'll say they're equal in terms of being just total mindfucks on the bad scale. Tower of Doom was such a schmoz of a gimmick that it hurts my brain.
> 
> ...


Hog Wild and that tower of doom match are on nearly equal levels of shit. Hog Wild is just so boring, Hogan rolls out of the ring for what seems like forever and when the match does finally get started it's nothing special. Then the finish happens. 

Tower of Doom is a match that makes no fucking sense at all. The entire concept of the match makes my brain hurt. WHY ARE THERE LEVELS? The gimmick doesn't make any sense at all and it's just a massive clusterfuck. The finish is the stupidest thing i've ever seen, the match is stupid, HATE HATE HATE this match. IT'S 2 ON 8 IN A MULTI LAYER STEEL CAGE. WHAT THE FUCK

Lower than a dud, negative stars


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Tower of DOOM is Trips-Steiner bad .... It's so awful that it's actually awesome. You get a degree of entertainment out of it that you don't get out of the average match. I'd rather watch Trips-Steiner than a ** 3/4-*** match that I'd forget about.

Remember watching that Hogan-Backlund match a while ago and thinking it was pretty damn good. Might as well throw in a bonus match review for y'all as I keep on trucking through this DVD

_The Outsiders vs Harlem Heat (Halloween Havoc 1996)_

I'm a big fan of Booker throughout his career. However, when it comes to Harlem Heat I was always a little bit iffy. This match was, in short.... Forgettable. I just watched it and I honestly have no fucking clue what happened in it. I remember a Harlem Hangover (AWESOME) , the Outsiders being super fucking over , and some typical NWO shenanigans leading to the finish. Scott Hall was probably the best in this match, as he actually took a few good bumps that made me pretty impressed with his work.

Surprising of course, because those with the guranteed contracts in WCW are usually guranteed to be complete trash. This match came and went with some solid bumping from Hall, but overall a very uninspired effort by both teams, dissapointing... Well, not really... It's Hall and Nash.

****

BONUS MATCH

_Syxx vs The Bounty Hunter (NWO Saturday Night 1996)_

SO, Bounty Hunter is essentially a fat motherfucker who happens to be a jobber. This is a Syxx showcase in an empty arena of all places. This match is a squash done in all black and white, complete with Hall and Nash commentary, Dibiase ring announcing, and the like. It's pretty creative I must say, but how in the name of fuck am I supposed to review an empty-arena squash filmed exclusively in black and white ? Syxx OBVIOUSLY wins , and we get a promo afterwards.

Not rateable in the slightest, but an interesting concept and obviously included on the DVD to showcase NWO Saturday Night and the difference between NWO and WCW. I'm definitely glad I saw the segment for some reason, strangely entertaining 

*No Rating*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Hog Wild and that tower of doom match are on nearly equal levels of shit. Hog Wild is just so boring, Hogan rolls out of the ring for what seems like forever and when the match does finally get started it's nothing special. Then the finish happens.
> 
> Tower of Doom is a match that makes no fucking sense at all. The entire concept of the match makes my brain hurt. WHY ARE THERE LEVELS? The gimmick doesn't make any sense at all and it's just a massive clusterfuck. The finish is the stupidest thing i've ever seen, the match is stupid, HATE HATE HATE this match. IT'S 2 ON 8 IN A MULTI LAYER STEEL CAGE. WHAT THE FUCK
> 
> Lower than a dud, negative stars


:lmao

Almost WCW in a nutshell when it came to some things. (maybe more than "some")

That match is so bad that the next time a mutli-layered steel cage match happened it had David Arquette as the World Champion and it was LOADS better. That doesn't do it justice. It was 100,000,000x more bearable. It was actually a good match, imo.

Arquette didn't do anything, but miss a splash and screw DDP. While letting Page & Jarrett beat the snot out of each other. About as "smart" as WCW could have been in that situation.

~​
Yep, the Hogan/Backlund match is boss. I <3 it so much.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Tower of Doom no matter how much I despise the match never fails to make me laugh, the frying pans might be the dumbest weapon ever used in a wrestling match. The finish is so terrible and horribly done that I crack up whenever I see it. But it is so awful, so so awful. 

Now you made me want to watch Trips/Steiner again. HERE COME THE LAUGHS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just watch Steinermania #1 to get your fill of that match.

Belly to belly suplex counter. Oh, how fun.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Just watch Steinermania #1 to get your fill of that match.
> 
> Belly to belly suplex counter. Oh, how fun.


Steiner and Trips might have the worst in ring chemistry i've ever seen. The true question is which match is worse, Trips/Steiner Royal Rumble or Trips/Steiner No Way Out

Both matches are hilarious either way


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, Rumble in a landslide. NWO was better, although along the lines of piss-poor quality too.

Well, Sheamus vs Big Show I was excellent. Can't add anything more to it than what has been said since Hell in a Cell. Finishing stretch was HOT. ****.

Looking forward to seeing Survivor Series now. TLC should hopefully be something special too. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Stevie Ray is one of the worst wrestlers of all time. I hope there's a 20 minute Stevie Ray v someone else Worst of All Time-level like Konnan match from late 90s WCW because it would easily surpass HHH/Steiner.

I kind of like Hogan/Giant. 

Rumble Trip/Steiner is better than NWO because it's so much worse than NWO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Stevie Ray is one of the worst wrestlers of all time. I hope there's a 20 minute Stevie Ray v someone else Worst of All Time-level like Konnan match from late 90s WCW because it would easily surpass HHH/Steiner.
> 
> *I kind of like Hogan/Giant.*
> 
> Rumble Trip/Steiner is better than NWO because it's so much worse than NWO.


*FLABBERGASTED*

Wrestlecrap mentality is the only thing I can accept.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wrote this about it a couple of years ago:



> Hulk Hogan v The Giant (WCW 10/8/96)
> --Good enough, I guess. About as good as heel Hulk Hogan at 600 years old and Paul Wight in the first year of his career would get. Pretty slow, but I didn't want it any other way, they actually tried to outpower each other almost the whole thing (when Hogan wasn't doing some of the best stalling ever). There wasn't any of this Hogan superman stuff either, he had to yank the gigantic hair from the gigantic head of The Giant to even be in contention to win the Greco-Roman tie-ups. I loved when he pointed the referee toward his head to show Wight was pulling his hair (when he wasn't), so the ref couldn't see HE was pulling Wight's hair. Nash and Hall's interference was done better than most mid-late 90s WCW run-ins as well. The Giant hulking up was something else.


I have no idea if it holds up. I mean a match being "good enough I guess" probably doesn't deserve the term "holds up" anyway.  Saying Hogan's stalling was some of the best ever seems like hyperbole, I'll admit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The stalling was the part of the match I despised the most, haha. It's on my hit list of matches. Dare I say #1.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Konann vs Jericho from starcade 98 is a nice little match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Konnan was pretty trashy. I like that Jericho fellow.

Mysterio vs Kidman vs Juvi from that PPV = :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I liked Konnan. No idea why I did, but I did.

ahh WCW, so much reminiscing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I did when I was a kid. Wolfpac and all that awesome stuff. 

Looking back he doesn't do anything for me. Even from a nostalgic standpoint. He did have a surprisingly above average/solid affair with Disco Inferno from Spring Stampede 1999. While I don't think Disco was bad, it wasn't what I was expecting going in.

WCW is BOSS. All aspects. From the high grade quality matches of the early 90's/stellar cruiserweight performances or the fun wrestlecrap aspects that were the oodles of gimmicks & mind boggling booking decisions. And everything in between.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

There was a fatal four I enjoyed. I think it was DDP vs Goldberg vs Sting vs ??

cant remember...loved sting


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kevin Nash. 

Same night where Sting won the WCW Championship from DDP. Sting is legit.

That singles match rocks. 4 way is on youtube. I should relive the memories.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The first time DDP won the title was also good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Also, DDP got a good match out of Goldberg.

Loved DDP. Its a shame he was buried in wwf.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More Spring Stampede '99 goodness. DDP's championship win is (Y)

DDP vs Goldberg from Halloween Havoc was just pimped out a page or two back. LOVE that match. So damn much. DDP takes the spear like a champ.

I agree. DDP vs Undertaker should have played out MUCH better than it did.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I can't seem to find the fatal four way where he won it though. DDP vs Sting vs Flair vs Hogan I think it was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't find it either. Seems like every other DDP match in WCW is online except for that one.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa2nyu_ddp-vs-sting-vs-ric-flair-vs-hollyw_sport#.UL8vcuTqmSp

:mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Random as fuck: Why do they always emphasize the "pinfall and submission" shit with matches endings? Is it that hard to add the words KNOCKOUT or TKO (ref stoppage) too? I'd like to see a WWE match ending with TKO or KO (not counting LMS matches), what do you think?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Arrived today. I'm getting a lot of stuff over Xmas time too. When I finally get some time off in January I'm just going to sit and watch everything for like a week lol. No insert with the Flair doc though. Shit lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was thinking of getting that Best PPV Matches 2011 Bluray, but after looking at the listings it was a waste of money. I own WM on Bluray. Own SummerSlam on Bluray. Got the Christian/Del Rio match on the second Ladder Match set (Bluray) and got Punk/Cena on Bluray with Punk's set (and a live recording of the event... on Bluray). That's like, 99% of the good stuff covered .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I only have Mania 27 from 2011 and nothing else so it was a smart pick up for me. I tend not to buy full PPV shows and just stick to superstar docs and specialist sets etc. I'm debating on getting the 2010 set. It's only 6.99 atm. I might wait until after Xmas and get it if it's still there. Maybe. I'm also looking to get the Best of Raw/SD 11 if it goes down on price. I made myself a list lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 WWF/E Matches since 2000 (might be missing some TV stuff for a couple of years):

2000

1. Cactus Jack Vs Triple H - Street Fight - Royal Rumble - ****3/4
2. Chris Jericho Vs Triple H - Last Man Standing - Fully Loaded - ****3/4
3. The Rock Vs Triple H - Iron Man - Judgment Day - ****1/2
4. The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - Triangle Ladder - WrestleMania - ****1/2
5. The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC - SummerSlam - ****1/2


2001

1. Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam - ****3/4
2. Steve Austin Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown - ****3/4
3. Steve Austin Vs The Rock - WrestleMania - ****1/2
4. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC III - Smackdown - ****1/2
5. Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - Ladder - Royal Rumble - ****1/2


2002

1. The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - Hell in a Cell - No Mercy - ****3/4
2. Edge & Rey Mysterio Vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - No Mercy - ****3/4
3. The Rock Vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam - ****1/4
4. The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - WrestleMania - ****1/4
5. Eddie Guerrero Vs Rb Van Dam - Backlash - ****1/4


2003

1. Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam - *****
2. Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown - ****3/4
3. Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - Iron Man - Smackdown - ****1/2
4. Steve Austin Vs The Rock - WrestleMania - ****1/2
5. Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble - ****1/2


2004

1. Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - WrestleMania - ****3/4
2. Eddie Guerrero Vs John Bradshaw Layfield - Judgment Day - ****1/2
3. Chris Jericho Vs Christian - WrestleMania - ****1/2
4. Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out - ****1/2
5. The Undertaker Vs John Bradshaw Layfield - Last Ride - No Mercy - ****1/4


2005

1. Triple H Vs Batista - Hell in a Cell - Vengeance - ****3/4
2. The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - Hell in a Cell - Armageddon - ****1/2
3. Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown - ****1/2
4. Edge Vs Chris Benoit Vs Christian Vs Chris Jericho Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Kane - Money in the Bank Ladder - WrestleMania - ****1/2
5. Triple H Vs Randy Orton Vs Batista Vs Edge Vs Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Elimination Chamber III - New Years Revolution - ****1/2


2006

1. The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - No Way Out - ****3/4
2. Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown - ****1/2
3. The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown - ****1/4
4, Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day - ****1/4
5. Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown - ****1/4


2007

1. The Undertaker Vs Batista - WrestleMania - ****1/2
2. The Undertaker Vs Batista - Cyber Sunday - ****1/4
3. Shawn Michaels Vs Randy Orton - Suvivor Series - ****1/4
4. The Undertaker & Batista Vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena - No Way Out - ****1/4
5. The Undertaker Vs Batista - Hell in a Cell - Survivor Series - ****1/4


2008

1. The Undertaker Vs Edge - WrestleMania - ****1/2
2. Randy Orton Vs John Cena - No Way Out - ****1/4
3. CM Punk Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs MVP Vs Chris Jericho Vs Carlito Vs Mr Kennedy Vs John Morrison - Money in the Bank Ladder - WrestleMania - ****1/4
4. The Undertaker Vs Edge - Judgment Day - ****1/4
5. Triple H Vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy - ****1/4


2009

1. The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania - *****
2. Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW - ****1/2
3. Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble - ****1/4
4. Christian Vs William Regal - ECW - ****1/4
5. Jack Swagger Vs Christian - Backlash - ****


2010

1. The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania - *****
2. Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW - ****1/4
3. The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - Smackdown - ****
4. The Miz Vs Randy Orton Vs Edge Vs Mark Henry Vs Chris Jericho Vs John Morrison Vs Ted DiBiase Vs Evan Bourne - Money in the Bank - ****
5. Daniel Bryan Vs The Miz - Night of Champions - ****


2011

1. The Undertaker Vs Triple H - WrestleMania - ****3/4
2. John Cena Vs CM Punk - Money in the Bank - ****3/4
3. John Cena Vs CM Punk - SummerSlam - ****1/2
4. Christian Vs Randy Orton - SummerSlam - ****1/4
5. Christian Vs Alberto Del Rio - Ladder - Extreme Rules - ****1/4


2012

=1. The Undertaker Vs Triple H - Hell in a Cell - WrestleMania - ****3/4
=1. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit - ****3/4
3. CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - WrestleMania - ****1/2
4. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena - Extreme Rules - ****1/2
5. Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan - 2 out of 3 Falls - Extreme Rules - ****1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Way to go post something like that just before I have to leave. Where was this half an hour ago lol. I'll do mine when I get back later tonight if I remember.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was still putting it together half an hour ago .


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Made a thread about this but I think I'll get better responses here.

What are the best NWA/WCW PPVs? Simple question really. Never really looked into NWA/WCW too much and I wondered what are some good PPVs to see. I'm not into shows that just have a strong historical importance and more about shows just being highly enjoyable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cacti Roasting On An Open Fire said:


> Made a thread about this but I think I'll get better responses here.
> 
> What are the best NWA/WCW PPVs? Simple question really. Never really looked into NWA/WCW too much and I wondered what are some good PPVs to see. I'm not into shows that just have a strong historical importance and more about shows just being highly enjoyable.


BEACH BLAST 1992. That's the best place to start because, well, its the best.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have not seen every single year so my list is on most years very limited and as such, some big time classics may be left out.

2000:
1. The Rock vs Chris Benoit - Fully Loaded (****3/4)
2. The Rock vs Triple H - Backlash (****1/2)
3. Triple H vs Cactus Jack - No Way Out (****1/2)
4. Triple H vs Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded (****1/2)
5. Edge/Christian vs Dudley Boyz vs Hardy's - SummerSlam (****1/2)

2001:
1. Stone Cold vs The Rock - Wrestlemania 17 (*****)
2. Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown (****3/4)
3. Edge/Christian vs Dudley Boyz vs Hardy's - Wrestlemania 17 (****1/2)
4. Benoit/Jericho vs HHH/Stone Cold - Raw (****1/2)
5. Benoit/Jericho vs Edge/Christian vs Dudley Boyz vs Hardy's - Smackdown (****1/2)

2002:
1. The Rock vs Undertaker vs Kurt Angle - Vengeance (****3/4)
2. Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker - No Mercy (****1/2)
3. Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs Edge & Rey Mysterio - No Mercy (****1/2)
4. Brock Lesnar vs The Rock - SummerSlam (****1/4)
5. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan - Wrestlemania 18 (****1/4)

2003:
1. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble (*****)
2. The Rock vs Stone Cold - Wrestlemania XIX (****1/2)
3. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown (****1/2)
4. Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown (****1/4)
5. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam (****)

2004:
1. Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX (*****)
2. Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar - No Way Out (****3/4)
3. Randy Orton vs Mick Foley - Backlash (****1/2)
4. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - SummerSlam (****1/2)
5. Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - Backlash (****1/2)

2005:
1. Batista vs Triple H - Vengeance (****3/4)
2. Elimination Chamber III - New Year's Revolution (****3/4)
3. John Cena vs JBL - Judgment Day (****1/2)
4. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - Armageddon (****1/2)
5. Money in the Bank - Wrestlemania 21 (****1/2)

2006:
1. Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - No Way Out (****3/4)
2. John Cena vs Edge - Unforgiven (****1/2)
3. Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton - Smackdown (****1/2)
4. Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton - Smackdown (****1/4)
5. Chris Benoit vs Finlay - Judgment Day (****1/4)

2007:
1. The Undertaker vs Batista - Wrestlemania 23 (****1/2)
2. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - Survivor Series (****1/2)
3. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels vs Edge - Backlash (****1/2)
4. John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble (****1/2)
5. John Cena vs Randy Orton - SummerSlam (****1/4)

Skipping 2008 & 2009 because I have not seen enough of them and 2010 because outside of Wrestlemania 26, I have not watched any of it since they originally happened.

2011:
1. CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the Bank (****1/2)
2. Randy Orton vs Christian - Over the Limit (****1/2)
3. Randy Orton vs Christian - SummerSlam (****1/4)
4. Christian vs Alberto del Rio - Extreme Rules (****)
5. Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan (Steel Cage) - Smackdown (****)

2012:
1. The Undertaker vs Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****3/4)
2. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules (****1/2)
3. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules (****1/2)
4. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit (****1/4)
5. Big Show vs Sheamus - Hell in a Cell (****)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Finals are done and now I have all the time on my hands. I'm going to compile my own list for the first time. Gonna put together a top 10 (maybe top 20, who knows) John Cena matches.


----------



## RobsYourUncle (Jan 29, 2012)

Cacti Roasting On An Open Fire said:


> Made a thread about this but I think I'll get better responses here.
> 
> What are the best NWA/WCW PPVs? Simple question really. Never really looked into NWA/WCW too much and I wondered what are some good PPVs to see. I'm not into shows that just have a strong historical importance and more about shows just being highly enjoyable.


On a slightly related note, I ordered the Best of Clash of the Champions blu-ray last week and it arrived yesterday, gonna get stuck into it over the weekend. What's the opinions on the set? Probably should've asked before I bought it, but it was an impulse buy


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Depends on how many other DVDs you own, TBH.

If you own Flair's two sets It's a HORRIBLE buy IMO , there's too much complete garbage on it for a "best of". Koloff vs Morton ? Mascaras vs Foley ? Terrible. One of my least favorite DVD COMPS ever done by WWE for sure. Then again ..... When it comes to WCW match comps , the E' always loves to fuck it up (SEE : BEST OF NITRO).

See DAT Raw/SD 12 set with DAT Trips on the spine ? :hhh


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cacti Roasting On An Open Fire said:


> Made a thread about this but I think I'll get better responses here.
> 
> What are the best NWA/WCW PPVs? Simple question really. Never really looked into NWA/WCW too much and I wondered what are some good PPVs to see. I'm not into shows that just have a strong historical importance and more about shows just being highly enjoyable.


Definitely Beach Blast 1992. The whole damn card is good. Bash '89 is highly regarded as one of the all time greats. Sting/Muta, Luger/Steamboat, Wargames, plus Flair/Funk. As far as late WCW goes, Spring Stampede '99 is a fun show. Lots of good stuff on there.

The Best of Smackdown/RAW 2012 cover's out. Love Sandow making the front. Also good to see Sheamus/Orton will be included. Don't remember Kane/Ryder FCA though. Assuming it's a squash or a no contest.

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-best-raw-smackdown-2012-dvd-blu-ray-cover/31272/


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Cal, how did you go from rating the 02 Vengeance triple threat a ***** to dropping it all the way out of your top 5 of the year? Changed your opinion on it THAT much?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep lol. Went from ***** to **** on last watch. Just didn't click for me like it did in the past. Shame really. I still love it a ton though.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Do you still have Angle/Lesnar from SummerSlam at *****? Please say no.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I most certainly do . MOTY for 03 .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2000

1. Triple H vs Cactus Jack RR : *******
2. Triple H vs Chris Jericho FL : *******
3. Triple H vs The Rock JD : ***** 1/2*
4. Triple H vs Cactus Jack NWO : ***** 1/2*
5. Triple H vs Chris Benoit NM : ***** 1/4*
6. Triple H vs The Rock BL 00 : ***** 1/4*
7. Triple H/The Radicalz vs The Rock/Too Cool/Rikishi/Foley RAW : ******
8. Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty BL 00 : ******
9. Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho BL 00 : ******
10. Eddie Guerrero vs Essa Rios BL 00 : ******

2001

1. Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit SD : ***** 3/4*
2. Steve Austin/Triple H vs Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho RAW : ***** 3/4*
3. Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle SS : ***** 3/4*
4. Steve Austin vs The Rock WM : ***** 3/4*
5. Steve Austin vs Triple H NWO : ***** 3/4*
6. Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit RR : ***** 1/2*
7. Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs Edge/Christian vs Hardyz vs Dudleyz SD : ***** 1/2*
8. Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle UNF : ***** 1/4*
9. Steve Austin/Triple H vs Kane/The Undertaker BL : ***** 1/4*
10. The Undertaker vs Triple H WM : ******

2002

1. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels SS : *******
2. Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker NM : ***** 3/4*
3. The Undertaker vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle VEN : ***** 1/2*
4. Edge/Rey Mysterio vs Chris Benoit/Kurt Angle NM : ***** 1/2*
5. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Kane vs Booker T vs Chris Jericho vs RVD SS : ***** 1/2*
6. Brock Lesnar vs The Rock SS : ***** 1/4*
7. Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker UNF : ***** 1/4*
8. Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle UNF : ***** 1/4*
9. Chris Benoit/Kurt Angle vs Edge/Rey Mysterio SD : ***** 1/4*
10. Eddie Guerrero vs Rob Van Dam RAW : ******

2003

1. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit RR : ***** 3/4*
2. Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar SD : ***** 1/2*
3. Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar vs Big Show VEN : ***** 1/2*
4. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels RAW : ***** 1/2*
5. Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker SD : ***** 1/2*
6. Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar WM XIX : ***** 1/4*
7. Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar SS : ***** 1/4*
8. Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show JD : ***** 1/4*
9. Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit SD : ***** 1/4*
10. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho WM : ***** 1/4*

2004

1. Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels WM : *******
2. Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero : ***** 3/4*
3. Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels BL : ***** 1/2*
4. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL JD : ***** 1/2*
5. Randy Orton vs Mick Foley BL : ***** 1/2*
6. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit SS : ***** 1/4*
7. Chris Benoit vs Triple H RAW : ***** 1/4*
8. Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels RAW (May) : ***** 1/4*
9. Chris Benoit vs Kane BB : ***** 1/4*
10. Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle WM : ***** 1/4*

2005

1. Triple H vs Batista VEN : ***** 3/4*
2. Triple H vs Batista vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho NYR : ***** 3/4*
3. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho vs Kane vs Shelton Benjamin vs Christian WM : ***** 1/2* 
4. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio SD : ***** 1/2*
5. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle WM : ***** 1/2*
6. Triple H vs Ric Flair SS : ***** 1/4*
7. Randy Orton vs The Undertaker WM : ***** 1/4*
8. Triple H vs Ric Flair TT : ***** 1/4*
9. Randy Orton vs The Undertaker ARM : ***** 1/4*
10. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio JD : ***** 1/4*

2006

1. The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle NWO : *******
2. Chris Benoit vs William Regal NM : ***** 1/2*
3. The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle SD : ***** 1/4*
4. Chris Benoit vs Finlay JD : ***** 1/4*
5. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio SD : ***** 1/4*
6. John Cena vs Edge UNF : ***** 1/4*
7. John Cena vs Triple H vs Edge BL : ******
8. Edge vs Ric Flair RAW : ******
9. Triple H vs John Cena WM : ******
10. Edge vs Mick Foley WM : ******

2007

1. John Cena vs Umaga RR : ***** 1/2*
2. Batista vs The Undertaker WM : ***** 1/2*
3. Batista vs The Undertaker CS : ***** 1/4*
4. DX vs Rated RKO NYR : ***** 1/4*
5. Randy Orton vs Triple H NM : ***** 1/4*
6. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels WM : ***** 1/4*
7. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels SS : ***** 1/4*
8. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels RAW : ***** 1/4*
9. John Cena/Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker/Batista NWO : ******
10. Batista vs The Undertaker BL : ******

2008

1. The Undertaker vs Edge WM : ***** 1/2*
2. The Undertaker vs Edge SS : ***** 1/2*
3. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho UNF : ***** 1/4*
4. Triple H vs Jeff Hardy NM : ***** 1/4*
5. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho UNF : ***** 1/4*
6. MITB IV : ***** 1/4*
7. Triple H vs John Cena NOC : ******
8. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair WM : ******
9. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho JD : ******
10. John Cena vs Batista SS 08 : ******

2009

1. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM : *******
2. Rey Mysterio vs Chris Jericho BASH : ***** 1/2*
3. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy SD : ***** 1/4*
4. Rey Mysterio vs John Morrison SD : ***** 1/4*
5. John Cena vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels SS : ******
6. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy SS : ******
7. John Cena vs Triple H RAW : ******
8. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels RAW : ******
9. Jack Swagger vs Christian ECW : ******
10. John Cena vs Edge BL : ******

2010

1. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM : *******
2. Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler BR : ***** 1/4*
3. John Morrison vs Sheamus TLC : ***** 1/4*
4. Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk OTL : ******
5. Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk ER : ******
6. John Cena vs Batista ER : ******
7. John Cena vs Batista WM : ******
8. Edge vs Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane TLC : ******
9. Team Nexus vs Team WWE SS : ******
10. John Morrison vs Sheamus SS : ******. 

2011

1. John Cena vs CM Punk MITB : *******
2. Triple H vs The Undertaker WM : ***** 3/4*
3. John Cena vs CM Punk SS : ***** 1/2*
4. Randy Orton vs Christian OTL : ***** 1/4*
5. Randy Orton vs Christian SS : ***** 1/4*
6. John Cena vs CM Punk RAW : ******
7. Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry SD : ******
8. CM Punk vs Triple H NOC : ******
9. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio SS : ******
10. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs The Miz TLC : ******

2012

1. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ER : *******
2. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan OTL : ***** 3/4*
3. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar SS : ***** 1/2*
4. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho WM : ***** 1/2*
5. Triple H vs The Undertaker WM : ***** 1/2*
6. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ER : ***** 1/2*
7. John Cena vs CM Punk NOC : ***** 1/4*
8. Big Show vs Sheamus HIAC : ******
9. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan MITB : ******
10. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ER : ******

TOP 15 OVERALL

1. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM XXV
2. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM XXVI
3. Triple H vs Cactus Jack RR 00
4. John Cena vs CM Punk MITB 11
5. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit WM XX
6. Triple H vs Chris Jericho FL 00
7. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ER 12 
8. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels SS 02
9. The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle NWO 06

***** Cutoff

10. Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar NWO 04
11. Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit SD 01
12. Steve Austin/Triple H vs Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho RAW 01
13. Triple H vs The Undertaker WM XXVII
14. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit RR 03
15. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan OTL 12

Most Appearances in Top 10s ;

Triple H : 31
Chris Benoit : 22
Shawn Michaels : 21
John Cena : 21
The Undertaker : 20
Chris Jericho : 17
CM Punk : 16
Kurt Angle : 16
Edge : 14
Brock Lesnar : 12
Randy Orton : 11

TRIPS MARK FTW :hhh :hhh :hhh :hhh 

Honestly, the reason I think he has more top 10 matches than anybody else during this time period is that he was basically the only one around the ENTIRE 12 years. Taker took a ton of time off and his 2000 wasn't that great, Benoit would have been number one by now if... You know...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cacti Roasting On An Open Fire said:


> Made a thread about this but I think I'll get better responses here.
> 
> What are the best NWA/WCW PPVs? Simple question really. Never really looked into NWA/WCW too much and I wondered what are some good PPVs to see. I'm not into shows that just have a strong historical importance and more about shows just being highly enjoyable.


92-94 is a goldmine.


Beach Blast 92 (Best PPV ever?)
SuperBrawl 92
SuperBrawl 93
Spring Stampede 94 (Best PPV ever?)
Slamboree 94
GAB 92
Fall Brawl 94
WrestleWar 92

Well, 92, 94 and SuperBrawl 93 is a goldmine.

edit- I'll probably do a shitty version of a top 5 for each year later today when I can be arsed.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*RAW: The Best of 2009 - Disc One

*John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - **** 1/4
_January 12_

*Intercontinental Championship - No DQ
*William Regal (c) vs. CM Punk - *** 1/4
_January 19_

Santino Marella vs. Mickie James - DUD
_March 23_

*Wrestlemania All Star 10-Man Tag*
CM Punk, John Cena, Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, & Ricky Steamboat vs. Chris Jericho, Big Show, Kane, Edge, & Matt Hardy - *** 1/4
_April 6_

John Cena vs. Chris Jericho - ** 3/4
_April 20_

Randy Orton vs. MVP - ** 1/2
_April 27_


*Overall Disc Score: 7.25/10
*
- Well this DEFINITELY started off strong with Cena/Michaels. Incredible match that you already know my feelings on. The first segment of the set was 'The Birth of Legacy.' Nothing special as far as moments go but a historic one for sure. Punk/Regal was awesome. Instead of using the stipulation to get weapons, they just refused to obey rope breaks for submissions. Very unique match with a badass finish. January gets a big (Y) for all of this.

- The only thing we saw from February was Orton's attacks on Shane & Stephanie. That was hilarious because of Orton's reactions afterwards. He looks like a little kid who knew he was gonna get in so much trouble for it. Shame that this feud was so personal and they dropped the ball in the Mania main event.

- March was obviously a bunch of segments involving HBK & Taker. The in ring face to face was intense but the graveyard piece with Shawn was weird. Santino/Mickie was a waste of space.

- They gave us a bunch of shit from April. The 10 man tag was a lot of fun, especially anything involving Steamboat. It was really weird to see Punk teaming with basically all his major rivals in the future though. Cena/Jericho was in the UK and was advertised as Jericho's last RAW match since he was drafted over to SD. They gave them a lot of time and meaning but the spots and nearfalls were really predictable because they took too long to set them all up. Finish kinda ruined things too, but it's not a bad watch. Orton/MVP were having a pretty solid TV match, but it was just included to show Shane get his revenge. Can't complain too much on that.

- May was on here too but it was nothing but Santino making fun of Vickie & the Denver Debacle thing they did with the Nuggets GM or owner, idr. 

- Random question. They showed highlights of a match in April between Orton & Trips where trash cans and steel steps were used. Looked like Orton had a black eye and he won with an RKO. Anyone remember this, was it any good/what was it?​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

_Obviously can't remember all of the TV matches but I'll try my very best. I'm gonna make it a new year's resolution to keep all matches and my ratings logged for all of the matches that I watch._

*2000*
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble - Street Fight - *****
Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded - Last Man Standing - ****3/4
The Rock vs. Chris Benoit - Fully Loaded - ****1/4
The Hardy Boys vs. The Dudley Boys vs. Edge and Christian - Summerslam - TLC - ****
Triple H vs. Chris Benoit - No Mercy - ****

*2001*
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock - Wrestlemania 17 - No DQ - ****3/4
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam - ****3/4
Two Man Power Trip vs. Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho - Raw - ****1/2
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle - Unforgiven - ****1/2
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit - Smackdown - ****1/4

*2002*
Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker - No Mercy - Hell In A Cell - ****3/4
Edge and Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit - Smackdown - 2/3 Falls - **** 1/2
The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle - Vengeance - **** 1/2
Elimination Chamber Match - Survivor Series - **** 1/2
Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker - Unforgiven - **** 1/4

*2003*
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble - *****
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam - *****
Brock Lesnar vs. Chris Benoit - Smackdown **** 1/2
Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show - Judgement Day - Stretcher Match - **** 1/2
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - Raw - **** 1/4

*2004*
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania - *****
Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL - Judgement Day - **** 3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Backlash **** 1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar - No Way Out - **** 1/2
Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack - Backlash - Street Fight - **** 1/4

*2005*
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown - *****
Batista vs. Triple H - Vengeance - Hell In A Cell - *****
Chris Benoit vs. William Regal - Velocity - **** 1/2
Edge vs. Matt Hardy - Unforgiven - Steel Cage - **** 1/4
Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown - Survivor Series - ****

*2006*
Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker - No Way Out - **** 3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Finlay - Judgement Day - **** 1/2
Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton - Smackdown - **** 1/2
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - Smackdown (the first of the year, I believe) - ****1/4
Edge vs. John Cena - Unforgiven - TLC - **** 1/4

Skipping 07-10 seeing as I didn't watch a lot during that time period, need to catch up with it really...

*2011*
CM Punk vs. John Cena - Money In The Bank - *****
CM Punk vs. John Cena - Summerslam - **** 1/2
Randy Orton vs. Christian - Over The Limit - **** 1/2
Randy Orton vs. Christian - Money In The Bank - **** 1/4
Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania - **** 

*2012*
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit - *****
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules - Extreme Rules - **** 3/4
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - Extreme Rules - 2/3 Falls - **** 1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - Extreme Rules - Chicago Street Fight - **** 1/2
Sheamus vs. Big Show - Hell In A Cell - ****


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> edit- I'll probably do a shitty version of a top 5 for each year later today when I can be arsed.


I look forward to reading it in the New Year 8*D

*Christian vs Drew Mcintyre **(5/31)* 

I thought it was comfortably below their 2010 encounters and in that respect I was a tad disappointed, but it was still good. Didn't like the early beginning of the match as it seemed a little disjointed and meandering, but everything after the transition spot was what we expect from both. Mcintyre was awesome controlling Christian and having a counter for everything Christian tried to regain momentum and Christian was great piecing together a comeback and in the finishing stretch. That being said, I found Drew's arm work from the 2010 series more engaging, and Christian was far better in the 2010 encounters as well selling wise. I also really hated the setup to Christian's comeback, where Drew caught a boot coming off the top rope. That's always stuck out as the most blatantly lazy transition spot to me and I was disappointed someone as good as Christian at building a comeback didn't come up with something more original/creative.

The spot where Christian goes to spring off the turnbuckle only to catch a punt to the ribs from Mcintyre was probably the spot of the match to me. It was timed so well in the context of the match that it came off as Mcintyre being on his game and having Christian scouted. Which again makes it disappointing that we didn't get as good a payoff with Christian finding a way to outsmart Mcintyre.

Quick attempt at a top 5 2000-2012 (gonna be brief on a couple of years because I can't remember much about the year)

*2000*
HHH vs Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded Last Man Standing
HHH vs Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble Street Fight
HHH vs The Rock - Backlash
HHH vs The Rock - Judgement Day
HHH & The Radicalz vs The Rock, Cactus Jack & Too Cool - Raw Dallas

*2001*
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Summerslam
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown Edmonton
Austin & HHH vs Benoit & Jericho - Raw
Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble Ladder Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit - Raw or TLC III - Smackdown

*2002*
Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker - No Mercy
Brock Lesnar vs The Rock - Summerslam
The Rock vs Hulk Hogan - Wrestlemania
Rey Mysterio vs Kurt Angle - Summerslam

(I remember feck all about 2002. Didn't care for HHH/HBK, EC, Rey/Edge vs Benoit/Angle)

*2003*
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs World's Greatest Tag Team - Smackdown (5/22)
Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - Smackdown
Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown
HHH vs Shawn Michaels - Raw San Antonio
Rey Mysterio vs Tajiri - Smackdown or Brock Lesnar vs Big Show - Judgement Day Stretcher Match

*2004*
Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - Judgement Day
Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero - Great American Bash
Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge vs Randy Orton, Ric Flair & Batista - Raw 6 Man Elimination Tag (6/14)
Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton - Summerslam
Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack - Backlash or Eddie Guerrero vs Big Show - Smackdown (4/15) (one of my favourite matches in company history)

*2005*
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown (6/23)
Batista vs HHH - Vengeance HIAC
Chris Benoit vs William Regal - Velocity (7/15)
Edge vs Matt Hardy - Unforgiven Steel Cage 
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Great American Bash

*2006*
Chris Benoit vs Finlay - Judgement Day
Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 4/7
Chris Benoit vs William Regal - No Mercy
Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - No Way Out
Chris Benoit vs Finlay - Smackdown 5/5

*2007*
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania
John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble Last Man Standing
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Raw London
Matt Hardy vs Finlay - Smackdown 6/22
John Cena vs Randy Orton - Summerslam or John Cena & HBK vs Undertaker & Batista - No Way Out

*2008*
HHH vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Armageddon
CM Punk vs William Regal - Madison Square Garden House Show
John Cena vs Randy Orton - No Way Out

(again 2008 is a blankspot. Don't think much of Jericho/Michaels and really any other match would just be added on for the sake of adding it on. Last watch I liked Cena/HHH NOC but I won't add it just to make a top 5, especially as I'm thinking I've forgotten a match I'd have over it).

*2009*
Christian vs Jack Swagger - ECW 2/24
CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy - Smackdown Loser Leaves Town Cage Match
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Raw
Christian vs William Regal - 8/25?

*2010*
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 2/12
Christian vs Drew Mcintyre - Smackdown July
Daniel Bryan vs Miz - Night of Champions
Sheamus vs John Morrison - TLC 

(special mention to Rey Mysterio vs Jack Swagger from Smackdown in June. Was #5 until I was reminded of Sheamus/Morrison and how I impressed I was at how good a singles ladder match was without being relient on a huge number of choreographed spots).

*2011*
John Cena vs CM Punk - Money In The Bank
Christian vs Randy Orton - Over The Limit
John Cena vs Rey Mysterio - Raw
Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown Live Steel Cage
Chris Masters vs Drew Mcintyre - Superstars May

*2012*
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Extreme Rules
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Over The Limit
CM Punk vs Mark Henry - Raw 4/2
Dean Ambrose vs William Regal - FCW 7/15


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 each year (since 2000):

2000:
1) Cactus Jack vs. HHH RR (*****)
2) Rock vs. HHH BL (****1/2)
3) Jericho vs. HHH FL (****1/2)
4) Rock vs. HHH JD (****1/4)
5) Rock vs. Benoit FL (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: HHH (4)
-PPV with most appearances: Fully Loaded
-Total STARZ: 22.5

2001:
1) Austin vs. Rock WM17 (*****)
2) Austin vs. Angle SS (****3/4)
3) Jericho vs. Benoit RR (****3/4)
4) Rock vs. Jericho NM (****1/2)
5) Undertaker vs. Austin JD (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: Austin (3)
-PPV with most appearances: N/A (Best match is on WM13)
-Total STARZ: 23.25
(Note: I haven't seen the "critically acclaimed" Austin/Benoit SD match on most people's lists yet from 2001)

2002:
1) Undertaker vs. Lesnar NM (****3/4)
2) Undertaker vs. Rock vs. Angle Vengeance (****1/2)
3) Edge/Rey vs. Angle/Benoit NM (****1/2)
4) HBK vs. HHH SS 2002 (****1/2)
5) HBK vs. HHH vs. RVD vs. Kane vs. Booker T vs. Jericho SVS (****1/2)

-Most appearances on top 5: TIED (2)- Undertaker, Angle, HBK and HHH
-PPV with most appearances: No Mercy
-Total STARZ: 22.75

2003:
1) Angle vs. Benoit RR (*****)
2) Angle vs. Lesnar SD Ironman (****3/4)
3) Undertaker vs. Angle SD (****3/4)
4) Jericho vs. HBK WM19 (****3/4)
5) Angle vs. Lesnar SS (****1/2)

-Most appearances on top 5: Kurt Angle (4)
-PPV with most appearances: N/A (Smackdown matches made most of top 5)
-Total STARZ: 23.75

2004:
1) Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL JD (****1/2)
2) Eddie Guerrero vs. Lesnar NWO (****1/2)
3) HBK vs. Benoit vs. HHH WM20 (****1/2)
4) Orton vs. Foley BL (****1/4)
5) Orton vs. Benoit SS (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: TIED (2)- Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Randy Orton
-PPV with most appearances: N/A
-Total STARZ: 22

2005:
1) HBK vs. Kurt Angle WM21 (****1/2)
2) Batista vs. HHH Vengeance (****1/2)
3) HBK vs. Benjamin Raw Gold Rush (****1/2)
4) Undertaker vs. Orton WM21 (****1/4)
5) Undertaker vs. Orton Armageddon (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: TIED (2)- Undertaker, Randy Orton, HBK
-PPV with most appearances: WM21
-Total STARZ: 22

2006:
1) Undertaker vs. Angle NWO (*****)
2) Undertaker vs. Angle SD (****1/4)
3) Edge vs. RVD Vengeance (****1/4)
4) Edge vs. Foley WM22 (****1/4)
5) Edge vs. Cena Unforgiven (****)

-Most appearances on top 5: Edge (3)
-PPV with most appearances: N/A
-Total STARZ: 21.75
(Note: I haven't seen Benoit/Finlay JD)

2007:
1) Undertaker vs. Batista WM23 (****1/2)
2) Cena vs. Umaga RR (****1/2)
3) Cena vs. HBK Raw in London (****1/2)
4) Undertaker vs. Batista CS (****1/2)
5) Undertaker vs. Batista SVS (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: TIED (3)- Undertaker, Batista, John Cena
-PPV with most appearances: N/A
-Total STARZ: 22.25

2008:
1) Undertaker vs. Edge SS (****3/4)
2) HBK vs. Jericho NM (****1/2)
3) Undertaker vs. Edge WM24 (****1/4)
4) HBK vs. Jericho JD (****1/4)
5) Jeff Hardy vs. HHH NM (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: TIED (2)- Undertaker, Edge, HBK, and Jericho
-PPV with most appearances: No Mercy
-Total STARZ: 22

2009:
1) Undertaker vs. HBK WM25 (*****)
2) Jericho vs. Mysterio The Bash (****1/2)
3) Punk vs. Jeff Hardy SS (****1/2)
4) Mysterio vs. Morrison SD (****1/2)
5) Edge vs. Cena BL (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: N/A
-PPV with most appearances: N/A
-Total STARZ: 22.75

2010:
1) Undertaker vs. HBK WM26 (****3/4)
2) Bryan vs. Ziggler BR (****1/4)
3) Punk vs. Mysterio OTL (****)
4) Sheamus vs. Morrison ER (****)
5) Undertaker vs. Punk SD (****)

-Most appearances on top 5: TIED (2)- Undertaker, CM Punk
-PPV with most appearances: N/A
-Total STARZ: 21

2011:
1) CM Punk vs. Cena MITB (****1/2)
2) Christian vs. Orton OTL (****1/2)
3) Christian vs. Orton SS (****1/4)
4) CM Punk vs. Cena SS (****1/4)
5) CM Punk vs. Ziggler Raw November (****1/4)

-Most appearances on top 5: CM Punk (3)
-PPV with most appearances: Summerslam
-Total STARZ: 21.75

2012:
1) Punk vs. Bryan OTL (*****)
2) Punk vs. Jericho WM28 (****1/2)
3) Bryan vs. Sheamus ER (****)
4) Punk vs. Henry Raw 4/2/12 (****)
5) Punk vs. Cena NOC (****)

-Most appearances on top 5: CM Punk (4)
-PPV with most appearances: N/A
-Total STARZ: 21.5


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

JoeRulz said:


> Do you still have Angle/Lesnar from SummerSlam at *****? Please say no.


This match just really pissed me off. How the heck does Lesnar grab the fucking rope yet the ref doesn't let Angle break? All he did was pull him back to the centre. What the fuck? Seriously?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thoughts/ratings for the following shows please:

Backlash 2008
Cyber Sunday 2008
Vengeance 2011
Survivor Series 2011


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> I look forward to reading it in the New Year 8*D


I tried earlier. Too hard to decide and I kept forgetting stuff. Fuggit. 

Agreed on Christian/McIntyre 5/31/12. It's fine but I was disappointed. It doesn't come within the same galaxy of their 2010 matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I want to do a list but I'm too lazy to come up with one now lol. Possibly tomorrow if I get some time to scramble something together, then I'll save it so I can just paste it in here when the topic eventually comes up again lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, so many great matches I forgot in my lists such as:

Stone Cold vs Triple H - No Way Out 01 (****1/2)
Randy Orton vs Triple H - No Mercy 07 (****1/2)
Shawn Michaels vs Triple H - SummerSlam 02 (****1/2)
Shawn Michaels vs John Cena - Raw 07 (****1/4)
Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 01 (****1/2)

With them included, HHH can nearly beat Benoit in # of matches. I have 12 of Benoit and 7 of HHH already.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I understand people's criticism of the guy but HHH has way too many top level matches to be considered anything less than good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I was just looking through everyone's lists and thought the same thing. In Caida's 2000 top 5 he's in all of them. THE GAME.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I've always had the opinion that Triple H in the year 2000 was one of the best years an individual wrestler has ever had. Quality matches, top-notch heel promos, and he was a "real" heel in a time period where the cool and funny heel was in. He deserves a ton of credit for that. And quite frankly, during these years when HBK was away from wrestling, Triple H (along with Jericho) became my favorite active wrestler. He was the shit in 2000. His heel character was so fresh during that year. Even his theme music at the time kicked ass (the "My Time" one, I'm referring to) and made his entrance one of the best, if not the best, during that time period.

Actually, since 2000, I'd be hard-pressed to find anyother guy who was in more great matches other than HBK. I think alot of the Undertaker's matches (especially during his "American Badass" days are alittle overrated by some. At the same token, there are also plenty out there who also think he's a bit overrated as a worker).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ownage™;12345468 said:


> I understand people's criticism of the guy but HHH has way too many top level matches to be considered anything less than good.


IDK if people don't actually like those matches then it's understandable. There's a lot of top-level HHH matches I don't actually think are top-level or really that good at all. I'm someone who thinks he's 'good', FWIW. I guess. I mean I DO think he's good, but it depends on the year and time. Good in 2000 and 2001, borderline worst wrestler in the world not good in 2002 or 2003. Not too good for most of 2004, but good in the latter parts. Good in 2005 and early 2006, not too good in DX 2006, etc. etc. He's really back and forth in quality. No Mercy 08 he has a really good match with Jeff Hardy. Next PPV another goody with Jeff at Cyber Sunday. Next PPV at Survivor Series he has the stinker WMOTYC with Kozlov.

And I like HHH a lot more than some people who have multiple ****1/2+ matches from him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ownage™ said:


> I understand people's criticism of the guy but HHH has way too many top level matches to be considered anything less than good.


I'm not his biggest mark or anything but he IS that damn good!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Triple H - 9
The Undertaker - 18
The Rock - 4
Kurt Angle - 8
Brock Lesnar - 6
Steve Austin - 4
Edge - 9
Rey Mysterio - 2
Christian - 11
John Cena - 5
CM Punk - 6
Chris Benoit - 11
Chris Jericho - 9
Shawn Michaels - 5

Some numbers from my top 5 lists. Undertaker is the MAN .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

^^Christian having tied second = :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK if people don't actually like those matches then it's understandable. There's a lot of top-level HHH matches I don't actually think are top-level or really that good at all. I'm someone who thinks he's 'good', FWIW. I guess. I mean I DO think he's good, but it depends on the year and time. Good in 2000 and 2001, borderline worst wrestler in the world not good in 2002 or 2003. Not too good for most of 2004, but good in the latter parts. Good in 2005 and early 2006, not too good in DX 2006, etc. etc. He's really back and forth in quality. No Mercy 08 he has a really good match with Jeff Hardy. Next PPV another goody with Jeff at Cyber Sunday. Next PPV at Survivor Series he has the stinker WMOTYC with Kozlov.
> 
> And I like HHH a lot more than some people who have multiple ****1/2+ matches from him.


Yeah obviously but I made the point because I'm seeing posters who I know don't like or rate HHH mention him multiple times in their best matches lists.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The power of the GAME can't be ignored lol. I reckon that if I do get around to making a list, Trips, Taker, HBK and Cena will feature very prominently with Brock, Austin, Angle, Eddie, Benoit coming in next. The thing the first bunch have in their favour is obviously longevity with all of them bar Cena having catalogues that span the entire decade while the latter bunch only cover certain years. Cena has from around 07 on lockdown lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Yeah1993* covered it. I mean I think Foley is by far the better guy in the Rumble encounter and really lays out a match that gets HHH over as a massive star, but that match and the 10 man tag are the only two in my top 5 for 2000 where I don't think he's the better guy. He was definitely on in the January-July timeframe (because I think his August-December is pretty average-poor with no PPV match jumping out to me as good). He's marginally better than Jericho in the LMS match, but that's mainly because as the heel he's called on to make the bulk of the match interesting and engaging workover wise, and therefore a lot of the success in the match stems from his offence and Jericho's selling. I think he's better than Rock in both PPV matches, though both men work their socks off in the Ironman but a lot of HHH's tactics come off as good heel work and I definitely think his star shines brighter in that match.

He is far too inconsistent though. There's only 3 years where I'd call him above good: 2000, 2005 and 2008. He has moments in other years (2004 and off memory some parts of 2006) but for the most part he's definitely more hit than miss in those years. 2005 he's the ultimate prick heel and really works well to make Batista into the star that he is. I do think the Flair matches at the end of the year owe more to their greatness because of Flair's amazing performances as the psycho resilient veteran, but its not like HHH isn't adding to the match. Its just that I think his style compliments a performance like Flair's far better than if he was having the same match with a lesser talent, though you could argue that criticism applies to a lot of workers in their best years/matches.

2008 is perhaps the year he impresses me most, especially because outside of a handful of matches I've never thought he was close to a good babyface worker. He's in that Orton mould where there's just something off putting about him which makes it impossible for me to get invested in his matches. That being said his series with Hardy was especially impressive considering Hardy never stood out to me as someone who could belong in main event title matches that didn't involve a gimmick match or him being mangled by an Umaga/powerhouse wrestler. HHH worked really well as the company ace veteran and he and Hardy had a really good character dynamic in their series which complimented Hardy's great booking to slowly make him the next main event babyface.

I'd still be hard pressed to call HHH anything above good though when it comes to ring-work alone. In the right environment and against the right opponent he can excel and he has a presence that I can appreciate as belonging in the main event, but a lot of his matches generally do not interest me. His offence is pretty boring especially as a face, I don't get invested in a lot of his babyface matches where he's selling and building a story and truthfully I don't find him especially good as a heel worker unless he's being an ABSOLUTE PRICK in his matches. What I mean by that is I don't generally find a match where he's working heel and generally just working over a guy terribly interesting, but when he's stalling, abusing or interacting with a crowd and really being a huge prick (e.g the Eugene Summerslam match) I'm more interested.

TL;DR - Whilst HHH dominates my 2000, I still can't really call him anything above good as a worker. His style whilst trying to resemble that of the classic NWA formula just doesn't pull me into his matches and I don't find he does a lot of terribly interesting things to build a match, although I can understand why a lot of people think he should be praised more. I'll also say I really can't stand him in big storyline matches as I find he really feels forced in these 'PERSONAL' matches. Take the Lesnar match for example. Just the way they tried to sell that match as some impending massacre and HHH delivering dialogue such as 'This ain't UFC' just came off as terribly forced and laughable to me instead of how it was meant to come off. Maybe that's because my apathy towards him generally means I'll sour over what he does compared to someone I adore, like an Eddie or Regal but ehh, he's not my cup of tea.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^^^ Posts like that I appreciate fully no matter who they're about. Rational and well presented reasons why you really just don't like something or someone. Much better than the usual:

:hhh - HURR DURR HE FUKS STEPH N BURRIES EVERYBADY DURR

:cena2 - HURR DURR HE CNT WRASSLE 5 MOVES OF DA DOOM

Etc lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> *Yeah1993* covered it. I mean I think Foley is by far the better guy in the Rumble encounter and really lays out a match that gets HHH over as a massive star, but that match and the 10 man tag are the only two in my top 5 for 2000 where I don't think he's the better guy. He was definitely on in the January-July timeframe (because I think his August-December is pretty average-poor with no PPV match jumping out to me as good). He's marginally better than Jericho in the LMS match, but that's mainly because as the heel he's called on to make the bulk of the match interesting and engaging workover wise, and therefore a lot of the success in the match stems from his offence and Jericho's selling. I think he's better than Rock in both PPV matches, though both men work their socks off in the Ironman but a lot of HHH's tactics come off as good heel work and I definitely think his star shines brighter in that match.


I'd go farther and say April-July is really his 'this guy's ON' period. When comparing Christian's 09 to HHH's 00 about two weeks ago I said this:



> I'd say it's definitely better than HHH's 2000. Helmsley only really had a hot April-July. Other than the Benoit match at No Mercy what good he do after that? Pre-April he's *involved* in some really good shit but it isn't thanks to him. He wasn't putting in Christian-level performances at the Rumble, NWO or in the Raw 5-on-5.


The Rumble match is outstanding, but it's like 85% Mick Foley. HHH was good and I don't think it's a case where you could replace him with any average wrestler, but that match was The Mick Foley Show. NWO I don't like a huge bunch to begin with nor do I think it's a top-level match. But it's a good match and Foley was still the guy in it. The 2/7 ten man tag is ten guys putting in a good collective effort but HHH didn't stand out or anything. GRANDMASTER SEXAY was probably the best guy in the match, legit. Has HHH got any TV stuff from Jan-March to check out? There's a Raw match with Kane I liked a lot where HHH bumped around for him, but IDK if that was pre-April. April-July he's got a lot of stuff and a lot matches where looks at his best. v the Rock @ BL & JD, w/Benoit v Rock/Jericho, v Jericho @ FL, v Angle v Rock on Raw which smokes their shitty PPV match, v TAKA Michinoku, etc. Post-July he's only got the Benoit match which I thought he looked really good in. Other than that the SummerSlam, Survivor Series and Armageddon matches which all kinda suck. I like HHH, and his 2000, but I don't think he or his year belongs in the Best Of anything. Plus he shagged Steph to get where he is and buried folks who he was afraid of so HE TEH SUX. :hhh

Why the fuck is HHH brought up bi-weekly in this thread and why the fuck is it so fun to talk about him? Let's talk about fucking DDP again. He had a fun match with Yuji Nagata on an episode of Saturday Night or WorldWide or something. His '98 > HHH's '00.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Anyone have stars for the Ultimate Ric Flair Collection 3 Disc?

Pretty sure it's

Ric Flair vs. ... (shown in their entirety)

1. Harley Race Starrcade (11/24/83)

2. Dusty Rhodes Starrcade (11/28/85)

3. Barry Windham World Wide Wrestling (01/20/87)

4. Ricky Steamboat Clash of the Champions VI (04/02/89)

5. Ricky Steamboat WrestleWar (05/07/89)

6. Terry Funk I Quit Match Clash of the Champions IX (11/15/89)

7. Royal Rumble (01/19/92)

8. Sting Undisputed World Title Unification Clash of the Champions XXVII (06/23/94)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH is a bi-weekly discussion in here for some reason. I don't know why. The reason I'd have 00 Hunter > 09 Christian is because I can't remember a single thing Christian did in 09 lol. It goes further than just ring performances for me. When I and I presume others too, talk about Triple H in 00, it's about everything he did that year and not just his ring work. As a whole package deal, there's not many things for me that can touch it tbh. And I'm honest to God struggling to remember anything Christian did in 09, at all, bar the Swagger match because it was mentioned in here recently. I'm not going to say that every match HHH had in 00 was a classic. Towards the end of the year he did begin to drop off in quality a bit, in the ring. But he still, along with the other top guys at the time, provided the most fun I've ever had watching wrestling as a fan and made it truly memorable for reasons other than just his matches. Christian on the other hand? Not so much.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only thing to come to mind for me with Christian 09 is.... "it's christian", lol. And that's not meant as disrespect to him in any way.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I can't remember anything other than the fact that he was on ECW, I think he was champion and that God awful silver belt looked fucking huge on him. That's about it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Anyone have stars for the Ultimate Ric Flair Collection 3 Disc?
> 
> Pretty sure it's
> 
> ...


1. *** 1/2ish. Really slow, old school stuff. Haven't seen it in years.
2. ?
3. **** 1/2
4. *****
5. *****
6. **** 1/4 I believe. Again, been years.
7. **** - **** 1/4
8. *** 3/4

You should be buying it right now if you don't already own it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've watched almost every single Christian 2009 match I could find and literally every one of them has been good. MOTYC-level stuff with Swagger and Regal. Had arguably the career matches of wrestlers like DH Smith, Tyson Kidd, Yoshi Tatsu, Paul Burchill and Zack Ryder (and multiple matches with some of these guys) Had the best series of Tommy Dreamer's career (probably, IDR anything better). Best or second best guy in good tag matches (Christian/Zeke v Regal/Koslov, Christian/Finlay v Henry/Swagger, both matches with Dreamer as Christian's partner). Good small matches with Finlay, Kozlov, Henry. Best wrestler in the elimination four-way thingy that was to crown a #1 Contender. I see why people think HHH's 2000 is better (especially if you count non-match stuff in which case Christian was kinda bleh other than when he did that mini-rap at Survivor Series), but man I fucking adore 2009 Christian. There's a ton of stuff I haven't even mentioned. I wonder what he would have been like had he been working babyface in 01-05 WWE.



Spoiler:  LOOK AT IT. LOOK AT IT. I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT IT.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> 1. *** 1/2ish. Really slow, old school stuff. Haven't seen it in years.
> 2. ?
> 3. **** 1/2
> 4. *****
> ...


Bought used from Gohastings for $2.50 a few days ago (Y) should be on it's way.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MY EYES!!! THEY'RE BURNING!! MY EYEEEESSSSS!!!!!!!!

For me personally, I need some sort of emotional investment in a character and/or storyline in order for me to give a fuck about most things. The fact that I can't even remember anything he did that year says it all really.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Bought used from Gohastings for $2.50 a few days ago (Y) should be on it's way.


Oh fuck, GoHastings. Every used dvd I've ever got from them has been worn to death. The case, of course. Makes sense as to why they're so cheap.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only non-PPV Triple H matches from 2000 I remember are vs Taka Michinoku and vs Tazz. 

I remember everything Christian did in 2009.

Take a guess at which I prefer.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

You can put me down for Triple H in 2000. Dude was unstoppable that year and worked as a heel. Was easily the most hated man in the business that year. He commanded heat, and he got it that year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, forgot mention the obvious Triple H TV match from 2000 - vs Chris Jericho when Jericho "won" the WWF Championship. Yeah. That's a moment worth praising. Nothing to do with Triple H though. Only b/c I'm so big on Jericho. 

THAT POP when he wins. :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, that Raw match was good. Their Fully Loaded 2000 match was amazing. Can't believe that match *still* hasn't been released on DVD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm the biggest HHH mark in Canada probably , and I'll stop at nothing to bring up how many AWESOME matches Trips has had over the years (just the fact that I feel he's been the BITW since 2000 kind of backs up that whole MARK claim  ) , but I still don't think 2000 HHH is the greatest year for a WWE performer ever. That distinction would go to Austin in 2001 , Who never went below **** 1/2* on PPV that year and had numerous top 100 matches of all time such as the Benoit matches, the Angle matches, the 2MPT tags , vs Rock , etc. 

Personally, I'd put Foley/HHH and Jericho/HHH over anything Austin has done post Bret , but that doesn't stop my opinion that Austin in 2001 was complete GOD mode. Fuck, I'm not even a big Angle fan but I'll come out and say that that motherfucker completely OWNED 2003 alongside Brock.

*Top Five Individual Years in WWF/WWE History* 

1. 2001 Steve Austin
2. 2000 Triple H
3. 1997 Bret Hart
4. 2004 Chris Benoit
5. 2003 Kurt Angle/Brock Lesnar
HM's. 2012 Punk, 2004 Guerrero, 2007 Cena, 1996 Shawn, 1997 Shawn , etc....

Another Trips related note. I personally think the guy went through two "in-ring primes" to be honest, his first obviously being the 00-01 pre-quad tear Trips. His second prime I feel started on that December night in 2003 when he took on Shawn (the match that made him care again IMO) and ended when DX reformed in 2006. In that period I believe that he was a top 3 worker the entire time, sometimes behind Benoit, sometimes behind Benoit and Guerrero, sometimes the best in the world. 

My PPV ratings for that EPIC TRIPS RUN PT.2

RR 04 vs HBK : **** 3/4*
WM XX vs HBK vs Benoit : *******
BL 04 vs HBK vs Benoit : *******
BB 04 vs HBK : ******
VEN 04 vs Benoit : **** 3/4*
SS 04 vs Eugene : **** 1/2*
UNF 04 vs Orton : *** 1/2*
TT 04 vs HBK : **** 3/4*
SS 04 Elimination Tag : ******
NYR 05 Chamber : ***** 3/4*
RR 05 vs Orton : **** 1/2*
WM XXI vs Batista : *****
BL 05 vs Batista : **** 3/4*
VEN 05 vs Batista : ***** 3/4*
TT 05 vs Flair : ***** 1/4*
SS 05 vs Flair : ***** 1/4*
NYR 06 vs Big Show : ******
WM XXII vs Cena : ******
BL 06 vs Cena vs Edge : ******

Other EPIC Trips matches during that time period ;

vs HBK Dec 03 : ***** 1/2*
vs Shelton Apr 04 : ******
w/Evolution vs Benoit/Foley/Shelton/HBK : ******
vs Benoit Mar 05 : ***** 1/4*
vs Benoit (Gold Rush) 05 : ******

Forgetting some of them, but oh well my point has probably been made by now. He had more classics in that time period than he's had since. He's fantastic as a part-time performer for sure and has a few classics left in him as evidenced by having two top 5 matches this year (despite wrestling two matches). He had alot of GREAT matches from 07-09 , but it seems as if he only produced a classic every now and then.

Trips' **** list post second prime and pre part-time work

NYR vs Rated RKO : ***** 1/4*
NM 07 vs Orton : ***** 1/4*
NOC 08 vs Cena : ******
SS 09 vs Legacy : ******
RAW 09 vs Cena : ******
SS 09 vs Cena vs HBK : ******

Triple H from 04-06 produced over twice the amount of classics that he did from mid 06-mid 2010. He's only wrestled in six matches since then, and here are the ratings ;

vs Taker WM XXVII : ***** 3/4*
vs Punk NOC 11 : ******
W/Punk vs Truth/Miz VEN 11 : **** 1/4*
vs Nash TLC 11 : **** 1/4*
vs Taker WM XXVIII : ***** 1/2*
vs Lesnar SS 12 : ***** 1/2*

Whenever he comes back, he delivers. There's my personal ratings that basically back up how I think Trips is awesome. Believe me... Or be buried.

DAT GAME :hhh :hhh :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed. I want to own it asap. 

The positive there is now whenever it will _(possibly for a potential 3 disc HHH set?)_ it won't have to be edited. That alone makes the wait ok.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Agreed. I want to own it asap.
> 
> The positive there is now whenever it will _(possibly for a potential 3 disc HHH set?)_ it won't have to be edited. That alone makes the wait ok.


Needs to be a 4 discer in my books. Too many Trips matches out there that aren't in my collection and need to be. WM XIX vs. Booker, LMS vs. Jericho, LMS vs. Orton (No Mercy), Rumble '01 vs. Angle, etc. Should be setup very similar to Austin's last release, just with more matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

A Trips 4 disc featuring one disc of documentary + promos and three discs of matches ?

OR

A Trips 4 disc , 12 hour long documentary where he goes over every individual feud throughout his career and how he used his political pull to bury them under his NOSE. He then proceeds to talk about banging Stephanie and essentially being the man who will RULE wrestling in the future.

"Gotta do what's right for business" : The Paul Levesque Story :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Needs to be a 4 discer in my books. Too many Trips matches out there that aren't in my collection and need to be. WM XIX vs. Booker, LMS vs. Jericho, LMS vs. Orton (No Mercy), Rumble '01 vs. Angle, etc. Should be setup very similar to Austin's last release, just with more matches.


As a guy who owns a crap-ton of modern WWE PPVs - I'd only support it if it was filled with older matches or gems from TV. More of those then 4 discs would suffice.

Nothing can top Bret Hart's set in terms of that quality. (as ALL were new to DVD pardon maybe one or two via a different set) This one can try. (Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Agreed w/#PHG about Trips being legitimately great in '04-'06. I'm assuming people who disagree don't like his matches with Michaels and Orton. Some of them are underwhelming but none of them are bad in my opinion. He looked great at the back end of '07 as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of Bret...

Bret Hart Unreleased Collectors Series :mark:

Seriously, this DVD could have multiple ****+ matches that very few people have ever seen. Probably the DVD match listing I'm looking forward to the most over the next while (until TRIPS gets a DVD of course  ) .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ownage™;12346331 said:


> Agreed w/#PHG about Trips being legitimately great in '04-'06. I'm assuming people who disagree don't like his matches with Michaels and Orton. Some of them are underwhelming but none of them are bad in my opinion. He looked great at the back end of '07 as well.


I'd go out on a limb and say Trips '05 was the best of the 3 from a singles standpoint. vs Batista HIAC & both matches vs Flair > the majority of his singles matches from the other years. He worked vs Benoit on RAW for Gold Rush tournament. If that got decent time I'm sure it was solid or better.

Only noteworthy singles match from 2004 I remember him having was the very first vs Shelton Benjamin. Oh and a fun match vs Yoshihiro Tajiri.

As for 2006: I'm in the minority where I liked BOTH tag matches vs McMahons. Not just the incredibly awesome Summerslam 2006 match.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Speaking of Bret...
> 
> Bret Hart Unreleased Collectors Series :mark
> 
> Seriously, this DVD could have multiple ****+ matches that very few people have ever seen. Probably the DVD match listing I'm looking forward to the most over the next while (until TRIPS gets a DVD of course  ) .


Is that really legit? I really liked Hogan's. So a Bret Hart one would be AWESOME.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah it's 100 percent legit. Bret is picking the whole thing himself and took suggestions from the fans on Twitter. Gonna be dropped in the first week of March I do believe, so preeeetttyyy fucking early. We should know the AWESOME match listing within two months. 

When you have one of the greatest ever and give him an Unreleased Collector's DVD it's gonna be pure sex , trust me . I really loved Hogan's , and his was 90 percent full of complete trash. That Mr. T Grocery Store segment is awesome :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I'd go out on a limb and say Trips '05 was the best of the 3 from a singles standpoint. vs Batista HIAC & both matches vs Flair > the majority of his singles matches from the other years. He worked vs Benoit on RAW for Gold Rush tournament. If that got decent time I'm sure it was solid or better.
> 
> Only noteworthy singles match from 2004 I remember him having was the very first vs Shelton Benjamin. Oh and a fun match vs Yoshihiro Tajiri.
> 
> As for 2006: I'm in the minority where I liked BOTH tag matches vs McMahons. Not just the incredibly awesome Summerslam 2006 match.


I remember two TV matches v Benoit in '05. Both are good, one is really really good with Benoit selling a concussion. Don't remember if it's Gold Rush or the other one.

There's also a good HHH/Benoit/Edge triple threat in '04.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only 2004 HHH match I remember without having to really think about it is HHH vs. Eugene, and it's mainly because I feel it's Hunter's career heel performance in a match (and it was a great match itself).

For HHH imo:

2000- Amazing
2001- Great
2002- Terrible
2003- Terrible
2004- Decent
2005- Good
2006- Decent (Very good first half and bad second half with DX)
2007- Meh
2008- Average
2009- Meh
2010- Meh
2011- Meh (Not a lot of substance to work with, but the Taker match on the low-side of great, the Punk match was good but nothing more, the tag match with Punk was forgettable and the match with Nash was terrible)
2012- M... e... h (again, not a lot to work with. Only two matches to go off of, and while the HIAC with Taker was awesome, the match with Lesnar was very underwhelming and while technically a good match, nothing I'd write home about).

The last "classic" (which I put as a match ****1/2+) HHH produced in my eyes was in 2005 with Batista in HIAC.

As far as years I'd put above his 2000 (in ring wise in no order): 2001 Austin, 2004 Benoit, 2005 HBK, 2007 and 2008 Undertaker, and maybe 2012 Punk... though it's only a maybe now due to the last few PPV matches being underwhelming and bringing his overall year wrestling-wise down. Maybe 2007 Cena as well... though I'm not as quick to jump on that.

And since Paulheymanguy posted a list of em, here's my ratings for those HHH matches in 04-06:

RR 04 vs HBK : ***1/4
WM XX vs HBK vs Benoit : ****1/2
BL 04 vs HBK vs Benoit : ****1/4
BB 04 vs HBK : ***
VEN 04 vs Benoit : ***1/2
SS 04 vs Eugene : ***3/4
UNF 04 vs Orton : **1/4
TT 04 vs HBK : ***1/4
SS 04 Elimination Tag : ***1/2
NYR 05 Chamber : ****1/4
RR 05 vs Orton : ***
WM XXI vs Batista : **
BL 05 vs Batista : **3/4
VEN 05 vs Batista : ****1/2
TT 05 vs Flair : ****
SS 05 vs Flair : ***1/2
NYR 06 vs Big Show : ***
WM XXII vs Cena : ***
BL 06 vs Cena vs Edge : ****

And the TV matches he posted that I remember:

vs HBK Dec 03 : ****1/4
vs Shelton Apr 04 : ***1/2
vs Benoit (Gold Rush) 05 : ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Yeah it's 100 percent legit. Bret is picking the whole thing himself and took suggestions from the fans on Twitter. Gonna be dropped in the first week of March I do believe, so preeeetttyyy fucking early. We should know the AWESOME match listing within two months.
> 
> When you have one of the greatest ever and give him an Unreleased Collector's DVD it's gonna be pure sex , trust me . I really loved Hogan's , and his was 90 percent full of complete trash. That Mr. T Grocery Store segment is awesome :lol


:mark: 

Phenomenal news.

Hogan's set was fun. Better than his anthology set, imo. A whole more entertaining to see all of the matches vs different slew of heels in the late 80's - early 90's. Matches vs Haku & Rick Rude ftw. Obviously the Bob Backlund one too. We all know I go ape over that.



Ownage™ said:


> I remember two TV matches v Benoit in '05. Both are good, one is really really good with Benoit selling a concussion. Don't remember if it's Gold Rush or the other one.
> 
> There's also a good HHH/Benoit/Edge triple threat in '04.


3/14, 5/2, & 11/18. 

It probably was Gold Rush since that followed Backlash. Benoit got ko'ed with a brick by Edge so H was probably targeting it. Been a long time since I've see it.

I remember the Eddie tribute match the best of the 3.

Yep. Good triple threat match. The lead in for the vacated World Championship and Elmination Chamber. I didn't count it since I was only going by straight up one on one matches. If I threw in triple threats then 2004 might take over as my favorite year for him during that 3 year period. Solely b/c of the two 5 star triple threats vs Benoit & Michaels.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Wow an epic Bret Hart DVD.....I can't wait to give Vinnie Mac money for that. I hope its got his title match with Flair on it...I need to own that match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

jonoaries said:


> Wow an epic Bret Hart DVD.....I can't wait to give Vinnie Mac money for that. I hope its got his title match with Flair on it...I need to own that match.


That's actually on the Top 50 Superstars dvd. It's not that great honestly, both Bret & Flair have gone on record saying their matches against each other weren't anything special. Think I gave it ** 3/4.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That's actually on the Top 50 Superstars dvd. It's not that great honestly, both Bret & Flair have gone on record saying their matches against each other weren't anything special. Think I gave it ** 3/4.


Whaaaaaat? I usually don't get those DVDs I stick to wrestler specific joints. I did cope Wrestling's Biggest Stars of the 80s & 90s though. I may let some more time pass and let the price go down more. I figured the reason it wasn't shown on DVD was the quality was probably bad but I still feel like I'm missing wrestling history by not having seen it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... just wanna ask (not sure if it was discussed the last couple of days), but what did everyone think of the US Title Fatal Four Way on Raw between Barrett, Kofi, Truth, and Cesaro? I personally loved it and would probably go in the ***-***1/2 range. I need to re-watch it though. Cesaro was a beast in the match, Kofi was Kofi and usually entertaining to watch in the ring. Barrett was better than he usually is and kept up with the better in-ring workers and Truth, though I'm not a fan, did a fine job as well.

To think, all it took was Teddy Long's twin brother switching the match from a tag to a fatal four way for it to happen, and had he not been there we would've probably gotten a forgettable tag.

Speaking of which, it feels like there have been more tag matches on Raw as of late. This week on Raw I counted what would've been three had Barrett/Cesaro vs. Kofi/Truth taken place. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about it. <_<


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't mind owning it. I questioned why it wasn't on Bret's original set. Even as an extra.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Thoughts/ratings for the following shows please:
> 
> Backlash 2008
> Cyber Sunday 2008
> ...


Survivor Series is iffy. Punk's win, Rhodes ruling the elimination match, & IC match + Ryder pop are the only good parts.

Dolph Ziggler vs John Morrison ~ ***
Beth/Eve ~ DUD
Team Orton vs Team Barrett ~ ***
Mark Henry vs Big Show ~ 1/2*
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio ~ ***
John Cena & The Rock vs Mike Mizanin & R-Truth ~ *1/2

Cyber Sunday is pretty choice. Didn't care much for Jericho vs Batista, although Game vs Hardy had another good match. Undertaker vs Show ruled. Hardy vs Bourne as a blast. I enjoyed Morrison & Miz vs Cryme Tyme too. Only crap worthy mention was Santino/Honky Tonk Man.

Only seen about half of Backlash 2008. It's ok. You'll probably enjoy Shawn vs Batista & Undertaker vs Edge.

Never seen Vengeance 2011 except for the wildly entertaining Last Man Standing match. I have it here with me atm. Been meaning to watch it myself. Heard it's actually really good. Pardon the Punk/Triple H vs Miz/Truth match. Seen polarizing opinions on that. Most seem to lean towards it being bad.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Better late than never, appreciate the reply. I'll probably drop SSeries from the list and pick up the other 3 at some point. Backlash is a show I've wanted for far too long and keep putting it off. 4-way & HBK/Tista look really promising. Vengeance just looks ridiculously consistent and I've only seen Henry/Show from it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Survivor Series is worth is for Henry-Show and Punk-Del Rio alone 

If you're a Rock fan then I definitely suggest copping that one for sure. Vengeance may not exactly be high on the ol' STARZ , but it's an up and down FUN PPV with a really great quadruple main event of sorts (Punk/Trips Tag , Henry/Show, Orton/Rhodes, Cena/Del Rio) with all of them ***-*** 1/2 . 2011 was a pretty fucking consistent year, felt like every match was ** 1/2+ to be honest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> So... just wanna ask (not sure if it was discussed the last couple of days), but what did everyone think of the US Title Fatal Four Way on Raw between Barrett, Kofi, Truth, and Cesaro? I personally loved it and would probably go in the ***-***1/2 range. I need to re-watch it though. Cesaro was a beast in the match, Kofi was Kofi and usually entertaining to watch in the ring. Barrett was better than he usually is and kept up with the better in-ring workers and Truth, though I'm not a fan, did a fine job as well.
> 
> To think, all it took was Teddy Long's twin brother switching the match from a tag to a fatal four way for it to happen, and had he not been there we would've probably gotten a forgettable tag.
> 
> Speaking of which, it feels like there have been more tag matches on Raw as of late. This week on Raw I counted what would've been three had Barrett/Cesaro vs. Kofi/Truth taken place. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about it. <_<


Cesaro bringing the awesome.

**1/4



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Better late than never, appreciate the reply. I'll probably drop SSeries from the list and pick up the other 3 at some point. Backlash is a show I've wanted for far too long and keep putting it off. 4-way & HBK/Tista look really promising. Vengeance just looks ridiculously consistent and I've only seen Henry/Show from it.


I need more 2008 PPVs myself. Backlash included. That year wasn't my favorite, yet the PPVs always seemed to be strong or consistent. It was perplexing. In all the right areas at least.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2008 is probably my least favorite year in wrestling history. Mainly because I thought both Trips and Punk weren't up to standards the entire year. The way they fucked Punk out of the belt which essentially led to Orton's big heel character which basically led to HHH-Orton really pissed me off.

Punk being fucked over in vain of one of the worst Wrestlemania main events coming from my all-time favorite wrestler in history ?

Not Cool.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't remember anything from Backlash '08 except for the three big matches (4 way, Michaels/Batista and Edge/Taker). All three are good.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The fatal 4 Way from RAW gets a solid ***

Good action, they really woke the audience up. Good match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show vs Great Khali.

8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Oh, forgot mention the obvious Triple H TV match from 2000 - vs Chris Jericho when Jericho "won" the WWF Championship. Yeah. That's a moment worth praising. Nothing to do with Triple H though. Only b/c I'm so big on Jericho.
> 
> THAT POP when he wins. :mark:


I like that match and HHH in it. They have a better match in June, actually. Raw 6/12, I think.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Game is fine in it. I only pop it in for the reason I stated. Goosebumps every time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Randy Savage vs Diamond Dallas Page (LV Sudden Death ; Halloween Havoc 1997)_

The only match I was looking forward to in this sea of shitty, shitty matches on this DVD. DDP has the taped ribs which Savage immediately goes after (PSYCHOLOGY FOLKS!). I love how right away these two guys go straight for the stands and duke it out there, it's almost a 97-99 mandatory match staple. Makes a ton of sense in this match though as that's all these two ever did in their matches. I probably mention this in every single Savage review that I do, but his standing double axe handle off the top rope is one of the most beautiful every-match moves I've ever seen in my entire life, deserves all the praise that it gets honestly.

Even when Savage Irish whips DDP into the barricade he aims for the ribs, Savage's WCW run was nothing to die for but he was downright magnificent here. These two go crazy, putting each other through the set and everything in this LV Sudden Death match (it's a LMS match for those who haven't seen this before ). They eventually make it back to the ring after this all out brawl and start hitting each other with the big moves ... Diamond cutter, Elbow drop, it's all here. Savage goes for a camera shot but DDP SITTING DROPKICKS IT INTO HIS MOTHER FUCKING FACE. Savage almost wins but ELIZABETH NAILS THE REF WITH A GLASS PLATTER (no idea why) and starts CHOKING the shit out of DDP until Kimberly makes the save!

Dusty Rhodes screaming "CATFIGHT!" just doesn't have that same ring to it as when Styles does it. Anyways, this match has a typical WCW bullshit ending with DDP getting nailed in the ribs with a bat by a fake Sting for Savage to win the Go-Home match in this feud. Savage's last Classic perhaps ? Awesome, AWESOME match here by an all time great and another guy who was entering a fantastic prime in DDP. Loved the symmetry of how this was Savage's last big feud while this was Page's first. LOVE the trilogy, and this is no exception. One of the best WCW matches I've seen in a while.

******


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*RAW: The Best of 2009 - Disc Two

**United States Championship
*MVP (c) vs. Kofi Kingston - ** 1/2
_June 1_

*Vacant WWE Championship - Fatal Four Way
*John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. Big Show - ** 3/4
_June 15_

*WWE Championship - Last Man Standing
*Randy Orton (c) vs. Triple H - *** 3/4
_June 22_

*Gauntlet Match
*Randy Orton vs. Evan Bourne, Jack Swagger, & Mark Henry - 1/2*
_June 29_

Randy Orton vs. Ted Dibiase - ** 1/2
_July 6_

*Divas #1 Contender's Match
*Kelly Kelly vs. Gail Kim vs. Beth Phoenix vs. Alicia Fox - ** 1/4
_August 10_

Chris Jericho vs. MVP - **
_August 31_

*United States Championship - Fatal Four Way*
Kofi Kingston (c) vs. The Miz vs. Carlito vs. Jack Swagger - ** 1/2


*Overall Disc Score: 6.5/10

*- They did a really stupid thing in highlighting and showing the finish to the vacant WWE Title match in June's highlight package before we actually saw it. Odd decision making there. MVP/Kofi was decent but paced too slowly for a Kofi match. WWE Title 4-way was fun. Liked the booking with Big Show dominating throughout until he took a couple finishers and Orton sneaks in to grab the win. His character work in this year was fantastic. I seem to mark out heavy every time Orton wins a title... rton

- HELL YES, Orton vs. Trips last man standing was great. Brilliant story around Hunter's knee and some brutal legwork from Randy. Loved how HHH always had something in the environment to help him get to his feet, whether it was the announce table or the entrance ramp. The ladder spot where the electrical guy gets drilled in the face is fucking AWESOME. Finish was really well done on Trips' part. Great selling for sure. This is a match I could see getting better with every watch. OH and I almost forgot, this is shown in its entirety since it was on that RAW where Trump took over and had no commercials.

- Basically every match after that is unmemorable. Gauntlet match is totally pointless but garners a half * for Henry's headbutt that busted Orton open. Divas match was actually really entertaining. Spotty fun. US Title 4-way was essentially the same.

- There's an ass ton of coverage on Trump buying RAW and getting fired. Didn't care to see _that _much of it. Segments suck until DX comes back into the picture. Hilarious piece from Vince's birthday. It's his 84th birthday! :lmao

- Yeah, the summer months here were pretty shitty.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton vs Dibiase Jr made it. (Y)

Got that 4 way on a VHS tape. (holy shit, I know) It's decent. Too short imo. Even with two bad workers in it I thought it was on the path of actually being something fun.

I remember fans actually popping for the Divas four way match. Gail Kim wins in Canada. Then next week she BOMBS vs Mickie James in an absolute WMOTYC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*NWO : The Revolution DVD Review*

IT FUCKING SUCKS

*0/10*


...... In all honesty, I have four matches left to watch on the DVD and it's one of the worst I've ever seen. The Savage-DDP match and decent documentary should save it from a fail, but discs 2 and 3 on this set are two of the worst discs I have ever laid my eyes on. Eleven matches in.......... ONE FUCKING MATCH OVER ***** . Why can't WWE ever get a WCW release completely right?

Honestly starting to think that WWE sabotages these "Monday Night Wars"/Nitro/NWO related DVDs just to subtlely bury WCW even further down in history. There are TWO FUCKING WCW releases penned for next year, and I'm willing to bet a billion dollars that one or BOTH will be in the running for worst DVD of the year. SAVAGE...PAGE....IS...SO....AWESOME....MUCH.....RESIST.....POSITIVE ..... REVIEW.

:vince BURY DAT WRASSLIN' COMPANY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Jay Leno match made the set. That's deserving of a positive review right there.

KEVIN EUBANKS DIAMOND CUTTER


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TBF 99% of the guys in the NWO were terrible, and had terrible matches 99% of the time so they couldn't exactly fill an NWO DVD with classics .

Speaking of DDP/Savage... not a fan at all. Watched their matches for the WCW Poll and expected awesomeness... and was extremely disappointed .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I loved their brawls. Fans ate them up and they were actually worth seeing compared to the VAST majority of WCW main events from the Hogan Era - demise.

Maybe it's b/c I'm a mark for both Savage & Page.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Savage/Page Great American Bash 1997 rules. Cal's gonna fucking Cal


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might have been good had both guys not been obsessed with writing down their matches 8*D.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *WWE Championship - Last Man Standing
> *Randy Orton (c) vs. Triple H - *** 3/4
> _June 22_
> 
> - HELL YES, Orton vs. Trips last man standing was great. Brilliant story around Hunter's knee and some brutal legwork from Randy. Loved how HHH always had something in the environment to help him get to his feet, whether it was the announce table or the entrance ramp. The ladder spot where the electrical guy gets drilled in the face is fucking AWESOME. Finish was really well done on Trips' part. Great selling for sure. This is a match I could see getting better with every watch. OH and I almost forgot, this is shown in its entirety since it was on that RAW where Trump took over and had no commercials.


I need to watch this again. Remember it being really good and quite comfortably their second best match together after the LMS at No Mercy '07 but I haven't seen it since it happened.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

DDP/Savage ****


Great brawl. Savage did a good job putting DDP over and DDP did an awesome job of selling his injuries and pulling the audience in. Had some good drama, an old school big fight. 


Its a shame DDP had the best matches of the nWo DVD set lol


----------



## kennedy=god (May 12, 2007)

I've just watched a few Eddie matches' and promo's and now i'm in a really good mood


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> 3/14, 5/2, & 11/18.
> 
> It probably was Gold Rush since that followed Backlash. Benoit got ko'ed with a brick by Edge so H was probably targeting it. Been a long time since I've see it.


14/3 is the best of the bunch IMO. Benoit giving Trips 10 Germans = EPIC~!

Gold Rush would have been better if they had got 5 more minutes to go with it but it was still great and Benoit making HHH tap out = :mark:



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> 2008 is probably my least favorite year in wrestling history. Mainly because I thought both Trips and Punk weren't up to standards the entire year. The way they fucked Punk out of the belt which essentially led to Orton's big heel character which basically led to HHH-Orton really pissed me off.
> 
> Punk being fucked over in vain of one of the worst Wrestlemania main events coming from my all-time favorite wrestler in history ?
> 
> Not Cool.


Like Carlito would say: That... that's cool!

And it's automatically a reason to make 2008 > 2012. Just based on the stuff that took place there, 08 seems to be the last good year for WWE to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Last night I had to take the DVD out and cry in the corner a little bit once I made it to Fall Brawl 1998 and the "War Games" match. I use that term VERY FUCKING LOOSELY. Going to make a second attempt to blow through this DVD now, but I can't complain because even though the DVD is horrible, it's atleast a bunch of coherent material.

My number one pet peeve on WWE DVDs ; incoherent matches that have no overall theme or cause between all of them ala "The Top 50 Finishers DVD" which took me 8 different sittings to get through even though the material wasn't bad....


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Oh, forgot mention the obvious Triple H TV match from 2000 - vs Chris Jericho when Jericho "won" the WWF Championship. Yeah. That's a moment worth praising. *Nothing to do with Triple H though*. Only b/c I'm so big on Jericho.
> 
> THAT POP when he wins. :mark:


You see this I have to disagree with tbh. This moment was everything to do with Triple H. Jericho could have been anybody, Taka, Rikishi, Kane, whoever. The real reason those fans popped like crazy was because somebody had finally beat HHH for the title. Jericho was over big time and it got a great response because it was him but he really could have been anybody who was over at that time and those fans would have lost their shit regardless. I'm talking in general terms here. Of course if you mark for Jericho then it was everything to do with him but generally speaking, that pop and reaction had way more to do with people hating HHH than loving Jericho/whoever else it could have been who got that spot.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck is correct. Just look at HHH vs Taka. HHH made him look like a million bucks and the crowd was into the idea that someone could finally beat HHH. Sure, Jericho was over but it was the idea that someone had defeated a SUPER over heel champ right in front of their eyes on live TV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Despite the fact I think HHH has been mediocre the majority of his career, he was THE MAN in 2000. Nobody could have made Taka look like THAT in their match. The pop wouldn't have been THAT big if Jericho had "won" the title from Kurt Angle or something. People watched the shows and bought the PPV's in part to see HHH get BEAT. Not me, I loved the guy in 2000 .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of AWESOME Triple H performances, Y'all should check out Trips vs Big Show @ NYR 2006. Easily the MOTN and an awesome performance by both as we get a match that's chalked full of psychology. As far as targeting a particular body part goes, this is Hunter at his finest. On last watch I gave it a **** and it's for sure a top 5 Show singles (probably second, I have it slightly above the Sheamus match).

They had a match after that on Raw that was almost as good too. Triple H from 04-06 really warms my heart with great memories... AHHHHHHHHHHH :hhh

He got some short motherfuckin' hair now so methinks he comes back as the evil authority figure from here on out. Would be awesome as we get an authority figure who can actually get in there and bury some motherfuckers.

Because if we need anything more in Wrestling than HHH's burials , I don't wanna watch wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was pimping those Show matches in 06 long before anyone else. I'M A FUCKING TREND SETTER AROUND HERE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ownage™ said:


> I need to watch this again. Remember it being really good and quite comfortably their second best match together after the LMS at No Mercy '07 but I haven't seen it since it happened.


It's more story driven than most LMS matches I've seen. It doesn't have any big spots or blade jobs of course but it's miles better than basically any other singles matches they had together in 2009... probably 2008 too.

Side note, went in to a local used DVD store. Found *Survivor Series '04* for only $7 so I decided to pick it up... until the guy told me he couldn't find the disc. Not cool. :favre3


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I love HHH/Show from NYR 06. HHH was at the height of his prickishness against Eugene from 04.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Since HHH seems to be the talk of the thread today; his best heel performance?

My pick is against Flair at Taboo Tuesday in 05. God I love that match.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

HHH was the man in 2000. He was an incredible culmination of an incredible character and a fantastic worker. The taka match is so freaking good. I found myself rooting for taka because HHH is such an easily hated character. He's such an incredible prickish heel. His character ups any babyface performance against him.

His best prick heel performance as a pure character is his match against Eugene easily.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

vs Shawn @ Summerslam would be my pick for sure. The crowd HATED how he was targeting the back just to be a prick and try to cripple Shawn.

Darkhorse pick would be vs Eugene @ Summerslam 2004. Such a fucking amazing performance by Trips , even if I wouldn't even put it in his top 70 matches ever to be honest. But as far as pure heelishness goes, this pretty much tops it out. Faking injury to outsmart a retard ? C'mon man, that's fucking low.

The Flair series as well. When he picks up the mic in the LMS and screams "Flair you old bastard ! Staaayyyyy Dooowww.... AHHHHH" and then gets his balls grabbed by Flair only to nail him with the microphone afterwards, what a despicable bastard.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Flair stuff was gold. The gun point to Flair after he knocked the shit out of him with the sledgehammer was great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For heel performances, HHH is just so good at it. He always gets fans to root for the babyface even if it's against Maven who comes out to silence every week. I'm almost at TT05 but wont watch it now because I want it saved for when it's time for the PPV. I have to go with Eugene by default.

*Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 01-09-2005)*

Wow, these two just do it every single time. Almost as much chemistry as Orton has with Benoit. Orton is just so _perfect_ as the dickhead heel. His facial expressions, his trash talking and use of heelish tactics are in great display in here. Another well paced match with Orton dominating with heelish offense. I loved some of the stuff he did such as removing his kneepad for the Jumping Knee Drop on Rey's chest or when he slaps Rey across the head with some funny one-liners. And his smirk when doing that Legend Killer pose.... ha, he's just a natural born heel (even though I root for him every time 8*D). Rey working as the underdog never fails and he builds up momentum much to the crowd's delight towards the end and starts to look like he has this on lock until Bob Orton holds onto his leg when he's about to West Coast Pop, causing a distraction which Orton utilizes to give Rey a BRUTAL lowblow followed by the first ever Super RKO from the top rope! Great match with a great ending. ****3/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I the only one that thinks the Flair LMS is overrated? I wouldn't put it anywhere near their cage match.

While I don't like the SS 02 match with HBK, HHH's heel shit is good. Same with the Eugene match, and I'm not the biggest fan of that either.

Eddie at GAB 05 puts everything HHH did to fucking SHAME though .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LMS was pretty good and brutal, but not sure if it cracks **** like most people have it. I think I like the cage match more, too. Probably ***3/4 for that, and **** or so for the cage.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for LMS, ****1/4 for Cage.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

All this talk is making me miss heel Trips lol. 

Btw, I notice all the Christmas themed usernames. If I change it can it get changed back to _Starbuck _again when the holidays are over?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been missing him since 2006 

Yeah, Seabs said this doesn't count towards the 3-month name change rule. :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think so. Seabs threatened to keep mine for the entire 3 months, which suggests they would get changed back after christmas.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cool. I've thought about changing my name before but never went through with it. It's such a big decision 8*D. Lol. I might go for it this time though to fit in with all you cool people. 

I swear to God if Trips goes full blown corporate prick heel within the next few years then :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: to say the least lol. I'd love him to just come out, shoot on everybody and play up all to all his criticisms, then lol and tell everybody to fuck off because he's running shit now. Gold. Please let it happen.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, I really don't know where to put this and I don't see the sense in busting open a new thread just to state something but here it goes.

So I downloaded a bunch of old Wrestling Observer Live shit and hit's really freaking amazing to see how much things haven't changed since then. Meltzer and Alvarez are reviewing Backlash 2001 and here's what Alvarez has to say:

"I didn't have much expectations going in and the PPV didn't do much to change my opinion"
"It just felt like a superstacked RAW"
"I don't think it justifies the price of $29.95"

It's freaking amazing to see how in 2012 this is the same shit these guys say lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 2001 is awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smarks have always been the same. Always complaining. I've read whatever is available from the message boards of the past and during the Attitude Era, they still have things to complain about. Including things that everyone nowadays longs for. But that doesn't mean 2012 is good all of a sudden. Unlike the past, this year deserves to get shitted on non-stop.

On a different note, I just finished watching Ricky Steamboat/Ric Flair from Chi Town Rumble 89. ****1/2. Absolutely awesome with a great crowd. Not gonna go full 5 stars because I need to watch a lot more old school wrestling to get used to this basic mat style where a Crossbody is considered "the big move".


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^^^^^ Can't wait to watch my Naitch set. Can't wait to watch all the sets I'll be getting over Xmas lol. Roll on January. 

Since 2010 I haven't felt that WWE PPV's have been worth my money so I stopped buying them. I used to get them all, now I only really buy 2 or 3 a year. I didn't get Survivor Series for the first time ever this year and I only ordered it last year because of Rock. I only ordered Summerslam this year because of Trips/Brock. If that wasn't there I wasn't paying for that shit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've seen a few of the Flair/Steamboat bouts, I don't think they've aged well. Nothing really screams ***** about them for me.


----------



## kennedy=god (May 12, 2007)

I always think of this whenever i think of heel Triple H. Was going mental all night as a 9 year old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-_iI4qZNc

Forces Earl Hebner to reverse the decision, promises not to hurt him then fires him and pedigrees him anyway! :lol:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I fucking hated Earl Hebner when I was a kid lol. And Linda McMahon. Fuckers.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit, Jericho/Benoit vs Austin/HHH from RAW in '01 is just fucking awesome. The first time I saw it, i didn't think much of it. But holy shit, the second watch made me go nuts!!!

*****


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Me too. Fuck them. I'm the same way about ordering PPVs. I used to order all those shitty In Your House events every single month. Then stopped watching wrestling for a few years and came back around 2004, ordering every PPV again. Stopped ordering them aside from a sprinkle here or there. Always order Mania and RR. Last year I got MITB and S. Series (for The Rock), and this year I got ER (obviously), SSlam (obviously), and S. Series. Feel bad for getting S. Series this year, but it's tradition 

edit I'm a bit torn on that match. Match itself is awesome but it took HHH out of action for 8 months


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Holy shit, Jericho/Benoit vs Austin/HHH from RAW in '01 is just fucking awesome. The first time I saw it, i didn't think much of it. But holy shit, the second watch made me go nuts!!!
> 
> *****


I've got it at five stars myself. I remember absolutely loving it as a kid and it held up recently.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SANTA GAME said:


> ^^^^^^^^^ Can't wait to watch my Naitch set. Can't wait to watch all the sets I'll be getting over Xmas lol. Roll on January.
> 
> Since 2010 I haven't felt that WWE PPV's have been worth my money so I stopped buying them. I used to get them all, now I only really buy 2 or 3 a year. I didn't get Survivor Series for the first time ever this year and I only ordered it last year because of Rock. I only ordered Summerslam this year because of Trips/Brock. If that wasn't there I wasn't paying for that shit.


Do you need ant scans for that Flair set mate, as im sure you said they had no inserts (a constant arsehole i know)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - Armageddon '07 - ***3/4
Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy '08 - ****1/2
Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - Cyber Sunday '08 - ****1/4

Awesome series, imo.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, who would've thought that series would turn out that well, especially in a face/face dynamic?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Yeah, who would've thought that series would turn out that well, especially in a face/face dynamic?


It's a shame that the feud ended when that awful Triple H/Kozlov feud started. Went from entertaining to absolutely dreadful in like a week.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, good lord Kozlov was bad. WTF were they thinking?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wish they kept him with the I LOVE DOUBLE DOUBLE E gimmick that he never ended up debuting with.

Such a bad option to be in a main event though and I think they realized it shortly after SS.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wonder what is in store for THE GAME @ Mania. Hope they give him a proper retirement storyline like they did HBK, Flair, etc. Will be a sad day.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GAME should go against Mark Henry at WM. He doesn't fit in with any of the BIG FOUR (Rock, Cena, Lesnar, Taker) and with Mizark, he can have a victory so he doesn't look like a Mania jobber.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He kinda fits in w/BROCK if they want H to get revenge. I don't know if I want to see that match again. Would rather have BROCK face Rock or Taker. HHH/Henry would be okay if it's not HHH's last match. If he plans on retiring, he needs to face someone BIG and lose.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> He kinda fits in w/BROCK if they want H to get revenge. I don't know if I want to see that match again. Would rather have BROCK face Rock or Taker. HHH/Henry would be okay if it's not HHH's last match. If he plans on retiring, he needs to face someone BIG and lose.


Orton should retire The Game. Yeah, I said it.

Nah, jk, It should be Cena


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im not sure on Brock's appearance (who is lol), but IF they HAVE to have the HHH/Brock rematch, then id prefer it happens maybe at RR, leaving Mania free for Brock to face someone else.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> He kinda fits in w/BROCK if they want H to get revenge. I don't know if I want to see that match again. Would rather have BROCK face Rock or Taker. HHH/Henry would be okay if it's not HHH's last match. If he plans on retiring, he needs to face someone BIG and lose.


Oh no, not his last match with Henry. I brought it up just as a random filler to add to his WM list since Rock/Cena II and Taker/Brock are the two big matches that should happen. I really don't want to see Brock/HHH II. And his retirement match should be at WM31 or something. Next year should be all about Cena/Taker.

My perfect WM29 card would be:
Rock/Cena II (WWE Title)
Taker/BROCK
Sheamus/Orton (WHC)
HHH/Mizark
Big Show/Ryback
Mysterio/Sin Cara
Jericho/D-Bryan


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wouldn't mind a Cena/GAME retirement match. Yeah, I don't want HHH/BROCK @ Mania, either. Have the rematch at RR if you have to, planting the seeds for the HHH/Road to Mania retirement storyline.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Oh no, not his last match with Henry. I brought it up just as a random filler to add to his WM list since Rock/Cena II and Taker/Brock are the two big matches that should happen. I really don't want to see Brock/HHH II. And his retirement match should be at WM31 or something. Next year should be all about Cena/Taker.
> 
> My perfect WM29 card would be:
> Rock/Cena II (WWE Title)
> ...


Wouldn't mind a card like that, although I think Ziggler will be WHC by then, defending against Orton/Sheamus. Maybe a triple threat?

Where do you have Punk in all of that?

edit fuck me at the double post


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Where do you have Punk in all of that?


Probably released


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ether said:


> Probably released


:lmao

Holy fuck!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Wouldn't mind a card like that, although I think Ziggler will be WHC by then, defending against Orton/Sheamus. Maybe a triple threat?
> 
> Where do you have Punk in all of that?


Wouldn't mind that. Specially if Orton would finally become World Champion after being outside of the title scene for over a year and a half. Actually, it's good. Add Ziggler to it.

As for Punk, preferably not on the card lol. But seriously, I would have Kane beat him. And then Christian/The Moz/Kofi/R-Truth vs Damien Sandow/Cody Rhodes/Del Rio/Barrett since I've found no other place for them.

:lmao @ "probably released".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao

I can't see him being champ for over a year then having a mediocre card placement @ Mania. Then again, with the other big matches all but locked in, I guess it's unavoidable.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> :lmao
> 
> I can't see him being champ for over a year then having a mediocre card placement @ Mania. Then again, with the other big matches all but locked in, I guess it's unavoidable.


Punk's most likely facing Undertaker at WM according to Big Dave and Little Alvarez.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Triple H will never book himself in a match with Henry at WM. Nor should he.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> :lmao
> 
> I can't see him being champ for over a year then having a mediocre card placement @ Mania. Then again, with the other big matches all but locked in, I guess it's unavoidable.


You never know. The Moz went from main eventing WM27 to being in an afterthought, random tag match in WM28.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Punk's most likely facing Undertaker at WM according to Big Dave and Little Alvarez.


Ehhhhhhhhh

The problem with all Taker matches is that I know he's gonna win the matches, it's been like this for the past 5 Manias. I don't see how they're gonna make Punk a threat either, like many people here have brought up. Then again, they did it with Edge and those 2 had arguably a top 5 streak match. I don't know, I don't really want to see Taker again unless he's facing Rock or Brock


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> You never know. The Moz went from main eventing WM27 to being in an afterthought, random tag match in WM28.


Of course there was 11 months difference between when Miz lost the title and WM28 happening. With Punk there will only be about 2 months. I doubt he's going to drop down the card that quickly.



Ether said:


> Probably released


We have a thread winner.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> You never know. The Moz went from main eventing WM27 to being in an afterthought, random tag match in WM28.


Miz wasn't champ for a year, though. Idk, I guess anything is possible, but I have a feeling Punk will get a high profile match @ Mania this year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Miz didn't even deserve to be in a random multiman match at WM after his atrocious WM main event and terrible title reign.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ this


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Smarks have always been the same. Always complaining. I've read whatever is available from the message boards of the past and during the Attitude Era, they still have things to complain about. Including things that everyone nowadays longs for. But that doesn't mean 2012 is good all of a sudden. Unlike the past, this year deserves to get shitted on non-stop.
> 
> On a different note, I just finished watching Ricky Steamboat/Ric Flair from Chi Town Rumble 89. ****1/2. Absolutely awesome with a great crowd. Not gonna go full 5 stars because I need to watch a lot more old school wrestling to get used to this basic mat style where a Crossbody is considered "the big move".


Mad respect. Too many times have I seen individuals give big stars to old school matches simply because everybody else has done it as well. When I first started watching old-school NWA I didn't like it at all but I gave it great ratings anyways because if I never it would have been "strange" and would have made me a "ruthless agression era mark". Took me a damn long time to love the old school NWA style , and while I still prefer the WWE main event style as a whole, I've grown to adore alot of old school shit (mainly Flair, who I fully acknowledge as the GOAT by far).

Old school wrestling IMO is an acquired taste for those who didn't watch it during that time period. It REALLY grows on you though. When it comes to the WWF/WWE in general, I can unbiasedly say that I believe that the 2000s-Present produced more awesome matches that -1999, even though 1997 is the greatest year in wrestling history IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh yeah, another old school match that I've watched is Steamboat/Savage from Wrestlemania III and although I understand how special it was for its time, it doesn't do much for me since I started from the more modern stuff so it felt a bit tame in comparison. Still a ***1/2. I did enjoy Steamboat/Flair a lot, though. There are lengthy matches where I keep looking at the time of the video to see when it's over, I didn't need to do it for this one and that says a lot about it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Their COTC 2/3 falls match is my 2nd GOAT Match 

Speaking of Punk getting the "midcard" treatment after Mania ; I just don't see it happening, and it's not because I'm a huge Punk mark trust me.... When have you ever seen WWE pour this much money in merchandising and marketing into one superstar not named John Cena ? Besides Cena, Punk has more merchandise than any other Superstar in the company, and has been firmly entrenched as either option 1A or 2 in terms of generating revenue. 

Punk gets a top 3 main event at Mania no doubt (hopefulyy THE main event with the Undertaker, HHH, or Cena) and is back into the title picture very, very soon. Imagine a title scene without Punk ATM, who the fuck would carry the WWE Championship ? After seeing people like MIZ tarnish the belt it finally feels relevant again with Punk holding it for so long. If Cena wins the belt (which he will) , The only person I could see feuding with him would be like.... Daniel Bryan or something.

Outside of Punk and Bryan (Who is almost a tweener at this point) , their heel roster is fucking HORRIBLE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd say Bryan is a face now that he isn't arguing with his tag team partner anymore and they're feuding with The Shield.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE's top 4 heels outside of CM Punk :

- Alberto Del Rio
- Big Show
- Dolph Ziggler 
- Wade Barrett

After Mania we probably won't have Rock, Brock, Trips, or Taker...... The face WWE champion will either be Cena or Ryback (he'll probably be WHC by then) , so the main feuds with Cena as champion would be something like this...

Cena vs Barrett
Cena vs Ziggler 
Cena vs Del Rio
Cena vs Big Show

Fucking TERRIBLE. Now, if we had CM Punk as a heel world Champion we would have a TON of opportunities for new faces. 

Punk vs Sheamus
Punk vs Orton
Punk vs Miz (Yeah I know)

Much better options.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm actually kind of OK with not going to Mania next year because I'm almost certain that Rock/Cena II and Brock/Taker are a lock and I'm fine with that. I will be attending Mania 30 and as much as I'm busting to see Brock/Taker, Cena/Taker is the one I _really _want to see and I fully believe that match will take place then so I'm good.

As for Trips, I really don't know where he fits into things for 29 but it certainly isn't with Mark Henry. The fuck outta here with that shit. While he may not fit into the BIG matches this time, he deserves a little more hype than the Mizark with all due respect to Sexual Chocolate. I'm actually not even certain he'll have a match since he cut his hair and all and I had that marked as the point where he was officially going to stop competing. Confusing bastard lol. On a similar note, how fucking weird is he going to look coming out trying to look all badass without his badass trademark hair? :lmao Strange.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Outside of Punk, Mcintyre, Henry and occasionally Big Show I don't even think there's another heel worker on the roster who can actually work an interesting control segment. Del Rio does a lot of creative stuff and it all moves along nicely in a 'psychology' manner, but fuck me does it ever drag and never grab me. Of course this isn't helped when he works guys who aren't as good at making their comeback a big deal, such as Orton. Cesaro has promise but he hasn't really had a long match yet where he can put together a proper control segment that isn't just a string of moves.

Its even worse in tag matches atm. The southern tag formula whilst formulaic is a brilliant style but between the matches barely getting time and none of the heels really exhibiting classic tag team heel tactics (illegally entering the ring, distracting the referee, choking the babyface with the tag rope, blindsiding the babyface on the apron) the matches just blend together into a really played out formula. I think there was one tag a couple of months back with Ziggler and Del Rio as the heels and they had to wait for Ziggler to get back into the ring from the outside just to do the dual tag spot with both babyface and heel coming into the ring off the apron.

I have no idea who I'd like Punk to face at Wrestlemania tbh. He has good chemistry with Taker when given the chance, but as much as I think of the guy I could just see WWE not doing enough booking wise to make a program with Taker feel as big as it should for 'The Streak'. Honestly would prefer he works Bryan if truth be told, especially if Bryan ends up going face and they build him up a bit.

Oh and put me down for the territories being a better style than the WWE Main Event style, though when done well WWE style is probably one of the only styles I can still appreciate in wrestling outside of FUTEN and classic Lucha. Flair/Steamboat is the definitive series in US wrestling for me, mainly because of the character dynamic between the respectful and humble Steamboat and the brash/cocky and world phenom Flair. Their chemistry is fluid and brilliant but its their ability to make the character dynamic a factor in almost every exchange that makes their matches that extra bit special for me. Every Steamboat transition either comes about through Flair's arrogance or Steamboat's tenacity and hardwork, and Flair manages to find a great balance between blatant short-cuts and just plain good wrestling to put over his talent.

Windham/Flair as a series isn't really that far behind though, and in many ways I can see the arguement for Windham being an even better babyface foil for Flair. He brought the speed and power as well as the immense young potential that created this beautiful story between the young phenom and the grizzled veteran looking to outsmart the potentially more talented foe.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Turn Orton heel and problem solved.

Heel Orton/Face Miz
Heel Orton/Face Seamus
Heel Orton/Face or tweener Daniel Bryan
Heel Orton/Face Mysterio
Heel Orton/Face Ryback
Heel Orton/DA RAWK
Heel Orton/Cena (yes, again lol)

He works much better ring wise as a heel imo and character wise, well, that's a no brainer really.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I see lots of people are getting in DAT CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!

I'm thrilled to be going to Mania, though I'm not too excited for Rock/Cena II and Brock/HHH which I'm sure will be the top two matches, I am very much looking forward to the possible Taker/Punk match... or hell any match Taker has. Truth be told if Taker doesn't end up being on the card, I may just sell my tickets and be ready for WM30. 

In a perfect world though, the main event will be Rock/Punk for the WWE title (and they can throw Cena in there as well for all I care... won't hurt the match for me), Taker/Lesnar, Heel Orton/Sheamus, Mysterio/Cara and maybe Ryback/Show for the WHC if Sheamus/Orton isn't for that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My heart tells me that Trips is going to work simply because he's reached "Big-Named-Part-Timer" status as has Taker. REALLY thinking that we're getting Trips-Lesnar LMS or something and that would be the reason that we haven't seen an LMS in quite some time. I think he should end his career with a loss to Punk to pay him back for that HORRIBLE booking decision at NOC 11, or just give him his win back in general. Trips-Punk @ Mania is my dream match but I honestly don't think we'll get it.

Cena-Rock-Brock (WWE Championship ; Foreshadowing on the poster)
Punk-Taker
Ryback-Big Show
Sheamus-Orton

That's my card prediction honestly. My BRAIN tells me Trips wouldn't wrestle with that beautiful head of hair that he has. In all honesty it's probably HHH behind the Shield, leading to Ryback-HHH @ mania :lol ....... I'm half serious on that one. If Ryback goes over HHH/Punk/Brock at Mania I would fucking RAGE. It honestly has the potential to begin another self-imposed exile from the current product.

I'd be all for Orton-Rock or Orton-Lesnar TBH. Orton is one of the big 3 CURRENT performers (alongside Punk and Cena) that deserves a big match with one of the part-timers. Punk's getting Rock at RR and probably Taker at Mania, while Cena is THE GUY anyways. Orton has reached the stage in his career where he's "dream match" worthy, and an Orton-Punk rematch would make me JIZZ.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really don't want to see Punk vs Orton ever again. I can't stand the sight of seeing my favorite living wrestler job to that cocksucker.

Turning him heel would do wonders, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

C2D we get it. :lmao

Orton as a heel is so much better than face Orton. Other than '04 face Orton which I kind of enjoyed.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Brock LMS could own but only if they went out there and legit went crazy with the spots and shit. Still think Brock is for Taker though. It would be stupid to put Punk in the streak match to me and I've already outlined why a million times. He's just not a big enough name or anywhere close to being credible enough for a match like that, especially if he either loses to Rock cleanly or needs interference to win a match again come the Rumble. There's no way anybody gains enough momentum to challenge for the streak in 2 months lol. For all those reasons, I don't ever see them booking Punk/Taker at Mania and I'll genuinely be shocked if it happens. They're retarded and all but they aren't _that _retarded.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton going against The Rock or Lesnar would be AWESOME! Problem is those idiots that book the shows don't even think of that possibility and are rather on some straight up bullshit. They really need to put him in 'dream matches' rather than have him wrestle the same generic midcard heels 5000 times a week.

And a LMS is probably the only way I could accept a Lesnar/Hunter rematch. Something about LMS matches and Hunter does well when he's in one as evidenced by those he's had with Flair, Orton and Jericho. Even the HBK one wasn't bad.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Heel Orton only works for me in his younger days tbh. I found him dull as dishwater in the Viper phase outside of the right gimmick match where he could play up his sadistic side. I just think his languid and passive style is just never going to click with me regardless of whether he's face or heel. Only way I can see me slightly caring about him is if they just stick him with Mysterio and Christian for an extended period of time since those are the two guys he seems to generally click with: though I'd prefer face Christian as opposed to the less than stellar matches we got after Christian turned.

I seriously don't see why they don't just give Bryan a run in the upper midcard, give him a title and let him work guys for 15 minutes plus. I mean christ the booking and creative juices are at an all time low, may as well at least try and give fans who look forward to good matches on PPV an incentive to purchase a PPV if they think Bryan will deliver. Mysterio also needs to get away from Cara asap and work Cesaro because that could be brilliant if they play it right.

EDIT: Rock/Orton sounds like one of the most dull feuds on paper I can imagine. I mean I get people may be tired of Punk's waning character which has been on repeat for 3 months now, but fucking Orton is hardly going to be the guy to make a feud captivating and he'd sooner be shown up by Rock than Punk would be: not to mention I can't forsee the day that current day Orton gets a better match out of anyone than Punk.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

04 face Orton was too corny sometimes. He'd come out like a chicken with his head cut off spinning around with his arms out smiling like a 12 year old. Nothing will top Legend Killer Randy imo.

edit agreed w/Caida on Orton being dull as a face/heel and giving Bryan a legit run at the top.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Legend Killer Orton OWNED. He was my favorite wrestler for a few years back then.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, no thanks at all on Orton/Rock. Am I the only one (other than Caida, I guess) who doesn't get excited AT ALL about any of Orton's feuds? Rock would outshine Orton wayyyy more than he'd outshine Punk.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Any of Orton's recent feuds? No. He hasn't had a proper feud since Cena and HHH in 09 tbh. That's the problem with most guys these days. They have a slew of random matches instead of feuds and rivalries. Just look at Seamus/ADR for half the year. They finally gave Seamus something to work with in a proper feud with Show and look at the results. 

Trips should just come out at the end of Cena/Rock and help Cena win the title for a double heel turn. Could you imagine that happening in New York of all places? Holy fuck that place would be throwing trash in the ring like there was no tomorrow. :lmao On second thought, please don't happen because that's something I definitely want to be there for, haha.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would like to see Orton/Lesnar, even if it's heel/heel. Make it absolutely brutal, plz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> EDIT: Rock/Orton sounds like one of the most dull feuds on paper I can imagine. I mean I get people may be tired of Punk's waning character which has been on repeat for 3 months now, but fucking Orton is hardly going to be the guy to make a feud captivating and he'd sooner be shown up by Rock than Punk would be: not to mention I can't forsee the day that current day Orton gets a better match out of anyone than Punk.


I disagree. If Orton gets a change in character and moves away from this Viper shit, he'll be pretty good since his mic skills are not bad and he's the most charismatic guy on the roster after Cena (not including Christian since he's more often away than not). For his wrestling, I think he's always been great except when he was getting started and around 09 when he had that super methodical style. He's still the best choice after Cena from the full-time roster when it comes to "dream" matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've thought about H helping Cena win and performing a double heel turn, with H playing the Vince McMahon role, and Cena playing the Austin role. Would OWN.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If a Cena/H double heel turn were ever to happen I'd be the happiest fan in the world lol. Seriously. 

:cena2 + :hhh = :mark: :mark: :mark:

It's still crazy to me that Orton's only 32 or whatever he is and look at his career already. Mad.


----------



## kennedy=god (May 12, 2007)

Don't understand why people think it will be Punk/Taker and HHH/Brock. Brock/Taker has been a certainty to me since the moment Brock signed, in fact i'd be willing to bet they had it in mind before Brock even re-signed with the WWE.

A Punk/HHH would be so much better this time as well as long as it's done right, with Punk as a fully-fledged heel they can really have him & Heyman try to take over the company and all sorts. I've got an image in my brain of nearly all the heels on the roster wearing those "I'm a Paul Heyman guy" t-shirts and beating up on Cena, Rock, HHH etc. and it's beautiful. I really think the build-up to WM could be something special if it's done right.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wouldn't mind Punk/HHH, Rock/Cena, BROCK/Taker.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

kennedy=god said:


> Don't understand why people think it will be Punk/Taker and HHH/Brock. *Brock/Taker has been a certainty to me since the moment Brock signed, in fact i'd be willing to bet they had it in mind before Brock even re-signed with the WWE.*
> 
> A Punk/HHH would be so much better this time as well as long as it's done right, with Punk as a fully-fledged heel they can really have him & Heyman try to take over the company and all sorts. I've got an image in my brain of nearly all the heels on the roster wearing those "I'm a Paul Heyman guy" t-shirts and beating up on Cena, Rock, HHH etc. and it's beautiful. I really think the build-up to WM could be something special if it's done right.


Same. I highly doubt they signed Brock with the intentions of doing 1 match with Cena on a throwaway PPV and then 2 HHH matches without ever doing a Taker match. If I had to guess I'd say Taker was always the end game for Mania and HHH and Cena were the destination matches. It just strikes me as nuts to have Brock Lesnar at your disposal and then go and choose CM Punk for a streak match. It makes no sense lol which is why I don't think it's happening. Like I said before, they aren't _that _stupid


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Starbuck* nailed it. Orton's feuds have been utter shite but he's not alone in that respect. Standard feud these days is guys wrestling on raw, tag match sometime before the PPV, interfering/commentating on the opponent's match and maybe a staredown. No promos, no backstage fight, no heated verbal exchange, no clear progression beyond a wrestling match. Del Rio and Orton began feuding with Orton pinning Del Rio, it ended with Orton pinning Del Rio. Never did the feud feel like it progressed or went anywhere in the 6 weeks they were feuding.



Brye said:


> Would like to see Orton/Lesnar, even if it's heel/heel. Make it absolutely brutal, plz.


I can't imagine Lesnar being allowed to do much at all to Orton. Isn't he still carrying a number of potential injuries, hence why he's all but slowed his style down to preserve his body? I'd sooner see Bryan face Lesnar aside from Cena. Play it up as technique vs skill, have Lesnar massacre Bryan and tease Bryan pulling out a win. He works wonderfully against monster opponents and he's got the offence to pose a credible threat to Lesnar, though I wouldn't have him pick up the win.



Choke2Death said:


> I disagree. If Orton gets a change in character and moves away from this Viper shit, he'll be pretty good since his mic skills are not bad and he's the most charismatic guy on the roster after Cena (not including Christian since he's more often away than not). For his wrestling, I think he's always been great except when he was getting started and around 09 when he had that super methodical style. He's still the best choice after Cena from the full-time roster when it comes to "dream" matches.


Ehh I don't see this innate charisma in Orton at all, especially against someone like Punk who's far better at working a smarmy douchebag heel character to really make the crowd want to see Rock kick his arse. Time for Orton/Rock was back in 04-05 when Orton was at his peak as a future superstar who thought he was the dogs bollocks and who needed to be given a smack. Orton's style is the drizzling shits and I really don't see him as this megastar crowds will be dieing to see interact with the likes of Rock and Lesnar. He's over in the arenas but that's about it and there's just very little you can do with him as a character to make a feud work. At least someone like Punk has the chip on his shoulder to bring some heat and spice to a program, and he'll always have that Indy following that will make a lot of guys consider him going up against one of the company's all time greats a special sight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SANTA GAME said:


> It's still crazy to me that Orton's only 32 or whatever he is and look at his career already. Mad.


He's also extremely talented so if anyone deserves it, it's him. That's also why I laugh at his dumbass haters who will always go "LULZ HIZ IRRELEVENT!!!11" as if it means a damn thing. Stone Cold was irrelevant in 2002 and when looking back, he's still one of, if not the greatest of all time.

And I have given up hope on Cena ever turning heel.



> Ehh I don't see this innate charisma in Orton at all, especially against someone like Punk who's far better at working a smarmy douchebag heel character to really make the crowd want to see Rock kick his arse. Time for Orton/Rock was back in 04-05 when Orton was at his peak as a future superstar who thought he was the dogs bollocks and who needed to be given a smack. Orton's style is the drizzling shits and I really don't see him as this megastar crowds will be dieing to see interact with the likes of Rock and Lesnar. He's over in the arenas but that's about it and there's just very little you can do with him as a character to make a feud work. At least someone like Punk has the chip on his shoulder to bring some heat and spice to a program, and he'll always have that Indy following that will make a lot of guys consider him going up against one of the company's all time greats a special sight.


Why do you keep talking about Punk? I never made a comparison between them or anything. With that said, I still find Orton in OVW more entertaining than Punk at his best but that's beside the point.

Orton, even today, would be a great opponent for The Rock. It's not like anyone in the roster has anyone "dying for an interaction" with the part-timers that bring in the money for PPVs.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit Bryan/Lesnar would fucking OWN if they booked it right. Let it be a real david/goliath match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK/Bryan would be fucking awesome. I'd also like to see BROCK/Dolph just to see Ziggler sell Lesnar's offense :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

They need to do a Brock/ZACK GOWAN rematch plz. More stretcher flinging off the ringpost :lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Why do you keep talking about Punk? I never made a comparison between them or anything. With that said, I still find Orton in OVW more entertaining than Punk at his best but that's beside the point.


I'm comparing what both to bring to a respective program and why I can't see how people (not necessarily you) can talk about Punk being irrelevant and overshadowed next to Rock but still cling to Orton being some sort of hot commodity that they're missing out on booking. Punk brings more to the table in the ring, via promo and in his character. He's a far smarmier guy and someone Rock can play off of well, he can work a match as a heel expertly and play to Rock's strengths and most importantly he has the edge in his promos that can produce an intense and interesting feud.

This is clearly you not caring for Punk as much as I don't care for Orton tbh. I'd say career to career Punk wipes the floor with Orton, though 04-06 Orton is probably better from a character standpoint to anything Punk has done except for the Summer of Punk in 05 and the 09 heel turn. Babyface wrestler goes to Punk and career wise he's a far better heel worker than Orton, though again peak Punk as a heel worker vs peak Orton would be a far greater discussion, since Orton's one of the highlights of the past decade in that brilliant 2 year run as the Legend Killer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> You see this I have to disagree with tbh. This moment was everything to do with Triple H. Jericho could have been anybody, Taka, Rikishi, Kane, whoever. The real reason those fans popped like crazy was because somebody had finally beat HHH for the title. Jericho was over big time and it got a great response because it was him but he really could have been anybody who was over at that time and those fans would have lost their shit regardless. I'm talking in general terms here. Of course if you mark for Jericho then it was everything to do with him but generally speaking, *that pop and reaction had way more to do with people hating HHH than loving Jericho/whoever else it could have been who got that spot.*


Outlandish. Of course Jericho being loved had something to do with that. Jericho was mad over. HHH was a great heel that they wanted to see toppled. Badda boom, badda bing, big pop. Wasn't only Triple H. That's just dumb to claim.


Orton's charisma has never been high. Even during his Legend Killer phase. No way he can even be grouped next to Cena. That's baffling. Over Punker is perplexing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, not sure when "Orton has tons of charisma" has ever been a correct phrase.

Cody, Starbuck/myself wasn't giving full credit to Hunter, but we're saying that the huge pop of Jericho beating HHH would've been just as big if it had been any other over star at the time. People just wanted to see HHH get beat.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Outlandish. Of course Jericho being loved had something to do with that. Jericho was mad over. HHH was a great heel that they wanted to see toppled. Badda boom, badda bing, big pop. Wasn't only Triple H. That's just dumb to claim.


I never said that it didn't. I said that it being Jericho made it that much sweeter because he was over and had that connection with the fans but like I also said, Jericho could have been Taka or Rikishi or Kane or a Hardy or Scotty 2 Hotty or whoever else and the place still would have exploded like that because the pop was primarily for the fact that HHH lost rather than wrestler X won. Nothing dumb or outlandish about it tbh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't necessarily agree about anybody beating HHH would've produced that insane pop. Rock? Sure. Austin? Sure. Maybe Taker as well at the time (though he wasn't back yet if I recalled). But besides them, I don't think the pop would've been anywhere near as big as if just anyone happened to beat HHH. I think HHH being beat had something to do with it, but Jericho being as popular and charismatic as he is/was had just as much to do with it. I think it's foolish to claim that gigantic pop was mostly down to HHH losing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Have you seen Taka/HHH? Midcarders were over as fuck back then. HHH made Taka look amazing, and like he actually had a shot of winning. Tell me that if it had been Taka instead of Jericho, that the crowd wouldn't have gone apeshit.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Have you seen Taka/HHH? Midcarders were over as fuck back then. HHH made Taka look amazing, and like he actually had a shot of winning. Tell me that if it had been Taka instead of Jericho, that the crowd wouldn't have gone apeshit.


Not like they did with Jericho. There would've been a big pop, but not anywhere near what Jericho got.

Of course it's all speculation and that's all we can do. Fact is Jericho got the pop, and it's definitely up there as one of the biggest of all time.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Why? When he fought Taka the place lost their shit at the possibility of him losing the title. When he fought the Brawler and actually got beat people lost their shit because he actually lost the match. People wanted him to lose that thing so badly they would have popped if fucking Harvey Wippleman took it off him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They did go apeshit when Taka almost won. I mentioned that match pages back when, *GASP*, I was putting over Triple H.

I don't agree with the claim that it had to do more with Triple H during that time. Replace Triple H with any other heel during their highest point around that era of wrestling and it would be the same thing. It's a two way street if someone wants to claim all aspects on one wrestler.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Moot point I guess, since there's no way to prove it other than to look at crowd reactions of his other matches during the time period when people would've given anything to see him lose to ANYBODY. Oh well.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Replace HHH with any heel? How does that work? There weren't any better heels at the time...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At any time during that era. Aka meaning when wrestling was at a peak. Didn't mean only the early part of 2000.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Replace Triple H with any other heel during their highest point around that era and the response would have been the same? OK. Kurt Angle? Don't think so. Chris Benoit? Don't think so. Later in the year, Rikishi? Don't think so. Edge/Christian? Don't think so. Anybody else? Don't think so. Why? Because people didn't hate any of those guys anything close to the level they hated HHH and wanted him to lose the title. That's why on that particular night, with that particular crowd and with the way they led into the title stipulation getting added in before the match, it could have been anybody other than Jericho and they still would have popped because somebody finally took the title off HHH. Jericho is the replaceable body in this scenario, not HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't realize "around that era" only meant the year 2000. Oh damn. My point is crushed.

:lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> I'm comparing what both to bring to a respective program and why I can't see how people (not necessarily you) can talk about Punk being irrelevant and overshadowed next to Rock but still cling to Orton being some sort of hot commodity that they're missing out on booking. Punk brings more to the table in the ring, via promo and in his character. He's a far smarmier guy and someone Rock can play off of well, he can work a match as a heel expertly and play to Rock's strengths and most importantly he has the edge in his promos that can produce an intense and interesting feud.
> 
> This is clearly you not caring for Punk as much as I don't care for Orton tbh. I'd say career to career Punk wipes the floor with Orton, though 04-06 Orton is probably better from a character standpoint to anything Punk has done except for the Summer of Punk in 05 and the 09 heel turn. Babyface wrestler goes to Punk and career wise he's a far better heel worker than Orton, though again peak Punk as a heel worker vs peak Orton would be a far greater discussion, since Orton's one of the highlights of the past decade in that brilliant 2 year run as the Legend Killer.


Well, I find Orton to be a simply better talent so I'm infinitely more interested in him taking on another favorite like The Rock rather than Punk, who I find as much entertainment in as snails racing.

As for career comparisons, I don't even know how they can compare. Orton is head and shoulders above Punk. Whether it's achievements or match-list. I just can't take Punk seriously as anything other than the loudmouth heel getting his ass kicked. He's an AWFUL babyface (not that Orton is much better) and as a heel, he can only be a trash talking asshole, which is him playing his real personality. Wrestling wise, Orton is MUCH more athletic and interesting. Punk's wrestling feels choreographed to the bone. He's _very_ sloppy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Well what do you expect when you say that lol? Around that era means the AE, no?

EDIT - We killed the thread lol. In other news, did I read it right that the Ryback/Hell No vs. Shield match at TLC will actually be a TLC match decided by pinfall or submission lol? I could swear that I read that somewhere and I'm wondering if it's actually true.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> Well what do you expect when you say that lol? Around that era means the AE, no?
> 
> EDIT - We killed the thread lol. In other news, did I read it right that the Ryback/Hell No vs. Shield match at TLC will actually be a TLC match decided by pinfall or submission lol? I could swear that I read that somewhere and I'm wondering if it's actually true.


100% true, as odd as it sounds.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

SANTA GAME said:


> Well what do you expect when you say that lol? Around that era means the AE, no?
> 
> EDIT - We killed the thread lol. In other news, did I read it right that the Ryback/Hell No vs. Shield match at TLC will actually be a TLC match decided by pinfall or submission lol? I could swear that I read that somewhere and I'm wondering if it's actually true.


Team Hell No/Ryback vs The Shield will be a TLC match where the winner will be determined via pinfall or submission.

:russo


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aw shit. I thought I may actually look forward to a Ryback match before that. A six-man tag seems like the perfect setting for him. Bryan eats the beating from the FCW guys and when it's time he tags Ryback in and Ryback wipes the floor with the three of them. He wouldn't have to sell for anybody (which he sucks at anyway) and would just mow people over before the FCW guys can cheat to win or something. They're throwing a TLC gimmick on it? C'MON. 

I'm guessing Cena/Ziggler will main event the show. I hope Dolph isn't too reckless. Motherfucker will cripple himself.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

fpalm Why don't they just make it a table match instead of TLC then? Why in God's name would anybody in the match go up a ladder if there's noting to reach for when they get to the top? Fucking stupid. I thought to myself when I read it that there was no way it could be true. Ha. A TLC match with nothing on the line and the winner decided by pinfall. Jesus Christ lol.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

SANTA GAME said:


> fpalm Why don't they just make it a table match instead of TLC then? Why in God's name would anybody in the match go up a ladder if there's noting to reach for when they get to the top? Fucking stupid. I thought to myself when I read it that there was no way it could be true. Ha. A TLC match with nothing on the line and the winner decided by pinfall. Jesus Christ lol.


Yeah, ladder will only be used as a weapon I guess, pretty damn dumb.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Could you imagine if Vince threw us this GIANT curveball. What if the last two matches on the card were Sheamus/Show & Cena/Ziggler. Sheamus/Show happens and whoever wins it, Ziggler cashes in on and wins the strap. Then Teddy Long comes out and says Ziggler has to defend the belt right now, and loses it to Cena. Could you imagine that shit? haha


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Then Cena/Rock at the Rumble for the title and Punk faces the winner/Triple Threat at Mania?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well Rock said he would face whoever the _WWE_ Champion was. So I think Punk/Rock would still happen as long as Punk's back and healthy in time. IF they did pull that kind of stint, no clue who Cena could defend against. Ziggler or Show? Ryback?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Ah I always get the two world titles mixed up, speaking of that a Cena/Rock II World Title Unification at Mania would be crazy.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really wish they would find something to hang from the ring for the six man tag. It sounds really fun but it's gonna be ruined by the ladders if people are climbing for no reason. I think this is a big match that will give people a first impression on the Shield guys.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Match REALLY shouldn't be happening. Either The Shield is D.O.A like Nexus , or Ryback's momentum is completely fucked ...

Let's hope it's the second one unk2 :cena2

I don't know about you guys, but if Ryback ever takes over the reigns as the face of the company, It'll be a Jeff Hardy situation for me where I stick to that classics and that's about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Could you imagine if Vince threw us this GIANT curveball. What if the last two matches on the card were Sheamus/Show & Cena/Ziggler. Sheamus/Show happens and whoever wins it, Ziggler cashes in on and wins the strap. Then Teddy Long comes out and says Ziggler has to defend the belt right now, and loses it to Cena. Could you imagine that shit? haha


Believe that idea was tossed out on here with the chance that Cena has at capturing the briefcase.

I have no gripes with the Shield match being a TLC via pin or submission. Ladders are gonna be weapons. It's been done in other promotions. I never had a problem with it granted the basis of a Ladder match IS to reach for something. Meh. It's got Danielson, Black, & Ambrose in it. I'm sold on pure excitement.

Can't see it hurting Ryback either when Shield take the W over one of the members in Team Hell No.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only way Ziggler-Cena main events is if Cena takes the briefcase or it's for the title honestly. They would NOT have Ziggler go over in the main event of a PPV IMO, not yet. If Sheamus-Show goes on last than 1. It'd be awesome and they'd definitely deserve it for having such a compelling feud , and 2. Pretty much a guran-damn-tee that Cena loses to Ziggler.

Even though Punk isn't performing, I always buy TLC with my fiends because it's the first time we're all together when the semester's over. Probably the overall funnest show of the year for me, although no Punk is making me sad  

Orton will probably be shoved in a random tables match with Del-Rio or something , they REALLY need to get his character some direction, he's just SCREAMING Heel turn or post Mania feud with Punk on this one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, seriously a random Orton/Del Rio tables match could actually happen. :lol

Those guys are SOOOOOOOOO lost right now.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The 6-man TLC match has potential. My bet is that DB takes the fall for his team and that protects Ryback.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck WWE and their mistreatment of Daniel Bryan. The guy should honestly be where Ziggler is now, feuding with Cena right before Mania season. Methinks that WWE realized that they needed a better multi-man match at Mania to get more guys onto the card (realizing how Team Teddy vs Team Johnny Sucked) and are planning on having HELLNO/Primetime Players/International Airstrike/CoBro in some sort of elimination/Ladder match while having Cara/Mysterio on the card as well. 

Or atleast I hope that's the case, even though Bryan is currently above the Tag Division.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Yeah, seriously a random Orton/Del Rio tables match could actually happen. :lol
> 
> Those guys are SOOOOOOOOO lost right now.


:lmao

Del Rio has been lost since like last October. Orton is just about the same although I had fun watching the Kane feud.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Good enough for Del Rio..... The useless prick :lol

Seriously, it seems that all Del Rio does is wrestle good/subpar but not great matches, it's kind of strange. THEY GAVE HIM THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP FOR FUCK SAKES. It honestly looks like he'll be a "filler" guy for a while, they'll probably stick him in a 8 month long feud with Ryback after Mania that'll be the worst feud ever devised by the Mcmahon-Helmsley corporation ....

I mean, seriously... WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH ALL OF THOSE GUYS NEXT YEAR ? Don't ANY of them get pissed that potentially four part timers will be headlining Mania this year (in diff matches of course) more than likely? HEY, there's a fun game.....

- Triple H
- Undertaker
- The Rock
- Brock Lesnar

Let's just say WWE puts these four part-timers in four seperate matches @ Mania , who would you love to see their four opponents be (I know it's not realistic btw :lol ) ?

- Triple H / Rey Mysterio
- Undertaker / Randy Orton
- The Rock / CM Punk
- Brock Lesnar / Daniel Bryan

EPIC MANIA OMG :hhh :cena2 :brock unk2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fantasy booking would say:

Triple H vs. Dolph Ziggler
Brock Lesnar vs. Sheamus
The Rock vs. Randy Orton
The Undertaker vs. Daniel Bryan

Thus leaving:

CM Punk vs. Seth Rollins (makes no sense but I wanna see it)
John Cena vs. Mark Henry
Christian vs. Dean Ambrose
Antonio Cesaro vs. Rey Mysterio (WOW)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hm, those four I'd say:

Undertaker vs. Cena
Rock vs. Punk
Lesnar vs. Ryback
HHH vs. ... fuck I don't care. 

Okay, if I had to decide someone for HHH, give Punk to HHH, Cena to Rock, and Orton to Undertaker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What would be the worst case scenario for you guys going into Mania as well ? If we're talking realistics with all the big six performing, it would have to be something like this for me ;

I was gonna write something out, but the worst case scenario for me would include two simple factors ;

- Cena-Rock II for the title
- Punk or Lesnar being jobbed out to Ryberg

I don't really care about I if we get HHH-Brock & Punk/Taker or HHH/Punk & Brock/Taker. The second one however, would ruin Wrestlemania for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Worst case?:

Taker vs. Sheamus- Sheamus beating Taker
Lesnar vs. Cena- Cena beating Lesnar again
Punk vs. HHH- HHH beating Punk
Rock vs. anyone except Undertaker, Punk, Lesnar, or Cena and losing to them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ryback's a strange case honestly. He'll probably be in multiple world title matches throughout his career @ Mania, but I SERIOUSLY don't see him ever main eventing it unless WWE just doesn't give a single fuck anymore. My reasoning for this is because the Mania main event has never gone Sub 20 minutes in 10 years, and with guys tearing the house down every year @ Mania before the main event, how could Ryback follow that ? He would NEVER be able to do a 15-20 minute singles match in the main event of Mania.

This is the same company that put the fucking JIZ in the Mania main event though, so I don't fucking know what they'll do in the future TBH. Miz never had the same conditioning issues as Ryback however.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Worst case scenario by far would be Cena/Rock II. If it's 'Once in a Lifetime' and you put a damn 3 disc dvd out for it, you better not do it again. Ryback needs to be fuckin dropped from the card completely.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Worst case scenario by far would be Cena/Rock II. If it's 'Once in a Lifetime' and you put a damn 3 disc dvd out for it, you better not do it again. Ryback needs to be fuckin dropped from the card completely.


:kane DAT'S DAT SHIT I DOOOO LIKE !

Couldn't have nailed it any better myself. If WWE knew they were doing Rock-Cena II they would have waited and put out a "Greatest Rivalries" DVD instead of 'Once of a Lifetime'. Ryback really DOES need to stay off the card and go tear an ACL or something :lol

On an unrelated note, I have a serious question....

Was this forum ALWAYS full of Rock dick-riders who claim him as their lord, savior, and subsequent GOAT , or did it just happen when he came back in 2011 ? For people who claim to be "smarks" , they're probably the most ignorant pack of Wrestling fans I've ever experienced in my life, including people who still think "blading" means smearing ketchup all over themselves.

If blading is ketchup, that explains why Flair is dead broke.

DAT TOMATO MONEY :flair


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

My best case:
Punk vs HHH 
Brock vs Undertaker
Cena vs. Rock II

Perhaps:
Ryback vs Ziggler (or Big Show) WHC

There are very few credible heels left. I recognize that orton would have to turn but I think that's on the horizon anyway. 

What I think we will get:
HHH vs Brock II
Rock vs Cena II
Punk vs Ryback IV WWE
Ziggler vs Sheamus vs Big Show WHC


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Was this forum ALWAYS full of Rock dick-riders who claim him as their lord, savior, and subsequent GOAT , or did it just happen when he came back in 2011 ?


Nah, I don't remember seeing as many blind Rock marks before he returned in 2011. After that they just swarmed in here as their God returned.

I mean, I thought I was a Rock mark, but some of these posters make me feel like I'm a Rock hater in comparison.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd rather the Miz be in the main event again than Ryback. Who knows he might get good, though. I just hate how protective they are with him. And how he no-sells a beating. After not selling that beating well in the first place. And he's boring on offense after two minutes. And his catchphrases stink. And his face is annoying. And I hate him. Big sack a shit.

The Rock fans are out of their mind. Not everybody who favours the Rock, obviously, but there are some that just seem to have been hypnotised or something. I can't go in that GOAT thread any more, I just can't do it. There are some good posts in there but it's weighed down by those Dwayne nuts. This can't be mere fandom. It's obsession. They spend like hours and every single post on this site talking about the Rock (though this thread isn't much better w/ HHH :lmao). At this point I think they genuinely want to live inside his body and just BE part of the Rock. 
---

Finally watched Regal v Ambrose. Shit is great. William Regal just shows up at any point looking like one of the best wrestlers in the world. I gotta see some of his Goldust matches from 2009-2010 again because Goldust was fantastic then as well. Middle-aged veterans having great matches is one of my favourite things in wrestling.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

This forum in 2011 when rock returned began the overflow of rock marks. It's just become worse and worse over time, especially when the forum became obsessed with ratings, and how that completely determines how talented somebody is..... :argh:

Plus think about the main age of this forum, the main users of this forum are people who watched wrestling growing up in the attitude era. So of course their views will be skewed towards the big stars of that era like the rock. 

Now onto Ryback, I don't think WWE can put Ryback in a 20 minute match with his obvious conditioning issues and the fact that he's a horrible worker. He's been pushed so quickly and the fact that in every match he's been in that's over 5 minutes has been below average, even when facing the best heel worker on the roster in punk is very telling about Ryback and how awful he is.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol at us Trips marks

Seriously though, I honestly feel as if this should be the "Official" GOAT/DVD/SHOW/MATCH discussion thread while we let the Dwayne fanboys have their own little column to discuss which movie they feel Rock's nuts look better in. Yesterday they were looking over his movie stills and basically talking about how they want to bang him, I'm dead fucking serious about that.

We're actually starting to get a fucking TON of uneducated Austin marks that flock to the GOAT thread as well. I'm not as angry at them because in my mind, Austin can make a claim to being one of the greatest all-around talents ever.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The GOAT thread is like the ratings thread on crack. The GOAT thread turned from who is the best overall talent, then it turned into who was your favorite in the attitude era. Because we all know that wrestling never existed before the AE unk2
Arguments are made in that thread based off look, drawing ability, and reactions. 

Austin, Triple H, and Taker were the three best of the AE in my opinion. Total packages as wrestlers


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The GOAT is the one who sells the most clothes, duh!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The GOAT thread was the best thing to happen to this forum. Keeps all the retards locked away in one place .


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

......


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Why do you guys even go to the GOAT thread? :lol

It's a fucking joke and has turned into another Austin vs Rock debate over who sold the most t-shirts or who drew in the most number of fans into an arena. (as if they went and asked every single fan why they're there)

To go back to the WM29 debate:
(Four part timers in four different matches)
Triple H vs Rey Mysterio
Undertaker vs John Cena
The Rock vs Randy Orton
Brock Lesnar vs Sheamus

Worst case:
Punk in the fucking main event... WINNING. UGH, that would give me nightmares and would probably permanently move me away from current day WWE. I've already stuck to the classics for over 6 months now by watching 2003, 04 and now 05, but I've still kept up a bit and read results and even checked out the occasional shows here and there. But if Punk main events WM and actually WINS, I might throw up. Or maybe, I'll turn my stream off right before it's ME time.

That's really it for the "worst case" to me. Nothing else bothers me as much, whether it's The Rock vs Cena II or Ryback getting a push.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Triple H vs Rey? That sounds interesting.. I've kinda've always wanted to see a match between the two.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Eulonzo said:


> Triple H vs Rey? That sounds interesting.. I've kinda've always wanted to see a match between the two.


Yeah but not on the biggest stage of them all. Triple H vs Rey Mysterio just doesn't scream Wrestlemania. Heck, it doesn't even scream Over The limit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Finally watched Regal v Ambrose. Shit is great. William Regal just shows up at any point looking like one of the best wrestlers in the world. I gotta see some of his Goldust matches from 2009-2010 again because Goldust was fantastic then as well. Middle-aged veterans having great matches is one of my favourite things in wrestling.


The dissection of the arm by Regal gives me chills. Ambrose sells like a BOSS. FAN-FREAKIN-TASTIC match. (feels like something Don West would say. Fitting as I've watched a crap-ton of TNA today)

Worst case scenario for me when it comes to WrestleMania is is Mysterio vs Sin Cara goes down. Waste of time. Mysterio is broken down and Sin Cara isn't the kind of guy right now who would do that situation any favors.

No interest in Brock vs Triple H II or Cena vs Rock II either. The former b/c, meh, I'm lukewarm since I didn't care for the original bout. Would rather see Brock duke it out vs someone new. The latter is obvious. One match was enough. Considering it was billed as "Once in a Lifetime". Not Twice in a Two Year Span.

Believe I brought it up as random fan talk with The Reindeer Killer that Triple H working vs Bryan Danielson would please me. It's big for Danielson and gets Triple H vs a completely fresh opponent. PLEASE.

Wouldn't be a Choke2Death post if he didn't use negative hyperbole on CM Punk having success at WrestleMania. Even though it would be plenty fitting after the year he's had.



sharkboy22 said:


> Yeah but not on the biggest stage of them all. Triple H vs Rey Mysterio just doesn't scream Wrestlemania. Heck, it doesn't even scream Over The limit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Triple H/Rey screams that it needs to happen, imo. The bits and pieces we've seen between them in '06 at RR and SNME were too good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM dream card for next year:

Undertaker Vs Brock

or

Undertaker Vs Punk
Brock Vs Rock

Honestly, if Brock is tied up with Undertaker, the rest of the guys (Punk, Cena, Rock, HHH etc) just don't appeal to me in matches against each other. So if Undertaker and Punk are together, I'd at least like to see Brock murder Rock for 20 minutes. And again I don't really care for any combination of who is left. Maybe Danielson could work with basically anyone else who is left over, but WWE just don't seem to want to use him right despite the fact he's over as FUCK with the crowd.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If HHH can work Sheamus 3 months after he made it to Raw at Wrestlemania, he can certainly work Mysterio at Wrestlemania. It doesn't even have to be a 'main event, just a match that probably headlines the midcard and makes the lowercard more appealing instead of relying on the main events to sell the show. I agree the time to really book a feud between them has long past (2005-2008), but I'd certainly be interested to see what they could do. Though HHH wouldn't work heel at this point in his career and that really does remove a lot of intrigue in the match.

Mysterio should work Cesaro over Cara, all day every day. If they're smart they'll keep the belt on Cesaro and try to slowly build him up and then give him a big Mania win and then see where he goes from there after. The midcard belts mean bugger all in today's WWE so its not like he can't amass an 8 month reign or more without people realising given how little storylines or promotion he gets outside of his wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what Mysterio's role should be within the company now if he's gonna continue to work. Only be used for the promising matches. He was meh all year long until his match vs Danielson. Something noteworthy. A total dream match too. Put him in the ring vs a wrestler the level of Cesaro and it's much of the same. Only it has that excellent x factor of Cesaro + junior heavyweight = stellar chemistry. Putting him in the ring with the greatest high flyer in North American history, yeah, it's gonna be worth seeing. Even with Rey being banged up at this point.

It won't happen, yet the Triple H vs Rey Mysterio match should be one of those bouts given to fans for the hell of it. One final go in the ring before either of them decide to hang it up for good.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If they didn't want to do it at Wrestlemania I'd consider it a match that could really work as a Summerslam 'semi main event'. They've really needed to work harder in recent years to make Summerslam as big an event as they try to sell it as, and putting on matches which could be held at Wrestlemania on the card would be a definite improvement.

Aye I'm well aware of how well Cesaro works as a base against smaller wrestlers. He's competent enough in the chain wrestling to hang with them, has the agility and endurance to work quicker paced matches and has the brute strength and varied offence to really come off as a dominant beast when working against a much smaller opponent. Throw in Mysterio being an all time great at selling a workover and building to his comeback and making the little things matter in the greater context, and they'd do really well to fuck the match up.

Cesaro/Christian, Cesaro/Mysterio and Cesaro/Bourne make it happen WWE. No-one really gives a damn about the midcard so you might as well throw us some matches that should steal the show once in a while. He's facing R fucking Truth again at TLC for god knows what reason. The only build its had is a tag team match on Main Event and a match 2 weeks ago on Smackdown that barely anyone will probably remember by the time the match arrives.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even without the heel vs face dynamic of a Triple H vs Mysterio match it would increase interest & sell tickets for Summerslam. Bill it as "the biggest match to never happen...till now" kind of thing and there you go.

Cesaro vs Bourne is a must. I want Bourne back now. Solely just to work vs Cesaro. More vs Christian is obvious. I about marked as hard as I could for their first match, which only got 4 minutes. Made the post a few days ago, but can you imagine what it would be like with 10 or more? Psychology, flow, action would be off the charts. 

Dream match for me currently with Cesaro is locking him up with WWE Developmental talent PAC. Idr his new WWE name atm, although the moment he gets called up they MUST put him in the ring vs Cesaro. ASAP. I need it done on a mainstream level. Their chemistry is absurd in terms of awesome big man vs smaller man matches. It's unbelievable.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cesaro is really coming along now. Seems to be picking up some steam.

Where the FUCK is Bourne? :lmao


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Bourne broke his foot in about 1000 places last year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember he broke his foot but I figured by now he might be good. Unless he's still hitting dat synthetic weed.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah its a shame Bourne is a reckless pothead and cursed injury wise. From a purely selfish point of view I'd hope he gets a consistent midcard push because there's no-one better than him in terms of filling the inevitable Mysterio vacuum. He's agile but also a smart wrestler who bumps and sells like a champ and has gotten really good at mixing up and adding depth to his matches. Bemuses me that people can label him a spot monkey simply because of his aerial offence when there are far more people with less 'high risk' offence that throw moves out for no reason and with little sense of timing and pacing.

PAC's name supposedly is Adrian Neville..yeah. Sounds like something out of the British sitcom 'Bottom' tbh. I've never really seen too much of his work but by all accounts he's worked hard to become a more rounded worker who's not just blessed with pure agility. Be interesting to see how he fares in an environment where a lot of his offence will be restricted and kept to a minimum and probably only expanded on when he gets bigger PPV matches. I'm of the opinion that indy wrestlers usually fare better in the WWE style where they can build their arsenal and introduce new moves without having to find more and more outlandish and creative moves to impress the audience. The likes of Bryan, Hero, Cesaro, Bourne etc are obviously smart enough to be able to adjust to a more simplistic style without having nothing to offer offence wise: since they're all good enough talents who don't need world beating movesets to be good workers.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just a few points on the last few pages of discussion:

-Would be such a shame if we don't get Trips/Mysterio tbh. Yeah, the perfect time would have been in 2006 but even if they were just to come out and say they're having to match because they want to I wouldn't care. Trips/Bryan could be a lot of fun too.

-Last I heard Bourne was potentially getting released or something. He's been gone forever though. Who the hell knows. 

-I really like Cesaro's style but his character is what's letting him down for me. I can't get into it at all. I'd like to see him start to transition into the next phase of his character pretty soon. The quicker he moves away from generic anti-American heel #948540 the better. 

-Where the fuck is Christian anyways lol?

-Brock/Taker or GTFO plz. 

I have zero plans to do anything tonight other than sit in and do fuck all. Figure I might finally watch some wrasslin. Thoughts on which recent set I should stick in?

Elimination Chamber set
Greatest Cage matches set
Definitive Ric Flair Collection
Best of PPV 2011

Think I might for PPV 2011 but I'm still undecided lol.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

jonoaries said:


> What I think we will get:
> HHH vs Brock II
> Rock vs Cena II
> Punk vs Ryback IV WWE
> Ziggler vs Sheamus vs Big Show WHC


I think I'd throw up if they gave us that. Literally don't want to see any of those. Thankfully I can't see either of those two world title matches happening even if the BIG REMATCHES are likely.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> *Elimination Chamber set*
> Greatest Cage matches set
> Definitive Ric Flair Collection
> Best of PPV 2011
> ...


Would go with EC, imo. It never fails to entertain me. DAT 2005 ONE~!


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Just watched Kurt Angle Vs Chris Beniot RR 03 for the first time. Amazing match. ***** match no doubt.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brye said:


> Would go with EC, imo. It never fails to entertain me. DAT 2005 ONE~!


EC 2005 is my favourite Elimination Chamber match. It's simply the best one. My only complaint was that there was this dead spot late into the match. It's not that it was dead because it didn't have any "Holy shit moments" it's just that ti felt dull. Like the competitors weren't too sure what they wanted to do really. But they quickly picked up. I just freaking loved that one!

****3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with the first ever Friday Night Smackdown from 9 Sep 05. Which means JBL's main event push is finally over at last and it also means the Eddie/Rey series are done with too.

Batista/JBL (Texas Bullrope) - **1/2 (Not better than their NHB and above their TGAB snoozefest but still rather dull.)

Eddie/Rey series:
WM21 - ***
JD - ****
23/6 - ****
TGAB - ***1/2
SS - ***1/2
9/9 (Steel Cage) - ***1/2

Great series although the best matches are Judgment Day and Smackdown from June by far. Steel Cage felt a bit too short, TGAB and SS focused on the family bullshit which takes away from them and WM21 was just... underwhelming.

Also, the Orton's "Undertaker's Retirement Fund" segment was fucking hilarious. :lol

Smackdown post-05 draft > Raw 05. But maybe I just have more interest in the SD episodes since they got Taker, Orton and Benoit in the roster.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Great American Bash is the #2 match in the feud for me, ahead of Judgement Day but still comfortably behind 6/23 which tbh is likely their masterpiece given Eddie's character performance and storytelling alongside the natural chemistry.

Eddie's performance at GAB though is astounding and I can't think of too many heel performances better in company history. He's just such a sleazy, filthy and pure scumbag that its impossible not to want to see Rey kick his arse. Bit where he gets crotched on the ropes and you see him immediately adjusting his tights to relieve himself of the pain is just the sort of creative, unique and dastardly brilliant trick that only Eddie would think to pull out in the middle of a heated war.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*RAW: The Best of 2009 - Disc Three

**Body Slam Challenge
*Big Show vs. Mark Henry - DUD
_September 7

_*No Holds Barred
*Batista vs. Randy Orton - *
_September 14

_DX vs. Chris Jericho & Big Show - *** 1/4
_October 5

_John Cena vs. Triple H - ** 3/4
_October 19_

Chris Jericho vs. Kofi Kingston - *** 1/4
_October 26_

Chavo Guerrero vs. Santino Marella - N/A (Comedy)
_November 16_

*Triple Threat Tag Team Match*
DX vs. Chris Jericho & Big Show vs. John Cena & The Undertaker - ***
_November 16_

John Cena vs. CM Punk - *** 1/2
_November 23_

*Superstar of the Year Match*
John Cena vs. Randy Orton - ** 1/2
_December 14_


*Overall Disc Score: 8/10*

- Bob Barker has to be a candidate for Best RAW Host of all time. They included the 'Price is RAW' segment on here and it's hilarious. "I'm not very good with numbers so... 1,465 American style dollars." "$1,465... for a dvd?" :lmao

- I'd like to know who decided to put the stupid ass body slam challenge on here. I personally don't wanna see two 400 pound guys grabbing each other's inner thighs 12 times in a row. Batista/Orton was a little disappointing because I thought it was gonna be a legit match but it was essentially just a squash to get Batista over in his return and to shit on Randy after losing the WWE Title to Cena the previous night 

- DX/Jericho was a quality match. Old school formula with a ton of work on Shawn's back til he makes the hot tag. Fun finish with the Steel Curtain, even though I hate the Steelers. Cena/Trips I had somewhat high hopes for but the booking and structure annoyed the piss out of me. I'll first say that Trips outworked Cena by a good bit. He scouted and countered most of Cena's signature moves, and in all seriousness, I don't think Cena hit any more than 5 different moves. Shoulder block, spinning slam, 5-knuckle shuffle, STF, Attitude Adjustment. 5 moves of doom struck big time here. For some reason in the middle of the match Cena locked in the STF, Hunter got out and hit a pedigree for a 2 count. Then... they went to commercial?Wtf? It eventually takes 3 pedigrees throughout the match to pin Cena. Odd match.

- Where did Jericho/Kofi come from? Damn good athetic back and forths contest. Kofi was booked really strong all year. Eventually leading to this:

- The November 16th episode in Madison Square Garden is pretty :mark: worthy. They included the entire brawl between Orton & Kofi, which is awesome. Yeah, that's the one where he gives Orton the boom boom legdrop through a table in the crowd. I don't care if you don't like Kofi, THAT's how you get someone over. Not only that but you got a hella fun 3-way tag with 6 hall of famers. So many intertwining stories between every guy and nonstop action. Loved that they shat on Cena postmatch and he took a tombstone. Didn't take it very well though, he was stiff as fuck.

- Cena/Punk is historically significant. Why, you ask? It's the first time ever meeting! I thought that was pretty cool myself, that I have that on dvd. Great match too. Punk looked great and got a lot of offense in, and I love how they didn't job him out to a usual Cena finish or frankly the usual Cena sequences. He had to break out something different to win.

- Streak of good segments continued with the showdown between Cena & Sheamus before their title match at TLC. That's the one where Sheamus slams Mark Cuban through a table. Ended the set with the Superstar of the Year match. Had a really exciting moment where Orton grabbed the rope for a nearfall after an AA, then he rolled outside and swung Cena out for a DDT off the apron. Looked awesome. Fuck that finish though, watching all of this makes me realize why I hated Cena so much for so long.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Overall Set Score: 7.5/10

*- This is basically how it goes. The first couple months were great. The middle months were flat. Anything after August was hot. The main reason to buy this would definitely be to have some matches that haven't been released before & to own some really good moments like Kofi's breakout & Orton's awesome heel performances. There's your pros. Here's your cons. It's NOT in HD, which kinda sucks. They sometimes show you match finishes in the month's highlights before you get to see it, which is dumb. Some things also aren't explained well or at all. For instance, we have no idea why Shawn was ever wrestling for JBL, or why he wasn't eventually.

*Best Matches on the Set

*1. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (_January 12_) **** 1/4
2. *WWE Championship - Last Man Standing: *Randy Orton (c) vs. Triple H (_June 22_) *** 3/4
3. John Cena vs. CM Punk (_November 23_) *** 1/2
4. Chris Jericho vs. Kofi Kingston (_October 26_) *** 1/4
5. *Intercontinental Championship - No DQ: *William Regal (c) vs. CM Punk (_January 19_) *** 1/4​


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Got some free time YAY!

1. Judgment Day - Triple H vs. The Rock ****3/4
2. Royal Rumble - Triple H vs. Cactus Jack ****3/4
3. Fully Loaded - Triple H vs. Chris Jericho ****3/4 
4. Summerslam 2000 - Tables, Ladders and Chairs: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz ****1/2
5. Raw Is War 2/07/2000 - Triple H, X-Pac, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn vs. The Rock, Cactus Jack, Rikishi & Too Cool ****1/2
6. No Way Out - Triple H vs. Cactus Jack ****1/4
7. Fully Loaded - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit ****1/4
8. Summerslam - Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4
9. Judgement Day - Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4
10. Backlash - Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4
11. No Mercy - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit ****1/4
12. WrestleMania 16 - Triangle Ladder Match: The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boys ****
13. Raw Is War 04/17/2000 - Triple H vs. Chris Jericho ****
14. Backlash - The Rock vs. Triple H ****
15. Raw Is War 11/20/2000 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit ***3/4
16. Backlash - Dean Malenko vs. Scottie II Hottie ****
17. No Way Out - Too Cool & Rikishi vs. Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn ****
18. No Way Out - The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian ***3/4
19. Raw Is War 08/07/2000 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit ***3/4
20. Raw Is War 11/27/2000 - Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ***1/2
21. Raw Is War 06/12/2000 - Triple H vs. Chris Jericho ***1/2
22. Raw Is War 12/25/2000 - Chris Benoit vs. Matt Hardy ***1/2
23. Royal Rumble - The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz ***1/2
24. Raw Is War 09/25/2000 - Ladder Match: The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian
25. Raw Is War 09/25/2000 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
26. Smackdown 11/16/2000 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
27. Unforgiven - Steel Cage Match: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz ***1/2
28. No Way Out - Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle ***1/2
29. Smackdown 06/08/2000 - Chris Benoit vs. Jeff Hardy ***1/2
30. Raw Is War 06/12/2000 - Chris Benoit vs. Matt Hardy ***1/2
31. Wrestlemania 16 - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
32. Armageddon 2000 - Hell in a Cell: Kurt Angle vs. The Rock vs. Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi vs. The Undertaker ***1/2
33. No Mercy 2000 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle ***1/2
34. Smackdown 02/03/2000 - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
35. Judgment Day - Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko vs. Perry Saturn ***1/2
36. Raw Is War 11/27/2000 - The Hardy Boyz & Chris Benoit vs. Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn ***1/4
37. Raw Is War 10/02/2000 - Triple H vs. Kurt Angle ***1/4
38. Raw Is War 03/20/2000 - Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho ***1/4
39. Smackdown 04/13/2000 - The Hardy Boyz vs. Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko ***1/4
40. Raw Is War 12/25/2000 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker ***1/4
41. King of the Ring - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho ***1/4
42. Smackdown 07/27/2000 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle ***1/4
43. Raw Is War 03/20/2000 - Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. The Rock ***1/4
44. Wrestlemania 16 - Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Mick Foley vs. The Rock ***1/4
45. Backlash - Edge & Christian vs. Road Dogg & X-Pac ***1/4
46. Raw Is War 04/10/2000 - Triple H vs. Taka Michinoku ***1/4
47. Smackdown 05/04/2000 - Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho ***
48. Smackdown 11/02/2000 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock ***
49. Raw Is War 05/08/2000 - Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle ***
50. Raw Is War 06/05/2000 - Triple H vs. The Rock ***
51. Raw Is War 11/13/2000 - Steve Austin, The Rock, Billy Gunn & Chyna vs. The Radicalz ***
52. Raw Is War 04/24/2000 - The Rock & Chris Jericho vs. Triple H & Chris Benoit ***
53. Raw Is War 02/14/2000 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit ***
54. Smackdown 10/26/2000 - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho ***
55. Raw Is War 12/04/2000 - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho ***
56. Raw Is War 10/16/2000 - The Rock & The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian and Kurt Angle ***
57. Raw Is War 05/22/2000 - Chris Benoit vs. Val Venis ***
58. Smackdown 06/08/2000 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Matt Hardy ***
59. Raw Is War 10/23/2000 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock vs. Triple H ***
60. Raw Is War 08/07/2000 - Triple H vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho ***
61. Smackdown: 05/25/2000 - Chris Jericho vs. Val Venis vs. Hardcore Holly ***
62. Smackdown 06/29/2000 - Triple H, Road Dogg & X-Pac vs. Chris Jericho & The Dudley Boyz ***
63. Raw Is War 02/21/2000 - Triple H, X-Pac & The Big Show vs. The Rock, Cactus Jack & Kane ***
64. Smackdown 04/06/2000 - Dean Malenko vs. Taka Michinoku ***
65. No Mercy - Steel Cage Match: Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac ***
66. Unforgiven - Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac ***
67. Raw Is War 01/10/2000 - D-Generation X vs. The Rock & Mankind and The Acolytes ***
68. Raw Is War 12/25/2000 - The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Rikishi, William Regal & Kane ***
69. Smackdown 09/28/2000 - The Rock & Triple H vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit ***
70. Smackdown 03/02/2000 - Chris Jericho & Too Cool vs. Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn ***
80. SummerSlam - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle ***
81. Smackdown 06/01/2000 - Chris Benoit vs. D’Lo Brown ***
82. Raw Is War 06/19/2000 - Chris Jericho vs. Edge ***
83. Raw Is War 03/06/2000 - Steel Cage Match: The Rock vs. Chris Benoit ***
84. Raw Is War 03/20/2000 - The Hardy Boyz vs. Road Dogg & X-Pac ***
85. Smackdown 10/26/2000 - The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz ***
86. Judgment Day - Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian vs. Too Cool & Rikishi ***
87. Raw Is War 12/18/2000 - Edge & Christian vs. The Rock & The Undertaker ***
88. Raw Is War 12/11/2000 - Tables Match: The Rock & The Dudley Boyz vs. Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian ***
89. Smackdown 02/10/2000 - The Rock & Cactus Jack vs. The New Age Outlaws ***
90. Smackdown 12/21/2000 - The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Edge & Christian **3/4
91. Survivor Series - The Rock vs. Rikishi **3/4
92. Smackdown 01/06/2000 - Triple H vs. Rikishi **3/4
93. Raw Is War 12/25/2000 - Kurt Angle vs. Bubba Ray Dudley **3/4
94. Raw Is War 09/11/2000 - The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Kane & Chris Benoit **1/2
95. Raw Is War 11/20/2000 - The Rock & Chris Jericho vs. Rikishi & Kane **1/2
96. Raw Is War 01/31/2000 - Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac
97. Raw Is War 02/21/2000 - Edge, Christian & The Hardy Boyz vs. The New Age Outlaws & The Dudley Boyz **1/2
98. Smackdown 12/14/2000 - Stone Cold Steve Austin & The Rock vs. Kurt Angle & William Regal (w/Kane) ***
99. Raw Is War 12/18/2000 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. 'Steven' William Regal **1/2
100. Smackdown 10/12/2000 - Triple H & Road Dogg vs. Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn **1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm probably the biggest mark for Benoit/Rock at Fully Loaded. Such an awesome match, would have been 5* had Foley not come out to reverse the decision.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I _like_ Benoit-Rock but I'm not exactly crazy on it as I believe that they both had better stuff in 2000 than their encounters together. As a matter of fact I'd have Benoit-Trips over Benoit-Rock.

Willing to bet that by the time mid-2013 rolls around I'll have overall negative rep. Does anybody else deal with this nonsense ? I'm honestly starting to feel that these Rock marks are trying to brainwash the rest of the forum into worshipping their Samoan God. Rock316AE negative repped me THREE TIMES IN ONE WEEK. Don't know what's worse, the fact that he takes the time out of his daily Rock-Jerk circle to red rep me, or the fact that I'm bitching about it :lol


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

^ Why are you painting every Rock fan with the same brush? I've seen you do this a lot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I apologize *The-Rock-Says* , I guess you could say alot of the same things about Punk marks like myself , but honestly for some reason or another they've been really annoying me as of late. I think the best solution would be for me to stay away from the GOAT, Rock WWE Championship, and a few other threads.

Besides, you post in here.... You can't be that bad unk2

PS: In all seriousness, what do you think of some of your fellow Rock fans ?


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

GOAT thread was such a great idea. It keeps all that shit in there. I bet the same people have had the same debates about 10 times over. 

There is a lot of good Rock fans on this board. Just like any other fanbase who marks for others. Starbuck, Green Light, Clique, Rocky Mark, Obis, admiremyclone, Choke2Death, 316AE, NearFall, Shazayum, jingle_SWAG. They are all good Rock fans. You get a few idiots like wwffans123, Th3Gr3atOn3 etc.. But EVERY wrestler fanbase is like that.


----------



## sarnobat (Dec 12, 2009)

*Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*

I was watching the Edge DVD recently and even though Edge is one of my all time favorites, I was getting a bit sick in my stomach hearing every wrestler give him compliments hoping to gain favours with the office.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You left out the biggest Rock mark of them all...

*FuckChristmas* :cena2


----------



## @MrDrewFoley (Mar 17, 2012)

*Re: Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*

Yup. Thats why it isn't worth buying them at full price. 

All except the Ultimate Warrior one. That was the exact opposite.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Jeez, he one of them over top Rock marks. :troll


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The-Rock-Says said:


> GOAT thread was such a great idea. It keeps all that shit in there. I bet the same people have had the same debates about 10 times over.
> 
> There is a lot of good Rock fans on this board. Just like any other fanbase who marks for others. Starbuck, Green Light, Clique, Rocky Mark, Obis, admiremyclone, Choke2Death, *316AE*, NearFall, Shazayum, jingle_SWAG. They are all good Rock fans. You get a few idiots like wwffans123, Th3Gr3atOn3 etc.. But EVERY wrestler fanbase is like that.


:lmao he's probably the worst.


----------



## blur (Sep 6, 2012)

*Re: Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*

You mad cuz you never got kissed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep, stay the fuck away from the GOAT thread. It's the same idiots such as BC Hunk and TheGreatOneIV (mercifully banned) that verbally ride The Rock's (or Stone Cold's in other cases) dick. The thread is both a bad and good idea. Bad because it's filled with so much garbage, good because we wont have to endure that garbage elsewhere.

As for Rock316 sending red reps... I think it's more pathetic to whine about it than him taking his time to send them. It looks like he's been bothering the fuck out of a few posters (specially Punk marks) by constantly doing it and no-selling any rant made about him. But really, he just has fun with it. Rep is serious bizness for some people in this forum and I don't understand why. But maybe that's because I'm way past the full bar and the constant -1 point reds from butthurt Punk marks does me absolutely no damage!


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Re: Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*

Some of them are. The older guys usually have better stories. More recently ones are used to put guys over. Especially the Austin & Rock DVD sets. My god it was like a 2-3 hour slurpfest.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

100 Percent agreed. He kind of IS the guy who negative repped me three times in one week for claiming that Flair is the GOAT. 

WHICH HE IS :flair

I swear he is, you disagree with me , I'll RED REP YOU !


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Cal, what do you rate the Angle/Benoit RR match?


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

He red repped you because you said that about Flair? Strange. He's a HUGE Ric Flair fan. It probably to annoy you more than what you wrote.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Speaking of Rock, I just watched Rock/Taker from KOTR '99. My gawd it was an awkward experience. I haven't see the LOD Undertaker in ages. He was fat, slow, seemingly a little uncoordinated but the match was better than I remember I gave it *** 1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for Angle/Benoit


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, he's probably just fucking with me because I'm a really easy irritated person, that smug motherfucker :lol

I'm no Cal , but I have Angle-Benoit at ***** 3/4* and #20 on my GOAT match list , Angle's second best match ever and Benoit's fourth best match ever


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

When Undertaker was with Big Show in late 99, he was very funny. He threatened to stab Cole in the face once.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> ****1/4 for Angle/Benoit


If we talking the Rumble match I gotta go *****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Undertaker/The Rock from KOTR 99, that match alone makes 99 a better year than 2012. 

No, but seriously, it was pretty decent although not up to my expectations from a match between two of the greatest. ***1/2.

And Angle/Benoit from RR03 is ***** to the fullest... just like Benoit's career!


----------



## alliance (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*

man get the Monday night wars dvd and listen to Brisco LMFAO *MUA*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Who deserves to go on last at Wrestlemania XXIX ?

Personally, I'd love for Punk-Rock to go on last , and in an ideal world we get a Punk-Rock trilogy at Rumble, EC, and Mania with Rock taking the first one, the second one having some sort of a screwy finish, and Punk taking the third and final match. 

However, I know that will never ever fucking happen so I'd love to see Punk vs Taker in a Title vs Streak match to end Mania. Or Cena-Lesnar-Rock. That would be fucking awesome, if they were co-main events I would Jizz. There's SO MANY great ways they can book this Mania...

How much do you wanna bet that they'll find some way to FUCK. IT. UP. If Brock-Taker doesn't happen it's simply because of heat , or the fact that Lesnar could potentially kill whoever he's in the ring with.

Here's an outside the box idea that would never ever happen ; Lesnar costs PUNK the title of all people and we have a Punk-Lesnar match at Mania, alongside a heel rock-face Cena match. Unfortunately that would never happen because Taker or Trips would have NOBODY to face.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No way to say what match I think should go last at WM until they announce the card. Most likely the WWE Championship match though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Even if it's Rock-Cena II ?

:cena2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Here's an outside the box idea that would never ever happen ; Lesnar costs PUNK the title of all people and we have a Punk-Lesnar match at Mania, alongside a heel rock-face Cena match. *Unfortunately that would never happen because Taker or Trips would have NOBODY to face.*


Undertaker vs Triple H, Part IV? :hhh

I know I'll sound like a broken record here but I'm fine with whatever goes last as long as Punk is not in it. Preferably, Taker/Lesnar with Rock/Cena II preceding it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well... would depend on what match Undertaker has .

I have been thinking about a possible Rock Vs Cena rematch though. Their first match was hyped up as a once in a lifetime match and they essentially went out and tried to have some big EPICZ contest between the biggest star today and one of the biggest starts of the AE. A rematch would maybe allow them to have something of a "normal" match which might suit them more. Still don't wanna see it, but I guess I gotta start thinking positive just in case .


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

My card for WM would be: Brock/Rock - Punk/HHH - Cena/Taker. No chance of that happening. 

The real card will be: Brock/HHH II - Taker/Punk - Cena/Rock II. Which sucks when you can do fresh matches and feuds. If that isn't the top 3 matches on the card, I'll leave the forum.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Undertaker vs Triple H, Part IV? :hhh
> 
> *I know I'll sound like a broken record here* but I'm fine with whatever goes last as long as Punk is not in it. Preferably, Taker/Lesnar with Rock/Cena II preceding it.


It's okay, I have a tendency to bring up HHH atleast 673 times a week so you can trash Punk all you want, even if you're 100 percent wrong about him unk2

Honestly though, it's either Rock-Cena , Rock-Cena-Lesnar , or some kind of match with Punk in it main eventing. I'd rather have Rock wrestle every match on the show than have Punk or Lesnar job to that piece of garbage Ryback 

In regards to Rock-Cena II , if they make it No-DQ and around 18-20 minutes I think it has the potential to be awesome. I really don't think Rock works well in today's WWE main event style, as evidenced by the WAAYYYY too long WM XXVIII main event (the longest singles match to end Mania besides the WM XII ironman). If Rock plugs Cena in to HIS style I think we'll get a far better match than the previous one.

One last note ; If Punk goes over Rock at the Rumble or goes over in the main event of Mania, I think it's a strong indicator of Austin's return. I know it's been beaten to death by now, but the only way Punk goes over the likes of Rock and Cena is to make him a credible threat to Austin upon his return. It's not like Punk is going to just lose at the Rumble at not wrestle a championship match in the Chamber or at Mania, something's gotta give here.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Cut the Cena/Rock II match down to 18 mintues and I think it could be really good. I wanted the Rock/Cena I to go 30 minutes. But when looking back, it should of been 20 minutes tops. Still love the ending of that match. Rock does a Rocky Mavia, Cena shows his great power 1..2...kick out. Crowd does a massive sigh of relief. Cena does his trolling that create mega heat. Rock Bottom 1..2..3. Crowd goes mad. Love it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would love the rematch going between 15-20 minutes. They can also go a bit more brawler style instead of constantly using restholds and also pull out a few more cool spots like the Crossbody this year or Cena trying the People's Elbow. Give Cena the 2007 cargo pants while you're at it and it might be a true classic. And make it a No DQ to give them a bit more freedom and it'll have the potential to be ****1/2 worthy at least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Would be nice for a little HATE~! too this time around. Not that shitty hate crap they build the feud from last time . U NAVERZ SHUW UP. YU FROOTI PABBLE.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

*Re: Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*



alliance said:


> man get the Monday night wars dvd and listen to Brisco LMFAO *MUA*


:lmao

that was baaaaaaaaaaad


----------



## Dr. Ian Malcolm (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*

The ones used to commemorate a career, guys are usually able to show how they appreciated the work / sacrifices that the individual put into the business so it tends to go that way. It kinda makes sense, particularly when the guy is done for good and there's an opportunity to acknowledge them. Is it overbearing at times? Yeah. But when a guy gave his life to this career and he retires as a great, I can see why he'd deserve it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched the Road Warriors doc and I noticed how far documentaries have fallen collectively over the past few years. I mean, this doc covered fucking EVERYTHING inside and out , whereas in the NWO doc I watched a few days ago covered the bare basics and didn't go in depth about fucking anything. Would have liked to hear some input on both Starrcade 97 and how much of a massive failure it was, and other misc shit like that. WWE documentaries for the most part just tell us what we already know anyways. Punk's DVD has been the exception this year honestly. 

Now I have to sit through two discs of Road Warrior "matches" .... GOODIE (atleast it's a step up from the NWO "match listing" :lol )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't say documentaries have really fallen over the last couple of years of anything. If anything they are way better now. We just get the odd half arsed attempt like the NWO and AE ones. Superstar sets are usually top notch (when not mostly about that crappy road to WM stuff).


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> I wouldn't say documentaries have really fallen over the last couple of years of anything. If anything they are way better now. We just get the odd half arsed attempt like the NWO and AE ones. *Superstar sets are usually top notch* (when not mostly about that crappy road to WM stuff).


I agree. I collect them. I'm short a few though. The Road Warriors is one I don't have.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Just watched the Road Warriors doc and I noticed how far documentaries have fallen collectively over the past few years. I mean, this doc covered fucking EVERYTHING inside and out , whereas in the NWO doc I watched a few days ago covered the bare basics and didn't go in depth about fucking anything. Would have liked to hear some input on both Starrcade 97 and how much of a massive failure it was, and other misc shit like that. WWE documentaries for the most part just tell us what we already know anyways. Punk's DVD has been the exception this year honestly.
> 
> Now I have to sit through two discs of Road Warrior "matches" .... GOODIE (atleast it's a step up from the NWO "match listing" :lol )


Why do you keep torturing yourself with these mediocre match listings?  Watch out for that match with Hogan & Tenryu though. Nice gem to find on a WWE DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Warriors one isn't that great imo. Might be if your a big fan of the team, but it was made around the time they were just starting to get the hang of documentaries. After the likes of Its My Yard and Monday Night Wars, but before the awesomeness of Jake Roberts and ECW.

*awaits someone to correct me and tell me it came out after Jake Roberts and/or ECW set . I can't remember exactly when it came out so I'm technically talking out my arse  *


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Is the MNW one any good?


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Wasn't Andre the first one? I don't have that either, never been a fan of Andre.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Is the MNW one any good?


I love the Monday Night Wars documentary. The match listing was ight but the doc is worth it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Monday Night Wars is a fun watch. Totally WWE Biased, but its one of my favs just for the fact it was one of my first WWE DVDs I ever owned, and probably the first documentary I owned too (WWE anyway. Had some WCW ones on VHS before that).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think I'm starting to love the pain behind these shitty DVDs actually .... :brock

I got Rise and Fall in Christmas 2004 and it was the sole reason why I started collecting DVDs, watched it a good 10-15 times and could probably recite the whole thing from start to finish 

OH that match from Japan :hogan .... That's gonna be the Savage-DDP of this set honestly I do believe. I still gotta write up my NWO review , probably just gonna say a sentence about the doc and go straight to the matches... THAT'S gonna be something to read. The reason I'm going through all of these DVDs is the fact that I'm getting a fuckload of DVDs for Christmas and I need to get through the ones I have here first , DVDs I have left to watch before Christmas (in order) :

- Road Warriors
- Superstar Collection : Shawn Michaels (already saw everything on it but whatever)
- ECW Unreleased Vol 1 (had this since August and never watched yet)
- Legends of Wrestling : Jerry Lawler and Junkyard Dog
- RVD : One of a Kind
- The Triumph and Tragedy of WCCW

Gonna drop reviews for all of these ; hopefully I can blow through this one fast because I'm really interested in the rest of them TBH.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> I think I'm starting to love the pain behind these shitty DVDs actually .... :brock
> 
> I got Rise and Fall in Christmas 2004 and it was the sole reason why I started collecting DVDs, watched it a good 10-15 times and could probably recite the whole thing from start to finish
> 
> ...


I have all those except Road Warriors and the WCCW one is very good. I hear its incomplete because the library is split up but it was a good story about the company and the Von Ericks.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> - Superstar Collection : Shawn Michaels (already saw everything on it but whatever)


Just got that in the mail today. Looks like we'll be reviewing right around the same time. (Y)


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> However, I know that will never ever fucking happen so I'd love to see Punk vs Taker in a Title vs Streak match to end Mania. Or Cena-Lesnar-Rock. That would be fucking awesome, if they were co-main events I would Jizz. There's SO MANY great ways they can book this Mania...


If you offered me those two matches right now I'd take it no question. Two MASSIVE matches to run with. Don't exactly know how Cena/Lesnar/Rock would work without a title behind it but I'm sure there's a way e.g. Lesnar costs Rock at RR and Cena comes in all white knighting? And I'd love the other world title to be Ziggler (I think there's a decent chance he'll be champ going into WM) vs a Rumble winning Bryan but that's just a dream because there's no way Orton, Sheamus _and_ Ryback are all left out of it. Fuck, those three matches plus Ryback vs Show or Henry, Sin Cara/Rey & Sheamus/heel Orton makes me want to go on EWR and book the thing. And I haven't even included Trips 8*D

The only way that can be beaten is Cena/Taker, Punk/Austin & Brock/Rock but that's just an insane hope that'll probably never come to fruition.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> One last note ; If Punk goes over Rock at the Rumble or goes over in the main event of Mania, I think it's a strong indicator of Austin's return. I know it's been beaten to death by now, but the only way Punk goes over the likes of Rock and Cena is to make him a credible threat to Austin upon his return.


I thought it'd be as a way to make him to look a credible threat to Taker. Punk to drop his title to Rock then go on to face Undertaker at WM just doesn't work in my eyes, he needs his title streak to at least look like he has a shot.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Smackdown 16/9/2005*

Rey Mysterio vs JBL - ***
- A short match between the two with a controversial finish when JBL gets his shoulder up at the same time as ref's hand hits the mat for count #3. Would have been a lot better given more time, but I expect that in No Mercy.

Undertaker vs Randy Orton - ****
- These two are just so awesome to watch in a match. Don't know what it is about Orton in 05-06, but I simply love watching his matches. He's sooooooo good. And Taker does his job just as well. The part with the fake Taker inside the casket was pretty funny but I thought Orton looked a bit too weak with the clean loss despite all the shenanigans with the ref bump and Bob's interference.

These Smackdown episodes are so awesome to watch! With all these great TV matches, I'm going to do a top 50 best matches of 05 list when I'm finished with the whole year. If it wasn't for Eddie's death and the Cena prejudice, this year would probably be a lot more fondly remembered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Is the MNW one any good?


Yeah, fun stuff. It has the Austin/Michaels vs Owen/Bulldog tag on it too as an extra. I nabbed the DVD for only 5 bucks. Worth it.



jonoaries said:


> Wasn't Andre the first one? I don't have that either, never been a fan of Andre.


Watch Andre's matches when he was able to move. He's fantastic.

Saw that Undertaker vs Rock from KOTR '99 was mentioned here. While I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Undertaker at that time, I never got into that match. It's the perfect example of why I glare at the Attitude Era for giving me crappy brawls instead of awesome matches. *1/2. It's cool from a nostalgic standpoint. I mean c'mon, Ministry Undertaker retaining his WWF Championship? I'm sold. Match is meh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like Rock/Taker from KOTR. ***1/2 for it. Prefer their NWO 02 match though, ****1/4 on last watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked it more than Undertaker vs Ken Shamrock from Backlash 1999. Oof. I know they tried to make it a MMA style bout, but damn did it flop. If it wasn't for the HIAC at WrestleMania 15 then Backlash would be the match from that year I would crap on always. :lol

Upper card matches were hit and miss for me at that time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've yet to see the Shamrock match. Might be the only Undertaker PPV match I've never seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll recommend it only on the basis of you being a mega Undertaker fan, too. Other than that...passing would be fine.

Maybe you'll like it. Who knows.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just watched Angle/Taker from NWO '06 again. Really close to full five for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Should I watch that match later tonight, Clark Griswold?

:hmm:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

You certainly should~!

Orton/Rey is a really good match too. Not as good as the April one but it tells an awesome story.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I planned on slamming through a ton of TNA stuff again, but I'll make time for Undertaker/Angle. Maybe I'll get sucked into the whole event. (also planning on a specific Puro match and maybe some downloaded ROH bouts too. LOTS~!)

Have to finish Royal Rumble 2006 too. Along with watching this week's Main Event & Impact. WRESTLING


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

What was on Main Event this week? I've missed the last couple. 

I need to catch up on TNA as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston.

So it's a mix of omg & ugh all in one.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm watching the ECW Unreleased joint specifically* 2 Cold Scorpio vs Chris Jericho*. Man this match is good. They have a lot of time to chain wrestle, pull reversals, and use some high flying tactics too. Its not very crisp but they leaving it all out there like its a WM main event, this the type of stuff we missing on WWE PPVs and TV. 

***3/4 I may stretch it later on after another viewing.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

So I watched Power Trip vs Jericho/Benoit and Austin vs Benoit SD '01 again the other day. Still both completely rule, and are the two best tv matches I've seen. I hear Rey/Eddie from 05 on SD is the best tv match ever, but I haven't watched it since it happened and don't remember it at all, so that's on the watch list at some point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio gets a ****1/2 from me.

I'd have to relive the Austin/Benoit match to compare all 3. 

Speaking of Austin/Benoit/Jericho around that time: what is the consensus on the triple threat match from KOTR 2001? I have a feeling I'm it's biggest advocate.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> *Smackdown 16/9/2005*
> 
> Rey Mysterio vs JBL - ***
> - A short match between the two with a controversial finish when JBL gets his shoulder up at the same time as ref's hand hits the mat for count #3. Would have been a lot better given more time, but I expect that in No Mercy.
> ...


I LOVE 2005, really when I got into wrestling.

I need to finish up the Punk Doc by rewatching those matches in Blu-ray (Y) then I just got ECW Blood Sport in the mail that I might pop in for the shits and giggles.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ I've loved 2005 so far. Just awesome but it really picked up after the draft.

I have yet to see Jericho/Benoit/Austin from KOTR. Is it the match where Benoit constantly held his neck and felt the pain to the point he had to take that lengthy break for surgery?



Clark Griswold said:


> You certainly should~!
> 
> Orton/Rey is a really good match too. Not as good as the April one but it tells an awesome story.


Booker/Benoit is awesome too. Such a great main event trilogy. A rewatch might bump Angle/Taker for the full 5. Absolutely loved it first time.

On the topic of NWO 06, I am planning to go back and rewatch NWO 2003. I didn't give it a fair review the first time around as I was new to this and not much of a match mark so I half-assed it. Have a feeling I'll enjoy Taker/Big Show a lot more.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston.
> 
> So it's a mix of omg & ugh all in one.


So it's safe to assume that it's in the **3/4-***1/4 range without even watching since Kofi's in it. :side:



Choke2Death said:


> Booker/Benoit is awesome too. Such a great main event trilogy. A rewatch might bump Angle/Taker for the full 5. Absolutely loved it first time.
> 
> On the topic of NWO 06, I am planning to go back and rewatch NWO 2003. I didn't give it a fair review the first time around as I was new to this and not much of a match mark so I half-assed it. Have a feeling I'll enjoy Taker/Big Show a lot more.


Forgot about Benoit/Booker. Another good match. (Y) The MNM vs Hardy/Tatanka match is really solid for something that came out of nowhere.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The triple threat at KOTR was the match where Benoit broke his neck. Final spot of the match too.

ECW Bloodsport set is :mark: imo.

EDIT ~ Pretty much, Clark. ***1/4 is too high for Kofi, though. 8*D


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> I LOVE 2005, really when I got into wrestling.
> 
> I need to finish up the Punk Doc by rewatching those matches in Blu-ray (Y) then *I just got ECW Blood Sport in the mail that I might pop in for the shits and giggles.*


I'm watching Rey vs Psichosis from that set right now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mike Awesome vs Spike Dudley from Guilty as Charged '00 PLZ.

TABLES~!


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Now watching: *Sting vs DDP* for the WCW WHC from the Best of Nitro DVD. Great match, maybe I'm just a mark for both guys but I love this match. Sting has such exciting, explosive and effective offense, he seems to be on the verge of winning everytime he goes on the offensive. DDP did a great job of working Sting over and was killing Sting with clotheslines. Mixing his offense up from brawling to methodical. 


The crowd was live for Sting, everything he did made them pop, crazy atmosphere. I really like the finishing sequence and the crowd's reaction to the finish is amazing. This is a certified classic! ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

20 minutes without a commercial too. Got to love that Turner.

Great match. DDP's heat is immense.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched The Rock vs Undertaker from No Way Out 2002. Pretty fun match for what it was. Found The Rock's super fast running during his entrance rather hilarious. Same for Taker's constant assault of referees. It's so funny whenever he goes after a ref and they run their ass out of the ring or when he actually physically attacks them. (WM17 takes the cake with that goofy elbow, lol)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Rock KOTR 99- ***1/4
Taker/Rock NWO 02- ***3/4
Taker/Shamrock BL 99- ***1/4 (Never knew about this match until a few months ago... good shit).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Shamrock = One of the biggest disappointments I ever saw.

I was insanely hyped for it too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone else enjoying Smackdown recently? I haven't been watching Raw but Smackdown has been really fun the last month or two.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last week's Smackdown rocked. First one I enjoyed in a very long time.

I might get shot for it, but RAW is a lot better nowadays too. Last few weeks have been (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only thing that was disappointing about it (Taker/Shamrock) for me was the crowd was dead. Besides that, loved the actual action, leg work by Shamrock and selling by Taker.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Last week's Smackdown rocked. First one I enjoyed in a very long time.
> 
> I might get shot for it, but RAW is a lot better nowadays too. Last few weeks have been (Y)


I haven't really been able to catch Raw. My roommates like wrestling but we usually watch footbal on Mondays.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Only thing that was disappointing about it (Taker/Shamrock) for me was the crowd was dead. Besides that, loved the actual action, leg work by Shamrock and selling by Taker.


Yep. Those fans were swerved big time. Expecting a brawl or plenty of action in the form of wrestling moves. What they got was very mixed martial arts level. Which doesn't surprise me or anyone who knows about Undertaker's love for the sport.

I thought the work they brought out was very dull. The crowd didn't do that for me. I've seen good matches with crap crowds before. So I know it was what they did in the match that completely turned me off. I marked during the start of it. Then it really dragged following. Remember the finish being abrupt too.



Clark Griswold said:


> I haven't really been able to catch Raw. My roommates like wrestling but we usually watch footbal on Mondays.


No DVR?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> No DVR?


Got DVR back home. Have a few Raws saved on it but I'm low on space because I save quite a few movies. I also have something like 40 Seinfelds saved. :lmao

I usually just end up reading the results now but once MNF season ends I'll probably get back into it full time, especially if Punk is back then.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just watched Angle/Taker from NWO 2006 for the first time in a year or so. I give it ****1/4. Good match. They both worked on eachothers leg in the beginning, which is fine, only for it go nowhere. I'm okay with that in Iron Man matches, since there is so much time to fill, but not in a regular match like this. Also was pretty surprised how dead the crowd was for the majority of the match. Only time they got loud was when they broke the announce table, and the finish sequence. Outside of that, pretty dead crowd. This was 2006, though, and it was a rather dull year for WWE. Anyways, still a good solid match. But I thought I remembered it being better. Oh well. ****1/4

Been watching alot of WWE stuff, so I changed it up alittle bit and put in the CM Punk, Summer of Punk DVD and watched the opening match, which was Punk winning the title vs Austin Aries on 6/18/05. GREAT match. They both worked their fucking ass off in this one and it showed. The crowd was on Punk's side in a huge way. Mid-way through the match, the heat picked up big time for Aries. Booing every little move he got off, from big moves to freakin' punches. I absolutely loved this match. Of course, Punk won the title and his awesome promo afterwards making fun of the fans for him fooling them was great and kicked off the "Summer of Punk." Highly recommended. ****1/2

God, I love wrestling. Today is 12/7 and keeping up with my "15 years ago today.." kick I've been on this year (being 1997, best year in wrestling IMO), I'll be watching HBK/Shamrock later tonight at D-Generation-X PPV, which was 15 years ago tonight. Not a great one by any stretch, but decent, and was Owen's first TV appearance since the Screwjob. Watching that one later tonight, might make a small review of it later.

Note: Tried to watch Smackdown, but it's so freaking brutal and kid-ish, with it's piped in noise, I decided to watch some other stuff. Wrestling on DVD/Blu Ray is so much better than 2012


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Go buy the Seinfeld's on DVD and problem solved. 

But, I'm gonna say give RAW another chance. It's hitting a fun stride again. I mean it's far from perfect or anything, although actually worth entertainment upon viewing. Lately they seem to have cut down on the segments and focused on more matches. Not all being squashes over a 3 hour span.

The segments seems to start the show and have one in hour #2 and that's it. Plus The Shield is (Y) right now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Go buy the Seinfeld's on DVD and problem solved.
> 
> But, I'm gonna say give RAW another chance. It's hitting a fun stride again. I mean it's far from perfect or anything, although actually worth entertainment upon viewing. Lately they seem to have cut down on the segments and focused on more matches. Not all being squashes over a 3 hour span.
> 
> The segments seems to start the show and have one in hour #2 and that's it. Plus The Shield is (Y) right now.


Been following The Shield stuff. (Y) Was pretty excited when I found out Ambrose & Rollins debuted. The months of September & October sort of killed me though because I really only cared about Punk, Bryan & Kane. And there was plenty Bryan/Kane stuff on SD. Same with Cesaro. I can catch him on SD too.

But I'm gonna give it another try. It's nothing like '09 Raw where I just had no interest in anything...other than MVP & Henry. :$

I'm shocked to say this but I'm really liking Miz at the moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield on RAW this week was GREAT. They're getting better with more exposure each week. I like that development.

Cesaro's best matches are happening on RAW now. Considering he's actually getting competitive bouts. Did you see his match vs Sheamus?

RAW in 2009 was pretty bunk. A few high points I liked. Matches to be more specific. I really do love that year though. RAW may have been meh, yet the rest of the entire promotion was great, imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Angle NWO 2006 gets *****. Wrestling masterpiece, crowd was good, and love the finish to it. Top 10 match for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Shield on RAW this week was GREAT. They're getting better with more exposure each week. I like that development.
> 
> Cesaro's best matches are happening on RAW now. Considering he's actually getting competitive bouts. Did you see his match vs Sheamus?
> 
> RAW in 2009 was pretty bunk. A few high points I liked. Matches to be more specific. I really do love that year though. RAW may have been meh, yet the rest of the entire promotion was great, imo.


I'm still slightly worried that we might see Ryback beat them in a 3v1 at some point and they'll just fade away. At the moment I'm really enjoying them though. Their interview a couple weeks ago was great. They're even going as far as invading Main Event too.

Damn, I didn't see Cesaro/Sheamus but I can imagine it being good. I'd love to see another Cesaro/Christian match like last Summer once Christian comes out of hiding. :side:

And completely agreed. Smackdown OWNED. ECw was must see and Superstars was just starting and had high quality stuff on a weekly basis.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> Taker/Angle NWO 2006 gets *****. Wrestling masterpiece, crowd was good, and love the finish to it. Top 10 match for me.


Agreed. Excellent match, should have happened at 'Mania like it was supposed to. WM 22 could have used that as a co-main event


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Go buy the Seinfeld's on DVD and problem solved.
> 
> But, I'm gonna say give RAW another chance. It's hitting a fun stride again. I mean it's far from perfect or anything, although actually worth entertainment upon viewing. Lately they seem to have cut down on the segments and focused on more matches. Not all being squashes over a 3 hour span.
> 
> The segments seems to start the show and have one in hour #2 and that's it. Plus The Shield is (Y) right now.


Yeah, I usually am watching around this time of year anyway, because I always order Royal Rumble. Was going to go to TLC, since it's only about 30 minutes from me, but I just can't with work the next day and the card is kind of weak. I might order it on PPV, but not sure yet. Plus, it turns out I am going to WM, because my best friend's brother works at Metlife Stadium, and he was able to score a suite. It's not free though, so we all have to throw in a good chunk of change on that. But I figure I have to go, long time wrestling fan in my late 20s, and WM is going to be literally 10 minutes from where I live and where I go pretty much every NFL Sunday (Giants fan here). Just can't miss this opporunity.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> Agreed. Excellent match, should have happened at 'Mania like it was supposed to. WM 22 could have used that as a co-main event


Crowd was good? I just watched it. It was absolutely dead outside of the announce table spot and the finish.

Edit: Ugh, I quoted the wrong comment, but you get my point. Crowd was awful for 90% of it. 5 stars is crazy. If that's 5, what is Flair/Steamboat? 10?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> I'm still slightly worried that we might see Ryback beat them in a 3v1 at some point and they'll just fade away. At the moment I'm really enjoying them though. Their interview a couple weeks ago was great. They're even going as far as invading Main Event too.
> 
> Damn, I didn't see Cesaro/Sheamus but I can imagine it being good. I'd love to see another Cesaro/Christian match like last Summer once Christian comes out of hiding. :side:
> 
> And completely agreed. Smackdown OWNED. ECw was must see and Superstars was just starting and had high quality stuff on a weekly basis.


I'm almost certain that won't happen. Shield seems to be receiving a nice push right now. Doubt WWE would completely kill it right at the start. They've owned Ryback the majority of the time as it is.

It's great. I loved it. Yep. 4th day in a row I said I wanted Cesaro/Christian to have another match. I'll bet that will be a trend to continue the rest of this week.

Even when people claim the didn't like 2009 the only negative they say is how RAW was. I know it is the flagship show and all that jazz, but come on. One program doesn't apply for the entire year. 

Smackdown in 2009 was boss. I'd still side with ECW as my overall favorite. CHRISTIAN +, Regal, Kidd, Smith, Finlay, Henry, Swagger, Burchill, Helms, & influx of new talent getting a chance to shine in the latter half like Tatsu, Ryder, & Sheamus. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I'm almost certain that won't happen. Shield seems to be receiving a nice push right now. Doubt WWE would completely kill it right at the start. They've owned Ryback the majority of the time as it is.
> 
> It's great. I loved it. Yep. 4th day in a row I said I wanted Cesaro/Christian to have another match. I'll bet that will be a trend to continue the rest of this week.
> 
> ...


I certainly hope so because I really want to see at least Ambrose & Rollins have bright futures. I haven't seen enough of Reigns yet but he seems interesting too.

The chemistry between the two was great. Have we had Cesaro/Rey? Would assume that'd be good. And I know for a fact Bryan/Cesaro would own because it's happened. :side:

I agree. Raw makes it sound like a dreadful year but in reality the other three made up for it. 

I really think WWE should've given Burchill a nice push. Was always a big fan of his work. Thought he could be a good midcard champion at least. I sort of miss Helms now too. Guy carried the CW division for like a year. I don't think he's on good terms with WWE at the moment so I don't see him ever coming back.  But goddamn Christian owned. And don't forget GOLDUST~! He had a nice little ECW run. I remember being excited every supplemental draft because it always benefited ECW with good talent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> I certainly hope so because I really want to see at least Ambrose & Rollins have bright futures. I haven't seen enough of Reigns yet but he seems interesting too.
> 
> The chemistry between the two was great. Have we had Cesaro/Rey? Would assume that'd be good. And I know for a fact Bryan/Cesaro would own because it's happened. :side:
> 
> ...


Same here. Reigns has impressed me already. Hopefully he's fairly capable in the ring.

Cesaro is legit and Christian is nuts at how well he meshes with most people. Nothing with Mysterio & Cesaro yet. I was putting that match over with some other folk yesterday. It has to happen. Danielson/Cesaro plz. Like I said last time, avoid a headlock and we'll be all good.

I miss Burchill too. I'm a fan. HELMS. Always be a mark for him. He'll never return. Almost certain of that. I'll enjoy what I got at the very least. Christian was so unreal that year. The only match of his I thought was underwhelming or not friggin awesome was vs Dreamer at Night of Champions. Which was odd since all of his other matches with Dreamer elevated Tommy to a higher level. Something about that NOC match was the opposite. One meh singles match out of an entire year though. So that's pretty amazing.

I can't believe I forgot to plug GOLDUST. AHHHH. I fail at life.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Same here. Reigns has impressed me already. Hopefully he's fairly capable in the ring.
> 
> Cesaro is legit and Christian is nuts at how well he meshes with most people. Nothing with Mysterio & Cesaro yet. I was putting that match over with some other folk yesterday. It has to happen. Danielson/Cesaro plz. Like I said last time, avoid a headlock and we'll be all good.
> 
> ...


I feel like a Cesaro/Mysterio feud could elevate Cesaro so much. Rey Rey still has tons of credibility. 

Thought Burchill was hilarious as the pirate but then he came back even better as a heel. He was sort of delegated to jobbing in ECW but his matches were still usually fun. I don't know if I ever saw Christian/Dreamer from NOC. As a matter of fact, I think I've only seen Punk/Hardy from that show. Their other matches were good though, I agree there. I found the original ECW pretty damn fun, but I couldn't be happier with how ECW turned out when it got revived. Such a nice alternative, but not the alternative everyone was expecting.

I miss the occasional Goldust match out of nowhere. Now we get it with Regal though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For as dreadful as Raw may have been in 2009, it is still a million times better than today. Add to it a much better Smackdown plus ECW and 2009 is a fine year even if Hornswoggle and the guest hosts make it look otherwise.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> For as dreadful as Raw may have been in 2009, it is still a million times better than today. Add to it a much better Smackdown plus ECW and 2009 is a fine year even if Hornswoggle and the guest hosts make it look otherwise.


I can see where you're coming from with Raw but I'd put this year above it. I just couldn't get into anything Raw was doing after March in 2009 except for some tag team stuff in JeriShow, Legacy, DX and Henry/MVP.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> I feel like a Cesaro/Mysterio feud could elevate Cesaro so much. Rey Rey still has tons of credibility.
> 
> Thought Burchill was hilarious as the pirate but then he came back even better as a heel. He was sort of delegated to jobbing in ECW but his matches were still usually fun. I don't know if I ever saw Christian/Dreamer from NOC. As a matter of fact, I think I've only seen Punk/Hardy from that show. Their other matches were good though, I agree there. I found the original ECW pretty damn fun, but I couldn't be happier with how ECW turned out when it got revived. Such a nice alternative, but not the alternative everyone was expecting.
> 
> I miss the occasional Goldust match out of nowhere. Now we get it with Regal though.


Absolutely. Mysterio might not be exactly at the level he once was at. That's life though. Mysterio proved with the right opponent he can still do something worth seeing. vs Danielson for example. Cesaro could leave that looking like a star. Already did vs Sheamus in a sense. (he lost via countout only)

Pirate Paul Burchill was probably my guilty pleasure of 2006. I loved the hell out of that gimmick. He got over too. Look at the crowd. Facts don't lie. He was a jobber the majority of his ECW stint. At least during the program vs Helms he got some wins in there. 

NOC is decent/solid. Has it's high points and it's low points. Low points being the two pathetic divas matches. Fuck me they were bad. Christian/Dreamer is oddly on the lower part of the show. It was just there. Kind of the definintion of a uneventful bout. Luckily Christian won and went on to rule the rest of the year. Granted he was ruling plenty at that point.

Excellent point on ECW being the alternative. It wasn't "EC-DUB" like it tried to be the first 6 months of it's existence. Which I do give credit to Vince for. They gave those fans a little something instead of nothing. Once Paul Heyman left it changed. That's fitting. It was meant to be the off-beat/different brand used elevate younger wrestlers without getting lost in the shuffle on the other brands. Morrison sure as hell benefited from going there. CM Punk debuting on it of course worked wonders. Got time to establish himself and get over with the fans. Matt Hardy, Mark Henry, & from a non-championship push perspective Finlay all got great rubs off the brand too. Oh, and EVAN BOURNE. Great outlet for him. When ECW become a completely new star oriented roster it was stellar. Leading the roster was Christian & Regal respectively which allowed the younger guys to follow behind in a fashion that helped everyone out. Then you had vets like Goldust (who needed it), Dreamer & Shelton all adding to the crop. Dammit I _loved _that show. That brand made someone like Yoshi Tatsu instantly credible. It's too bad what happened for him. His months on ECW were booked really, really well. They knew what they were doing there. That's the real positive I'm pointing out.

Sad when I heard Goldust departed with the company for what feels like about the tenth time. Hope there could be a window to come back. More random Regal bouts please. I'm partial of course. Idc if they happen on Superstars only either. I'll take that. His tag on Smackdown in England was quality.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Absolutely. Mysterio might not be exactly at the level he once was at. That's life though. Mysterio proved with the right opponent he can still do something worth seeing. vs Danielson for example. Cesaro could leave that looking like a star. Already did vs Sheamus in a sense. (he lost via countout only)
> 
> Pirate Paul Burchill was probably my guilty pleasure of 2006. I loved the hell out of that gimmick. He got over too. Look at the crowd. Facts don't lie. He was a jobber the majority of his ECW stint. At least during the program vs Helms he got some wins in there.
> 
> ...


Shit, I forgot about Benjamin, how the fuck did I do that? :lmao It really worked wonders getting guys like Punk and Bourne over and hell, it saved Morrison and Miz's careers, imo. Makes me rather happy that Hulu Plus which I have for the next two months has every ECW from 2008 to the end.  I liked Tatsu. He was different and pretty good in the ring. He even got the win in that WM 26 battle royal.

Would love to see Goldust back. He was in great shape before. I don't think he does Superstars much anymore but I love how they got him into the WHC feud for a little bit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clark Griswold said:


> I can see where you're coming from with Raw but I'd put this year above it. I just couldn't get into anything Raw was doing after March in 2009 except for some tag team stuff in JeriShow, Legacy, DX and Henry/MVP.


I really don't know about that. This year has just been awful from every angle. Even the only good part of it (Road to WM) isn't what it's made out to be. Rock/Cena was disappointing with all the "Dwayne" and twitter bullshit, End of an Era was the three legends cutting the same promo every week and the rest of the stuff were completely irrelevant. They were coasting in the first two months then after Wrestlemania, Brock Lesnar kept things relevant for a while before things went to shit after Extreme Rules. It's not even mindless Punk hating, I just have had absolutely no reason to care about anything this year that didn't involve part-timers. Cena/Laurinaitis/Big Show was fucking boring, Punk's love triangle with AJ and Bryan was horrendous (not Punk's fault here, the angle was just _awful_), Raw 1000 was good but Punk's heel turn was the most underwhelming choice they could have made going forward. Because the "shooting" stuff was hot for one month back in 2011. Now, instead he became a one-dimensional whiner about demanding respect and since then, it's become a one-man show. Unfortunately, the one man it's centered around has not done anything worthy of making it watchable. I really think everyone who makes the cliché "I only watch for Punk" comment is hopeless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> Shit, I forgot about Benjamin, how the fuck did I do that? :lmao It really worked wonders getting guys like Punk and Bourne over and hell, it saved Morrison and Miz's careers, imo. Makes me rather happy that Hulu Plus which I have for the next two months has every ECW from 2008 to the end.  I liked Tatsu. He was different and pretty good in the ring. He even got the win in that WM 26 battle royal.
> 
> Would love to see Goldust back. He was in great shape before. I don't think he does Superstars much anymore but I love how they got him into the WHC feud for a little bit.


We seem to forgot about these wrestlers who had gold motifs while on ECW. (Goldust & Gold Standard...bad joke?)

It made Miz's career for me. I wasn't a fan until he made his way onto ECW. After that I was sold.

Oooh. Go watch as many ECW's from 2009 as you can. I did it via dailymotion. The quality on some were questionable so your outlet is the clear winner. Glad I got to relive it though. That's the fun part.

Tatsu was cool. ECW made me care and like him. It probably could have been the same if they used any face in that situation. That's my point on how well ECW made people look credible. Everyone on there could really be considered legit to some degree. Remember VANCE ARCHER? Ok, his run wasn't much. But, seeing Hoyt for a tiny bit was still :mark: worthy for me.



Choke2Death said:


> I really don't know about that. This year has just been awful from every angle. Even the only good part of it (Road to WM) isn't what it's made out to be. Rock/Cena was disappointing with all the "Dwayne" and twitter bullshit, End of an Era was the three legends cutting the same promo every week and the rest of the stuff were completely irrelevant. They were coasting in the first two months then after Wrestlemania, Brock Lesnar kept things relevant for a while before things went to shit after Extreme Rules. It's not even mindless Punk hating, I just have had absolutely no reason to care about anything this year that didn't involve part-timers. Cena/Laurinaitis/Big Show was fucking boring, Punk's love triangle with AJ and Bryan was horrendous (not Punk's fault here, the angle was just _awful_), Raw 1000 was good but Punk's heel turn was the most underwhelming choice they could have made going forward. Because the "shooting" stuff was hot for one month back in 2011. Now, instead he became a one-dimensional whiner about demanding respect and since then, it's become a one-man show. Unfortunately, the one man it's centered around has not done anything worthy of making it watchable. I really think everyone who makes the cliché "I only watch for Punk" comment is hopeless.


I watch for CM Punk.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Crowd was good? I just watched it. It was absolutely dead outside of the announce table spot and the finish.
> 
> Edit: Ugh, I quoted the wrong comment, but you get my point. Crowd was awful for 90% of it. 5 stars is crazy. If that's 5, what is Flair/Steamboat? 10?


The Flair/Steamboat matches I really have to re-watch as it has been years... but I've gotta find the time. Had them all at *****, but I really do need to re-watch them as I honestly can't remember much about them at all. I'd put Taker/Angle above all them though from what I do remember. 

Crowd wasn't great, but it wasn't awful either. They were fine throughout, and more than fine enough to only help the match, not hurt it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> The Flair/Steamboat matches I really have to re-watch as it has been years... but I've gotta find the time. Had them all at *****, but I really do need to re-watch them as I honestly can't remember much about them at all. I'd put Taker/Angle above all them though from what I do remember.
> 
> Crowd wasn't great, but it wasn't awful either. They were fine throughout, and more than fine enough to only help the match, not hurt it.


Angle/Taker over Flair/Steamboat in '89? 

Re: crowd, different strokes for different folks  I thought they were very quiet save for the announce table spot and finish. Other than that, I was waiting for them to wake up. Ah well.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Angle/Taker over Flair/Steamboat in '89?


I do have to re-watch the Flair/Steamboat matches to fairly judge. Thing is I don't even put them in my all-time list because while I have them all at *****, I just don't know where to put them and it's been so long since I've seen them.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> I do have to re-watch the Flair/Steamboat matches to fairly judge. Thing is I don't even put them in my all-time list because while I have them all at *****, I just don't know where to put them and it's been so long since I've seen them.


Gotcha'. I would definitely watch them again. Nevermind where you rank them, but just for the pure enjoyment of watching great wrestling. They were an awesome trilogy of matches. As someone who grew up in North Jersey and pre-dominantly on the WWF while growing up, I didn't have access to watch NWA and was way too young anyway. Watching NWA stuff (especially Flair/Steamboat) on DVD years later, I wish I had been able to witness all of that while I was in my 20s.

Absolutely fantastic stuff in all 3 bouts. The first one was more of a quick-pace match (for NWA stuff, 25 minutes or so), second one was in-between (40 mintues) and a good balance of pace, and the 3rd one was a 60 minute match with some of the best mat-wrestling you will ever see. Ground-breaking stuff for the time. They did an excellent job expressing the differences in their characters through their wrestling styles in these matches. Works of art.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Their second match was the 55 minute one. Third one went around 30.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I only watch for CM Punk unk2

This fucking Road Warriors DVD man ...... Taking the life out of me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I - Chi-Town Rumble ~ ***** _(23:18)_
II - Clash of the Champions VI ~ ***** _(55:32)_
III - WrestleWar '89 ~ ***** _(31:37)_

The 2 out of 3 falls match is probably the greatest wrestling match ever produced.

Rewatch ASAP.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks guys. I always forget Wrestle War was the last one for some reason, and not COTC. Gotta get my NWA PPVs in order! Either way, great matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All three of them are in my top 7 North American matches ever, with COTC clocking in @ number two, CTR coming in @ number four, and Wrestlewar coming in @ number seven. Flair is GOD , and is probably in literally half of my overall top 25 matches ever 

Tied for the greatest chemistry between two opponents ever. I have HBK-Taker BB @ # 1, WM XXV @ # 5, and WM XXVI @ # 8 ATM (although the list always seems to fluctuate). I'll give the slight nod to Flair-Steamboat however because I absolutely fucking LOVE the hour long match from 82 or 84 that's on Steamboat's DVD. Never saw the Landover match, even though I'd probably throw ***** at it because I'm a complete fucking mark for Steamboat-Flair.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I see you prefer Chi-Town Rumble over WrestleWar too, #PHG. I'm the same. It seems like WrestleWar gets the nod as the "greatest match ever" by some which I never agreed with to an extent. I give all the full 5, but that one was my personal least favorite of the trilogy. Which says about nothing considering the level I put all 3 at. Being last in a grouping like that is saying I got the lowest A grade on a test in class according to percentages.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's like saying I'd rather drive the Porsche over the Lambo honestly (I wish I could say that  )

Wrestlewar 89 is Trips's personal GOAT match and favorite match ever according to him. He even put the fucking thing on his very first DVD back in 2002 to show everybody what his favorite match was.... Only somebody like Trips could pull that shit and get away with it. Imagine if they did that today with somebody like say...... Sheamus, and they showed us Sheamus's favorite match on the DVD as well as a few personals.

The power of the shovel is wise within this one :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All personal preference of course. WrestleWar was the blend of both Chi-Town Rumble & COTC. Which you'd think would make it the best of the 3 on paper. Clash is on a whole different level though. It's baffling how much better that match is compared to the rest of their matches. At least from my perspective. It's right up my alley. They work for 55 minutes and it flies by as if it is only 20.

THAT'S TALENT.

Knowing what are the wrestlers favorite all time matches are could be a fun sort of single disc DVD.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Great points, guys. I honestly don't know which one is the best. I can honestly say I've gone through phases of preferring each match, and after awhile it changed to a different one in the trilogy. My favorite in that trilogy has changed numerous times. It's crazy. But like you guys say, you really can't go wrong with any of them. Whichever one someone prefers is perfectly reasonable and not crazy at all because all three are so damn great.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

What did you guys think of their Spring Stampede '94 match? It wasn't on the level of their '89 trilogy, but it a pretty damn good match unto itself. I gave it ****1/4. What about you guys?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spring Stampede '94 is great. I'm at about the rating you have it. 

Bits and pieces of their '89 trilogy thrown in. Most notably the finish. Which was the callback to the COTC match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Completely forget what I gave SS 94, I had it on record on my old hard drive so eventually I'll look it up, guesstimate says somewhere between ****-**** 1/2 though. Fucking LOVE those guys together honestly .... Anybody know their top 25 matches of all time off by heart ? 

I'ma post mine if I can first get somebody else's list first :cena2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, I loved how the finish went down, kind of a salute to their COTC finish. Love stuff like that. Those guys were magic together. Agree with you guys, somewhere between ****-****1/2 for that one is reasonable. 5 years after the trilogy and they were still going strong. 

They also had a WCW Saturday Night match in 1994. I think it was just a month after Spring Stampede. Never seen it, although I know it's on Youtube. Sounds weird, but seeing a match for the first time, I need to see it on a TV first to get a good feel for it. So I've been waiting for it come out on DVD first to see it, but it never has, unfortunately.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

25 of all time? Oh damn. No way. I'd have to think for like a whole day so I know I wouldn't forget anything. My memory is excellent as far as remembering matches and results and tons of random info. Getting it down to the nitty-gritty like that would take some mad concentration for me. As idiotic as that may sound since it is all based on my opinion.

I know I could firmly say that Undertaker vs Mankind Hell in a Cell is a lock. Oh, and Flair vs Steamboat 2/3 falls obviously. I wouldn't claim it as the best match I've ever seen and not put it on my list. Let alone at number one.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm bout to re-watch a Flair/Steamboat classic right now. There are very few wrestling series where I will watch EVERY match they have and this is one of them. Malenko/Guerrero is another one where I will watch anything they do together.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> They also had a WCW Saturday Night match in 1994. I think it was just a month after Spring Stampede. Never seen it, although I know it's on Youtube. Sounds weird, but seeing a match for the first time, I need to see it on a TV first to get a good feel for it. So I've been waiting for it come out on DVD first to see it, but it never has, unfortunately.


I'm sort of the same way. I d/l something and put it on a re-writeable disc because I don't really like watching stuff on the computer. I do watch some stuff (watching something right now), but never anything that goes a long time. Last time I watched a match on my computer that went 20+ minutes was probably 2010.

The 5/14/94 Flair/Steamboat is excellent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can watch matches on youtube & dailymotion easier than I can stuff I download. Which I do not understand at all.

I'll go on dailymotion and watch an entire WCW PPV in one viewing. I'll pop on a Chikara show I downloaded and it takes me a few go throughs to finish, even though I'm loving what I am seeing. If the Chikara show was on DVD then I'd slam through those as fast as possible.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I use JDownloader to pull everything I want to see from YT/DM/wherever. Props for being able to stomach 2-3 hours of a stream site. I really don't why, but I just couldn't imagine doing that in a million years.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's how I watched the ton of ECW 2009 shows too. It doesn't register as a chore for me. Over, click new video, watch. Repeat actions.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I use JDownloader to pull everything I want to see from YT/DM/wherever. Props for being able to stomach 2-3 hours of a stream site. I really don't why, but I just couldn't imagine doing that in a million years.


Yeah, I'm the same way. Can't watch something that long on my computer. And I have a pretty good sized screen. But I need that big-screen TV experience to take in a match for the first time. I feel like if I were to watch that match (or any good match) on a computer screen for the first time, I wouldn't be doing it justice. I am a very visual person, so maybe that's part of it. I have to see that match. Might try to put it on DVD sometime this weekend.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I had to use Youtube ALOT with a few of my projects (mainly the WWE Championship, WHC, and Triple H projects) , and I've noticed something in my review style..... If I OWN it on DVD or I have a better quality copy of a match downloaded, it ALWAYS gets a better rating from me , which might fuck up my reviews as a whole. Anybody else share this common flaw in their reviewing ? This is why I own a FUCKLOAD of the WWE DVD library, so when I review matches I don't need to become stalled by the quality being abysmal.

The only time I watch wrestling on a Television is if I order a PPV, or if it's on at the gym I'll catch a glimpse of RAW or SMACKDOWN. SO really, over the past few years I've only watched wrestling on TV a handful of times. I can lie down in bed and burn through a three disc DVD in one day if I feel lazy enough, and if it interests me. A DVD like the 'top 50 finishers' takes me like... 9 different viewings to watch matches with an uncommon theme.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> I had to use Youtube ALOT with a few of my projects (mainly the WWE Championship, WHC, and Triple H projects) , and I've noticed something in my review style..... If I OWN it on DVD or I have a better quality copy of a match downloaded, it ALWAYS gets a better rating from me , which might fuck up my reviews as a whole. Anybody else share this common flaw in their reviewing ? This is why I own a FUCKLOAD of the WWE DVD library, so when I review matches I don't need to become stalled by the quality being abysmal.
> 
> The only time I watch wrestling on a Television is if I order a PPV, or if it's on at the gym I'll catch a glimpse of RAW or SMACKDOWN. SO really, over the past few years I've only watched wrestling on TV a handful of times. I can lie down in bed and burn through a three disc DVD in one day if I feel lazy enough, and if it interests me. A DVD like the 'top 50 finishers' takes me like... 9 different viewings to watch matches with an uncommon theme.


Do you have a website or blog with your review projects or just post randomly in here? I'd be interested to read them.


----------



## Superstar30 (Dec 8, 2012)

*Re: Are WWE DVD documentaries overfilled with wrestlers kissing up to each other?*

they're all under contract to wwe, and it's a wwe produced product, so of course they're not going to trash each other


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Posted a SHITLOAD randomly in here over the past few threads (been on here for only like 11 months but I've almost been exclusive to this thread for the longest time). Gonna update my WWE Championship list in a little bit if you'd be interested in that  

But alas, nobody's interested in that


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## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> Posted a SHITLOAD randomly in here over the past few threads (been on here for only like 11 months but I've almost been exclusive to this thread for the longest time). Gonna update my WWE Championship list in a little bit if you'd be interested in that
> 
> But alas, nobody's interested in that


haha sure man. Don't think I wanna go searching through all the threads for the all stuff


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I counted 19 singles match between John Cena vs Edge. Think I can get this done with eventually? I'm gonna try. Gonna do a similar project with TNA and the program between AJ Styles & Christopher Daniels.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't do it with Styles and Daniels. It'll be 2019 by the time you eventually finish their 638 matches together :lol

We should all individually tackle a different series of matches for the holiday season. Could be a pretty damn fun idea, unless Cal tries to convince us that Austin-Taker had awesome chemistry, in which case I'd jump off the nearest dock with a cement block tied around my ankles.

I nominate *Choke2Death* to review the entire Punk-Bryan series unk2

PS: Kidding, love you cal


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's gonna be 17 after Sunday. TNA is billing it as "one final time". We'll see how that holds up in about a month or two.

I'm down. Although I might want to rethink the series I pick if it means I can score something like Christian vs McIntyre, Guerrero vs Mysterio, or Punker vs Danielson.

Bulk of what I need to see/rate from the Cena/Edge program is all of their TV matches. Oh, and Last Man Standing from Backlash '09. Been far too long since I last watched it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just TV/PPV singles matches right ?

Those house shows and other MISC matches can be really fucking hard to track down honestly. Going to decide which series of matches I'm going to take on before I go to bed. Disc one of this DAMN Road Warriors DVD is over, on to disc two tomorrow. Should finish up that disc and the HBK SC before I go back to the city for two days to write finals. Then it's DVDMARATHONAMANIA for me


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Not even gonna attempt to go find some hard gems via fan cams or whatnot.

Traditional lazy guy route. It only happened if it was on TV or PPV.

I need something to motivate me to watch WWE PPVs atm. I popped in Royal Rumble '06 to finish it (which is where I got the idea for Cena/Edge, see, it all comes together at the end) and I skipped the Rumble to watch the two championship bouts. Once they ended I had zero desire to sit through the longest Rumble match in history. Popped in a TNA DVD instead. I've been out of touch with watching WWE PPVs lately. It's either been matches from TV, old school WWF PPVs, or other promotions. Perhaps this project can help me get the urge to slam through WWE PPVs right now.

Have on tap: Rumble 06's rumble match, NWO '06, Cyber Sunday '06, Judgment Day '07, Extreme Rules 2011, & Vengeance 2011.

So with a less than enthusiastic approach to watching atm those could be sitting in my corner for a bit. I'm not gonna force it either. That ruins the enjoyment of watching in the first place.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Would gladly do any of these ;

Punk/Bryan
Punk/Cena
Punk/Mysterio

If somebody could get me a full match listing with either of these it'd be great. If not, I'll just do HHH-Orton or HHH-HBK since I know where to find even the televised ones there.

PS: Don't blame you. Not a fan of CS 06 or Judgment Day 07 in the absolute slightest. I own both, and neither will be receiving a replay in the future unless necessary for a project or something IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn. Punker vs Cena. That would be a good one for me to make the excuse to go watch Punk vs Cena from NOC. I think I'd take that one if it isn't a problem. 

(we need the other guys who frequent this thread to show up and throw their hats in)


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yeah, I'm the same way. Can't watch something that long on my computer. And I have a pretty good sized screen. But I need that big-screen TV experience to take in a match for the first time. *I feel like if I were to watch that match (or any good match) on a computer screen for the first time, I wouldn't be doing it justice.* I am a very visual person, so maybe that's part of it. I have to see that match. Might try to put it on DVD sometime this weekend.


Small screen doesn't bother me. I watch stuff on a tiny portable DVD a lot. Same with quality. I'll watch anything regardless of quality as long as it's watchable. My toddlerhood (NOW A WORD) was fuzzy tapings of Sesame Street and Power Rangers. I do sort of agree with the bold part. I've watched matches on computer and actually wanted to turn it off because it was on a computer. I haven't re-watched them and might be underrating some of them.



#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> We should all individually tackle a different series of matches for the holiday season. Could be a pretty damn fun idea,


I like this idea. I'll probably do Rey/Punk because they had plenty of matches, but I can't remember many of them and I want to watch more 2010 WWE. I remember Armageddon 2008, WM26 and SD 2/12/10. IDK how many else I've watched. I'd kinda like to do Rey/Jericho, Taker/Orton HHH/Big Show and Taker/Big Show, too. Fuck I'm at a point in my wrestling life where I'm up for anything. I've been watching random 2012 indies with guys I've never heard of lately and really digging it. Does someone have a random, out of the blue 2000s WWE feud/series that no one talks about? I'd like to do that. I've never seen the Paul London v Akio stuff, maybe I'll jump on that. Or something UMAGA did.

I dare sometime to do HHH/Michaels.

I've watched like every Punk/Cena at this point. Including house show ones (which were fun but didn't really GRAB me). Did people watch the 8/22/11 Raw one? That was really good shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do an X-Pac vs Chris Jericho one from 2000. They had some singles matches back then.

I own nearly every Punker vs Cena match so that one will be a lock. And a good excuse to cram all at once for the fun of it. I loved their 8/22/11 match. I'm at **** with it. Haven't seen NOC 2012 yet, but I'm at the point where the 8/22 match is their second best bout behind MITB.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

NOC 12 is really good. Probably the WWE MOTY since Over the Limit. That and Show/Sheamus feel close.

Jericho v X-Pac sounds really cool.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I bet it's up on dailymotion. Sheamus/Show from Hell in a Cell was. Which I'll second in the chime that it was the best match since the Punk/Danielson series. I'll say series since I'm one of the guys who really loved the MITB match.

I tried looking with something involving Christian in 2000. Wishful thinking as all of his matches were tags with Edge. I did notice he's duked it out a fair amount of times vs Kane over the years. Those could be fun.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Long time since I've been on here. 

I'm liking this idea #paulheymanguy.

No one has thought of doing HHH/foley match series? I'll gladly take that series off your hands

Been watching a lot of 90's matches and will be posting up my top 50 matches for the decade soon with write ups 

Still just working out my top 5 and there order right now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

#PaulHeymanGuy said:


> We should all individually tackle a different series of matches for the holiday season. Could be a pretty damn fun idea, unless Cal tries to convince us that Austin-Taker had awesome chemistry, in which case I'd jump off the nearest dock with a cement block tied around my ankles.
> 
> PS: Kidding, love you cal


Nah, they only have like, 3 matches worth seeing, and a couple of genuine shit fests .

Also, plenty of Flair/Steamboat talk recently. Stop it. FLAIR VS WINDHAM is what ya'll should be watching and loving! Battle of the Belts II 1986 and World Wide Wrestling 1987 matches are both ahead of anything Flair and Steamboat did together .

Jericho/X-Pac matches were nothing special. Best they pulled out was probably ***1/4.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm down for a series of matches as well. Is it just strictly WWF/E affiliated? How many matches as well are we talking series wise? 3 and above?

Truth be told I've seen a lot of WWF/E feuds in their entirety so I'll leave it someone else to maybe recommend something that may slip my mind. Hardy/Edge sounds like something I could do, since I adore the Summerslam war and haven't seen the Cage match for a good year and a bit. Can't remember much about their street fight on Raw and the Ladder match which ended the feud. Any other suggestions for feuds?

Can't remember much at all about Punk/Cena 8/22. NOC and Sheamus/Show are definitely the two best matches since Punk/Bryan in May. NOC is a really great take on the MITB match, with Punk now playing the well scouted and methodical champion who has a counter for everything Cena throws at him but grows increasingly frustrated with as Cena refuses to lie down. Some people had an issue with the amount of nearfalls, but truth be told its not that much different to how they paced the nearfalls in the MITB match (save for one spot where Cena does perhaps get up to early to hit a desperation move). Show/Sheamus is just evidence of how a remarkably simple formula when executed to perfection can lead to a great match.

Flair/Steamboat is a truly magical series. COTC is probably the best match as a whole, but something about the atmosphere and character dynamic in the Chi Town match makes me adore it. I also think it deserves praise for being their shortest match from the famed '89 series and yet still being in contention for their best. Can't forget about the House Show matches in Landover and Philly either.

Flair/Windham really can be considered a superior series, though I wouldn't begrudge anyone for preferring Flair/Steamboat. You still get a beautiful character contrast which dominates the sequences and transitions and makes for a constant story which adds meaning and depth to the match as a whole. Plus 1987 Barry Windham might be the most naturally talented wrestler I've ever seen.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm up for doing Taker/Mankind series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone should do Flair/Steamboat. I have 15 matches between the two before they even get to 1989 . Over 20 matches in total .

Shame a lot of the early ones are JIP though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Someone should also do the Rockers/Brainbusters series in 1989. I recently saw the series and would highly recommend them to anyone curious about the pinnacle of WWF tag team wrestling. Arn and Tully are sensational heels with an array of comedy spots and nefarious tactics to draw heat, and the Rockers feature Michaels at arguably the peak of his career as a worker and Jannetty proving he's a damn good talent in his own right.

Sting/Vader is another series that should be done. Its on Youtube/Dailymotion so easily accessible and is arguably one of the most consistent and great David vs Goliath series of matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So everyone is doing a series of matches are they? No idea what I'll do. When it comes to WWE I've pretty much seen what needs to be seen. WCW has some stuff probably, but nothing I can imagine I'd really WANT to see (aka CW stuff lol).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like this idea of doing review on entire series. But KOK/#PHG, I really don't know if I'm up for Bryan/Punk, though. Maybe if it was WWE only but not their Indy stuff since I have a hard time watching that kind of wrestling where it feels so 'local'.

Otherwise, I'm willing to review the entire HHH/Orton series (singles only) or if anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate. Just don't try to make my life a living hell.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Can't wait to read those sets of reviews. Good luck haha


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I'll do *Malenko/Guerrero* while I have a lot of time today...they will be reviewed in the order I watch them, not in the order of when they happened. 

-ECW TV 2/3 falls match (their last match in ECW) ****. This match has practically no strikes, very few punches and kicks...if any at all. I dislike the draw finish but it was a spectacular match. Plenty of mat work from both guys. Hold and counter-hold, a chess match of sorts on the ground. Good atmosphere, very receptive and knowledgeable of the maneuvers.
.

-Hostile City Showdown ***1/2: Guerrero's agility and mat ability combined is an awesome sight. I spilled my cereal at Malenko pulling out a flying head scissor...I'd never seen him do anything like that before. The match was fairly even until Malenko started working the knee and the pace slowed down considerably when Malenko took over, his offense is more methodical and submission. A match where both guys got to set and reset the pace and the other guy was able to keep up. Some pretty good nearfalls with Malenko's Northern Lights Suplex bridge (which was awesome) and Guerrero's Frog Splash. 

Guerrero's offense is crowd pleasing in contrast to the workman style of Malenko, his ability to mix up high flying with the mat style. Wasn't a fan of the 30 minute draw but a great TV match. Well worked, but they could have sped the pace up a bit, I suppose its part of Malenko's style to slow the match a lot but within a time limit that can be troublesome. Good match though. 
.
Will review another ECW match and a few (or one) of their WCW matches later on.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I was thinking about either a Benoit/HHH series or Rey/Eddie series - Is there a website that shows all of the matches over a year or whatever and all I have to do is ctrl+f or something? Would make mine, and everybody elses', job a lot easier, not just for this holiday season project but for as long as we're wrestling fans. (Y)


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## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

I'll do an HBK series, undecided on which one at the moment. Suggestions accepted 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HOORAY 4 WUNDERFUL IDEAZZZZZZZZZZZZ 

Seriously, anything that gravitates my attention away from these bad DVDs onto something good is fucking awesome. 

Seriously considering Jericho-Benoit. From the Super J cup Semi-Finals to WCW Saturday Night to Nitro to Thunder to Raw to Smackdown to PPV these guys had EIGHTEEN singles matches that were aired. STRONGLY considering this...

EDIT : Doing Hogan-Savage from the 80s and 90s. Should get REALLY bad once we head to WCW territory, but I feel that Savage just got the absolute best out of Hogan in the ring for some reason


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Pt. 2 of the *Guerrero/Malenko*...I'll review one more ECW match and then 2 of their WCW matches (I believe I have at least 2 in my library)


-Hardcore TV *** 1/4:
A little faster paced that the HCS match but you will see many of the same maneuvers. Malenko had this one pretty well in hand for the most part, working the midsection of Eddie but as usual Eddie snaps some quickfire offense here and there to keep the faith alive. 
I particularly like the quick finish, it was so sudden it was almost like it was a fluke. Malenko lost nothing in being pinned by Guerrero in a counter-hold. The sequence was crisp, a hurricanrana by Eddie into a pin, Malenko reverses and Guerrero counters the reversal and gets the pinfall. The booking of this match was Malenko heavy, unlike the other matches that were booked to be more even, I suppose that was done due to Eddie going over in such sudden fashion. It wasn't a decisive win for Eddie but the entire ECW feud was based on them being considered equals. 
.
Now on to their WCW matches...let's start:

US Title, No DQ match; Uncensored 1997 *** 1/2: 
A major difference from their ECW title matches already....striking! A lot of strikes to start the match off. Malenko seems really intense, when you add that to his offense. A somewhat different style considering the past contests in ECW. The pace started out fast, then Malenko went into his traditional submission based offense but not for long. 


The intensity level of this match is much higher than their respectful competition matches in ECW. Eddie worked Malenko's knee with some ferocity mixing up a springboard with some submission holds...specifically an STF that looks legitimately painful. A dropkick on the knee into the ring post was pretty cool looking as well.


Its almost as if Malenko started the match as the heel but the crowd forced Eddie into working heel. Its a pretty interesting dynamic. Both guys were taunting their opponent and heeling it up. Malenko breaks out Eddie's Frog Splash (which was terrible but funny at the same time) and actually breaks the nearfall himself. Eddie uses Malenko's Texas Cloverleaf (not that bad looking). Malenko's offense a little more explosive here than usual, its a welcome surprise. 


This was a fun match, well until Syxx interfered for reasons unknown to me causing Eddie to be smashed in the face with a video camera and pinned. It was a good match, but the finish was a bit unsatisfying, with all the aggression between the two, you expected a more decisive finish with one man coming out on top but I feel robbed of that because of the interference. 
.
Next up...

Cruiserweight Title match, Starrcade 1997 *** 3/4:
Eddie working full blown heel here. As the aggression of their Uncensored match is still intact in this one. Malenko pulled off some high impact offense early before Eddie begged off and came back attacking the legs of Malenko momentarily. 


Eddie's heel antics are hilarious, running on away his knees, kissing Malenko's foot, constant begging off before coming back to re-engage is entertaining. Malenko's no-nonsense face character plays off well. He punishes Eddie's foolishness instead of playing into it. 


Later Eddie really opens up on Malenko's knee with various attacks, including a dropkick of the steel steps into his knee and then follows up with submission holds.
Which works perfectly into the finishing sequence where Eddie lands a huge top rope missile dropkick into the leg of Malenko and follows up with a Frog Splash on the knee for the pin. 

Some good mat work but no chain wrestling, some pretty good high impact offense consisting of powerbombs and various slams. I think its one of the better matches, they had, certainly the best WCW match I've seen them have perhaps but just a shade below their ECW work despite the review score. 
.
It was interesting watching all these matches at one time. From the grimy, slow paced, mat struggles of ECW to the intense, faster paced, higher impact matches in WCW. I really enjoy all the matches they had, their styles mesh very well together. The ECW matches seemed to favor Malenko more, they were mostly mat based with Eddie playing underdog even if they were trying to play up them being equals. The WCW matches were more even, both guys got in a fair amount of offense and both looked good even in losses.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Showed my friends the Rise/Fall of ECW DVD last night. They loved it but we made the mistake of starting it at 1 AM.

Can't watch the doc enough.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Whenever me and my friends order a PPV there's usually like 8 or 9 of us, when only two of us are actually what one would call "wrestling fans". The rest just simply find the WWE very entertaining from time to time and enjoy the spectacle of me marking out for Haitch , Brock, and Punk. 

Which reminds me... Have any of you ever had an OMGEPICRAGE after something you've seen in wrestling ? EVERYONE thought I was gonna rage when Rock pinned Cena, but I never because the match meant nothing to me.... I saved all of that emotion for Brock-Cena. BELIEVE ME, that freakout was fucking EPIC. When I was younger I used to cry whenever Trips lost a major match. The entire Batista series nearly drove me to insanity because I thought Haitch was crazy enough to put himself over in the end. Trips even mentions this himself in the KOK DVD in which he says "I was winning all of these matches so by the time HIAC rolled around , the mass audience believed that 'oh my god, Triple H is gonna take the title off Batista too soon'" .....

HE FUCKING KNOWS WHAT EVERYBODY THINKS OF HIM! The ultimate troll :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've never watched a wrestling PPV with more than one person. And they've never been a wrestling fan. I prefer to watch them alone based on these experiences .

Never had any rage moments, but I've marked the fuck out on a number of occasions. Which isn't the best thing to do at like 4am in the morning .

Still need to think of a match series to watch. Not really up for anything non WWE/WCW... but I'm low on options for them .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

FuckChristmas said:


> Still need to think of a match series to watch. Not really up for anything non WWE/WCW... but I'm low on options for them .


Ziggler/Kofi, Orton/HHH, Chavo/Hornswoggle Undertaker/Big Show?


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

I watch quite a few WWE PPVs with friends when we all aren't away at uni since I know a few who are into it (ones a hardcore Cena fan and frequents bleacher report for his news. His reaction to Rocky winning was...interesting). It's probably more fun b/c I can get drunk and laugh about the bad stuff but usually if there's something great I'll go back and watch it like the next day to double check it was actually as good as I thought it was.

Totally made an ass out of myself by bigging up D Bry vs Sheamus at Mania this year, my friends reactions to the 18 seconds was merciless. Thankfully Extreme Rules proved me right :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Do something you've seen but you haven't really in-depth reviewed..... Glacier vs Wrath   

In all seriousness though, I'm going to have to pick a more recent series than Savage-Hogan due to the fact that it's nearly impossible to find a handful of their televised closed circuit matches from the 80s. 

I'm just gonna do the nine HBK-HHH matches because it's been 6 years since I've seen their last RAW match and I own the rest on DVD. Severely need to rewatch them all too, because I feel I've treated their series too lightly, gonna do it match my match and post how my opinion has changed over the years. It's going to be an awesome retrospective   

OH MAN.... Our Mania feed came on during Kane-Orton , and we never realized that Bryan-Sheamus was the opening "match" until halfway during the PPV. My best friend went fucking NUTS because he absolutely HATES Sheamus. That was an awesome rage, Wrestlemania usually provokes heavy emotions out of wrestling fans honestly. If they had a camera on my reaction to Punk beating Cena @ SS 11 and how I went INSANE only for Del Rio to come out with the title in the end which made me RAGE... I'd be a fucking youtube sensation by now


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Unfortunately for me, I don't have a single friend who likes wrestling anymore. Plenty of them used to like it back in the day around the Ruthless Aggression period but in most cases, they lost interest around 07-08, sometimes around the Benoit tragedy to the PG rating. I think I would have joined them in that regard had it not been for forums and me turning into a smark of sorts. And I can say the same had I not thought of the idea of checking out entire years with my complete loss of interest in current day WWE.

Anyways, before I move on to the next PPV review I have coming, I'll say that the Orton/Cena series is reserved for me! 15 matches from my search so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Ziggler/Kofi, Orton/HHH, Chavo/Hornswoggle Undertaker/Big Show?


Seen all the Show/Undertaker matches. Wanna try and find something I've not really seen or don't remember.

I kinda wish I had wrestling fan friends. I sort of have one who watches, but he's Stupid(Tom). And I haven't seen him in about 4 months since he got his new girlfriend. And he's like the most casual fan in terms of what he likes compared to the ubersmark that I am (best way to describe how different we are lol). My best friend watched it for a while in 00-02, though I kinda think he lost interest in 01 and just kept watching a little longer for my sake (AAWWWWWWW ain't he nice?). He was a huge fan of Austin/Angle from SS 01 . Practically the only match he remembers . Having someone as passionate about wrestling as me as a real life friend would be awesome. Especially since I make videos, as I have many ideas for shows that would involve a second person who is also a fan .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton-Cena ? Dear god... Good luck 

I almost just fucking killed myself laughing at this Road Warriors DVD. Animal and JR are doing an alternate commentary on the Crockett Cup 86 main event, and Animal says to JR during the match on commentary "It's called in ring psychology JR, if there's anything The Road Warriors are about, it's PSYCHOLOGY" in a DEAD SERIOUS tone. LOD HAVING FUCKING PSYCHOLOGY ?!?!?!?!! WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE ? 

On a side note, about 8 matches in , I've finally seen a pretty good match... vs The Freebirds from Superclash 85. *** all the way. About 10 matches left and some of these look pretty damn good so I can't really complain. Hopefully blast through the rest of this tonight after I get dragged to a lame fucking house party by my girlfriend


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh no, you have to go to a PARTY with your GIRLFRIEND instead of watching LOD matches? You poor bastard!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Man, I'm all partied out since last summer... That shit was fucking insane. I can't drink anyways because it'll completely fuck up the roll I'm on now in terms of lifting personal records and all that shit. She fucking ADORES going to these things though and usually I'm a huge douche about it but I agreed to go if she would watch TDKR with me later 

My idea for a online wrestling show has been manifesting itself in my mind for quite a while now. I was thinking about interviewing various online wrestling personalities about various topics, kind of like a "21 questions" type deal, where I'd get a pretty big name from the IWC/YWC on and I'd kind of do a conference call where I'd be in front of the camera but have the person I'm interviewing on speakerphone or some other type of deal. I need a new camera though for sure, but I'd really fucking wanna do that. 

The questions would range from "What's the better series of matches ; Taker-Angle , or Benoit-Angle" to something like "Who's your all time favorite wrestler and why?" to "If you could fuck one diva past, present, or future, who would it be and why?" . It would involve discussion from PPV/Match ratings, DVD reviews, hateful rants and raves, and random shit like that. I would preferably have people on there who disagreed with a ton of my stuff though, it's more hilarious that way. Would need to advertise it too because I'd want a couple hundred-1000 consistent viewers to really do it.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Dooo itt, I like to watch the Offtheropeshow on Youtube personally, they have some stuff like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Unforgiven 2005:*

Ric Flair vs Carlito - ***1/4
- A very nice start to the PPV with some nice spots. Most notably is the pop Flair gets when he finally connects with a top rope maneuver. And finally, he also wins the Intercontinental Championship with the Figure Four. A feel good moment for Naitch and an overall enjoyable match.

Trish Stratus & Ashley vs Torrie Wilson & Victoria - *1/2
- Apart from Trish returning, nothing interesting found here.

Big Show vs Snitsky - **1/4
- Extremely uninteresting just like most things involving Snitsky.

Shelton Benjamin vs Kerwin White - **1/4
- Kerwin White has to be one of the stupidest gimmicks ever. And this match was not even announced prior to the PPV. What a complete waste of Shelton. Earlier in the year, fans expected him to be a future World Champion yet this is what he gets to do followed by some stupid losing streak.

Matt Hardy vs Edge - ****1/2
- Absolutely awesome. A very hot crowd for a brutal steel cage match between these two. Just love how they show the hatred between them by going all out and giving it their best. The ending is very epic with Lita interfering only to take the Twist of Fate followed by Edge's Spear which Matt kicks out to a huge pop. Then when Matt is about to escape, he decides to land a pitch perfect Legdrop for the victory. It caught me by surprise because I could've sworn that I remembered reading that Edge won this match. It also makes up for the _terrible_ build-up this match had with Matt jobbing left and right to Rob Conway, Snitsky and not even being able to win a tag match with Big Show as his partner.

The Hurricane & Rosey vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - **
- The tag division is beyond dead at this point. Hurricane and Rosey have held the titles for almost 6 months here yet they made a total amount of 10 appearances on Raw at most. Cade & Murdoch take the titles of them but it's so uninteresting. The tag division today has more life than Raw in 05 ffs! I must say the DDT from the apron to the floor was pretty cool, though.

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Masters - ***1/2
- Shawn manages to carry Masters to a very good match similar with Undertaker & Heidenreich the year before. Credit to Masters too. He does a great job working on the back and being a powerhouse whereas Shawn remains the Showstopper as always with a very good performance. They book Masters so strongly that Shawn even has to cheat his way to victory by using a lowblow to escape the Master Lock. Shawn wins after the Sweet Chin Music. Enjoyed it a lot!

John Cena vs Kurt Angle - ***1/2
- A bit overbooked after the ref bump but it's very good while it lasts. Angle is on fire with his Wrestling Machine character while Cena does a great job selling the Ankle Lock as well as trying to keep this a brawl rather than a wrestling match which the announcers take notes of numerous times throughout. Not their best match but a great effort with a DQ finish to further the storyline. This is also slowly the start for the anti-Cena group of fans that booed him everywhere. While the minor boos have been noticeable since SummerSlam, they started fading away on the build-up to Unforgiven but after this, the fans went harder on Cena and it got very bad in 2006.

*Overall:* *** out of ***** (Unforgiven is a decent PPV this time around. Three great matches along with a decent one, but on the other hand, the rest of the card is boring. Still, it's recommended because the good outdoes the bad without a doubt.)


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Kerwin White :lmao:lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HBK-Masters is on my ****** list. Watched Unforgiven 2005 live back in the day, always wondered why the Cena-Angle blowoff wasn't a specialty match given the nature of the feud. The Survivor Series match probably should have been a Cage match or some shit like that. But yeah, HBK-Masters is probably the best match in Masters's career unless he has something really awesome as of late that I haven't seen. 

PS: What the fuck is up with everybody's infatuation with John Cena's "word life" gimmick ? People talk about it like Cena was one of the best in the business with that gimmick (he wasn't). I seriously think people pimp "Word Life Cena" just because they hate the current product and would do anything to go back to the "good ol days".


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rapper Cena was awesome in 2003, but after that he was pretty boring. He was a suck-up in 2004 and his raps became gimmicky but then believe it or not, I think Cena from the first half of 2005 pre-draft was even WORSE than PG Cena. When he started his little "Chain Gang" the guy sounded so desperate when sucking up to the crowd. He got better after the draft and finally started showing some intensity in the Jericho and Angle feuds. He was very edgy in 2006 despite the boos but since 07, he's become bland and the kid friendly joke that we've seen in the past few years.

Going through it on a weekly basis gave me a whole new perspective. 2003 Cena >>>>>>>


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> HBK-Masters is on my ****** list. Watched Unforgiven 2005 live back in the day, always wondered why the Cena-Angle blowoff wasn't a specialty match given the nature of the feud. The Survivor Series match probably should have been a Cage match or some shit like that. But yeah, HBK-Masters is probably the best match in Masters's career unless he has something really awesome as of late that I haven't seen.
> 
> *PS: What the fuck is up with everybody's infatuation with John Cena's "word life" gimmick ? People talk about it like Cena was one of the best in the business with that gimmick (he wasn't). I seriously think people pimp "Word Life Cena" just because they hate the current product and would do anything to go back to the "good ol days".*


He was even worse then. I hated everything about JC until 2010. I hated "the marine" gimmick, the rapper, the "word life" gimmick, the "chain gang soldiers" gimmick fuck all that shit. 


Since 2010 JC has become a non-entity to me. I don't hate him anymore, it wastes too much of my energy. Besides he's gotten better as a performer since those days.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never liked Cena's gimmick at any point, but he's definitely at his worst now. He's just so fucking dull. Even though he delivers most of the time in big matches, I rarely look forward to them before hand because I just don't give a flying fuck about Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Which one would "Word Life" be?

The way I see it:
2003: Dr. of Thuganomics (HEEL) --- AWESOME and the reason I'm a fan
2004: Toned down version of the previous year as a face - Boring
2005: Chain Gang - A kiss ass and the worst of the bunch but gets better on Raw
2006: The Marine - Stupid but at least he's very edgy and intense
2007: Same but he's getting more toned down
2008: Start of the Cenation - just okay
2009-2012: PG & Fruity Pebbles - A goofball


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BUT WHAT ABOUT CENA-ROCK ?!?!?!

:cena2

"Word-Life" Cena to me is 03-05 as a whole to be honest, both face AND heel. People think that if Cena goes back to this character then he'll be the GOAT or something :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kerwin White OWNED. :lmao I always forget about that gimmick but I found it hilarious.

On the subject of friends that are at least somewhat into wrestling, I have about 8 or 9 of them.  And four of them are almost as into it as I am. ALMOST.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hard to believe DOLPH ZIGGLER was his caddy :lmao.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao NICK NAMETH

I'm still waiting for Cena to bring up the Kerwin gimmick or his NICKY character during the current feud. Even if it's supposed to be serious and stuff. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best Ziggler match?

Gotta go with probably the PPV match against Danielson. They had an awesome series of matches that week. PPV, Raw and SD :mark:. Ziggler on twitter boasting about carrying the Indy talent to quality matches was awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love Ziggler/Mysterio from SS '09 and Ziggler/Bryan from BR '10. I also really liked the '11 match with Punk the night after SSeries. I'm a little foggy on some '11 stuff as I remember really like a couple 3-way/4-way matches with him, a Morrison one and one of the Ryder ones. Vs Edge from Rumble '11 is great too.

Gonna agree with you on Ziggler/Bryan though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Always was disappointed with the Mysterio matches tbh. Felt like they should have been on the level of the Danielson matches and the Punk matches, but they never got there for me. Always solid around the *** mark though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BR 10 vs Bryan for sure.

Always thought SOME of Dolph's stuff has always been overrated (especially his RR 11 match with Edge that really isn't his fault whatsoever) , but he has blossomed in my eyes to be one of the more dependable non-top guys in the company at the moment. He's the kind of guy who has a fuckload of ***+ stuff but barely any **** matches. 

I need to rewatch the Sheamus match at NWO though, and the Cena match @ TLC has some serious **** implications on it.

Ziggler's **** matches off the top of my head : vs Danielson @ BR 10, vs Punk RAW 11 .... That's all I can think about right now honestly. I'm sure there's a few more, but damn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Not a big fan of Ziggler but my favorite match of his is the one with Orton last year when he took a Flapjack, oversold the fuck out of it and took an RKO immediately after. Orton leapfrogs over Vickie in that same match. It was absolutely awesome and probably **** worthy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Actually forgot about the Sheamus matches. They always have good ones, and I really liked that NWO match. Under the Bryan match but above the best Punk match.

Agreed with the Edge match. Wasn't that good at all. Edge worked the gimmick of not being able to use the Spear to an absolute minimum. He should have watched HBK/Orton from SS to see how a match where you can't use your finisher is done.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> Actually forgot about the Sheamus matches. They always have good ones, and I really liked that NWO match. Under the Bryan match but above the best Punk match.
> 
> Agreed with the Edge match. Wasn't that good at all. Edge worked the gimmick of not being able to use the Spear to an absolute minimum. *He should have watched HBK/Orton from SS to see how a match where you can't use your finisher is done.*


Agreed. That match fucking owns. HBK works the stipulation perfectly. ****1/2 last time I watched.

As for Rey/Ziggler matches, I loved the SS one. Thought it was their best one together but I still think they can do better.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Ziggler/Danielson from BR was stellar.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd actually put Sheamus > > > Ziggler at this point. Besides the MIZ, WWE has done a great job over the last few years with their main event players being pretty damn good workers. ADR is pretty shitty too for main event standards come to think of it. Might be the second blandest character in the WWE right now next to Wade Borrett. 

Now that I think about it, Dolph has had a program with pretty much every current big name in the WWE (Cena, Orton, Punk, Bryan, Sheamus, Rey). What the fuck is up with that ? He needs a program with a Henry or a Big Show soon IMO , he would really shine in those situations. Seriously, I think out of everyone on the current roster, he probably would be the best person to work with Ryback and get a good match out of him for once in his career. Besides Ryback, what other face is there for Ziggler to feud with ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alberto is a fine worker IMO. Something about his execution of moves. He just screams a true wrestler. But he is very bland character-wise, though.

Just got done with watching this fun 8 man tag match from Raw after Unforgiven. Big Show/Cena/HBK/Matt Hardy vs Edge/Masters/Angle/Snitsky. The ending was pretty awesome with Cena going crazy doing his signature moves and then Edge getting sandwiched by the entire face team in a 4 man pinfall.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x51zdp_8-man-tag-team-match-raw-9-19-2005_sport#.UMOwKbUnguc


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not sure who I'd consider better between Sheamus and Ziggler. They both have some bad qualities, but are both great for the most part. Sheamus is extremely underrated by some people around these parts (probably not in this thread though lol ). Sure he got pushed hard and fast, but imo the moment he dropped the title in the EC in 2010 I think he rapidly improved. Shame that aside from his WHC run this year, his title runs have always been shitty and in the background (second one was in the background while Cena was battling Nexus, and honestly I cannot remember a single match he had at that time with the belt... or when/who he dropped it to :lmao). And then of course his WHC win this year was terrible. Should have been given 15 minutes or so at WM.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah that match is included on the UNF 05 DVD as an extra, and I concede that it's a ton of fun to watch, pretty sure I threw a favorable rating at it once upon a time.

Mark my words when I say that a CM Punk/Sheamus feud will happen in 2013 and that it will fucking own. It'll probably main event a PPV or two I'm pretty sure, once Sheamus gets out of the WHC picture and into the WWE Championship picture. Yes, that means that I'm saying either Sheamus or Punk will be WWE Champion come mid 2013. Who the fuck else would it be besides Cena/Orton ? :lol


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd comfortably take Sheamus over Ziggler at this point. Sheamus works well with almost everyone, though his weaker matches do generally happen when he faces someone of similar build but without a distinctive style: e.g Cena and Del Rio. He works well with smaller guys like Ziggler and Bryan, due to his agility and being able to work a generally quicker pace and he thrives against bigger opponents or guys who brawl more, e.g Show, Henry, Barrett, Tensai and Cesaro. Its almost impossible for the guy to have a bad match with the style he has, though I would love to see if he could eventually produce a great match with someone like Cena since he does seem to generally work better when his opponent has a more distinctive style.

Ziggler's problem is that outside of his bumps and finishing stretches barely anything else happens in his match. He really can't make a control segment engaging and there's this terrible sense of apathy in 2/3rds of any match of his. You can fast forward to the ending and not really miss anything outside of a great bump. Very rarely does a clear story build throughout the match and there's very little in the way of pacing or selling. He works a good counter heavy finishing stretch to his credit, and its not like all the issues I'm citing are all his fault. But he's not as good a heel worker as someone like Drew Mcintyre who makes nearly an entire match matter and builds little stories and character moments into his matches.

Ziggler as a face interests me far more. He can bump for all the offence which is his strong point, he's got a decent finishing stretch and signature arsenal of offence..his biggest problem is just making the middle portion of the match have any depth or mean anything. Being a face and having to simply bump and time his comeback could be a much better thing for him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Yeah that match is included on the UNF 05 DVD as an extra, and I concede that it's a ton of fun to watch, pretty sure I threw a favorable rating at it once upon a time.
> 
> Mark my words when I say that a CM Punk/Sheamus feud will happen in 2013 and that it will fucking own. It'll probably main event a PPV or two I'm pretty sure, once Sheamus gets out of the WHC picture and into the WWE Championship picture. Yes, that means that I'm saying either Sheamus or Punk will be WWE Champion come mid 2013. *Who the fuck else would it be besides Cena/Orton ?* :lol












:lol

Actually, I wouldn't mind a Punk/Cena/Orton/Sheamus title scene. The main reason I non-stop trash Punk is because I'm sick of him as champion. The hate didn't really start until Wrestlemania time when his title reign was just getting boring. And a heel turn is not enough to make it "fresh". If he would take a break from the main event scene for a bit, it would be great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, all thsi talk has made me put Unforgiven '05 on my 'need to buy' list. Always curious about HBK/Masters and I've amazingly never seen that Hardy/Edge Cage match.

I'm not even gonna compare, Sheamus & Ziggler are two of my favorites right now. Two great workers who can essentially have a good match with anyone imo.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

My favourite Ziggler match is probably the one with Chris Masters in 2010. I really, really, really liked he and Swagger v Kofi and Bourne from Vengeance last year, too. Agreed on the Edge match. It isn't bad but really not that good at all. I hate sounding like a broken record but Edge was unbelievably hard to watch by then. 

I'd definitely, definitely have Sheamus over Ziggler.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Edge, when was he really GREAT in non-gimmick matches?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Alberto is a fine worker IMO. Something about his execution of moves. He just screams a true wrestler. But he is very bland character-wise, though.
> 
> Just got done with watching this fun 8 man tag match from Raw after Unforgiven. Big Show/Cena/HBK/Matt Hardy vs Edge/Masters/Angle/Snitsky. The ending was pretty awesome with Cena going crazy doing his signature moves and then Edge getting sandwiched by the entire face team in a 4 man pinfall.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x51zdp_8-man-tag-team-match-raw-9-19-2005_sport#.UMOwKbUnguc


Did you see Del Rio's moonsault from SD last night? It kinda owned. His enziguri late in the match was pretty sick too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

From 2009-Present , do you know how many NEW WWE Champions there have been (that haven't won a world title in a previous year) ? 

Three, and they've ALL been heels at the current time that they've won. WWE for some reason is VERY hesitant to put the title on a new face, it seems that the WHC is a "test-drive" for faces they believe can elevate to the WWE Championship. That doesn't put the odds in Ryback's favor, who will probably be WHC for a majority of 2013 if I were a betting man.

Orton is the John Cena of Smackdown, in the sense that he's bigger than the WHC, and will probably never win the belt ever again. However, he isn't bigger than the WWE Championship, which is why instead of just being filler like he practically has been since after the Henry feud in 2011, a switch to Raw in the main event scene will benefit him for sure. The last time we've had two NEW WWE Champions (never before held a world title in general) in one year was 2006, so the odds against Ryback are pretty stacked. 

So it looks like the WWE title scene will be a combo of Punk/Sheamus/Cena/Orton for a majority of 2013, with one guy who has never held the belt holding it at some point. The smart money there would have to be placed on somebody like Bryan (who WWE fucks with for some reason) or... Well that's about it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

By the way, every one of my "mark out" or "epic rage" moments when watching a PPV with my friends have all involved either Cena, Orton, or Punk.

1. Marked the fuck out when Orton won the WWE Title at No Mercy 2007.

2. I was so fuckin pumped at Punk's win at MITB last year that I jumped up, tripped, and stumbled into a door. 

3. PISSED beyond belief at the ending of Summerslam 2011. Fuckin Del Rio...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tbh I don't think there was a point in his career where he was truly 'great', or even very good. The highpoint is probably that 2002-2003 stretch on Smackdown when he was feuding with Angle, then teaming with Mysterio and even working Lesnar on the Rebellion tours. But I mean that point of his career isn't exactly 'amazing' by any stretch and at times he comes off as quite clueless/spotty in some of his matches. He does shine in that fatal four way elimination match with Benoit, Angle and Mysterio though. Pretty sure his leg selling in the final stretch with Angle was very good.

2005-2007 he was a great character, but still hardly pulling out great matches. The Flair TLC match and Unforgiven Steel Cage match vs Hardy are his two best singles matches for me, with the Foley Wrestlemania match rounding out a top 3. Yet I'd struggle to call Edge as the best guy in any of them. The TLC match is built around Flair and his underdog performance, with Edge taking a few great bumps to sell the upset. The Hardy match really is a Hardy showcase for me and definitely something I'd point to as evidence of Hardy's talent ahead of Edge's.

For me, 2008-2011 he was unbearingly bad with the overacting and really belongs in that Shawn Michaels league of terribly unconvincing acting. I'm in the minority but I've never really cared for any Cena/Edge match, and the Rated RKO/DX matches whilst not being awful really aren't that high in terms of modern age WWE tags. Tbh one of his more stronger matches where he puts in a good performance might be the Raw 2007 match with Orton. Vengeance 2004 is another match of his where again, his opponent for me steals the show and really ensures the match reaches the heights it does. Its the same in the Raw rematch with Orton again outclassing Edge as the heel.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

My first time appearing/posting on this forum and I couldn't help notice all the comments regarding the Steel Cage between Edge and Matt Hardy from Unforgiven 2005, which makes me very eager to watch this. Heard a ton of positives on this match, but rarely hear any negatives. Hard for me to believe I've never watched that match, hopefully I'll get to it sooner rather than later. 

Just watched Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit from Royal Rumble 2003 again. One of my favorite matches of all-time, and still equally as good the first time I watched it. Out of all the series of matches they've participated in together, this one takes the cake as the best one. Man, they were both just two phenomenal ring workers, and the chemistry was off the charts!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd like to do one of the series review thingys but I honestly don't know if I'll have the time until January and even then, I have my own list of shit that I plan to watch lol. If it was a really short list that I had easy access to I'd do it but I wouldn't be up for a long one that involved a lot of research because I simply wouldn't have the time. This is my 'to watch list' heading into the new year, in no order:

Best Cage matches Set
Elimination Chamber Set
Best of Raw 2009
Best of PPV 2011
Best of PPV 2010 (if I buy it)
Best of Raw 2010 (if I buy it)
Best of Raw/SD 2011 (if I buy it)
DA BROCKTAGON Set
DA RAWK Set
The Definitive NAITCH Collection Set

I also want to do my own end of year 2012 match review along with a 2011 one too. So yeah, I plan to be a busy bee when I get the time off. But the best laid plans and all that lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Segunda Caida said:


> Tbh I don't think there was a point in his career where he was truly 'great', or even very good. The highpoint is probably that 2002-2003 stretch on Smackdown when he was feuding with Angle, then teaming with Mysterio and even working Lesnar on the Rebellion tours. But I mean that point of his career isn't exactly 'amazing' by any stretch and at times he comes off as quite clueless/spotty in some of his matches. He does shine in that fatal four way elimination match with Benoit, Angle and Mysterio though. Pretty sure his leg selling in the final stretch with Angle was very good.
> 
> 2005-2007 he was a great character, but still hardly pulling out great matches. The Flair TLC match and Unforgiven Steel Cage match vs Hardy are his two best singles matches for me, with the Foley Wrestlemania match rounding out a top 3. Yet I'd struggle to call Edge as the best guy in any of them. The TLC match is built around Flair and his underdog performance, with Edge taking a few great bumps to sell the upset. The Hardy match really is a Hardy showcase for me and definitely something I'd point to as evidence of Hardy's talent ahead of Edge's.
> 
> For me, 2008-2011 he was unbearingly bad with the overacting and really belongs in that Shawn Michaels league of terribly unconvincing acting. I'm in the minority but I've never really cared for any Cena/Edge match, and the Rated RKO/DX matches whilst not being awful really aren't that high in terms of modern age WWE tags. Tbh one of his more stronger matches where he puts in a good performance might be the Raw 2007 match with Orton. Vengeance 2004 is another match of his where again, his opponent for me steals the show and really ensures the match reaches the heights it does. Its the same in the Raw rematch with Orton again outclassing Edge as the heel.



Edge was probably 'very good' through some parts of 05-06. I definitely don't think he was a great character, though. Before the 05 Rumble he speared Michaels backstage and started pulling his own and squinting his eyes and curving his mouth and it wad the most embarrassing thing I have ever watched that wasn't 2010-2011 Edge. I should re-watch the 02 Angle matches because I've always liked them.

The Rated RKO/DX tag at Cyber Sunday stinks and I couldn't finish on my last two watches. NYR is a good one, though. I've never really like Cena/Edge either but it's probably been 2007 since I last watched their TLC.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Cena/Edge 
Triple H/Orton
2 feud series you couldn't pay me to watch anytime soon. I swear they wrestled waaaaaaaaaaay toooooooo much.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Edge was probably 'very good' through some parts of 05-06. I definitely don't think he was a great character, though. Before the 05 Rumble he speared Michaels backstage and started pulling his own and squinting his eyes and curving his mouth and it wad the most embarrassing thing I have ever watched that wasn't 2010-2011 Edge. I should re-watch the 02 Angle matches because I've always liked them.
> 
> The Rated RKO/DX tag at Cyber Sunday stinks and I couldn't finish on my last two watches. NYR is a good one, though. I've never really like Cena/Edge either but it's probably been 2007 since I last watched their TLC.


Tbf I didn't watch all his run in that time, so whilst I expected some of his 'acting' to let him down I was speaking more from his 05 heel turn and then slowly gaining mega heat in the Hardy program and then cashing in on Cena. Felt like a breath of fresh air and he was a great slimeball/douchebag character. It definitely ran its course though and I wouldn't at all be surprised if I grew to dislike the character if I went back and watched a lot more promos and segments from that portion of his career.

Actually forgot to say one of his most impressive performance is actually at Summerslam 2005. I know people crap on the match since it makes Hardy look weak (though personally I think its a great way to advance the feud), but Edge's punches, kicks and headbutts were really good in the match which shocked me because he's never been a guy I'd point to as thriving in that sort of environment. Of course Hardy's a sublime seller and he really makes the kicks and overall beating look truly emphatic, but I couldn't find fault with anything Edge did in that match.

I probably should give him more credit for the Flair TLC match, especially the way they timed the spots to tease the upset. But I still think Flair and his underdog veteran performance carries a lot of the emotional investment in the match, same way Lawler is responsible for a lot of what made the Miz TLC enjoyable.

The Cena/Edge TLC just isn't my cup of tea anymore. Just feels generally like an excessive prop war and compare it to something like Sheamus/Morrison as an individual gimmick match where ladders are the main theme, and I can't see how its better. I admit the Cena hate probably made it engrossing on live viewing, but its not really a match that ages well and just feels like its a collection of ladder/table spots. The LMS from Backlash 09 is much in the same vein. Doesn't feel as heated and personal as a feud ender should be, and the reliance on impressive visual spots just feels lazy. FU into the crowd did catch me off guard however.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Never been too fussed on Edge tbh either as a character or in the ring. I can enjoy him if he does something interesting etc but wouldn't put him anywhere near GOAT status or anything like that. I LOVED his program with Cena though. He was definitely at his best and it's about the only time I genuinely _really _enjoyed him.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Who's the better overall package then guys?

Edge or Punk?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk > Edge on the mic (I liked goofy heel Edge in 00 though)
Punk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edge in the ring
Punk's character at its best >>>>>>>>>>>>> Edge's character at his best

Punk is easily better than Edge as an overall package imo.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I hate everything HHH/Orton & Edge/Cena. You talk about over done feuds? Jesus H. Christ it felt like the wrestled every week for years....I'm glad its over. 


I always considered Edge to be a good heel, and a good talent but wildly overrated by the WWE. He was just one of Vince's "guys" and thus got shoved down everyone's throat....same as Orton (who is legitimately very good).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hmmmm lol. Let me think. 

Mic - Punk > Edge

Ring - Punk > Edge

Look - Edge > Punk

Charisma - Don't really know tbh

Characters - Rated R Edge > Pre-MITB Punk > E&C Edge > all the other Punk's > all the other Edge's

Feuds - Both have their best programs with Cena imo. I personally prefer Edge/Cena over Punk/Cena because it really only lasted like 3 weeks when it was _really _good although I'll take the latter best match

Can't think of any other categories atm. What's that tally up as then lol?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hated Edge's feud with Cena. Dull and over done, and produced crappy matches. Edge's best singles feud is probably with Foley/ECW (once Foley joined Edge).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge vs. Punk

In-ring- Punk easily
Mic- Edge 
Face- Edge
Heel- Edge
Character- Rated R Superstar>SES Punk
Charisma- Edge
Feuds- Edge/Cena and Edge/Taker>Punk/Cena and Punk/Jeff (two best feuds of each)
Look- Edge

Wow, Edge dominated more than I would've thought. Punk easily beats Edge for in ring, although everything else I have something from Edge. Edge is one of the greatest heels of all time, mainly for his 2005-2006 Rated R run. He was fucking hated, but he was so entertaining at the same time. Thing is, while Edge was never that good in the ring (except maybe in 2002), all the categories Punk lost he was still great in... it's just Edge was better, besides Punk's face runs, and Punk's look.

Edit: Also, on the topic of Edge's acting, while in the grand scheme of things acting related he was terrible, I would put him up there on the WWE Totem Pole... though he does have some really bad moments, but it can be challenging to play a psycho, especially when Edge isn't like that at all even in the slightest in real life (from what I've seen). He managed with what he was given, and otherwise his acting was better than average by WWE standards imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Edge needs to take psycho acting lessons from Orton who played the role to perfection imo in 09. Edge from 07-09 was borderline unbearable though. I also think that I hold the fact that he's a double digit world champ despite never being _that _big of a star to warrant it against him lol. He also won them all within 5 years which is fucking ridiculous. The fuck outta here with that BS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Who's the better overall package then guys?
> 
> Edge or Punk?


Microphone: Edge (I've never really found Punk convincing but listening to Edge's promos from late 04 onwards, he just has something in him that I can't point my finger at. The way he delivers his words, the intensity and his facial expressions. He sounds dead serious about what he says. Specially when it comes to backstage segments. Specially when talking about being overlooked by HBK and Benoit for Taboo Tuesday, his promo before the Taker match at WM24 and the quasi-shoot on Matt Hardy before SummerSlam. Punk is a natural talker but I don't dig his smart-ass style much. He can deliver amazing promos at times, though. Most notably the infamous "pipebomb" shoot.)

Ring skills: Equal (I really don't think I can pick a better guy on this one. Both have their hits and their misses and neither have an "explainable" wrestling style. Given the right opponent, they can deliver but neither are going to be anywhere at the top of my "greatest wrestlers" list.)

Charisma: Don't know. Neither man are the ones that show their charisma naturally or stand-out for it like Cena, The Rock or Flair.

Characters: Ultimate Opportunist/Rated R Edge is awesome and what I'm going with. Punk had something going on with that "rebellious" Voice of the Voiceless character for about a month but otherwise, I'm not a fan. SES was also very one-dimensional and repetitive. 

Look: Punk has one of the worst main eventer looks ever. Despite being so proudly Straight Edge, he looks like a homeless junkie and I don't know if he has an ounce of muscle in his body. No jokes. Edge is not exactly comparable to Batista or Mark Henry but he's got this one too.

Heel/Face: Edge is a better heel as shown by his 2005 character. He is just so despicable there, I actively root against him when watching the matches or segments. As a face, Edge is able to pull it off better since I just can't buy into Punk as a face at all. He was terrible as the sympathetic babyface in the Jericho feud and he was terrible at being Cena 2.0 with his terrible attempts at being corny.

Feuds: Both had their best feud with Cena but Edge is by far Cena's greatest rival ever so the answer is clear here. Unfortunately for Punk, his feud with Cena was cut short but it had a lot of potential. Since then, I couldn't have cared less about the restart of their feud because it is missing that natural chemistry from 2011.



Clark Griswold said:


> Did you see Del Rio's moonsault from SD last night? It kinda owned. His enziguri late in the match was pretty sick too.


Haven't watched a single Smackdown since Orton got suspended, so you can bet on me missing it. I have watched a few matches here and there, almost exclusively Orton stuff but my answer is an obvious no. I'll have to go check it out now you mention it, though. A MOONSAULT from someone like Del Rio? He's a pure athlete but due to his height, I never expected _that_.



Best In The North Pole said:


> From 2009-Present , do you know how many NEW WWE Champions there have been (that haven't won a world title in a previous year) ?
> 
> Three, and they've ALL been heels at the current time that they've won.


Let me guess, Miz, Del Rio & Sheamus?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Edge and Cena's promo on SD in 09 is fucking AWESOME. Just thought I'd throw that in there lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SANTA GAME said:


> Edge needs to take psycho acting lessons from Orton who played the role to perfection imo in 09. Edge from 07-09 was borderline unbearable though. I also think that I hold the fact that he's a double digit world champ despite never being _that _big of a star to warrant it against him lol. He also won them all within 5 years which is fucking ridiculous. The fuck outta here with that BS.


Orton is one of the best actors in WWE. I swear, his facial expressions as the Legend Killer are SOOOOOOOOOOO AWESOME. Specially when Undertaker played mind games with him or when he got eliminated at the 06 Royal Rumble. And as a psycho, he was damn great when he shaved his head bald.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I loved when Edge went crazy for the build to the Hell In A Cell Match with Taker in 2008. That segment with Mick Foley on SD I will never forget. Loads of fire from Foley and I like how Edge's character was reacting to it all.

Anyway, as a character I'd take Edge over Punk. I enjoyed Edge's feuds with Angle, Benoit, Matt H, Foley, Undertaker, and Cena over Punk's feuds overall. Punk's best feuds are with Jeff H and Cena which are both very good. On the mic they are pretty close but I prefer Edge a little more (maybe because I like his personality a bit more) but I wouldn't say he's outright better. Punk is a better worker than Edge though no doubt.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton was a completely different type of psycho character from Edge, and personally, whenever he did get "angry", he was a lot worse than Edge at times imo. Otherwise Orton was good, but his psycho character doesn't come close to the level of difficulty Edge's did.

Edge being a double digit WHC isn't really the problem (unless you have something against him), but the fact he's never had a lengthy reign is sad. There were a few occasions where they could've kept the title on him for longer than they did. For example Edge losing his 10th WHC only to win it back that night for the 11th... I have no idea why they even fucking did that. With properly managed reigns, he shouldn't have been any more than a 8 time World Champion (that being both WWE and WHC titles combined). Edge winning the title at SVS never needed to happen or back again at RR, so you could've cut those 2 out. Edge should've still won the WHC at NWO 09, kept it through Mania, BL, JD, and then lose it Jeff when he did. That would've been a nice 4 months reign there. 

It was stupid how they kept booking him to win it, only to lose it, then win it, then lose it... imo it hurt Edge's credibility, even if he does have a bigger number of title reigns.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^ Somebody at his level having that number of title reigns is a problem for me. He shouldn't be over 10. Not a fucking chance. Neither should Orton for that matter and he's only 32 or whatever he is. 

Damn I forgot that Edge/Foley promo. You know that? Maybe I'll have to rethink my stance on mic work lol. It was close before but the 2 promos mentioned are definitely up there with Punk's best stuff. Hmmm....

Orton's character performance in the I Quit match vs. Cena @BP 09 is :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge never should have lost the title at the RR 2 or 3 weeks after winning it. He was probably the hottest thing in the company at that time after he dethroned Cena. And then his title run ended up being utterly pointless aside from the TLC match with Flair. RR match with Cena was pretty garbage too. Only problem at the time though is that there were still single brand PPV's so he couldn't lose it a the Feb PPV to let Cena face HHH for the title. Guess it could have happened on Raw, maybe in the match where Foley was guest ref, added more fuel to the fire for their feud with Edge blaming Foley for losing the title and not just losing a title match.

Out of the stupid amount of title reigns Edge had, he probably only really deserved 4 or 5 of them. For some reason Vince just kept throwing belts on him. Its like Vince was thinking "oh shit, Edge isn't champ. I like him. PUT THE BELT ON HIM!!!" and then when he did, he thought "oh shit, Cena isn't champ. I like him. PUT THE BELT ON HIM!!!".


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Orton's body language and facials say more than anything his mouth says into a microphone. I can't remember anything Orton has ever said other than "Eddie in hell" other than that its all facials and body language.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^ Funny you should say that lol. Remember the segment Orton and Edge had together in 2010 where Orton didn't say 1 word but had the place going mental through his mannerisms and facial expressions? That was awesome. 

His title count is a joke. Yes, I have problems with it lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton these days just makes me laugh with the things he does. Mainly when he stats spazzing out like a retard on the mat before he goes for an RKO that never lands so he has to hit an RKO "out of nowhere!!!!!" .


----------



## Heterodox (Nov 18, 2012)

Yo, all you WWE fans need to buy my DVDs. Thanks!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah, he has started to overdo it a lot in recent times. I much more prefer the subtlety he brought to the role, especially in early 09 in the McMahon/HHH feud. He was brilliant in that.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Orton has some of the best troll faces of all time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All I have to say. One of the most awesome facial expressions ever. The Rock is also great pulling this one of.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In-ring- Punk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edge. :lol
Mic- Punk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edge
Face- Punk >>>> Edge
Heel- Punk >>>>> Edge
Character- "Best in the World" > "Rated R Superstar"
Charisma- Punk >>>> Edge
Feuds- Punk/Cena , Punk/Jeff > Edge/Cena , Edge/Taker
Look- Edge > Punk

Before you point and say "LOLZ PUNK MARK" I have to defend myself. Punk is seriously 12x the worker Edge is and I'm pretty sure I don't need to defend myself on that one. In non-gimmick matches Edge sucked balls pretty much 99 percent of the time, and the only OMG CLASSIC non gimmick match that I've ever seen from Edge was with Taker at Mania, and that's not really his doing whatsoever.

On the mic it's Punk by a landslide as well. Punk's pretty much one of the best on the mic EVER IMO , while Edge is just.... EDGE. I liked some of his 2005 and 2006 stuff I guess, but from 2007-2010 and 99-05 he was terrible on the mic. Same old "I AM AWESOME , blah blah blah" Rockstar shit that I never cared for whatsoever. Punk pretty much changed the wrestling landscape with one of his promos. Edge did NOT.

In the face department, it isn't so much that Punk is good as a face that it is Edge being one of the most god-awful faces I have ever seen. His 10-11 face run was fucking TERRIBLE, as well as his earlier run. Just straight up, cookie cutter shit that I didn't care about at all. In 2004 he was booed out of his own hometown for sucking so much as a face, think about that for a second. Punk on the other hand was actually the number 1A face for a year and did pretty damn awesome despite what some may think.

Edge is obviously better as a face than a heel and I loved his early 2006, but Punk easily has him beaten in this department as well. Punk is just a natural asshole who can make you hate him so much, and never needed to use his personal life to garner heat in a situation like Edge needed the whole Lita-Matt affair bullshit. Punk has been the best heel in the world since he turned in 2009, and it hasn't been close whatsoever.

Punk's "best in the world" character is awesome because it can be used in a face/heel/tweener scenario in various ways , either as the cocky motherfucker demanding respect, or the face trying to prove to the world, it works. The "Rated R Superstar" gimmick got REALLY fucking old after 2006, and really peaked on Edge's first title run. Like I mentioned before, it was fucking HORRIBLE from basically 07-11.

Charisma goes to Punk for me. I don't really know how to compare charisma between two as I guess Mic skills would be incorporated into this as well as other factors, I always felt Edge extremely overrated charisma during his career also.

When it comes to feuds, it isn't close whatsoever. Edge's feud with Cena sucked balls and even when I was heavy into the TV product I didn't care for it whatsoever and felt like it was so overdone over the years and so counterproductive. They tried to make Edge/Cena the new Austin/Rock it seemed like and it failed miserably. Punk/Hardy was extremely compelling stuff that actually made JEFF HARDY interesting to me, and Punk/Cena is one of the greatest feuds of all time (The Rock/Austin of this generation, except better matches  ).

Sure, Edge has a better look than Punk, but don't take this and say I'm just a blind Punk mark. It's less of me being a Punk mark and more of me believing that Edge is the most overrated wrestler of all time, trust me. The guy was good for me during like a three month period in his career, the rest of the time I just wanted him off my TV screen.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

In ring: Punk
Mic: Tie
Face: Punk
Heel: Tie
Character: Rated R > BITW > SES > E&C (All really good though)
Charisma: Punk
Feuds: Punk/Hardy > Edge/Taker > Punk/Cena > Edge/Cena

imo

Cutting Edge w/Cena from the SD after WM XXV OWNS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Here's how you fix Edge's heat and actually keep him interesting...

- Edge wins the title at NYR and WWE says "FUCK, we have to keep this momentum going even though the plan is HHH-Cena"

- Batista goes down a little later and WWE says "FUCK, we were gonna do Orton-Batista, WTF do we do now?"

- Triple H comes over to Smackdown and wins the WHC again in a battle royal, turning tweenish/faceish in the effort.

- Rey Mysterio wins the Royal Rumble

- Kurt Angle challenges the streak

Wrestlemania XXII

WWE Championship : Edge(c) vs John Cena
World Heavyweight Championship : Triple H (C) vs Rey Mysterio (PERHAPS vs Randy Orton)
Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker

- Edge is happy because he gets to main event Wrestlemania with a ridiculous amount of momentum
- Cena is happy because he gets to take the title back at Mania
- Rey still gets the title and is still happy
- Angle/Taker get their streak match
- HHH is happy because he gets another world title
- Orton is happy because he gets to ****-erotically tangle it up with Triple H.

HOW DID THEY FUCK THIS UP.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

For me it just seems everything Edge went on way too long. He seemed to feud with Cena forever to my chagrin, and when that mercifully ended he ended up on SD and began feuding with Batista & Undertaker forever. The situation with Vickie produced some of the worst crap I've ever seen on TV and the fact it involved a WM main-event (WM 25) gives me a sad. 


I like the Rated R Superstar gimmick but I hated his booking and most of the feuds and matches he was involved in. The awesome match and feud with Foley and the feud against ECW were very good though, I give him credit for those.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Here's how you fix Edge's heat and actually keep him interesting...
> 
> - Edge wins the title at NYR and WWE says "FUCK, we have to keep this momentum going even though the plan is HHH-Cena"
> 
> ...


Triple H was not gonna drop a match to Rey Mysterio. As much as I would have loved to see it. Randy would have had to be in the match anyway to take the fall and with HHH and Orton's history Mysterio would have been the third wheel. I hate triple threat matches too so. But Edge should have main evented WM that year. HHH should have just waited until 23.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

We can settle this argument right now. Edge is a HOF'er and Punk is not. Edge > Punk. Edge > Punk, Taker, HHH, Rock BUT...HBK, Flair, Austin > Edge 8*D


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> We can settle this argument right now. Edge is a HOF'er and Punk is not. Edge > Punk. Edge > Punk, Taker, HHH, Rock BUT...HBK, Flair, Austin > Edge 8*D


Where does this leave D-Von? :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clark Griswold said:


> Where does this leave D-Von? :side:


In the celebrity wing with Drew Carey.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Random change in subject... who's the greatest wrestler to never compete inside Hell in a Cell? It has to be someone FROM the modern era after HIAC was introduced, so the legends from the 80s and 90s don't count since the structure is _after_ their time. In my opinion, it has to be Chris Benoit. All the greatest from the Attitude Era have been inside it (Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley, Angle, Taker, Kane, HBK, Jericho) as have all the post-AE stars (Batista, Cena, Orton, Edge, Lesnar) but Benoit, one of the prominent guys from the last decade who could have easily fit in never had a match inside it.

If Bret Hart counts too, then he's second place.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Greatest since 1997 to never be in a HIAC ? Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, D-Von Dudley , and the list goes on.....


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guerrero was never in HIAC either, and he proved himself in blood filled hate matches.

Benoit probably would have been in a HIAC at some point had the Elimination Chamber not come around. They would have probably done some more 6 man HIAC matches inside.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't really consider modern (post-2008) HIAC matches real HIAC matches but definitely Benoit


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't consider any of the matches that have taken place at the HIAC PPV real HIAC matches tbh. The whole concept of putting a match like that on PPV annually is so ass backwards and retarded. I hate it. HATE IT.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

As a huge fan of both guys, my opinion:

*In-ring* - Punk.
*Mic* - Punk.
*Face* - Edge easily. Punk has never been a great face and Edge could play the role so naturally, just look at his work in Edge and Christian, his time from 2001-2003 and his final few years as a face. Much better. Face punk feels forced.
*Heel* - Tie. Edge in 2006 was better than anything in Punk's career, but Edge as heel in 2007/2008 I wasn't as big on. Punk's SES work and current work makes this a tie for me imo.
*Character* - Edge. His Rated R superstar in it's prime in 2006 was better than anything Punk's done, as previously said. 
*Feuds* - Edge. Edge/Cena and Edge/Matt Hardy I enjoyed more than Punk/Jeff Hardy or Punk/Cena.
*Look* - Edge without question.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SANTA GAME said:


> I don't consider any of the matches that have taken place at the HIAC PPV real HIAC matches tbh. The whole concept of putting a match like that on PPV annually is so ass backwards and retarded. I hate it. HATE IT.


I agree. From the HIAC PPV, the only feuds that needed a match with that structure were Orton/Cena and Kane/Taker. Both lengthy feuds that had been going on for quite a while. The most retarded of them has to be this year with Ryback and Punk, though. It's Ryback's first PPV main event and he's in a freaking HIAC? How ass-backwards is that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They really do need to stop with Gimmick Match PPV's. RR is perfect and will likely always be around while the company is still going. EC doesn't bother me at all because at least it makes the RTWM that bit more interesting when you aren't quite sure who is leaving the match champion, or #1 contender if they go that route. The rest can fuck off. At least they already put an end to Fatal Four Way . Get rid of HIAC for sure, and TLC. If they insist on another gimmick PPV, use the Scamble match as one. I liked that concept. Plus its more of an EC use of a gimmick which I'm ok with. They can do a tournament leading up to it to decide participants or something, then have the title match. No need to create some random arse feud and then throw them into something like HIAC just because that happens to be the next PPV. Scramble match works fine for the random match booking WWE likes these days.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I really wish they would just scrap all these gimmick PPV's. All they do is destroy the well built legacies of everything around them. The Chamber PPV has really weakened the Rumble, MITB has all but ruined the world titles, HIAC has ruined HIAC and lets not forget the ever perilous FATAL 4 WAY MATCH ZOMG THE HORROR!!!!! I hate that WWE seem so perfectly content with destroying the very foundations of what made them successful in the past. Fuckers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only "GIMMICK" PPVs really left are TLC and HIAC , no question. Minor ones would be NOC (every title must be defended) but it's not a problem at all, Extreme Rules (Every match must have extreme rules of some sort, serves as a feud extender from Mania) , Elimination Chamber works as it's just NWO with a different name, NWO is just one cage match main event which isn't a big deal.

HIAC is my least favorite PPV of the year and for good reason. TLC is usually just a fun show that has no real seriousness to it at all.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The only current gimmick PPV I like is TLC. Probably because TLC is my favorite match type and we're nearly always guaranteed a good TLC and ladder match. Don't really care for tables matches, and a chairs match can fuck off lol. Elimination Chamber is also an ok gimmick PPV, as the match quality is usually good and they tend to actually use the chamber. Which brings me to the HIAC PPV, yeah that should go. They hardly make any use of the Cell and most of time the feud isn't really as intense to warrant the use of a HIAC. Gimmick PPV's like Fatal Four Way and Breaking Point were just the worst imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC is kinda rendered useless when they have ladder matches at Extreme Rules . I'm surprised we haven't had a random HIAC match on that show yet tbh lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TLC can join the list of useless gimmick PPV's now that we have one decided by pinfall. Bad enough we had a fucking sledgehammer hanging last year lol. Now we don't even have anything!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And the funny thing is, Vince McMahon made Vickie Guerrero make the ladder match between Cena and Dolph for the MITB Briefcase because they couldn't have a ladder match with nothing to reach for :lmao.

Anyway, with the TLC match being able to end in pinfall, they've finally caught up with Smackdown 2 for 2000!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cal, do you really hate Christmas?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep.

OT: Some match = ***1/2.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Here's how you fix Edge's heat and actually keep him interesting...
> 
> - Edge wins the title at NYR and WWE says "FUCK, we have to keep this momentum going even though the plan is HHH-Cena"
> 
> ...


I would have liked to have seen them do the Backlash main event at WrestleMania if they wanted to keep Edge's momentum as WWE Champion going. I say this because Cena making HHH tap out in the main event was huge and I believe creative/McMahon felt that was more important than how hot Edge was at the time. In hindsight, Cena beating Trips was a great decision for the face of the company even at the expense of a longer title reign for Edge.

My card

Edge/Cena/Trips WWE Title
Orton/Mysterio World Title (Orton would have won the SD battle royal instead of Angle)
Angle/Undertaker 
Benoit/Finlay US Title
Foley/JBL Hardcore Match (I think this feud would have been cool (the promos!) and lead to the ECW show)

Rest of the card I'd keep the same only putting Booker in MITB


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

.......... Grinch


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Bored and it's the subject of discussion :lmao

Cena/Edge
Orton/Rey
HHH/Flair
Taker/Angle
HBK/RVD
Finlay/Benoit/Regal - Why not?  
Trish/Mickie
MITB
Kash/Noble
Maybe KaneShow/MNM Brand supremacy or something if there's time


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I hate gimmick PPVs they run the gimmick into the ground. I have yet to see a single HIAC or TLC PPV and I even stopped getting Elimination Chambers (in face I haven't seen one in YEARS) because they destroyed the gimmick.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Bored and it's the subject of discussion :lmao
> 
> Cena/Edge
> Orton/Rey
> ...


That's an interesting choice. They had that little Raw main event in 02 with the screwy finish involving HHH but I certainly would have been interested in more build and a PPV match between those Mr. WrestleMania and Mr. Pay Per View.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Clique said:


> That's an interesting choice. They had that little Raw main event in 02 with the screwy finish involving HHH but I certainly would have been interested in more build and a PPV match between those Mr. WrestleMania and Mr. Pay Per View.


Yeah. I did it basically because I personally would have had a Smackdown guy win MITB - probably Matt Hardy - so that the SD main event scene would have a new, fresh face rather than King fucking Booker. So having RVD against Michaels would have slingshotted RVD in to stardom with a good, long programme between the two. It also gets rid of that horrible (in my opinion) Shawn/McMahon feud. Kills three birds with one stone, so to speak.

It's baffling how much of a letdown Mania 22 was, and what it could have been with the talent that they had.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I actually forgot about McMahon/Michaels when I thinking about how I would re-work the card. I didn't enjoy the feud but the match at Mania was better than I expected. Michaels/RVD sounds great though. Not so sure about Matt winning MITB though. Maybe out of the guys left when you take out RVD he may be the best option. RVD was a perfect choice especially with what they did with the cash-in at One Night Stand.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You wanna talk about rebooking WM22? My fantasy booking of it would have guaranteed the greatest PPV ever!



Choke2Death said:


> *Wrestlemania 22:*
> 
> _World Tag Team Championship:_ Kane & Big Show (c) vs Carlito & Chris Masters
> _Winner:_ Kane & Big Show
> ...


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Really enjoyed HBK/McMahon at WrestleMania 22. Feud was good to. Vince put a great performance considering he was 60 at the time and the finish when HBK delivered a elbow drop from the top of the ladder onto Vince who was on a table with a trash can over his head was just epic. My second favorite match on that show behind Edge/Foley. What I can say, I'm a bit of hardcore match mark. Didn't really care for Cena/HHH.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Really like your WrestleMania 22 card, *Choke2Death*, really do. That's some fantasy booking at its finest, and I definitely would have given my money to see that. Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit? Shawn Michaels vs. Eddie Guerrero? I would've been all f*cking for it, those would've been two beyond amazing matches. Shame that neither of them happened, especially the latter since we were so very close in seeing it. As far as the other match goes, I feel WWE could've easily have done something with that in 2006, they even put them in a storyline feud on a SmackDown vs. Raw video game!

Also, I'd comfortably say that CM Punk's the better overall talent, but that doesn't take anything away from Edge. Better amount of charisma, better character, better face, better heel, better mic-skills, better ring-skills. The latter had the better feuds (John Cena in 2006, Undertaker in 2008), but that's probably about it.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, WM 22 was a letdown even though I still really liked it. All fantasy bookings seem like it would've been top 3 Manias. What are the other WMs that are the best examples of shoulda, woulda, coulda?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't think of anything Edge is better than CM Punk at. I do really love 2000 goofball backstage skit Edge and Christian, though, and they're a fun in-ring tag team. Honestly though as far as Christian tag teams go I prefer Christian/Jericho for matches. OH SHIT! Someone do Christian/Jericho v Booker T/Goldust as a series. No, seriously. It's tremendous. I watched those a few months ago. They have like five really good matches and one that I swear is close to being a WWE MOTYC for 2002. Maybe. I guess that depends on how much you like the other stuff WWE put out in 02. Regardless it's excellent.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Speaking of Christian and Jericho, I loved their feud in 2004. One of my favorites. They had a great series of matches such as at WrestleMania 20, a steel cage match on RAW, and a ladder match at Unforgiven. I have all their notable matches from their feud and I probably rate them in this order:

RAW steel cage match > WrestleMania 20 > Unforgiven ladder match > Backlash handicap match.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Watching *Extreme Rules 2010*

Tag Team Gauntlet: Sho-Miz vs Morrison & Truth/MVP & Henry/The Hart Dynasty **
I hate gauntlets. 
.
Hair match: CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio *** 1/2
Really fun performance from both guys. Crowd was really hot and very disappointed in Punk's victory (the desired result). These two make magic when they face off (nh). 
.
Strap match: Shad vs JTG *
Nobody cared about these guys at all. That's sad because they seemed to be trying hard. (TLW)
.
WHC: Jack Swagger vs Randy Orton ***
Good match. As a person that found Swagger okay as WHC I have to say I didn't even feel like this was a BIG main event style fight. It was a good match though. 
.
Street Fight: Sheamus vs Triple H *** 1/2
Sheamus won and nobody seemed to care, some rub that was. Enjoyed the match tremendously though. It was good and physical. HHH did a great job keeping up the injury angle and the stretcher write off was a great touch. 
.
Cage match: Edge vs Chris Jericho **1/2
This whole feud was lackluster as hell. This match was no different. Its not terrible but I expected so much more from these two. It came off as a match inside a cage instead of a CAGE match. The crowd wasn't into the match much at all and its hard to say whether the match put the crowd to sleep at times or whether the crowd was just a bad crowd. 


Crowd didn't seem as into it as they should have been, specifically for Edge's offensive flurries. They seemed only to wake up when Jericho tries to escape and when they think a Spear is imminent. The Super Codebreaker was awesome, too bad the crowd didn't react like they should have. Jericho's wimpering and cowardice didn't go over well at all. The crowd really sucked the shit out of this match. 

Disappointing affair, all the way around. 
.
Extreme makeover: Michelle McCool vs Beth Phoenix DUD (TLW)
.
Last Man Standing: Batista vs John Cena *** 1/4
Horseshit finish, let's get that out the way first. It was creative but made Batista look foolish and in such a Looney Tunes Elmer Fudd fashion. It was embarrassing to say the least. 


Very slow start, not much happening as the two really seem to be warming up as if they never faced each other before. 


As the match progressed It was interesting to see Batista working a body part (the knee & ankle), its rare any type of psychology comes in on Batista's part, even more shocking is that he broke out a Figure 4 Leglock to further work the body part. I guess Flair did teach Batista basic ring psychology but its rare that he actually uses it. Of course as Cena starts his 5 moves of Doom he automatically forgets all of Batista's efforts to work the knee & ankle, as he starts jumping around as if the match just started...typical JC. 


The AA on the chair spot, the wooden table spot both seemed mundane, in fact Batista forcefully ramming Cena into the ring post seemed more brutal as did he throwing Cena through the barricade. The big crowd pleaser, the AA from the steps through the announce table, woke the crowd up and was actually pretty fucking cool to see. Batista did a good job of really drawing out the most of that 9 count. 

Decent match between the two outside of the terrible finish. I personally think their first two encounters may have been better. 
.
I like the extreme rules PPV. Its the only one other than the big 4 I get every year. This particular event was okay, even though nothing particularly must-see occured.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What are the other WMs that are the best examples of shoulda, woulda, coulda?


The World Heavyweight Championship bout from WrestleMania 27 comes to mind. Instead of Alberto Del Rio, it should've been Christian challenging Edge for the title. This wouldve been the perfect and rightful final match for the latter, and the match would've been off the charts. Or at the very least, a Triple Threat.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Nice review man. I'm wondering what you guys think is the best Superstar Collection and Doc on DVD. I'm guessing Doc is Rise and Fall of ECW is mostly everyones right? I'm not sure about Superstar Collections though, I just got got two of the top ones I think in Bret Hart's and Ric Flair's first one. Looking forward to it.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

So random, but I've just noticed something...

Before - Edge & Christian
After - Christian & Chris Jericho
Then - Edge & Chris Jericho

Mind = Blown.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

No doubt in my mind if they knew about Edge's imminent retirement it would've been Christian.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Nice review man. I'm wondering what you guys think is the best Superstar Collection and Doc on DVD. I'm guessing Doc is Rise and Fall of ECW is mostly everyones right? I'm not sure about Superstar Collections though, I just got got two of the top ones I think in Bret Hart's and Ric Flair's first one. Looking forward to it.


Superstar? Jake Roberts, hands down. His documentary is unreal. Other than that Rise & Fall of ECW is the king of WWE documentaries. I like Bret's, Roddy's and Ricky Steamboat's documentaries too.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

VladMan2012 said:


> The World Heavyweight Championship bout from WrestleMania 27 comes to mind. Instead of Alberto Del Rio, it should've been Christian challenging Edge for the title. This wouldve been the perfect and rightful final match for the latter, and the match would've been off the charts. Or at the very least, a Triple Threat.


Would of loved that. (Y)

I also wish we could of seen one more Edge/Christian feud before Edge retired. Apparently I've heard the idea was pitched to creative on many occasions but it was turned down. Sad. Most likely Vince holding down Christian again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> I'm down for a series of matches as well. Is it just strictly WWF/E affiliated? How many matches as well are we talking series wise? 3 and above?
> 
> Truth be told I've seen a lot of WWF/E feuds in their entirety so I'll leave it someone else to maybe recommend something that may slip my mind. Hardy/Edge sounds like something I could do, since I adore the Summerslam war and haven't seen the Cage match for a good year and a bit. Can't remember much about their street fight on Raw and the Ladder match which ended the feud. Any other suggestions for feuds?
> 
> ...





Best In The North Pole said:


> HOORAY 4 WUNDERFUL IDEAZZZZZZZZZZZZ
> 
> Seriously, anything that gravitates my attention away from these bad DVDs onto something good is fucking awesome.
> 
> ...





FuckChristmas said:


> Seen all the Show/Undertaker matches. Wanna try and find something I've not really seen or don't remember.
> 
> I kinda wish I had wrestling fan friends. I sort of have one who watches, but he's Stupid(Tom). And I haven't seen him in about 4 months since he got his new girlfriend. And he's like the most casual fan in terms of what he likes compared to the ubersmark that I am (best way to describe how different we are lol). My best friend watched it for a while in 00-02, though I kinda think he lost interest in 01 and just kept watching a little longer for my sake (AAWWWWWWW ain't he nice?). He was a huge fan of Austin/Angle from SS 01 . Practically the only match he remembers . Having someone as passionate about wrestling as me as a real life friend would be awesome. Especially since I make videos, as I have many ideas for shows that would involve a second person who is also a fan .


I don't have the drive to search through 20 pages of discussion today so I picked out he ones that hinted towards the project created last night about watching a series of singles matches between two workers.

Has anything been set in stone or nah? b/c I'm down for all of this to get going.  (I was more focused on WWF/WWE only as the topic began, but I wouldn't object to anyone wanting to do the projects with feuds & matches from NWA, WCW, etc. Especially if the said matches trail into a different companies territory a la Hogan vs Savage)

_*on the subject of Extreme Rules 2010*_

~ I loved Jericho/Edge & the finish to Cena/Batista. Two strong matches to end the night. **** each.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

In case any of you haven't seen it yet, I would highly recommend the "Stone Cold Steve Austin: The Bottom Line on the Most Popular Superstar of All-Time" DVD. Watched it not too long ago, really great watch!

And speaking of documentaries, the "CM Punk: Best in the World" DVD is definitely going on my Christmas list, definitely. Very much looking forward to that one!


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Doesn't seem to be set in stone only one that has been was the Dean Malenko vs Eddie series. All in fun so pick what you want I would say


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Doesn't seem to be set in stone only one that has been was the Dean Malenko vs Eddie series. All in fun so pick what you want I would say


I'm pretty set on Punk vs Cena. I know I can slam through those fast. I need a back up one if I make time for it. I could do the 1989 matches between Rockers vs Brainbusters that Segunda Caida dropped. I own about 3 of their matches. I'm sure I could find the rest online. Don't think they had THAT many matches either. Enough to do a project like this at least.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*SmackDown: The Best of 2009-2010 - Disc One

**The Biggest 8-Man Tag In SmackDown History
*DX, John Cena, & The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, Randy Orton, & Legacy - ** 1/2
_October 2_

*World Heavyweight Championship - Submission Match
*The Undertaker (c) vs. CM Punk - ** 1/2
_October 23_

*Intercontinental Championship - 2 Out Of 3 Falls*
John Morrison (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***
_November 20_

*Women's Title #1 Contender's Match*
Mickie James vs. Beth Phoenix vs. Natalya - * 3/4
_December 4_

*World Heavyweight Championship
*The Undertaker (c) vs. Rey Mysterio - **
_December 25_

*#1 Contender's Steel Cage Match
*Batista vs. Rey Mysterio - **
_January 22_


*Overall Disc Score: 6/10*

- Clearly in late '09 and the early part of 2010, nothing very exciting was happening on SD. 8 man tag wasn't anything special until the last few minutes when it became fun. As was the entire feud, Taker/Punk was a letdown. The whole match was based around the "conspirators" that screwed Taker at Breaking Point. Nothing special.

- Morrison/Ziggler was easily match of the disc, but it could've been sooooo much more. They kept it relatively short for a 2/3 falls match. Ziggler looked like a million bucks (as he seemingly always does) and Morrison sold his ribs pretty well. Would've liked to see him win with something other than Starship Pain though. That would've played off the rib injury much better. This has one of the best looking Zig Zags I may have ever seen.

- The last two matches did nothing for me. You can only do the same Rey vs. Bigger Guy formula so much before it gets old. Rey gets dominated, hits a couple springboard moves, then gets kicked in the face. It's certainly entertaining to an extent but then it's just time to move on. Oh and as a disclaimer, I've seen the Taker/Rey match from the Rumble. Liked that one, not these. 

- The segments included on here are Rock's "return" to Smackdown from October 2. It's just a promo via satellite. Somewhat entertaining but he buries Ziggler (for no reason) & Punk of course. Then Punk's SES Intervention with Serena Deeb. No one in the crowd cared about that at all. Let's hope the next two discs are improvements. I want DEM DERE GEMS! unk4​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How did Mysterio vs Batista 12/18/09 not make it on there? 

SHENANIGANS


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> How did Mysterio vs Batista 12/18/09 not make it on there?
> 
> SHENANIGANS


They put that on Mysterio's Life of a Masked Man set. Probably the only match I've personally seen from the two that I'd put over **. Another odd thing is that they talked about how much of a "classic" Taker vs. Jericho was and how it was a first time meeting, and then didn't include it. Makes no sense. It's on Jericho's set so it evens out I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is it really? Damn. Now I REALLY have to own the 2nd Mysterio set.

Too bad they didn't decide to add Jericho/Kane 10/30 or Morrison/McIntyre 12/4 on the set. Really was a fan of both. Did DX vs Hart Dynasty make any set? b/c not adding that is a bit of a surprise too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^It's on the Hart & Soul DVD. DX/Hart Dynasty that is.

You should own the last Mysterio set they released. It's not as good as The Biggest Little Man which is one of the best collection of matches WWE has released. It's worth it because it's Mysterio and he's one of the most consistent performers ever. Can't go wrong there.

Random thought: Mysterio/Luke Gallows SD '10 is surprisingly a really good match. Not on any DVD though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok good. Wasn't sure if it made it or not. Good match.

I'll get it eventually. First on my list is to still obtain both of Eddie's sets. Cheating Death & Stealing Life and Viva La Raza. Never find them in stores (stores with more in-depth selection). Always forget to look online since all I seem to buy online from wrestling is TNA, Indies, etc. All WWE is usually purchased in store.

Mysterio vs Gallows 3/5/10, right? They also duked it out on 3/19/10. Although, I'm 100% sure you mean 3/5. Recall that one being the better match. Gallows winning the rematch was :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yes the first one is the better of the two if I remember correctly. I also recall Rey having some solid matches with Jack Swagger that year as well. 

I was a little disappointed with Cheating Death Stealing Life set. The documentary was just OK. It's kind of short and cuts out a lot of info on his life/career. His autobiography is much more informative. Also, other than the 2/3 Falls match with Malenko in ECW, the best matches are on other sets - Mysterio Halloween Havoc 97 (Biggest Little Man) and Lesnar (Viva La Raza). Now Viva La Raza I'd recommend because it has the infamous Judgment Day match with JBL, the Lesnar match, Cage match with Rey, No DQ with Edge, some solid ECW, WCW, & WWF stuff and comments from superstars in between the match selections.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I loved Eddie's book. Probably my favorite along with Foley's books and "Are We There Yet?". Dibiase's book fucking sucks though.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Cheating Death Eddie set features a documentary that aired on TV. I remember seeing it on UPN during Eddie's most popular period. That's why its short. I like the set too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, the Mysterio vs Swagger matches were (Y). Best being from MITB. Excellent match.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll probably purchase CDST set if I can find it for a decent/cheap price. I know it has some matches I need to own on it. Viva La Raza's set has a good bunch of what I need to own. All the WWE TV matches + WCW bouts is where it is at. Only 6 WCW matches I need on it.  I wanted more.

vs Ultimo Dragon from Slamboree made it. Solid match. TERRIBLE crowd. Well, for that match only. They're pretty awesome the rest of the show. IE the insane pop for Malenko when he removes the mask to wrestle Jericho.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

For a big Guerrero fan the set is worth a pick up especially at the price you can get it for now. Just expressing my initial reaction to the set after collecting other sets and reading the autobiography prior to watching the documentary. It's still good just wish it had more. 

Also, the Jericho Fall Brawl match which is a fantastic match is also on the Jericho DVD. Maybe the second best WCW cruiserweight match ever.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Why don't WWE just release a Best of WCW Cruiserweight Division DVD? That's really all we need.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WCW DVDs sell so well other WCW sets I'd like to see are Sting, Best of WCW Saturday Night, and War Games. Maybe a best WCW PPV matches DVD too. I also wouldn't mind in a few years another Flair set with the best stuff they have in their library (NWA, WCW, WWF, Mid-Atlantic, etc) and haven't released yet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> For a big Guerrero fan the set is worth a pick up especially at the price you can get it for now. Just expressing my initial reaction to the set after collecting other sets and reading the autobiography prior to watching the documentary. It's still good just wish it had more.
> 
> Also, the Jericho Fall Brawl match which is a fantastic match is also on the Jericho DVD. Maybe the second best WCW cruiserweight match ever.


Oh, I bet. I'd probably say the same thing after I watched it. Rise & Fall of ECW set the bar almost too high with WWE documentaries. They can give away lots. Choosing not to is the frustrating part.

Yep. I'm an insane mark for the Jericho/Guerrero Fall Brawl match. If it wasn't for Guerrero/Mysterio Halloween Havoc '97 that would probably be my favorite cruiserweight match from WCW. Off the top of my head.



jonoaries said:


> Why don't WWE just release a Best of WCW Cruiserweight Division DVD? That's really all we need.


They released a best of high flyers set. Which is EXCELLENT. btw. Must own. I will heed my own advice as I was only able to watch via borrowing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

jonoaries said:


> Why don't WWE just release a Best of WCW Cruiserweight Division DVD? That's really all we need.


As legit as that idea sounds, they'd probably just put a bunch of repeats on it. Good amount of WCW gems made it onto _Wrestling's Highest Flyers_ though. Pillman/Wright & Kidman/Juvi are :mark: Love that set.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I haven't seen the high flyers set. I didn't take it seriously after I saw HBK vs Vader being on it...unless I got it mixed up with another set


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

jonoaries said:


> I haven't seen the high flyers set. I didn't take it seriously after I saw HBK vs Vader being on it...unless I got it mixed up with another set


HBK/Vader is on it. Good match, albeit a little overbooked but I know there's others out there who love it. Seriously though, you should definitely pick it up sometime. HBK/Shelton, Eddie/Rey, Scorpio/Sabu, Pillman/Wright, Kidman/Juvi, WM 2000 Ladder Match, Eddie/Malenko, Rey/Ultimo etc. It's loaded with good shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels vs Vader from Summerslam 1996 is awesome. Why that would turn you off from buying it is incredibly odd.

http://www.wrestlescoop.com/2010/09/09/match-listing-for-wwes-new-high-flyers-dvd/

Revel in the greatness.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Michaels vs Vader from Summerslam 1996 is awesome. Why that would turn you off from buying it is incredibly odd.
> 
> http://www.wrestlescoop.com/2010/09/09/match-listing-for-wwes-new-high-flyers-dvd/
> 
> Revel in the greatness.


I have that match on the Best of the 90s and I have that Summerslam on DVD. Also considering Vader isn't exactly what I would call a high flyer despite the awesome moonsault he does. I may check it out now, one match repeat doesn't bother me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, only one repeat means it's a must own for me. Especially with quality like that.

It's $10 NEW on Amazon. Omg. Steal.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Don't forget Jericho/Ultimo Dragon from Bash at the Beach '97 is also on that "Highest Flyers" set. Awesome match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/Vader is really good. But what the fook is it doing on a High Flyer DVD?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels does THAT SUICIDE DIVE on Vader.

That's all I can think of.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah it is weird HBK/Vader is on that set. Only thing I can think of, besides the HBK dive over the top onto Vader, is the finish. Vader attempted a moonsault, missed, and HBK covered him for the win after hitting a moonsault of his own. It really is a curious add to the "Highest Flyers" set.

And as far as WWE releasing a WCW Cruiserweight set? Yes, please. But Vince put over ANYTHING WCW ever did? Ha. Good luck with that. Sucks.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well, Michaels probably WAS high during it. Did Shawn smack Corny on the ass with the tennis racquet? That'd count for something, prob.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

HBK had a good match with the 1-2-3 Kid at some point when he was the champion, they should have put that on there. 


That suicide dive on Vader was excellent though...as was his moonsault.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Well, Michaels probably WAS high during it. Did Shawn smack Corny on the ass with the tennis racquet? That'd count for something, prob.


LOL, good point.

"HBK had a good match with the 1-2-3 Kid at some point when he was the champion, they should have put that on there. "

If you mean the match from Raw in early March 1996, right before he won the title, that match is on his My Journey set.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Settled on reviewing the TEN HBK-HHH matches that span from the 90s into the 2000s. I'm going to post my pre ratings of every HBK-HHH match now and compare them when I'm finally done it all. I haven't watched a HHH-HBK match in over a year where my reviewing style and harshness has been increased substantially, I usually put my markdom aside more than ever now so expect my ratings to DRASTICALLY CHANGE ;

RAW 1996 : *** 3/4*
RAW 1997 : *N/A*
SS 02 : *******
ARM 02 : **** 3/4*
RAW 2003 : ***** 1/2*
RR 04 : **** 3/4*
BB 04 : ******
TT 04 : **** 3/4*
RAW 05 : *** 3/4*
RAW 06 : *****

Yeah, I'm expecting the Armageddon, Taboo Tuesday, and.. Well... Basically all of them to change


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> LOL, good point.
> 
> "HBK had a good match with the 1-2-3 Kid at some point when he was the champion, they should have put that on there. "
> 
> If you mean the match from Raw in early March 1996, right before he won the title, that match is on his My Journey set.


I have that set, the match I'm talking about was on Superstars after Shawn won the title. I haven't seen it in ages but it must be good if I remember a TV match from my childhood lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Settled on reviewing the TEN HBK-HHH matches that span from the 90s into the 2000s. I'm going to post my pre ratings of every HBK-HHH match now and compare them when I'm finally done it all. I haven't watched a HHH-HBK match in over a year where my reviewing style and harshness has been increased substantially, I usually put my markdom aside more than ever now so expect my ratings to DRASTICALLY CHANGE ;
> 
> RAW 1996 : *** 3/4*
> RAW 1997 : *N/A*
> ...


Damn Triple H mark thinking some of those matches were actually good. :hmm:

Good luck to you on that. I know there are some that do absolutely nothing for me. (Armageddon '02 & Rumble '04)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> I have that set, the match I'm talking about was on Superstars after Shawn won the title. I haven't seen it in ages but it must be good if I remember a TV match from my childhood lol


Interesting. I don't believe I've ever seen that one.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Settled on reviewing the TEN HBK-HHH matches that span from the 90s into the 2000s. I'm going to post my pre ratings of every HBK-HHH match now and compare them when I'm finally done it all. I haven't watched a HHH-HBK match in over a year where my reviewing style and harshness has been increased substantially, I usually put my markdom aside more than ever now so expect my ratings to DRASTICALLY CHANGE ;
> 
> RAW 1996 : *** 3/4*
> RAW 1997 : *N/A*
> ...





Yeah1993 said:


> I dare sometime to do HHH/Michaels.


I WAS KIDDING.

Actually....I think I've watched every HHH/Michaels singles match this year. Maybe watched the shitty TTTroops boot camp match last year, and I don't think I've seen SummerSlam 02. They had one on Raw in 2005? I don't think I've seen that either. Other than that.....watched them all this year. NOT RECOMMENDED. 

RANKINGS (maybe, some might need a re-watch which not even I'm willing to do):

1. Christmas 97
2. SummerSlam 02
3. Raw 5/96
4. Raw 12/03
5. Raw 3/06
10. Taboo 04
46. Bad Blood 04
111. Rumble 04
279. Armageddon 02
1866. Tribute to the Troops 05


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I would start it tonight but I still have like 8 Road Warriors matches to watch , which makes me extremely depressed. Fuck this DVD. Might as well tell you what I thought about the NWO DVD while I'm at it...

*NWO : The Revolution DVD Review*

_Disc One_

This is the prototypical WWE produced "glazing over" documentary. What I mean by that is that although we get some pretty interesting names talking with the likes of Vince Russo and Lex Luger being featured, we learn NOTHING new. If you're looking for why Starrcade 97 or 98 happened, you won't find out. If you're looking for stories about how crazy Scott Steiner ACTUALLY WAS then you will not find it on this. This is as bare bones as you can get when discussing one of the most groundbreaking stables ever. No new Hogan or Scott Hall interviews are kind of MEH considering that they were two of the three founding members of the NWO, but no Hogan is certainly understandable.

Kevin Nash has the best and most informative interview of the documentary, but again I think he should have went more in depth about certain subjects than he did. They shouldn't hold things back on a subject as controversial as the NWO, definitely not. This isn't a complete bury job of the NWO surprisingly, it's just a quick refresher of why it was as popular as it was , and how much of a fucking convoluted mess it could be at times. The doc is pretty MEH, and is one of the worse ones they've done since the shift in documentary format back in 03-04.

As for the extras on Disc One, we get a few segments that we've seen on other DVDs and a few new exclusives. The exclusive ones with Piper and Hogan are pretty interesting to say the least, as it really exposes Hogan as a one dimensional rambler on the mic, I swear to god I don't even know what he's talking about sometimes. Really entertaining though, and saves this disc from being a fail IMO.

*5.5/10*

_Disc Two_

The Outsiders vs Sting/Lex Luger/Randy Savage (Bash at the Beach 1996) : **

The Giant vs Hulk Hogan (Hog Wild 1996) : DUD

The Outsiders vs Harlem Heat (Halloween Havoc 1996) : **

The Outsiders vs The Steiner Brothers (Souled Out 1997) : ***

Hulk Hogan vs Roddy Piper (Slamboree 1997) : * ¾

Hulk Hogan/Dennis Rodman vs The Giant/Lex Luger (Bash at the Beach 1997) : ¾ *

Oh... FUCK YOU WCW. Seriously, just look at that match listing, does it just SCREAM DVD OF THE YEAR to you ? Because it REAAAAAAAAAAALLLYYYY fucking doesn't to me. Let me run down the six matches with one sentence each to describe them. BATB 96 is a very slow and plodding match that is okay I suppose, but more known for it;s famous finish than anything else. Giant-Hogan is a fucking horrible piece of shit that features 20 minutes of back rakes and knuckle locks, a match I wouldn't recommend to my worst fucking enemy. Outsiders-Harlem Heat is a slow , forgettable match that a few days later I don't remember whatsoever. Outsiders-Steiners is pretty good due to Scott Steiner being fucking awesome. Hogan-Piper is better than expected but is still a bad match with no replay value, do you EXPECT a Dennis Rodman match to be good ?

FUCK NO. By this point I was ready to just blow my brains out with a shotgun but I knew what was coming on the next disc so I had to keep the faith. This disc was one of the worst discs I have ever watched from the WWE library. SIX MATCHES, with one being good, two being MEH, and three being fucking HORRIBLE. This is NOT acceptable in 2012 whatsoever, and whoever devised this disc is a sick fuck who deserves to be placed in a SAW-like game to atone for his sins. I mean, I'm a guy who likes to get his hands on and subsequently watch whatever WWE Home Video release he can find, and this shit is just CRUEL. Major, MAJOR fail here on WWE's part.

*1.5/10*

_Disc Three_

Randy Savage vs DDP (Las Vegas Sudden Death Match ; Halloween Havoc 1997) : ******

Hollywood Hogan vs Sting (Nitro 97) : ***

Hollywood Hogan vs Randy Savage (Nitro 98) : *DUD*

The Giant vs Sting (Great American Bash 1998) : *** ½*

Hollywood Hogan/Eric Bischoff vs DDP/Jay Leno (Road Wild 1998) : ***

Roddy Piper/DDP/Warrior vs Hogan/Stevie Ray/Bret Hart vs Kevin Nash/Sting/Lex Luger (War Games ; Fall Brawl 1998) : ***

Goldberg vs Kevin Nash (Starrcade 1998) : *** ½*

Bret Hart vs Goldberg (Nitro 99) : ***

Hollywood Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall vs The Rock/Steve Austin (Raw 2002) : *** ½*

YES! YES! YES! DDP-SAVAGE on a DVD is fucking NICE and by the time I watched it, I honestly felt like giving it ******* for saving me from the shittiest matches ever, but alas, it's still the best match on this DVD by a fucking thousand miles, and the only match that's probably going to stick with me in a positive way. Now, let me explain the rest of these matches in a way that everybody will easily understand ; THEY FUCKING SUCK. Seriously, I think Vince has a hard-on for tarnishing the legacy of WCW in the eyes of today's fans, and purposely made this DVD as shitty as possible just so he could say "HA! REMEMEBR WCW?!!?!?! IT SUCKED DIDN'T IT?!?!?! I RULE" :vince , while Triple H laughs maniacally in the background. This DVD features the WORST Randy Savage match that I've ever seen, with him taking on Hulk Hogan in what is surely one of the worst matches between two main eventers that I've seen in my entire life. Hogan-Sting was... You know what ? I'm not even going to go in-depth anymore.. Fuck it.

It doesn't even matter anymore, I'm just giving everybody here an excuse to laugh at me. This DVD is a sick joke that you'd play on a dumb mark friend of yours like "hey, you wanna see what WCW was like ? Watch these matches man!". This shit made me appreciate all the good shit we get seemingly on a monthly basis from the WWE, all the ****+* matches and the memories they've given us, because if wrestling was ever angle based and gave us horrible matches like this in the main event , I'd have to stop watching wrestling or start watching ROH or something. Anyways, I've rambled on far too long about this disc. It fails, but DDP-Savage keeps it from failing as hard as the other disc. PS: Giant-Sting is actually a great little short match that needed another five minutes for sure.

*3.5/10*

_Final Thoughts_

I'm convinced ; This is probably the worst three disc DVD the WWE has ever produced. How anybody could possibly enjoy this DVD blows my fucking mind as it features two of the most lackluster discs of matches I have ever witnessed in my entire life. I know this is the part where I'm supposed to say who WILL enjoy it and who WON'T , so I'll keep it pretty concise down to a point:

- If you love wrestling, family, friends, the cold breeze of a December morning, or any of the subtle joys of life, YOU WILL HATE THIS DVD

- If you love torture, deception, and sadomasicism ... GO GET HELP .... AND YOU WILL HATE THIS DVD TOO.

- THIS DVD SUCKS. If a parent gets you this for Christmas, get emancipated. If a girlfriend gets you this for Christmas, break up with her. If a co-worker gets you this for Christmas, BURN DOWN THEIR FUCKING HOUSE. If you find this in a bargain bin for 2 dollars, just stay the fuck away. Resist the temptation to add another DVD to your collection, it's not worth that beautiful two dollars that you could give to a hobo or something. Watch DDP-Savage online and perhaps the doc if you're REALLY REALLY BORED. As for the other 85 percent of this DVD ; RUN. RUN FAR AWAY AND HIDE. Hide and dream of a world where Hogan-Giant doesn't exist.

I don't like this DVD.

*2/10*


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Man your review of the nWo DVD is wow. I agree about the documentary though, shit broke no major new ground. The story of why they did black & white, the story about how they started doing their promos was interesting. The match listing left a lot to be desired but let's not be out here like them cats was dropping 5 star classics everywhere and Vince & co. picked the worst of the worst to put on the DVD. Its not a very good set but its not a conspiracy either. 



The biggest matches the nWo were apart of were the Goldberg & Sting matches (which are on basically every WCW DVD) and the two celebrity matches (both of which make the nWo DVD but are totally shit matches). 
The Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Sting (Nitro) matches aren't that bad, they aren't as good as their more famous counterparts (in fact I think Hogan/Savage had a Cage match better than their Nitro match) but it wasn't all that bad. The War Games clusterfuck, was well, it was new to me, I didn't even know the match existed so it was cool to see. I have no clue why Hogan/Piper is on there either, its the same match from the Starrcade DVD. 


I'm good with not knowing the story of Scott Norton and his ilk though, there weren't that many nWo members worth giving a fuck about. The core 3 plus Bischoff is all people really cared about. I'm kinda salty about the match listing but I already know the nWo wasn't on that match quality tip...Savage de Gawd is all about matches but that slouch Hogan? Nah, B. I'm not surprised at all. 


I haven't watched all the matches yet, simply because its slim pickins. I watched every match on disc 2 though, Sting/Giant shouldn't have made any DVD, I don't know where that even came from. It was such a weird match and so forgettable I have no idea what's up. I remember Giant smoking and the next thing I knew it was almost over. But I feel you, I just don't think its some Vince McMahon vendetta against a company he already owns...its just a shitty box set lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The DVD is BAD. If there wasn't enough good NWO material they should have just cut it down to one disc of matches or less. OH NO... You watched the DVD too? Poor soul 

I'm watching the Road Warriors DVD with 4 matches left to go, and while this DVD so far has given me reason to slap a 5-6.5/10 (depending on how the last few matches do) on it, it is GOD compared to the NWO set. This LOD set is surprisingly entertaining ... Well... Not entertaining , and there certainly isn't a **** match on here, although the Hogan/Tenryu tag fucking OWNS and is as close as you're going to get to a **** match on a Road Warriors DVD I do believe. 

In all honesty, I'm just gonna watch some episodes of "The Simpsons" before bed and finish the DVD tomorrow. Too much Road Warriors for one night


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

wwedvdnews said:


> The official synopsis for Bret Hart’s Dungeon Collection has been released. Plus as first revealed on the 2013 WWE Home Video Schedule, we can confirm Bret “Hit Man” Hart: The Dungeon Collection will hit stores in the United States on 3-Disc DVD and 2-Disc Blu-ray on March 5, 2013.
> 
> For nearly 30 years, Bret “Hit Man” Hart travelled the globe proving he was “The Best There Is, The Best There Was, and the Best There Ever Will Be”. From his roots in his family’s own Stampede Wrestling, to the bright lights of WWE, WCW, and his watershed return to the ring in 2010, no Superstar could match his unmistakable presence in the ring. Known as the “Excellence of Execution”, he is widely regarded as the greatest technical wrestler of all time, evidenced by multiple reigns with the Tag Team, Intercontinental, WWE and World Heavyweight Championships. Now in this collection, compiled by the Hit Man himself, fans can experience Bret Hart’s best matches never-before-released on DVD. Bret takes the viewer behind each match in a brand new, revealing interview detailing the inside stories surrounding these rare matches. Over 8 hours of in-ring action is presented, including classics from the Stampede Wrestling vault as well as vintage WWE bouts against the top stars of the 80s and 90s.


This could be really good-great DVD collection. Hopefully the match list Bret chooses/chose is great which it probably will be if it's anything like his "Best There Is..." and Hart & Soul sets.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Night of Champions 2009*

1) *WWE Tag Team Championship*
Chris Jericho & Big Show(c) vs Cody Rhodes & Ted Dibiase Jr ~ **


2) *ECW Championship*
Tommy Dreamer(c) vs Christian ~ *1/2


3) *WWE United States Championship* - *Six Pack Challenge Match*
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Mike Mizanin vs Jack Swagger vs MVP vs Carlito Colon vs Primo Colon ~ **1/2


4) *WWE Women's Championship*
Michelle McCool(c) vs Melina Perez ~ DUD


5) *WWE Championship* - *Triple Threat Match*
Randy Orton(c) vs John Cena vs Triple H ~ ***1/2


6) *WWE Divas Championship*
Maryse Ouellet vs Mickie James ~ DUD


7) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Rey Mysterio(c) vs Dolph Ziggler ~ ***1/2


8) *World Heavyweight Championship*
CM Punk(c) vs Jeff Hardy ~ ***​

~ Opener had an interesting feel to it. It's heel vs heel. Fans took to JeriShow as the faces. Decent and forgettable match. I expected better. Establishes JeriShow as the new team on the scene. Their run was great.

~ Too bad Christian's legend that is his 2009 didn't show up here. Dreamer's slower workrate is what dictated the pace in this one. All of their either matches Christian upped Dreamer's work. They duke it out on PPV and it goes in the opposite direction. Shame. Again another forgettable match up. More the the extent that nothing pops out at all. Granted it does have a championship switch. One that would last until ECW would be gone from the WWE as a whole.

~ 6 pack challenge was wild and did what it needed to do. It's too bad it's chalk full of trash talent like Carlito, MVP, & Kofi. Oh, yeah Kofi is champ here btw. Had to say that since you know it happens all the time. Guy can't go one month without nabbing a belt somehow. MOTN so far. This PPV has been very average to say the least. I suppose that beats bad. Which was their last PPV The Bash. One match show that was.

~ Oh boy what's next? A REALLY SHITTY DIVAS MATCH YES! Oh sweet science kill me now this was horrid. Bitches "brawled" b/c things are personal. I think someone got make-up thrown in their face. So personal. These morons attempted a ddt ON THE BARRICADE. Nearly killed themselves. The spot was botched as the head of Melina or Michelle (too blind with anger to remember) didn't even connect with the barricade. Waste of 40 seconds to set the spot up. Sloppy. Bad. Fans didn't give a damn. Get off my TV. Oh and this is only the first of two divas matches on this event too? Great...

~ Thankfully the WWE Championship salvaged my sanity in wrestling following the divas match. Crowd was HOT~! for it too. Afraid the crap might have killed it. Pretty quality rematch here. I mean I don't have much else to add other than they brought what you would expect and it worked. Don't know which I prefer more this or WrestleMania. Maybe Mania. That one was shorter and I thought it flowed a bit better. This one had good finish. Well, not so much the interference but the RKO on Cena while holding Rhodes for an F-U rocked. Best part of the match was at the very beginning when Orton slithered out of the ring following the bell. This is when I loved that man. Miss those days. Good match.

~ Nope. This match isn't worth a review. Maryse is incredible to look at. Not so much in a wrestling ring. Mickie James was fat here. Oh and shitty too. DUD. Fuck off match.

~ YES. MOTN for me was the intercontinental championship. Really strong contest here. Loved the work done by Dolph. Even busted out the old super gut buster that Malenko did to Mysterio during the WCW days. Dolph was attempting to ground Rey, while Rey found any chance he could to bust out his quick, sudden offense to gain the advantage. Dolph was clearly on his path to showing what he could do on a bigger stage and Mysterio continued to rule with the IC title/show why he's got to be the most consistent guy ever. The fact that they changed up their rematch for Summerslam makes me love love this series more. That's brilliant.

~ Main event was underwhelming as far as the level they would reach soon after it. Still, a good match. It's grown on me more after mutliple rewatches. About all I can say there. Punk is the man. Jeff isn't doing too bad himself these days.

All in all a decent show with about 3 good matches. Rest was average or downright look away bad. Not the cream of the crop from 2009 although it moved things nicely in the year. Continued Punker/Hardy, Mysterio/Ziggler, allowed Christian to get his lengthy run with the gold, JeriShow debuted, Orton vs Cena was set into motion, and DX vs Legacy got it's legs here. It accomplished something. I still like 2009 a lot. Screw the people that don't.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TLC 2009

Benjamin/Christian - ***1/2
Morrison/McIntyre - ***
McCool/James - *
Sheamus/Cena - **3/4
Taker/Batista - **
Orton/Kofi - ***1/4
Jerishow/DX - ***3/4

- Benji/Christian was really fun. Hated how they stopped it to clean off Christian's blood. Slowed it down. Spots were pretty cool though.

- Morrison/McIntyre was a decent match.

- Sheamus/Cena was a little slow for me. The end always makes me wonder if that table outside the ring was supposed to be set up for Sheamus to go thru. He falls so close to it. But probably not. Decent match but not really worthy of a WWE title match.

- HATE Batista/Taker here. It might be because they can put on classics and this just falls so short due to a lame ass gimmick. Heel Batista owned but CHAIRS MATCH ruined this match. Not to mention the weak ass chair shot to Taker that ends it, the restart of the match due to a goddamn low blow and the immediate finish after that. Really didn't enjoy this one despite the great chemistry the two have.

- Kofi/Orton was solid, imo. Loved the spot on the outside where Kofi dove off the ropes and Orton caught him with the dropkick. Match made Kofi look pretty good though, tbh. Probably one of his best performances in the company and by far the best days of his character.

- Main event is loads of fun. The spot with Jericho on Show's shoulders was epic although Jericho looks like he dies at the end. Plenty of creative stuff in this match and with two guys that you wouldn't expect using ladders, it worked. Interesting that this main evented but I can agree with it since the two title matches were lackluster.

-----------------------------

Damn Cody, NOC '09 sounds really iffy after reading that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've yet to see all of TLC '09. Always forget to borrow it from my brother. Next time I see him I'll swap NOC with it. Want to see the final two matches on it. Heard the TLC was pretty rad & Orton vs Kofi did work. Judging by your ratings, Brye, I'm gonna believe the hype.

tbf, NOC isn't really THAT bad pardon the Divas matches that I royally abused. They deserved it. Like I said rest was either really good or passable in a forgettable sense. It's one of those split PPVs - where half is good and half is blah. I'll nudge it in the area of "easy to watch". Skip the divas matches to make that more credible. 

Everyone should at least check out Mysterio vs Ziggler. I'll pimp that out to people. Summerslam '09 was better. Both matches are well worth seeing multiple times, imo.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> OH SHIT! Someone do Christian/Jericho v Booker T/Goldust as a series. No, seriously. It's tremendous. I watched those a few months ago. They have like five really good matches and one that I swear is close to being a WWE MOTYC for 2002. Maybe. I guess that depends on how much you like the other stuff WWE put out in 02. Regardless it's excellent.


If you can assist with dates I'll happily watch the series. I remember loving the Booker/Goldust team and it'll be good to see Goldust back when in 02 considering how good he looked in 2009 and 2010. Think I recall you loving one of their PPV matches, so guessing that might be the MOTYC?

Speaking of an overlooked tag team series, I'd recommend the Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT series from 2003 to anyone. They have 3 really great TV matches, with 5/22 being incredible. A lot of the feud is built on Team Angle wanting to be champions by the time Angle returns to Smackdown from his injury, so the feud runs from May-July and culminates the week before Angle returns IIRC. Its fabulous. The Judgement Day Ladder match is probably the weakest match in the series, but I could totally see someone a bit more appreciative towards tag team ladder matches really digging it.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I could do the 1989 matches between Rockers vs Brainbusters that Segunda Caida dropped. I own about 3 of their matches. I'm sure I could find the rest online. Don't think they had THAT many matches either. Enough to do a project like this at least.


:mark: Please do. Its a brilliant series of matches and the ones I watched from 89 were all on youtube (and I'd be shocked if they're not up on Dailymotion either). Pinnacle of WWF/E tag team wrestling. That being said I'd love if someone decided to do an in depth review of a few more Rockers matches. The Powers of Pain and Orient Express Royal Rumble 1991 matches jumping out immediately.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segunda Caida said:


> If you can assist with dates I'll happily watch the series. I remember loving the Booker/Goldust team and it'll be good to see Goldust back when in 02 considering how good he looked in 2009 and 2010. Think I recall you loving one of their PPV matches, so guessing that might be the MOTYC?
> 
> Speaking of an overlooked tag team series, I'd recommend the Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT series from 2003 to anyone. They have 3 really great TV matches, with 5/22 being incredible. A lot of the feud is built on Team Angle wanting to be champions by the time Angle returns to Smackdown from his injury, so the feud runs from May-July and culminates the week before Angle returns IIRC. Its fabulous. The Judgement Day Ladder match is probably the weakest match in the series, but I could totally see someone a bit more appreciative towards tag team ladder matches really digging it.
> 
> ...


The PPV match from those teams was No Mercy 2002. Armageddon 2002 could also count. That one was a four way elimination that had a bulk of the match down to a standard tag team affair between Jericho/Christian & Booker/Goldust. It was lost of on me that they worked more matches except for those two.

Looked it up and Rockers/Brainbusters have 6 bouts:

11/15/88
MSG 1/23/89*
1/24/89*
Saturday Night's Main Event 2/16/89 (aired 3/11/89)
MSG 3/18/89*
Saturday Night's Main Event 10/31/89 (aired 11/25/89)

Asterisk implies the ones I own. Favorited two from youtube already. I'm doing this. Like right now even. I just have to find that first one, which I think I did via youtube atm. It appears to be a non-match that transitioned into a brawl. So I wonder if I should even count it. Plus, there seems to be a match from the Boston Garden with the same date as the March MSG match I listed. That leaves me to wonder if the location was wrong via the site I used and I own a completely different rematch from MSG. It ends in DQ. I need to find it.

Oh, and speaking of other Rockers matches. Am I the only guy who thinks this match is loads of fun?






The Rockers. The only team that I can name that gives Midnight Express a run for their money as my favorite tag team ever. Arn & Tully are DAMN close themselves.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rockers Vs Brainbusters matches:

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)
Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Living up to your namesake. You're a king.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> The Giant vs Hulk Hogan (Hog Wild 1996) : DUD
> 
> Hollywood Hogan vs Randy Savage (Nitro 98) : *DUD*


Damn, now you've made me wanna watch these matches. :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You wouldn't be laughing if you had to sit through that garbage 

Savage is one of my all time favorites , and to watch him compete in such a horrible match really just fucking tore my heart it. Atleast when Lesnar or Trips wrestles in a shitty match, it's HIGHLY entertaining (besides Survivor Series 2008 of course).

Since I love introducing a new subject to this thread every 10 minutes, who was your favorite wrestler from every single era ? I'm going to break it down into six eras ; Pre-Hogan , Hogan , New Generation, Attitude Era, Ruthless Aggression Era, and PG Era. When I say "favorite from that era" it means they were predominantly popular during that era. If they became a star in the attitude era but stayed around until the ruthless aggression era, they are still an attitude era star.

Pre-Hogan : "Superstar" Billy Graham (LOVE this guy honestly, despite his complete insanity now)
Hogan : "Macho Man" Randy Savage
New Generation : Bret "Hitman" Hart
Attitude Era : "The Game" Triple H
Ruthless Aggression Era : BROCK LESNAR
PG Era : CM Punk


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Have no chance in picking anyone since I know nothing about the Pre-Hogan or the Golden/Hogan Era so I'll skip those. Also limited on New Generation, but at least I can pick somebody.

New Gen: Bret Hart
Attitude Era: STONE COLD
Ruthless Aggression: Chris Benoit
PG Era: Randy Orton

If the latter three don't count since they were popular before the era I picked for them, then it's:

AE: THE ROCK
RA: Orton
PG: SHEAMUS


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Hogan -* Andre The Giant
*New Gen -* Bret Hart
*Attitude era -* Chris Jericho/HHH/Kurt Angle 
*Ruthless Aggression -* Chris Benoit/BORK
*PG Era -* CM Punk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pre-Hogan : BOB FUCKING BACKLAND
Hogan : Jake Roberts
New Generation : THE UNDERTAKER
Attitude Era : THE UNDERTAKER
Ruthless Aggression Era : 4 Way Tie: THE UNDERTAKER, Benoit, Guerrero, Lesnar
PG Era : CM Punk


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BOB really grew on me since I started coming to these forums. If I take ANYTHING away from being on here instead of spending time with my loved ones, or studying.. Or doing anything else... It'll be that I finally got a taste in classic wrestling (when I say classic, I mean PRE-Hogan). Fair Trade, right ? 

Just watched an interview with BROCK talking about The Undertaker from a few years ago. Yeah, there's some legit heat there, and I doubt Taker wants to get in the ring with probably the only guy who can legit KILL him if he wanted to. We're getting Punk/Taker and I think at this point that might be the best scenario, only if Punk keeps the title at the Rumble. Brock SHOULD wrestle Taker at Mania, and maybe he will because of their mutual respect on an entertainment level, but my bet's on Brock-Rock and Punk-Taker as the main draws to Mania, with Cena being kind of in the background due to him probably main eventing XXX and the fact that he's been in high profile matches for the past 8 years at Mania. Perhaps Cena gets thrown in with Brock-Rock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I doubt Undertaker wouldn't want to get in the ring with Lesnar because he's an MMA guy who could "legit kill him" if he wanted to . Even a guy like Lesnar who isn't exactly passionate about the business would have far too much respect for a guy like Undertaker in the ring to try anything. Would seriously :mark: if they do end up facing each other, but I'm definitely thinking Punk is the guy Undertaker is going with this. As for heat between the two, not surprising that its there as Undertaker was one of THE guys to really make Lesnar (Rock dropping the belt was the other main one), and then Lesnar just up and left after 2 years.

And lets not forget there is apparently some heat between Undertaker and Punk going back to 09 (based around clothes if the dirtsheets are to be believed :lmao. IMO its probably down to Punk's attitude as he's well known for being a bit of a prick lol).


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

New Generation : Shawn Michaels
Attitude Era : Hardy Boyz? I love me some Ladder/TLC matches. Singles I guess Stone Cold
Ruthless Aggression Era : Lesnar
PG Era : CM Punk


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

watched the best Falls Count anywhere DVD (on NetFlix). Pretty good; some matches were way too long. I always love finding out about veterans (today) who started way back. I didn't know Al Snow wrestled. I didn't know Teddy Long was a manager back in 1990! I forgot how awesome Booker T. was in the ring. My favorite match was the street fight between Vince and Shane MacMahon.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hogan : Randy Savage
New Generation : HBK
Attitude Era : Kane
Ruthless Aggression Era : Umaga
PG Era : CM Punk


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Pre-Golden: N/A
Golden: Savage
NGE: Undertaker/Shawn Michaels
Attitude: Undertaker
RAE: Undertaker/Chris Benoit/Shawn Michaels
PG: CM Punk


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Golden Era - Randy Savage.
New Generation Era - Shawn Michaels.
Attitude Era - Undertaker, Steve Austin.
Ruthless Aggression Era - Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit.
PG Era - CM Punk.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

I've started my project of watching every episode of WWE Superstars and I'm a couple months in. I'd just like to point out that Evan Bourne vs. Paul Burchill from 4/30/09 is a hidden gem. Great great match. ***1/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAmipvAu1mk

WATCH THIS.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

U.S. Title Match (10/28/89):*Brian Pillman vs Lex Luger (c) ***** (from Brian Pillman's Loose Cannon DVD)


Pillman is awesome. His offense is explosive and his agility was really on display here and the crowd was eating it up. Luger did a good job of selling frustration and somewhat keeping up with the quicker opponent. Luger is actually good here bumping for Pillman's offense and generally making Brian look credible. DAT springboard clothesline thooooooough....awesome put Punk's to shame that's for sure. 
.
Luger's offense is rather rudimentary, as expected, but it looks really effective. His clotheslines actually look devastating and when he's on offense he looks dominant. Pillman also did a great job bumping for Luger and the crowd took attention and gave Luger some really good reactions at times. Luger did botch an atomic drop but that was a minor mishap, no points taken away from his performance. 
.
Decent finish to the match as well. This is actually a very, very good match. I can't believe I'm speaking highly of a Lex Luger match (Jesus Christ) but it is very good. Both guys put in some great work. If you've never seen it or haven't see it in a long time, its really enjoyable. 
.
New Topic: what are some of Lex Luger's best matches and who do you think he had his best match with?


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

*Hogan era:* Randy Savage
*New Generation:* HBK
*Attitude Era:* Steve Austin
*Ruthless Aggression Era:* Eddie Guerrero
*PG Era:* CM Punk

I think.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

New Generation - The Undertaker
Attitude - Austin
Ruthless Agression - Eddie Guerrero 
PG Era - CM Punk


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

jonoaries said:


> .
> New Topic: what are some of Lex Luger's best matches and who do you think he had his best match with?


Luger's matches with Flair are his best and Flair is undoubtedly his best opponent as well. Check out their stuff at Great American Bash 88, Starrcade 88, Starrcade 89, and WrestleWar 90. 

EDIT - another good Luger match was him teaming with Sting vs. The Steiners.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

mk92071 said:


> I've started my project of watching every episode of WWE Superstars and I'm a couple months in. I'd just like to point out that Evan Bourne vs. Paul Burchill from 4/30/09 is a hidden gem. Great great match. ***1/2
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAmipvAu1mk
> 
> WATCH THIS.


Wow that was pretty good, I miss these guys. Is this there only match together ever?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

vs Ricky Steamboat @ GAB 89. Fucking AWESOME match.

I don't take the "Punk" rumors with as much legitimacy as I take the "Lesnar" ones simply because of the fact that Lesnar HIMSELF came out and said there was beef, and it sounds like a personal/family thing which makes me wonder. Couple that with the fact that Taker CHOOSES his opponents at Wrestlemania and seemed to have picked HHH the past two years because it's somebody he could trust to steal the show. I think if Taker called up Vince or vice versa within the last few months with the discussion of who he will face at Mania, Taker said without a doubt "Punk", or perhaps even "Cena". 

I think they brought Lesnar in with the intentions of having him work a program with the Rock at Mania. Rock and Lesnar get along, and Rock needed an opponent for Wrestlemania XXIX. Brock is the biggest possible name for him to face, Rock LOVES the box office, so there we go.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Wow that was pretty good, I miss these guys. Is this there only match together ever?


Yeah, Matthews and Striker say that they had a match on ECW the week prior.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nice to see Luger/Steamboat GAB getting a mention. Funk/Steamboat is also incredible and a beautiful psychotic heel performance from Funk. Plus anytime Steamboat gets given a set of balls and works a more physical match is always good news.

Luger/Flair is a terrific series indeed and Luger is responsible for a lot of what made the matches great. Of course Flair's formula is designed to make almost any opponent look stellar but Luger at that point really should get more appreciation. I hear stories he also showed glimpses of talent later on in WCW but can't remember much about what matches/performances were pimped.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Four Horseman doc yesterday, loved every minute of it, great stuff, they made that whole 'stable' thing look so real, and the original inception of the Horseman is still all gold.

Oh Paul Roma - Fuck right off you pathetic prick.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao Paul Roma. What a guy. He makes someone like Rock look GOAT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> WCW DVDs sell so well other WCW sets I'd like to see are Sting, Best of WCW Saturday Night, and War Games. Maybe a best WCW PPV matches DVD too. I also wouldn't mind in a few years another Flair set with the best stuff they have in their library (NWA, WCW, WWF, Mid-Atlantic, etc) and haven't released yet.


WWE are supposed to be releasing a 'best of' War Games DVD Set next year, probably be cancelled though.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Fuckin Paul Roma....


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> If you can assist with dates I'll happily watch the series. I remember loving the Booker/Goldust team and it'll be good to see Goldust back when in 02 considering how good he looked in 2009 and 2010. Think I recall you loving one of their PPV matches, so guessing that might be the MOTYC?


I actually don't remember which one I thought was the best one. :lol I THINK it was the Raw after Armageddon (or a Raw in December, anyway). I'm pretty sure it wasn't on PPV. Armageddon they have a four way elimination team match with Regal/Storm and some other other team I forget. The Dudleys, maybe. At least Christian/Jericho and Booker/Goldust end the match, but it's probably the least match they had. When I can arsed I'll collect links and dates and stuff later today.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YAY, now I'm about to reach Raw Homecoming but I'll save it for tomorrow. Right before it, though, I watched another Velocity match between Benoit and Regal. Another great match with Regal being more dominant on the offense. ***3/4. Just curious, which one is the 'classic' everyone praises from Velocity? Is it the July one where Benoit wears black tights or this one where he wears his yellow SVR 2007 attire?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Pretty sure it's 7/16/05.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Pretty sure it's 7/16/05.


I figured that'd be the one. The one I just finished is from 1/10/05. (October)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

@Yeah1993: cheers. Looking forward to watching the matches.

Benoit/Regal classic from Velocity is the July 05 match, followed by their No Mercy 2006 encounter. You can't really go wrong with the pairing at all. Been a while since I saw the other Velocity match, but I remember it being a little below their best efforts. If you haven't seen either match, then the Brian Pillman Memorial Show match from 2000 and the New Japan (1995?) match between them are probably their next two best matches after Velocity 05 and No Mercy 2006.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw Booker T & Goldust Vs Christian & Chris Jericho matches that I could see:

October 21st 2002 (6 person with Victoria and Trish)
December 2nd 2002
December 23rd 2002
June 2nd 2003


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

(Y) You're a star Cal. I'll have a search for links and see what I can do.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I haven't seen any of these Regal/Benoit matches. I've seen the one on Benoit's DVD.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Benoit/Regal 5/25/00 (Brian Pillman Memorial Show): http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr...brian-pillman-memorial-iii_sport#.UMUF4Xcybk8

Benoit/Regal Velocity 7/16/05: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb...illiam-regal_sport?search_algo=2#.UMUGIHcybk9

Their New Japan 1995 match has sadly been taken down from youtube.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pillman Memorial Show being on the Benoit DVD is :mark:. Always like when they put somewhat rare footage like that on official sets. Plus I believe its the match that got Regal rehired by the company in 2000.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FuckChristmas said:


> Raw Booker T & Goldust Vs Christian & Chris Jericho matches that I could see:
> 
> October 21st 2002 (6 person with Victoria and Trish) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm...tian-victoria-raw-10-21-02_sport#.UMUM0oMsnSg
> December 2nd 2002 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm...an-tag-title-match-12-2-02_sport#.UMUMpYMsnSg
> ...


Yup, nice one. Added links. The best I thought was definitely one of the ones in December, I'm sure of it. I was sure there was another one between August and November. Probably isn't. Don't forget No Mercy 2002, btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Couldn't see another one, but I could have missed it. I did see a few matches with Christian/Jericho Vs Booker & random partner, one of them that oddly interested me the most was Goldberg in 03 .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I saw that youtube a few minutes ago. Looks interesting. 

I'm probably confusing another match in the series with Lance Storm as Christian's partner instead of Jericho. Seems to be a lot of those.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with the Austin/Jericho/Benoit triple threat from King of the Ring 2001. A hell of a match and highly entertaining throughout. Didn't like the finish but I guess that's all they could do since Benoit broke his neck from that Back Superplex. Also a shame that the crowd was dead for pretty much the entire match. ***3/4.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Just watched The Rock vs. Chris Benoit from Fully Loaded 2000. Excellent match, excellent! Always found their feud to be highly enjoyable, vastly underrated, and very interesting throughout. But oddly enough, I've never got around to seeing this match, until now that is. Rock = best mic-worker of all-time. Benoit = best ring-worker of all-time. Both guys have a perfection in their respective opposite traits.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Turns out I have much more studying to do than I originally planned.....

This means I won't be able to watch any of my DVDs until Tuesday night which is super-depressing. I still have to finish the Road Warriors DVD, which will be completed alongside the HBKSC on Tuesday night, then it's a bunch of ECW matches for me......... YAY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rock vs Chris Benoit (FL) - ****3/4 - I'm the biggest mark for this match here. Absolutely love it. Completely epic but would have been perfect had Benoit won the title.

Just rewatched Jericho/Benoit from RR2001 too. Even better than I remembered it being. So many crazy spots they go through. ****1/2.



Best In The North Pole said:


> *Turns out I have much more studying to do than I originally planned.....*
> 
> This means I won't be able to watch any of my DVDs until Tuesday night which is super-depressing. I still have to finish the Road Warriors DVD, which will be completed alongside the HBKSC on Tuesday night, then it's a bunch of ECW matches for me......... YAY.


I feel your pain. I have about 15 different things to complete and I plan to get as much of it done before Christmas as possible. My lazy ass always leaves things for the very end and I've avoided it for way too long to continue any further. Therefore, I may have to cut the amount of time I have for the fun stuff in the next couple of weeks to get all that crap over with and relax for the two week holiday that follows.


----------



## HellFirenBrimstone (Jun 29, 2012)

anybody know where i can get a hold of some old episodes of raw?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

XtremeWrestlingTorrents?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*SmackDown: The Best of 2009-2010 - Disc Two

**Money In The Bank Qualifier
*John Morrison vs. R-Truth vs. Dolph Ziggler - ** 1/2
_February 26_

Edge vs. The Miz - ** 1/4
_February 26_

The Undertaker vs. Drew McIntyre - *
_March 19_

*RAW vs. SmackDown 10-Man Tag*
Kane, Dolph Ziggler, Matt Hardy, Drew McIntyre, & Shelton Benjamin vs. Christian, MVP, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, & Evan Bourne - ** 3/4
_March 26_

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Jack Swagger (c) vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho - ***
_April 16_


*Overall Disc Score: 5.5/10*

- The MITB qualifier went a little long and had a ridiculous amount of pinfall attempts, but the bump Ziggler took at the end was sick as fuck and I loved the finish. Edge/Miz was technically fine but nothing memorable. Just an easy rub for Edge on his return.

- AWESOME inclusion on here from the beginning of the Punk/Mysterio feud. It's when Rey brings his family out to the ring to sing Happy Birthday to his daughter Aaliyah. Punk & the S.E.S. come out to interrupt and Punk goes full blown asshole and rips into Rey & his family. It's so fuckin good.

- Every single month on this set has featured a piece about McIntyre where they talk about how much of a roll he was on, how he was handpicked by Vince, his undefeated streak, IC Title reign, etc. So they decide the first match they'll show from him is a squash against The Undertaker... Who's picking this shit? :striker

- 10 man tag had some fun moments and good showings from Shelton, Christian, & Bourne. Funny moment when Bourne goes up top and Todd Grisham says, "Evan Bourne getting high as he loves to do." :lmao Irony. Swagger's cash in is included in full. I still kinda mark out even though his reign was pretty terrible.  Triple Threat World Title match was pretty good, couple nice nearfalls but Swagger looked a little lost whenever he wasn't doing a belly to belly suplex or his running splash.

- Does anyone remember when Edge & Christian switched shows and they tried to turn Edge heel? Oh my god that shit was bad. It's a segment where Christian comes out and basically says hey Edge, you're a liar. You were using the fans. So Edge's response is, you're right! The crowd didn't react whatsoever. Terrible attempt to turn him, terrible inclusion. Disc 3 better have some damn good matches or this set's goin down the shitter.​


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Thunderdome Match:* Sting & Ric Flair vs The Great Muta & Terry Funk***3/4

"Electrified cage"? C'mon WCW....fuck is that? The rules is a little weird too, the only way to win is for a manager to throw in the towel...its so convoluted. I hate over gimmicked gimmick matches. So this match starts off with a really low expectation from me. 
.
The match is pretty good. Really back and forth, the offense everybody is pretty crisp. The purpose of Muta & Funk climbing the cage is lost on me. However the chopfest in the upper corner of the cage with Flair swinging like Tarzan was pretty cool. Funk literally got the snot beat out of him in that corner. Sting swinging into Funk was pretty cool too. Funk didn't seem to be interested in the match at all he didn't even make an effort to help Muta at times. 
.
The match made took an interesting turn when Sting got himself tied to the cage in the corner leaving Flair to get double teamed for awhile. All that set up an epic Sting dive from the cage into the ring (awesome). Another epic Sting spot the big time body splashes from the top rope while Funk was in the Figure 4 which ultimately lead to the win. 
.
For all intents and purposes the match was okay, things got chaotic which isn't bad but it also didn't make much sense. Why was Muta & Funk so enamored with that cage? There was no plan to leap from it, no point in trying to escape it or anything, it just seemed dumb. I think this match would have been so much better without the silly gimmick cage. The finish while it made sense because Funk was being devastated with Sting splashes while in the Figure 4 it was so anti-climatic and so much was going on that it was seemingly impossible to keep up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll chuck in my two cents:

Pre-Hogan: Bob Backlund
Hogan: Randy Savage
New Generation: The Undertaker
Attitude Era: The Undertaker & Mick Foley
Ruthless Aggression Era: The Undertaker, Eddie Guerrero, & John Cena
PG Era: CM Punk & Chris Jericho



Choke2Death said:


> Just got done with the Austin/Jericho/Benoit triple threat from King of the Ring 2001. A hell of a match and highly entertaining throughout. Didn't like the finish but I guess that's all they could do since Benoit broke his neck from that Back Superplex. Also a shame that the crowd was dead for pretty much the entire match. ***3/4.


****1/2 for me. Like I said, I'm probably the biggest advocate of the match. It's brutal. Almost unintentionally on a lot of spots.



Choke2Death said:


> The Rock vs Chris Benoit (FL) - ****3/4 - I'm the biggest mark for this match here. Absolutely love it. Completely epic but would have been perfect had Benoit won the title.
> 
> Just rewatched Jericho/Benoit from RR2001 too. Even better than I remembered it being. So many crazy spots they go through. ****1/2.


***** for the Ladder match.

Haven't seen Rock/Benoit in years. I know I hold it in high regard. How could someone not? It's stellar. Actually felt like Benoit had a chance to win.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Damn Cody, what's your ******* match listing looking like ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

From WWF/WWE or total? b/c I have about 12 off the top of my head from WWF/WWE.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Okay I'm compiling a "buy" list of WWE DVDs from Amazon and I don't have any of the DX sets are any of them any good?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just WWE for now , I wanna see where we compare in terms of What matches you have rated ******* , how many, and SHIT LIKE THAT BROOOOO :hhh

GETITDONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The first set has the kayfabe interviews on it. So if you liked DX and all the players they feuded with the first time around then I'm sure you'll like it. New & Improved DX is pretty loaded overall. It literally involves all aspects of their 2006 return. Well almost all. It ends with the Survivor Series 2006 match which is mid way during the DX vs Rated RKO feud.

The second one is much of the same sans doc. It focused on everything they did during the 2009 - 2010 run. The Blu-Ray extras are boss, but they aren't too exclusive pardon the triple threat tag match from MSG.

So if you dig DX during either point then I'll say they are worth it. Also helps if you don't own any of their PPVs bouts.

EDIT ~ I'll do it following the next post so I don't double post atm.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ummmmm.....More people should watch the Kane/Albert matches. KANEACANRANA!

There, a post!

NOW GO WITH THE FIVE STARZES


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KANE~!

The Rockers vs The Brain Busters ~ _MSG 1/23/89_
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart ~ _WrestleMania X_
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart ~ _Summerslam 1994_
Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon ~ _WrestleMania X_
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin ~ _WrestleMania 13_
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels ~ _Badd Blood 1997_
Cactus Jack vs Triple H ~ _Royal Rumble 2000_
Edge & Christian vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz ~ _Summerslam 2000_
Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit ~ _Royal Rumble 2001_
Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit ~ _Royal Rumble 2003_
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit ~ _WrestleMania 20_
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit ~ _Backlash 2004_
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels ~ _No Mercy 2008_
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels ~ _WrestleMania 25_
John Cena vs CM Punk ~ _Money in the Bank 2011_

I'm kind of a mark for ladder matches. Also never realized how many Shawn Michaels matches made my list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Marked @ Rockers/Buster being on there.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Nice list man, what's yours BITNP?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Marked @ Rockers/Buster being on there.


I could see myself adding more when I watch all of them. Quite a bit of tag team matches already that I have close to the mark as it is.



SaviorBeeRad™;12359851 said:


> Nice list man, what's yours BITNP?


Never mind :lmao


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Best in the North Pole haha Paul Heyman Guy, idk what he wants to be called.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgive my brainfart. I just realized that. I'll blame the booze.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hayley JOY what are your favourite DDP matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> Hayley JOY what are your favourite DDP matches?


vs Randy Savage ~ _Spring Stampede 1997_
vs Randy Savage ~ _The Great American Bash 1997_
vs Randy Savage ~ _Halloween Havoc 1997_
vs Bill Goldberg ~ _Halloween Havoc 1998_
vs Sting ~ _Nitro 4/26/99_
vs Raven & Chris Benoit ~ _Uncensored 1998_
vs Raven ~ _Spring Stampede 1998_
w/Chris Kanyon & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn ~ _Bash at the Beach 1999_
vs Chris Benoit ~ _Road Wild 1999_
vs Chris Benoit ~ _SuperBrawl 1998_
vs Eddie Guerrero ~ _Starrcade 1996_

Among some others from the year 1996 - 1999. Such as the series vs Marc Mero before he blew up as a mega face. Tbh, he even had matches that were good/solid during 2000 & 2001. He was probably the hardest worker during all of those years.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

vs Raven & Chris Benoit ~ Uncensored 1998
vs Raven ~ Spring Stampede 1998
w/Chris Kanyon & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn ~ Bash at the Beach 1999

I'd have to re watch these as I don't remember them. Star ratings?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

****
****
***3/4

_Uncensored Part One_ ~ 



_Uncensored Part Two_ ~ 




_Spring Stampede_ ~ http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf...-dallas-page_sport?search_algo=2#.UMVyq4PBF8E

_BATB Part One_ ~ http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs...triad-1-of-2_sport?search_algo=2#.UMVyW4PBF8E

BATB Part Two is located right next to the video via the suggested list.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Best in the North Pole haha Paul Heyman Guy, idk what he wants to be called.


He'll always be *K1ngsOfK1ngs* to me. 

This Smackdown set is killing my love for wrestling, guys. Sooooo much averageness. :damn


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm so surprised by that too. I remember loving the hell out of that time for Smackdown. Was I naive or something?!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I'm so surprised by that too. I remember loving the hell out of that time for Smackdown. Was I naive or something?!


They're probably just not presenting it well honestly. The match listing is squarely based on name value in my eyes. All the segments have been terrible (Edge/Christian) or forgettable (Cutting Edge) bar the Punk/Mysterio thing. McIntyre/Hardy sucked all the life out of me. Such a frustrating match. I just had to turn it off for the night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Looked a the match listing. Looks good on paper. Could be better. I don't know why they didn't put Punk vs Mysterio from February on it. Or one of those Swagger vs Morrison matches.

I can't remember the McIntyre vs Hardy match for the life of me. Think that was the lengthy one. I liked a 5 minute match they had on 8/13.

Christian vs. Drew McIntyre 7/30/10. That's where the set will feel worth it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, the lengthy one. Drew DOMINATES the entire match. Crowd responds to nothing bar a random move from Hardy hear and there. Then he randomly wins with a sudden twist of fate. Wayyyyy too long of a match to give me that kinda finish.

And there certainly had to be a better choice from Punk/Mysterio than the one they put on here. Basic match (sloppy at times) with a non finish that accomplished nothing.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> ****
> ****
> ***3/4
> 
> ...


just watching the first match now. been great. you forgot part 3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, the lengthy one. Drew DOMINATES the entire match. Crowd responds to nothing bar a random move from Hardy hear and there. Then he randomly wins with a sudden twist of fate. Wayyyyy too long of a match to give me that kinda finish.
> 
> And there certainly had to be a better choice from Punk/Mysterio than the one they put on here. Basic match (sloppy at times) with a non finish that accomplished nothing.


Maybe I'll watch it and compare it to where I have the short match at. By the sounds of it the short match is where it accomplished something.

It was build towards Over The Limit iirc. That's all it served. The February match OWNS.



KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> just watching the first match now. been great. you forgot part 3


Shoot. My bad.

~!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Triple german suplex spot was so good. DDP was so fucking over.
:lmao at the diamond cutter through the table. man that was brutal


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GREAT match. Those wars vs Raven brought out so much fun. I don't think they had a bad match when any of those three duked it out in singles competition. Sticking them in the same match together was :mark:

While it lacks DDP, the tag match of Raven & Perry Saturn vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko from Spring Stampede 1999 is one of the best WCW put out in the later years. Must watch, imo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'll watch it after what I'm currently watching. DDP vs Curt Hennig :mark:

Havent watched it before but I can take a guess that theres a nwo run in


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their Road Wild '97 match? Probably correct about the run-in. (I can't recall the finish 100% atm)

Hennig in WCW was sadly hit or miss. That one could be fun.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

It's from a nitro in 1997. Decent match, but the nwo had their run in. How was their road wild match?

I'm in a big DDP mood now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly I remember liking it, but that was quite a while ago. I'm gonna watch it atm.






~!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Watching it now too.

When was the first time he won the US title and against who?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Mr. Curt Hennig @ Starrcade 1997.

Held it until Spring Stampede '98 vs Raven.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Honestly I remember liking it, but that was quite a while ago. I'm gonna watch it atm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*** - *** 1/2

Solid match. I'm going to find his US title win against Curt Hennig now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, solid match. I'd probably go ***. DDP's heart made that flow nicely. Proving himself against the vet in Hennig. I LOVED how they always put such an emphasis on how dangerous the Diamond Cutter was. Added so much more to when he'd connect with the move. Those pops for it are outstanding. lol @ the camera pulling back on the blood.

I don't think the Starrcade match was better than that. I'll have to watch right now to compare. Can't find it on youtube or dailymotion. Ahhh. Their US championship match from WCW Saturday Night 11/29/97 will have to suffice.

EDIT ~ nevermind. Found it on dailymotion.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Owen Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid - KOTR 1994 ****1/2*

I don't think you can find a match that's under 4 minutes that's good as this one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. That's pretty much the tops for a match done under that little of time. Been quite a bit of fun matches, but none I've seen reach the level of Owen vs Kid.

*WCW Starrcade 1997* - _WCW United States Championship_
Curt Hennig vs Diamond Dallas Page ~ *

Blame the low rating on Hennig's unmotivated, boring weardown segment that ate up a lot of the match. Their match on the Saturday Night I posted ^ blew this away. That was only 5 minutes too. This was in the 10 minute area. Match didn't benefit from the DDP comeback sequences. You can notice the DDP/Hennig series were based all on those. Zero occured in here. This is the kind of match that proves that Hennig really didn't put in much effort during his WCW career. Page hits the DIAMOND CUTTER out of nowhere and wins. Blah match. GREAT & meaningful end. DDP got put over big time by the commentary team. He earned this Championship after the year he had in 1997.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Where did you find the match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_Part One_ ~ http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp...-championship-starrcade-97_sport#.UMWXB4PBF8E

_Part Two_ ~ http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp...-championship-starrcade-97_sport#.UMWXFIPBF8E

Good ol Dailymotion coming through in the clutch.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Ok so I'm a massive flair mark, but for some reason I have never seen Flair/Windham 2/14/1986. I've always told myself I was going to watch it, but I never have. Well that just changed.

Let's get into this match




Spoiler: Flair vs. Windham



The beginning starts with Windham showing his talent and energy immediately knocking flair off his rhythm and flair realizes immediately that this kid is no joke and rolls out of the ring. Then we get into chain wrestling, flair sees this as the way to wear down Windham and to put the young kid in his place by outwrestling him. The veteran outwrestling the young yet incredibly talented windham. The flaw in the plan is that for every move flair has in this opening sequence windham has a counter. And windham during this sequence is working over flair's arm. 

We then have a moment where flair hits the middle and top ropes with his neck, and appropriately sells it beautifully. Commentators making a point about the steel cable in the ropes wrapping around the head/neck area can be very dangerous. Then it's all for not with flair playing possum and hitting windham with a chop. Flair is just a brilliant heel. Nearfall on flair and flair's getting visibly frustrated, he pushes the ref because he's realizing that Windham is no joke, that this match will not be easy.

Flair tries to gain the advantage through chops but Windham keeps punching back and is dominating flair. Boston Crab by Windham and flair sells his back like death has come over him, this leads to a vertical suplex by Windham on flair to a nearfall. Flair's selling of his back is absolutely incredible.

Flair gains an advantage through a knee to the gut and dumps windham outside of the ring and Windham's busted open. Flair then begins his workover of Windham targeting the head. Flair goes for a knee drop on windham's head and misses, and windham goes for the figure four...(LOVE THIS). Flair makes it to the ropes after a good bit of time in the figure four, Windham continues to work on the leg. Windham continues his assault on flair, but misses a dropkick and flair selling the leg beautifully goes after windham's head/neck area with a leg scissors. Flair hits windham with a piledriver, continuing the head/neck area assault. The strategy is flair trying to wear down the younger, stronger, more talented windham.

Windham reverses a 2nd piledriver and gains the advantage. After a nearfall Windham then turns his attention to flair's head, just raining down punches onto his head. Windham is just trying to destroy flair, head to the ring post, more puches onto flair's head. Windham makes flair bleed as flair made Windham bleed (storytelling perfection) Windham has momentum on flair, but then with a classic veteran move with a sleeper hold stopping Windham.

Flair sees the advantage and works over windham's leg and locks in the figure four. Classic flair using the ropes for leverage with the figure four. Windham reverses the figure four, and flair goes to the top rope and gets slammed off the top rope by Windham. Windham (youthful exuberance) uses his knee to attack flair by trying to hurt flair even more by using a knee drop, he hits one then misses the next. Windham is absolutely incredible with his selling of his knees.

Flair and Windham go back and forth then a ref bump. Windham tossed to the outside and then hits a missle dropkick on flair, Windham has the three count on flair but the ref can't count it. Windham had him, but flair kicks out when the ref finally counts.

Windham then gets a sleeper hold on flair and then gets multiple nearfalls on flair. Windham is so close to winning, so so close, hitting flair with everything he's got. Both go outside the ring and are just fighting eachother and aren't paying attention to the ref and counts them both out. The match is a draw. A draw for two even wrestlers.

The wily veteran and champion flair vs the young yet incredibly talented Windham. What A Match.



***** Fantastic match, with fantastic storytelling


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great write up.

The Flair vs Windham series knew no wrong. I'll credit KingCal for having a brain in claiming the Flair vs Windham series should be on par with the Flair vs Steamboat series. All of the matches worked by Flair & Windham were just about as perfect every time too. They might not all have happened in the short span that Flair vs Steamboat did, but other than that the parallels that separate them are irrelevant. Brilliant that they were two completely different styles of series at the heart of it.

Flair continues to show why he's the BEST. Windham proves how much of a natural talent he truly was during the late 80's. Man is far, far too underrated among many wrestling fans. He deserves to be in the same breath as Flair, Arn, Tully, Sting, Funk, etc. I'll always love me some Barry Windham.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DDP vs Sting (c) - Monday Nitro 1998 - ***
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mors_sting-vs-ddp_sport?search_algo=2#.UMWrPeTqmSo
Solid match. Good back and fourth action. Quick but fun match. 

DDP (c) vs Sting - Monday Nitro 04/26/99
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl...-dallas-page_sport?search_algo=2#.UMWp3eTqmSp
Currently watching.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Windham, had he reached his absolute potential, could have been a top 10 wrestler of all time. And I mean US, Japan, Mexico, England, anywhere. Hell, he could be top 25 even now. How many American-born wrestlers are better? Flair, Lawler, Hansen, Funk, Guerrero, maybe Steamboat and Dundee......can't think of any else.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thinking of watching the '98 bout right now. Went on dailymotion to search out more DDP matches and the selection is pretty vast. 

I'm marking atm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone else with Flair/Windham 86 at *****? :mark: Second greatest match EVER for me. Love it love it love it love it. Not often I'm for draw finishes, but I'll be buggered if that finish isn't PERFECT for the story they told throughout the match. It needs to be released on official DVD at some point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. DVD is essential. 

At least it is easy to access online. (via Youtube in pretty good quality)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their Crockett Cup 87 match has never been released on DVD either has it? That needs to be out too. Not as good as the others, but still great at around ****1/4-1/2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only Flair vs Windham match that has been released is the 1/20/87 bout, iirc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They'll fucking shove the near hour long COTC match with Steamboat on every set possible, but won't put another Windham match on anything? Bastards! As much as I love the COTC match, we don't need it on every fucking set! Especially when it takes up nearly an hour that could be used on a couple of unreleased matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Agreed on Windham and his limitless potential. He had the size, the agility, the immense charisma to make himself the perfect babyface, he had beautiful timing, selling, execution and incredible storytelling ability and an underappreciated ability of being a very smart and structured worker. I'd agree with Yeah1993's list of people he'd rank better than Windham, though Steamboat and Dundee are guys who may require another watch of their absolute best performances to be sure.

Pretty sure when I watched the BOTB II and 1/20/87 matches I had both at five stars. I don't really bother with ratings these days, but both are comfortably in the upper echelon of US matches. 

Another gem of a Windham match is his Mid South 1987 match vs Dick Murdoch. Some rapscalion has removed the match from youtube, but its well worth checking out for anyone who is a fan of both/wants to see a beautifully done 40 minute plus match. Both men's long term selling is sublime and the match is filled with great timing and build to make everything matter and flow beautifully. Murdoch's selling of Windham's offence in particular blew me away on first viewing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Windham/Murdoch matches are awesome. Mid-South one and the one in WWF (84?) should all be watched by peoples.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Picked up Brocks DVD. This should be good. Just for the matches alone.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Some STAR RATINGS for Bork Laser's dvd

Bork V Hogan 2002 ***
Bork V Rock SS 2002 ****
Bork V UnderGoat UF 2002 ****
Bork V UnderGoat NM 2002 ****1/2
Bork V Angle WM 2003 ****1/4
Bork V Angle Iron Man 2003 ****1/2

Blu Ray extras

Bork V Angle V Big Show VG 2003 ***3/4
Bork V Triple H V Rock Global Warming (lol wut) ***


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Figure I might as well add a few more obscure 80's matches that need some love.

Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin, National Heavyweight Title (Worldwide 5/3/86)

Amazing match, one of the best title matches I've ever seen and arguably a top 25 match in US history. Think it was a televised match as well so its also definitely in the running for greatest TV match of all time. Garvin is no Windham, Steamboat or Morton when it comes to 80s babyfaces, but he's still great in his own right and the build around his injured hand is wonderful storytelling. Blanchard demonstrates why people consider him such a special talent from the era with a wonderful heel performance that shows you he could have been a heel to rival Flair in the main event. Match also has arguably the best Dusty finish of all time too. Perfection.

Review is here:


Spoiler: Blanchard vs Garvin



*Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin, NWA National Heavyweight Championship, (Worldwide, 05/03/1986)*

This is a spectacular TV match, arguably up there with some of the greatest televised matches from any era in any promotion. It had an organic Benoit vs Finlay feel in how everything was a struggle, every hold felt important and dramatic and the crowd was magnificent.

To touch on the last point first, this crowd is ridiculously amazing for Garvin. Its about as loud and consistent as I can recall for 1 match, seeing them getting thunderous ovations for simple lock ups and test of strength spots is amazing.

Garvin comes into this with an injured hand as a result of the Horseman & Blanchard in particular I believe. His selling of the hand is awesome, he establishes it as a major weapon early on before then refusing to use the hand due to the pain and sets about resorting to kneedrops and awesome headbutts to compensate. He can't hook the leg on pins or abdominal stretches and constantly shakes at the hand after the odd offensive manouevre. Tully is terrific in peppering him with kidney and face shots in the hopes of getting Garvin to use his injured arm and its this spot that leads to Garvin using his noggin to send Tully loopy. Tully establishes himself as a terric bumper and spends the best part of the opening 5 minutes working from the bottom and constantly being one upped and seeking JJ Dillon's guidance. There's one spot in particular with Garvin jumping to the turnbuckle and over Tully before catching him in a backslide for a close fall.

I touched on it earlier that this match is one giant struggle for control and a beautiful exchange of crucifix pins highlights this. Tully deadweights on every attempt to gain control and Garvin really sells the difficulty in trying to force him down to the mat. JJ is a constant maniacal genius with how he distracts the referee long enough to have Tully reach the ropes and there's a beautiful spot where JJ talks to the ref whilst simultaneously dragging Tully to the ropes. Garvin realises he's overwhelmed and sets about ripping Tully's leg out of his socket and locks in a couple of leg locks to gain control. Tully sells it amazingly by constantly fallinf down when trying to get to his feet and constantly rolling under the ropes for a breather, lovely stooging by Tully.

No sooner have they reached 15 minutes and both men are selling the wear and tear of the match to perfection. There's a beautiful pacing in stretching out bursts of offence before selling the damage and teasing close near falls. Garvin in particular looks a perfect babyface worker: looking invincible in spells before selling himself as a biable underdog and pacing the match superbly. Tully smartly sets about using the hair and tights to keep control and I marked out for an attemped roll through pin which Garvin counters by grabbing the ropes before screaming in pain and almost letting go with his damaged right hand. JJ finally gives Tully a means of control via a foreign object which Tully smashes off of the injured arm before removing the tape and working it over nicely with submissions and stomps. Garvin again sells to perfection and the women are almost crying: everytime you see a kid in the audience with his mom screaming you believe good ol' Ron had his way with the mom at some point in time.

The finish though puts this over as a classic. Dusty Rhodes has enough with the cheating and gives Garvin some extra tape to protect his injured hand and make it deadly whilst JJ is in the process of handing Tully a roll of quarters. The crowd reaction is amazing as both men rise to their feet with loaded weapons and turn ever so slowly before Garvin finally connects with a right hand sending the bag of change everywhere and scoring the 1-2-3!!!!!!

But JJ enters the ring and points Tommy Cooper to Garvin now having a loaded hand and accuses Dusty of shenanigans and Tommy reverses the decision and this crowd is freaking PISSED. Perfect heel finish and I loved it.



Sgt Slaughter vs Iron Sheik, Boot Camp Match (6/16/84)

I go back and forth when it comes to best matches in company history, but if you asked me today I don't think there's a better match in WWF/E history than this. Just a pure brawl and incredible spectacle capped with immense storytelling and callback spots throughout the feud and one of the most rabid and passionate crowds I've seen. Can't really do justice to just how insane and perfect it is, it is something you have to see for yourself.

Sgt Slaughter vs Pat Patterson, Alley Fight (4/21/81)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp...ht-4-21-1981_sport?search_algo=2#.UMXs7Xcybk8

Amazing brawl. Slaughter takes a lunatic ring post bump and ends up bleeding on a scale Eddie Guerrero would replicate 23 years later. Patterson is a tremendous ass kicker from here on out, zeroing in on the cut and working it to perfection. Stiff and lunatic brawl with two tremendous performances from babyface and heel.

Bob Backlund vs Greg Valentine (2/19/79)

Their famous match which I think is a lock for top 20 in company history and depending on my mood I can see it pushing between top 15 and maybe higher. Its a fairly basic match formula executed to perfection: Valentine spends a lot of the early going being outwrestled by Backlund and shows his frustration really well. I enjoyed him using the ribs as a target to weaken Backlund to set up some arm work and neck work, and I loved the full nelson spot where Backlund countered and tortured Valentine for a good minute or so. I really love these sort of simplistic spots from the 70s and 80s in developing the story of one man being ahead of the other, of course the continued frustration of Valentine being outmatched by Backlund builds really well into Valentine's control segment. His leg work is really good (and a nice payoff to the arm and neck work being useless) and Backlund has some really great selling moments, particularly on a underhook suplex attempt. One of my favourite 60 minute draws ever, though I'd probably just put Windham/Murdoch and Windham/Flair ahead of it.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Survivor Series 2003 star ratings plz


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 03:

Team Angle (John Cena/Chris Benoit/Bradshaw/Hardcore Holly/Kurt Angle) Vs Team Lesnar (Brock Lesnar/A-Train/Big Show/Matt Morgan/Nathan Jones) - ***

Lita Vs Molly Holly - WWE Women's Title - **1/2

Kane Vs Shane McMahon - Ambulance Match - **

Basham Brothers Vs Los Guerreros - WWE Tag Team Titles - ***

Team Austin (Shawn Michaels/Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley/RVD/Booker T) Vs Team Bischoff (Chris Jericho/Christian/Mark Henry/Randy Orton/Scott Steiner) - ****

The Undertaker Vs Vince McMahon - Buried Alive Match - *1/4

Triple H Vs Goldberg - World Heavyweight Title - *


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> KANE~!
> 
> The Rockers vs The Brain Busters ~ _MSG 1/23/89_
> Bret Hart vs Owen Hart ~ _WrestleMania X_
> ...



HERE'Z MINE ATM (Gonna rewatch before the end of the year) ;

Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat : Wrestlemania III
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart : Wrestlemania X
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin : Survivor Series 1996
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin : Wrestlemania XIII
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker : IYHBB 1997
Triple H vs Cactus Jack : Royal Rumble 2000
Triple H vs Chris Jericho : Fully Loaded 2000
Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XX
Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker : No Way Out 2006
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXV
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXVI
John Cena vs CM Punk : Money in the Bank 2011
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar : Extreme Rules 2012

Top 10 On the Outside Looking In ;

Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero : No Way Out 2004
Royal Rumble Match 1992
Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit : Smackdown 2001
The Undertaker vs Triple H : Wrestlemania XXVII
Steve Austin/Triple H vs Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho : Raw 2001
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle : Royal Rumble 2003
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan : Over the Limit 2012
Batista vs Triple H : Vengeance 2005
Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle : Summerslam 2001
The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar : No Mercy 2002

This could change. I'll letcha know 

*The-Rock-Says*, you're going to fucking LOVE the Brock DVD. It's my second favorite of 2012 because of one simple reason ; Lesnar makes everything entertaining. The DVD has some squashes on it, but they're absolutely awesome squashes that you enjoy every minute of. I mean, who doesn't want to watch Brock nearly kill Jeff Hardy ? If Brock had the passion for the business that some of the all-time greats had, he would have been the GOAT in my mind honestly due to being the most physically talented in-ring performer ever. 

UGH.... We NEEEEED Rock-Brock II. The original is one of my favorite matches... Like... EVER. Lesnar should wrestle two more matches en route to Wrestlemania though (and if he wants to give it up then he can, but he really shouldn't  ) ..... Come back at the Rumble and cost Rocky the championship, then somehow wrestle John Cena again @ Elimination Chamber and win in brutal fashion , then have him lose to Rocky at Mania. Box office records broken, and we get a match that's probably 10x better than Cena-Rock as it would be more of an athletic contest (since Cena isn't a 10th of the pure athlete Rock and Brock are, I think that's what makes their match at Summerslam so special).

Fuck, I don't even care if another Wrestlemania ends with Rock on top, I just want Lesnar-Rock II. Although I'd prefer Punk-Taker main eventing, in what's the only match that could potentially follow this one. If WWE doesn't completely FUCK THIS UP we're in store for the supercard of supercards.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My five star matches: (WWE only, not that I have any from other promotions)

Bret Hart vs Stone Cold - Wrestlemania XIII
Stone Cold vs The Rock - Wrestlemania X7
Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXV



The Cynical Miracle said:


> Survivor Series 2003 star ratings plz


Team Angle vs Team Lesnar - ***1/2
Lita vs Molly Holly - **1/2
Kane vs Shane-O-Mac - ***
Basham Brothers vs Los Guerreros - Don't remember
Team Bischoff vs Team Austin - ****1/4
Undertaker vs Vince - ***1/4
Goldberg vs Triple H - *1/2


----------



## Jimmy Darmody (Jan 6, 2010)

How good is the CM Punk DVD? I could have purchased it at least 5 times already, just don't want to get it, and it's not as good as expected.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I liked it very much. It's one of the best DVD's made by the WWE


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Juelz Ventura™ said:


> How good is the CM Punk DVD? I could have purchased it at least 5 times already, just don't want to get it, and it's not as good as expected.


It's a top 5 DVD ever produced by the WWE IMO , with perhaps the GOAT documentary in terms of a single-star biography. The match listing is absolutely stellar as the third disc is one of the best discs of matches that the WWE has ever produced. 

The only DVDs I'd have above it ATM are TURFC , and MAYBE a few others such as Rey Mysterio ; Biggest Little Man , Bret Hart ; TBTI,TBTW,ATBTEWB , and Austin's latest four disc set. Absolutely fantastic DVD, and if every other superstar doc went this much in depth to an individual with great matches on the side as they did with Punk, they'd hit far more home-runs in the DVD department than they do now.

I still can't get over the fact that in the same year they released Punk's DVD (One of the best ever) , they released another DVD that angers me so much because of it's existence. Not even going to name it because it's a fucking waste of though, I might as well make a list of the bottom five WWE DVDs ever over Christmas Break, because it seems as if I'm watching a ton of shitty stuff lately


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Triple H doc plz.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

HOUSE SHOW MATCHES~!

Michaels vs. Razor 
-(1/14/94) - ****1/4
-(1/15/94) - ***3/4
-(6/12/93) - ***1/2

I could watch Michaels bump for Razor all day. Awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really want to see those. Where did you find them?


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

They're on Dailymotion. Just search Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon.

Just found a Michaels/Goldust ladder match from 96 too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Awesome, thanks.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

You seen the Michaels/Diesel vs Razor/1-2-3 Kid Action Zone tag Mystery? Wonderful tag match and Michaels and Razor are both really excellent in it. Feels like a top 10 tag match in company history, and there may only be 3 tags better than it post 94.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7...s-razor-ramo_sport?search_algo=2#.UMY6XHcybk8

Wrote about it a month or so back:



> *Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs 1-2-3 Kid & Razor Ramon, WWF Action Zone (10/30/94*)
> 
> Incredible match. Seriously aside from the Rockers/Orient Express tag and possibly Austin/Michaels vs Owen/Davey I don't think there's been a better tag in WWF/E since 1991. Everyone in this match puts in a hell of a shift and ensures a frantic pace with an incredible crowd marking out for everything they do.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> You seen the Michaels/Diesel vs Razor/1-2-3 Kid Action Zone tag Mystery? Wonderful tag match and Michaels and Razor are both really excellent in it. Feels like a top 10 tag match in company history, and there may only be 3 tags better than it post 94.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7...s-razor-ramo_sport?search_algo=2#.UMY6XHcybk8
> 
> Wrote about it a month or so back:


Yep, I've seen this one. But I'll watch it again  Thanks for posting this. It is highly acclaimed among hardcore HBK marks. Late '94 is when Shawn began his ascent to becoming a great worker. He wasn't there yet. But late '94 is when he started to put it together and slowly, but surely move into the upper echelon of WWF workers.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd say you're being highly dismissive of his Rockers days, unless you're talking strictly singles career up to that point. I haven't seen as much of his AWA work as the Rockers, but everything in WWF with Jannetty as reaffirmed by belief he's an all time great US tag worker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And speaking of big tags, I think the Hart Foundation tag rivals the Clique tag. Bulldog & Bret Vs Anvil & Owen. Forget when it happened. There are two of them too .


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm curious, does anyone not have Bret/Austin WM13 at *****? If you don't, why? Only asking because I haven't seen anyone give that match less than 5 stars lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'd say you're being highly dismissive of his Rockers days, unless you're talking strictly singles career up to that point. I haven't seen as much of his AWA work as the Rockers, but everything in WWF with Jannetty as reaffirmed by belief he's an all time great US tag worker.


No, I was talking about his singles career up to that point.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ok, I figured that was the case.

Hoping to watch the Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian series tomorrow and wednesday for this Christmas project everyone wants to do.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels definitely first became a really good singles guy in 94. He wasn't *bad* before that, but he would over-bump too much and was kinda boring on offense. Like, in 1993 there was no way he was even a top 100 wrestler in the world.



FuckChristmas said:


> And speaking of big tags, I think the Hart Foundation tag rivals the Clique tag. Bulldog & Bret Vs Anvil & Owen. Forget when it happened. There are two of them too .


I watched one of these last month and LOVED it. It was from October 94, I think. There's another one? NEED.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Michaels definitely first became a really good singles guy in 94. He wasn't *bad* before that, but he would over-bump too much and was kinda boring on offense. Like, in 1993 there was no way he was even a top 100 wrestler in the world.


Agreed.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

WOOLCOCK said:


> You seen the Michaels/Diesel vs Razor/1-2-3 Kid Action Zone tag Mystery? Wonderful tag match and Michaels and Razor are both really excellent in it. Feels like a top 10 tag match in company history, and there may only be 3 tags better than it post 94.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7...s-razor-ramo_sport?search_algo=2#.UMY6XHcybk8
> 
> Wrote about it a month or so back:


Yeah, I've seen it before. It's been awhile though, might actually re-watch. Anytime the Kliq wrestles each other is gold because all they do it bump like crazy for each other and do whatever it takes to make one another look like a million bucks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Figure I might as well add a few more obscure 80's matches that need some love.
> 
> Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin, National Heavyweight Title (Worldwide 5/3/86)
> 
> ...


Will I attempt to watch all of those? Probably. Tully, Slaughter, & Backlund SWAG.

btw, you got a link to the first Rockers/Brain Busters tag?



Best In The North Pole said:


> HERE'Z MINE ATM (Gonna rewatch before the end of the year) ;
> 
> Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat : Wrestlemania III
> Bret Hart vs Owen Hart : Wrestlemania X
> ...


I really have to watch the Two Man Power Trip vs Canadian Chris' tag again. That might make my list just by memory. Lots of matches on the honorable mentions list are right near the 5 star mark. Especially Austin vs Angle from Summerslam 2001 & Undertaker vs BROCK from No Mercy 2002. It's weird, I would say I personally love those more than Angle vs Benoit Royal Rumble '03. Yet, my star rating shows differently. I guess that's proof I rate according to how the match is done more than only from personal marking. Maybe I overrate it, but Angle vs Benoit really was perfectly done for what they wanted to accomplish. Don't have too much to gripe about Angle in it. Benoit seemed to bring out the best in him.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Do you mean the very first one in Cal's list of their series yesterday? Superstars 12/10/88? If so I'm afraid I don't


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well this isn't a promising start. I'll wait and see if Cal does. I got to watch these in order.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I'm not mistaken, it might just be the Brainbusters attacking The Rockers before the bell, so essentially a beatdown before they get a proper match together. If you can wait until 2morrow, I'll rip and upload the lot of them. That way everyone gets to see one of the GOAT tag series ever .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm down for that.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*WWE Rivalry Series: Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio (Fan Set)
Entertaining set, highly underrated feud. Dude putting in the Rey Mysterio video package of Rey celebrating with his family after winning the Cruiserweight Title was a great touch.*

Matt Hardy & John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio & Edge (11/28/2002)- ***1/2
Matt Hardy & Shannon Moore vs. Rey Mysterio & Spanky (3/28/2003)- ***3/4
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio (3/30/2003)- **3/4
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio (6/5/2003)- ****1/4
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio (6/12/2003)- ***1/2
________________________

*ECW Rivalry Series: Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn (Fan Set)
Good set, five great matches for my dollar lots of fun to sit through and a good nostalgia pop.*

Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn (3/21/1999)- ****1/2+
Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn (5/16/1999)- ****3/4
Rob Van Dam & Jerry Lynn vs. Justin Credible & Lance Storm (7/18/1999)- ****
Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn (5/14/2000)- ****
Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn (1/7/2001)- ****1/2
_________________________

*WWE Dudley Boyz: Wood is thicker than Blood (Fan Set):
Pretty solid set, lots of table smashing frenzy as that’s the theme of the set. I loved all of the Dudleys/Hardys table matches so that alone was worth the price.*

Dudley Boyz vs. Hardy Boyz (1/23/2000)- ****1/4
Dudley Boyz vs. Hardy Boyz (2/1/2001)- ***3/4
Dudley Boyz vs. D-Generation X (6/25/2000)- **
Dudley Boyz vs. The Rock (10/1/2001)- ***
Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & Sandman (6/12/2005)- ***

***Once I'm" finally back in the country (US) I'll post the Evan Bourne one once I give it a watch. I forgot it when I left.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh this studying is bullshit.... FIVE MINUTE BREAK 

So, can we get a rundown of all the individual series's we're going to tackle for the holiday season or what ? That way we can keep better track of how many of us there are that are actually participating in this awesometastically awesome idea.

I know I'm in for the TRIPS-SHAWN series , everybody else have one picked ? I'ma start probably tomorrow (stuck in the city for 12 hours with NOTHING to do, exams are finished tomorrow YAY) and post one review every day starting on the 14th , concluding with my rankings and overall thoughts on the series at Midnight on CHRISTMASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :cena2 

What better way to celebrate Christmas Eve ending and Christmas beginning than with a Shawn Michaels vs Triple H Retrospective ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm DOWN for the Rockers/Brain Busters & Punker/Cena series.

I'll keep both since the Rockers/Brain Busters is on hold till Cal uploads the matches. If I decide to pass on some TNA tonight, then I'll make room for Punk vs Cena before I watch RAW.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I took Orton/Cena.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm taking hunter/foley does anyone have a list of all their tv matches?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still haven't come up with a series of matches I wanna watch lol. I've seen everything. All that's left it shit that I don't want to watch .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I'm taking hunter/foley does anyone have a list of all their tv matches?


This link should be very helpful. Don't know if it's perfectly accurate but it got about as much as you can ask for.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm doing Punk/Rey.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was gonna use Profight to aid him too. They're pretty accurate for more recent stuff. Older years that had a lot of matches from areas such as MSG & Boston Garden they aren't as updated.

Site is very reliable nonetheless.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I may partake in this, though I would've prefered Hunter/Foley.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I may partake in this, though I would've prefered Hunter/Foley.


Do Game vs Orton. 

8*D


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Someone brought up Razor Ramon earlier. I remember watching old WWF videos of his matches, always loved him as Razor. 

Might go re watch some soon.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I may partake in this, though I would've prefered Hunter/Foley.


U can take it mate, no worries. 

I'll change to something else any suggestions?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Razor & 1-2-3 Kid vs Smoking Gunns from _In Your House 4: Great White North_ is a quality bout.

Plus there are quite a bit of tags with Hall vs DDP to continue that streak. _(don't know how well they are as Hall in WCW is iffy)_

shawnmichaelisgod - Do a Undertaker vs Triple H one. If not Foley, Undertaker fits.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

How many matches did Razor Ramon/HBK have? I'll do that one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian for me.

Another short series I'd recommend is Masters vs Mcintyre. Both Superstars matches from August 2010 and May 2011 are quality, but there's also a February 2011 Smackdown match which goes 3 minutes which is quality for the criminally short time it gets and actually gets a callback spot in the later May match.

Christian/Mcintyre might be a better series all things considered though, i.e 3/4 matches which get good time and even the shortest match still gets more time than Masters/Mcintyre from February.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

4 Singles matches

MSG 6/12/93
WrestleMania X
RAW 8/1/94
Summerslam '95

I based this off of singles matches only, but you can also chuck in the tags too. Action Zone, 6 man from RAW in late '95, & two Survivor Series elimination matches.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Razor & 1-2-3 Kid vs Smoking Gunns from _In Your House 4: Great White North_ is a quality bout.
> 
> Plus there are quite a bit of tags with Hall vs DDP to continue that streak. _(don't know how well they are as Hall in WCW is iffy)_
> 
> shawnmichaelisgod - Do a Undertaker vs Triple H one. If not Foley, Undertaker fits.


Taker/HHH sounds good, I was thinking about doing taker/hbk been awhile since I've seen any of there matches. 

And you can't go 6 months without watching some taker/hbk (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Do Game vs Orton.
> 
> 8*D


Write-up would be pretty succinct:

*Randy Orton vs. THE GAME*

Unforgiven 04 - Orton gets owned after holding the title for less than 30 days
EC 05 - Orton gets owned again b/c Batista is going to be the bigger star
RR 05 - Orton gets owned again
No Mercy 07 - Orton gets owned again but at least Hunter lets him own him back being that it was Hunter's 3rd match of the night and all...
Judgment Day 08 - Orton gets owned again
One Night Stand 08 - Orton gets owned again
Mania 25 - Orton gets owned again

For anyone who is doing this feud, your job is done. You're welcome.



KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> Someone brought up Razor Ramon earlier. I remember watching old WWF videos of his matches, always loved him as Razor.
> 
> Might go re watch some soon.


Razor was my favorite growing up. OOZING MACHISMO~! 



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> U can take it mate, no worries.
> 
> I'll change to something else any suggestions?


Only if there's something you can find that interests you just as much. I may do HBK/Taker unless that's taken too 

EDIT - I should probably ask what I'm signing up for. Review of the feud including match write-ups complete w/snowflakes?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'll do a Razor Ramon/HBK set then. MACHISMO~!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got finished with Raw Homecoming and it was an awesome show. Some great segments such as Stone Cold stunning the entire McMahon family, the goofy Rob Conway/Legends promo and Hulk Hogan challenging Austin to a match. Sucks that it never happened. 

Matches from 3/10/05:

Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels (Ironman) - *** - Didn't like this one very much for some reason. Just didn't have the same vibe as their other two matches.

Edge vs Matt Hardy (Ladder Match) - ***1/2 - Very good with a number of cool spots but five more minutes would have helped.

Ric Flair & Triple H vs Chris Masters & Carlito - *** - Fun while it lasted. It sucks that nothing became of Carlito when he had so much potential. Also the post-match beatdown by HHH is brutal. Flair looks like a zombie from all the bleeding, lol.

John Cena vs Eric Bischoff - ** - Only a 3 minute squash match but fun. Also awesome post-match ending which starts the brand feud that leads into Survivor Series. Sucks that Eddie passed away right before it, though.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Masters/mcintrye and Christian/mcintrye :mark:

What awesome series of matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

@SMIG , If you're looking for a shorter series (HHH-Foley is like 25 singles matches or something) with a ton of quality, I suggest to you the following ones ;

HBK-Taker (5 PPV Matches 0 TV Matches)
HBK-Jericho ( 5 PPV, 6 TV)
HBK-Orton (4 PPV, 7 TV)
HBK-Bulldog ( 3 PPV, 4 TV)

:hhh :hhh :hhh

Errybody wanna try and get theirs started soon and posted before the end of December ?   
That way we can have a full month of projects on here. DESERIESEMBER unk2

EDIT ; If this ultimately works out, we can try for a Thread-Wide-Theme every month or perhaps every few months  John Cena January :cena2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Nobody has taken Jericho-HBK? I think I'd be down if I could find them all.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hunter/Foley is 25 matches? Yeah, fuck that. shawnmichaelsisgod you can keep that one lol.

I'll do HBK/Taker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Taker/HHH sounds good, I was thinking about doing taker/hbk been awhile since I've seen any of there matches.
> 
> And you can't go 6 months without watching some taker/hbk (Y)


(Y)

Taker/HBK is like the WWE equivalent of Flair/Steamboat. Just about perfection every time. THAT CHEMISTRY.



The Reindeer Killer said:


> Write-up would be pretty succinct:
> 
> *Randy Orton vs. THE GAME*
> 
> ...


:lmao 

Touche.

Yeah, that's pretty much the given here. The reviews don't have to be the most uber detailed/college level essay paragraph unless you feel like it. Giving you thoughts on the matches within the series is the basic layout.



KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> I'll do a Razor Ramon/HBK set then. MACHISMO~!


:mark:

Their matches OWN.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/Razor matches I could find- 

MSG house show 6/12/93 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xegqds_razor-ramon-vs-shawn-michaels-ic-ti_sport#.UMaBA4NhCWY
Province House show 8/12/93 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xe...chaels-ic-ti_sport?search_algo=2#.UMaBlINhCWY
9/1/93 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6dX_cizLh4
Ladder match @ San Jose house show 1/14/94 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbsd1w_razor-ramon-vs-shawn-michaels-pt-1_sport#.UMaASoNhCWY
Ladder match @ LA house show 1/15/94 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdm86o_razor-ramon-vs-shawn-michaels-ladde_sport#.UMaANINhCWY
Mania 10
Raw 8/1/94 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3...awn-michaels_sport?search_algo=2#.UMaA6YNhCWY
SummerSlam 95

some of the quality here really sucks. part 2 of stuff can be found to the right 'n' sheeit.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Hunter/Foley is 25 matches? Yeah, fuck that. ShawnMichaelsIsGod you can keep that one lol.
> 
> I'll do HBK/Taker.


So generous of you haha that's fine with me I'm doing nothing anyway university is done for the year. 

I can start mine now, if I gotta watch 25 matches just can't wait for street fight :mark: 

Anyone know of there first match?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Looks to be a Shotgun Saturday Night in 97.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> So generous of you haha that's fine with me I'm doing nothing anyway university is done for the year.
> 
> I can start mine now, if I gotta watch 25 matches just can't wait for street fight :mark:
> 
> Anyone know of there first match?


Shotgun Saturday Night 5/7/97


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> *Randy Orton vs. THE GAME*
> 
> Unforgiven 04 - Orton gets owned after holding the title for less than 30 days
> EC 05 - Orton gets owned again b/c Batista is going to be the bigger star
> ...


FUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!! :frustrate  :cuss: 

You forgot:

Raw 05: HHH gets owned
Mania 24: HHH gets punted
The Bash 09: HHH gets owned again


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Cheers be back soon for my review (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> FUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!! :frustrate  :cuss:
> 
> You forgot:
> 
> ...


Conveniently left those out/they never happened


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Watching HBK (c) vs Razor Ramon Summerslam 1995.

Vince commentating. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

13 singles matches between John-boy & the Punker. Here we go.

~!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That was the first PPV I ever ordered 

HBK's hissy fit when the ladder falls adds *1/4 to the rating, bringing it up to *****1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Write-up would be pretty succinct:
> 
> *Randy Orton vs. THE GAME*
> 
> ...


That young up and comer HHH getting 'dem victories.

As HailSabin said mate, however you review the match is up to you. A simple few lines summarising what's good/bad about the match can be just as good as an essay. Remember this is coming from someone with a tendency to ramble like a mad cunt.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

5 1/2?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One of my all time favorite series's SMIG ! Make DA GAME proud :hhh

Orton ALWAYS gets owned by HHH , it's almost become a running gag by this point. Nobody has felt the shovel over the years quite like Orton has , and it's INSANE to think that Orton has been on top (well, on his own personal hill really) for so long after Trips was done with him.

DAT SHOVEL.


EDIT : Wait , are you in on this *WOOLCOCK* ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> One of my all time favorite series's SMIG ! Make DA GAME proud :hhh
> 
> Orton ALWAYS gets owned by HHH , it's almost become a running gag by this point. Nobody has felt the shovel over the years quite like Orton has , and it's INSANE to think that Orton has been on top (well, on his own personal hill really) for so long after Trips was done with him.
> 
> DAT SHOVEL.


It's shocking because you'd think they are good friends backstage yet DAT GAME always killed Orton's momentum at every turn. For what it's worth, Orton came out on top in the end, though!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> That young up and comer HHH getting 'dem victories.
> 
> As HailSabin said mate, however you review the match is up to you. A simple few lines summarising what's good/bad about the match can be just as good as an essay. Remember this is coming from someone with a tendency to ramble like a mad cunt.


(Y) May give mine a different twist.



KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> 5 1/2?


That is correct. It's on the HBK Tantrum Scale. Also why HBK/Vader gets *****1/4.



Best In The North Pole said:


> One of my all time favorite series's SMIG ! Make DA GAME proud :hhh
> 
> Orton ALWAYS gets owned by HHH , it's almost become a running gag by this point. Nobody has felt the shovel over the years quite like Orton has , and it's INSANE to think that Orton has been on top (well, on his own personal hill really) for so long after Trips was done with him.
> 
> DAT SHOVEL.


It has been a wonderful thing to witness over the years.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ugh, can't stand the Orton/Trips series other than the first and third LMS matches. Don't know what it is but I just can't enjoy that series.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> EDIT : Wait , are you in on this *WOOLCOCK* ?


Yup. Goldust/Booker vs Christian/Jericho series 

As its a shorter series I might scout about and see if I can come up with another one. Seeing as I have bugger all on tomorrow I'll probably finish the series in one sitting, especially as these are generally sub 15 minute matches.

Be awesome if a few people covered some WCW as well. Sting/Vader, DDP/Savage, Dustin Rhodes/Bunkhouse Buck, Benoit/Meng etc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Be awesome if a few people covered some WCW as well. Sting/Vader, DDP/Savage, Dustin Rhodes/Bunkhouse Buck, Benoit/Meng etc.


How many Benoit/Mengs are there?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Ugh this studying is bullshit.... FIVE MINUTE BREAK
> 
> *So, can we get a rundown of all the individual series's we're going to tackle for the holiday season or what ? That way we can keep better track of how many of us there are that are actually participating in this awesometastically awesome idea.*
> 
> ...


WHAT IS THIS IDEA AND WHERE IS MY MEMO? :argh:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clark Griswold said:


> Ugh, can't stand the Orton/Trips series other than the first and third LMS matches. Don't know what it is but I just can't enjoy that series.


Have you seen this one? One of their better matches IMO. (the commentary is in another language, though)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5fbg7_randy-orton-vs-triple-h-wwe-raw-03_sport#.UMaFkbUnguc


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I know there's at least two on PPV. Slamboree and Great American Bash. I could have a search around but I'm adamant there's at least 3.

If there's not enough to cover a 'series' then I'd definitely recommend them as something for anyone to watch in their spare time. Benoit vs monster who beats the shit out of him relentlessly and builds to a comeback is a pretty nice formula.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ Brye Yeah I was slow to catch on, too. I just yelled a random feud and hoped to piece the rest together at a later date. Cody/Caida filled me in on it.

Pick a feud/series of matches and do a write-up/review in whatever style you choose.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Brye* , we're each picking an individual series to review match-by-match (with a retrospect at the end) each in the month of December, JOIN IN MUTHAFUCKAAAA :hhh

May I suggest the following ?

- HHH/Steiner
- HHH/Nash
- HHH/Goldberg

........... :hhh


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I know there's at least two on PPV. Spring Stampede and Great American Bash. I could have a search around but I'm adamant there's at least 3.
> 
> If there's not enough to cover a 'series' then I'd definitely recommend them as something for anyone to watch in their spare time. Benoit vs monster who beats the shit out of him relentlessly and builds to a comeback is a pretty nice formula.


Man I only thought there was one. I wish there were 1000, but there being more than one is awesome news. I don't think I even watched Spring Stampede. WANNA WATCH THEM ALL.

Someone should do Juventud Guerrera v Billy Kidman to see the awesomenesss of the Juice have a really good series with an overrated grunge dude.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its actually Slamboree sorry, not Spring Stampede. GAB match is a death match and the rematch from Spring Stampede. They're ridiculously fun, feature Benoit eating a beating and bumping big and being a stiff machine on offence.

EDIT: I should watch more of the Juice. I recall that XPW promo of his you shared which was fucking brilliant and hilarious.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Seriously having trouble finding mankind/HHH shotgun Saturday night right now, help please? :hhh


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> @ Brye Yeah I was slow to catch on, too. I just yelled a random feud and hoped to piece the rest together at a later date. Cody/Caida filled me in on it.
> 
> Pick a feud/series of matches and do a write-up/review in whatever style you choose.


Alright, awesome. 

I'll take Taker/Batista, Taker/Edge & Kidd/Tatsu~!



Best In The North Pole said:


> *Brye* , we're each picking an individual series to review match-by-match (with a retrospect at the end) each in the month of December, JOIN IN MUTHAFUCKAAAA :hhh
> 
> May I suggest the following ?
> 
> ...


:argh: STEINER


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Flipping through random Punk matches, getting more ideas for future reference when I noticed something so fucking ironic that I had a little geek moment :

Chris Benoit's last tag-team partner : unk2

*Choke2Death* unk3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Its actually Slamboree sorry, not Spring Stampede. GAB match is a death match and the rematch from Spring Stampede. They're ridiculously fun, feature Benoit eating a beating and bumping big and being a stiff machine on offence.
> 
> EDIT: I should watch more of the Juice. I recall that XPW promo of his you shared which was fucking brilliant and hilarious.


GREATEST PROMO OF ALL TIME http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFqrppW9N0c


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn Brye, score on Kidd vs Tatsu. Even the Action Figure on a Pole match was lots of fun.

Debating how we're gonna post our reviews atm. Either one by one, altogether, or sporadically. b/c I already finished Punk/Cena I. Moving on and wondering if I should post my review atm. I could wait till I have more of course.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm planning on watching/reviewing probably half of the series tomorrow, but I'm posting them sporadically so I can rank them and post my retrospective on Christmas Day, perhaps in conjunction with another little review just for Christmas's sake.

I <3 these thread-wide projects :brock


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Damn Brye, score on Kidd vs Tatsu. Even the Action Figure on a Pole match was lots of fun.
> 
> Debating how we're gonna post our reviews atm. Either one by one, altogether, or sporadically. b/c I already finished Punk/Cena I. Moving on and wondering if I should post my review atm. I could wait till I have more of course.


Agreed, I had fun with those matches. 

I'd say post all at once, imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everybody has their own distinct style of reviewing, so sticking to what's best for you is what's best for the entire thread. Still can't believe Cal hasn't picked a series yet, maybe we should all pick a "REALLY GOOD  " series for him like HBK-Bret


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

As a complete series plz


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Chris Benoit's last tag-team partner : unk2


At least Chris made sure he'd never have to tire himself carrying Punk's skinny fat ass to a quality match. unk3


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Kennedy/Carlito please. Something to cheer him up in his current Christmas mood.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All at once it is then. Holy crap at how long my post will be with the way I'm doing this :lmao

I'm going the route of writing out the match + commentary during. Then adding a final write up following to tie up my thoughts on the match. It's gonna be MASSIVE when I do the long PPV bouts.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that's how I'm doing mine, too, Cody. (W/my own special TLK TWIST of course)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

omg. Looking forward to that.

Ok, I can't find the uber short Cena/Punk match from 12/14/09. Go figure. The match that I can zip through in 2 minutes is giving me the most trouble. Already found numerous links to the Summerslam 2011 & Night of Champions 2012 matches. So this SUCKS.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

mine will probably be short


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer still having trouble trying to find mankind/hhh shotgun saturday night, only found it on wwe website but can't view it in my country :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I might just re-post my Undertaker/Batista series and hope nobody notices :side:.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Batista/Taker - 8 Matches
Edge/Taker - 7 Matches
Tatsu/Kidd - 12 Matches

This is gonna be fun.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wow tatsu Kidd had 12 matches


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So we doing the whole series in one post?



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> omg. Looking forward to that.
> 
> Ok, I can't find the uber short Cena/Punk match from 12/14/09. Go figure. The match that I can zip through in 2 minutes is giving me the most trouble. Already found numerous links to the Summerslam 2011 & Night of Champions 2012 matches. So this SUCKS.


Full Raw ep's on YT, go around 44:30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzvYbbbkwTw


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

idk how that didn't pop up in my search, but cheers.

Can knock that out and continue on once I start/finish RAW right now.

12 Kidd vs Tatsu matches too. AWESOME. 

I might go back and watch all of those too just for the fun of it


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So Mysterio/Punk singles I'm aware of:

Armageddon 2008
SmackDown 2/12/10
WrestleMania 26
Extreme Rules 2010
Over the Limit 2010
Capitol Punishment 2011
Raw 8/6/12

There' probably more, I think their feud started in 09? Any more anybody knows of?

EDIT - 
SmackDown 6/19/09
SmackDown 7/24/09


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Somebody should do Miz/Kofi. Over 150 matches and you could write the same exact review for all of them. Or Flair/Hogan.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> So Mysterio/Punk singles I'm aware of:
> 
> Armageddon 2008
> SmackDown 2/12/10
> ...


http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/c-m-punk-467.html?opp=351

Use this site mate, pretty sure it said rey and punk have 15 singles matches against each other


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks a lot. I was looking through historyofwwe and man they faced quite a bit on house shows.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Thanks a lot. I was looking through historyofwwe and man they faced quite a bit on house shows.


No worries, yer I went back to for shit and gigs to see how many matches dolph and Kofi had together including house shows and it's around the 100 mark that's insane for only the last 3 years, I feel sorry for dolph :sad:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finished last week's Smackdown and RAW atm.

~ Every Orton vs Barrett match is the same. Granted, they're in a niche where they blow away all of their 2010 bouts.

~ Big Show vs Danielson was good. My favorite match from them this year.

~ Sheamus vs Del Rio = (Y) Quality bout.

~ I marked at the return of Drew McIntyre & Cody Rhodes. Both pick up the W's for their teams too. More marking.

~ Usos got some solid exposure tonight. Don't know if it means anything. I got a kick out of it. Too bad Kidd & Gabriel weren't in the 4 way tag.

~ Sheamus vs Dolph matches always rule. Sheamus continues his workhorse streak by having the best match on the show - AGAIN.

~ :mark: @ Cesaro dominating Kofi and making a solid match out of it too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd like to claim Rollins/Ambrose FCW series, if no-one else has already. Its only a small series so I may get around to doing another one (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do it, too it. (Y)

Reviewed that series last year. Maybe I'll bust out my reviews when you finish yours. We can compare and all that fun stuff. Brilliant series.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Watched a bit of the Brock DVD last night. Some good to great matches on the DVD. Rock/Brock took him from this hyped up monster to a legit star. I find it interesting how Heyman compares that match to Austin and Tyson on RAW as a moment. ****. Great match.

Taker/Brock I was also a very good match. Watch Taker/Brock II tonight in the cell.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm thinking I might do mine one at a time. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Your's is only about 5 matches though. I'm sure that can fit in one post. :hmm:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm lazy. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Tsk tsk.

Yeah1993 work your frizzy haired magic and find me the 6/7/10 Punk vs Cena match. I've tried. Fail.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

I'd be down for HBK/Orton if no one has taken it!


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So...

FINISHED EXAMS AND ONTO FOUR WEEKS OF WRASSLIN-MAS :hhh

Gonna head out to the mall and grab a few things for Christmas potentially. Still gotta get a gift for my girlfriend... OH BOY that's gonna be a fucking tough one since she's apparently spent over 200 on my gift, and I'm a cheap motherfucker so I have to find something that LOOKS expensive so that I can mask my complete ineptness. THEN IT`S HHH-HBK TIME. Fuck it, I might watch the entire series today since I`m stuck here for 24 hours :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So just so I'm prepared for my series...

Ground Zero 97
Badd Blood 97
RR 98
WM25
WM26

Correct?


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

We need a William Regal DVD set just for us wrestling fans, dude should is one of the GOATs and got epic matches and TV moments for years. Memorable gimmicks, story lines etc and I'm sure his documentary would be excellent too. He got so much to talk about. 


Damnit Vince!!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yep. (Y) @TLK

But for anyone looking to figure their's out.

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/the-undertaker-124.html?opp=96

Just search the wrestler and go to opponents/Partners and find the person. Gives you everything.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*William Regal vs Chris Benoit*: Brian Pillman Tribute Special *** 3/4 maybe ****


Started out slow and methodical, not very crowd friendly at first but as the pace quickened things got really good really fast. I haven't watched a Benoit (or Regal) match in awhile and I forgot how fuckin' physical these dudes are. They have great chemistry. Great match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If nobody has taken it yet, I'd like to do HBK/Orton. I think they only have something like 4 or 5 matches together. Since I finally have a day off tomorrow, I can do that and hopefully get it finished in one day lol. Anybody taken this yet or am I free to go ahead? Also, anybody have a list of their matches 

EDIT - Fuck that. Just checked on that iwd site and they have a bazillion TV matches together. Fuck. Now I'm back to not having anything to do lol. I don't want to be left out


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If I end up doing this thing everyone else is doing, I'll be sticking with Cena/Michaels. Fucking love that combo and they've only had 4 matches.

EDIT: Looks like 7 apparently.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> If nobody has taken it yet, I'd like to do HBK/Orton. I think they only have something like 4 or 5 matches together. Since I finally have a day off tomorrow, I can do that and hopefully get it finished in one day lol. Anybody taken this yet or am I free to go ahead? Also, anybody have a list of their matches
> 
> EDIT - Fuck that. Just checked on that iwd site and they have a bazillion TV matches together. Fuck. Now I'm back to not having anything to do lol. I don't want to be left out


I did HHH/Orton if you'd like to use it as your own.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12362581-post10719.html


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^ :lmao Fair enough. That's mine done then 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> If I end up doing this thing everyone else is doing, I'll be sticking with Cena/Michaels. Fucking love that combo and they've only had 4 matches.
> 
> EDIT: Looks like 7 apparently.


Yeah. Once you start reading through the list more matches start popping up lol. I'm completely stumped tbh. No fucking clue what to do. I know!! I think I'll do that lengthy HBK vs. Rock series. Fuck, I'll be here until next year doing that one....


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

@Starbuck 

Do HHH-Flair. Six singles matches with a TON of history behind them, including the very first WWE World Heavyweight Championship Defense, the special night in Greenville (On TURFC) , the two AWESOME 2005 gimmick matches, a match in 2006, and finally a match on Flair's "career threatening" last run throughout the company in DEC 2007.

You know you WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT it :hhh :flair


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HHH/Flair series would be an awesome write up, imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Best In The North Pole said:


> @Starbuck
> 
> Do HHH-Flair. Six singles matches with a TON of history behind them, including the very first WWE World Heavyweight Championship Defense, the special night in Greenville (On TURFC) , the two AWESOME 2005 gimmick matches, a match in 2006, and finally a match on Flair's "career threatening" last run throughout the company in DEC 2007.
> 
> You know you WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT it :hhh :flair


:yes :yes :yes

Great call although I don't know if I will be able to contain my markdom lol. I think I'll settle for this then. Thanks KOK....or....BITNP.....


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm a bit jealous.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So, what's all this talk about match series write-up/reviews? I haven't been on this thread in a day or two, so a bit of info would be awesome. I assume we just pick two guys and go through the list of singles matches they've had? 

If so, and if no one's picked it yet, I got Taker/Brock. If someone has picked it, fuck you.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I'm a bit jealous.


:hhh

Why, what are you doing?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> So, what's all this talk about match series write-up/reviews? I haven't been on this thread in a day or two, so a bit of info would be awesome. I assume we just pick two guys and go through the list of singles matches they've had?
> 
> If so, and if no one's picked it yet, I got Taker/Brock. If someone has picked it, fuck you.


Bingo. Just write anything from a short overview to a near essay depending on the length of the match and how much you love/loathe it. No real set length or criteria, you can post reviews one at a time or save them all for a massive post depending on the number of matches and the time each one gets.

Haven't seen Brock/Taker be mentioned IIRC, so I'd say you're good to go.

Can't believe no-one went for Rey/Eddie. The 2005 series speaks for itself but they also have the 3/18/04 Smackdown WWE Title match and I imagine you could include their WCW matches into the discussion as well.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Starbuck, dibs on HBK/Orton! Lol Didn't realize they had that many tv matches though. Oh well, should be fun. 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> :hhh
> 
> Why, what are you doing?


Mine's pretty legit, too. HBK/Taker. Only 5 matches, :hb!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Bingo. Just write anything from a short overview to a near essay depending on the length of the match and how much you love/loathe it. No real set length or criteria, you can post reviews one at a time or save them all for a massive post depending on the number of matches and the time each one gets.
> 
> Haven't seen Brock/Taker be mentioned IIRC, so I'd say you're good to go.


:yes

So just to clarify, their only singles matches would be:

Unforgiven 02
No Mercy 02
No Mercy 03

Gonna enjoy this.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

And WM29 :side:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> And WM29 :side:


Only if we're lucky.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> :yes
> 
> So just to clarify, their only singles matches would be:
> 
> ...


And this one:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq...g-house-show_sport?search_algo=2#.UMePaIaQPSg


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> And this one:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq...g-house-show_sport?search_algo=2#.UMePaIaQPSg


Cool, never seen this one before. Out of curiosity, when did it take place?


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Can I call dibs on Brock Lesnar vs Big Show?

Love the chemistry between them and its been far, far too long since I've seen Judgement Day 2003...

On a side note, does anyone know how many matches they had together? Off the top of my head I can recall;
Survivor Series 2002
Royal Rumble 2003
Judgment Day 2003
SD 2003 (ring break) - date?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ring collapse is 6/12/03.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> Cool, never seen this one before. Out of curiosity, when did it take place?


9/20/03



Kane-UK said:


> Can I call dibs on Brock Lesnar vs Big Show?
> 
> Love the chemistry between them and its been far, far too long since I've seen Judgement Day 2003...
> 
> ...


In addition they also have:

Lesnar vs Show Smackdown 6/10/03 (ring break)
Lesnar vs Show Smackdown 6/17/03


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks guys.

That gives me a nice manageable 5 matches to go off when I've got some spare time...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TheShowstappa92002 said:


> Starbuck, dibs on HBK/Orton! Lol Didn't realize they had that many tv matches though. Oh well, should be fun.


You were doing it already? Good thing I got :hhh / :flair2 then lol. 



The Reindeer Killer said:


> Mine's pretty legit, too. HBK/Taker. Only 5 matches, :hb!


Yeah. I couldn't have taken on anything longer then 5/6 tbh. No time. I'll get started on these tomorrow. I'm actually looking forward to it and all.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Bingo. Just write anything from a short overview to a near essay depending on the length of the match and how much you love/loathe it. No real set length or criteria, you can post reviews one at a time or save them all for a massive post depending on the number of matches and the time each one gets.
> 
> Haven't seen Brock/Taker be mentioned IIRC, so I'd say you're good to go.
> 
> Can't believe no-one went for Rey/Eddie. The 2005 series speaks for itself but they also have the 3/18/04 Smackdown WWE Title match and I imagine you could include their WCW matches into the discussion as well.


No one's went for Rey/Eddie? I'll take that then. How matches did they have together?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fuckkkk Rey/Eddie probably had like 30 matches or something if you want to watch WCW as well.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> ^Tsk tsk.
> 
> Yeah1993 work your frizzy haired magic and find me the 6/7/10 Punk vs Cena match. I've tried. Fail.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdlptl_wwe-raw-6-7-10-part-11-12-hq_people#.UMeUsYNhCWY
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdlo85_wwe-raw-6-7-10-part-12-12-hq_sport#.UMeUa4NhCWY

MAGIC


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rey/Eddie have 19 matches 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/rey-mysterio-351.html?opp=309


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cacti Roasting On An Open Fire said:


> No one's went for Rey/Eddie? I'll take that then. How matches did they have together?


Holy shit, good luck with that. Looks like 20:

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/eddie-guerrero-309.html?opp=351


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cacti Roasting On An Open Fire said:


> No one's went for Rey/Eddie? I'll take that then. How matches did they have together?


Counting WCW and WWE (up to you whether you make it strictly WWE):

Eddie/Mysterio 9/8/97 Nitro
Eddie/Mysterio 9/29/97 Nitro (Eddie as El Caliente)
Eddie/Mysterio 10/26/97 Halloween Havoc
Eddie/Mysterio 11/10/97 Nitro
Eddie/Mysterio 11/23/97 World War III
Eddie/Mysterio 12/16/97 Saturday Night
Eddie/Mysterio 1/22/98 Thunder
Eddie/Mysterio 11/5/98 Thunder
Eddie/Mysterio 11/9/98 Nitro
Eddie/Mysterio 11/16/98 Nitro
Eddie/Mysterio 12/21/98 Nitro

Eddie/Mysterio 11/12/02 Smackdown
Eddie/Mysterio 3/18/04 Smackdown
Eddie/Mysterio 1/4/05 Smackdown
Eddie/Mysterio 4/3/05 Wrestlemania 21
Eddie/Mysterio 5/22/05 Judgement Day
Eddie/Mysterio 6/23/05 Smackdown
Eddie/Mysterio 7/24/05 Great American Bash
Eddie/Mysterio 8/21/05 Summerslam
Eddie/Mysterio 9/6/05 Smackdown Steel Cage

EDIT: Well shit I guess I could have just posted the link. Ah well, extra mile and all that jazz.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Ehhhhhh. Kinda changed my mind now. I fancied this to be a short little project where I can watch 5/6 matches and be done with it. No way my ADD can handle 20. :lmao

Anyone got any suggestions for a short series that hasn't been taken? Any era's good with me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

huh 20 is actually less than I thought. I'm only doing 5 less than that and Rey/Eddie doesn't have any WCW match that goes over 15 minutes IIRC. Hell they probably only have two matches that goes over ten.

edit- HOW MANY MATCHES DID KANE/ALBERT HAVE?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Slaughter/Sheik is a great 3 match series, with the feud ender being the best match in company history.

Dates are:

4/23/84 (MSG)
5/21/84 (MSG)
6/16/84 Boot Camp (MSG)

Only issue might be links being notoriously difficult to come across.



Yeah1993 said:


> huh 20 is actually less than I thought. I'm only doing 5 less than that and Rey/Eddie doesn't have any WCW match that goes over 15 minutes IIRC. Hell they probably only have two matches that goes over ten.
> 
> edit- HOW MANY MATCHES DID KANE/ALBERT HAVE?


Halloween Havoc, 3/18/04, Wrestlemania 21, Judgement Day, 6/23/05, GAB, Summerslam and Smackdown Steel Cage are all 10 mins+. You're right though that most of their WCW matches from memory are sub 10 minutes.

1/17/00 Raw
6/12/01 Smackdown
6/26/01 Smackdown


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There are definitely more than 3 Slaughter/Sheiks.

short one from Feb 84 - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x99pd3_sgt-slaughter-vs-iron-sheik_sport

These from GGBrutal's Slaughter comp
Sgt. Slaughter vs. Iron Sheik (Capital Centre, 5/19/84) 
Sgt. Slaughter vs. Iron Sheik (Capital Centre, 6/9/84) 

Six, I guess. The problem *would* be coming across all of them, but there's at least 4 online, methinks.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Somebody should do Orton/Del Rio......or Miz/Kofi.......or Seamus/Del Rio.......or Orton/Barrett.....


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Huh, I used that site everyone else linked and they only showed 3 matches with the others being tag/battle royal matches.

Tito Santana vs Greg Valentine. According to the site they have 8 matches between 84-88:

Santana/Valentine 6/16/84
Santana/Valentine 8/25/84
Santana/Valentine 10/22/84
Santana/Valentine 11/26/84
Santana/Valentine 1/21/85
Santana/Valentine 3/17/85
Santana/Valentine 3/11/87
Santana/Valentine 11/26/88


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Anybody who's seen/reviewed the Ambrose/Rollins series, can anybody correct me if I'm wrong in saying these are their only TELEVISED matches.

8.14.11 - First 15 Championship Match
8.28.11 - Second 15 Championship Match
9.18.11 - 30 Minute 15 Championship Match
10.2.11 - Super 8 Elimination Qualifying Match
6.24.12 - FCW Heavyweight Championship Match

I know they had a match at Mania Axxess this year as well, but I'm not exactly interested in that, tbh. :lmao So yeah, they're the only matches I could find, so if anybody could make any additions, if there are any, then I would be highly grateful. If they're the only matches, then just let me know and I can get cracking on it tomorrow.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I saw the Slaughter/Sheik series not too long ago. Fantastic stuff and I echo WOOLCOCK's thoughts on the final match being the best thing WWE has ever done. I had no idea Sheiky Baby was that good.

May attempt the Santana/Valentine series if I can track down all the matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SANTA GAME said:


> Somebody should do Orton/Del Rio......or Miz/Kofi.......or Seamus/Del Rio.......or Orton/Barrett.....


Talk about torture. :lol

----------------------------------------

Orton/Cena is gonna be 15 matches for me but it'll be a bit time consuming to sit through every single PPV match since they go on for quite a bit on most of them but I'll watch them sparingly on a daily basis and save a write-up on each until I'm done!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Random question...have Cena and Benoit ever had a match together? I'm drawing a complete blank here as I think about it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

These are the only links I can track down so far Cactus.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Santana/Valentine 6/16/84 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHVZR7UUjiQ (part 1)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHVZR7UUjiQ (part 2)
> 
> Santana/Valentine 8/25/84 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd_SFX8B_Fs
> ...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SANTA GAME said:


> Random question...have Cena and Benoit ever had a match together? I'm drawing a complete blank here as I think about it.


Cena/Benoit had a match the night where Benoit faced Lesnar (12/4/03), as well as a few more in 03 I saw this year, plus one in 07 where Benoit tapped to the STFU. I remember that really, really, really annoying me when I was younger. :sad:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> Random question...have Cena and Benoit ever had a match together? I'm drawing a complete blank here as I think about it.


Yeah. A few weeks before WM 23 on Raw. Cena made Benoit tap and everyone was sad.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Thanks. 

If I can't find the remaining matches, I may just be a lazy shit and do the Ziggler/Bryan series if nobody has already called dibs on it. I remember thinking their Bragging Rights match was a classic at the time. Always wondered if it held up.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SANTA GAME said:


> Random question...have Cena and Benoit ever had a match together? I'm drawing a complete blank here as I think about it.


I think they've had 5 TV matches on Smackdown back in 2003. Also another in 2007 before WM23 where Cena beat Benoit like a jobber with the STF. 

Their best one is from the 4th December episode of Smackdown 03.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Benoit tapping to the STF pissed me off so much at the time. :/


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yes, that's right. Should have remembered Benoit tapping to the STFU lol. DEM SUBMISSION SKILLS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

#10YearsOfBrutalSubmissionHolds :cena2


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Why would anyone ever mention Cena/Benoit and benoit tapping out ever? That's just a no-no. I still can't believe they did that


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena has three submission victories at Wrestlemania. That's two more than anybody else. Therefore.....

:cena2 = Submission Master of the WWE


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All this talk of it makes me wanna review their little series of matches at some point. Off the top of my head, I can think of these matches:

- Two weeks before Backlash for the #1 contender spot against Lesnar
- The week before Judgment Day
- Some time after JD, Rhyno hits Benoit by accident with the steel chain, costing him the match
- #1 contender match for Lesnar's championship in December
- The infamous 2007 one... ugh.

What's even more stupid about their last match is the fact Cena used Benoit to make a statement to HBK for their WM23 match as if HBK is a tougher opponent than Benoit. Kayfabe, it makes no sense since Benoit made HBK tap out back in 04.



jonoaries said:


> Why would anyone ever mention Cena/Benoit and benoit tapping out ever? That's just a no-no. I still can't believe they did that


If you want to recover from that, we got the footage!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's a shame that Benoit didn't live long enough to tap out to the anaconda vice ....

unk2 unk


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> It's a shame that Benoit didn't live long enough to tap out to the anaconda vice ....
> 
> unk2 unk


Thank God for that!

What's sad is that I actually think this would have been a possibility. So if Benoit offed himself, he chose the right time and if he was killed, the killer(s) saved him the embarrassment even if it came at the expense of his legacy! _(random: it's interesting to me that "Chris Benoit was murdered" is the top suggestion that comes after I google his name)_

But fuck, I think he would have left behind plenty of memorable moments in the HD era had he been around a little longer or preferably, still alive. Those bastards at WWE have done a great job at making him look like his existence was a long time. From the complete lack of mentions to the fact that they went HD in 2008, making the shows feel "refreshed" after being "dirty" by the tragedy surrounding them. When I watch something from 2007 compared to 2008, it doesn't feel like they're just a year apart from each other. 2007 just feels so... old.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I want to see Taker make a bitch tap out at Mania in Jersey. Brock, Punk, or Cena will do.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> #10YearsOfBrutalSubmissionHolds :cena2


I don't think Cena started using the STFU until 2005.. so really it's only been 7 years :cena2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm starting to think that you traveled back in time just to kill him yourself, because in some alternate universe Benoit taps out to Punk multiple times and Punk goes on to have an 8 year reign as WWE Champion, making Benoit tap out 319 consecutive times. 

Benoit couldn't handle DAT MAIN EVENT LOOK :heyman


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> I'm starting to think that you traveled back in time just to kill him yourself, because in some alternate universe Benoit taps out to Punk multiple times and Punk goes on to have an 8 year reign as WWE Champion, making Benoit tap out 319 consecutive times.
> 
> Benoit couldn't handle DAT MAIN EVENT LOOK :heyman


Yep, I have psychic abilities and saw Benoit was under the threat of jobbing to Punk so like the good fan I am, I saved my hero from being embarrassed. I just have to go public about it. Soon I'll be in a WWE arena, interrupting Punk's boring promos and I'll confess what I've done. WWE will have no choice but to acknowledge him or else the same thing happens to them. It doesn't matter if they are CM Punk, Vince McMahon or the random production guy that focuses on the camera angles shown on TV. Nobody's safe from me. unk4


On a different note, is it me or do the WWE absolutely NEVER acknowledge the ABA Undertaker? On their youtube channel, I've only seen a snippet of his JD match with Hogan and on WWE.com, I never see anything about Biker Taker. I'm starting to think if they do Brock/Taker at WM29, they'll pretend that it's the first time ever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Highly doubt he ever reverts to that gimmick. It fits the Attitude Era (something WWE is clearly far from being) perfectly. He will remain with the classic Deadman gimmick until retirement, I'm sure. 

Plus, wasn't Taker the ABA when they feuded 10 years ago? I would think it'd be nice to see Deadman Taker vs BROCK now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm telling you, it's Rock-Brock II. That had this shit planned a year in advance. Fuck, they probably have the main event for XXX already planned with all of these main event players running around :lol 

It's how they talked Rock into coming back for another year. BOX OFFICE RECORDS WITH DA BROCKTAGON :brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Highly doubt he ever reverts to that gimmick. It fits the Attitude Era (something WWE is clearly far from being) perfectly. He will remain with the classic Deadman gimmick until retirement, I'm sure.
> 
> Plus, wasn't Taker the ABA when they feuded 10 years ago? I would think it'd be nice to see Deadman Taker vs BROCK now.


I know, I never said anything about him returning to it. I just mean that they pretty much act like he was never the more human American Badass. I don't see any footage of it on TV, they never have any articles on wwe.com that say anything about the ABA and their youtube channel is almost empty of any Taker footage from 2000-2003.

They didn't even show him in the Lesnar video packages when he had returned, did they? I just remember it being mostly TNA guys (RVD, Jeff Hardy, Hogan, Angle) but I may be mistaken. Plus I've also heard that Vince never wants to hear anyone talk about it backstage.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Never caught on to that. Wonder why that'd be the case.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Raw Is War 01/08/2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Title: Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin*

Awesome fucking match. Both men worked hard and Angle looked like a real world champion for once and it was nice precursor to the epics these two would have through the year. Angle being determined not to be shown up with Suplexes by Austin early on, so he hits Austin with like 2 or 3 of every Suplex he can and yells at Austin about how he can do it better. Was great, the only thing i didn't like was the ending i would of preferred it if Angle got the dirty pin over Austin thanks to Triple H’s run-in. That would have given Angle much-needed credibility and added fuel to the Austin/Triple H feud. But i guess they didn't want Austin to eat a pin. ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol at the guy in the Taker thread who said that CM Punk call out the Undertaker by calling him "Mark". I mean damn, I know he's done it before (Dwayne, Randall,Paul) but it's not his FUCKING GIMMICK 

What's next? Calling out Cena and calling him "Johnathon Felix Anthony" ? That would make me LOL. Imagine if the Hardy Boys did took up this gimmick ; "THIS ISN'T MATT HARDY TALKING TO JEFF HARDY, THIS IS MATT HARDY TALKING TO JEFF HARDY" :lol

Anyways, onto ABA Taker. A surprisingly good performance would be JD 2002 against Hogan which surpassed EVERYTHING else they did by a mile. Not great by any means, but a solid character performance by Taker during his awesome fucking reign as a heel in 02. Besides the fact that Hogan wouldn't jump for the damn chokeslam or bump in any way, shape or form, Taker dragged a decent match out of Hogan's old ass.

Punk-Taker is a given at this point IMO. Goes out at Wrestlemania XXX against John Cena in the main event. However, if by some small chance we get a combination of Cena-Taker this year, Punk going over Rock and whoever his opponent is at Mania, and Wrestlemania being held in Texas stadium, it ALL points to one thing...

:austin . One can dream, right ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Mrs Claus's Cleavage said:


> *WWF Raw Is War 01/08/2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Title: Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin*
> 
> Awesome fucking match. Both men worked hard and Angle looked like a real world champion for once and it was nice precursor to the epics these two would have through the year. Angle being determined not to be shown up with Suplexes by Austin early on, so he hits Austin with like 2 or 3 of every Suplex he can and yells at Austin about how he can do it better. Was great, the only thing i didn't like was the ending i would of preferred it if Angle got the dirty pin over Austin thanks to Triple H’s run-in. That would have given Angle much-needed credibility and added fuel to the Austin/Triple H feud. But i guess they didn't want Austin to eat a pin. ****


Great Raw main event match and excellent build for the Austin/Triple H feud as you stated. I still LOL at JR's commentary for that closing segment. It's one of the best moments for a heel to screw the top face out of the title match. Perfect ending to Raw.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> Great Raw main event match and excellent build for the Austin/Triple H feud as you stated.* I still LOL at JR's commentary for that closing segment*. It's one of the best moments for a heel to screw the top face out of the title match. Perfect ending to Raw.


THIS. :lmao Fucking JR. He makes this segment just....I don't even know lol. 

"Go in there and fight him! There ain't no anchor tied to your ass!"

"You can feel it! You can see it! You can taste it! Ahhhhhhh!"

"Triple H has screwed Austin out of the DUBYA DUBYA EFF BAH GAWD TITLE!"

And the list goes on and on. I miss JR


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'll tell you this - it's a billion times better than "Look out! Look OUT!!!" :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah. The Raw ending this week was all sorts of awesome apart from LOOOOOOKKKKKK OOUUUUUUTTTTTT. Fucking fail. 

PS - I'm Punk feuds with Taker and calls him Mark then I'm done lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^^^^ Taker would probably bury him worse than 2009 and the losing streak on PPVs that followed if Punk would resort to doing it!

We all know Punk doesn't contribute a lick to WWE financially, so it's not like they would shoot themselves in the foot by burying him. They would actually do themselves a favor. unk3


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Dude Idk what you guys are talking about. I lost my shit when Cole was yelling "LOOK OUT~! LOOK OUUUUUTTT~~!~!~!" What a cliffhanger. Definitely ordering the PPV now.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If TLC was free on Sky Sports I actually think I'd stay up and watch it. Cena/Dolph should be good, I'm really digging Show/Seamus atm and the TLC has the potential to be a total clusterfuck lol. I'm not willing to pay for it though. Next PPV I buy will be the Rumble, possibly EC and then Mania. After that, who the fuck knows lol.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

SANTA GAME said:


> THIS. :lmao Fucking JR. He makes this segment just....I don't even know lol.
> 
> "Go in there and fight him! There ain't no anchor tied to your ass!"
> 
> ...


I love JR. He makes things so exciting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

jonoaries said:


> I love JR. He makes things so exciting.


I swear when he came out to call the HIAC at Mania this year I marked, probably more for him than I did anybody else lol. He makes everything better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm gonna miss TLC live because my Patriots take on the 49ers in a crucial Sunday Night Football game, and I'm not missing that to order a show that doesn't even have CM Punk performing on it. Going to avoid spoilers and do what all CM Punk fans do ; STREAM   

I'm off classes until Jan 7 so I'll have my review up at 5 AM Monday morning probably , to be read by *Hailsabin* and nobody else ..... Except for everybody in the U.K .... They'll probably be awake unless they're lazy motherfuckers like me :brock


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm definitely buying The Royal Rumble and probably WrestleMania too next year. Hopefully the build lives up to the potential hype for the big matches they put together. TLC PPV could be a lot of fun this Sunday. I will miss it doing other things this weekend but I'm just ready for January anyway at this point.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TLC seems like it will be a fun card. I always order the Rumble and Mania. If ROCKY performs at EC, I'll probably get that as well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I understood that they needed to build hype for Rock coming back and all but all it did was render everything in between completely useless tbh. Everybody and their mother knew and knows that it's going to be Punk/Rock at the Rumble so Punk was never in any danger of losing the strap therefore his feuds were basically meaningless. Double edged sword. In any event, so long as Punk/Rock isn't PHIL/DWAYNE then I'm sold. Heyman/Rock on the mic could be gold lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, it was basically filler from SummerSlam onward. That's why I'm happy they fed Punk people like Cena (who will get as many title matches as he wants) and Ryback (someone I don't really care about) and not someone legit (Bryan, Ziggler, Cesaro) in the meantime.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ziggler and Bryan already got fed to SuperPunk. (pre heel turn)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, but that was before the inevitability of Punk/Rock. Those matches didn't feel like a complete waste, despite knowing that Punk wouldn't lose the strap.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Is it just me, or is the Royal Rumble looking more hyped than Wrestlemania XXVIII ?

I say this because of the drama surrounding the event. We all knew Trips wasn't going to end the streak, Jericho wasn't going to take the title, etc. The one BIG match that wasn't obvious was Rock vs Cena, and that had NO future implications placed on it whatsoever it seemed. It was a one night thing, and that's about it.

This year we have Punk vs Rock for the WWE Championship, a match that's going to provoke some REALLY huge markish feelings from fans due to the outcome directly effecting the future heading into EC and especially into Mania. Couple that with the always super hyped and super exciting Royal Rumble, and honestly ; It's VERY rare that I'm this excited for a show nowadays. I may have cared less about Survivor Series than any other PPV in history (Ryback was in the main event FFS) , and to have that turn around into this year's Rumble is tremendous. We don't even know what the WHC picture will even look like in a few weeks, so just the thrill of the unknown is present. That's probably why I'm so hyped for Mania XXIX.... The possibilities are endless.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hopefully Ziggler cashes in at TLC.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I'm putting together a list of Cena's best matches and I wasn't going to mention anything until I'm done but I just have to talk about the hot mess of a match that was the triple at Unforgiven 2005 against HBK and Angle.

This match was nothing but a bunch of stupid suplexes from Angle. I don't know what it is, but this Mr. Intensity gimmick is so annoying. I just hate seeing shit like this. I can't stand it it. Especially when they do the whole tensing up and screaming shit. I don't know if it's because the indies is filled with nothing but a bunch of Kurt Angle wanna be's these days, but whenever I see the original do it, it irks me. 

I just didn't like this match. The ending stretch with Cena kicking Angle in his face and Angle holding on, I hate shit like that. I just do. The first time okay, the second time okay. But the third time? Then the spot where Michaels does the elbow drop while Kurt has the ankle lock on Cena. It's dumb. How dumb could Kurt have been to be laying on his back, looking up at Michaels' on the rope and just stay there? The match blows imo.

**1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Like him or not, Ryback got a shitty deal. They basically ruined him at his first PPV. He could have made a decent enough monster imo. It's fun to watch him fuck shit up but a lot of his aura is gone after eating 2 losses in a row. Once again he's put in a match where it's his momentum against somebody else's in the Shield this time. One of them is getting squashed lol.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I never order PPVs, I get them on DVD and I'm still unsure about this one. I'll wait til I see everybody's reviews. But I am antsy to see this 6 man TLC match...that should be a fun match. 


Speaking of PPVs, was NOC, MITB or HIAC 12 any good?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would mark for Ziggler cashing in before his Ladder match w/Cena. Makeshift PPV a la No Mercy 2007.

edit MITB was legit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

jonoaries said:


> I never order PPVs, I get them on DVD and I'm still unsure about this one. I'll wait til I see everybody's reviews. But I am antsy to see this 6 man TLC match...that should be a fun match.
> 
> 
> Speaking of PPVs, was NOC, MITB or HIAC 12 any good?


MITB was good.

As for NOC, Punk/Cena is what you come to expect from the two. And bear with me when I say this but Layla/Eve is worth checking out. If your a fan of old school southern style of wrestling, then you'll like it. Good psychology.

HIAC had Show/Sheamus which tore the house down. And I found Punk/Ryback to be fun while it lasted.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm thinking Cena somehow weasles his way into the WHC picture come Wrestlemania, adding to my theory that he'll be in the third most important match on the card come XXIX behind Brock-Rock and Punk-MARK. The only way that doesn't work is simple ; RANDALL is too big for the WHC now, so how the fuck will Cena work with it ? That'd be like giving Punk the Intercontinental Title now... What the fuck....


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm done speculating on the Mania card lol. My gut tells me Rock/Cena II and Brock/Taker but we'll find out soon enough so I can wait.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Why do people set themselves for disappointment? The way some people talk on here it's like you swear it's a guarantee that Cena/Rock II will be taking place and Brock/Taker will be taking place. Guys, just shut the fuck up and enjoy the goddamn show and let things play out and unfold before your eyes. 

At this point we don't even know what the fuck we're getting for Rumble (except an appearance from Rock) far less for Mania.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> MITB was good.
> 
> As for NOC, Punk/Cena is what you come to expect from the two. And bear with me when I say this but Layla/Eve is worth checking out. If your a fan of old school southern style of wrestling, then you'll like it. Good psychology.
> 
> HIAC had Show/Sheamus which tore the house down. And I found Punk/Ryback to be fun while it lasted.


I generally like the concept behind NOC as a PPV (loved last years but didn't see any of the previous ones bar Vengeance the first NOC). I've never seen a HIAC PPV


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I'm putting together a list of Cena's best matches and I wasn't going to mention anything until I'm done but I just have to talk about the hot mess of a match that was the triple at *Unforgiven 2005* against HBK and Angle.
> 
> This match was nothing but a bunch of stupid suplexes from Angle. I don't know what it is, but this Mr. Intensity gimmick is so annoying. I just hate seeing shit like this. I can't stand it it. Especially when they do the whole tensing up and screaming shit. I don't know if it's because the indies is filled with nothing but a bunch of Kurt Angle wanna be's these days, but whenever I see the original do it, it irks me.
> 
> ...


Do you mean Taboo Tuesday '05? Because that was the main event for Taboo Tuesday. Unforgiven '05 had Cena vs Angle and HBK vs Masters.

*The reason I know this is because I am currently reviewing the HBK/Angle series.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SANTA GAME said:


> I'm done speculating on the Mania card lol. My gut tells me Rock/Cena II and Brock/Taker but we'll find out soon enough so I can wait.


I really hope that's what happens. Plus the WHC match involving Sheamus and Orton. And maybe Ziggler too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Do you mean Taboo Tuesday '05? Because that was the main event for Taboo Tuesday. Unforgiven '05 had Cena vs Angle and HBK vs Masters.
> 
> *The reason I know this is because I am currently reviewing the HBK/Angle series.


Yeah, it's Taboo Tuesday. My bad.

BTW, Unforgiven 2005 was just Angle/Cena.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Yeah, it's Taboo Tuesday. My bad.
> 
> BTW, Unforgiven 2005 was just Angle/Cena.


I know. I didn't mean they had a 4way. I meant Angle/Cena and HBK/Masters at Unforgiven.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

OK, I am probably not going to see TLC this weekend, so here is my list of my top ten favorite WWE PPV matches of 2012. 

Note, the only PPV I missed besides the upcoming TLC is Night of Champions. 

10) Sheamus -c- Vs. Daniel Bryan: World Heavyweight Championship 2 Out of 3 Falls Match from Extreme Rules 2012 = Not a classic or anything, but the theme of this show seemed to be doing better versions of Wrestlemania matches. This one was at least, you know, a match. It was well worked and Bryan showed off what he can do. 

9) Dolph Ziggler Vs. Damien Sandow Vs. Tyson Kidd Vs. Christian Vs. Santino Marella Vs. Tensai Vs. Cody Rhodes Vs. Sin Cara: Money in the Bank Ladder Match from Money in the Bank 2012 = Fun spot fest. It was especially cool to see Ziggler bump all over the place. It was also nice to see him get the victory here. 

8) CM Punk -c- Vs. Chris Jericho Vs. The Miz Vs. Dolph Ziggler Vs. Kofi Kingston Vs. R-Truth: WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match from Elimination Chamber 2012 = I disagreed with Punk & Jericho wrestling each other in any capacity prior to Wrestlemania, and the way they got around Punk not beating Jericho yet but keeping the title was kind of weak, but overall, this was a fun and action packed match. With guys like Ziggler & Kofi involved, you can expect great action and with guys like Punk & Jericho in there, you know it is going to be exciting regardless. 

7) Chris Jericho Vs. Dolph Ziggler: Summerslam 2012 = The next night on Raw they did the Contract Vs. Money in the Bank Briefcase Match in a rushed bout. Personally, I felt like they should have done this match with that stip at Summerslam, especially since they kept building it up as "Can Jericho still win the big one?". So "The Big One" is a regular singles match that opens a PPV? It would have been bigger with the stips. As it was though, it was a very strong match up that showcased the best of both talents. Jericho & Ziggler can have good matches with just about anybody, so putting them together was a great idea. 

6) The Rock Vs. John Cena: Wrestlemania XXVIII = Certainly the biggest match of the year. It has its flaws. It was about 10 minutes too long, both guys were clearly blown up by the end, and it was clear they wanted to recapture the Hogan Vs. Rock atmosphere and they never quite got that. However, it was a big match and had a lot of intrigue attached to it, and I just marked out seeing The Rock in the ring again. It was a good match with a big main event feel, and I'll be honest. I did kind of jump for joy when Rock won, lol. 

5) CM Punk -c- Vs. Daniel Bryan: WWE Championship Match from Over the Limit 2012 = Beyond the talents involved, this match had nothing going for it. No build up. DB's credibility got flushed down the tubes with huge loses preceding this and for some ungodly reason, this took a backseat to the oh so important Cena Vs. Laurinitas feud. However, for just pure wrestling, it was great and Punk & DB worked their asses off to make the most out of nothing. It was a very good match that set the stage for better stuff down the road. 

4) CM Punk -c- Vs. Daniel Bryan w/AJ as Guest Referee: WWE Championship No Holds Barred Match from Money in the Bank 2012 = OK, Cena is still getting the main event spotlight, but at least they put ALOT more build and emphasis on these two this time around. Quite honestly, it was an excellent match. The added element of AJ added a spark and the action in the ring was top notch as expected. I thought the finish was very good too. It had a little bit of everything and I always love that. 

3) CM Punk -c- Vs. Chris Jericho: WWE Championship Street Fight from Extreme Rules 2012 = I was heavily disappointed with their outing at Wrestlemania, but they bounced back big time with this one. It wasn't just that it was a hardcore match, but it had an intensity to it that I felt the previous match was lacking. This felt like a match between two guys that hated each other. So many great things happened in this one that I am not even sure how to explain them all. It was just damn great and Jericho's best outing in his return by far. 

2) Brock Lesnar Vs. John Cena: Extreme Rules Match from Extreme Rules 2012 = This match was so unique and so exciting, I had to rank it high. This wasn't the typical modern day formula. This felt like Cena was in the ring with a completely different animal that he was not prepared for and he just got steamrolled the whole time. I know most Cena matches are "He gets his ass kicked and then comes back and wins" but this one truly did feel like he was in a hopeless situation because it felt like he wasn't in a WWE match. It felt like he was facing Brock in a shoot fight and getting dominated all the way. There were no five moves of doom here and Cena had to pull off some huge moves to get the win (I disagreed with him going over, but whatever). It was also Lesnar's first match back following his return, so that gave it a big match atmosphere and it was certainly one of the can't miss attractions of the year. 

1) The Undertaker Vs. Triple H w/Shawn Michaels as Guest Referee: Hell in a Cell Match at Wrestlemania XXVIII = Well yeah, this is the obvious one. Just a great all around match that featured strong performances from guys that we don't get to see that often anymore. Heck, I am tempted to give MVP award in this match to the referee as Shawn added ALOT to this match from his expressions to his actions and everything in between. It was dramatic too and for the first time in a while, they actually sort of made me think that the streak might end on the Superkick/Pedigree combo.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I thought that Ziggler/Jericho match felt average and it meant nothing for either competitor

I'd probably have the same top 5, though (not in that order). Maybe swap Jericho/Punk for their Mania bout. Big fan of that, **** 1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I really hope that's what happens. Plus the WHC match involving Sheamus and Orton. And maybe Ziggler too.


Yeah. I'm not getting too fussed over Rock/Cena II anymore and tbh, I'd much rather it happen now at the Mania I'm not going to rather than run the risk of it happening at the one I most certainly will be going to lol. I'm more curious about what this years card means for next years card. On a personal note, I absolutely positively want to be in attendance for Cena/Taker so if that match is to happen, I want it to happen at 30. On the same token, I have warmed to the idea of Rock/Brock. I'm not completely sold on it just yet but I wouldn't mind it for 30 either. For those reasons, I'm not opposed to them getting Rock/Cena II out of the way which clears up room for the big matches at 30.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DAMNIT STARBUCK... DON'T WISH ROCK-CENA II ON US!

We're NOT getting Rock-Cena II, and I'm pretty certain about that at this point. I've started saving for XXX so it can be my first live WWE show ever (where I'm from the WWE hasn't ran a house show in 5 years, and it SUCKED when it was here.... Cena vs Orton main event  ), and I want Austin-Punk BADLY (I'd say there's a .001 chance it happens obviously).

For this year ? We've ran all the possibilities into the ground by now. We won't know really until the Rumble is over how things will materialize and the speculation is really tearing me apart. My last minute instincts say and want Rock-Brock & Punk-Taker. If BORK isn't at XXX, I'm going to fucking RAGE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Fuckkkk Rey/Eddie probably had like 30 matches or something if you want to watch WCW as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HOW DO YOU DO IT? :mark:



Best In The North Pole said:


> I'm gonna miss TLC live because my Patriots take on the 49ers in a crucial Sunday Night Football game, and I'm not missing that to order a show that doesn't even have CM Punk performing on it. Going to avoid spoilers and do what all CM Punk fans do ; STREAM
> 
> I'm off classes until Jan 7 so I'll have my review up at 5 AM Monday morning probably , to be read by *Hailsabin* and nobody else ..... Except for everybody in the U.K .... They'll probably be awake unless they're lazy motherfuckers like me :brock


That's the beauty of not sleeping. I get to post on this place~!

I loved how this project has taken shape. I probably could have done Eddie/Mysterio matches. 20 matches isn't much when they're glorious to watch. Own a handful already. Would only need their WCW TV matches. Maybe that one could be done the next time this goes down.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

SANTA GAME said:


> Heyman/Rock on the mic could be gold lol.


I was agreeing with this, until I imagined Rocky blathering on about "#Walrusparts" trending worldwide. Brrr.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a legit insomniac. I drink about 3-5 cups of coffee a day and don't even TRY to sleep until about 4:30 AM , I probably succeed in sleeping sometime around 5:30 AM and wake up somewhere between 12-3ish the next day :lol

This project has been awesome. I'm trapped in the city tonight, so I just watched/reviewed all the Trips-Shawn matches I don't own (96,97,06... Well I own 97 but it isn't essential that I watch it on disc anyways). About a good 300-350 word review for each one that sums up my feelings on the match. Own the other 7 in my WWE library which I'm going to crack open once I get home tomorrow evening. Can't wait to get home and dive into a month of WRESTLING.

ON TAP 4 TONIGHT ;

- FINISHING DAT DAMN LOD DVD!
- Superstar Collection ; Shawn Michaels (it's an hour and a half long FFS)
- MAYBE attempt to watch LOW : JYD & Jerry 'The King' Lawler 

Those are the only three DVDs I have with me... Should hold me over


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My reviews aren't THAT immense. Yet. I'm sure the PPV matches will hit around that level. That's only b/c I've decided to go the commentary route + review. Got Cena vs Punk III on tap right now. Barring a brief interception of time atm, it'll be watched sooner rather than later.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> DAMNIT STARBUCK... DON'T WISH ROCK-CENA II ON US!
> 
> We're NOT getting Rock-Cena II, and I'm pretty certain about that at this point. I've started saving for XXX so it can be my first live WWE show ever (where I'm from the WWE hasn't ran a house show in 5 years, and it SUCKED when it was here.... Cena vs Orton main event  ), and I want Austin-Punk BADLY (I'd say there's a .001 chance it happens obviously).
> 
> For this year ? We've ran all the possibilities into the ground by now. We won't know really until the Rumble is over how things will materialize and the speculation is really tearing me apart. My last minute instincts say and want Rock-Brock & Punk-Taker. If BORK isn't at XXX, I'm going to fucking RAGE.


Same I've already started saving for XXX, as soon as I got back from wm28 I started because I'm pretty certain we are getting cena/taker or Austin/punk, and it damn near costs 2 thousand bucks just for flights from Australia :cuss: hoping to get close to ringside seats for dat atmosphere :cena2 

This year is tearing me up for what will be on the card, they have so much talent however I don't trust them to deliver an outstanding card. Brock/ rock and punk/taker would appeal to me though. 

Who do u see cena facing then at 29?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I did a review for TRIPS-HBK HIAC earlier this year THANK GOD .... Still going to rewatch it and update the review, but I'm not writing an entirely new review for a match I've seen like 86439 times and reviewed like 4 times.

Just realized something ; SEVEN HBK-Trips matches left to watch.... A combined time of ONE HUNDRED AND NINE MINUTES which equals THREE HOURS AND ELEVEN MINUTES. FOR SEVEN MATCHES. WHAT. THE. FUCK. Why do I see myself shitting all over this series as it comes along ? :lol

Watching LOD vs Money Inc @ SS 92 now. Why does WWE love this match so much ? It's one of the weaker ones on this disc for sure.

EDIT: @SMIG , I don't trust WWE to take the talent and put it together either sadly. I THINK they won't fuck it up, my projected card ATM ;

(Title vs Streak) CM Punk vs The Undertaker
Rock vs Brock
Some sort of three way or 4 man for the WHC
Cena vs .... Ryback ? Bryan ?

Don't think Trips performs this year. Not without the hair


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c you'll realize a lot of their matches went an unneeded amount of time. There are exceptions to the rule. Summerslam 2002 & final RAW of 2003. All the rest went too long or were pretty underwhelming as a whole. I don't mind the Hell in a Cell, tbhayley. It's LONG as hell. I thought it accomplished what it set out to do. I could have only done with it going 30 instead of 47. Since they were intent on letting it go for a lengthy duration.

Oh, Taboo Tuesday works. 14 minutes and really good story. Only, that was a result of an injury. Whatever helps I suppose.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The two TV matches I've watched today (I don't count 97 as a match, but I reviewed it anyways ) from the two were pretty good. Nothing classic, but nice matches nonetheless. You'll see in my reviews why I believe the TV matches would be the favorites for people who look for the DEPTH in matches that they can't find in the other HHH-HBK matches.

Punk-Cena is one of my favorite series's of matches EVER. The SSOTY 09 tournament match REALLY pissed me off though. We got Taker-Orton on the same night and it was short and bad as well. As well as Cena-Orton #5368 that also SUCKED BALLS. The 2009 Slammy's ; worst show ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I already reviewed it. I could have been VERY harsh on it, but I give it my two cents and moved on. If the Punk vs Cena series didn't grow following that then my rant would have been severe.

Having a hard time piecing together any Michaels vs Game matches that were prior to 2002 sans the '97 European championship "match".


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They had one on Raw in 1996 during Shawn's 96 Bulldog feud. Hunter's best match up to that point for SURE , but it seriously wasn't anything ground-breaking, just your typical great TV main event that was better than most TV main events we were getting at the time.

THE L.O.D. DVD IS OVER !     Not going to go in depth disc by disc for this one, since I'm SO uninspired to talk about this one. I'll just give my star ratings and write a few paragraphs honestly , fuck the Road Warriors :lol

Up next : HBK vs Jericho JD 08 , DX vs Legacy SS 09, HBK vs Kane RAW 10, HBK vs Taker WM XXVI (Fun to see if it still holds up as a top 10 WWF/WWE match EVER for me still, even though I saw it like 5-6 months ago, I've seen a TON of shit since then so it's be nice to compare, also gotta see if HBK-Jericho and DX-Legacy hold up @ ****)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lost on me. I bet it was worth a look. I always get a kick out of Hunter during that time.

Never seen Michaels vs Jericho from Judgment Day 2008 yet. The only match of theirs that has evaded me. I've seen Triple H vs Orton from that show. What the hell is wrong with me?

Oh, and you're making me never want to own the Road Warriors set, haha. Although I'm sure I might get more of a kick out of it. I'm a fan.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Jesus dat HHH-HBK HIAC....crazy. I never believed a cell match could be 45 minutes. 



The only matches I really liked were the SS 02, Armageddon 02 3 stages of hell and LMS RR 03. The rest were too much for me. So many of them I don't even remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Give Taboo Tuesday 2004 a watch. It rapes 3 Stages of Hell & Last Man Standing.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> .
> 
> EDIT: @SMIG , I don't trust WWE to take the talent and put it together either sadly. I THINK they won't fuck it up, my projected card ATM ;
> 
> ...


I wouldn't mind that card, just hoping they don't screw up 30 it sounds like most of us here intend on going to it (Y)

Cena vs Bryan :yes

I'm thinking Ziggler/Sheamus/Orton at 29, or Dolph cashing in at 29 after Sheamus/Orton 

God I adore HBK vs Y2J one of my favourite matches ever, such good storytelling in the match. 
Definite 4 star affair for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H vs Randy Orton @ JD 08 AKA The match that's not really bad but it's the most boring fucking thing you'll ever watch in your life ? .... Yeah you don't lose much by NOT seeing that match. I'll letcha know whether HBK-Y2J holds up though. BUT FOR NOW, HERE'S THIS ;

*Best in the North Pole 5 Second Review ; The Road Warriors (life and Death of the Most Popular Tag Team in History*

Since this is a five second review , I'll give you some quick hit thoughts about the doc ; pretty decent. No complaints here, as they spend a huge amount of time focusing on LOD PRE-wrestling such as the gym and bouncing and whatnot. For a fitness freak like myself it's fine but for your causal fan it probably sucks. As a WRESTLING doc it's not on par with some of the better features (or even above average), but if you're looking to pass some time away and you need something to watch you should check it out. Animal seems to put himself over alot though, I don't know why I get that vibe from him, but I do for some reason. If I were to slap a quick rating on this I'd give the doc.....

*5.75/10*

_Matches_

The Road Warriors vs Joe Young & Randy Barber (NWA 83) : *Squash*

The Road Warriors vs Arn Anderson & Paul Jones (NWA 83) : *Squash*

The Road Warriors vs The Briscoes (NWA 83) : *** ½*

The Road Warriors vs Mike Jackson & Tracy Stone (NWA 83) : *SQUASH*

The Road Warriors vs Baron Von Raschke & The Crusher (AWA 84) : *** ¼*

The Road Warriors vs Larry & Curt Hennig (AWA 85) : *** ¼*

The Road Warriors vs The Fabulous Freebirds (AWA Superclash 85) : *****

The Road Warriors vs Ronnie Garvin & Magnum T.A (NWA Crockett Cup 86) : *** ¾*

The Road Warriors vs Ivan & Nikita Koloff (Russian Chain Match; GAB 85) : ****

The Road Warriors vs The Midnight Express (Scaffold Match ; Starrcade 86) : *1/2**

The Road Warriors vs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (Starrcade 1987) : **** ¼*

The Road Warriors vs The Midnight Express (NWA 88) : **** 

The Road Warriors vs Demolition (Wrestling Challenge 91) : ** 3/4*

The Road Warriors vs The Hart Foundation (Wrestlefest 91) : **** ¼*

The Road Warriors vs Hulk Hogan & Tenryu (Japan 91) : **** ¾*

The Road Warriors vs The Nasty Boys (Summerslam 91) : *** 1/4*

The Road Warriors vs Money Inc (Summerslam 92) : ****

The Road Warriors vs Sting & Lex Luger (Superbrawl 96) : ****

The Road Warriors vs The Goddwins (RAW 1997) : ** 3/4*

As you can see, these are not The Steiner's we're dealing with here in terms of match quality. The match listing is PRETTY bad for a WWE Home Video release, and what's hilarious is that I probably overrated a ton of these matches due to just being finished with the WORST 3 disc match listing in WWE history (DVD that shall and will never be named). This match listing, while BAD, isn't HORRIBLE because of a few reasons ; there are a number of fun Road Warrior squashes here that are entertaining to see because of the horrified looks on the jobbers faces, the matches are all relatively short with none clocking in at more than 15 minutes I believe, and the matches that ARE rateable are usually below average-decentish matches.

We do however get 3 matches you should check out between ***-*** 1/4 , and the show stealer in the Hogan/Tenryu match. AWESOME, AWESOME shit right there and probably the best normal tag LOD match there is honestly. That's the only required viewing from this DVD ; the Japan tag with Hogan and Tenryu. Everything else you can skip, because there isn't anything memorable besides that whatsoever. It's LOD, the HOGAN of tag teams, what should you expect other than formula based matches that aren't that great. This is more or less a showcase of a TON of tag teams from the 80s and 90s (Briscoes, Harts, Nasties, Demolition, Arn & Tully, etc) in potentially each team's worst match ever :lol

On a final note , only BUY this DVD if you're a Road Warriors fan or you don't care about match quality at all and love Hogan/Warrior-ish guys. If you're bored, check out the doc, and you SHOULD check out the Japan tag if you're a fan of tag team wrestling. If you don't like tag team wrestling, the obvious answer would be to stay away from the DVD. The Documentary passes, but the match listing brings this down to a slight fail for me.

*4.75/10*

PS: The Scaffold Match was the worst idea for anything in professional wrestling history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First match to stick out was vs Hogan & TENRYU. :mark:

Holy crap I'll pay money to own that.

Glad to see you liked the Starrcade '87 match vs Horseman. I'm at ***1/2. Creative finish. Trolled those Chicago fans so hard, haha.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Rockers Vs Brainbusters matches:*

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvtz6e_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-12-10-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu017_rockers-vs-brainbusters-spectrum-12-18-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu109_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-1-13-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu256_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-1-23-89-audio-issues_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu328_rockers-vs-brainbusters-la-sports-arena-1-29-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu3b4_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-2-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu43q_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-3-11-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu4mc_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu56g_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu5ve_rockers-vs-brainbusters-prime-time-wrestling-3-27-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu69j_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-11-25-89_sport


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AWESOME :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What's weird is that I'm not normally into Japanese Wrestling AT ALL , but I LOVE seeing japanese guys mix it up with the big WWE/WCW stars. The exception to this is of course Sting/Muta, as I'm not the biggest fan of their series at all.... Because Muta SUCKS of course 

Muta's finest hour was on Power Hour against ARN. That match was fucking BO$$.

I don't know WHAT the hell is wrong with me today, but I decided to forgo the HBK DVD until maybe tomorrow , in lieu of watching the LOW one disc tonight. WHY I give up the opportunity to watch AWESOME wrestling in order to watch SHITTY wrestling blows my fucking mind, but I love doing it for some reason. It's probably because I'm in the city, and when I'm at home my attention span sucks way too much to watch anything I'm uninterested in. The "You Know What" DVD doesn't count ; it's so bad that it's good that it's bad. WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THAT ONE (just didn't wanna say "so bad it's good" because that's almost giving a compliment to the piece of fucking trash). If Savage-DDP wasn't on it it would have gotten .5/10 just because the DOC was MEH.

THREE HOURS OF MEDIOCRE JERRY LAWLER & JUNK YARD DOG MATCHES HERE I COME !


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Get into Puro please. It's the best thing that isn't old school southern style rasslin.

What Lawler matches made it? He's been boss his entire career so I can't imagine much of his matches being mediocre.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need to see that Tenryu/Hogan tag. TENRYU is the great thing from Japan ever. People, technology... everything. He's the pinnacle of the Japanese race and culture.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHAT FANTASTIC LAWLER MATCHES SHALL I BE WATCHING ? Why only the FINEST Lawler matches around such as :

- his classic 1996 bout vs Marty Gardner
- his show-stealing main event performance with Roddy Piper @ KOTR 94
- Two of his BREATHTAKING PPV matches w/ BRET
- A FANTASTIC Wrestling Challenge match against Owen
- A .... Yeah the joke has worn out. The only interesting match is an 89 AWA tag w/ Jimmy Valiant vs Kerry Von Erich & Michael Hayes... WAIT... They tag teamed ?

This DVD has "YOU KNOW WHAT" type of potential, even for a one disc. I want to see does it get any worse than.... THAT OTHER DVD THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho judgment day 2008*

First off the bat this match is storytelling 101, at backlash shawn faked an injured knee to win his match against Batista, and the weeks leading up to this match Jericho called him the biggest actor in sports entertainment history. Until Jericho and shawn team up and shawn still sells that he has a knee injury, in which Jericho finally admits he was wrong only for shawn to super kick him and tell him he's not hurt. 

This was such a unique feud as shawn was acting as the heel, and Jericho the babyface however the roles where reversed. This match was still at the time a babyface vs babyface contest. At the start I love how Jericho is still so adamant that shawn has a knee injury so he goes after it, some great counter wrestling here. Shawn gives Jericho a huge slap to the face and hides in the corner seriously how is he not the heel, that's how amazing this feud was. Jericho finally leaves his attack on the leg of shawn and with a desperation move he gets his knees to shawns rib. He then attacks the rib section of Shawn, which makes sense at wm24 shawn destroyed his ribs against flair. Abdominal stretch applied by Jericho, everything attacking the rib area of shawn. Kudos to shawn he really sold the ribs perfectly. Cool spot with shawn on the outside and Jericho attempt his spring board shoulder block, only to get hit with the super kick. 

Shawn rolls him back in the ring and tunes up the band, only for Jericho to continually stay down as did shawn at backlash amazing storytelling. Shawn walks over right into the code breaker 1,2..... Kick out wow. Jericho then with hard shots to the ribs of shawn but gets caught in a desperation crossface, but finally reaches the ropes. Jericho goes for a lionsault but shawn blocks, then Jericho counters with the walls but then shawn counters with a roll up for the win. 

In 15 minutes they told an unbelievably story, this is one of my favourite matches ever from my 2 favourites superstars of all time. I may be the biggest mark for this match in the world, but I think it's amazing I'm such a sucker for great storytelling. If you haven't seen this match, you don't know what your missing but I recommend you go back and watch the promo before this match so you fully understand how great the story of this match really is.

***** 1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big fan of that JD match between HBK and Jericho. Far better that everything else they did that year imo (a hugely overrated feud and series imo too).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked the PPV bouts vs Bret. vs Owen could be fun given how much time it got. lol @ the Piper match. BAD.

Von Erichs & Freebirds were friends before the wars for a brief stint. Although, that match is from '89. So in AWA I guess things were "patched" up in kayfabe or AWA refused to acknowledge it. OR it could be strange bedfellows. I don't know. I apologize for my lack of details on the AWA. Wasn't exactly my favorite promotion except for Bockwinkel matches & Midnight Rockers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Great Review SMIG! 

That holds significance to me because my LOW DVD is NOT working whatsoever. I think it's God trying to reign down some of his everlasting love upon me. Or Satan is trying to tempt me into watching some GOOD wrestling , diverting me away from God's original intentions of watching me suffer through shitty JYD matches for hours. Whatever, this goes to the back of the "To WATCH" pile and I'll try it out in a week or two. That means that starting tomorrow will be the beginning of a DVD I've owned since the day it came out and haven't even looked at it since (still mint) ; ECW Unreleased VOL 1..... Yay ?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> Big fan of that JD match between HBK and Jericho. Far better that everything else they did that year imo (a hugely overrated feud and series imo too).


I don't totally agree with you on that its an overrated feud, however I do believe all their other matches such as the unsanctioned and ladder match are overrated .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well hell yes. You just made me even more excited to watch HBK's Superstar Collection disc. BUT, still need to finish this SmackDown set. Thank god the 3rd disc has gotten better...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What SD set you watching?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best of 2009-2010. Been pretty damn average in all honesty until I hit McIntyre/Christian. Then it's been a lot of good stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH THAT IS JUST THE WORST FEELING EVER.

You're about halfway through a 3 disc and something else comes up that you REALLY, REALLY wanna watch, but since you're trying to review these things and actually WATCH them, you have to stick to whatever mediocre thing you're currently reviewing and get that finished first. The absolute WORST.

Can't stand DVDs that aren't linear. Take "Falls Count Anywhere" ; matches on there from all different kinds of companies and different stips and such, so unorganized and uninspired that although the matches may be good ; I just can't get invested. Just like the "Top 50" DVDs. Too random and not linear enough for my liking. At least the ... "DVD about that faction from WCW" was linear (HORRIBLE, but linear). I couldn't wait to finish the Top 50 finishers, when I was only one match in :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I LOVE that set, got the Bluray. Plenty of good stuff on it. Big 8 man tag is fun, Undertaker/Punk 09 is great, Undertaker/Mysterio is a ton of fun, 10 man tag is fun, Swagger/Jericho/Edge is good, Punk/Mysterio is great, Hardy/McIntyre is good (or awesome, I forget which one made the set exactly), Christian/McIntyre is awesome, Kaval/McIntyre is a fun squash, and Undertaker/Punk '10 is :mark:. 

Then the BR extras include Rey/HBK and BOD/JeriShow, and of course the promos throughout the set include things like Punk signing happy birthday to Rey's daughter in one of the most awesomely creepy things ever, and some good stuff from Kane during the whole Undertaker angle.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best In The North Pole said:


> T(96,97,06... Well I own 97 but it isn't essential that I watch it on disc anyways). About a good 300-350 word review for each one that sums up my feelings on the match.


I really hope I'm reading this right that you wrote 300+ words on the Christmas 97 match.

I've done approximately nothing for this yet. I put Rey/Punk from Armageddon 08 on USB to see if it works on the DVD player (it does).



BigCalWhoLovesChristmasFOREVER said:


> *Rockers Vs Brainbusters matches:*


Wow. Awesome. Couple of their matches I've never seen.




Best In The North Pole said:


> THREE HOURS OF *MEDIOCRE JERRY LAWLER *& JUNK YARD DOG MATCHES HERE I COME !



Oxymoron.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I actually disagreed with half of that.  Taker/Punk '09 was predictable and average, Punk/Mysterio wasn't much of anything, & Hardy/McIntyre was incredibly frustrating and struggled to keep my attnetion. Everything else you mentioned I can stick with. LOVED Kane's promo and Punk's Happy Birthday song. At this point, my current Match of the Disc is Rey/Swagger.

I have this problem with not being able to watch just one match from a set. I in turn force myself to watch the entire thing from start to finish. No clue why.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dislike Rey/Swagger . Swagger and Del Rio are probably the only 2 guys to have a series of matches with Rey and never have a good match with him.

Still need a series of matches to review . I didn't want to do something I'd already seen, but I guess I have no other choice. Plenty of series I've seen but not actually reviewed...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When I start something I HAVE to finish it (always watch in a linear fashion). Top 50 Finishers took me like .... two weeks and like 12 different sitting to get through (the matches) because they were just all over the place. That's why Superstar COMPS >>>>> random sets. I don't have OCD I swear :lol

Fuck, suppose I'll go down to the Subway here and grab myself some food (Subway is next door THANK GOD) before my watching of some goooood HBK.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> OH THAT IS JUST THE WORST FEELING EVER.
> 
> You're about halfway through a 3 disc and something else comes up that you REALLY, REALLY wanna watch, but since you're trying to review these things and actually WATCH them, you have to stick to whatever mediocre thing you're currently reviewing and get that finished first. The absolute WORST.
> 
> *Can't stand DVDs that aren't linear. Take "Falls Count Anywhere" ; matches on there from all different kinds of companies and different stips and such, so unorganized and uninspired that although the matches may be good ; I just can't get invested.* Just like the "Top 50" DVDs. Too random and not linear enough for my liking. At least the ... "DVD about that faction from WCW" was linear (HORRIBLE, but linear). I couldn't wait to finish the Top 50 finishers, when I was only one match in :lol


I agree. I can't deal with DVDs that are all over the place.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

How was Batista & Randy Orton superstar sets?

I don't have them yet, and I'm interested in getting them.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Started watching my hunter/Foley match series damn I'm loving there 1997 series.
So how are we posting our reviews, all at once or just one at a time then a revision of them all at the end? 
Because I could have my first 3 match reviews up pretty soon.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I actually don't mind sets that are all over the place. For instance, Wrestling's Highest Flyers fucking OWNS. I like that they skipped around from company to company, era to era, wrestler to wrestler. Kept things fresh and you could compare the styles.

What I do hate are sets that just feature a bunch of random fucking multi man matches for the sake of getting everyone you can on one dvd.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

jonoaries said:


> How was Batista & Randy Orton superstar sets?
> 
> I don't have them yet, and I'm interested in getting them.


I'd pass on the Batista set unless you're a big fan. I'm not.  The best matches on there (HIAC vs. Trips, vs. Eddie, & vs. Taker) can be found elsewhere and there isn't really that much else that stands out.

Orton's set has an awful documentary imo but the match listing more than makes up for it. A lot of repeats, yes, but they're essential and classic repeats. Plus I love his matches with RVD, Sheamus, Taker, & Michaels. Get the blu ray if you can.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'd pass on the Batista set unless you're a big fan. I'm not.  The best matches on there (HIAC vs. Trips, vs. Eddie, & vs. Taker) can be found elsewhere and there isn't really that much else that stands out.
> 
> Orton's set has an awful documentary imo but the match listing more than makes up for it. A lot of repeats, yes, but they're essential and classic repeats. Plus I love his matches with RVD, Sheamus, Taker, & Michaels. Get the blu ray if you can.


Usually I run out and buy superstar sets but I'm not a big fan of Batista (and I have all/most of the matches so I would be buying for the documentary). I'm more of a fan of Randy but I feel like I have a lot of his matches too.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Which series of matches are still remaining? I'm up for watching pretty much anything, prefereably non-WWECW or Superstars and not a main event feud. Maybe Kofi/Orton, Kennedy/Taker, Edge/Matt, Jeff/Umaga, Dolph/Rey, Dolph/Kofi, Edge/Angle, Rey/Cody, or Regal/Punk? Any suggestions or other good ideas? I haven't watched much of any of the ones I listed.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Taker/Kennedy sounds good brah. Always liked their matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Calling' it for Sunday ; Sheamus-Show is MOTN by a considerable margin. Cena-Ziggler sounds like an awesome match, but a LADDER match between the two ? Ew...

Once I get off the phone with my girlfriend I'm gonna watch DAT HBK-Jericho match, and then DAT DX-Legacy match, and then DAT .... Kane match ? Yeaaahhhh...... THEN IT'S DAT WM XXVI MAIN EVENT AND A REVIEW BEING DROPPED.

Then I'm homebound tomorrow to watch some more wrasslin'. Life is made. :cena2


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Enjoy that awesomeness that is hbk/y2j

Loving all these hunter/foley matches should have my first few matches of their series up soon, can't wait for their street fight :hhh 

Should by Christmas time have also my first big project of top 50 ppv matches of the 90's done and ready for a countdown, so tough though ordering the top 10.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm going to do the Angle/HBK series. This was always one of my favorite feuds of the 2000s. I haven't seen any of the matches in quite some time, though. Are you guys doing just single matches between the two wrestlers in your rivalry, or are you including triple threat matches they have been in, too? I'm definitely going to review Wrestlemania 21, Vengeance, Ironman Match, and their final one on one match on the 1/16/06 Raw. Just trying to figure out if I should do the Taboo Tuesday triple threat match of Angle vs HBK vs Cena. I know it's just up to us ourselves as this is just for fun, but I was curious to what some of you guys were going to do with triple threats? (I know, stupid question, but I'm just curious)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

mk92071 said:


> Which series of matches are still remaining? I'm up for watching pretty much anything, prefereably non-WWECW or Superstars and not a main event feud. Maybe Kofi/Orton, Kennedy/Taker, *Edge/Matt*, *Jeff/Umaga*, *Dolph/Rey*, Dolph/Kofi, *Edge/Angle*, Rey/Cody, or Regal/Punk? Any suggestions or other good ideas? I haven't watched much of any of the ones I listed.


Any of the ones I bolded are my suggestions. Avoid the Kofi matches. I don't think Punk vs Regal had many lengthy bouts. Only one. Tis a shame.



FuckChristmas said:


> Dislike Rey/Swagger . Swagger and Del Rio are probably the only 2 guys to have a series of matches with Rey and never have a good match with him.


MONEY IN THE BANK 2010 BEGS TO DIFFER


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

JOY.

Watched Razor Ramon vs HBK from wrestlemania 10. Will review it another time, but **** 1/2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*****.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

**** 1/2


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm going to take Jeff/Umaga. Looks like they have 11 matches. Mostly TV matches so it should be easy to burn through. I only remember seeing their last match (FCA at ONS 08) so this should be interesting. Will do some write ups.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> MONEY IN THE BANK 2010 BEGS TO DIFFER


No it doesn't.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> *****.


I'll watch it again, but from memory I liked the Summerslam one better. I prefer WM10 for the result, but match-wise I think Summerslam is better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not an uncommon argument. I'm more on the WrestleMania X side.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> I'll watch it again, but from memory I liked the Summerslam one better. I prefer WM10 for the result, but match-wise I think Summerslam is better.


I too think SS match is better. Might actually prefer the house show ladder match that's available out there to watch to WM 10.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Guys, anything regarding my 1:12? I know it might be a dumb question, but was just curious if you're including triple threats or not?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Wm10- *******
Summerslam- ***** 1/2*
(Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching the HBK/Y2J match now. The SLAP by Michaels to Jericho and the subsequent little smirk on Shawn's face was AMAZING. The best facial expression I've seen in a while... OHHHH ARM WORKKK I'm loving this.

This match so far = <3

Both HBK/Razor matches are ***** 1/2* to me. Benoit/Jericho is the GOAT ladder match the last time I checked.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Guys, anything regarding my 1:12? I know it might be a dumb question, but was just curious if you're including triple threats or not?


Yeah include them.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm not quite getting the ***** for it. On first watch its **** 1/2 for me.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Watching the HBK/Y2J match now. The SLAP by Michaels to Jericho and the subsequent little smirk on Shawn's face was AMAZING. The best facial expression I've seen in a while... OHHHH ARM WORKKK I'm loving this.
> 
> This match so far = <3


:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I put the whole "first time ever on mainstream tv" significance by the WrestleMania one. All of it was so new, fresh, and innovative.

And yes, Jericho vs Benoit ladder is better than both. IMO


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH's intro to the DX-Legacy match ;

"YOU GIRLS WANT A WAR? YOU GOT A WAR!" .... He says it with such flawless delivery that it makes me markout every fucking time. The DEAD serious look on his face makes me go absolutely insane with hilarity.

Had this match @ ****** on last watch (the best DX tag ever BTW), let's see how this holds up shall we (BP and HIAC 09 are extremely overrated IMO) ?


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Watched the first Hardy/Umaga match but can't find their Raw December 11, 2006 match for the life of me. Where do you guys search? I've used Youtube/Dailymotion/Bing Video Searches and didn't find anything. Any suggestions on what to do or have any links? Searching methods?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Is that the match for the IC title?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Breaking Point does it for me, BITNP. Summerslam tag is really good too. 

HIAC...I'll pass.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Nope. Its in the build up to Umaga/Cena


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> HHH's intro to the DX-Legacy match ;
> 
> "YOU GIRLS WANT A WAR? YOU GOT A WAR!" .... He says it with such flawless delivery that it makes me markout every fucking time. The DEAD serious look on his face makes me go absolutely insane with hilarity.
> 
> Had this match @ ****** on last watch (the best DX tag ever BTW), let's see how this holds up shall we (BP and HIAC 09 are extremely overrated IMO) ?


I enjoyed both their SS and BP matches, but the HIAC is incredibly overrated. 

Breaking Point is just a fun brawl, so funny when they are trying to talk, and all they get is you screwed bret chants, they just can't let it go :hhh


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I found their IC title match, extreme rules match and steel cage match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jeff vs Umaga in the cage = (Y)

Great American Bash 2007 is probably my favorite of their series.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> I found their IC title match, extreme rules match and steel cage match.


Thats all I could find too. Might have to torrent the episode or something. Eh I'll worry about it tomorrow. Here's the review for their first match.

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - I - 12/8/06 Tribute to the Troops (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMp64VyoOQ)

So they are saying Umaga is undefeated at this point and he has an upcoming title shot, so I don't expect Hardy to pull out a win here. Jeff is the IC champ. They start off with Hardy trying to be agile but he eats a shoulder block. Jeff evades a couple of clotheslines and gets a forearm in. Jeff goes for a sunset flip but he can't get Umaga down. Umaga tries to butt drop him, but Hardy moves and drop kicks him. Another drop kick sending Umaga to the floor. Another drop kick, and he goes for a suicide dive. Umaga catches him and slams him into the turnbuckle. Hardy eats the steel steps and they go back to the ring. Big strike. Umaga hits a leg drop. Hardy gets kicked around a bit before a nerve hold is applied. Hardy starts to comeback but he gets smashed with a Samoan drop. Umaga is going up top. I don't recall ever seeing him do this before. Umaga goes for a splash, but Hardy moves. Hardy hits several strikes but can't take him off his feet until connecting with a Whisper in the Wind. Umaga throws him off during a cover attempt. Umaga reverse the Twist of fate. He goes for the Samoan Spike, but Hardy reverses to a Twist of Fate. Hardy goes up top for a swanton but Umaga gets his knees up. Umaga pummels Hardy before he hits a stink face. Signals for a Samoan spike and connects. And that's all she wrote. 

About a 6 minute match with a few good exchanges. The first couple minutes were action packed, but Umaga's offense really slowed it down. These guys seem to have good chemistry, and I think the series will get better. A few more minutes and so more nearfalls and this could've been in the *** territory. **1/2


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

mk92071 said:


> Watched the first Hardy/Umaga match but can't find their Raw December 11, 2006 match for the life of me. Where do you guys search? I've used Youtube/Dailymotion/Bing Video Searches and didn't find anything. Any suggestions on what to do or have any links? Searching methods?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

mk92071 said:


> Thats all I could find too. Might have to torrent the episode or something. Eh I'll worry about it tomorrow. Here's the review for their first match.
> 
> Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - I - 12/8/06 Tribute to the Troops (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMp64VyoOQ)
> 
> ...


The troops match was their first? Interesting place to plant seeds for a potential on/off 2 year feud.

Nice little review there. It's along the lines of how my format will be. Keep it up. I'll look forward to the rest. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't get me wrong ; I like all three matches. It's just that I see HIAC getting ****** all the time and I'm like WTFOMGLOLZ .... Just doesn't seem deserving of the RIDICULOUS praise it gets from some people. 

Then again, I'm the same person who has Ryback-Punk @ HIAC rated as a ***** and surprisingly pretty good match. Honestly believe it's Ryback's ceiling for the next..... Forever, but I liked the simple storytelling. The length just didn't bother it for me at all, as I'm a big fan of the Punk-Taker match from Breaking Point that's probably the shortest main event in modern WWE PPV history.

Anyways where was I..... DX vs Legacy.... HIAC is like a ***** to me too.... I LIKE the match, but it's not an overly amazing match. BP I have at **** 1/4* .... The shock of HOW Legacy beats DX in this one still blows my mind as at the end of the match Ted and Cody looked like future world champions... Ted will probably never wrestle on PPV again , while Cody is toiling in the tag division, GOOD CHOICES DX! :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I agree. It's not so much the rating that leaves me perplexed. It's when some claim it to be "really good". Don't see it. Granted I did come to take some bit of appreciation for when I watched it about a month ago. Still nothing noteworthy. **1/4 is my snowflake assessment. It's a bit above average. My first watch I loathed the bout. Part of that was due to me not being informed about the way it was worked. So when I was watching it I was like "WTF is going on?" Poorly worked bout, imo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Razor Ramon vs HBK (c) - _MSG house show 6/12/93_

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xegqds_razor-ramon-vs-shawn-michaels-ic-ti_sport#.UMgsYeTqmSp

The event starts off with a HBK promo, which I can barely hear. But it seems to get heat. Out comes Razor Ramon to a GREAT POP. HBK back on the mic with "I'm going to show you the real bad guy" with Razor throwing his pick in the eye of HBK. Razor works HBK on the inside by whipping HBK on the apron and kicking him up 3 times. He kicks him right out to the outside. HBK tries to do a sneak attack on Razor, but Razor is to quick for him. The action comes back to the inside, they tie up. HBK starts working him into the corner, it then comes to the middle as HBK tries to toss Razor, its then reversed into a CHOKESLAM to a big pop from the crowd. 1...2...near fall! Razor then quickly applies the abdominal stretch. HBK reverses, turns it into a lariot, which Razor reverses into a fallaway slam....again 1..2...near fall! Fast paced action! Razor starts to work the back of HBK by throwing him into each corner. Top rope clothesline by HBK onto Razor. Razor is dazed and falls to the outside. The action falls to the outside but not for long. Back inside and HBK with continious kicks to Razor's chest. The next few minutes have HBK applying a grapple hold with Razor layed out on a horizontal base...HBK using leverage by putting his legs on the ropes. Razor fighting out of it, only for HBK to apply more leverage. He fights it up to a vertical bases and throws HBK, both men are down. Razor then applies his SPINNING PUNCH COMBO to knock HBK down. Razor then hits the Razor's edge....1.....2....AND DIESEL BREAKS THE PIN by pulling HBK to the outside. HBK and diesel leave, and Razor Ramon wins by countout. Razor grabs the microphone :mark: and requests HBK to come back to the ring. HBK and diesel are on the outside and Razor spits on HBK, which sends HBK into a hissy fit. But thats all she wrote, HBK and Diesel leave...Razor Ramon left in the ring with a roar from the crowd.

A good solid house-show match. ** 3/4 - ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THAT Diesel saving Shawn's ass. Sound pretty legit. Gonna watch it soon, I promise. 

Need to get on with my project(s) atm. Movie watching has taken over my free time today.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I'm watching the Top 100 Raw Moments. Nice to see the staredown between Undertaker and HHH there... but at #100 behind Santino's fucking TEA PARTY? I'll never understand how WWE puts lists together .

:lmao #98 is Evolution turning on Orton, and of course they build to it by showing us Randy winning the belt. From nobody . I swear its like WWE go out of their way to include something Benoit had a big part in so they can NOT show him.

Damn, this thing is 3 and a half hours long. Then there are BR extras too. I don't know the full list or anything so I have no idea what's coming up. Hope its some GOOD shit so I can sit through the whole thing. And if Austin coming out on a Zamboni or Beer Truck is #1 I'm gonna fucking murder someone.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

About to start my NAITCH vs HAITCH series in a minute. Got all the matches apart from the Raw 06 one so I'm going to have to pass on that unless somebody else can find it for me. I looked on youtube and dailymotion and couldn't get it. I have the other 5 though. I'm aiming to watch them all today and hopefully have my reviews ready to go tomorrow or even later tonight if I'm lucky. I won't have the time otherwise lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can get that uploaded for ya in the next hour .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

FuckChristmas said:


> I can get that uploaded for ya in the next hour .




Thanks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

iPhones about to go dead on the way home, but I feel I gotta mention the HBK-KANE match on raw (Shawn's last raw match) as probably my favorite five minute match ever.... They manage to put together an efficient story, a tribute to Benoit and Angle , and storyline continuation with the undertaker. The perfect match for the DVD , and one of my favorite short matches ever. Not big on the STARZ scale, but an awesome, awesome contest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Triple H Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw Febuary 6th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv...r-wwe-raw-febuary-6th-2006_sport#.UMivmIOfGSo

Also, FUCK YOU WWE. The beer bath is NOT the greatest Raw moment ever. I personally wouldn't have it anywhere near my top 100, and frankly I'm fucking sick of you putting it on every DVD that remotely has to do with the 1990's. Aside from that retarded pick, the rest of the list is mostly really good. Order isn't the greatest, but there are far more great moments than shitty ones.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Milkamania is the greatest Raw moment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its definitely a more worthy contender for the #1 spot than the beer bath.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*SmackDown: The Best of 2009-2010 - Disc Three*

*Women's Championship - Handicap Match
*Beth Phoenix (c) vs. LayCool - DUD
_May 14_

Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk - ** 1/4
_May 14_

#1 Contender's 15 Man Battle Royal - ** 1/4
_June 4_

Matt Hardy vs. Drew McIntyre - **
_June 25_

Rey Mysterio & Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes & Jack Swagger - ** 3/4
_July 2_

Christian vs. Drew McIntyre - *** 1/4
_July 30_

*No DQ
*Rey Mysterio vs. Jack Swagger - *** 1/2
_July 30_

*Intercontinental Championship
*Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - **
_August 6_

Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio - ** 1/2
_August 20_

Drew McIntyre vs. Kaval - ** 3/4
_September 10_

The Undertaker vs. CM Punk - *** 1/2
_September 10_


*Overall Disc Score: 7/10*

- Gonna speed through this review cause it took me several nights to get through this disc. It's easily the best though. Women's match has an awful ending. Mysterio/Punk wasn't much of anything. Basic match with a non-finish for build to Over The Limit. REALLY wish they would've put their February match on here that everyone raves about. 

- I'm a huge mark for battle royals so I love the inclusion of one on any set. This one featured one of my pet peeves though. For a good 10 minutes nothing happened at all really, then it was time for rapid eliminations. Once Rey eliminated Chavo, it flowed well and got exciting. It was pretty obvious who was winning (hate when they bring that person out first or last) but Rey & Kane put together a really good one-on-one match in the end.

- McIntyre/Hardy was so damn frustrating. Drew dominated the entire match and it struggled to keep my attention. He hit big move after big move, just for another near fall. Then all of a sudden Hardy hits a twist of fate and that's it, after a match then went far too long to give us a finish like that. There was a really nice spot with the steps though. 

- Pretty obvious that the July 30th episode was fuckin awesome. First a great match from McIntyre/Christian. Brutal armwork from Drew and good selling from Christian. Then Rey/Swagger. Yeah, that match was all kinds of fun. It's not a *** 1/2 match, really isn't. I'm not even sure if a pinfall was ever attempted, but the match was so entertaining I don't even care. The brawling through the crowd and way out of the arena actually made sense because Swagger wanted to end Rey's career. Memorable spots, memorable finish, fun television for sure.

- Kofi/Ziggler had another really stupid ending, but Kofi's postmatch beatdown was awesome. Rey/Del Rio is significant because it's Del Rio's debut and he won clean with the armbar. Kaval/McIntyre was balls to the wall awesomeness for the time it got. Taker/Punk is the best match on the entire set. Really good, slower main event style match with a good story behind Taker's sluggishness and ring rust in his return from being in a "vegetative" state.

- I FUCKING LOVE DREW MCINTYRE'S THEME MUSIC.

- Everything on this disc in regard to the Taker/Kane feud was fantastic. Kane's promo after he won the World Title from Rey gave me goosebumps. Too bad their matches sucked in the coming months...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Overall Set Score: 6.5/10*

- There just isn't a whole lot of rewatch value on here in my eyes. There's just a small handful of matches I'd put at ***+ and then a lot of average stuff you could see on TV each and every week. There's a couple good segments & promos but not enough to warrant a purchase. It's not bad, but not great either.

*Best Matches on the Set*

1. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (_September 10, 2010_) *** 1/2
2. *No DQ: *Rey Mysterio vs. Jack Swagger (_July 30, 2010_) *** 1/2
3. Christian vs. Drew McIntyre (_July 30, 2010_) *** 1/4
4. *Intercontinental Championship - 2/3 Falls: *John Morrison (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler (_November 20, 2009_) ***
5. *World Heavyweight Championship: *Jack Swagger (c) vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho (_April 16, 2010_) ***​


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Punk SD 2010- ****
Flair/HHH Raw 2/6/06- ***1/4

Agreed about the Austin beer bath being overrated.

Also, gonna get started on Taker/Brock. I'm off work today, so I may just go through all the matches in one sitting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Thanks Cal. Already watched and taken some notes for 02, 03 and Taboo Tuesday matches. Will probably watch Survivor Series later on and then the next 2 are just TV matches so they won't be long or anything. Holy fuck though. The similarities between the two of them are frightening so far lol. I mean in the sense that HHH emulates Flair with some of the things he does which I find rather cool. I'll save that for the reviews though


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

IT'S HIS MENTOR. OF COURSE HE EMULATES HIM 

Excited to read your write-up of their series. I need to get cracking on HBK/Taker. Three of the matches are like 30 minutes, though. FUCK.

Was the RR Casket match really only 10 minutes long?!?  Wonder if that was planned or they cut it short due to HBK fucking up his back.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been YEARS since I watched that casket match, but im sure it was more than 10mins long in total, thought it was over 20 tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They probably wanted to keep it short in order to make sure they got the stuff in with Kane at the end without the show going off the air first. HBK has said that he didn't have any problems with his back after it happened until the next day.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Been YEARS since I watched that casket match, but im sure it was more than 10mins long in total, thought it was over 20 tbh.


Yeah, I remember it being much longer, too. That's why I was confused.



FuckChristmas said:


> They probably wanted to keep it short in order to make sure they got the stuff in with Kane at the end without the show going off the air first. HBK has said that he didn't have any problems with his back after it happened until the next day.


That's what I thought, too. I remember him saying he didn't think anything was wrong until later. I don't remember A THING about the Ground Zero match. Should make this project fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Looking forward to whomever is doing Taker/Batista, really need to watch that whole series myself at some point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Looking forward to whomever is doing Taker/Batista, really need to watch that whole series myself at some point.


Yes you do. I did it a while back and the matches all ended up being better than I originally thought and I loved them all to begin with. Ignored the chairs match though .

Also, blanks came today, almost finished with your discs so they'll be posted tomorrow.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FuckChristmas said:


> Yes you do. I did it a while back and the matches all ended up being better than I originally thought and I loved them all to begin with. Ignored the chairs match though .
> 
> Also, blanks came today, almost finished with your discs so they'll be posted tomorrow.


Yeah mate, been itching to watch the series for ages now, I bought a Taker vs Batista DVD (think its Silvervision's best of Smackdown) that has three of their matches on there, I vaguely remember the Mania match but nothing else tbh, 

Was there major promos for the fued too like?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nothing really in the way of promos that you need to see. Undertaker rarely spoke, and Batista wasn't very good when he did .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah lol, fire and ice.

I need to also watch the tag matches with them vs Cena/HBK (I think), No Way Out 2007 and a Raw rematch, I was going to get the NWO ppv but that tag match seemed the only good thing on it lol so I passed, think I have it on a SV best of Raw Dvd though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah lol NWO isn't exactly great outside of the awesome tag main event. Raw rematch isn't anything special, only short.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FuckChristmas said:


> No it doesn't.


You seen Rey/Swagger 6/11/10? Or Rey/Del Rio 1/7/11?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seen all the Rey/Swagger matches. Might have skipped the Del Rio match. He's so dull I just don't care about his matches .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Likewise.

Del Rio is "good" in the ring when it comes to cranking out consistently good matches, but I find he's a horrible character, and his ability to drain the life out of whatever he's involved in blows my mind completely, as I don't remember anybody else I've ever seen in my life that wasn't a BAD worker but managed to be the least interesting man in the world.

Has there ever been a match where you said "OH MY GOD, DEL RIO'S PERFORMANCE WAS AWESOME!" ... Not in my lifetime. 

He's like Barrett, except with actual in-ring talent :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Del Rio's matches: Arm work, more arm work, a little more arm work... walk into finisher from opponent and lose .

Or: Face jobber, arm work, Arm Bar for win. Nobody gives a fuck though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Honestly, if you've seen one Del Rio match, you've seen them all.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Likewise.
> 
> Del Rio is "good" in the ring when it comes to cranking out consistently good matches, but I find he's a horrible character, and his ability to drain the life out of whatever he's involved in blows my mind completely, as I don't remember anybody else I've ever seen in my life that wasn't a BAD worker but managed to be the least interesting man in the world.
> 
> ...


And Barrett's like Del Rio, but with actual mic skills, presence, some charisma, and can be interesting in a main event storyline when he's allowed to work the mic (Nexus). 

Frankly, Del Rio's probably my least favorite wrestler on the roster. Can't find anything remotely interesting about the guy, and his matches are so repetitive that even his in ring work, his strongest asset by a country mile over everything else (which is all shit) has suffered in my eyes over time. His best match was probably with Punk at Survivor Series last year, and that I put at ***3/4. With Del Rio, I just don't fucking know how he ever got the WWE Title. 

Between him and Sheamus in 09, how did WWE manage to pick those two out of guys for years to be the ones to be super-pushed instead of MVP, Barrett (though he did have the Nexus run, but it still amounted to nothing), Bryan, and more? I'd even take Kennedy over them. In fairness to Sheamus, he has gotten better though since then (but still one of the most boring guys on the roster), but Del Rio is as stale as when he first came in... actually he was probably slightly more interesting when he first came in due to the fact he was new to WWE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Barrett has mic skills? Shame he hasn't cut a promo worth a damn since the Nexus days 8*D. In fact, he hasn't done anything worth a damn since the Nexus days .

Any combination of Barrett/Orton/Del Rio/Sheamus should NEVER happen again imo. All of them just bore the absolute shit out of me when they are together. Sheamus is probably the only guy who I actually like though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FuckChristmas said:


> Barrett has mic skills? Shame he hasn't cut a promo worth a damn since the Nexus days 8*D. In fact, he hasn't done anything worth a damn since the Nexus days .


Oh absolutely he does, and it's why Nexus worked as well as it could with him as the leader. Problem is, he hasn't been given the mic for more than 3 minutes since his Nexus days. His first Smackdown promo in 2011 was great though right after he was removed from Nexus. Also his little promo during the HHH walk-out segment, despite being written to be very flawed for an easy HHH counter argument, was still excellently delivered and he got plenty of heat from it despite doing nothing for months.

WWE just love shitting on Barrett though and giving him nothing to do. I mean hey, let's just have him say he's going to not fight jobbers anymore and then put him against them for several more weeks before finally having him face Sheamus several times, lose to him, and then start losing more than half his matches again (oh, and we'll give him a couple of wins over Orton, whom by that point will have lost to every heel and their mother).

Oh, and worst of all in his time in WWE, he was sacrificed to Ezekeil Jackson who... well... who the fuck knows who Ezekeil Jackson is anymore?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I second that notion(that those four need to stay the fuck away from one another), but no doubt we see Sheamus/Barrett , Orton/Barrett, Orton/Del Rio, and Sheamus/Del Rio atleast 538 more times over the next year. I don't understand why they book these matches over and over again... They're REALLY on cruise control until The Road to Wrestlemania, in which neither of those four men will probably do anything (ESPECIALLY not Barrett or Del Rio).

WWE has a fetish for Del Rio for some reason. I don`t know HOW he gets all of these random title shots and big time matches when he loses like 90 percent of big-time PPV matches/TV matches he competes in. HE was the catalyst in my eyes that fucked up the momentum with "The Summer of Punk". WHY he pinned Punk @ Hiac 11 blows my mind and made me pissed with the E for a few months afterwards.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So, does anyone have a count on the number of Barrett/Orton matches? Has it beaten the number of Orton/HHH matches? Hm...

Barrett/Orton:
BR2010
SVS2010
Raw after SVS 2010
SD 2011 (1)
SD 2011 (2) (I think)
TLC 2011
SD 2012 (1)
SD 2012 (2)
Raw 2012 (1)
SD 2012 (2)

10 matches I count.

Orton/HHH:

Unforgiven 04
Raw 2005
RR 2005
NM 2007 (1)
NM 2007 (2)
Raw 2008
JD 2008 
ONS 2008
WM25
Bash 2009
Raw 2010

11...

I'm sure I'm missing one or two or a few from either both or one of them, but Barrett/Orton is catching up! And shows no signs of slowing down! Unfortunately.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Barrett and Orton have probably had 50 matches together by now.



The Sandrone said:


> His best match was probably with Punk at Survivor Series last year, and that I put at ***3/4.


I don't get the love for this match. Del Rio and Punk have absolutely no chemistry IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I seem to remember reports around the time Del Rio won the title that he only got it because they were touring Mexico at the time and wanting him as champ to try and draw more money. Nothing like killing the hottest thing the company has had in christ knows how many years...

And back to Wade Boring... didn't he job out to R-TRUTH on Raw this week? :lmao I hope they don't expect anyone to believe he can beat Kofi now. God, Kofi, Barrett and R-Truth are 3/4 of the main midcard scene atm. Urgh. And the other 1/4 (Antonio) is good in the ring but has a shit fucking gimmick.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't get the love for this match. Del Rio and Punk have absolutely no chemistry IMO.


For me personally, it does hold a special place since I was there live for it, and it was the start of Punk's epic title run! (Which I'm sure we'll disagree on  )

But I think it's a damn fine match itself, the crowd was hot, and they meshed well together. Can't think of any other Del Rio match that goes above *** though tbh, besides maybe one of the Sheamus matches and Edge/Del Rio (the latter of which I have at ***1/2, and it gets 1/2* from me for being Edge's last match).



> And back to Wade Boring... didn't he job out to R-TRUTH on Raw this week? I hope they don't expect anyone to believe he can beat Kofi now. God, Kofi, Barrett and R-Truth are 3/4 of the main midcard scene atm. Urgh. And the other 1/4 (Antonio) is good in the ring but has a shit fucking gimmick.


Jobbing to R-Truth.. I think that was the biggest facepalm I had for WWE in a long while. Barrett, who should be one of the more threatening heels on the roster can't even beat R-Truth. And people wonder why he gets no heat. He can't beat anyone that matters and now he can't beat R-Truth.

I'm becoming a fan of Cesaro. His promo on Raw though made me cringe and set me back a bit, but as usual he killed it in his match. Cesaro is just fun to watch in the ring and probably the first guy in a long time who's making me a fan solely on his wrestling. The man's a fucking beast too. Just needs a gimmick change and some improvement on the stick and he could be the top heel of the company in 2-3 years. Maybe even sooner.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have Punk-Del Rio from SS @ ******.

They had another match before the HIAC PPV in 2011 where Punk went over clean with just a simple kick to the head for the win. I loved it because of the element of surprise, I think we need more of that in wrestling tbh... have more matches on RAW and SMACKDOWN end with signature moves, it keeps things ALOT more interesting that way. Punk pinned Truth in the Chamber this year with the flying elbow as well.

Would it KILL a guy like Kofi to get pinned by Bryan's diving headbutt ? Seriosuly..


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Christian/Del Rio (Ladder) = ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also not a fan of Punk/Del Rio. Saw them at a live show... just after SS I think it was (maybe before... but I'm fairly certain Punk was champ. It was November anyway) and it was fun due to the more interactive antics and shit they can do off camera, but the in ring work wasn't anything special.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd argue that Punk's hottest streak of his career was hotter than just about 99.9 percent of every WWE superstars streak in history, in terms of match quality + promo quality + hype + overall interest from the fans , Punk's hottest streak > Cena/HHH/HBK/Orton (well, no contest there ) , etc.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Christian/Del Rio (Ladder) = ****


lol, I always forget about this match for some reason, despite the fact it's Christian's title win. Okay, that match is Del Rio's best match (at **** like you), followed by Punk/Del Rio.

Generally, I'm not a fan of Punk/Del Rio either and would struggle to rate any of their other one on one encounters at more than *** if even that, but SVS worked for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> I'd argue that Punk's hottest streak of his career was hotter than just about 99.9 percent of every WWE superstars streak in history, in terms of match quality + promo quality + hype + overall interest from the fans , Punk's hottest streak > Cena/HHH/HBK/Orton (well, no contest there ) , etc.


But it was only one month. Everything after SummerSlam was completely irrelevant.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

It's funny to me that the two hottest streaks of Punk (2009 and last year) both started in June, ended in August, and both ultimately put down (by storyline and/or matches) by Undertaker and HHH respectively. Though HHH in 2011 had Nash's help for the first half of it. Taker had to do it all by his lonesome. 

Fuck dem' old guys.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I were to argue, Punk's hot streak ended @ HIAC 2011 when he jobbed to Del Rio without any outside help for Del Rio (in a Cell Match0 , so essentially clean. After Summerslam he was still molten hot because everybody thought he was going to be involved in a COMPELLING storyline that got him back to the title scene, and the loss vs Trips didn't hurt him at all IMO, because it was all a part of the storyline.

When HIAC went off the air I was like "Yeah... They fucked him up" . I swear that this title reign is an APOLOGY from WWE to Punk for fucking up his momentum in order to get Del Rio heat and the HHH-Nash feud started. There's NO fault to Punk on that one.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I love Punk, but this run of his but completely and utterly stale in every sense of the word for MONTHS now. Alot of it is writing and booking, but that's what hurt other wrestlers run with the title as well. It all counts. And this has been a bad period for quite some time now..


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Funny thing is Del Rio ended up getting no heat. :lmao

I'd say his hot streak was up until the night after NOC in all truthfulness. When he apologized and then became your standard cut of the mold PG-era babyface... that's when Punk's hot streak was dead.

I'd say it was declining though from Summerslam to Night of Champions.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got Punk/Del Rio at ****. I like Del Rio's ring work and I thought the match had nice emotion and a good crowd.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If CM Punk/Paul Heyman weren't on RAW , it would be the worst wrestling show of all time right now. Dead serious when I say that too. Cue the "It's alweady the worst show ever!" rage unk2

Seriously. Take CM Punk off of these shows, and who the fuck else could they use to fill the time spent on him ? Orton ? Fuck no. MORE CENA ? Fuck no. Young Guys ? HA. YOUNG GUYS? Since when does WWE promote the up and comers ? MORE DEL RIO/BARRETT/KOFI/TRUTH/ALL OF THE OTHER SHITTY TALENT? No thanks. Punk gets a ton of TV time because he's the champion, the number 1A guy in the company, entering the undisputed biggest feud in the company and one of the most hyped matches ever.

Give every single person on the roster as much time as Punk on Raw, and tell me how it works out


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I love Punk, but this run of his but completely and utterly stale in every sense of the word for MONTHS now. Alot of it is writing and booking, but that's what hurt other wrestlers run with the title as well. It all counts. And this has been a bad period for quite some time now..


Working with Ryback for the last 3 months would kill anyone lol . Hopefully things pick up with the Rock feud.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Raw is at its worst right now. Punk is part of the reason to me but not the only one.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Best In The North Pole said:


> If CM Punk/Paul Heyman weren't on RAW , it would be the worst wrestling show of all time right now. Dead serious when I say that too. Cue the "It's alweady the worst show ever!" rage unk2
> 
> Seriously. Take CM Punk off of these shows, and who the fuck else could they use to fill the time spent on him ? Orton ? Fuck no. MORE CENA ? Fuck no. Young Guys ? HA. YOUNG GUYS? Since when does WWE promote the up and comers ? MORE DEL RIO/BARRETT/KOFI/TRUTH/ALL OF THE OTHER SHITTY TALENT? No thanks. Punk gets a ton of TV time because he's the champion, the number 1A guy in the company, entering the undisputed biggest feud in the company and one of the most hyped matches ever.
> 
> Give every single person on the roster as much time as Punk on Raw, and tell me how it works out


True, but just because he is the best of other AWFUL options doesn't mean he's better than some all-time greats..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk, Ziggler and occasionally AJ (yeah I said it) are pretty much the only things I give a fuck about on Raw these days. Oh and Show/Sheamus feud that despite being for the WHC which is technically "Smackdown's title" still gets more exposure on Raw lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> Punk, Ziggler and occasionally AJ (yeah I said it) are pretty much the only things I give a fuck about on Raw these days. Oh and Show/Sheamus feud that despite being for the WHC which is technically "Smackdown's title" still gets more exposure on Raw lol.


Replace AJ with Cesaro and that's all I care about. Oh, and Brad 'The Great' Maddox.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Worst period for Raw for me would be either 2003 between Rock leaving and Goldberg/HHH ending, Raw 2007 during Cena/Khali and Cena/Lashley feuds, Raw 2009 with Orton/Batista, Orton/HHH and Orton/Cena or Raw 2011 between WM27 and Punk's promo. Fuck me, 2012 is like a gold mine compared to those imo. Of course, that's all down to CM Punk and if he wasn't there and Cena was still champ and on top, I may have conceded as well that 2012 is the worst year for Raw.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He IS an all time great. Cal just said it best ; WHO THE FUCK COULD WORK AN INTERESTING PROGRAM WITH RYBACK ? 

The three hour format is just BAD and insalvageable by any one performer in company history. I don't care if the supposed "GOAT's" like Rock and Austin were back on a consistent basis, if they had the supporting cast that PUNK has right now, the show would be just as bad if not worse. Like that astrophysics presenter said ; Punk is Daniel Day Lewis stuck in an endless stream of Transformers movies. 

(Waiting for everybody to mark out when Rock gets "Walrus" trending worldwide :heyman)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh, also Kane and Bryan. I still think they are doing great as a team. And I hope after TLC Ambrose (and those other 2 I suppose) gets to do more than attack people and feud with Ryback. Urgh, why are the more talented guys getting fed to Ryback lately? He just fucking kills any momentum anyone has by being utter shite.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> Worst period for Raw for me would be either 2003 between Rock leaving and Goldberg/HHH ending, Raw 2007 during Cena/Khali and Cena/Lashley feuds, Raw 2009 with Orton/Batista, Orton/HHH and Orton/Cena or Raw 2011 between WM27 and Punk's promo. Fuck me, 2012 is like a gold mine compared to those imo. Of course, that's all down to CM Punk and if he wasn't there and Cena was still champ and on top, I may have conceded as well that 2012 is the worst year for Raw.


I disagree on damn near everyone of them. From 2003, Scott Steiner's feud with Chris Nowinski was more entertaining than Punk has been his entire career as well as the rest of this shitty show today. 2009 with Orton as top heel was like the Attitude Era compared to today (YES, even with guest hosts!) and 2011 around May time was better than now because R-Truth made it bearable when they gave him the chance to enter the main event for a brief minute. I wont argue 2007, though. But that has more to do with what happened outside the show than the shows themselves.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I think he's on his way to being an all-time great, but not yet. And I certainly wouldn't put him above some of the all time greats who have wrestled for 20-25 years and had to compete with better workers in the company at a time when the business was hot. Those are the shoe-in all time greats. Any wrestler who is on top now benefits that the company doesn't have many stars for them to compete with for air-time.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> I'd argue that Punk's hottest streak of his career was hotter than just about 99.9 percent of every WWE superstars streak in history, in terms of match quality + promo quality + hype + overall interest from the fans , Punk's hottest streak > Cena/HHH/HBK/Orton (well, no contest there ) , etc.


Would you say Punk is a Top 5-10 WWF/E superstar ever? Over guys like Savage, Bret, and HBK who I'd say are fair to compare him to them.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I disagree on damn near everyone of them. From 2003, Scott Steiner's feud with Chris Nowinski was more entertaining than Punk has been his entire career as well as the rest of this shitty show today. 2009 with Orton as top heel was like the Attitude Era compared to today (YES, even with guest hosts!) and 2011 around May time was better than now because R-Truth made it bearable when they gave him the chance to enter the main event for a brief minute. I wont argue 2007, though. But that has more to do with what happened outside the show than the shows themselves.


I don't remember the Steiner/Nowinski feud at all and truthfully, I don't give a damn. Nothing on Raw that year was worth while after Rock left besides maybe Austin being co-GM. Orton as top heel on Raw in 09 after he had his momentum crushed is part of the reason 09 got pretty bad that year, along with the guest hosts. 2011... the fact Truth is apparently what made it bearable says enough. 

I'd still put 2012 above all of them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Take Punk now and replace him with ANYBODY and tell me that the show would be that much better off. It's just a bunch of fucking bullshit honestly. No ONE wrestler can carry a wrestling program for three fucking hours every Monday Night. Not AUSTIN, not ROCK, not HOGAN, not FLAIR, not CENA, not PUNK. 

Punk IS being asked to carry these shows too. Ridiculous.
¸
EDIT : *Clique,* I`ma think about that one. By think about it, I mean think about where I`d have Punk ALL TIME right now, as well as where he has the potential to end up if he stays on top being consistently great. I`d already have him miles above every other full-timer since 2009 though, and that`s without much thought (ALL AROUND). I had a GOAT top 25 list written in pen around here somewhere, I`ll let you guys know where I have Punk ranked in a little bit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> I don't remember the Steiner/Nowinski feud at all and truthfully, I don't give a damn. Nothing on Raw that year was worth while after Rock left besides maybe Austin being co-GM. Orton as top heel on Raw in 09 after he had his momentum crushed is part of the reason 09 got pretty bad that year, along with the guest hosts. 2011... the fact Truth is apparently what made it bearable says enough.
> 
> I'd still put 2012 above all of them.


Steiner and Nowinski's debate segment was awesome. And that was me just taking the humorous "so bad it's good" stuff from 2003. Also Kane's initial unmasking and his monster run was great. As was Evolution started their feud with Foley. And Austin as co GM > 2012.

I'd rather get waterboarded than sit through another Raw from 2012 tbh. And those years weren't 3 hours at least.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Tbh, I like 2012, especially right now. Punk/Heyman owns, The Shield, Cesaro, I'm liking face Miz, good tag division that's starting to be used and Sheamus/Show being surprisingly good. Enjoying Barrett more than usual too.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The thing is, even with him, the show is AWFUL. He is the only bright spot of the show and even he is stale. Punk is like HBK in alot of ways in 1996. HBK was the star of a shitty show and was asked to carry the company. Only thing different is the company was making even less money back then because there were less revenue streams than there are today. But the ratings for RAW for today and 1996 are even similar. No one is drawing for the company on Raw right now.

Aside from that, it is way too early to say he is better than some of the all time WWF/E greats. Some of those guys had 20-25 year runs in the company. Waaaay too pre-mature for that.

EDIT: But thinking about it, the similarities in situations that HBK had in '96 and Punk has now are rather striking. Both in their prime being asked to carry the company at a time when the company is not on fire, and is kind of an after-thought in both time periods. They were both one of the company's very few bright spots. And no matter how good they are (or anyone is), one guy can't carry a company.

Only real difference was back in '96 WWF had to deal with WCW breathing down it's neck. They have no such competition these days, which they should be very thankful for.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've liked a lot of 2012 simple because we've had some great wrestling. Most of the storylines have sucked, and while its great when we get BOTH being good, I'll take great matches and shit storylines over shit matches and good storylines.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> I've liked a lot of 2012 simple because we've had some great wrestling. Most of the storylines have sucked, and while its great when we get BOTH being good, I'll take great matches and shit storylines over shit matches and good storylines.


Agreed.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Just watched Hogan V Macho Man WM 5

The fuck was that?

Savage works on Hogans throat for fifteen minutes, Hogan Hulks up out of no where, does the leg drop of doom. Wins and completely no sells the the injury. What a plate of shit.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> EDIT : *Clique,* I`ma think about that one. By think about it, I mean think about where I`d have Punk ALL TIME right now, as well as where he has the potential to end up if he stays on top being consistently great. I`d already have him miles above every other full-timer since 2009 though, and that`s without much thought (ALL AROUND). I had a GOAT top 25 list written in pen around here somewhere, I`ll let you guys know where I have Punk ranked in a little bit.


Maybe it was someone else but I thought you posted your Top 10 a couple of months ago and said Punk and Cena had done enough to be considered Top 10 right now (just WWE/F history). I personally wouldn't say Punk is better than the three guys I mentioned. It's probably personal taste which will probably always come into play. We probably do have to consider what Showstopper 97 said when we look back at the span of their careers with the company. Although Savage was with the company around 9 years and Punk will be at 7 years next year so I wouldn't say it is too unfair to compare them right now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWF/E Guys I'd Put Over Punk:

Undertaker
Austin
Backlund
Michaels
Mysterio
Foley
Bret

Then there are a handful of guys like Savage, Benoit, Guerrero, Cena who for various reasons could top him but I'd have to put more thought into it and in some cases see more of them (Savage for instance since I'm drawing a blank on his stuff outside of Steamboat and Hogan... and Warrior though I ain't as high on that as everyone else). Guys like Benoit and Guerrero for the most part were hard working mid card guys and then had a somewhat short run at the top while Punk was also mid card but has been on top longer. Benoit's 04 and Guerrero's 05 would probably be the main reason I would put them about Punk if I did.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> I don't remember the Steiner/Nowinski feud at all and truthfully, I don't give a damn. *Nothing on Raw that year was worth while after Rock left besides maybe Austin being co-GM*. Orton as top heel on Raw in 09 after he had his momentum crushed is part of the reason 09 got pretty bad that year, along with the guest hosts. 2011... the fact Truth is apparently what made it bearable says enough.
> 
> I'd still put 2012 above all of them.


-Goldberg as champ?
-The immediate aftermath of Kane's unmasking?
-The Kane/Shane feud which many people on the IWC praised?
-Evolution?
-HHH/HBK at the last Raw of the year?

Yeah Raw was bore until the summer but it picked back up after Kane's unmasking.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Goldberg was terrible for his entire WWE run. Kane/Shane sucked and their matches are terrible. Evolution had a far better run in 04. Jericho/HBK needs to be mentioned more as a great Raw match from 03. I mean, there are only two of them yet only one gets mentioned!!!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Is that just in-ring Cal? Adding promos and character into the mix changes things if we are looking at it from an overall perspective. Savage would most certainly be up there for me. Savage wasn't a Bret or Benoit in the ring but he was so distinct in everything he did down to a running knee to the back that made him so special to watch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> WWF/E Guys I'd Put Over Punk:
> 
> Undertaker
> Austin
> ...


On what are you basing this on? Impact, legacy, wrestling abilities? If any of those are included, Punk shouldn't even be top 50.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Marv95 said:


> -Goldberg as champ?
> -The immediate aftermath of Kane's unmasking?
> -The Kane/Shane feud which many people on the IWC praised?
> -Evolution?
> ...


Goldberg has champ is part of the reason Raw was terrible. Kane's unmasking aftermath was good and I liked the reinvigorated Kane, but I didn't find the Kane/Shane feud anything that special. Don't care what many said. Evolution imo picked up more in 2004 and 2005... 2003 was just "eh" for them until the end of the year when they got all the titles. And HBK/HHH last Raw of the year, while an awesome match, I was looking at the grand scheme of things... not necessarily just one match.

I still maintain 2003 had pretty much nothing worthwhile outside of the first 3 months, which really comes down to Hollywood Rock and Austin/Rock. Maybe you can put what I said about Kane as far as something good in 2003, and Austin as co-gm, but besides that it really wasn't much better than Raw right now imo.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Here comes the GOAT debate....


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

The Kane/Shane feud was _entertaining_. Match quality isn't the only thing that matters and sometimes it doesn't matter. Made me want to know what the hell they were gonna do next week.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Is that just in-ring Cal? Adding promos and character into the mix changes things if we are looking at it from an overall perspective. Savage would most certainly be up there for me. Savage wasn't a Bret or Benoit in the ring but he was so distinct in everything he did down to a running knee to the back that made him so special to watch.





Choke2Death said:


> On what are you basing this on? Impact, legacy, wrestling abilities? If any of those are included, Punk shouldn't even be top 50.


I'm basing mainly on ring work/amount of quality matches with promos thrown in, and how much I personally like them.

And I personally didn't find Kane/Shane feud that entertaining .

Edit: And after thinking about it for about 2 minutes, I'd probably throw Benoit and Guerrero over Punk.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> I'm basing mainly on ring work/amount of quality matches with promos thrown in, and how much I personally like them.


In which case Benoit should be top 5 regardless of his midcard status.  Specially since you also included Mysterio and he's not exactly great on the mic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When I put up my rankings in a little bit, they're going to be based on "All-Around Ability" , meaning that if I'm ranking in-ring work AND Mic work (the two qualities that I believe define what it means to be great... None of this "drawing" bullshit) out of 10, the performer needs to have atleast a 7.5 out of 10 in BOTH categories to qualify.

This eliminates the likes of Benoit, Mysterio, Bret, and Backlund who are all top 10 workers in company history but lack the necessary mic skills, and eliminates the likes of Piper, Rock and various others due to my feelings that they lack a certain in-ring component (I.E. they've never had a "classic" while being the better worker with whoever they had the classic with). If I was just doing top 10s of individual traits, these guys would be on the lists easily IMO.

In terms of the complete and total package, there are VERY few who would be ranked 7.5 or higher in BOTH categories..... OH GOODIE NOW I'M EXCITED. 

PS: This isn't really biased whatsoever, seeing as I'm a huge mark for guys like Benoit/Bret , while really liking Mysterio/Piper, and the like. I'll give them credit where credit is due, seriously.

This isn't a GOAT list either. I'd put Bret/Benoit over some of the better "all around talents" , but this is merely who does the two essential components necessary to being an all time great the best... Think of it as the best "Total Packages".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh sorry, wrong place, I thought I was in the dvd/match/show thread lol.




/joke

Saying that, in terms of in ring abilty, its obvious to me Benoit and Eddie are above Punk IMHO, and I enjoy Punk most of the time, love his ROH stuff with Joe, probably more than most of his wwe stuff tbh.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

See even if I think Punk is a better mic worker than Benoit, Bret, and Mysterio and he is a great wrestler in his own right in the ring, I wouldn't say he's better than those guys. I guess I just prefer those guys and the work they produced more.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> Oh, also Kane and Bryan. I still think they are doing great as a team. And I hope after TLC Ambrose (and those other 2 I suppose) gets to do more than attack people and feud with Ryback. Urgh, why are the more talented guys getting fed to Ryback lately? He just fucking kills any momentum anyone has by being utter shite.


I'd care more about Bryan (like I used to) if they quit booking him like such a joke. That being said, I have high hopes that the current feud w/The Shield will mean great things for both parties, including a return to more of a serious role for Bryan.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I really can't see any possible way Punk is a better worker than Benoit or Guerrero. Wait, is anybody actually saying he is/might be? IDK what I'm reading or writing. If I was thinking about the top in-ring careers in WWE history I doubt Punk would even cross my mind. Take away pre-WWE Punk and I wouldn't have him over Mark Henry. I mean I think Punk is a much better wrestler from 09-now than he was in ROH, but 06-12 Punk v 06-12 Henry, I'll give it Henry. Maybe I'll change my mind when I re-watch the Rey series. Probably won't, maybe? IDK, who does know? No one even brought this up, right? Why so many questions that no one will answer?Is Starbuck really a girl? 

Punk's match with Del Rio was brought up. It was all right, but actually a little boring. Punk didn't do much very noteworthy from after 8/22/11 up until Mania v Jericho. Wait, I did like that Ziggler match in October or November or whenever it was a good deal. Other than that, yeah. OH, and those early Danielson matches. Forgot those.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I have Punk/Del Rio from SS11 at ****. Thought the crowd was fantastic, they were loving Punk. This was during the time where you'd see nothing but the white BITW shirts scattered everywhere in the crowd. Fun match, Del Rio's best WWE match along with the ladder match with Christian.

My top ten MOTY list for 2012. Doubt TLC will change anything:

1. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: Undertaker vs. Triple H_ - ****1/2
2. _Over the Limit 2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****1/2
3. _Night of Champions 2012: John Cena vs. CM Punk_ - ****1/4
4. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
5. _Extreme Rules 2012: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
6. _Extreme Rules 2012: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****
7. _WWE RAW 4/2/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ****
8. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: John Cena vs. The Rock_ - ***3/4
9. _Money in the Bank 2012: Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4_
10. _Over the Limit 2012: Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio_ - ***3/4

Others are Sheamus/Big Show HIAC (***3/4), Lesnar/Cena ER (***1/2), Punk/Bryan MITB (***1/2), Punk/Henry RAW 4/16 (***1/2)

Rewatched Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar again to maybe give it another chance. Still the same garbage match. **


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one that didn't really care for Jericho/Punk from ER much? I felt it kinda dragged. Still a decent match but nowhere near ****+ imo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I think the same Reindeer Killer.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't like at all. My thought process during it was 'Please, please end already".


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I just rewatched it too, and thought it was just as fun the first time I watched it. Personally, despite the mediocre storyline they were in, I think they pulled off a great story in the match and used the Street Fight stipulation nicely. The moment where Punk loses his shit after Jericho went after his sister still makes me :mark:. Crowd was great too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ok good, glad I'm not alone on that. I see people throwing it in their top 10 match lists and raving about it being better than the WM match and it's a bit puzzling. Both Sheamus/Bryan and Cena/Lesnar from that same show blow it out of the water.

edit - I recall the crowd being kinda dead for most of it until the finishing stretch...or was that just the WM match?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like the spots in the ER match but I think they could have been set up better. Still really enjoy it though.

I tend to enjoy matches more when with friends.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

That was definitely the 'Mania match lol. The Chicago crowd at ER were hot all night from what I remember.

Edit: Ugh, I didn't really like Lesnar/Cena. I thought _that_ match dragged, and just wanted it to end. Same with Lesnar/Triple H, which was even worse.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I think many people called it 'dead ' cause they were expecting it to be MITB'11 levels which is was never going to be. Still a good match, though out shined by the two classics in Bryan/Sheamus and Brock/Cena.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ER '12 is such a great PPV overall.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Edit: Ugh, I didn't really like Lesnar/Cena. I thought _that_ match dragged, and just wanted it to end. Same with Lesnar/Triple H, which was even worse.


Lesnar/Hunter definitely isn't on the same level as Lesnar/Cena, though I still enjoyed it and thought it was a pretty good match. I can go on and on about the reasons I believe Lesnar/Cena to be amazing, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved Lesnar/Cena, but I just really couldn't get into Lesnar/Trips on two watches now. Something different about it that I just don't care for.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I can go on and on about the reasons I believe Lesnar/Cena to be amazing, though.


Oh, I think I've heard them all haha. Mostly from a lot of people here. I just don't get it. I thought it was boring after the first few minutes when Cena got busted open, which was a great spot. Everything after that was dreadful to watch. Although like I've said the first time I watched it, I didn't watch it live and I've heard enough about the match already before I even saw it, so I'm betting that was a big factor. Triple H vs. Lesnar though, wow that was bad. Despite Lesnar not impressing me in-ring this year with his two matches, I'm still a huge fan of his in-ring style and am looking forward to his 'Mania match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar nearly killing himself in the Cena match when he catapulted himself over the ropes adds ***1/4 to any rating.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Lesnar nearly killing himself in the Cena match when he catapulted himself over the ropes adds ***1/4 to any rating.


See, I thought that spot was completely dumb and gave it a nice lil' facepalm. Opinions are like assholes.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How dare you.

In all seriousness, that was the spot that led to Lesnar's ultimate demise because when he went for it a second time, Cena had it scouted and saw the small window of opportunity to turn the match around after getting beat to shit for 20 minutes. Classic.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

:batista3

I'm sorry, I wish I could get it.

What's everyone's ideal combination of Wrestlemania main events using the big six? (Cena, Lesnar, Rock, Punk, Undertaker, and maybe Triple H)

I really have no idea. I just hope they don't fuck up and actually go the Cena/Rock II route. Ew.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*What I would like*
Punk/Rock/Cena
Taker/Lesnar
HHH/Sheamus 

*What I think we will get*
Rock/Cena II
BORK/Game II
Punk/Taker


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Lesnar/Taker
Rock/Cena/Punk


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar/Taker
Punk/HHH
Cena/Rock 

or if no HHH

Lesnar/Taker
Cena/Rock/Punk

or if they're feeling a tad crazy

Lesnar/Rock
Cena/Taker
Punk/idk

Hoping it's not

Lesnar/HHH
Cena/Rock 
Punk/Taker


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd like:

Taker/Lesnar
Punk/Rock

Cena can job to Barrett. HHH can job to Mahal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Mercy 2005:*

Legion of Doom 2k5/Christy Hemme vs MNM/Melina - **1/4
- Just a fun opening match that doesn't go long enough to get redundant. Tag division is a bit too limited with only these two teams, though. So it's stale and I can't say I cared for this one much. Christy's attempt at the Doomsday Device was not terribly bad either even though Animal did an Electric Chair to make the move look good.

Bobby Lashley vs Simon Dean - **1/2
- Another fun match. Little more than a squash match but the side story with the cheeseburgers makes it funny and Lashley's offense is cool. Unlike most beginners, he's not invincible and Simon actually gets some offense in. Also liked the backstage segments throughout the PPV after it with Simon trying to eat all the burgers he ordered.

Chris Benoit vs Christian vs Booker T vs Orlando Jordan - ***3/4
- A highly enjoyable match with the ring action divided evenly between all four guys. Would have preferred a singles match between Benoit and Christian but I'm glad with what I got regardless. Some great nearfalls and well paced action. Benoit wins by making Christian tap out to the Sharpshooter.

Mr. Kennedy vs Hardcore Holly - **3/4
- Not a bad PPV debut for Kennedy. I find him hilarious and his dissing of Chimel wont get old. The match itself is well worked for two not so great workers and I enjoyed it while it lasted. I'm surprised Kennedy was even allowed to do the Green Bay Plunge since it requires the smallest botch to result in a broken neck. Also am I the only one who thinks these two look extremely similar from a distance? And post-match, the Hardcore Jobber takes a beatdown from Sylvan Grainer that writes him off the shows for a long period.

JBL vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
- A pretty good match between Bradshaw and the biggest little man. These two have some kind of chemistry that makes their matches work so well. Can't point out what it is but it was enjoyable. Nothing GREAT but good nonetheless. JBL gets his return victory after losing clean on Smackdown weeks before. Also The Boogeyman cannot come any sooner to rip that damn thing off of Jillian's face!

Randy Orton/"Cowboy" Bob Orton Jr. vs The Undertaker - ****
- Another very good match between Orton and Taker here. This one involves a casket so it's a bit different and the ring is not utilized entirely like their previous matches. This is also a bit different with Bob Orton's involvement. Personally, I think he slows it down a little but he spends enough time on the background to let his son go at it with Undertaker like only they can. Once Bob is inside the casket with the fire extinguisher, the pace picks up and match gets a lot better heading towards the end. Then the casket is opened up and Bob sprays the fire extinguisher in Taker's face, which saves the Ortons from losing this one. After a chairshot to the head, Taker is finally put out of his misery with the casket closed. Orton then sets the casket on fire post-match to write Taker off until Survivor Series. Nothing can go wrong when Randy & Taker are in the ring together! Has been such a great feud to watch and the matches have all been awesome.

Juventud vs Nunzio - ***1/4
- So much red, white and green on this one with Italy and Mexico! Also Nunzio only made ONE Smackdown appearance since becoming cruiserweight champion. What an injustice to the title as they put all the action on Velocity including the title change before this one. For the match, in 7 minutes, they do about everything necessary for a fast paced cruiserweight match. Highly enjoyed it and as expected, Juventud, or rather "The Juice" (lol), wins this one. Also what's the matter with the close-up camera angle they have on for damn near the entire match? Something was strange about it to me.

Batista vs Eddie Guerrero - ***1/2
- A very decent main event and the last ever match Eddie had on PPV. It's a bit slow paced with them using the strength game and restholds quite a bit as well as Eddie being schizophrenic about whether he should use his cheating ways or to be "the new" Eddie that wants respect. Outside of when restholds are abused, the action is pretty fine and it's an enjoyable match. Kinda touching to watch the ending as Eddie walks to the back after shaking Batista's hand since this would be his last time on PPV. The remaining shows from 2005 are going to be hard to watch from now since I know Eddie's life is about to come to an end after a handful of shows. 

*Overall:* ***1/2 out of ***** (Probably the best Smackdown PPV from 2005 so far. Nothing is horrible and most of it ranges from good to great. I specially liked the Casket and US Championship matches but the rest of it was not bad either.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This is a lot longer than 10 minutes. It's 20.

And to throw my two cents on current things here:

I liked Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules. It is **** in my book. Perhaps could be marking bias. It doesn't come CLOSE to touching the WrestleMania match, however.

Cena vs Brock is the best WWE match of the year. I can't understand any argument against it, personally. Unless you want to put Punk vs Danielson over it.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - II - 12/11/06 - Monday Night Raw (Thanks for posting that link several pages back)
Hardy starts off getting dominated, but he hits a sunset flip. Umaga holds his ground and goes for the butt drop to no avail. Hardy hits a couple drop kicks and a crossbody. Umaga throws Hardy into the corner, but Hardy soon hits a whisper in the wind. We go to commercial and come back to see Hardy miss a suicide dive. They go back into the ring and Umaga applies a nerve hold. Umaga holds onto it for about a minute before Hardy hits a few punches. Hardy evades a slam and connects with a drop kick. Umaga bounces off the ropes and nails Hardy with a clothesline. Umaga going up top. Oh I guess this is a thing he does often. Umaga misses a splash
and Hardy is going up top. Swanton connects. Umaga kicks out. He goes for a twist of fate, but Umaga reverses it and hits a Samoan drop. Hardy is hung up in the tree of woe. Some weird running headbutt to the chest of Hardy, and Umaga follows with a stink face. A second stink face! The referee calls the match. Umaga hits another stinkface after the bell. The referee tries to calm Umaga down but eats a Samoan Spike. Umaga hits Hardy with a Samoan spike and poses over him.

Umaga looked really strong here. Hardy didn't seem that weak here except that Umaga kicked out of his finisher, but that can be justified since Umaga wasn't really weakened before it. Not as good as their first bout, but nothing bad. **

Jeff Hardy (c) vs. Umaga - III - 2/19/07 - Intercontinental Championship - Monday Night Raw
The match starts with Hardy using his speed to get the advantage and Umaga is on the floor. Hardy hits a couple drop kicks and suicide dive but is caught. Hardy escapes and runs off the guard rail for a high flying move to be caught with a strike. They go back in the ring and Umaga hits a kick and headbutt. Hardy soon is starting to fight back but gets elbowed followed with a leg drop. Umaga hits a few more strikes and applies a nerve hold (this is seeming like a trend). Hardy strings a couple of punches together but eats a clothesline. Umaga is on the second rope and he goes for a headbutt. No water in the pool. Hardy dodges a stinger splash and hits a Whisper in the Wind. Umaga uses his strength to shove Jeff away and nails a Samoan drop. Umaga pulls Hardy into the corner and nails several punches. STINK FACE! Umaga signals for the spike and nails it. That is the match. New Intercontinental Championship!

Umaga dominated Jeff with his power, but they played a good Speed against Strength dynamic in the match. Umaga looked really strong in this match, and it bothered me how easily Umaga put him away. I still enjoyed this match and I'd say its my favorite of the three thus far. **3/4


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> This is a lot longer than 10 minutes. It's 20.


I knew it! Wikipedia is a damn liar.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> *No Mercy 2005:*
> 
> Mr. Kennedy vs Hardcore Holly - **3/4
> - Not a bad PPV debut for Kennedy. I find him hilarious and his dissing of Chimel wont get old. *The match itself is well worked*


A well worked Kennedy match. 

There is no such thing.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Cena vs Brock is the best WWE match of the year. I can't understand any argument against it, personally. Unless you want to put Punk vs Danielson over it.


I said this last night in another thread and for me no match this year told a better story in the ring, had an atmosphere as intense & exhausting, and was the perfect END (to a four year story arc) like the Undertaker vs. HHH with HBK as special ref Hell In A Cell at WrestleMania 28. It was so thrilling and exhausting to witness. It wasn't just a match it was an experience for me sitting at ringside. I say Lesnar/Cena live as well from Allstate Arena and I had never seen such brutality and physicality in a pro wrestling match but the story & emotional tied to the End Of An Era puts it over the top in a close battle for Match Of The Year 2012.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I agree w/Clique here. HHH/Taker is MOTY in a category by itself, but Cena/Lesnar leads the rest of the pack.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> A well worked Kennedy match.
> 
> There is no such thing.


I'm not even a fan of his, but that match was better than I expected it to be. Not very familiar with him yet but if this thread is anything to go by, he's got some good stuff from late 06-early 07 to his name.

On a side-note: the next SD episode I'll watch tomorrow has the only Eddie Guerrero/Randy Orton one-on-one match ever. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I knew it! Wikipedia is a damn liar.


I crush Wikipedia's facts.



Clique said:


> I said this last night in another thread and for me no match this year told a better story in the ring, had an atmosphere as intense & exhausting, and was the perfect END (to a four year story arc) like the Undertaker vs. HHH with HBK as special ref Hell In A Cell at WrestleMania 28. It was so thrilling and exhausting to witness. It wasn't just a match it was an experience for me sitting at ringside. I say Lesnar/Cena live as well from Allstate Arena and I had never seen such brutality and physicality in a pro wrestling match but the story & emotional tied to the End Of An Era puts it over the top in a close battle for Match Of The Year 2012.


I gave both the same snowflakes. Although, I'd greatly take Cena vs Brock over it. Even with me having the satisfaction of Undertaking winning and continuing the streak.

@ mk92071 ~ (Y) at the reviews. Jeff/Umaga matches were always worth watching. Can't wait for you to see the GAB match. I'm not overhyping it either. It has one of the best babyface comebacks I think I've seen. Especially vs such a BEAST of an opponent. You seen it before?


@ Choke2Death ~ Glad to see you loved the 4 way from No Mercy. That match is underrated. It's great. I hated that Handicap Casket match. Bored me to tears. Only part of the Taker/Orton feud I disliked. Show more love to JBL/Mysterio please. Their chemistry is wonderful. JBL's promos are THE BEST too.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HHH/Taker > Cena/Brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> @ Choke2Death ~ Glad to see you loved the 4 way from No Mercy. That match is underrated. It's great. I hated that Handicap Casket match. Bored me to tears. Only part of the Taker/Orton feud I disliked. Show more love to JBL/Mysterio please. Their chemistry is wonderful. JBL's promos are THE BEST too.


Believe it or not, I usually skip JBL's segments when he has a mic. He's like SD's own Triple H in that he never shuts the fuck up and spends 10 minutes just to say the same ol' shit. I'm still a fan, though. Just not a fan of lengthy, dragged out promos that are based on cheap heat (how many times has he cut promos about Mexican stereotypes? I've lost count) or self-dick sucking (I'M A WRESTLING GAAAAAAWD AND A GREAT AMERICAN!). The match was good but I gotta be honest, I watched it yesterday before I went to bed and I've pretty much forgotten most of it already. I'm very excited for their JD2006 match, though. Have a feeling I'll like it but will wait until it's time to watch it.

Love EVERYTHING involving Taker/Orton including that casket match. Dunno why, but Orton wrestling in 2004-2007 is eye candy to me. And I've already seen the 4 way before, but didn't remember much save for the finish. A rewatch refreshed my memories and I still enjoy it as much.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I crush Wikipedia's facts.
> @ mk92071 ~ (Y) at the reviews. Jeff/Umaga matches were always worth watching. Can't wait for you to see the GAB match. I'm not overhyping it either. It has one of the best babyface comebacks I think I've seen. Especially vs such a BEAST of an opponent. You seen it before?


Never watched the GAB match. Only seen the ONS match in their series up till yesterday. Looking forward to it.

I wasn't a fan of the Cena/Lesnar match this year. The atmosphere was good, but the match not so much. Just didn't care for Lesnar and his character. The match failed to get me into it. I haven't watched it in a while (but I have seen it multiple times) but last I remembered it just seemed like Brock tossed Cena and the referees around until Cena hit the AA. I wasn't into any of the big spots either, and the blood didn't add anything to the match imo. The few times I watched it I never considered giving it *** or above because I didn't enjoy it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Believe it or not, I usually skip JBL's segments when he has a mic. He's like SD's own Triple H in that he never shuts the fuck up and spends 10 minutes just to say the same ol' shit. I'm still a fan, though. Just not a fan of lengthy, dragged out promos that are based on cheap heat (how many times has he cut promos about Mexican stereotypes? I've lost count) or self-dick sucking (I'M A WRESTLING GAAAAAAWD AND A GREAT AMERICAN!). The match was good but I gotta be honest, I watched it yesterday before I went to bed and I've pretty much forgotten most of it already. I'm very excited for their JD2006 match, though. Have a feeling I'll like it but will wait until it's time to watch it.
> 
> Love EVERYTHING involving Taker/Orton including that casket match. Dunno why, but Orton wrestling in 2004-2007 is eye candy to me. And I've already seen the 4 way before, but didn't remember much save for the finish. A rewatch refreshed my memories and I still enjoy it as much.


Some of his promos were drawn out. The ones on Mexicans were my favorites though. Classic rich asshole bully. Brilliant. No Mercy crushes Judgment Day '06 imo. JD is good. Some people find it to be great. I'm sure you'll like it either way.

I was the same way with Orton. Except for that match. I rather was his match vs a one legged Hogan @ Summerslam '06 than that match. To it's credit, the Hogan match was A LOT better than I expected. Btw, the Orton/Eddie match went 15 minutes (including commercial) So, it should go about 11-12 total. I haven't since the night it aired (which explains the time I have) but I bet it's quality. Eddie rolling with his tweener shenanigans and Orton at his peak.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Some of his promos were drawn out. The ones on Mexicans were my favorites though. Classic rich asshole bully. Brilliant. No Mercy crushes Judgment Day '06 imo. JD is good. Some people find it to be great. I'm sure you'll like it either way.
> 
> I was the same way with Orton. Except for that match. I rather was his match vs a one legged Hogan @ Summerslam '06 than that match. To it's credit, the Hogan match was A LOT better than I expected. Btw, the Orton/Eddie match went 15 minutes (including commercial) So, it should go about 11-12 total. I haven't since the night it aired (which explains the time I have) but I bet it's quality. Eddie rolling with his tweener shenanigans and Orton at his peak.


Yeah, some of them are quality. Like the one on the border and the promo on Rey with the goofy clothing and the camel is actually among his better ones. I'm mainly talking about his promos earlier in 05 in his final months as champion and during the Batista feud. It was truly the same ol' shit but he has a gem from January which I found hilarious. He talks about winning some kind of award and that kids chant his name every morning on their breakfast tables. :lol Too bad I can't find it on youtube or even dailymotion. It's from 13/1/05 if you wanna see it.

And I guess it comes down to opinions because the Hogan match was dragged down heavily by the fact that the Hulkster was barely able to move whereas the casket match I found entertaining. Glad the Eddie match gets over 10 minutes. Should be good enough as I didn't even know that the two wrestled each other before Eddie's death in a singles match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, some of them are quality. Like the one on the border and the promo on Rey with the goofy clothing and the camel is actually among his better ones. I'm mainly talking about his promos earlier in 05 in his final months as champion and during the Batista feud. It was truly the same ol' shit but he has a gem from January which I found hilarious. He talks about winning some kind of award and that kids chant his name every morning on their breakfast tables. :lol Too bad I can't find it on youtube or even dailymotion. It's from 13/1/05 if you wanna see it.
> 
> And I guess it comes down to opinions because the Hogan match was dragged down heavily by the fact that the Hulkster was barely able to move whereas the casket match I found entertaining. Glad the Eddie match gets over 10 minutes. Should be good enough as I didn't even know that the two wrestled each other before Eddie's death in a singles match.


Yep. The Batista program is where I was referring to. Nothing about that program was good. Decent brawl at Summerslam '05 was it. haha. I don't recall that, but I'll TRY and scope it out. Doubtful if you couldn't find it yourself. Maybe I'll get Yeah1993 on it. He's the magician for finding things on the streaming sites.

Oh yeah, of course. I seem to be the only guy who doesn't like the casket match. No bother to me. I simply couldn't get into it. Maybe if it lacked Bob Orton Jr, I wouldn't be so negative on it. Maybe. Yep. One of Eddie's final bouts too. Strategic move to place him in the ring with one of the bigger/better heels at the time. Get that return to the face side going. Explains the bout vs Kennedy too. I wonder if Eddie made that any good. I know I marked big time for the finish back in the day.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll try uploading that JBL segment on youtube. Got nearly all of 2005 so maybe I should give uploading a try. A tag match with the guys from the No Mercy 4-way already got past the copyright bullshit, so I'll see if I can upload more. I'll link it here or alternatively, via rep if I am successful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sounds like a plan. Hope you can get it up. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena-Lesnar from Extreme Rules is like a top TEN company match for me ever, so like... Obviously it's my MOTY , with Punk-Bryan KIND OF close (since it's almost ***** too believe it or not), and some others (HHH-Lesnar, HHH-Taker, Punk-Jericho WM) in the distance. FUCK. When I'm done this project I'm going to see all of this again.

In regards to Punk being better than Benoit & Guerrero in the ring ; he ISN'T. Is he THAT far off ? Nope, I really believe he isn't despite how much some people may hate that idea. If I were to say who's the better TOTAL PACKAGE of the three however ; the discussion would get really interesting between Guerrero and Punk. 

I went back through the years and started GRADING guys out of 20 ; out of 10 for their in-ring skills, and out of 10 for their mic work, to determine who is the best "total package" in history, as well as breaking the list down into tiers. You can only be a "total package" in my eyes by having a 7.5 or over in both categories, so although they're better than some of these guys and SCORED HIGHER, (Benoit & Bret come to mind) they didn't average out well enough to make the cut. I'm talking about people who can wrestle just as good as they can cut promos.

*The "Ric Flair" Tier*

Ric Flair (Obviously) : 10/10 In-Ring , 10/10 Mic skills. 

Ric Flair is the Greatest Wrestler of all time in my eyes. I've made that well known to pretty much everybody out there that will read my stuff, and as far as perfection comes in the industry, whether it be consistency OR great primes, Flair has EVERYBODY beaten. If I listed my top 10 GOAT matches, Flair would be in atleast 4 of them, and if I listed my top 10 promos ever, he might be in half of them. I just LOVE the guy.

*The "Nearly Damn Perfect All Around" Tier *

Steve Austin : 9/10 In-Ring, 9/10 Mic 18 total
Eddie Guerrero : 9.75 In-Ring, 8.25 Mic 18 total

*The "All Time Great" Tier*

Randy Savage : 9/10 In-Ring, 8.5 Mic 17.5 Total
Mick Foley : 8/10 In-Ring, 9.75/10 Mic 17.75 Total
CM Punk : 8.75 In-Ring, 8.75 Mic 17.5 Total
The Undertaker : 8.5 In-Ring, 7.5 Mic 16 Total
Triple H : 8.25 In Ring, 7.75 Mic 16 Total

*The "CLOSE To All Time Greatness" Tier*

John Cena : 8 In-Ring, 7.5 Mic 15.5 Total
Shawn Michaels : 8 In-Ring, 7.5 Mic 15.5 Total
Chris Jericho : 7.5 In-Ring, 8/10 Mic 15.5 Total

Probably missing alot of guys, but those are probably the 10 guys that I'd consider to be the best all-around talent that the WWE has ever seen. Guys like Benoit (10 In-Ring, 6 Mic) , Bret (9.75 In Ring, 7 Mic), and BACKLUND (9.5 In Ring, 7 Mic) would have a higher overall score (this being BETTER) than nearly half of the guys on my list, but it's a "complete packages" list so whatever.

In regards to Punk ; I think he definitely has a shot to hit that "Top 5 Total Package" status and beat out Savage & Foley in the future if he can. Personally, if he went out and had the same past two years in terms of match quality and promos for the NEXT 2-3 years, I could probably justify in my own mind putting him second. I don't think we'll ever see another Nature Boy, the Michael Jordan of wrestling in my eyes. 

TRUST ME... I know how flawed alot of this is, so don't get on my case for it :lol Now it's off to watch some HBK-HHH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Putting Mick Foley over Shawn Michaels puts you on a higher level in my eyes.

MICK FOLEY


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Mick only a 9.75 on the mic? Really underrating him tbh


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd put Taker/HHH above Lesnar/Cena, but neither gets my nod for MOTY, and neither get in my top 5. Punk/Bryan OTL by far gets MOTY for me.

As far as K1ngofK1ng's grading, here's how I put it (not going to change the order since I'm too lazy, just changing the grades)


Ric Flair (Obviously) : 9/10 In-Ring , 10/10 Mic skills 19 Total.

Steve Austin : 9/10 In-Ring, 9.5/10 Mic 18.5 total
Eddie Guerrero : 9.5/10 In-Ring, 9.5 Mic 19 total

Randy Savage : 9/10 In-Ring, 9 Mic 18 Total
Mick Foley : 7.5/10 In-Ring, 10/10 Mic 17.5 Total
CM Punk : 8.5 In-Ring, 9 Mic 17.5 Total
The Undertaker : 9 In-Ring, 8 Mic 17 Total
Triple H : 8 In Ring, 8 Mic 16 Total

John Cena : 8 In-Ring, 5 Mic 13 Total
Shawn Michaels : 9 In-Ring, 7.5 Mic 16.5 Total
Chris Jericho : 9 In-Ring, 10/10 Mic 19 Total


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mick is a 15/10 on the stick, tbhayley.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TBH, the only reason I didn't give a 10 to Foley on the mic is I wanted to clearly represent how I believe Flair is SLIGHTLY better on the mic than him. Foley is a close number two no doubt, but the GOAT is gonna GOAT :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those guys should have a match together to prove their superiority. 

:hmm:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I swear, every time I get off work you guys have added like 4 pages to this in a 5 hour window... Is there like a time frame we have to get this rivalry project done? I've been watching an ass ton of WWE lately and I feel like switching over to somethin else for a bit. Need to finish Slammiversary from this year and watch as much PWG & DGUSA as possible after all the Black Friday orders I made.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd put Foley above Flair on the mic, though they'd be my top 2.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My favorite Foley line ever might be the "WIN ONE FOR THE MICKER" when he's laid out backstage talking to Rock. :lmao

But everything that guy does it great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I swear, every time I get off work you guys have added like 4 pages to this in a 5 hour window... Is there like a time frame we have to get this rivalry project done? I've been watching an ass ton of WWE lately and I feel like switching over to somethin else for a bit. Need to finish Slammiversary from this year and watch as much PWG & DGUSA as possible after all the Black Friday orders I made.


Seems like we're set on it being done before the year is up.



Clark Griswold said:


> My favorite Foley line ever might be the "WIN ONE FOR THE MICKER" when he's laid out backstage talking to Rock. :lmao
> 
> But everything that guy does it great.


:lol

My favorite Foley line comes from the Anti-Hardcore promo added on Foley's Greatest Hits & Misses DVD:

"Pro wrestling will never be respected. No matter how many teeth I loose, no matter how many ears I loose, or NO MATTER HOW MANY BRAIN CELLS HAVE TO DIE!"

Chilling. I memorized that scripture. His "Cane Dewey" promo is exceptional too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> In regards to Punk ; I think he definitely has a shot to hit that "Top 5 Total Package" status and beat out Savage & Foley in the future if he can. Personally, if he went out and had the same past two years in terms of match quality and promos for the NEXT 2-3 years, I could probably justify in my own mind putting him second.


Maybe I just need to give Punk or even Cena some slack because Savage, Michaels, or Bret have the benefit of more time to reflect what they have done in the WWE as far as matches, programs/feuds, and legacy. I look at Savage's retirement match with Warrior, the Mega Powers Colliding, the personal feud with Roberts, the classic Steamboat and think iconic material. I'm thinking back to all the performances Shawn Michaels gave throughout his career, or the marvels Bret had with so many guys giving them the best matches of their careers. In some cases launching the careers of other legends into the stratosphere (i.e. Bulldog, Owen, Austin). But it's understandable everyone has different criteria and interests with their favorites.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Seems like we're set on it being done before the year is up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was in ECW, right? I love the ECW one with the tag title and the stuff with MIKEY WHIPWRECK~!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Mick Foley and HBK an "8" in the ring? SMFH. Just no. People in the business would absolutely, positively laugh out loud at the notion.

Triple H, Taker, and Punk an "8.25."? 

No, just no. HBK was having decent to good singles matches from 1992-1995 when Taker was still no selling and playing "dead."


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> That was in ECW, right? I love the ECW one with the tag title and the stuff with MIKEY WHIPWRECK~!


Yep.

When he spits on the WCW Tag Title was awesome. "Tonight I lost the 3 titles I had for the last 6 years. Craziest wrestler. Ugliest wrestler. And Jack Kevorkian's favorite wrestler!"

Paraphrasing, but it was nearly identical to that. 

Foley is my personal all time favorite when it comes to promos/mic work. As if someone already couldn't tell.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Meh, bored, so gonna give grades on today's roster (from what I know) for in ring and mic skills.

Alberto Del Rio- 7 in ring, 3 on mic, 10 Total
Alex Riley- 6 in ring, 6 on mic, 12 Total
Antonio Cesaro- 8 in ring, 4 on mic, 12 Total
Big Show- 5 in ring, 7.5 on mic, 12.5 Total
Brodus Clay- 2 in ring, 3 on mic, 5 Total
Christian- 8 in ring, 8 on mic, 16 Total
CM Punk : 8.5 in ring, 9 Mic, 17.5 Total
Cody Rhodes- 8 in ring, 7 on mic, 15 Total
Damien Sandow- 749,273 in ring, 9,821,521,508 on mic, 9,822,270,781 Total
Daniel Bryan: 10 in ring, 7 on mic, 17 Total
David Otunga- 1 in ring, 3 on mic, 4 Total
Dolph Ziggler- 9 in ring, 7 on mic, 16 Total
Drew McIntyre- 8 in ring, 2 on mic, 10 Total
Ezekeil Jackson- 1 in ring, 1 on mic, 2 Total
Great Khali- 0 in ring, 0 on mic, 0 Total
Heath Slater- 6 in ring, 6 on mic, 12 Total
Jack Swagger- 8 in ring, 4 on mic, 12 Total
John Cena : 8 In-Ring, 5 Mic, 13 Total 
Justin Gabriel- 7 in ring, 1 on mic, 8 Total
Kane- 7 in ring, 8.5 on mic, 15.5 Total
Kofi Kingston- 7 in ring, 6 on mic, 13 Total
Mark Henry- 5 in ring, 8 on mic, 13 Total
Mason Ryan- 1 in ring, 1 on mic, 2 Total
Miz- 5 in ring, 8.5 on mic, 13.5 Total
R-Truth- 6 in ring, 7.5 on mic, 13.5 Total
Randy Orton- 8.5 in ring, 7 on mic, 15.5 Total
Rey Mysterio- 9 in ring, 4 on mic, 13 Total
Ryback- 3 in ring, 3 on mic, 6 Total
Santino- 6 in ring, 5 on mic, 11 Total
Sheamus- 8.5 in ring, 4 on mic, 12.5 Total
Wade Barrett- 5 in ring, 9 on mic, 14 Total
Zack Ryder- 7 in ring, 5 on mic, 12 Total


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know what? Throw the list out and pretend I didn't say anything.

This was completely uncharacteristic of me to do something like that ; rank individuals off the top of my head without going in depth and doing a TON of research into this like I do with my other projects. This is the type of thing that should take a person WEEKS or MONTHS to do, not an hour , so disregard it PLZ. To say "this guy is better than that guy" is okay, but to place numbers on individuals without doing the hard research and breaking down the film is ridiculous.

I still stand on my ideas that Flair is the GOAT by far, Punk can be top 5 all time if his career is consistent enough for the next 2-4 years, Shawn Michaels is one of the best big match performers ever but his consistency is shaky, and that Foley and Flair are two of the best on the mic ever. Disregard the list, it was a stupid idea....

YEAHHH.... SOOO ANYWAYS.... I'm watching HHH-HBK from SS 02 for my project. Not gonna say what I'm giving it, but it seems to be one of the most polarizing matches ever with multiple ratings across the board ranging from *** 1/2* to *******. Thoughts on the match as a whole ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Mick Foley and HBK an "8" in the ring? SMFH. Just no. People in the business would absolutely, positively laugh out loud at the notion.
> 
> Triple H, Taker, and Punk an "8.25."?
> 
> No, just no. HBK was having decent to good singles matches from 1992-1995 when Taker was still no selling and playing "dead."


People "in the business" royally overrate HBK too. Not that doesn't matter.

Sandrone, why do you have Santino, Kofi, & R-Truth's ring work over Mark Henry's?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> People "in the business" royally overrate HBK too. Not that doesn't matter.
> 
> Sandrone, why do you have Santino, Kofi, & R-Truth's ring work over Mark Henry's?


Like who? And how did they over-rate him?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> "Pro wrestling will never be respected. No matter how many teeth I loose, no matter how many ears I loose, or NO MATTER HOW MANY BRAIN CELLS HAVE TO DIE!"


THIS is my favourite line from my favourite promo of all time, as you said gives me chills everytime I hear it. Foley GOAT of the mic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JR, Triple H, Pat Patterson, etc.

Calling him the greatest ever. That's how.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> People "in the business" royally overrate HBK too. Not that doesn't matter.
> 
> Sandrone, why do you have Santino, Kofi, & R-Truth's ring work over Mark Henry's?


Because I don't see why I'd put them under Henry. Kofi matches I'd generally prefer to Henry matches, and Truth just always strikes me as average, but it's tough to rate him. Santino's the toughest to rate because his gimmick restricts him immensely. I think I may have jumped the gun a bit on Santino and Truth, but Henry strikes me as average-below average, which puts him at a 5 on my scale. He's had some good-great matches in the last year though with Punk, Orton, and Show... so maybe I should give it some more thought. Wouldn't put him above Kofi though. Keep in mind, I'll probably change a lot of these numbers as time goes on, but generally if they're within a point of each other, I could probably swap them at some point.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I want everybody'z STARZ for HHH-HBK SS 02. Just to compare to my own (which I shall not reveal until this whole project is done  ). Had it at ******* on my very first watch... DO I FIND IT OVERRATED NOW ? CAN IT SUSTAIN ? IS IT A GREAT, BUT NOT ALL TIME CLASSIC MATCH ? 

TUNE IN NEXT WEEK, SAME :hhh TIME , SAME :hhh CHANNEL.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Summerslam 2002- ***** 3/4*

One of my favourites of all time, shawns selling of the back was patchy that's the only reason it doesn't hit 5 stars for me.
Would have to be in my top 25 matches ever from a wwe standpoint.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> JR, Triple H, Pat Patterson, etc.
> 
> Calling him the greatest ever. That's how.


Well, they all worked with eachother for years and got to see everything up close. They know more wrestling then we will ever forget. If all of them come to the same conclusion, I think it's their honest opinion.

I personally think Flair is the greatest ever. Shawn does, as well. But after Flair, HBK is up there somewhere. So, I don't know, I wouldn't say they are royally overrating him. Just my opinion.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> People "in the business" royally overrate HBK too. Not that doesn't matter.


I think Shawn will always get the overrated label from some fans because he has so many highly acclaimed performances that are bound to not come off as impressive to a segment of fans as it has for others. I truly believe there was something special he brought to his performances that just left impressions on people like very few wrestlers can. Whether Shawn was selling and bumping around the ring as a heel getting his comeuppance or a babyface in peril. The acting and facial expressions he brought in the latter years of his career were just brilliant.

And with a resume of matches/performances/in-ring moments Shawn has I don't see a problem with wrestlers in the industry calling him the best performer in WWE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK/HHH Summerslam 02- ****1/2

Gonna get to watching Taker/Lesnar No Mercy 02 tonight. Watched Unforgiven earlier in the day. Gonna watch No Mercy 03 on Friday night or Saturday probably, along with that MSG Cage match for the first time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Because I don't see why I'd put them under Henry. Kofi matches I'd generally prefer to Henry matches, and Truth just always strikes me as average, but it's tough to rate him. Santino's the toughest to rate because his gimmick restricts him immensely. I think I may have jumped the gun a bit on Santino and Truth, but Henry strikes me as average-below average, which puts him at a 5 on my scale. He's had some good-great matches in the last year though with Punk, Orton, and Show... so maybe I should give it some more thought. Wouldn't put him above Kofi though. Keep in mind, I'll probably change a lot of these numbers as time goes on, but generally if they're within a point of each other, I could probably swap them at some point.


I question it since they're 3 of the poorest workers on the WWE roster. Easily top 10 granted I'd work them into the top 5. Henry is a BOSS and a good worker to boot. Even prior to the 2011 dominance he showed his ability.




Best In The North Pole said:


> I want everybody'z STARZ for HHH-HBK SS 02. Just to compare to my own (which I shall not reveal until this whole project is done  ). Had it at ******* on my very first watch... DO I FIND IT OVERRATED NOW ? CAN IT SUSTAIN ? IS IT A GREAT, BUT NOT ALL TIME CLASSIC MATCH ?
> 
> TUNE IN NEXT WEEK, SAME :hhh TIME , SAME :hhh CHANNEL.


I don't own it so I need to rewatch for a final set rating. I think I was at ****1/2 last time. It's pretty damn stellar.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> Well, they all worked with eachother for years and got to see everything up close. They know more wrestling then we will ever forget. If all of them come to the same conclusion, I think it's their honest opinion.
> 
> I personally think Flair is the greatest ever. Shawn does, as well. But after Flair, HBK is up there somewhere. So, I don't know, I wouldn't say they are royally overrating him. Just my opinion.


I never put Shawn over to that extent. Despite the fact I think he has the most 5 star matches I've seen from WWF/WWE. I guess it ends up with me being more of a fan while he was in The Rockers than collectively as a singles worker. Plus, I'd rank underrated guys like a Dave Finlay over him. I guess that's where my point really comes from by the "royally overrated" claim.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Having a little trouble finding Taker/Lesnar No Mercy 2002. Youtube link I had from a while ago had it removed, and having trouble finding it elsewhere. #HALP


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I question it since they're 3 of the poorest workers on the WWE roster. Easily top 10 granted I'd work them into the top 5. Henry is a BOSS and a good worker to boot. Even prior to the 2011 dominance he showed his ability.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


His Rockers days? He himself would tell you, he was nowhere near the worker in the Rockers that he would be later in his career. He was a 20 year old kid in a tag team. He didn't really become an educated worker until around late '94 and early '95. That's when he took his matches to the next level. I think those guys in the company rate him that high for a specific reason. He just really was that good.

And what Clique said. Well said.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. I'm sticking with Rockers days. Got the most enjoyment from him then. Tons of legit performances. Brilliant work on a nightly basis with Marty.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Nah. I'm sticking with Rockers days. Got the most enjoyment from him then. Tons of legit performances. Brilliant work on a nightly basis with Marty.


There were some good matches with the Brainbusters and Hart Foundation. But Shawn Michaels in the Rockers wasn't capable of matches like HIAC '97 vs 'Taker, or WM25 vs Taker, SS 02 vs Hunter, 97 Mind Games vs Foley, etc. Hell, not even 1992 HBK was capable of those matches, nevermind Rockers Shawn. Two completely different workers. I'll take the post Rockers Shawn, not even really much of a comparison.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Obviously my opinion differs.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Have 8/10 HHH-HBK matches in perfect WWE-Produced DVD quality , that's why I chose this series over any other one, gave me a chance to go through my collection.

HHH-HBK from ARM 02 is up next.. I've ALWAYS been one of the biggest advocates and defenders of that match , and always had a soft spot in my heart for it, giving it **** 3/4* while others have it @ *1/2*-****  . I just love how absolutely batshit fucking insane that match is from start to finish :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Obviously my opinion differs.


That's cool. But does anyone honestly think Shawn Michaels in 1988 is capable of the performances he put on later in the 90s and 2000s? He was a kid who was receiving instruction at times from Arn & Tully, as all 3 of them have said in DVDs, even Shawn. He was still learning to a degree then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does batshit insane mean dreadfully dull?

I kid, I kid. But the match sucks, imho.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH.... How I love this Triple H King of Kings DVD. You could tell he wanted to have both a HBK and a Flair match on there (he probably instructed it) , so he got two matches that weren't on any other sets. It's like a "HISTORY OF HHH" DVD highlighting the different stages of his career.

The little sit-down segment before the match is great. HHH calls Shawn the greatest ever, before coming out and telling us how awesome the next match is and how "it's pure emotion, what our business is all about" ... HIS QUOTE NOT MINE :hhh


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Watching HBK/HHH/Benoit triple threat at Backlash '04 right now. Haven't watched this one in a year or so. What do you gives rate it? Forgot what I had it at.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> That's cool. But does anyone honestly think Shawn Michaels in 1988 is capable of the performances he put on later in the 90s and 2000s? He was a kid who was receiving instruction at times from Arn & Tully, as all 3 of them have said in DVDs, even Shawn. He was still learning to a degree then.


About the most redundant statement ever. Of course he's going to grow more as a wrestler in the latter part of his career. That's inevitable with the majority of wrestlers. Besides, I never claimed Michaels was/is capable of working main event matches at that time. Neither was Undertaker at the start. Or Triple H. I only said I preferred Michaels at that time b/c he was killing it in fantastic tag team matches and I enjoyed that the most. 

Don't let the royally overrated claim throw you off. I dig Shawn. Always have and always will. I just think the WWE crew puts him on an level over some other workers I know I personally prefer more. Which is totally understandable when you think about it.

Backlash '04 Triple Threat is one of the 5 star matches that Shawn had that made my list. I almost think I prefer it over WrestleMania. Almost.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Backlash 2004 Triple Threat : ***** 1/2*

I'm going to have this project finished by tomorrow night. Dead serious. Seriously considering an OMGMEGAPOSTZ before moving on to something else for Christmas. I wanna get this PROJECT ball rolling.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Backlash triple threat- ***** 1/2*

Almost gave this match 5 stars for simply teasing the screw job again


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> About the most redundant statement ever. Of course he's going to grow more as a wrestler in the latter part of his career. That's inevitable with the majority of wrestlers. Besides, I never claimed Michaels was/is capable of working main event matches at that time. Neither was Undertaker at the start. Or Triple H. I only said I preferred Michaels at that time b/c he was killing it in fantastic tag team matches and I enjoyed that the most.
> 
> Don't let the royally overrated claim throw you off. I dig Shawn. Always have and always will. I just think the WWE crew puts him on an level over some other workers I know I personally prefer more. Which is totally understandable when you think about it.
> 
> Backlash '04 Triple Threat is one of the 5 star matches that Shawn had that made my list. I almost think I prefer it over WrestleMania. Almost.


Cool. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Rockers. One of the best teams ever, IMO. Both of them were great. The only reason I said he got better as his career went on was because you said you thought he was better in the Rockers. I guess I can understand if you prefer his work from then over his prime stuff. But his prime stuff was so freakin' good, I just can't help but prefer that. Didn't mean to come off as redundant, that's all that I meant.

Yeah, this match is still going. So far, very, very good. The screwjob tease is a nice touch, lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Cool. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Rockers. One of the best teams ever, IMO. Both of them were great. The only reason I said he got better as his career went on was because you said you thought he was better in the Rockers. I guess I can understand if you prefer his work from then over his prime stuff. But his prime stuff was so freakin' good, I just can't help but prefer that. Didn't mean to come off as redundant, that's all that I meant.
> 
> Yeah, this match is still going. So far, very, very good.


We're clear now. It's all good, man.

Great match. All this talk is urging me to pop it in atm. I'd have to watch Foley vs Orton too. Can never skip over that classic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WATCH YOUR PUNK VS CENA MATCHES DAMNIT.

... Where are you with that anyways ? unk2 :cena2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#5 - 2/7/11.

Their 4th match was pretty :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You're almost into the REAL good shit now SONNNNN!

On a side note : I just got red repped by a guy in the unpopular opinions thread for saying that Punk is better on the mic than HHH. Here was his reasoning for the rep : "LOL Punk Fanboy. Probably haven't watched a HHH match in your life :lol" .....

I don't know about you guys... But that made my fucking NIGHT. :lol :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao 

Yeah, you damn Triple H hater. Wow. That's too ironic.

Punk/Cena 2011 matches. Now this shiz is about to get real. I know this upcoming match is short. The rest all get good time. I keep looking over at my copy of Money in the Bank 2011 right now. That review is probably going to be VERY lengthy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I would imagine it would get QUITE lengthy. My SS 02 Review is 520 words, with my Armageddon review probably longer. This shit is insane.

You're a lucky bastard though. PUNK-CENA on Raw a few weeks after Summerslam 2011 is fucking AMAZING. ****** from me, and the TVMOTY if I were to have a say in the matter. That match, + the GOAT Summerslam main event @ ***** 1/2*, and the top 10 match EVER at MITB. SON OF A BITCH.... 

Speaking of ARM 02. Pre match consisted of Flair getting ejected, taking a bump from Hebner, freaking out, and having Lawler saying "THAT'S NOT FAIR TO FLAIR" ALA Heenan 92 Rumble. AMAZING.

GOATS GONNA GOAT :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not to mention I own all of their 2011 bouts from 2/7 - 8/22 pardon Summerslam. Which I have saved via dailymotion to view. It's pretty choice. It's an obvious notion to where I rank MITB, but the rest I keep a lid on for the fact of SUSPENSE on the review. I need to blast through these just to go and see NOC already. Never seen it so that's gonna be tons of fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished my review for the Armageddon 2002 3SOH match between Triple H and Shawn Michaels. The length of the review ? 1,039 words. I'm dead fucking serious, it's funny because it's honestly the easiest review I've ever written in my entire life too. The most fun I've had reviewing a professional wrestling match because of one word. WHY. When you see my review, you'll understand.

Gonna watch/review the RAW 03 match before I go to sleep, leaving RR,BB,TT, and Tribute to the Troops for tomorrow. The whole series/series retrospective will drop in an OMGZMEGAPOST on the 14th, probably during the evening or some shit like that, because I wanna start something that I've been meaning to do for about a few months now, that I'll let you guys in on at the end of the retrospective (OHHH SECRETSSSS  ) .

This has been so much fun for me though, and I hope everybody else feels the same way about their projects. Looking forward to getting this ball rolling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have fun when I take the time to work on it. I'm rolling along although playing catch up with some PPVs I have here with me & movies. Not to mention the taken time from the weekly WWE/TNA programming. I put Puro on the back-burner momentarily. That has to pay off and I want to finish this to move onto the Rockers/Brain Busters series which I CAN'T wait for.

So pardon a busy mind getting distracted, yes, I'm having fun too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Going to start my project later tonight, which I'm pretty damn happy about :mark: Probably expecting it complete by next week or something


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rollins vs Ambrose. :mark:

Maybe you'll do what I did and cram them all in one sitting since they're so good. Haha. It can be done!


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Any European guys have experience with amerchandise? Especially the shipping/delivery time outside the UK (within Europe). Also posted this in TNA section but that is pretty dead iirc.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm really looking forward to it, seeing as the only one I've seen already is their thirty minute match and I don't mind watching it again either. Probably most looking forward to their FCW Heavyweight Championship match in June of this year, simply because they would have had almost a year to adjust more to the WWE style and develop as performers and entertainers. The thing I love about this series is that all of the matches get a good amount of time, but don't go overboard. Genuinely looking forward to it, I'm glad I chose it before anybody else.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watching them in order (specifically with the original trilogy) is AWESOME to see the progression and story grow from match 1, match 2, and eventually the lengthy match 3. You loved the III match without even seeing the original two. Trust me, watching the original two lead into the third will make you love it MORE.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'll have to watch that Rollins/Ambrose series some time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rollins/Ambrose is a great series. Downloaded a torrent with all of Ambrose's FCW matches last week :mark:.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Off XWT? I was considering downloading it, but I decided against it because I can't imagine there being that many "must see" matches, other than the Rollins series and the matches with Regal. Report back plz, Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

By the time I get around to watching them you probably won't care any more . I've had the matches for a week and only re-watched the Regal matches .

I am interested in the Sandow match though...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

British wrestling doc on BBC4 tonight @ 9pm:

Timeshift: Wrestling's golden age, Grapplers, Grunts & Grannie.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ambrose Vs Sandow - FCW 11/12/2011

15 minute title match thingy. Really fucking good. Sandow's theme in FCW was awesome. 






Both guys are heels so they don't care about being nice and shit. Sandow considers himself above Ambrose, so Ambrose starts playing with him, countering his shit and doing all the same stuff right back to him as well as screaming "I'm a god of wrestling". Ambrose is a vicious bastard, so Sandow has to up his game, and he starts with a nice sequence on the outside where he throws him into the guard rail and apron over and over then into the steps. Might be enough to stop most people, but Ambrose welcomes that kind of aggression, and SLAPS Sandow in the fact the moment he gets back up, almost like he was demanding that Sandow doesn't stop there. So Sandow knocks him off the apron into the guard rail again, then his a swinging neck breaker for the first fall! That takes up the first half of the match and I loved every second of it. Ambrose's character shines, and Sandow steps up his game and becomes the vicious bastard that you kinda NEED to be in order to stand toe to toe with Ambrose.

Finish is just incredible. Sandow plays up on the fact that Ambrose doesn't give a fuck (the commentators mention that he said that in an interview last week); he exposes a turnbuckle, then "attempts" to throw Ambrose into it but the ref keeps stopping him. After a few attempts Ambrose gets the upper hand and smashes Sandows head into it... causing a DQ and putting Sandow up 2-0 with only 30 seconds left! Ambrose realises that Sandow essentially tricked him, making him go down 2 falls with no time left to make them back. So Ambrose makes it 3-0 by smashing Sandow's face into the turnbuckle a second time! Match end, and Ambrose continues to just murder Sandow's face! Ha. Sandow thought he got the better of Ambrose, but Ambrose only cares about pain, so Sandow's game plan might have won him the match, but it cost him in the end. Regal Stretch using the 15 minute title medal thingy just to finish things off .

So yeah this is great. ***3/4, maybe ****. I dunno. I like stars and all, but fuck, I just can't place stars on certain matches these days.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I was away for a half day and as usual, a bunch of pages have come up. To catch up, I'll go on with the following.

HHH/HBK SummerSlam 02 - ****1/2
HHH/HBK/Benoit Backlash 04 - ****1/2

And I know some would rather not bring back this subject but I have to leave my opinion here before moving on regarding the greatest of all time in no specific order: (some older names like Savage are left out due to my ignorance on their greatness)

Austin (8.5 in ring, 10 on mic) - 18.5 pts
Flair (9 in ring, 10 on mic) - 19 pts
Foley (8 in ring, 10 on mic) - 18 pts
The Rock (8 in ring, 10 on mic) - 18 pts
HHH (8 in ring, 8 on mic) - 16 pts
Benoit (15 in ring, 6.5 on mic) - 21.5 pts
Jericho (8 in ring, 8 on mic) - 16 pts
HBK (9 in ring, 8 on mic) - 17 pts
Cena (8 in ring, 8.5 on mic) - 16.5 pts
Bret Hart (9 in ring, 7 on mic) - 16 pts
Angle (8.5 in ring, 8.5 on mic) - 17 pts
Eddie (9 in ring, 8.5 on mic) - 17.5 pts
Undertaker (9 in ring, 8 on mic) - 17 pts
Hogan (6.5 in ring, 7.5 on mic) - 14 pts
Mysterio (9 in ring, 6 on mic) - 15 pts
Orton (9 in ring, 7 on mic) - 16 pts

In conclusion: Benoit is the greatest of all time because total points exceeds past the limit of 20.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I was away for a half day and as usual, a bunch of pages have come up. To catch up, I'll go on with the following.
> 
> HHH/HBK SummerSlam 02 - ****1/2
> HHH/HBK/Benoit Backlash 04 - ****1/2
> ...


Fixed unk2

I know you didn't intend to say that Orton = Eddie/GOAT/Bret in the ring, but it's just like when I did it ; I couldn't find a common ground. If you review a WRESTLER, it should take you like a month of watching matches and promos to come to a conclusion. That's why I stick to rating matches, and why my "Rankings" were terrible :lol

Just up, going for a drive or some ish then coming back and watching some more HHH-HBK. What I need to know first (background research) is what you would rate the following matches

RR 04 LMS
BB 04 HIAC
TT 04
Tribute to the Troops 05

Depending how much time I get, could finish this tonight... I doubt it because I'm going out with the GF and doing Christmas shit so whatever :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Flair is a bit too limited for my taste. That's why I wont give him the full 10. But he's no doubt one of the greatest and arguably THE greatest too. I do think that I might have overrated Orton's ring abilities, though. 8.5 sounds more like it.

Now moving on, the HHH/HBK matches:

Last Man Standing (Royal Rumble 04) - *** - A huge attempt at forcing it to be OHSOEPIC. Some good spots and moments but they should have let the match work naturally rather than go over the top with how epic it's supposed to be.
Hell in a Cell (Bad Blood 04) - ** - I'll be dead before I EVEEEEEEEEEER watch this match again.  So fucking boring. Terrible feud (this rehashed one anyways) and terrible match. Worst of all, it's BORING terrible and not HUMOROUSLY bad like Steiner/Hunter.
Taboo Tuesday 04 - ***1/4 - Not really into it but the leg work is excellent. I was just a bit too indifferent to care enough.
Tribute to the Troops 05 - N/A - Haven't seen it yet.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

One of the best parts of Flair's skill as an in-ring performer is to make a talent look like gold when he would tour across the country in various territories, and in his main staple in the NWA/JCP/WCW. Consider his work with Sting, Lex Luger, Brian Pillman, Ron Garvin, Kerry Von Erich, Butch Reed, and many others and you can see how his style of working matches could be applied and formed to fit different stories for whatever wrestler Flair wrestled that evening. Flair's classics with Steamboat were vastly different from the clinics he put on with Windham or Funk or Savage or Vader. Some may view Flair's signature bumps and antics as tried or "limited" but many fans got a kick out of seeing their favorite Flair spot and many wrestlers got over that night because of it. Flair was really a master at it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Off XWT? I was considering downloading it, but I decided against it because I can't imagine there being that many "must see" matches, other than the Rollins series and the matches with Regal. Report back plz, Cal.


There's Rollins/Ambrose series and both Regal/Ambrose matches. Everything else is pretty just not interesting really. 

There's some house show stuff. There's a fatal four way with Cesaro in it. 

I haven't checked out the Ambrose/Sandow stuff though. Oh and there's the last 10 minutes of Punk/Ambrose.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I've never actually sat down and tried to statistically rank GOAT's based on a set numerical criteria. I've always just sort of listed them in my head in the order that I would imagine them to appear based on a number of factors if that makes any sense at all. I'd like to do something like that though as I reckon it could be a lot of fun. I'd consider more than just mic work and ring work though. I kinda think that you have to tbh because they are 2 completely subjective elements. I think that in order to rank people fairly, there needs to be some measure of objectivity and that's where the oh so dreaded DEM DRAWING NUMBAHS come into play lol. Like it or not, they're about the only thing that isn't mainly influenced by personal opinion. I'd also consider things like impact, over-ness, memorable moments and matches etc. Naturally, I'm appreciate of ring work otherwise I wouldn't enjoy discussing matches so much but when it comes to best total packages, being good or great in the ring alone isn't enough imo. And for the record, Punk wouldn't come within a sniff of my top 10 I'm pretty sure of that


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If we were to do an in-depth ranking system we'd have to come up with more than 2 factors (in-ring and mic skills). Impact on business, charisma, drawing power (FUCK), etc would all come into play.

edit FUCK should probably read the posts above before I post.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> If we were to do an in-depth ranking system we'd have to come up with more than 2 factors (in-ring and mic skills). Impact on business, charisma, drawing power (FUCK), etc would all come into play.
> 
> edit FUCK should probably read the posts above before I post.


Lol. Great minds think alike and all that. I do agree though. A list like that can't be decided on just 2 subjective factors. There has to be more and preferably some form of an objective standard too otherwise it's all just based on opinion, which it will be anyways with things like this but more so than usual.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Personally I don't see why you'd need to consider drawing and 'impact' when judging if wrestler A is the greatest of all time. I mean, I can appreciate its value when discussing 'the biggest/most successful wrestler' in the history of the business and there will always be those who remain convinced that being a significant draw extends into making a wrestler 'great' but to me all I consider is in ring ability & the ability to play a character (mannerisms, promos, using their charisma to magnify the character and their feuds) when considering whether someone is the 'greatest/best' wrestler of all time.

My top 10 from America would probably consist of Flair, Lawler, Funk, Hansen, Windham, Arn, Eddie, Mysterio, Steamboat & Bill Dundee. All these wrestlers are incredible talents for a variety of reasons. They're excellent in the ring, ranging from being great expressive performers and working a character like no other to being able to sell, build matches, control a crowd and inject their characters' personality into sequences to build a story and add meaning to a match. Now aside from Mysterio & Steamboat, I'd also call the rest great promo men. Some of them were purely passionate, some were able to capture a screen with their charisma and make you pay attention to them and others were just naturally gifted at perfecting a character and being a great interview. I really don't care whether they drew well or sold out arenas in their prime, its admittedly nice to know Flair and his work made a big impact nationwide in his prime and got over immensely, but to me his performances would still attain that quality whether he was wrestling in front of 000s or crowds of mid hundreds.

Don't get me wrong, drawing and impact on the profession goes a long way in ranking certain wrestlers on a level above that of their peers and certainly can be used to accurately call certain wrestlers as legends/icons of the industry. But that doesn't make them a naturally talented worker, a naturally talented performer able to take any angle/character and perfect it to get over rather than fail miserably. Eddie never drew or had the legacy to millions that someone like Hulk Hogan did, but I'd certainly have him in any 'GOAT discussion' simply because as an all round _wrestling_ talent he was incredible. Hogan certainly belongs in any discussion about legends/icons/who was the most successful wrestler in history, but I've never understood why that extends into any discussion about him being a better talent than say, Tully Blanchard.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I guess the way I look at is that drawing/impact can be used as distinguishing factors/a means of separation. In other words, take Punk and, say, HHH.

Punk: In-ring = 8, mic = 9
HHH: In-ring = 8.5, mic = 8.5

These values are strictly arbitrary, but for the sake of the example, bear with me. So, Punk and HHH, by these standards, are dead even at 17 points. This of course falls under the assumption that in-ring abilities and mic prowess hold equal weight. Now, some may argue that Punk is in fact higher up on the 'GOAT' scale (LOL @ them) than HHH, but using these standards alone, they'd be hard-pressed to make a valid arguement. However, if someone wanted to make a claim for HHH, I don't think it'd be unfair to bring up other factors such as impact and drawing (both of which go to HHH) as support.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That's sort of the point I'm making though. If you disregard all that stuff, it purely comes down to opinions. Being a _wrestler _doesn't just mean actually _wrestling_. If that was the case then there would be no need for storylines or promos or anything like that and they would just go out and have matches every night, basically what is happening now which is why the product is so shit right now lol. The whole purpose of the matches is that they're supposed to be the culmination of a feud between two characters engrossed in a storyline for a couple of weeks or for however long. Most of them anyways. Of course you get exceptions to that where great matches happen just because but pro wrestling at its core is all about the characters and the storylines as well as the matches themselves. Then there's the fact that it is an actual business as well so the money issue has to come into play as far as I'm concerned. There are great wrestlers, there are great talkers, there are great this and great that. But if we're talking overall packages then things like impact, charisma, over-ness and drawing ability are just as important as ring skills and mic skills to me. I see no reason to disregard them as criteria. 

Eddie takes a giant shit on Hogan in the ring and there's no doubt about how great he was simply as a _wrestler_. But Eddie didn't ignite the industry and become an icon like Hulk Hogan did. As much as I dislike him, I don't think it's fair to discount Hogan because he blew chunks in the ring because his impact is greater than anybody else's.

I guess it comes down to what your definition of 'great' means. Does it mean great regarding purely talent, does it mean great regarding success or does it mean some combination of the two? Who is the greatest of all time will depend on how you define the word great. For me personally, it's means more than just being great in the ring or being great on the mic. And like I said before, there really needs to be some measure of objectivity in order for a list or discussion on any topic really to be grounded and honest imo. But that's just me and obviously people are going to think differently.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I guess for me, there exists a separation between discussing who is the most successful/biggest wrestler and who is the best of all time, in terms of actual talent in the ring and as a package (performance, working a crowd, charisma to make him engaging as a wrestler/character/interview). I think you can make a good argument for someone being 'the best' by talking about their talent in the ring/on the mic and how they play a character. To me, its irrelevant if Hogan sold out arenas when discussing if he's a better talent than Eddie Guerrero.

Of course you have to have talent to be the face of a company and be marketable to a nation and get over as much as Hogan did, but that to me only enhances his standing in any discussion about him being the quintessential icon of pro wrestling. It doesn't really make him a better rounded talent than Arn Anderson, it just makes him more famous and with a wider appeal.

I guess to me, as fans we shouldn't really be analysing how much a wrestler draws to argue they're a better talent than someone else. Its nice to know some our favourites were able to transcend the business and appeal to millions, but when objectively trying to argue as to who is a better wrestler: drawing, impact and legacy are things which can be controlled by a writer giving you a great gimmick, a promoter booking you expertly and other wrestlers being able to make engaging/star making programs to make someone into a superstar. Being a great worker, taking their charisma and passion and channeling it into a character which can create engaging feuds is something the talent themselves are responsible for.

That's just the way I see it. Being the best wrestler of all time and the most successful can be easily separated into two different discussions imo, rather than extending into one. The Rock is a tremendous talent in terms of charisma and marketability, but he's nowhere near the GOAT discussion for me because its the performance of a wrestler that impresses me more. Eddie would never come close to Rock in a discussion about legacy or impact, but I can't see what Rock does that Eddie doesn't do so much better.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, obviously, we'd need to classify what the term GOAT means (another reason why that thread is so fucking hilarious - a bunch of idiots running around in circles like chickens with their heads cut off spewing random facts). There could be a strictly GOAT performer (in-ring/mic skills) category, and then an overall GOAT category that takes those other variables into account.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This all fine and dandy, having 2 separate GOAT categories but there can only be ONE greatest of all time which is where the conflict arises lol. Is it the GOAT wrestler or the GOAT superstar? Does Eddie's ring prowess get him the nod over Hogan's insane charisma? I don't know. Separating it into 2 lists obviously makes it easier to discuss similar topics but it also leaves no definitive answer which brings us back to square one lol.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, but if we don't separate it I don't see how we can come up with a list. It's like comparing apples to oranges. If someone comes up with a plausible system, great. As it stands I don't see how it'd work.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Catching up on some of the recent topics.

Don't care for Del Rio. Or Barrett. Don't think either of them are bad but I have little to no interest in them. Can only think of a handful of matches they've had that I like. 

Agree w/The Reindeer Killer about Punk/Jericho at Extreme Rules. They did some good stuff but as a whole it didn't come together as a great match to me. Their Wrestlemania bout is way better.

I'd happily call HHH/Brock a good match. Thought they did a good job of making it feel like a big time fight and the psychology was on point. I've seen it twice now and it wasn't plodding or boring to me at all which is a criticism I've heard of it on here. Doesn't come close to touching Cena/Lesnar but I don't see the point in comparing the two other than saying the Cena match is better. They're two completely different matches, as they should have been. 

Haven't given it much thought but calling Punk a top 10 guy at this stage of his career seems very premature to me. I'd put him above people like Edge and Angle in a heartbeat but he has to do more for me to talk about him in the same breath as guys like Michaels, Foley and Christian, never mind greats like Benoit, Guerrero, Austin and Hart. I'm only talking WWE here. Including other North American promotions he's nowhere near.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Which is why it's almost impossible to discuss lol. Maybe it's best if everybody just goes the subjective route and puts forward an argument as to why they've ranked people the way they have. I don't know. I don't think that sticking arbitrary numbers on guys works at all though if I'm being honest. To the HHH and Punk example, yeah, somebody might have them ranked equally when it comes to the numbers but, and I'm not just saying this because I mark for him, but I don't see how anybody could _objectively _put Punk over HHH on a GOAT list which is where my main conflict in the whole debate arises. You might personally enjoy Punk more as worker or whatever and that's fine. But I don't think there's any argument to be made for putting him above the likes of HHH or Taker or HBK or even Cena and the list goes on and on. Why? Well, that's where these objective factors start coming into play to muddle the whole thing up lol.

EDIT - Punk/Jericho ER > Punk/Jericho Mania based purely on the fact that I actually remember it and wasn't dead in my chair while it was happening lol.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I remember talking to you right after the Hunter/BROCK match took place. We were on the same page. Doesn't come close to Cena/BROCK, but why does it need to? Both matches are great, with one being clearly better than the other. Doesn't make H/BROCK bad. I loved the psychology of H literally stumbling into Lesnar's weakness (stomach). Brock's selling was fucking awesome. I seriously thought his gut was fucked.

edit @ Starbuck. Exactly. That was my point to using that example. Even if someone ranked them equally using the in-ring/mic work dichotomy, I still don't see how that same person could objectively think Punk is higher up on an all-time GOAT WWE list.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ehh, I just have zero interest in drawing and people (not you two, most of the retards in the GOAT thread) who obsess over it. To me, I don't care about drawing and selling arenas. Sure I'd hope the company I support does well business wise to continue operating, but I don't really care if a string of excellent PPVS draw less than 100,000 or a string of great RAWs don't pop more than a 2.5 rating. Its all about what's presented to me on screen and the peformance of the wrestlers that excites me. Anything else, such as crowd attendance, ratings and buyrates are just things that can make for nice reading to know a well built feud got over and was a success. To me, my stance is if I get a great feud I couldn't care less how it goes over on a mainstream level. Its probably a selfish attitude admittedly, but I'm watching wrestling as an individual hoping to get angles/matches that appeal to my tastes alone. Punk/Bryan had a horrendous build going into Over The Limit, but all I cared about was seeing how they wrestled and the match they put on. I'd sooner get more matches like that in the main event than the sort of feud which might get over more with casuals, but which ultimately will struggle to entertain me personally segment/match wise.

I just find that objectively, it should be a wrestlers' performance that earns them credit in terms of an all time great. Unless you have stock in WWE I personally don't see why ratings and buyrates matter in the grand scheme of things. I admit that I hope my favourites do well when pushed because obviously if ratings plummet they'll likely struggle to keep getting pushed, but so long as they're put in a position where they get to wrestle regularly I'll remain content about their position. Someone like Mcintyre is a great example. I'd love to see him wrestle higher up the card and be given more time/freedom to wrestle, but if they gave him a midcard title and let him be a midcard workhorse I'd still be happy he was being given attention and presented in such a way.

I should probably stop soon because honestly I don't want to get dragged into a debate about drawing. I appreciate why it matters to some, but for me its irrelevant in any argument about who is a better natural talent. It has its merit in ranking wrestlers all time by success and impact, but when you're actually concentrating on the wrestling and performance aspect, its irrelevant.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think we're stupid enough to fall into a debate about drawing lol. Or are we..... 8*D

Nah. I enjoy discussing that aspect of the wrestling business as much as everything else. Don't really know why, it just interests me. And while I do think it has its place in the GOAT discussion, I don't think it's the _only _factor to be considered and should come in above everything else. Of course the actual wrestling and individual talent of a performer comes into the discussion. It would be silly to even try to talk about this without talking about talent and ability. I guess I'd just rather have a couple of factors to consider when trying to come up with a GOAT list rather than it being based on just 2 or even 1. Having a purely ZOMG DAT DRAW based list isn't fair to the Eddie Guerrero's of the world who could wrestle circles around anybody but didn't captivate the masses on the level of others. On the same token, having a purely ZOMG DAT WRASSLIN based list isn't fair to the Hulk Hogan's of the world who actually did captivate the masses despite blowing chunks in the ring lol. I would fall somewhere in the middle when it comes to my own personal opinion which is probably why I've never truly attempted to make a list. It's just too damn hard.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Its probably a selfish attitude admittedly, but I'm watching wrestling as an individual hoping to get angles/matches that appeal to my tastes alone. Punk/Bryan had a horrendous build going into Over The Limit, but all I cared about was seeing how they wrestled and the match they put on. I'd sooner get more matches like that in the main event than the sort of feud which might get over more with casuals, but which ultimately will struggle to entertain me personally segment/match wise.


I can totally relate to this section, which brings us into a bit of a grey area. Bryan/Punk was an awesome wrestling match, admittedly. It didn't need any build whatsoever. Who is to say that it wouldn't have been even more awesome with a more intriguing build, a la Punk/Cena from MITB 2011. Bryan/Punk might be the better _wrestling_ match, but I'd be surprised if a majority of viewers didn't hold Punk/Cena in higher regard.

That being said, I understand your stance and I want to avoid turning this into a debate on drawing as much as anyone. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Drawing and money shouldn't come into conversation if were talking about the quality/importance in something in any entertainment medium.

Citizen Kane bombed at the box office and was a financial failure when it originally came out. Yet people consider the greatest movie ever made and it singlehandedly changed filmmaking forever.

Transformers 2 was a huge financial success. Yet people consider it one of the worst blockbusters ever made and did fuck all for filmmaking as a whole.

Thats why it makes me giggle that the goons over in the GOAT thread are using nothing but who drew the most money as evidence as to why they think someone is the GOAT.


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## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Yeah, I remember talking to you right after the Hunter/BROCK match took place. We were on the same page. Doesn't come close to Cena/BROCK, but why does it need to? Both matches are great, with one being clearly better than the other. Doesn't make H/BROCK bad. I loved the psychology of H literally stumbling into Lesnar's weakness (stomach). Brock's selling was fucking awesome. I seriously thought his gut was fucked.


Yeah. I wish the commentators had played up Lesnar's stomach issues more. 

Brock taking off the gloves was :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock taking off the gloves was double :mark: imo. Then he lands DAT PUNCH to the back of head. Such a badass moment. Speaking of Bork, I'm starting to wonder how the whole Heyman thing is going to come into play as we enter the RTWM though. I mean, Brock will be coming back for a match that much is for sure. Is Heyman going to stick with Punk, leave him for Brock or manage both of them at the same time?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ownage™ said:


> Yeah. I wish the commentators had played up Lesnar's stomach issues more.
> 
> Brock taking off the gloves was :mark:


The SMIRK was also awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Brock was awesome, totally exceeded my extremely low expectations (low because of Trips being in the match lol). Not as good as Brock/Cena, but still probably a top 10 match for the year which is impressive since we've had some tremendous matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't give a lick about drawing power and have no intention of looking up numbers for cards and stuff any time soon because it bores. When I rank wrestlers I rank their 'work', as in what happens bell-to-bell. But I make different 'greatest of all time lists to most people. I don't include mic work or anything else. BUT, if I were to rank the greatest wrestlers of all time, including everything and anything, of course drawing power would have to come into play. Mick Foley is a far better wrestler and mic worker than the Rock, but he wasn't as big a draw, didn't hit the same peak the Rock did, wasn't as influential, wasn't as big a star, or any of that, so I wouldn't rank Foley above the Rock on a list LIKE THAT. The Rock takes that one easily. Jerry Lawler was a better wrestler and mic worker than Hulk Hogan, but Lawler > Hogan on an 'everything and anything' list would, to be perfectly frank, be kinda silly. He's Hulk Hogan.

I would never be interested in making a list like that because I'm a match guy. I watch primarily matches and when talking 'one wrestler better than the other' I'm talking about whether they are a better worker or not. There are way, way more than one types of 'greatest of all time discussion', and I really don't care about all but one of them. 'Total package' barely even means anything to me even if I do really enjoy promos. I do enjoy reading others' thoughts and lists, but I couldn't imagine myself making one that branches outside of 'How they work a match'.

It all depends what criteria you want to use, but if you talk everything and anything then of course drawing power is a major part of that. I have just never been interested because finding out how many people came to see who has bored me more often than not. My 'greatest of all time' lists have different criteria then a lot others.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Wrestling skill is so subjective though. What if I prefer Savage's character work in his matches over say Steven Regal's technical wrestling or mat work skills? Do I rank Regal higher because he's technically the _better wrestler_? I guess it will always be a subjective discussion. An interesting discussion none-the-less.


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## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Cena-Lesnar from Extreme Rules is like a top TEN company match for me ever, so like... Obviously it's my MOTY , with Punk-Bryan KIND OF close (since it's almost ***** too believe it or not), and some others (HHH-Lesnar, HHH-Taker, Punk-Jericho WM) in the distance. FUCK. When I'm done this project I'm going to see all of this again.
> 
> In regards to Punk being better than Benoit & Guerrero in the ring ; he ISN'T. Is he THAT far off ? Nope, I really believe he isn't despite how much some people may hate that idea. If I were to say who's the better TOTAL PACKAGE of the three however ; the discussion would get really interesting between Guerrero and Punk.
> 
> ...


You need more Terry Funk in your life, trust me you won't regret it. Funk's in that all time great tier.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's it ; I HAVE to order Summerslam 2012 for DAT BORK-TRIPS MATCH.

One of my all-time dream matches, which is probably why I think it's the 3rd greatest match of the year, and above the HHH-Taker HIAC 

I LOVE Terry Funk, don't get me wrong. I've def have him up there with the GOAT if I say more of him besides his 87-present material (which is still awesome). Like I said before though, disregard those rankings entirely, it's probably the most retarded thing I've ever written... The GOAT debate is completely subjective to what an individual defines as being the GOAT. 

If I were to pick somebody to be the Michael Jordan/Wayne Gretzky of wrestling, I'd choose DA TRUE GOAT :flair3


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> HHH/Brock was awesome, totally exceeded my extremely low expectations *(low because of Trips being in the match lol). *Not as good as Brock/Cena, but still probably a top 10 match for the year which is impressive since we've had some tremendous matches.


FUCK OFF

Now that you mention it, I need to come up with a top 10 list for 2012. Barring a huge surprise this Sunday, I think it's safe to solidify my list.


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## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Bork-H was meh. I gave it about *** 1/2. A little underwhelming. Summerslam was an okay even though....even though I hate triple threats.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> FUCK OFF




Downloaded WM 28 earlier. Now I can finally watch the HIAC and Bryan/Punk OTL matches back to back to finally decide which is MOTY .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's a good idea. Two completely different matches with two completely different atmospheres. Loving the polar opposites being neck and neck for MOTY. As of now, I'm still leaning towards HIAC.

A somewhat related aside: I've seen lots of people knock Michaels' acting in HIAC. I, for one, thought it only added to the drama of the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I too thought it was great. Complete overacting no doubt, but hey, that's HBK!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brock/HHH gets *** from me. And I tried watching it a couple of weeks ago and ended stopping shortly after Brock took off the gloves. Just got way too boring for me and maybe it was because I worked a long day, but I just couldn't get into the match at all. I'll attempt another viewing of it at some point maybe next week... or within the next few months... years... I'll try to get around to it sometime this decade.

I do admit though, I still mark for Brock taking off the gloves. It's just too bad-ass for that match.

Edit: Also, I don't get the ragging on HBK's acting in the cell match. Of course for me, it always goes back to the fact 99% suck at acting outside of their one character (which even then they may be bad at), so HBK's acting didn't stick out from the pack in WWE. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't truly good, but for WWE level acting it was fine.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

it will be interesting the kind of match/approach Brock has next, of course its dependant on his opponont.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Would anybody else here seriously consider RAGING if they put Rybotch over Lesnar @ Mania ?

It would seriously be one of those things that could cause me to take an exile away from the current product.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

which HBK/Ramon match should I review next :hmm:


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Just in regards to the GOAT list discussion, and using ratings to make it objective: why would you even want your personal GOAT list to be objective? Surely subjectivity is the point?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^ Because if there is no measure of objectivity then all we're doing is discussing opinions, which isn't bad by any means, but there's nothing to hold things together because it's _all _opinion. In order to have a discussion like that you need at least some sort of factual basis to work off. Or maybe that's just my law degree kicking in lol. DAT FACTUAL BASIS 4 EVERYTHING DURR.

Thoughts on this?






From 4.00 up until around 8.30ish. Interesting stuff from Show. Just wondering if people here agree/disagree with what he's saying about 'dips' in tag matches and the like. The whole thing is actually worth a listen imo. Great interview.

Trips will eliminate Brock in the Rumble. DAT REMATCH HYPE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Would anybody else here seriously consider RAGING if they put Rybotch over Lesnar @ Mania ?


Yeah, I was furious when Cena went over him so Ryback going over would be even worse. Then again, it's all about business so I can see it happening.




KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> which HBK/Ramon match should I review next :hmm:


Which have you done so far?


edit @ Mr Hands - I think we were talking about a collective forum GOAT list based on a set of criteria. Of course your own personal list will be subjective.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If Lesnar's big Mania match is against Ryback, god help us all. Surely wwe arn't THAT fucked........are they?!

I mean, they can choose if play it right between Rock and Taker ffs. I'm not high on a Trips rematch though if im honest.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Btw, Show just called the Mania 30 main event involving :hogan. I did not just make that up lol.

SPECULATE


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

List of people who I wanna see Brock work with before he's gone for real (in order of importance to me):

1. *Sheamus* - The guy's a fucking workhorse and he's the perfect size to face Lesnar. Power vs. Power, it'd be be pretty damn awesome in my eyes. I'm imagining Lesnar taking a Brogue Kick that breaks his nose or some crazy shit like that. STIFF! Make it happen!

2. *The Undertaker* - I don't have to say anything here, do I?

3. *Triple H *- Their Summerslam match was nothing like I expected. It was good in terms of psychology and physicality but lacked in the shock factor that made the Cena match so special. I'd have no problem seeing a rematch where they just slug it out with some Attitude Era like brawling. Cena/Lesnar with a mixture of Punk/HHH.

4. *The Rock *- This is a question mark in terms of how the match would play out but it's interesting enough to make me wanna buy a PPV for it. Perhaps Mania?

*Honorable Mentions: *(these are all guys I'd like to see him go one-on-one with but realistically I don't think will ever happen due to factors such as size, their position on the card, or importance to the company)

- CM Punk
- Daniel Bryan
- Randy Orton
- Mark Henry
- Tensai


You'll notice John Cena nowhere near my list. That's based on the sole fact that their match this year was just so incredible I don't think it should ever try to be recreated or insulted by the idea of a rematch.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I wanna see Lesnar work with Undertaker, followed by Rock, and maybe Cena if he gets his win back. After that, a long way after that, maybe Ryback, and that would be it. Everyone else can fuck off.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My dream opponents for Brock from the options available are: Orton, Taker, ROCK, Sheamus and maybe Bryan.

EDIT: And of course Austin if he decides to wrestle again!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> Btw, Show just called the Mania 30 main event involving :hogan. I did not just make that up lol.
> 
> SPECULATE


Oh Jesus. 



The Sandrone said:


> I wanna see Lesnar work with Undertaker, followed by Rock, and maybe Cena if he gets his win back. After that, a long way after that, maybe Ryback, and that would be it. Everyone else can fuck off.


I would think the only real candidates are Taker/Rock/Cena/HHH/Punk. Nobody else is really on that level. Maybe Ryback.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

> _For six years WCW Monday Nitro went head-to-head with WWE Raw pulling out all the stops to gain the upper hand in the escalating Monday Night War. The place “where the big boys play” produced such a wealth of non-stop thrills action drama and controversy that we could not possibly scratch the surface in one volume. Host Diamond Dallas Page returns to present Volume 2 of the wildly successful Best of WCW Nitro series. Sports entertainment fans will relive eight more hours of the poisonous n.W.o electrifying cruiserweights and unparalleled star power that delivered an endless supply of timeless matches and moments. All the greatest WCW stars are included such as Ric Flair Hulk Hogan Sting Kevin Nash Rey Mysterio Eric Bischoff Goldberg and more. Plus check out the Nitro Girls Nitro parties WCW’s spring break bashes celebrity integration and several matches never-before-released on DVD._


Pretty cool cover.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just realized the list of DVDs that I purchased for Christmas ;

- Superstar Collection ; Randy Orton
- HIAC 12
- The Attitude Era
- RAW 1000
- Unforgiven 2007
- Survivor Series 2007
- Summerslam 2007
- No Way Out 2007
- Cyber Sunday 2007
- Royal Rumble 2004
- Royal Rumble 2008
- Wrestlemania XXIII
- Wrestlemania XXIV
- Wrestlemania XXV
- Wrestlemania XXVI
- Wrestlemania : The Complete Anthology 1-21

Still gotta cop the KOFI DVD, NWO 12, and SS 12 to complete my 12 collection. THAT'S A LOT OF FUCKING MATCHES TO WATCH. I still have this to watch in my current collection ;

- WCCW
- ECW Unreleased VOL 1
- RVD : One of a Kind

When I'm done my HHH-HBK project I'm gonna POUND these DVDS in and crank out some more reviews before Christmas... I want NOTHING left to watch in my collection come the 25th of December. So essentially, what'll be watching before Christmas (minus the second PROJECT I'll be doing  ) is 90 percent NON-WWE matches. Fucking ECW.... I had enough psychology-less wrestling from ARM 02 last night :lol ... I've said too much ! :hhh


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

BORK LASER'S best opponents from the current roster would be...

Bryan: It's lesnar as the goliath and bryan as the david. Bryan's an amazing babyface and Brock's an awesome dominant monster heel. Think Lesnar/Mysterio. Bryan can make Lesnar's offense look absolutely brutal, and Bryan's babyface comeback against lesnar would be incredible.

Taker: IT'S THE FUCKING UNDERTAKER

Sheamus: Just two big guys throwing bombs at eachother, think Sheamus/Big Show or Taker/Batista.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I would think the only real candidates are Taker/Rock/Cena/HHH/Punk. Nobody else is really on that level. Maybe Ryback.


Orton is, specially if you give Ryback a "maybe". I don't care how bad his booking has been in the past year, but Orton still has credibility and is over with the audience. Therefore, he can easily have a match with Lesnar without looking weak.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That Nitro cover looks awesome. I hope the listing is better than Vol. 1


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Yeah, I was furious when Cena went over him so Ryback going over would be even worse. Then again, it's all about business so I can see it happening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've only reviewed the MSG house show match from 1993. Other matches after that have pretty shitty quality.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nitro cover looks cool... but is filled with most of the guys that would make the match listings absolutely fucking SUCK like the first set.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

FuckChristmas said:


> Nitro cover looks cool... but is filled with most of the guys that would make the match listings absolutely fucking SUCK like the first set.


DDP matches (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*JackEvans187*, put Brock with ANY of those guys on your list and you got a *****+* match and a MOTY contender on your hands. Whatever match Lesnar wrestles @ Mania will be a Top 5 MOTY unless he faces Ryback. Remember that I said this in the future when it comes true 

My list of BROCK dream matches at this point (guys that he hasn't wrestled before) :

- Punk
- Sheamus
- Bryan
- Jericho

As long as it's not Brock-Ryback , they cant possibly fuck up his match at Mania for me. He just has such an easily adaptable style that can work with any guy. Him VS nearly anybody on the fucking roster, whether it be part-time or full time. The only guys I can see him taking on @ Mania would be Rock/Taker/Cena/Trips though. They wouldn't POSSIBLY try to fuck up what could be a GOAT PPV by having him job to Ryback.... The Goldberg comparisons would be INSANE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Set needs to be more DDP, Benoit (oh wait...), Guerrero (Eddie, not that other one. Seriously, can we have Benoit back on sets and just get rid of Chavo?)... and some others somewhere .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@ The Big show video

...

Bo fucking Dallas?

Oh Big Show. :troll


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

FluxCapacitor said:


> @ The Big show video
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Yeah. That bit made me lol. Out of all the people in NXT he had to mention Bo? Why?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> Set needs to be more DDP, Benoit (oh wait...), Guerrero (Eddie, not that other one. Seriously, can we have Benoit back on sets and just get rid of Chavo?)... and some others somewhere .


Somebody needs to kidnap whoever makes the DVDs and under gunpoint, force them to put in as much Benoit as possible. I wish I could have invisible and teleporting abilities. I would make my way to the arenas during WWE shows and mess with the production stuff and play Benoit's entrance & music as well as put out "cryptic messages" about him on the tron, lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mister Hands said:


> Just in regards to the GOAT list discussion, and using ratings to make it objective: why would you even want your personal GOAT list to be objective? Surely subjectivity is the point?





Clique said:


> Wrestling skill is so subjective though. What if I prefer Savage's character work in his matches over say Steven Regal's technical wrestling or mat work skills? Do I rank Regal higher because he's technically the _better wrestler_? I guess it will always be a subjective discussion. An interesting discussion none-the-less.


I think the subjectivity is what makes matches and workers fun to talk about. Drawing power is largely fact. It's a fact that Steve Austin drew more than Fit Finlay, but I won't really upright say it's a fact that Bob Backlund is a better wrestler/worker than Kurt Angle, even if I believe it. I mean I wouldn't have an opinion unless I thought there was truth to it, but I can't look at someone who says Angle > Backlund and say 'wrong, here are the numbers'. You can kind of do that drawing power. It's based off of fact and that is kind of boring. I can't look at Buddy Rose's drawing power in Portland and decide whether I like it or not because there's nothing to like or dislike. I can look at Buddy Rose's matches and promos and decide whether I like them or not. Drawing power factors for greatest, but not for favourites.

It also determines how you view 'wrestler'. My idea of 'wrestler/worker' isn't limited to technical skill, it's overall how they perform in a match. Whether they're working mostly shtick, working the mat, brawling, primarily in the air or working the big time main event of WrestleMania, they're still 'wrestling' to me. I think Randy Savage is a better wrestler than Bryan Danielson, but isn't the better mat/'technical' wrestler. The same way Rey Msyterio is a better wrestler than Mick Foley but isn't as good a brawler as Mick. 

But if someone DID think Rey was a better brawler than Mick, it can be talked about. Why is Rey better? Examples of Rey being better? What does Rey better in brawls than Foley? This can be argued. Drawing isn't exactly set in stone, but there are numbers and figures, and subjectivity is mostly thrown out of the window. There's little room for argument. The Rock drew more than Sting. I can't argue against that. "Why did the Rock draw more" can't really be asked, can it? As in there's nothing anyone can say to show Sting drew more fans and sold more whatever because it just isn't true. You can't subjectively say Sting's merchandise moved better than the Rock's". I can argue Sting was a far better worker, and "why was Sting a better worker?" can be asked. You CAN subjectively say Sting has better matches and performances.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton is, specially if you give Ryback a "maybe". I don't care how bad his booking has been in the past year, but Orton still has credibility and is over with the audience. Therefore, he can easily have a match with Lesnar without looking weak.


Only problem is given Orton's injury-prone nature, Brock's offense might literally break Orton in half... :troll

Now that someone has mentioned it, I'd be way down for BROCK/Bryan.




KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> I've only reviewed the MSG house show match from 1993. Other matches after that have pretty shitty quality.


Ladder matches plz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan beat Brock on PPV at SummerSlam in my Universe on WWE '13 .

Would love to see the match for real. Would kinda be like Benoit Vs Lesnar II.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Only problem is given Orton's injury-prone nature, Brock's offense might literally break Orton in half... :troll
> 
> Now that someone has mentioned it, I'd be way down for BROCK/Bryan.
> 
> ...


I'll start with the house show ladder match, then mania 10, then summerslam. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They'd need to drop the comedy gimmick to make it believable, as BROCK always brings a sense of reality to his matches, especially 2012's version of Lesnar. I'm hoping this current feud w/The Shield will help that transition, whether it's a long shot for Bryan to face Lesnar or not.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*2001 Royal Rumble*

*WWF Tag Team Championship: Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz*
The match followed the tag formula pretty much but was still has awesome action, good psychology, nice wrestling, frequent tags. The fake hot tag was GREAT, along with E&C's heel tactics and bumping. Hot opener for the crowd. ***1/2

*ladder match for the WWF Intercontinental Championship: Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho*
This still holds up as one of the all time CLASSICS, Some of the best innovative offense you`ll ever see with the ladder mixed with the best bumping in my opinion. Just straight balls-to-the-wall action and from bell to bell and I know people shit on the ending cause both guys are overselling but C'MON they beat the shit out of each other with every moves being more violent than the last nothing wrong with selling huge bumps, this is not the indies. ****3/4

Yeah i didn't watch Chyna/Ivory

*WWF Heavyweight Championship: Kurt Angle (w/Trish Stratus) vs. Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley)*
This was allot better than i remembered it being, but it took a while to really get going HHH's legwork was pretty damn good just a shame Angle no solid it Same goes for the Arm work Angle did to HHH. There are some issues I wish could have been changed. Hunter randomly low blows Angle to get him down from the middle rope in the middle of the match. The ref randomly looks away at the very moment it happens. If that wasn't bad enough, the commentators can't understand why the ref didn't DQ Hunter when it happened right in front of him. It's a stupid moment made worse by the commentators. And the Steph/Trish catfight was legit 3/5 minutes long C'MON. ***1/2 Overbooking stupidity and crowd apathy aside, this was much better worked than the Unforgiven match.

*Rumble Match*
As many of you know i really don't rate battle royals, mainly cause they don't tell stories and stuff like that but one in a while a Rumble match has all of those thing and this was one of them. This had some comedy stuff with Drew Carey and ****** Tonk Man, which as cheesy as they were i enjoyed it. 3 pretty cool returns aswell Haku, The ****** Tonk Man and The Big Show. They even spotlighted the Hardcore division with Snow, Raven, KANE and a few other having some nice interactions. But after that this got REAL cause Rock came out and things kicked into another gear. They also used the Rumble to take HHH/Austins feud to another level, as Austin comes out HHH attacks him and busts him open so it looks like Austin has no chance, just to come back and win it. JR putting Austin's heart and willingness to win never gets boring. But with that being said KANE was the MVP of this match. Seriously KANE was in '97-98 mode and dominated any and everyone that came into the match i think he was in the match for like 56-58 minutes and it's the best he's ever looked. ****1/2 - ****3/4

Super fun PPV


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with the 14/10/05 Smackdown episode and there were two quality matches to get out of it.

Booker T vs Christian vs JBL vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/4
Eddie Guerrero vs Randy Orton - ***1/4

The latter would have been such an awesome program and in a lengthier PPV match. Sucks that Eddie had to leave this world so soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ANOTHER BEST OF NITRO SET? :mark:

When does it drop? b/c I'll gladly hold off to get it as a Christmas present.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> ANOTHER BEST OF NITRO SET? :mark:
> 
> When does it drop? b/c I'll gladly hold off to get it as a Christmas present.


Not until 2/12/13. I'm getting that for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> ANOTHER BEST OF NITRO SET? :mark:
> 
> When does it drop? b/c I'll gladly hold off to get it as a Christmas present.


Feb 12 in the US.

Hope us Europeans get it not long after...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Don't think Lesnar/Danielson would work at all tbh. Brock absolutely destroyed Cena and beat HHH despite Trips finding a ***** in his armor. Bryan just wouldn't look like a threat to him in anyway whatsoever. The only guys in the company suitable to pair him with are Taker, Punk, Orton and maybe Sheamus.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's why I was saying they'd have a long way to go to turn Bryan's current character around in time for a bigtime match like that. As of now, it's just not believable. I think the match itself would be great, but the build would be awkward unless there was a major character tweak.

In all honesty, the David vs. Goliath dichotomy works because David doesn't pose himelf as a threat. That's why Mysterio/Lesnar was great. Of course Bryan doesn't physically appear to be a threat, but there are other ways to make him a credible opponent. That being said, I still don't see it happening. IWC dream, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If they were going to do Lesnar v Danielson it would have to be the match where they make Danielson.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Not until 2/12/13. I'm getting that for sure.





zep81 said:


> Feb 12 in the US.
> 
> Hope us Europeans get it not long after...


Thanks. It appears I'll have to wait a bit. Oh well. I'll definitely score it ASAP.

BROCK vs Danielson is something I'd kill to see. I say this ignoring current WWE booking. Purely from a dream match standpoint where Bryan Danielson had much more of a chance.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Pre-UFC Brock is a completely different Brock. He's more than just a 'WWE monster' in his current role.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HE'S AN ASS KICKER


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Seriously, ranking GOAT based on a point system? A point system?

And as a one poster pointed out, wrestling skills is subjective. Someone may say Daniel Bryan is the best wrestler in the WWE because he's the submission specialist. I say John Cena is the best wrestler in the company cause he is the best psychologist. For me psychology>technical ability.

That's why I don't have a systematic way of ranking the best. As a matter of fact, I don't even rank wrestlers. To me if I find they're great, they are great. If I find they suck, they suck. Of the greats some I may have more preference for but the idea of ranking wrestlers is just stupid to me. 

Especially using a stupid point system for crying out loud!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Best In The North Pole said:


> I'd argue that Punk's hottest streak of his career was hotter than just about 99.9 percent of every WWE superstars streak in history, in terms of match quality + promo quality + hype + overall interest from the fans , Punk's hottest streak > Cena/HHH/HBK/Orton (well, no contest there ) , etc.


I was just browsing back there to find the clip of H/Flair 06 for my series, just that and the 07 match left to watch, and came across this little nugget? Really? HHH in 00, Cena in 05, Orton in 09 are all more than debatable when it comes to Punk 11 which only really lasted for 3 weeks lol. If that's what you're saying, 1 promo and 1 match then fair enough but the night he returned and we got the duelling entrance themes, well, it marked the beginning of the end as far as a 'hot streak' goes. I'll give you Shawn though, he never really had a hot streak per se. HHH in 00 speaks for itself in terms of match quality, promos, hype and fan interest. Cena in 05 ticks everything bar match quality which he quickly made up for in the years to follow. Orton in 09 ticks 2 or 3 of the boxes depending on how you look at it. From Jan to around the Summer he was the hottest thing going by quite a distance, Jan to April/March at the least.

Just saying lol. Besides, you put forward the argument and here's your counter. Outside of MITB and I'd even stretch to Summerslam 11, Punk's hot streak quickly fizzled out and he took a backseat to all the bigger names. 

Just finished H/Flair LMS, Survivor Series. DAT SCREWDRIVER.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> HE'S AN ASS KICKER


BROCK


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd watch HBK's 96 over Punk's 11 any day.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm not even talking wrestlers good/best years or anything like that. I'm talking hot streaks which was the point KOK was making.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well, for me Punk's "hot streak" began with the original pipe bomb and ended at MITB, so it lasted all of like 2-3 weeks?

He returned wayyyy too early w/new music and was never the same.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn in '96 was his hot streak. Don't know how that can be denied. If I had to line one up next to Punk that I personally enjoyed, it would be Shawn's.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That's my point lol.

If we're talking just a general run of good form as a hot streak then yeah, I get where the argument is coming from. But under the criteria KOK listed, I don't see it tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

From an entertainment standpoint, I might choose Shawn's 97 over anything just because of my fondness for prick/cocaine-fiend HBK.

edit I guess you threw me off when you said "I'll give you Shawn," meaning you were conceding the fact that Punk's hot streak in 11 > any hot streak HBK has had. If I'm misconstruing that, my bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn in '97 is a lock as far as entertainment goes.

COKE


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> From an entertainment standpoint, I might choose Shawn's 97 over anything just because of my fondness for prick/cocaine-fiend HBK.
> 
> edit I guess you threw me off when you said "I'll give you Shawn," meaning you were conceding the fact that Punk's hot streak in 11 > any hot streak HBK has had. If I'm misconstruing that, my bad.


No. I was going off the criteria listed by KOK. Match quality/promo quality/hype/fan interest. You can have a run of great form with great matches etc but if it happens in the midcard without much hype or fan interest then it wouldn't meet that particular criteria if that makes sense.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I understand. Not sure why he's saying Punk's hot streak > those of HBK/HHH/Cena if that's the criteria being used.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c of fan interest. He's clearly more invested into the Punk hot streak than he was any of the previous.

I can buy that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I thought he meant the general fan interest, not just personal. Makes much more sense now.

Wasn't trying to be a prick btw


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fan interest in general or his own personal interest as a fan lol? There is a difference. If it's the latter then yeah, why the hell not. But if its the former, well, it's very debatable tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lol exactly. I'm all turned around now.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Does anyone else agree that the Orton V McMahon family feud is one of the most overrated and stupid story lines in the PG era.

So Orton punts Vince. The segment had great heat and all was fine. Then they have the 40 year old, podgy non wrestler Shane McMahon single handidly beat up all of Legacy the next Raw making them all look like geeks, totally making the storyline non believable and taking away the heat Orton had on him.

Then theres other stupid shit like HHH breaking into Ortons home and basically getting his revenge, which cripples the hype of seeing HHH finally getting his hands on Orton at WM because, well, he already made him pay.

Then theres other cartoon shit like HHH chasing Orton around the arena with a big hammer which made it look like some goofy Loony Tunes shit and not the heated rivalry they were going for. 

And theres the awful WM main event match they had with HHH getting revenge.... again while handicapping what could of been the biggest mega heel in Raw history.

Silly storyline is silly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fan meaning "him". I can't speak for every fan nor will I ever try.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, didn't care for it at all. To be honest, I haven't cared for an Orton storyline since 2004.

edit I know, Cody. I think Starbuck and I were under the impression KOK was referring to general fan interest, making his assumption of Punk > HHH/HBK/Cena a little puzzling. If it is in fact personal preference, then there's nothing to say.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Has there been any other great story lines in the PG era other than Jericho V HBK, Taker V HBK and the Summer of Punk (before it became the autumn of HHH and Nash)?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BALLOONS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd only probably be able to compare Punk if I threw in his indie career. Which, wouldn't make much of a difference since the majority of wrestling fans would claim WWE accomplishments > majority of indie ones.

He's still my favorite either way.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I thought HHH/Taker this year was done really well. Jericho/Punk felt too forced. I wasn't that into it. Rock/Cena was about 11.5 months too long. Shield debut is progressing likely. Hopefully they don't fuck that up. Brock's return was great until he lost his first match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

For sure. If I thought he meant his own personal preference I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place lol. 

Orton/Trips/McMahons was great and showed that WWE can do edgy within the confines of PG. Was it over the top? Of course but I still enjoyed the hell out of it as a feud. Every week they were doing more crazy shit. Was great. I'm talking purely in terms of storyline here. Obviously the matches left a lot to be desired. I definitely have it ranked as one of the top storylines of the PG era if I' being honest. We don't really see anything like that anymore and Orton's character portrayal was top notch all the way. One of my favourite heel characters ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Does anyone else agree that the Orton V McMahon family feud is one of the most overrated and stupid story lines in the PG era.
> 
> So Orton punts Vince. The segment had great heat and all was fine. Then they have the 40 year old, podgy non wrestler Shane McMahon single handidly beat up all of Legacy the next Raw making them all look like geeks, totally making the storyline non believable and taking away the heat Orton had on him.
> 
> ...


They made a lot of stupid decisions to say the least. As you pointed out, Orton being beat at WM (thus killing his chance of becoming a bigger star and mega heel) as well as Shane being made to look so dominant with the stupid air punching are just some of the problems. But I think it was great otherwise. The involvement of Stephanie also made it feel a lot more intense and heated as did the home invasion which I find to be one of the funniest things ever. And let's be honest, HHH didn't really make Orton "pay" in that segment since police came and took him almost as soon as he was able to start his beatdown on Orton.

And even though their WM match was underwhelming, I'm satisfied with it because Orton got his well deserved accomplishment of closing a Wrestlemania show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton/Triple H beatdown in the house is still one of the greatest moments I've seen :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Only part of that storyline I enjoyed was Orton owning Steph then kissing her in front of HHH :lmao


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> For sure. If I thought he meant his own personal preference I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place lol.
> 
> Orton/Trips/McMahons was great and showed that WWE can do edgy within the confines of PG. Was it over the top? Of course but I still enjoyed the hell out of it as a feud. Every week they were doing more crazy shit. Was great. I'm talking purely in terms of storyline here. Obviously the matches left a lot to be desired. I definitely have it ranked as one of the top storylines of the PG era if I' being honest. We don't really see anything like that anymore and Orton's character portrayal was top notch all the way. One of my favourite heel characters ever.


Couldn't get into it tbh.

Too much Loony Tune shit for a supposed heated blood feud. And the podgy, 40 year old non wrestler Shane McMahon taking out all of Legacy with his air punches of doom killed all the interest I had following Orton punting Vince angle the week before.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Orton/Triple H beatdown in the house is still one of the greatest moments I've seen :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Only part of that storyline I enjoyed was Orton owning Steph then kissing her in front of HHH :lmao


RAPE?

Orton was the only reason my interest peaked for it. Only b/c it was so over the top. WrestleMania was TRASH though.

EDIT ~ Touche, Kenny.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shane's air punches are :lmao

Great PG Era programs for me:

Ric Flair's retirement story arc
HBK/Jericho
HBK/Taker
Cena/Batista
Punk/Hardy
HHH/Hardy
Orton/McMahons/HHH
Punk Pre-MITB
HHH/Taker
Taker's entire Mania 25 to 28 story arc as a whole
The Nexus (before they fucked it up)
Brock Lesnar (before he lost to :cena2)
JBL/HBK

I'm probably alone on that last one but I loved it with the whole money thing and HBK having to work for JBL lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Orton losing that match was trash.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I thought HHH/Taker this year was done really well. Jericho/Punk felt too forced. I wasn't that into it. Rock/Cena was about 11.5 months too long. Shield debut is progressing likely. Hopefully they don't fuck that up. Brock's return was great until he lost his first match.


HHH V Taker from the year peaked too early imo.

The promo where HHH agreed to face him was great. Then the next few weeks the three of them (HHH/HBK/Taker) really had nothing new to say and were just going in circles.

Besides from a few great promos the Jericho/Punk angle just evolved into something completely out of left field and unnaturally so.
They should of just stayed with the whole "who's the best int he world"gig instead of the whole CM Drunk deal.

The Rock/Cena feud was a complete joke tbh.

Brocks return was really good, but then Cena happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> Orton losing that match was trash.


Agreed.

I'm the only guy who didn't think losing to Cena hurt Brock. I wanted Brock to win, but as I've stated about 100 times over...blame Rocky. Brock beat Triple H in the Summer. It evened out for me. Especially when Brock lost to the guy I like and beat the guy I dislike.

JBL vs Shawn was such a bad program. I hated it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When did WWE go PG? I thought Flair/HBK was before that. If not, then Flair's retirement angle DEFINITELY belongs.

I completely forgot about Shane's phantom punches. :lmao Someone PLEASE link a vid to that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Another decent mention IMO for best PG era storylines was Taker/Kane 2010 up until Bearer turned on Taker. Loved everything with Kanes promosabout finding out who did it to Taker coming back to Kane always getting the better of Taker and Taker being weakened until Bearer came back. Good shit IMO.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I hated that Brock lost to Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I didn't like the build-up for either Taker/HHH match. They kept repeating the same shit on a weekly basis.

WM27 went
HHH: "If I can't end the streak, I'll die trying"
Taker: "Several have tried but all failed at ending the streak"

WM28 went
HHH: "You want it? You got it! AT HELL IN A CELL!"
Taker: "I was not the last man standing last year, so I have to redeem myself this year"
HBK: "I have the end of an era in the palm of my hands"

I love the Undertaker but I can't say I was pissed off about the "What" chants as some others were. He was delivering those slow mo promos and it was just a snoozefest. In retrospect, fuck those disrespectful fans, though. Taker should get nothing but respect.

EDIT: The big 9k!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> I hated that Brock lost to Cena.


Same here. One of two match finishes in company history that make me cringe when I watch them.

I think I literally gasped, "Oh, not again" when Cena AA'd Lesnar on the steps.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

WWE fucked up everything with the Nexus the week after they debuted

So The Nexus invade Raw. Then the next week they come through the crowd in WRESTLING ATTIRE and just stand in the ring with a live mic because the guys in the production truck would just assist the people who don't work in their company to take over their show. Security don't give a shit either for some reason either. So the aura of these people are outsiders and invaders is completely killed and now they just seven geeks that are apart of the show.

WWE just fuck up everything as fast as they can.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I remember everybody freaking out at the prospect of JBL/Taker or God forbid.....KOZLOV/TAKER!!!!! 

The HHH/HBK promo this year was fantastic. I'm talking about the first one they had where HBK tried to convince HHH to take the match. Shawn's troll smile in their final promo is GOAT. "You know how I told you, Shawn was better? He is." :troll

Cena beating Brock is unforgivable and I'll never get over it lol. Horrible call. 

Jericho/Punk showed signs of greatness with that one promo but then it all went to shit. Why they ever thought all that drinking BS was a good idea I'll never know. Stupid feud.

Rock/Cena was just disappoint on so many levels. Looks like Rock/Punk is set to go down the same road and all. Oh Goody.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Same here. One of two match finishes in company history that make me cringe when I watch them.


What was the other one?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> I remember everybody freaking out at the prospect of JBL/Taker or God forbid.....KOZLOV/TAKER!!!!!


HHH/Kozlov was bad enough. 



> The HHH/HBK promo this year was fantastic. I'm talking about the first one they had where HBK tried to convince HHH to take the match. Shawn's troll smile in their final promo is GOAT. "You know how I told you, Shawn was better? He is." :troll


HBK has some of the best facial expressions in the history of the company. Pure gold.



> Cena beating Brock is unforgivable and I'll never get over it lol. Horrible call.


Agreed 100%.



> Jericho/Punk showed signs of greatness with that one promo but then it all went to shit. Why they ever thought all that drinking BS was a good idea I'll never know. Stupid feud.


Lawler/Jake Roberts did this much better in 96.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Another decent mention IMO for best PG era storylines was Taker/Kane 2010 up until Bearer turned on Taker. Loved everything with Kanes promosabout finding out who did it to Taker coming back to Kane always getting the better of Taker and Taker being weakened until Bearer came back. Good shit IMO.


MY BROTHER.

Kane was the king on those promos.



The Reindeer Killer said:


> When did WWE go PG? I thought Flair/HBK was before that. If not, then Flair's retirement angle DEFINITELY belongs.


Mid 2008. Believe right around the time of GAB '08.



SANTA GAME said:


> Jericho/Punk showed signs of greatness with that one promo but then it all went to shit. Why they ever thought all that drinking BS was a good idea I'll never know. Stupid feud.


The whole program wasn't stupid, imo. Only the stuff with the booze on that episode of RAW. So bad. Felt like a cheap rehash of a program back in ROH circa 2003. Only it never got that dumb.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> When did WWE go PG? I thought Flair/HBK was before that.


They went PG in summer 2008, which means after Flair/HBK and during HBK/Y2J.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> What was the other one?


Mania 22 main event.

:lmao @ that video.

edit Ok, that's what I thought. The Flair retirement angle was before they went PG.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Great way to kill a heels heat.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I posted the phantom punches up there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Mania 22 main event.
> 
> :lmao @ that video.
> 
> edit Ok, that's what I thought. The Flair retirement angle was before they went PG.


WrestleMania 22? aka the greatest moment ever? I was one joyous lad.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Don't get me started, Cody. 

Mania 23 pissed me off, too, but I felt at that point in their careers if they put Cena over HHH, HBK had no chance of winning.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I remember the crowd reaction to it. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They shat all over it. As did I.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Don't get me started, Cody.
> 
> Mania 23 pissed me off, too, but I felt at that point in their careers if they put Cena over HHH, HBK had no chance of winning.


:mark: 

@ WM 23 too. Cena retains PLUS Undertaker wins in what is seriously the best moment ever. God damn I still get goosebumps every time. That crowd was 100% pro-Taker. Brilliant.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FUCK, I'm angry now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> FUCK, I'm angry now.












Here's some more just for your pleasure. :troll


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That made up for Sheamus losing. 

JOHN-BOY


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hate you all. Forgot he made him tap again :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was their last interaction too. CENA WINS. 

~!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao

Also, watched Ramon/HBK from WM10 again, still **** 1/2

So Cody's a Cena fanboy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some random thoughts on what has been said over the last few pages:

HHH/Orton/McMahon angle at the time I was into, but looking back it was retarded in a lot of places . WM match was dreadful. Made sense for HHH to get the win, but Orton kinda needed it.

Undertaker/Kane angle in 2010 was great until like someone said, Bearer came back and turned on Undertaker. HIAC finish was fucking dreadful. Their first match (NHB?) was a great brawl... then they went to shit, then Undertaker got injured and the angle got mercifully cut short.

Undertaker/HHH WM angles... I liked them, but have to agree they were doing the same promos most of the time. Still GOOD promos, but they were the same for the most part. Staredown on 2/21/11 was epic. Crowd were fucking eating it up and they didn't say a word. Ain't many guys left that can do that. Some can do it during matches, but a whole fucking segment?

JBL/HBK angle was awesome. Loved the Cena/HBK Raw match before the RR. Loved the JBL/Cena match at the RR, and HBK superkicking the fuck out of both of them was great. I remember myself and everyone else being terrified that the blowoff was gonna be at WM . Thank fuck for that! Enjoyed their... NWO (was it still called NWO at this point?) match together too. Then HBK coming out and being "free" again and wanting to challenge Undertaker was a great way to set things going after Undertaker kept showing up backstage with HBK.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH putting over Benoit, Batista and Cena at consecutive Manias was


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I also liked the HBK/JBL feud.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, made three guys into superstars in consecutive years. FUCK OFF to anyone who still gives him shit for burying everyone. He jobbed to Batista three PPVs in a row.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Yeah, made three guys into superstars in consecutive years. FUCK OFF to anyone who still gives him shit for burying everyone. He jobbed to Batista three PPVs in a row.


* ratings for the HHH/Batista series?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

JBL/HBK was also stupid.

The multiple time Champion/WM maineventer ran out of money because A. He's a dick who pissed all his money away or B. the storyline is written by monkey men who don't think logically when writing there shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> :lmao
> 
> Also, watched Ramon/HBK from WM10 again, still **** 1/2
> 
> So Cody's a Cena fanboy.


Circa 2001.

I remember the build for Game vs Batista. I was so emotionally unattached, haha.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I was ecstatic when Batista powebombed HHH through the table. I marked. I was about 13 or so.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> JBL/HBK was also stupid.
> 
> The multiple time Champion/WM maineventer ran out of money because A. He's a dick who pissed all his money away or B. the storyline is written by monkey men who don't think logically when writing there shit.


The story was that he's invested his money in stuff that fucked up with the economy falling on its arse.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> * ratings for the HHH/Batista series?


To be brutally honest I haven't seen the WM and Backlash matches since they happened because I remember them being kinda mediocre. I think they were something like **1/2 for Mania and *** for Backlash? I've been meaning to watch the trilogy again so I'll see if they still hold up. HIAC was fucking amazing, though, and sold me on Batista as a main eventer. ****3/4 for that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash match is tremendous... until Batista kills it at the end. No sells the back work... which was essentially the entire match up to that point...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I need to rewatch it soon then. I don't remember that at all.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Batista Bomb on the steps. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL/HBK story had legs. I simply didn't care/enjoy it pardon the Cena/HBK match we got on RAW.

Here is my ratings on Triple H vs Batista for the hell of it. (@ Kenny)

_I _~ **
_II_ ~ **1/4
_III_ ~ ****1/2

I don't know what happened, but their final bout turned into one of the best, and a top 5 personal favorite, Hell in a Cell matches ever. It's GRAND.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> The story was that he's invested his money in stuff that fucked up with the economy falling on its arse.


But he was still wrestling on television for the biggest wrestling company in America still getting paid a lot. 

Why couldn't he ask for money from HHH or somebody. Why was he willing to be JBL's slave as soon as he could?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> Batista Bomb on the steps. :mark:


They were NOT holding back on those barbed wire chair shots, either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never said it was perfect . Wasn't HHH on SD around this time? No way he could have contacted HHH :side: .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> JBL/HBK story had legs. I simply didn't care/enjoy it pardon the Cena/HBK match we got on RAW.
> 
> Here is my ratings on Triple H vs Batista for the hell of it. (@ Kenny)
> 
> ...


I'd agree with these, but possibly another 1/2 for the first two matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Barbed wire steel chair to the face of Game = epic.

the blood spot when it shoots out of his mouth after catching the sledgehammer in the face OWNS too. I love everything about that match.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> Never said it was perfect . Wasn't HHH on SD around this time? No way he could have contacted HHH :side: .


The same PPV HBK agreed to be be JBl's bitch, HHH was wrestling in the main event. Who seemingly didn't care that his best friend became a slave earlier in the night.

Lol WWE.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

There's a part during the end of that WM23 match when they do close ups of the crowd and you can see a ton of people walking out :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Barbed wire steel chair to the face of Game = epic.
> 
> the blood spot when it shoots out of his mouth after catching the sledgehammer in the face OWNS too. I love everything about that match.


See? HE'S FUCKING AWESOME. QUIT HATING.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Shawn in '97 is a lock as far as entertainment goes.
> 
> COKE


LOL. Well done.

EDIT: I hated the HBK/JBL feud, too. Made no sense whatsoever and was extremely corny. Absolutely hated it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> The same PPV HBK agreed to be be JBl's bitch, HHH was wrestling in the main event. Who seemingly didn't care that his best friend became a slave earlier in the night.
> 
> Lol WWE.


I think we get it.



The Reindeer Killer said:


> See? HE'S FUCKING AWESOME. QUIT HATING.


I'll give him credit where it's due. DUR GAME.

That was the only Batista match on PPV I recall liking in 2005. Credit goes to H. (Rumble '05 doesn't count)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who else did he face in 05? JBL, Eddie... uhhh?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

nobody watching tna?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> Who else did he face in 05? JBL, Eddie... uhhh?


Kane & Big Show @ Armageddon '05.

Only match I liked was Triple H vs Batista III.

First two matches were blah, I HATE vs JBL @ GAB, Summerslam is decent, & Eddie did his best @ No Mercy, but it was still only decent for me.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I liked the little Eddie/Batista fued. RIP


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Segments made me laugh. Such as when Eddie got probed by the pseudo-**** doctor. Followed by Eddie walking out to the ring while wrenching in pain.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Ahhh Eddie. He was going to become World Champ too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

at WrestleMania 22.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I thought it was going to be at a Smackdown taping.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Longest plan I heard was that the treatment Rey got was in line for Eddie.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> I thought it was going to be at a Smackdown taping.


Apparently he was going to get the belt in a triple threat with Batista and Orton, but turned it down and said to give it to Orton as he would benefit more from the title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie was such a pro.

Didn't he only lose to JBL b/c he decided to let his championship reign end early? Could have sworn I heard/read that.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah I heard that aswell.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> at WrestleMania 22.


Worst PPV ever :side:  

(Still bitter)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Must suck for people whose favourites lose at WM. UNDERTAKER FTW .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao, for the 2nd time today, FUCK OFF!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RATINGZ FROM DA LAST FEW PAGES

WM XXI (Trips vs Batista) : *****
BL 05 : **** 3/4*
VEN 05 : ***** 3/4 (MOTY)*

LOVED this series. Wrestlemania was a bit blah.... But Backlash and the whole "Pedigree" storyline was just BOSS.

In regards to the whole issue regarding Punk being a top 10 GOAT, I forgot to throw in my original post that this was all opinionated and none of this is based on what the general public or internet public believes. Fuck, Punk isn't top 50 for alot of people, let alone top 10. I'm willing to bet by the end of his career though, he'll be rated as a top 20-30 great, as WWE seems to really love his presence in the company. I completely understand that Punk isn't really for everybody (besides*Choke2Death*, he loves him some PUNK) , and that a TON of people will go down in history as better than him. It's 100 percent opinion and I thought I should have cleared that up a little better 

In terms of Punk at his hottest (regardless of how long it lasted) , I still believe that he had more buzz and hype around him from pipe bomb-summerslam 2011 than Cena/HHH/HBK/Orton have had in their careers. I mean, this shit was on News Stations around here.... That's UNHEARD of nowadays. I can't think of one thing that Trips/Cena/HBK/Orton did that outside and even INSIDE the general wrestling fan base that generated the most hype. Almost in a sense that people never said "DID YOU SEE WHAT JOHN CENA DID ON RAW? HOLY SHIT WE HAVE TO SEE THIS?" as much as they were hyping the MITB 2011 storyline and the "pipe bomb". This is coming from somebody who likes Hunter MUCH more than Punk too, trust me. I'm also a fan of the other three I listed, it's just the buzz around MITB 11 and how many people I know personally who got back into the product because of it is ridiculously insane.

Trips is 8-8 @ Mania, but besides his first match he's never been under .500 , which is why he needs to get DAT WIN BACK over whoever he faces at Mania this year. He better compete, or I'll cry for days more than likely.

ANYWAYS... HOW'S EVERYONE'S PROJECTS BEEN COMING ALONG ?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Batista/Trips series:

WM - ***1/4
BL - ***1/2 (haven't seen in ages though)
Ven - ****1/2

Considering that I really enjoyed the feud, I was a little more invested in the first part of the series.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Best In The North Pole said:


> RATINGZ FROM DA LAST FEW PAGES
> 
> WM XXI (Trips vs Batista) : *****
> BL 05 : **** 3/4*
> ...


TRIPS/Batista Ratings

WM **3/4
BL ***1/4
Ven ****1/2

To pile onto the punk point, I've never personally been so excited about a time period in wrestling since the Summer of Punk in 2011. The buzz around the product was something I hadn't seen in years. Punk was everywhere, it was the hottest storyline the WWE has had in years and of course they fucked it up.

I hate that it had to turn into HHH/Nash. The storyline should have gone on and continued up until WM where Punk goes through all these hurdles beating everybody HHH puts in front of him. Finally leading to Face/Tweener Punk vs. Heel GM HHH. Would have been massive, culmination of Punk's shoot promo leading to the WM main event with Trips, hell add stephanie at ringside. 

The anti authority rebellious face/tweener CM Punk vs the Dominant heel GM with stephanie at ringside. Punk vs the New Age Mcmahons

The perfect WM main event and they pissed it all away.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I always believed the true culprit of why Punk never got a real payoff with Trips was due to the fact that Rock-Cena was announced a year in advance. In doing that, WWE basically fucked themselves horribly and it was basically a case of "OH SHIT, we can't make Punk the focus of the show because Cena needs to main event Mania against the Rock" thus meaning that alot of what Punk did took a backseat despite his buzz being at a level that 99.9 percent of wrest;ers will never come close to.

If Rock-Cena doesn't happen ; Punk-Trips or Punk-Cena main events Wrestlemania.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Batista/HHH series:

WM21- **
BL- **3/4
Vengeance- ****1/2

Taker/Lesnar... still looking around for their cell match since the youtube link I had for it was removed. Any help finding it on youtube or dailymotion would be greatly appreciated. I'd prefer not to download, but I will if that's the only way.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Batista/hhh series

Wm21- *** 3/4*
Backlash- **** 1/2*
Vengeance- ***** 1/2*

Only got a few tv matches of hunter/foley left then the awesomeness that is their 2000 street fight and HIAC :hhh


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just searched far and wide for you man, can't find anything... Fucking WEIRD considering how that match should be really popular. I think you can get it on WWE.com if you're living in the United States... If you aren't than Fuck WWE for not making their videos available to the world (from a Canadian's point of view).

Watching HBK-HHH from the Royal Rumble right now, and I think WAAYYY differently of it now than I did the last time I saw it.. IS IT A GOOD THING OR A BAD THING ?!?!?! .... SUSPENSE. Ugh.... Really not looking forward to watching that god damn cell match tonight, even though I really like the match. I got like four hours so I might be able to get this things completely done tonight... We'll see 

The Helmsley-Foley feud in 1997 is MARKDAFUCKOUT. I adore and give all of their PPV matches from that year ******. LOVE LOVE LOVE all of them. Foley is Triple H's greatest opponent by 289 miles. WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION....

Who are these guys's best opponents (in terms of match quality) ?

Hulk Hogan
Randy Savage
Ric Flair
Steve Austin
The Rock
Chris Benoit
Eddie Guerrero
Triple H
Randy Orton
John Cena
CM Punk
The Undertaker
Chris Jericho
Shawn Michaels
Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar
Big Show
Rey Mysterio
Mick Foley
Batista

I can't think of anybody else ATM .... I'll post my response to my own question (WOW) when somebody else replies first


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Sandrone said:


> Taker/Lesnar... still looking around for their cell match since the youtube link I had for it was removed. Any help finding it on youtube or dailymotion would be greatly appreciated. I'd prefer not to download, but I will if that's the only way.


I found this video but the quality is not that good, and whoever uploaded it put the wrong date on it lol.







Anyway, you're big Taker mark, why the hell don't you have the Anthology set? 


btw, this is my review on it:



Spoiler: Brock/Taker HIAC



*Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker 
HELL IN A CELL for the WWE Championship 
WWE No Mercy 2002*










* “THIS IS THE NEW PHENOM! One that will ANNIHILATE YOU! DESTROY YOU! HE CONDEMNS YOU TO HELL!!! 

Deadman, Rest … In … Peace …”* – _Paul Heyman_


Undertaker and Brock Lesnar came into Hell in a Cell with such a personal animosity for one another and this is where it all culminated in sheer brutality. That's what this match type calls for and how it should be used in the WWE. They ran with the storyline of Lesnar and Heyman threatening Undertaker’s pregnant wife and I think that took Undertaker’s character to a more vulnerable level emotionally which we had never seen before or since. The internal struggle Taker had to go threw in the build up with his family being brought into a scandal instigated by Paul Heyman and the decimation of his trusty 'soup bone' right hand by Lesnar was the Hell leading into this Cell. Taker had to bring hell to Brock for his family and for himself. 

The selling of Undertaker's hand injury has received criticism from some fans over the years that claim he didn't sell extensively enough. I didn't think Taker's selling was a problem at all. I think he did as best as he could sell that he was indeed in pain and that he wouldn't allow a maimed body part stop him from fighting this monster. Every time Undertaker used the hand for a punch he quickly pulled it back in agony along with a pain filled scream - now that is good selling. Tazz and Cole even explained when Undertaker used the hand for a Chokeslam as adrenaline kicking in and that’s enough reasoning for me. 

Unlike the first ever HIAC, Undertaker met his match here and then some in the animalistic champion Brock Lesnar. However, Taker was forced to use the old “cast as a weapon” during the match. Because of the cast Taker controlled the first quarter of the fight which had never been done to Lesnar at the time and I don't think has since. Brock felt the pain of the cell as Undertaker rammed his head and raked his flesh into the steel fence. 

Lesnar bleeds and Paul Heyman screams! God, Heyman’s voice is so annoying! Classic heel manager that Paul E was. Undertaker makes us all happy momentarily when Heyman mistakenly got his hand stuck in the Cell and busted his head open! I thought that was awesome to feature that payback spot for all the hell Heyman put Taker through. Lesnar being the freakin MANSTER that he is used his brute strength to slam Undertaker into the Cell and followed that up by desperately pulling at the cast to remove the weapon. With the help of Paul Heyman and his belt, Brock viciously struck Taker’s hand with a steel chair until the cast came off. When the cast inevitably came off the match got even more violent.










The two steel stair shots to Undertaker’s skull are two of the most violent stair shots I’ve seen in wrestling. The sound of the stair bouncing off Taker's skull was sickening to hear. Undertaker’s created one of the most grotesque scenes ever with his blade job. Absolute carnage was Brock's domination. Lesnar was put over so huge it's ridiculous. 

The "crimson mask," his exhausted facial expressions all help make his babyface and peril performance in this bloodletting look astounding. What I've always loved about Undertaker's selling in the last decade is how he portrays a beaten down man whose will to fight to the very end won't die even when his body does. 

The Tombstone countered into the F-5 is a phenomenal finish and the best way to end the match proving to everyone at the time that NO ONE is like Brock Lesnar. No happy endings here. The monster destroys the legend.











***** 3/4* 

What a hellacious performance from both men in one of the greatest Hell in a Cell matches ever.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*No Holds Barred*
The Undertaker vs. Triple H 
_Wrestlemania 27_
​
It's been well over a year and half since this match happened. Watching this live on ppv, I thought it was absolutely incredible. On first watch I seriously contemplated giving it the full 5 stars. I thought it was THAT good. Now, on this day, I think it's time to finally give it a proper rewatch and see how it holds up. Oh how feelings change...

First let's start with the good stuff. That being the beginning of the match. Instantly from the bell Trips looks on top of his game. He knows Taker normally charges straight for his opponent, so he decided to jump the gun and charges him first. Lands some nice looking body shots while managing to duck all of Taker's blows. Also, he counters old school and tosses him off the top rope. Nice little touches there, the Game knows his opponent well. Everything so far seemes to be done with much more force than a normal match. This one's sure as hell gonna be physical. Then we get on to some of the more memorable moments of the match; the spots. The backdrop off the announce table makes me cringe every time. Hunter could've easily broken a hip or severely damaged his back. The spinebuster through the announce table was something different and unexpected. Can't complain there. Essentially everything up to this exact point has been flat out awesome. They're destined to have an amazing match. BUT, I speak too soon.

Now the middle of the match. Man, I didn't realize how much this dragged. It started with a chokeslam for a 2 count. Ok, nothing wrong there. Well then we get a pedigree for a 2 count. No big deal, you knew that was gonna happen. Problem was at this point they're basically laying on the mat for at least 1-2 minutes after every big move. Now I know they've already taken a lot of punishment, but this isn't even selling anymore. It's just really really slow. Big move, near fall, lay down. I never realized all these complaints were actually true until now. What made it even worse was that FUCKING REF. I can't stand the way Scott Armstrong counts. It's so slow and deliberate, seemingly nothing is believable when it comes to nearfalls. The middle part of this match flat out sucked, I'll be honest. There were times when I just wanted to fast forward through it and not a single one of the pinfalls were believable finishes. But now that that's over, we get to the true aspect of why I loved this match so much at one time.

So we'll fast forward to Hunter's 3rd (and final) pedigree. He gets a 2 count of course (didn't believe this nearfall either) and seems to be thinking "what the hell do I have to do?" Then shit gets real. He grabs the chair and beats the living fuck out of Undertaker's back. Welts all across his side. Still Taker won't stay down. Taker stands up, gets WALLOPED over the head with the chair. Yeah, that was incredibly shocking considering that's been outlawed by the WWE. But see, these guys are the last outlaws. They don't give a fuck. So Taker's out in the middle of the ring. This is what puzzles me. Why wouldn't Triple H go for the cover? Instead he huddles in a corner, seemingly thinking to himself, "man, I'm gonna get fined for that shot..." No, but really. It's ok though because that would lead to one of the most amazing moments in all of Wrestlemania's history.

Taker is absolutely out of gas. He doesn't have the grip to go for the chokeslam, so Hunter's done fuckin around. It's TOMBSTONE time! Trips gives the signal, cleanly picks him up, and NAILS him with an absolutely perfect looking tombstone piledriver. This one's over folks. One, two, thr.. NO! The fucking Undertaker just kicked out. I kid you not, this was the ONLY time in 18 years I had EVER thought the streak was gonna be over. I still marked out on this watch, it still gave me goosebumps. Such an awesome moment. Problem was, as soon as he kicked out I knew there was not a chance in hell Triple H was walking out with a victory tonight. Time to resort to old measures.

Sledgehammer time? Not today, Paul. The Undertaker (sloppily) applies his Hell's Gate submission and chokes the life out of Hunter. The execution itself wasn't all that great but I'll be damned if they didn't do everything right past that moment. Hunter trying with absolutely everything he had to get out was fantastic. You could see the spot where he was going to attempt to pick Taker's entire body up and slam him but he just didn't have the strength. The crowd is eating this up of course, and when Triple H grabs the sledgehammer, you can hear thousands of people yell OH! over all the ruckus. As he slowly drops the hammer and his grip fades along with any ounces of strength he had left, you know the end is near.

Triple H taps at Wrestlemania... again. The last several minutes of this match are an absolutely amazing spectacle, there's no denying that. The symbolism behind the closing minutes is remarkable. Remember, Triple said he would end the streak or die trying, but in the end was Undertaker the _real_ winner? Triple H walked out on his own power. Taker could not. As difficult as this match is to rate, I'm gonna do it. The beginning was great and the end was incredible, but the middle portion really drags it down imo. Still, what an amazing spectacle. Although nowhere near my MOTY list for 2011 list anymore, it's a great watch in spots.

**** 3/4*​


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Ric Flair v Triple H - Raw 12/31/07*
Whoever's reviewing this series (Starbuck?) is in for a treat with this one. Intangible dynamic between the two, fantastic atmosphere, lots of emotion, JR being a boss on commentary, Flair rolling back the years and busting out all his signature moves, Hunter basically working as a pseudo heel and selling the figure four like death (crowd went apeshit); everything came together really well. The only knock on this is the finish. If you don't like this match I don't like you.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ownage™;12375763 said:


> *Ric Flair v Triple H - Raw 12/31/12*
> Whoever's reviewing this series (Starbuck?) is in for a treat with this one. Intangible dynamic between the two, fantastic atmosphere, lots of emotion, JR being a boss on commentary, Flair rolling back the years and busting out all his signature moves, Hunter basically working as a pseudo heel and selling the figure four like death (crowd went apeshit); everything came together really well. The only knock on this is the finish. If you don't like this match I don't like you.


Cool, can you give me your time machine to watch this and the rest of the Raw December 31st, 2012 show? Didn't know Flair was returning in the next couple of weeks and HHH was coming back before Mania.

Edit: Aw, you edited the date before my post finished posting.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haha yeah my bad. Seriously though, it's great. If that match isn't already on DVD (might be on Flair's last set) they should put it on HHH's.

How/where you guys getting these name changes? I kinda want one.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You can request one in the VIP section.


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## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> The Helmsley-Foley feud in 1997 is MARKDAFUCKOUT. I adore and give all of their PPV matches from that year ******. LOVE LOVE LOVE all of them. Foley is Triple H's greatest opponent by 289 miles. WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION....


That's interesting because I have adored the 1997 series as well, except for there KOTR match which I didn't find as amusing as the others, and not up to the standards of ****** stars for me. All the others though :mark: 

Hmm best opponents match quality wise 

Batista- Undertaker
Punk- Cena
Cena- Punk
Shawn- Undertaker
Undertaker- Shawn
Foley- HHH
HHH-Foley
Austin- Bret
Rock-Austin
Orton- Christian
Jericho- might catch some heat but Mysterio
Flair- Steamboat
Mysterio- Jericho
Guerrero- Mysterio


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## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Right on.

The activity in this thread recently has been super fellas. TLC is this Sunday right?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer buddy ambrose debut match this Sunday :mark:


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Intercontinental Championship match: Tito Santana (c) vs Randy "Macho Man" Savage*


Match is pretty decent. Kinda slow but has some good action. The guys were fairly equally booked early, then Tito worked the knee with a couple kicks and a figure four leglock. Savage did a great job bumping and selling for Tito the entire match and Tito was convincing in looking like the stereotypical hot tempered latino which lead to his downfall. His aggression would be his downfall as he continued to be overly aggressive raising the ire of the ref, leading to admonishments. He made that mistake one too many times as Savage took the opportunity to pull a weapon from his tights that he bashed Tito in the head with to claim the IC championship.


It was a decent contest overall. I think more could have been done but for a non-TV match it wasn't bad *** .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ooo... something relatively new for me to do! Best opponent for each of these wrestlers:

Batista- Undertaker
Punk- Cena
Cena- Punk
Shawn- Undertaker
Undertaker- Shawn
Foley- HHH
HHH- The Rock
Austin- Bret
Rock- Austin
Orton- Undertaker
Jericho- HBK
Mysterio- Jericho
Guerrero- Mysterio
Lesnar- Undertaker and Angle (TIE)
Del Rio- Christian
Barrett- Bryan
Sheamus- Sheamus works very well with a lot of guys so it's a tough choice. I'd say Morrison takes it, mainly due to their Ladder match at TLC 2010.
Bryan- Another tough one... can really only go based on WWE, but with that in mind, probably Ziggler or Punk
Ziggler- Bryan
Angle- Undertaker
Big Show- Undertaker and Lesnar (TIE)


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*SummerSlam 1989: Intercontinental Championship match: Ultimate Warrior vs "Ravishing" Rick Rude (c)*


Rick Rude is awesome! 


Pardon me, I had to mark for a second. 


Early the match Rude's offense is useless as Warrior no-sells everything and does a pretty good bench press throwing Rude over the top. Warrior got away with hitting Rude with a belt while outside the ring...which should be a DQ but it lead to a suplex on the floor by Warrior. For the first several minutes Warrior was dominant over Rude. He basically manhandles him doing whatever he wanted. From basic suplexes to body slams to aerial maneuvers like double axe handles. 
.
Warrior goes up top for another axe handle and that turns out to be a mistake, Rude takes advantage and begins working on the lower back. In the midst of Rude's offense Warrior manually breaks The Rude Awakening ("ZOMG he burrried it!!!!" ) and Rude countered with a sleeper that Warror countered with a jawbreaker.
.
After a ref bump and a short break Rude goes back on offense, which Warrior no-sells as he hulks up and lands a succession of clotheslines and a powerslam but no ref to count. Seconds later, Warrior lands a pretty decent piledriver (surprisingly) on Rude for a 2 count. Warrior follows with a good running powerslam and goes for the big splash which Rude reversed with his knees. Rude then drops Warrior with a piledriver of his own (kinda sloppy) for a two count, he then follows it with a top-rope punch for 2, and another piledriver for 2. Roddy Piper makes an appearance to distract Rude which leads to a decent german suplex from Warrior into a shoulder block, gorilla press slam and splash for the dub and the title.
.
Good match. Its rare a strong face like the Warrior gets some aid in order to win. Rude was made to look good in losing and the match was enjoyable, kinda fun for nostalgia purposes and the crowd ate it up. I'd give it a solid *** .


----------



## AliMMA83 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just downloaded Fully Loaded 2000, my body is ready !  

Can't find Backlash 2000  


Last match watched: HBK vs Y2J at No Mercy 2008 (Ladder Match): ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH SHIT. One last HHH-HBK match to watch, and that would be The Tribute to the Troops 2005 match.... YEAH I'm really not expecting much from this one, but hopefully it's fun so I can potentially work on my series retrospective to be ready for POSTING tonight. At the latest tomorrow afternoon.

It's going to be around 6,000 words in total. OH BOY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

**** for Warrior vs Rude from Summerslam '88. Makes their WrestleMania V match look like such trash, haha.

Well my project has been halted. Meh. I'm not worried. I can cram that in the span of a day. I literally have shit all to do with the remaining days of the year. All I'm doing is either spending time with my brother or catching up with wrestling/movies. Quite a life I lead, eh?

Fully Loaded 2000 is GREAT. Taker vs Angle is shockingly bad. The other two main events more than deliver. I love how Taker vs Angle matches progressed from 7 minute lamefests to one hell of a dynamic bout. Taker himself got in better shape following his ABA return and Angle got better and more adjusted in the ring from a professional aspect. All of their others bouts are great. Survivor Series '00 wasn't great, tbhayley, but it was good and loads better than Fully Loaded. Which was only 3-4 months prior.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Fully Loaded 1998 Best 2 of 3 Falls- Intercontinental Championship: The Rock (c) vs HHH*

Pretty equal booking early with each guy getting their offense in and their time in control. After running H into the steps Rocky takes control. HHH stars to get a little offense in after awhile, nothing real major happens outside of the chop competition in the corner. Rock whips H into the opposite corner and H does his Ric Flair impression and flips out the ring, leaving Rock in control once again out on the floor leading to a suplex on the floor. H takes control as he and Rock trade head slams into the steps and big Mizark comes out with a big splash on H behind the ref's back. Billy Gunn comes out to chase off Mark Henry. Rock rolls H in the ring and Chyna gets involved and distracts the ref while Rock hits H with the belt for a 2 count. Rock has firm control now, its an interesting contest considering there's a 30 min time limit, we have to be about 10-12 mins into it with no decision. 
.
After a resthold chinlock H shows some life, that was quickly snuffed out by Rock. Rock throws H outside the ring where he chokes H with a cord (DQ?!). They travel back inside where Rock takes control again. Another rest hold chinlock, as the crowd claps and feeds H their energy (a lost art in wrestling now). After a short burst, Rock takes back over but unlike before H is showing more fire. H pulls off his signature high knee, and then goes for it again and is reversed into a stun gun...and now Rock is in control again. After a prolonged ref working D-lo finally does his run-in that is snuffed out by H, after dispatching D-Lo H walks into a Rock Bottom and loses round 1. 
.
After the 1 minute rest Rock goes back onto the offensive. Choosing to do battle on the floor Rock flings H into the railing, H bounces off with a clothesline but its not enough and Rock sling shots him into a table. The Rock drags H back into the ring and lands the People's Elbow for a 2 count. A double clothesline, which puts Rock down for an unusual amount of tim, potential D-Lo interference stopped by Chyna and this allows X Pac to slide in and perform an X Factor on Rock for 2. Chaos ensues, a ref is hit by a chair Rock is low blowed and DDT'd on a chair by Chyna and H claims fall 2.
.
The minute break is over HHH takes control. A new ref makes a 2 count. H begins his assault with 1 minute remaining, a few clotheslines and a knee smash. His offense is cut short by Rock's Samoan drop. Fists are traded and a pedigree is executed but the time limit expires...draw finish. Rock retains. 
.
It was a very good match. Very different from the typical Attitude Era match but also very much the same. A sort of blending of a classic, traditional 80s finish with a 90s execution. I'm not a fan of all the run-ins but the match was pretty well worked. Rock kept his offense basic and effective. Seemingly using the clock as a weapon, and it worked. HHH was okay, not good or great as the face in peril. I think he lacked the, uhh, "scrappiness" of the role but it still worked out nicely for both guys. The match was good, regardless of the finish. It made me forget how much Attitude Era marks on here ruined the product of that time for me inflating every damn thing. All that aside this match is a true gem ****.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol @ the finish of the match. It's so bad. One..two...*HOLDS OFF ON THREE* OH NO, time expires. 

Solid match. Nothing more, nothing less, imo. I know some who hate it.

That reminds me. I must watch the Triple H vs Rock iron man match. I think that has potential of making it onto my 5 star list.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

It was bizarre that you mention that. Hebner didn't even try to count and he had more than enough time. Heb really blew that finish, or the guys went for the pin too soon, either way it was botched. 

That iron man match is meh. I like the 2/3 falls better. That match still had too much interference. Rock lost to a sleeper hold, and that's just nonsense. I honestly haven't seen it in a long time, however I doubt I'd give it that high a mark.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Completely botched. Bad finish.

I don't see the problem with a sleeperhold. Dolph Ziggler has won by it quite a number of times from a recent perspective. Not to mention RODDY PIPER perfecting it. Oh, those pops were glorious. First guy I've seen claim the 2/3 Falls is better. I own the 2/3 falls and only saw Iron Man once when it aired live. I still prefer Iron Man :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Triple H vs Shawn Michaels : The Introduction*

OH this is going to be fucking controversial. When we first announced we were doing projects on here, I searched for the most polarizing and controversial series I could find, so of course I looked to one of the most polarizing figures in wrestling history ; TRIPLE H. I could have reviewed the Orton matches, but there were a ton of them, and my points could have gotten lost in the crossfire of a long and winding series. I opted for a series that was more close to home ; Triple H and Shawn Michaels. 

What can I say about this feud that already hasn’t been said ? It’s both awesome and pretentious at the same time, something which no other feud can claim to be. This feud has more highly debated matches than any other in history (RAW 03, SS 02, ARM 02, RR 04, BB 04, TT 04 are all highly controversial with their fluctuated ratings) so I thought it would be interesting to sit back and take a look at what I would personally give some of these HIGHLY controversial matches. 

Very short and shitty introduction I know, but the reason is simple ; IT WAS THE LAST THING I DID. Seriously, I wrote the fucking conclusion to this series before I wrote the introduction. Ridiculous I know, but sit back, enjoy, compare, rage, applaud, as we’re going to dive into HHH-HBK ; The Rivalry.

_Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs Shawn Michaels : Monday Night Raw (May 13, 1996)_

Trips is being a cocky prick really early here as the Conneticut snob, Michaels has absolutely NO clue what to do. That HHH bow in his early days was so fucking awesome that I don’t even know what to say about it. Shawn’s just like “fuck you” and sends both over the top rope, skinning the cat and flipping back into the ring afterwards. Crowd starting to get behind HBK now, as he randomly starts walking over to the announce table to flirt with a girl at ringside, before turning and DECKING Hunter with a pretty stiff right hand. Trips getting absolutely OWNED here, as Michaels works on the NOSE of Trips for some reason, cranking a big headlock and then turnbuckle smashing his face repeatedly afterwards.

LEAVE TRIPLE H’S NOSE ALLLOOOONEEEE ! Shawn takes a VERY over the top bump in this, as Hunter kicks him in the stomach while Shawn is on the top turnbuckle, causing Shawn to practically fly out of the ring and do a backflip in the process. These two are hitting each other harder than I’ve ever seen them hit one another, and BAM Harley Race knee to the face gets two. Mr. Perfect comes to ringside with a SINIZTER look on his face and the crowd is like “LOLWUT”. The story to this match is pretty damn good ; Hunter takes control because Shawn gets too confident, Shawn fires back with his explosive offense, Hunter beats down on Shawn some more.

Hunter’s control segments were UNUSUALLY good for him in 1996 , as they usually weren’t that great, but Shawn is bumping like crazy to make Hunter’s offense look great anyways. OMG FIVE MOVEZ OF DOOOOOM INCOMING LOL ! He hits all of them and instead of going for sweet chin music, goes for the cover ? Ummm… Okay ? Beautiful sequence where a piledriver attempt is reversed into a frankensteiner (don’t know WHY Hunter didn’t go for the pedigree there), and a sweet chin music gets the pin at around 15 minutes. For people who don’t enjoy the Hunter-HBK series, this will probably be one of your favorites of the bunch. A simple story on Raw without anything trying to look epic, with some great moves, a good story, and a great pace. It has it’s ISSUES (all of those moves at the end that didn’t fit in but just looked nice) , but by the same token it’s pretty great. Check it out.

**** ¼*

_Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs Shawn Michaels ; Monday Night Raw (Dec 11th 1997)_

"It was a ruse, a ploy, a plot, a plan, a charade, a conspiracy, a sham! We've been conned, hoodwinked, bamboozled, flimflammed, had the wool pulled over our eyes even!" ; this is how Jim Cornette characterizes this match. I like to characterize this match as the GOAT , A TRUE CATCH-AS-CATCH CAN CLASSIC ! Truly an epic match for the ages, a battle between two all time greats over the illustrious EUROPEAN title and…..

Yeah I can’t keep this up much longer. The bell rings and they stare at one another fiercely. They extend the feeling out process for about a minute without contact, until they eventually lock up and Shawn falls to the mat. Trips runs back and forth across the ropes about a dozen times before (not) connecting with a splash to win the European title in about one and a half minutes. This wasn’t a match at all, but it sure was fucking hilarious. DA COMISSH’S PLAN BACKFIREZ, and DX gets the last laugh once again in what many consider to be THE true defining classic of 1997 (Fuck Eddie-Rey, HBK-Taker, & Austin-Bret, THIS is your MOTY). I obviously can’t rate this, but if I could I’d give it *****

*N/A*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels : Summerslam 2002_

So, this is it. What some people consider to be the definitive comeback along with being one of the greatest matches ever. Did I forget to mention that some people also consider it to be the most overrated match ever , so that should count for something. I had it at the perfect five and one of the greatest ever on the first watch, let’s see how it holds up. The work at the beginning of the match is fantastic, with Michaels skinning the cat and basically stating to the crowd “I’m back bitches, and I haven’t lost a step… Time to show this punk bitch who’s boss”. Having those awesome moments by Shawn made it that much better when Trips finally caught him with the big side slam and started to work the back like a cerebral assassin would.

The back work by Trips ; I love that shit. Turnbuckle irish whips + AA spinebusters + sidewalk slams + vicious chair shots = systematically destroying your opponent. Shawn sells it so fucking well at first, almost like the first side slam looked like it KILLED HIM. Then I see a reason why this match isn’t as good as I thought it was ; Shawn’s selling of the back just goes away. Seriously, it’s almost like he forgets that HE HAD A MAJOR BACK INJURY THAT KEPT HIM OUT FOR FOUR YEARS. Anyways, this turns into a straight up hardcore match, with Trips getting in some fucking AWESOME offense, and Shawn bumping all around the place like it was one of his mid-90s coke binges. Both men blade and we’re at a standstill, as HBK starts breaking out some of his old shit to drive the crowd insane, most noticeable the inclusion of a ladder. This is almost a borderline TLC match with nothing hanging above the ring (with the exception of a garbage can of course), seriously.

Now I see another problem with this match ; why so many unnecessary weapons ? I know it’s a streetfight , but for fuck sakes let the guys just WORK ! It seems that every 5 seconds HBK is looking under the apron for another table or ladder, as this match has it’s fair share of AWZUM SHAWN SPOTZ OMG, including a dive through a table, and a ladder elbow drop. The finish is fucking GOLDEN as we get a reversal of the SCM into a reversal of a Pedigree into a jackknife cover. Trips is all “OH NO! THE JACKKNIFE COVER ! MY ONE WEAKNESS!” :hhh , and that’s the end of this match.

I see why people have a problem with this ; it’s unnecessariy hardcore and Shawn’s selling is suspect. Those points are true, and a main reason why I still don’t have this @ *****. However, this is one of the most emotional matches I’ve ever seen, and with some devious character work and offense from Trips, these two manage to steal the show at one of the greatest PPVs of all time. THE ICON CAN STILL GO!

***** ½*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Armageddon 2002 ; 3 Stages of Hell match)_

OH, this match. This is another one of those highly polarized HHH matches that just so happens to get MUCH more hate then I believe it should. Always thought it was just PURE FUN and I ate up every minute of it’s nonsense because I love both guys and they go at it for so long in so many different ridiculous scenarios. Since this is a three stages of hell match, I might as well write a paragraph for each fall, complete with a summarization of the match at the end. YEP, I just posted a review summary while I’m doing a review… Whatever, I had this @ *** ¾ last time I watched this (everybody else seems to have it ** ½>) , so it should be fun to reminisce. OH MY GOD, before the match even starts, Flair gets ejected, bumps for Hebner, and Lawler says “that’s not fair to Flair!” in a Bobby Heenan throwback. THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME. The match hasn’t started and I’m already UBEREXCITED. Let’s go.

It’s become apparent that I’m going to use the word WHY in this review about 857432 times. Why has this become apparent to me ? The answer will be revealed very shortly. Trips has a big motherfucking bandage on his right leg while Shawn has back problems (forgot to mention that the first fall was the streetfight) , so NATURALLY Trips decides to work the LEGS of Michaels while Michaels works the BACK of Triple H… WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY STRUCTURE A MATCH THIS WAY. Seriously, why would they do this, it’s the most ass backwards psychology I’ve ever seen in my life. These two go full out ECW main event style for this one, busting out 645346 weapons to destroy each other with. Umm… WHY are they doing this again? Why couldn’t the first match have been a standard match. It makes literally NO SENSE, but we get a legit cool moment where HHH goes to nail HBK with a barbed wire 2X4 , but decides to set it on FIRE first. Oh that was fucking awesome, the visual of HHH holding up that flaming barbed wire is ridiculous. VERY ECW like, but ridiculous. Trips wins a very uncoordinated Streetfight with the Pedigree.

Second fall is a cage match, and we can tell how much the streetfight has taken out of HHH by the fact that he IMMEDIATELY GETS OUT OF THE RING TO HORDE WEAPONS IN THE RING. I don’t know WHY he does this whatsoever, and it makes no sense, but whatever. The aforementioned “limb-work” of each man has disappeared by this point, and it’s basically become a full blown ECW arena weapons fuckfest orgy. Flair comes back during the cage match to interfere, which begs the question in the first place… WHY THE FUCK DID HE LEAVE DURING THE STREETFIGHT. I know he was ejected, but it’s a STREETFIGHT for fuck sakes ! HBK and Trips get to the top of the cage as HHH tells Flair to stack tables on top of one another outside the cage. WHY WOULD HE TELL FLAIR TO DO THIS ? How about he say “Hey Ric, why don’t you come up here and do something intelligent like say, STOP SHAWN FROM ESCAPING THE CAGE SO I CAN WIN THE DAMN MATCH”. Whatever, they stall on top of the cage, barely hitting each other for the combined 17 minutes that Flair is setting up tables, in which they immediately get down from the cage thereafterwards. Flair interferes, gets thrown off the cage like a madman, gets nailed with a chair, and blades/screams crazily immediately. I’m not gonna lie, THAT WAS AWESOME. HBK hits SCM but for some reason jumps off the cage to put HHH through a table anyways. Why does he do this? I have no idea. ON TO THE NEXT FALL.

Third and final fall is a ladder match, in which neither guy really do anything the entire time. They kind of just lie around and according to Trips when talking about this match, it’s “ALL EMOTION OUT THERE, WHAT OUR BUSINESS IS ALL ABOUT” (actual quote). It’s become so blatantly obvious that Shawn is going through that stack of tables that it’s not even funny anymore. They slug around and do nothing, Pedigree, Shawn goes through the tables, and HHH takes the third fall to reclaim his WHC and begin what is quite possibly the worst World title run by a major superstar EVER. This was less ridiculous than the other two falls because they barely did anything out there. The lack of selling injuries really hurt it.

So what did I think of this match ? It had some of the worst “psychology” of all time, it had absolutely no story to it whatsoever other than a very forced one, little to no selling of supposed injured body parts, it was very, VERY poorly structured, and featured the most unnecessary violence I’ve ever seen in my life, Trips and Shawn trying to be OMGZEPIC at it’s finest…. AND I FUCKING LOVED IT. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a TERRIBLE MATCH…. But I’ll be damned if this isn’t one of the funnest matches I’ve ever seen. Popcorn fun 101 for me right here, just two guys beating the shit out of each other with weapons and doing crazy shit for no reason for nearly 40 minutes. I CAN’T FAULT THAT IN THE ENTERTAINMENT DEPARTMENT. I could honestly watch this 10 times in a row and not get bored, even if it’s the biggest bunch of nonsense that I’ve ever seen in my life. Gets a “decent” rating from me simply because of personal preference , FLAIR BEING A GOAT, and random stupid shit that makes no sense that I just so happen to adore. If you aren’t a HHH or HBK fan I can justify somebody saying this is horrible but…. THIS IS AWESOME. WATCHING AGAIN NOW BEFORE I MOVE ON.

*** ½ (Non biased ? **. But it’s my review so I’ll say what I want DAMNIT!*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels : Monday Night RAW (December 29th 2003)_

I’ve heard some people call this the greatest match they’ve two have ever had together BY FAR, a pretty interesting statement to make considering the very polarizing nature of their feud together. This is in Shawn’s hometown so the crowd is certainly WHITE HOT for their hometown hero, as evidenced by the monster pop he receives upon coming through the curtain. Right away I understand exactly why people consider this to be their best match together : it’s just a normal match. Trips and HBK are well known for their shenanigans when wrestling one another, whether it be a Streetfight, 3SOH, LMS, HIAC, CAGE, and the list goes on, these two always find themselves in matches where they try far too hard to be epic wrestlers telling a compelling story. GRANTED, most of the time that works for me really well, but this is a completely different HBK-HHH match, and it shows.

The wrestling here by both men are phenomenal, as they manage to have some very impressive chain sequences in the early going (WTF 2003 HHH) and bust out some really old school moves. Trips hurts his knee, so what does Shawn do ? FUCKING GO AFTER IT and slap on the figure four, much to the schgrin of a crazed and perhaps drunken Ric Flair. That’s psychology folks, it WORKS 99.9 percent of the time in a match for a reason. I have to take the time to acknowledge Flair’s performance in this one ; one of the best managerial performances of all time, seriously. He’s doing things that old school southern WRASSLIN’ managers used to do like hold the hand for leverage on an abdominal stretch (made interesting somehow in this match by these two) , and is involved constantly throughout the match, adding to it’s greatness.

HBK kicks a rope which nutshots HHH like a motherfucker in a clever spot, as I notice something about the story and how it compares to the other HHH-HBK match ; It’s so simple. SS 02 is all OMGEPICSHAWNCOMEBACK , ARM 02 is all HHH-HBKINABATTLE4DAAGES , and this match is just a traditional , old-school style hometown face vs a super-heel who just so happens to be his most hated rival. Factor in Flair to the equation, and you have one of the biggest recipes for success ever. Anyways, Trips unloads for the pedigree but we get a series of Ref bumps leading to a SCM win for HBK… OR SO IT SEEMS… DOUBLE COUNT BY BISCHOFF OMG. 

This match truly is 8 different knds of awesome, and I can see why somebody would say this is their best match ever ; it actually might be. A completely different style of HHH-HBK than we’re used to, and if that works for you then check out this match. One of the best “basic” matches ever, as they manage to gather heat and drama using simple moves such as the abdominal stretch. My #2 Raw match ever behind the 2001 SUPERTAG.

***** ½*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing Match ; Royal Rumble 2004)_

“This thing can end in just one second”, that one quote explains what this match should be about. These two often get criticism for trying to be too OMGEPICZ in their matches , when they could be just going out there and using their best ability to put together a fluent and consistent story, and this is another one of those matches that gets a ton of criticism, with the reviews usually being between *** and ****, so less polarizing than a lot of the matches. I can tell just by how they start this off with a staredown and the big time introductions that they want this to be epic. Which means essentially one thing ; FUCK MY LIFE (kidding, always ate that big time shit up when I was a kid)

These two fluctuate from what can be perceived as trying to convey a more psychology based LMS match ala Hunter-Jericho from FL 00 (one of the greatest matches of all time may I add) with the use of leg work, figure fours, and other miscellaneous moves to make us think that this is awesome. They quickly get far too inconsistent with the story they are trying to tell by fluctuating to a match outside the ring , a more “brawly” type of LMS which is a far cry from what they were literally trying to do like 5 seconds ago. They brawl it out on the announce table and tease a big spot, but nothing comes of it which really pissed me off. The go back in the ring… Only to leave the ring 10 seconds later, in a very pointless spot. SPEAKING OF POINTLESS, Michaels attempts a moonsault to Triple H, but misses and goes straight through the aforementioned announce table. He does this despite the announce table being atleast a good TEN FEET AWAY FROM TRIPLE H. One of the most unbelieveably stupid spots I’ve ever seen, which is really saying something. Michaels is somehow cut open here, which again makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, as we move onto the big climax portion of the match.

What’s that you say? The feeling out process has just finished ? I know it has, it’s just that this match seems to have NO middle and no control portion whatsoever, seeming extremely rushed for a match that tries way too hard to be overly epic without letting the heat become natural. Anyways, we get a few chair spots and some finisher teases, as this match just suddenly decided to switch from the beginning of the match to the end which is a finisher fest that results in a SCM for the draw. I like that the SCM ended it because it goes back to HBK’s point about “one second ending it all”, pretty good storytelling for this one I must say.

What do I think about this match ? I think that trying to make a match overly epic for HHH and Shawn resulted in them not knowing what kind of match they wanted to wrestle, whether it be a big time brawl or a psychology-fest. The stalling spots and “climactic 10 counts” seemed incredibly forced and really contrived. This match is one of the most confusing things I’ve ever seen, and don’t get me wrong ; It’s not a bad match although I’m shitting on it a ton (THAT TABLE SPOT WAS SO FUCKING STUPID), but it just doesn’t have a proper middle to it which is asinine for a match as long as this one to lay claim to. It’s definitely better than the ARM 02 match but I don’t like it half as much. Whereas ARM 02 was hilariously ridiculously awesome, this match was kind of dull. GOOD…. But dull.

*** ¾*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels : (Hell in a Cell ; Bad Blood 2004)_

These two have been feuding seemingly forever, and what a perfect way to end this (besides a one off match at Taboo Tuesday that was more about Edge and HBK than HHH and HBK) feud, in the cell. As far as this match goes, it will certainly have its detractors (HHH vs HBK in a cell for 47 minutes !), but this is a personal favourite of mine for various reasons. First of all, I think this match definitely should have been this long, mainly because of the slow build that this match needed. This was an intense feud that lasted a long time, so it's only natural that these two tell a story like this one. The story in this match is that these two throw absolutely everything possible at one another, but neither one of these men wants to lose to the other (because of personal pride), so neither one will give up. Triple H's offense is very methodical in this one, working HBK's back with some good chair shots, some good outside the ring spots, and even a few side slams on TOP of a chair that looked brutal. Michaels selling and bumping in this match are both superb, as he really sells the back fantastic (even on a kip up, Michaels shows a considerable amount of pain in his body language and facial expressions).

Triple H steps it up in this one as well (at this point in his career he was just getting out of a slump and was beginning to pick it up once again), channeling his inner flair with his fantastic heel tactics which included working a body part to perfection (the back), crazy bumping all around the cage just like in the Nash match, fantastic facial expressions and body language, as well as even doing a Flair flop at one point in the match. I think for a 47 minute match this is paced pretty well, it works at a slower pace that eventually heats up, and as the time wears down further and further these two can barely even move to cover one another (which should be expected in a match like this anyways). This match has alot of brutality WITHOUT incorporating a whole bunch of weapons (Steps, Chairs, Ladders and tables are really the only weapons), which says alot about the intensity here. Michaels right hand shots are so stiff that at the end of the match his knuckles are actually swollen alot. The ending in this match pisses alot of people off, because for the last 7-8 minutes or so, it's just finisher after finisher with these guys laying around on the mat. That may be true, but I think that's reminiscent of WM XXVII between HHH and Undertaker, it just says that these two are spent and are pulling out their best stuff.

At the end of the day however, this match is going to have its critics no matter what. I think it's a decently paced, brutal (without the weapons even), psychology and intensity filled match with some good storytelling, and the perfect way to end a very long feud between two competitors. you NEED to be emotionally invested in a feud to enjoy a feud ending match such as this one. I'm practically in love with HHH, and Shawn is in my top 5-10 favourites ever, so obviously I'm going to love a 47 minute match between the two of them. Not the greatest cell match at all, not even fucking close actually, but still an awesome feud ender that doesn’t touch SS or RAW 03 matches in the slightest. Wouldn’t go **** with this like I did the last time I saw it, but it’s damn close from where I sit.

**** 1/2*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Taboo Tuesday 2004)_

The FEUD is over , and this is more of a one off match on PPV that is based around one thing ; Shawn’s leg injury. Shawn sells the leg in his entrance FFS , refusing to get down on on both knees to do his trademark pose complete with pyro. This match is ANOTHER one of the more polarizing matches in the Trips-HBK feud , and for good reason ; Shawn’s selling. Some people love it, some people say he overdid it, some people flat out just fucking hate it ? What do I think of Shawn’s selling of the leg, as well as Trips’s offense in this one? Let’s find out.

Right away Trips doesn’t buy the injury, but once he attacks the leg he’s all like “OH SHIT, HE’S ACTUALLY HURT… THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME” and proceeds to lay one of the most cerebral beatdowns on a body part that I’ve ever seen in my life. Trips is on offense for a HUGE majority of this match, and he’s such a bastardly heel that you just HAVE to hate him. He’s Harley Race like in his running knee drops and leg work to Shawn, while Shawn’s aforementioned polarizing selling ? It’s awesome at this point. The facial expressions he makes is awesome, and how Trips responds to Shawn’s cries of PAIN is absolutely fantastic.

Trips slaps Shawn into a figure four leg lock as Shawn looks DEAD. We then get a truly awesome moment, as Shawn pulls the referee down and begs him not to stop the match, while Triple H screams “GIVE UP SHAWN! TELL HIM TO GIVE IT UP!” while SLAPPING HIM IN THE FACE MULTIPLE TIMES. That’s SUCH a bastard move by Trips, and it reminds me of why I love the guy so much. Shawn gets out of the hold to roaring cheers as Trips continues to destroy the leg. Michaels gets some offense in (well, really defense) because of Hunter’s over aggression and commitment to destroying one body part, undermining Shawn’s spirit as a result. The comeback is on as Shawn busts out his first pure moves of the match , the OMGZEPICFIVEMOVESOFDOOM. Why Triple H sells this as if he’s been beaten all match when the truth is that it’s the first time he’s even been touched in the entire match, I’ll never know. Trips’s overaggression causes him to take a nutshot behind the ref’s back, as it looks like HBK may actually TAKE THIS THING after a flying elbow. He winds back for Sweet Chin Music, but Evolution interference causes EDGE to interfere and cost HBK the match.

This match is awesome for a number of reasons ; ONE, they didn’t do too much to try and make it epic. TWO, it has a simple story and features HHH at his best ; on OFFENSE for 11 or 12 out of 14 minutes. THREE, it has some great limbwork and some fantastic (YES IT GETS OVER THE TOP, IT’S SHAWN FFS) selling of the limbwork, and the whole match was believeable from start to finish. FOUR, it was only 14 minutes long, the shortest match in the entire series up to this point by fucking FAR (NC 97). Fantastic, FANTASTIC match here with some of the best offense I’ve ever seen from Trips, and one of the best babyfaces-in-peril performances I’ve ever seen from Shawn. Fantastic work by both men, and while it’s certainly not for everyone ; it’s for me

******

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels : Tribute to The Troops 2005
_
So yeah, I’m not expecting anything too serious out of these two granted what kind of show this is, the fact that these two haven’t been seriously feuding for over a year and a half by this point, and that well……. IT’S TRIBUTE TO THE TROOPS MAN. I have no fucking clue what I rated this the first time I ever saw it but it should be interesting to see what I think about it in comparison to the others (BTW, this is the last one I watched chronologically when putting this project together). I’m hoping this is extremely fun as HBK is dressed the part, but for some reason HHH is wearing his ring gear. Would he wear that to boot camp ? :lol

Anyways, it’s become very apparent how this match will play out within the first minute ; ridiculously ridiculous. These two try to match up it technically in the ring but fail miserably, deciding to just say FUCK it while getting ridiculous as possible and making their way outside the ring. What kind of weapons do they use in this match ? Gas cans , mops, and my personal favourite moment ; Shawn tosses a sandbag at Hunter, who catches it looking puzzled, while Shawn proceeds to pummel him with another sandbag, causing Hunter to flop slowly to the ground. THE CEREBRAL ASSASSIN EVERYBODY. He’s supposed to be the biggest heel of the decade and he just acted like he was Elmer fucking Fudd. I can’t take this match too seriously as it’s just a show for the troops.

They make their way back to the ring as some more ridiculous things happen ; Trips does a Flair flop, they battle back and forth some more, a DDT puts HBK down for what seems to be five minutes (seriously), and Trips punches a referee and slides him slowly out of the ring in a very hilarious moment (which actually gets the Troops cheering for Trips in this one). OMGFIVEMOVEZOFDOOM leads to a SCM reversal into a pedigree reversal into a sweet chin music for the Shawn victory.

This is a hard one to rate. They weren’t trying to tell a story out there as this was kind of just an exhibition/ house show type match for the troops to like with some goofy and unnecessary spots like Trips getting nailed with a mop, and the awesome sandbag moment. If we take anything away from this match, it’s that Trips gets nailed in the head with a fucking MOP! Pretty bad match, but for all things considered I’ll give it one thing ; it did its job and it entertained the troops. FUN.

*** 1/4*


_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels : Monday Night RAW ( March 27 2006)_

This is it. The last of what some consider to be one of the most illustrious series’s of matches of the past decade, and what some consider to be one of the worst series’s of matches in WWE history. One of the most polarizing feuds ever ends at the go-home show for Wrestlemania. Right away Shawn gets a ton of offense in as lately he has been terrorized by Mr. Mcmahon and needs to let out all of his aggression. Unfortunately for The Game, that’s going to come at his expense. Right away Trips gets thrown over the barricade and subsequently pummeled. It’s all Michaels until they take the action back to the ring and Trips catches him with a flying Harley Race knee and an Arn Anderson spinebuster, to destroy HBK’s back. 

Trips in another really good control segment here as they aren’t shoving it down our throats how epic this is. Mr. Mcmahon makes his way to ringside, and Michaels facial expression is wonderfully disgusted, some great body language here by HBK. All it took was a little distraction for HHH to ground HBK another time and wind up for the pedigree. It doesn’t hit and LOL FIVE MOVEZ OF DOOM incoming. Michaels winds up for sweet chin music but is AGAIN stopped by Mr.Mcmahon. Pedigree connects, but instead of going for the cover, Trips signals Mcmahon into the ring while Trips grabs DA HAMMER. Okay, here’s the issue I have with this match ; the finish.

WHY DIDN’T TRIPLE H GO FOR THE COVER. This makes NO sense to his character whatsoever and well.. IN GENERAL. He could have just pinned HBK and THEN called Mcmahon into the ring. What, was he afraid Shawn was going to resurrect himself from the dead? We just saw him get CRUSHED by a brutal pedigree, and you’re telling me that you can’t just pin him ? I know WHY they booked it this way, but it’s just stupid. Cena hits the ring for the save and we have a no contest at 13-14ish minutes. REALLY good stuff by these two minus the ending of the match. Was entertained the entire time, and the series goes out with nobody on top, just the way it should be with these two

**** ¼*

_Triple H vs Shawn Michaels ; The Retrospective
_
When I was a kid ; there was no bigger match than HHH and Shawn Michaels duking it out in the main event. It’s probably because I come from a time where the was no Austin or Rock around, so the “dream” matchup I guess if you can call it that was Shawn and Hunter. Let’s talk about the facts of this series for a moment ; it’s perhaps the most controversial and most polarized (used that word about 378 times in this series review) series of matches in WWE History, with some people conceding the series to be one huge, overblown, pile of trash , while there are others who hold the series near and dear to their hearts as one of those feuds you just HAD to see when you were younger. 

I’m not going to sit here and lie to you guys ; I fall in the latter category of opinions on this series, and sometimes it might even be blatantly obvious from the fact that I’m a HHH ubermark and a HBK semi-mark, but all markdom aside I can clearly say this ; These two wrestled two top 75 matches EVER in their Summerslam 2002 and Raw 2003 matches, showing that they could work fantastically under the right circumstances. Which reminds me ; I should post my final rankings of the 10 aforementioned matches that I just reviewed in depth, here it is :

10. RAW 11/12/1997 : *N/A*
9. Tribute to the Troops 2005 : *** 1/4*
8. Armageddon 2002 3SOH : *** ½*
7. Royal Rumble 2004 LMS : *** ¾*
6. RAW 13/05/1996 : **** ¼*
5. RAW 27/03/06 : **** ¼*
4. Bad Blood 2004 HIAC : **** ½*
3. Taboo Tuesday 2004 : ******
2. Summerslam 2002 : ***** ½*
1. Raw 2003 : ***** ½*

So there you have it. Raw 97 isn’t rateable in the slightest, TTTT is just a very fun and short encounter with some ridiculous shit, ARM and RR are OMGZWESOEPIC HHH-HBK contests, the 96 and 06 Raw matches would probably be the favorites of some, the HIAC I really like but it’s a taste kind of thing, TT 04 is an awesome character driven match, SS 02 is built more on emotion, while RAW 03 happens to be the best WRESTLING match of the bunch, and closer to **** ¾ than one would think.

If you love over the top matches with a ton of ridiculous shit ; you’ll love a lot of matches in this series. As a matter of fact, this is one of the most diverse series’s of matches I’ve ever seen, with great PURE wrestling, great character driven wrestling, and over the top bullshit being thrown in as well for guys like me. I hope you enjoyed my little series that I had going here, now I’m off to watch some damn WCCW and ECW for the next bajillion years. Is this an all time great feud ? FUCK NO, but to deny it’s existence as a pretty damn good feud would in my mind be asinine. Some of the stuff may be really pretentious, but as a whole the series succeeds and manages to be great due to the fact that I think that every one of their matches is entertaining, and the fact that they’re one of the only combos to have two top 100 WWF/WWE matches in my mind.

OH YEAH… My personal favourite match of the series believe it or not ? Armageddon 2002.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, damn it's the WHOLE review. I'll read it and give some FEEDBACK considering that is required for all of us taking the fun time to do this. I was probably going to do some watching of my own atm. Hence the delay of review.

Lets hope everybody comes on soon to throw in their two cents at ya. 

Armageddon '02 blows away Bad Blood '04 in terms of lengthy review. Didn't see that coming :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't think I ever saw that HHH/HBK Raw '06 match. If I did I have no recollection of it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So, after much searching, I finally found Taker/Lesnar Hell in a Cell. Excited and can't wait to watch it, but at the same time I'm way too tired to watch it now. Gonna watch it tomorrow night after work, write up the review, and then Saturday I'll watch the final two Taker/Lesnar matches (MSG and NM 03) and get the review up by late Saturday and if not that, then Sunday at some point.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Review of the HBK-HHH feud was actually pretty good. Some of those matches I haven't seen in years though but I liked the 3 stages, LMS and my personal favorite the SS02 matches. I thinking as far as story line is concerned SS02 was their best match. As HBK was on his comeback in a match where H could break the rules and do whatever he wanted, so it made him even more of an underdog. I greatly disliked the TT contest because to me it seemed really pointless and the decision was inevitable. DAT HIAC though, is 50 minutes of chaos. I literally have only seen it twice and I own the DVD. 
.

The review sort of put the feud in perspective and didn't really blow anything out of proportion. One of the problems I had with the series is that you can tell both guys egos were in those matches. They used as much time as they could get (unnecessarily), they prolonged the feud (to trade wins and draws), and they were kind of well, pretentious as you put it. They were trying to make EPICS, and in some cases ended up with really good nonsensical brawls. I like those brawls lol. 

.
HBK did so many ridiculous spots in that feud trying to increase the quality of those matches... god bless his heart, as my mama would say. They should have wrestled more traditional matches (standard) and built up to the gimmicks as it would have told a better story long term. Especially considering H lost the first match to a traditional wrestling hold, but then again he looked strong in defeat and HBK looked great in winning even if it did come off "flukey". Perhaps they were unsure if he could perform without the crutch of hardcore rules yet because it was his comeback. He got a crutch at Survivor Series that year as well and shit got crucial after that. I don't think H lost another decision to Shawn after Armageddon, hell he was even pinning him in Elimination Chamber matches. 

I'll always remember it as the dominant feud on RAW for 2 years. It lead to probably no 5 star classics but some really good slugfests between two of the best ever.


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## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Bitnp that was an amazing review, I enjoyed it immensely. I think I'm gonna do the same as you and wait till im finished the whole series then do one massive review. 16 matches though for hunter/foley. Watching the street fight from 2000 now :mark:


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Foley vs Game Street Fight = :mark: :mark: :mark:

I bet BITNP will be a tad askew if he found out I'm watching Puro instead of Punk vs Cena V :hmm:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

**1/4 is too high for the tribute to the Troops match.


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## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

:mark: :mark: :mark: 

This match is so awesome my review of it will be longer then BITNP review of hhh/hbk 3 stages of hell. :hhh

No doubt he will, can you recommend so Puro for me? Need to get Into other promotions.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> This match is so awesome my review of it will be longer then BITNP review of hhh/hbk 3 stages of hell. :hhh
> 
> No doubt he will, can you recommend so Puro for me? Need to get Into other promotions.


Quick mention is to check out New Japan Pro Wrestling, aka the WWE of Japan in terms of popularity. They're having a stellar year with tons of must see matches. 

Head over to the Puro thread (non-spoilers one would be best) and ask for some recs. I'll give you some as will plenty of others who are very knowledgeable on the product & different promotions.


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## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Quick mention is to check out New Japan Pro Wrestling, aka the WWE of Japan in terms of popularity. They're having a stellar year with tons of must see matches.
> 
> Head over to the Puro thread (non-spoilers one would be best) and ask for some recs. I'll give you some as will plenty of others who are very knowledgeable on the product & different promotions.


I recently saw Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki, my god that was pretty awesome :mark: 

Im surprised i dont tune into NJPW more often since im fluent in Japanese, i consider myself the Antonio Cesaro of this thread im fluent in 4 languages  

No worries cheers after I'm done with hunter/Foley, ill slip over to the Puro thread.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I recently saw Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki, my god that was pretty awesome :mark:
> 
> Im surprised i dont tune into NJPW more often since im fluent in Japanese, i consider myself the Antonio Cesaro of this thread im fluent in 4 languages
> 
> No worries cheers after I'm done with hunter/Foley, ill slip over to the Puro thread.


:mark:

Stellar match. One of my favorites of the year. Top 3 for Puro, easily. (btw, watch that entire event. It's the best show of the year. Bar none.)

I'll pimp it out more when you head over the the Puro thread. (Y)


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Enjoyed the HHH/HBK review. Great work. Don't know if I just passed over this or not, but Shawn's leg was legit hurt for the TT match. Pretty great effort on his behalf, and made H's offense all the more realistic. Excited to get started on my project. We need to chronicle these so they don't get lost in the deluge of posts this thread amasses daily.


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## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> :mark:
> 
> Stellar match. One of my favorites of the year. Top 3 for Puro, easily. (btw, watch that entire event. It's the best show of the year. Bar none.)
> 
> I'll pimp it out more when you head over the the Puro thread. (Y)


No worries cheers mate, I actually have the whole show downloaded, however I only watched the main event because of the rave reviews. I better go and watch it then (Y)


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He can do a re-post for those who missed it. How about towards the end of the month/whenever, most are collectively finished, we can re-post or give a link leading to the reviews to let the open forum on them commence.

EDIT ~ King of Pro Wrestling = :mark: GOAT


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I might have my next review up soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll be reading. (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - _WWF Raw 8/1/94_

"No doubt about it you're looking at a ring full of a new generation". "RAZOR RAZOR RAZOR" . HES SO OVER. They square off, they tie up, reversal, and a big right hand from Ramon. Razor throws HBK to the outside. HBK up on the apron, knocked down twice by a big right hand from Razor. Quick paced in the early going. Irish whip into a reversal, shawn on the top rope, falls right into Razor's arms, into a FALLAWAY slam. 1..2....nearfall! Into an armbar ...Razor starts to slap HBK around...Michaels with the forearm to the head....Razor reverses ...HBK reverses ..Irish whip into a drop kick. 1..2...nearfall! This match is electric! Shawn right hooks Razor...interference from diesel outside...HBK with the sleeperhold...Razor fights out of it back to his feet ..Shawn clotheslins him. Back to the sleeperhold. Razor fights out of it and reverses, tosses him out to Diesel. Shawn makes his way to the top rope, but is hip tossed by Razor. Razor then applies the abdominal stretch, Michaels with a desperate maneouvor breaks free of it. Back and fourth, Razor has all the momentum, BACK BODY DROP. Irish whip into a BEARHUG. Michaels tries to break it with elbows to the head, and breaks the hold. Razor re-applies the hold. Razor really working the bearhug/HBK's back. Incredible back and fourth action. Diesel on the outside interferes and takes out Razor. Michaels working with Razor on the ring apron. Back inside the ring and Michaels going to work on Razor in the corner with punches. Irish whip into a elbow to the back of the head. Razor back on the offensive but it doesn't last long, HBK applies the sleeper hold on Razor, and HES GOING DOWN. RAZOR WONT GIVE UP. He breaks the hold and both men are down. Razor covers HBK ... 1...2...nearfall! What a match up. Irish whip, over michaels, both men collide in the middle of the ring. Razor with the combo punch. Then he whips HBK into the corner, and HBK falls upside down. CLOTHESLINE..1...2...nearfall! What does either man have to do to win this match. Michaels from the top rope, back body press, and Razor reverses the pin ..1.2..nearfall! Micahels trying for the Razors Edge, but Razor reverses into a back body drop. Diesel up on the apron...Razor punches him...then back to HBK then back to Diesel...Irish whip and Razor hits Diesel's big boot. 1...2...3. That's all she wrote. 

Absolutely solid match apart from the ending (although I can see why they did it). I was thoroughly entertained throughout and this was my only my second time watching it. 

*** 1/2 - *** 3/4. 

Go out and watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BACK BODY DROPS & BEARHUGS :mark:

Sounds legit. Finish is totally logical considering the upcoming Razor vs Diesel match at Summerslam.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That Shawn/Razor match on RAW: The Beginnings. One of the MANY reasons why people should own that set. True gem.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Who are these guys's best opponents (in terms of match quality) ?
> 
> Hulk Hogan *NO IDEA!*
> Randy Savage *NO IDEA!*
> ...


For the rest of the stuff discussed while I was away.

- Batista/HHH series: *** (WM), ***1/4 (BL), ****3/4 (VEN)

- AWESOME HBK/HHH series reviews. The 3SOH one perfectly explained how I feel. A complete mess but very fun to watch. Overrating the fuck out of HIAC, though. All the "intensity" and "hatred" was so forced. And most importantly, it was boring.

- My Orton/Cena series has not gotten started yet because I'm too busy watching the remains of 2005. Will likely start after the Eddie tribute show where the two have their first match ever. (not counting OVW) I'll try a new review style where I go through the match and add notes actively.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best opponents:

Hulk Hogan - Hard to say based on what I've seen. Usually only seen 2 or 3 matches from him against guys. Enjoyed most of his stuff with Flair. The WWF matches were never anything special but still fun. WCW produced some really good matches early on but like everything they kept putting them together and it ended up becoming redundant and shitty as they both got older.

Randy Savage - I do enjoy those Steamboat matches, so I'll go with him.

Ric Flair - Windham.

Steve Austin - Bret Hart.

The Rock - Steve Austin.

Chris Benoit - Finlay.

Eddie Guerrero - Mysterio.

Triple H - Foley.

Randy Orton - Benoit.

John Cena - HBK.

CM Punk - Cena.

The Undertaker - HBK.

Chris Jericho - Benoit.

Shawn Michaels - Undertaker.

Kurt Angle - Undertaker.

Brock Lesnar - Angle.

Big Show - Undertaker.

Rey Mysterio - Eddie Guerrero.

Mick Foley - Undertaker.

Batista - Undertaker.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I got 99 problems but Goldust in a prominent tag team ain't one of them (hopefully the review of the series eclipses my witty intro..)



> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust, No Mercy (10/20/02)*
> 
> Pretty much a perfect sub 10 minute opening tag that really establishes the chemistry both teams have and the character dynamic that will dominate their future matches. They work in a nice subtle story of Jericho avoiding Booker at all costs which is reminiscent of the classic Dutch Mantell/King Cobra vs Bobby Eaton/Sweet Brown Sugar 7/19/82 where Eaton is a chickenshit heel the entire match with Mantell obsessed with getting his hands on him.
> 
> ...





> *Chris Jericho, Christian & Victoria vs Booker T, Goldust & Trish Stratus, Raw (10/21/02)*
> 
> Not a great match, but its a fun way to escalate the growing tension between the two teams as well as get some extra heat onto Jericho and Christian for their treatment of Trish during the match. Booker plays FIP this time and takes a regulatory workover and Goldust off the hot tag plays his part to a tee and strings together some energetic offence. The butt-bump to Victoria was a personal highlight and it really illustrates how the content on TV has changed from back then to today. Trish making the blind-tag and scoring a nearfall on Jericho was the sort of comedy schtick that works for a heel like Jericho, rather than making him look pitiful. Christian taking the time to trip Trish as well as Jericho clotheslining her and immediately locking on the Liontamer version of the Walls of Jericho and keeping the hold on post-finish did its job in getting him some heat and adding a bit more fuel to the program. Good booking to make Jericho look reprehensible whilst still holding two wins over Booker & Goldust.





> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust, Raw (12/2/02)*
> 
> Honestly this goes even less than No Mercy, but I loved it. Starts out as Booker vs Jericho but both partners get involved and it leads to an impromptu tag title match and the crowd are molten for Booker and Goldust and they work a frantic sprint match that gets you believing they're gonna win the belts. A couple of spots from No Mercy are replicated, namely the comical Shattered Dreams in the corner followed by Jericho being flung into Christian's privates leading to a great nearfall that the crowd groans at when it only gets 2. Couple of fun comedy spots like Goldust breaking up a huddle on the outside by bouncing their heads off of one another and Christian trying to emulate Jericho's rope knee strike and missing leading to Booker tagging in Goldust.
> 
> The finishing run however is where this really kicks into another gear. Christian and Jericho bump madly for Goldust who's incredible off the hot tag, and Christian in particular takes a spectacular looking bump off the ropes to the floor. They tease Booker and Goldust winning the belts on a couple of occasions, with Christians' attempt at using the belts backfiring and Jericho being saved from a pin by Christian yanking the ref to the floor. They've got the frantic pace nailed to a tee and the crowd are invested in everything and it leads to a simialr finish to No Mercy with Jericho using the belt and lionsault combo to pin Booker behind the ref's back. The perfect 7 minute tag to get across the cowardly nature of the champions and Booker and Goldust as the team the crowd are dieing to see win the belts. Great setup for the Armageddon Fatal Four Way with Jericho & Christian defending against 2 teams they've screwed over in the past few weeks.





> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Dudley Boyz vs William Regal & Lance Storm vs Booker T & Goldust, Armageddon (12/15/02)*
> 
> Storm/Regal and Dudleyz are non-factors here, neither really do much and both are out of the match before its even really begun. This means Jericho/Christian vs Goldust/Booker gets around 14 minutes and they don't disappoint. Goldust is the FIP here after taking his great crossbody bump to the floor and both Jericho and Christian waste little time in isolating him and working him over. They redo the spot from No Mercy where Christian attacks Booker on the apron to halt a potential tag to Booker only for another mistake from the champions to allow Goldust to finally make the tag.
> 
> The finishing stretch here is probably the best so far. There's a really great subtle callback spot where Jericho is able to finally counter Bookers' Alabama Slam after being hit with it twice in prior matches and it leads to a Walls of Jericho nearfall. There's numerous teases of Booker/Goldust getting the win including a great nearfall of the scissor kick when Christian distracts the ref for a crucial few seconds. Booker kicking out of the title belt/lionsault combo which had put both he and Goldust away in separate matches was a great moment that made you believe they were going to finally win, and sure enough Jericho is rattled long enough to lose his concentration and walk straight into a Book-End for the 1-2-3. Great moment when Booker and Goldust finally win the belts, having been screwed out of the win in two prior matches.





> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust, Raw (12/23/02)*
> 
> Best match of the series so far imo. Gets around 15 minutes and they work two FIP segments as well as Jericho & Christian being arguably their most dastardly so far in their quest to regain the tag belts. Whole theme of the match revolves around Goldust being called out by Jericho as the weak link in the chain and they work it wonderfully into his opening shine segment, his FIP segment and the finishing run with constant teases that Jericho will outwrestle him at the most crucial of times.
> 
> ...





> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust, Raw (6/2/03)*
> 
> Honestly a by the numbers tag. Christian/Booker is an IC title feud and Jericho has a post match angle with Goldberg, but in between its pretty much a collection of some spots from their series in late 2002 and not much else. Only goes about 7 minutes and there's not much in the way of a FIP segment or real babyface comeback.


So yeah, excellent series which really demonstrates the potential tag team wrestling has when its given prominence and wrestlers are given the chance to utlise the southern tag formula and captivate a crowd with it. I think I might just prefer Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT more as far as an overlooked tag team series goes, but they have the advantage of their matches going longer whereas BookerDust vs Christian/Jericho was pretty much the definition of making sub 10 minute matches incredibly entertaining and packed full of storytelling and character work.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, I think the only one of those I've seen is the Armageddon fourway, which, watching it isolated, seems really out of place. I had no idea this series was that good. I'll definitely be going back and viewing the series in chronological order, because it sounds like it was a blast.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...show-discussion-thread-1061.html#post12358467

Links to all the matches are there. No Mercy and Armageddon are on Dailymotion as well separately.

It certainly was mate. Shorter matches generally but they kept enough structure and had a great babyface/heel dynamic that not getting 15 minutes plus regularly didn't hurt them.

I'd also recommend the Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle series from May-July 2003. They have 3 great TV matches (5/22 being incredible) and a Ladder match at Judgement Day. Story is that as we get closer to Angle's return to Smackdown (he was still assumed to be a heel), Team Angle grow obsessed with regaining the tag titles by the time he returns to impress him. Last match IIRC is the week before Angle's scheduled return. Eddie is amazing, Tajiri isn't far behind and the tag structure allows Haas & Benjamin to flourish in ways they might not be able to in singles matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks for the links. I haven't seen the Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT matches either. I wasn't watching as frequently between 2000-2003. Bits and pieces here and there, but not nearly as much as I was in the 90s and 2004-on. Sounds like I missed some good stuff, particularly on SD.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

People obsess over the Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio matches, but personally I prefer Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian, Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle & MNM vs The Hardyz as far as a series of tag matches go about. Sadly it seems WWE removed the links from youtube, as only 5/29 Smackdown and Judgement Day 2003 Ladder Match are available from the series. I have no idea if Cal or anyone else handy with footage can track the other two matches down, since I watched them a few months back on youtube but it appears WWE has removed a mass of matches/promos in the past month.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Batista v Triple H - Backlash '05*
Couldn't remember much from this match and heard Cal say it was good so decided to give it a watch. It is good. Not great or anything but it's fundamentally sound and features a solid performance from HHH. The Pedigree is a big story in the match so they tease it early and often. Hunter is unable to hit it so he targets Batista's back with a focused workover. Spinebuster into the barricade was a nice spot to set up the control segment. Unfortunately working FIP was never Batista's forte so it's just a good showing of HHH working from the top rather than something truly engrossing. Batista's long-term selling isn't the best either, neither are his comebacks, but considering how green he was at the time it's a perfectly fine main event title match. Batista's high elevation backdrops are just about the best thing he does in this. Eventually Trips hits the Pedigree and has Batista beat but the ref is out of it. It's not a big dramatic moment or anything but at least it keeps that element of the feud alive for the next match. Decent finish I suppose.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Those bastards. I honestly need to start a list of stuff to watch. It's hard for me to track stuff down, though, and then actually find the time to sit and watch everything once I do. 

What are your thoughts on this weekend's PPV? You optimistic about any of the matches? Personally, I think the three main events (Show/Sheamus, Cena/Ziggler, TLC 6-man) will deliver. Rest of the show (Mexicans/Scholars, Cesaro uppercutting the shit out of Truth, etc) will be fun, but nothing special.

edit - wow I remember absolutely nothing about that Backlash match other than the finish w/Batista Bomb out of the corner.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

6 man TLC has my interest. Bryan is great and underrated in a more violent environment, Ambrose is a great character worker and should hopefully shine in a WWE setting where he'll rely more on mannerisms and selling than excessive brutality, Rollins has potential but he should be a fun bumper and hopefully will match up well with Bryan, they had great chemistry in ROH anyway. Hoping they'll work it like a pseudo 80s territory brawl with a frantic pace and hate-filled brawling, but with WWE you always expect them to be more restrained and relient on the weapons.

Ziggler/Cena..eh ladder matches generally don't excite me beyond a lot of impressive bumps. Sheamus/Morrison and Benoit/Jericho are the standout exceptions. If they work something closer to that then there's a chance I'll really dig it. It does have a nice dynamic as well with Ziggler needing the win and the chronic fear that Cena will just win the match and piss off numerous fans.

Sheamus/Show should be worked like their previous matches, with smart use of the chairs stip. If they make the chair stip the entire focus of the match it could make it the lesser match in the series, but I have faith.

Tables matches are a gimmick I hate. Especially when you have numerous teases with nothing happening. I fully believe it should have been reserved for the Dudleys alone and probably done in an elimination style. Can't recall ever seeing a good tables match and it doesn't really play to Mysterio's strengths.

I'll try and catch the Cesaro match, though Truth sucks horribly and they haven't really given anyone a reason to care about the feud outside of one promo on Smakdown. Cesaro should be great but Truth is piss poor at engaging a crowd and I can't recall him ever selling that well. Hopefully Cesaro beats him and works a better babyface worker who can build a match and sell very well soon.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've never done this, but I'm going to project my star ratings for this weekend's TLC PPV.

Wade Barrett vs Kofi Kingston : **

Neither man have shown me that they can consistently be great workers, especially Barrett. Expect this to be a match with a ton of leaping around by Kofi and alot of bland offense by Barrett. Not expecting anything from this TBH.

Antonio Cesaro vs R-Truth : ** 1/4

Expecting another Cesaro showcase here. Just Cesaro beating the shit out of Truth and hitting the neutralizer for the win. R-Truth doesn't get in too much here and rightfully so (BECAUSE HE IS GARBAGE)

Tables Match ; Luchadors vs Rhodes Scholars : ** 3/4

Tables matches are never great. I don't think I've ever seen a "great" tables match in my entire life, but tbh this one has the potential to be the best tables match ever due to the agility in this match. Sin Cara could definitely fuck this one up though, so don't be surprised if this is like **.

Ladder Match ; John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler : *** 1/4

I think these two will put on a pretty good match, but nothing that's OMGSOAWESOMEZ. I don't think Cena will wrestle a pure ladder match very good, but I believe that Ziggler will bump around and fall off enough ladders to make this entertaining. There certainly is enough drama here to sustain however.

TLC Match ; The Shield vs Team Hell No & Ryback : *** 1/4

Yeah, so this will be Ryback's best match ever. I believe that this match will be great because it allows Ryback to just destroy people while masking his deficiencies as a wrestler. Bryan , Kane, Ambrose and Rollins will always be good, and with a ton of weapons thrown in it should be super fun.

Chairs Match ; Big Show vs Sheamus : *** 3/4

Yeah, I'm expecting this to fucking RULE. This match should be the main event, and if they put Rybotch as the main event it will be a slap in the face and reassurance that the WHC is fucking WORTHLESS. Two big stiff guys nailing each other with chairs? FUCK YEAH.

Expecting a decent show, nothing special. FUN.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Ziggler could be great. Expect Dolph to take some ridiculous bumps and I don't know, I just think it could be different to the typical WWE spotfest ladder match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Ladder Match ; John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler : *** 1/4
> 
> I think these two will put on a pretty good match, but nothing that's OMGSOAWESOMEZ. *I don't think Cena will wrestle a pure ladder match very good*, but I believe that Ziggler will bump around and fall off enough ladders to make this entertaining. There certainly is enough drama here to sustain however.


In a way that's what I'm hoping for. Not a fan of the typical WWE ladder match filled with high spots. Cena's involvement could make it more to my taste.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The tables match is an elimination match, isn't it? Thought that's what I read. If not, LOL.

Hoping Ziggler doesn't kill himself.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If it is it'll hopefully make it less terrible, tables matches in general are just irritating. Even if you wrestle it with 'perfect psychology' it still disrupts the flow of the match and just makes it a collection of near table bumps before the finish. 

I suppose Cena/Ziggler could be more story driven than a typical WWE ladder match, but I'm just not convinced. Sheamus/Morrison proved you can work a smart and engaging match which steals the show off its own merit without the need for an assortment of choreographed spots, sadly however it remains an exception to the norm for WWE ladder matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> People obsess over the Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio matches, but personally I prefer Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian, Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle & MNM vs The Hardyz as far as a series of tag matches go about. Sadly it seems WWE removed the links from youtube, as only 5/29 Smackdown and Judgement Day 2003 Ladder Match are available from the series. I have no idea if Cal or anyone else handy with footage can track the other two matches down, since I watched them a few months back on youtube but it appears WWE has removed a mass of matches/promos in the past month.


Which matches exactly? Depending on when they happened I might have them somewhere on disc and can get them online .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I miss Morrison


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I should have made it more clear that Cena won't be the problem at TLC ; It'll be Ziggler. The reason I feel this way is because while Cena will probably go for a more story driven ladder match given his status in the company and skill set, Ziggler will probably just be looking for "OMGBUMPZNSPOTZ" to sell from Cena on top of ladders and such. Something about the clash of styles in a ladder match to me just scream "meh". I think they'll deliver SOMETHING however.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> Which matches exactly? Depending on when they happened I might have them somewhere on disc and can get them online .


5/22/03 and 7/3/03 Smackdown are the two missing matches from the series. 5/29 is up on youtube and dailymotion, as is the Judgement Day 03 Ladder Match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ziggler better do something involving an over-rotated monkey flip and a ladder.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Eddie is fucking spectacular in those matches against WGTT. It was those matches that sold me on him being a legit great tag team wrestler. As in, maybe top 10 tag wrestlers in US history. He and Tajiri also totally make that ladder match. Haas and Benjamin are utterly lost and look shit scared the whole time. Two lesser guys in there with them and it would've been a complete trainwreck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> 5/22/03 and 7/3/03 Smackdown are the two missing matches from the series. 5/29 is up on youtube and dailymotion, as is the Judgement Day 03 Ladder Match.


I has em. Uploaded them for the wwf/e poll a couple of years ago, but yeah, MU died and so went my links . I'll have em online 2omrrow for whoever wants to see em.

Tag tables matches have mostly been fun in the past from the ones I remember (nothing from after 02 :lmao). Dudleys/Hardys at RR 2000 was great, legit ***1/2 match. Dudleys/Rock handicap match (not quite a tag match, but it had ONE team in it so fuck off) was really good. I remember a handicap match against Kane in 2000 as well but I don't know if it was tables. Its good anyway, check it out fuckers. Dudleys/Hardys on Smackdown EXTREME in 2001 is good. Dudleys/BOD/E&C from NWO 01 is a bunch of fun. Survivor Series 02 6 man tables match is fun, not the best, but fun. There's a tag team tables elimination gauntlet match thingy from either Unforgiven or No Mercy in 2000 as well that was fun. EDIT: Oh yeah, Vengeance 02 Eddie & Benoit Vs someone and someone is good. Bubba and... Jeff? Spike? Something like that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I remember sterling pimping them and Eddie in particular and I was still blown away by the matches and his performance. He sells superbly, especially taking the time to sell during the hot tag and babyface comeback section, he's a really great apron worker in the 2nd match where Tajiri is FIP and totally is able to make himself and his hot tag the centre of the match and its just indescribeably great. Can't forget about his post match actions in the 7/3/03 match either. Amazing performance across the board.

That hurricanrana counter he hits off a leg sweep attempt is bonkers as well. I remember audibly yelling 'oh shit' when I saw it.

EDIT: Thanks a million Cal. Hopefully people will heed the praise and watch the series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I might actually give them a watch for this series thing. I don't remember ANYTHING about them, and I honestly probably didn't pay much attention to them during the poll. Are these all of them:

5/18/03 (Judgment Day Ladder)
5/22/03 
5/29/03
7/3/03


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DO IT.

I want to read more reviews like *WOOLCOCK*'s. COMMENCE WITH THE TAG REVIEWING.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah I remember sterling pimping them and Eddie in particular and I was still blown away by the matches and his performance. He sells superbly, especially *taking the time to sell during the hot tag and babyface comeback section*, he's a really great apron worker in the 2nd match where Tajiri is FIP and totally is able to make himself and his hot tag the centre of the match and its just indescribeably great. Can't forget about his post match actions in the 7/3/03 match either. Amazing performance across the board.
> 
> *That hurricanrana counter he hits off a leg sweep attempt is bonkers as well.* I remember audibly yelling 'oh shit' when I saw it.


I wrote up those matches a few years back, and I'm pretty sure I talked about those bolded parts as well. I've also said it before, but Eddie is one of the best apron workers ever. From anywhere. Probs doesn't mean much to most people, but I dig shit like that, and it's one of many reasons why I think he's an all-time top 10 wrestler.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> I might actually give them a watch for this series thing. I don't remember ANYTHING about them, and I honestly probably didn't pay much attention to them during the poll. Are these all of them:
> 
> 5/18/03 (Judgment Day Ladder)
> 5/22/03
> ...


Yup, those be all of them. At least the ones sterling nominated anyway, but I don't think they had any other.

Btw I might watch the rest of the Rockers/Brainbusters series. Enjoyed doing a series and I've already seen 3 of the matches recently so would only have to watch 5 or 6. In a real tag team wrestling groove at the moment. Plus its fucking Arn & Tully vs Shawn and Marty. A scientist should clarify that is a formula that = awesome tag wrestling.



WANDERLEI SILVA CHRISTMAS ACCENT said:


> I wrote up those matches a few years back, and I'm pretty sure I talked about those bolded parts as well. I've also said it before, but Eddie is one of the best apron workers ever. From anywhere. Probs doesn't mean much to most people, but I dig shit like that, and it's one of many reasons why I think he's an all-time top 10 wrestler.



Nah I understand where you're coming from. It just goes to show how talented and charismatic the man was as a performer that he can control a match from the apron as well as the ring. He's just a genius who mastered the craft and could make any situation/angle work effortlessly.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, okay now I really need to watch these Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What do you think of Flair as an apron worker, Andy? Guy always seems to be doing something in tag matches I've seen from him (especially in the later part of his career where he was a crazy old bastard).


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

FuckChristmas said:


> What do you think of Flair as an apron worker, Andy? Guy always seems to be doing something in tag matches I've seen from him (especially in the later part of his career where he was a crazy old bastard).


I had never really thought about it before, but yeah, Flair's a really good apron worker. Constantly running distractions, throwing cheap shots, shit talking everybody, and now and again he'll thrust his pelvis at a fattie in the crowd. 

Flair's a great tag worker in general. It kind of gets overlooked since he is who he is and when you think Ric Flair you think of his singles matches. Bit like Jordan. Most people will think of Jordan dunking, but he had that jump shot as well. 

Or an analogy you'll understand -- McDonald's gives you diarrhoea, so you tend to forget it'll cave your heart in as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> 5/22/03 and 7/3/03 Smackdown are the two missing matches from the series. 5/29 is up on youtube and dailymotion, as is the Judgement Day 03 Ladder Match.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi...tajiri-smackdown-5-22-2003_sport#.UMuTz29hCWY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x94wgx_sd-03-07-03-eddie-guerrero-tajiri-v_sport#.UMuT529hCWY



FuckChristmas said:


> :lmao


Also, that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT matches were pretty good. I'm not much of a tag team wrestling fan (I understand its importance and all, but usually it's not my thing) so that's not often I say that. I only remember the ladder match and Eddie cheating to win on a few occasions, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi...tajiri-smackdown-5-22-2003_sport#.UMuTz29hCWY
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x94wgx_sd-03-07-03-eddie-guerrero-tajiri-v_sport#.UMuT529hCWY
> 
> ...


Well that saves me time uploading .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi...tajiri-smackdown-5-22-2003_sport#.UMuTz29hCWY
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x94wgx_sd-03-07-03-eddie-guerrero-tajiri-v_sport#.UMuT529hCWY


Awesome. Can't see why they didn't show up before when I searched though. Everyone watch those please.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Sheamus v Big Show - Hell in a Cell '12*
Been wanting to see this for a while and figured now was as good a time as any ahead of the PPV this weekend. Everyone on here has been pimping it as a great big man match. Sometimes that can work against a match for me because I went into it with way higher expectations than I ever would have. Fortunately it didn't disappoint, not at all. Sheamus is fucking fantastic working from the bottom in this. The first half of the match is slow, but it's not bad slow. Every brief flurry of offense Sheamus musters is full of intensity and really gets across how hard he's having to work to get anything in and just how dominant Big Show can be. The striking is good from both guys and Show hits some nifty stuff to keep things interesting. Just when I was starting to lose a bit of interest and think to myself 'yeah they need to pick up the pace soon' they did just that. From thereon in it's pure awesomeness. White Noise on Show is always going to be impressive. Sheamus kicking out of the first KO punch legitimately shocked me and the Brogue Kick was another great nearfall. And OMFG the finish. :mark: Great match. Great performance from Sheamus in particular. Can't think of a better Big Show match other than last man standing v Taker. This is comfortably in my top 10 for the year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I still haven't seen that. I've heard nothing but good things. I'll try searching for it now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

It's on dailymotion.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah its one of the finest matches of the year, which says a lot because the best matches this year have been truly special. The sort of match which demonstrates what Show brings to the table as a worker. Sometimes his slow and methodical style can be divisive but it really complimented Sheamus' underdog performance perfectly. Everytime Sheamus would get a bit of offence he'd be tossed out of the ring or beaten down and would have to find another way to mount a comeback. Build throughout the middle into the finishing stretch with the pace quickening as Sheamus begins to find an in-road was super and the finishing stretch with both finishers being kicked out of was majestic, the 1st KO punch especially as the Brogue kick kickout was sort of a giveaway afterwards. Finish as you mentioned is terrific and timed to absolute perfection.

Makes me think how good Sheamus vs Henry could be if Henry is given a renewed push when he hopefully comes back. I wouldn't him being a badass babyface for a while but I'm hoping he gets a heel run again in the near future because he's too damn good as the monster heel for a good/great babyface to work off of.

Personally speaking I'd probably have it top 5 for the year. Only Lesnar/Cena stands out as a match I'd certainly rank ahead of it. Punk/Bryan OTL and Bryan/Sheamus ER are two matches I could definitely see a case for as being better than Show/Sheamus, but they're very different matches and I'd have to rewatch all 3 to be sure. Punk/Henry 4/2 is an excellent match based on an almost similar formula, only Show/Sheamus has a definitive end even if I'm a big fan of how they worked a non decisive finish in a creative and smart way instead of using a cheap tactic. Punk/Cena NOC again I could see a case for, especially because its such a great take on the MITB match between them with the roles reversed and the story calling for Punk to control the match and find a way to put away Cena. On first watch I think I took to Sheamus/Show a bit more, especially for how they worked the finishing stretch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Henry earlier in the year was great too but this was on another level. I don't know if there's been a better finishing stretch in a match this year. Don't think so.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Henry and Sheamus had at least two really good matches in 2011.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Personally speaking I'd probably have it top 5 for the year. Only Lesnar/Cena stands out as a match I'd certainly rank ahead of it. Punk/Bryan OTL and Bryan/Sheamus ER are two matches I could definitely see a case for as being better than Show/Sheamus, but they're very different matches and I'd have to rewatch all 3 to be sure. Punk/Henry 4/2 is an excellent match based on an almost similar formula, only Show/Sheamus has a definitive end even if I'm a big fan of how they worked a non decisive finish in a creative and smart way instead of using a cheap tactic. Punk/Cena NOC again I could see a case for, especially because its such a great take on the MITB match between them with the roles reversed and the story calling for Punk to control the match and find a way to put away Cena. On first watch I think I took to Sheamus/Show a bit more, especially for how they worked the finishing stretch.


I know you've spoken about it before, but clearly I have forgotten. What are your thoughts on HHH/Taker HIAC? Didn't see it among your MOTY candidates so I figured I'd ask.



Saint Dick said:


> I don't know if there's been a better finishing stretch in a match this year. Don't think so.


Starting it now. :hb


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I can definitely see a case for Show/Sheamus as a complete match being better, though something about Punk/Henry made me think of it as truly special when I first saw it. I'll maintain that the finish is a plus for the match and a great payoff to the story and Punk comeback, rather than a detriment. But I'll concede the way Show/Sheamus payed off their story with the finishing stretch was truly incredible.

Aye I recall their matches in 2011 being very good, but unless my memory is bad they didn't really get a lot of time. I enjoyed the matches for the length they were, especially as they were more brawl orientated which is exactly what I'd want from Sheamus and Henry. But I'd love to see them get a proper amount of time to really work a match as opposed to shorter matches which feel more angle driven than actual matches (even if they were really really good).

Forgot Regal/Ambrose when bringing up essential 2012 viewing. Not as good as Show/Sheamus, but its a majestic way to cap off a truly amazing feud which lasted close to a year. Regals' selling is beautiful and he's as evil and sadistic in the chain wrestling as I've seen. Ambrose to his credit really steps up on his end and delivers a truly fantastic heel performance and the workover of Regals' ear is truly disgusting and surreal to see in a WWE setting.



The Reindeer Killer said:


> I know you've spoken about it before, but clearly I have forgotten. What are your thoughts on HHH/Taker HIAC? Didn't see it among your MOTY candidates so I figured I'd ask.


Not a fan personally speaking. I appreciate the symbolism and way it played off of 4 years of Wrestlemania matches and moments, but personally speaking I thought it went past the balance of emotive WWE storytelling and into a more melodramatic and for lack of a better word 'cheesy' atmosphere. I have no doubt it was a truly incredible spectacle live in person, but I just don't think they possess that dynamic character contrast and chemistry that makes Taker/HBK brilliant and a better example of WWE Main Event Storytelling done right.

I didn't think it was awful, but I'm definitely in the camp who isn't a fan. Not going to pretend I don't see why its incredibly popular though. Matches like that however are always going to be polarising. You either get caught up in the emotion and symbolism or you find it unbearable and over the top. I just happen to fall into the latter side.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Great reviews from woolcock


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Not a fan personally speaking. I appreciate the symbolism and way it played off of 4 years of Wrestlemania matches and moments, but personally speaking I thought it went past the balance of emotive WWE storytelling and into a more melodramatic and for lack of a better word 'cheesy' atmosphere. I have no doubt it was a truly incredible spectacle live in person, but I just don't think they possess that dynamic character contrast and chemistry that makes Taker/HBK brilliant and a better example of WWE Main Event Storytelling done right.
> 
> I didn't think it was awful, but I'm definitely in the camp who isn't a fan. Not going to pretend I don't see why its incredibly popular though. Matches like that however are always going to be polarising. You either get caught up in the emotion and symbolism or you find it unbearable and over the top. I just happen to fall into the latter side.





WOOLCOCK the night after WrestleMania said:


> At times I feared the whole HBK/HHH dynamic would get too sappy and maybe feel like too forced of an attempt to incorporate drama...*but to be fair everything after the superkick into pedigree combo felt excellent.* *Bit where Shawn collapses in the corner potentially out of guilt in hitting Taker was rather tremendous. **Also liked how they subtly added doubt as to his alleigance with Taker first shoving him out of the way in the early going and then HHH telling him to end the match when HBK was concerned the beating was too much.* Callback spot to last year's finish was nice though I would have liked HHH to finally hit the sledgehammer to break the hold, w/e. Whole finishing sequence was great though and was *another damn good dramatic finish.* Will say once again though I was convinced HBK was gonna SCM Taker at the end, just the way they showed the camera angle of him being in line with the Tombstone had me in the back of my mind thinking 'Screwjob'.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL those are the feelings I currently hold for that match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


>


Well fuck me, amazing how much things change on a rewatch 

I was about to go and search for the pro Marufuji comments as a retort but then remembered those were from Andy and not you :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Well fuck me, amazing how much things change on a rewatch
> 
> I was about to go and search for the pro Marufuji comments as a retort but then remembered those were from Andy and not you :lmao


I hated that piece of shit Marufuji ever since the first time I watched his awful ass.  If the HHH/Taker HIAC was a Marufuji match it'd probably be one of his top 20 matches.

I SHOULD WATCH SOME REY/PUNKS TODAY. Key word is 'should'.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

FCW - Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins - August 14 said:


> PRE-MATCH HYPE FROM REGAL~! :mark::mark: This guy needs to be on fucking television, they need him more than ever, tbh. Anyway.
> 
> In the early going, a lot of it is just showcasing the advantages both men have over one another, at least that is what it seemed like. Rollins, the more physically gifted athlete and arguably the better technician. However, Ambrose has a certain savviness and an air of confidence in and around the ring and he uses that, as well as obviously being talented. A monumental slap from Ambrose as well as the countered attempt of a suicide dive by Rollins shows that. Speaking of that suicide dive, that thanking the lord motif that Dean did afterwards was hilarious. On the subject of little things Ambrose does - I absolutely adore the way he lets his body become all limp, loose and uncoordinated after being dazed, adds another level of realism and belief in to the match. Just the way he flops around, almost as if he's legitimately been dazed, it's awesome.
> 
> ...


My first ever review for a match  Well, other than just posting the odd sentence about what I thought of a match and what have you. Enjoy, I guess? :lmao If anyone has a differing opinion or is intrigued by the match and has a question or whatever, then feel free to post whatever the hell you want. Who am I to stop ya :side:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm currently halfway through the Allmark/Mason series of 2011. Seabs is gonna be one happy camper when he sees I finally watched it some 10 months after I originally said I would. Its fucking beautiful stuff so far. A couple of gentleman esque matches before Mason turns at the end of the 2nd match, and the third match is so far really feels like a Finlay/Regal esque heel performance from Mason. He's one vicious bastard.

EDIT: Great review *FluxCapacitator* . I remember Seabs pimping the Ambrose/Rollins series and Rollins/Sandow last summer when he watched a ton of FCW. Once again I said I'd watch them and I still somehow never got around to it. What is it with me promising Seabs I'll watch something and never getting around to it, ffs.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The finish of Show/Sheamus is fucking awesome :lmao


----------



## AliMMA83 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey guys, what would be the appropriate section to ask for wrestling torrent websites invites ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm guessing here:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wrestling-multimedia/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching the second disc of "The Triumph and Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling" now. Featuring a ton of matches from guys I haven't even heard of before. For those who have watched the whole DVD, what were your thoughts on the matches in particular ?

DAT DOC <3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Great review fluxcapacitor. Will have to check out that match soon./


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Watching the second disc of "The Triumph and Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling" now. Featuring a ton of matches from guys I haven't even heard of before. For those who have watched the whole DVD, what were your thoughts on the matches in particular ?
> 
> DAT DOC <3


Pretty bad. I got a kick out of seeing guys to bring back the nostalgic factor, but nothing stood out as a whole. Flair vs Kerry put me to sleep. Until the finish where it bred the epic Von Erichs vs Freebirds feud. (Y) @ the set having a match with THE MISSING LINK.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Can someone give me general ratings for Ambrose matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GREAT.

But seriously, the original trilogy vs Black imo went - ***1/2, ****, ****1/2.

Regal matches were in the ****1/2+ range. Those are his most raved matches while in FCW.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Sounds great. How about his series with Rollins?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Black = Rollins. Sometimes I can't help but let the indie name come first.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Ohh my bad. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck it, throwing five dollars in and getting TLC on sunday.

I want the six man match to be like that Resilience/No Remorse Corps match from Death Before Dishonor '07. ERICK STEVENS FTW~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> Ohh my bad. :lmao


Cheap plug to go watch matches while he worked as Tyler Black...:hayley1



Clark Griswold said:


> Fuck it, throwing five dollars in and getting TLC on sunday.
> 
> I want the six man match to be like that Resilience/No Remorse Corps match from Death Before Dishonor '07. ERICK STEVENS FTW~!


30 minutes long extended brawl? :mark:

I miss Erick Stevens. Too bad he started to suck, lose interest in wrestling, and became a body builder/Mr. Olympia guy.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Rollins/Ambrose from June this year for the fcw title this year is awesome too. ****1/4. Fantastic how ambrose completely changes the gameplan halfway through and battles through the shoulder pain which cost him against Regal. Iirc someone (maybe seabs) loves the match they had a month or two after the original series as well but my memory is hazy. Watching ambrose in fcw is something i need to revisit when i get back to a computer.

Watched the Jericho doc last night. Think i prefer it to the punk one but Jericho was my favourite growing up so im probably biased. Looking forward to seeing the matches over the weekend at least. Also got smackdown 09-10, best ppv matches 09-10 & 11 and best of raw/smackdown 11 on blu ray and the biggest little man set on dvd. Splurged my wages a bit on silvervision


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Cheap plug to go watch matches while he worked as Tyler Black...:hayley1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love watching that match. Don't like everybody in it, but I find it so entertaining. Give me that on Sunday, PLZ.

Yeah, I heard he was into body building now. :/ I marked for him in '07 though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Biggest Little Man :mark:

Watch NOW

EDIT ~ I even liked Davey at the time. Match was (Y).

Stevens vs Strong matches are the BEST. So damn insane.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Big Show v Sheamus - Survivor Series '12*
Didn't expect them to top their Hell in a Cell effort and they didn't, but in truth they didn't set out to. They held back the big nearfalls and went with a non-finish to transition to this Sunday's gimmick rematch. That said, they still showcased plenty of the goodness that made their previous match great. Show catching Sheamus coming off the top with a spear and the electric chair struck me as spots that I've seen a number of times but felt bigger because of the guys involved. They really do work well together. Looking forward to TLC, can't see it being anything less than good unless they make a total mess of the stip.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stevens/Strong stuff owns!

Cody Rhodes' mustache...holy shit. There's no doubt in my mind he's done porn now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haha. I made the assimilation that he's WWE's Joey Ryan. Both major companies in the US need a sleazy guy with a mustache. :side:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Who makes up The Shield? 

Need to see these Ambrose matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, & Roman Reigns.

Reigns used to be known as Leakee in FCW.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not inspired whatsoever to watch these WCCW matches. I've hit one of my "walls" when there's something I really wanna go watch (The RVD set) , but I have to go watch this set first, FML. Thankfully for 2 and 3 disc reviews I don't do writeups for every individual match (would take me a damn week to review a set then), and I get can through the disc tonight, but FUCK.

@*Brye* , this is COMPLETELY off topic, but why aren't you a Patriots fan if you're from Boston ? This is coming from a big time Pats fan from Canada, and since I live on the East Coast, ever since I was younger we would ALWAYS get the Patriots game on cable. Once digital cable came into fruition, the range of teams rooted for in Canada increased exponentially, but before that there were quite a few Pats fans.

We have SO many fucking bandwagon fans though, unreal.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Haha. I made the assimilation that he's WWE's Joey Ryan. Both major companies in the US need a sleazy guy with a mustache. :side:


:lmao that's an awesome comparison.

I'm loving Team Rhodes Scholars. And the whole tag division, tbh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> @*Brye* , this is COMPLETELY off topic, but why aren't you a Patriots fan if you're from Boston ? This is coming from a big time Pats fan from Canada, and since I live on the East Coast, ever since I was younger we would ALWAYS get the Patriots game on cable. Once digital cable came into fruition, the range of teams rooted for in Canada increased exponentially, but before that there were quite a few Pats fans.
> 
> We have SO many fucking bandwagon fans though, unreal.


I'm a Panthers fan first but I still like the Pats. They're my second favorite team ever since I started following the Panthers in '02. Still a big Sox fan (also like the Mets) and a Celts fans (but like the Nuggets more). As I got older I began to broaden my horizons a bit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two of my favorites. Only came natural, haha.

Did you see the handicap match between International Airstrike vs 3MB on Main Event this week? It was quite fun.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Two of my favorites. Only came natural, haha.
> 
> Did you see the handicap match between International Airstrike vs 3MB on Main Event this week? It was quite fun.


Missed Main Event this week.  Gonna have to watch that though because I like everyone involved other than Jinder, and I can even kinda tolerate him now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tolerable with the group. I agree. He's a non-factor now that Drew is back to working. He seriously commands every portion of the match he's in. You forget about Mahal easily. It's great.

Match got nearly 9 minutes. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

9 minutes? Nice! I've been on a binge of those little mean yet really solid Superstars/NXT/Main Event matches recently. Gonna give that a look after SD. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cool beans.

btw, you got a match listing to give from Smackdown? I want to know what is in store, but don't want to read spoilers.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Cool beans.
> 
> btw, you got a match listing to give from Smackdown? I want to know what is in store, but don't want to read spoilers.





Spoiler: match listing



Show/Truth
Rhodes Scholars/Usos
Kaitlyn/Aksana
Kidd/Gabriel/Khali/Hornswoggle vs Primo/Epico/Young/O'Neil
Kofi/Del Rio
Cesaro/Sheamus


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, & Roman Reigns.
> 
> Reigns used to be known as Leakee in FCW.


Haven't seen anything from Ambrose. Rollins could be a big hit in the 'E imo. Reigns is completely unknown to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, lord some of those matches sound like the worst things ever. Match 2 should be fun & the main event should be superb. Thanks Brye. 

Ambrose is uber impressive. Well deserved of the mass praise he receives on this place. Rollins is the man. Still one of my favorites. I have high hopes. Reigns is someone I've known about for a bit. Still unfamiliar myself. He's looked good as the power guy of the group.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Oh, lord some of those matches sound like the worst things ever. Match 2 should be fun & the main event should be superb. Thanks Brye.
> 
> Ambrose is uber impressive. Well deserved of the mass praise he receives on this place. Rollins is the man. Still one of my favorites. I have high hopes. Reigns is someone I've known about for a bit. Still unfamiliar myself. He's looked good as the power guy of the group.





Spoiler: kaitlyn/aksana match



There's literally a five minute headlock. It's the worst thing I've seen


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUCK.

sounds like Aksana vs Maxine from Superstars earlier this year. 5 minute match that feels like 20. Josh Matthews even referred to it as an "iron women" match since it seemed like it would never end.

I rather watch Koslov vs Triple H.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> FUCK.
> 
> sounds like Aksana vs Maxine from Superstars earlier this year. 5 minute match that feels like 20. Josh Matthews even referred to it as an "iron women" match since it seemed like it would never end.
> 
> I rather watch Koslov vs Triple H.


:lmao

Trips/Kozlov is like 15 minutes and feels like about 40 though. :side:

How was Kofi/Cesaro from Raw this week? Heard good things from a friend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Above average/solid. Thanks to the interesting domination by Cesaro. I have it at **1/2. Kofi didn't really get to do much of his annoying work. Only a bit of offense. Cesaro made me care. Much like the matches on Main Event last week & the 4 way.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Above average/solid. Thanks to the interesting domination by Cesaro. I have it at **1/2. Kofi didn't really get to do much of his annoying work. Only a bit of offense. Cesaro made me care. Much like the matches on Main Event last week & the 4 way.


That sounds decent enough. I'll give it a look. Kofi needs a few new moves or something.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Going back a few pages, I expect a very good performance from Cena in the ladder match. Cena will add some psychology to the match so that Ziggler doesn't kill him damn self.

Speaking of Ziggler, I'm just finding it hard to mark for the guy like I used to. He's f'n cluelless in the ring. He's just overdoing the whole show off thing to the point it no longer makes sense what he does. The other night on RAW, he did 10 freaking elbow drops. Overkill much?

Don't get me wrong, I still mark for the guy but his ring work lately has been putting me off. He needs to tone it down. Oh and his overselling makes for an unbelievable match. Not because he oversells but because he'd oversell a simple punch and you hit him a top rope suplex and it has no effect on him. Reminds of Shawn Michaels mid to late 90s work. He definitely needs to tone things down.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't think there is hope for the guy. A lot of his offense is far too phony. The weak leaping clothesline, that unusual lou thesz press/bronco buster in the corner, etc. All he has is the SOS & Trouble in Paradise. Besides, he has no redeeming qualities to allow him dictate the pace of a match. Standard FIP type comeback string of moves and that's it. Far too many flaws. It's why I'm not a fan like I once was.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I don't think there is hope for the guy. A lot of his offense is far too phony. The weak leaping clothesline, that unusual lou thesz press/bronco buster in the corner, etc. All he has is the SOS & Trouble in Paradise. Besides, he has no redeeming qualities to allow him dictate the pace of a match. Standard FIP type comeback string of moves and that's it. Far too many flaws. It's why I'm not a fan like I once was.


Yeah, it's true. He can give us all the three star matches he likes but I just can't see him ever being in a classic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I won't change my opinion till I see a Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston match that isn't the same exact match 100x over.

idk how many made it on TV, but they've legit worked vs each other over 100 times counting house shows.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That doesn't shock me at all. It also wouldn't shock me if we've seen Del Rio vs Santino or Ryder in 100x matches that go under 4 minutes each. Swear to god it's almost every Raw.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit where did all the Kingston fans go? Could sworn when I first signed up people were bitchign about how WWE never continued his push. I never used to like Kingston but I like him now. He's fun and brings a lot of energy. Plus, his matches are always good. Not great but a Kingston match can never bore me.

The problem with Kofi is, he's too cartoony. He needs a mean side, you know? They had him to this big brawl with The Miz some time ago and nothing ever became of it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

As good as Ziggler is, he can't touch HBK, in the 90s or 2000s. If the ladder match is going to be good at all, it's going to be because Ziggler bumps his ass off.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I haven't seen it in a good while but I remember Kofi/Orton match at TLC 2009 being good and not worked like his other standard matched we get every week these days. The finish was tight too. 

Speaking of Orton & December PPVs, his match with Batista at Armageddon 08 was solid.

EDIT -


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> That doesn't shock me at all. It also wouldn't shock me if we've seen Del Rio vs Santino or Ryder in 100x matches that go under 4 minutes each. Swear to god it's almost every Raw.


Garbage. I was ranting back in April for crying out loud. It's December and I'm stuck saying the same crap.



sharkboy22 said:


> Holy shit where did all the Kingston fans go? Could sworn when I first signed up people were bitchign about how WWE never continued his push. I never used to like Kingston but I like him now. He's fun and brings a lot of energy. Plus, his matches are always good. Not great but a Kingston match can never bore me.
> 
> The problem with Kofi is, he's too cartoony. He needs a mean side, you know? They had him to this big brawl with The Miz some time ago and nothing ever became of it.


I liked his push at the time. The beatdown on Orton in MSG remains awesome. However I've re-watched some matches from him back then and he's still pretty bad. Lost interest in the guy following that program in 2010. I get very bored watching his matches nowadays.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> As good as Ziggler is, he can't touch HBK, in the 90s or 2000s. If the ladder match is going to be good at all, it's going to be because Ziggler bumps his ass off.


Don't think anyone was comparing. Poster only said he reminds him of Shawn with the over-the-top bumping.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Garbage. I was ranting back in April for crying out loud. It's December and I'm stuck saying the same crap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know. But I don't think he is as good at bumping. 

But I could see some similarities: Ahleticism, body-type, "show stealer" nickname, and Dolph's attempt to bump. So, point taken.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I haven't watched Orton/Batista in ages but I don't remember liking it much. I'll probably give it another shot though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I know. But I don't think he is as good at bumping.
> 
> But I could see some similarities: Ahleticism, body-type, "show stealer" nickname, and Dolph's attempt to bump. So, point taken.


I love his bumping. It's outlandish and awesome.

Dolph or Shawn. I'm a fan either way.



Clark Griswold said:


> I haven't watched Orton/Batista in ages but I don't remember liking it much. I'll probably give it another shot though.


I remember thinking it was solid. Don't own the PPV to be sure. I was mad about the Batista win. The next night on RAW Orton punted Batista and he was out till the RAW following WrestleMania. So it all worked out.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

This might go against the grain as far as standards go in here but I love to watch an entertaining spotfest. Whether it's a TLC match, a match with Shawn or Dolph bumping around the ring, Kurt Angle bringing the intensity, or cruiserweights outdoing each other going in move for move. Every match doesn't have to be wrapped in psychology or tell a massive, layered, story for it to be super fun and dare I say great. I love my storytelling matches as you can tell from my past reviews but I can love TLC II as much as Regal/Benoit in Japan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> I haven't seen it in a good while but I remember Kofi/Orton match at TLC 2009 being good and not worked like his other standard matched we get every week these days. The finish was tight too.
> 
> Speaking of Orton & December PPVs, his match with Batista at Armageddon 08 was solid.


I admit that despite being a huge Orton mark, I didn't like that match very much at all. Just found it a bit boring and slow. It sucks that Batista & Orton never put on the classic they should be capable of in a singles match. My favorite match of theirs is the #1 Contender match from 10 January 2005 episode of Raw.

And to Hailsabin, I'm unfortunate to say that the SD episode with that goofy JBL promo is in mpeg so I have to convert it before I can cut out the wanted part in Sony Vegas and upload it. Hopefully I can get it done for tomorrow.

Since Orton & December PPVs were brought up, I'm gonna rate all his December PPV matches just for the hell of it.

vs RVD (ARM 03) - ***1/2
vs Taker (ARM 05) - ****1/2
vs Jericho (ARM 07) - ***1/4
vs Batista (ARM 08) - **3/4
vs Kingston (TLC 09) - (Need to watch it first)
vs The Miz (TLC 10) - **1/4
vs Barrett (TLC 11) - **1/2


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> I admit that despite being a huge Orton mark, I didn't like that match very much at all. Just found it a bit boring and slow. It sucks that Batista & Orton never put on the classic they should be capable of in a singles match. My favorite match of theirs is the #1 Contender match from 10 January 2005 episode of Raw.


Admittedly the match is not great but I think it can be nice to look at even some of the lesser PPV matches that are not talked about as much. Your rating for it is about right too. It did seem like they were taking their time out there, probably trying to work the crowd up throughout the match. The finish is pretty cool.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> This might go against the grain as far as standards go in here but I love to watch an entertaining spotfest. Whether it's a TLC match, a match with Shawn or Dolph bumping around the ring, Kurt Angle bringing the intensity, or cruiserweights outdoing each other going in move for move. Every match doesn't have to be wrapped in psychology or tell a massive, layered, story for it to be super fun and dare I say great. I love my storytelling matches as you can tell from my past reviews but I can love TLC II as much as Regal/Benoit in Japan.


As do I. Especially if that's exactly what the match is meant for.

(Y) @ posting the Orton/Batista match. I might have the chance to view it tonight. Got other things on my plate, but I'll get around to it this week. 



Choke2Death said:


> I admit that despite being a huge Orton mark, I didn't like that match very much at all. Just found it a bit boring and slow. It sucks that Batista & Orton never put on the classic they should be capable of in a singles match. My favorite match of theirs is the #1 Contender match from 10 January 2005 episode of Raw.
> 
> And to Hailsabin, I'm unfortunate to say that the SD episode with that goofy JBL promo is in mpeg so I have to convert it before I can cut out the wanted part in Sony Vegas and upload it. Hopefully I can get it done for tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Boourns. Don't go through any trouble if it causes you some. I'll appreciate the effort altogether.

I guess I'm the only gut who likes the Tables match vs Miz? *** in my book.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh, any Orton/Batista match is enough to put me to sleep, especially their "epic" 2009 series. Terrible stuff, although I remember the ARM match being really 50/50.

I love me a good ol fashioned mindless match every now and then. That's why I'm looking forward to popping in my RVD DVD and my ECW Unreleased VOL 1. DVD. It's either mindless spot after mindless spot, or mindless violence, and from time to time I love that shit. An example of a mindless match that I love is Sabu vs Too Cold Scorpio from Cyberslam 96. Such a DUMB but fun match. The Armageddon 2002 3SOH would fall into this category as well for me


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Clique said:


> This might go against the grain as far as standards go in here but I love to watch an entertaining spotfest. Whether it's a TLC match, a match with Shawn or Dolph bumping around the ring, Kurt Angle bringing the intensity, or cruiserweights outdoing each other going in move for move. Every match doesn't have to be wrapped in psychology or tell a massive, layered, story for it to be super fun and dare I say great. I love my storytelling matches as you can tell from my past reviews but I can love TLC II as much as Regal/Benoit in Japan.



Same here. One of my favorite spotfests is RVD/Hardy from Invasion 2001.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RVD vs Jeff Hardy matches = :mark:

Love 'em.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Admittedly the match is not great but I think it can be nice to look at even some of the lesser PPV matches that are not talked about as much. Your rating for it is about right too. It did seem like they were taking their time out there, probably trying to work the crowd up throughout the match. The finish is pretty cool.


It is a decent match for what it is, I'm just disappointed because I expected something better from two superstars of their caliber. Plus Batista's work with other big names like Cena, Taker and HHH were all a success, so it sucks he never had a match as good as them with Orton.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Boourns. Don't go through any trouble if it causes you some. I'll appreciate the effort altogether.
> 
> I guess I'm the only gut who likes the Tables match vs Miz? *** in my book.


Nah, no worries. I can get it done with ease. Just gonna take a couple of hours, is all. Nothing I can't do without watching the remaining 2005 shows in the forefront. But what I did instead is upload the Pick Your Poison match between Benoit/HHH. Just hoping that it wont get flagged. I've hidden the logo, so I'd assume it can be safe for a while at least.

And the tables match with Miz is not horrible, it's just... there. Don't really feel like watching it after the first time. It feels redundant although the original finish before the restart was kind of clever. Heelish Victory 101.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> It is a decent match for what it is, I'm just disappointed because I expected something better from two superstars of their caliber. Plus Batista's work with other big names like Cena, Taker and HHH were all a success, so it sucks he never had a match as good as them with Orton.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alright awesome then. I'll playing the waiting game till you get it uploaded. Been YEARS since I viewed that Benoit/Game match. Another one I should make time for along with Orton/Batista.

I thought it was exactly what they set out to do. A good bout that kept Miz's momentum rolling while coming off as a weasel heel. I liked their match on Smackdown live the following Tuesday & at Rumble too. I'm not one who thinks Miz is terrible in the ring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh, I'm struggling to get through this first match in black and white between two wrestlers I've never heard of in my entire life on the WCCW DVD. We get a :flair3 match that I'm pretty sure I've seen and thought was pretty good, so we'll see where that takes us tonight.

Hoping to finish this DVD and crank another "five second review" for the forum. FUCK, I just realized that I'm doing a TON of reviews and projects for this forum, taking over my life... I really should go get my head checked out. NAH :flair


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember liking the old school match more than a few of the 80's matches, haha.

This site takes up everyone's time. We're always on it at least a bit daily. Got to chat about THAT WRESTLING :hayley3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We've gotten a TON of discussion going on lately, it's fucking awesome.

The older match is so fucking unnecessary though. We get NO Gino Hernandez on the DVD, but they dedicate nearly a half an hour of match time to two guys that aren't mentioned once on the documentary? That in my opinion is the definition if absurd.

Can't wait to get to DAT :flair3 match that I read positive things about.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember that black and white 60s match being awesome and one of the top 3 at worst matches on the DVD. The selection for that DVD wasn't great, though. I don't even dig Flair/Kerry in a cage too much.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ricky Starr is INCREDIBLY energetic for a guy working that long ago. The guy was spinning around the ring like a motherfucker, crazy shit. UBER technical match too, just not my style whatsoever so that kind of makes it incredibly hard to rate. Watching Fritz Von Erich vs King Kong Bundy now, what the fuck is this shit ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT HAPPENS ON A FOOTBALL FIELD. Best. Pinfall. Ever.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Fuck guys. Can't find another Hardy/Umaga match. Couldn't find the episode of RAW on XWT and I can't find the match on Youtube/Dailymotion. Its from RAW March 5th 07 non title before GAB. Any help I'd be very grateful for.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched the Flair-Von Erich cage match from Christmas 1982.

Great, GREAT match. The only problem I really had with it was the fact that the match continued after the Michael Hayes attempted screwjob. That should have been the finish ; Hayes screws Kerry out of the title, and leaves to tremendous heat, instead the match goes on for a few more minutes and we get a pretty nonsensical ending. Von Erich vs Bundy was pretty fun, mainly to see Fritz being such a ballin old man. 6 Man Tag coming up.

EDIT : Forgot to throw in my STARZ for the cage match. **** 3/4*.

GOATS GONNA GOAT :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair vs Kerry matches fell flat for me. Including the one that is added on Flair's Definitive Collection. Something about those matches never sucked me in.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK.

I forget alot of his definitive collection stuff. WE. NEED. MORE. FLAIR. DVDS. Seriously, Bret's getting an unreleased collector's series DVD, give us a Flair one with a ton of shit on it and we'll have a set with like TWENTY **** matches, just for the lolz.

Opinions on the Von Erich's in general ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like them. Grew up as a fan of Kerry. When I've gotten into the rest of the family I see their appeal. David could have had a future if he hadn't died during the Japan tour. Believe Kerry got what he was meant to receive. Unless I'm losing track of my timeline. Kevin was awesome. The high flyer of the group. Forgot I liked his match from the WCCW set quite a bit. Probably say it was my favorite off of memory.

No lie that Michael wasn't into the biz like his family was. If only Chris was able to go. He could have easily taken his spot while Michael continued on with his life in other endeavors. The stories about how things went down. Truly tragic.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

mk92071 said:


> Fuck guys. Can't find another Hardy/Umaga match. Couldn't find the episode of RAW on XWT and I can't find the match on Youtube/Dailymotion. Its from RAW March 5th 07 non title before GAB. Any help I'd be very grateful for.


It's in this video - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1dp5l_wwe-raw-03-05-07-part-2_sport#.UMwzKG_m5i4

Orton/Michaels had a match on that show I forgot about too!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The cage is really the only Flair/Kerry I can remember not digging too much. The match they had in Hawaii in the December of 85 could be the best non-Steamboat or Windham singles match Flair ever had.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How about the David Von Erich Memorial match where Kerry finally wins?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> How about the David Von Erich Memorial match where Kerry finally wins?


I don't remember that one. It was in 84, right? I think I only watched that once in like 2008.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

5/6/84. Yep.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Agreed with whatshisname about the Flair/Von Eric cage match. Definitely should have ended after Hayes threw the door in Von Eric's face. Would have made it so much better.

Match listing for the WCCW set is incredibly disappointing, but I have a 15 disc set from DVDVR so I don't care .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

As if you'll ever get around to watching that.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

I've probably watched about 15 Flair/Kerry matches over the last few years and I'm not remembering any that I wouldn't call "pretty good" at least. And after watching a metric fuckton of 80s World Class a couple years ago it's clear that Kerry BROUGHT it every single time. They're still matches worked within the Flair Formula, but Kerry was always really fucking good on his end. Shit, it's pretty clear that the bad rap the Von Erichs get in general ranges from wildly overblown to flat out wrong.

Best Flair/Kerry match is the October '85 one from Hawaii. The Kerry title win is obviously a spectacular moment, but there's probably 8 or 9 of their mathches together that are better bell-to-bell. The one not long after it where it's Kerry defending the belt is totally slept on and pretty great.

Actually, the one that made the All Japan 80s set is the only match of theirs that I actively didn't like. 

I'm not certain I'd be the person to make it, but there's definitely a case that Kerry is one of Flair's three best opponents.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> As if you'll ever get around to watching that.


Hey! I've almost finished the first disc .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> The cage is really the only Flair/Kerry I can remember not digging too much. The match they had in Hawaii in the *December* of 85 could be the best non-Steamboat or Windham singles match Flair ever had.





WANDERLEI SILVA CHRISTMAS ACCENT said:


> Best Flair/Kerry match is the *October* '85 one from Hawaii. The Kerry title win is obviously a spectacular moment, but there's probably 8 or 9 of their mathches together that are better bell-to-bell. The one not long after it where it's Kerry defending the belt is totally slept on and pretty great.


Yeah, that one. Thought it was 12/10/85 instead of 10/12/85. How many non-Steamboat Flair singles are better? BOTB 86 v Windham and probably v Funk 11/89 which I forgot, maybe the better 87 Windham match (whichever that is), maybe BOTB 85 v Wahoo, maybe the Morton cage at GAB 86 ......can't think of anything else. Most of those are 'maybes' and the only 'definite' for me would be the 86 Windham match. Nobody really talks about Flair/Kerry, either. Hell nobody really talks about any of the Flair/Kerry matches. for a guy with so much Greatest of All Time talk Flair has a LOT of great matches that nobody really talks about.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Wrote about Flair/Kerry Hawaii a year and a half ago. Looking back I'd probably take it over Windham/Murdoch but I'd still probably take Windham/Flair BOTB and 1/20/87, a couple of Flair/Steamboat matches and Lawler/Dundee 12/30/85. Its still incredible though.



> *Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Hawaii, (10/12/1985)*
> 
> Seen this pimped as a MOTDC and whilst I totally loved this match and would have it as maybe a top 3 personal favourite match of Flair's, I just can't really think of this match as being alongside Flair vs Steamboat, Lawler vs Dundee, Flair vs Windham or Murdoch vs Windham. That's not to discredit this match at all because that is some stiff competition from the US alone when it comes to MOTDCs, and this match really is sensational and definitely the best Flair vs Von Erich match.
> 
> ...


Steamboat and Windham jump out immediately as Flairs' two best opponents. Funk could be considered better, Wahoo/Flair is a series I adore especially the 2/3 falls BOTB '85 match. After that though Kerry seems like a really good shout and probably ahead of Wahoo despite my love for the violence you got in that series. I can't recall exactly how many matches Flair and Morton had with each other, so I'd take Kerry over Ricky in that regard. Luger/Flair is a really geat matchup as well but again I'd probably take Kerry over Luger in terms of the consistency in Flair/Kerry.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two matches revealed for the Best of Nitro Vol. 2:

*WCW United States Championship Match*
Sting vs. Ric Flair
_September 4, 1995_

*WCW World Tag Team Championship Match*
Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. Goldberg & Bret Hart
_December 13, 1999_


Never seen either one, but Flair/Sting is always welcome as long it's not from the last Nitro.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That tag match could be all types of fun in a "shit is going to go down, so we'll skip the match it's self" type of way :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That Flair/Sting match is utter shite. Gave it * when I watched it for the WCW poll. Seems like the set it already off to a bad start lol.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, that one. Thought it was 12/10/85 instead of 10/12/85. How many non-Steamboat Flair singles are better? BOTB 86 v Windham and probably v Funk 11/89 which I forgot, maybe the better 87 Windham match (whichever that is), maybe BOTB 85 v Wahoo, maybe the Morton cage at GAB 86 ......can't think of anything else. Most of those are 'maybes' and the only 'definite' for me would be the 86 Windham match. Nobody really talks about Flair/Kerry, either. Hell nobody really talks about any of the Flair/Kerry matches. for a guy with so much Greatest of All Time talk Flair has a LOT of great matches that nobody really talks about.


I haven't seen the Flair/Kerry Hawaii match in about 3 years, but I wouldn't be surprised if I liked it more than the Flair/Steamboat matches on a re-watch. But that then opens the whole "fresher versus better" can of worms and I don't have the motivation to get into that again. 

Honestly, I *might* take the Flair/Morton cage match as the best match of Flair's career at this point. I think Morton is arguably his best opponent ever as well. 

The 'I Quit' match against Funk blew me away when I re-watched it last year. 

Been ages since I watched any of the Windham matches, but I suspect I'd like at least two of them more than the Kerry match...but I'm not 100% sold on that.

I loved the shit out of Flair/Roberts, but I need to see that again. It's been almost 5 years at this point, I think.

So, basically:

v Windham x2
v Morton
v Funk

Those are really the only Flair matches I feel confident about saying are better than the Kerry match. The Roberts match is a maybe, and I guess the Steamboat matches are as well, because they're Flair/Steamboat and I wouldn't be surprised if I loved them again whenever I next re-watch them. I've been kind of iffy on Flair for a minute now, though. Who knows.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Had a go at reviewing my first match and was just wondering if I post it in here would people be able to give me their thoughts? The match I reviewed is Cena Vs Lesnar and I understand that this match does get brought up in here a awful lot but I chose it as I've seen it a few times and it's pretty easy to find.

*John Cena vs Brock Lesnar – Extreme Rules 
*
*“I'm not a superstar, I'm an ass kicker” - Brock Lesnar
*​This match is widely recognized as one of the best matches of 2012 and has received the full 5 stars from a number of people and I for one believe that it lives up to all the hype and deserves to be viewed as a truly great match. 

I absolutely love the brutality of Brock's MMA style offence in this match and combined with some great selling of the arm injury from Cena makes this match look like a war. The elbows the the skull of Cena at the start of the match really set the the tone for the entire match with Brock pretty much dominating the whole match and not allowing Cena to mount any offence without getting slammed to the ground. Cena is bleeding from the skull for the duration of the match and the medical team even have to step in and stop the match to attempt to stop the bleeding, while some people may say that this slows the match down and ruins the flow I actually think that it helps sell how much Lesnar is dominating Cena as it shows that someone had to step in to stop Cena getting seriously hurt. All the while Cena is receiving medical treatment Brock is gloating in the opposite corner by pointing to the elbow that has just cut open Cena's head, smearing the blood across his chest and even licking Cena's blood. Lesnar continues to decimate Cena throughout the match by kneeing Cena in the ribs and hanging him from the turnbuckle with a padlock and landing punches on a defenceless Cena and at one point hits a F5 but manages to catch the referee on the way down meaning that he is unable to count the three count, after another ref enters the ring and Cena kicks out at 2 Brock lays the ref out. Personally I think the amount of ref bumps hurt the match as they didn't really serve a purpose. Lesnar puts the steel steps in the middle of the ring and tries use them to throw himself into a clothesline to Cena who is on the ring apron, Lesnar accidentally throws himself over the top rope with his momentum and his knee sickeningly bounces off the floor which Brock somehow manages to walk off with a devilish smile on his face like the freak of nature that he is. Lesnar attempts try this for a second time but Cena hits him with the padlock and chain for his first real bit of offence in the match, Cena follows it up with a Attitude Adjustment onto the steel steps and covers Lesnar for the 3 count.

A lot of people criticise the ending of the match and the decision to let Cena win, I agree that Lesnar should of won in my opinion but the complete domination that Lesnar showed in the match still put him over as a monster. 

****3/4


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Clique said:


> It's in this video - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1dp5l_wwe-raw-03-05-07-part-2_sport#.UMwzKG_m5i4
> 
> Orton/Michaels had a match on that show I forgot about too!


Thanks a ton man! 

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - IV - 3/5/07 - Non Title Match - Monday Night Raw
Jeff Hardy bails out the ring early to avoid Umaga and hits a couple dropkicks before hitting a suicide dive. They're up fast and Umaga runs into the steps. Running clothesling by Hardy and a low drop kick. Umaga nails a clothesline, and Hardy loses all of his momentum. Hardy is laying on the mat dead as Umaga hits some spring board butt drops. Hardy starts to fight back with punches and hits a jawbreaker. Hardy off the ropes, he eats a punch and a clothesline. Umaga puts Hardy up in the tree of woe. Umaga running headbutt to Hardy's chest, and he is pummelling Hardy in the corner. Umaga hits a stink face and signals for the spike! He hits it, and its all over. 

Damn, I thought this was going to be really good with Hardy starting off fast and using his speed to get the advantage on Umaga. The problem is that the second Umaga hit a clothesline early on, it was ALL Umaga. **1/4

Now I get to watch their GAB match!!! :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is the WCW Best of Clash if Champions worth a watch?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> Is the WCW Best of Clash if Champions worth a watch?


From that set watch these matches first:


NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Sting
Clash of the Champions – 27th March, 1988

NWA World Tag Team Championship Match
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Lex Luger & Barry Windham
Clash of the Champions – 27th March, 1988

“I Quit” Match for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk
Clash of the Champions IX – 15th November, 1989


NWA United States Championship Match
‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger
Clash of the Champions XII – 5th September, 1990


WCW United States Championship Match
Sting vs. ‘Ravishing’ Rick Rude
Clash of the Champions XVII – 19th November, 1991


Elimination Tag Team Match
Sting & ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. ‘Ravishing’ Rick Rude & Vader
Clash of the Champions XXVI – 27th January, 1994


Championship Unification Match
Sting vs. ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair
Clash of the Champions XXVII – 23rd June, 1994

WCW United States Championship Match
“Stunning” Steve Austin vs. Ricky ‘The Dragon’ Steamboat
Clash of the Champions XXVIII – 24th August, 1994

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Ultimo Dragon vs. Dean Malenko
Clash of the Champions XXXIV – 21st January, 1997

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero
Clash of the Champions XXXV – 21st August, 1997


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga (c) - V - 7/22/07 - Intercontinental Championship - Great American Bash 2007
Hardy starts off laying some punches on Umaga, but Umaga takes Hardy off of his feet with a punch. Umaga punches Hardy around and they go to the floor. Umaga slams Jeff on the apron and sends him back inside. Jeff gets a flurry of strikes and a jawbreaker in, but Umaga catches him off the ropes with a Samoan drop. Umaga does a DAMN GOOD Samoan drop. Umaga hits a few bunches and a headbutt, before dropping a leg on Hardy. Hardy catches Umaga with a kick to the stomach, but Umaga stops him in his tracks with a clothesline. Umaga hit a couple hard Irish whips to Hardy into the corners attacking his back. Umaga throws more strikes at Hardy and applies the nerve hold. Hardy starts to elbow out of the move, but Umaga sends him crashing back down to the mat keeping the nerve hold on Hardy. Jeff tries to elbow out again, but Umaga smashes him down reappling the hold. Third try to escape, but Umaga tosses him onto his back. Reapplying the hold. Hardy fights out of the nerve hold and goes for a BODY SLAM. Umaga is to heavy and falls into a cross body for a two. Umaga hits a springboard butt drop onto Jeff's sternum and a second one. He signals for a third but Hardy gets his knees up. Hardy is on the top rope and goes for a cross body. Umaga catches him and hits a Black Hole Slam esque move. Hardy kicks out! Umaga goes up top for a head butt, but Hardy moves out of the way! Hardy gets a few punches and elbows in and he hits a spinning kick! Hardy with a DDT! Umaga charges at Hardy but goes over the top rope. Dropkick to Umaga followed by a suicide dive! Back in the ring, Hardy with a sunset flip, but Umaga goes for a butt drop. Hardy moves, and hits a sliding drop kick for 2! Umaga throws Hardy into the corner and pummels him with punches! STINK FACE NO HARDY MOVES. Whisper in the Wind! 2! Umaga throws him in the corner, but misses a stinger splash. Hardy goes up top! Swanton Bomb! Umaga kicks out at 2! Jeff signals for the twist of fate, but Umaga hits a superkick! Stink face! Samoan spike! Thats the match!

Wow. That match was really good, especially the last 4 minutes. Umaga's control angles wasn't half bad, and I really enjoyed the nerve hold spots. I felt those were a good throwback to their previous matches, and it was great that it took Hardy 4 tries to escape the hold. The match really picked up in the end, and had some really great nearfalls down the stretch. By far the best match in the series at this point. ***1/2

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga (c) - VI - 9/3/07 - Intercontinental Championship - Monday Night Raw
Hardy ducks a punch and hits a quick flurry followed by some kicks, but Umaga nails a series of punches to take the advantage. Umaga chokes Hardy in the ropes, but Jeff fights back. He bounches off the ropes, but Umaga gives him a back elbow. A few stomps to Jeff and a headbutt. Umaga tosses Hardy across the ring a couple of times like a ragdoll smashing him into the turnbuckles. Umaga hits a knife edged chop and some punches in the corner. He goes for a running elbow, but Hardy moves. Hardy hits a few punches but is tossed off. Hardy onto the apron, but he is superkicked to the floor. Commercial break. Umaga stomps Hardy and applies a nerve hold.
Hardy fights with punches, but Umaga throws him to his back and reapplies it. Hardy fights out and hits a kick to the gut. Jeff bounces off the ropes, but is caught with a beautiful Samoan drop. Umaga goes for the diving head butt, but Hardy moves out of the way. Double count. Both to their feet bu sever, and Hardy hits some punches and forearms. Hardy with a spin kick. Goes for a sunset flip, but Umaga butt drops. Hardy rolled out of the way and hits a sliding drop kick for 2. Twist of fate attempt, but he is shoved into the corner. WHISHPER IN THE WIND! Hardy goes up top, and dives with a crossbody. Umaga catches him with a black hole slam type move. Umaga goes to the top rope. Hardy crotches him and Umaga flops to the mat. Hardy covers him, and Umaga throws him off right as he got the 3! New IC Champ!

This match was the GAB match but shortened about 3-4 minutes and with a different finish. Still really enjoyed this match, and Umaga still looked strong in his loss. Wasn't on the same level as GAB, but it was better than their matches previous. I think it just hits ***.

I hope the series keeps this up. These two matches were entertaining and flew by.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Is the WCW Best of Clash if Champions worth a watch?


I like it. There's a few clunkers on there but for the most part its a good set.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh... I despised that COTC set, mainly because I owned practically every good match on the DVD, but they gave us a billion repeats anyways. Too many short, pointless matches, not enough Vader vs Dustin Rhodes ..... Still not as bad as ANOTHER WCW based set they put out this year but bad.

Watching Straight Shootin' w/ Jim Cornette and Percy Pringle right now. Fucking HILARIOUS stories being told, with Percy telling a story about how The Undertaker HATES cucumbers, so bad that when people used to rib him and put cucumbers in his hat/gloves/drinks , he would puke his guts up and get PISSED. They're talking all kinds of ribs here, check it out honestly (you can download it off of this site) :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Umaga was one of Jeff's best opponents. Really liked GAB '07 and the steel cage match on Raw.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback on COTC guys (Y)

Just watched Undertaker vs Khali Last Man Standing 8/18/06. Holy shit was it good. I'm going **** on this. Really damn good match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ The Best of Nitro Vol. 2

I have a very strange feeling that come February, I'm going to be completely trashing another WWE-Produced WCW DVD. What ones did they actually get RIGHT? I mean, The Rise and Fall of WCW had a pretty great match listing (FLAIR-STEAMBOAT  ) , but FUCK the documentary was just MEH. Starrcade had some matches that were just "WTF" but overall it's a pretty awesome set. WWE han't really mastered the art of a WCW based release yet IMO , and it seems like it's only getting worse and worse.

EDIT : Khali-Taker is a strange match for me. When it came out, there were reports saying that the match was HEAVILY, HEAVILY Edited. It's up there with Khali's other "Good" matches (Taker,Trips,Cena), but the blatant use of editing technology kind of got me saying ehhh.....


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Don't think I've ever seen that match. The thought of a 4 star Khali match blows my mind.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LMS is Khali's best match by a wide margin. Big fan of it. Don't think there was much editing at all despite what the dirt sheets said. I think only the ending was edited but mainly for different camera angles and shit. Was originally supposed to happen at SS but they changed it to SD so they COULD edit it if need be. Undertaker even made Khali bleed for real with a chair shot that was a little on the stiff side because he had to overcompensate for the fact Khali sucks and couldn't take moves and shots like everyone else lol.

WWE + WCW = WTF. They "won" the war, and now every chance they get they shit all over them lol. Was watching the new episode of SilverVision TV (just a random web show that Steve, a guy that works for them, does every so often), and he was pimping the NWO set as a top 5 set of the year. He acknowledged the fact the documentary is short and not as good as it could be... but used the MATCHES as the main reason to pick the set up :lmao. I made sure to comment on how shit it is .

:mark: New Legends of Wrestling Roundtable online. Downloading it now.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Don't think I've ever seen that match. The thought of a 4 star Khali match blows my mind.


Please bear in mind that I have a bias for these type of matches, so if it's nothing more than a ***1/2 match to you then you know why lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd throw ***1/2 at it. Probably a full * above anything Khali has done .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

FuckChristmas said:


> I'd throw ***1/2 at it. Probably a full * above anything Khali has done .


Yeah, I'd probably go ***3/4. Don't know why I went **** but shit I was impressed. It's within that range. 

But like I said, I love me a damn good fight. Just a good old fashioned brawl and these two brought it. You throw in a couple, meaningful high impact spots and you got me sold. I'm just big on storytelling and to me the match told an amazing story.

But didn't Cena also have a LMS with Khali? Between the two, which is better? I've never seen the Cena one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN IN HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLL STEEEVEEE! 

I'm going to find out where that motherfucker lives and put my 30-06 to his fucking dome. HOW DARE SOMEBODY PROMOTE THAT AWFUL DVD. Top five DVD of the year ?!?!?!?! WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE ? This guy should be held hostage by a bunch of Islamic Fundamentalists for saying such a stupid, STUPID thing. Makes me ashamed to be a human being !

....Anyways... Undertaker's Deadliest Matches... Am I the only one who likes this ? A ton of fun, I'm pretty sure I sat through it like 3 times, which is INSANE for a 3-Disc Set. Some really good matches on there, and the first disc is pretty shitty but insanely FUN FUN FUN. That's the Undertaker I fucking love, taking shitty guys and making fun matches out of them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My review of it from way back when:

*The Undertaker Vs The Great Khali - Last Man Standing - Smackdown August 18th 2006*

Lol, remember when this was supposed to happen at SummerSlam? Then WWE realised that Khali + Live PPV = Disaster :lmao.

Khali had destroyed The Undertaker at Judgment Day, and this was 'Taker's chance at revenge. Khali had been built up as the old Unstoppable Giant/Monster, so it was Undertaker's job to slay the untalented shit.

Undertaker's biggest chance of winning this was to use his quickness to avoid Khali's offence, take the bigger man off his feet, then beat the living fuck out of him. Undertaker is able to do this at the beginning of the match, and when he has Khali down, he locks in the triangle choke! Smart work as usual from the Dead Man.

Unfortunately for The Undertaker though, Davari, Khali's manager, gets involved and distracts The Undertaker long enough to let Khali recover. They end up fighting on the SD stage at the top of the ramp, and 'Taker gets launched off the top of the stage through the suspiciously placed tables... . Khali thinks this one is over, and it almost is, but the resilience of the Dead Man allows him to get back up at 9, but he is still pretty beat up. Khali doesn't look as awful as usual in this match, probably because The Undertaker knows how to take the offence of useless big men; it was all he did for the first 5 years of his career in WWF after all lol.

Liked the spot with Undertaker being tied up in the ropes, and Khali landing a couple of his big chops, which were sold as death back then, and was the move that put Undertaker away at JD. Everyone thinks this one is over, but AGAIN The Undertaker is up at 9! Put not like before when he got up at 9 and was still hurt, no, this time he sat up and was pissed off to fuck and Khali was going to motherfucking pay. Until Khali reverses Undertaker into the steel steps. Unfortunately for Khali, that just pissed Undertaker off even more, and those steel steps end up being the downfall of the Great Khali.

Shot to the head, followed by a couple of chair shots to the back of the head while Khali's head was laid on the steps! Khali is busted open, and it happened the hard way. I remember reading reports back when this happened and how pissed off Khali was with 'Taker for legit smashing his head in with the chair because "the first shot didn't look real enough". That's Undertaker for ya lol.

Anyway, a couple more chair shots to the head, and then a HUGE chokeslam, and Khali stays down for the 10 count. Undertaker finally got his revenge, and gave Khali his BEST match ever. Nothing before, and sure as hell nothing after, has been as good for Khali.

As far as LMS matches go, there are definitely better ones, but its certainly not the worst. Khali actually looked... decent in the match, as his power offence worked perfectly here, and Undertaker sold extremely well for him. A couple of good, brutal spots too, and a satisfying finish . Won't make my list, but it probably would finish in my top 200 (which is a good thing lol).

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best In The North Pole said:


> BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN IN HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLL STEEEVEEE!
> 
> I'm going to find out where that motherfucker lives and put my 30-06 to his fucking dome. HOW DARE SOMEBODY PROMOTE THAT AWFUL DVD. Top five DVD of the year ?!?!?!?! WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE ? This guy should be held hostage by a bunch of Islamic Fundamentalists for saying such a stupid, STUPID thing. Makes me ashamed to be a human being !
> 
> ....Anyways... Undertaker's Deadliest Matches... Am I the only one who likes this ? A ton of fun, I'm pretty sure I sat through it like 3 times, which is INSANE for a 3-Disc Set. Some really good matches on there, and the first disc is pretty shitty but insanely FUN FUN FUN. That's the Undertaker I fucking love, taking shitty guys and making fun matches out of them.


He also had the top 50 finishing moves in his top 5 :side:. And Punk wasn't his #1. COTC was.

Deadliest Matches is a great set. 

Undertaker vs. Ultimate Warrior - Decentish. Nice rare match at least, rather than a repeat.
Undertaker vs. Kamala - Decentish again, and I don't own many Survivor Series events so nice to own the first "coffin" match .
Undertaker vs. Kama - Slow, but I enjoy it.
Undertaker vs. King Mabel - No thanks .
Undertaker vs. Mankind - Fucking AWESOME, and probably the most underrated match in their series.
Undertaker vs. Mankind - Shit and boring. Fuck the boiler room brawl match.
Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Alright, nothing special, like most of their matches.
Undertaker vs. Kane - TV match, so nice to see on a DVD. Plus it has FIRE.
Undertaker vs. Big Show - This the one with the ring breaking? Or the next one? I think they were short matches anyway, fun and nothing more.
Undertaker vs. Big Show - See above.
Undertaker vs. The Dudleys - Honestly, the match is ok. Solid. Just the angle going into it was fucking terrible and the aftermath was stupid .
Undertaker vs. Heidenreich - Fun match, but would have liked to have seen the SS match instead.
Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & “Cowboy” Bob Orton - Incredible match, best casket match of all the times.
Undertaker vs. Randy Orton - Fucking incredible, one of my all time favourite HIAC matches and easily a top 5 for me.
Undertaker vs. The Great Khali - Really good and Khali's best match as already stated.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Orton and Taker had HIAC? Man, I gotta check that one out?

Hey, what do you guys think about their SD match? The match was ok but holy shit that casket magic trick was pretty damn laughable. I laughed my ass off hard with that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/Taker series:

WM - ****1/4
SS - ****1/2
SD (was this before or after SS?) - ***3/4
NM Casket - ****1/2
Arm HIAC - ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Who is this fucking retard and why the fuck does he have a job ? :lol

Seriously, ANYBODY who doesn't put the Punk DVD as the #1 DVD of the year can go die. This year has been BAD for DVDs released in general IMO, and to put anything above the Punk DVD in my view is 100 percent asinine. Yeah, because we REALLY fucking needed to see Koloff-Morton or Mascaras-Foley on a fucking DVD. Terrible, TERRIBLE choice, and I demand a petition to be started for this individual to be booted off planet earth.

Ranking the 3/4 disc sets this year (Haven't seen Raw 1000 or The Attitude Era yet, got them for Christmas, yet to see Unreleased Vol 1 as I'm gonna watch it in a few days I would imagine) :

1. CM Punk : Best in the World
2. Brock Lesnar : Here Comes the Pain (Collector's Edition)
3. The Best of Raw and Smackdown 2011

Those are the only releases that I'd consider "good" ; here are the rest ;

4. Undertaker : The Streak
5. You Think You Know Me ; The Story of Edge
6. Falls Count Anywhere
7. The Epic Journey of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

57457357. The Top 50 Finishing Moves in WWE History
57457358. Clash of the Champions
57457358. Rock vs Cena : Once in a Lifetime
-1675283548302635426282545729263. The DVD that shalt not be named.

The Streak and The Edge DVD fall under the same category to me ; DVDs that are AWESOME for people who don't have alot in their collection, but when you own EVERY DAMN MATCH on a DVD you aren't going to like it very much. The Streak is my LEAST favorite Undertaker DVD by far, but it's still number four in terms of being the best DVD of the year. The top three are actually "good" , the middle DVDs CAN be good under the right circumstances, and the bottom DVDs are some of the worst ever made.

This is coming from the perspective of somebody who buys ever new release BTW. WWE Home Video better straighten their fucking act up soon I swear to god. 2011 had like... SIX DVDS that I would put over number 2 and 3.

Not looking forward to the Attitude Era DVD AT ALL. Saw that WWEDVDNEWS posted a question stating "what is better, CM Punk's DVD, or the Attitude Era DVD ?" and I fucking RAGED. Now, I haven't seen the AE DVD but I sure know that it has a shitty doc and NO ***** 1/2+* matches on it like Punk's DVD does.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Who is this fucking retard and why the fuck does he have a job ? :lol
> 
> Seriously, ANYBODY who doesn't put the Punk DVD as the #1 DVD of the year can go die. This year has been BAD for DVDs released in general IMO, and to put anything above the Punk DVD in my view is 100 percent asinine. Yeah, because we REALLY fucking needed to see Koloff-Morton or Mascaras-Foley on a fucking DVD. Terrible, TERRIBLE choice, and I demand a petition to be started for this individual to be booted off planet earth.
> 
> ...


Well, this thread escalated quickly lol.

BTW, what matches are on the Punk DVD? I only downloaded the doc part.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AWESOME MATCHES. GO BUY IT unk2

Honestly though, awesome. Decided to start my MOTY list today, starting off by watching both the HIAC match and the Punk-Jericho WM match back to back to see once and for all what I consider to be the better match :mark: 

THIS IS GOING TO BE AWESOME.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

And the last of my Hardy/Umaga series review.

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - VII - 11/19/07 - Non-Title Match - Monday Night Raw
Hardy starts off with serveral punches and dodges Umaga's strikes. Umaga hits a headbutt, but Hardy moves for a dive and dropkicks Umaga to the floor. Hardy goes to the floor but eats a chop. Hardy back in the ring with a drop kick to Umaga. He goes for a sunset flip, but he can't get Umaga down. Umaga misses a punch and Hardy hits a forearm before he eats a shoulder block. Hardy hits a couple punches but he eats a back elbow. Umaga with the nerve hold. Jeff tries to fight to his feet, but Umaga wrenches the hold. Hardy tries to elbow out of the hold, but he's thrown onto his back before Umaga reapllies the hold. Hardy dodges a spear in the corner, and 
catches Umaga with a DDT. Jeff on the apron signaling for something, but he gets shoved off to the floor. Commercial break. Back to the action is Umaga with a nerve hold on Hardy. Hardy elbows out and goes for a body slam, but Umaga falls into a crossbody for 2. Umaga with a snapmare back into that nervehold. Hardy tries to escape the hold and he ricochets off the ropes only to be caught with a back body drop. Umaga with a leg drop and a knee drop for 2. Umaga with a couple kicks to the chest, and a SPINNING WHEEL KICK for 2. Another cover but still 2. Umaga with a couple punches, and Hardy is on the apron. Jawbreaker on the ropes. Hardy up top. Cross body reversal into the black hold slam! THAT WAS NASTY! 2! Jeff is a ragdoll against Umaga. Umaga hits a springboard butt drop and reapplies the nerve hold. Hardy fights out and eats a big boot to the skull. Umaga goes up top but he misses the flying headbutt. Hardy gets to his feet but he gets socked in the face. Hes pummeled in the corner, and Umaga goes for a stink face. No one home. Jeff connects with a whisper in the wind for 2! Jeff with a forearm and goes for the twist of fate. Shoved off, but he hits a spin kick. Umaga misses a stinger splash and Hardy goes for the Swanton. Umaga moves and connects with a Samoan drop. Samoan Spike attempts, but Hardy
reverses! Twist of Fate! Umaga goes to the floor and eats a dropkick! Suicide dive! Hardy back in the ring. Snitsky runs in for the DQ finish.

This was a great match. I'm going to take the time and tell you that this series is good enough to make a nerve hold an interesting move. They've put it over as one of Hardy's few weaknesses. This match benefitted greatly from seeing all their other bouts, because you could see how it was just like their previous matches but they used more counters because they know each other so well. I would've been happier if Hardy one with the twist of fate, but the finish didn't ruin it for me. ***1/4

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - VIII - 1/7/08 - Non Title Steel Cage Match - Monday Night Raw
So Jeff is the IC Champ here, but he's facing Orton at Royal Rumble for the WWE Title. My expectations for this are high. Orton is coming out before the match to scout his challenger at Royal Rumble. Umaga throws Hardy to the mat and hits him with an elbow. Umaga smashes Hardy to the mat with a shoulder block. U,aga goes for a back body drop, but Hardy goes for a sunset flip. Umaga goes for a butt drop but misses, and Hardy hits the sliding drop kick. Hardy hits a jawbreaker but soon eats a high kick to the face. Hardy is in the corner and Umaga went for a stinger splash. Hardy moves and Umaga smashes into the cage. Hardy hits a dropkick for 2. Hardy runs at Umaga, but he gets elevated into the cage. NO! Hardy is on the ropes climbing out. Umaga catches a foot and slams him back into the ring. Commercial break. We come back to find Hardy in a nerve hold, and we missed the black hole slam spot during the break. Hardy starts to get to his feet but Umaga throws him into the ropes. Umaga is caught with a kick to the head, but when he tries to get capitalize he takes a nasty back body drop into the cage. Jeff is getting thrown into the cage again and again by Umaga. Umaga sandwiches Hardy with a running stinger splash. Hardy gets a foot on the ropes. Orton is rampaging at rinside, and he throws 3 charis into the
ring. Umaga smashes Jeff on the bakc with the steel chair. Hardy kicks out, and Umaga is climbing to the top of the cage. He gets crotched and Hardy sets up a chair. Hardy hits an assisted Poetry in Motion to his crotched opponent! Jeff goes for a twist of fate, but Umaga shoves him away and clocks him with a right hand. Hardy is down in the corner and eats some right hands. Umaga goes for the stink face, but Hardy moves. Hardy with a couple fore arms and a spin kick. Umaga in the corner and Hardy throws a chair at his head. Hardy sets up a steel chair and DDTs Umaga onto it! Only 2! Hardy is leaving by the cage door, but Orton slams it shut on his head! Umaga covers Hardy for 2. Umaga is looking for the spike but Hardy reverses into a Twist of Fate! Hardy is climbing to the top of the cage, but Orton is waiting for him. Hardy moonsaults off the cage onto a standing Umaga! That scores the 3!

Good match. Not as many call backs to previous matches though. I liked the finish because Orton slamming Hardy's head into the door caused him to have to find a different way out. Then Orton waiting for him lead to the big finish. They threw in some good spots, but it isn't their best match. I enjoyed the use of the cage, also. ***

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - IX - 5/12/08 - Monday Night Raw
This is Hardy's return match. He was cutting a promo about how he wants to become intercontinental championship, but his mike gets cut and Regal comes out. He makes as impromptu match against Umaga. Before Umaga gets into the ring he hits a drop kick followed by a suicide dive. On the floor, Umaga catches him with a punch and tosses him into the security barricade. They get in the ring and the bell rings. Hardy gets whipped into the corner and eats a right hang. Umaga is going up top for the headbutt and he connects! He follows up with a couple punches to Hardy, before lining up for a Stink Face. Umaga misses when Jeff slides out of the way and hits a whisper in the wind for a quick 3. Hardy bails right away and Umaga is pissed.

This barely qualifies as a match since it was less than 3 minutes, but it was a good way to return Jeff and start the mini feud leading up to their ONS match. Not painful to watch or anything but nothing good. *

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - X - 5/19/08 - Monday Night Raw
Rematch from the previous episode. Umaga starts off with a series of punches. Hardy foes for a sunset flip, but Umaga reverses into the butt drop. Hardy dodged it and hit a sliding drop kick for a near fall. Hardy goes for a running move, but it is countered into a Samoan drop. Umaga applies the nerve hold. Hardy escapes the hold with a series of punches, but he eats a right hand that takes him down. Umaga puts Hardy up in the tree of woe and hits the running headbutt to the chest. Umaga goes up top for a diving headbutt, but Hardy moves. Hardy looks like he's going to go for Whisper in the Wind, but Umaga catches him by the hair. Hardy goes for a twist of
fate but is shoved away. Hardy goes for a whisper in the wind but Umaga sidesteps and avoids in. Hardy is down in the corner, and Umaga is going for the stink face. Hardy dodges it, and pummels Umaga in the corner. Dropkick to Umaga and a spin kick sending Umaga to the floor. Somersault plancha to the floor! Umaga throws Hardy into the steps but he moves out of the way of a running move sending Umaga into the steel. Hardy goes for a crossbody off the barricade, but he is caught. Umaga hits a black hole slam on the floor! The bell rings and we have a double count out.

Its hard to say I didn't mark out when Umaga prevented the whisper in the wind with the hair pull and the black hole slam on the floor, but the finish definitely took away from the match. Still a good TV match, and it makes sense leading into their ONS match. **3/4

Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - XI - 6/1/08 - Falls Count Anywhere - One Night Stand 2008
I was here to see this match live, and I've probably only seen it once since then. I think seeing the 10 previous matches will add a lot to the match. The match starts with Hardy running into a back elbow. Umaga whips Hardy into the corner hard and Jeff collapses. Umaga tosses him into the opposite corner, and he reverses into a Whisper in the Wind for 2! Hardy goes up top for a crossbody, but Umaga catches him with a black hole slam for 2! Umaga runs at Hardy and gets sent to the floor. Hardy leaps over the top with a suicide dive for a 2 on the floor! Umaga tosses Jeff into the barricade, and he throws him onto the unprotected concrete. Umaga throws a few chairs onto him and tosses him into a wall. Umaga hits a head butt to Hardy, but he gets a traffic thing thrown to his head. Umaga immediately comes back with a big boot. Umaga goes for a stink face against a part of the set, but Hardy moves and grabs a fire extinguisher. Hardy sprays Umaga with the fire extinguisher multiple times and they head to the backstage area. Umaga with a punch to the throat and throws him into a wall. He misses a chair shot and Hardy runs up some stairs. Hardy slides down the rail for a clothesline into a pin on the stairs for 2! Hardy collapses at the top of the stairs, and Umaga tosses him into a trashcan for a 2! Umaga punches Jeff in the head, and they are going to the parking lot. Umaga gets thrown into a wooden case and a vehicle for 2! Umaga throws Jeff against a WWE truck, and he continues until Hardy slams Umaga into the truck. He chokes Umaga with a rope and gets a 2. Hardy elbows at Umaga and sends him into the truck. Jeff is climbing up a WWE truck and Umaga follows him. Umaga gets kicked off the truck and Hardy does a swanton off the truck. You can't see anything for a few seconds and Jeff is on top of Umaga for the 3. 

I didn't like the fact that they covered up the finish a bit, and that they blew off some big moves early in the match. I liked the innovative clothesline, but this wasn't their best match. Still a good end to a good on and off battle. ***

Very good series to watch and its great to see how the series develops over the span of the 11 matches. Quick ratings. 

I~**1/2
II~**
III~**3/4
IV~**1/4
V~***1/2
VI~***
VII~***1/4
VIII~***
IX~*
X~**3/4
XI~***

Not a single bad match and 3 TV matches that are ***+ with 2 PPV ***+.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Punk's DVD is DVDOTY definitely. Not sure what I would have #2. The COTC DVD is also pretty good, as is the ECW Unreleased set. Those are probably my top 3. Rock #4 and Edge at #5. 


When you put out a 3 disc set and its all matches you have to allow for repeats and clunkers. Clash DVD was damn good. I had fun watching a lot of that stuff over the 3 days it took me to go through it. Same can be said for the ECW DVD. You probably could have put together better sets but that's not to say those are also good. 


I haven't seen Lesnar or Attitude Era sets, may cop those. the nWo set isn't good at all and its probably the worst set they put out in a long time. Haven't seen Falls Count Anywhere either and I'm in no rush to see it. 


So here's my top:
#1-CM Punk
#2-ECW Unreleased
#3-COTC
#4-The Rock
#5-Edge

I had fun with the sets this year. The nWo set is by far the most disappointing and I wish I hadn't paid full price for it but hey, they can't all be gems.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Orton and Taker had HIAC? Man, I gotta check that one out?
> 
> Hey, what do you guys think about their SD match? The match was ok but holy shit that casket magic trick was pretty damn laughable. I laughed my ass off hard with that one.


WM21 - ****1/4
SS - ****1/4
SD (16/9/05) - ****
NM - ****
ARM - ****1/2

Absolutely awesome series.


Best DVDs of the year: 1. The Epic Journey of Dwayne Johnson 2. You Think You Know Me


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Orton:

WM21- ****1/4
SS- ****
SD (9/16/2005)- ****
NM- ****
Armageddon- ****1/4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Wrestlemania - ****
Summerslam- ***3/4
Smackdown- ***3/4
NM- ***1/2
Armageddon- ****1/4


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

So what are you guys getting for Christmas in terms of DVDs?

For me: 
CM Punk: BITW
WM28
Greatest Steel Cage Matches
Both Shawn Michaels three disc sets
Falls Count Anywhere
Best of RAW and Smackdown 2011
Roddy Piper: Born to Controversy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I am getting:







. Slight chance my friends might get me a couple from SilverVision's sale, but I reckon they are getting me a PS3 game (putting together, tight bastards :side.


----------



## UT4L (Apr 2, 2012)

Guys what are your three favourite matces from WWF/E.

Factoring in:

Story-line heading in 
Pre-match promos/ psychology/ build up/ novelty
Quality of match
Twists? in the ring/after
Conclusion -satisfying?

For me it has to be:

1. Undertaker vs Shawn Micheals Hell in a cell Badd Blood 1997
2. Stone Cold Steve Austing vs The Rock, Wrestlemania 17
3. Not so sure between, Bret Hart vs SCSA Wrestlemania 13 or Triple H vs Shawn vs Benoit Wrestlemania 20


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

WM21 - **** 1/4
SS - **** 1/4
SD - Don't remember
NM - *** 3/4
ARM - **** 1/4


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, I'm looking at finally getting Wrestlemania anthology 6-10 finally to completely my collection of WMs. 

Other than that, I don't know. Maybe Dusty Rhodes DVD, actually looking for suggestions.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't bother with Dusty's set. Unless you are a HUGE fan of the guy. I couldn't finish his documentary. Only WWF/E doc I've failed to watch. And he doesn't exactly have any classic matches either. Best matches he's been involved in are War Games.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Flair cage match is incredible. The Murdoch tag on there is awesome well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never cared for any of the Flair/Dusty matches. The Murdoch tag interests me. Mainly because of DICK.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Anyone else enjoy the RVD/Show/HHH triple threat from Raw 2/20/06? Just watched it for the first time and thought it was great fun.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Biggest little man for £7? I love silvervision.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hambuganomics said:


> Anyone else enjoy the RVD/Show/HHH triple threat from Raw 2/20/06? Just watched it for the first time and thought it was great fun.


*** for it, and FUN is definitely how I'd describe it. Show/HHH were doing great things with each other at the time and I was worried RVD would kill it, but he didn't suck as bad as usual so the match was good .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Trying to find HHH/Show from the week before. No luck.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Smackdown 02/15/2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit*

***1/2 They have another amazing 8 minute match, although not as good as the first one. They had a neat bit of storytelling with Benoit getting thrown off in the first match by Austin holding his own on the mat, so he went right to beating the shit out of Austin here. Great intensity and insane hate filled brawling as well as a ton of great counters. Just a shame it ended with a out of nowhere finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For some reason I KNEW Cal would hate the Boiler Room Brawl between Undertaker vs Mankind, haha. I love all 100% aspects of that match to death. KOTR '96 match is :mark: :mark: :mark: Dare I say it might be their best overall match. Certainly not the most memorable, but my word it's fantastic.

Undertaker vs Orton series. I can sum it up like this: All the matches that wasn't the Handicap Casket from No Mercy are in the ****+ range. No Mercy is..idk. Boring as hell.

It appears that I must see this Flair vs Kerry Von Erich match from Hawaii. Haven't been convinced on two of their matches. Which baffle me greatly. But, if they did create magic then I have to see it.

I love Dusty Rhodes. Not crazy about the matches with Flair either, but I'd gladly own his DVD for the Doc. The only WWE documentary I couldn't get myself to finish was Superstar Billy Graham's. Meh. Can't say I care remotely enough to bother with it. I want a Bob Backlund one dammit.

What else was covered...OH, yeah Undertaker vs Great Khali Last Man Standing is a legit really good match. ***1/2. Don't care if it was heavily edited. I didn't see the bad parts. Good TV match & best of Khali's entire lifetime.

Think that's about it. I want all the matches for Nitro set #2 to be listed asap.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Revenge of the Taker is the best Undertaker/Mankind match. Then HIAC, but that's so damn crazy its hard to put with the others. Then KOTR 96. Buried Alive. Raw street fight. Casket match from a house show. Am I missing any others?

And then right at the bottom, the boiler room dull. Needed about 20 minutes shaven off it lol. So looong. And there wasn't commentary either right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series '96. Aka the lost match in their series.
MSG 5/17/97 Lumberjack Match
Sunday Night Heat 8/8/98
RAW 9/14/98
Sunday Night Heat 12/6/98
RAW 3/1/99

Yep. No commentary for Boiler Room Brawl. Just the sounds of PAIN.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never realised they had so many TV matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Willing to bet, if I go look atm, that a good bit of those matches are short. Counting tags then it would add more to the matches on TV listing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, Heat matches are likely very short, same with the 99 match. Might give them all a watch, got access to everything. Everyone else is doing series of matches. I could do this and the Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT.



Saint Dick said:


> Trying to find HHH/Show from the week before. No luck.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport#.UM0qSG-fGSo


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For the Taker/Orton series, I really don't understand why out of all their matches, they chose to feature the casket one in Orton's DVD. If they really wanted a match where Orton wins, SummerSlam would have been better. Not saying the casket match is bad.

@Hailsabin: I finally got that JBL shit done and sent the link to ya through rep if you have missed it. Was a bit of a pain since numerous attempts at converting resulted in crashes at 99% until I realized that I can choose to convert whichever part I want. Will upload a lot more TV stuff if I don't get busted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Go for it. (Y)

I don't know why Undertaker vs Mankind matches didn't pop into my head. I think I jumped on the ball for Punker/Cena only to motivate me to watch NOC already. Rockers/Brainbusters was more of a personal goal. Been wanting to watch those in order and witness tag team brilliance for the pure fun of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't jump into my head because I've seen pretty much all the matches you'd kinda NEED to see in their series, but fuck it, I wanna watch em all again and see the other TV matches that I may have missed out on over the years. Survivor Series 96 match might be the only one I don't have access to on disc which will save me a ton of time hunting shit down.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sweet.

In the mood to watch a full show. Gonna check out Night of Champions '12. Looks better than Summerslam, Hell in a Cell, Survivor Series and No Way Out which are the other PPVs I haven't seen this year. Oh and Money in the Bank. Thoughts on those shows?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm even beginning to wonder if I have seen the match. I'm fully aware of it. Only, I have zero remembrance of anything that occurred. Paul Bearer was locked in a cage above the ring JJ Dillon style. Yep, only thing that comes up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I'm even beginning to wonder if I have seen the match. I'm fully aware of it. Only, I have zero remembrance of anything that occurred. Paul Bearer was locked in a cage above the ring JJ Dillon style. Yep, only thing that comes up.


Ahh, its THAT match. I remember the Paul Bearer part of it lol. Downloading the match now. Will probably not review all the matches from scratch, got some already done from last year. Plus I don't even wanna see the boiler room brawl match again .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Taker/Mankind from SSeries is kinda fun but too short and wasn't the right way to end (?) that feud. I remember it being essentially an extended squash.



Saint Dick said:


> Sweet.
> 
> In the mood to watch a full show. Gonna check out Night of Champions '12. Looks better than Summerslam, Hell in a Cell, Survivor Series and No Way Out which are the other PPVs I haven't seen this year. Oh and Money in the Bank. Thoughts on those shows?


NOC was a good show. HIAC and Series were rubbish with one match per card REALLY worth watching. NWO was just pure rubbish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

End to the feud was the No Holds Barred on RAW right before It's Time.

Money in the Bank is worth your time.
No Way Out is weird. Half of the show is actually really good/solid. Other half is the worst kind of wrestling you can witness.
Hell in a Cell is a total one match show.
Survivor Series...yeah, another one match show. Unless you get into the opener.

Yet to see Night of Champions myself. I bet it's good. Looks like it on paper.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Taker/Mankind was a great series of the worst matches ever. You talk about FIGHTS? Yes. Wrestling matches? Fuck no. I think Taker was an asshole and threw in armbar in one of those things but for the most part they were slugfests. 

The Survivor Series match was a mess. Undertaker in that leather thing he was in and he had wings!


My personal favorite Mankind/Undertaker match (non-HIAC) was Revenge of the Taker WWE title match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think Foley's style makes you assume they were "fights". Obviously they were wrestling matches.

Don't agree with that "great series of the worst matches ever." It doesn't even make sense. I've seen better oxymoron's.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

jonoaries said:


> Taker/Mankind was a great series of the worst matches ever. You talk about FIGHTS? Yes. Wrestling matches? Fuck no. I think Taker was an asshole and threw in armbar in one of those things but for the most part they were slugfests.


I'm trying to figure what you mean. Did you like the matches? Why shouldn't have they been slugfests? It's two really big dudes who clearly didn't like each other.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Stay FAR away from the Night of Champions opener, and disagree with what every casual fan may tell you about that match ; It's one of the worst PPV openers in a long, LONG time. Cena-Punk is classic, Ziggler-Orton is borderline four stars, while Del Rio-Sheamus is good but I never cared for the match at all because it has Del Rio in it 

Gonna watch my best rated of 2012 back to back to see which one emerges as the clear MOTY. Anyone else planning to do the same ?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

So does everyone agree Punk BITW is DVDOTY?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Of course it is, unless you have some sort of blind disdain for the guy. Easily one of the best WWE Produced DVDs actually, in running for top 5 IMO. unk2


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

'Taker/Mankind was a great series of the worst matches ever'

WHAT???? Forgive me for jumping the gun but sorry that is utter utter bullshit. Those two guys clicked instantly and had some of the best matches of The Undertaker's career, which was a feat considering it was right after his shitty 1995 period with his 'classics' against King Kong Bundy and Kama.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I found Cena/Punk NOC to be the same old shit really. **** match imo but tbh, I could care less to re-watch it. I think Cena/Punk got burned out by the time they had their finisher fest of a RAW match. 

And while we're on the topic of Taker/Makind, damn there was this match I really liked. I don't know exactly from which event but one of the spots was Mankind diving head first into a table.

Some other things, gonna check out the Orton/Taker series first thing in the morning. Download Flair/Kerry Hawaii as well. Never saw any of their other matches but it's the only XWT-Classics had and it seems to have a lot of buzz so why the hell not?

Oh and i think we can all agree on Punk's DVD being the best of the year. 

I'm trying to determine my MOTY but there's just something about 2012 that that seems so mediocre to me. There's been quite a few **** matches but none of them really stand out as memorable or scream "Classic" ten years from now. None of the D-Bryan/Punk matches are classics imo. Will they be rememred as good wrestling matches? Of course. Will they go down in history? Probably not. That is key in determining MOTY for me.

I just really don't find 2012 to have a match that really stands out. Maybe HBK/Taker and Punk/Cena spoiled me and I just expect too damn much these days.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^^^That's the match from Revenge of the Taker in 1997. GREAT match between Foley & the Dead Man.

I guess I wasn't the only guy here confused by the statement made about "best series with the worst matches" quote. It really did leave me wondering what they meant by that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I would say Taker/HHH is the standout match of this year and 10 years down the road people are going to regard it as an all time classic just for the simple fact that it restored some credibility into the HIAC match type seeing as how the last few have totally bombed because of the gimmick PPV. They showed that you don't need to have blood in that kind of match. All you need is a good story and two fantastic workers (and guest referee).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Night of Champions 2012*

The Miz v Cody Rhodes v Rey Mysterio v Sin Cara
-- Not my cup of tea. Basically a collection of moves. Some looked cool, some looked like shit. Best part was the exchange between Miz and Cody. Sin Cara is awful. JBL on commentary helped. If they do Cara/Rey at Mania it could blow.

Kofi Kingston & R-Truth v Daniel Bryan & Kane
-- This was seriously entertaining. Not a whole lot to it in terms of actual in-ring work but the Kane/Bryan shtick was a ton of fun to watch. HUG IT OUT + I AM THE TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS > anything Kofi and Truth have ever done.

Antonio Cesaro v Zack Ryder
-- Dug this quite a bit as a showcase for Cesaro. His moveset is swanky and Ryder's comeback was good too. Never paid much attention to Ryder as a worker before but he seems like the type of guy who's good at eating offense, taking a beating and timing his hope spots/combacks. Cesaro's uppercut :mark: JBL had a great line about bicuspids. 

Dolph Ziggler v Randy Orton
-- Good match. For whatever reason I couldn't get into it as much as I wanted to but everything they did was sound and the finishing stretch was great. Liked how Dolph avoided Orton's DDT twice before Randy finally hit it on the outside. The barricade bump by Ziggler right before that was awesome. Nice finish too. 

Layla v Eve
-- Why was Layla smiling constantly at the start of the match? Assuming it had something to do with her character. Anyway, on to the match. It was actually legitimately good. Eve was a total bitch in it. (Y) Best divas match I've seen in ages. If I had to choose between re-watching this or the IC title 4 way I'd pick this every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Sheamus v Alberto Del Rio
-- Another good match. I wasn't paying full attention at all times but I could tell it was good. By the time the finishing stretch came around I was completely into it. Really starting to warm to Sheamus as one of the best workers in the company. His babyface turn has been a huge success. 

CM Punk v John Cena
-- Excellent main event, just like their other two PPV matches. I can understand people not liking the finish and/or thinking the finishers were overdone but it all worked fine to me. Maybe could've done with one less GTS since Punk busted out the Rock Bottom too (which was pretty fucking awesome and got a huge reaction) but whatever, I saw it as them both wanting the win so badly that nothing was enough to put away the other guy. They have great chemistry. Heyman added to it as well. Has Cena ever done a suicide dive before? That was cray. This is probably the weakest of their PPV trilogy but that's not a knock on it because all three of them are fantastic.

Thought this was a great show. Liked everything on it except for the opener and Punk/Cena was the GREAT match it needed to go with a bunch of good/fun matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A divas match over a 4 way with Cody Rhodes? Sin Cara gets 100% of the blame.

I should stop talking about it and download the show this instant.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yes you should.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Getting it now. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When you look at this year , there are three Match of the Year contenders that stand out away from the rest of the crowd :

- The Undertaker vs Triple H : Wrestlemania XXVIII
- Brock Lesnar vs John Cena : Extreme Rules 2012
- CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan : Over the Limit 2012

Now, when you look at which one of these will be the UNIVERSAL MOTY 10 years from now, we have to compare their universal ratings. Taker-HHH gets a TON of MOTY consideration, though there are a few guys out there who I've seen rate the match @ less than **** (absurd IMO). Lesnar-Cena (my current MOTY , pre-rewatching all MOTY contenders) has a VERY mixed reaction due to the nature of the match and ESPECIALLY the finish. I don't rate booking implications into my match ratings, so fuck it.

That leaves Punk-Bryan from OTL as the last candidate. Now, I don't know about you guys but I haven't seen a SINGLE review for this match under ***** 1/4*. I've seen some give it the full five, and a vast majority give it ***** 3/4+* (which I give it at the moment), so that leads me to believe that it's the universal MOTY for 2012, despite only being my personal #2.

Personally, when it comes to MOTY I pick Cena-Lesnar, but I don't think you can go wrong with Punk-Jericho (WM) , Punk-Bryan (OTL), Taker-HHH (WM) , Bryan-Sheamus (ER) or HHH-Lesnar (SS) . It's all subjective. Fuck, we should do a threadwide MOTY list where on DEC 31st we all give out top 10 matches of the year to determine what this thread considers to be the top 10 matches of the year.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA... We could do the same for individual wrestlers as well


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I wish Sin Cara didn't suck so much. When he came to WWE (I didn't follow his career prior) I was hoping we could have a series similar to the quality of matches Mysterio & Dragon had in WCW. Even with an older Mysterio he could add more storytelling into the match. Now I think Sin Cara would botch everything up too match and the transitions would be too rough. Oh well.

Sin Cara's best match is his Smackdown 2011 encounter with Christian. Was his first lost too, I believe.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I swear early on in the divas match Layla smiles at Eve like if she wanted to do more than wrestle her.

Is Bryan/Kane from Summerslam worth watching?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> When you look at this year , there are three Match of the Year contenders that stand out away from the rest of the crowd :
> 
> - The Undertaker vs Triple H : Wrestlemania XXVIII
> - Brock Lesnar vs John Cena : Extreme Rules 2012
> ...


I'm DOWN. (Y)

Of course, I'm more focused on my match series project atm. My WWE top ten list is pretty set when I think about it. Only match I had to watch would be Cena/Punker from NOC. Which I will soon.



Clique said:


> I wish Sin Cara didn't suck so much. When he came to WWE (I didn't follow his career prior) I was hoping we could have a series similar to the quality of matches Mysterio & Dragon had in WCW. Even with an older Mysterio he could add more storytelling into the match. Now I think Sin Cara would botch everything up too match and the transitions would be too rough. Oh well.
> 
> Sin Cara's best match is his Smackdown 2011 encounter with Christian. Was his first lost too, I believe.


My favorite was the carry job by Danielson on Smackdown post draft. I didn't think the Christian match was too special, but Christian did his best to make it watchable. *1/4. ** for the match vs Danielson. Sin Cara is so bad. Awful to know he has such a piss poor attitude too. I don't know how he got over in Mexico. He's nothing special and EVERYONE there knows how to fly around wearing a mask. Many other talented workers over there more deserving than him.



Saint Dick said:


> I swear early on in the divas match Layla smiles at Eve like if she wanted to do more than wrestle her.
> 
> Is Bryan/Kane from Summerslam worth watching?


Yes. Personally, I got tons of enjoyment from their bout. Maybe it's b/c I've been a longtime fan of both, but I felt it was a good match.

If only your thought on the Divas match as true... _(sometimes you have to say it)_


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> If only your thought on the Divas match as true... _(sometimes you have to say it)_


:mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> My favorite was the carry job by Danielson on Smackdown post draft. I didn't think the Christian match was too special, but Christian did his best to make it watchable. *1/4. ** for the match vs Danielson. Sin Cara is so bad. Awful to know he has such a piss poor attitude too. I don't know how he got over in Mexico. He's nothing special and EVERYONE there knows how to fly around wearing a mask. Many other talented workers over there more deserving than him.


No surprise his most passable stuff is with ring generals like Bryan and Christian who can turn chicken shit into chicken salad. Mysterio is great at making his opponent look good or using his offense to make the match excitable but he's going to have a big challenge with Cara I think. The spots here and there will look pretty (hopefully) but it's the flow/pacing and transitions need to be on point for the style of match the would put on.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Brock/Cena is one the best matches WWE has ever put on. Definite MOTY.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Punk/Bryan is my MOTY for sure. Enjoyed Brock/Cena but Punk/Bryan is more my kinda match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> No surprise his most passable stuff is with ring generals like Bryan and Christian who can turn chicken shit into chicken salad. Mysterio is great at making his opponent look good or using his offense to make the match excitable but he's going to have a big challenge with Cara I think. The spots here and there will look pretty (hopefully) but it's the flow/pacing and transitions need to be on point for the style of match the would put on.


No doubt. Not a surprise in the slightest.

Toss in the fact that Mysterio isn't exactly a spring chicken anymore. Not saying he can't go anymore, but not quite at the level he once was at. Which is natural. That's life. Only, he would have benefitted being at his best trying to have to help Sin Cara along in a match. Considering if said match does go down. Probably will. Which, I have to say, is pretty bad. Do you thing fans will honestly care? Maybe I'm biased since I loathe Sin Cara, but it isn't exactly like he's very over himself. Would it be heel vs face? face vs face? It feels too much like a bland match up. Not enough to warrant being at WrestleMania. Especially over many more talented workers. Mysterio deserves better too.



Christmas Lights said:


> Brock/Cena is one the best matches WWE has ever put on. Definite MOTY.


100% agreed.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Mysterio could wrestle a mop and make it look good. Sin Cara will be just fine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I don't buy that at all. Sin Cara is worse than a mop.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Mysterio/Sin Cara exchanges at Night of Champions did not get me exited about a potential match between the two. In fact it did the opposite.



Alim said:


> Mysterio could wrestle a mop and make it look good. Sin Cara will be just fine.


Who's the chick in your sig?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> When you look at this year , there are three Match of the Year contenders that stand out away from the rest of the crowd :
> 
> - The Undertaker vs Triple H : Wrestlemania XXVIII
> - Brock Lesnar vs John Cena : Extreme Rules 2012
> ...


Yer definitely I'm up for this idea, pretty much already got my top 10 list done right now and I don't really feel it will change. As I don't really see any awesome ****** matches coming from TLC. 

But gonna tune into most of the PPV's from this year to see if any match might sneak in or up on my list.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What's the last iron man match WWE has done? Cena/Orton? Not that I'm dying to see an hour long match or anything but wouldn't mind if they did a 30 minute one.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've actually kept up with WWE enough this year to do a possible top ten. FUCK. I've, like, never done that. I'll catch TLC either live or the next day if I'm going out when it's happening just in case there's another really good match on it (aka just in case show/sheamus is awesome again). Putting that shit in order will sting, though. I can think of about six matches that are locks and a few others that IDK if I'd rank.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> A divas match over a 4 way with Cody Rhodes? Sin Cara gets 100% of the blame.
> 
> I should stop talking about it and download the show this instant.


I don't know how it's generally regarded, but man I thought that four-way was truly awful. Rey Mysterio has had the most depressing year ever. Mistico blows and has always blown. What's with really terrible wrestlers becoming big stars in Mexico? Mistico, Vampiro, Konnan....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> What's the last iron man match WWE has done? Cena/Orton? Not that I'm dying to see an hour long match or anything but wouldn't mind if they did a 30 minute one.


I'm down for another one. A perfect time to give out a 30 minute iron man was probably in the middle of the Punk vs Danielson matches.



Yeah1993 said:


> I don't know how it's generally regarded, but man I thought that four-way was truly awful. Rey Mysterio has had the most depressing year ever. Mistico blows and has always blown. What's with really terrible wrestlers becoming big stars in Mexico? Mistico, Vampiro, Konnan....


3 people in less than an hour said it's horrible. I'll buy it. The only Mysterio matches I know that were worth seeing this year was vs Danielson. And a fun bout vs Miz at Summerslam. Rest is skippable or wasn't anything noteworthy due to Rey.

Konnan & Mistico are terrible. Vampiro...I liked him. I guess that's bias since I grew up liking him back in WCW. I've seen worse in Mexico. Luckily guys like El Santo, El Hijo Del Santo, & Mysterio are gods in that country. It seems to even out when some blow up and are awful while there are very quality workers who manage to actually be deserving of the praise and respect they get. 

A current portion _(try majority)_ of Lucha is SO bad right now. Has been for years. I'd say only a few vets can actually entertain me right now. Most of the talent over there is so sloppy and don't care. I know Lucha can be wild at times, but they take it to a new level of sloppy nowadays.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Another match type they should do more is 2 out of 3 falls. Bryan/Sheamus was superb.

Safe to say that Punk is the wrestler of the year?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

At least Konnan was good managing LAX in TNA and he taught Bret the Sharpshooter. His greatest contributions to my wrestling entertainment as far as he goes.

My Top 10 Matches of 2012

End Of An Era 
Brock/Cena 
Punk/Bryan OTL 
Sheamus/Bryan ER 
Punk/Jericho Mania 
Punk/Jericho ER 
Punk/Bryan MITB
Punk/Cena NOC 
Punk/Henry Raw 4/02 
Brock/Trips 

Good year for Punk. I'm also a fan of Orton/Ziggler NOC, Bryan/Sheamus Raw 7/30, and Sheamus/Show HIAC. Rock/Cena was not the best match but the atmosphere from ringside was terrific!



Saint Dick said:


> Another match type they should do more is 2 out of 3 falls. Bryan/Sheamus was superb.


Orton/Del Rio just had a boring 2/3 Falls match on Raw a couple weeks ago. However, I would like to see guys like Bryan, Punk, and Christian in them.




> Safe to say that Punk is the wrestler of the year?


Most definitely.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well I know we're supposed to wait until December 31st, but I'm impatient (plus who knows what could change based on TLC).  Here's my Top 10 Matches for 2012:

10) Punk vs. Kane vs. Bryan NWO (***3/4)
9) Sheamus vs. Big Show HIAC (***3/4)
8) Punk vs. Jericho ER (***3/4)
7) Lesnar vs. Cena ER (***3/4)
6) Undertaker vs. HHH WM28 (****)
5) Punk vs. Cena NOC (****)
4) Punk vs. Henry Raw 4/2/12 (****)
3) Bryan vs. Sheamus ER (****)
2) Punk vs. Jericho WM28 (****1/2)
1) Punk vs. Bryan OTL (*****)

Number of matches for each wrestler in Top 10:
Punk- 6
Bryan- 3
Sheamus- 2
Cena- 2
Jericho- 2
Taker- 1
HHH- 1
Lesnar- 1
Henry- 1
Show- 1
Kane- 1

Can't see any match getting from TLC getting MOTY or breaking into my top 5. I could maybe see Cena/Ziggler getting into this top 10 list, and a very small chance of Show/Sheamus breaking into it, but besides that can't say I'm expecting anything else.

For TLC, I'm expecting a decent showing at least from Barrett and Kofi (thought their Raw match was good from the night after Survivor Series). Cesaro/Truth will be... well... fuck I have no idea. On one hand you have Cesaro in the match. On the other hand you have Truth. Should be at least watchable. Show/Sheamus with the fact it's a Chairs match could be either really good or really bad... as a chairs match usually is. TLC 6-man tag will be fun, but I don't expect it to be "great". Cena/Ziggler has potential to steal the show and I could see them maybe pulling off a ****+ match. And the tag match (which I think is a tables match?) could be good, but I'm not expecting anything great. I'm generally not a fan of tables matches.

So yeah, besides Cena/Ziggler, I'm not expecting much out of this PPV.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^Highest rating I've seen for Punk/Bryan/Kane. I'll have to give that a watch.



Clique said:


> My Top 10 Matches of 2012
> 
> End Of An Era
> Brock/Cena
> ...


Replace Punk/Jericho ER with Sheamus/Show HiaC and that's my top 10. Well top 9. Haven't seen Punk/Bryan MitB yet.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

For me the match of the year is definetey Punk/Bryan from OTL. Second would be the End of an Era match


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

TLC 6 man tag could be chaotic glory and a late MOTYC depending how violent it gets and how impressive they implement the spots. I remember the 4-way ladder match at Armageddon 06 literally coming out of nowhere and becoming of the best matches that year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. ***3/4 is where I have Punk vs Danielson vs Kane from NWO too. Really good triple threat match.

My top 10 off the top of my head will be:

1) John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ~ _Extreme Rules_ ****3/4
2) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ~ _WrestleMania 28_ ****1/2
3) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ~ _Money In The Bank_ ****1/2
4) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ~ _Over The Limit_ ****1/2
5) Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ~ _Extreme Rules_ ****1/4
6) The Undertaker vs Triple H ~ _WrestleMania 28_ ****1/2
7) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ~ _RAW 1/30/12_ ****1/4
8) CM Punk vs Mark Henry ~ _RAW 4/2/12_ ****
9) Sheamus vs Big Show ~ _Hell in a Cell_ ****
10) Christian vs Drew McIntyre ~ _Superstars 5/31/12_ ****

Punker or Danielson for WOTY. Probably Punk gets the edge since, lets face it, he's still on top. Sheamus wins my *WORKHORSE OF THE YEAR* award. Only name that seems fitting. The amount of awesome, consistent matches weekly & on PPV has been excellent. Only one manages to make the top 10, but most are well worth a watch. Now people know my top 3 for wrestlers in WWE during 2012.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Top 100 Raw moments DVD is worth a look if you have some free time , did feel like every other moment was a DX/McMahon moment. Also some of the fan shots were a bit cringe worthy.

*Top for 2012*

Cena/Brock (ER) ****3/4
Bryan/Sheamus (ER) ****1/2
Punk/Bryan (OTL) ****1/2
Punk/Jericho ( ER) ****
Punk/Jericho (WM) ****
HHH/Undertaker (WM) ****
Punk/Henry (Raw) ***3/4
Punk/Bryan/Kane (NWO) ***3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My thoughts on the NOC 4 way when I watched it live:

"Personally thought the four way was a load of shit. Looked waaaay too choreographed for the most part, and most of it turned out shitty."


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> *Night of Champions 2012*
> 
> The Miz v Cody Rhodes v Rey Mysterio v Sin Cara
> -- Not my cup of tea. Basically a collection of moves. Some looked cool, some looked like shit. Best part was the exchange between Miz and Cody. Sin Cara is awful. JBL on commentary helped. If they do Cara/Rey at Mania it could blow.
> ...


Glad to see Eve and Layla getting the praise they deserve (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Danielson has done nothing to be called WOTY. I don't even know why the Observer gave it to him in 2010 and 2011 considering that he worked nothing but 3-4 minute matches and odd 10+ minute match here or there. Other than that he did nothing to deserve the award imo.

It should go to Punk. Simply because he's been in the main event, well the 'main event' the entire year and has consistently delivered on PPV.

Oh and speaking of top 10 matches, don't expect Taker/HHH anywhere on my list. I'm one of the few who has it at ***1/2. The match reminds me of Flair/HBK. Lots of emotion but not a good match overall. 

I mean we complain when Cena and Orton barely utilize the cell yet we give HHH and Taker a free pass? Come on guys, let's call this down the middle. They probably used the cell twice and most of the match was spent in the ring. This match could have easily been a NO-DQ and no one would have been able to tell the difference. The cell was just non-existent.

I need to re-watch the Punk/Bryan series. I'm not a fan of just pure wrestling (gotta have dat story!) so just letting you guys know I may not be too high on OTL like most. Maybe I'll download a PPV pack from XWT so I can re-watch matches like Sheamus/Bryan and Lesnar/Cena. Damn, I know for sure ER is PPV of the year. Sheamus/Bryan, Punk/Jericho and Lesnar/Cena all took place on that PPV. Plus, Orton/Kane was fun while it lasted. That PPV really stands out to me, to this day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I too am a fan of that Eve/Layla match. Eve was fucking awesome in it. Some of the best "character work" I've seen from a female wrestler.

Gonna go watch Undertaker/HHH and Bryan/Punk (OTL) now so I can put my top 10 MOTY list together. They are both tied at #1, need to see if I can separate them.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The story telling of Eve/Laya really got to me. Damn, some of the best character work I have seen from any wrestler, male or female, in recent times. That and the psychology behind Eve working the ribs and just laying in that body scissors. As JBL said "If you're gonna lay there for 30 minutes dong that to get someone to tap out, that's what you do!" Then the finish was just perfect.

It's a solid ***1/4-***1/2 match.

Such a shame the fans in attendance had to be such dumb cunts chanting "Boring"

Can't forget the few morons on this place as well who didn't even look at the match but were the first to judge with their "Bathroom break!" comments. Honestly, Eve/Layla tops that spotfest of a match Beth and Natayla had on SD. And it's not really a spotfest but the match was nothing but each girl wrapping each other up in submissions. Not to mention Beth's no selling of the sharpshooter by just getting up afterwards like nothing ever happened.

Eve/Laya is definitely 2012's most underrated match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I probably wouldn't have even watched it had I not decided to stream the show live for a change (I hardly EVER stream shows, I just download the next day) because I wanted to see Punk/Cena live lol. Shame Eve hasn't really done much since. I was starting to like her as a character during the Big Johnny Administration, then when she had that match and won the title I thought maybe they'd do more with her. Instead we barely see her. I'm probably one of the few remaining AJ fans around these parts, so I like that she's getting featured, but during her height of being featured she wasn't wrestling, so why couldn't they have had Eve featured for the wrestling still at that time, and AJ as the fucking lunatic non wrestler?


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TLC is tonight, right? Not that I'm going to even touch it. Maybe the Sheamus/Show match at a later date, but for now, another one for me to completely skip. (even though the lack of Punk should be enough reason to watch)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC has potential for some fun matches. Ziggler/Cena ladder could be good, Show/Sheamus might make the chairs stip work, 6 man tag TLC has potential for tremendous fun, tag tables match could be entertaining if Sin Cara doesn't botch everything. Doubt anything is gonna be a MOTYC, but the card definitely screams FUN to me.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> TLC is tonight, right? Not that I'm going to even touch it. Maybe the Sheamus/Show match at a later date, but for now, another one for me to completely skip. (even though the lack of Punk should be enough reason to watch)


Really?

We're getting Cena/Ziggler and the 6 man TLC match which is no doubt going to be total arnage and you're saying there is absolutely no reason to watch TLC tonight? Dean Ambrose's first WWE match?

Oh and of course Sheamus/Show is going to be a war. 

Tonight's PPV should be lots of fun.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Really?
> 
> We're getting Cena/Ziggler and the 6 man TLC match which is no doubt going to be total arnage and you're saying there is absolutely no reason to watch TLC tonight? Dean Ambrose's first WWE match?
> 
> ...


I just have zero reasons to care about the product until The Rock is back. I might give those matches you mentioned a watch later on but I'm definitely not going to spend 3 hours on the whole thing. And yes, the number of fucks I give regarding the Shield stands at 0.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched the "End of an Era" Cell match at Mania.... I don't know how you guys exactly feel about it on multiple watches, but it hasn't held up as well.... AT ALL. What I once perceived to be "the best storytelling I've seen in a long time" looks like a TON of pretentiousness. It's fucking brutal as hell and the atmosphere SCREAMS epic, but I just don't know about this one. WWE will tell you that this is the match of the year for years to come, but I just don't see it at all. More of an "experience" than a match really. Don't get me wrong, the match is still awesome because of a TON of circumstances (brutality, GOOD storytelling though a little pretentious and over the top, big time atmosphere) , and I'd throw ***** 1/4* at it , but for the people throwing the full five at it? C'mon man..

Watching Punk-Jericho @ WM now to see how the two compare. I know that the live crowd OVERWHELMINGLY loves the end of an era more (because like I said, it's almost an experience that was MEANT for the live crowd), but there's a large smattering of people who love the Punk-Jericho encounter alot more. Let's just see what I think about this....


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, second watch for Taker/HHH HIAC didn't hold up as well as the first one. I bumped it down to ****1/2. But I also say the same thing about Punk/Cena at MITB. Both matches were epic when I first watched them (live, not in arena, but on stream of course) but second watch felt underwhelming both times.


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## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> but for the people throwing the full five at it? C'mon man..


I don't see the problem with people doing that. I personally do not have it at five stars but I can see people doing it based on the storytelling alone of this four year arc. If this was the last match of Taker and HHH's career it would have been perfect to END IT with what they accomplished here.

I'm also a little biased because I was there to experience it (not just watch it) live.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finished re-watching Undertaker/HHH and Bryan/Punk. My top 10 of 2012:

10. Sheamus Vs Big Show - Hell in a Cell - ****
09. Austin Aries Vs Bully Ray - Final Resolution - ****
08. CM Punk Vs John Cena - Night of Champions - ****1/4
07. Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam - ****1/4
06. Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode - Hardcore Justice - ****1/4
05. Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules - ****1/4
04. John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules - ****1/2
03. CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - WrestleMania 28 - ****1/2
02. The Undertaker Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 28 - ****3/4
01. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit - ****3/4

THE STREAK IS OVER! PUNK WINS! PUNK WINS! PUNK HAS JUST ENDED THE UNDERTAKER'S STREAK! No, not his WM one, his MOTY one. Since 06 Undertaker has been #1 in my WWE MOTY list. Well, its finally ended. Still adore the HIAC, but there is just something about the OTL match that I love even more.

Honourable Mentions:

Bully Ray Vs Joseph Park - Slammiversary
Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode - Destination X
James Storm Vs Bobby Roode - Lockdown
Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan - Raw Street Fight
CM Punk Vs Mark Henry - Raw (first of the trilogy)
William Regal Vs Dean Ambrose - FCW


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## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Looking back through my ratings these are my only ***3/4+ matches from WWE this year. To be fair I haven't watched the Sheamus/Show matches, most TV matches (except for Punk/Danielson), and the Punk/Cena NOC match. I've also only rewatched a few of these matches so there ratings might go up on a rewatch. I better burn through some must watch matches before the year ends.

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - WM - ***3/4
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - MITB - ***3/4
Sin Cara vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Damien Sandow vs. Christian vs. santino Marella vs. Tyson Kidd vs. Tensai - MITB - ***3/4
Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - NWO(?) - ***3/4
Undertaker vs. Triple H - WM - **** 
Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk - OTL - ****
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - ER - ****
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ER - ****


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So... I just rewatched Jericho-Punk RIGHT AFTER HHH-Taker and I've come so one simple conclusion ; These two are incomparable. Seriously, these matches are just SO fucking different that it's impossible to look at one or the other as the better match. Depends on your personal preference really, they're both great matches so take your pick. Jericho-Punk was a LITTLE worse this time around , but I still have it in a DEAD HEAT with Taker-HHH as the MOTN. Jericho-Punk is more of my style as far as I'm concerned, so I'll give the nod to Jericho-Punk. The "big three" of Extreme Rules is up next.

Current rankings ;

1. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WM XXVIII) : ***** 1/4*
2. The Undertaker vs Triple H (HIAC ; WM XXVIII) : ***** 1/4*

ON ANOTHER NOTE ; I thought about this a few days ago and it's stuck with me ever since... WHY DIDN'T ORTON GET A FEUD WITH PUNK OVER THE LAST YEAR ? Seriously, when Cena went down before HIAC, we should have just had Sheamus & Show in the cell while having Punk-Orton be a non-cell match. Survivor Series main event would be Punk vs Cena vs Orton ; DON'T YOU THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BETTER ? Fuck, I wanna see that match now. Punk-Orton deserve another feud to be honest, loved their 2011 shit.

If Orton doesn't get a title shot or some sort of good feud going into Mania, then I don't know what the fuck they're doing with him. Here's a guy who's one of your better workers in the company, and a guy who is fucking third in merchandise sales overall giving your company a ton of revenue...... And he hasn't had a real "feud" since October 2012. Pathetic treatment of one of your top stars, same goes with Bryan.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I agree with what you said about Orton but I wouldn't want him to job to Punk so I'm glad they've kept them away from each other during this horrible year. (apart from that Raw match that lasted about one minute before becoming a tag match)

Just finished watching the first ever HBK/Cena match from the Halloween Raw of 2005 right before Taboo Tuesday and thought it was decent. Somebody here was reviewing their series a while back and claimed that they only had 4 matches (2 in 07 and 2 in 09) but he forgot about this one. Ends in DQ as one would expect but it's okay while it lasts. Also the first time I've heard Cena getting so vocally booed since coming to Raw. I guess that's officially where the booing caught on and overtook the cheers.


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## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

1. Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28. *****
2. Punk vs. Bryan at Over the Limit. *****
3. Cena vs. Lesnar at Extreme Rules. ****1/2
4. Punk vs. Jericho at Extreme Rules. ****1/2
5. Sheamus vs. Bryan at Extreme Rules. ****1/2
6. Punk vs. Jericho at WrestleMania 28. ****1/4
7. Sheamus vs. Del Rio vs. Orton vs. Jericho at Over the Limit. ****1/4
8. Punk vs. Bryan at Money in the Bank. ****
9. Punk vs. Cena at Night of Champions. ****
10. Sheamus vs. Show at Hell in a Cell. ****

Very much looking forward to attending tonight's TLC PPV. Should be a lot of fun, and Cena/Ziggler has the potential to be a real show-stealer! Have a feeling it's gonna make the list.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Nos hit Punk/Jericho can't be comapred to HHH/Taker. Who the heck said they could have been in the first place? Two different matches based on two completely different situations told two completely different stories.

The only matches I really compare is matches where the sames guy square off. Like HBK/Taekr WM 25 and HBK/Taker WM 26. 

Not that I'm against others' opinions but holy shit the ***** being thrown at Punk/Bryan is ridiculous. The match will be forgotten in years to come. But hey, who am I to tell others what's 5 star match and what isn't?

So far here are some of my ratings for some of the year's most talked about matches:

Punk/Jericho WM ***3/4
Taker/HBK WM ***1/2
Punk/Jericho ER ****
Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ER ****
Lesnar vs Cena ****1/2
Punk/Cena ****

I honestly can't recall any of the Punk/D-Bryan matches and I've seen OTL twice!

As for Sheamus/Show. I need to re-watch it but I could see it in my top 10. I'm still split on whether it's ***3/4 or ****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So after seeing all this hype about how great Bryan/Punk from OTL is, I decided to watch it again now. Last time & the only time I had seen it was during the PPV itself and I enjoyed it. On a rewatch, though... not even close to the same extent.

*Let's start off with the positive:*
+ Crowd have their good moments, specially with the dueling "Daniel Bryan / CM Punk" chants.
+ Daniel Bryan is an excellent wrestler and as such, he does his thing every time it's his turn to be on the offense. His kicks look brutal, his submissions are executed smoothly, he has great energy, he reacts quickly with the moves and he looks like he's giving it his all.
+ Punk does a good job when it comes selling any injury he's supposed to have.
+ They get a shitload of time to work under. (23 minutes)

*Now let's go to the negatives:*
- The announcers are fucking AWFUL. I may have been spoiled since in the last 6 months I've only watched old Raw/SD shows from 03-05 but dammit, they sound like they don't even wanna be there. They rarely ever call any moves and talk about everything except the ring action. I understand JR did talk about the wrestler's background, how the feud came about and such during the match but Cole/Booker/Lawler continuously talk about them coming from the indies and having "great respect" for each other rather than just calling the moves. Plus Lawler truly sounds like he's this close to falling asleep. I know it's something that fans have accepted for a long time now but coming off epic matches less than a decade ago, this was such a huge fall.

- Punk's cardio looks terrible. I'm not surprised since he looks like he's never entered a gym all his life. But to get to why it relates to the match now. He's absolutely AWFUL at running because he makes it look like he's going through the motions and is training for the real match. He's JOGGING ffs. The move that bothers me the most from his arsenal is the Suicide Dive. He should take notes from his opponent here on how to execute one properly. This is something about Punk that has bothered me even when I was on the bandwagon. I just don't get all the hype about him being such a GR8 WRESTLER~!!! much less a ring technician.

- The overuse of submissions just for the fuck of it. Seriously, a lot of the first 15 or so minutes, they just spend putting each other in pointless submission moves just cause. Hell, Punk tries a Surfboard Stretch (or at least it looks like it) early on and when he fails to execute it (after having made Bryan look like an idiot for laying there for so long not doing shit), he just improvises by stomping Bryan on the back. They try so hard to make it some kind of technical masterpiece, it feels extremely forced with the submission overuse.

- Some sloppiness. The part where both are on the mat and try to headbutt each other was fucking terrible. It looks so fake, their heads barely even collide. And right before or after it, they try punching back and forth and even there, it looks terrible, specially Punk's punches. But none of it is as bad as when the Figure Four Leg Lock was locked in and Bryan got up to try punching his way out of it. They are both seated and throw some of the worst punches ever, again mostly from Punk.

- The finish is botched. It looked stupid then and still looks stupid now. The goal was clearly to do the controversial tap out/pinfall finish (this one is pretty much Edge/Benoit Part 2 except botched) but Punk is too slow and it ruined the finish. Still not enough of a problem. I mean Lesnar/Angle from WM19 is still a great match despite the botched SSP, so why would I use this as reason not to enjoy the match? Still worth bringing up.

*Conclusion:* *****? Hahahahaha, not in this lifetime. The negatives are a lot but there's enough positives to make this a ***1/4 for me. Admittedly, the stuff of the past which is all I've watched in the past few months might have spoiled me but the quality of this match has dropped heavily from the first time I watched it. And no, I'm not intentionally negative, I'm just honest. The Cena/Punk MITB match is far better.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Finally! Someone else sees the overratedness of Punk/Bryan. Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only damn one!

I'm a Punk fan. And I am a Bryan fan. But that doesn't mean I can't point out their flaws. That doesn't mean that I can't find them to be overrated. Oh my God, they came up on the independents!!! Best wrestlaz eva!!!! No, they're not.

Punk and Bryan went out there and their indy beginnings truly shined. As you pointed out, the overuse of submissions for the fuck of it. Typical indy bullshit. Let's bend each other up like pretzels for the fuck of it and then walk it off like nothing ever happened.

The match does have its positives as well. Now that you do mentioned, I do remember Punk selling the leg and what not but honestly the match was a more subtle indy style shit fest. The only thing they didn't do was drop each other on their heads 20 times and a bunch of false finished. Then it would have been a complete indy shitfest.

Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are extremely overrated and I'm sick of this IWC mindset that once someone comes up from the indies they are miles are ahead of everyone. It's not true. Coming from the indies doesn't mean shit. 

Again, I'm a fan of both guys. I like their characters and they can deliver great matches. But put them in a situation where they get to show off their roots and it shows how flawed both men are. I remember there was this one stupid spot D-Bryan did on RAW a time. A top rope double arm underhook suplex....into the yes lock. Just stupid! At least try to get a pin first. Since when the fuck did wrestling turn into street fighter and everyone's hitting combos?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan is far from overrated.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Bryan is far from overrated.


His knowledge of holds is spot on. He's a damn good submission specialist.

But he's not the guy who could wrestle a fucking broom guy everyone makes him out to be. Just my opinion.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Everything said about Punk/Bryan in regardless to submissions and things being done for the sake of doing them can be said for Benoit/Angle in my opinion. 

The whole goal of working a technical match is to tell a story about both men trying to outwrestle the other and establish a limb/focus of attack that creates some drama. Them spending a lot of time trying to work each other into submissions makes sense from a wrestling and storytelling aspect. They're trying to seize control and find a target to attack in the process, a game of human chess if you will. Definitely disagree on the finish being botched. Looked clearly like they tried to protect Bryan and complete the match story with Punk being able to find a counter that Bryan couldn't react to in time. The deal with Punk tapping immediately after the count further made me think they were trying to get over that Punk more or less saved his title in the space of a second and that Bryan only lost because he didn't expect the counter and placed too much faith that his submission would win him the match.

Only issue I actually had with the finish is it did come off a little too quick. I get that with those sort of finishes the unpredictability is what they're aiming for, but it has to be timed expertly to get the desired reaction because otherwise you'll be sort of stunned at the match ending in the blink of an eye. I admire the creativity and story payoff behind the finish, but I think the difficulty of execution in timing the finish worked against them.

I also find a lot of the comments about the independent scene to be un-needed. People don't mark for both because they're from the Independent scene. They admire them because they're immensly passionate and talented performers for different reasons, and who represent what hard work, talent and dedication can reward you with in amongst a sea of wrestlers who get where they are through connections or their look as opposed to their actual talent. Bryan could have worked his entire career in Japan before coming to WWE and he'd still be adored. Its the talent and creativity in the performers that makes them popular, not simply because they're from the independent scene.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Finally! Someone else sees the overratedness of Punk/Bryan. Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only damn one!
> 
> I'm a Punk fan. And I am a Bryan fan. But that doesn't mean I can't point out their flaws. That doesn't mean that I can't find them to be overrated. Oh my God, they came up on the independents!!! Best wrestlaz eva!!!! No, they're not.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Now that I think about it, I enjoyed their TV matches before Wrestlemania time a lot more. They were more focused on just putting on a match rather than forcing it to be some kind of technical masterpiece. Here we get submission overkill and even though 23 minutes was a good amount, they could've trimmed it by 5 and removed some of the slow hold heavy parts early on.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There is such a thing as "trying too hard" in wrestling.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWE MOTY top ten:

1. Lesnar v Cena (ExRules)
2. Bryan v Sheamus (ExRules)
3. Bryan v Punk (OTL)
4. Sheamus v Show (HIAC)
5. Punk v Cena (NOC)
6. Punk v Henry (Raw 4/2)
7. Punk v Jericho (Mania)
8. Sheamus v Show (Survivor Series)
9. Bryan v Show (SD 1/6) (yes, seriously)
10. Punk v Bryan (UHHHH whichever was better out of their Raw or SD matches in Jan/Feb)




FuckChristmas said:


> Honourable Mentions:
> 
> Bully Ray Vs Joseph Park - Slammiversary


Yes.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I enjoy Punk/Bryan far too much to give it anything under ****1/2 but personally have it at ****3/4. Thought it fucking owned. Not really nitpicky with it. Finish was weird but I got what they were going for and liked it. Made Bryan look good.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Who has had better matches in their title run, Cena in 06/07 or Punk in 11/12? I'm thinking Punk when looking at it overall was very consistent including TV matches. Cena had better big matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would say Cena, tbh. I absolutely love the Umaga and HBK matches. They're some of my favorite stuff ever. Loved Punk's run against Cena, Bryan, Henry & Jericho but I'd go Cena by a small margin. Didn't care for Cena much the summer of '07 but he did get a good match out of Khali which is nearly impossible.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

A story that *Hailsabin/tbhaley *might appreciate:

I went into my local CEX for another DVD bargain hunting session, this time I was looking for 2007 pay per views. Managed to pick up Backlash, Judgement Day, ONS/Extreme Rules, Vengeance, TGAB, Unforgiven and New years revolution all from that year. £19 for the lot.

Haven't watched any yet but I want to know what matches are worth looking out for. General ratings and comments for these events would also be appreciated. Going to need some hype to get me up for watching that stack of events after tonights six hour marathon of Impact, Wrestle talk TV and TLC!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Who has had better matches in their title run, Cena in 06/07 or Punk in 11/12? I'm thinking Punk when looking at it overall was very consistent including TV matches. Cena had better big matches.


Definitely Cena. Punk's had too many matches I didn't like that much (SSeries v Del Rio, TLC 3-way, MITB v Bryan, Rumble v Ziggler, ExRules v Jericho, any time he faced Ryback, like...every 3-way he's had). I said a while ago I'd check out Cena's title reign TV year which I obv haven't done yet, but I still plan to do it. I don't really think Punk's TV reign has been THAT great anyway. I like the Bryan and Ziggler matches and loved the Henry match, but he hasn't had anything that touches Cena/Michaels and that match is like 85% Cena.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Definitely Cena. Punk's had too many matches I didn't like that much (SSeries v Del Rio, TLC 3-way, MITB v Bryan, Rumble v Ziggler, ExRules v Jericho, any time he faced Ryback, like...every 3-way he's had). I said a while ago I'd check out Cena's title reign TV year which I obv haven't done yet, but I still plan to do it. I don't really think Punk's TV reign has been THAT great anyway. I like the Bryan and Ziggler matches and loved the Henry match, *but he hasn't had anything that touches Cena/Michaels and that match is like 85% Cena*.


Cena's masterful selling of the leg after HBK worked on it for ten minutes is one of the highlights of the match IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Who has had better matches in their title run, Cena in 06/07 or Punk in 11/12? I'm thinking Punk when looking at it overall was very consistent including TV matches. Cena had better big matches.


My answer is predictable but whatever, I go with Cena.

Great matches include: TLC & steel cage with Edge, Umaga, HBK, Backlash 4 way, Orton and even the Khali matches were better than the standards for Khali. I haven't seen the match with Lashley but from what I've heard, it looks like a good match.

From Punk's run, I enjoyed the NoC match with Cena, OTL with Bryan at first (now it's just average to me) and the WM Jericho match was alright. Oh and TLC was okay too. Don't care enough to remember anything else.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> he hasn't had anything that touches Cena/Michaels and that match is like 85% Cena.



I think I mentioned this to you before but I disagree with the Michaels/Cena assessment. Cena _looked_ like a ring general in that match but it was a tremendous effort from both men imo. Michaels did a great job selling the duration of that match. I still don't see what in that match makes it look like it was 85 percent Cena and Michaels was essentially just there.



AndreBaker said:


> A story that *Hailsabin/tbhaley *might appreciate:
> 
> I went into my local CEX for another DVD bargain hunting session, this time I was looking for 2007 pay per views. Managed to pick up Backlash, Judgement Day, ONS/Extreme Rules, Vengeance, TGAB, Unforgiven and New years revolution all from that year. £19 for the lot.
> 
> Haven't watched any yet but I want to know what matches are worth looking out for. General ratings and comments for these events would also be appreciated. Going to need some hype to get me up for watching that stack of events after tonights six hour marathon of Impact, Wrestle talk TV and TLC!


2007 is not one of the stronger PPV years in recent memory. Backlash was a strong card and arguably the best PPV of the year along with Mania, Rumble, and Survivor Series that year. The two title matches on that show were stellar - Cena/Michaels/Orton/Edge & Taker/Batista LMS. I didn't like Judgment Day, ONS, or Unforgiven. Hardys/WGTT Ladder Match at ONS was good. GAB had a solid main event with Cena/Lashley (maybe even underrated) and the Umaga/Hardy match. Vengeance was average too. Best match was probably the Edge/Batista match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh Cena's year reign> Punk's and I don't even think that's up for a debate.

Cena was really top dog during those times. He always delivered in the main event. Punk delivered as well but shitty booking got the better of him.

In terms of booking and matches, Cena had it better.

Punk just didn't have the booking like Cena did to really make his reign memorable.

Oh and C2D, Cena/Lashley is freaking awesome. You will hear me say a lot when talking about Cena that he has the best timing out of everyone on the roster and that match fully supports my argument. He knows when and how to change the pace of a match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk's year long reign was easily better than Cena's imo. Nothing from Cena touches Punk/Bryan OTL, and Punk/Jericho beats pretty much all of Cena's reign except Cena/Umaga RR. Promo wise, Punk, as corny as he was as a face, I'd still rather listen to that than Cena during 06-07 and his heel run has easily beat out anything character wise from Cena in 07. Personally, I don't give a shit that WWE made Punk's reign a Midcard act to Cena for half of it. That comes down to circumstance as opposed to talent and overall quality. It probably comes down to me being a Punk Mark and disliking Cena during that time all around (despite having consistently good-great PPV matches), but Punk's reign far and away beats Cena and it's not really up for debate except in match quality IMO.


----------



## AirTroublein619 (Jul 15, 2011)

Just recently started watching Edge: A Decade of Decadence. Match ratings so far:

vs. Owen Hart: ** 1/4
vs. The Brood at No Mercy- *** 3/4
vs. The Dudley Boyz and the Hardy Boyz at WM 2000: **** 1/2

Any thoughts on these matches? Watching SummerSlam match vs. Lance Storm right now.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk's year reign is far better than Cena's. His still feels fresh, I'm sure the haters will disagree, but the guy entertains me every single night. Something Cena's reign lacked a lot of. And I'm a huge fan of both.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So TLC is about to come in an hour and the discussion will no doubt be taken over by talk about the PPV so before we're there, I'll drop this one fast.

*Taboo Tuesday 2005:*

Rey Mysterio/Matt Hardy vs Chris Masters/Gene Snitsky - ***
- Don't know why Edge was pulled out of this but nevertheless, a very fun match with hometown hero, Rey Mysterio putting on a great performance. Matt Hardy also did his thing while the Raw heels worked the match just fine as the stronger monsters against the underdog faces. Gets just enough time to work and I enjoyed this a lot. Masters takes the pinfall after taking a combination of Matt & Rey's finishers.

Eugene/Jimmy Snuka vs Rob Conway/Tyson Tomko - *1/2
- When my favorite out of the bunch is Rob Conway, you know how little I care about this. Very short and more of a "feel good" moment than a legitimate match with Snuka pulling out another one of his infamous splashes. Post-match, I had even less of a reason to care with "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan coming out. Don't know why but I just can't stand this guy.

Mankind vs Carlito - **3/4
- A short and fun match with Mankind making a return. Considering Carlito's potential, I can't help but feel disappointed, though. They could've used this in a No Holds Barred environment to put over Carlito as a star but instead, Foley beats him with ease and sets back all the momentum Carlito built since his debut. And Shelton went from winning the IC title here one year earlier to not even being featured on the card.

Kane/Big Show vs Trevor Murdoch/Lance Cade - **
- What's with all the tag team matches here? Anyways, not much to see other than Kane and Big Show getting started as a tag team by winning the belt with ease and squashing Murdoch and Cade.

Batista vs Jonathan Coachman/Vader/Goldust - *1/2
- Why did Stone Cold get removed from his scheduled match with The Coach? They built up for it around Homecoming but suddenly a night before the PPV, they canceled it and instead Batista along with two unexpected returns in Vader & Goldust filled in for him. Shit match since it's nothing but a squash for Batista. Liked Joey Styles' commentary, though. "Does he have a death wish?" :lmao

Divas Battle Royale - **
- For what it was, I enjoyed it. Hot outfits, story progress between Mickie & Trish and just decent enough for the divas standards. I have to wonder, though, why was Lita never given the opportunity to wrestle throughout the entire year of 2005 after her knee injury early on?

Ric Flair vs Triple H (Steel Cage) - ****1/2
- Absolutely epic. Lasts for 23 minutes but there's never a dull moment here. I was interested in every minute of it because they truly put an effort into making this exciting. Flair takes less than 4 minutes to blade and even during the resthold parts with the Figure Four, he makes this entertaining every time he flips the bird towards HHH. Not much to say other than awesome match. And the facial expression on the fan's face towards the end with those chair-shots from Flair tells the whole story to me. Surprisingly, HHH gets a standing ovation after the match. I don't even know why the Intercontinental Championship was on the line, though. It's a complete afterthought during the match and only made it more predictable for those watching since no one seriously could have expected HHH to win a midcard title after having been World Champion for the majority of the last 3 years.

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - ***3/4
- A very good way to end the PPV. Decent action involving all three men and lots of back and forth. Cena gets put through the Spanish announce table halfway through but then after resting up, he runs back in and cleans house. Then he gets a fluke of a victory by catching HBK off guard with the FU after HBK gave Angle the Sweet Chin Music. I have to say the spot building up to it was pretty dumb, though. Angle has the Ankle Lock locked in and HBK instead of running in to break it up (since kayfabe speaking, Cena might tap any minute) takes his time to climb the turnbuckle and hit the elbow. Other than that one little spot, I enjoyed this match a lot. One thing notable here is how loud the Cena haters are. The majority of the arena are overwhelmingly cheering Cena but there's a vocal minority who steadily boo him for the entire match, to the point where they almost overtake the high pitched majority supportive of Cena.

*Overall:* *** out of ***** (The main event matches were absolutely amazing while the opener was decent. The rest of the PPV ranges from average to downright terrible but the good and bad keep this steadily in the middle of the road for my final rating of it. Worth noting is also Joey Styles on commentary. Absolutely loved it!)


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Completely forgot about the PPV. I became uninterested once Punk was taken off, truly no reason to watch. But Ziggler/Cena interests me so I'll probably catch that some time eventually. Doesn't look like a very good show at all.

Edit: Also :mark: for Triple H vs. Ric Flair in 2005.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

AirTroublein619 said:


> Just recently started watching Edge: A Decade of Decadence. Match ratings so far:
> 
> vs. Owen Hart: ** 1/4
> vs. The Brood at No Mercy- *** 3/4
> ...


more like this:

vs Owen ***
vs New Brood *****
vs Dudleyz and Hardyz *****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AndreBaker said:


> A story that *Hailsabin/tbhaley *might appreciate:
> 
> I went into my local CEX for another DVD bargain hunting session, this time I was looking for 2007 pay per views. Managed to pick up Backlash, Judgement Day, ONS/Extreme Rules, Vengeance, TGAB, Unforgiven and New years revolution all from that year. £19 for the lot.
> 
> Haven't watched any yet but I want to know what matches are worth looking out for. General ratings and comments for these events would also be appreciated. Going to need some hype to get me up for watching that stack of events after tonights six hour marathon of Impact, Wrestle talk TV and TLC!


Holy crap you cleaned up. I'll let you know some quick ratings/thoughts to help you out:

*New Year's Revolution*
1) Steel Cage Match - Jeff Hardy vs John Morrison ~ ***1/2
2) Tag Team Turmoil ~ ***
3) Ric Flair vs Kenny Dykstra ~ **3/4
4) Mickie James vs Victoria ~ **
5) Rated RKO vs DX ~ ***3/4
6) Chris Masters vs Carlito Colon ~ *1/2
7) John Cena vs Umaga ~ ***1/2

----------
*Backlash*
1) Hardys vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch ~ ***3/4
2) Melina Perez vs Mickie James ~ **3/4
3) Chris Benoit vs MVP ~ **3/4
4) Bobby Lashley vs Vince, Shane, & Umaga ~ *
5) Last Man Standing - The Undertaker vs Batista ~ ****
6) John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Edge vs Randy Orton ~ ****1/2

----------
*Judgment Day* _(ok, these ones are from a WHILE ago. I have to rewatch)_
1) Ric Flair vs Carlito ~ ***
2) Bobby Lashley vs Vince, Shane, & Umaga ~ N/R
3) CM Punk vs Elijah Burke ~ ***3/4
4) Shawn Michaels vs Randy Orton ~ 1/2*
5) Hardys vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch ~ ***1/4
6) Edge vs Batista ~ **1/2
7) 2 out of 3 Falls - Chris Benoit vs MVP ~ **
8) John Cena vs Great Khali ~ *

----------
*One Night Stand*
1) Stretcher Match - Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam ~ **
2) Tables Match - CM Punk, Tommy Dreamer, & The Sandman vs New Breed ~ **
3) Ladder Match - Hardys vs World's Greatest Tag Team ~ ***3/4
4) Lumberjack Match - Kane vs Mark Henry ~ 1/4*
5) Bobby Lashley vs Vince McMahon ~ *3/4
6) Pudding Match - Melina Perez vs Candice Michelle ~ DUD
7) Steel Cage Match - Edge vs Batista ~ **1/2
8) Falls Count Anywhere Match - John Cena vs Great Khali ~ *

-----------
*Vengeance* _(same as Judgment Day)_
1) Hardys vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch ~ **3/4
2) Chavo Guerrero Jr vs Jimmy Wang Yang ~ ***
3) CM Punk vs Johnny Nitro ~ **
4) Umaga vs Santino Marella ~ DUD
5) MVP vs Ric Flair ~ **1/2
6) Deuce & Domino vs Sgt. Slaughter & Jimmy Snuka ~ DUD
7) Edge vs Batista ~ ***3/4
8) Melina Perez vs Candice Michelle ~ DUD
9) John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Booker T vs Mick Foley vs Bobby Lashley ~ ***

------------
*Great American Bash*
1) MVP vs Matt Hardy ~ **3/4
2) Cruiserweight 6 Way ~ **
3) Singapore Care on a Pole Match - Carlito Colon vs The Sandman ~ 1/4*
4) Melina Perez vs Candice Michelle ~ *
5) Umaga vs Jeff Hardy ~ ****
6) John Morrison vs CM Punk ~ *1/2
7) Bullrope Match - Randy Orton vs Dusty Rhodes ~ 3/4*
8) Great Khali vs Batista vs Kane ~ *
9) John Cena vs Bobby Lashley ~ ****

-----------
*Unforgiven* _(yep, same boat as JD & Vengeance. Oh I'm so reliable..)_
1) CM Punk vs Elijah Burke ~ **3/4
2) Matt Hardy & MVP vs Deuce & Domino ~ **1/2
3) No DQ Rules for Carlito - Triple H vs Carlito Colon ~ **
4) Candice Michelle vs Beth Phoenix ~ **
5) Great Khali vs Batista vs Rey Mysterio ~ *1/2
6) Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch vs Paul London & Brian Kendrick ~ ***1/4
7) John Cena vs Randy Orton ~ DUD
8) The Undertaker vs Mark Henry ~ N/A (I really can't remember where I had this match at)​
-----------
So certainly Backlash is the best of the bunch. GAB is a fun PPV with two GREAT matches on it. I liked NYR as a whole. Maybe I'm alone on it, but I felt it was a really complete wrestling event overall. Unforgiven is the worst based on memory granted it doesn't have as many DUDs as Vengeance. But, I really recall Unforgiven being so bush league. Only thing I really dug was the second tag team titles match. ONS was a total one match show. Ladder match was quite good and rather underrated/forgotten. Maybe you'll like it. I think I recall you saying you're not crazy about those kind of matches so maybe not. 

I'm not as crazy about 2007 as some other people have shown. It had it's fair share of matches that were worth seeing on PPV, but I know I'd take other years over it. Best PPV of the year was Royal Rumble, imo. If you own it then awesome. If not? Well, I suggest scoping it out and purchasing it too. Cena vs Umaga was the MOTY. Revolution's was a good first match. That should wet your appetite for it. Hope this helps.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Flair/HHH cage is awesome. **** I got it at.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> So TLC is about to come in an hour and the discussion will no doubt be taken over by talk about the PPV so before we're there, I'll drop this one fast.
> 
> *Taboo Tuesday 2005:*
> 
> ...


Opening match is such a fun tag. It's an underrated bout from the year.

btw, Austin didn't appear b/c he refused to job to Coach. Mark Henry was slated to return, destroy Austin, and have Coach get the pin. Austin wasn't for it so he split.

That show is the definition of main events saving it. You were more civil towards the show than I am. Especially on the Batista/Coach & Divas matches which were total DUDs.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Opening match is such a fun tag. It's an underrated bout from the year.
> 
> btw, Austin didn't appear b/c he refused to job to Coach. Mark Henry was slated to return, destroy Austin, and have Coach get the pin. Austin wasn't for it so he split.
> 
> That show is the definition of main events saving it. You were more civil towards the show than I am. Especially on the Batista/Coach & Divas matches which were total DUDs.


That's what I read too. I just don't get why Austin would make his ring return against COACH of all people. Still sucks that he never had that WM22 match with Hogan they wanted to have after the Homecoming tease. Would have been epic. But I guess politics got in the way of things Austin refusing to job and Hogan being his usual self.

And the reason I come across more 'civil' is because I don't have the DUD rating in my system. The lowest I go is zero and that's only saved for the worst of the worst like most one move matches. I only gave that handicap street fight *1/2 because I found parts of it funny. And the divas match gets a pass because Victoria, Mickie and TRISH all look awesome in it. 

I have to say something regarding your 07 ratings, though. Why is HBK/Orton from JD rated so low? If I'm not mistaken, it's only used to write off HBK because he had an injury at the time, right? How stupid to do it at a PPV!

And I'm really eager to watch the Batista/Edge matches with both as main eventers. All their Raw matches in 2004 were terrible and unmemorable (much like 99.9% of Batista's pre-main event work) but I guess as main eventers, they had more to bring to the table.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> That's what I read too. I just don't get why Austin would make his ring return against COACH of all people. Still sucks that he never had that WM22 match with Hogan they wanted to have after the Homecoming tease. Would have been epic. But I guess politics got in the way of things Austin refusing to job and Hogan being his usual self.
> 
> And the reason I come across more 'civil' is because I don't have the DUD rating in my system. The lowest I go is zero and that's only saved for the worst of the worst like most one move matches. I only gave that handicap street fight *1/2 because I found parts of it funny. And the divas match gets a pass because Victoria, Mickie and TRISH all look awesome in it.
> 
> ...


It would have been a squash too until Henry came in. Austin would have worked hard. That's the only reason I can piece together as to why he'd come back vs Coach.

Melina vs Ashley from WM 23 type matches? That's zero, DUD, worst of the worst type wrestling. If I rated divas matches on looks then every match involving Maria Kanellis would be pretty high. 

Yep. 4 1/2 minute match. Orton debuted the punt about 2 weeks before it. Shawn was "injured" kayfabe and legit so he was gonna leave. It was the match that jump started the Orton push. Purely a feud advancer. Same with Orton vs Cena from Unforgiven.

Vengeance was great. Other two, decent personified. They had a match on Smackdown following Vengeance that I think was pretty darn good too. iirc my favorite match from them was at NOC '08.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

nWo DVD doc was pretty cool. Could've been more detailed. Surprised it was only an hour long.

Also surprised it was on Netflix. Are the matches on the DVD worth buying it?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^^^ You should ask KingofKings/#PaulHeymanGuy/Best in the North Pole about the matches for *nWo: Revolution*, haha. 



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> It would have been a squash too until Henry came in. Austin would have worked hard. That's the only reason I can piece together as to why he'd come back vs Coach.
> 
> Melina vs Ashley from WM 23 type matches? That's zero, DUD, worst of the worst type wrestling. If I rated divas matches on looks then every match involving Maria Kanellis would be pretty high.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that makes sense. But he should have probably won since Coach didn't really use any rub, certainly not in the replacement match. And they could've used Henry after DAT kayfabe injury from the Crossface (ha!) elsewhere to get him heat.

And yeah, that's sort of it. But the battle royale was not rated based on purely looks since the action itself didn't exactly put me to sleep which is always a good thing. But you have to realize, a ** rating is still pretty low in my system. I'm usually generous when it comes to these so a ** is nothing to be proud of.

I know about the Orton/Cena UNF match. Just when it was about to get going, Cena quickly got himself DQed and shit was over. Sucks their LMS No Mercy match was canceled. I think that could've been a classic. Although I'm more than satisfied with the HHH replacement.

I'll definitely check them out in the future. Hell, Vengeance and the Benoit tribute show are my last stops in my current yearly journeys before I go back and start from 97 until 2002. So I should catch a couple of the 'Tista/Edge matches.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Cena's masterful selling of the leg after HBK worked on it for ten minutes is one of the highlights of the match IMO.


He worked on it for 2 minutes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, that makes sense. But he should have probably won since Coach didn't really use any rub, certainly not in the replacement match. And they could've used Henry after DAT kayfabe injury from the Crossface (ha!) elsewhere to get him heat.
> 
> And yeah, that's sort of it. But the battle royale was not rated based on purely looks since the action itself didn't exactly put me to sleep which is always a good thing. But you have to realize, a ** rating is still pretty low in my system. I'm usually generous when it comes to these so a ** is nothing to be proud of.
> 
> ...


idk. JR was gone for being sick so they played off that with Austin and a way to re-debut Henry. Looking back the plan does look random and disjointed.

Ah, I see. ** from me is a pretty basic rating. I classify it as decent. I could literally list all the ratings and what they imply when I give it, lmao.

Yep. Lame that it got cut short. I understand it, but that PPV wasn't nearly strong enough to afford a match like that. That's the problem. Orton vs Cena LMS was probably the match I was looking forward to the most that year. Cena got injured and no go. I got Orton as champ at the end of No Mercy. And an excellent match to come with it. So I was plenty happy. Besides, John-boy came back in January and all was right with the world.

Do so if you want. Like I said, the '07 series Vengeance was the best. But it is better to watch them all in order. Helps appreciate the urgency by Batista come the third bout. 

'97 - '02. Holy crap. Have fun. It's gonna be quite the journey. I'll wonder how you'll take to 2002. Such a wild year. Tried so many new things. It was sporadic with matches and feuds, but I really loved it. Minority answer. Oh well. You ever seen the original RAW Roulette show?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... that 6-man TLC... ****1/2 I give it first watch. Perhaps it's overshooting it a little bit, but it gets into my top 5 of the year no problem, and wow, I'm shocked at how fucking awesome the match was. May even be second best match just behind Punk/Bryan OTL. Definitely looking forward to giving it a second viewing. I may even stay up for the replay of the PPV just to watch the match again. Damn, I really loved it.

Other ratings for the night:

Rhode Scholars/Mysterio and Cara- ***1/4
Cesaro/Truth- (Need to re-watch as I wasn't really paying attention to the match)
Barrett/Kofi- ***
Shield/Ryback and Team Hell No- ****1/2

MizTV segment was good as well all around imo. Overall a great PPV so far.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Well, those saying that there would be no MOTYCs at TLC were wrong. Eleventy billion stars for the TLC 6 man.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

So Holy Shit....that TLC match ****1/2 

Oh my god that was absolute carnage and an absolute war. Everybody in that match looked amazing. Amazing finish, amazing spots, THAT TABLE SPOT :mark: :mark: :mark: 

WHAT A FUCKING MATCH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

People didn't think TLC was gonna be GREAT?

I'm not surprised in the slightest. LOOK WHO IS IN THE MATCH.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer I think I may have to eat my words with saying nothing will be MOTYC from TLC.

That 6 man was all kinds of awesome, and at this moment would comfortably sit in my top 5-10 matches of the year.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> People didn't think TLC was gonna be GREAT?
> 
> I'm not surprised in the slightest. LOOK WHO IS IN THE MATCH.


I think we all knew it was going to be great, but I expected WWE to fuck it up somehow, and they didn't. 

That was awesome....so so awesome


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

TLC match ****
I still have Cena vs Brock as MOTY apart from the ending that match told a great story with Brock dominating Cena. The match tonight was very good though all six men looked good, some great spots, great selling told a good story and it also sent three new guys right near the top of the card after that, perfectly booked from start to finish.

Great ppv so far nearly didn't watch it,


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Dare I say a better TLC 6 man than SS00 and WM17?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> I think we all knew it was going to be great, but I expected WWE to fuck it up somehow, and they didn't.
> 
> That was awesome....so so awesome


(Y)

I'm dying to see it more than I was already, after hearing the 100% awesome feedback.


----------



## AWR (Mar 26, 2011)

RR 2003 - Beniot/Angle *****


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> (Y)
> 
> I'm dying to see it more than I was already, after hearing the 100% awesome feedback.


Yer I definitely recommend it, I can't see anyone not enjoying it immensely (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm marking after reading a report on it. Can't wait to read the "Reigns got the pin. He's the star." posts that could flood the site in a bit.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I'm marking after reading a report on it. Can't wait to read the "Reigns got the pin. He's the star." posts that could flood the site in a bit.


Yer people will erupt with those posts, but it was obvious who was the star of the shield in the match that boy dean ambrose :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heard Rollins DIED. He's ok?

Ambrose :mark:


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Heard Rollins DIED. He's ok?
> 
> Ambrose :mark:


He looked to be hurt, He cracked the back of head pretty hard on a table during his last spot.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Heard Rollins DIED. He's ok?
> 
> Ambrose :mark:


Yer he pretty much died, he took a hellacious bump and smacked his head pretty hard on the way down. 

Ambrose is gonna be a star :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Loved all three main events.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

SO it's either between TLC and ER for my PPV of the year and Cena/Ziggler is definitely MOTYC for me. 

****1/2


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

TLC 6 man ****1/4

Ziggler V Cena ***1/2


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

TLC is the best booked PPV of the year, while ER is PPV of the year solely on how awesome the matches were.

ER had 2 of the top 5 MOTYC in the same PPV with Cena/Lesnar and Bryan/Sheamus, and another **** match in Punk/Jericho Street Fight.

TLC made stars out of people tonight, The Shield went over and looked amazing doing it and Ziggler went over in the main event as he should have.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TLC
-The bell toll for the shooting was nice.
-Mysterios/Awesome Facial Hair: This was all right. Things got fun near the end and that finish was WOW. I really want to see Mysterio v Sandow. Sandow planted him with a nasty ring post shot.
-US title: R-Truth taking head-rams into turnbuckles and shaking and yelling 'WOHHHH' to shake it off should be a signature spot.
-MizTV: I have no idea where I'd start talking about this, therefore I will not. So there.
-IC title: This is Barrett v Kofi, so I kinda went to get something to eat instead. Caught like forty seconds of it. I'll probably never, ever watch this.
-CM Punk promo: I liked that Punk was wearing a 'Knees 2 Faces' shirt. HEYMAN SAID 'FUHGETTABOUTIT'. 
-TLC: I didn't LOVE this, but it was mostly fun. Bryan getting enormous 'yes' reactions on entrance while Ryback popped like nobody was great. FCW Guys' strategy of wiping everybody out to work on Bryan was really good, and them working over Bryan didn't get dull or repetitive. I do think this would have benefited from having some time being taken off, and I didn't love the big obvious spots. I'd watch this again, though, which I can't say about THAT many WWE PPV matches this year. I'm looking forward to where things are going, and I hope Bryan becomes at least somewhat of a major player.
-Divas: I didn't really think this was that bad but I just don't care.
-WHC: Not the same as the other two, but pretty good. Show almost seemed to be on cruise control to me and things only got that good when they started hitting finishers. The PUNCH after the missed KICK was great. GIGANTIC CHAIR.
-McIntyre & Two Shitheads/THOSE GUYS: Bleh. The Miz is actually a more horrible babyface than he is a heel. I'm excited for the possibilities of face Del Rio since 2006 tecnico Dos Caras Jr is awesome.
-Cena/Ziggy: Cool match until Vickie/Aj got involved. AJ's turn wasn't surprising and I'm not excited for anything to come. Cena's AA attempt while picking up the ladder was really good. I had this ridiculous hope Mark Henry would be the one to screw Cena out of the win.

Good show, way better than I expected. Much better than the last two even I didn't like anything more than Show/Sheamus 1 or 2.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm guessing I'm one of the few that enjoyed Cena/Ziggler more than the 6 man tag.

TLC is definitely worth re-watching.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Luchadores/Scholars ~ ***1/4
Cesaro/Truth ~ **1/2
Kofi/Barrett ~ ***
Six man TLC ~ ****3/4
Eve/Naomi ~ didn't watch lol
Sheamus/Show ~ ***1/2
Six man tag ~ *****
Ziggler/Cena ~ ***1/2

(Y)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Torn on what my PPV of the year is between Extreme Rules and TLC, and I can't decide on my match of the year now after watching the TLC match. 

Rhodes Scholars vs. Mysterio/Cara (Tables) - ***1/4
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. R-Truth - **1/4
Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Wade Barrett - **3/4
The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC) - ****1/2
Eve (c) vs. Naomi - NA (didn't watch)
Big Show (c) vs. Sheamus (Chairs) - ***
The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & Brooklyn Brawler vs. 3MB - 1/2*
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (Ladder) - ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rhodes Scholars vs. Mysterio/Cara (Tables) - ***1/4
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. R-Truth - **1/2
Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Wade Barrett - ***
The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC) - ****1/2
Big Show (c) vs. Sheamus (Chairs) - **3/4
The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & Brooklyn Brawler vs. 3MB - *
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (Ladder) - ****

Shield/Ryback and Team Hell No... well I'm still waiting for the replay, and it probably won't come for another half hour. Watching Cesaro/Truth right now, the divas match I didn't and I'm not watching, and the 6-man tag was a bust. Ziggler/Cena was an excellent match and **** on first watch. Don't know if I'll stay up to catch the replay of Cena/Ziggler. AJ heel turn was just "whatever" to me. Ziggler winning was great though. Both the ladder and TLC match will make it on my top 10 list, with the TLC being number 2 MOTY if it holds up. Right now it looks like:

1) Punk vs. Bryan OTL 
2) Ambrose, Rollins and Reins vs. Ryback, Kane, and Bryan TLC
3) Punk vs. Jericho WM28
4) Bryan vs. Sheamus ER
5) Punk vs. Henry Raw 4/2/12
6) Punk vs. Cena Night of Champions
7) Undertaker vs. HHH WM28
8) Cena vs. Ziggler TLC
9) Lesnar vs. Cena ER
10) Punk vs. Jericho ER


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I personally don't think Ziggler/Cena was a ****+ match. The spots were really obvious such as the sleeper hold onto the ladder and then falling through the table. Or they were weak like the head scissors into the table in the corner. Doesn't help that the ending was kind of predictable. Good crowd though and some nice counters, Ziggler really shined. 

***1/2


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Really great ppv tonight, a lot like TLC last year so much fun and easy to sit down and watch.

*First take* 
*TLC 2012* 

Rhode Scholars vs Mysterio/Cara- *****
Cesaro vs Truth- ** 3/4*
Kingston vs Barrett- *****
The Shield vs Ryback & Team Hell NO- ***** 1/2*
Show vs Sheamus- **** 1/2*
6 man tag- ***
Cena vs Ziggler- **** 3/4*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, gonna re-watch 6 man TLC and Cena/Ziggler first thing in morning. Then I'll have my finalized ratings.

But holy shit, why TLC? Why make it so hard for me to chose not just MOTY but PPV of the year now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jesus guys, nothing but positivity coming out of the TLC reviews. Really looking forward to snagging the dvd now. Maybe it was a good thing Punk hurt his knee... rimo


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Does anyone think this would be out on Blu-ray? I would love to snag that..


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Does anyone think this would be out on Blu-ray? I would love to snag that..


Nah. It's a shame WWE doesn't release all their PPVs on Blu Ray but then again I don't think they would sell much. 

You know what it's a shame that in 2012 Blu Ray still hasn't become the standard. Will DVD ever be obsolete?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't believe so. If not for a while. DVD can still be priced well. Who has the money to fork over tons of cash for Blu-Ray discs in this economy as it is?

I'm fine with DVDs. The picture is still great. Blu-Ray has only proven it can look greater. I don't need PERFECT quality to see an excellent match. It won't make it any better.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Really sucks.. I enjoy matches so much more on Blu Ray on the big screen. I've been on Blu-Ray forums and they were talking about how they will be replaced in the next 5 years too, WWE needs to get with the program.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I watched a whole PPV in Blu-Ray. Did nothing for me. I said "wow, it's so clear" about 3 times. About it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've yet to see wrestling in HD. I should pick up a WWE DVD on Blu Ray but which one is worth the price? I won't get it in a store where I'm from so I'll have to order it online. So in addition to the high price of the Blu Ray, I gotta pay taxes on it. Not to mention, the conversion rate is 6 to 1 US. So yeah, in the end, it's really not wroth it.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Could torrent them but yeah, idk too each his own.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My god I got my money's worth out of that show.

Rhodes Scholars/Rey & Cara - ***1/4
Cesaro/Truth - **
Kofi/Barrett - **3/4
Shield vs Hell No/Ryback - ****1/2 (holy shit)
Show/Sheamus - ***
6 man tag - *1/2
Ziggler/Cena - ****1/4

That show blew my mind. That TLC match is my favorite match since MITB '11.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

People need to shut up about this being awesome until I've begun downloading it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Clark Griswold said:


> My god I got my money's worth out of that show.
> 
> Rhodes Scholars/Rey & Cara - ***1/4
> Cesaro/Truth - **
> ...


Kofi/Barrett at ***3/4?  Is that a typo? Good match though and I too am very happy about my choice to order the PPV. I wasn't going to but decided last minute to go for it since I've already ordered all the PPVs this year anyway to that point. May as well just go for this final one. Turns out it ended up being arguably the best of the year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> People need to shut up about this being awesome until I've begun downloading it.


Download it...QUICK~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> Download it...QUICK~!


Getting it NOW~!

:mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE on blu-ray is amazing. I love the perfect picture, makes me enjoy the show just a little bit more honestly. *SharkBoy*, just to give it a try order _The Best PPV Matches of 2009-2010_ or _2011_, or _RAW & Smackdown Best of 2011_. The enhanced picture, blu ray extras, and original inclusions make them all well worth the dough. If you wanna go the PPV route, stick with Extreme Rules 2011 or Wrestlemania 28.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Kofi/Barrett at ***3/4?  Is that a typo? Good match though and I too am very happy about my choice to order the PPV. I wasn't going to but decided last minute to go for it since I've already ordered all the PPVs this year anyway to that point. May as well just go for this final one. Turns out it ended up being arguably the best of the year.


:lmao:lmao:lmao Jesus that's supposed to be **3/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Brye & I know Kofi can only dream of getting a rating over ***. :hmm:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Yeah, Brye & I know Kofi can only dream of getting a rating over ***. :hmm:


With the exception of Orton/Kofi from '09 which I find myself giving ***1/2. There's an exception to every rule. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> With the exception of Orton/Kofi from '09 which I find myself giving ***1/2. There's an exception to every rule. :side:


There is a reason that is considered the best part of his career. I hate that I forgot to borrow TLC '09 from my brother.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Kofi's best opponent was Jericho, imo. NOC '08 & RAW 10/26/09 get a (Y) from me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton <3

Speaking of that guy, anybody else think he can potentially take the title off Show @ the Rumble ? I mean, if it's not Show vs Orton at the Rumble who else could it be ? Show-Miz ? Ew.

Another Orton topic ; what guys have had their BEST match with Orton ? Can't think of too many atm. There's Kofi.... I honestly think that's it.... His best matches are with guys like Takerm Foley,and Christian. Maybe I'm too high on Orton equaling greatness... HMMMMMM....

Downloading TLC at the moment. Tried staying away from spoilers but it fucking FAILED. List of matches I have to Re-watch for my MOTY project ;

- Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ER
- CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ER
- John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ER
- Punk-Bryan OTL
- Punk-Bryan-Kane NWO
- Ziggler-Sheamus NWO
- Punk-Bryan MITB
- Lesnar-HHH SS
- Punk-Cena NOC
- Sheamus-Show HIAC
- Shield-Ry/HELL NO TLC
- Punk-Henry RAW
- Bryan-Sheamus RAW

No MOTY contender for Orton in 2012  ?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow I didn't even notice Orton wasn't at TLC. Completely forgot about him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton is forgettable. I'd be fine if he went away forever. He used to be my favorite guy till I lost severe interest in 2011 :lmao

TLC finished. Going to watch atm. YES


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The World Title is a complete mystery to me right now. With Show/Sheamus seemingly over, idk who's in line for the next shot. Maybe we'll see a beat the clock tourney or somethin.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The World Title is a complete mystery to me right now. With Show/Sheamus seemingly over, idk who's in line for the next shot. Maybe we'll see a beat the clock tourney or somethin.


I'm expecting a Ziggler cash in pretty soon, even though I don't want one. I'm digging Big Show's reign as champ thus far, the guy deserves it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Alim said:


> I'm expecting a Ziggler cash in pretty soon, even though I don't want one. I'm digging Big Show's reign as champ thus far, the guy deserves it.


Yeah, totally agree. Been a hell of a monster this year, loved the heated segments with Sheamus. I think he can have a couple good Title matches with Orton or MAYBE Del Rio, but please god stay away from Miz.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Just rewatched Punk/Bryan from OTL. Definitely a top 10 match this year, maybe even top 5, but I'm going to have to give a number of other matches another watch first.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, totally agree. Been a hell of a monster this year, loved the heated segments with Sheamus. I think he can have a couple good Title matches with Orton or MAYBE Del Rio, but please god stay away from Miz.


Oh yeah... forgot that ADR just turned face. He'll probably be the next #1 contender, unfortunately. 

Orton/Show would be good.. except I want Randy to turn heel so I can give a shit about him again. He's also injured.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

downloaded TLC. about to watch soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*TLC randomness and thoughts and shit as I watch it while faking a back injury so I don't have to go to the "premiere" job club*

CODY'S MOUSTACHE

Sin Cara + Tables. Too early in the day to play a botch drinking game. Speaking of botches, King thinks this is a chairs match.

Fuck me at the commentary. Is BAD, but in a funny way. Cole especially is just coming up with really bad one liners to entertain himself.

THE ALL AMERICAN DREAM, DUSTY RHODES. The commentary is providing more botches than Cara. JBL can't pronounce Borat.

Sin Cara is making up for the lack of botches so far. Can't even do a flying head scissors.

Sin Cara's Moveset - Kick. Another kick. Kick again. Followed by a kick. Then a kick. With a couple of kicks here. Another kick there. Here a kick, there a kick, everywhere a kick kick. Old Sin Cara has no moves, e i e i o.

So this isn't elimination style. Shame. Cara goes through a table at least. Fun. He almost missed it too lol. This was ok. Sandow and Rhodes dominated most of it and then won.

Quite like the Sheild's style of promos. Reminds me of the old NWO ones.

Antonio Cesaro... one day he might get a good gimmick. And hopefully once he gets done with R-Trtuh maybe he can get a good PPV opponent. So Cesaro claims that R-Truth is all about making a highlight reel. Yet another thing Truth sucks at.

Poor Cesaro. Literally. He can't afford a mattress. Sleeps on the floor. Reminds me of TNA when the knockouts champion a few years back had a day job because she wasn't earning enough.

Commentators are definitely just entertaining themselves tonight. Quite entertaining.

Speaking of entertaining... wait no. This match isn't. Rest hold. 

I see why Kofi and Truth were put as a team. Not because they are both black (though I wouldn't put it past WWE if that was the actual reason), but because their wrestling styles are the same. Everything Truth does seems to involve jumping, spinning and kicking. And its all utter shite.

Cesaro wins.

Cesaro promo. USA SUCKS. IRAN #1. Not word for word, but it might as well be.

Miz TV. The most must change the channel talk show in history. Apparently Miz TV is unpredictable. One minute he's asking hard hitting questions, the next we are seeing a train wreck. I must only see out of one eye or something because its always a train wreck.

3MB - Where Drew McIntyre was sent to die.

3MB are better than Jay Z. Well at least I agree with something.

:lmao at them laughing at the Spanish Announce Team because they don't speak English .

RICARDO TO THE RESCUE. OH GOD... PLEASE DON'T TELL ME THIS IS GONNA ME DEL RIO'S FACE TURN :|.

Oh god I think it is. Well I guess turning him face can't make him any WORSE... can it? We'll see.

Miz doing what he does best: fuck all while other people do the work. I smell a 6 man.

6 man announced tonight. Told ya.

Team Hell No are gonna burn Shield down. Somewhere Nick Fury is laughing.

Wade Barrett promo. He has a beard since he returned. So he has like, charisma and shit. Why isn't he world champ yet? He deserves it because he has a beard and is English. Sandow deserves it because he has a beard and wears a bath robe. Beards = deserving champions.

Kofi Vs Barrett.

Barrett loses. LOL.

CM PUNK. He hurt his knee by going back first through a table. That's how WWE are explaining it. Seriously.

392 days of CM Punk as champ. Imagine if someone like Randy Orton held the belt for this long? Christ. I'd have to shoot myself. My name is Randy Orton. I am the apex predator of the WWE. I am your WWE champion. That x 392 days. I wonder if Orton will return with a character. He's been dull since 2010.

TLC match. People were talking about this all week like it was gonna be the main event. Uhhh... Cena isn't in it guys.

Ambrose has a bullet proof vest on. He's selling chops to the chest from Ryback. Really?

:lmao at Rollins. Sets himself up on a ladder making Ryback look like an idiot as he was going over to place him there... then the moment Ryback turns around to grab Ambrose to throw him into Rollins... he moves :lmao. Then notices what's going on and stands up again.

Poor Spannish Announcers. They get their table hijacked. I don't see Ricardo and Del Rio coming to help. Also, where are Kane and Bryan? I don't remember anything big happening to them that warrants their disappearance for like 5 minutes while Shield 3 on 1 Ryback.

Kane gets burried! Under a ton of really light stuff . Not a literal ton. Cos even a ton of light stuff is a ton. Like that old stupid "joke" question people used to ask you as kids. What's heavier; a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers? LOLOLOL fuck off twats.

Some pretty fucking SWEET spots through this match btw. And not the usual spot heavy shit for the hell of it. These 6 men are in a fucking FIGHT and a lot of the spots were more "random" that big elaborate spots. The barricade spot was just Reigns charging at Kane. The chokeslam through a chair was just a chair being in the right place. The curb stomp on the chair was Rollins taking advantage of the situation. The table spot with Ryback WAS elaberate, but in a good way. They've been doing it for weeks on TV, and it was the perfect way to eliminate Ryback from the match for a while. The table set up on the ropes was definitely the most elaborate and somewhat "done because it looks cool", and at least it actually looked cool. Double superplex was awesome.

Rollins table spot was stupid though.

FUCK YES. Shield get the win. Poor Bryan takes the pin, predicted that last week. At least it was a powerbomb from the ropes through a table, so he got pinned by something big.

Match was TREMENDOUS fun. Best TLC match I've seen in years. Without a doubt the best since the TLC PPV started. Made my top 10 MOTY list yesterday thinking nothing from TLC would break into it. This might be #10.

EVE. Had no idea there was a divas match on the show. Was probably announced and shit, but I don't care and... what the fuck? Naomi? Brodus' dancer? What? Oh ok, she won a divas battle royal on the pre-show. Still... Naomi? She was the best fucking choice? NAOMI? Eve is pretty awesome at least. Laughing and pointing and mocking Naomi's dancing. Eve can be pretty great with the character work. Was talking about her match with Layla where she won the title on WF yesterday. She was tremendous in that. King making a joke about being told to drop dead. A few weeks after he returns from nearly dying on live TV. Oh hey Eve won.

FUCK YES. SHEAMUS VS BIG SHOW TIME. If anyone can make the chairs stip work, its these two. Undertaker and Batista couldn't, but Batista kinda sucked and Undertaker was injured. And they did that utterly retarded bullshit finish that could have made a ***** match go to **.

Match was great... right up until the finish. Chairs matches continue to end in shitty ways. That giant chair was fucking stupid. I burst out laughing when I saw it. Absolutely retarded shit. Up until then this was great. Typical awesome brawling from them both. Thought the White Noise through the tables might have ended up, but glad it didn't because it would have been a flat finish. Looking bad I wish it did end that way. Kick into the WMD was well done once again. That should have ended it. Not that fucking John Cena cheesy style finish.

AJ :mark:. Am I her only fan left around these parts? 

Kinda hope AJ turns heel on Cena and joins Ziggler. Make her like Lita was with Edge; Super slutty. Though she doesn't really have the tits to pull off the slutty outfits. Hmmm... scratch that then.

3MB Vs Jiz, Del Boring and their tag partner... please be Ricardo, please be Ricardo, please be Ricardo. Its... the Brooklyn Brawler. Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you the worst team in history of things.

Brawler makes Jinder tap out. Jinder was built up as something of a threat to RYBACK a couple of months ago. Now he's tapping out to the Brooklyn Brawler.

Main event time, and oh look, Cena's in it. Screw the WHC main eventing, we gotta have CENA. Then again, with that ending, the chairs match didn't deserve to main event. God I hope Cena doesn't win.

When Cena set up the table, I was expecting some boring generic table spot. Then Ziggler locked in the sleeper, Cena tried to climb the ladder anyway and then ended up falling though the table. That was AWESOME. Oh man, if Cena had landed that FU with the ladder I would have marked the motherfuck out. Kinda stupid that he did it right after passing out from the sleeper, falling off a lader and going through a table, but hey, it was too awesome to really complain about .

The hurricanrana from Cena to Ziggler through a table was... terrible. And it was Ziggler that make it look bad. Cena actually executed it really well. Did better than Sin Cara's flying head scissors attempt in the opener . I hate the table in the corner spot anyway. I think Show got driven through a table on the corner on Raw last week (right?), and wow did it look bad. Show sold it like he was knocked the fuck out and it just looked retarded as fuck. The spot looks about as painful as a basic slam, yet because its a table spot people have to sell it like death. Falling through tables, being slammed through tables and shit normally is fine by me, but the corner one just looks horrible and megafake.

AJ :mark:. LOL at her doing Cena's moves. Didn't think they could be executed any worse . YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! SHE FUCKING TURNED ON CENA! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME! WANTED IT TO HAPPEN, DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD, BUT IT FUCKING DID. AND IT WAS AWESOME. She didn't join Ziggler, but she turned on Cena . Dolph wins! Dolph wins! Dolph wins!

So... Cena Vs AJ at the RR now? 

Match was ok. Some fun stuff early on, but the longer it went on the more it was just there tbh. Fun and very little more. AJ TURNED ON CENA :mark:.

So with Dolph retaining the MITB briefcase... does this make him the longest holder of it since EDGE the first time around? Bryan cashed in at the TLC PPV last year and that was the longest at the time since Edge, right? Honestly think he should keep it until after WM.

Overall, I had fun with this show. Opener was fun, not particularly GOOD, but fun. They got the shitty IC and US title defences out of the way, leading into the AWESOME TLC match, good Show/Sheamus match (aside from the finish) and the fun main event. I'll ignore the 3MB tag. Eve looked hot in her match so that was awesome. AJ TURNED ON CENA :mark:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Given all the talk about this TLC match, I'm downloading the show now. MOTYC? This I have to see lol. If the mass brawl that ended Raw along with all the love this thing is getting are anything to go by, I be expecting CARNAGE. I lol'd at the AJ turn on Cena though. Will probably check out that match too since its getting love as well. 

I have to say, I'm rather looking forward to the Slammy's tonight for some strange reason lol. Taker/HHH seems a lock for MOTY. If you look on twitter, which is where they're taking the votes from, it's killing every other match tbh. If that is the case then one of them is obviously going to have to turn up to accept. Having one or both of them on the show, even if just for a minute, would be rather darn cool.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

*The Shield vs Ryback & Team Hell No (WWE TLC)*
Yeah, this was great. It was worked pretty much perfectly, with Shield taking out Kane or Ryback in brutal fashion and using their experience in numbers (kayfabe wise, obviously) to eliminate them and go after Bryan. Everyone was great in this, and yeah, that means even Ryback. Bryan as an underdog just IS, and he is so over it's crazy, so the crowd naturally got behind him and the team. Bryan going crazy on all of them on the outside was , I fucking love Bryan, he's truly brilliant. Shield looked like a million bucks here, going in and fighting these guys in a brawl type of situation and coming out on top for the whole match. Made them look great and this has to get them over as tough bastards that need to be taken seriously. Great booking and brilliantly worked by everyone in the match. Really nice spots, but only one really 'big' spot that came from Rollins near the end, so it never felt like they were doing too much and all of the stuff was built to and set up really well. Great stuff. *****+*

Also, Cal's point about the spots not really being elaborate (bar a couple) is spot on. there's one point where Ryback just fucking launches himself into Reigns and they go into chairs and a table and a ladder all at once, looked like they legit didn't give a fuck and just wanted to hurt eachother.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH will show up long before Undertaker I think. He only shows up for special occasions like Raw 1000. He didn't show up the last time his match won MOTY.

NOT looking forward to the slammys. Show is usually horrible. Hope they don't throw in a random guest host for the hell of it either.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The 1st hour was lack luster bar the tag match and even that wasn't spectacular, with all the back stage segments/promos they had it really did feel like Raw.

The TLC match really made this show . Just sheer carnage with a hot crowd and some really innovative SPOTS~!. Made The Shield look like real stars imo , and not just your usual group of jobbers who lose the big match. That face Ambrose pulled made me lol , you can see his character come out in his in ring work and it makes him stand out from the other two. Bryan had one of the best reactions of the night just thunderous YES! chants when he was on offence. Speaking of thunderous chants I think this was easily the loudest GOLDBERG chants heard to date , although they were cheering for Ryback when it mattered. I liked how it seemed like they had a man advantage all the time even though it was equal numbers showing that its their cohesion as a unit gives them the advantage not just sheer numbers. Probably the best TLC match ever done at the TLC PPV.
*****+*

Cena/Ziggler was enjoyable but I felt their spots were underwhelming having followed the TLC. Also there wasn't much action at the start of the match and then it just went into the finishing stretch. I hope Ziggler doesn't get lumbered with AJ as thats the last thing he needs , glad to see him getting an ovation.

Nothing else really stood out. Sheamus/Show was easily the poorest match in their series and that chair was hilarious. And they really are over doing it with Miz TV . Every WWE program needs a Miz TV segment apparently. The show is definitely in the upper area of WWE PPV's this year due to the hot crowd and DAT TLC MATCH.


DAT GOAT bringing those PPV classics:
Bryan/Sheamus ****1/2
Bryan/Punk ****1/2
TLC ****+


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RANKING TEH TLC MATCHEROOONIES:

13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
11. DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 - **1/2
10. CM Punk Vs Alberto Del Rio Vs The Miz - TLC XII TLC 2011 - **1/2
09. John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 - ***
08. Bubba & Spike Vs Kane & Hurricane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 - ***1/4
07. CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009 - ***1/2
06. Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010 - ***1/2
05. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 01/04/2001 - ***3/4
04. Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
*03. The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012 - *****
02. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I SummerSlam 2000 - ****1/4
01. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001 - ****1/2


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Shield vs Hell No/Ryback - ****1/2 

Man this is one of the greatest matches i have ever seen.Great stuff.

Top 3 matches in 2012 :

1-Undertaker vs HHH - Wrestlemania 28 ****3/4
2-Lesnar vs Cena - ER ****1/2
3-Shield vs Hell No/Ryback - TLC ****1/2


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

What better, Shawn Michaels: My Journey or Shawn Michaels: Heartbreak and Triumph?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Can't go wrong with either. Great match listings for both, but I guess I'd give the edge to Heartbreak & Triumph because of the doc.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

"Shawn Michaels: From the Vault" is still the best (at least matchwise).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TLC match from last night holds up at ****1/2 on second viewing and second best match of the year. Fucking awesome brawl with awesome spots that set up nicely. Ryback through the announce table. Rollins through the 4 tables at the end (well... he only went through two unfortunately for him). The barricade spot was awesome. Ambrose's face off the suplex from Ryback to the ladder is GOAT worthy. :lmao The superplex off the table on the top rope to Bryan was sick. Ryback looked like a beast walking back to the ring right at the end, and it have the vibe that Ambrose and Reins needed to finish Bryan off right then and there or they'd get fucked up. Had me on the edge of my seat on both viewings. The Shield has a classic match as their debut... fuck, it makes me want to see more of them. And Ryback of course adds this match to his resume as his best match to date... and chances are it may be the best match of his career. Bryan adds another classic to his resume and this may be Kane's best match as well come to think of it. 

While I do think Punk/Bryan is the overall MOTY, this 6-man tag is probably the most fun match I've watched since... well... since... I'm not honestly sure. I'd have to think about it. Haven't really seen anyone say anything bad about the match either (although I'm sure there are those people out there).

I do want to re-watch the Cena/Ziggler ladder match tonight of tomorrow. Ended up falling asleep as Sheamus/Show was going on. Poor Sheamus/Show. That match suffers from poor placement. I just didn't find it that good following the TLC match, and I was too exhausted to give a damn after that. 

Ratings for TLC (matches up until and including the TLC match are second viewing, except Cesaro/Truth, and the rest of the matches I still have to give a proper re-watch)

Rhodes Scholars vs. Mysterio/Cara (Tables) - ***
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. R-Truth - **1/2
Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Wade Barrett - ***
The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC) - ****1/2
Big Show (c) vs. Sheamus (Chairs) - **3/4
The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & Brooklyn Brawler vs. 3MB - *
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (Ladder) - ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might as well throw out some stars too:

Rhodes Scholars vs. Mysterio/Cara (Tables) - **
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. R-Truth - -*
Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Wade Barrett - LOLNO. Like I was ever gonna watch this.
The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC) - ****
Big Show (c) vs. Sheamus (Chairs) - **3/4
The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & Brooklyn Brawler vs. 3MB - SKIPPED. 4 out of 6 are among my most hated guys on the roster, and another is the fucking Brooklyn Brawler. How the fuck was I supposed to even attempt to watch? :|
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (Ladder) - **3/4

My ratings may look low aside from the TLC match, but I did enjoy things more than the ratings would tell you.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Starz, because that's all that matters~!

Rhodes Scholars vs. Mysterio/Cara (Tables) - *1/2
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. R-Truth - DUD - come at me but Truth ruined this
Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Wade Barrett - *1/2
The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC) - ****1/4 added quarter a * for FUN.
Big Show (c) vs. Sheamus (Chairs) - ***1/4
The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & Brooklyn Brawler vs. 3MB - DUD
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (Ladder) - **1/2 - slow, plodding pace at times, ending was fun.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Alim said:


> I'm expecting a Ziggler cash in pretty soon, even though I don't want one. I'm digging Big Show's reign as champ thus far, the guy deserves it.


I don't want to see a Ziggler cash in anytime soon either. Actually, I'm probably one of the few people that isn't expecting a Ziggler cash in anytime soon. 

Agreed with show. Damn, his reign reminds me of Henry's last year. I mean, Henry's reign was more badass but let's not discredit Show. He was given the ball and he's damn sure running with it.

I really don't want to see ADR anywhere near the title picture this early in his face run. Build him up some more as a face and sell the crowd properly on his face run first.

I really don't know if this is the end of Show/Sheamus. I'd hate to think Sheamus would win it back at Rumble because Show has had one hell of a run thus far but at the same time who else is there for Show to feud with? The thing I like bout the Rumble is that the Rumble match takes away from the title scene and that's a good thing. Some up and coming star could be given a title shot while Sheamus could slip himself into the Rumble. They used the Royal Rumble PPV twice to give Ziggler at shot at the world titles. There's got to be some midcarder that's deserving of a spot in a title match. 

My dream opponent for show at this point in time would be Henry though. I wonder if he would be returning before?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope Ziggler keeps the briefcase until after WM. I hate that most fans seem to think he (and everyone else that wins) need to cash it in straight away. Pretty sure after TLC he's held on to it the longest since Edge the first time around. Keep it longer, keep building him and THEN cash in when the time is right. Knowing WWE, he'll cash in AT the MITB PPV... then the new winner of the MITB from that night will cash in on HIM and win :side:.

Midcarders who could have a title shot at the RR - Uhhh... Daniel Bryan. Kane. Triple threat? Lose the tag belts on TV to Rhodes Scholars and somehow start something with Show? Seriously, who the fuck else is there? Ryback? *shudders*

Henry should come back in the RR match and dominate. Not quite win though. Have the RR winner challenge the WWE champion after EC, and maybe make the WHC match a #1 contenders match and have Henry fucking MURDER 5 other guys inside the chamber.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No - ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena - **3/4

I was wrong when I said I doubt any matches at TLC will change my top ten of the year. The TLC was really good. However I'm not understanding the ****1/2+ and top 3 MOTY praise it's getting. To each their own.

Final list of the top 10 matches of the year:

1. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: Undertaker vs. Triple H_ - ****1/2
2. _Over the Limit 2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****1/2
3. _Night of Champions 2012: John Cena vs. CM Punk_ - ****1/4
4. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
5. _Extreme Rules 2012: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****1/4
6. _Extreme Rules 2012: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan_ - ****
7. _WWE RAW 4/2/12: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_ - ****
8. _WWE TLC 2012: The Shield vs. Ryback, Daniel Bryan and Kane_ - ****
9. _Wrestlemania XXVIII: John Cena vs. The Rock_ - ***3/4
10. _Money in the Bank 2012: Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4_


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Rhodes Scholars/Rey & Cara - ***
Cesaro/Truth - **
Kofi/Barrett - **1/2
Shield vs Hell No/Ryback - ****1/4
Show/Sheamus - ***
Pointless 6 man tag - *1/2
Ziggler/Cena - ***1/2

Best PPV since ER.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I see Slam Sports gave the TLC match a 10/10 (Was expecting that one) and the main event got a 10/10 (Was not expecting that one) Overall, the PPV scored a 10/10 with them.

Can't say that I'd disagree.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

TLC

1. Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio vs. Rhodes Scholars - ***
2. R-Truth vs. Antonio Cesaro - **1/2
3. Kofi Kingston vs. Wade Barrett - **
4. Team Hell No and Ryback vs. The Shield - ****1/4
5. Eve vs. Naomi - DUD
6. Big Show vs. Sheamus - ***
7. The Miz, Alberto Del Rio and Brooklyn Brawler vs. 3MB - *1/2
8. John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler - ****

Two **** matches makes a good PPV. The opening tag match was pretty entertaining as well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone has Meltzer's ratings on this? Not that I really ive a shit about his opinion but it's always nice to see what the 'pros' have to say.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Awesome PPV, really enjoyed it barring 3MB and Divas. That TLC was mental!

The Shield vs Team Hell No ****1/2
Ziggler vs Cena ***3/4


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Shield match was very entertaining and was by far the best on the card. The Ziggler match was about what I expected, nothing great. Ziggler tried his best. It was your average PPV, with one very good match on it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Rhodes Scholars vs. Rey and Cara - **3/4
Cesaro vs. Truth - Didn't watch
Kofi vs. Barrett - Didn't watch
6 Man TLC - **** 1/4
Eve vs. Naomi - Didn't watch
Show vs. Sheamus - *** 1/4
3MB vs. Miz/ADR/Brawler - Didn't watch
Cena vs. Ziggler - *** 1/4

What I did watch, was very fucking good. It seems as if I didn't miss out on much int erms of what I didn't watch, though. 


_*WWE Top Ten MOTY*

1. Over the Limit 2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - ****3/4
2. Extreme Rules 2012: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar - **** 1/2
3. Extreme Rules 2012: Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - **** 1/4
4. Extreme Rules 2012: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****1/4
5. Wrestlemania XXVIII: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****1/4
6. WWE TLC 2012: The Shield vs. Ryback, Daniel Bryan and Kane - **** 1/4
7. WWE Hell In A Cell 2012: Sheamus vs. The Big Show - ****
8. Wrestlemania XXVIII: Triple H vs. The Undertaker - ****
9. WWE RAW (First match): CM Punk vs. Mark Henry - ****
10. WWE RAW (Street Fight/FCA/No DQ/Can't Remember): Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - *** 3/4_

Extreme Rules may be one of the GOAT PPVs, coming to think of it, if you add in the FUN Orton/Kane match as well. Might give the whole PPV a rewatch.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Flicked on a stream just as Punk came on. Needless to say the PPV was pretty solid for the matches I saw. Hell even Drew McIntyre got a PPV appearance and didn't eat a pin.

The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC) - ****
Big Show (c) vs. Sheamus (Chairs) - ***1/4
The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & Brooklyn Brawler vs. 3MB - DUD
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (Ladder) - ***1/2

TLC match was (Y) and probably in my top 10 WWE matches. I'll have to rewatch stuff like Punk/Cena NOC and the Punk/Henry & Punk/Bryan tv matches to see exactly where it goes but still enjoyed it a lot more than I was expecting which was nice. Everyone impressed, Reigns' spear to Kane was pretty great and everything Ambrose does it golden. I might go see how all his matches from this year are rated b/c even if he hasn't done much everything has been good-great.


----------



## brian8448 (Jun 27, 2007)

Ziggler vs Cena was good, but not special at all to me. Just a good formula main event match, you could pretty much tell where they were going with each spot and the finish in general. A lot of people are just marking out for Ziggler as a cocky heel who flips around beating Cena.

The TLC on the other hand... greatest thing this company has done in months. Better than their recent spot matches in that almost everything didn't feel contrived or like we were just waiting between spots. This felt like TLC as a fight and not just a stuntman exhibition. So many moments made me mark out, hot crowd that got into the babyface comebacks, everyone was used perfectly... MATCH OF THE YEAR, 5 STARS


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Rhodes Scholares/Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - **3/4
Cesaro/Truth - *3/4
Kingston/Barrett - **1/2
Hell No & Ryback/The Shield - ****1/4
Eve/Naomi - 1/4
Show/Sheamus - ***
3MB/Del Rio, The Miz & BB - *1/2
Cena/Ziggler - ***3/4

Awesome PPV. The Shield vs Ryback/Hell No is one of the best matches this year. Awesome spots, awesome work, awesome everything. WWE made 3 stars right there.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Are Shield vs Ryback/Hell No and ME the only matches worth watching?


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Ether said:


> Are Shield vs Ryback/Hell No and ME the only matches worth watching?


The entire ppv is a lot of fun. 
Show/Sheamus was actually a good match ( finish was stupid...) but the crowd was exausted. It should have been before the tlc match
Cody's mustache chants. ADR face turn, naomi's ass. Good ppv


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

After reading the positive responses here, I went and checked out Ziggler/Cena and I only give it **1/2. Pretty boring for the most part and the only highlight that I cared about was Cena's hurricanrana. Don't care about AJ and her poor attempts at doing Cena's 5 moves of doom makes me want her fired even more. Seriously, she fucking SUCKS and the over the top amount of TV time they've given her is among many reasons I quit watching.

Am gonna check out the TLC that everyone here praises soon and maybe ShowMoose too. Interesting to hear Del Rio has turned face.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> After reading the positive responses here, I went and checked out Ziggler/Cena and I only give it **1/2. Pretty boring for the most part and the only highlight that I cared about was *Cena's hurricanrana*. Don't care about AJ and her poor attempts at doing Cena's 5 moves of doom makes me want her fired even more. Seriously, she fucking SUCKS and the over the top amount of TV time they've given her is among many reasons I quit watching.
> 
> Am gonna check out the TLC that everyone here praises soon and maybe ShowMoose too. Interesting to hear Del Rio has turned face.


:shocked:

Really?

:mark:

Gotta see this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SANTA GAME said:


> :shocked:
> 
> Really?
> 
> ...


Don't get too excited, Ziggler BOTCHES it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

FuckChristmas said:


> Don't get too excited, Ziggler BOTCHES it.


John Cena does a hurricanrana and Dolph botches it? FUCK DOLPH.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

To be fair it looked pretty sloppy on Cena's behalf as well. Kudos for giving it a go.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll reserve judgement until I see it but for now I'm blaming Dolph lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The corner table spot always looks a bit contrived unless it's a spear, anyway.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Cena did it just fine. He jumped fast and didn't need a big amount of help to flip over but the spot planned made it look a bit worse since Dolph went for the turnbuckle bump rather than flipping over like the move is normally done. I think it looked good, tbh. Seemingly even the Cena haters were surprised by it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I thought Cena's hurricarana sucked ass lol. I'm finished downloading the show, so I'm gonna re-watch ti now. 

Oh what you guys thought about the monkey flip?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There was a monkey flip?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Oh what you guys thought about the monkey flip?


Worst out of his three. The one at SVS last year in The Rock's return match was way better and so was the one in the steel cage match with Miz and Morrison.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Downloading TLC now. (Y)


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

*TLC STARZ~!*

*Rhodes Scholars vs Mysterio & Cara - ****
Really refreshing to see a match that isn't your typical formulaic tag match. WWE really need to throw more stipulations matches if they can't find ways to make tag matches interesting. Props to Sin Cara for bumping like a boss in this.

*The Shield vs Ryback & Team Hell No - ***1/2*
Not as big of a fan as everyone else is of this match, but this was super fun. Ambrose and Bryan stole the show with Ambrose's brilliant bumping and facial expressions and Bryan's spunky little comeback was also awesome. Just pure chaos.

*Big Show vs Sheamus - ****
These two can do no wrong together but I think their other matches together were better. I wish Sheamus would stop kicking out of the KO Punch and that giant chair spot was ...weird. 

*John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler - ****
A mixed bag but I mostly enjoyed this. The AJ stuff outside of the big swerve was awful and there was some awkward setting-up and obvious cooperation in some spots. However, I did love some moments like the opening matwork and that awesome spot where Cena deadlifting Ziggler and the ladder. I was pleased with what I got here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched the three Extreme Rules main events again for my MOTY list. Here was how the matches compared to my last viewing :

_Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan_ 

Last Watch : ***** 1/2*
This Watch : ***** 1/4*

_CM Punk vs Chris Jericho_

Last Watch : ***** 1/4*
This Watch : ******

_Brock Lesnar vs John Cena_

Last Watch : *******
This Watch : *******

This was the best PPV of the year BY FAR IMO , and these three matches were exactly the reason why. Sheamus vs Bryan was fucking amazing due to Danielson's awesome shoulder work and Sheamus's superior selling in a big match situation ; him and Punk will probably tear the house down with a few classics in 2013 or 2014. The 2/3 falls gimmick worked awesome with a ton of emphasis being placed on the first fall which I adored. Not as good as the four and a half I placed on it in September, but it's still an all time classic and Sheamus's best match in his career so far.

The Punk-Jericho match is REALLY hit or miss. I can understand somebody rating this anywhere from three and a quarter to four and a quarter depending on their taste for both guys and how they like the whole "spot-stop-spot-story" storytelling style they were going for here. Personally, I loved it and it's a damn near classic encounter, but it's not as god as their Wrestlemania match due to the work not being as good, and the story not being as subtle. If you factor crowd reaction into your ratings, this match would be MUCH higher than the WM XXVIII matchup btw, but personally I would find it on the low end of **** (probably *** 3/4 if I didn't love Phil so much ).

Cena vs Lesnar... WOW. What the fuck can I say about this match other than it's the most unique wrestling match we've seen over the last ... FOREVER. Seriously, the vibe that I got from this match was so intense and so contradictory to what the current product is about that it's insane, and ALOT of that can be attributed to the sheer intensity of Lesnar. The storytelling was out of this world ; Lesnar is UNSTOPPABLE , Cena is vulnerable, HOLY SHIT CENA IS GETTING DESTROYED. To those who rate this match lower because of the ending ; fuck you. The stiffness of the match mixed with the incredible character development that we saw, mixed with the immense storytelling and brutality makes this one of the best matches in WWE history IMO. 

Personally, it's the finest example of storytelling in a wrestling match in 15 years. 

*Updated RANKINGZ*

1. Lesnar-Cena (ER)
2. Punk-Jericho (WM)
3. Taker-HHH (WM)
4. Sheamus-Bryan (ER)
5. Punk-Jericho (ER)

Gonna rewatch the Punk-Bryan PPV matches next :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Shield's theme music. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE TLC: Tables, Ladders, & Chairs 2012​*
1) *Tables Match*
Rhodes Scholars _(Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow)_ vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara ~ *3/4


2) *WWE United States Championship*
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs R-Truth ~ *1/4


3) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Wade Barrett ~ **


4) *Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match*
Team Hell No _(Kane & Daniel Bryan)_ & Ryback vs The Shield _(Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, & Roman Reigns _~ ****1/2


5) *WWE Divas Championship*
Eve Torres(c) vs Naomi Night ~ DUD


6) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Chairs Match*
Big Show(c) vs Sheamus ~ **3/4


7) Mike Mizanin, Alberto Del Rio, & Brooklyn Brawler vs 3MB _(Heath Slater, Drew McIntyre, & Jinder Mahal)_ ~ 1/2*


8) *Ladder Match* - *World Heavyweight Championship Money in the Bank Briefcase*
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs John Cena ~ ***1/2​

~ Not PPV of the year, but one of the overall better show thanks to the pure entertainment it brought. I'd put it behind Extreme Rules, WrestleMania, & Money in the Bank. Yet to see Night of Champions, but right now TLC ranks at #4. (Y)

~ Opener was absolutely nothing special. Just there. I liked the steel steps spot & the finish. Rhodes Scholars are great. Luchadores brought nothing to the table. Not even Mysterio. Right team won. Great pop for the heels.

~ CESARO SWAG. Nothing special, but since it was a 6 1/2 minute showcase for my current favorite on the roster, I liked it. Truth stinks, got dominated, Neutralizer, done. Plus promo time for the champ. :hb

~ I liked the MizTV segment. It was goofy, but it had a purpose. Del Rio turned face by the looks of it and got a pop! I marked for that. I'm already down for Del Rio as a face. Been wanting it for far too long now. It's here. Lets see what's next.

~ Intercontinental championship was loads better than what I figured. Only problem is it had only two memorable points of the match. The slick into the ring jump & quick dive to the outside by Kofi & the nice Bull Hammer elbow transition into Trouble in Paradise. Other than that it was decent with nothing of note. Kept at a fast pace so I can understand why that appealed to more people. Wrong man went over here, but if it means the feud is continuing, well so be it. I still see Barrett winning the gold soon.

~ TLC match...wow. Simply put: I MARKED FOR ALL OF IT. I was kid in a candy store while watching. That's where the high rating comes from me. It was everything it needed to be. Had a great buzz surrounding the match too. All aspects were done so well. Everyone left smelling like a rose when it was all over. *Brye* made a point, whether jokingly or not, that he wanted this to come off like a ROH style brawl back in their glory days. Honestly, I think that is exactly what we got. So much fun. Too much fun almost, haha. I haven't marked for a match like this since, well only since July with Punker vs Danielson at MITB, BUT I can sufficiently that my excitement here went above and beyond. I want to have this feeling on every PPV. It's truly the reason why I watch. Blackout on the chair, Ambrose's facial expressions, & Rollins DYING at the end were all :mark: But, fuck me did Rollins die hard. As long as he's ok, then it's all good. So brutal. So awesome. So much fun.

~ Divas...appropriate filler. Naomi had some nice spots to show how athletic she can be. Unfortunately she got sloppy towards the end. You can tell she got gassed early. Maybe working the battle royal earlier in the night hurt her. Eve wins with one move. Only 3 minutes. Expected DUD, but didn't hurt anything.

~ World Championship was a disappointing bout. Granted, it was solid. Whoever said Show felt like he was on cruise control till the end was spot on. He didn't feel too invested in the whole match. I LOVED the finish with the gigantic chair. Both equal parts incredible & comical. Surreal :lmao Big Show win was one hell of a surprise. Didn't understand it either. Sheamus really can't beat Show? Ok then. I like Show, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't pulling big for a Sheamus win here. Always love the guy.

~ Another filler. Did nothing except for turn Del Rio & give 3MB some more showcasing. Brawler was...yeah. Mahal ate the loss. So I can't say I care. Heath Slater & Drew McIntyre OWN imo.

~ Really good main event. Nothing GREAT, but really good. I liked it. Ending wasn't a surprise. Glad she didn't join up with Dolph like so many on this site claimed. Isn't needed. Marked at the sleephold on the ladder ---> falling through the table spot. Was cool. While it was FAR from perfect, Cena busting out the snap hurricanrana to put Dolph through at table was legendary, haha. DOLPH WINS A WWE PPV MAIN EVENT. :mark: Safe to say I left this PPV with a big smile on my face.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Masks/Facial hair - **1/2
Cesaro/Truth - *1/2 
Barrett/Kofi - **
6-Man TLC - ****
Eve/Naomi - 1/2*
Show/Sheamus - ***
6-Man Bollocks - N/A was running low on time so skipped this. Probably wouldn't have paid attention regardless.
Cena/Ziggler - ***1/2

Probably have that TLC match as my 5th best of the year. I think the entire PPV suffered a little bit after that - the crowd was even more dead than usual for the divas because they were still reeling after that carnage. Couldn't get into either mid-card title matches because I simply didn't care - I knew Cesaro would retain and the I-C match...meh. I actually like both guys but they shouldn't be facing each other; it's like they're both in development hell just floundering around with no story. Except the WILDCAT thing. Part of me wants Cesaro to drop the U.S. belt (to a decent opponent though) just so he can move up a tier and have PPV matches with credible folk. 

Happy that AJ turned on Cena (one of the pops of the night :lol) but I don't think it'll lead to a heel turn. Just adds to her mental instability side and acts like Cena was rejecting her so gave him some payback. If she was going heel she'd have snogged Ziggler there and then. Still think heel Eve vs face AJ at Mania is nailed on.

Should I watch the pre-show? Because it looked like Naomi's tits were close to popping out :side:



sharkboy22 said:


> Anyone has Meltzer's ratings on this? Not that I really ive a shit about his opinion but it's always nice to see what the 'pros' have to say.


Knowing Meltzer he'd give it ****3/4 and say he docked a 1/4* because they didn't climb enough ladders.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

) Tables Match
Rhodes Scholars (Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow) vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara ~ ** 


2) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs R-Truth ~ ** 


3) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Wade Barrett ~ ** 1/2


4) Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match
Team Hell No (Kane & Daniel Bryan) & Ryback vs The Shield (Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, & Roman Reigns ~ ****1/2


5) WWE Divas Championship
Eve Torres(c) vs Naomi Night ~ DUD


6) World Heavyweight Championship - Chairs Match
Big Show(c) vs Sheamus ~ **3/4 - ***


7) Mike Mizanin, Alberto Del Rio, & Brooklyn Brawler vs 3MB (Heath Slater, Drew McIntyre, & Jinder Mahal) ~ 1/2*


8) Ladder Match - World Heavyweight Championship Money in the Bank Briefcase
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs John Cena ~ ***1/2 - *** 3/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> *WWE TLC: Tables, Ladders, & Chairs 2012​*
> 1) *Tables Match*
> Rhodes Scholars _(Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow)_ vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara ~ *3/4
> 
> ...


DOLPH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DOLPH


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hopefully he becomes world champ soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tonight plz.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

It's possible and would be GREAT. Don't understand the hate he gets.

Will I see you in the Raw discussion thread? DOLPH





 :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll join in on this. 

DOLPH


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> DOLPH


Before I went to bed last night, we had a conversation in this thread which may be fitting to continue now. You asked me about the original Raw Roulette and I have to ask when did that take place? And regarding how I'll react to 2002 after watching the whole Attitude Era before it, I think I'll enjoy it just fine. Specially since I can't unsee some of the torture that has been a large portion of this year. 

And once again, I have to ask you if you got that JBL segment I was going to upload for you. I always keep my promises so I wouldn't like to see this swept under the rug. If you missed the link when I repped it to ya, here is it again. Promo isn't as long as I remembered it being, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

DOLPH

I wanna know what Rollins was thinking trying to do that fame-asser on the chair. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

God, so much happened in that match I'm already forgetting most of it. What happened when he went for it?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Clark Griswold said:


> DOLPH
> 
> I wanna know what Rollins was thinking trying to do that fame-asser on the chair. :lmao


That was the Curb Stomp if I think I know what move you're referring to (the one on Beautiful Bryan right?).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> It's possible and would be GREAT. Don't understand the hate he gets.
> 
> Will I see you in the Raw discussion thread? DOLPH
> 
> ...


Probably not since I usually let RAW record and watch it about an hour or so later. I might pop in to drop a DOLPH comment. Risk being spoiled. 



The Reindeer Killer said:


> I'll join in on this.
> 
> DOLPH


DOLPH



Choke2Death said:


> Before I went to bed last night, we had a conversation in this thread which may be fitting to continue now. You asked me about the original Raw Roulette and I have to ask when did that take place? And regarding how I'll react to 2002 after watching the whole Attitude Era before it, I think I'll enjoy it just fine. Specially since I can't unsee some of the torture that has been a large portion of this year.
> 
> And once again, I have to ask you if you got that JBL segment I was going to upload for you. I always keep my promises so I wouldn't like to see this swept under the rug. If you missed the link when I repped it to ya, here is it again. Promo isn't as long as I remembered it being, though.


RAW 10/7/02. Wildly fun RAW with one HELL of a main event.

2002 is tons of fun. Lots of first time match ups were done that year. Roster was pretty stacked. What have you seen from it? Summerslam 2002 is one of the GOAT PPVs WWE has ever done.

Yep. I watched it yesterday as soon as I saw your rep with it. I didn't even know that was the promo where Joy was locked in JBL's limo. :lol I saw it all those years ago after all. Laughed hard at the plaque having "JBL" on it instead of his name. Quality stuff. Commentary was GOOD too. Hard to believe Taz & Cole actually worked and weren't terrible during one point.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH.

Watch it live. :mark:


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

So TLC was a good event huh?


I just copped NoC & MITB haven't seen either yet will probably check them out before the end of the week. 


So exciting also picked The Dark Knight Rises while I was out, haven't seen that either so I'm pretty fuckin' excited.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> God, so much happened in that match I'm already forgetting most of it. What happened when he went for it?


He jumped and pretty much sort of hit Bryan with the leg while slamming the majority of it off the back of the open chair.



Marty Vibe said:


> That was the Curb Stomp if I think I know what move you're referring to (the one on Beautiful Bryan right?).


Yep, that was it. He just looked like he almost broke his knee on it.










It actually looks sick though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> DOLPH
> 
> I wanna know what Rollins was thinking trying to do that fame-asser on the chair. :lmao


Nah. He hit it perfectly. It's called the Blackout. It's his finisher in NXT. A stomp to the head driving their face into the mat.

SETH ROLLINS IMO

Unless it was a completely different spot...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Should point out it wasn't a fameasser. Was his original NXT finisher which is basically a curb stomp in mid air. EDIT: HailSabin with the ninja like posting beating me to it. Didn't see that coming tbhayley.

As for the TLC 6 man, it feels like a top 10 match of the year. Would need to rewatch some stuff to see where I'd finally rank it. They worked it smarter and more violent which I liked and as Cal said the majority of the sports came off as opportunistic and not overly staged. Choreographed spots only become a major issue when there's multiple ones in a match and therefore the time spent to setup each spot takes away from the flow of the match. Both major bumps were timed well and the Rollins bump especially played perfectly into the finish.

Something regarding Ambrose's performance that no-one has mentioned. His facial expression whilst trapped in the No Lock was incredible. Looked like his face turned purple and you could visibly see the denial in his face that he would not give up. I also adored him breaking out the Necro Butcher bodyslam/chair combo as well as the lunatic bump off the Chokeslam through a chair. Holy jesus.

I appreciated them trying to make Ziggler/Cena more smarter and working it more as a showcase of Dolph countering Cena's attempts, but it still felt plodding and lacking in a proper pace. Also thought the inclusion of tables in particular seemed a bit random and felt closer to a TLC match than a Ladder match. Sheamus/Morrison was a far better 'smarter' ladder match with the workover and use of the ladder being more coherent and developing a story and Morrison's comebacks being superbly timed.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ROLLINS

I've listened to their theme about 100 times now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Nah. He hit it perfectly. It's called the Blackout. It's his finisher in NXT. A stomp to the head driving their face into the mat.
> 
> SETH ROLLINS IMO
> 
> Unless it was a completely different spot...


You're right, you're right. Just watched it again and I see what you mean. I've seen very little of his NXT stuff, didn't realize that was his finisher.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Sierra
Hotel
India
Echo
Lima
Delta

SHIELD


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh, yeah it was just the Blackout spot. I was like "wtf did he try a fameasser?!? Did I miss this???" Got it, now. Yeah, that was sick.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I also adored him breaking out the Necro Butcher bodyslam/chair combo as well as the lunatic bump off the Chokeslam through a chair. Holy jesus.


I fucking LOVED these spots, they were just bloody fucking awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Oh, yeah it was just the Blackout spot. I was like "wtf did he try a fameasser?!? Did I miss this???" Got it, now. Yeah, that was sick.


When I first caught it I thought he was channeling his inner BILLY GUNN. Watching it again it actually looks fucking nasty though. Was more focused on what I believed was his thigh smacking off the chair.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Not looking forward to a DOLPH world title run tbh. Still pretty meh on him despite recent character improvements. Think there is more they can do with Show and hope they keep it on him rather than give it to DOLPH. 

I'll check Raw out in the morning and plan to watch the TLC match sometime this week. Looking forward to it with all this hype.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Should point out it wasn't a fameasser. Was his original NXT finisher which is basically a curb stomp in mid air. EDIT: HailSabin with the ninja like posting beating me to it. Didn't see that coming tbhayley.
> 
> As for the TLC 6 man, it feels like a top 10 match of the year. Would need to rewatch some stuff to see where I'd finally rank it. They worked it smarter and more violent which I liked and as Cal said the majority of the sports came off as opportunistic and not overly staged. Choreographed spots only become a major issue when there's multiple ones in a match and therefore the time spent to setup each spot takes away from the flow of the match. Both major bumps were timed well and the Rollins bump especially played perfectly into the finish.
> 
> ...


Cat like speed and reflexes, my man. :hayley1

YES. Necro Butcher chair body slams ruled the world. I couldn't believe I saw that spot in a WWE ring.



Clark Griswold said:


> You're right, you're right. Just watched it again and I see what you mean. I've seen very little of his NXT stuff, didn't realize that was his finisher.


~!

Gif is so sick.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH is great.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dammit, Segunda beat me to it!

Ambrose was the best worker in that match imo. His facials, his mannerisms, everything about him was just...I don't know....awesome. I like how he does this psycho gimmick thing but he doesn't even try hard. It just comes off so naturally. He doesn't scream the place down during promos likes Foley yet when he talk you yet this psychotic vibe from him. 

Ambrose really is a unique talent. But still, Roman Reigns is the most awesome of them all


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Can't freaking wait for Raw tonight, DAT SHIELD :mark: :mark: :mark:

The Black Out spot on the chair was awesome, I cringed.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MR ASS

There were a few times when I literally yelled "OHHH!!!" or "OH SHIT" during the match last night.

Someone posted a gif of the Blackout in the Shield thread. It's fucking ridiculous :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> RAW 10/7/02. Wildly fun RAW with one HELL of a main event.
> 
> 2002 is tons of fun. Lots of first time match ups were done that year. Roster was pretty stacked. What have you seen from it? Summerslam 2002 is one of the GOAT PPVs WWE has ever done.
> 
> Yep. I watched it yesterday as soon as I saw your rep with it. I didn't even know that was the promo where Joy was locked in JBL's limo. :lol I saw it all those years ago after all. Laughed hard at the plaque having "JBL" on it instead of his name. Quality stuff. Commentary was GOOD too. Hard to believe Taz & Cole actually worked and weren't terrible during one point.


Can't wait to get there.

I've seen a lot of the best stuff from that year already. Some of WM18, most of SummerSlam, other "must see" matches like Brock/Taker HIAC and the No Mercy tag match as well as the first ever Elimination Chamber. But a lot of the rare match-ups like The Rock/Ric Flair, I've been saving for when I'm there. Roster looks STACKED to the fullest. The best of the Attitude Era (WWF), WCW (except Sting & Goldberg) and ECW all in one, plus the stars of the future (Orton, Batista & Cena) all debuted that year. Should be lots of awesome stuff.

And another funny part of that promo was that old man being the president of "F.A.G." (abbreviation for the Florida-whateverthefuck he was president of, lol). My favorite part of it is that shit about kids chanting his name at their breakfast tables, though. :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ROLLINS other finisher that he used on NXT about 2 weeks ago is pretty darn sick too. Don't know what its called though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Whilst we're bathing in the lovefest that is Dean Ambrose I should also point out my random loving of the way he just nuked Ryback with a flying chair during the beatdown in the entrance way which led to the Rollins bump. Dude really came off as reckless and lunatic in the best possible way. His little taunting to both Bryan and Ryback when he was hovering over them at points in the match was also nice stuff, really made him come across as something more evil than Rollins and Reigns. If they build to Rollins and his idealism in wanting to create justice vs Ambrose just enjoying carnage and doing whatever he can to create mayhem as the device which tears them apart then they could have a really great longterm babyface/heel rivalry.

Also I hope Bryan fans aren't bitching about his booking last night. Dude was booked far beyond than what he has been recently and him being the one to eat a beating whilst Kane and Ryback were down, only to fight back and show glimpses of an upset was inspired babyface booking that made him come off more as an unsung hero.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Still would've preferred Kane take the pin though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> Still would've preferred Kane take the pin though.


Ehh, I can appreciate that but it made Bryan look like a fighter going down at the very end and keeps him potentially involved in the angle. I'd sooner have that than him take the bump that took Kane out of the match until the finish.

Plus as much as Kane may be relevant historically, the fans are clearly more into Bryan so Shield having a pin over him may get them some extra heat, as well as giving Bryan a chance to potentially even the score down the line.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Can't wait to get there.
> 
> I've seen a lot of the best stuff from that year already. Some of WM18, most of SummerSlam, other "must see" matches like Brock/Taker HIAC and the No Mercy tag match as well as the first ever Elimination Chamber. But a lot of the rare match-ups like The Rock/Ric Flair, I've been saving for when I'm there. Roster looks STACKED to the fullest. The best of the Attitude Era (WWF), WCW (except Sting & Goldberg) and ECW all in one, plus the stars of the future (Orton, Batista & Cena) all debuted that year. Should be lots of awesome stuff.
> 
> And another funny part of that promo was that old man being the president of "F.A.G." (abbreviation for the Florida-whateverthefuck he was president of, lol). My favorite part of it is that shit about kids chanting his name at their breakfast tables, though. :lol


Yep. TONS of fun moment, imo. Cena's debut match vs Kurt Angle rules. Impossible not to root for the kid. I'm curious to see how you'll take to the random, but awesome, tag team pairings on the year. Booker T & Goldust FTW. Also Bubba Ray Dudley singles push for a bit. :mark:

F.A.G. :lmao



SANTA GAME said:


> ROLLINS other finisher that he used on NXT about 2 weeks ago is pretty darn sick too. Don't know what its called though.


Avada Kedavra? Was it a straight superkick to the face while the opponent was in a kneeling position? A bit behind on NXT atm.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Whilst we're bathing in the lovefest that is Dean Ambrose I should also point out my random loving of the way he just nuked Ryback with a flying chair during the beatdown in the entrance way which led to the Rollins bump. Dude really came off as reckless and lunatic in the best possible way. His little taunting to both Bryan and Ryback when he was hovering over them at points in the match was also nice stuff, really made him come across as something more evil than Rollins and Reigns. If they build to Rollins and his idealism in wanting to create justice vs Ambrose just enjoying carnage and doing whatever he can to create mayhem as the device which tears them apart then they could have a really great longterm babyface/heel rivalry.
> 
> Also I hope Bryan fans aren't bitching about his booking last night. Dude was booked far beyond than what he has been recently and him being the one to eat a beating whilst Kane and Ryback were down, only to fight back and show glimpses of an upset was inspired babyface booking that made him come off more as an unsung hero.


No way. Bryan looked GREAT. What a reaction to all of his offense too. If anyone is complaining..well they have no need. Simply put. The match let everyone single wrestler shine. Even in defeat for the faces.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah, Bryan put in his best performance since his matches with Punk.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RYBACK IN AN AWESOME MATCH ? DA FUCK ?

Seriously, I can't wait to catch RAW tonight, order the "Knees to Faces" T-Shirt, and watch that DAMN TLC PPV (only gonna watch the 3 main events, fuck everything else). You can talk about DOLPH all you want but.....

BEAUTIFUL BRYAN :mark: ... GOING TO WATCH PUNK-BRYAN FROM OTL NOW NOW NOW

YES! NO! YES! NO!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was I the only guy who liked Ryback's work in the match? I thought he pulled his weight around to make his moments stand out too. Marked HARD for when he tackled Reigns in the walkway into the chair/ladder stage setup. Kept the WILD elements in tact.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He was fine for powerhouse spots and saving his partners. He was wiped out and thankfully Danielson did the bulk of the babyface work, though. Ryback and Kane kinda felt like decent tasting sprinkles on a really good ice cream.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Ryback did really good, that double suplex on Ambrose and Rollins was pretty cool. Still not fully convinced the guy can go 15+ minutes in a one-on-one match but that's another debate for another day.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm fine with Bryan eating the pin despite my love for the guy. He was outnumbered and fell to the same move that has taken out Ryback numerous times. No shame in that. His comeback spots where he'd kick the living shit out of The Shield were incredible, and he had the crowd wrapped around his finger (or leg in this case).


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BRYAN


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BRYAN


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

ALVAREZ

(couldn't resist..)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BRYAN


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> He was fine for powerhouse spots and saving his partners. He was wiped out and thankfully Danielson did the bulk of the babyface work, though. Ryback and Kane kinda felt like decent tasting sprinkles on a really good ice cream.





Marty Vibe said:


> Ryback did really good, that double suplex on Ambrose and Rollins was pretty cool. Still not fully convinced the guy can go 15+ minutes in a one-on-one match but that's another debate for another day.


Agreed. (Y)

AMERICAN DRAGON.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Bryan getting the pin doesn't even matte. it was believable in every possible way and he didn't look weak at all./ No one looked weak actually. All 6 men came out looking strong. 

It's not about the wins and losses./ And realistically speaking, a guy Bryan's size is the obvious one to get his ass kicked but he took his ass whipping like a man and if anything, it'll get him even more over. That's what makes a good loser, taking his ass whipping like a man!

Austin/Bret is the greatest example of how to lose in style.Bret winning that match was a complete afterthought and I don't even think anyone cared. Austin went out like a hero. A badass. That's what mattered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It made Austin.

Although a win here made The Shield possibly. I've said it about 5 times today, but all 6 left that smelling like a rose. I'm putting this match over so much, haha.


----------



## Un0fficial (Aug 19, 2011)

SPOILER AJ WINS


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DA GOAT IS BACK ! DA GOAT IS BACK ! DA GOAT IS BACK !

OMFGMARKOUTZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :flair

GOATS GONNA GOAT :flair3

Best of All Time in da ring with the Best in the World .. JIZZ unk2

PS: Punk-Bryan OTL : ***** 3/4* , have literally nothing to add to this from my last watch. Just the best pure wrestling match (WWE wise) in a LONG, LONG fucking time. Currently second on my MOTY list with no implications of moving anytime soon

PSS: WHY ISN'T ANYBODY ELSE POSTING  ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Punk vs Bryan wasn't even one of the choices for MOTY on the Slammys. 8*D



Spoiler: RAW tonight



:lmao @ debuting Big E. Langston. First off, he sucks. Second, WHY PUT THE NXT CHAMPIONSHIP ON HIM IF HE'S GOING TO DEBUT RIGHT AFTER WINNING IT? Rollins losing it makes zero sense now.



I had to vent that out. RAW was garbage pardon 30 minute segment with Flair + awesome people, ECW legend return, The Shield in general, & CESARO getting more protective booking. I can't believe Great Khali & JTG had matches. Brodus Clay wins his first on TV in science knows how many months lmao.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got some ASS tonight. That's about it.

Never was upset at a Cena moment like I was tonight. CASH IN FUCK


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd be upset if I thought the Slammys were credible in the slightest degree (Cena won superstar of the year ; they are not).

What the fuck is WWE doing ? Langston-Cena feud ? It's looking more and more like Orton's taking the title at the Rumble or in the Chamber (so sayeth local advertisements) and I can definitely see a Langston-Ryback match (don't worry, it would be terrible) at Mania. Sheamus-Orton almost seems like a slam-dunk for me at Mania, unless they go w/ Henry-Show at the Rumble.

Honestly can't wait for the Rumble match, even though there's only 3 or 4 people who can realistically win it at this point.

PLUS ; HHH and TAKER will be obviously back after listening to H's promo :hhh YAY!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I skipped the Triple H part. 

:lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Got some ASS tonight. That's about it.
> 
> Never was upset at a Cena moment like I was tonight. CASH IN FUCK


hopefully he cashes in tomorrow


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Plz. He'll be out there with Show. Have Sheamus do another beatdown with the comical HUGE chair and boosh. 

New world champ = DOLPH.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YOU SKIPPED THE TRIPLE H PART ?



TRIPS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Undertaker. No interest.

_(yeah I heard he name dropped him but meh. I want an appearance)_


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ITS ALL ABOUT DOLPH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> ITS ALL ABOUT DOLPH.


+ CESARO & THE SHIELD

_(& PUNK)_


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

AGREED.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

IMO


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark: so much 

Henry to return tomorrow, as a face, beat Show up, and BOOM ZIGGLER CASH IN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry should just be neutral and destroy everyone. Dolph hid allowing him to cash in.

Perfect scenario.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Too perfect.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not expecting it...

which means it might happen. 

but I'm totally not expecting it..._(yeah)_


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

This has to be the most I've posted in the wrestling section in a long long time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

~!

Stick around. It's almost WRESTLEMANIA season. Always worth a discussion.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That is true. What's your predicted card?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've haven't thought much about it tbhayley. I guess I could say:

Cena vs Rock II
Punk vs Undertaker
Big Show vs Ryback

That's all I can try and guess for the time being. Only one I'm super sure on is Cena vs Rock II. Which is ugh even though it means Cena will probably win. Which I should be all for. Granted I'd rather not see another match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

How about Punk (c) vs Cena vs Rock?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never pondered that. I guess it's possible. Leading into Rumble Cena could get more involved. Then post Rumble he could interject himself into the situation and boom.

I wouldn't be crazy about it either, but it's not the longest longshot I've seen. Has solid ground right before WM to actually occur.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MIZARK TBH


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Never pondered that. I guess it's possible. Leading into Rumble Cena could get more involved. Then post Rumble he could interject himself into the situation and boom.
> 
> I wouldn't be crazy about it either, but it's not the longest longshot I've seen. Has solid ground right before WM to actually occur.


Could be a great match though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thanks to Punker & Cena. Don't have much faith in Rock other than to interject himself at various parts of the match to do some trademark moves.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Exactly what I meant. 

Maybe we'll get a swerve and have Rock vs Undertaker and Punk (c) vs Cena?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Would be quite the swerve. Wonder how many would rant about Cena vs Punk happening again even though it almost seems right to have their duke it out on the biggest stage possible. Although, I'd see Cena winning it 100%. If Punk is gonna lose the championship at WM, I'd prefer it to be Undertaker only.

Love John-boy, but he can get it post WrestleMania.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DAT NAITCH

:flair2

DAT HAITCH

:hhh

Yeah. I marked. Funny that I'm reviewing their match series as well. EVOLUTION


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Funny that those were the only two moments I enjoyed as well. DAT HAIRCUT.

THANK YOU HUNTER! *CLAP, CLAP, CLAPCLAPCLAP*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Was sort of expecting Trips but still marked when he came out. Never expected NAITCH though. He looks fucking old as hell and hearing him say he wants to die in the ring was a little odd but yeah :mark:. THANK YOU HUNTER chants were beyond awesome and unexpected. From Philly and all. DEM ECDUB FANS SHOWING RESPECT TO DA FUTURE OWNA OF WRASSLIN. Would have marked for Taker as well. Dude is a legit legend and I really hope we get Brock/Taker at Mania. Maybe that's what HHH was alluding to. Maybe he's going to ask Taker to get Brock for making him cut DAT HAIR.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH shows up for the first time in months. WWE Universe's reaction:

WE WANT TAKER!

:lmao

Show was terrible. One giant fucking MESS with so much random shit and most of the award winners were fucking terrible.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The show was a complete shambles. It felt horribly disjointed and came across really messy at parts. I got a really awkward vibe at times too. Felt a bit strange with the way they booked some segments.

The Taker chants made me lol but I don't think it was bad or anything. They got Trips and wanted Taker too, completely understandable. He also stopped talking and let them chant when he could have talked over them like he did for the thank you chants later on. DAT RESPECT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wont even bother watching the whole show. Only thing I care(d) about is NAITCH and DAT HAIRCUT!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well Taker hasn't shown up in even longer, and it's not like they were upset HHH was there - he got the pop of the night. Would love if H asked Taker to take out BROCK as revenge.

And yes, show was horrid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH asking Undertaker to fight Brock could be a cool way to set up the match. Also hilarious in a way.

HHH (crying): Undertaker, that big meany Bwock broked ma arm and beat me up and beat me at summerswam . BEAT HIM UP FOR ME PWEASE!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

undatakah BORK LAZER bwoked ma arm n den he bwoked it again n den he bwoked shawns arm n we cnt beated him will u plz come bak n beated him 4 us pwetty plz

Lol. I always loved the idea of Brock coming in and being the anti-Superstar so to speak. A guy who is just there to make money, doesn't care about the legacy of the wrestling business and all that etc. He wants to fuck shit up and get paid. He targets the face of the company and takes him out by beating Cena (yeah, they already failed there but I'll keep going anyways lol). HHH steps in as the management guy who tries to avenge his company and family honour blah blah. Brock destroys him too and continues going on a tear throughout the roster just fucking everybody up. HHH and Vince are then forced to call upon the Last Outlaw of the WWE, the backbone of the company, to come back and defeat the evil BORK LAZER and send him packing once and for all. That's how I would have written it. Shame we'll probably get a piece of shit feud instead lol but so long as BORK/TAKER have a match I don't care.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

No love for the boogeyman?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No he's absolutely dreadful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raging Eboue said:


> No love for the boogeyman?


No.

I'm gonna watch Vengeance 05 HIAC. Was gonna do it last night but got distracted. What by? I don't remember. Ah well.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Love that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Me too. Was in the mood to watch it again. Ended up putting in the HIAC DVD to watch it because I found that before the Vengeance DVD, so I might watch Orton/Undertaker right after. 2 of the best HIAC matches taking place in the same year :mark:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't remember a THING about Orton/Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its pretty fucking spectacular. WAY better than I remembered it being on last watch. Whole Orton/Undertaker series is tremendous, and definitely a series that should be watched in order due to some ongoing stories during the matches, callbacks etc. My review of the HIAC:



Spoiler: Orton/Undertaker HIAC



*The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton – Armageddon 18/12/2005*

This feud started on the road to WrestleMania, and gave us 3 tremendous PPV matches and one great TV match. Orton had used his own father to help him win matches. Orton had used the recently deceased Eddie Guerrero’s low rider to crash into The Undertaker and blow him up. Orton and his father had locked The Undertaker inside a casket and set it on fire. And The Undertaker kept coming back. Now, inside the devil’s playground, The Undertaker would get Randy Orton one on one truly for the first time in this long and awesome feud, as Bob Orton would be locked on the outside. So no Bob Orton, no low rider, and no casket to set on fire... how will Randy Orton survive THIS match?

Undertaker had been playing mind games with Orton during the build up to this match, and he had one final mind game to play before the match started; he made sure that it wasn’t a referee who shut the cell door and locking these two men inside... it was The Undertaker. He wanted Orton to know that he WANTED to be here, and there was no way out.

The Dead Man is dominant in the early going. Similar to Shawn Michaels in the first ever Hell in a Cell match, Orton tries to run away from The Undertaker, but ‘Taker doesn’t feel like taking his time like he did back in 1997, so he goes after Orton as quick as possible and proceeds to destroy him. Randy gets some offence in here and there, and reverses a few things, but only really out of desperation because Undertaker is just unstoppable right now.

You can tell just how personal this feud is when Undertaker pulls out a steel chair not too long into the match and brutally smashes it over Orton’s head... TWICE. The first time busts him open, and the second time just makes things worse. I’ve seen more Undertaker matches than I can remember, and it’s not often he is THIS destructive and dominant, and believe me, that’s really saying something.

Orton manages to get hold of a steel chain, but before he can use it The Undertaker takes it from him and begins to choke the life out of the Legend Killer, then long darts him into the cell. Fuck me this is brutal lol, and I must be a sick bastard because I am LOVING every second of it!

At one point, when Undertaker brings the steel steps into the mix, Orton manages to fight back for just a moment, and looks to make a comeback... until the Dead Man boots the steel steps back into the arm of Randy. Comeback... failed.

So what finally puts Orton in control of the match after taking such a beating? And RKO of course! Not a regular one though, instead it’s done with Undertaker’s neck being thrown down into the top rope instead of the mat, which may be worse, I don’t know. What I do know is that it creates enough of an opening for Randy to get his bearings back and make Undertaker pay for everything he has done up to this point.

Just as The Undertaker was a vicious monster while on the offence, Orton is the same. Steel steps, the steel chain, the cell, and a steel chair are all weapons that Orton utilises to payback the Dead Man and bust him open too.

But as vicious as Orton is being, it’s just not enough. After being blown up and set on fire, The Undertaker can not and WILL NOT be stopped it seems. One of my personal favourite HIAC spots comes when Undertaker stands Orton up against the cell wall, goes to the other side of the cell, takes a run up and jumps off the steel steps going knee first into Orton’s head! Spot looked awesome, and I can’t believe I never actually got to see it while watching the PPV live back in the day lol, as the damn satellite feed cut out for a few moments!

The greatness continues with Bob Orton managing to get involved, sticking his arm through the cell, but he ends up getting busted open and knocked down. Undertaker looks to maybe launch himself into Orton while he’s stood against the cell again, but Orton counters with a powerslam into the cell. Oh yeah!

Now the match begins to be a back and forth affair, as both men hit big moves to try and win, but are unable to. The Chokeslam doesn’t work for Undertaker, and a cross body through a table doesn’t work for Orton. Can anything put these men down? Well... the RKO and Tombstone haven’t really come into play yet, but neither man has been in a position to try for their big finishers yet.

The ref gets knocked out and busted open, just as Orton counters a Chokeslam into an RKO just like WM! The cell door is opened for another referee to come in, and who else decides to follow? Bob Orton, who also has The Undertaker’s Urn! After a massive Last Ride, Bob makes his presence felt by taking out the second referee, which results in him taking one hell of a beating from the Dead Man.

Going back to their WM and SS matches, at points in those matches Randy Orton tries to add the ultimate insult to injury by hitting a Tombstone on The Undertaker, but he was always unsuccessful. In the final battle between the two, the Legend Killer FINALLY hits it, believing that it will put an end to the Phenom! It doesn’t, and Undertaker just gets more pissed off, Tombstoning both Bob and Randy to win the match!

Fuck me, this was fantastic. I wasn’t sure what to expect from the casket match given the fact I had only seen it once when it aired live, but I had a good idea about this match having seen it not too long ago when I bought the Hell in a Cell DVD set. I really liked the match back then, but this time around I loved it. Might even make the top 5 HIAC matches list for me now. It was everything a HIAC match SHOULD be. It was brutal, vicious and violent, and it was the culmination of a near year long feud. Too many times now, the HIAC match isn’t even close to the last match in a feud, which is a shame because done right, the HIAC match can be the perfect way to end big feuds. It’s been proven in the past (hell, that’s pretty much why it was invented), and it was proven here. Epic stuff, and best match of their feud, something I wouldn’t have said before.

*Rating: ****1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My only problem with Orton/Taker is the dead crowd. Still they don't matter because the match RULZ~!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Five Second Review ; The Triumph and Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling*

This is a tale of two DVDs. If you were to break this review down into two discs, it would mean reviewing a disc comprised of a documentary, and a disc comprised of nothing but WCCW matches. Now, in principle this is a pretty damn good idea ; it allows WWE to pump out a long documentary with a ton of focus on what made WCCW tick and why it was so successful/what made it go out of business. There's a little problem with this structure that I'm going to address about this format that could have been easily corrected, but first I'm going to talk about the documentary.

This documentary is just... WOW. It's one of those documentaries that focuses a ton on the Von Erich family and the various shit they've been put through over the years, making it seem almost like a modern day A & E documentary at times. Fuck, it feels like I could sit down with my family and watch this documentary, something I can't say about any other one that has been produced by the WWE. Extremely personal to the Von Erichs, it still manages to bring a compelling side when addressing the various feuds , characters, angles, etc of the WCCW product. In this doc I was introduced to a TON of guys that I never even heard of before (because I never knew much about the Dallas wrestling scene, being a fucking Canadian), some interesting and some being WTF.

When it comes to their documentaries on various promotions, WWE always knocks these right out of the park (AWA, ECW directly come to mind), and this documentary is no exception. The interviews in here are fantastic, from the sympathetic look at Kevin Von Erich (who receives a ton of criticism about this, undeserved in my opinion) , to the brutal honesty of Micheal Hayes, Buddy Roberts, and Jimmy Garvin (boy has he gotten FAT) about the product, feuds, and the family in general. I don't like giving too much away here in a short review, but I'd definitely recommend this documentary to any wrestling fans out there. Doesn't rival the likes of "Rise and Fall of ECW" but it ranks up there with the AWA doc in terms of how good it is.

*Documentary Rating : 7.75/10*

I don't even need to talk about the second disc of matches, let me just show you my own personal ratings for them, and let you decide :

Duke Keomuka vs Ricky Starr (2/3 Falls Match) : *** ¼*

King Kong Bundy vs Fritz Von Erich (Retirement Show) : ****

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Eric (Steel Cage ; Christmas 1982) : **** ¾*

The Fabulous Freebirds vs Iceman Parsons/Kevin & Kerry Von Erich (1983) : *** ½*

Iceman Parsons vs Buddy Roberts (Star Wars 1983) : ** ¼*

The Fabulous Freebirds vs The Von Erich’s (1984) : ***

Jimmy Garvin & Precious vs Chris Adams & Sunshine (1984) : *½ **

Kamala vs Kabuki (1984) : *DUD*

The Midnight Express vs The Fantastics (1985) : ****

Chris Adams vs Kevin Von Erich (1985) : *** ¾*

The Missing Link & Bruiser Brody vs One Man Gang & Rick Rude (1986) : ** ½*

Abdullah the Butcher vs Bruiser Brody (cage ; 1986) : ** 1/2*

Completely un-fucking acceptable for a match listing in this era. If these were the matches that would best represent what WCCW was all about, I'm GLAD they went out of fucking business (kidding). For all of this talk about how great Bill Dundee is, or how awesome Gino Hernandez was, WHY THE FUCK WOULDN'T YOU FEATURE THEM IN A GOD DAMNED MATCH. Instead we get an almost half an hour long contest between two people that weren't mentioned in the documentary for a single second, and the likes of "The Missing Link". WHAT IS THIS SHIT ? There were TWELVE matches on this one disc, with ONE of them being a great match.

I did the math, and that's a fucking NINETY TWO percent FAIL rate. The only match on this disc that's worth owning is the awesome Von Erich-Flair Cage match, which you can own on the "Greatest Cage Matches" set. This disc was more than likely a disgrace to all those who were ever involved in the company that was World Class Championship Wrestling, and to say that this was one of the hardest discs I've ever had to sit through would be a HUGE understatement, as I had more fun with some discs on the "you know what" DVD than on this one. 

Where the hell is the variety ? It seems like every single match takes place at a "Star Wars" or a "David Von Erich Memorial" show, most of them being really shitty matches. Kamala vs The Great Kabuki? Did we REALLY need to see that horrible, horrible match ? How about Bruiser Brody vs Abdullah the Butcher (WHICH WAS ACTUALLY RELEASED AGAIN WTF) ? DID WE REALLY NEED TO SEE THAT ? My blood pressure is rising just thinking about it actually. Seems like over half of these matches feature an overaged , out of shape Fritz Von Erich in them, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE WANNA SEE AS WRESTLING FANS, RIGHT ?

Again, if you need to ask me ANYTHING about an individual match and why I rated it what I did, just ask me and I'll give a pretty good response, but this DVDs second disc FAILS and FAILS hard. This second disc was PUTRID, it was fucking NWO STANDARDS ! Ugh I felt dirty just saying that. Anyways, download the documentary, and pick up the DVD if you can buy it for really cheap like I did. Stay the fuck away from the second disc besides the awesome Flair-Von Erich cage match, and............You know what ? Download the entire first disc (w/extras) if you can find it out there, and but the "Cage Matches" set. You'll get the only match worth owning on this set that way without having to see the rest of this filth. Fantastic documentary keeps this away from "Epic fail" territory, but the second disc would literally be a 1.5/10 in my books. 

*4.75/10*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love the doc, hate the matches. I was honestly never a fan of the Von Erics of the Freebirds UNTIL I got the DVDVR Texas set. Only watched the first disc and I'm practically in love with them . With the great shit available to them, how the fuck did WWE fuck this shit up? FUCK.

You should totally get the Heroes of World Class DVD. Independent made documentary done BEFORE WWE bought the library, so we get footage and shit still. Its really good, and goes hand in hand with the WWE one. You get stuff in the WWE one that isn't in the Heroes one and vice versa. Can probably pick it up cheap too, I got it for like £3 on Amazon last year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FuckChristmas said:


> HHH shows up for the first time in months. WWE Universe's reaction:
> 
> WE WANT TAKER!
> 
> :lmao


lol, thought the same thing. Place would've went ape shit if Taker had shown up like on Raw 1000. Such a shame he wasn't there. 

Raw last night was awful. Between the show itself, the fact Punk/Bryan OTL wasn't even a fucking nomination and Rock/Cena and Sheamus/Show were, and then the fact Cena won WOTY over Punk were all just fucking retarded. Thank god Flair returned, we had a great Punk rant promo and we got The New Age Outlaws or else this show would've been all around disastrous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was fine with Show/Sheamus being nominated. In fact I was rather pleased that it got enough recognition to even be nominated. Sucks that the ACTUAL MOTY wasn't nominated and Cena/Rock shitfest was, but whatever. Its WWE, I expect nothing less from them .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MISSING LINK


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I'm completely cool with HHH/Taker being remembered as the MOTY amongst the casuals TBH. As long as it means Rock-Cena not being slobbed all over by the WWE brass, anything can be MOTY in their eyes honestly.

Just wait until they do their top 25 list and Rock/Cena is top five :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one who didn't hate that match? Sure, it's not top 5 or even top 10, but it wasn't dreadful. It was basically this generation's Rock/Hogan.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Rock/Cena wasn't dreadful but it wasn't worth waiting 3hrs to see. Jericho/Punk, HHH/Taker were much better matches. It just lacked....it wasn't even as electric as Rock/Hogan


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Am I the only one who didn't hate that match? Sure, it's not top 5 or even top 10, but it wasn't dreadful. It was basically this generation's Rock/Hogan.


Was absolutely dreadful. Only this generations Rock/Hogan in that it was a big star from the past facing current big star. Quality wise they don't even compare.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Am I the only one who didn't hate that match? Sure, it's not top 5 or even top 10, but it wasn't dreadful. It was basically this generation's Rock/Hogan.


Was absolutely dreadful. Only this generations Rock/Hogan in that it was a big star from the past facing current big star. Quality wise they don't even compare.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I thought Rock/Cena was good, but nowhere near enough to be a MOTYC. Sheamus/Show was great, and I can understand that more, but I still think there were several matches that should've been above it.

I don't mind Taker/HHH winning as if casuals love to see dramatic storytelling in a match more than anything else, it was the best match in that category and as such I can understand it being voted for as MOTY. I could've understood Lesnar/Cena winning for the brutality it had. Keep in mind I don't have either match in my top 5, but I can understand the elements that made those matches great being the best in those elements of the year. I just can't believe that Punk/Bryan wasn't at least nominated. And yes, I'm .

Then again, as said, it's WWE, so I shouldn't be too surprised.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't hate Rock/Cena and it wasn't really BAD, but I'll probably never bother to watch it ever again for as long as I have a pulse. Went wayyyyy too long.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't hate Rock/Cena and it wasn't really BAD, but I'll probably never bother to watch it ever again for as long as I have a pulse. Went wayyyyy too long.


My exact feelings. Wasn't a bad match but I have no interest whatsoever in watching it again.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Bryan wasn't nominated, imo, because as fantastic as it was, it's just a standalone match. The feud going in was shit and completely forgettable therefore the vast majority of people who don't post on wrestling boards and wet their pants over DAT WORKRATE tend to forget about it. That's what separates a true classic from just a really really good match to me. It needs to have those intangibles surrounding it. I'm speaking in general terms here but everybody will remember where they were and how they felt during Rock/Cena and when Rock won but nobody will remember where they were and how they felt during Punk/Bryan and when Punk won outside of a select few people. That's the difference. 5 years down the line, hardly anybody is going to be talking about Punk/Bryan outside of this forum most likely whereas a shit ton of fans will be talking about Rock beating Cena at Wrestlemania 28. That's just the way it is no matter what way you try and spin it.

Besides, its all fake 8*D


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IT'S STILL REAL TO ME DAMNIT !


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's still real to most Punk marks to be fair 8*D


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Glad Taker/HHH won as that was my #1 moty with #2 being Lesnar/Cena. I thought Rock/Cena was very good but definitely the 3rd best match of the 3 that night, that and the awful build towards it makes me cringe at the thought of a rematch.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

A Cena heel turn would make Rock/Cena II bearable


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Alim said:


> A Cena heel turn would make Rock/Cena II bearable


100% agreed. If they tease it throughout the feud and then Cena finally snaps in the match, throws his good guy persona out the window and uses dirty tactics to win and beat Rock to a pulp thus turning heel, that would be perfect. I'd be more than happy to sit through Rock/Cena II if that was the end game.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock/Cena II would not excite me in the slightest, only if it was career vs career or something :cena2

MEH.... As long as Punk, Trips, and Lesnar get some suitable matches I could care less about what happens TBH.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Alim said:


> A Cena heel turn would make Rock/Cena II bearable


I was looking for a heel turn at wm this year and the night after on raw based on the final moments of their match. While i was excited for Lesnar's return i knew it meant no heel turn yet, i thought they would build up Cena's downward spiral leading to a heel turn against Punk during the summer but that didn't happen either. The only interest i'd have in a rematch is if Cena turned before wm.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena should NOT turn heel at the moment, who the fuck would be the top face of the company then? 

Ryback? FUCK THAT.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

For some reason I don't see Trips wrestling w/short hair


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HIS WRESTLING ABILITY IS IN HIS HAIR!!!

He must have been wearing a wig throughout his career...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He will , he won't wanna miss DAT Wrestlemania payday.

Seriously, Jericho came out and said that he made 500,000 for WM X8. Imagine what Trips would make in 2012 as one of the biggest stars in the company ? He's missed ONE Wrestlemania over the past 16 years, and that's because he couldn't physically compete at XXIII. He'll be in a big time match W/ Punk or Lesnar (can't see ANYBODY else) , mark my words.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guest ref for Undertaker/Lesnar. You heard it here first!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker buzzed his head too so MAYBE IT'S JUST THE THING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE FUCKING OLD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guest ref for Undertaker/Lesnar. You heard it here first!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> For some reason I don't see Trips wrestling w/short hair


I'm starting to have my doubts too you know. I don't know why, just a feeling I guess. He won't wrestle just for the pay day though, this is HAITCH not NAITCH. He's going to own the whole damn company pretty soon. I doubt a Mania pay day would mean anything to him.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

HHH new haircut makes him look alot older, also i found it funny that the crowd went crazy when he said that it wasn't the last time they'd see Taker. Makes me think he's gonna be on Taker's side if Taker goes against Lesnar, causer HHH/Lesnar can never ever happen again, EVER.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*TLC*

Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara v Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow
-- Pretty good opener. I hate that stupid armdrag Sin Cara does but he wasn't bad in this and actually sold his leg well. Haven't seen a tornado tag in the 'E in a long time so this had an element of freshness to it. The finish was great.

Antonio Cesaro v R-Truth
-- What the fuck were the commentators talking about? Truth shaking off head-rams to the turnbuckles like a crazy person was fun. I guess this was decent? I don't really know. Couldn't focus. 

Kofi Kingston v Wade Barrett
-- Don't care about either guy and I swear they've wrestled each other like a million times so I had no interest in this but it was better than I expected. Kofi diving back into the ring and immediately following it up with a suicide dive back to the outside was a nice show of athleticism and a cool sequence. Barrett hit a gnarly backbreaker at one point. Fine match.

Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback v The Shield
-- WOW! This was awesome. Like majorly awesome. I'm trying to remember all the things I liked about it but I know I'm forgetting some because of how much awesomeness happened. The teamwork and character work from The Shield raised this to a level above almost all WWE spotfests. Ambrose was the king of the planet here. Seriously, he looked like a complete star. His facial after the double suplex onto the ladder by Ryback was one of the greatest things I've ever seen. Speaking of Ryback, he came out of this looking great as well. Bryan's shine segment was great. The way The Shield took out and BURIED Kane was great. Loved the chaotic feel to it. I wouldn't hesitate to call this a borderline classic. It truly stood out as chaotic and violent within the realm of WWE. 

Eve v Naomi
-- Nothing match to give the crowd a breather after TLC. Naomi tried to do some stuff. Eve is great.

Big Show v Sheamus
-- The weakest of their PPV matches but still solid. Show kicking the chair out of Sheamus' hand and the ring the first time he tried to introduce it was neat. I also like the short knee strike Show's been using. The nearfalls were good as has been the case throughout their series. Match was a tad plodding at times and didn't hit the heights their previous finishing stretches did so yeah, it's a notch below HiaC and SSeries but good nonetheless. 

Alberto Del Rio, The Miz & Brooklyn Brawler v 3MB
-- Skipped it. Del Rio's a face now? I'll give that a chance I guess.

Dolph Ziggler v John Cena
-- Really good main event. They worked a smarter, less spot-based ladder match and it was great for the most part, then they seemed to kind of stall until the Vickie/AJ interference and that killed a lot of the momentum they had built up. Hated Cena setting up a table instead of trying to climb a ladder after hitting Dolph with the steel steps early on. Made no sense whatsover and King alluded to that on commentary. Sleeper hold table spot was fairly obvious but still a good spot to use. Cena lifting the ladder with Dolph on it was a dope visual and Cena's rana, despite not coming off perfectly, was cool to see. Marked out a bit for AJ turning on Cena + Ziggler's superkick. All in all I thought this was really good but certain elements kept it from being GREAT. The good certainly outweighed the bad for me though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker buzzed his head too so MAYBE IT'S JUST THE THING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE FUCKING OLD.

edit just saw your white text :lmao FUCK OFF

edit2 I seem to be saying that to you quite frequently.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Cena should NOT turn heel at the moment, who the fuck would be the top face of the company then?
> 
> Ryback? FUCK THAT.


FELLA might be willing to step it up even more. I can see Sheamus and Ryback switching spots in the WWE Title and World Title scenes next year too, especially if Ryback wins the Royal Rumble Match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker's worth it and he knows it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Clique said:


> FELLA might be willing to step it up even more. I can see Sheamus and Ryback switching spots in the WWE Title and World Title scenes next year too, especially if Ryback wins the Royal Rumble Match.


With his failed wwe title shots I definitely see ryback winning the rumble next year, he needs to win a world title.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I hope if they do Punk-Cena again in the future that they focus on the fact that Cena has never beaten Punk on a HUGE stage, and how Punk has Cena's number. They could do almost a Tommy Dreamer-Raven thing where Punk keeps winning and winning and winning until finally he gets his come uppance as Cena has the last laugh. Plus, I feel that they need to have this match on PPV atleast once per year due to the sheer awesomeness that they have as chemistry. 

My guess is that Orton goes heel soon while Cena stays face. Also guessing that Punk gets another run as a face after Heyman leaves (whenever that would be) and probably a match with Lesnar. Punk-Sheamus for the WWE championship could be a big time 3-4 month feud if they did it the right way.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Taker buzzed his head too so MAYBE IT'S JUST THE THING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE FUCKING OLD.
> 
> edit just saw your white text :lmao FUCK OFF
> 
> edit2 I seem to be saying that to you quite frequently.




So watched HHH/Batista HIAC earlier. Wasn't feeling it. Also wasn't giving it my full attention though. Re-watch required.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I hope when Hell No breaks up that Bryan gets a lengthy high profile singles feud with a worthy opponent. Ambrose plz.

edit really? I thought you said you loved it


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> For some reason I don't see Trips wrestling w/short hair


If that's the case I'll personally fly to Mania this year and shave his head the night before :side:

Nice to see Ambrose getting more and more praise for his work in particular in the TLC war. Really glad that he's become yet another worker who's proven this myth that indy wrestlers getting called up to WWE isn't something that will kill their ability to work good matches and put on great performances.

Also in keeping with the Christmas JOY~! around here, I'll probably start watching the remaining Rockers/Brainbusters series Cal gave links to tomorrow since I've finished my series and the '89 matches I watched a couple of months back between them was excellent and made me want to see everything they'd ever done together.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh, not you, too, WOOLCOCK. I expect it from Cal, but not from you. 

I'll get started on my HBK/Taker series this weekend, and have it wrapped up shortly thereafter.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Looking forward to your thoughts on their series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> I hope when Hell No breaks up that Bryan gets a lengthy high profile singles feud with a worthy opponent. Ambrose plz.
> 
> edit really? I thought you said you loved it


Yeah I did love it. Would still say I do tbh. Wasn't giving it my full attention this time around, and well, its too fucking hot in my room atm. I don't normally have my radiator on, but it has to be on today for some... I dunno, plumbing reason. And as a ginger, I can't handle the heat .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If the thought of heat makes you uneasy I'mma start calling you 'Alberto Del Cal' from now on


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL excuses, excuses. I watched that match a few weeks ago when I popped in the KING OF KINGS DVD as I seem to do around Thanksgiving every year (coincidence?), and it held up for me. With about a year in between viewings it makes the re-watches that much more exciting because there's always a spot or some nuance that I seem to forget.

edit :lmao :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Forgot to mention that even though it wasn't clean Ziggler beating Cena on PPV felt like a big moment for him. Looking forward to his impending title win.

Wonder what they have in store for The Shield on the road to Mania.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I didn't care about the way Ziggler won. He stood tall to close out the main event of a PPV against the guy who seemingly never loses when placed in that slot on the card (every PPV).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I could see them feuding with Bryan & Kane, since Ryback seems certain to be in the World Title picture given his momentum. Just hope they find a way to distance him from the Shield without the need to have him beat them, something like them coming close but ultimately failing to cost him the Rumble before both get drafted into separate programs could work. Would like to see them in a big showcase match at Mania and going over.

Could be a really interesting time post Mania if they continue to book them well and give them more character via promos and more feuds. Hopefully Bray Wyatt debuts with his 'family' after Mania as well and slowly becomes a mainstay on the roster and gets good booking to hopefully blow up big sometime in 2014.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can someone gimme the dates of Ambrose's must see FCW (or NXT? I don't fuckin know) matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BRAY WYATT

I most certainly am looking forward to seeing more of this guy in the future be that on NXT or his eventual call up. Talk about a sinister motherfucker. He's great and the portrayal of the entire family is even better. So crazed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

King of Kings DVD :agree:

One of the only DVDs that has a universal mixed reaction that I happen to adore with every ounce of my being. DAT TRIPS.

Why does Taker have to be involved with HHH/HBK in literally EVERYTHING that he does now ? Chances are if Cal's scenario is true, then we get a Punk-Cena-Rock main event, which I'm all cool for if it means Punk gets a main event title match at Wrestlemania. Would be the obvious way to have Cena go over Rock while still having the 'Once in a Lifetime' tag on the WM XXVIII match stand true.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Can someone gimme the dates of Ambrose's must see FCW (or NXT? I don't fuckin know) matches.


Ambrose/Regal 11/6/11
Ambrose/Regal 7/15/12

Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15 Championship - FCW 8/28/11
Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15 Championship - FCW 9/18/11
Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 10/2/11

I hear good things about a couple of other matches from them (6/24), but those 3 had the crucial Seabs approval.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

11/06/11 and 07/15/12 are the Regal matches.

edit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Can someone gimme the dates of Ambrose's must see FCW (or NXT? I don't fuckin know) matches.


FCW - Dean Ambrose vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - Dec11-11
FCW - Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose I - FCW 15 Championship - FCW 15 Match - Aug14-11
FCW - Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose II - FCW 15 Championship - 20 Minute Time Limit - Aug28-11
FCW - Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose III - FCW 15 Championship - 30 Minute Time Limit - Sept18-11
FCW - Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose IV - FCW Title Super Eight Tournament - Oct2-11
FCW - Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose V - FCW Title - June24-12
FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose I - FCW TV - Nov6-11
FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose II - FCW TV - July15-12


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sweet. Need to get on that shit. Some serious man love for Ambrose flowing through me right now after watching TLC.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Same here. I've only seen the Regal matches so I'm going to check out the Rollins series.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

You both might also want to check out Rollins/Sandow 10/30/11 and 11/13/11. Seabs pimped both as legit MOTYCs and great showcases for Rollins in particular as a babyface worker who sells on a level close to 2009 Christian. The 10/30/11 match also apparently furthers the Ambrose/Rollins feud.

Actually finding the dates in Seabs' reviews has made me want to go check them out tomorrow or the day after. The way he lays out the structure and body of each match makes it sound incredible and the fact they seem to develop a long running story with every match makes it even sweeter.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah I'll do that. Haven't seen much of Sandow either so that's perfect.

Looking at the talent on the roster there's so much potential for good wrestling next year.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Having just checked, every match Cal and I listed is on youtube, bar Sandow/Rollins 10/30. Seabs should have a link somewhere and Cal may also have one, though I don't want to pressure both since they provide enough as it is 

The Rollins/Sandow series by the sounds of it is just a mix of great booking, Rollins being a great babyface limb seller and Sandow working his character and dissecting the limb very well, albeit perhaps not as good as someone like Ambrose. The 10/2 Rollins/Ambrose match apparently is 'THE' match between them. Ambrose apparently controls most of it with some brutal arm work and great character work revelling in the pain with Rollins not only selling expressively but also incorporating the injury into the match and namely his comeback offence.

Yup. Say what you will about the booking and the lack of real character depth on the roster, the actual ability of a lot of young guys is especially bright. Its just a shame they're booked in typically lazy feuds with no real progression or direction and at a time where WWE are struggling ratings wise and making it hard for these guys to get as over as they should be.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gonna watch the first disc of "Rob Van Dam : One of a Kind" tonight. Big RVD fan here, was wondering if anybody had seen this before and wanted to share their thoughts so I actually know what I'm in for here. 

Looking for a nice change of pace after the abysmal match listings of the NWO, Road Warriors, and WCCW DVDs. Two of the three worst match listings I've ever seen on a DVD right there , and the LOD set wasn't exactly Flair-Windham either :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't realize RVD had a DVD set


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He does, and I've been looking forward to it for a while now 

Just read Brett Mix's review of it, where he gave various matches featuring SABU ****** , so I obviously can't take the review all too seriously. Anybody have a REAL review of this ? :lol


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Rob's DVD is fantastic if you like the old ECW style of match since its mostly ecw stuff.

Disc ones is the best since it has two Lynn matches with the one from LD being one of the best ever and my MOTY in 1999. 

Anyway it's awesome...


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I was always a fan of RVD when he was in the WWE. Some of my favorite matches of his from his WWE years are:

RVD/Cena - One Night Stand 2006
RVD/Edge - Vengeance 2006 
RVD/Orton - Armageddon 2003
RVD/Christian/Jericho - Unforgiven 2003
RVD/Christian - ladder match - RAW


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SABU is awesome. As is RVD of course.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SANTA GAME said:


> Punk/Bryan wasn't nominated, imo, because as fantastic as it was, it's just a standalone match. The feud going in was shit and completely forgettable therefore the vast majority of people who don't post on wrestling boards and wet their pants over DAT WORKRATE tend to forget about it. That's what separates a true classic from just a really really good match to me. It needs to have those intangibles surrounding it. I'm speaking in general terms here but everybody will remember where they were and how they felt during Rock/Cena and when Rock won but nobody will remember where they were and how they felt during Punk/Bryan and when Punk won outside of a select few people. That's the difference. 5 years down the line, hardly anybody is going to be talking about Punk/Bryan outside of this forum most likely whereas a shit ton of fans will be talking about Rock beating Cena at Wrestlemania 28. That's just the way it is no matter what way you try and spin it.
> 
> Besides, its all fake 8*D


While that may be true, it doesn't explain Sheamus/Show getting nominated over Punk/Bryan. Meh, guess I'm jus' a lil' butthurt Punk mark.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Glad Punk/Bryan didn't get nominated. Officially the most overrated match ever to me. Can't believe just how much worse it got from first to second watch.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

This forum...Third try's the charm, let's try this again.
Thought I would post random matches and stars

Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon Ladder Match for IC Championship Wrestlemania X 1994 *****
Taka Michinoku vs The Great Sasuke IYH 16: Canadian Stampede 1997 ****
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret "Hitman" Hart "Submission" Match Wrestlemania 13 1997 *****
Undertaker vs Ric Flair No DQ Wrestlemania X8 2002**1/2
Razor Ramon vs Goldust IC Championship Royal Rumble 1996 ***1/2
Bret "Hitman" Hart vs "The Rocket" Owen Hart Wrestlemania X 1994 *****
Mr. Kennedy vs Undertaker No Mercy 2006 ***
Mr. Kennedy vs Undertaker Last Ride Match Armageddon 2006 ****
Rob Van Dam vs Booker T vs Kane vs Chris Jericho vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels Elimination Chamber for World Heavyweight Championship Survivor Series 2002 ****
MVP vs Kane Inferno Match Armageddon 2006***
Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon Street Fight King of the Ring 2001 ****1/2
Diesel vs Bret "Hitman"Hart WWF Championship Royal Rumble 1995 ***1/2 (WWE sounds weird when speaking of the past)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

RVD has two good matches that i can remember, Unforgiven against Trip @ **** and Benjamin at Bakcklash which is around ***3/4 - ****


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Sandrone said:


> While that may be true, it doesn't explain Sheamus/Show getting nominated over Punk/Bryan. Meh, guess I'm jus' a lil' butthurt Punk mark.


Nope, it really doesn't lol. The other 3 matches are self explanatory, Seamus/Show, I have no idea why they put it on there although I think it's pretty cool that they did. But what does it even matter if Punk/Bryan was nominated or not? It still wouldn't have won.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SANTA GAME said:


> Nope, it really doesn't lol. The other 3 matches are self explanatory, Seamus/Show, I have no idea why they put it on there although I think it's pretty cool that they did. But what does it even matter if Punk/Bryan was nominated or not? It still wouldn't have won.


Not unless WWE rigged it so the right match won.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The right match did win. Deal with it lol.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'll throw a "thank you" towards Showstopper because I can't PM him yet.


I notice there's alot of hate aimed at the New Generation Era, but what are the best/decent matches that are glossed over due to what the product was at that point in time?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SANTA GAME said:


> The right match did win. Deal with it lol.


No it didn't! This is a grave injustice... *cue the shield*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK/Diesel IYH: Good Friends, Better Enemies
HBK/Mankind IYH: Mind Games
HBK/Vader Summerslam 96
HBK/Sid S. Series 96
Bret/Diesel S. Series 95
Canadian Stampede tag
HBK/Razor Ramon ladder match x2
Steve Austin/Bret Hart S. Series 96 & Mania 13
Bulldog/Owen Euro title
IYH: Final Four
HBK/Taker HIAC
Bret/Taker Summerslam 97
HBK/Jarrett IYH: Lumberjacks
Bret/123 Kid Raw 94
HBK/Marty Raw 93 x2
Bret/Bulldog IYH: Season's Beatings

list will get longer as I continue to edit when more come to mind


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SpookshowTony said:


> I'll throw a "thank you" towards Showstopper because I can't PM him yet.
> 
> 
> I notice there's alot of hate aimed at the New Generation Era, but what are the best/decent matches that are glossed over due to what the product was at that point in time?


Just a few matches from 1993 - 1997. Bret and Shawn OWNED.


*1993*

Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect (Loses Leaves WWF) - Raw 01/25/1993
Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty - Raw 05/16/1993
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect - King of the Ring 
Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - King of the Ring
Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty - Raw 07/19/1993
Money Inc. vs. The Steiner Brothers (Cage Match) - Raw 08/22/1993 


*1994*

Bret & Owen Hart vs. The Steiner Brothers - WrestleFest 01/11/1994
The Quebecers vs. Bret & Owen Hart - Royal Rumble
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WrestleMania X
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) - WrestleMania X
Bret Hart vs. Diesel - King of the Ring 
Bret Hart vs. 123 Kid - Raw 07/11/1994
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - Raw 08/01/1994
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Steel Cage Match) - SummerSlam 
Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs. Razor Ramon & 123 Kid - Action Zone 10/04/1994
Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund (Submission Match) - Survivor Series


*1995*

Diesel vs. Bret Hart - Royal Rumble
Bret Hart vs. Hakushi - In Your House 
Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett - In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) - SummerSlam
Diesel vs. Bret Hart - Survivor Series 
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog - In Your House 5: Season's Beatings


*1996*

Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart - In Your House: Rage in a Cage
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (Iron Man Match) - WrestleMania 12
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel (No Holds Barred) - Good Friends, Better Enemies
Shawn Michaels vs. British Bulldog - King of the Ring
Shawn Michaels/Psycho Sid/Ahmed Johnson vs. Vader/Owen Hart/British Bulldog - International Incident
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind - Mind Games 
Undertaker vs. Mankind (Buried Alive Match) - Buried Alive
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - Survivor Series 
Shawn Michaels vs. Psycho Sid - Survivor Series


*1997* 

Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin vs. Undertaker vs. Vader - Final Four
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Submission Match) - WrestleMania 13
Owen Hart vs. British Bulldog - Raw 02/26/1997
Undertaker vs. Mankind - Revenge of the Taker
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - Revenge of the Taker
Undertaker vs, Steve Austin - A Cold Day In Hell
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels - Raw 05/26/1997
Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels - King of the Ring 
The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin/Ken Shamrock/L.O.D/Goldust - Canadian Stampede 
Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker - One Night Only 
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell Match) - Badd Blood 


There are more but you can start here.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> HBK/Diesel IYH: Good Friends, Better Enemies
> HBK/Mankind IYH: Mind Games
> Canadian Stampede tag
> HBK/Razor Ramon ladder match x2
> ...


Ah, thank you TRK.(Y)

Edit:Goddamn Clique, hold on!


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Add:

Bret hart vs Hakushi IYH #1 1995 (never mind)

Taker vs HBK at ground zero 97... Fucking crazy match perfect set up to hell in a cell...

Edit: I'll throw the Yoko and Bulldog vs Hbk and diesel tag match for all the belts from IYH 3
In the mix too since it fared pretty decent upon a recent viewing


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't see Bret/Hakushi but it looks like Clique included it. Agreed on Ground Zero.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you everyone who answered, but hell hold on! I'm writing this down so I have something to do tomorrow.


Edit:Thanks guys! Although people cream over the Attitude Era, I love the NG Era. The characters/gimmicks, Mcmahon at the announcing table etc. Probably one the few who likes the Diesel character though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Avoid the Iron Man match from WrestleMania 12 at all costs.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Avoid the Iron Man match from WrestleMania 12 at all costs.


I actually saw that on PPV. Gets **** from me. You really didn't like it?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Avoid the Iron Man match from WrestleMania 12 at all costs.


He might need something to sleep on after tiring himself from all those matches. Iron Man isn't for everyone though it is one of the most memorable matches of that period. 

Check Bret and Shawn's matches with wen. Can't go wrong with those.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> I actually saw that on PPV. Gets **** from me. You really didn't like it?


Terrible. Worked all wrong.

Btw, I recommend Undertaker vs Mankind from King of the Ring '96 to be tossed into the lists given by TLK & Clique. Great match.



Clique said:


> He might need something to sleep on after tiring himself from all those matches. Iron Man isn't for everyone though it is one of the most memorable matches of that period.
> 
> Check Bret and Shawn's matches with wen. Can't go wrong with those.


The ol "cure for insomnia" type match.

Bret & Owen is on youtube. I'll take the time to watch it sooner or later.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^Well that Iron Man match happened when I was 6 or 7, so I might need to give that match a fresh new view due to the years that have passed since.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's possible. I never want to watch it again. Does me no good to own in on DVD. History of the WWE Championship DVD set could have threw on other matches from the 90's to take up over an hour of DVD time.

Wonder what is left now that plenty more sets have been released following it. Michaels vs Sid from Survivor Series '96 hasn't iirc. Now that's a match worth owning.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> It's possible. I never want to watch it again. Does me no good to own in on DVD. History of the WWE Championship DVD set could have threw on other matches from the 90's to take up over an hour of DVD time.
> 
> Wonder what is left now that plenty more sets have been released following it. Michaels vs Sid from Survivor Series '96 hasn't iirc. Now that's a match worth owning.


I have HBK/Sid SS'96 on the Survivor Series 1992-1996 Anthology Set. I think I might have every HBK PPV match ever, haha.

Here it is on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Survivor-Series-Anthology-1992-1996/dp/B002K0WBX2

I bought it used in FYE last year for half the price. DVD was in near mint condition. Couldn't pass that up. HBK/Sid was one of the last HBK PPV matches I didn't have, so I had to buy it.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Starting to watch HBK/Diesel at In Your House on youtube...but it's from The Vault DVD and in a way it's split screen. And you have HBK, The Coach and I believe Al Snow talking while the video is playing. Fantastic.


Edit: Eh, guess I'll just watch it with no sound.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah yes, the PPV in full. I guess that counts. I was fixated on compilation sets only with my comment. I'd hate to buy those b/c of the edits. Well, '96 would probably be ok. Maybe some themes would only be edited out. I own the latter parts of the WrestleMania anthology set and it's the worst. You ever watched WrestleMania 17 with that many blurs? It makes me miss my VHS player.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Ah yes, the PPV in full. I guess that counts. I was fixated on compilation sets only with my comment. I'd hate to buy those b/c of the edits. Well, '96 would probably be ok. Maybe some themes would only be edited out. I own the latter parts of the WrestleMania anthology set and it's the worst. You ever watched WrestleMania 17 with that many blurs? It makes me miss my VHS player.


Ah, my bad, didn't know you meant compilations. Yeah, I wouldn't buy that set full price either. But used, still in good shape, and half-price? Sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know it. I once saw the Summerslam anthology sets for $50 a pop. I want to own the PPVs and relive them, but not for that price. 5 edited PPVs for 50 bucks isn't fair for me.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^Looking to make Wrestlemania Anthologies Vol. 2 & 3 mine, but I've already spent X-mas money. :batista3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

6-10 & 11-15, eh?

I'd love to own 6-10. 11-15 not so much. Latter two are heavily edited as I mentioned. 11 & 12 aren't really anything worth seeing overall. Goldust vs Piper from 12 owned though, haha. Plus I own Undertaker's match from both events. Undertaker vs Diesel is solid.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Ah fuckin' edits. Hollywood backlot was awesome. My fragile mind at that time couldn't understand why a man was wearing womens' underwear...9PM and the fucking people upstairs are vacuuming.


Edit: What's with the Database errors?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldust was bizarre. That's all children at the time needed to know.

I was only 5 years old when that match happened. Wow. Too bad I didn't attend. Arrowhead Pond in Anaheim was literally 20 minutes tops from my home back then.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Damn 20 minutes?

Shame they turned him into a comedic character because that gimmick was gold (no pun intended). He actually stepped toe-to-toe with main eventers like HBK and Taker, plus he became a 3-time IC Champ. Nothing to sniff at.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Goldust, anyone else liked his stuttering gimmick in 2003 after being electrocuted by Evolution? I was laughing hard on damn near every segment he was involved in during that period.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Goldust, anyone else liked his stuttering gimmick in 2003 after being electrocuted by Evolution? I was laughing hard on damn near every segment he was involved in during that period.


I kind of liked it, but at that time the Goldust character should have been put to rest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldust was SO over during 2002 - 2003 return & tandem with Booker. It was awesome.

Stuttering stuff was hilarious. For better or worse it was.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Goldust was SO over during 2002 - 2003 return & tandem with Booker. It was awesome.
> 
> Stuttering stuff was hilarious. For better or worse it was.


When Goldust asked Booker if he can bit/eat his weiner...that was funny. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I always jump to the promo in the ring with Game & Flair leading up to WrestleMania. Heels were cracking up.

C-C-CORNBREAD.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Damn it, can only find Booker/Goldust videos not the HHH/Flair one.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn...-h-s-challenge-raw-3-17-03_sport#.UNEsSeRlz6c

that's the promo in question.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wonder if that Goldust vs Triple H the same night is any good. Trips '03 is notorious for being his weakest year as a main eventer, but maybe it's a gem.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll have to take a look and see if it gets DAT BIASED TRIPS rating from me :hhh

However, I have about another 12 awesome RVD matches to get through. Last match I saw was probably the most choreographed match of all time that took place between Rob and Sabu, but it was so fucking crazy that I had to throw ***** at it. I love me a good old fashioned mindless spotfest every now and then, you feel me ? 

PLUS I THINK JEFF HARDY GETS SQUASHED ON HERE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Jeff does get squashed.

RVD vs Jerry Lynn on that set is IMO


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Vader13 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn...-h-s-challenge-raw-3-17-03_sport#.UNEsSeRlz6c
> 
> that's the promo in question.


Damn good. Damn, damn good. Thank you. (Y)

I would like to say this, Triple H is the only heel I was legitimately getting pissed at during that time. Seriously spewing hellfire whenever he won. I'll give him respect, though I don't care for him. Oddly enough I liked his Blue blood gimmick. Hmm.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Going back a few pages, I don't think Goldust ever got rid of the stuttering gimmick. I swear I remembering him doing it even when he made his return (in '09 I believe it was)

Anyway, Goldust scared the shit out me as a kid. That and that freaking mini dust.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, 2 of the 3 big time RVD-Lynn matches are on the set. The one from living dangerously got pretty ridiculous ratings tagged on to it. What would you give the match ? LOVED the Hardcore Heaven match, but I haven`t seen it in about 8 years


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Damn good. Damn, damn good. Thank you. (Y)
> 
> I would like to say this, Triple H is the only heel I was legitimately getting pissed at during that time. Seriously spewing hellfire whenever he won. I'll give him respect, though I don't care for him. Oddly enough I liked his Blue blood gimmick. Hmm.


Hunter Hearst Helmsley rules.

I loved that gimmick.

EDIT ~ Watched it last year, but I swear I was near 5 stars on the Living Dangerously match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm probably the only one (except you know who lol) who actually enjoyed HHH's 02-04 reign. Fucking legit, badass heel. Something you don't see anymore.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Pretty weird that Scott Hall refused to get into the ring with him due to his persona, despite wrestling being...you know...guys rolling around on the mat...wearing tights...soooo okay.


^^^I really can't get into today's product as a whole but they really need a Triple H-esque heel. Someone who stands on the mountaintop repeatedly kicking faces in their...faces while struggling to get to knock the heel off said mountain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm probably the only one (except you know who lol) who actually enjoyed HHH's 02-04 reign. Fucking legit, badass heel. Something you don't see anymore.


Evolution was awesome. But, Game's ring work was pretty bad in latter '02 & all of '03. Really bulky body hindered him. Plus the injury from about August '03 - December(?) hurt him too.

He did have some strong bouts that year. No doubt. vs Booker at WrestleMania & vs Shawn on RAW to close the year. Great matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hunter Hearst Helmsley :lol

"RIFF-RAFFS" :lol

Trips gets me every single fucking time with that gimmick. Just an awesome evolution (no pun intended) of a singular character over a particular time period. Still can't believe he jobbed to Alex Wright on a Starrcade PPV in what was actually a pretty damn good match for a guy who hadn't done anything in the business thus far. 

Come to think of it, that might be what the mid card is missing now. They should just tell Cesaro and like... UMMM...... SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE MID CARD to go out there and kill it on a PPV for 20 minutes straight to get themselves over. Would be awesome.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

You know that Booker T match is really something. I won't consider it MOTY, a classic, one of the best Mania matches of all time but it was a damn good showing for Booker T. Really enjoyed it while it lasted.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^(North Pole)Yeah, but that involves actual wrestling something today's crowds don't care for.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's true. They would much rather see Santa Claus being ran over by a rich Mexican aristocrat (OOOOPS RAW SPOILERZ) . BECUZ DAZ SPOTRZ ENTERTAINMANTTTTTTTTT.

This RVD DVD is rockin' so far, maybe because I just sat through two of the worst match listings ever last week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Hunter Hearst Helmsley :lol
> 
> "RIFF-RAFFS" :lol
> 
> ...


Well Alex Wright was in the middle of getting his original DAS WUNDERKIND push. No surprise at all to see the kid pick up a win.

That's really be an MO of WCW instead of WWF/WWE. Vince's company always excelled by putting all their emphasis on the main event or semi main event. The undercard matches always have seemed to get a bit lost in the shuffle. Which isn't the worst thing, as they are undercard matches for a reason, but WCW was certainly the workhorse/midcard exposure promotion. Only problem was the main events were the same. Short & bad.

I'd doubt WWE would give Cesaro 20 minutes in the midcard. He's too busy dominating to do so. Which is ~!



sharkboy22 said:


> You know that Booker T match is really something. I won't consider it MOTY, a classic, one of the best Mania matches of all time but it was a damn good showing for Booker T. Really enjoyed it while it lasted.


***3/4 imo. I really, really enjoy it. LOVE the Harlem Hangover spot.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Damn I would really like to buy some wrestling DVDs, maybe starting with Bret's "Best There Is" one since he's a top favourite of mine. But that will have to happen after the holidays. unk3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Booker-Trips is legit ****** from me. Fucking AWESOME match, and Trips`s second best match of 2003.

Watching RVD-Dreamer now from NTR 1997. TONS of heat and emotion in an ECW style environment. Not just a bunch of violent spots (yes, there are those) , but actually a pretty good story going on in this one. Dreamer has Van Dam beaten like 76784354 times but the referees keep breaking it up....

AAANDDDDDDD it's gone way over the top as I'm writing this :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DOUG FURNAS & PHIL LAFON SHOWED UP IN THAT.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Decided to skip Diesel/HBK IYH and started watching Bret/Perfect KOTR. Not good with detailed reviews but I'll give my opinion.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Booker/HHH WM19- ***1/2

Probably HHH's best PPV match of the year. He was awful that year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He truly WAS awful that year. The match with Shawn at the end of the year woke his ass up and made him care about being a great in-ring performer again. His 2004-2006 was fucking AWESOME if I do say so myself. Even his 04-05 TV matches were off the fucking chain.

Watching RVD-Jerry Lynn now :mark:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Again , not good with detailed reviews.

Bret "Hitman" Hart vs Mr. Perfect King of the Ring Semi-finals 1993

Everything about this match was fantastic. The crowd was alive, the commentators were fully behind BOTH men(well not really Heenan who had his issues with Perfect)and lots of edge-of-your-seat near-falls. Bret was already injured going into the match after his battle with Razor Ramon (which I will check out) and that comes into play near the end. Lots of headlock takedowns and chain wrestling (that will get boring chants five minutes into matches today) but it's never dull. Perfect being very aggressive especially when he sends the Hitman brutally flying off the ring apron and into the steel guardrail and on the concrete floor. Now with a hurt right knee (which he later performs a backbreaker on) Perfect briefly dominates but makes the mistake of climbing the top rope and gets ride off the turnbuckle via superplex. Hitman begins wearing down Perfect's leg, the crowd gets amped up because they believe the sharpshooter's near. Hart puts Perfect into a figure four which Perfect fights the urge to tap. Perfect reaches the rope but the Hitman again works on the leg before Perfect breaks the hold. Perfect fights dirty and applies a sleeper hold to the Hitman, who reaches the rope. When Perfect breaks free, his knee gives out (though Hennig could have just busted his ass and covered for it) and another sleeper is applied but broken when Bret slams Perfect into the turnbuckle. A brutal uppercut is followed by a spot where Bret tosses Perfect across the ring and slams his jewels into the ringpost. Inverted atomic drop, followed by a russian leg sweep and a near-fall. Backbreaker, elbow off the second rope and 2 count. Hart goes for the sharpshooter and the crowd goes crazy, but Perfect grabs and works on Hart's injured fingers. A couple of attempted Perfectplexes and a suplex over the top rope lands both men outside. Both get back in the ring (if you can't tell I'm half-assing it), Perfect goes for an inside cradle but it's reversed by the Hitman for the pinfall. Winner: Bret "Hitman" Hart ***** Excellent match.

Fuck this summary thing. Brief description and stars for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> He truly WAS awful that year. The match with Shawn at the end of the year woke his ass up and made him care about being a great in-ring performer again. His 2004-2006 was fucking AWESOME if I do say so myself. Even his 04-05 TV matches were off the fucking chain.
> 
> Watching RVD-Jerry Lynn now :mark:


RVD vs Lynn :mark:



SpookshowTony said:


> Again , not good with detailed reviews.
> 
> Bret "Hitman" Hart vs Mr. Perfect King of the Ring Semi-finals 1993
> 
> ...


Review was good. (Y)

Don't agree about it being a perfect match, but it's great nonetheless. ****1/4 is where I have it. Their Summerslam '91 match is even BETTER imo. Which is tremendous.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

(Hayley Joy) I'll have to pile that onto what I'm watching. 

Some people have this in-depth criteria for what makes a match great, I can't give you one because I don't have one. If I'm entertained by a match it could be a plethora of things that make it great, but I can't give you a definitive reason. If it's excellent it's excellent. (This isn't an attack on you. I tried to word this a certain way and it seems that I have failed.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, I hear you man. At the end of the day it's all opinion/preference anyways. It's a universally loved match regardless of what snowflakes get placed next to it.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Ah, I didn't give a thank you for reading my shit summary.

:sandow2 Thank you for your relevant opinion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sandow approved.

Hmm. Thinking I'm in the mood to watch a random match. Might hit up youtube. Type in the first name that comes to mind: Tensai/Albert.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RVD/LYNN is awesome , and one of the best ECW matches that I've ever seen. ***** 1/4* for me, which is above practically everything on the WCCW DVD combined. 

I adore both the Summerslam 91 and King of the Ring 93 matches when it comes to Bret/Perfect, but I'd give the nod to KOTR 93, which I'd throw ***** 1/2* at. Just a great, GREAT fucking match that I've seen a few throw the full five at.

Personal preference is huge IMO. For me personally, one of the greatest matches of all time is Hunter-Jericho from Fully Loaded 2000. Fuck, if I watched that match and the Royal Rumble Street Fight back to back, I wonder would I say the Fully Loaded match is the better one ? Speaking of five star matches, I've been trying to re-rank them on top of all the other things I've ever doing wrestling related, and IMO Brock-Cena ER 12 > Taker-HBK WM XXVI. I fucking LOVE both matches though and give them the full five, don't get me wrong. Both crack my top 10 WWF/WWE matches ever ATM I do believe.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Read about what happened to him on Monday. Not a fan, but damn do I feel bad for him. Huge in Japan, a nobody here. Damn shame.

I'll be checking out HBK/Mankind IYH:Mind Games.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Idk why ppl buy wwe dvds . Just searching Netflix and NWO is on there. I bought the Punk dvd which was absolutely great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> RVD/LYNN is awesome , and one of the best ECW matches that I've ever seen. ***** 1/4* for me, which is above practically everything on the WCCW DVD combined.
> 
> I adore both the Summerslam 91 and King of the Ring 93 matches when it comes to Bret/Perfect, but I'd give the nod to KOTR 93, which I'd throw ***** 1/2* at. Just a great, GREAT fucking match that I've seen a few throw the full five at.
> 
> Personal preference is huge IMO. For me personally, one of the greatest matches of all time is Hunter-Jericho from Fully Loaded 2000. Fuck, if I watched that match and the Royal Rumble Street Fight back to back, I wonder would I say the Fully Loaded match is the better one ? Speaking of five star matches, I've been trying to re-rank them on top of all the other things I've ever doing wrestling related, and IMO Brock-Cena ER 12 > Taker-HBK WM XXVI. I fucking LOVE both matches though and give them the full five, don't get me wrong. Both crack my top 10 WWF/WWE matches ever ATM I do believe.


RVD/Lynn :mark:

Cena/Brock would be closer to going the distance for me than Undertaker/Michaels WM 26 would.



SpookshowTony said:


> Read about what happened to him on Monday. Not a fan, but damn do I feel bad for him. Huge in Japan, a nobody here. Damn shame.
> 
> I'll be checking out HBK/Mankind IYH:Mind Games.


Garbage. I hate it so much.

That match is excellent. Oh, I love the hell out of it. Botched ending or not it's :mark:



Turbo Man Prime said:


> Idk why ppl buy wwe dvds . Just searching Netflix and NWO is on there. I bought the Punk dvd which was absolutely great.


I like to own. Don't know why, but I do.

*WWF SmackDown 6/14/01* - *WWF Intercontinental Championship*
Kane(c) vs Albert ~ ***​
Two elements made this sprint awesome. First: POWER. Albert was chucking Kane all over the place. Two: the stellar counters both men busted out. Albert countering the chokeslam into a BOSS ddt & Kane counting the Baldo Bomb into a dropkick on the chest, WHAT?! :mark:

All done in the span of 5:22. I loved that.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^Maybe they buy the DVDs to have right there at their disposal instead of downloading or getting it from netflix. I don't know.

(North Pole) My top match would be...no clue. The last PPV I saw was Wrestlemania X-Seven. One match I do like to revisit is the Michinoku/Sasuke match at IYH 16. Starts slow but when it picks up speed, you'll be glad you watched it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Canadian Stampede as a whole is an excellent PPV. Taka vs Sasuke is grand. If only they had a chance to kill in it in WCW during '97 too. They could have said "we had 3 great matches in the 3 major US promotions during one year."

ECW Barely Legal Michinoku Pro 6 man being the other.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Come to think of it, that might be what the mid card is missing now. They should just tell Cesaro and like... UMMM...... SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE MID CARD to go out there and kill it on a PPV for 20 minutes straight to get themselves over. Would be awesome.



That's something that should be done more often. Thinking of that awesome bryan/ziggler series in 2010 starting with their bragging rights match did wonders for both of them, by just tearing the house down.

Bryan's US title reign is what Cesaro should be getting right now in a ppv match sense. Bryan got 15-20 minutes to show what he could do in the ring and that helped him get over. Bryan had matches with dibiase, Miz, Ziggler, etc.

Cesaro should get that to help establish his dominance as the US Champ. Cesaro's problem right now is developing his character, once he gets his character developed he's going to be awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Company wise he's being booked incredibly well. He's dominating the midcarders. He's holding his own again Sheamus on more than one occasion. He's cutting promos. It's only from a complete "getting over with fans" perspective is where the company needs to aid him. Over with people like myself, obviously, but get some heel heat with the casuals. I remember when people said Dolph never would get any. That changed. He'll get some, they just have to work on it. Destroying jobbers like R-Truth isn't going to cut it though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

ADAM BOMB


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DOLPH


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I currently own 200+ WWE DVDS, on a journey to collect them all over the next few years.

I'm not the kind of guy that needs to own a show 3 or 4 different times, or buy 2 or 3 different versions of the same DVD. If I own something once and have one physical WWE produced copy, I'm cool with it. For example, I don't own the original "Here Comes the Pain" one disc release, but I bought the three disc collectors edition, therefore crossing the one disc off my list of DVDs I have to purchase. I try to buy every new PPV , so I NEVER pick up the "best of" releases at the end of the year (barely own anything from 08-10 though, so those DVDs would be suitable for me), although I'm picking up the 2012 set because I failed to get NWO or SS 12 upon first release and I NEED DAT HHH-LESNAR MATCH. 

Getting the WM anthology for Christmas, meaning that I won't be buying stand alone copies of WM's XV-X8 (own XIX and XX original copies) even if the blurs annoy the fuck out of me. Just a waste of money if I do say so myself. Owning things on disc and having your own physical library of matches is fucking BOSS. Plan on buying a region free DVD player eventually and purchasing a whole bunch of tagged classics just so I can get a ton of great matches in my library that I don't already own (Jericho-Trips being one of them).

Shame I'll never own my top 25 WWF/WWE matches ever due to Benoit TV matches being two of them


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Company wise he's being booked incredibly well. He's dominating the midcarders. He's holding his own again Sheamus on more than one occasion. He's cutting promos. It's only from a complete "getting over with fans" perspective is where the company needs to aid him. Over with people like myself, obviously, but get some heel heat with the casuals. I remember when people said Dolph never would get any. That changed. He'll get some, they just have to work on it. Destroying jobbers like R-Truth isn't going to cut it though.


He's getting booked awesomely, it's just that he hasn't been in a meaningful storyline that will make people care about him. This R Truth feud as you said is getting him nowhere, he needs to get into a feud with an established face.

That's why I really hate that mysterio is with Cara right now, a Mysterio/Cesaro feud over the US title would put Cesaro over in a huge way, their matches would be awesome as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BEAUTIFUL BRYAN


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Best In The North Pole said:


> BEAUTIFUL BRYAN


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

fuck ryback squashed antonio


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ryback will do more harm to the industry within the next five years than anybody else. Mark my words. Feels like we're going back to the Hogan Era of big muscleheads with no talent getting pushed to the moon.

Cue the "VANILLA MIDGETS DON'T DWAW" hate. Oh wait, I forgot I was in a logical thread :lol

I swear, the day some ratings/draw/buyrate marks get in here and ruin this sacred thread with their nonsense :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> He's getting booked awesomely, it's just that he hasn't been in a meaningful storyline that will make people care about him. This R Truth feud as you said is getting him nowhere, he needs to get into a feud with an established face.
> 
> That's why I really hate that mysterio is with Cara right now, a Mysterio/Cesaro feud over the US title would put Cesaro over in a huge way, their matches would be awesome as well.


Mysterio isn't up to the level he once was at, but I'm certain the matches would work vs Cesaro. No doubt getting the fans to care about him would. Mysterio ALWAYS gets a reaction.

Not too worried about Cesaro losing to Ryback. It puts Ryback over and Cesaro has been booked so well by the company that he's going to be fine following it. I would have preferred a Cesaro win, but I'm only being realistic in excepting what is expected.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watching the HBK/Mankind match, I believe something was botched. Mankind reversed an irish whip sending Michaels to the turnbuckle. Michaels I guess was suppose to hit a crossbody but Mankind didn't follow. HBK looks legit pissed.

Edit: I do believe he's pissed, giving Mick some stiff elbow shots to the face.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's Shawn during that era. Yeah, he's pissed.

Upcoming COKE days of '97._ (probably then too)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have so much concern about the future of the WWE that it's insane. It almost feels as if we're moving backwards as opposed to forward in the company philosophy. We had guys like Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart break the mold for what a champion should be, taking the focus off the big muscles and no workrate of the former champions like Warrior and Hogan. They broke the walls down for guys such as Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit to win the world titles based off of momentum, storytelling ability, and natural character development. Then Rey won the world title and it became a story of "okay, this is entertainment, the best storytellers are the guys that should be on top, the ones who work hard and naturally develop a connection with the crowd". Punk (the most muscle-less world champion there has ever been probably, still 220 LBs mind you) reassured me that wrestling was in a good place once again ; storytelling and the ability to naturally get over MATTERED again it seemed.

Now look at today. Daniel Bryan is one of the greatest storytellers and workers of his generation, making low card guys to main event guys look great inside the ring. The guy busts his ass off night in and night out, and eventually carves himself a role in the company as an extremely entertaining personality. One could argue that at one point during this year ; he was the hottest thing in the company by far. Fuck, they bury him down and down and down and he STILL gets killer reactions due to his capability as a double threat in the ring and on the microphone. One should figure that he would be in the main event scene right now with reactions like he has now right ? OH and I forgot to mention ; he did this and got THIS OVER while being fed nothing but garbage (oversaturation of AJ Lee into his storylines, losing in 18 seconds at Mania, being essentially squashed by the likes of Alberto Del Rio). How did he do it ? HARD WORK and natural fucking ability. Instead of being around where PUNK is, he's being treated as if he's on the level of Miz.

Let's look at Ryback, shall we ? This guy comes in and is immediately given matches (squashes) all lasting less than 10 minutes. He wins, he wins, and he wins. He starts to get more of a crowd reaction than the norm, but here's the thing ; WHO WOULDN'T GET A FUCKING REACTION IF THEY WON EVERY SINGLE MATCH. Wrestling may be kayfabe and "fake" , but I DAMN sure know that alot of casual fans gravitate towards winners. He got over due to the WWE PR machine that was behind him, and not on his standalone natural ability, which really fucking irks me. Here's a guy that can't wrestle a decent match to save his life, or cut a promo worth listening to, and basically if he chooses it seems like he can be the one to dethrone John Cena as the face of the company ? You're kidding me, right ? It's the most un-natural build to a wrestler that I've ever seen in my life, so bad that WWE is pushing him down our throats in main event matches already.

He walks to the ring, says "feed me more" , goes for under 10 minutes , and leaves. Two years from now, tell me how over that is. I say the WWE PR machine got him over for a reason ; take Ryback and put him in ANY other wrestling company in this world and tell him to succeed. Do the same with Bryan and you tell me who generates more revenue and is more entertaining for your company.

My point is simple ; Ryback got over because of his situation that will eventually grow stale and fizzle out (LOOK) , while Bryan got over(moreso than Ryback) DESPITE what the WWE gave him. Now with the introduction of another shitty musclehead (Langston) , it got me wondering what kind of philosophy the company is taking to their product, and why they're doing this.

They have to potential to KILL wrestling to alot of fans, me included. It's all personal opinion but, if they continue to feed gold to shit and shit to gold, how can they expect the audience to continue to buy into their product ?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I think Vince knows that Cena is breaking down and wants to introduce new faces so there can be a "pass the torch" moment. I've read some post about Ryback and it's scary. Bringing in a new era? Of what? What once was the past where big guys couldn't move nor had conditioning? Frightening. I know this next piece has no connection with your post but I must let loose. Why is there an anti-indy frontier on this forum? Why can't people stand seeing guys that look like Punk,D-Bry and Tyson Kidd wrestle but prefer guys like Ryback, Batista and such? Vince has brainwashed people into thinking that if they're not built like HHH they can't be stars. It pisses me off and I know this has nothing to do with your post but...I needed to release the stupidity I've read before signing up.

I have no problem with guys like Bam Bam, Vader and Umaga since they can actually go in the ring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c they're trolling or really are brainwashed by the image of size through the eyes of Vince McMahon.

SIZE MATTERS. Ha. No it fucking doesn't. Talent does. And talent can come in many different ways.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Going back to the subject of Booker/Goldust/HHH 2003, if you haven't already checked out BookDust/GameFlair tag from 24/3 (the go home show to Mania) then you should watch it instantly. Fucking awesome performance from all four guys, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was top three HHH matches from 2003, alongside Booker at Mania and Shawn at the end of the year.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

OK, I did this in the TNA thread and I'll do it here for WWE. 

The Top Ten Worst PPV Matches of 2012. Now for TNA I actually had a little bit of trouble because most of the bad PPV matches were mostly blasse. I didn't feel like there were any matches that were stunningly awful to the point that I'll remember them a decade later because of how bad they were. 

Fortunately (or unfortunately, I don't know) I did not have that problem with WWE as I knew right where to go for most of the spots. They gave us some shiny turds this year, some of them high profile matches. 

So here we go, the Top Ten Worst WWE PPV Matches of 2012! 

10) Daniel Bryan Vs. Sheamus: World Championship at Wrestlemania XXVIII = I'll be honest, I actually laughed my ass off when they did this 18 second match at Wrestlemania. I knew the IWC rage was going to be insanely high and the thought gave me the giggles. I didn't care about the match to begin with for a lot of the same reasons that I don't care about most World Title matches in general, but an 18 second opener just made me "And the point of this was what exactly?". I usually say there doesn't need to be two World Titles, this match sort of justifies my stance. 

9) The 2012 Royal Rumble Match = "It will be the end of the World as you know it" That one statement from Jericho instantly peaked my interest for the Royal Rumble PPV event. I thought "what does he mean?" "is he going to go after Punk?" "is there some other shock that I can't even think of?". With Jericho in the Rumble match itself, I thought for sure he would win it and then close the show with whatever it was he hinted at with his statement. But no, Sheamus just won and that was that. Nothing interesting happened at all. So the thing I tuned in for turned out to be a wasted opportunity and the rest of the match felt empty as well. It felt like they just loaded it with guys to get nostalgia pops (Hacksaw, Road Dogg, etc.), bad comedy entrants, & guys whose names I couldn't remember. And they also did a bad job with the marathon man spot as Cody & Miz lasted the longest and I forgot they were out there half the time. 

8) Cody Rhodes Vs. The Big Show: Intercontinental Championship at Wrestlemania XXVIII = The ending to this one pissed me off more than Sheamus/Bryan did. And the sad thing is, I knew in my gut that it was coming. So they build up Cody as IC Champion and actually give him something interesting to do by mocking Big Show's Wrestlemania history. They could have taken that throughout the year and with future opponents until Cody suffered his defeat at the hands of a new star or a hot babyface (Ryback anyone?). But no, Big Show has to have his Wrestlemania moment. So great, instead of running with a strong heel champion, you gave Big Show the belt in a match that nobody is going to remember in 5 years. And the sad thing is, the rematch at Extreme Rules was booked exactly how this match should have been. So I thought "OK, maybe they can salvage this" but no, they just had him drop it to Christian the next PPV completely out of the blue. Whatever. 

7) John Cena Vs. The Big Show: Steel Cage Match at No Way Out 2012 = So lets turn Big Show heel, make him a monster again, and then have him lose his first match right off the bat. That's a good idea! It just cemented how pointless the Big Show turn was as they just had Cena beat him for the 80th time. The match itself was boring and slow and featured more overbooking than I care to recount here. It was just an exercise in pointlessness. 

6) Eve Torres Vs. Layla Vs. Kaitlyn: Divas Title at Hell in a Cell 2012 = I usually don't pay much attention to the divas matches. Yeah they are typically bad, but they are unimportant filler, so who cares? But this one seemed really bad. It was pretty sloppy and centered around a storyline that I just couldn't bother to care about. 

5-3) Sheamus Vs. Alberto Del Rio: World Championship Matches from Money in the Bank, Summerslam, & Night of Champions = So not only do I just flat out not care about these guys' characters, but in the ring, they clearly have no chemistry. These matches were just flat out boring. There isn't any other way to say it. I fell asleep during the Money in the Bank match and the Summerslam match featured a very stupid finish that only served to frustrate me because I knew it meant at least one more match was coming. By the time they did their third match, I was just ready for it to be done. 

2) Santino Marella Vs. Ricardo Rodriguez: Tuxedo Match at No Way Out 2012 = When I saw this on paper, I thought that it was either going to be hilarious, or it was going to be a complete disaster. There was no middle ground. Sure enough, it was a disaster. It was unfunny, it came off poorly, and only served to reinforce my belief that WWE can't do comedy. 

1) John Cena Vs. John Laurinaitis at Over the Limit 2012 = They closed out a PPV with this. I am dead fucking serious. Not only did I not care for the story at all whatsoever (it was about as awful a rehash of Austin/McMahon as you can possibly have) but the stakes meant nothing to me. As I've said before, I don't care at all who is in charge of the show and I feel modern wrestling companies spend way too much time dealing with authority figure character. All of that aside, the match was just bad slapstick from start to finish and featured one of the most obvious "see it coming a mile away" turns ever and it only served to continue this story that I didn't give two shits about to begin with.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched that Goldust/HHH promo that was posted a few pages back :lmao. Stuttering Goldust was fucking hilarious.

HHH/Booker WM - **** and HHH's best match for 03.

There was some talk about RVD and his best matches earlier too. And not one single person mentioned his stuff with Eddie. SHAME ON YOU. RVD's greatest matches ever are with Eddie. Backlash 02, then Raw 02 Ladder match would be #1 and #2 for me, followed by Vs Benoit at SS 02. Not into his stuff with Lynn in ECW.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock/Cena

Last time I watched this I didn't like it all that much. Watching it now and am really digging it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

SpookshowTony said:


> Watching the HBK/Mankind match, I believe something was botched. Mankind reversed an irish whip sending Michaels to the turnbuckle. Michaels I guess was suppose to hit a crossbody but Mankind didn't follow. HBK looks legit pissed.
> 
> Edit: I do believe he's pissed, giving Mick some stiff elbow shots to the face.


That was actually planned by both guys. It was an inside joke at HBK getting pissed at Vader at the PPV the month before (SummerSlam '96). Mick has talked about it numerous times.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just seen Edge's last DVD. Very good one, second WWE Dvd after Cm Punk's Best in the World


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Some random matches I forgot

Alundra Blayze vs Bull Nakano Summerslam 1994 ***1/2
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Hell in a Cell for WWF Championship Badd Blood: In Your House *****
Bret "Hitman" Hart vs 123 Kid Raw 7/11/94 ****
Lawrence Taylor vs Bam Bam Bigelow Wrestlemania XI 1995 **
The Ultimate Warrior vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley Wrestlemania XII 1996 :lol

I remember watching the LT/Bam Bam match not being really exciting but it was memorable despite not knowing who LT was.
I would also like to say that the 123 Kid was the one who got me cheering for the underdogs. Even if the match is one sided. 


(Showstopper) Ah, didn't know that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Taker/Orton HIAC this morning since that's where the disc was up to after my attempted re-watch of HHH/Batista yesterday (which didn't go well lol). Unlike HHH/Batista, I was in the mood for watching it and I still fucking loved it. I miss that Orton too. You know, good. Amazes me that he's become of the absolute most DULL competitors in the company today. He's right there will Del Rio in terms of me not giving a fuck about anything he does. Yeah, he has talent, but I just don't care. There is absolutely nothing about him that makes me want to sit through anything he does any more. I keep hearing that he's gonna return as a heel when he returns from whatever injury he's suffering from atm. I hope he comes back with some character too, because right now he's just wasting away and its kind of a shame.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just rewatched HHH/Jericho LMS. Easily Jericho's best performance as a face, and one of his best matches in general. DAT FUCKING ENDING~! :mark: :mark: How many snowflakes do ya'll have it at? Or if you don't use snowflakes, what're your thoughts on the match it's self?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****3/4 for that LMS match. Awesome, awesome stuff. Yet still only the second best match of the year! Probably the second best Trips match ever too. And likely the greatest Jericho match. Can't think of anything else from Jericho that would be better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*******

Seriously, it's one of my favorite matches ever and I believe it has some of the GOAT psychology in it. No other last man standing will ever TOUCH this one imo , including the likes of Cena/Umaga. Actually agree atm that it's Hunter's second best match ever :lol

Actually, I ALWAYS change my mind on his top three. Royal Rumble 2000, Fully Loaded 2000, and Wrestlemania XX are all there at the Five Star mark (after deducting NWO 01 and SS 02 on rewatches and determining that they don't really compare at all) for me. 

1. vs Cactus Jack RR 00
2. vs Chris Jericho FL 00
3. vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit WM XX

4. W/Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho RAW 01
5. vs Undertaker WM XXVII
6. vs Batista VEN 05

My Hunter matches ***** 3/4+*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Trips in 2000 =


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Trips in 2000 = BEATEN BY THE BROOKLYN BRAWLER 8*D


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TRIPS


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Trips in 2000 =


Austin in 2001 was better :austin


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Out of my 27 WWE ***** 3/4+* matches, Austin in 01 is in four of them. That shouldn't even be possible, how the fuck did he manage to do that ? :lol

I made a list of ALL the matches I have rated at ***** 1/2* and I need to rank them now, should take me anywhere from 4-8 years. Doing this so maybe I can post a rough draft of my top 200 matches ever if I can make it that far


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Austin V HHH NWO ****
Austin V Rock wm 17 *****
Austin HHH V Jericho Beniot Raw ****1/2
Austin V Beniot SD ****1/2
Austin V Undertaker JD ****
Austin V Angle SS ****3/4
Austin V Angle UF ****

LOOK AT IT! IN JUST ONE YEAR!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Austin in 2001 was better :austin


He's lucky Trips was injured :side:

And THE GAME was in 2 of those top matches of 2001...

TRIPS in 2000:

vs Foley RR *****
w/Saturn/Pac/Malenko/Benoit vs Foley/Rock/Rikishi/Sexay/Taylor Raw ****
vs Foley HIAC ****1/2
vs three jobbers WM ***1/2
w/Benoit vs Jericho/Rock ****
vs Rock Backlash ****
vs Rock Iron Man ****1/2
vs Jericho LMS ****3/4

probs some others and granted I haven't seen some of these in like 10 years but you get the idea.

edit not to mention he made TAKA look LEGIT.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT NO MERCY !

***** 1/4* Match against Benoit there


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Knew I was forgetting one. Thanks. Oh, and the screwjob match vs Jericho on Raw OWNS, too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NM with Benoit isn't that good imo. Used to love it, but really just didn't hold up at all on a rewatch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

H's inverted suplex in that match :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Still say their gold standard is the "pick your poison" match a few weeks before Wrestlemania XXI. Benoit is up there with the best opponents Trips has ever had, they have this insane chemistry in the ring.

Love their Gold Rush match too. Shame that they'll never be released on DVD , which pisses me off A-FUCKING-LOT.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Finished HBK/Mankind IYH:Mind Games 1996 ****.

Really an extended brawl than wrestling match. Throughout, I never knew what was going to happen next which was refreshing. A page back I commented on the stiff shots from Michaels and was going to count that against the match. While Mick had and would have worst shit done to him, it came off as unprofessional. Showstopper said that they were actually planned to mock his outburst on Vader at Summerslam, so I see it as making the match better. The table spot got a legit "Holy Shit" out of me.

More random matches and stars

Bret "Hitman" Hart vs Hakushi In Your House 1 1995 ****
"Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs Goldust Hollywood Backlot Brawl Wrestlemania 12 1996 ***
CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy TLC for World Heavyweight Championship Summerslam 2009 ****1/2
Undertaker vs Mankind Hell in a Cell King of the Ring 1998 ****1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched the TLC match from the other night because someone posted the youtube link in another thread. My God. I don't think I could get tired of watching that match. Utter chaos, and everything seemed timed to perfection. The entire match was incredible, but I particularly enjoy the sequence that began with Reigns spearing Kane through the barricade -> Reigns and Rollins celebrating to the point where they almost lost the match because they were unaware that Ambrose was selling the No Lock like crazy and was on the verge of tapping -> Bryan lets Ambrose go and puts Rollins in the No Lock -> Reigns makes the save and Bryan reverses a back suplex into No Lock -> Ambrose/Rollins make the save and set Bryan up for a BRAINBUSTAAAHHHHH on the chair -> Bryan reverses and kicks the ever-living shit out of both of them -> Ambrose stops the onslaught -> Rollins hits the BLACKOUT on Bryan onto the chair. That was literally a fucking awesome sequence.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

**** minimum.

Story telling, psychology, entertainment all top notch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ah, it was you who posted it in The Shield thread. Already repped you, but thanks again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Had the PPV downloaded for a few days now, never watched any of it due to ROB VAN DAM being my top priority at the moment. Invasion 2001 vs Jeff Hardy is such a fucking fun match, and it gets points for half of it's commentary being included in the "Don't Try This At Home" vids. Watching an old personal favorite of mine now, Jericho-RVD from KOTR 2002.

RVD made BROCK look awesome. He gets added to the list of guys who made BROCK look like the biggest beast in WWE history (HE IS) . Hogan, Taker, and Rock get a ton of credit for putting Brock over in dominating fashion, but RVD should get a ton of credit for Brock's early success as well. Their KOTR 2002 match together is short, but very sweet. Never saw their Vengeance match, might check it out somewhere down the line when I go on another BROCK binge.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm 90 percent convinced that if Brock was here from 2002 to present, that he'd be in the GOAT (in-ring anyways) discussion by now, or atleast GOAT in WWE. Dude is a fucking BEAST, and has a better match catalog than a ton of guys who have been in the business for 10-15 years, despite working two full time years in the WWE. 

Doesn't work a match in 8 years ; has one of the greatest matches of all time :brock

Shits ALL OVER Shawn's comeback match, and Shawn was only gone for four years :lol


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Wasn't it only 5 years? Unless we're talking WWE only.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like the Vengeance Brock/RVD match, more than KOTR. ***1/4 for it.

Hogan/Lesnar is fucking awesome. Re-watched it a few months ago for the first time since... fuck knows when. Perhaps underrated as an actual match as when people bring it up they just talk about how Hogan put over Lesnar. ***1/2 for it I think I gave it.

RVD/Hardy Invasion is insanely fun. Shame their SS ladder match was a fucking disaster and up there as one of the worst ladder matches in company history.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF No Way Out 2001 - Intercontinental Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. X-Pac*

Wall-to-wall action, Non-stop action from bell-to-bell. This one of the better total spotfests matches in the WWF, reminded me of the late 90's stuff in WCW. They built the pace of the match, played off stuff with Benoit & Eddie teaming up and then that disintegrating and then epic Benoit vs. Eddie shit, X-Pac and Eddie both wanting revenge on Jericho, just a bunch of great stories. And a ton of amazing nearfalls. ****


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I only found that Brock/RVD KOTR match to be decent. My enjoyment of RVD isn't huge like it was years ago.

Shame here some people don't own the Lesnar Blu-Ray with the sweet extras on it. There is a Flair Raw match against Brock in '02 that rules.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How were Lesnar's matches in Japan? Haven't seen any of them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gave Hogan/Lesnar the EXACT same rating. Fucking AWESOME match, and the fact that BROCK got that great of a match out of Hogan despite it having no build in TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING TWO blows my god damned mind.

I'm talking strictly WWE, in which Brock wrestled approx. 86 televised/PPV matches (including the two in 2012). IIRC he has like 12-13 *****+* matches, which would probably mean that he has the highest percentage of his matches being awesome than anybody else in company history. Seriously, the only BAD Lesnar match I can think of is his match vs Goldberg, which is the GOAT in terms of comedy.

DUDE FUCKING OWNS. :brock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> How were Lesnar's matches in Japan? Haven't seen any of them.


Nothing worth seeing. The Angle match was disappointing.

As for Hogan in 02... I actually quite liked his run for the most part. Avoid the HHH PPV match and he did some good stuff all things considered.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> How were Lesnar's matches in Japan? Haven't seen any of them.


Do yourself a favor, don't bother.

Brock seem to just go threw the motions most of his time there. Remembering seeing Lesnar vs. Angle and it wasn't half as fun as their WWE matches.

EDIT: FC beat me to it. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That match with HHH might be my least favorite HHH match of all time. Trips gets DAT WIN BACK in a Smackdown match featured on the Unreleased Collectors series, so it's all good. What a terrible match though.

In comparison to what I said about Brock ; let's look at a guy who many consider to be one of the best workers today in Dolph Ziggler. The guy has been working on and off with the WWE since like 2006 (three times as long as Lesnar) , and I have less than five of his matches at *****+*. Honestly seems like half of Lesnar's matches are atleast ****+*, with the rest of them being squashes :lol .


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> w/Saturn/Pac/Malenko/Benoit vs Foley/Rock/Rikishi/Sexay/Taylor Raw ****


This match is so awesome. I wish WWE could put something like this together again. God knows they have the perfect talent at their disposal currently.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, but Lesnar was immediately thrust into the main event against people like Benoit and Angle, who, at the time, was putting on ****+ matches all the time. Ziggler has been midcard/upper midcard for his entire career and, aside from working with Bryan, hasn't had the luxury of working with the calibur of people that Lesnar did. Not taking anything away from Lesnar - the guy is fucking incredible - but it's a little unfair to compare their respective match resumes.

edit Agreed. It's a forgotten gem.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

-Mystery- said:


> This match is so awesome. I wish WWE could put something like this together again. God knows they have the perfect talent at their disposal currently.


Raw 04 has an even better 8 man tag:

Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin v HHH, Ric Flair, Randy Orton & Batista - RAW, 4/12/04

:mark: Totally fucking awesome.

Agreed with Reindeer Killer, not really fair to compare Lesnar and Ziggler. Lesnar spent 2 years working the absolute BEST in main event matches. Ziggler started off as Kerwin White's manager then upgraded to male cheerleader :lmao.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

3 Stages of Hell TIME!!!!, I hope this still holds up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed with the Evolution tag being better than the 00 tag, although both are fucking AWESOME.

I don't know about not being able to compare DOLPH and BROCK tbh. I understand that Brock worked with some GREAT workers over his tenure, but the fact that he wrestled in these matches despite this being his ROOKIE year in the WWE blows my mind. Compare Brock's first year to say... RYBACK's first year (Ryback has actually been in the business much longer than Lesnar). Both worked a Hell in a Cell match with the best worker in the comapny, Lesnar held his own, while Ryback sucked dick. HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DOING THOSE THINGS.

In all fairness, DOLPH has worked 18 more PPV matches than BROCK (don't know how many of them have been Spirit Squad matches ; probably like 5) , and Brock still blows him out of the water.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn I need to watch the Evolution tag. Drawing a huge blank.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just thought about this ; Has there been anybody in history who fucked up their own mega-push as bad as Rob Van Dam did ? 

I mean, the guy pinned Cena when NOBODY else was doing it, he became the face of WWE's newest brand whilst at the same time winning the WWE Championship, and he was SUPER fucking over. Could have been a top guy for a few more years but NOPE, him and Sabu had the FUCK IT ALL UP with their love for drugs :lol

Fuck this DVD is so much better than anything I've watched lately


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Yeah, I don't remember too much about that tag either. I might even see that later on.

Btw, I'm interested in watching some old Raw shows. Is Raw "The Beginning": The Best of Seasons 1 & 2 worth picking up for that sort of thing? It's cheap now but I'm wondering how good it is with seeing a shitload of Doink on it? :hmm:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Steiner Bros. vs Money Inc Steel Cage for Tag Team Championship Raw 8/22/93 ****1/2

Absolute rollercoaster ride of a match. Literally on the edge of my seat whenever the Steiners made it to the top of the cage and yelled at my laptop when Money Inc started climbing waiting for the Steiners to take them down. Liked that JR and Monsoon said the tag match was unorthodox due to regular tag team rules not applying here.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF No Way Out 2001 - 3 Stages of Hell: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H*

Before i get to the match i just wanna say the video package before the match might be the greatest package of all time, well after the WM-Seven one. And the build to this has been FUCKIN' great with the zero tolerance stuff which i think was underappreciated if you think about it, YEAH! this was a blood feud but if WWF/E would of booked HHH/Austin just to kill each other every week for 3/4 months fans would of gotten tired of that so why not do the "If HHH provokes Austin he gets suspended for 6 months, and if Austin provokes HHH he loses his WWF title match @ WM. And having them tease that for a month was great." But that's just me. Okay back to the match. Yeah this still holds up to this day, The match is filled with all the things that make a great match intensity, violence, hatred, story-telling, emotion, psychology ect. But the thing that really sticks out in my mind was the finish and how YES! HHH got the pin but both his shoulders were down too and it made him look like he got lucky and won it, as Lawler says that it’s not fair to say either guy really won. Just an absolute WAR with these two beating the living hell out of each other and I love every minute of it. *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AlwaysSunny For AIW said:


> Yeah, I don't remember too much about that tag either. I might even see that later on.
> 
> Btw, I'm interested in watching some old Raw shows. Is Raw "The Beginning": The Best of Seasons 1 & 2 worth picking up for that sort of thing? It's cheap now but I'm wondering how good it is with seeing a shitload of Doink on it? :hmm:


Good set, really fun, and most of the Doink on it is the AWESOME Doink aka heel Doink aka Matt Bourne. 

There are plenty of awesome tags from Raw 04 that people need to watch . Evolution Vs any combination of Jericho, Benoit, Foley, HBK, Shelton, Edge etc usually always turned out great. There's a 6 man elimination tag I adore too. Oh and TAJIRI gets a chance to shine in at least one of them as well. Amazing how far ahead of 03 Raw 04 was :mark:. Trips was capable of working again, Batista and Orton were getting better all the time, Flair was in his ubercrazyoldman stage, and the likes of Edge, Benoit, Jericho, Shelton and others were getting big pushed and having career years, while HBK was also there tagging along for the ride doing good shit, and every now and then Foley would show up too :mark:.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah, that Raw: The Beginning is a really good purchase. Full of great matches and clips.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Vader13 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn...-h-s-challenge-raw-3-17-03_sport#.UNEsSeRlz6c
> 
> that's the promo in question.


And at wrestle-ma-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-ania-O-O-O! :lmao :lmao :lmao

I lost it worse than HHH in that segment when it got to that part. "Down there.... in the COCKCOCKCOCKCOCK-COCKLES of your heart.... you are WORRIED!" CORNBREAD-DAMMIT-CORNBREAD!



FuckChristmas said:


> Watched Taker/Orton HIAC this morning since that's where the disc was up to after my attempted re-watch of HHH/Batista yesterday (which didn't go well lol). Unlike HHH/Batista, I was in the mood for watching it and I still fucking loved it. I miss that Orton too. You know, good. Amazes me that he's become of the absolute most DULL competitors in the company today. He's right there will Del Rio in terms of me not giving a fuck about anything he does. Yeah, he has talent, but I just don't care. There is absolutely nothing about him that makes me want to sit through anything he does any more. I keep hearing that he's gonna return as a heel when he returns from whatever injury he's suffering from atm. I hope he comes back with some character too, because right now he's just wasting away and its kind of a shame.


I heard Orton wont return until he turns heel so that's good news. Just wish he would grow his hair back. Orton today almost feels like a different person compared to old Orton.



Best In The North Pole said:


> Still say their gold standard is the "pick your poison" match a few weeks before Wrestlemania XXI. Benoit is up there with the best opponents Trips has ever had, they have this insane chemistry in the ring.
> 
> Love their Gold Rush match too. Shame that they'll never be released on DVD , which pisses me off A-FUCKING-LOT.


Pick Your Poison fucking rules! But yeah, sucks that they'll never put it on any DVD. It's such an obscure match, though. So chances are slim even if a miracle happened where the police claimed that Benoit is innocent and WWE stopped pretending that he never existed. (oh how I wish that would happen at one point)

Only thing I prefer about their Gold Rush match is Benoit wearing those awesome red tights (random lol) and he makes Trips TAP OUT again!



Best In The North Pole said:


> I just thought about this ; Has there been anybody in history who fucked up their own mega-push as bad as Rob Van Dam did ?
> 
> I mean, the guy pinned Cena when NOBODY else was doing it, he became the face of WWE's newest brand whilst at the same time winning the WWE Championship, and he was SUPER fucking over. Could have been a top guy for a few more years but NOPE, him and Sabu had the FUCK IT ALL UP with their love for drugs :lol
> 
> Fuck this DVD is so much better than anything I've watched lately


It sucks really. He had so much potential to be a main event player and when the opportunity came, he fucked it up.


----------



## jacobdaniel (Jun 20, 2011)

*Raw is War - December 7, 1998*

I just finished watching this episode on WWE Classics On Demand and have a question. Lawler and Cole are doing commentary for the entire episode, however, during the camera shots where you can actually see the announce booth, it's the King and JR that are sitting there. Anyone know why Lawler and Cole are doing voice over commentary?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Undertaker Vs Mankind - Survivor Series 1996

Referred to as the "forgotten match" from their series, and for good reason because even I forgot they wrestled at this event!

Paul Bearer is stick inside a cage, and if Undertaker wins he gets Paul or something. I think that's how it goes anyway.

Mankind really has had Undertaker's number since debuting earlier in the year, and its caused Undertaker to evolve and adapt. We see it a lot here as he pulls out some "TECHNICALS" moves in order to perhaps throw Mankind off his game by doing something he wouldn't expect. We also see Undertaker take a page out of HBK's book by targeting the hand, hoping to disable the Mandible Claw!

Undertaker must have run out of black hair dye around this time because he's completely GINGER lol.

Nice back and forth brawling between the two. Undertaker even BITES the hand of Mankind to make sure the Mandible Claw can't be used! Then Mankind catches Undertaker in a pretty fucking sweet Piledriver.

Foley is fucking insane with some of the "small" bumps he takes, where he takes basic bumps and somehow makes them worse by splattering on the floor more than anyone else would, or by smashing his head on something lol.

Even Undertaker bumps a little more than usual, and its great to hear Paul Bearer screaming in pure joy when Undertaker gets hurt lol.

The hand of Mankind seems to be damaged from Undertaker targeting it, so Mankind resorts to using a weapon in his hand instead, which the referee seems completely oblivious to .

TOMBSTONE OUT OF NOWHERE! Undertaker gets the win, and as a result he gets Paul Bearer until TERRY GORDY shows up to make the save. Undertaker gets a win over Mankind, but doesn't get the revenge he wants.

Good match. Not their best PPV outing, in fact based on the quality of most of their matches its probably the second worst PPV match they had, but its not bad at all and so far above the horrible Boiler Room Brawl match .

Rating: ***1/2


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> I just thought about this ; Has there been anybody in history who fucked up their own mega-push as bad as Rob Van Dam did ?
> 
> I mean, the guy pinned Cena when NOBODY else was doing it, he became the face of WWE's newest brand whilst at the same time winning the WWE Championship, and he was SUPER fucking over. Could have been a top guy for a few more years but NOPE, him and Sabu had the FUCK IT ALL UP with their love for drugs :lol
> 
> Fuck this DVD is so much better than anything I've watched lately


RVD is one of my favorites. All those years he spent toiling and being held down and he fucks it up not even two months after winning the strap. That's some shameful shit. His DVD is awesome too. The matches with Sabu and the match with Bam Bam are amazing. Its one of my favorite DVDs.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Almost finished the DVD now, only two more left and they would happen to be extra matches on the disc that are on here for some reason or another. SUPER FUNTASTIC DVD is all I gotta say about this one ; six hours seemed to fly by like NOTHING when watching this. Throw some STARZ! out there later.

ONE MORE DVD TO FINISH BEFORE CHRISTMAS. ECW Unreleased Vol 1. Oh dear.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ Gingertaker. I always laugh at him whenever he appears in ginger hair color. The most recent one has to be Wrestlemania 20. He looked so damn ginger there. For some reason, on that week's Smackdown, they had him wear that ABA bandanna which looked totally out of place with his Deadman outfit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What's the match when Foley gets knocked off the apron and flies headfirst into the announce table? :lmao


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> How were Lesnar's matches in Japan? Haven't seen any of them.


Shite. The only good match was with Giant Bernard:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> What's the match when Foley gets knocked off the apron and flies headfirst into the announce table? :lmao


Revenge of the Taker .


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Best In The North Pole said:


> ONE MORE DVD TO FINISH BEFORE CHRISTMAS. ECW Unreleased Vol 1. Oh dear.


That was one of my favorites. Sabu & Rob Van Dam vs. Hayabusa & Jinsei Shinzaki, Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn, Van Dam and Sabu vs. The Eliminators? the set has some of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody else here think Mil Mascaras is a piece of shit besides me ? :lol

Seriously, what a fucking ego-maniac. For people who criticize the likes of Trips, Hogan, and sometimes even Taker, just watch a Mascaras match. He fucking no sells for everybody, and even in his Hall of Fame speech seemed like an egotistical self centered douchebag.

EDIT : YAY, I actually have another good DVD to watch ? Christmas is coming early motherfuckers !


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah, Mascaras is the worst.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mascaras looked like an excellent wrestler in the 70s. He was no-selly later on, which is irking. His actual explanation for it was something like 'they didn't hit me hard enough. I wont sell if you don't connect.' Which is actually really awesome because he's encouraging his opponents to work stiffer, but....it doesn't help when they won't and he's shrugging everything off and the match is hard to watch. What did he say in the HOF speech? I haven't seen on since......probably Flair's.

I don't get why people criticize Taker's ego. Where is evidence of HIM of all people being egotistical?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What should I watch first? Ric Flair and the Four Horseman or The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NO! said:


> That was one of my favorites. Sabu & Rob Van Dam vs. Hayabusa & Jinsei Shinzaki, Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn, Van Dam and Sabu vs. The Eliminators? the set has some of my favorite matches ever.





Best In The North Pole said:


> Anybody else here think Mil Mascaras is a piece of shit besides me ? :lol
> 
> Seriously, what a fucking ego-maniac. For people who criticize the likes of Trips, Hogan, and sometimes even Taker, just watch a Mascaras match. He fucking no sells for everybody, and even in his Hall of Fame speech seemed like an egotistical self centered douchebag.
> 
> EDIT : YAY, I actually have another good DVD to watch ? Christmas is coming early motherfuckers !





JoeRulz said:


> Yeah, Mascaras is the worst.





Yeah1993 said:


> Mascaras looked like an excellent wrestler in the 70s. He was no-selly later on, which is irking. His actual explanation for it was something like 'they didn't hit me hard enough. I wont sell if you don't connect.' Which is actually really awesome because he's encouraging his opponents to work stiffer, but....it doesn't help when they won't and he's shrugging everything off and the match is hard to watch. What did he say in the HOF speech? I haven't seen on since......probably Flair's.
> 
> I don't get why people criticize Taker's ego. Where is evidence of HIM of all people being egotistical?


I swear to whatever higher power is out there that this entire conversation here has happened already. I remember reading it. :|



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What should I watch first? Ric Flair and the Four Horseman or The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection?


Ultimate Flair! One of the greatest sets ever produced. Though if you are in the mood for a documentary, go with the Horsemen set .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Mascaras looked like an excellent wrestler in the 70s. He was no-selly later on, which is irking. His actual explanation for it was something like 'they didn't hit me hard enough. I wont sell if you don't connect.' Which is actually really awesome because he's encouraging his opponents to work stiffer, but....it doesn't help when they won't and he's shrugging everything off and the match is hard to watch. What did he say in the HOF speech? I haven't seen on since......probably Flair's.
> 
> I don't get why people criticize Taker's ego. Where is evidence of HIM of all people being egotistical?


The only drawback to lucha seems to be those AWFUL egos that grow on some of them. They're treated like gods by the fans so they repay them by being twats in the ring. I don't understand it.

I don't get it either. The only Undertaker ego trip I can think of is when he gave Punk crap for not "dressing" like a World Champ. Which I'm sure was legit...? Regardless, that's all I got. Only other stories I hear is how respected the man is. You respect him, he'll respect you sort of deal.



FuckChristmas said:


> RVD/Hardy Invasion is insanely fun. Shame their SS ladder match was a fucking disaster and up there as one of the worst ladder matches in company history.


I love both of them.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gonna start the Batista/Taker series tonight now that I'm off for a month. 

Got the '98-'02 Rumble set as well and watched '98 today. Chainsaw Charlie fucking owned. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of the series, I'm now at the Eddie Guerrero tribute show which not only means that I'll no longer see the awesomeness of Eddie () but also that I'll start the Orton/Cena series right here since that's their first match together in WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RUMBLE '98~! aka the PPV I rented the most as a child.

I've seen Luna die from being on the back of Vader for a Vader Bomb, LUCHA MINIS with Sunny as Ref and King making 100 insulting comments, Ken Shamrock win the Intercontinental Championship clean, but get screwed via the ref wanting to feel him up and finding BRASS KNUCKS, Austin being a marked man, Foley entertering the rumble under all 3 personalities, Tom Brandi getting chucked out in 3 seconds, & Undertaker being burned alive in a casket more times than I care to count.

:mark:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

How :mark: was that Punk promo from Smackdown? Same with his promo with Flair on RAW. Just gets me that much more excited for the Rock/Punk feud, if this is the quality of mic work we'll be getting. Shame that that worthless Ryback still has to be involved, we could be getting January 7th for some solid individual Rock/Punk time as well, instead of just two weeks. Meh, I'll take what I can get.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Foley/Funk beating the shit out of each other for the first x minutes of that Rumble was hilarious.

edit - That opener with Vader/Goldust was awesome. The crowd was on fire that night. Luna got destroyed.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

It's all about AUSTIN


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> How :mark: was that Punk promo from Smackdown? Same with his promo with Flair on RAW. Just gets me that much more excited for the Rock/Punk feud, if this is the quality of mic work we'll be getting. Shame that that worthless Ryback still has to be involved, we could be getting January 7th for some solid individual Rock/Punk time as well, instead of just two weeks. Meh, I'll take what I can get.


Yeah Punk killed it this week with promos. Shame Rock will likely just be his usual terrible self during the feud with his lame 5 year old insults that don't make sense. Wonder how he'll top Kung Pow Bitch as one of the lamest and least sense making insults of all time.

RR 98... not a big fan of the event overall. Only like the casket match. RR match starts off great with Funk and Foley trying to kill each other, but the shitty roster they had at the time kinda killed the match. Plus the "Austin is a targeted man" deal was laughable. His music hits, everyone turns and faces the entrance way. Austin sneaks in from behind, eliminates Mero and starts going after someone else. Everyone else turns around by this point and sees Austin... and then completely fucking ignores him and go back to the basic RR stuff of attacking random people for a while then moving on to someone else .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The mini's match from that show was actually really entertaining. I could only remember one of their names but it was actually really fun. Lawler may have helped that. :side:

Foley/Funk stuff in '98 was so awesome. Their dumpster match with NAO is the first match I ever watched.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Someone find a link to the minis match from Rumble '98. NOW


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rock's Boston Tea Party was pretty hilarious, though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Someone find a link to the minis match from Rumble '98. NOW


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Rock's Boston Tea Party was pretty hilarious, though.












It really, REALLY wasn't. At all. 99.9% of Rock's stuff isn't funny. I genuinely do not understand how people find it to be funny. Most of his jokes and insults really do sound like a 5 year old came up with them.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

"DING DING DING, YEAH, TIME TO GET YOUR ASS WHOOPED" was hilarious, I'm sorry.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao

cal is so negative about rocky


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm only negative about The Rock when he does shitty stuff. Unfortunately that's almost all the time .

I found it funny when he mocked Big Show's hair cut in 2000. "Somebody got a haircut"

And some of his heel work in 03 was humorous .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Every Rock promo this year was TERRIBLE.

I marked for everything Cena did against the twat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Every Rock promo this year was TERRIBLE.


And yet some people were surprised by this. Which confused the hell out of me. Well it didn't, because some people think he's like some awesome promo cutter. THAT confuses me. 

What was I talking about? Oh, nothing else. In that case, THE ROCK FUCKING SUCKS. And he has an obsession with other men's asses.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fuck y'all! THE ROCK IS AWESOME.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rock's concert was pretty funny.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Fuck y'all! THE ROCK IS AWESOME.


Rumble 2013 - THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

I enjoyed Rock during his prime. I liked his 2011 return on Valentine's Day. Those aside, I've struggled to care about anything else. Who thinks boots 2 asses or fruity pebbles are good chants/insults?

I bring it...via satellite. Now that's a burn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fruity Pebbles was fucking hilarious. Since then, I've constantly referred to Cena as simply "fruit" because it suits him with those goofy shirts he always wears. Boots 2 Asses was goofy and proof of how great The Rock is. Takes some of the stupidest sayings and turns them into catchphrases that sell t-shirts. One of Rock's insults that I will not defend however is "popcorn fart" which he repeatedly used in his sporadic appearances after he stopped being a full-timer. He called Coachman that but thankfully, the insult was completely forgotten about after two or so weeks.

The thing about The Rock is his charisma. He can say anything and it catches on with fans, that's how good he is at controlling a crowd. One more thing, though, just because his material is stupid and childish that doesn't mean he can't cut a good promo. He's damn good at it and he has all the tools to be a great mic workers, it's just his material and catchphrase overload wont sit well with everyone even if it does with _most_ people. For good promos from this year, you can check out the one that took place on the go home show for WM28. Both him and Cena delivered on why they needed to win the match and how important it was to them. They were also more serious and no more smiles and fruity pebbles. Too bad Cena's stupid ass character ruined it the night after with that horrible "I lost but so what?" promo.

And "I Bring It Via Satellite" was one of Cena's best insults in the feud. Absolutely hilarious even if his dumb ass haters were still raging because they refuse to give him any credit whatsoever. Cena haters are proof of why most smarks are fucking idiots.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Rock promos are usually hit & miss.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fruity Pebbles is so not an insult. Even if fans were chanting it at me. I'd be like Cena. Smile, chuckle, and move on. How could that be insulting? Cena even was on a box of Fruity Pebbles following it.

Kung-Pow bitch. How...how is that even...I can't even form a sentence.

Don't think anyone will argue or could argue the presence Rocky has. It's evident. Only some things he says are bad. If he's not on cocaine, then I'm surprised. Especially at Backlash '03. Guy was FUCKED up. :hmm:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rock's return promo in 2011 felt huge, was huge, and was a really fun promo that I'd be lying if I said I haven't gone back and watched a couple of times.

But almost everything since then has been corny, cheesy, overacting, false 'epic', a poor attempt at comedy, or just straight up BAD. I enjoyed him 'what the fuck'ing at the John Cena garden gnome (what the fuck? indeed, btw), but his loud, higher voice, exaggerated facials promos get old really quickly. His cool low voice 98-00 promos are where the shit be at.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't take his promos now. I usually fast forward them when I want to relive a RAW from late last year or this year.

The Rock: This Is Your Life = great
Promos about Boston's history = gtfo

I've watched the Rock/Foley promo too many times to count. YOU CUT THE ROCK OFF AT SECOND BASE. Oh, that's fun stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock's still got it. This promo was epic even if it was not on Raw and I think I've watched it at least 20 times.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I still love the one where he asks Michael Cole if he is 'a little cum se cum sa'.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock's rant on the mic during the Foley/Game match the night after Summerslam '99 brings the goods too. Probably b/c it bordered on being a shoot. And Cole took more abuse.

Buries both Billy Gunn & Gangrel :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I guess I really was wrong about Flair being a million times better than Rock on the microphone. The way he delivered that intensity like ONLY HE CAN (because he IS THE GOAT and you better not doubt it) really outdid any passion that Flair conveyed in his promos. I think what elevates Rock over the likes of Flair & Foley on the microphone is his ability to come up with such intense promos in his words, like when he called Cena a "wonder woman transvestite" and proceeded to have an epileptic seizure whilst making various sound effects.

Maybe.... Maybe we're all wrong. Maybe Rocky IS the GOAT, and that promo sure helped convince me that his mic skills are in no way shape or form immature in the slightest. Watching Rock talk about Fruity Pebbles and sticking his foot up another man's rectal cavity truly feels like I'm watching Jordan take off from the free throw line, or watching Pele' take that penalty kick.

Truly, we are all witnesses to the undisputed GOAT.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Rock says silly stuff that's funny the first time you hear it because its ridiculous but then you think....why did I find that funny?


I still laugh at some of his old jokes. The one about Undertaker's "mickey mouse" tattoos and making fun of Kane's "voice box" were pretty good. 


However he was shit in his 2011 promos. They were funny at first then I didn't really understand why they were funny. I do like his Survivor Series 2011 promo. 


His style is a mixture of intensity and stand up comedy. it works for him but I will forever be pissed because his scripted promos led to everyone having scripts now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock's promo in Boston on Billy Gunn back in like '99 was fucking awesome. He incorporated NOMAR~! Although I'm under the impression most people in this thread don't know who Nomar Garciaparra is. :argh:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Five Second Review : Rob Van Dam ; One of a Kind (2 Disc Set)*

I love that there's no doc on this set since I don't have to waste any time talking about what I thought about the doc and actually rating it, because I find talking about documentaries to be quite boring and tedious as opposed to match comps where I can just throw STARZ out there and tell you how I felt about the DVD as a whole. First of all I should address the format of the DVD ; RVD talks about something, there's a match, RVD talks about something else, there's a match. I really like this format because he spends 3-4 minutes talking between each match and we get a fair amount of background knowledge, while not eating too much time up.

The extras are really diverse and something that I feel is missing from alot of sets nowadays. We have various confidential features, a look at RVD's singlets and who makes them, RVD touring JAKKS to look at some action figures (well known geek and action figure collector himself) , as well as various introductory vignettes, promos, and the like. Really diverse selection here, and while some might say it's completely unnecessary, I seem to enjoy it alot. We get three extra matches that just so happen to be IMO the weakest three of the entire set, but I think that's a perfect segway to dive in and take a look at some STARZ! 

Disc One

Robby V vs Scotty Flamingo (WCW 1993) : ****

Rob Van Dam vs Axl Rotten (ECW 1995) : *** ½*

Rob Van Dam vs Sabu (Hardcore Heaven 1996) : *****

Rob Van Dam & Sabu vs The Eliminators (Crossing the Line 1997) : **** *

Rob Van Dam vs Lance Storm (Barely Legal 1997) : *** ¾*

Rob Van Dam vs Jeff Hardy (RAW 1997) : *AWESOME SQUASH*

Rob Van Dam vs Tommy Dreamer (November to Remember 1997) : *****

Rob Van Dam vs Bam Bam Bigelow (ECW 1998) : *****

Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn (Living Dangerouly 1999) : ***** 1/2*

Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn ( Guilty as Charged 2001) : **** 1/2*

Disc Two

Rob Van Dam vs Jeff Hardy (Invasion 2001) : **** ½*

Rob Van Dam vs Chris Jericho (King of the Ring 2002) : **** ¾*

Rob Van Dam vs Christian (Ladder ; RAW 2003) : **** ½*

EXTRAS

Rob Van Dam vs Balls Mahoney (Anarchy Rulz 99) : ****

Rob Van Dam vs Sabu (Hostile City Showdown 96) : *** ½*

Robbie V vs Pat Rose (WCW 1993) : ** 1/4*

OH FUCK YEAH. The name of the game on this DVD is FUN , and it shows through one of the funnest match listings I've sat through in a really long time. Most of the ECW stuff is insanely polarizing, and I could see somebody rating a ton of it *** to ******, honestly. I know RVD's stuff in ECW can look extremely choreographed at times, and to be honest it takes a little bit of the magic away for me that others may see in it, but I'm not willing to completely dismiss the matches as awful.... Because they're actually pretty awesome. On disc one we see mostly REALLY FUN ECW style crazy Van Dam matches, such as his matches with Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, Axl Rotten, and Lance Storm. These feature a ton of spots and a ton of nearfalls in nearly all of them, and while they may not hold up to a ton of people, personally I enjoy them from time to time.

The BEST matches and the legitimately fun AND great ones come once we hot the Bam Bam / Jerry Lynn matches. The Living Dangerously match is probably a top 3 ECW match EVER with Lynn and Van Dam going balls to the wall and the fans wanting more and more. Guilty as Charged is awesome in it's own right as well as being historic for being the very last original ECW PPV match. The Bam Bam match is great to see two completely styles clash and mix together to create something awesome. The extra ECW matches are still fun, but the quality is pretty MEH as far as the Balls Mahoney and second Sabu matches go (even though Styles claims it's the greatest match he's seen from either man, yeah right). We also get a pair of WCW matches that are really just showcases for the young Van Dam to show his impressive and unique moveset on TV (think ; every single Antonio Cesaro PPV match :lol ). STILL FUN FUN FUN 

Once we get to the WWF/WWE matches , we really start to get nonstop fun matches, but these matches also happen to be great at the same time. We get a pair of Jeff Hardy matches, one being a SQUASH (YAY JEFF GETTING SQUASHED) and the other being the insanely fun Hardy-RVD Invasion matchup with one of the ballsiest bumps I've ever seen from Jeff. The Christian match is another Van Dam spotfest, but a great one between a fantastic worker like Christian and a ballsy motherfucker like RVD. My favorite of disc two would be the KOTR match vs Y2J, in which the SPOTZ are toned down and focused more on actual wrestling... Perhaps the best pure "wrestling match" in the entire set... NAH RVD-LYNN OWNS MORE.

Most importantly ... THERE'S NO KAMALA OR NWO MATCHES ON THIS ONE (automatically driving it up about 78 points in my book ). Seriously, you won't find a single BAD or non enjoyable match on this set, but wrestling purists be warned.... You aren't getting many mat classics here. You get what you pay for, and if you love a good ol fashioned slobberknocker with some great moves and awesome atmosphere, then this is the DVD for you. If you aren't a fan of RVD's style... Then why the fuck would you buy the DVD ? :lol 

*7.5/10*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I agree with the notion that Rock in 1998-2000 when he had the deeper voice during promos was far better than what he's done since. And since his return promo, most have been forgettable. I did however enjoy the first Boston promo when he threw Cena's stuff in the water, and when he went back and fourth with that kid that played Cena on the lead-up to WM27. I also thought The Rock concert was pretty good as well. The facebook promo was great but mainly for Rock completely owning Cena and not necessarily for the laughs. Frankly that's all I care to remember right now.

Rock's promo on Billy Gunn in 1999 with the "prayer to God" is still my favorite Rock promo of all time... specifically the prayer part. I always laugh my ass off watching that and may be the funniest WWE promo imo. IMO it also shows how much Rock had deteriorated when he did the same thing on Cena and I didn't find it anywhere near as good and only laughed a little bit. Never understood the appeal of "Boots 2 Asses"... but then again that's a testament to just how charismatic Rock is... that he can get THAT to be a fucking catchphrase, on a t-shirt, and chanted everywhere.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Clark Griswold said:


> Rock's promo in Boston on Billy Gunn back in like '99 was fucking awesome. He incorporated NOMAR~! Although I'm under the impression most people in this thread don't know who Nomar Garciaparra is. :argh:


Don't worry brye....you aren't the only one in this thread that watches the MLB or espn now that he's an analyst there. I'm a massive braves fan.

But on the topic of rock, I've already expressed my opinion of him multiple times. His material is absolutely awful, it's the corny jokes and immature material that annoys me. I'm perfectly fine with serious rock, when rock delivers a promo intensely and with purpose he's good.






For example this is by far Rock's best promo, great material with serious and fantastic delivery.

Rock's so fucking charismatic that it's fucking infuriating that he decides to continue to cut promos with horrendously childish material.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> Rock's promo in Boston on Billy Gunn back in like '99 was fucking awesome. He incorporated NOMAR~! Although I'm under the impression most people in this thread don't know who Nomar Garciaparra is. :argh:


I remember Nomar. Can we get a Randy Johnson mention out there next? 

Thinking of Sports being brought up by the world of wrestling makes me jump straight to the montage of Edge & Christian dissing the team of which town they were in on Edge's Decade of Decadence DVD. CHEAP HEAT GOLD.






RAIDERS :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao that promo.

I remember the first Cutting Edge with Dmitri Young in Detroit. Edge got crazy heat for shitting on Detroit teams.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's fucking amazing. 

I was literally JUST about to talk about the first Cutting Edge w/ Dimitri Young @ Survivor Series 2005. Loved King's commentary that "THE LIONS WILL WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE EDGE DOES!"

You lied Jerry.... YOU LIED!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> That's fucking amazing.
> 
> I was literally JUST about to talk about the first Cutting Edge w/ Dimitri Young @ Survivor Series 2005. Loved King's commentary that "THE LIONS WILL WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE EDGE DOES!"
> 
> You lied Jerry.... YOU LIED!


He couldn't have been more wrong. :side:

I love promos like that where they bring in an athlete/actor/etc. Not for some huge role or anything, but it's always fun to see (especially as a huge sports fan) guys out of their usual environment. Like CLAY MATTHEWS on Smackdown last year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Edge calling Dimitri Young "Mark Henry" was fucking great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CLAY MATTHEWS gets entrance music, poses on stage, and became the most random official in the history of pro wrestling. Those sports appearances can never be topped.

No love for Shaq owning Show in 2009? It was followed by the best, or worst, comment ever by Michael Cole: *BOOM SHAQ-A-LACKA*.

I couldn't forget it if I tried.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

The Revolution is not much better than the last nWo DVD, but the Blu-Ray does a Wrestling Roundtable as an extra. That was my main reason for purchasing. I wish they would release more Legends Of Wrestling discussions. I could listen to Ross, Rhodes, Hayes, and Patterson talk all day!

- Vic


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

But the highlight of that roundtable was Nash for sure. I could listen to him all day.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*WWE SummerSlam 2012*
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar

_Shit, what a disappointment. Sure, the match was solid overall, but as a SummerSlam main event, it failed. Why did they even "fight", what's the backstory here? Because, whatever it was, it seemed like Triple H is really pissed on Lesnar because of something. But here's the problem - he failed miserably in trying to recreate Cena's heroic babyface performance from Extreme Rules. Hunter's agression and rage felt forced, it was like he was trying too hard. Lensar was a good monster heel, but he wasn't great. Didn't like the pace either, and they oversold almost everything, which is a big no no if you want to create a chaotic mayhem. It felt awkward. The only thing I liked was Lesnar focusing on Hunter's arm, and Hunter finding the weak spot in Lesnar's gut. And that's about it. Really, Hunter's faux hero performance almost ruined the whole match. Solid overall, but nothing more._
*Rating: ***


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Edge promo from Survivor Series 05 was fucking awesome. Amazing how much heat wrestlers can get just by mentioning the sports team of the city they're in.

Didn't Orton do something similar in Survivor Series 03? IIRC, he RKOed some hometown hero or something.

Also, I just finished reviewing the first Orton/Cena yesterday but I really think I should change my style. I analyzed a five minute match and went through everything that takes place and it turned to about 10 rows of text. I can only imagine how much it will be using that style when I get to their ironman match. Nah, I'm just going for a more detailed way of reviewing it in my usual style. Much easier and readable that way.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

To think people gave HHH V Lesnar ****1/2 when it first happened. 

Bad match. One of the most disappointing matches of the last few years. *1/2.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for HHH/Lesnar, and #7 on my MOTY list .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Why the fuck they didn't go with Lesnar/Cena II?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> That Edge promo from Survivor Series 05 was fucking awesome. Amazing how much heat wrestlers can get just by mentioning the sports team of the city they're in.
> 
> Didn't Orton do something similar in Survivor Series 03? IIRC, he RKOed some hometown hero or something.
> 
> Also, I just finished reviewing the first Orton/Cena yesterday but I really think I should change my style. I analyzed a five minute match and went through everything that takes place and it turned to about 10 rows of text. I can only imagine how much it will be using that style when I get to their ironman match. Nah, I'm just going for a more detailed way of reviewing it in my usual style. Much easier and readable that way.


That was Mark Cuban, the owner of the Dallas Mavericks. He also got powerslammed through a table by Sheamus during the Cena-Sheamus feud. What a fucking CHAMP.

Eddie-Malenko on the ECW Unreleased DVD fucking OWNS hard. ***** 1/4* from me, and this set is looking pretty good so far. I'm assuming by looking at the talent involved on the second and third discs, that the first one is a high point. OH WELL.

Plus ; Trips-Lesnar owns , I just need to watch it again before 2012 is over to re-affirm my opinion


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Triple H/Lesnar: **1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It really is an awesome match, and at the moment I'd have it third in terms of my MOTY list, although I could eat my words when I eventually re-watch it in comparison to the others on my list. So far, barely anything has lived up to it's original ratings besides Punk/Bryan and Lesnar/Cena, so MAYBE it stands a chance though.

Still have yet to see Shield vs Ryback/Hell NO. Have it right here on my computer, just haven't bothered to give it a watch yet. Maybe because I'm cautious when watching anything with RYBACK in it. Although the awesomeness that is AMBROSE should cancel that out. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WATCH IT.

Narrowly missed out of a top 10 spot on my MOTY list (#9 if I did just WWE though), but its fucking awesome and so much fun. Ryback spends a lot of time out of the match too .


----------



## ljones97 (Feb 11, 2012)

What is better, Shawn michaels story-heartbreak and triumph or Shawn michaels:My journey?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I enjoy the doc on Heartbreak & Triumph A LOT.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah Ryback gets taken out when he was getting tired it seems so he isn't tired and sloppy to ruin it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'VE GOT ECW MATCHES TO WATCH FIRST DAMNIT !

Got my Lesnar Autograph in the mail today :mark: can't open it until Christmas though, which fucking sucks dick. Gotta get that ish framed and order a Trips one on boxing day more than likely.

This DVD is surprisingly AWESOME so far, legit. I'm a pretty huge critic of ECW at times, but as far as the "garbage-style" ECW matches go on this set, they're done atleast semi-right. The two matches featuring Eddie and Dean are AWESOME, and there's even a good Shane Douglas match on here with Cactus Jack. Which is insane considering that I think Douglas is fucking GARBAGE :lol


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just watched Rock-HHH Backlash 2000 and damn that is AWESOME. The crowd, Shane McMahon, and Rock playing the perfect Superhero with the classic Austin pops, just crazy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

THE GAME


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DAT :hhh


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

He was on a fuckin rolll


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He sure was. Can't wait for his DVD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ANOTHER TRIPS DISCUSSION ANYONE ?!?!?!?

Feels like we haven't had one in a few hours. That must be an all time record for us as of late.

ANYWAYS, Taz vs Sabu from Barely Legal 1997 is fucking awesome. Doesn't touch the RVD/Lynn or Malenko/Guerrero matches of course, but I'd put it up there with some of the best that ECW has produced. **** 1/2* from me, could have been *****+* if they opted to stick with their "Taz is a machine but whenever things get out of control Sabu takes over" instead of straying away from that at the end of the match.

Would definitely make my top 20 ECW matches though, I do believe.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Well, I'm watching the first Rock 3 Disc set and I know you guys were talking about his promos earlier, but thoughts on Rocky's top 5 matches? I'm sure Cal's list could be amusing


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Rock Matches:

1. Vs Austin WM 19
2. Vs HHH JD 2000
3. Vs Austin WM 17
4. Vs HHH Backlash 2000
5. I dunno. Too tired to think.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

vs Austin WM 17
vs Austin WM 19
vs HHH Backlash 2000
vs HHH Iron Man
vs Foley I Quit/HHH Ladder/Angle/Lesnar???

idk about the 5th

edit :lmao my thoughts exactly


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rocky's top five ?

1. vs Austin WM X-7 : ***** 3/4*
2. vs HHH JD 00 : ***** 1/2*
3. vs Taker vs Angle VEN 02 : ***** 1/2*
4. vs Brock SS 02 : ***** 1/4*
5. vs HHH BL 00 : ***** 1/4*

The better question is simple ; Rock's best match where HE happens to be the best worker in the match? DOES IT EXIST ?!?!?! :lol 

That's a serious question, by the way.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd actually attribute the Austin WM 19 match more to Rock than Austin. WM 17 was Austin's match, 19 was Rock's match. 15 wasn't that good so who gives a fuck?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rock is pretty great in the Backlash match against Hunter.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, he did get carried a lot. He did play a great against all odds babyface at BL 00


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, I meant what was his best match against an inferior worker overall ? Would it be the Hogan match at Wrestlemania ? :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

His matches with HHH 8*D


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

God damnit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK OFF. :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HEY THAT'S MY LINE


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TRIPS MARKS STICK TOGETHER.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Let's have yet another timeless debate:

Which was better Rock/Austin WM X-7 or Rock/Austin WM 19.

Me personally, I prefer the latter. To me the match just told a better story and had more class to it. And after watching the latest Austin documentary, I finally learned what Rock was telling Austin when it was done. He told the man he loved him! Such class!

WM 19 is more of an emotional match to me. And I saw it for the first time like 7 years after it happened and I still felt the emotion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> TRIPS MARKS STICK TOGETHER.


FAIR ENOUGH



sharkboy22 said:


> Let's have yet another timeless debate:
> 
> Which was better Rock/Austin WM X-7 or Rock/Austin WM 19.
> 
> ...


I lean towards 17. I do like the emotion of 19, particularly the ending. Watching the doc on WM19 that came with the WM20 DVD emphasized the respect the two had for each other, and being that Austin was in dire shape at the time, it's pretty great to watch the match with that in mind.

However, the crowd reaction for Austin at 17 is out of this world. Both are great in their own right, but I think if I HAD to choose, I'd go with 17.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

17 is the far superior match in my eyes, but I can definitely see why somebody would like or think 19 is the better match.

I have yet to see anybody who prefers 15 over all of the others though :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Not a Rock guy, but he called alot of the spots during the SummerSlam '02 match with Brock. Passed the torch that night. :Rock

Only for Brock to leave 1.5 years later: fpalm


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not a big fan of The Rock either but his match against Punk at the Rumble could be great. I'd be shocked if it isn't better than Rock/Cena.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm actually really looking forward to it. Intrigues me much more than Cena/Rock II. That being said, I'd kinda really like to see Lesnar/Rock, even though the outcome is painfully obvious.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's like Hogan passing the torch to Rock at WM XVIII, only for Hogan to wrestle more matches for the WWE POST Mania X8 :lol

Punk/Rock and Lesnar/Rock are the only Rock matches I have any interest in seeing at this point. If that's the two matches that Rock wrestles in 2012, I'll be insanely happy, trust me. :brock


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If Rock/Lesnar happens Brock better fucking win.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You know he won't. Cena > Brock and Rock > Cena so it'd make sense to even the score with Brock > Rock but I just don't see it happening. I'd be fucking pissed, too.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Rock has to get his win back from 10.5 years ago.

I'd much rather see Rock/Brock or Rock/Triple H than Rock/Cena II. For once they should actually stick by their rules and policies. (Once in a lifetime tag for last year's match)

Brock was ruined when they had Super Cena beat him. If he's not renewing his contract after Mania, he's going to lose.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Top 5 Rock matches

Vs Austin WM17 *****
Vs HHH JD 00 **** 1/2
Vs Austin WM 19 **** 1/4
Vs Taker/Angle VEN02 **** 1/4
Vs HHH BL 00 **** 1/4

I don't remember vs Brock SS02 well, need to give it a rewatch. Best worker, I'd give it to vs Austin WM19. Like Cal said, he really carried that match, Austin carried WM17, and who cares about 15?

HHH/Lesnar ***

Probably my disappointment of the year, I knew Rock/Cena was going to be average at best and that's exactly what we got.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Yeah, I'm actually really looking forward to it. Intrigues me much more than Cena/Rock II. That being said, I'd kinda really like to see Lesnar/Rock, even though the outcome is painfully obvious.


The thought of Rock/Cena II intrigues you?

Once was enough for me. I think I just hated the feud because it didn't feel like a feud the closer we got to Mania. We all know in wrestling everything is about making the money. But Rock/Cena was a match where WWE just blatantly said "We're all about making that money!" The stupid Rock/Cena documentaries, the DVDs the everything. It was way too forced. Then WM comes and before the match can finally start we have to witness 10 minutes of concert performances. 

Oh well, at least Lesnar/Cena compensated for it. Now that's a fucking feud. 3 weeks of just ass-kicking left and right. Man, those two really didn't like each other. Cena was allowed to really let loose as well. With Rock he was still a smiling pussy but with Lesnar he was legit badass.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

At least The Rock left after making the company TONS of money and gave them some kind of notice. Brock left after the company had major plans for him going forward. It pissed off the entire company when he just decided to leave. I watched a Vince and Triple H video last night and they discussed how much they invested in him and the major plans they had for him going forward, only for him to burn them. They were both pretty pissed. And he left to try to play football, and completely failed. :brock

Personally, I was alright with it. Was never impressed or a fan of his WWE matches, especially this time around. A worked UFC style is kind of boring and plodding, IMO. All that said, I respect his college wrestling career as well as his UFC career. He's a great real fighter.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> The thought of Rock/Cena II intrigues you?
> 
> Once was enough for me. I think I just hated the feud because it didn't feel like a feud the closer we got to Mania. We all know in wrestling everything is about making the money. But Rock/Cena was a match where WWE just blatantly said "We're all about making that money!" The stupid Rock/Cena documentaries, the DVDs the everything. It was way too forced. Then WM comes and before the match can finally start we have to witness 10 minutes of concert performances.
> 
> Oh well, at least Lesnar/Cena compensated for it. Now that's a fucking feud. 3 weeks of just ass-kicking left and right. Man, those two really didn't like each other. Cena was allowed to really let loose as well. With Rock he was still a smiling pussy but with Lesnar he was legit badass.


Nah, I said Rock/Punk intrigues me much MORE than Cena/Rock II (which doesn't intrigue me at all).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> That Edge promo from Survivor Series 05 was fucking awesome. Amazing how much heat wrestlers can get just by mentioning the sports team of the city they're in.
> 
> Didn't Orton do something similar in Survivor Series 03? IIRC, he RKOed some hometown hero or something.
> 
> Also, I just finished reviewing the first Orton/Cena yesterday but I really think I should change my style. I analyzed a five minute match and went through everything that takes place and it turned to about 10 rows of text. I can only imagine how much it will be using that style when I get to their ironman match. Nah, I'm just going for a more detailed way of reviewing it in my usual style. Much easier and readable that way.


That was Mark Cuban, owner of the NBA's Dallas Mavericks and a billionaire. And he also got put through a table by Sheamus in '09. :lmao


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I wish the Knicks had an owner like Cuban


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best In The North Pole said:


> The better question is simple ; Rock's best match where HE happens to be the best worker in the match? DOES IT EXIST ?!?!?! :lol
> 
> That's a serious question, by the way.


The Jericho No Mercy match was pretty clearly a Rock match, I thought.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't know who called the match and quite frankly I don't care but Rock/Lesnar is a passing the torch great. It gets **** from me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like Rock/Lesnar as well and I'd probably throw it in the ****ish range.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The crowd also made that match. "Let's go Rocky! Let's go brocky!"

Oh yeah and you can't forget Heyman, "Oh shit!" lol


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I've watched Ryback and Team Hell no vs The Shield at TLC three times now, and it might just be my MOTY. Why?

Because I enjoyed the fuck out of it on every watch, and usually with matches after a second or third watch you don't enjoy it as much as you did when you watched the first watched it live (as you didn't know what to expect next and stuff), but with this match it's not the case. I mean, my current MOTY is Punk vs Bryan at OTL, but I'm not sure I could enjoy that much nearly as much if I watched it again as I do with this match. I'm a big gimmick match fan as well, TLC is my favorite match type of all, and this match just delivered perfectly in every aspect. Great job from everyone involved, awesome and unique spots, and a hot crowd throughout. Three new talents were made in that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Let's have yet another timeless debate:
> 
> Which was better Rock/Austin WM X-7 or Rock/Austin WM 19.
> 
> ...


WM 19 in a landslide for me.

Yep, Brock vs Rock from Summerslam '02 OWNS. Easy ****.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have XIX match at ***** and the 17 one at ****1/4. I just loved everything about their last match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania 19 is :mark:

17 is great too, but I always lose interest half way. Standard 'too long of an attitude era brawl' type deal. Only it holds up over time. Unlike Austin vs Triple H from NWO '01.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WM17 is at *****
WM19 is at ****1/2
SS02 is at ****1/4

For. Me.

And to go back to the top 5 Rock matches:

vs Austin (WM17)
vs Benoit (FL00)
vs HHH (BL00)
vs Austin (WM19)
vs Angle vs Taker (VEN02)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> WrestleMania 19 is :mark:
> 
> 17 is great too, but I always lose interest half way. Standard 'too long of an attitude era brawl' type deal. Only it holds up over time. Unlike Austin vs Triple H from NWO '01.


It's definitely a really good match, I agree on that. I also agree on the style. I watched Austin/Trips recently and while I don't dislike it as much as most here, it isn't the epic I remember watching live at the age of 9.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

tbhayley, I'm not really crazy about any Austin vs Triple H brawls now that I think about it. No Mercy '99, Survivor Series '00, No Way Out '01. All are entertaining, but go far too long for me to really give a damn. They're not HHH vs Shawn Michaels type of long and bad. Granted, I wouldn't call any of three I listed "great".

Entertaining is the best word I can use. Austin vs Dude Love from Over The Edge '98 rapes all of them. Yet it doesn't get mentioned much. Oh well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Other than NWO 01, which I'm not sure even holds up, I really don't like any Austin/HHH match. Buried Alive 96 is probably their second best match together and it's just barely 'good'.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lots of punches happen. And I think a neckbreaker too. Rest tends to mesh together.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I thought Austin and Hunter's WWF Title match at Manchester Mayhem '98 was pretty good.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

I watched that Austin/HHH 2/3 falls match a month ago. If you want to see 2 guys beat the living piss out of each other for 40 minutes, this is it. Best match they ever had, holds up very well.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Might give their Survivor Series '00 match a watch tonight. I remember liking it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Austin/HHH NWO 01- ****1/4

Watched it earlier this year, and I did have it at the full five, but lower it down to what it is now. It's still an awesome match and a borderline classic, but just not the 5 star match I used to see it as. Not as fun to watch as it used to be for some reason.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Or maybe I'm thinking of No Mercy '99... not sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hard to believe it, but I'll stick with Triple H vs Rock matches. Austin, well vs anyone else is better. Kurt Angle for a random pick off the top of my head. Don't know if Austin & Undertaker really had any great matches vs each other either. I only like their Buried Alive match b/c it was Ministry Taker. Botched finish didn't help things out. Oh wait, A Cold Day In Hell & First Blood from Fully Loaded '99. Yep, Taker works here.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched HHH/Austin No Mercy '99. I'd happily call it good, bordering on really good at times. Not great though.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I may be the only person ever to have no seen the H/Austin 3 stages match. I didn't really care for their Survivor Series '00 match. I think a lot of those AE matches are blown immensely out of proportion anyway but I do want to see it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Leaves for the night...

Comes back...

Triple H discussion :hhh


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*CM Punk v Triple H - Night of Champions '11*
Similar in layout to the HHH/Austin No Mercy '99 match I watched earlier. Unfortunately that match had a good crowd and JR on commentary whereas this one had a shitty crowd and Booker T being hilariously bad. That said I thought this was pretty great up until the interferences. On first viewing the overbooked finishing stretch was fun (maybe even dramatic?) in an Attitude Era type way. This time I didn't like it. Disappointing end to what had been a very good brawl. Wouldn't mind seeing them go at it again before Hunter calls it a day.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Love, love, LOVE the Trips-Punk match. ****** all the fucking way from me.

It has nothing to do with the fact that they're my two all time favorites.... I swear  

I'm just extremely happy that I got to see Trips-Punk and Trips-Brock main event two seperate PPVs over the last year and few months. All we need now is a Punk-Brock Heyman civil war and I'll have pretty much all my realistic dream matches watched


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Austin/HHH 3SOH bored the shit out of me. Don't know why but I just lost interest after a while.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Punk/H **** from me as well. Great match. Probably one of my favorite matches from last year. There were far too many run-ins, but I'm sure that was to "protect" Punk as H was going over. It was still a very fun match, and a dream match come true....even though I'm not a huge fan of H.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Just watched HHH/Austin No Mercy '99. I'd happily call it good, bordering on really good at times. Not great though.


I'm sufficed with solid - ***.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just bought some Tagged Classics seeing as its payday today 

Wrestlemania 5 & 6
Wrestlemania 7 & 8
Wrestlemania 9 & 10
Wrestlemania 13 & 14
Wrestlemania 15 & Steve Austin - Hell Yeah
Wrestlemania 2000

And I bought RAW:The Beginning 1 & 2 set. So I'm quite happy!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WRESTLEMANIA.

Always been a mark for V & VIII. VII might be the best WrestleMania ever though. It's up there with XIX for me. You scored. (Y)


----------



## DrugFreeGeorge (Sep 7, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> I may be the only person ever to have no seen the H/Austin 3 stages match. I didn't really care for their Survivor Series '00 match. I think a lot of those AE matches are blown immensely out of proportion anyway but I do want to see it.


I've never seen it either. Only highlights.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I could do with buying WM V-X, then 13&14. Got the rest either original release or tagged classic (if it was released on DVD normally I own it, then tagged classics for the earlier ones) . Shall have to see where I am financially after christmas, could do with getting em in the TC SV sale .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Picked up every Mania that I don't currently have (I-XVIII, XXIII-XXVI) for Christmas. Wanna watch them in order at some point and write a top 50-75 ish matches in Mania history along with a top 10-20 worst matches in Mania history.

But I'll save that for Mania Season.

WRESTLEMANIA.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I might watch Wrestlemania VI tonight actually, with some pizza and some cold beverages.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cold beverages ?

Surely you mean a cold Mountain Dew or Diet Mountain Dew ?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I ain't touching that shite. Cider all the way like a true anti-sXe cunt.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Why drink alcohol when you can enjoy a nice refreshing glass of milk , with some cookies on the side ?

LIKE SANTA CLAUS.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watching Razor/Hitman King of the Ring 1993, will follow that with Tatanka/HBK at Wrestlemania IX 1993.

Since his PM is full, I'd like to give a thank you to Hambuganomics for what I presume is a rep for reading my shit summary and/or match ratings. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Watching Razor/Hitman King of the Ring 1993, will follow that with Tatanka/HBK at Wrestlemania IX 1993.
> 
> Since his PM is full, I'd like to give a thank you to Hambuganomics for what I presume is a rep for reading my shit summary and/or match ratings. (Y)


The best way to thank other members is by just going to one of their posts and repping it with whatever you want to say.

_____________________________

In other irrelevant news: my Orton/Cena series are coming along nicely. I've gotten finished with every match up till Unforgiven 07. Not much of a challenge, though, since only one of them actually goes on for an extended amount of time. (SS)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Why drink alcohol when you can enjoy a nice refreshing glass of milk , with some cookies on the side ?
> 
> LIKE SANTA CLAUS.


:kurt :kurt


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Off topic: It seems Hambuganomics just popped in and read some post at that time. I'll get him later.

Topic: Bret "Hitman" Hart vs Razor Ramon King of the Ring 1993 *** 

Hall's a fucking BIG bastard. The match was kind of slowed down due to the approx. 2 minute armhold Bret performed but picked up near the end. Not mind blowing, but decent. It felt like there should have been more dominance by Razor and have Bret enter "face in peril" mode.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We haven't had an Angle discussion in a while .... Let's keep it that way 

Most Overrated/Underrated Match of the Last Decade ?

Most Overrated : Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero (Wrestlemania XXI)

Most Underrated : The Big Show vs Brock Lesnar (Stretcher Match ; Judgment Day 2003) 

Don't really like using the words "Overrated" and "Underrated" because sometimes things become so overrated that they become underrated and vice versa (Rock-Cena and Bret-Shawn , two Wrestlemania main events that come to mind). Think of it more as "overrecognized" and "underrecognized"


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels. Wrestlemania 24. Match itself was horrible. Emotion was high. Therefore, it was average.

I'm probably on my own here but I didn't like HBK/Cena neither. I thought the feud was drawn out and boring.

I think this counts as the last decade too but didn't Kawada/Mutoh back in the early 00s get Match of the Year praise at the time? I thought it was horrendous.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Overrated: Punk vs Bryan - Over the Limit 2012
Underrated: Have to think about that one for a bit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't know about Kawada/Mutoh but I recently watched "2001.06.08.AJPW.Keiji Mutoh vs. Genichiro Tenryu.(WON MOTY)" and the fact it got the WON MOTY for 2001 ahead of about 20 WWF matches alone is absolutely INSANE because its terrible. Not even Tenryu could get something good out of Mutoh.

Overrated from this year: Rock/Cena


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^Is Muta/Mutoh really that bad? I've heard of him being praised and seen as one of the greats of Japanese wrestling.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Agree with Rock/Cena. It was so poor despite the anticipation. The crowd though make it some what watch able. 

RVD/Lynn from Hardcore Heaven is so underrated, but that was late 90s so I can't really include it. I remember Lesnar and Angle having a match on Smackdown in the early 00s for the WWE title and I remember thinking this is fucking awesome. 

Found this actually:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SpookshowTony said:


> ^^Is Muta/Mutoh really that bad? I've heard of him being praised and seen as one of the greats of Japanese wrestling.


Muta is TERRIBLE. He really is.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Huh. The four matches I saw of his, I thought he was okay.

Sting vs Muta ***
I believe it was at Wargames. The match ended in what I think is called a "Dusty finish". (sounds dirty)

Steiners vs Muta & Mr. Saito ****
Happened at Starrcade.

Steamboat vs Muta **1/2
Happened in Japan. Can't remember date.

Sting/Flair vs Muta/Funk **
Electrified cage. So-so match. 

I didn't see him as terrible, maybe average at best.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Muta's match against Double A in WCW (I want to say 1992, I'm not sure) was fucking awesome. But then again, he was against one of the in-ring GOATs.

There needs to be more ARN~! love in this thread.

ARN

:arn


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SPINEBUSTER! :arn


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^I saw two Arn Anderson matches.

AA/Eaton ***1/2
I believe this was at Fall Brawl for the TV Title.

Sting's Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance *****
WrestleWar 1992


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Which match do you find better, Cena-Punk SS11 or Cena-Punk NOC12?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena-Punk Noc 2012


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SpookshowTony said:


> ^^Is Muta/Mutoh really that bad? I've heard of him being praised and seen as one of the greats of Japanese wrestling.


He's a legend in Japan the same way Superstar Billy Graham is over here. But he and Graham both kinda stink. Well Mutoh can pull something good out of his ass now and then. Graham just sucked total balls. But yeah I wouldn't even call Mutoh a top 100 Japanese wrestler.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The ARN-Muta match you're thinking of is from Power Hour 1990. I agree, ARN needs alot more love in this thread as of late.

FALL BRAWL VS FLAIR :mark:

.......... And Cena-Punk SS11 >>>>> Cena-Punk NOC12 .... Although they're both fucking awesome.


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> ^^I saw two Arn Anderson matches.
> 
> AA/Eaton ***1/2
> I believe this was at Fall Brawl for the TV Title.
> ...


I have that show on VHS (was my Dad's) :mark:

Shame I don't have a Video Player to watch it on anymore :no:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> He's a legend in Japan the same way Superstar Billy Graham is over here. But he and Graham both kinda stink. Well Mutoh can pull something good out of his ass now and then. Graham just sucked total balls. But yeah I wouldn't even call Mutoh a top 100 Japanese wrestler.


Hmm, interesting.


Shawn Michaels vs Tatanka IC Championship Wrestlemania IX 1993 ***1/2

LOL at Michaels taking forever to take his entrance attire off. Now the nitty gritty. That ending is bullshit and absolutely infuriating. HBK grabs the referee and pulls him out of the ring and the call is a countout, not a DQ? And would it have killed them to give Tatanka a run or two with the IC title? He was never magic in the ring, but he was over with the fans. The match itself fine, though there were some sloppy spots but they didn't take me out of the bout. Tatanka focused on HBK's arm while Michaels was just trying to keep the Native American down. A really nice spot took place when Tatanka reversed a leap off the top rope by Michaels into a powerslam. The ref was noticeably slow on that count. Commentary was gold between Savage and Heenan. I could give examples but nah.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Survivor Series 2005 (updated ratings)*

Booker T/Chris Benoit - ***1/4
Triple H/Ric Flair - ****1/4
John Cena/Kurt Angle - **3/4
Team Smackdown/Team Raw - ****

*The opener is just decent and an example of the chemistry Booker and Benoit have.

*On a second watch, the LMS was even better than the first time. Not quite as good as TT but that's not a bad thing. I also forgot that Naitch got up from not one, not two but THREE Pedigrees!

*WWE Championship match was way too overbooked with all the shenanigans and ref bumps. And unlike Austin/Angle from SummerSlam 01, this one came off extremely forced in making Cena look dominant and getting heat on Angle for acting like a bitch since fans started turning on Cena around this point.

*Main event was absolutely awesome although not as good as I remember the first time. Also didn't buy into HBK's "underdog" act as the lone Raw performer left against 3 in the end. Didn't help that I was rooting for Smackdown the whole way through. Also JBL could have been an awesome face.

*Undertaker's return was awesome and while reading another board from when the PPV took place, there's a comment saying Taker with the beard looks like a cross between Benoit and Randy Savage. On a closer look, I kinda see the Benoit comparison with the full beard.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck I remember loving Flair/HHH at SS '05. Need to give that a rewatch since the Taboo Tuesday one usually gets most of my love.

And that 5 vs 5 main event is one of my favorite SS matches they've done, if not my absolute favorite.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Which 'History of _____ Championship' is the best set?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Flair/HHH SVS 05 was great, but doesn't hold a candle to their Cage match at TT. Ratings for SVS 05 that I remember:

Triple H/Ric Flair - ***3/4
John Cena/Kurt Angle - **1/2
Team Smackdown/Team Raw - ****

Raw/Smackdown Survivor Series match is always worth a watch for the commentary alone. Match itself is fun too seeing heels and faces team up all in the name of their brand. Undertaker return was awesome as usual.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

That awesome TLC match got me in the mood for some carnage so gave some of the other TLC matches a watch.

*The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I Summerslam 2000 

*★ ★ ★ ★

* The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 17*
★ ★ ★ ★ 1/4​
*The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001​*★ ★ ★ ★ 1/2


* Bubba & Spike Dudley Vs Kane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 *
★ ★ ★ 3/4​
*Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006​*★ ★ ★ 3/4​


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Man, I miss when the brand extension mattered.  Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown from SS05 was brilliant and the build up was phenomenal. My favourite part of the match is how Bobby Lashley got eliminated, hated the guy back then and when he got eliminated the way he did, I let out a big ass cheer.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clark Griswold said:


> Fuck I remember loving Flair/HHH at SS '05. Need to give that a rewatch since the Taboo Tuesday one usually gets most of my love.
> 
> And that 5 vs 5 main event is one of my favorite SS matches they've done, if not my absolute favorite.


Great matches. Other traditional SVS matches I like are 2001 and both of the 2003 ones.

I also just finished watching JBL/Eddie from JD 04 again. I barely gave it **** last time but on this watch, it was so much better and more epic. Eddie's comeback and the energy he had despite being a bloody mess post-match is just unbelievable. Easy ****1/2 this time. Also lol'd @ Malenko, Finlay and Arn Anderson appearing in the end.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> That awesome TLC match got me in the mood for some carnage so gave some of the other TLC matches a watch.
> 
> *The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I Summerslam 2000
> 
> ...


Did you watch these from the ladder match DVD? I have all these matches from that DVD, 
love them. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Was Edge/Flair really the first TLC match since 2002?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Was Edge/Flair really the first TLC match since 2002?


Yep. Don't know why the stipulation took such a long absence. Edge vs Matt Hardy at Raw Homecoming could have easily been a TLC since they used a table anyways.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Which 'History of _____ Championship' is the best set?


All three (WWE, IC & World) have classic matches that you should have in your collection. The WWE Title is very strong but I personally don't own it because I have all of the matches on other sets. I do own the other two but if I had to recommend just one it would be the World Title. It has a solid documentary on the history of the World Title plus some classics from the NWA, WCW, and WWE. Although, you can't go wrong with the IC Title DVD featuring Savage/Steamboat, Bret/Bulldog, Bret/Perfect, Michaels/Razor, and HHH/Flair. Again though, I own all of those matches on other DVDS too. It's perfect if you don't own Bret, HBK, Flair, and Savage's DVDs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Which 'History of _____ Championship' is the best set?


Intercontinental Championship set, imo. It's GRAND. World Heavyweight Championship set is awesome for the NWA/WCW bouts that got put on it. Not enough of those if you ask me. WWE Championship isn't bad. The 80's part (disc 1) sort of suffers since you have a slew of Hogan matches & other old school bouts which in turn come off clipped. Not all, but some. Which is a shame. Backlund vs Slaughter was a really good match. Btw, if you own a pretty vast modern collection of WWE PPVs/DVD sets (00-05) then maybe passing on the WWE Championship set is best. The entire 3 disc is all PPV matches which you could possibly own already. A head's up for you.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Was Edge/Flair really the first TLC match since 2002?





Choke2Death said:


> Yep. Don't know why the stipulation took such a long absence. Edge vs Matt Hardy at Raw Homecoming could have easily been a TLC since they used a table anyways.


Yup, all true. And in case your wondering, the last TLC match that's taken place on a Raw show since the latter one was Miz vs. Lawler in 2010.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best RAW TLC match was the 4 way from RAW Roulette, imo.

So underrated. It's one hell of a match.

I'd probably claim it to be my favorite Ladder match on a TV broadcast, tbhayley.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

andersonasshole900 said:


> Which 'History of _____ Championship' is the best set?


Intercontinental Championship. Its a great set, alotta fun matches. World Heavyweight comes in second, good documentary, good match selection as well. The WWE Championship was cool but way too much Hogan and they should have left the Iron Man match off of it. I think they should have put some of the lesser acknowledged matches on there.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm a big fan of the third disc of the WWE Championship DVD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You can't go wrong with either.....

If you're more of a fan of Hogan and the bigger type matches, than shoot for the WWE Championship DVD. It has some of the greatest matches ever in Foley-HHH , Angle-Benoit, HBK-Mankind, Austin-Rock, and Rock-Taker-Angle. It also has more misses than the others IMO, with a few bad clipped matches, the Ironman, and the Summerslam 2000 Triple Threat (WHICH IS GARBAGE).

If you like the NWA or WCW, get the WHC DVD, and it's a no-brainer there. Plus, you get one of the best WWE matches ever in Angle-Taker, so it's all good in that department. I'm a fan of the lesser known matches of the set like Flair-Steiner.

The IC title AGAIN has one of the best matches ever in Savage-Steamboat, but since it was the 'workhorse' title, you get a ton of better worked matches than the other DVDs, and less "sports entertainment". Tons of great old school shit on there, Santana-Savage fucking owns hard and I adore it. 

Once upon a time I was asked by an individual looking to start a Wrestling DVD collection what DVDs they should build their collection on , and I said the WWE/WHC/IC DVDs, simply because they're a great centerpiece full of great matches and fantastic moments.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man I still haven't gotten over the choices for the matches on the WHC DVD. One match from the 1980s. REALLY?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

hanshanshans911 said:


> Which match do you find better, Cena-Punk SS11 or Cena-Punk NOC12?


Summerslam, easy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched the biggest POS review for the WHC DVD on Youtube by this "Ausswanton007" guy. Here are a list of his ratings for the DVD, just for the LOLZ :

2 Out of 3 Falls Match for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
Pat OConnor vs. Buddy Rogers ***

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Gene Kiniski vs. Dory Funk Jr. *N/A*

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Jack Brisco vs. Terry Funk *N/A*

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Harley Race vs. Dusty Rhodes *N/A*

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Ric Flair vs. Magnum T.A.* ***

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Ric Flair vs. Sting ******

DISC 2 WCW

Matches

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Ric Flair vs. Scott Steiner **1/2*

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Lex Luger vs. Barry Windham **1/2*

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Vader vs. Ron Simmons ***1/4*

Human Cage Match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
Vader vs. Ricky Steamboat **3/4*

Career vs. Career Steel Cage Match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair ****1/2*

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Sting vs. Hollywood Hulk Hogan ***3/4*

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Hulk Hogan vs. Goldberg ***1/2*

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Jeff Jarrett vs. Booker T. *****

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match 
The Rock vs. Chris Jericho *****3/4*

DISC 3 WWE

Matches

World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam *****

World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels *****

World Heavyweight Championship Match
Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker ****3/4*

World Heavyweight Championship Match
Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton ****1/2*

Triple Threat Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge ****1/4 *

World Heavyweight Championship Match
John Cena vs. Chris Jericho *****

Ladder Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Jeff Hardy vs. Edge ******

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol .......... So many things wrong with that I can't even explain...

The better question is ; Why the fuck was Goldberg-Hogan on this when it's on every single other WCW DVD ? I swear it must hold the record for most appearances on multiple DVDs.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well uh... um... at least he has his own view on things.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Goldberg getting anything higher than DUD is comical.

btw, speaking of the Intercontinental Championship DVD - Razor Ramon vs Jeff Jarrett from Royal Rumble '95. 

Learn it. Love it. Live it.

OWNS


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Can anyone recommend me some good Double J matches (WWF, TNA or WCW work)? Only two I've seen that I remember really liking were JJ/Razor and JJ/HBK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/user/ausSwanton007

:lol Just go look at his channel and try to find the most ridiculous thing possible. It's not that hard, and it's a fun activity.

While you're at it, give us all the 411 on the first WWE DVD you ever owned and your feelings on it ?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Rock/Cena at **** 1/2 Brock/Cena at **** lolol what?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> Can anyone recommend me some good Double J matches (WWF, TNA or WCW work)? Only two I've seen that I remember really liking were JJ/Razor and JJ/HBK.





Clark Griswold said:


> Can anyone recommend me some good Double J matches (WWF, TNA or WCW work)? Only two I've seen that I remember really liking were JJ/Razor and JJ/HBK.


_WCW_ - Just about all of his matches vs DDP are solid/good. Triple Cage really was a lot of fun even with Arquette involved. He worked some solid bouts vs Booker too. Those are a bit fuzzy, but I don't really recall many shenanigans except for the obvious guitar involvement. vs Benoit Starrcade '96. Oh, and vs Benoit in a Ladder match from Starrcade '99. Toss in the Bunkhouse Brawl vs Mike Awesome from Fall Brawl '00 too. I mark for that entire event. Just a little something extra.

_WWF_ - Handicap match with The Roadie vs Razor from IYH I, recall his match vs Edge @ Fully Loaded '99 being quality, w/Owen Hart vs New Age Outlaws Backlash '99 _(heels were good, but Outlaws were shockingly good too)_, anything vs X-Pac is always fun, worked vs Bret on a RAW in January of '95. 

_TNA_ - The weekly PPVs vs AJ Styles & Raven are your best bet. Jarrett's work in TNA is far from bad. It really is. HOWEVER, a lot of his PPV main events quickly turned to crap thanks to the insanity known as overbooking. It's annoying as hell. Jarrett didn't need it nor did the matches. His matches vs Christian (Against All Odds '06) & Robert Roode (Sacrifice '07) are good bouts. I liked the match vs Rhino (Turning Point '05) although that is overbooked too. But fun. Oh! and there is this AWESOME 6 man brawl from Genesis 2005 that you should definitely see if you haven't. I'd recommend a pass on most of the matches vs Angle. Absolutely do on the Lockdown match. Although, if you want to watch some matches go REALLY over the top, then take the time to watch them all. The Genesis '09 wasn't half bad of a gimmick match, tbf.

----------------

As for my first ever Wrestling DVD, it was Survivor Series 2003. My feelings on it are quite strong. Always have a blast whenever I watch it. It holds a guilty pleasure favorite match of mine in Kane vs Shane Ambulance and my favorite Survivor Series elmination match in Team Austin vs Team Bischoff. Plus, it has one of the best Orton moments ever RKO'ing Mark Cuban. Great JR line that followed: "WHERE THE HELL IS DANIEL STERN WHEN YOU NEED HIM?!" Love it!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Clark Griswold said:


> Can anyone recommend me some good Double J matches (WWF, TNA or WCW work)? Only two I've seen that I remember really liking were JJ/Razor and JJ/HBK.


In TNA catch his matches with Kurt Angle at Bound For Glory 2008 and the No Disqualification Match at Genesis 2009. The latter may be my favorite Jarrett match along with his match with Michaels in '95.

About to watch the latest edition of Legends Of Wrestling on WWE Classics On Demand. The topic is the "Evolution of Hardcore" so I'm looking forward to that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jarrett was really trying hard to be lil' Trips from 2004-2006 honestly. All of the overbooked insanity in the main events were complete bullshit, just Jarrett trying to tell Jarrett that he could be a big boy too. The whole "Kings of Wrestling" stable with Nash and Hall was just :lol

I still see TNA as nothing more than another Indy company , even though I watched their first 10-14 PPVs live (for free, BLACK BOX MOTHERFUCKERS). Like I'm paying for a TNA PPV of all things :lol

How about some love for *SCOTT STEINER*. What a fucking beast, pre 2001 I'd be willing to say that he's one of my favorite workers ever, and one of the guys that were a legit pleasure meeting multiple times. Met Steiner twice and he was awesome both times, we chatted about the Hase/Sasaki match which he claims to be up there with his favorite personal matches ever. 

Guy would have been a world champion when it actually MEANT something in WCW , but he didn't wanna part ways with his bro. MAD RESPECT.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I have never been a fan of Steiner. His WWE run left a bad taste in my mouth and he was annoying as hell in TNA too. Haven't gone back and watched any of his older stuff and tbh I don't want to. Overrated on the mic as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're missing out on some Steiner goodness. Two of my favorite matches of his are from 2000 WCW of all places. vs Mike Awesome Bash at the Beach & the infamous battle vs Goldberg at Fall Brawl.

His run in TNA was the greatest thing ever :lmao

MEXICO NORTH


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why I said *PRE-2001* :lol

After that he became virtually inable to work a coherent match, especially in the E (in which he had one of the worst runs ever), and to a lesser extent TNA (he had a few good matches with the company IIRC). His run with Rick is in my opinion the greatest tag team of all time, and his singles work was fucking awesome too. I even loved his work from 98-00 including his matches with Goldberg, DDP, and YES... SID (WTF).

His match with Flair @ the clash was probably his break out performance in terms of singles competition.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which SID match(es) are you referring to? I don't know if their match at Starrcade '00 was any good.

If we're talking about best tag teams then you have to look no further than to my sig or the MIDNIGHT EXPRESS. :hayley1


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes, I'm referring to Starrcade.

The match reminded me of Diesel-Sid from IYH II honestly, just a pretty good match out of two guys that you'd never expect it from. Not the highest on the STARZ on anything, but cha' know.

Best tag team IMO would be the Steiners, with the best North American tag ever being Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho from RAW 2001, with Bret/Owen vs The Steiners from Wrestlefest 1994 being equal to or a little less.

First DVD I ever owned was "The History of Wrestlemania I-IX" ... It didn't have any full matches on it, just clips from the first IX Wrestlemanias.... Turned me into a SUPER Hogan mark due to every single Hogan Mania match besides the Sid one being featured. Got Hogan's book for Christmas and took his every word as truth. Little did I know how Hogan happens to be the biggest pathological liar in wrestling history :lol

.. Love that fucking DVD.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Finished watching the first two matches of the Flair/Steamboat trilogies. Will most likely watch the third match tomorrow. Just one problem? What is the third match? lol. Would like to know, thanks in advance to whoever replies.

On the topic at hand: You know, I've never really looked at Steiner's work. I've only heard good things about his tag team run and these days I'm just in an old school mood. Anyting 70s, 80s early 90s (but not so much) I'm trying to get my hand. Will look into Steiner tomorrow as well. 

Oh and a bit late to the party but I saw Flair/Kerry Hawaii the other day and it owned. I marked like a bitch when he used the iron claw on the stomach and knee of Naitch. Awesome timing. I have it somewhere in the ****-****1/2 range.

As for my first ever WWE DVD, it's actually my first and only WWE DVD that I own. The Best of RAW 15th Anniversary. I bought it when I was 13 and at the time I thought it was a great buy. It had been 2 years since I gotten back into wrestling and it was a great way to see all the stuff that I missed out from about '02-'05. That and it was just fun to relive some moments. And see some moments for the very first time (Live Sex ftw lol, to think that I could have saw it at the time had I started back watching wrestling just one month earlier)

Oh and since I bought the set, I must have seen Bulldog vs Hart like 4 times. Incredible match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That would be Wrestlewar 89 , the middle of the trilogy in terms of quality IMO.

Still ******* and one of the greatest matches ever. Triple H's personal favorite match of all time as well.

DAT NAITCH :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you're referring to the Flair vs Steamboat '89 trilogy, then the third match is from WrestleWar '89.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

So, I always wondered what people thought of Jericho/Triple H Hell In A Cell at Judgement Day 2002. Don't know why it get's no love. Thought it was a tremendous match and hugely underrated. 

But admittedly, I watched it a while back and may need to re watch it.

So fellas?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've fluctuated on it. After my last watch I was digging it the most I ever had. Spots came together well and it flowed a LOT better than I originally thought. A problem for me on my previous watches was that it was dull. I like it.

***1/2.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

I saw that a lot of people were digging the Lashley/Cena match here. I decided to give it a second watch 5 years later...
Solid match but it's not even approaching the **** ratings i saw few pages ago. It's a 3* match for me at best.

Goods:
- excellent opening with a funny test of strengh. Lashley is shown as the stronger man and few seconds later as the technician.
- Good moves from Lashley
- Nice Spear reversed into the STFU

Bads
- Cena hitting some random moves here and there without any logical reason
- Cena speaking too much to Lashley during the STFU spot
- Lashley absolutely no selling the STFU.
- The finish (second rope FU). It's personal, i didn't like it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

****.

Great atmosphere mixed with some damn good work by both. Explosive bout between two faces. Lashley hit an all time high with the match.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Lashley would have been huge if he stayed with the WWE. The video package was excellent and he was clearly presented as a future big time player. One of the biggest loss for the WWE in recent memories.
Forgot to say that JR was awesome during the match.

The finishing sequence is too hasty. I stick with my 3 starzzz damn it!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They were gunning for him to be huge. I'm not sure if he had what it takes. Cena brought something special out of him, but as the past showed, he needed a really exceptional worker to bring it out. Not the best case you want in someone to have if they would lead the company down the line.

JR is always boss. Made the match feel huge. (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

STEINER LOVE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:steiner2

I should really go find his match vs Goldberg from Fall Brawl '00 right now. Been a while since I watched. Maybe some bouts vs DDP too.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

SUMBITCH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GO BEHIND & DO THE BUMP AND GRIND.

oh and...

SIZE DOES MATTER, BITCH. _(as he whisper's in Goldberg's ear)_


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

47 DEGREE AXIS

How did anyone holding the mic keep a straight face? Probably from fear of him beating the crap out of them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Steiners are a weird team for me. I think their most pimped stuff is good, but kind of overrated (v Harts, v Hase/Sasaki, v Sting/Luger), but they have so many really really fucking good matches that no one talks about that I like so much more (v MVC, v Quebecers, v Nasty Boys). Scott Steiner's promo are also my favourite thing about TNA ever. I am genuinely not joking.


----------



## TheFlyingAsterix (Jul 10, 2012)

How good is the Helmsley-Austin-Taker triple threat match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The Steiners are a weird team for me. I think their most pimped stuff is good, but kind of overrated (v Harts, v Hase/Sasaki, v Sting/Luger), but they have so many really really fucking good matches that no one talks about that I like so much more (v MVC, v Quebecers, v Nasty Boys). Scott Steiner's promo are also my favourite thing about TNA ever. I am genuinely not joking.


I've actually found myself enjoying the bulk of their work. The popular matches and the gems of the bunch.






This match is pretty top notch, imo. I might get some hate for this, but I've actually found quite a bit of Nasty Boys matches that I like. A lot. More than say just the excellent Chicago Street Fight vs Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne @ Spring Stampede '94.



TheFlyingAsterix said:


> How good is the Helmsley-Austin-Taker triple threat match?


Been a VERY long time since I watched No Mercy '99 UK, but I recall it being pretty standard Attitude Era stuff. Entertaining although nothing too special. Ministry Undertaker though. That's where it is at.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena's timing in that match with Lashley is by far some of the best work I have ever seen from any wrestler in a match. DAT LEG TRIP!!! Don't know about you guys but I marked like a match when he did it.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)




----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Finally got round to watching Shield vs Team Hell No and Ryback

WOW what a great match, some amazing spots and great performances all round. I was really impressed with Reigns and Bryan had a great match as well. The Seth Rollins spot at the end was the definition of a Holy Shit moment.

Definitely a ****+ match and pretty high up my favourite matches in WWE this year


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

As far as Jeff Jarrett goes, his match with HBK at IYH 2 was awesome. One of his best WWF matches easily, probably the best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

****3/4.

Amazing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> ****3/4.
> 
> Amazing.


And you were right too, his match with Razor at RR'95 was very enjoyable, as well. Completely forgot about that match.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

What are people's thoughts on no way out and bad blood 2003? I'm trying to get back into the 2003 era and don't remember seeing them since I saw them live. To get my hopes up?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, I love it so much. The knee work by Jarrett is awesome, Hall's selling was phenomenal, & The Roadie was great in his role too. It all collectively made something special. It's a personal favorite of mine.

1995 was the year done by Razor, Michaels, Owen, Bret, & Jarrett. Majority of their bouts were always the highlights of each PPV. Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's too bad most of the main events were unbearable.

EDIT ~ No Way Out '03 was pretty good from the midcard/upper midcard perspective. The triple main event was totally terrible though. Bad Blood '03 was the opposite. 3 main events were good. Rest was meh.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Oh, I love it so much. The knee work by Jarrett is awesome, Hall's selling was phenomenal, & The Roadie was great in his role too. It all collectively made something special. It's a personal favorite of mine.
> 
> 1995 was the year done by Razor, Michaels, Owen, Bret, & Jarrett. Majority of their bouts were always the highlights of each PPV. Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's too bad most of the main events were unbearable.


Yeah, you're so right, the '95 mid-card was so fun. The year Bret, Owen, Shawn, and Razor had that year was fantastic. They all deserve alot of credit for carrying the company that year while Nash had horrific main event matches (for the most part). Might watch some '95 later this afternoon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only good Diesel matches were the ones that included the guys I listed. It's too bad Razor had to work with Shane...Dean Douglas on a few PPVs. Razor tried, but those two made crap together. Majority of those events are actually pretty fun now that I've recently gone back and watched them.

I never understood why Undertaker was only ever used in the bonus matches during that year. I guess it's for the best. Matches with KAMA & Mabel weren't exactly MOTY level quality. That old philosophy of having Undertaker work vs every big guy they signed.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, I never understood how Vince utilized 'Taker in that time period either. They had him work with Yoko, Mabel, King Kong Bundy, Kama, Sid, Diesel, Giant Gonzalez. Oof. Absolutely brutal. That is kind of why I always viewed Taker's streak as a "thank you and I'm sorry" from Vince for having him work with such shit for years.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Is the recent AE DVD worth watching?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matches vs Diesel & Yokozuna weren't bad. Nash was motivated at the time and Yoko was a good big man worker. The rest, yeah, quite bad. I'll give Mabel/Viscera/BDV some credit. He could actually be good too. The casket match vs Taker was nothing noteworthy, however. Only about 6 minutes too. Giant Gonzalez was the topper of course. :lmao @ those matches.

I think the Streak was one of those things that seemed to take a life on it's own. WrestleMania rolled around and he always got the W. It wasn't until, what, WrestleMania 18 that it was finally acknowledged? 10-0 made them think "we should roll with this."


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Streak first got mentioned during the build to WM 17 with HHH. JR was doing research for commentary and realised that Undertaker had never lost yet. Wonder if they decided then and there that he would keep going with it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's possible. Had emphasis following WrestleMania 17.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Guy said:


> What are people's thoughts on no way out and bad blood 2003? I'm trying to get back into the 2003 era and don't remember seeing them since I saw them live. To get my hopes up?


I don't remember No Way Out that well but I think a couple of the matches are good like Undertaker/Big Show and Jericho/Jeff Hardy. Bad Blood was absolutely terrible. One of the most boring HIAC matches ever and I don't remember anything else. Jericho/Goldberg was okay and HBK/Flair forgettable. What else was there?

The best 2003 PPVs are Royal Rumble (for Benoit/Angle alone), WM19, Backlash, Vengeance, SummerSlam, No Mercy and Survivor Series. Other PPVs have some good matches such as Lesnar/Show (Judgment Day), Orton/HBK (Unforgiven) and Orton/RVD (Armageddon).


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm getting the Wrestlemania 28 DVD next week. How is the full HOF ceremony?


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

That Guy said:


> What are people's thoughts on no way out and bad blood 2003? I'm trying to get back into the 2003 era and don't remember seeing them since I saw them live. To get my hopes up?


NWO has three good matches in Jeff/Y2J, Matt/Kidman and Team Angle vs Benoit/Lesnar/Rhyno. Also Austins return and Hogan/Rock 2 are fun to watch. 

Bad Blood also has three good matches in Goldberg/Y2J, HBK/Flair and HHH/Nash in the Cell with Foley as ref. Just skip the first four matches and you got one heck of a PPV.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

murder said:


> NWO has three good matches in Jeff/Y2J, Matt/Kidman and Team Angle vs Benoit/Lesnar/Rhyno.


It was just Benoit & Lesnar in a handicap match. Edge was originally scheduled to be their tag partner. I think Rhyno tagged with Benoit afterwards though (including WM). :hmm:

I remember being hugely impressed with Matt vs Kidman. More so than I was ever expecting.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker vs Big Show from NWO 03 is fucking AWESOME for what it was. Not exactly ****** or anything, but a very, very good match if I remember that correctly. The Brock/Benoit tag is completely awesome as well. Love the "Triple Main Event" they advertised ;

- HHH-Steiner II : ***
- Austin-Bischoff : *1/2 **
- Hogan-Rock II : ****

TERRIBLE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thought that Brock/Benoit Vs Team Angle match was pretty crappy tbh. Definitely not what I was expecting (should have been awesome).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't see the point in rating a "match" like Austin/Bischoff. That was a highly entertaining segment. The prick boss got his ass handed to him by the returning Rattlesnake, Montreal was super hot crowd with the reactions, and JR was a GOD on commentary :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They should have just done Benoit/Angle II (if we exclude the pointless SD rematch they had after the Rumble where Benoit's eye got bloody). Or if they wanted something memorable and fresh, Brock would put his #1 contender spot on the line in a match with Benoit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh I LOVED Austin-Bischoff. JR fucking MADE that match for me with his insanity, and marking out like a little girl for everything Austin did made me just fucking DIE.

Thoughts on Awesome-Tanaka (the series) ? Wouldn't throw **** at their N2R 1999 match, but I'd definitely throw *** 1/2 at it for the excitement. My favorite Awesome-Tanaka match would definitely be their ONS 2005 match with one of the greatest camera angles of all time in it.

Tanaka gets powerbombed through a table and the camera stays on him, when seconds later we see Awesome flying out of nowhere on top of him :lol

TBH guys, I don't really talk about this ish very much, but talking about all of these rebookings and dream matches REALLY fucking makes me miss Benoit and Eddie... Like... ALOT. No doubt in my mind we would have saw a Cena-Eddie feud for the title in 2006 or 2007 that would have been fucking AWESOME, and Benoit probably would have stuck around to help the business and put over the likes of Punk, Bryan, and the like. I think Benoit-Cena in a big match situation would have been amazing.

Two of the best in the world on top of the company, dead in three years. So fucking depressing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Oh I LOVED Austin-Bischoff. JR fucking MADE that match for me with his insanity, and marking out like a little girl for everything Austin did made me just fucking DIE.
> 
> Thoughts on Awesome-Tanaka (the series) ? Wouldn't throw **** at their N2R 1999 match, but I'd definitely throw *** 1/2 at it for the excitement. My favorite Awesome-Tanaka match would definitely be their ONS 2005 match with one of the greatest camera angles of all time in it.
> 
> ...


At least his death had something good come out of it. 

On the real, my dream feuds involving Benoit and Eddie that never happened are:

Eddie/Cena (main event in 2007)
Benoit/Cena (probably in 2008 or 09 after the brand extension was phased out)
Eddie/Orton (a PPV match would have been a CLASSIC!)
Eddie/HBK (would've happened in 06 had it not been for the tragic death)
Benoit/Taker (for Wrestlemania!!! :mark
Eddie/Taker (one of the best one-on-one matches to never happen)
Benoit/Bryan (no more said!)
Benoit/Batista (Benoit got the first really good match out of Batista in the first Raw of 2005. A longer feud could've brought the best out of The Animal)
Eddie/Edge (with both as main eventers, they could've possibly surpassed their 2002 matches)
Eddie/HHH (their Raw draft 04 match was decent, who knows what a full feud would've brought out?)
Benoit/HBK (a real one-on-one feud without HHH sticking DAT NOSE in it!)

Damn, I can go on!


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

TheFlyingAsterix said:


> How good is the Helmsley-Austin-Taker triple threat match?


One of the worst fucking triple threat matches ever. Seriously.

It's on one of the extras of Austin's Blu Ray I think. I couldn't believe how sloppy and bad that match was considering the talent in it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Legends of Wrestling discussion on the "Evolution of Hardcore" was good like always. They shit on ECW multiple times especially Hayes and Patterson which I expected. They did bring up Patterson's Alley fight with Slaughter and how you can have hardcore with a story and I guess opposed to Awesome/Tanaka in ECW which was in line with "ECW matches that told no story" according to Hayes. "Gratuitous violence" is a word that was often used, they talk about the cut down on blood today, and how hardcore in WWE has become "extreme" and those matches can be great with physicality instead of over-the-top violence. I thought it was a good discussion but would have liked a Mick Foley or Paul Heyman on the panel to get a little more perspective from the other side.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Patterson shitting all over ECW and the more extreme hardcore stuff in that episode was awesome .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree with them that we do not ever need to go back and have those matches on every show. They should be built to. I appreciate they talk about feuds and matches telling a story and even WWE could use a bit more of that. I also believe blood is a useful and highly impactful element that should be in some matches because it enhances the brutality of the contest, can be an excellent tool for telling a story, plus a great visual. I mean look at what blood did for matches like Piper/Valentine, Austin/Bret, Michaels/Taker, Eddie/JBL, and recently Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Patterson hating on ECW made that episode for me, great stuff, it's a shame someone like Foley wasn't on as there could have been a great back and forth on ECW. 

Agree with Patterson totally though, Hardcore is great when it has a purpose and a reason and has been built towards not when it is just something to hide the fact your talent can't wrestle.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, that Austin/Taker/Trips match is fucking TERRIBLE , and one of the worst matches I've seen from either guy TBH.

For somebody who is currently watching an ECW DVD, I can easily say that I'm 50/50 on hardcore wrestling. I thought what ECW did was FAR more compelling than what the scrubs in CZW do today (besides the likes of New Jack, Sandman, and the like... THEY SUCK). They had alot of guys who could go out there and really WORK, but they opted to go for a more "hardcore" style and really fuck things up. 

ECW was the best company in the world (and peaked) in 1995, and throughout the company's history I felt that they had a few awesome series's of matches (RVD-LYNN, Eddie-Malenko) with most being more "nearfall" type matches like Tanaka-Awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As bad as the likes of WWF and WCW were in 95, I doubt anything from ECW would be better than the top 5 for WWF. Not sure about WCW, off the top of my head I can only remember one great match (Arn/Flair), but there are likely to be more .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ECW being the best in the WORLD is nuts, but in 95 they had Benoit, Guerrero, 2 Cold Scorpio, Cactus and Mikey Whipwreck. Wouldn't be surprised that, if I actually bothered to watch more of this stuff, they were the best promotion in the US. I think ECW could have been the best promotion in the US in 1999. They had Tajiri. They win. Of course I haven't seen too much of it. But they had Tajiri so I'm just assuming. I could see the argument for 2000 as well depending on how much a person likes WWF. I've seen like 45 matches from Tajiri in 2000 and I'd put him ahead of anyone in the US that year pretty comfortably. Throw in potentially real good stuff with dudes like Super Crazy, Corino, Whipwreck, PSICOSIS, Little Guido and I wouldn't be surprised if they were better than WWF that year. They were obviously better than WCW. Um, pretty sure I could have started a promotion in 2000 at six years old in my backyard and it would have been better than WCW.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TONS of great shit from ECW in 95, like ;

- Guerrero-Malenko Series
- Rey Mysterio-Psicosis Series
- ANYBODY (2CS, Al Snow, etc) vs Benoit
- Marty Jannetty vs Shane Douglas
- Any tag featuring Taz, Eddie, Malenko, or Benoit
- Any match or promo from Cactus Jack (CANE DEWEY!)
- Steve Austin becoming Steve Austin
- CRAZY OLD MAN FUNK

AWESOME.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ooh I forgot about Rey/Psicosis/Juvi. Yeah, They were definitely better than WCW in 95. WWF had more good stuff than people remember purely because most of the wrong guys were pushed and wrestlers like Owen Hart weren't, but ECW could be better.

I've said this ever since I've watched the 96 yearbook which had a BUNCH of enjoyable ECW on there, but ECW is way, way, way better than some of the rep it has.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWF 1995 had SID. I win .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well prime example of why ECW gets so much shit ; Rhyno vs The Sandman (watching it now) ... It's just a bunch of mindless weapons being incorporated into a match with a bunch of near falls, it doesn't tell a story at all and it's pretty fucking garbage I must say.

At times they had SO much talent, and I think 1995 they would have been the best simply because they had something for everyone ; You had the amazing wrestling talents of Benoit/Guerrero/Malenko, the high flyers in Mysterio/Juvi/Psicosis, the mindless hardcore guys like Sandman/Sabu, and the guys who owned on the mic like Funk/Foley/Austin. Fucking AWESOME talent roster right there, and I still stand by my claim that Guerrero-Malenko (2/3 Falls) is the greatest match in ECW history at ***** 3/4*.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ECW had Sid in 99 (APPARENTLY, WTF?). So yeah. I guess THEY WIN THAT. Plus, Tajiri.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WCW 1995 wins.

THE YEEEEEEEEEEETIIIIIIIIII!


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

WCW had the Yeti in 1995. Everyone wins.... 8*D

EDIT: Dammit, beat to the finish!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That fucking Hogan-Giant "DOUBLE MAIN EVENT" :lol

Hogan and Show .... Worst main event chemistry ever ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> ECW had Sid in 99 (APPARENTLY, WTF?). So yeah. I guess THEY WIN THAT. Plus, Tajiri.


Yeah Sid showed up and beat up people randomly and shit. No idea if he actually had any matches though :lmao. Fuck knows which was the better company in 99 though. WCW sucked. WWF sucked. ECW had tajiri but I'm guessing the rest sucked... .


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I'll agree on Tajiri. He was such a fucking beast in ECW, totally deserved to be ECW World Champion at some point.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tree-Bag said:


> WCW had the Yeti in 1995. Everyone wins.... 8*D
> 
> EDIT: Dammit, beat to the finish!


Great minds think alike. 

And I can't wait till I watch WWF 1999. I refuse to believe it sucked.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is it a sin for me to say that i think ECW was a overrated shitfest that ruined pro wrestling and over exposed the business? It's just like any other indy promotion out there today, imo, in terms of the fast paced, hard hitting, no selling over the top action. Is is wrong for me to say that?

So LOW shitting on ECW? :mark:

I would really love to get the pros take on it rather than a "RVD/Jerry Lynn 5 stars omg!!!!" IWC memeber.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm almost into Raw 1999 with WWE Classics on Demand. WWF in 1997 and 1998 was awesome television for the most part every week. An underrated match I watched last night was Rock/Mankind at Rock Bottom 98. It had antics from Mr. McMahon, HOT crowd, couple of sick bumps from Mankind, with brilliant character work at the finish that left both men looking strong and continued the program.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Where can I find LOW?


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=392nMWWJuMo

There you go

It's a good episode especially if you're not a fan of ECW. Never liked Patterson so much haha


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Is it a sin for me to say that i think ECW was a overrated shitfest that ruined pro wrestling and over exposed the business? It's just like any other indy promotion out there today, imo, in terms of the fast paced, hard hitting, no selling over the top action. Is is wrong for me to say that?
> 
> So LOW shitting on ECW? :mark:
> 
> *I would really love to get the pros take on it rather than a "RVD/Jerry Lynn 5 stars omg!!!!" IWC memeber.*


ECW had plenty of crap but the RVD/Lynn series is that fuckin good and they did tell stories unlike all the rest of the nonsense that may have gone on.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Clique said:


> I'm almost into Raw 1999 with WWE Classics on Demand. WWF in 1997 and 1998 was awesome television for the most part every week. An underrated match I watched last night was Rock/Mankind at Rock Bottom 98. It had antics from Mr. McMahon, *HOT crowd*, couple of sick bumps from Mankind, with brilliant character work at the finish that left both men looking strong and continued the program.


Of course it did. The show was held in Canada, Vancouver to be exact.

We really need another PPV here... Rock Bottom was the last one we had and that was 14 years ago


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Rhino was such a great heel in ECW. BEAST! No fucks were given.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Quite enjoyed Rhino's rise. The guy was like a mini version of Goldberg but his intensity was that much more... there to be honest. 

My all time favourite heel from ECW though has to be Raven. No one even comes close to touching him.

Maybe Cyrus


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

ECW gets a bad rap and it gets overrated. It had some truly good-great matches that weren't that hardcore but they are looked over. *Douglas/Bigelow* told a damn fine story, and was very similar if not the same story Flair/Vader had told before but with an ECW twist. I really enjoyed it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

People look way too deep into things. ECW was all about having a good time, and a lot of fun. That's all that matters.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Five Second Review : ECW Unreleased Vol 1*

_Disc One_

Shane Douglas vs Too Cold Scorpio (Hardcore TV 1994) : ****

Tommy Dreamer vs Raven (Hostile City Showdown 1995) : *****

Dean Malenko/2 Cold Scorpio vs Tazz/Eddie Guerrero (Hardcore TV 1995) : **** 1/2*

Dean Malenko vs Eddie Guerrero (Heatwave 1995) : ***** 1/4*

Shane Douglas vs Cactus Jack (Cyberslam 1996) : **** 1/4*

Chris Jericho vs Too Cold Scorpio (The Doctor is In 1996) : *****

_Disc Two_

RVD/Sabu vs The Eliminators (Cyberslam 1997) : *****

Sabu vs Taz (Barely Legal 1997) : **** 1/2*

Shane Douglas vs Bam Bam Bigelow (November to Remember 1997) : *** ¼*

Rob Van Dam/Sabu vs Hayabusa/Jinsei Shinzaki (Heat Wave 1998) : **** 1/4*

Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn (Hardcore TV 1998) : **** ½*

_Disc Three_

Taz vs Shane Douglas (Guilty as Charged 1999) : ** ¾*

Justin Credible/ Lance Storm vs Jerry Lynn/RVD (Heatwave 1999) : **** ¾*

Masato Tanaka vs Mike Awesome (November to Remember 1999) : **** ½*

Tazz vs Tommy Dreamer (Cyberslam 2000) : *** ¾*

Tommy Dreamer vs Justin Credible (Cyberslam 2000) : *** ¾*

The Sandman vs Rhyno (Heatwave 2000) : ** ¾*

Rhyno vs Spike Dudley ( Massacre on 34th Street 2000) : *** ½*

Jerry Lynn vs Christian York (Hardcore TV 2000) : *****

Tajiri/Mikey Whipwreck vs The F.B.I. vs Kid Kash/Super Crazy : **** 3/4*

_Thoughts_

Quick story about this DVD ; picked it up back in August, where it rotted on my shelf until about five days ago when I finally decided to watch it and get it out of the way before Christmas. While watching it I wondered to myself WHY on earth I opted to wait to watch this later in favor of DVDs such as the Top 50 Finishers, Falls Count Anywhere, Rock vs Cena, and all the other various mediocre DVDs that the E' has released this year. I put this in not expecting much, and the first match was pretty MEH with a historic moment thrown in... When I eventually got to the Malenko/Eddie matches my opinion quickly changed and I was loving every second of this set.

They put a variety of matches on this set; and not just the garbage hardcore matches that ECW became known for. We got to witness the excellent technical prowess of Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko, the high flying style of RVD and Jerry Lynn, as well as the always intense TAZ. The match selection here was excellent, as while we don't get very many "classics", it's all quality from top to bottom with only a handful of matches average or below average (most of which featuring Shane Douglas :lol ). I found that even the "garbage" style ECW matches found on this disc were done pretty damn well, and even though there was a ton of no-selling and other misc bullshit that ECW was known for, we got a story thrown into the mix such as the Raven-Dreamer match, Douglas-Foley, and Rhyno-Dudley. 

They kept guys like Sandman, New Jack, and the other misc ECW pieces of trash off of this for the most part, making the set truly feel more like a "best of" comp more than a "unreleased" comp. If you love "spotfests" , you'll probably throw four stars at a ton of these matches, mostly the matches on the disc that feature RVD, Sabu, Mike Awesome, etc. However, if you want a more concrete story told in the ring, this DVD probably isn't for you AT ALL. I tend to fluctuate back and forth with my tastes, so matches that would be ** for a purist and **** for a spot lover I tend to have somewhere in the middle, so just take my ratings and judge it from your own personal taste.

ECW isn't an acquired taste like an old school Memphis match IMO, it's more of the mindless 90s shit that I feel casuals and hardcore fans alike can enjoy, and there's matches on here for every type of fan. Technical fans will love the Malenko-Guerrero matches, as well as the last triple threat tag match on here wherein Tajiri kicks some SERIOUS fucking ass in the greatest single man performance on the entire DVD. For the individuals who just wanna download and stream their matches online, watch everything that I have rated over **** 1/2* , but I say that if you're a semi ECW fan or semi DVD collector in general, that this should be picked up. 

If anybody has a question about an individual match on the set and why I rated it that way, feel free to ask , and while I do have some complaints (NO 95-96 Lucha matches ? THE FUCK?) , the pros definitely outweigh the cons in such a way that at the moment I'd probably have this ranked as my #3 DVD of the Year (just behind Punk's and Lesnar's  ). Just gonna throw out three matches to watch on this set for you STREAMERS out there, and three matches to avoid. Otherwise, go out and buy the DVD as a last minute Christmas gift for yourself 

_Three to Watch_

Malenko-Guerrero
Lynn/RVD vs Storm/Credible
Tajiri/Whipwreck vs FBI vs Kash/Crazy

_Three to Avoid_

Sandman vs Rhyno
Taz vs Shane Douglas
Shane Douglas vs 2 Cold Scorpio

*7.5/10*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm only 15 minutes into LOW but it's good. They're not shitting on ECW at all tbh. This is what you call constructive criticism. Hayes said the same thing I said about ECW. At first it was new and exciting but they didn't know what exactly they were doing. And I totally agree with him. I say the same thing about ECW. Even though I never knew about them or watched the program at the time, it doesn't take a genius to tell where ECW went wrong.

At first 5 chair shots is amzazing, then it takes 10 to become amazing. And before you know guys are getting hit left and right and it means absolutely nothing because what was once shocking is now the norm.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked ECW for what it was. An alternative style of wrestling with some really interesting characters. I get a good amount of fun watching it.

And thanks for the Double J recommendations last night, guys. (Y)


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I got all 13 TLC matches in a torrent , all fairly decent quality with Undertaker/Edge being in 1080p :lol. I have to mention the Flair/Edge match from my previous point , really a hidden job with classic Flair blade job WOOOOOO.

* John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 
*★★★ 1/2


_*Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008* _
★★

*CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009*
★★★★

* DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 
*★★​
*Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010​*★★​
*Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010​*★★★ 1/2​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Don't like the RVD/Lynn matches. Take every complaint about Kurt Angle and multiply it by ten; that's how I feel about those. Guerrero/Malenkos I haven't watched in over three years.



Choke2Death said:


> And I can't wait till I watch WWF 1999. I refuse to believe it sucked.


It sucked. I'd be harsher with snowflakes (if I used them) than most people, but I'd be kind of surprised if I found a WWF match from 99 that's ***1/2 or better. Absolutely flabbergasted if I found a four star match. The best WWF match of 1999 I've seen is about as good as the ninth best WWE match from 2012.



Best In The North Pole said:


> If anybody has a question about an individual match on the set and why I rated it that way, feel free to ask ,


Curious about Douglas/Scorp. They have a really excellent match in 96 that's about as good as any ECW match that probably ever happened, and I don't think I've seen the 94 one so I'm wondering why it's an 'avoid' thing.




Best In The North Pole said:


> Shane Douglas vs Cactus Jack (Cyberslam 1996) : **** 1/4*


Also I really, really want to see this.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> It sucked. I'd be harsher with snowflakes (if I used them) than most people, but I'd be kind of surprised if I found a WWF match from 99 that's ***1/2 or better. Absolutely flabbergasted if I found a four star match. The best WWF match of 1999 I've seen is about as good as the ninth best WWE match from 2012.


I care about more than just the matches, though. And even then, I've seen a few quality matches such as Mankind/Rock from Royal Rumble and Rock/Taker from King of the Ring.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watching the aftermath to Rock/Foley from RR on the Beyond The Mat doc is really interesting. Those two crackin' jokes after Foley takes like 20 chair shots off the head.

As for '99, loved it as a kid but watching stuff now it's rather disappointing.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The TV product in '99 wasn't any good either. It still baffles me how RAW's ratings were so damn high in '99. Man, Nitro must have been really shitty.

As for the PPVs, yawn. The style of the of matches during this time period just sucked imo. Every damn match was a brawl. INo matter what on RAW or PPV every match, they brawled.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I liked Nitro in '99....  2000..... Different story, man it bombed in 2000.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm more looking forward towards 2000, I admit that. The ring work looks a lot more interesting to watch. With the arrival of the GOAT and all, I'm not surprised.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd like Choke2Death to do a non-biased as possible, best matches of CM Punk review.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Tree-Bag said:


> I liked Nitro in '99....  2000..... Different story, man it bombed in 2000.


The only positive things that came out of WCW in 2000 were the awesome Goldberg vs Scott Steiner match at Fall Brawl, the ladder match between the Jung Dragons and 3 Count at Starrcade, The Natural Born Thrillers, and Scott Steiner's promos. Other than that, most of the stuff from WCW 2000 were atrocious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The best ECW matches came from WWECW :agree:.

Nitro 2001, now THAT is where its at. Steiner is awesome. Not "classic matches" awesome, but STEINER awesome. He has a handicap match one week against like 4 Cruiserweights and he just fucking KILLS them and its probably the greatest thing ever.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I'd like Choke2Death to do a non-biased as possible, best matches of CM Punk review.


You and me both, that'd be an interesting read. And I don't think he'll have a problem with that seeing as how he actually does gives Phil Brooks some positive remarks (although it comes at rare times), especially match-wise, so I'm sure he'd be pretty content with doing this.

Ironically enough, I'm having the urge to do a 'best matches of Punk' review...


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

VladMan2012 said:


> You and me both, that'd be an interesting read. And I don't think he'll have a problem with that seeing as how he actually does gives Phil Brooks some positive remarks (although it comes at rare times), especially match-wise, so I'm sure he'd be pretty content with doing this.
> 
> Ironically enough, I'm having the urge to do a 'best matches of Punk' review...


I was only joking, lol. Just something funny that crossed my mind when I read his post. The fact he'd have to watch most Punk matches again to give ratings on them would be the best part. :cool2

But seriously though, if you want to do one, go for it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

VladMan2012 said:


> You and me both, that'd be an interesting read. And I don't think he'll have a problem with that seeing as how he actually does gives *Phil Brooks* some positive remarks (although it comes at rare times), especially match-wise, so I'm sure he'd be pretty content with doing this.
> 
> Ironically enough, I'm having the urge to do a 'best matches of Punk' review...


Really?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I think VladMan used ''Phil Brooks'' as a joke in reference to how a lot of the Punk haters often call him ''Phil''. If he didn't, then that's random.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FuckChristmas said:


> The best ECW matches came from WWECW :agree:.
> 
> Nitro 2001, now THAT is where its at. Steiner is awesome. Not "classic matches" awesome, but STEINER awesome. He has a handicap match one week against like 4 Cruiserweights and he just fucking KILLS them and its probably the greatest thing ever.


And since people will no doubt want to see this match (mainly looking at Yeah ), http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...hts-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport#.UNZhyW-fGSo


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

STEINER defines epic. I used to only watch his promos during Nitro.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I think VladMan used ''Phil Brooks'' as a joke in reference to how a lot of the Punk haters often call him ''Phil''.


Pretty much, yeah. It's the haters comeback response to Punk since he usually refers to Rock as "Dwayne."


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Got Jericho 3 disc, Edge Decade of Decadence, Jake Roberts Pick your Poison, and RVD One of a Kind today at a used dvd/music store for like 30 bucks(Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

VladMan2012 said:


> Pretty much, yeah. It's the haters comeback response to Punk since he usually refers to Rock as "Dwayne."


Knew it.

I wonder if this upcoming Rock/Punk feud with have Punk calling Rock ''Dwayne'' and Rock responding with calling him ''Phil''. I hope not. fpalm


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey DWAYNE, I've been champ for 400 days. I NEVER LEAVE. YOU LEAVE ALL THE TIME DWAYNE

Well Phil, you are a roodie poo twinkle twinkle little star bitch.

That's unfortunately how I see their feud going. Punk using the fact he's had a longer title reign than Rock's been around in like a decade, while Rock makes up shitty kiddie jokes and they both use each other's real names .


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I am up for an all out proper WWE type brawl match right now and I want you guys to give me your best..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Austin Vs Dude Love from Over the Edge 98 .


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Ah yes, I have actually been meaning to re-watch that. I remember someone mentioning that match in here a few days ago and I remembered it being one of my favourite Austin matches. Thank you.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

After Austin/Dude Love Over the Edge '98 (which is great), Rock/Triple H at Backlash '99 is pretty good. Also Triple H/Austin No Mercy '99 is pretty good, too.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> After Austin/Dude Love Over the Edge '98 (which is great), Rock/Triple H at Backlash '99 is pretty good. Also Triple H/Austin No Mercy '99 is pretty good, too.


I hope you mean Rock/HHH at Backlash '00 

I've seen it way too many times I could call the moves for god sake :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BACKLASH 2000. What a fucking PPV. Recorded it to VHS when it aired on Channel 4 over here, then when we got our first DVD recorder, the first day we had it I set the VHS player up to it and recorded Backlash onto DVD . Then bought the actual DVD when SilverVision released it as a Tagged Classic .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yep, my bad. Damn Attitude era brawls and years mix in so many years later, haha.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> BACKLASH 2000. What a fucking PPV. Recorded it to VHS when it aired on Channel 4 over here, then when we got our first DVD recorder, the first day we had it I set the VHS player up to it and recorded Backlash onto DVD . Then bought the actual DVD when SilverVision released it as a Tagged Classic .


CHANNEL FUCKING FOUR!!!! Nostalgia running wild, brother!

One of my favourite PPVs of all time though. From start to finish it was brilliant. I say it and I bet a lot of other people do but it's what Wrestlemania 2000 SHOULD of been. It's worth it for fucking Malenko/Scotty alone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Posted this on my BLOG (I have a blog. Its a blog. My blog), thought it would make for a good thread here with other peoples throwing out their own too .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, so a new written content series I'm trying . Basically, I'm going to take a year of wrestling for one company, look at all the PPV's from that specific year, and put together an 8 match supercard! There are some rules though:

Only 8 matches
All titles must be defended, no repeated title defences
Each wrestler can only be used once

Simple! So, to start this new series, I'll go with my absolute favourite year in wrestling; WWF 2000!

*The Card*

*Light Heavyweight Title Match*

_Dean Malenko Vs Scotty 2 Hotty (Backlash) _- Lets face it, until Rey showed up in 2002, any kind of LH/CW title in WWF/E meant absolute shit lol. So even in a great year like 2000, LH matches worth mentioning are few and far between. Malenko was champion for the majority of the year, but rarely defended it. In fact, I think this is the only PPV match the title got, so no surprise that its on my supercard. That being said, it absolutely deserves to be here because its AWESOME. Probably the greatest match S2H has been involved in, and without a doubt the best Malenko match in WWF.

*Womens Title Match*

_Ivory Vs Lita (Survivor Series)_ - You know something, I actually believe the womens title got more exposure in 2000 than the LH title! Stephanie won it early in the year and just kinda had it. Then Lita came along, got as over as any guy on the roster, and main evented a Raw to win the title! Some defences here and there against the likes of Ivory and Jacqueline prior to this match, but I don't recall anything on PPV until this one. And with the only other one I can remember being at Armageddon and lasting about 2 minutes, I had no choice but to use this match. Its ok, nothing special. Lita blades like a champ. That's about it.

*Hardcore Title Match*

_Shane McMahon Vs Steve Blackman (SummerSlam) _- FUN. That's the best way to describe this one. The Hardcore title was never a big deal once Mankind first lost it back in... late 98/early 99. It was passed around the boys more than Melina. Crash Holly made a name for himself by holding it a million times, and for introducing the 24/7 rule that made for some great TV. The Blackman got hold of the belt... and actually made it credible. He defeated all comers, and was able to tap into his martial arts background in a way he never could before, which made him pretty darn popular at the time. Shane ended up winning it after being helped by half the roster, but before he could celebrate Foley announced he would defend it against Blackman at SummerSlam... and the 24/7 rule would be put on hold until the match so he couldn't drop the belt before hand and back out! Anywho, the match is a ton of fun. Crazy spots, lots of run-ins, and then THAT spot. Insane. Maybe not the best hardcore match of the year, but certainly the best on PPV and a worthy addition to this super PPV!

*European Title Match*

_Eddie Guerrero Vs Essa Rios (Backlash)_ - Match #2 from Backlash, and I have a sneaky suspicion that there will be another (and by "sneaky suspicion" I mean I actually know. Because I made this list  ). Hell, the Backlash PPV is pretty much a perfect PPV for 2000 on its own. But hey, where's the fun in that? So this match. Eddie was transitioning into a babyface at the time thanks to his association with Chyna, and to help, they started tagging Eddie and Essa together. Unfortunately Lita kept screwing things up for the team and Chyna got pissed, so the MEN had to sort things out! Lol. Really good match, nice mix of the Mexican style as well as some more mat based technical stuff too (from Eddie). Finish seemed a little odd if I'm remembering it correctly, but the rest of the match was good. Chyna gets stripped afterwards, which is a shame. Should have been Lita, but Chyna stripped her on Smackdown the week before or something, so this was Lita's revenge.

*Intercontinental Title Match*

_Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho (Backlash)_ - Told you! Another Backlash match . And a tremendous match at that for the IC title. Benoit and Jericho wrestled numerous times in 2000, both on TV and PPV. Triple threat with Angle at WM, Submissions match at JD (close call between that match and this one), and a 2 out of 3 falls match at SummerSlam (a little disappointing tbh). Not only could these guys wrestle well together, but they really knew how to bring out the HATE~! in each other and into their matches, which made their feud really fun to watch. From their matches in Japan, WCW and WWF/E, I'd say this is their best match behind the 2001 RR Ladder match. Some people don't like/are confused by the finish, but I dig it.

*Tag Team Titles Match*

_The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - Triangle Ladder Match (WrestleMania 2000) _- Oh man, the amount of great tag matches to come out of 2000 both on PPV and TV is pretty insane. Easily the best tag division in the company since the mid to late 80's. And at the centre of this amazing division were these 3 teams. They all had fantastic chemistry with each other, and no matter the match type (normal, ladder, table, TLC, cage), they put on a great match. Very close call between this and TLC from SummerSlam, but I went with this one because in all honesty its just my favourite. SS *might* be a little better (not by much if any), but I love the WM match. A lot of people get confused and think its a TLC match because they use tables and chairs, but its just a triangle ladder match that gave the company the idea for TLC in the first place. The table walkway set up on top of two ladders is something I'd never seen before, and I don't think I've seen since either. Very creative (though for all I know they did it in ECW or something lol) and very cool. The way the table below it absolutely SHATTERS into pieces at the end when someone gets thrown off the walkway through it is amazing too.

*#1 Contenders Match*

_The Rock Vs The Big Show (No Way Out 2000)_ - Well, 7 titles to be defended on an 8 card show means I needed to find something else to fill the gap. I did want an Undertaker match to fill the gap here, but unfortunately the only PPV matches worth going on a supercard like this were for the WWF Title, which can't be used twice, and unfortunately there are better title matches in the year. So after looking over all the PPV cards, I managed to find the best non title match with wrestlers not already used up. Always liked this match, and I LOVE the finish too. Never been a fan of Rock, but he worked well with Show here. If I could repeat wrestlers on the card then this match wouldn't have made it, but I can't go breaking my own rules, so this will have to do. But hey, at least its still good!

*WWF Title Match*

_Triple H Vs Cactus Jack - Street Fight (Royal Rumble)_ - Best WWF/E Title Match ever? Probably. Only other that comes close off the top of my head is Punk/Bryan from Over the Limit 2012 and Punk/Cena from Money in the Bank 2011. This match is just incredible. Foley's performance was outstanding. HHH, despite having won the title a couple of times at this point already and had changed his style from a more "technical" style to brawling, still wasn't seen as a "tough guy" and credible champion UNTIL this match. Foley essentially MADE The Game here, and looked better himself than he's ever looked before too. Without a doubt THE only choice for Main Event and WWF Title Match on my Perfect PPV in 2000!


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Damn that is a good card. Considering you can pretty much use a wrestler once it's quite tricky but I think you have pretty much nailed that down to a tee. HHH/Cactus is a near perfect match up in my view. Just shows how good the year 2000 was for all out entertainment and we didn't have Austin for the majority of it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FuckChristmas said:


> And since people will no doubt want to see this match (mainly looking at Yeah ), http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...hts-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport#.UNZhyW-fGSo


Swear to GOD I was going to say I wanted to see this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cookie Monster said:


> Damn that is a good card. Considering you can pretty much use a wrestler once it's quite tricky but I think you have pretty much nailed that down to a tee. HHH/Cactus is a near perfect match up in my view. Just shows how good the year 2000 was for all out entertainment and we didn't have Austin for the majority of it.


2000 = GOAT year for WWF .

Gonna have to give 2001 a go next, though with all the WCW titles it might be confusing .



Yeah1993 said:


> Swear to GOD I was going to say I wanted to see this.


I know you well .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Thoughts on Awesome-Tanaka (the series) ? Wouldn't throw **** at their N2R 1999 match, but I'd definitely throw *** 1/2 at it for the excitement. My favorite Awesome-Tanaka match would definitely be their ONS 2005 match with one of the greatest camera angles of all time in it.
> 
> Tanaka gets powerbombed through a table and the camera stays on him, when seconds later we see Awesome flying out of nowhere on top of him :lol


I might be the biggest mark for Awesome vs Tanaka matches and Mike Awesome in general. I'd have both the November 2 Remember & ONS matches at ****1/2. CARNAGE.



Best In The North Pole said:


> - HHH-Steiner II : ***
> - Austin-Bischoff : *1/2 **
> - Hogan-Rock II : ****
> 
> TERRIBLE.


*
N/R
DUD

VERY TERRIBLE. Although, Austin vs Bischoff gets a pass from it being a non-match squash. Being billed as a main event though. That's the problem. It's what Cena vs Ace from Over The Limit should have been. Never the best match for PPV, imo.

Yep, WWF 2000 has to be their best overall year. From every standpoint. Great matches, entertaining moments, HOT crowds, wonderful characters that fans cared about, the works. It's beautiful.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HEY! Great fucking idea... Was gonna do 2005 but then I'd have to get matches for the Womens, Cruiserweight, and BOTH SETS of tag team titles... SO I'ma just do something more recent ;

*2011 : The Ultimate PPV Card*

*United States Championship*

_Dolph Ziggler vs Zack Ryder (TLC)_ - WOO WOO WOO, YOU KNOW IT ! The push that they royally fucked up comes in as the perfect opener for our PPV here. Dolph bumps all around the place in arguably Ryder's best match, while Zack's dad is in attendance with a whole ton of broskis ready to cheer on their guy. Again, I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE THEY FUCKED HIM UP, but this is an awesome match that gets the crowd ready for one hell of a show

*Intercontinental Championship*

_Cody Rhodes vs John Morrison (Hell in a Cell) -_ YEAH... There really weren't alot of choices here for this one, as Wade Barrett/Ezekial Jackson shared the IC title for quite some time in 2011. After a really hot opener, this stays under 10 minutes so we can keep the crowd's momentum into one of our more larger scale matches , which would be....

*Non-Title Match*

_Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett (Summerslam) -_ Now THIS was an awesome match on an awesome fucking card in Summerslam 2011, and what I feel to be Wade's best match in the WWE. Bryan and Wade went stiff as fuck for this one, with Bryan selling Wade's offense really good and working around some of Wade's limitations brilliantly, making WADE actually interesting to me (a feat that's impossible by 99 percent of workers). This is more of a top heavy card, but this is an awesome match to get things moving faster

*Tag Team Championship*

_Air Boom vs Awesome Truth (Night of Champions) -_ This match was FAR superior than it had any right to be. You take four workers that I don't care about in the fucking slightest (half of which I downright fucking hate) and you get a pretty damn good match with some good Babyface in Peril storytelling and a really great hot-tag near the end. The crowd by this point would probably be like "WTF, QUICK HITTING MATCHES" since like every single match I've picked so far was originally an opener :lol

*World Heavyweight Championship*

_Randy Orton vs Christian (Over the Limit) -_ This is where shit starts to go down and business begins to pick the fuck up. This match was fucking awesome storytelling with callbacks to their previous match, a ton of great nearfalls, some good character development, and best of all ; it was fucking non-stop excitement. The first of our three big matches for the night, and a perfect segway into the CO-main event....

*No Holds Barred*

_The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVII) -_ It's a secret to absolutely nobody that I think this is one of the greatest matches ever, and superior to their next years match up in the cell. The storytelling is so subtle and the violence is so superbly brutal that this match in my eyes is almost a lost art. By the end of the match, this was 100 percent pure emotion from both men, without anything over the top or melodramatic. You get two veterans going all out in a brutal warn with one of the best near-falls and some of the best subtle drama ever involved... You can't go wrong

*Diva's Championship*

_Kelly Kelly vs Beth Phoenix (Summerslam) -_ After the Taker-HHH thrill ride, people will want to take a bathroom break before the main event. If for some reason they actually WANT to watch a match, they could go ahead and watch this surprisingly good contest between Kelly and Beth at SUMMERSLAM. Around Two stars, decentish, and good enough to give the crowd a breather...

*WWE Championship*

_John Cena vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank) -_ Here we go. This match currently ranks as the 7th greatest WWE/WWF match of all time personally, as we get one of the hottest storylines of all time translating into one of the best worked matches ever. Character development 101 here, with Punk and Cena brilliantly crafting a very deep story like only they can do in today's WWE. The atmosphere was off the charts, the nearfalls and subsequent kickouts were a thing of beauty, and it's all capped off by one of the greatest moments and endings to a match in WWE history. Simply put... *Perfect*.

So yeah.... Not as great as a 2000 based card due to so many championships having virtually NO great matches on PPV in 2011, but I'd be pretty damn proud if WWE ever put out a show of that caliber... EVER. The first half of this show would merely be the primer to the greatest two hour stretch of PPV this business has probably ever seen. Can't think of too many double main events better than the HHH/Taker & Punk/Cena combo TBH. 

Plus... IT GETS FUCKING HARD TO DO THIS WHEN THERE'S ONLY LIKE 4 OR 5 GUYS WHO PUT ON CLASSIC MATCHES CURRENTLY IN THE COMPANY :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Beth vs Kelly happened at Summerslam, Night of Champions, & Hell in a Cell. Not at Money in the Bank, haha. That was an awful Kelly Kelly vs Brie Bella match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WELL FUCK ME THEN...

It's kinda funny because I figured that was wrong. Shows how much I care about the fucking Divas division.... Not changing it because you could replace it with literally any Divas match nowadays and it would have the same effect :lol

A 2012 card would be much better with Sheamus/Bryan , Punk/Jericho, HHH/Taker, and Cena/Brock as your quadruple main event 

I CHANGED IT. FUCK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's all trash. I wouldn't even add one, tbf.

So that plan was all based on PPV matches only? Wow, the Intercontinental Championship really does get shafted then. I'd pick Rhodes vs Booker T from TLC. The only one I thought was along the lines of being "good". Rhodes vs Morrison in a more legit match obviously could have been. Oh, wait forgot about Rhodes vs Dibiase. It wasn't bad. Crowd crapped on it only. Which was their own fault for not even building it up.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Best In The North Pole said:


> WELL FUCK ME THEN...
> 
> It's kinda funny because I figured that was wrong. Shows how much I care about the fucking Divas division.... Not changing it because you could replace it with literally any Divas match nowadays and it would have the same effect :lol
> 
> ...


Which one? :troll:troll:troll


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So it was SUMMERSLAM that made the cut. 

so many divas marks were furious when WWE trolled them by having Kelly own Beth for months till Hell in a Cell :lol


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just watched the Legends of Wrestling Monday Night Wars. Am I the only one annoyed with Michael Hayes' "WCW tried to put us out of business!" whining? He says the same crap on every particular WCW discussion. I like Hayes but it gets old real quick. 

I also loved seeing Eric Bischoff own Jerry Lawler a little bit after Lawler brought up WCW stealing WWE's talent using Kevin Nash and Scott Hall as an example, even though both Nash and Hall worked for WCW before heading to the WWE. :lol I may not like Bischoff but man does he have the answers to everything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They were bitter about the tactics. Understandable, but dropping it wouldn't hurt. Hayes being a bit of an asshole didn't surprise me. But, he covered his tracks after the mini-rant by claiming he's not particularly angry at Eric. Anymore.

Hall as The Diamond Studd.
Nash as a Master Blaster, OZ, & Vinnie Vegas.

Yep. Shut them up. _(lol at the "but they were STARS in WWF" rebuttal.)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The last Diva I cared for in the WWE was Mickie. When I went on hiatus from wrestling and came back, I realized how bad the Divas division was... Now I almost pretend that it doesn't exist :lol

AND I MEANT EXTREME RULES YOU FUCKER... I'm still raging about that.... Giving Rock/Cena over 30 fucking minutes and giving two individuals far more capable of stealing the show EIGHTEEN FUCKING SECONDS. FUCK YOU !


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, WWF/WWE was never like WCW. Always given the main event the most amount of time on the cards while the undercard bouts don't. Granted Sheamus vs Danielson was a main event. 18 seconds is just...wrong. But the divas tag needed 6 minutes or even occur at all. Fuck off with that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania XXVIII is so fucking overrated IMO that it blows my fucking mind. It has two AWESOME matches, but for a four hour show to have one hour of quality just blows my fucking mind. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a _GOOD_ show, but I'll be damned if it's not middle of the pack as far as MANIAS are concerned.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Eric could have been humbled to shit by being told that he had talented guys yet never actually used them properly, and who who drew money when the WWF grabbed them. Mick Foley comes to mind. Ever heard of a guy named Steve Austin?

I find most WrestleManias really overrated.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It beat out WrestleMania 27. That's the positive. Or how I choose to look at it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania XXVII Sucked balls for a Wrestlemania. 8 match card, four matches fucking SUCK (including the worst Wrestlemania main event ever) , three matches are in the ***** - **** 1/2* range, and one all time classic. 

If Trips-Taker doesn't happen ; Mania XXVII is easily a bottom three Mania ever IMO, where it's a bottom... WHATEVER now... I need to watch every Mania once I get the anthology for Xmas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Triple H sucked. So I REALLY dislike the event. 

Edge vs Del Rio ~ ***1/2
Rhodes vs Mysterio ~ ***
Punker vs Orton ~ ***1/2

Rest can fuck off.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WM27 is probably in my top five "shows I never want to go back and watch ever again". Certain different reasons for that. One of them being that I'd be reminded in a nostalgic way of something that was happening while I was watching that I didn't know about that came down to a mistake I made that I'm still feeling the effects of today. One of the other reasons being the show kinda stunk.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Witnessing Lawler/Cole and Cena/Miz from that show killed me a little inside. The fact that they gave Lawler/Cole the time it got was just fucking ridiculous.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's not forget the fact that ROCK completely fucked up basically the entire show with one of the worst opening promos in HISTORY. I mean... MY GOD.....

"When I say Wrestle, you say Mania , WRESTLE...MANIA....WRESTLE.....MANIA!"

WHAT THE FUCK ?!?!?!?!?! How does any sane human being consider him to be the greatest of all time when he comes out and is fucking terrible as that ?

That's my 1000th post folks. Fuck... That promo was AWFUL.

EDIT : COLE-LAWLER is one of my candidates for worst match in history. The payoff with Bret coming out would have been awesome here instead of OTL. Cole also should have been piledriven for his shit.... Piledriver, Stunner, Sharpshooter... COLE IS DEAD.... Wrestlemania History


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It really, really was. I don't care HOW much hype that match was getting from the TV shows. Nearly 14 minutes? IT WAS ACTUALLY A MATCH? The fact it didn't go under 5 minutes and give fans what they wanted and all expected to see was truly one of the most confusing moments I've ever seen from wrestling show. What happened at Over The Limit is what WrestleMania should have been. Lets give the 8 man tag 1 minute and Michael Cole 13+. Way to go, WWE.

4 DUDs, an overrated 30 minute match, & a very poor main event make that WrestleMania pretty lousy. Which is funny, b/c I can watch it no problem. It doesn't have a stigma attached to it say like a PPV along the lines of TNA Against All Odds 2010 where it's a chore to watch. WrestleMania 27 is simply just a very bad event overall. Absolute garbage for a WrestleMania. That's where it really takes a beating. Is b/c it's meant to be a WrestleMania. It's like a trainwreck version of WrestleMania 21. The whole good undercard, but main events flopped kind of deal.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember being very interested in Sheamus/Bryan and the whole night I was just like "oh, they must being saving it for later". And then I found out it didn't even make the show after the shit I watched the entire night and I was pretty upset.

Thought that 8 man could have made The Corre look good but instead the entrances went longer than the match. :/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania XXI is the ultimate rollercoaster of an event for me. Three all time classics (Taker-Orton, Angle-HBK, MITB I) , three complete FUCKFESTS (WWE Championship, Sumo match, Divas match), capped off with a pretty decent main event and opened with probably the most overrated match of all time. I personally fucking LOVE the show, but at the end of they day it's such an up and down experience from start to finish.

Love shows that mix their great stuff and bad stuff throughout the show instead of clustering all the bad (TWENTY EIGHT) together at the beginning or something


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

WrestleMania XXVI is underrated. Don't know why people hated it so much when it first happened. All matches on the card were solid to great, and of course, the main-event was fantastic. I remember reading reviews where people gave WrestleMania 27 a HIGHER rating then WrestleMania 26, which blew me away. WrestleMania 27 is an ultimate shit-fest. Didn't enjoy anything on that card with the exception of Taker/Triple H, and the only reason I enjoyed that was because of how awful everything else was. Rock never clicked as a guest host, and the opening promo was far too long, not to mention, he had backstage skits with Mae Fucking Young fpalm

Edge/Del Rio was honestly a good match, but should've been ATLEAST 5 minutes longer. You should NEVER have a World Championship match in fucking 11 minutes. The minimum amount for a World Title/WWE Title match should be atleast 15-17 minutes. Cody/Mysterio and CM Punk/Orton did it for some people, but not for me. Miz/Cena was absolutely terrible. It should've been Punk in there after winning the Rumble in the first place instead of the reality TV star who couldn't wrestle worth shit. Right up there with Orton/Triple H as worst WWE Title match in WrestleMania history, if not THE worst. 3/10 show honestly. Never want to see that WrestleMania again. 

Anyways, back to WrestleMania 26, Triple H/Sheamus was enjoyable, MITB was good, Tag Titles got the right amount of time for my taste, Jericho/Edge was great and surprisingly enough, so was Cena/Batista. Of course, Shawn/Taker was brilliantly worked and told an awesome story. Great way for Shawn to go out. Legacy vs. Orton was decent for what it was. The only thing was, Rey/Punk should've gotten atleast 5 or so more minutes. Those two had a brilliant match 15 minute match at Over The Limit a couple months later, and I would've loved it if they put on a performance of that caliber at WrestleMania 26 which would've made that card all the more better, but for whatever reason, they got their time cut shor. That, AND the obvious Bret vs. Vince thing, which was brilliantly built up, but had an awful match, only surpassed by Cole and Lawler as worst in history IMO. But in retrospect, WrestleMania 26 was honestly really good, despite the McMahon/Hart bullshit. The WrestleMania overall didn't have the best build up, but it was definitely passable. 8/10.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Clark Griswold said:


> Witnessing Lawler/Cole and Cena/Miz from that show killed me a little inside. The fact that they gave Lawler/Cole the time it got was just fucking ridiculous.


Exactly. I also thought continuing their feud until the Over the Limit PPV was even more ridiculous given the fact that they put so much time into Lawler and Cole's match at WrestleMania 27 which should have ended with Lawler beating Cole. It dragged on way too long for no reason at all. The fans wanted to see Cole get his comeuppance at WrestleMania 27 but instead, it took two PPVs after that to finally see Jerry Lawler get his revenge on Cole, making their Mania match pointless. fpalm


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*TLC 2012*
Masks vs. Facial Hair: *****
Cesaro vs. Truth: ***
Barrett vs. Kingston: *1/2**
Shield vs. Ryback & Hell No: ******
Naomi vs. Eve: *DUD*
Sheamus vs. Big Show: ***1/2*
Cena vs. Ziggler: **1/2*
Overall: *5.5/10*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't see how some thought the opener to TLC was anything special. Pretty lame bout that Rhodes Scholars did their best to make moderately watchable.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I thought ziggler/cena was better than *1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*** for me after a re-watch. Went a bit too long I'd say. It seems to be a very polarizing match. I've seen people think it's great, good, or bad.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ziggler/Cena was okay-ish. Ziggler's bumping and selling were the highlights, but most of what went on didn't make any sense. Cena's botching left and right, psychology was mind-numbing etc.

The best thing about the match was Cena's facial expression after the match, where he is shown to be contemplating the irony of life.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I don't see how some thought the opener to TLC was anything special. Pretty lame bout that Rhodes Scholars did their best to make moderately watchable.


Couldn't disagree more. Everything in the match made sense. I could break it down move-by-move and explain why said wrestler did what he did. Spectacular opener. Everything a tables match should be.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two spots happened. I can think of 100 ways a tables match could be done better. First one for free: Don't put Sin Cara in it.

Lame match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Moustache made that match, I liked the opener.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't care about spots. The finish was the only spot that mattered in that it came out of nowhere, but looking back it made perfect sense. Like you slap yourself for not knowing it was going to happen.

Sin Cara was pretty awesome in the match. Not sure what you were watching. What did he do wrong?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

also


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't for me. It's ok though. I've noticed Light & myself rarely agreeing on matches, so it doesn't come as a surprise. He and I only seem to collectively match up on our thoughts with some great matches. Like Jericho vs Michaels No Mercy '08 & Cena vs Brock Extreme Rules.



> I don't care about spots. The finish was the only spot that mattered in that it came out of nowhere, but looking back it made perfect sense. Like you slap yourself for not knowing it was going to happen.
> 
> Sin Cara was pretty awesome in the match. Not sure what you were watching. What did he do wrong?


by spots I mean moments. It was boring, dull, I didn't like it. Except for the ending.

He didn't do anything. That's what he did wrong. I can't even recall him doing a single move except for his armdrag he does in every match. Mysterio too. It was all Rhodes Scholars.

I'm just thankful the moron, Cara, didn't botch the hell out of the match.

KENNY - STEINER :mark:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Hit a bit of a bad stretch during these TLC matches :lol . You really can see that once it became an annual PPV the quality goes down. Also becoming a bit desensitized to some SPOTS~! after watching 10+ TLC matches .

* CM Punk Vs Alberto Del Rio Vs The Miz - TLC XII TLC 2011*
★★★1/2​*The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012​*★★★★1/4​


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

I'm enjoying the hate on WM 27 on the previous page. Fuck that show.



FuckChristmas said:


> BACKLASH 2000. What a fucking PPV. Recorded it to VHS when it aired on Channel 4 over here,


My VCR fucked up and it didn't record. I seriously cried when I found out the next morning. Inconsolable.


----------



## Das Wunderberlyn (Jan 18, 2011)

wm 27 was terrible. apart from hhh/taker and maybe del rio/edge, rest was tv quality and dont get me started on the main event. what baffles me is that they had a pretty decent (ppvs)EC and ER in between.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 27: Rey/Cody was great, Undertaker/HHH was awesome, rest was shitty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll say it again b/c it's true, Undertaker vs Triple H is lol worthy.

Tries so hard to be epic it's pathetic. Taker is better than that crap.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MOTY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You wacky son of a gun.

Punk vs Cena - MITB. boosh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's a very close 2nd .

Hated HHH/Undertaker when I saw it live .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I really liked DelRio/Edge.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> That's a very close 2nd .
> 
> Hated HHH/Undertaker when I saw it live .


idk what changed for you from live - disc, but it remained the same for me. 

Yeah, Edge vs Del Rio is really good, imo. I love all the aspects about the match. Christian & Brodus played their roles perfectly. Added more to it other than it only having solid action inside the ropes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't like Edge/Del Rio much at all. Edge was pretty shitty for the last 5 years of his career, and Del Rio was even worse back then that he is now. He might not have been as dull, but his in ring work wasn't even solid then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does it help that I like Del Rio's ring work before nowadays? b/c I think it might have, haha. Good match.

Del Rio's matches vs Christian were (Y) too.

vs Danielson on Smackdown following Summerslam :mark:


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> Didn't like Edge/Del Rio much at all. *Edge was pretty shitty for the last 5 years of his career,* and Del Rio was even worse back then that he is now. He might not have been as dull, but his in ring work wasn't even solid then.


I totally agree. Especially the last 2, man the drop off was incredibly noticeable. 2010 was quite possibly the worst year a main eventer could possibly have, its up there with HHH's 2003.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Edge's 2010? Yeah, it was pretty bad. Started off solid vs Jericho. At least, I loved the matches vs Jericho. Only other matches I can remember not sucking were vs Christian on RAW, vs Swagger a few times, & the TLC match. 

I know Cal personally hates the TLC, but I dig it. Think it's a blast.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Del Rio/Christian matches are probably the only Del Rio matches I genuinely like and give a shit about.

Edge's 2010: I liked WM Vs Jericho. And that's about it. Was never too high on the Christian match tbh solid TV bout but nothing overly special.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd have to re-watch the Edge vs Christian match to know how I feel about it with a rating attached. I know I enjoyed it when I saw it. I'm sure that will stick.

Literally everything else Edge did that year is not coming together on if it was worth seeing. I know I liked a match vs Miz on Smackdown. Once again, have to watch and see if it would hold up. umm...yeah. I really think that's it. Sure as hell can jump to his bad matches. vs Orton & Kane. Yikes. Go figure once 2011 begins Edge has a great Last Man Standing Match vs Kane on Smackdown. Should have slapped the gimmick on them back at Survivor Series. It would have made things bearable. No hope vs Orton. The magic from 2004 & 2007 was gone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't think much to that LMS match either lol . That whole feud was just pure trash as well. Yeah loved it though :side:.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I thought Edge from 2006-2008 was awesome. Loved his Rated R stuff in 2006 and 2007 and in '08 he had that awesome feud with Taker. Their match at Summerslam is not only the best HIAC match of the PG era but one of the best HIAC matches of all time.

2009 was ok, he had some moments with Cena. Speaking of which, has Edge ever had a better opponent than Cena? The two always brought out the best in each other.

I HATED his 2010 run. "Spear! Spear! Spear!" was so damn annoying. Not to mention, he didn't really do much. I can't even think of any Edge moment for 2010. Although he had an awesome fatal four way on RAW. I just can't for the life of me remember who was in it lol. I believe Orton and Jericho were in it, maybe Cena was the last guy.

Oh and there is one other thing. Remember that RAW where it just started and out of nowhere Edge and Bourne were in the ring? Damn, that was awesome.

Then 2011 hit and well, that was it. Shocker of the year. It's so sad that he didn't do much in his last year. Oh well, why nitpick 1 year when he's had 12 awesome years?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> Didn't think much to that LMS match either lol . That whole feud was just pure trash as well. Yeah loved it though :side:.


I thought the LMS ruled :lol

Oh, yeah the program was AWFUL. No doubt. lolz at "killing Paul Bearer" again.



sharkboy22 said:


> I thought Edge from 2006-2008 was awesome. Loved his Rated R stuff in 2006 and 2007 and in '08 he had that awesome feud with Taker. Their match at Summerslam is not only the best HIAC match of the PG era but one of the best HIAC matches of all time.
> 
> 2009 was ok, he had some moments with Cena. Speaking of which, has Edge ever had a better opponent than Cena? The two always brought out the best in each other.
> 
> ...


Which Fatal Four Way, the PPV one? I only recall a Triple Threat match vs Orton & Jericho on RAW. And vs Jericho & Swagger on Smackdown.

Oh, remembered some Edge matches that mattered. Those tags with BOURNE. Especially the first one - Cena/Bourne vs Sheamus/Edge. Don't know how much Edge attributed to it being awesome, but it was nonetheless.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge got unbearably DULL to me in 06 once he lost the title at the RR to Cena. Working with Foley got him interesting again... and after that he died. Hated the Cena feud. Hate their chemistry together, hate their matches, hate their segments and promos together aside from the last one before their LMS match in 09 I think it was?

Rated RKO stuff was... ok. I never thought that much to their matches with DX (NYR match is hugely overrated imo), but it was probably the best his character has been since 05.

Undertaker feud... terrible. Matches were great, even underrated at points imo, but the actual segments and promos were dull and generic as fuck. HIAC is great, not their best match that year though. Best HIAC of the PG era? Yeah, but that's because they've mostly absolutely sucked . Bottom end of top 10 HIAC overall at best for me.

09 I still hated his character, but he had some good matches, mainly on TV. Was during the great Summer of SD where a group of guys were just killing it on a weekly basis, even guys I generally don't think much of (Edge and Morrison).

And then from 2010 onwards he really was utter shite with good matches being few and far between.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Edge vs Morrisson :mark:

I remember that shit as if it weer yesterday. I know it's impossible to do but we gotta try to stop talking about SD '09. Everytime someone mentions it I go into super mark mode. It was so fucking awesome that year! Even the likes of Shsd and JTG managed to have a feud and a blow off on PPV. The midcard guys were tearing it up that year. Mike Knox, Mike freaking Knox of all people was entertaining. Never thought I'd be a fan of his. There would be fatal four way matches to determine the number 1 contender for the IC title. Man, the midcard was on a roll.

Man, I don't know what it was but Hayes did a damn good job with the blue brand. You can tell actually what it was. The mission was simply to get guys out there and make them known and boy did it work.

For the past two years I've been seriously contemplating downloading a SD 2009 pack but then I remember I'll also have to watch The Undertaker's return and all the Chosen One's fuckery. SD really started to go downhill from that point. That awful segment with Taker driving the limo :lmao

But fuck me, SD was pure gold in 2009. Two legit feud of the years in Jericho/Mysterio and Punk/Hardy. Not to mention the goddamn midcard! Holy shit, I'm now remembering an episode where The Hart Foundation main evented!

The funny thing is, I didn't even get SD on TV. I used to have to wait till Saturday morning to run down to a local DVD store where I'd get a bootleg disc and watch it. Didn't know about torrents at the time. They basically torrented it and burned it to a disc. I had a huge fricking stack by the end of the year....and then my mom threw it away. If I had them, I'd probably spend all day re-watching them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly, I can't really say that doesn't describe my thoughts on Edge for the most part. I didn't hate his work in '06 or with Rated RKO by any means, but you're spot on about the Taker feud. Crap feud with GREAT matches. Cena feud was never any good. Back in '06 I enjoyed it. It wasn't stale as FUCK yet. Last Man Standing is great. TLC is overrated. Not really that good. Cena + ladders seems to never end too well.

2009 his character suffered only b/c of the random assault of championship changes. Plus being back with Vickie? Really? His work was pleasing of course. Smackdown was the tops and his matches were among many that I marked for. I elaborated on 2010 and yep, few and far between is exactly where his match quality was.

I'll always be a fan of the guy. His character took some hits in the latter years, but that's what happens when things don't change. I liked his face run in late 2010 - the end of his career. He needed it. Don't know why he went heel on RAW in 2010. Maybe with Batista leaving they needed another heel while they built Miz up? Who knows. Sheamus was the guy anyways, plus they had Jericho. 2011 was fun for the time he got to work. A little bit with Dolph following the Rumble was obnoxious, but pardon that I liked it. Had a solid little match with Justin Gabriel. And got to work some short, but totally fun matches vs DREW. Combine that with a good match at WrestleMania to go out on and one of my favorite all time Elimination Chambers then I'm sold. I can't help but get emotional seeing him come out during the HOF acknowledgement on WrestleMania 28. It's too bad he couldn't leave on his own terms. Had a hell of a career though. Regardless what a fan might personally think, I'd be happy to retire with all the success he had.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WHERE TO, TEDDY? :lmao

Despite being injured, Undertaker always had solid matches at worst when he returned. But even with the title he was kinda just hanging around until the HBK WM rematch feud started up again.

DREW FUCKING MCINTYRE.

I haven't watched wrestling on TV since like, 04. Occasionally we'd get the Sports channels back on for cheap for 3 months, but I couldn't stay up and watch Raw live so it was easier to always download, and I could download SD before it aired here anyway .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WHAT WAS THE STORY BEHIND THE BREAKING POINT SCREWJOB? Really, I don't think an answer was given :lmao

Despite that wacky stuff, I'm glad to see Smackdown in 2009 getting pimped. It's the fuckin TOPS. I've proclaimed my love to the majority of 2009 plenty of times on this site. It's too underrated. Just b/c RAW had midget court and crappy guest hosts doesn't mean the year was a total bust. Rise of DOLPH, imo.

DREW MCINTYRE. Remember he had to "feud" with Ron Killings when he debuted? Why does WWE stick that loser with amazing talent? First Drew and now recently Cesaro. At least both squashed him. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The story was: I have a family. That's what Teddy said. And that's all we got to my recollection .

09 was an awesome year overall for WWE with SD and ECW being tremendous and Superstars throwing out some great matches too. Shame Raw was so horrible. At least Chavo got squashed in a feud with Hornswoggle on a weekly basis :lmao. I shall forever treasure the memory of watching Ricky Hatton knocking Chavo out live at the Raw taping I went to .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge's years since becoming a main eventer:

2006- Amazing year. He proved himself as the best mic worker on the company during this time and was awesome pretty much every single week, he had some awesome **** matches with Foley, RVD, Cena, the ONS 6-man tag, and several other goodies like the BL triple threat, the Rated RKO/DX tag, and more. Not to mention the first and imo best cash-in which ended Cena's first reign of terror. This year is pretty much why I became a career-mark for Edge, even during his far weaker last 3 years.

2007- Started off with an awesome tag match against DX, but then while still maintaining his status as best on the mic in the company (imo of course), he was a bit irrelevant for the next few months on Raw. They kept teasing a Rated RKO break-up and finally did it which culminated in an excellent Raw match and arguably one of the best heel vs heel matches ever between Edge and Orton. He moved to SD, became WHC, and actually had a good series with Batista. Their JD match was decent, the cage match a little better, and their final match during that run at Vengeance was good. He got injured of course, and when he came back he picked up where he left off... beating Batista for the WHC. 

2008- Had a great match with Rey at RR and the NWO match was as good as it was going to get with Rey injured. He then started his feud with Taker, which while I agree with Cal may not be as good as some claim it to be outside of matches, I still think it had it had it's moments. Loved Edge's promos leading up tp and including Wrestlemania 24. Thought the feud took a bit of a drop after that and continued until Taker was "banished". The lead-up to Summerslam was awesome though with Edge going bat-shit crazy, torturing Vickie and destroying the group he was the center of. His promos for three weeks in a row were amazing and it was last period of excellence from Edge imo. The HIAC match is third best cell match of all time (behind Taker/HBK and Taker/Lesnar). The match had it all. Cell appropriate action, excellent psychology, great storytelling/call-back spots, especially with Taker at the end delivering everything Edge threw at him back, and also had an amazing spot with Edge spearing Taker through the cell. Not only the greatest cell match of the PG era, but also one of the greatest matches of the PG Era, period. Anyway, Edge comes back and this is where Edge got really really stale. The ultimate opportunist shit started getting a little overbearing at this point as he now (for some unexplained reason) got back together with Vickie, won the title at SVS, lost it at TLC, then... well... then we got to 2009.

2009- He was only there for half a year, but damn was it pretty bland as a whole. Even Edge on the mic wasn't cutting it anymore as he was on repeat in a lot of his promos and it seems he didn't have the same motivation and delivery he had once before. He won the WWE Title, lost the WWE Title, won the WHC in the same night, lost it at WM, won it at BL, lost it to Jeff at ONS (or was it ER by this point?)... meh. He started getting interesting again when he teamed with Jericho and became the Tag champs, but then he got injured shortly after.

2010- This year was pretty dreadful for Edge. I mean, the feud with Jericho, while alright, was severely disappointing by the standards it had been built up on. I dug Edge as the tweener Rumble winner leading up to Elimination Chamber, and teasing the idea of a rematch with Taker at WM26. But then after that, the feud between Edge and Jericho became "SPEAR SPEAR SPEAR!" and all that shit. The WM match was awesome, but then Jericho loses the WHC, Edge/Jericho have a cage match which Edge wins and that's the end of that. Edge then turns heel and looks to get interesting again and was even pretty badass for the first couple of weeks. Then they put him back with Vickie for a weak and have him get RKO'd for weeks before getting a spear back on Orton before the PPV. Such a shame as Edge/Orton had so much potential, but the OTL match was absolute garbage. After Edge/Orton was over, Edge became pretty irrelevant on Raw, and meh, I didn't really care as he was back to he was trying to be the Rated R Superstar again in a PG Era that wasn't going to change. It just wasn't going to work. Plus with the Nexus stuff, he got lost in the shuffle, and finally got moved back to SD and was almost immediately put in the WHC feud. Edge/Kane was pretty bad, but the TLC match Edge won the title back in was great. Promo wise, besides the first Cutting Edge with Randy after Edge turned heel, there was nothing really notable from Edge.

2011- Well, this was the end. Edge's feud with Ziggler was terrible. The match at RR was awesome though. The EC match was awesome as well. Edge/Del Rio at Mania was good itself. I suppose Edge went out as good as he was going to. The WHC after a match at WM. I still can't believe that they took the title off Edge, gave it to Ziggler, only to put it back on him right after. Then again when it came to the WWE and World Championships, that pretty much defined what Edge's main event run was all about, unfortunately. 

So yeah, 2006-2008 was great, and so was 2005 for that matter. 2009-2011 he got pretty bad, but by that point I didn't really care. I was already a permanent mark of his by that point due to his 2005-2008 years.

Edit: "Where to Teddy!" :lmao ... that segment is just one of those that's so bad, it's hilarious. Teddy's reaction only helps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ricky FATTON you mean :hmm:

I liked some bouts on RAW during 2009. Cena vs H had two matches. Second one was a general carbon copy of their previous two (not implying WrestleMania), but it was still fun to watch. I'm a mark for the first Orton vs Dibiase Jr match. Ironically on the same RAW as Cena vs Game III. Jericho & Edge got a good match out of the Colons. Not so much Primo, but Carlito was a surprise. Cena vs Michaels OWNED. As did their forgotten second match that year. Punker vs Regal was a fun bout, Cena vs Jericho had two forgotten bouts, Knox worked vs Mysterio following NWO, that mega 10 man tag post WM was tons of fun, Cena vs Swagger, Orton vs Triple H had two matches on TV that year which blew away nearly 100% of their work on PPV, Jericho vs Mysterio got to have one of their classics on a RAW, Cena vs Miz had a surprisingly good match FOLLOWING their sham at The Bash, and then the rest were quality JeriShow matches. Oh, one more, DX vs Orton & MASTERS in a submission match was pretty solid iirc.

So anything with John Cena getting time was worth a watch. Mid card suffered during RAW in '09. That's the real problem.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> WHAT WAS THE STORY BEHIND THE BREAKING POINT SCREWJOB? Really, I don't think an answer was given :lmao
> 
> Despite that wacky stuff, I'm glad to see Smackdown in 2009 getting pimped. It's the fuckin TOPS. I've proclaimed my love to the majority of 2009 plenty of times on this site. It's too underrated. Just b/c RAW had midget court and crappy guest hosts doesn't mean the year was a total bust. Rise of DOLPH, imo.
> 
> DREW MCINTYRE. Remember he had to "feud" with Ron Killings when he debuted? Why does WWE stick that loser with amazing talent? First Drew and now recently Cesaro. At least both squashed him. :mark:


I think SD 09 gets a lot of praise on this forum. One of the best dam years in wrestling imo. Sure, RAW sucked but still doens't take away from the fact that SD didn't.

The problem with RAW 09 for me was that Cena/Orton was done to death and the audience just didn't care and they will never care again. They teased it at RR '11 and the crowd was dead silent when they stared down each other.

Cena/Orton brought us some pretty average matches, although I have the I-Quit at ****1/2. I rank that match in the same line with Funk/Flair (which I have at *****) So yeah apart from one match, the matches just weren't anything special. I haven't seen the iron man match, not that I care to anyway. 

The midcard suffered badly as well. I think '09 was the year where the midcard started to go completely downhill for the WWE. Oh and of course,, guest GM fpalm

The Summerfest fpalm
The Show triple H fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You'd be surprised how often 2009 gets slapped with "RAW was terrible. That year sucked." As if RAW was the only program that was airing. I don't get it. They're loss for not realizing how the other 3 shows were quality.

I'm in the very few minority where I had no gripes with the Cena vs Orton program. I Quit was excellent and I liked the Iron Man believe it or not. ORTON TRIED TO BLOW UP JOHN CENA. I was the biggest fan of that spot. It worked for me. Hell in a Cell was above average/solid & Summerslam was pretty bad.

Speaking of Cena, 2009, & Smackdown. Those 3 elements combine to make one awesome match. Just add Big Show. BEST. MATCH. EVER. (from those two) Now that's a feud I got bored with quickly. Cena vs Show in the early part of the year for the World Championship match at WrestleMania was fine. It bred a phenomenal match on Smackdown and a solid one on RAW. Needing it to go past that was meh personified. Judgment Day was terrible and I don't think Extreme Rules was much better. Besides, it led to nothing for Big Show. He beat Cena to end the program, but that was on RAW and Miz distracted John-boy. Oh, and that match was CRAP too. 10 minutes of boring. Pass.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> WHAT WAS THE STORY BEHIND THE BREAKING POINT SCREWJOB? Really, I don't think an answer was given :lmao
> 
> Despite that wacky stuff, I'm glad to see Smackdown in 2009 getting pimped. It's the fuckin TOPS. I've proclaimed my love to the majority of 2009 plenty of times on this site. It's too underrated. Just b/c RAW had midget court and crappy guest hosts doesn't mean the year was a total bust. Rise of DOLPH, imo.
> 
> DREW MCINTYRE. Remember he had to "feud" with Ron Killings when he debuted? Why does WWE stick that loser with amazing talent? First Drew and now recently Cesaro. At least both squashed him. :mark:


Yeah. Smackdown matches in 2009 were quality stuff. Raw, ECW, and WWE Superstars as well. John Morrison vs Dolph Ziggler in a 2 out of 3 falls match for the I.C title on Smackdown, Christian vs Tommy Dreamer in an Extreme Rules match on ECW, Cody Rhodes vs Shane McMahon on WWE Superstars, CM Punk vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy for the World Heavyweight title on Raw, and CM Punk vs John Cena on Raw were awesome stuff that gets overlooked. Oh, and the triple threat tag team match between Cena/Taker, Triple H/Shawn Michaels, and The Big Show/Chris Jericho on Raw in the MSG arena. Probably one of my favorite Raw main event matches of all time. 

Speaking of overlooked matches, that Owen Hart vs Savio Vega match at Summerslam 96 is great. It looked average on paper but it turned out to be pretty fucking awesome. Savio Vega was a very underrated worker who could have been a good mid-card player if it weren't for the backstage politics.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I'd like Choke2Death to do a non-biased as possible, best matches of CM Punk review.


You wanna torture me? lol. But really, I went back and rewatched his OTL match with Bryan the other week and it dropped for me heavily. From ****1/4 to ***1/4. I just don't like his wrestling style. He's sloppy and looks so uncoordinated. I've grown to like better 'organized' wrestling styles in recent times so Punk's all-over-the-place wrestling is not really my thing. Specially since he doesn't have one ounce of the athleticism of a cruiserweight to make it worth.

I'll still praise the Cena match from MITB, though. That one was epic, I need to go back and rewatch SummerSlam, though. And I still hate the no-DQ with Bryan. The Jeff Hardy series are in my plans to watch in the near future when I reach 2009. I'll never even touch his overrated work from this year, however. Except the Jericho matches which I might give another chance.



Best In The North Pole said:


> Wrestlemania XXVIII is so fucking overrated IMO that it blows my fucking mind. It has two AWESOME matches, but for a four hour show to have one hour of quality just blows my fucking mind. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a _GOOD_ show, but I'll be damned if it's not middle of the pack as far as MANIAS are concerned.


It's a pretty good show but I understand what you mean. Two great matches in Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena (YES, you better believe dat, playa!) and a couple of decent matches with Orton/Kane and Punk/Jericho. The rest was forgettable or just fpalm worthy (Show killing Mustache's momentum and 18 seconds).



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> It beat out WrestleMania 27. That's the positive. Or how I choose to look at it.





haribo said:


> I'm enjoying the hate on WM 27 on the previous page. Fuck that show.


WM27 was fucking terrible. Three decent matches (not WM caliber) from the undercard and one above average (Taker/HHH). The other half was fucking terrible, though. Tag match was over before I could get up from my chair to take a piss. Same for the mixed tag match (lol'd @ Snooki getting booed) and Cena/Miz was just... dead. And who can forget Lawler/Cole? I was struggling with my streams for 5 minutes and when I found one that worked (really wanted to see Cole get fucked up) it was like I hadn't missed anything. And as if it wasn't bad enough, they reversed the ending for some stupid reason and dragged it out for 2 more PPVs.



sharkboy22 said:


> Cena/Orton brought us some pretty average matches, although I have the I-Quit at ****1/2. I rank that match in the same line with Funk/Flair (which I have at *****) So yeah apart from one match, the matches just weren't anything special. I haven't seen the iron man match, not that I care to anyway.


The Ironman match is pretty good (****). HIAC is ***1/4 to me. I have to rewatch I Quit and SummerSlam was way too overbooked. They also had a Raw match after all of them which I will watch to finish my series.

Glad I've made some good progress with their series. Only got 1 Raw match from 2008 (the week before Judgment Day) before I move on to their 2009 work which will take a while since the matches are a lot longer than anything I've reviewed so far (except SummerSlam 07).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ECW is on god like levels for me in 2009 thanks to Christian + the roster being pretty damn amazing at every turn.

Yep, like I said Cena was the king of RAW in '09. JeriShow collectively was right behind him. Jericho had a great year all around. On PPV or TV he was killing it. Worked his ass off to make not one, but two forgotten championships relevant again.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cody Rhodes vs Shane McMahon :shocked:

I never knew that happened. That has to be early '09, right? Cause that's when Shane did his thing with Orton and was competing.

Speaking of which Shane vs Orton NWO '09. Loved it, for what it was. It was the last blade job of the PG era before Cena/Lesnar happened. 

Does anyone remember Regal/Triple H First Blood on RAW in '08? It must have been a RAW Roulette or something. That was a bloody mess. I can't seem to find the match anywhere though. It's weird how at first PG started off just a lesser tamed version of TV14 and then slowly but surely it evolved into well, TV G.

I think that was another problem with RAW in 2009, they took the PG thing way too seriously. The strange thing is SD was getting away with a lot while RAW was like under watch or something. RAW and SD felt like two separate companies. SD had a more edgier feel to it than RAW in '09.

I think by 2010 though WWE realized PG didn't mean G and they started to do more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rhodes vs Shane happened on the debut edition of WWE Superstars. It was in April.

Orton vs Shane from NWO is solid at best. I'm not crazy about it now. I don't think it was a blade job either. Shane smacked him with the monitor and Orton was legit cut immediately from the corner.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> ECW is on god like levels for me in 2009 thanks to Christian + the roster being pretty damn amazing at every turn.
> 
> Yep, like I said Cena was the king of RAW in '09. JeriShow collectively was right behind him. Jericho had a great year all around. On PPV or TV he was killing it. Worked his ass off to make not one, but two forgotten championships relevant again.


I used to watch ECW just for Zack Ryder lol. I remember when he first debut the character on Superstars, from the moment his music hit I instantly became a fan. Then I remember when ECW got cancelled and I was like "Damn, what's gonna become of Ryder? He's going to get lost in the shuffle" And I was right. Ryder played a good bit of a deal in ECW in '09. He even had a match with Dreamer.

I believe if Ryder were drafted to SD he might have been a key player in the WWE. The funny thing is though, round this time last year he was a key player. I will never forget the night after TLC on RAW where he, Punk and D-Bryan main evented in a tag match. It was like witnessing the ushering of a new era. Sadly, they took the title off of him 3 weeks later to put in on Swagger just so that Santino could have a pointless 5 month reign.

To make matters worse I really dug the Eve/Zack Ryder storyline and I believe it should have been Kane/Ryder feuding rather than Kane/Cena. The thing with Eve was done just to get her over as a heel and it worked/. But I believe both Eve and Ryder could have benefited from the angle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Zack Ryder was the MAN on ECW. (still is/would be with a push) I too was hooked immoderately. Match retiring Dreamer was noteworthy, but his bouts vs Christian were the real high points. Even got an ECW Championship in September. Actually had a future till 2011 showed up.

Don't get me started on the fail of a push he received. It's so stupid. Lets make a midcard champion a star. No. Nevermind. Lets bury him instead. Awful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I loved the Kane/Ryder/Eve/Cena storyline. It was some "so bad it's good" quality stuff. I was in tears on the go home show to Elimination Chamber. It was way too goofy from the sudden kiss with Ryder in a wheelchair right there watching to Kane returning with the ambulance to the end segment with Cena embarrassed and the ending when Kane pushes Ryder off the stage. And who can forget the heat Eve got? Got over as a heel in an instant after that "friend zone" segment, lol. :lol

Oh, and the camera focus being on Kane while the script writer was standing there telling him what to do and Eve calmly entering the ambulance pretending to be scared.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't get me fucking started on Zack Ryder.

After TLC last year ; PUNK, BRYAN, and RYDER were on top of the fucking world and it seemed like CHANGE was finally occuring.

ATER TLC THIS YEAR ; Ryder is on the level of Santino, Bryan is being treated like a midcarder who gets main event pops, and Punk... Is still on top :lol ... But their treatment of Ryder and Bryan is SO embarrassing, considering that they got bigger natural pops over the last year than Ryback has gotten by WWE forcing his talentless fucking ass down our throats.

....I try so hard to stay civil when talking about the likes of Ryback, Ryder, Bryan, Etc .... But FUCK it is so hard not to basically EXPLODE when talking about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What about the RAW where it ended with Kane sneaking up on Eve in a towel with a gleam of RAPE in his eye? 

High quality television right there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ryder is terrible and deserves to be in the position he's in right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> Ryder is terrible and deserves to be in the position he's in right now.


Agreed completely. He was so annoying when they started pushing him. The only time I enjoyed him was when Kane squashed him around.

EDIT: Randomly have to drop this before I forget about it completely. Awesome match!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xejozw_chris-benoit-vs-jbl_sport#.UNdAerUnguc


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You can say all about his in-ring skills that you want (they aren't great, trust me), but I just really respect the guys who can naturally get over and entertain despite going against the grain in WWE's corporate hierarchy. 

He was a crafty motherfucker who used the internet to get SUPER fucking over , but didn't get what he deserved in the end... Funny because HE STILL MAKES THEM BOATLOADS OF MONEY IN MERCHANDISING....

Wait a second.... Merchandising ? .... Crowd Reactions ? .... Disregarding In-ring skill ? .... OH GOD.... I'VE BECOME ONE OF THE POSTERS FROM THE GOAT THREAD..

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol, you wanna go "GOAT thread" style then you should also remember the ratings. When Ryder was the main event in that wheel changing segment with Eve, it LOST viewers before Punk became the king of low overruns. :lol

So WWE is justified in depushing him, although they should have also done the same to Punk.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I have absolutely no problem with Bryan's position in the company. He is OVER. At the end of the day that's what matters in pro wrestling. You could be the fucking best wrestler in the world but what sense does it make if you're going out there eveyr night wrestling 60 minute matches and no one gives a fuck?

To me Bryan is more over now than ever before and it's because he has personality now. And he's one of the very few true tweeners in pro wrestling. He's in a good position and you can tell he enjoys coming to work. 

There's this notion that if you're not being serious and you're not wrestling seriously, no one will take you seriously. That's bullshit. Look at Lance Storm. Austin buried his ass and boy he deserved it. Get the fuck outta here with your half boston crabs you one dimensional, cardboard box of a personality dull piece of uninspiring, non-entertaining cunt. 

You look at someone like Dusty Rhodes who was just an aggressive son of a bitch on the mic and even more aggressive in the ring. Yet here he is in WWE dancing like a fat-bellied pig in polka dotted tighties. There are some guys who have to much pride and ego to do that but Dusty said "fuck it! This is gonna get over!" 

I'll be honest. I haven't seen much of it, but Bryan Danielson was a great technician. But he was lacking big time in the character department. He comes to WWE and they basically have him float around a bit the midcard. For whatever reason it is, WWE was persistent in pushing D-Bryan. I'm not so sure if they were trying to bury him at first but whatever happened, happened and after Mania he was one of the most over guys in the company. I didn't even know D-Bryan had that much charisma. I'd say when he turned heel after TLC last year, he started to blow me away in terms of his ability on the mic but after Mania is when his popularity just really skyrocketed.

Daniel Bryan being a goof with his "Yes" is what got him over. Not his ability to apply a Labell lock. I think people lose sight of the fact that wrestling is fun. They become marks for themselves and get way too caught up in the wrestling aspect of things that they neglect character and all the other good stuff that make wrestling fun. The whole "I'm the master of 1000 holds" thing has been played to the death and it has never gotten over. You don't need to force it down fans' throats that you're a great wrestler for them to believe it. You just go out there and wrestle and they know it. But if you on the surface you're nothing boring ass cunt (Lance Storm and Dean Malenko, fuck yeah I said) no one will give a shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's probably because ALL of Punk's/Ryder's fans are internet dwellers like myself who haven't watched a Raw broadcast on television in about five years , and opt to stream Raw and support their favorite guys in another way ; Merchandising. 

I swear to god I've bought so much Punk merch that he's probably been kept champion because of it, seriously. Yet I haven't contributed a single watch to any of the shows he's been champion on because like probably HALF of his fans, I would just rather watch from my laptop 

SO it seems as if Punk's fans decrease ratings but at the same time increase revenue, hence the reason why he's been champion for so long... Vince fucking LOVES money, and if they were losing any BECAUSE of Punk he would have been gone as champion a very long time ago.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*WWE TLC 2012*
TLC MATCH: Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield

_Yeah, this was good, but I wouldn't call it a MOTYC, not even close. I loved the storytelling, and how they explained the Shield's tactics very well - they constantly managed to isolate someone, in order to dominate. The match really put them over as a threat. Mission accomplished. Ambrose and Roman were excellent here. Sheeeeeit, Daniel Bryan is INSANELY over, I'm so happy for him. Kane's a badass, of course, such an underappreciated guy in terms of in-ring work. And Ryback might be the worst thing I've seen in WWE main event picture since Khali. That guy sucked the energy out of the building every time he did something. He's so fake, overproduced, robotic, boring, dull, uninspiring, etc. Lol at the "Goldberg" chants, haha. Anyway, this was good, I really appreciated chaos and mayhem. Didn't like how Ryback and Kane oversold their big bumps, though. The Rollins bump was dangerous, no need to do that._
*Rating: ***3/4*


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I rewatched that match yesterday. Personally, I thought Ryback played his part well in the match. He stayed down when he needed to, and did his power moves when he needed to. The crowd wasn't as hot for him as they were for Daniel Bryan, but he still got some reaction. Awesome match overall. Crowd was into it. I found all three members of the Shield were great in that match. Kane was great, and that chokeslam on the chair to Ambrose looked brutal. Bryan was super over. It had nice storytelling. Didn't find one dull moment in that match. One of my top 5 matches this year honestly. 

Rating: ****

By the way, if anyone cares, Meltzer gave that match a ****1/2


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Can someone recommend me some ECW and SD! 2009, I really want to dive in to it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MORRISON-REY   

CHRISTIAN-SWAGGER


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Tanner1495 said:


> Can someone recommend me some ECW and SD! 2009, I really want to dive in to it.


Favorite ECW Match 2009: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, ECW 2/24/2009
Favorite Smackdown Match 2009: Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison, Smackdown 9/4/2009 

There's plenty more where those came from but you can jump on those two.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Punter said:


> By the way, if anyone cares, Meltzer gave that match a ****1/2


Wow. But it really was that good. Meltzer liked this PPV alot in general. Five good matches on the card, with two being **** and better. 

Are we talking "PPV of the year"? It's def in the Top 3 with Extreme Rules and Money in the Bank.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Money in the Bank was fucking garbage. It's Extreme Rules and Wrestlemania 28 at two of the three spots for me. Missed everything post-MITB so I can't pick a third since the other PPVs that I saw in full sucked excluding ER and WM. OTL had a great four way, though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Extreme Rules and WrestleMania would be my top two PPVs of the Year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC only having the one match worth seeing doesn't make it come even close to PPV of the year for me.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

TLC definitely top 3 this year.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Money in the Bank was fucking garbage. It's Extreme Rules and Wrestlemania 28 at two of the three spots for me. Missed everything post-MITB so I can't pick a third since the other PPVs that I saw in full sucked excluding ER and WM. OTL had a great four way, though.


Money in the Bank was a good I thought. Smackdown MITB was great as was Punk/Bryan. Sheamus/Del Rio.RAW MITB were both good matches too. Obviously nothing compared to the previous years event. But still a good PPV offering.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Personally, I thought TLC was better than Wrestlemania (as I thought it was a complete let down, I can't stand these roofless arenas neither).

Extreme Rules though for me was great. We got a decent opener with Orton and Kane. Really good match between Sheamus/Bryan (should of been at Wrestlemania). We got a superb Chicago Street Fight between Punk/Jericho (better than the Mania match) and we got Brock Lesnar rip John Cena apart for 15 minutes (shit end however). 

For all the shite Raws the WWE have put out this year, they have churned out awesome PPVs and I can't see that stopping in 2013 with some of the new talent introduced and perhaps more Rock and Lesnar.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> You'd be surprised how often 2009 gets slapped with "RAW was terrible. That year sucked." As if RAW was the only program that was airing. I don't get it. They're loss for not realizing how the other 3 shows were quality.


According to this forum only Raw exists. Even when you look at some of the threads in the Raw section, they're actually talking about SD or just WWE in general. Yet probably more than half the good stuff each year comes from other shows.

My top 3 PPVs of the year would be Extreme Rules, WM and TLC. But I also really enjoyed No Way Out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Need to watch TLC , but Extreme Rules is the undisputed PPVOTY IMO. Wrestlemania comes in at a distant second, and third is a toss up between like 4 or 5 shows. I really liked No Way Out a while ago when I saw it, but it's one of the only PPVS of 2012 that I don't own on DVD.

Who's the guy in here that really loves that show ? I'm thinking it's *Brye* because of the Kidd/Gabriel appearance and Rhodes-Christian. FUCK... Coupled with Punk-Kane-Bryan and Sheamus-Ziggler, if that show didn't have such a shitty main event it would be the #2 of the year for me easily 

EDIT: I FUCKING KNEW IT :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have to watch that Swagger/Christian match after I'm done with this Raw episode I'm on now. Hear about it a lot.



SmokeAndMirrors said:


> Money in the Bank was a good I thought. Smackdown MITB was great as was Punk/Bryan. Sheamus/Del Rio.RAW MITB were both good matches too. Obviously nothing compared to the previous years event. But still a good PPV offering.


I disagree. The MITB matches were decent but nothing special. Del Rio/Sheamus was boring and Punk/Bryan was _terrible_.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM for me had: Jericho/Punk and Undertaker/HHH which are my #3 and #2 MOTY respectively, so I'd place it way, WAY above the extremely average TLC PPV (outside of the TLC match).


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Need to watch TLC , but Extreme Rules is the undisputed PPVOTY IMO. Wrestlemania comes in at a distant second, and third is a toss up between like 4 or 5 shows. I really liked No Way Out a while ago when I saw it, but it's one of the only PPVS of 2012 that I don't own on DVD.
> 
> Who's the guy in here that really loves that show ? I'm thinking it's *Brye* because of the Kidd/Gabriel appearance and Rhodes-Christian. FUCK... Coupled with Punk-Kane-Bryan and Sheamus-Ziggler, if that show didn't have such a shitty main event it would be the #2 of the year for me easily
> 
> EDIT: I FUCKING KNEW IT :lol


I remember seeing a lot of people hating on NWO just after it happened. Which I didn't understand. Because there were great matches on that PPV. And even Show/Cena wasn't disastrous. Oh and Johnny's suit at that show :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Need to watch TLC , but Extreme Rules is the undisputed PPVOTY IMO. Wrestlemania comes in at a distant second, and third is a toss up between like 4 or 5 shows. I really liked No Way Out a while ago when I saw it, but it's one of the only PPVS of 2012 that I don't own on DVD.
> 
> Who's the guy in here that really loves that show ? I'm thinking it's *Brye* because of the Kidd/Gabriel appearance and Rhodes-Christian. FUCK... Coupled with Punk-Kane-Bryan and Sheamus-Ziggler, if that show didn't have such a shitty main event it would be the #2 of the year for me easily
> 
> EDIT: I FUCKING KNEW IT :lol


:lmao:lmao:lmao

Them letting Kidd do all this cool stuff on PPV and then never letting him do anything on TV is a tad disappointing. But I love the Rhodes/Christian match from NWO. The ending sequence alone just owns. Both title matches I have around ***3/4 to **** and I really like the 4 team tag match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

FuckChristmas said:


> WM for me had: Jericho/Punk and Undertaker/HHH which are my #3 and #2 MOTY respectively, so I'd place it way, WAY above the extremely average TLC PPV (outside of the TLC match).


Plus, Mania had the better than expected Rock/Cena Kane/Orton match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I don't get about WWE .... Why not let their young guys like Kidd shine out there in a match against Punk or Sheamus or one of the bigger names out there ? He doesn't have to fucking win the title or anything, just make more matches title matches to keep it interesting. 

Punk-Kidd on Raw with 10-12 minutes ? Don't you think _THAT_ would be good ? 

NO. We need 40 recaps and as much Del Rio as possible.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> That's what I don't get about WWE .... Why not let their young guys like Kidd shine out there in a match against Punk or Sheamus or one of the bigger names out there ? He doesn't have to fucking win the title or anything, just make more matches title matches to keep it interesting.
> 
> Punk-Kidd on Raw with 10-12 minutes ? Don't you think _THAT_ would be good ?
> 
> NO. We need 40 recaps and as much Del Rio as possible.


Fuck, I would kill for that. It gives someone like Kidd a huge rub. Similar to Trips/Benjamin from '04 or something.

Would also like to mention that I'm pretty sure Kidd has defeated Tensai more times than Cena.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> That's what I don't get about WWE .... Why not let their young guys like Kidd shine out there in a match against Punk or Sheamus or one of the bigger names out there ? He doesn't have to fucking win the title or anything, just make more matches title matches to keep it interesting.
> 
> Punk-Kidd on Raw with 10-12 minutes ? Don't you think _THAT_ would be good ?
> 
> NO. We need 40 recaps and as much Del Rio as possible.


Completely agree.

Much better than getting rubbish tag matches we seem to get between four main eventers. I mean we've got Punk/Ziggler before on Raw and Ziggler/Cena and Punk/Cena etc. They are PPV matches. Give Punk someone like Tyson Kidd to work with for once so he can get on TV and we can see different things.

You'd never get Austin/HHH or Austin/Rock on Raw. Because they were matches that were to get built and blow off on PPVs because they were great. Nowadays everything is OVER DONE!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clark Griswold said:


> Fuck, I would kill for that. It gives someone like Kidd a huge rub. Similar to Trips/Benjamin from '04 or something.
> 
> Would also like to mention that I'm pretty sure Kidd has defeated Tensai more times than Cena.


How many times? Fruit has beat Tensai once and A-Train at least twice IIRC.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> *You wanna torture me? lol.* But really, I went back and rewatched his OTL match with Bryan the other week and it dropped for me heavily. From ****1/4 to ***1/4. I just don't like his wrestling style. He's sloppy and looks so uncoordinated. I've grown to like better 'organized' wrestling styles in recent times so Punk's all-over-the-place wrestling is not really my thing. Specially since he doesn't have one ounce of the athleticism of a cruiserweight to make it worth.
> 
> I'll still praise the Cena match from MITB, though. That one was epic, I need to go back and rewatch SummerSlam, though. And I still hate the no-DQ with Bryan. The Jeff Hardy series are in my plans to watch in the near future when I reach 2009. I'll never even touch his overrated work from this year, however. Except the Jericho matches which I might give another chance.


:lmao

And that's fair enough. I will say that I think some people overrate Punk in the ring. While I really enjoyed his match with Punk at OTL, I didn't really care much for his match with Bryan at MITB (probably because of AJ) and his matches with Jericho weren't as good as people made them out to be. Some times he can really bring it in the ring, other times not so much. He's similar to Cena in that aspect imo. 

Punk/Cena from MITB was epic though, that I agree on. 



Choke2Death said:


> I loved the Kane/Ryder/Eve/Cena storyline. It was some "so bad it's good" quality stuff. I was in tears on the go home show to Elimination Chamber. It was way too goofy from the sudden kiss with Ryder in a wheelchair right there watching to Kane returning with the ambulance to the end segment with Cena embarrassed and the ending when Kane pushes Ryder off the stage. And who can forget the heat Eve got? Got over as a heel in an instant after that "friend zone" segment, lol. :lol
> 
> Oh, and the camera focus being on Kane while the script writer was standing there telling him what to do and Eve calmly entering the ambulance pretending to be scared.


Oh god, I HATED that storyline. I remember ranting about it so much when it was going on at the time. The cheesy embrace the hate storyline between Cena and Kane was enough, but when they added Ryder and Eve in the mix, things wen't downhill fast. I remember criticizing Ryder and Eve's acting skills a lot when it was going on, they were awful. Some of the blame can be placed on the fact that neither had been in any big storyline so they weren't used to the about of attention and focus they were getting, but still, I feel some of the blame was their faults. I feel in some segments they didn't even try, or they were just acting terribly on purpose, it was cringeworthy TV for me. With the only highlights being Kane throwing Ryder off the stage when he was in the wheelchair and Cena's embrace the hate face to the camera, lol. Cena beating Kane at Elimination Chamber was a poor decision. It hurt Kane's comeback as a monster and killed any hype of the storyline going anywhere. 



FuckChristmas said:


> Ryder is terrible and deserves to be in the position he's in right now.


Agreed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> How many times? Fruit has beat Tensai once and A-Train at least twice IIRC.


I believe Kidd has 4 times now. Twice on Raw and twice on Superstars. I didn't factor in the A-Train matches for Cena.

One of the Superstars ones might be Gabriel though, not 100% sure.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lord Meltzer's highest rated matches of 2012

Undertaker V HHH WM 28 ****3/4
Cena V Lesnar ER ****1/2
Punk V Bryan OTL ****1/2
TLC ****1/2
Cena V Punk NOC ****1/4
Punk V Bryan MITB ****1/4
Byan V Sheamus ER ****1/4


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

4 out of 7 involve Bryan!


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Pretty dumb that there are no Jericho matches on the Best PPV matches of 2012 set.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't really care about Meltzer that much... No hate or love for the guy, I'm just MEH over him to be honest....

The fact that he loves Davey Richards so much makes me not put alot of stock into his ratings, however. I'd listen to a good 10-15 guys from this thread alone before I would listen to Meltzer's opinion :lol


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Meltzer is bang on almost all the time.

Personally i'd swap the top two around. Agree with the rest tho.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DEM DAVE MELTZER SNOWFLAKES


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

People who disagree with Meltzer's star ratings just don't understand the business.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

SNOWFLAKES R SRS BIZNUS


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

What was your guys's TV MOTY for 2011? Personally, I think Cena/Punk on the August 22nd edition from RAW takes the cake. It was in Edmonton, and the same crowd that threw back Cena's shirt, TWICE :lmao Really proud to have been a part of that crowd.

Think the only reason that people don't give it more attention is because at that point, Cena/Punk was really played out no matter how great of matches they were having. This was fresh off their SummerSlam 2011 match as well, so I believe that this match went out under appreciated at the time. Here it is for people who haven't seen it: 






Cena and Punk are magic. Those two have some of the best chemistry I've ever seen. Cena's usually sucks when it comes to putting over his opponent like a legit threat, but Punk always brings the best out of him both in terms of mic work and match quality. **** match IMO. Awesome awesome match that flowed nicely and the crowd was HOT for. The atmosphere was insane. Don't know how it came across on TV, but that building was shaking when I was there live while Cena/Punk was going on. 

Come to think of it that who show was awesome start to finish. Awesome Truth formed their tag team, Bourne/Kingston won the Tag Title from Otunga and Perfect Jr., and Del Rio/Morrison was a great match as well. Awesome show, and one of the best I've ever attended. Way better then that Bragging Rights 2010 go home show, which completely sucked balls that I attended. They need to come back to Edmonton dammit :cuss:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punter said:


> What was your guys's TV MOTY for 2011? Personally, I think Cena/Punk on the August 22nd edition from RAW takes the cake. It was in Edmonton, and the same crowd that threw back Cena's shirt, TWICE :lmao Really proud to have been a part of that crowd.
> 
> Think the only reason that people don't give it more attention is because at that point, Cena/Punk was really played out no matter how great of matches they were having. This was fresh off their SummerSlam 2011 match as well, so I believe that this match went out under appreciated at the time. Here it is for people who haven't seen it:
> 
> ...


Hit the nail RIGHT on the head with this one. One of the best RAW matches there has been in YEARS


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TV MOTY 2011? Probably Cena/Mysterio. Don't remember that Cena/Punk match at all.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I didn't know that Cena/Punk match was on Youtube. I have been looking for it everywhere. EPIC!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

My favorite TV matches from 2011 are John Cena vs CM Punk on Raw, Christian vs Alberto Del Rio in a steel cage match on Smackdown, CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio for the WWE championship on Raw, John Cena vs Rey Mysterio for the WWE championship on Raw, and Zack Ryder, Daniel Bryan, and Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler for the United States title on Raw, The Miz, and Alberto Del Rio on Raw.

Last but not least, Randy Orton vs Christian for the World Heavyweight title on Smackdown. It wasn't better than their Over the Limit match but this match was amazing. This match is right up there with Cena vs Punk as the best TV match of 2011.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Put in the first ever Wrestlemania that I ordered, and my personal favourite Wrestlemania.

Updated SNOWFLAKEZ for...

*Wrestlemania 19*
Hardy/Rey - ** 3/4
Taker/ShowTrain - ** 1/2
Trish/Victoria/Jazz - ** 3/4
WGTT/Guerreros/BenoitRhyno - ** 3/4 - ***
HBK/Jericho - ****
HHH/Booker - *** 3/4
Hogan/McMahon - *** 1/2 - FUCKING AWESOME!
Rock/Austin - **** 1/2 - So much better on this rewatch, for some reason
Bork/Angle - ****

Awesome PPV, tbh. Undercard was a little bit weak but was still entertaining enough. Vince and Hogan have arguably their best match in both of theire careers despite both being over 50. One all-time classic in Rock/Austin III and three must watch, awesome other matches with Jericho/HBK, HHH/Booker and Lesnar/Angle. Un-bloody-real.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry-Bryan is :mark: and one of the best cage matches ever... I'm dead serious when I say that. Pretty sure I had it third on my overall rankings due to Cage matches not having that many classics whatsoever. 

Punk-Cena beats it out BARELY.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I forgot about that awesome Christian/Orton Steel Cage match from the live SmackDown from 2011 for the WHC. That match was great, although I'd still give it to Punk/Cena on RAW because of DAT CROWD.

GODDAMMIT I forgot about Henry/Bryan too? That was an AWESOME match inside that steel cage. The more I think about it, the more awesome matches come to mind in 2011 in terms of TV.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Lord Meltzer's highest rated matches of 2012
> 
> 
> 
> Punk V Bryan MITB ****1/4


:gun:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Henry-Bryan is :mark: and one of the best cage matches ever... I'm dead serious when I say that. Pretty sure I had it third on my overall rankings due to Cage matches not having that many classics whatsoever.
> 
> Punk-Cena beats it out BARELY.


I forgot about that match. It was a really good cage match with some good story-telling in it. Both Henry and Daniel Bryan were awesome that year.

And dammit, I forgot to mention Dolph Ziggler vs CM Punk on Raw as my top TV matches of 2011. The back-and-fourth action in that match had me on the edge of my seat. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TV MOTY 2011 for me is probably the Henry/Danielson cage match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed. Punk-Ziggler on RAW > Punk-Ziggler @ the Rumble.

Might even throw four stars at that Punk-Ziggler RAW match. Fucking awesome contest that showed us all what Ziggler and Punk could do together.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

2011 had some great matches. I'm going with Orton/Rhodes Street Fight from SD though.

And for this year I'm going Punk/Henry from 4/2. That match fucking rocks.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Cena/Ziggler on one of the opening Raws/Smackdowns of 2011 was brilliant! Much better than any of the recent stuff they have pulled off. Actually thinking about it, they might of been late 2010.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton/Rhodes is a good shout too. Still sticking with Cena/Mysterio though. That thing was special. I only wish that we get a PPV match from them before Rey retires. Could be magic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Same here. Punk/Henry destroys every other TV match this year honestly. I don't even have a clue what #2 would even be... PUNK-HENRY AGAIN ? :lol

WTF was TV MOTY in 2010 ? Ziggler-Bryan ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best 2011 TV matches: (no specific order)
Christian/Orton (after Extreme Rules)
Christian/Orton (Steel Cage)
Orton/Ziggler (Raw in October or September I think)
Henry/Bryan (Steel Cage)
Cena/Punk (after SummerSlam plus "Chris Benoit" chants in his hometown :mark
Orton/Rhodes (Street Fight)
Orton/Punk (it was in London and definitely forgotten about)
Mysterio/Cena (probably the best match)
Christian/Del Rio (Steel Cage)

I have probably forgotten some. Admittedly there were a lot of good TV matches.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Is the Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes street fight match on Smackdown the one where Cody Rhodes got busted wide open? If so, yeah that was fantastic. I enjoyed Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes feud on Smackdown and Cody Rhodes putting a bag over Orton's head.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Best 2011 TV matches: (no specific order)
> Christian/Orton (after Extreme Rules)
> Christian/Orton (Steel Cage)
> Orton/Ziggler (Raw in October or September I think)
> ...


Is the Orton/Ziggler the one where Ziggler pops off the ground into the RKO? If so, I loved that spot but I don't remember much of the match.

And completely agree on that Orton/Punk match from UK. Really good stuff.



That's irrelevant said:


> Is the Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes street fight match on Smackdown the one where Cody Rhodes got busted wide open? If so, yeah that was fantastic. I enjoyed Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes feud on Smackdown and Cody Rhodes putting a bag over Orton's head.


Nah, that was the build up to it where Rhodes bled a ton. This match ended with Orton breaking the mask and leaving with it. Whole thing was awesome though. Really fun feud, imo, just wish Rhodes got a few more wins in it.

And for 2010, I'd certainly going either Bryan/Zig or Punk/Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why is it that I couldn't for the life of me tell you the TV MOTY from 2011, but I could probably put together top 5-10 lists for the likes of 00, 01, 02, 03, 04 etc? :lmao

Need to see Bryan/Henry cage match again. On paper it sounds like the greatest thing ever, but on the other hand... I don't remember it . LINK ME, YEAH.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

2011 TV MOTY is the Bryan/Henry cage match. Such an awesome match, with the best monster heel the WWE has had in years in Henry and an amazing babyface performance from Bryan. **** for that match, just awesome.

2012 TV MOTY is easily Punk/Henry 4/2/12 it's more henry monster heel epicness and a brilliant punk performance with an amazing crowd. **** match easily


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

FuckChristmas said:


> Why is it that I couldn't for the life of me tell you the TV MOTY from 2011, but I could probably put together top 5-10 lists for the likes of 00, 01, 02, 03, 04 etc? :lmao
> 
> Need to see Bryan/Henry cage match again. On paper it sounds like the greatest thing ever, but on the other hand... I don't remember it . LINK ME, YEAH.







Henry was BRILLIANT that year. One of the best run in the last 5 or so years honestly. He was drawing big on SmackDown, getting big reactions every week, his promo's were FANTASTIC, and matches were pretty great too. Perfect run. It just sucks that he was wasted for SO long.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't remember a thing about Punk/Henry other than the fact that the line for the drinks was pretty empty and I was back in my seat just in time to get a birds eye view of Jericho smashing him with that whiskey bottle lol.

TV MOTY 2010.....Morrison/Seamus ladder match is a good shout.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> I don't remember a thing about Punk/Henry other than the fact that the line for the drinks was pretty empty and I was back in my seat just in time to get a birds eye view of Jericho smashing him with that whiskey bottle lol.
> 
> TV MOTY 2010.....Morrison/Seamus ladder match is a good shout.


That wasn't on TV though. :argh:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clark Griswold said:


> That wasn't on TV though. :argh:


It wasn't? What am I getting confused with then? Morrison/Miz street fight maybe? I don't know lol. Ignore me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Morrison-Sheamus KOTR final you mean ?   

I think that was the match...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Morrison-Sheamus KOTR final you mean ?
> 
> I think that was the match...


I was there live for that one too actually, in Philly. I thought HHH was going to return to attack Seamus and declare himself the real KING OF KINGS . Don't remember it being TV MOTY calibre though. I actually can't think of anything for 2010 TV MOTY tbh. Nothing at all.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

SANTA GAME said:


> I don't remember a thing about Punk/Henry other than the fact that the line for the drinks was pretty empty and I was back in my seat just in time to get a birds eye view of Jericho smashing him with that whiskey bottle lol.
> 
> TV MOTY 2010.....Morrison/Seamus ladder match is a good shout.







Here you go Starbuck


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> I was there live for that one too actually, in Philly. I thought HHH was going to return to attack Seamus and declare himself the real KING OF KINGS . Don't remember it being TV MOTY calibre though. I actually can't think of anything for 2010 TV MOTY tbh. Nothing at all.


I can't think of much for Raw but SD had Punk/Mysterio early in the year, Punk/Taker when Taker came out of his coma and McIntyre/Christian.

For Raw I'd Ziggler/Bryan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker Vs Punk = 2010 TV MOTY, with Regal/Zeke Vs Christian/Kane on ECW being second :mark:.

Bob Holly; underrated? Watching HEAT from 2000, and the last 2 episodes he's had some really good matches with Benoit and Saturn. STIFF~!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Here you go Starbuck


Thanks. I might check it out if I bother myself to care lol. 



Clark Griswold said:


> I can't think of much for Raw but SD had Punk/Mysterio early in the year, Punk/Taker when Taker came out of his coma and McIntyre/Christian.
> 
> For Raw I'd Ziggler/Bryan.


I'm drawing a complete blank as far as 2010 goes. I don't remember any of those matches.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

2010 TV MOTY is probably Taker/Punk or some Mcintyre/Christian match from 2010 but I can't remember which one. Mcintyre/Christian had such an awesome series in 2010


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clark Griswold said:


> Is the Orton/Ziggler the one where Ziggler pops off the ground into the RKO? If so, I loved that spot but I don't remember much of the match.
> 
> And completely agree on that Orton/Punk match from UK. Really good stuff.


Yep, I think Orton also leapfrogs over Vickie at one point. Really fun match and made Ziggler look like a million bucks in defeat. I also remember Orton having a great Raw match with DiBiase Jr. where he made Ted look great despite losing.

Orton/Punk in UK was pretty good and actually main evented that show over the boring Miz/Cena feud. The crowd was also great with the dual chants for each guy. If there's one good thing about the Orton/Punk matches, it's the fact that Nexus never interfered in the matches. (and Orton winning all of them )



SANTA GAME said:


> It wasn't? What am I getting confused with then? Morrison/Miz street fight maybe? I don't know lol. Ignore me.


Now that you mention it, you just reminded me of that Falls Count Anywhere match between Miz and Morrison on the first Raw of 2011. AWESOME match and Morrison was on fire that night.



FuckChristmas said:


> Bob Holly; underrated? Watching HEAT from 2000, and the last 2 episodes he's had some really good matches with Benoit and Saturn. STIFF~!


I saw a very good Bob Holly match the other day against Randy Orton. It takes place sometime before or after SummerSlam 05. I'll try finding it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep, I think Orton also leapfrogs over Vickie at one point. Really fun match and made Ziggler look like a million bucks in defeat. I also remember Orton having a great Raw match with DiBiase Jr. where he made Ted look great despite losing.
> 
> Orton/Punk in UK was pretty good and actually main evented that show over the boring Miz/Cena feud. The crowd was also great with the dual chants for each guy. If there's one good thing about the Orton/Punk matches, it's the fact that Nexus never interfered in the matches. (and Orton winning all of them )
> 
> ...


I love the DiBiase matches. They had a good Smackdown one in '11 and a really good one on Raw in '09.

That FCA match is fun as hell. Legitimately thought Morrison was winning a couple times. Despite Miz having a questionable title reign, it gave us Miz/Lawler's TLC and Miz/Morrison FCA. But FUCK those Orton and Cena matches against Miz. The RR Miz/Orton matches feels like it's 5 hours long to me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Heel Orton vs. Face Miz could be fun.....could be lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I didn't mind Miz/Orton RR all that much. Thought the finish was completely out of nowhere but it was alright while it lasted. Haven't watched it since it happened, though. So I may need to refresh my memories.

And since we're talking good matches, I'll randomly drop this one here since I'm probably the only person that is aware of its existence. Awesome match and the botch towards the end is fucking hilarious. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SANTA GAME said:


> Heel Orton vs. Face Miz could be fun.....could be lol.


I actually think I might like that. I'm already liking face Miz way more and heel Orton usually delivered.

Edit: I vaguely remember that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry/Bryan cage match. Awesome. Under 10 minutes too (fuck knows how much they cut for the ad break). Just awesome stuff. Henry is a beast. Bryan bumps like a champ. Bryan's comebacks are awesome, and I love how he keeps going after the injured ankle. Final moments on top of the ropes with Bryan almost out of the cage is awesome. :mark:

Had an idea about MITB. Everyone but Cena so far has cashed in and won (Ziggler... we'll see lol). This year we finally saw someone (Cena) fail. How about for something different... a MITB briefcase holder actually wins the title in an ordinary match? I'm sure they can think of something creative to do with the champ still holding the briefcase, from being cocky because he's already champ and even if he loses he can cash in and win it back any time he wants, or they could do something with management wanting him to give up the briefcase as he no longer needs it, setting up a tournament of some kind, giving another guy the rub from the briefcase without having to wait another year for the MITB PPV.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd like to see a tweener type of character get a regular title shot while holding MITB only to lose through shenanigans or something. Then they just lose it after the match, cash in and turn fully heel in the process. DAT HEAT. They seriously need to freshen the entire MITB concept up or just scrap it entirely. It doesn't do what it's intended to do anymore and actually does the opposite if you ask me. I'm sick of all these half baked stars we get from MITB these days. I'd prefer them to scrap it and start building them up the old way again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clark Griswold said:


> Edit: I vaguely remember that match.


An early glimpse of Booker T on commentary and minus the catchphrases, he's still the same. "dat right there!"

And my favorite kind of botches are like the one in that match. When Benoit tries to rip Booker's shirt only for them to look stupid because he spends several seconds trying and failing to get it off while Michael Cole's in the background yelling "BOOKER'S GONNA PAY!".

(Just got done with the Raw where Bischoff gets fired as GM. I'm gonna miss him!)


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I wanted Bryan to win the Rumble this year and still have the briefcase. (At the time he won MITB and the months building he was still a face). I wanted him to go on and lose his title match at Mania but then snap and start hitting the champion with the chair and briefcase before cashing in and winning the title, turning heel in the process.

They could still even go down that route with Ziggler but I don't think they'll have him win the Rumble.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> I wanted Bryan to win the Rumble this year and still have the briefcase. (At the time he won MITB and the months building he was still a face). I wanted him to go on and lose his title match at Mania but then snap and start hitting the champion with the chair and briefcase before cashing in and winning the title, turning heel in the process.
> 
> They could still even go down that route with Ziggler but I don't think they'll have him win the Rumble.


The title shot would have expired back in July.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

As discussed on earlier pages, I agree, fuck Meltzer. Oh and to the guy who said that those who don't take Meltzer's ratings seriously don't understand the business, what the fuck does Meltzer know at this point? Meltzer has lost all concept of pro wrestling. The guy has forgotten what a good fucking match is. The guy has forgotten just what the fuck ring psychology. The fact that that idiot could even give Richards/Elgin 5 stars just shows how much he's really lost his fucking mind. At one point I could have considered Meltzer to be a good journalist but honestly the guy has forgotten everything about wrestling and favours these indy spottfests over actual wrestling.

Anywho, as for best PPVs of he year it's definitely

1) Extreme Rules
2) TLC




12) Wrestlemania 28


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Extreme Rules was my favourite from this year from WWE. But in all honesty, my favourite wrestling PPV of this year was Slammiversary.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Came up with a way to rank the WWE PPV's this year.

Points System:

Solid - 1
Good - 2
Great - 3
Epic - 5
MOTY - 2

--------------------------------------

*Royal Rumble - 3*

Bryan Vs Show Vs Henry - Solid
Punk Vs Ziggler - Good

*Elimination Chamber - 0*

:lmao I literally didn't like ANYTHING from this show. Last Chamber match I liked was probably back in 2010.

*WrestleMania - 11*

Kane Vs Orton - Solid
Undertaker Vs HHH - Epic
Punk Vs Jericho - Epic

*Extreme Rules - 11*

Sheamus Vs Bryan - Epic
Punk Vs Jericho - Good
Cena Vs Lesnar - Epic

*Over The Limit - 7*

Punk Vs Bryan - Epic & MOTY

*No Way Out - 6*

Sheamus Vs Ziggler - Great
Christian Vs Cody - Solid
Punk Vs Kane Vs Bryan - Good

*Money in the Bank - 2*

Punk Vs Bryan - Good

*SummerSlam - 6*

Jericho Vs Ziggler - Solid
Bryan Vs Kane - Solid
Punk Vs Show Vs Cena - Solid
Lesnar Vs HHH - Great

*Night of Champions - 7*

Orton Vs Ziggler - Good
Eve Vs Layla - Good
Punk Vs Cena - Great

*Hell in a Cell - 4*

Team Rhodes Scholars Vs Team Hell No - Solid
Show Vs Sheamus - Great

*Survior Series- 2*

Sheamus Vs Show - Good

*TLC - 3*

Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - Great

--------------------------------------

*Ranking The PPV's*

12. Elimination Chamber - 0
11. Money in the Bank - 2
10. Survior Series- 2 (preferred Show/Sheamus to Bryan/Punk from MITB)
09. Royal Rumble - 3
08. TLC - 3 (TLC match > Both RR matches combined)
07. Hell in a Cell - 4
06. No Way Out - 6
05. SummerSlam - 6 (SS had an extra match that I liked, plus HHH/Lesnar > Sheamus/Ziggler)
04. Night of Champions - 7
03. Over The Limit - 7 (Has my MOTY so beats out NOC on that alone)
02. WrestleMania - 11
01. Extreme Rules - 11 (2 Epics and a Great > 2 Epics and a solid)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cal, you don't like the SD '11 Chamber?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clark Griswold said:


> Cal, you don't like the SD '11 Chamber?!


Just looked it up. Thought it was from 2010 . Still wouldn't call it great though, just good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Fatal Four Way from Over the Limit is pretty solid IMO. And I prefer it to Punk/Bryan too.

*CM Punk vs JBL (SummerSlam 2008)*
_Disappointed at how boring it was. JBL is clearly past his prime and both men look like they are bored and going through the motions. JBL controls a large portion of the 11 or so minutes and there's far too much time spent on restholds for me to care. Plus the action is so basic with JBL going for a pin, then getting Punk up for a random suplex until the end when the match becomes more even. And Punk's offense is also pretty boring as it's mostly kicks with the exception of him using his typically awful Suicide Dive variation, a Crossbody and obviously the GTS. The finish is also rather anticlimactic and the bored commentary plus mostly dead crowd didn't help. *★★*_

Might give Punk's matches with Jeff Hardy a watch later, surely I'll enjoy them more than this.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> As discussed on earlier pages, I agree, fuck Meltzer. Oh and to the guy who said that those who don't take Meltzer's ratings seriously don't understand the business, what the fuck does Meltzer know at this point? Meltzer has lost all concept of pro wrestling. The guy has forgotten what a good fucking match is. The guy has forgotten just what the fuck ring psychology. The fact that that idiot could even give Richards/Elgin 5 stars just shows how much he's really lost his fucking mind. At one point I could have considered Meltzer to be a good journalist but honestly the guy has forgotten everything about wrestling and favours these indy spottfests over actual wrestling.


I don't concern myself with Meltzer's views or star ratings either but I wouldn't say he's an idiot or anything along those lines. At the end of the day he's just a wrestling fan voicing his opinions, like us. Different people are going to like different things in a match, simple as that.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So re-watched Lesnar/Cena. Match still holds up for me. ****1/2

And I got around to watching Punk/Bryan OTL and I don't know. This match doesn't do much for me. I'm just not a fan of it and I'm not high on it like most people. I thought the first half of the match was great but things started to breakdown by the second half. D-Bryan leg work was completely ignored by the second half of the match. 

He did try to incorporate it still in that when he pull the pads down as was hitting Punk knees to the gut he would hold his knee afterwards but it's like Punk just said "fuck it" and never considered it as part of the match anymore. The spot where the two are on the turnbucke and Punk knocks Bryan down, you can clearly see Bryan lying on the rope with his knee tangled trying to implement the story of the damaged knee in the match. However, it looks like CM Punk just told him to get up so that he could hit his fancy clothesline. To me that's what it looked like, anybody else? Like if you look closely you will see Bryan tangled in the ropes trying to sell the knee but then he just gets up like that completely forgetting about it.

The finishing stretch was just both men going at 90mph countering one another's offense and going for roll ups. I liked the finish. All in all it's not a bad match but I just don't see anything great about it or MOTY worthy. It's quite forgettable actually.

****3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

After reading Sharkboy's review of Punk/Bryan, I decided to immediately watch it to see if it still holds up at 5 stars. I'm also going to go back and watch all the other matches on my top 10 list to see if they still hold up.

For Punk/Bryan, it holds up easily. The match is just awesome from bell to bell. The pace is quick and the two show no signs of slowing down throughout the match. The start with Punk working on Bryan's legs and Bryan's selling is all excellent, and the same thing later with Bryan working on Punk's ribs and Punk's selling. They just kept throwing everything out of their arsenal at each other and then some. There are two things I especially love about this match. One is that I can't pinpoint a clear face/heel. While obviously they had their alignments on the build up, if you showed this to someone who's never watched wrestling ever before, I doubt they could tell you who the bad guy was and who the good guy was. It's something I love to see in matches rather than the standard good guy/bad guy formula for WWE. I said this recently, but Bryan looked absolutely amazing in this match, which he needed after looking like shit against Sheamus and being very weakly booked as WHC. The two men were evenly matched and that all the better. The second thing I really love about the match is that everything that was coming was just unpredictable. I forgot what to expect in the match outside of a few spots, and it's one of the things that kept the match interesting. The counters as well were all well-done and used in the right spots. The crowd was on fire, Punk retained the title in the best way possible while still keeping the feud going, and it just felt like a true wrestling contest... or as close as we'll get in WWE nowadays. Match is still 5 stars and easily MOTY imo unless another match ends up 5 stars (only match I could see doing that based on memory is the TLC match, and even that is unlikely imo).

But yeah, speaking of which, next match on my list is the 6-man TLC. Obviously this was just on a week ago so it's still fresh in my head, but let's see if it holds up on third watch. I said it was my favorite match of the year on the night of TLC, so let's see what happens.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Match holds up at ****3/4 for me easily. I've watched it a good 6 or 7 times this year and I like it the same each time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I gave my review on Bryan/Punk last week and as I said, the match was a lot worse on second watch compared to first time. 

*Edge vs Batista (Smackdown 29/6/2007)*
Fresh off their _Vengeance: Night of Champions_ match where Edge won by countout which resulted in Batista never being able to get another shot at the World Title, they get a rematch on Smackdown. So going into this, Batista just wants to destroy Edge. I really liked the pace of the match playing up his opportunistic heel character and Batista being the scary powerhouse. Starts off slowly then moves into Batista controlling a portion of the match with a bit of leg work. It was also fresh to see Edge attempt a lowblow only for Batista to block it with his strength. Halfway through, Edge starts to take control with a neckbreaker which leads to a bit of neck work which Batista sells just fine throughout the match. The ending then comes after Edge counters Batista's top rope move with a dropkick followed by Edge crawling to the corner for a spear attempt. Batista does some kind of Thesz Press-like move on Edge's head and gives him the Powerbomb for the clean victory. Very enjoyable TV match and I also found it funny when Cole keeps whining about Edge being a coward, Edge walked out of the ring past the announce table and said "Shut up Cole!". I have to say that this was a great effort by two men who could have definitely not felt very good coming to work a day after hearing a close friend of theirs being accused of murdering his family. _*★★★*_


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I rather watch Punk/Bryan from SD earlier this year. You know, the overbooked one with Teddy comeing out every minute. I found that match to be very exciting at the time and I could be wrong but didn't match go anywhere from about 30-40 minutes including commercials?

I wanna give HHH/Taker a second watch. My initial impression of the match was ***1/2. And this is the last time I will be saying why I give the match ***1/2. 

Triple H vs The Undertaker at Wrestlemania 28, much like their match at the previous year's Mania, felt a little too forced imo. They tried so hard to tell this compelling story with actual words and over the top antics. It just didn't have an organic feel to it whatsoever. Last year it was the other way around. They tried to tell this compelling story by breaking everything in sight 

And the one thing that stood out to me was that they barely used the cell. I can recall like 2 spots they did in the beginning and that was that. This was perhaps my biggest gripe with the match. It didn't feel like a HIAC match. The cell was treated as an afterthought. As a matter of fact this match could have been worked without the cell. Had they not, for absolutely no warranted reason, book the match last year to be a NO-DQ they could have made this year's stipulation NO-DQ and they could have achieved the same result. The Cell, if anything, became more of a backdrop. Like a set just standing there not serving much purpose other than providing scenery.

I'm not saying I was expecting both men to slam each other 50 times into the cell and jump off the damn cell but to me this match had that Orton/Cena feel to it. Or Orton/Sheamus where it felt more like a steel steps match rather than a Hell In The Cell. The only difference between this match and a Cena/Orton is the "You End It!" to cover up for the lack of use of the cell. 

So that right there is my biggest issue with the match. I'm sure had this match been a regular NO-DQ match I may have gone higher on this match but this is HIAC. And it didn't feel like one. 

Overall, I'm not a fan of both their recent encounters at Mania.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The fact that Taker/Triple H were able to get the kind of reaction they got from the crowd during the match without using the cell and without gratuitous violence is very impressive. That is the art of pro wrestling. That's it right there in that match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> The fact that Taker/Triple H were able to get the kind of reaction they got from the crowd during the match without using the cell and without gratuitous violence is very impressive. That is the art of pro wrestling. That's it right there in that match.


I agree with you and I give them the credit for it. But to me the match still felt a bit forced and like I said it could have been done without the use of the cell so it defeats the whole purpose of the cell really. The cell just stood there like a big, clueless 25 foot misfit. 

The fact that it garners such a reaction by doing so little should make it a 5 star match. As a matter of fact, I'm all for less is more. But on this occasion, I don't know. 

It kind of reminds me of Flair/HBK. Now that's a match I really, really got into. To me that told more of an emotional story and it didn't rely on "End it!" and finisher kick outs to garner emotion. To me, that's more impressive. The moves told the story.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I agree with you and I give them the credit for it. But to me the match still felt a bit forced and like I said it could have been done without the use of the cell so it defeats the whole purpose of the cell really. The cell just stood there like a big, clueless 25 foot misfit.
> 
> The fact that it garners such a reaction by doing so little should make it a 5 star match. As a matter of fact, I'm all for less is more. But on this occasion, I don't know.
> 
> It kind of reminds me of Flair/HBK. Now that's a match I really, really got into. To me that told more of an emotional story and it didn't rely on "End it!" and finisher kick outs to garner emotion. To me, that's more impressive. The moves told the story.


I understand what you're saying and it's certainly a valid opinion. Going into the match, I wasn't expecting alot of violence. This is a PG company. There is no way they were going to be throwing eachother or falling off the cell or even using it as a weapon all that much. Hell, even the chairshots in the match, none of them were at the head. Which I don't have a problem with at all, but illustrates that they're not going to overdo it with violence like they used to with these matches.

I actually wasn't expecting all that great of a match going into it. Maybe that's why I hold it in higher regard. I thought it would be a mediocre match added to the fact that I knew there would be very little violence. I have to admit, they completely blew away my expectations. I think it's one of the best matches of this year, but certainly not one of the greatest of all time or anything crazy like that.

Alot of aspects of the WWE are forced these days. Wrestlers are shoved down our throats like crazy in this era. I don't think the match was anymore forced or stale than anything else in WWE these days.

The Flair/HBK match had the advantage of being the last match of the greatest wrestler of all time. That in itself is a great story. Not many matches have the advantage of having the greatest of all time in a retirement match. It almost writes itself.

But I certainly respect your opinion and it's a valid/fair one to have. And truth be told, I don't think we're that far apart on this match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FuckChristmas said:


> Came up with a way to rank the WWE PPV's this year.
> 
> Points System:
> 
> ...


Oooo, sounds fun:

*Royal Rumble - 6*

Bryan Vs Show Vs Henry - Solid
Cena vs. Kane- Solid
Punk Vs Ziggler - Great
Royal Rumble- Solid

*Elimination Chamber - 3*

WWE Title Chamber- Good
WHC Chamber- Solid

*WrestleMania - 10*

Kane Vs Orton - Solid
Undertaker Vs HHH - Great
Punk Vs Jericho - Epic
Rock vs. Cena- Solid

*Extreme Rules - 9*

Sheamus Vs Bryan - Great
Punk Vs Jericho - Great
Cena Vs Lesnar - Great

*Over The Limit - 8*

Fatal Four Way WHC- Solid
Punk Vs Bryan - Epic and MOTY

*No Way Out - 6*

Sheamus Vs Ziggler - Good
Christian Vs Cody - Good
Punk Vs Kane Vs Bryan - Good

*Money in the Bank - 4*

Punk Vs Bryan - Solid
SD MITB- Good
Raw MITB- Solid

*SummerSlam - 3*

Jericho Vs Ziggler - Solid
Bryan Vs Kane - Solid
Lesnar Vs HHH - Solid

*Night of Champions - 6*

Orton Vs Ziggler - Good
Eve Vs Layla - Solid
Punk Vs Cena - Great

*Hell in a Cell - 5*

Team Rhodes Scholars Vs Team Hell No - Solid
Show Vs Sheamus - Great
Punk vs. Ryback- Solid

*Survior Series- 4*

Team Ziggler vs. Team Foley- Good
Sheamus Vs Show - Solid
Punk vs. Cena vs. Ryback- Solid

*TLC - 11*

Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - Epic
Cena vs. Ziggler- Great
Barrett vs. Kofi- Solid
Sheamus vs. Show- Solid
Rhode Scolars vs. Mysterio and Cara- Solid


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bryan/Punk <3

LOVE that fucking match. In an alternate universe where Brock doesn't leave the UFC, this is the hands down MOTY bar none. This is the PG Era's answer to Benoit/Angle in terms of being an amazing WRESTLING match that was more about the WRASSLIN' than anything else.

Speaking of chambers, I have a ton of love for both SD and RAW's chamber in 2011. Both get ****** tossed at it fairly easily from myself. Thought all stories were advanced really well, Orton-Punk was worked really well in the RAW match, while REY-EDGE stole the fucking show in the Smackdown chamber... Since Del Rio was the RR winner, the anticipation was on for Rey to actually win it.

I've already talked about the HHH-Taker HIAC enough, but I would consider myself to be one of the harsher critics of the match, despite still calling it a classic and giving it a great ***** 1/4* rating. Speaks magnitudes to the impact it had in the wrestling community this year to be such a hands down MOTY in some circles. Still think there's no going wrong with Brock/Cena, Punk/Bryan, or HHH/Taker depending on personal taste.

OH SHIT... GOTTA POST MY RANKINGZZZZZ


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Still think there's no going wrong with Brock/Cena, Punk/Bryan, or HHH/Taker depending on personal taste.


Agreed, and same with the 6-man TLC imo.

Punk/Bryan is for them pure wrestling geeks. Brock/Cena is for those HARDCORE!!11111 marks. Taker/HHH is for dem people who can't live without a good story, and 6-man TLC is for those crazy fans who love spots and chaos in a match. They each have their own little category marked and depending on where you go, these are the four matches I'd think you'd see mostly as the MOTY for people. Hell, the best match of the year poll proves this to this point.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

You know, I was thinking the same thing! After finishing Punk/Bryan the first thing that popped to my head was that it was exactly like this generation's Angle/Benoit. Can't say I really enjoyed that one as much as others either 

I guess maybe pure wrestling isn't my thing. Unless it's that brute, European style wrestling that Finlay and Regal are absolute bosses at!

If Ambrose/Regal II were a RAW or SD match, that would have definitely made my top 10. I give both matches ****1/2 but I give the first bout more of an edge though. It was just nastier in terms of psychology. I mean Regal/Ambrose had the ear (which I'm surprised WWE allowed) but it was just some mind boggling psychology in their first encounter. Regal fucked that arm up of Ambrose big time. I love it when wrestlers get innovative with the ring.

Oh shit, just thinking bout these matches wants to make me say 5 stars lol. You ever get that feeling like when you can't stop talking about a match and then all of a sudden it goes from a ****1/2 match in your head to a 5 star match?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

For anyone who is interested in watching the full HHH/Cactus Jack match from Royal Rumble 2000. Here is a good video!

http://vbox7.com/play:8106ef50&al=2&vid=4216800


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

They had the Cactus Jack vs. Triple H match from the Royal Rumble in it's ENTIRETY on YouTube in awesome quality earlier this year. Guess they removed it. Daaaamn

Awesome fucking match though (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> People who disagree with Meltzer's star ratings just don't understand the business.


Don't understand that Kurt Angle is the greatest in ring worker of all time.

I'm down: _(only going to mention the shows I've seen more than once)_

*Royal Rumble* - 4

Cena vs Kane - Good
Punker vs Dolph - Solid

*Elimination Chamber* - 2

Cena vs Kane - Solid

*WrestleMania 28* - 8

Kane vs Orton - Solid
Undertaker vs Triple H - Great
Punk vs Jericho - Epic
Cena vs Rock - Solid

*Extreme Rules* - 10

Kane vs Orton - Good
Danielson vs Sheamus - Epic
Punk vs Jericho - Great
Cena vs BROCK - MOTY

*Over The Limit* - 6

Kofi/Truth vs Dolph/Swagger - Good
Sheamus vs Jericho vs Orton vs Del Rio - Good
Rhodes vs Christian - Solid
Punk vs Danielson - Epic

*No Way Out* - 6

Sheamus vs Dolph - Good
Christian vs Rhodes - Good
4 Way Tag - Solid
Punk vs Danielson vs Kane - Great

*Money In The Bank* - 8

World Championship MITB - Great
Sheamus vs Del Rio - Solid
Punk vs Danielson - Epic
WWE Championship MITB - Good

*Hell in a Cell* - 5

Sheamus vs Big Show - Great

*TLC: Tables, Ladders, & Chairs* - 5

The Shield vs Hell No & Ryback - Epic
Sheamus vs Big Show - Solid
Cena vs Dolph - Solid


Need to give NOC a watch and give Summerslam & Survivor Series another go around. It's funny, I put down NWO quite a bit thanks to the iffy crowd and half of the show being poor, but outside of Cena/Show the matches that sucked really were forgivable. I think it's got just a dull vibe attached to it. It really does have some good matches on it. I stand by the fact that Over The Limit isn't nearly as abyssmal as some said. Only what ended it was god awful. I loved MITB so much. Rumble was meh & Chamber was pretty bad. That's the weakest event of the year, imo. Best match was a solid Cena vs Kane match. At least events like Hell in a Cell & Survivor Series had the Show vs Sheamus matches to save them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm pretty sure the Cynical Miracle's comments about Meltzer were sarcastic. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course it was. So was mine. :hayley1


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what would you rate STEINER GOLDBERG from fall brawl 2000


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last time I had it at a whopping ****1/2. I'll watch it right now via the links you posted to see if that stands.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)




----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Of course it was. So was mine. :hayley1



So you DO understand that Kurt Angle is the greatest of all time, then. 

I remember when this was The Kurt Angle Thread. You think HHH is brought up a lot now? This is nothing. And we had 'what are your favourite ladder matches' like every three days for some reason.

Trying not to derail the thread, I'll just one-sentence the PPVs I saw in full in 2012.

Rumble: bleh. Fun w/ all the alumni comebacks but not a match on the show I actually liked.
Mania: bleh. Punk/Jericho is the only match I genuinely LIKED liked.
Extreme Rules: Great show. Cena/Lesnar and Bryan/Sheamus are my top 2 WWE MOTYs.
NWO: Will never watch again. Turned me off of watching MITB and SummerSlam. Die.
NOC: Good stuff. I'd probably watch Sheamus/Del Rio, Ryder/Claudio and Punk/Cena again. I'd give Orton/Ziggler another chance even if I didn't like it. 
HIAC: SHOW/SHEAMUS. And I liked Orton/Del Rio. IIRC the rest was putrid.
Series: One match show. The rest was all right-to-putrid.
TLC: Not really 'great', but really enjoyable for a bunch of reasons. Really good overall.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Didn't you watch Over The Limit yeah1993?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kurt Angle arguments are the worst kind of arguments.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KURT SWAG. I realize his worth...on some matches. 

See, it's weird. I rank NWO as "overall" stronger than TLC going by match quality only. But TLC had one match that DESTROYED everything from NWO. And a much, much, much better crowd/atmosphere. It's only I didn't find the undercard to be as good as NWO. It was good on the aspect of the right people winning the first two matches and Kofi/Barrett being tolerable for me. I think this really comes down to NWO being a weird PPV in general. It's both shitty and solid all in one. You'll have a match worth seeing then something that makes you want to punch a wall right after it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't like any match on the NWO card. I guess the three-way was pretty cool. That's.....it.



Mrs Claus's Cleavage said:


> Didn't you watch Over The Limit yeah1993?


Nup, I've only gone and watched Punk/Bryan and Christian/Cody. The rest looks boring. I might watch Cena/Ace when I feel like I deserve punishment for something.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't like any match on the NWO card. I guess the three-way was pretty cool. That's.....it.
> 
> 
> 
> Nup, I've only gone and watched Punk/Bryan and Christian/Cody. The rest looks boring. I might watch Cena/Ace when I feel like I deserve punishment for something.


I can't find a punishment worthy of watching that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 the tag team championship is actually GOOD. It shocks me. I'd say it's worth a watch. And I HATE Kofi/Killings too.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*WWE 2012*
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (Extreme Rules): *******
Triple H vs. The Undertaker (WrestleMania): *****1/2*
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank): *****1/2*
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules): *****1/4*
The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC): ******
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit): ******

Have I missed something?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk vs Mark Henry 4/2 & Punk vs Danielson 1/29, imo. 

Unless you're only doing PPV bouts. Then Sheamus vs Big Show from Hell in a Cell & CM Punk vs Chris Jericho from WrestleMania.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Punk/Henry and Sheamus/Show would be one tier below. So didn't include them. Jericho/Punk, I'm not too fond of. Don't recall the Punk/Bryan match from Jan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great match even with the DQ finish. It was 1/30, not 1/29 btw.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Decided to throw my opinion into the WWE PPV rankings of this year.

*Royal Rumble: 3*

Bryan/Show/Henry: Solid
Punk/Ziggler: Good

*Elimination Chamber: 3*

Raw EC: Solid
SD EC: Good (the finishing stretch and bryan's performance made this match)

*Wrestlemania: 8*

Punk/Jericho: Great
Trips/Taker: Epic

*Extreme Rules: 15*

Sheamus/Bryan: Epic
Punk/Jericho: Great
Cena/Lesnar: Epic and MOTY

*Over The Limit: 6*

Fatal Four Way WHC: Solid
Punk/Bryan: Epic (would be my MOTY if it wasn't for Cena/Lesnar)

*No Way Out: 5*

Sheamus/Ziggler: Good
Christian/Cody: Solid
Punk/Bryan/Kane; Good

*Money In The Bank: 5*

Punk/Bryan: Great
SD MITB: Good

*Summerslam: 5*

Jericho/Ziggler: Solid
Bryan/Kane: Solid
Punk/Show/Cena: Solid
Lesnar/HHH: Good

*Night Of Champions: 6*

Orton/Ziggler: Good
Eve/Layla: Solid
Punk/Cena: Great

*Hell In A Cell: 5*

Hell No/Rhodes Scholars: Solid
Show/Sheamus: Great
Punk/Ryback: Solid

*Survivor Series: 4*

Foley/Ziggler: Good
Sheamus/Show: Solid
Punk/Cena/Ryback: Solid

*TLC: 7*

The Shield/Ryback, Hell No: Epic
Sheamus/Show: Solid
Cena/Ziggler: Solid

*RANKINGS!*

1. Extreme Rules (easily PPV of the year)
2. Wrestlemania
3. TLC
4. Over The Limit
5. Night Of Champions
6. Hell In A Cell
7. Summerslam
8. Money In The Bank
9. No Way Out
10. Survivor Series
11. Elimination Chamber
12. Royal Rumble


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell in a Cell ranks up that high for you? Even with Show vs Sheamus is still a pretty low standard event for myself. It appears you didn't think OTL was bad either. I feel the same. Granted I know I'd put Money in the Bank over it. I seem to be the biggest advocate of that event. 3rd best PPV of the year, imo.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Hell in a Cell ranks up that high for you? Even with Show vs Sheamus is still a pretty low standard event for myself. It appears you didn't think OTL was bad either. I feel the same. Granted I know I'd put Money in the Bank over it. I seem to be the biggest advocate of that event. 3rd best PPV of the year, imo.


For ties I ordered the PPV's in order of how much I liked some matches over the others. I freaking love Show/Sheamus so that raised it above the other PPV's it was tied with.

OTL was awesome purely for Punk/Bryan, it was pretty much a one match show and I rate it that highly because I love that match so much and the fact that I've blocked Cena/Laurinaitis from my mind

MITB was a fun PPV but I didn't personally enjoy that Punk/Bryan match as much as Show/Sheamus, and the SD MITB even with dolph's epic tensai bump wasn't enough to put it over HIAC.

EDIT: Oh I've probably mentioned this before but the fact that you have BTBAM lyrics from Swim To The Moon in your signature makes you awesome


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah, so it was based upon the one standout match opposed to collectively. I got ya. Hell in a Cell overall was just there to me. Nothing stuck out except for the obvious in Sheamus vs Show. Tag Championship was solid. Hated the finish though. Rhodes Scholars can lose clean on TV, but not on PPV?

haha. You're about the 5th person to mention the BTBAM swag.  (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

forget wrestling i posted your file exchange rtequest CODY <3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just saw it. Getting it NOW.

!!!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm glad.  

did you rewatch goldberg/steiner?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Absolutely. 

****. I could have done without the interference, but I get it. Not only b/c it was WCW's tendency, but also b/c it fit the whole "it's unscripted/legit" personal type deal. It's one hell of a MANLY bout. I'd say vs DDP was overall better, but both are the best of his career.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HE REFUSED TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOLDBERG DIDN'T DO THE JOB


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

it's like the best bad movie ever


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HE DID THE UNTHINKABLE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

New Blood Rising. The only PPV to have someone NOT FOLLOW THE SCRIPT, see a Judy Bagwell on a Pole Match, The Cat beat Great Muta clean, 6 guys compete in a ladder match for a fake gold record, & have a championship match competed under "Canadian" rules.

I love WCW.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i've got to see this PPV


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys, how would you rate the match between Cena and Orton for the WWE Championshio from Summerslam 2007?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

From memory (havent seen it in a while) it was a good match and I liked it. Probably *** 1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***, and probably the lowest *** match ever .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Christmas-Sale/page1.html :mark:

Just picked up RR, WM and ER on Bluray :mark:. Under £22 in total with the 10% off for ordering at least 3 things .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HE REFUSED TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT :lol

STEINER-GOLDBERG. What a fucking match. Bow down to lord Steiner right now KTHX


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

FuckChristmas said:


> http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Christmas-Sale/page1.html :mark:
> 
> Just picked up RR, WM and ER on Bluray :mark:. Under £22 in total with the 10% off for ordering at least 3 things .


Thanks for the link! Just ordered WM,ER and ECW unreleased vol1 on Blu-fn-ray!! Yihaaa!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not really high on ANY Orton-Cena match besides No Way Out 2008, that's fucking awesome 

You guys have any "CHRISTMAS WATCHINGS" lined up ? Fuck I got so much shit to watch starting tomorrow, including TWENTY FOUR WRESTLEMANIAS and a whole plethora of other releases. 

Gonna read BORK's book while wearing a BORK shirt. BORK. :brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only got the 2009 and 2010 Orton & Cena matches to go before I'm finished with the series! Then you can know what I think about them. 



FuckChristmas said:


> Came up with a way to rank the WWE PPV's this year.
> 
> Points System:
> 
> ...


I'll give this a go.

*Royal Rumble - 2*
Steel Cage Triple Threat - Solid
Kane vs John Cena - Solid

*Elimination Chamber - 0*

*Wrestlemania XXVIII - 10*
Kane vs Orton - Solid
Undertaker vs Triple H - Epic
Punk vs Jericho - Solid
Rock vs Cena - Great

*Extreme Rules - 10*
Orton vs Kane - Solid
Sheamus vs Bryan - Great
Lesnar vs Cena - Epic & MOTY

*Over the Limit - 5*
Sheamus vs Orton vs Jericho vs Del Rio - Great
Bryan vs Punk - Good

*Money in the Bank - 2*
Smackdown MITB - Solid
Raw MITB - Solid

*SummerSlam - 3*
Jericho vs Ziggler - Solid
Lesnar vs Triple H - Good

*Night of Champions - 3*
Orton vs Ziggler - Solid
Punk vs Cena - Good

*Hell in a Cell - 3*
Sheamus vs Big Show - Great

*Survivor Series - 1*
Big Show vs Sheamus - Solid

Haven't seen anything from TLC past the ladder match and barely anything from some shows (No Way Out & SummerSlam) so I might have left out some stuff with potential.

Ranking:
1. Extreme Rules
2. Wrestlemania XXVIII
3. Over the Limit
4. SummerSlam
5. Night of Champions
6. Hell in a Cell
7. Royal Rumble
8. Money in the Bank
9. Survivor Series
10. Elimination Chamber


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

*Solid - 1 (**3/4 - ***)
Good - 2 (***1/4 - ***1/2)
Great - 3 (***3/4 - ****)
Epic - 5 (****1/4+)
MOTY - 2*

*Royal Rumble - 3*
CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler - Good (***1/2)
Royal Rumble Match - Solid (***)

*Elimination Chamber - 2*
RAW Elimination Chamber Match - Good (***1/4)

*Wrestlemania XXVIII - 14*
Undertaker vs. Triple H - Epic, MOTY (****1/2)
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - Epic (****1/4)
The Rock vs. John Cena - Good (***1/2)

*Extreme Rules - 10*
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - Great (****)
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - Epic (****1/4)
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Good (***1/2)

*Over the Limit - 8*
Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio - Great (***3/4)
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Epic (****1/2)

*No Way Out - 5*
Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - Great (***3/4)
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - Good (***1/2)

*Money in the Bank - 3* 
Smackdown Money in the Bank Match - Solid (***)
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Good (***1/2)

*Summerslam - 3*
Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler - Solid (***)
CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - Good (***1/2)
Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H - Garbage

*Night of Champions - 6*
Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler - Solid (***)
John Cena vs. CM Punk - Epic (****1/4)

*Hell in a Cell - 3*
Sheamus vs. Big Show - Great (***3/4)

*Survivor Series - 2*
CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback - Good (***1/4)

*Tables, Ladders and Chairs - 3*
The Shield vs. Ryback, Daniel Bryan and Kane - Great (****)

Ranking:

1. Wrestlemania XXVIII - 14
2. Extreme Rules - 10
3. Over the Limit - 8
4. Night of Champions - 6
5. No Way Out - 5
6. TLC - 3
7. Royal Rumble - 3
8. Money in the Bank - 3
9. Summerslam - 3
10. Hell in a Cell - 3
11. Survivor Series - 2
12. Elimination Chamber - 2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> I'm not really high on ANY Orton-Cena match besides No Way Out 2008, that's fucking awesome


Is that the one where Orton slapped the ref? If so, then yes, that was an awesome match. 

Though to be fair I haven't watched any of the other Orton/Cena 1 v 1 matches. I haven't heard good things.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NWO 08 really is the only one worth watching. BP 09 maybe, but the finish can really kill it for some people. I'm sort of in the middle.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Great match even with the DQ finish. It was 1/30, not 1/29 btw.


Yeah, that was a great match. I was excited to see them working with one another that night. I found their Smackdown encounter to be even better. 



Srdjan99 said:


> Guys, how would you rate the match between Cena and Orton for the WWE Championshio from Summerslam 2007?


It was a good match for what it was. Nothing special though. The first 5 minutes of the match were dull but it started to pick up afterwards. Their best encounter for me is their Hell in a Cell match at Hell in a Cell 2009. Orton vs Cena at Bragging Rights is close second. 

Speaking of Hell in a Cell matches, I can't stop watching Batista and Triple H's Hell in a Cell match at Vengeance 2005. Probably the best Hell in a Cell match I ever seen based on the brutality and intensity of it. Batista was over as hell that night. I always wondered what Raw in 2006 would have been like if he still stayed on Raw and Cena still stayed on Smackdown.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alim said:


> Is that the one where Orton slapped the ref? If so, then yes, that was an awesome match.
> 
> Though to be fair I haven't watched any of the other Orton/Cena 1 v 1 matches. I haven't heard good things.


I claimed that I'll save my thoughts for when I'm finished with the series but I have to break the silence to respond here.

Their Raw match in February 2007 was a good TV match, SummerSlam 07, NWO 08, Breaking Point 09 and Bragging Rights 09 are all worth watching. I think HIAC is also decent. Even SummerSlam 09 wouldn't be bad had it not been for the overbooking.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The only Cena/Orton match I like is at Breaking Point. ****1/2 from me.

I've yet to see their NWO '08 match but that's mostly because I can't find a single file video for it. I'm only getting it in parts and it disrupts the flow of the match for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> The only Cena/Orton match I like is at Breaking Point. ****1/2 from me.
> 
> I've yet to see their NWO '08 match but that's mostly because I can't find a single file video for it. I'm only getting it in parts and it disrupts the flow of the match for me.







Glad I'm not the only one hating matches being divided in parts.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Alim said:


> Is that the one where Orton slapped the ref? If so, then yes, that was an awesome match.
> 
> Though to be fair I haven't watched any of the other Orton/Cena 1 v 1 matches. I haven't heard good things.


No Way Out 2008 was awesome...all their other matches pale in comparison. 


Christmas watch list:
Night of Champions 2012, never seen the event. Bought it and Money In The Bank 2012 for myself as Xmas gifts. Probably won't watch them both on the same day either.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Those youtube videos that are in like 3 parts for a 2 minute match pisses me off too.

I love the NWO '08 Orton/Cena but I dislike the BP '09 one on the same level as the HIAC, SS '09 and BR. A couple spots in the BR match I did think were cool though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> I'm not really high on ANY Orton-Cena match besides No Way Out 2008, that's fucking awesome
> 
> You guys have any "CHRISTMAS WATCHINGS" lined up ? Fuck I got so much shit to watch starting tomorrow, including TWENTY FOUR WRESTLEMANIAS and a whole plethora of other releases.
> 
> Gonna read BORK's book while wearing a BORK shirt. BORK. :brock


I've got a ass ton of TNA PPVs to watch with my brother. Gonna cram that shiz like mad tomorrow. MERRY CHRISTMAS :mark:



KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> i've got to see this PPV







Forgot about this gem on the event too :lmao

As for Cena vs Orton matches, I don't hate them. I actually think I like more than I dislike. Breaking Point is their best match. I'll gladly take it over the awesome NWO '08 match. Summerslam '07 is quite good too. Maybe I'll watch their iron man match tonight. :hmm:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Re-watching this match again, damn was it a good Raw main event match. I'd put this on the list of great TV matches of 2012 along with CM Punk vs Mark Henry's NO DQ match on Raw. Kofi Kingston and Dolph Ziggler's match on Raw 9/24/12 gets a nod as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Opened up a present from my mates early . History of the WHC DVD set . Wanted it mainly for the doc, don't remember what matches are on it .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only noteworthy part about Dolph vs Kingston was that the crowd went ape for it. Nothing special much like ALL of their matches. Fuckin Kofi, man.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

FuckChristmas said:


> Opened up a present from my mates early . History of the WHC DVD set . Wanted it mainly for the doc, don't remember what matches are on it .


(Y) Plus, it has one of your personal favorites on the match list - the Vader/Steamboat Human Cage Match! 

Along with Flair/Sting GAB, Flair/Magnum, Flair/Steiner, Flair/Hogan Cage, Rock/Jericho, Taker/Angle NWO, Orton/Mysterio Sd after Mania 22, Batista/Edge/Taker, Cena/Jericho SSeries, etc.

O'Connor/Rogers is really good too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Only noteworthy part about Dolph vs Kingston was that the crowd went ape for it. Nothing special much like ALL of their matches. Fuckin Kofi, man.



All Ziggler/Kofi matches are in the ***-***1/2 range for me. The fact that they've had 1000 matches yet everytime still manage to entertain is pretty darn impressive. Their matches aren't anythign to go crazy over but if you happen to get yet another Kofi/Ziggler match the last thing you would be saying "This match fucking blew" 

Btw, the crowd went apeshit for Ziggler/Kofi part 695695695? On RAW? I gotta see it to believe it lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> (Y) Plus, it has one of your personal favorites on the match list - the Vader/Steamboat Human Cage Match!
> 
> Along with Flair/Sting GAB, Flair/Magnum, Flair/Steiner, Flair/Hogan Cage, Rock/Jericho, Taker/Angle NWO, Orton/Mysterio Sd after Mania 22, Batista/Edge/Taker, Cena/Jericho SSeries, etc.
> 
> O'Connor/Rogers is really good too.


Is the Human Cage match on another set? I feel like I already own it on something other than the Steamboat and Vader comps, and I'd be shocked if I didn't own it until now lol.

Rest of the listing looks hit and miss. Flair/Sting can always go fuck itself, regardless of which match it is .

As for Ziggler/Kofi, I hope we never see them wrestle again. In fact, I just never want to see Kofi wrestle again. Don't like their matches together for the most part.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> All Ziggler/Kofi matches are in the ***-***1/2 range for me. The fact that they've had 1000 matches yet everytime still manage to entertain is pretty darn impressive. Their matches aren't anythign to go crazy over but if you happen to get yet another Kofi/Ziggler match the last thing you would be saying "This match fucking blew"
> 
> Btw, the crowd went apeshit for Ziggler/Kofi part 695695695? On RAW? I gotta see it to believe it lol.


They're the same match every single time. No thanks. Dolph's better than working with trash like Kingston.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

FuckChristmas said:


> Is the Human Cage match on another set? I feel like I already own it on something other than the Steamboat and Vader comps, and I'd be shocked if I didn't own it until now lol.
> 
> Rest of the listing looks hit and miss. Flair/Sting can always go fuck itself, regardless of which match it is .


I don't think it is on another set. Well, this is the only set I have it on.

I love the Flair/Sting match at Great American Bash. Not as much as the first Clash but it's very enjoyable with a good finish. Hogan's matches with Sting and Goldberg are misses on the set as far as match quality but were only added because they were so high profile. They probably didn't want to add another Flair match to the set as he had several matches on there already (wouldn't mind another Flair set tbh). They should have added a Sting/Vader match but Vader already had two matches himself on the DVD. The Simmons match was solid I thought. Certainly a great & history moment for Ron and wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Goldberg on that set is so annoying. I get it was big, but I own it on like 4 discs. Do I really need to relive a bad 8 minute match that many times? Especially when WWE edits out Goldberg's theme song which in turn edits out the AWESOME fan reaction. Thus making it worthless.

I've thought about this many times. It frustrates me to unfathomable lengths.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DOLPH

Kenny did you watch the epic Sting vs DEMON match?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

nope?
I'll watch when I'm home I'm on my phone arm. link me though.

top 10 DOLPH matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I posted it a page back. (Y)

top 10? Umm. Let me think. I know these make the cut:

vs Punk ~ RAW 11/21/11
vs Mysterio ~ NOC & Summerslam '09
vs Sheamus (multiple times)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top DOLPH:

Vs Bryan PPV
Vs Bryan Raw
Vs Bryan SD
Vs Punk Raw
Vs Sheamus PPV

Too tired to look up dates and other matches .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao @ me forgetting about the matches vs Danielson.

Yep, I'm blaming it on sleep too. I'm not myself today.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My favorite Ziggler match is this one with Orton. Absolutely awesome!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Seeing as we're on the subject of Ziggler, here's two awesome matches of his that come to mind. Ziggler's had many great matches with the likes of: Punk, Bryan, Sheamus and Orton (as pointed out by Choke2Death's post above).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton matches are entertaining, but none have leaped out as being that great to me. Granted, I haven't watched Night of Champions 2010 yet. I'd take Sheamus vs Dolph matches over Orton vs Dolph.

Dolph vs Danielson though. Now that's where it is at. + Mysterio. Fantastic chemistry.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Orton/Ziggler match I posted is a legit 4 star for me.

And for anyone interested, my top 50 matches from 2005 is coming along nicely! I've put all the matches worth consideration in a note saved but when I'm finished with the whole year (only a couple of shows left plus Armageddon), I'll rewatch some of the TV stuff to refresh my memory.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*** for me. I loved the superkick counter. Orton's consistency is good, but a lot of his matches tend to have the same finishing stretch. That match really wasn't any different in the long run. Dolph was the star of the match over Orton.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As I said in one of my last posts, I would go back and watch my Top 10 and figure out where everything stands. I've done a write up on a few of the matches, including Punk/Bryan yesterday or the day before. Didn't feel like doing a big write-up on everything, but I'll leave a quick note on the matches I didn't:

Top 10 of the Year (Final List... for the most part):

*1) CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan for the WWE Championship - Over The Limit: ******
-See review I just made a few pages back

*2) Ambrose, Rollins, and Reins (The Shield) vs. Daniel Bryan, Kane (Team Hell No) and Ryback in a TLC Match - Tables Ladder and Chairs: ****1/2*
-Just an awesomely fun match that's based on pure fun, my match of the year. Third watch and I think I actually love it more than the first. Match did an amazing job of putting over The Shield, as well as Team Hell No and Ryback. Arguably best TLC match ever. Certainly would be in top 5 in my view.

*3) Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus for the World Heavyweight Championship in a 2 out of 3 Falls Match - Extreme Rules: ****1/4*
- Bryan/Sheamus was... actully better than I remember it. For one, Bryan looked a lot stronger than I remember throughout the match... well up until the finish. Anytime a finishing taunt leads to a successful finisher is done in a big match and leads to the victory, it's a bad move imo and this is no exception. Still though, the first fall was full of awesomeness. Bryan out-wrestling Sheamus, having more endurance than Sheamus and using that to his advantage, and then how he ends the first fall by massacuring Sheamus' left arm was all done in a fantastic way. This leads to the second fall ending quickly as Bryan makes Sheamus pass out. It always annoys me how Sheamus passes out and doesn't tap out. Would've been nice to see some vulnerability from Sheamus, and it's not like it was a one fall match or the last fall where I would've understood the pass out. That being said, it's annoyed me less and less on each watch, so who knows. I must say though had this been the end of the match, and it'd only been one fall, I would've easily slapped on ****1/2 or maybe even ****3/4 for it. Second fall being so short combined with the third fall being 95% typical face comeback shit, it knocks it down a peg for me. That being said, the match is still a borderline classic, and honestly I may even put it as the best 3SOH match in WWE, maybe. I'd need to re-watch Austin/HHH NWO 01 to be sure (which I have at ****1/4 right now), but it's definitely up there. Awesome match. Sheamus' best match easily.

*4) CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho for the WWE Championship - Wrestlemania 28: ****1/4*
-Lowered this match a bit on this watch. It's not so much that I think much less of it, but just when comparing it some of the matches above, it doesn't quite hold up, especially the Punk/Bryan match, which is probably the most similar to it. Still an awesome match and Match of the Night for Wrestlemania.

*5) Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena in an Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules: ****1/4*
-So wow, Lesnar/Cena improved drastically in my eyes. Granted, I still don't have it quite as high as others and wouldn't dare call it my MOTY, but it's in my top 5. I don't know what it was about this watch that made it so different, but I was actually very into the match today. First off, I've always commended the brutality of the match and that hasn't changed. Just fucking awesome to see a match like this in 2012, to see blood in a match in 2012, and it really does help elevate a brutal-type match like this. Lesnar just owning Cena for 95% of the match is always fun to watch... hell Cena getting beatdown like this is always fun to watch. Lesnar just demolishes Cena, and puts him in a position he's never been in before. Cena was completely out-matched by Lesnar in strength, speed, wrestling skill, everything. Cena got in a few shots on Lesnar, but the match was all Lesnar. Loved how he didn't end up using the chain to whack Cena and instead tied it around Cena's legs to just fuck with Cena some more. Not to mention licking Cena's blood... what a fucking beast Lesnar is. And then of course the crazy dive off the steps, over the top rope that should've injured Lesnar right then and there... it didn't. And Lesnar's triumph over that fact was hilarious and awesome at the same time. And then he goes for it again! Of course then there's the ending, with Cena hitting Lesnar with the chain, hitting the AA, and beating Lesnar. Now let me get something straight. I don't have a problem with how the finish was done (anymore). I think it was the best way they could've done a Cena win looking back on the match. The problem is Cena still shouldn't have won. Lesnar losing the return match really did hurt his credibility imo, even if he did destroy Cena throughout. Had Lesnar beat Cena, and the match with HHH had gone similarly to Lesnar/Cena, at this point I wouldn't be able to believe how anyone could beat Lesnar. Destroying HHH (like he did Cena) and destroying Cena, not to mention of course having a win over them both. No way I would believe anyone being able to beat Lesnar except Taker at Wrestlemania, and kayfabe wise Lesnar would've looked like he could beat and end Taker's career at Mania. That being said, he didn't beat Cena, and his match with HHH was way too evenly matched where Lesnar didn't look like the beast he was with Cena. On one hand if Lesnar/Rock happened now, I could believe that being a lot more competitve than I would otherwise. On the other hand, it's a shame how they fucked up Lesnar since his return. While it's good the last note he had in WWE to this point was a win over HHH, he should've also beat Cena at ER. Oh well, awesome match, top 5 of the year imo. 

*6) CM Punk vs. Mark Henry for the WWE Championship - Raw 4/2/2012: *****
-This match is TV MOTY easily for me. The psychology of the match is off the charts with Henry just absolutely demolishing Punk as the far stronger individual, not to mention throwing in some verbal assaults which were hilarious. Punk played the babyface in peril to perfection in this match and every single strike on Henry felt like a move of desperation by Punk. Not to mention Punk's flurries on Henry didn't last very long and Henry just kept pounding Punk over and over again. Punk losing by count out actually works in this case as they weren't going to put the title on Henry, yet it still made Henry look strong. The way Henry also was taken down as a late reaction from Punk's knees served the match well to make Henry not look like an idiot by letting Punk get counted out, and rather it was just the way it happened. Love this match and the psychology that goes along with it. The action of the match and Henry's control segments did get a bit boring as the match went on, but for the most part it's still an excellent match and both men did extremely well. It stays at ****.

*7) CM Punk vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship - Night of Champions: *****
-Match pretty much stays where it was before. Although it becomes a finisher fest, can't say it didn't keep me on the edge of my seat on first watch. I was sure after the rock-bottom, it would've been it, and then same after the second AA (it really surprised me Punk kicked out). Ending sucked though.

*8) The Undertaker vs. Triple H in Hell in a Cell with Shawn Michaels as the Guest Referee - Wrestlemania 28: *****
-Still a storytelling masterpiece. The arc starting with HBK/Flair at WM24, ending with this match, the series of Taker/HBK matches and Taker/HBK matches, is all storytelling at it's finest, and in the cell they did a great job of stuff like the hells gate which after ending last year was a pretty nice touch, though later on it would've been better as the match wasn't ending as early as it was first applied. Still don't like the whole HBK contemplating ending the match, and there wasn't any truly great false finish besides the SCM into the pedigree, which would've been better had it happened after the normal HHH pedigree. There are some awesome moments in the match like Taker sitting up and HHH falling back due to it. Taker stepping on the sledgehammer while HHH was trying to pick it up. Taker grabbing the sledgehammer after HHH tried hitting him with it. HHH's "suck it" before getting his lights knocked out. Also just want to note that I feel the same as I did before on HBK's acting. Nothing good, but by WWE's standards it wasn't that bad. HBK did the acting job as well as he needed to.
*
9) CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho for the WWE Championship in a Chicago Streetfight - Extreme Rules: ***3/4*
-Great match with some nice storytelling and all around a decent brawl. Of course it pales in comparison to Lesnar/Cena later in the night, and since I watched this match after I think I was left disappointed with this match. However, still a great match.

*10) Sheamus vs. Big Show for the World Heavyweight Championship - Hell in a Cell: ***3/4*
-Still as great as I remembered it. Sheamus kicking out of the WMD and Show kicking out of the Brogue Kick were great false finishes, especially Sheamus' kickout since nobody had kicked out of the WMD prior (when getting pinned directly after it). The WMD to end the match, countering Sheamus' brogue kick was great. Sheamus meets his match at the hands of Big Show, and not just once, but three times in total.

Just a note, Cena/Ziggler, which was on the list, I pushed down to ***1/2 and went to re-watch Sheamus/Show HIAC after that.

Top 10 Superstar Number of Matches:

CM Punk: 5
Daniel Bryan: 3 (Note: His three matches on the list were the top 3 matches on the list... take that for what it's worth)
Cena: 2
Sheamus: 2
Jericho: 2
Undertaker: 1
Lesnar: 1
HHH: 1
Ryback: 1
Reins: 1
Rollins: 1
Ambrose: 1
Kane: 1
Big Show: 1
Mark Henry: 1

Bryan having the top 3 matches is something I didn't even realize at first. Man's a fucking beast, and they were against several different opponents in different match types.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) @ Brock vs Cena going up in your book.

I'd personally take both Punker/Danielson MITB & Punker/Jericho WM over the Punk/Danielson match from Over The Limit.

I have a funny feeling my thoughts on Undertaker vs Triple H will go down so much if I rewatch atm.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I need to rewatch Sheamus/Bryan from ER. Was absolutely awesome from what I remember and I have a feeling it'll hold up a lot better than Punk/Bryan from OTL on another watch.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> (Y) @ Brock vs Cena going up in your book.
> 
> I'd personally take both Punker/Danielson MITB & Punker/Jericho WM over the Punk/Danielson match from Over The Limit.


Meh, Punk/Bryan MITB is trash compared to OTL imo. AJ as the ref combined with the match being half about her and the ending sucking took away from what good the match had imo. I'd put it at about ***. To each his own though. Punk/Jericho is awesome though and I can understand that going over Punk/Bryan OTL. 



> I need to rewatch Sheamus/Bryan from ER. Was absolutely awesome from what I remember and I have a feeling it'll hold up a lot better than Punk/Bryan from OTL on another watch.


It probably will, it doesn't have Punk in it. 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still to this day don't know how she can be looked at as a negative. (hell I still don't hate her like how everyone on this site does) I didn't even acknowledge her presence once during the match. She was out of most of it too. MITB captured my interest MUCH more than Over The Limit did. Easy choice for me.

Punk vs Jericho is probably my favorite non-Undertaker match at a WrestleMania from the last decade so I'm quite the fan. Everything I wanted and more.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wish I remembered the date but I just watched a Bourne/Masters match from Superstars in '09 that was really fun. Also watched Show/Ziggler/McIntyre/Rhodes from the first SD of '11. So much fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

9/3/09

OWNS


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

YES, that was the date. Knew it was in Sept.

Thinking about watching Superstars from the start and making a top 50 list or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was trying to find matches on Youtube atm. Ironic that you posted talking about the subject. I was gonna ask/poll you for your favorites of 2010.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I draw so many blanks on 2010. I was watching at the time, I could name you the roster, but I still have trouble putting together a list of matches from it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starting on my Taker/HBK project :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Owning every episode doesn't help? 

EDIT ~ :hb

TAKER


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Getting in the mood w/Heartbreak & Triumph


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Owning every episode doesn't help?
> 
> EDIT ~ :hb
> 
> TAKER


I've got trouble with the dates but there's a couple Ziggler/Benjamin and Ziggler/Masters matches I really enjoyed. Jericho/Tatsu and Jericho/Goldust own too.

And I'm two matches into the Taker/Batista series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reindeer Killer said:


> Getting in the mood w/Heartbreak & Triumph


I really have to watch that again. It's been a good while since I have.



Clark Griswold said:


> I've got trouble with the dates but there's a couple Ziggler/Benjamin and Ziggler/Masters matches I really enjoyed. Jericho/Tatsu and Jericho/Goldust own too.
> 
> And I'm two matches into the Taker/Batista series.


I've never seen Jericho vs Tatsu yet. I should look for it atm. One of my favorites from 2010 was Mysterio vs Kidd. Got 11 minutes and totally OWNED. If I luck out and find Masters vs McIntyre then I'll watch that too. I own their 2011 match on DVD. (Y) Well, all to be exact, but I meant their Superstars matches over their short Smackdown bouts.

Oh, Tyler Reks vs Trent Barreta have a really good match at the end of 2010 too. Only 2010 Superstars I own on DVD is the final one of the year. Which could be the best edition.

I'm 4 matches deep in Cena vs Punk series. I'm winning atm :hmm:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

So, I made the mistake of turning Raw on for a few minutes. Wow. I feel for people who are growing up on this shit. This company is beyond desperate, and I kinda love it. Thank god for DVD/Blu Ray.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My friend sent me a text saying how wacky RAW is tonight. It's not supposed to be taken seriously tonight - a fun Holiday episode. I'll buy that. I'm not going to crap on it. Too many people bitch and moan about 2012. I'll choose to look at the positives that came from the year instead.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> So, I made the mistake of turning Raw on for a few minutes. Wow. I feel for people who are growing up on this shit. This company is beyond desperate, and I kinda love it. Thank god for DVD/Blu Ray.


Lol, it's their choice. No need to feel for them. If they feel like they can put up with it, then more power to them. I personally can't and have stopped for several months now. It just feels so... dead to me. For me, all the anticipation, eagerness, fun and excitement... they're all but gone. Now I said it, I actually feel for those who tune in in hopes of seeing something good. I heard that they have even alternated the opening with the pyros and the camera angle that goes through the crowd because they are so dead. Sounds so depressing...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

It's beyond awful. There have been past years where the Christmas episode of Raw was nowhere near this stupid. And yeah, 2012 as a whole was awful, especially storyline wise. I just laugh about it, though. Not my concern.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, it's their choice. No need to feel for them. If they feel like they can put up with it, then more power to them. I personally can't and have stopped for several months now. It just feels so... dead to me. For me, all the anticipation, eagerness, fun and excitement... they're all but gone. Now I said it, I actually feel for those who tune in in hopes of seeing something good. I heard that they have even alternated the opening with the pyros and the camera angle that goes through the crowd because they are so dead. Sounds so depressing...


So true. I watched a Raw from 97 & 98 on WWE Classics on Demand this past week, and the difference in crowds from then and now are night & day. The amount of signs in the crowd alone from then to now is a huge difference. Lots of expression from the fans back then, and they didn't collect the signs. Certainly no piped in crowd noise, either. It's beyond stale right now. Like I said, thank GOD for DVD/Blu Ray, and Classics on Demand!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd take 2012 over 2011. Said that before. My interest was WAY more dead during 2011. All the company had going for it to interest me was CM Punk. Now it's got more things for me to care such as The Shield, DOLPH, & my current favorite Cesaro. Sheamus is on top, which I love. Fuck the awful idiots who think he's bad. Randy Orton isn't anywhere to kill my interest. Cody Rhodes is still around and he's got a hell of a new talent in Sandow along with him. Hell No brings the entertainment. I don't dislike Ryback. He's not pretty, but oh well. Neither was Goldberg. That's not what they're trying for. 

There are things I don't like and I'll groan from time to time. Basically any time I have to deal with Kofi winning something. He's the only major negative that I can name off the top of my head.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Superstar Collection: Daniel Bryan*

Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho - ** 1/2
_NXT 2/23/2010_

*United States Championship
*The Miz (c) vs. Daniel Bryan - ****
_Night of Champions 2010_

*SmackDown Money in the Bank Ladder Match*
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Wade Barrett vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Sin Cara vs. Kane vs. Heath Slater vs. Justin Gabriel - ****
_Money in the Bank 2011_

Daniel Bryan vs. Mark Henry - ** 3/4
_SmackDown 11/4/2011_

*World Heavyweight Championship - Steel Cage Match*
Daniel Bryan (c) vs. Big Show vs. Mark Henry - ** 1/4
_Royal Rumble 2012_


*Overall: 8/10*

- Bryan/Jericho is nowhere near what either guy is capable of, in fact both of them seemed off against one another, but once Bryan "hit" that Benoit-esque dive to the outside they did a fantastic job of getting him over as a guy who can go toe to toe with the best in the company. Nice to see a heel hook in a WWE match as well, can't say I've ever seen it since.

- I had heard a lot of good things about the Night of Champions match, but this seriously surprised me. Had more psychology and structure than any other Miz match I've ever seen. Bryan's selling of the arm was absolutely perfect, especially as he struggled to sinch in the Labelle Lock. I'd say it's Miz's best singles match of his career, and amazingly it wasn't _all_ because of his opponent. Hella good stuff that woke the crowd up big time in the final few minutes. Top 5 for WWE in 2010? High possibility.

- MITB Ladder match was WAY better than I remembered. The first half is nonstop action with no down time and it's fucking awesome. Once Cara takes the power bomb through the ladder the match slows down significantly, but I didn't really mind it because they still came up with some innovative spots and threw in a couple little mini stories. Doomsday Device that sparked the LOD chant was awesome & Gabriel's 450 off the unsteady ladder is probably one of the most impressive things I've ever seen. One of the longer MITB matches you'll see these days but all 8 guys had their moments & they all sold the physicality of the match very well. Huge :mark: moment for the finish.

- As an entire package, Bryan/Henry is great entertainment. Henry's power + Bryan's comeback + false cash in = (Y) Not much to say on the cage match. Short match but it felt long. Lot of laying down for Henry. That's about all I got. 

- This is a damn near perfect collection to showcase nearly every major moment in Bryan's WWE career. I would've really liked to see the Bragging Rights match vs. Ziggler & the Cage match with Henry instead, but I really can't complain too much about what they gave us. Perfectly acceptable way to spend 7 or 8 bucks.​


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I'd take 2012 over 2011. Said that before. My interest was WAY more dead during 2011. All the company had going for it to interest me was CM Punk. Now it's got more things for me to care such as The Shield, DOLPH, & my current favorite Cesaro. Sheamus is on top, which I love. Fuck the awful idiots who think he's bad. Randy Orton isn't anywhere to kill my interest. Cody Rhodes is still around and he's got a hell of a new talent in Sandow along with him. Hell No brings the entertainment. I don't dislike Ryback. He's not pretty, but oh well. Neither was Goldberg. That's not what they're trying for.
> 
> There are things I don't like and I'll groan from time to time. Basically any time I have to deal with Kofi winning something. He's the only major negative that I can name off the top of my head.


Fair enough. I don't even watch enough anymore to differentiate 2011 and 2012 all that much. And it's not even because I'm too busy or anything. I tune in like I always used to, but about an hour or so in, I just lose interest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's wrestling. I can't lose interest even if I tried. That's how much I live for the sport. There will always be bad and good within it. I've learned to except that years ago.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/ADR Raw 12/24/12- 10 snowflakes. Match of the Year. In fact, not only is it MOTY, but it takes up numbers 2-10 spots as well thus making it the only match in my top 10.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's Christmas here now so....

MERRY MUTHAFUCKIN' CHRISTMAS


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I love wrestling. Have since I was 7, and I'm in my late 20s now. But I don't love the current WWE product. It's terribly boring and stale to me. There's always been some bad, even when it is good, but this is something completely different.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> So true. I watched a Raw from 97 & 98 on WWE Classics on Demand this past week, and the difference in crowds from then and now are night & day. The amount of signs in the crowd alone from then to now is a huge difference. Lots of expression from the fans back then, and they didn't collect the signs. Certainly no piped in crowd noise, either. It's beyond stale right now. Like I said, thank GOD for DVD/Blu Ray, and Classics on Demand!


I agree completely. In the last 6 or so months where I've stopped watching, instead I went for the past stuff progressively from year to year. All the stuff I've watched were so much more entertaining than majority of this year. Not to mention, crowds actually have plenty of life in them. And that's not even the Attitude Era I'm talking about, but rather the mid-00s. I read some forum stuff from those years on the net and all I see is bitching about everything WWE do but little did the very same people know about how bad things would get at this point in 2012.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I'd take 2012 over 2011. Said that before. My interest was WAY more dead during 2011. All the company had going for it to interest me was CM Punk. Now it's got more things for me to care such as The Shield, DOLPH, & my current favorite Cesaro. Sheamus is on top, which I love. Fuck the awful idiots who think he's bad. Randy Orton isn't anywhere to kill my interest. Cody Rhodes is still around and he's got a hell of a new talent in Sandow along with him. Hell No brings the entertainment. I don't dislike Ryback. He's not pretty, but oh well. Neither was Goldberg. That's not what they're trying for.
> 
> There are things I don't like and I'll groan from time to time. Basically any time I have to deal with Kofi winning something. He's the only major negative that I can name off the top of my head.


Fair enough, I personally liked 2011 a lot more. Smackdown was plenty of fun to watch with the Edge/Del Rio feud in the first half and then with an enjoyable list of superstars post-draft including Orton, Christian, Sheamus, Mizark, D-Bryan, Sin Cara, Cody Rhodes while Raw was decent during RTWM with The Rock returning then given some life with an entertaining heel R-Truth around May. After his ME time was over, in came Punk with his push and shall I say, he was actually entertaining to watch for the only time in his life. There was a bit of a slow down after summer but I'd still take that period over this year any day of the week. Not to mention, 3 hours is murderous. I just cannot stay interested for 3 hours. In 2011, I can admit that I actually looked forward to every Raw and Smackdown on a weekly basis. This year I've actually had more interest in the ratings than the shows themselves. :lol


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Raw was terrible, as expected but hilarious at how bad it turned out. Such a cheesy episode, I'm sure kids ate it up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

See I can't think like that. It's bad, but meh. I'll gladly watch. The worst wrestling is always better than anything else. I'm not one of those guys who goes "oh, this is offensive to me. How dare they insult my intelligence." Such a stupid claim.

A promotion like ROH is pretty stale to me yet I continue to watch. Simple answer: b/c it's wrestling.


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

Went out and bought my first ever Blu-Ray. And it's of _The Top 100 Moments in Raw History_. I didn't really intend to buy this on Blu-Ray, as Wal-Mart was out of the DVD copies. I really enjoyed the SmackDown one that was made a few years back, so this was one of those sets that has been on my pick up list upon it's release. So far I haven't watched the bonus features on both discs. And I gave my two cents on the Raw 1000 special when it originally aired.

Considering I've only watched the countdown so far. I gotta say I have mixed feelings about it. As I didn't really care for things like Bob Barker and Shaq's appearances to hit the top one hundred. Even if the WWE are trying to add some modern things to the list. I'm sure they could of found things better than the guest host appearances. I was kinda surprised to see ECW joining The Alliance to be apart of the list. But personally I liked the Invasion storyline, so I'm not really complaining there. I wasn't expecting the beer truck to be number one on the list. But once again I'm not really complaining there, as I really enjoyed that moment.

For just watching the countdown (and the Raw 1000 episode if you count the original airdate). It's a pretty standard release from the WWE in my books. If you are like me and enjoy countdown and compilation sets, I'd say check it out. Or if you just want to see the countdown and don't really care about adding another set to your DVD/Blu-Ray collection. I'm sure there are ton of links on here to download it. It's a fun watch nonetheless. Reading the inserts (counting the Blu-Ray exclusives of Legends of Wrestling table and some extra moments). I'd give the set a 8/10


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

With respect to the whole wrestling today and 10 years ago argument, honestly, I don't care anymore. Right now I'm watching over RAW 1999 and DAT AUSTIN POP!!! You guys know which one I'm talking about, the first RAW of the year where Foley wins.

Wrestling will never be like the Attitude Era again. Why? Because that time period wasn't wrestling imo. Wrestling isn't supposed to be like that. The cursing, the rude gestures, the sexuality, the raunchiness of it. It's just not wrestling.

I know I sound like a broken record but wrestling is FUN. And yes the Attitude Era was fun but it coulnd't last. The 3 or 4 years it lasted was enough. Could you imagine if in 2012 WWE was still doing the whole Attitude thing? It just wouldn't work. You would think you'd enjoy because it's soemthing we all want so bad but really, I don't care to ever see that sort of thing in wrestling again. 

Right now WWE is good enough. Could it be better? Of course but atm, the products enjoyable. Unless it's a really shitty RAW and I mean really shitty RAW *Cough* Slammy's *Cough* I always find something to enjoy. A lot of the characters that the typical IWC fan isn't a fan of, I tend to like. Guys like Santino and Clay these guys are always welcomed in my book.

I don't take wrestling seriously because it's not meant to be taken seriously. Don't get me wrong and mistake my words for "I don't care about wrestling" but I believe fans take things way too seriously and go overboard and become obsessed with things that don't even matter. Things like ratings, buyrates, the number of signs in the crowd, the pops these things don't deter from actual enjoyment. Do they? Who cares if the ratings were low? Clearly, WWE doesn't otherwise they would be doing something about it. Obviously, if WWE were in the terrible state that the IWC makes it out to be in don't you think Vince and Co. would have done something bout it my now? And then there's the stupid notion that Vince is incompetent and is unable to even try to do anything to revive his company? Seriously? This is the guy who put WCW out of business! What have you done? Who are you to question Vince's capabilities?

I went a bit off track there. Where was I? Oh yeah, wrestling is fun. Just have fun and get into the groove of things and stop over analyzing every damn thing. The Attitude Era, the Ruthless Aggression, they're gone. They're never coming back. I don't think the current product is bad at all. Comparing today's product to the Attitude Era is like comparing apples and oranges. 

I just like wrestling too much and I have too much fun with it to ever even stop for a second to analyze shit. I see people trying to predict storylines 6 months in advance and Dolph Ziggler can't even take a piss without someone saying "He's gonna cash in" The sad thing is, if he doesn't cash in everyone gets pissed just because he didn't cash in when they wanted him to cash in. Like, what the fuck, sit back and enjoy the damn show and take your Mr. Smart Ass pants off. You'll find wrestling to be much more enjoyable. I know I did.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't find it offensive, or anything. I just find the current product boring, stale, and emotionless. The characters don't appeal to me whatsoever and most importantly, the matches I see on TV are usually nothing special. And I refuse to shell out 50 bucks for a PPV from what I see on TV. I buy WM and that's about it.

I don't even get ROH here, so I never get to see that.

I usually just depend on my DVD/Blu Ray collection (which is pretty massive) and WWE Classics on Demand.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Crowds are the only thing important to me because they can make or break a show but I watch wrestling because I've always watched it. All the new booties who cry about TV wrestling today, couldn't have been watching that shit back in the mid-90s where things were incredibly similar to today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If the wrestling is appealing, the product is appealing. Attitude Era gave us shite matches in the majority, but had a fun vibe all around. Last few years have pumped out some really strong bouts. They're even in my book. Each era had their appealing points.

If I had to select a time I wished wrestling could be at all the time for a simply hypothetical, it would be 2000. Plain and simple. It had compelling characters, hot crowds, & great matches. No one gave a damn about ratings or found any reason to complain when something less than desirable occurred.

EDIT ~ Finally. Someone who acknowledges that WWE right now is no different than how they were in the mid-90's.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Too many people take this stuff to heart. Its wrestling! Its a live action cartoon, as its always has been. I can't believe people let a brief 10 year period (1997-2008) of blood and sex dictate how wrestling, particularly WWE is "supposed to be". 


All this corny stuff happened in the 80s and early to mid 90s too. I mean I watched WWF when Bastion Booger and Duke Drosse were on cards....fuck! There's no way anyone on TV right now can chase me away.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck the haters.

I'm a *WRESTLING* fan first, so I could care less about anything that happened in 1999. That was 13 fucking years ago and we're never going to go back to that time THANK GOD. I'd rather live in an era where we have a handful of *****+* matches a year with some of the greatest moments of all time happening before our eyes (PIPE BOMB). The only MAJOR criticisms I have with the current product are their complete and utter misuse of the likes of Daniel Bryan and Ryback (Bryan should be pushed while Ryback should be slowly moving up the card ; Bryan got more over than Ryback without a forceful push) , and the fact that the company is adamant about THREE HOUR FUCKING RAWS. Nobody (No, not even Rocky) could carry a three hour show with the current roster. Love to see somebody dispute that honestly.

Without Cena and Punk, the company would be hanging together by a THREAD right now. Cena could go for a year and revenue would be fine (Punk is keeping DEM INTERNET DOLLAZ flowing), same with Punk.... If both left and gave the keys of the company to the likes of Sheamus and Orton, despite me liking both guys... They'd be FUCKED unless they pushed Bryan, Ziggler, ETC better.

So this Christmas I'm fucking glad we actually have another 1A Superstar besides John Cena in the company since BATISTA, and I don't care what anybody else says.... Orton was NEVER 1A the way Punk is 1A right now. They would never give Orton the belt this long, as much as I love Randy's in-ring stuff sometimes, and that's not me being biased whatsoever I promise.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

jonoaries said:


> Crowds are the only thing important to me because they can make or break a show but I watch wrestling because I've always watched it. All the new booties who cry about TV wrestling today, couldn't have been watching that shit back in the mid-90s where things were incredibly similar to today.


I grew p during the AE and it was so much fun for me at the time. All the swearing, THE PUPPIES, man it was the most fun a 4-7 year old kid could have.

But I really, really wished I were around for WWE in the mid 90s. Something about the colorfulness of it. I wish I were around to see the likes of Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon, Diesel and all these others. The early to mid 90s just looked like a cool time for wrestling. Oh and the red, white and blue ropes with the blue mats on the outside- DAT CLASS.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oh, I think today is very different from anyother era, whether it be Attitude Era, New Generation, 80s, etc. The talent is completely different. In any of those eras, the wrestlers had the territories to develop their character, mic skills and a chance to really hone their craft and develop their in-ring skills. They got to work in front of live crowds in different cities every night and a real chance to gauge where their skill was.

Today, you don't have that and it really, really shows. These guys are given promos to read and memorize and say on TV. WWE developmental molds these guys into the "WWE style" and what they want them to be. It's a completely different ballgame now. The writing is also awful right now. Lots of it makes no sense. There is also a lack of a big fight feel, which ties into the dead crowd thing. No heat. It's just not very compelling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

jonoaries said:


> Too many people take this stuff to heart. Its wrestling! Its a live action cartoon, as its always has been. I can't believe people let a brief 10 year period (1997-2008) of blood and sex dictate how wrestling, particularly WWE is "supposed to be".
> 
> 
> All this corny stuff happened in the 80s and early to mid 90s too. I mean I watched WWF when Bastion Booger and Duke Drosse were on cards....fuck! There's no way anyone on TV right now can chase me away.


That's what happens when the WWE section is plagued by 14 year old twats who saw something, see it getting put over, and jump on the bandwagon. 

Gobbly Gooker debuted the same night in the WWF as THE UNDERTAKER. See, wrestling (WWE for this point) has always had it's share of ups and downs. No matter what decade, era, or year it was in.

I liked the colorful cheesiness of the early 90's & late 80's. It's a lot of fun. The '95 shows were said to be really bad, but I'm actually a mark for them. Some matches suck. Sure, but some matches suck on most PPVs. The good always outweights the bad in the long run. Unless it's WrestleMania 27. The scales weren't exactly tipped evenly that night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BUT... What if Taker-HHH evens things out ?

:brock


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The product is what you make of it tbh. I was marking out like a bitch during Ryback/punk HIAC of all matches.

I really don't have any issues with the current product. The only time I really didn't give a crap was during May/June round there. Then again, those are always 2 months where WWE is at heir lowest. They just cruise for a while and then by the end of June they start to build things up for Summerslam. 

But yeah, I enjoy today's product. Damien Sandow, PTP, Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Clay (well not so much as this next guy I'm about to call) Santino motherfucking Marella, 3MB, Orton, Punk, Del Rio (recently) and Cena are all characters that I like. My favourte wrestler right now is John Cena. Unless he's facing Punk, fuck you Cena! lol.

Those are the guys I really. Well Clay...meh. As for Divas, i think Eve is a phenomenal worker. She knows how to work a character into a match. Eve vs Laya NOC id a match that both men and women should take a look at if they want to learn how to work character into a match. And she's gotten better since. The whole taking photos thing, I like that shit. Damn, I even find enjoyment in the Divas division. Well if today's product could entertain me like that, then quite frankly I will never get bored of WWE. Unless they go down the RAW 2009 route, then we'll have some problems. 

Then there's guys like Kidd, Gabriel, Usos (who I also mark for, I think they're Usos chant is getting over with the crowd) and a bunch of other talent who provide some fun matches. As evident by tonight 12 man tag. BTW, what did you guys think of it? It was insane!!

So yeah the current product, in its own way, sort of rocks.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Oh, I think today is very different from anyother era, whether it be Attitude Era, New Generation, 80s, etc. The talent is completely different. * In any of those eras, the wrestlers had the territories to develop their character, mic skills and a chance to really hone their craft and develop their in-ring skills.* They got to work in front of live crowds in different cities every night and a real chance to gauge where their skill was.
> 
> Today, you don't have that and it really, really shows. These guys are given promos to read and memorize and say on TV. * WWE developmental molds these guys into the "WWE style" and what they want them to be. It's a completely different ballgame now. The writing is also awful right now. Lots of it makes no sense. There is also a lack of a big fight feel, which ties into the dead crowd thing. No heat. It's just not very compelling.*



True. But ultimately when you came to the 'E or rather the 'Fed you had to work the "style", its that simple. It wasn't called the "WWE style" but everyone knew it. WWF programming was much different from AWA, NWA/WCW & ECW programming. It was much more about characters and generating interest than actual skill. 


Also RAW shows lack heat, PPV does well on fan reactions. Which is why I only really take PPV offerings seriously, a lot of the stuff has some build up and the crowds are more invested than on RAW or SDs. 


Its strange you mention the "big fight" feel considering the epics dropped this year. Rock/Cena, Punk/Jericho, Sheamus/Bryan, Punk/Bryan, Punk/Cena, Lesnar/Cena, Lesnar/HHH, Undertaker/HHH, Ziggler/Cena etc all "big fights" that fans were up for. There's plenty of "big fights" they just aren't giving them away on TV anymore...which can be a drag at times but they don't have to and considering the amount of PPVs they have its smarter not to.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> True. But ultimately when you came to the 'E or rather the 'Fed you had to work the "style", its that simple. It wasn't called the "WWE style" but everyone knew it. WWF programming was much different from AWA, NWA/WCW & ECW programming. It was much more about characters and generating interest than actual skill.
> 
> 
> Also RAW shows lack heat, PPV does well on fan reactions. Which is why I only really take PPV offerings seriously, a lot of the stuff has some build up and the crowds are more invested than on RAW or SDs.
> ...


Yeah, out of all of those, the only ones that I would truly put as "big fights" (on paper) are Rock/Cena (which wasn't good), Lesnar/Cena, and Taker/Triple H.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lolz. The ones that only included Attitude Era guys & one from Ruthless Aggression. Shocker.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yeah, out of all of those, the only ones that I would truly put as "big fights" (on paper) are Rock/Cena (which wasn't good), Lesnar/Cena, and Taker/Triple H.


Dude, did you watch TLC? I mean I wouldn't classify Cena/Ziggler as big fight but it had the feel. The crowd was nuts throughout. Oh and I just remembered. Sheamus/Ziggler NWO was another match the crowd gave a big fight feel to. 

Oh yeah and you're telling me The Shield vs Team Hell no and Ryback didn't have a big fight feel to it? That right there is what you call a defining moment.

Every era has its ups and downs and this era is certainly no different. To me the positives will always far outweigh the negatives.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Dude, did you watch TLC? I mean I wouldn't classify Cena/Ziggler as big fight but it had the feel. The crowd was nuts throughout. Oh and I just remembered. Sheamus/Ziggler NWO was another match the crowd gave a big fight feel to.
> 
> Oh yeah and you're telling me The Shield vs Team Hell no and Ryback didn't have a big fight feel to it? That right there is what you call a defining moment.
> 
> Every era has its ups and downs and this era is certainly no different. To me the positives will always far outweigh the negatives.


I'm talking about big time main events. And the only reason the Cena/Ziggler match had a great feel to it is because it was in NY and everyone there wanted to see Cena lose. Not because they've been waiting for this match for a long time or there is any heat in their "feud."


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To me, it's not even about sex and blood. (couldn't care less about either in a wrestling show, specially the former) I just find the product BORING. I wish I could be optimistic but I can't. It's so boring that I'll probably fall asleep the next time I'll try to watch a full 3 hours show. Punk equals a bullet to the head for me and the rest of the roster are either badly handled (Bryan) or extremely bland. I mean I like Sheamus and a little bit Ryback but that's not enough to keep me watching this boring product.

Only thing that brings me back at this point is The Rock and that's a quick fix only.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh come on dude. Please, tell me you didn't just claim that show to have a great crowd but not b/c it had with anything to do with the fans wanting to enjoy the product. DOLPH was mega-over. Doubt he'd be mega over if the fans only wanted Cena to lose and had no personal investment in anything else.

They were into the event.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I just meant about that one particular match. Not the whole show. But don't go by me. Watch a show from Classics on Demand and compare it to today and it's not the same. There's a reason why they pipe in crowd noise on Smackdown every. single. week. The same thing they used to blast WCW for every week, hahaha. Things truly have come full circle for 'ol Vince.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Why do people keep saying Bryan is being handled badly? Because he isn't in the main event picture and acting serious enough?

YES/no D-Bryan> whatever the hell he was dong before.

Wrestling is all about getting DAT REACTION and I noticed D-Bryan became a huge hit when he first turned heel round this time last year. 

Look at Dusty Rhodes. I'm sure most fans were syaing "Man look at how the WWE is treating Dusty! Just fucking him over with his stupid polka dotted panties" but shit, it got over. As a wrestler GETTING OVER is what counts. You in-ring talent doesn't mean jack shit. I don't care if you can wrestle 60 minutes. What's the point in being able to wrestle 60 minutes when I could care less to see you see wrestle 60 minutes. You have to get me to care about you wrestling for 60 minutes. It's the reason why guys like Lance Storm and Dean Malenko never gotten over past a certain audience. They were extremely dry in the character department.

And I always say, it's better to be over and not be champion than it is to be champion and not over. D-Bryan is fine where he is, if you ask me. I don't think they're mistreating or misusing him at all. They simply struck gold with an idea and they're running it. Besides, it looks like Daniel Bryan is having fun with his shtick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Nobody is even comparing eras. b/c you can't. Weren't you reading anything that people were posting? Of course those crowds were hotter. The entire product/biz was hotter. Smackdown has been piping in reactions since 2000 so yeah. It's always been annoying.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Huh? We were all just talking about past eras. Couple of people said they enjoyed the New Generation, couple said the Attitude Era had some clunkers..

But yeah, all of this from me just turning Raw on for a couple of seconds, haha. Good discussion, which is what this site is about.

EDIT Thanks for the reps, fellas! You guys just got me my 4th green bar! A fine XMas present!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Oh come on dude. Please, tell me you didn't just claim that show to have a great crowd but not b/c it had with anything to do with the fans wanting to enjoy the product. DOLPH was mega-over. Doubt he'd be mega over if the fans only wanted Cena to lose and had no personal investment in anything else.
> 
> They were into the event.


This, this and this.

The crowd was just into the entire event, not just that one match. Besides, who doesn't like Dolph? Whether it's Orton, Sheamus or Cena the guy always gets a tremendous reaction from the crowd. 

And the whole idea of the crowd cheering Dolph because they wanted to see Cena lose....well that is true. Why else do you cheer someone? You want to see them win. I think that proves just how much the fans are into the current product and its roster. It could have been Orton in there and they still would have cheered Ziggler. Cena in the match had nothing to do it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> To me the positives will always far outweigh the negatives.


I can't jump on board with this statement. At least not for WWE in 2012. Or in the last let's say three years. I know for a fact I will never go back and watch weekly episodes of Raw and Smackdown from 2010-2012 for sure like I've re-watched WWF & WCW from 1996 coming up to WWF 1999 on WWE Classics On Demand. Sure I grew up with that era, but what about 1988 NWA World Championship Wrestling? Easily watchable with compelling characters and angles, and I can appreciate looking into that particular product. Get emotionally invested in that but I can't for WWE these days other than WrestleMania season. 

The WWE isn't lacking in good-great in-ring talent, but I want character progression in the main angles of the show that lead up to matches that feel grand on an importance & emotional level. Comparatively speaking, Punk/Jericho WM match is a better wrestling match than let's say Savage/Warrior WM match but the scale the latter match was on because of the characters and the delivery put it on an almost astronomical level. I'll give credit to Punk/Jericho for having a great match. I was at ringside to witness it but that's not one of those matches that "legends are made of." It's just not. I'm not trying to slight that match but WWE product as a whole has lost a bit of its skill for creating the larger than life effect for the fan. And this is not just coming from a guy who just became an adult wrestling fan a few years ago because I know people who were adults in the 80s that notice the lack of characters and the lack of interest to draw them into the product on a weekly basis. 

WWE for the most part still knows how to hype up a WrestleMania and that's fine but I also want the life in the creative writers to produce more consistently good TV. I still enjoy watching WWE but it just is not the same. It comes in individual moments and matches now opposed to looking forward to the entire product. Even the cheese because there will always be cheese in wrestling. Wrestling should be fun, emotional, intense and even a bit wacky at times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Huh? We were all just talking about past eras. Couple of people said they enjoyed the New Generation, couple said the Attitude Era had some clunkers..
> 
> But yeah, all of this from me just turning Raw on for a couple of seconds, haha. Good discussion, which is what this site is about.
> 
> EDIT Thanks for the reps, fellas! You guys just got me my 4th green bar! A fine XMas present!


You said watch a show from back in the day - aka those two eras - and compared them to now. It's impossible to do that b/c they are much different times. It's an obvious notion that the crowds were hotter back then. Which prompted me to say it's not a surprise b/c the biz was hotter in general around the time. Wrestling is in that time where it isn't "cool" atm. It's gonna suffer. Now the product isn't that grand, but it's got it's high points. Enough to make the crowd still want to react.



sharkboy22 said:


> This, this and this.
> 
> The crowd was just into the entire event, not just that one match. Besides, who doesn't like Dolph? Whether it's Orton, Sheamus or Cena the guy always gets a tremendous reaction from the crowd.
> 
> And the whole idea of the crowd cheering Dolph because they wanted to see Cena lose....well that is true. Why else do you cheer someone? You want to see them win. I think that proves just how much the fans are into the current product and its roster. It could have been Orton in there and they still would have cheered Ziggler. Cena in the match had nothing to do it.


I had that same conversation in the chatbox one night. If people simply wanted Cena to lose then you'd only hear Cena sucks chants. Not a major chant or approval for the opponent. It's to say if it was Kofi Kingston vs Sin Cara for the intercontinental championship. I'd boo the hell out of Cara, but I sure as hell wouldn't be rooting for Kingston. _(although I'd probably crap on the match to really show my disapproval, haha)_


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> This, this and this.
> 
> The crowd was just into the entire event, not just that one match. Besides, who doesn't like Dolph? Whether it's Orton, Sheamus or Cena the guy always gets a tremendous reaction from the crowd.
> 
> And the whole idea of the crowd cheering Dolph because they wanted to see Cena lose....well that is true. Why else do you cheer someone? You want to see them win. I think that proves just how much the fans are into the current product and its roster. It could have been Orton in there and they still would have cheered Ziggler. Cena in the match had nothing to do it.


We were talking about the big fight feel, so naturally we were talking about the main event. And Vince has wanted the fans to cheer for Cena for years now. All of them. And not all of them do, obviously. Actually, alot of them don't these days. Alot of them have done the exact opposite of what Vince's original intention was for Cena, which was for everyone to love him.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> You said watch a show from back in the day - aka those two eras - and compared them to now. It's impossible to do that b/c they are much different times. It's an obvious notion that the crowds were hotter back then. Which prompted me to say it's not a surprise b/c the biz was hotter in general around the time. Wrestling is in that time where it isn't "cool" atm. It's gonna suffer. Now the product isn't that grand, but it's got it's high points. Enough to make the crowd still want to react.
> 
> 
> 
> I had that same conversation in the chatbox one night. If people simply wanted Cena to lose then you'd only hear Cena sucks chants. Not a major chant or approval for the opponent. It's to say if it was Kofi Kingston vs Sin Cara for the intercontinental championship. I'd boo the hell out of Cara, but I sure as hell wouldn't be rooting for Kingston. _(although I'd probably crap on the match to really show my disapproval, haha)_


Ah. I think you can compare the two shows. They are very different, but any one person can say about either show "I like this one" and "I don't like this one." They're both 2 hour (I'll give the current product the benefeit of the doubt and count it as when it was a 2 hour show not all that long ago) wrestling shows on Cable TV. Not a big deal, but just my opinion on that.

EDIT- Well said, Clique.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena's hate has died down a lot since when it originally started though. It depends on the crowd on how hated he is nowadays. Some want his blood and some do the chant but it isn't anything major. It's part of Cena's atmosphere.

Only face I can think of in that position that never got booed while on top, unless a heel, was Austin. Undertaker too. But, we know Austin was in the higher area.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Did Flair also get booed as a face?


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Clique said:


> I can't jump on board with this statement. At least not for WWE in 2012. Or in the last let's say three years. I know for a fact I will never go back and watch weekly episodes of Raw and Smackdown from 2010-2012 for sure like I've re-watched WWF & WCW from 1996 coming up to WWF 1999 on WWE Classics On Demand. Sure I grew up with that era, but what about 1988 NWA World Championship Wrestling? Easily watchable with compelling characters and angles, and I can appreciate looking into that particular product. Get emotionally invested in that but I can't for WWE these days other than WrestleMania season.
> 
> The WWE isn't lacking in good-great in-ring talent, but I want character progression in the main angles of the show that lead up to matches that feel grand on an importance & emotional level. Comparatively speaking, Punk/Jericho WM match is a better wrestling match than let's say Savage/Warrior WM match but the scale the latter match was on because of the characters and the delivery put it on an almost astronomical level. I'll give credit to Punk/Jericho for having a great match. I was at ringside to witness it but that's not one of those matches that "legends are made of." It's just not. I'm not trying to slight that match but WWE product as a whole has lost a bit of its skill for creating the larger than life effect for the fan. And this is not just coming from a guy who just became an adult wrestling fan a few years ago because I know people who were adults in the 80s that notice the lack of characters and the lack of interest to draw them into the product on a weekly basis.
> 
> WWE for the most part still knows how to hype up a WrestleMania and that's fine but* I also want the life in the creative writers to produce more consistently good TV.* I still enjoy watching WWE but it just is not the same. It comes in individual moments and matches now opposed to looking forward to the entire product. Even the cheese because there will always be cheese in wrestling. Wrestling should be fun, emotional, intense and even a bit wacky at times.


And herein lies the problem. The televised product is certainly lacking but I've seen some killer PPVs from the same era 2010-2012 (not so much 2010). I'm not sure they are worth $50 but the ones I bothered to get on DVD have been really dope PPVs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No. But I was only doing WWF/WWE. Flair was on top in a different time for a majority.

Oh, wait. Unless you count Flair's title reign in 1999. He was technically a face when he beat Hogan for it, but fans were pretty PISSED at him and he turned heel immediately following


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

As a babyface in his prime the closest or most he received was probably a mixed reaction when he went against Sting at Starrcade '89 as they both were faces. However, Flair would get cheered from time to time as a heel. He got cheers over Steamboat at Chi-town Rumble '89.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> No. But I was only doing WWF/WWE. Flair was on top in a different time for a majority.
> 
> Oh, wait. Unless you count Flair's title reign in 1999. He was technically a face when he beat Hogan for it, but fans were pretty PISSED at him and he turned heel immediately following


Well then. I guess Cena really is the only wrestler in history to garner such a reaction from the crowd.

I used to be on the Cena hating bandwagon- FOR ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON. It didn't last long though. It started in '09 and ended by mid 2010. That's when I stopped sipping the TNA Kool Aid (I used to be TNA's biggest supporter/defender when I first joined). I remember it as if it were yesterday. I just, for the hell of it, decided to watch RAW and it was the RAW where Cena assembled the team for the SS match against NEXUS. Just like I became a fan of Cena's, again. 2006 was Cena at his best for me. That's when I first started to watch wrestling after taking a 3 year break. I was 11  But yeah 06-07 Cena kicked ass!

Anyway, I started looking at a bunch of Cena matches and the match that made me go "Cena is the best damn psychologist in the industry today" was his match with Umaga. 

I just want to say one more thing and I know the person who I want to say it to will never hear me say it but still. FUCK YOU TNA!!! Motherfucker made me miss Nexus attack and a whole bunch of other awesome shit especially during their pathetic attempt at recreating the MNW. Fuck, I could never forgive myself for missing the build to Cena/Batista and more importantly Taker/HBK. Stay off that TNA Kool Aid. It does shit to you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> As a babyface in his prime the closest or most he received was probably a mixed reaction when he went against Sting at Starrcade '89 as they both were faces. However, Flair would get cheered from time to time as a heel. He got cheers over Steamboat at Chi-town Rumble '89.


Oh yeah, he's been plenty over with the crowd as a heel. Lots of Four Horseman matches have the crowds actually split. Even with the incredibly over babyfaces. Proof that no matter how good a face can be, a heel can still garner favor with some fans. It differs.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Merry Christmas guys. 

Just rewatched the six man TLC again with my dad and did a little write up.

TLC 2012: Ryback, Daniel Bryan & Kane vs The Shield

A couple days before, I had said that I wanted this match to go down like Resilience vs No Remorse Corp/Matt Sydal from Death Before Dishonor V in ROH. And that's exactly what I got...only better. I'll start off with the weapons. We had a couple new table spots, Ambrose using chairs like a beast, some pretty cool bumps with the ladder and no ridiculous climbing for no reason. I know a fear was that there'd be tons of climbing for no reason, but all we had was the big bump at the end and that made sense. What I loved most about this match though was the comeback phases. First Kane got a big one, Ryback had a few and then the Bryan one where he locks in the No! Lock on everyone is fucking great. The crowd was big into it as well. But every time it looked like the good guys were out of it, someone would make the save for them. Also loved the camera work in this match. Emphasizing Bryan trying to crawl to help Ryback down at the stage and then Ryback making his way back to the ring but too late. Only complaint with this match is that Kane seemed to be down kinda long. Same with Ryback after the announce table spot. But that barely hurts this for me. ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was better than the Death Before Dishonor V Night Two match. :mark:

Good review. I share the same thoughts. Such a blast of a match. The most fun I've had with a WWE match all year since July with Punker vs Danielson.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If that match turns out better than NRC/Resilience, I'll shit myself. BOLD statement, Clark!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> Well then. I guess Cena really is the only wrestler in history to garner such a reaction from the crowd.


Part of that is because some times when babyfaces are constantly boo'd like that the company turns them heel to progress with the reactions the fans have of the character at that point. Curt Hennig in the late 80s (AWA), or Bret, Shawn and Rocky Maivia's turns in 97, etc. WWE decided to run with what they were going for with Cena and withstood the reactions from a segment of their audience. It is a unique dynamic for Cena at this point as Hayley pointed out. His connection or relationship with the WWE Universe a part of his character now in a way.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> It was better than the Death Before Dishonor V Night Two match. :mark:
> 
> Good review. I share the same thoughts. Such a blast of a match. The most fun I've had with a WWE match all year since July with Punker vs Danielson.


As much of an ERICK STEVENS mark as I was then, I completely agree. Aries' selling in that match owned hard though.

I need to give the SD MITB and Punk/Bryan a watch from that show. I saw it when it happened but I've yet to give either a second watch since I accidentally deleted it off the DVR.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If that match turns out better than NRC/Resilience, I'll shit myself. BOLD statement, Clark!


I seconded it. Which means he's correct. :side:

It had the advantage of not feeling a bit too long. Which is the only flaw I saw from the NRC/Resilience street fight.



Clique said:


> Part of that is because some times when babyfaces are constantly boo'd like that the company turns them heel to progress with the reactions the fans have of the character at that point. Curt Hennig in the late 80s (AWA), Bret in 97, Shawn in 97, Rocky Maivia in 98, etc. WWE decided to run with what they were going for with Cena and withstood the reactions from a segment of their audience. It is a unique dynamic for Cena at this point as Hayley pointed out. His connection or relationship with the WWE Universe a part of his character now in a way.


Hogan in late '95 - early '96 is usually my first example when I bring up that point. But Bret & Rock were brilliant moves. They were hated so they went heel and refreshed/revamped their character completely. I don't think Cena needs it as much as the other did, but a heel turn would be awesome just b/c of how surreal it would be to see main event Cena a heel.



Brye said:


> As much of an ERICK STEVENS mark as I was then, I completely agree. Aries' selling in that match owned hard though.
> 
> I need to give the SD MITB and Punk/Bryan a watch from that show. I saw it when it happened but I've yet to give either a second watch since I accidentally deleted it off the DVR.


STEVENS~! Yeah, it's an awesome mess of a match. (mess is a compliment..haha) I loved the NRC. Teaming them up with Sydal aka BOURNE was boss. Delirious is the man too. I just have to point out, considering the thread, that everyone needs to watch it just to see Evan Bourne compete in a street fight haha. Certainly isn't something he's done very much. Only that match and Steel Cage Warfare back in 2005, tbhayley.

Go for it. I bought MITB asap when it was released. Such a fun show. I'm a mark of that PPV franchise. It always delivers.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HOW HAS THIS THREAD BEEN DEAD FOR OVER 8 HOURS?

Got the Raw 100 DVD for Christmas.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Apparently we got Christmas lovers here lol. 

And you guys are so frigging lucky getting wrestling DVDs as presents. I wish I could get it in the stores where I'm from.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Where are you from? 

And I'm laying low this Christmas. Dad is working, my relatives are sort of scattered this year and there's basketball on so I'll probably just be on here all day. :side:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm very a tiny, little island in The Caribbean called Trinidad. 

The last time people talked about wrestling down here was 1990 when WWC used to run some very god-awful shows. But the motherfuckers would bleed a lot and it got people going. Guys like Abdullah The Butcher would come and just blade the fuck out of each other. But I wasn't even born back then lol. 

When I was a kid we used to have an actual WWE merchandise store in the mall but it didn't last long. Bsck then I got action figures, VHS, every goddamn thing. I'll say it closed down in about '99, probably 2000. Didn't last very long at all. Again low demand.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Damn man, that's a shame.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Christmas time is here !

Christmas is my day to enjoy some time with family... By locking myself in my room and playing WWE 13 all day. Seriously, I usually get the new WWE game for Christmas and I've already been playing it for four hours now, might attempt to watch one of my twenty something new DVDs but I don't think that's gonna happen because I'm gonna try to beat this entire Attitude Era mode today...

Or I'ma switch to Madden 13


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

Great little blu ray Christmas haul:

CM Punk: Best in the World
Raw 100
Attitude Era

Which was on top of the Over the Limit 2011 and Elimination Chamber 2011 blu rays I got on Black Friday and Cyber Monday.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Christmas, coincidentally enough, I got a PS3 Slim today. Really excited because I can now play WWE 13. (and more importantly, *GTA V* when it's out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

A better gift for me than any wrestling DVDs.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

For me:
Wrestlemania 28
Punk: BITW
Michaels: Heartbreak and Triumph
Greatest Cage Matches
Falls Count Anywhere

Also bought Roddy Piper, Best of RAW and Smackdown 2011 and Michaels: My Journey with Christmas money from relatives.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch the unk2 DVD first.

You won't regret it , I promise. Considering watching the RAW 1000 Countdown now for something to do, I fucking <3 Christmas.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Also I have another £10 so if anyone could recommend me a good DVD from the Silvervision site?


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

One of the best Christmas' ever! Got the Attitude Era DVD, the Punk: Best in the World DVD, two extra PS3 controllers, and tickets to this week's Raw in MSG event! Freaking pumped.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wanna throw in the Raw 100 DVD but there's SO MUCH BASKETBALL ON~!


----------



## peep4life (Jun 1, 2005)

Got the Brock, attitude era, and NWO blu rays and the d Bryan dvd...gotta lot of wrestling to watch

Sent from my DROID RAZR using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the History of the WHC doc. Been years since I've seen it. Only an hour long, but its good. Good to hear them talking about the history of wrestling and the origins of the WHC and whatnot, then now wrestling in general went from real shoot matches that would last anywhere from 2 to 6 hours, to being "fake" and being much shorter. Once they get to the WCW days though they skip a lot of things (WWE doc not doing WCW justice? NEVER!) and even do weird shit like make it seem as though Flair left for the WWF with the world title belt and then Ron Simmons was crowd the new world champion by beating Vader immediately afterwards . They go on to mention that the title belt had some questionable champions towards the later stages of WCW, and they show pictures of Jarrett, Arquette, Russo... and fucking SID? SID? Really? SID WAS THE FUCKING MAN YOU BASTARDS. At least they didn't show Steiner. But still. SID.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Armageddon 2005:*

JBL vs Matt Hardy - *1/2
- Very boring and about as stupid as a "feud" can get. JBL interrupts a Matt interview the week before and for that, they start feuding. As expected, Matt gets jobbed out with what is pretty much a clean loss. I really don't count the exposed turnbuckle as anything.

MNM vs Mexicools - **3/4
- Pretty pointless to take the tag titles off MNM as it took away the only story to this match. But for what it is, I enjoyed it as a purely fun tag team contest with four athletic guys doing their thing. Doesn't go on for too long so it's entertaining as long as it lasts. MNM win the match.

Chris Benoit vs Booker T - ***3/4
- After beating Benoit three times in a row, Booker loses the first time in this best of 7 series to give Benoit some momentum and continue the series. This one went for about 20 minutes and is a bit different to their previous matches. Benoit does some leg-work early on which Booker barely sells later on while Booker's wife distracts Benoit as much as possible. Some great nearfalls and the crowd is better here than most of the PPV. After a ref bump, Benoit hits his signatures on Booker followed by the Crossface for the victory. There's also a little Eddie tribute with the Three Amigos. Also I've seen him use the Belly to Belly Overhead quite a bit in his Booker matches around this period. Very good match although not as good as No Way Out 06.

Bobby Lashley vs William Regal & Paul Burchill - **
- I like Burchill's offense but this was pretty much a squash match. Bobby dominates with ease and wins.

Kid Kash vs Juventud - **1/2
- An okay cruiserweight match but despite their efforts, it feels a bit uninteresting and some assholes in the crowd try their best to ruin it with "Boring" chants. Some cool spots so it's not bad.

Kane & Big Show vs Rey Mysterio & Batista - **
- I don't get this at all. Rey and Dave beat MNM for the tag titles on Smackdown before the PPV and the sole purpose was to make this a "tag champs vs tag champs" match. Raw finally get their upper-hand by winning an interpromotional match here. Pretty short and nothing special, although the finish was cool and I liked the spot where Rey quickly gave Kane a dropkick after he sat up.

The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - ****1/2
- After having feuded nearly the entire year, this comes to an end inside Hell in a Cell. Lots of memorable moments and great matches throughout and this is the perfect ending to this classic battle. I admit that it got a bit silly towards the end with all the over-the-top mind games but it is what it is with the Undertaker. Also Orton's hair looks goofy as fuck and his promo the week before was funny to listen to. For 30 minutes, they put it all on the line and there's lots of excellent back and forth action both inside and outside the ring although they never exit the cell. Everyone bleeds from the wrestlers to Bob Orton to even the referee. As I said, 30 minutes and I never feel any rush to see the match end. Just entertaining throughout and the finish is also great with Orton doing the Tombstone himself then Taker takes control and ends both Ortons with a Tombstone each.

*Overall:* *** out of ***** (A decent PPV but only 2 out of the matches are really worth a watch. The US Title and HIAC ones. But they are VERY good and one is a classic. And outside of the ring action, there's a shitty Boogeyman segment with the FBI but a funny segment involving Tim White and Josh Matthews where the former "offs himself" by a shotgun bullet. I have no idea what this was about but I've found every one of them segments funny. From Josh's bad acting to the over the top suicide attempts that somehow go unsuccessful.)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

My WWE '13 broke  Xbox 360 freaking sucks. It's not the first time a disc has fell out while the tray is closing. It was, however, the first time a game actually broke. Well it didn't break, it fell, wasn't reading because it got a tiny, tiny, tiny piece chipped off at the edge then I got pissed and flung it on the floor and then it broke lol. I was really enjoying it as well. I was in the BOD storyline. Supposed to be getting a new one sometime this week. Btw, this broke 2 weeks ago.

Anyway, I watched the AE DVD today. It was meh. Didn't really care much for it. I mean it was alright to educate those who don't know but overall if you didn't see it, you're not missing out on much. Not their best work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You guys suck. I need a parent that I don't have to CONVINCE to buy me wrestling. I'll be lucky if I get something in the form of rasslin this year. _(things are offbeat, my gifts won't come till tomorrow.)_


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

@Choketodeath
About that match JBL/Hardy... I'm not a big fan of backstage dirtsheets but i remember that this "squash" happened as a punishement to Hardy because he fucked up during undertaker reurns ( survivor series 2005 epic beard). He was supposed to take the tombstone and left the ring. Regal took the tombstone instead. 
Maybe it's bullshit, but that would explain that stupid match after the awesome feud Hardy/edge.

Btw thanks for the review. I am probably going to watch that Hiac match again now!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, do it. Undertaker vs Orton HIAC rules. One of my personal favorites, too. 

Taker's chair shot to Orton to commence the BLOOD is the tops. Orton's selling of it like he just got shot in the head with a metal paintball is up there with one of my favorite sells. PUTTIN' IT OVER THE TOP.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

_*WWF Wrestlemania X-Seven - WWF World Heavyweight Title: The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin*_

This right here is why i love WRESTLING. The reaction Austin gets here is absolutely insane, and they should have just called off the heel turn based on this reaction alone, or at least delay it until they were out of Texas. The Rock gets booed out of the building, and the crazy thing is it only got worse for him a year later in Toronto. I think what's most impressive about the match to me was it never slowed down. Neither guy stopped. It was full of action with memorable moments happening all the time. There wasn't a point in the match where you could say it was boring or slow. It didn't get boring ever. It continued to flow from the minute the bell rang until the match was over. I thought each guy was phenomenal, which is no surprise when you're talking about guys that are the caliber of Austin and Rock. I don't know if Rock was ever better than his performance here. His chemistry with Austin was always amazing. They had several good matches before this, no doubt. It's just that this one went up another level. His bumping was phenomenal and the heart he showed in kicking out after all the big moves made him a tougher guy in the eyes of the fans. He took a beating, yet he kept on coming. The work Austin did here was the real story. He was, simply put, a machine. There was nothing flawed in his performance. The crowd was cheering him, but he wrestled as aggressively and as viciously as the best heels of any generation. The facial expressions he used when he couldn't pin were great. I loved how he sold the Rock's late kick out by yelling "Shit!" repeatedly because he was frustrated that he couldn't put him away. You could look in his eyes to see the emotion. And the story of Austin drifting into his new paranoid heel persona was top notch. Even with the overbooked finish this was still a flat-out awesome battle with non-stop action and drama and some great stuff from both guys. ***** Best WrestleMania main event ever. 

Post-match, VINCE AND AUSTIN FUCKING SHAKE HANDS AND DRINK TOGETHER! JR loses it on commentary in an awesome soundbite, and Heyman calmly says that Austin sold his soul to Satan himself for the WWF Title, and brings up Austin saying "I need to beat you, Rock. I need it more than anything in the world. More than you could ever know." Austin has finally given in, 3 years after the original offer of doing things the easy way or the hard way.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

the frenchise said:


> @Choketodeath
> About that match JBL/Hardy... I'm not a big fan of backstage dirtsheets but i remember that this "squash" happened as a punishement to Hardy because he fucked up during undertaker reurns ( survivor series 2005 epic beard). He was supposed to take the tombstone and left the ring. Regal took the tombstone instead.
> Maybe it's bullshit, but that would explain that stupid match after the awesome feud Hardy/edge.
> 
> Btw thanks for the review. I am probably going to watch that Hiac match again now!


Ah, wouldn't have noticed a difference since Matt Hardy was being jobbed out anyways before it. The one backstage story from that time I am aware of is the Taker/Bob Orton hepatitis C drama. Glad neither Taker nor Randy were affected by Bob's blood. While we're on the topic of Taker's returns, how many has he had? Just from watching 2003-2005, I've lost count of how many times he went absent or was written out and returned later.

First it was the Big Show chokeslam down the stage from late 02, then the FBI assault during his match with Cena after WM, then Kane burying him alive then after Judgment Day 04, he was gone until the JBL feud after which he was around most of the time until after WM21 where he went absent until June after that Orton "killed" him at least twice with the burning casket writing him off until SVS.

And Orton's selling is fucking AWESOME!


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit WrestleMania 17​*★★1/2​*Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - 30 Minute Ultimate Submission Match - Backlash 2001​*★★★3/4

_*Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - 2 Out Of 3 Falls - Judgment Day 2001*_
★★★★

*Kurt Angle VS. Chris Benoit Cage Match RAW 2001*
★★★3/4​
*Unforgiven 2002 - Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit​*★★★1/2​
*Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003​*★★★★1/2​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Wrestlemania 17 - **
Backlash 2001 - ***
Judgement Day 2001 - *** 
Raw Cage Match - ** 3/4
Unforgiven 2002 - *** 1/4
Royal Rumble 2003 - **** 1/2

Consistent, but often overrated, series. I much prefer the Jericho/Benoit series, tbh, despite the RR 03 match being the second WWE MOTY, behind Lesnar/Show JD.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah I have to agree their series is overrated. Although they did produce a classic at RR 03 they never really reach the heights you expect.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TIM WHITE.

Still haven't watched a single DVD that I got for Christmas, really have no idea where to start unfortunately.... Might as well rewatch Trips-Lesnar and see is it as awesome as I once thought it was, and watch Christian-Cody from NWO for DA LOLZ

HAPPY BOXING DAY


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Benoit/Angle series:

Wrestlemania 17 - ***
Backlash 2001 - ***1/4
Judgement Day 2001 - ***1/4
Raw Cage Match - *1/2
Unforgiven 2002 - ***1/2
Royal Rumble 2003 - ****

It's all generally entertaining stuff other than the cage match which I don't care for. I'm a little surprised they didn't have a singles match at any point from '03 to '06.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They had another singles match shortly after RR 03 but nothing big or memorable.

Wrestlemania X7 - ***1/4
Backlash 01 - ****
Judgment Day 01 - ***
Raw Cage 01 - ***1/2
Unforgiven 02 - Need to rewatch
Royal Rumble 03 - *****

Also finally got around to watching the first ever HIAC match. ****1/2 for it. Match was rather basic for the most part until the end which was AWESOME. lol @ HBK assaulting the cameraman.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Was expecting BORK LAZER and Game of Thrones season 1 DVD's yesterday. Ended up with DA RAWK and 2 Game of Thrones Season 1 DVD's instead. Parents and friend got mixed up. I love Game of Thrones and all but 2 sets is a bit fucking much lol. I'm about to go on SilverVison and do some shopping right now with my gift money. I haven't looked yet but hopefully their Xmas sale is a good one.

EDIT - Well fuck. SV sale isn't worth a damn. Rock/Cena is there for 10 quid. Thinking about that one. I guess I'll wait a week to see what these new FreeMantle people put up on their site and how much they're going to charge etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SV christmas sale was awesome for me . WM 28, RR 2012 and ER 2012 Bluray for £21. ER was awesome, WM was the second best PPV for me, and while RR wasn't great, I own every one of them except for 2012 so I needed it for my collection. And that price for blurays = bargain .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I already have Mania 28 blu-ray, I wouldn't pay £1 for that piece of shit Rumble and Brock/Cena from ER is on Brock's set which I'm going to get so I don't really need to have that PPV. The falls count anywhere set could be a buy. I wish they put best of Raw/SD 11 on sale. I would have bought that one.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Angle:

Mania 17: Kinda boring.
Backlash 01: Liked it.
Insurrextion 01: Liked it.
Judgment Day 01: Liked the first two falls. The ladder match fall was terrible.
Cage: Really, really, really awful.
Unforgiven 02: Good.
Rumble 03: Really good.

I actually kinda like most of the matches, but yeah, overrated series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania 17 Benoit/Angle needs some love. ****.

Unforgiven 2002 OWNS. 100% love that match. Rumble '03 gets the full 5 from me. I'll realize the over the top-ness _(bad wording)_ of Angle for the majority of his career, but that match was done perfectly for me. It has an aura about it. I can understand some not giving it the full 5, but it works for me.

I like their cage match too despite it being nothing more than a spotty spectacle.

Speaking of GREAT Angle matches, I'm certainly wondering if there is a match that ends in DQ that I can give a perfect ranking to. vs Austin from Summerslam 2001 really, really has me tempted. It's my favorite Angle match ever so that's probably why I bring it up. Dammit, that's a brilliant bout. I'll gladly take that over WrestleMania 17's overrated main event.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

No WWE sales on amazon, play or hmv dot coms .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The DQ ending makes complete sense in Austin/Angle. Austin's a fucking psycho who gets furious he can't keep Angle down and nails referees who won;t DQ him, until the Alliance referee DQ'es him so he can keep the title. THE ALLIANCE.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Mankind/HBK is another match that ends in a DQ that can get the full 5, though I haven't seen it in a long time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah but the DQ in that was a complete dogshit idea.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The DQ ending makes complete sense in Austin/Angle. Austin's a fucking psycho who gets furious he can't keep Angle down and nails referees who won;t DQ him, until the Alliance referee DQ'es him so he can keep the title. THE ALLIANCE.


Which is why I'm so certain I should put the snowflake to it. If I'm open to love a match like Angle/Benoit from the Rumble, then a match that's BETTER should be "ranked" on the same level. All semantics and the perception of what people see when I pimp the matches. I'll <3 Summerslam '01 more than anything Kurt has done. His matches vs Taker come damn close. Oh, hey there's another one. vs Taker on Smackdown in 2003. Random BROCK interference nearly mares a perfect match.



Alim said:


> Mankind/HBK is another match that ends in a DQ that can get the full 5, though I haven't seen it in a long time.


Yep. Although, ****3/4 works considering the finish was royally botched. Excellent match nonetheless.

Eddie/JBL Judgment Day is the other one in this grouping. FUCK that match has to be a top 10 all time favorite for me. EDDIE.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

*Summerslam 2007*

*Kane vs Finlay* (10 min) : A Brawl. Kane is dominating this and Finlay is surviving with almost no offense. Some Hornswoggle and Shillelagh but Kane wins this quite quickly. Good selling from Kane (Ribs) **

*Umaga vs Kennedy vs Carlito IC title *(10 min) : No Babyface. Umaga is playing the face for the match. One monster vs 2 cowards. It works but it's not really exciting. Carlito has zero offense, Kennedy has his moments but it's all about Umaga. This guy was good i miss him. Umaga destroys them easily. ** 1/2

*Rey (return) vs Chavo* (12 min) : It is a knee story. Chavo is aiming the knee with some good submission moves but Rey is faster and has some good flying offenses. Good lucha sequences, good 619 sequences. There is no suspense but the match is good. ***

*Diva battle royal*: skipped

*Morrison vs Cm Punk ECW title *(7 min) : A lot of moves. Some good ones. Good selling from both men (especially Morrison). But the match makes no sense. It's bad. I can't explain, it's bad (like that Punk's Moonsault) . **

*HHH (return) vs King Booker* (8 min) : The match starts as a brawl and HHH has the advantage, he throws Booker t out of the ring many times. It's all about the Game but Booker T lands some moves thanks to Sharmell's despicable interferences. Finally the game hits the spinebuster...without destroying his knee!yes! He goes for the pedigree, and we have a nice sequence with good counters that end with a bookend. Booker t goes to the top rope for his infamous sommersault leg drop. HHH avoids it. Pedigree time.. Avoided again! Booker tries a roundhouse kick but HHH ducks and hits the pedigree for the win. ** 3/4 

*Khali vs Batista WHC match* (7 min) : Khali dominates the entire match, the only thing that batista does is one spinebuster... Batista is down and with no reason khali hits him with a chair: DQ. *

*Cena vs Orton WWE title match* (20 min) : Nice video package. The match is starting with headlocks from both men but Orton is taking the advantage quite quickly. He keeps Cena down with multiple inverted chinlocks and some stompings. Cena doesn't manage to brawl, Orton is constantly keeping him down. Even when Cena hits a big move ( top rope legdrop, 5 knuckle shuffle), Orton manages to go back to a dominant position with good moves from his repertoire avoiding 2 FU attempts in the process. Orton is going to punt Cena... avoided! STFU time! Orton crawls to the ropes and manages to break the hold. Cena is frustrated but he doesn't have the time to think about it because he is hit by a Rko in no time. Only a 2 count. Orton is picking Cena who instantaneously hits the FU for the win. ***


This PPV is quite bad. I rated *** for the main event but i'm quite nice about it because the crowd was okay, JR was awesome and you have a big match feeling. The 2 "return from injury matches" are okay too. They were better the first time, because back then i was missing these guys, so i was excited.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Austin/Angle and Eddie/JBL are probably the greatest matches to end with a DQ. The former was hilarious with Austin beating a bunch of referees and then the last one that comes out counts to two (I think) then stops at three and disqualifies Austin. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I remember watching Summerslam '07 when it aired and coming out of it I said to myself, "wow, I had the most fun watching Kane vs. Finlay..."  Shitty ppv, but I've only seen Rey/Chavo from it since.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Decided to pick up Rock/Cena blu-ray since it was only 10 quid along with Ricky Steamboat set. Going to hold off the WWE purchases for now, apart from Brock which I'll exchange one of my Game of Thrones for lol, until Free Mantle get their site up and running.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Say you won't pay £1 for RR 2012... but pay £10 for one of the worst sets ever made :no:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I mark for Rock. I mark for Cena. I have spare money right now. Yes lol. 

:cena2

:rock4


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just re-watched Edge vs Ric Flair - RAW 2006 - TLC match for the WWE Title and I'd probably give it ****.

Great TV match. The bumps Flair took in that match were pretty crazy considering his age. He took a back body drop to the floor, suplex on the floor, took a huge table bump when Edge jumped from a ladder to the outside onto the table, took a suplex from the top of a ladder. The storytelling was pretty good to. You had Ric Flair in his hometown with his Daughter at ring side, and Edge played the asshole heel to perfection in this match, watching the match you could think maybe Flair could do it one more time, especially when Flair pushed Edge off the ladder through a table, but at the same time, you kinda knew Edge was always going to retain. Was very enjoyable to watch again. Highly recommend it. 

Here's the match for anyone that wants to watch it. This video has only been up for two weeks so I don't know how long it will last...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Summerslam '07
Finlay/Kane - ***1/4
Carlito/Kennedy/Umaga - **1/2
Rey/Chavo - *
Morrison/Punk - **1/4
Trips/Booker - DUD
Khali/Batista - DUD
Orton/Cena - ***1/4

I fucking HATE that show. :lmao

And Edge/Flair TLC is ****1/4 for me. (Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

^ Nice. What is your rating on the first ever MITB match? I re-watched that match after, and I'd probably give it the same rating. Idk. The caliber of talent in that match was just great, Edge, Christian, Jericho, Benoit, Shelton, Kane. Those were the days...


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Flair was on fire in late 05/early 06. I'd say it was his best 6 or so month stretch in the WWE, ever.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> ^ Nice. What is your rating on the first ever MITB match? I re-watched that match after, and I'd probably give it the same rating. Idk. The caliber of talent in that match was just great, Edge, Christian, Jericho, Benoit, Shelton, Kane. Those were the days...


I've got it at ****1/2. So many awesome things about that match from Benoit's selling, Benjamin and his crazy stunts and Kane being dominant.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

forgot hhh/booker had a match at summerslam :lol


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Clark Griswold said:


> I've got it at ****1/2. So many awesome things about that match from Benoit's selling, Benjamin and his crazy stunts and Kane being dominant.


Agreed. I don't usually give rate matches often, so I'm not totally sure on some of my ratings. All that matters though, is I always very much enjoy that match when I watch it. (Y)


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The first 4 MITB matches were awesome. After that they kind of started getting "meh" and once the MITB PPV was introduced I stopped caring. Though I do recall the one Daniel Bryan won being great.

MITB I - ****1/2
MITB II - ****1/4 
MITB III - ****
MITB IV - ****1/4
SD MITB 2011 - ****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MITB I - ****1/2
MITB II - ***3/4
MITB III - ****
MITB IV - ****1/2
MITB V - ***3/4
MITB VI - ***1/2
SD 2010 - ****
Raw 2010 - ***1/2
SD 2011 - ****1/4
Raw 2011 - ***1/2
SD 2012 - ***3/4
Raw 2012 - *

My favorite is IV but I is very close behind.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clark Griswold said:


> Summerslam '07
> Finlay/Kane - ***1/4
> Carlito/Kennedy/Umaga - **1/2
> Rey/Chavo - *
> ...


You hate the show more than me :lol _(except for knowing Kane vs Finlay rules & I hate Punk vs Morrison)_

MITB I ~ ****3/4

The GOAT. It's just about a flawless match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WM 24 and MITB SD 2010 are my fave MITB matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All 3 Smackdown MITB ladder matches are great. This year's was the weakest, but I rate them all at ****. The BEST winners too (sans Punker). Kane, Danielson, & DOLPH? Yes please.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> ^ Nice. What is your rating on the first ever MITB match? I re-watched that match after, and I'd probably give it the same rating. Idk. The caliber of talent in that match was just great, Edge, Christian, Jericho, Benoit, Shelton, Kane. Those were the days...


Such a coincidence that I read this post at the same time as I just got done watching a highlights video for the match. I agree with Brye on the rating. ****1/2 and absolutely awesome stuff throughout the time it lasts.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I rewatched Taker/HHH HIAC for the first time since I saw it live on PPV, and as I assumed, I had a hard time sitting through it. NOT MOTY for me, and I think if alot more people rewatched it, they would think the same thing. I mean, it's still a great match and all, and in my Top 10 of the year for WWE, but I find that I can sit through Bryan/Punk or Shield/Hell No-Ryback with no trouble at all and be entertained the same as if I was watching it live. Taker/HHH HIAC was a more in the moment match then anything, and doesn't have much rewatch value for me. Probably never going to watch that match again unless I'm forced to for whatever reason.

Rating: ****1/4


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, I just rewatched every (I think) Ambrose/Rollins match in FCW and I loved every one of them. I liked how the second and third match for the FCW 15 Championship, they each changed their gameplan a bit since they haven't gotten a fall on each other from their previous enounters and some of the callbacks they used from previous matches. Their fourth encounter was really good too with Ambrose working on Rollins' injured arm and Rollins selling. Their most recent encounter for the FCW Heavyweight Championship I had a newfound appreciation for it for Ambrose's selling of his shoulder that was dislocated from the Regal match and how he was forced to change his offense a bit. I also liked how Ambrose worked on Rollins' leg and how that affected him towards the end of the match. Overall, these two have amazing chemistry and their recent 6 Man TLC Match gives me excitement on what they can do in the WWE. How would you rank their matches?

For me it's:

1. Ambrose/Rollins III: ****1/2
2. Ambrose/Rollins V: ****
3. Ambrose/Rollins I: ***3/4
4. Ambrose/Rollins II: ***1/2
5. Ambrose/Rollins IV: ***1/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've yet to really sit and down and watch the Rollins/Ambrose series. I hardly doubt it could top the Ambrose/Regal matches though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Extreme Rules 2012*

*Falls Count Anywhere
*Randy Orton vs. Kane - *** 1/4

Brodus Clay vs. Dolph Ziggler - **

*Intercontinental Championship - Tables Match*
Big Show (c) vs. Cody Rhodes - **

*World Heavyweight Championship - 2 out of 3 Falls*
Sheamus (c) vs. Daniel Bryan - ****

Ryback vs. 2 Jobbers - SQUASH

*WWE Championship - Chicago Street Fight
*CM Punk (c) vs. Chris Jericho - ****

*Divas Championship
*Nikki Bella (c) vs. Layla - *

*Extreme Rules Match*
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar - **** 1/2


*Overall: 9.25/10

*- Orton/Kane was a great opener that got a lot of time. Really fun match that went all over the building, but I do have my gripes. As it normally is with EVERY form of brawl that Orton's in, he gets all the big spots while his opponent gets none. Orton beat the hell out of him with the chair, got the ddt off the announce table, the superplex, AND the finish. What'd Kane get? A chokeslam. :no: The finish is just goofy too. An RKO on a flat chair is gonna hurt Orton quite a bit you'd think & the way Kane takes them his face doesn't even hit the mat. That was actually the same finish they used from a Street Fight they had on SD last year too. Luckily the two have surprisingly great chemistry so it makes for a good watch if you can ignore those things I pointed out.

- The filler on this show was hit and miss. I had no problem with Clay/Ziggler. Fun stuff all around with some great looking offense, plus the crowd was 90% behind Zig. Ryback can go fuck off and the Divas match was just really out of place.

- Cody vs. Big Show is so much fun. Cody getting destroyed & his comedic selling is hilarious, plus the finish was pretty creative. Throw that in with the postmatch stuff and a funny ass conversation between Book & Cole and it gets a big (Y) from me.

- My comments on the three big matches can all be found in the *2012 MOTYC Thread*. The show as a whole is seriously one of my all time favorite PPVs or shows from any company. There's so much fun & so much variety, plus 3 fucking excellent matches. I can't ask for much more.​


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've yet to really sit and down and watch the Rollins/Ambrose series. I hardly doubt it could top the Ambrose/Regal matches though.


Ambrose/Regal was awesome as well. Regal's arm work, Ambrose's selling, and the story of Ambrose wanting a rematch and Regal's apprehensiveness of him ending his career in between the matches made it that much more important.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

If you guys can track down the series of AMAZING matches between Seth Rollins and Richie Steamboat for the FCW 15 Championship, give those a watch. They are absolutely amazing.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE No Way Out 2004 - WWE Heavyweight Title: Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero*

Tremendous match. This might be the greatest Big Man vs. Little Man match ever. I can seriously say Eddie was on top of his game here. The crowd was super hot for him and he wrestled an amazing match. Lesnar more than held up his end too, reminding me how great he got in such a short period of time. It’s a shame that they never got to do a rematch. I don’t even feel like the Goldberg interference ruined anything because it didn't lead directly to the finish, yet it was booked perfectly to pay off the earlier confrontation in the night and continues a major feud right into WrestleMania. It’s simple thinking ahead booking. ****1/2


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Well, I just rewatched every (I think) Ambrose/Rollins match in FCW and I loved every one of them. I liked how the second and third match for the FCW 15 Championship, they each changed their gameplan a bit since they haven't gotten a fall on each other from their previous enounters and some of the callbacks they used from previous matches. Their fourth encounter was really good too with Ambrose working on Rollins' injured arm and Rollins selling. Their most recent encounter for the FCW Heavyweight Championship I had a newfound appreciation for it for Ambrose's selling of his shoulder that was dislocated from the Regal match and how he was forced to change his offense a bit. I also liked how Ambrose worked on Rollins' leg and how that affected him towards the end of the match. Overall, these two have amazing chemistry and their recent 6 Man TLC Match gives me excitement on what they can do in the WWE. How would you rank their matches?
> 
> For me it's:
> 
> ...


I completely agree. I would probably give Ambrose/Rollins I **** though. With Rollins being a more natural face, I can definitely see him splitting from The Shield first or Reigns and Ambrose turning on him or something which would then HOPEFULLY lead to a great story between Rollins and Ambrose. It's a shame it is too soon but them two deserve a Wrestlemania match to showcase that talent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rollins vs Ambrose I ~ ***1/2
Rollins vs Ambrose II ~ ****
Rollins vs Ambrose III ~ ****1/2

Have to relive the others to slap something next to them.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

*Unforgiven 2007*

*Cm Punk vs Elijah Burke Ecw title* : Not really a good match but it's an okay opener. Good work on Punk's back by Burke with a good selling from the champ. ** 1/2

*MVP/Hardy(c) vs Deuce n Domino wwe tag team title* : The only thing interesting is the fact that Hardy and Mvp are rivals.**

*HHH vs Carlito no DQ only for carlito* : The stipulation is strange but makes the match interesting. Good use of trash cans, ring bell and even dust from carlito. HHH is winning with a lowblow (ref not watching) and a pedigree. Funny. ***

Candice vs beth phoenix : skipped

*Batista vs Rey vs Khali WHC match* : Thank god Rey is in this match. His selling is top notch. The ending sequence is very good. 619 on batista, 619 on Kahli followed by a springboard seated senton for the count. Batista stops the count and powerbombs rey on khali. Final spinebuster on khali and new WHC! ** 1/2

*Kendrick/London vs Cade/murdoch world tag team championship*. That is one hell of a tag bout. Amazing chemistry between these 4 men. London and Kendrick are flying everywhere and the champs are stiffer than ever. A lot of great tag team moves.Crowd is totally dead *** 1/2

*Cena vs Orton wwe title match* : This match is a shame. Nothing happens. *

*Undertaker(return) vs Henry* : The crowd is dead but i don't blame it after the wwe title match that just happened. Very bad match. Henry is not in a good day, and in a terrible shape. taker does nothing special. He wins with the last ride. * 1/2


Wow what a shitty PPV. One of the worst i've seen. I can't believe this is the second time i watch this but i'm in a 2007 mood for the holidays. Best match of the card Cade/murdoch vs Kendrick/london which is a little gem of tag team wrestling... 2 last matches are absolutely atrocious.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't know why you're putting yourself through torture by watching stuff from 2007. That year was truly awful. I laugh whenever people claim that 2007 WASN'T the worst year in WWE history.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK/Cena Mania & Raw
Backlash 4-way
Taker/Batista series
HHH/Orton No Mercy
HBK/Orton

^ reasons why 07 wasn't awful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another reason: Benoit was around for half of it, which automatically makes that better than any period of time post his death.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The bad outweighs the good. A few good matches doesn't make up for the trash in the rest of the year.

Injuries upon injuries to the likes of:
- Edge
- Undertaker
- Triple H
- Rey Mysterio
- Mr. Kennedy
- Shawn Michaels
- Bobby Lashley
- John Cena
And the list goes on and on

More reasons:

- Hornswoggle
- Khali push (I personally was fine with it but people bring this up all the time)
- Death of Chris Benoit (changed the business forever)
- Terrible, terrible excuses for pay-per-views. Summerslam, Unforgiven...
- Rosie/Trump match on Raw
- Wellness Policy violations, lead to many suspensions and even thinner roster

It's funny because the year was off to a pretty decent start, continuing the momentum from a great 2006. The RTWM was good, but post-Wrestlemania... ugh


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

John Cena vs Rob Van Dam WWE Championship ECW One Night Stand 2006 ***1/2 
Kurt Angle vs Randy Orton ECW One Night Stand 2006 ***1/2
Crowd really made these matches fun.


Now watching MVP vs Chris Benoit at Backlash '07, then their Wrestlemania 23 match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I really love Cena/RVD @ ONS, crowd were electric, Joey and Taz were on top form.

Yes, there are some mistakes but what do you expect with RVD in the match?  the chair shot in the corner (when RVD gets a chair wrapped around his head) is so brutal. Just pure FUN.

******


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

2007 is a very bad year indeed. You have one of the worst 5,6 months period in wwe history (from May to October). 

I really like RVD/Cena from ONS2006. It was so brilliant from WWE to propose this main event. It was electric. RVD was on top of the world. I don't remember the wrestling... I remember the t-shirt and Edge spear at the end!


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

The crowd made the match for me. The match was good, don't get me wrong but some of the chants during it, brilliant. Same for the chants directed at Orton.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

(Frenchise) That's what happened when I was going to write my shit review. I was about to type...completely blank thoughts on what happened. I liked the match but all I could remember:

*Shirt
*Crowd
*Certain spots (that I can't even remember now )
*Edge's spear

I'll probably give it another go at a later date.


Morbid curiosity is building up whether or not I should check out Diesel/Mabel at Summerslam '95. Maybe it should continue being just that, morbid curiosity.


I wish I could join in on the conversation with everyone else, but I stopped watching in September or October so I can't comment on what's currently happening. I can't join the MOTY conversation either due to Wrestlemania X-Seven being my last PPV.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Please don't watch Mabel/Diesel.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

(Reindeer) I'm not, it's just curiosity.


Edit: Yeah, the sound is playing but there's no picture. I think that's the higher powers telling me to get the fuck away.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's every bit as bad as your curiosity would have you believe.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Decided to act on my word and check out the rest of the Brainbusters vs Rockers series from '88-'89 especially as Cal took the great effort in uploading their entire series like the trooper he is. Watched a couple from their series (1/23 and 3/18) just over a month ago so will C+P both reviews.



> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Superstars (12/10/88)*
> 
> Perfect way to open the long running feud even if it comes at the expense of an actual match. Anderson trips an unsuspecting Michaels as he's running the ropes before the Busters even enter the ring and it leads to a brawl on the outside which fails to be broken up in time and has the match thrown out. This wasn't Memphis esque short and sweet brawling but it did its job in setting up the return match 8 days later.





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Spectrum (12/18/88)*
> 
> Incredibly fun tag match, largely thanks to the antics of the Busters who were great utilising all the classic traits you want in a STF match. Arn and Blanchard made for great stooging heels and they're both ridiculously entertaining bumpers which always makes the babyface shine period interesting. Great spot where Arn sneaks into the ring to assist Blanchard in double teaming Jannetty only for him to counter and send them both crashing to the mat. Theme of the match revolves around the experience of Arn & Tully as a unit and it factors heavily into the transition spot with Tully drawing Michaels to the floor and suckering him round the ring post where Arn catches him with a lariat.
> 
> ...





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF, Boston Garden (1/13/89)*
> 
> Pretty much a carbon copy of the Spectrum bout, sans Jannetty being the FIP instead of Michaels. That's not to discredit what is another entertaining and great bout between the two teams, but one of the staples of tag team wrestling is relying on a formula and well when you see an abundance of spots repeated here from the last match I could some who are less appreciative to tag team wrestling feeling like this match isn't very good, though I'd definitely consider them wrong.
> 
> Blanchard and Anderson again rule the match with their antics and its a great testament to their skill that the babyface shine period turned out as well as it did. Tbh I'd actually call it the peak of the match due to how entertaining and energetic it was with Arn and Tully being bested at every opportunity. The theme of experience managing to overcome rookie agility is again present in the finish with Arn again intercepting a Michaels suplex by sweeping the leg and holding it down to score the pinfall. Despite much of the FIP segment being largely similar to the Spectrum bout, the crowd were rabid for the hot tag in the closing stretch.





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF, MSG (1/23/89)*
> 
> Oh man, this is the shit right here. Opening babyface stretch is just so much fun with numerous comedy spots at the Brainbusters' expense and a really neat sub story with the Rockers utilising a few tricks the Brainbusters would generally utilise to distract the ref and stop Arn getting tagged into the match. Couple of early standout spots had to be Michaels getting pulled into the Brainbusters' corner and immediately escaping through the ropes to the floor, Blanchard pulling Michaels close to the corner only for Shawn to let go and send Blanchard flying into an unsuspecting Arn on the apron and the brilliant fabled tag team spot where Michaels enters the ring, catches Jannetty as he's double suplexed and brings him onto his feet and allows the Rockers to hit a dual superkick to send the Brainbusters bailing to the floor. Whole extened opening was just incredibly engaging with Arn doing some terrific punch drunk selling off of a Jannetty punch combo, and the sub plot with the Rockers out-thinking the Brainbusters and having their number at every opportunity really helped the flow of the match leading into the transition spot.
> 
> ...





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF, LA Sports Arena (1/29/89)*
> 
> One of the longest matches they'd had up until this point and despite seeing a lot of mirrored spots from their previous matches, the added length both aids and slightly detracts from the match. By that I mean it allows the babyface shine period to tell a really good story with the Rocker having now slowly but surely understood that in order to beat the Busters they'll have to utilise some of their nefarious tricks to isolate one man and beat them at their own game. We therefore see a really extended opening with Arn being continually frustrated by the Rockers' ability to distract the ref long enough to negate any tag Tully makes to him as well as each and every attempt the Busters make to gain control fall flat on their face.
> 
> The downside however is that after such an extended opening packed full with callback spots and a developing story that the Rockers have the number of the Busters, the way they work the finish is very disappointing. The transition spot and FIP segment is taken from their 1st encounter only extended with Michaels eating another beating and some great tag team work by the Busters complimented by great apron work from Jannetty and some beautifully timed hot tag teases. The problem is that whilst in nature I do appreciate quick finishes post hot tag in tag matches, seeing a near 20 minute match by that time end in 2 minutes in rather flat fashion with very little in the way of nearfalls just feels like a very tame way to end one of their longer matches. Its the sort of finish which does work in sub 10 minute affairs but in longer matches feels lacking in creativity and poorly timed. This isn't to take away from the quality of the work prior, but it did leave me longing for a more extended finishing stretch instead of a quick pin. Put the work before the finish and add a finishing stretch akin to Rockers/Orient Express from Royal Rumble '91 and you have a truly special match.





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Superstars (2/18/89)*
> 
> Christ, these two didn't want to wrestle on Superstars did they? :lol . Like the 1st encounter these descends into a fight which leads to the match being thrown out and which serves to illustrate the growing tension between both teams. Not essential viewing by any means but anything to progress the feud is worth something.





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Saturday Night Main Event (3/11/89)*
> 
> A shorter affair this time, going around 11 minutes but my god do they manage to get a lot in. Heenan being included makes for a great freshening up early on with him pulling the ropes leading to Michaels collapsing to the floor, only for Heenan to be ejected moments later when a quick boot to a fallen Michaels catches the eye of the referee. Once again Arn & Tully rule the earth as the comedy bumpers one moment and clinical tag wrestlers the next and their transition spot was a beauty here. They switch up the classic lariat on the floor by having Tully make a sneak tag during an atomic drop with Jannetty unaware and Arn is brilliant as the crouching tiger ready to pounce when Jannetty realises he's the legal man.
> 
> From here they work a standard FIP sequence with the Busters looking smooth and calculating in everything they do as well as being terrific in cutting off the ring and keeping Jannetty isolated throughout the FIP spell. Finishing stretch is frantic as expected and features a great nearfall off of Arn blasting an unsuspecting Michaels before it breaks down into a slugest on the outside and leads to a double countout. I could see the finish being divisive but I was glad to see a finish where the Rockers didn't lose but once again the antics of the Busters proved to be their saving grace in antagonising the Rockers to the point of costing them the victory.





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF, MSG (3/18/89)*
> 
> Man this might be my third favourite after the 1/23 and 3/18 Boston Garden matches from their series. It helps that the middle section of this match really feels like a totally new approach from both teams, rather than being a mere collection of past spots from their series. The opening babyface shine period features more clean wrestling from the Rockers instead of utilising Brainbuster tactics as we've seen prior, but its still ridiculously entertaining all the same. The transition spot is a past spot where Arn catches Michaels mid air and drapes him throat first on the ropes but the bump Michaels takes is spectacular.
> 
> The FIP segment sees the Busters employ a far more varied and vicious attack of Michaels. There's plenty of classic heel tactics to draw the referee out of position and far more structured double team manouevres such as a slingshot into a Tully punch as well as Tully and Arn both separately drawing the referee out of position long enough to hit two offensive shots to Michaels on the floor in succession. The build to the hot tag is as good as you want it to be and I loved the way Michaels virtually collapses into the tag to allow Jannetty the chance to enter the ring. Finishing stretch is excellent with the Rockers having the Busters' number at the most crucial stage and Michaels is able to draw Arn out to the floor and lay him out long enough for a avalance splash to seemingly win them the match..only for Arn to force a DQ by pulling the referee out of the ring! Great heat tactic from Arn and a great way to build to the eventual Rockers win.





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF, Boston Garden (3/18/89)*
> 
> Another sterling effort from both these teams here. Match again features a very similar layout to the 1/23 match with the Rockers controlling the majority of the opening and again showing their intelligence in using Brainbuster tactics to infuriate Blanchard and Anderson and continually prevent them from tagging out to escape the onslaught. Arn has a couple of really comical moments where he begs for a time out as well as nearly tagging in Jannetty by mistake only to bail at the last second and Blanchard's strut after winning the first lockup is just hysterical. Small touch that I really enjoyed came when both the Rockers had figure fours on both the Brainbusters and Arn after being released took the opportunity to rake the eyes of Jannetty who was still getting up from the hold. It didn't set up the control sequence like a similar spot did in the Flair/Arn vs Hogan/Savage tag from Nitro, but I really loved just how aware Arn was to do something like that.
> 
> ...





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Prime Time Wrestling (3/27/89)*
> 
> Sort of a greatest hits match featuring some familiar spots made famous in their prior matches and never really getting the length or pacing to be their best match. Still like every match so far it has great tag team wrestlin in the way of the antics from the Busters as well as the Rockers having the perfect energetic babyface offence to captivate a crowd. The Busters are again more vicious and calculating here in their isolation with Michaels, though truth be told the workover never really goes into the territory that could catapult this match to that next level. In fact there's a couple of irritating cuts to Heenan & Moonson chatting before cutting back to the match that disrupts the rhythm and flow. Blanchard busting out his awe inspiring strut may honestly have been the peak of the match, but that is one damn fine strut. Rockers win by DQ when Blanchard pulls down the ropes to send Michaels crashing to the floor during the finishing stretch. Weak ending though with both teams having Wrestlemania matches I guess they wanted an ending which protected both from having to eat a pin.





> *Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Saturday Night Main Event, 2/3 Falls (11/25/89)*
> 
> Eh, this was fun and nothing more really. I'm not a fan of 2/3 falls matches which go just over 10 minutes since it strips the match of any real pacing or build to something magicial and forces them to run through spots to create the drama in a shortened time. The Busters are in turmoil with Heenan and it sees them lose the 1st fall after an entirely one sided babyface shine period culminating in a neat sequence where Michaels splashes onto Arn & Tully whilst they're holding hands to prevent a Jannetty sunset flip attempt. 2nd fall is incredibly short and merely teases the Busters losing in consecutive falls, only to level the match up with the patented across the rope transition spot. Another grievance I have with these types of matches is that a transition spot like that is now forced to win a fall even though its never been teased as such throughout the series. 3rd fall admittedly does have the frantic pace that makes this series special with the Busters isolating Michaels and giving him a beating in the hopes of securing a victory. The hot tag is timed well after a very nice collision of heads spot that actually came off organically rather than overly setup, and the Rockers win after Michaels recovers on the outside and scores a crossbody from the top onto Arn. Not the match that should have ended their fabulous series, but I guess given it was 8 months after the last encounter you can count it more as a rememberance of the feud rather than a direct continuation.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Xmas Wolf said:


> I really love Cena/RVD @ ONS, crowd were electric, Joey and Taz were on top form.
> 
> Yes, there are some mistakes but what do you expect with RVD in the match?  the chair shot in the corner (when RVD gets a chair wrapped around his head) is so brutal. Just pure FUN.
> 
> ******


You know when I first saw it when I was 11 I thought it was really fun but then I saw it for the first time since. It's a pretty shit match actually. I have a hard time trying to even give the match ***.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 22​*
*BIG TIME!~*​*Kane & Big Show vs. Masters & Carlito​*

_Wasn't expecting much out of this . Seemed a strange way to start the show especially with this hot Chicago crowd. Carlito hits his back breaker and then just sits up a minute later._
★1/2​

*Matt Hardy vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Finley vs. RVD vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Ric Flair​*
_Some really sweet spots in this like the Benjamin dive to the outside and a GOD DAMN SUPERPLEX on Flair :lol The main story in the match is can Ric Flair be the man again. Flair is the standout here really selling the leg injury well to a point you think its legit. Crowd was way into RVD and Flair, thank god Lashley didn't win. Seemed a bit short compared to usual MITB , still good for what it was._

★★★1/2​*JBL vs. Benoit​*]
_JBL sure doesn't look in the best of shape here. Despite this he still mamages to play his heel role well . Hiding behind Jillian and mocking Eddie Guerrero minutes after an emotional induction into the Hall Of Fame, I didn't think it was necessary though and just screams tastelessness. I suppose it would have been alright if Benoit had won but he didn't.​_
★★​
*Edge vs. Mick Foley​*
_Really vicous shots to the head of Foley then a really ingenious spot with Foley having barbed wire on his body in anticipation of the Edge's spear. Foley plays a great ragdoll for Edge and makes him seem more powerful then a person of his size should be. Styles is a great addition to the match on commentary with King only contributing OMG! and LOOK AT LITA. Edge takes his fair share of damage and really shows his vicousness and toughness making him earn the name Rated R.Awesome ending as well.
★★★★​_
*Booker T vs. The Boogeyman​*
_Ain't nobody got time for this._
*DUD*​
*Trish Stratus vs. Mickie James​*_This was way above your typical divas match for one it had a decent story going into it around James' obsession with Trish. Some good character work fits in well with some okay action . Chicago was way into James and without the botched finish would have been one of the better women's matches I've seen in the WWE.
​_★★★

*The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry*​_This just wasn't very good outside of seeing taker fly through the ropes again . I mean compared with what Taker achieves at following Wrestlemania is really is a waste. Casket matches in general are just stupid. This could have been a good slugfest between two heavyweights without the unnecessary gimmick._
★★​
*Shawn Micheals vs. Vince McMahon​*_This was decent but I felt it was too long but its always good to see McMahon take a beating and JR is gold on commentary._
★★3/4

*Kurt Angle vs. Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio*​_This was so fast paced but short at the same time. If this wasn't the title match it would have made a fantastic opener for any show.Didn't think it was well booked though with a Mysterio tapping behind the refs back typically a heel thing to do as they do the same thing with Orton later in the match. Speaking of Orton that dude can sell . Sad to see Mysterio getting boo'ed by the crowd for his win . Smarks gonna smark._

★★★​
*John Cena vs HHH*
_HHH channels Game of Thrones for his entrance as he comes up on the iron throne. And we get to see Punk open for Cena ( nice to know nothing ever changes :lol).This had a big fight feel and an atmosphere worthy of a Wrestlemania main event.On the match I felt it told a decent story but some of the action was quite lack luster , particularly 5 minutes were Trips is controlling and I'm just not feeling it. Sometime less is more. Finish was cool with Trips keeping the hand up but tapping any way._

★★★3/4​
Not a bad WM but the potential was there for an all time great one. Some wrestlers just felt wasted on this show Benoit , Micheals and Undertaker being the main culprits. Still probably in the top half of WMs.

*Big Time!~*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally got done with 2005 and as I said, a top 50 best matches list would be on the way. I may need to rewatch some of these but I'm going to rush the list first and then I'll do a in-depth review of the whole year another time, perhaps tomorrow.

*Top 50 Matches of 2005:*

50. Hulk Hogan vs Shawn Michaels - *SummerSlam* - ★★★½
49. John Cena vs Kurt Angle - *No Way Out* - ★★★½
48. Rey Mysterio vs JBL - *Smackdown 7/4/2005* - ★★★½
47. Chris Benoit vs Triple H - *Raw 5/2/2005* - ★★★½
46. JBL vs Rey Mysterio - *No Mercy* - ★★★½
45. Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Submission Match) - *Raw 7/2/2005* - ★★★½
44. Booker T vs Chris Benoit - *Smackdown 21/10/2005* - ★★★½
43. John Cena, Big Show, Shawn Michaels & Matt Hardy vs Kurt Angle, Edge, Snitsky & Chris Masters - *Raw 19/9/2005* - ★★★¾
42. JBL vs Chris Benoit - *Smackdown 11/11/2005* - ★★★¾
41. Kurt Angle vs Ric Flair - *Raw 27/6/2005* - ★★★¾
40. Chris Benoit vs Booker T vs Orlando Jordan vs Christian - *No Mercy* - ★★★¾
39. Randy Orton vs Christian - *Raw 14/2/2005* - ★★★¾
38. John Cena vs Chris Jericho (You're Fired!) - *Raw 22/8/2005* - ★★★¾
37. Shawn Michaels vs Edge (Street Fight) - *Raw 28/2/2005* - ★★★¾
36. JBL vs The Undertaker (No Disqualification) - *Smackdown 16/6/2005* - ★★★¾
35. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - *Smackdown 30/12/2005* - ★★★¾
34. Chris Benoit vs Booker T - *Armageddon* - ★★★¾
33. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - *Smackdown 1/9/2005* - ★★★¾
32. Edge vs Chris Benoit (Last Man Standing) - *Backlash* - ★★★¾
31. The Royal Rumble Match - *Royal Rumble* - ★★★¾
30. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - *Vengeance* - ★★★¾
29. Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho - *Backlash* - ★★★★
28. Christian vs Chris Benoit - *Raw 11/4/2005* - ★★★★
27. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - *Taboo Tuesday* - ★★★★
26. Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio - *Smackdown 10/2/2005* - ★★★★
25. Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka - *One Night Stand* - ★★★★
24. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - *Smackdown 16/9/2005* - ★★★★
23. John Cena vs Christian vs Chris Jericho - *Vengeance* - ★★★★
22. Chris Benoit vs Edge - *Raw 4/4/2005* - ★★★★
21. JBL vs The Undertaker - *Smackdown 28/7/2005* - ★★★★
20. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - *Smackdown 18/8/2005* - ★★★★
19. Team Smackdown (JBL, Rey Mysterio, Orton, Bobby Lashley, Batista) vs Team Raw (Shawn Michaels, Chris Masters, Carlito, Big Show, Kane) - *Survivor Series* - ★★★★
18. Randy Orton & Bob Orton Jr. vs The Undertaker (Casket Match) - *No Mercy* - ★★★★
17. Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero - *Smackdown 23/6/2005* - ★★★★
16. Chris Benoit vs William Regal - *Velocity 16/7/2005* - ★★★★
15. John Cena vs Chris Jericho - *SummerSlam* - ★★★★
14. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - *Judgment Day* - ★★★★
13. Randy Orton vs The Undertaker - *SummerSlam* - ★★★★¼
12. Triple H vs Chris Benoit (Pick Your Poison) - *Raw 14/3/2005* - ★★★★¼
11. Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels - *Wrestlemania 21* - ★★★★¼
10. Triple H vs Ric Flair (Last Man Standing) - *Survivor Series* - ★★★★¼
9. Shawn Michaels vs Shelton Benjamin - *Raw 5/2/2005* - ★★★★¼
8. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - *Wrestlemania 21* - ★★★★¼
7. Matt Hardy vs Edge (Steel Cage) - *Unforgiven* - ★★★★½
6. Ric Flair vs Triple H (Steel Cage) - *Taboo Tuesday* - ★★★★½
5. Edge vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho (Money in the Bank) - *Wrestlemania 21* - ★★★★½
4. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell) - *Armageddon* - ★★★★½
3. John Cena vs JBL (I Quit) - *Judgment Day* - ★★★★½
2. Triple H vs Batista vs Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) - *New Year's Revolution* - ★★★★¾
1. Batista vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell) - *Vengeance* - ★★★★¾


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Finally got done with 2005 and as I said, a top 50 best matches list would be on the way. I may need to rewatch some of these but I'm going to rush the list first and then I'll do a in-depth review of the whole year another time, perhaps tomorrow.
> 
> *Top 50 Matches of 2005:*
> 
> ...


(Y) list. Some I have higher than others and some I'd have lower than others, but the top 5 is really spot on. The GIMMICKS were brought in spades that year. They all delivered as perfect general feud enders or amazing showcase mutliman matches. It's such a strong year. :mark: @ Flair vs Angle making it. Always was a mark for the match.

Only the Handicap casket & Michaels/Angle on the list is all I have to question. :hmm:

Cena vs RVD from ONS sucks.

Great overall view on the Rockers/Brainbusters series, WOOLCOOK. It might inspire me to stop being lazy/distracted and watch all of them too. Go all the links saved this so ~!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Great overall view on the Rockers/Brainbusters series, WOOLCOOK. It might inspire me to stop being lazy/distracted and watch all of them too. Go all the links saved this so ~!


I look forward to your thoughts whenever you get around to watching the matches.

I can't see you disliking it at all. As I said those a little less fond of tag wrestling and its adherence to formula may find some of the repeated spots distracting but I look at it mainly as them making a set of spots the staple of their matches and just building the bulk of the match around them. Only time I had a slight issue with their formula as I mentioned was what I thought was a bit of an abrupt finish to the LA match, but that's a minor imperfection on an otherwise stellar match.

Hopefully in the new year I'll be putting in a joint order to Cal & Seabs and picking up Memphis, Mid South, AWA & Buddy Rose comps (Y).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nice job. I had NO idea Rey and JBL faced at another PPV other than JD06. Man I am excited to watch that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Wrestlemania 22 is one of my favorite shows ever. It's a super fun show with a number of quality matches, and a few that I consider to be classics.

Tag Match **1/2
MITB II ****1/4
JBL/Benoit **3/4
Edge/Foley ****1/2
Booker/Boogeyman N/A
Trish/Mickie ***
Taker/Henry **1/2
HBK/Vince ***
Angle/Orton/Rey ***3/4
Torrie/Candice N/A
Cena/HHH ****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

@Hailsabin: You already know that I love the casket match but what's the problem with Angle/HBK? I enjoyed the first two, WM specially. It went on for too long but it got awesome towards the last 7-8 minutes with the dual chants and the constant nearfalls. Second match was like a weaker rendition but still enjoyable to me.

And YES, those gimmick matches just brought it every time, specially the highest rated ones.

Also a few matches that almost made it:
Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero - SD 14/4 (nearly wanted to switch one of the matches in the bottom with it, far better than anything they did from 04)
Eddie vs Rey - Steel Cage
Benoit vs Booker - several matches they had but most notably 2/12 and 29/11.



> Nice job. I had NO idea Rey and JBL faced at another PPV other than JD06. Man I am excited to watch that.


I also recommend their match the week after WM21. It's #48.

EDIT: Some Benoit mark I am.  He completely rules the list with 15 matches. Followed by Randy Orton, who has 11.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I look forward to your thoughts whenever you get around to watching the matches.
> 
> I can't see you disliking it at all. As I said those a little less fond of tag wrestling and its adherence to formula may find some of the repeated spots distracting but I look at it mainly as them making a set of spots the staple of their matches and just building the bulk of the match around them. Only time I had a slight issue with their formula as I mentioned was what I thought was a bit of an abrupt finish to the LA match, but that's a minor imperfection on an otherwise stellar match.
> 
> Hopefully in the new year I'll be putting in a joint order to Cal & Seabs and picking up Memphis, Mid South, AWA & Buddy Rose comps (Y).


(Y)

Oh there will be no way I'll dislike them. I tend to get a bit distracted on when I say "I'm going to watch all of these" then I up and find something else to watch. It's frustrating, but I'll make myself do it. As I've mentioned I own 3 of their matches already and I've ":marked:" for each one. Formula tended to be the same, but much like you pointed out it was a staple instead of a sign of repetitiveness.

I'll get on them in the start of the new year. Have to be then b/c right now my time is quite booked up + plans on New Year's which is expected. Plus I HAD my obligation to finish the Punk/Cena matches before New Years too. Shit happens.  _(i'll still finish that too. almost done.)_

Yeah, I got to give Seabs my money and own his Liger comp ASAP. I said that since last year. Maybe it should be done now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd order a bit more from them but let's be honest, I'll have enough trouble watching all of them first let alone more. Both will be getting my money over the course of the year however. Bout time I repaid their hardwork beyond mere rep and sexy gifs.

Looking forward to the Punk/Cena stuff. I was gonna give their 8/22 match a watch since I saw it getting talked up a week or so back and I couldn't remember a thing about it. Cena/Mysterio is currently my #1 Cena TV MOTY for 2011, so be interested to see if Punk/Cena can top it.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Suddenly had a craving to go back and watch some multi-men, mainly fatal-4-way/triple threat championship matches. What's your guys's favorite Triple threat and Fatal 4-way matchup? There's a lot of amazing Triple Threat matches, but not so much when it comes to Fatal 4-ways. Anyways, here's some that I watched recently and wanted to review: 

_Randy Orton (C) vs. Triple H vs. JBL vs. John Cena _*Backlash 2008- ★★★★*
Great main-event, but some spots seemed really awkward. Also, JR/Lawler didn't seem to gel as well as they usually do. Thought that Cena and JBL got eliminated too early, but that was to set up the Cena/JBL feud for the next couple months so that was understandable. Orton/Triple H had a nice 18 minute series after that which started out slow, but was pleasant to watch in its own right. The whole match should've been a bit shorter, but other then that, pretty quality main-event. Why the hell did they do Orton/HHH at Mania the next year when it had been done to death the year before? Seriously? 

_John Cena (C) vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton _*Backlash 2007- ★★★★½*
AWESOME match is all I can say. The biggest thing I got out of this match is how much Cena's improved in ring ever since 2007, how much I miss HBK since he retired in 2010. That guy just had something special to him, something that made matches flow together so nicely and that showed in this match. Brilliant from start to finish, and JR/Lawler was AWESOME on the booth too. Underrated 4-way IMO. This match just flowed together so nicely, and the ending was the only thing that I didn't like. But even then, I understand why they did it, and it was a cool visual.

_John Cena (C) vs. Edge vs. Triple H _*Backlash 2006- ★★★★¼ *
Great match. Edge looked a bit sloppy in the match, and like I said earlier, Cena has improved leap years ever since his injury in 2008 that I can’t bear to see Cena perform like he did in the past. Still, strong main-event, and a nice use of blood for effect. The one thing I’ve noticed watching all these Cena multi-man matches is that there’s always a Attitude Adjustment Tower of Doom spot, but it get’s the crowd into it. Another thing: This match is No DQ and no countout, so that ref bump was really unnecessary, but still, really great match. Also the beginning of Hunters face turn and the reformation of DX in 2006. 

_Sheamus (C) vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Randy Orton _*Over The Limit 2012- ★★★★¼ *
Underrated match IMO. Sure, it’s not MOTY, but it would make my list if I were to devise one, and not many people give it enough love. There were spots in the match where I legit thought that everyone had a chance at winning. Awesome fast paced fatal 4-way match, and really, I believe that this is the match that Jericho really got back in the groove of things after his return got cooled off since January. Too bad he would leave a couple months later, but his last couple of matches with Ziggler and this one were awesome before he had to leave. Strong match, with kind of an anticlimactic ending because the White Noise wasn’t over as a finisher at the time because of the brough kick, but still a strong match up. Did I mention how awesome that Jericho spot was when he gave everyone the codebreaker? Made me go fuck yeah motherfucker. 

_The Undertaker (C) vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle _*Vengeance 2002- ★★★★¾ *
AMAZING amazing match. I can’t believe I missed over this match for the longest time. Everyone always told me that they preferred this match over the HHH/HBK/Benoit WrestleMania XX match when it comes Triple Threat matches, and I always argued against them despite not even watching it, but despite HHH/HBK/Benoit being the GOAT Triple Threat match for me, man does this match come close. Awesome combinations of all types of wrestling you can think of. Flawless transitions from one to the next. Strong story. All three people were brilliant, but IMO, the star was Kurt Angle. One of the most entertaining matches I’ve ever seen and probably my most favorite match of 2002. Man, in terms of in-ring, 2002 was AMAZING now that I think about it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

My favorite multi-man match is the Wrestlemania XX triple threat. I consider it to be the best match of all time. Three of the best ever head-to-head-to-head in the main event of what (at the time) was billed as the biggest Wrestlemania ever. Going into the match, Benoit kind of stuck out like a sore thumb because HBK/HHH were feuding at the time and Benoit kind of just entered himself into the equation because he won the Rumble. But he won me over after his amazing performance. What a story. Him winning the belt after almost 20 years of hard work and dedication was such an emotional moment. They built up to it perfectly. It was as if Benoit had slayed the dragon when he made Hunter tap out. 

If only the title still meant what it did back then.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I agree. It also helps that my first ever time watching wrestling was when I watched the 2004 Royal Rumble match. And ever since then, I've had an emotional attachment to Chris Benoit, and followed his Road To WrestleMania XX. To me, Triple H was the biggest dick in the world at that point, and Shawn Michaels was another obstacle for my hero to overcome, so I was completely GLUED to the TV when that Triple Threat match was on, and was completely sucked into the action. Amazing match, and one of the best of all time. That moment when Benoit made HHH tap out made me the happiest kid on earth that moment. There was magic in the air that night.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Yup, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I started watching wrestling regularly around that time as well. Such a great moment I have to post it.






The Game sold that Crossface like a champ. JR is amazing on commentary too.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

My favourite ending to a Wrestlemania

Seeing Benoit someone I'd always really liked finally winning the world title then the show going off air with him and Eddie sitting on top of the world.

Loved the match itself as well and probably my favourite multi man non-gimmick match (wow that's a mouthful). Might go give it a rewatch as I haven't got a lot going on today


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'd order a bit more from them but let's be honest, I'll have enough trouble watching all of them first let alone more. Both will be getting my money over the course of the year however. Bout time I repaid their hardwork beyond mere rep and sexy gifs.
> 
> Looking forward to the Punk/Cena stuff. I was gonna give their 8/22 match a watch since I saw it getting talked up a week or so back and I couldn't remember a thing about it. Cena/Mysterio is currently my #1 Cena TV MOTY for 2011, so be interested to see if Punk/Cena can top it.


Yeah, fuck me I know right? I'm trying to cram as much of 2012 as I could the last 3 months and while my progress was rather good, it wasn't enough time to play catch up on the majority of the year. Now if I ordered DVDs? oh I would only do what I needed to do in the day and watch wrestling. That's it. Don't know if that's TOO bad though... 

It's great. It knocked off Cena/Mysterio for me. Which was a surprise when I went back and watched both. I found elements of Cena/Mysterio that I didn't enjoy as much the first time around and Punk vs Cena was legit amazing on a rewatch. Another phenomenal atmosphere. Goosebumps the whole time.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

The Backlash 2006 Triple Threat match annoys me so much. At the time I despised Cena and seeing him lose the title would have been the greatest thing ever as far as I was concerned. When he dropped Edge over the top rope and Triple H went in for the pedigree, I was certain it was over, damn false finish and Triple H also seems unable to kick out of that Jackknife pin.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Game vs Edge OWNS.

****


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

H beating the shit out of everyone w/hammer much to the delight of the fans in attendance adds 1/4* for me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Another reason that match is awesome:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's right, Lita got fucking destroyed :lmao


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Lita also did take some risky bumps in the WWF/E. I remember Edge giving her a Spear in the first TLC match at SummerSlam 2000 and her head/neck almost in a whiplash effect bouncing off the floor. It could just be her selling but it looked very painful. She would always take 3Ds from the Dudleys and F-Us from Cena. And who can forget the infamous beat-down Austin & HHH gave her on Raw, or the suicide dive (landing on her neck!) on Trish in the main event on Raw? That woman was a champion. I even remember Trish pushing her off a ladder into a table in the middle of the ring.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, she was awesome. Suicide dive is still hard to watch. HHH/Austin beatdown might be the greatest thing ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Lita also did take some risky bumps in the WWF/E. I remember Edge giving her a Spear in the first TLC match at SummerSlam 2000 and her head/neck almost in a whiplash effect bouncing off the floor. It could just be her selling but it looked very painful. She would always take 3Ds from the Dudleys and F-Us from Cena. And who can forget the infamous beat-down Austin & HHH gave her on Raw, or the suicide dive (landing on her neck!) on Trish in the main event on Raw? That woman was a champion. I even remember Trish pushing her off a ladder into a table in the middle of the ring.


best part was following the spear and JR yelling "oh, that SON OF A BITCH!". 

Lita ruled. She was SO over too. It's unreal. I might have to have an obligatory TLC I watch today after this. It's one of my all time personal favorites. Matt Hardy's backwards fall through the tables is INSANE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

JR makes everything better. Only time I was mad at him was when he introduced those jobbers (one being ISAAC YANKEM, DDS) as Razor and Diesel.

Thank God FAKE Diesel ---> Kane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FAKE Diesel was boss, obviously. KANE. The FAKE Razor was so bad. Where in the hell did they find that guy?

JR heel work in late '96 =


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lita was awesome even though Trish is my favorite female wrestler. Funny how the Edge/Matt Hardy drama did a complete 180 for Lita and she went from one of the most over faces to quite possibly the most over heel along with Edge. She couldn't even retire in a respectable way, lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Her sendoff from the company is still well worth a laugh. JBL buys her panties, iirc. :lmao

C2D, idk if you saw it but I enjoyed the 2005 list you pumped out. Edge/Hardy Steel Cage love. IMO


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Were Lita and Trish actually THAT GOOD in the ring compared to all of the other female wrestlers, or did we just completely fuck up and forget what good women's wrestling is due to how the nature and place of women in the WWE has changed (IT SUCKS). I've seen some phenomenal talents on the independent scene both live and on tape who are actually great performers with good looks on the side.

About six years ago I watched Natalya wrestle Sarah Stock (Sarita in TNA) in front of about 500 people in a small arena.... AND THEY TORE THE FUCKING HOUSE DOWN. Nattie is actually fucking awesome, it just sucks that they give her absolute SHIT


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Trish and Lita were that good.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Does anyone have a video of Lita getting beat down with a chair by the Power Trip?


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I loved Lita so much. Such a shame what happened to her. If only the fans could know how big of a fuckwit Matt Hardy is then maybe they would understand that her leaving him was the best decision of her life.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lita was. Trish wasn't. She sucked for the majority of her career. She had a great presence though.

And Sarah Stock is the bees knees. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lita's suicide dive is one of those "OMFG OUCH" moments that's actually pretty fucking hard to watch at times 

Sarah Stock is also extremely friendly and TALKATIVE.... I bought an independent DVD that she had for sale showcasing her time in Mexico, and found that it was one of the best displays I've ever seen from Women's Wrestling. She ROCKED as Dark Angel in CMLL


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Trish improved big time as she got more experience. I wasn't and still am not a huge women wrestling fan, but those two were good. Have to give credit where it is due.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Lita's suicide dive is one of those "OMFG OUCH" moments that's actually pretty fucking hard to watch at times
> 
> Sarah Stock is also extremely friendly and TALKATIVE.... I bought an independent DVD that she had for sale showcasing her time in Mexico, and found that it was one of the best displays I've ever seen from Women's Wrestling. She ROCKED as Dark Angel in CMLL


She's great. Matches vs Cheerleader Melissa/Alissa Flash in both SHIMMER & TNA own. They got amazing chemistry. 19 minutes or 5. It didn't matter. Always worth seeing.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> Trish improved big time as she got more experience. I wasn't and still am not a huge women wrestling fan, but those two were good. Have to give credit where it is due.


Meh, nothing too overly special. By the time she was "seasoned" she still wasn't that great. Knew how to work matches better. Certainly was head and shoulders among a lot of the "talent" - boy, do I ever use that term loosely - although there wasn't much she did that warranted her as impressive. Match vs Mickie at WrestleMania is the good one. Everything else is either nothing special, crowd made the match, or was bad.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Were Lita and Trish actually THAT GOOD in the ring compared to all of the other female wrestlers, or did we just completely fuck up and forget what good women's wrestling is due to how the nature and place of women in the WWE has changed (IT SUCKS). I've seen some phenomenal talents on the independent scene both live and on tape who are actually great performers with good looks on the side.


They actually weren't, at least to me. A lot of their matches were full of botches too but I think people just tend to forget that.

Back in the days I always thought Jazz was much better than both of them. I enjoy a lot of women more than them in the ring Cheerleader Melissa, Hamada, Madison Eagles, Awesome Kong,Mickie James, Kellie Skater, Gail Kim(not WWE Gail) etc.

They did have a good feud though and so did Mickie and Trish. However I always thought both of them specifically Trish(as far as in ring is concerned) were overhyped.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*THE YEAR OF 2005*

*RAW:*​This brand got off to a great start with entertaining shows throughout January and a very good road to the Royal Rumble. Raw continued to be very good throughout the first half with an excellent Road to Wrestlemania where every match got some build with the main highlight being Batista's face turn and eventually his Wrestlemania victory that put him over the top. On the other side of things, Muhammad Hassan was on a roll with good booking that didn't make him weak and lots of microphone time where he got shitload of heel heat that made his future look bright. But things took a bit of a turn in the summer with the huge draft when champions got switched and John Cena became the top guy of the brand as well as the loss of some great key players on Raw such as Chris Benoit and Randy Orton. Even though Christian was terribly treated with a draft that put him in a directionless state until his split, the summer was good enough with excellent build-ups for Cena/Jericho's feud as well as Shawn Michaels bringing out his old dickhead self and carrying his feud with Hogan like a champ. Not to forget the real-life based feud between Edge and Matt Hardy. Triple H also took a break so that he would be... missed after hogging the main event spotlight for years. Sadly, things started to fall off after the Homecoming episode for a bit. While I enjoyed Ric Flair and HHH's feud as well as the brand vs brand feud with the constant run-ins making it look heated, Cena started to become more unbearable with superman booking where heels are unable to buy a credible victory if their lives depended on it. It was also coming with an extremely forced "evil boss" angle where Eric Bischoff would constantly try to screw John Cena but failed time after time after time. Even in handicap matches, Cena would still easily win by pinning the guy he's not in a feud with. I can understand all the heat he started to get after this considering that he _became_ the odds rather than the underdog as a babyface is supposed to be. Too dominant booking led to some sort of downfall for him with the crowd as more and more fans started booing him, earliest being SummerSlam and later catching on regularly in every arena by November. To make matters worse, WWE's attempt at getting the heat off him was going to any lengths to make Kurt Angle hated from using Daivari as his sidekick to insulting the US Army to demanding the crowd to be censored and anything else you can think of in terms of cheap heat. The sad part of it is that the crowd STILL didn't give up and continued booing Cena and cheering Angle. But that's not the only fault of this year as I found the terrible bookings of Shelton Benjamin and Carlito disgusting. The former went from one of the most over faces who was a future World Champion to a jobber just after losing his Intercontinental Championship. Carlito went the exact same route after jobbing to Ric Flair twice and losing to Mick Foley on PPV for no good reason. But another part of the brand that suffered was the tag team division. For no good reason, La Resistance were split up by the draft and from then on, the tag division became more and more dead as The Hurricane and Rosey were holding the titles but only jobbed and rarely appeared on Raw. This is no big deal to me as I'm not a massive tag team mark but it's still something to hold against them since it's possible to say the tag division's downfall started some time around here. I also couldn't stand the Diva Search this year but I skipped the segments (no Michelle McCool or Maria this year) so it didn't bother me like in 2004 where it looked like they ate up too much TV time. On the good side for the women, Mickie James was introduced and slowly, her "psycho" angle with Trish Stratus is started. A good year for Raw but as usual, it wasn't without its negatives. On a positive note, at least we didn't have Benoit being Eugene's sidekick! Before I move on, I'll also bring up Chris Masters, who many had a problem with at the time but I personally didn't mind him and his push. Plus he improved by the end of the year compared to when he debuted. What I did have a problem with, however, is Viscera's little "push" when he had that stupid angle with Lillian Garcia. That shit took too much TV time only for any pay-off concluding in a segment at Vengeance where Vis would just walk off with The Godfather's hoes and leave Lillian behind. In the words of Randy Orton, "STUPID!".

*Overall Rating:* ★★★½ out of ★★★★★

*SMACKDOWN:*​Smackdown had a terrible 2004 but it bounced back early on with a far better 2005. Plants were seeded early on for Eddie Guerrero's heel turn later, John Cena slowly made his way to the main event and JBL's clusterfuck feud with Big Show and Kurt Angle was so messy that it was entertaining and after a slow second month, things started to get a _little_ better on the Road to Wrestlemania. Nothing compared to how good Raw was but it was enjoyable and Cena/JBL were on some entertaining segments together. From then on, Eddie's heel turn happened shortly after Wrestlemania while the main event scene looked like it was coasting until the draft. Still not much of a problem but despite the fact that it looked like Smackdown got ripped off, the draft refreshed the scene big time. US Championship has prestige brought back to it with Chris Benoit entering the scene (and removing the worthless Orlando Jordan) and Randy Orton's feud with Undertaker was officially underway. Eddie and Rey Mysterio had a good feud at first but it started to get unbearable with all the stupid "secret" stuff and the involvement of Dominick. Christian was brought over but terribly misused with absolutely no direction and in the end, he decided to call it quits and went to TNA instead. And then there's Muhammad Hassan who was doing great in a feud with Undertaker and eventually a World Title feud with Batista but unfortunately, they introduced some stupid terrorist side to him with those masked men and it happened at the worst possible time on the same day as the London bombings. As result, Muhammad's character was written off and he decided to leave since they had no idea on how to repackage him. The main event during the time was also terrible with the dreadful Batista/JBL feud that resulted in one of the most boring matches ever at The Great American Bash and a couple of other average at best matches. While the Ortons and Undertaker set the world on fire with their awesome feud, Eddie was introduced back to the main event after finally beating Rey inside a steel cage and Benoit was doing good squashing Orlando every week before Booker T came to the scene to bring back some interest to the midcard. And even not when in a feud, there were some entertaining matches throughout the second half that are worth a watch. So other than Muhammad Hassan and Christian's terrible endings this year as well as the boring JBL/Batista feud, Smackdown's second half was far better than Raw. Other stuff worth mentioning is MNM bringing some life into the tag division as well as the Mexicools with the cruiserweight division. But unfortunately for the cruisers, a lot of their work was stuck in Velocity and therefore, may have gone missing for a lot of fans. The biggest negative of 2005 affected Smackdown, though. That is Eddie Guerrero's death which the business has not quite recovered from to this day. Just when he was heading towards more interesting feuds, he had to leave this world and it remains the biggest problem with 2005. Such a great year but ends on a sour note with this huge loss.

*Overall Rating:* ★★★½ out of ★★★★★

*Feud of the Year:* The Undertaker vs Randy Orton
*Worst Feud:* JBL vs Batista
*Best Event:* Raw (14th March)
*Worst Event:* Eddie Guerrero's death
*Best Face Turn:* Batista
*Best Heel Turn:* Tie between Eddie Guerrero, Randy Orton and Shawn Michaels
*Best Pay Per View:* Vengeance
*Best Match:* Batista vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell)
*Best Utilized Talent:* Randy Orton
*Most Misused Talent:* Shelton Benjamin and Christian

*Ranking Pay Per Views:*
1. Vengeance
2. Survivor Series
3. Wrestlemania 21
4. One Night Stand
5. Royal Rumble
6. SummerSlam
7. No Mercy
8. Backlash
9. Judgment Day
10. Unforgiven
11. Armageddon
12. Taboo Tuesday
13. No Way Out
14. New Year's Revolution
15. The Great American Bash

FINAL YEAR RATING: ★★★¾ out of ★★★★★​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I just wish one of TNA/WWE signed all of the best Women's talent and then we could have an amazing division on our hands in either promotion. Instead, we have two very medicore, boring and irrelevant divisions. Think about a division featuring...

Mickie James
Tara/Victoria
Eve Torres
Natalya
Gail Kim
AJ
ODB
Kaitlyn
Paige

That's a division to care about, tbh. 

Edit: That's without even delving in to the independent scene or rehiring former divas - McCool (she retired I believe), Melina, Kharma etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd only enjoy about 5 from that list, tbhayley.

Eve wouldn't be one of them. I'd add her for something nice to look at. Then again, with Paige & Natalya on my list I guess it's irrelevant. 

Mickie James needs to GTFO. She called herself the best female wrestler in the world one night on Impact. Bitch has lost it.

Oh, and I'd have to have Sara Del Rey in my women's division. + Melissa Anderson. Those are a given.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> She's great. Matches vs Cheerleader Melissa/Alissa Flash in both SHIMMER & TNA own. They got amazing chemistry. 19 minutes or 5. It didn't matter. Always worth seeing.
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, nothing too overly special. By the time she was "seasoned" she still wasn't that great. Knew how to work matches better. Certainly was head and shoulders among a lot of the "talent" - boy, do I ever use that term loosely - although there wasn't much she did that warranted her as impressive. Match vs Mickie at WrestleMania is the good one. Everything else is either nothing special, crowd made the match, or was bad.


The only two women I've ever had a kernel of care for to watch in the ring were Lita and Trish. Compared to the rest of the women, I think they were fantastic. Compared to the men, of course not.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Needs more GLAMAZON~!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fantastic write up on my personal favorite year in wrestling history ; 2005. I'm a true believer in the idea that the Orton-Taker feud is Orton's all time greatest feud while being Taker's greatest of the 21st century. Liked it far more than the Taker-Edge and Taker-Batista series's because of the segment quality mixed in with the stellar match quality.

You're right on the mark with your analysis from top to bottom as we would probably have the exact same PPV rankings besides BACKLASH being higher. Glad to see that ONS isn't being completely overrated because of "crowd reaction" like it normally is, when ONS 2006 was clearly better.

Batista/Trips or Elimination Chamber III ; either one is a beautiful choice for MOTY


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Fantastic write up on my personal favorite year in wrestling history ; 2005. I'm a true believer in the idea that the Orton-Taker feud is Orton's all time greatest feud while being Taker's greatest of the 21st century. Liked it far more than the Taker-Edge and Taker-Batista series's because of the segment quality mixed in with the stellar match quality.
> 
> You're right on the mark with your analysis from top to bottom as we would probably have the exact same PPV rankings besides BACKLASH being higher. Glad to see that ONS isn't being completely overrated because of "crowd reaction" like it normally is, when ONS 2006 was clearly better.
> 
> Batista/Trips or Elimination Chamber III ; either one is a beautiful choice for MOTY


They're my top two. In case you missed my top 50 list yesterday, here is it.

And ONS was a blast but the matches outside Tanaka/Awesome are not really memorable.

And if anyone skipped over my write-up, this is the link.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

As far as I'm concerned Trish and Lita were great women's wrestlers or "Divas" if you want to use that term. They had the looks, can work matches, had over spots/moves, great crowd connection/appeal, and character. No, they are not on the technical levels of a Sara Del Ray or Cheerleader Melissa but the sum total of what they had to offer was all I could ask for in the top two talents of a female division. Both did great jobs as heel and face characters too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> The only two women I've ever had a kernel of care for to watch in the ring were Lita and Trish. Compared to the rest of the women, I think they were fantastic. Compared to the men, of course not.


I think everyone would in the world of WWE's women's division. Well, I'd probably select Bull Nakano or Maryse before Trish. But, I'm the minority.



The Lady Killer said:


> Needs more GLAMAZON~!


GLAM.



Best In The North Pole said:


> Fantastic write up on my personal favorite year in wrestling history ; 2005. I'm a true believer in the idea that the Orton-Taker feud is Orton's all time greatest feud while being Taker's greatest of the 21st century. Liked it far more than the Taker-Edge and Taker-Batista series's because of the segment quality mixed in with the stellar match quality.
> 
> You're right on the mark with your analysis from top to bottom as we would probably have the exact same PPV rankings besides BACKLASH being higher. Glad to see that ONS isn't being completely overrated because of "crowd reaction" like it normally is, when ONS 2006 was clearly better.
> 
> Batista/Trips or Elimination Chamber III ; either one is a beautiful choice for MOTY


I'll still take ONS '05 over '06. Both are tons of fun, but something about '05 has more appeal to me. Plus '06 has two very overrated lame bouts in Angle/Orton & Cena/RVD. The TAJIRI~! tag blows both away. Shame it never gets any credit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES. TRIPS-BENOIT GETTING SOME MAD LOVE IN HERE.

Still think that their Gold-Rush tournament match with TRIPS TAPPING AGAIN is just as good, and some of the best television matches of his career. It's probably my second highest ranked Trips singles' TV match ever behind the 2003 HBK bout.

He may be overrated by some and underrated by some, but Trips in 04-06 was AMAZING on a week to week basis IMO.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Once he turned face it was pretty much all down hill from there in terms of ring work for at least a couple of years.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I
> Mickie James needs to GTFO. She called herself the best female wrestler in the world one night on Impact. Bitch has lost it.


Thought she might have been hinting at a heel turn with that cockiness. First time I ever heard her say that.


The Lady Killer said:


> Needs more GLAMAZON~!


Wow, I forgot all about Beth Phoenix. 

Think my favorite match of hers was against Melina in an I Quit Match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> YES. TRIPS-BENOIT GETTING SOME MAD LOVE IN HERE.
> 
> Still think that their Gold-Rush tournament match with TRIPS TAPPING AGAIN is just as good, and some of the best television matches of his career. It's probably my second highest ranked Trips singles' TV match ever behind the 2003 HBK bout.
> 
> He may be overrated by some and underrated by some, but Trips in 04-06 was AMAZING on a week to week basis IMO.


Love their first match. Second one was a bit... strange. Benoit's eyes are just scary to look at when he falls outside the ring. Don't know if he had a legit concussion and just playing it that way. But the match itself was great too. Not better than the first one, though. But Trips tapping was AWZUM~!

And Hunter got definitely better in 04 compared to 03, starting off with the Raw match at the end of 03.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rickey said:


> Thought she might have been hinting at a heel turn with that cockiness. First time I ever heard her say that.
> 
> Wow, I forgot all about Beth Phoenix.
> 
> Think my favorite match of hers was against Melina in an I Quit Match.


I don't know what forced her to say it. It's good to have confidence, but sheesh. Majority of her matches in TNA have been sooooo bad.

I Quit was pretty awesome based upon my memory. Poster The Lady Killer saw it live. Lucky bastard.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lita talk & praise :mark:. I only own 3 pieces of signed wrestling merch, 2 I got recently from Nigel McGuiness because I gave some money to his awesome documentary kickstarter project (got him to sign the DVD and 8x10), and the other? A picture of Lita . I was pretty obsessed with her for a few years back in the day. Still kinda am. Was watching the HOF today since I got WM 28 on bluray in the post, and they kept showing Punk on camera and of course LITA was with him and she looked awesome with her tits nearly out and shit. I've been going through Heat 2000 and there be plenty of LITA on them to make me go :mark:. I don't bother posting that stuff here though lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Must've been Extreme Rules 08?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cal I have it on good authority you're more of a Jungle fever man than Vanilla. You could say you have a taste for a Black Box of Love...:side:

consider that a repayment for all the bloody sheep remarks!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Must've been Extreme Rules 08?


How do I remember it better than you? :lol

Yeah, it was.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cal I have it on good authority you're more of a Jungle fever man than Vanilla. You could say you have a taste for a Black Box of Love...:side:
> 
> consider that a repayment for all the bloody sheep remarks!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I wanted it to be wittier, but that's a job better suited to vivalabrave. If only he were still around.








Or is he?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember TLK and his MORRISON OWNS sign.  And my god that 5 way kendo stick match is so much fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I get the feeling vivalabrave is always watching us.

*puts some clothes on*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

We should talk about Chavo to scare him away.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He needs to be. Get some of that White People Catnip aka Zooey Deschanel all up in here.

or should I keep that a secret?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> I remember TLK and his MORRISON OWNS sign.  And my god that 5 way kendo stick match is so much fun.


Wish I still had the gif from that


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

We've been dropping MOOPS, WOOLCOCK and PHIL MITCHELL'S CRACK ADDICTION references in here for a while tbf. We're just an elite bunch of pro wrasslin guys.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> We've been dropping MOOPS, WOOLCOCK and PHIL MITCHELL'S CRACK ADDICTION references in here for a while tbf. We're just an elite bunch of pro wrasslin guys.




All..*counts* 10 or so of us.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Natural Selection works wonders. The numbers may be futile, but the quality can't be overlooked.

*Even if 30% of posts relate to SLUTS, debauchery, ABC (not the American TV Channel) & a shitting puppy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SLUTS.

I'd say McQueen's dame troubles & epic tales of alcohol induced shenanigans fit the daily mold too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lita fucking sucked. Like, easily worse than Kofi Kingston-level bad. Am I the only one who thinks that? I have a personal disdain for her which might get in the way, but shit, I can't think of any time she looked good. I don't think Trish was that good either but she at least was a good seller. 

If I don't get that package from Cal again he'll probably throw in in a fire and keep my money because of that comment, but I had to say it.

Also, vivalabrave.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jawbreaker's stoned PWG BOLA reviews are incredible as well. Even if there's a serious ratio of Sami Callihan hate to every match of his...

Pretty sure the CIA should be investigating half the antics of our members instead of worrying about internet piracy and shit. If impressionable youngsters found out you could gamble in Glasgow until 3am whilst an old woman fails in yelling at you to cut your losses then we'd be responsible for the deterioration of youth culture. Not that youth culture today is that good anyways. There's more individuality in communism.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Natural Selection works wonders. The numbers may be futile, but the quality can't be overlooked.
> 
> *Even if 30% of posts relate to SLUTS, debauchery, ABC (not the American TV Channel) & a shitting puppy.


Hey, that 30% is half the reason we're awesome .

So yeah, watched the HOF from earlier in the year today. Well up to Edge, parents came home and I like to watch Blurays on the HD TV, so I had to stop watching.

Bradshaw and Simmons to start things off was AWESOME. Bradshaw was legit funny and really fucking put over Ron. Ron was also funny and humble and shit. Nice to see that this year everyone got a good amount of time who needed it. Not like a couple of years ago when everyone got like 10 minutes then shoved off the fucking stage. Four Horsemen were great, though Dusty just rambles on and doesn't make sense during his introduction. Plus he looks like my great grandma. Flair was crying before they even said anything :lmao. Also, :lmao at him basically leaving one of his wives for JOHN CENA. Windham... I actually skipped his part, he was dull as shit which was a shame. Still great to see him on stage though since he suffered a heart attack a few months prior. Anderson was awesome, and I loved how they basically made HIM the star of it all ahead of even Flair. Guy fucking deserved it for sure. Oh, and who was that miserable bitch sitting next to Michael Hayes? She was wearing a suit and tie and didn't smile once and is probably a lesbian.

Also, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU MOOPS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Lita fucking sucked. Like, easily worse than Kofi Kingston-level bad. Am I the only one who thinks that? I have a personal disdain for her which might get in the way, but shit, I can't think of any time she looked good. I don't think Trish was that good either but she at least was a good seller.
> 
> If I don't get that package from Cal again he'll probably throw in in a fire and keep my money because of that comment, but I had to say it.
> 
> Also, vivalabrave.


Don't throw the Kofi line in there. Ouch.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Jawbreaker's stoned PWG BOLA reviews are incredible as well. Even if there's a serious ratio of Sami Callihan hate to every match of his...
> 
> Pretty sure the CIA should be investigating half the antics of our members instead of worrying about internet piracy and shit. If impressionable youngsters found out you could gamble in Glasgow until 3am whilst an old woman fails in yelling at you to cut your losses then we'd be responsible for the deterioration of youth culture. Not that youth culture today is that good anyways. There's more individuality in communism.


I've heard about the lore of his reviews. Never saw them yet. It's too bad. And too bad about the Sami hate. I've known about that for quite sometime now.

:lol

The things some people get away with. Considering my track record, I'll fit into the group just fine. Although I pale _(literally)_ in comparison to Andy. Not even close.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm pretty sure if you search well enough you'll come across them. The grammar is hard to decipher on account of the drinking and drug use, but who doesn't love a challenge?

Tbf I don't think many people bar Craig & Crossface can lead the life Andy lives and still function normally. Storytime with Craig interestes, excites, astounds and disturbs me. He still hasn't told us about the time he passed out on a hill and was awoken by a group of kids on a tour (or something like that).

As for the Lita discussion. Can't say I watched enough of her matches to really hold an opinion of her. Lunatic bumper who was a perfect fit for the Attitude Era, but her and Trish have never really felt 'as good' as others make them out to be. Solid and dependable compared to some of the headcases who've represented the company as a Diva, but hardly groundbreaking or 'very good' workers when you compare them to say some of the Joshi folk (though that's a really unfair comparison given how Joshi was treated in Japan compared to Divas in WWE). FWIW I wouldn't try to compare Trish to an Aja Kong, because its unfair to Trish on a number of levels, but I can't help but point to it as an example of what I consider to be a truly talented female worker. I'm not using that to discredit Trish, since she was never given the chance to ever approach the talent of someone like Kong or Jaguar Yokoto.

As for the HOF, for whatever reason I've never really watched an acceptance speech. I can't imagine how good it is to take in live, and considering some of those who have made the cut you'd think I'd want to hear them discuss their careers and rejoice in getting recognition for their work, even if its hardly the prestigious award its marketed as. Still for whatever reason, I've never felt compelled to watch anything from it. Strange.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Lita fucking sucked. Like, easily worse than Kofi Kingston-level bad. Am I the only one who thinks that? I have a personal disdain for her which might get in the way, but shit, I can't think of any time she looked good. I don't think Trish was that good either but she at least was a good seller.
> 
> If I don't get that package from Cal again he'll probably throw in in a fire and keep my money because of that comment, but I had to say it.
> 
> Also, vivalabrave.


She's like the female version of CM Punk (or maybe Punk is the male version of her since she was around before him) so any hate is welcome in my book. And yes, she was a bad seller. I can instantly think of the Malenko Cloverleaf where she tapped out looking like she was bored rather than in pain.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Wow. Pretty sure all people meant is that they were the best among WWE Divas. I can't speak to other promotions in other countries. I'm sure those women workers are much better than Lita and Trish. But as far as WWE is concerned. That's all. Big difference


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That was me just using others to make a point about why I don't think Trish/Lita to be all that 'great'. As I said I'd never factually compare Trish to some of Joshi's finest because its unfair to her given the level of treatment and training they were afforded compared to what purpose women at that time in US wrestling (and still today) served. I suppose Trish and Lita could be considered the best in terms of strictly WWE, but I've made a habit of avoiding Divas matches historically that I can't really provide a valid argument beyond that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> That was me just using others to make a point about why I don't think Trish/Lita to be all that 'great'. As I said I'd never factually compare Trish to some of Joshi's finest because its unfair to her given the level of treatment and training they were afforded compared to what purpose women at that time in US wrestling (and still today) served. I suppose Trish and Lita could be considered the best in terms of strictly WWE, but I've made a habit of avoiding Divas matches historically that I can't really provide a valid argument beyond that.


Completely cool. I just wanted to clear what I said before. I didn't and wouldn't call them the best female workers in the world (back then), just in WWE. I'm sure there are much better workers in other countries, both male and female.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh, something else about the HOF... didn't there used to be a formal dress code for the fans in attendance too? Was cool to see everyone get dressed up in suits and shit to honour the legends... but this year they all looked like fucking scruffs. Shame on them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd put Trish near the better of the WWE divas. I mean everyone knows that not saying a whole bunch, though. How often was the divas match NOT the worst match on the card of a PPV unless you had an Eric Bischoff v Teddy Long thing going? Myabe I'm wrong, but IDK. I'll watch the Trish/Mickie stuff again I suppose but Mickie just annoys me as well. BETTER THAN LITA, THOUGH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm pretty sure if you search well enough you'll come across them. The grammar is hard to decipher on account of the drinking and drug use, but who doesn't love a challenge?
> 
> Tbf I don't think many people bar Craig & Crossface can lead the life Andy lives and still function normally. Storytime with Craig interestes, excites, astounds and disturbs me. He still hasn't told us about the time he passed out on a hill and was awoken by a group of kids on a tour (or something like that).
> 
> ...


I'll give it a go. Or I can hope Seabs will find it for me. I know he has it.

I'm a tad envious. I have the mindset to live my life in such a mindfuck of a fashion. I'll head to Scotland to learn.

I should try to compare Trish to Aja Kong. I'll write up a 10 paragraph analysis on the subject. I'll have to make sure I have a bottle of rum with me. To get the creative juices flowing. The hate I could bring with the possibilities there.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aja Kong smokes 90% of male wrestlers without any tiny doubt in my mind so I'd like to read her compared to Stratus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

"Both ruled the ring with their undeniable presence. Kong was always an intimidating force. Although, she almost pales in comparison to Trish Stratus. Now that's a women who truly knew how to strike fear in the hearts of her opponents during a match. The big, dull eyes staring into the souls of her opposition. Trish was like a shark. A shark who would kick you in the face Kawada style if she found her chance. Kong was great. Stratus was far greater."

Just a taste.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Needs more indeschiperable English, though I assume that will come naturally as the rum consumption increases.

I like the slow subtle build to something far greater, feels like an 80s NWA Title Match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what I get for being sober + pride myself on being a mark for proper grammar & fun word play.

I suppose if I go through with this I'll let the booze take over and watch the inhibitions fall away.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

AJA KONG :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:

There is a fun 5 minute match on a Raw between her and Chaparrita Asari. 

Here it is






DAT PACKAGE PILEDRIVER AND SPINNING BACKFIST :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trish's snapmares were WAY more vicious.

Kong's not half bad. They're quite close. Kong is the Trish of Joshi.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Kong is the Trish of Joshi.


Oh god, I just had some image in my head of Kong trying to proposition a man on one of those small Japanese tables in the same way Trish did during the Bubba Ray feud leading into Backlash 2000.

I'd make some joke about Kong breaking the table when attempting that, but we all know the japanese tables don't break :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There has to be video of that somewhere. Bet money on it. Especially with her trying to be like Trish.

Japanese tables no sell everyone & everything. Kong's wonderful bottom heavy body is no exception.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched the Raw 100 DVD. It's tragic that HBK mocking Montreal was only a bonus. Wasn't a big fan of the top ten but I can see why most were on there but stuff like Austin/Tyson just isn't a big moment to me. It was when it happened and I was 6, but watching two guys shove each other doesn't do anything for me.

Fun set though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Mike Tyson being on Raw is definitely deserving of a spot. Tyson was a HUGE name in 1998.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN TYSON AND AUSTIN 

-JR


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Downloaded the Ladder Match DVD. Here are my thoughts.

Jake Roberts vs Junkyard- meh. They show you like the last 2 months of the match. This was more of a history lesson, I guess. Pretty weird to see what they called a ladder match back then lol.

Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels ***1/2 



> *Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon Summerslam '94*
> Let me first start off by saying, that this is a much better ladder match than their first encounter. I don't know why the first one gets so much praise when this one is even better!
> 
> The match starts off with pretty much some back and forth action. After sometime, Shawn gets begins to climb the ladder but Razor Ramon throws him off and Shawn lands with his legs trapped between the ladder. Commence the selling! Ramon works over Shawn's legs for what felt like about 10 minutes. Some just brutal, nasty leg work and Shawn sold it to perfection. Ramon starts off by stomping at the trapped leg, slamming the knee on it and slamming it on the stairs from the apron. Shawn sells everything beautifully. It was pretty sick. I always say, it's not automatic for me to suspend disbelief in a match, the workers have to make suspend disbelief and these two did one hell of a job.
> ...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LADDER MATCHES.

I'm a huge advocate.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ladder Match DVD owns. Isn't there a second one now?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

2nd one is kinda meh. It's some good stuff on it but the first set had most of the great stuff.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Ladder Match DVD owns. Isn't there a second one now?





Brye said:


> 2nd one is kinda meh. It's some good stuff on it but the first set had most of the great stuff.


I was going to say the same. I actually haven't seen #1, so I can't compare it; but #2 is a little underwhelming.

but, Falls Count Anywhere DVD was decent. Even had the Rhodes v Orton match from 11' (one of my favorites!)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah second one came out just over a year ago. Had some fun rares on it like a divas one from OVW, E&C Vs Hardys from Raw 2000, one from Smoky Mountain Wrestling, then some awesome matches like Sheamus/Morrison, Christian/Del Rio and others, and Lawler/Miz TLC made the Bluray extras which I was pleased about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Ladder Match DVD owns. Isn't there a second one now?


Yep. Not really worth it, imo. Only b/c a lot is available on other sets or PPVs.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

#1 is super awesome from what I can remember. It has all the TLC matches from live TV that I missed while I was being a jobber and thought I was above watching wrestling.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Ladder Match DVD set is fuckin' cool. Too many gems to name. The second was okay too but the first one is packed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The first set coming out before Benoit murdered himself, family and career meant that we got TLC III in all its awesomeness, so that set is an instant win.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

KingCal said:


> The first set coming out before Benoit murdered himself, family and career meant that we got TLC III in all its awesomeness, so that set is an instant win.


Yes sir it did. He's even on the cover IIRC. Such an awesome set. So many matches I had forgotten like Christian vs Chris Jericho, Benoit vs Jericho, Edge vs Christian along with the TLC goodies and you have a ball with that jawn.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TLC IV ftw. I might be alone, but I LOVE that shit.

Makeshift tag team CHAOS~!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Christian & Jericho was a great tag team at that time. (Y)

Match is fun as hell but I haven't watched it in a while.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pop it in, BRO.

:mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damnit, I'm going to have to unearth this Ladder DVD set now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao I'm about to pop that out now.

EDGE/FLAIR TOO~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Damnit, I'm going to have to unearth this Ladder DVD set now.


In the sea of all those VHS tapes, eh? 



Brye said:


> :lmao I'm about to pop that out now.
> 
> EDGE/FLAIR TOO~!


:mark:

It's hard to not watch the whole thing when you put in a disc. I've only been intent on watching one match. Then I up and watch the whole disc, haha.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Edge/Flair is on it too?!?

And yeah, all my wrestling DVDs are lost in the sea of VHS tapes at my parent's house. Really need to sort through them all. Luckily, they only live about 20 minutes away :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC IV is good, nothing great though. 8th best TLC match. Ranked them after watching TLC PPV:

13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
11. DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 - **1/2
10. CM Punk Vs Alberto Del Rio Vs The Miz - TLC XII TLC 2011 - **1/2
09. John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 - ***
08. Bubba & Spike Vs Kane & Hurricane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 - ***1/4
07. CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009 - ***1/2
06. Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010 - ***1/2
05. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 01/04/2001 - ***3/4
04. Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
03. The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012 - ****
02. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I SummerSlam 2000 - ****1/4
01. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001 - ****1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Did a Mike match just enter a top 10 list of Cal? :lmao

I wish the Benoit tragedy could be undone. So much great stuff is being buried now. FUCK YOU VINCE! :sad:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingCal said:


> TLC IV is good, nothing great though. 8th best TLC match. Ranked them after watching TLC PPV:
> 
> 13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
> 12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
> ...


Good to notice something. Undertaker vs Edge really isn't very good. Taker tried, but it wasn't exactly a fit. vs Hardy on RAW worked, but that's only b/c of the awesome story behind it. Cena vs Edge is pretty meh for me too.

My ratings on a lot of those are pretty high by comparison, haha. I <3 dem LADDERS.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Even seeing Taker/Edge live didn't do much for it. The spots were so choreographed that I almost felt insulted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was contrived, but Hawkins dying on the chokeslam through the table is the only moment I liked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Even watching live I could see EVERY spot before it happened. Only surprise was that Undertaker took the final one .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I meant live as in at the arena. Most of the time the live experience bias enhances the match, but that wasn't really the case here. It was entertaining, but very predictable. Plus, did anyone really think Taker would retire?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I didn't think he was going to lose the match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man that Taker/Edge is horrible. I'm trying to think of something else to say, but...I can't.  Just.....that match stinks.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I may be in the minority but I don't like Undertaker/Edge feud at all. It was just.....lacking. Coming off the epic Undertaker/Batista slugfests it seemed bogged down by the story-line. The WM XIV match was good and that's really the only match I thoroughly enjoyed between them. Their TLC & HIAC matches were just meh to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love their WM, BL and JD matches. TLC is trash and HIAC is good but I find it to be overrated. So overall the matches were mostly really fucking good, but the segments and build up and shit for the most part was just horrible. Definitely prefer the Batista series though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> I didn't think he was going to lose the match.


That's just because you're a stupid mark. 

I had a feeling Taker would lose, but didn't think he'd be the one falling out of the ring through 4 tables. 



jonoaries said:


> Their TLC & HIAC matches were just meh to me.


I loved their HIAC match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

jonoaries said:


> I may be in the minority but I don't like Undertaker/Edge feud at all. It was just.....lacking. Coming off the epic Undertaker/Batista slugfests it seemed bogged down by the story-line. The WM XIV match was good and that's really the only match I thoroughly enjoyed between them. Their TLC & HIAC matches were just meh to me.


Yeah I don't like the feud very much at all. WM is good but not THAT good. Same deal with HIAC. TLC is rubbish and the others I don't even remember, but should watch again. Taker's feud with the Big Show later in the year was so much better.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

KingCal said:


> TLC IV is good, nothing great though. 8th best TLC match. Ranked them after watching TLC PPV:
> 
> 13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
> 12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
> ...


Agreed with the list. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels Edge/Cena wasn't that great. I liked it at the time, but after re-watching it on Edge's DVD, it just wasn't as good as I remembered it.

I haven't seen Edge/Taker since it happened but I remember not liking it much after the match. I still enjoyed the feud and they made up for it in the HIAC match, IMO, which I did enjoy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> That's just because you're a stupid mark.
> 
> I had a feeling Taker would lose, but didn't think he'd be the one falling out of the ring through 4 tables.


Perhaps. 

Yeah, HIAC was fantastic. Best match they produced.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with the first Smackdown of 2006 and it was an awesome show. Watched every minute of it without a skip which is not something I do very often.

JBL vs Matt Hardy (Falls Count Anywhere) - ★★
- Could have gotten more time but Matt bashing JBL's skull 8 times in a row with the trashcan was just... wow. Also lol'd @ Boogeyman putting the worms inside Jillian's panties.

Mark Henry vs Jobbers - SQUASH
- Mizark marks (no pun intended) his impressive return after Benoit injured that arm for almost two years with the Crippler Crossface. 8*D

Kid Kash vs Juventud - ★★★
- Much better than their Armageddon match since crowd didn't shit on them this time and they seemed more inspired to put on a greater effort too. Also Kennedy on commentary was great!

Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton - ★★★¼
- Was a great, great match but then Orlando fucked it all up by showing up to hit Benoit with the crunch. DAMN YOU! I wouldn't mind the DQ if the match actually went over 7 or so minutes (excluding commercial break).

Gymini vs Londrick - SQUASH
- Not really a match but the squashing around of London and Kendrick had me in tears. They get MURDERED completely and their over the top selling made it hilarious. :lmao And why does Simon Dean still have a job with the same one-dimensional gimmick at this point?

MNM vs Batista & Rey Mysterio (Steel Cage) - ★★★½
- Their match before Armageddon was good, their match in the final SD of 05 was better but this one is the best! Really enjoyed it. MNM are spot on with their teamwork, Rey does his part as always and Batista is on fire as the powerhouse. Mizark's interference was very welcome too although it gave me the third "lol" moment of the show when he walked around for a minute thinking of a way to open the cage and show off his strength. Almost as funny as when Kurt Angle tried opening the door in that Heyman/Lesnar match but ended up having to climb over it. :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Edge matches are awesome. Their build to Wrestlemania was decent enough and their build to Summerslam was great. The Wrestlemania match is one of the best main events for the show ever (top 10 and maybe top 5 imo), and the Hell in a Cell match is a classic. Their BL and JD matches were great as well, and their TLC match, despite being all over the place and very spotty was still fun at the very least (though the worst match of the series).

Taker/Show series was awesome as well. Just some hard-hitting stuff in the No Mercy and Cyber Sunday matches. Probably two of Big Show's best matches, and I'd say the CS one is his best. It's best to pretend the SVS match doesn't exist.

RATINGS!:

Taker/Edge:
WM24- ****1/4
BL- ***3/4
JD- ***1/2
TLC- ***
SS- ****3/4

Taker/Show:
NM- ****
CS- ****1/4
SVS- I don't even remember the match well enough or what I rated it, but I remember it being shit compared to their other two matches.

Taker/Show also had a good match at No Way Out 2003 I'd put at ***1/4.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I still have the Taker/Edge HIAC match at *****

Edge bringing TLC elements into the match to negate Taker's "homefield advantage" was GOAT storytelling.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Since we're still on the topic of ladder matches, what was your first ladder match?

Mine was Edge/Christian vs Hardys for however much amount of money it was.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ramon/HBK II @ Summerslam 95. My first ever PPV.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Since we're still on the topic of ladder matches, what was your first ladder match?
> 
> Mine was Edge/Christian vs Hardys for however much amount of money it was.


I was at HBK/Razor WM 10. WM 10 was on my 11th birthday, March 20, 1994. I lived about 20 minutes from MSG. Awesome atmosphere. Lots of 'ooohs & aaahs.' So much fun. Perfect Birthday gift for an 11 year old mark.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The first ladder match I watched was in some DVD I was shown a few years ago. Don't remember it well but I think it was WCW and Chris Benoit was in it. The latter I'm sure about as his name came up on the screen and I instantly thought "it's that poor guy that killed his family and himself". It was probably against Jeff Jarrett since I also remember watching a JJ match right before it where he smashed a guitar over his opponent's head.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well SD kept me back from finishing the DVD. Just finished watching HHH/Rock. I have it at **** and that's being a tad bit generous. I'm more leaning towards ***3/4 but it has its moments to make up that extra quarter (who gives a shit bout a quarter star anyway?)

I'm watching Edge/Christian vs Hardys No Mercy '99 and holy shit the crowd is dead for this one. 

Oh yeah, I'm actually seeing this match for the first time since. Actually, I didn't really see it the first time. Does anyone remember a show WWE used to have that would come on really late on Saturday night? It would be on like probably 11 or 12, I don't know. It probably felt late to me because I was young at the time. Whatever. Anyway, it was a show where they would recap everything that happened in the week on RAW and SD. I guess they were doing a best of the year episode cause I remember watching two matches on it that night. Taker/Kane Inferno and the ladder match. 

I'm not so sure though which inferno match it was. It was the one where Kane got his hand burned (year?). So I'm not really sure if the show was a best of '99. Fuck it. My point is, anyone remember the name of the fucking show? lol. I've been trying for years now to see if anyone knows and so far, nothing.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My first ladder match was Trips/Rock from SS '98. Last time I rewatched it was when that ladder DVD came out in '07 or so but I think I had it at ***1/2.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My first Ladder Match was Trips/Rock as well. When I was younger I thought it was like the greatest match ever. Still love it, haven't seen it in years though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MSG's reaction to Hunter's victory =


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

First ladder match was Shawn/Razor at Wrestlemania X. I remember watching it with the family.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

First ladder match was WM X. Watched it live (on PPV) and didn't really get it at first but thought it was fun. I was only 10yrs old so I had no idea I was watching a classic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The first ladder match I watched was in some DVD I was shown a few years ago. Don't remember it well but I think it was WCW and Chris Benoit was in it. The latter I'm sure about as his name came up on the screen and I instantly thought "it's that poor guy that killed his family and himself". It was probably against Jeff Jarrett since I also remember watching a JJ match right before it where he smashed a guitar over his opponent's head.


Yep, Benoit vs Jarrett was the ladder match. Starrcade '99.

My first ladder match I do believe was Triangle Ladder match from WrestleMania '00/16. Despite being a fan of the sport since I was like 2..I really didn't order PPVs at all. Still don't, tbhayley.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Rumble season BOIIIS 

I rewatched the 2010 and 2011 Royal Rumble matches. 2010 was far too short IMO, but it's amazing to see how far guys like Ziggler, Henry, and CM Punk have come in 2 years and how far down guys like Ted Dibiase and Drew McIntyre have fallen. Also, holy shit has the WWE bought in a whole new influx of new talent ever since. 2 years ago, Michaels, Undertaker, Batista, Edge, Jericho, Triple H were all over TV and featured in prominent roles, but that has changed so much. Good match, and the intro with CM Punk was effin' great. Not exactly a memorable Rumble. I hated how Edge won the Rumble though. It felt like such a dry victory. I wasn't exactly expecting a Taker/Shawn Rumble 2007 ending, but I was expecting something more then Edge just throwing Cena out in 2 minutes. Cena/Edge should've had a solid 6-10 minute match at the end of the Rumble to build up more drama, but other then that, decent Rumble.

As for the 2011 Rumble, I remember HATING it at time, and fucking hated that Del Rio won the Rumble, but I've warmed up to it. It was one of those matches that you hate watching live on PPV, but a couple years later you end up enjoying it. The first half of the Rumble was FANTASTICALLY booked, but the 2nd half, after all the Nexus elimination it really cooled off. Kane as the 40th entrant was really underwhelming at the time, but how can you have your expectations so low after Edge used the fucking Killswitch to win his title match earlier in the night? Punk was great in the match. Also, I fucking hated that Santino was the runner up fpalm

I'll give the 2012 Rumble match a miss for now. I don't think I'll like it more then I did when I watched it live right now anyway :lmao

So in retrospect: 

2010 Royal Rumble Match: ★★★¾ 
2011 Royal Rumble Match: ★★★¼


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'll have re-watch the past rumbles, but I liked the '94 one. My people of Providence chanting "Whoop There It Is" when Mabel came out :lol.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I remember legitimately thinking that Santino was going to win the 2011 Rumble. That was an awesome moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know the 2011 Rumble sucked when the last two were Del Rio & Santino. Fucking Riley.

Best part that wasn't Nexus was Sheamus no-selling Cena's protobomb and kicking Hornswoggle out of the ring.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I've got a lot to watch . 

1995 nitro's
1997 nitro's. 
fcw ambrose pack
callahan pack
kota pack

:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PACKS

That is so much goodness right there.  @ '97 Nitros + Sami Callihan.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Smackdown 04/12/2001 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy*

Triple H wastes no time beating on Jeff and hammering away on him in a corner. Triple H throws Jeff through the ropes then brings him back in as we see Stephanie watching from the back. Triple H whips Jeff but Jeff comes back with a head scissors followed by a dropkick and hits a second dropkick. Triple H regains control and goes for a Pedigree but Jeff counters with a take down and hits the double legdrop. Jeff dropkicks Triple H in the face then hits the count-along punches in a corner but Triple H shoves him off. Triple H whips Jeff into a corner but Jeff runs up the turnbuckles and connects with the Whisper in the Wind. Triple H throws Jeff under the ropes then goes after him but Jeff blocks Triple H and rams him into the steps. Jeff runs across the barricade and dives at Triple H but Triple H catches him into a slightly-botched powerslam. Triple H goes for a whip. Jeff sends him into the barrier then leaps off the apron but Triple H powerslams him. Triple H whips Jeff into the steps before rolling him back in the ring when Jeff desperately tries to fight back. Jeff goes for a whip but Triple H reverses it and connects with the high knee then continues assaulting him. Triple H chokes Jeff on the middle rope then beats him down some in a corner and chokes him with his boot. Triple H whips Jeff and slaps on a sleeperhold and Jeff begins to fade but counters the hold with a jawbreaker. Jeff follows up with a Russian legsweep and climbs to the top rope but Triple H pulls the referee into the ropes. Jeff straddles the turnbuckles and the referee reprimands Triple H for that but Triple H just shoves him down. Triple H goes up and sets up for a superplex … when Matt Hardy runs in and clobbers Triple H with a chair! Triple H is down as Jeff connects with the Swanton Bomb and gets the 1..2..3!!! **3/4 Awesome veteran heel vs. underdog title match. Triple H was brutal with his beat down and really made Jeff look good and i gotta give Jeff credit his dramatic selling and desperate energetic comebacks was really good here. This was a major upset at the time and a great Smackdown moment.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So including gifts I got for Christmas and things I have bought myself over the past 2 weeks, my list of goodies has grown to include the following:

Cage Match Set
Elimination Chamber Set
Best PPV Matches 2011
Ric Flair Definitive Collection
The Rock Set
Brock Lesnar Set
Rock/Cena Set
Ricky Steamboat Set
Ladder Match Set

On top of that I still have to watch the last 2 HHH/Flair matches and write something up for them for my review series and get that posted along with my 2012 year end review I planned on doing. Silvervision sure has got their money's worth out of me and I don't even think I'm finished buying yet.

Phew. That's a lot of wrestling lol.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Alim said:


> I remember legitimately thinking that Santino was going to win the 2011 Rumble. That was an awesome moment.


Santino is just awesome. I'm really pissed WWE didn't give us Santino vs Show on SD. That match would have been so damn entertaining not to mention there were gonna be the few moments where you thought he was going to win.

Instead they gave us Show vs Del Rio, as if anyone wanted to see that shit. I mean they gave away basically their big PPV story on free TV fpalm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wanted Ricardo Vs Big Show . Stupid WWE.

I'm confused with Del Rio... are they turning him face or what? Seems to turn face at TLC... runs over santa on Raw... gets WHC match against Show on SD. CONFUZZLED.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd be confused about Del Rio's status if I cared about him, which I don't so it doesn't bother me at all. Heel, face, he's still boring as shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah he's dull as fuck and I don't really give a shit, but its still a confusing situation lol. I'm expecting Show/Sheamus/Del Rio triple threat at the RR atm, unless they do Sheamus/Show for the title on the first SD of 2013 (they like to do big title matches now which is pretty cool), then have Del Rio face Show on his own at the RR. Either way I'm not looking forward to that . Give me Show/Sheamus LMS and I'll be happy.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Extreme Rules 2012 - Extreme Rules: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar*

Hands down, one of the most brutal, disturbing, beautyful and exciting matches I've ever seen. The drama, action, legitimacy and a raucous crowd who were in it from bell-to-bell, man this match had it all was all. I've heard a lot of outrage on forums about Cena winning here, but Lesnar DESTROYED him for nearly twenty minutes before Cena got the fluke win and Lesnar isn't seen as infallible as he was during his first run/debut. This was one of the most brutal flat out fights I've seen in a wrestling ring in a long time, some of these spots were VIOLENT and I sometimes wondered if this was a "SHOOT" because they looked so damn stiff. This was like an old school fight where two guys would stiff each other so hard they'd break bones, and to see that kind of a match worked in a WWE ring in itself was incredible, never mind all of the crazy heat and flat out hard work from both men, Cena's selling might of been the best i've ever seen from him but tbf I was more impressed with Lesnar not being in the WWE for what 8 years and for him to comeback and have a match like that FUCK ME!. ****3/4 MOTYC


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingCal said:


> Oh yeah he's dull as fuck and I don't really give a shit, but its still a confusing situation lol. I'm expecting Show/Sheamus/Del Rio triple threat at the RR atm, unless they do Sheamus/Show for the title on the first SD of 2013 (they like to do big title matches now which is pretty cool), then have Del Rio face Show on his own at the RR. Either way I'm not looking forward to that . *Give me Show/Sheamus LMS and I'll be happy.*


That has the potential to be a GREAT match. Damn. I'd love to see that.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I broke out my Legends Greatest Wrestlers of the 80s disc:

*U.S. Title Dog Collar Match: Greg Valentine (c) vs Roddy Piper. Starrcade '83. ★ ★ ★ 3/4 *​Talk about intense, stiff matches this one deserves recognition for being both. There was some great psychology on the use of the chain and a weapon and for certain spots as a partner. One such instance is the good spot where Piper used the chain to tie Valentine into the corner. These two went all out. 


The story-line going into the match was Piper returning from an ear injury caused by Valentine in a previous match. Valentine attacked the ear with the chain and the ring post, Piper sold being imbalanced pretty well and the blood near the ear really gave the feeling that Piper is legitimately on the verge of defeat. 


A lot of back and forth with Valentine's methodical and stiff offense, more wrestling based with knee drops, suplexes etc against the more brawling style of Piper with a lot of punches, but the story isn't furthered much by his offense but more by his ability to continue fighting through the assault on his ear. 


I didn't really care for the finish however. It lacked proper excitement and seemed anti-climatic for a match with so much going on and a title on the line but a good, fun match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*New Year's Revolution 2006:*

Ric Flair vs Edge - ★★
- Was doing well and going great in the first few minutes but then it ended way too soon when Lita interfered and took the Figure Four followed by Edge hitting Flair in the head with the briefcase. I can only hope their TLC match the next week will be better and I'm sure it will.

Trish Stratus vs Mickie James - ★★¾
- A pretty enjoyable match. Not as good as their Wrestlemania match but this one was fun and both did their job pretty well. Plus the teasing of Mickie finally turning to the dark side worked well with the storyline. And for once, the women's division finally has a storyline with development!

Jerry Lawler vs Gregory Helms - ★★
- To me, this is more comedy than anything else. And it really looked like both men were just playing around. Helms and his constant heelish facial expressions (plus going over to the announce table) and Lawler's victory comeback. Nothing special but not annoying although it could have done away with a couple of minutes.

Triple H vs Big Show - ★★★¾
- A very good match here. Big Show does a great job at selling the injured arm and HHH does some masterful work on it by constantly going back to re-injuring it. They get a lot of time to go with and HHH finally looks like an underdog after having been the odds for so long. He tries everything to take out the Big Show and win but in the end after a ref bump, he finally finds the perfect weapon with the sledgehammer to the head and the Pedigree. I enjoyed this one a lot.

Shelton Benjamin vs Viscera - ½★
- This is just painful. Shelton's "momma" is extremely annoying and so stereotypical, can be funny at times but she never shuts up either. And Shelton doing his very best to carry Viscera to a passable match but he fails because not only is his opponent pure crap but they also get too much time. At least, Shelton's losing streak is mercifully over here.

Bra and Panties Gauntlet - 0
- Next.

John Cena vs Carlito vs Kane vs Chris Masters vs Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels (Elimination Chamber) - ★★★★
- Not as good as the chamber match from 2005 but still pretty entertaining and I loved it. I got some gripes such as Kurt Angle being eliminated early while he was on fire suplexing everyone left and right and the stupid lack of logic in the ending when Masters and Carlito were supposed to work together in eliminating everyone yet Carlito betrays Masters only to get rolled up himself. That aside, a very entertaining match and that's what matters. Besides, Kurt Angle went to Smackdown the same week and became World Heavyweight Champion so not much for me to complain about. And I have to talk about the crowd here. They are _so_ anti-Cena, more than any crowd before them. The guy can't even get up from the mat without getting heavily booed and it gets to the point that they take _anyone_ over him including Chris Masters who got silent reaction and the thumbs down. I also noticed the first ever "Let's go Cena"/"Cena sucks" dual chant towards the end. And looking into Cena's eyes early on, you can see the frustration with the boos.

Edge vs John Cena - N/A
- Not really ratable but this is a classic moment and one that smarks were dying for back then. Edge finally cashes in the Money in the Bank contract and Cena's long title reign is over at last. Match is nothing more than two Spears followed by Edge's celebration and the crowd heavily cheering.

*Overall Rating:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (A very decent opening PPV to the year of 06. Some terrible shit between the best matches of the show and some okay undercard matches along with the two standout main matches. Also a memorable ending where Edge finally cements his place in the main event and would remain so until his retirement. Ultimately, the bad stuff took up too much time so that knocks this PPV down into the middle of the road. Another thing I wanna mention is the three hand signs with the thumb sticking out in the crowd. When they like something, it goes up and if not, it goes down. Pretty cool.)

--------------

Now I'm done with another PPV, it's time to finish my Orton/Cena series before new year!


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*The Iron Sheik vs Sgt. Slaughter. ★ ★ 3/4​*​Man Sarge broke out a gotdamn dropkick! What the hell? Anyway Sarge looked pretty strong early. Just doing whatever he wanted with Sheik. Fans are into the match, both guys are incredibly over. This is pretty good story telling by McMahon to have an Iranian wrestler and an Armed Forces wrestler in a program during those days. 


Back to the match. Sheik did some really good damage when the momentum changed. Nice story telling with the loaded boot being teased by Sheik and ultimately blocked by Sarge. The first kick with the loaded boot got the blood flowing and Sarge is in trouble, leaking profusely and being mocked, spat on and snot rocketed by Sheik. 


Who knows what the hell Sheik was doing when he came off the top with I guess a stomp, but in any event the miss swings the momentum back Sarge's way and pretty good comeback exchange ending with a big clothesline. Sarge then changes focus to removing Sheik's loaded boot, which ultimately leads to a DQ. 

The DQ finish was kinda meh but it was a decent match. Not one I'd watch again anytime soon however, not a bad performance by either guy, in fact I would say both were pretty good.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I hated all of RAW's New Years Revolution PPVs. They were only good for those chamber matches. The '06 Chamber wasn't very good as far as I am concered because there was no way Masters or Carlito were going to win. They did pretty good having them work together to eliminate the more experienced and superior competition but then Carlito loss on some Wile E. Coyote type shit and ruined it. Of course the bullshit of taking Angle out of the match hurt it fort me too. Angle had just feuded with HBK and Cena so it makes sense to have them interact more but the off screen politics was too obvious in this match. Just like the WWECW December To Dismember chamber where all the good faces were taken out so they wouldn't undercut the office's guy. It just seemed too safe a match for Cena to me, overcoming two midcard heels while a main event heel was eliminated early and a main event face was used to put over the two midcard heels. Kane was basically a non-entity lol


*Elimination Chamber 2006​*​★ ★ ★ 1/2


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

WWE Royal Rumble 2003 review.










- Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - Royal Rumble Qualification match.
Way too predictable, typical big-men powerhouse match, and seemed too much like a filler. ★★

- World Tag Team Champions William Regal & Lance Storm vs. The Dudley Boyz.
Pretty decent tag-team action I must say. Was kinda disappointed with the lack of tables being brought into play though. But yeah, match's nice for the time length it got. ★★1/4

- Torrie Wilson vs. Dawn Marie.
Yeah, um... next.

- World Heavyweight Champion Triple H vs. Scott Steiner.
Ugh, hated this match. All the coffee in the world can't keep you awake from this absolute borefest... Shame because I actually had some hopes for this match and it had been hyped for weeks. ★

- WWE Champion Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit.
Brilliant technical/submission wrestling match, just brilliant. Two of the greatest in-ring workers in history competing over the most coveted prize. This match consists of serious over-the-top-rope chemistry, perfect psychology, great selling, tremendous effort put by both men, etc. Always been extremely fond of this match. And the huge standing ovation that the latter received is one of my personal favorite moments. ★★★★★

- 2003 Royal Rumble match.
What I loved about this match was that it added the nice and unique "Raw vs. SmackDown" feel to the mix. Enjoyed this match from #1 to #30 as it's entertaining throughout. Had some fun moments in it, such as the development of the Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho rivalry, the temporary 'alliances' being reformed for the time being with Edge & Christian and The Hardys, Undertaker's return, the winner's rise to superstardom, etc. ★★★★

Overall, WWE Royal Rumble 2003 gets a 6/10.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Triple H/Steiner is a GOAT match. You don't need coffee to enjoy a train wreck like that lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I feel asleep watching it live back in the day. Woke up to hear Steiner's music play thinking he'd won the title .


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

H vs Steiner a match so bad its watchable for comedic value


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Piper vs Valentine :mark:

Btw, how the heck do you get this big ass stars? lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Christian Louboutin said:


> *WWE Extreme Rules 2012 - Extreme Rules: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar*
> 
> Hands down, one of the most brutal, disturbing, beautyful and exciting matches I've ever seen. The drama, action, legitimacy and a raucous crowd who were in it from bell-to-bell, man this match had it all was all. I've heard a lot of outrage on forums about Cena winning here, but Lesnar DESTROYED him for nearly twenty minutes before Cena got the fluke win and Lesnar isn't seen as infallible as he was during his first run/debut. This was one of the most brutal flat out fights I've seen in a wrestling ring in a long time, some of these spots were VIOLENT and I sometimes wondered if this was a "SHOOT" because they looked so damn stiff. This was like an old school fight where two guys would stiff each other so hard they'd break bones, and to see that kind of a match worked in a WWE ring in itself was incredible, never mind all of the crazy heat and flat out hard work from both men, Cena's selling might of been the best i've ever seen from him but tbf I was more impressed with Lesnar not being in the WWE for what 8 years and for him to comeback and have a match like that FUCK ME!. ****3/4 MOTYC


(Y) Watched this again myself recently for the first time since it was live and i couldn't agree more, Lesnar was just bloody fantastic, just so perfect the way he went about his buisness, i still go 'Whoa' when he picks up the poor ref lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Started the Best PPV Matches of '09-'10 last night. Set absolutely owns. So far...

Edge/Cena - Backlash '09 - ****1/2
Christian/Swagger - Backlash '09 - ****
Edge/Hardy - Judgement Day '09 - ***3/4
Mysterio/Jericho - The Bash '09 - ****1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Came across another Lawler match from his indy commitments. I figure this thread is open to almost any form of discussion that there's no harm sharing this here. Would personally recommend it to people who have seen and enjoy the Memphis style as well as more light hearted wrestling.

*Derrick King, Frankie Tucker & Jerry Lawler vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers, MCW (3/2/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hQqKYIXkgLk

Incredibly fun match recommended to anyone who's a fan of Memphis style wrestling or just light hearted wrestling in general. The heels weren't overly impressive in terms of presentation and threat but in a way I thought that added a bit to the match as they came off as incredibly egotistical and thinking they were far better than they were, and it made all their bumping and comedy spots at their expense all the more funnier. Lawler was really great and its nice to know he still looked good prior to the heart attack. He's got his trademark punches down to a tee and is also really good at working the crowd in the beginning when the heels offer their hands out of respect and he anticipates a sneak attack. LOVED how he shook the hand respectfully of one of the Hustlers before slapping him when the Hustler backed him into a corner and having slapped Derrick King twice when having him in the same position earlier. There was also this amazing moment where Lawler does some looney tunes esque spot where he goes after Pokerface, taps him on the back before levelling him with punches, felt like something you'd see out of Daffy Duck and I mean that as a compliment.

Derrick King's FIP segment was pretty good as well, a few nice bumps and classic STF traits such as him making a hot tag but the ref not seeing it as well as the heels taking cheap shots on the outside. Worth watching for the post match as well, as it develops from the finish and the pre-match stipulation and is a nicely done culmination of the match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

jonoaries said:


> I hated all of RAW's New Years Revolution PPVs. They were only good for those chamber matches. The '06 Chamber wasn't very good as far as I am concered because there was no way Masters or Carlito were going to win. They did pretty good having them work together to eliminate the more experienced and superior competition but then Carlito loss on some Wile E. Coyote type shit and ruined it. Of course the bullshit of taking Angle out of the match hurt it fort me too. Angle had just feuded with HBK and Cena so it makes sense to have them interact more but the off screen politics was too obvious in this match. Just like the WWECW December To Dismember chamber where all the good faces were taken out so they wouldn't undercut the office's guy. It just seemed too safe a match for Cena to me, overcoming two midcard heels while a main event heel was eliminated early and a main event face was used to put over the two midcard heels. Kane was basically a non-entity lol


I understand what you mean. Cena's boos were catching on real fast by that point while Angle got cheered so they almost kept them away from each other during that match and had Angle eliminated early in hopes of getting support in Cena's side... by also making him the last guy along with two midcard heels, one of which smarks hated too. That makes me think, maybe that's why the Angle WWE Championship pursuit was cut short and he got sent over to Smackdown. Good thing too as he got to wrestle Randy Orton before leaving. And Kane truly was invisible in that match for the most part. He gave Cena an awesome chokeslam but then Carlito and Masters dominated him and he got another early elimination after Angle.

That just makes me think this match felt like it ended early compared to the normal time for a chamber since there were two elimination fifteen minutes into it. But thankfully, it didn't taste as bad as the 2003 chamber where Goldberg eliminated four people in about 1 minute and got put down by a sledgehammer right after.



> Btw, how the heck do you get this big ass stars? lol


I just searched "star symbol" on google and it comes up instantly. And I also get the unique half/one fourth/three fourth symbols by searching "half symbol". The yahoo answers result that comes up first has all three below the link without even clicking it.

Gonna use it from now on instead of the lovely snowflakes.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

One thing that seriously pissed me off about the Cena/Brock match was the guy coming in to see Cenas wound at the start. Really annoyed me, it's an extreme rules match ffs.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH FUCK.

I've come down with a big fucking stomach virus that has rendered me to my bed for the next little while. It's better than last night and earlier today, when I was in constant horrific pain  

BUT SINCE I'M HERE ..... What Wrestlemania should I watch ? I got ALL of the ones I didn't have for Christmas (I-XVIII , XXIII-XXVI) and I need something to make me forget about the ridiculous amount of pain I'm in, SO THROW A NUMBER OUT


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

WWE Judgment Day 2006 review. 










- Tag Team Champions Joey Mercury & Johnny Nitro vs. Paul London & Brian Kendrick.
Much like the Judgment Day event like the year before this, M&M also open this one up. Very much preferred this one over the previous one. A well-worked tag team match-up to kick off the show! ★★★1/2

- Chris Benoit vs. Finlay.
Screw the two Sheamus vs. Tensai matches from a few months ago, this is how a legitimate brawling match-up is done! The former is the greatest ring-worker of all-time, and I've always thought the latter was a great wrestler in his own rights. Glad this match got over 20 minutes and wow, what a match it was! ★★★★

- Jillian Hall vs. Melina.
Skipped this one.

- Cruiserweight Champion Gregory Helms vs. Super Crazy. 
Too short for a cruiserweight bout, very limited high-flying. Overall it left me highly disappointed. Should've been given more time, then it'd be fun. ★

- Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry.
And here we are, the match of the olympics. Couldn't stand their first PPV encounter earlier that year at the Royal Rumble, which I still can't get over the fact that it main-evented over the actual Royal Rumble match itself. Having that said, I was hoping for a bit of a redemption after their awful match. Turned out to be pretty solid after all. Also liked the aftermath which saw Angle beating Henry with the steel chair plenty of times, giving him the Angle Slam on the announce table, then putting him through it. ★★1/2

- Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley - 2006 King of the Ring Finals.
Sweet match with both bringing the best out of each other. On a related note, I liked the King of the Ring archive highlights they were showing throughout the show. ★★3/4

- Undertaker vs. The Great Khali.
Expected this to be the worst match of the night when it was first announced due to the latter, arguably the worst wrestler of all-time, participating in it. But this match turned out to be a bit better than I'd originally thought it would be. An above-average giant vs. giant battle. ★★

- World Heavyweight Champion Rey Mysterio vs. JBL.
Extremely heated contest, totally captivating, good story-telling, etc. JBL was vicious with the harsh beatings, busting him open with blood flowing out of the mask, and trash-talking to the wife. Mysterio eventually overcame his offense by delivering the 619 followed by an Eddie Guerrero style Five-Star Frog Splash, to get the pinfall win. Quite possibly my favorite underdog 'overcoming the odds' victory. Overall, a fantastic SmackDown main-event match with a nice unpredictability factor. ★★★★

Overall, WWE Judgment Day 2006 gets an 8/10.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Best In The North Pole said:


> OH FUCK.
> 
> I've come down with a big fucking stomach virus that has rendered me to my bed for the next little while. It's better than last night and earlier today, when I was in constant horrific pain
> 
> BUT SINCE I'M HERE ..... What Wrestlemania should I watch ? I got ALL of the ones I didn't have for Christmas (I-XVIII , XXIII-XXVI) and I need something to make me forget about the ridiculous amount of pain I'm in, SO THROW A NUMBER OUT


24. A great show from top to bottom and one of my favorite PPVs ever.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah, I'd also go with WrestleMania 24. Loved it from start to finish, magnificent show! One of my favorite WrestleMania's, top three for sure.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Can't wait till I reach *Judgment Day 2006*. Really excited about it for some reason. Only seen Benoit/Finlay and it was a kick ass match. Sucks that Orton missed the PPV with that suspension, though.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Can't wait till I reach *Judgment Day 2006*. Really excited about it for some reason. Only seen Benoit/Finlay and it was a kick ass match. Sucks that Orton missed the PPV with that suspension, though.


On paper, Judgment Day 2006 looked... meh. Watched it and found it to go beyond my expectations. Majority of the matches on the card were unpredictable, surprising, crowd pleasing and fun. Highly recommend it.

And yeah, Benoit vs. Finlay was a top-notch. 

Funny you bring that Orton suspension up, because I've been wondering what program they had in store for him. Shame his SmackDown contract expired after that, enjoyed him the most there...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

jonoaries said:


> I broke out my Legends Greatest Wrestlers of the 80s disc:
> 
> *U.S. Title Dog Collar Match: Greg Valentine (c) vs Roddy Piper. Starrcade '83. ★ ★ ★ 3/4 *​Talk about intense, stiff matches this one deserves recognition for being both. There was some great psychology on the use of the chain and a weapon and for certain spots as a partner. One such instance is the good spot where Piper used the chain to tie Valentine into the corner. These two went all out.
> 
> ...


****1/2. 

It's pretty damn iconic, imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

VladMan2012 said:


> Funny you bring that Orton suspension up, because I've been wondering what program they had in store for him. Shame his SmackDown contract expired after that, enjoyed him the most there...


Looked like he was going to work with Kurt Angle. That's what he did when he returned even after the separation by the draft (thank God!) and that's how he was written off after WM22. Or maybe he was going to further wrestle Rey Mysterio in a one-on-one program since that's the match they had right after WM22.

Makes me laugh that his suspension was two months because of his *behavior*. Damn, what an asshole he must have been backstage to get suspended. Funny thing is, most reports say that he's very mellow now. All that weed and the stop of steroid and painkiller abuse must have relaxed him heavily!


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Looked like he was going to work with Kurt Angle. That's what he did when he returned even after the separation by the draft (thank God!) and that's how he was written off after WM22. Or maybe he was going to further wrestle Rey Mysterio in a one-on-one program since that's the match they had right after WM22.
> 
> Makes me laugh that his suspension was two months because of his *behavior*. Damn, what an asshole he must have been backstage to get suspended. Funny thing is, most reports say that he's very mellow now. All that weed and the stop of steroid and painkiller abuse must have relaxed him heavily!


True true true, all very true. 

And hot damn, I miss his "Legend Killer" run. My favorite arrogant, cocky heel character ever. Would've loved to see that Orton in a "Legend vs. Legend Killer" program with Rocky, that feud would've worked in so many ways imaginable.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Orton vs. Austin would have been great as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ORTON

Breaks my heart knowing he's a piece of trash who isn't worth the time of day to watch nowadays. From 2004 - 2011 he was my hero. I miss the Age of Orton days.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wasn't much of a fan post-Summerslam 04.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I loved face Randall as a young lad. His awful over-excited face reactions smiling and blowing kisses. Have you seen his entrance at Survivor Series '04? Flailing away for the dames. It's quite the sight.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You mean the twirling around in circles like a chicken with its head cut off while doing his pose and smiling like a goofy 12-year-old?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

100% YES.

Oh, that face Randal.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> You mean the twirling around in circles like a chicken with its head cut off while doing his pose and smiling like a goofy 12-year-old?


It was horrible. He was trying too hard, almost like he was mocking faces. I liked him then though (in ring), I didn't really start disliking Randy as a performer until 2009 when he transformed into "The viper" and the super pushes began.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

After 2005 i've only liked Orton again during his run with Edge, early 2009 and shortly after his face turn in 2010. I didn't like his rehash of the "legend killer" gimmick and his "age of orton" gimmick bored me to death.

Nowadays i think he's bland, don't enjoy his matches and unless we can go back in time to early 2009 i'm not looking forward to the potential heel turn.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Randall beat my hero Chris Benoit for the WHC in his home country back when I was young and "it was still real to me dammit", so I hated him from the get go.

Put's on entertaining matches, but that's about it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Orton was fucking awesome in 2006 on SmackDown. Then he was sent to Raw where he was saddled with Edge and made to be DX's bitch. Then he had a good 07 before randomly turning into a drone when winning the title. Seriously, it's like the moment he started cutting those 'I ended the CAREERZ of Shawn Michaels and RVD' promos is when he started losing his personality. That's also when Vince decided he'd be ready for the push he didn't get opposite HHH in 2005. In some of his promos in 2006 he's such a funny, energetic, cocky asshole that it looks like a completely different human being to 'I'm da viper guiz. APEX PREDATOR.' 

I think he's always typically been a good worker. Well he's ranged between Very Good-Good-Passable, anyway. His 'HE'S GOING TO *THAT PLACE*' moments are sometimes eye-gouging, though, and I've seen matches where he needed to be pretty much completely carried. I remember the CM Punk match at WM27 being literally CM Punk working a good match on his own while Orton just played the Not Bad Foil.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked WrestleMania 27's match only b/c it was 99% Punk :lmao

Orton once rocked some quality face expressions. I know it sounds impossible, but I'm telling you, he did.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton's character could be a lot better if he started having conversations with the voices in his head.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't happen. WWE will be accused of ripping off TNA again b/c Jeff Hardy has his INNER THOUGHTS already.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We wouldn't have to hear the voices, just Orton's response to them .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then they would be ripping off a Chikara gimmick from the first 6 months of the year. I call shenanigans x2. :hmm:

On the other hand, droll Orton conversations talking to himself though does have QUITE an appeal.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Retired Orton is the best Orton.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ORTON discussions. FUCK YES!

It really feels like two different individuals when I look at "fat Randy"/Legend Killer with more hair, less tattoos and more energy with the cockiest smirk ever then compare it to the skinny bald head with the tattooed up arms and super monotone promos. He's always been a great wrestler, though. He's extremely charismatic too which is why he was handpicked into Evolution from the beginning and he was pretty good at cutting promos back in 04-06. Somewhere along the line, this Viper shit killed his personality and now we got motherfuckers claiming he has zero charisma.

With that said, I command him for how well he transitioned from the Legend Killer to the Viper. It went smoothly and he slowly changed from being ripped to skinnier with less hair.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's dead to me now. Plus his consistency is almost his downfall. He's so consistent, it's formulaic. Nothing changes in his matches. I don't remember the last match from him I thought was great. KANE brought out fun matches vs him this year, but probably vs Christian is where I have to go.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just had a thought... maybe Orton IS having discussions with the voices in his head already. Those dull as shit promos he does!

Voices: What's your name again?

Orton: My. Name. Is. Randy. Orton. (he talks slowly because he's annoyed that they keep asking him the same thing over and over)

Voices: And uhhh... what are you exactly?

Orton: I. Am. The. Apex. Predator. Of. The. W.W.E.

Voices: Oh how nice. So, what you got planned for tonight?

Orton: I. Will. R.K.O. Someone. Because. I. Can.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've heard that he'll return from this little injury as a heel, so maybe there is our hope. Just want him to ditch this Viper shit and get back his energy when cutting promos. "My name...... is Randy Orton" is just terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Need more "GET A LOOK AT GREATNESS" promos for me to have any faith again.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi, I'm going to review Money in the Bank 2011. 

Smackdown Money in the Bank Match - ****

Divas Title Match - DUD

Mark Henry vs. Big Show - *

RAW Money in the Bank Ladder Match - ***1/2

Randy Orton vs. Christian - ****

CM Punk vs. John Cena - *****

Overall - very strong 8/10

Probably my favorite PPV of this era.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Boooo at only * for Show/Henry. Not as good as their other PPV matches that year, but still a solid encounter . I miss Henry . Zydrunas Savickas Vs Henry for WM please!


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Punk/Cena MITB ****1/4. SummerSlam too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Henry/Show one star? That's a solid *** match. 

Anyway, as for Orton. I don't know what happened. I think he's at that point where all he's good for is walking through the curtain and getting a pop. Anyone else remember 2010 Orton? The guy's theme would play and the crowd would just cheer over the damn thing to the point where you didn't even hear the song anymore. The thing is 2010, did nothing. 

It's really how funny how last year he was probably one of the best workers in the company delivering some strong MOTYC with Christian and this year he's just been absolutely irrelevant. I mean i thought his program with Kane was good. I enjoyed their match at Extreme Rules. He's also had some good matches with Ziggler.

But, I don't know, this hasn't been a good year for him at all. Maybe he just did way too much in 2009, God alone knows what he did in 2010 to get DEM POPS and 2011 was another great year for him. Maybe, we just expected too much. Orton's at the stage where, I guess, he doesn't need to do much. Randy Orton has now become a brand.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton needs direction. Ever since his feud with Mark Henry ended, he's just been put in those pointless "feuds" that start over absolutely nothing. He had a Survivor Series 5-on-5 match with Wade Barrett last year and there was not even an explanation as to why. Then they had them wrestle almost weekly on Raw, Smackdown and PPV until he took a month off at the start of the year for some personal shit. He then came back and got a concussion before Elimination Chamber and then he had that stupid Kane feud over a handshake. He looked like he was going to have another direction with the Jericho feud before both got suspended. Since his return, he's done absolutely fuck-all, though. Other than wrestling Barrett, Ziggler and Del Rio in random matches that is.

Really hope next year will be something better for him. Orton's lack of direction is just one of many reasons why 2012 is my #1 contender for the worst year in WWE history.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I really don't know what's happened to Orton. He was a somewhat charismatic guy back in 2004. I honestly think he's regressed in every single department since then. Less charismatic, worse look, predictable matches, deteriorating mic skills, bad booking. I don't know whether that's down to the WWE, Orton or just circumstance, but for a guy that's cemented as a top star and quality worker, he sure has a lot working against him.

A gimmick change wouldn't hurt. Why can't WWE ever pull off a babyface? They take the most over heels and make them into unbearable faces (Orton, Punk, Miz).


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I really don't want to get into an argument over whether or not 2012 is the worst year, especially when there was a year called two thousand and fucking nine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2009 was mostly awesome. Just Raw that blew for the most part.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> 2009 was mostly awesome. Just Raw that blew for the most part.


Of course it's a well known fact that SD was awesome in 2009 while RAW was total balls. 

2012 both RAW and SD were good imo. I also found that SD really stepped up their game when they started the whole Big Show/Sheamus storyline.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton's biggest problem was nailed by *Choke2Death*, he hasn't really been in a legitimate feud since his big time feud with Mark Henry. Orton at the moment has no direction with his character, and I feel that is hurting my investment in his matches recently as he just seems like another one of the bland guys that WWE is throwing at us lately.

I was talking to my friend about Orton the other day and we got into a very interesting discussion. He pointed out the fact that it seemed like Randy's position with the company hadn't changed at all since he won the belt the first time, and in terms of "getting over" , Orton had been given more world titles undeservedly than any other champion in history. As an Orton fan, I'd actually come out and agree with this statement wholeheartedly. 

Randy's in-ring work has become more consistent now, but his character has really been suffering since he changed up his look and his theme song (his BETTER one  ) in 2008. Randy has never really had that big "OMG MADE" moment like a killer promo or that one big ******* match to make him an all time great, which is why sadly he'll be stuck a few tiers below (despite what WWE may tell you) when it's all said and done.

Orton's almost like a poor-man's HBK in a sense that when he stopped incorporating his real life tendencies into his work (I.E. being a cocky asshole who believed he could sleep with any woman, beat anybody, be on top of the world, etc) he became stagnant as a character, and to try to build ORTON of all people into a serious "viper" , an individual who dissects people.... Just never ever seemed believeable to me. 

For the record, I think Orton works MUCH better as a face with his current gimmick.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Let's just point to the elephant in the room - Orton needs to turn heel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching the 2012 RR Match since I got it on Bluray, and while watching it I came up with an idea for a RR video I wanna make. Unfortunately I would need to watch HHH/Steiner for part of it :|.

The amount of nobodies and jobbers that enter the RR match in the early going is insane. Miz, Riley, Truth, Santino, Kidd, Epico, Primo, Ricardo (though I did mark for his appearance), Kofi, Khali, Jinder Mahawful... urgh. I think the only people worth a damn that entered during that time were Cody and Foley. No wonder I'm not a fan of the match .


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Got a chance to watch Punk's DVD finally. The documentary was as good as people made it out to be. Very in-depth stuff about his rise to stardom in WWE, and all the backstage struggles that came with it. You also find out a lot about Punk as a person and his lifestyle outside the ring. A must watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Punk/Cena MITB ****1/4. SummerSlam too.


OH MY GOD. I didn't know there was anyone else besides me & Seabs who don't think the MITB match is the GOAT. I haven't seen it since it aired but I went **** 1/4 as well, but we'll see what happens on a rewatch. Couldn't see me going higher than **** 1/2.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> OH MY GOD. I didn't know there was anyone else besides me & Seabs who don't think the MITB match is the GOAT. I haven't seen it since it aired but I went **** 1/4 as well, but we'll see what happens on a rewatch. Couldn't see me going higher than **** 1/2.


People call that botchfest GOAT?

I have the match at 5 stars but honestly, it's a match I'm scared to re-watch cause I know that 5 star rating would not remain the same. I haven't seen it since and I don't think I plan on. Well I've attempted to re-watch it but I always take it off after 5 minutes.

Tbh, the Cena/Punk match I find to be the most overrated is the one at NOC. To me it was, same shit different night. Cena/Punk have told all the stories they could possibly tell. Wait, the only thing that's more overrated than NOC is their finisher fest of a match on RAW last year.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Speaking on the topic of Randy Orton:






"Follow the IC Champ, we're going for a walk"


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punter said:


> Speaking on the topic of Randy Orton:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Classic!

I saw it for the first time 2 years ago when I downloaded a 2004 RAW and PPV pack. The promo by itself is fantastic but when you know the events leading up to it, damn! Then it really sinks in. Orton was HUGE in from the end of '03 (when Legend Killer all started) to '04. I haven't seen his '05 work but I found his '6 work to be great as well. Hey, when Orton got drafted to RAW in '06 didn't he debut as babyface?


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2005​*​
--*Shawn Michaels vs Edge ★ ★ 3/4*
Somebody interrupting an entrance, awesome start. This match for some reason feels like its taking place in 1995 instead of 2005, its got an old school feel to it. Its pretty slow paced, Edge got in a lot of offense early, some of which was fairly basic but nice. Edge-O-Matic on the floor and hurricanrana counter into a powerbomb by Edge.. HBK busting out the Polish Hammer during his comeback.. nice move there. 


Edge hits 2 spears (one on the floor the other in the ring) but HBK kicks out (WHY?!?!?!?!). Later on, HBK fires up but the SCM is reversed into an electric chair drop (sloppy but okay counter). The Edgecution submission hold applied (man I haven't seen this move in ages), the finish comes with pinfall reversals and some cheap rope holding by Edge, not a bad finish. Pretty standard match here, glad Edge went over but 2 spears?! C'mon bruh that's ridiculous. I miss cheap heel finishes. 


--*Casket Match: Undertaker vs Heidenreich ★ ★ 3/4* I'm probably one of the biggest Undertaker marks of all time but I hate how formulaic Casket Match story lines are. The heel pretends that the casket is the scariest object ever and its usually waaaaay over-sold, I love the gimmick but hate how overused fear is in the story lines. I forgotten how Psycho Sid-ish Heidenreich used to be. Jesus I damn near thought he was Sid at first. Opening commentary over now. 

Undertaker busting out arm drags and hip tosses...I lol'd. This is way too close to an actual wrestling match early on as Undertaker schools Heidenreich with wrestling holds. Heidenreich's pitty pat jabs are also funny, I love the MMA gloves though, nice touch. Excellent triangle chokehold in the corner from Taker, man this surprising from an actual wrestling perspective. 


The match picked up after the run-ins and the action fine, a little formulaic with the heel run-in and the subsequent Kane appearance but not a bad contest overall. 


*WWE Championship: JBL (c) vs Big Show vs Kurt Angle ★ ★ 3/4 * I hate triple threat matches....I also hate Big Show but I do love me some Kurt Angle and JBL is probably the best heel of the last decade (2000-2010) and I haven't seen this match in awhile so I'll be open minded but much wasn't expected. 


WHY IS JBL JUMPING IN THE AIR?! A cool spot with Show catching Bradshaw into a body slam. Big Show dominant as usual over the other two until another good spot of Show crashing through a table after being blasted in the head with a TV monitor...getting the a man out of the match for awhile is pretty standard however. 


Liking the JBL/Angle exchange. Angle is intense and Bradshaw is stiff meaning they both are within their element. But when Show returns he begins dominating again...until the double team Clothesline From Hell + sweep combo (good spot). Big Show is really getting over in this match...Chokeslamming and then spearing Bradshaw through the barricade. JBL is eliminated for the time being. Then the Cabinet run-in takes place to break up the Show/Angle action and they take out Show temporarily, JBL regains composure, CFH, JBL wins! 


Big Show looked extremely strong in this match (obviously to set up a rematch) but Angle seemed like fodder and an unnecessary component to the match. It was okay for what it was I suppose, had some good spots and never really bored me. 

*World Heavyweight Championship: Triple H (c) vs Randy Orton ★ ★ ★ 1/4 * Fairly standard match, started out quick paced with Orton in cortrol but after the RKO reversal spot it slowed down considerably as H took over. H working on the legs until Orton fires up and starts giving him the business. Nice combination in the corner and a beautiful powerslam from Orton. Orton's momentum stopped a few times only for him to regain control. A high knee (vintage H!) into a nearfall. 


"This match is better than I remember it being so far"...is what I was thinking while Orton was kicking H's ass in that corner but after the DDT reversal and the "cobwebs" in Randy's head got him moving sluggishly and looking off in the distance. Great body language and facials from Randy, really progressing the story-line of the match. HHH delivers a vicious clothesline which Randy sells like he got hit by a train, leads to a pedigree and that's a wrap. 


I have mixed feelings about this match. Taking it for what it was, it was enjoyable. Good psychology, well worked. HHH looked vicious but also incredibly lucky. However as a blowoff match to a feud of this length it sucks. Orton losing decisively was needed to end it but the freak "head injury" that takes Randy out and makes it easy for H to win almost sets up another match. 

*Royal Rumble Match ★ ★ ★ *
This joint starts out with a gotdamn bang! #1 Eddie Guerrero vs #2 Chris Benoit. Man these guys are great and they have a very fun and intense exchange, you almost hate that some other guy is coming out next...especially just as its getting good. 


Several jobbers come out, get decimated and eliminated. Notable names like Edge & Rey Mysterio come out. Rey comes in and quickly takes care of the Japanese problem only to get an epic backbreaker to break his momentum. The ring getting a little full with Jericho, Booker, and Benjamin all joining the party. The two groups split into SD vs Raw and collide to the roar of the crowd. Muhammad Hassan makes his entrance....gets jumped by everybody and tossed out in an epic Royal Rumble moment (**** rumble moment). 


Several more jobbers come out to no fanfare. Let me take this time to mention that I love Rene' Dupree's theme music, its actually pretty awesome even if the guy himself is total bunk. Shelton is tossed by Edge after leaping to the top rope...for no reason. Simon Dean is out there now....dude is funny. He doing squats lol...Eddie is tossed...BOOOOOOOOOO!!! The GOAT is next at #19 and rids us of the comedic jobber Simon Dean. Huge Eddie chants as he leaves (well deserved). 


Kurt Angle comes in and business picks up. He's destroying people! This is great...until he catches that SCM and over the top rope goes Angle (BOOOOOOOO!!!). I can't believe Rene is still in there and Angle is already out but thankfully for us Angle comes back and wrecks Shawn Michaels with some steel steps...the anger can be felt through the screen. Angle is intense as fuck (**** rumble moment)!


Viscera and Paul London come out, a side note is that Paul London looks like an anime character. John Cena (Ruck Fules John Cena) makes an appearance and comes in running into people (they called them shoulder tackles) and eliminates Big Vis single handed. Snitzky comes in and clothesline London who does a shooting star press into the floor and is out (***** star rumble moment). 


Batista makes his way to the ring and handles Snitzky then puts DAT powerbomb on Kane (YAAY). Shortly thereafter Jericho is tossed out (BOOOO) by Batista. Christian comes in after Cena. Cena "FUs" Kane out the ring (man Kane put over alotta guys). The Nature Boy (WOOOO) is our final contestant to enter. 


Maaaaaaan Batista puts that DAT spinebuster on Benoit and chucks him out (BOOOOOOOO!!!) Flair tries to eliminate Batista but couldn't summon enough strength to get Batista to move his feet. 

Final four time: Edge, Rey-Rey, John Boy & Batista (all future Rumble winners...go figure). Rey eats a spear and is eliminated (BOOOO!). Edge gets tossed and we are down to two!


Cena is a strong boy, he carried Batista on his shoulders for awhile catching elbows. Batista reverses, tries to powerbomb him and carelessly tumbles over the top eliminating them both. 


Chicanery ensures with RAW & SD referees being biased and picking their guy to win and here comes the boss, Vinnie Mac who immediately blows out his knees getting into the ring(LOL ***** star rumble moment). Cena & Batista trade throwing each other out. Vince restarts the match. Batista destroys Cena and Cena is out (YAAAAAAAY!!!)


The booking of this match made no sense at the end. The false controversy broke the momentum of the match unnecessarily. Everything else was done pretty well, of course I could complain about methods of elimination and how long certain guys were in there but I feel like it all worked out in the end. 
----------------

Well I haven't seen this event in a long time. I enjoyed it, nothing absolutely must see but there were some great rumble moments that enhanced the quality of that particular match.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

How the hell can you hate on Triple Threat matches? When done right, they can produce GOAT level results like Rock/Angle/Taker or Benoit/HHH/HBK or even Edge/HHH/Cena. HUGE fan of Triple Threat matches. They need to done much more in the WWE IMO, and I'm hoping to death that they have a title match at Mania be a triple threat for a change. They need to be much more fast paced is all, unlike Cena/Orton/HHH from WrestleMania 24.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

One guy always seems to just be in the match to take the fall. HHH/HBK/Benoit was an epic match but mostly because of the atmosphere and the finish. I'm sure HHH/Benoit or HBK/Benoit could have gotten that same pop and brought the same reaction. 


I'm more of a one on one match guy. Fatal four ways are cool but triple threat matches are mundane. I'm not about 3rd wheel feuds, and one guy is always the 3rd wheel.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Only because they book it to be. It doesn't have to be that way. I agree with you on the third wheel thing, Kurt Angle was the third wheel in Rock/Angle/Taker and HBK was the third wheel in HHH/Benoit/HBK, but it doesn't have to be like that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I LOVE that RR 05 triple threat. ***3/4 for it from me. Not the biggest fan of triple threats in general though, as for the most part they just have the same old boring formula of 2 guys fighting with one on the outside for a stupid amount of time after taking a move that they would normally get right up from in a singles match. Then the guy on the outside comes in, someone else gets taken out, leaving a different pairing in the ring to wrestling. Rinse and repeat until the finishing stretch.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Of course, it helps that the first WrestleMania main-event I ever watched was HHH/HBK/Benoit as well 8*D

I'm assuming my opinion would differ greatly as well had it not have been the first high profile match I ever watched.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't like three-ways either. Some are done all right, like the Trip/Edge/Benoit match on 11/04 Raw was a funnish spotfest sort of match with all three guys usually in the ring, the Trip/Angle/Rock match from 6/00 Raw was basically a contest of who can do a better job beating the shit out of Kurt Angle, the WMXX and Survivor Series 09 main events had guys wiped out with the announce table, etc. A lot of them, though, are so shitty with their 'I roll out, you roll in' stuff and so much of it looks too contrived.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

jonoaries said:


> One guy always seems to just be in the match to take the fall. HHH/HBK/Benoit was an epic match but mostly because of the atmosphere and the finish. I'm sure HHH/Benoit or HBK/Benoit could have gotten that same pop and brought the same reaction.


Except no one really was the third wheel in that match. HHH was the champion and HBK was feuding with him for months prior. And then you have Benoit who won the Rumble.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Triple threat matches are fun. It's the fatal four ways that can be a big pile of overbooked shit. 

Anyway, I re-watched Taker/HBK WM 25 and well it's no longer my fave match and it's no longer a 5 star match 

I really didn't like it on this second watch. Too much of a finisher fest.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I've watched Michaels/Taker from Mania 25 several times and sat through it just fine. Still a ****3/4

I found it really difficult to sit through Taker/HHH HIAC though. That shit was so boring to sit back and watch through.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Punter said:


> I found it really difficult to sit through Taker/HHH HIAC though. That shit was so boring to sit back and watch through.


I agree. I don't think I've ever seen that match in it's entirety, not sure why. It's slow as hell, but if I can sit through Diesel/Bret, this should be easy but no.

EDIT: I thought it said *Taker/HBK*, not Taker/HHH. My statement above is in regards to Taker/HBK HIAC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still love HHH/Taker HIAC. Just a wonderful match with a great story. Didn't hold up as MOTY on my most recent watch, but its still the 2nd best match for 2012.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

The whole backbone to that match is mostly drama, and once your not watching it live, it doesn't really have the same effect. Far too many rest spots for my liking and just overall too slow paced. Had that match been shortened by 5-7 minutes, I think I would've liked it much more. Still a great match, don't get me wrong, and Top 5 in 2012 for sure, but I don't think I ever want to sit through it again after I recently rewatched it. 

What is your MOTY KingCal?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I generally don't go back and watch matches.
The initial experience while watching a match is important to me and i don't think you can take that away when judging a match.

I also rarely watch big matches that i already know the results of, going into a match knowing a wrestler will survive and go on to win really ruins the experience.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My MOTY is Bryan/Punk OTL.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ah fuck it! My MOTY is Ambrose/Regal II. I don't care if it was from FCW lol.

I have seen Bryan/Punk about 3 times now and I always get bored halfway into it. Not my cup of tea. 

As for HHH/Taker, meh. I'm sick and tired of stating why I don't think it's MOTY. 

Btw, Diesel/Bret is awesome!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Unpopular opinion, but mine is Shield/Ryback & Hell No. I don't give a fuck. I was watching that match while I was out of my seat for 10 whole minutes, and ever since then I loved it even more. Rewatched that shit 10 times and never gets old. Fricking love that match. That match was my type of match. Right guys went over, amazing and well placed spots that made sense, and a good story told in the match.

I have it at ****3/4 and my opinion hasn't budged since.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

my MOTY is Taker/HHH with Cena/Lesnar being a close 2nd.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ground Zero: Taker/HBK: ***3/4

Bad Blood Taker/HBK (HIAC): *****

Royal Rumble '98: Taker/HBK (Casket Match): ***1/2

Wrestlemania 25: Taker/HBK: *****

Wrestlemania 26: Taker/HBK: ****3/4

They have amazing chemistry with eachother.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My matches of the year:

1. Punk/Bryan - OTL - ****3/4
2. Taker/Trips - WM - ****1/2
3. Shield vs Hell No/Ryback - TLC - ****1/2
4. Punk/Jericho - WM - ****1/2
5. Lesnar/Cena - ER - ****1/2


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

late response, but I just wasn't entertained by Mark Henry vs. Big Show. Sure, I guess it was as good as it could've been but they're just too slow and sluggish for me. 

Also, Punk vs. Cena MITB was perfect to me. The buildup, the drama, storytelling, atmosphere, AMAZING crowd, match quality, memorable ending, and the feeling that a lot was on the line. I had no complaints with this match.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd also like to add that Punk/Cena usually have a really good to great match every time, in my opinion. I don't see why so many people are sick of them after only having like 3 or 4 PPV matches and about one I can remember from Raw. That's nothing. I just feel that they have excellent chemistry. But the main event they had at MITB had everything I want in a wrestling match. It actually made the WWE title look important on that night, and there was finally a compelling story that kept you guessing. And lets not forget, CM Punk took a lot of risks during that summer. It's what got me into wrestling again after a brief hiatus from watching. 

I'd also mention that I find Undertaker vs. Triple H at WM 28 to be one of the most overrated matches of this generation. I just don't think it's as special of a match as people are making it out to be. For one thing, it's supposed to be a Hell in a Cell match. But lets not kid ourselves, it isn't one. It was obviously a gimmick to rouse people's interest in the show (and fair game to them for making tons of money doing it). The Cell was hardly utilized and the match could've been fine without it. It's still a good match but I simply hate how WWE insists on using the Cell just for it to sit there and look nice nowadays. That's not what made the match appealing in the first place.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My matches of the year:

HHH/Taker - ****3/4
Cena/Lesnar - ****3/4
Bryan/Punk - ****1/2
Shield/Ryback & Hell No - ****1/2
A few matches tied for 5th (Sheamus/Bryan, Cena/Punk, Jericho/Punk WM, etc)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The only time I want to see Punk/Cena again is when they are both in their 40s and by that time it has the aura of a Taker/Trips or Taker/HBK. For now, they've told every story that they could have told between these two.

I don't know. To me, once you've seen one Punk/Cena match, you've pretty much seen them all. Lock up, chain wrestling, botch here and there, finisher fest. They've only like 4 matches and I think they've burned this one out already. The thought of another Punk/Cena doesn't remotely interest me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Ground Zero: Taker/HBK: ***3/4
> 
> Bad Blood Taker/HBK (HIAC): *****
> 
> ...


My write-up on this is still coming I promise.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Ground Zero: Taker/HBK: ***3/4
> 
> Bad Blood Taker/HBK (HIAC): *****
> 
> ...


Fuck, Taker/HBK are seriously the greatest pairing of opponents in WWE history. My favorite WWE match of all time is the Bad Blood HIAC that match is a perfect match *****, I've got WM 25 at ****3/4 and WM 26 at *****

Everything those two do in the ring together is absolute gold. Plus they have my 2nd favorite royal rumble finishing stretch ever behind the benoit/show finishing stretch where benoit wins the rumble.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Punk/Cena don't have enough matches (on PPV) to bore me yet. I only really follow PPV matches to be honest. They actually have good chemistry, I haven't seen their NOC encounter yet but I have the DVD and will be seeing it soon. 


I also haven't seen Punk/Bryan MITB yet, I have that as well and just haven't decided to watch yet. 


As of right now I have Undertaker/HHH as MOTY, with Cena/Lesnar #2. I will probably have to watch Taker/HHH again before I can make it solid. My adopted nephew has forced me to watch Cena/Lesnar 1000 times! Lol


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

What you guys got for WWE PPV of the Year?

So far mine is Extreme Rules.


But considering I've only seen Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Extreme Rules, & Summerslam so far and only got 2 more I'm even interested in watching I'm asking opinions.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Mine's Extreme Rules as well with Wrestlemania following and TLC in third.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ER, MITB, WM, and TLC are really the only legit PPVs of the year imo.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Extreme Rules is PPV of the year for me. Top-down excellent show.

Wrestlemania is way down low. I'll probably put a PPV like HIAC above Mania tbh.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Mania was underwhelming honestly. I found every match on that card pretty underwhelming. 

1. Extreme Rules
2. TLC
3. Over Th Limit solely for Bryan/Punk and the Fatal 4-way
4. WrestleMania

^^Only 4 I really care about tbh.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone seen Regal vs David Hart Smith from Superstars 12.30.10?

Fantastic match. Just your typical Regal match with that mix of rough grappling blended together with top class psychology. David Hart was selling that knee to perfection! You ever watch a match and you're like "Okay but sell it damn good" Well it was one of those few matches (and usually these matches involve Regal) where the exact scenario that played out in my head, came to life. David Hart tried to do a northern lights suplex but only got a one count not because Regal kicked out but because the knee (which Regal was working on) gave out on him. That's just perfect psychology right there. Somebody damaged your knee, obviously it's gonna hurt like shit if you keep it bended like that, putting even more strain on it. The match went about 8 minutes, and I wish I could have seen it go more. But for 8 minutes, I couldn't have asked for more.

★★★1/2

Hooray for big stars lol.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Might have to give Taker/HHH from Mania another watch..


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Might have to give Taker/HHH from Mania another watch..


Good luck. It wasn't an easy task for me. My attention was thwarted several times to something else while watching that match.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

You not reckon it's a MOTY contender?


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Extreme Rules was my favorite PPV of the year, hands down. Three outstanding main-events in Sheamus vs. Bryan, Punk vs. Jericho and Cena vs. Lesnar. All in which were superior to the previous WrestleMania 28 matches.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> What you guys got for WWE PPV of the Year?
> 
> So far mine is Extreme Rules.
> 
> ...


Extreme Rules by far is the PPV of the year. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena was intense and brutal as fuck, CM Punk vs Chris Jericho for the WWE championship in a street fight was great and also better than their WrestleMania 28 match in my opinion, and Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan in a 2 out of 3 falls match for the World Heavyweight title was a fantastic match as well. Even Orton vs Kane was a great little brawl. That PPV pretty much blew WrestleMania 28 out of the water. Kinda like Backlash 2000 and WrestleMania 2000.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Extreme Rules yeah. Brock vs. Cena was a lot better than I even expected it to be. Punk vs. Jericho was better than their Mania match, and Bryan/Sheamus was a lot of fun. Everything else was pretty average for the most part. There was a pointless match with Ryback, a typical divas match I believe, and Cody vs. Big Show was atrocious. 

Wrestlemania just wasn't that great of a show in my opinion. They cram too much bullshit into Wrestlemania these days that ruins my enjoyment. For one, they always have some terrible music act performing. I understand the show being wrestling's super bowl and all, but that doesn't mean they have to duplicate the damn thing. Cody vs. Big Show, Randy vs. Kane, 18 second World Title match, boring divas match, meaningless/mediocre twelve man tag team match... most of the card failed to entertain me.

Only 3 good matches for me... and I'd only call one of them "really good".


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> You not reckon it's a MOTY contender?


Definitely a MOTY contender. Enjoyed the fuck out of it live. But on rewatch, I found it almost painful to sit through.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

NO! said:


> Extreme Rules yeah. Brock vs. Cena was a lot better than I even expected it to be. Punk vs. Jericho was better than their Mania match, and Bryan/Sheamus was a lot of fun. Everything else was pretty average for the most part. There was a pointless match with Ryback, a typical divas match I believe, and *Cody vs. Big Show was atrocious.
> *
> Wrestlemania just wasn't that great of a show in my opinion. They cram too much bullshit into Wrestlemania these days that ruins my enjoyment. For one, they always have some terrible music act performing. I understand the show being wrestling's super bowl and all, but that doesn't mean they have to duplicate the damn thing. Cody vs. Big Show, Randy vs. Kane, 18 second World Title match, boring divas match, meaningless/mediocre twelve man tag team match... most of the card failed to entertain me.
> 
> Only 3 good matches for me... and I'd only call one of them "really good".



:shocked:

Dude, go back and watch the match. It was pretty decent given its position on the card. Also Big Show's face at the end. Damn, in some alternate universe I;m pretty sure Show is a big time comedy actor. Oh wait, Knucklehead nvm.

But yeah, I don't understand what people expect from a PPV. It defies the laws of wrestling booking 101 to have 6 matches on a card and have all of them be **** matches. It goes against wrestling booking logic to do that.

Say you have 6 matches on the card. The opening match usually goes about 5-8 minutes, nothing much to talk about. It's just to get the crowd pumped up. The second match is also meh. The third match steps things up. The fourth match steps things up as well. The fifth match brings things down. And the main event delivers and sends the crowd home happy. There's lots of way to do it but it's just impossible to have every match be a ****+ match.

The fact that we got Sheamus/Bryan, Punk/Jericho and Lesnar/Cena is amazing. Not to mention you had Orton/Kane which I believe was the opener and a damn fine opener it was. Extreme Rules was a well booked PPV from top to bottom and I will call it a 5 star PPV and I would rank it with the likes of Summerslam 2002.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Chris Benoit vs MVP United States Championship Backlash 2007 ***1/2
Chris Benoit vs MVP US Championship Wrestlemania 23 2007 ***
"Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat IC Championship Wrestlemania 3 1987 ****1/2
The Rock vs Ken Shamrock IC Championship Royal Rumble 1998 ***
Undertaker vs Kane Wrestlemania XIV 1998 ***

The Benoit/MVP Wrestlemania match should have been longer. I was very surprised Benoit won with a flying headbutt as I was expecting MVP to kick out. The match took place after an 8 minute Khali/Kane match, which probably explains why the crowd took forever to show signs of life. Apparently people didn't give a shit about MVP at that time. I felt bad for his Wrestlemania "entrance of silence" debut. His Backlash EOS was understandable as the PPV took place in Atlanta, GA where Benoit lived. Benoit's accomplishments would be pissed away several months later. :no:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Extreme Rules was a damn good PPV. I didn't like the ending or think much of Punk/Jericho but I still think three matches delivered big time. The opening FCA, the WHC and the main event.

*Smackdown 13/1/2006*

Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - ★★★★
- Awesome match that had what their previous match lacked - TIME. This one goes over 20 minutes from bell to bell just excluding commercial time. They do a bit more chain wrestling on this one and it's pretty fun. Booker's interference in the end also went with the story and I liked seeing Benoit pull a page out of Eddie's book with the "pretending to be hurt" shtick. Not my favorite from their series but still a great match. When this is not even my favorite match between them, that shows you how great their chemistry is. Can't wait to give their No Holds Barred match another watch!

Battle Royal - ★★¼
- Nothing special but a pretty fun battle royal. The end with Mark Henry and Kurt Angle was also enjoyable to watch with Angle finally winning the World Title after almost three years of jobbing in title matches including the long streak of losing to John Cena repeatedly. Just an early look of how awesome Mizark can be. At least his greatness was witnessed by everyone last year when he finally got pushed and delivered!


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> :shocked:
> 
> Dude, go back and watch the match. It was pretty decent given its position on the card. Also Big Show's face at the end. Damn, in some alternate universe I;m pretty sure Show is a big time comedy actor. Oh wait, Knucklehead nvm.
> 
> ...


Trust me, I know where you're coming from. The difference between Extreme Rules and Summerslam '02 for me is that I thought highly of almost every match from Summerslam. I do look at the undercard stuff for what it is, and I just thought Extreme Rules wasn't perfect. Cody/Big Show didn't do anything for me. It is a watchable match but that's about it. On top of it, Big Show was just booked to look way ahead of Cody Rhodes... and I didn't see the point in that. They flip the titles back and forth between these two, cody wins it back with a fluke victory, then gets demolished after the match. He looked HORRIBLE during this feud and the matches really were nothing. And of course the title looked meaningless as well.

Whereas... Summerslam had Angle and Mysterio, Edge and Eddie, even the tag title match was pretty fun (even though it dragged)

Lets not forget Brodus Clay vs. Dolph Ziggler. While I actually enjoyed this match for the time it was given, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when you have 2 or 3 matches that are put together right there on the spot without buildup or anything that makes you actually care about who wins.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

I watched 50 greatest finishing moves.


Spoiler: #1



Stone Cold beat Undertaker. I had no doubt Undertaker would win; but I guess not. I was surprised, and don't quite agree with it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Extreme Rules was a damn good PPV. I didn't like the ending or think much of Punk/Jericho but I still think three matches delivered big time. The opening FCA, the WHC and the main event.
> 
> *Smackdown 13/1/2006*
> 
> ...


I remember having a good time watching that battle royal the night it happened. 

And that Benoit/Orton match was pretty damn good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PPV of the year? From WWE only? Extreme Rules. Whole card is great. Only match that was skippable was the divas match. Ryback's squash was a squash. No harm no foul. Rest was awesome.

If we're grouping in EVERY wrestling PPV out there, then NJPW King of Pro Wrestling wins for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown January 13th 2006*

Last week, Benoit got a DQ win over Orton who replaced Booker T in the best of 7 series for the US Title. That win for Benoit made it 3-3, so this would be the final match. If Benoit wins, he gets the US title. If Orton wins, then BOOKER wins the US Title.

Should also be noted that Batista gave up the WHC at the start of the show after Henry injured him. Orton wanted in the Battle Royal to get his shot at the WHC, but was forced into this match as he has already agreed to replace Booker. So Benoit would be fighting for the US Title, while Orton would be fighting for pride and to prove that he is one of the best, and no doubt to gain momentum going into the Royal Rumble which is a couple of weeks away.

They spend the opening few minutes just fighting for control, and you really get the sense that both men are doing their absolute best to fight for that position. This is an important match for both men, and for different reasons; Benoit wants the title, Orton simply wants the win for bragging rights (and no doubt to prove to Teddy Long that he should have been in the WHC Battle Royal).

Benoit ends up on the outside, and sees Booker T coming towards him with the crutch. So what does he do? Channels Eddie Guerrero of course! He holds his knee and tells the referee that Booker hit him with the crutch, and Booker gets sent to the back! Smart by Benoit to get any outside party sent away so he can be fully focuses on Orton, who he knows CAN beat him, as he proved in 04 for the WHC.

With Booker gone, and a commercial break, nothing has really changed in the ring. Both guys are still fighting for control, and its probably done in a way that Andy would describe as "gritty", so you know its probably good lol.

Benoit turns things up a notch when he gets tired of fighting with Orton on the mat, and just chops the fuck out of him. Orton's facial expressions when he gets chopped are just priceless too, which makes his attempt to stop Benoit even more meaningful.

Even with Orton in control of the match, he has to fight with Benoit every step of the way to keep control, and sometimes very nearly loses it. Benoit has to be right up there as one of, if not THE best opponent Orton has ever had. Its basically a lite version of the Benoit/Regal and Benoit/Finlay matches, so I think its safe to assume that everyone on here will pretty much adore this match.

Benoit's big "comeback" spot is awesome too, something that you probably wouldn't see from ANYONE else; its a headbutt while both guys are on the ropes, and Orton gets headbutted off the ropes to the guardrail. Its probably one of the best comeback spots I have seen lol.

I'm struggling to think of something to say now lol, without going all play by play . I guess its best to just reiterate what I have already said; this match is a fight. You can tell who has control of the match, but there is never a part of the match where someone is completely dominating as the other guy is constantly trying to fight out of whatever hold he is in. Screw calling this a lite version of Benoit/Regal and Benoit/Finlay, this is pretty much the full thing now.

I think highly of a small handful of Orton matches, but I don't think I have seen anything quite like this from him before, even with Benoit. Most likely Orton's best singles match, and probably his best match singles or otherwise.

My ONLY complaint with this match is the ref bump and interference. Orlando showing up was pointless (like always, even when he has a match), and with the performance Orton put on for this match, I think it would have been better for him to win this one clean rather than with Booker's help. Everything else before that though was fan-fucking-tastic. This is going to make my top 50.

*Rating: ****1/2*


*20 Man Battle Royal - WHC - Smackdown January 13th 2006*

As mentioned in my previous review, Batista had vacated the WHC earlier in the night, so this match was set up to decide a new World Champion. 19 men enter the ring, leaving one more, and its... KURT ANGLE! Angle was a Raw superstar, but had jumped to SD apparently.

Love how this thing starts, with JBL telling the rest of the guys to "leave Angle to him". JBL has always thought of himself as the face of SD, so it made sense that he would want to take out the "Raw" superstar Angle. Unfortunately for JBL, Angle is fired up and quickly eliminates the Wrestling God! Vito is next to go, then the rest of the SD stars decide to gang up on Angle!

Typical battle royal stuff, with people fighting everyone and guys going over left and right. We then start to get a story between Angle and Henry, when Henry knees Angle in the back and sends him out of the ring (under the ropes), and then slams him through the announce table. With Angle out of the match, or so it seems, Henry is now considered the favourite alone with the young powerhouse Bobby Lashley.

Henry and Lashley go head to head while the rest of the superstars watch, which makes what is essentially a small face off in reality, something really big. Henry gets the better of Lashley, and continues to be the favourite to win the title now.

Final four is Henry, Mysterio, and MNM. MNM both get eliminated by Mysterio, who is fighting for his fallen friend Eddie. Once Rey eliminates MNM, he realises what stands before him, and so does the crowd. Some actually Royal Rumble matches don't capture the feel of this match when its down to the final two lol, which should give you an idea of how good this match is turning out to be.

Rey fights with everything he has got, 619'ing Henry over and over, but not being able to send him over the ropes. He goes all Benoit in 04 on Henry, trying to headlock him over the ropes, but the power of Henry sends Rey to the floor. New champion? Nope, ANGLE is still in this thing!

He's back up now, and pissed off. Angle is a fucking lunatic normally, but when he's pissed off? I wouldn't want to be Henry lol. But as pissed as he is, Henry is still a monster of a man, and his awesome power quickly comes into play.

They go back and forth in the ring for a little while, with Angle nearly eliminating Henry a couple of times, but Henry is still too strong, so Angle has to wear him down some more. Henry's powerbomb to Angle is markout worthy too. They don't take their time with this finish either, and in a lot of ways its similar to Benoit/Big Show in 04, with how they have plenty of time to really build to the smaller guy finally taking out the bigger, stronger opponent. Just like in 04, the smaller guy wins, and as such, Angle becomes the NEW WHC! The finish was almost fucked up though as Angle landed on the floor too .

Now this is a pretty great battle royal, right up there with the 2004 Raw one probably. The start is great, with Angle and JBL, then the story of Henry in the middle is really good, and the battle between the final two is better than most Royal Rumbles tbh. Yet another match to add to my ever growing list of matches that could make my list lol.

*Rating: ***3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Chris Benoit vs MVP United States Championship Backlash 2007 ***1/2
> Chris Benoit vs MVP US Championship Wrestlemania 23 2007 ***
> "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat IC Championship Wrestlemania 3 1987 ****1/2
> The Rock vs Ken Shamrock IC Championship Royal Rumble 1998 ***
> ...


I personally prefer their WrestleMania bout a ton more than the Backlash bout. MVP's control segments of using his brain to shock Benoit & everyone at WM was really good. It fit his capabilities and it meshed nicely with Benoit. Come Backlash the match went on too long and MVP's lack of overall skills were revealed. His workover segment sucked quite a bit of wind from my sails. Benoit's offense made it solid, but MVP really proved he needs to work those sub-10 minute matches to shine. I think there are a FEW exceptions with some TV matches vs Batista & Jeff Hardy in 2008.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3H34SEnsZI The music that starts at around 37 seconds... anyone know if I can get JUST the music on its own, or could someone maybe direct me to some music that sounds similar?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3H34SEnsZI The music that starts at around 37 seconds... anyone know if I can get JUST the music on its own, or could someone maybe direct me to some music that sounds similar?


Could get a converter program, or try this: http://www.listentoyoutube.com/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I could convert the video to audio myself no problem, but I want JUST the music that's in the background, not the entire audio with the voice over dude and RR audio and stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah, gotya, don't recognise it myself mate, good Rumble memories though!!!


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

After watching HHH/Undertaker again last night I personally don't think it is Match of the Year, but I think it is definitely a Match of the Year contender. 

It's an emotional match. You know you will probably NEVER see these two in the ring wrestling eachother again or anyone from the mid 90s WWE for that matter. Some great psychology all match and superb story telling, when it comes to that though you have two of the best in the ring going at it and even Shawn Michaels as referee, his reactions and expressions are priceless in the match, add to that a bit of JR's BBQ sauce and you have all the ingredients for a classic.

I just thought at times it was a little slow. Sure, they are 40+ year old men but the match they had the previous year I thought was a lot more paced (even though this match shits on it). I think a lot of people will hype the match up though with it being Undertaker/HHH with fucking HBK as referee, I mean come on, you're bound to!

Loved the Sweet Chin Music into the Pedigree spot, I really thought it was over then when watching live and thinking to myself, they're gonna screw this man, you just know it. Then he kicks out. Even after the second pedigree I thought it may of been over. Triple H's reactions at the end just before he's about to hit Taker with the sledgehammer but doesn't have anything left are superb, great story telling from him, Taker then gives him the tombstone for the win and land at 20-0. 

Ending is still emotional. The respect these three men not only have for eachother but for the fans and the business is staggering and I really hope after watching it live in the back, in the crowd or even at home that superstars and future superstars had learnt something from each three men. The embrace at the end is one of, if not the best Wrestlemania moments of all time.

****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingCal said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3H34SEnsZI The music that starts at around 37 seconds... anyone know if I can get JUST the music on its own, or could someone maybe direct me to some music that sounds similar?


Ah, that's an old NFL Films song. The Equalizer by Sam Spence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1b2CzlELs


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ah, that's an old NFL Films song. The Equalizer by Sam Spence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1b2CzlELs


I FUCKING LOVE YOU. HAVE MY BABIES. OR I'LL HAVE YOURS. WHICHEVER IS BETTER FOR YOU. SEX.

Thanks .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah yes. Undertaker vs Triple H from WrestleMania 28. I've lazed up on giving it a rewatch and I really, really should do it. It's like how Angle vs Benoit from Rumble '03 is for me. I don't love it or put it over AT ALL during conversations. I have to watch it to get sucked in. I'll see how both hold up. I wonder if I'll remain at the full 5 for Angle vs Benoit. I recall it not consisting much of Kurt's crap and was done about as perfectly as they intended it to be. Undertaker vs H might hold up. I know HBK overreacts but it never bothered me once. Blew away the crap from WM 27. Perhaps after Joe vs Kobashi I'll pop those in.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> I personally prefer their WrestleMania bout a ton more than the Backlash bout. MVP's control segments of using his brain to shock Benoit & everyone at WM was really good. It fit his capabilities and it meshed nicely with Benoit. Come Backlash the match went on too long and MVP's lack of overall skills were revealed. His workover segment sucked quite a bit of wind from my sails. Benoit's offense made it solid, but MVP really proved he needs to work those sub-10 minute matches to shine. I think there are a FEW exceptions with some TV matches vs Batista & Jeff Hardy in 2008.



I may give the Wrestlemania match another view, it's just the match should have been longer. I did like the fact, like you said, that MVP was out-smarting Benoit which makes me feel like I short changed the match. Going to re-watch it, followed by HBK/Sid Survivor Series '96.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Spookshow, you're avatar scares the shit out of me! Especially late in the night lol.

Anyway, I'm downloading an ECW 2006 and 2007 pack. Why? I'm bored and it's been a long while. Gonna re-watch the shows, this time with a "critical eye"

The 2006 pack is currently at 50% however, we had a power outage that lasted 2 hours and the 2007 pack doesn't wanna restart 

Anyone else get that problem with torrents? Like if you turn off the computer, you can't get it to start back downloading.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I only have problems with torrents if the site goes down. PWT kept stopping and starting yesterday for a couple of hours.

ECW 06: BIG SHOW. His epic title run. CM PUNK. Nothing spectacular, but he has some solid matches and gets over. BOB HOLLY. Cuts himself and the fans finally like him for a couple of weeks. And that's about the positives from ECW 06 that I remember. I'll be going through it at some point once I get to that point in my Raw 06 watch.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember loving Show/Flair from like the 2nd or 3rd ECW of '06.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

(Sharkboy)
It's from "An American Werewolf in London" and I'm glad it scares you. Just wait until I come up with an idea for my sig. :evil:


I don't know what i was thinking giving the Wrestlemania match three stars/snowflakes while giving their Backlash match three and a half.

Chris Benoit vs MVP US Championship Wrestlemania 23 2007 ****
Chris Benoit vs MVP US Championship Backlash 2007 ***


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

If I remember correctly, didn't WCW start to get "Entertaining" round 96 or was it 97? I'm thinking of downloading them all again and reliving my teens!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

While we're on the topic of music, I would really like to know the background piano music playing from 0:00 to 0:48 in this video if anyone knows. Will rep


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> I only have problems with torrents if the site goes down. PWT kept stopping and starting yesterday for a couple of hours.
> 
> ECW 06: BIG SHOW. His epic title run. CM PUNK. Nothing spectacular, but he has some solid matches and gets over. BOB HOLLY. Cuts himself and the fans finally like him for a couple of weeks. And that's about the positives from ECW 06 that I remember. I'll be going through it at some point once I get to that point in my Raw 06 watch.


I remember Holly cutting his back but I really didn't like Show's reign at all. I remember the night he won the title from RVD (Or was it the contract to face RVD) it was a ladder match I believe. And the fans were throwing garbage in the ring.

Oh yeah and I can't forget THE ZOMBIE!!! lol. I really wanna re-watch for Kevin Thorne (and Ariel). And last but not least, Extreme Strip Poker!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show's reign was awesome, plenty of fun to great matches with the shitty ECW guys and then talent like Flair, Kane and Taker. Was just a normal match (or "ECW rules" probably) when Show won the belt and Heyman turned on RVD and the fans threw shit at them. There's a gif floating around where Heyman gets belted with a beer .


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Big Show ECW title run was epic. Best thing he'd done in years. The Flair match was epic. I actually miss WWECW it wasn't a bad program it got a bad rap.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Damn, Show reign was so great? The most I recall is a Summerslam match with Sabu. Also Flair on ECW? Really can't remember that either. I remember DX (and I believe Cena as well) though.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Oh my, the match with Batista & Show in the Ham Ballroom is hilarious :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Random ratings:

Edge vs Ric Flair (Raw 16/1/2006) - ★★★¾
The Rock vs Booker T (SummerSlam 2001) - ★★★
Eddie Guerrero vs Rob Van Dam (Backlash 2002) - ★★★¼
Chris Benoit vs Sid Vicious (Souled Out 2000) - ★★★¼


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Oh my, the match with Batista & Show in the Ham Ballroom is hilarious :lmao


The crowd chants were amazing. "Change the channel *clapclapclapclapclap*" I love smarky ECW crowds. :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

That's irrelevant said:


> The crowd chants were amazing. "Change the channel *clapclapclapclapclap*" I love smarky ECW crowds. :lol


That was phenomenal.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

WWE Survivor Series 2003

I'm home for Christmas and out of all of my DVDs I remembered this one the least so I figured I would give it a watch. 


Sunday Night Heat​_
Cruiserweight Championship Match:​_
*Tajiri(c) vs. Jamie Noble*

This didn't even make it to the 5 minute mark but it was still fucking awesome. The crowd went crazy for Jamie Noble and he put on an incredible performance with the time he had. It really helped not having a clue how this would end and I'll admit that I got sucked into the match and the outcome. Great ending that has me strongly considering skipping the DVD and finding more matches between these two. Perfect match to be on the pre-show. 
*****

Survivor Series

_Survivor Series Elimination Match:_
*John Cena, HE WHO WILL NOT BE NAMED, Bradshaw, Hardcore Holly, and Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, A-Train, Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan, and Brock Lesnar*

Well if you have never seen Cena give an F-U/Attitude Adjustment to Big Show I suppose the ending would be shocking. Dated ending aside this was still very good. The booking of he falls really surprised, I didn't think Brock would tap to anyone. I liked how quick the falls came, it created this feeling that you never knew when someone was going to get eliminated. Good pacing and the dead weight in the match (and there was a good deal of it) had limited involvement. HE WHO WILL NOT BE NAMED was fantastic in the match. His selling during the control segment was fantastic and he really had the crowd behind him. I can't say this was anything too amazing but it got decent time and was very entertaining.
****1/4 *
_

WWE Women's Championship Match:_
*Molly Holly(c) vs. Lita*

Pretty standard affair. Miles ahead of what we see from women now in the WWE but this still wasn't anything great. I mean you have Molly Holly work a control segment for a good portion of the match. Lita makes her comeback, we get a few minutes of back and forth, and then we see a rather unoriginal ending. There were a few nice looking moves that helped grab my attention and also let me know that there might be more things worth seeing. Neither good nor bad.
**3/4*


_Ambulance Match:_
*Shane McMahon vs. Kane*

This isn't what I expected at all. Kane was being built as a monster at this time and I expected to see Shane go in and play a huge underdog. I didn't feel like Shane was the underdog as he got in a ton of offense. It appears that Kane was getting established as a monster by being able to get his ass kicked and not seem to be effected by the punishment. It's not a normal way to make someone look strong but I would be fine with this philosophy if it didn't hurt the match quality so much. Simply put this wasn't very good. There was no comeback from the babyface. The crowd has no reason to become invested in the outcome. This could have been incredible too which annoys me even more. Near the end when Kane was finishing off Shane the crowd was really into the match as they were trying to will a comeback from Shane. The spots were cool and there some brutal shots with various weapons, from just a violence standpoint this works and the spots were almost enough to keep me entertained from bell to bell. However from a match standpoint this fails on all other grounds 
***1/4 *

_
WWE Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Bashams(c) w/Shaniqua vs. Los Guerreros *

This was bland. I don't think I've ever said such a thing about an Eddie Guerrero match before but must of this was really uninteresting. The crowd loved Eddie and Chavo but they never really had anything to cheer about other than a few brief moments. Shaniqua was actually the most interesting part of the match as seeing a really tall jacked black woman in heels give Eddie a clothesline and a body slam was a sight to see. The Bashams did nothing to impress me. They showed no personality at all and had no memorable or even interesting offense. Something really important was lacking here. 
**3/4 *


_Survivor Series Elimination Match:_
*Christian, Chris Jericho, Mark Henry, Scott Steiner, and Randy Orton w/Eric Bischoff, Teddy Long, and Stacy Keibler vs. Booker T, RVD, Devon Dudley, Bubba Ray Dudley, and Shawn Michaels w/Stone COld Steve Austin
*
This is the way that these matches should be booked as it was a total roller coaster ride. Every elimination meant something in terms of momentum and the crowd reaction. Every time the face team would score an elimination and the crowd starting popping for it the heels would cut that off and take control of the match again. This match also is another example of just how incredible Shawn Michaels really is. I don't know if there's anyone better to have in the ring alone with Jericho, Orton, and Christian. The best part about all of this was that he never resorted to the fighting spirit or no selling type of comeback. You were just kind of left wondering, "How did he do that?" after he eliminated two guys. 

The ending was pretty screwy but saying I don't think I can say without bias that I didn't like it. I mean it's impossible to watch this and not root for Shawn Michaels so there is a feeling of disappointment when Michaels gets pinned. This is one of the better elimination matches that I've seen. The match was a blast to watch and the finishing stretch featured an incredible babyface performance by one of the best wrestlers ever. 
*****1/4 *


_Bured Alive Match:_
*Vince McMahon vs. Undertaker*

I thought it was pretty hilarious that Vince was bleeding after one punch from the Undertaker. This wasn't much of a match. I don't think Vince got in any offense until the very end of the match. The ass kicking delivered by the Underaker was pretty awesome though. There were just some brutal shots to the head that Vince took. It's barely a match but it was pretty entertaining. 
****


_World Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*Goldberg(c) vs. Triple H w/Ric Flair
*
I don't think this was a bad match but on the other hand this doesn't seem like a main event quality match to me. It was on the short side (maybe a little over 10 minutes) and most of the match was Triple H working the leg of Goldberg. I understand that the point of the match was to make Goldberg look like an unstoppable monster by having him beat Evolution by himself with one leg but I wish they could have just made it more entertaining. This match really shows why Goldberg didn't fit in with the WWE. He wasn't able to work a lengthy match and he delivered a lackluster main event on a big show. Triple H didn't exactly deliver an inspiring performance either but he managed to keep a lengthy control segment interesting and he had the awesome antics of Ric Flair on his side. 
***3/4 *​

Overall this was really a one match show. I loved the pre-show match and it was more enjoyable than anything on the card aside from the Raw Elimination Match. I don't know where you could go and find the match between Tajiri and Noble other than buying this DVD but if you ever come across the match online make sure you watch it. It's only a few minutes long but it's fucking awesome. A lot of the matches were really lackluster which is a shame considering how much talent was on the card.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Someone put up RAW the night after WM 24 on XWT so, taking advantage of the freelech week I gave it a download and started to watch it.

Just some highlighs from the show. First off, I forgot how damn good the Age of Orton was. Secondly, this was the night Cryme Tyme returned after being released and holy shit the crowd was hot for them. Cryme Tyme of all people got "Welcome back!" chants. Why did WWE ever split them up?

This RAW also featured Santino vs Maria and I forgot how damn good Santino was a heel. It takes true talent to be a comedic character and be hated. You're doing funny stuff but people are still booing you. And damn, I forgot how hot Maria was.

Also does anyone remember Show and Kahli having a feud? They had an encounter in the ring but I really can't recall a feud between the two nor can I even recall Khali confronting Show.

Probably the most amazing thing that stood out for me on this RAW was that Jericho and Punk had a match that night! I had no idea these two clashed before their Mania storyline. I really don't remember the two having a match. It was a really good match too. Orton and Hardy had a solid match as well and Maria vs Santino was freaking hilarious. It lasted 10 seconds but it sure as hell was entertaining. What happened was that, in a backstage segment, Santino told Maria that Divas don't belong in the WWE blah blah. So when the match started Santino slammed Maria's face into the Matt, went to hit a elbow drop but missed, meanwhile all the Divas were making their way to the ring. And they basically beat the shit out of him. I actually remembered this moment when I saw it happen. Holy shit, Santino really is a great talent.

And of course, this RAW was marked my Flair;s big send off. Really sad moment. I like re-watching these old RAWs. All I remembered from that night was Flair's send off )then again that's what you're really suppose to remember anyway)but it's night just looking at how the landscape was back then and how much things have changed. Like I mentioned, Punk and Jericho took place on that night. I wonder how much people (if they themselves) would have though these two would have worked again 4 years later in one of the year's top storylines.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember the Khali/Show feud. Was when Show first began using the WMD. I recall some stupid segment on SD where Khali was giving Big Show gifts, shit like a goat and piss or something :lmao. Their match at Backlash... well it wasn't HORRIBLE which is surprising given the fact Khali is one of the worst wrestlers ever, but it won't go down as a great Big Man Vs Big Man match lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ he who shall not be named.

Watched Triple H vs Lesnar yesterday and it still stands as my number 3 MOTY, probably higher than anybody else has it in this universe. When the BIG FIGHT ATMOSPHERE actually delivers a great brawl with some fitting psychology (BROCK'S FUCKING STOMACH PROBLEMS) and some fantastic selling by both how can you go wrong. Trips' battle cry that "THIS IS THE WWE, NOT UFC" seemed a little MEH but I was cool with it at the end of the day. Watched it right after I got finished with Lesnar's book so I put extra emphasis on the great stomach work. Cerebral Assassin 101

***** 1/2* ALL THE WAY.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Flair's retirement send off made me cry at 13 and Jesus at 18, it makes me cry even more because now I understand a whole lot more about his legacy with the Four Horsemen and Evolution and Steamboat. 

I'm going to try to finish off that RAW '99 pack. This is the second time I've downloaded RAW '99. The first time was in 2010 and I don't why I tortured myself like that again. I just find the product to be unwatchable. I'm sorry but RAW in '99 sucked! Nitro must have been complete dogshit. It's amazing how ratings peaked in '99. I find myself skipping through a lot of stuff, in particular the midcard stuff. Oh and the horrendous Hardcore matches.

My ECW 2006 pack is at 98% (ahhhhh hurry up!!) so I'll kill some time (hopefully before I do myself) watching some RAW '99. Christ, did I mention how unwatchable this show was back in '99? The raunchiness just masks it.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> :lol @ he who shall not be named.
> 
> Watched Triple H vs Lesnar yesterday and it still stands as my number 3 MOTY, probably higher than anybody else has it in this universe. When the* BIG FIGHT ATMOSPHERE actually delivers a great brawl with some fitting psychology *(BROCK'S FUCKING STOMACH PROBLEMS) and some fantastic selling by both how can you go wrong. Trips' battle cry that "THIS IS THE WWE, NOT UFC" seemed a little MEH but I was cool with it at the end of the day. Watched it right after I got finished with Lesnar's book so I put extra emphasis on the great stomach work. Cerebral Assassin 101
> 
> ***** 1/2* ALL THE WAY.


If by "big fight atmosphere" you mean the crowd being dead for an awfully paced, plodding, un-energetic, wannabe Brock V Cena match, then yeah.

Bad, bad match. Majorly disappointing considering who was in it.

Brock no selling the Pedigree was lol worthy though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've yet to see Lesnar/HHH. The majority of the feedback seems to be negative though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I LOVE IT DAMNIT. In regards to the "Big Fight Atmosphere" , I was referring to the dimming of the lights/big match intros/overall TREATMENT of the match as a big deal. The crowd kinda sucked balls to be honest 

@Sharkboy , 99 RAW is exactly the reason that RATINGS don't equal QUALITY. Now if you went into the GOAT thread and said that.......

Christian vs Cody Rhodes (No Way Out 2012) : **** 1/2*


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I laugh when people say 1999 is the goat year in WWE when theres only two great matches from it and a ton of stupid story lines.

Cant wait until WM so HHH gets his much needed win back.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Trips/Lesnar is great. But it seems to be a love it or hate it match.

Raw 99 is pretty dogshit, but weirdly it starts to get better towards the end of the year. Almost like they got new writers :side:. The hardcore matches are probably the few things I can watch from that time period lol. They usually provided some fun matches with weapons for no real reason rather than trying to kill each other with weapons and bleed everywhere and make things seems as epic as they possibly can for no real reason like ECW...


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I personally thought the highlight of the Trips/Lesnar match was the "YOU TAPPED OUT" aimed towards The Game after the match :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cookie Monster said:


> I personally thought the highlight of the Trips/Lesnar match was the "YOU TAPPED OUT" aimed towards The Game after the match :lmao


Those fans were awesome .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck those fans 

Watching RAW 100 right now , and SANTINO'S TEA TIME @ 99 ? I just put the damn DVD in and THIS SHIT makes the list ? IT WASN'T FUNNY OR GOOD DAMNIT. I don't think there's going to be anything more out of place on the list, so my disappointments peak early atleast


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Fuck those fans


Come on, man. Embrace the (HHH) hate! :kane

Lesnar/HHH: ***


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Here's another problem with '99 I have. you see when there's 5 guys in a group, it's called a faction. When here's 15, it's called a clusterfuck.

Then there's things like Henry getting the bj from that ******. Raunchy? Yes. Entertaining? As much as Mae Young giving birth to Hornswoggle.

'99 sucked. Maybe that's why Austin getting thrown over the bridge was my only memory from that year. Nah, I was still a little pissing fuck 

Oh guys can anyone clear this up for me. Two things I want clarity on and it would be greatly appreciated. I remember watching RAW as a kid and there was this weird segment. It involved X-Pac and I believe Tori. Anyway, the segment was that Tori (assuming it was her) brought him a plate of fries which spelled his name. And for some reason he flipped out on her.

The second incident, involved Kane, Funaki and Taka. Iirc, they were in the bathroom and they had these red bandanas. And they were telling Kane "Red's our favourite colour too" and yeah Kane ent berzerk on their ass.

What year(s) were those two incidents from?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They sound like late 99 stuff to me. That's when X-Pac and Tori got together, and I've rewatched 2000 and definitely don't remember that lol. The Kane thing could have happened any time in 99 though, but Taka and Funaki were pretty much JUST a comedy act by late 99 and again I don't remember it from 2000 .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingCal said:


> They sound like late 99 stuff to me. That's when X-Pac and Tori got together, and I've rewatched 2000 and definitely don't remember that lol. The Kane thing could have happened any time in 99 though, but Taka and Funaki were pretty much JUST a comedy act by late 99 and again I don't remember it from 2000 .


Hmm, well then guess I'll have to keep watching. I thought it was 2000 though but clearly it's not. Maybe '01?

Speaking of Funaki, whatever happened to Kung Fu Naki?!?!? Always wanted to see Kung Fu Naki vs Santino. Would have been one awesome match.

Honestly, for the 20th anniversary I'd mark if he returns.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Lesnar/HHH was a massive disappointment.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The reason why 1999 was such a successful year and is held in high regard is not because of the quality of wrestling, but the characters. 

Look at 2012 for example. There were many great matches, some even classics, and we were always treated to at least one good TV match a week. But the characters themselves have been dogshit for the most part. Ziggler has just recently found an identity, Kofi is still a happy Jamaican with no direction, nobody gave a shit about Daniel Bryan (except for smarks) until he found a catchphrase, etc.

The thing with 1999 is that EVERYONE had a storyline. Whether it was main eventers like The Rock and Stone Cold or freaking referees and Godfather's hos, everyone had a reason to be there. 

You can't watch 1999 if you are looking for good wrestling. 1999 is a year of swerves, raunchy storylines, and larger than life gimmicks.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

1999 was entertaining as hell, but seriously, some of the stuff they pulled off was utterly ridiculous.

- The 'sacrifice' of Dennis Knight to become Mideon.
- Mae Young giving birth to a hand.
- The Hardcore Evening Gown Match with Patterson vs. Brisco.
- Godfather's Ho winning the Hardcore Title.
- Vince McMahon winning the WORLD Title.

Pretty sure there's more but my brain isn't operating too well at the moment. Pure Russo right there. I fucking LOVED The Ministry though, but didn't like the way the Corporate Ministry ended.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

It was more of a soap opera than it is now. Back then though, soap operas were the shit. Crash TV, was THE SHIT. It's a different time. I have no doubt you could put THOSE characters in today's TV in today's climate and there is no way it would come off as successful without people moaning, complaining etc.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Alim said:


> The reason why 1999 was such a successful year and is held in high regard is not because of the quality of wrestling, but the characters.
> 
> Look at 2012 for example. There were many great matches, some even classics, and we were always treated to at least one good TV match a week. But the characters themselves have been dogshit for the most part. Ziggler has just recently found an identity, Kofi is still a happy Jamaican with no direction, nobody gave a shit about Daniel Bryan (except for smarks) until he found a catchphrase, etc.
> 
> ...


Oh i wasn't watching it for the wrestling. I was watching it for the storylines, which are dogshit. I mean, not everything is bad but there's a lot of awful shit as well. And the swerves are ridiculous. A lot of times they were just swerves for swerving's and in the long-run it served no purpose.

EVERYONE had a storyline, yes. Were they good? Hell no.

Not to mention the booking is just all over the damn place and midcard guys just seem to feud with each other for no reason. One minute Midcard A guy is attacking Midcard B guy, then for some reason Midcard B guy decides to attack Midcard C guy. The booking is all over the damn place.

After watching '99, it pretty much confirms that the Attitude Era just cannot work in these times.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> It was more of a soap opera than it is now. Back then though, soap operas were the shit. Crash TV, was THE SHIT. It's a different time. I have no doubt you could put THOSE characters in today's TV in today's climate and there is no way it would come off as successful without people moaning, complaining etc.


Yeah absolutely. Popular culture was all about being risque and vulgar in those days due to the increase of the internet and people not being afraid to speak their minds. It was also entertaining simply because these things had never been done before. Russo left at the right time because it simply reached it's selling point at that stage, I'd hate to think what WWE would have been like if he had stayed.

Nowadays WWE is too clean cut and high-definition. Everything comes off all pristine and polished. Needs a bit more grime and dirt to give it some character.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When ranking Summerslam main events , I'd easily put it in the upper tier... Top 5-10 Summerslam main events anyone (we love to rank Wrestlemania Main Events, why not the second biggest PPV of the year?) ? 

_**** 1/2 Tier_

1. Punk-Cena SS 11
2. Edge-Taker SS 08
3. Lesnar-HHH SS 12
4. Bret-Bulldog SS 92

_****-**** 1/4 Tier_
5. Rock-Lesnar SS 02
6. Benoit-Orton SS 04
7. Michaels-Vader SS 97
8. Punk-Hardy SS 09
9. Hart-Taker SS 97
10. Team Nexus-Team WWE SS 10

Summerslam has has WAAAAYYYY more consistent main events in this era than any other PPV IMO. I'd argue that Summerslam has been at it's best in the PG era and that it isn't even close actually. 08-12 has been a hot streak of ****** main events that I hope will continue at this year's Summerslam.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

1999 was by far the "worst" of the Attitude era. The only thing I'll give that year credit for was that pretty much everybody had a storyline and was involved on the shows in some way. Which is good. But the in ring product was nothing great. Also, when you see what WCW was putting on the air in 1999, almost anything the other company does looks much better by default. WCW in 1999 was pretty horrendous.

Also, the years sandwiching 1999 were all very good years for the product. 1997, 1998, and 2000 were all fantastic years. So, as a fan, it makes it easier to stomach 1999 with 3 other very good to great years sandwiching 1999. One low quality year and 3 high quality years out of a 4 year period is something I think any wrestling fan would sign up for, especially when 97, 98, and 2000 were as great as they were.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Yeah absolutely. Popular culture was all about being risque and vulgar in those days due to the increase of the internet and people not being afraid to speak their minds. It was also entertaining simply because these things had never been done before. Russo left at the right time because it simply reached it's selling point at that stage, I'd hate to think what WWE would have been like if he had stayed.
> 
> Nowadays WWE is too clean cut and high-definition. Everything comes off all pristine and polished. Needs a bit more grime and dirt to give it some character.


Spot on. 

It's all high-definition, bright and vibrant and clean clut because a lot of it is like that in the real life nowadays. You've seen fashion, you've seen the music in the times we live in right now, the WWE are just part of that culture right now. 

I just get the feeling that if you give the WWE more grime and dirt, they will start to lose viewers because that isn't what this generation is about, despite us fans on the internet liking and respecting the decision a lot more.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think since going PG WWE has churned out more MOTY and more MOTYC. 

2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 have all won the 'coveted' MOTY award from the Observer.

Btw, Nexus vs Team WWE was that good? I should give that a watch. I heard a lot of criticism from Cena getting up 2 seconds after getting DDT'ed on the concrete floor.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Oh guys can anyone clear this up for me. Two things I want clarity on and it would be greatly appreciated. I remember watching RAW as a kid and there was this weird segment. It involved X-Pac and I believe Tori. Anyway, the segment was that Tori (assuming it was her) brought him a plate of fries which spelled his name. And for some reason he flipped out on her.
> 
> The second incident, involved Kane, Funaki and Taka. Iirc, they were in the bathroom and they had these red bandanas. And they were telling Kane "Red's our favourite colour too" and yeah Kane ent berzerk on their ass.


For some reason, that sounds fucking hilarious. :lmao :lmao :lmao

Oh 99, I can't wait to watch you!

Ranking SummerSlam main events at random:

Benoit/Orton ★★★★½
Rock/Brock ★★★★¼
Cena/Orton ★★★★
Punk/Cena ★★★¾-★★★★
Cena/Edge ★★★
HHH/Brock ★★★½
Taker/Edge ★★★¾
Hogan/HBK ★★★½
Elimination Chamber - ★★¾
Booker/Rock - ★★★
Nexus/WWE - ★★★½
Hart/Taker - ★★★¾

That's all of those I've seen.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Punk/Cena at SS bored me silly when i watched it in 2011. Not to mention that finish which was atrocious. Cena never got even with the referee either. DAT CONTINUITY.

Brock/Rock & Taker/Bret are my favourite SS Matches. Honourable mentions to Punk/Hardy & Edge/Taker.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Alim said:


> The reason why 1999 was such a successful year and is held in high regard is not because of the quality of wrestling, but the characters.
> 
> Look at 2012 for example. There were many great matches, some even classics, and we were always treated to at least one good TV match a week. But the characters themselves have been dogshit for the most part. Ziggler has just recently found an identity, Kofi is still a happy Jamaican with no direction, nobody gave a shit about Daniel Bryan (except for smarks) until he found a catchphrase, etc.
> 
> ...


This. So much this. 

I hate 1999 in the Attitude Era but the characters in that year were already kicked into full gear and took off to the moon. The Undertaker's character evolved once again, The Rock was already a big star once the year came, the New Age Outlaws were already an over duo as a tag team, Stone Cold was still kicking ass and taking names, Vince McMahon and Shane McMahon's heel on-screen characters came into full effect, Triple H already gotten away from the Connecticut blue-blood gimmick, etc. It was a great time for the characters that evolved in that year. 

I was looking at the Smackdown 10 year Anniversary DVD and they were talking about the Smackdown pilot, showing how over the characters such as D-Generation X, The Brood, The Ministry of Darkness, and many more were. The characters had already been established and were over with the audience that it was exciting to watch at that time .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cliffy Byro said:


> Punk/Cena at SS bored me silly when i watched it in 2011. Not to mention that finish which was atrocious. Cena never got even with the referee either. DAT CONTINUITY.


Just rewatched the match and I have to say I agree. I was completely bored almost from the get go. Crowd looks like they are struggling to stay alive and the smarky part just randomly chant shit for the hell of it mostly plus the match goes on for too long. Other than seeing Cena bust a few moves out that he doesn't usually use (Gutwrench Suplex, Emerald Flowsion, Crossface) it was a complete bore. And the finish was terrible. Cena got his foot on the rope way too early and Punk's GTS is the worst I've ever seen from him and that says a lot for a move he botches 99% of the time. His knee hit Cena's ARM ffs!

★★★★? More like ★★½ this time!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

First few times I watched Cena/Punk SS I loved it. The most recent time I tried to watch it I ended up stopping it halfway through and watching Orton/Christian instead because it was boring me.

Wrestling thrives when it has great characters telling great stories in the ring. 99 had great characters but the ring work left a lot to be desired. Today you could say the ring work is better but there are literally no characters at all which is why nobody gives a fuck. In order for something to be truly memorable and stand the test of time, you need to have both. That's why 2000 fucking ruled and is the best wrestling year ever imo. The perfect blend of character developlment and weekly story telling culminating on PPV in fantastic matches worth your money every time and from the top of the card right down to the bottom too. Everybody and everything mattered. CM Punk has held the title for over 400 days and hardly any fucks have been given because the title is basically worthless at this point. Says it all really.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk/Cena re-watches (from any event) expose the matches a lot. I've yet to re-watch any of them though but I know if I do my opinion will change so much. 

I had their NOC encounter at ★★★★ and that may have been being generous. To me their absolute worst is their RAW 2011 match. Talk about a finisher fest.

The problem with Punk/Cena is that once you've seen one, you've pretty much seen all. It's the same chain wrestle for a bit, bust out a sub, counter it, Punk hits a GTS, Cena kicks out, Cena hits AA and Punk kicks out, Punk attempts to hit a high spot but misses. Some more finisher kick outs. It's just the same crap all the time. It's like watching a watered down version of an ROH match. And by watered down I mean, it's missing about 20 more kick outs and a couple more high spots to be classified as an ROH match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Cena MITB is fantastic. Punk/Cena SS dropped a lot after my most recent attempt to watch it. I don't remember anything about their Raw 11 match at all and I still haven't seen NOC yet.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked the Punk/Cena SummerSlam match a lot, but I wouldn't call it really really great or say it's one of the best matches of the year. I probably prefer the 8/22/11 one even if it isn't as good.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think I will embark on ranking those Summerslam main events. Gonna watch all of them, once I get tired of this ECW 2006 goodness. I'm only 2 episodes in but it's a hell of a lot of fun. Kelly Kelly :mark:

It still baffles me how much the product has changed in 7 years. Damn, when you say it like that. Shit feels like just yesterday when it's almost an entire freaking decade! Where did time go? And to think that WWE is more or less in it's 5th year of PG. Jesus, time is flying.


----------



## jcmmnx (Aug 7, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> Punk/Cena re-watches (from any event) expose the matches a lot. I've yet to re-watch any of them though but I know if I do my opinion will change so much.
> 
> I had their NOC encounter at ★★★★ and that may have been being generous. To me their absolute worst is their RAW 2011 match. Talk about a finisher fest.
> 
> The problem with Punk/Cena is that once you've seen one, you've pretty much seen all. It's the same chain wrestle for a bit, bust out a sub, counter it, Punk hits a GTS, Cena kicks out, Cena hits AA and Punk kicks out, Punk attempts to hit a high spot but misses. Some more finisher kick outs. It's just the same crap all the time. It's like watching a watered down version of an ROH match. And by watered down I mean, it's missing about 20 more kick outs and a couple more high spots to be classified as an ROH match.


That's the basic WWE main event formula and has been for years. I'm surprised you still watch WWE if you don't like that kind of match. Punk is a million times better worker now than he was in ROH.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Here's a little run-down of my favourite feud of ALL TIME:

UNDERTAKER VS. MANKIND

*King Of The Ring June 1996* - Singles Match - ****
*Summerslam August 1996* - Boiler Room Brawl - ***
*In Your House Buried Alive October 1996* - Buried Alive Match - ***
*Survivor Series November 1996* - Singles Match - **
*In Your House Revenge Of The Taker April 1997* - WWF Title Match - ***1/2
*King Of The Ring June 1998* - Hell In A Cell - *****
*Monday Night Raw September 1998* - No Holds Barred - ***

1996 was just an absolute triumph for Mick Foley. Only letdown being the Survivor Series match at MSG which gave off the indication that the people had seen everything they wanted to see of this feud. I remember seeing this on Sky Sports at the time, and they only showed about five minutes of the match! Unbelievable.

The match at 'Revenge Of The Taker' is an underrated gem. The Boiler Room Brawl is one of the more talked about matches and is an excellent match, but was hampered by not having commentary during the brawl in the boiler room itself, and it dragged on for way too long. 

Hell In A Cell is undoubtedly the daddy here, and has it's critics who mainly cite it as a fall from a cell and nothing else. _They couldn't be more wrong_. From Taker throwing Foley off the cell, to the way he climbs the cage with that sick grin to then being chokeslammed THROUGH the cage, complete with astonishing calls from Jim Ross. Then Terry Funk gets attacked. Foley and Taker continue to battle despite their injuries (Taker had a broken bone in his foot), and the end sequences with the thumb tacks are truly unforgettable.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

jcmmnx said:


> That's the basic WWE main event formula and has been for years. I'm surprised you still watch WWE if you don't like that kind of match. Punk is a million times better worker now than he was in ROH.


Oh for sure Punk is a much better worker now and no, that's not the main event style The main event style of WWE has false finishes. Punk and Cena just have 2 counts.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I like to believe that they are going through the motions (obviously lol) last year, this year and probably next so they can get this current crop of guys ready so that when the time is right, they have all the tools set in place to take advantage and hopefully usher in a new boom or as close to a new boom period as you can get in the 2010's. The NXT guys, Maddox, Sandow, Rhodes, Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns, Ryback etc. They're all going to leapfrog over the Kofi Kingston's and Evan Bourne's of the world imo. They're rebuilding right now that much is obvious. I think things will be a lot better once they get an established character base to work with a few years down the line. Unfortunately we just have to suffer through the shit until they get there.


----------



## jcmmnx (Aug 7, 2009)

JoeRulz said:


> Lesnar/HHH was a massive disappointment.


As a Lesnar fan it was great. As a HHH fan expecting to see his same old boring formula it may have been a dissapointment.


----------



## jcmmnx (Aug 7, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> Oh for sure Punk is a much better worker now and no, that's not the main event style The main event style of WWE has false finishes. Punk and Cena just have 2 counts.


Cena mtches are the WWE main event style considering he's been the main event for 8 years.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

As a Lesnar AND Triple H fan it was pretty darn awesome. 

:brock :hhh


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Don't talk about Evan Bourne like that. :argh:

I'm still waiting for him to come back. :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm sure he's at the very top of the Big Johnny list for when they start making cuts.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

More than likely.

Somehow JTG finds his way off that list every year but this might be it for him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Here's a little run-down of my favourite feud of ALL TIME:
> 
> UNDERTAKER VS. MANKIND
> 
> ...


I fucking love their series together. Awesome feud and awesome matches. Ill ust do their ppV matches cos I don't remeber their tv ones as well:

*King Of The Ring June 1996* - Singles Match - ****
*Summerslam August 1996* - Boiler Room Brawl - * (fuck this dull piece of shit)
*In Your House Buried Alive October 1996* - Buried Alive Match - ***3/4
*Survivor Series November 1996* - Singles Match - ***1/2 (watched this about a week ago for the first time in years, didn't even remember that it had happened untll someone here told me it did and i didn't remember it so i looked it up and i watched it and reveiwed it but i don t know if i posted the reviewe here or not i do that sometiems)
*In Your House Revenge Of The Taker April 1997* - WWF Title Match - ****1/4 (their best match and my personal fav)
*King Of The Ring June 1998* - Hell In A Cell - ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Summerslam Main Event Ratings (that I've seen):

97- Taker/Bret- ****1/4
98- Taker/Austin- ***1/2
99- Austin/HHH/Foley- (Need to re-watch)
00- Rock/Angle/HHH- ***
01- Rock/Booker T- (Need to re-watch)
02- Lesnar/Rock- ****
03- Elimination Chamber II- **1/2
04- Orton/Benoit- ****
05- Hogan/HBK- ***1/2
06- Edge/Cena- ***1/4
07-Orton/Cena- ****
08- Taker/Edge- ****3/4
09- Punk/Jeff- ****1/4-****1/2
10- Team WWE vs. Team Nexus- ***1/2
11- Punk/Cena- ****
12- Lesnar/HHH- ***

So in order:

1) Taker/Edge
2) Punk/Hardy
3) Taker/Bret
4) Lesnar/Rock
5) Orton/Benoit
6) Orton/Cena
7) Punk/Cena
8) Team WWE vs. Team Nexus
9) Hogan/HBK
10) Taker/Austin
11) Edge/Cena
12) Lesnar/HHH
13) Rock/Angle/HHH
14) Elimination Chamber II


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Finally checked out Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk MITB. Very rich story telling ★ ★ ★ ★ 

Upon first watch it was still too much about AJ but it was pretty damn physical and the crowd was into it. The pacing was kinda slow and it dragged in parts. Maybe I'll give it a second watch soon. 

I prefer their OTL match more and I also like Jericho/Punk from Extreme Rules more as well.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ugh Bryan/Punk at MITB was really poor, just kendo stick shots and then a suplex through a table, done.

** at last watch OTL is still ***** and MOTY to me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Smackdown 20/1/2006:*

Bobby Lashley vs JBL - ★¾
- Nothing much to see here. They wrestle for a few minutes and the action is alright. Then the Boogeyman and his pyro smoke takes over the whole arena to the point barely anything can be seen and Lashley comes back after taking a Clothesline to finish JBL off with the Dominator. Also glad that stupid thing on Jillian's face is no longer there anymore. At least something to thank the Boogeyman for!

Finlay vs Matt Hardy - ★★★
- Finlay's debut! He's pretty fun to watch and I also like his selling. His "I love to fight" character is emphasized with the DQ finish where he refuses to let go off Hardy on the ropes.

The Gymini vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - ★★
- Another win for the former but nowhere near as entertaining as the non-match squash they did of Londrick two weeks earlier. That shit had me in tears! :lmao

Mark Henry vs Rey Mysterio - ★★★¼
- Rey just works so well in these type of David/Goliath kind of match-ups and this one is no different. He plays the underdog role to perfection by finding any way to gain the upper-hand while Mizark sells for him fine and also does a great job as the monster heel that can easily get the upper-hand back whenever he works from down under. Excellent finish when Mark roles over with Rey in his hands and turns the pin into a WSM for the victory.

Randy Orton vs Orlando Jordan - ★★★¼
- Benoit is not the only guy to have a decent match with Orlando. Orton manages to do the same here. Just something about Orton's style here that I love. He knows how to do it in the ring and his matches are worked very smartly. I could do with less time spent in restholds but that's not big issue to me. I also loved the part where he argues with the ref when his pin is broken up when Orlando touches the rope with his foot but doesn't quite get there. "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?" I thought it was unnecessary that Booker interfered, though. Orton could have won this clean without a problem since Orlando was a joke at this point and no one could have really taken him seriously. Hell, I can't even buy into him as the face in here.

Kurt Angle vs Daivari - ★
- Not much of a match. Very little ring action and most of it is spent on concentrating on the Mark Henry/Angle feud as he walks to ringside and Melina jumps on Angle to make it a DQ. Didn't expect DAT SWERVE in the end when Daivari became Henry's manager, though.

Another solid week of Smackdown with some enjoyable ring action. I'm guaranteed to enjoy the week after because of the NHB match between Benoit and Orton, so that's something to look forward to. Then it's on to the Rumble!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can understand the hate for Lesnar-HHH if you aren't a fan of either guy, but both are in my top 3 favorites of all time so I'm ridiculously biased even though I see a ton of the things in the match as pure gold, mainly the kick ass inclusion of Trips finding and exploiting a real life weakness of Brock and dissecting the weakness in true "Cerebral Assassin" fashion. It was nice to see Trips in one of his probably LAST true main event matches (as in, the last match on the card), and to have his last two main events be against the guy who keeps me watching in Punk and my third all time favorite is amazing to me.

Don't understand the hate for Cena-Punk from Summerslam 2011 though, that match is undisputably awesome on just about every single conceive-able level. ***** 1/2* all the way from me and the greatest Summerslam main event of all time in my book. I'd actually go out on a limb and say I prefer Summerslam 2011 to Money in the Bank 2011 SANS opener and main event. Everything in between belongs to Summerslam... Sheamus-Henry, Bryan-Barrett, Orton-Christian = AWESOME.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Cena/Punk MITB - *****
Cena/Punk SS - ****1/2
Cena/Punk RAW 8/11 - ****
Cena/Punk NOC - ****1/4

Perfect chemistry. Haters gonna hate.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Yeah. I wasn't a huge fan of the one Punk/Cena match I watched so I never bothered with any of the others. I probably will someday. I put MITB at ***1/2. It was good but not epic. I've just never been a big Cena fan. Same with Cena/Lesnar which I have at <***. Just not my cup of tea. Didn't enjoy it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Exact same ratings as *Wrestlinfan35*. The best chemistry between two full time performers today, and if they continue to excel will probably go down as one of the best in-ring pairings ever in my book. Their chemistry is kind of hard to explain, but they were made for each other.

Cena-Brock from Extreme Rules on the other hand, is another one of those matches that only comes along once in a lifetime. Seriously, I haven't seen a match quite like that one in my life, and I honestly don't think I ever will. It took the natural presence and skill of a Brock Lesnar to make JOHN CENA garner sympathy from a CHICAGO crowd of all places. That match along with Cena-Punk from MITB are the two best matches of Cena's career BY FAR IMO.... I'd comfortably put them both in my top 10 WWF/WWE matches ever (insane, I know).


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

There is something about Cena/Brock that I don't like. I understand that it has a real fight feel to it and how Lesnar was the legitimate fighter while Cena was the underdog sports entertainer, but that finish really, really hurts. It's a typical super-Cena esque finish and is pretty weak compared to the beating Lesnar gave him throughout the match.

Still a great match and a top 10 match for 2012.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I just watched *WWE Best Pay-Per-View Matches of 2012* and Lesnar vs Cena wasn't on the DVD lol.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

robertdeniro said:


> I just watched *WWE Best Pay-Per-View Matches of 2012* and Lesnar vs Cena wasn't on the DVD lol.


Seriously?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

It's probably due to the fact that the match is also on Lesnar's new re-release. WWE don't usually do repeats on their dvd releases.

Except for Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena but they were arguably bigger matches for the dvd market.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

robertdeniro said:


> I just watched *WWE Best Pay-Per-View Matches of 2012* and Lesnar vs Cena wasn't on the DVD lol.


I don't think Punk/Bryan OTL or either Punk/Jericho match is on there either, are they?

I had a look at the listing, and WWE are usually pretty good with their best of's, but this one has some huge omissions.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I still think the match did great things for Brock despite the loss. Brock didn't even have to resort to using weapons like Cena and was toying with him at several points in the match. 

The impression I got from the matches with Cena/HHH is that if anyone has a normal 1 v 1 with Lesnar they stand no chance. Due to him being a BEAST.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I just watched Undertaker/HHH HIAC WM 28. Man, that joint in amazing bro. They put on an outstanding match in minimalist fashion. 
★ ★ ★ ★ ★

But is it MOTY? 

*sighs* its the best worked match of the year. As far as storytelling is concerned its unmatched. When it comes to in-ring action its a little behind Lesnar/Cena and also Punk/Bryan MITB (another very good storytelling match) but the way its worked puts it over the top. The false finishes were convincing, the facials, the actual words spoken, the emotion, the sentimentality of it all, its just amazing. 


Right now I have it at MOTY. I will return once I watch another MOTY contender in Punk/Bryan MITB.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

robertdeniro said:


> I just watched *WWE Best Pay-Per-View Matches of 2012* and Lesnar vs Cena wasn't on the DVD lol.


Probably because of the blood. That event got a TV-14 rating and its because of that match. Its probably a calculated deal to ensure the DVD gets a PG rating.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Taker/HHH isn't a 5 star match. MOTY fine but it seemed like a tame No DQ match inside a cell(which wasn't even used much). HHH/Jericho HIAC was better


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wonder if the Extreme Rules DVD censors the blood with the black and white screen? 

Cena/Brock isn't only MOTY imo but it is also feud of the year. I believe WWE gave us Cena/Brock as a way of saying sorry for giving us that piece of crap Cena/Rock. 

You see,every feud in wresting is designed to make money. However, the company doesn't directly tell you it to your face. And that's what they did with Cena/Rock. What was a feud marked by hatred in 2011, became a marketing tool by 2012. It didn't even feel like a feud. There was no heat nothing. WWE told us upfront, "Hey, we're only doing this for the money!" The performances by Rida and MGK didn't help either. Not to mention the match sucked. From an in-ring standpoint, it wasn't a bad match. Actually it was pretty good. But it didn't tell the story it was supposed to tell. Point is, Cena/Rock blew and WWE wasted a year. Did they make a lot of money? Hell yeah! But they didn't squeeze every penny possible out of it.

Cena/Brock on the other hand was a feud. There was heat. The 3 weeks leading up to Cena/Brock was by far the 3 best weeks of the year and of all time. Reminded me of Punk/Cena build from 2011. It had that same intensity. It had heat. Cena/Brock turned it up a lot more though and it went from heat to scorching hot. From Lesnar attacking Cena, to the big brawl on RAW, everything about this feud screamed "big fight" Here, WWE made money without telling you like it is. You just had to put out the money for Cena/Lesnar. It was a feud.

I believe, since the feud was so early in the year, that a lot of people have forgotten it by now but if you look back on it, it is one of the best booked feuds (or match in this case) of all time. Cena/Brock not only gets MOTY from me but Feud of The Year as well.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Punk/Bryan from MITB is a pile of pretentious shit.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Only low point in the Cena/Brock feud was the Brock/BIG JOHNNY contract signing which was such a bad idea to let those two talk for 20+mins.

Despite it only being a month long feud it had some great moments:

Brock's return and subsequent attack on Cena.
The Cena/Brock confrontation and Brock busting Cena's mouth.
Awesome UFC style Brock video package . ( Whats running down his leg? PISS!)
Great Edge WAKE UP! promo to Cena.
And the awesome match they gave us at Extreme Rules.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm also pretty sure the Trips/Lesnar match has hurt Lesnar's drawing abilities to some degree.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm no fan of the cena/lesnar feud. In my opinion it sucked. It started with a bang but when Lesnar started talking it went downhill quick, especially live interviews on TV. Its a fantastic match though, I just feel the heat fizzled when Lesnar had to talk. 


I don't know what I would pick for feud of the year. Not many feuds last year had any fuckin heat.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Punk/Bryan from MITB is a pile of pretentious shit.


A pretentious wrestling match? never heard of such a thing.

Can imagine DA CASUALS thinking HHH V Lesnar was a bore, therefore the thought of another slow, plodding Lesnar might turn then away.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cena/Punk SummerSlam 2011 ***

I actually ordered this PPV, and I can't believe how disappointed I was with that main event. It was very average, and that is being kind about it. To be fair, I think WWE stretched that storyline abit too thin. It should have ended with their MITB match the month before, or that next night on Raw. But extending it another month and trying to get another PPV main event out of it (especially on one of the biggest shows of the year), proved to be asking too much. By that time, the story had already been told and the match displayed that. I can certainly understand why alot of people here have that match in the *** or even less range.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> A pretentious wrestling match? never heard of such a thing.
> 
> Can imagine DA CASUALS thinking HHH V Lesnar was a bore, therefore the thought of another slow, plodding Lesnar might turn then away.


Professional wrestling, as with all other forms of entertainment is pretentious generally. 



I understand what he's saying though, but I disagree. 


Punk/Bryan (MITB) ★ ★ ★ ★ 1/4
Upon second watch my opinion hasn't really changed. Its a great match, I understand the story a bit better. Last night I said it was "too much about AJ" and now I see that it was supposed to be about her the whole time. I had to remember that AJ is in this for attention, and in her mind these guys are fighting over her, so she's in the way a lot by design. Maybe it wasn't the best thing to do, but the story was very well told with AJ interfering benefitting both guys and not really allowing her to "making a choice". I think the pacing was pretty good, I said it was slow last night. It also had a very good finish and the crowd brought a damn good atmosphere.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

robertdeniro said:


> I just watched *WWE Best Pay-Per-View Matches of 2012* and Lesnar vs Cena wasn't on the DVD lol.


I was mad about it too, but then I jjust went out and bought the Extreme Rules dvd. So worth it.



Duke Droese said:


> I don't think Punk/Bryan OTL or either Punk/Jericho match is on there either, are they?
> 
> I had a look at the listing, and WWE are usually pretty good with their best of's, but this one has some huge omissions.


That's actually a good thing, because both were on Punk's set. Makes it much easier for collectors and/or completists, plus Best in the World was a top seller.



jonoaries said:


> Probably because of the blood. That event got a TV-14 rating and its because of that match. Its probably a calculated deal to ensure the DVD gets a PG rating.


I can see that being a big factor as well.



sharkboy22 said:


> I wonder if the Extreme Rules DVD censors the blood with the black and white screen?


It isn't. No blood is censored but I felt like some parts were edited cause I could've swore Cena was on the mat getting checked out for a much longer period of time. One second the ref is looking at him, then they cut back and he already has gloves on. 90% in tact it appeared.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That's actually a good thing, because both were on Punk's set. Makes it much easier for collectors and/or completists, plus Best in the World was a top seller.


Maybe, but a best of 2012 PPV DVD that doesn't include:

Punk/Bryan OTL
Punk/Jericho ER
Sheamus/Bryan ER
Lesnar/Cena ER

seems like an entirely incomplete set to me. That's like 4 of the top 10 WWE PPV matches of the year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Had ER for a week now, yet to watch it again. Waiting until... perhaps 2morrow when my parents are both at work and I can use the big TV downstairs and see it in all its HD Bluray quality glory .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Cena/Punk SummerSlam 2011 ***
> 
> I actually ordered this PPV, and I can't believe how disappointed I was with that main event. It was very average, and that is being kind about it. To be fair, I think WWE stretched that storyline abit too thin. It should have ended with their MITB match the month before, or that next night on Raw. But extending it another month and trying to get another PPV main event out of it (especially on one of the biggest shows of the year), proved to be asking too much. By that time, the story had already been told and the match displayed that. I can certainly understand why alot of people here have that match in the *** or even less range.


Glad I'm not the only one who felt the disappointment. It was just so slow and was pretty much a poor man's rehash of their MITB match which still held up the second time I watched it. I admit I was very into the storyline at the time, though. It's just now that I look back with the mark glasses off, it just doesn't feel nearly as great as I remember it being.


----------



## Felpent (Jun 11, 2012)

I thought Cena vs Punk Summerslam 2011 was really good. ****1/2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

For me Punk vs Cena from Summerslam was just a bad match compared to the one from MITB. Anyway i'll give a ***


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 20​*
This show is sooooooo long. So I decided to only watch what I remembered as good ( I know such a novel concept :lol).

*Jericho vs. Christian*
★★★1/2


*Evolution vs. Rock 'n Sock
*
★★★★

*Eddie vs. Angle*

★★★3/4

*HHH vs. Michaels vs. Benoit 
*★★★★★​


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jericho/Christian - ****
Rock & Sock/Evolution - ***1/2
Eddie/Angle - ***
HHH/Benoit/HBK - *****

HHH/HBK/Benoit being the GOAT match, still think it's possibly the greatest match I've ever seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho/Christian - ****1/2
Rock & Sock/Evolution - **
Eddie/Angle - ***
HHH/Benoit/HBK - ****3/4


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

4 stars to Eddie/Angle. Love both their matches. The WM one and the summerslam one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best Eddie/Angle match is not even from 2004. It's the match they have from 14 April 2005 on Smackdown. Their other stuff were kinda boring to me.

As for WM20:

Show/Cena: ★★★
Christian/Jericho: ★★★ (Didn't like it first time, a rewatch might change that, though. But I wasn't really fond of any of their matches from the series)
Evolution/Rock n Sock: ★★★¾ (This is FUN, Orton vs Rock one-on-one would have been better, though.)
Eddie/Angle: ★★★¼
Benoit/HHH/HBK: ★★★★★


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Wrestlemania 21 was a fun show

Cena/Show- **
Jericho/Christian- ****1/4
Evolution/Rockn'Sock- ***1/2
Eddie/Angle- Haven't seen this in years 
Benoit/HHH/HBK- ****3/4


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Wrestlemania 21 was a fun show
> 
> Cena/Show- **
> Jericho/Christian- ****1/4
> ...


Think you mean WrestleMania XX. 21 was pretty good too. Everything but Cena/JBL and Show/Akebono was pretty much excellent.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I prefer HHH/HBK/Benoit Backlash over their Mania match.

Jericho/Christian WM 20 seems to get mixed reviews. I've yet to see it though.

Also when it comes to Mania one of my all time favoruites (probably a top 5) is Wrestlemania 22. Very entertaining Mania. Edge/Foley was great, HBK/Vince was good (this match gets a lot of hate. I don't know why. Haven't seen it since I was 11 though lol), HHH/Cena was ok as well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched some of Mania 20 again a few months back. Christian/Jericho didn't hold up, but is still pretty damn good. I was actually surprised at how much better I thought Christian looked than Jericho. 
The Evolution tag had some fun parts but felt too long and I get bored with that match pretty easily. 
I'm not terribly high on the main event but it's really good whenever Benoit was firing things up. The Helmsley/Michaels parts are pretty worthless, though. IDK why they run through the exact same punch combo stuff if they aren't good at it. And they do it in every match. But yeah Benoit was probably the best wrestler in the world in 2004 and so much of that match is thanks to him. I like the "I can beat up HHH better" gimmick through it too, and using an announce table to wipe someone out is always more fun than 'hey, you, get out. You can come back in when I roll out of the ring'.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

So...the whole Chris Benoit winning the title thing really worked out...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian/Jericho was the match where I became a Christian fan and finally saw how talented he actually was. I'm extremely biased towards the match .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is there a Blu Ray version of Extreme Rules? I can't seem to find anything on amazon and I wanna get it in Blu Ray so damn bad. They have Survivor Series in Blu Ray but not Extreme Rules? WTF?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Is there a Blu Ray version of Extreme Rules? I can't seem to find anything on amazon and I wanna get it in Blu Ray so damn bad. They have Survivor Series in Blu Ray but not Extreme Rules? WTF?


European exclusive iirc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I prefer HHH/HBK/Benoit Backlash over their Mania match.


Great match too. Better crowd, cool finish and Benoit wears the awesome red tights (I have a bias for them, lol) which is a plus in my book. It just lacks that big time feel from WM where Benoit finally achieves his lifelong dream, the MSG atmosphere and the epic post-match celebration which will live on in spite of WWE's best efforts to bury it 1000 feet deep, never to be found again.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I should get around to watching WM20 again. At least the good stuff. Wasn't it like 5 hours long? :StephenA2


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

4 and a half. Lotta crap in that Mania. Honestly, HHH/Benoit/HBK was the only great thing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Wasn't it like 5 hours long? :StephenA2


Goldberg/Lesnar felt like it...


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

WM 20

Cena V Big Show *
Christian V Jericho ***3/4
Evolution V Rock n Sock ***1/2
Eddie V Angle ****
Benoit V HHH V HBK ****1/4


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Just picked up Mania 24 and Hart/Michaels on BR for £12.50 from CEX. They've got a surprisingly big collection, and some decent prices (2nd hand). Hopefully they're not grubby as fuck, like everything else CEX sell.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't know how anybody could watch that whole show. Only 4 out of 12 matches are worth anything .

And Goldberg/Lesnar is 10+ minutes.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Duke Droese said:


> Just picked up Mania 24 and Hart/Michaels on BR for £12.50 from CEX. They've got a surprisingly big collection, and some decent prices (2nd hand). Hopefully they're not grubby as fuck, like everything else CEX sell.


Hart/Michaels rivalry DVD? That documentary is GOAT-worthy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lil'Jimmy said:


> I don't know how anybody could watch that whole show. Only 4 out of 12 matches are worth anything .
> 
> And Goldberg/Lesnar is 10+ minutes.


It's a very fun show all around. It is long and there's some crap but the last time I watched it, I was entertained throughout even the bad parts like Lesnar/Goldberg. There's the star power and the huge feeling to the event that makes me interested to not just exit watching it. Hell, I would watch it over any WWE shows from the past few years just for the fact Benoit closes it as the World Champion.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

The Lady Killer said:


> Hart/Michaels rivalry DVD? That documentary is GOAT-worthy.


Yeah, that's the one. £6 for the blu-ray was too good to pass up. I've never seen the documentary either, so I'm :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You're in for a treat. Love the documentary. JR does a fantastic job (shocker) probing with the questions we have all been wondering for the past 15 years. It gets a little uncomfortable towards the end, and you can see how emotional both still are over what transpired.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doc would have been great if I didn't know everything already thanks to shoots, books and their own documentaries.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Despite a lot of matches only being mediocre, I love Wrestlemania XX. Main event is the greatest triple threat of all time, and is second on my favourite matches of all time list.

Cena vs. Big Show - **1/2
Christian vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/2
Rock/Sock vs. Evolution - **3/4
Undertaker vs. Kane - **3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle - ****
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit - *****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingCal said:


> Doc would have been great if I didn't know everything already thanks to shoots, books and their own documentaries.


Yeah, it was just a treat to see them actually sitting next to each other, something i honestly thought wouldn't happen.

Wish HBK could have _remembered_ more though...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingCal said:


> Doc would have been great if I didn't know everything already thanks to shoots, books and their own documentaries.


Yeah, but it's the first time they're ADDRESSING IT IN THE SAME ROOM AT THE SAME TIME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And saying the exact same stuff I've already heard. Being in the same room together did fuck all for me lol .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Hart/Michaels rivalry DVD? That documentary is GOAT-worthy.


Agreed. No other WWE Doc compares, goes as in-depth, and is so revealing. Doesn't hurt it includes two of the greatest ever, either.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cal I bet if Taker was included you'd rank it as GOAT. DON'T LIE TO ME, EITHER.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker in a sitdown shoot doc thingy? Of course it would! The guy hasn't appeared out of character for pretty much ANYTHING since like 03!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really hope Taker completely kills all this kayfabe shit once he retires. Would love a two hour shoot interview with him out of character post-retirement or a book on all the things he's gone through in his 20 something years in wrestling.

If I could be in a room with a wrestler for one hour completely out of character and able to ask them anything, Taker would definitely be my choice.

And Cal, he HAS appeared out of character since ABA died, here:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That actually would be pretty awesome. :side:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

And 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I did say PRETTY MUCH leaving space for error because I know he has done a couple of things. DON'T QUESTION MY UNDERTAKER KNOWLEDGE YOU TARDS.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What are people's thoughts on TLC2010? I've heard good things about Sheamus/GOAT, but the TLC 4-way and Cena/Barrett sound fun too (Cena was main eventing PPVs over the title even back then).


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Hart/Michaels DVD was pretty good. I didn't really think it was gonna take place with them being in the same room.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> What are people's thoughts on TLC2010? I've heard good things about Sheamus/GOAT, but the TLC 4-way and Cena/Barrett sound fun too (Cena was main eventing PPVs over the title even back then).


Thought the show was shite outside of Sheamus/Morrison which was awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stone Cold vs Kurt Angle (SummerSlam 2001) - ★★★★½ (Absolutely awesome match with a funny finish. But really, if wrestling was real, 90% of the Attitude Era matches would have ended by double count-out. They spend so much time brawling on the outside, might as well make all of them no count-out.)

Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2002) - ★★★¾ (Another fine technical back and forth between the two. Not as good as their RR 03 match, though. And the finishing stretch with the submission counters wasn't done quite as smoothly as that match. Still enjoyed the hell out of it.)


----------



## GNR4LIFE (Dec 27, 2012)

Would be awesome if they could release every Raw from say the 96-00 era on box sets

Also surely it couldn't hurt releasing a Survivor Series box set from 97 onwards. All thats available is up to 96


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Just had a watch of he first disc of the 'Falls Count Anywhere' DVD set. Foley as host is a logical choice and he is good in the role. As for match quality, it had been disappointing thus far. Nothing really exciting or griping. The best match is Cactus Jack vs Sting, and although some matches are good. I still am left feeling very underwhelmed.

Disc 2 covers Attitude Era matches though so here's to hoping the DVD can pick up some steam.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Just finished watching IYH: D-Generation X. Man, that show SUCKED. Legit contender for worst PPV the WWF/E have ever put on - my highest ranking was **1/2, and that was for a 6 minute match...

Taka Minchinoku vs Brian Cristopher (Light-Heavyweight Championship) - ***
Los Baricuas vs DOA - *1/2**
Marc Mero vs Butterbean (Toughman) - *DUD*
Road Dogg and Billy Gunn (c) vs Legion Of Doom (Tag Team Championship) - *3/4**
HHH vs Sgt. Slaughter (Bootcamp) - **1/4*
Jeff Jarrett vs The Undertaker - *1/2** 
Steve Austin (c) vs The Rock (Intercontinental Championship) - ***1/2*
Shawn Michaels (c) vs Ken Shamrock (WWF Championship) - ***1/4*​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed on the Survivor Series anthology idea. What a truly retarded idea to release HALF of a fucking anthology, what the hell were they thinking ?

Falls Count Anywhere ? It's such a disorganized, incoherent mess at times that I don't care for it in the slightest, despite having a few quality gems like the aforementioned Foley-Sting match. WE NEED MORE LINEAR SETS DAMNIT. 

Funny you mention the Summerslam 2001 match between Austin and Angle (which is a top 30-40 match ever in my book) , as I feel the Unforgiven match between them is one of the truly underrated gems of that era. ***** 1/4* all the way.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

When the fuck are Freemantle media gonna get their shit together?

They should have gotten the site up and running in time for the transfer of the licence.

Anyways on topic, watched a great triple threat match the night after WM 21 between Shelton, Jericho & Christian. such a fun match with a solid ending. *****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Thought the show was shite outside of Sheamus/Morrison which was awesome.


I love that Sheamus/Morrison match. Only thing I really bothered rewatching from that show. I remember kinda liking it as a whole though.

Thought your avatar was a really fat Jonah Hill for a second. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I thought the same, Brye.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TLK, do you have the MORRISON DVD? It's like $3 and it's got some fun stuff on it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I do not, kinda forgot it existed.  For $3 I'd pick it up. Gotta link?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

http://www.amazon.com/WWE-John-Morr...&qid=1357192633&sr=8-4&keywords=john+morrison

There's one for 3.42. (Y)

And the listing is in the reviews.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Consider it purchased. Thanks man. I don't think I've seen (or at least don't recall seeing) the matches vs Jericho, Edge or Hardy. I do remember him nailing his own SWEET CHIN MUSIC in that tag against DX.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Miz/Morrison really grew into a great tag team once they developed a personality. DIRT SHEET was always entertaining and their tag matches were usually pretty good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching RAW 100 and VINCE RUSSO randomly appears on it to introduce Hart's work-shoot on Vince from 1997... DA FUCK ?

I own that Morrison DVD and I could have sworn that it features a PUNK match that's also pretty awesome, with Morrison actually going over in the end over the current Champion, another example of WTF booking by the E' over the last few years. HOWEVER.... Morrison's DVD is worth it for DAT MATCH vs REY.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Watching RAW 100 and VINCE RUSSO randomly appears on it to introduce Hart's work-shoot on Vince from 1997... DA FUCK ?
> 
> I own that Morrison DVD and I could have sworn that it features a PUNK match that's also pretty awesome, with Morrison actually going over in the end over the current Champion, another example of WTF booking by the E' over the last few years. HOWEVER.... Morrison's DVD is worth it for DAT MATCH vs REY.


:lmao Yeah I was surprised to see Russo on there too. He wasn't even that self absorbed. I figured he'd come on and be like "yeah, I wrote that AND it got a 7.6 up against Monday Night Football!" or something but instead he sort of just commented on the segment.

And yep, they have Punk/Morrison from ECW '07 and SD '09. (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

6:20 - Tornado DDT counter into SWISS DEATH =


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^that was fuckin boss


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Morrison's DVD is dope. His matches with Punk on ECW TV are great contests regardless of who won. Their PPV bouts were...meh, they didn't have enough time to really get grooving. Morrison is hella underrated as a worker.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> 6:20 - Tornado DDT counter into SWISS DEATH =


I have never....seen anything that crazy in a loooooooong time. Cesaro is off the fuckin chain. 

I half-marked for him on Main Event last night when he slapped the Neutralizer on Khali...I full marked before that when he did a springboard uppercut. I don't know when the last time I've been in awe of a dude in ring but this is it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> 6:20 - Tornado DDT counter into SWISS DEATH =


Holy shit!

Cesaro has literally been on fire with his work.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He provides AT LEAST 1 "oh shit!" moment in every match. PLEASE give him 15-20 minutes w/Danielson or DOLPH.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^The 'E seriously need to get their ass in gear bringing new faces into the main event. Cesaro can become a bulldozer of a heel along with adding some more title reigns (you know, when they become prestigious again)and you have yourself the obstacle of a beast that is his Swedish Death. 

Just giving my two cents.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I just watched summerslam 2012 and Brock/Triple H was very disappointing. I gave it **1/2 and it barely got that. There was way to much standing around from Brock.i also didn't like the ending. Brock just takes a pedigree and immediately slaps on the kimura when Triple H goes for a cover.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I never understood Morrison hate on this forum. Around the time his contract was coming to an end everyone seemed to be happy to see him go.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Watching RAW 100 and VINCE RUSSO randomly appears on it to introduce Hart's work-shoot on Vince from 1997... DA FUCK ?
> 
> I own that Morrison DVD and I could have sworn that it features a PUNK match that's also pretty awesome, with Morrison actually going over in the end over the current Champion, another example of WTF booking by the E' over the last few years. HOWEVER.... Morrison's DVD is worth it for DAT MATCH vs REY.


Had the same reaction when i saw Russo on the NWO dvd. Morrison went over Punk on SD in back-to-back matches with the wtf booking for me being after the matches. After the 1st match Punk shakes Morrison's hand then gives him the GTS and after the 2nd match Morrison offers his hand and Punk refuses to shake it. You'd think it'd be the other way around.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> The problem with Punk/Cena is that once you've seen one, you've pretty much seen all. It's the same chain wrestle for a bit, bust out a sub, counter it, Punk hits a GTS, Cena kicks out, Cena hits AA and Punk kicks out, Punk attempts to hit a high spot but misses. Some more finisher kick outs. It's just the same crap all the time. It's like watching a watered down version of an ROH match. And by watered down I mean, it's missing about 20 more kick outs and a couple more high spots to be classified as an ROH match.


Eh, if you're going to generalise a match like that then it can be applied to almost any formula/style of match. Lawler matches are going to be slow start, punch, brawl, blood, strap down comeback, finish. Flair matches are going to be beginning full of schtick, extended Flair in peril segment, transition into Flair control, comeback, finish which more often than not isn't decisive. Lawler & Flair are two of my favourite guys period, let alone just strictly US wrestling. The point I'm making is that almost any wrestler who develops a style is going to build stages/phases of their match and then work a lot of spots/sequences around those themes. Punk/Cena has the character dynamic between the guy the company adores and the guy the older fans embrace as what they want in a pro wrestler. 

Most of their matches play off of Punk being billed as a more complete 'wrestler' and Cena trying to play his game with more chain wrestling and 'putting the marks in their place' than you'll get in a typical Cena match. The general theme of their matches tends to revolve around building a match which highlights their chemistry and Punk in particular being a perfect foil for Cena, who in the process puts in a performance you don't get out of him on a nightly basis and which ensures we get an intriguing match dynamic.

Their matches have finisher kickouts, but that's been a staple of WWE Main Event storytelling really since the Attitude Era exploded. WWE is built upon a live experience, hence why guys are given specific movesets and spots they'll plug into their match in order to generate a reaction: Orton doing the Viper coiling, Cena and the 'you can't see me' schtick, Edge having a meltdown in the corner setting up a spear, HBK nip up and SCM motion, Batista spinebuster into Warrior esque pulling of the ropes etc. Finisher kickouts aren't a problem per se, its when the finishers aren't protected, built to, sold extensively or generally just poorly timed that problems occur. People generally don't react to finishers on the Indy scene these days because very few are protected, because a lot of guys believe kicking out of it creates a better nearfall than building to the move being hit and the struggle the opponent has in trying to avoid certain defeat.

Punk had to kick out of two AAs at MITB, as well as not tapping to the STF. The match was built on elevating Punk character wise as well as the eye's of the casual fans as something far greater than they expected. He wasn't portrayed as a man whose mouth was talking a game he couldn't deliver, it was done to make fans question how they'd slept on a guy being able to take Cena to the limit. The nearfalls were also obviously done to milk the partisan Chicago crowd as well as the online audience who were hooked on the sympathetic workmanlike Punk trying to climb the mountain and disperse the golden boy Cena. I do wish that post MITB, they might be a little more creative with their finishes, but I like the way they build to and successfully counter the others' arsenal. Basically I don't get the impression especially from the MITB match, that the finishers in themselves aren't protected. Cena's image means the AA always feels like a victory even if plenty of people up and down the card have kicked out of it, and the GTS sans Cena is arguably the most protected finisher in the company, which made Bryan kicking out of it all the more impressive and unexpected.

The point about ROH and twenty finisher kickouts again feels an unnecessary generalisation. I'm by no means an endorser of 2012 ROH or a lot of the big Indy scene, but like WWE, New Japan, CMLL or other companies ROH has a style that when executed well lends itself to being unique whilst also embracing elements that make a great match: storytelling, build, character work, selling and pacing. I don't see how someone could watch Joe, Danielson and Nigel in their reigns and not get the impression that they're building a match with far more depth than strikes and kickouts. I just feel that sometimes you're too alienated and biased against independent wrestling that you'll throw unnecessary putdowns into an argument which doesn't need to be made. You didn't have to draw upon ROH or the indy scene when discussing Cena/Punk, or at the very least you could have made a better comparison instead of something that resembled a strawman's argument.


----------



## Brogue_Kick (Sep 11, 2011)

Just watched Top RAW 100 moments Disc 1.

If you want to remember old great and funny moments, this DVD is for you:

- Eugene as RAW GM for one night
- HBK and Jannety in the barber shop
- Vince McMahon bald
- Cena vs HBK match in London
- Edge retirement speech


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

WOOLCOCK FOR THE WIN! Great post.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Read Brock's book the other day, and it seems like he pretty much loves everybody in the wrestling business but despises everything about backstage politics and on the road travelling. It was really interesting when he talked about what he felt were his best matches ;

- vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)
- vs Hogan (Smackdown 2002)
- vs Rock (Summerslam 2002)
- vs Undertaker (Unforgiven 2002)
- vs Undertaker (No Mercy 2002) *; Brock Cites this is being his absolute best match in the book.*
- vs Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)

The book is really WRESTLING heavy which makes it awesome automatically, but you can tell by reading it how much respect he has for guys like Taker (who he talks about like the locker room godfather) and how he feels Taker is essentially the greatest ever. He even talks about his respect for Ric Flair, even though he claims he never wants to be anything like Flair. FUCK, he dedicates a whole chapter expressing his love for Curt Hennig, what a great book.... Even though I know this isn't a BOOK FORUM (that would be hilarious) but I just needed to say that it's awesome.

Made me think about something ; Lesnar's most underrated match and Lesnar's most overrated match.

The obvious pick for most underrated would have to be the Stretcher match with The Big Show @ Judgment Day 2003. I've been pimping that match as a classic and Show's best singles for seemingly almost 10 years now but it seems as if nobody wants to throw more than ***** at it. Fuck, a ton of people give it like... ****. Complete fucking nonsense, it's a fucking classic !

Overrated ? I don't know about this one... Probably Backlash 2003 vs John Cena, which I do really like for the absolute stiffness by both men..... But it's not a four star match like some people claim due to who's in it. Just because they wrestled a top 10 match in company history 9 years later doesn't make the earlier one any better... Even though it's still awesome

:brock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brocks book was ok, nothing special imo.

There are an elite few of us who dig the stretcher match with Show BTW. Still probably his most underrated match (that and SS Vs HHH it seems :side. Overrated? Fuck knows, he never really had a bad match. Short squashes were great, and his longer matches were great. Don't think many people consider his Cena 03 match to be anything special.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Read Jericho's second book in the same time-frame.... That guy is NEVER fucking happy with any of his matches it seems, unless it's an all-time classic. He refers to himself as basically being a TERRIBLE worker when it comes to the WWE style in 99 and 00 , and basically comes out and says that Hunter carried him in their Fully Loaded classic.

He fucking LOVES his matches with Rock, Hunter, and Benoit, and cites ROCK as being probably his best opponent in the WWE. Probably the most optimistic I've ever seen Benoit and his death portrayed since that horrible day, and I know *Choke2Death* would really enjoy reading about it. 

Yeah, you're right about the HHH match... WHY DOES EVERYBODY HATE THAT SO MUCH... IT IS AN AWESOME MATCH YOU FUCKERS  ... I just think that in this day in age it seems like everybody either hates Trips, or hates Brock's distinct style... Or both.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Okay, I'm going to watch Lenar/Show JD and Lesnar/HHH in a while.

Also, what was the WWE style in '99? Was Jericho referring to the brawling style that was so popular back then?

A match with Lesnar that I find underrated in terms of the snowflakes, is vs Rock at SS 2002. Come on people! That match is at least 4 stars!! I've seen people throw 3 snowflakes at it and even Wrestling GOD himself, Dave Meltzer, threw 3 and a half snowflakes. The crowd was hot, the match had tons of drama, great story telling and it's considered to be in the same league as a Kofi Kingston and Dolph Ziggler? Wtf?

Another underrated one is Vs Show at Survivor Series.. Once again, people rate it very lowly. The Wrestling GOD gave it one star! One freaking star for one of the most shocking moments in WWE history? At least 2 and a half snowflakes, maybe 3. But one? One would suggest that the match was poorly worked and boring, IT WASN'T!


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Backlash 2001 - 30-Minute Ultimate Submission Match: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit*

There were a lot of great parts, and about 95% of it made sense. But there were some logic flaws in it though. Both men worked down the body parts that would help lock in their respective finishers to start, but then at some point switched it up as Angle started working on the arm and Benoit on the leg. I'm guess that was because they wanted to beat the other with their OWN submisson move, they did have some good psychology and intensity though, but a lot of the stuff just didn't seem to go anywhere and the fast submissions really hurt don't get me wrong it's smart to tapout fast and "Live to fight another day" but doing it 6 times. C'MON. I would have liked more actual limbwork, but this isn't bad. Could have been better, but worth seeing. ***1/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I didn't like the Top 100 RAW moments all that much, tbh. 

As for the Russo moment on the DVD, I'm pretty sure that was taken from some other DVD. A lot of WWE's DVDs feature commentary from other DVDs. All the commentary from Austin (and one from Jericho) was from his recent release. 

Also, I found that disc 3 could have least included some of those moments in full length. The you had guys talking over the damn thing. I just didn't like. It was decent enough, I guess.

@WOOLOCK, Here's my take on Punk/Cena. 

Punk/Cena MITB *****
Punk/Cena Summerslam **** 
Punk/Cena NOC ****
Punk/Cena RAW **

I hated their RAW encounter. It was a finisher fest. There's no denying it. 

MITB is perfection, the rest tried to follow. Great encounters though. I am a fan of their matches as you can see but I can understand why others would hate he matches that followed MITB.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Survivor Series match was AWESOME for how long it was.

Jericho was referring to the more mapped out style that WWE has than any other Wrestling company in the world. It was new to Jericho to have his matches mapped out with an agent , and featuring a long heel control segment with a subsequent babyface comeback that's WWE's bread and butter formula. Here was a guy who in Japan, Mexico, ECW, WCW, etc, had a more free range style, but that shit dosen't fly in WWE apparently.

Something interesting that Jericho cites in his book is how much he fucking ADORES particular matches such as his match with Shelton at Taboo Tuesday 2004, and his match with Trips at Judgment Day 2002 which he likes to refer to as "groundbreaking".... He HATES his first two Mania matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Russo has only been part of 2 WWE DVD's that I'm aware of; Attitude and Raw 1000. Likely he recorded that bit for the AE DVD set but it didn't make it onto the doc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm glad those are the only two DVDs you mentioned


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> @WOOLOCK, Here's my take on Punk/Cena.
> 
> Punk/Cena MITB *****
> Punk/Cena Summerslam ****
> ...


Haven't seen the Raw match, but I said a few weeks back I'd watch it since I saw it getting some praise. Will probably watch it tonight assuming I don't get distracted (which is more than likely).

I really liked the NOC encounter, especially as a nice homage to MITB with the roles reversed and Punk now controlling the match like the star he considered himself to be and countering all of Cena's trademark offence but slowly growing unhinged at his inability to finish the match. I didn't think the nearfalls were as greatly timed as they were at MITB, but there was only one instance where I thought a kickout wasn't sold as well as it should have been (think it was Cena springing up to hit a surprise AA). I can see why the nearfalls didn't hold as much impact here to some. At MITB it was unexpected and people didn't know what was going down, whereas since then fans have become conditioned to expect at least 1 big kickout from each man and subsequently both men have to work harder to time their nearfalls to cover up the belief that the fans can guess when the match will end. NOC was by no means perfect, but it was a fine callback to MITB and a nice extension of the story, albeit surrounded by a less partisan and magical atmosphere which really elevates the MITB encounter (though I'm a firm believer that the actual ringwork in MITB was purely special).


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

He was also interviewed for the nWo release for about 2 minutes. 

Lesnar's best match? Undecided, but his match against Cena (2012) is a tonne of fun to watch. 

Underrated - vs. Big Show at J'Day 03, I fucking love this match. 

Overrated - Hmm, hard to pick really because nearly all his matches were good/great and the Triple H match isn't praised by enough for me to say it's overrated.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah, that NWO doc. Kinda forgot that even existed :lmao.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

The only thing I like about the blu-ray I got was the Legend of Wrestling Roundtable that came with it.

Some of the matches are okay too, but the doc itself was a bit disappointing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Lesnar : Two years working for the E'. Three of my top 23 matches ever (just checked my rankingz out for reference)

What a fucking beast of a short career. Seems like every single one of his matches (BESIDES XX) that went over ten minutes was atleast ***** , something I can't say about basically anybody else in the history of the business. If he was around for 10+ years, I'm sure he'd be approaching GOAT WWE worker status by now... Seriously


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> I never understood Morrison hate on this forum. Around the time his contract was coming to an end everyone seemed to be happy to see him go.


He lacks charisma and presence and just doesn't draw you in, AT ALL! One of the worst opening segments to a RAW EVER IMO was between him and R Truth the week after Rock/Cena announced their match. 






If ever a segment has died, its this one.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Does Brock even work in WWE anymore? This latest "run" of his has been massively disappointing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, he signed a 1 year contract, but he had limited appearances, so they have been saving him for the RTWM. Hasn't been disappointing for me so far since he's given me 2 epic matches and a couple of great moments like the brawl with Cena where he busted him open and that great video interview. PISS.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I just thought he would...I don't know, be alittle bit more of a factor. 2 matches in almost a years time is pretty disappointing. The one with Cena was alright (but I HATE the "WWE'D up" wanna-be UFC style). The one with Trips was terrible, IMO.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed W/ Cal on all points.

I REALLY want him to sign another deal with the company, and I believe it's likely if they continue to throw vast sums of money at him for minimal work like they've been doing. He could seriously do this for another 10 fucking years if he wanted, and in the process accumulate a fortune. Likely he stays another year and gets that INSANE WRESTLEMANIA XXX payday.

If reading his book as taught me anything about the man, it's that he's gonna main event to make the most money as possible (swear that he mentions money in every sentence :lol ) , and couple that with his love of working with Rock and it becomes blatantly obvious that we're getting Lesnar-Rock at XXIX or XXX at this point. Maybe the triple threat match with Cena being involved as well.

Lesnar's biggest desires in life are to accumulate money and spend time with his family. Swear to god, his situation right now is fucking PERFECT.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I agree that Morrison isn't great on the mic but not everyone has to be the total package in regards to having both mic skills and in ring skills. One of the biggest stars in WWE's recent history is Jeff Hardy and he couldn't work a mic for toffee. The due was OVER as well as having a great look to him , always felt he could deliver a WOW moment at any point in his matches. Just needed a better finisher. 


On the LESNAR contract talk I don't know why he wouldn't sign another deal . Make about 30 appearances a year , wrestle a couple of matches and make a few million dollars. He doesn't even have to do mic work now that he is back w/ Heyman just wrestle and be a BEAST ( which I think he legitimately enjoys).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I liked him in UFC. Find him to be slow and plodding in WWE. And like I said, I hate the fake UFC pre-fab stuff. You know going into every match what type of match it's going to be. 

#VERSATILITY


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Personally, I'd love to see him and 'Taker go at it. The 'UFC Style' would work for those two, plus it'd be pretty good to see Undertaker get the shit kicked out of him for a bit.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

YoungGun_UK said:


> He lacks charisma and presence and just doesn't draw you in, AT ALL! One of the worst opening segments to a RAW EVER IMO was between him and R Truth the week after Rock/Cena announced their match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, but I think Morrison makes up for it in the ring. People bring up that he takes tons of moves from other guys, but I still find his matches consistent and way more watchable than someone like Wade Barrett or The Miz (who are both constantly placed on a pedestal). Every time they let him go out to the ring and have lots of time with someone, he'd usually deliver for me. Mainly his matches with Punk, Mysterio, and Ziggler. Might I even add that he got a few decent matches out of the miz?

Anyways, while I don't think he's as good, he is sort of like an RVD to me. Athletic and unorthodox in the ring (RVD being more original), but perhaps not the best on the mic. I do think RVD worked the crowd a lot better and is just overall a better worker than Morrison, but I don't see why you can't utilize a guy like Morrison the way RVD was used in his career. You don't necessarily have to make him THE top face of the company or anything, just someone who looks like he belongs in the main event at least.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> Personally, I'd love to see him and 'Taker go at it. The 'UFC Style' would work for those two, plus it'd be pretty good to see Undertaker get the shit kicked out of him for a bit.


I was just going to post a question about this:

Is the Taker/Lesnar heat work or shoot? I saw the moment they had when Taker went to the UFC fight last year and asked Brock if he "wants to do it" (fight, not fuck, I assume). So, is it work or shoot between them? And would they have a match (WWE, of course)? That's one Brock WWE match I'd be interested in.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Lesnar put on some good matches...during his initial run. I feel he's massively overrated by a lot of people. I personally think his best match was the Taker HIAC match (all their matches were dope though) but his matches with Angle were very good as was his match with Eddie at NWO. Rock match at SS '02 was cool as well...I wouldn't say "great" but it was a good match, a lot of fun to watch. 


I dislike Big Show and never saw a Lesnar/Show match I felt I needed to see again. I think his most underrated match is the match he had with Test at KOTR 2002...it was a pretty good match to me. 


That match with Triple H this past Summerslam was disappointing but it wasn't horrible, just not what I'd expected. 


Lesnar isn't worth the money they spending on him, so I don't see a reason to re-sign him. Especially not for $5 million dollars and he only worked 2 events all year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I was just going to post a question about this:
> 
> Is the Taker/Lesnar heat work or shoot? I saw the moment they had when Taker went to the UFC fight last year and asked Brock if he "wants to do it" (fight, not fuck, I assume). So, is it work or shoot between them? And would they have a match (WWE, of course)? That's one Brock WWE match I'd be interested in.


Nobody is really sure lol. Its always said that they have heat since Undertaker didn't like how Brock came in, got a huge push, have some of the biggest names ever put him over no problem... only for him to leave after 2 years. However I think a lot of people believe that the line "you wanna do this?" or whatever it was exactly, was WWE's way of reaching out to Lesnar to begin some kind of contract negotiations.

But like I said, nobody is really sure .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock cites in his book that Taker was his favorite opponent to actually WORK WITH in the ring, and that he has a ton of respect for the man. It could definitely work and I would love to see the match, but I don't think we'll be seeing it to be honest... Even though I think it's more likely than Brock-Trips II.

WE AREN'T GETTING Brock-Trips II. IT MAKES NO SENSE. Both men fucking know that it's not going to do anything for anybody, including the buyrate (EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE AN AWESOME MATCH NO DOUBT  )


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I liked him in UFC. Find him to be slow and plodding in WWE. And like I said, I hate the fake UFC pre-fab stuff. You know going into every match what type of match it's going to be.
> 
> #VERSATILITY



As someone who also watches UFC, Lesnar's MMA career is massively overrated. He's not a bad fighter at all though. His UFC run was very similar to his initial WWE run where he was given the ball before having any real way of establishing he deserved it. He won 2 fights and got a title shot....that's pathetic. Dana White isn't much different from Vince McMahon in that regard.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Nobody is really sure lol. Its always said that they have heat since Undertaker didn't like how Brock came in, got a huge push, have some of the biggest names ever put him over no problem... only for him to leave after 2 years. However I think a lot of people believe that the line "you wanna do this?" or whatever it was exactly, was WWE's way of reaching out to Lesnar to begin some kind of contract negotiations.
> 
> But like I said, nobody is really sure .


Thanks. I was always curious about that. I'd love to see that match at this years WM, but I'm not counting on it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lesnar is straight up #MONEY , that's why they gave him the title shot in the first place. Guy is the biggest PPV attraction of all time.

I love Trips, but he isn't the reason Summerslam did as great as it did, it was because............ What am I talking about, BUYRATES ? I'm going to shut my mouth right now before you all lock my away in the GOAT thread forever :lol


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> Brock cites in his book that Taker was his favorite opponent to actually WORK WITH in the ring, and that he has a ton of respect for the man. It could definitely work and I would love to see the match, but I don't think we'll be seeing it to be honest... Even though I think it's more likely than Brock-Trips II.
> 
> *WE AREN'T GETTING Brock-Trips II. IT MAKES NO SENSE. Both men fucking know that it's not going to do anything for anybody, including the buyrate (EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE AN AWESOME MATCH NO DOUBT*  )



I'm guessing if we don't then Lesnar/Undertaker but as it stands right now, I'll put my money on HHH/Lesnar II at Wrestlemania.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

jonoaries said:


> Lesnar put on some good matches...during his initial run. I feel he's massively overrated by a lot of people. I personally think his best match was the Taker HIAC match (all their matches were dope though) but his matches with Angle were very good as was his match with Eddie at NWO. Rock match at SS '02 was cool as well...I wouldn't say "great" but it was a good match, a lot of fun to watch.
> 
> 
> I dislike Big Show and never saw a Lesnar/Show match I felt I needed to see again. I think his most underrated match is the match he had with Test at KOTR 2002...it was a pretty good match to me.
> ...


Agree that he is massively overrated by some. To even be in the discussion for greatest of all time, you need a body of work more than a year or two. Just the way it is.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It makes NO SENSE to have that match. Trips will probably just be involved with The Undertaker match or something, since Trips is involved with basically everything The Undertaker is involved in Kayfabe wise nowadays.

What's the biggest match that WWE can put on right now ? Lesnar-Rock. IT WILL HAPPEN EVENTUALLY.

Nobody has Lesnar in the GOAT discussion BECAUSE of what you just said ; his body of work simply isn't large enough. However, it's a great enough sample size that when you think about it.... He was certainly on pace to be one of the best workers ever. He could work well with ANYBODY, and his only bad match in my mind was his last one for obvious reasons.

If he sticked around, the guys he would have potentially locked up with on PPV were endless, as I'm certain he would have ended up on RAW taking on the likes of HBK, HHH, Jericho, Benoit, etc... years upon years of solid matches with great opponents would have given him QUITE an impressive match catalogue. No doubt we would have gotten Lesnar-HHH in the main event of Wrestlemania XXI.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

PUNK V CENA

MITB 2011 *****
SS 2011 ****1/2 
NOC 2012 ****1/4

Shame we didn't get Punk V Cena HIAC. Instead we got..... yeah. That man.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> It makes NO SENSE to have that match. Trips will probably just be involved with The Undertaker match or something, since Trips is involved with basically everything The Undertaker is involved in Kayfabe wise nowadays.
> 
> What's the biggest match that WWE can put on right now ? Lesnar-Rock. IT WILL HAPPEN EVENTUALLY.


Lesnar is a hot commodity out here and while Its possible they pull Lesnar/Rock. There's a perfect set up....if Lesnar helps Punk retain at Rumble...then the match is set very easily. However I'm guessing Undertaker isn't going to let Lesnar get away without facing him and it makes no sense to have it at Extreme Rules.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

But if it isn't HHH/Lesnar then what?

You can't leave the will HHH retire storyline just floating around.HE DIDN'T DO DAT TEAR FOR NOTHING.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> PUNK V CENA
> 
> MITB 2011 *****
> SS 2011 ****1/2
> ...


Don't remind me. Would have been another classic in the books I'm sure. Fuck Ryback, he ruins everything.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Backlash 2001 - WWF Heavyweight Championship, Intercontinental Championship & Tag Team Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin & Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) vs. The Undertaker & Kane*

Whoever gets the pin wins the title E.G. If his team would win he and Taker retain the tag titles and Kane would be the WWF Champion. As for Taker. The real story to this one is Kane’s injured arm, which was brutally beat by Austin and Triple H in the days leading up to the PPV. This did not need to be 27 minutes, AT ALL!. They pretty much killed time for 10 minutes, before the actual story began. Taker wanted to keep Kane out because of the bad arm, and then they finally isolated Kane and worked the arm. But the heat segment on Kane was fuckin' brutal and made this more fun. The finish was pretty predictable and you might think the Power Trip winning the titles was a big deal, but really they were rapidly losing meaning cause since NWO 2001 2 months ago the titles have changed hands SIX times. **1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for that tag. Epic stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love that tag match  

I gave it ****** on the last watch, and I'm standing by that. Same rating as Taker-Austin from Judgment Day 2001, their best match together by far.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Really hope we get Cena/Rock for the title and Lesnar taking on Undertaker for the streak. Hunter can stay this one out or have some random match to get another WM victory since he's starting to look like a WM jobber since he's only won 4 out of his 10 or something WM matches in the last decade.

Similar to how Lesnar/Hunter has the mixed feelings on it with the supporters that don't mind it happening again, I feel that way about Rock/Cena. Plus the thought of Cena possibly turning heel makes it exciting even though I know I set myself up for disappointment in this one.



Best In The North Pole said:


> Read Brock's book the other day, and it seems like he pretty much loves everybody in the wrestling business but despises everything about backstage politics and on the road travelling. It was really interesting when he talked about what he felt were his best matches ;
> 
> The book is really WRESTLING heavy which makes it awesome automatically, but you can tell by reading it how much respect he has for guys like Taker (who he talks about like the locker room godfather) and how he feels Taker is essentially the greatest ever. He even talks about his respect for Ric Flair, even though he claims he never wants to be anything like Flair. FUCK, he dedicates a whole chapter expressing his love for Curt Hennig, what a great book.... Even though I know this isn't a BOOK FORUM (that would be hilarious) but I just needed to say that it's awesome.
> 
> Made me think about something ; Lesnar's most underrated match and Lesnar's most overrated match.


Lesnar is absolutely awesome. I really need to check out 2002 too so I can consider myself fully familiar with his entire career as I've watched everything from 03 and 04 as well as every single appearance last year.

Underrated: either vs Big Show at JD or vs Benoit at Smackdown. The latter would have probably gotten more attention if it was on PPV. Sucks they never officially got a real feud.

Overrated: Really don't know, maybe vs Angle at WM XIX. It was a great match and all, but I think SummerSlam was better and gets overlooked in WM's favor. The crowd was completely dead (understandable after the Hogan/Vince & Rock/Austin matches) and since Angle had a bad neck, they took it easy with a bit of restholds overkill.



Best In The North Pole said:


> Read Jericho's second book in the same time-frame.... That guy is NEVER fucking happy with any of his matches it seems, unless it's an all-time classic. He refers to himself as basically being a TERRIBLE worker when it comes to the WWE style in 99 and 00 , and basically comes out and says that Hunter carried him in their Fully Loaded classic.
> 
> He fucking LOVES his matches with Rock, Hunter, and Benoit, and cites ROCK as being probably his best opponent in the WWE. Probably the most optimistic I've ever seen Benoit and his death portrayed since that horrible day, and I know *Choke2Death* would really enjoy reading about it.
> 
> Yeah, you're right about the HHH match... WHY DOES EVERYBODY HATE THAT SO MUCH... IT IS AN AWESOME MATCH YOU FUCKERS  ... I just think that in this day in age it seems like everybody either hates Trips, or hates Brock's distinct style... Or both.


Jericho reminds me of myself. Every time I look back at something I've done in the past, I'm always like "damn, that sucks".

I also don't get it when it comes to his take on the Benoit tragedy. One interview you hear him say "How can you even watch his matches now?" then another minute, he's defending him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's only a few more weeks until the bitching and complaining about Mania booking begins 

In his book, Jericho portrays Benoit as a great man with a HORRIBLE few final days, as I believe he should be portrayed. Whenever he mentions a great Benoit match, Jericho writes in brackets 'it's a shame that this match doesn't actually exist'. The parallel nature of both Benoit's and Eddie's deaths are pointed out, about how Eddie went from the bottom to the top to end his career, while Benoit nosedived about as far as you could nosedive. Two best friends dying, with opposite memories of both.

It's a shame, because Benoit was one of those special workers that only comes along once in a lifetime. Fuck, they put him in the newest WWE Encyclopedia, so maybe they'll become more open to Benoit matches on DVD in the future. We need his matches vs Austin, Trips, and the 2MPT tag on DVD right fucking now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best In The North Pole said:


> It's only a few more weeks until the bitching and complaining about Mania booking begins
> 
> In his book, Jericho portrays Benoit as a great man with a HORRIBLE few final days, as I believe he should be portrayed. Whenever he mentions a great Benoit match, Jericho writes in brackets 'it's a shame that this match doesn't actually exist'. The parallel nature of both Benoit's and Eddie's deaths are pointed out, about how Eddie went from the bottom to the top to end his career, while Benoit nosedived about as far as you could nosedive. Two best friends dying, with opposite memories of both.
> 
> It's a shame, because Benoit was one of those special workers that only comes along once in a lifetime. Fuck, they put him in the newest WWE Encyclopedia, so maybe they'll become more open to Benoit matches on DVD in the future. We need his matches vs Austin, Trips, and the 2MPT tag on DVD right fucking now.


The encyclopedia entry was absolutely awesome. Even though I didn't notice anything new on there, it's almost a full page now whereas the first one back in 2008/09 was not even half a page. Happy they've done that, because he deserves it. Although the WWE.com site still kills me every time I read an article they put up about the past and completely ignore anything involving Benoit. Their recent article is on New Year's Revolution and for 2005, they only put up that stupid Lita/Trish match that got cut short with Lita's knee injury while not even featuring a sample video of the chamber at least after Benoit was out. (and he was one of the first guys eliminated) The worst of them has to be the "history guide" on the US Championship where they completely skip all the years where Benoit was involved in the scene.

One thing I like about this thread is the fact that I can discuss Benoit's matches and career without some jackass going "this scumbag killed his family, fuck his wrestling career".


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

*NO MERCY 2007*

*Orton(c) vs HHH* wwe title match : Good match. Well executed. ***

*Hardy/Kendrick/London vs Kennedy/Cade/Murdoch* : the 2 last minutes are fun.**

*CM Punk(c) vs Big Daddy V* ECW title match : 2 min match. 1/2 *

*HHH vs Umaga Wwe* title match : Not really good but it's here to prepare the LMS match later. Umaga is working on HHH ribs. ** 

*Rey vs Finlay* : Good pace, good match. Strange ending but the feud continues. ***

*Batista vs khali* WHC match (punjabi prison) : The punjabi prison match is a weird gimmick match but it's okay. Batista's jump at the end adds 1/2*. So **1/2

*HHH(c) vs Orton* wwe title match (LMS) : I don't like LMS matches because i love crazy kickouts but this one is awesome. The first part is about HHH bad ribs, and his selling is great. Then the match becomes very brutal with nice spots. HHH destroys Orton's head with a steelstep shot(it's a must see). Great great moves from both guys and great selling. The final rko is a beauty. **** 1/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There should be a clear separation between Benoit the worker and Benoit the man in his final few days. None of us knew him personally so can only go by what others say in interviews, which seems to be he was a loner albeit a man no-one thought capable of what he ultimately did. I can understand why people don't look at his matches the same, and truth be told to an extent there's a part of me that thinks that even when watching a Benoit match these days. That being said, it doesn't make his offence bad, his good selling doesn't suddenly become terrible and his overall advantages as a worker should be recognised and only critiqued objectively if people find weaknesses without pointing to his suicide.

I don't blame WWE for not putting him on DVDs etc. There's enough trivial moaning on social media these days without WWE having to stomach a media shitstorm if people started saying they were cashing in on a killer. Benoit's work is known to those before him and easily accessible for younger people especially with online forums. In today's WWE he's irrelevant from a storyline/archive perspective and WWE don't need bad press by including him in packages/DVDs when it isn't terribly needed. It is a shame a lot of his work will go amiss to a new generation of fans, but such is life and the unfortunate actions on his part before his death sadly make it impossible for WWE to ever promote him in any manner.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And speaking of Benoit, watched the 04 Rumble last night. Its still fantastic. Benoit lasting from #1 to win it, Show being booked like a legit threat in the match which made Benoit's elimination of him that much better, Undertaker's GONG getting one of the biggest pops of the night, Nunzio avoiding entering the ring, FOLEY attacking Test and stealing his spot so he can destroy Orton, Goldberg spearing the fuck out of everyone (mainly Nunzio lol) then having Lesnar F-5 him causing him to be eliminated, and probably some other highlights I'm forgetting. All in all a tremendous Rumble. Might not actually make my top 5 Rumble matches, but that's because I just fucking adore the RR in general and really fucking like a lot of them.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

As it stands right now we AREN'T getting Taker/Brock, Brock/HHH or Cena/Rock II. Heck, as it stands right now, we don't even know who's going to the main event after winning the rumble. Jesus, I swear, some of you really do know how to take the fun out of this shit with all this speculating bullshit. Whatever happened to just sitting back and watching all unfold before your eyes?

Also, why would anyone in their right mind want to see Cena/Rock II? Wasn't the first enough? Haven't they disappointed us enough? Do we really want 3 months of "You beat me the last time, but I will never give up! 10 years!!" "Monkey-ass candy-ass bitch, I will layeth the smackdown on your candy-ass again!" "10 years!!!! Never give up!!!"

And wouldn't Cena/Rock II kind of defeat the purpose of Once In A Lifetime? And all the bs marketing spent on Once In A Lifetime?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I love HHH about as much as anyone on this forum, but I really don't want to see HHH/Lesnar at Mania. I think it'd be an awesome match, especially on that big of a stage, but it's all but confirmed that HHH would go over. If Lesnar doesn't re-sign after Mania, I guess it doesn't really matter. Then again, if he loses he might as well not re-sign because his heat would be gone.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Had WWE not do the cumshot first and then try to go backwards, Cena/Lesnar II (III) would be more intriguing than Brock/Trips or Taker/Brock. But it makes no sense having a face win and then the heel coming back with a vengeance and winning. I know there are some that would welcome the idea but to me, it's ass-backwards booking.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In all fairness ; Rock's going to be belting out that nonsense no matter WHO HE IS FEUDING WITH. If it's Punk, it's gonna be "#WALRUSPARTS TRENDING, CM BITCH" or some ridiculous line like that, if it's Cena, we're gonna get the same "Kung Pow Bitch" shenanigans we got in their horrendous feud from earlier this year. If it's Lesnar, it's gonna be some kind of Gorilla insult with Rock making a bunch of childish noises and sound effects.

It's still better than Ryback :lol


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> As it stands right now we AREN'T getting Taker/Brock, Brock/HHH or Cena/Rock II. Heck, as it stands right now, we don't even know who's going to the main event after winning the rumble. Jesus, I swear, some of you really do know how to take the fun out of this shit with all this speculating bullshit. Whatever happened to just sitting back and watching all unfold before your eyes?
> 
> Also, why would anyone in their right mind want to see Cena/Rock II? Wasn't the first enough? Haven't they disappointed us enough? Do we really want 3 months of "You beat me the last time, but I will never give up! 10 years!!" "Monkey-ass candy-ass bitch, I will layeth the smackdown on your candy-ass again!" "10 years!!!! Never give up!!!"
> 
> And wouldn't Cena/Rock II kind of defeat the purpose of Once In A Lifetime? And all the bs marketing spent on Once In A Lifetime?


Nobody wants to see that at all. Its all just speculation. We have awhile before it becomes apparent, so its fun to speculate, besides its so many big matches that COULD happen, its the first time in a long time Rock & Lesnar have been involved in WM at the same time.

Its difficult right now to fill in the blanks because we don't know who is going to be involved. Is H retired? Is undertaker even wrestling this year? Is Orton & Punk who are tops of the current era going to be feature prominently? Lots of good questions we can speculate on. 


This WM has the potential to be one of the biggest ever, and people are just trying to figure out what would be the headliners.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ sharkboy - Exactly. The finish to Cena/Lesnar irks me to no end. The only way I can see Lesnar going over Trips again is if Trips actually does hang up the boots. That being said, I can't see Trips' final opponent being Lesnar. I'd say it'd be Shawn, but I don't think he's coming out of retirement.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In a universe where booking makes sense ; Punk gets his win back from Trips at Mania. That's who should retire Trips due to the absolute fuckery that was the booking of Punk going into and after Night of Champions 2011. 

Watching RAW 1000 right now, and DAMN it's really nice to see Trips and Lesnar in the same segment. That sick smile by Lesnar is just devious as all fuck  . Remember not really adoring Punk-Cena from the show very much, but we'll see how it holds up to their other TV matches. This is the BIGGEST Raw I can remember EVER.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wouldn't say the finish irks me. As a matter of fact the finish made the match just that damn more good imo. It's just that the finish meant that the feud ends there. They simply can't go on with it because the babyface got the win. 

I'm not so sure why Cena got the win. According to the rumours, he was looking to take time off round that time (my sig lol which btw I did not create, I actually found it on google images) but i don't know if it's true. Who knows if any of these rumours are true? i don't know if they thought Lesnar would never appear again, no one knows why they did it but hey, poster boy got the win

@jono, every WM has potential to be the greatest. I remember when WM 26 (of all Manias) had potential to be the best since 17!

While we're still on the topic of Lesnar matches, I hate that Summerslam match. Something but Lesnar actually grabbing the rope, the ref not allowing the break, and Angle just pulling him back to the centre just irked. It's a match that just annoyed me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena cutting a promo after getting destroyed by Lesnar hinting at an injury angle would've made the finish acceptable. Him appearing on Raw the following night as happy as can be ruined it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Started watching the ECW 2006 pack that I downloaded. Good Lord, after watching some episodes, I think I understand why WWE went PG now lol. Right before Extreme Expose they show you two kids jumping up and down. They were probably 11 which is how old I was back then. Only different is, I wasn't watching the show with my mom. Man, that Extreme Expose must have left tons of mothers with hanging jaws.

2006 was a ridiculous year for WWE. Edge and Lita Live Sex and Extreme Expose which iirc did make it's way over to SD and perhaps RAW as well? I remember there was a time when it was Layla, Kelly and Eve. And something with Miz and a lapdance. Yeah 2006 was a ridiculous year and all this shit was taking place post-Attitude. 

Btw, can't wait till I reach Extreme Strip poker!! lol. I remember having one eye glued to the TV in room and the other through the door looking to see if anyone was coming. Good times. Wasn't worth it though, damn censors!!!

But man did ECW have potential. Some really good characters they had. I miss Ariel and Kevin Thorne.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cena cutting a promo after getting destroyed by Lesnar hinting at an injury angle would've made the finish acceptable. Him appearing on Raw the following night as happy as can be ruined it.


The speech Cena gave after the match pisses me off still soo much, i just wanted Lesnar to just run back out and F5 the crap out of him, then Kimura lock him for about a week..


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2006 is probably the most Attitude Era-like year WWE has had _after_ AE itself. Not just the sexual content but also a lot of bleeding in matches too and brutal stuff like Edge/Foley.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> The speech Cena gave after the match pisses me off still soo much, i just wanted Lesnar to just run back out and F5 the crap out of him, then Kimura lock him for about a week..


This. I actually cringed when it took place, but if he legit was taking time off and Lesnar was going to be the kayfabe reason, it would've been acceptable. The way things turned out, I have zero idea why that speech made it live on the PPV. After PPV goes off the air? Sure, say what you want.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget during the "epic" build to Rock/Cena that Cena was laying it on thick about how he NEEDS to win and shit... then he didn't and no fucks were given from him.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wow and I thought Kelly's Expose with Candice was the best but dam the one from 7.18.06 (ha ha I type it like it was a match or something) blew it out the water. This ECW be bringing back all kinds of fapping memories.

Oh yeah and now that i sawm I do recall Show/Flair. Damn that match was awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Lesnar finish will forever piss me off no matter how much I absolutely ADORE everything that happens prior to it. 100% bullshit.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't even watch Cena's promo post-Lesnar match because I found it in poor taste. Even if he was leaving he didn't need to announce it right at that moment.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck and I ON THE SAME PAGE AGAIN~!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

You know what could have been more awesome that Flair/Show? Taker/Show!

Match was going so damn good until Khali interrupted. Is Khali like the most fucking laziest wrestler ever? Evertyhing he does, it's so slow and lazy! It's like he could care less. The way he walks looks retarded, the way he throws a punch is even more retarded. Everything about the big goof just sucks!


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Show was on a roll during ECW. Best work of his career in my opinion.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Big Z said:


> Don't forget during the "epic" build to Rock/Cena that Cena was laying it on thick about how he NEEDS to win and shit... then he didn't and no fucks were given from him.


Yep. This is why I hate Cena more and more every week. He says one thing, but then acts the complete opposite. Cuts a promo about how that match meant everything and then later on during the night when he gets to be face to face with the Rock, he's grinning like an idiot who doesn't take it seriously. It could be the writing, seeing as often times bad writers will tell you one thing and then show you another thing, but I still hate Cena's character because of this.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Starbuck and I ON THE SAME PAGE AGAIN~!


WE ALWAYZ ON DA SAME PAGE DURR

I ordered more from Silvervision and it arrived today. Legit think I've spent close to £100 now. Fuck. Still waiting to see what these new FreeMantle people are like though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I really don't want Trips/Lesnar at WM, for obvious reasons. The only thing that would be entertaining about that match is the crowd reaction has the potential to be something like this...






Multiply it by at least 4, though. Considering MSG is an arena that holds about 20,000 people and the new Giants Stadium (Giants fan here, it will always be Giants Stadium to those of us in NY/NJ, even a good deal of Jets fans in NY/NJ feel this way) holds about 82,000 people, which they could add on for wrestling, since there will be floor seats. So, multiply the MSG crowd by 4 and imagine the fun atmosphere that could be had. Hoo-boy!


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2001*

Dudleyz vs. Edge & Christian - ***
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (Ladder Match) - ****
Ivory vs. Chyna - DUD
Triple H vs. Kurt Angle - ***1/2
Royal Rumble Match - ***1/2

Overall - 9/10

This is one of those rare shows where I really enjoyed myself throughout most of it, despite only having one match that I would call "amazing".


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Royal Rumble 2001*

The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge and Christian - ** 3/4
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit - **** 1/2
Ivory vs. Chyna - Can't remember
Triple H vs. Kurt Angle - *** 1/4
Royal Rumble match - *** 3/4 

Despite the low rating, the tag match is crazy fun. Jericho/Benoit is the GOAT Singles ladder match so that speaks for it's self. I expected a definite MOTYC from HHH/Angle and was dissappointing just because of my high expectations but it's still worth watching and the Rumble match it's self is all sorts of fun.

Overall - FUN/10 aka ***3/4


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Wrestlemania X-Seven*

Chris Jericho vs. William Regal - ***
TAZ & APA vs. Right to Censor - DUD
Kane vs. Raven vs. Big Show - ***
Eddie Guerrero vs. Test - **1/2
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - ***3/4
Chyna vs. Ivory - DUD
Shane McMahon vs. Vince McMahon - ***1/2
Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Dudleyz (TLC II) - ****1/2
Battle Royal - DUD
Undertaker vs. Triple H - ***3/4
Stone Cold vs. The Rock - *****

Overall - 9.5/10

3 DUD's stopped this from being a perfect show for me.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I haven't watched Jericho/Benoit RR01 since '07, but that's far and away my favourite ladder match.

****3/4


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> *Royal Rumble 2001*
> 
> The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge and Christian - ** 3/4
> Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit - **** 1/2
> ...


Same here, pretty much. I also didn't like the drew carey stuff at all, personally. It did nothing for me. Angle/HHH should've been a lot better. I actually think the ending sequence is pretty good but it dragged a lot in the first half. The opening match was also (as you said) really fun despite the low rating.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

With the Royal Rumble PPV it's really easy to put on one hell of a show. Besides the Rumble match you only need two or three other good matches. And still most years the Rumble PPV is average, with undercard matches like Boogeyman/JBL for example.

2001 is a good example of how to book a Rumble PPV as well as 93, 95 and 2011.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*Over the Limit 2012*

People Power Battle Royal - **
Kofi Kingston & R-Truth vs. Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler - **1/2
Layla vs. Beth Phoenix - **1/4
Sheamus vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio - ***3/4
Brodus Clay vs. The Miz - *
Cody Rhodes vs. Christian - **
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - ****3/4
John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis - DUD

Solid.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still haven't seen that 4-way. Heard good things about it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

4 way kinda sucks imo.

RR 01:

Tag - ***
Ladder - ****1/2
Women - DUD
Title - ***3/4 (used to like this a lot more)
Rumble - ****1/2 (one of the best Rumbles. So much fun)

And a quick plug for my blog (I have a blog. The link is in my sig. Despite what some people might say, I HAVE A BLOG. FUCK YOU VIVALABRAVE), I'll be posting ramblings on every RR event, one a day starting today (1988 up) until the 27th (2012 will be posted then). Half review, half me typing random shit that pops in my head as I watch the shows. Hopefully they'll be entertaining reads if nothing else .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, WWE did it again. Made a shitty WCW DVD :lmao.

DISC 1

WCW United States Championship Match
Sting vs. Ric Flair
4th September, 1995

Madusa trashed the WWE Women’s Championship
18th December, 1995

Trashing the Gold

Hulk Hogan vs. Arn Anderson
12th February, 1996

Steiner Brothers vs. Road Warriors
11th March, 1996

Cruiserweights

Jushin “Thunder” Liger vs. Dean Malenko
6th May, 1996

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Rey Mysterio vs. Juventud Guerrera
16th September, 1996

Rookie of the Year

Eric Bischoff’s Biggest Regret
30th September, 1996

WCW United States Championship Tournament Quarter Finals Match
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Jeff Jarrett
9th December, 1996

The Lone Wolf

Kevin Nash patches up potholes
21st April, 1997

Hollywood Hogan makes Sting worship him
26th May, 1997

Through the Crowd

Ric Flair vs. Scott Hall
2nd June, 1997

DISC 2


Celebrities

Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman call out Lex Luger & The Giant
16th June, 1997

Rey Mysterio vs. Kevin Nash
30th June, 1997

La Parka vs. Randy Savage
7th July, 1997

Goldberg vs. Hugh Morrus
22nd September, 1997

Homegrown

Booker T vs. Jeff Jarrett
6th October, 1997

Street Fight for the WCW World Tag Team Championship
Steiner Brothers vs. Public Enemy
3rd November, 1997

NWO sings “O Canada”
10th November, 1997

Booker T vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
15th December, 1997

Remembering Macho Man

Rey Mysterio, Juventud Guerrera & Hector Garza vs. Psicosis, Silver King & La Parka
22nd December, 1997

WCW United States Championship Match
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Chris Jericho
5th January, 1998

Spring Breakout

Hollywood Hogan, Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. Sting, “Macho Man” Randy Savage & The Giant
9th March, 1998

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Sting vs. Diamond Dallas Page
23rd March, 1998

Raven’s Rules Match for the WCW United States Championship
Raven vs. Goldberg
20th April, 1998

Birth of the Wolfpac
4th May, 1998

DISC 3


NWO Divided

Kevin Nash & Lex Luger vs. Hollywood Hogan & The Giant
1st June, 1998

Chris Jericho meets the real Goldberg
28th September, 1998

Nitro Parties

Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero
21st December, 1998

Ladder Match for the Taser
Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Scott Hall
25th January, 1999

WCW United States Championship Match
Bret “Hit Man” Hart vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper
8th February, 1999

Jersey Boys

WCW World Tag Team Championship Match
Perry Saturn & Kaynon vs. Diamond Dallas Page & Bam Bam Bigelow
31st May, 1999

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Hollywood Hogan
12th July, 1999

Nitro Girls

WCW World Tag Team Championship Match
Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. Goldberg & Bret “Hit Man” Hart
13th December, 1999

House of Pain Match
Sting vs. Vampiro
15th May, 2000

Shane Helms vs. Shannon Moore
26th February, 2001

WCW United States & World Heavyweight Championship Match
Booker T vs. Scott Steiner
26th March, 2001

A Celebration of Nitro

BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Hulk Hogan vs. Lex Luger
11th September, 1995

Ric Flair vs. Brian Pillman
18th September, 1995

J.L. vs. NWO Sting
21st October, 1996

Sting & Lex Luger vs. Hollywood Hogan & Randy Savage
16th March, 1998

Steel Cage Match
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Randy Savage
15th June, 1998

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Goldberg vs. Sting
14th September, 1998

WCW Television Championship Match
Scott Steiner vs. Chris Jericho
1st February, 1999

Ric Flair & Goldberg vs. Hollywood Hogan & Kevin Nash
15th March, 1999

Jeff Jarrett reclaims his WCW World Heavyweight Championship
22nd November, 1999

DDP and Randy Savage’s War of Words

--------------------------------------

Arn/Hogan is a nice addition, as is the 98 Sting/DDP match that is fairly similar and almost as good as their 99 match.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-best-of-wcw-nitro-vol2-dvd/32799/

Edit: Ninja'd


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

It looks pretty meh but I'll still get it.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I apologize if this has been asked a million times.Which Flair set is better, Definitive or Ultimate?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SpookshowTony said:


> I apologize if this has been asked a million times.Which Flair set is better, Definitive or Ultimate?


ULTIMATE.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> I apologize if this has been asked a million times.Which Flair set is better, Definitive or Ultimate?


Probably Ultimate. Get em both though. Flair is de gawd :flair


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you Big Z. (Y)

Edit: Thanks jonoaries. I just wanted to ask due to his prime being before my time.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I like the look of the Nitro set. I wish Sting/Goldberg wasn't a blu ray exclusive though. I really wanted that match and will now have to wait until I can aquire the ability to play blu ray.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I just seen it. Indeed, it looks okay. I'll cop. Raven vs Goldberg is dope. I don't remember/havent seen most of those joints.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Went to a Used Book Store that gives all the proceeds to the city library just because I was walking buy and I picked up The Rock Says biography along with Best of RAW Vol. 1 and Wrestlemania's Greatest Hits VHS tapes for a combined whopping $1.50. Anyone have any opinions on any of the stuff?


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Concerning the Nitro DVD...

Needs more cruiserweights! They've got a good amount of Rey on there but one Malenko match is disappointing. Needs more Jericho, although a lot of DVD's do. 

Still going to get it, the blu-ray of course. DAT GOLDBERG/STING MATCH!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> *Royal Rumble 2001*
> 
> The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge and Christian - ** 3/4
> Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit - **** 1/2
> ...


Ladder match = *****

Perfect.

I'm done rating Royal Rumble's. Never know what to give most except for '92 & '07. Which are both ****1/2 & ****, respectively.

Watched HIAC & Vengeance 2011. I'll post a review when I'm home and on my computer. This shit I'm on takes forever. Patience wearing thin. Henry vs Show owned. That is all. For now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Got done watching Bork/RVD from Vengeance 2002. Very fun match. ★★★¼

Need to check out some more of Bork's 2002 stuff. vs Taker at UNF, vs Rock & HHH at that one-time PPV and some more TV stuff.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Still got a shitload of matches to watch, but I've been listening to the Fabulous Rougeau Brothers theme on repeat (fucking boss!) and I'm wondering what are their best matches?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Z said:


> La Parka vs. Randy Savage
> 7th July, 1997


Wha...wha.....what...I can't.....I.....whaa........

I think this wins the #1 spot for "Dream Match I Didn't Even Know I Had". And it actually exists.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Found one on dailymotion.
Rougeaus/Bulldogs
No date though.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wha...wha.....what...I can't.....I.....whaa........
> 
> I think this wins the #1 spot for "Dream Match I Didn't Even Know I Had". And it actually exists.


If I remember correctly, it was DDP dressed as La Parka. 


Been in a 2004 mood lately, watching Bad Blood now.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I've come to realize that Mark Henry's run in 2011 was one of the greatest heel runs I've ever seen. He was surprisingly SO AWESOME on the mic, was drawing ratings on SmackDown in the range of 2.1-2.2 from 1.8's when Orton had it, getting mega heat, and put on some great matches.

Doesn't get much better then that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Mizark "ratings" Henry would have been my WOTY had CM Punk not existed (MAYBE). When you look at the grand scale of things, he didn't have very many TOP matches but I'm pretty sure every single match he had during that run was worth watching.

Had an incredible hot streak of good matches starting at MITB with Big Show and ending at Royal Rumble (his last PPV singles I do believe ?). As a matter of fact, let me go out and fetch my old ratings, shall I ?

vs Show MITB 11 : *****
vs Sheamus SS 11 : **** 1/4*
vs Orton NOC 11 : **** 1/2*
vs Orton HIAC 11 : **** 1/2*
vs Show VEN 11 : **** 3/4*
vs Show SS 11 : *****
vs Show TLC 11 : *** 1/4*
vs Bryan vs Show RR 12 : *****

BEAT EM UP BEAT EM UP BREAK HIS NECK BREAK HIS NECK. Pretty sure I was shat all over by a majority of people for giving the Survivor Series match that good of a rating. It was fucking awesome, adore that PPV as a whole actually


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

It's such a shame we couldn't get Bryan vs. Henry at WrestleMania 28. Theres something about a David and Goaliath story that's always engaging.

I guess whatever happened did for the best though. The 18 second loss to Sheamus and turning heel was probably the best decision of Bryan's career.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sucks how they basically used Bryan's momentum to make AJ such a pivotal part of the company. I swear to God Vince just sits around all day coming up with different ways to screw up the company's momentum. Fuck that shit.

Watching Royal Rumble 2004 now, gonna split it up into two watchings, the undercard tonight and the Rumble match itself tomorrow. Dudleyz-Evolution sucks, Noble-Mysterio is short but sweet, and the Last Man Standing is overrated. Looking forward to Holly-Lesnar (did I just say that ?) honestly.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd put Henry over Punk for 2011. That's a 'work' talking point. Like, bell-to-bell matches. Drawing figures and all that are interesting but I don't use them or anything else as a metric. Henry didn't have anything on level with MITB, but I'm not entirely sure what the second best Punk match of 2011 is or if I prefer it to the third or fourth best from Henry. I think Mark had a stronger TV year and was one of my favourite competitive mauling quasi-squash wrestlers ever. Fuck, his 2011 is one of my favourite wrestler years ever, period. Monster heel done ideally. There is almost nothing better.





Walter Sobchak said:


> If I remember correctly, it was DDP dressed as La Parka.


:sad:

I hate existence.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

So I just rewatched part of the 2012 Royal Rumble match right now, and I actually ended really liking it despite me thinking that it was the worst Rumble match of all time when I watched it live.

What the fuck? Details shortly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SpookshowTony said:


> Still got a shitload of matches to watch, but I've been listening to the Fabulous Rougeau Brothers theme on repeat (fucking boss!) and I'm wondering what are their best matches?


They have some really fucking great matches against The Rockers (some sucky ones too though). Can't remember the dates for the good ones though lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NO! said:


> *Wrestlemania X-Seven*
> 
> 
> Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - ***3/4


Is it just me that hates this match?  Two of my favorite wrestlers, who have had much better matches together since (RR2003), but this match is bad imho, it's just Angle going for the ankle lock semmingly for the whole match, lucky to get ** for me, i just dont like it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd put Henry over Punk for 2011. That's a 'work' talking point. Like, bell-to-bell matches. Drawing figures and all that are interesting but I don't use them or anything else as a metric. Henry didn't have anything on level with MITB, but I'm not entirely sure what the second best Punk match of 2011 is or if I prefer it to the third or fourth best from Henry. I think Mark had a stronger TV year and was one of my favourite competitive mauling quasi-squash wrestlers ever. Fuck, his 2011 is one of my favourite wrestler years ever, period. Monster heel done ideally. There is almost nothing better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wouldn't put Henry anywhere near Punk in 2011 as far as wrestling goes, but 2011 was a fairly strong Henry year, no doubt. Frankly though, I don't remember any of his TV matches aside from the Bryan cage one, which I remember being great, but haven't watched i since it first aired. However, I would still put Punk/Cena's MITB, SS, Raw, as well as the triple threat HIAC and the match against Mysterio at CP over Henry's best match of the year, against Show at Vengeance 2011. Here are the ratings for reference:

Henry's matches:

vs Show MITB 11 : ***
vs Sheamus SS 11 : ***
vs Orton NOC 11 : ***1/4
vs Orton HIAC 11 : **3/4
vs Show VEN 11 : ***3/4
vs Show SS 11 : **3/4
vs. Bryan SD Cage: ***1/2
vs Show TLC 11 : **


I do agree though that Henry's 2011 run was how a monster run should be done. Despite how many times he's lost in the past, they did an awesome job of making Henry look unstoppable until Big Show came into the picture, and even then it only got really bad around SVS time. But during that run for the most part, I couldn't imagine Henry losing at all and it definitely added something. Him winning the WHC was an awesome moment as well, as it really felt like it meant something to him (especially after that promo he cut draft night). Such a shame it got cut short due to injury. I would've loved to see the Bryan/Henry match as well at Mania with the underdog Bryan conquering the unstoppable monster Henry and taking the WHC from him. I suppose in hindsight, what happened with Sheamus made Bryan more over than he ever would've in a feud with Henry... but we'll never know, I suppose.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Angle:I was really bored by it. The Benoit/Angle matches can have a bit of a rep of being robotic and emotionless, which I think isn't true for most of them, but does apply to this one. It just felt like a 'decent' exhibition and nothing more. Their matches that went 20+ minutes were actually much easier to get through and a lot better overall.

wrote this before I saw Sandrone's post. I dont want to double post so I'll post about Henry whenever someone posts.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys does CM Punk vs Randy Orton from ER 2011 deserve a watch?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Guys does CM Punk vs Randy Orton from ER 2011 deserve a watch?


Yeah, I'd say so. Not a classic or anything, but its good. I think other people like it a lot more than me.

HENRY in 2011 was awesome from an all round standpoint. Great promos, awesome character, and while he wasn't exactly having ****+ matches I could probably go back and watch his entire run a lot easier than even Punk's 2011 (still consider Punk WOTY though).

I remember at the end of 2011 bringing up Henry as a potential WOTY and I believe everyone basically ignored me :lmao. Literally didn't respond, even to say that they didn't think Henry was worthy or not lol. BASTARDS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Sandrone said:


> I wouldn't put Henry anywhere near Punk in 2011 as far as wrestling goes, but 2011 was a fairly strong Henry year, no doubt. Frankly though, I don't remember any of his TV matches aside from the Bryan cage one, which I remember being great, but haven't watched i since it first aired. However, I would still put Punk/Cena's MITB, SS, Raw, as well as the triple threat HIAC and the match against Mysterio at CP over Henry's best match of the year, against Show at Vengeance 2011.


Like I said IDK what I'd consider Punk's second best match, but it's probably whatever his second best match with Cena that year was and I don't really know if I like it more than Henry/Show, Henry/Orton or Henry/Bryan. I didn't think much of that HIAC three-way, and really I didn't think much of anything Punk did post-SummerSlam other than the very good Cena Raw match and the really fun Raw match with Dolph. Del Rio match was fine but kind of boring and went way too ong (did it? Felt like it). The HHH stuff wasn't bad, but wasn't particularly good to me either, and I'd rather watch anything Henry did that year to it. The TLC three-way had a really good dramatic moment at the end with Punk trying to pull the turnbuckle apart, but overall I didn't like it.

I still have not seen the Mysterio match, I don't think. I said I was going to watch/write about the Punk/Rey series for this thread before Christmas. I was obviously full of shit, but I will watch all of them again one day.

Henry's first match as a heel IIRC was v Mysterio which I actually felt disappointed with at the time, but re-watching it a couple of months ago I really really liked it. That was April, before people were even pushing Henry. He had awesome semi-squash-ish matches with John Morrison and Zack Ryder on TV. I think they were both no DQ and there's such this great feel of Morriosn/Ryder getting thrown into a lion pit with everyone worried they'd be fucked up. They had awesome hope and comeback spots and Henry looked like the all time great killer. He had SEVERAL good TV matches Orton, and more than one with Sheamus including the SummerSlam re-match which to me was actually probably as good as the PPV match itself. I loved loved loved the first Bryan match in November and the second was pretty great too despite both being short. Man, typing all of this up makes me actually realise I forgot how much good Henry had in 2011. FUCK. How good could he have been for the second half of 2006 had he not gotten injured? Or in 2010 if he was a heel working a main event program? His career should have been way better than it was (and I'm a BIG fan of it as it is) and it sucks he has to be injured right now when he finally got the big break he needed. Glad he got that kind of run eventually, though.



Srdjan99 said:


> Guys does CM Punk vs Randy Orton from ER 2011 deserve a watch?


Yeah it's good. Didn't LOVE it, but could see why someone would.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> Like I said IDK what I'd consider Punk's second best match, but it's probably whatever his second best match with Cena that year was and I don't really know if I like it more than Henry/Show, Henry/Orton or Henry/Bryan. I didn't think much of that HIAC three-way, and really I didn't think much of anything Punk did post-SummerSlam other than the very good Cena Raw match and the really fun Raw match with Dolph. Del Rio match was fine but kind of boring and went way too ong (did it? Felt like it). The HHH stuff wasn't bad, but wasn't particularly good to me either, and I'd rather watch anything Henry did that year to it. The TLC three-way had a really good dramatic moment at the end with Punk trying to pull the turnbuckle apart, but overall I didn't like it.


Oooh, can't believe I forgot Punk/Dolph from November. That's another match I'd put over Henry/Show from Vengeance.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

How can Fremantle not have a site set up for the day they take over the license. Very tinpot :lol


At least it looks like Silver vision will be doing TNA dvds in the future though .


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Has anyone seen the Vince Russo Kayfabe Commentary session where he rebooks the Invasion? I've seen about 70% of the Cornette one and it was pretty decent for what it was. Just wanted to know if anyone thought the Russo one was up to much?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

T-Bag said:


> Has anyone seen the Vince Russo Kayfabe Commentary session where he rebooks the Invasion? I've seen about 70% of the Cornette one and it was pretty decent for what it was. Just wanted to know if anyone thought the Russo one was up to much?


I enjoy all the rebooked shoots tbh. Russo's is ok, but he barely goes into detail about anything and honestly I'm not sure he even thought about it much before hand and certainly didn't write anything down, so half of it is on the fly. His angle isn't that impressive at all, but I always enjoy listening to Russo and his crazy opinions and shit. Same with Cornette .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I can remember not being that impressed with Russo's rework of the Invasion, given his expertise in clusterfucks. :side: Like Z said, it seemed as if he was just doing it on the fly with very little planning or preparation. I have yet to see Cornette's though, I didn't know he did an Invasion rework. I'll try and check that out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I liked the idea of his for the NWO type angle invasion although not much the execution, but i get the impression, and i think he says it himself, he didnt spend much time thinking about it lol, whereas Cornette went into great detail as ever and took it more seriously i thought.

I enjoyed both for what they were though.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Didn't Cornettes rebooking feature Terry Funk in a prominent role? What did Funk have to do with the war between WWF vs WCW?

Russo booked pretty much everything on the fly. I hated how he introduced the WCW wrestlers. Vince asking Bischoff to bring in WCW wrestlers to take on the NWO which leads to WCW (of course) turning on the WWF is unbelievable and unrealistic.

However, he got one basic, simple thing right. The one thing that Vince was not able to figure out. You can't have this story without three guys: Hogan, Hall and Nash. This sentence alone makes his Invasion better than what we actually got.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vince probably knew he couldn't do the Invasion without Hall, Nash and Hogan, but he wasn't going to wait around a year for their contracts to be up, and he wasn't willing to pay them the obscene amount of money their contracts gave them to sit on their arse and do nothing.

And yet a decade later he throws monstrous amount of cash at Lesnar for like, 3 matches (doubt he'll wrestle anywhere other than just WM now) .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best Raw and SD Matches 2012 Set listings:

DISC 1

Many Memorable Moments

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Kane vs. Zack Ryder
RAW • January 23, 2012

Chris Jericho “Speaks”
RAW • January 23, 2012

Champion vs. Champion Match
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan
RAW • January 30, 2012

No Disqualification Match
Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett
SmackDown • February 3, 2012

John Cena has some choice words for The Rock
RAW • February 20, 2012

Second to None

6-Man Tag Team Match
Randy Orton, Sheamus & Big Show vs. Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & The Miz
SmackDown • March 9, 2012

The Rock Concert
RAW • March 12, 2012

Triple Threat Match for the United States Championship
Santino Marella vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger
RAW • April 2, 2012

Brock Lesnar Returns
RAW • April 2, 2012
WrestleMania Rematch

Randy Orton vs. Kane
SmackDown • April 6, 2012

Daniel Bryan tells off AJ Lee
SmackDown • April 6, 2012

DISC 2

Shaking the Foundation

John Cena & Brock Lesnar Confrontation
RAW • April 9, 2012

No Disqualification Match for the WWE Championship
CM Punk vs. Mark Henry
RAW • April 16, 2012

World Tag Team Championship Match
Primo & Epico vs. R-Truth & Kofi Kingston
Raw • April 30, 2012

Randy Orton vs. Sheamus
SmackDown • May 18, 2012

Big Show Goes on a Rampage
RAW • May 28, 2012

Fatal 4-Way Match to Determine the #1 Contender for the World Heavyweight Title
Dolph Ziggler vs. Christian vs. Jack Swagger vs. The Great Khali
RAW • June 11, 2012

Heath Slater vs. Vader
RAW • June 11, 2012

Santino Marella Hosts ‘Sign of the Night’
SmackDown • June 22, 2012

Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler
SmackDown • June 22, 2012

Unprecedented Milestone

D-Generation X Reunites
RAW • July 23, 2012

Fatal 4-Way Match to Determine the #1 Contender for the World Heavyweight Title
Rey Mysterio vs. Kane vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio
SmackDown • July 27, 2012

2-on-1 Handicap Match
Ryback vs. Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks
RAW • August 6, 2012

DISC 3

Respect for the Champion

CM Punk & John Cena Have Words
RAW • August 20, 2012

Daniel Bryan & Kane Attend Anger Management
RAW • August 27, 2012

Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes
SmackDown • August 31, 2012

Falls Count Anywhere Match
John Cena vs. Alberto Del Rio
RAW • September 3, 2012

Randy Orton vs. Damien Sandow
SmackDown • September 7, 2012

Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston
RAW • September 24, 2012

Beth Phoenix vs. Natalya
SmackDown • September 28, 2012

Ryback vs. Tensai
SmackDown • September 28, 2012

Sheamus vs. Damien Sandow
RAW • October 1, 2012

Daniel Bryan & Kane vs. Alberto Del Rio & David Otunga
SmackDown • October 5, 2012

CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler
SmackDown • October 5, 2012

CM Punk vs. Mr. McMahon
RAW • October 8, 2012

Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler
RAW • October 22, 2012

John Cena & Ryback vs. CM Punk & Dolph Ziggler
RAW • November 5, 2012

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio
SmackDown • November 6, 2012

An Unforgettable Year


BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES

United States Championship Match
Santino Marella vs. Jack Swagger
RAW • March 5, 2012

CM Punk & Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan & Kane
RAW • June 18, 2012

Intercontinental Championship Match
The Miz vs. Christian
SmackDown • July 27, 2012

Street Fight
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan
RAW • July 30, 2012

The SmackDown Debut of Miz TV
SmackDown • September 28, 2012

Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett
SmackDown • October 26, 2012

-------------------------------

Some really good picks... and some shitty ones like normal. Happy to see Punk/Bryan, Henry/Punk and (BR extra) Sheamus/Bryan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Kinda hope we get an Annual like for the past two years, esp like this years which combines the Raw/Smackdown with the Best PPV Matches set...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wish they'd do a Bluray version of the Annuals instead of just DVD. Hopefully the new company will do that. Ever since I got my PS3, if I can get something on Bluray I just do that rather than DVD (usually wait for an offer of course, fuck paying FULL PRICE lol).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FUCK the 4/2 Punk/Henry isn't on there. 

Some really good stuff on there though. A bunch of those pointless main event tag matches too though. (N)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Not digging that set tbh. Too many pointless MATCHES. Not enough pointless PROMOS. Official dvd/PROMO/discussion thread.


----------



## YouThinkUKnowMe (Mar 28, 2011)

I got most of what I wanted out of that set. I really would've loved the first HHH/Michaels promo where they talked about Undertaker and HHH thinking that beating him would be "bad for business". I swear you could feel Undertaker's presence during that entire promo. Really wish that was on there. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

YouThinkUKnowMe said:


> I got most of what I wanted out of that set. I really would've loved the first HHH/Michaels promo where they talked about Undertaker and HHH thinking that beating him would be "bad for business". I swear you could feel Undertaker's presence during that entire promo. Really wish that was on there. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it.


That promo is awesome and I mean AWESOME. Should have made the cut tbh.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Thank god Ryback V Tensia is on the set. 

Imagine if it wasn't on their and instead we got those End of an Era promos or Punk's heel turn or other worthless shit like that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Some pretty big omissions on the RAW/SD set. Brye mentioned Punk/Henry, plus no Sheamus/Jericho (actually no Jericho matches at all) & FAR too much Ryback for my liking. Not as excited about this, little disappointed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn, I thought the Henry/Punk match on there was the really good one. Instead its the one from the UK show, right? That's already on DVD .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Never, ever bought the Raw and Smackdown annual sets. For the most part, lousy, meaningless 5-10 minute TV matches? Yawn. I'd rather cut myself while man-scaping. At least that is quicker, although, not by much considering how short most Raw matches are.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just checked out that Falls Count Anywhere match between Orton and Del Rio an hour ago. A decent match although the dead crowd doesn't help it at all. Also reminds me of how awesome JBL's commentary is.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

JBL sometimes makes strange assumptions as to why people are wrestling which has nothing to do/was never bought up in the storyline.

For example in the Orton V Mexican Orton feud

"THERE FIGHTING FOR THEIR OWN FAMILY!" 

Erm sure man.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Damn, I thought the Henry/Punk match on there was the really good one. Instead its the one from the UK show, right? That's already on DVD .


What DVD is the UK one on?!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Henry/Punk from the night after WrestleMania should be on that set. There are some good selections on there, but others are meh.

Ryback vs. Hawkins/Reks?
Ryback vs. Tensai?

Why?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If they're gonna put a Ryback squash on there, first of all, only put one. And second, show one of the ones against the 80 lb people.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That set looks fucking horrid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> What DVD is the UK one on?!


Live in the UK... only available in Europe .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Live in the UK... only available in Europe .


:sad:


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2012 Match: ★★★1/2

Originally when I watched it live I had it at ★★. I hated that Rumble so fucking much, but in retrospect, I enjoyed the comedy more then I thought I would on rewatch. Also, Ricardo coming out was one of the greatest things I've ever seen in my life. Hated that all 3 commentators participated in the Rumble. The Kharma and Road Dogg returns were a warm welcome. Kofi's handstand was GOAT. Rhodes/Miz looked impressive lasting over 40 minutes, and the Sheamus/Jericho ending was pretty good. Overall, I'm glad I went and rewatched this match (Y)


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

They actually want people to see Ryback not lifting Tensai?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Smackdown January 4 2013

Miz/Slater - ***
Kofi/Barrett - **3/4
Orton/Sheamus vs Cesaro/Show - **3/4

Solid show. Both matches got pretty good time too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gonna try and keep up with EVERYTHING this year if I can. Started well so far:

Antonio Cesaro Vs The Great Khali - United States Championship - Main Event 02/01/2013 - 1/4*

Khali gets USA chants. Pretty much sums up the WWE Universe. Typical Khali match. He lumbers about hitting shitty offence, then his opponent goes for the legs and does nothing of interest with the leg work. Comeback. Finish. Cesaro hits his finisher for the win. Shite match to start off 2013 in WWE.

Cesaro and Miz look like they are gonna feud. Seems WWE's best way to make sure we know he's a babyface is to have him suck up to America against TEH EVIL FOREIGNER. Urgh. If they do feud I fucking hope Jiz doesn't take the title.


Wade Barrett Vs Yoshi Tatsu, JTG, Justin Gabriel, Kofi Kingston - Main Event 02/01/2013 - 1/2*

Over-hyped gymnast. And Wade Barrett does the only good thing of his career so far. Gives Kofi the perfect nickname.

This is a Gauntlet match. Wade knocks out Tatsu with an elbow straight away. JTG next. Barrett just kinda sits on a rest hold then hits him with the elbow. Yawn. Gabriel time. He gets some offence in. Oh look, Barrett gains control and REST HOLD. Can totally see why people want him to be WWE/Heavyweight champion...

Nice moonsault from Gabriel. Onto Barrett's legs. And not in the good way like HBK/Undertaker when it made sense to land on the legs. Elbow and its over.

Kofi who has been on commentary during this dull Barrett borefest, ends up being the last guy. Fuck knows how he set it up, Barrett only announced the Gauntlet when he came out to the ring. And Kofi was already out to do commentary. Trouble in Paradise and Barrett loses. LOL. Shit Gauntlet match. Terrible Main Event show.


Bo Dallas Vs Epico - NXT 03/01/2013 - 1/2*

Bo Dallas creeps me the fuck out. Epic cheats a little and attacks Bo's eyes. Regal on commentary: Take the eyes away from the competitor. They can't see what they're hitting. I like a bit of that. :lmao

Dallas' comeback involves him getting sexual pleasure from being hit and asking for more or something. Creepy fucker. Creeps me the fuck out. Spear and its over. This wasn't good. Michael McGuillitlitnmanstehjrjbfncutty shows up to save a potential 2 on 1 situation after the match. Oh god its gonna be a tag match next week isn't it?


Sasha Banks Vs Tamina - NXT 03/01/2013 - 1/4*

What can I say about this? It sucked. That's what I can say about it.


Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger Vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - NXT 03/01/2013 - *1/2

Finally, a match in 2012 with some potential. Damn, nothing special. Kidd and Gabriel look good at the start, then the heels control and its nothing worth talking about. Hot tag comes across as being ice cold. Finish comes out of nowhere in the sense that I didn't see that move ending it. Still the best wrestling I've seen in 2013 .


Seth Rollins Vs Corey Graves - NXT Championship - NXT 03/01/2013 - **

NXT kicked off this week with The Shield jumping 2 nobodies. Dusty came out and forced Rollins to defend his NXT title or he would be stripped of it.

Match is very back and forth, nobody gains any kind of real advantage. Graves keeps going for the leg, while Rollins does his best to keep Graves at bay with his more flashy moveset. Graves hooks in a leg submission and The Shield come out and this one is over. Dusty sends out the NXT locker room. And they look like jobbers as 3 men take them all apart :lmao. Bo Dallas ends up on his own at the end and gets destroyed. YES. Kill the creepy fucker. Triple powerbomb. I love The Shield .

BIG E LANGSTON. All this stuff was taped before TLC and that so like, yeah, he's a babyface here lol. The Shield back down.

Match was ok, give them 15 minutes and a finish and no doubt they could do something great together. But as it was, they got little time and no finish. Dusty announces that Big E gets a title shot next week. I wonder who wins... .


The Miz Vs Heath Slater - Smackdown - 04/01/2013 - **3/4

Urgh. Miz is the Chavo of WWE. The fact his first move in this match is a dropkick is awesome. Couldn't have written it better myself. I like how WWE are making Miz a face... by having him have no likeable qualities whatsoever. But who cares, he can just chant USA and get over like he did on Main Event.

Jinder Mahawful and the talented 3MB member Drew McIntyre get sent to the back. And with McIntyre gone, my interest in this match went from 0 (because he wasn't in it) to -10000 (because he isn't on screen any more). As I watch this, the best match so far of the year is **3/4. This ain't touching that match. Urgh.

Oh hey, match is actually picking up a bit. Slater is doing alright controlling things, and Miz isn't screwing the match up doing his shit because he's just taking offence for the most part rather than giving (Miz taking rather than giving. Sums up my thoughts on the guy tbh). Couple of nice cut off spots from Slater too. In fact, the longer this match goes on, the better Slater looks. I was starting to warm to him during his "getting killed by legends" period leading up to Raw 1000. Then they did this 3MB crap and I just stopped caring, but yeah, guy looks good.

And of course Miz wins. Because... I dunno. Surprised with how good this match turned out tbh. I went into it bored, but it got better and better thanks to Slater. Current MOTY? I think so.


The Great Khali, Hornswoggle & Natalya Vs Primo, Epico & Rosa Mendes - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - DUD

Oh good god. I'm really regretting my NYR of trying to keep up with EVERYTHING WWE and TNA all year. So much fucking shite I have to sit through.


Kofi Kingston Vs Wade Barrett - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - 1/4*

Oh jesus. Barrett is one of the most boring guys around atm (in terms of getting a push, anyway) and Kofi might be the worst in ring performer atm too. 2013 is NOT starting off good so far.

Stan Hansen is name dropped by JBL. Match bored the shit out of me.


Layla Vs Tamina - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - 1/4*

No wonder I haven't fully watched SD (or any wrestling show for that matter) in such a long time. So much fucking SHIT on paper that would usually make me skip to the end of the match. When it comes to scripting my videos, almost all the "jokes" come from promos and interviews and segments. Who knows if I've missed opportunities for some golden content by skipping so many turn matches lol. Certainly ain't come across anything yet...

Taminia wins. Short match. No fucks given.


The Big Show & Antonio Cesaro Vs Randy Orton & Sheamus - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - ***

Well this is pretty good. Orton stays the fuck out of the match right up until the inish basically, so we get Show and Cesaro battling with Sheamus which is always fun. I like how Sheamus gets chokeslammed and Orton doesn't even attempt to break up the pin. Either that's a complete burial of Show's chokeslam or Orton is a cunt. BROGUE KICK. Sheamus makes the tag to Orton, Orton does... very little then Sheamus tags back in and Orton doesn't look happy. So as Sheamus is setting up a Brogue kick on Cesaro for the win, Orton jumps in with an RKO! Sheamus ain't pleased but makes the cover anyway. Nice finish tbh. I can see they are already planting seeds for an Orton heel turn. Let's hope he gets a character with the change. New MOTY!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would love a PPV match for the title between Orton and Big Show. Orton has so many potentially good matches that he still hasn't been in on PPV against guys like Big Show, Lesnar, D-Bryan and The Rock. Really hope he's utilized better this year.

*Smackdown 27/1/2006:*

Mark Henry vs Rey Mysterio - ★★¾
- Another good match between the two where Rey does a great job at doing anything to get the upper-hand while Mizark sells well and gets up without much effort due to the size difference. Think it was stupid to let Henry go over clean when Rey was going to win the Royal Rumble in a few days. That's a place where a DQ or dirty finish helps protect both wrestlers.

Mexicools vs The Dicks vs FBI - ★
- Other than the Mexicools pulling a few nice moves, this was shit.

Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton (No Holds Barred) - ★★★★½
- Just the perfect way to close out their series of matches. This one is given the No DQ stipulation to let them go at it without being all technical. Starts off slow with them mat wrestling but after an uppercut that sends Benoit outside the ring, things get a lot more physical with stiff chops, announce table bumps before they go on the other side of the ring to use weapons like trashcans. Not only do these guys click perfectly in a mat-wrestling match, they are also as good in a more hardcore environment. The trashcan to Benoit's skull was absolutely brutal as was the Diving Headbutt into the trashcan on Orton's chest. Orton himself also took a bad bump with that Back Body Drop into the concrete outside the ring. Benoit hits Orton in the head with the trashcan and then locks in the Crippler Crossface to finally make his win over Orton for the first time official. Excellent match that gets a lot of time and features a lot of awesome highlights. Can't believe the idiot smarks at the time claimed that Orton can't wrestle even though he was capable of putting on matches of this caliber almost weekly. One of these idiots can be seen in the crowd with the sign that reads "Orton Needs Wrestling School". Fuck off, asshole.

Finlay vs Funaki - ★¼
- Not quite a squash as Funaki does get some offense in but pretty dull and one-sided still. I can't wait to see Finlay in some real matches against guys like Benoit and Regal because I know it'll be exciting. This was nothing, though.

JBL vs Scotty 2 Hotty - 0
- Why did Scotty 2 Jobby even have a job at this point when he randomly came out every now and then when a heel needed a jobber despite the fact there were others that could have his place? Dull as shit and Boogeyman interrupting was probably for the best even though JBL was 3 seconds away from pinning Scotty and get it over with. All this shit with the worms is absolutely awful. I would _hate_ to be that guy who dreams of getting to work for the WWE only to have such a shitty gimmick slapped on me. If I was the Boogeyman, I would've just quit rather than put up with this shit.

Kurt Angle vs MNM - ★½
- Nothing much to talk about. Just a typical match involving tag teams. MNM control the larger portion of it and constantly tag in and out, then Angle suddenly gets momentum and single handedly defeats the tag team champions clean. 


Another solid Smackdown show with at least one great match to remember. I think Benoit/Orton should have main evented, though. As meaningless as it may have been from a storyline perspective, the match was brutal and made everything else following it look like shit.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

That Raw/Smackdown set is awful looking. I may watch it if it gets put up on Netflix but I'm not buying that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished watching the 2004 edition of the Royal Rumble and DAMN..........That Hunter/HBK LMS is so overrated by some, honestly. When I'm done reviewing a PPV I usually look it up and compare my ratings to a few various other sources, and I saw a ton of positive feedback from the WHC match and I have no idea why. It's not a BAD match.... But yeah...

*Royal Rumble 2004*

The Dudley Boyz vs Ric Flair/Batista : *½**

Eddie Guerrero vs Chavo Guerrero : *****

Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble : ****

Brock Lesnar vs Hardcore Holly : ****

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing) : *** 3/4*

Royal Rumble Match : ***** 1/4*

WHY DID THEY GIVE LESNAR BOB HOLLY TO WORK WITH. That move was so fucking stupid I swear to god. If they had to give Mysterio-Noble 10 minutes it would have kicked ass (but they NEEDED a third of the damn PPV for HHH-HBK, right?) and took names because it was awesome for the very miniscule amount of time that it lasted. Guerrero X2 is probably like the best Chavo match I've ever seen (hate that little fucker, seems to drag the life out of literally every single match that I've ever seen him in) due to Eddie's pure machismo out there.

THAT FUCKING OPENER. What a terrible match, the only thing that saves it from being a complete and utter DUD is the GOAT's attempt to save it. Flair is god, we should all worship Flair instead of this Jesus Christ character, you are all subjects to him and his saggy man-titties. GOATS GONNA GOAT BABY! Anyways............. Terrible, terrible match and easily one of the worst opening matches to a PPV that I have EVER seen.

Rumble was one of the best. This was BENOIT'S time to shine out there and he did it to fucking perfection. The fact that he wasn't spotlighted the entire night despite beating Flair's ironman record blows my mind to this day.... How did they pull such smart booking off (IT'S THE WWE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE FFS!) ? Orton was also awesome in this, and the moment with Foley was my personal highlight. Before the Foley greatness, Orton was shining in particular whenever he locked up with perhaps his greatest opponent ever, the Rabid Wolverine. Big Show's performance was great, Cena's performance was okay, and Angle's performance was.... VERY ANGLE-ISH (take that in whatever way you may........ SUPERKURT). GREAT, GREAT Match , doesn't come close to the 92 rumble but then again I don't think much does.

This PPV is a mixed bag. I say that because of this ; Avoid everything besides the Rumble. Nothing is really worth going out of your way to see besides that, and even though Eddie-Chavo is pretty good you must stay away due to a certain shittyness that I like to call the "Chavo Factor". The Rumble is awesome, watch it online if necessary but I'm sure the DVD can suffice. Since the Rumble is basically half the show and it IS awesome, I can't fail the show as a whole. GOOD.

*6/10*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Man, I absolutely love the '04 Rumble. Only ones I'd put above it are '07, '92 and '05.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Guerrero X2 is probably like the best Chavo match I've ever seen (hate that little fucker, seems to drag the life out of literally every single match that I've ever seen him in)
> .......
> 
> you must stay away due to a certain shittyness that I like to call the "Chavo Factor".


omg another one.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Smackdown 2005) - *****

Great TV match and i think it was better than the match they had at Summerslam.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

2004 Rumble is the GOAT Rumble.

- Benoit's performance from entering #1 and winning, fantastic.
- Big Show's dominance, great.
- Randy Orton, good showing.
- Goldberg, dominant as well. 
- Surprise returns, check.
- Superb ending, check.

Best RR match ever. ****1/2


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

92 is the perfect rumble. I would be tempted to give it *****1/4 just because Heenan's commentary adds so much. 

I watched the Shawn/Bret rivarly doc last night. I laughed, I cried. I felt immensely uncomfortable at times, but it was fascinating to see these two guys sit down and finally talk openly to one another about the situation. I wouldn't say that I learnt very much, but I found it wholly endearing to watch. JR led the interview as only he could. 

Shawn still comes across as dick at times and I wouldn't have it any other way. Bret was very honest and truthful, more real than Shawn. Like always, the two complimented each other perfectly. It broke my heart a little when Bret said that they probably would've wrestled for another decade had things gone down differently.

It'll be intereting to see what WWE do with their next Greatest Rivalries release. I know that Austin/Rock has been rumored for a while, and that would be brilliant, but it's hard to imagine that they'll be able to top what they've done with this release. I don't know why it took me so long to watch.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Shawn/Bret Greatest Rivalries probably wont be topped due to the fact that there was so much truth to it. An Austin/Rock set, yeah might go into detail about backstage stuff and all that but was there really much animosity between Austin & Rock to compare to the Bret/Shawn set?

A Heyman/Bischoff or a Bischoff/McMahon set... I'd pay to see that. Never gonna happen, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, the subject for another Greatest Rivalries would kinda HAVE to be something between 2 guys who had/have legit heat with each other otherwise its just another basic documentary for the most part. That being said, 2 guys sat down being interviewed by JR is always gonna be better than a basic documentary .

Fucking TNA. Ruining the WWE DVD business by hiring the likes of Bischoff and Hogan who could both have incredible sit down documentaries next to Vince McMahon lol.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I was trying to think of any "available" legit feuds that could rival the brilliance of a Shawn/Bret doc. 

Maybe Steiner/Hunter.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Ric Flair/Shane Douglas - There would probably be a fist fight at some point during it too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley/Flair would be cool to see too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> THAT FUCKING OPENER. What a terrible match, the only thing that saves it from being a complete and utter DUD is the GOAT's attempt to save it. Flair is god, we should all worship Flair instead of this Jesus Christ character, you are all subjects to him and his saggy man-titties. GOATS GONNA GOAT BABY! Anyways............. Terrible, terrible match and easily one of the worst opening matches to a PPV that I have EVER seen.


No, if I was gonna worship a wrestler, it would have to be Benoit despite the murderer tag attached to him.  (And I don't even believe he did it, so whatever!)

That Rumble match is the greatest ever IMO. Although I have yet to see 1992 so my opinion may not be the most credible in that regard. Will watch it as soon as I can bother with it, though. Now it's time for 2006 and I remember watching it when I first got into wrestling a few years ago.

And before I went to bed yesterday, I decided to watch that famous Smackdown 03 match between Kurt Angle and The Undertaker again since I got done with 03 five or so months ago. Absolutely incredible and their attempts at out-wrestling each other with submissions as well as the nearfalls was awesome. Also didn't mind the DQ finish as I would normally. ★★★★½.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Paul Heyman/Eric Bischoff would be awesome provided Heyman didn't kill him during it.


----------



## mcbo84 (Dec 4, 2012)

Bischoff/Heyman/Mcmahon Monday night wars edition would be the ultimate.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

How about Vince/Bischoff/Heyman all doing a Greatest Rivalries doc together sitting right beside eachother with JR interviewing them? 

That's a Must Buy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wouldnt mind seeing Heyman on a roundtable doc (has he done one?)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> I wouldnt mind seeing Heyman on a roundtable doc (has he done one?)


Nope, he hasn't. Wish he was part of the hardcore wrestling one that happened recently. Though he's be great on any of them.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> I wouldnt mind seeing Heyman on a roundtable doc (has he done one?)


Nope. Hopefully he does one. I love hearing Heyman's insight on things regarding wrestling. I'd love to see a roundtable with Heyman, Jim Ross, Pat Patterson, Michael Hayes, Mic Foley, and Road Dogg as they talk about the under achievers and over-achievers in wrestling. I know the topic was already covered but I would like to see Heyman give his 2 cents on this topic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2006:*

Cruiserweight Six Way - ★★¾
- A typical fast paced cruiserweight match with a lot of spots. Paul London is awesome as usual and that Shooting Star Press on the outside was insane. Gregory Helms comes back to Smackdown and wins the whole match. Also what took Jamie Noble so long? He had been gone for so long by this point. Unless he was on Velocity, that is.

Mickie James vs Ashley - ★★
- Not terrible but kind of dull and even though both try, it's nothing special. Just an okay match and at this point, I'm just waiting for Mickie to turn fully heel.

The Boogeyman vs JBL - 0
- I'll play word association game with this one. TRASH.

The Royal Rumble Match - ★★★½
- A very fun match that gets placed in the middle of the show for some stupid reason. Very entertaining and although it feels a bit too long and the middle part of it gets a bit boring with too many guys in the ring, I still loved it. But it does place the match below 2005 for that reason. Lots of highlights such as Rey Mysterio pulling off a Chris Benoit-like move and lasting the entire match for 62 minutes, his little piece of ring action with Triple H in the beginning (shame they never went one on one), Chris Benoit when he initially appears giving Germans and chops left and right as well as the return of Mr. Pay-Per-View, RVD, after being away for a year. He does have some ring rust as some moves are barely done successfully. The ending was also awesome with Rey using the "magic legs" to eliminate The Game (gets a HUGE pop) and then Orton. I think the whole "looking at Eddie up in heaven" part post-match was a bit over the top, though. Sucks that Vince is such a douchebag as he HAD to exploit Eddie's death directly afterwards in the Orton/Rey feud. Also heel Vince and his feud with Shawn Michaels is fucking boring. Can't believe I'm going to endure this shit for almost the whole year.

John Cena vs Edge - ★★½
- A decent title match which makes Edge a transitional champion and gets Cena back the gold. Starts off very boring with a lot of time spent on the outside and too much count-out shit then when Cena gets in and starts to get in some offense, the match really picks up. Still feels a bit slow and the ending is very half-assed Super Cena material as he suddenly gets an adrenaline rush and does his five moves of doom before putting Edge in the STFU for the victory. This was a very stupid move by the company since Cena was really starting to lose some of the boos during the Royal Rumble build-up as the title was finally off him after 9 long months. As we all know, the heat got worse after this by Wrestlemania time and beating Triple H did him no favors. Before I move on, I also have to put over Cena's AWESOME entrance which should have been saved for a Wrestlemania. Prefer it to any WM entrance he's had so far.

Kurt Angle vs Mark Henry - ★★
- A very boring main event to say the least. Too much of this "strong monster heel" shit going on which slows it down for a 9 minute long match. I did like the booking of Angle, despite being a face, resorting to cheating his way to victory, though. A rare thing that is not done very often by WWE in recent times and not even in the past unless it would part of a gimmick like Eddie Guerrero. Crowd is also bored at this point, probably curious why this main evented the show. Undertaker's appearance in the end was pretty cool, though. Loved how they did the effect thing so it looked like he had magical powers using his hands and I laughed at him arriving with a horse, lol. Pretty dull match but cool ending.

*Overall:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (This is a mixed bag with some good stuff and at least one real bad part. JBL/Boogeyman was horrible, the title matches were underwhelming while the opening two were okay filler. As usual with these PPVs, the Rumble match itself is the true savior. Far from the best match of its kind but a very enjoyable one with a great ending. It's safe to say I did enjoy the PPV overall and the ending to it was memorable even though it could've been saved for Smackdown that week as it did not exactly bump the buyrates. As far as I know, there was no promotions for Taker returning or anything so it was very pointless unless ratings were needed desperately.)


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Night of Champions 2012


#1-Intercontinental Championship: The Miz (c) vs Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio vs Sin Cara: ★ ★ ★ 1/2

Pretty good match. I thoroughly enjoyed this, I feel its underrated. The portions of Rey vs Cara were a bit slow and clunky though. I dislike the overused corner spot but I liked the finish with a blind Miz dropping Cody with the SCF to get the win. 

.
#2-Tag Team Championship: Kofi Kingston & R-Truth (c) vs Kane & Daniel Bryan: ★ ★ ★ 

Man the crowd absolutely LOVES Daniel Bryan. They like him so much they booed the faces. Kofi's hilo was a good spot (and he landed on his feet....sheesh). Pretty clunky finish but told the story of the unlikely duo bumbling into a win. 

.
#3-United States Championship: Antonio Cesaro (c) vs Zack Ryder: ★ ★ 

This was a pretty surprising contest because I actually expected to dud the fuck out of it. Crowd really into Ryder makes for good atmosphere. Ryder got some good offense in, his suplex counter into the neckbreaker was cool. You gotta love Cesaro's flapjack into the uppercut...which looked brutal. They did a good job of putting Ryder over by him not being destroyed and looking competitive. 
.
#4-Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton: ★ ★ ★

Man Ziggler is over, "Let's Go Ziggler" chants break out early...a smattering of boos for Randy which is surprising to say the least. Orton is incredibly uninspired in this match it seems. This match is slow, totally not what he and Ziggler are capable of, despite this the crowd breaks out into dueling "Let's Go" chants. I loved Randy's early slingshot suplex spot (word to Tully Blanchard) and the Fame Asser (Rocker Dropper) counter into a powerbomb as well. Zigs landed a leaping DDT, which was pretty cool. The match picked up the pace during "boo/yay" spot, which was awesome.. they were throwing hands so fast the crowd got confused they were heavy into Ziggler at that point. Awesome DDT on the floor by Randy, creative way to do that spot. Pretty dope flapjack into the RKO to finish. The match was fine for what it was but it leaves me confused. It had a huge PPV atmosphere with the crowd going ape for both but the action spoke more to it being a RAW/SD TV match...not really PPV worthy. 
.
#5-Divas Championship: Layla (c) vs Eve ★ 

I love me some Layla, I want her to mother my children, she's so damn cute. Her cheeks and face just make me wanna..... and Eve is FINE as in model FINE definitely the kind of woman my mama would tell me to stay away from....both very beautiful women in very different ways. I actually dig the chain wrestling they did. Layla is a better technician than some of the guys and Eve is a better heel than most of the guys (and as a Black heterosexual male I think her entrance theme kinda rocks it fits her perfectly). They actually putting in some work here, crowd doesn't give a fuck though. I didn't know Eve had a finisher but it looked cool, nice move. 
.
[I literally LOL'd at Kane dumping Gatorade on Bryan. Its was so ridiculous and it took me by surprise]
.
#6-World Heavyweight Championship: Sheamus (c) vs Alberto Del Rio: ★ ★ ★ 

Why in the fuck are they changing the rules right before the bell rings?! I hate to be THAT guy but small stuff like that is indicative of what's wrong with WWE. The heels are disadvantaged instead of the face being disadvantaged. Diatribe aside, Sheamus completed a good spot with the battering ram from the apron and the spot where Sheamus arm is trapped into the ropes was also a pretty good spot. Beautiful application of ADR's cross-armbreaker done as well. The match itself is a pretty pedestrian affair, their opportunity to tell a different story was blown to bits before the opening bell however. If you've seen any of their previous matches this is no different. I truly believe that heel ADR was handicapped with a submission finisher since none of the top faces ever submit and all the stories of his matches revolved around him weakening the arm for its effectiveness. 
.
#7-WWE Championship: CM Punk (c) vs John Cena: 
★ ★ ★ ★ 3/4

I totally forgot about the build to this match but jesus the video package was so well done I feel like this is huge for the careers of both guys. Such intensity from Cena is a rarity these days, I had to call somebody an "ignorant son of a bitch" in commemoration. 


An actual slow, traditional start to this one, I'm surprised because Its too much like 80s pro-wrestling. The procrastinating heel picking his spots. I mean damn a drop toe hold into a bridge? Since when do they do that? A very timely "that is wrestling" chant, from the smarks I bet. Fisherman buster on the floor was a good spot and goes into the theme of doing signature spots in different positions at this event. 


Punk shows some intelligence by blocking most of Cena's signature spots and offense which is a creative direction for the match and usually a guy only counters one or two moves. Cena's strength really on display to counter and break free of Punk's intelligent offense.


WHAT THE FUCK?!?! A suicide dive from Cena?!?! Lol crazy, gotta give John Boy credit that was very well done. 

A wonderful Anaconda Vice into the STF into the crippler crossface chain...Punk's counters are on point. Cena's GTS counter into the STF was also very well done, I'm actually surprised at this match. Cena kicking out of the GTS wasn't much of a surprise but the crowd really popped for it, a small "let's go cena" chant breaks out afterwards..the atmosphere has been awesome all night by the way, Boston rocked!


JBL really helps the story move along. He basically telling you what's going on. That's great commentating. He also brings intelligence and experience to the booth. 


Punk's moonsault was very, very ugly....but it furthers the story of Punk trying to find a way to keep Cena down...he whiffed it terribly though, he would have missed even if Cena didn't move. Punk is desperate, you can feel it, see it and understand it. 


This match is fuckin awesome! (The crowd agrees). 

The finish was......not good, very clunky and awkward. Incredibly anti-climatic but what a fantastic story and well worked match. I don't mind the draw but there had to be a better way to do it. This match was obviously used to set up the HIAC match that never came but incredible match nonetheless. ​*​

I love Night of Champions as an event, once again its my favorite PPV of the year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Does anyone like WCW 1995 nitro's? Watching some stuff now, can't remember it to well.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

NOC 12

Fatal 4 Way: * (I HATED this)
Tag: **
Cesaro/Ryder: *3/4
Ziggler/Orton: ***1/2
Layla/Eve: *
Sheamus/DelRio: **1/2
Punk/Cena: ****1/4 (I really liked the big match feel surrounding this)


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

That's irrelevant said:


> Nope. Hopefully he does one. I love hearing Heyman's insight on things regarding wrestling. I'd love to see a roundtable with Heyman, Jim Ross, Pat Patterson, Michael Hayes, Mic Foley, and Road Dogg as they talk about the under achievers and over-achievers in wrestling. I know the topic was already covered but I would like to see Heyman give his 2 cents on this topic.


Are these roundtables uploaded on Youtube anywhere? The recent ones I mean, I'm aware of the older ones being up.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

All the Legends of Wrestling episodes are on XWT on a freeleach iirc


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

SmokeandMirrors,

Here are a couple of the newer ones (I think) that are really good:

The Territories:






Legends of Tag Team Wrestling:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Does anyone like WCW 1995 nitro's? Watching some stuff now, can't remember it to well.


Awesome from a nostalgic standpoint + myself being a WCW mark. Only matches I recall jumping out at me are Pillman vs Liger & Benoit vs Eddie (which was just about the best match on Nitro during '95)

Sting worked vs Malenko. Do believe it was far too short to be anything special. Which was the same for Flair vs Anderson in the Cage. Oh, the Joshi tag following World War 3 was quality. I'll show some love there. Remembering every single detail would be much easier if I was home atm with my BOOKS.

Yet, I remember the classic Giant vs Cobra match. Why?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

OMG CODYS BACK


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

~!

Got to love that steampile which was called the matches for WWE TV this week. Not going to say I'm surprised considering the year one begin on a high note till RAW on monday, but wow did every match have to be blah or suck? Guess I shouldn't complain. Kofi Kingston is back to jobbing, Heath Slater got exposure, & Antonio Cesaro main evented Smackdown + destroyed the Great Khali. This won't stand from now on. I want at least a quality match per week again. Not a Mae Young pregnant segment that makes me far and way baffled to question why I love this stuff. Fuck me. The hand was better...

Disappointment rant over. Catching up on 2011 atm. What's next: Summerslam or TLC?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SmokeAndMirrors said:


> Are these roundtables uploaded on Youtube anywhere? The recent ones I mean, I'm aware of the older ones being up.


These are the latest two episodes. Both are really good like most of the roundtable topics they feature.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Favorite NON-Wrestler Wrestling persona ever ?

For me, it would have to be Bobby Heenan. The guy legit makes ANYTHING watchable for me with his one liners and his quick wit. The guy makes me add on an extra half star for seemingly every match he's involved with due to how he drags you in. Really sells all heels as evil and all faces as greek gods. A comedic goldmine, and probably the funniest man EVER in wrestling. As a matter of fact, I'd argue that he was THE bad guy of the Hulk Hogan Rock N' Wrestling era, as he managed a ton of the guys that Hulk went against (including being the catalyst for Hulk-Andre). Have no idea on the current status of his health but GOD DAMN I wanna hear him again.

I feel like in order to make this post complete, I need to post an incoherent rambling about my love for DA GAME. So here it is...... HIS PPV STAR RATINGZ WITH KEVIN NASH :

JD 03 : *1/2**
INSX 03 : *****
BB 03 : **** 1/4*
TLC 11 : **** 1/4*

I actually like all of their matches besides the Judgment Day match, which can honestly go fuck itself. Nobody besides Hunter would get anything out of Nash this day in age anyways. I can also understand everybody disagreeing with me, thinking I'm a crackpot HHH mark who will say anything to promote his one true man-crush in this universe...

SCREW YOU :hhh


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

The GOAT:










I guess I like him because...I don't know why, I just do. 



Fabulous Rougeaus vs The Rockers (Paris, France World Tour Coliseum Video Date Unknown) ***

It was an okay match, nothing special. The Parisian crowd set a nice atmosphere.


Edit: About Trips, if he's not this: 








no deal.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two matches were revealed for *Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection *today. I know nothing about either of them, but I bet they're good:

*2-out of-3 Falls Match for the British Commonwealth Jr. Heavyweight Championship*
Bret Hart vs. Dynamite Kid
_Stampede Wrestling • December 1978_

Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
_Sun City Superbowl • September 14, 1996_


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Two matches were revealed for *Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection *today. I know nothing about either of them, but I bet they're good:
> 
> *2-out of-3 Falls Match for the British Commonwealth Jr. Heavyweight Championship*
> Bret Hart vs. Dynamite Kid
> ...


(Y) Sun City, that's one of the (or was there only one lol) South Africa match(s).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Favorite NON-Wrestler Wrestling persona ever ?


:vince3 all the way. He entertains me no matter what he's doing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Bret Hart/Stone Cold (Survivor Series 1996), love this match, such a variety in moves from both men really, starts off with some holds from both, then decends into some technical stuff, some brawling on the outside, Austin is great here, love his offence. Great match.

What a maneuver :vince2


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

Favorite non-wrestling personality 

Obviously. :vince
Da Boss


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Two matches were revealed for *Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection *today. I know nothing about either of them, but I bet they're good:
> 
> *2-out of-3 Falls Match for the British Commonwealth Jr. Heavyweight Championship*
> Bret Hart vs. Dynamite Kid
> ...


YES! I'm very much looking forward to the rest of the match list.




zep81 said:


> (Y) Sun City, that's one of the (or was there only one lol) South Africa match(s).


The other one I know that's available on video from the '96 World Tour was in Kuwait City.

I had a blast re-watching and reviewing Bret-Austin matches together last year. It's one of my Top 5 favorite rivalries of all time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret/Austin ... Seems as if we've NEVER talked about them for some reason. When I think about that feud, all I can think about is *Clique*'s beautiful write-up he had a while back about the series along with his ratings. I can't wait for the Dungeon Collection, could potentially be one of the greatest DVDs ever as far as we know.... Hell, it could unearth a few hidden *****+* matches that most of the world haven't seen. Bret is fucking AWESOME.

I have their match from Wrestlemania XIII as my 4th GOAT WWE match , and the match from Survivor Series as my 12th GOAT WWE match. Never saw their other PPV encounters unfortunately, hopefully we'll get one of them on the DUNGEON set along with the South Africa match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Austin/Bret WM 13 is arguably the best match in company history.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Austin/Bret WM 13 is arguably the best match in company history.


Pretty much. I forgot who said it (I think it was Pat Patterson but I'm not really sure) but someone on the Legends of Wrestling rountable said that this match is how hardcore wrestling SHOULD be done. It was brutal, intense, told a perfect story, and they didn't beat each for the sake of it. Their match went right along with their on-going feud. Plus, it put Austin over as a fan favorite and Bret Hart as a hated heel. A perfect match from start to finish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

John Cena vs Edge (Raw 30/1/2006) - ★★★¼
- A fun rematch from the Royal Rumble and also a lot better. They speed up the ring action a bit and it's also less 'routine like' with Cena never fully resorting to the 5 moves of doom completely. Gets just enough time although a couple more minutes wouldn't have hurt. I am very confused by the finish, though. Lita hits Edge with the belt and Edge wins the match as result of a disqualification but obviously not the belt. Yet, Jerry Lawler is there questioning the decision even though the person who gets hit with an illegal object is always the one who wins by DQ in such situations.

Triple H vs Chavo Guerrero (Raw 30/1/2006) - ★★¼
- Not a bad match but rather dull and lengthy. Their chemistry is not exactly the best and there's too much Eddie sucking up for me to fully get into it. Chuckled at Hunter mocking Eddie's little dance, though. AND he got cheered for it, then he looked up to the sky in "questionable" ways and finally got the crowd to turn on him.

Undertaker vs Hulk Hogan (Judgment Day 2002) - ★★★
- Good match for Hogan's standards in 2002 and Undertaker does a very good job. Hogan sticks to his traditional punches and occasional chops plus the hulking up but otherwise, it's Undertaker who carries the match for the most part. It's also kept short and sweet at about 12-14 minutes (if you count the whipping in the beginning). Hogan should've done the clean job, though. His ego and absolute refusal to lose is very annoying to watch nowadays. But still a joy to see Undertaker get the belt and I lol'd at the chair guillotine Taker gives Hogan post-match.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Had half an hour to kill in town earlier, so popped into CEX. Picked up No Way Out '06, Armageddon '06 and Backlash '08 for a whopping... 7 quid. Thoughts?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

jomo17 said:


> Had half an hour to kill in town earlier, so popped into CEX. Picked up No Way Out '06, Armageddon '06 and Backlash '08 for a whopping... 7 quid. Thoughts?


All three are good-great shows. NWO '06 is awesome, Armageddon has some good stuff and I like the main events of Backlash although it doesn't like up to Backlash '06, '07 or '09.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Brye said:


> All three are good-great shows. NWO '06 is awesome, Armageddon has some good stuff and I like the main events of Backlash although it doesn't like up to Backlash '06, '07 or '09.


I've never seen them - NWO, looking forward to Angle/Taker which a few people have thrown 5* at. Also i'm a fairly big Morrison mark, so the tag looks pretty cool.

Never seen the other two but for 7 quid, i'm not complaining...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love Armageddon 06. 4 way tag ladder match is one of the better "spot fest" type matches. Inferno is as good as a match can be when you are surrounded by FIRE, Last Ride match is really good, I recall a good CW match (Helms/Yang?) too. Main event is disappointing though.

Oh hey, don't forget to check my blog (link in sig) for more Royal Rumble Ramblings . Posted 1991 a few hours ago. RR match from that event is one of my favs, and the tag opener is awesome. [/cheap plug]


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im watching flair/sting from a 1995 nitro in november i think. good match. also have seen liger/pillman, luger/macho man, guerrero/benoit x 2, guerrero/malenko


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Armageddon '06 is such a mixed bag event. Ladder ruled, I liked Helms/Yang & Benoit/Chavo, Inferno was tolerable, and the rest was...there. Hate the main event & Last Ride is a bust.

For the hell of it:

Inferno - * _(watchable thanks to KANE)_
Ladder - ****
Miz vs Boogeyman - DUD
Benoit vs Chavo - ***
Helms vs Yang - ***
Last Ride - *1/2
Cena & Batista vs Booker T & Finlay - *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The good stuff from Arm 06:



Spoiler: Armageddon 06



*Kane Vs MVP - Inferno Match - Armageddon December 17th 2006*

Yeah, can't say I am expecting this to be good. I believe I mentioned before that you would have to have a Eugene IQ to expect greatness from this .

The match starts, and MVP begs for Kane to not kill him. Surprisingly... it doesn't work .

Looking back, I really think that putting MVP in this type of match so soon into his SD and WWE run (debuted in October) showed that WWE had confidence in the guy and expected him to be a big player in the future as well perhaps. I still think he could be if they gave him a real chance.

Kane is having fun, beating up MVP and getting ready to set him on fire. MVP on the other hand is fighting for survival, but it isn't working for the most part.

:lmao at one of the sides going out, followed by another one right after they get it lit again.

:lmao at MVP almost landing on the turnbuckle padding that Kane took off and set on fire. Match could have ended right there! Also, holy shit at how close MVP came to the fire AGAIN when he was trying to baseball slide Kane into it, and Kane moved. How he stopped himself I will never know.

Oh hey... one of the sides has gone out. AGAIN. Can WWE do nothing right?!?!?! 

Why is that that all inferno matches HAVE to go outside the ring for someone to get set on fire? Can they not figure out a way for someone to get set on fire IN the ring?

Its not too long after going to the outside that MVP's back is set on fire, and this one is over.

Its not great, but given the circumstances (FIRE~!) its probably one of the better ones (better. Out of 4. 4 matches with FIRE~!). I was entertained by it .

And completely random(ish)... I love Kane's theme by Finger Eleven.

*Rating: ***


*Brian Kendrick & Paul London Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor Vs MNM Vs The Hardy Boys - Tag Team Title Ladder Match - Armageddon December 17th 2006*

Another one of those "I hate it but I love it" matches. I hate it because I wanted to see Londrick Vs Team England, but I love it because its one of the better ladder matches. Grrrr!!!

Until I watched all of SD 06, I actually thought this match was where MNM returned, but it turns out they were back before this, and they had a nice little match with Londrick .

Ok, time to get down to business. This is spots. SPOTS~! and plenty of them. And when it comes down to it, its probably the BEST pure SPOTS~! ladder match. Its even better than the SPOTS~! TLC matches. I'd only put a handful of Ladder/TLC matches above this one, and that's because those ones are more than just spots.

There really is just so much greatness here. From little things like Londrick and The Hardys clearing the ring and then looking at the titles before getting it on, to one of the most brutal spots in any ladder match... Mercury having his face destroyed. When you think of Hell in a Cell, odds are the first thing you think of is Foley being thrown off the top. When you think of ladder matches, THAT spot is what I think of.

Regal & Taylor are funny as hell in the match, when it turns out both of them are afraid of heights :lmao. They make up for that with their brutality though, especially Regal and THAT suplex on the ladder. Might not be as remembered as the Mercury spot, but it might very well be my favourite spot of the match.

Just an amazing 20 minute rollercoaster ride of a ladder match. I think it made it on my list, but I won't know for sure until I look again .

*Rating: *****


*Gregory Helms Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - CW Title - Armageddon December 17th 2006*

Helms has perhaps become complacent over the last few months or so, since he rarely defended the CW title (at least on SD and PPV), and when someone like Yang comes along and challenges him for it, he probably doesn't think he is in any danger of losing it because he has held it for so long.

Yang gets the early advantage, taking Helms by surprise maybe, or maybe he is just really motivated to win the belt. It takes a little time, but Helms finally gets focused and the match turns in his favour.

Now that Helms is more focused, he starts getting more and more confident. He takes his time and taunts the crowd, because he believes nothing can stop him now. Yang does a nice job with his comeback; always was a big fan of his offence, especially that awesome looking running heel kick in the corner where he goes over the ropes too.

Only thing to really dislike about this match is the crowd. Apparently good wrestling is boring. So ummm... why did they come to a wrestling PPV again? 

Wanna know how Helms wins the match? One word... CODEBREAKER! Jericho stole it from Helms! And Helms probably stole it from someone else... but yeah, Jericho stole it!!!

Great match, another great showing from Helms on PPV. Man was the backbone of the mid-card PPV matches in 2006.

*Rating: ****


*The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Armageddon December 17th 2006*

They've had a singles match on PPV which ended in a DQ. Then they had a First Blood match on PPV which ended in controversial fashion. So the only way to end it in a definitive way? Last Ride Match! Ok, maybe not the match I would have picked, but it was only the second Last Ride Match ever at the time (has there been any more? I honestly don't remember lol), and hell, I'm all for newish matches than them using a way overused match instead (HIAC would have been a decent option for this match, but even that had been overused by this point in time, and had continued to get worse over the last few years lol).

A similar start to this match compared to their First Blood match, with Undertaker going right after Kennedy and just beating the shit out of him. A couple of nice small spots too, like Undertaker throwing Kennedy onto the table (and Kennedy bascially doing a flip onto it), and then Undertaker launching Kennedy from the table face first to the ring apron.

But Kennedy, as we have seen in all of their previous matches, is pretty resilient, and he manages to reverse Old School, and then goes after Undertaker like a wolf after a wounded sheep (well, that comparison sucked lol).

Its only moments later than they end up at the Hearse, with Kennedy showing Undertaker in and trying his best to close it! Its not happening though, not just yet, as Undertaker boots Kennedy in the face and goes right back to work on the "future of Smackdown" ( :lmao not any more he ain't).

Undertaker's offence is pretty great here, though I'm sure that's all opinion based. I love his elbows, kicks and then legdrop on the apron, and I know some people don't like it too much (screw them!  ). Plus I love his strikes too. Oh, and the man his a pretty stellar looking superplex when he pulls it out.

Out of nowhere Kennedy applies a sleeper hold (OMG ZIGGLER STOLENZ KENNEDYS MUVE!), and Undertaker appears to be out! Into the Hearse he goes, and the door shuts! Kennedy goes to get in the driver's seat... and Undertaker pops out instead! Now Kennedy is pretty pissed. He has had 2 chances to get Undertaker in the Hearse for good, and both times Undertaker has escaped. So what to do next? Steel chair .

Undertaker takes numerous chair shots... and sits right back up!!! Kennedy doesn't seem to have any more ideas, so he runs! Where to? The top of the Armageddon stage of course, where else!?!?

SPOT! And no, its NOT Kennedy that takes it! Undertaker is thrown off the stage after a short brawl. I have to say, even though you can see how soft the landing is AFTER he has landed, the camera angle for the fall makes it look pretty fucking awesome.

After the spot, it looks like Kennedy has this one in the bag, and who could argue with that point right now? Undertaker is dragged to the Hearse and stuffed into the back, and Kennedy gets behind the wheel. Cut to a camera inside, and we see Undertaker sit up and drag Kennedy to the back and out of the door!

Now Undertaker is pissed. Really pissed. How often do you see Undertaker grab a steel pipe to attack someone with? A few steel chair shots later (the pipe only manages to break a window  ), and Kennedy is bleeding. This one is nearly over, but not before Kennedy is Chokeslammed on the roof of the Hears! And not in the shitty way JBL was Chokeslammed through the limo in 04! If that wasn't enough though, Undertaker makes damn sure this one is going to be over, because even though he is in control again, he knows that Kennedy took the fight right to him and almost won a couple of times, so he finishes him off with a Tombstone on top of the Hearse!

The Dead Man then drives off with Kennedy in the back, and this one is over!

A good match, but like their First Blood match... its not on the level as their non gimmick matches. I think they work better without weapons tbh. Their NM, Germany House Show and SD 07 matches are all better than this and their First Blood match imo, and they were all under regular rules. However, this is still a good match, around the same level as their First Blood.

Overall, I really enjoyed this series between Undertaker and Kennedy. 2 ****1/4 matches, a ***3/4 match, and now 2 ***1/2 matches. Good stuff! And I'm really glad I went back and watched these again, but I don't remember any of them being as good.

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Armageddon crowd was utter shit pardon the first two matches. That hurt the show.

Last Ride is so meh. Dead crowd combined with a dead match. Taker killing Kennedy was cool. That's purely personal enjoyment. It was the weakest of their PPV matches for me. First Blood was the only one I really got into.

Watching Backlash '08 now. It's a pretty terrible show with a hot crowd. Go figure.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

the fuck am i watching :lmao hogans promos are so lolworthy

DUNGEON OF DOOM BROTHER


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> the fuck am i watching :lmao hogans promos are so lolworthy
> 
> DUNGEON OF DOOM BROTHER


WEARING ALL BLACK


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WHERES THE RED AND YELLOW BROTHER


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dungeon of Doom needed more of THE LEPRECHAUN


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Leprechaun aka Dwayne Bruce aka SGT. BUDDY LEE PARKER.

:lmao they even label the video like that too. What are the odds.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I know he gets shit on due to being inducted into the HOF over bigger names, but did Koko B. Ware have any matches that are worth looking for?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SpookshowTony said:


> I know he gets shit on due to being inducted into the HOF over bigger names, but did Koko B. Ware have any matches that are worth looking for?


Not in WWF that I know of. You'd have to check out his stuff from Memphis. Other people should be able to give you actual matches, I haven't made it far enough into the Memphis set to help .


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks anyway, Big Z. A spelunking I will go. (maybe not, was just wondering)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2008*

Ric Flair vs MVP : *** ½*
Chris Jericho vs JBL : *****
Edge vs Rey Mysterio : **** 1/4*
Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy: *** 1/2*
Royal Rumble Match : **** 1/2*

Not a single bad match on the card. Jericho-JBL felt like Eddie-JBL LITE with the violence and the choking and such, great match. SMARKY NY CROWD IS SMARKY FOR EDGE. Which was stupid, since you know..... Edge can't lace Mysterio's boots in the ring  Reaaaalllyyyy good match from the two with some good knee work and sleazy heel tactics from Edge. Heard alot of negativity thrown towards Flair-MVP and I don't even give a fuck..... FLAIR = GOD and it's a good match you fuckers... Well.... It's a decent match you fuckers 

WWE Championship was okay also. Don't like Jeff's offense in the slightest and I felt Orton wasn't as sharp as he usually was. Can't stand him from 08-11 to be honest, felt like he tried WAAAYYYY too hard to be menacing as a heel. He had a few really good matches in that time period, but this was really just OKAY. Both were getting reactions from DAT SMARKY NEW YORK CROWD, and this was during the OMGJEFF4PREZ arc that I didn't care for, but nonetheless it was decent.

RUMBLE MATCH WAS REALLY GOOD. I don't care if as soon as number 30 hit we all knew Cena was goona win.... Great match is great...... Taker-HBK showdown was all kinds of epic... THE GAME was epic in this one... THE ANIMAL.... MARK "ratingz" Henry..... HORNSWO..... Okay not everything was great but you know what I mean ? ........Last four was as good as it gets, my criticisms stem from the fact that people like SNITSKY REAAALLLYY overstayed their welcome... Random Undertaker act of violence towards Snitsky is epic :lol

Not a single bad match on the card... Nothing CLASSIC, but a good show with a great MSG crowd nonetheless. 

*6.5/10*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DO NOT LIKE the 08 RR match. One of my least favourites alone with 99 and 95. I get bored with it outside of the opening with HBK/Undertaker, and the mini battles between HHH/Foley and Piper/Snuka as throw backs to old MSG feuds/matches. Didn't Finlay get fucking DQ'd from the match for using a weapon too? How fucking bullshitty is that? Half the 01 RR should have been DQ'd if that was the case, including the winner Austin. Bah.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Finlay got DQ'ed for coming out early to save Hornswoggle from BIG FAT BLACK GUY X2. Apparently Finlay "jumped the gun" or so they say, fuck Hornswoggle 

Watching Randy Orton's Superstar Collection right now, which features two Triple H matches that I remember being pretty average. OH IT'S THE 3SOH MATCH THAT I LIKE BUT EVERYBODY ELSE SEEMS TO HATE........... I actually don't remember this... Hmmm that's not a very good thing in the slightest. FUCK RAW 2009.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^Wasn't Finlay DQ'd for "jumping the gun", entering before his time because he went out to protect Hornswoggle?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well either way its bullshit and a crappy RR match. Hated Jericho/JBL too. Was turd on last watch .


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

The Rumble match was good until *he* came out and ruined everything. Throwing this out there, the previous line sounds like an anti-Cena thing but it isn't. I'm not on this "turn him heel" or "it's cool to boo him" bandwagon. I'm indifferent to him. I read alot of posts bitching about the Star Wars promo but he got me with the "Woo Woo Wookie" thing. I thought that was funny. He can, but probably can't evolve because Vince has to act like he gives a shit about the kids, which leads a majority of the members of this forum to blast everything he does. You know those buttons on your remote that says "Mute", "+Channel-" and "Power"? Use them if you don't like what you see. That goes for those who hate Punk, Ziggler, Bryan, etc. /rant

Just getting some things off my chest.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched Hunter/Orton Three Stages of Hell.

MY GOD.... Is that match the biggest borefest I've ever seen in my life or what ? They seem likt they're just stalling and stalling for 20 minutes straight. By the end of the match I was going to say "Well Orton worked Trips leg and such so it wasn't that bad".... Until I saw one of the DUMBEST things I've ever seen in a while... WHY WOULD TRIPS HIDE A SLEDGEHAMMER ON THE FUCKING STAGE ?!?!?!?!?!! I understand he needed some "backup" , but WHY THERE ? WHY ? IT MADE NO FUCKING SENSE.

Watching the Night of Champions 2009 triple threat right now... GOODY.... This DVD looks like it has a ton of potential to SUCCCCKKKKKK big time. Shame, since Orton's actually a pretty damn good worker. I could change my opinion on this though, you never know..... THREE STAGES OF BULLSHIT GETS ** 3/4* from me. Not THAT horrible... BUT CHA KNOW .....


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hated when Cena came out in the 08 RR. I knew he was winning the moment he showed up, and that sucked balls. I do love how the MSG crowd go nuts because it was a huge surprise, then boo again when they realise they aren't supposed to like him :lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SpookshowTony said:


> I know he gets shit on due to being inducted into the HOF over bigger names, but did Koko B. Ware have any matches that are worth looking for?


I don't think I've ever seen a Koko match I didn't like in some way. I would call him one of the most underrated wrestlers of all time, but people shit on him without actually watching him so that doesn't count.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

You know whats a great Royal Rumble match? The 2004 one.

Rewatched it last night. Still one of the best Rumbles ever


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Re-watching Rock vs Triple H for the WWF title on an episode of Raw in 1998, I miss when upper mid-carders used to get WWE World title shots even though they weren't booked to win the match. Like Jeff Hardy challenging The Undertaker for the Undisputed WWE title in a ladder match or Shawn Michaels who was still a mid-carder taking on Bret Hart for the WWF title at Survivor Series 1992. I can see WWE doing something like this with Kofi Kingston or Damien Sandow. It would be cool if they let Antonio Cesaro challenge for the WWE title or World Heavyweight title just to test the waters with him by rubbing elbows with a WWE World champion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TIS A ***** 1/4* RUMBLE SHE IS. WATCHED HER THE OTHER NIGHT. 

*Superstar Collection : Randy Orton*

Randy Orton vs Triple H (The Bash 2009) : ** ¾*
Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H (Night of Champions 2009) : *** ¾*
Randy Orton vs Ted Dibiase (RAW 03/10) : *¾ **
Randy Orton vs Christian (Capitol Punishment 2011) : **** 1/2*

Besides the last match (WHICH IS AWESOME), this DVD is a TERRIBLE representation of what Orton is capable of in the ring. The Three Stages of Hell match is just like most of the Orton-Hunter encounters ; plodding, boring, with shades of ridiculousness thrown in on the side. I still can't get over the sledgehammer hidden in the stage, what a fucking dumb idea. For a three stages of HELL match, there really isn't much intensity involved, it gets points for some good sequences however (as in.... HHH's gameplan which has been done before in ironman matches). WHY WOULD THEY PICK THIS MATCH TO SHOWCASE ORTON ? HE IS HORRIBLE IN IT 

The Night of Champions match is a weird one ; whenever Trips and Cena are in the ring it's fucking awesome, but for some reason whenever Orton is involved the match regresses heavily. This is probably the slowest triple threat I have ever seen in my life, and doesn't come close to their Wrestlemania XXIV greatness (**** 1/2* on last watch FYI) , but this match is by no means bad. It has shades of being a really good match at times with some spots, even though the direction of the match coupled with the pace cripples it heavily. If this were Miz-Kofi-Barrett I would probably be like OMGGREATESZTMATCHEVA, but for these 3 I expect alot more. Orton is fucking HORRIBLE in this, so why this is on HIS DVD blows my fucking mind.

The Dibiase match shouldn't even exist, let alone be featured on a fucking DVD. WHY WAS THIS ON HERE ? They couldn't have picked a better match under 10 minutes to showcase Orton ? This was just a waste of my life barring about 30 seconds of solid action between the two. Would have made a whole lot more fucking sense if we had to get the MANIA XXVI triple threat on here and used this as a lead in (Like a GOOD DVD... Shawn's SC), but this as a standalone match fucking sucks and serves absolutely no purpose. 

The Capitol Punishment match is AWESOME and saves this from being one of the worst DVDs ever made. A third of this DVD is spent on this match, which is a good thing as it plays to Orton's strengths ; working with a superior worker (Christian) and selling his concussion like a straight up fucking BO$$. The Orton-Christian series as a whole is one of the most consistent main event level feuds that WWE has done over the last decade or so (Pretty sure there were 6 matches over a four month period or something, ALL **** 1/2+* with a few classics in the mix. Glad we got this match on here, as a lot of people probably haven't bought the Capitol Punishment DVD due to bad hype, despite it having a handful of really good matches on it.

THIS IS A BUDGET RELEASE, so I wasn't expecting The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection... But COME ON.... Four matches, and Orton is downright horrendous in three of them ? Give me a fucking break. If you own Capitol Punishment 2011, don't buy this.... Purchase if you're a big-time Orton fan or if you collect every DVD (in which I don't need to tell you to buy it anyways). In terms of Superstar Collections so far (Seen all of them besides KOFI's) , this one has probably been the second worst one next to Ryder... But COME ON... It's ORTON... How hard is it to make a good Orton DVD ? Grading it for WHAT IT IS (not the same as grading a show or a 3-disc) , it still fails.... But the Christian match is worth a watch.

*3.5/10*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That's irrelevant said:


> Re-watching Rock vs Triple H for the WWF title on an episode of Raw in 1998, I miss when upper mid-carders used to get WWE World title shots even though they weren't booked to win the match.


I also watched that today on WWE Classics. Pretty entertaining episode the night after Rock Bottom. 

Heard people talking about dead crowd reactions and Undertaker vs. Ken Shamrock from Backlash '99 (also on WWE Classics right now) had for the most part a very dead crowd and when they did make noise it was 'Boring' chants and 'End This Match' lol. You can tell Taker tried to put a good wrestling match together with Shamrock telling the story of Shamrock's submission attacks as a challenge for Taker throughout the match. Ken Shamrock although he brought a lot of intensity and aggression with his persona and in his matched to came off to me kind of looking lost in the ring as far as directing the pacing of his matches/timing of moves. I noticed it even in the Canadian Stampede tag which is reasonable because he was relatively new at that time and this match was a couple years later. He needed a lot of direction. I liked a few of the submission counters and wrestling transitions they put together but the crowd just couldn't give a fuck about what they were doing. It was kind of difficult to watch, tbh.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Best Orton vs. Christian match by FAR is the Over The Limit 2011 match. ****3/4 match. 

Those guys had some fucking awesome matches. Too bad the feud was mostly garbage.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2008 is a great Rumble. Cena's return is one of the greatest Rumble moments ever. ****


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*2000 Fully Loaded - Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker
*

★3/4

*2000 Survivor Series - Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker*

★★★

*WWE Smackdown 2002-06-20 - Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle*

★★

*WWE Smackdown 2002-07-04 - Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle*

★★

*WWE Smackdown 2003-09-04 - Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker*

★★★★

*2006 No Way Out - Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker
*
★★★★3/4

*WWE Smackdown 2006-03-03 - Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker*
★★★★1/2

The series did start off poorly. The Fully Loaded match is basically a glorified 10 minute squash. The Survivor Series match is okay but still quite mediocre considering the time it got and was a bit boring in parts. Then there is the two Smackdown matches which are decent tv matches and you can see the foundations being laid for the great matches that follow. I would have gone the full five for NWO just felt with a bit more to diversity at the end would have helped it.​


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

Clique said:


> I also watched that today on WWE Classics. Pretty entertaining episode the night after Rock Bottom.
> 
> Heard people talking about dead crowd reactions and Undertaker vs. Ken Shamrock from Backlash '99 (also on WWE Classics right now) had for the most part a very dead crowd and when they did make noise it was 'Boring' chants and 'End This Match' lol. You can tell Taker tried to put a good wrestling match together with Shamrock telling the story of Shamrock's submission attacks as a challenge for Taker throughout the match. Ken Shamrock although he brought a lot of intensity and aggression with his persona and in his matched to came off to me kind of looking lost in the ring as far as directing the pacing of his matches/timing of moves. I noticed it even in the Canadian Stampede tag which is reasonable because he was relatively new at that time and this match was a couple years later. He needed a lot of direction. I liked a few of the submission counters and wrestling transitions they put together but the crowd just couldn't give a fuck about what they were doing. It was kind of difficult to watch, tbh.



Is that the match were Chyna turned heel by low blowing HHH?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2008 Rumble is a lot of fun and turns OH MAH GAWD when Trips comes out at 29 and then Cena at 30. MSG loses their shit lol and it's great to watch.

*Never Before, Never Again
Survivor Series 2011
John Cena & The Rock vs. Awesome Truth - ***

Super cool to see Rocky back in the ring after all that time. The NYC crowd was vocal as always. Poor John Cena is all I can say really lol.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> 2008 Rumble is a lot of fun and turns OH MAH GAWD when Trips comes out at 29 and then Cena at 30. MSG loses their shit lol and it's great to watch.
> 
> *Never Before, Never Again
> Survivor Series 2011
> ...


NYC - "YOU CANT WRESTLE!"

Cena - "I'll show them"

(does some snap-mares, a monkey flip and a dropkick)

NYC - "YOU STILL SUCK!"


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Survivor Series tag was pretty decent IMO considering who was in there. You had a returning Rock (who isn't exactly Chris Benoit to begin with) with a considerable amount of ring rust against MIZ AND FUCKING R TRUTH OUT OF ALL PEOPLE ? Cena was the best worker in that match by a mile and it really showed. Still prefer the Vengeance tag with the Punk/Trips SUPER-DUPER team...... Even if it gets constantly shit all over 

Actually, it sounds really weird to say that Punk and Trips were a tag team at one point. What the fuck.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

BANKSY said:


> *2000 Fully Loaded - Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker
> *
> 
> ★3/4
> ...


Saw that 7/4/02 one a couple days ago for the first time an spit out my water at the finish. Had never seen Taker tap before.



The Cynical Miracle said:


> NYC - "YOU CANT WRESTLE!"
> 
> Cena - "I'll show them"
> 
> ...


:lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brye said:


> Saw that 7/4/02 one a couple days ago for the first time an spit out my water at the finish. *Had never seen Taker tap before*.
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao



....And on that day, *CAL* cried a thousand rivers. :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What's the S. Series where DX buried Mike Knox by asking who he was? :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2006. They squashed everybody while CM PUNK got the loudest reactions of anybody in the ring despite being in there with both the HARDYZ and DEGENERATION X.

unk2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He never lost though . DRAW. RETAINS TITLE. WOOO. 8*D.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> What's the S. Series where DX buried Mike Knox by asking who he was? :lmao


That was the '06 one. "Wait...oh, he was part of the match?" :lmao:lmao


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

That survivor series match was hilarious


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The-Rock-Says said:


> Is that the match were Chyna turned heel by low blowing HHH?


Nah. There was a run-in from Bradshaw with a baseball bat at the end of it. HHH & Chyna had just turned heel at Mania the PPV before and she was in HHH's corner and he faced X-Pac at Backlash.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm gonna need to find that match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That BACKLASH match against X-Pac is awesome. One of the best Waltman matches I've ever seen, his gold standard of course being his 1994 RAW match against one of the greatest ... HITMAN. Love how when Trips first started getting a main event heel push he went through this phase where he wore Steiner-like chain-mesh around his torso when he went to the ring, along with having generic theme music.

He was truly a lost soul :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The fact he was shagging Chyna all those years shows me that he was a lost soul long before 99 .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm starting to think that Trips is more of the submissive type in the bedroom , due to his choices of both Chyna and Stephanie as lovers.

WAIT.... Why am I talking about Triple H's sex life ? Is this what we have come to in this thread ? :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm starting to think that Trips is more of the submissive type in the bedroom , due to his choices of both Chyna and Stephanie as lovers.
> 
> WAIT.... Why am I talking about Triple H's sex life ? Is this what we have come to in this thread ? :lol


Its more interesting than his wrestling career 8*D.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Thoughts on HBK/Orton Survivor Series 2007? It's one of my favourite matches, I'd say.


KingOfKings said:


> I'm starting to think that Trips is more of the submissive type in the bedroom , due to his choices of both Chyna and Stephanie as lovers.
> 
> WAIT.... Why am I talking about Triple H's sex life ? Is this what we have come to in this thread ? :lol


...

I mean I know I haven't posted here in a while, but damn.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There has to be a joke somewhere correlating HHH's sex life & his wrestling career. Does he insist about constantly staying on top? Does he end with a satisfactory finish? Does he try to last as long as he does wrestling like a modern age Flair? Is his dialogue as captivating as 'THIS ISN'T UFC'?

That being said I'll layout the general appropriate respone to a HHH sex discussion:

"KILL IT. KILL IT WITH FIRE!~"


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm starting to think that Trips is more of the submissive type in the bedroom , due to his choices of both Chyna and Stephanie as lovers.
> 
> WAIT.... Why am I talking about Triple H's sex life ? Is this what we have come to in this thread ? :lol


TBH, both Chyna and Steph seem like the type that like to peg guys.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Oh man this thread took a turn. :side:

As for HBK/Orton from SS '07, I've got it at ****1/2 and I absolutely love it.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Okay, before anybody starts reading this, I COMMAND YOU to listen to this music in the background.






Done that? GOOD. Okay, now it's time for the...

*1988 - 1999 ROYAL RUMBLE SNOWFLAKE RUNDOWN BONANZA FUN TIME*

*1988* - ** - Mostly pointless. Not many big names and only 20 guys. Hacksaw Jim Duggan wins!
*1989* - *** - Moved up to 30 participants. Hogan gets eliminated fairly then eliminates Bossman because he's a SORE LOSER CUNT. Last two men are Big John Studd and Ted Dibiase. Studd almost kills Ted by dropping him on the turnbuckle. Big John Studd wins!
*1990* - ***1/2 - Opening salvo reeks of big names (Dibiase, Piper, Roberts and Savage). Dibiase is the iron man lasting 51 minutes or so. Hulk Hogan wins!
*1991* - **1/2 - Bit of a dull affair compared to 1990. Greg Valentine and Rick Martel are the iron men, lasting 45 and 51 minutes respectively. Luke The Bushwhacker elimination is HILARIOUS. Hulk Hogan wins again!
*1992* - ***** - THE DADDY! So many stars! Ric Flair pulls off monumental performance lasting over an hour. Hogan gets eliminated fairly and acts like a dick AGAIN. He's supposed to be the ultimate face? Ric Flair wins! GREATEST RUMBLE OF ALL TIME.
*1993* - *** - For some reason I really enjoyed this RR, even though it looked horrendous on paper. AMAZING Backlund performance and story, the crowd was going nuts after he eliminated Martel at the hour mark. Giant Gonzalez debuts! Yokozuna wins!
*1994* - ***1/2 - Intervals down to 90 seconds instead of two minutes. This match happened straight after the UT 'death' angle so the crowd are still dumbfounded. Diesel eliminates nearly everybody in the ring. Rick Steiner looked lazy as hell in this. Bret Hart and Lex Luger win!
*1995* - *1/2 - Intervals down once again to 60 seconds. This was _horrendous_. HBK and Bulldog carry the entire match, and the match is 90% jobbers. Decent finish, even if you could spot it a mile off. Shawn Michaels wins!
*1996* - ***1/2 - Intervals back to two minutes thank GOD. Jake Roberts makes his return in this one and VADER debuts, looking like a fucking beast. HBK eliminates Vader and Yokozuna simultaneously which is BULLSHIT. HHH is the iron man lasting around 50 minutes or so. Shawn Michaels wins!
*1997* - ***1/2 - Intervals back to 90 seconds. FUCK SAKE sort it out. Steve Austin is THE MAN in this one. Lots of Mexican AAA 'talent' in this one. Mil Mascaras manages to eliminate himself the silly old cunt. Terry Funk is in this. Austin is the iron man, and is eliminated by Bret Hart even though the refs didn't see so Austin throws Hart out and Hart cries and AUSTIN WINS!
*1998* - **1/2 - Back to two minutes. I DARE the WWF to stay consistent with their times. This one is a no-brainer in terms of who was going to win. Lots of guys with iron man performances and this Rumble just drags. Foley pulls off a master performance entering as Cactus, Mankind and Dude Love. Steve Austin wins!
*1999* - ***1/4 - Back to 90 seconds...eurgh. Austin and McMahon start. Austin gets attacked and is out for the whole match. Mabel is the sacrificial whale for the new Ministry Of Darkness. Decent ending, and McMahon is on commentary for the second half. Rock distracts Austin and McMahon wins!

May do 2000-2012 later but I need to actually watch most of them again.

:sandow2 YOU'RE WELCOME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Boooo, 1991 RR is awesome. Wrote about it last night on my blog. Just posted my thoughts on the 1992 RR event .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol @ this thread now. HHH's sex life is something to be jealous about. Lucky motherfucker gets on top of the business by marrying Steph and now he's doing her every day and probably gets it in from the backside too. :no:

Also huge :lmao @ the talk of Taker tapping out in that Angle match.



greendayedgehead said:


> Thoughts on HBK/Orton Survivor Series 2007? It's one of my favourite matches, I'd say.


★★★★½


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

1991 to me was just boring. The best Rumbles I feel are split up into different parts. 1991 was just all congealed into one long drawn out contest with no real stand out moments. Not a bad match at all, but just lacked that something. At least it had two minute intervals.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao the direction of this thread. 

About to stick in Ricky Steamboat documentary. Good times.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I actually ordered the Royal Rumble 1991/1992 (Tagged Classics) DVD today, havnt watched an old Rumble in many a year, dont remember much from most pre '95 lol!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Anyone up for a best of from [Insert PPV name] that excludes the big four?

Randomly taking _Vengeance_;
- The Rock vs Kurt Angle vs Undertaker
- Batista vs Triple H
- Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar vs Big Show
- Chris Benoit vs Triple H
- The Rock vs Chris Jericho
- Randy Orton vs Edge
- Undertaker vs John Cena
- Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit
- John Cena vs Christian vs Chris Jericho
- Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Any really good WWE TV matches last week? I'm planning on making a proper list of this year's best stuff.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Anyone up for a best of from [Insert PPV name] that excludes the big four?
> 
> Randomly taking _Vengeance_;
> - The Rock vs Kurt Angle vs Undertaker
> ...


I'm interested. I still gotta finish the Taker/Batista series but I'll grab No Mercy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> I still gotta finish the Taker/Batista series


(Y) Cool, ill be interested in reading your thoughts on this, im hoping to watch that series myself soon, think ive only seen the WM match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd do a PPV write-up if I wasn't still stuck on HBK/Taker. Fuck, I've been mailing it in lately. 

Gotta say I'm pretty excited for Raw tonight.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'd do a PPV write-up if I wasn't still stuck on HBK/Taker. Fuck, I've been mailing it in lately.


All will be forgiven if your joint venture with i$e results in some really great musical discoveries coming my way 

I'd watch Raw, but it would screw up my sleeping pattern. May watch the opening segment and see if it sets up anything potentially interesting.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's the plan. ANYTHING FOR YOU, WOOLCOCK.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> That's the plan. ANYTHING FOR YOU, WOOLCOCK.


<3 TLK

i$e hasn't let me down yet and anyone with a Lennon avy obviously knows their stuff.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I started watching Unforgiven 2004 yesterday. I came to the conclusion that Tyson Tomko/Steven Richards may be the worst PPV match ever. It got to much time with a terrible reason fire it even occurring. Not to mention the match was just pretty much Tomko pulling on his face for 6:25.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I forgot about that abomination. The crowd shat all over it, too. Wow, that was bad. It was impromptu, wasn't it?

edit @ WOOLCOCK - yeah, a major reason i$e and I became buds was our common musical interests. He introduced me to some gems and vice versa. TWO MAN MUSIC POWERTRIP.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*The Shield vs. Team Feed Me Hell No - ****1/2*

Chaos. Recklessness. Destruction. All out carnage. I loved it. Fantastic showing for The Shield. Rollins and Ambrose were the stars here and we got a few flashes of brilliance from Reigns too. The guy is a powerhouse. I love that they won and I love that we don't get to see them in matches all the time because I sure as hell can't wait to see them in action again. The spots were so smart. That double suplex off the table was awesome. The Rollins spot at the end was some Jeff Hardy level stuff. I imagine when he turns face, Rollins will fill that gap nicely. Loved everything about this. Ryback was great too along with Bryan. Hell they all were. This thing definitely lived up to the hype. Brilliant match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm interested. I still gotta finish the Taker/Batista series but I'll grab No Mercy.


It's not exactly some kind of write-up, though. Just a discussion of the best matches from whatever PPV you choose.



Dark Church said:


> I started watching Unforgiven 2004 yesterday. I came to the conclusion that Tyson Tomko/Steven Richards may be the worst PPV match ever. It got to much time with a terrible reason fire it even occurring. Not to mention the match was just pretty much Tomko pulling on his face for 6:25.


Can't disagree with that at all. It's just complete garbage. Unforgiven is probably the only non-Smackdown PPV that was shit. Other than Orton/Hunter, everything else was subpar or terrible. (Benoit goes from main eventing SummerSlam as champion to opening the next PPV in a tag match fpalm)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really can't get enough of that TLC. Especially since I was so damn worried it was going to fail. Everything was so smart though. No climbing ladders for the sake of it/etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> I also watched that today on WWE Classics. Pretty entertaining episode the night after Rock Bottom.
> 
> Heard people talking about dead crowd reactions and Undertaker vs. Ken Shamrock from Backlash '99 (also on WWE Classics right now) had for the most part a very dead crowd and when they did make noise it was 'Boring' chants and 'End This Match' lol. You can tell Taker tried to put a good wrestling match together with Shamrock telling the story of Shamrock's submission attacks as a challenge for Taker throughout the match. Ken Shamrock although he brought a lot of intensity and aggression with his persona and in his matched to came off to me kind of looking lost in the ring as far as directing the pacing of his matches/timing of moves. I noticed it even in the Canadian Stampede tag which is reasonable because he was relatively new at that time and this match was a couple years later. He needed a lot of direction. I liked a few of the submission counters and wrestling transitions they put together but the crowd just couldn't give a fuck about what they were doing. It was kind of difficult to watch, tbh.


Amen. It wasn't so much Shamrock being lost for me or the ultra dead crowd that totally ruined the match for me. It was how they tried to make it an MMA bout and how NOBODY in cared to see that. Poor, poor booking decision. A mixed martial arts style match in the thick of the Attitude Era? I know something such as the Lion's Den with Shamrock vs Owen could be an exception, but this match ended up being a total bust. One of the most disappointing Undertaker matches for me. It still crushes me knowing it ended up being nothing worth seeing. Nothing worth seeing again for that matter.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> edit @ WOOLCOCK - yeah, a major reason i$e and I became buds was our common musical interests. He introduced me to some gems and vice versa. TWO MAN MUSIC POWERTRIP.


I gather you consider yourself the HHH of that Powertrip 8*D even though he's the inferior member..


TLC 6 man was a really unique and layed out match. Didn't think the storytelling was the best we saw over the course of year compared to Lesnar/Cena, Punk/Henry or Sheamus/Show, but the overall booking and presentation of the Shield may have been the best handled all year. Loved how Ambrose brought the authentic violence to a WWE style hardcore match. The Chokeslam through the chair was a really nasty spot and I loved little things like him launching a chair right at Ryback's back near the end. They built Bryan up superbly as the resilient babyface outnumbered but fighting to the very end and contrary to what a few were saying live, they booked Ryback exceptionally well in the match. He was the difference maker whenever he was in the ring and the theme of the match revolved around The Shield managing to isolate his periods of dominance and contain his threat.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, it felt more like an old school brawl and not your typical contrived spotfest that we've come to love/hate when it comes to TLC matches. Everything about it exceeded my expectations, and I honestly haven't been that glued to a match in a long time. It's hard to explain, but everything about it - the hot crowd, the mystique of debuting trio nobody really knows much about (kayfabe-wise), the relentless chaos, spots we haven't really seen before (BLACKOUT ONTO A FUCKING CHAIR), etc. - made it really enjoyable. Like Starbuck said, I like that they don't wrestle all the time. Really makes me want to see them in action again. For once the WWE is actually handling a young group of talent really well. Hopefully they don't blow it.

edit that's a given, WOOLCOCK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Can't disagree with that at all. It's just complete garbage. Unforgiven is probably the only non-Smackdown PPV that was shit. Other than Orton/Hunter, everything else was subpar or terrible. (Benoit goes from main eventing SummerSlam as champion to opening the next PPV in a tag match fpalm)


I'd say Benoit's tag destroys the crap Orton/HHH match. I'm pretty big on the tag, tbhayley.

Already shared my thoughts on the TLC 6 man enough. It's on par with what has been dropped already. Pure brilliant chaos. Ryback tackling Reigns into the stage set up might be my favorite spot only b/c it captured the mayhem of the match. Always be a sucker for the Blackout on the chair. It's FAR too brutal/amazing to not mark for.

The 6 man saved that PPV too. It's such a one match show when you look at it. Cesaro's squash was the match I enjoyed the most after the 6 man only b/c I <3 Cesaro :lol


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That the tag w/Regal vs Batista & Flair? If so I watched it last year and came out of it a really big fan. Really simple and well structured match with everyone putting in a good shift. Flair was great as the old man eating a beating and Batista was being booked very well as the enforcer/muscle on the way to stardom.

The Evolution vs Benoit/Jericho/Benjamin/Tajiri/Edge combination tags over RAW 2004 are all really special. Personal favourite has to be the 6 man elimination tag the night after Bad Blood 2004, with Benoit/Edge/Jericho vs Batista/Flair/Orton. Wonderful match with some great build to Orton/Benoit and especially how Benoit manages to escape the RKO which is built up as a match ender through the eliminations of Jericho & Edge.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finally about to watch Punk/Cena NOC now. 4 months later lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the one, WOOLCOCK. Regal & Benoit on a team vs FLAIR & a well booked Batista going 15 minutes. Yep, it was quality. MOTN on that event without a doubt.

2004 was the year of the grand Evolution tags. It was the year they were in full force - till Orton got axed in mid to late August - and it REALLY captured the essence of the Four Horseman the best during their tenure.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I still haven't seen it either. Only a clip of the finish.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> I'd say Benoit's tag destroys the crap Orton/HHH match. I'm pretty big on the tag, tbhayley.
> 
> Already shared my thoughts on the TLC 6 man enough. It's on par with what has been dropped already. Pure brilliant chaos. Ryback tackling Reigns into the stage set up might be my favorite spot only b/c it captured the mayhem of the match. Always be a sucker for the Blackout on the chair. It's FAR too brutal/amazing to not mark for.
> 
> The 6 man saved that PPV too. It's such a one match show when you look at it. Cesaro's squash was the match I enjoyed the most after the 6 man only b/c I <3 Cesaro :lol


You didn't like the Cena/DOLPH ladder match or Show owning Sheamus with the OVERSIZED CHAIR~!?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's on Dailymotion. I won't watch it till I finish my Punk vs Cena series stuff :lmao

(tbhayley I've been FAR too busy/out of the house to do it this week...)

EDIT ~ Cena vs Dolph went WAY too long. It was solid at best. Sheamus vs Show was nothing special except for the comical gigantic chair. I legit liked their Lumberjack match from the Christmas Eve RAW more.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Finally about to watch Punk/Cena NOC now. 4 months later lol.


Can't see you disliking it. Its a really great take and evolution of the MITB encounter with Punk being in the reverse position from a year ago as the champion trying to overcome Cena. There's a bit of contention with the finishing stretch, but personally I thought they timed and paced the nearfalls very well with only one exception. Not as good as MITB, but the usual Punk/Cena chemistry shines again.

I'd have Lesnar/Cena, Punk/Bryan, Sheamus/Show & Bryan/Sheamus definitely ahead of it. I'd also probably have Ambrose/Regal II from personal preference, but any other match would require serious consideration. Basically its great stuff.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

whats everyone think of the following matches?

Benoit vs Jericho Ladder-Royal Rumble 2001
Angle vs HBK-Vengeance 2005
Rey vs Psicosis-Bash At Beach 1996
Edge vs Taker-Summerslam 2008 cell


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

One star for Layla/Eve?

What the flretruck?

I have it at 3 stars match. Cause it's not a bad match. It's a pretty standard match. How can you call a match that had Eve working and playing her character to perfection in the match and great storytelling a bad match?

Cena/Punk I have at 4 stars. I forgot how HUGE the build was to that match.

As for the Evolution tags, the one against HBK/Benjamin/Foley/Benoit kick's ass!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I'd say Benoit's tag destroys the crap Orton/HHH match. I'm pretty big on the tag, tbhayley.


I was just disappointed with how Benoit was treated after his title reign and feel he was above being in a throwaway match like that. It was decent but I really enjoyed Orton/HHH save for Orton losing.



WOOLCOCK said:


> That the tag w/Regal vs Batista & Flair? If so I watched it last year and came out of it a really big fan. Really simple and well structured match with everyone putting in a good shift. Flair was great as the old man eating a beating and Batista was being booked very well as the enforcer/muscle on the way to stardom.
> 
> The Evolution vs Benoit/Jericho/Benjamin/Tajiri/Edge combination tags over RAW 2004 are all really special. Personal favourite has to be the 6 man elimination tag the night after Bad Blood 2004, with Benoit/Edge/Jericho vs Batista/Flair/Orton. Wonderful match with some great build to Orton/Benoit and especially how Benoit manages to escape the RKO which is built up as a match ender through the eliminations of Jericho & Edge.


Don't forget Evolution vs Benoit/Foley/Shelton/HBK after WM20. Was also great.

This makes me wanna rewatch the entire Raw that year since there were so many awesome TV stuff.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Ziggler/Cena was poor . Didn't like the flow of that match.

I always think the TLC match should main event the TLC PPV as after we had the awesome brutal TLC match we then have a chairs match :lol seems backwards imo.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Eve v Layla from NoC (Y)



tboneangle said:


> whats everyone think of the following matches?
> 
> Benoit vs Jericho Ladder-Royal Rumble 2001
> Angle vs HBK-Vengeance 2005
> ...


Benoit/Jericho is the best ladder match in company history and a classic. Thought Edge/Taker HiaC was great but would have to watch it again to see if it holds up.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I ended up watching that 6 man TLC match like 6 or 7 times in the week that I had the PPV, I enjoyed it as much as I did on the 1st watch as I did the last. Very few matches have that effect on you. My MOTY.



Choke2Death said:


> Anyone up for a best of from [Insert PPV name] that excludes the big four?
> 
> Randomly taking _Vengeance_;
> - The Rock vs Kurt Angle vs Undertaker
> ...


RVD vs Edge from Vengeance 2006 is a pretty decent match, not sure it's one of the best in Vengeance PPV history, but it's pretty good. 



Starbuck said:


> Finally about to watch Punk/Cena NOC now. 4 months later lol.


A very good match, as with most Punk/Cena encounters.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

tboneangle said:


> whats everyone think of the following matches?
> 
> Benoit vs Jericho Ladder-Royal Rumble 2001
> Angle vs HBK-Vengeance 2005
> ...


Have to relive the lucha match. More than certain I love it. Others:

Ladder - *****
Vengeance - ****1/4
HIAC - ****1/2



sharkboy22 said:


> One star for Layla/Eve?
> 
> What the flretruck?
> 
> I have it at 3 stars match. Cause it's not a bad match. It's a pretty standard match. How can you call a match that had Eve working and playing her character to perfection in the match and great storytelling a bad match?


My guess is b/c the divas match was trash like how every other match involving them usually is.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Has Sheamus/Show IV happened yet? I swear I saw spoilers for that somewhere.

Punk/Ryback TLC and THE ROCK on Raw tonight.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> My guess is b/c the divas match was trash like how every other match involving them usually is.


It definitely wasn't.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

They had a Lumberjack match on the New Years' Eve edition of Raw. Not seen it but people seemed to like it a bunch.

Agreed on Benoit/Jericho being the best singles ladder match of the decade, though Sheamus/Morrison isn't far behind for how creative and unique the match was. Rey/Psicosis is a really great match, watched it last year for the WCW poll and it made my list. They have great chemistry and Psicosis bumps like an absolute freak. Think I preferred Liger/Rey from Starrcade '96 more though. Liger comes prepared as an abusive bully and works a lot more violent which is definitely a step up from standard Juniors Liger. Tajiri/Psicosis from ECW 8/25/00 is also really tremendous as far as Psicosis singles matches in America go. More of a Tajiri showcase truth be told, but its damn good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

tboneangle said:


> whats everyone think of the following matches?
> 
> Benoit vs Jericho Ladder-Royal Rumble 2001
> Angle vs HBK-Vengeance 2005
> ...


RR - ★★★★½
VEN - ★★★¾
BATB - N/A
SS - ★★★★



Nostalgia said:


> RVD vs Edge from Vengeance 2006 is a pretty decent match, not sure it's one of the best in Vengeance PPV history, but it's pretty good.


That's a very good match as is Randy Orton/Kurt Angle from that event. Definitely interchangeable with one or two of the lesser matches on my top 10.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> It definitely wasn't.


I found it to be crap and another waste of my time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> I found it to be crap and another waste of my time.


Best divas match I've seen in ages.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Benoit vs Jericho Ladder-Royal Rumble 2001- ****1/2

Angle vs HBK-Vengeance 2005- ****1/4

Edge vs Taker-Summerslam 2008 cell- ****1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Can't see you disliking it. Its a really great take and evolution of the MITB encounter with Punk being in the reverse position from a year ago as the champion trying to overcome Cena. There's a bit of contention with the finishing stretch, but personally I thought they timed and paced the nearfalls very well with only one exception. Not as good as MITB, but the usual Punk/Cena chemistry shines again.
> 
> I'd have Lesnar/Cena, Punk/Bryan, Sheamus/Show & Bryan/Sheamus definitely ahead of it. I'd also probably have Ambrose/Regal II from personal preference, but any other match would require serious consideration. Basically its great stuff.


*John Cena vs. CM Punk(c) - Night of Champions 2012*

Meh I'm not with you on this one at all lol. Everything was going great up until the finishing stretch. It actually reminded me of the HHH/Cena match from NOC 08 where Trips had a counter for most of Cena's moves and they were checkmating each other all the way through. Unlike that match however, the ending to this was contrived beyond belief and started to annoy me. It made me roll my eyes if I'm being honest. Finisher, kickout, finisher, kickout, finisher, kickout. That's literally what it was. Usually I don't mind that, if it fits with the story, but this felt contrived as hell to me this time. I knew they were going to kickout. What ever happened to finishers actually _finishing _matches, huh? All they did here was undermine their own moves. MITB had those intangibles surrounding it so the finisher kickouts truly felt like something special. These ones though, way too forced imo. Cena kicked out of 2 GTS and a Rock Bottom back to back and this is just a regular wrestling match. Then there was the random back suplex to end the match because Cena goes for that move all the time. There was some great stuff in there though and Punk's gear was pretty awesome. I loved a lot of the counters. That's one thing Punk/Cena excel at imo. Their counters to the others moves are always fun to watch. 

I'd go ****** for this. Like I said before, had the finishing stretch not been so retarded, this could have kicked into another gear. Unfortunately, it didn't. Not for me anyways.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

ok more matches.

Bret vs Owen cage
Bret vs Austin Survivor Series 1996
Shawn vs Foley mind games


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree vis a vis the finish. There are better ways to end a match and whilst I liked them trying to be creative with the finish, it was executed pretty badly and after everything before it felt like a very tame way to end the match. I didn't mind the kickouts tbh. It wasn't as good as MITB in terms of suspense, but tbh its a staple of WWE Main Events and I thought for the most part they sold the work and finishing stretch quite well. The counters helped to increase the drama as well. Cena popping up after one move to hit the surprise AA was really bad though, that I won't deny.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

tboneangle said:


> ok more matches.
> 
> Bret vs Owen cage
> Bret vs Austin Survivor Series 1996
> Shawn vs Foley mind games


Probably all in the ****3/4 range, though I know Bret/Owen is widely regarded as the full five.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I wasn't to fond of the ending to Punk/Cena at NOC, but you knew then that the feud was going to continue, but then Cena got injured and Punk/Cena at HIAC didn't happen and instead it became Punk/Ryback, and they then threw Cena back in the feud at Survivor Series as almost filler just to lose again. When I think about it now, Cena's lost quite a bit last year on PPV's, but that doesn't stop him from being superstar of the year lol. :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My 2012 MOTY list is starting to take shape. Yes I'm still working on it. Have a good 5 or 6 matches still to go though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Curious to know how Punk/Cena HIAC would've been had it taken place.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think it would have been great. They ought to have a gimmick match. Maybe one day down the line though. I'm burnt out on them at this stage. Maybe that's why the ending to the match annoyed me so much.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Probably all in the ****3/4 range, though I know Bret/Owen is widely regarded as the full five.


i always flip and flop pn the bret owen and hbk foley matches. the dq ending kinda ruins the mind games match but its the best 4 3/4 star match ever imo besides Flai vs Steamboat at Clash.That match i love so much but the foot ending pisses me off.its like we just watched 55 minutes and the finish is controversial?

also Bret vs owen,i love it,no blood sucks tho,and it feels like something is lacking at times.

BTW anyone what Bret Hart matches do u have at the full *****?

i have

Bret davey
bret owen wm
bret shawn iron man
bret austin wm
hart foundation vs team austin canadian stampede
bret vs benoit owen tribute


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Haven't seen enough Bret to be qualified for the discussion but I have the match with Austin from WM13 at ★★★★★ and the Benoit match (Owen tribute) at ★★★★½.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^^^^^^^ Is that an Angle tattoo on your arm?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Canadian Stampede = 

Only Bret match for me that's 5 is the Austin Mania match. Would be willing to watch some of the others in contention (vs Austin S. Series, vs Owen x2, Canadian Stampede, etc) to see if they hold up, though.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^ Is that an Angle tattoo on your arm?


yes it is. and thats Angle doing the same face right next to it. that pic was taken from mr andersons phone


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Canadian Stampede =
> 
> Only Bret match for me that's 5 is the Austin Mania match. Would be willing to watch some of the others in contention (vs Austin S. Series, vs Owen x2, Canadian Stampede, etc) to see if they hold up, though.


the owen match from mania is still the best opener of all time imo


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Curious to know how Punk/Cena HIAC would've been had it taken place.


It would of been better than Punk/Ryback from a match quality standpoint, but I didn't mind Punk/Ryback from HIAC honestly. I saw many people shitting on that match, probably just because of Ryback, but I thought the match was alright and it told a good story.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ryback/Punk would have been a really great studio match in the territories, or even a really great RAW main event that had been built over a couple of weeks. They worked the story of Punk being a stooge and trying to last long enough through Ryback's power offence to find a counter and successfully managed to make Punk look resourceful and smart without forcing Ryback to have to sell too much. That being said despite the Cell working to keep Punk locked and within striking distance of the monster, a 10 minute HIAC match really undermines the concept after all that has preceeded it. I understand they were booked into a corner with Cena's injury, but this is where the gimmick PPVs really work against them (on top of the usual critiques). Punk/Ryback in a normal 1 on 1 match would have been a fine angle driven match, even if I highly doubt they could ever have a truly great match. The problem was the HIAC gimmick meant it had to be a Cell match albeit with minimal build and it being their first singles match, the story they were going for was just a complete opposite of what the HIAC match should be about.

Fine angle/story that otherwise would have been a serviceable match, but badly restricted by the HIAC gimmick and inability for one of them to go over the other in decisive fashion.


----------



## aj_lee_of_wwe_fan (Jan 7, 2013)

There have being many loves of the wwe female wrestler April Jeanette Mendez ring name....
AJ LEE OR AS SOME MIGHT CALL HER AJ DIVA of wwe She served as the General Manager of Raw From 23 July 2012 to 22 October 2012, where she resigned.....SO ON BLAH BLAH BLAH :0) LOL 

ANYWAY NOW.......

Let's Touche on aj lee dating in the work place at the wwe subject. which was the reason why ,
she was forced to resign from 
G.M of Raw according to TMZ now moving on with no further due......

In the many loves of aj wwe and the lusts she had for many wrestlers at her work place which is the wwe she Always being drawn mostly to one particular guy which is the golden haired wrestler with a body of a
Roman Warrior ....SPECIALLY AFTER JOHN CENA DUMP PRANK ON THE NEW YEAR 

LOL.. MOVING ON.

Mr Dolph Diggler OR as some might call him money in the bank 

AND FINALLY HERE IT COMES WHAT YOU HAVE BEING WAITING FOR 
THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION IS.........

IS AJ LEE THE WWE FEMALE WRESTLER THE X G.M OF RAW FELL IN LOVE WITH MR DOLPH DIGLLER IN THE REAL LIFE ? YOU DECIDE PLEASE VOTE HERE >>>>> AJ LEE DATING


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Ryback TLC tonight could be fun.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

@WOOLCOCK I thought the cell worked because after weeks of Punk running from encounters with Ryback, he would trapped in a match with Ryback in a cell with no escape. They could of done a regular one-on-one match like you said, but Punk could of just run from that match like his other encounters. And I guess if they did it like that, with Punk escaping from his first match from Ryback, in might of made the build better, but on the other hand, another thing I liked about the Punk/Ryback feud was the mystique behind it. Their first encounter trapped inside a cell with Punk's title reign against Ryback's streak, that really drew me in to the feud, watching it live with my brother at the time, we were really on the edge of our seats, Punk retaining the title wasn't as certain as in some of his other feuds, and I enjoyed the match more than most did.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ehh I do see that argument, and it did feel like a far less violent take on Taker/HBK in the original HIAC with the coward running from the unstoppable monster. That being said I just think the way they worked the match, i.e a typical first match with some tentative exchanges and establising the unfamiliarity just lacked the violence and necessity of a Cell match. I think it would have potentially worked as a better match down the line, with Ryback more established than he was at the time. I guess to me it struck me more like the Henry/Bryan series from November last year on Smackdown which culminated in the Cage Match. It felt like a mini series and something that could build to something far greater (really wish they'd booked Bryan/Henry at Mania) and that was the same with Ryback/Punk. Fine match on its own, could have been a great angle driven match in between Punk's feud with Cena, but due to the length and the booking restraints it could never be anything more than a tease/preview of a longer match between them and for me that really made the Cell useless outside of the theme that Punk couldn't escape Ryback.

If they'd built the feud longer and given them more time to work a greater story and build convincing nearfalls then I'd agree with you. But you could tell from the pacing it felt more like a simpler match than a big title match and they seemed to be working something that would start a feud, rather than end it. I dunno how to explain it better, but it felt like one of those really interesting TV/studio matches where you're excited to see the cowardly champion try and escape a behemoth whose looked unstoppable, but a 10 minute match never really gave them the frame to work as good a story and utilise the Cell as they could have.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk V Ryback TLC ***1/2

Great tv match.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I give it ***1/2 as well. Really good match there. Punk's selling was insanely good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd throw **** 3/4* at it. Great fucking match, and Ryback's best singles match by a mile at this point. Was on HIAC 12 standards until all the crazy shit started going down.... LOL @ the Goldberg chants. The first RAW of the year almost ALWAYS delivers a pretty damn good match and this is no exception. EXTREMELY early candidate for TV MOTY already from Punk. Surprised ? NAH NOT REALLY 

DAT SELLING FROM DAT WWE CHAMPION. unk2


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

So fucking :mark: for this Punk/Rock promo tonight.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd give it a ***3/4. Really enjoyable match between the two, better than their HIAC match that I was discussing earlier. Some good unique spots, great back-and-forth action, Punk looking surprising strong against Ryback, Punk's selling was great as already highlighted, predictable ending but still didn't really take away from the match for me, Punk was 100% winning, now we can move onto Punk/Rock.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

"Your arms are just too short to box with God."

Amazing promo. Why the fuck is this not the Wrestlemania main event? It doesn't get much better than that promo.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Looks like Punk/Ryback might be the first match on my 2013 list. Was Cena/Ziggler good?


----------



## Maizeandbluekid (Apr 2, 2012)

That last segment was terrific. Really gets me more pumped up for Royal Rumble.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

COOKIE PUSS.

That's literally all I need to say. You can call me a Rock hater or a Punk mark, who cares. I'll reiterate the previous statement.

COOKIE PUSS.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

And yeah the Punk/Rock segment was good. Only part of the show I caught. Thought Punk's initial promo before Rock came out went on a bit too long but I guess that was the point.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I know I may get a lot of flack for saying it, or I'll just be called a blind Punk mark. But I don't care. Both men were great, but CM Punk was on a whole other level. I don't think there's even any doubt.

I mean ffs, cookie puss? But that's besides the point. They made their point clear that the two are complete opposites. Promo one down, and so far they mesh extremely well together.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Looks like Punk/Ryback might be the first match on my 2013 list. Was Cena/Ziggler good?


It was decent I guess, but the ending put a damper on things for me personally. Biggest display of super Cena I've seen in a while. He kicks out of Ziggler's first finisher the Zig-Zag, then he kicks out of Ziggler's Super Kick finisher (that he's been using lately) and then he kicked out of Big E's finisher when he came down and interfered, three finishers, only for Cena to get up and hit *one* finisher on Ziggler for the win. Bullshit, but typical Cena booking. Ziggler hasn't beat in Cena in a regular singles match before, but yet has lost in many to Cena, and they couldn't even let Ziggler get one win over him, not even a dirty win. I thought with AJ and Big E at ringside then maybe it could happen, but then when they got ejected I knew Ziggler was going to lose...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> It was decent I guess, but the ending put a damper on things for me personally. Biggest display of super Cena I've seen in a while. He kicks out of Ziggler's first finisher the Zig-Zag, then he kicks out of Ziggler's Super Kick finisher (that he's been using lately) and then he kicked out of Big E's finisher when he came down and interfered, three finishers, only for Cena to get up and hit *one* finisher on Ziggler for the win. Bullshit, but typical Cena booking. Ziggler hasn't beat in Cena in a regular singles match before, but yet has lost in many to Cena, and they couldn't even let Ziggler get one win over him, not even a dirty win. I thought with AJ and Big E at ringside then maybe it could happen, but then when they got ejected I knew Ziggler was going to lose...


I'll probably check it out along with Punk/Ryback. Don't think any of Ziggler's finishers are especially credible so I might not find the Super Cena stuff disgusting if the kickouts are spaced out and well timed.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I'll probably check it out along with Punk/Ryback. Don't think any of Ziggler's finishers are especially credible so I might not find the Super Cena stuff disgusting if the kickouts are spaced out and well timed.


You should definitely check out Punk/Ryback, great TV match right there. Ziggler's recently been establishing the Super Kick as a credible finisher, he beat Orton clean with it at Survivor Series, he took out Cena at TLC with it, but they made it look bad tonight by having it not beat Cena even after multiple finishers. The finishers aren't really that spaced out either. Becomes a bit of a finisher fest at the end, but it's still a match worth checking out.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> You should definitely check out Punk/Ryback, great TV match right there. Ziggler's recently been establishing the Super Kick as a credible finisher, he beat Orton clean with it at Survivor Series, he took out Cena at TLC with it, but they made it look bad tonight by having it not beat Cena even after multiple finishers. The finishers aren't really that spaced out either. Becomes a bit of a finisher fest at the end, but it's still a match worth checking out.


I thought Orton kicked out of the superkick at Night of Champions. Maybe I'm remembering wrong. Ziggler might have missed the kick.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

This Punk/Rock feud is already off to a great start and just may end up being better than Rock/Cena imo. Rock was good/intense (minus COOKIE PUSS even if the crowd ate it up) but Punk was completely brilliant I thought.


----------



## IJ (Oct 29, 2010)

*I am absolutely loving the Randy Orton DVD.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Part of me thinks CM Punk watched tape of last years Rock/Cena feud (the same way a football player would watch game film to get ready for the next game) and made a conscious decision not to laugh and smirk after every Rock insult like Cena did last year. Punk standing still with a stern, serious look on his face as Rock went off on him was brilliant. And great job by the production crew to make sure they got a few different shots of Punk just standing there in the same spot the entire time with the same look on his face.

This is how you have a feud. Just little things like that. I'm pumped.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Oh really? Never saw Ziggler/Orton from Survivor Series. Didn't they wrestle at another PPV too? TLC maybe? I seem to remember someone kicking out of Ziggler's superkick, thought it was Orton. Maybe Ziggler missed the kick.


It was a traditional Survivor Series match, in which it came down to Orton and Ziggler and Ziggler beat Orton cleanly to give his team the victory.

Here's the match. Watch from around 30:00 for the finish:







Ziggler properly debuted the Super Kick here as a finisher (he used the super kick on occasions before this, but not really as a finish to a match).

It was Ziggler vs Cena at TLC in a ladder match. After AJ pushed Cena off the ladder and turned on him, Ziggler dropped him with the Super Kick and climbed the ladder to retain his MITB briefcase to win. 

That match is here. Around 25:40 for the finish:






Hope this helps. 

Edit: Orton might of kicked out of the Super Kick at NOC, can't really remember, but as I say, Ziggler's Super kick became established at Survivor Series as a finisher for Ziggler after he beat Orton clean with it, before then it was just a occasional move of his that didn't win matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah I got confused. I remember Ziggler going for the kick against Orton at NoC and Orton won that match but I guess Ziggler missed. Bad memory.

Well that's shit then. Way too protect the guy's new finisher.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

COOKIE PUSS.

unk2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Two fantastic TV matches on tonight's Raw. I'm not sure why Cena/Ziggler is getting so much hate, it was a fun match with some controversy. Thought Ziggler was going to pick up the victory. ***1/2

Punk/Ryback delivered. Punk put on a selling clinic. Unique weapon spots, awesome ending (marked out even though it was somewhat predictable), hot crowd, and Heyman's epic acting skills make this a ***3/4 on first watch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena/Ziggler was a pretty good TV match, even if it included the head-scratching "ref gets knocked down and my buddy in the back realizes it and does a run-in and the replacement ref somehow knows to come out but doesn't know to DQ the heel" spot, and Cena quickly dispatching Ziggler after kicking out of three finishers. :StephenA2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching Survivor Series 2007 on DVD now, and I remember a few guys talking about the 2006 DX Survivor Series tag where they bury Mike Knox, stating it to be hilarious (and it was, rightfully so)............. But FUCK this backstage segment with Trips, Kane, Jeff, and Rey is absolute GOLD. Kane brings up KATIE VICK, Jeff brings up Trips putting him in the hospital, and Triple H has the single greatest response for both of them in da HISTORY OF HISTORY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3j2ly_survivor-series-2007-team-triple-h_news#.UOvBJ29ZXjU

Just watch it yourself :lol

DA OPENER is one of the better Miz matches I've ever seen. Granted it features the almighty PHILLIP BROOKS carrying him and JoMo , but for a less than 10 minute opener it was pretty hot. ***** from me. The Divas tag is shit and the Tag Championship is forgettable, while we have the traditional SS match, Orton-HBK, Batista-Taker HIAC, and KHALI-HORNSWOGGLE on tap. 

Two DUDS but two *****+* matches on one card ? HMMM.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I wasn't too high on Punk/Ryback as others but i still really enjoyed the match. Was surprised at how much offense Punk actually got in but the ending was so predictable so that bumps it down. Ryback looked okay coming out of it i suppose but that should be it for title shots for now (sadly i think the Rumble is his) HEYMAN was absolute gold at ringside as always, i don't the man gets the credit he deserves at the moment, just at ringside, he can elevate a match so much.

*****

Ziggles/Cena was a weird one for me, it was good but i really didn't enjoy it for some reason, maybe it was foreseeing all the fuckery Cena was going to overcome but something didn't sit right with me. I'll rewatch at a later date but for now. ***1/2*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

http://m.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=cookie-puss

:lmao :lmao

I GAVE THAT HO A COOKIE PUSS


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk's selling tonight was GOD. A huge problem I find with Ryback is that well... His offense absolutely sucks. I can't stand his finisher in particular, he just looks so damn goofy marching around the ring. He seems to work with Punk really well though... But then again, who doesn't work well with Punk nowadays ? I'm actually excited for a ROCK match, when I could have cared less for Rock-Cena or Rock/Cena vs Miz-Truth. 

Heyman has been awesome before. He made Brock's rookie year look even better than what it actually was. Brock-Hogan was the perfect example... "HE'S HULK HOGAN, BROCK! HE'S DIFFERENT!"

:heyman

COOKIE PUSS.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao GREG

Punk was GOLD. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah Heyman is GOAT-worthy. 

Punk kinda killed Rock tonight.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I agree. He was so serious and I loved it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

COOKIE PUSS.

POPEYE ON CRACK.

#TRENDINGONTWITTER.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that was impressive, and this is coming from someone who hasn't been Punk's biggest fan recently. Rock was pretty bad content-wise, but he definitely did what he does best - pump up the crowd. If nothing else the segment makes me want to see the title match, and that's all you can ask for from a promo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think it's compelling because everybody's happy. The Punk marks get their shoot based promos which they will love to eat up, while the Rock marks get their guy doing what he does best, and that's interacting with the crowd.

One show in and it's already better than the fuckfest that was the horrendous Rock-Cena feud. My only problem is simple ; WHY ARE WE GETTING THIS AT THE RUMBLE AND NOT AT MANIA. JUST HAVE ROCK WIN THE RUMBLE FOR FUCK SAKES. This better not all end up culminating in a Rock-Cena II matchup or I'm going to be pissed. Rock-Brock or bust


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

It was a great promo from BOTH. Rocky did what he does best and Punk did EXACTLY what Cena SHOULD have done last year, no goofy smiles, just a serious promo. Already excited for Punk/Rock from one promo than i was from a whole year's worth of Rock/Cena.

Cooke Puss was just as pathetic as Fruity Pebbles though


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Absolutely loved the promo had me hooked the entire time and the Tyson Kidd mention certainly helped. :side:

:lmao at that definition of COOKIE PUSS

And for the matches:

Punk/Ryback - ***1/2
Cena/Ziggler - ***

The fact that Ziggler didn't win after the superkick killed me inside.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

That Rock/Punk promo blows anything from the Rock V Cena feud out of the water.

Good god fancy that, two wrestlers giving a shit about what one and the other is saying to each other, putting each other over as a threat and showing some intensity out there. CENA I HOPE YOU WERE WATCHING!


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Why isn't everybody talking about John Cena overcoming those odds at the start of the show?

How big was the gulf in quality from Cena's promo ( not ziggler's bit) to what we got later in Rock/Punk. If you ever need an example of why Cena is disliked by men then this was it.

The closing promo was fantastic. Just excellent. Only a few cringe-worthy moments (worked shoot of the production guy telling him to wrap it up, Cole and King's laugh track,COOKIE PUSS , etc.). When it comes to selling a PPV match, and strictly just reminding people WHEN a PPV IS (20 days), I can't think of one better in YEARS. Punk sold Rock's insults SO WELL. No exaggerated, shocked faces, but none of the Cena "wow that wasn't funny let me fake laugh and look into the camera and talk to my Dad" shit. The last line and the Rock Bottom were just so good.

"Your arms are too short to box with God" is a money line. That sort of line deserves to live in wrestling lore like "I need to beat you rock, I need it more than anything you could ever imagine...". I don't care if it's not original, it was that moment when in an argument everyone holds their breath. And while the tattoo stuff was stupid the Rock nailed it to close it out. That's what happens when 2 of the best in the industry ever go at it

I don't even know where they go from here, because that was a money promo.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Just got done with the last '97 RAW, watched all year plus the PPV's. Great, great year for the WWF, had two GOAT-contender matches (Hart/Austin and HBK/Taker) as well as some cool storylines (the beginning of Taker/Kane, Austins rise & the screwjob/DX formation). Yeah it had it's crap, just like any year (Goldust in the last two months, god that was... different). 

Top 10 matches:

1) HBK/Taker HIAC (IYH: Badd Blood) - *****
2) B. Hart/Austin (WM13) - ****3/4
3) HBK/Taker (Ground Zero) - ****1/4
4) Taker/Hart - HBK as special ref (Summerslam) - ****1/4
5) HBK/B. Hart (Survivor Series) - ****
6) O. Hart/Austin (Summerslam) - ****
7) HBK/Austin - KOTR - ****
8) Mankind/HHH - Steel Cage (Summerslam) - ***1/2
9) Davey Boy Smith/O. Hart (3/3 RAW) - ***1/2
10) Davey Boy Smith & O. Hart/HBK & Austin (25/5 RAW) - ***1/4

Note: Taker = GOAT, baby!


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rock/Punk promo was immersing. Match already has brilliant heat.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I didn't like Punk/Ryback at all. Piss poor match if you ask me. Ryback completely no selling that leg worked ruined the entire match for me. And yes that's all it takes to ruin an entire match for me lol.

I had it at one snow flake but for the awesome ending it gets two snowflakes.

In Cena's defense, the wave at the start was awesome, no? Come on! I couldn't be the only one who liked that?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

THE ROCK was awesome as usual last night.










ROCK.

And thank god Cena beat Ziggler clean and kicked out of his finishers. That bland fuck will hopefully go down the card now.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

jomo17 said:


> Just got done with the last '97 RAW, watched all year plus the PPV's. Great, great year for the WWF, had two GOAT-contender matches (Hart/Austin and HBK/Taker) as well as some cool storylines (the beginning of Taker/Kane, Austins rise & the screwjob/DX formation). Yeah it had it's crap, just like any year (Goldust in the last two months, god that was... different).
> 
> Top 10 matches:
> 
> ...


No Canadian Stampede 10 Man Tag?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I didn't like Punk/Ryback at all. Piss poor match if you ask me. Ryback completely no selling that leg worked ruined the entire match for me. And yes that's all it takes to ruin an entire match for me lol.
> 
> I had it at one snow flake but for the awesome ending it gets two snowflakes.
> 
> In Cena's defense, the wave at the start was awesome, no? Come on! I couldn't be the only one who liked that?


Lol I nearly curled up into a ball at nearly everything Cena did, and when it came to the wave, I walked out of the room and went for a shit, which was infinitely more entertaining.

I enjoyed the TLC, although nowhere near as good as the six man in December. Punk took some nice bumps and so did Ryback at the end to be fair. Ending was predictable but oh well at least Punk came out unscathed and Ryback can continue with The Shield now. ***


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The day Cena retires is the day I am a very very happy wrestling fan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Royal Rumble's , was it in 1993 when Savage went for a pin lol?!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Speaking of Royal Rumble's , was it in 1993 when Savage went for a pin lol?!


Yeah, then Yokozuna kicked out of it so powerfully that it ended up eliminating Savage. Man at the time I was pissed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Yeah, then Yokozuna kicked out of it so powerfully that it ended up eliminating Savage. Man at the time I was pissed.


Im sure Savage did some sort of suicide dive too at one Rumble....


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

:lol Cena in comparison to the Rock and Punk in demeanor, you gotta love it. 

Slightly annoyed after a brilliant opening match the new finisher given to Ziggler to try and elevate him to the main-event has already been squashed, nice job WWE on that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk's promo last night was awesome. Rock was awful as usual. He actually managed to top his Kung Pow Bitch line in terms of awfulness.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I loved how Cena kicked out of like four finishers in a matter of like 60 seconds and Ziggler got pinned after one finisher.

Yup.

Buried.

And the writers have to step up The Rock's promo lines. They're not funny.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

jomo17 said:


> 9) Davey Boy Smith/O. Hart (3/3 RAW) - ***1/2
> 10) Davey Boy Smith & O. Hart/HBK & Austin (25/5 RAW) - ***1/4


Surprised those are so low. I'm assuming Davey Boy/Owen was the Euro title final? Don't recall the date.

That tag is GOAT level good. ***1/4 might be the lowest I've ever seen on that.



Big Z said:


> Punk's promo last night was awesome. Rock was awful as usual. He actually managed to top his Kung Pow Bitch line in terms of awfulness.


Punk was really good, and of course all of us ate it up. However, given the lack of heat at times I feel the content went over the heads of a lot of people, much like his original pipe bomb. That being said, I'm that much more excited for their match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah 3/3/97 is the European title final for Owen/Davey. GOAT Raw match imo. ****3/4.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

9) Davey Boy Smith/O. Hart (3/3 RAW) - ***1/2
10) Davey Boy Smith & O. Hart/HBK & Austin (25/5 RAW) - ***1/4

Waaaay too low for both matches.

Bulldog/Owen- ****1/2

Bulldog/Owen vs HBK/Austin ****1/2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Watched some Raw today. You know, bcuz of The Rock. His promo was great. Promos are not all about what you say, it's how you say it, it's how people react. Energy. Delivery. The Rock gets it. In my humble opinion, he COMPLETELY owned CP Munk last night. And I mean, COMPLETELY. You gotta be either a blind and biased Punk mark, or crazy Rock hater, to not to see it. Punk's promo was good at the beginning, but he completely lost the track down the road. The moment he tried to get some cheap heat with Bruno and Hogan name dropping, he lost me, and reminded me why I so strongly dislike him, and since 2010 - his promos too. His stuff just seems all over the place. He comes across as a cheap imitation of... fucking something, with all those name droppings and crybaby bitchings all the time. Same old shit like Cena from last year: movies, schedule, etc. Really? What if The Rock brought up the vanilla midget stuff, Punk carrying the midcard title, etc? The Rock could've BURY him in million different ways. I am sick and tired of Punk's "OMG TEH SHOOTZ", and I don't even watch WWE, lol. I sympathize with all of you who have to suffer from Punk, tbh.

Other:

- lolCena
- lolRyback
- loleverythingelse


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> No Canadian Stampede 10 Man Tag?


Why the hell was that 1996 in my head?! Not sure where it would rate, maybe #6 ish? **** for me, loved the brawl afterward.

And i'm not sure what it is about the Hart/Bulldog euro final, I just can't seem to get into it. I can appreciate the great standard of wrestling on offer but I didn't like the 'we're tag-team partners, now we hate each other, now we're in a stable together' storyline they put together. And TBH, I see a good story as being a key part of te overall rating I give it. It's a great wrestling match, granted, just not my cup of tea. 

:cheer, being different!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Final Four should be in there somewhere too, probably.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

DISC 1


A Real Privilege

Untapped Resources

My Backyard

2-out of-3 Falls Match for the British Commonwealth Jr. Heavyweight Championship
Bret Hart vs. Dynamite Kid
Stampede Wrestling • December 1978

World Tour

Bret Hart vs. Buzz Sawyer
Georgia Championship Wrestling • September 1979

A Lot of Promise

North American Heavyweight Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. Leo Burke
Stampede Wrestling • January 1983

The Best It Gets

Bret Hart vs. Dynamite Kid
Capital Centre • September 14, 1985

Energy

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Hart Foundation vs. The Islanders
Philadelphia Spectrum • March 14, 1987

A Sign of Respect

Bret Hart vs. Andre the Giant
Milan, Italy • April 10, 1989

The Right Formula

Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect
Maple Leaf Gardens • April 23, 1989

DISC 2


This Is For Us

Hart Foundation vs. The Twin Towers
Duluth, Minnesota • May 17, 1989

The Greatest Super-Card of All-Time

Bret Hart vs. Tiger Mask II
WWE / New Japan / All Japan Wrestling Summit • April 13, 1990

Change of the Guard

Intercontinental Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair
New Haven, Connecticut • November 13, 1991

On the Threshold of Greatness

Bret Hart vs. Undertaker
Madison Square Garden • January 31, 1992

The Best Big Man

Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
Milan, Italy • April 25, 1993

DISC 3


Evolution at That Time

WWE Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. Diesel
King of the Ring • June 19, 1994

Masterpieces

No Holds Barred
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart
RAW • March 27, 1995

Powerhouse

Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte
In Your House • September 24, 1995

Time Off

Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
Sun City Superbowl • September 14, 1996

Simultaneously a Hero and a Rat

WWE Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. The Patriot
In Your House: Ground Zero • September 7, 1997

Wrestling Injured

WCW United States Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. Booker T
WCW Monday Nitro • January 25, 1999

Misjudging Sting

Semi-Finals Match for the WCW Championship
Bret Hart vs. Sting
WCW Mayhem • November 21, 1999

Trip Through Memory Lane



BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES


Dream Matches

Travel Schedule

Sleeping on a Plane

Survivor Series with Bob Backlund

Masked Man

Trumpet Sound

Customs with Owen

Lost at Sea

Prized Possession

Two of the Best in Japan

Super Skilled, Super Athletic

WWE Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna
White Plains, New York • November 29, 1993

Doing It Old School

Bret Hart & British Bulldog vs. Owen Hart & Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart
Albany, New York • October 19, 1994

A Good Soul

Bret Hart vs. Hakushi
RAW • July 24, 1995

Cement Truck

WWE Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. Vader
Friday Night’s Main Event • August 29, 1997

The Artist

Favourites


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

COOKIE PUSS.

That BRET DVD looks awesome as usual, anybody have any reviews of these matches outside of the obvious PPV matches that I've seen anyways ? WHY isn't Final Four on this ? Does WWE just HATE that match for some reason ? BRET WINS THE TITLE IN IT FFS !


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy shit, look at those blu ray extras! Yoko, Hakushi, and VADER!! Jesus that looks good. Hart Foundation matches & singles vs. Owen look promising. Big thumbs up from me.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Sad they haven't finished the dvd with his 5 STAR CLASSIC against Vince.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wish i had blu-ray lol, oh well i now have that Vader '97 match on a Vader comp, wouldnt mind that Yokozuna match though (although i have the house show what that was on i think at least)

Excellent looking set as i expected, one DVD im excited for. Did Bret hand pick all these matches anyone know?


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

JoeRulz said:


> Watched some Raw today. You know, bcuz of The Rock. His promo was great. Promos are not all about what you say, it's how you say it, it's how people react. Energy. Delivery. The Rock gets it. In my humble opinion, he COMPLETELY owned CP Munk last night. And I mean, COMPLETELY. You gotta be either a blind and biased Punk mark, or crazy Rock hater, to not to see it. Punk's promo was good at the beginning, but he completely lost the track down the road. The moment he tried to get some cheap heat with Bruno and Hogan name dropping, he lost me, and reminded me why I so strongly dislike him, and since 2010 - his promos too. His stuff just seems all over the place. He comes across as a cheap imitation of... fucking something, with all those name droppings and crybaby bitchings all the time. Same old shit like Cena from last year: movies, schedule, etc. Really? What if The Rock brought up the vanilla midget stuff, Punk carrying the midcard title, etc? The Rock could've BURY him in million different ways. I am sick and tired of Punk's "OMG TEH SHOOTZ", and I don't even watch WWE, lol. I sympathize with all of you who have to suffer from Punk, tbh.
> 
> Other:
> 
> ...


Cookie Puss.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Watched some Raw today. You know, bcuz of The Rock. His promo was great. Promos are not all about what you say, it's how you say it, it's how people react. Energy. Delivery. The Rock gets it. In my humble opinion, he COMPLETELY owned CP Munk last night. And I mean, COMPLETELY. You gotta be either a blind and biased Punk mark, or crazy Rock hater, to not to see it. Punk's promo was good at the beginning, but he completely lost the track down the road. The moment he tried to get some cheap heat with Bruno and Hogan name dropping, he lost me, and reminded me why I so strongly dislike him, and since 2010 - his promos too. His stuff just seems all over the place. He comes across as a cheap imitation of... fucking something, with all those name droppings and crybaby bitchings all the time. Same old shit like Cena from last year: movies, schedule, etc. Really? What if The Rock brought up the vanilla midget stuff, Punk carrying the midcard title, etc? The Rock could've BURY him in million different ways. I am sick and tired of Punk's "OMG TEH SHOOTZ", and I don't even watch WWE, lol. I sympathize with all of you who have to suffer from Punk, tbh.


Well put. He wasn't bad last night (although I skipped his pre-Rock "pipebomb") but his material is so boring. To his credit, he had a serious face on for the whole thing which is good to start with and Cena smiling like a moron while The Rock talks about ripping his throat and beating him at WM.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Top 10 WWE Matches of 2012*

*10
WWE Championship
CM Punk(c) vs. John Cena
Night of Champions*










_Already gave my thoughts on this one yesterday. I enjoyed everything up until the ending which simply put just annoyed me. It was on its way to being pretty darn great until the finisher fest, literal, finisher fest, that occurred at the end. I loved the big fight feel to this though and it’s the same for all Punk/Cena matches. They feel important. Their wonderful chemistry was once again on display but I didn’t feel that this match quite clicked together the way MITB did. That isn’t a bad thing though because MITB is one of those special matches that you don’t get every year. It had those intangibles that set it apart from everything else. This match didn’t._

*~ **** ~*


*9
World Heavyweight Championship
The Big Show vs. Sheamus(c)
Hell in a Cell*










_Loved this the first few times I watched it and loved it just as much this time. The story was basic, the Brogue Kick vs. The KO Punch and I think they played it to perfection. I also love how they continuously put over the fact that Sheamus had never faced Show before and didn’t quite know how to deal with him. The commentary complimented the match so well. Thank you JR. Show’s control segment was great and the slow build comeback of Sheamus was just as great. A lot of folks don’t like either of these guys and I know a lot of people didn’t even give them a chance heading into this thing. I love the fact that they just went in there and proved everybody wrong by having such a great match. _

*~ ****1/4 ~


8
World Heavyweight Championship
2 out of 3 Falls
Sheamus(c) vs. Daniel Bryan
Extreme Rules*










_(I lost my write up for this and I'm not doing it again lol.)_

*~ ****1/4 ~


7
World Heavyweight Championship
Fatal Four Way Match
Sheamus(c) vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho
Over The Limit*










_I wasn’t even going to watch this but I sure as hell am happy that I did. What a gem. It was fast paced, the action was quick and crisp and just flat out fucking fun. All 4 of them meshed really well together. Basic story of the heels working together to take out the faces but I also liked how all 3 of them never allowed Sheamus to get into the match for a while. The little RKO/Brogue Kick reversal exchange in the middle of the match was awesome. I loved that. Never a dull moment in this thing. Great match. _

*~ ****1/4 ~


6
WWE Championship
Chicago Street Fight
CM Punk(c) vs. Chris Jericho
Extreme Rules*










_The entire storyline for this feud is absolutely ridiculous, so much so that I can’t help but laugh lol. So fucking stupid. Anyways, on to the match. CHICAGO STREET FIGHT and what a fight it was. Lots of great stuff in this and it’s a million times better than their boring match at Mania 28. Given the nature of their feud, as stupid as it was, this is what I wanted to see from them. The hometown crowd made it even better. Punk’s sister slapping Jericho and then Punk going nuts afterwards was cool. It was a back and forth battle and just a great fight. Jericho countering the Anaconda Vice with those Kendo Stick shots was sick. The elbow onto the announce table is always a spot that makes me mark and that wasn’t any different this time. Brilliant match._ 

*~ ****1/2 ~


5
The Perfect Storm
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
Summerslam*










_I know I’m in the minority but I absolutely fucking love this match. Everything about it is awesome. The arm work by Brock, the selling by Hunter, Hunter accidentally stumbling upon the beast’s Achilles heel, the selling of the stomach by Brock. Wow. Absolutely fantastic. Then there’s all the subtle things too, Brock constantly working the arm, the key locks, slam on the table, that vicious stomp, Heyman on the outside “Stop doing that!” lol. Huge mark out moment when Brock takes off the gloves. That was badass. I love how they started with Trips being able to temporarily match Brock for a few minutes but then he just went and pissed off the beast by throwing him out of the ring. Brock comes back in, the gloves are off, literally, and shit goes down. I love the story they told, I love the brilliant psychology of the match, I love Brock and his whole fucking aura in this match (and the one with Cena too). He’s a legit machine and one of the very few guys that you can’t take your eyes off. Absolute freak of nature and he’s 2 for 2 in this return. This wasn’t the match I was expecting from these 2 but I loved every second of it. Fantastic stuff. _

*~ ****1/2 ~*


*4
Tables, Ladder & Chairs Match
The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Ryback
TLC*










_Chaos. Recklessness. Destruction. All out carnage. I loved it. Fantastic showing for The Shield. Rollins and Ambrose were the stars here and we got a few flashes of brilliance from Reigns too. The guy is a powerhouse. I love that they won and I love that we don't get to see them in matches all the time because I sure as hell can't wait to see them in action again. The spots were so smart. That double suplex off the table was awesome. The Rollins spot at the end was some Jeff Hardy level stuff. I imagine when he turns face, Rollins will fill that gap nicely. Loved everything about this. Ryback was great too along with Bryan. Hell they all were. This thing definitely lived up to the hype. Brilliant match. Watched it again since I posted this yesterday and was glued to the screen yet again. To steal a line from Mr. Lesnar, utter frickin chaos lol._

*~ ****1/2 ~


3
WWE Championship
CM Punk(c) vs. Daniel Bryan
Over The Limit*










_:lmao Punk’s impression of Vince in his pre-match interview. I lol’d. I’m no Punk mark. I’m no Bryan mark either. But I love this match. What a technical battle and all out war. It was stiff and the two of them literally beat the shit out of each other. The surfboard was a bit of a markout moment. What a move. I loved the intensity both of them brought to this thing. They matched each other elbow for elbow, kick for kick, move for move, submission for submission and counter for counter. Fantastic stuff and I could easily watch it again. We don’t get this type of stuff in WWE all the time and it was a nice change of pace from the usual WWE main event. Yes, it was less story based and more psychology/DEM MOVES driven but it was so well put together that it had my attention right from the start and kept me enthralled the whole way through._

*~ ****1/2 ~


2
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena
Extreme Rules Match
Extreme Rules*










_I did a full write up for this one right after I watched it because I loved it so much and could be bothered to do it at the time lol. If you want to read it, click below...if not, just know that it's fucking awesome and would have received the full 5 had it not been for the stupid finish that I'll never get over. EVER. Enough rambling, read it!_



Spoiler: BROCK/SHEENA



_The ASS KICKER vs. the FACE OF THE COMPANY. Jesus Christ what a match. Another example of something more than a match actually, this also ranks as an experience imo. This was 150% carnage. Absolute carnage. I’ve never seen anything like this in on WWE TV before in my life. It was other worldly lol. Brock Lesnar is a HEEL and a total machine. I can’t even describe how badly I marked out for his sheer badassery in this thing. His physical presence is unmatched. His recklessness is incredible to watch. His facial expressions are brilliant. His agility is ridiculous for a man his size. The man is just a freak of nature simply put and that element of LEGITIMACY and realness he brings to his matches is so so wonderful to watch. He makes it possible to blur the line between what is real and what isn’t and I love that. Enough marking over Lesnar lol.

I love how they had Cena’s vulnerability show with the fact that he came to the ring with a chain. He IS scared and why wouldn’t he be? Look at who is waiting for him in the ring. Match starts and Cena bombs across only to get nailed with a vicious takedown and subsequent beatdown. Those elbow strikes are brutal as hell and we instantly get blood. BLOOD in a WWE match in 2012. Madness. It was used to full effect here though. Unlike a few years ago, we aren’t conditioned to seeing blood in matches anymore so when those first red blotches hit the mat this thing got real in a hurry. It also put over Lesnar as a sadistic motherfucker. Cena gets up and goes back for more 3 times and every time gets decimated with elbow strikes, punches to the head and knee strikes to the gut. This is a fucking fight and as Cole points out, Cena is getting brutalised like never before. Fans are still eating it up but you can sense the shift happening already. A lot of people look stunned at what is happening before them. 

Some spots I loved and marked out for. GERMAN SUPLEXES. When was the last time we saw a German? Loved it. Brock tying Cena up in the chain and then running him the fuck over. He’s just a machine. There’s a moment where he literally licks Cena’s blood off his fingers. WHO DOES THAT!!! We need a heel like him in the WWE SO badly we really do. 

Brock eventually nails an F5 but there’s no ref. A new ref comes out and only gets the 2. Lesnar freaks and beats the shit out of him. His ruthlessness and utter disregard for everything around him shines through and continues to put over how much of a lunatic he is. We get a brilliant Cena comeback spot where he’s locked in the kimura on the steel steps but through sheer force of will he manages to lift Lesnar up and slam him on the steps. A glimmer of hope perhaps? Can the beast be beaten? Nope because next comes the most reckless spot of them all. DAT TOP ROPE JUMP. Yes. DAT TOP ROPE JUMP. How athletic is he to make that leap anyways? Jesus. Crowd pops in shock as they both hit the ground hard. Lesnar’s knee looks to be fucked but what does he do? He gets up and starts fucking laughing. :lmao He laughs. What a bastard! He goes for it again only to get nailed with DAT CHAIN. What a shot. Brock’s now busted open. This thing is past the stage of getting ugly lol. Cena gets all worked up and lays in wait to hit the AA. Boom, 1, 2, 3, it’s over and the wrong man won.

I don’t care what anybody says, John Cena should NOT have won that match and for that reason, I can’t give this the full 5*. It still pisses me off. But…I’m not about to let that ruin how amazing this is. Cena shouldn’t have won, I found it utterly ridiculous that he did not to mention how he did, I’ve stated my opinion on the matter enough times so I’ll just leave it at that. 

I agree wholeheartedly with those calling this a top 10 WWE match ever because it absolutely is. It’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen before. The story they told was the most simple of them all but the subtle touches along the way, especially from Lesnar, just made the whole thing that little bit extra special and truly unique. I’m actually still a bit shocked that they let them go out there and have a match like that in this day and age tbh but I’m glad that they did. The fact that Cena turned the Chicago crowd in his favour, a crowd who booed him to DEATH at Wrestlemania 22 and at MITB just one year ago were sucked in by the story they told to the point where they started to root for him. John Cena, for a rare occasion in his career actually WAS the underdog. His post match speech is the usual Cena BS but whatever. I can’t speak highly enough about this match, this fight in every sense of the word. A true masterpiece and BROCK FUCKING LESNAR is all I have left to say really._


*~ ****3/4 ~


1
The End of an Era
The Undertaker vs. Triple H
Hell in a Cell
w/Shawn Michaels as Special Guest Referee*










_Again, I did a full write up for this one. It's less of a match review and more of a thoughtful piece I guess. Warning, contains a lot of marking but I couldn't help it. This match is special to me and hopefully, if you go on to read, you will find out why._



Spoiler: THE GOATS



_I don’t even know what to say about this match. I suppose I should preface it by saying that I was there live at Sunlife Stadium to witness and more importantly, experience, this match firsthand because it was more than just a wrestling match, it really was an experience. I have watched these 3 men on my TV basically every week for the past decade, hell, longer than that. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money to watch them on PPV and to attend events to see them in person. All of them have encompassed so many memorable matches and moments and have made my time as a fan so much better for watching them and for having them there. 

A lot of people call bullshit on the ‘End of an Era’ tagline that was used to promote this match because they’re going to wrestle again but I don’t think they quite fully understand what it meant. This was without a doubt, the LAST time that we’ll ever see 2 (or 3 if we include Shawn) guys from the past eras lock it up in the ring again against each other. Time takes no prisoners. Undertaker is almost 50 and HHH almost 45. The new era, whatever it is, is upon us. The Cena’s, Orton’s, Punk’s and Sheamus’s are running the show now. The ‘End of an Era’ is what they said it is. The last time we’ll get to see 2 stars with the legacies of Triple H and The Undertaker face each other in a match on such a grand scale and for that reason, this match will always be special to me. It’s my childhood and everything that was great about it getting the ultimate platform to say goodbye. I think that’s why a lot of fans hold this match in such high regard. Like I said before, it isn’t just a wrestling match. It’s much more than that and it truly was for me, even more so because I got to sit there and watch 2 masters, 3, I keep forgetting Shawn lol, do what they do best and take me on a roller coaster ride.

I have watched the match back on TV and the atmosphere is incredible. Multiply that by a hundred and that’s what it was like to be there live and to feel every emotion from everybody around you. From the moment JR walked down the aisle, something I admittedly marked shamelessly for, everybody in that place was hooked. It’s very rare that these types of matches come along and to say I was exhausted by the end of it is a complete understatement. 

On to the match itself, what can I say? It was like watching a movie play out for entire duration and that’s including the entrances and the aftermath. The 4 year Streak story arc is without a doubt the best handled storyline WWE has produced in a long time. It’s up there with the best of them if you ask me. From the Shawn/Taker matches at 25 and 26, to Taker retiring Shawn, to HHH making the challenge at 27, to Taker getting taken to the absolute limit in that match and in a way, getting defeated even though he got the victory, we all knew this was going to be a WAR and it was. It was brutal, it was vicious, it was uncaring, it was respect, it was friendship, it was vengeance, it was vindication, it was a spectacle and epitomizes what people go to Wrestlemania to see. It was 3 men (I included Shawn this time lol) taking 70,000 people in the palm of their hands and pulling every emotion out of us that they could. 

I have this match at 5* because I can’t rate it any less. Maybe it’s because I was there live to experience it for myself, maybe it’s because I’ve been attached to these characters and the performers behind the characters for the past 16/17 years of my life, maybe it’s because the match was just that fucking good lol. I don’t know. But I feel privileged to have seen it in person and it more than made my ticket worth the money. It was the culmination of my childhood, of the characters I have grown up with on TV and watched grow up and evolve too. This match will always hold a special place in my heart and it is, without a shadow of a doubt, THE match of the year for 2012._


*~ ***** ~*


_*Quick rankings*_:

*10) Punk/Cena NOC - ****
9) Show/Sheamus HIAC - ****1/4
8) Bryan/Sheamus ER - ****1/4
7) Orton/Del Rio/Jericho/Sheamus OTL - ****1/4
6) Punk/Jericho ER - ****1/2
5) Trips/Lesnar SS - ****1/2
4) Shield/Hell No & Ryback - ****1/2
3) Punk/Bryan OTL - ****1/2
2) Cena/Lesnar ER - ****3/4
1) Taker/Trips WM - ******

*Most overrated: Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk, Wrestlemania 28

Most underrated: Sheamus vs. Del Rio vs. Jericho vs. Orton, OTL

Exceeded Expectations: Randy Orton vs. Kane, Wrestlemania 28*

*Honourable Mention: The Rock vs. John Cena, Wrestlemania 28*​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow the Bret Hart DVD looks really good. I haven't bought a WWE release from anywhere other than a book store I was too ashamed to leave without buying anything in like three years and I'd consider this one. A Misawa match on a WWE release. How 'bout that. I mean the match is kinda boring and Bret never learned how to not be boring in Japan but it's something to see. If that Buzz Sawyer match from 79 is the one I've seen then I hope everyone likes it b/c it's kinda awesome. If it's not the same one then YEY ANOTHER HART/SAWYER.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Pre-ordered the Hart set. I do wish Final Four was on there but I'm happy with everything else that made it. Thumbs up to the Dynamite Kid, Perfect, Owen, Austin and Flair matches. *KOK*, I reviewed the Owen NHB match in the Classic Wrestling Review thread like a week or so ago.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great write-up, Starbuck. Don't agree with every pick but agree with most of it. Glad I'm not the only huge fan of that OTL 4 way.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Looks like I need to watch that OTL 4-way.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^didn't strike me as anything special at all


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> It’s much more than that and it truly was for me, even more so because I got to sit there and watch 2 masters, 3, *I keep forgetting Shawn* lol, do what they do best and take me on a roller coaster ride.


I thought Shawn added so much to the match with his expressions and the emotion in his eyes. That moment where he was sat in the corner with his hand over his mouth, almost unable to continue reffing the carnage in front of him, little things like that really enhanced the match.



Starbuck said:


> On to the match itself, what can I say? It was like watching a movie play out for entire duration and that’s including the entrances and the aftermath. The 4 year Streak story arc is without a doubt the best handled storyline WWE has produced in a long time. It’s up there with the best of them if you ask me. From the Shawn/Taker matches at 25 and 26, to Taker retiring Shawn, to HHH making the challenge at 27, to Taker getting taken to the absolute limit in that match and in a way, getting defeated even though he got the victory, we all knew this was going to be a WAR and it was. It was brutal, it was vicious, it was uncaring, it was respect, it was friendship, it was vengeance, it was vindication, it was a spectacle and epitomizes what people go to Wrestlemania to see. It was 3 men (I included Shawn this time lol) taking 70,000 people in the palm of their hands and pulling every emotion out of us that they could.


Epic paragraph.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm going to watch Hogan/Warrior Wrestlemania VI. I know the historical importance of this match, but I have such bitter memories of their horrid Halloween Havoc match (shudder). Anything I should know/expect from the match?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Anark said:


> I thought Shawn added so much to the match with his expressions and the emotion in his eyes. That moment where he was sat in the corner with his hand over his mouth, almost unable to continue reffing the carnage in front of him, little things like that really enhanced the match.


This. The moment after he had a split-second breakdown and Superkicked Taker with Taker kicking out is priceless. He legit looked like he was in sheer and utter agony.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Currently watching Rey Mysterio: Life of a Masked Man

WGTT vs. Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman - ***1/2
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison - ****


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Anyone got any snowflakes for MITB 2012? Just picked it up on blu-ray on the cheap.

This Freemantle place is painfully slow in putting up their new website for us UK DVD buyers. Just wanna know their prices aren't going to be extortionate. Silvervision were pretty perfect to be honest so will be great if they can match them


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

MITB 12

SD MITB: *****
Sheamus/Alberto: ****
Punk/Bryan: *****
Raw MITB: ***1/2*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MITB '12

SD MITB - ***1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio - **1/4
Punk/Bryan - ***3/4
Raw MITB - *1/4

It's an okay show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MITB:

SD Ladder - ★★¾
SH-SH-SHEAMUS/Del Rio - ★★¼
Punk/Bryan - ★¼
RAW Ladder - ★★★


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Damn one snowflake and a quarter of the other for Punk/Bryan MITB? That might be the lowest I have ever seen. 

On a related now, I too have also been meaning to look at Hogan/Warrior WM VI. It looks like an exciting match but then again WWE editing can make any damn thing look good. But the match is such a historical match, I owe it to myself to see it.

Nice to see there are some others who agree with me that Punk/Cena turned into a finisher fest at the end. And no, I do not support the argument that that's the WWE style for main events. The main event style of WWE consists of false finishes. Those were two counts. There's a difference between a false finish and a 2 count.

Still a great match, imo, and I have it 4 stars but the match had so much more potential. Not to mention the awesome build to it. I wish we could see that side of Cena more often. Punk is one of the few opponents that could bring out some seriousness in Cena. Still, the worst and I mean the very worst of their encounters is their RAW match. Hated that so damn much. Now that was the real finisher fest.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

**~Judgement Day 2005 review*~ *







​* MNM vs Hardcore Holly and Charlie Haas for the WWE tag team championships:* ***1/2*. Eh, this match was okay for what it was. Not really note-worthy or anything. Dull start 5 minutes into the match but it really picked up once Hardcore Holly went for the hot tag to Charlie Haas. An okay start to the PPV with MNM retaining the WWE tag team titles and rightfully so. MNM were showing potential all through-out 2005 and would make the WWE tag team division on Smackdown interesting again. That is until Brian Kendrick and Paul London were paired as a tag team. 

*Carlito vs The Big Show:* **1/2*. Most of the match is Big Show dominating Carlito with Carlito barely getting any offesne in and also the Matt Mogan inerference with Morgan giving Big Show an F-5 and Carlito scoring the pin. Plus, the match is short. Moving along, nothing to see here. 

*Paul London vs Chavo Guerrero for the Cruiserweight championship:* *****. Decent Cruiserweight title match between Paul London and Chavo Guerrero. It was fast-paced and had a could of great spots in it like Paul London hitting a Senton Bomb on the turnbuckle on Chavo Guerrero from outside the ring. A minor problem I did have with the match is Chavo abandoning the arm-work but other than that, it was a pretty good match. This should have opended the show instead of the tag team match IMO. 

*Booker T vs Kurt Angle:* ****1/2*. I enjoyed this match a lot actually. Really good in-ring wrestling and also brawling with Booker T kicking Kurt's ass from start to finish. This match dragged a little too long for my liking and the pacing of the match was a little off but it was still great. Booker T gets the win which was the end of their feud as Kurt Angle would soon head to Raw afterwards.

*Orlando Jordan vs Heidenreich for the United States championship:* ***. I'm slapping myself in the head for even watching this match. It was boring as hell and a match that should have been on Velocity. That's how bad it was. 

*Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero:* ******. Awesome match. The in-ring stuff was great, the pacing was great, and the crowd was great. While this match pales in comparison to the another Guerrero/Mysterio matches, I find it to be better than their Great American Bash 05 encounter. I would have liked to see Eddie pick up the win here to avenge his his loss to Rey at WrestleMania 21 but eh, no biggie I guess. 

*John Cena vs JBL for the WWE championship:* *****1/2*. While this match isn't anything special, it's still a great brawl between John Cena and JBL. It was an all-out WAR between the two with all of the blood-shed. This match was brutal, intense, and got Cena over as a top face right around the time where the WWE needed a fresh face to fill the void after Brock Lesnar left and Cena was that guy. This match was JBL and John Cena's best match with one another and a BIG step-up from their dull match at WrestleMania 21. Great I Quit match and a great way to end off their feud. 

*Final rating:* *5/10*. Besides the awesome main event between John Cena and JBL over the WWE championship, the Eddie vs Rey Mysterio match, and the solid Booker T vs Kurt Angle match, this PPV felt like a 2005 episode of Smackdown. Now I get that not every match needs to be 5-star worthy and that some matches have to be filler to fill in time but the rest of the card felt either thrown together or uninteresting. Given the lack of star-power on the Smackdown brand, this PPV would have benefited if this PPV wasn't Smackdown exclusive and that the Raw brand was featured on the PPV as well. I'm not saying that the brand exclusive PPVs were all horrible but some of it suffered because of the lack of depth in the roster and this PPV was an example of a lack of depth in the Smackdown roster back in 2005. Average PPV with an underwhelming card overall.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Eddie didn't win that match to further the storyline. Wish it had stayed in that lane instead of that stupid "secret" addition. I really like that JD PPV. Three good matches is a great thing for Smackdown PPVs when in 2004 they struggled to even have one of them.



sharkboy22 said:


> Damn one snowflake and a quarter of the other for Punk/Bryan MITB? That might be the lowest I have ever seen.
> 
> Still, the worst and I mean the very worst of their encounters is their RAW match. Hated that so damn much. Now that was the real finisher fest.


Pretty sure JoeRulz gave it 1 star and called it "being generous".

And I don't know why you keep bringing up their Raw match as a finisher fest. That is, if you talk about their match shortly after SummerSlam. There was one GTS and one AA kick-out then the second AA following Nash's distraction ended it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> *John Cena vs JBL for the WWE championship:* *****1/2*. While this match isn't anything special,


Got to disagree with this statement, this is the match that MADE Cena, others may argue that but this is where Cena became a main eventer, it was a war, brutal and electric.

Love this match i'd stick with *****1/2*

I didn't think much of Angle/Booker ***3/4* 
Eddie/Mysterio was awesome *****1/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trying to come up with a new way to rate PPVs as a whole, so I decided to steal the "CAL SCALE" and just add a few different things to make it more efficient 

_Points System_

SHIT (DUD-* 1/2) : -1
Below Average(* 3/4-** 1/4) : 0
Average (** 1/2-** 3/4) : 0.5
Solid (***) : 1
Good (*** 1/4-*** 1/2) : 2
Great (*** 3/4-****) : 3.5
Classic (**** 1/4) : 4
EPIC (**** 1/2+) : 6
MOTY : +2

*Survivor Series 2007*

CM Punk vs The Miz vs John Morrison : *****

5 on 5 Divas Tag : *DUD*

Hardcore Holly/Cody Rhodes vs Lance Cade/Trevor Murdoch : ****

Triple H/Jeff Hardy/Rey Mysterio/Kane vs Umaga/Finlay/MVP/Ken Kennedy/Big Daddy V : *****

The Great Khali vs Hornswoggle : *DUD*

Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels : ***** ¼*

Batista vs The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) : ******

*Overall Score : 7.5*

There's going to be some tweaking here and there of this formula, but for right now it looks pretty solid as this show was pretty damn great, but points were taken away due to there being a duo of REALLY SHITTY matches on this. Double main event was fantastic as expected with Orton-Michaels being one of Orton's finest contests, take my hat off to both men for their performance. Batista-Taker is a really underrated cell match that doesn't get talked about EVER for some reason and I don't know why, what a fucking war it was. Batista Bomb table spot was kinda stupid.

Survivor Series Tag was pretty good (I'm a sucker for those matches honestly) and the opener was awesome for MIZ standards. Great show all around here, gonna see how it compares to some others as we move forward


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> *John Cena vs JBL for the WWE championship:* *****1/2*. While this match isn't anything special, it's still a great brawl between John Cena and JBL. It was an all-out WAR between the two with all of the blood-shed. This match was brutal, intense, and got Cena over as a top face right around the time where the WWE needed a fresh face to fill the void after Brock Lesnar left and Cena was that guy. This match was JBL and John Cena's best match with one another and a BIG step-up from their dull match at WrestleMania 21. Great I Quit match and a great way to end off their feud.
> 
> *Final rating:* *5/10*. Besides the awesome main event between John Cena and JBL over the WWE championship, the Eddie vs Rey Mysterio match, and the solid Booker T vs Kurt Angle match, this PPV felt like a 2005 episode of Smackdown. Now I get that not every match needs to be 5-star worthy and that some matches have to be filler to fill in time but the rest of the card felt either thrown together or uninteresting. Given the lack of star-power on the Smackdown brand, this PPV would have benefited if this PPV wasn't Smackdown exclusive and that the Raw brand was featured on the PPV as well. I'm not saying that the brand exclusive PPVs were all horrible but some of it suffered because of the lack of depth in the roster and this PPV was an example of a lack of depth in the Smackdown roster back in 2005. Average PPV with an underwhelming card overall.


That Cena/JBL paragraph sorta contradicts itself, wouldn't ya say? **** 1/2 is a pretty high rating for a match that isn't anything special...


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Got to disagree with this statement, this is the match that MADE Cena, others may argue that but this is where Cena became a main eventer, it was a war, brutal and electric.
> 
> Love this match i'd stick with *****1/2*





Jack Evans 187 said:


> That Cena/JBL paragraph sorta contradicts itself, wouldn't ya say? **** 1/2 is a pretty high rating for a match that isn't anything special...


I'll admit, I think that the 'It isn't anything special' line could have been re-worded better but I still don't consider JBL vs John Cena to be a classic. However, I gave that match a ****1/2 because it made Cena a top star like Ever Wolf stated. Also adding to the fact that the match was brutal and intense but not enough for me to consider it a classic. The same goes for Triple H vs Batista's Hell in a Cell match at Vengeance 05. I'd give that a high rating for it being the match that made Batista a credible babyface World champion after having the torch passed to him by Triple H. Not to mention their Hell in a Cell match being one hell (no pun intended) of a Hell in a Cell match but I wouldn't give it a ***** because I don't consider that match to be a classic either.


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> This. The moment after he had a split-second breakdown and Superkicked Taker with Taker kicking out is priceless. He legit looked like he was in sheer and utter agony.


Deffo. Another nice touch I noticed was after the match when Taker and HBK had helped HHH up the ramp, there's a moment when Trips comes to his senses a bit and looks at Taker like _'WTF are you doing? Why are you helping me?'_

It'd be great to have a behind-the-scenes DVD one day where we see what they did after disappearing behind the curtain as well. I'd love to see how wrestlers interact after big matches like that. Are they complimenting or criticising each other on certain moves they did or back-slapping and high-fiving or what.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Anark said:


> Are they complimenting or criticising each other on certain moves they did or back-slapping and high-fiving or what.


HHH: Hey Mark, you were a bit rough out there, especially with those chair shots.
Taker: What are you gonna do, suspend me for a month? lol.
HHH: How about I book myself to end your streak next year?
Taker: Good luck with that, but I thought you were burying Brock next year in your rematch after you tap out to him at Summerslam?
HHH: ...
*Vince McMahon struts in*
Vince: Oh that's fine. Paul, if you want, I'll put you against both Taker and Brock in a handicap match next year at Mania. 
HHH: Am I going over?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> Pretty sure JoeRulz gave it 1 star and called it "being generous".


Yep... Fuck that match. I didn't give it DUD because I felt sorry for Daniel Bryan.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

MITB 2012:

SD MITB: **1/2
Fella/ADR: ***1/4
PTP/P&E: **
Punk/Bryan: ***1/2
Ryback/Squashees: Bleargh
Divas tag: Bleargh
RAW MITB: **1/2

Pretty much the definition of an average show. 2 good matches, 3 solid matches and 2 urgh, why did I watch that matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why are people shitting on Bryan/Punk MITB?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Why are people shitting on Bryan/Punk MITB?


I don't know. Maybe because it sucked? :heyman


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Gonna need a 5000 word essay detailing the reasons it sucks.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Only 5000 word essay I'd want to read is Cal professing his undying love for Lita and her box of love.

Or the ramblings of a straight edge Texan named Mike about why Bruce Springsteen, HIMYM & Zooey Deschanel are what I should be worshipping in life.

Or Jawbreaker's stoned thoughts on PWG.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What are your thoughts on that match, WOOLCOCK?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ironically enough I have yet to see it. I read up on the PPV but just never got around to watching it. AJ stuff wasn't awful at the time I thought (it got worse quickly though) but on a personal note I really hated her involvement in any program between Punk and Bryan. I know its more of a gimmick hardcore match, which honestly probably explains why I've waited so long to watch it. Aside from the TLC 6 man I can't tell you the last hardcore/gimmick match I've enjoyed from WWE. They all seem to follow the same structure, spots and weapons these days that any sort of hatred or originality disappears and it loses its impact.

The fact the Shield 6 man TLC was different and featured more authentic violence compare to the same recycled props and spots was one of the major reasons I loved the match live.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fair enough. I'm just a bit bewildered by the * ratings being thrown at it. I thought it was at least ***1/2 but to each his own. Now I want to watch it again to see how it holds up.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I should probably watch it eventually, I've seen pretty much every other big match from the company last year so seems pointless to purposefully avoid the MITB encounter. It did seem a rather divisive match live by all accounts, I know a few people in the MOTYC thread were arguing over it being a MOTYC or just a merely good match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It definitely wouldn't crack my top 10, and I think the finish/AJ's involvement soured a few people's opinions on the match. From what I recall I enjoyed it more than the gimmick match Punk and Jericho had at ER. I think that match is very overrated.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

AJ made me not care about the feud anymore she just started to overshadow everything about Punk vs. Bryan. Even the title, iirc the buildup vid for the MITB match was all about her. 

Hated it. Not the match, thought it was...alright. The Over the Limit match would have suffered too if AJ was the main focus but it was great because it was all about Punk vs. Bryan.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of either Punk/Jericho match. Jericho doesn't strike me as someone who should work a brawl (pretty sure he used a chinlock/resthold at one point) and his offence just lacks that violent aspect that lends itself to a 'fight'. Punk took some pretty big bumps to put over the match which I liked and the stuff with his sister was quite good. Aside from that the only other positive aspect I took from it was that both men wore street clothes which is something I wish everyone did when wrestling a street fight/gimmick match.

I'm spoilt in a way by watching Memphis and Lucha brawls which perfectly capture that authentic violence and utter hatred for your opponent. Once you see Sangre Chicana biting someone's bloody forehead and spitting blood into the air or Jerry Estrada headbutting a referee for trying to break up his assault you kinda struggle to get properly invested in a WWE version of a 'brawl'.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Or BROCK licking blood off his gloves.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like Bryan/Punk MITB, but would only go ***1/2 for it which is a huge letdown from their OTL match which obviously I have as MOTY for 2012 lol. I like AJ (one of the few left I think lol), so I didn't mind her being in the build up or in the match, I just felt things could have been done differently. AJ gets taken out of the match leaving Bryan and Punk without the distraction, and I feel they should have stuck to JUST having a wrestling match, continuing from OTL. Then when AJ comes back and introduces the chair for them to fight over, THAT should have been the first weapon introduced into the match. But what do I know? I'm an internet smark who never worked in the wrestling business a day in his life so I wouldn't know how to put a match together to save my life .


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Money In The Bank 2012 - No Disqualification Match for the WWE Championship w/ AJ as Special Guest Referee: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan*
In terms of the actual fight, this was another great showing from Punk and Bryan, who prove that they cannot have a bad match together. While not quite as technical as the OTL match they showed they can get hardcore if needed they managed to fit in all of their usual great stuff while embellishing on it all with the No DQ stip by introducing different weapons and gimmicks perfectly into the mix. But i could help but feel the story involving AJ kinda overshadowed the quality of the match. ***1/2 - ***3/4

*WWE SummerSlam 2012 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar *
For me this is a match either you love it or really hate it and for i'm part of that small group that love it The storytelling is fantastic and the psychology is off the charts. The arm work by Brock, and Triple H's selling of it was top notch. The key locks, slam on the mat and even the first one on the table and the arm stomps all make this match so much better. Then you had Brock's selling of the stomach which was LEGIT the greatest thing in some time I remember watching it for the first time and I swear to god I thought he was legit hurt plus seeing a man his size sell like he's gonna die is just great. ****1/4 And I didn't even talk about how "BADASS" Brock looks when he takes off the gloves. http://i.imgbox.com/abgwWtjc.gif See for yourselves 

Post-match, Brock stalks to the back and Trips is left lying as the music dies down. He and the WWE desperately were wanting the slow clap of respect from the fans. There's a small “Triple H” chant going but it dies rather quickly to be replaced by a louder “You Tapped Out” chant. The Trips chants come back but they are also joined by some boos. He continues slowly milking it for all it's worth and the crowd more or less comes around as he starts to cry. Not the emotional ending they were hoping for.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I legit thought they botched that table spot and BROCK's stomach was completely fucked. GOAT selling.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Brock WANTED to be the best in the world truly, I don't think anybody would really compare. Seriously, two fucking matches in the WWE since 2004 and I'd place one in my top 10 ever and one of them probably in my top 50 ever. BORK.

COOKIE PUSS. unk2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Since we're talking about Punk-Bryan MITB 2012..

For those of you who have WWE Classics on Demand, MITB 2012 is the current PPV they are showing. I watched the Bryan/Punk match about a week ago, but unfortunately when I had it on I got sidetracked by something else and didn't really get to take the match in 100%. But since it's such a hot topic around here, I'm going to watch it later on at some point.

Just wanted to let those who have WWE Classics on Demand know that the match is available right now. Right now I'm watching the 3/16/97 House Show at MSG. Just a week before WM 13. Some fun stuff. I miss that time period.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I watched Punk/Bryan MITB for my list and well....it sucked. Well it didn't suck but it certainly isn't anything special and nowhere near their OTL match. 

More people should love Brock/HHH. That is all.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^Most controversial match of last year. I've never seen match ratings that ranged so much between the * end and the **** end, and it was either one or the other for most people. I was a fan of the match.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

***1/2 for Punk/Bryan MITB - Still a good match between the two, and I have a slight tendancy toward gimmick/weapon matches so might be personal preference bringing the rating up. Not as good as OTL (which is #2 on my MOTY list_, but still a fun match to watch. AJ's involvement didn't bother me too much, as I liked the storyline and character, but the finish was pretty weak tbh, and the steel chair should have been that first weapon. But still, good, possibly great, match-up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk-Bryan from MITB 12 was fucking AWESOME. Could have been so much more (like *CAL* said, the chair should have been the first weapon introduced and not the fucking kendo stick, takes away from the importance of the chair when it is introduced). Still AWESOME and would still throw four snowflakes at it for real. Probably the most flawed four star match from a structure standpoint ever in my books, but Punk and Bryan are such gold together.

The overexposure of AJ into the match just represents what I find to be the mis-use of Daniel Bryan in 2012. AJ gets main event storylines and spots despite getting over on the coattails of Daniel Bryan, while Bryan stays EXTREMELY entertaining in the tag division.

Watching Cyber Sunday 2007 now, continuing a string of 2007 PPVs that I picked up for Christmas. Finlay-Rey was a fantastic opener, loved that shit.... Both men owned. **** 1/4* from me for sure. Looking at reviews and comparing, everybody's throwing less than three snowflakes at it, FUCK THAT SHIT ! ..... What is up with me rating stretcher matches much higher than everybody else ?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Bryan MITB- ***
Lesnar/HHH SS- ***

Both matches I can sum up simply with this: Not bad, but nowhere near as good as they should've been.

Edit: On that Finlay/Rey CS match, was that the one where Finlay faked the injury, being wheeled out on a stretcher only to blindside Rey and massacure him for a bit?

Actually scratch that, that wouldn't have happened in a stretcher match. Must've been their previous match, which I think was No Mercy? But yeah, that owned. Crowd was all "FINLAY FINLAY FINLAY" giving him a standing ovation and all that, and then he jumps off the stretcher and beats down Rey and the place erupts in boos. Awesome.

I miss Finlay. Really, there's no one except him that has made me a mark of them based solely on in-ring work. And it was only his WWE in-ring work to. I'm sure he has tons more good stuff in the past.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm gonna finally watch Lesnar/HHH for the first time. Way too many damn mixed reviews.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ok, just watched the Punk/Bryan MITB without getting distracted by work...

While the match was fast-paced and hard-hitting, that's really all I come away thinking about the match. There was very little ring psychology, which is disappointing, because we all know both are capable of so much more. It just felt like a bunch of hardcore spots here and there ending with the back suplex through the table, which was surprising. After such a hard-hitting match, I never thought a back suplex through the table would end the match. 

If you're looking for a match with fast-paced, hardcore weapon usage, then this is the match for you. If you're into wrestling masterpieces, than the OTL match is for you. ***1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm gonna finally watch Lesnar/HHH for the first time. Way too many damn mixed reviews.


Lesnar taking off the gloves = :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Finlay's awesome. Just nails every single aspect of being a worker. He structures and paces his matches superbly, knows how to make everything matter and play a part in the overall context of the match, can work as a face exceptionally well although his work as a heel is far more brilliant. Great striker, very comfortbable and astute on the mat, works even the most basic of holds and manoeuvres in such a way that they look far more impactful and violent than they otherwise would..just a natural in ring talent. There aren't many people who've been in WWE (and I'm taking work outside of the company into consideration) who I'd rank ahead of Finlay purely based as an in ring worker.

His WCW stuff is more limited to shorter matches, though in typical Finlay fashion he makes every second count to the point that even some of his sub 5 minute affairs still offer plenty of redeemable qualities. Slamboree '98 vs Benoit and Uncensored '96 vs Regal are his two best WCW matches imo. The Regal match in particular being between a top 5-10 match in company history. Their follow up Parking Lot Brawl is also arguably the best match in that gimmick, as they just beat the piss out of each other to make up for the restriction of wrestling on cars.

He's shown up in WOS a few times. The standout match so far being vs Marty Jones from 4/14/84. Its on dailymotion and is a typically violent and well paced match with Finlay busting out some insane bursts of athleticism as well as excelling as the villian. Wrote a bit about the match a while back:



> *Finlay vs Marty Jones, (4/14/84)*
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9bzuq_fit-finlay-vs-marty-jones-england-4_sport#.UO3GTHcybk8
> 
> ...


Or, if you don't want to read through all that rambling. I can summise its quality in the form of a gif:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I need to watch older Finlay stuff. Loved him in 06. I only vaguely remember him in WCW.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finlay/JBL Belfast Brawl from Mania 24. DAT TRASH CAN SHOT.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its strange, in many ways I think '06 was his peak. As a younger worker he's still violent albeit with more pace and able to work quicker grappling contests on the mat, but from the minute he returned in '06 he had that disgruntled old man looking to reclaim his birthright and murder some youngsters attitude that just made his matches so fun to watch. Methodical, calculating veteran Finlay might be his greatest time in his career. Arguably as violent as he ever was, given the freedom to work the style he wanted and he just compliments so many of the younger guys on the roster and plugs them into his formula which can't fail unless he has an off night or his opponent is really dire.

That WOS match is phenomenal however. Marty Jones is an amazing wrestler himself and feels like the precursor to Finlay and Regal with how he blends grappling with violent strikes and a smooth British swagger in his work. Jones actually trained Regal as a wrestler, and watching his work you can really see staples of Regal's act. I especially love how he's a more tough babyface who isn't afraid to castrate you the minute you piss him off.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Finlay/JBL Belfast Brawl from Mania 24. DAT TRASH CAN SHOT.


Love that match. So fun.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Finlay and Regal are two of my all time favourites. They work so brutal yet they deliver masterpieces. They're storytelling is off the charts!

So I finally saw Lesnar/HHH and all I have to say is, are some of you people crazy? Man, good story telling is really under appreciated these days. That match was freaking great if you ask me. The pacing was really good. From the balls out start to the control segment by Lesnar mixed in with the short burst comebacks by The Game, everything was just well timed and well done. Even the little things like Lesnar taking off the gloves. And most importantly, you throw some damn fine selling into the mix as well and you got the recipe to a great match. Now I'll be honest, I was going to award this match three and a three quarter snowflakes but damn! DAT FINISH! Came out of nowhere. That my friend's is a real false finish. Without spoiling anything (for those who haven't seen it yet) let's just say it's not your typical hit the finisher, go for a pin attempt "1, 2 ohhhhhhhh!!!! God what do I have to do" false finish. Now that I reflect on it, this match was brilliant!

A top 10 for sure. Damn, Lesnar came back to work two matches in 2012 and he's in my top 10. That's freaking impressive. 

★★★★


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Finlay/JBL Belfast Brawl from Mania 24. DAT TRASH CAN SHOT.


That's one of my favorite openers ever. Such a fun match to kick off my favorite Mania.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Perhaps I should give Brock/Trips another watch?

I remember being rather underwhelmed with the show as a whole after Jericho/Ziggler and I was in bad back pain at the time so many it skewed my perception but I just remember not liking it the way I really enjoyed Cena/Lesnar.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WM 24 is GOAT

Finaly/JBL 
MITB
Flair/HBK
Cena/HHH/Orton
Mayweather/Show
Taker/Edge

Jesus Christ, what more can I ask for? And putting Flair/HBK was a great idea and made perfect booking sense. At the time, I was like "WTF? So early" but I understand things better now and looking back on it, it was truly the best way to end the first half of the greatest Wrestlemania of all time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Brock/HHH had good moments, pretty much anything after the table spot and HHH exploiting the stomach injury. Brock sold the pain as well as he did the few comebacks Cena made at ER, just enough to look ferocious as a monster but recognising pain and realising he might be in for a bigger battle than he anticipated. Still, the few good moments just didn't really feel enough to make it a great match. Pace was plodding, they tried to sell HHH as being in some potentially dangeorus environment but had Brock work a more methodical and less unhinged assault like he did at ER, basically it just came off to me as them trying to sell the story of Brock being a monster and HHH being in a perilous position but not committing to truly working a match that reflected that story. HHH never looked as helpless and overwhelmed as Cena, and that just took me out of the match.

Whilst we're discussing Finlay, people need to watch the Matt Hardy match from Smackdown '07. Its amazing and will definitely be on my ballot for the best of the decade poll:



> *Matt Hardy vs Finlay - (WWE Smackdown 06/22/2007)*
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=2#.UO3Nm3cybk8
> 
> ...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> WM 24 is GOAT
> 
> Finaly/JBL
> MITB
> ...


Completely agreed. It's my favorite show of all time. (Y)

Only wish Batista/GOAT would have been better. Give it a gimmick and it's amazing, imo.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wish I could have appreciated Matt's work at the time but Jeff was always the more charismatic one, you know?

A match I was watching the other day (not really a great match by any mean) that really made me say "Damn, Matt was a gem of a worker" was a match he had with Orton on RAW in '08 the night of Flair's Retirement. 

Not to mention his encounters with Edge. That steel cage match is definitely one of the best.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Matt was a great worker between 05-08. He really made the Edge matches spectacular imo with his selling and expressive performances, though Edge does put in one of his most impressive performances at Summerslam with how violent his assault of Matt is. He's never struck me as a guy who had particularly great offence, but everything from his headbutts to his kicks to Matt looked great. Hardy's selling topped it, but he's truly overlooked when it comes to selling and for me he's far greater than Jeff at it. Jeff bumps and ragdolls, but Matt will bump well but really pull you into his matches with his long term selling. He's also really astute at pacing and structuring his matches and has some pretty choice offence of his own.

Shame people remember him for the bumbling madman he became on Twitter, rather than the promising worker he was for 3 years before his weight issues and mental breakdown.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I always preferred Matt even when they were a tag team. Didn't give a flying fuck about Jeff at any point of his career lol.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Selling is the single most important aspect of pro wrestling, especially when you're the babyface. As a babyface, you're main objective should be to sell. A lot of babyfaces just don't understand or maybe they just don't know, just how damn important it is to sell. That's why the business suffers from a lack of good babyfaces. As a bayface, your selling, which goes beyond just holding the limb for 2 seconds, is what gets you over. Selling isn't just holding your arm for 2 seconds when it's kicked. Selling is in the facial expressions, it's in your body language, you shouldn't be doing leap frogs over the turnbuckle 20 minutes into a match cause obviously you can't be that hurt! The key to being a good babyface is to sell. Not do a bunch of cool looking moves. There's an old saying "If you're the babyface you can lose every match, but once you know how to sell, you're a superhero" 

Selling is what makes or breaks a match for me cause selling is what creates the suspension of disbelief. Great selling creates the illusion, the magic that is pro wrestling.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Brock/HHH had good moments, pretty much anything after the table spot and HHH exploiting the stomach injury. Brock sold the pain as well as he did the few comebacks Cena made at ER, just enough to look ferocious as a monster but recognising pain and realising he might be in for a bigger battle than he anticipated. Still, the few good moments just didn't really feel enough to make it a great match. Pace was plodding, they tried to sell HHH as being in some potentially dangeorus environment but had Brock work a more methodical and less unhinged assault like he did at ER, basically it just came off to me as them trying to sell the story of Brock being a monster and HHH being in a perilous position but not committing to truly working a match that reflected that story. HHH never looked as helpless and overwhelmed as Cena, and that just took me out of the match.


Agree with this, pretty much all the way. The match got much better after the Lesnar table spot, but before that it was getting pretty bad imo, with the only redeeming part of that match to that point being Lesnar taking off the gloves, which was awesome, but was a gem in a pile of shit... well... pile of shit is being harsh since I don't think the match was THAT bad to that point, but you get the idea. 

I just don't understand how people put it at ****+ (not to say anyone who ranks it that high is wrong, I just don't understand from my personal experiences watching the match). It was much tamer than Brock/Cena in the brutality aspect. It pales in comparison to the storytelling of Taker/HHH, I don't think the action and psychology was anywhere near as good as Punk/Bryan OTL, and it wasn't as hard-hitting as Show/Sheamus HIAC imo. Now granted, I'm using some of the best matches/the best match from those respective categories, but still nothing stood out in the match to me as exceptional besides Lesnar's selling of the stomach. Everything else just felt weak to me. And then you add what WOOLCOCK said, and the match just ends up being a lot more disappointing than it could've been.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Selling is what makes or breaks a match for me cause selling is what creates the suspension of disbelief. Great selling creates the illusion, the magic that is pro wrestling.


Pretty much. Selling is what invokes drama, emotional investment and which drives the comeback and heat section to greater levels. As you mentioned though, its important to understand the depth in great selling. Its not just selling a limb like your life depends on it, its knowing how and when to react with your mannerisms and facial expressions. Selling the desperation to mount a comeback, selling the anger and fire in your comeback with well executed but energetic offence, as a heel you need to know when to shift your emotions, when to be cocky, arrogant, angry, fearful and eventually desperate.

It annoys me when people think selling and storytelling only lends itself to limbwork and heat sections. Storytelling can come through the contrast in characters. Take World of Sport for example. Mostly pure grappling, but numerous guys are presented as better grapplers and that creates an underdog/hierarchy where you can root for one guy to score an upset. The Brits also don't get enough credit for how they time the grappling, the running of the ropes and the nearfalls to create the drama. I don't know how anyone could watch Steve Grey vs Clive Myers, essentially the British precursor to Flair/Steamboat and not pick up on the storytelling and character dynamic pitting the working class and humble Grey against the international superstar in Myers.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Undertaker vs Batista - WM23 - **** 1/2

Watched this match for the first time since it aired, love it, some great work by Batista(yeah i know lol), one of the first bumps 'Taker takes where he crashes over the steps too, the spot through the announce table, all the big moves come out to play, i just wished it went a bit longer, like Batista had kicked out of the tombstone and just made it laster another 5 mins or so, i know it wasnt the main event (again) but hey-ho, looking forward to the other matches in their series now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)*
Talked about putting together a complete list of all the really good matches this year and I think this is good enough to be on it. Really fun TV title match with a hot crowd. Good use of the TLC stip as nothing seemed overly contrived and the environment covered for Ryback's limitations. Thought Punk trying to fuck up Ryback's leg only to mess up his own knee was great (Punk sold it well). Also dug the setup for the spot where Punk went through the table. That could've easily been one of the overly contrived looking spots we see all too often in this type of match but Punk hitting the high knee twice because the ladder was useless made sense. The actual bump Punk took that broke the ladder was cool too. The interference finish was expected so didn't really take away from the match for me. Ryback looked fine in what is definitely his best match so far and Punk worked the impressive, resourceful but lucky heel champion role nicely. Good stuff. 

The List:

1. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)

Will watch Cena/Ziggler later to see if it's worthy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Ziggler was alright but the amount of things Cena kicked out of is just ridiculous and had me shaking my head at the end of it all. I guess they were making a statement that 2013 is going to be Cena's year but fuck, they didn't have to render Dolph's offence completely meaningless to do it and I'm not even a Ziggler fan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So far I've watch EVERY televised WWE and TNA match. Did you know there are now SIX WWE shows a week? Fucking SIX. MOTY so far for me is TLC at ***1/4. TONS of shit under * lol. The year hasn't gotten off to a great start, though it has only been a week . Planning on continuing to watch everything in order to keep a full list of every match so when the end of the year comes I can actually put together a decent list of shit . Also keeping a note of promos and storylines too. Got a whole one promo so far on my list, shame Rock had to ruin part of it though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

While we're on the topic of selling, Punk/Ryback. No. Just no! I hated that match. Hated it watching it live. Couldn't get into the match at all. Why? Piss poor selling. The selling was fine on Punk's end. It's Ryback who stank up the joint. I can't understand why Punk would even allow Ryback to just get back up like that after repeatedly hitting him in the leg with the chair. I had it at 2 stars but fuck it! ★1/2 And that's mostly for the awesome ending.

Another important aspect of selling- GETTING TO YOUR FEET. Once you get to your feet and begin your firery comeback that's when the selling ends cause that's when the heat segment ends cause that's when it's time to send the fans home with your babyface comeback.

If you notice most matches, when the babyface gets to his feet (after a heat control segment) he may start throwing punches and in between he will hold the arm (if it was the arm being worked) and the heel would just yank it and get him back down. That's the basic short comeback there. There's more complex ways to do it but at the end of the day, the ensures that the babyface gets back down on the mat and starts back selling.

From the moment you get to your feet and start doing jumping jacks, then you've broke the illusion and my disbelief is no longer suspended. Which was the case of Ryback. Punk's working that leg like a motherfucker and Ryback gets up and begins a fiery comeback. When you do that (as we saw with Punk last night) you then have to re-work the heat segment to try to gain the babyface some sympathy. It's stupid and it's bad storytelling imo and is one of my biggest irks in pro wrestling. 

Despite being one over motherfucker, Ryback still has a lot of work to do. I'm not a critic of his in-ring work because he can't go 20 minutes. Please, that means fuck all at this point. I'm not a fan of his work for that bullshit he pulled last night. And again, why would Punk allow it? He had to re-work his entire segment and in the end the chair shots to the leg were more aesthetics because it really had no impact on the match whatsoever. It's just a bad match in my books.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock/HHH was never going to be Brock/Cena. They probably shit themselves after watching that thing back and seeing how barbaric it was lol. Matches like that aren't supposed to happen in 2012 WWE. Brock's focus was entirely on the arm. He went in with the intentions of inflicting as much pain on that arm as possible so that he could break it again. Everything he did in the match was targeted to the arm from the second the bell rang. He focused his attack on the arm and nothing else. Trips sold the arm like a boss. He found the weakness in Brock's stomach and everything he did after that was focused on Brock's stomach. Brock sold the stomach like a boss. The added concern of Heyman was GOAT. 

Those are just some of the reasons why I loved it and why I rate it so highly. It really is a marmite match though, that much is for sure lol.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

If you went into Brock/HHH expecting Brock/Cena, then you already set up yourself for disappointment. One of the most brutal matches of all time in that Brock/Cena.

But I found Brock/HHH to be brutal in its own right. As Starbuck said, things like Brock constantly attacking the arm. I mean that was the story of the match. And the finish was just the icing on the cake when you take into consideration all the arm work and Trips' selling.

Plus the match was hardcore in its own way too. I found Brock jumping off the table to be a cool and innovative spot which I'm sure he did on the spot and was not planned in the back. 

Plus, DAT FINISH. Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry bout that but the finish was beast and is one of the best finishes to a match I have ever seen. I really thought they were going for the played out "Cover! Cover! 1, 2 noooooo!" but holy shit did it catch me off guard. The match put of Lesnar as a beast too. Fuck the match was great!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock buried the Pedigree. Is that even possible?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

At this point and time in the career of DUR GAME it is impossible to bury the pedigree. If anything it just showed how difficult Brock is to put down.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH should have used the AA. He might have won then 8*D.

Oh hey, talked about RR 94 in my blog today .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HHH/Brock was "meh". To think Vince is paying Brock $4-$5 million for one year, and that is one of the two matches he got out of him is downright HILARIOUS.

gotta love DAT SENILE :vince


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cal has a blog?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> HHH should have used the AA. He might have won then 8*D.
> 
> Oh hey, talked about RR 94 in my blog today .





> Savage and Yoko are the last 2. Savage goes for a pin. Yoko throws him off and he goes over the ropes. LOL.


Was that Savage pin intentional so Yoko could eliminate him in that way or did Savage just fuck up and totally forget it was a Rumble lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cal has a blog?


AARRRGGHHHHHHHH.



zep81 said:


> Was that Savage pin intentional so Yoko could eliminate him in that way or did Savage just fuck up and totally forget it was a Rumble lol


Not sure if serious...

.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> AARRRGGHHHHHHHH.




When I clear my funds so I know what I have left over, I'll order Memphis & Mid South from you to make up for this. Well not for this exactly, you just have earnt my money is all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just me thinking of a rational explaination to Savage's memory loss lol!! What was he thinking...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> While we're on the topic of selling, Punk/Ryback. No. Just no! I hated that match. Hated it watching it live. Couldn't get into the match at all. Why? Piss poor selling. The selling was fine on Punk's end. It's Ryback who stank up the joint. I can't understand why Punk would even allow Ryback to just get back up like that after repeatedly hitting him in the leg with the chair. I had it at 2 stars but fuck it! ★1/2 And that's mostly for the awesome ending.
> 
> Another important aspect of selling- GETTING TO YOUR FEET. Once you get to your feet and begin your firery comeback that's when the selling ends cause that's when the heat segment ends cause that's when it's time to send the fans home with your babyface comeback.
> 
> ...


Disagreed. It's Ryback. He's been booked as an absolute monster and I don't think Punk's offense was _that_ focused that it required a great deal of selling. I'll concede Ryback's selling could've been better but I didn't think it was atrocious or a massive detriment to the match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ryback/Punk was a mish-mosh of shit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Was about to say finally someone else agreed with me on Punk/Ryback but then I realized it was Show stopper who, no offense, hates every goddamn thing about today's product.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I missed the RR talk, but these are the matches I have seen:

*RR '92* *****
*RR '93* ***1/2
*RR '94* ****
RR '95 - remember watching but re-watch needed **1/2
RR '98 ***1/2
RR '99 ***
RR '00 ***
RR '01 **1/2
*RR '02* ****
RR '03 - ***
*RR '04* ****1/2
RR '05 ***
RR '06 ***1/2
RR '07 - ***
RR '08 ***1/2 
RR '12 ***

The ones in bold are my favourites, can't pick just one. Will be seeking out the others, bar the ones from the 80's.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Ryback/Punk annoyed the crap out of me to be honest. Like sharkboy said earlier, Punk does a fantastic workover of the leg and I'm sort of hoping Ryback will sell it, but nope, immediately after the workover Ryback gets right back up like the leg workover never happened. I understand that Ryback's supposed to be an unstoppable monster but can we get some fucking logic.

The pure fact that punk got a **1/2 match out of Ryback is purely based off Punk's performance. Punk sold the injured knee brilliantly, the climb up the ladder with one arm dragging himself up the ladder to get the title was awesome. 

Ryback just pisses me off to no end....he obviously has passion for the business but the pure fact that he can't put a decent match together is infuriating.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> WM 24 is GOAT
> 
> Finaly/JBL
> MITB
> ...


Mayweather/Show is hands down the best celebrity-wrestler match ever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I didn't think Ryback/Punk was that bad


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ryback is a big scary monster. I get that. No sell some punches to the head. Heck, no sell some kicks to the leg. He got some big ass legs. Would take about 100 kicks to get him down. But not 50 steel chair shots to the ankle. Just no. Do not no sell 50 chair shots to the leg. If 50 chair shots to the ankle can't, then at this point, absolutely nothing will. 

Ryback/Punk is an awful match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

His selling might suck but it was more entertaining than your run-of-the-mill Raw match. I'd take it over the weekly Sheamus/Show/Del Rio/Orton squashes.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's not a good match. I mean, if all it takes to make a match entertaining is some high spots and black lights then be entertained. But for me, the moment Ryback got up after it's like "Well fuck that! We could end this shit here"

I still maintain my one and a half snowflake.

Like I said, if a match has shitty selling then how the hell could it ever be a good match? Selling makes or breaks a match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Some pretty fun matches from watching 1995 nitros aand the start of 1996 nitro's

Guerrero vs LORD Steven Regal was a nice little match with Regal dominating the whole match with Eddie escaping with the win.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> Some pretty fun matches from watching 1995 nitros aand the start of 1996 nitro's
> 
> Guerrero vs LORD Steven Regal was a nice little match with Regal dominating the whole match with Eddie escaping with the win.


Guerrero vs Regal? :mark:

Gonna check that one out. As soon as I'm done listening to Eye of The Tiger which for some strange reason I just had this craving to listen to lol.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Surprised at the feedback for Ryback/Punk. I thought it was a fantastic TV match and an early TVMOTYC. Punk sold the injured knee like a champ, Ryback took some decent bumps, innovative moves, and a great ending (although somewhat predictable). ***3/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Bishoff: royal fumble 

:lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If you haven't seen it yet, Arn & Vader vs Stars n Stripes Saturday Night 4/15 is a top 3 match from WCW for 1995. Fucking adore the match. 

I remember loving Flair/Giant from one Nitro in '96, can't go wrong with Benoit/Jericho 12/30/96 either.

Benoit/Eddie 10/16 and 11/18 are two of the best from '95 though. 10/16 is Nitro and 11/18 is Saturday Night. The powerbomb from Benoit to Eddie still haunts me everytime, probably the stiffest powerbomb in history.

Flair/Eddie 5/20/96 is excellent as well.

EDIT: Flair/Arn vs Hogan/Savage 1/8/96 Nitro, (Y). Such an overlooked tag but its ridiculously fun.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I've watched both Eddie/Benoit matches, both very good. As was Malenko/Guerrero (i think ) from 1995. havent seen the arn/vader vs stars stripes though. will have to find it. ill eventually get to flair/eddie too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

King Kenny said:


> I've watched both Eddie/Benoit matches, both very good. As was Malenko/Guerrero (i think ) from 1995. havent seen the arn/vader vs stars stripes though. will have to find it. ill eventually get to flair/eddie too.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...arn-anderson_sport?search_algo=2#.UO33dXcybk8

Took part in a WCW top 100 project last year, here's everything else I had from 1995 and 1996 in case it appeals to you:

Eddie Guerrero vs Shinjiro Ohtani, WCW vs NJPW, Starrcade 1995
Lord Steven Regal vs Fit Finlay, Uncensored 3/24/1996
Lord Steven Regal vs Sting, Great American Bash 6/16/1996
Scott Hall & Kevin Nash vs Randy Savage, Lex Luger & Sting, Bash At The Beach 7/7/1996
Rey Mysterio vs Psicosis, Bash At The Beach 7/7/1996
Lord Steven Regal vs Psicosis, TV Title, Nitro 12/16/1996
Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho, Fallbrawl 1996
Lord Steven Regal vs Fit Finlay, Parking Lot Brawl, Nitro 4/29/1996
Rey Mysterio vs Jushin Thunder Liger, Starrcade 12/29/1996
Chris Benoit vs Kevin Sullivan, Falls Count Anywhere, Great American Bash 6/16/1996
Dean Malenko vs Chris Benoit, Hog Wild 8/16/1996
Lord Steven Regal vs Dean Malenko, TV Title, Nitro 12/23/1996
Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon, Unification Match, Starrcade 12/29/1996
Lord Steven Regal vs Tony Pena, TV Title, Nitro 11/25/1996
Rey Mysterio vs Dean Malenko, Cruiserweight Championship, Halloween Havoc 10/27/1996


A couple I'm a bit iffy on now, moreso the Malenko matches, but I could see you digging most of that list (Y)


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I give Ryback/Punk **
The Shield power bombing Ryback would have been so much better had Ryback not been looking for the table the entire time. Three guys just beat you up and you are entirely alert? I have no confidence that Ryback could ever get a *** singles match with no gimmick.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Definitely. And that tag match is really fun. (Hogan/Savage vs Arn/Flair)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Sharkboy,

What can I say? I'm not a fan of shit served on a stick from a senile 70 year old man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My current 2013 RATINGS~! list:

CM Punk Vs Ryback - TLC Match - Raw 07/01/2013 - ***1/4
Dolph Ziggler Vs John Cena - Raw 07/01/2013 - ***
The Big Show & Antonio Cesaro Vs Randy Orton & Sheamus - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - ***
Team Hell No Vs Team Rhodes Scholars - Raw 07/01/2013 - **3/4
The Miz Vs Heath Slater - Smackdown - 04/01/2013 - **3/4
Kurt Angle & Samoa Joe Vs Aces & Eights - Impact Wrestling - 03/01/2013 - **3/4
James Storm Vs Kaz - Impact Wrestling - 03/01/2013 - **1/2
Gail Kim & Tara Vs Mickie James & Miss Tessmacher - Impact Wrestling - 03/01/2013 - **1/4
Madison Rayne & Tara Vs ODB & Mickie James - TNA Xplosion 02/01/2013 - **
Seth Rollins Vs Corey Graves - NXT Championship - NXT 03/01/2013 - **
Kid Kash Vs Christian York - Impact Wrestling - 03/01/2013 - *3/4
Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger Vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - NXT 03/01/2013 - *1/2
Randy Orton Vs Heath Slater - Raw 07/01/2013 - *
Sheamus Vs Jinder Mahal - Raw 07/01/2013 - 1/2*
Daniel Bryan Vs Heath Slater - Saturday Morning Slam 05/01/2013 - 1/2*
Prime Time Players Vs The Usos - Superstars 05/01/2013 - 1/2*
Eve Vs Kaitlyn - Raw 07/01/2013 - 1/2*
Bo Dallas Vs Epico - NXT 03/01/2013 - 1/2*
Wade Barrett Vs Yoshi Tatsu, JTG, Justin Gabriel, Kofi Kingston - Main Event 02/01/2013 - 1/2*
Kofi Kingston Vs The Big Show - Raw 07/01/2013 - 1/4*
Brodus Clay Vs Primo - Superstars 05/01/2013 - 1/4*
Antonio Cesaro Vs The Great Khali - United States Championship - Main Event 02/01/2013 - 1/4*
The Great Khali Vs Antonio Cesaro - Raw 07/01/2013 - 1/4*
Sasha Banks Vs Tamina - NXT 03/01/2013 - 1/4*
Layla Vs Tamina - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - 1/4*
Wade Barrett Vs Santino Marella - Raw 07/01/2013 - 1/4*
Kofi Kingston Vs Wade Barrett - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - 1/4*
Kane Vs Jinder Mahal - Saturday Morning Slam 05/01/2013 - DUD
The Great Khali, Hornswoggle & Natalya Vs Primo, Epico & Rosa Mendes - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - DUD
Hernandez Vs Joey Ryan - Impact Wrestling - 03/01/2013 - DUD


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm still yet to watch Dolph/Cena. What makes it ***?


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

King Kenny said:


> I'm still yet to watch Dolph/Cena. What makes it ***?


I have it at ****1/4* and it's really a mixed bag for me. Everything before the first commercial break is quite lackluster and the match just didn't flow well up to that point. After the break, the match switches it up a gear and it's just a great back-and-forth match were both guys bust a good portion of their movesets out in a sensible fashion. Cena's comeback also looked very organic and natural for once too. I can't say I'm a fan of Ziggler using his Zig-Zag and Superkick on a throwaway TV match though. All-in-all, there's some bad and there's some great stuff to be found here. 

I'm also a big fan of the Ryback/Punk TLC match (****1/2 *). It's a total carryjob by Punk, but he managed to get the match possible out of Ryback. I personally thought Ryback did a decent enough job of selling his leg, but I do think it's one thing that will stop me enjoying this match on a rewatch. A PPV quality match on free-tv now and then is always a good thing.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Title & Official Details of Mick Foley’s 2013 WWE DVD:

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/mick-foley-2013-wwe-dvd-title-details/33188/?wt=2


----------



## Sephiroth (May 27, 2006)

Can someone tell Vince to make a "Rise and Fall of Tony Schiavone"?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Alim said:


> Surprised at the feedback for Ryback/Punk. I thought it was a fantastic TV match and an early TVMOTYC. Punk sold the injured knee like a champ, Ryback took some decent bumps, innovative moves, and a great ending (although somewhat predictable). ***3/4


The feedback for it has been mostly good. Seen a bunch of ***3/4s and ***1/2s. Cal has it at ***1/4, I liked it a bunch.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Title & Official Details of Mick Foley’s 2013 WWE DVD:
> 
> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/mick-foley-2013-wwe-dvd-title-details/33188/?wt=2


Definitely getting this. Foley is my favorite wrestler of all time. I don't know why Sheamus was interviewed for this, though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Will be getting that Foley DVD. (Y)


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Also, I'm surprised Shane Douglas is on it considering all the stupid shit he's done and said about the WWE.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watched Cena/Dolph. It had its moments but it wasn't great. Doubt I'd ever watch it again.




Big Z said:


> My current 2013 RATINGS~! list:
> 
> CM Punk Vs Ryback - TLC Match - Raw 07/01/2013 - ***1/4
> Dolph Ziggler Vs John Cena - Raw 07/01/2013 - ***
> ...


(Y)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Also, I'm surprised Shane Douglas is on it considering all the stupid shit he's done and said about the WWE.


I think he's still friends with Mick and they were trained and broke into the business together. If Mick has a heavy hand in producing this set he may have requested for Douglas to talk about their start. WWE producers/Vince probably want Sheamus in there, though. He probably was a fan and respects Mick's work and WWE have to feature the obligatory current top star on every set.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Foley DVD :mark:

I lost my copy of the 'Greatest Hits And Misses' DVD a while ago which pissed me off, but will DEFINITELY be picking this up, can't wait.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anyone catch Main Event tonight? Apparently Ziggler and Sheamus had a 20 minute match. Gonna have to check that out.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Clique said:


> I think he's still friends with Mick and they were trained and broke into the business together.


I know that, but Douglas has talked a lot of shit about the WWE in the past, and he tried to "invade" Raw to promote his new promotion.



> If Mick has a heavy hand in producing this set he may have requested for Douglas to talk about their start.


Yeah, this is probably why and how he got on the DVD. Still surprised though.



> WWE producers/Vince probably want Sheamus in there, though. He probably was a fan and respects Mick's work and WWE have to feature the obligatory current top star on every set.


He could be a fan, but I've seen current guys be put in these things and they basically admit they don't know much about the subject.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Sometimes WWE will do business in spite of any past bad blood i.e. Russo, Sable, Lesnar, Hogan, Bischoff, Heyman, and so on. They've done it before and likely will do it again. I'm glad they sometimes try to make those efforts for the product's (DVDs or the TV show) sake.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Clique said:


> Sometimes WWE will do business in spite of any past bad blood i.e. Russo, Sable, Lesnar, Hogan, Bischoff, Heyman, and so on. They've done it before and likely will do it again. I'm glad they sometimes try to make those efforts for the product's (DVDs or the TV show) sake.


Yeah. That's one thing about Vince. Even though he may hate a person's guts, he will still try to to do business with them for the money and for the fans but often, the wrestlers he puts his pride away just to do business with doesn't want any part of it. Like Ole Anderson for example.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching Cyber Sunday 2007 and realized that Jeff Hardy and Ken Kennedy have a singles match against each other on it.

I'm officially in my own version of hell right now.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching Cyber Sunday 2007 and realized that Jeff Hardy and Ken Kennedy have a singles match against each other on it.
> 
> I'm officially in my own version of hell right now.



Didn't they feud? All I remember is that Raw match where Jeff almost broke his damn neck slipping off the top rope.


Tried to watch H.H.Helmsley vs Goldust for the IC title at RR '97. About 5 minutes into the match, someone on commentary let one rip and I couldn't take the match seriously after that. Hell, I'm laughing right now. :lol


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Just caught Charlie Hass vs. Shelton Benjamin from 17th April 2006 Raw: the one where Hass returned from no where.

Got to say i really enjoyed it, crowd were pretty pro Hass and they raised their games. Shame that the return of Hass came to absolutely NOTHING (didn't he start to impersonate other wrestlers the next year? :/

But the match is very good, Benjamin played the cocky heel really well and mocked RVD's moveset pretty well except for the VERY awkward looking Rolling Thunder.

****1/4*


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

SpookshowTony said:


> Tried to watch H.H.Helmsley vs Goldust for the IC title at RR '97. About 5 minutes into the match, someone on commentary let one rip and I couldn't take the match seriously after that. Hell, I'm laughing right now. :lol



I fucked up. It was their Wrestlemania 13 match. I confused the two.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Anyone catch Main Event tonight? Apparently Ziggler and Sheamus had a 20 minute match. Gonna have to check that out.


Sheamus vs. Dolph was a really good match, like they usually are between the two, but this time it wasn't Dolph beating up Sheamus for majority of the match only for Sheamus to make the comeback and Brogue Kick. It was pretty back and forth the entire time, until the finish, which could have been better. Other than that, really enjoyed it. There was a really cool spot where Sheamus went for the battering ram move and Ziggler leap-frogged countered it and landed on Sheamus skull. Botched facebuster perhaps.

Really wish these two would be given a proper feud, over the title. They had that short stint where Dolph replaced ADR at No Way Out, and for like 7 months now Dolph's received a billion Brogue Kicks, but still, that was always backseat to Sheamus feuding with ADR and Big Show. A proper feud. Because these two work damn good together in the ring.


----------



## Dusty Roids (Sep 14, 2011)

I fuckin hate cena. i was watching the rock's epic journey DVD and that fucking cargo jawed fuckhead appeared on it adding nothing and I say nothing to the DVD.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Ziggler/Sheamus was probably around the ***3/4 . It did have two ad breaks which hurt the flow for me.

Orton/Cesaro next week :mark:


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Dayum, that should be a good match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***3/4 for Ziggler/Sheamus Main Event too. Awesome match, current MOTY .


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

Just found a great Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs match ****1/4 - Capital Center, Landover, MD - January 18th 1986. This should have been on brets new dvd. 

Here's a link for a great review http://hitmanbrethart.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=reviews&action=display&thread=597
Link for the match (the date is wrong) http://fearofaghostplanet.com/hart-foundation-vs-british-bulldogs-11885/


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> ***3/4 for Ziggler/Sheamus Main Event too. Awesome match, current MOTY .


:mark: is it on youtube or dailymotion?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> :mark: is it on youtube or dailymotion?


Dunno. Have a look lol .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I tried but dailymotion's search engine is horrible. I'll download the full show.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> I tried but dailymotion's search engine is horrible. I'll download the full show.


Found it pretty easily 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...watch-online_sport?search_algo=2#.UO73iuQ01h0


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My review of the match:

Dolph Ziggler Vs Sheamus - Main Event 09/01/2013 - ***3/4

They do build up videos and shit before the match as usual. Then promos. Big E talks. He's terrible. AJ quoted something he said on twitter a couple of days ago and replied with "this is why we don't let you talk" :lmao. Sums up his promo here.

BATTERING RAM COUNTERED INTO AN X-FACTOR. FUCK YES. GOAT MATCH.

Cool spot . Really good match here. Dolph's control wasn't THAT different from the Cena match, but I was into it a lot more. Sheamus' comeback was real nice, and then they spent a good while at the end going back and forth without going into a full on finishing stretch which I liked. Why these two only got ONE PPV match last year boggles my mind, especially when Ziggler was just filling in for Del Rio who had like 6 PPV matches with Sheamus. These two have pretty awesome chemistry. And yet apparently we're getting Orton/Sheamus next instead. Urgh.

I've seen people complain about Ziggler "wasting" moves like the superkick and shit in his match with Cena as they only ended up as near falls. Here he busts out shit like the X-Factor counter, a top rope DDP and some other shit so he doesn't "waste" his bigger moves. He goes for a couple of them but Sheamus dodges every time, before finally decking Dolph with a Brougue Kick that sends Ziggler out of the ring for a countout loss. Definitely the current MOTY. A step up from the Cena match on Raw, and a step up from the TLC match too. Just a great contest.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, that match sounds legit. Gonna give it a watch. Like Cesaro's feats of strength that seem to "WOW" me at least once per match, it seems Ziggler pulls out some crazy shit of his own each match to elicit the same reaction.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

That Big E promo was hilarious. Dude straights up reminds me of someone I knew in high school, from his goofy ass facial reactions to the way he talks.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching now. First time I've ever seen Main Event. Seems like a cool little show that gives matches good time. I'll have to start paying attention. Orton/Cesaro next week.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If someone on here ends up making a comp in the future from Main Event, I'm totally buying it. Punk/Sheamus, Cesaro/Kofi + Tag match afterwards, Miz/Ziggler, Cena/Sandow, Hell No/Rhodes Scholars, Sheamus/Ziggler, etc. Yeah, I want all that on dvd. (Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)*
Yeah this was great. Got plenty of time to develop into a lengthy hard-fought battle and both guys looked really good. I find a lot of Dolph's 15+ minute matches have this formula where they go through a feeling out process, then a methodical control segment from Ziggler which usually isn't all that engaging but it's solid enough to hold your interest, then all of a sudden the match bursts into life with really good back and forth action and a great finishing stretch. It's a pretty basic formula but Ziggler's ability to shine down the stretch with his bumping and athleticism really makes it work well. Dolph fighting unsuccessfully to avoid Sheamus' clubbing blows in the ropes was perfect for Sheamus' comeback and came off as one of the best versions of that offense to me. Nice little touch. Everything after the second commercial break is awesome. Lots of sweet counters and nearfalls. The finish is good too. Nice to see something different, they don't use good countout finishes often enough. PPV quality stuff.

The List:

1. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
2. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

You guys are making me want to check out that Dolph/Sheamus match.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Looking forward to Cesaro's Pudzianowski-like strenght next week.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ORTON-CESARO :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm going to need to watch DOLPH/Sheamus. I haven't seen Main Event before. I always forget it's on. Not even sure what time or channel it's on tbh. I will need to set a reminder for Orton/CESARO, though. That could be great, especially if they're given some time.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Orton/Cesaro sounds great. I'm both relieved and overjoyed at the build Cesaro is receiving. I really like what they're doing with Main Event as well. Strong matches and a lot of focus on the midcard. I thought it was destined to be the next Superstars/Velocity/Heat.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

As hard as I try, I struggle to watch a match with Sheamus and really enjoy it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

T-Bag said:


> As hard as I try, I struggle to watch a match with Sheamus and really enjoy it.


That's a shame because Sheamus is one of the best workers in the company right now.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I used to think Sheamus was garbage as well but he has definitely proved me wrong lately. I still can't stand his Cena-esque persona and shitty promo ability, but he's quite a beast in the ring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He's had some pretty DAMN good matches in the last year or so. His match with DOLPH at No Way Out 2012 was one of the most underrated contests of the year, and I can't fucking wait to watch the Main Event match once I'm done with NWO 2007. His matches vs Big Show and vs Bryan are some of the best contests of 2012 now.... Confident that a Sheamus-Orton match at Wrestlemania would fucking rule and most of that would be because of Sheamus, even though I'm a big time fan of FACE Orton.

NWO 2007 has such a kick-ass opener. Benoit/Hardyz vs MVP/MNM is basically a Benoit showcase where he destroys everybody for like 20 minutes straight. Mercury taps to the crossface in like a MILLASECOND. WATCH IT. Fuck I miss Benoit. **** 1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

T-Bag said:


> As hard as I try, I struggle to watch a match with Sheamus and really enjoy it.


I find this baffling. Sheamus has been the workhorse of the entire company for the last...7 months or so. Maybe longer. He's the only guy's whose matches on TV are worth seeing every week. He's great.

Orton vs Cesaro. I'm down. Only b/c it's desperately what Orton needs: a new opponent. Every Orton match is the same, so HOPEFULLY vs a new opponent that standard crap Orton formula won't go down. Cesaro is the man. If he can make tossing around Kofi Kingston watchable, than I'm sure he'll mold something worthwhile from the drone known as Randy Orton.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Toss Orton in the air for a VERY European Uppercut, plz.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Orton and Cesaro should have an exchange of European uppercuts at some point in their match next week.



Hailsabin said:


> I find this baffling. Sheamus has been the workhorse of the entire company for the last...7 months or so. Maybe longer. He's the only guy's whose matches on TV are worth seeing every week. He's great.


I think it's understandable if you just can't get into a wrestler's character it makes it hard for that person to get into his matches. I've read people say the same thing for guys like Cena or in your case Orton.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Batista vs Undertaker:

WM23 - **** 1/2
Backlash (LMS) - ****
Smackdown (Cage) - ***3/4 (could have been a bit more if WWE shown the full match)
Cyber Sunday - **** 1/4

Gotta watch the HIAC soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> I think it's understandable if you just can't get into a wrestler's character it makes it hard for that person to get into his matches. I've read people say the same thing for guys like Cena or in your case Orton.


Guess I got my Sheamus goggles on. b/c whenever he's on I'm always into his work. It's no secret I've been huge on the guy for years now.

Orton is a frustrating case. Used to be such a mark for him until late 2010. From then my interest has gone straight downhill. As has his work too, imo. Only matches that seem to be worth anything lately, ironically enough for the prior topic ^, vs Sheamus. Oh, and vs Kane. That deserves a mention. I liked all of their matches from 2012.

Other than vs Kane & the match vs Sheamus on Smackdown I don't think I liked anything else Orton did during 2012. Maybe one of the matches vs Danielson too. Nothing there anymore. Everything that was strong about him has evaporated.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Orton-Barrett Series SUCKS. Sucked in 2010, sucked in 2011, sucked in 2012, and I'm sure it will suck in 2013.

Just witnessed Finlay/Hornswoggle vs Boogeyman/Little Boogeyman. One of the worst matches I've ever seen, but it ALMOST (notice I said ALMOST) escapes DUD status due to JBL's GOAT commentary about how ridiculous and stupid it is :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I thought Orton/Barrett in 2011 was good, and their series in 2012 was decent as well. 2010 though was abysmal, but the more I think about it, I partly put the blame on that on the extreme focus of Cena in the feuds/matches that it overshadowed what Barrett and Orton were doing. That being said, I don't think the match quality in those matches was anywhere near as good as in 2011 or 2012, but they looked worse than they actually were.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I recall it being funny. And better than the WWE Tag & ECW Championship matches on the same show. 

I credit Finlay.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton/Christian 2011 anyone? Their matches at OTL, Summerslam and that one on SD were all fantastic. Orton also had that cracker with Cody Rhodes in late 2011. But yes, he was total shit all of last year. Seems like he just doesn't care anymore which is a shame. Maybe this heel turn will rejuvenate him. As a mark for the guy, I sure as hell hope so.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hm... is it just my pc, or did a page disappear from this thread?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope, it's the same for me too. Page is gone.

Orton vs Christian certainly was a highlight for Orton in 2011. It's why I decided not to crap much on his work that year. Feud sucked, but boy did all of their matches deliver. High energy and just so awesome. 2 PPV matches vs Punker I liked too. I'm one of the few who actually liked his match vs Miz @ Rumble 2011, Henry carried him to some good matches, & Orton vs Rhodes Street Fight from 11/4 owns. I do believe that's all he had going for him that year. Still, it blew away his 2012.

All I want is for him to actually have a personality again. I don't think a heel turn will magically do it. He needs to stop being awful first. Plain and simple. Cut the droll _"I don't play well with others"_ crap and get back to being COCKY. I just watched Orton vs Mysterio from No Way Out 2006 yesterday. Loved it. It was great. You know why? b/c of Orton's swarmy, disrespectful character. It was wonderful. He has the capabilities of pulling that out. Only it's fallen away. Why? I'll never know. You got to chuckle when going face hurts him so much. It doesn't fit. Although, I'll gladly take outlandish happy face Orton circa 2004 - early 2005 over what we have now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of Orton and shit matches (lol), I am NOT looking forward to this potential Sheamus feud. Sheamus I love, but Orton... urgh. Assuming he actually turns heel for it, he NEEDS to be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DIFFERENT in every conceivable way to make their matches work.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Match was terrible. Only two good things about it were Finlay's epic kick to LB's face while wearing Hornswoggle's hat, and JBL's EPIC commentary. I can't bring myself to give it anything higher than a DUD. Worst FINLAY match ever ? I do believe so 

Orton-Barrett in 2010 is the worst main event program there has been in quite some time..... Going through my head now to try and figure out what has been worse (I mean a feud with multiple MAIN EVENTS behind it).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Top 5 WWE workers right now in no order:

- Daniel Bryan
- CM Punk
- Sheamus
- John Cena
- Dolph Ziggler


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Speaking of Orton and shit matches (lol), I am NOT looking forward to this potential Sheamus feud. Sheamus I love, but Orton... urgh. Assuming he actually turns heel for it, he NEEDS to be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DIFFERENT in every conceivable way to make their matches work.


Fat chance of that happening at this rate. I'm hoping though.



KingOfKings said:


> Match was terrible. Only two good things about it were Finlay's epic kick to LB's face while wearing Hornswoggle's hat, and JBL's EPIC commentary. I can't bring myself to give it anything higher than a DUD. Worst FINLAY match ever ? I do believe so
> 
> Orton-Barrett in 2010 is the worst main event program there has been in quite some time..... Going through my head now to try and figure out what has been worse (I mean a feud with multiple MAIN EVENTS behind it).


At least it was meant to be a comedy match. It's why I don't have any HATE towards it like I do the other matches I listed from the PPV.

Diesel vs Sid matches from 1995 wins. Oh wait. No it doesn't. The worst main event program is Triple H vs Scott Steiner series. :lmao


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> Top 5 WWE workers right now in no order:
> 
> - Daniel Bryan
> - CM Punk
> ...


That's about right. If Christian and Mysterio were well they would be in there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton/Christian :mark:

First SD Match : **** 1/2*
Over The Limit : ***** 1/4*
Capitol Punishment : **** 3/4*
Money in the Bank : **** 1/2*
Summerslam : ***** 1/4*
STEEL CAGE : **** 1/2*

If I were to rank them it'd go like this ;

Over The Limit
Summerslam
Capitol Punishment
STEEL CAGE
Money in the Bank
SMACKDOWN

TOP FIVE WORKERZ TODAYYYYY

CM Punk
Daniel Bryan
John Cena
Big Show
Sheamus


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) @ Big Show getting a mention.

I'd toss in Cesaro on my list. He makes squash matches work every week. He's such a boss.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Clique said:


> That's about right. If Christian and Mysterio were well they would be in there.


Yeah. Hoping Cesaro and Ambrose have breakout years.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Steiner is GOAT. They should let Steiner come back and cut this promo on Raw.






DAT BURIAL


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When I say "Main event program" it requires the following :

- MULTIPLE PPV main events
- Main Eventing meaning absolute LAST match on the card (No Trips-Steiner  )

I'd put Diesel-Sid ahead of Orton-Barrett in every single conceive-able way. I actually really seem to like their Lumberjack match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> When I say "Main event program" it requires the following :
> 
> - MULTIPLE PPV main events
> - Main Eventing meaning absolute LAST match on the card (No Trips-Steiner  )
> ...


ahhhhh, that's semantics. I'm sticking with Triple H vs Steiner. They're so bad they rise above your guidelines. :hayley3

I'm in the minority when I say I like both Nash & Sid. But, I hated their matches. Soooo bad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a fan of Nash and Sid as well.

Orton-Barrett.... OH GOD. I'd actually put that below MIZ-CENA (who have had two PPV main eventing singles matches)....... MIZ VS FUCKING JOHN CENA!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You know KingofKings, I may be wrong on this, and please correct me if I am, but I have the strangest feeling you don't like the Orton/Barrett 2010 series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/Barrett matches never had a chance. Orton is dull as fuck, and Barrett is untalented AND dull as fuck.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm a fan of Nash and Sid as well.
> 
> Orton-Barrett.... OH GOD. I'd actually put that below MIZ-CENA (who have had two PPV main eventing singles matches)....... MIZ VS FUCKING JOHN CENA!


Sadly, Cena vs Miz stunk it up at WrestleMania which almost makes it a bit worse. Depending on who makes the claim. You know why I mean though. The severity of crap at WrestleMania - ENDING THE SHOW - tends to trump a bad Survivor Series main event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> You know KingofKings, I may be wrong on this, and please correct me if I am, but I have the strangest feeling you don't like the Orton/Barrett 2010 series.


:lol one of THOSE FEELINGS.

The same type of feeling whenever somebody mentions Punk and I just wait for *Choke2Death* to join the conversation and bury him in some way, shape, or form. I was waiting for him to post a "Top 5 workers in the company" just so he could BURY Punk some more 

PG Era Pairings that have main evented multiple PPVs :

- HHH/Orton
- Edge/Hardy
- Punk/Hardy
- Batista/Cena
- Orton/Barrett
- Miz/Cena
- Punk/Cena


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If Orton turns heel he better not bring back those control segments that consist solely of headlocks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got done writing about RR 95. An 8 year streak of the RR event having at least one awesome tag match on the show. Shame it ended there .


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Trips/Steiner is GOAT. They should let Steiner come back and cut this promo on Raw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Steiner is hilarious, but I hate his real voice.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Using my personalized *CAL SCALE *to rate *Cyber Sunday 2007*.

_CAL SCALE_

Long Shitty Segment : -1
DUD-* : -1
*-1/2 : -.5
* 3/4 - ** 1/4 : 0
** ½-** ¾ : .5
***-*** ¼ : 1
*** ½-*** ¾ : 2
****-**** ¼ : 3.5
**** 1/2 - **** ¾ : 5
***** : 6

Rey Mysterio vs Finlay (Stretcher Match) : *****

CM Punk vs The Miz : ****

Jeff Hardy vs Ken Kennedy : ****

MVP vs Kane : *½ **

Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels : **** ½*

Triple H vs Umaga (Street Fight) : **** ¾*

The Undertaker vs Batista (Special Referee Steve Austin) : ****** ¼

Overall Score : *7.5*

Great Show here. The last three matches are so great that coupled with the opener makes this one of the best PPVs of 2007. Trips-Umaga is probably my highest match ever that I don't have at 4 stars because SOMETHING keeps me from putting it there. HBK-Orton give us a sneak preview of their classic Survivor Series match, while Taker-Batista steal the show once again in their second greatest match.

Oh yeah, Mysterio-Finlay owned as a short little opener there. Punk-Miz was a COMPLETE carry job to a pretty MEH match due to Miz being unable to conjure up anything resembling good selling or good offense. Kennedy-Hardy was far superior than it had any fucking right to be, while MVP-Kane was complete fucking garbage.

Watch for the triple main event here. One of the better triple main events you'll find, especially on a B-Level show such as Cyber Sunday. Almost finished NO WAY OUT 2007 and then I have a choice between Summerslam and Unforgiven 2007, both of which I remember being absolute fucking GARBAGE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CAL SCALE. It's kicking off. Awesome.

Need to modify it this year. Will likely do something with it when I review the RR at the end of the month. Then I can use it on all the other RR events that I've been reviewing and rank them. LISTS. FUCK YEAH.

About to watch the 1996 RR to get a head start on tomorrow. On of my fav RR matches, hope it holds up. Undercard looks terrible aside from the wwf title match, but that's a match people either love or hate due to the very slow pace.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Undertaker vs Batista with Austin as special referee? Weird that I haven't seen this match yet. Sounds pretty promising. I'll check it out later.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's irrelevant said:


> The Undertaker vs Batista with Austin as special referee? Weird that I haven't seen this match yet. Sounds pretty promising. I'll check it out later.


My favourite match from their epic series. Barely behind WM as the best too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never seen that one. I don't care for the '97 Undertaker vs Bret matches, so I'm lukewarm. Slow pacing works for me. It only matters if the match is good. Which I don't consider the Summerslam & One Night Only matches to be. To my ultimate disappointment. It's ok, I got plenty of other Undertaker greatness for me to love out there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CAL SCALE-ING every single Wrestlemania when I go from I-XXVIII. In order to get to that point however, I must get through Unforgiven/Summerslam 2007, and Hell in a Cell/Survivor Series 2012 with TLC probably thrown in there once it's released on DVD. I find it's actually a brilliant way to rank PPVs. I just tinkered with it a little bit and decided to subtract points whenever there was something really shitty involved.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Recently picked up Cyber Sunday '07 as i've never watched it. I must say i'm looking forward to it after that review. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cody's new Finlay sig is SWANK, tbhayley.

Best 10 workers in the company in terms of pure ability (not in order):

Bryan
Punk
Cena
Mysterio
Sheamus
Christian
Bourne
Mcintyre
Regal
Henry

Christian/Orton is pretty much a two match series for me. First encounter on Smackdown and the rematch at OTL which is comfortably the best of their series. Everything after with Christian turning heel and being nowhere near as good as he is as a face worker, coupled with Orton being below average as a face worker..blurgghh. OTL had the best dynamic with Christian being the plucky underdog trying to outwrestle and break the preverbial glass ceiling in Orton.

Sheamus is probably a top 5/6 worker in the company atm, with Henry and Bourne both injured and Mysterio wasted with the horrendous Cara. He's a really underrated babyface in peril worker, structures his matches well and works a variety of matches very well: can brawl with Tensai, Show and Barrett, work quicker and more story driven matches with Bryan and Morrison and can even work agile sprints with someone like Ziggler. I still think his true test is to excel against someone like Cena or Del Rio, guys similar in size and style to him. I have no doubt he'll deliver against smaller or larger opponents, but the jury's still out on him vs a guy not too dissimilar to him imo. His performance against Morrison at TLC 2010 is still his absolute best imo. Such a wonderfully constructed ladder match full of smart pacing, structure, heat segment and timing all of Morrison's comebacks superbly so they came off as desperate and heroic instead of spotty.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Orton/Barrett matches never had a chance. Orton is dull as fuck, and *Barrett is untalented AND dull as fuck.*


:lmao :lmao :lmao



KingOfKings said:


> The same type of feeling whenever somebody mentions Punk and I just wait for *Choke2Death* to join the conversation and bury him in some way, shape, or form. I was waiting for him to post a "Top 5 workers in the company" just so he could BURY Punk some more


Is not praising him considered burying? :lol

Top 5 workers: (beware of my ignorance when it comes to some newer names such as Cesaro)

- Bryanson
- SH-SH-SHEIMOOOOOOOOSE
- RKO
- Fruity Pebble
- Kerwin White's Caddy

Would have also considered KIDD had he been given more of a chance to wrestle. From what little I've seen, he's absolute fire! And excluding Mysterio since he's way past his peak.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Looking forward to Del Rio/Show on tomorrow's Smackdown. Haven't seen Del Rio wrestle as a face but I think that could be a good dynamic.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Kidd's fine in his role of lowercard guy working great looking athletic spots, but he can't be called close to a 'great' worker at the moment for me. Not much depth to him outside of some really good offence, but for me Bourne is just as good at delivering spectacular looking offence whilst being able to bump, sell and build an all round match much better than Kidd. Not necessarily knocking Kidd, since he gets next to no opportunities and you can tell is just trying to catch the eye of management and the fans whenever he gets a chance to wrestle, but Bourne's far and away better than him on evidence so far.

Agreed *Saint Dick* , he hasn't really cut it as the heel worker so having him keep his signature offence and bump around a lot more could be a plus. He struck me as being a really underrated bumper and I think he could surprise a few people. Doesn't strike me as a natural babyface, but if they want to recreate more of a 'tougher' face like Orton I think he's definitely a far better bumper and got more impactful and creative offence than Orton.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Agreed *Saint Dick* , he hasn't really cut it as the heel worker so having him keep his signature offence and bump around a lot more could be a plus. He struck me as being a really underrated bumper and I think he could surprise a few people. Doesn't strike me as a natural babyface, but if they want to recreate more of a 'tougher' face like Orton I think he's definitely a far better bumper and got more impactful and creative offence than Orton.


Exactly. Some of the problems I had with Del Rio's matches will completely disappear now that he's a face. Show also strikes me as a good opponent for him.



Choke2Death said:


> Top 5 workers: (beware of my ignorance when it comes to some newer names such as Cesaro)
> 
> - Bryanson
> - SH-SH-SHEIMOOOOOOOOSE
> ...


nahhhh


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yup. He didn't do much wrong in terms of structure and ensuring things flowed well throughout a match, but he just didn't have the spark someone like Mcintyre did when working a control segment. Even someone like Miz in the NOC match vs Bryan had far more engaging limbwork, though I think part of the charm there was the novelty of fucking Miz working an interesting limb dissection + Bryan selling like an absolute champ.

Show's been good as the monster heel, though I'd kill to see Henry return and immediately pick up where he left off.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> nahhhh


yeaaaaaaaah.

I don't understand the Orton hate AT ALL. His character may be dull but his wrestling definitely isn't.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Different strokes for different folks. To me he's the proof that a formula really can kill a wrestler. He can sell an injury well, but I like a babyface to truly sell and make me invested in his beating and eventual comeback. Orton like a lot of WWE babyfaces has the typical string of moves comeback, but I don't think he sells, bumps or communicates sympathy nearly as well as someone like Cena, Mysterio, Bryan, Bourne or even Sheamus when he's being worked over and that's the difference imo.

Cena's comebacks can be pretty bad in terms of the way he effortlessly hits moves, but I regard that generally as a staple of the WWE babyface comeback and I focus more on his selling during the middle part of the match which I think he excells at. That's not to say the odd match and comeback from him isn't ridiculously bad in spite of his middle match selling, the I Quit match vs Miz immediately springs to mind there.

Also its not even 'hate' with Orton. He just elicits no response from me these days.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, I'm an Orton fan but his comebacks are ridiculous. Clothesline, clothesline, stand there, duck a clothesline, powerslam. Not to mention he seriously buries EVERY WRESTLER with constant offense whenever it's some sort of no dq/no holds barred, etc. Summerslam vs. Christian, Extreme Rules vs. Punk, & Extreme Rules again against Kane.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

To me, Orton is just there. I don't get excited when he appears on my TV screen, but I also don't change the channel. In other words, I couldn't give much of a fuck whether he comes or goes.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm a fan of Orton and he's great in the ring, but I'm not usually invested in his matches. Hell, I feel this "lull in time" during his matches only to snap out of it when he does the powerslam or "RKO from outta nowhere!"


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, unless there's a gimmick, most of his matches bore me to tears.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, unless there's a gimmick, most of his matches bore me to tears.



He needs to be sadistic with his moveset and body language.

It sucks because he almost made my top 10 wrestlers list. Big fan of his since his Evolution days, still am, but I don't know what the hell happened within the last few years. Maybe when he became "The Viper"?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think he's better suited as a heel. Never cared for face Orton.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I found Orton tolerable as The Legend Killer, even if he was given too much too soon. Apart from that, I've always found the guy dull. He's a decent wrestler and has a great look but he's like a plank of wood with tattoos. When they decided to turn him into The Viper, that was the final straw, I stopped watching altogether. That shit was _awful_. No way can I take a pretty boy like Orton seriously as some cold blooded psychopath. Nowadays the guy doesn't annoy me as much because he's just wandering around aimlessly, and that suits me fine.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Can't get behind face Orton. C'mon, he's a natural heel. Of course any positive reaction for the heels involves killing anything that made them interesting with a face turn. I'm fine with edgy faces/antiheroes, but there's no need for a character change. Seriously Vince, you were better than this. Someone should kidnap Vince, tie him up and toss him in the freezer that Paul Bearer still occupies.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Heel Orton loves him some rest-holds, though. It comes to a point where enough is enough.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nothing is worse than clothesline -> clothesline -> power slam -> draping DDT -> RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~! though.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Nothing is worse than clothesline -> clothesline -> power slam -> draping DDT -> RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~! though.



Those clotheslines look love taps.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hate Orton's clotheslines. He just kinda sticks his arm out and puts zero effort into it. More wooden than my cock during a Lita match.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Nothing is worse than clothesline -> clothesline -> power slam -> draping DDT -> RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~! though.


Or collectively, otherwise known as: :cole3 *VINTAGE ORTON*


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I hate Orton's clotheslines. He just kinda sticks his arm out and puts zero effort into it. *More wooden than my cock during a Lita match*.



:lmao

His clotheslines remind me of that Red Rover game. (that's the correct name, right?)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> To me, Orton is just there. I don't get excited when he appears on my TV screen, but I also don't change the channel. In other words, I couldn't give much of a fuck whether he comes or goes.


This. I don't know, he just strikes me as exceptionally plain atm. He's a solid worker with the ability to have really good matches with the right opponents but I definitely wouldn't call him great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The thing with Orton is, he's like two different people when you look at him from 2004-2006 and then compare it to the current day one. Along with that, he also comes across as different nowadays.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The {Clothesline > Clothesline > Clothesline > Spinning Powerslam > "That Place Where He Hears Voices" Seizure} combo is one of the worst things in wrestling.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's like an inverse relationship between # of tattoos and greatness. The more tattoos he got, the shittier he became. :bosh


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Nothing is worse than clothesline -> clothesline -> power slam -> draping DDT -> RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~! though.


I would take one thousand Orton-ups over the goddamned rest holds.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed. I believe he peaked as a character during the Taker feud in 2005.

Match wise I think he was better than ever in 2011. The only time I could really stand his in-ring character work since 2007 when he first started his "slow-walking" phase. I truly believe his character work as a heel from 2008-2010 was some of the worst main event character work in company history, just seemed so uninspired. When it came to his in-ring work, 2011 is his best year IMO.

Couple that with the fact that I only have like.. TWO Orton singles matches at ***** 1/2+* I can't really consider him an ELITE worker. Both of those matches are from far superior workers as well (Foley, Benoit). I still consider Orton to be a pretty good worker overall though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> It's like an inverse relationship between # of tattoos and greatness. The more tattoos he got, the shittier he became. :bosh


*Implying he was at his best around 2001 or whenever it was he debuted in OVW.* rton


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's almost like he had unlimited potential back in 04 as The Legend Killer and it just never really came to fruition.

edit that may be the case :side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton owned in '03-'06, some of '07 and most of '08. And then he started going downhill and today he's just so disappointing.

WWE would love to think otherwise though. As if his '09 run is special at all, let alone what WWE acts like it was.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> It's almost like he had unlimited potential back in 04 as The Legend Killer and it just never really came to fruition.


Blame DA GAME. 

Actually I blame whichever idiot thought it was a good idea to turn a cocky, pretty boy looking asshole to a bald-headed, druggie looking psychopath. I think he's done his job pretty well for the role he got after becoming the 'Viper' but he's just much better than that. Also wish he had never gotten those arm sleeves. The tribal tattoos were awesome and all he needed. Even if they have "absolutely no meaning" in his own words.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Nothing is worse than clothesline -> clothesline -> power slam -> draping DDT -> RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~! though.


Well that and shoulder block -> shoulder block -> side slam -> five knuckle shuffle -> AA OUTTA NOWHERE~! comes close.

:cena2

But I agree, Randy has become pretty formulaic with his signature moves. Still a capable worker and consistent technically with what he does. I'd say Alberto Del Rio is in the same boat being technically sound but missing an added element to make him more engaging to watch for the most part.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've tried to block that sequence of events out of my mind, Clique. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everytime Cena and Orton face off, it's just the WORST. They act as if Cena and Orton have this big storied rivalry with some of the greatest matches ever It's honestly more forced than any Trips/Orton or Trips/Shawn encounter that I've ever seen. SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS. 

Still think Triple H and Cena should have swapped spots for Wrestlemania XXV and we could have had Edge/Trips and Cena/Orton as main events, FAR MORE INTERESTING THAN TRIPS/ORTON FOR THE 30th FUCKING TIME. Plus, Cena-Orton would have been somewhat FRESH as a singular feud by then, unlike Trips-Orton, who wrestled two fucking singles matches on PPV less than a year before !

X2 What C2D said. Orton as a psychopath heel ? C'mon man...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Everytime Cena and Orton face off, it's just the WORST. They act as if Cena and Orton have this big storied rivalry with some of the greatest matches ever It's honestly more forced than any Trips/Orton or Trips/Shawn encounter that I've ever seen. SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.


I disagree. But I wont spoil too much since I'm only 3 matches away from finishing the series of FIFTEEN matches!

And fuck yes @ Orton/Cena main eventing WM25. But to HHH/Orton's credit, the build-up was great.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

As I mentioned pages back, its not like Cena's comebacks typically are that much better than Orton's in terms of offence and switching up the routine. However there's far more build and magnifying the comeback as a pivotal part of the match in the best Cena matches that really manages to overcome more often than not the flaws in his comeback. He bumps, sells and times his comeback so well generally coupled with a greater sense of speed and urgency that its formulaic approach doesn't come off as poorly as Orton's which often lacks the timing, the drama or indeed any real sense of accomplishment. Too often an Orton comeback feels effortless and more a mere progression into the finishing stretch. Whether the laid back and less frenetic approach is done to fit with the 'methodical Viper' I'm not sure, but it lacks the passion, fire and overwhelming drama that makes a great babyface comeback.

The likes of Steamboat, Lawler, Funk, Mysterio and many more typically didn't deviate from a set structure of offence in their comeback, it was their work beforehand in building and milking the eventual comeback that drew the fans into the match and subsequently brought more drama and accomplishment to the comeback. That's the difference to me between Orton and the better babyface workers on the roster.

* This also acknowledges that Cena's comeback can still be done in a rather shitty way, usually on throwaway TV matches and the odd PPV match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Everytime Cena and Orton face off, it's just the WORST. They act as if Cena and Orton have this big storied rivalry with some of the greatest matches ever It's honestly more forced than any Trips/Orton or Trips/Shawn encounter that I've ever seen. SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.


The best part about this is how the audience no sold their stare off which was suppose to be an "epic moment" in the Royal Rumble match a couple of years ago. Just DEAD SILENCE :lmao

Speaking of Rumble stare offs, I thought Taker & Show eyeing each other in the 2009 was awkward yet cool in how they built up confronting each other in the match. I thought they may feud after that they were so serious.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Blame DA GAME.


I would never. 

Cena's comebacks are fucking terrible on paper as well but his at least evoke a bit of a dramatic element when in the right environment and with the right opponent, whereas Orton's always seems to lack any sort of effort or real meaning beyond simply going through the motions.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Face Orton had one of my favorite matches of 2011 at Summer Slam against Christian. I have it at ****1/4. I loved it but that may be just me. I do think that Orton is a more natural heel but he can pull off being a face.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think Orton isn't bad as a face at all. As a matter of fact... Face viper Orton > HEEL viper Orton. ATLEAST HE SMILES AS A FACE 

Cena's comebacks don't piss me off at all. For as much shit as he gets, he knows how to pull off a comeback pretty damn well if you don't think or remember his Over The Limit Performance against THE JIZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Then again, MIZ in an I Quit match ? Ew.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cena's comebacks are probably worse than Orton's because I've been watching them forever. If Orton's babyface "That Voices Place" comebacks had started in 2006-7 I'd probably prefer Cena's because Orton's would actually be more tiresome. Cena also doesn't move around like a spastic being electrocuted during it. I'd still say Cena's comebacks can feel VERY, VERY effortless and he tends to get this random rush of adrenaline that I don't usually buy. I really don't think he's all that good at building them at all. I've barely felt any drama at any point in any Cena comeback and I'm usually lumped with the 'not this shit again' group who just never want to see him do that. Cena can excellent on the bottom but I don't love a lot of the stuff he uses to work his way upwards. 

Cena probably has my least favourite repetitive move-string of all time. I fucking cringed at the shoulderblocks, the clothesline-ducked slam thingy and the 5KS in 2007 and I fucking cringe at them in 2013.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I would never.
> 
> Cena's comebacks are fucking terrible on paper as well but his at least evoke a bit of a dramatic element when in the right environment and with the right opponent, whereas Orton's always seems to lack any sort of effort or real meaning beyond simply going through the motions.


As I said, its all down to the work in the middle section of the match. Selling the beating, making your situation look hopeless and desperate, milking the workover and timing certain mini comebacks to draw the crowd into your revival and then timing the comeback to illicit that reaction.

In many ways the best wrestling comebacks are the ones that play to a formula. It draws a viewer in because they know what's coming, seeing Lawler drop down the straps and unload with great punch after great punch was what every fan in the building wanted to see. Part of Lawler's innate charm is that he can work typically a very similar finishing stretch in most of his matches, built around punches, the fist drop and the piledriver but still find ways to sell and create an emotional attachment during the middle of the match so his comeback feels earned and more importantly something the fans want to see.

When you play to a formula you've got to be able to try and find ways to keep fans invested and interested in spite of not changing up the bulk of your final offence. Sadly Orton doesn't really create an emotional investment and his comebacks never feel like he's pulled the match back from the brink. This also stems from a lot of WWE heels today not really working a great control segment. Most of them feel like an extension of the match and just quietly progressing to the finishing stretch, rather than seeking to create heat on the heel and work the crowd into a frenzy.

@ Yeah1993: tbh I always look at the best Cena comebacks in the eyes of the young fans. Obviously stuff like the Lesnar match highlights how great he is at selling the beating and making you feel like any comeback is something truly earnt, but even at its worst I find at least a sense of urgency in his comeback rather than Orton's languid moving about the ring at a pace that kills any sense of excitement or unpredictability. Both suffer though from the heels of today being pretty piss poor generally at constructing a compelling heat segment. Is there a babyface going in WWE whose comebacks 90% of the time don't just feel like they're meandering into the finishing stretch? I want to say Rey because of the way he continually bumps and makes himself look so vulnerable, Christian as well as Masters probably fitted into that category when they were working TV every week as well. Last one I can really think of was Punk vs Henry and Sheamus vs Show HIAC in terms of a babyface clearly structuring the match around his comeback and onslaught.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena did a very good job of this against Lesnar.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yep and Lesnar near enough matched him in terms of putting on a compelling and gripping control segment that flowed brilliantly and built superbly into the Cena comeback and eventual victory. The problem with a lot of today's WWE matches is that they seem obsessed with perfecting the finishing stretch that very little before it seems to matter. The heels tend to run through an array of basic holds and there never really feels like anything dramatic will develop in the middle, but rather its just a placeholder before the quick comeback and counter-heavy finishing stretch.

Compare Christian and Masters and how they're matches were built around the necessity and struggle in making a comeback compared to your typical match today where there feels like very little of note happens before the finishing stretch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lesnar might be the only individual BADASS enough to make the crowd actually CHEER Cena and provoke a Super-Cena like comeback. Think about it ; How fucking good is Lesnar at his job that he can come back as such a huge name and still get heat IN CHICAGO AGAINST JOHN FUCKING CENA ?!?!?!

Fucking BROCKTAGON. Best in the FUCKING World when he wants to be.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Comparing most people's babyface comebacks to Jerry Lawler's really doesn't do them any good. Cena looks like the Ultimate Warrior in comparison.

I feel like Cena's comebacks are often out-of-the-blue and pop up to 'get to the finishing stretch' a lot of the time. I just hate it. Like I said he's actually really good working AT the bottom and slowly moving his way upwards with the Bob Backlund-like power spots (usually without actually getting the advantage), but when he's transitioning from selling ----> signature moveset, and doing the moveset itself....fuck it. I don't want to watch that.

IDK how invested he really gets THAT MANY of the fans. You get so many of them booing at that particular moment that it's become a running joke for seven years and one of the main things he's targeted for. Orton's usually doesn't have that kind of response, even if it's just as shitty/even shittier.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Can't decide which is my pick for GOAT Heel control segment in the WWE ; HHH from HHH-Jericho FL 00, or BORK's awesome control segment from Extreme Rules 2012. They're almost tied for me honestly. Trips's dissection of Jericho is something to behold in that match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I was just using Lawler more as an argument that a formulaic comeback that plays to patented signature spots and offence can still be really engaging and a bonus of a match, so long as the work before it is good enough to make the comeback feel earnt and not something easily achieved.

I think its just a stylistic preference tbh. Cena's comebacks at their worst are ridiculously bad and lacking in drama or any sense of accomplishment, but I dunno I'd rather watch Cena's worst comeback than Orton's worst comeback just because I find Cena a more expressive performer compared to Orton and his languid, monotone and uninspiring comebacks.

Really could do with better heels these days, because you're right that Cena's strength lies in making his struggle one that grows over the course of the match and peaks at his comeback. Most WWE matches these days are either rushed or built solely around the finishing stretch that the most important section of the match (the middle) gets overlooked and basically consisting of little more than slowing the pace and waiting for the finishing stretch.

Its a shame as well how different the WWE TV style of matches is going. I remember back in 06 on Smackdown you'd get a real solid structure building to the transition spot, the heat segment and the finishing stretch. Today you've got commercials 2/3 minutes into a match, no real build or pacing to the transition spot (and its not like they even do many impressive transition bumps anymore) and the whole flow of a match as a result really suffers.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Might need to conjure up Yeah1993's post about why HHH = GOAT from the GOAT thread to help you make your decision.

edit Yeah1993


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

best heel segment was by triple H

either in one of his matches vs flair or summerslam vs eugene


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Summerslam vs Eugene is so awesome :lmao


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

the whole heel thing is dying concept

not enough wrestlers are dicks anymore. they just cheat. fuck off, eddie G cheated and he was epic

JBL and trip had the 'acting like dicks' thing mastered like an art. they didnt just beat the shit out of someone in a match, they degraded them


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Savage in his matches with Steamboat was excellent heel work. Hell, Savage's extensive control segment is the primary reason the main event at WrestleMania 5 with Hogan was so good.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Pretty much Redead. Nothing gets the time to flow or develop anymore. Everything's either rushed to make time for a segment or they just milk the middle section of the match with basic holds and no real development and just rely on a couple of eye-catching counters in the finishing stretch to rescue the match. Even looking back at someone like Mcintyre in 2010 and how much he'd get out a control segment. A structure and flow was created, things mattered and were built to, the comeback felt like something special because of the work Mcintyre put in to keeping control and everything just felt cohesive and meaningful.

Nowadays they cut to commercial at the beginning of a match or even worse during the heat segment and return minutes before the babyface comeback. Matches as a whole just struggle to build into a clear 3 part arc at the moment. Its one of the reasons I'm still far lower on Ziggler than others. His matches just don't feel important or impactful until they hit the finishing stretch and start trading counters.

@ Clique. Can't forget the 1985 LLT match vs Lawler either. Savage works so well as the maniac mangling Lawler that the clear build and payoff manages to be one of the most emotional and engaging comebacks in Lawler's career, like he literally has a now or never moment to win the match or concede his career to this rambling lunatic who'll probably castrate you if he sees fit, let alone pin you.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i cant watch wrestlemania 5's main event

its one of the few matches that hurts me to watch

so much work, so much effort, so much damage, it was so good..... and then hogan doesnt give a fuck, comes back, 1,2,3 and boom, takes a giant shit on around 20 minutes of work by savage.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed w/ Redead on the JBL/Trips mastery. 2004-Early 2005 was some awesome character work both on the mic and in the ring. JBL goose stomping in Germany is FUCKING PRICELESS. Trips was getting EPIC heat due to BURYING accusations as well as BEATING UP RETARDS.

Agreed w/ Clique as well. Both Wrestlemania V and III had such good Savage matches due to his ability to immerse himself into a character, but where WM III was about the Steamboat comeback and nearfalls throughout the match, WM V was all about the Savage control segments, which garnered mad heat and made Hogan look like a BO$$ in perhaps Hogan's best match ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I can finally claim to have watched the entire Batista/Taker series as I had CS still left. Am a bit sleepy but I did manage to watch the whole match.

WM23 - ★★★★½
BL - ★★★★
CAGE - ★★★¾
CS - ★★★★
SVS - ★★★½


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Anyone else with wcw 1995-1996 love?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> Anyone else with wcw 1995-1996 love?


Hi . Love the undercard in 95/96 during the Nitro days. Main event usually sucks balls. Not even Flair could make much out of Hogan, Sting, an over the hill Savage etc.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I've been enjoying the undercard more now. When I was younger I was a mark of STING, GOLDBERG etc...DDP too.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i just discovered hogan/bret, austin/savage and hhh/steamboat all happened 

was blown away


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Pretty much Redead. Nothing gets the time to flow or develop anymore. Everything's either rushed to make time for a segment or they just milk the middle section of the match with basic holds and no real development and just rely on a couple of eye-catching counters in the finishing stretch to rescue the match. Even looking back at someone like Mcintyre in 2010 and how much he'd get out a control segment. A structure and flow was created, things mattered and were built to, the comeback felt like something special because of the work Mcintyre put in to keeping control and everything just felt cohesive and meaningful.
> 
> Nowadays they cut to commercial at the beginning of a match or even worse during the heat segment and return minutes before the babyface comeback. Matches as a whole just struggle to build into a clear 3 part arc at the moment. *Its one of the reasons I'm still far lower on Ziggler than others. His matches just don't feel important or impactful until they hit the finishing stretch and start trading counters.*


Not sure if you saw it but I alluded to this in my review of Sheamus/Ziggler from last night's Main Event. I like Ziggler though and I think he brings a lot more than most guys on the roster to his finishing stretches and sequences so I'm cool with it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Saw Hogan/Bret from Nitro.

IT'S GARBAGE. Hogan REAAALLLYYY fucking sucked in WCW, like.... WORST wrestler in the world bad. He did nothing but back rakes in some of his matches FFS!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cody's new Finlay sig is SWANK, tbhayley.
> 
> Best 10 workers in the company in terms of pure ability (not in order):
> 
> ...


Finlay SWAG tb:hayley1

I might be alone, but I never found the first Christian vs Orton match in May to be very exceptional. It's good, but nothing to a point that did much for me. It's all about Over The Limit which was far and away too good for words. I enjoyed the rest of the series. Summerslam is a vague memory though. I know I considered MITB their weakest match. Only liked Christian winning, despite the crap "burial" by having Orton to remain looking strong post-match. Hate that garbage. Cage was a ton of fun. I'll always stand by the fact that turning Christian heel in 2011 was such an asinine move. There was a reason why fans put their first two matches - Over the Limit the consensus - as the best matches. Christian was a face. It was the better move and didn't have a taint of Orton's face work towards Christian's random & unconvincing heel alignment.

(Y) @ name dropping Tensai in the list for Sheamus. I really, really liked their bout from Smackdown on 8/3. It's so good. On the level I knew those two could give with 9 minutes. Has to be the best Tensai match since his WWE return.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Tensai still sucks though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I firmly disagree. I'm one of his only supporters though. Now that's a dislike I totally don't understand.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

He just sucks. Such a terrible gimmick too.

Back onto 1996 nitro's. 

Public Enemy vs American Males was a decent match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ahhhhhhh, I like his gimmick. Beastly American that ruled in Japan. It's pretty legit, tbhayley. I blame all crap he gets on WWE. When he's been given the ball, he's delivered. He needs another match vs KANE.

American Males. Now that's a terrible gimmick.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

It was a decent match though. 

I just don't like Tensai. He's FAT :steiner


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never liked Riggs. I liked BUFF during some his young face days.

FAT? I like to think HUSKY fits better. Anything for a Steiner reference though. MEXICO NORTH.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Macho Man vs Ric Flair to start off a Nitro, and new champ Macho Man.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fun match. It's on Savage's DVD set. Leading up to Superbrawl in the CAGE.

Get ready for that Hogan vs One Man Gang main event on the same Nitro. Oh boy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm currently watching Malenko vs Brian Pillman


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another match that made a DVD set. And yes, you should go buy the Brian Pillman - LOOSE CANNON set asap. It's brilliant.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Might download it. 

Man watching these nitros brings back so many memories.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

They're incredible nostalgia trips. Hearing TONY SCHIAVONE welcome us to another telecast of the #1 wrestling program in the world is so much fun. TELECAST.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:

Lex Luger/Sting vs Harlem Heat, another decent match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do you have the Clash of the Champions the following night of that Nitro downloaded too?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Nope, but I probably should aye? Heard its really good.

Hogan vs One Man Gang WHAT A MAIN EVENT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you want more '96 goodness then I can say yes. It's a lot of fun. Bobby Heenan drops the F BOMB live on TV too. But, if you need to download something from 1996 then you must get Uncensored 1996. If only just for Finlay vs Regal b/c it's legit one of the best matches in the history of World Championship Wrestling. Plus, every WCW fan has to witness the world's worst double main event in Giant vs Loch Ness & Tower of Doom.

CLASSIC MAIN EVENT~!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'll probably download a 1996 PPV pack soon.

FINLAY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

FINLAY SWAG. Regal too. Every single one of their matches is the best ever. I pimped out all of their bouts during 1996 many, many pages back. You're gonna love the Parking Lot Brawl match. It's so bossy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Are they all on PPV? Or are some on Nitro's? 

LORD STEVEN REGAL SWAG


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1996 Nitro is filled with a bunch of fun stuff. Flair/Giant, Luger/Guerrero, LugerSting v A.Males, Finlay/Regal, Regal/Guerrero, Guerrero/Benoit, Malenko/Liger, Flair/Savage, Hogan/Anderson, FlairAnderson v HoganSavage, Savage/Finlay (this might've happened not on Nito. IDRC), Regal/any human with a pulse. Regal was the best wrestler in 1996 WCW (IMO).

Flair was the best promo in the world, too. Such a nutcase. Plus those nWo vignettes later on are all time great level.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Are they all on PPV? Or are some on Nitro's?
> 
> LORD STEVEN REGAL SWAG


Uncensored '96 was their only PPV match. The rest were on Nitro & WCW Saturday Night.



Yeah1993 said:


> 1996 Nitro is filled with a bunch of fun stuff. Flair/Giant, Luger/Guerrero, LugerSting v A.Males, Finlay/Regal, Regal/Guerrero, Guerrero/Benoit, Malenko/Liger, Flair/Savage, Hogan/Anderson, FlairAnderson v HoganSavage, Savage/Finlay (this might've happened not on Nito. IDRC), Regal/any human with a pulse. Regal was the best wrestler in 1996 WCW (IMO).
> 
> Flair was the best promo in the world, too. Such a nutcase. Plus those nWo vignettes later on are all time great level.


Finlay vs Savage was 3/25.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

There's at least two good matches on every nitro I've watched so far.

Looks like I've got a lot of GOODNESS to watch. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was WCW's hook when marketing Nitro. Quality competitive matches given each week. Bischoff knew what he was doing at that time. Especially with how RAW was. Those are still fun, but if I'm being honest, can be pretty blah looking back. The quality matches were few and far between where as Nitro's were much more consistent.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Well it's very enjoyable looking back. I wouldn't of remembered most of this as I was only about 6 when it was 1996/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

6 year olds don't take note of PSYCHOLOGY like one would do in their 20's.  

Going back can only up the appreciation and fun.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

What was the WCW ppv where Hogan/Flair 4 corners match ended in a pinfall? How do you not know the rules beforehand or was Hogan being Hogan?


:hogan: I don't need any rules, brother! What'cha gonna do when the Hulkster gets the 1-2-3 on you?!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hogan/Flair @ Uncensored 1999 was a steel cage first blood that ended in a pinfall.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Ah, okay I fucked up. I remember actually walking out of the room during that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> What was the WCW ppv where Hogan/Flair 4 corners match ended in a pinfall? How do you not know the rules beforehand or was Hogan being Hogan?
> 
> 
> :hogan: I don't need any rules, brother! What'cha gonna do when the Hulkster gets the 1-2-3 on you?!


Yeah1993 cleared things up, but I think you might have gotten the main event of Spring Stampede confused with the Uncensored one. Only noting it considering you mentioned a 4 way, which was what main evented Spring Stampede and it had Hogan vs Flair vs Sting vs DDP in it.

Gonna try and log my thoughts on the majority of WWE programming in here to see which TOP matches will make my cut. I guess I should have started with Main Event on 1/2, but since both matches were terrible I'll simply start with RAW.

--------------

*Monday Night RAW 1/7/13​*

1) John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler ~ DUD


2) *WWE Divas Championship*
Eve Torres(c) vs Kaitlyn ~ DUD


3) Rhodes Scholars _(Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow)_ vs Team Hell No _(Kane & Daniel Bryan)_ ~ *


4) Randy Orton vs Heath Slater ~ DUD


5) Wade Barrett vs Santino Marella ~ DUD


6) Antonio Cesaro vs Great Khali ~ DUD


7) Sheamus vs Jinder Mahal ~ DUD


8) *WWE Championship* - *Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match*
CM Punk(c) vs Ryback ~ ***1/2


9) Big Show vs Kofi Kingston ~ N/R​

~ First two hours of this RAW was atrocious. Nothing but garbage squash matches over and over and over again. Cesaro hit the Neutralizer on Khali again - which was very impressive. Big whoop though. All of it is exactly what the WWE needs to get away from. Where is the interesting booking?

~ Cena vs Dolph was a travesty. I have never ever remotely once said the awful term "super cena". Until now. The booking in this match was far and away the biggest load of shit I think I might have ever seen. You got the knuckleheads who complain about Cena beating Lesnar at Extreme Rules when that was done to damn near perfection. This trainwreck, however, is a real reason for someone to moan and groan. This is coming a guy who LOVES John-boy too. Don't get me wrong, he's the man. I can't tolerate mindless booking that of which nearly destroys Dolph's credibility. Dolph hits all of his finishers/signature moves. Cena kicks out. Ok. Not bad b/c there was a ref bump ---> Big E. Langston interference. Lays out Cena. Dolph covers. Cena _still_ kicks out. Only way out now is a dusty finish. Nope. Instead Cena his ONE F-U and beats Dolph clean. Fuck this. Cena, you're always by one of my favorites, but I can't spin this in any fashion to where this made one bit of sense. WWE needs to get slapped upside the head for this one. Rant over.

~ The last hour of this show...ok, it legit _(and I'm 100% dead serious. no hyperbole or sarcasm.)_ saved the entire show. First off the personal pleasure I got out of Big Show making Kofi Kingston job in 24 seconds. Nearly brought a tear to my eye. Kofi Kingston might finally become a jobber. It's bliss. Now onto the honest to goodness aspect of what made this hour of wrestling television a wonderful experience...

~ TLC was a ton of fun. I bought into it. Perhaps more than some others. Perhaps less than some others. Punk was a bumping machine and speaking of machines, my word Ryback was filthy with his destruction during the match. Decimating Punker any and all chance he could find. All of those months of frustration seemed to culminate every chance Ryback got to slam Punk through a table or crush him on a ladder. Punk displayed flashes of brilliance too in a mist of being the one who was clobbered _(Ben Grimm seems to fit Ryback a hair more considering aesthetic appearances. I digress)_ Punk's display of intelligence to maneuver his way around the brute rocked. Dodging the steel steps only to leap off of them to drive the high knee into Ryback's face + evading Ryback by rolling out of the ring to lure him into diving into a table. Awesome. I appreciated and more importantly enjoyed the psychology of the match. It was painfully obvious Punk would win, yet that didn't come into play once in the match. The drama was still there even with the Rock championship shot looming for the Rumble. Another Shield screw job on Ryback makes me ponder if Ryback will even win the Rumble match now. I could honestly see Ryback vs The Shield at WrestleMania. If not in a handicap then in another 6 man capacity. I had tons of fun with this match. It isn't a MOTYC, or at least not a HIGH one, but it's the current WWE MOTY atm. 10 days in, big whoop I know. It's gonna be mentioned for the rest of the year. No doubt. It had that memorable factor to it. Plenty of entertainment to go around. Thankfully the debut RAW gave us a match worth discussing. Hoping the trend continues tenfold throughout the rest of the year. If not one match on RAW per week, but a few. 3 hours a week. They can afford to give us 3-4 quality bouts.

~ CM Punk's pipe bomb. I'm sitting here at 2:54 AM writing this review and I'm literally out of words on what to say about this. I can yammer on about how I love this and this is why I love CM Punk to death, but I've tooted that horn so many times that it hasn't lost it's luster, only merely doesn't do what CM Punk does pure justice. The man knows how to hook you. Dare I say better than a majority of many, and I mean MANY workers in the whole of the biz. You got some out there who want to disagree with that. Maybe b/c they don't like the "fourth wall" being shattered or any form of a worked-shoot being done. I can't see those as a negative when done the way Punk delivers it. b/c regardless of what the "plan" was, everything is REAL. You believe every single word out of his mouth. I know I do. And I'm honest to science certain what he says is the truth. He wouldn't bring up Bryan Danielson being gimmicked out or Tyson Kidd being a workhorse if he didn't firmly believe the controversial things he was spitting out. Punk does it again. Like I said, I really do not have the appropriate response to really sum up what he gave us in his promo. I'll say godly and advance on.

~ Rock's interactions. Wow. Finally _(no pun intended)_ Rock brought it. Sure, he was tons of fun on the RAW 1000th show. No doubt. Here, on this RAW when it firmly meant something important, he brought it. And I'm soooooo glad he did. He kept his comedy stuff. I had no gripes. I laughed. Beat 100% of all of his comments towards Cena which I found to be garbage the majority of the time. Back and forth with Punker was what the Rumble needed. I'm officially hyped. This dream match is one that I know nobody ever imagined. Rock vs Cena, yeah, it was once in a lifetime. Fair enough. Only, that HAD to happen. Or if Rock returned for one more match it would against...yep, you guessed it, John Cena. Perfectly understandable too. Who saw Rock vs CM Punk coming until Rock announced he would appear at the Rumble? Hmm? Nobody. Of course not. This match means something. At least it does to me. I'm feeling that buzz. The excitement, the anticipation, the joy of watching WWE again. Actually caring and being quite emotionally invested in a match. More than the usual. I'm pulling for the Punker 100% in this clash. Although I'm glad Rock has made this special in his own right too. It's gonna be a clash. Match could be a toss up. We know the atmosphere will be, pun intended, electric. Can't wait. I'm pumped, stoked, hyped, and more importantly excited to see a big time clash for the WWE Championship. If Rock returns to work, well, then this is what it needs to be. Not like the crap known as Survivor Series 2011. This match alone has jump started the pulse of the Royal Rumble again. 2 years it's been dead. Maybe even longer some others. Punk vs Rock. It's gonna be something special. Just like what those two, especially Punk, made the final hour of this RAW. Special.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Yeah1993 cleared things up, but I think you might have gotten the main event of Spring Stampede confused with the Uncensored one. *Only noting it considering you mentioned a 4 way, which was what main evented Spring Stampede and it had Hogan vs Flair vs Sting vs DDP in it.*


I fucked up from brain to keyboard here.
Yeah1993 answered my question and corrected me. The bold above is not what I was thinking about. The match between Hogan/Flair I believed I trying to mention was a four corners match, where you win by tapping each turnbuckle while dragging your opponent. I may be mistaken though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, the strap match from Uncensored 2000 is what I do think you might be leaning towards actually.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Oh, the strap match from Uncensored 2000 is what I do think you might be leaning towards actually.



There we go! Thank you, Hailsabin. The holy Haley (whateverthehellherlastnameis) is watching over you.
Terrible fuckin' matches with the cage and strap though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hayley1 She's always with me.

Speaking of bad strap matches with Hogan & Flair, you recall the Strap match with Hogan vs Vader from Uncensored 1995? The match literally ends when Hogan locks RIC FLAIR up in the strap and begins to hit all 4 turnbuckles. Bobby Heenan was the only guy who realized it was insanity. It was either the most hilarious or perplexing thing you could possibly see. Until the next abomination gimmick/booking decision by WCW would rear its ugly head. _(still <3 that WCW tho)_


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Locks up? Like wraps Flair up with the strap?
Reading that, it seems Hogan should steer clear of gimmick matches. That tower match with the DOD comes to mind.


Edit: Just read about that. Seriously go over the rules before the match so you won't look like an idiot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, he removes the strap off of Vader's wrist only to attach it to Flair's and win the match. It's bonkers.

I brought up the spectacle known as the Tower of Doom a few pages back. :lol It's the ultimate of wrestlecrap.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

WCW usually had terrible gimmick matches. I read about the early Halloween Havoc ppvs...yikes. Points for being creative but the execution (no pun intended) was bad. I did like the Thunderdome match at HH '89.

Edit:
-Chamber of Horror - could have been better (without the switch going down by itself)
-Coal Miner's Glove (wtf?)
-Sumo Monster truck match - what?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thunderdome wasn't bad. It seems to be a match fans either got into or they didn't. Cream of the crop at Halloween Havoc though is obvious. You know where I'm going with it when we're talking about bad gimmicks. Chambers of Horrors from 1991 of course. Points for thinking outside of the box, but oh my. It's beyond outlandish. Sometimes it's awesome to watch all of those matches though. Don't know why, but it really can be. I love this stuff too much I guess that even the bad matches have appeal haha.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Just looked up what the Coal Miner's Glove match was and it's a fucking "( ) on a pole" match? Really? Really? :miz


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Am I the only one that feels that the Backlash 2003 match between Cena and Lesnar was up their, on par with their 2012 match?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

> 1) John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler ~ DUD


Hell yes.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

May have to get all the Nitros from 1996 up to 1998. There was a YouTube user who had all the Nitros from 95 up to 97 but I checked just this very minute and about 90%have been deleted. Gash.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Cal/anyone have you seen Undertaker/Vader Casket Match from MSG in 1997? Thoughts? I didn't know they had this match.


Its ok. Short, nothing special. About **.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Clique said:


> Cal/anyone have you seen Undertaker/Vader Casket Match from MSG in 1997? Thoughts? I didn't know they had this match.


It's a 5 minute squash match that happened during the first 15 years of Undertaker's career (i.e. he's absolute shit in every way concievable). Oh, and it ends in an interference by Mankind and the Mandible Claw. :cuenca


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WCW in 1996 rocked. Love the Jericho/Benoit match from Fall Brawl '96. Fun match. Give it a solid ****.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

1996 WCW is probably my favourite of the later years. '89-94 is the peak, but 1996 for me is far better than 1998-2001. 1997 has a few gems, namely Eddie having arguably a career year as well as the DDP vs Savage feud which produced a consistent run of great matches.



SpookshowTony said:


> Just looked up what the Coal Miner's Glove match was and it's a fucking "( ) on a pole" match? Really? Really? :miz


The stipulation itself is ridiculous. However everything makes sense in the context of the feud and the match itself is an excellent blowoff to a heated feud. The tuxedos come about from a best dressed man contest earlier in the feud and Dibiase had used the loaded glove to screw over Duggan and the majority of the Mid South roster throughout the feud. The cage as well obviously ensured the LLT match would be one on one, with no distractions, interference and essentially allowing the best man to win.

I've only seen the match itself a couple of times, but when I get the Mid South set I can't wait to watch the feud play out as the backstory is explained and the build to the final Cage match is often acclaimed as some of the best booking in wrestling history.



That Guy said:


> Am I the only one that feels that the Backlash 2003 match between Cena and Lesnar was up their, on par with their 2012 match?


Nah, never thought the Backlash 2003 match was that good and ER 2012 would probably make a top 15 WWF/E list for me. Maybe Cena's best performance of his career in terms of bumping, selling, building sympathy, making his situation look hopeless and timing his comebacks to perfection. Lesnar is right there with him as the unleashed monster hellbent on massacring Cena, and his subtle but excellent selling of Cena's comebacks gets overlooked too much. The expression he makes after Cena does the Backlund deadlift counter out of the Kimura onto the steps may actually be the best part of the match. He looks shellshocked and for the first time lets down his guard to show a sign of weakness and injury whilst trying to regroup immediately. His punch drunk selling following the chain shot was pretty spectacular as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I'm making my picks for best control segment in a match, as well as the best selling job in a match, I'm going with Lesnar on both accounts. The Extreme Rules control segment was so unique by today's standards as Brock made us actually invest in his BEAST of a character, maybe because of the reason that we know in real life he could murder everybody in the locker room. We KNOW things about him that we don't know about every other performer, and that makes it easier for me to invest personally. The subtle things he did in the match with his body language was just amazing and honestly I don't think we'll ever see something like that ever again. Taker-Brock could make that magic happen, trust me.

Brock's selling in the HHH Summerslam match is something that the guys in the back should be taking notes of. AGAIN, we know that Brock has had stomach issues, and maybe a ton of this goes to Trips who probably planned this out in the back, but what a fucking smart strategy. Brock sells that shit like a champ, the way he looks at Heyman and begins spitting up shit was insane, the moment he yelled out "my stomach" I KNEW some shit just went down. How the hell can anybody hate on that match when it features some of the best selling I've seen in the E' ?

Still say that Brock's heel control segment is the GOAT. Seriously. I love the Backlash match and I have it at **** 1/4* , but it doesn't fucking come close to BREATHING the same air as the Extreme Rules match, which is currently my #10 WWE match of all time. The HHH match would be around 50ish I do believe.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I've having BROCK withdrawals. Guy is a natural.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Brock vs Cena is third on my list of best matches in WWF/E history atm.


1. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - SmackDown 23/6/2005
2. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 23/3/1997
3. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena - Extreme Rules 29/4/2012
4. Sgt Slaughter vs The Iron Sheik - Madison Square Garden 16/6/1984
5. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - Judgment Day 16/5/2004
6. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Bad Blood 5/10/1997
7. Finlay vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day 21/5/2006
8. Bob Backlund vs Sgt Slaughter - 21/3/1981
9. Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania 29/3/1987
10. Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 17/11/1996

11. Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Summerslam 19/8/2001
12. John Cena vs CM Punk - Money in the Bank 17/7/2011
13. The Rock vs Steve Austin - Wrestlemania X-Seven 1/4/2001
14. Chris Benoit vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - SmackDown 31/5/01
15. Shawn Michaels vs Mankind - In Your House 10: Mind Games 22/9/1996 
16. John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble 28/1/2007
17. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Wrestlemania 20/3/1994
18. Mr Perfect vs Bret Hart - King of the Ring 13/6/1993
19. Bob Backlund vs Ken Patera - 19/5/1980
20. Chris Benoit vs William Regal - No Mercy 8/10/2006

21. Christian vs Jack Swagger - ECW 24/2/2009
22. Shawn Michaels vs Diesel - In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies 28/4/1996
23. Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton - SmackDown 7/4/2006
24. Chris Benoit vs Fit Finlay - SmackDown 5/5/2006
25. Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble - Velocity 5/1/2004


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Love it when an individual has the BALLS enough to put a match that has happened in the past 3-4 years in any top 10. I'll probably do a top 200 WWF/WWE matches in my own opinion sometime during 2012, it's been a few months since I did I big LIST.

BALLS.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> 8) *WWE Championship* - *Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match*
> CM Punk(c) vs Ryback ~ ***1/2
> 
> ~ TLC was a ton of fun. I bought into it. Perhaps more than some others. Perhaps less than some others. Punk was a bumping machine and speaking of machines, my word Ryback was filthy with his destruction during the match. Decimating Punker any and all chance he could find. All of those months of frustration seemed to culminate every chance Ryback got to slam Punk through a table or crush him on a ladder. Punk displayed flashes of brilliance too in a mist of being the one who was clobbered _(Ben Grimm seems to fit Ryback a hair more considering aesthetic appearances. I digress)_ Punk's display of intelligence to maneuver his way around the brute rocked. Dodging the steel steps only to leap off of them to drive the high knee into Ryback's face + evading Ryback by rolling out of the ring to lure him into diving into a table. Awesome. I appreciated and more importantly enjoyed the psychology of the match. It was painfully obvious Punk would win, yet that didn't come into play once in the match. The drama was still there even with the Rock championship shot looming for the Rumble. Another Shield screw job on Ryback makes me ponder if Ryback will even win the Rumble match now. I could honestly see Ryback vs The Shield at WrestleMania. If not in a handicap then in another 6 man capacity. I had tons of fun with this match. It isn't a MOTYC, or at least not a HIGH one, but it's the current WWE MOTY atm. 10 days in, big whoop I know. It's gonna be mentioned for the rest of the year. No doubt. It had that memorable factor to it. Plenty of entertainment to go around. Thankfully the debut RAW gave us a match worth discussing. Hoping the trend continues tenfold throughout the rest of the year. If not one match on RAW per week, but a few. 3 hours a week. They can afford to give us 3-4 quality bouts.


(Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy crap, I just watched Swagger vs Christian Backlash '09 and I really don't recall the match being that damn good. As a matter of fact, at the time I didn't think much of it. What the hell? How the hell could I have been bored with this match upon initial viewing? Seriously, what the hell was wrong with me?

This is an awesome match and is one of 2009's best. I prefer this over their ECW encounter as well. This match is just great story telling with Swagger working over Christian's ribs, Christian getting in some hope spots but Swagger right back on the offense. Honestly, the beauty of this match is in the finish. Because the match was all Swagger and no matter how many times Christian would get some offense in or sneak in a roll up Swagger would always get back on the offense, you really wouldn't expect Christian to win this at all. But he does, in one of the most unique finishes I have ever seen. Basically, Swagger keeps getting pissed off because no matter he couldn't get Christian down for the three count. An enraged Swagger removes the turnbuckle padding. While the ref is arguing with him, Christian is in the other corner removing a turnbuckle cover of his own!Still pissed off, Swagger dashes towards Christian, steel meets flesh, Swagger eats a Killswitch, 1..2..3! Freaking awesome match!

★★★★½


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tis instead an awesome match, but imo doesn't quite match up to their second ECW match. That one is just untouchable when it comes to anything else that happened in 09 aside from HBK/Undertaker .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Big Z said:


> Tis instead an awesome match, but imo doesn't quite match up to their second ECW match. That one is just untouchable when it comes to anything else that happened in 09 aside from HBK/Undertaker .


Second ECW match? What was the date? Was that 2/24/09?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah that's the second one. They had one either the night Christian returned or the week after, and THEN the fucking epic one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'll probably have a watch of Backlash soon. Christian in 09 could do no wrong and although I can't see it displacing my love for the 2/24 encounter (MOTY for 2009), I'm expecting the usual chemistry of Swagger/Christian to shine again.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Backlash match was great but not as good as ECW 2/24. That was a clinic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having watched Cena/Lesnar again from the ER PPV DVD, before the match it obviously shows the build up and previous promos, i just love the moment when Lesnar kicks Cena's cap away, always makes me laugh, looks like a school bully lol, classic.

Personally, i love the build up to the match as well of course as the match, short but excellent little fued.

EDIT - Is that Christian/Swagger match on a DVD? Wouldnt mind seeing that...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think the ECW Christian/Swagger match made it onto an official DVD set (which sucks poo).

Finished watching RR 96. Turd show until the RR match and WWF Title match. Thoughts on my blog as always. Not looking forward to watching 1997. Shitty undercard and average Rumble from memory. Could be worse though, I've still got 1999 to sit through. Urgh.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> I've still got 1999 to sit through. Urgh.


You wouldn't be incinuating 1999 delivered a subpar PPV would you? I call ignorance good sir!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> You wouldn't be incinuating 1999 delivered a subpar PPV would you? I call ignorance good sir!


I most certainly would be insinuating such a notion good sir!


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

1996 was a horrible Rumble PPV as a whole, had a few okay moments but was very hard to sit through without fast forwarding or doing other things in the mean time. 1998 was great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Don't think the ECW Christian/Swagger match made it onto an official DVD set (which sucks poo).
> 
> Finished watching RR 96. Turd show until the RR match and WWF Title match. Thoughts on my blog as always. Not looking forward to watching 1997. Shitty undercard and average Rumble from memory. Could be worse though, I've still got 1999 to sit through. Urgh.


Argh, thought it was on a Live In The UK DVD i have until i saw the date of the match your'e talking about (Feb)  Must be another Swagger/Christian outing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Argh, thought it was on a Live In The UK DVD i have until i saw the date of the match your'e talking about (Feb)  Must be another Swagger/Christian outing.


Live in the UK was from April in 09 and featured a contract signing between the two. No match .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bloody hell, havnt had chance to watch the DVD yet, but i saw Christian vs Swagger im sure, didnt know it was a bleeding contract signing lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> May have to get all the Nitros from 1996 up to 1998. There was a YouTube user who had all the Nitros from 95 up to 97 but I checked just this very minute and about 90%have been deleted. Gash.


I have a torrent for all 1995-1998 nitros if you want it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

But it's the Attitude Era.....

As we all know, EVERYTHING was better in the Attitude Era unk2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched Ambrose/Rollins FCW 09/18/11 for the first time. Ambrose is legit the fucking man. I can see Rollins being a bigtime babyface down the line.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked Del Rio/Show from Smackdown. Gonna watch it again and give it a rating but it was a good time, imo. I like Del Rio as a face and I love the friendship with Ricardo now.

And those Christian/Swagger matches own, imo. Backlash I have at **** and the ECW one I have at ****1/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just watched SD. Awful fucking show (like Impact this week). * for the LMS match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Really? Didn't like the LMS at all? 

Agreed on the rest of the show though. Bunch of short ass matches and a Cesaro/Orton match that could've had potential.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I liked the LMS match


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Just watched Ambrose/Rollins FCW 09/18/11 for the first time. Ambrose is legit the fucking man. I can see Rollins being a bigtime babyface down the line.


I'll probably make an effort to watch them over the weekend, got no reason not to.

The two Regal matches are still his peak work imo. First match he's amazing selling the arm in such a way that Regal still comes off as the babyface despite mangling it, second match is built all around him surviving Regal's onslaught and picking his spots and trying to end Regal's career. Both matches have great selljobs from both men, great control segments and overall strong performances with an eye for storytelling, progressing the angle and ending the feud in the most poetic way.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've seen the match where Ambrose's arm damn near gets ripped right off. Amazing selling. I'll try to find the other one. There are other Ambrose/Rollins matches too, yeah?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah the rematch is this year. Regal is vicious again with creative ways to mangle Ambrose, but Regal surpasses himself in the second half of the match busting out one of the best selling performances in recent memory. 

Regal/Ambrose II is here:






Rollins/Ambrose I:






Rollins/Ambrose II: 






Rollins/Ambrose IV: 






Rollins/Ambrose V: 






There are two Rollins/Sandow matches after the 4th Ambrose match which Seabs called surefire MOTYCs. Only one is on youtube though sadly. Supposedly both are Rollins selling cases.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh damn, so I watched Rollins/Ambrose III? Probably would've been even better if I had watched these in chronological order. 

Thanks for all this. <3

Gonna look for the Rollins/Sandow match, too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

No worries 

Rollins/Sandow 11/13/11:







They have one match before it, from 10/30 which Seabs pimped just as much. That's missing from youtube though sadly. I did find another of their matches, from 6/19 however which again Seabs pimped albeit on a lower scale than the later matches:







Another match Seabs pimped very highly. Him & Steamboat Jr vs Los Aviadores from 6/5/11


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fuck. Have I told you lately that you OWN? Got lots of stuff to watch.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Aye, it doesn't get old though


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Are you into the indy stuff that Cody is? I was reading up on this PAC guy (now in NXT but already forgot his "WWE name") and found a youtube vid of his top 10 moves. The guy seems insane. 75% of the clips were against El Generico (also signed by WWE now?) and was wondering if you pimp those matches (apparently there are 2 PAC/Generico matches) as much as Cody does. Never really got into indies other than an ROH match here or there.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit FCW really had some good stuff.

And I haven't seen much of PAC either, Greg. Hoping to find some matches myself. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There's a really good Ambrose/Sandow match in FCW too .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ummmm, I'm not as high on a lot of the indies generally (feel it really dipped once Danielson and McGuinness left ROH) but there's still some talent. I've honestly watched little of PAC. He was a Dragon Gate guy and well I just have no time for DG, they have their distinct style but its just not something I can really sit through anymore. I've really regressed into old school wrestling so most of the guys I like today are those who either exhibit a lot of old school tendancies or who are older wrestlers. PAC by all accounts has gotten better at developing an all round game, which if true will serve him well in WWE where he'll be expected to use his offence only at the beginning and end of a match and therefore have to do more in between.

Generico is a guy I like, albeit far less than others. Seems like a chill dude, works hard and is a very emotive wrestler. Can't see I'm a huge fan of a lot of his strikes and offence (look a little too light for my tastes) and he's not the sort of guy I enjoy working 50/50 bouts. Still, he's a genuine babyface who works well from underneath and can really make a match engaging so long as the heel isn't fucking pitiful. I think in WWE them stripping down parts of his moveset might aid him. 

Aside from that, I only really like a select handful of guys on the indies. Sami Callihan is pretty good, albeit flawed and prone to annoying tendancies (plays a punk/screamo/lunatic character and often gets too caught up in that character with bizarre facial expressions and occasionally over the top setups for certain moves). Still he bumps and sells well, is great working as a tough as nails babyface or a malicious heel controlling a match, and his match in 2011 vs Finlay was spectacular and one of the best indy matches in years. I haven't seen the two Finlay matches from this year, but Seabs and Yeah1993 put up some links to some of his 2012 work which I can dig up for you if you're ever curious to check him out.

I fucking loathe Davey Richards and others of that style. I understand why the agility and athleticism works for some, but yeeesh I just can't escape the lack of pacing, structure, logic or genuine investment in their matches. Everything happens at such speed there's no time to really get invested in the match and very few times does there appear to be a structure developing to make both guys look better by the end of the match.

James Mason & Dean Allmark fucking rule the world though. They're on the British indy scene and work more Regal esque counter wrestling matches with a great babyface/heel dynamic and some purely fun/comical wrestling thrown in between. From the little I've seen, Damien Wayne looks a great talent as well.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Rollins/Steamboat series of matches from 2010-2011 when they were feuding over the FCW 15 Medal is where it's at boys. If you can somehow find those matches, they were fucking fantastic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember watching one of their matches a while back and thought it was dull as shit lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I haven't watched a full Indy match since Danielson left ROH. That being said, I'd be interested in the Sami/Finlay stuff if it's not too hard to dig up. Also, never seen a Davey Richards match, so I can't comment either way.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I haven't seen much of PAC but he looks all right. I watched him a few times in 2012 and he worked holds and mat-based shit interestingly enough, and his highspots don't seem annoying or out of place. He built to the the big stuff. Am I wrong in saying he has, like, no personality, though? God, he just seems so...boring as a person. Note that I say 'seems' because I don't actually know.

WOOLCOCK I'll put the two Finlay/Callihans from 2012 on youtube tomorrow. Well, I'll put the EVOLVE one up tomorrow. 16 Carat Gold I'd have to pull from the whole show since I don't have the single match. Might take more time. Well, it really won't tkae THAT much more time, but it's a tiny bit of a pain and I'll just procrastinate it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I know Yeah1993 was saying he'd up Finlay/Callihan EVOLVE 2012 soon. Not sure on a link for the WXW match or the first match from EVOLVE in 2011. Cal upped it last year on megaupload but when that went to shit a ton of links vanished and quite a lot of other sites get really bad download speeds.

If you haven't seen a Richards match...I wouldn't say you need to go check him out. I haven't watched his early years work but the general consensus is he got terrible the longer he stayed and there's very little redeeming qualities to his work anymore.

@ Yeah1993: no rush mate  . I haven't watched much PAC apart from an AJ Styles match back in like 2006 for 1PW. The DG stuff obviously meant I was never that interested in tracking down his work, though people did swear he was competent on the mat and over the years seems to have gotten better with his highpsots and timing them. Obviously that'll get even better in WWE where the emphasis will be on spacing them out and having him work to make a comeback, can't comment much on his personality due to seeing nothing of his ring/mic work...but he's supposedly got a strong Geordie accent, so hearing him cut a promo will be interesting. Wonder if Shane can dub promos again


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK READ THE PST ABOVE YOU. 

I'll put the 2011 one up if I still have the single match. I'm sure I do.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

YEAH1993 read the edit 

I do hate when you make a post, then see someone else has posted and you've got to ninja edit before the posts start getting muddled up and lose track of a conversation.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

'Ninja edit' is the perfect way to describe those types of situations. Imagine how I feel being such a shitty typer and having to speed my way through a post while still making it look like English. FFS In my previous post I missed the 'O' in 'POST'. And I wasn't rushing that one.

Um....wrestling. Uhhhhh.....I uploaded Vader v 2 Cold Scorpio from the PWS anniversary show last year....enjoy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCDgxS_kS3s


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ooooh, if it weren't 00.53am I'd be all over that. Thought Scorpio looked great in the Vordell Walker match this year, so will definitely give that a watch. Haven't seen Vader outside of one tag with his son a year or two ago, so be interesting to see how mobile he is these days.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He's pretty mobile (for his age + fatness). He looked fine in the match with Necro, and some tag with Rikishi v Two Random Heels. Though I haven't watched the Scorp match yet and it goes over ten minutes, so who the fuck knows. I never got to see the Vader Time tag with his son, and it was removed from youtube.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

From memory I don't remember it being blowaway awesome, more a nice showcase to see such a talented guy back in the ring for nostalgia purposes. I think his son worked more of the match and iirc wasn't exactly setting the world on fire in it.

Also got the Los Misioneros de la Muerte v Space Cadets match from 2/10/05 to watch tomorrow. Been months since I watched anything from the poll, hopefully its another Lucha gem. Will likely watch Santo/Perro Jr 8/13/04 again with you upping the whole match instead of the faff with there being 7/8 mins clipped off in the old youtube link I first watched.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't seen much of PAC but he looks all right. I watched him a few times in 2012 and he worked holds and mat-based shit interestingly enough, and his highspots don't seem annoying or out of place. He built to the the big stuff. Am I wrong in saying he has, like, no personality, though? God, he just seems so...boring as a person. Note that I say 'seems' because I don't actually know.
> 
> WOOLCOCK I'll put the two Finlay/Callihans from 2012 on youtube tomorrow. Well, I'll put the EVOLVE one up tomorrow. 16 Carat Gold I'd have to pull from the whole show since I don't have the single match. Might take more time. Well, it really won't tkae THAT much more time, but it's a tiny bit of a pain and I'll just procrastinate it.


What is your YT channel?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Greg, Davey Richards isn't worth your time. Sami Callihan is though. As is Adam Cole. You need to see both. 

There is a rumor that Trips is thinking about giving both of them a contract too. So, they're HHH approved apparently. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Here's one of the very few times when I freaking take rumours as Gosepl lol.

I would love to see Callihan and Cole on WWE TV. You know I love to complain about it but hey it's a fact they need to work on their in-ring work a bit. Gotta get to working DAT WWE STYLE!

Callihan and Cole are both great on the mic. Cole needs to put some more mass on but damn he has the look. As for Sami, great talker can take his gimmick a little too over the top but hey I'll take someone with a character over trunks and boots stiff kickers.

BTW, WOOLOCK, I know this isn't the place to discuss but I saw you posted something about Generico a while back and I share the same view on him as you. So with that being said, what did you think of Generico/Steen FB 2010?

I didn't really like it, not my cup of tea. It was just the typical indy style match imo with weapons. It was just the two of them taking turns constructing some catastrophic device and putting each through it. That and 30 minutes was way, way too much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Getting a hold of the WWE style will suit them when they're in developmental. That's the point of FCW/NXT. I'll buy the rumor. It's been rumored that the company was interested in them before. Cole is a great fit for the company and Callihan is working on the Moxley/Ambrose level of a different, manic type of "superstar" that they can package. Not a coincidence I made the Callihan & Moxley comparison. I KNOW the WWE had to see Callihan while scouting Moxley. Switchblade Conspiracy was prime back in CZW.

I still mark for Generico vs Steen. Not my favorite match, but it worked. Brutal stuff - glad I own it on DVD now. ****


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Anybody watch Del Rio vs. Big Show from SmackDown yet? Really good TV match I thought. Del Rio looked incredible. Won me over with that performance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You got a match listing for Smackdown tonight? No spoilers and all that jazz.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Sheamus vs. Someone from 3MB
Orton vs. Cesaro
Natalya/Khali vs. Ziggler/AJ
Daniel Bryan/Kane vs. Prime Time Players
Del Rio vs. Big Show in a Last Man Standing match for the WHC.

GREAT show overall. Felt like it was half an hour instead of 2.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Orton vs Cesaro and del Rio vs big show


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, Cesaro better murder Randal.

Cheers for the listing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Genuinely don't get how anyone could have liked SD tonight. Matches were either EXTREMELY SHORT and disappointing, or just disappointing. Absolutely nothing worth seeing. It was literally like watching Impact for the second time this week.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

How dare you Big Z 8*D

I thought it was a great SmackDown. Rock was great, Punk was great, Del Rio was great. The LMS was surprisingly really good by TV standards. Alright alright. I'll admit, I skipped Sheamus/3MB completely, and kinda skimmed through the mixed tag match and the Bryan/Kane and PTP match. Maybe that was enough crap for you to hate it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now I have no idea what to expect tonight. 8*D

I'll anticipate Punk & Rock following up the strong work on Monday.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The stuff you skipped was like 80% of the show lol . Rock was awful as usual. Seriously, the guy probably doesn't have 5 good promos in his entire career. Didn't even think much to what Punk was saying. Del Rio still sucks. LMS was * at best imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did Rock overdo the comedy stuff tonight? 

I know your opinion on him doesn't leave a lot to be desired, but I honestly enjoyed his work on RAW for the first time since his return. Want that to remain.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well if you enjoy anything Rock as done in the past you'll probably enjoy it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2011 - 2012 I didn't like much. About two things: his return & segment with Danielson on RAW 1000. Things in the past, yeah, I got into them.

New subject: don't you own the GOAT set that has every Undertaker match ever on it? Asking b/c last night I was pondering to myself how all I want in life is to watch and own all of his matches and see how I feel about every single one. It's what I'm living for.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got the first 20 discs of that Undertaker set. Only really missing some PPV matches here and there and some lesser show matches from non Raw/SD shows. Plus I have a bunch of house show footage that the set doesn't have. I was starting to collect all his matches to put a set together myself when someone else beat me to it .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Genuinely don't get how anyone could have liked SD tonight. Matches were either EXTREMELY SHORT and disappointing, or just disappointing. Absolutely nothing worth seeing. It was literally like watching Impact for the second time this week.


One word: ROCK.

Haven't watched Smackdown since last May but I will definitely catch this one just to see the main event, ROCK and Orton/Cesaro. Also because it's a new year and I'd like to go in optimistic as opposed to the HORRIBLE 2012.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know Cesaro will carry Randal to something interesting. :hayley1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some people are gonna be extremely disappointed when they watch SD lol. My thoughts on the matches:



Spoiler: Shitdown



Randy Orton Vs Antino Cesaro - Smackdown 11/01/2013 - 1/2*

God fucking dammit. I'm not gonna get to watch any good matches tonight am I? Match is a little dull, the starts to pick up a bit and then... Shield attack Orton. 


Dolph Ziggler & AJ Lee Vs The Great Khali & Natalya - Smackdown 11/01/2013 - 1/4*

Oh come one! First match had promise... Shield interfered. Ziggler can do wonders with almost anyone... and they stick him with fucking KHALI? Does WWE not want me to enjoy their shows any more?

AJ's top gets stuck up and we just see her bra . Her tits look bigger than usual. She bits Natalya a few times then hits a move and pins her. This lasts like 2 minutes. WHAT THE FUCK? Why even bother? Big E murders the midget afterwards too.


Sheamus Vs 3MB - Smackdown 11/01/2013 - DUD

*cries* Sheamus hits a Brogue kick on Slater in seconds. Its over. I just want to watch a good match.


Team Hell No Vs Prime Time Players - Smackdown 11/01/2013 - 1/4*

The moment they said Team Hell No was in action, I knew it was again PTP. Who the fuck else is it gonna be? At least we have Bryan to put on a good... oh for FUCKS SAKE. Lasts about 2 minutes.


The Big Show Vs Alberto Del Rio - Last Man Standing - Smackdown 11/01/2013 - *

Ok, this looks like it'll have around 15 minutes, so hopefully I'll finally get something worth fucking watching. Shame I know the outcome, because that's already putting a downer on the whole thing.

Some good to this one, but mostly fairly boring and slow. Couple of tables got broken. Barricade got smashed through. Steel steps are used. Chairs too. End with Del Rio smashing the steel steps into Show a few times then pushing the announce table on top of him. Del Rio is new champion. Its fucking shit and I genuinely DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT. Why? He isn't over. This feud with Big Show has been more of a TV filler kinda feud than anything else. Urgh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nope, Randal is always great so he will do just fine when it comes to his parts!

Really just hoping he turns heel because that way he'll finally get some of his 'care' back and starts actually working harder rather than just going through the motions and phoning it in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Got the first 20 discs of that Undertaker set. Only really missing some PPV matches here and there and some lesser show matches from non Raw/SD shows. Plus I have a bunch of house show footage that the set doesn't have. I was starting to collect all his matches to put a set together myself when someone else beat me to it .


:mark:

Only attempt I have close to that is owning every WWE DVD set with Undertaker they pump out. So the levels of how many matches of him we own really does pale in comparison. I'll get there...someday!



Choke2Death said:


> Nope, Randal is always great so he will do just fine when it comes to his parts!
> 
> Really just hoping he turns heel because that way he'll finally get some of his 'care' back and starts actually working harder rather than just going through the motions and phoning it in.


I don't think it's his alignment that has caused him to phone it in. I think it's his ego, quite frankly. Ever since he got suspended for bitching out he's gone and said "fuck it".


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Spoiler: Del Rio/Big Show match review



Alberto Del Rio vs Big Show - Smackdown 1/11/13

***1/2

Really starting to like Del Rio as a face. It works because everyone loves Ricardo and it makes you like when Del Rio protects him and I think that will help him get over. Crowd really liked him tonight.

For the match, I wouldn't say it was an amazing LMS but I liked it for the most part. Once Big Show took control I like how they had Del Rio just manage to stand up after going through the barricade and then roll out of the ring and touch his feet on the ground for the KO Punch. Had WWE not spoiled it I would've thought for sure the match was over when the KO Punch was hit. The ending was fine with me. 3 pretty good looking shots with the steel steps and then tossing the table on him. I'm not sure how I feel about the title change as a whole yet but I'll let it play out. I like Del Rio's ring work quite a bit and his new face persona so maybe it'll work. 

As a whole I thought the match made Del Rio look really good which is what Big Show should be doing for guys like Del Rio. Sending him up to the next level.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I don't think it's his alignment that has caused him to phone it in. I think it's his ego, quite frankly. Ever since he got suspended for bitching out he's gone and said "fuck it".


I blame that on the shitty bookers that give him absolutely nothing to work with. C'mon, if I was Orton I would also phone it in if Heath Slater is what I get.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE No Way Out 2006*​
1) *WWE Cruiserweight Championship* - *Nine Way Match*
Gregory Helms(c) vs Paul London vs Brian Kendrick vs Super Crazy vs Psicosis vs Kid Kash vs Nunzio vs Shoichi Funaki vs Scott Taylor ~ **3/4


2) John Bradshaw Layfield vs Bobby Lashley ~ **1/2


3) MNM _(Johnny Nitro & Joey Mercury)_ vs Matt Hardy & Tatanka ~ **3/4


4) *WWE United States Championship*
Booker T(c) vs Chris Benoit ~ **1/2


5) *Winner Earns World Championship at WrestleMania*
Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton ~ ***3/4


6) *World Heavyweight Championship*
Kurt Angle(c) vs The Undertaker ~ ****1/2​
~ Opener was solid. Served it's purpose to continue Helms reign as the superior cruiserweight. HELMS. (Y)

~ JBL got something watchable vs Lashley. They clobber each other till the ever grand Dave Finlay comes out and owns Lashley. Undefeated streak: over.

~ The common theme of solid matches continues with MNM open challenge. Everyone looked good and no complaints. This event if very straight forward. It's too bad this crowd is DEAD~!

~ Ugh. Ok, this match wasn't "bad" per say. Just didn't need to go fucking 18 minutes. fml level pretty dull here. Which is too bad and unexpected with a Chris Benoit match. Not their best match. Hell, I'll go out and say it's the weakest I've seen them have vs each other. I wasn't into it at all. Easy weakest match of the night only b/c I had to struggle to finish it.

~ Orton vs Mysterio was awesome. Plain and simple it was all on part of Orton's character being GREAT. He was working the heel stuff on a strong, strong level here. Never liked the using Eddie Guerrero's name in programs. Although, Randy actually used that to his advantage here. More so than Mysterio or Chavo did during their eventual program. Mysterio was good in his role here too. Per usual. But, this was all Orton imo. He was the star here. I miss Orton being this good. He was my favorite guy in the company that wasn't Undertaker back at this time. *sigh* </3

~ Undertaker vs Angle. It always works. I don't know what there is left to say that wasn't said by all others who have seen this match. I liked their Smackdown match from 2003 more. Doesn't take anything away from here. Hard to believe how flat out bad their very first match up was back at Fully Loaded 2000. The progression of both showed. Especially Angle. Taker brought out the best in him. Possibly better than anyone minus Austin. Crowd ate this up with a spoon and wanted thirds. It was hilarious how the crowd was dead the entire night & then shot to life when this began. what a DRAW. _(like really. Some people in the front row were sleeping till this match came on)_ Excellent match. The last GREAT singles Kurt Angle match I can recall him having. Undertaker would go on to have quite a bit more. b/c he's the best. As if we all don't know that fact already.

_Final Analysis_: Solid PPV with a grand main event and a damn great character driven semi-main event. Worth owning/seeing just for those two. I'd skip the United States Championship match. Undercard did what it needed. I think the snowflakes speak for themselves. All around good wrestling event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I blame that on the shitty bookers that give him absolutely nothing to work with. C'mon, if I was Orton I would also phone it in if Heath Slater is what I get.


I'd actually say that's a pathetic excuse to phone it in. Only proves my point that his ego is out of control and he's deserving of getting the shits. Just be a pro and work with what is given. If he's such a commodity then he'll be back in a stronger position in no time. Instead he doesn't put any effort it and it shows. Doesn't need to get anything worth while with an attitude like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I loved Benoit/Booker. Enjoyed it more than any other matches between them in 05 and that says a lot since I liked about every single one of them. COOOOOOOOOOOOWWAAAAAAAAAAARD!!!

Orton/Mysterio RULES but doesn't compare to their 7/4 match which says a lot about how good that match is. And I don't need to speak on the main event since everything has already been said about it.

Last quality Angle match in WWE is vs Orton from Vengeance IMO.

EDIT: Also got done with the ROCK/Rhodes Scholars segment. Awesome work by ROCK, Sandow and Cody's Mustache.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only Benoit match I can remember struggling to watch. Not a fan.

Orton vs Angle from Vengence was solid. I'm going on Angle's GREAT matches only though. Last one I can recall is that one vs Undertaker. Oh...well maybe the rematch on Smackdown before WrestleMania was. Either way it was his last match vs Taker that brought it. The rest of his career over these 7 years, yeah, nothing else pops out as great. He's had some good singles matches in TNA. Nothing I'd call great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Taker/Angle - ****3/4
Orton/Mysterio - ****1/4
Booker/Benoit - ***1/4
CW Open - ***
Lashley/JBL - **1/2
MNM/Tatanka & Matt - ***

I LOVE that show. (Y)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Holy crap, I just watched No Way Out '06 with a friend of mine on Tuesday night. What a coinkydink.

Booker T/Benoit- ***

Orton/Mysterio- ***1/2

Taker/Angle- ****1/4

Small sidenote- I love in the middle of the match when 'Taker is about to get counted out, Angle orders the ref to stop the count because he wants to kick Taker's ass. Cool little moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle was in it for the COMPETITION. Certainly was a nice touch.

*WWF A Cold Day In Hell* - _No Holds Barred Match_

Vader vs Ken Shamrock ~ ****​
:mark:

MANLY


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Since a few pages back a few of you said you haven't seen much of PAC, I'll throw out a few of his matches that I've liked. Although most of his stuff that I've really enjoyed has been on DGUSA which isn't upped to Daily Motion or Youtube.

vs. CIMA (from last year)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpoqrq_cima-c-vs-pac-dragon-gate_sport?search_algo=2#.UPDmRXdTGuI

vs. El Generico (Not the PWG one, from 2007, 2/3 Falls)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3...t-of-3-falls_sport?search_algo=2#.UPDm3XdTGuI

vs. Ricochet (SPOTZ~!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcAYB40oQxw

vs. Ricochet (Another match, longer)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnslhy_pac-vs-ricochet-dragon-gate_sport?search_algo=2#.UPDnoXdTGuI

vs. Prince Devitt
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr...jpw-06-06-12_sport?search_algo=2#.UPDoI3dTGuI

I want to say he had an awesome match against Dragon Kid at some big show, but I can't find a video or a date since I wasn't rating matches back when I watched it.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Hailsabin said:


> Angle was in it for the COMPETITION. Certainly was a nice touch.
> 
> *WWF A Cold Day In Hell* - _No Holds Barred Match_
> 
> ...








VADER SWAG :mark: :mark: :mark:

***3/4 for that match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader's lariat knocking off Shamrock's head & his suplex tossing Shamrock TO THE FLOOR rocked.

VADER'S BULLY SWAG :mark:


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Hailsabin said:


> Vader's lariat knocking off Shamrock's head & his suplex tossing Shamrock TO THE FLOOR rocked.
> 
> VADER'S BULLY SWAG :mark:


If you were building a monster heel, you would pretty much build vader. Or MARK HENRY!

Fuck you shawn, Vader should have won the title at Summerslam 96.

I miss henry.....he needs to come back ASAP


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Never seen that Shamrock/Vader match. 

I'm about to though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> If you were building a monster heel, you would pretty much build vader. Or MARK HENRY!
> 
> Fuck you shawn, Vader should have won the title at Summerslam 96.
> 
> I miss henry.....he needs to come back ASAP


MIZARK VS VADER. Book it for WM...

Oh yeah. I'm not one to hold grudges, however that fact has always left me soured. Summerslam '96. Damn. So close, yet so far.

Henry to return for the Rumble hopefully. Along with Christian.



Brye said:


> Never seen that Shamrock/Vader match.
> 
> I'm about to though.


yes, WATCH NOW.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

That Vader/Shamrock match was fucking brutal. Remember watching it live and being confused because they weren't fighting the normal WWF style. Still loved it though. Loved Vader when he was in full on beast mode.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I dawe a match between Pac and Danielson in ROH and wasn't that impressed but it was in 2007. I really like El Generico though but am fearful that WWE will ruin his character.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

So with the official announcement of Mick Foley going into the HOF this year, what are your Top 10 Matches from his illustrious career? Mine are:

Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels - Mind Games 1996 
Cactus Jack vs. Triple H (Street Fight) - Royal Rumble 2000 
Mankind vs. The Undertaker (Hell In A Cell Match) - King Of The Ring 1998 
Dude Love vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Over The Edge 1998
Cactus Jack vs. Sting (Falls Count Anywhere Match) - Beach Blast 1992
Mankind vs. The Rock (I Quit Match) - Royal Rumble 1999
Cactus Jack vs. Randy Orton (Hardcore Match) - Backlash 2004
Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Revenge Of The Taker 1997
Cactus Jack vs. Triple H (Hell In A Cell Match) - No Way Out 2000
Mick Foley vs. Edge (Hardcore Match) - WrestleMania 22

That order isn't necessarily written in stone but those are probably my favorites matches & performances from Mick. Honorable mentions:

Cactus Jack vs. Sting (Submit Or Surrender) - Power Hour 11/16/1991 
Cactus Jack vs. Paul Orndorff (Falls Count Anywhere) - Superbrawl III 
Cactus Jack vs. Vader Main Event 03/07/1993 
Cactus Jack vs. Vader (Texas Death Match) - Halloween Havoc 1993 
Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne vs. The Nasty Boys - Spring Stampede 1994 
Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne vs. The Nasty Boys - SuperBrawl 1994 
Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan vs. The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 1994
Mankind vs. Undertaker (Buried Alive Match) - Buried Alive 1996
Mick Foley/Edge/Lita vs. Terry Funk/Tommy Dreamer/Beulah - One Night Stand 2006


What a damn career. Don't get me started with promos.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

I thought Chris Jericho vs. Yoshi Tatsu was a decent match back on Superstars in 2010. Everything seemed to flow really well in that match.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just got RAW 1000 Blu-ray in the mail. Only took 4 days from Australia. Excited!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> I dawe a match between Pac and Danielson in ROH and wasn't that impressed but it was in 2007. I really like El Generico though but am fearful that WWE will ruin his character.


Good match. TERRIBLE way to debut him for the company in the States. It was heavily controlled by Danielson and PAC had no time to really shine. Hard to believe the next night PAC worked a match vs Davey Richards and it turned out to be better for him. How often will you ever hear that?

MICK FOLEY IS GOING IN THE HOF????? This is what I get for not seeing Smackdown yet. Omg best news ever! I needed it after the awful day I had. :mark:

Clique's list is around the same of mine. Only I'd probably have to include some more matches vs Undertaker on the list. I know vs Rock LMS would be the first to go. It's brutal, but I love plenty more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> So with the official announcement of Mick Foley going into the HOF this year, what are your Top 10 Matches from his illustrious career? Mine are:
> 
> Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels - Mind Games 1996
> Cactus Jack vs. Triple H (Street Fight) - Royal Rumble 2000
> ...


Great list mate, has anyone got this match, cant find it anywhere :sad:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Am I the only one who would rank the Foley V Orton street fight over the Foley V HHH street fight?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe - maybe not. 

Both are held in such high regard, so it isn't much of a stretch, from a majority perspective, of picking the match from Backlash over Foley vs Trips from Rumble.

They're two of my most watched matches. I know that much is certain.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> BTW, WOOLOCK, I know this isn't the place to discuss but I saw you posted something about Generico a while back and I share the same view on him as you. So with that being said, what did you think of Generico/Steen FB 2010?
> 
> I didn't really like it, not my cup of tea. It was just the typical indy style match imo with weapons. It was just the two of them taking turns constructing some catastrophic device and putting each through it. That and 30 minutes was way, way too much.


Don't like it at all. Crowd is pathetic for it which lessens the impact and overall atmosphere when the only reaction comes after one spot and its far too relient on elaborate setups for spots imo for what should be a true fight to the death. It was always going to suffer from me having watched a lot of Mask vs Hair matches in Mexico and seeing how they worked a true 'brawl' to reflect the hatred and animosity in the match, but Steen has never struck me as a great brawler because he spends far too much time setting up these big spots rather than just brawling and taking the violent bumps to put over the danger in the match.

Jimmy Jacobs for example strikes me as a far better brawler than Steen as far as ROH goes. Steen will set up tables on top of a ladder that's balanced between the guardrail and the ring, Jacobs will just take a backdrop off the top onto the ring apron or take a lunatic spill to the concrete floor to signify the hate and violence that should be a part of a true brawl.

So aye, dead crowd, a lot of stalling and dead filler in between the setups for the overly elaborate big spots, a lack of great brawling and striking from both outside of a couple of Generico headbutts, really lacking a true violent and gripping atmosphere and just not really making itself feel more than a slightly more violent hardcore match. Steen/Generico vs Briscoes from Boston Street Fight is so so so much better as far as a brawl goes. Only goes 14 minutes but there's a ton of ridiculously violent and dangerous bumps which don't require a big setup and you can feel the hatred in everything they do. Crowd is also rabid for everything which obviously helps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fuck the dead crowd. It nearly ruined it for me upon a first watch. I dig it now. I'm a mark for Generico. I gladly admit it. That's probably what it is. I don't see the stalling for spots in it. It felt like it moved at a decent enough pace in-between. I've seen much better Generico vs Steen matches all throughout their careers. Gimmicks or non-gimmicks alike.

Now the recent ladder match. Yeah, that's one where the stalling was blatant and things just didn't really come together well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Foley/Trips, Rumble is probably one of my GOAT matches ever. Love that thing to death. DAT FOLEY. DAT GAME. DEM SNOWFLAKES. ************ Wonderful to see Foley get inducted in a place with such significance to him not to mention the Mecca of WWE arenas. Really looking forward to that one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Fuck the dead crowd. It nearly ruined it for me upon a first watch. I dig it now. I'm a mark for Generico. I gladly admit it. That's probably what it is. I don't see the stalling for spots in it. It felt like it moved at a decent enough pace in-between. I've seen much better Generico vs Steen matches all throughout their careers. Gimmicks or non-gimmicks alike.
> 
> Now the recent ladder match. Yeah, that's one where the stalling was blatant and things just didn't really come together well.


I think I'm just pre-conditioned into what I think a 'mask vs career' match should be worked as, and sadly it came off more like a typical Steen hardcore match than a true war which could separate itself from other matches. Like I said I just don't think Steen is a good 'brawler' compared to being a decent hardcore worker. His offence doesn't ever really look brutal or vicious and I just thought the whole thing lacked any real drama or oomph. Dead crowd obviously played a part in that by not reacting to largely anything but I guess Steen and Generico and ROH have different views on what a brawl should be. Different strokes for different folks.

I can't recall if you're much of a Lucha enthusiast, but watch this match as I'd call it a top 3 brawl of all time. Up there with the best Lawler fight:

Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo 2/28/86: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QupMDu8c8Ts

Footage isn't great but I think it adds to the charm of the match. Me and Andy regularly cite the best Lucha brawls as looking like human cockfighting. The ring looks stained with every trace of human DNA and fluid, the bumps and offence are horrificly violent and the drama is constantly at a high thanks to the crowd and wonderfully expressive selling. Andy linked me to a great description of Sangre Chicana the other day, and it really does describe what makes his matches so raw and captivating:



> Then there's Chicana, who looks like he goes from town to town, getting drunk, sleeping in the street, getting into some sort of dispute with a local and winds up being one of the great gunslingers of all time instead of just a wino. I mean, on some level we're supposed to suspend our disbelief that these guys get paid to wrestle and that they do it for a living. Chicana doesn't look like he does it for a living. He looks like he wound up in the ring because he fucked the wrong person's daughter and there's a posse waiting for him if he makes it out alive. One of the most sympathetic babyfaces ever and one of the most despicable heels and probably the sleaziest worker I can think of.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

The WCW title match between Rock and Jericho on Raw 5 Nov. 2001 has never been released on a DVD/BR set, right?


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

So there's a Best of In Your House DVD in the works eh?


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm not mad at this. I'm posting it now because I suspect that it will change very soon (as soon as Monday as I expect Eve to lose her title). That being said, I can't think of too many better champions than this current set-up. Although I liked Wade a lot more pre-injury.

Antonio Cesaro is straight cash, homie. C.M. Punk is still great. I am digging Alberto Del Rio as a babyface. Eve is the best option in the women's division. I would not change any of those.

If I were WWE, I would build the entire company around C.M. Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Antonio Cesaro, Randy Orton & The Shield.

I think the Intercontinental division needs quite a bit of help & Cesaro could use some contenders too. The midcard is really weak right now. I would give guys like Justin Gabriel & Hunico some TV pushes to see if they can catch on. Replacing like The Miz or Kofi Kingston. Kofi needs to try to move up if WWE are ever going to do anything with him & The Miz, as a former WWE champion & guy that main evented Wrestlemania, should be above the midcard belts.

I also like Sheamus but he needs to not be so corny when talking & I think David Otunga & Alex Riley could have a lot of upside. I would use The Usos a lot more too. Even if you don't have a great tag team division a tag team can still get hugely over. Look at The Dudley Boys in ECW. Brodus could be a new monster, like Bundy or 'Quake but man, he can't work for shit.

Why does WWE never use Yoshi Tatsu? He's like the only Asian on the entire roster. I think I've seen him work maybe two matches total the whole time he's been in WWE. One was on Superstars back when that was still on television. The other was during the WWE version of ECW. He wasn't too memorable but I have no idea if this guy can even work or not. I feel like WWE should be going out of their way to make the guys stand apart & feel different from one another. Yoshi Tatsu can definitely fill a void there.

There are a lot of people on the roster that I see money & a lot of potential in. There are also a lot of people that I feel WWE need to really tone down // push back a little. I'm not feeling Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes or Damien Sandow at all, despite knowing how popular they are around here. I don't think AJ Lee works as a heel.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I like the champions in WWE right now. I take quite a bit of flak for never being positive, so there you go. The champions right now in WWE fucking own. TLC was a great Pay-Per-View & Smackdown on Friday was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, I like 2 of those champions. 3 in total when we include the tag belts.

Punk as champ is great. He's awesome, and done really well with it despite being involved in some shitty angles and being against some terrible wrestlers (oh hai Ryback).

Barrett is god awful. That being said, so was Kofi. IC title division has been terrible for some time. 

Del Rio I still don't give a fuck about. Him ending Show's dominant reign was the dumbest title decision WWE have made in some time. But he's fairly new at this babyface thing. MAYBE he'll improve and do ok. But for now I am not happy he's champ and I'm certainly not happy about how WWE went about ending Show's title reign.

Cesaro is cool. I likes him. Shame he's usually lumbered with terrible opponents though. Khali, Truth etc. And Miz looks to be the next challenger. Urgh. Give him some good opponents and he'll do even better.

Eve... well I don't mind Eve, but the divas title means fuck all. And so does the division.

Team Hell No are a great team, and aside from Rhodes Scholars, who the fuck else is there? PTP are average at their absolute best (and they aren't usually at their best), Usos are pretty crappy, Primo & Epic are shit, Mysterio & Cara aren't good either (Cara flat out blows, Mysterio hasn't been good since he returned)... and uhhh... that the division?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

People need to watch Vader's UWFi stuff. Incredible.



Starbuck said:


> Foley/Trips, Rumble is probably one of my GOAT matches ever. Love that thing to death. DAT FOLEY. DAT GAME. DEM SNOWFLAKES. ************ Wonderful to see Foley get inducted in a place with such significance to him not to mention the Mecca of WWE arenas. Really looking forward to that one.


(Y) Their HIAC match sucked, though.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

JoeRulz said:


> People need to watch Vader's UWFi stuff. Incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> (Y) Their HIAC match sucked, though.


I've seen one of those matches and it was pretty incredible. He was the perfect monster heel there and the crowd's reaction to the match was amazing. I found myself hoping against reason that the much smaller Japanese guy would someone pull out the win against him. I know I wrote up a review for it in the puro thread and I had it at like ****1/2


WWE TLC 2010 Review

I bought it at FYE the other day in a buy 1 get 1 free sale on new DVDs. Pretty awesome deal since I ended up paying $3.50 for this new.


_Ladder match for the Intercontinental Championship_
*Dolph Ziggler(c) w/Vicki Guerrero vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Jack Swagger
*
This was a lot of fun. You have 3 athletic guys that had the chance to show off. It worked really well here. Also I've seen so many ladder matches and there were still a bunch of spots that were new to me. There was good pacing, minimal disappearing from the guys in this (a plus in a multi-man ladder match). Another thing that I liked was that the main focus of the match was clearly to get the belt and it was just a frantic scramble to get the belt. Good stuff.
****1/4*


_Tables Match:_
*Laycool vs. Beth Phoenix and Natalya *

I really liked this a lot. I think it might be one of the best Divas matches that I've seen in the last 5 years or so, maybe even more. You had heels that everyone wanted to see put through a table and the fact that this was a tables match gave the fans something to look forward to. So on top of this being a good Divas this had a fantastic crowd for a Divas match. They built the table spot well with control of the match going back and forth between the two teams. A good match, not just a good Divas match.
***3/4*


_
WWE Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Santino Marrella and Vladamir Koslov(c) vs. Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel w/Nexus
*
Short and not very good. You had some comedic antics from Santino, his failed attempt at a leg sweep was pretty hilarious. Other than that there was a short control segment, a hot tag, and then a DQ ending. It was funny to see the heels cheat and actually get caught. Total filler.
***

_
Ladder Match:_
*Sheamus vs. John Morrison*

So watching this made me realize that the TLC PPV does have some positives. You wouldn't have a ladder match like this on a regular PPV because this doesn't fit the mold of what we would expect from a WWE ladder match. It's not a spotfest by any means and because of that it wouldn't be booked as the only ladder match on a PPV. This PPV format allowed me to see one of the best worked ladder matches that I've ever seen. It was a great match on it's own and the ladders were used to enhance the story being told. Sheamus focused his offense on the knee of Morrison. Morrison sold this as well as anyone could have. I don't think there was ever a moment where you didn't think his leg was hurt.

The selling was great the story was fantastic. It wasn't as spot heavy as a lot of other ladder matches but the spots in this were really good as there were a few things that I hadn't seen before. I loved the leg work on Morrison and how Sheamus used the ladder to really make it seem like Morrison was going to have to compete with one leg. As far as I know this was Sheamus' best match to date at this point (easily still top 5 now). I really can't think of anything bad to say about this. This is what a ladder is meant to be I think. I hope we see more matches like this. 
*****1/4*

_
Tables Match for the WWE Championship:_
*The Miz(c) w/Alex Riley vs. Randy Orton*

It was pretty good but not great. That's unfortunately what I have to say about most Miz matches that I see. It was really forgettable but again, there wasn't really anything wrong with it. You had some good heel antics with the Miz and A-Ri and I will admit that they did a good job of building up the table spot. There were some good false finishes and seeing Orton get increasingly frustrated with A-Ri helping the Miz was a a nice touch.
***3/4 *


_TLC Match for the World Heavyweight Championship:_
*Edge vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Kane(c)*

Well there were some cool spots. That's where the positives end though. I hated this. Most of the time they didn't even seem to care that they were supposed to get the title. Kane had everyone down and he was spending time outside the ring setting up tables. Guys would vanish for long periods time. Basically everything that I praised the Sheamus/Morrison match for not being this match was. No story, no point to any thing, and sloppy. I mean why the hell would you ever be fighting on the stage in a TLC match? The most infuriating part was seeing Edge, "The Ultimate Opportunist" climbing up a big ladder in the middle of the ring and jumping onto Kane, who was being held down by Rey Mysterio. Why wouldn't he just grab the belt? I know in some matches it made sense but not when you hear Edge talking about all the experience he has in these matches and then he goes and does something moronic.

As a spotfest it wasn't very good either. Mysterio had 2 awful looking botches. At two points ADR was just standing in the ring and staring at Rey waiting for him to hit his spot. Once ADR was actually on the ladder and the other time Rey was on the top rope and ADR just stood there looking at him waiting for him to jump. Sure there were some cool spots, but I'm an indy wrestling fan. I've seen a CZW Cage of Death from the second row. I don't watch WWE to see spotfests because they don't compare to what else I could go and see. Awful match, the only redeeming factor being the spots. 
****


_Chairs Match:_
*Wade Barrett vs. John Cena*

I loved the use of the office chair, that was pretty funny. I also loved that Punk was on commentary. There was also a few cool spots. Other than that this was boring for lack of a better word. The chairs did nothing to enhance the match, overall they were probably more of a detraction. Wade's control segment came across flat, which in turn made Cena's comeback suffer. It was just a really basic match with chairs used a lot more than needed. I guess I wouldn't call it bad but it's nothing I would go our of my way to see again.
***1/4 *​

Overall I liked the show even if the last two matches were complete let downs. Sheamus/Morrison was awesome and the rest of the undercard was at least solid. There's just no point in watching after the WWE Title match though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Great list mate, has anyone got this match, cant find it anywhere :sad:


I found it split in two parts on Youtube:











Maybe Foley adds it to his new DVD coming up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, watched 11 RR events so far (just posted #10 on my BLOG  ), and using my new fangled CAL SYSTEM (new and improved), the best RR event so far DESPITE HAVING THE WORST RR MATCH up to this point, is the 1995 RR!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I watch Bret/Diesel RR95 the other night. Damn was that a great WWF Title match. Bret was Diesel's best opponent ever. I loved how both men sold their injuries throughout that match and would do anything to be WWF Champion. The interference was basically used to keep both men strong without out one going over the other and made for good build to RAGE IN A CAGE so I didn't mind it. The Rumble match is great, KOTR from 94 was quality, and the Survivor Series 95 match is just classic. Bret-Diesel is another one of my all time favorite bigger man vs. smaller man combinations up there with Michaels-Taker and Sting-Vader (Sting wasn't that small but Vader was just a monstrous obstacle he had to take down).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I found it split in two parts on Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bloody brilliant mate, thanks very much.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Have Del Rio and BARRETT swap places and you'd have yourselves the best possible champion line-up in history.

Wade has been awesome lately. He's no in ring technician but he's extremely solid at best. Not to mention he's a fantastic promo as well.

EDIT- Just watched some of the retro Smackdowns that WWE uploaded onto their Youtube account and Triple H/Rikishi from the January 4th, 2000 edition of Smackdown is great, great fun.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

So got the flat to myself tonight, got a pizza some beers and the Mick Foley Greatest Hits and Misses set

Great night for me


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Speaking of Mick Foley I am super psyched for his new DVD set coming out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Am I the only one who would rank the Foley V Orton street fight over the Foley V HHH street fight?


No, you're not. For once, we're on the same page.

Didn't really enjoy Foley/Hunter much because it felt too dead with the poor crowd (specially for MSG standards) and just lacked the atmosphere Foley's no DQ matches have. Orton/Foley succeeded in every way and the crazy thing is, it's arguably not even the MOTN.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Alberto Del Rio vs. The Big Show
World Heavyweight Championship - Last Man Standing
Friday Night Smackdown - 1/11/13*

_*** 3/4_

A marvellous match, I must say. A great babyface performance from Del Rio, as well as the usual great monster heel schtick shown by The Big Show, both of which surrounded by an innovative and believably structure match makes this a legit TV MOTYC already. No by no means is this the perfect Last Man Standing match, and I doubt we'll see another (the one I'm talking about is HHH/Jericho). I adored the moment where Del Rio rolled out of the ring and on to his feet, even though he was completely out of it, but it still broke the count, and Show's reaction made it all that bit better. Speaking of which, Show's reactions to anything that doesn't go his way are amazing. Fuck, is it beyond reason to call him the GOAT big man? I dunno, but it'd be interesting to see people's lists of the best big men (say 325+ pounds? I dunno.) But yeah, Del Rio was on point with striking, and his work on the arm was nice and surprisingly works just as well when he's a face as it does when he's a heel. The finish was great, and JBL really put it over which was a bonus. Also, Ricardo's reaction and his announcement of ADR's name as the winner really put over their friendship, which is something that could get both men over crazily - How they're both so loyal to one another, even best friends, despite the fact that RR is on ADR's pay roll. I see Ricardo being a very interesting catalyst in Del Rio's future feuds. 

Anyway - A top notch match which not only proved why Show is one of, if not THE, best big men ever, but it also has won me over as a face Del Rio fan. I'm hoping we don't see Ziggles cash in too soon, because I think this Del Rio and Big Show feud has some legs. Del Rio vs. Ziggler vs. Ryback at Wrestlemania maybe? I don't know. But for the moment, I'm going to enjoy this ADR title run and if this match is anything to go by, then it will definitely be a lot of fun.​


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

I'll have to check out this Del Rio/Show match, probably a top 3 match of Del Rios career by the looks of it lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> *Alberto Del Rio vs. The Big Show
> World Heavyweight Championship - Last Man Standing
> Friday Night Smackdown - 1/11/13*
> 
> ...


Glad someone else enjoyed this. (Y)

I thought Del Rio did really well as the face and I absolutely love him having Ricardo in his corner. It's going to help him really well in the long run since Ricardo is so popular and their friendship is likable. JBL absolutely owned calling that match. Del Rio's face run has impressed me more than literally everything he did as a heel.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Orton vs. Foley in their Hardcore Match from Backlash 2004 is so underrated. Brilliant match. Brilliant feud. It's what brought Orton to the next level. Some of the best work both of those men have ever done.

That whole PPV was pretty fucking awesome, and was in my hometown!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton-Foley is Orton's best match IMO (yes, better than the Benoit series) and a ton of that is due to Foley's willingness to go the extra mile in order to put his opponent over. Not alot of guys can job and job and job and give as much back to the business as possible while still staying popular and Foley is the best at this, along with Jericho of course. I also believe that even though Foley-Orton rocked, I'd still put HHH-HBK-Benoit II over this by a considerable margin even though they hold the same SNOWFLAKES in my book (***** 1/2*).

Over the last 10 years, I think Foley has come back only to beat like one guy and that's Carlito. Since Carlito fucking SUCKS, I was completely cool with it. Case one of Carlito sucking ; Carlito vs Kennedy vs Umaga from Summerslam 2007, which I just watched........... AND IT FUCKING SUCKS. Kennedy is one of the worst workers in WWE history though so maybe it's not Carlto's fault. Umaga did all he could do for those too pieces of shit unfortunately


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> Orton-Foley is Orton's best match IMO (yes, better than the Benoit series) and a ton of that is due to Foley's willingness to go the extra mile in order to put his opponent over. Not alot of guys can job and job and job and give as much back to the business as possible while still staying popular and Foley is the best at this, along with Jericho of course. I also believe that even though Foley-Orton rocked, I'd still put HHH-HBK-Benoit II over this by a considerable margin even though they hold the same SNOWFLAKES in my book (***** 1/2*).
> 
> Over the last 10 years, I think Foley has come back only to beat like one guy and that's Carlito. Since Carlito fucking SUCKS,* I was completely cool with it*. Case one of Carlito sucking ; Carlito vs Kennedy vs Umaga from Summerslam 2007, which I just watched........... AND IT FUCKING SUCKS. Kennedy is one of the worst workers in WWE history though so maybe it's not Carlto's fault. Umaga did all he could do for those too pieces of shit unfortunately


I see what you did there :russo

But yeah, I wouldn't say he sucked, but I definitely can't remember a match of his that I would call "great". A useful hand, good for filler feuds, tag teams and/or enhancement talent, but I don't think he was good enough to hold the US/IC titles, especially with the depth of the roster at the time he won them at (05-07). I also agree with Kennedy, I absolutely can't stand the guy. He's used the same old schtick for close to eight years now, and it wasn't even that good in the first place.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

When Kennedy stopped feuding with The Undertaker. I stopped caring about his character & matches for the most part. Although he's had a couple matches with Angle in TNA in 2010 that I enjoyed (the ladder and cage matches). Then there was the HBK feud in late 07-early 08.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> ~ Undertaker vs Angle. It always works. I don't know what there is left to say that wasn't said by all others who have seen this match. I liked their Smackdown match from 2003 more. Doesn't take anything away from here. Hard to believe how flat out bad their very first match up was back at Fully Loaded 2000. The progression of both showed. Especially Angle. Taker brought out the best in him. Possibly better than anyone minus Austin. Crowd ate this up with a spoon and wanted thirds. It was hilarious how the crowd was dead the entire night & then shot to life when this began. what a DRAW. _(like really. Some people in the front row were sleeping till this match came on)_ Excellent match. The last GREAT singles Kurt Angle match I can recall him having. Undertaker would go on to have quite a bit more. b/c he's the best. As if we all don't know that fact already.


If this match had have been at Mania, I firmly believe we would be holding it up their on a pedestal as one of the best Mania matches ever, and certainly one of Taker's best matches.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Smackdown 01/11/2013 - Last Man Standing Match for the World Heavyweight Championship: Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio (w/Ricardo Rodriguez)* 

These two delivered a good match. The entire match was "spot, wait for count, set up spot, repeat" but that's what you're going to get from a Last Man Standing match. They did a good job telling the story of Alberto being unable to get the big man grounded and found a logical way to end the match. Good stuff. I think i would of enjoyed this more it WWE didn't spoiled it by announcing it on their website, Facebook and Twitter. This match was actually very well booked and allowed Del Rio to shine as best he can against Show. As I've said before, Del Rio will do better as a babyface since he can utilize his flashy Lucha offense much more often which people love to cheer for. ***1/2 I should add the roll put to the floor is one of the smartest things done in some time, cause normally wrestlers would try to stand up in the ring but for Del Rio to roll out onto his feet did make me mark. And then the finish with the announce table, GENIUS!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Orton-Foley is Orton's best match IMO (yes, better than the Benoit series) and a ton of that is due to Foley's willingness to go the extra mile in order to put his opponent over. *Not alot of guys can job and job and job and give as much back to the business as possible while still staying popular and Foley is the best at this, along with Jericho of course*. I also believe that even though Foley-Orton rocked, I'd still put HHH-HBK-Benoit II over this by a considerable margin even though they hold the same SNOWFLAKES in my book (***** 1/2*).


I COMPLETELY agree. Jericho, Foley, Shawn Michaels and Rey Mysterio are really the only people who pulled this off. Very rare select few people that can lose and lose and lose all the time, but still get the crowd to be extremely attached to them. Speaks to their characters really.

Just wondering, what was everybody on here's rating to the Christian/Del Rio Ladder Match from Extreme Rules 2011? I thought it was a BRILLIANT match and one of the best matches of the year. ****1/2

Infact, Del Rio/Christian really had some great matches. I remember they had a great Cage match on SmackDown before WrestleMania XXVII. Christian went over clean against Del Rio too :cheer

They really should've made it a Triple Threat between Edge/Christian/Del Rio at Mania


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Punter said:


> They really should've made it a Triple Threat between Edge/Christian/Del Rio at Mania


Bah! Christian should have won the MITB at WM 26 instead of Swagger. 

We could then have had a smart, logical programme between Jericho/Edge/Christian over the world title.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Well after a fair few hours of Foley goodness I think I love him even more

The man is a legend and deserves the hall of fame. The amount of punishment he took is unbelievable and it's the little spots he does which he doesn't need to but did because it made the match better and got a pop from the crowd that i love the most, the suplex onto the edge of the steel steps for example.

I love the street fight with HHH at RR 2000, just a great brawl which made HHH look amazing and Foley look crazy, I will always prefer this to the Orton one simply because it felt that much more intense imo.

I enjoyed the Mind Games match with Michaels a lot more than I have done in the past, Foley's character work is pretty phenomenal here and him and Michaels have really good chemistry.

His match with Vader from WCW Saturday Night is a great little TV match, Vader is brutal and Foley places the face role brilliantly, real gem of a match

Hell in a Cell with Undertaker is just special, the two falls from the cage add a lot to the match but they don't MAKE the match for me, the majority of the match is very good especially when you think what a mess Foley was in.

Overall a great way to spend a few hours, Foley is probably the wrestler I respect most in the world, someone who gave everything to the business but didn't overstay his welcome. A truly amazing creative mind and also one of the best talkers in history


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punter said:


> I COMPLETELY agree. Jericho, Foley, Shawn Michaels and Rey Mysterio are really the only people who pulled this off. Very rare select few people that can lose and lose and lose all the time, but still get the crowd to be extremely attached to them. Speaks to their characters really.


Don't forget Chris Benoit. He could lose even by tap out and still get a standing ovation afterward.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Christian Louboutin said:


> *WWE Smackdown 01/11/2013 - Last Man Standing Match for the World Heavyweight Championship: Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio (w/Ricardo Rodriguez)*
> 
> These two delivered a good match. The entire match was "spot, wait for count, set up spot, repeat" but that's what you're going to get from a Last Man Standing match.


I wouldn't say so. Maybe the end stretch but that is, like you said, true to all LMS matches.

:mark: :mark: :mark: 3/4 for this match. It's made me a fan of Del Rio.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

My Top 5 FAVOURITE Foley matches:

1. vs. Undertaker (Hell In A Cell) @ King Of The Ring 1998
2. vs. Triple H (Street Fight) @ Royal Rumble 2000
3. with Kevin Sullivan vs. The Nasty Boys (Chicago Street Fight) @ Slamboree 1993
4. vs. Shawn Michaels @ Mind Games 1996
5. vs. Terry Funk (Falls Count Anywhere) @ Raw Is War 1998


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My FAV Foley matches:

1. Vs Undertaker IYH: Revenge of the Taker 1997
2. Vs Austin Raw 1996
3. w/Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin Vs Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair Raw 12/04/2004
4. Vs HBK Mindgames 1996
5. w/The Rock Vs Undertaker & Big Show (Buried Alive Match) Smackdown! 07/09/1999


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

A team of Foley, Benoit, HBK & Benjamin. :mark:

I vaguely remember it but I need to rewatch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> A team of Foley, Benoit, HBK & Benjamin. :mark:
> 
> I vaguely remember it but I need to rewatch.


Its awesome. One of the very best of the amazing run of EVOLUTION VS THE WORLD tag matches in 04.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

I really need to watch more of Raw in 2004. The nostalgia factor of Evolution ruling Raw is brimming.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Evolution was pretty much the last great stable. I guess you could say the Shield is doing some good, but I'm still waiting for WWE to bury the fuck outta them. I just know that's coming. 

But yeah, Evolution was everything done right. From the formation to the breaking up. Orton/Triple H shoulda been at WrestleMania 21 though. For one, that would've been a better match, and second, we would then not have gotten that abortion of a match at WrestleMania 25. Double positives. Why did they hotshot the feud between Orton and Triple H?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I got done with Raw 2004 just a few months ago and I STILL feel the need of going back and watching it all over again. Perhaps with no Smackdown this time around so I can fully enjoy it. (because SD really slowed the experience down)

Take out Eugene, HBK/HHH's HIAC feud and the Diva Search... then I can call that year pretty much perfect. Benoit as World Champion and the rise of Randy Orton, my two favorite wrestlers. Can't get much better than that!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

HBK/HHH is just.....I don't know. 47 minutes? C'mon son. Was there a reason it was that long and waaay stretched out? 2004 was just HHH/HBK GALORE. And not in a good way. It seemed like they had matches every second pay-per-view.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punter said:


> HBK/HHH is just.....I don't know. 47 minutes? C'mon son. Was there a reason it was that long and waaay stretched out?


No reason other than trying too hard to make it ZOMGSOEPIC! just like the rest of their forced feud(s). Don't think I've seen a match that was as boring as that one. And the feud itself was absolutely TERRIBLE. They overreact as if they want to murder each other and HHH is looking for Shawn all over the damn arena before getting jumped from behind and having every fucking person in the backstage area "breaking it up". SO not into it I was. As much as I enjoyed Benoit/Kane, I think Bad Blood should've been Benoit versus either Hunter or HBK inside Hell in a Cell.

The terrible booking of Benoit's title reign aside, another problem was, as you mentioned earlier, the rushing of Orton's face turn. Made zero sense that he'd beat Benoit completely clean when HHH (or anyone else for that matter) couldn't and then lose the title less than a month later to HHH himself. I don't care how bad his backstage behavior was, if they were gonna push him, they should've gone full force with it rather than pull back. He was extremely over with the crowd and could've been a bigger star had they taken it easy and let him be in Batista's position for the eventual face turn leading into WM21's main event.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Hell in a Cell wasn't bad but it wasn't good either. Certainly not the worst hell in a cell match though. Some spots with the weapons they did were great but they took way too long to sell the moves. I understand that they need to show the audience the punishment of the hell in a cell match but they still took way too long to get up. If the match was 25 minutes then maybe it would have been an awesome match but 47 minutes is long.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Benoit was acting up backstage? What is this I hear...details?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Foley is great. I'm watching Mind Games right now. I could watch this match once a day everyday if I had to. The character development of HBK developing an edge and having to get down & dirty with the deranged Mankind is awesome to watch. HBK smacking Earl Hebner in the back of the head in (kayfabe) frustration at one point and tip-toeing around heelish tendencies for a 1st time babyface champion is interesting to watch. 

I love how this match has a hardcore edge/brawl-ish feel to it, but still manages to stay, at it's core, a wrestling match. At points it gets close to being more of a brawl (the spot through the announce table, HBK hitting Mick hard in that mask of his repeatedly), but these two greats mix in just the right amount of hardcore moments to give Shawn more of an edge (that he and the WWF both desperately needed at that time), and to further develop the Mankind character as a crazy fuck and someone who could hang with the world champion. They both got the rub here and both came out of this one for the better, which is the ultimate goal of every wrestling match. 

It's just a damn shame this was a one-off. Fuck Sid, I would have been all for HBK dropping the title to Mick at Survivor Series in a rematch at MSG.

I love this match.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

The Michaels vs. Mankind match from Mind Games is really getting a lot of love around here. Never watched it. Maybe I should :hmm:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

So WWE.com listed 50 greatest Raw matches and Shawn Michaels vs John Cena was #1 on the list. Does anyone agree with that?

I was hoping British Bulldog vs Owen Hart for the European title on Raw would be #1 but eh, Shawn Michaels vs John Cena is one of my favorite Raw matches that had me on the edge of my seat so I can't complain there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SmokeAndMirrors said:


> Speaking of Mick Foley I am super psyched for his new DVD set coming out.


Any date announced?



WOOLCOCK said:


> I think I'm just pre-conditioned into what I think a 'mask vs career' match should be worked as, and sadly it came off more like a typical Steen hardcore match than a true war which could separate itself from other matches. Like I said I just don't think Steen is a good 'brawler' compared to being a decent hardcore worker. His offence doesn't ever really look brutal or vicious and I just thought the whole thing lacked any real drama or oomph. Dead crowd obviously played a part in that by not reacting to largely anything but I guess Steen and Generico and ROH have different views on what a brawl should be. Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> I can't recall if you're much of a Lucha enthusiast, but watch this match as I'd call it a top 3 brawl of all time. Up there with the best Lawler fight:
> 
> ...


I knew it wouldn't go much beyond Steen teasing the early rip off of the mask. Only I can't remember if Steen was threatened with a DQ warning considering the rules of the Apuesta match with a mask on the line. I looked at it as ROH putting both of the highest stakes possible on the line only for the reason of adding more to the match since it was slated as the "final" battle, pun intended of course. My love of it does dwindle down more and more on rewatches, but I do like it. That's not gonna change. I think it loses its luster when compared to other matches. For what it was - I can dig it. I did think their Last Man Standing blew it away and suited Steen better b/c he wasn't trying to do crazy gnarly spots as he was just trying to ravage Generico to not make the count. Where as in the Fight Without Honor he could have tuned things up better. I'd be more confident in Steen's brawls if I saw the one vs Necro Butcher in a about April of 2008. Personally I think Steen shines when he's rolling in a traditional bout and lets his explosive offense shine on through. Plus, he's a great bully character too. It's what has driven the force in a lot of matches vs Generico.

I don't know if I would claim I'm a Lucha 'enthusiast' quite yet. I'm a fan of course. Love it plenty to appreciate and dig the grand matches/workers to every work down there. I'll favorite the match to witness the beauty of it. And by beauty, I mean the sheer sleaze I can expect from the dirty scoundrels brawling. Bulk of the Lucha I've watched lately has been featuring ***** Casas and his epic trips in what seems to be every Apuesta match EVER.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Just read about the In Your House release. First time using this smiley and damn happy about it. :mark:
It's more about the era for me though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another BOSS set on the horizon. All this year seems to have going for it is pumping out the nostalgia.

Fingers crossed Michaels vs Owen from Rage in the Cage & Razor/Kid vs Gunns from Great White North can make it on there. If Michaels vs Owen made the My Journey set already then scratch that. Make room for the good Razor vs Jarrett/Roadie Handicap match. Or CRYBABY match. Razor ruled those early events when he wasn't working vs Dean Douglas.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Another BOSS set on the horizon. All this year seems to have going for it is pumping out the nostalgia.
> 
> Fingers crossed Michaels vs Owen from Rage in the Cage & Razor/Kid vs Gunns from Great White North can make it on there. If Michaels vs Owen made the My Journey set already then scratch that. Make room for the good Razor vs Jarrett/Roadie Handicap match. Or CRYBABY match. Razor ruled those early events when he wasn't working vs Dean Douglas.



Excellent, more NG era matches. Thanks HS and yes, Razor was great.(sigh)I miss those days. Never saw the Douglas match but I do remember those Dean Douglas segments. Surprised they put the IC strap on him. On topic of Scott Hall, I have absolutely no recollection of any decent matches of his in WCW. Did he have any? I'm drawing a complete blank.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Douglas matches were bad. Douglas was decent in singles and Razor was the man so idk what went wrong.

Hall in WCW? Yeah, yikes. A total bust. I can name more Hogan matches that were honestly worth a watch. Hall's best match had to be the 6 man from Bash at the Beach. He completely lazed on his career the moment he got there. Character and charisma was always in tact, but ring work went straight down the drain. He had a match in 2010 that I thought blew away the bulk, if not the entire span, of his WCW tenure.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> The Douglas matches were bad. Douglas was decent in singles and Razor was the man so idk what went wrong.
> 
> Hall in WCW? Yeah, yikes. A total bust. I can name more Hogan matches that were honestly worth a watch. Hall's best match had to be the 6 man from Bash at the Beach. He completely lazed on his career the moment he got there. Character and charisma was always in tact, but ring work went straight down the drain. He had a match in 2010 that I thought blew away the bulk, if not the entire span, of his WCW tenure.



I still have bad memories of that World War 3 ppv. Was he acting purposely like he was drunk? That and him using the taser on Goldberg. I agree about the character and charisma, as that, aside from what I shared, is my memory of his time in WCW. I'm not interested in any recent matches of his. It pains me to see what he's become.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The drunk gimmick in the latter half of '98 was infamous. Making a gimmick on the bane of his existence, yeah that's what he needed.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> The drunk gimmick in the latter half of '98 was infamous. Making a gimmick on the bane of his existence, yeah that's what he needed.



Disgusting. Same thing with Hawk. I was young at that time, but I knew something was off and it didn't sit well with me. I developed a twisted sense of humour, but I draw the line at stuff like that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hawk's, oh lord. Falling off the stage. No words to follow that up.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> Any date announced?


April 16th and it's going to have a documentary too. I'm looking forward to the match list. Hopefully Foley/WWE features plenty of Cactus Jack gems from WCW like the ones I listed yesterday. I already have Bret's new DVD on pre-order. I'm anxiously awaiting that to arrive as well as the In Your House match list.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Seeing people heaping praise on Del Rio/Show from last night's Smackdown. I thought it was good but nothing more. Admittedly I wasn't very focused so I'll give it another watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> April 16th and it's going to have a documentary too. I'm looking forward to the match list. Hopefully Foley/WWE features plenty of Cactus Jack gems from WCW like the ones I listed yesterday. I already have Bret's new DVD on pre-order. I'm anxiously awaiting that to arrive as well as the In Your House match list.


YES!

I must own the Nitro, Bret, & IYH sets, but this is easily the one I'm most anticipating. First ever set I bought was Foley's Hit or Misses DVD. As a lifelong fan, I got to own this overdue set complete with Documentary in tact. I can't wait to own it. Match listing should hopefully be gold too. Don't skimp on the WCW matches WWE, please.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

And we all know how special Hell In A Cell with Undertaker was but we really don't need it on another set imo. It's on like 3 or 4 DVDs already. Foley has plenty of matches not on multiple sets that can go here. The Texas Death Match with Vader from Halloween Havoc '93 and the Submit or Surrender Match with Sting from WCW Pro in late '91 come to mind among others. I'm sure an ECW match or two will be on there.

Has anyone seen Foley's Deathmatches in Japan?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I was furious when the Deathmatch vs Vader didn't make it on his the GH&M set. Saturday Night match was good, but we all know Havoc is the stronger bout.

Doubt HIAC will make it considering all the praise it's received on sets and by Foley himself. I do think all Undertaker vs Foley matches have been put on DVD. Maybe a tag will be added. Don't know what is left, tbhayley. Certainly an ECW match will make the cut too. It's a given.

I've seen Foley's work in Japan. It's nuts. Can't recall any specific dates since I've viewed them here and there a bit ago, but if you like Foley or Death matches, then they're right up your alley.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I know Mankind/Taker from Survivor Series '96 is on the Survivor Series Anthology but that might not stop them from putting it on the Foley set. Or maybe the No Holds Barred Match they had on Raw in December that year. They should have at least one Undertaker match because he's one of his greatest opponent's ever imo.

This match isn't as good as their PPV matches in 96 & 97 but could be a rare addition to the DVD:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

It would be scandalous - SCANDALOUS I say - if the 1998 HIAC match doesn't make it to the DVD. Granted it's on loads of other DVDs and I must've seen it about 746 times, but not putting it on a career retrospective of Foley's career would be like not including Hogan vs. Andre on a Best Of Hogan DVD.

There's some good moments from his death matches in Japan. I've seen the whole of the KOTDM tourney and the matches bored me. There's a decent one with him tagging with The Headhunters against Funk, Leatherface and Nakamaki and a super singles bout with Funk with some iconic moments (the flaming branding iron just inches from Foley's face is an awesome visual) but I don't really see the appeal of most of his Japan stuff, except if you just love rampant garbage wrestling, the odd bump and explosions. Pales in comparison to his other stuff.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Okay, I think I know why I wasn't as high on Del Rio/Show as people seem to be. I don't think I watched the full match. The version I watched is only like 9 minutes long. It goes to commercial and comes back to the KO punch and the finish. Didn't see the barricade spot I've heard people mention or what happened with the second table.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah right, the Survivor Series match needs to be on a "set". I forgot since I own the RAW with the No Holds Barred match already that it still isn't on a DVD set, haha. I'm plenty down for one or two Undertaker matches to be added. He is his best opponent. No doubt.

For some reason I have a feeling his tag team championship win with Al Snow will make it. Perhaps it is wishful thinking. I want this chalk full of gems.

Yeah, Foley's deathmatches from Japan aren't special. They're fun enough for a look to see how he got so infamous over there.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

(Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TORNADO match. 

I recall myself and Brye pimping that match. It's quality.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

That's when I thought Alex Riley was the next big thing :lmao


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Punter said:


> (Y)



THAT.WAS.AWESOME. ***1/2

I read that while RAW/Smackdown have been hit-or-miss for a while, there's some match gems that can be appreciated. I'll try to watch Raw and Smackdown this week.

Edit: Punter, he could have gotten a chance if not for some _alleged_ backstage BS.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Curious to get you guys' thoughts on Cena/Orton at HIAC 2009, and for that matter their series of matches in late 2009.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punter said:


> That's when I thought Alex Riley was the next big thing :lmao


Well he sure seemed like he was going down that route. He was over with the fans too. Then poof. Over.

Spookshow, you're referring to 2011 & 2012 both? From 2012 Smackdown pumped out two of my personal favorites: Sheamus vs Tensai 8/3 & Cena vs Del Rio 11/30.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Curious to get you guys' thoughts on Cena/Orton at HIAC 2009, and for that matter their series of matches in late 2009.


I'm in the minority and enjoyed it for what it was. Only one match I found to be truly great and another was good while the rest were entertaining to an extent, but nothing to write home about.

Summerslam ~ **

Breaking Point ~ ****1/4 _(I still <3 it, but rating could fluctuate as I do need one more final watch of the entire event)_

Hell in a Cell ~ **1/2

Bragging Rights ~ ***1/2


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Spookshow, you're referring to 2011 & 2012 both? From 2012 Smackdown pumped out two of my personal favorites: Sheamus vs Tensai 8/3 & Cena vs Del Rio 11/30.



I've been out of the loop for a few months, probably since Sept/Oct. PPV wise even longer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I stand by my recs. They're quality bouts. Tensai's proves to everyone what he's capable about. Plus, continues the trend of Sheamus being the WWE MVP for 2012. Majority of his matches on TV or PPV were well worth seeing.

Oh, and Christian vs Drew McIntyre from Superstars is a must. Made my top 10 from last year.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Re-watching _Beyond The Mat _documentary right now. Haven't watched this in years. JR "As long as there's an ass every 18 inches, I'm happy" and Droz, vomiting, and Vince explaining his puking character. lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was a bit annoyed by the way they made Terry Funk look during it. Made his story feel like what he ended up with isn't worth it.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> I stand by my recs. They're quality bouts. Tensai's proves to everyone what he's capable about. Plus, continues the trend of Sheamus being the WWE MVP for 2012. Majority of his matches on TV or PPV were well worth seeing.
> 
> Oh, and Christian vs Drew McIntyre from Superstars is a must. Made my top 10 from last year.



Sheamus is a workhorse, no doubt about it. He had a match with Tensai and with Barrett on Raw (different dates) that I liked. Both matches were brutal and stiff as fuck. Tensai had welts all over his body and Sheamus was bleeding. Barrett received a black eye. His has some good matches with Ziggler, though I can't tell you which ones out of their bajillion bouts. He gets crapped on way too much.

Christian became a top ten favourite when returned in 2009, though I missed alot of Smackdown and his feud with Orton I've been reading about. I'm not high on McIntyre, so I should check some of his matches out. Still a shitload of matches to watch!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh trust me, if you enjoyed the RAW match between Sheamus vs Tensai, then the Smackdown match will be right up your alley. It's longer and much more complete of a bout for what they got to give us on RAW. Sheamus has to be Wade's best opponent. Their styles mesh nicely. All of their matches were legitimately good. Kept rising up till their really good contest on Main Event. Sheamus vs Dolph happens a ton and each time it's a blast. 

Give McIntyre another chance, tbhayley. He's great. Such a skilled worker. It baffles me how it push could have been taken away from him in a flash. Christian vs anyone is generally gold. Christian vs Drew? Forget about it. Stellar match series between the two.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Curious to get you guys' thoughts on Cena/Orton at HIAC 2009, and for that matter their series of matches in late 2009.


Summerslam ~ ****

Breaking Point ~ **** 1/4*

Hell in a Cell ~ *** 1/2*

Bragging Rights ~ *****

As a stand alone series, it's not bad at all.... But for what it's SUPPOSED to be (an epic OMG big time main event feud) it's fucking bullshit.. Watching Summerslam 2007 now in what I consider to be the second best match in the series next to the BLOW AWAY No Way Out match that beats out everything else they ever did by a mile.

Ugh, these 2007 PPVs are so hard to sit through, especially the Benoit/post Benoit ones up until about Cyber Sunday. That's because the undercard is comprised of guys like Chavo, Carlito, Kennedy, MVP and the like... Guys I don't care for in the slightest. Triple H's first few matches back were REALLY disappointing IIRC (not so much the Booker match, which was okay, but I'm rewatching NOW) , especially that FUCKFEST with Carlito.

Khali was world Champion feuding with Batista and Punk was stuck with guys like Elijah Burke. What the fuck. Around this point is what I'd consider to be the downpoint of the company since.. A while


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

Punter said:


> Evolution was pretty much the last great stable. *I guess you could say the Shield is doing some good, but I'm still waiting for WWE to bury the fuck outta them. I just know that's coming.*


:lol yeah, it's pretty much inevitable given the way WWE has been booking stables nowadays. Seems like now every time a hot stable takes off, they either bury them into obscurity or have them disband without further explanation. I feel bad for the Wade Barrett has been booked post-Nexus, tbh. Would hate to see a guy like Dean Ambrose stuck in midcard hell just like him.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> especially that FUCKFEST with Carlito.


lol, I remember everyone raging the fuck on here that he didn't put Carlito over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trips burying Carlito on PPV might be my favorite moment from him.

:mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Think I would have murdered someone at that point if Trips had to do the job to Carlito, the laziest piece of shit in WWE history. Not the worst by any means, just the laziest 

Here's a really interesting question... We've all talked about mark out moments and victories that made us go crazy and get our adrenaline pumping.... But have any of you guys watched a match that, even though you know is kayfabe, has a result that causes you to become upset ? Like if a sports team loses or something ?

Vengeance 2005 and Wrestlemania XXII pissed me off alot when I was a kid. Trips jobbing to Batista and Cena really fucking rubbed me the wrong way as a crazy Trips mark. Recently there have been a few losses that have pissed me off royally and caused me to act as if the Patriots lost the Superbowl ; Punk losing to Del Rio @ Summerslam because it killed all his momentum being one, Ryder losing to Swagger for the US title drove me crazy as well. The most obvious one would probably be Lesnar losing to Cena, but that seriously didn't affect me due to how great both performed, swear to god Brock has me cheering for Cena by the end of it  . KAYFABE LIVES.

I'm still a mark, because that's when Wrestling is at it's best :hhh unk2 :brock


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

I've always hated 2007 WWE. I usually consider it to be one of their worst years due to injuries plaguing most of the roster, the Benoit situation, or PPVs generally being lackluster.

Only highpoint was pretty much Jericho's return.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When Orton beat Punk at Extreme Rules 2011. My rage factor was so blown out of proportion it was outlandish. Like, I wanted to KILL someone. Namely Orton. I wished I still had my hate filled rant texts to my friends after that crap.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan. I wonder if Arn got a good match out of him.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan. I wonder if Arn got a good match out of him.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1l9d6_hulk-hogan-vs-arn-anderson_sport?search_algo=2#.UPKV1x001h0


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That's the one I watched.  Pretty decent match imo. 

ARN


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watching the Team HellNoBack vs the Shield TLC and holy shit it's fun. Those "Goldberg" chants though. Hilarious. :lol

Sorry for double posting, but I got to get this out of me.

Team HellNoBack vs The Shield TLC 2012 *****

That was fucking AWESOME! Kudos to all six men for giving it their all. I liked the pack (they kept saying that) mentality, one by one isolating each member of HellNoBack. This is how you introduce new talent on ppv (despite me not seeing the whole ppv :side. They fact that the Shield dominated the majority of the match especially since Ryback's there having his dominating periods, that should be some glitter of hope for future talent. The glitter of hope being a chance to shine and hopefully not have start-stop pushes. I'm not forgetting about Kane. I know there's guys older than him still wrestling and even participating in death matches, he showed that at 45 (?) the fire still burns. Daniel Bryan , the smallest guy in the match, showed the most tenacity going toe-to-toe with all three members of the Shield and taking a majority of the damage.

The paragraph above of cluttered thoughts may not be great, but I had to let that out.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Think I would have murdered someone at that point if Trips had to do the job to Carlito, the laziest piece of shit in WWE history. Not the worst by any means, just the laziest
> 
> Here's a really interesting question... We've all talked about mark out moments and victories that made us go crazy and get our adrenaline pumping.... But have any of you guys watched a match that, even though you know is kayfabe, has a result that causes you to become upset ? Like if a sports team loses or something ?
> 
> ...


As soon as I read the question I immediately thought of Punk at Summerslam 2011 as well lol. I was fearing that Punk would lose to Cena but then he won and I was so very happy. However Del Rio rolled out and stole it and I slammed my fists on the table and yelled 'NO! FUCK! NO!'. I remember it quite well and I was pretty damn annoyed for the rest of the day. I was so happy Punk beat Cena and was looking forward to a nice title reign but Kevin Nash and Del Rio took that away from me.

It's okay to be a mark sometimes. It's why I love wrestling so much. I can watch it on so many different levels and enjoy things on different levels in a way that no other form of entertainment can really provide.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A small part of me dies every time Undertaker loses. Which means I'm still mostly in tact 8*D.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry for the double post. 

I've been watching old Raw and PPVs for a while now. I started with early-mid 1996 and am now up to May 1998 (I never experienced it and only got into wrestling in 2005, and only properly started watching WWE TV in late 2010 and early 2011). I just watched Unforgiven 98 and thought it was a solid PPV. I was thinking I might start posting small reviews of the PPVs here.

*WWF Unforgiven 1998*

*Match 1: The Rock, D-Lo Brown & Mark Henry v. Ken Shamrock, Faarooq & Steve Blackman*
Not bad. The feud at the time was pretty good with the Nation turning on Farooq and he gets his revenge in this match which is always fun to watch. Perhaps a little too slow for a PPV opener though. Needed to be a bit quicker paced I think, but otherwise a fine match with a satisfying finish.

*Match 2: Triple H vs Owen Hart for the WWF European Championship*
Not a whole lot to say here. Solid match, nothing great, but fun. It is a little overbooked though with Chyna hanging above the cage which she then breaks out of. But all of that is only to cause a diversion as X-Pac runs in and hits Owen with something and Triple H gets the win and retains. Way too much happening and could have been a lot simpler. But hey it was entertaining.

*Match 3: The New Midnight Express vs The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express for the NWA World Tag Team Championship*
I had no idea that the NWA had any part in the WWE until I saw it. Nobody ever seems to talk about it, and for good reason I guess because it's all pretty damn forgettable. Didn't even pay attention to most of the 7 minute match. I knew it was only filler for the next hotly anticipated match. Don't remember who won, probably the Midnight Express to retain, I think.

*Match 5: Luna Vachon vs. Sable in an Evening Gown match*
Wasn't even being sarcastic when I said 'hotly anticipated'. The crowd was standing up for it and were quite loud the whole way through. It's amazing to think that this was probably a major reason for people paying for this show. The women's match wasn't just the bathroom break it is now. Funny, you could actually see people getting up during the previous tag team match to go to the bathroom BEFORE this match. Anyway. It's an evening gown match. It's a bit of fun for a few minutes. I think Luna won this match but who cares because Sable's chest... just... my god. Uh... next match!

*Match 6: New Age Outlaws vs. LOD 2000 for the WWF Tag Team Championship*
I actually skimmed through this match (not a very good reviewer am I?) because I got bored pretty quick. Sorry. LOD won the match but because the belt was in the ring when NAO tried to use it to win the ref reversed the decision. NAO retained.

*Match 7: Kane vs The Undertaker in an Inferno Match*
This was nowhere near as bad as I thought it might be, and saying that, their WM 14 match was nowhere near as bad as I thought it might be either. Both matches were actually pretty good. This one perhaps more so, I'm not sure. At one point Kane is on the outside and Vader returns (he hadn't been seen in months after being taken out by Kane if I remember correctly) to attack Kane. Taker dives over the top rope on to the both of them with the added danger of the flames in a pretty great spot. I've seen him do it heaps of times and the one at WM 14 where he went through the announce table is perhaps more spectacular but it's still incredible to watch him do it every time. I'd say the way it's shot in this match gives a better visual. Anyway Undertaker gets his revenge on Paul Bearer finally and then wins by setting Kane's arm on fire. Of course, you can tell that there is a cover of some sort over his forearm to stop the fire from spreading but it's still kinda cool.

*Match 8: Dude Love vs. Stone Cold for the WWF championship*
Pretty fun main event. But I'm quite sure they had another match that I saw a while ago and was better than this one. I could be wrong though. Still, a good match. McMahon had come out to ring side to re-enact the screwjob, which they had been teasing on Raw. Stone Cold hits Vince with a steel chair kind of accidentally-on-purpose... maybe. He gets DQ'd for that but of course retains the title. So yeah, another overbooked ending but again, it was entertaining and pretty silly, so whatever.

PPV goes off the air with McMahon being put on a stretcher. I can see how fans at the time would have loved this. 

Overall the show is okay. There are some good matches but nothing really great (the inferno match comes close) and not really worth going out of your way to see IMO. I'd give it a 6/10

Also for some reason Jeff Jarrett had some concert with some guy for some reason and I just skipped through it. Then he got attacked by Steve Blackman but then got the upper hand on Blackman. I really can't stand Jeff Jarrett and also had no idea he was with the WWF at all until I started watching the old stuff.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Smackdown was pretty good this week. Cesaro/Orton was fine for what it was and Del Rio/Show was p. great as well.

If I needed to put STARS~! onto them, I'd go with **1/4 for Cesaro/Orton and ***1/2 for Del Rio/Show. I probably would have enjoyed Del Rio/Show more had I not known who won going in but it was still p. great.

Also, the Dwayne/Sandow/Rhodes promo was just fantastic. Sandow is GOAT and Rhodes was good in his role as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 14 Undertaker/Kane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inferno match. And I enjoy the inferno match. But still, surrounded by fire limits them immanently. They did the best they could .

OVER THE EDGE is the Austin/Dude Love title match you are thinking of. Its awesome. ****1/2 and the absolute BEST Austin match from the 98/99 period.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good point about the fire, it does limit them but at the same time adds a cool, element to the match. I may have to watch their WM 14 match again to say which one I think is better. This one is fresh in my mind and it's been about a month since I saw the WM one. I'll watch it tomorrow.

And I didn't realise it was at Over the Edge. Thought it was in 99 or something. But anyway, awesome, that means I will get around to it pretty soon. I noticed a few pages back that somebody brought up the Mankind/HBK match from Mind Games. Thought I'd say that I really loved that match too.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I'm re-watching 98 at the moment as well (started with the night after WM14). I find myself skipping a lot of the undercard. There's only so many Shamrock/Blackman matches I can watch, and as awesome as the Oddities ICP song is, I really don't have any desire in watching them wrestle the Godwinns. LOD 2000 () and DOA have a feud that seems to go on forever. There's that awful Hawk storyline, and a lack of much GREAT wrestling. The undercard is still pretty weak at this point (despite having guys like Jarrett, X-Pac, and Owen).

Still, the main-event is really starting to take shape. Austin, Taker, Kane, Mankind, McMainMan~!, with Rock, Trips and Outlaws on the rise.

Austin/Dude 0TE is on another level.

Funk/Foley FCA = best 98 Raw main event I've seen so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of 1998, just posted my thoughts on the 1998 Royal Rumble even in my blog .

Finished watching 1999 too. Worst. Royal Rumble. Ever. That's both RR Match AND RR PPV. Now to watch Saturday Morning Slam! CAMERA CUTS! DIZZY! YEY!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Continuing the trend of 1998 PPVs (which is arguably my favourite year in all of wrestling with 1997):

ROYAL RUMBLE 1998

*Vader vs. The Artist Formerly Known As Goldust w/ Luna* - Average opener but with a cool finish. Vaderbomb on Goldust with Luna on his back - her face almost smashes into the canvas, could've been painful. **1/2

*Max Mini, Mosaic and Nova vs. Battalion, El Torito and Tarantula* - Minis match, ugh. Great athletes but their matches sucked. Sunny was the ref. Make your own jokes. Meh. *

*Intercontinental Championship: Ken Shamrock vs. The Rock {c}* - The Rock was still being called 'Rocky Miavia' at this point but not for long. Average match with a bullshit finish. Rock hits Shamrock with brass knuckles then hides them in Shamrock's tights. Shamrock wins the match but then Rock appeals to ref about the knuckles and reverses the decision. Lame. **1/4

*Tag Team Championship: Legion Of Doom vs. New Age Outlaws (c)* - Rematch from the D-Generation X PPV the previous month. These two seemed to have about a million matches against each other. Hawk gets handcuffed to the ringpost but then breaks the cuffs and goes apeshit on the Outlaws with a steel chair. **

*Royal Rumble Match* - Two minute intervals (which is what it should always be dammit). Cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie are numbers 1 and 2, making it the most entertaining beginning to a Rumble I've ever seen. Foley appears three times as Cactus, Mankind and Dude Love. If you had been watching Raw for the weeks prior to this event, I think it was fairly safe to say you knew who was going to win. A number of guys pull off Iron Man performances (Rock, Bradshaw, 8-Ball, Goldust, Phineas) which means the match just dragged. Austin wins perhaps the most easily predictable RR match in history, but nonetheless, thanks to the hot opening and the match picking up momentum when Austin entered, was fun. ***1/2

*Casket Match for the WWF Title: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels {c}* - The infamous match which almost ruined HBK's career. The spot in question is fairly innocuous as Michaels is backdropped over the top rope and his back hits the casket, but wouldn't be aware of the full effects of the injury until afterwards. With the 1994 RR casket match still in the memories, New Age Outlaws and Los Boricuas attack Undertaker, only for KANE to make the save. Kane then turns on his brother and chokeslams him into the casket. Match was fairly short. Kane then sets the casket on fire and The Undertaker dies at the Royal Rumble AGAIN. The man doesn't have much luck at his event. ***1/2


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Extreme Rules 2012*

*Falls Count Anywhere*
Randy Orton vs. Kane ***

Brodus Clay vs. Dolph Ziggler **

*Tables Match for Intercontinental Title*
Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show **1/2

*2 out of 3 Falls for World Heavyweight Title*
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan ****1/2

*2 on 1 Handicap*
Ryback vs. Jobbers - DUD

*Chicago Street Fight for WWE Championship*
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho ****

*Divas Title Match*
Layla vs. Nikki Bella - DUD

*Extreme Rules Match*
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar ****1/2 (Match of the Night)

Overall - 8/10


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> TORNADO match.
> 
> I recall myself and Brye pimping that match. It's quality.


Hell yeah, love that match. (Y)

And I watched Backlash '04 last night, here's some SNOWFLAKES.

Benjamin/Flair - **1/2
Coach/Tajiri - 1/4*
Jericho vs Christian/Trish - ***1/4
Victoria/Lita - **
Orton/Cactus Jack - ****1/2
Hurricane/Rosey vs La Resistance - 1/2*
Edge/Kane - **
Benoit/HHH/HBK - ****1/2

Really solid show with two epic matches.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Wrestlemania XXVIII*

*World Heavyweight Title Match*
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - DUD

Kane vs. Randy Orton **

*Intercontinental Title Match*
Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes *

*Tag Team Match*
Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos vs. Beth Phoenix & Eve - DUD

*Hell in a Cell Match (Special Ref: Shawn Michaels)*
Undertaker vs. Triple H ****

Twelve Man Tag Team Match **

*WWE Championship Match*
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho ***3/4

The Rock vs. John Cena ***

Overall - 6/10


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> I was a bit annoyed by the way they made Terry Funk look during it. Made his story feel like what he ended up with isn't worth it.


Completely agree man. But there is no twisting or sugarcoating Jake Robert's story. The man was so talented and gifted in the art of wrestling psychology in character and in the ring. I love how he said his matches start when he walks through the curtain. That is a true talent and professional, and I think we need more guys with that type of mind for performance. It's just a shame all the fuck up stuff he has gone through in his life, so his family's fault and some his own personal demons.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> Hell yeah, love that match. (Y)
> 
> And I watched Backlash '04 last night, here's some SNOWFLAKES.
> 
> ...


Awesome PPV and that's pretty much all down to the two big matches (hardcore & triple threat). Flair/Shelty was okay as was Jericho/CC & Trish but I don't remember or care about anything else.

And Edge was absolutely terrible that year until his heel turn. Fans were booing him everywhere and even having him go against Evolution failed to work. Then he turned heel and had his character freshened up big time. Other than his matches with Orton and Benoit, that was a terrible comeback. That Kane match was specially bad. IIRC, there was some "You both sucks" chants taking place during the match, or maybe I just misheard it.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Wow, how do I have zero recollection of Ziggler/Clay ever happening.

ER:
Cena vs Lesnar ****3/4
Bryan vs Sheamus ****1/2
Jericho vs Punk ***1/4

WMXXVIII
Jericho vs Punk ****
HHH v Undertaker ****1/4
Rock v Cena **3/4


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I don't get why everyone loves Rock/Cena so much. That match was just 10 minutes too long. 17-20 minutes was the ideal time for that match. Tried to rewatch it a couple times but I just can't get through all of it. I always stop midway. 

Also, what was everyone around here's opinion on the Edge/Del Rio Ladder Match from Extreme Rules 2011?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You mean Christian/Del Rio Ladder Match? 

Its awesome. Easily the best Del Rio match ever. Along with the other Christian matches and... uhhh... yeah.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Big Z said:


> You mean Christian/Del Rio Ladder Match?
> 
> Its awesome. Easily the best Del Rio match ever. Along with the other Christian matches and... uhhh... yeah.


How dare I. I fucking suck. Yeah, I thought so too


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Punter said:


> Also, what was everyone around here's opinion on the Edge/Del Rio Ladder Match from Extreme Rules 2011?


:vettel _The one that never happened._ 

Christian v Del Rio was super though. At least ****1/2 for just the match, *******9/8 for everything else. It is a very special match and definitely one of my favourites.

As for Rock v Cena, it was very atmospherical. But when the hype is stripped away, it's just two gassed guys going for ten minutes longer than they should have. Finishing sequence is still great, though. Just everything else wasn't


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

It might as well have been Del Rio/ Edge from the way the showed it on TV. Making Christian to be a bitch who only won cause of Edge despite Del Rio having Clay and RICARDO.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm still bitter at that two day championship run. Christian deserved recognition for all the work he had done and all the amazing matches he has had. Vince was an absolute dick about it. Inexcusable.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> It might as well have been Del Rio/ Edge from the way the showed it on TV. Making Christian to be a bitch who only won cause of Edge despite Del Rio having Clay and RICARDO.


:$ That's ALL you took from his title win, really?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I loved the whole match . Christian winning is probably in my top 5 moments in wrestling. Just saying how I thought WWE presented the ending on TV following the PPV.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh, right, on TV. I remember the RAW after was Rock's birthday so they didn't do much with him there, and I couldn't see anything through the red mist of mark rage for the Smackdown after, so...


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Very rarely does WWE get to me on a level like it did when Orton got the title on Smackdown. They could have at least had him hold it to the next PPV , it wasn't like they were feuding for 5+ months or anything.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I am a huge Orton mark and even I was rooting for Christian during their feud. It's absolutely despicable how they mistreated his main event opportunity. Fuck you Vince.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Extreme Rules 2011 was all in all an AWESOME PPV that got overlooked last year. Orton/Punk in a Last Man Standing Match was fantastic, Kofi/Sheamus was great with a good finish, Mysterio/Rhodes was awesome (DEM "HOLY SHIT CHANTS" and TAJIRI GREEN MIST :mark, Kharma's debut, Miz/Cena/Morrison was really good, and of course a MOTYC in Christian/Del Rio which should have been the main-event and had one of the best feel good moments in recent history.

I recall giving that entire event a 10/10. AWESOME PPV. Every match delivered. Might have to go rewatch that one.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Punter said:


> Extreme Rules 2011 was all in all an AWESOME PPV that got overlooked last year. Orton/Punk in a Last Man Standing Match was fantastic, Kofi/Sheamus was great with a good finish, Mysterio/Rhodes was awesome (DEM "HOLY SHIT CHANTS" and TAJIRI GREEN MIST :mark, Kharma's debut, Miz/Cena/Morrison was really good, and of course a MOTYC in Christian/Del Rio which should have been the main-event and had one of the best feel good moments in recent history.
> 
> I recall giving that entire event a 10/10. AWESOME PPV. Every match delivered. Might have to go rewatch that one.


I actually put Extreme Rules 2011 over Extreme Rules 2012 just for Christian's title win. Was an epic moment to see my all time favorite wrestler finally winning the World Title with help from his best friend, and my second favorite wrestler of all time Edge. Agreed about it was one of the best the feel good moments in recent history, so much emotion when he finally won the title, crowd going wild, the embrace between Edge and Christian, the tears shed by them, the realization that Christian finally won the big one after years of seeing Edge do it, the atmosphere was crazy. Christian had great momentum from that win, they could used that to establish him as a top babyface on Smackdown for a few months taking over from where Edge left off, with a decently booked reign of a few months, but instead they flushed that all down the drain just to give Randy Orton another pointless reign as Champion and force him as the new top dog of Smackdown. Which led to a painful feud between the two in which Christian never look strong, or even credible against Orton, but the matches were very good though. Their OTL encounter and their Summerslam matches being epic and potential MOTY candidates.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Completely agree. Orton/Christian has to be the WORST feud of all time with some of the greatest matches. Orton/Christian from Over The Limit 2011 is GOAT. Rewatched that match recently and felt like it was 5 minutes as opposed to 16. Everything flowed so GREATLY it was ridiculous. One of the best matches from both mens careers. 2011 was a great in-ring year IMO. I easily name 20 or so 4 star + matches from the WWE alone.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The actual fued had the potential to be so much better/


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Of course it did. But then they had to make Christian Orton and Sheamus's bitch for the rest of the year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Which is so frustrating. They should've had Christian win the title in 2005.

The Steiners vs Road Warriors from 11th March 1996 Nitro is a pretty good tag team match. Really enjoyed it. SCOTT STEINER FRANKENSTEINER


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Completely agree man. But there is no twisting or sugarcoating Jake Robert's story. The man was so talented and gifted in the art of wrestling psychology in character and in the ring. I love how he said his matches start when he walks through the current. That is a true talent and professional, and I think we need more guys with that type of mind for performance. It's just a shame all the fuck up stuff he has gone through in his life, so his family's fault and some his own personal demons.


Not at all. I can't believe the life Jake has had. It doesn't surprise you to know why he has the demons he has. But, crazy thing is, he's alive. It might sound like a bleak comment, I know. But we ALL know how demons in the world of wrestling can go down. Would someone have guessed Rick Rude wouldn't be here today and Jake Roberts would? It's...very dark. Only glad the man is still around and trying to beat the demons one final time. 

As for his talent. Unbelievable. He's on a different level than most. I'll firmly stand by that. The way he approached his matches was godly. He knew this biz and how to work. It makes you wonder what if he did get his main event heel push vs Hogan. He's already a legend held in high regard _(despite his negatives)_. Only imagine what could have been. That seems to be tossed around far too much in this world of wrestling.

Finally watched Extreme Rules 2011 last week. Here are my quick thoughts on it.

*Extreme Rules 2011​*
1) CM Punk vs Randy Orton ~ ***1/2

2) Sheamus vs Kofi Kingston ~ **3/4 _(One of the better Kingston matches of his career)_

3) Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross vs Jack Swagger & Michael Cole ~ DUD

4) Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes ~ ***1/2 _(LOVED this)_

5) Layla El vs Michelle McCool ~ DUD _(Kharma debut post match was :mark_

6) Christian vs Alberto Del Rio ~ ***3/4

7) Kane & Big Show vs Wade Barrett & Ezekial Jackson ~ 1/2*

8) John Cena vs Mike Mizanin vs John Morrison ~ ***1/2​
Good show.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I forgot Cena/Miz/Morrison. May have to rewatch that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked it. Starship Pain off the top of the cage OWNED.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm just showing my love for THE STEINERS. Good matches every time they've appeared on nitro so far.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Instead, they give no notice to Christian and his awesome mic work in 2005 and he takes his talent to South Beach :no:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

STEINERS. I always jump to Bash at the Beach '97 when it comes to a latter 90's Steiners tag match. I think it's b/c I'm a stupid Japanese mark.

By the time February 2006 rolled around every Christian fan was happy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Cena-Christian-Jericho could've been so much better.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Belfast Bruiser vs Macho Man :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Cena-Christian-Jericho could've been so much better.


****. I was a FAN.

oh and FINLAY vs SAVAGE :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I meant the fued. And Christian winning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian had no chance to win. WWE killing the push by moving him to Smackdown was awful though. Could have kept him credible till it was time to put the strap on him.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> ****. I was a FAN.
> 
> oh and FINLAY vs SAVAGE :mark:


Probably would give it the same rating. It's a real enjoyable match. And if we're going to play fantasy booking for a second, then I would of had Christian win. Christian was at his absolute PEAK at the time, his Captain Charisma character was the best thing in wrestling at the time imo, he was over, was moving merchandise, in addition to being a great talker and worker, I think they could of had Christian win the belt and only hold for a month or two, drop it back to Cena, and it wouldn't of hindered Cena's rise to the top AT ALL.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Probably would give it the same rating. It's a real enjoyable match. And if we're going to play fantasy booking for a second, then I would of had Christian win. Christian was at his absolute PEAK at the time, his Captain Charisma character was the best thing in wrestling at the time imo, he was over, was moving merchandise, in addition to being a great talker and worker, I think they could of had Christian win the belt and only hold for a month or two, drop it back to Cena, and it wouldn't of hindered Cena's rise to the top AT ALL.


Certainly not, but the plan was set in motion for it to be Jericho to challenge John-boy and depart from the company. I know fantasy booking is what you were referring too, and I would be right there with you, I'm only trying not to excite myself with the ever popular WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN awesomeness again. I do it far too much as it is. Mostly with Eddie Guerrero & Owen Hart. </3.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Certainly not, but the plan was set in motion for it to be Jericho to challenge John-boy and depart from the company. I know fantasy booking is what you were referring too, and I would be right there with you, I'm only trying not to excite myself with the ever popular WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN awesomeness again. I do it far too much as it is. Mostly with Eddie Guerrero & Owen Hart. </3.


Yeah. Christian seemed filler in the feud when he shouldn't of been. Christian and Cena had an issue with each other since The 2005 Royal Rumble, and not to long later when Cena was drafted to RAW, his issue with Christian resumed on that Highlight Reel episode. But when Jericho's surprise heel turn happened, nearly all the focus was placed on Jericho/Cena and Christian seemed lost in the shuffle. They continued with Cena/Jericho up until Jericho left, and they threw Christian away like trash by sending him over to Smackdown and booking him worse on there. Christian's last match in the company before he left was on Velocity, it's no wonder he left, they really dropped the ball on him at the time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian should have won that 6 man match on SD for the SD title, before Batista was revealed as the last draft pick bringing over the WHC. Start a feud between those two, have JBL come into it to lengthen it a bit, then eventually give Christian the belt towards the end of the year. Oh man, Christian Vs Undertaker for the WHC in 06? YES PLEASE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian was in the thick of it, until post Vengeance. That's all the program was apparently for. Which leads us to ask why build him up only to lower him by the time he got to Smackdown. Why wasn't he a top contender vs Batista? I know the Hassan plan fell through. Perfect timing for Christian to swoop in. Latter months with Eddie involved could have still left Christian on top. It's bogus. The final straw was if fans would vote for him at Taboo Tuesday. They didn't. Which he probably knew would occur. So he split. It was for the best at the time. Only, it seems pardon 2009, Vince isn't intent on using him on a much bigger main event level. Tis a shame. His work in 2009 should have proven to Vince that he can both draw and work on the level of a main event capacity. 

At least he got the World Championship twice. Say what you will about how long each were. He still got them. Those moments can't be replaced.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Only, it seems pardon 2009, Vince isn't intent on using him on a much bigger main event level. Tis a shame. His work in 2009 should have proven to Vince that he can both draw and work on the level of a main event capacity.


Wasn't really hard to main-event on ECW. It being the clear C show at the time, beneath both RAW and Smackdown (in credibility of course, I'm not talking about match quality at the time). He was booked well on ECW, but the show wasn't really a big deal. And yes his work was great then, it should of showed Vince, but I wouldn't be surprised if Vince wasn't paying much attention to ECW at all at the time. Christian should of been the one to retire the belt when ECW finished, but they just had to give that honor to Ezekiel Jackson. :no: 

Think about where Ezekial Jackson is now and remember that he was the last ECW Champion. fpalm 



Hailsabin said:


> At least he got the World Championship twice. Say what you will about how long each were. He still got them. Those moments can't be replaced.


(Y)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> Cena-Christian-Jericho could've been so much better.


Ah, I remember that feud. Great stuff. I loved the Highlight Reel between Christian, Cena, and Jericho with Cena rapping on Christian. I would have preferred to see Christian vs Cena for the WWE title instead of Jericho vs Cena IMO. Nothing against Jericho but Christian and Cena had much more chemistry with each other that would have made for a pretty entertaining feud. Too bad he was moved to Smackdown and was put in a forgettable feud with Booker T. :sad:


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Taker v Kane from WM 14 and would definitely put it above the Inferno match. 

It's been ages since I saw Extreme Rules 2011 but I do remember that it was a good show. Might watch the Ladder match and the Punk/Orton match again to refresh my memory as it's a bit hazy for those two matches.

I also just realised that I never ended up seeing Christian/Orton from Over the Limit. I don't know if I saw the Capital Punishment match either. I know I saw the others including the Smackdown matches though. They were all excellent.

Edit: I might just watch the whole series in order.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Should of been Cena/Christian feud


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian's promo from Backlash 2005 IMO.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Wrestlemania VI*


This is the first time I've seen this event in its entirety (just got the Anthology....after long, long last):


--*Koko B. Ware vs Rick "The Model" Martel ★ 3/4* Despite the score this was a decent opener. It was kinda fun the technical style of Martel and the quick paced Koko didn't do bad at all. 
.
--*WWF Tag Team Championship: The Colossal Connection Andre The Giant & Haku (c) vs Demolition ★*
Man I never knew Andre was a tag champion, nor did I know he tagged with Haku. This is why I love the classics, you learn something new when you watch them. This was basically Haku vs Demolition as Andre did little to nothing. The face turn for Andre got over hugely though, I have to admit I even got really into it. 
.
--*Earthquake vs Hercules DUD*
Wow...this was like a Superstars match. It was obviously supposed to highlight Earthquake's size and nothing else. 
.
--*Mr. Perfect vs Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake ★/b] 
A little bit of Perfect goes a long way. Wrong guy won....really shitty ending but Perfect did an awesome job even on the losing end. 
.
--Bad News Brown vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper ★ 3/4
Piper being painted half-black is ridiculous, I couldn't ascertain the reasoning for it. I've seen his documentary where he explained it but I forgot. I think he said its got something to do with Michael Jackson. Its dangerously close to Minstrelsy...low key it might actually be but I'm not offended. 

The match itself was pretty well booked. Both guys no-selling each other and brawling to a DQ was actually an understable finish, even if it isn't the most satisfying. 
.
--The Bolsheviks vs The Hart Foundation DUD
WTF was that? A 15-16 second squash....the fuck is the point of that?
.
--The Barbarian vs Tito Santana ★ 
The Barbarian has an awesome look. The haircut, tassels, face paint combination really works, even if it does stray from him being a "barbarian". He's not much of a worker however even if I did thoroughly like the flying clothesline. 

Vince's booking of big guys is basically "you take hits but you never go down" it makes sense but when you have 10-15 guys on the roster to book like that it gets tiresome. 
.
--Mixed Tag Team Match: Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire vs "The Macho King" Randy Savage & "Sensational" Queen Sherri ★ 3/4 
I love over the top nicknames in wrestling...and "Sensational Queen" takes the motherfuckin' cake! The early booking of this match is ridiculous. Sapphire is doing airplane spins and hip bumps, Sherri & Savage running into each other and looking like incompetent goofs not former champions. 

Rhodes vs Savage created some good exchanges, however they didn't have enough time to make up for the gimmick they were saddled with, the match was entertaining nonetheless I suppose, it was what it was and the crowd ate it up. 

Savage ranting after the match (★ ★ ★ ★ ★) "suffering builds character and your gonna learn a whoole lot of character!!!" LMAO
.
--The Orient Express vs The Rockers ★
Decent match. Nothing really wrong with it except the ending and how short it was. 
.
--Dino Bravo vs "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan DUD
A total mess, both these guys are slugs...

.
--"The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts ★ ★ ★ 
FINALLY a well worked, meaningful, full length match!! Good psychology early with Jake trying to end the match quickly. Ted is in all his heel splendor when in control making the crowd totally behind Roberts as a babyface in peril. Roberts big comeback was a little slow but considering that he's still selling DiBiase's beating its to be expected. 

The finish wasn't any good but then again the heel went over, and good heels take a "win at all cost" stance most times. An enjoyable match, they probably could and have done better but in comparison to the card thus far its MOTN. The post-match DDT got a huge pop, the crowd needed that.
.
--Akeem vs The Big Boss Man DUD
Despite DiBiase jumping him before the match Boss Man still made short work of an at least 400lb Akeem....just a total waste of time. 
.
--"Ravishing" Rick Rude vs "Superfly" Jimmy Snuka 
★ 1/2 
Pretty by the numbers but I like it. Some good back and forth with a definitive finish. Rude looked good but not dominant, and Snuka didn't look bad in a loss. It was a little short but that's par for the course on this event. 

.
--WWF World Heavyweight and Intercontinental Championship: World Wrestling Federation World Heavyweight Champion Hulk Hogan vs Intercontinental Champion The Ultimate Warrior 
★ ★ ★ ★ 
The promos before the match are out of fuckin bounds. I'm not sure what they wrestling for, the title or the fans's love. If they politicking for the fans's love then Warrior wins, he wants to bring everyone together, Hogan wants to "save" Warrior & his fans on some cult leader shit... 


As much as I dislike both these guys I would be lying if I said this doesn't feel BIG. I mean even after decades, this match endures when it comes to sheer atmosphere. Vince obviously put all his eggs in this match, he didn't even set up a decent plan B show stealer in case they didn't do well. 


The test of strength is incredibly basic but the crowd and the story of two great powers colliding makes it meaningful. The minimalist approach of storytelling over workrate actually applies heavily obviously. The booking is dead even, with neither guy having any distinct advantage early on. 


Hogan is being more aggressive, complaining to the ref and taking cheap shots, letting Warrior play face in peril. Warrior's big comeback doesn't have the crowd as riled as it should sadly, its an interesting dynamic to see how Hogan deals with someone no-selling and making a comeback during his offense but I guess they didn't get the irony.


Hogan busting up Warrior's 5 moves of doom was cool. I never peeped that before, the crowd seemed to like it too. The Gorilla Press of Hogan was pretty sloppy but Hogan is a big man. Hogan "hulking up" got the people a little more excited than Warrior's but there was still a big segment that didn't respond. 

The finishing sequence was cool, of course Hogan kicking out to create the appearance of a fluke or controversy was actually useful if there was a rematch planned. I am a 100% full supporter of Hogan handing the title over to Warrior too....we know these things were probably done to appease Hogan's ego but they made for very good storytelling. 


Warrior's coronation was well done with Hogan handing the title over and the fireworks going off at the end. It all made it feel special. 
*​*



Gaaaaaaawdamn........










Man, you can easily DUD 95% of this card because of how short the matches are and how they end. I don't understand how anyone can complain about today's product and Wrestlemanias considering how poorly booked and worked this event was. This is the mess that's served when you only care about one match and making as much money as possible. The workrate at this event is damn near at a negative. Some of it was admittedly fun like the Mixed Tag & DiBiase/Roberts but the amount of disqualifications on this show alone are unacceptable. They had the talent to make this show matter but instead it was an abortion. 


To say nice words about this event, Toronto seemed to really be having fun, which I guess is the goal at the end of the day but this event certainly doesn't stand the test of time in any measurable way outside of the Hogan-Warrior face-off.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Slamming Duggan earns a big no-no from me.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Raw Is War 05/21/2001 - WWF World Tag Team Championship: Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin & Triple H (w/ Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley)*

GOD DAMN! this match still holds up and is prob the greatest 15 minutes in RAW history. This match is mainly remembered for being the match where HHH tore his quad, but before the injury occurred, this was one of the best tag team matches I've ever seen. The action was hot all throughout and as the match progressed, the crowd got more into it with the realization that the Chris' might be able to pull it off. The ending of the match was one of the hottest endings I've ever seen in Raw history When Jericho goes for the Walls of Jericho On Austin but HHH goes in and hits Jericho from behind with a clotheslining (And tears his quad HHH goes to the outside and takes the monitors off the announcing table and attempts to pedigree Jericho, but Jericho counters it into the Walls of Jericho. In the ring, Benoit does the diving headbutt on Austin and covers but the referee was on the outside. Austin gets the stunner for the 2 count but Jericho drags out the referee. Lionsault on Austin. HHH grabs the sledge and was about to hit Jericho and hits Austin by accident and Jericho covers Austin and we got ourselves new Tag Team champions. ****3/4


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I remember Jericho talking about that match in his book saying it was one of the greatest RAW matches in history. I think he talked about the Benoit/Jericho Ladder match too saying it's such a shame that such great matches are basically erased from history now.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Smackdown 05/24/2001 - TLC III for the World Tag Team Championship: The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. Two-Man Canadian Violence (Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit)*

This is probably my favorite TLC match cause it's more then just big spot after big spot it told an AMAZING story of Benoit missing the headbutt through the table so he gets taken to the back with "Bruised or cracked ribs" so that would leave Jericho alone for most of the remaining match. but it seemed as if the numbers were going to be too much for him. Suddenly, Benoit came back out to the ring with his ribs taped up and showed some tremendous courage by fighting off members of the opposing teams, Oh and the spot with the CON-CHAIR-TO to the injured ribs after Benoit covered his head is still one of the top 10 greatest things EVER! This was a great match that lived up to the insanity of the previous TLC matches and what made it even better is that we got to see it for free. ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*NXT 1/3/13*

1) Epico vs Bo Dallas ~ 1/2*


2) Tamina Snuka vs Sasha Banks ~ DUD


3) International Airstrike _(Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel)_ vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger ~ **


4) *NXT Championship*
Seth Rollins(c) vs Corey Graves ~ 3/4*

----------​
*NXT 1/10/13​*
1) Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Yoshi Tatsu & Percy Watson ~ SQUASH


2) Paige vs Emma ~ DUD


3) Primo Colon & Epico vs Michael McGillicutty & Bo Dallas ~ *


4) *NXT Championship* - *No DQ Match*
Seth Rollins(c) vs Big E. Langston ~ *​

Neither contain any matches worth seeing. Still, each show gave me more entertainment than RAW or Smackdown usually do. NXT should deliver more as the year goes on. I'm confident in that. Rolling on with the 2013 stuff. Like I claimed I would. ~!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punter said:


> I remember Jericho talking about that match in his book saying it was one of the greatest RAW matches in history. I think he talked about the Benoit/Jericho Ladder match too saying it's such a shame that such great matches are basically erased from history now.


Yeah, read that book last week actually and he basically gave Trips credit for an awesome performance, saying that Trips was the first guy to work classic WWE style matches with him. DAT 2000 TRIPS < ALL.

That ladder match is something to behold though, holy shit. Might be my greatest ladder match ever now that I think about it. Rewatched Summerslam 95 and Mania HBK-Razor matches and I'd put WM X higher this time. DA ORIGINAL


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I completely missed 2000 Triple H. Damn me not watching wrestling at the time


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Benoit trumps TLC III for me. Either way, when you seem to have Jericho & Benoit involved in a ladder match - it's GREAT.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

You know what was a surprisingly really underwhelming match? Austin vs. Jericho vs. Benoit from KOTR 2001. Wasn't Benoit working through a injured neck then? What an animal.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The match is good, but you're completely right ; horribly underwhelming considering who was involved and what time period it was for all men (especially Austin). 

TLC III is the ultimate TLC match, shame it doesn't exist anymore :vince


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I watched a lot of wrestling today. Sorry for the long posts.

*Extreme Rules: CM Punk vs. Randy Orton - Last Man Standing* ***3/4
Great, brutal opener for the PPV. Good amount of time, cool finish.

*Extreme Rules: Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio - Ladder* ****
Very good ladder match. Great psychology from both guys. Gets elevated a bit for it just being Christian's first world title win. It has a special feeling to it. I tend to forget that Brodus Clay was around at this point and the amount of blood pouring out of his head after the ladder shot is pretty crazy.

Now the whole Christian/Orton feud:

*Smackdown May 6, 2011: Christian vs. Randy Orton* ***1/2
Great TV match. The final few minutes are fantastic. Very exciting, it was shocking to see this at the time. It still is really.

*Over the Limit: Christian vs. Randy Orton* ****1/2
They had a counter for everything. Excellent match. Back and forth the whole time. The counters and reversals tell a great story with each man becoming more and more desperate to just hit something, anything. Some great nearfalls too especially after the spear that was a counter to Orton's punt kick. I think this match had been a little overrated for me having heard so much about it without seeing it. While watching I didn't think too much of it and thought it could have gone a few extra minutes. Thinking about it now though, two or three minutes could have been good but it was excellent as it was. Excellent flow and chemistry between these two makes this a good contender for 2011 MOTY against the Cena/Punk matches.

*Capitol Punishment: Christian vs. Randy Orton* ****
Not as good as the previous month but still a great match to watch. Plenty of counters again but also the added dynamic of the Orton concussion coming into play, which Orton sells very well. Not as exciting as the OTL match, and the screwy finish with Christian's foot under the ropes brings it down a little, but still a great edition in this feud. And hey that finish gives us another match betwen these two so I can't complain there.

*Money in the Bank: Christian vs. Randy Orton* ***1/2
Doesn't get the chance to reach the heights of the other matches. Still some superb wrestling from these guys as expected. Awesome nearfall after the kill switch, and a couple of other great nearfalls too. They do very well with the 12 minutes they got and the DQ stipulation made things interesting and provided a unique finish. It was surprising and the post match beat down is good and the crowd loves it. And for some reason announce tables never seem to break for RKOs.

*Summerslam: Christian vs. Randy Orton - No Holds Barred* ****1/2
A return to form here. Classic battle to cap this feud off on PPV. Started off with the usual awesome counter wrestling, turned quickly into a brawl with some brutal spots (the announce table went down with only one RKO this time) including a great DDT onto a trash can. I liked how Christian loses the title with the same move as the first time he lost it, this time onto the steel steps though. It's not a technical work of art like their OTL match, but it doesn't need to be, it's just as outstanding.

*Smackdown August 30, 2011 - Christian vs. Randy Orton - Steel Cage *****
Excellent TV cage match, great way to close off the feud and lead into the next one. Good psychology from both men. A couple of great nearfalls and a sweet finish. 

What a great feud. Okay the storyline and some of the booking was questionable. Orton dominated too much. But the quality of the matches overshadows all of that. Same deal as people hating Punk's reign. Some of the storylines and his position on cards has been questionable, sure, but he has delivered high quality match after high quality match and that's what truly matters to me. These guys did the same. It's been a fun day.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Had that entire storyline been booked right, I think it would've been one of the greatest feuds in recent memory. They're matches all throughout 2011 were tremendous by themselves, but if they were given a good backbone and feud behind them, it would've been fucking awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punter said:


> You know what was a surprisingly really underwhelming match? Austin vs. Jericho vs. Benoit from KOTR 2001. Wasn't Benoit working through a injured neck then? What an animal.


****1/2. 

I LOVE it. It's pretty brutal. On moments when they shouldn't be, those guys wreck their bodies.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished watching Summerslam 2007, mainly the main event between Randy Orton and John Cena. My feelings have changed on this match quite a bit after a rewatch. This is fucking weird because the beginning of the match is actually not good at all, but they pick up the pace so fiercely that it's actually kinda hard not to give the two props. Still not close to their AWESOME NWO 2008 MATCH OMGZ but definitely their second best match in my book for sure and MOTN by fucking FAR. **** 1/2* from DIS GUY.

CAL SCALES are incoming for NWO, SS, and UNF 07 once I get this extremely fucking horrible looking PPV over with in like the 10 days it will probably take me to watch it :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Smackdown 1/11/13​*
1) Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro ~ *


2) Dolph Ziggler & AJ Lee vs Great Khali & Natalya Neidhart ~ DUD


3) *Handicap Match*
Sheamus vs 3MB _(Heath Slater, Drew McIntyre, & Jinder Mahal)_ ~ N/R


4) Team Hell No _(Kane & Daniel Bryan)_ vs Prime Time Players _(Darren Young & Titus O'Neil)_ ~ SQUASH


5) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Last Man Standing Match*
Big Show(c) vs Alberto Del Rio ~ **​
Another nothing show for 2013. Don't see the appeal of the main event. Championship win was random as hell and I'm not happy about it even with the fact that I'm a Del Rio fan. I didn't find the win or comeback believable in any fashion and it was an average match carried by Big Show at best. Rest on the show sucked except for Cesaro's pop up european uppercut on Orton. Bumped it up 1/2* just b/c of it. CESARO.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rollins/Big E had a big match feel to it. Place was going nuts and I enjoyed the hell out of it. Bray Wyatt and The Family though. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Crowd certainly ate it up and it had a fun feel behind it, but it was nothing too special overall. I liked the Asai DDT counter into Langston's finisher. Good ending. I'm too blah on Langston to be emotionally invested. He's pretty trashy.

LUKE HARPER. That was my highlight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched RR 2000 last night for my blog (will post 1999 thoughts later today, then 2000 2morrow). Tremendously fun event only let down by a poor triple threat and an average Rumble match, but the rest was good enough to make it the current BEST RR event. I do have a feeling that 2001 will beat it though . My new and improved CAL SCALE seems to be working well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TAG TEAM TABLES MATCH IMO.

triple threat is atrocious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YES. Tag Team Tables Match needs some fucking love. I adore the shit out of it. Best tables match EVER.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

****

showing it some LOVE via snowflakes. It's fucking legit.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The star-making Foley trilogy 

V HHH RR 2000 ****1/2
V Orton BL 2004 ****3/4 (LOVE THIS SHIT!)
v Edge WM 22 ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bump Foley/Trips up 1/4* and you got my thoughts. 

(Y)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH/Foley ************ 8*D 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c of the Foley carry job, right? :hmm:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

For whatever reason you want, still *********** *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I didn't even realise HHH was in the match until he won 8*D. Complete Foley show.

Half joking there. Match is a total Foley showcase, yet still manages to get HHH more over than he's ever been. Despite feuding with Rock for most of 98, then the likes of Austin and even Vince "get anyone over in a feud with me" McMahon, he still wasn't THAT guy until Foley came along and fucking MADE him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why Foley put him over. To accomplish that. Foley is the king. The absolute KING.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm not even going to try to deny any of that because it's true. This is the match that made Trips what he is. It's far from a total Foley show though but there's no talking to GAME HATERS . 

Btw, read this and weep. Freemantle charging £27.99 for 2 disc blu-ray sets. FUCK YOU. Rock winning at the Rumble is also a foregone conclusion going by the synopsis released for the DVD.

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/latest-uk-wwe-dvd-shop-wrestlemania-29/33419/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock winning is officially a lock? 

I'm going to crawl away into my room and never leave it now thanks to being emotionally unattached to cope with the Punk loss.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Don't know why you would need a DVD to tell you that lol. The payoff to all this was never for Punk to go over. It's for Rock to win the title after all this time and to most likely pay back :cena2 for his loss last year. I'll legit be shocked if A) Rock doesn't win at Rumble and B) He doesn't fight Cena at Mania for the title.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well freemantle fail before their site even opens. Cunts. Looks like I ain't buying anything unless I see it on sale somewhere.

I still have hope that Rock isn't winning. Someone screws him, sets up a WM match. I don't know who it could be (I do a good job of avoiding spoilers, ESPECIALLY when it comes to upcoming WM shit), but dammit I'm still hoping it happens. Rock as champ would mean he's have to actually BE AROUND for the most part. And I couldn't deal with a potential Rock promo every week. Urgh.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

HHH/Foley at RR is easily ********** minimum 

Such a great match which MADE HHH a star

Orton/Foley was great and really set Orton up for his World title win at Summerslam, just a shame he bombed after.

The Edge match was the perfect situation, a pissed off motivated Edge wanting to stick it to management and Foley wanting that great Mania match and moment


----------



## COPkilla (May 20, 2010)

How many of you people actually buy DVD's or do you just settle for downloads?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Good all this is for Cena to beat Rock for the belt at WM. I'm sure the NYC fans in attendance will be pleased with the result as Cena needs a push.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I doubt I'll buy anything full price from these FreeMantle people with prices like that. Sale or elsewhere unless it's something I _really _want. I usually buy Mania's full price. We'll see.

One thing Cena winning will be good for is to, I suppose, send the message that this generation doesn't completely suck ass compared to the past lol. And hopefully that heel turn that's never gonna happen .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

COPkilla said:


> How many of you people actually buy DVD's or do you just settle for downloads?


I buy DVD's/Blurays . Got a nice collection of over 100 wrestling ones. I like to own an original copy of certain things, and wrestling is one of them.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

COPkilla said:


> How many of you people actually buy DVD's or do you just settle for downloads?


Depends what it is, If it's something I really want with a guy I really like then I buy it but if I'm not sure about it I'll download it and then if it's amazing I may buy it once the price drops a bit.


Take the CM Punk set, I'm not his biggest fan in the world so didn't buy it and just downloaded it, it's a great set with some awesome matches and the dvd itself has made me more of a fan of the guy so I will probably pick it up at some point when the price drops


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I buy the stuff from wrestlers I like, Manias, certain comp sets and stuff that is cheap on sale and worth a few quid. Other than that I just download the docs.


----------



## COPkilla (May 20, 2010)

I buy all my stuff. I can't be assed waiting around for low quality downloads and the rest. You can't beat a DVD / Blu Ray for ease and quality, and it's nice to have a collections, the box art etc. Not to mention the extras.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Two superstars meeting for the 1st time since WM 28 eh....

Can't wait to see the John Cena redemption story. :cena

Then onto WM 30 where it all begins again . More :cena2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Spoiler: Royal Rumble 2013 DVD Synopsis















:rock4

:cena2

unk3


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

WM 29!

Upper management gets their win back !:cena3:jpl


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Nah. Taker/Brock imo. Don't see Trips fighting Brock again and I never have. Starting to think we might see Hunter involved with The Shield tbh, either them or Punk because there isn't really anybody else with the other 4 taken up.

Tell you what though, if all this leads to a Cena heel turn then I'll happily accept it as the main event. John Cena turning heel to win the WWE Title after a year+ without it in NEW YORK CITY would be the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life lol. The only thing to make it better would be Trips joining him and the two of them going corporate power trip on everybody. Awesome.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

If they are doing Rock/Cena - The Rematch, the end of WrestleMania 29 is going to be what I thought they would do at WrestleMania 28 and that is Cena winning with Rock shaking his hand and raising his arm in victory. How the live crowd reacts to that is another story but that is WWE's 'happy ending' after Cena overcomes "his worst year ever."


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

Both guys getting booed to close out Wrestlemania would be quite a moment.


----------



## AussieBoy97 (Jan 6, 2013)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I loved how Cena kicked out of like four finishers in a matter of like 60 seconds and Ziggler got pinned after one finisher.
> 
> Yup.
> 
> ...


They should get CM Punk to write them. That dude has the best mic skills in the history of wrestling imo. And most of his promo's are unscripted - obviously.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd be into a Cena redemption storyline if he acted like he gave a fuck about anything. Him laughing everything off makes me feel no sympathy for him though. Horrible storytelling and if that is the closing image of Mania 29 then NYC is going to shit all over Cena AND Rock for doing it lol. They should make it NODQ, have Cena go mad with weapons and lay a sick beatdown on Rock, embrace the hate he'll no doubt get from the fans, turn heel, win the title, lay Rock out after the match, flip off the fans and come out on Raw the next night wearing a suit, all serious and as the actual personification of what everybody hates him for. Then...

GONG

Cena troll smile. Mania 30, he's coming after the streak. Every wrestling fan in the world shits their pants. 

Wrestlemania 30 - Heel John Cena vs. The Undertaker

BOOM!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Don't know why you would need a DVD to tell you that lol. The payoff to all this was never for Punk to go over. It's for Rock to win the title after all this time and to most likely pay back :cena2 for his loss last year. I'll legit be shocked if A) Rock doesn't win at Rumble and B) He doesn't fight Cena at Mania for the title.


b/c I'm clinging to the only tiny margin Punk has & not hoping that this company ruins a 400+ reign just to give it to Dwayne only to have him lose to Cena to make everything come full circle towards a match that was billed to never happen again. Feels...dumb.

I'm not happy about any of it. Well, Cena getting his win back yes. But at the expense of Punk's championship reign, then no.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> b/c I'm clinging to the only tiny margin Punk has & not hoping that this company ruins a 400+ reign just to give it to Dwayne only to have him lose to Cena to make everything come full circle towards a match that was billed to never happen again. Feels...dumb.
> 
> I'm not happy about any of it. Well, Cena getting his win back yes. But at the expense of Punk's championship reign, then no.


You had to know it was coming though. Today and the past few years, WWE begins and ends with John Cena. I'm a mark for Cena and I know you are too but his booking is and has been hurting everybody around him lately more than helping. He's a big problem right now and the only way out of it is a heel turn but I fear it will never happen and so we're stuck with Cena overcoming the odds storyline #587978923749 because everything in that company begins and ends with John Cena's smiling face.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck pretty much nailed it in regards to Cena the character, there's a ton of directions they could go to make an interesting and gripping arc but anytime they do they immediately reset back to default Cena and ruin it. The idea of there being a payoff to Cena losing big matches and struggling to topple Punk as the ace of the company is intriguing, but Cena bar the 3 weeks of the Lesnar feud and a couple of promos involving Punk in the buildup to NOC hasn't sold the desperation, struggle and hopeless year he's had by his standards. He's been as juvenile and comical as he was in 2011 and 2010 and therefore any direction they go whilst nice on paper feels stunted and shallow because they nor Cena have taken the time to really sell his loss of form to the extent where the payoff feels like a great achievement on his part.

It just stems from their inability to want their babyfaces to appear in peril/danger as well as their dire current ability to write a likeable babyface. The heels generally come off more sympathetic and intriguing because of how lowly they're booked and presented in comparison to the babyfaces and the likes of Cena & Sheamus are so painfully condescending, prickish and woefully hypocritical that their characters come off as genuinly unlikeable and people like Ziggler who come off more genuine and heartfelt are supposed to be booed simply because they're speaking out against popular wrestlers.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought Freemantle said that their pricing would be “similar” to the previous licensee?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Haha. just what WWE needs. Rock/Cena II, "Once in a Lifetime." Except when it comes John Cena getting his win back. God forbid he doesn't. He's a joke, and so is WWE management. Can't wait for NY/NJ to take a shit on that awful match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OMFGZ TRIPS-CENA CORPORATE STABLE FTW :vince ..... In all seriousness though, if Cena turned heel it would mean that the top two guys in the company are heel. Throw in the obvious Orton turn that's coming soon and you got 3 of your big four moneymakers heel, leaving sheamus and RYBACK as the two biggest faces in the company. Unless they did a double turn with Punk to make that feud fresh again for 2013 In which you could have the fresh main event feuds of face Punk against heel Cena and heel Orton, and the like. Only problem with that is that Punk is the best heel we've seen in quite some time, so turning HIM would be dumber than anything else the company could do at this point


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

The only way Rock/Cena could have worked is if Cena had actually given a shit over the last year about the loss. He should have come out on the RAW post Mania a broken man, BOOM enter Lesnar and the exact same build up only Lesnar wins at Extreme. Throughout the year he should have been beaten almost every time he entered the ring (at this point Cena rarely needs to win). Big Show should have beat him, Punk should have beat him clean, Ziggler did and should have beat him, Ryback should have beat him. Every one should have beat him leaving him now a totally broken guy, no jokes no looking smug just depressed. His first real win in 9months would have been the rumble. Next night he comes out challenges Rock saying it all started at Mania and this year he is putting it right. Whole build up would centre around can Cena beat Rock? Vince could get involved saying Rock was always a bigger star

Come Mania have Vince sat at ringside, even put him on commentary. Rock looks to have Cena beat and McMahon gets up and slides a chair into the ring and BAM Cena hits Rock with the chair and beats him down with at least 15 chair shots, he then picks him up on his shoulders mouths "FU" and hits the AA and pins him 1,2,3 to become champ. Vince then gets into the ring and they shake hands (I know its a bit too similar to Austin/Vince but you could do the storyline right this time with Cena not ending up as a bitch and being badass and corporate).

That's the only way I'd enjoy Rock/Cena II but we will get the predictable Cena wins and then they shake hands


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Cena not selling the storyline is the main reason Rock/Cena 2 doesn't interest me at all.
Half of his stuff last year in their buildup was cringeworthy.
We got the John Cena we always got which in a matchup of that magnitude was ridiculous. 



Starbuck said:


> Nah. Taker/Brock imo. Don't see Trips fighting Brock again and I never have. Starting to think we might see Hunter involved with The Shield tbh, either them or Punk because there isn't really anybody else with the other 4 taken up.
> 
> Tell you what though, *if all this leads to a Cena heel turn then I'll happily accept it as the main event.John Cena turning heel to win* the WWE Title after a year+ without it in NEW YORK CITY would be the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life lol. The only thing to make it better would be *Trips joining him and the two of them going corporate power trip on everybody.* Awesome.


I had that idea too except it wouldve happened at last year's WM.
I don't see Cena beating Rock for the title being bigger than Rock beating Cena in their first and (at the time) only match ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Big Show (c) vs Alberto Del Rio, Last Man Standing, Smackdown (1/11/13)*

Man, I thought this was a legit great match and this is coming from someone terribly apathetic to recent WWE LMS matches. Unlike a lot of WWE LMS matches, this felt fresher and a more creative/unique approach went into the story and there wasn't an abundance of overly elaborate spots but instead a more thoughtful and smart layout building to the bigger and more impactful moments in the match wonderfully. Show was great as the monster heel. Controlled the pace suitably with a more sadistic and methodical toying of Del Rio and he emoted and sold all the big Del Rio hope spots in a really great manner that it made him look beatable without sacrificing his dominance and still making Del Rio feel like a genuine underdog. LOVED how he sold the arm work throughout especially after spots where he had to use every part of his body, such as the spear through the barricade. It came off as a hinderance which could be exploited and the fact Del Rio targeted it with the steel steps shots was such a smart payoff to the injury angle. 

Del Rio himself put in a really stellar performance and impressed me far more than he ever did working heel. Loved how he was made to be a more vicious yet resilient and intelligent wrestler using any opening he could to usurp Show's dominance as evidenced by the great transition into the armbar in the ropes after Show initially blocked the armbar. He bumped and sold well throughout, always appearing in discomfort and in agony even when he was on offence and the way he overcame the KO blow by rolling onto his feet on the floor was such a brilliant spot to show his toughness without compromising Show's finisher. Ricardo was great in between all the big spots, serving as a great manager showing concern for his friend and aiding Del Rio's growing sympathy appeal. Show also had some tremendous facial expressions as the match wore on and especially after Del Rio's escape from the KO punch. Finishing run was sublime with Del Rio selling the struggle in lifting and using the steel steps progressively more and more with each blow, the shoulder he used earlier to contain Show was the focus of the attacks and the build to Show collapsing and Del Rio scrambling to push the table on top of him was marvellous. Smartly structured, great build and pacing to the bigger spots, two great performances from both men and a genuinly enjoyable finish and post match celebration. Everything a LMS match should be.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I thought the LMS match was decent nothing more.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *Big Show (c) vs Alberto Del Rio, Last Man Standing, Smackdown (1/11/13)*
> 
> Man, I thought this was a legit great match and this is coming from someone terribly apathetic to recent WWE LMS matches. Unlike a lot of WWE LMS matches, this felt fresher and a more creative/unique approach went into the story and there wasn't an abundance of overly elaborate spots but instead a more thoughtful and smart layout building to the bigger and more impactful moments in the match wonderfully. Show was great as the monster heel. Controlled the pace suitably with a more sadistic and methodical toying of Del Rio and he emoted and sold all the big Del Rio hope spots in a really great manner that it made him look beatable without sacrificing his dominance and still making Del Rio feel like a genuine underdog. LOVED how he sold the arm work throughout especially after spots where he had to use every part of his body, such as the spear through the barricade. It came off as a hinderance which could be exploited and the fact Del Rio targeted it with the steel steps shots was such a smart payoff to the injury angle.
> 
> Del Rio himself put in a really stellar performance and impressed me far more than he ever did working heel. Loved how he was made to be a more vicious yet resilient and intelligent wrestler using any opening he could to usurp Show's dominance as evidenced by the great transition into the armbar in the ropes after Show initially blocked the armbar. He bumped and sold well throughout, always appearing in discomfort and in agony even when he was on offence and the way he overcame the KO blow by rolling onto his feet on the floor was such a brilliant spot to show his toughness without compromising Show's finisher. Ricardo was great in between all the big spots, serving as a great manager showing concern for his friend and aiding Del Rio's growing sympathy appeal. Show also had some tremendous facial expressions as the match wore on and especially after Del Rio's escape from the KO punch. Finishing run was sublime with Del Rio selling the struggle in lifting and using the steel steps progressively more and more with each blow, the shoulder he used earlier to contain Show was the focus of the attacks and the build to Show collapsing and Del Rio scrambling to push the table on top of him was marvellous. Smartly structured, great build and pacing to the bigger spots, two great performances from both men and a genuinly enjoyable finish and post match celebration. Everything a LMS match should be.


Had a feeling you would be a big fan of this. I'm going to watch it later. I fuckin watched a version of it that didn't have the middle section of the match. They worked through two commercial breaks right? The one I found on dailymotion only had one commercial break. Hopefully I haven't ruined the match for myself.

Did you see Sheamus/Ziggler from Main Event? Thoughts if so.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I dunno, I'd probably call it better than most of the recent ones. They've all felt largely the same with similar weapons, a reliance on big spots to sell the match and very little in between. Can't think of the last time someone put in a heel performance in a LMS as good as Show did here and Del Rio was a far more smarter and gradually sympathetic babyface who showed fire and heart and worked tremendously hard to find an opening. I didn't even mind Show just being content to hit a move and let Del Rio try and get back to his feet. They made it perfectly clear Show just wanted to get out with the title and his facial expressions perfectly conveyed a sense of cockiness and delight in hurting Del Rio, so it came off far better than a grudge feud match having a LMS match with not much going on in between the spots.

Maybe I just prefer a more relaxed and story driven match not relient on excessive spots compared to a lot of recent WWE LMS matches which feel like a collection of big bumps but not much in the way of selling, story or general structure.

@ *Saint Dick*. The one I saw on Dailymotion was 16 mins including short post match celebration. Only one commercial break, which came after Del Rio took the apron bump after the armbar and Show was coming around the ring to attack him as he got to his feet. Think they edited the match however because the spoiler report mentioned 2 KO punches and JBL post match referenced 2 punches, but the one I watched felt largely complete.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...1-01-13_shortfilms?search_algo=2#.UPQqsWfz6_s

Haven't seen Sheamus/Ziggler. I'll probably give it a watch since its attracted good praise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have Daily Motion links to both Ziggler/Sheamus and Show/Del Rio in full if anyone needs them. I made the vids private so they (hopefully) won't be taken down. As well as me wanting to watch, write about and rate EVERYTHING from WWE and TNA this year, I'm also planning to upload any matches worth seeing. While I didn't like the LMS I need to re-watch it when I haven't sat through 3 shows of shit like I did when I first watched it. I probably would have lowered my rating on HBK/Undertaker HIAC if I had watched it after all that trash .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I dunno, I'd probably call it better than most of the recent ones. They've all felt largely the same with similar weapons, a reliance on big spots to sell the match and very little in between. Can't think of the last time someone put in a heel performance in a LMS as good as Show did here and Del Rio was a far more smarter and gradually sympathetic babyface who showed fire and heart and worked tremendously hard to find an opening. I didn't even mind Show just being content to hit a move and let Del Rio try and get back to his feet. They made it perfectly clear Show just wanted to get out with the title and his facial expressions perfectly conveyed a sense of cockiness and delight in hurting Del Rio, so it came off far better than a grudge feud match having a LMS match with not much going on in between the spots.
> 
> Maybe I just prefer a more relaxed and story driven match not relient on excessive spots compared to a lot of recent WWE LMS matches which feel like a collection of big bumps but not much in the way of selling, story or general structure.
> 
> ...


Right. The one I watched was only 9 mins. I just checked and it does only have one commercial break but the one I watched came back from commercial break basically straight to Show's KO punch. Didn't have the barricade spot that you and others have mentioned.

Did you see Punk/Ryback TLC?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think its one of those matches that is undoubtedly smart, creative and very well built to, but I could understand the pacing and action which was more basic leaving others less enthralled. I thought it was better than something like Punk/Orton or hell even Christian/Orton on account of the selling, Show and Del Rio performances and the payoff to the early armwork having meaning, but those other matches had greater spots and more direct action whereas Del Rio/Show felt like a gradually building match which put all the emphasis on the story rather than the action.

In short, I think it has all tangibles of a great match, but it might lack that overall spark, investment or genuine action to make others truly care about the story.



Saint Dick said:


> Did you see Punk/Ryback TLC?


Yup, thought it was largely a Punk showcase but it was worked about as well as it could have been given Ryback's limitations and Punk coming off of surgery. I think it was Cal who mentioned it was a bit strange that Punk would regain control quickly after a couple of big bumps, the press slam into the ladder being the most obvious. That being said, Punk generally sold well especially after the table bump which was built to incredibly well instead of being terribly contrived. I dug him using the surroundings to try and keep up with Ryback, evidenced by his continual relience on a weapon nearby or using the steps to do the running knee on the outside. Ryback not grabbing the belt in the dark was pretty fucking stupid, but its pro wrestling and I've learnt to let some instances of stupidity slide when its done to progress the story. Fun match, very good Punk performance, Ryback largely doing all he needed to and looking dominant etc.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yup, thought it was largely a Punk showcase but it was worked about as well as it could have been given Ryback's limitations and Punk coming off of surgery. I think it was Cal who mentioned it was a bit strange that Punk would regain control quickly after a couple of big bumps, the press slam into the ladder being the most obvious. *That being said, Punk generally sold well especially after the table bump which was built to incredibly well instead of being terribly contrived. *I dug him using the surroundings to try and keep up with Ryback, evidenced by his continual relience on a weapon nearby or using the steps to do the running knee on the outside. Ryback not grabbing the belt in the dark was pretty fucking stupid, but its pro wrestling and I've learnt to let some instances of stupidity slide when its done to progress the story. Fun match, very good Punk performance, Ryback largely doing all he needed to and looking dominant etc.


That stuck out to me as well.

EDIT: About Punk regaining control quickly after the ladder spot, didn't he use that kick of his? I've always thought that was a bit of a desperation move for him which he uses in situations like that to quickly turn the tide of the match. Worked fine for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I noticed in that TLC match, while Ryback was the clear dominant force, Punk looked a lot stronger throughout than in their HIAC match, which was almost a glorified squash. Funny how they try to make Punk look fairly strong 3 weeks before his title match with Rock.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> That stuck out to me as well.
> 
> EDIT: About Punk regaining control quickly after the ladder spot, didn't he use that kick of his? I've always thought that was a bit of a desperation move for him which he uses in situations like that to quickly turn the tide of the match. Worked fine for me.


You might be right there actually. I just thought the bump itself looked pretty impressive especially with the damage it did on the ladder rendering it useless for climbing, then to see Punk almost instantly go back in control just felt a little sudden and unexpected. Still, it set up the table bump nicely with Punk not being content with one knee and trying to go the extra mile to injure Ryback which ended up nearly costing him the match. His selling climbing up the ladder was also really well done.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, twas me that mentioned Punk was a little iffy with some selling during certain parts. For the most part he was good, but he could have been better .

Speaking of could have been better, the 1999 RR. What a load of shite that was. Thoughts on my BLOG~! Shame that the hottest period of the company gave us some of the worst matches, TV shows and PPV events ever.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah, 1999 also produced the worst Survivor Series in living memory. Seems like they did the opposite of modern day WWE in producing great weekly television but putting out awful PPVs.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Yeah, twas me that mentioned Punk was a little iffy with some selling during certain parts. For the most part he was good, but he could have been better .
> 
> Speaking of could have been better, the 1999 RR. What a load of shite that was. Thoughts on my BLOG~! Shame that the hottest period of the company gave us some of the worst matches, TV shows and PPV events ever.


1999 was the worst year of the Attitude Era, by far. 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002 FTW, though. Sadly, I think I'd still take shitty 1999 over 2012. At least in 1999 more than 2-3 guys had an angle to be in. But I get what you're saying about '99. Scarily enough, as bad as WWF was in 1999, WCW was even worse. Waaay worse, haha.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sounds like I need to check out Show/Del Rio.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

You absolutely do. It comes with high praise from a lot. Though as I said, I think it comes down to whether you can look past the basic and simple action and appreciate the greater story and the build, pacing and eventual payoff to that story in terms of enjoying the match. It isn't your recent standard LMS built around a number of big spots, which for me only adds to its charm.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I've grown weary of recent LMS matches so this sounds like a refreshing change of pace. Excited to give it a watch. Is the link you posted on the last page of this thread the complete match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> 1999 was the worst year of the Attitude Era, by far. 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002 FTW, though. Sadly, I think I'd still take shitty 1999 over 2012. At least in 1999 more than 2-3 guys had an angle to be in. But I get what you're saying about '99. Scarily enough, as bad as WWF was in 1999, WCW was even worse. Waaay worse, haha.


2002 wasn't AE . Plus Raw sucked .

I'd put 98 in with 99 as being a terrible fucking year. Started off good, then after WM is went to shits. 99 started shit but got better in the last couple of months (almost like they got a new head writer...).

WCW 99 was definitely bad, but honestly I can sit through those shows a hell of a lot easier than WWF in 99, just because WCW is HILARIOUSLY bad. Flair in a mental home while still running WCW is incredible (Triple A as his assistant :lmao), Steiner goes full blown insane, and some other shit I can't remember off the top of my head.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Last week was a good week match-wise for WWE with Punk/Ryback, Sheamus/Ziggler and Show/Del Rio. I'm actually looking forward to watching Raw tonight which is unusual for me. Usually just skip all the crap and watch the matches you guys pimp. Road to Mania has raised my interest I guess.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Yeah, twas me that mentioned Punk was a little iffy with some selling during certain parts. For the most part he was good, but he could have been better .
> 
> Speaking of could have been better, the 1999 RR. What a load of shite that was. Thoughts on my BLOG~! Shame that the hottest period of the company gave us some of the worst matches, TV shows and PPV events ever.


The "I Quit" Match between Rock and Mankind might be my favorite I Quit match of all time, but yeah everything else on that show sucked.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah this is the second Raw in a row that I'm pumped for. Unfortunately, I only watched the beginning (Cena/Ziggler) and the end (TLC + Rock/Punk promo) of the show since the rest sounded like pure shit. Hopefully tonight has some storyline enhancement and solid matches to go with the nostalgia trip.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I've grown weary of recent LMS matches so this sounds like a refreshing change of pace. Excited to give it a watch. Is the link you posted on the last page of this thread the complete match?


As complete as I can find tbh. It appears they edited part of the match for TV, as the spoiler report mentions two KO punches and we only see one. It goes 14-15 mins and with only 1 commercial break, so can't imagine there's a more complete version lying about.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Speaking of could have been better, the 1999 RR. What a load of shite that was. Thoughts on my BLOG~! Shame that the hottest period of the company gave us some of the worst matches, TV shows and PPV events ever.


Nice write-up. I was just watching Beyond The Mat the other night and to get another perspective (i.e Foley's family & backstage footage) of the match, it was legitimately a brutal match. Mick's freaking skull was split wide open from one of those multiple (unprotected) chair shots! Foley took brutal bumps like only he would and both guys came out of it looking better. I love how Foley can create these matches with guys like Rock, Michaels, HHH, Orton and Edge that tells the story of the opponent being forced to up their physicality level to challenge Mankind/Cactus Jack who has such a high threshold for pain. Even Undertaker had never been tested like he was before he came across Mankind in 96.

I agree that the rest of the 1999 Rumble event was pretty woeful.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

LMS suits heel Show down to the ground. He's always best dominating at a methodical pace and that's a simple and effective formula for LMS once the babyface holds up his end of the bargain.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Meh, I always count 2002 as AE. Hell, I've read/heard alot of people claiming it goes to 2003. DAT TV 14 

1998 was fantastic, though. One of the best years in wrestling. Even WCW was still entertaining. It was clear that the tide was starting to turn and WWF was red hot and on fire, but WCW was still at least good. Combine WCW's last year of good programming with the WWF being on absolute fire and it was one of the better years in wrestling history. Again, certainly better than 2012. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I enjoyed 2012, just because of the awesome matches we got. Beats the fuck out of 1998 . 98 and 99 were only any good for the main event scene. Austin, Foley, Undertaker, Kane, Big Show, HHH, Rock (I guess) etc. Undercard was usually trash. LOS BURIQUAS (fuck looking up the spelling), BIKER GANG, THAT STRANGE MILITARY GANG, ODDITIES, JOB SQUAD. Urgh .

Also, since Clique brought it up, I fucking HATE that Beyond The Mat documentary. Didn't think it was good, and it made wrestling look like shit. Plus they fucked over Jake Roberts.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I really didn't think 2012 matches were all that great. Punk/Bryan OTL, Trips/Taker WM, Lesnar/Cena meh.

I'll take the combination of great weekly television, solid matches, logical storylines (and for more than just a handful of people) that makes sense (novel concept in senile Vince's mind these days), and just a better overall product. 2012 was shit on a stick being sold by a 70 year old man.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Late 90s undercard was legit fucking terrible. Seemed to get way better once they acquired the WCW talent (Jericho, Rey, Eddie, Benoit, etc.).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought there were tons of great TV and PPV matches in 2012, so I obviously liked it a lot more .

Good storylines + good wrestling would be great, but that rarely happens at the same time. 2000 is the best example (and the greatest year in WWF history ). I genuinely do not think there was a single bad Raw or SD in 2000. Same for 2001. If something sucked on the show, you can be guaranteed that there would be a bunch of other stuff that didn't. These days its the other way around. On a 3 hour Raw we are lucky to get 1 or 2 good matches, followed by 5 or 6 shit matches and a bunch of god awful segments and promos.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I thought there were tons of great TV and PPV matches in 2012, so I obviously liked it a lot more .
> 
> Good storylines + good wrestling would be great, but that rarely happens at the same time. 2000 is the best example (and the greatest year in WWF history ). I genuinely do not think there was a single bad Raw or SD in 2000. Same for 2001. If something sucked on the show, you can be guaranteed that there would be a bunch of other stuff that didn't. These days its the other way around. On a 3 hour Raw we are lucky to get 1 or 2 good matches, followed by 5 or 6 shit matches and a bunch of god awful segments and promos.


Very true, we are in agreement there. They were struggling to put on good shows before they went to 3 hours. Going 3 hours has made it an absolute chore to watch Raw. I used to look forward to Raw on Tuesday mornings. 2012 saw me change the channel alot, even before they went to 3 hours. Too many bad backstage segments and the like. 

I think WWE should do what Nitro did when they went 3 hours. Use the first hour mostly for the under/mid card to put on good wrestling matches and give those guys some quality television time. The same way Nitro used their first hour for the cruiserweight division. Then, for hours 2 and 3 the upper-midcard and main eventers do their thing. 

But we all know that isn't going to happen. God forbid someone like Tyson Kidd (or someone else low on the card who has talent) (pre-injury) get to put on a good 10 minute match in the first hour of Raw. Can't do that. Need more backstage segments!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> I thought there were tons of great TV and PPV matches in 2012, so I obviously liked it a lot more .
> 
> Good storylines + good wrestling would be great, but that rarely happens at the same time. 2000 is the best example (and the greatest year in WWF history ). I genuinely do not think there was a single bad Raw or SD in 2000. Same for 2001. If something sucked on the show, you can be guaranteed that there would be a bunch of other stuff that didn't. These days its the other way around. On a 3 hour Raw we are lucky to get 1 or 2 good matches, followed by 5 or 6 shit matches and a bunch of god awful segments and promos.


Just got through watching the Jan 10th, 2000 Raw show and all of this is 100% true.

- Show opens with Rock demanding the return of Foley or else the entire roster will walk on Trips and Stephanie
- They rehire Mick and the title match is set for MSG at the Rumble
- Rock sets up Billy Gunn vs. Road Dogg and Triple H vs. X-Pac along with a massive main event in Rock/Foley/Acolytes vs. DX
- DX is at war with each other throughout the course of the night in their matches and in the back
- Main event DX walk out on HHH and leave him with Foley
- Trips and Foley end up having an awesome brawl, PEDIGREE THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE!!!!
- Foley rips his mask off and comes back fighting even though HHH wins the match
- Show ends with Trips looking he's seen a ghost as Foley stands tall in the ring despite everything he just did to him, foreshadowing the awesome SD promo and return of Cactus Jack

I haven't even touched the midcard yet. All of this in 1 fucking show. The gap in quality from back then and now is just ridiculous tbh.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Just got through watching the Jan 10th, 2000 Raw show and all of this is 100% true.
> 
> - Show opens with Rock demanding the return of Foley or else the entire roster will walk on Trips and Stephanie
> - They rehire Mick and the title match is set for MSG at the Rumble
> ...


Yeah, that was a great show. 97 and 98 they were just getting the ball rolling and by the time 2000 rolled around, Raw couldn't be touched.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fuck that sounds good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I started reviewing 2000 Raw & SD. I should get back on that. Got up to May with SD and June with Raw (started doing Raw before I got SD, then started SD and tried to catch up lol). Even 3 minute matches that were only like 1/2* were so much fucking FUN.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rumble 2003 - Does the greatness of Benoit/Angle cancel out the shitness of HHH/Steiner?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2000 is everything a wrestling show should be imo. Characters, storylines, clear divisions so you can watch people progress up the ranks, tag teams, factions, stables, heroes you wanted to see overcome the odds, villains you hated and wanted to see get killed, comedy, drama, action, flash, substance and sheer quality from to to bottom. Everybody mattered and the titles meant so much. It had everything and that's why it was so successful and such great entertaining television. I don't think it will ever be touched and if it is then we'll be in for a treat that much is certain.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No surprise that THE GAME was the standout of the greatest year in pro wrestling history. :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*DAT GAME WIT DAT GAME FACE*


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Trips having a year like 2000 and then Austin immediately equaling it in 2001 was ridiculous. 

I doubt we'll ever see two years back-to-back like that again.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips 2000 > Austin 2001 based on personal preference alone. There isn't much separating them at all. Austin, while his heel turn is now considered to be a mistake by many, still made for quite the comedic heel. Those alliance skits with Vince and Angle get me all the time lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw the new Freemantle prices for the DVDs/BD, hmm i might go the Amazon route or even the region 1 route may work out cheaper, oh well we have been spoiled with SV I guess...


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Raw Is War 05/28/2001 - WWF World Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin (w/ Vince McMahon) vs. Chris Benoit*

Howard Finkle introduces the referee Earl Hebner and they booo him badly, The ref goes over some rules, and he checks the boots... old school! The two grapple into the corner, and Austin gets a few cheap kicks in. Benoit fights back with some chops. Austin regains control and drives his shoulder into Benoit’s ribs multiple times. Austin goes for a clothesline, and Benoit tries to reverse it into a Crossface, but Austin knees Benoit in the ribs. Now Austin whips Benoit into the ropes and lands a knee to the ribs. Stone Cold covers, but Benoit kicks out at two. Now Benoit is up and cracks Austin with some more violent chops . Now both men jockey for a pinfall, but Benoit rolls into a Crossface! Austin inches over to the ropes, and grabs a hold of them. Action spills to the outside now, and Benoit rams Austin into the announce table. Now Austin gains control and sends Benoit into the stairs. We head back into the ring, and Benoit trips up Austin and applies a Sharpshooter! He holds it for quite a while, but Stone Cold finally makes his way to the ropes. We’re back outside of the ring now, and Austin suplexes Benoit, and lays him out, ribs first, over the barricade. Now The Rattlesnake suplexes Benoit into the announce table, and it didn’t budge. Austin tosses Benoit back into the ring, and he covers, but only for a two count. Another cover, and another two count. Austin has an abdominal strech on Benoit, and is using the ropes as leverage. The ref breaks his leverage, and Benoit lands an arm drag. Now Benoit props Austin up on the top rope, but Austin is able to fight off Benoit with a flapjack type suplex. Now Austin lands a superplex on Benoit. Austin covers, but Benoit kicks out at two! Now Austin goes for the belt, but the ref grabs it. Vince and the ref argue outside the ring, and the ref places the belt inside of the ring. Austin lands a Stunner on Benoit, but the ref is still arguing. Now Benoit is back up, and lays out Austin with the belt. He covers, and the ref counts, but Austin kicks out at two!!! Now Benoit has the Crossface on Austin, but Vince pulls the ref out of the ring, and Earl pushes Vince to the floor! Austin again is able to reach the ropes. Now Austin applies the Crossface on Benoit, and Vince calls for the bell to be rung, and for Fink to announce Austin as the winner via submission!!! Howard Finkle says Austin won by submission. Chris Jericho comes out and beats on Austin. Walls of Jericho on Austin and Benoit puts the crossface on McMahon. ***1/2 Awesome match with INSANE Canadian heat. Austin worked on the taped up ribs a lot with some brutal shit, and Benoit brought his usual vicious energy and a bunch of great nearfalls in the 12 minute match.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I could go back-and-forth on that one. Hunter was the ultimate heel and Austin was so goddamn entertaining. All those matches and promos from both. :mark:

Austin, Vince and Angle crack me up every time. Especially Austin's jealousy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Jimmy crack corn and I don't careeeeeee, I got Olympic Gold! I got Olympic Gold!

:lmao

Austin when he makes everybody eat Debra's cookies. Then Stephanie singing Wind Beneath My Ring is hilarious lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Championship - TLC Match
*CM Punk (c) vs. Ryback
_Raw 1/7/13_

Before I get into the match, let me first say it really annoys me when a champion comes out first on a title match. It just doesn't make sense to me. I understand Ryback's the face and all that jazz, but I had to laugh when he came out to really no reaction. I liked how Cole made the match seem really important though, running down who or what has plagued Ryback every time. 

Now onto the match. Thought it was good, but really puzzled me at times. Ryback's offense is so limited it's not even funny. I thought something was actually gonna happen when he swung Punk's body across the apron, but instead he just clobbers him with forearms. His "comeback" offense was pretty average as well. I kept asking myself, why the fuck isn't he going after the knee? Like he wasn't even thinking whatsoever and Punk "tweaked" it for no reason. The spot where Ryback charges and runs through the table was really smart on Punk's part but seriously made me LOL big time. Fuckin goof... 

You really have to feel bad for Punk coming out of this because he took some really dangerous looking bumps. The flat out gorilla press drop on the ladder was ridiculous, and while the toss through the table outside was really unexpected and well done, Ryback's drop was again, pretty careless. I saw people talking about Punk's selling, were you guys talking about selling the knee? Cause I really didn't see any point in that considering Ryback never even touched it.

All in all, it's a pretty good watch with some nice drama at the end from Ryback's tease and the Shield interference, but Skip's overall shittyness bogs it down from being great and it still baffles me as to why he never went after the knee. 

**** 1/4*


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

When Austin sang 'Kumbaya' I was almost off my seat. :lmao


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*Triple H vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 17*

This is kind of random and out of the blue, but I just watched Triple H/Taker WM 17. I haven't watched this match in a very long time and forgot how completely awesome it is. Brawls done the wrong way (ie most of the ones you see in current day WWE) bore me rather quickly. But this brawl was fucking epic, from a brawl-style type of match. They never once rested and kept going from start to finish. I also usually don't like when brawls go into the crowd. It usually is just punch for punch and a whole lot of idiots getting in the way. But this was different. Them going onto the camera deck and the chokeslam off the top of it was awesome, as was the follow up elbow drop. I'm completely blown away by it. If I have to watch a brawl-type match, this is the one I would want to see. Just non-stop action from bell to bell and a true sense that these two guys hated eachother. Just an awesome showdown on an awesome PPV. ****1/4


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

HHH/Taker at WM 17 is pretty good. I dig that match almost just as much as their WM 27 match. It probably would have been better to me if it didn't have the most longest and dumbest sell to a referee bump in history.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, it was pretty funny/weird that the ref was out that entire time they were out in the crowd. But in relation to the match and the work they did in that one, it didn't hurt the actual match to me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It should've just been a No DQ. Lol @ an elbow to the back killing the ref for over 5 minutes. A good match and on-par with WM27 but below WM28. Also Taker assaulting referees is always some of the best comedy I've seen. Always comes off so hilarious when he mercilessly holds their throat for a chokeslam or gives an extra elbow to their head just for good measure once they're out.

And all this talk of 99/2000/01. :mark: Can't wait till I've got 06/07 out of the way so I can go back and watch the whole AE. Been slowing down recently, though.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Smackdown 05/31/2001 - WWF World Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin (w/ Vince McMahon) vs. Chris Benoit*

This was a match for Stone Cold's WWE Championship and it was fought in Benoit's hometown of Edmonton so the crowd extra pumped and the HEAT Austin got was serious. I can without a doubt call this a "fucking classic". The psychology in this was off the charts and Benoit's intensity and determination are amazing, but this is largely this was Austin's best showing as a heel as he played some kind of psychotic sociopath who will do what ever it takes to keep that WWE Championship, plus some of his facial expressions here just put over how bionic and insane he was during this heel turn. I should also mention the rib work but Austin is some of the best work done by Austin ever and the announce table spots, WOW! And this also has the epic 10 German Suplexes spot. ****3/4


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Christian Louboutin said:


> *WWF Smackdown 05/31/2001 - WWF World Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin (w/ Vince McMahon) vs. Chris Benoit*
> 
> This was a match for Stone Cold's WWE Championship and it was fought in Benoit's hometown of Edmonton so the crowd extra pumped and the HEAT Austin got was serious. I can without a doubt call this a "fucking classic". The psychology in this was off the charts and Benoit's intensity and determination are amazing, but this is largely this was Austin's best showing as a heel as he played some kind of psychotic sociopath who will do what ever it takes to keep that WWE Championship, plus some of his facial expressions here just put over how bionic and insane he was during this heel turn. I should also mention the rib work but Austin is some of the best work done by Austin ever and the announce table spots, WOW! And this also has the epic 10 German Suplexes spot. ****3/4


This match is one of my favorite free TV matches of all time right along with the British Bulldog vs Owen Hart for the European title on Raw in Germany and Bret Hart vs Chris Benoit for the WCW title in an Owen Hart tribute match on Nitro. This is such an underrated match that had great brawling and technical wrestling in it. Both Austin and Benoit could have worked more great matches with each other but it's such a shame they didn't have that many ring encounters with one another. I'd consider that match a classic.

Great review. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm of the opinion Austin's performance at Summerslam against Angle may be his greatest during 2001, but the Benoit Edmonton match alongside his performance against Rock at Wrestlemania really aren't far behind. Pretty much a perfect TV match with a ridiculous crowd, a great pacing and a character dynamic the fans were invested in. Summerslam though as I said may be his peak. He just comes off as such a demented, obsessed and paranoid psycho determined to overcome Angle's threat and he manages to revert from cowardly weasel into demented blood thirsty maniac so effortlessly. Reminds me of Eddie against Rey from Smackdown 6/23/05 and how Eddie somehow manages to alternate between an obsessed yet determined individual looking to best Rey at his own game and prove his talent beyond question...and then when things begin to look bleak he has this expression that says he'll rip Rey's bollocks off and forcefeed them to him whilst beating him to a pulp because he can.


----------



## JeriTroll5000 (Jan 14, 2013)

Totally Agree


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/Austin is probably the greatest TV match in WWE history. Just too damn good. Impressive that in 4 TV events in a row, Benoit took part in FOUR great matches. 4 out of 4 for the Wolverine!

And one of the suplexes Benoit took on the announce table was just brutal. Looked like he landed rib first on the edge of the table and almost landed on his head on the floor. Yet he still had the guts and will to do the 10 German spot.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm of the opinion Austin's performance at Summerslam against Angle may be his greatest during 2001, but the Benoit Edmonton match alongside his performance against Rock at Wrestlemania really aren't far behind. Pretty much a perfect TV match with a ridiculous crowd, a great pacing and a character dynamic the fans were invested in. Summerslam though as I said may be his peak. He just comes off as such a demented, obsessed and paranoid psycho determined to overcome Angle's threat and he manages to revert from cowardly weasel into demented blood thirsty maniac so effortlessly. *Reminds me of Eddie against Rey from Smackdown 6/23/05 and how Eddie somehow manages to alternate between an obsessed yet determined individual looking to best Rey at his own game and prove his talent beyond question*...and then when things begin to look bleak he has this expression that says he'll rip Rey's bollocks off and forcefeed them to him whilst beating him to a pulp because he can.


I don't understand this at all. To me, it was just a great mat wrestling clinic. There really was no "Eddie is obsessed and going psycho" feeling to the match at all. They just wrestled their ass off and nothing more than that. In regards of storytelling, I take their Judgment Day match as a better example with Eddie badly wanting to beat Rey. One of my favorite parts of that match is when he tosses Rey in the ring then out again to break the count like a little child. Got a chuckle out of that one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

It was a deliberate light hearted exaggeration on my part to joke about how convincing Eddie was in that feud as a pyscho nutjob, but I've always thought of it more as a character documentation on Eddie's part to go alongside the wrestling. He starts out trying to get in Rey's head, offering the hand and trying to outwrestle him. Then his plan falls apart and he grows more violent and unhinged and turns more physical and settles on destroying Rey and trying to win the match that way, only to slowly grow incensed as Mysterio won't be beaten and eventually succumbing to another soul-crushing defeat.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh, I understand what you're trying to say. I just meant that I don't see it at all. To me, it felt like a basic wrestling classic between the two without much character work on par with the "Eddie wants to beat Rey" story. I just didn't find Eddie to be _that_ violent. The most I got out of it was that evil grin on Eddie's face after the loss in the end. Still a great match, I just don't look it the same way as you do.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Jimmy crack corn and I don't careeeeeee, I got Olympic Gold! I got Olympic Gold!
> 
> :lmao
> 
> Austin when he makes everybody eat Debra's cookies. Then Stephanie singing Wind Beneath My Ring is hilarious lol.


Debra's fucking cookies. :lmao

I remember one show she gave them to him on the tray and right when she turned around he spilled them everywhere and was acting so disappointed. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin's face when having to eat her cookies on some random RAW or Smackdown was priceless. Oh, and Austin vs Angle gets top billing for me as Austin's best work from 2001. I'm sure the Benoit match follows it only by a hair. Both of which RAPE the match vs Rock at WrestleMania 17 & vs Trips at NWO. _(which by some seem to get more praise when I personally feel it should be the opposite)_

About to slam through both Superstars from 2013 atm. Cards are:

*1/3*

Prime Time Players vs Usos
Brodus Clay vs Primo Colon

*1/10*

Mike Mizanin vs TENSAI
Prime Time Players vs Zack Ryder/Brodus Clay

Not expecting too much. Tensai's match could be fun. Horribly optimistic b/c it's a first time ever meeting so it sparked interest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All those matches suck. Tensai/Miz is ok though. Nowt special, but more watchable (and more worth your time) that the rest of the shit .

Watching RR 02. Flair/Vince shocked the crap out of me. Used to hate it!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thankfully the match I care to see is the only decent of the bunch. (Y)

Ugh, I HATE Flair vs Vince. Has to be the only Vince match I don't mark out for. You'd think a brawl vs RIC FLAIR would work too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When was the last time you saw it? Because I absolutely HATED it live and then again a few years ago when I bought the Anthology set. Changed my mind on quite a few matches over the RR's so far lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly, only a few months ago so it's fresh. I was waiting for it to end about 5 minutes in. :shaq


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bah, you suck!

Rock/Jericho isn't holding up nearly as well as I would have liked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. :hayley3

I liked Jericho/Rock. Although it was their easy pick for weakest match, imo. From No Mercy - onward their matches kept decreasing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Used to be my favourite of their series. Still think Vengeance is their worst tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vengeance surprisingly held up for me. Not a fan of the interference, but I guess No Mercy technically had some too & Rumble's finish is ULTRA dirty so it comes with the territory. 

No Mercy is where it is at for me. Reaction when Jericho wins + JR freaking out. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NM is definitely their best match. I recall a really good match on Raw in 2000 too.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry to go back to a topic from a few pages back but I think these last couple of year's worth of WWE PPV matches have been overlooked due to the somewhat low quality of Raw (I still enjoy Raw but it can be bad sometimes). I will say that watching Raw from 1998, there have been a good number of shows that have been much better than most of the stuff from 2011 and 2012. However when it comes to PPVs. Nothing I've seen from 96, 97 or 98 (up until Unforgiven) really touches what we have seen in 2011 and 2012. WM 14 is one of the very few good shows I've seen from those few years. 

The show quality isn't my main point though. I'm talking match quality. I think I've only seen about 4 or 5 good matches from that time on PPV, whereas we have had tons in the last two years. Almost every PPV in 2011 and 2012 had a match worthy of ***1/2 or more.

Just felt like saying that because a lot of people here say that the last two years have been really bad. I can understand when talking about Raw because it hasn't been great. But when it comes to PPV matches, WWE have had a great couple of years.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah match quality overall had improved a SHIT TON over the years from the likes of the mid-90's. Back then the main events were usually the only matches worth watching, with terrible undercards. While WCW at the same time usually had good undercards and god awful main events lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah, that's the common theme.

Attitude Era aka 1998 & 1999 = great entertainment & quality TV.
Modern Era aka 2011 - 2012 = hit or miss entertainment, with blah TV and pretty darn good PPVs.

The switch off with their positives and negatives. Granted even some bad Attitude Era PPVs can be fun only b/c of the nostalgia factor + general entertainment from the characters that were about.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I honestly don't even find the TV shows in 98 and 99 that entertaining or good. Some stuff is. Russo gets a lot of credit for giving EVERYONE a storyline and whatnot, but fuck, most of them were terrible. So the midcard were always doing something, but it was usually wank .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Oh, I understand what you're trying to say. I just meant that I don't see it at all. To me, it felt like a basic wrestling classic between the two without much character work on par with the "Eddie wants to beat Rey" story. I just didn't find Eddie to be _that_ violent. The most I got out of it was that evil grin on Eddie's face after the loss in the end. Still a great match, I just don't look it the same way as you do.


That's surprising. Basic wrestling, really? Eddie pretty much spend everything past the big cheapshot dominating Rey like a scummy sack of ass. The first bits were pretty wrestling-ey, but that was all Eddie breaking clean to everyone's surprise, with Rey working over the giant bruise. All that until Guerrero eventually snaps, shoves Rey off the top rope to the outside and throws him into everything on the outside. Most of the rest of the match is Eddie on top of Rey + Rey's comeback. Rey's comeback was less Mysterio-sih than usual too, with multiple grounded punches of FURY and even a boot to the face.

I don't think the match is necessarily as violent as Judgment Day, but it definitely doesn't have more 'wrestling' (for lack of a better term) to it. It's absolutely FILLED with 'character'. Like, is as filled with that as almost any match I can remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Midcard stars like Kama Mustafa & DROZ.

oh, and THE ODDITIES.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*World Heavyweight Championship - Last Man Standing
*Big Show (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio
_Smackdown 1/11/13_

Kinda had high(ish) expectations after reading all the positive reviews on this, but ended up a little disappointed. Let me start by saying I love how they didn't bullshit around inside the ring for the first few minutes like you tend to see in every other LMS match. Totally dug how Show just went straight for a table and slammed him through with no problem. Del Rio's offense was pretty limited against the big guy but his psychology on the arm was good. Thought the armbar spot on the apron was creative, even though the crowd didn't seem to care. Del Rio's "standing up" after the KO punch was probably the best part of the match for me, thought that was really clever. I don't have a problem with the finish, though that was clever too but I don't feel like Del Rio really got all that much significant offense in, plus the match felt a little short. Crowd didn't help it much either, only popping for the finish. Good SD main event to nothing to write home about imo.

*****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

**

I wasn't much of a fan.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Super Cena is trending on Twitter right now, apparently, haha.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Cena/Dolph in a steel cage was p. good outside of Dolph looking like the biggest GEEK in the history of mankind.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Surprised Ziggler lost two weeks in a row. But I guess I shouldn't be.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just gonna say it in here because I don't give a fuck what the rest of the goons outside of this thread have to say..

Rock was fucking PATHETIC tonight. Easily one of the worst segments I've ever seen by a main event star EVER. Call me a Punk mark yet again, but the segment only got awesome when he came out, didn't say a word, and attacked. None of that Cena no sell smiling bullshit.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The first song was awful but the Vickie song was just fine. It was hardly as bad as you make it out to be. It wasn't on the level of his 2003 concerts but it was fine for what it was.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TOM BRADY.

You sir, are my god.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Just gonna say it in here because I don't give a fuck what the rest of the goons outside of this thread have to say..
> 
> Rock was fucking PATHETIC tonight. Easily one of the worst segments I've ever seen by a main event star EVER. Call me a Punk mark yet again, but the segment only got awesome when he came out, didn't say a word, and attacked. None of that Cena no sell smiling bullshit.


You're not wrong. The concert was some brutal stuff, and served no purpose whatsoever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Main Event 1/2/13*

1) *WWE United States Championship*
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Great Khali ~ DUD


2) *Gauntlet Match*
Wade Barrett vs Kofi Kingston vs Justin Gabriel vs JTG vs Yoshi Tatsu ~ 1/2*


-----------

*WWE Superstars 1/3/13*

1) Prime Time Players _(Darren Young & Titus O'Neil)_ vs Jimmy Uso & Jey Uso ~ 3/4*


2) Brodus Clay vs Primo Colon ~ DUD


----------

*WWE Main Event 1/9/13*

1) Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler ~ ***1/2


2) Wade Barrett vs Zack Ryder ~ 3/4*


----------

*WWE Superstars 1/10/13*

1) Mike Mizanin vs Tensai ~ **


2) Prime Time Players _(Darren Young & Titus O'Neil)_ vs Zack Ryder & Brodus Clay ~ *​

This joyous year rolls on. Sheamus vs Dolph was sweet. Tensai & Miz had a decent & (for me) fun bout. Rest was...yeah. Up next *1/14 Monday Night RAW*.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CAL SCALE TIME.

*No Way Out 2007*

Chris Benoit/Jeff Hardy/Matt Hardy vs MVP/Joe Mercury/Johnny Nitro : **** ¼* (1)

Scotty 2 Hotty vs Davari vs Gregory Helms vs Funaki vs Shannon Moore vs Jimmy Wang Yang vs Jamie Noble vs Chavo Guerrero : *** ½* (.5)

Finlay/Hornswoggle vs Boogeyman/Little Boogeyman : *DUD* (-1)

King Booker vs Kane : *** ½* (.5)

Paul London/Brian Kendrick vs Deuce N’ Domino : ** ¾* (0)

Bobby Lashley vs Ken Kennedy : *** ¼* (0)

Undertaker/Batista vs Shawn Michaels/John Cena : ****** (3.5)

*Overall Score : 4.5 *

This show was saved by the main event. Sure, the opener was awesome and all, but you can't centerpiece a PPV around a **** 1/4* match, that's just absurd. The main event tag is legit one of the best PPV tags the company has ever done, probably a top 15 Tag match in company history now that I think about it. It had extraneous amounts of SHAWN-TAKER... What else do you need in a main event ? CENA IN 2007.

The Cruiserweight open is probably the best gaunlet ever since I hate practically all of them. Booker-Kane exceeded all of my expectations due to on paper looking like it would be an absolutely horrendous piece of garbage. ECW match was decent but really a NOTHING match when it boils down to it, same with the DND tag. Deuce and Domino fucking SUCKED alright ?

Boogeyman/Little Boogeyman vs Finlay/Hornswoggle. That's all I need to say. Complete one match show but the opener is definitely worth watching as well.

*Summerslam 2007*

Kane vs Finlay : ***** (1)

Ken Kennedy vs Carlito vs Umaga : ** 1/2* (-.5)

Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero : *** 1/2* (.5)

Divas Battle Royal : *DUD* (-1)

CM Punk vs John Morrison : *** ¾* (.5)

Triple H vs King Booker : *** ½* (.5)

Batista vs The Great Khali : *½ ** (-1)

John Cena vs Randy Orton : **** 1/2* (2)

*Overall Score : 2 *

Oh this show was BAD. It was like No Way Out in the sense that the only matches worth watching are the opener and the main event, but there a few pretty big differences ; first of all the opener at NWO was a tad bit better. Secondly, the main event at NWO is a must see, go out of your way to witness match, the main event match here is awesome but just not a must see. Lastly... THIS IS SUMMERSLAM, A show that's supposed to be the number one show of the year and we get the following : One of the worst WHC matches in company history, a horrible drawn out battle royal even by DIVA standards, and a HORRIBLE triple threat match in which I feel bad for Umaga.

The opener was awesome and I don't want anybody disputing it. Finlay working those ribs were a thing of beauty with all of his FINLAY moves and such, if Kane sold a little better this would probably be bumped up quite a tad. Not to say that Kane didn't sell good, because he did for a considerable margin of the match, but the finish left more to be desired. The two returns and the Punk match were nice little matches, but nowhere near the likes of what Trips, Mysterio, and Punk are capable of all on one of the biggest stages of the year. Trips's return was so over the top that I actually had to LOL at it honestly, with the whole six million dollar man thing :lol

Cena-Orton was pretty great on a rewatch due to their ability to pull their match out of the drone like feel at the beginning and drag it upwards. The first quarter of this match is absolute shit and I don't know how anybody can dispute that (hinders me from giving this higher for sure), but for a majority of the match this kicked ass with the ton of near falls, counters, and excitement with a hot crowd to boot. OMFGCENAIN2007. This PPV sucks and it's the worst Summerslam of the WWE era by FAR, one of the worst if not THE worst Summerslam ever actually 

Watching UNFORGIVEN 2007 now. What a fucking pile of shit for a PPV, happened on my Birthday and elected to watch the Patriots thrash the Chargers on Sunday Night Football instead of ordering it. Best saving of 40 dollars I've ever had in my fucking life


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Needs about 4 more DUDs to come to my thoughts on both shows. _(Team ROH vs Deuce/Domino, Lashley vs Kennedy, Triple H vs Booker, & Batista vs Khali.)_ Punk vs Morrison was awful too.


*WWE Monday Night RAW 1/14/13​*
1) Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett ~ DUD


2) Kane vs Damien Sandow ~ DUD


3) *WWE Divas Championship* - *No DQ Match*
Eve Torres(c) vs Kaitlyn ~ DUD


4) CM Punk vs Brodus Clay ~ 1/2*


5) *Over The Top Rope Match*
Sheamus vs Heath Slater vs Drew McIntyre vs Jinder Mahal ~ DUD


6) Daniel Bryan vs Cody Rhodes ~ N/R


7) *Steel Cage Match*
John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler ~ 1/4*​

Another Dolph Ziggler jokefest. Pfft. Ratings speak for themselves on the matches. Although some results were very pleasing. Actually, all were except for the main event to me. At least I was entertained for the majority of it. Unlike last week. Where that last hour was great, but rest SUCKED.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

People hating on Rock Concert? Y'all got no soul.

:rock4

Worst segment from a main event start ever? Come on lol. It wasn't bad at all. Besides, how could it be bad when DA GAWD came out at the end to save it from the doldrums of hell?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Twinkle Tits was pretty awful. Rest was decent enough b/c I knew what to expect. The BRAWL at the end was (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I echo the thoughts of GOON. First song of Heyman, I didn't find really find funny except for the split-second after Heyman was put on the screen. Other than that, it was mediocre.

Song of Vickie though, THAT was awesome. It's awesome how Rock did that. He slowly played her up with the song, actually it was like a kid building up a tower of wooden blocks... and then BOOM! He knocks it all down in hilarious fashion and steps on the blocks for good measures. 

...Ok, maybe that wasn't the best way to put it, but you get the idea.  So I'm literally split on my thoughts of The Rock Concert, though just due to the Vickie part, I'd put it above the one he did last year no questions, as nothing he did from last year comes close to that imo.

Punk/Rock brawl at the end was good, though I just went into detail what I felt was wrong with it in the Punk/Rock thread in the Raw section, and don't feel like re-posting it right now (about to go to bed).

Edit: Oh, and yes, Twinkie Tits is awful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It worked for me only b/c I wanted those two to turn up the HATE. The little bit given was enough to keep me pumped for the match.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Didn't watch but I actually went through that Raw thread (started at midnight, finished at 3am and yes I was bored enough to do it) and that didn't come off as an anniversary show. I want to thank the wonderful posters of WF for their angry posts and the Trish pics (seriously confused when I read that title). I'm all for the return of Super Cena if it results in more violently pissed off posts. I was in tears. Don't know why people set themselves up for disappointment over no legends. Don't read dirtsheets and just go into the show with a clear head. Glad I didn't watch though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair was GOLD. Plus, Foley showing up made it a fine watch for myself. I'm always going to watch so glad there was something worth making me mark for.

Nostalgia wins tonight.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I read that there was a Finlay sighting! :mark: 
Personally the show didn't really sound interesting but I'll probably catch a repeat on one of the spanish channels.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YEP. I marked out for it too by shouting "I SAW FINLAY. FINLAY PULLED THE ROCK OFF."

So, I had my kicks with the show.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I really need to start watching WWE like I used to especially with the road to Wrestlemania and the HOF around the corner. Even if the whole night is a bust, there's bound to be some good matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

a la last week with Punk vs Ryback TLC. This week there were no quality matches, but the segments were fun. As long as one or the other, or both, can deliver then it works. If there was a time to start watching, this is it considering WrestleMania is right on the horizon. 

plus UNDERTAKER appearances should occur. :mark:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Was that Finley breaking up the brawl between Punk/Rock?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Jamie Noble on Raw > Finlay on Raw


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Platt said:


> Jamie Noble on Raw > Finlay on Raw



Noble was only relevant with Nidia. At least Finlay touched the main event. 

Finlay > Nobod-Noble


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Platt said:


> Jamie Noble on Raw > Finlay on Raw


I missed him. Only saw ARN, IRS, & GOAT Finlay.



SpookshowTony said:


> Noble was only relevant with Nidia. At least Finlay touched the main event.
> 
> Finlay > Nobod-Noble


hey now, Noble is the man too.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Eh, never cared for him. I do acknowledge that people see him as underrated though.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

How long has been Finlay been working for the WWE again?

Thought he's just been working the indies since he got fired for the Miz/National Guard segment at a house show


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^Would like to know the details on Finlay. I guess we'll have to wait.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Eh, never cared for him. I do acknowledge that people see him as underrated though.


Indeed. Plus his career year in ROH + other indies during 2005. Gave fans a whole new appreciation for his work.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Didn't know Noble was ROH. Will not check out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

but it's AWESOME. 

I'm partial to dem indie promotions though. Especially ROH during that time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> a la last week with Punk vs Ryback TLC. This week there were no quality matches, but the segments were fun. As long as one or the other, or both, can deliver then it works. If there was a time to start watching, this is it considering WrestleMania is right on the horizon.
> 
> plus UNDERTAKER appearances should occur. :mark:


Taker, Lesnar returns and the Rock/Punk stuff are the only reasons im still watching atm tbh...


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Gibson was greatness personified in ROH. Always a fan of Noble but he stole the show with that run.

I marked seeing Finlay. Didn't think he was back on the job yet. There's hope for the future yet!


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> but it's AWESOME.
> 
> I'm partial to dem indie promotions though. Especially ROH during that time.



Meh, I'll pass.

Haven't seen any indy stuff. I'll try to check some out after the many, many matches I still have to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Taker, Lesnar returns and the Rock/Punk stuff are the only reasons im still watching atm tbh...


Sounds good enough. It's why they usually do or should come back for Mania each year.

@spookshowTony - Fair enough. Only throwing it out there b/c it's quite choice. Makes sense if you got enough on your plate as it is. How I don't get overwhelmed myself with all that I keep up with is something I can't even believe.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

(Hayley)
My plate is full with job hunting, insomnia and an irregular sleeping pattern due to insomnia. Can hardly find time for wrestling videos.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> (Hayley)
> My plate is full with job hunting, insomnia and an irregular sleeping pattern due to insomnia. Can hardly find time for wrestling videos.


Sounds like the same afflictions/dilemmas I'm currently under too. I feel your pain. (I think it's why I succumb to some much wrestling. Got nothing else to do and all that jazz. 8*D)


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Hailsabin said:


> 7) *Steel Cage Match*
> John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler ~ 1/4*[/CENTER]


What on earth is this?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Only thing i liked from the concert was the Vickie song and the penis joke, that actually surprised me. I was kinda disappointed when Punk came out because right when It started to get entertaining the concert was done. Liked the brawl more so because they actually got physical, something i wanted from Cena & Rock last year. Liked that and the Team Hell No & Flair segments skipped everything else (turned to RAW to see Cena won i laughed). Watched Hart/ Sid from IYH: Its Time, ok match but Michaels commentary stole the show. Watching the match made me realize that i don't watch much WWF new gen/pre attitude era stuff.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

FremantleMedia drops UK WWE DVD prices: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/fremantlemedia-drop-wwe-dvd-prices-tlc-2012/33478/


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Seems pretty similar to SV. But i only bought from them when there was a sale, so not much will change for myself.

i want WILD WEDNESDAYS back.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> FremantleMedia drops UK WWE DVD prices: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/fremantlemedia-drop-wwe-dvd-prices-tlc-2012/33478/


Well at least they seemed to have listened to the complaints about their original price structure and changed them, now the disc DVD sets are only £2 dearer than SV, something I suppose, I'll still be buying less than I did though...


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

SpookshowTony said:


> (Hayley)
> My plate is full with job hunting, insomnia and an irregular sleeping pattern due to insomnia. Can hardly find time for wrestling videos.


You'd think those things would compliment each other perfectly.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Just purchased Wrestlemania 12-21 for £31. Pretty sure 17, 18 & 19 would be around that alone.

I will miss you Silvervision.

EDIT: & Summerslam 98-02. I have a problem


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Great seeing Finlay on TV again. There were rumours he'd been resigned which he shot down but a couple of months later rumours again circulated that he'd been offered a position again. Was a crap reason to be fired for anyway. People need to understand to separate WWE the show from real life and accept that things like interrupting a national anthem are done purely from a character perspective to build heat for an individual and a match later in the show. Annoying how society has become so sensitive and prone to complaining that classic wrestling antics are now being latched onto as 'unacceptable'. Del Rio ripping the sign of a kid praising Sheamus and the mother ranting on twitter about him being a bully a prime example. Its wrestling 101 and is part of the show.

Finlay on TV > Noble on TV. But both are special talents and its a crying shame Noble really got little to no run after his initial cruiserweight push on TV. Would have made a fine US/IC champion instead of treading water for years and becoming stagnant.

The real booking travesty however is that we now have both Regal & Finlay on the books at WWE and for some ungodly reason we're not being given sub 10 minute matches on TV. Fuck have them work the scrubs of NXT and Superstars for all I care, Finlay & Regal being backstage/commentating respectively is as much of a waste as continually pushing Miz is, feck sake.

Not seen Cena/Ziggler. Don't get the booking behind it whatsoever. The idea of Ziggler trying various routes to screw Cena out of a victory isn't bad, but they should handle it more tastefully and give him strong nearfalls without sacrificing his signature offence. Cena winning with one move also doesn't help given the moves he's kicking out of and only serves to make Ziggler look weak and further explain why crowds won't take him seriously as a champion. I get that Cena will be in a big money match and you don't ideally want him losing too much, but there has to be a smarter way to book around Ziggler needing good exposure and to be presented in proper fashion whilst compensating for the fact Cena can't be doing too many jobs before a big money bout at Wrestlemania.

Cody being the latest person to pimp Sheamus/Ziggler from Main Event ensures I shall watch it at some point tonight.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Salt Upon Wounds said:


> You'd think those things would compliment each other perfectly.



I have to be in the mood. Plus, I don't want to mark out at 3 in the AM and wake up others in the house.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Over the Limit 2011- World Heavyweight Title - Randy Orton (c) Vs. Christian ****
*

Was ok at first but definately picked up as it neared the end when the nearfalls started which makes sense as a match should build to the finish. Liked Christians pump fake crossbody and Ortons innovative submission move. These two have great matches and had other good/great matches over the summer.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Got a bit of catching up to do right now.

- Shield vs Ryback/Hell No from TLC
- Punk/Ryback TLC
- Raw 20th Anniversary
- Smackdown last week

Already liking face Del Rio after 5 minutes of watching. Also surprised at how over he is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think Finlay's been back with WWE since before WM last year. He was at the HOF and appeared on camera a couple of times, with a mention from someone too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Big Show v Alberto Del Rio - Smackdown (1/11/13)*
I'd happily call this a good match with good performances from both guys but I didn't love it. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come from Del Rio as a babyface because I thought he did a nice job of making himself look vulnerable yet being resourceful and intense searching for openings on offense. Show was great as the monster heel. "IT'S GONNA BE A LONG NIGHT PEDRO!" gave me flashbacks to Mark Henry's awesome trash-talking against Punk last year. Del Rio rolling to his feet to survive the KO punch was well done and the finishing sequence was smart and very well executed by Del Rio. Can't say there was anything bad about the match but it was missing something for me. Can't quite put my finger on it but yeah, thought it was good but not great. Definitely worth watching but I'm not adding it to my list.

The List:

1. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
2. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nice that you enjoyed it and both performances, think my point about it being a match that will depend on how much the story and build towards the finishing run grabs you in terms of people's thoughts on it is pretty much spot on going by the reviews for it. Nothing people can point to as being bad or detracting from the match, but the basic action and overall pacing is something that will either attract strong praise aka me & Seabs or be seen as good, solid yet not quite spectacular.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Nice that you enjoyed it and both performances, think my point about it being a match that will depend on how much the story and build towards the finishing run grabs you in terms of people's thoughts on it is pretty much spot on going by the reviews for it. Nothing people can point to as being bad or detracting from the match, but the basic action and overall pacing is something that will either attract strong praise aka me & Seabs or be seen as good, solid yet not quite spectacular.


Correct. I also think that WWE spoiling the result hurt it for me. Moments like Del Rio surviving the KO punch and mounting that final assault with the steel steps and the announce table came off as well executed but I didn't care all that much because I knew he was winning. I'm sure it would've had more of an effect on me if I didn't see it coming. The crowd wasn't the best either. "Good, solid yet not quite spectacular" is precisely my take on it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Aye that did baffle me tbh. Guessing it was done to try and spike a rating increase and maybe pull more people into watching the show and make future TV title matches seem more special and less predictable. It did obviously lessen the emotional impact when you knew Del Rio would win, but I'm a fan of well worked, smart and creative matches and this match was precisely that so I can look past that and still appreciate the performances even if the ending being spoiled does leave a bitter taste. Can appreciate why people will think slightly less of it though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm looking forward to the rematch. ANGRY SHOW


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah it would do well to top the match in my eyes, but like the Sheamus/Show matches it would appear their chemistry would make it hard for them to deliver anything close to a bad match, even if the original match might end being the best of the bunch. Think Ricardo could also add to a ton to Del Rio matches even more as a face. Being the manager/friend/cheerleader for Del Rio, getting the crowd invested and being capable of eating a bump or two to build some heat, it should make for an entertaining spectacle and add to Del Rio's act as a whole. Would hope they give Del Rio a bit of length before any potential Ziggler cash in, but I'm interested in where the title scene is headed. Del Rio/Ziggler could occur, Sheamus/Orton is constantly rumoured, Ryback winning his first world title seemed plausible though Show not being champ lessens the chances of that imo.

Forgot to add, Show's 'what does the letter C have to do with anything' line last night on Raw was amazing. Great comeback to the SI! chants.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*WWE SmackDown 1/11/2013*
LAST MAN STANDING for the *World Heavyweight Championship*: The Big Show (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio

_Had no idea Del Rio turned face. How and why it happened, lol? I guess it was not long time ago, because he didn't get big reactions and pops in this match. Anyway, this was really good, the best LMS in WWE since Cena/Edge. I appreciated pacing and structure the most. Can't believe there are still people who connect physical properties with storytelling abilities, because the Big Show has always been one of the most underappreciated ring generals out there. Given normal and no-bullshit circumstances, he can go. He was the star of the match by setting his own pace, and he was great in doing so. Del Rio was good, he did the basic babyface stuff. The ending was very fine._
*Rating: ***3/4*


*WWE Royal Rumble 2007*
LAST MAN STANDING for the *WWE Championship*: John Cena (c) vs. Umaga

_Holy teenage daughter of MOSES! Watched this match only once, back in 2008, but I was heavily drunk and high, therefore I was remembering this only vaguely. Now, 5 years later, this felt...beautiful. Amazing LMS. Once again, a monster heel made a LMS match. Damn, Umaga was brilliant here. Fantastic performance. He was destroying Cena and lurking around like a predator. What the fuck happened to his push? Too bad he'll only be remembered as just another Randomer to Cena's "Superman's Chronicles" collection. Cena was great too. Gotta give some credit, where credit is due. This was not just another heroic babyface performance, this was where he stepped the fuck up, and gave us the serious Match of the Decade contender, as far as WWE goes. Excellent match, with great and brutal spots, and captivating storytelling._
*Rating: ******


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, Del Rio/Show definitely has me warming to ADR as a babyface worker already. Ricardo is greatness.

Show is a top 10 worker in the company, no doubt about it. Wouldn't argue with people having him in their top 5 either.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

@ Joe: Del Rio 'turned' at TLC when 3MB started insulting the spanish announce team. Ricardo came out to sort of play peace-maker, 3MB threatened to rough him up and Del Rio ran down, layed them out and teamed with Miz for an impromptu 6 man tag later in the night. Brooklyn Brawler was their partner.

In typical WWE fashion though, he ran over Santa on the Christmas Eve addition of RAW and had a Miracle on 34th Street Fight with Cena where he was made out to be evil for nearly killing Santa. After that though, Show picked Ricardo as an opponent when Booker allowed him to handpick his opponent for a title match and that basically kickstarted the feud with Del Rio protecting Ricardo.

Agreed on Cena/Umaga, albeit not quite as high. Excellent match, the proof that Cena can play an engaging and heroic babyface and arguably the best partner he had working against minus Lesnar in terms of mercilessly beating him as well as being agile enough to bump well and put over Cena's comeback. Cena getting crushed by the samoan drop as he teases a comeback forever remains a brilliant yet brutal visual.

@ *Saint Dick*. Yup, amazing how Del Rio in one week now has me interested in his work. He was never 'bad' as a heel, but just couldn't make the logical armwork and nice bumps mean much in the grand scheme of things. He's certainly got the offence, emotive selling, facial expressions, sense of structure and timing and bumping ability however to shine as a babyface and let the heel worker worry about making his part of the match more engaging and impactful.

EDIT: I prefer Henry as far as monster heels go, but Show really is underrated. Sadly he's now in an age where his work which plays to the strength of a giant isn't as visually appealing as quicker and more energetic workers and he cops more stick than he should. I appreciate a more slow and organic style of wrestling isn't to everyone, but his best work demonstrates his value.

He also needs more respect for some of the bumps he's willing to take not only for his size, but also at his age and value to the company where he could easily wrestle a relaxed style and not bump as much as he does. Flip bumps off of Bryan's dropkicks as well as the nutty electric chair bump in the Sheamus match deserve more recognition in terms of 'going the extra mile' than I've seen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I must agree that I'm much higher on Del Rio in his short time as a face than I ever was when he was a heel. Ricardo helps, too.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Youmanga. 

Was his series with Hunter good? Not sure I've seen them all.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Cyber Sunday street fight was good from what I remember.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Duke Droese said:


> Youmanga.
> 
> Was his series with Hunter good? Not sure I've seen them all.


Their street fight was good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> [*WWE Royal Rumble 2007*
> LAST MAN STANDING for the *WWE Championship*: John Cena (c) vs. Umaga
> 
> _Holy teenage daughter of MOSES! Watched this match only once, back in 2008, but I was heavily drunk and high, therefore I was remembering this only vaguely. Now, 5 years later, this felt...beautiful. Amazing LMS. Once again, a monster heel made a LMS match. Damn, Umaga was brilliant here. Fantastic performance. He was destroying Cena and lurking around like a predator. What the fuck happened to his push? Too bad he'll only be remembered as just another Randomer to Cena's "Superman's Chronicles" collection. Cena was great too. Gotta give some credit, where credit is due. This was not just another heroic babyface performance, this was where he stepped the fuck up, and gave us the serious Match of the Decade contender, as far as WWE goes. Excellent match, with great and brutal spots, and captivating storytelling._
> *Rating: ******


Absolutely _love _this match. *****3/4* for me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Umaga is fantastic. Right up there with HHH/Jericho as the best last man standing match in company history.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena/Umaga is just story telling at its best!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/4 for Cena/Umaga. That finish makes me want to murder people.

And speaking of things that make me want to murder people... watching HHH/Steiner RR 03! Event up to this point hasn't been too good either. Show/Lesnar was good, but tag titles and women's match bring it down. Posted my RR 2000 thoughts on my BLOG~! earlier today . Now THAT is a pretty great RR event.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Cena/Umaga is fantastic. Right up there with HHH/Jericho as the best last man standing match in company history.


Yup. That match was truly phenomenal. It didn't feel like a brawl but rather two men literally ripping each other apart for the WWE championship. It was just brutal and intense. Cena choking Umaga out with the ring ropes and the way Umaga sold it like a champ was amazing. 










I would love to re-watch this match. For the life of me, I can't find it anywhere though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

****1/2 for Cena/Umaga. One of the best LMS matches I've seen and I liked the finish.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

****1/2 for Cena/Umaga. Greatest LMS ever. #26 greatest match of all time for me as well (WWE only... which encompasses 95% of the matches I've seen, if not more).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cena/Umaga doesn't even touch HHH/Jericho, the latter of which has possibly the greatest ending to a wrestling match that I've ever seen.

Cena/Youmanga - *** 1/2
Game/Jericho - **** 3/4 (could be *****, haven't watched in a year or two)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Umaga Last Man Standing match was the best match from WWE in 2007 if not out of the entire year barring about one match. _(Danielson vs Morishima & MAYBE Generico/Steen vs Briscoes Ladder War)_

So it's pretty :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/HHH I have at ****1/2 as well, and actually number 28 on my list of matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CM Punk vs Ryback (TLC) - Raw 7/1/13 - ★★★¼
Cena vs Ziggler (Steel Cage) - 14/1/13 - ★★

- The first one was a very good match with several cool spots and good action. Also liked Punk's selling of his knee after missing that aerial move. Ryback may have forgot to sell those chair-shots but momentum just naturally shifted and I didn't mind it so it didn't bring down the match very much.

- Cage match was just decent. Nothing special and a huge lack of actual ring action as they spend most of the time climbing out of the cage and battling there or by the door. Loved Cena kicking out of Ziggler's signature offense much to the smarks' frustration and then overcoming the odds in SuperCena fashion. :lol

And Cena/Umaga LMS is absolutely awesome. ★★★★½ or ¾, not sure which.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Didn't really know where to put this, so here will do I guess. A cool documentary about Fit Finlay I saw a few weeks back.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Cena vs. Umaga at Royal Rumble '07 gets a ★★★★3/4 from me. Watched it again not too long ago and it's still as equally enjoyable and as equally epic as the first time I've seen it. One of the best Last Man Standing matches I've ever witnessed, it's certainly up there with Triple H vs. Jericho at Fully Loaded '00. An intense match with plenty of brutal hardcore spots, captivating storytelling, etc. Always thought of it as a (believable) modern day classic David vs. Goliath battle.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

***1/2 for the Ziggler/Cena steel cage match. It was insanely fun and had great heat throughout.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Didn't really know where to put this, so here will do I guess. A cool documentary about Fit Finlay I saw a few weeks back.


oh man oh man (Y)

Cena/Dolph cage stunk. It only slightly edges out their shitfest last Monday, but the constant poor booking remains the same.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

****1/2 for Cena/Umaga LMS, Umaga R.I.P. as well as Cena were both absolutely incredible in that match. Love that match to death.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If you're gonna have Cena win then have him kick out of 1 finisher, tops. Or at least have him FU Dolph like 10 times in a row so he doesn't look like such a muppet (first usage of muppet ever).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dolph = Cena's muppet currently.



_(stole your thunder Greg)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did Ziggler even manage to hit his finisher in the cage match? Can't remember. I'm actually beginning to dislike Cena in the ring now. Before it was just his god awful character I hated, but he'd always deliver in the ring. Now he's just in superkamicena mode none fucking stop. HHH put the WCW guys over more in his matches than Cena does with his opponents today. Steiner and Nash at least looked like fucking threats to HHH.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think the same trio of finishers were hit, no? Zig Zag/Superkick/Langston's finisher? I could be wrong, as I haven't seen the match, but I read up about it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ziggler used every big move in his arsenal on Cena last night including cool spots like the top rope DDT, and reversing the STF into the Sleeper Hold. The match played well to the hot crowd but the booking didn't leave Ziggler looking that great and Cena no sold the damage he had received in the cage match at the end.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Big Z said:


> Did Ziggler even manage to hit his finisher in the cage match? Can't remember. I'm actually beginning to dislike Cena in the ring now. Before it was just his god awful character I hated, but he'd always deliver in the ring. Now he's just in superkamicena mode none fucking stop. HHH put the WCW guys over more in his matches than Cena does with his opponents today. Steiner and Nash at least looked like fucking threats to HHH.


Yeah Ziggler hit him with the zig zag when cena was coming down after trying to escape the cage but couldn't because Langston had the chair.

Ziggler literally hit everything he had against Cena and Cena won with one Attitude Adjustment. It completely destroys the legitimacy of Ziggler's offense, that's what upsets me about the steel cage match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Superkick is all I think he hit, and that's not his finisher or anything so yeah. Not defending Cena here, because a fucking top rope DDT or a Superkick SHOULD end a match, but I don't recall Ziggler hitting the ZigZag at any point. EDIT: Ok, so he did use the ZigZag. Fuck Cena even more.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

He hit the ZigZag when Cena went back in the ring after Big E was hitting the cage with that chair.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would like to know why Cena agrees to blatantly bury people like this. You can't tell me he doesn't have any control.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Would like to know why Cena agrees to blatantly bury people like this. You can't tell me he doesn't have any control.


I don't think he really cares.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Rating for the cage match? Should I watch it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the Hogan booking all over again. I love John-boy but fuck me. I've seen Zack Ryder vs Undertaker that left Ryder looking better than Dolph against Cena for crying out loud.

EDIT ~ not really Kenny. It's decent at best pardon the crap booking. unless you just want to see every DOLPH match from 2013.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sucks considering how hard Dolph works to make his opponents look amazing yet Cena does the opposite in return in consecutive weeks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who wants to bet that Cena will be the one to eliminate Ziggler from the Rumble too?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wouldn't be surprised. I'm not one who complains much about booking because it is what it is but fuck me.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler takes one shot to the head from the cage door and an AA later on, loses.

Cena takes a top rope DDT, a superkick, a shot to the head from the cage door, a zigzag, wins and walks out as if he had only been in there for a minute and says 'all in a day's work'. Ugh. Things like that are what make me hate him. He had actually been going okay and he had barely made me hate him at all throughout 2012. Apart from no selling his match with Lesnar and not taking time off, he didn't do anything else to annoy me. He could have at least walked out looking hurt or tired or something.

Plus, if he was going to win so decisively this week then why make him win after 4 Ziggler finishers/signatures last week? They could have at least given Ziggler the win and I wouldn't have minded Cena winning the cage match. Langston continues to look completely useless as well.

A good cage match apart from all that shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No, this is well worth complaining about. Only b/c it makes zero sense. The ONLY logical aspect I can think the company is going for is a two pronged attacked:

1) Cena begins the year off in a furiously strong way. Owning DOLPH at every turn and eventually winning the Royal Rumble to make up for the ghastly affair that was his 2012. (Rock wins vs Punker and there you go)

2) Dolph gets in a rut. That mini-angle has formed with the clouded murmuring that he can't get himself to the higher level. that goes on for a bit until he cashes in. he breaks the ceiling and goes from there. kind of Danielson fashion of being down until he cashes in only to send him on a strong path as World Champ for a bit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some random ratings before I'm out of this.

The Rock vs Chris Jericho (NM 01) - ★★★★½
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - (NM 08) - ★★★★
Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (NM 08) - ★★★¾

Gonna watch Taker/Show from NM sometime soon as well.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> Rating for the cage match? Should I watch it?


Yeah, it's worth watching. It's extremely entertaining and Dolph is his usual great self. Yeah, Cena did kick out of a lot of stuff but they have to make him look nearly unbeatable going into his Wrestlemania main event against The Rock. Nobody is going to remember this match once Dolph becomes World Heavyweight Champion anyway so I'm not getting the bitching about the match and how Dolph was "buried."


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Some random ratings before I'm out of this.
> 
> The Rock vs Chris Jericho (NM 01) - ★★★★½
> Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - (NM 08) - ★★★★
> ...


IMO

****1/4
*****
****1/4

Ladder demands more LOVIN. Taker vs Show is :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Beating Ziggler two weeks in a row in such convincing fashion makes no sense for a company that is in need of new stars. An interesting strategy going forward for sure.

We're staring Cena & Rock II straight in the face. :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> No, this is well worth complaining about. Only b/c it makes zero sense. The ONLY logical aspect I can think the company is going for is a two pronged attacked:
> 
> 1) Cena begins the year off in a furiously strong way. Owning DOLPH at every turn and eventually winning the Royal Rumble to make up for the ghastly affair that was his 2012. (Rock wins vs Punker and there you go)
> 
> 2) Dolph gets in a rut. That mini-angle has formed with the clouded murmuring that he can't get himself to the higher level. that goes on for a bit until he cashes in. he breaks the ceiling and goes from there. kind of Danielson fashion of being down until he cashes in only to send him on a strong path as World Champ for a bit.


All of this makes sense but they can do it without burying Dolph's offense and making him look like shit.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

The problem with the cage match for me has more to do with how Cena won. He basically had the match won like 2 or 3 times before finally pinning Ziggler.... Ziggler hit him with all of his finishing moves and Cena kicked out of all of them. Without Big E. Langston and AJ Lee, Cena would've had this match won a total of 3 times while Ziggler ends up with zero.

And yeah, no near falls at all for Dolph. He loses after one Attitude Adjustment. I just wouldn't care if he won the title because of how poorly he's being booked. He looks weak.

Why would it have mattered if Cena lost last night? it wouldn't have hurt him or the "rock vs. cena part II match" at all. He just defeated Ziggler two weeks in a row on television. It doesn't make any sense, really...


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

GOON The Legend said:


> Yeah, it's worth watching. It's extremely entertaining and Dolph is his usual great self. Yeah, Cena did kick out of a lot of stuff but they have to make him look nearly unbeatable going into his Wrestlemania main event against The Rock. Nobody is going to remember this match once Dolph becomes World Heavyweight Champion anyway so I'm not getting the bitching about the match and how Dolph was "buried."


I wouldn't say Dolph was 'buried'. He did win that important PPV ladder match so he looks okay. It's just they had a chance to make him look even better with these two matches but instead they just gave Cena two decisive wins for no real reason.

But yes, the match is still great fun to watch. Last week's match was good too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> All of this makes sense but they can do it without burying Dolph's offense and making him look like shit.


Of course they can. That's what makes the "burial" stuff so tragic.

Hyperbole, but it's a lame turn of events any way you slice it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yep, just for the record, I don't have a problem with Cena beating Dolph in a logical way. It can be done. But to do it in that fashion AND two Raws in a row is just counter-productive in making a new star and doesn't make much sense in the circumstance of the current storyline.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Twisted14 said:


> I wouldn't say Dolph was 'buried'. He did win that important PPV ladder match so he looks okay. It's just they had a chance to make him look even better with these two matches but instead they just gave Cena two decisive wins for no real reason.
> 
> But yes, the match is still great fun to watch. Last week's match was good too.


I agree that the matches were fun (especially the cage match), but Ziggler needed to look better in that Ladder Match and not job two weeks in a row to Cena if they want to build him up as the future champion. Otherwise he's just some midcarder who doesn't belong in the ring with John.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Of course they can. That's what makes the "burial" stuff so tragic.
> 
> Hyperbole, but it's a lame turn of events any way you slice it.


Exactly. And it's not nitpicking or SMARK RAGE or anything like that. I get what they're going for. Building up Cena to have a huge 2013 and all that. That's fine. I have no problem with the face of the company going over Ziggler twice in a row but it's the manner in which they've done it that sucks balls. 

The whole 2013 being Cena's year thing is another reason why he should have lost to Lesnar last year. Cena getting back to his best this year would've been more important and just better if he had lost to Rock, Brock and whoever else in 2012.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

@ShowStopper - Exactly. It's not Dolph losing that was really the problem. It's the fashion of how it was done. I honestly think they're doing this on purpose. I really, really can't think they believe what they're doing right now is working. Even with the scenario I played out it's on the baffling side. For whatever reason the booking of making Dolph weak atm has to be legit & not by pure happenstance of the company wanting Cena to overcome yet again.

@Ownage - I'll agree with that. But realistically that should have spiraled into the heel turn scenario that has been thrown out about 100x since last year. If only we got what we wanted. *sigh*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Exactly. It's not Dolph losing that was really the problem. It's the fashion of how it was done. I honestly think they're doing this on purpose. I really, really can't think they believe what they're doing right now is working. Even with the scenario I played out it's on the baffling side. For whatever reason the booking of making Dolph weak atm has to be legit & not by pure happenstance of the company wanting Cena to overcome yet again.


I hope you're right but I can't see any positives in making Dolph look weak. And it's not like Cena needs to regain credibility or anything like that. He's been cemented as the top guy in the WWE for a long time now and the fans will buy into whatever program they put him in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm just trying to grasp at what the WWE is doing right now. If the scenario lacks logic then that's the sad fact of it. b/c I'm almost at a loss, quite frankly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Greg Valentine vs Roddy Piper, Dog Collar Chain Match, NWA Starrcade (11/24/83)*

Nasty, violent encounter here with a great utilisation of the chain throughout the match and some appropriately harrowing spots. Both men bleed a fair bit with Piper blading his ear area to continue the ear injury he suffered in their last encounter and Valentine bleeds badly after a few chain shots to the face. Bunch of really nasty bumps from both men, with Valentine being wrenched back to the mat with considerable force sticking out the most, looked really nasty and Piper pulled no punches in yanking on the chain. Thought both men but especially Piper utilised the chain and its hinderaces rather well, such as tying Valentine up in the corner and leaving him a sitting duck for an attack, using the chain to the ribs to break up a suplex attempt and using the chain to counter out of a late match sleeper. Valentine was as stiff as you'd expect in this situation and layed in a few meaty chain shots. Piper isn't exactly a great babyface seller but he played a fired up face well and threw some great jabs as the match progressed and kept the crowd invested throughout. Finish is a downer though and feels anti-climatic for the work that came before it, but the post match angle is a fine way for Valentine to retain his heat.


*Jim Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer, Mid South (11/11/85)*

Oh man, this was beautiful and what I consider to embody pro wrestling. Just a total bloodbath of a brawl that feels like an old barfight in a western. Its like Charles Bronson meets Henry Fonda and they won't stop until there's no more blood to be spilt. Sawyer is a fucking psycho with some of the bumps he fearlessly takes into the guardrail, the speed is frightening let alone his willingness to do a few unprotected. He's also a slimy sleaze who looks like the most scummiest piece of trailer trash to enter Mid South and has this loathesome attribute that makes his beating so transcendent to watch. Duggan proves why its a crying shame people only associate him with a 2x4 and a catchphrase when you see what a surly charismatic and frightening machine he was in his prime. He's great screaming at the ref to 'get out of my fucking face' and he manages to channel the balance between elaborate performance theatrics beautifully whilst punching Sawyer square in the jaw the next. Loved how reckless, gritty, nasty and unco-operative the whole fight looked. Everything from Sawyer attemtping a rash shoot takedown, to gouging Duggan's eyes, to raking the back at any chance he got, it just came off how an authentic brawl should: violent, uncontainable and genuine. Sawyer biting the flesh of Duggan and spitting blood made for a great visual and the Mid South grainy footage added a ton of charm and filthiness to the entire match. Stick this in a bar in the south with an unlikeable drunk fuck in Sawyer and the town idol in Duggan and you basically have the perfect setting.

Post match angle is incredible and really completes the match as Sawyer gets intentionally counted out as if to say 'fuck this beating, I'll come back another day' only for his pride and spirit to force him back to the ring to cheapshot Duggan and start a pull apart brawl. Loved how this continued into the back with Sawyer making a frantic bid to jump Duggan whilst barely being able to lift his feet off the ground. Captured the hate and disdain for the others' existence perfectly and Duggan again cussing like a Scotsman whilst being pulled away really got over the angle. Sawyer screaming Duggan's name until he collapses with blood pouring down his face and his body looking spent and broken was the perfect closing visual. Masterpiece of a pro wrestling match/angle and a crying shame we won't get anything close to this ever again.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hailsabin said:


> It's the Hogan booking all over again. I love John-boy but fuck me. I've seen Zack Ryder vs Undertaker that left Ryder looking better than Dolph against Cena for crying out loud.
> 
> EDIT ~ not really Kenny. It's decent at best pardon the crap booking. unless you just want to see every DOLPH match from 2013.


DOLPH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hard to believe once upon a time Piper was a less than wild babyface on the latter career of his territory days. Felt so unnatural when compared to his general work, especially as the most hated guy in the world of wrestling at one time. That being said, I adore the Dog Collar match. The brutal bloody ear work is tremendous.

DOLPH indeed, Kenny.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

I remember on raw in 2011 there was a champion vs champion match between Cena and Christian. Was it any good? I can't seem to find it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

So it looks like WWE is doing a 'Before they were stars' theme for WWE Classics on Demand in February. Pretty sweet. I'm looking forward to seeing the listings for it. Here's hoping they'll show the 'WWF Before they were Superstars' DVD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Relax, it's NOT going to be Rock-Cena II. If anything they'll do a triple threat with either Lesnar or Punk involved for a few reasons, number one being an interview Rock had about a week ago or so claiming that he was "pumped" about his Wrestlemania opponent and he believes that him and his opponent will break records. A rematch with Cena would do less buys than XXVIII , Rock isn't stupid in the slightest. I'm convinced we're getting Lesnar-Rock because it makes so much sense with the whole BOX OFFICE comments, Heyman being involved, Lesnar signing with the WWE in the first place (dude is a straight up money addict and HATES not performing in the absolute main event... He HAD to know who his Mania opponent was going to be before he signed), etc.

The way the stars are aligning, it looks like a ROCK-BROCK Wrestlemania main event. The biggest PPV draw in MMA history Brock Lesnar (four out of UFC's five highest drawing shows were headlined by Lesnar) going up against arguably the biggest PPV draw in WWE history on the biggest show of them all ? Makes TOO much sense. Brock and Rock aren't stupid, and know what's good for business when they signed their deals and agreed to their Mania matches so long in advance like they probably did.

The only problem is... If we get Lesnar/Rock, where the hell does that leave the rest of the card exactly ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Arm-Bar1004 said:


> I remember on raw in 2011 there was a champion vs champion match between Cena and Christian. Was it any good? I can't seem to find it.


Went 3:16 and ended in a DQ. So it's not worth your time.



KingOfKings said:


> Relax, it's NOT going to be Rock-Cena II. If anything they'll do a triple threat with either Lesnar or Punk involved for a few reasons, number one being an interview Rock had about a week ago or so claiming that he was "pumped" about his Wrestlemania opponent and he believes that him and his opponent will break records. A rematch with Cena would do less buys than XXVIII , Rock isn't stupid in the slightest. I'm convinced we're getting Lesnar-Rock because it makes so much sense with the whole BOX OFFICE comments, Heyman being involved, Lesnar signing with the WWE in the first place (dude is a straight up money addict and HATES not performing in the absolute main event... He HAD to know who his Mania opponent was going to be before he signed), etc.
> 
> The way the stars are aligning, it looks like a ROCK-BROCK Wrestlemania main event. The biggest PPV draw in MMA history Brock Lesnar (four out of UFC's five highest drawing shows were headlined by Lesnar) going up against arguably the biggest PPV draw in WWE history on the biggest show of them all ? Makes TOO much sense. Brock and Rock aren't stupid, and know what's good for business when they signed their deals and agreed to their Mania matches so long in advance like they probably did.
> 
> The only problem is... If we get Lesnar/Rock, where the hell does that leave the rest of the card exactly ?


I don't see how that is a certainty one bit. Certain wrestling fans would still plunk down money to see another Rock vs Cena match + whatever might be on the card.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm just a hopeful mother fucker for :brock getting a decent Mania match. There's NO way that when Lesnar signed the deal they sat down with him and said "Okay Brock here's how this is going to work, at Summerslam you're going over Triple H, but at Wrestlemania he's going to get a win back over you". Lesnar would never ever agree to that because he knows he wouldn't make as much money off that match as he would being in the MAIN EVENT with Rock. OR TAKER 

The only person it makes sense for Triple H to go against is Punk or to referee The Undertaker match, and I don't know how he'd feud with Punk. The tension is fucking KILLING ME to see how this Mania card unfolds. Personally I'd love it if Cena won the Rumble, only for Punk-Rock to main event and Brock cost Rock the title. For that half an hour - forty five minutes the IWC would explode thinking we were getting Rock-Cena II :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Or Triple H doesn't have a match on the card to squash that idea. He doesn't need one after the way he went out vs Taker & then vs Brock.

If Brock will work WM (which has to happen considering the one year deal) he'll probably work vs...shoot idk. Only guy left is Taker if Rock isn't his opponent. I'm tired of speculating. The only thing I think will happen is Rock vs Cena II and the rest I'll just have to react when created.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'll die a little inside if HHH isn't on the card.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *Greg Valentine vs Roddy Piper, Dog Collar Chain Match, NWA Starrcade (11/24/83)*
> 
> Nasty, violent encounter here with a great utilisation of the chain throughout the match and some appropriately harrowing spots. Both men bleed a fair bit with Piper blading his ear area to continue the ear injury he suffered in their last encounter and Valentine bleeds badly after a few chain shots to the face. Bunch of really nasty bumps from both men, with Valentine being wrenched back to the mat with considerable force sticking out the most, looked really nasty and Piper pulled no punches in yanking on the chain. Thought both men but especially Piper utilised the chain and its hinderaces rather well, such as tying Valentine up in the corner and leaving him a sitting duck for an attack, using the chain to the ribs to break up a suplex attempt and using the chain to counter out of a late match sleeper. Valentine was as stiff as you'd expect in this situation and layed in a few meaty chain shots. Piper isn't exactly a great babyface seller but he played a fired up face well and threw some great jabs as the match progressed and kept the crowd invested throughout. Finish is a downer though and feels anti-climatic for the work that came before it, but the post match angle is a fine way for Valentine to retain his heat.


Piper/Valentine is such an incredible fight. If it happened in WWE I'd probably call it a top 30 WWE match ever. That miiiiiiight be stretching it because I haven't seen it in years, but thinking about some of the stuff I would have for a top 30 in WWE, Piper/Valentine would probably be fucking with it. Roddy Piper is one of the best "I will actually kill you" wrestlers ever. Like, a lot of wrestlers do 'hate' really well, but when he hates someone you get that feeling that he's absolutely willing to beat them to death and go to jail with a smile on his face knowing that he accomplished his goal of murdering whoever pissed him off. Probably the most charismatic wrestler off all time, as well. Valentine is just your stiff-as-shit ultimate break-your-face badass. Both guys will brawl when the match isn't even a brawl and this was a motherfucking brawl and it's amazing and MILLIONBILLION/10.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Last night I feel asleep watching a Triple H match.

Granted, it was against the POS known as Carlito, but I'm still very disappointed in myself. Making an attempt to watch this fucking PPV one more time, when I thought it couldn't get any more lifeless than Summerslam 2007... :hhh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All you should watch from Unforgiven is the World Tag Team Championship match and call it a day.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought Punk vs Burke was a pretty damn good match, not expecting much from the rest of the card though. Trips-Carlito and the WWE TAG CHAMPIONSHIP were pretty fucking bad matches. Not expecting much from this next Divas match either. My projected score for this show is like...... 1 maybe :lol

I still haven't reviewed enough PPVs with the Cal Scale to determine what's good, what's bad, what's awesome, and what's terrible yet.... But this will probably be the lowest score I give to a show for a very, very long time 

Undertaker vs Mark Henry, why must two guys I love so much have to put on such a supposed horrendous main event ? I'm strangely looking forward to it..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

While I haven't seen the event in years, I recall Taker vs Henry being ghastly. Maybe I just can't remember it correctly, but it was nothing special whatsoever. Much like the rest of the event. The show is so bad that most credit the Beth vs Candice match as one of the better matches only b/c it wasn't a DUD like everyone expected :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's actually not that bad, as Beth looks pretty good when she's dominating and CANDACE sells for DA GLAMAZON pretty fucking good. It's not GOOD or anything, but it's definitely not bad as King switches up his commentary to seem concerned about Candae, making it pretty fucking interesting to listen to. We're currently on a streak of three matches in a row less than two snowflakes though, which is fucking inexcusable on a PPV..

Oh GOOD. I get a KHALI match now. :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

8 MINUTE TRIPLE THREAT WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

pass...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

To their credit, up to this point they've built up to this match pretty damn well, giving each of the three men PROMO time throughout the PPV while we also get a pretty damn good pre-match video package.

FUCK, the WWE production team can kick some major fucking ass at times with their pre match video packages. Batista-Triple H from Vengeance 2005 is just :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched the steel cage match from last night. What a fuckin joke. Cena no selling a 20 minute steel cage match in which he took multiple signatures moves and ate the cage itself a few times is infuriating.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I'll die a little inside if HHH isn't on the card.


Sorry for double post but this is my sentiment as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched Cena-Orton fron UNFORGIVEN.

Fucking TERRIBLE match. I blame half of that to the extremely shitty booking (typical September angle match to set up for the big time blow off gimmick match at the October PPV, see HBK-Taker and Lesnar-Taker, except those matches were fucking AWESOME) and the other half being to both giving extremely shitty performances. I mean DAMN Orton, in that short of a match did you have to break out an ORTON HEADLOCK for like two fucking minutes ? Worst match of the night so far, worse than the Divas match believe it or not 

This PPV has been REALLY bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Cena vs Orton is a total DUD iirc.

I do stand on Trips not needing a match for WrestleMania. Bad enough Rock will be there too for a nostalgia act. Only one that needs to be is Undertaker b/c that's his event. Let the current roster try and shine on the biggest show. The only Triple H match I want is the one that has ZERO chance to occur - vs Danielson.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ok yeahTrips/Danielson would be fucking awesome. Have they ever even been in the ring at the same time?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope. Trips returned in 2011 just to own guys like Sheamus & Dibiase to build vs Undertaker. Then he did the COO stuff. More build vs Undertaker and that's it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> Nope. Trips returned in 2011 just to own guys like Sheamus & Dibiase to build vs Undertaker. Then he did the COO stuff. More build vs Undertaker and that's it.


Don't forget his little program with Punk and the no disqualification match at Night Of Champions.

Oh, and a sledgehammer ladder match with Kevin Nash :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Think Cody has blocked the Punk program from his memory :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk never lost. 8*D

but didn't bother with a mention as it's plenty known & didn't involve Danielson.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Unforgiven 2007*

CM Punk vs Elijah Burke : ***** (1)

Matt Hardy/MVP vs Deuce N’ Domino :* * 1/4* (-.5)

Triple H vs Carlito : ** ¾* (0)

Candice Michelle vs Beth Phoenix : * ** (-1)

The Great Khali vs Rey Mysterio vs Batista : ** ¾* (0)

Lance Cade/Trevor Murdoch vs Paul London/Brian Kendrick : *** ¾* (.5)

John Cena vs Randy Orton : *1/2** (-1)

The Undertaker vs Mark Henry : *** 1/4* (0)

_MOTN_ : Punk/Burke

_WMOTN_ : Cena/Orton

_Thoughts_

This FUCKING PPV. I spent a good 20 minutes before I watched this looking at reviews for this PPV and I saw nothing but shit. I was petrified at what I was going to have to witness, wondering why I spent my money on such a lackluster PPV. I was prepared for the worst, but when I saw the opener of Punk vs Burke I was pleasantly surprised at how good it actually was. Psychology was great, Punk was sharp, Burke was stiff as fuck.. Just a damn good match. However, my optimism quickly took a 180 when the next match I saw featured the likes of DEUCE N' DOMINO, the worst fucking tag team ever. Surprisingly Matt and MVP got absolutely nothing out of them, and it just sucked balls and failed as a tag match with only a good moment or two.

I saw a Triple H match that I actually didn't like, bar the last minute or so where Trips completely BURIES Carlito in one of the more hilarious and satisfying burials Trips has had in his long storied career or burying. Fuck Carlito, he deserves it for giving Trips such a bad match. Still, as a Trips fan I saw a ton of positives in the match the second time I wathed it due to Carlito essentially posing no threat whatsoever. Not a bad match, but definitely not a good one at all.

BETH was great in the Divas match, but that didn't stop it from sucking balls due to Candice having a complete inability to work any match whatsoever. Terrible, terrible match and was the THIRD match in a row that was sub TWO snowflakes.

Of course the trend of shitty matches continued with the World Heavyweight Championship on the line. Naturally this is good for KHALI standards, but it was still a horribly worked match that THANKFULLY stays short and THANKFULLY has a pretty damn awesome ending to send the fans and myself into a frenzy as Khali finally drops the belt he never should have gotten in the first place. The length of the match is LOLworthy and Batista-Mysterio would have been much better, but when you factor in that KHALI was in it, it's actually not that bad.

The tag match was above average, with some solid work throughout. It would probably be rated higher if I felt any kind of emotional attachment to Cade or Murdoch's characters like perhaps some do, but that's just not my slice of pie right there. TEAM ROH rocked in this though and made it a pretty damn good match. Would have been just a middle of the pack match on any decent PPV, but on this pile of shit it looks like gold.

John Cena vs Randy Orton... FUCK YOU. All I'm gonna say about this match before my head explodes from rage is this ; two minute long resthold in a seven minute match with a terrible ending.. All of you Cena/Orton Savants, take a look at this match right fucking now and you'll want to poke your damn eyes out. Only positive and the reason why it's not a dud is CRAZY CENA at the end. Warrants a half a star and a half a star it shall receive.

The main event had a legit feel good big time moment in Taker's return, and I actually liked the match quite a bit. Granted, it could have been due to the fact that the match is universally trashed, but for some reason I just like DOUBLE MARKS work together as a big man vs big man style. Henry can turn it on when he's in there with GOAT talent, and Taker brought his all as he knew the fans probably weren't gonna respond to this one. Great ending to the match as well, and while the pace was deliberately slow I thought it added to the structure of the match. Obviously not a GREAT match or even a GOOD match really... Just your average contest. Not main event worthy whatsoever though.

This PPV has a NEGATIVE score on the CAL SCALE, that should tell you how I feel about this one. Avoid at all costs, there is absolutely nothing on this PPV going out of your way to see unless you're a huge Taker fan and you wanna see his pretty epic looking return and subsequent match against Henry. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this could be the worst PPV I've ever seen in my entire life, and that's saying something. I know for a fact there hasn't been a worse show since it happened, that's for sure.

A low point in the company, creatively and definitely from a workrate standpoint.

*Overall Score : - 0.5 * 

What The Fuck.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Henry and Taker never got a PPV match to REALLY work. They had a pretty awesome match on SmackDown in 2006 that I posted a while back that nobody watched, and then a re-match that could have been as good had Khali not debuted his worthless ass for the finish. I really want to see their "WrestleMania Re-Match" casket match from TV whenever it was, because I would be less than surprised if it was a lot better than the actual Mania match (which should have had no gimmick and should just been a 7 foot man pretending to a zombie and a 400 lb fat sweaty black man pounding each other in the face, AKA their pretty awesome SmackDown 06 match).

They just couldn't seem to click when the spotlight was on them.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> Henry and Taker never got a PPV match to REALLY work. They had a pretty awesome match on SmackDown in 2006 that I posted a while back that nobody watched, and then a re-match that could have been as good had Khali not debuted his worthless ass for the finish. I really want to see their "WrestleMania Re-Match" casket match from TV whenever it was, because I would be less than surprised if it was a lot better than the actual Mania match (which should have had no gimmick and should just been a 7 foot man pretending to a zombie and a 400 lb fat sweaty black man pounding each other in the face, AKA their pretty awesome SmackDown 06 match).
> 
> They just couldn't seem to click when the spotlight was on them.


The light was too bright for a zombie and a man with dark skin, obviously.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Henry and Taker never got a PPV match to REALLY work. They had a pretty awesome match on SmackDown in 2006 that I posted a while back that nobody watched, and then a re-match that could have been as good had Khali not debuted his worthless ass for the finish. I really want to see their "WrestleMania Re-Match" casket match from TV whenever it was, because I would be less than surprised if it was a lot better than the actual Mania match (which should have had no gimmick and should just been a 7 foot man pretending to a zombie and a 400 lb fat sweaty black man pounding each other in the face, AKA their pretty awesome SmackDown 06 match).
> 
> They just couldn't seem to click when the spotlight was on them.


post that match again plz

_(b/c that's what you do - aka MAGIC MAN)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rewatching Hell in a Cell 2012 before I go to bed.

Miz vs Kofi Kingston up next ; goes to bed anyways :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5aowx_2006-2-10-wwe-smackdown-mark-henry_sport#.UPZhbycsmSo

Greatest steel steps bump of all time @ 6:20


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

and the video goes over 16 minutes too. Hopefully Deadman's entrance doesn't suck up too much of that time. If this rapes the Casket match like you say then DAMMIT at them not killing it at Mania.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

What would you guys consider to be the most consistent ppv through the years in usefully delivering a good-great show? My pick would be Backlash/Extreme Rules. All the Extreme Rules ppv's that took place since it got the Backlash spot have been good. And before that Backlash used to be pretty consistent as well, 2009, 2008 (bit hit and miss), 2007, 2004, 2001 (I really liked it) and 2000 is def top 5 best WWE ppv ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Harder for me to claim with WWE than it is with TNA. WWE seems to be a tad bit more sporadic with which PPVs tend to be consistent. Unforgiven & No Mercy for the majority tend to have delivered. Only bad event from either franchise was Unforgiven 2007. Rest seemed to click upon my memory. No Mercy 2008 was GREAT.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Piper/Valentine is such an incredible fight. If it happened in WWE I'd probably call it a top 30 WWE match ever. That miiiiiiight be stretching it because I haven't seen it in years, but thinking about some of the stuff I would have for a top 30 in WWE, Piper/Valentine would probably be fucking with it. Roddy Piper is one of the best "I will actually kill you" wrestlers ever. Like, a lot of wrestlers do 'hate' really well, but when he hates someone you get that feeling that he's absolutely willing to beat them to death and go to jail with a smile on his face knowing that he accomplished his goal of murdering whoever pissed him off. Probably the most charismatic wrestler off all time, as well. Valentine is just your stiff-as-shit ultimate break-your-face badass. Both guys will brawl when the match isn't even a brawl and this was a motherfucking brawl and it's amazing and MILLIONBILLION/10.


Agreed. Insanely violent and a tremendous usage of the stipulation to convey the hate and some disgusting shots from both men. Not sure I'd go top 30, mainly because of all the rewatching and having to compare clean wrestling matches with character work against a stiff chain brawl would just frazzle my noggin and fuck that. My brain is all I have. 

Duggan/Sawyer really blew me away though. The actual match itself was wonderful but the post match angle and pull apart brawl, combined with Duggan cussing and Sawyer selling the ordeal like a blood thirsty lunatic who won't fall down until he's gotten every bit of Duggan he can..man it was up there with the best of Memphis in terms of matches that turn into angles by the end. Got the return Chain match and Dundee/Koko Scaffold match to watch later today :mark:

P.S Bless your soul for giving me Finlay/Callihan. Well worth the wait if you haven't already seen it. I'll rep you constant pics of asians as payment, no promises on one of them not being Skittle :side:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Can you tell me a feud that Orton had with great matches,like the one with Christian. I tought that was the best feud of Randy's WWE career, talking strictly 'bout in-ring work


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Benoit is his best opponent match wise. Summerslam 04 and Raw the night after, 12/30/05 Smackdown and the 06 matches where he fills in for Booker during the final matches of the Best of 7 series, before a NHB match against Benoit to end the feud. There's also a really great 6 man elimination from Raw the night after Bad Blood 2004 featuring Benoit/Edge/Jericho vs Orton/Flair/Batista. Great build in making Orton and Benoit the stars of their respective teams and they have a brief but very good exchange which sets up Orton as a threat at Summerslam remarkably well.

Orton/Mysterio isn't a long running feud but NWO 2006 and especially 4/7/06 Smackdown are two of Orton's career matches. He's great as the pompous, arrogant dickhead and Mysterio is arguably the most sympathetic guy to pair him up against at that point in his career. He utilises the headlock so well in the Smackdown match compared to his later years.

Undertaker feud at Wrestlemania 21, Summerslam 05, Smackdown 05, No Mercy Casket Match & Armageddon HIAC is probably his most pimped series, albeit I find the Benoit matches better overall. Wrestlemania is a very good match, Casket match is divided but there are some who adore it (Craig) & the HIAC is regarded as one of the better HIAC matches this decade, albeit behind HHH/Batista & Lesnar/Taker.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Is it me, or was Orton miles better before he went psycho?

The only memorable matches post psycho were 'the passion of john cena' match and the series with Christian


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK is spot on with the prime Orton matches. Only one I don't find to fit would be the Casket vs Undertaker. Rest, WELL worth the watch. Runs the gammet of what Orton was once capable of in the ring. Matches vs Mysterio were purely built around Orton being the catalyst instead of Mysterio. (Rey is the easiest babyface to garner sympathy for the fans, but it's Orton's PRICK tactics that I love the most. :mark: )

None of those happened during the "Apex Predator" days. Take note of that. 

EDIT ~ and there is Redead to ninja my statement of Orton post Legend Killer sucking barring the very few exceptions.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

@ Redead: Pretty much. He wrestled like a heel, utilising all the bags of tricks such as hair pulling, using the ropes for leverage whilst applying a hold, stalling and stooging like a pro, barking orders at the crowd, feigning a hair pull when he was fairly put on his arse. He just looked so at ease in how he wrestled and had enough character and bumping combined with a solid grasp of the fundamentals that he could just as well with Benoit as he did Mysterio and Undertaker. Versatile, charismatic, loathesome, he just had it all.

Now injuries have lessened his bumping ability, he plays it safe with a formula he doesn't make attempts to deviate from, any spark or personality evaserated long ago and he's just a bore to watch in the ring. He can't really play an engaging face to save his life and I don't buy that a heel turn is the answer to his problems. He had issues back in 09 with how he utilises restholds and bar the I Quit match vs Cena he was hardly setting the world on fire when dictating a match. The problem lies in 'The Viper' and how this methodical, slow dissection of his opponents just doesn't work for him as well as being the cocky, arrogant world beating superstar who made you hate him for how damn good he was for his age.

I did find his performance vs Henry at NOC 2011 to be one of his better outings as a face. Henry brought the story and emotional attachment to his character and was on a roll, but Orton deserves credit for how helpless and desperate he made himself look. The finish with him scrambling to get to his feet, try a desperate RKO to no avail, eating a swift kick which floors him and sets up the World's Strongest Slam just made his defeat seem crushing and swift and made Henry look like a truly unstoppable monster.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Absolutely. His ability to work as a cocky twat far supersedes his storytelling and overall work while working as a methodical demon wanting blood from his opponents. Pardon, as you said, the I Quit from Breaking Point. Sure, some of his snake-like mannerisms at the start of it was fun. But, note that he was still a heel at the time. I'm not one of those guys who thinks a heel turn will immediately make Orton bearable or good again, only that it's certainly something that could help. Key being COULD as I do think he's a total loss now, tbf. He's floundering as a face. Has since he's tried it. 100% pure heel. Only he needs to be working it the right way. Viper isn't that. It's the arrogant piece of trash who'll get you to hate him.

Never saw NOC 2011 pardon the main event so can't comment on that. IMO HIAC 2011 vs Henry was ALL Henry that made me care.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I suppose he would probably work better by default as a heel. Seeing as a lot of heels in WWE today can't work a control segment to save their lives and Orton himself is hardly the fiery, investing and emotive babyface to make a control segment interesting, pairing him up with a better babyface worker might alleviate some of the problems. He'll still be a largely lifeless and uninteresting character face or heel, but Del Rio/Orton with the roles reversed seems better on paper given Del Rio's more comfortable presence as a babyface. 

Viper Orton also only seems to largely excel in these counter heavy matches such as Christian OTL. If they can find a good babyface worker who's sympathetic, times and builds his comebacks very well and is a fluid worker I could see Orton being serviceable as the heel worker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, only by default is purely my reasoning. It's kind of a point made for the obvious and that's all. I just want to see the guy TRY something different. I can't take anything he does now. Report said his match tomorrow vs Antonio Cesaro on Main Event was lengthy and good. I'll believe it when I see it of course, but MAYBE, just MAYBE Cesaro carried him to something worth watching. It's a fresh match up. That alone is promising so Orton can't run down his pointless bs, droll, overdone safe finishing stretch nonsense that causes me to smack my head drunk Jake Roberts style. Doesn't hurt that I'm a Cesaro mark and putting the confidence behind him to make something decent at best vs Orton.

Christian was the catalyst for their feud. That's all I have to say. Very few are like him and could probably create such magic with Orton like Christian managed to do. And Over the Limit was generally a one time match too. Rest of their matches didn't even come close to that once the dynamic changed.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Christian and Henry brought the story, emotion and investment to the Orton matches. The OTL match was a very well done counter driven match with them getting strong nearfalls whilst building to a battle of who could land the decisive blow first, but it was Christian's story as the underdog battling to finally break the glass ceiling that added intrigue to each counter and sequence. Not forgetting some of the more smarter spots such as Christian learning from the crossbody into RKO finish and fooling Orton, a spot that made sense, showed character development and was pure Christian.

Think what irritates me these days is how few 'performers' there are. A Jake Roberts, a Bobby Eaton or an Arn Anderson. People who can embrace the comical/character driven qualities of a match and put on a show. Stooging, making themsevles look foolish in the early going and dangerous in the middle. A bit of creativity and uniqueness or attempting to make a formula match more interesting through their charisma. A lot of the formula matches today wear thin because there's no subtlety or attachment to the characters and they won't go the extra mile like those guys of the past did to make a formula match more interesting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hate to do that whole carry job stuff but....in a much less than eloquent way that you described it, Orton was carried by the work of both Christian & Henry. Don't see how anyone could say otherwise.

Pfft, hit the nail on the head there. Even for guys I like I can say that lacks. Who else does something like that but Punker or Danielson? Kane? He's done work to where you can see him act silly but remain a monster in the ring at the right times. Far too many on the roster just go out there and work. Often bland character work the vast majority of the time without any major hooks to engross the stories of the matches given on a weekly or even monthly basis. Mark Henry needs to come back and defend this area that is sorely lacking. 

Hard to believe TNA has someone that excels in that department. Joseph Park and his unbelievable character work tends to blow away just about everyone else on the active WWE roster when you think about it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yup, Henry and to a similar extent Show are good examples of guys still trying to perform instead of just wrestling. Its so amazing to watch even as far back as 1992 WCW and just see how fun, creative and glued to a screen you are when watching Arn, Eaton, Rude, Pillman, Rhodes, Steamboat and Sting do their thing. Effortlessly fun, constantly changing things up and even when they settle on a formula the charisma and showmanship is so grand you don't question the repetitiveness, but rather marvel at how you're in love with a match you've seen countless times.

Joeseph Park actually shocked me, on account of me never giving TNA the credit they could ever book a character in such a way. So subtle and with attention payed to every precise detail, really is something that would have got over big in the 80s let alone in 2012.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Would like to know why Cena agrees to blatantly bury people like this. You can't tell me he doesn't have any control.


Egomania and insecurity. It's proven that many superstars get more insecure as they're older, everywhere. Plus, he only gives a shit about others to SOME degree, as long as it doesn't touch him. If Cena has/had any brains at all, he would've pushed HARD backstage, he would've MAKE Vince to build someone as his generation rival. Back in 2006, 2007, 2008, etc. But no, Cena ALWAYS wins. JBL, Christian, Jericho, Angle, Triple H, Umaga, Khali, Lashley, Michaels, Jericho, The Big Show, Orton, Batista, Barrett, The Miz, etc etc etc... They're all just RANDOMERS compared to Cena. They come and go. Cena stays on top. Hogan had Savage and Hellwig. Bret had Diesel and HBK. Austin, Rocky and HHH had each others. Cenah? Nah, fuck that shit, let him own people ALL THE TIME! Edge was the closest, and that's about it.




Big Z said:


> Did Ziggler even manage to hit his finisher in the cage match? Can't remember. I'm actually beginning to dislike Cena in the ring now. Before it was just his god awful character I hated, *but he'd always deliver in the ring*. Now he's just in superkamicena mode none fucking stop. HHH put the WCW guys over more in his matches than Cena does with his opponents today. Steiner and Nash at least looked like fucking threats to HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It only seems fitting to discuss a topic like this while I watch the Four Horseman documentary. ARN is one of the most perfect guys off the top of my head. So many times in the matches vs Rockers did he look like a chump while not finding a way to counter the high energy offense despite being the ultimate tough as nails competitor. Then the moment he gets the advantage with Tully, boom. He's a completely different worker. All in one match. He could range his work from this to that in the drop of a hat. Which is brilliant when you really come down to it. You hardly get a shred of that today minus about the same 5 guys. Big Show certainly is one of them, yes. While I didn't love the Last Man Standing vs Del Rio, Show's character work during it was top notch as always.

Park is probably the best character in TNA history. I'll go out on a limb and say that. After seeing just about every match/moment from TNA I really can't think of anyone who rivals it or comes close. Tons of good talent throughout the years. Not so much in the form of character ranks however. That's where Park is head and shoulders above the rest. A purely phenomenal character 100% of the way.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh I could spend all day writing about Arn and his many ways of warming my heart. By far my favourite spot of his occurs in multi man matches when both of his partners eat a dive/get thrown out of the ring. Arn bails prior and starts mouthing to the crowd about his intelligence and how a guy like him couldn't fall for a cheap trick like that, only to turn around and be met by a babyface. Too many guys don't appreciate the freedom and comical aspect that makes pro wrestling absorbing to watch anymore. They're either intent on making it as serious as possible or trying to impress management to the point where the simpler and finer things in a match are overlooked for the sake of a crowd reaction.

I'd agree on Park being the best written, creative and booked character so far. So much depth and potential and it would be a crying shame if they were to ever drop the character and revert back to Abyss.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ARN. Getting excited just talking about some of his moments. Reminds me of something Foley talked about with Chris Candido wanting to encourage being a slightly comedic cowardly heel at all times. So much to the point Foley claimed he stole a few of his antics while feuding with Undertaker. That appreciation is gold and desperately needed right now. It any wrestling promotion. Maybe not so much in Japan or in Lucha situations, but you know what I mean. I know Dolph Ziggler isn't one of the greatest workers ever, but I see him being the type of guy who'll rock that no problem. That alone should have the company backing him. It would add more to Dolph's character and persona too. Oh, and I hate how everyone wants wrestling to be so HATE filled all the time too. In certain situations, fine. All the time? Why? Where is the fun in that? Part of that is why I absolutely adore promotions like Chikara & PWG. They not only have the fun side of wrestling mixed in, but they encourage it. It's bliss, quite frankly.

I think with Joe Park graduating from wrestling school means he'll actually be able to rock the character for quite a time to come. :mark:

Oh, and Pillman praise on the Four Horseman DVD atm. Pillman - now that's a character. That man is far too underrated still, in my eyes. Maybe I'll rock his doc next.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There was a point last year where Ziggler started to impress me more by incorportating more cocky mannerisms into his work at the beginning of matches, which made his trademark bumping all the more better with the crowd having a reason to want to see him get put on his ass more. He's sort of dropped off a bit in that regard minus things like the floatover headlock and a couple of other spots to show off his agility, but I agree a guy like him should be trying to add depth and make his work reflect that of his character. It works in a live setting to rile up a crowd and let's face it, the writer won't be adding much depth or development to his character anytime soon.

Pillman is a really overlooked babyface, and he's far better in a wrestling capacity in 89-92 than he ever was as a heel, though I concede the Loose Cannon persona was definitely a worthwhile and needed character.

As for CHIKARA, I'd liken watching it to the Attitude Era. I can watch individual short videos such as Taylor and the exploding grenade in slow motion, Mr Touchdown massacring a toy bird and the crowd yelling 'You're a Monster' and Archibald Peck failing horribly in trying a springboard for the first time, but I'm not sure I can watch an entire PPV just yet. Same way I can watch a segment/promo/skit from the AE, but ask me to watch a PPV from '98 or '99 and I'll run faster than Usain Bolt.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We almost sound like fools to think the company would give Dolph those assets to his character at this current state. The way he's being booked, oof. I don't know anymore. He's capable of it, but would WWE really let Dolph morph into one of the better characters today from a pure in ring stand point working the fans more etc? We'll see. Lets not hold our breath or else you and I might not make it to see WrestleMania this year.

Certainly. He single handledly brought out one of the better matches Lex Luger had in his career at Halloween Havoc '89. Pillman's character was as a babyface was dare I say almost on Mysterio level sympathy. Could make those fans root the underdog on. JR on commentary only aided Pillman during those years to make fans want to see the kid achieve so much. WARGAMES '91 TOO. Ah, amazing. Sid's botch only worked b/c of Pillman. If it happened to say, Rick Steiner then it might have ended in a wild brawl backstage. Happening to Pillman only gave him yet another obstacle to overcome and yet another reason for the fans to be encouraged to root him on as the firery face willing to do anything for a win.

I adore the Loose Cannon gimmick too. Enough said on that point. He was wild, over the edge, and brilliant in my personal opinion. Couldn't have done it any better. Too bad it was cut short per usual.

Fair enough. Chikara can be off putting to some with their antics. I can fully understand that. I eat it up, but knowing some could see it and not quite dig it. Even from a match standpoint I think they excel past the antics too. It seems to fuse any and all conceivable aspects of wrestling into the majority of each show. It's pretty great. Just saying.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Luger in that timeframe was really excellent in his own right tbf, but Pillman was in a patch where he could work with anyone and everyone. Love the '89 Luger/Steamboat match whilst we're discussing Luger in that period. Shane Douglas is another overlooked babyface in that timeframe, specially the TV match vs ARN with Cornette on commentary. One of the finest put overs of a babyface by Cornette, selling Arn as an entirely different phenom compared to Douglas and saying he's a goner. He buries his chances to the point that Douglas' courage and heart in surviving makes him look incredible. If only Michael Cole could have grasped that ability when he was at his worst as a heel commentator.

As for CHIKARA, I do appreciate how well booked it is by all accounts as well as how they have a unique product which embraces fun and comical aspects of wrestling. My point would just be some of the more heavier storylines which on paper can sound farcical can occasionally be too much for someone like me who's only seen bits and pieces of their light hearted style  . As for matches, I really want to track down Kingston/Quack judging by how good Kingston's selling was and his story of needing to be the first singles champion in the company.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok good. It wasn't just me who actually liked Luger for a spell. I'll still give Pillman a LOT of credit for working the match the way he did. Douglas' work in NWA/WCW only seems to pop in my head with his tags alongside Steamboat. Nothing from a singles capacity sticks out, but if he locked it up with ARN then well, I have to take a look at it. That Cornette, he knew what he was doing a good portion of the time. JR & Cornette on commentary = (Y)

The promotion's serious side is often forgotten in the mist of the lighthearted aspects, but it's there. Especially with Kingston. He's got that x-factor about him that when a part of a show was FUN, here comes Eddie to rock and roll into his match ready and willing to put the hurt on his opponent. During the time the major heel faction The BDK were around the general area around Chikara was fairly tense. It certainly shook the foundation from the normal vibe on the shows. A welcomed change in my books during 2010. Gave the promotion a different feel than the norm. Every time the BDK members had a match it was instant reaction. Fans ate up hating the group. Some of those tag team championship matches with Claudio & Ares vs Chikara tandems were so drama filled.

Yes, Kingston vs Quackenbush is a must. All story. Kingston grips you by the heart and flat out makes you pull for him. Even if you were the biggest Mike Quackenbush fan alive. That's his magic. Along with the raw, gritty promos that would make Terry Funk blush. Legit must check out Kingston's Grand Championship defenses from Chikara last year too. vs Brodie Lee (probably his best), Sara Del Rey, & Tadasuke would be right up your alley. The others vs Jigsaw, Dasher Hatfield, & Tim Donst (aka another guy I think should be on your radar with his current promo work) might not be held in as high regard for you, but they're quality too. Definitely give the rugged war vs Lee a go. It's manly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh god, Cornette in general is amazing and arguably the best non wrestler personality in the business. He's so energetic, spiteful, disgusting and easily hateable. He also eats a bump in a Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express tag that was incredible.

Yeah I've heard about the Brodie Lee defence, will make an extended effort to track a link down. Kingston has forever been a guy I wish was more common on the indy scene, though perhaps part of his allure is his distinct style and appreciation for the finer things in a wrestling match. The match vs Danielson shortly after his firing in 2010 was excellent. Eddie out of price tries to wrestle Danielson on the mat, gets torn apart and has his leg ripped to shreds but out of pure heart he keeps going and finally begins to wrestle his own style before the fuck finish prematurely ends the match.

Aye his promos have always been stellar. I've seen the highly touted promo before High Noon where he pours his heart out and god damn is it poetic. Loved some of the CZW promos he cut against Hero during their war as well. Pure emotion and he played a man descending into lunacy and obsession so observantly.

Yeah I can't fault the long term booking by Quack. I read up on any shows in case anything surfaces which will attract my interest and very rarely does there seem to be a booking decision that leaves you scratching your head. Seems maticulously planned out ahead of time and there's never a story that doesn't have a well built to and meaninful payoff.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Anybody - If I wanted to get in to CHIKARA, where would be the best place to start? I've heard too many great things about it to ignore and seeing as we're on the subject in this thread I thought I may as well ask.  I was in the same situation with PWG a few years back and now I'm in love with it, I'm hoping the same happens now with CHIKARA.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Best of 2011
- 12 Large Summit
- High Noon


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Apparently Orton/Cesaro got around 20 minutes. Big chance to see if Cesaro can hang at the top of the card .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> IMO
> 
> ****1/4
> *****
> ...


Ladder match was awesome just not quite the epic match-up that I expected it to be based on other's feedback. Gotta watch the rest of their series too. 2008 looks like a fun year with PPV matches and series in general.



Redead said:


> Is it me, or was Orton miles better before he went psycho?
> 
> The only memorable matches post psycho were 'the passion of john cena' match and the series with Christian


No doubt he was better as the Legend Killer. This whole psycho thing is so overdone and makes him so boring. WOOLCOCK already explained it well a few pages back. As LK, he was always fun to watch, full of personality and top notch psychology as a heel with interesting offense. Now he's just a slow, monotone bore. Still a mark, though!



BANKSY said:


> Apparently Orton/Cesaro got around 20 minutes. Big chance to see if Cesaro can hang at the top of the card .


Really excited about this match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Going back a few a pages on the Ziggler/Cena discussion. The mast two matches have really pissed me off. I must compliment both men though for delivering actual false finishes. During that cage match, I felt as if I were watching Michaels/Taker WM 25 all over again with the false finishes. They felt real. Up untila certain point that is. After a while, they were just 2 counts.

Anyway, I'm not sure who to put blame on here. Is it management that tells Ziggler to do 50 finishers and have Cena defeat him with one or is it Dolph just trying to steal the show by doing a bunch of crazy shit? A lot of people are just blaming booking but has anyone stopped to consider, "Hey maybe Dolph's the one who's fucking himself over by doing 50 finishers a match?"

Anyone gave that some thought?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Idk why Dolph would want to do a bunch of finishers knowing he's going to lose the match. It doesn't do him any favors, and weakens his finishers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Miz vs Kofi Kingston ... Actually NOT a bad match ?

My head just fucking exploded honestly. So fucking excited to rewatch Sheamus-SHOW for the first time since it happened, should help me get a grand scope of my top 15-20 matches of 2012, a list I'll probably conjure up sometime when I have everything watched and I'm not a lazy fucker.

This show is AWESOME compared to that Unforgiven 2007 FUCKfest I just watched last night.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Ziggler in the cage was a joke.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I watched it last night. Embarrassing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know about that cage match. I legit LOL'ed when Cena was escaping the cage only for Big E to come over with a chair and start swinging hysterically, prompting Cena to climb back into the cage like a little girl. 

I swear, I love me some Johnny every now and then but DAMN, his character has been such a douchebag lately that I can't even tell if he's supposed to be a face anymore. Swear to god he just has this look about him recently that SCREAMS "jock who will bang your girlfriend and send her back to you" :lol

WHO CAN ROOT FOR HIM NOW ?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Him smiling and waltzing up the ramp afterward while Dolph lays in the ring as if he's dead made it even worse.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I watched it last night. Embarrassing.


Felt like a bad Kurt Angle match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He just acts like a complete douche in every way, shape, and form while at the same time trying to be the number one babyface in the company. This is worse than GRAND THEFT SHEAMUS a few months back honestly. What the fuck is up with WWE making their top babyfaces such despicable people ? Do they think we gravitate more towards douchebags ? This is absurd 

In HELL IN A CELL news, Cesaro's European Uppercut to a diving Justin Gabriel = BO$$.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah Cesaro averages approximately 1.64823 OH FUCK moments per match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Looking forward to Cesaro/Orton tonight.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Me too, especially considering the outcome. Loving how much they're protecting Cesaro.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Smackdown 09/02/2006*

Chris Benoit vs JBL vs Matt Hardy vs Orlando Jordan - ★★¾
- Enjoyable four way with a lot of divided action involving all four. Liked the throwback to the Cabinet days with Bradshaw and OJ teaming up briefly and then breaking up the pin. Benoit makes Hardy tap out and advances to No Way Out for the US Title match with Booker T. Speaking of Booker, he's hilarious on commentary. An early glimpse of what he brought to the table in 2011 with his catchphrase overload.

MNM vs Londrick - ★★½
- Londrick are like the new Mexicools now they have been ditched to Velocity and Juventud has been released. Lots of awesome athletic spots and both tag teams are legitimate. I hate the stupid "THE REF DIDN'T SEE A TAG" spot but I guess it played up to making Londrick not look too weak after taking that hilarious squash from the Gymini (who are suddenly not here) the month before.

Gregory Helms vs Nunzio - ★★
- A short and decent cruiserweight match. Nothing else to say.

Undertaker vs Mark Henry - ★★¾
- Fitting that I watch this shortly after the brief discussion about the matches between these two. Enjoyed the action for the 10 or so minutes it lasted and Mizark is booked pretty well as the monster that even a big man like Undertaker can fall short to. Taker makes a nice comeback in the end before MNM run-in to cause the DQ followed by Kurt Angle's appearance at the end cleaning house.



> WHO CAN ROOT FOR HIM NOW ?!?!?!?!?!


I like this John, tbh. Something about this kind of douchebag attitude that I love where the guy will make his opponent look like a joke and laugh off all the frustration in spite of the negative reaction he'll receive. Much better than humble, goody two shoes Cena. If he's gonna be a face, I'd prefer him to be an asshole face instead of that "Hustle Loyalty Respect" garbage.

I've pretty much learned to accept that he wont turn heel and take him for what he is. So instead of complaining daily about wanting him to turn heel, I'll just laugh at how he riles up smarks by making their favorites look like geeks. Specially if it's someone I don't care for, like Ziggler.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What I'd like to know is if HHH/Lesnar II really goes down @ Mania, how the FUCK are we supposed to take Hunter seriously without hair?!?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> What I'd like to know is if HHH/Lesnar II really goes down @ Mania, how the FUCK are we supposed to take Hunter seriously without hair?!?


Hair extensions 4TW!!

Although I don't really want the rematch tbh.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, so I'm finally gonna watch Flair/Steamboat Wrestlewar '89 and when I'm done I'm also going to finally give the Taker/Orton series a watch.

I just got to mention one thing. You gotta love the irony of wrestling. During the Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls Ross mentions that only in the NWA do you get 60 minutes of wrestling, and that's not including entrances folks!

My point is, despite trying to sell themselves as pro wrestling they were as much about sports-entertainment as the WWE. I mean, Flair's entrance alone was 60 minutes and for Christ's sake, Steamboat came out on a damn horse for Wrestlewar!


----------



## HerbUWF (Oct 21, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Felt like a bad Kurt Angle match.


No such thing as a bad Kurt Angle match. Honestly, one doesn't exist. You find me one Kurt Angle stinker and I'll show you ap ot of gold up my ass.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HerbUWF said:


> No such thing as a bad Kurt Angle match. Honestly, one doesn't exist. You find me one Kurt Angle stinker and I'll show you ap ot of gold up my ass.


:lmao

Have you ever watched his match against Jeff Hardy at No Surrender 2010? Possibly the worst match I've ever seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Must.... resist... being dragged into Kurt Angle is terrible conversation...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

HerbUWF said:


> No such thing as a bad Kurt Angle match. Honestly, one doesn't exist. You find me one Kurt Angle stinker and I'll show you ap ot of gold up my ass.


Cena - Unforgiven 05 & Survivor Series 05


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm hoping the guy is just trolling.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HerbUWF said:


> No such thing as a bad Kurt Angle match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Posted my thoughts on the 2001 RR event in my blog . Actually liked the ladder match MORE this time around. And I already fucking loved it lol.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Going back a few a pages on the Ziggler/Cena discussion. The mast two matches have really pissed me off. I must compliment both men though for delivering actual false finishes. During that cage match, I felt as if I were watching Michaels/Taker WM 25 all over again with the false finishes. They felt real. Up untila certain point that is. After a while, they were just 2 counts.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not sure who to put blame on here. Is it management that tells Ziggler to do 50 finishers and have Cena defeat him with one or is it Dolph just trying to steal the show by doing a bunch of crazy shit? A lot of people are just blaming booking but has anyone stopped to consider, "Hey maybe Dolph's the one who's fucking himself over by doing 50 finishers a match?"
> 
> Anyone gave that some thought?


Nah it's purely management trying to make Cena look like God. Dolph doesn't have the pull to be doing that. Remember last time he went against the script ?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Posted my thoughts on the 2001 RR event in my blog . Actually liked the ladder match MORE this time around. And I already fucking loved it lol.


Benoit v Jericho RR01 - *****


sharkboy22 said:


> Going back a few a pages on the Ziggler/Cena discussion. The mast two matches have really pissed me off. I must compliment both men though for delivering actual false finishes. During that cage match, I felt as if I were watching Michaels/Taker WM 25 all over again with the false finishes. They felt real. Up untila certain point that is. After a while, they were just 2 counts.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not sure who to put blame on here. Is it management that tells Ziggler to do 50 finishers and have Cena defeat him with one or is it Dolph just trying to steal the show by doing a bunch of crazy shit? A lot of people are just blaming booking but has anyone stopped to consider, "Hey maybe Dolph's the one who's fucking himself over by doing 50 finishers a match?"
> 
> Anyone gave that some thought?


I did give it a thought actually, and through my rage I realised maybe it wasn't the best idea for Ziggler to snap for the cover like he did all the time in that match. If he'd have stalled to slowly drag himself over Cena's unmoving body, it would have looked more like a lucky kickout on Cena's part than "wow, that did not have any effect on him whatsoever"


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Kurt Angle sucks because he had crap matches with John Cena :lmao


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Cliffy Byro said:


> Kurt Angle sucks because he had crap matches with John Cena :lmao


No, it's because his in ring psychology isn't great.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's hard to judge a situation like Cena/Ziggler cause quite frankly I don't how they do shit in the WWE and I don't think anyone on this forum works for the WWE either. 

I know for sure they call the matches on the fly (maybe one or two things are set up backstage) but I find it hard to believe that management would sit those two backstage and walk them through the match. My only guess is that things like Big E slamming the door and what not were things that were planned backstage but it's just weird ot picture the bookers saying "Hey, Dolph we want you to do a big DDT off the turnbuckle then a super kick and why not hit a zig zag? oh yeah and Cena, lay out the motherfucker with just one AA"

I don't know. I'd like to believe that Ziggler is freaking hit all these high spots for the flashiness of it without thinking just how detrimental it is to the final outcome. I mean the top rope DDT is something that screams "I'm trying to get myself over by doing something fucking huge!" You know that mindset a lot of up and comers have? They gotta do bigger and better things each week to get noticed. I get that feeling when I watch Ziggler sometimes. 

Again, I don't know cause I don't work for the damn company. Like most people, I'm just speculating. But I just find it really, really hard to believe creative sits and tell the guys "Hey Ziggles, go fuck yourself"


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cliffy Byro said:


> Kurt Angle sucks because he had crap matches with John Cena :lmao


I was giving an example of a bad match...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

This is the same company that has booked Ziggler to lose two weeks in a row to the same guy (that accomplishes alot!) and has had the same guy DOMINATE for 8 years now. It's entirely possible they are responsible for the past two weeks.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> No, it's because his in ring psychology isn't great.


Ring psychology doesn't exist!! All you mofos talking about ring psychology like this is the 60s when everyone was dumb ebuff 2 think dat wrestlin wuz real!!! We all know it is fake!!! How can we believe something to be real if its fake?

Ring psychology doesn't exist anymore bcuz ppl knowdat wrestlin is fake now unlike the 50s and 60s wen every1 thought it was real cuz they were dumbfucks. I prefer workrate to "story telling" bcuz control segments r boring whereas the moves and teh spots r cool to look at. 

Wrestling is a fake _sport_ not a _fake_ sport. Workrate FTW! Moveset FTW!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

People still not getting the idea of subjectivity bemuses me. 

Angle is bad more times than he's good for me because his selling is shoddy, his matches lack a clear story, structure or sense of pacing, very little in the way of build occurs in his matches and his matches post 2003 (with a few exceptions) generally feel comprised of lazy transitions, nearfalls and kickouts which aren't built to or sold extensively and essentially all style with little substance. That being said, I don't begrudge anyone for getting caught up in the pace and style of his matches and totally see why what irritates me is what draws others in. I mean christ I adore Finlay, Jim Duggan, Jerry Lawler, Bill Dundee & Dick Murdoch but I would understand if people didn't get sucked into their best matches because the pace generally is more refined and the action is basic with more thought going into storytelling, character work and pacing. I would disagree if people thought some of their best matches weren't good, but as long as the person explained their reason I could at least understand what specifically bothered them. People who laugh off an opinion irritate me.

*Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler, Main Event (1/9/13)*

Not massively high on it but I thought it was a step in the right direction and one of the examples of where Ziggler's counter heavy style can shine if there's enough build and general selling in between the nearfalls to hold the match together. Much better way for Ziggler to build genuine nearfalls and test Sheamus whilst making the idea of the wrestler landing the decisive blow being the victor without minimising his signature offence. Thought the middle was a marked improvement and whilst it was still lacking that truly gripping control segment, the mini theme of Ziggler constantly thwarting Sheamus from making a comeback was a cool little narrative before his flurry after Ziggler got too cocky. A couple of transitions in the finishing stretch seemed a little mistimed, but that's easily forgiveable and the only time I thought there was a little suspect selling was Ziggler's running leap into the top rope DDT. Overall a good outing with the long term selling from both men being beneficial in aiding the down time between the counter heavy sequences and ensured this was a better done 'counter orientated' match with both men having to fight to regain control, rather than numerous transitions which felt aimless.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Ever Wolf said:


> Cena - Unforgiven 05
> 
> Cena - Survivor Series 05


I think i'm starting to see a pattern.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Salt Upon Wounds said:


> I think i'm starting to see a pattern.


I'm gonna stop you in your tracks right there.

Angle vs Cena No Mercy 2003 is an underrated gem. It's a great match yet I never actually see it get any sort of praise around here. A great match build around the fact that Cena cannot outwrestle Angle and Angle cannot outbrawl Cena.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Salt Upon Wounds said:


> I think i'm starting to see a pattern.


What're you talking about? John Cener is the bestest! He beats everybody! And...and...he's so strong! :lmao


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Angle/Mysterio from Japan. Now, that was a helluva match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *People still not getting the idea of subjectivity bemuses me. *
> 
> Angle is bad more times than he's good for me because his selling is shoddy, his matches lack a clear story, structure or sense of pacing, very little in the way of build occurs in his matches and his matches post 2003 (with a few exceptions) generally feel comprised of lazy transitions, nearfalls and kickouts which aren't built to or sold extensively and essentially all style with little substance. That being said, I don't begrudge anyone for getting caught up in the pace and style of his matches and totally see why what irritates me is what draws others in. I mean christ I adore Finlay, Jim Duggan, Jerry Lawler, Bill Dundee & Dick Murdoch but I would understand if people didn't get sucked into their best matches because the pace generally is more refined and the action is basic with more thought going into storytelling, character work and pacing. *I would disagree if people thought some of their best matches weren't good, but as long as the person explained their reason I could at least understand what specifically bothered them. People who laugh off an opinion irritate me.*
> 
> ...


Completely agree with this.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't think the day has come yet where we've not seen eye to eye Brye


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

This is the only part of the WWE section I bother with, we need someone on Mong Patrol so this thread doesn't get filled with morons.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Angle discussions have never ended well really, seems to always attract people who disagree but don't really offer an explanation as to why and just laugh any contrary arguments off. Should probably be culled like any reference to HHH/Taker KOTR 2002. God what a shite match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh don't worry, I'm still waiting on that day lol. 

Hey, I respect opinions as much as others but dammit there's a limit. I have no problem who like that high spotty style of wrestling but please, please, please don't ever try to tell me that a babyface comeback insults your intelligence while guys taking turns dropping each other on their heads 50 times doesn't. Just don't. You lose all credibility.

Anyway, just finished with Orton/Taker WM 21. Pretty fun match. I have it somewhere it the ***3/4-**** range.

Up next is Summerslam 2005 right?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll admit I'm entertained by a lot of Angle matches, regardless of the lack of structure/storytelling/selling. He's one of the exceptions.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I liked Angle/Mysterio from SS '02. That was a 90mph match , that was incredibly entertaining. Then again, it made sense. One, it was the opener, and two, it went like 10 minutes. Those two did a tremendous job of seeing the tone for the night. 

Fast paced, spot fests have their place on the card. But the World Title match is not that place.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Angle discussions have never ended well really, seems to always attract people who disagree but don't really offer an explanation as to why and just laugh any contrary arguments off. Should probably be culled like any reference to *HHH/Taker KOTR 2002*. God what a shite match.


That match never happened. Doesn't exist. Shouldn't be referenced because its not real. Go away now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I've said it before, a lot of my annoyance with Angle stems from his ability to actually work very good matches when he wants to. Seeing him work matches with very little redeeming qualities beside some stand out spots when he's delivered some very good performances and matches in his career is irritating.

@ Cal, agree. Should be discussed about as often as that match where Diesel won the title in quick fashion. Never to be mentioned again!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Never seen Taker/HHH from KOTR but now I'm intrigued...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I actually re-watched every RAW, SD and PPV back in 2010 and I can't recall that Taker/Trips match all. Well, I'd like to think that I (apparently) did a good job of erasing its existence from my mind.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Never seen Taker/HHH from KOTR but now I'm intrigued...


Of course you've never seen it. Nobody has. It didn't happen.

STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

Watching Angle/Benoit RR 03 atm. Had to quit watching the event last night after HHH/Steiner .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Only people looking to punish themselves for a horrible misdeed in the past should actively check that match out, knowing full well what awaits them.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Curious how you guys (Cal & WOOLCOCK) rate that match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Andy will become a devout straight edge man and vivalabrave will make a post on this forum before that match gets any recognition as being anything above awful.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I meant Benoit/Angle RR03.

I GET IT, TRIPLE H HAD A BAD MATCH QUIT RUBBING IT IN.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Watching Angle/Benoit RR 03 atm. Had to quit watching the event last night after HHH/Steiner .


Angle vs Benoit at Royal Rumble 2003 was quite possibly the greatest match that I ever seen. The ovation Benoit got after the match was wonderful. Probably Angle's best match as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I currently have Angle/Benoit at ****1/4. Fuck knows what it'll be when I'm done watching it now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh shit :lmao .

Erm, its good but I'm not in the 'contender for best match in company history' camp. Benoit's desperation and story carries a lot of emotional investment, but truth be told last time I saw it I was just legit bored and didn't find much at all great about it. Nothing offensively bad, but nothing grand. 

Wrote about it elsewhere months back:



> Finally rewatced this, a clear nomination for anyone who enjoys this style but I'm past the point where I can appreciate this as a top 100 match. I actually may have even liked it slightly less than on last watch, really never felt like there was any control or structure to either man being in control, Benoit's transition into a brief FIP really felt like Angle had just figured 'enough of that, now I'll dominate' and they entered into the dual Germans and finishing stretch much earlier than I remembered. One thing I adored in the Benoit/Regal match from Velocity was how they established a parity between both men but put over the respective submissions as the match ender, seeing Benoit have a good 3 crossfaces on Angle for a good portion of time before being countered was really disheartening, countering the move before it can be fully locked on would work so much better in continuing the theme of parity whilst still teasing the fans as to how one man would finally lock on their move without it being countered. Pleasantly there was only 1 spot of Angle rope running and it came before that gorgeous floatover German and followup headbutt, but this was such a disappointment compared to Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal and I wasn't even particularly blown away by the exchanges here. Pretty sure Benoit and Angle have delivered better hold for hold matches on TV than they did here, seemed far more of a bomb throwing match than say Wrestlemania 17 which I recall being much more mat contested.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I need to give Angle/Benoit a second watch but I wasn't high on it at all the first time I saw it. And then, I dind't even know the match had so much hype behind it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Oh shit :lmao .
> 
> Erm, its good but I'm not in the 'contender for best match in company history' camp. Benoit's desperation and story carries a lot of emotional investment, but truth be told last time I saw it I was just legit bored and didn't find much at all great about it. Nothing offensively bad, but nothing grand.
> 
> Wrote about it elsewhere months back:


Yeah, I kinda over-exaggerated by calling it the greatest match I ever saw. But damn did that match leave me wanting more. Rarely do I feel that way regarding matches.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

hated angle/benoit when i first saw it. could be the only person who did.

sure it looks nice, but i didnt give a shit. boring. dull. and it was more like a ballet than a fight


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There's a lot of people calling Benoit/Angle a top WWE match, it's not an uncommon thing at all. Shit, how many people in this thread alone think it's top ten? Sure to be five people, maybe? Probably. I wouldn't have it top 100+, but I've always thought it was very good. Another one of those 'haven't watched in years' matches, though. I'd be surprised if I didn't like it on my next watch of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well my rating has most definitely changed for Angle/Benoit. Up or down? You'll find out when I post it on my blog in 2 days time . 2001 RR went on today, 2002 tomorrow, 2003 the day after .

Using my new and improved CAL SCALE, the 2003 RR event has a total of 3.5 points. Just got the RR match to go.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I WANT TO KNOW THE FUCKING RATING NOW, CAL.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, now I REALLY gotta watch Taker/Trips from KOTR. Sounds like a classic waiting to be seen. It's a habit for me to read about how bad a certain match is here and then go on and watch it despite being advised not to. It wasn't that bad of an experience with Taker/Boss Man and Khali/Batista (Punjabi Prison), so I'll surely find some humor in Taker/HHH unless it's going to be the boooooooooooring type like Batista/JBL GAB 05 or HHH/HBK HIAC.

And Benoit/Angle RR03 is definitely a ★★★★★ match for me. Top 5 for sure if not #1.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I actually kinda' enjoyed Batista/Khali Punjabi Prison...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I actually kinda' enjoyed Batista/Khali Punjabi Prison...


It was a good match for Khali standards. Short and to the point. They utilized the "prison" well enough and the ending was all kinds of awesome. (Batista's jump... :lmao) ★★½ for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Benoit/Angle RR03- *****, best match ever imo (well... in WWE anyway...).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Jim Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer, Dog Collar Chain Match, Mid South (12/27/85)*

Manly, manly match albeit a step down from their absolutely stellar 11/11/85 encounter I watched yesterday. Duggan once again continues to prove he deserves to be remembered for being more than a comedy wrestler by putting in a great maniacal babyface performance and throwing some great punches which Sawyer bumped for tremendously. Like Valentine/Piper both men lay in some tough shots with the chain and Sawyer utilises it especially well to survive Duggan's onslaught, such as crotching Duggan with the chain as well as wrapping it around his eyes to try and withstand the beating. The brawling wasn't as terrific as the last match but there was still a lot to appreciate about their chemistry here, namely Duggan who really was such a great fired up babyface and his comeback punch combo was a thing of Jerry Lawler esque beauty. Really dug the finish as well with Sawyer being beaten mercilessly and looking like a tough resilient SOB for surviving so long albeit appearing to only be delaying the inevitable, only for him to grab a chair and smash it over Duggan's head and score the victory he never looked like getting. Mid South baby.


*Bill Dundee vs Sweet Brown Sugar, Scaffold Match, Memphis (6/21/82)*










Jesus christ, not just the greatest scaffold match of all time but a legit wonderful match in its own right. Proof of the undeniable talent of Bill Dundee and Koko Ware to make a scaffold match, arguably one of the most limited gimmick matches wonderfully enthralling and filled with drama and long term build and deliver a great match. Lance Russell brings up Dundee's construction and circus background as being a factor in that he doesn't fear heights and Dundee more than proves it with some horrifying feats of athleticism such as using the the scaffold as a monkey bar at one point to escape Koko as well as numerous teases of a fall where he catches himself on the ladder at an awkward angle. They do basic matwork at the beginning, build to and execute each fall (first person to be knocked off the scaffold to the floor twice loses) majestically and really beat the piss out of each other on such a narrow and dangerous looking structure. Spot where Koko rolls Dundee off the scaffold, hooking his legs at the last second to stay on and Dundee springing onto the nearby ladder at a dangerous pace was the spot of the match and made for a scary visual as it looked for sure Dundee was a goner. Teasing and deliverance of the final fall is worked brilliantly and leads to a legit broken wrist for the victim according to reports. Just an insane, smart and wonderfully orchestrated match which somehow breaks down the limitations of the scaffold and utilises the structure to heighten the drama and emotion and make for an enthralling match. One of the finest spectacles I've ever watched.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Koko Fucking Ware.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Koko Fucking Ware.


See he did earn that HOF induction :side:

Glad you posted the videos Woolcock. I'll have to check out this and more Memphis. Your review is epic.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I need to give this type of wrestling a chance. I need to know more about the characters to get a better understanding of what makes these matches so great.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Clique *I'll link you to Duggan/Sawyer x2 if you wish. The 11/11/85 match is amazing and immediately struck me as being similar to Lawler/Flair in terms of the post match angle almost being as good as the actual match, although I find the bell to bell here better than in Lawler/Flair.

11/11/85: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...yer-11-11-85_sport?search_algo=2#.UPdHqWfz6_s

12/27/85: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kNyvCWMHGs

Also, Koko fucking Ware. I get in terms of longevity and impact people look at his induction as something of a joke, but the man's talent can't be stated enough. The Flair title match, this scaffold match, the Mantell/King Cobra vs Eaton/Sugar 7/19/82 tag which is amazing and hardly anyone talks about. KOKO.


@ TLK: you'd only need to know about Dundee's backstory for the Lawler matches mainly, though they're great enough in their own right so its not like not knowing every instance of the feud is mandatory. Basically in this match, Dundee is the face and touted as being the king of the scaffold match due to his construction work in Australia as a youth and assisting in the setup of trapieze work for the circus. He's billed as being comfortable around heights whereas Koko is scared shitless. The rest is just simple build, pacing and dramatic athleticism from Dundee that leaves you scared at the possible falls he could take. So many dangerous spots from both men that could have ended in tragedy if one slipped at the wrong time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I couldn't care less about the fact he did nothing in WWF (AND THAT WASN'T HIS FAULT), the fact he's in the HOF is AWESOME! He's a great wrestler...like, at his best he's just got everything down. Just everything. I hate it when people talk him down. #1 because they're completely wrong, and #2 because they're likely full of shit and haven't even bothered to watch anything from him. They're just 'Oh the bird guy - SHOULDN'T BE IN HALL OF FAME'. I mean he shouldn't be, but.....I like the fact he is.  He was a really good wrestler no matter what. I don't remember a match where Koko didn't look somewhat good. People should stop bagging him. Like, right fucking now. Or, if you're going to bag him, give more reasons then "he didn't get a title 'n' shouldn't be HOF 'n' shit". And FFS......watch him before saying anything. I'm not sure anybody who bags him would actually be reading this (I haven't heard any bagging of Koko in this thread specifically), but Koko Fucking Ware.

Doesn't help that pretty much 100% of his best matches/performances happened outside WWF. I've found some WWF Koko I've REALLY liked, but not a true hidden diamond that I hope exists.

KOKO FUCKING WARE


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh I love the fact he's in there, man was a good enough talent to deserve some recognition even if people won't associate his name placement with his great work prior to WWF/E. He was a great heel, astute bumper, great in the title match vs Flair and against heel Lawler in the studio match in Memphis. Had balls of steel to work the scaffold match and do some of the false stunts he did against Dundee.

KOKO FUCKING WARE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok I'll comment on some stuff that was discussed today:



Redead said:


> hated angle/benoit when i first saw it. could be the only person who did.
> 
> sure it looks nice, but i didnt give a shit. boring. dull. and it was more like a ballet than a fight


I hated it too the first few times I watched it. You're not alone there.

Angle vs Benoit from Rumble was OMG 5 STARS last time I watched. Haven't watched it in honestly like 2 years tho. Almost went through Royal Rumble 2003 today. So I'll eventually relive it again and see if it holds up. Have a feeling it won't now that I tend to notice all the flaws about Angle.

Angle vs Mysterio from Summerslam 2002 is probably the GOAT Angle match for me though. Mysterio's instant credibility of consistency + Angle working 88 miles per hour was probably the best combo possible. Which is what led it to being amazing for me.

:lmao @ Undertaker vs Triple H from KOTR '02. It makes WrestleMania 27 look amazing by comparison. _(that match is pretty meh too btw)_

ummmmmmmmmm I think that's it. Jim Duggan is awesome. Although my territory was the MAJOR one aka CROCKETTS. That's the one I tend to pimp often enough. Said it 100x that I should always pursue more Mid-South any chance I can, yada yada yada.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Jeff Hardy (c) vs. CM Punk: TLC Match for the World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2009 ****1/2*

The penultimate match from their 2009 feud and what an exciting match this was! I thought that they both demonstrated how personal the feud had become and how they showed their hatred with one another really well. From CM Punk trying to wrap a chair around Hardy's neck like a noose and Hardy going mad near the end, hitting Punk with multiple chair shots showed how much they hated each other and made me invested in the match. There were some cool spots like Punk slamming Hardy's back onto the edge of the chair, the superplex onto the ladder, and Hardy's Swanton Bomb from the ladder onto Punk, crushing the announcer's table. Hardy receives medical attention as a result, Punk tries to crawl his way into climbing the ladder, Jeff realizes this, shoves the medical staff away, and goes for one last brigade to stop Punk, but ultimately failed to win. Just a great and exciting match all around.

I also feel that Jeff Hardy is underrated when it comes to being a babyface worker. He's a great seller, gets the crowd involved, and plays the "babyface in peril" really well. Thoughts?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

why was koko b ware called sweet brown sugar when hes clearly black as hell

yes, i went there :suarez1


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Embrace the Koko love Redead.



StraightEdgeJesus said:


> *Jeff Hardy (c) vs. CM Punk: TLC Match for the World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2009 ****1/2*
> 
> I also feel that Jeff Hardy is underrated when it comes to being a babyface worker. He's a great seller, gets the crowd involved, and plays the "babyface in peril" really well. Thoughts?


Can't remember much about the TLC encounter, but I know I considered their Cage match and feud ender to be the best match of the series by a fair margin.

As for Hardy. Ehh I don't really like him. Sure he's fun to bump maniacally and nearly cripple himself on bumps, but I don't think he strings together his selling and builds his matches around it anywhere nearly as much as Matt does if we're comparing the Hardy brothers. Matt's the better seller, will build his matches and comeback around it and will take the time to sell it throughout his comeback and in really smart and unique ways.

Its strange. Jeff has the Morton/Steamboat ability to pull a crowd into his beating in a way Matt couldn't match, but Matt is far closer to Morton/Steamboat in terms of actually selling and building smart and creative comebacks wherever as Jeff's feel generally more aimless and lackluster.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

jeff had some good matches vs umaga and triple H though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Hardy Steel Cage is :mark:

in my top 5 best from 2009. I might have to rethink my rankings though as VIVA pimped one of the Punk vs Morrison matches as being the best of the year. Oh shoot. This reminds me I need to give the Taker/Henry match from 2006 a watch tonight too. I feel like crap though. Eh, if anything that means I should just cram wrestling. _(I say this as I am watching WrestleMania 25 too_ 8*D)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Redead said:


> jeff had some good matches vs umaga and triple H though


Not denying that. But as a general rule of thumb I just don't think the guy is very good at extending his selling into his comeback and building hope spots around it. He definitely had that emotional connection that Matt could never dream to match, but I always find myself thinking Matt is probably one of the more overlooked great sellers of this decade as opposed to Jeff. Like watch the 6/22/07 Matt vs Finlay match from Smackdown and find me a Jeff match where he sells anywhere near as good as Matt, whilst also building the match expertly around the injury and incorporating it into his comebacks.

Jeff's a really fun and nutty bumper who can be utilised in the right settings, but people like Matt, Christian and Masters would be comfortably closer to what I'd call an all round great seller as opposed to Jeff.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

You know who I find to be an awful seller? The Rock

But thats probably because he only worked wwe attitude era style main events


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only good sell by Rock was the overselling of the Stunner b/c it was outlandish.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

He had that Hogan vibe to his work where his charisma shone through in his matches and pulled the viewer in, even if as in a purely technical sense he wasn't close to being a great seller. I suppose his ability to connect with the crowd can't be overlooked though. He was an excellent FIP for different reasons than someone like Eddie, Benoit, Christian or Matt Hardy.

That being said the Attitude Era style wasn't exactly built on selling. The brawls and fast paced nature basically replaced the prior style of slow build title matches that you saw from guys like Bret, Owen and Mankind in the Mind Games title defence.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Matt Hardy's selling in the Hardy/Edge feud owned. Watched a couple of those matches the other day and they're really good.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

True Brye. His selling at Summerslam as Edge is beating the piss out of him in the ropes was majestic. Helped that Edge pulled no punches either and delivered some pretty unexpectedly great strikes of his own, but Matt's selling really got over the damage. Reminded me of Regal's selling in Regal/Ambrose II from this year with both crumpled in the ropes, barely able to register a response to the referee.

Edge/Hardy Summerslam rules as well btw, pretty sure I've said it before. Might be one of the best sub 10 minute matches the company has ever done. I get why people hate it in terms of making Matt look weak, but I find it a great way to build to Unforgiven as Matt's redemption whilst putting over the threat that Edge really wants to brutalise Matt and won't be merciful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Matt Hardy's selling in the Hardy/Edge feud owned. Watched a couple of those matches the other day and they're really good.




Another steel cage match that makes me :mark:

Oh hey, Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels time. No big deal. :hmm:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Is there a better WWE cage match than Matt Hardy v Edge? Maybe HHH/Flair. Can't think of anything else I've seen that would rival it. Jeff Hardy v Punk rounds out my top 3 but I might be forgetting something.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlund/Slaughter


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If we're talking all time and not just in this decade, then Backlund/Slaughter from 1981 would still probably be my pick for best Cage match in company history. If we're just focusing on 2000-2012 though, that seems like a pretty choice top 3 with very little else sticking out. Eddie/JBL I think gets some praise, but not top 3 praise. Eddie/Rey was disappointing compared to the heights of their prior work. Can't think of much else, Flair/Orton, Edge/Jericho, Jericho/Christian. None are really standing out as being close to the top 3 *Saint Dick* mentioned.

Edit: fuckin' Ninja Cal :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, Hardy vs Edge & Punker vs Hardy top HHH vs Flair for me. Off the top of my head, yeah, I'd slate those as the 3 best. If not my 3 favorite easily.

I might have to travel WAY back in the older years to find a cage match that I could possibly think is better. I know I loved Owen vs Bret. Not everyone is keen on it though. I'm probably to blah atm to really give it my full attention and due diligence.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Never seen Backlund/Slaughter and I don't remember liking Bret/Owen very much.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best cage from WWE goes to Edge/Matt Hardy fairly easily for me, although Flair/HHH was awesome as well. Amazing that they happened within a few weeks of each other.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I agree with whoever said Jeff Hardy is underrated. Did somebody say that? Well, that's what I think anyway. Thing is, when Hardy is bad, he is really, really fucking bad. His match w/ Angle in 2010 was all time shit level and even if he was the better man in it, the match was all time shit level and he didn't even come near "good" in it. That isn't the only awful Hardy match, but his run from 06-09 is enjoyable and he was a very good wrestler for a lot of it. I hate the criticism that Hardy is a spot monkey, because that's really not true. Or....not ALWAYS true.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wow I don't remember anything about Edge/Matt. I'll add that to the list. Love HHH/Flair as I was there for it live.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE No Way Out 2003​*
1) Chris Jericho vs Jeff Hardy ~ ***


2) *World Tag Team Championship*
William Regal & Lance Storm(c) vs Kane & Rob Van Dam ~ ***


3) *WWE Cruiserweight Championship*
Billy Kidman(c) vs Matt Hardy ~ ***


4) The Undertaker vs Big Show ~ ***3/4


5) *Handicap Match*
Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle, Shelton Benjamin, & Charlie Haas ~ ***


6) *World Heavyweight Championship*
Triple H(c) vs Scott Steiner ~ DUD


7) Steve Austin vs Eric Bischoff ~ N/R


8) Hulk Hogan vs The Rock ~ DUD​

And this was such a well rounded show until HHH/Steiner & Rock/Hogan showed up. Undertaker vs Big Show is a must. GREAT.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH/Flair is the greatest WWF/WWE cage match of all time. Runners up would be ;

- Backlund/Slaughter
- Hardy/Edge
- Punk/Hardy
- Bryan/Henry

That's my top five right there. It's crazy because for perhaps the most used gimmick match ever, IMO there hasn't been a single cage match over ***** 1/4* , whereas there has been only 26 HIAC matches and there's been like five I'd put at _**** 1/2+_. It's weird as fuck.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jeff had some good matches but I can't think of any great matches where he's the better worker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jeff's work was the driving force as to why I loved his match vs Triple H from No Mercy 2008.

If it would have been anyone else, I don't think it would have been as special as it turned out to be. Trips was great in his role, but Jeff's work in that match was on point in every aspect that it needed to be.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Definitely thought Hunter was the better guy in the HHH/Hardy matches. Not saying Jeff got carried or anything but Trips controlled the pacing and structure of the matches brilliantly as the experienced champion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I love that series.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I love that series.


Me too. No Mercy '08 gets the praise it deserves but the Cyber Sunday rematch and Armageddon '07 are often overlooked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll firmly disagree and be alone in it too. I know it was Hardy that made it for me b/c I loved it. When Triple H works vs an opponent I'm not feeling, the match is generally shit. The only major exception I can think of is vs Batista from Vengeance 2005. Which he was the driving force behind and gave Batista just about his best non-Undertaker match of his entire career. Everything else I think of that's great from him it was a lot on his opponent that made it for me. I think the only times it was give or take from both for me was his work in 2000 that wasn't against Foley. Especially against Rock. Those fed off each other brilliantly. Have to relive the match vs Benoit again.

Far and away I can count too many blah Triple H matches where he's supposedly meant to be the driving force behind it. Everything vs Randy Orton comes to mind. Only fits since I'm watching the garbage WrestleMania 25 main event atm.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Me too. No Mercy '08 gets the praise it deserves but the Cyber Sunday rematch and Armageddon '07 are often overlooked.


Is Armageddon the triple threat w/Edge? That match is fun as hell.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Every Trips-Jeff match is awesome, and that includes the triple threat 

I understand what you mean Cody..... Trips as a driving force in a match can be somewhat tedious unless it's a gimmick match, he's usually awesome in 9 out of 10 of those (there are exceptions ; see BASH 09).

Or maybe it's just the fact that it's TRIPS-ORTON and that they have some very, very bad chemistry most of the time :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is Armageddon the triple threat w/Edge? That match is fun as hell.


Nah, it's just HHH/Hardy. For number one contendership if I remember correctly. Trips is great as the overconfident veteran. Jeff wins with a jackknife pin counter to the Pedigree.

I wish Jeff had won the title from Hunter in one final singles match in '08 instead of the triple threat with Edge.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I remember the jackknife pin counter victory. What was the finish to Cyber Sunday? Maybe I'm getting the matches confused. I know Hunter countered the Swanton into a pin in one of them.

Also, Cesaro's throw + Swiss Death to Orton on Main Event was impressive.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I remember the jackknife pin counter victory. What was the finish to Cyber Sunday? Maybe I'm getting the matches confused. I know Hunter countered the Swanton into a pin in one of them.
> 
> Also, Cesaro's throw + Swiss Death to Orton on Main Event was impressive.


Swanton into a pin was No Mercy. Cyber Sunday was an awesome Pedigree where HHH pretty much dragged Jeff off the top rope and hit it in one motion.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Was the Orton/Cesaro match from Main Event any good? Worth a watch?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Every Trips-Jeff match is awesome, and that includes the triple threat
> 
> I understand what you mean Cody..... Trips as a driving force in a match can be somewhat tedious unless it's a gimmick match, he's usually awesome in 9 out of 10 of those (there are exceptions ; see BASH 09).
> 
> Or maybe it's just the fact that it's TRIPS-ORTON and that they have some very, very bad chemistry most of the time :lol


Yeah, he tends to bring out much more with a gimmick attached. Like for example you make Triple H vs Orton a last man standing and BOOM. It's magically good. Great actually in regards to the No Mercy 2007 bout. I'm not completely sold of his work as a driving force all the time. It's part of which why I can't claim myself to be much of a fan like you and other. (aka everyone else currently occupying the thread, haha)

He has his moments and matches though. Regardless if he's the aspect for me that make them good, I know what he's capable of at the end of the day. More often than not it takes two to tango. Wouldn't say he's a bad worker or anything. Just not particularly great imho.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Swanton into a pin was No Mercy. Cyber Sunday was an awesome Pedigree where HHH pretty much dragged Jeff off the top rope and hit it in one motion.


That's right, fuck I want to watch that now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> That's right, fuck I want to watch that now.


Drive up to my place. I own No Mercy.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Yeah, he tends to bring out much more with a gimmick attached. Like for example you make Triple H vs Orton a last man standing and BOOM. It's magically good. Great actually in regards to the No Mercy 2007 bout. I'm not completely sold of his work as a driving force all the time. It's part of which why I can't claim myself to be much of a fan like you and other. (aka everyone else currently occupying the thread, haha)
> 
> He has his moments and matches though. Regardless if he's the aspect for me that make them good, I know what he's capable of at the end of the day. More often than not it takes two to tango. Wouldn't say he's a bad worker or anything. Just not particularly great imho.


I'm a huge fan of the guy but I'll never try to claim he's some sort of amazing worker. I think he's good and has been great at times in his career but he's had his fair share of shit too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think I have No Mercy somewhere too, but I'm down for a VIEWING PARTY WITH CODY.

I'm as big a Hunter mark as the next guy, but he has definitely had his disappointments. HHH/Kozlov?!? :/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm a huge fan of the guy but I'll never try to claim he's some sort of amazing worker. I think he's good and has been great at times in his career but he's had his fair share of shit too.


I hear ya. Certainly matches like vs Steiner come into play for his shit area. Then work like vs Jericho, Foley, & Big Show deserves it's praise.

I wanted to add in Big Show since I really really like their match from NYR 2006.

 IMO GREG

+ :lmao @ Trips/Koslov. Holy CRAP


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd make a claim of Trips's career as a whole being awesome. His body of work over the past well..... 18 years or so I'd put up there with Taker in terms of highs and lows. Whereas Taker was kind of well.... Shit for alot of 2000-2001 , Trips was shit for a nice part of 2002-2003. I think they're comparable in the sense that when they're on, they're both beasts in the ring. When it comes to the better body of work I'd put Taker ahead of Hunter by a nice margin, but in terms of an individual peak, there aren't too many North American wrestlers that can say they've had a better peak than TRIPS.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> I hear ya. Certainly matches like vs Steiner come into play for his shit area. Then work like vs Jericho, Foley, & Big Show deserves it's praise.
> 
> I wanted to add in Big Show since I really really like their match from NYR 2006.
> 
> ...


HHH/Show NYR '06 (Y)

They had a good match on Raw after that too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Love H's performance against Show at NYR. Don't recall the Raw match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Show match is the best non-gimmick Show singles match of his career 

Or second maybe..... I'm going to rewatch Show-Sheamus once I get there in this PPV AKA TONIGHT... This best of 2012 list NEEDS to be finished ASAP.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Time for the weekly Helmsley discussion?  There's a surprisingly fun HHH/Lance Storm match from SmackDown. Trip plays a good babyface in parts of 2002. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA-BTCvvETE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH/Show NYR '06 (Y)
> 
> They had a good match on Raw after that too.


They've had 5 matches following NYR too. I only recall about two. Oooh. Sounds like a new project for me.

For some reason I seem to start a LOT of Trips discussions. Don't know why.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Any time Ownage and I are in this thread at the same time there's a good chance Hunter discussion will take place.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On tap for me next seems to be TLC 2009. SHEAMUS~!

Plus I Trips locks up with BIG SHOW. How fitting. Maybe I'll pause to watch Taker vs Henry and the Game vs Storm match b/c they're Yeah1993 approved.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993.

Why did Show/H feud in 09? Drawing a blank.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Weekly Helmsley discussion :lol

On a non-Helmsley related note ........ Hell in a Cell hasn't been bad so far, worst match has probably been REY-CARA vs PTP ........ I fucking hate the team of Rey and Cara, Rey just needs to wrestle Triple H (  ) and call it a career. Fuck putting over that piece of shit Sin Cara, even RYBACK is better than him


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah1993.
> 
> Why did Show/H feud in 09? Drawing a blank.


DX vs JERISHOW

Loved Jerishow as a team.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> That Show match is the best non-gimmick Show singles match of his career
> 
> Or second maybe..... I'm going to rewatch Show-Sheamus once I get there in this PPV AKA TONIGHT... This best of 2012 list NEEDS to be finished ASAP.


I'd put Show/Sheamus and Show/Taker over NYR '06 as better non-gimmick Big Show singles matches and there's probably others too but now that I think about it Show's matches with Hunter have to be some of his best as a babyface. Can't think of too many good Big Show matches where he plays the face.



The Lady Killer said:


> Any time Ownage and I are in this thread at the same time there's a good chance Hunter discussion will take place.


THE GAME 

Did you watch Orton/Cesaro online? If so link me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's right :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Show's best single's match hands down is his Stretcher match against Lesnar for sure. I'm at Sheamus-Show now so we'll see where this brings us.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah1993.
> 
> Why did Show/H feud in 09? Drawing a blank.


DX vs JeriShow series. It ruled.



KingOfKings said:


> Weekly Helmsley discussion :lol
> 
> On a non-Helmsley related note ........ Hell in a Cell hasn't been bad so far, worst match has probably been REY-CARA vs PTP ........ I fucking hate the team of Rey and Cara, Rey just needs to wrestle Triple H (  ) and call it a career. Fuck putting over that piece of shit Sin Cara, even RYBACK is better than him


It wasn't the world's worst event. Only it had a lot that made you not care except for the two Championship matches and some Cesaro SWAG.



Brye said:


> DX vs JERISHOW
> 
> Loved Jerishow as a team.


Same here. :mark:



Saint Dick said:


> I'd put Show/Sheamus and Show/Taker over NYR '06 as better non-gimmick Big Show singles matches and there's probably others too but now that I think about it Show's matches with Hunter have to be some of his best as a babyface. Can't think of too many good Big Show matches where he plays the face.


Seems like every Undertaker vs Big Show match is generally AWESOME. No Mercy 2008 for example or the NWO '03 match I briefly pimped a page or two back. :mark:

This is now an Undertaker discussion...:hayley3


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> I think about it Show's matches with Hunter have to be some of his best as a babyface. Can't think of too many good Big Show matches where he plays the face.


If we can include gimmick/multi-man matches then I would give a shout out to Show's WrestleMania 24 match with Mayweather while it wasn't a great wrestling match it was very entertaining celebrity/special attraction match. Big Show vs. The World at One Night Stand '08 and Smackdown 4-way with Ziggler/Rhodes/McIntyre. I also liked him the the SD MITB Ladder match at MITB '10. Then there's the Henry match at Vengeance '11. But yeah, the Hunter matches are good too.

Edit - YES, Undertaker discussion. He puts Show over as a monster and true dominate giant like no one imo.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Clique said:


> If we can include gimmick/multi-man matches then I would give a shout out to Show's WrestleMania 24 match with Mayweather while it wasn't a great wrestling match it was very entertaining celebrity/special attraction match. Big Show vs. The World at One Night Stand '08 and Smackdown 4-way with Ziggler/Rhodes/McIntyre. I also liked him the the SD MITB Ladder match at MITB '10. Then there's the Henry match at Vengeance '11. But yeah, the Hunter matches are up there with those performances.


Show was a heel against Mayweather though wasn't he? 

I remember liking one of his matches against Henry. Might be that one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Clique said:


> If we can include gimmick/multi-man matches then I would give a shout out to Show's WrestleMania 24 match with Mayweather while it wasn't a great wrestling match it was very entertaining celebrity/special attraction match. Big Show vs. The World at One Night Stand '08 and Smackdown 4-way with Ziggler/Rhodes/McIntyre. I also liked him the the SD MITB Ladder match at MITB '10. Then there's the *Henry match at Vengeance '11*. But yeah, the Hunter matches are up there with those performances.



   That's my speed right there.

In regards to Show-Taker having great chemistry, I was pimping Taker-Show from No Way Out 2003 before I ever got on this forum. Taker uses all of these MMA style holds and it's really fucking awesome. BIG SHOW HITS HARD. OHHH he's on his way to the ring against Sheamus now and he looks BADASS. SO EXCITED.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oooo, vs Henry @ Vengeance & the first Smackdown of 2010 4 way were perfect matches that capture how Show can work as a face. 

Watched Trips vs Storm from the 2002 Smackdown. Lots of FUN indeed. Storm would have won too if not for Game's use of the official. That cerebral assassin doing what he needs to do to win. Good stuff.

NWO '03 Taker vs Show is just so radical. Such a bossy affair. Right up my alley. Knew it was gonna steal the show. And it did.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> Show was a heel against Mayweather though wasn't he?


At the beginning of the feud Show was heel but the fans hated Mayweather's personality & attitude so much they wanted Show to crush him. Show was most certainly a face by WrestleMania taking on the arrogant "Money" Mayweather and his entourage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Edit - YES, Undertaker discussion. He puts Show over as a monster and true dominate giant like no one imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As far as best non-gimmick Big Show match goes, it's a toss-up between Taker/Show No Mercy, and Sheamus/Show Hell in a Cell. 

I'd also put Show/Henry at Vengeance above Show/HHH NYR, and right now that's all I got. Interestingly enough, the three I put above Show/HHH were in October. Hmmm...

As for best Big Show match period, that's an easier choice for me as Taker/Big Show Cyber Sunday wins it easily. Badass fucking match. Have it at number 69 on my list. Lesnar/Show stretch match is an awesome one as well, but I wouldn't say it touches the LMS Taker/Show match.

As for Taker/Show's three best matches:

NWO 03- ***1/2
NM 08- ***3/4
CS 08- ****1/4

Taker and Show have some awesome chemistry.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


>


It's true. Win or lose, when Big Show faced Taker at NWO 03, No Mercy 08, or the LMS match at Cyber Sunday 08 that was some of his most dominating moments in the ring I've ever seen from him. Undertaker probably because of who he is (THE UNDERTAKER) added with his masterful selling and fighting from the bottom to slay the giant sometimes unsuccessfully was an amazing scene to behold.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Clique said:


> At the beginning of the feud Show was heel but the fans hated Mayweather's personality & attitude so much they wanted Show to crush him. Show was most certainly a face by WrestleMania taking on the arrogant "Money" Mayweather and his entourage.


Well then yeah that's up there. So entertaining.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> It's true though. Win or lose, when Big Show faced Taker at NWO 03, No Mercy 08, or the LMS match at Cyber Sunday 08 that was some of his most dominating moments in the ring I've ever seen from him. Undertaker probably because of who he is (THE UNDERTAKER) added with his masterful selling and fighting from the bottom to slay the giant sometimes unsuccessfully, I marvel at.


can't forget about Taker vs Show from April of 2009 either. Show knocked him out once again and Undertaker wasn't seen till Summerslam. Jump started Show's road to being a beast again. _(until Cena trumped him come Judgment Day & Extreme Rules)_


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I remember Show having a really good match with Cena on Smackdown (probably in '09?) and it made me want to see them go at it on PPV but then the PPV matches were pretty shitty.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of Undertaker's selling, his performances as the war-torn veteran over the last five years or so has been one of the few elements that continue to fascinate me in wrestling. That includes the Mania matches and the angles they sold in his feuds with Edge, Show, Kane, etc.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think we can all agree that if Taker had HHH/Edge's hairline, he'd be perfect.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I were to count how many Taker matches I have at ***** +* , it would be over 50 for sure. I probably have more TAKER matches rated four snowflakes or higher than I do for any other guy in the WWE's history. Shawn has a fucking TON of four star matches too, and since I'm a HUNTER MARK he'd have a nice amount of classics too compared to most people.

Taker definitely takes the cake though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker's up there for me too, but so are Shawn and Bret. Can't forget about The Nature Boy. Many, many great matches


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH, believe me... If I counted I'd probably have over 100 FLAIR matches over four stars, and I don't even think I'm exaggerating. I just think he's the GOAT by a large, LARGE margin and that nobody can touch the guy.

When it comes to Shawn-Bret-Taker I think Bret was better in the ring but Taker and Shawn have more four star matches due to their longevity in a PPV era where there's 12 or more PPVs a year. When Bret was in the bulk of his career he wasn't able to showcase his talent as much as the guys today, so alot of Bret's classic matches are locked away in the "vault"... Hopefully we'll see alot of them in his Dungeon collection, probably the most hyped I've been for a DVD EVER. I wanna be the first guy to review THAT one :lol


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I like your reviews so I am looking forward to you covering the new Bret DVD.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Shawn-Taker-Bret, there's a good deal of my adolescence/teenage years. All 3 of them are the shit.

Flair is the GOAT, though, IMO. 

But all of them are great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I remember Show having a really good match with Cena on Smackdown (probably in '09?) and it made me want to see them go at it on PPV but then the PPV matches were pretty shitty.


2/27/09. The BEST Cena vs Show match ever. Phenomenal. ****

I'll personally advise in giving the Cena vs Show PPV match from 2009 another chance. I never disliked the Submission match from Extreme Rules, but the Judgment Day match was very blah on a first watch. For reasons that I can't quite explain. I gave it another chance and I love it. Show's simplicity of flat out dominating Cena is pretty remarkable. It made the Cena comeback feel like it mattered as opposed to being the same boring cycle of a a face managing to find a way to way.

***1/2 for Judgment Day
**1/2 or so for Extreme Rules (nothing special I know, but it's solid.)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK, I was gonna rep you for that BOSS compliment but I gotta spread 

Just watched *Sheamus vs Big Show @ Hell in a Cell 2012* for my 2012 project and all I can say about it is DAMN........ What can I say about it that hasn't already been said ? Two big guys hitting each other hard with a slow build to some of the best near falls that the company has executed in a long time. Sheamus did great as the babyface in peril as he sold the fact that Show was a monster better than a ton of other guys ever could. Still, I believe this was Show's match 110 percent of the way, from his selling of Sheamus as a credible babyface threat, all the way down to his mannerisms, facial expressions, and body language.

REALLY reminiscent of the Lesnar-Show series, as Sheamus is pretty damn athletic for a big guy and is one of the few strong enough to throw Show around for some really fun sequences while at the same time conditioned and fast enough to go balls to the wall. One of the best matches of 2012 for sure, and a top 5-7 SHOW match ever if memory serves me correct Top 5-7 for both men actually.

******


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE WrestleMania 25​*
1) *Money in the Bank Ladder Match*
CM Punk vs Kane vs Christian vs Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry vs Shelton Benjamin vs MVP vs Kofi Kingston ~ ***1/2


2) 25 Divas Battle Royal ~ DUD


3) *Handicap Elimination Match*
Chris Jericho vs Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, & Jimmy Snuka ~ **1/2


4) *Extreme Rules Match*
Jeff Hardy vs Matt Hardy ~ **3/4


5) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*
John Bradshaw Layfield(c) vs Rey Mysterio ~ N/R


6) The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels ~ *****


7) *World Heavyweight Championship*
Edge(c) vs John Cena vs Big Show ~ ***1/4


8) *WWE Championship*
Triple H(c) vs Randy Orton ~ 1/2*​

A WM that gets a bad rap and I think it is due to how poor the main event it. Honestly, it's a fine enough show. Undertaker vs Michaels happens and that's all that matters now. Haha. Punk winning in a fun ladder match, Jericho & Steamboat ruling, underrated triple threat, & a solid extreme rules match round out the card. If only the main event didn't suck. Then this show would get some more favorable reviews.

Watching TLC 2009 atm. Christian vs Shelton ladder match is quite bad. I didn't think Christian had a bad match during 2009.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Why the fuck did they book Triple H vs Randy Orton, a match we've already seen a billion times on lesser PPVs and RAWs, in the main event of the TWENTY FIFTH FUCKING ANNIVERSARY OF WRESTLEMANIA ?!?!?!?! Atleast Cena-Orton and Trips-Edge would have atleast been something different at the time.... and BETTER.

WHY WASN'T Triple H-Orton a No DQ brawl ? They were shooting for the whole ANGRY CHAMPION that can lose the title via DQ angle that Punk-Jericho perfected, but it was such a fail and so miserable that it tarnishes the entire PPV.

Trips-Orton pisses me off so much that it's unreal


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why do they not brawl in the match? Why is the pace so slow and lacks intensity? Why did they start the bout off by nailing their finishers? Why didn't Orton win when that that was seemingly the way things were leading? Why did Triple H win in the fashion that he did? 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still say it's better than MIZ-CENA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I need to relive that crap too, but I'd say they're probably equal for me. Just BAD.

All WrestleMania 27 has is 3 matches and that's it. Such a bad, bad PPV let alone a WrestleMania :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't understand why they didn't make HHH/Orton no holds barred or something like that and let them beat the shit out of each other. That's exactly what the feud called for and instead they did the opposite and added the 'if HHH gets DQ'd he loses the title' stip. Horrendous decision.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> **1/2 or so for Extreme Rules (nothing special I know, but it's solid.)


That's the one that goes for like 20 minutes. Yeah that and the 15 minute matches Cena had with JBL on PPV in '08 I'll probably never watch again. They all were very tedious viewing for this fan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then they gave Trips vs Orton No DQ on the RAW right before Backlash '09. And it was much better than what was given at Mania. The booking sometimes...


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> *WWE WrestleMania 25​*
> 1) *Money in the Bank Ladder Match*
> CM Punk vs Kane vs Christian vs Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry vs Shelton Benjamin vs MVP vs Kofi Kingston ~ ***1/2
> 
> ...


I agree with this. On paper, this WrestleMania looked awesome and despite the main event, I thought it was a solid show with Taker-HBK stealing the show as expected but for me, the main event took a lot from the PPV. Triple H vs Randy Orton should have at least had a stipulation added to it like a Falls Count Anywhere, Last Man Standing match, etc. Booking it as a standard match between the two was a big mistake that didn't fit into the direction of the feud at all. The whole build-up was about Triple H and Randy Orton wanting to tear each other apart with Randy Orton RKO'ing Stephanie McMahon and Triple H breaking into Randy Orton's home and beating the living crap out of him but with that type of build-up, we get a standard match between the two? Just didn't make sense at all. It's a shame too because this had to be the most promising main event match on paper but it just didn't turn out that way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

After that glorious build it had too. Tis a shame the way the match turned out. It wasn't about wrestling there. It was 100% personal. I should scope out their No DQ Match from RAW in 2009 and see how I feel about it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I talked about the WM25 card a couple months ago and I believe it would have been better if HHH/Jeff WWE Title (with Jeff finally winning the big one over HHH not fucking Edge) and Cena/Orton World Title (Cena defending the company against the psychotic Orton) were the main event matches. I also would have done Jericho/Mysterio w/Steamboat in Rey's corner for the IC Title (Steamboat would still get some spots in). However, I got to see Taker/Michaels live so I really didn't give a shit at the time because that's all I needed to see but looking back the card could have been much better.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Weren't there rumours about Cena wrestling Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania 25? :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Hell in a Cell 2012*

Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio : ***** 1

Team Hell No vs Team Rhodes Scholars : *** ½* .5

The Miz vs Kofi Kingston : *** ¾* .5

Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel : *** ½* .5

Rey Mysterio/Sin Cara vs The Primetime Players : ** 1/2* -.5

Sheamus vs The Big Show : ****** 3.5

Eve vs Kaitlyn vs Layla : *¼ ** -1

CM Punk vs Ryback (Hell in a Cell) : ***** 1

_Thoughts_

Well, this held up ALOT better on a second watch for me. The opener was one of those random Orton matches that we've seen on practically every single PPV since his feud with Henry ended, a damn good match with some great work by Orton. That's not to take anything away from Del Rio though, but this was clearly Orton's match and it showed with the six hundred bajillion sequences that were headed by Orton. Your typical consistent face Orton match from 2011-2012. Great fucking opener here and a fantastic effort by both men, liked the finish even if it was fucked up a little.

The Two tags were really MEH for me. HELL NO vs Rhodes Scholars was pretty good, even though I felt it lacked any transition from second gear to third gear. If the match could have succesfully gotten out of the babyfaces in peril stage and into the comeback stage I would have enjoyed this a hell of alot more. Pretty well worked match though, all things considered due to DANIELSON's epic selling for Rhodes Scholars. THAT and the fact that Sandow's offense is BOSS made this a pretty good contest. The PTP vs ReyCara however was a bad, bad match with a bad, bad pace. Seems like at this stage in his career Rey is relying more on OMGMOVEZ more than anything, but the man can still sell better than most. PTP were alright but Sin Cara sucked balls as usual and dragged this a hell of alot down. Needed to be like, 5 minutes shorter to be decent by my standards.

For the Midcard Titles we got another Cesaro showcase with both him and Gabriel looking awesome with one of the nicest looking moves I've seen in a while (OH MY FUCKING GOD DIVING GABRIEL INTO A FUCKING EUROPEAN UPPERCUT FOR THE FUCKING WIN) putting the icing on the cake for a pretty damn awesome match. LOVE to see guys like Gabriel and Ryder getting PPV time against a guy like Cesaro, now if only we could get a Cesaro-Kidd match on PPV  Miz-Kofi was GOD compared to what I expected from those two god awful POS workers, but they somehow managed to wrestle a pretty damn good match. I suspect a heavy amount of planning beforehand , as the match actually had some leg work and good psychology with some finish teases in there as well. If only Kofi would bother to fucking SELL better this would have been alot higher in value. MIZ was the better worker in a match... My mind has been fucking blown 

The Divas match.... Fuck it. It sucked and felt SOOOO disorganized. This division is so sad.

I already talked about Show Sheamus but DAMN was it a great match, definitely going to be included in my top 10 of the year and perhaps even higher than that. Two big guys moving fast and hitting each other hard with awesome false finishes is enough for a standing ovation from me, so there you go. The other world title match and subsequent main event was a controversial match in Punk/Ryback. Personally, I really enjoyed this match due to essentially being HBK-Taker LITE (as in, negative calories light :lol ) with Ryback taking Taker's role as the unstoppable monster and Punk trying to survive. The extinguisher spot was really well done I thought as well as how they orchestrated the finish. Punk sells for Ryback like no other and in this match he masked Ryback's extreme in-ring limitations as best as he could given the circumstances. One of the more impressive Punk performances of his 400 plus day title reign believe it or not, as Ryback more or less fucking sucks 

So yeah, this PPV is GOD compared to Unforgiven 2007, and besides the awful Divas match and drawn out pointless tag, there wasn't a single bad thing on this one. You has small contributions from your midcard (Cesaro-Gabriel, Miz-Kofi), a great opener, a pretty good main event, and an AWESOME fight between Show and Sheamus. Only a few more 2012 shows to rewatch on DVD once I get them in the mail, but thankfully I have TLC and Survivor Series here to watch in PHYSICAL FORM.

*Overall Score : 5.5*

So yeah, it's higher than recent shows I've watched such as RR 08 and NWO 07, but not quite as good as the likes of Cyber Sunday and Survivor Series 2007. I'm starting to think that on my CAL SCALE , somewhere between 5-7 is where a show starts to become GOOD. Can't wait to get this criteria finished.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE giving Jeff the championship randomly at Armageddon was both a negative and a positive. Positive b/c it was a surprise and it led to a great moment. Negative b/c it happened at the expense of Edge over Triple H and it wasn't exactly the biggest match possible to do it in too. Jeff should have been given a much bigger stage. We all know why by the time Rumble comes around though. The seeds for WrestleMania was well planted before Armageddon. 

I have to say, I would have wanted your card too, Clique.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Punter said:


> Weren't there rumours about Cena wrestling Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania 25? :lmao


I've heard the Cena/Hogan rumor but I also read about Cena/Batista was supposed to happen before Big Dave got injured. They probably would have continued the feud off of the first encounter at SummerSlam '08. Well they did it the following year in Arizona.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yay. Found the Triple H vs Randy Orton No DQ Match from 4/20/09. Gonna give it a go right now. Lets see how it holds up. If anyone cares to watch:

*Part One*
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x91pw1_no-dq-triple-h-vs-randy-orton-1-2_sport

*Part Two*
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x91pzk_no-dq-triple-h-vs-randy-orton-2-2_sport#.UPeewyfBF8E


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Would watch, but I'm watching one of the two WWE PPVs I haven't seen in 2012 ; Survivor Series. Saw a few matches and wasn't overly impressed but I'm giving it a fair shake this time around Love to see Gabriel, Kidd, etc getting PPV TIME.

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

What is this CAL scale you guys have been using lately? From what I've been able to tell, you are giving and taking away points depending on the rating you give it, and anything below ** gets points taken away while anything above, receives points. 

A good explanation would be nice though. Seems to be useful for giving a show an overall score. I always have trouble with that as I'm just picking a random number pretty much. Not sure if I'm entirely correct, but either way I'd need an explanation and I may even start using it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On the main event of TLC 2009 atm and I just have to chime in that this PPV is simply bad. I liked the vast majority of 2009. Much more than others, but I can't take this event. Only match two matches have given me any form of entertainment. Rest is so blatantly off that my mind is nearly blown. Sheamus & John Cena deserved a pay raise for having the only match to be deemed "good". _(so far)_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Am I the only one who didn't like DX v Jericho/Show? (I ain't calling them "JeriShow". I hate those cross-over names and that's one of the worst. "JeriShow"? Was that supposed to be clever? Shoot you in your face.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm 10 minutes into it and I think it sucks so far. Jericho legit stood there waiting for Michaels to come by to take a weak ladder hit by Big Show falling over. This crowd is ATROCIOUS too. So dead.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Am I the only one who didn't like DX v Jericho/Show? (I ain't calling them "JeriShow". I hate those cross-over names and that's one of the worst. "JeriShow"? Was that supposed to be clever? Shoot you in your face.)



"ShowMiz"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Tables, Ladders, & Chairs 2009​*
1) *ECW Championship* - *Ladder Match*
Christian(c) vs Shelton Benjamin ~ *


2) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*
John Morrison(c) vs Drew McIntyre ~ **1/4


3) *WWE Women's Championship*
Michelle McCool(c) vs Mickie James ~ DUD


4) *WWE Championship* - *Tables Match*
John Cena(c) vs Sheamus ~ ***


5) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Chairs Match*
The Undertaker(c) vs Batista ~ *1/2


6) Randy Orton vs Kofi Kingston ~ *


7) *WWE Unified Tag Team Championship* -* Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match*
Chris Jericho & Big Show(c) vs Shawn Michaels & Triple H ~ *3/4​
Yikes.

~ Opener was trash. Christian is the man. Always will be. Especially during 2009. Shelton had already started to suck here and it showed. So many lame spots for the sake of spots. 5 minutes of this match took place outside of the ring for no reason whatsoever. Hated it. Glad Christian retained.

~ Decent to the point where I found Morrison vs McIntyre near above average range. Morrison didn't hit Starship Pain though. That certainly didn't help the match out. Solid enough neck work by Drew and Morrison's comeback gave me entertainment. It was only one of two matches from this show I got a kick out of seeing. Drew wins and beings his ride as IC Champ. oh how that feels like such a distant memory.

~ lol @ McTaker & Piggy James. moving on.

~ Alright, a GOOD match. Sheamus and Cena clobber each other for about 15 minutes. It's pretty entertaining. The moment the match started I began to commentate the bout like Dusty Rhodes. Screaming "clubberin" over and over again b/c it reminded me of that type of match he'd go nuts for. Good use of the gimmick and overall a good match that I still to this day enjoy. Finish was logical in letting Sheamus take the championship and not have Cena look bad in defeat against such a fresh face to the main event picture. Although it wouldn't have hurt Cena to do so either way. Still, I'll credit the company for some booking logic there. Sheamus winning the championship was such a :mark: moment for me.

~ UNDERTAKER VS BATISTA~! in a chairs match? FUCK. These never seem to work. No exception here. Completely blah with a laughable bad/illogical finish. Teddy Long doesn't like low blows in matches where people bash each other with chairs. :|

~ Seen one Orton match as the Viper seen them all. Seen on Kofi Kingston match seen then all. That's what you get here. Same ol same ol.

~ TLC match was BORING. With the men involved I expecting something fun. Especially from Show. Nothing. Stuff happens for about 20 minutes then Jericho dies and it ends. End of entire bad show. Ignagual TLC event was like a trainwreck. How 2010 managed to bounce back I'll never know.

Sheamus vs Morrison from TLC 2010 > everything on this show by a country mile + 3 of the oceans that cover this planet we live on. I'd recommend a pass.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Orton/Cesaro
*
This was a decent contest I though but not up to the standards of last week Ziggler/Sheamus match.I felt it was quite methodical at point and Orton in perticular looked like he was in slow motion , really didn't feel any zap or intensity in his offence. Some decent things in this match though such as a sick looking superplex and some smart limb worka from Cesaro using Orton's well know shoulder issues. Furthermore , I felt this added to Cesaro's angle with the Miz which I feel is getting a decent build for a US title match and its match I do want to see. Also felt the lack of a real finishing stretch hindered it as well. Still worth a watch. ***1/4

*PTP/Uso's
*
Brad Maddox hops over the barricade to join Cole on commentary :lol . Just your standard tag team affair , Titus's whistle brings the heat lol . Wish these two were more prevalent in the tag team scene since they can both bring different things to the division. *1/2

I think Cole forgot to announce next weeks main event as he was too concerned with Maddox.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Twisted14 said:


> What is this CAL scale you guys have been using lately? From what I've been able to tell, you are giving and taking away points depending on the rating you give it, and anything below ** gets points taken away while anything above, receives points.
> 
> A good explanation would be nice though. Seems to be useful for giving a show an overall score. I always have trouble with that as I'm just picking a random number pretty much. Not sure if I'm entirely correct, but either way I'd need an explanation and I may even start using it.


The CAL SCALE was something I came up with in order to rank the 2012 PPV's at the end of the year. I gave points to matches depending on how good they were. It was basic as hell, but did the job nicely. KoK has messed about with it so it's a little more advanced, and I've changed it as well for my current RR reviews. My version looks like this:

The Cal Scale

NO = -1 (a "NO" match is a match that I simply cannot bring myself around to watch. So if I can't watch it, it gets minus 1 fucking point)
DUD-* = 0
*1/4-** = 0.5
**1/4-**3/4 = 1
***-***1/4 = 2
***1/2 = 3
***3/4 = 4
**** = 5
****1/4 = 6
****1/2 = 7
****3/4 = 8
***** = 9
MOTY/GOAT = 2 (This one all depends on how you are using the scale. Ranking all the PPV's would likely see you giving a match the MOTY award, whereas me reviewing all the RR events would allow me to use the GOAT award for the greatest Rumble match of all time. Can only be used once)

An example of me using it:

1992 Royal Rumble - 13.5

The New Hart Foundation Vs The Orient Express - ***1/2 - 3
The Mountie Vs Rowdy Roddy Piper - 1/4* - 0
The Bushwhackers Vs The Beaverly Brothers - NO - -1
The Natural Disasters Vs The Legion of Doom - ** - 0.5
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***** GOAT (imo the greatest Rumble ever so it gets the 9 points for being 5 stars, then 2 points for being the GOAT Rumble match, as I'm doing a list of all the RR's) - 11


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The CAL scale is beast. Cal, post your GOD DAMN 2002 Rumble review will you ? I'm fucking bored and I need to read a review that's not complete bullshit like everything on 411, Youtube, WWEDVDNEWS, and the like.

DA BROCKTAGON could be coming back to the WWE but apparently isn't going to work with Taker at Mania due to Brock's style being too PHYSICAL. I don't buy it whatsoever and It's either Taker or Rock for Brock at Mania. Would he have came back unless he was going to get a big time money match like that.

That opening Survivor Series BONUZ tag was actually pretty good. Loved how strong they made KIDD look, as he got TWO ELIMINATIONS. I'm in the middle of *** 3/4* - ***** right now and I'm torn apart deciding. Leaning towards the lesser ratings here on this one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2002 RR review posted .

Got THE STREAK Bluray through the post today, and the best of Raw & SD 2011 too since both are/were on offer on SV. Things like Cena/Rey, Christian/Del Rio and a few other things made me want it. Plus, £9.99 for 3 disc Bluray set? Bargain.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havnt watched RR 2002 on a long time, but didn't Perfect superplex Angle? Great little moment...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro/Orton didn't do much for me. It's actually a good example of why Orton isn't a good babyface worker. He's not good at drawing sympathy from the crowd or viewer when the heel is in control and he's even worse at making it seem like he had to work hard to make his comeback and get back into the match. Good babyface workers like Mysterio, Bryan, Cena, Christian and Sheamus know how to make their comeback offense look meaningful, like if they had to work hard to get back on the offensive. Orton just kinda hits a random move or counter and doesn't do much to convey any effort or desperation. In a way it shits on the heel's control work and Cesaro v Orton felt quite bleh to me because of it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Best of Raw/SD 11 on sale? (Y)

02 GAME Rumble? :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Havnt watched RR 2002 on a long time, but didn't Perfect superplex Angle? Great little moment...


Indeed he did. Perfect being in the final 3 made me :mark: back in the day too.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

This upercutt, brilliant


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

About to watch Taker/Trips from KOTR 02. :mark:

Yes, only a masochist like myself would actually go into it excited based on the feedback. :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/Trips KOTR is SHIT. Like, SUPER SHIT.

Hurricane trying to hurri-slam both Austin and HHH in the 02 Rumble gets me everytime. Awesome little moment along with Taker and MAVEN. DAT POPCORN.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Taker/Trips KOTR is SHIT. Like, SUPER SHIT.
> 
> Hurricane trying to hurri-slam both Austin and HHH in the 02 Rumble gets me everytime. Awesome little moment along with Taker and MAVEN. DAT POPCORN.



Lol, that was funny. *sigh* I miss Gregory Helms. :sad:

By the way, anyone see this Diesel poster guy? Shit, he's a bulls-eye and him being stupid doesn't help. I'm a fan of Nash's Diesel days but, keep that on the downlow man.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Undertaker vs Triple H - King of the Ring 2002*
- Wow, maybe I should've listened to you guys instead of laughing. This is just comical. So many errors with this, I don't know where to start. Goes on for way too long and during the first 15 or so minutes, this is boring as shit. Slow as fuck and both men look exhausted. That Spinebuster by HHH looks like it was done by a midget. Absolutely no elevation whatsoever. Then the ref bump happens and shit gets comical from there on. The Rock randomly comes out and finally saves us from Heyman's annoying Brock Lesnar fellating but the ref bump itself is comical. Probably lasted more than their WM17 match and that says _a lot_. The second ref comes out and HHH kicks out of the move Taker performed on him so Taker comes out with one of his best attributes as a heel and that's assaulting referees when he gives the second ref a right haymaker knocking him out of the ring. Outside the ring the comedy continues as Taker suddenly hits The Rock with a big boot and the interference overbooking starts from there as Rock lays Taker out with a Rock Bottom. Both men lay around and hit a finisher or two while the ref plays dead some more then Taker lowblows HHH and wins with the longest roll-up in history. THIS. WAS. HILARIOUS. FOR. ALL. THE. WRONG. REASONS. ★¼

Eat your heart out, Cal.  THIS MATCH EXISTS!!!!!!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> This upercutt, brilliant


The ref sold it better than Orton.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Just watched "The Rise and Fall of ECW" for a bout the third time. Damn I miss this company.

It really was the right place at the right time though. Music was getting that bit edgy/grungy type and WWE were at that stage where they really were catering for kids. WCW wasn't really there yet and well ECW was catering to a new society. If ECW was around today it would be absolutely shat on, just due to society. It's the same with the Attitude Era, there is no way in absolute hell it would draw the numbers it did in the 90s


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Empty Arena Match for the WWF Championship: The Rock (c) vs Mankind 
★ ★ ★ ★ 1/2​*


I haven't seen this match in ages but came across my Mick Foley "Hard Knocks & Cheap Pops" DVD and decided to pop it in...very enjoyable set but this match in particular is what I wanted to see. 


Man this joint is gold. 


Vince doing commentary, Rock doing in-match commentary both were awesome. Its so interesting because you can hear everything they say clearly. To that point Vince goes on a tangent about what WWF is and I don't want to take away from the match but its an important thing to me he said: "your watching action adventure, that's what the WWF is- soap opera. Its Road Runner, elements on 'One Life To Live', its like Hollywood and Broadway and all points in between". Man that's an interesting description of your product. As for Rock's commentary ("you look like 10lbs of monkey crap in a 5lb bag", singing about Jack Daniels) is fuckin' hilarious. The talking alone is level entertainment. 


The match was essentially a falls count anywhere contest with no crowd. Mankind took a pretty good beating and gave the Rock a lot of material to work with to get himself over. Mankind attacking a Rock with a giant bag of popcorn pretty much the highlight of his offense, but this match and other Mankind matches are about how much punishment he can take and continue to fight. 


The finish was very creative, so was the camera work during the sequence. Of course looking back on it, it looks incredibly staged and that takes away from it a bit but I think it was the best way for Rock to lose and keep credibility. It was also a moment of Mankind outsmarting Rock instead of always being the one outsmarted. 


Very entertaining match from a perspective of bringing together a lot of different elements such as comedy, the illusion of improvisation, intensity and good stuntwork (and selling) by Mankind.​


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

The one shot zooming in on Rocks face killed the finish for me. Foley says the same thing in his book. Otherwise one of the funniest matches ever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rock/Mankind Empty Arena was a hell of a ride, had tons of fun watching it, especially considering the circumstances.

I'm throwing star ratings for one of my personal favourite shows, *No Mercy 2006*:
Gregory Helms vs. Matt Hardy - ***3/4
Londrick vs. KC James & Idol Stevens (D-Sandow)- ***1/2
MVP/Jobber - DUD
Taker/Kennedy - **3/4
Rey/Chavo - ***1/4
Benoit/Regal - ****1/4 (might be overrating the match that 1st really got me into wrestling)
Fatal 4-Way - ***1/4

Looked shitty on paper but given how awesome SD was in 06, that meant nothing. For fans of stiff and bloody pure wrestling wars, Benoit/Regal is a must-watch, really underrated I see.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Edge vs Matt Hardy - Summerslam '05 - ***
Edge vs Matt Hardy - Raw 8/28/05 (Street Fight) - ***1/2
Edge vs Matt Hardy - Unforgiven (Steel Cage) - ****1/2
Edge vs Matt Hardy - Raw 10/3 (Ladder) - ***3/4

Despite being very short, the brutality of the SS matches makes it awesome. The street fight is a really good encounter that escalates the violence and gives Matt a moral victory even though it goes N/C. The cage match is everything a cage match should be. Really good ladder match as well. Doesn't live up to the cage one but I felt that the spots worked and the ending was great.

Remember when midcard feuds got gimmick matches?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

That cage match was fantastic. Didn't like the ladder match, though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brye said:


> Remember when midcard feuds got gimmick matches?


Yes I do. Remember when midcard feuds had storylines and build? I mean c'mon even Crash Holly 13 years ago had character progression and a running angle from week to week.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's a good point, Brye. When's the last time a hot midcard feud had a legit blowoff gimmick match that wasn't on an all-gimmick PPV and actually meant something? For that matter, when's the last time there was a hot midcard feud.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Benoit/Regal - ****1/4 (might be overrating the match


 You aren't. It's amazing.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bryan/Miz was a really well done midcard feud, stemming from Miz mentoring Bryan on NXT, to Bryan getting a one night contract to face him on Raw, to returning at Summerslam ahead of him as the final member of Team WWE and then the US Title match at NOC. Ziggler/Ryder also had a pretty passable long running feud combining Ryder's youtube show with things like Jackman guest hosting Raw and getting involved by punching Dolph, culminating in the TLC victory for Ryder.

Those are the only ones that really stick out. In a way I appreciate them trying to make the bigger angles/stories exclusive to the uppercard/main event, as a mistake TNA habitually made was having so many 'shocking' angles across the card that it was nye on impossible to get something like a Nexus invasion over because the fans had been pre-conditioned to seeing an array of violent angles that it didn't feel special. The problem with current WWE is that the feuds are just lazily booked with no clea progression, with the gimmick PPVs not helping because a feud which hasn't been properly built will be pushed into a gimmick match because of the PPV theme. It really doesn't deviate beyond single/tag team matches, the babyface/heel commentating on the opponent's match or a staredown/post match interference.

Benoit/Regal No Mercy is fantastic, and just marginally better than the 7/14/05 Velocity encounter between them. The NJPW 1995 encounter is also an overlooked bout of theirs, though the youtube link has long been taken down sadly. Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day 2006 is still imo the best match out of the Benoit/Finlay/Regal series of matches, with Finlay/Regal Uncensored arguably 2nd and then either Benoit/Finlay 5/5/06 SD or Benoit/Regal No Mercy 2006 in 3rd.

Hardy/Edge Unforgiven is by far their best match and as stated simply how a Cage match should be worked, especially when the feud in question is a blood feud as opposed to a title feud. I still love the Summerslam match, merely because it felt like a territory angle in that everyone would have expected a fairly lengthy encounter and instead got something completely unexpected which both put over the hate and danger in the angle as well as making Edge look more dangerous and Matt's subsequent redemption all the more heroic. Too often with WWE you can almost call how a match is going to be layed out and executed, whereas in this instance it was something barely anyone would have predicted and felt shocking and brave on their part.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There haven't been that many legit unexpected beatdowns that I can recall. BROCK/Cena is the only other one that comes to mind.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Agreed, it is a pretty under utilised angle, though I guess on PPV WWE is pre-conditioned to wanting to run fairly lengthy matches less risk turning viewers away by not delivering on a match. I still think its a beautiful way to build heat in the feud and make viewers realise not every feud/match will play out like the last and in the Hardy/Edge case, one bad bump by Hardy leading to Edge relentlessly abusing him until the referee deemed it dangerous to continue was a shrewd tactic.

Will be unlikely to get anything like that again for a while, only way they could do it with their current direction would be an injury angle, though its not quite got the lasting impact of a bloody beatdown of a crowd hero.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I vageuly remember being a bit uncomfortable watching Hardy/Edge. Didn't Edge kick him stiffly in the head a few times?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yup, Matt was pretty much prone on the middle and bottom rope and Edge was just booting the crap out of him for a couple of minutes. Of course the bloody head and tremendous visual selling from Matt really put over the situation and the bump itself off the steel edge of the turnbuckle looked nasty in of itself.

Shame people look on it as a disappointment because as I said I think its one of the more gutsier and well worked piece of booking I've seen in some time from the company.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That selling was followed up by HBK flopping around making a mockery of Hogan's offense :lmao


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

You know what'd be ubercool? *Lesnar/Bryan*. The story writes itself. It's like an upgraded version of Morishima/Danielson.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Rock/Mankind Empty Arena was a hell of a ride, had tons of fun watching it, especially considering the circumstances.
> 
> I'm throwing star ratings for one of my personal favourite shows, *No Mercy 2006*:
> Gregory Helms vs. Matt Hardy - ***3/4
> ...


I don't think I've watched that PPV before. I'm going to watch it later mainly for the Benoit/Regal match that sounds pretty promising. Their match on Velocity was great, pure wrestling and would love to view their No Mercy encounter.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm still not sure which bump is my favourite in the Shawn/Hogan match. Obviously the big boot bump where he comes off the canvas only to spin in a circle and fall back is the most memorable, but I'm a sucker for the outward flip bump off the head into the turnbuckle shot, as well as his bump off the clothesline to the floor.

Vintage cokehead Michaels that night.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'd kill for Lesnar/Danielson but it wouldn't happen. I think they could do a great David vs Goliath storyline with Danielson playing the physically outmatched babyface using his technical abilities to expose Brock's weakness (gut, I'm assuming?).

edit the one to the outside is probably my favorite :lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> You know what'd be ubercool? *Lesnar/Bryan*. The story writes itself. It's like an upgraded version of Morishima/Danielson.


Agreed. Doesn't even have to be a match where Bryan goes over, just make it the match that people will arguably remember most from his WWE career. Have it largely worked similar to the Batista match, only with 8-10 more mins added on and Lesnar obviously being far more physical and violent in decimating Bryan. Have him get a few strong nearfalls through submissions, have Lesnar sell the shock, worry and fear this guy might have his number and then put Bryan over in defeat in the best way possible: something along the lines of a Brock Lock/referee stoppage should do the trick.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

*SummerSlam 2001*

Lance Storm vs. Edge - ***1/2
Spike Dudley & The APA vs. Test & The Dudley Boyz - *
X-Pac vs. Tajiri - **1/2
Rhyno vs. Chris Jericho - ***
Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam - ***
Diamond Dallas Page & Chris Kanyon vs. The Undertaker & Kane - **
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle - ****1/2
Booker T vs. The Rock - ***3/4

Whilst I enjoyed the Invasion at the time, looking back, it was miserable as fuck. Sure, the guys they had were able to put on decent/good matches but, that was it. The story line sucked. DDP was undeservedly jobbed out to Undertaker when he could have been another one of the 'big WCW guys' which the Alliance was lacking. Also, the Alliance thing sucked, ECW really shouldn't have been in this story and if they HAD to be put into it, they could have been made a separate threat or, they could have paired up with Vince since Heyman did get help from Vince financially and they both hated WCW.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

:mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished watching Cesaro/Orton from Main Event a few hours ago. A decent match and it's nice to see a fresh match-up get a lot of time. Really enjoyed it and although I hate the Shield's interference, it worked in protecting both men. ★★★¼.

Next up: Show/Taker NM08



JoeRulz said:


> You know what'd be ubercool? *Lesnar/Bryan*. The story writes itself. It's like an upgraded version of Morishima/Danielson.


Yep. They seem to be keen on resigning Brock for another year. Hope he spends this year in a few fresh match-ups against the likes of Bryan, Sheamus and most importantly, Orton. IF he resigns. That way, they should have Rock/Cena II and Taker/Lesnar this year and do Rock/Lesnar & Taker/Cena next year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> You know what'd be ubercool? *Lesnar/Bryan*. The story writes itself. It's like an upgraded version of Morishima/Danielson.


Shima/Danielson matches. :mark:

Would absolutely kill to see Bryan/Lesnar have a match. Bryan works that kind of match so well and Lesnar is awesome at being the aggressor.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bryan/Lesnar would probably be able to easily surpass the Lesnar/Mysterio matches if booked correctly and given sufficient time. As said Bryan's a master of working from the bottom, bumping like a madman and timing his comebacks and submissions in a believeable manner and Lesnar is underrated in his ability to sell a guy as a bigger threat than he anticipated whilst still wrestling and looking like the baddest man on the planet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the 04 RR. Good god the undercard is atrocious. On my CAL SCALE its a 1.5, with just the RR match to go :lmao. That'll bump it up a fair bit so it won't be the worst RR event ever, but still lol. 5 matches, 1.5.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bryan going for those No Locks late in the TLC match against The Shield was fucking epic. His comebacks in that match were great.

I feel like the WWE section would act like Lesnar/Bryan would be a horrible idea and then end up eating their words on it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He released one from No Lock, put another in it, then released him and tried to apply the No Lock to the third member only to eventually eat a fucking steel chair to the mouth :lmao

The KICKS back and forth before the Blackout were awesome too. Crowd went wild during Bryan's attempted comebacks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ambrose is scary as fuck with a chair in his hand. Some of his shots from that match were nasty.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bryan/Henry was amazing and further showed how well Bryan can make himself look a believeable threat when he times his offence as well as he does. Of course Henry is a special worker who knows how to sell enough to look beatable and create tension whilst still carrying that air of supremacy that makes Bryan or any smaller opponent a sympathetic underdog.

The WWE idiots would probably moan its unrealistic for Bryan to be wrestling Lesnar for 10 minutes, whilst remaining oblivious to how he wrestled Mysterio, Hardy and other smaller guys in his first run and how wrestling is based on the suspension of disbelief and the characters pulling you into situations and getting you to care about the result. Bryan countering the F5 or Kimura lock into a submission and seeing Lesnar sell the pain and struggle to escape before brutalising Bryan to the point where he can't continue would make Brock look monstrous whilst getting Bryan over even more as a tough bastard.

Forget to mention, Ambrose's facial expressions in the No Lock were outstanding. Looked like he was screaming in agony but letting his pride stop him from giving up, like a psycho in pain but who's fighting for his life to overcome the pain long enough for his partners to assist him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hey WOOLCOCK just book the damn match already you're getting me excited. 

edit Yeah it was hilarious how after Reigns speared Kane through the barricade Rollins went over to congratulate him, both unaware that Ambrose was selling the No Lock like crazy :lmao


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Hopefully Bryan gets another singles run after Wrestlemania. Wouldn't even mind if he had a run with either mid card belt , the guy is so over he can make anything relevant. Just wish he would tonne down the Yes/No thing since its lost all subtlety in Team Hell No .


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Speaking of potential and possible dream matches...Anyone else really want to see an Ambrose, Triple h match. Considering their current roles it wouldn't be hard to make it happen...

Could be a fucking classic

Edit: or even better an epic :yes vs :jpl matchup. That could also be tremendous...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Rey 

Never gonna happen.

As far as dream matches go, I was incredibly lucky last year because I got 3 of them in Rock/Cena, HHH/Taker HIAC and Trips/Lesnar along with an extra one I hadn't even thought of in Cena/Lesnar. I even got to witness 2 of them live in person. The only HUGE dream match left for me would be Taker/Cena. Of course there are other matches I'd love to see but wouldn't exactly consider them a dream match. 

Trips/Ambrose could be very interesting to say the least. I'd watch it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think I have any real dream matches left. A couple I'd like to see, but wouldn't really be bothered if we didn't. Nothing I'd sacrifice a shee... I mean goat (sorry WOOLCOCK, didn't mean to scare you) for, like I di... would have done in 09 for HBK/Undertaker.

I've said too much.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK/Danielson probably tops my list of matches I'd love to see but won't happen.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HBK/Eddie was a dream match of mine that never happened. 

Would also like Punk/HBK, Bryan/Taker, Cesaro/Mysterio and Trips/Mysterio.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Surprised HBK/Eddie never happened. We barely even got HBK/Mysterio.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Didn't really get Trips/Eddie either other than that one match on the Raw draft show in 04. Did Cena/Eddie ever happen? I would have loved to have seen one more Trips/Shawn match (don't shoot me lol) at this later stage of their careers. HBK/Mysterio happened that one time on SD in 2009 I think.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I thought HBK/Rey happened on a Raw, and it was a little disappointing iirc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Didn't really get Trips/Eddie either other than that one match on the Raw draft show in 04. Did Cena/Eddie ever happen? I would have loved to have seen one more Trips/Shawn match (don't shoot me lol) at this later stage of their careers. HBK/Mysterio happened that one time on SD in 2009 I think.


Cena and Eddie had a feud back in 03. PARKING LOT BRAWL.

EDIT: HBK/Rey happened twice, Eddie memorial show then SD in Jan 2010.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^^^^ How the hell did I forget that? Duh.

SD iirc. Wherever it happened, it didn't get the stage that it should have.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ah, the Eddie Memorial Show, that's right.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

True. Maybe not a "dream" match but pretty sweet ass matches...

In terms of actual concievable dream matches most have already occurred..

Or are about to with rocky and punk... But beyond that yeah I don't see much else maybe Orton Lesnar if it were a few years ago... 

Considering Beniot and Eddie are gone most of my personal dream matches can never happen


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

My only remaining dream matches are Lesnar/Bryan, Cena/Taker, Bryan/HBK, Cesaro/Mysterio, Bryan/Taker, oh and Trips/Mysterio

I'm kind of a Danielson mark......


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I forgot how good TLC 1 was. Fucking carnage!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> I forgot how good TLC 1 was. Fucking carnage!


*****

PERFECT carnage.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> *****
> 
> PERFECT carnage.


It really was. 

They really set the bench mark and I honestly don't think that can be beat. I mean you're going to have to be pretty creative and pretty daring to even think about beating it. I mean a 300 pound man going falling off a 20 foot ladder in the middle of the ring through four tables on the outside, I don't think any other 300 pound man could pull that off, sounded like a legit car crash.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah TLC I is pretty awesome. Second best TLC match ever with TLC III ahead of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's why TLC II had the inevitable recycled spots come WrestleMania 17. Only a few, but fact remains. Original set the bar SO high. Then they add in Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit a few weeks after and TLC III ends up being near the level of TLC I. So they managed to change things up to keep it great. I'm a mark for nearly every TLC match so I'll continue to show my love for the gimmick. 

_(I say this as last night I watched a TLC match that I legit didn't like. ha.)_


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*One Night Stand 2005*

Lance Storm vs. Chris Jericho ***1/2 (Fun opening match but not long enough to get ****)

Tajiri vs. Little Guido vs. Super Crazy *** (good 6 minute match)

Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psichosis ***

Sabu vs. Rhyno **1/2

Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero **3/4 (was I the only one who expected this to be a lot better?)

Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka ****1/2

Dudley Boyz vs. Sandman & Tommy Dreamer **1/2 (Too much baggage. Sandman's entrance lasted forever. BWO,Balls Mahoney, and Axl Rotten had run-ins. The whole thing was just a mess to me. The match itself was alright, but mostly hard weapon shots and not much else. The use of a cheese grater was pretty cool though)

Overall, decent show. Definitely easy to sit through but I didn't like the abundance of time given to the "WWE invading" stuff. It led to nothing particularly interesting and some of the chants from the crowd were utterly cringe-worthy. 

Overall though, 7.5/10

The Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka match is the only great match here in my opinion and it's recommended.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course everyone expected plenty more from Eddie vs Benoit. It's usually a pairing that delivers. Not on that night.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Yeah TLC I is pretty awesome. Second best TLC match ever with TLC III ahead of it.


You know what? TLC III really isn't sticking in my mind right now. I think I am going to give that a watch right now in fact!




Hailsabin said:


> It's why TLC II had the inevitable recycled spots come WrestleMania 17. Only a few, but fact remains. Original set the bar SO high. Then they add in Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit a few weeks after and TLC III ends up being near the level of TLC I. So they managed to change things up to keep it great. I'm a mark for nearly every TLC match so I'll continue to show my love for the gimmick.
> 
> _(I say this as last night I watched a TLC match that I legit didn't like. ha.)_


Yeah, I was a fan of TLC II, I think we all love it and I do think it sort of gets overrated due to it being on one of, if not the greatest Wrestlemania of all time as well as having the Edge spear spot off the ladder.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not the biggest fan of TLC II. Its good, but not great. Still the 5th best TLC match, but that's because we've had some real stinkers too .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> You know what? TLC III really isn't sticking in my mind right now. I think I am going to give that a watch right now in fact!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Indeed. I agree. I still rank it high, but that shouldn't surprise anyone.

Give III & IV a watch right now. III is epic & IV is probably the most underrated TLC match given by WWE.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Unforgiven 2004
15:07 Batista &Flair vs Regal & Benoit - **3/4
8:22 Victoria vs Trish Stratus - **
6:25 Tyson Tomko vs Steven Richards - No Rating and quite possibly the worst PPV match ever
22:29 Chris Jericho vs Christian - ***
18:04 Shawn Michaels vs Kane - **1/2
9:41 La Resistance vs Tajiri & Rhyno - *3/4
24:44 Triple H vs Randy Orton - ***

Overall: 6.5/10 - not bad but nothing great either. I still hate the ending to the main event and wish they had kept the belt on Orton longer. The most memorable moment from the night was Jericho receiving a steel enema.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

IV is overrated by WWE themselves. GOAT Raw match for the first 10 years? LOL. 

FLAIR/EDGE is where its at.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> IV is overrated by WWE themselves. GOAT Raw match for the first 10 years? LOL.
> 
> FLAIR/EDGE is where its at.


Didn't know about their rankings, but it means dick what they think. They credit Dolph Ziggler as a World Champion after all. It's a pretty great match for me.

As is Flair vs Edge.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RANKING TEH TLC MATCHEROOONIES:

13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
11. DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 - **1/2
10. CM Punk Vs Alberto Del Rio Vs The Miz - TLC XII TLC 2011 - **1/2
09. John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 - ***
08. Bubba & Spike Vs Kane & Hurricane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 - ***1/4
07. CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009 - ***1/2
06. Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010 - ***1/2
05. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 01/04/2001 - ***3/4
04. Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
03. The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012 - ****
02. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I SummerSlam 2000 - ****1/4
01. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001 - ****1/2


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

GOAT PROMO :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

At least 3 people I think quit the show following that promo. HHH WEEDING OUT THE WEAK!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Big Z said:


> 03. The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012 - ****


How dare you Big Z. Lord Meltzer himself rated this match a ****1/2 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What does he know? I bet he doesn't even use the CAL SCALE. And he stole STARS from Norm Dooley.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

True enough :lmao

I've fluctuated on that match. Sometimes it's ****1/4, and sometimes it's ****1/2.

Fucking awesome match though. I love it, and everyone played their characters majestically.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd rank every TLC match atm, only I think I should give the TLC 2010 ones another go. Four Way was one I loved, but maybe I shut my brain off for it and didn't realize some gaping holes. Never liked Miz vs King much so maybe a rewatch to witness it was better than I originally thought is fitting. 

Rest are locked in with how I feel. Majority gets a (Y) from me.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I've just got up TLC III and I will be doing a live feedback of it as I watch. I'm genuinely excited as I honestly can't for the life of me remember anything about it, here we go:

Aaaah the ovaltron, how I love thee. Damn I miss that ovaltron, always thought it was better than the fist although nothing against the fist as I absolutely loved that too.

Bubba Ray takes hits like a champ, I guess that is what growing up in ECW does for ya. That seat drop off the top rope always looked like it hurt when it missed, fuck my ass already feels like a Japanese flag just thinking about it. He also hits like a champ, brilliant ladder throw at Jeff Hardy, even better than the chair he threw at Hardy at TLC I. 

WALLS OF FUCKING JERICHO ON TOP OF THE LADDER. Now that is awesome. I always thought something like that was missing from TLC I but we didn't have any submission specialists in the original. Straight after that, damn Christian went over the fucking top rope from the ladder, not sure that was planned but that looked like it hurt! Please don't try this at home.

A fucking suplex off the ladder now. This is brilliant. I'm about 7 or so minutes into the actual match and I can feel that this is going feel like a much better watch overall than TLC I. It's been awesome thus far, I can't believe I haven't seen this any sooner. Fuck my life.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSUPPPPPP.

Jesus H. Christ, Chris Jericho just took a shot to the head like a pro, what a hit. Nice 3D to the table on Christian, saw that at TLC I though but I suppose it HAD to happen!

I'm not Hardys biggest fan but I respect all the times he has done something that I know has physically hurt his body for the entertainment of the fans and that leg drop over the ladder and through Bubba and the announce table was sweet as hell. 

Fuckkk, we got another spear spot from the top of the ladder, that was brilliant. Not quite as good as Hardys one (just because it was so fucking epic and had to be perfect) but it was still pretty damn sweet to see!

and Benoit climbs the ladder, selling the beating and his ribs to a tee, and regains the gold for himself and Jericho. Damn what a fine fucking match.

I can't believe this was on TV. It was better than any of the PPV TLC matches I have ever seen and it is a definite **** 1/2, just superb from all men. I just wish one day we can get something even half as good as the tag team division was in the late 90s/early 00s in the WWE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC III love :mark:.

On mention of the Edge Spear from the ladder while Jeff hangs from the belts... everyone should check out the E&C/Hardys Ladder Match from Raw in like, September 2000. Edge first (I think?) does the spear spot there, albeit not from such a high ladder. Plus its a great match and very forgotten. It got released on the Ladder Match 2 set, so no excuses for people to not watch it now its available .

Watching the 05 RR event. Looks like it'll be a great overall event with only one potential bad match, but who knows I may change my mind.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two matches are bad, imo. One is fun from a guilty pleasure standpoint, but the other is boring. (probably the same one you think would be bad - HHH/Orton.) Rest are fine. Rumble match was the highlight. Take a guess at which is my guilty pleasure match on the event. :hmm:

*NXT 1/16/13​*
1) Adrian Neville vs Sakamoto ~ *


2) Trent Barreta vs Leo Kruger ~ 3/4*


3) *NXT Championship*
Big E. Langston(c) vs Camacho ~ DUD


4) International Airstrike (Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel) vs Antonio Cesaro & Damien Sandow ~ *​

Hugely disappointing main event. Was so uninspired and vanilla. Only thing to take away from this show is PAC's debut, Ohno on commentary, & how Big E. Langston continues to be one of the worst things I've ever seen in the world of wrestling. A "5 count" gimmick. :lmao


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Two matches are bad, imo. One is fun from a guilty pleasure standpoint, but the other is boring. (probably the same one you think would be bad - HHH/Orton.) Rest are fine. Rumble match was the highlight. Take a guess at which is my guilty pleasure match on the event. :hmm:
> 
> *NXT 1/16/13​*
> 1) Adrian Neville vs Sakamoto ~ *
> ...


Wow, that's crazy. That main event sounds great on paper, I didn't even know that match was happening/had happened.

Wonder if this is the show where Tyson got injured on(well not initially but re-injured)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I was hyped for it too. Time wasn't an issue - it went 7:59 - it just was very bleh. Just there.

I don't think this was the match that sparked injury. Kidd seemed 100% and with what the finish was, I doubt he'll be able to do it if he was aggravated to possibly being re-injured. iirc, I heard it happened at a live event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished watching Show-Sheamus from Survivor Series 2012. My thoughts are pretty simple on this one ; pretty good match, and it has an awesome finishing stretch, but to get there the build is way worse than the HIAC match. Not to say that the build here is bad, just that the HIAC match featured a build with a ton of stiffness and hitting while this is more of a traditional resthold big man vs big man match that switches tempo towards the end. More on my STARZ for this match and my Survivor Series 2012 review in general once I finish watching it 

PS : Orton-Trips from the Rumble 2005 is surprisingly good. VINTAGE CEREBRAL ASSASSIN working on Orton's head in a concussion angle type deal. Heidenreich-Taker has always been a guilty pleasure of mine, while the WWE Championship triple threat I've ALWAYS loved for some reason. Love the Rumble as well, and the opener is okay I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Way Orton vs Trips went was...weird. Lets FAKE a concussion to have Orton looking strong in defeat? Pass. That match didn't need another reason to come off slow and uninteresting.

Michaels vs Edge is solid, Taker vs Heidenreich is bad, but I'll always get a kick out of it, & the WWE Championship is quite a bit of FUN~! I almost went to that show. Wished I would have so I could have said I've seen Eddie Guerrero live. </3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The 5-Count gimmick is AWESOME. :$ Well I haven't been watching, but it worked for King Kong Bundy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The 5-Count gimmick is AWESOME. :$ Well I haven't been watching, but it worked for King Kong Bundy.


Bundy is BUNDY. Not some trashy guy who comes out with cocaine on his hands and wearing a jobber Mark Henry Nation of Domination singlet while trying to be a tough guy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fun Activity TIME ! Here is a list of every WWE Champion since the "WWE" era began in 2002. Rank them in terms of workrate ;

Hulk Hogan
The Undertaker
The Rock
Brock Lesnar
The Big Show
Kurt Angle
Eddie Guerrero
John Bradshaw Layfield
John Cena
Edge
Rob Van Dam
Triple H
Randy Orton
Jeff Hardy
Batista
Sheamus
The Miz
CM Punk
Alberto Del Rio

Going to post mine when I think about it. Remember this is OVERALL CAREER WORKRATE , not just when they were champion.... AAAAANNNNDDDD GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker, Eddie, Punker, Big Show, & Cena.

TOP 5~!

Sheamus & Brock deserve love too. Rest have their moments. Well, I'd put over Jeff Hardy a lot as a matter of fact._ (SHOCKER?)_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1. Guerrero
2. Taker
3. Cena
4. Punk
5. Show

Same 5 guys as Cody. Yeah I tried to do some of the rest but mostly everything after that is just "ARGHEURHGH". Especially when I haven't seen stuff. Like, Del Rio made an AWWWWWESOME babyface in 2006 Mexico, but....other than 2006 I've seen nothing (I think, there's a BattlARTS match or two in 2001 or something). Would feel wrong to rate him here or there without seeing some shit 'n' shit, you know?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well let's go strictly WWE career shall we ?

_Top Five_ 

1. The Undertaker
2. Eddie Guerrero
3. Triple H
4. CM Punk
5. Brock Lesnar

_Bottom Five_

4566. MIZ
18. Jeff Hardy
17. Batista
16. Del Rio
15. JBL

I think Miz is in his own class of awfulness TBH.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Top 5 Survivor Series PPVs anyone?

Got all of them downloaded just don't have time to watch them all.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Fun Activity TIME ! Here is a list of every WWE Champion since the "WWE" era began in 2002. Rank them in terms of workrate ;
> 
> Going to post mine when I think about it. Remember this is OVERALL CAREER WORKRATE , not just when they were champion.... AAAAANNNNDDDD GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !


1. Eddie Guerrero
2. Undertaker
3. Brock Lesnar
4. Kurt Angle
5. Randy Orton
6. Triple H
7. The Rock
8. John Cena
9. Sheamus
10. Big Show
11. Alberto del Rio
12. Edge
13. Rob Van Dam
14. CM Punk
15. Batista
16. JBL
17. Hulk Hogan
18. Jeff Hardy
19. The Miz


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BANKSY said:


> Top 5 Survivor Series PPVs anyone?
> 
> Got all of them downloaded just don't have time to watch them all.


1990 has always had a soft spot in my heart. Undertaker's debut & the only year to include the Ultimate Survivor match to boot.

Others: 1987_(original deserves a shout, you know?) _1995, 2000, & 2002 _(a personal favorite) _

Can't go wrong with the majority. I'd wage to say all bring a certain level of fun pardon a few of the recent years and 1999. 1998 to some degree too since it was a one night tournament not exactly filled with lengthy bouts.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> 1990 has always had a soft spot in my heart. Undertaker's debut & the only year to include the Ultimate Survivor match to boot.
> 
> Others: 1987_(original deserves a shout, you know?) _1995, 2000, & 2002 _(a personal favorite) _
> 
> Can't go wrong with the majority. I'd wage to say all bring a certain level of fun pardon a few of the recent years and 1999. 1998 to some degree too since it was a one night tournament not exactly filled with lengthy bouts.


Think I'm probably going to start at 2000 and just work through them chronologically from there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2000 - 2005 are some quality shows, imo. 2006 is very bad. 2007 is solid, 2008 & 2009 are hit and miss, 2010 legit has one GREAT first half and one SHIT second half, 2011 sucks, & 2012 was you'll either like it or hate it.

If you can make some time for the older shows then give those a go too. Like I said, a whole bunch of fun from each of those events.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

1989 is my favourite Survivor Series, just because it had every match as a SS match. Nostalgia plays a big part too. Some epic performances.

Dusty Rhodes, Brutus Beefcake, Tito Santana and Red Rooster vs. Big Bossman, Honky Tonk Man, Rick Martel and Bad News Brown - ***

Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Bret Hart, Ronnie Garvin and Hercules vs. Macho King, Greg Valentine, Earthquake and Dino Bravo - ***1/4

Hulk Hogan, Jake Roberts and Demolition vs. Ted Dibiase, Zeus and Powers Of Pain - **1/2

Roddy Piper, Jimmy Snuka and The Bushwhackers vs. Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect and Fabulous Rougeaus - ***1/2

Ultimate Warrior, Jim Neidhart and The Rockers vs. Andre The Giant, Bobby Heenan, Arn Anderson and Haku - ***

No REAL classics but every match was pretty solid, with the weakest match on paper entertaining me the most. That final stretch with Snuka and Perfect was pretty awesome. Arn Anderson also put in a terrific display in the final match, as did Ted Dibiase in the main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1988 & 1989 deserve mentions b/c it has ARN on both + Tully.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't know about full events, but the massive 10 Vs 10 match with the tag teams in 1988 is a MUST SEE SS match. Goes over 40 minutes and its awesome.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Don't know about full events, but the massive 10 Vs 10 match with the tag teams in 1988 is a MUST SEE SS match. Goes over 40 minutes and its awesome.


Yeah I only first saw this match a year or two ago, fucking brilliant and went on for AGES. Couldn't believe my eyes when I found out who won the match, a nice ending to a superb bout.


----------



## HerbUWF (Oct 21, 2012)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Yeah I only first saw this match a year or two ago, fucking brilliant and went on for AGES. Couldn't believe my eyes when I found out who won the match, a nice ending to a superb bout.


I thought it was a snooz fest when I watched it in 1990 for the first time. only novelty is seeing Dynamite / Mountie in the ring right after their bust up, but even then nothing happens out of the ordinary. In my view, if you watxh this match now for the first time, you'll be dissapointed.

Hell, even the video quality is garbage.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

You can't go wrong with 1999-2006 Survivor Serie's events. My personal favorites are 2001/2002/2003.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Top 5 Series PPVs: 

1. 02
2. 01
3. 96
4. 95
5. 98 (just for entertainment value)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1996 is pretty blah except for Hart/Austin & Michaels/Sid.

I guess that could make up for the rest. I'm not particularly crazy about the entire event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1996 IMO is really good. The opener SS match and Taker/Mankind add to the aforementioned Hart/Austin and HBK/Sid matches. But my favourite SS has to be 2002. 1st ever Elimination Chamber :mark:

Speaking on the subject, which are your top 5 favourite non-WM PPV's ever? 
Mine would be, in no particular order, SummerSlam 2002, Survivor Series 1996 and 2002, Royal Rumble 2000 and (bias here) No Mercy 2006. If not for bias, probably Canadian Stampede instead.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Personally I feel a very underrated PPV was Unforgiven 2004


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I remember purchasing Unforgiven on PPV in '04. Absolutely hated it.

Not one single match I would call good and the most decent match to me on there was the opening tag.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't remember much about UF 04, but looking at the card, the opening tag match, women's match and ladder match all have potential on paper. Kane/HBK could be solid too. Rest looks dreadful or IS dreadful if I remember them right.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh, 04 isn't really good at all tbf. Unforgiven 05 is much more underrated IMO - apart from the TT Title match (which isn't horrible either), every match ranges from watchable to amazing, with the insane Edge/Hardy Steel Cage match being the highlight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR 03 just been posted on my blog . Is Steiner/HHH still terrible, and is Angle/Benoit GOAT worthy? Maybe. Maybe not .

Still can't get over RR 05 that I watched in the early hours this morning. So different from the last time I saw it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I think my top 5 Survivor Series PPV's are 05, 98, 02, 09 and 01. Those are my favorites though. Doesn't necessarily mean they have the best matches. I haven't rated every one since 98 yet and I don't rate stuff before 98. I can't download and it's hard to get that stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*SummerSlam 2006:*
Rey/Chavo - **
Show/Sabu - *1/2
Hogan/Orton - *
Flair/Foley - ****1/2
Booker/Batista - DUD
DX/McMahons - ***
Edge/Cena - ***1/2

Poor SSlam, a terrible dissapointment for the card it had. Though Flair/Foley is ridiculous fun and the final two matches are enjoyable. All the rest sucks ass.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> *SummerSlam 2006:*
> Rey/Chavo - **
> Show/Sabu - *1/2
> Hogan/Orton - *
> ...


Yeah, that Summerslam PPV was a big disappointment. I was only interested in the Cena/Edge match along with the Flair/Foley match due to the awesome build-up behind it. The rest of the card felt underwhelming. 

Speaking of the Flair/Foley feud, I have to re-watch their promos with each other again. Their promos leading to the Summerslam PPV were wonderful. I recall them having a great, intense promo with one another on WWECW but I can't remember when.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I think I've seen Ryback/Hell No vs. Shield 20 times now, it's my 2012 match of the year ahead of Punk/Bryan OTL and Brock/Cena. 

I don't really do star ratings but it would get the full 5, matches like that are I why I love pro wrestling. Just brilliant.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Walter Sobchak said:


> I think I've seen Ryback/Hell No vs. Shield 20 times now, it's my 2012 match of the year ahead of Punk/Bryan OTL and Brock/Cena.
> 
> I don't really do star ratings but it would get the full 5, matches like that are I why I love pro wrestling. Just brilliant.


My personal MOTY for 2012 was Undertaker/HHH. I rewatched it a couple weeks back expected to not be as engaged with it as the drama of whether or not the streak would end is not there. But I enjoyed it so much, great psychology and storytelling. All three men do a fantastic job. Work of art.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It requires BALLS to give Benoit/Angle **** 1/4*.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'VE GOT BALLS THE SIZE OF GRAPEFRUITS.

Seeing my doctor on Monday 8*D.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think it's the lowest I've ever seen that match rated by anyone. BY FAR


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think its the lowest I've seen it lol.

People gonna think I'm crazy given some other ratings I've given in the 04 and 05 RR events .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It definitely takes balls to have unique opinions, lol.

As the poster child for "unique opinion", I know all about that in this forum!


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> It definitely takes balls to have unique opinions, lol.
> 
> As the poster child for "unique opinion", I know all about that in this forum!


That's obvious from your sig :side:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's irrelevant said:


> Yeah, that Summerslam PPV was a big disappointment. I was only interested in the Cena/Edge match along with the Flair/Foley match due to the awesome build-up behind it. The rest of the card felt underwhelming.
> 
> Speaking of the Flair/Foley feud, I have to re-watch their promos with each other again. Their promos leading to the Summerslam PPV were wonderful. I recall them having a great, intense promo with one another on WWECW but I can't remember when.


"We shall bleed to death in Boston". And they were legit close to. They really had a lot of intensity in all of their promos, and in the feud in general. Really great stuff.

But Edge/Cena is easily feud of the year for 2006 IMO. I've watched A LOT of their feud and matches. Edge, alongside Punk, is easily Cena's greatest rival ever. This is how I would rank every match I can remember between both:

New Year's Revolution - N/A (points for shock value and history purpose)
Royal Rumble - **1/2
Mick Foley as guest ref - **3/4
Triple Threat w/HHH - ****
SNME - ***
SummerSlam - ***1/2
TLC - ****1/2
Triple Threat w/Big Show - ***
Last Man Standing - ****1/4

Pretty sure there were more. Anyways, how would you rank the Edge/Cena matches?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TBH, I don't think I've seen anybody put that under ****** . 

*Survivor Series 2012*

Brodus Clay/International Airstrike/ReyCARA vs Tensai/Primo&Epico/Primetime Players : *** ¾*(.5)

Kaitlyn vs Eve : ** ½*(-0.5)

R-Truth vs Antonio Cesaro : *** ¼* (0)

LONG SHITTY AJ-VICKIE SEGMENT (-0.5)

The Big Show vs Sheamus : ***** (1)

Team Ziggler (Dolph ZIggler/David Otunga/Wade Barrett/Damien Sandow/Alberto Del Rio) vs Team Foley (Kane/Daniel Bryan/Kofi Kingston/The Miz/Randy Orton) : ***** (1)

CM Punk vs John Cena vs Ryback : ***** (1)

_Thoughts_

So YEAH....... This show is like the definition of mediocre. The main event matches are all good, but everything feels so rushed and pointless that I have no reason to care anymore about these matches than I should. There's absolutely nothing GREAT here, and definitely nothing that even comes close to CLASSIC , and I think that hurts this show. There's nothing here to really boost this show epically, but there were a few things, namely the Divas match and the long/pointless/shitty/all of the above AJ/Vickie segment that took up a chunk of time and hurt the show for me in the long run.

You have a match like Cesaro-Truth, which is essentially the same match Cesaro's having since he debuted, just more to showcase on a big PPV stage. Not a bad match TBH, just a average little Cesaro showcase that doesn't really contribute anything to the card and doesn't really take anything away from it either.

The two Survivor Series tags were both fun at times, but I felt they fell WAY below the standards of what an elimination tag should be like at Survivor Series. The opener was a nice little surprise due to KIDD , but I felt the talent on the heels team was lackluster and that the match could have been a far better showcase of the up and comers on each end doing their thing. Kidd and Gabriel come out of this looking strong though, so that's a win right there. Good stuff but not up to the Elimination Tag standards that had been set years ago. Team ZIGGLER vs Team FOLEY was a terribly pointless match with some of the worst opening sequence's and paces I've ever seen in my life. Thankfully it picked up and what we got was a very serious match towards the end with Orton going crazy against two heels who wanna take him out. Some of the eliminations felt rushed, but the last 10 minutes of this is AWESOME with Orton playing a great "fuck the world" babyface only to fall apart at the hands of Ziggler.

The two World Championship matches were good. I already talked about Show/Sheamus and the reasons why it wasn't up to par with the original (more restholds and less HITTING, finish wasn't as good) , but the match was still great and I consider it to be the Show/Henry from Survivor Series to the Show/Henry from Vengeance of the series. It's the MOTN and I adore it, it just isn't there compared to the original. Punk/Cena/Ryback on the other hand is a tale of two matches. The beginning of this absolutely SUCKS, and it lasts for a while due to RYBACK'S incompetence. However, this picks up once Ryback is out of the match and it turns into a typical Punk/Cena AWESOME match, complete with an awesome pace, some great false finishes, and the like. Whenever Ryback comes back into the match all you can say is "Oh shit, Ryback's here again...FUCK" as the pace starts to slow down again. It's just such an up and down pace that I can't really describe, but I know one thing ; The ending and the ending spot is fucking BO$$. Four stars for the second half of the match and two stars for the first half means this is a middle of the pack encounter ; Punk's second worst PPV match since CP 11.

So there you have it, Survivor Series 2012. Was it great ? NO. Was it good ? NO. Was it average ? NO. It's weird because the last half of this show isn't bad at all, and the three main events are all good, it's just they aren't good ENOUGH to sustain what should be a major PPV. No show stealing performances (and none that come close) and a few shitfests lead to this being a very mediocre PPV that I wouldn't really recommend to anybody. Watch the last three matches if you're REALLY bored, but there's a ton of better wrestling out there anyways. ***** matches work as a supplement to a true show stealing match, but in no way shape or form should it be the best rated match on a major PPV.

*Overall Score : 2.5*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To go back to an earlier discussion, how would y'all rank all the World Heavyweight Champions since 2002 based on workrate?

Here's the full list:

Triple H
Shawn Michaels
Goldberg
Chris Benoit
Randy Orton
Batista
Kurt Angle
Rey Mysterio
Booker T
Undertaker
Edge
The Great Khali
CM Punk
Chris Jericho
John Cena
Jeff Hardy
Jack Swagger
Kane
Dolph Ziggler (you can either count those 5 minutes or not... KOK didn't with Rey Mysterio & the WWE Title)
Christian
Mark Henry
Big Show
Daniel Bryan
Sheamus
Alberto Del Rio

Not gonna rank them now but all I can tell from the get go is that Benoit tops the list and Great Khali is saving anyone else in sight from being at the very bottom.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Chris Jericho
CM Punk
Edge
The Undertaker
Kurt Angle
Chris Benoit
Rey Mysterio
Shawn Michaels
Daniel Bryan
Christian
Triple H
John Cena
Sheamus (I wanted to put him higher, his 2012 was extremly good in terms of match quality)
Randy Orton
Booker T
The Big Show
Mark Henry
Batista
Jeff Hardy
Kane
Goldberg
Alberto Del Rio
Jack Swagger
The Great Khali


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Crispen wah
The Undertaker
CM Punk
Chris Jericho
Christian
Daniel Bryan
Kurt Angle
Shawn Michaels
Triple H
Edge
Randy Orton 
Rey 
John Cena
Sheamus 
The Big Show
Booker T
Batista
Mark Henry
Alberto Del Rio
Jack Swagger
Jeff Hardy
Kane
Goldberg




The Great Khali

Zigglers "reign" doesn't count to me mainly because the belt was never in his possession...

Top and bottom are easy to figure out, 2 thru whatever not so easy considering how many awesome workers held the WHC


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Don't remember much about UF 04, but looking at the card, the opening tag match, women's match and ladder match all have potential on paper. Kane/HBK could be solid too. Rest looks dreadful or IS dreadful if I remember them right.


It's pretty trashy. Only match really worth seeing is the opening tag.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 WHC workers:
1. Benoit
2. Undertaker
3. Kurt Angle
4. HBK
5. Christian / Orton / Jericho

Bottom 5:
5. Swagger
4. Kane
3. Jeff Hardy
2. Goldberg
1. Khali



Hailsabin said:


> It's pretty trashy. Only match really worth seeing is the opening tag.


I liked the main event too. Don't know what's wrong with it other than the ending.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's crap like the most other Orton vs Triple H matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AHHHHHHHH


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top Five :

Chris Benoit
The Undertaker
Rey Mysterio
Triple H
CM Punk

Bottom Five :

5. Alberto Del Rio
4. Jeff Hardy
3. Goldberg
2. Jack Swagger
1. The Great Khali

Nobody tarnished the World Heavyweight Championship more than Jack Swagger.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Swagger has talent. Khali doesn't. Blame the WWE for the most random and poorly booked World Championship reign. Not Jack.

*WWE Smackdown 1/18/13​*
1) Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston ~ 1/4*


2) Great Khali vs Tensai ~ DUD


3) Team Hell No _(Kane & Daniel Bryan)_ & Randy Orton vs Rhodes Scholars _(Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow)_ & Wade Barrett ~ 1/2*


4) Mike Mizanin vs Primo Colon ~ DUD


5) Kaitlyn vs Aksana ~ DUD


6) Big Show & Dolph Ziggler vs Sheamus & Alberto Del Rio ~ *3/4​

Bleh. Big Show & Sheamus clubberin each other made me mark the match up. It's nothing special at the heart of it. Another lousy show where JBL's commentary was the only real entertainment + another SHIELD promo. Oh, but everyone must youtube the MICK FOLEY HALL OF FAME VIDEO TRIBUTE. :mark: <3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I meant, not Swagger the individual but rather Swagger's completely random reign as World Champion is what tarnished it the most. I can kind of live with Khali being Champion as it at least makes SENSE on some level. 

If Ryback wins the WWE championship at some point within the next year, where do you figure he'd rank ? Is he better than Miz at this point in his career ? Does he suck as BAD as Miz or maybe even worse at this point ? It's too early to tell, but I'd probably have him above Miz at this point simply because his resume with Punk has been damn good, not to mention the role he played in one of the best tags in company history. Granted, most of that has nothing to do with RYBACK , but you'd have to figure that he definitely has the potential to be better than JIZ :lol

Starting a Wrestlemania count-up for the Road to Wrestlemania. Going to be an awesome project where at the end of the list I rank the top 75 matches in Wrestlemania history alongside the top 28 moments, top 28 workers, and so on and so forth. WRESTLEMANIA I COMES FIRST MOTHER FUCKERS. I'm not expecting anything more than a fun blast to the past. HEENAN.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1. Rey
2. Benoit
3. Danielson
4. Michaels
5. Taker
6. Christian
7. Cena
8. CM Punk

I would have Eddie there, but....he didn't win the WHC.  8's an odd number but what the shit. I had to do relative amounts of thinking following that and I'm not up for it. Henry and Show would probably fill out the top 10, though. But maybes. I can't see anyone on the list (unless I didn't look hard enough) that I'd definitely have above both of those dudes.

Also if we're counting Rey for WWE Title on that top 5 I did yesterday, he'd be #1. Hell if you count any world champions in WWE at any point in history he'd only be behind Flair. I think I did that list sometime somewhere.

Ranking the top ___SOMETHING____ of wrestlers who have held a WWE championship of any kind could be fun at some point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Superstars from this week just finished. Here's what I'm in store for:

Kofi Kingston vs Michael McGillicutty
Zack Ryder vs JTG

oh boy


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH BOY. How did I fuck that one up ? 

Here's a interesting question ; how much further can the likes of Cena, Punk, and Bryan move up in the ranks workrate wise in their respective careers ? Basically, how much does X Wrestler need to do in order for you to put them in the same class as Benoit/Eddie/Rey ? Would a few more CLASSICS do the job ? Would it be just non-stop consistency ? Both ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both would be key. Honestly Punk and Danielson are already on route to that level. If not there. Cena, whom I do love, needs to tune his game up on the weekly shows again. Lately he's been lazy as hell when it comes to keeping the calling of spots under wraps. Notice him calling a lot weekly. It's only a minor gripe and when the PPVs come, he always delivers. So at least he comes through when we need it most.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Danielson I could see, but the other two I'm really not high enough on. I really don't ever see them touching that top-of-the-line (for me, obv. "IMO" and all that). I wouldn't have either in my top 100 right now and IDK where they'd place if I were doing a top 200. I wouldn't rank Danielson there either, but he's a guy that I would FOR SURE rank in a top 100 and he's just, IDK, 'different'. Almost nobody in the world ATM could have done what he did that TLC match, and was like a month ago. He seriously may not have hit his peak yet. Have Punk and Cena hit their peak yet? Who knows. But I'm a lot less higher on those two than I am on Danielson and I'm lot less higher on those two than a lot of other people are. Both guys have too much stuff I find "blehh" or just flat out don't like. They can have great matches after great matches and depending on career length could have more great matches than someone like Eddie Guerrero actually did, but there isn't anything in a bell-to-bell match I think Cena or Punk really do better than Eddie did. I hope that makes SOME sense. I've had two hours sleep in the past 36 hours.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

And who knows if one of those guys might surprise us and become that "fine wine" that gets better with age? Look at what the likes of Undertaker, Big Show, Rey Mysterio, and I've heard some arguments for Shawn Michaels that they all became better or at least smarter workers over time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Project how you'd rank these SEVEN guys in TEN years :

John Cena
CM Punk
Randy Orton
Sheamus
Daniel Bryan
Dolph Ziggler
Alberto Del Rio

Don't worry ; I'll remember it and make sure to bring it up 10 years from now when we're all lonely, depressed, and have little to no life outside of these forums


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Danielson I could see, but the other two I'm really not high enough on. I really don't ever see them touching that top-of-the-line (for me, obv. "IMO" and all that). I wouldn't have either in my top 100 right now and IDK where they'd place if I were doing a top 200. I wouldn't rank Danielson there either, but he's a guy that I would FOR SURE rank in a top 100 and he's just, IDK, 'different'. Almost nobody in the world ATM could have done what he did that TLC match, and was like a month ago. He seriously may not have hit his peak yet. Have Punk and Cena hit their peak yet? Who knows. But I'm a lot less higher on those two than I am on Danielson and I'm lot less higher on those two than a lot of other people are. Both guys have too much stuff I find "blehh" or just flat out don't like. They can have great matches after great matches and depending on career length could have more great matches than someone like Eddie Guerrero actually did, but there isn't anything in a bell-to-bell match I think Cena or Punk really do better than Eddie did. I hope that makes SOME sense. I've had two hours sleep in the past 36 hours.


I got all of that. :cool2



Clique said:


> And who knows if one of those guys might surprise us and become that "fine wine" that gets better with age? Look at what the likes of Undertaker, Big Show, Rey Mysterio, and I've heard some arguments for Shawn Michaels that they all became better or at least smarter workers over time.


Undertaker & Big Show for the top nominations there. I mean WOW at how many more matches I adore from each of them over the last few years than I did during the "high point" of wrestling. I think Punker & Danielson had that quality attached to them. Cena's banged up, but that shouldn't mean he couldn't work through it and create something better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's not forget MIZARK "RATINGS" MOTHERFUCKIN' HENRY.

I mean, my god. Was it just me or did he become one of the best character workers in the business seemingly overnight ? WHAT THE HELL DID HE DO TO IMPROVE SO MUCH AND WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE DOING IT. Blows my fucking mind actually.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even as a guy liked Henry prior to 2011, I'm still amazed by it. Glad it happened though. It's why i'm hoping he'll return come Rumble and give us a little bit more before he thinks about hanging it up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched one of the worst matches I've ever seen in my life.

David Sammartino vs Brutus Beefcake at the very first Wrestlemania. I mean UGH, this was just a cheap way to get Bruno on the card to please the traditionalists and to please the MSG crowd. We really couldn't just have Bruno beat up ANYBODY instead of this complete BULLSHIT ? .... It was honestly the most pointless match psychology wise I've ever seen, very sloppily put together, and boring as shit. A few matches into my WRESTLEMANIA PROJECT and I've already got a contender for worst match 

Valentine-JYD sucked balls too. YA KNOW, for being the very first show in a series of the biggest shows EVER, it kind of BLOWS HARD


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Watching through some of Savage's WCW stuff, he was in some horrible shit. I forgot how bad he was booked sometimes. Like his matches against Avalanche, ugh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Their Uncensored match :lol

Let's not forget about Savage's performance one year later against THE ALLIANCE TO END HULKAMANIA in the DOOMSDAY CAGE :lol :lol :lol

Swear to god he wrestled Hogan on Nitro (you can see it on the NWO DVD) in probably the worst singles match of his career though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Superstars 1/17/13​*
1) Kofi Kingston vs Michael McGillicutty ~ DUD


2) Zack Ryder vs JTG ~ DUD​

:lmao @ this show. Commentary team was the worst too. Matt Striker with non-descript white guy from NXT? The absolute shits.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

LOL the Doomsday Cage, totally forgot about that. Hogan especially had some of the worst stinkers in WCW history.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't see how it's going to be possible for any Wrestlemania to be worse than the first one. From an in-ring standpoint, this is probably one of the worst shows I've ever seen so far 

Entertainment wise it's okay due to SHEIK and his awesome pre and post match promos :lol .. "GENE MEAN!" .. :lol :lol :lol

HEENAN IS GOD.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Never understood the love for Angle and Benoit, RR 03. It's good but not goat worthy at all, they've had better matches themselves too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't see how it's going to be possible for any Wrestlemania to be worse than the first one. From an in-ring standpoint, this is probably one of the worst shows I've ever seen so far
> 
> Entertainment wise it's okay due to SHEIK and his awesome pre and post match promos :lol .. "GENE MEAN!" .. :lol :lol :lol
> 
> HEENAN IS GOD.


don't go chanting USA USA. _*crowd chants USA*_ oh GO TO HELL! - Iron Sheik

And I REALLY need to give Angle vs Benoit a rewatch. Perhaps tonight. Need to finish Backlash 2009 while I'm at it and got Survivor Series 2012 on tap to watch too.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> Project how you'd rank these SEVEN guys in TEN years :
> 
> John Cena
> CM Punk
> ...


Probably something like this. 

John Cena - Already has quite a long resume and history
CM Punk
Randy Orton
Daniel Bryan
Dolph Ziggler
Sheamus 
Alberto Del Rio


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH FUCKING HELL. A WENDI RICHTER MATCH. THIS SHOW SUCKS  .

Probably going to be -100 if we go by CAL SCALE standards. I want to go easy on this show so bad but there has already been four matches under two stars by this point. We're currently at a MINUS FOUR POINTS range and there's still a womens' match left. :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton over Sheamus & Danielson? I'd highly doubt it at this rate. Guy might be gone before 2013 ends.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WRESTLEMANIA ONE ; WHERE THERE ARE MORE DUDS THAN MATCHES OVER TWO STARS.

I'd already take Punk over Orton in terms of EXCLUSIVELY WWE work. Punk (in my eyes anyways) has been SO GOOD since 2009 that it's been better than Orton's entire WWE career as a whole. It's almost like how I see Lesnar (GOD) despite him only being around for a very short time. HELL, as a matter of fact I think it's only going to be a small fraction of time before he passes CENA if Johnny keeps up his lazy bullshit.

I just realized that I have two CENA matches in my top 10 WWF/WWE matches ever. The guy is one of the greatest big match workers in history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Vengeance 2007: Night of Champions​*
1) *World Tag Team Championship*
Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch(c) vs Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy ~ **1/4


2) *WWE Cruiserweight Championship*
Chavo Guerrero(c) vs Jimmy Wang Yang ~ **


3) *ECW Championship*
CM Punk vs Johnny Nitro ~ *1/2


4) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Santino Marella(c) vs Umaga ~ DUD


5) *WWE United States*
Montel Vontavious Porter(c) vs Ric Flair ~ *1/2


6) *WWE Tag Team Championship*
Duece & Domino(c) vs Sgt. Slaughter & Jimmy Snuka ~ DUD


7) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Last Chance Match*
Edge(c) vs Batista ~ ***


8) *WWE Women's Championship*
Melina Perez(c) vs Candice Michelle ~ DUD


9) *WWE Championship* - *Five Way Match*
John Cena(c) vs Randy Orton vs Booker T vs Bobby Lashley vs Mick Foley ~ **​

This show...it's something else. Worse of 2007? Probably not with Unforgiven following. If you can believe that. Sgt. Slaughter is the MAN. b/c he was the best part of his match over shitty murdering Jimmy Snuka and the laughable tag champs. Edge vs Batista had some good psychology thrown in. Rest is there. Speaks for itself.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

When people talk of the HHH/Shawn feud they usually call the best match between them the one at Summerslam 2002 but never talk about the three stages of hell match at Armageddon 2002. 

What do you guys think of it? A complete dud, didn't live up to the hype? 

Saw it again this morning for the hell of it, was pretty good. Not perfect but still pretty good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's rather awful. I think more of the Hell in a Cell match than I do that match. Nothing redeeming about it whatsoever. 

Summerslam 2002, December 2003 RAW, & Taboo Tuesday 2004 seem to be the only matches I think they produced as "good". Bad Blood 2004 was okay, but we all know how people feel about that. It's either the most boring match ever or it's decent and only dragged on WAY longer than it should have. (which is my thoughts on it)

Dislike the Armageddon Match quite a bit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/Shawn 3 Stages of Hell >>>>> HHH/Orton 3 Stages of Hell. HHH/Orton is the utter definition of "dissapointment".

Anyways, continuing my 2006 PPV project, moving onto DA BIGGEST STAGE OF 'EM ALL:

*WrestleMania 22:*
Kane & Show/Carlito & Masters - **1/2
MITB - ****1/4
Benoit/JBL - ***1/4
Foley/Edge - ****1/2
Boogeyman/Booker & Sharmell - DUD
Trish/Mickie - ***1/2
Taker/Henry - **3/4
HBK/Vince - ***1/2
Angle/Rey/Orton - ***3/4
Torrie/Candice - DUD
Cena/HHH - ***3/4

Great WM, one of the greatest and most underrated ever.

Gonna watch NYR 06 later. Thoughts on that show?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Wrestlemania 22:
Kane & Show/Carlito & Masters - **
MITB - ***1/2
Benoit/JBL - ***
Foley/Edge - ****1/4
Boogeyman/Booker & Sharmell - DUD
Trish/Mickie - ***3/4
Taker/Henry - *
HBK/Vince - ***
Angle/Rey/Orton - **1/2
Torrie/Candice - DUD
Cena/HHH - ****

Good show, thought the triple threat was a HUGE disappointment considering who was in it.

NYR thoughts:
Flair/Edge: *
Trush/Mickie: **3/4
Lawler/Helms: *
Show/Trips: ***1/4
Benjamin/Viscera: DUD
Elimination Chamber: **3/4
Edge/Cena *******


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> HHH/Shawn 3 Stages of Hell >>>>> HHH/Orton 3 Stages of Hell. HHH/Orton is the utter definition of "dissapointment".
> 
> Anyways, continuing my 2006 PPV project, moving onto DA BIGGEST STAGE OF 'EM ALL:
> 
> ...


Both 3 Stages of Hell matches suck.

*NYR 2006*

Edge vs Ric Flair ~ **1/2

Trish Stratus vs Mickie James ~ **1/2

Gregory Helms vs Jerry Lawler ~ **1/2

BIG SHOW vs Triple H ~ ***1/2 (easy MOTN)

Shelton Benjamin vs Viscera ~ 1/2*

Bra & Panties Gauntlet ~ DUD

Elimination Chamber ~ ***

John Cena vs Edge ~ 1/4*​
For the fun of it...

*WM 22*

Kane & BIG SHOW vs Chris Masters & Carlito ~ **

MITB II ~ ****

Chris Benoit vs JBL ~ **3/4

Edge vs Mick Foley ~ ****

Booker T & Sharmell vs Boogeyman ~ DUD

Trish Stratus vs Mickie James ~ ***1/4

The Undertaker vs Mark Henry ~ *1/2

Shawn Michaels vs Vince McMahon ~ ***1/2

Kurt Angle vs Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio ~ **1/2

Torrie Wilson vs Candice Michelle ~ DUD

John Cena vs Triple H ~ ***​


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Kurt Angle vs Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio ~ **1/2

I;d rater that mach highr bro


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sure that's not just the BOOZE talking?

It's fun, but not at all what I was expecting walking into the match. Live was one thing. Leaving the lasting memory of it only being a 9 minute moves-fest is another.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

sometimes i think you;re just to harsh bro


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Perhaps, perhaps. I did mark for the high spots matches on the show though. Guys falling off ladders and being put through flaming tables were the highlights of the show. Oh, and Michaels murdering Vince. See? I like them gimmick matches. Can't be too harsh there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm soon reaching WM22 so the ratings will be saved for then. But NYR 06:

Edge/Flair - ★★
Trish/Mickie - ★★¾
Helms/Lawler - ★★¼
Show/Hunter - ★★★½
Shelton/Viscera - ¼★
Bra & Panties - 0
Elimination Chamber - ★★★★
Cena/Edge - ½★



KingOfKings said:


> OH BOY. How did I fuck that one up ?
> 
> Here's a interesting question ; how much further can the likes of Cena, Punk, and Bryan move up in the ranks workrate wise in their respective careers ? Basically, how much does X Wrestler need to do in order for you to put them in the same class as Benoit/Eddie/Rey ? Would a few more CLASSICS do the job ? Would it be just non-stop consistency ? Both ?


In terms of legacy, Cena is on par with them. In ring, he would need some more classic matches before I put him up there. Punk can't dream of reaching them as far as I'm concerned... unless he wakes up one day and magically gains talent. Bryan can easily get there but he doesn't have that good of a roster to work with so it's unfortunate in his case.



KingOfKings said:


> Project how you'd rank these SEVEN guys in TEN years :
> 
> John Cena
> CM Punk
> ...


Can't really say in ten years but Orton and Cena are undoubtedly at the top of the list just by their overall careers. If I rank them based on ring skills, it'd be this way:

Orton
Bryan
Cena
Sheamus
Ziggler
Del Rio
Punk

And based on overall career and classic matches:

Orton/Cena (tie)
Sheamus
Punk
Bryan
Ziggler/Del Rio


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Like the Shield, I am here to prevent an injustice. One caused by KoK! Brutus/Sammartino is NOT a contender for worst match ever. In fact, its the BEST match on an otherwise terrible WM card! Dug out an old video script I wrote last year for a big WM special I was planning to do but ended up not having the time:

*The Event*

The show itself... hasn't aged well at all. Though I don't think it was ever really considered to be "good" at all, rather just "big" due to the celebrity presence and show hype combined with the main event. Most of the matches seem completely random and put together for no real reason, with only a couple having any kind of meaning due to a title on the line and/or a celebrity involvement. Let's take a closer look at the show:

The show opens with Mene Gene singing the National Anthem. No wonder they decided to get an actual singer every year after this. Quite possibly the worst rendition ever at a WM... yet the only one I've actually sat through.

The first match is Tito Santana Vs The Executioner. It's happening because... yeah that's a problem a lot of these undercard matches have on this show; there isn't really a reason. Both men are interviewed before the match and they try their best to make something out of this, and it all boils down to Executioner wanting to make a name for himself at the expense of Tito, and he's going to use the injured leg (caused by Greg Valentine) to do it. Match is short, and they work the leg angle into it the best they can with the time they got, and that's that. Nothing harmless, but when you look at what WrestleMania has become now in terms of match build (for the most part, anyway), and what Starrcade already was 2 years before, you have to wonder if Vince and the WWF put any effort into anything on the show not involving a celebrity.

Next match is SD Jones taking on King Kong Bundy. Again, interviews before the match... and there is no reason given for this match. At all. They both just claim they are going to win. But hey, at least this match has its place in WM history. They tell us that Bundy got the win in a record breaking NINE seconds. Even though it lasted around 24 seconds. How they thought anyone would watch the match and honestly believe it was nine seconds is beyond me. Another pointless undercard match.

Matt Bourne Vs Ricky Steamboat is up next. Again... no reason for the match. But hey, when you've got two guys as talented as these guys, they can at least have a good match even if there is no storyline or angle behind it. Again, it's a short match, but solid stuff.

Oh joy, we are treated to a Brutus Beefcake match. At least he isn't main eventing WM like he would do Starrcade a number of years later. His opponent is the son of Bruno Sammartino; David Sammartino. The pre-match interviews give us no real reason for this match to take place, and I'm starting to wonder if maybe there was some kind of reason for all of these matches, but they were just told to say what they plan on doing in the match when they got interviewed and not WHY they were going to do what they were going to do. Which seems pretty stupid to me. This match actually gets a fairly decent amount of time, especially compared to the matches prior to it on the card. I can see people not liking this at all, but I'll go ahead and call it the match of the night. They work a really nice, simple story into the match, with Brutus seeing this as an opportunity to really make a name for himself at the first WrestleMania event by beating the son of legendary Bruno Sammartino. He tries to make himself look good by out wrestling the young kid, which backfires on him a couple of times, so he heels it up and does whatever he can to remain in control and try to win the match. Would have been nice to have an actual finish, but it was done to build to a tag match between Bruno and son David taking on Brutus and his manager Johnny Valiant. Which seems pretty backwards to me. Shouldn't the singles match have maybe taken place on say... the War to Settle the Score and ended like the WM match, so we could have gotten the tag match at WM? That would have been like having the WM main event at the War to Settle the Score and use Mr T and that match as a build up to just a singles match between Piper and Hogan at WM. While a singles match for the title would have perhaps been a better choice, it would have been a waste of the celebrity presence of Mr T and the publicity gained from it. Surly having Bruno of all people in a match at WM would have helped draw more people to watch the event? Wait... forget all of that... did I just say that BRUTUS had the Match of the Night at a WRESTLEMANIA? 

The first title match of WrestleMania now, with Greg Valentine defending his Intercontinental Championship against the Junkyard Dog. Valentine goes from having a Dog Collar match at the first Starrcade event to wrestling the Junkyard Dog. I'm sure that wasn't a coincidence! Having a title on the line here makes this match at least seem important, which makes a change so far. Match isn't particularly great, but it's a decent enough hard hitting contest that was able to leave the crowd happy with the babyface winning but kept the belt on the heel. 

Another title match follows, pitting the Tag Team Champions Barry Windham & Mike Rotundo representing the USA against the Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff representing Iran and Russia respectively. Isn't Rotundo's name actually Rotunda? Surprised they didn't call Barry "Larry" or something too. Match is pretty good, which isn't that surprising given how good Windham and Rotunda are. This is also a pretty historic match, as it features the first title change in WrestleMania history!

The card so far has gone from meaningless random undercard matches, to matches with some meaning simply because a title is on the line, to matches now that have meaning because of a storyline. I'll be the first to admit that I'd rather watch a great match with no build or real meaning than a bad match with lots of build and meaning, but it's both that makes a match truly great in my opinion. So it would have been nice if they had made more of an effort for all their matches rather than just... 3.

The first of these 3 if the $15,000 bodyslam challenge match between Andre the Giant and Big John Stud. If Stud wins, Andre has to retire. If Andre wins, he gets the $15,000! A basic old school stipulation which makes sense in the context of the feud, which is essentially the fact that Stud believes he is the only REAL giant of wrestling and intends to prove it. Only problem is I don't think anyone ever really thought that Andre wouldn't be able to slam Stud. Maybe I'm biased because I'd seen people way smaller than Andre easily slam people around Stud's size on a weekly basis long before I saw this match, but even if I hadn't, looking at a guy like Andre there'd have to be something wrong with you if you didn't think he was capable of it. Ah well, this is a different era that I wasn't even a part of yet as I wouldn't be born for another few years, so it's hard to really get in the mind set of what people might have thought at the time. Match stinks, anyway. Andre wasn't very mobile compared to just a couple of years earlier, and Stud will probably never be brought up as one of the all time great big men in the wrestling industry. Thankfully it isn't long. Ending with Heenan stealing back the money like the weasel he is, is probably the highlight of the match.

The second match with a storyline behind it was the last championship match on the show, Leilani Kai Vs Wendi Richter for the ladies championship. The Fabulous Moolah was in the corner of the champion Leilani while Cyndi Lauper was in the corner of Wendi. With the help of Moolah, Kai was able to capture the ladies championship from Richter at the War to Settle the Score event, so a rematch was made for WrestleMania and gave the WWF another excuse to use Cyndi Lauper and the publicity that would come with her. It certainly isn't a match anyone should go out of their way to watch, but honestly its better than the average diva match we get today. Some stuff looks pretty hard hitting and they pull out some moves that is extremely impressive for women wrestlers to be doing in 1985, and hell, would be impressive today given the sheer lack of talent most of the divas have. Another title change for WM too.

The third match with any real story to it, is THE match with a storyline. The entire event, the company itself, and Vince McMahon's livelihood were riding SOLELY on this match. Had WrestleMania failed, you can believe that this is the match that would get the blame. Afterall, you had the top babyface Hulk Hogan, the top heel Roddy Piper, the top celebrity involved in this whole thing Mr T, then the added attraction of Muhammad Ali being the special referee, Billy Martin as guest ring announcer, Liberace as guest time keeper and the The Rockettes accompanying Liberace to the ring. Cyndi Lauper might have been one of the stars that helped kick start the Rock n Wrestling connection, but it would be Mr T who took it to the next level by not only being involved in the main event angle, but being involved in the main event MATCH. He teamed with Hulk Hogan to take on Rowdy Roddy Piper and Mr Wonderful Paul Orndorff. In the corner of Hogan and T would be Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka, and Cowboy Bob Orton would be in the corner of Piper and Orndorff. Now, I can't for the life of me remember where I either read or heard this rumour, and that's all it is, a rumour, but apparently the main event was originally planned to be a 6 man tag, with Snuka and Orton being involved in the actual match rather than just on the outside. Piper and Snuka had a lot of history stemming from one of the most memorable moments in WWF history, when Piper smashed a coconut over the head of Jummy Snuka on an episode of Piper's Pit, so his involvement wouldn't have been out of place in the match. However, various reasons may have prevented this from happened. The one I heard was that Snuka got in some trouble involving drugs, so his punishment was being removed from the actual match, which also ended up punishing Orton as well. Another one all stems from an incident a couple of years earlier involving Jimmy Snuka's girlfriend dying from suspicious circumstances, and obviously having Snuka in a more high profile role on the show might have been bad for business. Again, this is nothing more than a rumour, and one I wish I could recall where I heard it from. Anywho, onto the match. It's definitely got that "WrestleMania Atmosphere" to it, with the crowd just going insane for Mr T and Hogan and absolutely hating Piper and Orndorff. And then when Orton and Snuka pile into the ring and Ali jumps in to break shit up... wow. It isn't a great match by any means, but the fans are absolutely loving it anyway. Hell, I can easily sit through this match and have a good time as Piper looks like he legit wants to hurt T (and he did hate him for real) and the fans want to legit hurt Piper. This match did its job, and did it well. It was designed to get the WWF more publicity and it did exactly that. Can't fault it for that really. And hey, it isn't even the worst main event in WrestleMania history, so that's something!

Overall, the first WrestleMania did exactly what it intended to do. The wrestling matches and the card itself weren't great, but the publicity from all the celebrity involvement, and Mr T competing in the main event did more for the WWF's success than having a card full of great wrestling matches ever could. Which is both great for the WWF, and a little saddening for wrestling fans. WWF might have been popular and mainstream, but it wasn't that good in the wrestling department most of the time. Luckily, thanks to the success of WrestleMania 1, the company as a whole has managed to survive all these years and grow a hell of a lot, so WrestleMania is seen as a show built around potentially great matches for the most part, and non WrestleMania shows feature far better matches most of the time now too. Personally, I'm not really a fan of this show though. As I said, the wrestling isn't great, and the majority of the show has no story or build to it. But like the main event, it isn't the worst. I'll get into that on a future part.

*Random Thoughts*

One thing I noticed a hell of a lot during WrestleMania, was the use of the term "Pearl Harboured", whenever a heel attacked someone from behind. I understand the term fine, but it just seems weird to me that they would use it, and so often at that. You could probably make a WM 1 drinking game out of it. In 30 years time, can we expect to hear a WWE announcer call a match between HHH Jr and HBK Jr, and when HHH Jr attacks HBK Jr from behind, say he was just 9-11ed? I'm not even American and that just sounds wrong. So why the hell was Pearl Harboured so popular? 

Who the FUCK hired Lord Alfred Hayes? He has a bunch of little segments on the mic in between matches, and jesus christ does he suck. He fumbles all over the place, spends half the time trying to remember what the hell he is supposed to be saying, and screws up enough times to get in an episode of Botchamania. I also watched the TNT show prior to WM, which was an hour show with Vince and Alfred in the studio hyping up WM with the use of lots of video clips and interviews, and Vince looks like he either wants to laugh out loud half the time, or just walk away because the guy is so horrible. Mene Gene was at WM. He did some interviews, so why the hell didn't they just use him? He's more than competent at his job and would have done way better. Hayes made the WWF look bad whenever he was on the screen, and for such a huge and important event like WrestleMania, you would have thought Vince would have made sure everything went as well as humanly possible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've only seen that event in total once. Does that make me a FAKE fan?

I completely blanked on a Steamboat vs Bourne match occurring there. jesus christ you'd think I would remember that one out of all the rest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, makes you a SMART fan . Nobody should really sit through the show more than once. Ain't worth it.

NYR 06:

Trish/Mickie - ***
Helms/Lawler - ***
Show/HHH - ***1/2
Benjamin/Viscera - **3/4
EC - *


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*New Year's Revolution 2006*
Flair/Edge: **
Trish/Mickie: ***1/4 (Trish and Mickie deliever better punches than Sin Cara )
Lawler/Helms: 1/2*
HHH/Show: ***1/2
Shelton/Viscera: DUD
Bra & Panties Gauntlet: * (Surprisingly decent wrestling and BRA&PANTIESAH)
Elimination Chamber: **3/4
Cena/Edge: N/A (Though an argument for * could be made)

Decent show. Trish/Mickie and HHH/Show are very good underrated matches, and the Chamber match is okay, if a bit dull. The MITB cash-in is the most memorable moment of the night, and with very good reasons.

So far, in 2006:
1 - WM 22
2 - No Mercy
3 - New Year's Revolution
4 - SummerSlam

Next watch: Royal Rumble. Heard very bad about that show...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Nah, makes you a SMART fan . Nobody should really sit through the show more than once. Ain't worth it.
> 
> NYR 06:
> 
> ...


Well lucky me. I'll press on through it one more time just to refresh myself of what the original produced. At least the Steamboat/Bourne match for what it is.

Yep, Rumble 2006 is pretty bad. Only the Rumble match itself is worth checking out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've already watched the RR Match itself. Pretty good, about ***3/4. And I've also watched Edge/Cena, which I have at **1/2. About the rest, I don't know, but the card looks horrible: Angle/Henry, Boogeyman/JBL and Mickie/Ashley on the same PPV. YAWN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skip Angle vs Henry and be glad you did. They'll give you something much better come Judgment Day. Now that one was good. And a MUCH better show overall.

lol @ JBL/Boogeyman & Mickie/Ashley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR 06 is on my viewing plans for today, since its where I'm up to with my daily RR Ramblings. 04 will be posted later, I think I set it to automatically post around 5pm (GMT) . Shall be interesting to see what people think to my 05 one when I post that 2morrow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In the meantime, I'll throw in two other shows I've already watched before, and is still well fresh in my memory:

*Unforgiven 2006:*
Morrison/Jeff: ***1/2
Kane/Umaga: **3/4
Spirit Squad/Highlanders: **1/2
DX/McMahons & Show: ***3/4
Lita/Trish: ***3/4
Orton/Carlito: ***1/2
Edge/Cena: ****1/2

*Armageddon 2006:*
Kane/MVP: **1/4
Ladder Match: ****3/4
Boogeyman/Miz: 1/2*
Benoit/Chavo: ***
Helms/Yang: **3/4
Taker/Kennedy: ***1/2
Cena & Batista/Booker & Finlay: **

Armageedon is a very good show. Some solid/decent matches like Taker/Kennedy, Kane/MVP and Benoit/Chavo, but the real must-watch on this one is the 4-Way Ladder Match. Unforgiven is just plain superb. Not a single bad match on a terrific card, with Edge/Cena being one of the greatest TLC Matches in history. Best PPV of 06 here. 

1 - Unforgiven
2 - WM 22
3 - No Mercy
4 - Armageddon
5 - New Year's Revolution
6 - SummerSlam


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need to crack on with my 06 project. Did SD a couple of years ago, half way into Raw now. Interested to see what I think of UF overall since I don't think much to the TLC match (*** at best) and on paper Morrison Vs Hardy sounds sucky as shit . JD is probably the best 06 PPV for me atm, but yeah, still need to finish the Raw side of things (and ECW, but I know their PPV won't exactly rank high :lmao).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah Edge vs John-Boy doesn't do much for me either. I've always had a place in my heart for the Hell in a Cell match though. Recall Orton getting a busted lip b/c Carlito botched a moonsault. What a twat. Thankfully Orton owned him in grand fashion to win. Still can't believe Orton was booked to work vs Carlito on PPV :lmao

Nowadays I can believe it since he sucks. But back in 2006? WHY?

Armageddon is a pretty good show. Horrible crowd though. And I'm not sold on Taker vs Kennedy. Taker's assault at the end is fun, but that's only b/c I loathe Kennedy and a beatdown by Taker is about the best thing to witness. Not much from the match, imo.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley - Intercontinental Championship Match (Hardcore Rules) - Backlash 2004
*

The match itself was great. Randy took some nice bumps, and I was shocked as hell seeing him get thrown in the tacks. This match proved to me that Randy Orton could be something huge in the future. The story of the match was great, as Orton was the punk kid who spit in the face of Foley's awhile ago, and Foley was out for revenge. Orton had to prove himself to Foley during the match, and had to play by Foley's rules. Once Orton did that, it allowed him to pick up the win. ****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2006*:
CW Open: ***
Mickie/Ashley: DUD
JBL/Boogeyman: DUD
RR Match: ***3/4
Edge/Cena: **1/2
Angle/Henry: DUD

And because I watched it a couple of days ago as well:
*No Way Out 2006*:
CW Open: ***1/4
JBL/Lashley: **1/2
MNM/Matt & Tatanka: ***
Booker/Benoit: ***1/2
Rey/Orton: ****
Angle/Taker: ****3/4

No Way Out is absolutely terrific. I had forgot about how good it actually was, given that I said Unforgiven was the best PPV of 06. It's almost as good, Hell it might just be better than Unforgiven overall. JBL/Lashley was much better than it had any right to be, all the other midcard matches are solid/great, and Angle/Taker is 2006 MOTY. Because I can't really decide, I'm gonna tie Unforgiven and NWO as the two best PPV's of 06. Royal Rumble, since I had already seen the RR Match and Edge/Cena, I gave a look at all the rest... oh dear. Terrible PPV here. RR Match and CW Open are good, Edge/Cena is average... the rest is not even worth talking about.

1 - TIE: Unforgiven
1 - TIE: No Way Out
3 - WM 22
4 - No Mercy
5 - Armageddon
6 - New Year's Revolution
7 - SummerSlam
8 - Royal Rumble

Not a good year for the big 4 PPV's at all. WM was great, but SSlam and RR are big time letdowns. Only one more Big 4 PPV left from 06, that is Survivor Series. Thoughts on that show?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series is TRASH. If you hated Angle vs Henry from Rumble enough to give that a DUD _(don't agree with that one bit, personally)_ then you'll no doubt have to hand out a DUD to nearly every match on that show. It's bad. You know it sucks when Chavo Guerrero & a squash match are the best matches on the show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lita's retirement is probably the most remembered moment of Survivor Series 06. That just speaks on how unmemorable the rest must be. (I've only seen Benoit/Chavo and it was okay)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL buying the panties = highlight of the night.

Easily.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

I honestly don't remember about Survivor Series '06, couldn't even tell you a single match on that card.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I want to get into Memphis territory stuff. I have no idea where to start or of any places/uploaders that have several full shows etc. If nothing else, can anyone recommend the best Memphis matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only two show away from having all of my THOUGHTS on the 2009 PPVs. Up next is Breaking Point. Followed by Extreme Rules. I know BP was held in pretty high regard by me last time I watched it last year. As was both lengthy gimmick bouts - Submissions Count Anywhere & I Quit. Fingers crossed they hold up. Extreme Rules I remember as being a mixed bag. It had some high points and some lows. I know Jericho vs Mysterio is where it is at. Been able to relive that one often thanks to owning it via Jericho's DVD set.

btw, looking at C2D mostly but anyone can answer: does anyone know of any good places to download multiple episodes if not full sets of WWE TV years? like every RAW or Smackdown from 2005 or 2006? b/c I missed far and away too much from RAW during that era. Only certain matches and shows from the Summer of 2005. Wasn't able to jump back onto watching RAW full time till about June of 2006.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I remember being disgusted by Raw 2009.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everyone was. I choose to ignore it and look at the positives aka the rest of the company was awesome. PPVs are consistent as hell too. I can count the amount of DUDs on one hand so far. Oh, and more MOTYC happened on TV than PPVs. Don't know if that's exactly a positive when looking from a business standpoint, but it sure as hell is one awesome curve when tuning in weekly and still getting good matches every 3-4 weeks on a Sunday.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> btw, looking at C2D mostly but anyone can answer: does anyone know of any good places to download multiple episodes if not full sets of WWE TV years? like every RAW or Smackdown from 2005 or 2006? b/c I missed far and away too much from RAW during that era. Only certain matches and shows from the Summer of 2005. Wasn't able to jump back onto watching RAW full time till about June of 2006.


I just use XWT. They have about everything I could ask for and most of them come in good speed. Got the entire 04, 05, 06 and 07 from there. (and soon I'll get 97-02) And since it's torrents, you can always tick off the stuff you don't want.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll go give it a look atm. For some reason I have the WORST luck when trying to look up wrestling. Like right now I wanted to view random matches for the fun of it - decided to go for the Jericho vs Mysterio matches on TV and only could find one. Their final WWE match from 1/1/10. The other two are lost on me. ahhh. Didn't try dailymotion yet. Could be there. Sadly that means the quality will probably be trashy.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

How long did it take to download Choke2Death? I'd love to watch RAW from 04 to 06 again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm trying to get the July 2009 - February 2010 ECW shows and my download is going SLOW. I think that's b/c of the lack of seeders on it + being an old torrent. _(one year old to be exact)_

I'm not going to wait 7 weeks to watch some ECW's I can watch on a streaming site just for better quality.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TBHaily, if you ever want a particular match and can't find it, have a look on my dvd site and if I own the show with it on I can rip and upload it for ya.

Posted my RR 04 thoughts on my blog. Terrible undercard, awesome Rumble. The opposite of 1995!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Well I fear it would take me ages to download because my connection flat out SUCKS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well Angle/Henry at RR did have decent psychology, for which I was considering to give it 1/4*. However, the extremely slow pace, the dead crowd and the fact that it ME'ed when it had no right to whatsoever just couldn't keep me away from the DUD.

Just finished SS 2006, and Hailsabin... you're right. It is trash.

*Survivor Series 2006:*
Team Legends/Spirit Squad: DUD
Benoit/Chavo: **3/4
Lita/Mickie: 1/4*
Team DX/Team Rated RKO: **3/4
Taker/Kennedy: ***
Team Cena/Team Show: *
Booker/Batista: DUD

You know it's bad when a First Blood Match at *** steals the show. Especially considering it was the 20th SS. The opener and Main Event were downright horrible. Still better than RR IMO.

1 - TIE: Unforgiven
1 - TIE: No Way Out
3 - WM 22
4 - No Mercy
5 - Armageddon
6 - New Year's Revolution
7 - SummerSlam
8 - Survivor Series
9 - Royal Rumble

Next stops: Backlash and Judgment Day. JD seems to get a lot of praise and BL looks good on paper...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh, I've also seen Team DX/Rated RKO and that's a definite one star for me. TERRIBLE.



Nostalgia said:


> How long did it take to download Choke2Death? I'd love to watch RAW from 04 to 06 again.


I DLed them separately (for instance, one torrent is for 04 PPVs, another for SD 05 and so on) and had 3 active at all times. It really depends on the speed of the torrent. Some go real fast while others are slow. The torrent for all the 06 PPVs took about two weeks of active time to finish whereas SD Raw 04-07 was pretty fast for 90 or so GBs that I was downloading. (excluded everything post-Benoit tragedy and the earlier 04 shows I had seen on youtube before the huge clean-up by WWE)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Yeah XWT is pretty solid for years of wrestling, especially as at the moment most of them are on Freeleach :

This past week i've gotten Raw 99,00,01,04,05,06 & 07 and Smackdown of the same years. some video formats are different but just use VLC player and you're all set (Y)

Ashamed at myself at deleting ECW 06-07 to make more room on my hard drive D:

EDIT: Speeds are pretty good for me, got 00 pack in about a day, other vary from a day to 3-4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stellar. Gonna give it a look right now and see what comes up. (@ Cal)

Oh, and was I the only guy who didn't know that WWE uploaded what seems to be EVERY EDITION OF WWE SUPERSTARS FROM 2010 on youtube? I'm marking pretty hard atm, tbhayley.

EDIT ~ Yep. Survivor Series is god awful. Your favorite match was the same as mine. I actually liked the First Blood match. Which I can't say about the other two Taker/Kennedy matches, quite frankly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Henry only main evented cos of the 'Taker stuff lol.

Backlash 06 is pretty good. Probably the best on the Raw side of things, at least for me currently as like I mentioned, UF probably won't be as good for me .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

mk92071 said:


> I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I want to get into Memphis territory stuff. I have no idea where to start or of any places/uploaders that have several full shows etc. If nothing else, can anyone recommend the best Memphis matches?


There's a Memphis DVD comp that was independently made by a wrestling fan who has a strong reputation for making territory/wrestler comps to cover their body of work. I haven't got his email address but I think a few in this thread may be able to help there, alternatively Big Z and Seabs on here both own copies of the DVD which they sell to anyone who wants to buy.

As for Memphis itself, the territory was more of a brawl orientated company. You're not going to get great matwork or classic NWA wrestling, but rather a more violent match on average albeit with great selling, characters and a tremendous crowd for the big matches. Lawler is the MVP of the territory and is in largely the best matches from its peak. Bill Dundee is his greatest rival and they have a great on and off feud between '83-88 with 2 of the best matches in US wrestling history in the form of the 6/6/83 Loser Leaves Town match as well as the 12/30/85 Loser Leaves Town match.

Dutch Mantell has a stellar series with Lawler in '82, Terry Funk makes for a great rival in the NO DQ and Empty Arena matches in '81, and you can't forget about the Lawler vs Austin Idol/Tommy Rich feud in '87 which culminates in the Hair vs Hair Cage Match with one of the greatest finishes in history.

I'll post the best 30 matches as voted for by people at DVDVR, who watched the Memphis compilation and produced ballots chroniciling the best 150 matches.

1. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) 6/6/83
2. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) 12/30/85
3. Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (No DQ) 3/23/81
4. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Barbed Wire Match) 3/29/82
5. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (No DQ) 3/22/82
6. Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol (Hair vs. Hair, Steel Cage Match) 4/27/87
7. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) 7/14/86
8. Koko Ware vs. Ric Flair 11/18/85
9. Jerry Lawler vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death) 9/7/86
10. Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (Loser Leaves Town) 6/3/85
11. Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (Empty Arena) 4/6/81
12. Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantel vs. Bill Dundee & Buddy Landel 3/10/86
13. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (No DQ) 11/8/82
14. Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs. Pretty Young Things (Falls Count Anywhere) 5/18/84
15. Jerry Lawler vs. Ric Flair 8/14/82
16. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel 10/18/82
17. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Loser Leaves Town) 3/27/82
18. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Texas Death Match) 3/23/87
19. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Double Jeopardy Match) 3/16/87
20. Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (Stretcher Match) 5/2/83
21. Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (Title vs. Retirement) 5/9/88
22. Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs. Dutch Mantell & King Cobra 7/19/82
23. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel 10/25/82
24. Jerry Lawler vs. Rick Martel (Nashville) 10/12/85
25. Ricky Morton & Eddie Gilbert vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) 9/4/81
26. Bill Dundee vs. Sweet Brown Sugar (2/3 falls, Scaffold Match) 6/21/82
27. Ronnie Garvin vs. Randy Savage (Cage Match) ICW 1982/83
28. Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs. King Kong Bundy & Rick Rude 9/10/84
29. Fabulous Ones vs. The Sheepherders (Cage Match) 8/6/85
30. Jerry Lawler vs. Crusher Blackwell 5/4/81


Alternatively, I made a Lawler Appreciation thread a few months ago and posted reviews to some of his finest matches, most of which are in that top 30 list above:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/11717994-post42.html


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I'm a big advocate for Backlash 2006 personally. I'll pimp it. Only match that wasn't particularly good was the women's. That was only due to Trish getting injured mid match however. No fault of the talent involved.

Oh wait, Kane vs Big Show happened. That was a mess. Meh, one wrestlecrap moment didn't kill the show. It is SO out of place when the rest of the event is quite good. Even Carlito's match. Masters did his job well that night.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I might have to check that out. I'm not too knowledgeable on torrents though, only ever downloaded a few things from torrents before, but I know the basics of how they work. I do have VLC Player so that's good. And yeah, I hate how WWE have removed so much stuff from YouTube.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Took C2D's genius advice and decided to download the ECW pack by month. First July, then so on until I finish up with the two weeks for February.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Took C2D's genius advice and decided to download the ECW pack by month. First July, then so on until I finish up with the two weeks for February.


Oh, I always do that. I put the first month on Highest Priority (bitlord) then when it's done, do that for the next month until I'm finally finished. That way if that's the show I'm watching, I can advance as I wait for it to finish downloading.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed. It's what I'm going for right now. The download will speed up I'm sure if I wasn't watching stuff on Youtube right now. So, that aspect I don't mind. Appreciate you using your brain b/c it now prompted me to do what you have done prior. I can now finally finish up the ECW 2009 project I started 2 months ago. I got all the way July and then it just died. It's BACK ON.

As is this new 2010 Superstars project. Gonna try and slam through as much as a I can while I watch various PPVs too. Oh, and keeping up with 2013 all at the same time. YEAH.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Be excited to see your thoughts on Superstars 2010. Masters was on a tear having great matches with Ziggler, Chavo, Mcintyre and numerous other guys. The Goldust/Regal series culminating in a great 13 minute match was an absolute treat and you even get a very good Mysterio/Gallows match as part of the Mysterio/Punk feud.

I personally love the Masters/Ziggler match built entirely around the Masterlock and Sleeper and how both men need to apply their submission to get the win. They build and work to both men's greatest weapon remarkably well for 2010 and its just evidence of how a simple and well worked match will always deliver. Masters comes close to out-bumping Ziggler as well off of memory.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rock vs Triple H steel cage match on Raw is War:* ***1/2

*The Rock & Sock Connection vs The Unholy Alliance on Raw is War:* **1/4

*The Rock vs Kane No Holds Barred match on Smackdown:* **3/4

*The Rock vs Triple H for the WWF title at Backlash:* ****

*The Rock vs Shane McMahon in a steel cage on Raw is War:* **1/2

I'm surprised the New Age Outlaws vs Rock & Sock Connection didn't make it on the DVD. That was better than the Rock & Sock Connection vs the Unholy Alliance by far. Next up, finishing up the other half of disc 2 of The Rock DVD.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> There's a Memphis DVD comp that was independently made by a wrestling fan who has a strong reputation for making territory/wrestler comps to cover their body of work. I haven't got his email address but I think a few in this thread may be able to help there, alternatively Big Z and Seabs on here both own copies of the DVD which they sell to anyone who wants to buy.
> 
> As for Memphis itself, the territory was more of a brawl orientated company. You're not going to get great matwork or classic NWA wrestling, but rather a more violent match on average albeit with great selling, characters and a tremendous crowd for the big matches. Lawler is the MVP of the territory and is in largely the best matches from its peak. Bill Dundee is his greatest rival and they have a great on and off feud between '83-88 with 2 of the best matches in US wrestling history in the form of the 6/6/83 Loser Leaves Town match as well as the 12/30/85 Loser Leaves Town match.
> 
> ...


Thanks a ton. Going to grab a snack and take a look at all this stuff. I'm going to have a busy day in front of me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm really interested in checking out some of Masters' work in his second run. Shame those idiots cut him off because he had improved so much. Things are so ass-backwards in WWE. They pushed him when he was green and bland but when he had improved and showed that he does have talent, they make him work strictly on Superstars (or a jobber whenever he made a TV appearance) and then release him.

Coincidentally, I'm right now on the Raw episode before No Way Out 06 and he has a tournament match with RVD.



Hailsabin said:


> Indeed. It's what I'm going for right now. The download will speed up I'm sure if I wasn't watching stuff on Youtube right now. So, that aspect I don't mind. Appreciate you using your brain b/c it now prompted me to do what you have done prior. I can now finally finish up the ECW 2009 project I started 2 months ago. I got all the way July and then it just died. It's BACK ON.


Just curious but when did I ever make that suggestion? Was it in the past couple of pages or a while back in a similar discussion? I've used this technique for months but I don't recall talking about it out here... or maybe I did!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Be excited to see your thoughts on Superstars 2010. Masters was on a tear having great matches with Ziggler, Chavo, Mcintyre and numerous other guys. The Goldust/Regal series culminating in a great 13 minute match was an absolute treat and you even get a very good Mysterio/Gallows match as part of the Mysterio/Punk feud.
> 
> I personally love the Masters/Ziggler match built entirely around the Masterlock and Sleeper and how both men need to apply their submission to get the win. They build and work to both men's greatest weapon remarkably well for 2010 and its just evidence of how a simple and well worked match will always deliver. Masters comes close to out-bumping Ziggler as well off of memory.


I'm trying not to skip directly to the Masters/McIntyre match right now b/c I recall it being pretty superb. Masters as been on both of these first two editions and it has been fun seeing him work so far. I'm a fan. Carried Carlito to a passable TV match and had a fun bout with an otherwise vanilla worker in Ted Dibiase Jr. That was due to how much of the Masterlock was treated as a threat and with Ted being credible at the time, the fans bought into the action & got behind Masters to pull out the upset.

I'm on 1/14 atm and the main event upcoming is REGAL vs CHRISTIAN. So stay tuned to hear some potential :mark: 

I'm already marking as it is thanks to the Finlay vs Knox match from 1/7. Not very long, but choice for what they gave us. I'm probably going to do a top 10 or 20 list when I cram all of these. 20 seems more appropriate since I KNOW I can come up with 20 matches from these shows that I dig. The final Superstars of 2010 has 3 that legit might make my list. _(Usos vs Tatsu/Young, REGAL vs Smith, & Masters vs Reks)_



Choke2Death said:


> Just curious but when did I ever make that suggestion? Was it in the past couple of pages or a while back in a similar discussion? I've used this technique for months but I don't recall talking about it out here... or maybe I did!


It was earlier today when you said you download them piece by piece. Or maybe you vaguely said it like that and I picked up on it quick. It was kind of subtle, but I took heed of it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Regal vs Smith was exceptional for the time given iirc. Smith gets his leg worked over after some WOS chain wrestling and there's some great selling from him in the close of the match, such as selling it during a northern lights bridge.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've watched that match more times than I care to count. I love it. Smith had some really really bossy singles matches while in WWE. vs Finlay, Regal, & Christian. Love them all.

Oh and speaking of LOVE - Regal vs Christian from 1/14 was superb. The counters. MY GOODNESS THE COUNTERS. I was giddy. Easy front-runner for best of the year. I'm only 2 shows deep. So there could be some contenders to follow :hmm: ***1/2 for it. Think they have one more on ECW before ECW folded. Wonder which trumps the other. Those two men are magicians.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Oh, I've also seen Team DX/Rated RKO and that's a definite one star for me. TERRIBLE.


I love that match. Sometimes it's just fun to watch the heels get decimated. I mean it certainly isn't a classic but it's hilarious. Shawn Michaels eliminating Rick Knox and asking his teammates, "Who was that? Was he in the match?" was awesome. Also Edge and Randy Orton straight up running away when they realized they were left in the match all alone was also hilarious. The match is just a ton of fun to watch. That's probably my favorite from the otherwise lackluster card. 

On a side note DX and Rated RKO were great together. The match they had at New Year's Revolution 07 is a match that deserves to get talked about a lot more. In fact that whole show was really entertaining. The Cena/Umaga match as the perfect set up to their awesome Last Man Standing match and I liked the Nitro/Hardy cage match (pretty sure about this). I mean normally I hate Hardy but it was a gimmick match where he's a lot better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> I love that match. Sometimes it's just fun to watch the heels get decimated. I mean it certainly isn't a classic but it's hilarious. Shawn Michaels eliminating *Rick Knox *and asking his teammates, "Who was that? Was he in the match?" was awesome. Also Edge and Randy Orton straight up running away when they realized they were left in the match all alone was also hilarious. The match is just a ton of fun to watch. That's probably my favorite from the otherwise lackluster card.
> 
> On a side note DX and Rated RKO were great together. The match they had at New Year's Revolution 07 is a match that deserves to get talked about a lot more. In fact that whole show was really entertaining. The Cena/Umaga match as the perfect set up to their awesome Last Man Standing match and I liked the Nitro/Hardy cage match (pretty sure about this). I mean normally I hate Hardy but it was a gimmick match where he's a lot better.





TaylorFitz said:


> I love that match. Sometimes it's just fun to watch the heels get decimated. I mean it certainly isn't a classic but it's hilarious. Shawn Michaels eliminating *Rick Knox* and asking his teammates, "Who was that? Was he in the match?" was awesome. Also Edge and Randy Orton straight up running away when they realized they were left in the match all alone was also hilarious. The match is just a ton of fun to watch. That's probably my favorite from the otherwise lackluster card.
> 
> On a side note DX and Rated RKO were great together. The match they had at New Year's Revolution 07 is a match that deserves to get talked about a lot more. In fact that whole show was really entertaining. The Cena/Umaga match as the perfect set up to their awesome Last Man Standing match and I liked the Nitro/Hardy cage match (pretty sure about this). I mean normally I hate Hardy but it was a gimmick match where he's a lot better.


Oh, it's fun to watch no doubt. It purely isn't a "good" match by any stretch of the imagination. The rest of the card being bad doesn't help things. Oh, and I chuckled at the part I bolded. I made that mistake when watching Mystery Vortex last week, haha.

(Y) at NYR '07. It's a nice wrestling PPV. Collectively all things came together well. I'm a fan. I'll pimp it for what it is.

YES @ getting a Vance Archer match on the 1/21 edition of Superstars. Main event is Jericho vs Kane to boot. That one could be right up my alley too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

mk92071 said:


> Thanks a ton. Going to grab a snack and take a look at all this stuff. I'm going to have a busy day in front of me.


Worth mentioning there's a frequency of cuts/edits in Memphis matches, so a few matches will occasionally jump ahead and skip maybe 2-5 mins of action, in case it happens and you think its just a bad link. Couldn't find all of the top 30 matches, but here's what I came up with:



> Lawler vs Dundee 6/6/83 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrR6kq3GpeQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcx2y4M7Orw
> 
> Lawler vs Dundee 12/30/85 : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi8ol_lawler-vs-dundee-12-30-85_news?search_algo=2#.UPrf8Gfz6_s
> ...


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rock vs Kurt Angle for the WWF title at No Way Out 2001:* ****1/2. 

*The Rock vs Booker T for the WCW title at Summerslam 2001:* ***1/4

*The Rock vs Chris Jericho for the Undisputed title at the Royal Rumble 2002:* ***3/4

That Rock and Kurt Angle match was REALLY good. Angle and Rock were always gold together.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Raw 13/2/06*

HHH/Big Show - ★★★
Chris Masters/RVD - ★★½
Cena/Edge (Foley as guest ref) - ★★★½

- Cena/Edge is pretty good and probably their best non-gimmick match together.



Hailsabin said:


> It was earlier today when you said you download them piece by piece. Or maybe you vaguely said it like that and I picked up on it quick. It was kind of subtle, but I took heed of it.


Ah, I see.



TaylorFitz said:


> I love that match. *Sometimes it's just fun to watch the heels get decimated.* I mean it certainly isn't a classic but it's hilarious. Shawn Michaels eliminating Rick Knox and asking his teammates, "Who was that? Was he in the match?" was awesome. Also Edge and Randy Orton straight up running away when they realized they were left in the match all alone was also hilarious. The match is just a ton of fun to watch. That's probably my favorite from the otherwise lackluster card.


Kinda hard for me when my (second) favorite is with the heels and my least favorite is in the same team as the faces.









Definitely not worth destroying Orton's Survivor Series streak for this shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck that SS match shit. Knox bit was funny. Rest was utterly retarded, shitty and pointless booking. Edge & Orton should have bounced back and made it 2 on 2 between them and DX.

All this talk of downloaded Raws and shit... finally decided to get 2005. I missed a bunch of Raw and SD shows in 05 when I quit watching (thanks to Cena and Batista becoming champs lol). 40GB for just Raw though? Fuck. I'll just download a month at a time and burn them onto a disc to save hard drive space.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Backlash 2006:*
Carlito/Masters: **1/2
Flair/Umaga: *1/4
Mickie/Trish: 3/4*
RVD/Shelton: ****
Kane/Show: DUD
HBK/McMahons: ***3/4
Cena/HHH/Edge: ****

Backlash was a pretty good show. Two **** matches, the edge to the Triple Threat as MOTN. RVD/Shelton was a nail too long at 20 mins, but still a great match. Throw in a very fun ***3/4 match (despite the Godawful storyline - no pun intended), and an average midcard, and Backlash is a solid thumbs up.

1 - TIE: Unforgiven
1 - TIE: No Way Out
3 - WM 22
4 - No Mercy
5 - Armageddon
6 - Backlash
7 - New Year's Revolution
8 - SummerSlam
9 - Survivor Series
10 - Royal Rumble

6 more PPV's to go, next stop is Judgment Day, which seems to get many praise, moreso the Benoit/Finlay match. Looking forward to that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton was at least the final heel on the team. 8*D

Punk eliminating Helms meant they actually had interactions so ~!

Oh, and that Archer match was disappointing. I blame Shelton Benjamin for sucking. Don't know when it happened but boy did he suck the life out of matches. He used to be good too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh CAL, you KNOW that Sammartino-Beefcake match sucked. Stop defending your favorite wrestler in the whole world BRUTUS, and just admit it 

The First Wrestlemania is horrendous and one of the worst shows ever, but I'll be damned if I didn't have a soft spot in my heart for matches like the SLAM MATCH and the main event. The slam match is fucking SHIT, and the main event is okay, but there's just something special about them out there to me. Hogan's cocaine induced promo post match is awesome as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brutus is the Chavo Jr of the 80's. And 90's since he just doesn't go the fuck away.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He Main Evented STARRCADE.

THE BOOTY MAN :hogan


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brutus main eventing Starrcade would be like Miz main eventing WM.

Oh wait.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Butcher, The Man With No Name, The Booty Man, The ZODIAC, The Disciple.

I can handle anything that's considered bad in the world of wrestling. I watched the King of the Road match from Uncensored 1995 & Junkyard Battle Royal from Bash at the Beach 1999 today.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hmmmmm.... How much should that Wrestlemania XXVII match hurt John Cena's reputation of being a great big match performer ? He wrestled in what is my Pre-Wrestlemania Project... WORST MAIN EVENT EVER.

How much of that blame goes to Miz ? ALL OF IT? Cena could have did SOMETHING to make that match a little more watchable... DAMN.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Disciple. LOL

It took me a long time to figure out that The Disciple was Brutus Beefcake as a kid watching WCW. He was in great shape, I'll give him that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn, that Benoit/Finlay match is boss.

Gave a quick rewatch on ONS a while ago...
*One Night Stand 2006:*
Tazz/Lawler: N/A
Orton/Angle: ***
FBI/Tajiri & Crazy: **1/2
Rey/Sabu: ***
6-Person Extreme Rules: ****1/2
Mahoney/Tanaka: *3/4
Cena/RVD: ****1/2

Awesome show. Wouldn't call it better than Unforgiven or NWO, nor than its 2005 predecessor, but still definitely up there, with the 6-Person and Cena/RVD matches being terrific.

1 - TIE: Unforgiven
1 - TIE: No Way Out
3 - One Night Stand
4 - WM 22
5 - No Mercy
6 - Armageddon
7 - Backlash
8 - New Year's Revolution
9 - SummerSlam
10 - Survivor Series
11 - Royal Rumble
TBD - Judgment Day

After JD, there's Vengeance, GAB, Cyber Sunday and December to Dismember left. Thoughts on those shows?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Yeah, it took me several years to find out the Disciple was Beefcake.

Was that the junkyard match where almost everyone who participated got hurt?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Turning on Wrestlemania II now. Piper's opening promo is just fucking :mark:

This CAN'T be worse than Wrestlemania I. It's IM-FUCKING-POSSIBLE. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

woah @ the love for Cena/RVD.

and why am I the only guy to think the Tajiri match is the second best match on the show? Tajiri needs more credit.

EDIT ~ KOK it isn't. It's better. The Funks vs Tito/JYD tag is :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM II is terrible as well. People pimp the tag matches but neither are that good. Especially the one with the Funks. Dory (who for some reason has a different first name) just looks tired. Like, his last days on earth kinda tired. Terry isn't the usual Terry you'd expect. He was probably preoccupied with a sick horse back home or something (points for anyone who gets that reference ).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love it. So i'll fight you for not putting it over.

Nah. Too lazy. I still dig it plenty. Steamboat flying all over the ring confusing Hercules Hernandez was both fun and funny too. Maybe the GOAT commentary team ever helped that. Jesse Ventura, Lord Alfred Hayes, & Elvira. "what's with that scarf on Steamboat's leg? he looks kind of wimpy."

what great analysis.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well... just got done watching the 06 RR. Worse than I remembered it. Based on the CAL SCALE its officially the worst RR event of all time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love the 06 Rumble, but everything else on the card sucks complete balls and I'm not even going to try and attempt to defend that. JBL JOBS TO THE FUCKING BOOGEYMAN. FUCK. SHITTY DIVAS MATCH. CRUISERWEIGHT OPEN. ANGLE VS HENRY. EDGE VS CENA. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

We get IRONMAN Trips/Rey. That makes the 2006 Royal Rumble worth it DAMNIT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Royal Rumble 2006 is so bad that I haven't even bothered trying to watch the Rumble on it. It's got a horrible stigma attached. One match show just like Royal Rumble 2004. Don't know which I hate more. Both SUCK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The 04 Rumble match alone makes the whole PPV worthy of having. Can't say the 06 Rumble is as good to make up for the rest of the terrible card. JBL/Boogeyman was unforgivably bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mickie vs Ashley was the worst of the worst on that show. Rumble 2004, yikes take your pick at that undercard. I gave a DUD to nearly everything there. Including an Eddie Guerrero match. That's how bad that event is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah 04's RR match makes up for the shitty card no doubt. 06 doesn't have a good undercard at all and the RR match is average.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania II has been fucking HORRENDOUS so far. Not quite as bad as the first, but I still have to sit through a BOXING match and a ton of other shit. Always liked the Hogan/Bundy cage match for some reason because it's a typical Hogan bread and butter match.

I can't wait to get through this Wrestlemania so I can get to THREE and see if Savage-Steamboat deserves to stay on my FIVE STAR list.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RR 04's undercard is still better than 06's IMO (though both are terrible). And at least, 04 does have an excellent LMS Match and one of the greatest RR Matches ever. 06 has a pretty good RR Match, a decent CW Open, and that's it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah 04's undercard is overall better (still sucks balls though, don't care for the LMS match at all). But it really only comes down to the Rumbles and 04's absolutely obliterates 06's. And its still not even the best, nor does it make my top 5!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Judgment Day 2006:*
MNM/Londrick: ***3/4
Benoit/Finlay: ****1/4
Melina/Jillian: *3/4 (Credit where's due, they actually tried out there)
Helms/Crazy: **1/4
Angle/Henry: **3/4
Booker/Lashley: **3/4
Taker/Khali: DUD
Rey/JBL: ***1/2

JD was quite good. Gotta believe the hype for Benoit/Finlay - a vastly underrated technical masterpiece there. MNM/Londrick is also great, and Rey/JBL is very good. The rest of the midcard is pretty solid, with every match exceeding expectations (except Helms/Crazy, which dissapointed me). Oh and yes, Angle/Henry is MUCH better than their RR DUD.

1 - TIE: Unforgiven
1 - TIE: No Way Out
3 - One Night Stand
4 - WM 22
5 - No Mercy
6 - Armageddon
7 - Judgment Day
8 - Backlash
9 - New Year's Revolution
10 - SummerSlam
11 - Survivor Series
12 - Royal Rumble

Up next: Vengeance. Seems a good watch, I saw RVD/Edge and have that at ****. The rest seems good too (except Umaga/Eugene and the Kane match).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> Mickie vs Ashley was the worst of the worst on that show. Rumble 2004, yikes take your pick at that undercard. I gave a DUD to nearly everything there. Including an Eddie Guerrero match. That's how bad that event is.


I disagree. JBL/Boogeyman was a two minute, almost squash match for Boogeyman. Yeah, he beat a former WWE Champion (for 10 months!) completely clean like it was your normal TV squash. At least with the divas match, Ashley tried to keep up with Mickie even if it was still boring as fuck. The best part of Boogeyman/JBL was Boogeyman's entrance and his pyro looks cool, lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Trips/HBK Last Man Standing isn't good at all. It's a fucking weird match where they feel each other out for the first 90 percent of the match and then we go straight to the finish. Some of the poorest structure I've ever seen from what was supposed to be a BIG TIME EPIC MATCH OMG. The LMS is better than the ARMAGEDDON match, but I like the Armageddon match ALOT more as it's just mindless, stupid violence.

Don't get me wrong, the Armageddon match isn't good at all, I'd have it at like **** , but it terms of sheer entertainment value I could watch it about 50 times and never get sick of it. Just one of those ridiculous matches


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Pre-Vengeance/GAB/CS/D2D Top 10 best PPV matches of 2006:



> 1. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out
> 2. Londrick vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor, Armageddon
> 3. Mick Foley vs. Edge, WrestleMania 22
> 4. Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven
> ...


And the 10 worst:



> 1. MVP vs. Jobber, No Mercy
> 2. JBL vs. The Boogeyman, Royal Rumble
> 3. The Boogeyman vs. Booker T & Sharmell, WrestleMania 22
> 4. Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WrestleMania 22
> ...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I disagree. JBL/Boogeyman was a two minute, almost squash match for Boogeyman. Yeah, he beat a former WWE Champion (for 10 months!) completely clean like it was your normal TV squash. At least with the divas match, Ashley tried to keep up with Mickie even if it was still boring as fuck. The best part of Boogeyman/JBL was Boogeyman's entrance and his pyro looks cool, lol.


2 minutes of fuckery doesn't come off as bad as 7 minutes of fuckery in my eyes. JBL bounced back and won the US Championship come WrestleMania. No harm, no foul there.

Not much of Triple H vs Michaels I care about except for the same 3 matches: Summerslam 2002, RAW 2003, & Taboo Tuesday 2004.

Oh and guys hell must have froze over. That or Evan Bourne's awesomeness is even greater than I thought. I just watched a wildly fun Carlito match on the 2/4/10 Superstars. Bourne carried it the entire way - nonetheless it was something to behold. Probably was Carlito's best match in 3 years up till that point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only HBK/HHH match I care about is the Raw 03 one. And I don't think that is as great as most other peoples do. I'd put Jericho/HBK from earlier in the year above it as far as TV matches on Raw 03 go.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And for those looking for good Superstars matches, I'd seriously recommend the batshit insane 6-Man Tag Team Match with The Usos & Trent Baretta vs. Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel & Heath Slater. It's just plain amazing.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I really liked Carlito when he debuted in 2004 against John Cena. And I liked him up until to 2006, he was at his absolute peak in the New Year's Revolution 2006 Chamber match, but after 2006, I started to not care for him as much, probably because they started booking him worse, but they also ruined his character too, and as a big character mark, I don't like it when they fuck up a character. He should of always stayed heel. By 2008/2009 I didn't care for him at all, didn't like his tag team with Primo, and his matches with Hornswoggle were just fpalm

Miss this Carlito though:














From a match quality standpoint though, I don't remember any great Carlito matches, but I don't remember any real bad ones. I thought he was a alright in-ring talent, but I was much more invested in his character (at least when it was good from 04 to 06) than his matches. For me it's always a good character > workrate.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> And for those looking for good Superstars matches, I'd seriously recommend the batshit insane 6-Man Tag Team Match with The Usos & Trent Baretta vs. Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel & Heath Slater. It's just plain amazing.


Yep. That one is a whole bunch of fun.

I've never liked Carlito. Poor worker and a blah character. The tags with Primo were probably the highlight of his career now that I look at it. Him and good matches were very few and far between unless he was carried much like how he was in the bout I just saw vs Bourne.

Superstars 2/11/10 time. Christian vs Zack Ryder on this should be quality. Jack Swagger vs Santino Marella to start? Oh no. DOLPH Ziggler vs....JTG to main event? Dolph is the man. JTG? Oh boy. Don't know what Dolph can get out of him. I'll see soon.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The RAW 2003 match is the golden standard of their series for sure. As a matter of fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that in my eyes it's probably the greatest singles match in RAW history, better than HBK/Cena and all that bullshit. Need to rewatch Owen/Davey Boy BADLY. Still think Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/Hunter is the best tag in company history and also the greatest MATCH in the history of Monday Night Raw. 

TRIPLE H. :hhh


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The RAW 2003 match is the golden standard of their series for sure. As a matter of fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that in my eyes it's probably the greatest singles match in RAW history, better than HBK/Cena and all that bullshit. Need to rewatch Owen/Davey Boy BADLY. Still think *Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/Hunter is the best tag in company history* and also the greatest MATCH in the history of Monday Night Raw.
> 
> TRIPLE H. :hhh


I know opinion is opinion, and I love the Powertrip/Austin & HHH match too, but I would say Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Rey from No Mercy 2002 beats that.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Okay, I used to think this year was abysmal but, taking WCW out of the mix, wrestling in 2000 was pretty darn epic, with a few minor exceptions.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

_*Smackdown 17/2/2006*_

Rey Mysterio vs Sylvan - ★★¼
Boogeyman vs Orlando Jordan - 0
Gregory Helms vs Scotty 2 Hotty - ★★
Finlay/JBL vs Chris Benoit/Bobby Lashley - ★★¼
Matt Hardy vs Simon Dean - ★¾
Undertaker/Kurt Angle vs MNM/Mark Henry - ★★¾

A rather fun show with some bad matches and a couple of decent parts. ON TO NO WAY OUT!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I've never liked Carlito. Poor worker and a blah character. The tags with Primo were probably the highlight of his career now that I look at it. Him and good matches were very few and far between unless he was carried much like how he was in the bout I just saw vs Bourne.


I believe you mentioned earlier in this thread that you missed quite a bit of RAW/Smackdown from 05 to 06? Well Carlito was pretty good back then imo, you missed his best stuff, and if you're just judging him from his work from later years then I could understand why you would think he was bad. 

Edit found the post:


Hailsabin said:


> btw, looking at C2D mostly but anyone can answer: does anyone know of any good places to download multiple episodes if not full sets of WWE TV years? like every RAW or Smackdown from 2005 or 2006? b/c I missed far and away too much from RAW during that era. Only certain matches and shows from the Summer of 2005. Wasn't able to jump back onto watching RAW full time till about June of 2006.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2000 is the GOAT year for WWE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alot of people share that sentiment, and I heard a ton of hype about the match but when I eventually watched it, all I could say was "this is it?". I mean, don't get me wrong... The match is AWESOME... But best WWE tag ever ? I think it's a pretty damn big stretch, and it's just my opinion. NOBODY probably agrees with me on that one but whatever 

It MIGHT be in my top 7-10 tags in company history, but I'm not entirely sure. Off the top of my head I can think of four tags I would consider to be better by a nice margin (97 RAW, 01 RAW, Harts/Steiners WF, Rockers/Brainbusters 89) and I'm sure there's a few more that I'd put above it to be honest.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Actually laughing at D'Lo Brown as a part of the Godfathers Pimp fiasco. D'LO FUCKING BROWN!

Man, in those days you could be Evan Bourne and get a John Cena reaction.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

2005 is my favorite WWE year personally.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Power Trip Vs Jericho & Benoit... good yes. Great? Yeah sure. GOAT Raw match? NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE. TAG MATCH? IN WWE... NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE. OF ALL TIME? ITS LIKE COMPARING HBK/TAKER HIAC TO BOSSMAN/UNDERTAKER HIAC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I believe you mentioned earlier in this thread that you missed quite a bit of RAW/Smackdown from 05 to 06? Well Carlito was pretty good back then imo, you missed his best stuff, and if you're just judging him from his work from later years then I could understand why you would think he was bad.
> 
> Edit found the post:


For some reason I've actually seen everything Carlito pumped out from 2005 on RAW. I don't know how, but I have. Not on the early 2006 stuff other than a few matches here and there. I assure you, I'm not a fan. In fact I like to think of myself as one of the biggest who really, really disliked him and his work. His bad attitude was laughable. Only his fault he got buried by Trips on PPV. Was waiting for the day he'd get his release, haha.

Oh, and without a doubt 2000 is the best year in the history of the WWF/WWE. The year was so strong even Sunday Night Heat was a red-hot program.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well to me (and to most people who watched it) it pretty much represented what the Smackdown Six were all about. SD in 2002 was must-see TV, with constant amazing matches always popping out out of the SD Six - some who stick out the better are the vastly underrated Triple Threat with Rey, Angle and Benoit, as well as the No Mercy 2002 2 out of 3 Falls rematch - and the tag at NM was these guys at their very best. Insane fast paced tag action right here, baby.

The Powertrip vs Benoit/Jericho match is my 2nd favourite WWE tag match ever, though, followed by Austin & HBK vs Owen & Bulldog from Raw in 1998, Harts/Steiners Wrestlefest, and the Hart Foundation vs Brain Busters match from SummerSlam 1989.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

:lmao Hardcore Holly comes out at WrestleMania 2000, crowd cheer loudly and then realize it's only Hardcore Holly and not Crash and quickly stop cheering.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao the 07 RR is already ahead of the 06 RR on the CAL SCALE after the first match.

Christian/Kane Vs Regal/Zeke ECW 2010 is a hugely underrated and forgotten tag match. Love the absolute fuck out of it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Vengeance 2006:
*Angle/Orton: ***
Umaga/Eugene: 1/4*
Flair/Foley: **1/2
Shelton/Morrison/Carlito: ***3/4
RVD/Edge: ****
Kane/Fake Kane: 1/2*
Cena/Sabu: ***1/2
DX/Spirit Squad: ***

Pretty good show. Most of Raw PPV's in 2006 were good, and this was no exception. RVD/Edge is awesome, and the Triple Threat is yet another 06 PPV gem. Nothing absolutely horrendous in this show - hell Umaga/Eugene was fun for what it was. And Kane/Fake Kane was poor but they still deserve a bit for actually putting an effort.

1 - TIE: Unforgiven
1 - TIE: No Way Out
3 - One Night Stand
4 - WM 22
5 - No Mercy
6 - Armageddon
7 - Vengeance
8 - Judgment Day
9 - Backlash
10 - New Year's Revolution
11 - SummerSlam
12 - Survivor Series
13 - Royal Rumble

3 PPV's left. The Great American Bash, Cyber Sunday and DECEMBAH TO DISMEMBAH. A night of Wrestlecrap then


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> For some reason I've actually seen everything Carlito pumped out from 2005 on RAW. I don't know how, but I have. Not on the early 2006 stuff other than a few matches here and there. I assure you, I'm not a fan. In fact I like to think of myself as one of the biggest who really, really disliked him and his work. His bad attitude was laughable. Only his fault he got buried by Trips on PPV. Was waiting for the day he'd get his release, haha.
> 
> Oh, and without a doubt 2000 is the best year in the history of the WWF/WWE. The year was so strong even Sunday Night Heat was a red-hot program.


Yeah I've heard about his bad attitude and lazy work ethic. It was the reasoning behind promos like this:






So fair enough if they book him worse for it, his fault, but having him job to Hornswoggle? Bit too much imo. By the time he got released I just didn't care. Carlito's one of those guys who I only cared for a few years of his career, along with guys like MVP (MVP was pretty good from 07 to 08, after that I didn't care for him as much).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Remember when Carlito came out and cut that passionate promo on Cena? They got buried and we pretty much never saw him again?

:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, MVP is a great name to group with him. I actually was high on MVP during his first year within the company. After that I was done. Noticed how bad he was in the ring too, then he went face eventually? Yuck. Didn't work.

@Cal - I love the Regal/Jackson vs Christian/Kane southern style tag from ECW in 2010. I didn't forget.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

This one Cal?








Hailsabin said:


> Yep, MVP is a great name to group with him. I actually was high on MVP during his first year within the company. After that I was done. Noticed how bad he was in the ring too, then he went face eventually? Yuck. Didn't work.


Agreed. Couldn't get to him as a face at all. 

Also what to people think of a potential MVP return? There were rumors going around that he might return to the WWE.

If they bring back this MVP I might like it:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, that's nothing compared to how buried Carlito was at Unforgiven 07 :hhh

Because I'm almost done with my 2006 PPV project, need a lil bit of help: what do you think it's better? Unforgiven 06 or No Way Out 06?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, that's the promo.

UF or NWO? Well since I don't like the TLC match but adore Undertaker/Angle and Orton/Rey, I saw NWO and its not even close .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

you can so tell that's a shoot too b/c he doesn't even use his fake accent :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gettin a Finlay/Regal match on TGAB :mark:
Too bad they're both heels at the time, the crowd is bound to be dead 

Cal, I don't see why you don't like the TLC Match, but I too love Taker/Angle and Rey/Orton, my consideration for NWO is growing every waking minute


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hate Cena and Edge's chemistry in general and I'm not the biggest fan of spot fests. And they didn't even have a good spot fest .


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> I really liked Carlito when he debuted in 2004 against John Cena. And I liked him up until to 2006, he was at his absolute peak in the New Year's Revolution 2006 Chamber match, but after 2006, I started to not care for him as much, probably because they started booking him worse, but they also ruined his character too, and as a big character mark, I don't like it when they fuck up a character. He should of always stayed heel. By 2008/2009 I didn't care for him at all, didn't like his tag team with Primo, and his matches with Hornswoggle were just fpalm
> 
> Miss this Carlito though:
> 
> ...


Carlito was AWESOME on Smackdown. His feud with John Cena definitely put him on the map. I always thought he should have been kept on Smackdown which is where he shined. Even in his tag team run with Primo, he shined on Smackdown. On Raw, they never had a clue what to do with him. It's a shame too because he could have shined on Raw as well but was never given a chance to. When he turned heel again in 2007, I saw it has a perfect opportunity for him to get elevated into the WWE title picture. Boy did they pass up a great opportunity. 

WWE dropped the ball on Carlito big time. He had loads of potential but was never utilized.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Chester McCheesetron! :lmao - How did I forget about this gold?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

IMO they have great chemistry and they had a good spotfest 

UF isn't all about the TLC Match though. I really enjoyed the HIAC match too, as well as Lita/Trish, Orton/Carlito and Jeff/Morrison (it has great psychology before you ask )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You like the TLC match. I cannot take you opinion seriously with matches like Hardy/Morrison and Carlito/Orton 8*D.

But seriously, I'd have to watch UF before I can really say which is better. But not liking the main event will likely mean I wouldn't think it was better than NWO regardless of the undercard.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Gettin a Finlay/Regal match on TGAB :mark:
> Too bad they're both heels at the time, the crowd is bound to be dead
> 
> Cal, I don't see why you don't like the TLC Match, but I too love Taker/Angle and Rey/Orton, my consideration for NWO is growing every waking minute


Crowd did crap on it. No worries, it still was good. ***1/2.

My answer on the NWO or Unforgiven 2006 debate is this - Unforgiven has the more favorable undercard for me, but NWO has two great main events that I say trump everything on Unforgiven. Think I'd prefer HIAC over Orton/Mysterio by a hair, but Undertaker vs Angle tops it all. Don't like the TLC much either, so there you go.

TLC ~ ***
HIAC ~ ***3/4 (a rewatch could change, I do love the match no matter what)
Orton vs Mysterio ~ ***3/4
Undertaker vs Angle ~ ****1/2

So curve wise it goes towards NWO. Even though the undercard was only solid at best and I hated Benoit/Booker and FUCK that crowd. They were only there to cheer Orton and go APE for Undertaker vs Angle.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You dislike the TLC Match. I can't take your opinion seriously either 

JK, indeed it really comes down to the undercard between the two and I'd like to say UF has the better undercard, but NWO is just that damn good as well... fuck it, NWO is best PPV of 06 as of now :avit:

Kinda dissapointed by Regal/Finlay at TGAB, as expected


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I am big fan of Finlay/Regal.

GAB card was screwed over by a bunch of people having "elevated enzymes" and couldn't compete. I have no idea what that is or why it prevented them from wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Regal vs Finlay delivered. A bad crowd can't hurt a match that good.

Lashley actually made sense on that PPV for once. Didn't understand why he couldn't work. Still to this day we all wonder that too. Not like they were ill or incapable of actually working a match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm not sure if Lashley's presence would bring a lot to an otherwise very solid (but dissapointing thanks to a terrible crowd) match between two of the in-ring greatest ever, but I agree in that I see no reason why he couldn't work the PPV.

Same for Khali - for once in a lifetime, I'd actually take his presence in the Punjabi Prison Match with Taker over Big Show's.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looked up what the fuck elevated enzymes could mean and found this:

The most common cause of high enzyme levels are medications, such as statin drugs used to control cholesterol and over-the-counter pain medications, including acetaminophen. Other common causes are hepatitis A, hepatitis B, hepatitis C and obesity.

So I guess WWE were just being careful by pulling them off the card until they determined exactly what the cause was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Big Show...and it was a totally terrible match up. I blame the gimmick. Every other time they duke it out it usually is the BEST.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked it. Under *** but I enjoyed it. Gimmick was terrible though. And hey, doubt Khali could have had a match anywhere near as good as it was with Show replacing him lol .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I see why the WWE wanted to be careful, but if the guys were in shape and ready to work the show, I guess they could. And speaking of which...

*The Great American Bash 2006:*
Londrick/Pitbulls: ***
Finlay/Regal: ***1/4 (Very good but hurt by a terrible crowd)
Helms/Matt: **1/2
Taker/Show: 3/4* (Would be a DUD if not for the deep bladejobs )
Bra & Panties: 1/2*
Batista/Kennedy: *1/4
Rey/Booker: ***1/4

Meh. Better than the horseshit that were the 04 and 05 GAB PPV's, that's for sure. It had a very good start, but after Helms/Matt, it all fell downhill from there. Finlay/Regal is a great technical match, but it fails to be **** as it righfully deserves because of a terrible crowd. Londrick/Pitbulls and Rey/Booker are good, Helms/Matt is decent, rest is horrible.

1 - No Way Out
2 - Unforgiven
3 - One Night Stand
4 - WM 22
5 - No Mercy
6 - Armageddon
7 - Vengeance
8 - Judgment Day
9 - Backlash
10 - New Year's Revolution
11 - SummerSlam
12 - The Great American Bash
13 - Survivor Series
14 - Royal Rumble

Two more shows. Unfortunely, we're talking about Cyber Sunday 06... and December To Dismember. Goodbye cruel world


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Londrick/Pitbulls - ***1/4
Finlay/Regal - ***1/2
Helms/Hardy - ***1/2
Taker/Show - **3/4
Kennedy/Batista - ***1/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cyber Sunday 06 looks horrible, good GAWD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think I know a single match on the Cyber Sunday card. Would prefer it this way until I get there. Now it's NO WAY OUT time! Excited for the three main events.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I assure you, No Way Out is incredible. Cyber Sunday... so far, not so incredible.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> Oh, it's fun to watch no doubt. It purely isn't a "good" match by any stretch of the imagination. The rest of the card being bad doesn't help things. Oh, and I chuckled at the part I bolded. I made that mistake when watching Mystery Vortex last week, haha.
> 
> (Y) at NYR '07. It's a nice wrestling PPV. Collectively all things came together well. I'm a fan. I'll pimp it for what it is.
> 
> YES @ getting a Vance Archer match on the 1/21 edition of Superstars. Main event is Jericho vs Kane to boot. That one could be right up my alley too.


Orton and Edge at that point in time were my two favorite guys on the WWE roster. Yet I still loved watching them and their team get their asses kicked. Also I try really hard to not distinguish between good and fun. When I rate things I just base it off how much I enjoyed the match. The Survivor Series match was 10-15 minutes long I think and I enjoyed almost all of it immensely. 



KingOfKings said:


> Oh CAL, you KNOW that Sammartino-Beefcake match sucked. Stop defending your favorite wrestler in the whole world BRUTUS, and just admit it
> 
> The First Wrestlemania is horrendous and one of the worst shows ever, but I'll be damned if I didn't have a soft spot in my heart for matches like the SLAM MATCH and the main event. The slam match is fucking SHIT, and the main event is okay, but there's just something special about them out there to me. Hogan's cocaine induced promo post match is awesome as well.


I really don't have a soft spot for the first Mania. I know it was a big deal and everything but it just seems like it's a house show at MSG that has Mr. T in the main event and some other celebrities. It wasn't really until WM II that they started turning it into something more than just a big show at MSG.



Big Z said:


> I liked it. Under *** but I enjoyed it. Gimmick was terrible though. And hey, doubt Khali could have had a match anywhere near as good as it was with Show replacing him lol .


Khali had a good match inside the Punjabi Prison with Batista. I have no idea how it's even possible. The fact that they had a good match is the most improbable thing that I can think of. I can't think of a match that looks that bad on paper and ends up being so good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Londrick/Pitbulls - ***1/4
> Finlay/Regal - ***1/2
> Helms/Hardy - ***1/2
> Taker/Show - **3/4
> *Kennedy/Batista - ***1/4*


CRAPPPPPPPPPPP

I'll do my most...unbearable type post right now just to get that point across. Utter garbage match. Only good part was Kennedy kicking Batista's face off for being MAD that he got a chunk of his skull knocked out.

And Taker vs Show is a DUD for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Agreed with Hailsabin. Except for the Taker/Show being a DUD match - that got a 3/4* for the Punjabi Prison's cool visuals and the bloodbath between both men.

The Batista/Khali Punjabi Prison was MILES better than this one though. And to say a Batista/Khali match is much better than a Taker/Show match is something beyond imagination.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

yeah, I'm at a total loss for Batista/Khali working. Like HOW did that manage to happen?

It's a question that can't be answered.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista managed to get something decent out of KHALI. That alone makes him a good wrestler. I went into the match expecting something to laugh at because there was a post here jokingly talking about how boring it was and instead, I ended up enjoying it!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Batista also eventually had a good match vs Kennedy too come Rumble 2007. BIG DAVE.

He sucked so much at first though, haha. Wasn't really until Taker that he found his niche among the main events. Granted some following were hit and miss.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

big Dave


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

If you put Khali into his own element like a Punjabi Prison chances are it won't be too bad. I'm one of the few who thinks the Punjabi Prison match concept is cool and should be brought back even if it's updated. The whole No Mercy PPV was decent and imo the best PPV of 2007 despite the MVP/Hardy crap.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BATISTA. :vince

vs TRIPS @ MANIA, BACKLASH, AND ESPECIALLY IN DA CELL.

BIG DAVE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

but Mania & Backlash matches stink :hmm:

HELL IN A CELL though. Absolute magic that night.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

My favorite Batista match was his Hell in a Cell match with Triple H. Vengeance 2005 was a really good PPV imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've watched Vengeance 2005 soooooooo much. I might be the only guy here, but I've always marked for a certain JR line on that event. 

"A SLAM DUNK OF A CHOKESLAM"

Following Kane owning Edge to win his match. Awesome stuff. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Don't recall that Batista/Khali Punjabi Prison match at all. Checking it out right now!

Oh as for Batista matches, vs Cena WM 26 is one of his best performances. When I was watching Mania 26, I actually didn't bother to watch the match :shocked: 

I know why though. Back then I started to discover and learn and hear more about technical wrestling and I thought it was the greatest thing since slice bread. So from the moment I saw Batista and Cena lock up, i was like "Ha ha aha ah, Cena and Batista actually trying to get technical. Fuck this shit! They both suck and can't wrestle!

Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

Anyway, managed to watch the match about 2 years later and it was just epic. A well deserved ***1/2 snowflakes. I might probably even up the rating if I go and re-watch it.


----------



## PG Era Sucks (Mar 8, 2011)

Someone please remind me why WWE has Saturday Morning Slam? A huge waste of 30 minutes.

I understand it's geared more towards kids but so was WWF LiveWire and at least that show was worth watching due to some drunk calling in every once in awhile.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

PG Era Sucks said:


> Someone please remind me why WWE has Saturday Morning Slam?





PG Era Sucks said:


> I understand it's geared more towards kids .


That awkward moment where you answer your own question.

No wait, that moment when you know the answer to your own question but because you wanna bitch about it so much you pose it as a question and then go on to answer it in a sad attempt to get some bitching going on, hoping that others would join in.

Seriously, no one fucking cares. I've seen about 2 episodes of Saturday Monrning Slam, could care less for it so you know what I do? I don't watch it. 

Jesus Christ, dude you know the purpose of Saturday Morning Slam. Does a show that you don't even watch bother you so much?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Don't recall that Batista/Khali Punjabi Prison match at all. Checking it out right now!
> 
> Oh as for Batista matches, vs Cena WM 26 is one of his best performances. When I was watching Mania 26, I actually didn't bother to watch the match :shocked:
> 
> ...


**3/4 for me. I like enough to watch watch plenty. Don't find it to be particularly outstanding. I'd say they accomplished that at Summerslam and Extreme Rules. Have Over The Limit on tap to watch soon, so I'll get back to you on how I feel about the I Quit. WM was my least personal favorite of their series. All are good matches at the end of the day. So, that's a plus.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

^ yep I was like... :rodgers 

Kinda like your sig tho until the last pic, wouldnt Cena be the right choice? And besides that you realize the show was rated PG back then too right? What is considered "acceptable" in society is what the real issue is...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saturday Morning Slam is geared towards kids. Either watch it expecting that or don't watch. It's that simple.

The only flaw about it isn't so much the kiddie aspect. It's the editing they do to not show any "dangerous" moves that is horrible. Makes the matches not even worth seeing.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think i might also give the Batista/Cena series a watch. I can't recall a match between the two at Extreme Rules though and I've never seen the Summerslam or OTL matches. Should be a fun project. Would update with the snowflakes when I'm done.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hailsabin said:


> Saturday Morning Slam is geared towards kids. Either watch it expecting that or don't watch. It's that simple.
> 
> The only flaw about it isn't so much the kiddie aspect. It's the editing they do to not show any "dangerous" moves that is horrible. Makes the matches not even worth seeing.


I can understand complaining about RAW or SD, but it's just stupid to complain about SMS. Then again, with a username like PG Era Sucks (yeah, yeah mine is Sharkboy) there's not much to expect. Also with 62 posts and a join date of March 2011, he seems like the kind of poster that comes on just to bitch.


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

My CM Punk blu-ray order came from amazon this morning. When putting in disk 1 and it comes up to the screen where should it should have a list options press play, special features etc. yet nothing shows up so I can't watch disk 1. I can watch disk 2 fine no problem. Any help

It comes up like this:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like the first Punjabi Prison. EAT IT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I think i might also give the Batista/Cena series a watch. I can't recall a match between the two at Extreme Rules though and I've never seen the Summerslam or OTL matches. Should be a fun project. Would update with the snowflakes when I'm done.


Never seen Summerslam? Oh, it's a pretty damn good match with quite the electric atmosphere. Extreme Rules is a Last Man Standing and OTL is an I Quit match. Both follow WrestleMania 26 to continue their program. It's good stuff.



sharkboy22 said:


> I can understand complaining about RAW or SD, but it's just stupid to complain about SMS. Then again, with a username like PG Era Sucks (yeah, yeah mine is Sharkboy) there's not much to expect. Also with 62 posts and a join date of March 2011, he seems like the kind of poster that comes on just to bitch.


Meh, just ignore him and no need to strike up any form of a confrontation.



Mainboy said:


> My CM Punk blu-ray order came from amazon this morning. When putting in disk 1 and it comes up to the screen where should it should have a list options press play, special features etc. yet nothing shows up so I can't watch disk 1. I can watch disk 2 fine no problem. Any help


Was the disc in bad shape which explains the error? Maybe something was off to where your DVD player couldn't sync up and read the first disc. b/c I'm immediately jumping to it being damaged. More so considering you said the second disc worked without a hitch.


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Was the disc in bad shape which explains the error? Maybe something was off to where your DVD player couldn't sync up and read the first disc. b/c I'm immediately jumping to it being damaged. More so considering you said the second disc worked without a hitch.


Nope the disc wasn't in bad shape mate. The disk is just out of the packaging. Pretty pissed off. Paid £21 for it not to work!!!

What I did notice was disk 2 was in disk 1's slot and disk 1 was in slot 2 where to keep the disc in the DVD if you know what I mean. 

So quite clearly amazon have sent it to me and the disc has been damaged through the post or someone else has used the disc and amazon have sent me a faulty disk. Not happy


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Was the disc in bad shape which explains the error? Maybe something was off to where your DVD player couldn't sync up and read the first disc. b/c I'm immediately jumping to it being damaged. More so considering you said the second disc worked without a hitch.


Nope the disc wasn't in bad shape mate. The disk is just out of the packaging. Pretty pissed off. Paid £21 for it not to work!!!

What I did notice was disk 2 was in disk 1's slot and disk 1 was in slot 2 where to keep the disc in the DVD if you know what I mean. 

So quite clearly amazon have sent it to me and the disc has been damaged through the post or someone else has used the disc and amazon have sent me a faulty disk. Not happy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Are you playing it on a normal bluray player or on your PC? Just wondering because I have similar problems sometimes with discs on my PC, and its usually just VLC player acting like a bitch (because it sucks, but its usually the quickest program for me to load up to check a disc I've just copied or something).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Give Cal's idea a try by checking out some other outlet to view it on or if your player is blu-ray compatible. (I'm sure you're plenty wise enough to figure that out before hand, but it seems to be the only thing I can ponder atm. :$) If not, I recommend sending it back for a fixed copy. I'd be pissed too.


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Are you playing it on a normal bluray player or on your PC? Just wondering because I have similar problems sometimes with discs on my PC, and its usually just VLC player acting like a bitch (because it sucks, but its usually the quickest program for me to load up to check a disc I've just copied or something).


On my normal blu-ray player mate. Really annoyed. Will get my dad to look at the disk in the morning and see if he can fix it. If he can't then I will be sending back and buying the DVD out of a shop.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not the first time I've heard of an error from Amazon. They're not common or anything, but oh my level of anger would be outlandish. I've yet to experience a fault with using Amazon though. *knock on wood as my bragging doesn't need to come and bite me back in the ass*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think I've ever ordered a dvd/bluray that didn't work, except for copies.


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Not the first time I've heard of an error from Amazon. They're not common or anything, but oh my level of anger would be outlandish. I've yet to experience a fault with using Amazon though. *knock on wood as my bragging doesn't need to come and bite me back in the ass*


I never have any problems with amazon. I've ordered many blu-rays off there and they have worked fine. This disk isn't for some reason <_<.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Horrible luck this time around it seems. (N)


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

Just tried another brand new blu/ray disk (saving private ryan) just now and that disk won't work either. So i think it's something to do with my blu -ray. Just wasted about £31 on 2 disk that won't work. Fucking raging. I have another blu-ray disk (braveheart) coming on Monday through the post I might aswell send that back too because its not gonna work


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fuck, why is it so hard for me to finish watching No Way Out? Had to rewind Benoit/Booker & Rey/Orton about 3 times just because I fell asleep during the middle portion and somehow woke up for the finish. But it's cool now, I'm on the main event and no longer feeling sleepy, ha.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Fuck, why is it so hard for me to finish watching No Way Out? Had to rewind Benoit/Booker & Rey/Orton about 3 times just because I fell asleep during the middle portion and somehow woke up for the finish. But it's cool now, I'm on the main event and no longer feeling sleepy, ha.


I have the same issue with the show. I always want to right a review on it so I keep starting at the beginning. I've seen that stupid CW opener like 4 times now and I've never made it more than halfway through the card... I know I've seen the Undetaker/Angle match though. Pretty sure I just gave in and skipped the rest of the card. 

Also I just finished Disc 2 of Savage's set. It's been fucking awesome. It might take a while to get done with Disc 3 though as I'm heading back to Philly for school on Monday. But expect a massive review from me in the near future. All I have to say so far is that Flair/Savage from WM 8 is the best thing ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can answer that question: the crowd is awful and the show has a plodding flow to it. The matches aren't bad minus the boring Benoit vs Booker match, but it takes a lot of attention to focus on the show until the final two matches, imo. It's why I don't hold the show in as high regard as others. It's completely solid with two great main events, only it has that slight stigma to it.

Damn fans.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't get me wrong. The show itself was awesome, it's just a trend with me. It was around 3 AM and on numerous occasions, I've fallen asleep during a match because I've been too tired to keep my eyes open. Now it's review time!

*No Way Out 2006:*

Cruiserweight 9-Way - ★★★
- A highly entertaining, fast paced match with lots of wrestlers doing their thing cruiserweight style. Serves its purpose as the match to warm up the crowd from the beginning and it gets enough time to make it work. Gregory Helms retains in a heelish way by stealing somebody else's pin. I also like how he's treated as the outsider that keeps overcoming the odds.

JBL vs Bobby Lashley - ★★¾
- Much better than I would've expected it to be. Bradshaw is good when he's in control and Lashley is also pretty good when he makes his comeback, then Finlay interferes and causes Lashley to suffer his first one-on-one pinfall loss since his debut.

Matt Hardy/Tatanka vs MNM - ★★½
- Just a random tag match and not really much else. I liked it for what it was, but it's still the low-point of the show which is a good thing and tells you just how good this PPV is.

Chris Benoit vs Booker T - ★★★¾
- Now it's on to the main events, starting off with the US Championship match. With 18 minutes, they get a lot of time to work with and as usual, their chemistry shines. Benoit's performance is on point as usual and Booker keeps up despite having not wrestled (on TV anyways) for several months. The finish comes in unique fashion when Benoit gets Booker locked in the Sharpshooter but switches quickly to the Crossface for the submission victory. GREAT match!

Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - ★★★★
- Eddie's death being exploited aside, this is awesome. Orton is just a wonderful heel and this is pretty much his match. Throughout the time it lasts, he shines with the cocky facial expressions, the painful methodical work on Rey and his cheating ways. This is pretty much textbook on how to be a heel in a match. Constant work on the arm with some tough spots such as the "swing" of Rey's arm into the ringpost (after Rey comes off the apron for a Senton that Orton catches) and whenever Rey tries to gain momentum, Orton slows him down with stuff like an eye rake. Orton ducks a 619 in the end and rolls Rey up using the ropes for the victory which gains him the Wrestlemania main event spot for the World Title match. It is pretty much rendered useless when Rey is put in the title match again the week after, though.

Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - ★★★★★
- This match officially joins my exclusive 5 star club. Great work from both men. Angle works on the ankle throughout and Taker sells it perfectly. Forgot how hot the crowd was also. Doesn't quite reach that other level until the finishing stretch, though. So many awesome counters and nearfalls. Not much to say that hasn't already been said. If you haven't seen this match already, do yourself a favor and give it a watch. Angle turns a Triangle Choke into a roll-up for the victory and this comes to an end after 30 amazing minutes!

*Overall Rating:* ★★★★ out of ★★★★★ (Don't know about others, but I loved this PPV and not a single match falls into the "bad" category. Crowd was alright and got better when the main events rolled through. And speaking of the main events, all three of them are GREAT matches.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I struggled to get through it. Not in the mood to watch it again pardon the last two matches for a while.

On a side note - these WWE Superstars from 2010 rock. Already have about 5 Regal gems without even getting to the Goldust matches yet. Regal vs Bourne was something else for a sub 5 minute contest.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I <3 BIG DAVE-JOHNNY SUPERMAN.

Summerslam : **** 3/4*
Wrestlemania : **** 3/4*
Extreme Rules : ******
Over the Limit : **** 1/2*

FUCKING BOSS.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm a big fan of the Cena/Batista series as well, or at least I was last time I saw it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

TaylorFitz said:


> I have the same issue with the show. I always want to right a review on it so I keep starting at the beginning. I've seen that stupid CW opener like 4 times now and I've never made it more than halfway through the card... I know I've seen the Undetaker/Angle match though. Pretty sure I just gave in and skipped the rest of the card.
> 
> Also I just finished Disc 2 of Savage's set. It's been fucking awesome. It might take a while to get done with Disc 3 though as I'm heading back to Philly for school on Monday. But expect a massive review from me in the near future. *All I have to say so far is that Flair/Savage from WM 8 is the best thing ever.*


:yes for one of the greatest matches in WrestleMania history. 

I love pretty much everything about this match from the fury Savage brings to Flair for his mind games with Elizabeth, to Flair working on Savage's legs, the pacing & timing is perfect, and their chemistry had never been better. The false finishes were built and executed so well in a way that has me on the edge of my seat over two decades later. It gets **** 1/2 from me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Flair/Savage is probably in my top 25 WWE matches ever. Adore it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Same here. Wrestlemania VIII in general is one of my favorite shows ever due to Flair/Savage and Hart/Piper stealing the show. The post match promos from both Flair and Savage are some of the greatest of all time. Seriously can't wait to get to MANIA EIGHT, I just have to blow through two to seven first 

... AAAANDDD Two sucks as of now.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Wrestlemania XIX*

*Cruiserweight Title Match*
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio *** (I know this was really short, but I wasn't bored at all during this match)

*Handicap Match*
Undertaker vs. A-Train & Big Show ** (Decent big guy match. Taker could've been involved in something better.)

*Triple Threat for Women's Title*
Trish Stratus vs. Jazz vs. Victoria **1/2 (Makes me wish they'd give women more of a chance these days)

*Triple Threat for Tag Team Titles*
Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros vs. Chris Benoit & Rhyno *** (Felt like the odd men out, to be honest.)

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ***** (Classic)

*World Heavyweight Title Match*
Triple H (w/ Ric Flair) vs. Booker T ***1/2 (Decent title match. Wrong guy went over)

*Street Fight*
Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon **** 

The Rock vs. Stone Cold ****

*WWE Championship Match*
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle ****1/2

Overall - 9/10

One of the best Mania's of all time.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I wrote my review for it and it's literally twice as long as anything else on the set so far. That's usually a sign that I love a match when I just can't stop talking about how much I love it. It's awesome, I don't even care that Flair says they had to rehearse it beforehand.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Survivor Series 2002*

*3 on 3 Elimination Tables Match*
Dudley Boyz & Jeff Hardy vs. Rico & 3 Minute Warning ***1/2

*Cruiserweight Title Match*
Billy Kidman vs. Jamie Noble ***1/2

*Hardcore Match for Women's Title*
Victoria vs. Trish Stratus ***

*WWE Championship Match*
Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar ***

*Triple Threat Elimination for Tag Titles*
Los Guerreros vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit **** 

*Elimination Chamber for World Heavyweight Title*
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T ****1/2

Overall - 10/10

My favorite Survivor Series of all time.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

That WrestleMania 19 card is phenomenal. It's up there with WrestleMania X-Seven and WrestleMania 20 by far.

As for Hogan vs Vince's street fight, I honestly thought it was going to be a shit match that would be DUD worthy but it turned out to be a pretty great match. The stare-down between the two was also great,


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

TaylorFitz said:


> I wrote my review for it and it's literally twice as long as anything else on the set so far. That's usually a sign that I love a match when I just can't stop talking about how much I love it. It's awesome, I don't even care that Flair says they had to rehearse it beforehand.


Randy was just a perfectionist. Steamboat also talked about how he and Randy rehearsed a lot for the WrestleMania III match and look at how that turned out. If you can produce a classic calling it in the ring or with preparation do whatever works to make it a great & memorable show I say.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

NO! said:


> *Survivor Series 2002*
> 
> *3 on 3 Elimination Tables Match*
> Dudley Boyz & Jeff Hardy vs. Rico & 3 Minute Warning ***1/2
> ...


I really enjoyed that Lesnar/Show match. They had a pretty good series.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hailsabin said:


> I struggled to get through it. Not in the mood to watch it again pardon the last two matches for a while.
> 
> On a side note - these WWE Superstars from 2010 rock. Already have about 5 Regal gems without even getting to the Goldust matches yet. Regal vs Bourne was something else for a sub 5 minute contest.


There have to be some really good matches that you'll come across. I really should be watching more of Superstars as it seems to feature a bunch of really talented guys working matches that are, for the most part, fairly short.



Clique said:


> Randy was just a perfectionist. Steamboat also talked about how he and Randy rehearsed a lot for the WrestleMania III match and look at how that turned out. If you can produce a classic calling it in the ring or with preparation do whatever works to make it a great & memorable show I say.


Yeah that shouldn't impact what you think about a match. It would be like giving a movie a bad review because you thought the actor's rehearsed too much. 

That being said when things do happen on the fly that is incredibly impressive. I don't know how guy are able to just go out there and put on a great match without really planning anything. I know I've heard Punk say that he didn't plan anything with Cena aside from the finish for their match at MITB. That just sounds unbelievable. But that's more like a cool fact and not something that really makes a match more or less enjoyable.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dear God, here's a tip folks: DO NOT spend your late night watching crappy PPV's. It'll be the perfect combination of bore, ache and tire. With that being said...

*Cyber Sunday 2006:*
Kane/Umaga: 3/4*
Tornado Tag: **
Jeff/Carlito: *1/2
DX/Rated RKO: ***
Lita/Mickie: 1/2*
Spirit Squad/Flair & Piper: 3/4*
Cena/Booker/Show: **1/4

*December To Dismember 2006:*
Hardys/MNM: ***1/4
Mahoney/Striker: 1/2*
FBI/Burke & Terkay: DUD
Dreamer/Daivari: DUD
Knox & Kelly/Thorn & Ariel: DUD
Elimination Chamber: **

Well, neither is Heroes Of Wrestling bad, or Great American Bash 1991 bad, or even King Of The Ring 1995 bad (though D2D is only 2nd to that), but they're still definitely up there. December To Dismember matched Royal Rumble 06's record in DUD's. Cyber Sunday doesn't have a DUD but there are only 3 out of 7 matches actually were ** or above. Easily the worst PPV's of the year and two of the worst PPV's in WWE history.

The final ranking of all WWE PPV's 2006:

*1 - No Way Out
2 - Unforgiven
3 - One Night Stand*
4 - WrestleMania 22
5 - No Mercy
6 - Armageddon
7 - Vengeance
8 - Judgment Day
9 - Backlash
10 - New Year's Revolution
11 - SummerSlam
12 - The Great American Bash
13 - Survivor Series
14 - Royal Rumble
15 - Cyber Sunday
16 - December To Dismember

Considering starting a PG Era TV matches project... any suggestions for that?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Wait...you actually watched December to Dismember? Masochist.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I did. Call me your martyr now :artest


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the 2007 Rumble earlier for the first time, very enjoyable, the finishing stretch when Taker entered was of course awesome, loved it when he got rid of Khali, and the HBK exchanges were great, shame we'd have to wait nion two years before they really got together again (apart from the NWO 2007 tag).

Oh, pissed me off a bit how Kane git eliminated by Booker, hate those sorts of eliminations.

Good stuff overall.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hailsabin said:


> I struggled to get through it. Not in the mood to watch it again pardon the last two matches for a while.
> 
> On a side note - these WWE Superstars from 2010 rock. Already have about 5 Regal gems without even getting to the Goldust matches yet. Regal vs Bourne was something else for a sub 5 minute contest.







Love this match from them, one of my favourites from 2011 personally. House Show so you get Regal being an incredibly entertaining heel, offering a handshake to Bourne and hushing the crowd to stop jeering him and trying to convince Bourne to ignore the crowd and listen to him. Some really good WOS chain wrestling to begin, a good injection of comedy in Regal's heel in peril segment setting up him being stiff as hell on Bourne when in control and a genuinly entertaining and fun finishing stretch.

Oh Bourne, why must you be such a knob backstage pissing off management?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Currently in the middle of the 07 RR event. About to watch Umaga/Cena. Good job I've currently lost my voice or I'd be screaming at my monitor when the finish comes...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Good job I've currently lost my voice or I'd be screaming at my monitor when the finish comes...


Innuendo galore here..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can still make my cum face so it's all good 8*D. Looks a little like my sig .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think you're being a little genorous with the size of the wood in between his hands...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They don't call me *BIG* Z for nothing :side:.

Just finished downloading Jan-April Raw 05. Nice to see there are some decent seeders so its downloading nice and fast. Flicked through the first ep from Jan to see what the quality was like and FUCK, talk about an absolutely STACKED card. Guys competing in the EC are all facing each other in matches. Batista/Benoit kicks off the show :mark:. Really wanna see that lol, but I has other things to watch first.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I remember Batista/Benoit having good chemistry in the Evolution vs the world tags on Raw in 04. Isn't there a Christian/Orton match from February that sterling really loved? Be interested if you get around to watching that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian/Orton was pretty damn good, I liked it. And there is a Christian/Batista match too *I think* that was good. CHRISTIAN.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Be interesting to see his earlier work in comparison to his coming of age between 09-11. Feels like he always had that ability but never got a chance to showcase it with how he was positioned as well as being heel for virtually his entire career, which whilst being better for him character wise is bad for the fans because he's infinitely better working from beneath and selling his arse off than he is dictating the pace and controlling a match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starting a 2007 PPV project now that I'm done with 06...

*New Year's Revolution 2007:*
Jeff/Morrison: ***1/4
Tag Turmoil: ***
Mickie/Victoria: *
Flair/Kenny: *1/2
Rated RKO/DX: ***3/4
Carlito/Masters: *1/2
Cena/Umaga: **3/4

This was pretty decent I'd say. Rated RKO/DX was much, much better than the Cyber Sunday and Survivor Series matches and one of the best Tag matches of 07 (there were many great as far as I can remember). Jeff/Morrison was a good Cage Match, and Cena/Umaga and the Tag Turmoil were decent too. Nothing below *, which is already a step above pretty much all of the 06 PPV's except Unforgiven and NWO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The match you should be concerned about is Christian vs Benoit a couple of weeks after WM21. That was just awesome barring Edge's constant rambling on commentary.

And from the first Raw of 05, the Batista/Benoit & Orton/Trips matches rule. There's also a decent Orton match with Flair the week before Royal Rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And speaking of the 05 RR... posted my thoughts on my blog. I'm expecting a lot of people to think I'm CRAZY with my thoughts on some of the matches .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2007*:
Hardys/MNM: ***1/2
Lashley/Test: 1/4*
Batista/Kennedy: **3/4
Cena/Umaga: ****1/2
RR Match: ****1/2

An average undercard that is still miles superior than most of the previous Rumble undercards, and two ****1/2 matches. Can't go wrong here.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Awesome blog posts Cal! Yes, I will acknowledge you have a blog. I also marked when Undertaker returned at Rumble '03 and how JR called it. Love the tease in the 04 one too. Undertaker has had some good Rumble appearances in 07-09 matches. I want him to start a feud with Cena at this year's Rumble match but I know WWE won't do it.

I watched the 05 Rumble PPV too and I enjoyed it not quite as much as you did but it was a well rounded card from beginning to end and that was one entertaining Rumble match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Disc 3 of the Undertaker: Tombstone Dvd set, starting with the Fully Loaded '99 first blood match vs Stone Cold, great brawl, one of my faves tbh.

Would love to see more Ministry era promos released too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Cena/Undertaker will happen in Wrestlemania XXX. That way it also feels more historic as the huge main event. This year they can have Cena beat The Rock (preferably with a heel turn) to reestablish himself as a threat after having lost so much in the past couple of years and Brock can challenge the streak. Other than the Brock match, not a single win for Cena has meant anything. But he's lost several high profile matches such as the main event of WM27 against The Miz, MITB with Punk, the briefcase cash-in and of course WM28 against The Rock. No one cares but he also lost his Survivor Series streak too this year.

My road to WM22 begins now, any thoughts on the RVD/HHH/Show three way for the #1 contender spot at WM? It's coming up soon.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Grove Street 4 Life Choke.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Taker/HHH - WM17

I've always loved this match, another great brawl with excellent spots all over the arena, not sure it gets talked about much, seen it ranked quite low but lists at least **** for me.

Also lol at the Taker ref bump for the last two matches!! Also loved the build promo for the match as I forgot how the fued began with Taker returning and all...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Anybody know if the Tagged Classics from SV blur the WWF logo? Thinking about buying some but I might change my mind if they're blurred to hell.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Royal Rumble 2005 _

Edge-HBK : **** 1/4*
Taker-Heidenreich : *** 3/4*
JBL-Show-Angle : **** 3/4*
Trips-Orton : **** 1/2*
Rumble : **** 3/4*

:lol @ CAL having a Triple H match rated higher than me. We have almost the exact sae ratings on this one, bar the casket match and a quarter on the WHC.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*No Way Out 2007:
*Benoit & Hardys/MVP & MNM: ***1/4
CW Open: **
Finlay & Hornswoggle/Boogeyman and Lil' Boogey: DUD
Kane/Booker: **1/2
Londrick/DnD: 1/2*
Lashley/Kennedy: DUD
Taker & Batista/Cena & HBK: ***3/4

*WrestleMania 23:*
MITB: ****1/2
Kane/Khali: DUD
Benoit/MVP: ***1/2
Batista/Taker: ****1/2
ECW Originals/New Breed: **1/2
Lashley/Umaga: ***
Melina/Ashley: DUD
Cena/HBK: ****3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Anybody know if the Tagged Classics from SV blur the WWF logo? Thinking about buying some but I might change my mind if they're blurred to hell.


TC are in no way edited. No blurring, no music removed, nothing .

And I was surprised as fuck that I loved that HHH/Orton match as much as I did. PPV overall is one of the best all round Rumble shows ever. Shame it was missing a "classic" that puts it below a couple on the CAL SCALE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Still think it's their second best match besides the No Mercy Last Man Standing... WHICH IS FUCKING AWESOME. What is up with their completely BAD chemistry ? They've had countless TV matches that are basically all fucking shit with the exception of the 09 LMS, the shitty Wrestlemania and BASH matches, the cut short Extreme Rules match, and the overwhelmingly average Judgment Day and Unforgiven main events.

I think I looked it up a few months ago and found that Orton-Trips main evented more PPVs together than any other pairing in WWE history. That's fucking pathetic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't hate the Trips/Orton chemistry nearly as much as others. For instance, most of you hate their UNF and JD matches but I enjoyed them a lot. Their best match is definitely LMS from NM then after that, I'd consider Royal Rumble, Unforgiven and the Raw LMS. It's obvious that they work a lot better in a more loose environment with no DQs.



Salt Upon Wounds said:


> Grove Street 4 Life Choke.


Fa'sho!



ATF said:


> *No Way Out 2007:
> WrestleMania 23:*


Damn, how can you bother spending the whole day watching every single PPV? I would demand a big break after watching one full PPV!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> TC are in no way edited. No blurring, no music removed, nothing .
> 
> And I was surprised as fuck that I loved that HHH/Orton match as much as I did. PPV overall is one of the best all round Rumble shows ever. Shame it was missing a "classic" that puts it below a couple on the CAL SCALE.


Can always count on you for these things, CAL. Went ahead and ordered TC NWO/Backlash 00 and Unforgiven/No Mercy 00 which should complete my year 2000 PPV collection. Also picked up Best of Raw/SD 11 blu-ray too. Cena/Mysterio on there :mark:. Can't wait to watch that back. 

Was in HMV earlier. They have some wrestling stuff on sale but nothing close to SV prices though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 2000 :mark:.

Cena/Mysterio :mark:. Might watch that tomorrow since I'm home alone.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm at a loss of words over if I should retool the CAL SCALE or not after watching the first two Wrestlemania events. THEY SCORED THAT BAD. Wrestlemania III looks a hell of alot better believe me. I've never seen alot from IV or even V , but together they have about 30 fucking matches!

:vince DA FUCK

....SINCE YOU'RE HOME ALONE YOU'VE GOTTA GET BITCHES OVER TO GET IN ON THIS CENA-MYSTERIO ACTION. AWWWW YEAH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Use the OFFICIAL CAL SCALE and see how things work out .

The Cal Scale

NO = -1 (if you absolutely REFUSE to even watch)
DUD-* = 0
*1/4-** = 0.5
**1/4-**3/4 = 1
***-***1/4 = 2
***1/2 = 3
***3/4 = 4
**** = 5
****1/4 = 6
****1/2 = 7
****3/4 = 8
***** = 9
MOTY/GOAT = 2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Backlash 2000 :mark:.
> 
> Cena/Mysterio :mark:. Might watch that tomorrow since I'm home alone.


I haven't seen Backlash 2000 in _years_. Can't wait to watch it back.

I'm a huge mark for the Cena/Mysterio match. I really enjoyed that thing. If only they were to have a PPV match together. It would no doubt OWN.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NOW THAT'S MORE LIKE IT.

I can stop subtracting vast amounts of points away from these events now. I swear between the first two Manias there's like 8 DUDs


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Malenko vs. Scotty :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Right, im onto Taker/Angle - Smackdown 2003.

Never seen this match, or the one in '06.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOAT WWE TV MATCH :agree:.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol :lol :lol THE SHOWSTER BROTHER.

Oh, Taker is Angle's greatest opponent IMO (he did get Kurt's greatest match out of him, one of the greatest WWF/WWE matches ever might I add) with a pair of TV classics as well. I love both of them and I'd probably throw four and a half at both, but I'm in the minority by saying I prefer the 2006 one.

As a matter of fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that Taker-Angle @ NWO is Taker's best match that doesn't involve Shawn Michaels. His worst ***** match (not an insult AT ALL).

& @ CAL ...... When did we start talking about Benoit/Austin ?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just counted up how much money I've spent on SV in Dec/Jan. £99.92 :lmao The fucking hell did I buy! I'm going to have to start watching this shit now.

Taker/Angle NWO 06 just might be a 5* match for me. I need to watch it again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh shit, I hate when that happens.

between 2011 and 2012 I've legit spent over a grand in Wrestling DVDs. All of my friends think I'm a psycho.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

From the money I've spent on DVD's to merchandise to live events to 4 WRESTLEMANIAS IN A FUCKING ROW I'd like to think I've contributed a substantial amount to one of the McMahon grand kids trust funds lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SV said they are gonna have a MASSIVE sale next week or so too. MOAR MONEY TO THEM. Meanwhile freemantle are probably as busy as Blockbusters.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker/Angle:

Fully Loaded 00: ★½
Smackdown 03: ★★★★½
No Way Out 06: ★★★★★
Smackdown 06: I'LL BE THERE SOON

Haven't seen the rest.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> SV said they are gonna have a MASSIVE sale next week or so too. MOAR MONEY TO THEM. Meanwhile freemantle are probably as busy as Blockbusters.


They did? Well fuck. I should have waited a week to buy that stuff. Ah well. It's done now.


----------



## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

Haha! I know how you guys feel as i just spent £143 on SilverVision a few hours ago! They are all SuperStar DVD's too! I need a nice unit to display them all now!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania III is 19 times better than the first two put together and I'm not even halfway through. Can't wait to rewatch one of the GOATS in Savage vs Steamboat. 

That HAS to be universally heralded as fantastic..... RIGHT?

(waits for somebody to come in and give it three stars  )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Savage/Steamboat... eh. Not a fan. Kinda dull, and far too rehearsed for my liking. Fucking Savage.

JK . ****1/4 for it. Prefer their No DQ match like a month earlier in Toronto *I think*. ****1/4 for that too, but I just like it more.

Not a fan of WM III overall. Aside from Steamboat/Savage its mostly turd like 1 and 2.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> (waits for somebody to come in and give it three stars  )


Hohenheim of Light.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD DAMNIT


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I give that match ★★★½. I appreciate what it did for its time and how special it was back then but it just feels a bit too basic compared to the stuff that has followed it in the past 15 or so years.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Years ago when I first watched Steamboat vs. Savage, after all the praise and hype it got, the match fell real flat for me. It's not that it didn't live up to my too high expectations, it simply wasn't that good, especially considering on what kind of a pedestal it's being held on. The last minutes of the match are where they really fart the whole joint up. Winded, exhausted and just zombishly going through what were obviously over-rehearsed motions.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

It's not a mediocre match by any measure, quite the opposite, but you can probably find matches that are on par with it among some random Dan Spivey vs Terry Gordy encounters floating around Youtube.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I thought Steamboat/Savage was good, finish definitely caught me off guard as i thought the match felt short.
Great for it's time but like C2D said it doesn't hold up with matches going forward.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Love this match from them, one of my favourites from 2011 personally. House Show so you get Regal being an incredibly entertaining heel, offering a handshake to Bourne and hushing the crowd to stop jeering him and trying to convince Bourne to ignore the crowd and listen to him. Some really good WOS chain wrestling to begin, a good injection of comedy in Regal's heel in peril segment setting up him being stiff as hell on Bourne when in control and a genuinly entertaining and fun finishing stretch.
> 
> Oh Bourne, why must you be such a knob backstage pissing off management?


I legit thought about that match during Regal vs Bourne, tbhayley. It's great. (Y)

Oh hey, totally got to Dolph vs Masters last night. All I'm left with is wow. Such a gritty, but more importantly, a smart match. The counters, the evading of submissions, the general strategy of human chess played by both was something else. Certainly has risen up as one of my favorite sub 10 minute matches out there. 9:51 - can you believe that?

Masters vs McIntyre isn't until July or August I believe so unless Football gets in my way today, I'll manage to get on that soon. :mark: _(did you know they had a rematch in 2011 on Superstars that was pretty awesome too?)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the one who asked how can I watch every PPV out there in a single day - I'm used to it 

Angle/Taker '03 is one of GOAT TV matches, but there are plenty out there that I see as better, even SD matches. Austin/Benoit for example. That is a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 match of 2001, and that's a huge fucking lot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've watched PPV upon PPV in the span of days and didn't want to stop. It's not hard. In fact it's kind of the BEST thing to do when you have nothing to do for that day.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My Top Five For 2001 ;

1. Benoit-Austin (SD)
2. 2 Man Power Trip-Benoit/Jericho (RAW)
3. Austin-Angle (SS)
4. Austin-Rock (WM)
5. Benoit-Jericho (RR)

What a fucking year. AUSTIN.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've watched at least 1 RR PPV every day for the last 2 weeks, along with keeping up with NINE currently weekly shows and 1 PPV this month so far (got Superstars and SMS to watch still for this week). And on top of that I watched the LOTR trilogy extended editions, currently watching The Godfather, watched the Oceans Trilogy on bluray last week too. And random episodes of random stuff I have on my PC along with a few weekly non wrestling tv shows that are currently running . And on top of that I write my video scripts, record and edit them, and work on other video projects I have lined up for the future. And yet I've still managed to fit in about 10 hours of Far Cry 3 .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My top 5 of '01 (TV only):

1 - Austin/Benoit
2 - Powertrip/Benoit & Jericho
3 - TLC III
4 - Angle/Benoit Cage
5 - Austin/RVD SD

Austin and Benoit everywhere


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 of 01:

1. Angle Vs Austin SS
2. Benoit Vs Austin SD
3. TLC III SD
4. Benoit Vs Jericho RR
5. WWF Vs Alliance SS


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit and Austin running shit on every list!

I can only imagine how great it would have been if Benoit and Hunter had not been injured halfway through the year.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best of 2001:

1. Austin vs Angle Summerslam 
2. Benoit vs Jericho Royal Rumble 
3. Benoit vs Austin, Smackdown Edmonton
4. Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/HHH, Raw
5. TLC III, Smackdown


As for best TV match, Eddie vs Rey 6/23/05 will likely forever remain my answer. Rey/Orton 4/7/06 and Benoit/Finlay 5/5/06 would also be in the top 10. Benoit/Regal Velocity 2005 and Mysterio/Noble Velocity 2004 are personal favourites, but only Benoit/Regal of the two would have a shot at the top 10.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2001 without Trips .

Not enough love for Rock/Austin imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin, Benoit, Jericho, Angle, & Undertaker just b/c Undertaker always has to be listed for the top 5 of 2001. (realistically I think I'd have to give RVD a big thumbs up too.)

Nothing beats Austin vs Angle from Summerslam for me. And I'm that guy that credits Benoit vs Jericho from Rumble with 5 stars too. AUSTIN VS ANGLE :mark:

Austin vs Rock is blah in comparison to the rest listed. I'll never understand the hard on for that match to the extend it gets. It's great for what it is, sure. As good as some of the other matches listed? Nah. **** - could have had some minutes trimmed from it. Drags in a minor area like most Attitude Era brawls do. I'm not big on that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rock/Austin WM 17 gets weaker with every viewing for me. Not a fan of the brawling and I find the bulk of the match to be plodding and with nothing really to grab me. Austin is incredible in it, resorting to moves he hadn't used in years, growing more and more unhinged with every kickout and nearfall and that chilling emotionless facial expression with blood trickling down his leg after the Stunner kickout.

Still, Austin's performance aside I just don't think it measures up as well as some of the best 01 produced. The WM 19 match is far better imo.

Austin/Angle is outstanding. Arguably Austin's finest performance in his career year, channeling the balance between paranoid champion wary of Angle to blood thirsty maniac trying to kill Angle when he realises the fight he's in for. That's the Kurt Angle we should have seen on a more regular basis, great heroic babyface performance and the finish is perfect. Patrick taking the time to begin the count, then stop mid count realising Austin is done is such a suitably great heel trait.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 19 Rock/Austin love :mark:. Definitely hold it above WM 17.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll try a top 5 myself:

1. Rock/Austin (WM17) - ★★★★★
2. Austin/Benoit (SD) - ★★★★¾
3. Austin/Trips (NWO) - ★★★★½
4. TLC III (SD) - ★★★★½
5. Power Trip/Benoit & Jericho (Raw) - ★★★★½

So good that I couldn't even find a spot for Austin/Angle SS and Benoit/Jericho RR.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I fear watching Austin vs Rock again since I just don't have the strength to go through it again and realize it isn't even a four star match. Think I only put it in the high praise category as it is b/c of Austin's performance. He's great collectively, but the overall match is nothing we haven't seen before from that era. Just the atmosphere was nuts so that sucks people in.

WrestleMania 17 doesn't even deserve to be compared with 19. Austin & Rock were streets ahead with what they wanted to produce come 19. That's the legendary bout between the two.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as top 5 overall of 2001 is concerned:
1 - Austin/Rock
2 - Austin/HHH NWO
3 - Team WWF/Alliance SS
4 - Austin/Angle SSlam
5 - Austin/Benoit

:austin


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

17 > 19 for me. I love 17. ******* all the way.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Double post, sorry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Rock, Austin vs Triple H, Angle vs Benoit in the cage. All get more press it seems yet all 3 are lesser bouts when compared to some others from 2001. That's funny.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Top 5 of '01:

1. HHH/Austin - No Way Out
2. Jericho/Benoit - Royal Rumble
3. Jericho & Benoit vs Power Trip - Raw
4. TLC III - SmackDown
5. TLC II - WrestleMania X-Seven

Honorable mentions: Austin/Rock (WM), Austin/Benoit (SD), Austin/Angle (SSlam), Jericho/Rock (NM), and WWF/Alliance (SSeries)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Angle/Benoit in the cage. That moonsault is all I remember from it but holy hell what a moment for the highlight reel. Crazy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's insane. I've always marked the most for the German Suplex spot off the ropes. They're mad men for even taking it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I still think RIKISHI jumping off the cage on to Val Venis is just a ridiculous spot.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My favorite spot is the super Diving Headbutt. That and the missed Moonsault were just crazy! I'm surprised Angle's face wasn't disfigured as it went right INTO the canvas as he landed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK/Bulldog - King of the Ring 1996

****

Always loved this match, some great power moves by Bulldog, esp the couple of superplex's off the turnbuckle, some really good counter stuff at the start too.

Will have to dig out their other matched, like the IYH one that I havnt seen.

Oh always lol at the start of the match when Davey shouts "Don't fuck with me" at sone fan I think, caught perfectly right in front of the centre camera!!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Angle/Benoit in the cage. That moonsault is all I remember from it but holy hell what a moment for the highlight reel. Crazy.





Starbuck said:


> I still think RIKISHI jumping off the cage on to Val Venis is just a ridiculous spot.


Angle's moonsault at 0:19 

Rikishi's jump at 1:04


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ouch. He bounces back up off the mat in slow motion almost. Crazy men.

EDIT - RIKISHI. Holy fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RIKISHI. Love that cage match. Totally enjoyed the feud with Val, with Val being the heel and showing a vicious side of him that we hadn't seen before. Fully Loaded is just another awesome PPV from 2000. Backstage stuff with E&C doing their best to avoid a match with the APA kills me every time :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rikishi's :lmao

that's absurd. I can't believe he didn't break his wrists after landing RIGHT ON THEM.

alright, Ted Dibiase Jr vs MVP is the main event on this Superstars. Mehhhhh. Seems to the theme on this show. Matt Hardy (good) vs Carlito. Christian (great) vs Chavo Guerrero Jr. Ted Dibiase Jr (I like him, but can be vanilla) vs MVP. One good/great/not bad worker vs a pretty blah guy. Not every edition can be winners.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Gotta give Val Venis massive respect for taking that Rikishi bump, that could've gone wrong so badly.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> RIKISHI. Love that cage match. Totally enjoyed the feud with Val, with Val being the heel and showing a vicious side of him that we hadn't seen before. Fully Loaded is just another awesome PPV from 2000. Backstage stuff with E&C doing their best to avoid a match with the APA kills me every time :lmao.


Lots of backstage lulz during FL with E/C, Jericho attacking HHH with the flowers but my favourite is Angle whacking Taker with the wrench before their match. "Wait til I get yo lil ass boi!" from Taker gets me every time. :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Them Hardy whisper in the winds are insane. Matt and Edge in the first one and Umaga in the second, neither of them properly caught him. Spine first from 15 feet, with the added momentum of the twist. That's gotta' hurt. Hate him or love him, Jeff is entertaining when it comes to shit like that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> My favorite spot is the super Diving Headbutt. That and the missed Moonsault were just crazy! I'm surprised Angle's face wasn't disfigured as it went right INTO the canvas as he landed.


is that match on DVD, just thought it may be judging by the wwe logo, but being Benoit I doubt it..


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rikishi splash off the cage - CLASSIC.

Found another potential GOAT TV match contender:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's on Benoit's DVD set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Lots of backstage lulz during FL with E/C, Jericho attacking HHH with the flowers but my favourite is Angle whacking Taker with the wrench before their match. "Wait til I get yo lil ass boi!" from Taker gets me every time. :lmao


Oh man almost forgot about Undertaker stalking Angle all night. Riding into the arena and chasing him backstage on his bike was epic :lmao. 

APA have to be one of my all time favourite teams of all time. I don't think they had a single classic tag match, or anything particularly great or anything, but DAMN they were so entertaining to watch in the ring, and the protection business stuff was epic. JBL should be made GM of Raw or SD, bring Ron in as his assistant, and just set up a table and the door backstage for their office. GOLD I TELLS YA.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> It's on Benoit's DVD set.


Ah thanks mate, havnt watched it all yet but swear I missed that match on the listing lol. :$


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Rikishi splash off the cage - CLASSIC.
> 
> Found another potential GOAT TV match contender:


Yeah, that was a really awesome match. John Morrison was really solid that year performance wise. His matches with Dolph Ziggler and also his Smackdown match with CM Punk that year was fantastic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Ah thanks mate, havnt watched it all yet but swear I missed that match on the listing lol. :$


One of the few WWF/WWE matches that actually made the set. Majority was WCW + matches from NEW JAPAN :mark:

more sets need to be like his. Include a great mix of their career if possible. That's why Mysterio's Biggest Little Man set is the GOAT too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wasn't really fond of his match with Ziggler at HIAC that year, but I agree Morrison had a rock solid 2009. I really enjoyed his SD match with Edge as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, and London vs Kidman @ No Mercy 2004 is officially the most underappreciated match ever IMO. That shit is amazing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YAY! I'm now almost at 3/3 for Smackdown which means it's time for Angle/Taker rematch. :mark:

In the meanwhile, the 24/2 edition contains a pretty fun tag match with Mysterio/Benoit/Lashley taking on Orton/JBL/Finlay. ★★★.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

London vs Kidman wasn't as strong as I remembered, but I still mark for it. Easily the MOTN on that event.

Morrison vs Ziggler from HIAC '09 = (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

London vs Kidman is brilliant, the psychology in particular surprised me, given that it is a Paul London match, but they did a great job.

This match made me go search up on old Velocity matches, given that it was mostly CW stuff. I found a London vs Kazarian match in the process, and even though it's only about 5/6 mins, should be great :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taking a leaf from Clique's sig:

HBK/Austin - King of the Ring 1997

****

Austin plays his charachter great here, esp when he mocks and mimmicks HBK. Really good match, great exchanges, gelled brilliantly at times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Paul London and his vast galaxy intrepid traveling brain is pretty great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWF 2001 top 5 (am I late? OK!):
1. Rock v Austn (Mania)
2. Austin v Benoit 5/31
3. Austin v Angle (SummerSlam)
4. Powertrip v Vanilla Midgets 5/21
5. UMMMMMM. IDK. I would have to watch Benoit v Jericho ladder match again but I kinda doubt it'd hold up THAT highly, since it seems every ladder match isn't as good as I thought nowadays. Not that I've alwsya been a big fan of the gimmick. Same for 3SOH. I like TLC 3, but not that much. Fuck what else is there? I feel like saying the 5/28 Austin v Benoit, but I'd probably like Benoit v Jericho more. So, that? IDK. Whatever #5 is it's a decent drop-off from #4, probably.

EDIT: OOH! Rock v Jericho from No Mercy. Definitely that at #5. 







Choke2Death said:


> In the meanwhile, the 24/2 edition contains a pretty fun tag match with Mysterio/Benoit/Lashley taking on Orton/JBL/Finlay. ★★★.


That match is friggin awesome. Personal favourite of mine.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Paul London is one of the most entertaining men I've ever seen/heard. I could listen to him talk all day :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Paul London vs Kazarian, Velocity August 2005*
Well, it's only about 4 mins. But it might just be the greatest 4 mins match I've ever seen - which isn't really saying much, but I guarantee you that this is much better than most TV matches today. The action was super fast-paced, the trades were stiff, the spots worked with the psychology, the crowd is into it, and the Electric Chair into pin combination by Kaz was awesome. Can't give this a really high rating due to its lenght, but this was just great fun, I really liked it. ****1/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I gotta lol at the double DQ at the end of the HBK/Austin match, I thought Stone Cold was helping the ref up so he could count but he fucking stunnered him ffs, then a replacment ref came in a smacked his head against the ropes whilst rolling in lmao

Then Micheals superkicking said referee, bloody classic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kazarian busting out the Japanese Ocean Cyclone Suplex makes the match worth seeing. But it's seriously a really fun match. I'm a fan. (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Velocity hidden gems keep on coming - a Billy Kidman vs Bobby Roode match :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Roode has worked a few WWE matches here and there. If only they knew what his potential was. 

Velocity & Heat were boss for the gems. It's why I'm working on watching Superstars right now. Except I just had to stomach a horrible Morrison vs Carlito match. Thankfully that's it for the Carlito matches and he'd be fired in 2 weeks following. Good riddance.

Speaking of a gem - on tap for the next Superstars is The Hart Dynasty vs Dudebusters II. Their first match was all kinds of fun. Definitely looking forward to the rematch.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

ATF said:


> *Paul London vs Kazarian, Velocity August 2005*
> Well, it's only about 4 mins. But it might just be the greatest 4 mins match I've ever seen - which isn't really saying much, but I guarantee you that this is much better than most TV matches today. The action was super fast-paced, the trades were stiff, the spots worked with the psychology, the crowd is into it, and the Electric Chair into pin combination by Kaz was awesome. Can't give this a really high rating due to its lenght, but this was just great fun, I really liked it. ****1/4*


Just watched this. 

Yeah this was a pretty fun and quick match. The commentary stood out for me too. Eric Bishoff on commentary! Pacman and Mario references! Even Josh mentioning the Super 8 tournament! Kind of caught me off guard but I liked it, match went by quick but I like short matches like this. Reminds me of how fun London used to be in the ring. Loved the pin that Kaz did, I've seen a variation of that move before but the arms of the opponent were crossed.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Billy Kidman vs Bobby Roode, Velocity 2004*
It's once again 4 mins, but again, an awesome way to spend 4 mins. While London/Kaz is just pure car-crash fun, this match is much more technically sound, but it's also much more generic as well. It's pretty much your basic standard wrestling match formula, but good thing they execute it awesomely. The crowd eats it up, both have good chemistry, and the match is pretty good. *****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I also watched a Tag match at WWF Metal - Kaz & Ryan Sakoda vs Kaientai. Wasn't bad, but considering the people involved, it was underwhelming. Didn't really help that crowd was shitting all over it. About **1/2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You seen the Essa Rios vs Samoa Joe & Essa Rios vs Low Ki matches? They're pretty quality, imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TNA hiring all DEM WWE REJECTS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Technically Kazarian was hired by TNA before his venture into WWE territory....

...Roode though. Absolutely he is a WWE reject. :side:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, is it just me or did almost every single TNA superstar/KO was a WWE employee at a point or another?

*Victoria vs Velvet Sky (Talia), Heat June 2005*
One of Velvet's best in-ring performances that I can call. It's mostly Victara beating Velvet up for most of the match, but good ol' Talia does get some cool moves (that twirt-a-whirl headscissors for example was pretty nice). And her selling is decent too. It's not setting the world on fire but it is a nice appetitizer of the Tara/Velvet matches on IW. **

*The Hurricane vs AJ Styles, Metal 2002*
Again, mostly a squash, but a good and entertaining one at that - the crowd eats it up, AJ Styles' facials and selling are almost Ziggler-good, and Helms' Vertabreaker is pretty flawless. Not bad. **1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well Joe, Ki, Styles, Talia, & Roode were all just tryouts. No contracts handed out. Alex Shelley had a match too. I think Kazarian's was the most legit of the bunch or was at least going to sign a full time deal, but backed out when he decided the company wasn't worth his time. Both on the aspect of toning his work down and not wanting to cut his hair.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And Daniels as well. He had matches with Droz and Taka Michinoku it seems - badass


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Daniels worked as one half of the Los Conquistadores in 2000. :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Anyone else a fan of the Big Show/Lesnar matches?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I am. I particularly enjoyed all of their matches, with the Stretcher Match at JD '03 being the standout for me.

Does anyone remember the Smackdown Royal Rumble in 2004?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Anyone else a fan of the Big Show/Lesnar matches?


Absolutely. Their Stretcher match might be my favorite match from 2003. Might is the caveat b/c nothing is going to beat Undertaker vs Angle.

EDIT ~ Of course. That's when Eddie wins the shot to face BROCK. My reaction as a 13 year old kid was grand. EDDIE


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

EDDIE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EDDIE THE GOAT

fml @ no Eddie vs Undertaker singles match ever taking place.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SD Royal Rumble = one of the best SD matches ever
Eddie/Brock (see what I did here, Marvel fans ) = one of the GOAT matches in WWE history

Eddie winning the WWE Title was such a mark out moment.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

The UK wrestling show 'WrestleTalkTV' uploads British matches on their channel. Worth taking a look. Some recognizable names on there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WrestletalkTV?feature=g-subs-u


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker HAD to participate in those classic matches with Heidenreich, Luther Reigns and A-Train. He had no time for vanilla midgets like Eddie and Benoit!

Seriously, I don't know what they were smoking with some of the pairings during 2003-2006 in Smackdown.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs A-Train matches were good. Crap vs Reigns is accurate. Heidenreich matches seems to differ on personal preference. I wasn't crazy about their matches, myself.

Benoit vs A-Train was pretty damn good too minus the scary botch. That's right, I'll always support A-Train/Tensai.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked the A-Train & Heidenreich matches (specially on SVS) but you can't seriously deny that it would have been much better if Taker had spent some of those PPV slots wrestling better wrestlers in the SD roster, specially Eddie and Benoit.

Would have been so great if they could have had Eddie vs Taker for the WWE Championship in Great American Bash 04 instead of that shitty angle with Paul Bearer, Heyman & the Dudleyz for instance.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Mid South is the name of the game baby.

*Chavo Guerrero (Sr.) vs Mr Olympia, Mid South (6/24/83)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J086O5SAeM4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JeonWgKwkw

Loved this, a really simple babyface vs heel match with Chavo (known to some as Chavo Classic in mid 2000s WWE when he managed Chavo Jr) being a really stellar fired up babyface and Olympia being a very graceful and theatrical bumper who takes all of Chavo's offence with applomb. Chavo is returning from an injury caused by Olympia so the bulk of the match is an extended squas with Olympia constantly trying to seize an opening and wear Chavo down with holds, only for Chavo's superior wrestling ability to allow him to constantly find a counter and continue the onslaught. LOVED Chavo grabbing the holes in Olympia's mask as he dragged him across the ring as well as using them to stop Olympia escaping a punch combo in the corner, little touches like that really make me smile in wrestling and this was no exception. Olympia takes everything wonderfully, getting great height on each bump and also adding a theatrical and showmanlike touch to a lot of his bumps. Finishing stretch is beautifully worked with Chavo beating the piss out of Olympia in the corner, the referee pulling him away allowing Olympia to stick something on his boot and hit a dropkick which Chavo bumps for in the most tremendous fashion to make you buy it as the finish, Olympia getting the pin but Chavo getting a foot on the bottom rope at 2.9 and then Olympia working a convincing sleeper hold as a surefire match ender only for Chavo to again fight out of the hold to a huge pop before shortly after hitting a great German suplex for the pin.

*Magnum TA vs Ted Dibiase, NO DQ (OKC), Mid South (5/27/84)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrM5sYq-hXA

Adored this, goes 9 minutes but these two know how to make of lesser length feel longer and in a good way. Dibiase is indescribably great as the cocky, cowardly, stooging and methodical heel whilst Magnum continues to demonstrate how great a babyface he was, especially one with tremendous fire and passion behind his comebacks. Dibiase attacks Magnum as he heads back to his corner immediately as the bell rings and dominates early by punching and launching Magnum to the floor and giving him a beating in the crowd. Magnum manages to turn the tide however and Dibiase's cowardly retreating is majestic and he bumps and eats every punch and bump with precision before turning the complexion of the match with the loaded glove which Magnum blades ridiculously off of. Next few minutes see both men in their best roles: Dibiase as that sinister and dangerous heel controlling a beaten man and Magnum building sympathy and heat for his comeback. Loved Dibiase's cockiness and toying with Magnum leading to him eating a top rope bump to the floor before Magnum manages to string a desperation comeback flurry and hits the belly to belly to survive and retain the belt by the skin of his teeth.


*Jim Duggan vs Ted Dibiase, NO DQ, Mid South (3/8/85)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx33BiOAuoQ

Oh sweet baby jesus, if you people still haven't watched a match in this series I emplore you to rectify that this instant. Sub 10 minute match which is just worked to perfection and typifies both characters: Dibiase the sleazy and scheming heel agains the heroic, tough as nails resilient hero in Duggan. Dibiase distracts Duggan enough to blind him with powder at the beginning and proceeds to beat the piss out of him relentlessly, opening up a nasty cut in the process. Dibiase is even better here in control as the calculating and methodical bastard with all the time in the world and Duggan is his equal when it comes to selling. He bumps and throws himself around the ring in a way that would impress Ricky Morton and he's got this brilliant delayed bumping and punch drunk selling throughout the workover that's just so entertaining and perfectly puts over Dibiase's beating. There were two bits of selling in particular, one a delayed bump where Duggan carefully splits his legs before collapsing almost with nothing left and another where he collapses to his side as he's trying to cling onto the ropes for support that struck me as truly exceptional selling. His comeback contains all the piss and vinegar that you desire, umpteen great punches which Dibiase sells and bumps for as match enders, there was one haymaker in particular where the footage sort of slows down at the precise moment the punch connects and it looks like a knockout blow as a result with Dibiase's bump being exquisite. Finish is a really great true to the bone heel screwjob with Duggan having his pin interrupted, colliding with Dibiase and inadvertantly taking out the referee long enough for Dibiase to get the loaded glove and strike Duggan just before he lands his punch to win the match. Heat is great and it sets up their feud ender match perfectly with the Glove once again buying Dibiase a victory he never should have had.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Just started downloading RAW '99, continuing my AE adventures! Finished watching the RR from '98, Austin winning comes as no surprise, he was the only one remotely built to win it... Taker/HBK was great, as per.

Goldust/Vader: **3/4
Minis: DUD
Rock/Shamrock: *** (Points for original finish, love heel, dickhead Rock)
LOD vs NAO: *1/2 (Urgh, why were LOD still there...)
RR Match: **1/2
HBK/Taker: ***3/4 (Weakest of their trilogy, but still great and MOTN)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

A mascarita sagrada match cannot be a DUD. That defies ALL logic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Despite being a big Taker mark, I have a slightly noob question (plz don't hurt me Cal )

When dud he first start using the 'Snake Eyes' move?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I liked the A-Train & Heidenreich matches (specially on SVS) but you can't seriously deny that it would have been much better if Taker had spent some of those PPV slots wrestling better wrestlers in the SD roster, specially Eddie and Benoit.
> 
> Would have been so great if they could have had Eddie vs Taker for the WWE Championship in Great American Bash 04 instead of that shitty angle with Paul Bearer, Heyman & the Dudleyz for instance.


Well he worked vs Benoit at Rebellion 2000 and I don't recall the match being special. Think I like the A-Train match at Summerslam more, tbh. So in the case of your statement I'm almost inclined to disagree, haha. But, for the sake of wanting an Eddie vs Undertaker match over the ones I got vs Heidenreich & Reigns, I'll agree.



Yeah1993 said:


> A mascarita sagrada match cannot be a DUD. That defies ALL logic.


Agreed. And for the record, it's not a DUD match. Pretty standard lucha minis type bout. I'm sure you've seen it.



zep81 said:


> Despite being a big Taker mark, I have a slightly noob question (plz don't hurt me Cal )
> 
> When dud he first start using the 'Snake Eyes' move?


Don't know when I can pinpoint and exact date, but I'm certain it was in the 90's. Really vague but that's my answer. Maybe he busted it out in his WCW tenure too. Only I really doubt it considering Snake Eyes was the move for Vinnie Vegas.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

No probs, thanks mate, I was watching a Taker match from 02 or 03 and he did the move, which Micheal Cole calling it Snake Eyed and got me wondering when he first started to use it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

A-Train > Tensai.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Almost sure he's used it against Mankind, which prompts me to feel I'm close to be correct. Being a lifelong Undertaker mark I hope I am, haha.

Ok now that I have the rest of the night to kill it's back onto Superstars. Next up: 5/27/10. BOURNE has a match. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Almost sure he's used it against Mankind, which prompts me to feel I'm close to be correct. Being a lifelong Undertaker mark I hope I am, haha.
> 
> Ok now that I have the rest of the night to kill it's back onto Superstars. Next up: 5/27/10. BOURNE has a match. :mark:


Im ashamed to say i cant remember him doing it in the 90's :| Saying that, there is alot of wrestling i cant remember from over 15 years ago lol!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well no matter how mega of a fan you are, some MINOR aspects such as a move which lifts the opponent up and drives them head first into the top turnbuckle could evade a memory or two.

It's forgivable.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I will go back to watching the greatness of NITRO 1996 soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

where did you leave off at?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

march or april 1996 i think


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No nWo yet. Almost there though.

Hurry up and get to 1997 for the DDP blow up.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DDP!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*insert smiley b/c there isn't one, but Primo has one?*

BANG :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DDP definitely needs a smiley. someone make one now!

SELF HIGH FIVE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

always worth a request in the specific thread. pretty easy to find a pic too I'd imagine.

I saw DDP live. Oh, and not counting when I met him in November. Totally forgot about that lolz. Was gonna reference how I was at Bash at the Beach 1995. FREE ADMISSION LETS BRING THE WHOLE FAMILY.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

you were there :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

100%

I can at least say I lucked out in going to ONE major show during the 90's. Tons to attend in California and I get one. Can't complain. Could be zero.

I was there for THE GIANT's first promo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

THE GIANT. :mark:'ed for him so much as the giant. 

i'll most likely miss raw tomorrow. not sure if thats a good or bad thing


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll hit you up with the 'tails on if it is worth a damn.

the way things are going, probably won't be barring one aspect you could youtube.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

PPV's in 2007 started off well, then from Judgment Day onwards it falls totally downhill... I'll give the star ratings later but I can say that the best PPV that year is BY FAR either WM 23 or Backlash.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fucking Christ Cody, don't tell me you were awake until 8 in the morning :lol

Gonna finish Wrestlemania III and probably watch IV tonight after class (seeing as how I have class twice a week )... And after I play 360 for a few more hours. FUCK I'm lazy as shit, hopefully get to Mania X by the time the ROYAL RUMBLE comes around and we hopefully get the return of BORK.

BORK FUCKING LASER <3 :brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Fucking Christ Cody, don't tell me you were awake until 8 in the morning :lol
> 
> Gonna finish Wrestlemania III and probably watch IV tonight after class (seeing as how I have class twice a week )... And after I play 360 for a few more hours. FUCK I'm lazy as shit, hopefully get to Mania X by the time the *ROYAL RUMBLE comes around and we hopefully get the return of BORK.*
> 
> BORK FUCKING LASER <3 :brock


Yes fucking please, you may hear me shouting very loudly if that happens..........dount we'll see him there though tbh :cuss:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Nash Youshoot. Someone actually questions him getting the finger poke of doom/goldberg dates mix up from the roundtable. He pretty much ignores the near year gap still lol and goes on to talk about how he didn't book himself to end the streak to get him self over and shit :lmao.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I am thinking of watching all the Wrestlemanias from number one to current day too. I think I may enjoy it and get all nostalgic..


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

They pay Brock too much money to have him turn up unadvertised. 


Whats Brock doing in the Rumble anyway , he has to get ready for his feud/jobbing to :hhh


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> *Fucking Christ Cody, don't tell me you were awake until 8 in the morning :lol
> *
> Gonna finish Wrestlemania III and probably watch IV tonight after class (seeing as how I have class twice a week )... And after I play 360 for a few more hours. FUCK I'm lazy as shit, hopefully get to Mania X by the time the ROYAL RUMBLE comes around and we hopefully get the return of BORK.
> 
> BORK FUCKING LASER <3 :brock


Like I previoudly said, I'm used to watching lots of PPV's in a day 

*Backlash 2007
*Hardys/Cade & Murdoch - ***1/2
Melina/Mickie - ***
Benoit/MVP - ***1/2
Lashley/McMahons & Umaga - **1/4
Taker/Batista - ****
Cena/HBK/Edge/Orton - ****1/2

Other than Benoit/Regal, what's the best Velocity match out there?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rey Mysterio Vs Jamie Noble – Velocity 01/05/2004


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks, I'll check that one out.

Oh, here's another hidden gem I found:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Kofi Kingston vs Michael Mgilicutty from this week Superstars, really deserves a watch. a ** 1/2, enjoyable match


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

I enjoyed Kofi/McGillicutty from Superstars a lot. A **1/4.

It deserves a watch!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No wonder I've been putting Superstars off for a few days. Kofi Vs McGuidldjfjdhsjghdfgtdgfdycutty sounds like the dullest match ever on paper that doesn't involve Chavo Jr.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHOA. For a second I thought Angle-Henry was a ******* classic :kurt


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rey/Noble is just amazing. ***3/4, maybe even ****. Definitely worth checking out.

Speaking of Rey, here's my Top 5 WWE-only Rey matches:

1 - w/Edge vs Angle & Benoit, No Mercy 02
2 - vs Jericho, The Bash 09
3 - vs Eddie, SummerSlam 05
4 - vs Angle, SummerSlam 02
5 - vs Jericho, Extreme Rules 09


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rey/Eddie is probably my favorite pairing ever. Might make a review project out of their WWE series soon.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How many matches did Eddie and Rey have in WWE? I know one in 2004 shortly after Wrestlemania, one in the first SD of 05 and their series that started from WM21 until the steel cage match.



Hailsabin said:


> Well he worked vs Benoit at Rebellion 2000 and I don't recall the match being special. Think I like the A-Train match at Summerslam more, tbh. So in the case of your statement I'm almost inclined to disagree, haha. But, for the sake of wanting an Eddie vs Undertaker match over the ones I got vs Heidenreich & Reigns, I'll agree.


And what are the chances that Benoit/Taker being paired in 03 would have been better than Rebellion 00? I say 10 out of 10. That's like saying Angle/Taker wouldn't work three or four years later based on their Fully Loaded match. (and completely ignoring that SD classic)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit in a long TV match or on PPV anytime during the 03-07 period would have rocked my fucking world.

At least we got Taker/Angle, Taker/Michaels, Benoit/Angle, and Benoit/Michaels.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Top 5 Rey Mysterio matches (WWE only)*

1) vs. Eddie Guerrero - SD 6/23/2005
2) vs. Randy Orton - SD 4/7/2006
3) vs. Chavo Guerrero - Great American Bash 2004 (Chavo's only good match. Like... ever.)
4) vs. Chris Jericho - The Bash 2009
5) vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2002


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is people's ratings on the Taker/HHH Series? Just watching the WM27 match atm, still not sure what rating i want to give for this, only the second time i have seen it tbh, HHH did almost everything to keep and beat 'Taker down, still not sure, and im not that high on the finish if im honest.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> How many matches did Eddie and Rey have in WWE? I know one in 2004 shortly after Wrestlemania, one in the first SD of 05 and their series that started from WM21 until the steel cage match.


Not too sure but the Smackdown '04 match is fantastic. It gets overshadowed by the 6/23/05 match but it's brilliant in its own right.



zep81 said:


> What is people's ratings on the Taker/HHH Series? Just watching the WM27 match atm, still not sure what rating i want to give for this, only the second time i have seen it tbh, HHH did almost everything to keep and beat 'Taker down, still not sure, and im not that high on the finish if im honest.


WM27 and 28 are awesome. Haven't seen WM17 in a long time but I remember it being good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And the hunt for hidden gems continues...


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> How many matches did Eddie and Rey have in WWE? I know one in 2004 shortly after Wrestlemania, one in the first SD of 05 and their series that started from WM21 until the steel cage match.


http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/rey-mysterio-351.html?opp=309


----------



## KYSeahawks (Nov 5, 2007)

Watched some random matches last night I have a soft spot for 96 and 97 WWE. I will say with all 3 matches they had something that not many matches have today which is a big time feel a match you must see when it happens type feeling.

Buried Alive Match 
Mankind vs. The Undertaker (In Your House:Buried Alive)-***

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart (Survivor Series 96)-**** 

Shawn Michaels vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (King of the Ring 97)-***1/2

Just really enjoyed the Buried Alive match a lot more than I expected it was brutal stiff and some cringe worthy bumps from Mankind. These two just had great chemistry and this is probably in the top half of their series. The only thing that kind of through the match off was a random small package spot on the grave that sent them tumbling down the hill. It had me laughing which might have not been the reaction they were going for.

The SCSA vs Hart match wasn't on the same level as their Wrestlemania match but was awesome in it's own way. They started with some good limb work and chain wrestling and slowly got more intense as the match went on. I also love the ending.

SCSA and Shawn Michaels were on point in this match their is just nothing to dislike about this match besides the ending and I would put this above their Wrestlemania 14 match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KYSeahawks said:


> Shawn Michaels vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (King of the Ring 97)-***1/2
> 
> 
> 
> SCSA and Shawn Michaels were on point in this match their is just nothing to dislike about this match besides the ending and I would put this above their Wrestlemania 14 match.


Yeah, i know a double DQ isnt always the best way to end a match lol, but the ending was funny as hell, Austin picking the ref up then immediatly stunnered him, then the replacement ref accidently smacking his head against the ropes whilst rolling in the ring : Then HBK superkicking him, just love that ending despite the DQ.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

zep81 said:


> What is people's ratings on the Taker/HHH Series? Just watching the WM27 match atm, still not sure what rating i want to give for this, only the second time i have seen it tbh, HHH did almost everything to keep and beat 'Taker down, still not sure, and im not that high on the finish if im honest.


WM27- ***1/2
WM28- ****

Neither match deserves the moniker of "classic" imo and Taker's weakest Wrestlemania matches out of the last 6 Wrestlemania's. WM27's first 10 minutes or so was good, but the rest of the match, while some good storytelling and amazing selling by Taker, doesn't keep my interest and is just plodding with the intermission between moves. Doesn't work for me. WM28 suffers from a similar problem, but the difference is the storytelling was much better and reached amazing levels, it wasn't just Taker selling but HHH did some great selling work as well. Had much more awesome spots and a sick finisher. Doesn't change the match gets a bit slow and kinda annoys me with HBK threatening to stop the match due to Taker being unable to continue, which should never happen in a Cell match to begin with, but yeah. I don't know that I'd put it with the classic cell matches of all time like Taker/HBK, Taker/Lesnar, Taker/Edge, and Batista/HHH, not to mention other better ones like Foley/HHH, Taker/Orton, Taker/Batista, and Taker/Mankind. 

Don't get me wrong, both matches are great, I'd consider the cell match awesome, but the WM27 match wouldn't be in my top 10 or even top 20 of 2011, however the WM28 match does make it for 2012.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I was in a Brock mood today, popped in the re-release of Here Comes The Pain on Blu-Ray and the match he had with Flair from RAW is way better than I thought it'd be. ***1/2 for that bitch.

:flair2 :brock


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BORK


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd also like to add that this thread is amazing, thanks for all the reviews you guys have posted and all the match recommendations. I've had a lot of fun reading it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How fitting that there's some BORK talk just as I finally got done watching his match with Taker at Unforgiven 02.

Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar (Unforgiven 2002) - ★★★★
- Great match that starts off slow for the first ten minutes but then becomes exciting after the first ref bump. And holy shit @ those two chair shots from Taker. Although the first one makes you worried about the CHAIR, lol. Finish was also good for the plan since they wanted them to officially settle it at the HIAC classic.

Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 3-3-06) - ★★★★
- Another good match between these two and excellent follow-up to their No Way Out masterpiece. Great callback spots and ring action throughout. I wonder, though, were the Spanish announcers only there so Mark could run from their announce table and splash into Taker at the end or did they have another purpose since they normally only work PPVs?

Randy Orton vs Super Crazy (Smackdown 3-3-06) - ★★½
- Short and sweet. Also the one occasion where Orton comes out to "This Fire Burns". The version they had for him wasn't all that out of place with him as Vince suggested. "Burn in My Light" is still better, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Koko Ware vs Ric Flair, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Memphis (11/18/85)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk0J38o6mkM

Great great title match with one of Koko's finest performances and Flair in arguably his career year. Loved all the little touches in this match, such as Koko wrestling a basic game and really putting in a masterclass 'fearless wrestler thrown into unfamiliar territory' performance and how Koko exploited the classic Flair flop by continually going for an immediate cover sensing Flair was sufficiently hurt. Early bulk of the match is worked beautifully with Koko having a counter for everything Flair throws at him and managing to not look outclassed by essentially just rolling out of any hold or grappling technique Flair tries to contain him. Loved how they built this into Flair taking breaks to the outside and re-group before suckering Koko with a knee to the gut and stiff chop to the throat to finally keep him down long enough to finally seize an advantage that had previously eluded him. Flair was his typically great self in control, pulling Koko's hair to keep him penned to the mat as he threatened to escape an armlock, kicking him in the midsection when the referee intervened to stop Koko repeatedly striking him in the corner and generally playing the arrogant and conceited champion to a tee. 

Koko's comeback features some great punches and build to his patented dropkicks as well as a couple of strong nearfalls before the fuck finish with Dundee blasting Dusty on the outside giving Flair ample chance to escape a Koko pin, knee him in the ribs and then pull his foot off the rope at a count of two giving him the win with the ref unaware Koko's foot was on the rope. Very simple but well structured match designed to lift Koko to a higher level and make him look competent and dangerous hanging hold for hold with the champion and making Flair look opportunistic and dastardly in once again defying the odds and overcoming a crowd hero.


*Jake Roberts vs Ric Flair, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Mid South (11/24/85)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiUs1MNrcNo

Another great title match with a wonderful pre match angle and build surrounding Jake's DDT and its ability to finally put Flair away. Flair mocks and chastises Roberts pre match for his less than traditional ring attire which he deems improper for a title match only to antagonise Jake to the point where he DDTs him out of instinct and Flair sells it like death. With the bell having not rung we then get Flair selling the DDT for a couple of minutes, before falling out of the ring and eventually walking to the back outraged at Jake's supposed cheapshot and sly tactic. Watts gets on the mic and orders Flair back to the ring and we then get 17 minutes of great back and forth action with Jake constantly working over Flair's neck and trying for the DDT on multiple occasions, with Flair finding new counters to block Jake's decisive weapon.

Jake was great as the house on fire babyface bombarding Flair with an unstoppable onslaught and controls a great portion of the match with Flair largely on the defensive and displaying his resiliency and toughness in surviving everything Jake throws his way, before a desperation headbutt to the groin buys him some time and takes Jake down. From here Flair works a brief control segment before a wonderful spot where Jake catches the kneedrop and immediately transitions to a standing position to lock on the figure four which Flair sells like death. Both men then trade brief intervals of leg work with Flair looking progressively weaker and immobile with each passing moment, only for Jake's small package counter to the figure four being countered by Flair who uses the bottom rope for additional leverage and somehow again escapes with his reign intact. Also loved how they used the classic 'rule of threes' sequence with Jake hitting two big knee lifts at crucial points in the match, only to miss on the third attempt and eat a big bump that Flair would immediately capitalise on by going for the figure four. Also worth acknowlodging just how hot the Mid South crowd was for Jake the entire time, quite surreal when you factor in his notorious heel work.


*Ted Dibiase vs Ric Flair, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Mid South (11/6/85)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUWys7uIIkI

Sadly this match only shows the match from the bell onwards instead of the entire pre match angle which may be the greatest face turn in wrestling history. Backstory: Dibiase from '83-85 was the main heel in Mid South with the fans clammoring for his blood whenever he and Duggan would meet. By fortune of circumstance he was able to get an NWA Title Match vs Flair, which marked arguably his greatest ever opportunity to win the big one. Pre match however Dick Murdoch sucker punches him and proceeds to give him a bloody beating with a stiff ring post spot and Dibiase bleeds on a scale not far from Eddie Guerrero at Judgement Day 2004. Rather than forfeit the match or let a fellow wrestler take his place, Dibiase fights on with a bloodied bandage over his cut as he recognises he may never get this opportunity again.

The actual match itself goes 7 minutes, but even without the pre match attack and subsequent story driven angle the ringwork here is exceptional. Dibiase gets in a good % of offence which makes sense as JR puts over his tenacity and what the belt means to Ted, and they time it just enough for his offence to come off as pure instinct and desperation as opposed to making Flair look weak. There's a blown abdominal stretch spot which comes off so organically with how much blood Dibiase has lost by that point and seeing him essentially collapsing onto Flair's prone body for a cover is a remarkable visual. Dibiase's babyface performance really can't be praised enough as he's constantly staggering and looking lethargic but valiantly fighting on through the pain whenever the ref threatens to throw out the match and the fans rally behind him so remarkably given his past convictions as the despicable heel of the territory. Finish is perfect with Dibiase eating a boot to the face and collapsing over the top rope to the floor and being unable to answer the count, before Murdoch arrives post match to hurt him some more and ends up giving him a brainbuster on the concrete floor. 

Such a great angle to get Dibiase over as a face and get Murdoch and Flair nuclear heat, the prestige of the NWA belt looked at an all time high thanks to Dibiase's inspiring selling and heroic performance and JR is right on point in putting over Dibiase's passion and respect for the business and desire to win the belt regardless of what cost it may inflict on his health.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hadn't seen Eddie/JBL Judgment Day '04 in years so decided to pop in Eddie's DVD. I'd have to re-watch a couple matches like the Wrestlemania 20 triple threat, Foley/Orton and Eddie/Brock but it's right up there with the best matches of 2004. Best chair shot in company history, best blade job in company history, and some of the most amazing visuals a WWE match has ever had make this what it is. The beauty of it is those intangibles and from my personal experience it's not a match that just holds up, it gets more memorable and unbelievable with each viewing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Randy Orton vs Super Crazy (Smackdown 3-3-06) - ★★½
> - Short and sweet. Also the one occasion where Orton comes out to "This Fire Burns". The version they had for him wasn't all that out of place with him as Vince suggested. "Burn in My Light" is still better, though.


Is that their awesome match? b/c I recall them having a really competitive match that I marked for heading into WrestleMania 22. Or maybe it was the Rumble. idk. I could look it up but I figured I'd ask first.



Saint Dick said:


> Hadn't seen Eddie/JBL Judgment Day '04 in years so decided to pop in Eddie's DVD. I'd have to re-watch a couple matches like the Wrestlemania 20 triple threat, Foley/Orton and Eddie/Brock but it's right up there with the best matches of 2004. Best chair shot in company history, best blade job in company history, and some of the most amazing visuals a WWE match has ever had make this what it is. The beauty of it is those intangibles and from my personal experience it's not a match that just holds up, it gets more memorable and unbelievable with each viewing.


(Y)

****1/2 - amazing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't know what the second best WWE match of 2004 is, but #1 is Guerrero v JBL with a bullet and whatever #2 is doesn't even come close.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is it weird that I put Eddie vs JBL as number one even though I rank both Benoit vs HHH vs Michaels matches at 5 stars?

b/c idc. :generico


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm a huge fan if the Eddie/JBL trilogy. Judgement Day is the best of the 3 by far but I think I rated them all at at least ***3/4


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Eddie/Rey from Smackdown 2004 is pure SEX!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Follows WrestleMania iirc. Yeah, sex indeed.

:mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Is it weird that I put Eddie vs JBL as number one even though I rank both Benoit vs HHH vs Michaels matches at 5 stars?
> 
> b/c idc. :generico


That sort of shit is the reason I don't use star ratings anymore. I think I'd have HHH/HBK/Benoit I over Eddie/JBL, but not by a whole lot.

2004 top 5 off the top of my head:

1. Triple H v Chris Benoit v Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
2. Eddie Guerrero v JBL - Judgment Day 
3. Randy Orton v Mick Foley - Backlash 
4. Brock Lesnar v Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out 
5. Chris Benoit v Triple H v Shawn Michaels - Backlash

Speaking of '04, who's the WOTY? Benoit or Guerrero?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll still use them, but fuck me does it get contradictory.

Benoit or Guerrero? Both. Don't think I could pick, honestly. Granted I believe I could name a few more Benoit matches that were better than Eddie. That's only b/c of Benoit's opponent being better. Eddie was stuck on Smackdown after all. Their roster in 2004 wasn't exactly their best. I'm sticking with giving both the honors.

I'll always look at 2004 for being their year + the year The Undertaker did about shit all too. Did he have a single good match that year? I'm gearing up to give the Heidenreich match another go, but except for that what else is there? Didn't like the JBL matches. vs Booker was average. TRASH vs Dudleys. OH. vs John-boy on Smackdown was probably is only "really good - great" match from the year. Including the Fatal Four Way from Armageddon. Eddie interactions saved that match for me. Taker's light schedule didn't help things out either.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rumble this Sunday. Looking forward to Punk/Rock and Del Rio/Show LMS II. Fingers crossed for an appearance from BROCK.



Hailsabin said:


> I'll still use them, but fuck me does it get contradictory.
> 
> Benoit or Guerrero? Both. Don't think I could pick, honestly. Granted I believe I could name a few more Benoit matches that were better than Eddie. That's only b/c of Benoit's opponent being better. Eddie was stuck on Smackdown after all. Their roster in 2004 wasn't exactly their best. I'm sticking with giving both the honors.
> 
> I'll always look at 2004 for being their year + the year The Undertaker did about shit all too. Did he have a single good match that year? I'm gearing up to give the Heidenreich match another go, but except for that what else is there? Didn't like the JBL matches. vs Booker was average. TRASH vs Dudleys. OH. vs John-boy on Smackdown was probably is only "really good - great" match from the year. Including the Fatal Four Way from Armageddon. Eddie interactions saved that match for me. Taker's light schedule didn't help things out either.


Yeah. Benoit has the Michaels matches, Orton matches, HHH matches and a bunch of good tags to go with the WM20 and Backlash triple threats. Plus Bad Blood v Kane which is excellent and Kane's best match. Eddie was amazing that year too but Benoit just edges it for me. You're right though, he did have better opponents.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just looked up Eddie's 2004, and it's amazing how he had such a career year with all of the bad workers he was paired up with. Bashams, Luther Reigns, Mark Jindrak. Seemed as if his tag team work was his highlight from a TV perspective + adding hin his great PPV bouts.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

2004 Top 5

1) HBK/HHH/Benoit WM 20 *****

2) HBK/HHH/Benoit Backlash ****3/4

3) Foley/Orton ****1/2

4) HBK/Benoit 2/16/04 ****1/4

5) Eddy/JBL Judgement Day ****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

It pains me that Benoit and Guerrero didn't have full careers. 

Switching topic to the current product; I respect Cena as a worker but I'd be lying if I said his character and booking hasn't been disgusting at times. His promo tonight sucked on all levels.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm far from a Cena hater, I just don't care for him. However, he was great tonight. Can't fathom why people trash especially since I had him on mute. Great promo I didn't hear. :troll



Edit: I know there's a Raw thread but eh, screw it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BOB BACKLUND.

*Top Five WWE Matches Of 2004*

1. Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XX) : *******
2. BROCK LESNAR vs Eddie Guerrero (No Way Out) : ***** 3/4*
3. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (Judgment Day 2004) : ***** 1/2*
4. Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (Backlash) : ***** 1/2*
5. Randy Orton vs Mick Foley (Hardcore ; Backlash) : ***** 1/2*

Doesn't scratch the surface of how awesome 2004 was. Evolution was balling so hard on RAW every week with awesome tag matches, SHELTON AND DA GAME, Benoit vs Kane, Benoit vs HBK, Benoit vs Orton, Benoit vs EVERYBODY, THE ROYAL RUMBLE, EDDIE' BALLIN' SO HARD, Survivor Series Elimination Tag, EDDIE-ANGLE (which gets shit on I know).

BROCK-Eddie is legitimately my highest ***** 3/4* at the moment, making it a top 13-14 (SEE HOW STEAMBOAT AND SAVAGE HOLD UP IN A MINUTE) WWE match for me ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

See, the only thing that pimps Smackdown from 2004 on your list is Eddie. Smackdown was pretty BLAH despite the year being pretty choice collectively.

Funny how that plays out.

I also want to chuck in how I always liked Rene Dupree. Just saying.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MEH. Smackdown had some good stuff (Taker-Heidenreich, Taker-JBL, JBL-Eddie Bullrope, Kidman-London No Mercy) but nothing ZOMGSOAWSUM. Eddie carried that show for the longest while before wrestling a horrible match with Kurt Angle @ Summerslam 2004, a match with LUTHER REIGNS @ NM 04, and finally that FATAL FOUR WAY that should have been 10x better than it was. WHY WOULD THEY TREAT HIM LIKE THAT GOD DAMNIT.

Then he goes on to wrestle Rey in a bad match at Wrestlemania XXI. He turns heel and his character work rivals some of the best in the history of wrestling, having an amazing series of matches with Rey and a fantastic damn near classic with Batista before his death. <3 EDDIE.

Rene Dupree huh ? Now THERE'S a strange reference. I remember how fucking annoying Tazz would get when calling his matches, specifically when Dupree used the french tickler and Tazz would sing "laaa I'm a french man , blah blah blah" and stuff like that.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Come one, come all to see WWE Monday Night Raw with our main event...

John Cena talks.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm not even going to bother to watch his promo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rene Dupree could have been someone if the followed up on his push vs Cena in 2004. Instead they went with Booker T. Got saddled with those horrible fucking matches. Ugggggggg

John Cena's promo was fine. b/c it felt like he found Rock's stash of COKE and decided it would be more fun to entertain a child, play grab-ass with a blonde dame, and insult a fat guy in a Paul Heyman shirt.

I had flashbacks to past nonsensical promos. :sabin


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 2004:

(****1/2)
1) Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL JD 2004
2) Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar NWO 2004
3) Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH WM20
(****1/4)
4) Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH BL 2004
5) Orton vs. Foley BL 2004

All top 5 happened between February and May. Pretty damn nice 3 months there.

Edit: Just noticed KingofKings and I have the same exact matches in our top 5. He just has the order wrong.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably going to have the same looking list. Won't create it till I give Undertaker vs Cena & Eddie vs Mysterio another go around. Those could top some bouts for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah, another Taker match i havn't seen, his Smackdown match with Cena, although i did recently watch the match at Vengeance..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thoughts?

It's pretty great, imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> It's pretty great, imo.


It is a really good match mate, back when Cena was actually interesting lol and the whole 'respect' thing was great, Taker just taking it to Cena, trying to teach him a lesson, he had him pinned for the three but just let Cena up, and the whole 'Ill make you famous' was awesome, Cena though played his part superbly i thought.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget their rematch on SD in 03 just before SS. Don't remember how good it was, but I'm sure it was at least a solid match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Such a damn good match. Taker was elite as fuck during 2003 ABA days. Cena was rising up and it was someone like Undertaker to show the best side of him too. Love it. Great match from a great show.

Indeed. It's out there. Have to relive it of course. Plus they locked up in the WWE Championship tournament leading up towards Backlash too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Cena:

Vengeance 03: ****
SD 04: ****

Can't wait for their Mania match. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk Bluray £9.99 http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/CM-Punk-Best-in-the-World-Blu-ray-2-Discs.html :mark:.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Thoughts on Cena/Angle No Mercy '03? A forgotten gem if you ask me. It's such a shame they could have never recreated the same magic in their '05 encounters.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Awesome match. ***3/4 for it. Angle actually looked great in it .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh, where are my manners. I forgot to dish out snowflakes.

I got Cena/Angle at ****. 

And going back a couple pages, I find that Eddie/JBL GAB '04 doesn't get enough love. Haven't seen it in years but my initial rating was ****. You guys say Taker/Trips was emotional? The drama and emotion of Eddie/JBL shits all over it. Now, that's pro wrestling!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

**** for Cena vs Angle.

AWESOME match. Makes all of the other matches between them look worse than they really are. _(b/c most of them are solid or crappy. it's a weird chemistry they have)_

Eddie vs JBL Texas Bullrope is great too. No doubt. It just gets lost in the shuffle next to what they accomplished at Judgment Day. That's such a beautiful performance by both men. They tore it up in both. Can't comment on the cage as I only saw that once back when it aired.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, Angle and Cena always had good chemistry. Their No Mercy match is my favourite, with No Way Out '05 as 2nd best.

Speaking of 05, that had a lot of tremendous matches I believe. SD, Raw and PPV's were always fully loaded with lots of them.
My top 5 of that year would be like this:
1 - Angle/HBK - WM 21 - *****
2 - Angle/HBK - Vengeance - ****3/4
3 - Elimination Chamber - New Year's Revolution - ****3/4 (This PPV was the utter definition of a one-match card)
4 - Batista/HHH - Vengeance - ****3/4
5 - Eddie/Rey - SummerSlam - ****1/2

Oh, and for the fun of it...
My Top 5 of 2004:
1 - HHH/Benoit/HBK - WM 20 - *****
2 - Orton/Foley - Backlash - ****3/4
3 - HHH/Benoit/HBK - Backlash - ****3/4
4 - Eddie/Lesnar - No Way Out - ****3/4
5 - HHH/HBK - Bad Blood - ****1/2 (liked this a hell of a lot more than almost everyone else)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Full listing for SV current sale http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Best-Sale-Ever/page1.html

Lol, they already sold out on the Punk Bluray! Glad I ordered mine!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Full listing for SV current sale http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Best-Sale-Ever/page1.html
> 
> Lol, they already sold out on the Punk Bluray! Glad I ordered mine!


Thanks for the link. Just had a little look around their store and they're selling both Edge DVD's for around £7, Undertaker's Streak DVD for £9, WrestleMania 28 for £9.

Very tempted to pick up all the above plus the Punk DVD.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> **** for Cena vs Angle.
> 
> AWESOME match. Makes all of the other matches between them look worse than they really are. _(b/c most of them are solid or crappy. it's a weird chemistry they have)_
> 
> Eddie vs JBL Texas Bullrope is great too. No doubt. It just gets lost in the shuffle next to what they accomplished at Judgment Day. That's such a beautiful performance by both men. They tore it up in both. Can't comment on the cage as I only saw that once back when it aired.


The cage match is really good too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Missed the earlier discussion re. Eddie vs JBL Judgement Day 2004. One of the best matches the company has ever done, arguably a top 15 candidate and forever will remain one of my most personal favourite matches. Great babyface performance from Eddie pre and post blood loss, brings the fire, passion and fury in everything he does towards JBL that gets you invested, then his bumping, selling and overally emotive performance after the chairshot just makes it impossible to not get caught up in the match and the direction the match is taking. JBL is the perfect cowardly and detestable heel stooging and bumping and then the brute on offence taking advantage of depleted and barely conscious Eddie, everything after the blood loss is some of the most emotional and visually lasting imagery in WWE history and the whole match feels like something out of the 80s and is a perfect homage to a classic babyface vs heel war.

The finish also doesn't get enough credit in terms of intelligence and furthering the feud. Eddie couldn't lose the match after all JBL had put him through as well as the beating he took and JBL couldn't lose due to Eddie's nearly immobile condition and the fact it was his first Main Event program. The finish puts over Eddie's hatred and fury at JBL and desire to hurt him regardless of the DQ whilst giving JBL a valid claim for a rematch with him having the perfect heel excuse that Eddie intentionally got himself DQ'd to save the title. Furthers the feud and allows the angle to continue till July and the Great American Bash whilst protecting both men who couldn't afford to lose the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crazy to think that I absolutely hated JBL/Eddie at the time. In fact I really didn't care for anything JBL did outside of his Undertaker feud for about... probably until he retired actually :lmao. Only going back and rewatching things made me appreciate him a hell of a lot more. JD match with Eddie is just stunning.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I thought Eddie/JBL was awesome the first time I saw it but it's grown on me even more over time. Top 20 match in company history. 

Everything after the blade job feels like it's from a realm other than pro wrestling. Like a movie almost. In a good way obviously.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

How 'bout that Cena promo from Raw? :lmao


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

JoeRulz said:


> How 'bout that Cena promo from Raw? :lmao


One of the worst of all time. Literally. So bad, I laughed my ass off.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This is what I said about it last night:



Saint Dick said:


> Switching topic to the current product; I respect Cena as a worker but I'd be lying if I said his character and booking hasn't been disgusting at times. His promo tonight sucked on all levels.


So bad. It was painful to watch/listen to.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And there was me thinking nobody could out suck Rock in a promo. Well done Cena. I'd preferred A ROCK PROMO to yours.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BOB BACKLUND.

Anybody wanna throw out a top 10 list of BOB matches to celebrate his HALL OF FAME status ?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I've been trying to find last nights Cena promo on Youtube, but can't find it. Anyone else find it? No, I'm not a masochist, just want another laugh and try to make some kind of sense of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 8 without putting much effort into shit:

1. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter - WWF 10/01/1981
2. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter (Cage Match) – WWF 21/03/1981
3. Bob Backlund Vs Adrian Adonis - MSG 18/01/1982
4. Bob Backlund Vs Greg Valentine - MSG 19/02/1979
5. Bob Backlund v Ken Patera (Texas Death Match) - MSG,19/05/1980
6. Bob Backlund v Don Muraco - Philly Spectrum 17/10/1981
7. Bob Backlund v Don Muraco (Texas Death Match) - MSG 21/09/1981
8. Bob Backlund v Ken Patera - MSG 21/01/1980


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I didn't find it laughable. It was cringe worthy.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

BOB


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> I didn't find it laughable. It was cringe worthy.


It was that, too. But I have a different kind of sense of humor. I cringe and laugh at stuff like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top five 2004 matches:
1. Benoit vs HBK vs HHH - WM20 - ★★★★★
2. Lesnar vs Eddie - NWO - ★★★★¾
3. Benoit vs HBK vs HHH - BL - ★★★★½
4. Orton vs Benoit - SS - ★★★★½
5. Orton vs Foley - BL - ★★★★½

Cena/Undertaker:
SD 03 (April) - ★★★¼
VEN 03 - ★★★¾
SD 03 (August) - ★★★★
SD 04 (June) - ★★★★

Eddie/JBL:
JD 04 - ★★★★½
GAB 04 - ★★★¾
CAGE - ★★★¾



Hailsabin said:


> Is that their awesome match? b/c I recall them having a really competitive match that I marked for heading into WrestleMania 22. Or maybe it was the Rumble. idk. I could look it up but I figured I'd ask first.


They've had other matches? All I know is that one is pretty solid for the time it gets. Orton was on fire weekly. Even got a good match out of Orlando Jordan.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Bob Backlund love! 

Some more matches to add to Big Z's list:
Backlund vs. Patterson (Steel Cage, MSG 9/24/1979)
Backlund vs. Hansen (Steel Cage, MSG 4/6/1981)
Backlund vs. Bret (Superstars 7/30/1994)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Top 8 without putting much effort into shit:
> 
> 1. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter - WWF 10/01/1981
> 2. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter (Cage Match) – WWF 21/03/1981
> ...


Pretty much my list with 2/19/79 vs Valentine being his best imo. I'd add the NJPW '80 match vs Hansen. I know he's had a few more matches in Japan and even later in BattlARTS, but the only other match that immediately sprang to mind was that Bret Hart match which goes 20-25 minutes from memory and sees Backlund turning at the end of the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still a bunch of "big" Backlund matches that I haven't even seen yet, like Hansen match, Patterson cage and a Larry Z match that got a vote or two in the WWF/E Top 100 poll.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't remember what PPV it was or anything because I was so young but one of my earliest wrestling memories of Backlund is him vs Bret in a throw in the towel match and Owen convinced his parents to throw in the towel for Bret then ran off celebrating. Brilliant.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

No Way Out 2002
16:36 Tag Team Turmoil - **1/2
11:03 Goldust vs Rob Van Dam - **3/4
7:16 Booker T & Test vs Tazz & Spike Dudley - *3/4
10:27 Edge vs William Regal - **
17:25 Undertaker vs The Rock - ***1/4
14:40 Kurt Angle vs Triple H - ***
21:34 Stone Cold vs Chris Jericho - **1/2

Overall: 7/10 - a very solid event which never got slow which is always nice. Goldust/RVD was the pleasant surprise of the night. I didn't expect it to be as good as it ended up being.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arnold Tricky said:


> I don't remember what PPV it was or anything because I was so young but one of my earliest wrestling memories of Backlund is him vs Bret in a throw in the towel match and Owen convinced his parents to throw in the towel for Bret then ran off celebrating. Brilliant.


Survivor Series 94.

Not a fan of that match myself though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on Cena vs HHH vs HBK SS 09? Pretty awesome imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 2005:
(****1/2)
1) HBK vs. Angle WM21
2) Batista vs. HHH Vengeance 2005
3) HBK vs. Benjamin Raw Gold Rush 2005
(****1/4)
4) Edge vs. Matt Hardy Unforgiven 2005
5) Undertaker vs. Orton WM21

On Eddie/JBL, can't say much about the match that hasn't already been said. #22 on my all-time list. The bullrope match... honestly I can't remember much at all and don't even remember what rating I had it at, and the cage match I had at ***1/2, but I do need to re-watch that as well.

Cena/HBK/HHH SVS 2009: ****

Awesome match. Despite them being hit or miss in matches, it was cool to see HBK and HHH exchanging blows again and they did a great job. The super kick at the start, which set the tone for the match is probably one of my favorite openings to a match. Some hard-hitting fun action from start to finish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 from 2005:

1. Batista/Triple H - Vengeance - ★★★★¾
2. Elimination Chamber - New Year's Revolution - ★★★★¾
3. John Cena/JBL - Judgment Day - ★★★★½
4. Undertaker/Randy Orton - Armageddon - ★★★★½
5. Money in the Bank - Wrestlemania 21 - ★★★★½
(in case MITB doesn't count) 6. Ric Flair vs Triple H - Taboo Tuesday - ★★★★½

For a top 50, here's my full list.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have it at **** as well, I kinda marked out by the DX implosion, too bad we didn't have HHH/HBK Retirement Matcb at WM 26 but what we got was amazing as well.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Just finished watching Lesnar vs Rock vs HHH from Global Warning '02. Really good match, had never seen it before or even knew that it existed. Was a blu-ray extra on the Lesnar set. A solid ***3/4 from me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheShowstappa92002 said:


> Just finished watching Lesnar vs Rock vs HHH from Global Warning '02. Really good match, had never seen it before or even knew that it existed. Was a blu-ray extra on the Lesnar set. A solid ***3/4 from me.


Definetly a forgotten match IMO, really like it myself, Brock had a brainfart moment when he went for that pin lol, but yeah i really like it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

**3/4 for that triple threat.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I think Rock/Lesnar/HHH was a good match also. I love how well protected and strong Lesnar looked coming out of that triple threat. Kicking out of what I think was like two finishers and not even eating the pin. I also enjoyed Triple H's performance in it as well with him picking his spots in the match to stay in control. Hate most of Triple H's work in 2002 but he did fine there.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Actually ended up liking Brock/Angle/Big Show better than the Global Warning triple threat. **** from me. A really strong match listing on the Brock set. 12 ***+ matches in my eyes. I always enjoyed Brock, but this set really made me a big fan of the guy. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock is, and always will be, one of my all time favorites, i dont care if his time was short (relative to most other superstars) but his general output is fantastic. I can watch him in any wrestling environment, classic match, squash match, or just general wrestling activity.

Do wish he could have been used more but i loved his fued with Cena, and of course the match, still undecided on the match against HHH though, need a second watch...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's AWESOME.

Fuck the naysayers :brock


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of Brock, watched No Way Out '04 v Eddie today. It's one of the best 'underdog babyface toppling the monster heel' matches WWE has ever done. Off the top of my head the only matches that worked that dynamic better are Cena/Umaga LMS and Cena/Lesnar. 

BROCK = best monster heel?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock isn't exactly a monster heel in my view, he's just that big, musculated, agile and badass bully that loves to toy with inferior forces. In terms of gimmick execution, Mark "Ratingz" Henry may be the GOAT monster heel.

Speaking of him, I rewatched his match with Big Show at Vengeance and I'm still astonished at how good it was. DAT FAT PSYCHOLOGY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since we're talking about BORK, I'll try rating as many of his PPV matches as possible.

vs Jeff Hardy - Backlash 02 - N/A
vs Hardyz - Judgment Day 02 - N/A
vs RVD - King of the Ring 02 - N/A
vs RVD - Vengeance 02 - ★★★½
vs The Rock vs Triple H - Global Warning - N/A
vs The Rock - SummerSlam 02 - ★★★★¼
vs Undertaker - Unforgiven 02 - ★★★★
vs Undertaker - No Mercy 02 - ★★★★½
vs Edge - Rebellion 02 - N/A
vs Big Show - Survivor Series 02 - N/A
Royal Rumble 03 - ★★★½
w/ Chris Benoit vs Team Angle - No Way Out 03 - ★★★
vs Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania XIX - ★★★★
vs John Cena - Backlash 03 - ★★★¼
vs Big Show - Judgment Day 03 - ★★★★
vs Big Show vs Kurt Angle - Vengeance 03 - ★★★★
vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam 03 - ★★★★¼
vs Undertaker - No Mercy 03 - ★★★½
Team Lesnar vs Team Angle - Survivor Series 03 - ★★★½
vs Hardcore Holly - Royal Rumble 04 - ★½
vs Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out 04 - ★★★★¾
vs Goldberg - Wrestlemania XX - ★
vs John Cena - Extreme Rules 12 - ★★★★½
vs Triple H - SummerSlam 12 - ★★★½

Definitely got some catching up to do with his 2002 stuff.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Brock isn't exactly a monster heel in my view, he's just that big, musculated, agile and badass bully that loves to toy with inferior forces. In terms of gimmick execution, Mark "Ratingz" Henry may be the GOAT monster heel.
> 
> Speaking of him, I rewatched his match with Big Show at Vengeance and I'm still astonished at how good it was. DAT FAT PSYCHOLOGY.


I take your point. He's not a typical monster heel like Henry, Show or Umaga but to me he played that role in those matches I mentioned. Him wiping Cena's blood on his chest is as monstrous as I've seen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Him wiping Cena's blood on his chest is as monstrous as I've seen.


One of THE WTF :shocked: moments in WWE in a long time, esp considering the current climate. Oh and him picking the ref up :


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

zep81 said:


> One of THE WTF :shocked: moments in WWE in a long time, *esp considering the current climate*. Oh and him picking the ref up :


Yeah exactly. Him taking off the gloves against HHH was also supremely badass.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Oi you. Watch. NOW.

Legit top ten WWE MOTY, IMO. ****-**** 1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> BOB BACKLUND.
> 
> Anybody wanna throw out a top 10 list of BOB matches to celebrate his HALL OF FAME status ?


OOH! OOH! 

v Antonio Inoki 7/27/78, 11/30/79, 12/6/79
v Greg Valentine 2/19/79
v Ken Patera 1/21/80, 5/19/80
v Hulk Hogan 4/12/80
v Larry Zbyszko 10/11/80
v Sgt. Slaughter 1/10/81, 3/21/81
v Stan Hansen 2/16/81
v Don Muraco 9/21/81, 10/17/81
v Adrian Adonis 1/18/82
v Buddy Rose 8/30/82
v Nobu Takada 12/28/88
v Bret Hart 7/3/94, 11/23/94


Fuck a top ten. Watch all of those @ everyone.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BOB was the original king of the ****** match before it was cool to have a ****** match in the WWF. What would the defining BOB classic be ? The cage match with Slaughter ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Really haven't seen much Bob, aside from his later WWF days when he wasn't really active and was a raving lunatic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I ADORE his matches with Bret (bar the WM XI match obviously, which I actually haven't seen before), the Superstars match and the Survivor Series match were both things of beauty in their own way. I <3 me some BOB from time to time.

Where would you rank the guy in terms of all time WWE Champions ?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He has the best WWE Championship reign without a doubt. I seriously don't think anybody even comes close. Of those 18 matches I listed, I think fourteen are matches where he's the Champion, and I could seriously say it's possible that up to eight of those matches are top 50 WWE matches ever. There are three-four of them I could see in a top ten. More of those 18 overall (well 14, the Inoki ones are New Japan & the Takada one is UWF) like the Rose and Zbsyzko matches could be top 100.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Since Backlund's going in the Hall Of Fame and more new fans will get more familiar with his name/legacy I think WWE should put together a documentary on his career and feature most of the matches listed in here. He is one of the most important stars in the history of this company, arguably the greatest WWF Champion of all time, and one hell of a wrestler. I think a lot of fans would appreciate and buy Bob Backlund DVD. I know I would. We should demand it for WWE to make one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> BOB was the original king of the ****** match before it was cool to have a ****** match in the WWF. What would the defining BOB classic be ? The cage match with Slaughter ?


Defining BOB classic for me would be the match with Slaughter before the cage. Always liked it slightly more than the cage. Not by much though.

I watched the Billy Graham Timeline yesterday, essentially covering a couple of months before he beat Bruno to just after Bob beat him, and fuck, he didn't half shit all over Backlund. Saying he never should have been given the title and he never drew. Which is fucking crazy because the guy is like the 6th greatest draw ever or something (according to that list Meltzer put up a few years ago anyway). I had heard rumours that some guys (Verne and possibly Eddie Graham) had gotten together and bet to see if they could convince Vince Sr to make BOB champion because him as champ was laughable or something, and Billy somewhat confirms that Vince was talked into it by those guys and someone else (I forget who). Billy kept on about how it was a mistake and shit but Vince was too proud to change anything after the belt was put on Bob. Maybe, just maybe, Bob was actually fucking DRAWING MONEY so they kept it on him. FOR NEARLY SIX YEARS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Since Backlund's going in the Hall Of Fame and more new fans will get more familiar with his name/legacy I think WWE should put together a documentary on his career and feature most of the matches listed in here. He is one of the most important stars in the history of this company, arguably the greatest WWF Champion of all time, and one hell of a wrestler. I think a lot of fans would appreciate and buy Bob Backlund DVD. I know I would. We should demand it for WWE to make one.


The problem with a Backlund DVD is you'd be missing out on some of his best matches because you don't really want more than one 60 minute draw. I guess there aren't THAT many, though. Backlund matches can go a LONG time though and they'd have to choose so they would have a decent amount of matches plus some of the better ones. Regardless, if they put a good comp together people could always see it as a primer and check more Backlund out following that.

I really, really, really hope with this Backlund thing right now they release a couple of unseen stuff on WWE 24/7 or something. I mean shit, the Greg Valentine broadway was released on WWE 24/7 a few years ago before anywhere else wasn't it? And that's a top 20 (at worst - I could see it top 5) WWE match ever. Imagine what else they could have stashed away that isn't around the DVD comp/"tape trading" circles. I have total faith in Backlund to have the single greatest WWE match of all time.....that might be in their vault and the webgraps world just doesn't know about it. There's another Aridan Adonis match from 1982 that isn't "out there" yet. Considering their amazing match on 1/18/82, well imagine how good it could be.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> I watched the Billy Graham Timeline yesterday, essentially covering a couple of months before he beat Bruno to just after Bob beat him, and fuck, he didn't half shit all over Backlund. Saying he never should have been given the title and he never drew. Which is fucking crazy because the guy is like the 6th greatest draw ever or something (according to that list Meltzer put up a few years ago anyway). I had heard rumours that some guys (Verne and possibly Eddie Graham) had gotten together and bet to see if they could convince Vince Sr to make BOB champion because him as champ was laughable or something, and Billy somewhat confirms that Vince was talked into it by those guys and someone else (I forget who). Billy kept on about how it was a mistake and shit but Vince was too proud to change anything after the belt was put on Bob. Maybe, just maybe, Bob was actually fucking DRAWING MONEY so they kept it on him. FOR NEARLY SIX YEARS.


Great point. No way a company keeps the title on Backlund for over half a decade and he's not a sustainable draw as the WWF Champion. It just sounds like another bitter rant from Graham tbh. I sure he felt he should have held the title for longer than 9 months but WWF usually gave babyface champions extensive runs like that. WWF had always been about dominate babyface champions overcoming heel challengers. The NWA was in reverse with more babyface challengers chasing the heel champions like Race or Flair for extensive programs.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Backlund's induction reminds me of him vs. Hulk Hogan off Hogan's unreleased series, was very surprised at how good it was.
May watch some more Backlund as that was the first and only match i've seen of his.



Clique said:


> Great point. No way a company keeps the title on Backlund for over half a decade and he's not a sustainable draw as the WWF Champion. It just sounds like another bitter rant from Graham tbh. I sure he felt he should have held the title for longer than 9 months but WWF usually gave babyface champions extensive runs like that. WWF had always been about dominate babyface champions overcoming heel challengers. The NWA was in reverse with more babyface challengers chasing the heel champions like Race or Flair for extensive programs.


Yeah Graham did sound pretty bitter about it in his WWE dvd, even changing his gimmick because Mcmahon Sr. didn't turn him face.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Night Of Champions 2012
12:06 Miz vs Mysterio vs Rhodes vs Cara - **1/2
8:30 Team Hell No vs Truth &Kofi - *3/4
6:40 Antonio Cesaro vs Zack Ryder - **1/4
18:24 Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton - ***3/4
6:38 Layla vs Eve - *1/2
14:25 Alberto Del Rio vs Sheamus - ***
26:55 CM Punk vs John Cena - ****

Overall: 8/10 - I was sure Ziggler/Orton would be MOTN but Punk/Cena exceeded my expectations and stole it away. Two amazing matches and an all around good card made this a great event to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's a good show, but FUCK that opener. Fuck it to fucking HELL actually. Seriously,probably one of the worst openers in company history, and one of the worst matches in the career of Rey Mysterio. I legitimately feel bad for that guy nowadays between the physical pain and what I perceive to be mental anguish teaming with Sin Cara. A match that has Miz AND Sin Cara in it ? FUCK.

For the record though, I'd still put MIZ over Sin Cara :lol


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Uh, I thought that opener was fine. If anything, the back and forth exchanges between Mysterio & Sin Cara was the most enjoyable part of the match to me. I think Sin Cara has improved but unfortunately I don't remember the last time I even saw him on TV. Maybe he's been injured and I forgot about it. 

I think WWE just paired him up with Rey with their fingers crossed, hoping that alone would make him a star. That's pretty lazy though and they should've focused a little more on the actual material itself. Oh well, future endeavored!

As for The Miz, he's total shit. They really have him using Flair's signature move now? He botched it completely on Raw and it made me cringe. I'm not sure what people see in him. I mean... I want him to do well, but his mic and ring skills do absolutely nothing for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If literally EVERY WRESTLER IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE didn't use the figure four at some point, I might actually care about the whole MIZ-FLAIR connection. I don't care if Flair is paired with fucking RYBACK, if the GOAT is on my TV screen I'm going to fucking watch.

GOATS GONNA GOAT :flair3


----------



## Yuffie Kisaragi (Sep 24, 2005)

*I tried to sell the few WWE DVDs I had left (Other than my Jericho and the both Edge ones of course ) on a local page on Facebook and never got any good deals on them someone even offered $20 for all of them! wtf! Here is a list of the ones I was selling if anyone could give me a good price I should ask for these or maybe even you could offer me something lol. There arent that many and I don't want much for them but 20 Dollars for all was some bs I still remember buying alot of these when they first came out.

Hulk Hogan Anthology 
Bret Hart:Best There Is, Best There Was, Best There Ever Will Be
Jeff Hardy:My Life My Rules 
No Way Out 2008
TLC 2009
Night of Champions 2007
Night of Champions 2008
Royal Rumble 2010
Armageddon 2002
Shawn Michaels:From The Vault 
Shawn Michaels My Journey 
Shawn Michaels HeartBreak and Triumph 
Backlash 2006
Backlash 2007
Backlash 2008
Backlash 2009
Big Show:A Giants World 
Rowdy Piper Born to Controversey 
Best of WWE RAW 2010 
Ladder Match 
Hart and Soul 
Best of Saturday Nights Main Event (3 Discs)
Brian Pillman 
Curt Hennig Mr Perfect 
Rey Mysterio 619
Best WWE Managers
WWE Allied Powers Best Tag Teams 
Hell In A Cell 2011
Best of King of The Ring 
WrestleMania 22
Randy Savage Ultimate Collection
The Rock:Most Electrifying Man*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Figure-four is a move passed around a lot but some people do their own thing with it or just flat out have no clue how to apply it. Shawn Michaels didn't even learn how to pull it off right until 2009 or something. Pretty sure he even puts it on Flair in their Mania match and gets it completely fucked up. FFS I knew how to put it on properly within 6 months of watching wrestling.

Did they pair Ric with the Miz? Really?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For one night, yeah. And apparently the figure four has stuck too.

So, rewatched Money in the Bank 2010 for the millionth time or whatever. It's still great. WWE 2010 guys. It's a FORCE. Well, I dig the hell out of it. More Superstars time? I think so. Next edition has a Chavo Guerrero Jr vs MVP main event and it STILL blows away what's on tap for this week's edition of Superstars in 2013. _(if you don't know it looks AWFUL)_


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since I have Best of Raw/SD 11 and Best of PPV 11 I think I might try my hand at a 2011 project of sorts. Rey/Cena though. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm still sort of working on that. Only a few PPVs left in the mix & then the rest of NXT & 5 months worth of Superstars.

It's on the backburner however b/c I'm currently doing the same project with WWE in 2010 - like I stated. _(ironic that we're both pursing these atm)_


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I thought about going for the 2010 sets since SV are having that huge sale but I looked at the contest listing for both and decided not to. 2010 is general is a bit of a blur to me anyways. I was on a study abroad year and had a lot of other things going on. The only things I really remember are Batista turning heel, Nexus and Orton turning face. Good memories of the big WWE vs. Nexus tag match though, then Cena literally burying Barrett under all those chairs. Taker/HBK at Mania from ringside no less was without a doubt the highlight for me. 

Since I now have the entire 2000 television and PPV year though, I just might do something with that instead. Already watched the first 2 Raw's and SD's of the year. Can't wait to get to the Rumble. Foley just called in Cactus Jack on SD and Trips shit a brick lol. Good times.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

whats your fav rey/eddie match out of their series?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I thought about going for the 2010 sets since SV are having that huge sale but I looked at the contest listing for both and decided not to. 2010 is general is a bit of a blur to me anyways. I was on a study abroad year and had a lot of other things going on. The only things I really remember are Batista turning heel, Nexus and Orton turning face. Good memories of the big WWE vs. Nexus tag match though, then Cena literally burying Barrett under all those chairs. Taker/HBK at Mania from ringside no less was without a doubt the highlight for me.
> 
> Since I now have the entire 2000 television and PPV year though, I just might do something with that instead. Already watched the first 2 Raw's and SD's of the year. Can't wait to get to the Rumble. Foley just called in Cactus Jack on SD and Trips shit a brick lol. Good times.


So many aspects of the year really entertain me. All the ones you listed did, plus CM Punk's antics the entire year (SES - RAW announcer - leader of New Nexus), Miz's rise, NXT, Masters being the KING on WWE Superstars, Kane's World Championship reign + his great MY BROTHER promos, Hart Dynasty getting their time in the sun, DOLPH ZIGGLER, Drew McIntyre mattering and giving Kofi Kingston what seems to be his best match ever, the man DASHING Cody Rhodes, & the best thing ever aka Old School Monday Night RAW. Plus so more goodness I could mention, but you get the gist of it. I mark for the year.

 @ that promo. Tears away the Mankind shirt. Reveals Cactus Jack underneath it. Doesn't Foley destroy some FAKE Foley during that time too? I'm almost certain he does b/c Game was using the phony one to poke fun at Mankind.



King Kenny said:


> whats your fav rey/eddie match out of their series?


WCW ~ Halloween Havoc 1997
WWE ~ Smackdown 5/22/05


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah, I'm doing a WWF 2000 project right now. I've never actually watched a bunch of episodes from it as I started watching wrestling full-time around the year 2002 or so. Outside of the obvious matches like HHH/Cactus, HHH/Rock (at Backlash), and Rock/Benoit, I have no clue what the expect. I heard this was the GOAT year in WWF though so I decided to give it a watch.

Just started it though lol. About to finish the January 10th edition of Raw is War.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Expect hot crowds, great segments, and generally even greater matches. Awesome roster at that time. Much better than where it was in 1998 or 1999 for the Attitude Era.

Don't expect much from WrestleMania that year, however. For how great the year was - the WrestleMania sucked.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah, I've heard crappy things about that Wrestlemania outside of the Ladder match, Angle/Benoit/Jericho, and HHH/Rock/Mankind/Show. Not really looking forward to it but w/e.

The 01/10/00 edition of Raw is p. good. The opening promo where the entire roster threatened to walk out was nicely done. We had a few decent-good matches as well with Edge/Venis and HHH/X-Pac both being fine for the time they received. The eight man tag main event was also really, really fun and nicely done as well.

Can't wait to watch Cactus/HHH again, especially now that I've actually watched the build-up to it. I haven't seen it in years but I remember it being :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Has anyone ever watched The Wrestling Classic PPV from 1985? It sounds good on paper (SAVAGE vs DYNAMITE KID :mark: )


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah. Trips used the fake Foley to make fun of the real Foley in various skits etc. The 'Have A Bad Day' series is :lmao. Then when Foley gets reinstated he smacks Tori on the ass and then Kane ends up murdering the fake Foley instead of him lol. The promo is awesome though and that face HHH makes where he looks like he's just see a ghost puts the whole thing over even more. Fantastically underrated feud imo that provided equally fantastic matches. 

*GOON*, I'm one Smackdown ahead of you. Watched that yesterday I think it was. This is the show *Sabin *and I are talking about where Mankind morphs into Cactus Jack and the beginning of the Big Show/Rock tension begins as well. Can't wait to get to the Rumble itself. Hardys/Dudleyz Table match and of course, Foley/HHH Street Fight. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Has anyone ever watched The Wrestling Classic PPV from 1985? It sounds good on paper (SAVAGE vs DYNAMITE KID :mark: )


It's SHITE. Matches are all either too short to be good (the ones that look good on paper) or are far too long than they deserve (the ones that look shite on paper). Avoid it.

:mark: Punk Bluray just arrived. Already seen it. And got a bluray copy from Platt when it first came out... but its nice to own it original .

All this talk of 2000 makes me want to continue with my project. Almost caught up with SD as far as I got with Raw, and I think I'm close with HEAT as well (Heat is sooooo much fun in 2000 btw). But I need to get these RR reviews done. Need to watch 08 and post today. Bah. Not a fan of this show at all.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Yeah. Trips used the fake Foley to make fun of the real Foley in various skits etc. The 'Have A Bad Day' series is :lmao. Then when Foley gets reinstated he smacks Tori on the ass and then Kane ends up murdering the fake Foley instead of him lol. The promo is awesome though and that face HHH makes where he looks like he's just see a ghost puts the whole thing over even more. Fantastically underrated feud imo that provided equally fantastic matches.
> 
> *GOON*, I'm one Smackdown ahead of you. Watched that yesterday I think it was. This is the show *Sabin *and I are talking about where Mankind morphs into Cactus Jack and the beginning of the Big Show/Rock tension begins as well. Can't wait to get to the Rumble itself. Hardys/Dudleyz Table match and of course, Foley/HHH Street Fight. :mark:


The promo where Mankind transforms into Cactus Jack is just awesome. It's a pretty long promo but it never seems to drag or get boring. The Foley/HHH feud so far is just awesome so far and I assume it stays that way until the Hell in a Cell match the next month at the No Way Out Pay Per View.

The TV match quality so far is pretty poor outside of a few matches (outside of the Rock/D-Generation X handi-cap match on the 01/03/00 edition of Raw and the eight man tag on the 01/10/00 edition of Raw as well) but it's understandable considering that they seem to have 7-9 matches on every show so most matches have to be short. I've found a few fun matches though that only get a couple of minutes (Rikishi/HHH on the 01/06/00 edition of Smackdown for the WWF Championship and Venis/Edge on the 01/10/00 edition of Raw for the European Championship).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shame then, Savage/Dynamite had potential to be one of the greatest matches ever. Did these two ever wrestle each other than The Wrestling Classic?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea, but honestly I don't care . DK is hugely overrated and I've never cared for much that he's done.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watch some of his early work with the The British Bulldogs. I seriously liked it. But again, opinions are opinions. You liked the Taker/Show Punjabi Prison, I despised it. 

My favourite Rey/Eddie match is their Ladder Match at SummerSlam 05. Hugely underrated imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ladder match is kinda sucky, compared to the rest of their awesome 05 series. *** at most. GAB is the hugely underrated match of the series. Some of the best work I've seen from Guerrero, which is REALLY saying something!

Speaking of sucky... watching the 08 RR. First 2 matches were bad.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I really hate the Eddie/Rey ladder match.

Sloppy, odd spots and you can clearly see spots being called by both men. I think it's **** at most. I put it in the same category as Christian/Benjamin from TLC 09, just really shit considering who was in the matches.

Benjamin/Christian gets a **1/2* for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah Shelton/Christian match is fucking TERRIBLE. Far, far worse than Eddie/Rey.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Might start reviewing the Eddie/Rey series today. Not sure if I've ever seen the ladder match and can't remember Wrestlemania. Those are probably their most disappointing matches but looking forward to Smackdown '04 and the other '05 matches.

Was Christian/Shelton actually bad? I remember it being decent. My memory is awful though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They also have another match in the first Smackdown of 2005. That was a good one too and I think the match where they try to "out-cheat" each other. My least favorite has to be Great American Bash. Great heel work from Eddie but it was so distracting and ruined the flow every time he would exit the ring just to taunt Dominick. And the kid looking bored didn't help things either.

Eddie's really lucky his death came after his face turn and not in the middle of that bizarre angle. Just imagine how fucked kayfabe would have been and those who took wrestling seriously would have probably thought "good riddance".


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed odd spots, but I don't know, I just tend to symphatize with this match a lot for what's worth. The Dominick storyline sucked ass, but imo the execution of it (and pretty much the whole Rey/Eddie feud) was almost flawless. And to me, this is one of those rare occasions where I really wanted the heel (Eddie) to lose. The crowd and drama alone stick it to me.

Eddie has a lot of underrated classics up his sleeve - like the No DQ match with Edge. Shame we never got Eddie/HBK :sad:


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*WWF Smackdown – 01.13.00*
_New Age Outlaws vs. Bradshaw- ½*
Too Cool and Rikishi vs. Hardcore Holly, Crash Holly, and Al Snow- *
Test vs. Gangrel- DUD
The Hardy Boyz vs. Prince Albert and The Big Bossman- ½*
Kurt Angle and Steve Blackman vs. Edge and Christian- *1/4
New Age Outlaws vs. Faarooq- DUD
The Godfather and D’Lo Brown vs. The Headbangers- DUD
Chris Jericho vs. Kane- *1/2
The Rock and Big Show vs. Triple H and X-Pac- *3/4_​
A whole lot of shit on this show outside of the opening promo with Mick Foley and Triple H, where Foley transformed into Cactus Jack. Angle and Blackman vs. Edge and Christian could have been pretty good had in not been cut short, which is a damn shame. Jericho/Kane was fine for the time it received, but I'm really looking forward to the culmination of the Jericho/Chyna feud so we can get Jericho on his own. The tag team main event was fine as well with the Big Show turning heel on The Rock after the match. As good as Raw has been the last two weeks, Smackdown has been pretty awful so far in the year 2000 outside of a few promos and the Rikishi/HHH main event from January 6th.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No DQ match with Edge isn't underrated, its been released on DVD a couple of times too so people know about it and it always gets praise when brought up.

Personally I think its overrated . Its good, but not great. Too many spots for the sake of spots for my liking.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Chris Jericho vs The Rock- Royal Rumble 2002 ****
*
I enjoyed watching this match, but this is not my favorite Jericho vs. Rock match. My favorite is Jericho vs. Rock at No Mercy 2001. This is also not my favorite Rock match from the Royal Rumble. My favorite is the Rock vs. Mankind I Quit match at Royal Rumble 1999. Jericho looked good in this match, but The Rock proved that Jericho was not good enough by kicking out of two lionsaults and a Rock Bottom. He also didn’t tap out to the Walls of Jericho and kicked out of a pin after he was hit with the championship belt. Jericho had to perform three illegal moves in a row (low blow, using the exposed turnbuckle as a weapon, and pin with legs on the rope) to defeat The Rock. The match didn’t make The Rock look bad because Jericho had to cheat to win, but I think it made Jericho look like a weak champion because it was obvious that The Rock should have won the match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The thing is that it doesn't mentioned anywhere close to as much as it deserves (alike the Benoit/Regal/Finlay matches) 

Another Eddie-related underrated match is him & Chavo vs WGTT @ Backlash 2003. Easily MOTN of that event (and considering it had a fucking loaded card, it says a lot).

Jericho/Rock RR is good, but I prefer their No Mercy match by a large margin.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Big Z said:


> I watched the Billy Graham Timeline yesterday, essentially covering a couple of months before he beat Bruno to just after Bob beat him, and fuck, he didn't half shit all over Backlund. Saying he never should have been given the title and he never drew. Which is fucking crazy because the guy is like the 6th greatest draw ever or something (according to that list Meltzer put up a few years ago anyway). I had heard rumours that some guys (Verne and possibly Eddie Graham) had gotten together and bet to see if they could convince Vince Sr to make BOB champion because him as champ was laughable or something, and Billy somewhat confirms that Vince was talked into it by those guys and someone else (I forget who). Billy kept on about how it was a mistake and shit but Vince was too proud to change anything after the belt was put on Bob. Maybe, just maybe, Bob was actually fucking DRAWING MONEY so they kept it on him. FOR NEARLY SIX YEARS.


Bob was a huge draw as the champ, and the last of dying breed in WWF before the transformation into the "soap opera" company. He was famous for wrestling other big champions, like Robinson, Race, Inoki, Patera and Flair. Huge money was made. Fuck the jelaous haters. And I like Graham.

Do you know he successfully defended his title 523 times?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

523 times? Holy FUCK lol.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yep: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=20&page=5&reign=8


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2 Flair matches on that list . And a DICK MURDOCH match. Which will likely never be seen .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ready to eat your words on the 2008 Rumble Cal ? 

Oh yeah, I find that NO DQ Eddie match against Edge to be extremely overrated, much like 99 percent of everything non-gimmick that Edge does.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which words would those be?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dick The Fucking Man Murdoch vs Bob Backlund? :mark:

Speaking of him, Murdoch randomly reminded me of all the tragedies in wrestling. I know this is complete off-topic, but...




It's impressive and saddening how many wrestlers died at under 50 and up to 2007 alone. I could pick pretty much any two of these guys and have good-to-amazing matches with any combination possible.

RIP to all of them


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> They also have another match in the first Smackdown of 2005. That was a good one too and I think the match where they try to "out-cheat" each other.


*Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Smackdown (1/6/05)*
Kudos for pointing this out. I had never seen it before and it's unsurprisingly good. Nice mix of fun stuff and workrate in this one. Rey does lucha at the start, Eddie takes over off a nice counter and has a brief but good control segment (obviously) where he works on Rey's arm, and the rest of the match is solid back and forth action. Eddie is brilliant interacting with the ref throughout, especially at the end which is a great bit of lie, cheat and steal comedy. Such a well rounded performer. Well worth a watch for anyone who hasn't seen it.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*WWF Raw is War – 01.17.00*
_Test vs. Big Bossman- *1/4
The Godfather and D’Lo Brown vs. Edge and Christian- ¾*
Kurt Angle vs. Steve Blackman- ½*
The Acolytes vs. Triple H and X-Pac- *1/2
Jeff Hardy vs. Bubba-Ray Dudley- **
Chris Jericho vs. Rikishi- DUD 
Kane vs. Prince Albert- DUD
The Rock and Big Show vs. New Age Outlaws- *_​
This wasn't a great show like last week's episode of Raw was but in terms of building up to the Royal Rumble, this show was just fine. The tag team championship match was built up quite well, as was the street fight between Cactus Jack and Triple H, which was topped off by a pretty good opening promo between both men at the start of the show where Triple H basically said that no matter how violent Cactus Jack got at the Rumble, he would be much more evil. Match quality wasn't good at all this week outside of a short Bubba Ray Dudley vs. Jeff Hardy match but hey, we're only one show away from the Royal Rumble and a bunch of quality matches. :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just started to watch the first Raw of 2000, and Kurt Angle's three I's schtick was absolute gold. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I miss that Angle.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Early Kurt Angle, at least character wise, was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2000 Kurt was great as a character, 2001 Kurt was great as a wrestler... then he went up and down depending on who he faced. 03 was mostly a great year though. LESNAR MATCHES.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DEM ANGLE vs LESNAR MATCHES.

Thoughts on Daniel Bryan vs The Miz @ NoC 2010?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK makes everything better imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> DEM ANGLE vs LESNAR MATCHES.
> 
> Thoughts on Daniel Bryan vs The Miz @ NoC 2010?


Greatest Miz match of all time. And yes that's a compliment . Bryan was awesome in it. Around ****. Closest Miz has got to that match is TLC with Lawler at ***1/2.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

**** as well. DAT PSYCHOLOGY. Though to me, Miz's greatest match ever is the Triple Threat TLC


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The only good non gimmick singles match Miz has ever had. I only have the Miz/Bryan match at *** though not ****. I haven't seen it in a while though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I consider the WWE Title matches with Rey (Raw) and Lawler (EC 11) good as well tbh, the latter I have at *** if for Lawler's work and drama only.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Mike's steel cage match with Cena and Morrison was also good. As was their one-on-one rematch the night after.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw peeps were talking about a Savage/Dynamite match - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2qj14_macho-man-randy-savage-vs-dynamite_sport


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Tomorrow I'll start to watch the feud between Punk and Morrison. Was it any good, I can't really remember it? Also was Punk/JBL from 2008 good?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Punk/Morrison
NOC: **1/2
GAB: **
Summer Slam: **1/4

Punk/JBL
Summer Slam:**

Punk really wasn't that good in his early years in WWE. 2010 is when he started to pick up.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well I have seen his match with Morrison from ECW on his DVD, and that one was great


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk admitted on his DVD that his matches with Morrison were pretty poor. But I think his 'Last Chance Match' on ECW where he finally won the title was a lot better.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*WWF Smackdown – 01.20.00*
_X-Pac vs. Test- ¼*
Kurt Angle and British Bulldog vs. Steve Blackman and Al Snow- ¼*
Matt Hardy vs. D-Von Dudley- ½*
Chris Jericho, Chyna, and Hardcore Holly vs. Too Cool and Rikishi- ½*
Big Bossman vs. Prince Albert- DUD
Crash Holly vs. Viscera- ¼*
Edge vs. Gangrel- DUD
The Rock vs. Kane vs. Big Show- *_​
This show was just terrible lol. This was just a filler show, as the real go-home show was the Raw three days before this show. Even then, not one much surpassed one star and it took until the main event for a match to even earn a full star. That final promo with Triple H and presumably Cactus Jack might have been good, but my show cut off right at the beginning of Triple H's promo so I didn't get a chance to watch it. After this we're onto the Royal Rumble and of course, the HHH/Cactus street fight!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Miz/Bryan is awesome. I also really liked Miz/Morrison falls count anywhere and Miz/Lawler TLC as far as Miz matches go.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2000:*
Tazz/Angle: **3/4
Hardys/Dudleys: ***3/4
Jericho/Chyna/Holly: **1/2
NAO/Acolytes: *3/4
HHH/Foley: *****
RR Match: ***3/4

Permission to say it's the GOAT Royal Rumble PPV? "Mindblowing" is the perfect word for HHH/Foley.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Miz deserves a lot of credit as well in the Bryan match, arguably his best performance in a match. I found Bryan to be the better performer due to his strong selling and tremendous build and pacing of his offence to create some genuine nearfalls which had the crowd believing either could win, but Miz really made the control segment and limbork engaging on top of being logical and wrestled a smart match to compliment Bryan's strong babyface work on the other end. I'd happily say Bryan is the better guy and have good reason he called/mapped out the bulk of the match but Miz really wasn't carried by Bryan and produced a pretty remarkable performance given what I thought of his work before the match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Triple H/Cactus Jack Royal Rumble Street Fight was 13 years ago today, January 23, 2000. Great match that I haven't watched in awhile. Going to watch that one tonight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2000 isn't quite the GOAT RR. 01 beats it overall imo. But its currently 2nd on my list and I'vw watched all from 88-08 so far. Hope 09 holds up because its a favourite of mine. Made me love wrestling again after really losing interest during 08.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2001 is a bit overrated imo, as some people believe it's perfect. Ivory/Chyna was fucking awful. Still, no denying everything else is very damn good, with both the Ladder Match and the RR going ****1/2 in my books.

But overall 2000 left me a better impression.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think its overrated at all since Ivory/Chyna is literally the only bad thing on it. Everything else is at least good, most being great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

But I do.









Ivory/Chyna is the only bad thing about it but I swear I'd rather watch a Khali/Hornswoggle match instead. It's that bad IMO.

At least they did better at WM 17.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Some MIZ matches that are actually good would include his match with Bryan @ NOC 2010, his FCA match with Morrison to kick off 2011 was awesome, and I enjoyed his two matches against Jerry Lawler to a lesser degree than the former two matches I mentioned.

The best match MIZ was ever involved in however, would be the TLC triple threat with Del Rio and PUNK, even though the awesomeness of that match has nothing to do with MIZ in the slightest. It's the only MIZ match that I currently have at four stars, even though the best MIZ match where he actually CONTRIBUTES SOMETHING would be the Bryan match.

DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of Daniel Bryan Danielson, what do you think it's his best performance in his WWE career?

I would say ER 2012 vs Sheamus.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Speaking of Daniel Bryan Danielson, what do you think it's his best performance in his WWE career?
> 
> I would say ER 2012 vs Sheamus.


probably mine too tbh, although i havnt watched that much of his wwe career tbh, also vs Punk @ OTL


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The match with Punk at OTL was surely better than the ER match, but that was already to be expected. Both guys deserve huge praise, but not my favourite Bryan performance. In the ER match, Sheamus worked a lot, credit where's due, but Bryan quite helped by making him look like a million bucks there.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Speaking of Miz & Bryan... thoughts on Miz vs Bryan vs Morrison from HIAC 2010?

I loved it when I first saw it, but I haven't seen it in about 2 years, so I might try and fit a rewatch in there sometime.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> Speaking of Daniel Bryan Danielson, what do you think it's his best performance in his WWE career?
> 
> I would say ER 2012 vs Sheamus.


Vs Punk at Over The Limit. Both were great matches though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

vs Punk and vs Sheamus are probably his best two individual efforts, although his effort in the TLC 6-man match against the Shield was fucking brilliant.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Bryan carrying Miz's ass to a very good, arguably _near great_ match at NOC '10 is commendable too. Then there was the _great_ match he had with Ziggler at Bragging Rights 2010. But I agree his matches with Sheamus and Punk were amazing performances as well.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd argue his performance in the Henry Steel Cage match should also be considered. Henry was equally brilliant if not better with how he towed the balance between unstoppable monster and showing signs of vulnerability in Bryan's grappling skills and the injured ankle, but Bryan bumped and sold everything to perfection and demonstrated how good he is as the fired up passionate babyface who got over how the match was the biggest and most important of his career to date. They timed all the Bryan nearfalls superbly and I loved how they played off of their first match when Henry countered the Lebell Lock, with Henry once again countering but Bryan being aware and immediately transitioning onto the injured ankle to thwart Henry.

The Batista match on Raw back in 2010 was also another good showcase for Bryan against a bigger opponent and he managed to work a 5 minute match very well in generating a couple of strong nearfalls and making himself look much better despite the near extended squash it was.

@ Clique: I wouldn't call it a carryjob per se. I firmly believe Bryan was a big reason the match turned out so well, but then again having a great worker in a match doesn't automatically make it a carryjob in the truest extent. Miz made the control segment very interesting and got over the limbwork as a smart bit of unexpected character work and when you consider how dull and lifeless a lot of control segments are in WWE atm, this stands out as one of the better ones in recent years. Bryan obviously sold as Bryan can and got over everything wonderfully, but Miz wasn't along for the ride in the NOC match and did an admidable job of not making the extended limbwork tedious and insufferable.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Bryan is fantastic. He had a good to great match with Miz and Fat Henry. That's enough for me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Henry outperformed Bryan in their matches, and this is coming from a huge Bryan advocate in terms of worker ability. Henry was perfect as the monster who structured the match and got over himself as a threat whilst selling subtley enough to put over Bryan as a credible threat and make himself look human and beatable without sacrificing his aura or presence. Then there's the selling of the ankle in the Cage match which might be as good a bit of selling as saw in 2011. He truly made the injury look like a hinderance and the way they built that with him being more aggressive and less playful and toying with Bryan as well as Bryan using it as a transition spot was wonderful.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> @ Clique: I wouldn't call it a carryjob per se. I firmly believe Bryan was a big reason the match turned out so well, but then again *having a great worker in a match doesn't automatically make it a carryjob in the truest extent.* Miz made the control segment very interesting and got over the limbwork as a smart bit of unexpected character work and when you consider how dull and lifeless a lot of control segments are in WWE atm, this stands out as one of the better ones in recent years. Bryan obviously sold as Bryan can and got over everything wonderfully, but Miz wasn't along for the ride in the NOC match and did an admidable job of not making the extended limbwork tedious and insufferable.


I totally agree with that just looking at the Taker/Batista series as an example. Thing is while Batista has proven he can work good matches without a Taker or HHH, I haven't seen the same from Miz since the Bryan match unless he was facing a Ziggler or a Cena. I think at least 90 percent of the credit for that NOC match being as good as it was was down to Bryan and I liked that you pointed out his selling which made Miz look even more impressive and allowed the control segment to be as engaging as it was during the match. I love the Nigel McGuinness clothesline spot they incorporated in that match. Gee, I wonder why Miz hasn't used that spot since then? :bryan


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Clique said:


> I totally agree with that just looking at the Taker/Batista series as an example. Thing is while Batista has proven he can work good matches without a Taker or HHH, I haven't seen the same from Miz since the Bryan match unless he was facing a Ziggler or a Cena. I think at least 90 percent of the credit for that NOC match being as good as it was was down to Bryan and I liked that you pointed out his selling which made Miz look even more impressive and allowed the control segment to be as engaging as it was during the match. I love the Nigel McGuinness clothesline spot they incorporated in that match. Gee, I wonder why Miz hasn't used that spot since then? :bryan


I'm not denying Bryan probably had a big hand on how to structure the match (the McGuinness clothesline spot being an obvious illustration as you stated) and obviously was a big factor in why Miz had a match of that calibre than he ever would with R Truth. But at the same time, Bryan being better than 99% of any Miz opponent doesn't necessarily mean the match turning out great renders Miz immobile and without bringing anything to the table. Bryan no doubt can sell wonderfully but if Miz was butchering every submission hold and throwing shitty offence then it would have halted the match and limited Bryan's ability, same with Miz being able to make minutes of extended and focused limbwork feel investing and intriguing.

I guess I'd call the match more of 'Bryan being better than any prior Miz opponent and working a match which broke away from the default Miz style, but Miz putting in a very good performance himself to not force Bryan to do all the work'. Like, there was never a point in the match where I thought 'damn Bryan's doing good to make this idiot look better than he is'. Miz controlled the bulk of the match and had the responsibility to work well on his end whilst allowing Bryan to sell great and build smartly to the comeback and finishing stretch. I think Miz had a bit more freedom and confidence in knowing Bryan was a great worker and so he could relax and let Bryan incorporate his talent and make for a smarter and well structured match, but a carryjob really has to be used for when one opponent is so horrible and limited that the other guy really has to do nye on everything to make the match work. That wasn't the case here.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK who are your top 5 WWE workers atm?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Are we talking natural ability or just general consistency? Because obviously Bryan is limited to tag matches with more emphasis on schtick, but he's still naturally one of if not the best on the roster when he's given the freedom to work a match like he can.

On pure ability/talent (no order):

Bryan
Mysterio
Punk
Cena
Sheamus

Henry would be in the top 5 if he wasn't currently out. Show deserves some praise, Mcintyre would have made the cut but he's been rendered useless in the 3MB gimmick and tbf Sheamus has been too consistent to be overlooked. Lesnar is obviously very good when he wants to be, but is part time and can't be considered with the others in terms of consistency.

Babyface Del Rio looks promising, Cesaro is very good but a bit limited atm with some of the guys he's working. Needs to be allowed to be more aggressive and dominant rather than working restholds and submissions that don't really get a chance to go anywhere. People like Kidd are visually impressive workers but lacking in real depth aside from a crowd popping moveset. Ziggler needs work on his all round game before I can put him in a top tier bracket: not much about him currently aside from the bumping and his counter heavy finishing stretches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That was perfect. Was just curious how you ranked the current crop of wrestlers. Agreed on Brock. Wish he was still full-time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Should add, face Christian would be above Sheamus and Cena behind Bryan & Mysterio. Be interesting to see when (if) he returns if he'll be a face again or heel. I get people prefer him as a heel character and promo wise, but christ there's such a difference in talent between the two its remarkable. He's the closest thing to Mysterio as a face and may arguably be the best in the company at working an injury into the match (switching up his offence to reflect the injury limiting his moveset) and building to the bigger spots in a match. As a heel he just isn't as remarkable and honestly the bulk of his 2011 post heel turn was remarkably dull as a worker. Compare that to the Orton SD match and OTL when he was face and having to work as a genuine loveable underdog wrestling a bonafide superstar who no-one thought he could beat, the difference was just staggering.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Switch out Punk with Orton and I'll agree with that top 5 completely. Although I'm not so sure about Mysterio since he's way past his prime at this point and injured every other day.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Mysterio is getting bogged down, but he can still bump, sell, build and time his comeback and really just needs a strong heel and efficient time to work against. Working with Sin Cara and in the tag division has stagnated him somewhat, but he was still putting on good matches with Miz prior to the injury and subsequent return with Cara, so I'm confident if you gave him the likes of Bryan, Cesaro and a returning Henry to work programs with we'd still get a competent and able Mysterio. The good thing about him is that as his body has broken down and his agility slowly retreated his intelligence and all round working ability has shone in comparison, so long as he can still bump and form a solid comeback he won't disappoint.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Given what you said, I would like to see a Mysterio/Cesaro feud.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

For sure. Cesaro was at his best on the indy scene working smaller, faster and more agile guys. He was big and dominant enough to make for a great base and was deceptively agile and athletic enough to take big bumps and work a faster pace when it was needed without blowing up or getting exposed. Shame the likes of Bourne, Kidd and Barretta are either injured or released because they'd be great bases to work alongside Cesaro as opposed to fuckin' Miz.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Drooling at the idea of Rey selling a Swiss Death.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Someone needs to emulate Terry Funk from KOTR 1998 and do a 'shoes coming off bump' of the Swiss death.

Or just emulate Terry Funk in general, whatever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

With or without the Chainsaw Charlie 'I'm about to rob this liquor store' nylon mask?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> With or without the Chainsaw Charlie 'I'm about to rob this liquor store' nylon mask?


Maybe ditch the mask, I'd rather they revisit 1994 Terry Funk where he runs around with a branding iron and throws his shoes at opponents during a War Games match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Drooling at the idea of Rey selling a Swiss Death.


Even better - Evan Bourne. That is if he ever get's back. Really liked the performances he was giving in 2010.

Wonder how Cesaro fairs with Ryback tonight on Main Event...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Maybe ditch the mask, I'd rather they revisit 1994 Terry Funk where he runs around with a branding iron and throws his shoes at opponents during a War Games match.


That works.



Clique said:


> Even better - Evan Bourne. That is if he ever get's back. Really liked the performances he was giving in 2010.
> 
> Wonder how Cesaro fairs with Ryback tonight on Main Event...


Yeah, when the fuck is Bourne even due back?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

^when the only time he's getting high is the elevation in a Shooting Star Press :side: .

Plus he broke his foot months back and apparently it was a really bad injury, something to do with multiple tendons being severly damaged.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, I forgot about the foot injury. I was really enjoying his work, too. A multi-match feud between Bourne and Cesaro would be great. I'm tired of seeing Cesaro get paired with jobbers (Miz/Truth/Khali/etc).


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Bourne's ship has sailed. PAC's going to be a visually impressive midcard horse in the future, I reckon. Not only he's a brethtaking high-flyer, but he's a well rounded wrestler too. His timing for Spiderman shit is awesome.

His new name is moronic, though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Are there any videos of PAC's WWE work on youtube? I believe the last time I searched for him only his indy shit (which was fucking insane) popped up.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Pac just had his first match in NXT. Also, I'm surprised Bourne is still hired.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

PAC would do well to overtake Bourne, merely because of how assured Bourne looked as the maniacal bumping heir to Mysterio with a really underrated ability to build and time his comebacks wonderfully. Annoyed me when people used to call him a spotmonkey merely because of his agile offence, without giving thought to his selling, bumping and general structure of his matches.

I've heard PAC is supposedly a more all rounded wrestler, so that will do him good when he's in WWE and having to work the brunt of his matches from the bottom and building to his agile offence. He certainly looks a lot more built and bigger than the likes of Bourne, Cara & Generico, will have to see just how good a bumper and timer he is. Some of his offence being scaled back will probably also be to his advantage long term and if he's as good as people say as an all round worker it shouldn't hinder him too much.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Who the hell is PAC?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*WWF Royal Rumble – 01.23.00*
_Kurt Angle vs. Tazz- **
The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz- ***1/2
Chris Jericho vs. Hardcore Holly vs. Chyna- ***
The Acolytes vs. New Age Outlaws- *1/2
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack- *****
2000 Royal Rumble Match- ***1/4_​
Finally got around to this show in my WWF 2000 project and it was well worth the wait. The opener between Tazz and Kurt Angle was pretty good for the three or so minutes it got and Tazz, as expected, was over as hell in his WWF debut. The tag team tables match was extremely fun and gives us a taste of what to expect in the coming months when it comes to crazy spot fests involving these teams. The triple threat was much better than I expected it to be, which was a shocker considering it involved both Hardcore Holly and Chyna. The tag team titles match was what it was and at only three minutes they didn't get much time to accomplish anything worth noting. The HHH/Foley street fight was :mark: and lived up to the hype. Both men took a ton of punishment and I'm really looking forward to their Hell in a Cell match at the No Way Out Pay Per View the next month, which is a match that I've never seen before. The 2000 Royal Rumble Match was fine, although off of the top of my head I prefer 2001 Royal Rumble to it. It had some fun moments like Too Cool dancing in the ring and Kaientai and the Mean Street Posse trying their darndest to interfere in the match. Outside of that, the match dragged at times until big names like The Rock entered, although Rikishi had a nice run in the early parts of the match.

Overall, this was a pretty good show. Every match was at least decent outside of the tag team titles match, but it's hard to fault the competitors involved seeing as they barely had three minutes to put on a match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, when the fuck is Bourne even due back?


Heard it is going to be in March or April. Curt Hawkins got slated with the same return date, but came back early. So fingers crossed for Bourne too. Maybe even at the Rumble? I'll mark.

On the subject of him (Bourne) - he's great. Spot monkey is an awful term, even for a guy who it kind of fits under with the likes of talented high flyers such as a Amazing Red. Bourne doesn't deserve that label. If you watch his matches it's easy to see. His selling is prime. WOOLCOCK pimped his timing, which was spot on. He's generally pretty great at it. Easy to get behind and get the crowd invested in a comeback. Being one of the few high flyers on the WWE roster has certainly given him an x factor and something different to work with the majority of the rest employed.

@ Ownage - PAC is the man. He's in NXT right now under the name Adrian Neville. British independent worker who came over to the States at around late 2006 and blew up among the Indie world. A breathtaking high flyer with some legit amazing moves. He's so smooth. He's more than that, imo, as he's got other qualities about his game. More often than not you can see him work a nice slew of matches. Some are high octane, fast paced fun. Others are focused on grounding him and his struggle to unleash his offense on the comeback stretch, or everything in-between. He's got the goods to be something within WWE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE.com just did a top 20 WCW matches ever and these were the results :

20. Sting vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Nitro, April 26, 1999)
19. Dean Malenko vs. Eddie Guerrero (Uncensored 1997)
18. Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (Halloween Havoc 1993)
17. 3 Count vs. Jung Dragons (New Blood Rising 2000)
16. Diamond Dallas Page vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage (Spring Stampede 1997)
15. Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne vs. Nasty Boys (Spring Stampede 1994)
14. Rey Mysterio vs. Dean Malenko (Great American Bash 1996)
13. Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan (Bash at the Beach 1994)
12. Steiner Brothers vs. Sting & Lex Luger (SuperBrawl 1991)
11. Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude (Beach Blast 1992)
10. Brian Pillman vs. Jushin “Thunder” Liger (SuperBrawl II)
9. “Stunning” Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat (Bash at the Beach 1994)
8. Sting’s Squadron vs. Dangerous Alliance (WrestleWar 1992)
7. Ric Flair vs. Big Van Vader (Starrcade 1993)
6. Rey Mysterio vs. Ultimo Dragon (World War 3 1996)
5. Ric Flair vs. Sting (Clash of Champions XXVII).
4. Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (Halloween Havoc 1997)
3. Goldberg vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Halloween Havoc 1998)
2. Ric Flair vs. Sting (Great American Bash 1990)
1. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions VI in 1989)

Thoughts on this ;

- Why not include the other two Flair-Steamboat matches ? This makes absolutely no sense as both of those matches should have been 2 and 3 respectively. Why take two of the three greatest matches in WCW history and NOT INCLUDE THEM.

- WHY is Flair-Sting on this list ? WHY is Flair-Hogan from BATB on this and not their AWESOME cage match ?

- Rick Rude-Steamboat and WAR GAMES 92 are all far too low, WTF WWE.

- Love seeing Goldberg-DDP , Savage-DDP, and Sting-DDP getting some love. DDP is getting a ton of love from the company since signing a legends deal of some sort. Goldberg-DDP could be argued as being ASTRONOMICALLY and SURPRISINGLY high.

- Not enough love for SCOTT STEINER.

- This list is MEH. You can't exclude two of the three greatest matches in company history and expect something great....... WAIT....... WHY WEREN'T ANY FLAIR-FUNK MATCHES ON THIS ? THE FUCK.... FUCK THIS LIST. FUCK YOU WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#5 is wtf level.

oh and where is Finlay vs Regal from Uncensored 1996? Crap.

at least #1 is spot on.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

#2 is NO. NO. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Level.......


Seriously, Flair-Sting @ GAB 90 isn't good in the slightest, and a pretty damn bad match by Flair standards for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the result. Sting FINALLY trumped Flair to become World Heavyweight Champion. I understand the ranking from that standpoint.

Ironic that what seems to be my favorite tag team match ever is on the same event and wasn't even listed. Oh, that WWE and their lists. Did they vote or did fans? Either way, everyone should know it's going to be off.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE.COM makes the GOAT thread look like a bunch of wrestling philosophers. :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't go that far. It's not like WWE is ranking those matches on ratings or how many t-shirts they sold.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol :lol :lol

GOAT Thread's GOAT Matches :

1. Hogan-Andre WM III
2. Rock-Hogan WM X-8
3. Hogan-Sting STRC 97
4. Rock-Austin (any of them)
5. Rock-Cena WM XXVIII

Punk-Bryan sucks. Just two indy midgets who can't draw going out there and WRESTLING. BORING. We need more transvestites because THAT'S what sells. Ryback should squash both of them on the next episode of RAW to get over. Then Rock must squash Ryback, because Rock is the undisputed leader and ruler of the universe


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sounds like a typical Rock mark post.

*shudders*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I need to watch that regal finlay match soon


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do it...RIGHT NOW.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

People rank matches for different reasons. Many of us rank based on workrate and storytelling and dive deep into how well did they sell or make a comeback. Some people rank matches based on the build and how the conclusion to that build ends or continues with the match. Defining matches and star-power are often on these WWE lists/DVD match selections and sometimes they are just random lol!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what makes their lists so fucked though IMO.. You can't really compare a Hogan-Andre to a Savage-Steamboat type encounter in the slightest, but I guran-damn-tee you that if WWE did a "greatest Wrestlemania matches" list that both would be on there. You can't compare defining moments like Flair-Sting to a workrate classic like Flair-Steamboat, it just doesn't work in the slightest. It's all personal preference really, just like rating matches in the first place (hell, I've seen people give Hogan-Andre ***** 1/2* before).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's why I don't look much into a list ranked by WWE or say general wrestling fans. Someone could always say "remember how big Hogan vs Sting from Starrcade 1997 was?" even though it's a main event that isn't worth listing at all. Or comparable next to something completely underrated such as one of the multiman Lucha bouts from an obscure WCW PPV or Raven/Saturn vs Benoit/Malenko from Spring Stampede 1999.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hailsabin said:


> Do it...RIGHT NOW.


I'm at work


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

A lot of wrestling fans rank matches in terms of importance and 'effects on the business' rather than how entertaining they are and how good the performance. I get it, LOL WORKRATE isn't the be all and end all, but fuck sake, people are starting to shun it altogether and treat it like a dirty past time, like they're the PA to Vnce McMahon or something.

AAAANNYWAY, on another topic - I can't believe it took me this long to get into Finlay properly. Watched some of the matches in WCW with Regal and damn they really lay it in, excellent stuff. Just wish I paid more attention at the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> I'm at work




Yeah, all those Regal vs Finlay matches are brilliantly brutal. Don't think they had a single match that wasn't really good, let alone amazing.

Oh and these 2010 Superstars have taken a dive in the Summer months. So much Chavo, MVP, Santino to make things suck. Then having a lackluster team like the Usos show up doesn't help things as they only have their moments. Hopefully things kick back into gear soon. Cut the Divas trash already too. Just give me Masters, Goldust, & Regal matches plz.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That WCW list is pretty crummy, but could have been so much worse. I really don't understand having any Flair/Stings on there while leaving off two of the Flair/Steamboat trio. If you told me a year ago WWE would make a top 25 WCW matches list, I wouldn't have been totally convinced Rude/Steamboat would be on there, so there's at least that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seeing that list has me tempted to make a top 25 worst matches in WCW. We all know how much fun that would be.

8/26/10 Superstars now. Regal vs Goldust, Gatecrashers vs Dudebusters, & McIntyre vs Masters. Oh yes. This is the turnaround I needed.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Just had a want to go back and revisit the Hardy/Edge 05 steel cage match from Unforgiven.

My god what a match, Matt Hardy's honestly one of the most underrated workers WWE had in the past decade. Hardy's babyface performance is everything and then some, there's this amazing moment where Hardy's having his head/neck area destroyed by Edge and Hardy throws these wild punches in Edge's general vicinity and that totally plays up the head injury angle. Hardy's main story here is that he will not let edge survive this match, no matter what. Hardy's going to get his revenge on Edge and Lita and nothing will stop him. 

Edge also plays a great cowardly/sadistic heel. Edge's control segment is a thing of beauty, targeting Hardy's head/neck area and there's this brutal powerbomb into the cage by edge and a turnbuckle powerbomb by edge. Might be Edge's finest performance in a match, Lita plays the desperate heel lover well, doing anything and everything to save Edge. 

The finish is wonderful as well, plays up the Hardy doesn't care about his pain he just wants to see Edge suffer. Absolutely awesome ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's brilliant. :mark:

Both Hardys deserve praise. Not just Jeff or not just Matt. I think they're both pretty great _(yeah, great is what I meant to say)_ at what they deliver with.

Jeff is more one dimensional, but in one way is that a negative. He simply has that charisma to appeal to fans and hot damn do they ever get behind him. He's capable of some great face performances. His work really made a match like vs Triple H from No Mercy 2008 for me. He's been giving quite a bit of strong outings in TNA over the last few months too. He showed us that once he has a compelling heel persona, it does actually up his mic work. b/c normally he's very bad behind the stick. All that charisma and no way to channel it outwardly has always been baffling. However during his heel turn in TNA during 2010, the promos he delivered were good. Like really good actually. I don't know what clicked for him exactly, only that it was something he needed and I was happy to see it. Too bad he got sidetracked with his demons again to ruin the payoff with it, only Jeff did manage to show us another side to his work that we fans didn't think he had in him.

Matt is more well rounded in all aspects. Great seller, pretty on point with his ring work, and has a more general knowledge of what needs to go into a match than I think Jeff does. Matt's mind is probably his biggest aide. He knows what to do most of the time. He had his abysmal career and life path, but pardon that he's really quite good. Back on the right track currently too so that's worth a (Y) in my book. Glad he was able to bounce back. Shouldn't be a surprise. It seems to be a trait for the Hardys no matter what demons get in their path.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I prefer Matt when it comes to in-ring work (plenty of great non-gimmick performances), but I do enjoy Jeff as well.

Speaking of the Hardys, which match do you believe it's better: Triangle Ladder Match or TLC II?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TLC II did have it's share of recycled spots from TLC I, but it still managed to have an x factor for me, as well as other elements to make it standout. So, TLC II wins here.

I like the Triangle Ladder Match, but it doesn't compare to the original TLC matches for me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

@ Mighty Krang. Finlay is super. Matches with Benoit and Regal are his peak in terms of nasty and ungodly violence, but he's got a style that can work well with anyone and he's an underrated babyface whether he's portraying a more stereotypical comedy/sportsmanlike British babyface or a tough as nails babyface trying to overcome a vicious heel. The Callihan matches in 2011 and 2012 were the peak of his indy comeback but he had a number of gems in Britain and America/Europe. There's one match vs Dick Togo that will haunt me with it not turning up.

Agreed with *Yeah1993* vis a vis the WCW list. Rude/Steamboat is far too low but at least its on there. Stuff like Mysterio/Ultimo feels like your typical crowd pleasing match even if it doesn't belong anywhere near that list. War Games 1992 being included is a nice touch, no Regal/Finlay, R n R Express/Midnight Express, Southern Boys/Midnight Express. The 2/22/92 8 man Worldwide tag was never going to be a match that would turn up on an 'official list', same with the 5/24/92 6 man featuring Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff vs Arn/Eaton/Larry Z. 

Here's my top 25 WCW matches from a poll I took part in last year:



Spoiler: The Countdown



1.Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude, US Title, 30 Minute Ironman Match, Beach Blast 6/20/1992
2.Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Clash Of The Champions VI 4/2/1989
3.Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, Landover House Show, 3/18/1989
4.Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko/Austin/Rude, WAR GAMES XXIII, Wrestlewar 5/17/1992
5.Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko, Clash Of The Champions XVII 11/19/1991
6.Lord Steven Regal vs Fit Finlay, Uncensored 3/24/1996
7.Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio, Cruiserweight Championship vs Mask, Halloween Havoc 10/26/1997
8.Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette, Wrestlewar 2/25/1990
9.Southern Boys vs Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette, Great American Bash 7/7/1990
10.Ric Flair vs Hulk Hogan, WCW Heavyweight Championship, Career vs Career, Steel Cage Match, Halloween Havoc 10/24/1994

11.Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Chi Town Rumble 2/20/1989
12.Jake Roberts vs Dustin Rhodes, 9/26/1992
13.Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton, Saturday Night 5/23/1992
14.Sting vs Vader, Leather Strap Match, Superbrawl III 2/12/1993
15.Ric Flair vs Terry Funk, WCW Heavyweight Championship, Great American Bash 7/23/1989
16.Ric Flair vs Vader, WCW Heavyweight Championship vs Career, Starrcade 12/27/1993
17.Lord Steven Regal vs Sting, Great American Bash 6/16/1996
18.Flair/Windham/Sid Vicious/Zbyszko vs Sting/Pillman/The Steiners, WAR GAMES XVIII, Wrestlewar 2/24/1991
19. Arn Anderson vs Dustin Rhodes, 1/4/1992
20.Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs Brian Pillman & Steve Austin, Starrcade 12/28/1992

21.Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko, Superbrawl 2/29/1992
22.Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko vs Ricky Steamboat/Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes, 2/22/1992
23.Sting vs Cactus Jack, Falls Count Anywhere, Beach Blast 6/20/1992
24.Hollywood Blondes vs Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio, World Wide 5/8/1993
25.Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, WCW Heavyweight Championship, Saturday Night 5/14/1994



Said it before when discussing the Hardys, Jeff has the Morton/Steamboat connection and charisma that drives the fans into a frenzy and generates an atmosphere/reaction almost every time, but Matt is definitely closer to Morton/Steamboat in terms of mechanical babyface work and selling/timing/structuring his matches and comebacks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My top 25 WCW Matches:

1.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
2.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993
3.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997
4.	Belfast Bruiser Vs Steven Regal - Uncensored 24/03/1996
5.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993
6.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
7.	War Games - WrestleWar 17/05/1992
8.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 07/05/1989
9.	Vader Vs Ric Flair – Starrcade 27/12/1993
10.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Philadelphia 18/03/1989
11.	Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992
12.	Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994
13.	Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 17/09/1995
14.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 20/02/1989
15.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Landover 18/03/1989
16.	Hulk Hogan Vs Ric Flair - Halloween Havoc 23/10/1995 
17.	Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
18.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Clash of the Champions IX 15/11/1989
19.	Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas - Starrcade 28/12/1992
20.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 14/09/1997
21.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 23/07/1989
22.	Cactus Jack Vs Sting - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
23.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 16/10/1995
24.	Hollywood Blonds Vs 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell - Worldwide 08/05/1993
25.	Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal has pretty much the same list as I do, except I'd have Goldberg/DDP Halloween Havoc and the Flair/Harley Steel Cage there as well.

What are your top 10 Monday Night Wars matches?

Here are mine, in no particular order:
Bret/Austin - WrestleMania 13
Eddie/Rey - Halloween Havoc 1997
Taker/HBK - In Your House: Badd Blood
HHH/Foley - Royal Rumble 2000
Finlay/Regal - Uncensored 1996
Team Austin/Hart Foundation - In Your House: Canadian Stampede
Goldberg/DDP - Halloween Havoc 1998
Rock/HHH - SummerSlam 1998
Bret/HBK - WrestleMania 12
Bret/Austin - Survivor Series 1996


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair/Harley wasn't WCW .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, my bad then, since it had happened at Starrcade


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WCW wasn't WCW until like Dec... 88? I think that was the starting date for the WCW poll anyway. Everything before that was NWA/JCP. Besides Harley/Flair cage sucked . 

Had to look at my full list to see where I ended up placing DDP/Goldberg though, was #32, so still pretty damn high.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bah, NWA/WCW, it's all the same..................:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No it's not .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> No it's not .


But WWE tells us it basically is though, we must follow the propaganda machine


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh well if WWE says it then it MUST be true .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of the NWA, is that History and Tradition doc a good watch, its on my 'to watch' pile atm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, good watch, until the last part when they focus on current NWA which makes a mockery of the original NWA days. Seeing nobodies with the title wrestling in front of like 10 people is just a joke, but I like that they at least allow comments from people on both sides of it; some saying the NWA should stop because it's meaningless now, and some saying it still means something and should continue.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Decided to something of a 2011 project after all. I'll do a top 10/20 when I'm finished but figured I'd post these as I go along since not all of them will make the cut.

*Monday Night Raw
WWE Championship
The Miz(c) vs. John Morrison
Falls Count Anywhere*

_I can count on one hand the number of good to great matches Miz has had in his career. This is one of them. I even have to admit that I marked just a bit for Morrison since I haven’t seen him in any shape or fashion since whenever the hell it was that he left. ALEX RILEY sighting. The match starts with a huge leap off the WWE sign from Morrison on to both of them. Cool spot. Morrison takes a back drop on the steel guard railing too. I can’t recall ever seeing that spot before. Ouch. Miz takes control of the match from here with some hard hitting offence. He starts to grow frustrated as Morrison keeps kicking out. Morrison’s comeback is fast paced and things start to pick up with reversals and kickouts galore. Morrison finally hits Starship Pain, fans think it’s over but Miz kicks out. Cool nearfall. There’s a table randomly set up on the outside and I can’t remember how it got there. Somebody’s going through this thing. Morrison goes for Starship Pain on Miz through the table, Miz moves and Morrison crashes and burns but still manages to kickout. Both guys are getting put over big time in this thing and showing great resiliency. Miz has enough and hits the SCF on the outside to retain his title._ 

****3/4*


*Friday Night Smackdown
Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio
2 Out Of 3 Falls*

_Great little hidden gem if you ask me. About 2 minutes in Del Rio gets the first fall with the cross arm breaker and continues to work on the arm throughout the match. Back and forth, back and forth until Mysterio lucks out and gets a fall for himself through a cradle roll up. It’s now 1 a piece. Del Rio goes back to the arm and even tries to take Mysterio’s mask off which leads to a big diving headbutt off the top rope from Rey to ADR. I really like how back and forth the middle portion of this is with both of them getting offence in but just in the right time to pop the crowd and create excitement. Rey hits a big DDT and goes to the top but gets hung up on the turnbuckle. Del Rio tries for a big suplex up and over to the outside but settles for an arm breaker over the rope instead. Rey is hurting but somehow manages the 619 around the ring post sending Del Rio to the outside. Ricardo tries to help and it’s time for Mysterio to fly, crashing into the both of them. All 3 men are down and the ref starts to count. Rey rolls Del Rio back into the ring at 7 and tries to get in himself but Ricardo holds his leg. The ref doesn’t see it and Del Rio wins the last fall by countout. Post match Ricardo eats a 619 while Del Rio watches from the ramp._

****1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Miz-Morrison made me mark out like a little bitch the last time I watched it. It's weird because I WANT Miz to succeed in terms of being able to consistently put on good matches, but it seems as if he just doesn't have the ability and certainly never will. The reason that match was so good might be attributed to the fact that Miz is known for his notoriously bad heel control segments and sloppy work, and this match featured less heel control and more of the face kicking the absolute shit out of the champion. One of the better "excitement" type matches out there, and I'd throw the **** 3/4* like you would *Starbuck*. When it comes to one on one MIZ matches, the great ones that come to mind would be as follows ;

1. vs Bryan (NOC 2010) : **** 3/4*
2. vs Morrison (RAW 2011) : **** 3/4*

That's really it  ..... MIZ SUCKS.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Haven't watched any matches recently. I'm revisiting HBK/Razor at WMX for nostalgia's sake.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just began the 09 RR match. Big fan of the event overall, some things have held up, some things not so much, and some even more than before. Hoping the Rumble match at least holds up.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Just began the 09 RR match. Big fan of the event overall, some things have held up, some things not so much, and some even more than before. Hoping the Rumble match at least holds up.


That was a solid Rumble, but it was way too clear that Orton was going to win it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah Orton winning was probably THE most obvious Rumble win since Austin in 98.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Looking back at Punk's WWE Title defenses, what are the matches you would have at *** 1/2+?

Punk/Jericho WM28 - **** 1/4
Punk/Henry Raw 4/2 - *** 3/4
Punk/Jericho ER - *** 3/4
Punk/Bryan OTL - **** 1/2
Punk/Bryan MITB - ****
Punk/Cena NOC - ****

I have Punk/Miz/Del Rio TLC 11, WWE Title Elimination Chamber 12, and Punk/Ryback TLC Raw 13 at *** 1/4. Punk/Ziggler Rumble 12, Punk/Henry Raw UK 12, and Punk/Kane/Bryan NWO 12 at ***. Punk/Ryback HIAC 12, Punk/Cena/Show SSlam 12, and Punk/Cena/Ryback SSeries 12 at ** 3/4. Punk/Cena Raw 1000 at * 3/4.

Could it all end this Sunday?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Most Rumbles you can narrow down to like 3 plausible winners anyway. Still love the match, though. 

edit Yeah, that list probably covers them all.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Clique said:


> Looking back at Punk's WWE Title defenses, what are the matches you would have at *** 1/2+?
> 
> Punk/Jericho WM28 - **** 1/4
> Punk/Henry Raw 4/2 - *** 3/4
> ...



Punk/Jericho - WM28 - ****
Punk/Jericho - ER - ****1/2
Punk/Bryan - OTL - ****3/4
Punk/Cena - NOC - ****
Punk/Del Rio/Miz - TLC - ***3/4
Punk/Ryback - TLC ***3/4

Can't remember the Punk/Henry matches too well, so I'm not going to rate them now. Punk/Bryan from MITB gets a ***1/2 at the most from me, Punk/Ziggler from RR, and Elimination Chamber match get ***1/2 in addition. 

Punk's reign in terms of good to great matches has been top notch, and his reign could very likely end this Sunday. I'm probably 80% sure Rock will win the Title at the Rumble, but you never know with the WWE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Could it all end this Sunday?


Hopefully.

For matches above 3 and a half. I've got NOC with Cena, TLC with Ryback (Raw) and maybe Jericho at WM at that number or slightly above. I have not seen some of them in a very long time, though. Examples being TLC triple threat which I remember considering good. Otherwise, everything else has been overrated to the depths of hell.

And hopefully, he'll have a 4 star match with The Rock where his bitch ass finally gives up the title after 400+ tragic days.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

vs Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) : ******
vs Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC) : ******
vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) : **** 1/2*
RAW Elimination Chamber (Elimination Chamber) : **** 1/2*
vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania) : ***** 1/4*
vs Mark Henry (4/2 RAW) : ***** 1/4*
vs Mark Henry (UK RAW) : **** 3/4*
vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) : ******
vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) : ***** 3/4*
vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (No Way Out) : **** 3/4*
vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) : ******
vs John Cena (RAW 1000) : *****
vs John Cena vs Big Show (Summerslam) : *** 3/4*
vs John Cena (Night of Champions) : ***** 1/4*
vs Ryback (Hell in a Cell) : *****
vs Ryback vs John Cena (Survivor Series) : *****
vs Ryback (RAW 13) : **** 3/4*

I believe it all ends this Sunday, but that's not to say that Punk will never hold the WWE Championship again. He's firmly entrenched himself as one of the two big full time players in the WWE, and the perfect compliment to John Cena that they've been looking for since BIG DAVE went spiraling in and out of injury POST Undertaker feud. I'd love to see Punk carry this momentum and use this reign to create a new star or a big time MANIA match like a rematch with Rock or Cena or Taker, but I don't see that happening.

One thing I'm almost certain of though ; Punk will be involved in the WWE championship picture come Wrestlemania... I don't know HOW he will, but he will. His character is almost like Triple H from 03-06 (except with more talent than Hunter had at that point, sorry GAME) in the sense that it revolves around him having the belt to validate his opinion that he's the best in the world. It would make absolutely no sense to NOT have Punk involved in the title picture after his character says otherwise. Do people really expect PUNK (who has a character that REVOLVES around that title) to drop the title, and say "LOL No rematch" and then somehow enter a feud with Taker?

Besides, literally everything Taker has done since 2/22/11 has involved Triple H in some way shape or form. So when Triple H says at the Slammys that Taker is gonna be back, than Trips is going to be involved somehow. I can't see Trips wrestling without DAT long hair and besides... Who was Trips feuding with last ? Punk-Rock-Cena and Taker-Lesnar W/ The Game as Referee is my last prediction for Wrestlemania XXIX and I'm sticking to it. Makes more logical sense than anything I've ever seen in my life. TOO MUCH sense actually.

With all that being said, one of these days I'll probably do a write up about Punk's reign ; a reign that I feel has been the best WWE title reign since Austin in 2001 by a pretty wide margin, and easily the second or third best title reign in the modern era.

In Punk We Trust.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk title defenses at above ***1/2?

Punk/Bryan OTL - ****3/4
Punk/Jericho ER - ****3/4
Punk/Cena NOC - ****1/2
Punk/Bryan MITB - ****1/2
Punk/Jericho WM - ****1/2
Raw Elimination Chamber - ****1/4
Punk/Bryan/Kane NWO - ****1/4
Punk/ADR/Miz TLC - ***3/4

Definitely one of the best in-ring title reigns of the decade, if not in history. Or at least the best since Austin in 2001 - Austin 01 may be THE best in-ring reign of all time IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

vs Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) : ***
vs Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC) : ** (ish, I forget my exact rating for this though I did post it recently lol)
vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) : ***1/4
RAW Elimination Chamber (Elimination Chamber) : fuck knows, didn't like it though
vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania) : ****1/2
vs Mark Henry (4/2 RAW) : ****
vs Mark Henry (UK RAW) : ***1/2
vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) : ***1/2
vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) : ****3/4
vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (No Way Out) : ***1/2
vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) : ***1/2
vs John Cena (RAW 1000) : **1/2
vs John Cena vs Big Show (Summerslam) : **1/2
vs John Cena (Night of Champions) : ****1/4
vs Ryback (Hell in a Cell) : **1/2
vs Ryback vs John Cena (Survivor Series) : I don't think I even watched this tbh.
vs Ryback (RAW 13) : ***1/2

I don't doubt Punk's ability, but I'm not sure if Rock has a **** match in him. For starters I doubt he can go 15 minutes without being blown up, forcing Punk to resort to rest holds so he can catch his breath again lol. We'll see on Sunday though. I'm ordering the PPV tonight and I will be watching live, and I am somewhat looking forward to the match just because I HAVE A FEELING that Punk is leaving with the belt.

Almost done watching the 09 RR. Another 10 minutes left. Will post right after.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RR 2009 is decent. Edge/Jeff and RR were ***3/4 material.

Like I said, SCSA's in-ring WWF Title reign in 2001 may be the best one in the company's history:

vs The Rock (WM 17): *****
vs The Rock (Steel Cage on Raw): ***1/2
w/Triple H vs The Brothers of Destruction (Backlash 2001): ****
w/Triple H vs The Undertaker (Insurrextion 2001): Don't remember but iirc ***
vs The Undertaker (Judgment Day 2001): ****1/4
vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown in Edmonton): ****3/4
vs Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (King Of The Ring 2001): ****
vs Kurt Angle (SummerSlam 2001): ****3/4
vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2001): ****1/2

Not to mention all the other ****+ matches Austin had that year, such as the 30-Man RR, the 3 Stages of Hell with HHH at No Way Out, the Triple Threat against Angle and RVD, the Team WWF/Alliance matches (SS and Invasion), and plenty of other great material as well. We can only wonder how better he would've been had the neck injury not had happened (which is scary to be honest...).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Posted the 09 review .

Austin's run was great in 01 no doubt, but I don't think much to the NWO HHH match, triple threat with Benoit & Jericho and the triple threat with Angle & RVD.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

May as well throw in some snowflakes too:

vs Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) : ***1/4
vs Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC) : ***1/2
vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) : ***
RAW Elimination Chamber (Elimination Chamber) : **
vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania) : ***3/4
vs Mark Henry (4/2 RAW) : do not remember this
vs Mark Henry (UK RAW) : or this, will catch up with these soon.
vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) : ***1/4
vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) : *****
vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (No Way Out) : ****
vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) : **3/4
vs John Cena (RAW 1000) : *
vs John Cena vs Big Show (Summerslam) : **
vs John Cena (Night of Champions) : ****
vs Ryback (Hell in a Cell) : *3/4
vs Ryback vs John Cena (Survivor Series) : **1/2
vs Ryback (RAW 13) : ***

Great reign even before i catch up on the MONSTER HENRY matches


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Taker attacking midgets, I lol'd @ that segment before SummerSlam 04 where JBL brought out a midget Taker imposter. Then when the lights go out, the camera angle is positioned wrong and you can clearly see Taker slide in the ring behind JBL's back. To end it, Taker tombstones the imposter and he's taken away on a stretcher. :lol

Also watching Bret vs Austin from Survivor Series 96 and almost finished with it. That's one great thing about the WWE channel that they have everything in super high quality. If only their channel was more complete.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I do enjoy 2009 RR, but not nearly as much as you Cal. I for one find the 2010 RR Match to blow it out of the water 

Austin/HHH NWO 01 is a 5-star classic to me, really. One of the best matches in both men's career, and that says a huge lot. To be honest, some of the B-show events have a lot more great matches than you can count. TLC alone, for example, has a very good resumé that consists of matches like Rybell No/Shield, Cena/Ziggler, Punk/ADR/Miz and Morrison/Sheamus.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk's run with the belt (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not a fan of the 2010 RR on last watch. Don't think it comes close in ANY WAY to the 09 one lol. Not as fun, not "technically" as good, entrants aren't as entertaining etc. Only thing I remember being good was Punk on the mic. Until HHH buried him .

Watching the 2010 RR event now. No rest for me. Wanna get all of them watched by tomorrow.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What did HHH do to Punk at that event? Mind = blank.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Basically he just eliminated him, even though Punk getting on the mic in between throwing people out was easily the most entertaining thing to happen in a Rumble match ever. HHH single handedly killed the match. THAT BASTARD.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I remember that now :lmao

THE GAME


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I have high expectations for Punk/Rock. Maybe higher than I should but I think they're capable of something special.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If you don't enjoy the RR Match, you might enjoy Taker/Rey though. A pretty good clash of styles match, about ***1/2 I'd say.

What are your thoughts on WrestleMania 24? IMO, one of the GOAT WM's ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh I love Undertaker/Rey. Hoping it holds up.

WM 24 is awesome, definitely one of the best. Probably second for me behind WM 19.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I have high expectations for Punk/Rock. Maybe higher than I should but I think they're capable of something special.


This is how I feel, too. Although I do have a weird feeling that the finish won't be clean.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think it'll be more of a basic and simple match, mostly revolving around Rock being in a title match for the first time in 10 years and a slow burn story of Punk being outwrestled and outmatched in the beginning, leading to the control segment in the middle and then what should be a hot and intriguing finishing stretch with Rock either winning the title or the Shield stipulation setting up for a surprise interference to give Punk the win.

I'll be surprised if it turns out to be great but it should be entertaining and intriguing based on the two dynamics in the match. Hopefully Punk can ham it up as the cowardly and cunning heel trying to find a way to beat his greatest challenger to date and escape somehow with the belt.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm scared that we'll see a shity ending to Rock/Punk.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> I have high expectations for Punk/Rock. Maybe higher than I should but I think they're capable of something special.



Nice avy and hopefully they do. (not watching though)


Expect a shitstorm the following Monday when either Rock is victorious and the Punk marks cry foul at the reign ending to a part-timer or when Punk retains and the Rock marks say the company's killed themselves by not letting Rock win.

edit: Damn my slow typing skills!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Kinda wish they had played up the idea that Rock is Punk's greatest challenger to date and that Rock is a larger than life opponent that has a great chance of jeopardizing Punk's title reign.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think the Rock name pretty much does that job for them TLK. He's had the best of Punk so far in terms of exchanges with the Rock Bottom and Smackdown segment between both tomorrow. They could have done more to sell the threat of Rock and how Punk can't escape, similar to Rock/Angle in the build up to NWO 2001, "Tick Tock, Tick Tock".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I suppose the name does most of the build itself, but for some reason I don't feel Punk's title reign is any more threatened than it was whenever he faced Cena.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I think it'll be more of a basic and simple match, mostly revolving around Rock being in a title match for the first time in 10 years and a slow burn story of Punk being outwrestled and outmatched in the beginning, leading to the control segment in the middle and then what should be a hot and intriguing finishing stretch with Rock either winning the title or the Shield stipulation setting up for a surprise interference to give Punk the win.
> 
> I'll be surprised if it turns out to be great but it should be entertaining and intriguing based on the two dynamics in the match. Hopefully Punk can ham it up as the cowardly and cunning heel trying to find a way to beat his greatest challenger to date and escape somehow with the belt.


All of that sounds about right to me. Punk needs to have a great performance. The atmosphere should enhance everything they do, hopefully.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Where is the event? Phoenix? Not sure if that is typically a hot crowd or not. Hoping they're on fire that night to really add to the match. Wonder what the split will be between Rock/Punk fans.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah if Punk can channel his work in Boston against Cena, albeit playing more of a Ric Flair at the beginning in terms of bumping big for Rock's opening offence then I have hopes the match can be good with a nice sense of structure, build and pacing. Crowd should be hot for all the nearfalls so hopefully they pace and time them well enough to make sense and come off as believable.

My only concern is Rock and his stamina. He's obviously far bigger than he ever was in the WWE physique wise and I just have doubts he'll be able to work it into the match with Punk. On paper you'd think Rock is charismatic enough to come off as another entity entirely and Punk's definitely good enough to play cunning, methodical and hopelessly outmatched heel remarkably well, but I just have a sense of doubt it can reach anything beyond good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh, Phoenix worked well at WM 26, and the last time WWE had a PPV there (MITB last year), they were going apeshit on the SD MITB and Punk/Bryan matches. Expect a great atmosphere for Punk/Rock.

I'm on with you when it comes to WM 24, Cal - with exception of Batista/Umaga (which was still watchable for what it was) every match had a perfect execution to it, the atmosphere and the crowd were superb, the stage setup was pretty second to none... I just love this show. Edge/Taker = one of the best WM ME's ever.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah if Punk can channel his work in Boston against Cena, albeit playing more of a Ric Flair at the beginning in terms of bumping big for Rock's opening offence then I have hopes the match can be good with a nice sense of structure, build and pacing. Crowd should be hot for all the nearfalls so hopefully they pace and time them well enough to make sense and come off as believable.
> 
> My only concern is Rock and his stamina. He's obviously far bigger than he ever was in the WWE physique wise and I just have doubts he'll be able to work it into the match with Punk. On paper you'd think Rock is charismatic enough to come off as another entity entirely and Punk's definitely good enough to play cunning, methodical and hopelessly outmatched heel remarkably well, but I just have a sense of doubt it can reach anything beyond good.


We'll see. I'm almost certain they'll go 20+ minutes like Cena/Rock did, which I thought was unnecessary for that match (and a detriment to it) but it should work better here with Punk's character and ability. A slow middle section of the match giving Rock time to catch his breath shouldn't detract too much if the crowd is electric and Punk plays off them well.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I see your point there. Punk's generally one of the better control segment workers the company has atm and I can totally see him being a great stooging prick at the beginning and then a gloriously smug and cocky bastard in the middle. I really do get the sense Punk is winning via interference, if only because of The Shield stipulation. The fact Vince mentioned them and them alone as the people who'd force a DQ just screams unseen interference, at least by standard wrestling logic anyhow.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BORK LASER TO COST ROCK THE TITLE


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> BORK LASER TO COST ROCK THE TITLE


This would be awesome, although I'm still holding out to hear Brock's music as a surprise Rumble entrant.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> BORK LASER TO COST ROCK THE TITLE


I want this to happen because I want Rock/Brock at Mania. Make it happen Vince!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I see your point there. Punk's generally one of the better control segment workers the company has atm and I can totally see him being a great stooging prick at the beginning and then a gloriously smug and cocky bastard in the middle. I really do get the sense Punk is winning via interference, if only because of The Shield stipulation. The fact Vince mentioned them and them alone as the people who'd force a DQ just screams unseen interference, at least by standard wrestling logic anyhow.


That's exactly what I'm hoping for.

Punk winning via BROCK interference :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Punk winning via BROCK interference :mark:


This! Please!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> BORK LASER TO COST ROCK THE TITLE


Please, please, please, please, please, please, please.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> BORK LASER TO COST ROCK THE TITLE












Speaking of BORK, would be awesome if he feuds with Orton at Wrestlemania with Rock vs Cena II and Taker vs *sigh* Punk being the other matches. Recent dirt-sheet came out about it and I'm really excited and hope it's true.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh man if Punk does win I could see him surpassing his shit eating grin at the end of the NOC match with Cena :mark: .

Also, I know it will never happen but we can all agree that a scenario where the 29th man is eliminated moments before #30 comes out, thus meaning he would only have to enter the ring to win would rule the universe right?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

My only problem with Brock costing Rock and setting up a match at Mania is that Punk/Cena would be the likely title match. As good as they are together I don't really want to see that match again so soon.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> My only problem with Brock costing Rock and setting up a match at Mania is that Punk/Cena would be the likely title match. As good as they are together I don't really want to see that match again so soon.


Unless Punk/Taker happens... 

Idk what Cena would do, though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Unless Punk/Taker happens...
> 
> Idk what Cena would do, though.


I'd be pretty darn happy if it was Punk/Taker and Rock/Brock. Cena can have Ryback? Not for the title though. Keep it on Punk.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't get all this Taker/Punk for the title talk. So is Punk going to end the streak? I can't see Taker winning the title only to vacate it immediately.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah Punk/Taker would be streak vs streak.

That would, of course, require Taker to carry the title which may be a problem considering he is apparently only capable of working 1 match a year at this point. Doubt Punk ends the Mania streak.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't get all this Taker/Punk for the title talk. So is Punk going to end the streak? I can't see Taker winning the title only to vacate it immediately.


If Punk/Taker did happen I'm sure they could figure something out. Maybe 'Taker wins title, retires/vacates it which leads to some sort of tournament? Just a thought.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rock/Brock, Taker/Cena, and Punk/Ryback is what they could do. I know the last match doesn't sound too appealing for some but WWE could cash in on Ryback's overness by having him win the Rumble match and finally defeating Punk at the big show. We get two astronomically huge mega matches at the top and a new main event star winning the WWE Title and end Punk's over 500 day reign at that point.

We're most likely getting Rock/Cena II and Punk/Taker, though. I like the latter but could do without Rock/Cena again.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Oh man if Punk does win I could see him surpassing his shit eating grin at the end of the NOC match with Cena :mark: .
> 
> Also, I know it will never happen but we can all agree that a scenario where the 29th man is eliminated moments before #30 comes out, thus meaning he would only have to enter the ring to win would rule the universe right?


Would have to be a double elimination or some shit otherwise there would still be one guy in the ring. :genius



The Lady Killer said:


> Unless Punk/Taker happens...
> 
> Idk what Cena would do, though.


Cena's winning the Rumble.



Choke2Death said:


> I don't get all this Taker/Punk for the title talk. So is Punk going to end the streak? I can't see Taker winning the title only to vacate it immediately.


Exactly. Doesn't make sense.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Doing a little bit of research right now, I looked at every single WWE Championship reign of the modern era that lasted atleast 150 days and I've come to a conclusion ; Punk's reign can be argued as being the best of the modern era (84-now) for sure. I'd throw out all the numbers and what I did to get them (CAL SCALE like method, except I divided to negate the fact that Punk has held the belt for so long) , but nobody wants to know about that so I'll basically just say this ; when it comes to strictly his PPV defenses during his reign (not even counting his Henry defenses), he clocks in at about an average of **** 3/4* per match. That's fucking astounding. The fact that he's done it for over 400 FUCKING DAYS has to mean something too.

HOWEVER.... One could also argue Shawn Michaels' run in 1996 as being the greatest reign of all time as well, with notable title defenses against Diesel, Vader, Mankind, and SID, the showstopper also averages about **** 3/4* a defense, actually a few decimal spots higher than Punk. The only reason I'd put Punk ahead is that he's had superior TV defenses than HBK while at the same time holding the belt almost twice as long. If I had the ironman match ranked higher, he'd undoubtedly be averaging four stars a PPV match, hich is crazy even though he only has 7 PPV title defenses to Punk's 8.

John Cena's 2006-2007 reign can be debated as being one of the best WWE Championship reigns in history as well, although his matches don't add up as well as the former two champions I just mentioned. He came in at a little below **** 1/2* per title defense, a pretty damn awesome number but below HBK and Punk obviously. It should be noted that during this period Cena wrestled a ton of great matches that weren't title matches (NWO TAG, RAW TAG, RAW vs HBK), but I'm only factoring in title defenses here (which is why I never included any of the other Punk-Bryan matches in my rankings). The number would probably be alot higher if it wasn't for that shit-tastic match that he had with Orton at Unforgiven, DAMN was that bad.

Then you have Austin in 2001. HOLY FUCKING SHIT AUSTIN'S REIGN IN 2001. I don't even need to explain this, six PPV title defenses and FIVE of them were *****+*. He cranks out the highest number, averaging four stars per title match (and that's not even including the Benoit defenses, holy shit). The only match in his reign I didn't fucking LOVE was the Canadian triple threat at KOTR which was actually pretty shitty for all three guys believe it or not... I feel it gets higher ratings then it should due to who's in the match but that's my opinion. In terms of the straight up best title reign when it comes to averages, Austin is KING.

To take it back even further, we go back to Bret Hart's reign starting at Wrestlemania X and ending at Survivor Series 94. Since we don't have the same PPV format we have today back then, we have to look at ALL of Bret's title defenses that were televised (believe or not there were only seven) ;

vs Yokozuna (Wrestlemania) : *** 1/2*
vs Diesel (King of the Ring) : ***** 1/4*
vs BOB BACKLUND (Superstars) : ******
vs Owen Hart (Summerslam) : **** 3/4*
vs Owen Hart (Action Zone) : ******
vs The 1-2-3 Kid (RAW) : ***** 1/2*
vs BOB BACKLUND (Survivor Series) : ***** 1/4*

AGAIN, damn near four stars on this one, and would have a higher rating than Austin's if it hadn't have been for that damn YOKOZUNA match. Would have been interesting to see how a guy like Bret would have performed with the belt in a modern PPV type deal, with defenses on PPV every single month, no doubt in my mind that the man would have set the world on fire with his workrate for sure.

So in the end, if I'm going strictly by averages, here are your top 5 WWE Championship Reigns of all time (ones that qualify anyways, reigns like Triple H's in 2000 were pretty short and featured only a handful of defenses, no doubt if Hunter kept the belt longer he'd be here, same with guys like Undertaker) :

1. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Wrestlemania X-7 - Unforgiven 2001)
2. Bret Hart (Wrestlemania X - Survivor Series 1994)
3. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XII - Survivor Series 1996)
4. CM Punk (Survivor Series 2011 - Present)

5. John Cena (Unforgiven 2006 - No Mercy 2007)

I put John Cena away from the top four because he didn't average out nearly as well as the other four, but he definitely deserves a mention. If I took the numbers away and included longevity, TV defenses, etc into the equation, here would be how I would rank the top five ;

1. CM Punk (Survivor Series 2011 - Present)
2. Steve Austin (Wrestlemania X-7 - Unforgiven 2001)
3. Bret Hart (Wrestlemania X - Survivor Series 1994)
4. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XII - Survivor Series 1996)
5. John Cena (Unforgiven 2006 - No Mercy 2007)

Personally I think you can make a case for any of these guys for sure, and the only knock on Austin is that he didn't have NEARLY enough defenses and longevity, but as of right now I think it's a draw between CM Punk and Steve Austin for the greatest WWE championship reign of all time. If Punk hangs onto that belt at the Rumble and manages to get a four star match out of Rock in the process, he has the potential to wrestle a few more matches to break this draw and solidify himself as having the greatest WWE Championship reign in history.

Thoughts on what (in your mind, obviously) is the greatest WWE Championship reign in history ?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Clique said:


> We're most likely getting Rock/Cena II and Punk/Taker, though. I like the latter but could do without Rock/Cena again.


Where does that leave Lesnar? If he's not facing Rock, Punk or Taker the only realistic options are Orton or Triple H.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ugh at the thought of Brock/Triple H again. I liked their SummerSlam match but I was done with that program when Trips tapped out. I would rather see Brock/Cena II than that rematch.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> 1. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Wrestlemania X-7 - Unforgiven 2001)
> 2. Bret Hart (Wrestlemania X - Survivor Series 1994)
> 3. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XII - Survivor Series 1996)
> 4. CM Punk (Survivor Series 2011 - Present)
> ...


Great post! Really interesting, I've got to say I absolutely love Austin's 2001 reign so that would probably be #1 for me. As you said, so many great matches! I actually think your top 5 is pretty spot on. Are there any reigns just below 150 days that you think would have been up there had they surpassed 150?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^agreed. Don't really want to see Brock/Hunter II either.

*KingOfKings*, I'd imagine HHH's '08 run would rank high for you. The Kozlov match probably pulls it down a lot, otherwise it was great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H isn't going to Wrestle at Wrestlemania with DAT HAIR unfortunately. It's stupid for anybody to think that Brock would sign without knowing who his Mania opponent was going to be as well. "Okay Brock so here's what we're gonna do... You're gonna job to Cena, than beat Triple H, and then Triple H is going over you at Wrestlemania" .... Brock's not a moron and he wants to make as much money as possible, meaning he wants the main event.

Punk's character REVOLVES around the WWE Championship, can't see him out of the picture. Taker's gonna work because they basically came out and told us that at the Slammys. Rock obviously knew who his Mania opponent was going to be a year in advance as well, just like BROCK. Rock has hinted numerous times that him and his opponent this year are going to break records, surely he doesn't think it's gonna be Cena again ?

Sticking to my prediction of Rock-Punk-Cena with Rock coming in with the belt, Cena winning the Rumble, and Punk winning a chamber match or something, with Taker being dragged into this whole Triple H-Lesnar feud for closure.

EDIT : TBH , I'm not a fan of Triple H's reign in 2008 from a work standpoint. As a MARK I fucking loved it because it's Triple H beating everybody, put he only wrestled one near CLASSIC during that reign and that was his match with Jeff @ No Mercy. He had some other great matches too like the Cyber Sunday match against Jeff and the cage against Orton was okay, but that triple threat is HORRENDOUS, and the Khali-Orton-Scramble-Backlash matches are all okay-good. Doing the math it's more or less *** 3/4* stars per match, which is pretty mediocre for a main event title reign as far as I'm concerned. ACCEPTABLE, but mediocre. I think an average of three stars is where a reign starts to be.. well... good (for lack of a better term).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

May God have mercy on our souls if the WM 29 card is Rock/Cena II, HHH/Lesnar II and Punk/Taker III. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Rock/Cena I, and I'm one of the very, very few people "activists" for HHH/Lesnar, but I do not want a rematch between either of those pairings at all, especially at WrestleMania. I mean, c'mon, this year the card could have so much potential out here - with Rock, Lesnar, Taker, Punk, Cena, HHH, Ryback, Sheamus, Orton, Kane, Bryan, Ziggler, ADR, The Shield, maybe even Jericho working the card, it could all be espectacular. It all depends on what goes down at this Sunday's RR event. Looking too forward for Punk/Rock.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I see Punk/Cena for the title at Extreme Rules really is the only option they can take if Rock/Cena and Punk/Taker are happening.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've REALLY fucking warmed up on Rock/Cena I TBH. At first I thought it was horrendous, with Rock sucking wind after the first few minutes it seemed. However, it took a while for me to appreciate what they were doing out there and what kind of a match they were trying to put on. The finish stretch is really, really good and rivals some of the best main event finishing stretches I've ever seen with Rock channeling his inner Rocky Maivia with the crossbody only for Cena to give him the AA. The character work was okay too, with Cena being overconfident with that shit eating grin on his face attempting the people's elbow, only for Rock to catch him with the Rock Botto for the win.

The opening stretch was good too, but FUCK THAT MIDDLE PORTION. It slowed down tremendously and I didn't care for it at all. Still, at the moment I fluctuate between **** 1/4* and **** 1/2* , which is pretty good considering that two of the last three Mania main events before it were ORTON-HHH and MIZ-CENA. Hope to get a nice *****+* classic for this year's Mania main event though. 

Triple H vs Brock Lesnar is AWESOME. Don't let anybody tell you differently. 3rde best match of 2012 as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You may think I'm mad, but I actually have HHH/Lesnar at ****1/4. AMAZING storytelling in my books.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for HHH/Lesnar too


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> You may think I'm mad, but I actually have HHH/Lesnar at ****1/4. AMAZING storytelling in my books.


Exactly! The storytelling sells that match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have it at ***** 1/2* 

Cena can't come out of Mania as champion for one simple fact ; WHO THE HELL IS HE GOING TO FEUD WITH. Here is a list of all the top heels in the company at the moment :

CM Punk
The Big Show
Dolph Ziggler

Seriously, they have NO CREDIBLE HEELS at the moment. The only thing I'd love to see would be a returning Mark Henry feuding with Cena for the belt. NOW THAT WOULD BE SEX.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

If/when Cena wins the WWE Title again after Mania I would like to see him feud with a returning Mark Henry like KOK pointed out, push Bryan again as a main event guy, eventually Punk again since they didn't finish their business at HIAC, maybe a Cena/Ryback or Cena/Sheamus face v face program. Cena/Cesaro could be good too. They are obviously going to have to push so fresh faces in the main event. 

I actually wouldn't mind if Cena/Punk faced each other again at whatever PPV is in Chicago in June.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Definetly a Marmite match that Lesnar/HHH, I need to watch it again, which I may do tonight, think I had it at **** the first time I saw it. Like people have said, the storytelling is pretty superb, some great little spots, but id mark for Brock in anything tbh.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Want: Punk in THE main event
Don't want: Cena/Rock II & Lesnar/HHH II

The build for Cena/Rock was bad at times and the match wasn't that good.
Didn't like the build for Lesnar/HHH nor the match, most disappointing main event for me since Orton/HHH at WM.
I watched Rock/Lesnar for the first time since originally seeing it and i didn't like the match, but between that and Cena/Rock II i'll take it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well we all know that if ROCK or BROCK aren't involved, that Punk will main event that June Chicago PPV no doubt, against probably whoever is the WWE Champion at the time (assuming that he isn't, I have no doubts about him getting the title back during some point in 2013). I just hope that they don't have to give Cena his win back at that PPV TBH. Money in the Bank was a special moment and I don't see it being replicated anytime soon.

Bryan I can see becoming a full blown face very shortly (if he already isn't by now, I'd certainly classify him as one at this point), so SOMEBODY needs to turn heel... Like... NOW. Punk needs to stay in the main event for a while, WHO THE HELL IS HE GOING TO FACE OTHERWISE ? .... I could see Punk/Orton, Punk/Sheamus, Punk/Bryan (W/ roles reversed OBV), and Punk/Del Rio (ditto) as title feuds in 2013. It just seems like they'd have a lot more main event material for Punk as champion than anybody else at this point.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I think I remember giving HHH/Lesnar **** at the time. I enjoyed it, but I remember so many people shitting on the match at the time. Glad there's others who liked it.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Thats cause they are turning Cena heel at WM so he has all these faces to feud with.








lol


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Well we all know that if ROCK or BROCK aren't involves, that Punk will main event that June Chicago PPV no doubt, against probably whoever is the WWE Champion at the time (assuming that he isn't, I have no doubts about him getting the title back during some point in 2013). I just hope that they don't have to give Cena his win back at that PPV TBH. Money in the Bank was a special moment and I don't see it being replicated anytime soon.


I don't think they can replicate what they did in 2011 at Money in the Bank because that storyline was like lighting in a bottle for that particular moment in time. The Chicago atmosphere for another Cena/Punk match would still be awesome.

It probably would mean Cena gets over on Punk in Chicago just like he will get his win back on Rock at Mania. :cena2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just no - as long as there isn't a full fledged face big draw to hold their back for the next generation (i.e. Ryback), Cena is never going to turn heel.

Glad to know peeps that liked HHH/Lesnar. Everybody shitted so hard on that match, I was already in the idea that match was already one of the more underrated ever and not even half a year is done from since.



KingOfKings said:


> Well we all know that if ROCK or BROCK aren't involved, that Punk will main event that June Chicago PPV no doubt, against probably whoever is the WWE Champion at the time (assuming that he isn't, I have no doubts about him getting the title back during some point in 2013). I just hope that they don't have to give Cena his win back at that PPV TBH. Money in the Bank was a special moment and I don't see it being replicated anytime soon.
> 
> Bryan I can see becoming a full blown face very shortly (if he already isn't by now, I'd certainly classify him as one at this point), so SOMEBODY needs to turn heel... Like... NOW. Punk needs to stay in the main event for a while, WHO THE HELL IS HE GOING TO FACE OTHERWISE ? .... I could see Punk/Orton, Punk/Sheamus, Punk/Bryan (W/ roles reversed OBV), and Punk/Del Rio (ditto) as title feuds in 2013. It just seems like they'd have a lot more main event material for Punk as champion than anybody else at this point.


Orton is definitely going to turn heel this year, and I would make a bet on Kofi turning as well.

Speaking of D-Bry, what the hell is he gonna do at WM this year? My guess right now is perhaps the more sense making one at this point: him vs Kane with Dr. Shelby as special referee :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk-Cena from MITB 2011 is the wrestling equivalent of Batman-Superman from The Dark Knight Returns. Seriously, I had a prolonged discussion with my friend about this the other day, and the comparisons are endless. 

I might even have it as the best WWE match of this century so far. It's THAT fucking deep/AWESOME.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> I might even have it as the best WWE match of this century so far. It's THAT fucking deep/AWESOME.


After the Taker/Michaels matches, I'd say it's arguably up there.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Poor D-Bry if that's the scenario for him at this years WM, after last years mess.

Triple H/Lesnar is on WWE Classics right now. I still have it where I had it the first time, I saw it. ***1/2 on the low end, **** at the high end. 

Cena is getting the title one way or another this year, and soon. He's getting his win back vs Rock and absolutely vs Punk. Part of me can't wait to see the reactions on here. Oh, Punk/Cena MITB ****1/2. I hope they don't try to top it in Chicago this year. I don't think they will.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The end all, be all in the WWE has been consistent for years. Every big angle, big match, or big moment must eventually lead to :cena2

:vince


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why poor D-Bry? It's the most sense-making scenario right now. Team Hell No is bound to break up at some point (possibly this Sunday after Rhodes Scholars beat them), and the blow-off of an angle that had the world in the palm of its hands at a certain point usually has to happen at WM. Not to mention, Bryan/Kane matches are usually pretty good, and what better way to put D-Bry over than have him beat a former-WWE Champion/WHC Champion in Kane at the Biggest Stage of 'Em All? And with Dr. Shelby there as guest ref, it does have its potential 

Although there's an argument that could be made for Bryan's match at WM to be fueled by him winning the Royal Rumble match (though I'd mark the fuck out if it both Bryan and Kane were to co-win the RR, like Luger and Bret in 94 :mark: ).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The end all, be all in the WWE has been consistent for years. Every big angle, big match, or big moment must eventually lead to :cena2
> 
> :vince


Yep, pretty much.

I also agree that Rock/Cena was actually alittle bit better than I originally thought. I watched it about a week ago and was sort of surprised how much better it was on a 3rd watching of it. Don't get me wrong, it's not great, but it was better than I thought it was on 1st watch. Then again, I really shouldn't be surprised. I always find matches to be better after watching them a few times.

Still don't want Rock/Cena at WM again. If they have to have it, then put it on a B PPV. But we really shouldn't be getting any rematches on the biggest show of the year. Unless it's a match that happened years and years ago. Unless there's a crazy stipulation attached to a recent rematch, like someones career. Other than that, give us something else.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

ATF said:


> Why poor D-Bry? It's the most sense-making scenario right now. Team Hell No is bound to break up at some point (possibly this Sunday after Rhodes Scholars beat them), and the blow-off of an angle that had the world in the palm of its hands at a certain point usually has to happen at WM. Not to mention, Bryan/Kane matches are usually pretty good, and what better way to put D-Bry over than have him beat a former-WWE Champion/WHC Champion in Kane at the Biggest Stage of 'Em All? And with Dr. Shelby there as guest ref, it does have its potential
> 
> Although there's an argument that could be made for Bryan's match at WM to be fueled by him winning the Royal Rumble match (though I'd mark the fuck out if it both Bryan and Kane were to co-win the RR, like Luger and Bret in 94 :mark: ).


I hear ya.' I just think after last years disaster, he deserves something better. And I know the odds of that happening are slim to none. Bryan vs Kane would be okay, I just want something better after basically not getting a Bryan match at WM last year.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I hear ya.' I just think after last years disaster, he deserves something better. And I know the odds of that happening are slim to none. Bryan vs Kane would be okay, I just want something better after basically not getting a Bryan match at WM last year.


I think there's a genuine chance D-Bry could be in a main event title match at WM30. Obviously it depends on the 'comeback kids' (Lesnar, Rock etc.) but he's definitely over enough and clearly talented enough to be a top face in the company.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I hear ya.' I just think after last years disaster, he deserves something better. And I know the odds of that happening are slim to none. Bryan vs Kane would be okay, I just want something better after basically not getting a Bryan match at WM last year.


Feel ya here. After getting cheated out of a Daniel Bryan two years in a row at WM as well, I understand what you mean.

However, with the possible *cough*rematches*cough* card we're getting at this year's Mania, Bryan/Kane is actually the (re)match I'm looking the more forward to, and I'd believe that's the more logical step for D-Bry at WM this year.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

I think we should just pray Bryan gets a 10 match at this year's Mania. Regardless of who with or against :/




KingOfKings said:


> Punk-Rock-Cena and Taker-Lesnar W/ The Game as Referee is my last prediction for Wrestlemania XXIX and I'm sticking to it.


I will take this for certain. I leaned towards these two matches about 6 months ago as they made perfect sense and serve as excellent closure for long storylines. But then we got all the Punk/Taker streak vs streak talk, and Triple H GETTING HIS WIN BACK and the idea floundered. 

I'd also be alright with the idea of Taker/Punk and Lesnar/Cena/Rock, but the glaring problem you have there is they both need to be for the title. I can't even begin to contemplate how they'd build an Orton/Lesnar match :lol



WOOLCOCK said:


> Also, I know it will never happen but we can all agree that a scenario where the 29th man is eliminated moments before #30 comes out, thus meaning he would only have to enter the ring to win would rule the universe right?


I'd love it for its originality but I'd want the rest of the card to be stacked because we're talking about a relatively short Rumble (unless they bumped it up to like 2 1/2 minute intervals).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I know I'm late but I was at work. Punk's matches over ***1/2:

*Punk/Jericho, ER ****1/2
Punk/Bryan, OTL ****1/2
Punk/Cena, NOC *****

That's all I have. I don't remember much about the rest tbh. I personally wouldn't have it as one of the greatest championships reigns of all time never mind THE greatest. Personal taste though. Outside of these matches and the fact that it has been so long, I'd say it has been rather underwhelming. Again, it all comes down to personal taste. I'm obviously not including a lot of stuff here because I just can't remember it. Those would be his standout matches. As far as standout feuds are concerned, well, he doesn't have much to work with and that's the main part that lets him down, for me anyways. 

The never ending Mania 29 predictions discussion continues lol. I'm 100% on Rock/Cena II happening and we don't have long to find out. I'm still pretty certain on Brock/Taker too. Starting to think HHH won't have a match but will still appear at the show in some fashion. Maybe he could get involved with The Shield and form a team to take them out or something along those lines. No idea about Punk. Ryback maybe? Not a clue. Like I said though, we won't be long finding out. Hard to believe the Rumble is just 3 days away now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Blasted through the 2010 and 2011 RR events tonight. Just one to go now! And one of those two I watched is just 0.5 points ahead of the WORST Rumble events ever. Hell the other one is only 2 points ahead of that. Not good .

Already started 2012, watched the triple threat cage. Enjoyed it a ton. Not "great" per say, but I likes it.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

The last actual good Rumble match was 2009 (although they all have their charm and enjoyment levels). 2010 seemed to fly by ridiculously fast; I think it had 90 second intervals and the ending was really quickly done. Edge eliminated Jericho stupidly fast imo.

Does anybody else get really bummed out watching live when number 30 comes out? Like the feeling you get at Christmas when you think "fuck it's another year until we get this". I'm still hoping for another OMG entrant since Cena in 2008, and we've since had Big Show entering at number 30 twice.



Starbuck said:


> No idea about Punk. Ryback maybe? Not a clue.


Sheamus? :side:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jeez, Big Show entering at #30 must be the biggest disappointment ever. All that excitement and then...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that was pretty fucking bad.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

30 needs to be this guy...

:brock

I'd mark. 

I reckon it goes to Ryback though as a big moment for him to come in and start eliminating a lot of people at once most likely. Either Ryback or they do actually have a big name surprise entrant coming in at the end. At least it won't be Big Show this time. Talk about disappointment. I swear you could literally feel the entire arena deflate when his music hit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DUKE THE DUMPSTER DROSE was the most disappointing #30 ever in 1996 lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

At least in 96 huge surprises/returns hadn't become the norm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What do huge surprises and #30 have to do with anything though? How often is the last guy a surprise return? Once, with Cena. Undertaker made his return in 03 as #30 but they announced his return before hand.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't Edge return at #30?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, 29.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ah, my mistake. Guess it felt like #30 was always a bigger deal, return or not. Show just felt like a massive letdown.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I thought Edge's return and win in 2010 was pretty shitty. Cena's was a genuine surprise and mark out moment. Edge's was totally expected and completely underwhelming for me. I didn't enjoy it. I think the Rumble match this year is going to be really good though. I can't help but be optimistic about it. Shield spot plz. How about they hijack the match and eliminate lots of people until Ryback comes in and destroys? That would be a cool spot. Speaking of which, I hope we get a few cool spots with different guys as the match progresses. Rhodes Scholars, 3MB, Seamus, Orton, Ryback, Cena etc. The potential is there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

#30 has comprised of guys like Duke Drose, The Warlord, Tugboat, Adam Bomb, Crush, Chyna, X-Pac, Rikishi and Booker T . Big Show as #30 is FAR better than any of those guys.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Not when you trick yourself into believing it's going to be somebody......BIG...... :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I thought Edge's return and win in 2010 was pretty shitty. Cena's was a genuine surprise and mark out moment. Edge's was totally expected and completely underwhelming for me. I didn't enjoy it. I think the Rumble match this year is going to be really good though. I can't help but be optimistic about it. Shield spot plz. How about they hijack the match and eliminate lots of people until Ryback comes in and destroys? That would be a cool spot. Speaking of which, I hope we get a few cool spots with different guys as the match progresses. Rhodes Scholars, 3MB, Seamus, Orton, Ryback, Cena etc. The potential is there.


That inclusion of The Shield sounds great. I, too, am looking forward to this Sunday and will definitely be ordering the event live.



Big Z said:


> #30 has comprised of guys like Duke Drose, The Warlord, Tugboat, Adam Bomb, Crush, Chyna, X-Pac, Rikishi and Booker T . Big Show as #30 is FAR better than any of those guys.


Well when you put it like that.... :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Not when you trick yourself into believing it's going to be somebody......BIG...... :side:


Well whose fault is that? Huh? Huh? :|


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Was #30 that year being hyped as a big surprise? If so, I see what you guys are saying, very disappointing. But I honestly don't remember if it was hyped as a surprise.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

At the time, Cena's #30 return was like my biggest disappointment in wrestling. I really didn't like Cena and I was all 'fuck yeah, HHH WINNIN' THIS BITCH to get the Title back from stinky orton. YEAH!' Then Cena's music played and I was like 'No. NO. No......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdh_ISiBC-I'

Then he won and I was pissed off.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> At the time, Cena's #30 return was like my biggest disappointment in wrestling. I really didn't like Cena and I was all 'fuck yeah, HHH WINNIN' THIS BITCH to get the Title back from stinky orton. YEAH!' Then Cena's music played and I was like 'No. NO. No......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdh_ISiBC-I'
> 
> Then he won and I was pissed off.


This times a million. Was stoked that HHH was going to win.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Well whose fault is that? Huh? Huh? :|


Mine 

I'll order the Rumble on Sunday but I'm definitely getting it. Not too sure on the Chamber yet, even if Rock's going to be there. I need to see what the card looks like first. It's going to be weird ordering Mania to watch on PPV this year instead of attending in person. This will be the first Mania I will watch at home since 24. In a way, I think I'm sort of praying for all these rematches because then they won't be happening next year when I most certainly will be going lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't expect anything from the #30 spot. Will not catch the event live due to school starting early but wow, I will definitely wake up as soon as I have to just to see the result of The Rock's match and then download the full show and watch it as soon as I'm home. (regardless of title change or the scary thought of Punk retaining)

Have been reading Jericho's Undisputed book throughout the day and almost made it halfway through now. So much great stuff to read. It's hilarious how he buries everything he did in 1999 and the backstage heat he had then. Also cheated my way into the chapter about Benoit which was a very interesting read as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I ordered the RR tonight. Won't be ordering EC because its usually "free" on Sky Sports over here, and I don't pay for sports channels. So download as usual . RR and WM are the only two I ALWAYS pay for every year.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

EC is on sky sports? I didn't know that. Even better then, I won't have to buy it. I'll definitely be getting Mania no matter the card. It's Mania at he end of the day. My next PPV though just might be RR 14. I only got Summerslam last year because of HHH/Brock and I only got Survivor Series the year before for Rock. I just don't think they're worth the money anymore. DAT STAR POWER...or lack thereof.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> EC is on sky sports? I didn't know that. .


With The Rock on it this year, we'll probably have to pay this year


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think last year I ordered RR, WM and ER. That was it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, i ordered ER cos Brock was in it and WM cos Taker was in it, doubtful im ordering the Rumble tbh, ill have to see what Mania brings before i decide on that.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Last WWE PPV I ordered was MITB 2011 and that's because I didn't attend the show along with the awesome build too. Already ordered Rumble and can't wait for Sunday!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the last PPV I ordered was No Mercy 2008. Yep, it was. Ever since them I discovered streams _(good ones too)_ or just held off and downloaded as soon as possible without spoilers.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Last ppv I actually ordered I think was Wrestlemania 25

Will be ordering 29. Not too sure on the Rumble yet.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I order like every PPV because fuck it and :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did you order CAPITOL PUNISHMENT even with R-Truth main eventing?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Da GOAT's title reign: 

vs Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) : ***3/4
vs Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC) : ****
vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) : ***1/4
RAW Elimination Chamber (Elimination Chamber) : ***1/2
vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania) : ****1/4
vs Mark Henry (4/2 RAW) : **** ("I OWN YOU, BOY")
vs Mark Henry (UK RAW) : ***1/2
vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) : ****1/4
vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) : ****3/4
vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (No Way Out) : ***1/2
vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) : ***1/2
vs John Cena (RAW 1000) : **1/2
vs John Cena vs Big Show (Summerslam) : ***
vs John Cena (Night of Champions) : ****1/2
vs Ryback (Hell in a Cell) : *3/4
vs Ryback vs John Cena (Survivor Series) : **1/2
vs Ryback (RAW 13) : ***1/2

Rewatching those Henry matches now just for the hell of it. Crowd for both are fucking awesome, some of Henry's best work ever.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk's reign:

vs Alberto Del Rio (Survivor Series) : ***3/4
vs Miz vs Alberto Del Rio (TLC) : ***3/4
vs Dolph Ziggler (Royal Rumble) : ***1/2
RAW Elimination Chamber (Elimination Chamber) : ***1/2
vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania) : ****1/4
vs Mark Henry (4/2 RAW) : ****
vs Mark Henry (UK RAW) : ***1/4
vs Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) : ***3/4
vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) : *****
vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (No Way Out) : ***3/4
vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank) : ***1/4
vs John Cena (RAW 1000) : ***
vs John Cena vs Big Show (Summerslam) : **1/4
vs John Cena (Night of Champions) : ****
vs Ryback (Hell in a Cell) : ***
vs Ryback vs John Cena (Survivor Series) : ***
vs Ryback (RAW 13) : ***1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hailsabin said:


> Did you order CAPITOL PUNISHMENT even with R-Truth main eventing?


Ok that I didn't order. C'mon, I have to have some restraint.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll never understand the appeal of the match vs Del Rio from Survivor Series. I was pretty bored up until the finish.

that PPV sucks hard too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that event sucked. (ordered it )


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So glad I only spent 5 bucks to own it. It was only appealing b/c of the Punker win. I didn't even like Henry vs Show. Granted, I think it deserves another watch.

Cody Rhodes being over =


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> I'll never understand the appeal of the match vs Del Rio from Survivor Series. I was pretty bored up until the finish.
> 
> that PPV sucks hard too.


Event sucked big time, the hot crowd helped things though. It helped the Del Rio/Punk match a lot. Pop for the pin was huge. Finishing sequence was great, too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Won by submission, but I get your point.

Great crowd, just like at TLC 2012. Another event I wasn't too keen on pardon the excellent TLC Match.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Hailsabin said:


> Won by submission, but I get your point.
> 
> Great crowd, just like at TLC 2012. Another event I wasn't too keen on pardon the excellent TLC Match.


Funny how easily I would mistake that since I just watched it the other day, but yes by submission.  Thanks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Used to Knees to Faces for the win is my guess as to why you got a tad askew.

:hmm:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk throwing a mic at Ricardo leading to Del Rio giving him a cuddle because he looked like the saddest person in the world was a highlight of a live show I was at just after Survivor Series in 2011.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

Starting on 1998 now, gave up on current product so focusing on watching old stuff. on the RAW after Rumble, it's amazing just how much better EVERYTHING was back then. Story-lines, crowd, characters... i'd even say the matches were more entertaining (not necessarily better technically though). Austin was THE MAN, and DX were just flat-out great.

Punk/DelRio: **3/4 (As a Punk mark, loved the ending, but match felt a little flat until the finishing stretch)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now Ricardo is a face and is totally unbearable. I would have probably enjoyed the rumor of a Ricardo & Del Rio break up with Ricardo being a face. Now? Nope. He's just some annoying ring announcer who's not a fun antagonist like he used to be.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Question: Are WWE capable of making likeable faces?

I seriously can't think of an actual LIKEABLE face that I like based on their character and whatnot rather than in ring ability. Most of the faces are retarded or absolute cunts.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PPVs I've ordered in the PG Era ;

Summerslam 2011
TLC 2011
Wrestlemania XXVIII
Over The Limit 2012

Was gonna order Summerslam 2012, Extreme Rules 2012, and Money in the Bank 2011 but couldn't due to a few friends being out of town (we usually pool our money together)...... For the Rumble it's gonna depend on where I am... If I go home tomorrow than I'll probably just stream it, but if I stay on campus this weekend it looks like I'll be going to the local theater to watch it with a crowd of like 500 people  It's usually VERY interesting because everybody's marking out. 

If I stay on campus this weekend, I'll also have a decision to make ; there are two Indy shows happening at the exact same time, one headlined by Tommy Dreamer and one headlined by Gangrel that comes with an exclusive VIP session. I have half a mind to go to the Gangrel one and tell him that CAL is his number one fan :lol .... If I'm here though I'm probably gonna end up going to the Dreamer one, because well... It's GANGREL !


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't mind Sheamus' character. Which would make this forum explode. He smiles now but he also is down for a brawl at the drop of the hat. In serious fashion too.

Kane & Daniel Bryan are obvious choices too. They're meant to be comical though. So when they're making me laugh, I don't mind it. It's not like a random John Cena promo talking about blow up dolls.

WWE is going the WRONG way with Del Rio as a face. Lets promote fucking Mexican viewership instead of actually establishing a character for him. Awful. I like him, however at this rate they're going to make me want to see him get destroyed every night thanks to that appealing to one part of the fanbase type crap.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Question: Are WWE capable of making likeable faces?
> 
> I seriously can't think of an actual LIKEABLE face that I like based on their character and whatnot rather than in ring ability. Most of the faces are retarded or absolute cunts.


On the current roster or ever? Eddie was plenty likeable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm certain he had to mean current roster. No way someone couldn't find Mick Foley as a likable face.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Forgive me, I'm exhausted.

Current roster... man that's tough. Daniel Bryan is the only one that comes to mind. I like Sheamus just fine but most of that is down to what he does in the ring. I'd say Christian as well when he's a face.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Christian is top notch. Always can get behind him no problem.

Big Show as a face is plenty likable. He has that aspect going for him. No doubt being a big nasty bastard like he currently is rocking has to be his excelling point.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know, I guess Mysterio has always been pretty likeable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

In his matches, sure. On the mic? Nooooooooooooooo


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

God Damnit. I don't know anymore.... It's weird because WWE has so many "faces" and they're all pricks or douchebags like CENA and GRAND THEFT SHEAMUS.

BE A STAR :cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only prick and/or douchebag I can conjure up as faces are Orton & Kofi Kingston.

Orton takes the cake though. lol @ being meant to root for him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know.... Sheamus STOLE SOMEBODY'S CAR AS A RESULT OF A FIGHT THE HE STARTED IN THE FIRST PLACE ! 

I don't even NEED to explain Cena :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus was teaching the rich guy a lesson. Fans could embrace that. :hmm:

CENA DOES IT FOR THE WOMEN AND THE CHILDREN. ROLE MODEL.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Am I losing my mind, or is Orton's ability to work a great match slowly slipping away from him again like it did when he first became "THE VIPER" ? I can't remember the last classic that he was in, I'm for certain it had to be in 2011 with Henry, because everything he did after that as good-meh-average-BAD.

I want that fucker to be great. DO SOMETHING RANDY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope. You are correct. I used to be able to defend him with his wrestling work at least, but now he doesn't even have that anymore. All of his matches are the same. Droll and nothing special. If not flat out poor. It's a shame. How he could go from one of my legit favorites to being what I have to say is my least favorite guy on the roster, is beyond me.

_(he only tops Kofi or Sin Cara b/c of his placement on the card. I have to tolerate his crappy work where as the others are two lower card acts who don't matter)_


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I guess it makes some sense considering that he isn't really involved in something meaningful right now. He's wrestling pointless matches and occasionally getting into a fight with The Shield (that doesn't seem to be going anywhere in particular). Maybe he isn't that motivated or something as a result. 


I liked the match he had with Cesaro on main event last week. I even remember seeing a good match between him and the Big Show on Smackdown last year. 

As for classic, he hasn't really gotten the chance lately. He had some solid matches with Ziggler in the middle of 2012... but yeah. I never really thought he was "great" in the ring or anything, but he's good enough if you utilize him properly. Obviously they haven't focused much on him for a long time. He's very stale at the moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe a character revitalization would help. Not sure though. He seems to not have anything left to give. His work nowadays is more flawed with all of this experience than they were during any stage of his Legend Killer days. Another surprising aspect, if you ask me. You'd think his work would have improved over the years. Not decreased. 

Only matches from 2012 that seemed noteworthy was the series vs Kane, the one match vs Sheamus, and his few vs Danielson. Nothing else leaped out. Not even vs Dolph b/c those matches have ran it's course and were only "pretty good" at best.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Sheamus needs to be more like Ryback and less like John Cena , his comedy is terrible but its not something he needs to do.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Blame the writers is all I can say. 

He's still a brawler/mauler type in the ring pardon that one match on Saturday Morning Slam vs McGillicutty. We know why that was done.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Anybody catch NXT this week? Just watched it there. COREY GRAVES. The tag action was great. Lots of really good teams down there with the Wyatt Family being the stand outs imo. I'm also liking the Neville/Grey duo. That top rope dive, whatever the hell it is, gets better and better every time I see it. 

NXT is just so good. Like, I don't understand how it can be this good. I enjoy it so much every week and the character development compared to the main shows is flat out scary. Fantastic show.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

You're right, NXT is awsome. I really can't believe that it's WWE material. PAC was again great this week, just like Graves. The Wyatt Family is a nice tag team


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got it downloaded. It's pretty late here so I probably won't watch it till tomorrow. More rave reviews about Graves in the NXT thread. Can't wait to see what he does to garner the attention. Hopefully he'll take the Championship off of Langston soon. Was pulling for Graves to be the original guy to get it from Rollins, only those plans apparently fell through.

PAC/Neville is the man. Saw a highlight of his ever impressive corkscrew shooting star press. So glad WWE allowed him to use that. 

Wyatt Family? Which means a Luke Harper match is a posibility. I'm officially excited. :mark:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah, after seeing this NXT it's taken me a wee while but I'm finally on the Corey Graves bandwagon. Guy has a character that could be very endearing as a cutting edge babyface on the main roster. He's the kind of guy that I could somehow see forge some sort of bond with Punk in the future? He could be some sort of Punk protege.

Can't wait to see more of Neville, and the Wyatt Family continue on their merry way, although their match this week was pretty by the numbers and I think Erick Rowan needs to improve. Harper though is a beast.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Just watched Sheamus vs McGillicutty from this week's Saturday Morning Slam and I'd definitely recommend you to do the same if you want to see a fun under 10 minute match that doesn't take itself seriously. It's a refreshing change to see Sheamus not work as a brawling brute even if he does excel in that role. The comedy spots were actually... funny and this match just goes to show that you don't always need to work an equal-sided back-and-forth match for it to be entertaining.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

What's Graves gimmick, anyway? I can't put my finger on it..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Yeah, after seeing this NXT it's taken me a wee while but I'm finally on the Corey Graves bandwagon. Guy has a character that could be very endearing as a cutting edge babyface on the main roster. He's the kind of guy that I could somehow see forge some sort of bond with Punk in the future? He could be some sort of Punk protege.
> 
> Can't wait to see more of Neville, and the Wyatt Family continue on their merry way, although their match this week was pretty by the numbers and I think Erick Rowan needs to improve. Harper though is a beast.


Luke Harper is the man. My favorite guy working on NXT right now. His work in the ring is stellar. Can't wait for him to show what he has to offer in a WWE ring.



Cactus said:


> Just watched Sheamus vs McGillicutty from this week's Saturday Morning Slam and I'd definitely recommend you to do the same if you want to see a fun under 10 minute match that doesn't take itself seriously. It's a refreshing change to see Sheamus not work as a brawling brute even if he does excel in that role. The comedy spots were actually... funny and this match just goes to show that you don't always need to work an equal-sided back-and-forth match for it to be entertaining.


Yep, it was a lot of fun. Reminded me of Chikara, tbhayley. I think that's why I got a kick out of it.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> What's Graves gimmick, anyway? I can't put my finger on it..


Looks to be one of those greasy throwback punk rockers like you'd see in Rancid. Just obnoxious and cocky but with a slight sadistic edge.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NXT Full Sail >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NXT Redemption (even if this one did havd the Tyson/Barreta/Yoshi matches)

Thoughts on The Great American Bash 2007?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> NXT Full Sail >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NXT Redemption (even if this one did havd the Tyson/Barreta/Yoshi matches)
> 
> Thoughts on The Great American Bash 2007?


I like NXT Redemption and it's wacky plots. 

It's not bad. Had two GREAT matches in Umaga/Hardy & Cena/Lashley. Rest is sort of there. Only real stinker was the Carlito vs Sandman match and it's honestly watchable to say the least. It's one of the better shows from 2007 I'd say. That year brought out some bad events though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It was an ok show, I really liked the Cena vs Lashley match, thought thet could have make it longer.

Thoughts on Summerslam 1990? I remember that natch between Hogan and Earthquaqe, witch was pretty good


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hailsabin said:


> It's not bad. Had two GREAT matches in Umaga/Hardy & Cena/Lashley. Rest is sort of there. Only real stinker was the Carlito vs Sandman match and it's honestly watchable to say the least. It's one of the better shows from 2007 I'd say. That year brought out some bad events though.


Was that Umaga/Hardy match the one where Hardy sells the Samoan Spike brilliantly at the end? I always hated that move as a finisher.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Summerslam 1990 had a lot of short matches. It's nothing entirely special. A fun nostalgia trip and that's about it.

Recall liking the Demolition vs Hart Foundation 2/3 falls match. Cage match main event is a bit of a blur except for the ending. Rude got something great out of Warrior once. Perhaps he worked his magic again.

Tornado vs Perfect was fun for the time it got.

EDIT @AlienBountyHunter ~ Yep. That match is brilliant. I love it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Srdjan99 said:


> What's Graves gimmick, anyway? I can't put my finger on it..


My take on him is that he's some form of an anarchist rebel but with a deadly mean streak. STAY DOWN. Regal described him as 'purely menacing' which is spot on to me. He's got that evil edginess to him but at the same time I think there's something of a charming nature to him as well which will no doubt help if he turns face down the line. I really dig it. Tons of potential for WWE to work with as he moves up the rosters. He just has that IT factor.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wooo nitro 19996


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NEW WORLD ORDER?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

not just yet. i had chris benoit vssomeone on


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BENOIT.

that works too. 

Got on WWF No Way Out (of Texas) atm. Marc Mero's music hits, great theme. Out comes Mero...then SABLE. Massive pop. Not for Mero. He's jealous. Eventually they get divorced. Hilarious.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao love old wwf


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even JR pointed it out too :lmao

The Artist Formally Known As Goldust is his partner. What a bad gimmick for him. It's like the Marilyn Manson version of Goldust. Sable is INSANELY over. It's outrageous.

HEADBANGERS


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

LINK MEEEE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WHAT A CROWD


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what am i watchinngg


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

WWF No Way Out (of Texas)

it's from Feb 1998. First NWO PPV event. It's right before WrestleMania 14. So AUSTIN.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what part should i watch for austin


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's in the main event so if you want to see Austin you'll have to skip a lot towards the end.

this opener is awful. Classic attitude era.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is the main event of that the match where SAVIO was a replacemenet for SHAWN FUCKING MICHAELS? :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

AUSTIN VS HELMSLEY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Is the main event of that the match where SAVIO was a replacemenet for SHAWN FUCKING MICHAELS? :lmao


YES :lmao

JR just called Brian Christopher "Jerry's son". lolz. King is defending it up an down.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

No Way Out 1998 was alright. Main event was awesome though. Plus, I always found the commentary duo of Brian Christopher / Jerry Lawler hilarious. Did BC do commentary on this card?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. During Taka vs Pantera, of course.

JR kept bringing up the family stuff more and their retorts back to JR were great. Not to mention all of the borderline racist comments by Brian were hilarious too. "I call that the flying burrito." "He put some Yen in the back pocket of the ref and that's why he won."

Flashbacks to Bobby Heenan here.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Man, JRs comments are awesome.

'Daddy dearest'
'My boy Brian!'
'Hey King, if Sunny married your boy Brian Christopher, she'd be your daughter in law!'


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao @ the last one.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Hailsabin said:


> :lmao @ the last one.


Haha yeah he said it at Bad Blood 97. King sounded legit pissed off too!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Posted 2010 RR thoughts on my blog .

Just finished watching 2012 RR as well. Phew, that's em all out the way. Now I can relax and never had to sit through another RR event until... this weekend .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WCW Beach Blast 1992 is a clasic. Sting vs Cactus Jack and Rick Rude vs Ricky Steamboat are 2 excellent matches


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hungry for the first legit WWE MOTYC of 2013. Hopefully we get one this Sunday. Interested to see how Del Rio beats Show. The finish to their first LMS was great and they'll have to do something equally creative and well executed to make Del Rio keeping Show down for 10 a second time believable. 

The card in general looks good to me. Team Hell No v Team Rhodes Scholars should be solid. Apparently Cesaro v Miz is going to be on the pre-show. That's slightly disappointing. Wouldn't have complained if that match made it to the main card.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Are Cesaro and Miz also in the Rumble? I was kinda hoping their match would make the card, too. Always down to see Cesaro.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

YouTube Pre-Show


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Are Cesaro and Miz also in the Rumble? I was kinda hoping their match would make the card, too. Always down to see Cesaro.


Yeah they are.

Cesaro/Miz actually has some decent build behind it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rumble is the only thing I can see being a potential MOTYC tbh. And Rumbles are very unpredictable as far as quality goes. Ziggler/Sheamus from Main Event at ***3/4 is the best MOTYC I have so far but I'd like to see something venture into ****.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I know they're on the pre-show. I was wondering if they also entered themselves in the Rumble match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Probably. I can't see why the US Champion won't be in the Rumble


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Rumble is the only thing I can see being a potential MOTYC tbh. And Rumbles are very unpredictable as far as quality goes. Ziggler/Sheamus from Main Event at ***3/4 is the best MOTYC I have so far but I'd like to see something venture into ****.


I don't like comparing Rumbles to other matches. Usually leave them off my MOTY lists.

Sheamus/Ziggler tops my list too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still haven't seen Ziggler/Sheamus. Maybe I'll watch that now.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

The Lady Killer said:


> I know they're on the pre-show. I was wondering if they also entered themselves in the Rumble match.


Yes, they both were apart of the last segment on RAW of wrestlers proclaiming themselves the winner of the RR and Miz mentioned that he'd be in the rumble on Main Event during Cesaro's match. I wouldn't be surprised to see the losers of the world title matches in the rumble, it's happened the last 2 years.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah, now I remember that the WWE announced on their website that Miz and Cesaro will be in the Rumble


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sweet, thanks. Didn't catch all of Raw. 

Very interested to see how The Shield play into Sunday's event.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Sweet, thanks. Didn't catch all of Raw.
> 
> Very interested to see how The Shield play into Sunday's event.


What do you think would be better? Shield entering the Rumble and causing havoc, or Shield not entering the Rumble, but eliminating someone big, perhaps setting up a feud?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think they'll enter the Rumble, but they'll play a part in a few eliminations. Probably have something to do with Ryback/Sheamus/Orton's eliminations. Wonder if that sets up a Mania 6-man.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think they'll enter the Rumble, but they'll play a part in a few eliminations. Probably have something to do with Ryback/Sheamus/Orton's eliminations. Wonder if that sets up a Mania 6-man.


This sounds good to me. Having them in the Rumble means they would have to get eliminated. (N)


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What do you think would be better? Shield entering the Rumble and causing havoc, or Shield not entering the Rumble, but eliminating someone big, perhaps setting up a feud?


The second option is better especially considering the gimmick they have. A 6man tag should definitely be set up for WM.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> This sounds good to me. Having them in the Rumble means they would have to get eliminated. (N)


Yeah, there's no reason to waste 3 spots on them either. It would be more effective if they attacked despite not being in the match itself.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Exactly, and I don't see that happening. WWE has been very careful about the situations they put them in, and I don't see that changing. What would any of them gain by entering the Rumble? It's not like any of them have (kayfabe) title aspirations at the moment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plus kayfabe wise, who would allow them to participate in the match?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, isn't the RR supposed to have anyone to be elligible to enter anyway? Well at least it's what they've being these last few years. Although they could just do like Foley in 2004, and enter the match just to eliminate Ryback AND themselves.

GAB 07 IS one of the better shows of 07 IMO. Carlito/Sandman really was the only stinker, every other thing was good or very good. Even Khali/Batista/Kane was very good IMO. Only WrestleMania, Backlash, Survivor Series and Armageddon were better shows that year I guess (No Mercy could be guessed as well).

As far as SSlam 90, nice show. Warrior/Rude is Warrior's best match ever that doesn't have Hogan or Savage in it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

No Mercy '07 = the Triple H show


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

That's why I said they should attack three people back stage and take there number. I remember someone doing that in the past, a late 90s Rumble I believe?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^

HHH/Orton I - ***
HHH/Umaga - **3/4
HHH/Orton II - ****1/4

My ratings for his matches on NM 07.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No Mercy 07 was really good


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, just finished watching Finlay/Lashley have one of the awesomest (yes, new word!) brawls ever. They went to the parking lot and Lashley tipped a car over in attempt to crush Finlay. Wish they had more of these violent brawls today. The closest we've got is that goofy segment with Orton and Barrett when Orton dumped trash on Barrett and then RKOed him on top of a car. Oh and DAT WATER BEING HOSED!

On the other side, Raw's Road to WM22 has been kind of painful. HBK/Vince feud is AWFUL and keeps getting all this TV time and quite frankly, Vince is fucking horrible. Can't believe I'll have to put up with this shit all the way until Unforgiven. And Candice/Torrie also take TV time with their petty, irrelevant "feud" and iconic pillow fight that was too good to let the Smackdown main event go the full length.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> ^
> 
> HHH/Orton I - ***
> HHH/Umaga - **3/4
> ...


THE GAME


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To be honest, the best build up for WM 22 was Trish/Mickie. PSYCHO LESBIAN :yum:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> To be honest, the best build up for WM 22 was Trish/Mickie. PSYCHO LESBIAN :yum:


Now I'm just waiting for her to officially turn heel. Mickie is such an awesome actor, that segment with her pretending to be abused by Trish's "date" was hilarious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mickie as the psycho lesbian was like, the greatest thing EVER. She should do it again in TNA. Though not sure who I'd want her to go after. None of the knockouts over there are all that imo . Maybe the ref, TIFFANY.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> To be honest, the best build up for WM 22 was Trish/Mickie. PSYCHO LESBIAN :yum:


Probably the greatest build up to any divas match ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shawn Micheals vs Jeff Jarrett - IYH 1995

****

Still an excellent match, just watching the Heartbreak DVD.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Did WWE recently re-sign Shelton Benjamin? Just saw a thread about him potentially being at the Rumble. I completely missed this news.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I heard they were looking to bring in some past midcarders (MVP, Shelton, Carlito, etc) to work with the new talent but I figured it was just a rumor/never came to fruition. Perhaps there was talk of bringing Shelton in for a one-time Rumble nostalgia pop but Idk if he's actually re-signed with the company.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Interesting. I like the idea of having Benjamin back in the company. He'd be a good guy to have working matches with people like Cesaro and Barrett in the mid-card.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Me too. They really need to continue bolstering the midcard. I'm so tired of seeing squash matches every week involving the same group of guys. The midcard "feuds" lack depth.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

This match is short but it's one of those awesome short matches, think it's mostly down to the Canadian's

Also, Shane's method of running away at the end is hilarious. :lmao


----------



## wayneyb (Jun 26, 2007)

Received in the post today from Silvervision's sale:

CM Punk Best in the World bluray - been after this for so long, an absolute steal at £9.99 (-10% off too)
No Way Out 2012 bluray
Summerslam 2012 bluray

Cannot wait to get started on the Punk set tomorrow, heard such good things about it.

Also, can anyone suggest where I can pick up some Raw/Smackdown full sets from 2003/2004 on DVD, preferably in the UK.
My previous source sold all his master copies so struggling to find them anywhere else.
If anyone is interested I have Raw/SD sets from 1998-2001 for sale - pm me for details.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I still have yet to see Punk's documentary. Really need to change that soon.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Smackdown 10/3/2006*

William Regal vs Paul Burchill - ★★¼
- Okay, the way Regal talks about Burchill's pirate gimmick is hilarious and the thing itself is just laughable. But that doesn't prevent these two from having a good match together. Too bad a complete lack of time does that instead. Also Burchill's finisher looks kinda funny since he seemingly landed on his head here.

Chris Benoit vs Gregory Helms - ★★★
- Very fun champion vs champion match. Benoit plays the douchebag role to the cocky heel pretty well as he constantly goes for Helms' injured nose and eventually beats him with the Crossface.

Randy Orton & Mark Henry vs Kurt Angle & Rey Mysterio - ★★¾
- Another enjoyable match. Standard tag stuff but gets awesome in the end when Mizark ruthlessly kills the referee and Daivari brings out a table. Rey is saved by Angle but in return, Angle takes an RKO and Mark gives him DAT AWESOME SPLASH through the table. Obligatory Undertaker interruption post-match as he confirms their casket match by voice only.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Well, isn't the RR supposed to have anyone to be elligible to enter anyway? Well at least it's what they've being these last few years. Although they could just do like Foley in 2004, and enter the match just to eliminate Ryback AND themselves.
> 
> GAB 07 IS one of the better shows of 07 IMO. Carlito/Sandman really was the only stinker, every other thing was good or very good. Even Khali/Batista/Kane was very good IMO. Only WrestleMania, Backlash, Survivor Series and Armageddon were better shows that year I guess (No Mercy could be guessed as well).
> 
> *As far as SSlam 90, nice show. Warrior/Rude is Warrior's best match ever that doesn't have Hogan or Savage in it.*


Sure you don't mean their clash from Summerslam 1989 instead? :hmm:

(Y) @ Benoit vs Helms from 2006. It's not too long, but it got a decent amount of time. I was one happy fan after that. HELMS.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kinda liked Smackdown's main event tonight. Marked at the crowd chanting Si! for Del Rio.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It sounds pretty good.

I'm WAY over the "Si" crap though. ugh. Don't even get me started on how WWE is probably going to ruin this face turn for me. Already want Ricardo's blood.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> I still have yet to see Punk's documentary. Really need to change that soon.


You have Netflix? It's on there. I have to eventually get around to watching it myself.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I recently got the Punk DVD, and it's one of the better sets WWE has released in a while I think.

The documentary was insightful... and it was the first and only time I've ever identified with a professional wrestler to this extent. The whole outcast punk rock thing is something I relate to (even though he likes bands that I hate). The matches are also entertaining... has the 5 star match with Cena from MITB 2011 in his hometown, match with Morrison on ECW, TLC Match at Summerslam with Jeff Hardy, the excellent Money in the Bank Ladder Match that he won at Wrestlemania 24, his match with Rey Mysterio where he lost his hair etc.

It was also inspirational to see how many opportunities he created for himself. This guy was easily going to be future endeavored but he has this spark in him that no one else on the roster really has. He persevered and took so many risks that got him to where he is today.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy Orton's best match against an inferior opponent ? Had a discussion with a friend earlier about the fact that all of Orton's greatest matches and real CLASSICS (vs Foley, vs Benoit, vs Christian, vs Hunter, vs Shawn, vs Taker) have come against better opponents than him, with his matches against lesser workers (I.E. BARRETT) coming up short in the ratings department.

Mere coincidence or a sign that Orton is overrated in the ring by many ? (FUCK, I knew my love for Randy would be tarnished someday) Thoughts ?

EDIT : In the middle of WRESTLEMANIA IV and I have already enjoyed a pair of matches in Steamboat/Valentine and especially Rude/JAKE. The crowd shits all over the latter and it features a ton of restholds for a 15 minute match, BUT THAT WAS THE FUCKING STORY THEY WERE GOING FOR YOU IDIOTS. Watching that match made me realize just how great of an in-ring psychologist Jake can be sometimes, damn. Could have been OMGAWESOME if they went for a DDT non-finish instead of what they did. I'm probably the only person on the planet who loves that match though.

JAKE. THE. SNAKE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't know if Orton's ever had a "classic" with an inferior worker (though technically I only consider one match of his a classic, which I define at being ****1/2 or above, and that match is against Christian at OTL), but I think his match with Edge on Raw in 2007 was fucking awesome, and I'd consider Orton a better in-ring worker than Edge. Same thing against Edge at Vengeance 2004. And his performance at Breaking Point 09 against Cena was what made that match as great as it was, even if he's not as great a worker as Cena (which I'm not sure if I'd put him above Cena or not, but I lean towards not right now). 

Of course, I do feel he's pulled out some good stuff against Barrett and Henry in 2011, and again with Barrett in 2012, both of whom I'd easily put Orton above. Plus I think I remember enjoying one of his matches with Big Show during the year. Not to mention some good-great matches with Ziggler, Del Rio, Sheamus, and Rhodes, though those guys fall under the category of "I'm not sure where I'd put them as a worker when their matches happened compared to Orton". Though Ziggler I'm high on, Rhodes I think is one of the better workers in WWE, and Sheamus has been on fire on TV, particularly during the last half of 2012.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well when Randy was good he wasn't overrated in the ring. If some want to spout off nowadays about his ring work being on par or at a solid level, then I'd have to claim overrated fits. Most seem to realize he's taken a dip in that department. Even the fans who still enjoy him to this day.

All the matches vs workers that I'd say were or are inferior all came up as only solid/good at best. Well, I'd have to relive the Smackdown matches vs Angle to comment on that front. See, for me, at that time I'd certainly take Orton over Angle. Orton was rocking and rolling with his cocky Legend Killer work and Angle was already in his blah intense phase so he was already falling down in my books. Their PPV matches were both decent and solid. TV could be a whole different ballpark.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just looked it up, and HIS MAJESTY DAVE MELTZER gave Jake-Rude NEGATIVE TWO STARS. FUCK YOU DAVE. Worst rating for a match that I've ever seen since I saw somebody give the BORK-SHOW stretcher match one star.

When it comes to Orton, I feel that when he wants to turn it on he's one of the best. Definitely agree with RAWK that Orton is a superior worker to the vastly overrated Edge, but then again I never really adored any Orton-Edge matches outside of their 2004 pair on Vengeance-RAW. Still say Orton's peak was from the beginning of the Undertaker feud all the way up to his wellness violation and subsequent "ANKLE BREAKING" at the hands of Kurt Angle. Don't think he has reached that elite level of work since he came back TBH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His work during the latter half of 2007 on PPV was pretty good. I liked the Summerslam match vs Cena, vs Trips at No Mercy gave us two matches that were worthwhile, one being GREAT, vs Shawn both times were (Y), and he finished it off with a quality match vs Jericho. Rolling into 2008 it continued with his bouts vs Jeff Hardy, vs Cena, & the fun triple threat for WrestleMania. After that it dropped. He did get injured again so there is that.

Can't say I argue with where you consider his peak to be. I'd group in his 2004 work too, tbhayley. Or early Legend Killer stuff in general. Don't know how he was better then than more recent years.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This obviously has nothing to do with it, but ever since he got that DAMN VOICES SONG and started taking longer than the fucking Undertaker to walk to the ring I knew something was up... His character was shit and it was spilling into his work. Sometimes I can't fucking stand Orton from his return from injury in late 2008-2011.

Just watched Hogan-Andre III. I'd say it's better than their Wrestlemania III bout, but that's not exactly saying much at all :lol STILL CAN'T GET OVER HOW UNDERRATED THAT RUDE-ROBERTS MATCH IS. FUCK YOU MELTZER.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BADASS SERVERS


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

> When it comes to Orton, I feel that when he wants to turn it on he's one of the best. Definitely agree with RAWK that Orton is a superior worker to the vastly overrated Edge, but then again I never really adored any Orton-Edge matches outside of their 2004 pair on Vengeance-RAW. Still say Orton's peak was from the beginning of the Undertaker feud all the way up to his wellness violation and subsequent "ANKLE BREAKING" at the hands of Kurt Angle. Don't think he has reached that elite level of work since he came back TBH.


I'd agree with that assessment of Orton's peak if we're talking character. However, if we're talking about him as a worker, I'd gotta give it to 2011. Orton was on fire, and whether his opponent was better than him or not, he was producing quality matches week in week out, and of course had his awesome series with Christian.

By the way, don't really know how you can call Edge overrated. I rarely if ever see Edge as an in-ring worker getting praised at all, to the point where I think he's underrated if anything. Granted, I wouldn't call him a great worker, but I don't believe he's garbage because I truly believe anyone that sucked wouldn't have had as many quality matches as he's had, even with the likes of Taker, Cena, Flair, HBK, Ziggler, RVD, Orton, Angle and more. He's a solid worker, and I think the general thought on his in-ring work is that, if not lower, which makes me scratch my head when you call him overrated... unless you're referring to how WWE portrays him, which I suppose I should remind you it's WWE and best to take what they say with a grain of salt most of the time.

But you didn't like the Edge/Orton Raw match after Backlash in 07?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never seen all of WrestleMania IV as much as it pains me to admit it. _(fake fan? never seen every WrestleMania yet)_ Part of me had to know Meltzer's thoughts on Roberts/Rude were off. Unless it was the most boring 15 minute match ever, I couldn't see it being too bad. The talent involved is too good. Of course an off night could have happened, but I knew it was something I'd have to see to believe.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Here's the thing about Roberts/Rude : The crowd hates it because of all the headlocks/chinlocks and shit like that, but that was the point to the match all along, even the commentators beat it to death.

You're not missing much ; These early Manias are fucking horrible anyways  This fucking PPV has SIXTEEN fucking matches on it. SIXTEEN.

That Edge/Orton match is okay I suppose but I vastly prefer their 2004 series. In terms of Edge not being called a great in ring worker, it just kind of irks me when I hear stupid people saying that he's a superior worker to the likes of Punk and Bryan, fuck that noise.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> This obviously has nothing to do with it, but ever since he got that DAMN VOICES SONG and started taking longer than the fucking Undertaker to walk to the ring I knew something was up...


If Taker and Orton ever have a match together again, I have a feeling the entrances will be longer than the match. Hell, all things considered, this is how it'd end up:

5 minute video package/hyping
15 minutes for Orton
20 minutes for Taker
25 minutes for match
15 minutes of Taker celebrating so Orton can make it to the back
20 minutes for Taker to make his way to the back

And THAT'S how you can kill over half a PPV, or almost half a Wrestlemania.



> That Edge/Orton match is okay I suppose but I vastly prefer their 2004 series. In terms of Edge not being called a great in ring worker, it just kind of irks me when I hear stupid people saying that he's a superior worker to the likes of Punk and Bryan, fuck that noise.


Who says that? Give me their names and addresses, and as an Edge-mark, I'll go straighten those morons out.

Might also just be Punk haters/people who prefer everybody that was in the AE to everybody in today's WWE in every department.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

So I've got EVERY nitro from 1995-1997 now with the first month of 1998 too. I'm onto the PPV's now, downloading all of 1996 atm.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They had a match on Raw in December 2009 that lasted like 3 minutes. The entrances combined for like 10 minutes I do believe, that shit was actually fucked :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> So I've got EVERY nitro from 1995-1997 now with the first month of 1998 too. I'm onto the PPV's now, downloading all of 1996 atm.


Great American Bash '96 - Sting vs Regal & Benoit vs Sullivan :mark:

Starrcade '96 is a great event imo. Oh, and you'll finally see Regal vs Finlay from Uncensored too. It's too bad that main event is like the worst match ever, haha. TOWER OF DOOM.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> They had a match on Raw in December 2009 that lasted like 3 minutes. The entrances combined for like 10 minutes I do believe, that shit was actually fucked :lol


Hm, I know they had a match in February 2009, when was the one in December?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You pretty much hit the nail on the head right there, Attitude Fans who believe everybody in the Attitude Era > > > Today regardless of talent. Some people are just unwilling to give any present star their due, but 10 years from now we'll be hearing people on here bitching about how they miss Punk's 400 day reign when they don't like the guy who is currently champion.

Superstar of the year tournament, SLAMMY AWARDS 2009. 

TOWER OF DOOM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was for the Superstar of the Year tournament.

Ninja'ed I see. :hmm:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ah okay. Yeah, don't remember ever seeing it. Just gave it a very very quick skim, it wasn't quite 10 minutes for the entrances, but I believe the whole thing amounted to 10 minutes with most in entrances.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The 2009 Slammy Awards. What a fucking horrible show I remember. DENNIS MILLER :no:

Rewatched Orton/Jeff from Royal Rumble 2008. Still holds up as a great match. ***3/4

2008 was a great year for PPV's I see. Only one bad PPV that year (Survivor Series), and even that wasn't as horrible as some people affirm it is.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I can remember that crazy jump from Hardy, during the build-up for the RR match with Randy. That was a Holy Sh*t Moment


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Jericho from Survivor Series 2008 :mark:

Sooooo, that Swagger vs Kaval match from 11/4/10 Superstars was pretty great. Wasn't crazy about the match ending by the ankle lock with no prior ankle work, but putting aside one aspect such as that it was choice. ***3/4

Nearing the end here. Debating what I want to tackle next: RAW, Smackdown, or NXT from 2010 - or Superstars from 2011. Decisions decisions.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WATCH SOME NITRO

nitro love


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I did last night. 1997 style. Back onto finishing up my 2010 Superstars project atm. Only 7 full episodes left. I can probably get it done tonight. YES.

Kaval vs Drew McIntyre as the upcoming main event on this edition? YES x2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Its a shame superstars is shit lately. I mean Khali vs Epico/Primo? Ugh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I watched it earlier. I wanted to die one minute in. It's horrible.

Oh, but this isn't....






*****

Not b/c 3 of the dames are hot. Not b/c it's a tolerable match. It's thanks to...well, watch and you'll find out.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CM PUNK


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

COMMENTARY PUNK

lol @ the random Punk chant during the match too. #BITW


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I wish Punk did commentary more often. His work on NXT was great too.

Also what is Scott Stanford doing now? I thought he was okay.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

When Punk retires (which according to him won't be too long), I would be more than happy for him to replace Lawler as commentator. Hell, he can replace Cole too. I'd happily listen to CM Punk commentate Raw on his own every week.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> When Punk retires (which according to him won't be too long), I would be more than happy for him to replace Lawler as commentator. Hell, he can replace Cole too. I'd happily listen to CM Punk commentate Raw on his own every week.


This.

Speaking of Punk, what's your Top 5 MITB matches?

Mine would be:
1 - WM 23
2 - WM 24
3 - WM 21
4 - SD 2011
5 - WM 22


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

21
24
SD11
22
23


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

My favourite used to be the first one at WM21, but I think WM24 surpassed that. It had some great spots.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

MITB Matches:

1. 21
2. 24
3. 23

The rest i can give or take


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton's best match with inferior worker has to be his matches with Cena. Even though Cena is a great worker, I'd easily consider Orton above him. Also he's had several good matches with Edge. Vengeance 04, the Raw rematch weeks after, Raw 13/12/2004 and the one after Backlash 07.

And I consider Edge a superior worker to Punk. COME AT ME!

Top 5 MITB:
1. 21
2. 23
3. 24
4. Raw 2011
5. 22


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I consider Edge and Punk equals when it comes to in-ring work. Don't ask me why, I just think that as far as in-ring skills go one's not superior to the other, IMO they're in the same level. Both have a very good collection of matches.

Rewatched another two other underrated PPV's, Backlash and Unforgiven 2008:
Backlash:
MVP/Matt - ***1/4
Kane/Chavo - **1/2
Show/Khali - ** (Nowhere near as horrible as expected)
HBK/Batista - ***3/4
Divas Match - **1/4
Taker/Edge - ***3/4
Fatal 4-Way - ***3/4

Unforgiven:
ECW Scramble - ***1/2
Legacy/Cryme Tyme - **1/4
HBK/Jericho - ****1/4
SD Scramble - ****
Michelle/Maryse - **1/4
Raw Scramble - **3/4

Two awesome PPV's, I'll say.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I was going to rep you ATF, but-but...I need to spread some around. :hayden


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best MITB Ladder Matches:

1. WM 21
2. WM 24
3. I dunno, maybe SD from... 2010? I forget when the really good SD one happened. Seen it on other lists so this might be it.

WM 22 is one of my least favourites of the bunch. I think the Raw one from 2012 finally beat it out as the worst though .

Just posted RR 2011 thoughts on my blog. Just one more to go 2morrow! Well, and then 2013 on Monday probably . And a RR video next Sunday (pushed it back a week because being ill meant I didn't have time to get things done). Then I'll probably try and make an early start on WM. By like 2 months .


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Did I mention how much I love the Royal Rumble's "By The Numbers" promo video? My god. Get's me pumped EVERYTIME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punter said:


> Did I mention how much I love the Royal Rumble's "By The Numbers" promo video? My god. Get's me pumped EVERYTIME.


I too love it. Currently making my own parody version of it for my view next week .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill always remember one of the Bushwackers getting eliminated, think it was the fastest up to that point (forget which Rumble though lol).


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

What was your guys's rating for the Dolph/Edge match for the WHC from the Royal Rumble 2011? I recall it being a VERY good match and everyone marking the fuck out that Edge used the Killswitch to win. Thought that Christian for sure would've come back that night and won the Rumble. Because at that point, there was no other match that stood out and be good enough to main-event Mania for the World Title except Edge/Christian.

Fucking Del Rio :no:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MITB rankings:

1. WM 24
2. WM 21
3. SD '11
4. SD '10
5. WM 25
6. WM 23
7. WM 22
8. Raw '10
9. SD '12
10. Raw '11
11. WM 26
12. Every other match ever
13. Raw '12

Watched the first disc of the HIAC DVD last night. Those two HIACs on Raw that weren't really matches are so damn entertaining.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Raw '12 MITB isn't that bad I remember. It's much much better than Sheamus/ADR from that PPV.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Raw '12 MITB isn't that bad I remember. It's much much better than Sheamus/ADR from that PPV.


And infinitely better than Bryan/Punk.

I think the hate comes from the fact that Cena won it. I think it was rather entertaining with five capable workers and some cool spots like the ending when everyone was on top of the ladder, Big Show getting crushed under a bunch of ladders and then bringing out his own giant gold ladder. Despite winning it, Cena did fuck all, though. He never took any real bumps and was always on ground level or went down from a ladder the easy way.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Sheamus/ADR was the Cena/Orton of 2012. Without any progression of a feud and gimmick matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> And infinitely better than Bryan/Punk.
> 
> I think the hate comes from the fact that Cena won it. I think it was rather entertaining with five capable workers and some cool spots like the ending when everyone was on top of the ladder, Big Show getting crushed under a bunch of ladders and then bringing out his own giant gold ladder. Despite winning it, Cena did fuck all, though. He never took any real bumps and was always on ground level or went down from a ladder the easy way.


Meh, already seen Big Show with the big ladder and being covered in ladders in the SD '10 one which was 10x better. I didn't care that Cena won it, I just thought it was ridiculously boring. 

Would certainly put Punk/Bryan above it and would probably put Del Rio/Sheamus ahead of it too.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

A yes I remember going into the MITB '12 PPV expecting the RAW MITB match to be shitty. But it exceeded my expectations and managed to be very entertaining match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best part of MITB '12 was Ziggler getting thrown onto that computer chair, dying, coming back to life and then winning.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally got around to watching Del Rio vs Big Show LMS now and although it kind of misses the atmosphere (just something about Smackdown matches nowadays that have that dead feeling to me) it was a very good match. Del Rio is so much better as a face, all the talk of a face turn actually made sense around here. Glad he's changed his attire from that black and gold to the Mexican flag, though. Still had that heelish feel to him with the attire he wears here.

★★★.

Since it's the Royal Rumble tomorrow, don't know which one to pick for watching. Already went through the 2006 one in my journey so I have to pick something else. My choices are between 1992, 2004, 2008 and 2009.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Go through the 2008 one. I remember that show being great top to bottom.

Fitting too, because Cena is going to win this year as well 8*D


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Have you watched the '07 one, C2D? It owns.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

2004 is very good. I found the 2009 Rumble match pretty average, but the rest of the show was very good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

'04 is great but I really like the '09 one too. Lots of good dynamics to it and tons of false eliminations.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If it's full Rumble shows, go with 92 or 09. For just RR matches... 92 or 09 as well from your list of options .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2009 is pretty good. That's coming from the 2008 effect I guess, but the 09 undercard was very good. Edge/Jeff was easily ***3/4 material.

Heard some peeps on the net saying SummerSlam 2011 was the GOAT SSlam since 02. I agree actually, though 08 was great as well.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Heard some peeps on the net saying SummerSlam 2011 was the GOAT SSlam since 02. I agree actually, though 08 was great as well.


I like SummerSlam 2008, with Taker/Edge obviously being very good, but the two title matches are pretty average. HHH/Khali is just poor. Punk/JBL is solid but nothing special. It really felt like the focus was on Taker/Edge and Batista/Cena and the title matches were just thrown together, which is pretty disappointing considering SummerSlam is supposed to be the #2 PPV.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oh my gawd, DA ROYAL RUMBLE'S TOMORROW! :mark:

Always love the PPV for normally just the Rumble match, but this year there's something even better in Punk vs. Rock for the WWE Title. Not to mention I'm also looking forward to seeing Road Scholars facing Team Hell No, even though the match has happened a few times in the past few months. Mainly I'm looking forward to it this time around, as I believe this time they'll finally give Sandow and Rhodes the belts. I'm also even somewhat looking forward to the World Title match, though not for the match itself, but mainly for the possible Ziggler cash-in, which I see happening since it hasn't been teased in a while I think. 

On the Punk/Rock match, I'm expecting it to be one of the best matches for both men, and possibly a classic. It'll be Punk's biggest match of his career so I'm sure he's gonna put 110% into it, and it's gonna be Rock's big title win, so it's the same on his side. These two seem to work really really well together, and I hope they put together the match I know they can tomorrow night.

The Rumble match is going to be oodles of fun as they have some good starpower in the match, plus some interesting combinations that could come about. Any combination of Ryback, Cena, Sheamus, and Orton looks really good, and I could see them being the final four... though WWE does normally not put the biggest stars in the match all in the finale normally. I'm thinking a Ryback/Cena finish with Cena getting the win. I see Sheamus eliminating Orton, and either this causes Orton to eliminate Sheamus, or cost him his match at EC and turn heel. I'm actually kinda interested in seeing Ryback/Sheamus. Both men seem to be in line to be the next top face after Cena, so it'd be interesting to see how their interaction goes. 

Plus there's also the possibility of some surprise entrants. If Punk/Rock goes on before the rumble, one of them could end up being in the match. There's also the possibility of Taker and/or Lesnar, which is exciting, though Taker could've been a surprise entrant last year and he wasn't, so I have my doubts on him being there. Plus now apparently Carlito and Benjamin are going to be in the Rumble, and they're some damn fine workers, so they could bring some interesting moments into the match. Not to mention guys like Bryan and Ziggler, whom could end up being the MVP of the match, especially Ziggler since he'll be in the start of the match.

Only a little over 26 hours away!



> Heard some peeps on the net saying SummerSlam 2011 was the GOAT SSlam since 02. I agree actually, though 08 was great as well.


08 did have one of the best cell matches of all time (number 3), a classic at that in Taker/Edge, as well as an awesome Batista/Cena match. That being said, the HHH/Khali match was poor (which isn't surprising for a Khali match), Punk/JBL was underwhelming, and honestly I don't remember much otherwise. The combination of Punk/Cena and Orton/Christian at Summerslam 2011 might beat the combination of Taker/Edge and Cena/Batista from the 2008 show, but I'd put Taker/Edge easily above that Punk/Cena and Orton/Christian match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 05 & 03 > 11.



Punter said:


> Go through the 2008 one. I remember that show being great top to bottom.
> 
> Fitting too, because Cena is going to win this year as well 8*D


I've been thinking about watching that one since it's been a long while from the last time I saw it.



Brye said:


> Have you watched the '07 one, C2D? It owns.


Yep, although it was 2 years ago shortly after RR 11 when I was going through a Rumble-crazed period and just went through random matches on youtube. Been saving a more proper watch for when I'm done with 06 and reach 07.

Also worth mentioning that it's my favorite after 2004 and above 2001.



Big Z said:


> If it's full Rumble shows, go with 92 or 09. For just RR matches... 92 or 09 as well from your list of options .


Nah, just the Rumble match. I've seen 09 a long time ago but 92 is the only critically acclaimed match from the Rumbles I haven never seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best SS since 02? Hmmm...

SS 03

Taker/A-Train solid match
4 way US title match was fun
Angle/Lesnar ***** MOTY for WWE
Chamber is fun

SS 04

HHH/Eugene is good for HHH's heel schtick
JBL/Undertaker is a good match
Orton/Benoit is a great match

SS 05

Mysterio/Eddie is ok
Undertaker/Orton is awesome
Hogan/HBK is hilarious

SS 06

Flair/Foley is great

SS 07

Kane/Finlay is decent

SS 08

Batista/Cena is good
Undertaker/Edge is great

SS 09

Punk/Hardy is good

SS '10

Kane/Mysterio is solid
Need to re-watch the main event which gets tons of praise

SS '11

Henry/Sheamus is fun
Barrett/Bryan is good (Barrett's best match ever by quite a large margin)
Orton/Christian is great
Punk/Cena is great

SS '12

Bryan/Kane is fun
Lesnar/HHH is awesome

So based on that... I'd go with '11 lol. 03 has the ***** and some fun ones though placing it second probably. Some pretty fucking TERRIBLE SS events in there though. I wish WWE would start treating it (and Survivor Series) like ACTUAL "Big Four" events again.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Bo Dallas is in the RR match now. 

This'll be the first time I've seen the Rumble live for years. My favourite PPV of the year it's gonna be a doozy. Can't see why either Rock or Punk would be in the match though. Has there ever been a Rumble match featuring guys in the world title match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bo Dallas? Fuck. He's a creepy looking bastard. And shit too. He actually makes Edge's spear LOOK GOOD too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

From what I can remember from each Summerslam:

SS 03

Angle/Lesnar ****1/2
EC- **1/2

SS 04

HHH/Eugene- ***3/4
JBL/Undertaker- ***1/2
Orton/Benoit- ****1/4

SS 05

Mysterio/Eddie- ***1/4
Undertaker/Orton- ****
Hogan/HBK- ***1/2

SS 06

Edge/Cena- ***

SS 07

HHH/King Booker- **1/2
Cena/Orton- ****

SS 08

HHH/Khali- 1/4*
Punk/JBL- **1/2
Batista/Cena- ****
Undertaker/Edge- ****3/4

SS 09

DX/Legacy- ***3/4
Punk/Hardy- ****1/2

SS '10

Team WWE vs. Nexus- ****

SS '11

Henry/Sheamus- ***
Barrett/Bryan- ****
Orton/Christian- ****1/4
Punk/Cena- ****1/4

SS '12

Bryan/Kane- ***1/4
Punk/Show/Cena- **1/2
Lesnar/HHH- ***

I suppose I'd put SS 2011 as the best since 2002. Two awesome title matches and an excellent Barrett/Bryan match. Not to mention Sheamus/Henry was good. Most of the events I can't remember a lot of the matches, which I suppose isn't a good sign for them to begin with.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Bo Dallas is in the RR match now.
> 
> This'll be the first time I've seen the Rumble live for years. My favourite PPV of the year it's gonna be a doozy. Can't see why either Rock or Punk would be in the match though. Has there ever been a Rumble match featuring guys in the world title match?


Dolph Ziggler last year after facing Punk for the WWE Title. Big Show last year after the World Title triple threat cage match with Bryan and Henry. Orton and Ziggler after their respective WWE/World Title matches in 2011. Kurt Angle in 2005 after he was in the WWE Title triple match with JBL and Big Show.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

I just watched Jericho/Hogan from SD and I was pleasantly surprised ★ ★ ★ 
I hadn't seen it in forever


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Dolph Ziggler last year after facing Punk for the WWE Title. Big Show last year after the World Title triple threat cage match with Bryan and Henry. Orton and Ziggler after their respective WWE/World Title matches in 2011. Kurt Angle in 2005 after he was in the WWE Title triple match with JBL and Big Show.


It's bullshit. Nowadays they enter whenever they want. At least in 2005, Angle stole Nunzio's number in that goofy backstage segment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backstage segments of RR '05 were so awesome. Eddie stealing Flair's rumble number and wallet. THAT JBL CELEBRATION. :lmao And the Angle/Nunzio one. Plus I believe there was the Christian/Cena rapoff too.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Just finished watching two matches from the Punk DVD

CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio at Over the Limit 2010 - **** (If Punk wins, Mysterio joins SES. If Rey wins, Punk's head is shaved)

I think I liked this more than most people did? I can't really remember the reactions to this match. But it had a good crowd, good storytelling, and the quality of the wrestling was very solid as well. Something I like about this DVD is that it shows video packages that highlight the feud before showing the match itself. I imagine many people criticized the moment where the referee stopped the match to look at Punk's wound on his head. This didn't exactly ruin the match for me, as it came after a big spot where Rey went flying headfirst into the barber chair. The blood on Punk's head added a little bit to the match... the way the rivalry was escalating, the violence made sense. After they looked at Punk, they left him alone for the rest of the match and there was still some blood coming out of his forehead. At one point he even licked it from his hand and smiled. I had a lot of fun with this match and of course it ended with Punk getting his head shaved.

Also:

CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy at Summerslam 2009 in a TLC Match for the World Heavyweight Title - ****1/2

Pretty good spots in this match. The superplex onto the ladder looked very painful and Jeff doing the swanton off of that huge ladder through the announce table came off very well. The post-match with Undertaker made it even better. Really good match from these two and easily the best of their rivalry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> This.
> 
> Speaking of Punk, what's your Top 5 MITB matches?
> 
> ...


1 ~ WM 21 _(****3/4)_
2 ~ WM 22 _(****)_
3 ~ MITB 2011 Smackdown _(****)_
4 ~ MITB 2010 RAW _(****)_
5 ~ MITB 2010 Smackdown _(****)_


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If there's one thing WWE has always been good at, it's the video packages before matches. Those can get me hyped for matches I had no interest in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best example: Triple H vs Randy Orton from WrestleMania 25. 

Then the match happens.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Top 5 Dolph Ziggler matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Chris Masters (Superstars 5/14/10)
vs Daniel Bryan (all 3 matches in 2010 - Bragging Rights, 10/25, & 10/29)
vs Rey Mysterio (Summerslam 2009)

matches vs Morrison (Hell in a Cell 2009) & vs Edge (Royal Rumble 2011) deserve some mentions. As does the bulk of his bouts against Sheamus too. Oh, and his 3 minute debut vs Batista on 12/1/08 OWNS for what it was. Oh, dang and vs Punk on RAW following Survivor Series 2011 is choice. 

DOLPH


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Top 5 Dolph Ziggler matches?


(****1/4)
1) vs. Bryan BR 2010
2) vs. Punk November Raw 2011
(****)
3) vs. Edge RR 2011

Those are the top 3 I'm sure of. After that it gets fuzzy for me. His match against Sheamus at NWO was great. He had a great TV match in 2011 I believe. His TV matches in 2010 against Bryan were great as well. Problem with Ziggler is he has such a plethora of good-great matches, a lot of them I've forgotten about as they've gotten lost in the shuffle.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

1. vs. Bryan at Bragging Rights 2010
2. vs. Edge at Royal Rumble 2011
3. vs. Bryan on RAW 10/22/2012
4. vs. Orton on RAW 8/29/2011
5. vs. Orton at Night Of Champions 2012

Honorable mentions:
vs. Punk (RAW 11/21/2011 and Royal Rumble 2012)
vs. Sheamus (No Way Out 2012)
vs. Jericho (Summerslam 2012)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'd agree with the Bryan match at Bragging Rights being his best. Don't think I've seen that Punk match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ziggler/Bryan - BR '10 - ****1/2
Ziggler/Punk - Nov Raw - ****1/4
Ziggler/Bryan - Raw '10 - ****
Ziggler/Sheamus - NWO '12 - ***3/4
Ziggler/Mysterio - SS '09 - ***3/4

He's got a bunch of stuff in the ***-***1/2 range, imo.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I like the match Ziggler had with Edge on Smackdown building to Bragging Rights 2010 more than the Royal Rumble 2011 match they had. I actually feel the latter is a bit overrated. The Smackdown match was actually a qualifying match for Team SD @ BR:







I'm also a fan of Ziggler/Mysterio from Night Of Champions 2009. Undoubtedly, Ziggler's best work are his matches with Bryan with Bragging Rights 2010 as his very best match (and Bryan's 2nd best) in the company.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Top 5 for Sheamus?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sheamus/Bryan - ER '12 - ****1/2
Sheamus/Morrison - TLC '10 - ****1/4
Sheamus/Big Show - HIAC '12 - ****
Sheamus/Ziggler - NWO '12 - ***3/4
Sheamus/Bryan - Raw July '12 - ***3/4

Didn't think that out too much so I might be missing something.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I've got to think about it, but I'm almost positive my top 5 would all be from 2012. Not too big on his character but Sheamus's ring work is superb and his 2012 is Wrestler Of The Year worthy...if it wasn't for CM Punk.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I need to rewatch the Sheamus/Punk match from Main Event. I remember really liking it but I don't think it'd beat out the Sheamus/Bryan street fight.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Top 5 for Sheamus?


(****1/4)
1) vs. Bryan ER 2012
2) vs. Morrison TLC 2010
(***3/4)
3) vs. Big Show HIAC 2012
4) vs. Ziggler NWO 2012
(***1/2)
5) vs. Punk The Main Event 2012 (First Episode)


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

1. vs. Bryan (2/3 Falls, Extreme Rules 2012)
2. vs. Jericho/Orton/Del Rio (Over The Limit 2012)
3. vs. Big Show (Hell In A Cell 2012)
4. vs. Ziggler (No Way Out 2012)
5. vs. Orton (Smackdown 5/18/2012)


Honorable mentions:
vs. Bryan (Street Fight, RAW 7/30/2012)
vs. Jomo (TLC 2010)
vs. Jericho (Smackdown 7/13/2012)


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

I'd put forward the HHH street fight as one of Sheamus' best matches too.

There's also the one vs Jericho from the SD before Wrestlemania 28 & any one of the big Barrett or Tensai fights in the past year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I need to see that street fight. I saw their WM match but never managed to catch that match, let alone anything from ER '10 other than Swagger/Orton and Punk/Mysterio.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Batista/Cena LMS from that show is very good main event. Worth checking out. Even with DUCT TAPE!

I liked the Jericho/Edge Cage match too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao I remember the duct tape promo.

Will give both of those a look in the near future. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I'd agree with the Bryan match at Bragging Rights being his best. Don't think I've seen that Punk match.


You got to see the GREAT match vs Masters from Superstars. It's one of my favorite sub 10 minute matches I've seen. Brilliant work between the two trying to lock on their signature submission.



Clique said:


> I like the match Ziggler had with Edge on Smackdown building to Bragging Rights 2010 more than the Royal Rumble 2011 match they had. I actually feel the latter is a bit overrated. The Smackdown match was actually a qualifying match for Team SD @ BR:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree. Orton matches from 2011 were fun, but nothing major. He's worked better vs other guys. Sheamus definitely for a multi-match series that always delivers.

(Y) @ plugging the Mysterio match from Night of Champions 2009 too. Love it. MOTN on that show.




Saint Dick said:


> Top 5 for Sheamus?


1) vs Daniel Bryan _(Extreme Rules 2012)_
2) vs John Morrison _(TLC 2010)_
3) vs Big Show (Hell in a Cell 2012)
4) vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell 2010)
5) vs Daniel Bryan (Monday Night RAW 7/30/12)

The man has GREAT chemistry with generally anyone he locks up with. Including someone like Wade Barrett who some think is essentially worthless. Countless good/great matches vs Dolph Ziggler, everything vs Big Show is great, worked nicely with Christian & Triple H, even the shorter matches vs Danielson were worth seeing, Sandow, Rhodes, PUNK, etc. Anything he got time for is worth seeing. Sheamus is a hell of a worker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best Summerslam since 2002 is Summerslam 2011 , which is the only show in 2011 that gives Money in the Bank a run for it's money (main event @ MITB is superior, but the rest of the card I'd give to Summerslam).

Top 5 Sheamus Matches

1. vs Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules 12)
2. vs John Morrison (TLC 10)
3. vs Big Show (HIAC 12)
4. vs DOLPH Ziggler (NWO 12)
5. vs Daniel Bryan (Raw 12)

Top 5 DOLPH matches

1. vs Daniel Bryan (BR 10)
2. vs CM Punk (RAW 11)
3. vs Daniel Bryan (RAW 10)
4. vs Sheamus (NWO 12)
5. vs Randy Orton (NOC 12)

DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN HAS EVERYBODY'S GREATEST MATCH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How is Orton matches vs Dolph getting more praise than matches with Mysterio or Masters?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd say that out of every current active worker, DOLPH has gotten the best out of Orton for sure. Whenever they go head to head I'm definitely interested. Looks like DOLPH will be looking to get that Rumble "show-stealing" moment tomorrow.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Masters match is fun as hell. (Y)

And just remembered, Sheamus/Henry (SS) is a really solid match too. Wouldn't make my top five but I really enjoyed it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dolph vs Orton matches fun, but nothing I'd say that would rank in his top 5. Sheamus certainly gets the most from Orton, imo. Bulk of their matches are the only things Orton has left that's good in his career unless he's working with Kane or Danielson.

Dolph vs Masters is pretty brilliant. I've kind of blown my load on the match tonight as far as pimping goes. I swear, it's _that_ good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Love Sheamus-Henry.. Just Henry in his prime making shit FUN. One of the matches that makes Summerslam 2011 rank in as my second greatest Summerslam ever and a top 3 show in the PG era for sure alongside the likes of Money in the Bank 2011 and Extreme Rules 2012.

UGH, I need to finish Wrestlemania IV. The show that never ends.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doesn't help knowing you have a 20 minute Piper's Pit with Brother Love and that GUY _(Morton Downey Jr.)_

I'll always take Summerslam 2003 over 2011 for a Summerslam that follow 2002. 2003 is :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I was never really big on SS '03 but I think it was the main event that did it. Looking back I liked the rest of the show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main event is far from anything special, but Goldberg smashing chumps is what makes it fun enough to watch. Too bad Trips was injured or else the ending wouldn't have stunk so much. Then again, it wasn't like their match come Unforgiven 2003 would be anything special.

Rest of the show is :mark: 

Great crowd for the event.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Looking at the card the Smackdown portion of the card reminded me why I loved Smackdown around that time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked 2003 as a whole. Fun ruthless aggression year on most aspects. Sure, Triple H stunk pardon a few matches, but meh. Rest was entertaining. It's underrated in terms of it's fun aspect. I dig it.

All of that Austin wackiness as co-GM of RAW. That alone is quality. Plus, I really liked Bischoff's role in WWE. It was a lot of fun whenever you saw either on TV at the time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved Bischoff as GM, especially the first few years. He was getting a tad stale around the time of that court case Vince had where he got fired in the end so I wasn't against that. But he was really entertaining. I'd say the best GM since they started doing GMs.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We had BROCK full time. That automatically makes 2003 better than any other year in WWE history, even if THE GAME was one of the worst workers in the company at that point. The Steiner/Nash/Goldberg feuds are probably the 3 worst of his career and they all happened during the exact same time period. Kind of fucked when you really stop the think about it.

WE GOT BROCK/KURT @ SUMMERSLAM 2003 :mark:


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

2011 was such a great pay-per-view year in retrospect:

Royal Rumble has Edge/Ziggler which was a MOTYC candidate. Royal Rumble match was good too. Booker and Diesal returning was fantastic (Y) 

Elimination Chamber had two of the best Elimination Chamber matches in history, and even the Miz/Lawler match was fun. Also, Trish and Christian returns :mark:

Extreme Rules was a fucking FANTASTIC show. Cena/Miz/Morrison Steel Cage, Orton/Punk LMS, Rhodes/Mysterio Falls Count Anywhere, and of course, Del Rio/Christian in a great ladder match. Also, Kharma debut! Underrated pay-per-view, and one of the best ever (Y)

Over The Limit, while overall was a pretty average show, featured a MOTYC in Orton/Christian which alone makes that pay-per-view worthwhile. 17 minutes of pure, FUCKING AWESOMENESS

Money In The Bank 2011 was of course one of the GOAT PPV's featuring the lead up of the greatest angles in wrestling history. Perfect pay-per-view top to bottom. Bryan winning that case in a fantastic MITB match, RAW MITB was pretty good too, Orton/Christian was solid, and of course, Cena/Punk was absolutely amazing.

SummerSlam 2011 featured a REALLY AWESOME opening tag match, Bryan/Barrett was EXCELLENT as was the Orton/Christian Street Fight, and Punk/Cena managed to conjure up a magnificent match up once again that featured a weak finish, but Del Rio walked out with the strap.

Night of Champions had a pretty good Del Rio/Cena match, and an awesome Triple H/Punk match. Mark Henry beating Orton after MONTHS of being booked as a monster heel was a great moment.

Survivor Series was in MSG. Nuff' said. No but seriously, I recall the Ziggler/Morrison match up being great, Team Barrett vs. Orton was solid with the right person going over, Rock/Cena was electrifying with the crowd going nuts, and Punk/Del Rio was a great match with a feel good moment for CM Punk regaining the title from Del Rio in MSG.

Overall, probably best PPV year in company history. In terms of match ups, we had GREAT ones that year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Shame that we got such a bad MANIA that year :lol . 2011 OWNED .

Bryan got Barrett's best match ever out of him at Summerslam 2011 as well. Ceases to amaze me how I forget about such an awesome match due to how good and memorable the rest of the card is. EVEN THOUGH WE HAD CEE LO GREEN INVOLVED :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series sucked too. Crowd ruled though. Rest I'll generally agree with you, Punter. Although I wouldn't dub Extreme Rules as one of the greatest ever. It was merely a really consistent card.

Elimination Chamber was pretty excellent though. King vs Miz, which ruled, and not one, but TWO amazing chamber matches. Wonderful. I <3 the event personally. The two undercard matches were fine for what they were too. Crowd ate up Del Rio/Kofi.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Drew Mac in the Elimination Chamber. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KILLING PEOPLE. MCINTYRE STYLE.

:mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That EC was pretty fucking great. It's honestly my favourite EC by five thousand miles and everything a match like that should be. Didn't feel like anybody was really worthless in it and Rey and Drew KILLED IT. I don't like the chamber gimmick at all but have little problem calling that an excellent match.

The Raw one was w/e. I barely remember it.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

DAT REY/EDGE ELIMINATION CHAMBER ENDING SEQUENCE :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Elimination Chamber might be my favorite match type. Produces some standout individual performances (McIntyre 2011, Mysterio 2009).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punter said:


> DAT REY/EDGE ELIMINATION CHAMBER ENDING SEQUENCE :mark:


Awesome. The Smackdown chamber that year was excellent too and featured a dope HHH/Taker finishing stretch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> That EC was pretty fucking great. It's honestly my favourite EC by five thousand miles and everything a match like that should be. Didn't feel like anybody was really worthless in it and Rey and Drew KILLED IT. I don't like the chamber gimmick at all but have little problem calling that an excellent match.
> 
> The Raw one was w/e. I barely remember it.


what about when Ron Killings lasted one minute exactly? I can't forget that. It was bliss.

Smackdown 2009 chamber was solid. That's about it. I wasn't crazy about it. Taker jobbing to H in the end only soured my reaction on the match. Oh, man I was so pissed live, haha.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My favorite chambers are Raw '05, Raw '09 and SD '11.

The Edge/Mysterio sequence from Raw '09 is just as epic.

Fuck, I love Raw '08's too. UMAGA.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow, R-Truth is so forgettable that I don't even remember things I enjoy happening with him involved.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Survivor Series sucked too. Crowd ruled though. Rest I'll generally agree with you, Punter. Although I wouldn't dub Extreme Rules as one of the greatest ever. It was merely a really consistent card.
> 
> Elimination Chamber was pretty excellent though. King vs Miz, which ruled, and not one, but TWO amazing chamber matches. Wonderful. I <3 the event personally. The two undercard matches were fine for what they were too. Crowd ate up Del Rio/Kofi.


Survivor Series was great only because I had low hopes going in. Miz/Truth were booked HORRIBLE going into that match. But the atmosphere for the Rock alone that night made up for an average match. Ziggler/Morrison had an excellent title match only subdued by the annoying "We want Ryder" chants. Punk/Del Rio was a great 7.5-8/10 title match with a great feel good moment. I love Survivor Series. JR also said that the 2011 Survivor Series is his second favourite of ALL TIME behind 2002. 

And how dare you bash Extreme Rules 2011 :lol
That was an EXCELLENT pay-per-view, one that I can watch over and over and over without getting tired of it. If that isn't a mark of one of the best PPV's ever, I don't know what is. There are few PPV's that are PERFECT top to bottom, and this is one of them. All the matches were QUALITY. Kharma debuted, Christian won the title, and Bin Laden died. Good night and one of the GOAT PPV's of all time. Rewatch it man! I'm sure you'll rethink it the second time around 

I do agree with you that Elimination Chamber 2011 was fucking fantastic. I remember going in that I hated how predictable that pay-per-view was, and despite it being so, there were still some AMAZING matches. That SmackDown Chamber match is the best of all time IMO.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Awesome. The Smackdown chamber that year was excellent too and featured a dope HHH/Taker finishing stretch.


I think we're getting confused, because Edge/Mysterio also had a 10 minute finishing sequence in the 2011 Chamber match :lol

Regardless, both were excellent (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wow, R-Truth is so forgettable that I don't even remember things I enjoy happening with him involved.


b/c his existence is ASS.



Punter said:


> Survivor Series was great only because I had low hopes going in. Miz/Truth were booked HORRIBLE going into that match. But the atmosphere for the Rock alone that night made up for an average match. Ziggler/Morrison had an excellent title match only subdued by the annoying "We want Ryder" chants. Punk/Del Rio was a great 7.5-8/10 title match with a great feel good moment. I love Survivor Series. JR also said that the 2011 Survivor Series is his second favourite of ALL TIME behind 2002.
> 
> And how dare you bash Extreme Rules 2011 :lol
> That was an EXCELLENT pay-per-view, one that I can watch over and over and over without getting tired of it. If that isn't a mark of one of the best PPV's ever, I don't know what is. There are few PPV's that are PERFECT top to bottom, and this is one of them. All the matches were QUALITY. Kharma debuted, Christian won the title, and Bin Laden died. Good night and one of the GOAT PPV's of all time
> ...


I generally dig Survivor Series too, but I wasn't feeling that event. Ziggler/Morrison, Elimination tag, & Punk vs Del Rio were around *** matches. That's about it. Hated the other 3 matches. Rock did two moves. Boo. Nothing to that match at all.

Well that's why I called ER 2011 a really consistent PPV, b/c most matches were quite good.  I didn't fall in love with it like you did, but I did enjoy it. Only matches that sucked to me were the obvious ones involving Cole & Divas. Rest were all pretty good and an acceptable feud advancer tag team match. Rhodes vs Mysterio stole the show for me. It was my favorite match from the entire event. Not counting KHARMA killing someone I loathed in McTaker.

Yep same here. Predictable didn't mean squat when it was said and done. It blew so many of us away thanks to the quality. I bought that show a few months ago for 5 bucks. Was the biggest surprise ever :lol OWNS


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love Survivor Series 2011 as well, but FUCK THAT MAIN EVENT. I might be the biggest ever supporter of Big Show/Henry III from that PPV , fuck I love that match. Probably the world's biggest fan of Punk-Del Rio as well. HOWARD FINKEL AND DAT BIG TIME CM PUNK POP.

Was never the biggest ROCK fan in the world but his return was pretty huge nonetheless. Could have picked FAR better opponents than TRUTH AND FUCKING MIZ though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It felt like such a lazy event for me. Don't know. Wasn't crazy about anything except for a Ryder pop and Punk's big championship win. Oh, and Cody Rhodes being hugely over b/c I'll be a big time Cody Rhodes supporter always.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punter said:


> I think we're getting confused, because Edge/Mysterio also had a 10 minute finishing sequence in the 2011 Chamber match :lol
> 
> Regardless, both were excellent (Y)


It's possible that I'm getting confused but I thought they were the final two in the '09 chamber as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We're always talking about what we feel are the BEST matches and the BEST workers , but who would everybody consider to be their FAVORITE matches and FAVORITE performers ever ?

Whenever I think FAVORITE I always think of Mark Henry's run in 2011 for some reason. vs Big Show @ MITB/VEN/SS/TLC , vs Bryan @ SD/SD Cage, vs Bryan/Show @ RR, vs Orton @ NOC/HIAC, vs Christian @ SD, vs Sheamus @ SS ................. I fucking adore ALL of those matches. His promo work around the Night of Champions/Hell in a Cell period in 2011 was some of the greatest character work I've ever seen PERIOD, and that interview he did with JR after he won the belt felt HUGE. 

I need to do a top 25 favorite performers of all time list. FO REALZ. The obvious ones would be on there like Trips, Punk, BROCK, Savage, Flair, Bret, and the like.... But I'd also have to include guys like MARK HENRY and SCOTT STEINER. FUCK. That list is being made NOW, since I don't need any particular formula or criteria to rank them, it's 100 percent subjective


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Henry had one of the most incredible runs I've ever seen in my life when it was all said an done. PERFECT monster heel booking. I was shocked when he beat Orton clean TWICE at both NOC and Hell In A Cell. His feud vs. Big Show was exactly how a Big Man vs. Big Man feud should've been. One of the highlights of 2011 WAS Mark Henry. It's such a shame, because had Henry not have gotten injured, Henry vs. Sheamus for the title would've been a TREMENDOUS match up at WrestleMania.

I just watched Ryback/Cena/Punk for Survivor Series for the first time. Pretty good match. Ryback had some great spots fit for a guy his size. All three played their role tremendously. But Paul Heyman was the star of that match. DEM FACIAL EXPRESSIONS. ★★★¼


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bryan vs Sheamus vs Henry triple threat.

BOOM. :bryan


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As a guy who liked Mark Henry prior to 2011's heel run, it was certainly vindication to see him rule the scene for a good while. Injury in late 2011 leading into 2012 really hurt him though. He wasn't used NEARLY to the level he should have been except for the great match vs Punker on RAW following WrestleMania. If he returns come tomorrow then oh man. :mark:

#onemorerunplease


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The triple threat from Royal Rumble wasn't anything special, sadly. **


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

What did everyone think of Ryback/Punk/Cena?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked it on a first watch. Got the show downloaded still so I'll post my thoughts hopefully by this week on the match _(and show)_ again.

Highlight for me was The Shield's appearance, of course.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I still need to see the Bryan/Henry matches. What are the dates?

Might go through Henry's 2011 run this week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

11/4
11/11
11/29


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm going off of memory so I could be wrong, but methinks the Danielson/Henrys were 11/4/11, 11/11/11 (HAH), 11/29/11 (Cage match), and a lumerjack in January 2012 where they're both heel. MIGHT be 1/20/12.

EDIT - ^^^YUS! I was right.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YEAH1993 you were.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Let me guess, the servers will make this a double post...


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just heard Del Rio and the Big Show are having another LMS tonight. Why? I mean, I really liked the first one (***3/4), and wonder why are they doing it again. This one has the **** potential, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't know either, but fuck it. This one has a lot of potential. Hell, every match on the card has potential.

Top 5 Sheamus matches:
1 - vs D-Bry ER 2012
2 - vs Showster HIAC 2012
3 - vs JoMo TLC 2010
4 - vs Y2J Zackdown
5 - vs Orton HIAC 2010
HM: Street Fight vs D-Bry and NWO '12 vs Ziggler

Top 5 Ziggler matches:
1 - vs D-Bry BR 2010
2 - vs Edge RR 2011
3 - vs Punk Raw 2011
4 - vs D-Bry Raw 2010
5 - vs Rey SSlam 2009
HM: NWO '12 vs Sheamus and NOC '12 vs Orton

Top 7 PG Era matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Just heard Del Rio and the Big Show are having another LMS tonight. Why? I mean, I really liked the first one (***3/4), and wonder why are they doing it again. This one has the **** potential, though.


Shouldn't have happened on Smackdown in the first place. That's contract disputes for ya.

Top 7 PG era matches?

I know my two favorites off the top of my head: CM Punk vs John Cena from MITB 2011 & Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels from No Mercy 2008.

*****.

On that 5 star note then Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels from WrestleMania 25 needs to be in there. Christian vs Jack Swagger from 2/21/09 will probably be the 4th too. Others I'd have to take a quick second and think about. Oh, Brock vs Cena from Extreme Rules 2012. duh. So two more? Yeah, give me a bit and I'll come back to it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mine would be:

(*****)
1 - Taker/HBK - WM 25
2 - Taker/HHH - WM 28
3 - Cena/Punk - MITB 2011
4 - Taker/HBK - WM 26
5 - Lesnar/Cena - ER 2012
(****3/4)
6 - Rey/Jericho - Bash 2009
7 - Jericho/HBK - NM 2008

HM to Taker/HHH WM 27, Punk/Bryan OTL 2012 and Punk/Jeff SSlam 2009.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Neither Undertaker vs Triple H match would come close to the list for me. Especially the WM 27 match. Never liked it.

Rey vs Jericho was the first one to jump out at me as the possible candidate for #7. It's brilliant. Might be another great match lingering about...Orton vs Christian from Over The Limit. Damn. That's brilliant too. Christian OWNS.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

There's a detail in the HBK/Y2J Ladder Match that was too staged, I think it was HBK's elbow drop on Jericho, who had to cover himself with the ladder in order to make the spot work. It really cooled me off.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I seldom let one spot ruin a match for me. Especially one like that where I hold it in such high regard.


----------



## Brogue_Kick (Sep 11, 2011)

Just watched Sheamus vs Michael McGillicutty in WWE Saturday Night Slam from a few days ago.

Hennig is so intense and so old school, I like that. It was said that Triple H like McGillicutty, in the future he could be a great US/IC Champion


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Needs a personality or character first. 

Seems to be forming a potential lasting team with Bo Dallas on NXT. That might be his new in back onto a more full time roster spot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punter said:


> 2011 was such a great pay-per-view year in retrospect:
> 
> Royal Rumble has Edge/Ziggler which was a MOTYC candidate. Royal Rumble match was good too. Booker and Diesal returning was fantastic (Y)
> 
> ...


Time for CAL to show up and completely disagree with shit .

RR: Ziggler/Edge SUCKED. Undercard completely blew. RR match was great though.

EC: One chamber SUCKED. One was good. Nothing else is worth mentioning, which makes me sad because I'm a Lawler mark.

ER: Cage match sucked. Orton/Punk was decent. Mysterio/Rhodes was passable (liked the last 2 matches WAY more at WM, especially Rey/Rhodes which was like, second best MOTN). Ladder match was great at least, but the only thing really worth watching.

OTL: Christian/Orton. Great. That is all.

MITB: Yeah this event at least rules.

SS: I like this a lot too as I mentioned yesterday.

NOC: Henry/Orton was good. Rest can fuck off.

SS: Was anything particulary good from this show? I don't remember anything being special.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Neither Undertaker vs Triple H match would come close to the list for me. Especially the WM 27 match. Never liked it.
> 
> Rey vs Jericho was the first one to jump out at me as the possible candidate for #7. It's brilliant. Might be another great match lingering about...Orton vs Christian from Over The Limit. Damn. That's brilliant too. Christian OWNS.


If I were to include something out of the Orton/Christian feud, it'd be the SSlam 2011 match. DAMN at that one.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Watched the 01 Rumble yesterday.

E&C/Dudleyz - ***
Jerico/Benoit - *****
Chyna/Ivory - Dud
Angle/HHH - ***1/2
Rumble - ****1/2

Strong Rumble and GOAT ladder match. Everything barring Chyna/Ivory is really fun. 

Jericho/Benoit holds up really, really well. The only thing that bothered me slightly was Jericho's selling of the crossface.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 7 of PG Era:

1) Taker/HBK WM25
2) Punk/Bryan OTL 12
3) Taker/HBK WM26
4) Taker/Edge SS 08
5) Punk/Cena MITB 2011
6) Orton/Christian OTL
7) Shield vs Ryback, Kane, and Bryan

I'll adjust the list when I get home and can check. I'm fairly certain the first 4 are right though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive gotta watch the 'Taker/Orton fued soon, i did today watch one of their Smackdown matches before the Armageddon 2005 PPV, really good match, funny when Orton Sr bought a big truck out with a casket in it containing a model of 'Taker (excellent one at that mind).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 7 of PG era (why top 7?):

1. Taker/HBK WM 26 *****
2. Taker/HBK WM 25 *****
3. Punk/Bryan OTL '12 ****3/4
4. Punk/Cena MITB '11 ****3/4
5. Taker/HHH WM 28 ****3/4
6. Taker/HHH WM 27 ****3/4
7. Hmmmm I'm not too sure. Plenty of ****+ matches that I could throw here but off the top of my head non stick out as the better one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> If I were to include something out of the Orton/Christian feud, it'd be the SSlam 2011 match. DAMN at that one.


Doesn't even compare, imo. Not to mention the poor ending from their Summerslam match. The RKO is the worst move to hit on top of objects. It's always Orton who eats the brunt of the spot. Never the opponents.

WHY did Christian try to leap frog over a set of steps to hit a sunset flip on Orton? And WHY would he do the same spot again that he knew was his downfall in the first place? ahhhh. Over The Limit is where it is at.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Doesn't even compare, imo. Not to mention the poor ending from their Summerslam match. The RKO is the worst move to hit on top of objects. It's always Orton who eats the brunt of the spot. Never the opponents.
> 
> WHY did Christian try to leap frog over a set of steps to hit a sunset flip on Orton? And WHY would he do the same spot again that he knew was his downfall in the first place? ahhhh. Over The Limit is where it is at.


I totally agree with you here. That ending makes no sense! Christian literally jumps into thin air, nowhere near Orton and with steel steps between the two. 

I love the 'counter into RKO' finish as much as the next guy, but only when you don't see it coming. This one was obvious.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's ironic how I said a page back how I don't let certain spots sour me on a match and then boom. A match where it leaves me sour gets brought up. It's the finish though. And it's really bad. So, that speaks a bit more volumes to me than say a poor spot in a sea of an otherwise great match _(a la Jericho/Michaels from No Mercy 2008 considering that was the prior topic)_

I'll make the rounds to give Summerslam 2011 another chance. Danielson vs Wade needs to be seen. Been wanting to watch that. Rest will come with it of course. Whenever I feel like not watching WWE circa 2010 or a random WCW PPV like I currently have on now.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Top 7 of PG era (why top 7?):
> 
> 1. Taker/HBK WM 26 *****
> 2. Taker/HBK WM 25 *****
> ...


TAKER & PUNK

Could possibly be a match at Mania this year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The finish, in my view, came off with Christian's cockiness making him believe that he had Orton in his place, only to suffer dejá vu. Predictable finish, but I liked it.

Why top 7? It's for a change 

Forgot about Taker/Edge SSlam 2008 and Rybell No/Shield. ****+ material easily.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

1. CM Punk vs John Cena (MITB 2011)
2. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (WM XXV)
3. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (ER 12)
4. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (WM XXVI)
5. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (OTL 12)
6. Undertaker vs Triple H (WM XXVII)
7. CM Punk vs John Cena (SS 11)

WHY A TOP 7 !?!?!?!?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CENA/LESNAR. That would round out my top 7 .

Just posted my thoughts on the 2012 RR event. AND my predictions for the 2013 RR event. AND Weekly Wrestling Roundup Episode 66 video .

This is how I would rank the RR events on the CAL SCALE:

2006 Royal Rumble - 2
2012 Royal Rumble - 2
2010 Royal Rumble - 2.5
1999 Royal Rumble - 3.5
1993 Royal Rumble - 4
2011 Royal Rumble - 4.5
1997 Royal Rumble - 5
1988 Royal Rumble - 5.5
1989 Royal Rumble - 7
2003 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1994 Royal Rumble - 7.5
2004 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1990 Royal Rumble - 8
2008 Royal Rumble - 9
1998 Royal Rumble - 9.5
1991 Royal Rumble - 11.5
2007 Royal Rumble - 12
1996 Royal Rumble - 13
1992 Royal Rumble - 13.5
2009 Royal Rumble - 15
1995 Royal Rumble - 15.5
2005 Royal Rumble - 17
2000 Royal Rumble - 17
2002 Royal Rumble - 17.5
2001 Royal Rumble - 20


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I feel you underrated 07 a lil bit. DAT LMS MATCH.

Top 5 Last Man Standing matches, now that I'm in the subject:
1 - HHH/Jericho FL 00
2 - HHH/Flair SS 05
3 - Cena/Umaga RR 07
4 - Taker/Batista BL 07
5 - Cena/Edge BL 09
HM: ADR/Show. I really enjoyed that one as well, looking forward for the rematch tonight.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> CENA/LESNAR. That would round out my top 7 .
> 
> Just posted my thoughts on the 2012 RR event. AND my predictions for the 2013 RR event. AND Weekly Wrestling Roundup Episode 66 video .


Entertaining read as always  Agree on both counts, Punk winning for the reasons you said and Cena winning the Rumble (which i have said all along tbh).

The only reasoning i may see Rock winning is the evuntual (or possible) Cena/Rock II - The End of An Era...........again bollocks :argh:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR 07 LMS isn't that good . Finish completely kills it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't think so. As a matter of fact, the finish is one of the things I liked the most about it. 

Plenty of good LMS matches out there. HHH/Jericho and HHH/Flair ruled the world IMO. Fully Loaded 00 and Survivor Series 05 were pretty kick-ass PPV's themselves.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finish is just plain DUMB. Pisses me off so much. Oh look, I have a METAL SPANNER. I'll use it to break the ropes apart so you can use a smaller bit of metal from the ring post. Oh and now the ropes are broken so Cena can choke you out. Damn.

Whole thing was just a retarded set up to Cena using the ropes to choke Umaga out. Hate it so damn much.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well yeah it's obviously staged so the finish could happen, and it did look pretty forced, but from what I understood, Umaga was gonna use the Samoan Spike WITH that metal thing out of the rope. And even though that finisher SUCKED ASS, kayfabe-wise it was devastating. Taking a HUGE thumb from a near-500 pounder at high speed right through your throat would really make you famous, so the idea of having just that, but with metal instead of a thumb... DAMN. At least that's my point of view.

Top 10 Cena matches?

These would be mine:
1 - vs CM Punk MITB
2 - vs HBK Raw 07
3 - vs Lesnar ER
4 - vs HBK WM 23
5 - vs Edge TLC
6 - Raw Elimination Chamber 2009
7 - vs Umaga LMS
8 - vs JBL I Quit
9 - vs Punk NOC
10 - vs Edge vs HBK vs Orton

To be fair, for a guy that "can't wrestle", Cena does have quite a collection of good matches.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Time for CAL to show up and completely disagree with shit .


Why are you doing this to me CAL? 










Just replace "Lisa" with CAL in your mind


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd pay money to have him re-do the line with my name :lmao.

@ATF... why didn't he just use the METAL SPANNER for a Samoan Spike instead of taking the ropes apart?  My own point with hating the finish is that they used A METAL OBJECT to gain another metal object, for no other reason than to set up the finish lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 LMS:

1) Cena/Umaga RR 07
2) Jericho/HHH FL 00
3) Edge/Cena BL 09
4) Taker/Show CS 08
5) Taker/Batista BL 07


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Edge/Batista (Armageddon 2007)

****

Excellent triple threat, loved once again the Taker/Batista exchanges, also lol at Edge's tactics during the match, like ringing the bell when Taker had Batista in Hells Gate.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 7 PG:
1. Taker/HBK WM25 - ★★★★★
2. Lesnar/Cena ER12 - ★★★★½
3. Punk/Cena MITB11 - ★★★★½
4. Orton/Christian OTL11 - ★★★★½
5. Taker/HHH WM28 - ★★★★½
6. Sheamus/Bryan ER12 - ★★★★½
7. Taker/HBK WM26 - ★★★★½

Top 10 Cena:
1. vs Lesnar ER 12 - ★★★★½
2. vs Edge UNF 06 - ★★★★½
3. vs JBL JD 05 - ★★★★½
4. vs Punk MITB 11 - ★★★★½
5. vs Umaga RR 07 - ★★★★½
6. vs HBK RAW 07 - ★★★★½
7. vs Orton vs Edge vs HBK BL 07 - ★★★★½
8. vs Orton NWO 08 - ★★★★¼
9. vs HHH WM22 - ★★★★¼
10. vs Jericho SS 05 - ★★★★

Struggled to fill up the last couple of spots because I just didn't know what to pick.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Cal - Oh, now I see your point  I kinda agree with that part of the logic being dumb, but I still won't give the whole finish that much hate 

Taker/Batista/Edge was pretty good, but I was a bit dissapointed I'll admit. I was expecting a late MOTYC for 2007 with those three on it, but I only got "very good". HBK/Kennedy from the same show (Armageddon 07) was better iirc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top Five LMS :

1. Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 2000)










2. John Cena vs Umaga (Royal Rumble 2007)
3. Triple H vs Ric Flair (Survivor Series 2005)
4. Triple H vs Randy Orton (No Mercy 2007)
5. Edge vs Chris Benoit (Backlash 2005)

6. EVERYTHING ELSE
436743. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Royal Rumble 2004)

Despite having the shittiest LMS , TRIPS IS DA KING OF DA LMS MATCHES. Think of it like Taker in the Cell being the best performer despite having his worst match ever in the cell


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Taker/Batista/Edge was pretty good, but I was a bit dissapointed I'll admit. I was expecting a late MOTYC for 2007 with those three on it, but I only got "very good". HBK/Kennedy from the same show (Armageddon 07) was better iirc.


Yeah mate, for me the match wasnt long enough for me considering who was involved, i may have given it under 4 Stars but hey, Taker is in it :

Now watching Taker/Angle - NWO 2006 - Fuck yes, close enough to 5 stars for me, amazing, should have been at Mania but im just pleased we got it at least...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dat HHH vs HBK hate. I was enjoying their LMS match - but God that finish... *pukes*

Gotta agree with ya, KoK: HHH is the king of LMS. All his LMS matches (except vs HBK, which was still *** material IMO) were excellent.

Anyone remember the Taker vs Show LMS Match @ Cyber Sunday 08? I recall that being a pretty great match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that triple threat, one of the best in company history imo. Actually made sense to only have 2 guys fighting at a time, as most of the time it was Undertaker & Batista fighting each other to see who gets Edge, meanwhile Edge just hung about on the outside waiting for the best time to come in, really playing up on the whole "ultimate opportunist" gimmick he had. And never really did anything with outside of MITB cash ins and a couple of matches .

Didn't think too much to HBK/Kennedy matches except for the first HD Raw one I believe it was.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Top Five LMS :
> 
> 1. Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 2000)
> 
> ...


THE GAME

I adore LMS v Flair. Doesn't seem to get as much praise as their cage match but I think I like it more.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't know if I'd say HHH had the worst LMS match, or that he's the king of it either. Taker and Cena may give him a run for his money, as well as Edge. Will have to think about that. 

Need to re-watch Taker/Batista/Edge. Haven't seen it in a long time.

Edit: I think Cena/Del Rio may be the worst LMS match. Taker/Big Show is amazing, and I'm not that high on Flair/HHH. ***1/4-***1/2 for it. I may en have HBK/HHH above it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Now watching Taker/Angle - NWO 2006 - Fuck yes, close enough to 5 stars for me, amazing, should have been at Mania but im just pleased we got it at least...


Just like to add, i always go "whoa" at that bump Angle does when Taker throws him against the steel steps and then immediatly Angle smacks his face off the table debris.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 LMS matches:
1. Orton/HHH NM 07 - ★★★★½
2. Cena/Umaga RR 07 - ★★★★½
3. Jericho/HHH FL 00 - ★★★★½
4. HHH/Flair SVS 05 - ★★★★¼
5. Edge/Benoit BL 05 - ★★★★

Was also struggling about what to choose for the last spot. Need to watch Taker/Show and Jericho/Kane. Taker/Batista almost tied with Edge/Benoit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 LMS matches:

1. HHH/Jericho FL 00
2. Undertaker/Batisa BL 07
3. HHH/Orton NM 07
4. Undertaker/Show CS 08
5. HHH/Orton Raw wheneveritwas

Would need to see the likes of Rock/Mankind, Edge/Benoit and a couple others again though. Shane/Show deserves a mention for being super fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Cyber Sunday 2008:*
Shelton/Truth (Pre-show): **
Rey/Kane: ***
Matt/Bourne: ***3/4
Cryme Tyme/JoMiz: **1/2
Santino/HTM: N/A
Taker/Show: ****
HHH/Jeff: ****
Jericho/Batista: ***1/2

Really good show, quite underrated. Two **** matches (HHH/Jeff being the better one IMO), the ECW and WHC Title matches were very good too, and all the rest was decent (Santino/HTM was an entertaining segment).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH/Jeff from Cyber Sunday is probably my least favorite of the series. *** for it. The Armageddon 07 match is great and NM 08 is fucking awesome and Jeff's best normal singles match, as well as HHH's best match since his HIAC with Batista.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Talking of HHH/Jeff at No Mercy, I always felt WWE pulled the trigger too early on Jeff's first WWE title win at Armageddon 08. The guy was probably the most over star in the company at that point, probably even bigger then Cena. It felt like he should've won the title at 'Mania and it would have been a huge moment and probably sky rocketed his career.

Having him win it at Armageddon was fine, but then he lost it a month later and went into a pretty average midcard feud with his brother, which killed his momentum. It might have been because of his unreliability, but still chance missed imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Armageddon 07 is my least favourite match on the series, but it was great as well. NM 08 was fucking awesome, but unfortunely overshadowed by a near ***** Ladder Match between Jericho & HBK. NM was the only PPV in 2008 that could give WM 24 a run for it's money IMO.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big fan of HHH/Jeff from Cyber Sunday. It played off the No Mercy match nicely and was similar in quality. Great match.

Speaking of HHH/Jeff, No Mercy '08 is right up there with Hunter's best non-gimmick matches ever. Against Michaels (Raw '03), Taker (Wrestlemania 27) and Rock (Backlash '00) are the competition. Cena (Night of Champions '08) and Benoit (No Mercy '00) deserve mentions.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

From Benoit/HHH matches, I prefer Vengeance 04 and Raw 14/3/05 to No Mercy 00. There's just something about Benoit before and after his neck injury. From everyone he worked with in 00 and 01 as well as 02-07, it varies. For instance, his matches with Jericho in 00 and 01 blow away anything they had together afterwards (two Raw matches aren't much though) but then with HHH, I think the stuff they did in 04 and 05 are far better than anything they had in 00 and 01 (TMPT/J&B tag excluded).

And the Taker match at WM27 was a NHB so it doesn't count.

Watching CS 08 match between Taker and Show right now. Thankfully myspace is useful for something as they have so many full matches up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

As much as I utterly despise Jeff Hardy, in terms of consistent matches he has been one of Hunter's best opponents throughout the years. If I were to rank Trips and his best opponents ever it would probably go something like this ;

1. FOLEY (every single PPV match these two had was AWESOME, and they had DAT MSG street fight on RAW and THE GAME'S first title win. Nobody comes close to getting more out of Hunter than Foley, no question)

2. Chris Benoit (quality, quality, quality. It seems as if these two have had more TV classics against each other than any other combination in history. Their No Mercy 2000 match is awesome, and I'm a huge fan of their Vengeance match. They were also involved in the two 04 Triple threats together, as well as my GOAT WWE/WWF tag match. THAT HAS TO COUNT FOR SOMETHING. Those RAW 05 matches were just something else)

3. THE ROCK (Yeah, these two put each other on the map. I'm a big fan of their Summerslam match despite what others may think about it, but some matches that don't get mentioned are their two awesome Fully Loaded matches, with one being 2/3 falls and the other being a strap match. They had a fantastic ironman match at JD 00 and an equally awesome match at Backlash 00 as well. Let's not forget about their Rebellion cage match either ; this may not be THE GAME's most consistent opponent, but probably his biggest rival ever outside of Foley).

4. Chris Jericho (I love their Mania match more than most people and thought it was a legit great match with some fantastic psychology behind it, but that's an argument for another day. The 2000 TV matches they had were fantastic, their JD 02 CELL match redefined what the cell would become in the future, and did I mention that they wrestled one of the greatest matches and WARS in WWF/WWE history @ Fully Loaded 2000 ?)

5. Jeff Hardy (Yeah I know, Jeff isn't exactly the greatest but for some reason when those two lock up something special happens. The No Mercy, Cyber Sunday, and Armageddon matches are all very special, and I credit Hunter alot for being able to give Jeff his best matches that don't involve CM Punk. I love their short TV matches in the early 00s also that made Trips look like a BEAST.)

The reason I don't have Taker here is because they've had like 20 matches and I like THREE. THREE. For some reason the only time they can have a great match is @ MANIA. Feuds like BATISTA, CENA, and STONE COLD don't get included because they've only had a handful of matches against one another in each feud. The HBK feud is too inconsistent for my liking while the Orton feud was complete shit bar a few gimmick matches.

THE GAME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JD Jericho/HHH re-defined what a HIAC match would become? Shit? 

Only worthwhile HHH/Jericho matches are LMS, and the Raw where Jericho "wins" the belt.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's a great match CAL , FU. 

TRIPS AND JERICHO GOT DAT CHEMISTRY. :jpl


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> 4. Chris Jericho (*I love their Mania match more than most people and thought it was a legit great match with some fantastic psychology behind it, but that's an argument for another day.* The 2000 TV matches they had were fantastic, their JD 02 CELL match redefined what the cell would become in the future, and did I mention that they wrestled one of the greatest matches and WARS in WWF/WWE history @ Fully Loaded 2000 ?)


I totally agree with you here - that match was very good, but was really hurt by Hogan/Rock earlier in the night which also led to a totally dead crowd. But seriously, if anyone watches that match again as a one off outside of the PPV it's really great. Perfect face vs heel w/ valet/manager match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I always thoguht that Hunter was better in the Three Way Matches or fatal Four Way Matches, dunno why


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

AITCH AITCH AITCH vs. BEN WAHH vs. AITCH BEE KAY is the GOAT Triple Threat. Dat flow. DAT CHEMISTRY :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He's the king of triple threats as well.

Wrestlemania XX
Backlash 2004
Backlash 2006
Wrestlemania XXIV
Armageddon 2008
Survivor Series 2009

BEHOLD THE KING. THE KING OF KINGS.

THERE IS ONLY ONE :jpl


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

The WrestleMania XXIV triple threat was awful. How dare you put that up there with the likes of HHH/HBK/Benoit


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Angle vs. Taker vs. Rock is a very underrated triple threat. Usually when people talk about 3 ways they mention only WM XX.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punter said:


> The WrestleMania XXIV triple threat was awful. How dare you put that up there with the likes of HHH/HBK/Benoit


No it wasn't. Just because it was the three "founders" of the PG Era (Cena, Orton, HHH), doesn't mean it was anything close to shit.

WM 20 Triple Threat is the GOAT one in WWE (and behind Daniels/Styles/Joe Unbreakable 05 as my favourite Triple Threat ever), but plenty of great ones out there, like the WM 20 rematch, Taker/Rock/Angle, Lesnar/Show/Angle, Cena/HHH/Edge, and Punk/Bryan/Kane.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that Vengeance triple threat. Used to have it at ***** and the GOAt triple threat, but on last watch I didn't like it as much as before . Still awesome though. ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NO NO NO NO NO... Don't get me wrong.

I have WM XXIV @ **** 1/2* and the WM XX match @ ******* and a top 10 WWF/WWE match ever at the same time. I was just listing off all of the triple threats that Hunter was in that I consider to be GREAT (great being **** 1/2+* IMO), and it just so happens that the HHH/HBK/Benoit match at Wrestlemania is in a whole other stratosphere than the other matches.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> No it wasn't. Just because it was the three "founders" of the PG Era (Cena, Orton, HHH), doesn't mean it was anything close to shit.
> 
> WM 20 Triple Threat is the GOAT one in WWE (and behind Daniels/Styles/Joe Unbreakable 05 as my favourite Triple Threat ever), but plenty of great ones out there, like the WM 20 rematch, Taker/Rock/Angle, Lesnar/Show/Angle, Cena/HHH/Edge, and Punk/Bryan/Kane.


You have Daniels/Joe/Styles over HHH/HBK/Benoit? Here's me thinking that match couldn't be any MORE overrated.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punter said:


> The WrestleMania XXIV triple threat was awful. How dare you put that up there with the likes of HHH/HBK/Benoit


What the fuck are you talking about? That match rules! ★★★★.

KOK, don't forget the Ironman match between Benoit and Trips. Probably their best singles match.

And just got done with CS 08 Show/Taker. GREAT, great match! I didn't know the result beforehand so on numerous occasions, I actually thought Big Show was going to win. ★★★★ for this one too. And I watched their NM match a few days ago but never gave it a rating here. Liked it but it wasn't as great as the LMS. ★★★¾ for that one.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

ATF said:


> No it wasn't. Just because it was the three "founders" of the PG Era (Cena, Orton, HHH), doesn't mean it was anything close to shit.
> 
> WM 20 Triple Threat is the GOAT one in WWE (and behind Daniels/Styles/Joe Unbreakable 05 as my favourite Triple Threat ever), but plenty of great ones out there, like the WM 20 rematch, Taker/Rock/Angle, Lesnar/Show/Angle, Cena/HHH/Edge, and Punk/Bryan/Kane.


I like how you automatically assume I hate it because it had the "three founders of the PG Era". It HAS to be that reason right? It can't be that I just DISLIKE the match? :lmao

I just found that entire match really flat, probably because I had HUGE expectations going in because all three of them are fantastic workers. Very basic match. Flat ending with the punt. Didn't like it. It could've been a GOAT triple threat based on potential alone, but it fell flat. That's how I would describe that match: *FLAT*

I have yet to give their Night Of Champions 2009 rematch a watch though. Is that one any good?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of underrated Triple Threats:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NO. That match is during Orton and Cena's reign of shitty matches over the WWE, with Trips being pretty bad in it as well. It's okay for the HHH-Cena segments, but Orton's heel control segments are just BAD.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Haven't posted here in some time and I see we're discussing triple threats. Angle/Taker/Rock is anything but underrated. It seems as if I'm the only one who prefers Benoit/HBK/HHH Backlash '04 over their Mania encounter and Orton/HHH/Cena kicks ass.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Angle/Taker/Rock is my favorite Thriple Threat Match after the one between Benoit/HBk/HHH


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> You have Daniels/Joe/Styles over HHH/HBK/Benoit? Here's me thinking that match couldn't be any MORE overrated.


It blew me away completely when I 1st watched it. Opinion could change on another watch though, but on regard the Unbreakable one is my personal favourite. HHH/HBK/Benoit is a fingernail close, though.



Punter said:


> I like how you automatically assume I hate it because it had the "three founders of the PG Era". It HAS to be that reason right? It can't be that I just DISLIKE the match? :lmao
> 
> I just found that entire match really flat, probably because I had HUGE expectations going in because all three of them are fantastic workers. Very basic match. Flat ending with the punt. Didn't like it. It could've been a GOAT triple threat based on potential alone, but it fell flat. That's how I would describe that match: *FLAT*
> 
> I have yet to give their Night Of Champions 2009 rematch a watch though. Is that one any good?


Well, there are many people out there that simply assume "CENA VS HHH VS ORTON! BAH! THOSE THREE SUCK! THIS MATCH FUCKING SUCKS" just because it is Cena vs Orton vs HHH. I assumed you were one of those, maybe I'm just way too used to that being the reasoning  I didn't like the flat dumb punt finish either, but I don't think the match itself is awful.

NOC 09 is a much better match IMO, yeah.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Well, there are many people out there that simply assume "CENA VS HHH VS ORTON! BAH! THOSE THREE SUCK! THIS MATCH FUCKING SUCKS" just because it is Cena vs Orton vs HHH. I assumed you were one of those, maybe I'm just way too used to that being the reasoning


That's the kind of thinking you need to leave at the "door" when you come into this thread. Consider this place a haven from the shitty posters and dumb arse reasoning (for the most part anyway ) as to why matches suck, wrestlers suck, shows suck etc.

And now I'm back as a WWE Mod, I'll be making sure this place doesn't go downhill any time soon!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't think you realize what tonight means. If Punk retains it's gonna be like the Patriots winning the Superbowl for me honestly. I'll probably get on here and EXPLODE at the Rock marks who will have their dreams broken if Rock loses.

If Rock wins the title like I believe he will, and Cena wins the Rumble.... I don't know anymore to be honest


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have MONEY down on Punk winning tonight. I just got that feeling that he's leaving with the belt. Not sure how, could be Brock, could be BRAD MADDOX, could be... fuck knows, Brock really is the best choice lol. But I just don't think Rock is leaving the RR with the title.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If Punk escapes with the title, I hope his bus crashes into the sea midway or he gets struck by lightning. 

Okay, not really, but dammit, ROCK BETTER WIN THIS MUTHAFUCKA!

The whole build-up calls for The Rock to win and it makes sense that way. Regardless of smarks' fantasy booking where the heel always gets the upper-hand on every turn and match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Not the appropriate thread but since it's being discussed, I never liked that TNA triple threat that the Old Meltzer graced with his prestigious 5 star rating.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If Brock turns up i will go FUCKIN' MENTAL (in a good way lol) :


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think there's gonna be SOME CURVEBALL thrown at us tonight. I don't know WHAT, but WWE usually isn't THAT predictable when it comes to Wrestlemania season. Spent some time looking at pre-rumble Wrestlemania card predictions from years past ; and it isn't even close :lol

EVERYBODY had money on these matchups the past few years ;

Wrestlemania XXVII : Cena vs Barrett/Punk
Wrestlemania XXVI : Triple H vs Shawn Michaels
Wrestlemania XXV : Cena vs Orton
Wrestlemania XXIV : Batista vs Orton

Seriously, went through about 634743724 different forums and threads and everybody predicted these matchups. Last year was INSANELY obvious since Cena-Rock was announced a year in advance.

A question I've been wondering for a while ; HAVE THEY EVEN HINTED AT ROCK-CENA II ? Why does everybody think the match is so obviously going to happen ? Is it just because that match is everybody's worst nightmare, or is there any indication that it will happen ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> A question I've been wondering for a while ; HAVE THEY EVEN HINTED AT ROCK-CENA II ? Why does everybody think the match is so obviously going to happen ? Is it just because that match is everybody's worst nightmare, or is there any indication that it will happen ?


Cena has made some comments directed at Rock on twitter (nothing more than small jokes, though) and I think there was one point where he said he would love to wrestle him again and win this time around.

And speaking of predictability, last year was that to a T. People expected HHH/Taker III the night after WM27 and that's what we got. Everyone talked about Jericho/Punk for the title for several months and despite Jeritroll and his shady tweets, that's what happened as well. Hope this year ends up becoming predictable too. Although I want Taker/Brock and not the stupid Punk/Taker and HHH/Brock II matches that have been rumored all year long.

Hope we just get Rock/Cena, Brock/Taker, Sheamus/Orton and Punk/Ryback. Trips can stay this one out or have a match with somebody below his status to rack up his WM record if he wants DAT CREDIBILITY back in full.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On triple threats, Benoit/HBK/HHH is the GOAT Triple Threat, but Taker/Rock/Angle Vengeance 02 is actually very close to the point there's an argument for it being the best.

And since it reminds me, while I'm not sure about HHH being the king of LMS, triple threats I'd say he generally provides the most quality, as KingofKing's list show. And on HHH's best opponents, I'd say Rock and Foley are easily the top 2, with Jeff Hardy and Benoit coming in after that. After that I'm not sure.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only reason I slightly want Punk to retain the title over Rock winning it is the volcanic eruption from this forum when the "GOD" of wrestling loses to some "indy midget no-drawing hack". Oh it'd be priceless. Of course, Rock's winning, and that's cool, but it'll be a lot more entertaining on here if he doesn't.

Top 10 Cena matches:

(****1/2)
1) vs. Punk MITB 11
2) vs. Umaga RR 07
3) vs. HBK Raw 07
(****1/4)
4) vs. Edge BL 09
5) vs. Edge vs. HBK vs. Orton BL 07
6) vs. Punk SS 11
7) vs. JBL JD 05
8) vs. Lesnar ER 12
(****)
9) vs. HBK WM23
10) w/HBK vs. Taker/Batista


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Those matches were REALLY obvious since we were getting Rock-Cena. They pretty much threw in the towel on anything being out of the ordinary when they announced that match. This year I feel is different than that due to a ton of the things Rock has said and that Punk has said through media. It's not that I don't WANT Rock-Cena and that I'm in denial, I just really don't feel that we're gonna get it  

Punk is either going to main event or take on The Streak, that is pretty much the only lock I have at the moment. Don't really see how anybody can come out and dispute that at this point either. Even if Rock wins tonight, I still don't think he walks into Mania with the belt TBH.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Every long heel run always leads to the big face victory. Heels are made to lose to faces , that's wrestling. If not Rock then who? Ryback after 3 failed attempts?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You know, had they kept Punk face, and kept him looking strong, as a fighting champion, defeating Cena clean in a series of matches, and then defeating Rock at RR, a 500-day title reign vs. 20-0 streak probably could've been a huge selling point. It could've been bigger than Rock/Cena II and Lesnar/HHH II (not Rock/Lesnar though). Problem with it now is unless Punk goes over Rock clean, Punk's become your standard cowardly heel who really doesn't have a shot against Taker unless exploiting some kind of weakening in Taker like back in 2010, and even then he still won't look that good. Even then, a 500-day title reign vs. 20-0 streak build should have some good build, and it would keep me interested, even though it won't be the selling point it could've been and will have as much impact as a standard Taker streak match.

But still, as a mark for both, I'd love to see them duke it out at Mania. I've said it recently and I'll say it again, if Taker/Punk work the match similar to how they worked the SD 2010 match that was TV MOTY, it could end up being a classic.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Holy fuck Cal, off topic, but the guy in your sig...looks like his triceps are going to explode in that picture.

Also, I remember saying way back in December that we were getting Miz/Cena at WrestleMania. Punk was just there to keep Cena busy until then.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

BANKSY said:


> Every long heel run always leads to the big face victory. Heels are made to lose to faces , that's wrestling. If not Rock then who? Ryback after 3 failed attempts?


Ryback would be the ideal choice at Mania. All of the matches have ended in controversy, but in a Wrestlemania match with Punk, with the Shield having a war of a match with three other guys and Lesnar being pre-occupied with Rock, Punk would be alone to face Ryback, Ryback would end the title reign and be put over huge for it and maybe even the top face of the company, which would be further cemented in a big match with Cena at Summerslam or Wrestlemania 30.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BANKSY said:


> If not Rock then who?


Someone on the active roster who would benefit in any way, shape or form from doing so?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed, thanks for the advice Cal 

Miz/Cena at WM 27 reference... oh God. Not the worst WM ME ever (Hogan/Yoko, Sid/Taker, Hogan/Sid and Bret/Yoko are far worse IMO), but good grief was it terrible. And their I Quit match at OTL wasn't any better either.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker is not working full-time again so thankfully, if Punk challenges the streak, the title wont be on the line. Because if it is, what's gonna happen? Taker wins and vacates it right after? Punk ends the streak? LOL. Pointless and not needed. Plus no one is gonna remember that. The Rock is exactly who Punk should lose the title to. He's already gone through everyone there is and Rock ending his reign of terror is the perfect payoff. And it also sparks some "memorability" to his shitty reign since its tail-end will be the start of Rock's feel good 10th title victory 10 and a half years since the last time he won it.

And don't give me that "put over a young guy" crap because Punk has beaten them all (unless you're looking for somebody from NXT or something - a face at that) and it will mean nothing. On par with my suggestion earlier, Ryback can get his return victory from Punk in a non-title match with Shield banned from interference. That can help him and then he can win the title after Mania. Perhaps from Cena at SummerSlam after Cena has a 5 month reign from WM29 until SS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Here is my final PRE RUMBLE WRASSLEMANIA' CARD PREDICTION ;

*WWE Championship*

The Rock (c) vs John Cena vs CM Punk

*The Streak*

The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar (W/HHH as Special Referee)

*World Heavyweight Championship*

Alberto Del Rio (c) vs Dolph Ziggler

The Shield vs Ryback/Sheamus/Randy Orton

Daniel Bryan vs Kane

That's basically all I can predict at this point, since most undercard feuds don't materialize until post Elimination Chamber. Final predictions for anybody else ?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The card above seems pretty spot on and I'd personally be quite happy if that was the case. I can stomach Rock and Cena together again if Punk is involved that's for sure.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Del Rio vs. Ziggler? That's weak, and I'm a big Ziggler fan. Have him featured in a huge match that will put him over, but I don't think he should go for the title at Mania quite yet. Doesn't seem the right time. 

Del Rio vs. Orton vs. Sheamus plz.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My WM29 pre-Rumble card  :

WWE Title (insert Gimmick Match):
CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena 

WHC Title:
Dolph Ziggler (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio

Grudge Match:
The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar

The Streak:
The Undertaker vs. huh, idk

6-Man Tag:
The Shield vs. Ryback, Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara

Dr. Shelby as guest ref:
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane

Grudge Match:
Sheamus vs. Randy Orton

Doesn't look too good, but oh well


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I think Ziggler is going to get a real good showing tonight in the Rumble. Expecting at least 30 mins for him tonight.

Or John Cena comes in at 2# and he isn't in there by #3. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There are so many fantasy cards that I got up which I would love to see happening. One I got in mind is this:

The Rock (c) vs John Cena (WWE Championship)
Winner: John Cena via heel turn.

Undertaker vs Sheamus (Streak)
Winner: Hudafukyafink?

Brock Lesnar vs Randy Orton
Winner: Doesn't matter, just give me this match!

Dolph Ziggler (c) vs Alberto Del Rio (World Heavyweight Championship)
Winner: Alberto Del Rio by Cross Armbreaker.

Triple H vs CM Punk
Winner: H... H... H

Daniel Bryan vs Kane
Winner: D-Bryan

The Shield vs Ryback (3-on-1 handicap match)
Winner: RYBACK

Rey Mysterio vs Sin Cara
Winner: Sin Cara


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Excited for tonight. I think the Rumble match has the potential to be highly entertaining. Lots of midcard folks in there I'm invested in and/or generally find fun to watch. Then there's the heavy hitters in Cena, Orton, Seamus, Ryback, Shield who hopefully provide some big moments for us. I really am feeling stupidly optimistic about this. Hopefully it delivers. 

Rock/Punk. Definite big time feel for this thing. The last time we had a match at this level was HHH/Lesnar. That delivered in spades, for me at least lol, so I'm hoping this will do the same. Interested to see how their styles mesh in an actual match. JR has talked about how Rock hasn't faced anybody who uses kicks and strikes as much as Punk before which is actually true when you think about it. It's new for him. I think they'll gel together nicely. 

I think Rock will win. I've always thought that he would and my mind hasn't changed. I have to hand it to WWE though, outright saying The Shield can't interfere and this whole Maddox thing do have me questioning myself just a little. My gut says Rock wins though so I'm sticking with that. We're going to get answers to a lot of RTWM questions tonight. Let the road...and the bitching...begin.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Indeed, thanks for the advice Cal
> 
> Miz/Cena at WM 27 reference... oh God. Not the worst WM ME ever (Hogan/Yoko, Sid/Taker, Hogan/Sid and Bret/Yoko are far worse IMO), but good grief was it terrible. And their I Quit match at OTL wasn't any better either.


True but they put on a great match on Raw the night after the Extreme Rules PPV. It's amusing too since they put on a great Raw match but had two stinkers on PPV.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

With his induction to the HOF... Any chance of a BACKLUND special appearance in the rumble tonight?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BACKLUND AND ZIGGLER to start it off. Would make me :mark: for sure lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ziggler tweeted he's entering first. I'm fully expecting :cena to be second.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

top5 Cody Rhodes matches?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Cena to come out number 2. Eliminate Dolph and smile. Eliminate more people and smile. Have a staredown with Orton which the crowd will no sell. Then Win the RR to set up the match everyone wants to see. Rock V Cena, a couple of times in a lifetime.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bryan D. said:


> top5 Cody Rhodes matches?


vs. Orton Street Fight, SD 11
vs. Mysterio, Mania 27
w/DiBiase vs. DX, Summerslam 09
w/DiBiase vs. DX, Breaking Point 09

In no order. Those are the ones that instantly spring to mind. Can't think of a final one. Something from his IC title run no doubt. Maybe vs. Christian? Don't know.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The fuck with Ziggler let Backlund have a stretched out period with Danielson.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Bryan D. said:


> top5 Cody Rhodes matches?


Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio Extreme Rules 2011
Cody Rhodes vs Randy Orton Vengeance 2011
Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio WrestleMania 27
Cody Rhodes vs Christian Over The Limit 2012
Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins NXT house show


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2008 Match*
This was awesome and coincidentally, I watched it 5 years after it took place. Starts off great with Undertaker and Shawn Michaels carrying on where they left off the previous year and they remain in the match for over 30 minutes as the ring fills up with more entrants. Unlike some other Rumbles, the middle section of this where jobbers and midcarders enter was not dull at all. Piper and Snuka being surprise entrants - as well as Foley - was great but please, for the love of God, don't ever take off your shirt to expose that fat belly, Roddy! Save for the Hornswoggle/Finlay DQ bullshit, I struggle to find any real faults with this. Also a great ending with Cena, Batista & HHH taunting each other as the final three then HHH and Cena have a very good finishing sequence to round it out as Cena FUs HHH over the top rope for the victory. The finishing sequence does not match HBK/Taker from the year before but it lasted a long amount of time and was entertaining. Would have been even better had I not known the result beforehand. And the crowd is also hot all night long. Not my favorite Rumble or anything but an awesome one nonetheless. ★★★★


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm a mark for the 08 Rumble. Everything from #29 on is GOAT. Game. Cena. MSG. Epic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm a mark for 2008 PPV's overall - as a matter of fact, I'll resume my thoughts on them like someone already did with 2011:

Royal Rumble - Poor 1st two matches but it picks up with Edge/Rey and Orton/Jeff delievering. And the RR Match itself was quite good as well. MSG crowds always bring something to the show.

No Way Out - Decent undercard, shockingly good SD Chamber, very good Orton/Cena match, amazing Raw Chamber. Solid overall, nothing much else. Oh, and the Floyd/Show segment kicked ass.

WrestleMania 24 - What can I say? Finlay/JBL, MITB, Flair/HBK, Edge/Taker, Floyd/Show, Cena/HHH/Orton... one of the GOAT WM's IMO.

Backlash - The three Main Events (HBK/Batista, Taker/Edge, Fatal 4 Way) all were very good, and the rest of the undercard was solid as well. Show/Khali might be the most shockingly not bad match ever.

Judgment Day - Awful opener aside, another PPV with good Main Events and solid undercard. Edge/Taker and HBK/Jericho were terrific. And the HHH/Orton Cage Match is pretty decent too.

One Night Stand - As the 1st TV-14 PPV, it was pretty good. Cena/JBL was awful again, but with Jeff/Umaga, HBK/Batista, Beth/Melina, Singapore Cane Match and the Taker/Edge TLC rounding it off, I forgot that match even happened.

Night Of Champions - HHH/Cena was a great Main Event, Edge/Batista was very good too, and everything else ranged from solid to watchable. Much, much better than Vengeance 07 IMO.

The Great American Bash - This time its midcard wasn't that great but it still had another amazing HBK/Jericho match. Plus a bunch of underrated contests in HHH/Edge, Punk/Batista, Matt/Shelton and that sick Parking Lot Brawl.

SummerSlam - Meh undercard, though Jeff/MVP and Punk/JBL were OK. The double Main Event (Cena/Batista and Taker/Edge) turn it into great levels.

Unforgiven - The Raw Scramble was overwhelmigly dissapointing, but the other two Scrambles ruled. Throw in two average title matches and another great HBK/Jericho match and you got another fun show here.

No Mercy - Batista/JBL, for a squash, wasn't terrible. Beth/Candice, for a supposed terrible match, wasn't it either. The supposed average midcard matches were solid. Taker/Show was a great superheavyweight brawl. And the two title matches are fucking amazing. One of the greatest B-level PPV's ever IMO.

Cyber Sunday - Already reviewed it, fun show with Taker/Show and HHH/Jeff stealing the scene. Props to Matt/Bourne and Jericho/Batista as well. Nothing terrible here.

Survivor Series - This is the dark horse, the bad repped, the ugly duckling of the group. To be fair, 1991 and 2006 were FAR, FAR worse. Cena/Jericho and Team Orton/Team Batista save this one.

Armageddon - One of the better shows of the year tops it off. Again, nothing terrible here - and with Punk/Rey, Cena/Jericho and Edge/Jeff/HHH pushing it around, it's pretty great.


That's how much 08 ruled for me


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Just wait until CAL comes on and busts your balls ATF :lol


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Cena wins the Rumble. Wow, if we really are getting the worst 'Mania card possible with the big six, that being HHH/Lesnar, Punk/Undertaker and fucking Rock/Cena II, then there is no chance I'm watching that show. 

Wasted. Potential.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

To be fair, that was a DAMN GOOD Rumble match. ★★★★½. Loved it. Major star power in that Rumble.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ROCK-CENA II ... YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!

In all seriousness though ; Punk comes out and bitches about how he never lost, triple threat ensues with Cena taking the title. Brock-Taker happens, and KINGOFKINGS has an accurate Wrestlemania card prediction


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Rumble was fun. ****

Rock v Punk was okay. ***1/2.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Rock/Cena/Punk and Undertaker/Lesnar would be perfect. Doubt it very much though.

And like that, Punk's reign ends at 434 days. It was great while it lasted. It's going to be strange not hearing "The WWE Champion, CM Punk."


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> ROCK-CENA II ... YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!
> 
> In all seriousness though ; Punk comes out and bitches about how he never lost, triple threat ensues with Cena taking the title. Brock-Taker happens, and KINGOFKINGS has an accurate Wrestlemania card prediction


THE EXPLOSION OF WRESTLINGFORUM.COM HAS COMMENCED


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They're doing a triple threat, don't even worry about it. Trips is not wrestling with DAT hair against Lesnar of all people in NEW YORK for WRESTLEMANIA. It would be like Lesnar-Goldberg with how much the crowd would shit all over it


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Rumble match was solid, but Cena winning was very obvious. 

It's funny, as soon as Punk got the pin on Rock I knew the match would get restarted. And for Rock to end Punk's reign with the people's elbow of all moves? Pretty disappointing. I was begging for Lesnar to come out as Vince was about to strip Punk, saying he had attacked The Rock. Oh well.

Punk/Rock was a solid match but nothing particuarly special.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> They're doing a triple threat, don't even worry about it. Trips is not wrestling with DAT hair against Lesnar of all people in NEW YORK for WRESTLEMANIA. It would be like Lesnar-Goldberg with how much the crowd would shit all over it


God, I hope you're right. 

Now for some RATINGS~

Del Rio vs. Big Show - ***
Hell No vs. Rhodes/Sandow - **1/2
Royal Rumble Match - ****
Rock vs. Punk - ****


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

They didn't do Punk any favors having him lose with the elbow. Just a lackluster ending to a loooooong title reign. Just have him get pinned with a Rockbottom, what's so hard about that? Oh well.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Royal Rumble 2013 Review~!*
_Del Rio vs. Big Show- ***1/4
Team Hell No vs. Rhodes Scholars- **1/2
Royal Rumble Match- *1/2
Punk/Dwayne- DUD_

Horrible, horrible show. The Last Man Standing match was fun and fine for what it was, as was the Tag Team championship match. The show started to go to shit after 9:00 hour, as the Rumble match was horrible outside of Dolph and Jericho and Rock/Punk was horrible as well. The booking to the Rumble match was atrocious but the booking for Punk/Dwayne takes the cake. The match would have only been about ** had they ended the show with Punk standing tall, but the restart made this one of the worst matches in the last twenty years. Punk hit Dwayne with nearly all of his signature moves, yet his title reign ends after getting hit with an elbow. Hell, it wasn't even Wade Barrett's elbow. It was Dwayne's!

I'm sickened. I'm marching on Washington tomorrow b/c of this.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao

Punk hits a top rope elbow and can't win, Rock (after being put through a table by 3 men) hits a standing elbow and wins.

:lmao

Even ignoring WWELogic, that was *bleep*ing stupid.

Can't believe this PPV managed to disappoint.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Del Rio vs Big Show ***1/2

Rumble match ***3/4

Rock vs Punk ***1/4 with a dash of overbooked.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They aren't retarded enough to do Lesnar-HHH @ Mania, especially since they want BORK to come back, how much will he be worth by losing to THAT GAME @ Mania ? .... Trips will referee BORK-Taker while Punk is in the main event with Cena and Rock to avoid the whole "twice in a lifetime" fiasco.

Don't worry about it. Punk will bitch and complain about how he beat Rock and nonsense will ensue, leaving Punk to enter the match at Wrestlemania somehow.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

It is a bit sickening knowing that they ended this amazing reign of Punk's, to do Cena vs. Rock II. (Unless, hopefully, you're correct KOK )

I don't know if I can stomach this company anymore. Terrible decisions everywhere.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Live notes I made:

WHC match starting the night off at the RR again. 3 years in a row. Gonna be 3 in a row for WM too? Bret Hart stuff was terrible. Ricardo is booked like some retard kid ever since the face turn. And why does he carry a bucket around with him? Low blow spot was funny. WWE go all CZW on us with LIGHT TUBES. No CZW chant though, guess they aren't a popular shitty trash promotion like ECW. Table spot looked shit. ANOTHER barricade spot? Are these bi-monthly now? DUCT TAPE. Someone has been watching Batista/Cena. Ricardo tying up Show's legs while Del Rio has the arm breaker on, injuring the arm so Show can't untie himself was a good finish. Enjoyed most of this, but wasn't anything special. **3/4

What's with Big E on the mic? I mean, I got a kick out of it, but it just seems sooooo out of place given that he's a big imposing heel.

Promos from a bunch of RR competitors? Like the good old days? :mark:

Tyson was a vegan. Not when he ate Holyfield but... :lmao.MY ZIGGY is trending worldwide. LOL Lawler still thinks Cole is on SD. Tag title match is happening and I'm paying more attention to the commentators. Basic tag match. Nothing more. **

RR isn't main eventing. Damn. Means something big is happening in the WWE title match. PLEASE BE LESNAR.

Ziggler is #1, and #2 is.... JERICHO. Cool surprise! "YOU STILL GOT IT!" "I NEVER LOST IT!" lol. Santino stuff was funny. Kofi has a new nickname: THE HUMAN YO-YO. GOLDUST!!!!!!!!! Kofi does his yearly quota of being good, with another memorable way to avoid elimination. Only to get eliminated once he makes his way back :lmao. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRAIN! Guess we can expect to see him on Raw in vegas? LMFAO at him getting eliminated straight away. Bryan/Kane spot was funny. Wish Kane threw him back in the ring though. Seeds planted for their split? :lmao Barrett eliminated by BO DALLAS. Suck it, Wade. Ryback at #30. Sin Cara goes after him, JBL says he should just climb to the top rope and eliminate himself. At that EXACT MOMENT Sin Cara climbs to the top rope :lmao. SUPERKICK! Jericho is gone! Dammit so is Ziggler . Cena wins. Expected it, bet on it, not happy about it though.

Rock cuts a promo worthy of pop idol.

Heyman is AWESOME. 

Punk is also awesome, fixing the Spanish announce table every time Rock takes it apart. The bow was :lmao. Then when Rock finally uses it, he hurts himself cos it breaks too early. That'll teach you. SHIELD. LIGHTS OUT. TRIPLE POWERBOMB. PUNK RETAINS! YES! MOTHERFUCKING YES! *looks at time* Dammit. Vince shows up. Dammit. Restarts the match. COME ON BROCK. PLEEEEASE. AWWW FUCK. Rock wins. What a shitty way to end this show. Match was solid at least. ***


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Punk's reign had to end some time, so why not keep the title on him until Mania. Make it look like an even more massive accomplishment for Cena or Rock to take the title off of him.

It's looking like a triple threat at Mania, but I would not be surprised if we get Twice in a Lifetime. But we all know Cena's winning at Mania so I literally have no excitement for WM this year


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

match was shite

fuck it. JUST FUCK IT

ARRGYGHG IM RAGING SO HARD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock/Cena II in theory is pretty bad, but it would make NO sense to have Lesnar/TRIPS II, leaving me to believe that Lesnar's getting Taker and that Punk is being interjected into Rock-Cena.

We either get ;

Rock-Cena
HHH-Lesnar
Punk-Taker 

or

Rock-Cena-Punk
BROCK-Taker

GEE. I WONDER WHICH ONE SOUNDS BETTER ?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

People getting mad over pro wrestling over in the RR thread. Lol.

RR Match and Rock V Punk match were both good. Rock needs to work on his stamina. He was out of breath BEFORE THE MATCH BEGAN IN HIS PROMO.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

ADR/Show - ***1/4
Hell No/Scholars - **3/4
Rumble - ***3/4
Punk/Rock - ***1/2

Decent show regardless of the stupid results.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Nah, Rock/Punk was shite even before the fuckery that took place after the restart.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> RR Match and Rock V Punk match were both good. Rock needs to work on his stamina. He was out of breath BEFORE THE MATCH BEGAN IN HIS PROMO.


Exactly what I noticed. He's not going to have a good match if he's exhausted after just a few minutes. Cue rest holds!


----------



## scrilla (Jan 18, 2008)

the marks are buying into my fake meltdown


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

People getting mad that Rock pinned him with his elbow drop.

Dude beat Hogan at WM with his elbow drop. Punk didnt get BERRIED. Calm down marks.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't like Rock/Punk at all and actually thought Punk looked pretty worthless. He had some cool little things to add, but his work-over was dull as crap and it looked like the first time he really cared in the match was when it restarted. I don't want to say he was mailing it in, but fuck me it was boring to watch. Not a good match.

Goldust was the highlight of the show for the simple fact I can get new hopes they give him a ten minute TV match every week.


----------



## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

3 Rock fans that were seated in the theater beside a couple Punk fans pulled out their iphones and started playing his theme music. :lmao

It wasn't even in sync but so fucking hilarious. :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

At first glance , despite all of the booking that I highly disagree with ; the show still wasn't that great... AT ALL. We still don't have a ****** WWE match this year and I'm not expecting that to change until TAKER-PUNK/BORK.

Some early STARZ that I'll need to evaluate on a rewatch ;

Del Rio-Show LMS : *** 3/4*
HELL NO-Rhodes Scholars : ****
Royal Rumble : *** 1/2*
Punk-Rock : *** 3/4-*** (Haven't really made up my mind yet)*

Yeah so.... Not a good show at all.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I meant **1/4 for Rock/Punk. Punk with his GOAT selling by jumping and flipping on that bad knee.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

guys, i cant take this anymore

this ending, i think its time for me to end it all

Im gonna be joining Eddie, Benoit, Lance Cade (he's dead right?) up in heaven

:101


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Rock's match I give ****. Awesome from the get-go. You could feel the hate and intensity from these two men and the two went at each other with everything they've built up in the feud. I loved the psychology and selling in Punk attacking the ribs and trying to cause internal bleeding on The Rock's part, and The Rock attacking Punk's leg after Punk "re-injured" it. The selling from both men was excellent and it made the match all the better.

The crowd, my god, I can't believe Punk actually split the crowd with Rock for 95% of the match. Wasn't expecting that, and it shows just how over CM Punk is that he could do that with The Rock on the opposite side of the ring in Phoenix of all places. Made the match all the better and really feel like an all-time big main event match that neither man was booed besides Punk during his entrance.

So I'm enjoying this match, and as I was thinking throughout and the past 6 months, nothing could ruin the result for me. Nothing could ruin the match. But boy oh boy, WWE loves to prove me wrong, doesn't it? It was extremely simple on how to end this. Either have Lesnar cost Rock the match, not in that darkness bullshit, but in plain sight after a ref bump, or have Rock pin Punk clean in the middle of the ring. There was no need for this controversial shit they did. First off it makes Rock look weak that even a minute after he was attacked, he still couldn't kick out at 3, and Punk gets beaten fairly easily and has his reign ended in unspectacular fashion with ONE people's elbow, and a Rock Bottom earlier granted, but still kinda silly for a man who's taken two AA's and two pedigrees and still kicked out. They could've at least had Punk kick out of the People's Elbow and then after a few reversals fall prey to the Rock Bottom to lose the title, but instead they go for the weakest shit they could think of.

So all in all, I really can't believe this. A match I thought would be bull-shit proof and have either a clean finish, or build to a mega Wrestlemania main event, ended up being full of bull-shit at the end. Both men look weaker after the match, the match is tainted in unneeded controversy, and we now have to look forward to Rock/Cena. The only solace in all this is if WWE use this to give Punk a reason to be in the Wrestlemania main event, but they still could've done that even if Punk lost clean as they could've had him use his rematch clause for Wrestlemania. That all being said and the bitching out of the way, I'm happy Rock ended the reign tonight instead of Cena ending it at Mania, and it's great to see Rock have the belt, period. Looking forward to his promo tomorrow night on Raw and looking forward to seeing what they do to build up EC with him.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I'd honestly be fine with this card:

The Rock (C) vs. CM Punk vs. John Cena
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker 

Those two matches alone would get me super hyped for Mania. It's amazing how much adding Punk to the Rock/Cena match raises my interest level so much.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

**1/2 for Rock/Punk. Was incredibly disappointed and because it needs to be said to the ignorant masses on this forum, it has nothing to do with the winner.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

**1/2 for Rock/Punk. Was incredibly disappointed and because it needs to be said to the ignorant masses on this forum, it has nothing to do with the winner.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Redead said:


> guys, i cant take this anymore
> 
> this ending, i think its time for me to end it all
> 
> ...


Same, brother.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena-Rock-Punk promo tomorrow basically confirming their triple threat @ Mania happens tomorrow. Anybody with a brain will realize one thing ; CM PUNK HAS NO FUCKING REASON TO FEUD WITH THE UNDERTAKER. IT WOULD MAKE NO FUCKING SENSE WHATSOEVER.

Lesnar actually has a reason ; he took out Taker's implied homoerotic partner in THE GAME. Punk's character revolves around having that championship, and hypothetically if they were to do Punk-Taker, the set up would be ridiculous and unbelieveable.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought Del Rio/Show was MOTN pretty easily. I could realistically watch Punk/Rock again, but......I really, really don't want to. The Rumble was half "bunch of fun" and half "eh" for me.


----------



## scrilla (Jan 18, 2008)

C.M. PUNK VS. THE ROCK FOR THE WWE TITLE 

Really good match. Rock won the title but they did a great swerve with Punk pinning Rock after the lights went out as Rock had the match beat and The Sheild came out. The lights were out and The Shield did the triple-team power bomb on Rock through the English announcers table. Punk put Rock in the ring and pinned him and was announced as the winner.

Vince McMahon came out and went to strip Punk of the title for The Shield interfering. Rock, who was selling like he was dead, on his back, said that you aren't going to take the title from him that way, I'm going to. They went 2:00 more with Rock kicking out of the Randy Savage elbow and coming back to win with a spinebuster and people's elbow.


god could Big Dave be anymore biased.


Del Rio winning it for Mexico was an amazing performance. dat BUMP and the "light tubes". CZW! CZW! CZW!


----------



## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

:cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock :cena2 :rock


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sounds like people are split on Punk/Rock. Looking forward to watching the show despite the less than stellar reviews.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

They were light tubes in Del Rio/Show? What?


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Am I the only one who loved that Rumble match? It sucks that an awesome Rumble will always be overshadowed by Cena's predictable win.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Rock/Punk was a little meh. Although I didn't hate it as much as others. 

Show/Del rio MOTN


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock/Cena... Lesnar/HHH... Taker/Punk... you know it's a little different thinking about Taker/Punk now without the title, but if this card happens, then wow... Cena over Rock, HHH over Lesnar... it's gonna be hell.

Hopefully this triple threat idea ends up coming to fruition. Still no stopping Lesnar/HHH me thinks, though that leaves us with the question, what do they do with Taker? Does he take this year off? Or does he fight Orton? Sheamus? Nah, they're probably fighting each other. Ryback? Meh, could work, Ryback's still virtually unstoppable in a staright-up one on one match, but would've been better before he lost his undefeated streak. 

God damn it, they better not dare do Lesnar/HHH and put Taker against Lesnar. Right now that's the only thing that can really save Mania for me.

Punk/Rock was a great match and MOTN. Had a great work-rate, some superb psychology, amazing selling, and damn high intensity. The ending did suck and brought it down quite a bit for me (with a proper finishing stretch and ending, it would've gotten ****1/2 at the rate it was going from me). But overall an enjoyable match, and what I was expecting for the most part.

Show/Del Rio gets ***1/4. Rumble match gets ***3/4. Tag title match I can barely remember right now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

As generic HHH fan #456 on this forum I can tell you this for sure ; He isn't fucking wrestling with short hair. Will he referee a Brock-Taker match ? Maybe.... Will he wrestle ? FUCK NO.

Summerslam 2012 was used to setup Taker-Lesnar @ Mania. Rock-Punk-Cena happens, Cena takes the title and feuds with Punk post Wrestlemania. Plus, Punk-Taker has no foundation to even be built on at this point.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

When Taker returns and confronts Brock, I'll believe it. Until then, nothing can convince me right now that Lesnar/HHH isn't happening. So what if his hair was short? People couldn't believe Taker was wrestling bald, and he wrestled bald... well... he wrestled with a mo-hawk, but still. The whole hair thing isn't enough to change my thinking. It just seemed like standard build where the heel topples the babyface, only for the face to come out in the end when it matters.

Taker/Punk can be built on Punk's desire for respect, and setting his sights on gaining it by doing what no man has never done, and what would cement his legacy forever, and that's end the streak. Granted, without the title it doesn't have the same panache and Taker doesn't have much a reason to fight Punk... but oh well, he didn't have any reason to fight HHH at WM27 besides a loose connection to HBK and he did, and frankly he really doesn't have much reason to fight against Lesnar.

Unless Taker cares for DA GAME!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

-World Heavyweight Championship - Last Man Standing Match: Alberto Del Rio (c) vs The Big Show ***1/4 - *** 1/2
-Royal Rumble Match *** 1/2
-WWE Championship: CM Punk (c) vs The Rock ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk-Taker makes NO SENSE though. How the hell would that feud even begin ? "I just lost the title which verifies my existence, OH HI UNDERTAKER" .......... Taker-Lesnar actually has legs under it at the moment with the whole Taker-Trips connection. Punk will be added to the championship match and he will get his main event spot.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Big Show-Del Rio was my favourite match of the night too, although the finish was lame. 

Tag title match was average.

Royal Rumble was pretty good I thought with the usual credentials. Iron man performances from Ziggler and Jericho (so good to see him back), the surprise entrants - hearing The Godfather's music really made me go 'whaaa!' - and the usual superhero performances from Cena et al. Finish was so anti-climactic though, was expecting Ryback to hold on to the ropes but nope he just falls to the floor like a sack of pigshit. Lame. 

Rock-Punk was a very good match, with a couple of botches (one from that table - future endeavours etc) but that didn't detract from the quality. Finish was utter, utter bullshit though. Didn't care who won, but to defeat a guy who has taken on all comers, had a record reign, kicked out of multiple finishing moves, yet he loses to a single solitary elbow. A FUCKING ELBOW. Awful.


----------



## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Punk-Taker makes NO SENSE though. How the hell would that feud even begin ? "I just lost the title which verifies my existence, OH HI UNDERTAKER" .......... Taker-Lesnar actually has legs under it at the moment with the whole Taker-Trips connection. Punk will be added to the championship match and he will get his main event spot.


There's a ridiculous amount of ways it could go actually.

All he'd have to do is talk about how he rightfully won. Troll the fans on how he's the rightful champ. Mention his reign. Talk about being at the top of the mountain and being unstoppable.

Que Undertaker's music.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lesnar-Taker makes 10x more sense than Taker-Punk though. I don't understand how nobody realized that this was the plan all along ; Have HHH-Lesnar to build Lesnar back up again, and have your ultimate pay off @ Mania against Taker with HHH in Taker's corner or the special referee or some shit.

Taker-Punk would be out of nowhere whereas Lesnar-Taker would actually have a story behind it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Punk-Taker makes NO SENSE though. How the hell would that feud even begin ? "I just lost the title which verifies my existence, OH HI UNDERTAKER" .......... Taker-Lesnar actually has legs under it at the moment with the whole Taker-Trips connection. Punk will be added to the championship match and he will get his main event spot.


If you still don't think Taker/Punk makes sense after my post, then I suppose it just won't make sense to you at all.

And by the way, it's not that I think Taker/Punk makes more sense than Taker/Lesnar, but there is sense in all of it and it could work, going back to Punk's desire for respect. I really really hope Taker/Lesnar happens and would far prefer it to Taker/Punk, but I can't see it happening unless, God forbid, something serious happens to HHH. 

Frankly, I think the bigger problem with Taker/Punk is the fact Punk doesn't look credible enough right now to fight Taker and beating Rock and keeping the title would've maybe given him enough, but I suppose it is what it is. Once again, Punk/Rock/Cena and Taker/Lesnar sounds A LOT better to me than Rock/Cena II, Lesnar/HHH II, and Taker/Punk from all sides, but I don't know the likeliness of it happening.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Punk-Taker makes NO SENSE though. How the hell would that feud even begin ? "I just lost the title which verifies my existence, OH HI UNDERTAKER" .......... Taker-Lesnar actually has legs under it at the moment with the whole Taker-Trips connection. Punk will be added to the championship match and he will get his main event spot.


It's fucking WWE. Nothing has to make sense. If they REALLY want to do Cena/Rock II for the title it WILL happen. One SHIELD attack onto Taker, and boom, there's Punk vs. Taker set up. I don't know why you're so adamant on saying that "Punk-Taker makes no sense", when it's the WWE.


----------



## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Lesnar-Taker makes 10x more sense than Taker-Punk though. I don't understand how nobody realized that this was the plan all along ; Have HHH-Lesnar to build Lesnar back up again, and have your ultimate pay off @ Mania against Taker with HHH in Taker's corner or the special referee or some shit.
> 
> Taker-Punk would be out of nowhere whereas Lesnar-Taker would actually have a story behind it.


Yeah but the majority of the fans they're targeting

A) Don't even have a recollection of their previous matches

and

B) Don't read up on gossip sites about their supposed problems with one another


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm convinced we're getting Lesnar-Taker and Rock-Punk-Cena so here's what I'm gonna do ; If Lesnar-HHH and Punk-Taker happens I will gladly admit that I am a complete fucking moron for believing that the WWE would actually do something interesting for a change.

There. Still doesn't change my mind unk2


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> Lesnar-Taker makes 10x more sense than Taker-Punk though. I don't understand how nobody realized that this was the plan all along ; Have HHH-Lesnar to build Lesnar back up again, and have your ultimate pay off @ Mania against Taker with HHH in Taker's corner or the special referee or some shit.
> 
> Taker-Punk would be out of nowhere whereas Lesnar-Taker would actually have a story behind it.


I can't see Undertaker/Lesnar happening for one reason right now Brock Lesnar is not "in" WWE and in order for the match to begin you would need Undertaker to call Brock Lesnar out by name which would kind be out of the blue since WWE is selling that Brock quit WWE. Triple H however is the type of guy that can do that telling the world that he thinks he has enough left in the tank to fight Brock Lesnar one more time. Brock at first does not accept and Triple H up's the offer to putting his career or COO job on the line to which Brock accepts the challenge. 

As far as Punk/Undertaker goes CM Punk can talk about how disrespectful it was to lose to The Rock the way he did at Royal Rumble and how his one rematch was inside the Chamber and that he deserves better then that as he's the Best in the World cue Undertaker's music where he challenges Punk to Wrestlemania pretty much saying you want respect, you want to be viewed as the Best in the World beat me at Wrestlemania and you will get all of that.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I think we are getting a triple threat for the title with Rock, Cena, and Punk 

I literally have no idea who Taker will face, the only reasonable option to agree with KingofKings is Lesnar because he took out HHH and wants to take out the Legend of the WWE.

But Trips/Lesnar 2 wouldn't surprise me at all, trips calls out Lesnar and the rematch happens at WM.

But that leaves Taker with nobody to face....

This is the biggest meltdown the forum has seen since Bryan/Sheamus at WM


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Tonight's PPV was the definition of disappointing. Del Rio vs Big Show was motn? That says it all right there. Fair play to them to for putting on an exciting, relentless battle that was full of brutal moments, all of which led to me suspending my disbelief in regards to Show actually regaining the WHC. The finish was fucking stupid though, almost made me anticipate Cena winning the Rumble by hoisting Khali out of the ring with a forklift truck :russo. I would probably have given this match an extra 1/2* if I were invested in either of these characters, but I don't watch Smackdown, don't care about Big Show in 2013 and don't know if I can adjust to Del Rio as a babyface, especially when he continues to use such heelish tactics. ***

Team Hell No vs Rhodes' Scholars for the Tag team titles was an okay under card match. It was good to see Bryan and Kane linking up so well, they were actually wrestling like a tag team. Sandow's heat got the crowd worked up and Rhodes did his job as a mechanic. This really would have benefited from five extra minutes. **1/2

I wasn't bothered about the outcomes of any of the matches despite being apathetic towards "twice in a lifetime" potentially (most definitely) happening. The Royal Rumble match was like a lucky dip with rusty nails and razor blades for prizes. Goldust was the highlight of the event, yet we weren't even given one shattered dream. Godfather was more over than 90% of the other participants but was only allowed to put in a performance akin to this:










The final four was as predictable as Norwich losing an early round FA Cup tie. Ziggler, Sheamus, Ryback, Cena as the final four? Colour me suprised (or *BLACK*)! The same goes for the eventual winner, but I could have lived with that if the match had actually managed to build some genuine tension, drama and excitement. Might as well rebrand it the Royal Jobberfest from now on, there were far too many scopers and non-believable winners involved for my liking. It just felt like they were filling up the ring full of spackers in anticipation of the starz to come out and wipe them out instead of building interesting mini feuds that helped to build a story. Rhodes/Goldust was the closest we got to that, Bo Rotunda/Barrett was also attempted but that didn't really work, for me at least. A tedious match that never seemed to end. *1/2

As for the main event? It was _okay_. The psychology was sound and most of the decisions made by both men made sense. Punk worked his nuts off throughout the match in order to keep it at a passable level and he has to be commended for that. Early there were some really stiff strikes and kicks implemented by both men which looked good. Other than that the match was a bit pedestrian. Unfortunatley the Rock couldn't keep up with the pace (which is to be expected from a part timer) and the match suffered due to the that, although not to the point where it became shit. It's never a good sign when a match starts off at a furious pace before almost grinding to a holt later on. I would have been happy with either man winning, but restarting the match did nothing for me at all because all of the momentum had been lost when the match ended the first time. 

A clean finish within fifteen minutes (don't care about the winner) would have been preferable to what we actually got. Neither Punk or Rock ended the match looking particuarly strong in my opinion, if anything the Shield were the ones that truly went over. Rocky as champion is interesting but the change of the guard fell flat for me because the match ended up being such a mess, one without a difinitive winner. Punk cheated so he clearly looked weak. Meanwhile, Rock was pinned an age after the Shield attack, that did nothing for him. Rock cashing in on his "Hogan in the bank" contract was also hilarious. I was more than happy with the result, but the journey to it was "Rocky" to say the least. **

**1/2 PPV

As for the aforementioned "twice in a lifetime match", the only thing that could make this worthwhile (for me) is a Cena heel turn involving the Shield. What I'm expecting is a clean Cena victory and a handshake/passing of the torch deal. Yeah, because Cena needs that (Y)


----------



## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

Once again, why is anybody surprised at the results? 75% of the people on here have predicted this exact outcome since Raw 1000.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm convinced we're getting Lesnar-Taker and Rock-Punk-Cena so here's what I'm gonna do ; If Lesnar-HHH and Punk-Taker happens I will gladly admit that I am a complete fucking moron for *believing that the WWE would actually do something interesting for a change.*
> 
> There. Still doesn't change my mind unk2


There's your first mistake :lmao

Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. Hell, I'd LOVE the Triple Threat and Brock/Taker because it DOES make more sense then Rock/Cena and Punk/Taker. I'm arguing against the fact that you believe WWE couldn't do Taker/Punk because it doesn't make sense. Because that simply isn't true. Even if it doesn't makes sense, if WWE wants something bad enough, they get it.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

A$AP said:


> Once again, why is anybody surprised at the results? 75% of the people on here have predicted this exact outcome since Raw 1000.


If that's in any way directed at me, I'm not moaning about the results, I just didn't enjoy the journey towards them.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

A$AP said:


> Once again, why is anybody surprised at the results? 75% of the people on here have predicted this exact outcome since Raw 1000.


I think people really were hoping WWE were not that crazy in thinking a Rock/Cena 2 rematch would match or surpass the number they did last year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

A$AP said:


> Once again, why is anybody surprised at the results? 75% of the people on here have predicted this exact outcome since Raw 1000.


Seems like people see the obvious results and then get surprised when WWE doesn't swerve them because of how obvious the obvious results looked. Cena and Rock were always winning. I gave Punk the slightest of chances of retaining but that was only if Vince wanted to do Rock/Lesnar, which evidently he does not.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well realistically that's the only two paths the WWE can take with their main event scene this year, and frankly option #2 is always a little more glorious. For some reason I just can't see Trips actually wrestling with that hair. Just imagine how ridiculous he would look... Seriously. Doesn't his look now just SCREAM "special referee" ? :lol

I can see it happening, but it just wouldn't feel right TBH  What's weird is that I'd fucking LOVE Brock-HHH II and even Punk-Taker, it's just that I believe that Brock-Taker and Rock-Punk-Cena makes WAYYYY more sense.

They honestly couldn't have Rock go over the top guy and not give anything back could they ?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This might be the first time I've accurately predicted a final 4 in the Rumble. Not sure if that means the WWE booked their biggest guys correctly or if the product is too predictable.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Pulls a swerve ; The Rock wrestles a triple threat match @ Mania against John Cena and his favorite Mexican Cousin JUAN CENA.

:cena2 :vince #Buyrates


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> WWE Pulls a swerve ; The Rock wrestles a triple threat match @ Mania against John Cena and his favorite Mexican Cousin JUAN CENA.
> 
> :cena2 :vince #Buyrates


You're taking this well :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Can't handle DAT :rock4:cena4:vince


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've resorted to trolling the rest of the forum in an attempt to conceal my own disappointment. I'm just glad at this point that another Mania won't end with ROCK ON TOP OF THE WORLD. 

:cena2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You know what the sad thing is? After the pipebomb with Punk, after Rock's return, after Lesnar's return, Punk's 434 day title reign, Rock's big title win, everything goes back to the way it was pre-July 2011 after Wrestlemania 28.  Even if Punk ends up feuding with Cena after Mania, I don't expect him to get the title back. Cena will conquer Punk and move onto his next opponent. Conquer that guy, and move onto his next opponent until someone screws him, where he'll then fuck off from the title scene until after he loses to Taker at WM30, which then he'll regain his title and continue his run. This will continue until Cena retires, I'm convinced.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yep, Cena is going over Rock at Mania like most of us expected and some of us tried to believe WWE would go in another direction.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Cena defeats Punk at the Chicago PPV in June as well. This is Cena's year, baby.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> I've resorted to trolling the rest of the forum in an attempt to conceal my own disappointment. I'm just glad at this point that another Mania won't end with ROCK ON TOP OF THE WORLD.
> 
> :cena2


I'm concealing my disappointment with smilies and laughing off the decision by WWE

What happened Vince?? 

Vince: oh you know, :rock:cena2=:vince


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

While I'm not looking forward to Rock/Cena II one bit, I expected the results tonight and I'm happy personally. I would have been happy if CM Punk retained as well, but Rock winning is nice as well, growing up and him being one of my favourites. To see him win the championship one more time is nice. I'm still holding out hope Punk is somehow put in that picture and we get a triple threat WrestleMania main event, but it seems to be going down the route of Rock/Cena, Punk/Taker and HHH/Lesnar, which I'm not a huge fan of.

As for the Rumble, I really enjoyed the show. Rock/Punk seems to be getting mixed reviews but I personally loved the match itself. The start was hot and the crowd was into it.

Last Man Standing: Alberto Del Rio vs. Big Show - ***1/4
Tag Team Championships: Team Hell No vs. Rhodes Scholars - **
Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4
WWE Championship: CM Punk vs. The Rock - ****


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4
WWE Championship: CM Punk vs. The Rock - ***1/2

Both matches were good,that's it.

Wrestlemania 29:
Rock vs. Cena vs. Punk.
Undertaker vs. Lesnar.

Other than that Wrestlemania would suck.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So will we be getting the rubber match at Mania 30 with Cena/Rock, or will Cena winning the title eradicate the need for it?

Seriously, what a big crock of shit, soooo glad I didn't buy the damn Rumble, I did think yesterday Punk would retain, I should have stuck to my original thought, i/we all knew months ago we'd be getting Rock/Cena II.

The whole event sounds like shit tbh, great start to the year eh, I havnt even watched the fucking ppv yet and im pissed lol.

I would say lwts hope the road to Mania is worth it but fuck it, im now expecting fuck all ir the same old shit.

Bollocks to it all lol.

EDIT - I suppose Jericho being in the Rumble was.......nice, and of course Goldust

Saying all that, i _may_ be suprised when/if i actually watch the damn event!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Royal Rumble 2013​*
1) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Last Man Standing Match*
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Big Show ~ *1/4


2) *WWE Tag Team Championship*
Team Hell No(c) _(Kane & Daniel Bryan)_ vs Rhodes Scholars _(Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow)_ ~ **1/2


3) *Royal Rumble Match* ~ **


4) *WWE Championship*
CM Punk(c) vs The Rock ~ *​
Whole lot of blah. Rumble has it's moments. JERICHO & GOLUDST. A few more fun bits. Not even upset about Cena either. Of course I called it miles away. I'm sure some others did too. Main event severely lacked a buzz. Rock was gassed early on again and he was loudly calling spots during the entire bout. Didn't help with the poor booking in the finish too. Very flat way to win. If Rock had to win, couldn't there have been some drama? Eh. Whatever. Went 4 for 4 on these predictions _(for the main show)_ and wasn't shocked by any of them. I think that says it all.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't know about anybody else but after a first live viewing, I absolutely ADORED that Rumble match. Wow. I haven't that much pure fun watching a WWE match in forever. Jericho at number 2? HES STILL GOT IT BABAY! That was great and what a freaking pop. Crowd loved him and he was a legit surprise. Fantastic way to kick things off. Goldust. I marked. Godfather. I marked. Cool little moments throughout combined with the star power. I really enjoyed myself watching this thing and I'm not even mad that Cena won. I knew he would win, what's there to be mad about? Rock/Punk was pure fuckery. That ending? :lmao Jesus. The actual match was....I'm not quite sure yet. I think I need to watch it again. I don't think it was fantastic but I don't think it sucked either. I need to watch it again before I come to a conclusion. I liked the rib work from Punk and then the leg work from Rock but neither was consistent enough for it to really stand out on either side. Rock winning the title after all this time gave me my moneys worth. That's what I bought this PPV for and as a paying customer, I'm happy. Yeah, Rock/Cena II is obviously on the horizon but I've accepted it and I'm fine with it. It's not what I want but it's happening so I may as well get used to it. Hey, maybe that heel turn will finally happen...

*Rumble match - ****1/2
Rock/Punk - Something around ***1/2 to ***3/4*

As for Mania, I'm predicting Rock/Cena II for the WWE Title and Brock/Taker for the streak. I'm with KOK in that I'm starting to think HHH won't physically wrestle but be involved with a match, possibly something to do with The Shield. I'm thinking they're going to attack Vince on Raw tonight sparking something between them. Maybe Team HHH/WWE vs The Shield at Mania or something along those lines. No clue where that leaves Punk. I reckon Seamus and Orton will have a non title match, Kane vs. Bryan, Ryback vs. Show or Punk maybe, Jericho vs. Ziggler with a Ziggler WHC cash in at Mania itself. That's where I'm at regarding Mania atm. Now that it's all finally happening though, I'm just going to let it all play out and see what happens before throwing a fit over anything. Raw later on tonight, let the fuckery begin again.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Clique said:


> Yep, Cena is going over Rock at Mania like most of us expected and some of us tried to believe WWE would go in another direction.
> 
> I also wouldn't be surprised if Cena defeats Punk at the Chicago PPV in June as well. *This is Cena's year, baby*.










8*D

Fuck this company.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> *Royal Rumble 2013​*
> 1) *World Heavyweight Championship* - *Last Man Standing Match*
> Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Big Show ~ *1/4
> 
> ...


Best post ITT right here although I disagree on Del Rio/Show. The Rumble match was horried and Punk/Rock was one of the worst matches in recent history.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I was actually very much enjoying the Rumble match itself. Ziggler and Jericho had great performances. Goldust was a fun trip down memory lane. Seeing he and Cody go at it was fun. But the entire match came crumbling down as soon Cena came in. The match was entirely about him once he entered. It was terrible. Jericho's performance after not wrestling in months was impressive and something Cena can only dream about pulling off even without a long layoff. Truth.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Normally I re-watch the rumble the next day (which would be today) and review it. Think this time I'm gonna wait a little while before re-watching . End to the show really left a BAD taste in my mouth. Might not have been so bad if Punk didn't look like a fucking chump and if his reign went out with a bang instead of a whimper.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Normally I re-watch the rumble the next day (which would be today) and review it. Think this time I'm gonna wait a little while before re-watching . End to the show really left a BAD taste in my mouth. Might not have been so bad if Punk didn't look like a fucking chump and if his reign went out with a bang instead of a whimper.


Agree. They really didn't do Punk any favors with having him lose with a freaking elbow. Listen, we all knew he was going to lose, and that's fine. But can they at least bother to have his opponent do his finishing move (Rockbottom)? Geez. Whether you hate the guy or love the guy, you have to respect the fact that he busted his ass for over 400 days and did his very best to prove that he deserved the title for so long. When it comes time for him to lose, is it really asking much to have him lose to his opponents finisher? I mean, at least have him do it once. Nowadays, in these main events, you have guys kicking out of finishing moves multiple times per match. Don't see the logic in not having the long time champion dropping the belt without at least one finisher being done.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

During the Punk/Rock match I was enjoying it. It felt like it was building up gradually and move towards some great near-falls, counters and shocks at the end. But the lights going out and the restart killed it. I was begging Lesnar to come out as Vince was stripping Punk of the title and saying it was him that had attacked Rock. Oh well.

And I'll say it before and I'll say it again - Rock wins with the People's Elbow? He ends a 434 day title reign with the People's Elbow?! Just no.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't actually mind that he lost to the People's Elbow. Rock's beaten like, everyone with that back in the day. It WAS his main finisher for the most part. Its a fucking shitty terrible looking finisher and probably one of the worst along with the worm and the cobra though. But I definitely think Punk should have taken some more punishment first. If there was ever a time for a FINISHER FEST then this match was it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fuck, I'm so happy right now. Never felt this great since The Rock beat Cena at WM28. The reign of terror is over, The Rock is WWE Champion ten years after his last year being full-time and Punk seemingly finding the way out of the main event door at last. I feel so good that I'm in the mood of refocusing with everything concerning my life including school work. It might sound exaggerated but really, I woke up in a good mood and I hope this carries on until summer when I graduate.

:yes


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> I don't actually mind that he lost to the People's Elbow. Rock's beaten like, everyone with that back in the day. It WAS his main finisher for the most part. Its a fucking shitty terrible looking finisher and probably one of the worst along with the worm and the cobra though. But I definitely think Punk should have taken some more punishment first. *If there was ever a time for a FINISHER FEST then this match was it.*


Nail on the head right there.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

What's with everybody hating on the People's Elbow? Austin, HHH, Taker, Foley, Hogan, Angle etc have all gone down to the elbow. It's his finishing move lol. Besides, the whole storyline was about Rock winning for the people. It was only fitting that he beat the man who supposedly turned his back on the people by hitting him with the People's Elbow, no? If it's the fact that it was just 1 finishing move then I get it. I thought Punk would at least kick out of 1 Rock Bottom and Rock out of 1 GTS. Neither of them even happened in the match though iirc. I'm going to watch the match again in about an hour or so. I'm curious to see how I find it this time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't wait for Rock's EPIC TITLE REIGN now. No doubt filled with terrible promos and he'll be lucky to have a single good match (then again what are the odds he wrestles more than 2; EC and WM?). WM is shaping up to be pretty shitty atm. Hope they pull a couple of SWERVES and give us something good.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> What's with everybody hating on the People's Elbow? Austin, HHH, Taker, Foley, Hogan, Angle etc have all gone down to the elbow. It's his finishing move lol. Besides, the whole storyline was about Rock winning for the people. It was only fitting that he beat the man who supposedly turned his back on the people by hitting him with the People's Elbow, no? If it's the fact that it was just 1 finishing move then I get it. I thought Punk would at least kick out of 1 Rock Bottom and Rock out of 1 GTS. Neither of them even happened in the match though iirc. I'm going to watch the match again in about an hour or so. I'm curious to see how I find it this time.


It's not just losing to the people's elbow like you said, the problem was that was the only move that beat Punk. If Punk had kicked out of a Rock Bottom and another couple of big moves and then lost to the people's elbow, then that would have been fine. But Rock just hit it and that was it - a really poor way to end such a long reign.

Plus, during the promo on the recent Raw (or was it the week before?), Rock was talking about how he'd get Punk in the Rock Bottom and Punk would panic and end up losing the match. It would have made more sense to see some sort of payoff from that.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> It's not just losing to the people's elbow like you said, the problem was that was the only move that beat Punk. If Punk had kicked out of a Rock Bottom and another couple of big moves and then lost to the people's elbow, then that would have been fine. But Rock just hit it and that was it - a really poor way to end such a long reign.
> 
> Plus, during the promo on the recent Raw (or was it the week before?), Rock was talking about how he'd get Punk in the Rock Bottom and Punk would panic and end up losing the match. It would have made more sense to see some sort of payoff from that.


Yeah, that's fair enough because I thought that was a little odd myself, Punk not kicking out of anything or Rock for that matter. Strange since most BIG matches like that often have a lot of false finishes. The Shield thing is to blame for that though. I think they were just hitting that point in the match and then they came out and everything went to shit. 

The Rock Bottom point is very true. I guess it is rather strange that there wasn't even a Rock Bottom in the match. Maybe Rock didn't want Punk to kick out of his movez durr :rock4


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Well yeah, the fact that all Punk took was a people's elbow to lose the belt after over 400 days is kind of a weak way to end such a long reign. It was pretty surprising. 

These next 2 months of Rock's title reign really don't mean much. It's good business, if nothing else. Having a big name champion will draw extra attention to WWE and especially WM. But make no mistake about it, The Rock's little 2 month title reign is pretty much meaningless. He's holding the belt for 8 weeks to serve it on a silver platter to the Golden Boy at WM. 

Part of me can't wait to see Cena once again be the champion with the entire roster once again nipping at his heels. That is going to be one LONG ass brutal title reign. Get ready. I can't wait for the laughs.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Their saving their finisher fest for the rematch at EC yo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The lights out part of the match could have been really cool...if it turns out it wasn't Shield and was Lesnar or something. But considering that I'm pretty sure we saw Reigns' tattoo, that's not happening.

Overall that match had far too much fuckery. And not the good kind. Still confused why they had Punk doing all those acrobatic moves while the announcers are putting emphasis on his injury. Confused me a bit. No blame with anyone on the table spot...it just happened. 

Found the Rumble fun but felt really deflated once Zig went out. Disappointed there was no Henry or Christian though.

Going into Mania I'm not really sure what's going to happen now but Rock/Cena II doesn't interest me one bit. I'm praying to god Punk gets a prominent role in the show but I wouldn't bet on it at the moment. Jericho being back is awesome, hopefully we get Jericho/Ziggler. God knows for Daniel Bryan, he'll probably be filler somewhere. What pisses me off about these top heavy WMs with all the big guys at the top is the way they treat the entire undercard like filler when they could be promising matches. I'm well aware that the average fan is paying to see Rock/Taker/etc but it's also the perfect place to give up and coming guys a chance to move up a notch. Because eventually WWE won't be able to call up Rock or Taker.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I would expect Bryan to face Kane at Mania after Hell No drop the titles at EC. Seems like they're pretty close to breaking up after the Rumble, which is strange because they were selling how Shelby "fixed" them earlier in the night.

Punk/Taker, HHH/Lesnar, Cena/Rock, Orton/Sheamus, Bryan/Kane, Ziggler/Jericho is a pretty sweet Mania card, if only they weren't all rematches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bryan/Kane would interest me at any other PPV but Mania. I see that match getting like 5 minutes.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk's reign has been ended by a guy who can barely work for more than 30 seconds. We'll now be getting John Cena winning the title at Wrestlemania and holding it for the rest of 2013, guaranteed. If this isn't a strong sign for me to get out now, I don't know what is.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

I think if the Rock Bottom through the table wasn't botched it wouldn't have seemed as silly because that would've been a more memorable bit of damage for Punk to have taken.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I cant believe their was only one finisher lol, no GTS or anything, then one elbow and its goodnight, i mean Punk has been champ for over a year, dodged multiple bullets along the way, Rock comes along, faffs about for a bit in, what sounds like, a mediocre match, and that's it.

Fuck knows why, but i expected the match to be great (or really good at least), man they did fuck it up didnt they...


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Brye said:


> The lights out part of the match could have been really cool...if it turns out it wasn't Shield and was Lesnar or something.


Yeah, when Cole started all stuttering and said "that's..that's..!" I was just begging for him to say Brock Lesnar. Or the lights to come on with him standing over Rock.

The feud isn't over. Not a single GTS and the only Rock Bottom was at ringside (to make up for that STUPID botching table). So either Punk'll get a rematch at EC or he'll be in the Mania match. Please be the latter.

DUCT TAPE ARE YOU SERIOUS - ***
Hell No/Rhodes Scholars - **
Rumble - *** 1/2 (you can't really rate them but w/e)
Rock/Punk I - ***
Rock/Punk II - *****

:rock4


I wanted to cry at the final 3 in the Rumble btw. If it was the other 3 of the final six (Orton/Jericho/Ziggler) I would've been rather happy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Posted this elsewhere so may as well put it here:

I ordered the event and was pretty excited at the onset.

Del Rio/Show - Solid opener with some interesting spots to get the crowd fired up. Show continues to impress with me his athleticism. Table bump from the stage setup was nice, but I felt the finish was a little weak, especially considering the way Del Rio won the title. **1/2

Tag titles - Typical weekly tag match. Bryan is super over, as usual. Can't wait for this tag thing w/Kane to expire so he can move onto other (and hopefully better) things. **

Rumble - I thought this was pretty exciting. I think everyone knew the winner before it started, though, which kind of hurt. Jericho's return was a pleasant surprise and got the crowd involved early. Liked them revisiting the Ziggler/Jericho feud. Thought they missed the opportunity of having Ziggler break Rey's record. Rey doesn't need that record anymore. Ziggler should've broken the record if he wasn't going to win the match imo. Maybe there was a time constraint, since they already had to cut the divas match (not complaining). I watched the Rumble at my parent's house, and they watch with me when I'm over there (typically bigger shows such as Mania/RR/etc) and have done so since I've been watching (20+ years). My dad watched when he was a kid. When I forecasted that Cena was going to win the Rumble, my MOTHER said "if he does, I'm never ordering one of these again. He wins every time we watch these." My mother's a saint. ***1/2

Punk/Rock - A little shaky at the beginning, but I felt it was shaping into a pretty solid match. Table break sucked, but what can you do? Rock improvised with a Rock Bottom to the floor on the outside. Swerve ending was well-done, but I was pretty shocked when Punk was finished by a single Elbow. After all of the finisher fests we've witnessed in much, MUCH lower profile matches (see Cena/Ziggler x2 on Raw), I was pretty amazed that a 400+ day title reign seemed to end so abruptly. ***1/4


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Del Rio/Show - *** Match of the night

Tag Titles - ** Was expecting better if I'm honest with you. 

Rumble match - *** Some good surprises, shit final four.

Punk/Rock - ** Really wasn't good. Don't know what I was expecting though to be fair.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Watched Punk/Rock again. I have no problem with the finish and I don't think Punk looked weak at all. The simple fact is, he has been a weak champion ever since he turned heel. He hasn't been able to win a match without outside interference. What difference does it make in the end? The whole exchange of the anaconda vice into an attempted Rock Bottom into that crucifix pin reversal into the sharpshooter was pretty darn cool. I liked that. Holy Vince Pop when he comes out to restart the match. Yeah, I think this was good. Nothing mind blowing but certainly not shit either. Atmosphere was great for the most part too.

****1/2*


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I think Jericho got the biggest pop of the night.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just heard there were LIGHT TUBES in the LMS. Hell yeah, gonna watch it right now. I bet Trips is a closet Wifebeater mark! :mark:


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

DISC 1 (BIOGRAPHY)


A Happy Story
Idyllic Childhood
Huge Fan
Training School
Working the Road
WCW
Sting
Vader
ECW & Japan
Mankind
Dude Love
Hell in a Cell
Mr. Socko
The Rock
Author
Triple H
Commissioner
Going Away
Randy Orton
Making a Difference
Edge
Retirement
Stand Up Comic
A Complete One-Off

DISC 2


Jack Foley / Les Thornton vs. The British Bulldogs
Superstars September 1986
Alternate Commentary: Mick Foley & Joey Styles

Cactus Jack / Gary Young vs. Scott Steiner / Billy Travis
AWA All Star Wrestling October 1988

Cactus Jack Manson vs. Brickhouse Brown
Wild West Wrestling April 1989

Cactus Jack vs. Keith Hart
Power Hour March 1990

Submit or Surrender Match
Cactus Jack vs. Sting
Power Hour November 1991

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Cactus Jack vs. Van Hammer
Clash of the Champions XVIII 21st January, 1992

Barbed Wire Match
Cactus Jack vs. Sandman
Ft. Lauderdale, FL May 1995

Cactus Jack vs. Shane Douglas
CyberSlam February 1996
Alternate Commentary: Mick Foley & Joey Styles

Mankind vs. Rocky Maivia
IYH: Cold Day in Hell 11th May, 1997

Mankind vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley
IYH: Canadian Stampede 6th July, 1997

DISC 3


Dude Love vs. Rocky Maivia
RAW 17th November, 1997

Hell in a Cell
Mankind vs. Undertaker
King of the Ring 28th June, 1998
Alternate Commentary: Mick Foley & Joey Styles

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Mankind / Kane vs. New Age Outlaws
RAW 13th July, 1998

WWE Championship Match
Mankind vs. The Rock
IYH: Rock Bottom 13th December, 1998

WWE Tag Team Championship
Mankind / The Rock vs. Triple H / Shane McMahon
SmackDown 2nd September, 1999

Mankind vs. Al Snow
SmackDown 16th December, 1999

Hell In A Cell – Retirement Match
Cactus Jack vs. Triple H
No Way Out 27th February, 2000



BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES


Promos
Sting’s Birthday Cake
WCW World Championship Wrestling 5th October, 1991

No Ear Surgery
WCW Saturday Night 10th September, 1994

Barbie
RAW 5th April, 2004

Cutting Edge
SmackDown 1st August, 2008

Relevancy with CM Punk
RAW 24th September, 2012

Stories
Frank Foley

Snowed In

DeNucci Training School

Arrested in Italy?

Cactus Jack – The Name

Africa

Birth of Bang Bang

Losing Teeth

On the Spot

Wanted T-Shirt

Smoking Flight?

Anti-Hardcore ECW

Farewell in ECW

Vicious Suplex

Kevin Sullivan – Mentor

Rock ‘n Sock Jacket

Disneyland

Loogie Heard ‘Round the World

Commentator

Mr. Socko vs. The Cobra

Comedy Show

Favourite Mick Foley Persona

Sheamus Meets Mick

Christmas Cheer

Wardrobe

Thrifty Mick

Great Dad


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> Submit or Surrender Match
> Cactus Jack vs. Sting
> Power Hour November 1991


FUCK YES. Rest of the listings is disappointing though


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, not too thrilled with that set aside from the doc, tbh.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Love the alternate commentary on the HIAC match, it had to be there so nice that it's going to be different from other releases. Was hoping that RR 2000 Street Fight would be on the it's my GOAT match so would of loved to have it on BD, hopefully they're saving it for the HHH set.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that Street Fight has found it's way on numerous other sets, but since HIAC was on HHH's King of Kings set, they'll likely put the Street Fight on his next set.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Punk/Rock, both looked weak imo. In Rock's case, it was a good minute or so I think after The Shield put him through the table that Punk pinned Rock, and Rock still couldn't kick out. Would've been fine if Punk hit the GTS on him after getting him in the ring, then pinned him 1-2-3.

And in Punk's case, this is a man that's taken two AA's and pedigrees in matches before and still kicked out, so the fact he couldn't kick out of a weaker finisher like one people's elbow is ridiculous. Had Rock hit a second Rock Bottom and then did the People's Elbow, that would've been good. But instead, one people's elbow, and the match just kinda ends after that.

Still **** for the match, despite the shitting ending. Damn there's so many different ratings from this match. From * to ****1/4 I've seen. It's pretty crazy, and for once, I'm on the side with the higher ratings.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think Rock looked weak. Shield have taken out many people with that move. Hell, Ryback was taken out of that TLC match for like 10 minutes because of it. If anything, it keeps The Shield looking strong.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think Rock looked weak. Shield have taken out many people with that move. Hell, Ryback was taken out of that TLC match for like 10 minutes because of it. If anything, it keeps The Shield looking strong.


I just don't buy it. Rock should've kicked out of that unless they rolled him back in the ring right afterward and Punk went for the pin, but a minute after it happened... as I said, I don't buy Rock not being able to kick out of that, or I didn't anywhere before it happened. And Ryback was different. He's never actually been pinned after it happened. Rock just didn't look that strong to me after that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I can see your point of view, and tbh I felt the entire finish (that pinfall included) fell a bit flat.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Think I have it around the ***1/2 range , an enthralling match but it was sloppy.

I think The SHIELD interference was great because everyone immediately turned on Punk, seeing as it was the same finish for like the sixth consecutive title defense, and made Rock's win more universally supported.

Didn't mind the Elbow being the finish as it fit the whole feud.

1) Punk turned heel by interrupting that move
2) Rock hit Punk with the Rock Bottom, but not the Elbow in the build to the match
3) The whole feud centered around the people and if they matter, and here's a move that is literally named after them.


STARS~! 

ADR/Bigot Show ***1/2
Tag **
Rumble **** 
Punk/Rock ***1/2

Really enjoyed the Rumble. Pop of the night for Jericho and it was a legit shock. Slowed down in the middle but still had some cool storys like the Rhodes brothers , Kofi , Team Hell No , Jericho/Dolph trying to out do each other. Did lol at the NO REACTION to Sheamus/Cena just like Cena/Orton.

Also Ryback = done. Gets booed eliminating Orton and is eliminated in unexceptional fashion.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Wow, just seen Mike Know vs CM Punk from an ECW show in Manchester, England. That was a great match, ***, one of Knox's best, surprised I haven't seen it until now.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Punk took the brutal bump when the announce table broke, which may be more dangerous than any finishing move. (Just ask Kurt Angle) He also took a Rock Bottom on the concrete, a long sharpshooter on a injured leg, two Spinebusters and two Elbows. 

Probably the same people who cry about Cena being Superman but then want Punk to kick out of every finish, and even two or three times.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I hated the Sheild's interference last night. It made no sense. Going into the match, it was a stipulation that if the Shield interferes Punk would lose the title. So, what do they do? They turn out the lights and have the Shield powerbomb Rock through the table. I mean, really? Kayfabe wise, did they (Shield and Punk) really think they were fooling anybody? It just made them look extremely dumb. I know they are heels, but there is a difference between being a bastardized heel and a complete and utter idiot. Trying to sneak in a Shield interference by simply shutting out the lights and having them do the *same move they've been doing for weeks now(!)* was completely retarded. I mean really, gee, I wonder who could have powerbombed Rock through the table? It's not like we haven't seen that move being done recently.

It just made Punk look stupid to me. And he's not supposed to be a stupid heel. He's supposedly prided himself on being smarter than everyone else. And that just made him look like a mong.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Wow, just seen Mike Know vs CM Punk from an ECW show in Manchester, England. That was a great match, ***, one of Knox's best, surprised I haven't seen it until now.


Yeah, that was a pretty good match. Mike Knox was a pretty underrated worker. I remember him putting on solid matches with Rey Mysterio. No idea why they stopped his push.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I can't remember his push. When was it?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> I can't remember his push. When was it?


It was in mid-2008 I believe, where he got sent to Raw and got a couple of vignettes for his debut as a Raw wrestler. He was suppose to get a major push by working a program with Rey Mysterio that would get him over but for whatever reason, they never really put that much effort into the Knox/Mysterio program and stopped his push by sending him to Smackdown where he would eventually become a regular on WWE Superstars.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FINALLY... I'm finished with the whole PPV.

*Royal Rumble 2013:*

Alberto del Rio vs Big Show - ★★★¼
- Don't know which I prefer between this and their Smackdown match. They should have picked a different stipulation but hey, it worked both times so what the hell. The winner was obvious and it was another good match between the two. Both men did their job throughout the ring and on the ramp and there were some cool spots like Big Show going through the barricade, Del Rio being chokeslammed from the lighttube through a table but I wasn't very fond of the finish. We've already seen it before and it made Del Rio look bad as a newly turned face who has the fighting champion character to him. And Del Rio as a face is so much better even if you already know that! His offense is also cooler as he becomes sort of like a bigger Rey Mysterio.

Team Hell No vs Rhode Scholars - ★★
- Nothing more than your basic tag match and considering that all four appeared in the Rumble, this could very well be considered the piss-break of this event. Think Rhode Scholars should have won, though. After all the jobbing they've done on TV, it only made sense and also to further build-up the feud between Kane and Bryan.

Royal Rumble Match - ★★★½
- Another great Rumble and although it doesn't beat the best from the past, I enjoyed it a lot. Already starts off great with Chris Jericho being a surprise return (his tattoos don't stand out nearly as much as I expected them) and from there they just go on. Most of the match until Cena's entrance is nothing special barring Goldust/Cody's fighting but after Cena enters, business picks up and match gets a lot better. The final six section of it is great but the eliminations were kind of anticlimactic. Orton just tossed over by a clothesline (and Ryback booed!), Sheamus misses a Brogue Kick and goes over the top then the worst of it comes with Ryback who Cena ducks and is tossed over. They should've used something more dramatic on the apron or at least an actual move, perhaps the FU, to finish it off but instead they went with this middle-of-the-match style elimination. Oh and Rey Mysterio is really in ugly shape now, no wonder they have him wear a singlet.

The Rock vs CM Punk - ★★★¾
- Now it's main event time and what I've been waiting for. Crowd is surprisingly split with some "cool" smarks cheering Punk but that only adds to the atmosphere. Unsurprisingly, Rock wrestling feels a lot more 'normal' than when he wrestled Cena as he's probably shaken some more of the ring rust and we actually see more wrestling than overuse of restholds. It also helps that they go slightly above 20 minutes rather than 30 minutes. But I still prefer the Cena match because that one had a more big time atmosphere and a clean finish. Would have had this on 4 stars but just when the match is reaching to its full potential, they pull off that nonsense with The Shield and as such, the last couple of minutes gets split from the 20 minutes where they went fully at it. Punk does a good job selling the knee, Rock does a good job exposing it and they manage to hit most of their signature spots bar the GTS. Oh and I didn't mind the table botch that much. It does take away only a little but at least they improvised with the Rock Bottom on the floor. Agree with the notion that Rock looked too weak with the Triple Powerbomb that he didn't kick out of even 1 minute after being laid out. I also agree that a Rock Bottom would have made the finish better but if the problem is Punk looking weak, then I'm all for it. 1, 2, 3 and just like that, 434 days of misery are finally over! I can't believe it, and Rock with the title is a beautiful sight. Great match with a great ending if we take out the stupid restart & Shield parts. I must admit that I am glad I didn't watch this live, though. Had I witnessed Punk's temporary victory, I would've lost it completely but downloading it the next day saved me the terror.

*Overall Rating:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (A very enjoyable event with three great matches but also because of that, it feels a bit small because there are only 4 matches. Still they HIT where it matters the most and therefore, I enjoyed this PPV! Hell, Punk's reign of terror ending would have made this a great PPV even if it was The Great American Bash 2004.)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Okay, this is my first thoughts of last night. Lets just say I'm very happy I didn't spend a penny on the FUCKERY that happened.

Royal Rumble 2013:
Show/Del Rio: * (the ending was TERRIBLE)
Hell No/Rhodes Scholars: ** (simple tag match)
Royal Rumble: ** (this dragged so much. Kingston spot was stupid, as was Hell No's. final 3 were the worst they could've had. I knew Cena was winning so I wasn't too mad. JERICHO was the best part undoubtedly.
Punk/Rock: * (awful, even before the FUCKERY at the end. Plodding pace with little to no structure. The Shield spot was pure stupidity which made no sense. I HATE face Vince.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> FINALLY... I'm finished with the whole PPV.
> 
> *Royal Rumble 2013:*
> 
> ...


I'd take the GAB 2004 over last night x100000. At least GAB had a superb Chavo/Rey match and a great Eddie/JBL match. This show had nothing.

Del Rio vs. Show - * - Horrible match. Eurgh.
Hell No vs. Rhodes Scholars - ** - Meh. A match that I'd expect to see on Raw or Smackdown, not one of the big four PPVs. 
The Royal Rumble - * 1/2 - Stupid Kofi spot. Stupid Godather appearance. Shitty final four. Predictable winner in a very anticlimatic finish. + 1/2* for Jericho.
Punk vs. The Rock - * - Far too many unneeded shenanigans that destroyed any flow that the amtch ahd, which was very little. Plodding, boring, snoozefest with nothing remotely special about it other than maybe the crowd.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watched everything so far except the main event and so far this show sucks. Del Rio/Show was a solid opener and another good but unspectacular LMS between them. They worked some cooler, bigger spots in this one like the Chokeslam through the table on the stage but they weren't able to capture the gutsy underdog slaying the giant theme as well as they did in the Smackdown match. The finish was middling for me. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. Tag titles was standard cookie cutter stuff. Not bad but totally forgettable. Jericho's return was the best part of a very mediocre Rumble. I thought it was going nicely early on with Jericho, Ziggler, Cody and Goldust but then it started to drag and I was bored and it wasn't dramatic and Cena hulked up and blah, I wasn't a fan. 

Interested to see what I make of the main event. So far it seems like a HHH/Lesnar type match where some people think it's awesome, some think it's just good, and others think it was bad.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... has Del Rio lost a LMS match? He beat Cena and beat Show twice. OMG, TAKER VS. DEL RIO, STREAK VS. STREAK, WRESTLEMANIA 29, LAST MAN STANDING! :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

LMS**
Tag match**
RR****
Rock/Punk ***½

If they have Rock in the EC i hope Punk wins the title setting up a triple threat at WM.
Still laugh over people crying about "smarks", i didn't know some of you started working for the company.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

*Alberto Del Rio vs. Big Show -* ***
*Team Hell No vs. Team Rhodes Scholares -* **
*Royal Rumble match - *****
*CM Punk vs. The Rock -* ***1/2

I liked the show. I was expecting more, but it was pretty decent.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I'd take the GAB 2004 over last night x100000. At least GAB had a superb Chavo/Rey match and a great Eddie/JBL match. This show had nothing.
> 
> Del Rio vs. Show - * - Horrible match. Eurgh.
> Hell No vs. Rhodes Scholars - ** - Meh. A match that I'd expect to see on Raw or Smackdown, not one of the big four PPVs.
> ...


I can't believe I'm defending something involving Punk but I prefer last night to GAB 04 by far. Those two matches you mentioned were good but not enough to save what a terrible show it was otherwise for the majority of it. At least last night, 3 solid matches covered up a hour and a half of it.

Everyone hating is most likely just bitter about the results.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Everyone hating is most likely just bitter about the results.


Agreed, some people can't get over the fact Punk pinned Rock 1-2-3. Bitter marks aren't happy their boy won in the end because of that. unk2

On a serious note, Rumble overall last night was enjoyable. All matches I think were at least ***, and despite Cena winning, Barrett getting eliminated by Bo Dallas, Ziggler not cashing in, Rhode Scholars not winning the tag titles, and the bullshit that happened at the end with Punk and Rock, I enjoyed the night as a whole to be honest.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Foley DVD :mark:

Match listing is a _little_ disappointing, but still mostly awesome bouts on there. I knew they just had to include the HIAC match in some capacity, and the documentary looks to be a must see. Definitely getting this.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Doc looks amazing. Match listing looks ok and combined with Greatest Hits and Misses does give a decent account of his career


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Mainly buying the Foley set because of the doc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Disappointed with the Nash Youshoot DVD, nothing really came from it, he didnt seem bothered by most of it and more than often the answers was just short rebuffs, the skit at the bar was awkward i thought, the funniest part was probably that 'Little Iron Shiek' video, 

Oh and i like the pic of 'the boys' on the bus someone sent in...


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

*Rumble 2013*

Del Rio vs. Big Show - ***
Hell No vs. Rhodes/Sandow - **
Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4
Rock vs. Punk - **3/4

Nothing overly spectacular but I enjoyed it. Del Rio/Show was fine but the finish annoyed me. Prefer the SD match. Marked so hard for Jericho coming into the rumble since he's always been my favourite and i had no clue. Made the hassle of going unspoiled all day totally worth it. Godfather and Goldust/Cody were nice too. Really don't mind Cena winning. Thought it'd be him or Orton.

I got what Punk and Rock were going for and it did have a big feel, but the pacing was just totally off and I got bored every now and then. Plus Rock just shouting GTS at some point totally took me out of it. I'll admit the finish got me. With that said I'm still somewhat interested to see how Rock is handled as champion. As long as we get Rock/Cena/Punk at WM I'll be happy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Show was bad. It had an above average tag team match and about 3 surprises from a Rumble match.

Rest was an eyesore. If only Punk vs Rock was actually good. Then it wouldn't have been as poor on the whole. Could've been slapped with "decent". Can't say I found much entertainment from the event.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was entertained throughout even if some of the booking was predictable/puzzling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I marked major for Jericho & Goldust, Show's table spot that killed Del Rio, and the segments/moments that involved Hell No.

Rest was there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Table spot sounded so bad. Legit SPLAT. Del Rio died.

Jericho was an awesome surprise, as I'm sure everyone can agree. Goldust got a huge pop and GOLDUST chants/interaction with Cody were great. The final 3 in the Rumble took the wind out of my sails. Knew I wouldn't be thrilled with any of those 3.


----------



## darkclaudio (Feb 29, 2012)

WWE Royal Rumble 2013

0. US Championship Match: Antonio Cesaro (c) vs The Miz **
1. World Heavyweight Championship - Last Man Standing Match: Alberto Del Rio (c) vs The Big Show ***1/4
2. WWE Tag Team Championship Match: Team Hell No (Kane & Daniel Bryan) vs Rhodes Scholars (Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow) **
3. Royal Rumble Match ***
4. WWE Championship Match: CM Punk (c) vs The Rock ***1/4


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Cena's promo tonight leads me to believe we are going to be seeing Cena vs. Rock vs. Punk at 'Mania, with Cena going over both men. Meh, I guess it's better than Punk being in the mid-card with Undertaker. And hopefully this means we'll see Undertaker/Lesnar, which makes me :mark: just thinking about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Superstars 2010 - Top 20 Matches + A Little Something Extra (Year Long Review)​*

1) Dolph Ziggler vs Chris Masters ~ **** _(5/13)_

2) Drew McIntyre vs Chris Masters ~ **** _(8/26)_

3) Drew McIntyre vs Kaval ~ ***3/4 _(11/11)_

4) William Regal vs Goldust ~ ***3/4 _(8/26)_

5) Jack Swagger vs Kaval ~ ***3/4 _(11/4)_

6) Rey Mysterio vs Tyson Kidd ~ ***3/4 _(3/25)_

7) Christian vs William Regal ~ ***1/2 _(1/14)_

8) Rey Mysterio vs Mike Knox ~ ***1/2 _(2/18)_

9) Chris Masters vs Tyler Reks ~ ***1/2 _(12/30)_

10) William Regal vs David Hart Smith ~ ***1/2 _(12/30)_

11) Christian, Mark Henry, & Yoshi Tatsu vs William Regal, Jack Swagger, & Zack Ryder ~ ***1/4 _(3/8)_

12) Tyler Reks vs Trent Barreta ~ ***1/4 _(12/2)_

13) William Regal vs Goldust ~ ***1/4 _(9/23)_

14) William Regal vs Evan Bourne ~ ***1/4 _(3/4)_

15) William Regal vs Darren Young ~ ***1/4 _(10/21)_

16) Dave Finlay vs Mike Knox ~ ***1/4 _(1/7)_

17) The Hart Dynasty vs The Dudebusters ~ ***1/4 _(4/1)_

18) Tyson Kidd vs David Hart Smith ~ ***1/4 _(12/2)_

19) Evan Bourne vs Carlito Colon ~ *** _(2/4)_

20) Chris Jericho vs Goldust ~ *** _(3/4)_

-----------------

_Honorable Mentions_:

*(***)*

Christian vs Zack Ryder *(2/11)*, Hart Dynasty vs The Dudebusters *(4/29)*, Christian vs Dolph Ziggler _*(5/20)*_, Chris Jericho vs Yoshi Tatsu _*(7/15)*_, Hart Dynasty vs The Usos _*(7/22)*_, Goldust vs Ted Dibiase Jr *(9/2)*, William Regal vs Darren Young _*(10/7)*_, Cody Rhodes & Drew McIntyre vs Chris Masters & Montel Vontavious Porter _*(10/21)*_, & Curt Hawkins vs Trent Barreta _*(11/25)*_​
-------------​
*Top 5 Worst Matches of the Year​*

1) Kofi Kingston vs Trent Barreta ~ DUD _(6/17)_

2) Kofi Kingston vs Luke Gallows ~ DUD _(6/10)_

3) Shad Gaspard vs JTG ~ DUD _(5/6)_

4) John Morrison vs Carlito Colon ~ DUD _(4/22)_

5) Montel Vontavious Porter vs Chavo Guerrero Jr ~ DUD _(7/29)_


Avoid these bouts at all costs. Pure garbage. All of them.​
----------​
*Wrestler of the Year*: William Regal - With 7 out of 20 matches having him involved, no one should be surprised. He might not have secured the number one or two spots on the overall list, however his amazing consistency was ever prevalent here. The man pumped out so many damn great matches. With little time for a bulk of them too. Regal has been pimped on a daily basis by me and it's going to continue here. What he does in the ring is truly a work of art.

*MVP of the Year*: Chris Masters - Need I say more? This man SHINED on Superstars in 2010. From having the two stand out matches vs Dolph Ziggler and Drew McIntyre, to his impeccable selling making matches better than the original should be _(IE the tag with MVP vs Rhodes/McIntyre)_. Even when he got shoveled shit opponents he _still_ managed to give the bouts some form of substance. He worked his ass off in every match. Some didn't get listed here, but don't let that think he didn't give it his all. Matches vs Cody Rhodes, Vance Archer, another one vs Tyler Reks, vs Jack Swagger were all good matches. Short, but good. Bulk of his matches in 2010 were well worth viewing. _*(Goldust was a damn close second here. Have to give that man his due)*_

*Worst Wrestler of the Year*: Kofi Kingston - This guy legit only had about 5 matches on Superstars in 2010 and only ONE was decent. Rest were among some of the worst matches. And he was working against good talents too. The likes of Luke Gallows, Trent Barreta, & Jack Swagger. How his best match on this program was vs Chavo Guerrero, I'll never know.

*GTFO or Try Harder Award*: Montel Vontavious Porter, Chavo Guerrero, & Carlito Colon - Absolutely all 3 of these men deserve this award. Worked a good portion of matches on Superstars in 2010 and had little or nothing to show for it. They were all bland, bad, or flat out didn't care to work. Twats. It's a miracle Evan Bourne is superior worker and got Carlito to a super fun match. So fun it was worthy to make the top 20.

*We Hardly Knew Ye Award*: Dave Finlay - Only one match on Superstars. Was strong enough to make the Top 20. Never got another one the rest of the year.  The year was pretty great, but we needed you Finlay. Instead we got scrubs like JTG working 10 minute matches.

*Biggest Surprise of the Year*: Evan Bourne vs Carlito Colon from 2/4 being really good & Kofi Kingston vs Chavo Guerrero Jr from 9/2 actually being decent - No brainers here. Bourne vs Carlito WAS the lone biggest surprise for me. What a match. As I stated previous it was all kinds of fun. Reminded me of the old cruiserweight matches from WCW. Really was digging it. Carlito's best match since...jeez maybe ever. The second match has to share the honors. It might not have been anything overly special, however the fact that it wasn't a steaming pile of mediocre workers was nearly unbelievable. Both men worked and injured the knees during the match. The selling was actually done. Fairly well too. They must have been watching Chris Masters matches.

*Show of the Year*: August 26 *(William Regal vs Goldust II, Dudebusters vs Gatecrashers II, & Drew McIntyre vs Chris Masters)* & December 30 *(The Usos vs Yoshi Tatsu & Darren Young, William Regal vs David Hart Smith, & Chris Masters vs Tyler Reks)*

*Worst Show of the Year*: May 6 *(Carlito Colon vs Primo Colon, Chris Masters vs Chavo Guerrero Jr, Beth Phoenix vs Rosa Mendes, & Shad Gaspard vs JTG)*


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Cena's promo tonight leads me to believe we are going to be seeing Cena vs. Rock vs. Punk at 'Mania, with Cena going over both men. Meh, I guess it's better than Punk being in the mid-card with Undertaker. And hopefully this means we'll see Undertaker/Lesnar, which makes me :mark: just thinking about it.


I take this back. Punk to lose to Rock at EC. Vince gets his oh so precious Rock vs. Cena II.

@HayleySabin, thanks for posting that, actually. I haven't seen much of any Superstars matches. I'm sure to check some of those out now.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

So I finally watched the Regal/Finlay match last night from Uncensored. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THOUGHTS? :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Really, really enjoyed it. I was drunk too, so I probaly enjoyed it even more. 

:mark:
WHats your star rating?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, damn. Those two SMASHING each other while drunk has to be godly.

****3/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

My original rating was **** 1/2 - **** 3/4. I might watch it sober.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

Def worth seeing multiple times. If you didn't get the gist of it, my lengthy post about Superstars was really another excuse for me to put over Regal & Finlay.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nice Superstars list @ Cody. I think you're underselling Chavo, though (like every human pretty much ever does :side. I thought the Chavo/Masters match from August was fucking great and easily one of the best Superstars matches. I liked Chavo's year overall. Hell, I like Chavo overall.

Glad to see you give the Ki/McIntyre match its dues. When it first happened it seemed like I was the only one who watched it and those who watched it didn't like it as much as the four minute match they had on SmackDown. I gotta watch Ki/Swagger; I don't remember that at all.

William Fucking Regal, btw.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I give that Brock Lesnar F5 to Vince McMahon ★★★★★ :mark:

Hate how we're getting Lesnar/HHH II though :no:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

There has to be no doubt now that we'll be seeing Rock/Cena, Punk/Taker and Lesnar/Haitch. 

Ew.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Exactly. Not pumped for ANY of those matches. Rock/Punk/Cena and Lesnar/Taker though...:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Masters vs Chavo from 8/12 didn't do too much for me outside of Master's constant great selling. So, it can be in that general pile of solid/good Masters matches that were scattered throughout the year. My outlook towards Chavo certainly isn't on the levels of Cal or VIVA. I do get frustrated when he gives me crap though. Like vs MVP. Oof, that match was all off. Even his rolling Liger kick _(which is something I mark for) _came off bad. I'll always take him over Kofi, MVP, Carlito, & JTG aka the dregs that were a part of Superstars in 2010. So, he'll get some due from me there.

I knew I was going to love Ki vs McIntyre. No way I'd leave disappointed by it and I wasn't. Ki vs Swagger was right behind it in terms of quality. The only negative I had with the match was Swagger winning via Ankle Lock despite no real ankle work being done in the bout. It's a immensely painful move however, so I can understand some logic behind it. Chavo as the SWAGGER SOARING EAGLE is ringside for the bout + comes into play for the finish. Points for that too.

Regal. The king.

Oh, you know what match from that year I loved despite only being around 2 minutes? Kane vs Mike Knox. Awesome little _(ha)_ SLUGFEST. Don't get me started on criminal aspects of time. Goldust vs Knox & Gallows vs Archer were both WAYYYY too short, but had the signs of being really good if they had at least 5 minutes to produce something. I'll salivate at the thought of 8-10 minutes. Why WWE did WWE have to let them go? </3


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

:mark: indeed. Especially Undertaker/Lesnar.

It's all just a dream now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, no surprises here. If there was any small possibility in my mind that Lesnar/HHH II wasn't happening, it's crushed now. Such a shame because it's a match with no interest and will be overshadowed by the bigger rematch of Rock/Cena. Not to mention this means we're probably getting Taker/Punk, which is fine, but still not as good as Taker/Lesnar, Taker/Cena, or even Taker/Rock. That or we won't see Taker at all, and if Taker's not at Mania and those two rematches are happening, forget maybe not going to Mania, it'd be a definite. I can wait a year and cover the extra travel costs I wouldn't have to worry about this year for WM30 to witness a hopefully much more promising card with a potential Taker/Cena and Rock/Lesnar match, or even just Taker/Lesnar.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think you're underselling Chavo, though (like every human pretty much ever does :side.


Like the Hurricane says, what's up with that? There's so much Chavo hate around this thread, it caught me by surprise.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Whew, did I luck out. I came so close to buying WM tickets because I live 15 minutes away from Giants Stadium. Something was telling me not to do it, and boy does it look like the right decision. Thank God.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Whew, did I luck out. I came so close to buying WM tickets because I live 15 minutes away from Giants Stadium. Something was telling me not to do it, and boy does it look like the right decision. Thank God.


I still feel something big is gonna happen come Mania.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Legit post, Cody. Going to have to check some of those matches out, particularly the ones involving Chris THE GOAT Masters. However, I refuse to believe that JoMo was involved in one of the worst matches. 

edit You're 15 mins away from Mania and you're not going? 

edit2 Always hated Chavo. Guy just never did anything for me. He's as dull and useless as a handjob.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I marked out when Cena won the Rumble. It was mainly because Ryback didn't win but I was still happy. 

I enjoyed Punk/Rock until the stupid ending. I was ok with Rock winning but not that way. It did produce an awesome promo from Punk on Raw though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Legit post, Cody. Going to have to check some of those matches out, particularly the ones involving Chris THE GOAT Masters. However, I refuse to believe that JoMo was involved in one of the worst matches.
> 
> edit You're 15 mins away from Mania and you're not going?
> 
> edit2 Always hated Chavo. Guy just never did anything for me. He's as dull and useless as a handjob.


Blame Carlito for the match being awful. Morrison had a tough load to work with. 

Yeah, I reccommend all 20, but since you've got less time to kill than myself, going with the Masters matches are a must. All kinds of fun and well, well worth the watch. Make some time for Regal if you can too.






Dolph/Masters begins @ 32:10 :mark:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

HEYMAN

Now that guy is a performer. On a different level last night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed. I had to stop and comment during that segment about how much I LOVE Paul's work. On a promo partially about lying, he makes you believe. 

Wonderful.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> There has to be no doubt now that we'll be seeing Rock/Cena, Punk/Taker and Lesnar/Haitch.
> 
> Ew.


Punk will be coming off the back of two losses to The Rock and challenges Undertaker? I don't get it, I just don't. Surely, surely they've thought about how daft that sounds.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The reasoning could be along the lines of _"Punk's over the edge and wants to make a statement that he's the BITW. Statement: challenge the Undertaker & try to end the streak come WrestleMania."_

I'd buy it. I'm _very_ biased towards the scenario though.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk loses at EC. Is devastated. Says the only way to redeem his failings is to do something bigger then hold the belt for over 400 days. End the Streak.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

The Rock vs. Punk could end in a DQ and we still have Rock vs.Cena vs.Punk at Wreslemania 29.I just hope that HHH/Lesnar doesn't happen at Wrestlemania and we get Taker/Lesnar instead.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was going to mini-review all of RAW. Not worth it. The only good parts came from angles as opposed to matches. Except for...

*Tables Match*

Sheamus vs Damien Sandow ~ ***1/4​

:mark: Sheamus + Sandow = GOOD MATCHES. That could be said as Sheamus SWAG in general. Really, really nicely worked little tables match here. Got 7 minutes and they utilized that very well. Sheamus' injury coming into play from the previous Shield assault was a nice touch. I didn't expect Sheamus to work following it. Let alone have the only good match on the night. Possibly of the entire week within WWE. Really strong job by both men and if anything should be viewed from this week that didn't include BROCK or the entire Heyman final segment, it was definitely this match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DA BROCKTAGON returns. I didn't think it would happen but Brock/Trips seems pretty certain after the attack on Vince. Unless Trips calls on Taker to do the job for him instead. I'm still not fully sold on Brock/HHH for one reason and that was Cena's promo. He definitely teased a triple threat with what he said about Rock and Punk. Beating Rock and Punk at the same time would send the CeNation into overdrive. Besides, Punk/Taker would be a joke. Punk can't win a match without help, he loses to Rock, he loses to Rock again and then he goes to fight Undertaker at Wrestlemania? Ha. Horrible program. Besides, Punk is a reality based character while Taker is still a fantasy based character. It just isn't going to work or mix well imo. We'll see. For now though...

:brock :brock :brock :brock :brock

And yes, Sandow/Seamus was a great match. Guys have chemistry.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I must say, WWE is doing an awesome job of keeping The Shield looking strong. (Y)

Until Cena beats them in a 3 on 1 in a week or two.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *Unless Trips calls on Taker to do the job for him instead*.


Plus HHH was the one who said at the Slammy's "you haven't seen the last of the Undertaker".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I take this back. Punk to lose to Rock at EC. Vince gets his oh so precious Rock vs. Cena II.
> 
> @HayleySabin, thanks for posting that, actually. I haven't seen much of any Superstars matches. I'm sure to check some of those out now.


Just saw this. No problem. Always nice to get the word out on some lost treasures. Superstars in 2010 certainly had it's share. Thinking about going on and doing Superstars for 2011 next. If not another complete year from 2010. Possibly Smackdown due to the fact that I know I'll be getting Punk vs Mysterio matches with the addition of the excellent Christian vs McIntyre series.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Rock/Cena/Punk will happen at Mania, I reckon. All three have backstories between each others.

Lesnar/Hunter II is fpalm

Hunter is fpalm


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cody, that Superstars list OWNS. (Y)

I remember loving the Kaval matches late that year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CODY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Cody, that Superstars list OWNS. (Y)
> 
> I remember loving the Kaval matches late that year.




Bet it makes you want to dust off the ol collection and relive a few, eh? _(oh I was so ecstatic when I discovered WWE posted all of them via youtube haha)_

Yeah, his matches rock. If I make the rounds on NXT down the line I can see if any of his matches there were fun. At least he managed to get some memorable bouts during his stint in 2010. Always can use plenty of Low Ki in my life.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

robertdeniro said:


> Plus HHH was the one who said at the Slammy's "you haven't seen the last of the Undertaker".


Who the hell knows? My whole attitude towards Mania this year is to just let it all play out. I'm not going to get annoyed or any of that. I'm going to go with the flow and try to enjoy it instead of ruining it for myself. Besides, Rock/Cena II surely can't be worse that it was last year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Who the hell knows? My whole attitude towards Mania this year is to just let it all play out. I'm not going to get annoyed or any of that. I'm going to go with the flow and try to enjoy it instead of ruining it for myself. *Besides, Rock/Cena II surely can't be worse that it was last year*.


.....I don't know about that. :hayley2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BORK


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Who the hell knows? My whole attitude towards Mania this year is to just let it all play out. I'm not going to get annoyed or any of that. I'm going to go with the flow and try to enjoy it instead of ruining it for myself. Besides, Rock/Cena II surely can't be worse that it was last year.


I will be annoyed if Lesnar/HHH and Taker/Punk happened.It should be Rock vs.Cena vs.Punk and Taker vs.Lesnar,HHH can FUCK OFF  .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> .....I don't know about that. :hayley2


There's always a chance lol. I don't think there'll be any Rock concerts or rap battles or twitter wars this time though. They did that already and their first match was the big icon vs. icon, sports entertainment extravaganza type of match. This time it will be about the title, about Rock wanting to keep it and Cena trying to avenge his loss a year ago. I don't think it will be the same. I'm praying it's not.


----------



## OldschoolHero (Sep 1, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Who the hell knows? My whole attitude towards Mania this year is to just let it all play out. I'm not going to get annoyed or any of that. I'm going to go with the flow and try to enjoy it instead of ruining it for myself. Besides, Rock/Cena II surely can't be worse that it was last year.


I agree. Everyones already saying Vince is going to call on Trips to take out Brock...wwe could swerve us and have it be Undertaker. Rock/Cena 2 isnt something I wouldnt mind really but Id like for there to be something more to it. Throw in Punk and make it a triple threat elimination. Have Cena turn heel during or something. For those saying you cant turn Cena heel because there would be no top face, I call that bullshit. Ryback,Sheamus and if need be you could turn Punk face in an instant.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ditto on the fingers crossed. Once was enough. I got a kick out of some John-boy moments, not too many from Rocky. I'll enjoy the slow burn towards WM with Punker still in the hunt for EC. After that idk what to expect. The same or something a bit different? Who knows at this point.

Oh, and Undertaker to be the avenger for the WWE vs Brock. Oh, PLEASE. Only, that leaves Punk in the dust unless he joins Cena vs Rock. So many decisions here among the same 6 workers. I don't know what the hell is going to happen. That's why I generally don't guess as it is.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock/Cena II
Brock/HHH II
Punk/Taker 

OR

Rock/Cena/Punk
Brock/Taker
HHH/Shield

Those are the 2 potential cards we're looking at here imo. God knows where we're going to end up lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HHH vs Shield? That one came from left field. If Game isn't duking it out vs Brock, I'd doubt he would work vs anyone. Let alone those 3.

I've gone and contradicted myself by slating I think The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback, & Orton is/has been a lock for WrestleMania.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

If the feud moves away from who is the bigger showman to being around the title , Rock/Cena could be passable. 

At the very least the title will be in the main event as will the rumble winner, thats a good thing in my view. Whether they keep the prestige built up after WM is the real question.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> HHH vs Shield? That one came from left field. If Game isn't duking it out vs Brock, I'd doubt he would work vs anyone. Let alone those 3.
> 
> I've gone and contradicted myself by slating I think* The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback, & Orton is/has been a lock for WrestleMania.*


I feel there's a big chance of this happening.

On HHH: I kept insisting that HHH wasn't going to be at 'Mania, but the Brock/Vince segment last night makes it really look like that is the case. Unless of course Vince calls on 'Taker - seems unlikely though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> HHH vs Shield? That one came from left field. If Game isn't duking it out vs Brock, I'd doubt he would work vs anyone. Let alone those 3.
> 
> I've gone and contradicted myself by slating I think The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback, & Orton is/has been a lock for WrestleMania.


King and Cole were really selling the fact of nobody being able to take down the Shield after their beat down. Like REALLY selling it. Somebody has to stop these guys, can they be stopped, can anybody stop them etc etc. If Taker fights Brock that leaves HHH without a match. Who better to step in and form a team or something that Trips I guess? That was my thinking with that. Either that or he just doesn't have a match. 

It's funny lol. You tell yourself you aren't going to speculate and then you go and speculate like mad. We're all doing it. Whatever happens, happens though. All the whining in the world isn't going to change it so like the good little fan I am, I'm just going to accept it and live a happy life during this RTWM. It will be much less painful than getting annoyed and ultimately ruining it for myself. That's my plan no matter what the card ends up looking like.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck yes, fuck yes - Brock is back baby!!! : Shame we'll get the inevitable HHH  rematch though, i didnt actually mind the SS match, not as good as i was expecting (or maybe i was kinda expecting a different sorta match), but a rematch IMHO id pointless, 

Nothing to do with Haitch's hair lol (i know it will look daft in the ring, but as long he gets his win, he probably aint bothered).

But IF, and i say IF, Brock has re-signed for more years, at least we'll get some different fueds outta him,

Oh, did Brock look a bit more..........toned down (i mean in muscle), seemed a tad slimmer to me.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

HHH is clearly following Undertaker's logic of cutting your hair after a beating (WM27/SS) can lead to a victory in the following match.

We will see clips of Hunter cutting his hair in the coming weeks.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I would just like to point out Sheamus vs Sandow from RAW last night. What a really good tables match with some innovation to it. I haven't seen much table matches (they're all pretty crappy imo anyway lol) but from the few that I've seen I don't think I've ever seen anyone do the spot Sandow did where he placed Sheamus' arm between the folding leg and stomped on it.

With that being said, there's something I've been noticing for quite some time now. Sandow is one of the best damn psychologists in the business today.

Oh yeah and can someone please explain that BORK joke?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

If Triple H doesn't face Brock, then I'd like to see him as special guest referee in a Brock vs. Undertaker match.

Another solution, although far fetched, is Triple H brings HBK out of retirement for one night inly and they have a standard (DQs and countouts) match with The Shield at Wrestlemania. They could team with Ryback while Sheamus and Orton face each other.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I want Brock/Taker HIAC II.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really hope Orton doesn't get stuck in a stupid tag team match with The Shield. Hopefully he wins the belt at Elimination Chamber and goes to defend it at WM.

Oh yeah, and BORK IZ BACK! Also Heyman is as good as Foley when it comes to making you believe what he says. I was laughing at the "that wasn't me" statement at first but by the end of it I got so into it I almost believed him, lol.

Even though I was against it before, I actually am willing to accept Rock/Cena/Punk at WM with Taker's opponent being Brock. Still would prefer Rock/Cena II and Taker/Brock.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For us UK'ers, Elimination Chamber is on Sky Sports again this year (FFS give us Lesnar/HHH here if we have to have a rematch, instead of Mania).


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> *For us UK'ers, Elimination Chamber is on Sky Sports again this year* (FFS give us Lesnar/HHH here if we have to have a rematch, instead of Mania).


That's great, no need to pay or watch on a stream.

And yes, if we have to have Lesnar/HHH put it on EC! Don't waste a spot at 'Mania with it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I stil have a feeling that we will see Taker/Cena match at WM this year


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Based on the way things are looking right now, WM is just BLARGH for me. I hope shit gets changed around come EC and they give me something interesting.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Based on the way things are looking right now, WM is just BLARGH for me. I hope shit gets changed around come EC and they give me something interesting.


I am still hoping for

Punk/Cena/Rock after Punk beats Rock at EC and Rock gets his rematch.
Brock/Taker after HHH gets Taker as he knows he can't beat Brock, but Taker can.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2013*
Cesaro/Miz pre-show: **1/2
ADR/Show: ***1/2
THN/RS: **3/4
RR Match: ***3/4
Rock/Punk: ***3/4

Nothing truly bad on this show I presume, although the booking was absolutely atrocious in my view (Cesaro going over Miz was the only truly right call IMO). ADR winning with DUCT TAPE R U SERIOUS wasn't horrible but wasn't too pretty either, THN retaining didn't really make sense, RR Match was good but Cena winning sucked ass, and Rock/Punk's result wasn't as infuriating as finish itself (1 People's Elbow and Punk's dead already? Really?!). Still, the matches were good, so yeah, not complaing too much.

Hoping Rock/Punk II at EC spawns a Triple Threat with Cena. I DO NOT want Rock/Cena II - Hell, I want Rock/Cena II a lot less than HHH/Lesnar II.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Re-watched the Rumble. After the first live viewing I had it at like ****1/2 because I was still marking. After watching it again, it didn't hold up to that standard but it was still a super fun match. I'd go ****** for it now. I guess I added the 1/2* for the markout and nostalgia factor lol.

*Rumble - ****
Rock/Punk - ***1/2*

Thoughts on the Rock/Punk rematch now that it's official? I don't see anything other than a clean win happening this time tbh. I'm glad the EC is free on Sky Sports because I wouldn't have been buying it. I'll keep my money for Mania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Thoughts on the Rock/Punk rematch now that it's official? I don't see anything other than a clean win happening this time tbh. I'm glad the EC is free on Sky Sports because I wouldn't have been buying it. I'll keep my money for Mania.


I hope Rock beats him completely clean and moves on to Cena/Rock II with the promo content changed this time around. But I can see it being an unclean finish leading to a triple threat at WM where Cena finally becomes champion again. Or worst of the worst, they play hot potato with the title again and give it back to Punk in a dirty way and the triple threat is on for WM where Cena wins.

I think it's fucking shit that despite having only so many matches left in him, Rock wastes two of them in rematches.

On another note, just finished watching this awesome JBL/Stone Cold segment from SNME 06.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rock/Punk/Cena is definitely the better choice for the WWE Title match IMO. Though if Lesnar/Taker was to be done as well, I think that should be the WM ME, no matter how predictable it is. Nothing is more important than The Streak in this point of the journey.

Doin' a 2012 PPV match ranking project, based on the star rankings I gave every match previously


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm with Cal on WM at the moment. No form of Rock/Cena or Rock/Cena/Punk interests me that much. Taker/Brock could be cool. No interest in a HHH/Brock. Shield vs Ryback/Orton/Sheamus could absolutely own. And then anything on the undercard I can forget about because it won't get much time anyway.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well, I hope for a good Cesaro match too. A match with Jericho would be pretty good, but I don't think it will happen


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2009 RR re-sparked my love of wrestling. 2013 RR seems to have killed me off a bit. Still not as bad as one of the TNA PPV's last year where I actually avoided anything wrestling related for an entire week (which is like, a billion years in CAL WRESTLING years ).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Maybe HHH and New Age Out Laws (as DX) against The Shield? If not that and they want to keep Ryback in the mix, then HHH, Ryback, and someone else as I'm certain Randy and Sheamus are facing each other. Hell, knowing WWE, they may just throw in Del Rio if they go that route since they love trying to force him as much as possible in any role, and him in that match would be bigger than any World Title match he'd be a part of.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> I am still hoping for
> 
> Punk/Cena/Rock after Punk beats Rock at EC and Rock gets his rematch.
> Brock/Taker after HHH gets Taker as he knows he can't beat Brock, but Taker can.


Thing with that is, would HHH want to look 'weak' in that way, as in "I can't beat Brock, but I know a man who can"?

Or maybe he will just admit defeat and take it like a man lol!!!

I kinda think if HHH wants to be back involved, he should maybe deal with The Shield in some way...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why are people throwing HHH into the mix w/The Shield? Clearly it's Orton/Sheamus/Ryback that have the issue with them at the moment.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't expect Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Ryback to happen. If anything, it'll be Shield vs Ryback, Rey & Sin Cara IMO (makes sense since Rey & Cara were kayfabe sent to injury because of The Shield). I expect Orton's turning heel and that he will face Sheamus at WM instead.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well, if that's the case, I hope Shield destroys that team.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Is it possible that we'll get Hunter/lesnar 2 at EC which then sets up Taker/Lesnar for Mania?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Orton's heel turn is imminent but it seems like it may happen after 'Mania now (perhaps at 'Mania?), so a match with Ryback/Sheamus against The Shield still seems possible.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Possible (and I'd prefer that), but I still can't picture HHH wrestling without hair.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Why are people throwing HHH into the mix w/The Shield?


Because he's The Game.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

Big Z said:


> 2009 RR re-sparked my love of wrestling. 2013 RR seems to have killed me off a bit. *Still not as bad as one of the TNA PPV's last year where I actually avoided anything wrestling related for an entire week* (which is like, a billion years in CAL WRESTLING years ).


Was it No Surrender, Cal?


----------



## djmathers1207 (Sep 9, 2011)

Who has the new Raw and Smackdown 2012 DVD? I heard it's worth getting for the Punk/Bryan match from Raw


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Because he's The Game.


As much as I love HHH, I don't really see a spot for him on the card this year. It won't really feel like Mania to me without him, but aside from HHH/BROCK II, Idk where he'll fit in.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> As much as I love HHH, I don't really see a spot for him on the card this year. It won't really feel like Mania to me without him, but aside from HHH/BROCK II, Idk where he'll fit in.


Someone mentioned as a special referee for Lesnar/Taker if it happened?

I'm with you though, HHH will compete again but it shouldn't be at WM29. They can build a good card without him, and he should rest up and then he can perhaps have a match at WM30.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Him being in Taker's corner for Brock/Taker works for me. If Brock is sticking around for 2 more years, he really doesn't need to eat a loss against HHH. Losing to Taker @ Mania won't hurt him, but he needs to remain as badass as possible from a booking perspective.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> As much as I love HHH, I don't really see a spot for him on the card this year. It won't really feel like Mania to me without him, but aside from HHH/BROCK II, Idk where he'll fit in.


He's The Game. He's gonna make himself fit in where you least expect him to, lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Redwood Raven said:


> Was it No Surrender, Cal?


Honestly don't remember lol. Was NS the show before BFG?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SD! tapings are in San Diego tonight?!? Fuck...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> SD! tapings are in San Diego tonight?!? Fuck...


Is there some sort of relevance to this that I'm not getting?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I live in San Diego


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh ok. Not like you'd be missing much . SD is basically a C show these days anyway. And with the RTWM getting off to an utter shite start, I don't expect SD to get any better these days .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You're probably right (and I don't even watch SD! on TV), but I typically try to make it to a show if it's in my area. I bet there are plenty of seats still available lol.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Right Now i have watched Undertaker vs Kane, from Night of Champions 2010. I can only give it **, don't remember it being so bad. They only traded punches the whole match, and the No Hold Barred stipualtion was used very little


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked that match. *** for it, the only match worth seeing in their 2010 feud (which as a FEUD I adored, but their HIAC and BA matches blew, Undertaker getting injured didn't help). I liked that they just spend the match punching the fuck out of each other lol.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Right Now i have watched Undertaker vs Kane, from Night of Champions 2010. I can only give it **, don't remember it being so bad. They only traded punches the whole match, and the No Hold Barred stipualtion was used very little


I remember that match. Intensely boring.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There are front row seats on the TV side available. Might need to do it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Didn't think Kane/Taker NOC 2010 was that boring. Meh, but not terrible IMO.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the show from 2009 Cal hates so much is Victory Road (SHARMELL VS JENNA MORASCA)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Which PPV is that finisher fest between ANGEL and JEFF? Gotta watch that match. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Didn't think Kane/Taker NOC 2010 was that boring. Meh, but not terrible IMO.
> 
> Oh, and I'm pretty sure the show from 2009 Cal hates so much is Victory Road (SHARMELL VS JENNA MORASCA)


2009? I said LAST YEAR .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

ATF said:


> Didn't think Kane/Taker NOC 2010 was that boring. Meh, but not terrible IMO.
> 
> Oh, and I'm pretty sure the show from 2009 Cal hates so much is Victory Road (SHARMELL VS JENNA MORASCA)


Just hate punch fests between two big men. A good cure for insomnia for me


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Finally finished my 2012 WWE PPV match ranking:



> 1. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 28 (*****)
> 2. Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena, Extreme Rules (*****)
> 3. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Over The Limit (****3/4)
> 4. Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan, Extreme Rules (****3/4)
> ...


:genius


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*CM Punk v The Rock - Royal Rumble (1/27/13)*
I thought this could have been great, at the very least good. It was not. Off the top of my head I can't think of a more disappointing big time main event since HHH/Orton at Wrestlemania 25. It failed on so many levels. For long stretches it's slow and boring. No idea how someone can dislike HHH/Lesnar and then appreciate the injury work and selling in this. Trips/Brock is a far better example of two guys focusing on weaknesses and selling them well, and that match also had a lot more intensity and a better finish. This was sloppy at times, the table break (not their fault I know but still) ruined what was supposed to be the biggest spot in the match, and the finishing stretch was straight up garbage. It's more understandable now that I know they're having a rematch at Elimination Chamber but still, this could have and should have been so much better. My favorite part was Punk's expressions and acting after the lights out attack. Punk sold his knee injury well as you'd expect but why did he keep going for high risk offense? And he kind of blew off the selling after the restart. Didn't think there was anyway they'd have a worse match than Rock/Cena, but they did. Bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 Kane matches?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bad Blood '04 v Benoit is his best and a legit GREAT match. Can't think of too many others that are really outstanding. Probably something from his series with Mysterio. I remember liking their matches together. One of the Undertaker matches must be good (right?) and I liked his work with Cena and Orton last year. Thought last year was his best in-ring year in forever. He looked rejuvenated and sharper and generally better.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep, the Benoit match must be his best one. Most of the Taker matches have been pretty dull, SummerSlam 00 was short and fun, though. And for what it's worth, I really enjoyed the Unforgiven 2000 four way with ROCK, Benoit and Undertaker. 

Was his First Blood match with Austin any good?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

In terms of SNOWFLAKEZ~! it may not be one of his best, but in terms of pure FUN, then his matches against Shane'o must be brought up. I can remember really liking a match of his with Jericho as well in 2000.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> In terms of SNOWFLAKEZ~! it may not be one of his best, but in terms of pure FUN, then his matches against Shane'o must be brought up. *I can remember really liking a match of his with Jericho as well in 2000*.


The Last Man Standing at Armageddon 2000? If so, then I agree that is a top match and one of my favourite Kane matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Kane?

Vs Undertaker WM 14
Vs Benoit BB 04
Vs Benoit Raw 28/06/2004
w/Undertaker Vs Austin & HHH BL 01
Vs Undertaker Smackdown 08/04/2008

A lot of his high rated matches for me are multiman tags or RR matches, and he isn't exactly the driving factor to those matches being great, except for the 01 RR match. Hell, would probably stick that in his top 5 above the Benoit Raw match and Undertaker SD match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Triple H & John Cena vs Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton & Kurt Angle (Saturday Night's Main Event 2006) - ★★★
- Pretty fun tag match. Gets enough time for such a random side-show and we see some interesting match-ups like Rey & Trips going at it for a short period, Angle wrestling Trips for the first time since 2002 and the rare Cena/Rey interaction. Everyone does their part and it's very entertaining. Ending also plays up to the heel/face dynamics that were broken with this main event vs main event match-up. Orton and Trips turn on their team but Cena somehow gets the victory after everyone hits everyone with finishers.


Even though I'm a bit late... now watching Raw after SNME and holy fuck, FUCK YOU VINCE. This feud with Shawn Michaels is the most painful piece of trash I've ever put up with. I have to skip most of the segments every week of the show and the Spirit Squad are only adding more annoyance to this boring piece of shit angle. It just SUCKS and like most fantasy feuds where there's a friendship backstage (*cough* HHH/HBK) it's extremely forced and doesn't even have a purpose. Vince, take your "Zero Tolerance" shove it inside your broken pelvis!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's a multi-man match but the TLC 6-man vs Shield is up there for KANE matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Kane NOC 2010- *** Good match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is a pretty good Kane/Angle match on Smackdown from 2001:

(Smackdown 11/1/01)






and also a decent Smackdown match with Albert from 2001 too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've gotta say, this thread might be the only tolerable place on this forum right now.

And just watched Henry/Show from Vengeance '11. ***1/2 and a really fun match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2 Kane/Albert matches in 01 are pretty awesomely fun.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Is one of them when Kane does a huracanrana?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> 2 Kane/Albert matches in 01 are pretty awesomely fun.


Indeed mate, one of em features a huricanrana from Kane 

EDIT - Yeah Brye!!!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I wouldn't watch that Taker/Kane match again if someone paid me. Unless it was for ALOT of money.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You mean a... HuriKANErana, right? Right? Huh? Huh?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> There is a pretty good Kane/Angle match on Smackdown from 2001:
> 
> (Smackdown 11/1/01)


Is it the one where Kane taps out?



Brye said:


> I've gotta say, this thread might be the only tolerable place on this forum right now.


I'm surprised trolling in this thread has been nonexistent. Glad there's a proper place to discuss wrestling without bullshit taking over. And this forum would have been 10 times more boring had I not entered this place.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Is it the one where Kane taps out?


Yeah, pretty sure it is mate, Kane does escape several attemps of the ankle lock beforehand though..


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I wouldn't watch that Taker/Kane match again if someone paid me. Unless it was for ALOT of money.


Taker vs Kane at the Hell in a Cell PPV that year was MUCM, much worse in comparison. In fact, I think it's their worst match together. That match was extremely boring.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

i discorvered on sunday that skybet take bets on wrestling....pretty dumb on their part because there's good old sgt.pepper out here ready to take all their money by putting a cool £10 on Ryback winning the rumble at 9/4. 

Fuck you Vince, give me my money back and give Punk back his title.

Del rio vs. Show ***
Hell no vs. Scholers **3/4
Punk vs. Rock ***
Rumble ***

That's the first time in a long time that i've rated something so i may have massively overrated it or underrated it but from what i remember wrestling looked like...that is how i saw the night. 
3/10
Hello, by the way...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

PEPPER! Hey .

LOL you bet on Ryback? Fool. I bet on Cena . Though I did also bet on Punk... but whatever . I also bet on Del Rio. Paddypower.com has been doing bets on wrestling for around a year now I think.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

It's weird that the Rumble can look pretty good on paper with some people's starz (3 *** matches, one being a Rumble) and yet hating it so much.




murder said:


> Is it possible that we'll get Hunter/lesnar 2 at EC which then sets up Taker/Lesnar for Mania?


Honestly..no. Punk/Rock, Trips/Brock AND one, maybe two Elimination Chambers? In our dreams.

The only hope is Trips says he isn't ready to face Lesnar but he knows somebody who is..GONG


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

haribo said:


> It's weird that the Rumble can look pretty good on paper with some people's starz (3 *** matches, one being a Rumble) and yet hating it so much.


I think because maybe i expected at least a **** out or Punk and Rock...maybe i'm just naive.

Hey cal, smart move on Cena for your part, I just thought that maybe the 'E would keep on giving us new winners of the Rumble and putting them on first at mania, but again, that's my naivety kicking in!

Have you won quite a bit of money off paddy power? It must be fairly easy considering how easy it can be prediction wrestling matches on MOST occasions.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That TLC match this past month has to be a top 5 Kane match. I bet most consider it his best match now. Other than that he has the two Benoit matches in 2004, and the Taker matches at Mania 98 & SD 4/4/08. What else has he done that's better than "pretty good"? The Albert matches were pretty fucking awesome. Matt Hardy carried the shit out of him a couple of times. I liked some of the Finlay matches. Rey got some good stuff out of him. Not top 5 stuff, though. He really hasn't had a lot of very good matches has he? 



The Lady Killer said:


> There are front row seats on the TV side available. Might need to do it.


I'l watch the SmackDown show if you are in the audience. Shit, EVERYONE should. TLK is a bigger draw than Randy Orton.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I personally haven't won much, I usually end up with my money back because I lose one, and some of them are obvious even to Paddy Power so you only get like an extra £1 on top of what you bet . Doesn't help that I only bet around £5 per match cos I'm BROKE. Seabs wins a lot though. Bastard.


----------



## BrosOfDestruction (Feb 1, 2012)

Kane/Test NM 01 is pretty good.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm still pissed at how bad the Rumble was. Fuck.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't get the negativity at all. Enjoyed the show a lot personally. And Rock/Punk is a lot better than most say IMO. Remove the stupid restart part, have Rock win clean and I would give it ★★★★.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm about to watch it again. Gotta review it and shit I guess. Plus I need to talk about it in my RR special video that I need to record tomorrow .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't get the negativity at all. Enjoyed the show a lot personally. And Rock/Punk is a lot better than most say IMO. Remove the stupid restart part, have Rock win clean and I would give it ★★★★.


I'm willing to give Punk/Rock a re-watch but I really don't want to. Thought it was slow, boring and horribly booked. I can't comprehend how a match like CM Punk v The Rock can have ZERO good nearfalls.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'l watch the SmackDown show if you are in the audience. Shit, EVERYONE should. TLK is a bigger draw than Randy Orton.


I'm seriously considering it. Front row seats would be pretty legit.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

If you do, i will watch my first smackdown in months.

THE LADY KILLER = RATINGZ


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Also, the blatant spot calling in Punk/Rock was (N)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm surprised Rock didn't have the match written on his arms 8*D.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

And at least Cena/Rock felt somewhat epic. This did not. Maybe I'm being overly critical in calling it a bad match. I don't think it was horrible but all things considered I was massively disappointed. If I still used star ratings it would be in the **1/2-**3/4 range.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The venue SD is being held at says the show starts at 7 PM, but I thought they tape like 5 different shows prior? 

edit Agreed, the match definitely didn't live up to its hype for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What an awesome TV match! Also the bloody eye = brutal! ★★★¼


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I currently have Rock/Cena at **3/4. I'll see what I give Punk/Rock in a bit, just got to the RR match for my review. Show has NOT been good so far. I already knew that of course .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I was enjoying the Rumble match itself early on with Jericho and Goldust, then I got incredibly bored. Thought it dragged for a while up until the final six, which wasn't anything special either.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just not enough star power imo. When you think of the only possible winners - Orton, Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Ziggler, and the surprise being Jericho - there really isn't much room for excitement, especially since Orton/Cena/Sheamus have all won the event already.


----------



## holy (Apr 9, 2008)

Some observations about WWE from 2003 (when i started watching) compared to 10 ten years later (2013)....

Back in 2003, there used to be Goldberg who would come out and say "YOUUUR NEEXT!" and spear the fuck out of his enemy. Now, 10 years later, there is a guy named Ryback, a Goldberg-wannabe who says "feed me more" fpalm

Back in 2003, I used to see "tale of the tape" for a big match like Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (on a smackdown). Now, 10 years later, there is a tale of the tape for John Cena and......Flinstone (wtf was that last night?!) fpalm

Back in 2003, on Raw Roulette, there was a cage match, a street fight, a singapore cane match. Now in 2013, on raw roulette, there is Tensai dressed in a lingerie (or whatever the fuck he was wearing) dancing.


(Yes, this is my random return to the forum. I don't know how many of you remember me, but just remember as the guy with the weird random username (holy) :lol)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Do you guys think they brought Jericho out too early? I mean at the time it was great, I was shocked as I'm sure everyone was - plus obviously him and Ziggles have kayfabe history. But as Saint Dick said, the Rumble really faltered as it wore on and got pretty boring. Do you think Y2J coming out later would have helped this?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Do you guys think they brought Jericho out too early? I mean at the time it was great, I was shocked as I'm sure everyone was - plus obviously him and Ziggles have kayfabe history. But as Saint Dick said, the Rumble really faltered as it wore on and got pretty boring. Do you think Y2J coming out later would have helped this?


Maybe. I liked Jericho starting the match, and damn he got a big pop, but during the middle section of the match it just felt like there was a long period where I didn't care about any of the entrants. As TLK said, not enough star power.

Re-watched Punk/Rock. Wouldn't call it bad but don't think it was good either.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I would argue Punk/Rock was just hitting it's stride where you thought there was going to be some real excitement involving false finishes etc, but then the whole Shield/Lights out bit happened, and that just killed the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm almost at the end of the Rumble now and I don't think it had any point where it got dull. We had Jericho #2, then a little bit after GOLDUST showed up, then a little later Sheamus, then a little later Cena, then a little later Rey (or was Rey before Cena?), then Bryan, then Kane, then Orton, then I guess Ryback (as a kind of "big name" anyway". I think it all flowed rather nicely. I'm definitely still a fan of it, it's held up rather well. ***1/4 for it. Not the best, but far from the worst.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> The venue SD is being held at says the show starts at 7 PM, but I thought they tape like 5 different shows prior?
> 
> edit Agreed, the match definitely didn't live up to its hype for me.


Yeah, Superstars/NXT/whatever the hell the first show to tape, starts right at seven.

I don't know what I thought about Punk/Rock. Was really disappointed in Show/Del Rio, but the WWE title match... It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. Right down the middle for me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I would argue Punk/Rock was just hitting it's stride where you thought there was going to be some real excitement involving false finishes etc, but then the whole Shield/Lights out bit happened, and that just killed the match.


Fair point. It had some good elements to it and would've been a hell of a lot more satisfactory if we got a few false finishes, maybe even a ref bump, I dunno. Hated the lights out and restart. Felt like such an anti-climax when it should have been a huge moment (Punk's 434 day reign ending, Rock winning the title for the first time in 10 years). Even before the finish though the match never really drew me in. It was solid at times but also dragged a bit to me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Def didn't feel as big of a moment as it should w/Punk's legendary reign ending and Rock's first title win in 10 years. I agree w/Ownage.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm sure the rematch will be better. Where's *WOOLCOCK* with his Royal Rumble thoughts?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He posted them to me in TTT yesterday morning. He wasn't a fan.

edit This page: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/games-trivia/521840-tell-truth-880.html


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2013 Royal Rumble

Match 1 - Alberto Del Rio Vs The Big Show. Del Rio won the WHC in a Last Man Standing Match. So the rematch is a Last Man Standing Match. Yeah ok. Del Rio is now the greatest thing of all time. That's how WWE are making him out to be, anyway. Just so they can have another big Mexican star since Rey is borderline retired and Sin Cara sucks. I like how they build up Show's knockout punch as being a move that can end the match at ANY TIME... so why doesn't Show try to hit it from the get go? Low blow spot is pretty awesome, Show sells it like a man. That's been hit in the crotch. That chokeslam through the table spot looked TERRIBLE. Was like Show couldn't be arsed. Oh look yet another Barricade spot. Do they do this thing bi-monthly now? I'm sure this is the third time we've seen it since TLC. The spot at least helps build to the finish. Show is hurting, Del Rio gets the chance to injure Show's arm, then while applying the arm breaker, Ricardo ties Show's feet to the ropes with DUCT TAPE. Totally ripping off Cena/Batista lol. Show can't escape because his arm hurts too much, which I liked. Del Rio wins. I enjoyed the finish, but everything before kinda sucked. Was slow and dull with only a couple of moments worth mentioning. *1/2.

Match 2 - Team Hell No Vs Team Rhodes Scholars - Tag titles time. How many times have we seen this match now? Add in singles matches between the two teams, and 6 mans on SD... urgh. I like all 4 guys, but they just don't have THAT kind of chemistry. Doesn't help that Rhodes Scholars can't work a control segment to save their lives. They just kinda stop the opponent, tag out, stop, tag out, work in a couple of tag attempts, then hot tag and finish. That's all we get here. Nothing worth seeing whatsoever. Commentary is AWESOME though. Nothing to do with the match lol, they are just insulting each other and having fun. *.

Match 3 - 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - #1 is Dolph of course, and #2? Chris Jericho! Total surprise for me, no idea if it leaked or not before hand because I am EXTRA careful about spoilers for the RR. Kofi Kingston is the HUMAN YO-YO. A shit nickname for a shit wrestler. Cody tossed 6 guys in the RR match last year. Santino comes it and throws everyone over the ropes, thinks he got them all over... but nope. They surround him so he gets his snake out... and pokes some people with it before being chopped, superkicked and eliminated. Fine comedy spot for the RR match. GOLDUST. What a pop for him! Awesome. Hope he stays around and finally gets that match with Cody. Needs to happen. Guy still looks great in the ring. Superstars has sucked for a while now, needs a grizzled old veteran to give people their best matches to date. Finlay just seems to be an agent now, throw him on Superstars too. A weekly Finlay and Goldust match, even on Superstars, would make me MARK THE FUCK OUT. Goldust stays in for a little while, then Cody eliminates him and he takes a great bump into the ring post. Definitely needs to be a match between them, Dustin will put his brother over like FUCK. LOL at Jericho sat waiting for a 619, even looking back to see where the fuck Rey was. Kofi gets thrown out, but lands on Tensai's back and ends up on the announce table. Looks like he was supposed to jump to the ring apron... but probably wouldn't have made it so he gets a chair and hops his way back... only to be eliminated straight away by Cody. AWESOME. Darren Young looks like he hurt his leg when he went over. He won't be missed if he's injured though. THE GODFATHER! Aaaand he's gone straight away. LOL. Poor Rey, he really doesn't have a good showing this year. Barrett of all people eliminate him too. He really should retire at WM this year. He was awesome for a decade in WWE, but he just hasn't been the same since he last return. Bryan looks awesome when he enters. God he's so fucking over too. I HOPE he gets a nice big push after he and Kane split. Speaking of, Kane comes in, Bryan eliminates him, then Bryan gets thrown out and Kane kidna catches him. They have an awkward moment, Bryan tells him to put him back in, Kane drops him instead lol. SEEDS PLANTED FOR BREAK UP. More on Raw the next night too. Probably end up with a blow off match at WM, but I really wish it would happen sooner so they (mainly Bryan) could so something more at WM. BO DALLAS HAS LASTED OVER 10 MINUTES SO FAR. And he's made less of an impact than Santino did in 2009. BO DALLAS ELIMINATES WADE BARRETT. That made my night. Barrett fucking sucks and deserves to be eliminated by an NXT jobber. He also loses clean to Bo the next night on Raw. Awesome shit. Ziggler superkicks Jericho out. Jericho had a great performance, but ZIGGLER is the guy that fucking RULED this match. Wish he was at least the final guy to be thrown out. Instead the final 2 are Cena and Ryback. At least Cena won, he's the least shitty option out of those two. Not happy still. Overall, a fun Rumble. Not the greatest, but I enjoyed it all the way through. ***1/4. 

Match 4 - CM Punk Vs The Rock - Jericho had a GREAT performance in the RR match despite being gone for 6 months. He lasted nearly 50 minutes. Rock cuts a (shit) promo prior to his match and HE'S ALREADY BREATHING HEAVY. Not a good sign lol. Rock keeps trying to use the Spanish announce table. Punk keeps putting the cover back on it. HE'S A REAL HERO TO THE MEXICANS. When Rock does get to use it, the table breaks before Rock can hit a Rock Bottom and it looks to hurt Rock more than Punk. LOL. Heyman hits Rock from behind and I'm positive he screams "MOMMY!" when Rock turns around and goes after him. Plenty of support for PUNK, even against the self proclaimed great one. Smart stuff from Punk going after the mid section since THE SHIELD attacked him on SD and hit the triple powerbomb and Rock was bleeding internally. Punk hits a couple of high risk moves, and he plays up on the fact he recently had knee surgery, a nice little touch, and Rock at least does a nice job of attacking it when he gets the chance. A couple of nice sequences, one ending with Punk locking the Anaconda Vice in, and the other with Rock applying a Sharpshooter. After that, the match really begins to go downhill. Table spot is fucked up, Rock is about to his the single worst elbow in the world... lights go out, Shield attack Rock and it's all done in a super shitty way. Punk wins, which was awesome, but with time left I knew something was going down. Vince restarts the match, random People's Elbow, Rock... wins. Just like that. Talk about an absolutely HORRIBLE way for the huge title reign of Punk to end. It was just so... flat. Dull. Boring. Uninspiring. Punk looked terrible, Rock looked terrible, nobody benefited from the title change. Just shitty booking. And thus ends Punk's great reign, and we'll be lucky if Rock has more than 2 matches now (EC and WM) for his reign. I get that business wise leading into WM, Rock as champ will draw, but only for this short time. Cena is probably gonna beat him for the title... and then what? Is Cena suddenly gonna spike the ratings and increase buyrates because he beat The Rock? Extremely doubtful. Cena winning or losing doesn't change ANYTHING anymore. Punk losing to Rock here doesn't help him. Rock losing to Cena isn't going to do anything. Cena beating Rock isn't going to do anything. This whole situation is POINTLESS. Match is ok up until the lights going out shit. Then it dies. And brings the rest of the match down. **1/2.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Match 4 - CM Punk Vs The Rock - Jericho had a GREAT performance in the RR match despite being gone for 6 months. He lasted nearly 50 minutes. Rock cuts a (shit) promo prior to his match and HE'S ALREADY BREATHING HEAVY. Not a good sign lol. Rock keeps trying to use the Spanish announce table. Punk keeps putting the cover back on it. HE'S A REAL HERO TO THE MEXICANS. When Rock does get to use it, the table breaks before Rock can hit a Rock Bottom and it looks to hurt Rock more than Punk. LOL. Heyman hits Rock from behind and I'm positive he screams "MOMMY!" when Rock turns around and goes after him. Plenty of support for PUNK, even against the self proclaimed great one. Smart stuff from Punk going after the mid section since THE SHIELD attacked him on SD and hit the triple powerbomb and Rock was bleeding internally. Punk hits a couple of high risk moves, and he plays up on the fact he recently had knee surgery, a nice little touch, and Rock at least does a nice job of attacking it when he gets the chance. A couple of nice sequences, one ending with Punk locking the Anaconda Vice in, and the other with Rock applying a Sharpshooter. After that, the match really begins to go downhill. Table spot is fucked up, Rock is about to his the single worst elbow in the world... lights go out, Shield attack Rock and it's all done in a super shitty way. Punk wins, which was awesome, but with time left I knew something was going down. Vince restarts the match, random People's Elbow, Rock... wins. Just like that. Talk about an absolutely HORRIBLE way for the huge title reign of Punk to end. It was just so... flat. Dull. Boring. Uninspiring. Punk looked terrible, Rock looked terrible, nobody benefited from the title change. Just shitty booking. And thus ends Punk's great reign, and we'll be lucky if Rock has more than 2 matches now (EC and WM) for his reign. I get that business wise leading into WM, Rock as champ will draw, but only for this short time. Cena is probably gonna beat him for the title... and then what? Is Cena suddenly gonna spike the ratings and increase buyrates because he beat The Rock? Extremely doubtful. Cena winning or losing doesn't change ANYTHING anymore. Punk losing to Rock here doesn't help him. Rock losing to Cena isn't going to do anything. Cena beating Rock isn't going to do anything. This whole situation is POINTLESS. *Match is ok up until the lights going out shit. Then it dies. And brings the rest of the match down.* **1/2.


My thoughts in a nutshell. Also agree about the submission sequences being pretty cool.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The layout and structure of the match just seemed all over the place.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

CM Punk v Jeff Hardy (Summerslam 2009) - ****
CM Punk v Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania 28) - ****1/4

Two brilliant matches I have just seen from the BITW DVD (Which is awesome).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> The layout and structure of the match just seemed all over the place.


Agreed. Should have been more back and forth if they were going to do the interference/restart finish but I guess Rock just doesn't have the cardio. The structure they went with would've been fine if they built to a good finishing stretch with believable nearfalls. Could've felt like more of a war and they could've integrated each guy's respective injuries into it. The way they booked the finish made the bulk of the match feel somewhat pointless.

Spinebuster + People's Elbow ending Punk's reign was beyond stupid. No I'm not one of those people who cares that Rock beats people with the elbow, but they should have had Rock pull out all the stops to win, thus making Punk look better in defeat and giving off the impression that Rock really had to be at his best to beat the champ. Not once did I get the impression that Punk was capable of beating Rock without help from The Shield and considering he held the title for 434 days and claims to be the best in the world that just isn't right.

Ugh.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just been watching some of my Raw tapes from 2002, and stumbled across Jeff Hardy vs RVD vs Big Show vs Y2J fatal 4-way elimination from Raw 9/09/2002.

Damn, what a match! Everyone in this looked absolutely superb and the crowd was red hot. This could main event pretty much any PPV.

Anyone got any favourite matches from Raw in 2002?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker Vs Hardy ladder.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Big Z said:


> Undertaker Vs Hardy ladder.


Agreed with Cal, Undertaker's this awesome prick monster heel who is obviously underestimating Hardy. I'm not a jeff hardy fan, but he looks amazing in this. I find myself every time I rewatch this match rooting for hardy, it gets you emotionally invested.

The spot where taker has hardy up for the last ride and hardy grabs the chair and reverses it by hitting taker with the chair is amazing, love that spot to death.

Really makes you believe hardy can win, great finish as well, plays up the dominance of Taker and makes hardy look like a threat. The post match respect is amazing as well.


Related to this point, we need to have matches like this in today's WWE, guy in the midcard faces the WWE champion in the main event and puts up a great performance against the champ. That match did wonders for Hardy and could do the same for another midcard act who is floundering in the midcard.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Agreed with Cal, Undertaker's this awesome prick monster heel who is obviously underestimating Hardy. I'm not a jeff hardy fan, but he looks amazing in this. I find myself every time I rewatch this match rooting for hardy, it gets you emotionally invested.
> 
> The spot where taker has hardy up for the last ride and hardy grabs the chair and reverses it by hitting taker with the chair is amazing, love that spot to death.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree with you about the match itself, and your latter point about midcard guys facing the top champions. That kind of thing would be fanastic for people like Daniel Bryan/Ziggler etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Which PPV is that finisher fest between ANGEL and JEFF? Gotta watch that match. :lol


No Surrender 2010. One of the worst matches ever.



Saint Dick said:


> I'm still pissed at how bad the Rumble was. Fuck.


Same here. Punk vs Rock was so bad that it made me like Show vs Del Rio more. And I _hated_ Show vs Del Rio.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Still rather disappointed in Rock/Punk. Had all the potential in the world.

And Jeff/Taker is ****1/2 for me. Roller coaster of a match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Hardy ladder match = :mark:

What a story.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hoping the WHC chamber is comprised of Del Rio, Show, Sheamus, Orton and the returning MARK HENRY and CHRISTIAN.

I'm gonna rage if that PPV doesn't have a match worth adding to my list, like the Rumble. It's not even a MOTYC list, all I'm asking for is something really good/something I really like. Might check out the Sheamus/Sandow match HS recommended.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Del Rio/Show was good imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Hoping the WHC chamber is comprised of Del Rio, Show, Sheamus, Orton and the returning MARK HENRY and CHRISTIAN.
> 
> I'm gonna rage if that PPV doesn't have a match worth adding to my list, like the Rumble. It's not even a MOTYC list, all I'm asking for is something really good/something I really like. Might check out the Sheamus/Sandow match HS recommended.


Good stuff. Did think I said I liked it more than everything from the Rumble. Stand by that point.

Chamber will probably have Dolph in it for whatever boneheaded reason. Anything to keep him from cashing in before WM, I guess. Jericho could probably be the final guy involved. I'd LOVE the Henry & Christian returns though.



King Kenny said:


> Del Rio/Show was good imo.


Can't say I liked it, personally. A one spot match. Rest of it felt disjointed and much too predictable. Ending really left me soured too. Didn't think it did any favors for Del Rio. Maybe if he did it on his own - a la Cena from Extreme Rules 2010 - I wouldn't have minded it. Having to use help for a bulk of the match for a face was...weird.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so im considering getting all the PPV's from 1997 wcw :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DO IT.

I should post my THOUGHTS on Uncensored 1997 right now. Finished it a few days ago.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DO IT.

Eventually I'll have EVERYTHING wcw related (well nitro's + PPV's) from 1995-2001. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You need to get the THUNDER's next. :mark:

-------------

*WCW Uncensored 1997​*
1) *WCW United States Championship* - *No DQ Match*
Eddie Guerrero(c) vs Dean Malenko ~ ***


2) Ultimo Dragon vs Psychosis ~ *3/4


3) *Martial Arts Match*
Glacier vs Mortis ~ **3/4


4) *Strap Match*
Buff Bagwell vs Scott Riggs ~ DUD


5) *No Rules Tornado Match*
Harlem Heat _(Booker T & Stevie Ray)_ vs Public Enemy _(Johnny Grunge & Rocco Rock)_ ~ 1/2*


6) *WCW Television Championship*
Prince Iaukea vs Rey Mysterio Jr ~ *3/4


7) *Three Team Battle Royal*
Team WCW _(Lex Luger, The Giant, & Scott Steiner)_ vs Team nWo _(Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Kevin Nash, & Scott Hall)_ vs Team Piper _(Roddy Piper, Chris Benoit, Jeff Jarrett, & Steve McMichael)_ ~ DUD​

~ Opener was pretty good. Could have been better with who was involved. EDDIE specifically. I liked it, nonetheless. Seen it tons of times. Always zips on by.

~ Ultimo vs Psychosis and it sucks? wtf? Chemistry wasn't really here. </3. Psychosis looked sloppy.

~ Glacier vs Mortis and it was solid? wtf? Mortis aka Kanyon was the man. Glacier....umm...had a GOAT entrance. Match actually worked. A pleasant surprise. Debut of WRATH post-match.

~ Buff vs Riggs on a PPV lol. Scotty Riggs, you suck pal.

~ Public Enemy is cool. Harlem Heat sucks b/c Stevie Ray is the drizzling shits and brought down Booker. These smack each other for about 15 minutes. Insane Dusty Rhodes commentary makes it well worth seeing. _"THEY ARE MISSING A TOILET SEAT IN THIS BUILDING BECAUSE IT'S IN THE RING!"_

~ Mysterio is the absolute best. Iaukea is incredibly green. Not even over. Match goes far and away too long. Started off decent with the fast paced style. Should have only been about 6 minutes and it would have worked out better. Time limit draw -> restart, Prince wins in a big upset. Nothing special. Dragged in the latter half.

~ Main event was a total mess. Standard WCW fair. Piper got eliminated by Dennis Rodman. Legit. Luger is left alone vs all of the nWo. Takes out Savage, Nash, & Hall in a minute. Spray can to the head later & Hogan wins just b/c. nWo leaves...then STING PROPELS FROM THE CEILING. STING CLEANS HOUSE. WE'RE OUT OF TIMEEEEEEEEEE, GOOD NIGHT.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'll have to watch that opener, looks good. Other then that, DUD?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pretty much. Worth a trip down memory lane. That's about it. 

The tag match can be worth it if you only pay attention to Dusty.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

When did Thunder start again? Whats some good matches from there?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

That Eddy/Dean match is on the Rise & Fall of WCW DVD. Love that match. Lots of fun. When I first got the DVD, I watched that match so freaking much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1/9/98

Good matches? I'm certain sticking with the same great workers - Eddie, Jericho, Mysterio, DDP, Raven, Saturn, various other cruiserweights - and you'll find the good picks.

I'd have to go take a peek and see if there are any noteworthy Finlay or Regal matches too. Thunder is a landscape I haven't gotten to find all the gems quite yet.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

found this GEM:






LOVE how the ref just blows past Jarrett, and is like "ARQUETTES over there"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao FUCK

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeuy9q_8-1-98-wcw-thunder-chris-jericho-vs_shortfilms#.UQirgb_BF8E

also found that one from the debut Thunder. Never knew it happened. :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jericho/Flair :mark:


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> found this GEM:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

fucking Russo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Jericho/Flair :mark:


I know right? :mark:



DFUSCMAN said:


> :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> fucking Russo


CAN'T BLAME RUSSO ONLY. SOME PEOPLE WILL GET OFFENDED.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DAT WCW THREAD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DUBYA SEE DUBYA RASSLIN


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

DUBYA SEE DUBYA, I NEED AN ON A POLE MATCH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> DUBYA SEE DUBYA, I NEED AN ON A POLE MATCH


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...ause-people-get-asshurt-about-just-russo.html

?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> CAN'T BLAME RUSSO ONLY. SOME PEOPLE WILL GET OFFENDED.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HayleySabin again.

Edit: THANK YOU, you are the greatest, WCW 2000 what a time period


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lilian just asked me what TLK meant :lmao


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Lilian just asked me what TLK meant :lmao


HEY I GET THIS REFERENCE......

:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: wrestlingforum


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HayleySabin again.
> 
> Edit: THANK YOU, you are the greatest, WCW 2000 what a time period


~!

It had to be created. Best. Thread. Ever. 



The Lady Killer said:


> Lilian just asked me what TLK meant :lmao


NO FRIGGIN WAY :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Dead serious lilian just came up to me and said "we've been trying to figure out what TLK meant :lmao


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer is my hero :mark:


And it is such a great thread....DAT NOSTALGIA AND DAT HORRIBLE QUALITY OF SHOW......DAT HOGAN BURIAL OF KIDMAN


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

She's just using that as an excuse to talk to you. :hmm:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

who?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> who?


Lillian Garcia's trying to get with TLK at Smackdown.

I'm expecting him to update us on how the night goes after the show.....with Lillian :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> The Lady Killer is my hero :mark:
> 
> 
> And it is such a great thread....DAT NOSTALGIA AND DAT HORRIBLE QUALITY OF SHOW......DAT HOGAN BURIAL OF KIDMAN


The best part is after he kills Kidman he grabs Scott Hudson's headset and tried to us the mic on that to talk through the PA system :lol



King Kenny said:


> who?


Lilian Garcia, bro. TLK does it again.

^^^:lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You'll see my TLK = GOAT sign and Lillian legit asked me what TLK meant :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

oh didnt realise he was at smackdown 

:lmao you're in bro


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> The best part is after he kills Kidman he grabs Scott Hudson's headset and tried to us the mic on that to talk through the PA system :lol


:hogan2 

:russo :russo :russo :russo :russo


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You guys better see my Yeah1993 sign :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

YEAH1993


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> You guys better see my Yeah1993 sign :lmao


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

This is gold :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> You'll see my TLK = GOAT sign and Lillian legit asked me what TLK meant :lmao


I anticipate them all. Hope they show up. :lmao @ Yeah1993.



DFUSCMAN said:


> :hogan2
> 
> :russo :russo :russo :russo :russo


I know exactly what that means. :hmm:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH is in the main event on smackdown this week.

DOLPH.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> I anticipate them all. Hope they show up. :lmao @ Yeah1993.
> 
> 
> 
> I know exactly what that means. :hmm:


Russo smiley has many meanings, it's just how you interpret his genius


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, I interpret his genius in many, many ways.

+ DOLPH


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My MEET ME IN RANTS and TBHAYLEY signs def made TV :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Guerrero/Malenko match from Uncensored would have been really great had Malenko sold the leg at the end. Seriously, dude just shrugs that shit off. I should put the 3 Eddy/Malenko matches from 97 house shows up on youtube that Cal uploaded in 2011. Malenko kind of ruins two of them in some ways for me too, but they're all good overall and one of them is awesome and mah WCW top 100. Eddy's heel act is spectacular. 




The Lady Killer said:


> Dead serious lilian just came up to me and said "we've been trying to figure out what TLK meant :lmao


I am fucking speechless.



The Lady Killer said:


> You guys better see my Yeah1993 sign :lmao


............


Well great now I have to watch the whole episode.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao :lmao

dolph vs del rio :mark:


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> My MEET ME IN RANTS and TBHAYLEY signs def made TV :lmao


MEET ME IN RANTS....you've got to be kidding me :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao 

HAYLEY'S FAMOUS


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh, I interpret his genius in many, many ways.
> 
> + DOLPH


Don't question, just enjoy and wonder how somebody could ever think of anything that insane.



oh and....



DOLPH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> My MEET ME IN RANTS and TBHAYLEY signs def made TV :lmao


fucking PLEASE.



Yeah1993 said:


> The Guerrero/Malenko match from Uncensored would have been really great had Malenko sold the leg at the end. Seriously, dude just shrugs that shit off. I should put the 3 Eddy/Malenko matches from 97 house shows up on youtube that Cal uploaded in 2011. Malenko kind of ruins two of them in some ways for me too, but they're all good overall and one of them is awesome and mah WCW top 100. Eddy's heel act is spectacular.


Bingo. He hits a frog splash to perfection without so much as wincing in pain. C'mon DEAN. We know you're the ice man, but show us something.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK sorry buddy but they took my WOOLCOCK sign


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fuck this company.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

THE LADY KILLER

So epic. How was the show bro?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Damn I'm actually going to have to watch Smackdown to see these signs.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dolph vs ADR. DAT WORKRATE.

Also, Elimination Chamber already looks as good, if not better than the Royal Rumble in paper, and that's considering RR looked amazing. Sheamus vs Orton vs (ugh) Khali vs D-Bry vs Kane vs Ziggler :mark:

What will they do with the WHC Title itself, though?

EDIT~Forget my excitement, Hell No are probably not in the match after all. Still, crossing fingers Henry or Christian or even Rhodes Scholars take their place.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Eh if that's the chamber what happened to Big Show?


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> My MEET ME IN RANTS and TBHAYLEY signs def made TV :lmao


You've gotta be kidding me :lmao even more reason to watch SD now. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah the Smackdown spoilers did leave me a bit confused on who is actually going to be in the Chamber match. Not to mention what's on tap for the World Championship.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH DOLPH DOLPH.

I'm going to picrep PYRO with DOLPH holding championship gold.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah the Smackdown spoilers did leave me a bit confused on who is actually going to be in the Chamber match. Not to mention what's on tap for the World Championship.


Think so far it's 



Spoiler



Orton, Khali, Swagger, and Sheamus



On another note, with Brock signing that new deal supposedly, I think Taker vs Lesnar is not much of a stretch. But HHH vs Brock is still HIGHLY likely for sure. And then most likely Punk/Taker of course.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

After reading the spoilers my guess on the SD chamber is:





Spoiler:  SD CHAMBER



ADR
SHOW
KHALI
SWAGGER
ORTON 
SHEAMUS

Hopefully Khali gets replaced in the coming weeks


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> You've gotta be kidding me :lmao even more reason to watch SD now. (Y)


And the other reasons were.........


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh trust me, if you read the spoilers you'll know why he HAS to see Smackdown.

Nobody will like Smackdown more this week than WAGG except for TLK, you, or myself thanks to the signs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One thing that did kinda bother me in the Rock/Punk match, and i know it happens all the time, but Punk talking Rock through the next move/spot, it was so obvious,
they may as well as just got a tale and chairs and had a powerpoint presentation.

I dont think the match is quite as bad as people make out, i thought Punk carried most of it, just not as good as i wanted/expected, the table spot was unfortunate,
and the lights going out/restart crap ruined it for me tbh.

Not sure on a rating - **1/2 maybe. Dont get me started on the commentary - FFS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this on me travels:

http://papashangoislate.tumblr.com/...-shango-is-late-handles-your-crappy-arguments

Quite interesting really lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

zep81 said:


> Saw this on me travels:
> 
> http://papashangoislate.tumblr.com/...-shango-is-late-handles-your-crappy-arguments
> 
> Quite interesting really lol.


I agree with every single word of that.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently watching Ambrose/Sandow :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got a link to the full Heyman/Vince segment on Raw? I deleted Raw off my Tivo...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

YouTube it bro. or go telly tv


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> YouTube it bro. or go telly tv


Ill try YT mate, there was a couple on there that i saw but they were mobile device jobs or the feed was stuttery


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

googlee telly tv


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Heyman was fantastic in that segment.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

he was gold


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Ambrose/Sandow Briscoe 15 match was great. really enjoyed it. *** 1/2. 

now onto James Bronson vs ambrose


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> googlee telly tv


Thanks mate, ill have a look. The whole segment was fucking ace, and when Brock's music hit, i jumped up like a bloody little kid lol, fantastic.

I know Triple-H is going to get involved, but it was just great to see that segment.

There is a moment at the start when Lesnar's music hit, where Heyman has that look of - "I might be alright here" lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

man Ambrose s promo after his match with Bronson was epic. :mark;. also check out Ambrose/Richie steamboat if you haven't already


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

2011/2012 FCW had so many good matches it's unbelievable.

The five Ambrose/Rollins matches (the 15 championship trilogy, they had another one later in 2011 and then they had one in 2012)
The two Ambrose/Regal matches, the second of which I'd put in my top 10 WWE matches from last year, with ease.
Ohno/Cesaro match which is given fifteen minutes and is a hell of a lot of fun
Any Sandow/Rollins matches are well worth checking out.
Ohno and Rollins had a great title match in 2012 which is entertaining as hell.
Sandow/Ambrose had a killer heel vs. heel match.

All of that, plus I'm missing some Steamboat, Kruger and Reigns matches which are all better than what you'd find on your average episode of Raw nowadays, well as some tag matches including the aforementioned). FCW is where it was AT. Some fucking awesome matches in there, alongside some horrible ones as well. But you could argue that FCW 2011-2012 was the best product in North America. Great character development, smart booking, the occasional epic rivalry (Regal/Ambrose) and some terrific matches. Bare in mind that FCW was the DEVELOPMENTAL for the "big time" and it's even more remarkable.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Lilian just asked me what TLK meant :lmao


:lmao:lmao:lmao

Where were your seats?

And I may need to make some gifs of this similar to the MORRISON OWNS sign.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

> And then they’ll get you back by booking Ziggler vs. Bryan vs. Punk vs. Cesaro in an IWC blowjob match at Over the Limit or some shit. Also, you’re still going to buy DVDs, you’re still going to pay like $40 for a Jinder Mahal action figure, and you’re still gonna drop like $150 when Raw comes to town on a Ziggler t-shirt so you can boo The Rock and feel like an individual. Don’t front.


this had me rolling


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so true though


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> THE LADY KILLER
> 
> So epic. How was the show bro?


It was pretty fun. Got there early enough to see Saturday Morning Slam (awful). Main event had a decent Cesaro match, but it seems like it was a night for faces to win cleanly, which sucked. Lots of kids there, and they had the opposite upper tier completely blocked off. Wrestlers didn't give our side much love for whatever reason, although Orton came by and high-fived me, as did Striker when he came out for commentary on one of those jobber shows they taped. Lilian came up to me to ask what TLK meant, which was amusing. Del Rio/Ziggler was a great main event, I started many "LET'S GO ZIGGLER" chants, which you'll likely hear. Security at the show was garbage, they made me hide my beer for the Sat. Morning Slam taping :lmao

Overall fun experience. My signs should be all over TV. The girl behind me was getting furious.



Brye said:


> :lmao:lmao:lmao
> 
> Where were your seats?
> 
> And I may need to make some gifs of this similar to the MORRISON OWNS sign.


Front row


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well I see something big is about to happen on SD this week. Thank you guys for making good use of the spoiler tags. I hate spoilers. Ruin everything!

And going back a few pages, the topic of Malenko vs Guerrero. It's funny actually, last night I decided to give it a watch but ended up taking it off. Not because I foudn it to be bad, I was just really freaking tired. But I noticed something that irked me.

You see whenever I shit all on ECW and say it was nothing but a blood and guts promotion that ran its course and Heyman in all his greatness failed tor realize that things had to change, a lot of people like to counter me with "Oh ECW had great technical matches as well and the fans appreciated it as much as the bloodfets". Well, I call bullshit. Here you have Guerrero and Malenko busting their asses in the ring and what are the fans more interested in? Some fucking drunk getting kicked out. I mean don't get me wrong, for the 10 minutes that I watched they seemed to be into it, whenever Malenko did a cartwheel.

I know people won't take my opinion seriously because I never saw ECW during its glory days, but I have a brain. It may not be the biggest but it sure as hell is enough to make an observation and form an opinion. I always say that Heyman had a great idea but had no freaking clue what to do after a while and let things get way too out of hand and he desensitized the business and the fans.

But that's just a little side note I wanted to make on EEE-CEE-DUBYAH. Back to Malenko/Guerrero, I'm gonna finish it off in a couple minutes but why am I not surprised to hear that Malenko is no selling something. Good Lord, it seems as if that style of wrestling been plaguing the indies since day one. I would love to see if I could find some matches from the 70s and 80s that featured the hard hitting no selling style of wrestling. Juts to really see how long it's been around.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Just finished with Guerrero/Malenko Hostile City Showdown, the match is shite 

Well at least the crowd finally decided to show some appreciation once it turned into a demonstration of moves and a roll up/kick out fest. 

I'm sorry but it's hard for me to like a Dean Malenko match. The guy just lacks any sort of enthusiasm in his matches. They always look like he's just going through the motions. He puts no efforts into selling, his facials expressions and his mannerisms are just non-existent. The guy fucking sucks. Just another guy purists jizz over cause he bends and twists people up. Seriously, this guy gives Lance Storm competition for most dull wrestler ever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BUT HE KNOWS 1000 HOLDS


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> BUT HE KNOWS 1000 HOLDS


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> It was pretty fun. Got there early enough to see Saturday Morning Slam (awful). Main event had a decent Cesaro match, but it seems like it was a night for faces to win cleanly, which sucked. Lots of kids there, and they had the opposite upper tier completely blocked off. Wrestlers didn't give our side much love for whatever reason, although Orton came by and high-fived me, as did Striker when he came out for commentary on one of those jobber shows they taped. Lilian came up to me to ask what TLK meant, which was amusing. Del Rio/Ziggler was a great main event, I started many "LET'S GO ZIGGLER" chants, which you'll likely hear. Security at the show was garbage, they made me hide my beer for the Sat. Morning Slam taping :lmao
> 
> Overall fun experience. My signs should be all over TV. The girl behind me was getting furious.


Ballin. I'm definitely watching Smackdown this week.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm more excited for SD this week just to see if The Lady Killer's signs made TV lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They're def on TV. I was watching the big screen and trying to position my signs so that they were legible. I was front row so you can't miss it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WAT DO U LOOK LIKE


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was wearing a black jacket. Also skipped shaving so you should be able to notice my BEARD. I was standing up a lot and being loud & obnoxious so you should be able to see/hear me.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ZIGGLER


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

Royal Rumble Match Marathon

*Royal Rumble 1988*
Fairly straight forward and basic but the novelty of being the first match sells it a bit. Enjoyed the opening exchanges with Hart/Santana and couldn't believe how over Duggan was in this match, the entire arena reacted to him. 4/10

*Royal Rumble 1989*
A step up if only because it featured the star power of Hogan, Savage & Andre etc. You're going to get tired of me saying this because generally speaking the opening is the best part of the Rumble but once again the most memorable spot of the night was Demolition going toe to toe to start it off. The match was going swimmingly - HBK & Henning were pretty fun bumpers and the ring swelled until Hogan showed up and cleaned house. Unfortunately, Hogan's rapid fire eliminations completely slowed the match to a near halt and by the end of it the result didn't really seem to matter apart from the fact Dibiase didn't win. Studd's victory felt too out of left field IMO, probably the least over Rumble winner of all time. 5/10

*Royal Rumble 1990*
Best all-round Rumble until 01. I know 92 gets a lot of love but for me aside from Flair & Heenan the match kind of blows. This match was just really well structured with a good flow of stars, a lot of fun moments and of course the Hogan/Warrior showdown which received a big reaction. 7/10

*Royal Rumble 1991*
Dullest Rumble match I've seen. Just a really slow match which save for the Bushwacker elimination was clearly lacking in 'big' moments. 3/10

*Royal Rumble 1997*
This was a strange Rumble in that it actually started pretty terribly with some really dumb eliminations (two wrestlers eliminated themselves) but really got better from then on. This was Austin at his prime as a performer and this was his best Rumble performance. Just a lot of fun watching him play the cocky but cheap heel who'd score eliminations as the opposition had their backs turned and would call more challengers to the ring even when he's face down in the middle of the ring. Good finale with all the stars at the end although the cheap finish and the fact it meant little come the day of Mania 13 hurts the score for me. 6/10

*Royal Rumble 1998*
Started well with Funk/Foley but was pretty forgettable beyond that. Austin was billed as the big ass-kicker but didn't really score that many eliminations. Thought Rock sucked in the survivor role and having the NoD turn on each other during the match and mean little later on was pretty stupid. It would have made more sense for them to team up through out the match to emphasize The Rock's elimination of Farooq. 5/10

*Royal Rumble 2006*
Ever since 01, the match has really spiked in quality and 06 isn't an exception. It's one of those Rumbles that doesn't really get spoken about a whole lot, probably because it was just a straight match that barely built any angles but it had it's moments. In fact, by about the half-way point, I thought it was shaping up to be one of the best Rumble matches of all-time as it did a good job of showcasing all the stars and really made the likes of Lashley, Show & Kane look beastly. Unfortunately, the match slowed down to allow the ring to swell up and at that point it just degenerates into another RR. 6/10

*Royal Rumble 2013*
After a pretty average 2012, it was good to see 2013 return to form. The match pretty much won me over by the time Jericho shocked the world and returned to the ring but it kept coming up with surprises and some awesome innovative spots. Thought the flow of the match was strong, everytime it slowed down, it usually served a purpose as Sheamus/Cena & Ryback got to dominate. Only complaint would be that the finish felt a tad anti-climatic but otherwise, definitely one of the better Rumbles of all time. 7/10


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Rewatched CM Punk vs. The Rock.

The two worked a great match. The Rock obviously not in ring-shape, as JBL liked to call it, but you have to give him credit where credit is due, the two worked very well together. Great psychology early on in the match by both, selling their respective injuries and targeting their opposition's. Jim Ross hyped this match up as not being a classic wrestling match, but a fight. And that's what it was. Hardly any down time, strikes were thrown constantly. Punk trying to take advantage of Rocky's lack of ring time by using submissions was great too. The GTS, countered into a sharpshooter, countered into the Vice was sweet. And then the Rock bottom countered into a rollup into a sharpshooter was epic. Awesome stuff there. And of course, Punk's facial expressions, like always, play a great part. Fixing the announcer's table then taking a bow was GOAT :lol. Not to mention Paul Heyman's ridiculously menacing expressions throughout. Rocky played the babyface in peril very well and did his job by selling Punk as a legitimate threat. Something I didn't get from Rock/Cena.

The table spot was a shame, but as always, slip-ups such as these only add to the match. That was hard to watch knowing Punk's leg injury, and that's the point. They took a nasty spill. And then not even a minute later, Rock gets Punk up and hits Rock Bottom on the floor! At this point the direction has changed. This is Rock's match now. Paul Heyman's face is in his palm, he senses that his champ is in danger. What a fucking great character this guy is, and he does it so well. Rock rolls Punk in and tries to put him away, but Punk's not done yet. He gets up and hits Rock with a perfectly executed roundhouse kick. We're back to an even playing field. Heyman is getting pumped. Fucking hell, this guy is on a roll. Both men are up and are throwing some back and forth punches to play with the crowd. It's not often you see it, but the reaction here is split with this back-and-forth. Rock hits the spinebuster and sets up the People's Elbow.

And here's where the match takes a hit. I could have done without an interference, personally. I've said it before, my hopes for this feud were for it to be strictly one on one, Punk vs. Rock. I didn't want anyone, Shield included, involved. But it added drama, and more importantly, it got the crowd behind Rock. Throughout the match the crowd was evenly split. Loud Rock chants, loud Punk chants, dueling boots to asses, knees to faces chants. But at this point, the crowd was solely behind Rock. Punk pins the Rock and he and Heyman are ecstatic. Fans are stunned, with a good portion of fans glad to see Punk win. Most of the fans, however, feel robbed. Which brings us to the pop of the night, Vince fucking McMahon. Who by the way, is shit as a face. Just my opinion. Especially during that Heyman segment this past RAW. DAT HYPOCRISY. Anyway, match restarts. Punk's pissed and is taking it to Rock. He hits his elbow, but Rock powers out. Fans are loving it. Punk signals GTS, but is hit with the spinebuster and the end is near. People's elbow connects this time, and we have a new champion. Crowd erupts as Rocky wins the championship, and Punk's 434 days as champion finally come to an end. Great stuff.

****

I'm expecting more of a clean match at EC, with Rock ultimately coming out as the winner which sets up Rock/Cena II. Ugh. But I've been loving this feud so far, and I'm looking forward to their upcoming segments and match. Really good chemistry between Punk and Rock. Hopefully Heyman stays with Punk. He was a fucking star here.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Vince being a terrible face is nothing new. He' always been awful at that role and as much of a bully as when he's a heel, except he can actually be entertaining as a heel. But that doesn't mean he's immune to sucking there either. Just see the feud with Shawn/DX for a perfect example.

I can't believe that I, of all people, would be one of the more positive voices regarding Punk/Rock. Full credit to both men and Rock wrestling felt a bit more 'home' compared to the Cena match. Would have gone the full 4 had it not been for the stupid restart with the Shield's involvement so I knock it down by ¼.

On the topic of Smackdown this week, I gotta see it just for TLK's signs. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Smackdown's ratings are gonna go thru the roof thanks to TLK. :lmao

I write a review of it for PWMania and I may throw in a line or two about that guy in the front row. :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao plz!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

FAMOUS TLK


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If SD ratings have an increase, it's official: TLK is a bigger draw than THE ROCK!

They should headline Wrestlemania this year in the first ever "Who's the Better Draw?" match. DVD would totally outsell Kevin Nash's legendary "The Greatest Draws of All Time (No Vanilla Midgets!)".


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

whats peoples opinions on the ambrose/rollins series? im going to watch it soon


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> whats peoples opinions on the ambrose/rollins series? im going to watch it soon


No match between them is short of *** 1/2. Just epic all round, and each match gets better and better and better, which is rare for a series. Although I may be biased as I'm a huge mark for both guys.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Dave Meltzer gave the Punk V Rock match ****. So ya'll like the match now.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

My first watch had it at **** and it stayed that way on re-watch. I've seen some ** ratings for it, that seems far too low if you ask me, but to each their own. It's like Lesnar/HHH in a sense. I've seen people give the same ****+ praise to that, and that's a match I have at *.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Rock. ****1/2* with 1/2* credited to Rock winning the title after all this time. Not bad but not fantastic either. I wasn't _that _hyped going in which is why I probably don't share the same disappointment as some of you. While I enjoyed the feud, I didn't think it was phenomenal. I just wanted Rock to win. He did and I'm happy.

Lesnar/HHH >>>>> by a mile though. The limb work and selling in that match blows Punk/Rock out of the water. For me personally anyways.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK's selling of the stomach is a thing of beauty.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Heyman panicking over it just put the whole thing over the top as well.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I love Brocks selling in the HHH V Brock match. Especially when he no sells the pedigree and when he wins the match he no sells his "REALEZ LIFE" stomach injury. Its comical.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Lesnar/HHH is the definition of a false finish. The match gets a lot of mixed reactions but I have it at 4 stars. 

And lol at Meltzer. Good Lord, I used to take his opinion as gospel and used to scan through thousands of his match listing pulling out the big ****+ ones. Then I realzied, I CAN FORM MY OWN FUCKING OPINION. If only I had the resources to start my own magazine though.

Besides after Michaels/Elgin getting awarded 5 stars, Melzter's credibility as a wrestling journalist has gone down the toilet with me. How does he go from rating Flair/Steamboat or a Flair/Funk 5 stars to that wrestling school of a match Richards/Elgins. I say "wrestling school of a match"because well, it looks they're in a wrestling school practicing moves because I've yet to see anything that looks like they're trying to work a match. They must have been practicing moves that day. Probably forgot they were in front of a crowd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Punk/Rock. ****1/2* with 1/2* credited to Rock winning the title after all this time. Not bad but not fantastic either. *I wasn't that hyped going in which is why I probably don't share the same disappointment as some of you. *While I enjoyed the feud, I didn't think it was phenomenal. I just wanted Rock to win. He did and I'm happy.


Been wanting to say this too. The fact that I'm not very high on Punk has actually helped me enjoy the match a lot more since I didn't go into it with the mind of expecting the biggest match since Rock/Hogan or a finisher fest or anything like that. I just went into like a regular match involving The Rock.

I have it slightly above Lesnar/HHH although I need to watch that match again.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar/HHH is at least a solid **** from me. Maybe ****1/4 if I'm feeling extra frisky at the time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Does anybody think we'll have the same sort of match at Mania between Lesnar/HHH (if that match happens as expected obviously)?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Probably add some sort of gimmick to it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Does anybody think we'll have the same sort of match at Mania between Lesnar/HHH (if that match happens as expected obviously)?


I think it would be pretty similar, but perhaps less emphasis on injuries sustained as that was a major part of the SS match. Maybe there would be another stipulation added for the 'Mania match?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Been wanting to say this too. The fact that I'm not very high on Punk has actually helped me enjoy the match a lot more since I didn't go into it with the mind of expecting the biggest match since Rock/Hogan or a finisher fest or anything like that. I just went into like a regular match involving The Rock.
> 
> I have it slightly above Lesnar/HHH although I need to watch that match again.


I liked their feud and thought it was good. It wasn't OMG EPICZ for me every week like it was for some folks though.

If Trips/Lesnar happens again I think they're going to have to go out there and murder each other, especially if it comes down to Brock attacking DA MACMAN FAMILY. If the feud is about that and they don't have a murderfest, it will end up like HHH/Orton, a massive disappointment.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think id like to see an F5 or two on HHH rather than mainly going for the Kimura lock (although obviously that was the main part of the match at SS 'cos of Hunter's arm).

Im not against a tap out or anything, i just hope they kinda change it up a bit this time around, although it does depend on if there is any stipulation added..


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Not overly happy about having two rematches at Wrestlemania, tbh.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

greendayedgehead said:


> Not overly happy about having two rematches at Wrestlemania, tbh.


Would be surprised if anybody is. Lesnar, Rock, Cena, Punk, Undertaker, Triple H, all available on one card. Can't be stressed enough, definition of wasted potential.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm getting sick of these Mania rematches as well. It's just really lazy booking.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

we dont know whats gonna happen yet. 8*D


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Does anybody think we'll have the same sort of match at Mania between Lesnar/HHH (if that match happens as expected obviously)?


I can see the match being 'career vs. career' with a No Holds Barred stipulation again.

With Lesnar re-signing for two years, it could be used as a way to officially end Triple H's career. It would make sense too, based on where they went with the angle post-SummerSlam and Triple H cutting that promo on Raw teasing retirement.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Just rewatched HHH/Lesnar. **** 1/4. This is a very very good match. I didn't realize how good was this match the first time. Great moments (first 2 HHH's clothelines throwing brock out of the ring, brock removing his gloves, the low blow), amazing selling from both men, and a shocking finish ( brock no selling the pedigree). I'm okay for a rematch ( i wasn't just 30 min ago...)

Rewathed Bryan/ Punk at Over the limit match. Still amazing and still **** 1/2. 

ADR/Orton/Jericho/Sheamus at over the limit is the best multiple men match of 2012 (TLC match doesn't count because it's a tag) **** 1/4. The final sequence is out of this world.

Damn i hope 2013 will be as good as 2012 matchwise


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still haven't seen that 4way from OTL. Apparently I need to.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

you really do TLK. what do you rate dolph/del rio? :mark:

DOLPH


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Still haven't seen that 4way from OTL. Apparently I need to.


You really should. It was a really good match.

I think on my last watch of it I had it at a ***3/4 or ****.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

OTL 4 Way is ★★★★ for me. Very awesome back and forth action involving any combinations of two from the four. Really enjoyed it.

On another note, I saw Dean Malenko being discussed a few pages back earlier today and that made me wanna go watch a match of his with Eddie and the first result that came up was Starrcade 97 so I rolled with that. Very enjoyable match and Malenko's wrestling style is awesome even if he's got no personality or facial expressions ("The Iceman"). ★★★¾.

With that said, it also blows my mind that people say Benoit had no personality/charisma. Sure, his mic skills were nothing but charisma is not the same thing. That's shown by the fact he received constant standing ovations even after losing a match as well as his awesome facial expressions whether selling or celebrating.



Starbuck said:


> I liked their feud and thought it was good. It wasn't OMG EPICZ for me every week like it was for some folks though.


Same here. I also think people blow this whole "THE ROCK IS GASSED" thing way out of proportion. To me, it looks like he's selling.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Same here. I also think people blow this whole "THE ROCK IS GASSED" thing way out of proportion. To me, it looks like he's selling.


I think he was a bit tbh, same with the Cena match, but it isn't surprising. He isn't used to being in the ring anymore. Ring rust and stamina issues are to be expected. It isn't like Taker or HHH or Jericho who have all stayed wrestling regularly for a much longer time than him. It's just going to take him a bit to get back in the full swing of things.

OTL 4 way *****1/4* I think I had it at. Great match. The pace was great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Still haven't seen that 4way from OTL. Apparently I need to.


Nah. It's good. That's about it. Nothing to really go out of your way to see.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've been hearing a lot about hat OTL 4 way, I can't even recall it ever happening. Speaking of 4 ways, there was on SD over the summer last year that was really fun.

@C2D, Agree about Benoit.The charisma he didn't have on the mic, he more than made up for in the ring with. Also in terms of promo work, Benoit wasn't great but he got the job done. 

Benoit reminds me of Jeff. No, please don't take that the wrong way. I'm not saying Jeff is anything like Benoit in the ring. But both of them were similar in that the charisma they lacked on the mic was more than made up for in the ring. 

Oh btw, I just want to point out that Jeff's best mic work was definitely the promo after his Ladder match with Taker. The entire scenario from the match to the aftermath is just wrestling at its best imo. Very emotional. To me, THAT'S wrestling. One of my favourite matches/moments of all time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock/Punk- ***3/4 on watch earlier today. Still a great match, fantastic selling, psychology, and overall in-ring work up until The Shield attack where things get fucked up. Didn't mind The Shield stuff as much on last viewing, though it still irks me quite a bit. It has some pacing problems but Punk's work-over The Rock and his mid-section was awesome and with that the pace didn't bother me too much. Rock's attack on Punk's legs, leading to the sharp-shooter was brilliant as well. I also liked all the Rock-Bottom attempts and Punk's apparent urgency to get out, which was some great storytelling going along with what Rock said on Friday. Makes me wish even more that Rock did end up beating Punk with a Rock-Bottom, or at least a Rock-Bottom into the People's Elbow.

Lesnar/HHH- *** and I did try watching it today, but I just couldn't sit through it again. I think in the back of my mind, I only watched it to see Lesnar TAKE DEM GLOVES OFF because following that, I wasn't paying attention and was doing other stuff with the match in the background until I finally just decided to close the browser. Pacing's terrible, and Brock's control segment put me out of it more and more until I decided to just give up. I know the match gets better following Lesnar's stomach being driven into the announce table, and it wasn't so bad at the beginning, but mid-match it's just dreadful. I'll give it another shot later in the week and won't lower the rating since I should suffer through it all before that, but it's disappointing.

OTL four-way was great, and I had it at ***3/4, but haven't seen it since a second watch of the PPV shortly after it happened. Need to re-watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've been hearing a lot about hat OTL 4 way, I can't even recall it ever happening. Speaking of 4 ways, there was on SD over the summer last year that was really fun.
> 
> @C2D, Agree about Benoit.The charisma he didn't have on the mic, he more than made up for in the ring with. Also in terms of promo work, Benoit wasn't great but he got the job done.
> 
> ...


Jeff Hardy's best promo work came following his heel turn in 2010. It's actually quite _*good*_.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Punk/Rock. ****1/2* with 1/2* credited to Rock winning the title after all this time. Not bad but not fantastic either. I wasn't _that _hyped going in which is why I probably don't share the same disappointment as some of you. While I enjoyed the feud, I didn't think it was phenomenal. I just wanted Rock to win. He did and I'm happy.
> 
> Lesnar/HHH >>>>> by a mile though. The limb work and selling in that match blows Punk/Rock out of the water. For me personally anyways.


Something dearly lacked in that match. Cena vs Rock over that match any day. I think there should be a stipulation in their next match, but not sure if Rock can take it, I mean he isn't a permanent star and seriously can't afford SERIOUS injury, but for the sake of quality, something should step up, or stipulation. 

Like you said, it was enjoyable for the sole purpose of hoping the Rock could overcome Punk. The match was ok.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't like Brock vs H either. It has Punk vs Rock beat on nearly every level though. Punker vs Rock was horrible.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rock/Cena II should have no disqualifications. They should implement more brawling, a faster pace, and have no down periods. It would be ideal to keep it hot all the way through. That means match time should be around 15-18 minutes imo. Every big main event doesn't need to go 20+ minutes imo. Leave out the fat, work the crowd into a frenzy with the big moves and well-built kick outs. With the raucous atmosphere they are expected to have it should be a proper WrestleMania "epic" match if all goes well. I'm not excited for this feud at all but with the right ingredients it could turn out to be a better match than last year which people are split on the actual quality anyway.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

@ Clique

Definitely agree with the noDQ, Cena should also show more of a I really want to hurt this guy attitude as well. Give it a sort of HHH vs Taker mania 17 feel. Anything to give it more of a spark from the last one.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Brock/HHH - ****1/4, loved it. 
Punk/Rock - ***1/2, I'm expecting more at Elimination Chamber.

Still haven't had a **** WWE match in 2013, I'd give **** to the Rumble but I find it hard to rank them among other matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'll save my re-watch of HHH/Brock for closer to Mania if they are indeed doing the rematch. I've seen it two or three times anyway. I know I like it and I know I think it's good. Not sure if I'll be able to watch Cena/Rock again though. I might just for the sake of being able to compare it to WM29 if Cena/Rock II happens. Punk/Rock I've seen twice and have no intention of ever watching it again.

Anyone think they might do Cody/Goldust at Mania? I'm definitely down to see that.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Brock/Hunter was a massive disappointment. Hunter's faux heroic babyface performance was cringeworthy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm gonna give Brock/HHH a re-watch right around the corner from Mania and see if I can complete it. I don't know, maybe by some chance the feud to Mania will actually be great and it'll give me more motivation to sit through the whole Summerslam match in anticipation for their Wrestlemania match. 

I'll probably do the same with Rock/Cena, though I do think that'll be a lot easier as that match was comfortably better than Brock/HHH to me. 

Cody/Goldust never really interested me as much as it should've. I suppose it'd be a fine under-card match to give Cody something to do. May as well give some WM predictions, even some match order and times of matches. We'll have Rock/Cena as the main event, Lesnar/HHH as the sub-main event, Taker/Punk as the big streak match, The Shield against Orton, Sheamus, and Ryback (I'm having my doubts about Orton/Sheamus for Mania now with their being no EC match for The Shield apparently, though I have heard the rumors of Ryback/Jericho), Maybe a World Title triple threat or fatal four way, AJ/Kaitlyn for the Divas Title, Barrett/Jericho for the IC Title, Cesaro/Swagger for the US Title (I still think there may be a Swagger face turn at some point in the next 4-5 weeks), Kane/Bryan, Mysterio/Cara, and Cody/Goldust.

11 matches. That's about right, right? As for order and times each match are given (including any video package, entrances, and after-match celebrations), I'd see it being:
WHC Fatal Four Way (23 minutes)
Swagger/Cesaro (11 minutes)
Cody/Goldust (7 minutes)
Lesnar/HHH (mainly this early for the same reason as Taker/HHH last year, to give a lot of room between it and Rock/Cena) (31 minutes)
Kane/Bryan (13 minutes)
The Shield/Ryback-Orton-Sheamus (26 minutes)
Barrett/Jericho (14 minutes) 
Mysterio/Cara (20 minutes)
AJ Lee/Kaitlyn (8 minutes)
Taker/Punk (26 minutes)
Rock/Cena (33 minutes)

That totals 212 minutes, leaving 28 minutes for promos, performances, and whatever, though usually WWE leave 10-15 minutes open at the end, so it really leaves 13-18 minutes, which depending on the amount of performances (if they have any), may not be enough.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Bought a few Blu-rays over the last few days. They all arrived pretty quickly!

Best of King Of The Ring
Wrestlemania 24 (had it on DVD but wanted the BD)
The Story of Edge
Raw 100
Extreme Rules 2012
Falls Count Anywhere

Watching the KOTR set, finally watched HBK/Bulldog for the first time and I loved it. Fantastic wrestling match. ******at least on first watch imo.

Hogan/Yokozuna was interesting. It was Hulk's last WWF match for 9 years because he left after he dropped the belt. Hogan was still fan favourite but you could just kind of tell that the magic wasn't there anymore. Even Hogan seemed like he was just going through the motions.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> Watching the KOTR set, finally watched HBK/Bulldog for the first time and I loved it. Fantastic wrestling match. ******at least on first watch imo.


Ive wrote about that match at least twice on here, love it personally, just a brilliant all round wrestling match, funny part at the start when the heel Bulldog enters the ring and shouts at the crowd "Don't fuck with me"  , picked up perfectly by the camera lol.

Also love when Bulldog just lifts HBK up from the outside and flings him through the ropes back in the ring,

Yeah, i do love it, ****1/4 for me, excellent


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I thought the OTL 4 way was pretty solid but nothing amazing. Have it around ***1/2-***3/4.

It's certainly no Backlash '07 4-way.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd go *** at most for that 4 way.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The 4 Way Match from OTL was very good ****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wasn't too high on that four way. Falls into the category of good, nothing more.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Backlash 07 4-way = 

Haven't seen that match in ages. That's one I can watch over and over again. Might need to do so. Wasn't there another pretty solid match on that card?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Backlash 07 4-way =
> 
> Haven't seen that match in ages. That's one I can watch over and over again. Might need to do so. Wasn't there another pretty solid match on that card?


Taker/Batista LMS?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Taker/Batista LMS?


This. The four-way at BL 07 was amazing and I have it as the best Fatal Four Way match ever.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

The finish of the Backlash 2007 was AWE-SOME. One thing annoys me though is that Justin Roberts and Michael Cole look bored out of there minds watching


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Taker/Batista LMS?


That's the one. Thanks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit SD 2003 - ****1/4
DAMN.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit SD 2003 - ****1/4
> DAMN.


One Brock match im yet to watch  Might get on it later...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Does that guy ever have a bad match? Even his squashes were fucking awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Depends who you talk to . I'm sure the HHH match will be mentioned .

Goldberg match was terrible too, but he wasn't exactly trying and neither was Bill.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've stricken that match from my memory.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh, Lesnar/Goldie might be one of the best DUD's ever 

Another match of his worth seeing is Backlash 03 vs Cena.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Backlash '07 is such a great show. Even the women's match (Melina/Mickie) was good if I remember correctly.

*Big Show v Triple H - New Year's Revolution (1/8/06)*
Always liked this match but I don't think I ever fully appreciated it until this viewing. Then again maybe I did I just can't remember because I haven't seen it in years and I have a terrible memory. Point is this deserves a lot of praise as a match which works an injury angle (Show's broken hand) brilliantly with two great individual performances. Portraying agony throughout a match isn't something you can associate with Big Show too often but he's excellent doing that here. His hand looked seriously fucked up and he sold it to perfection from start to finish. Hunter is really good as the sadistic heel, never letting up on the injury and constantly punishing Show with simple yet brutal looking offense. Dug just about everything they did, including the post-ref bump stuff. Show breaking the sledgehammer was :mark: Great match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Does that guy ever have a bad match? Even his squashes were fucking awesome.


Nope (Goldberg match never happened lol), i can watch Brock in squash matches, classics, promos, segments, fuck me anything tbh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Backlash '07 is such a great show. Even the women's match (Melina/Mickie) was good if I remember correctly.
> 
> *Big Show v Triple H - New Year's Revolution (1/8/06)*
> Always liked this match but I don't think I ever fully appreciated it until this viewing. Then again maybe I did I just can't remember because I haven't seen it in years and I have a terrible memory. Point is this deserves a lot of praise as a match which works an injury angle (Show's broken hand) brilliantly with two great individual performances. Portraying agony throughout a match isn't something you can associate with Big Show too often but he's excellent doing that here. His hand looked seriously fucked up and he sold it to perfection from start to finish. Hunter is really good as the sadistic heel, never letting up on the injury and constantly punishing Show with simple yet brutal looking offense. Dug just about everything they did. Great match.


You seen their Raw rematch? Really good stuff too http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport#.UQrdN7-fGSo


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hunter was in prime GOAT HEEL form in that match. Another one I'd like to see again.

edit And the Raw rematch, thanks Cal.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rated Show/HHH ***1/2. Great stuff indeed. 

Elimination Chamber 2011 thoughts?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit SD 2003 - ****1/4
> DAMN.


AWESOME match and I give it the same rating.



The Lady Killer said:


> I've stricken that match from my memory.


Too bad that match exists, just as much as Taker and HHH's classic at King of the Ring 02 exists, CAL. And just as much as Chris Benoit exists, VINCE! 



Big Z said:


> You seen their Raw rematch? Really good stuff too http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport#.UQrdN7-fGSo


Is that the double count out match? Not a rematch as much as it is a WM main event qualifier. Oh yeah, another good match between them. Too bad we never got anything of the sort between Show and HBK. (they went against each other in 05 but it lasted about 4 minutes before HHH hit Shawn with a chair)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Luckily I never saw HHH/Taker.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> You seen their Raw rematch? Really good stuff too http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport#.UQrdN7-fGSo


That's the one that ends in a double countout right? Yeah I watched that recently. Really good indeed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Elimination Chamber 2011 thoughts?


Kofi/Del Rio - ★★½
Miz/Lawler - ★★¼
SD Chamber - ★★★¾
Raw Chamber - ★★★¼

Haven't seen any of it in almost 2 years, though. Remember being pissed that Orton got eliminated first in the Raw main event.



The Lady Killer said:


> Luckily I never saw HHH/Taker.


Go watch it ASAP! Don't let CAL's anti-HHH bias prevent you from enjoying this classic match-up.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Royal Rumble
World Heavyweight Championship
Edge(c) vs. Dolph Ziggler*

_Vickie bans the spear before things can begin. If Edge uses the spear, he loses the title. I wasn’t very keen on face Edge and don’t have much recollection of this match. Things begin with the veteran Edge controlling the pace and getting a bunch of nearfalls. Ziggler takes his chance with a neck breaker off the ropes and finally get a foothold in the match. It’s all Ziggler now, working on the neck of Edge and locking in a couple of sleeper holds. Edge manages to get some offence in with a small comeback to no avail. Dolph lands another aggressive neck breaker. He goes back to the sleeper hold. Fans trying to keep Edge alive but Ziggler is still in control and sends Edge flying into the barricade on the outside. Back in the ring again and Ziggler locks in another sleeper hold. You can’t half tell he’s fond of these. Edge tries to make a comeback and both of them have a nasty crossbody collision in the middle of the ring. Ref starts the count, they’re up at around 4 and this time Edge starts to build momentum until he walks into a jaw breaker counter. Things are starting to sway back and forth now. Ziggler tries for the fame asser which is countered into a sweet powerbomb. Edge goes to the top and aims for a crossbody only to be countered and rolled up for the pin. Very close near fall. Beautiful dropkick from Ziggly. Edge kicks out again and locks in some variation of a sharpshooter it looks like, not quite sure what it is tbh but DZ makes it to the ropes. He gets up and lands a HUGE fame asser but only manages a 2 count. The big spot comes now where Edge is considering the spear but remembers he can’t. Out of nowhere Ziggler goes for another sleeper but its countered only for Vickie to break up the count. She slaps Edge and keeps slapping him. Kelly Kelly to the rescue!! Yes, Kelly Kelly comes out and takes Vickei down. Ziggler hits the Zig Zag and goes for another sleeper. That has to be over 5 now. Edge swings him off and we get a ref bump. With the ref down and Vickie down on the outside, SPEAR SPEAR SPEAR! Edge hits the spear and retains his title while Vickie has a conniption on the floor. Too many sleeper holds. And I thought Orton was bad. _

****1/2*

*Monday Night Raw
Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz*

_First of all :lmao at jobber Bryan. It’s hard to think of him as the measly US Champion compared to what he is now. What great character development over the course of a year+. There is history here between these 2 going back to NXT and Bryan beat Miz for the US title. Match begins with Miz trying to let everybody know he’s the pro and Bryan is the rookie. Riley is on commentary for this btw and it’s pretty lol. However, speaking of commentary, I’m trying not to get distracted but holy fuck is it difficult with Cole talking over everything. I know commentary today isn’t the best but it’s A LOT better than what it was with stupid heel Cole ruining everything. Back to the match, Bryan hits a huge knee off the apron sending Miz into the barricade. He hits another high risk move, big missile dropkick off the top rope. Miz kicks out and lands a nasty fucking neck breaker/neck drop off the apron to the outside. Bad bump for Bryan. Neither of them are able to get a handle and dominate this thing. It’s back and forth with momentum swinging between the two. Great spot where Bryan goes mad with kicks to the chest but Miz ducks the last one and rolls him up for the pin. Nearfall. Match is starting to kick into another gear now. Miz lands a pancake and follows up with the SCF for the win. It didn’t get the chance to fully kick into that next gear but it’s still an OK match for what it was with some cool moments._

****1/4*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I badly want to watch HHH/Eugene but can't find a decent link anywhere.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Go watch it ASAP! Don't let CAL's anti-HHH bias prevent you from enjoying this classic match-up.


:StephenA2



Saint Dick said:


> I badly want to watch HHH/Eugene but can't find a decent link anywhere.


So awesome. I think I have that PPV recorded somewhere. Need to track it down because I've been wanting to watch it again as well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Eugene is just :lmao. I love that thing. He's such a dickhead. It's priceless.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> :StephenA2


:ti



Saint Dick said:


> I badly want to watch HHH/Eugene but can't find a decent link anywhere.


Try this link: http://vbox7.com/play:3e28214f&al=2&vid=417540

That's where I go whenever youtube or dailymotion fails.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge/Ziggler RR 2011- ****
HHH/Eugene SS 2004- ****

Both matches are fucking awesome. Edge/Ziggler is up there as one of Edge's best normal singles matches. HHH/Eugene used to be my highest match at ***3/4, but there wasn't really anything keeping me from going **** on it, besides my dislike for Eugene, but hey, he was actually really good in it and HHH was brilliant. IMO his best heel performance ever in a match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I actually thought Eugene was going to win and with the Pedigree no less. Not a good feeling to say the least.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Eugene beating HHH with a pedigree would've been something... hell, Eugene beating HHH at all would've been something.

Lesnar/Benoit SD 03- ****1/4... actually just cracks into my top 100. Awesome TV match, and what's amazing is it wasn't either man's best match of the year, nor Brock's best TV match of the year. It's kinda sad we didn't get to see Benoit take the title from Lesnar and he ends up going to Raw, but I suppose it worked out for the best with Eddie getting the WWE Title and Benoit getting the World Title. 

Big Show/HHH NYR 06- ***1/4... Good match. The whole broken hand thing worked really well and it feels like we don't see that enough anymore out of heels to win matches in main events. Even clean wins for heels seem to be more common.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eugene DID beat Triple a week or two after SummerSlam. Although Randy Orton interfered and hit Hunter with the sledgehammer. He was so over at the time but for some dumb reason they dropped the ball fast.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Eugene DID beat Triple a week or two after SummerSlam. Although Randy Orton interfered and hit Hunter with the sledgehammer. He was so over at the time but for some dumb reason they dropped the ball fast.


I actually meant at Summerslam, but I did forget that match happened. And then a week or so after that, HHH BURIES!!11 Eugene in a cage match, right?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> I actually meant at Summerslam, but I did forget that match happened. And then a week or so after that, HHH BURIES!!11 Eugene in a cage match, right?


Yep, that's also when they put this Eugene bullshit out of its misery. Completely inexcusable that they made Benoit look like such an idiot as his sidekick. As great as that year, specially Raw, was - there's still these terrible booking decisions that would make anyone go insane just by thinking WHY they did that.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep, that's also when they put this Eugene bullshit out of its misery. Completely inexcusable that they made Benoit look like such an idiot as his sidekick. As great as that year, specially Raw, was - there's still these terrible booking decisions that would make anyone go insane just by thinking WHY they did that.


2004, a GREAT year for Raw?

Holy hell.

Raw is Eugene for the summer.
Kane raping Lita and then Lita having a miscarriage that led to the push of GENE SNITSKY.
HHH completely burying Orton after winning the WHC
Ortons completely flopped baby-face run.
Boring as shit 20 minute HHH promos every show.
Chris Beniot playing second fiddle to everything ever while WHC then thrown in the midcard after losing the belt.
HHH V HBK feud going on forever trying to be EPICZ.


I could go on.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It certainly wasn't without its faults but for all the bad, there's lots of awesome stuff. Great matches most weeks, Benoit's title run (second fiddle or not, it's a rare sight!), Orton's rise and great IC title run, Christian & Trish was a good pairing, awesome final months after a slow Eugene-heavy summer with several challengers in the title scene and other memorable moments like Rock's few appearances (specially the Orton segment).

I admit the diva search stuff, Gene Snitsky and Eugene were fucking terrible but there was too much good stuff for me to just dismiss it all. So good that I might have to go and watch it all again. And it was certainly better than 2003 which was all Triple H and his ring work was mostly shit then.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> It certainly wasn't without its faults but for all the bad, there's lots of awesome stuff. Great matches most weeks, Benoit's title run (second fiddle or not, it's a rare sight!), Orton's rise and great IC title run, Christian & Trish was a good pairing, awesome final months after a slow Eugene-heavy summer with several challengers in the title scene and other memorable moments like Rock's few appearances (specially the Orton segment).
> 
> I admit the diva search stuff, Gene Snitsky and Eugene were fucking terrible but there was too much good stuff for me to just dismiss it all. So good that I might have to go and watch it all again.* And it was certainly better than 2003 which was all Triple H and his ring work was mostly shit then*.


Your certainly right on that. Good fucking god HHH at his worst FOR A WHOLE YEAR.

I ran away to SD where Angle, Lesnar, Undertaker, Eddie, Benoit etc were tearing it up.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3zlPJZ1hM4

You can see the YEAH1993 sign at the VERY beginning of this video to the left of that big FEED ME MORE sign :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

No Starbuck sign?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, totally spotted you standing up and waving too :lmao.

No BIG Z sign though. I am disappointed.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sorry, Starbuck. I only did YEAH1993 because it has been a running gag since he joined. 

NEXT TIME

edit Yeah, I don't think I was waving, I was motioning for Cesaro to run away up the ramp. If you watch the full match you can see/hear me yell GET ON HIM CESARO when he's owning Ryback on the outside.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You managed to get seats that close on the actual day of the show? lolsmackdown


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I bought that ticket literally hours before the show started :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

San Diego right? I have family there. Nice place. Was the show any good? Might watch tomorrow.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, San Diego. I love it here. 

Show had its moments. Ziggler/Del Rio main event is definitely worth checking out, as are my signs/shenanigans.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I guess I'll have to watch it then. TLK. What a draw 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Smackdown 24/3/2006*

Battle Royal - ★★
- For the final spot in the MITB match, here's a battle royal to decide it. Finlay and Matt Hardy are already in from the Smackdown side of things. This battle royal is pretty boring, though. Consisting pretty much exclusively of midcarders and jobbers. Lashley beats MNM to win his spot in MITB.

Finlay vs Rey Mysterio - ★★★¼
- Not quite as good as it could have been. A bit slower than I would've hoped for but still good work by both men. They get 16 minutes to go and the finish comes from Orton doing one of the best run-ins ever. Finlay distracts the ref which results in Orton running into the ring, catching Mysterio mid-air for an RKO and then walking to the back without a single fuck given.

Chris Benoit vs William Regal - ★★½
- Would have been good but in 4 minutes, they can only do so much. Just what you expect with a lot of stiffness and mat wrestling. As always, Benoit wins instantly with the Crossface.

Mark Henry vs Kurt Angle - ★¾
- Mark Henry is such a waste of space at this part of Smackdown. Some of the best members of the roster in Angle and Taker are constantly occupied with him when they could've spent those PPV matches/feuds with better members of the roster. As for the match, it's boring, slow and resthold heavy. Orton once again does a run in and costs Angle the match.

Now it's bed time!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

shoulda gotten a sign that said snowflakes breh

or that "nancy deserved it" 8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3zlPJZ1hM4
> 
> You can see the YEAH1993 sign at the VERY beginning of this video to the left of that big FEED ME MORE sign :lmao


Is that where you were sitting during SmackDown (dumb question prob but I'm not totally sure how this stuff works)? Did Lillian Garcia come ALL that way to ask what 'TLK' meant? I've been watching and Orton/Barrett just finished (yuck, btw) and I haven't spotted any of your signs. 

Regardless of anything, a Yeah1993 sign made TV and my life has less pieces left to complete the puzzle.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yep that's where I was all night, bummer that the signs haven't been caught yet. Keep watching for them. 

And yes, Lilian walked all the way over to me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

YES. Saw 'TLK = GOAT' during Rio/Ziggy. :mark: Are you the dude with the beard who clapped when Big E knocked Rio off the top rope (nasty bump, too)?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SD finished. Saw 'TLK = GOAT', 'YEAH1993' and 'MEET ME IN RANTS'.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

YES. Was afraid MEET ME IN RANTS didnt make it. Did you see/hear me yelling LETS GO ZIGGLER during the main event?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I heard some 'let's go Ziggler' chants and one guy who seemed to be louder than everyone else. Probably you. 

'meet me in rants' was only for a real quick second. 'MEET' is there for a good few, though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Re-watched Main Event atm. 

TBHAYLEY sign still gets me. Yeah1993 is in perfect view. He HAD to see it if you saw Main Event.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Can't believe I'll be watching Smackdown just to get a peak of a sign made by someone off the internet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's where the WWE has fallen to. Bless Greg for the FUN.

----------

*WWE Main Event 1/30/13*

1) Ryback vs Antonio Cesaro ~ **1/4


2) Tensai vs Titus O'Neil ~ **​
Best overall main event of the year. Not only b/c of TLK. The matches legit had entertainment value for me. Where as so far the only match I've liked from the program all year was the really good Sheamus vs Ziggler match. At least this gave me two fun bouts. Cesaro gets Ryback to what is his best non-CM Punk match within the company and Tensai vs O'Neil was a decent big guy smash em up type affair. Plus, Tensai won. Goofy face attachment or not, I'll take it. TENSAI.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My Top 5 Main Event... Main Events:

1 - Miz/Ziggler
2 - Sheamus/Ziggler
3 - Sheamus/Punk
4 - Orton & Car Stereo/ADR & PTP
5 - Sheamus/Barrett

I guess we could say either Sheamus or Ziggler is Mr. Main Event right now


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I liked Sheamus/Ziggler, more then Miz/Ziggler. That missile dropkick of Dolph was awesome


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Miz/Ziggler is my favourite, since their chemistry was superb, Miz actually looked decent in there, great selling from BOTH, and this had the curiosity factor since it had never happened before, whereas Sheamus/Ziggler has happened 100 times in the past. Still a great match nonetheless. I'd rank both around ***1/2-3/4 range.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Ziggler vs Miz was a really good match. Loads of fun there. Not sure what my favorite has been. Either that match or probably Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars from 12/19. I loved that match.

Honorable mentions go to Sheamus vs Ziggler _(1/9/13)_, Sheamus vs Barrett _(11/7/12)_, & Cena/Sandow _(11/28)_

Didn't like that 6 man tag with Orton/Luchadores vs ADR/Prime Time Players. Very blah.

Cesaro has brought some fun to the show too. At this rate he'll be on it weekly.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Team Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars was a bit too long. It had more then 20 minutes if i remember correctly


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

17:50

Fact it got lots of time is what made it work. It was their best match vs each other and the only one to exceed past "solid."


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> Firstly, the biggest change is that the Top 20 Divas Countdown has now been dropped and a brand new addition has been made titled “Midsouth”, which we can only presume will be a DVD set focusing on the History of Mid-South Wrestling/UWF, and all being well this will be released on September 10th.


MID-SOUTH DVD :mark:


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Must buy.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

More like "must torrent".


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

So WTF why did I wait so long to watch Punk/Bryan from OTL? I have been feeling disconnected from the product (and, admittedly, am a Rumble-Mania fan) but Punk is my guy, and Bryan is my number 2 (typical IWC fan? who gives a fuck). But what they did at OTL just absolutely blew me away. Incredible.

For me, I put that on par with the work Angle/Benoit did, esp at their Rumble match. I'm just a sucker for crazy holds, and that Mexican Surfboard was probably the best I've seen since the 90s. Bryan's psychology was awesome, the technical wrestling was great. And it had a big match feel. 

I really hate the YES! gimmick, but man he played it perfectly. Lots of swagger with it (Will they ever go back to the LaBell lock? please?). I liked the ending, not so crazy about the Punk tap but whatever. It was a near perfect match, best match I've seen in a long time... I go back to the triple threat at XX and Lesnar/Angle. Just really cool fucking wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> MID-SOUTH DVD :mark:


WHAT PERFECT TIMING FOR ME. :mark:

:lmao @ it originally meant to be a DVD on Divas. Went from the biggest load of "who cares" to something that's been needed on DVD for years. I guess Watts managed to get a hold of his collection again.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

LOL commentary of the year at 0:22. "Oh, man! GOD DAMN"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Video cutting off TLK wanting Cesaro to walk up the ramp = no buys.

I'm totally going to milk this too.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finally someone did a screen shot for one of the signs. :mark:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Haha I keep cracking up every time that sign pops up.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

YES :lmao

someone get BULLY in here


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown tonight. Gonna see how much you :mark: for DOLPH.

2 beers, 3 beers in I presume?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, had some VODKA with some random Cena haters in the parking lot before the show, then had 2 tall beers inside. 

DOLPH


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

He was the only one cheering emphatically in the front row when Dolph kicked out of a very near fall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Think the kids next to him were Hispanic. It was never going to work for Dolph there.

If only I was there with the PINK shirt.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah DOLPH didn't stand a chance w/his opponent being Del Rio and San Diego being 30 mins away from Mexico.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

For the first time in months outside of Rock's first SD appearance this year, I'm gonna watch SD on TV. 10 minutes to go for me. 

TLK>Dwayne Johnson.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Greg are you a CHARGERS fan?

And we need more people on this forum getting premium seating for shows. Makes SD so much more exciting.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Get someone to bring with them two plain square shaped signs: one red and one green. Every time a guy does something good hold up the green sign, and red sign for bad.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> Greg are you a CHARGERS fan?
> 
> And we need more people on this forum getting premium seating for shows. Makes SD so much more exciting.


Yeah. They suck, though. 



THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Get someone to bring with them two plain square shaped signs: one red and one green. Every time a guy does something good hold up the green sign, and red sign for bad.


REP


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, they do.

Greg, forgot to ask: how were the Saturday Morning Slam matches? If you were paying attention as it is. On paper they have potential to be FUN.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Get someone to bring with them two plain square shaped signs: one red and one green. Every time a guy does something good hold up the green sign, and red sign for bad.


:lmao That's a fucking awesome idea.

As for the Chargers, TLK, they got WHISENHUNT as their OC now and I'm a big fan of him. I actually own two Chargers jerseys too. DAT POWDER BLUE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I have a powder blue RIVERS jersey but he blew dick this year 

edit Eh, nothing special. Kaitlyn looked pretty amazing (physically, not ring-wise).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's a given.

Kaitlyn live too, eh. TLK shows up to WWE tapings and nearly every Diva comes out of the woodwork. That's not by accident. _(Lillian. I'm looking at you. SLUT)_


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Don't you talk about my Lil that way. 

(Bitch fuckin' blushed when I told her what TLK stood for)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lol

THIS FUCKING GUY


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Don't you talk about my Lil that way.
> 
> (Bitch fuckin' blushed when I told her what TLK stood for)


My dad would be jealous as fuck. :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Don't you talk about my Lil that way.
> 
> (Bitch fuckin' blushed when I told her what TLK stood for)


"The Lillian Killer" or "The Latina Killer" would have made her jump you right then and there. Would have made wwe.com then you would become a bigger draw than you already are.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I will a little too inebriated/turned on for cleverness of that nature, but touché.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Watched some matches from Jericho's DVD

Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (No Mercy '01) - ****1/2
Chris Jericho vs. Stone Cold (Vengeance '01) - ***1/2
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero (Fall Brawl '97) - ****


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Well Smackdown was a ton of fun


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hope TLK saw that guy.

oh, and Jericho vs Eddie from Fall Brawl '97 might be my second favorite WCW Cruiserweight match ever.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Well Smackdown was a ton of fun


Most definitely. LOL this dude already has a nickname "*THE* Impressed Guy".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You got to love fans like that. FREAKING OUT


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched Survivor Series '12 with a couple friends tonight and actually really enjoyed it.

Team Brodus vs Team Tensai - ***1/4
Eve vs Kaitlyn - *3/4
Cesaro vs Truth - **
Sheamus vs Show - ***3/4
Team Zig vs Team Foley - ***
Cena vs Ryback vs CM Punk - ***3/4

Really liked the main event this time around and overall it's a really fun show, imo. Felt that the Ziggler/Foley team match had loads of potential and fell short though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think the opposite of you regarding Team Foley/Team Zig: I thought that match reached its potential (despite the short eliminations of Sandow and Kane), with many star-making performances, especially for Ziggler. Not to mention it was the more relevant SS Elimination match since, what, Team Rated RKO/Team DX from 2006? Or even Team Raw/Team SD. I, tbh, ranked this match ****.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match hardly meant anything. It was changed mid way and it went from meaning to main event the PPV to becoming second rate. It's only purpose was to elevate Ziggler.

Slamming through more 2010 stuff from WWE and half way though Over The Limit 2010. Saw this once last year and wow. Never dawned on me till now how much of a an "old school" vibe it gives off. Dare I say even a southern style type of appeal. I'll use that term when I pimp the great Punk vs Mysterio match on the show (tomorrow probably) Quite a bit of FUN so far thanks to the right people. It's too bad as I write this up the horrible (iirc) Edge vs Randy Orton match is on tap. Vengeance 2004, this is not.

Damn. Kind of ended this positive post on a bit of a negative. Have to change that. WWE CIRCA 2010!!!!! :mark:

That's better.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

From last night SD:

Rey&Sin Cara vs Team Hell No- ***
Dolph Ziggler vs ADR- ** 1/2
Jack Swagger vs Kofi Kingston- **


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Yeah1993 said:


> "The Lillian Killer" or "The Latina Killer" would have made her jump you right then and there. Would have made wwe.com then you would become a bigger draw than you already are.


I really don't think a name like The Lillian Killer coupled with that beard would yield exactly that kind of a response Yeah.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What's wrong with the BEARD?!? (Actually just shaved it finally)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bryan Danielson wouldn't approve.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nah it got too itchy. That was the longest I've ever let it go, usually just keep 5 o'clock shadow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Should get the Lennon beard one of these days.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Extreme Rules 2010:*
Tag Team Turmoil: *
Punk/Rey: ***1/4
JTG/Shad: 1/4*
Swagger/Orton: ***1/4
HHH/Sheamus: ***1/2
Michelle/Beth: DUD
Jericho/Edge: ****
Cena/Batista: ****1/2

Very good show. Despite three bad matches, everything else was ***+ and that's really what you need to know. Most of the matches here were notches above their respective WM 26 predecessors, especially Jericho/Edge and Cena/Batista. And Swagger/Orton was BY FAR the best singles match of Swagger's horrendous WHC reign. 

Funilly enough, Extreme Rules has always been rising in quality: 2009 had Jericho/Mysterio, the sick Edge/Jeff Ladder Match and one or two other decent matches but nothing else, 2010 was 60/40 for good and bad things but very good overall, 2011 was really fucking consistent and pretty damn great, and 2012 was seen as one of the greatest B-level PPV's of all time.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Any WWE DVD's that are a "must buy"?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's worth it just for the 6-man alone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seems to be the show we've been the most spot on with up to this point. Strong show. Much like Extreme Rules 2011 the lesser matches were simply there and had no real negative effect on the show. That's where Extreme Rules 2012 had the advantage. Not only did it have three legit MOTYC on it and a really good upper card match; it had an undercard that delivered in nearly every way it should have. Divas was over in a flash so I could probably say that was done in the best way possible too.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> It's worth it just for the 6-man alone.


That's what I thought when I saw it at my local Wal-Mart, but I didn't have enough to get it this week due to already deciding what DVD we were going to get (it was non-wrestling related).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed, Extreme Rules is the most spot on PPV nowadays too, I'd agree with that. Even moreso than WM. It might just be the most important B-show PPV of the year right now (even though Elimination Chamber and Night Of Champions are contenders too).

I've just noted at how amazing 2004 was for PPV Main Events. With the exception of The Great American Bash, every PPV Main Event was good that year, many of them amazing:
RR - RR Match - ****1/2
NWO - Lesnar/Eddie - ****3/4
WM - HHH/Benoit/HBK - *****
BL - Benoit/HHH/HBK - ****3/4
JD - Eddie/JBL - ****1/4
BB - HHH/HBK - ****1/2 (IMO that's a great match)
TGAB - Taker/Dudleyz - 1/4* (The only bad one but not DUD worthy)
Vengeance - Benoit/HHH - ***3/4
SSlam - Benoit/Orton - ****1/2
UF - Orton/HHH - ***1/2
NM - JBL/Taker - ***1/2 (Boring but very good overall IMO as well)
TT - Orton/Flair - ****
SS - Team Orton/Team HHH - ****
AM - JBL/Taker/Eddie/Booker - ****

Might be the one of the most consistent years for PPV Main Events ever.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Pleasantly surprised by Tensai vs Titus O'Football from Mainevent :weezy


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Macho Man V Ultimate Warrior WM 7 - ****1/4 STARS

Post Match - *************************************** STARS


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Macho Man V Ultimate Warrior WM 7 - ****1/4 STARS
> 
> Post Match - *************************************** STARS


THIS RIGHT HERE.

God I love that match, and the aftermath even more. So much I'd even rank it ****3/4, maybe even *****.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Indeed, Extreme Rules is the most spot on PPV nowadays too, I'd agree with that. Even moreso than WM. It might just be the most important B-show PPV of the year right now (even though Elimination Chamber and Night Of Champions are contenders too).
> 
> I've just noted at how amazing 2004 was for PPV Main Events. With the exception of The Great American Bash, every PPV Main Event was good that year, many of them amazing:
> RR - *RR Match *- ****1/2
> ...


Elimination Chamber has had one stand out event in 2011. Others haven't done much for me by comparison to Extreme Rules. 2010's was fun and 2012's was bad.

Bolded the ones I think are GREAT. Some were good _(Survivor Series, Armageddon, Vengeance, & Bad Blood)_ and the others were bad. _(No Mercy, Unforgiven, & Great American Bash)_


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Going to restart my WWF 2000 project later today. For those of you who do projects like this, do you just watch every show in order or do you skip around? 

I'm picking up on the Smackdown after the RADICALZ made their debut. I remember hearing that the HHH/Benoit match on this Smackdown is p. good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2004 PPV main events:

Royal Rumble - _Royal Rumble_ - ★★★★½
Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero - _No Way Out_ - ★★★★¾
Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - _Wrestlemania XX_ - ★★★★★
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - _Backlash_ - ★★★★½
Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - _Judgment Day_ - ★★★★½
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - _Bad Blood_ - ★¾
Undertaker vs Dudley Boyz - _The Great American Bash_ - ½★
Chris Benoit vs Triple H - _Vengeance_ - ★★★¾
Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton - _SummerSlam_ - ★★★★½
Randy Orton vs Triple H - _Unforgiven_ - ★★★½
JBL vs Undertaker - _No Mercy_ - ★★★¼
Randy Orton vs Ric Flair - _Taboo Tuesday_ - ★★★★
Team Orton vs Team HHH - _Survivor Series_ - ★★★½
JBL vs Undertaker vs Booker T vs Eddie Guerrero - _Armageddon_ - ★★★½

Other than _Bad Blood_ (poor) and _Great American Bash_ (awful), all the main events ranged from good to great.

EDIT:



> Going to restart my WWF 2000 project later today. For those of you who do projects like this, do you just watch every show in order or do you skip around?


I watch every show in order. Feels more 'complete' that way specially since I missed these years when they took place initially.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got Eddie/Brock (ha eddie brock VENOM) at the full five stars. So much to love about that match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Any thoughts on Angle/Taker and Austin/Hunter from Survivor Series 2000? It's been fucking ages since I watched those. I remember liking what I saw.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I remember Austin/H being good but like you it's been ages since I saw it so I'm not sure. Actually, I tend to confuse that match with their No Mercy '99 match so I have no idea.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

GAME DVD Sept. 24 :hb


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I pray that HHH vs. Jericho (Last Man Standing) will make that set. That match needs more attention. 

Austin vs. Triple H at SS 2000 was an average match to me. The typical Attitude Era style brawl (and they've had better for my money) without it being too interesting and the stupidity of where their storyline ends up doesn't make the thing better either. I don't know how Angle/Taker turned out though


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched a LOW episode earlier, the *Factions* one, good to hear from Flair, and of course The Horseman was the main stay of the whole episode (rightly so), but NO MENTION OF THE DANGEROUS ALLIANCE :shock :no: (i assume they can be called a faction/stable??)


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

So, I watched William Regal vs. Chris Benoit from Velocity 2005 earlier. GREAT match, imo.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/changes-to-2013-wwe-dvd-schedule-triple-h-war-games/34396/


The Best of WCW Monday Nitro Volume 2	Feb 12, 2013
Royal Rumble 2013	Feb 26, 2013
Bret “Hit Man” Hart: The Dungeon Collection	Mar 5, 2013
Elimination Chamber 2013	Mar 19, 2013
For All Mankind: The Life & Career of Mick Foley	Apr 16, 2013
The Best of In Your House	Apr 30, 2013
WrestleMania 29	May 14, 2013
Top 25 Rivalries	May 28, 2013
Extreme Rules 2013	Jun 18, 2013
Best of War Games	Jun 25, 2013
TBD PPV	July 16, 2013
ECW Unreleased Vol. 2	Jul 30, 2013
Money In The Bank 2013	Aug 13, 2013
Best of MSG	Aug 27, 2013
Midsouth	Sep 10, 2013
SummerSlam 2013	Sep 17, 2013
Triple H (Biography)	Sep 24, 2013
Goldberg (Match Compilation)	Oct 8, 2013
Night of Champions 2013	Oct 15, 2013
Money In The Bank Anthology (Match Compilation)	Oct 29, 2013
Over the Limit 2013	Nov 5, 2013
History of WWE	Nov 19, 2013
Hell in a Cell 2013	Nov 26, 2013
Raw 20th Anniversary Box Set	Dec 3, 2013
Survivor Series 2013	Dec 24, 2013
Best WWE PPV’s	Dec 31, 2013

Some goodies in here


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ether said:


> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/changes-to-2013-wwe-dvd-schedule-triple-h-war-games/34396/
> 
> The Best of WCW Monday Nitro Volume 2
> Bret “Hit Man” Hart: The Dungeon Collection
> ...


These for me plz


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JoeRulz said:


> Any thoughts on Angle/Taker and Austin/Hunter from Survivor Series 2000? It's been fucking ages since I watched those. I remember liking what I saw.


Austin/Trip blows, but I watched Angle/Taker probably around 6 months ago and thought it was really fun. I've seen a lot of 'this isn't good' talk for it which is surprising. I like it a bunch.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Survivor Series 2012
18:26 Team Brodus vs Team Tensai - **1/4
7:00 Kaitlyn vs Eve -.*3/4
6:57 Antonio Cesaro vs R-Truth -.*1/2
14:42 Sheamus vs Big Show - ***1/4
23:42 Team Foley vs Team Ziggler - ***
17:59 John Cena vs CM Punk vs Ryback - ***

Overall: 7/10 - Very entertaining second half with a not to bad first half. I hated the booking of the first elimination match. Also Tensai eliminated Brodus with his jumping senton off the types and then Gabriel kicks out of the same move. It made no sense and just seemed ridiculous to me. Sheamus/Show was MOTN and these two work great together. I was also disappointed in Truth/Cesaro. I expected a better match from those two.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Okay rewatched the rumble today.

Royal Rumble 2013:
Show/Del Rio: Didn't like their Smackdown match that much and didn't like this AT ALL. The "spear through the barricade" spot is getting real old. The finish was one bit of fuckery i could have done without. **1/2*
Hell No/Rhodes Scholars: Meh, pretty standard tag team match. Could have been on any Raw episode. ****
Rumble match: Started off solidly with JERICHO returning out of fucking no where. But that was about it, jesus this dragged on A LOT. The final three was a terrible choice. Jericho/Cena/Ziggler would have been pretty decent for myself. Ryback at #30 was very underwhelming as was his "last 2 mini match" with Cena. Cena wins, screams he's going to Wrestlemania. Yawn.

Now THIS was why i wanted to watch this event. *Punk/Rock*
Urghhhhhhhhhh this was awful.
A match with no structure or pace to it, the table spot wasn't their fault and i enjoyed the Rock Bottom on the floor but that was about it. The lights off spot was one of the worst i think i've ever seen WWE do, it was cringeworthy, as was Rock's hero speech before McMahon (one of the worst faces) was going to strip Punk of the title. **3/4* 

Yeahhh, this was not good at all. Hope more for the Chamber PPV, i mean there's EC matches so it has a good head start but 2012's event was awful so who knows?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm surprised it took Triple H so long to finally get a DVD.

I really hope HHH/Austin 3 Stages of Hell from No Way Out makes it on the set.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

My thoughts on Royal Rumble 2013:

*Del Rio vs. Big Show - *** 

Nothing much to talk about here. The only nice spot was Del Rio getting chokeslammed off the stage through a table. Everything else was pretty uneventful and I disagree with opening the show this way. The ending pissed me off and that's about it. I still haven't even seen their Smackdown match, but this match kind of turned me off from that idea. I also think it's stupid to have a random Last Man Standing match for the title on a B show and having a guy who wasn't doing anything win the title out of nowhere... and then they did ANOTHER last man standing for the PPV. This is just confusing.

*Bryan/Kane vs. Rhodes Scholars - **1/2* 

This was alright. Pretty much TV quality. Bryan made the match watchable for me, everyone else was pretty dull.

*Royal Rumble Match - *****

I personally found this to be one of the better Rumble matches in years. Jericho coming out at number 2 was a huge surprise and got a tremendous pop from the crowd. Having Ziggler and Jericho carry most of the match was a pleasant surprise... and I enjoyed myself a lot with this match until the end. The ending felt anti-climactic and I didn't care for Cena winning at all. It was a dumb move to have Ryback get number 30... giving him an advantage over everyone else only to have him last 2 minutes and easily get eliminated by Cena. Pointless. 

*Rock vs. CM Punk - ***1/2*

I was expecting more from this match. There weren't any dramatic near falls and the finish just didn't do much for me. The Rock looked rusty, exhausted, and was over-selling just about everything Punk was giving him. This was definitely a "good" match just not the classic I was expecting.

Overall, pretty underwhelming show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOON The Legend said:


> Going to restart my WWF 2000 project later today. For those of you who do projects like this, do you just watch every show in order or do you skip around?
> 
> I'm picking up on the Smackdown after the RADICALZ made their debut. I remember hearing that the HHH/Benoit match on this Smackdown is p. good.


In order is key, imo. It helps you build towards everything as it originally played out.



JoeRulz said:


> Any thoughts on Angle/Taker and Austin/Hunter from Survivor Series 2000? It's been fucking ages since I watched those. I remember liking what I saw.


Austin vs HHH is poor attitude era nonsense. Pass on it. Angle vs Taker was solid. A much better match from where they first tried at Fully Loaded back in July.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

What are Triple H's best TV matches from 2000? I have seen his PPV stuff from that year, but I'd like to take a look as his free TV matches too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alim said:


> What are Triple H's best TV matches from 2000? I have seen his PPV stuff from that year, but I'd like to take a look as his free TV matches too.


The WWF Title match vs Jericho, the matches with TAKA Michinoku and the insane 10-Man Tag in February are the stand-outs, I'd say.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Alim said:


> What are Triple H's best TV matches from 2000? I have seen his PPV stuff from that year, but I'd like to take a look as his free TV matches too.


The 10 men tag with DX and Radicalz vs Too Cool and Cactus and Rock. Also, the Tag with benoit against Jerich and Rock on Raw before Backlash.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm gonna chuck in his match with Tazz on Smackdown to go with the matches listed.

The Rikishi one might be decent too. iirc it had some drama in it that made you almost believe Rikishi would beat him. Not on the levels of Taka though b/c that one was the BEST _(or even Brooklyn Brawler despite that match being nothing of value)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of TV matches, Top 5 Smackdown matches?

Mine in no particular order:
Austin vs Benoit WWF Title
Rey vs JoMo IC Title
Orton vs Christian I
Angle vs Lesnar Iron Man
Angle & Benoit vs Rey & Edge 2 out of 3 falls


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 SD Matches:

(****3/4)
1) Lesnar vs. Angle SD 03 Ironman match
2) Undertaker vs. Angle SD 03 (two weeks or so before the Lesnar/Angle match)
(****1/4)
3) Undertaker vs. Angle SD 06
4) Undertaker vs. Orton SD 05
5) Eddie vs. Rey SD 05

Edit: Still have to see Austin/Benoit for the title.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> Top 5 SD Matches:
> 
> (****3/4)
> 1) Lesnar vs. Angle SD 03 Ironman match
> ...


Austin/Benoit is fucking amazing. Real good watch.

Gotta wonder how great a Taker/Lesnar/Angle Triple Threat in 03 could be :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio from May of 2005 not making a list yet is disheartening.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Forgot about that one, replacing Orton/Christian I with it. Watched it a couple of days ago, and I did found it better than the Ladder Match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 Smackdown matches.

1. Austin vs Benoit (31/5/01) - ★★★★¾
2. TLC III (24/5/01) - ★★★★½
3. Undertaker vs Angle (4/9/03) - ★★★★½
4. Benoit vs Orton (27/1/06) - ★★★★½
5. Lesnar vs Angle (18/9/03) - ★★★★½

Mysterio/Eddie (23/6/05), Benoit/Lesnar (4/12/03), Undertaker/Angle (3/3/06) and Orton/Undertaker (16/9/05) are all worthy contenders too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Forgot about that one, replacing Orton/Christian I with it. Watched it a couple of days ago, and I did found it better than the Ladder Match.


Replacing it over the overrated Christian/Orton match = (Y)

Eddie vs Mysterio ladder match is solid. That's about it, imo. It hasn't held up over the years for me like it used to. Like *** level.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 SD Matches:

1. Undertaker Vs Angle 03 ****3/4 (seriously, with a proper finish I'd likely go the full 5 lol)
2. Benoit Vs Austin 01 ****3/4
3. Angle Vs Lesnar Iron Man 03 ****1/2
4. TLC III 01 ****1/2
5. Can't decide between Benoit/Orton 06 (NOT the no holds barred match), Eddie/Rey 05, Bangle/Redge 2/3 falls 02. All are ****1/2 for me though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> 1. Undertaker Vs Angle 03 ****3/4 (seriously, with a proper finish I'd likely go the full 5 lol)


(Y)

You aren't lying.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Replacing it over the overrated Christian/Orton match = (Y)
> 
> Eddie vs Mysterio ladder match is solid. That's about it, imo. It hasn't held up over the years for me like it used to. Like *** level.


Orton/Christian was in it only off the top of my head - about **** at best IMO. Benoit/Lesnar, Taker/Angle 03, Eddie/Rey Steel Cage, TLC III, Punk/Bryan II, etc. are above it. Great match IMO nonetheless.

The Ladder Match has a lot of what made HHH/Lesnar great - insane storytelling and heel/face work. Kayfabe wise, you could actually sympathize with Rey, you could actually root for the good guy there - that's perhaps one of the best things any match/storyline can achieve, and this did it right here flawlessly, despite the tasteless gimmick and build.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Orton/Christian was in it only off the top of my head - about **** at best IMO. Benoit/Lesnar, Taker/Angle 03, Eddie/Rey Steel Cage, TLC III, Punk/Bryan II, etc. are above it. Great match IMO nonetheless.
> 
> The Ladder Match has a lot of what made HHH/Lesnar great - insane storytelling and heel/face work. Kayfabe wise, you could actually sympathize with Rey, you could actually root for the good guy there - that's perhaps one of the best things any match/storyline can achieve, and this did it right here flawlessly, despite the tasteless gimmick and build.


***. Christian was rad in it. Orton did his role fine. It's nothing overly special outside of being a good match with a heartbreaking finish.

Dislike Brock vs Game quite a bit, myself. And I always found myself rooting for Eddie over Rey during that entire program. I wanted him to get the win. Earn that vindication. That's me. Of course the crowd felt otherwise. Eddie was such an amazing evil figure at the time. Even with that boneheaded addition to the storyline.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GAB was the only Eddie/Rey match where Dominic being part of the angle actually worked. And it was ALL down to Eddie. Guy was just incredible. Ladder match might not have been so bad if it wasn't sloppy and botchty in parts (LOL at WHERE THE FUCK IS VICKIE?). Cage match was way better than the ladder at least. Though it would probably be third "worst" of their 05 series with WM and the Ladder being below it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> ***. Christian was rad in it. Orton did his role fine. It's nothing overly special outside of being a good match with a heartbreaking finish.
> 
> Dislike Brock vs Game quite a bit, myself. And I always found myself rooting for Eddie over Rey during that entire program. I wanted him to get the win. Earn that vindication. That's me. Of course the crowd felt otherwise. Eddie was such an amazing evil figure at the time. Even with that boneheaded addition to the storyline.


Can't blame ya - who wouldn't root for Eddie fuckin Guerrero?... well, someone not named Kevin Nash I mean...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> Eddie vs Mysterio from May of 2005 not making a list yet is disheartening.


Fuck, can't believe I forgot that match. It was on my list as well, but I must've skipped over it. Awesome match, edited it in.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Vengeance 2003:
*Eddie/Benoit: ****1/2
Noble/Gunn: **3/4
APA Invitational: ***1/2
WGTT/Filthy Animals: ****1/4
Steph/Sable: 3/4*
Taker/Cena: ***3/4
Vince/Gowen: *
Lesnar/Angle/Show: ****1/2

Terrific show, 2nd to No Way Out 06 as the best SD PPV ever. Opener, Main Event and Tag Team Titles matches were amazing, Taker/Cena was very good too, and everything ranged from pretty good to poor but entertaining. Vince/Gowen was decent for what it was btw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> GAB was the only Eddie/Rey match where Dominic being part of the angle actually worked. And it was ALL down to Eddie. Guy was just incredible. Ladder match might not have been so bad if it wasn't sloppy and botchty in parts (LOL at WHERE THE FUCK IS VICKIE?). Cage match was way better than the ladder at least. Though it would probably be third "worst" of their 05 series with WM and the Ladder being below it.


Need to see the cage match again. Only saw it once back when it originally aired. It never made a set did it? I don't own Rey's Life of a Masked Man or Eddie's 3 disc set (</3) yet so maybe it's on one of those.



ATF said:


> Can't blame ya - who wouldn't root for Eddie fuckin Guerrero?... well, someone not named Kevin Nash I mean...


Eddie was the legit best.



The Rawk said:


> Fuck, can't believe I forgot that match. It was on my list as well, but I must've skipped over it. Awesome match, edited it in.


(Y)



ATF said:


> *Vengeance 2003:
> *Eddie/Benoit: ****1/2
> Noble/Gunn: **3/4
> APA Invitational: ***1/2
> ...


Vengeance > NWO '06, imo. It had a crowd that cared for every match - not just the main event. _(seriously, those fans at NWO can go to hell till the main event)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance 03:
Eddie/Benoit: ****
Noble/Gunn: **
APA Invitational: ***
WGTT/Filthy Animals: ***1/4
Steph/Sable: **
Taker/Cena: ***3/4
Vince/Gowen: 1/4*
Lesnar/Angle/Show: ***1/2



Spoiler: Vengeance 03 review



*WWE Vengeance 27/07/2003*

Haven't seen this show in full since it aired. Often brought up as one of the best PPV's, and certainly one of the best single brand PPV's or all time. Hopefully it can live up to the hype, and looking at the card, if the 3 or 4 matches that look potentially awesome hold up, then I can certainly see myself joining everyone in their claims of this being awesome .

*Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - United States Championship*

:mark: What a way to start off the event! These guys are 2 of the main reasons (along with Undertaker) that I sooo adored Smackdown during this tme period. Just a bunch of great WRESTLERS competing in the ring to prove themselves as the greatest WRESTLER while still being able to throw in personal rivalries and whatnot. Awesome booking 101. Heyman was in charge of SD around this time, right? 

They do a lot of trading holds back and forth with a few pin counters and whatnot too early on. Some people like that, some people don't. Personally, I enjoy it most of the time and I definitely enjoy it here. Helps that both men put in some little touches to everything they do to stop it being so robotic like you got in the Angle/Benoit matches. It not Regal/Finlay/Benoit, but its still good. Plus both men countering things plays into the fact they've known each other for so long, travelled the world, trained together and wrestled each other numerous times in the past. Always better to have an actual history like that when working an "equals" style match like this.

Eventually the back and forth action turns into an Eddie control segment. I love how he starts getting cocky and decides to chop Benoit... who returns the favour... so Eddie just walks over to him and gouges his eye out :lmao. Makes Eddie look like a DICK and plays into the buildup for this match, as Eddie tries to blind Benoit a week ago or something.

Eddie's control segment doesn't last nearly as long as I would have liked, but fuuuck, the whole finishing stretch is just tremendous. Overbooked? Yeah, probably, but good god its awesomely fun. Eddie tries to lie, cheat and steal the title on numerous occasions, the poor referee gets beat up about 3 times, and then Rhino charges in right at the end and GORES Benoit to hell. :lmao at Eddie's reaction. He sees Rhino running for the Gore and thinks he's aiming for HIM, so he just turns and cowers in hopes it won't be so bad, only to realise Benoit got hit. He shrugs his shoulders and takes advantage anyway, winning the US Title!

Awesome opener. Eddie was just incredible with his antics and facial expressions. Benoit was his usual self, which is a great wrestler and intense as fuck, and they work really well together here. These two guys are usually hit and miss together, but not here.

*Rating: *****


*Jamie Noble Vs Billy Gunn - Indecent Proposal Match*

If Noble wins... he gets to shag Torrie on Smackdown. Not every storyline can be a winner, but I'll be dammed if I wasn't invested in this and living vicariously through Jamie Noble .

Noble brings a briefcase with him that is apparently filled with sex toys and oils. Gunn steals it and opens it and we get a nice view of what's inside. Tazz claims that he stole Cole's briefcase .










Match itself is... well Noble is a great wrestler and Gunn is athletic so he bumps alright and hits a couple of nice moves lol. DDT from the ropes by Noble looked awesome, but Nidia made sure Gunn's leg was on the ropes, as she doesn't want her boyfriend sleeping with another women. In the end though, Torrie actually ends up costing Gunn the match by mistake, and she has to shag Noble on Smackdown! Totally remember that episode too lol. Crazy shit happens .

*Rating: ***


*APA Invitational*

A bar scene is build at one side of the stage, and its time for the APA ot beat the shit out of half the Smackdown roster! And the Easter Bunny. Brian Kendrick standing on the bar and dancing to people's theme music as they enter is awesome. Brother Love! Doink the Clown! Woooo!

Brother Love cuts a pretty awesome promo, then takes out 2 random people with a bar stool . Kendrick gets knocked from the bar through a table. LOL. Sean O'Haire punching the Easter Bunny in the face might be the greatest thing ever.

Match is... insane. People taking crazy arse bumps and drinking beer. Awesome. Ton of fun. APA win obviously . I think I might love this more than anyone else in existence.

*Rating: ****


*The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio - Tag Team Championship*

Hope this lives up to the hype!

Nope. Lol. It was good, but just way too moves-y for my liking. The stuff with Kidman's back was great and really could have been a turning point in the match, but it just didn't last nearly as long as I would have liked, and it wasn't long before Rey was back in the ring flying about. Felt like they were trying to capture the epicness of the No Mercy 2002 tag, and while they got the fast paced action down, they forgot to really tell a story too lol.

:lmao the "BULLSHIT" chant when Hass kicked out of a big double team move from Kidman and Mysterio. Also, HOLY SHIT. Cole calls his fans the Cole Miners! I didn't think he came up with that until his heel turn lol.

*Rating: ***1/4*


*Sable Vs Stephanie McMahon*

Well, time for a bad match on the card. No PPV can be perfect .

At least both women are hot. And wearing somewhat revealing outfits. Commentary is like on giant innuendo too. Makes it interesting to watch lol.

Part of me certainly liked this one .

In all seriousness though, its... not actually that bad. They have plenty of HATE~! and throw some stiff shots (slaps, forearms, elbows etc) no doubt to make it look as good as possible considering Steph isn't a wrestler and Sable is about 4 years past her prime. Gotta love Stephanie trying to get Sable's tits out. Again. She already did it on Smackdown, might as well do it now. Referee gives Sable is shirt to cover her up, while A-Train motherfucking RUNS OVER Stephanie to help Sable win. Holy fuck at that lol. Stephanie took it like a MAN. A very hot man. With tits. And a Vagina. A women, one might say.

*Rating: ***


*The Undertaker Vs John Cena*

Build up video for this match is great. Remember this feud pretty well from back in the day lol. Wasn't a fan of Cena even back then, but he definitely didn't suck in this feud. And from what I remember, he most certainly didn't suck in the match either.

This is all about respect, and Undertaker is determined to beat it out of Cena, and fuck does he do a great job early on. Some wicked shots from the Dead Man. Referee tries to get Undertaker away from Cena at some point and ends up jumping across the ring to get away from a very pissed off Phenom lol. Always love that spot in Undertaker matches .

Match actually looks like its going to be a total SQUASH, with Undertaker dominating Cena entirely and then landing a HUGE chokeslam, and going for the pin. Looked like it was over, but Undertaker wanted to punish Cena more so he picks him back up, which ends up being a HUGE mistake from the veteran! Cena then takes his time to expose one of the turnbuckles, and it looks like he took TOO long, as Undertaker gets back up and begins to destroy Cena again, but the turnbuckle comes into play and Cena gains control. Undertaker's ribs are the target of Cena's assault, and he does a great job working them over. Undertaker is bleeding internally, and keeps fighting back in desperation. He knows he needs to get back into this match and end it quickly, something he had the chance to do earlier but didn't follow up on.

Undertaker takes one hell of a beating, including a shot to the ribs with a chain and an F-U! He barely kicks out, and Cena gets majorly pissed off, and makes a mistake by mounting 'Taker in the corner, and gets a Last Ride! Match is over.

Great, great stuff. Another great example of Undertaker putting someone over without actually losing. Plus, he does get beat by Cena on Smackdown in a re-match not long after this. But yeah, Undertaker gets the win on PPV while Cena looks better than he ever has. Everyone is a winner here.

*Rating: ***3/4*


*Mr McMahon Vs Zack Gowen*

What do Mr McMahon and Andy have in common? They've both taken pleasure in screwing a cripple! 

Match is what it is. Mr McMahon beating up a one legged guy. One legged guy makes comeback and Vince bumps to the best of his ability. Didn't do much for me. Worst match on the show, and the only actual bad match on the show too. Vince's blade job is pretty much THE only thing that is good lol.

*Rating: 1/4**


*Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship*

Classic "Big Show Vs The World" start to this one, which is always a ton of fun. Even against two of the companies top stars at the time, Show looked like he could legit destroy them both and take the title if he wanted to, and that makes the match a whole lot more interesting. Show Vs Angle and Lesnar was a nice way to set up Lesnar and Angle working together to take out the bigger man (and they begin with weapon shots and then hit a double chokeslam!), and then move from there to both of them turning on each other because they both want the title.

Pretty sure Tazz calls Big Show a hooker at some point during this match lol. 

Lesnar hits a RUNNING POWERBOMB ON BIG SHOW. Ok, it was out of the corner, but still, he had the guy on his shoulders in a powerbomb position and RAN WITH HIM. Lesnar was a fucking beast. Big Show is hurt from that move, and then is finally taken out of the match for good with an Angle Slam through a table. Angle Vs Lesnar time! They became friends after the WM match, but this is for the title, and friendship don't mean SHIT.

Oh hey, Big Show does come back into this match lol. He breaks up Angle Vs Lesnar and double chokeslams both of them! Lesnar and Angle are up about 20 seconds later exchanging punches with each other. LOL. Angle hits the Angle Slam on Show, then on Lesnar and picks up the win. Didn't enjoy this as much as I did on last watch tbh, but its still a good triple threat match, and its a great piece of the Angle/Lesnar story which leads into SummerSlam superbly.

*Rating: ***1/2*


Overall, a fantastic PPV. Only ONE bad match on the card. Everything else is at the very least fun. Opener is MOTN, with Undertaker/Cena coming in close.



Edit: I think the cage match was on Eddie's 3 disc set. No idea about that Rey set as I don't own it. Maybe it isn't on any and I just watched it on my Eddie comp .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I should look it up right now. All I know is I need to own both sets regardless. I got two Hogan sets, but only one from Mysterio & ZERO from Eddie. Weird how this works out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've never gone out of my way to get the Rey set, match listings isn't nearly as :mark: as his first 3 disc set. Got both Eddie sets of course, and then a massive custom comp . Got the Hogan Unreleased set... because someone actually gave me that as payment for FOUR COPIED DISCS which was a good deal lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Vengeance 03 is such an awesome PPV. Opener and main event are classics. Taker/Cena is great too.

Another year I need to go back and watch is Smackdown 03 (and skip Raw). I was not as enthusiastic about matches as I've become recently so I should go back and watch it in case I've missed out on some great matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan's Unreleased set is fun. It came with the Savage set in a combo deal so I took it. It was a gift & no money was forked over by me either way :mark: _(lol @ the WCW matches that made it though. WWE 02 matches rock b/c they're so fun)_

Rey's second 3 disc set looks solid. Starts off great then gets flooded with too many latter WWE PPV matches. Own all of those so it's a bit of a turn off. I'll purchase it down the line for the ECW/WCW & WWE TV gems. It's worth a price to own the Smackdown matches vs Morrison & w/Batista vs MNM. I guess it shows Mysterio got the best out of Morrison much like Punker did.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Went through some 2003 gems, TV/PPV, and look what I found:

Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton @ Unforgiven - ****
Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show vs. The Undertaker - ***1/2
Lita vs. Victoria @ 1st ever Divas Cage Match - ***

HBK/Orton is only 2nd to the amazing SS 07 match, great match there. Lesnar/Taker/Show was very good, and Lita/VicTara was pretty good for what it was too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rey's set doesn't do much for me with the match listings. I'm not fond of anything he did in ECW. Was all MOVES AND SPOTS ZOMG and did nothing for me. Some WCW stuff is the same, so only a handful of WCW matches from him in general interest me. Then the WWE part of the DVD is mainly PPV matches that I'm either not too high on or already own. Then again it's only £6.99...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The HBK match is pretty much where Orton really started to find his way around the ring and shake off his greenness when he was first in Evolution and was only in squash matches. That said, he still provided us with a classic moment on the build-up to that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels vs Orton good. Nothing past that. I was let down despite liking it. ***

I liked what Orton did vs Van Dam from Armageddon '03 more.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton vs RVD Armageddon 03 is too at **** IMO now that you mention it.

Rewatching the DX vs Legacy matches. Remember their SummerSlam and Breaking Point matches being the likes of ***3/4 iirc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Summerslam is quite good. On the verge of reliving Breaking Point during this week so I'll get back to stating how I feel about that one. It's on a good note with me after two watches. Their HIAC match is pretty bad I have to say. I got it up to ** now, but that's only b/c I kind of liked what they tried to do with Legacy looking dominate. Only the poor easy finish for DX was completely bunk. It main evented for that? When the other two matches were better and have CHAMPIONSHIP CHANGES? Ok...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KLIQ POLITICS ~!

Wasn't a fan of any of their matches tbh. Would go *** at most for the best one. And I don't remember which that is.

***1/4 for HBK/Orton and RVD/Orton.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, DX/Legacy SSlam 09 is ***3/4 in my books. The Breaking Point match was that too, let's see if it holds up. Have the HIAC at ***1/2 at the very best, but I won't bother myself watching it again since I found it quite dull at parts.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

ATF said:


> Yup, DX/Legacy SSlam 09 is ***3/4 in my books. The Breaking Point match was that too, let's see if it holds up. Have the HIAC at ***1/2 at the very best, but I won't bother myself watching it again since I found it quite dull at parts.


Was Breaking Point that awesome all over the arena brawl?

Also, lack of Benoit/Edge (might have been the same year as the tragedy in Orlando) on people's top 5 lists is disheartening.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes it is, the insane Submission Falls Count Anywhere match with an insane Montreal crowd. Really liking it so far.

Benoit/Edge, as in Benoit's last great match on SD? Yeah, I enjoyed that too, but not exactly Top 5 material in my books.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Been awhile since I've seen Benoit/Edge, but I remember it making my top 10 Smackdown matches list I did a few years ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> KLIQ POLITICS ~!
> 
> Wasn't a fan of any of their matches tbh. Would go *** at most for the best one. And I don't remember which that is.
> 
> ***1/4 for HBK/Orton and RVD/Orton.


And some say Trips ego never gets in the way of his matches...:hmm:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit's last ever Smackdown match with Edge is great but not top 5 material.

It is his fourth last match. Followed by the draft match with Lashley, the tag match w/ Punk against Elijah Burke/Marcus and then the final match he had with Elijah Burke. Was a good way to end his career in-ring career but he deserved a better opponent before the tragedy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He deserved to still be alive quite frankly. 

(not if the tragedy occurred, but you get my drift.)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well at least Good Ol' Elijah Pope can brag out there that he was Chris Benoit's final opponent ever, which, regardless of the 07 tragedy and whatnot, should be an honor to any wrestler ever.

Breaking Point 09: DX vs. Legacy - ***3/4. DAT INSANITY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's too bad he tarnished his honorable moment by completely being a terrible worker in his matches vs Punk. ECW Botchamania was born out of his magnificent work.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> He deserved to still be alive quite frankly.
> 
> (not if the tragedy occurred, but you get my drift.)


Most definitely. 



ATF said:


> Well at least Good Ol' Elijah Pope can brag out there that he was Chris Benoit's final opponent ever, which, regardless of the 07 tragedy and whatnot, should be an honor to any wrestler ever.


Being the final opponent of a legend in Benoit's level is one of the biggest honors anyone could have in the wrestling business. Specially since most legends retire in "big time" matches against fellow stars. (HBK vs Taker for instance)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Being the final opponent of a legend in Benoit's level is one of the biggest honors anyone could have in the wrestling business. Specially since most legends retire in "big time" matches against fellow stars. (HBK vs Taker for instance)


Can't argue with this. Another examples are ADR being Edge's final opponent ever, and Anderson being Eddie's last too. Quite the honors for those guys.

Thoughts on The Rock vs Goldberg @ BL 03?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock/Goldberg is ★★★½ for me. Far better than I expected it and very entertaining. Rock's selling is awesome and he truly makes that match for me. One of my favorite parts is when the ref is turned around for some reason and Rock punches Goldberg in the balls. Plus Lawler's commentary RULES!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock vs Goldberg sucks. One big stinker.

*


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Choke2Death said:


> Rock/Goldberg is ★★★½ for me.


Seriously man? Shit was horrid.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lmao, I liked that match personally. Something I can rarely say about Goldberg. It was just fun and entertaining.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

So I've decided to try and start posting in this thread.

Rock/Goldberg was an entertaining match. I loved Rock's pre-match promo and his entire selling/vibe of being the cowardly and scared/nervous heel. Goldberg was typical Goldberg in this match, but he mixed well the Rock overall. It could have been shorter but it was pretty damn good overall. Lawler's heel commentary was pretty great too, shame what he is like now. ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldberg has had a few CLASSICS in his day. Nobody can deny how great vs DDP from Halloween Havoc '98 & vs Scott Steiner from Fall Brawl '00 are.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

So I re-watched Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar after seeing the praise in this thread, and I'm happy I did.

*SummerSlam 2012 - Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H*
I remember being let down from this match after watching it live. I remember giving it a *** rating, but I re-watched it just a few minutes ago and damn, that's a great match. The physicality and intensity in the match is great and they had great psychology with Lesnar working on the arm to lead to the kimura and Triple H finding a weakness in Lesnar with his stomach. Both of them sold great too, especially Lesnar with the stomach.

****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rocky/Goldy: **3/4. Fun but not great stuff.

Elimination Chamber rankings?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock/Goldberg- **


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rock/Goldberg is awesome yo.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

ATF said:


> Rocky/Goldy: **3/4. Fun but not great stuff.
> 
> *Elimination Chamber rankings?*


1) SmackDown 2011 ★★★★¾
2) Every other chamber


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Elimination Chamber 05 - ****3/4. Still holds up. Amazing stuff.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Punter said:


> 1) SmackDown 2011 ★★★★¾
> 2) Everything other chamber


That smackdown chamber's awesome. MCINTYRE :mark: :mark: :mark: ****1/4 for me on that match. Love it, just all out chaos.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2005 Chamber is definitely #1 for me. Then it may be the first one. I am yet to see the 08 ones, though.

Also where the hell is KOK?


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

HayleySabin said:


> Goldberg has had a few CLASSICS in his day. Nobody can deny how great vs DDP from Halloween Havoc '98 & vs Scott Steiner from Fall Brawl '00 are.


The one for the US belt vs Raven is also memorable even if it was basically a squash.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I also like his pre-BotB Nitro match with Hogan. Reminds me of Hogan/Rock.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just pulled out the Best of Raw from the 15th Anniversary. Haven't watched in a while and just turned it on, but it's already good. 

:lmao at Heenan trying to get into the building. 

Flair/Perfect :mark:


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Need to see the cage match again. Only saw it once back when it originally aired. It never made a set did it? I don't own Rey's Life of a Masked Man or Eddie's 3 disc set (</3) yet so maybe it's on one of those.[/I]


It's also on the Smackdown 10th anniversary set.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Watching the edge DVD

Anyone remember edge/Foley/lots vs funk/dreamer/beualah? Edges cover on beulah was absolutely priceless.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I remember that. Gave it ****1/2, but thought Cena/RVD from the same night was better.

EDIT~ Chris Benoit vs Shelton Benjamin, Raw March 05 - ***1/2. For a 5 minute match, this was f'n awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Probably a top 5 MOTY for me. GOAT ECW match ever behind Christian/Swagger. And yes, I'm including the original ECW lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

From Best of Raw 15th Anniversary. Shawn/Marty Jannetty after Marty came from the crowd, then won the IC title was pretty cool. Bret Hart/123 Kid is spectular. 

The segment with Jerry Lawler and William Shatner is hilarious. Shatner monkey flipping Lawler was the icing. Whoever thought of turning Jerry Lawler face needs to be put through a wall.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Probably a top 5 MOTY for me. GOAT ECW match ever behind Christian/Swagger. And yes, I'm including the original ECW lol.


Christian/Swagger, as in the Feb 09 match? Good but overrated IMO. Including the original ECW, RVD/Lynn from Living Dangerously 99 and Eddie/Malenko 2 out of 3 Falls beat that. Hell, I even find the Christian/Swagger rematch from Backlash that year superior. It's just not that great, but it's surely pretty good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, that match. 2nd best match in 09 behind Undertaker/HBK. Christian is just IMMENSE as a bayface, sells the arm better than 99.9% of people sell anything these days, and Swagger looked legit too. Shame what they did to him after he got moved from ECW.

I find most pimped stuff from the original ECW to be overrated. Especially the spotfests from RVD and Lynn. My opinion on Eddie/Malenko has gone way down too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sure 2nd MOTY of 09 would be Rey/Jericho @ The Bash. Think something as technically sound as the best Finlay/Benoit match - it's that good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd go ***3/4 for that match. I'm not too high on their matches as other people are . They felt very, very choreographed to me.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Watching the edge DVD
> 
> Anyone remember edge/Foley/lots vs funk/dreamer/beualah? Edges cover on beulah was absolutely priceless.


:lmao :lmao :lmao

Oh my god, thank you for reminding me. That match really is something lol. *********3/4 for omg!wtf?ery

And oh yes, I do remember Rey/Jericho at The Bash being very good. **** iirc? But I liked the Backlash LMS better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well you don't tell me about choreographed when you're a high supporter of the ONS 06 6-person match 

What about Rey/JoMo? Or Jeff/Punk TLC?


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Probably a top 5 MOTY for me. GOAT ECW match ever behind Christian/Swagger. And yes, I'm including the original ECW lol.


You think Christian vs. Jack Swagger is better than RVD vs. Jerry Lynn from Hardcore Heaven '99?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NO! said:


> You think Christian vs. Jack Swagger is better than RVD vs. Jerry Lynn from Hardcore Heaven '99?


Comfortably.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What's your rating on Savage/Steamboat WM 3, Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4. They have a No DQ match before WM that's better though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Agree with that rating. Many people rate it *****, that plain annoys me. ****1/4 is good enough.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> ****1/4. They have a No DQ match before WM that's better though.







Never seen it before, thanks Cal  (think that is the one you mentioned)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bought that Rey set we were talking about earlier. £6.99, and buy 2 get one free so I picked up 2 Live in the UK sets I don't own. HENRY VS PUNK on one of them. Not THE match between them, but the No DQ one or whatever it was which is still awesome. And HBK/JBL Raw Nov 05 is a special feature on one of them too. Was the main event for the first TV taping I went to so I'm happy at least part of that show is on DVD .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 22:*

Big Show & Kane vs Carlito & Chris Masters - ★★
- A standard tag match to open this show. Nothing great and nothing bad, just decent and watchable. It's hard to care when Show and Kane continuously made their opponents look like geeks every week, though. And they do the same here with this easy victory.

RVD vs Shelton Benjamin vs Finlay vs Ric Flair vs Matt Hardy vs Bobby Lashley - ★★★½
- Some people complain that this was too short but I enjoyed this a lot. As usual, there's lots of great spots which is expected when three masters of spots are present (RVD, Hardy and Shelton). There's also a bit of a storyline with Ric Flair being the odd man out who's in his late 50s and looking to recapture the World Title for one final run. He takes a brutal Superplex from the ladder early on and is helped to the back only to come back minutes later. Very fun match and the right man wins with RVD, who had been looking for his breakout into main event status for years after being directionless for so long.

JBL vs Chris Benoit - ★★★
- Such a waste of Benoit in this one. But still, they manage to pull something okay out of this. Just a standard Benoit match that is better for TV standards but not Wrestlemania worthy. I also thought all the constant raping of Eddie's corpse unnecessary. I can understand with Rey since he was the center of the event for months but Benoit had stayed away from any Eddie exploitation for months and for no reason, they have JBL mock Eddie despite the fact, it had nothing to do with whatever story they had going here. JBL reverses a Crossface into a roll-up and uses the ropes to become US Champion. Pretty short and enjoyable but it has its faults.

Edge vs Mick Foley - ★★★★
- A brutal match. Now this is not on par with Foley's classics in the past against the likes of HHH, The Rock or Orton but it is very good in its own right. Lots of brutal parts with Edge falling onto thumbtacks, mandible claw with barbwire and last but not least, the ending as Edge spears Foley through a flaming table. I still don't know how the fire was off as soon as they went through it. One of the greatest Wrestlemania moments ever and this also gave Foley his own moment since his WM record was understating his legacy before this.

The Boogeyman vs Booker T - ½★
- Not zero worthy like I expected it to be but still garbage. I really feel sorry for Booker T. It's like a nightmare for him whenever a "big" PPV comes around. His SummerSlam record doesn't have one single win in it and at WM, he's been screwed over 3 times at least. From jobbing at WM19 when it should've been his moment to being left off 21's card and now this? I guess the payoff was that he would finally get his break into the main event if he agreed to job to the Boogeyman.

Mickie James vs Trish Stratus - ★★★¼
- Quite possibly the best women's match I've seen. From the awesome build-up to the match itself, they deliver completely. The crowd is also hilarious as they boo Trish and cheer Mickie which leads to some special comments from JR and Lawler. Even though it's removed from the DVD version, Mickie James grabbing onto Trish's crotch and doing the V-lick is a classic. I bring the rating down by ¼ because of the botched finish. Trish failed to lift Mickie for the Stratusfaction stealing and instead, Mickie had to improvise and deliver a rushed Chick Kick.

Undertaker vs Mark Henry - ★★¼
- Once again, a waste of another top talent on the roster. Undertaker could've gotten a better opponent but instead got stuck with Mark Henry. Match is slow and kinda boring but Taker does his very best to make it work as he delivers an awesome over-the-top-rope dive and gives Henry a perfect Tombstone. It's kinda surprising because he was barely able to execute the Last Ride and almost landed Henry on his head had he dropped him one second later. The streak continues but is overshadowed by other stuff in this event.

Shawn Michaels vs Vince McMahon - ★★★
- I think I've already shown my disdain for the build-up to this. Absolutely horrendous but at least the payoff is worth watching as Shawn absolutely destroys Vince for almost the entire match-up. Spirit Squad and Shane interfere but they all fail at bringing Shawn down. Once Shane is handcuffed to the ropes, it's all Shawn's to beat the shit out of Vince with chair-shots, ladder shots and everything. The finish is awesome as Shawn brings out an extremely tall ladder and elbows Vince through a table all while Vince's torso is covered by a trashcan. Then the Sweet Chin Music to end it all. Even though I would be lying if I said I didn't like the beatdown, I think this one went on for FAR too long. Almost twenty minutes and so much time was wasted while setting up the spots. I just feel they could've utilized some of that time better as you will see now below.

Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle - ★★★
- The build-up was kind of shit. Orton did awesome in it while Kurt was a generic "respect" babyface and Rey played the sympathetic card by constantly milking Eddie's name. That said, this match should've worked a lot better. Too bad it failed, mainly because of time restrictions. For the second year in a row, Smackdown's main event was screwed over because too much time was spent on bullshit and therefore, this only goes for 9 minutes but during that time, it's a fun match. Non-stop action for the whole match and Orton gave Mysterio one hell of a German Suplex during that double spot in the beginning. I think the booking focused too much on making Angle dominant, though. He makes both opponents tap out behind ref's back and in the end, Rey looks weak despite his victory. Crowd once again play the assholes as they boo him in favor of Kurt Angle.

Torrie Wilson vs Candice Michelle - 0
- Now this is zero worthy material. A complete waste of time and instead of this, they could've given the 7 or so minutes it took to the World Title match to make it into a classic. But nah, this stupid "pillowfight" had to get in there even though there's not a single use of pillows throughout the match.

John Cena vs Triple H - ★★★★
- Definitely better than I remembered and expected it being as I went in. Crowd truly makes this match as they are never quiet for even one second. This truly has that big time atmosphere as Cena's tiny fanbase here gets outdone by the anti-Cena fans who are large in numbers and dominate the place with brutal "Fuck you Cena" chants. Starts off slowly then HHH starts controlling most of the match early on. Ref bump happens and HHH brings out the sledgehammer but Cena kicks out. Then Cena takes over and hits the FU which HHH kicks out of. I like the desperation on his face at this point as he heads for the top rope and tries a Crossbody but misses completely. Fans were in for a surprise here as Cena gets the STFU locked in and makes HHH tap out. Nobody saw it coming and as such, the fans are stunned in silence when HHH taps. Very good match and one hell of a main event. It also looks like the crowd really got to Cena as he is about to cry after the match is over. In the post-game interview, some of that anger is visible on his face as he has some confrontational words to his haters and gives that killer look to the camera.

*Overall:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (WM22 could have been so much better but it was cursed. A classic match-up in the plans between Eddie and Shawn was scrapped because of the former's untimely passing, the World Title were completely changed too and Stone Cold/Hogan was planned but it never happened due to politics. From what we got, they could have done some far better match-ups. Instead of wasting Benoit and Undertaker in two irrelevant matches, they could've had them go one-on-one and put on MOTN. Otherwise, despite the screwy card, most matches managed to bring this up to decent. Main event was good, Hardcore match was good and the midcard of the event also offered some memorable matches. Still - it should have been so much more but what's done is done!)


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Mickie James vs Trish Stratus - ★★★¼
> - Quite possibly the best women's match I've seen. From the awesome build-up to the match itself, they deliver completely. The crowd is also hilarious as they boo Trish and cheer Mickie which leads to some special comments from JR and Lawler. Even though it's removed from the DVD version, Mickie James grabbing onto Trish's crotch and doing the V-lick is a classic. I bring the rating down by ¼ because of the botched finish. Trish failed to lift Mickie for the Stratusfaction stealing and instead, Mickie had to improvise and deliver a rushed Chick Kick


I just rewatched this match now, agreed that it's the best women's match ever. Loved the leg work from Mickie the entire match, and that Stratusphere counter was fucking great. I marked out for that because I completely forgot about it. And lol at Lawlers comments about the crowd, like how they have to go report to their parole officers :lmao. What a shame at the botch at the end, I think I'll still give it a *** 1/2 though. One of the few Diva's matches that I would watch more than once.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Monday Night Raw, Jan 17th 2011
John Cena vs. CM Punk*

Loved the stare down at the start of this. Intensity heading into a match, I’m always a fan of that. The usual Punk/Cena chemistry here although to a much lesser degree. Later in the year their dynamic would be fully realized but for now this served as a nice teaser of what was to come. Post match MASON RYAN becomes a member of the New Nexus. Funny how Punk started the year compared to how he ended it. 

****1/2*

*Wrestlemania 27
Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes*

Rey’s Mania costumes are always fun and this was no different. CAPTAIN MYSTERIO vs. NO KNEE PADS RHODES. I really enjoyed this despite not remembering that much about it. Rhodes is great and that delayed suplex from the second rope made me mark out a bit tbh. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that in a match before. The knee brace along with Cody’s mask are focus points at certain times throughout, paying homage to the feud between the two of them which I liked. The brace finally comes off with the mask coming next. I really like how they incorporated both things into the match. Cody picks up the win with a knee brace shot to the face followed by the Cross Rhodes. Big win for him and an underrated gem imo.

****3/4*

*Elimination Chamber
World Heavyweight Champsionship
Edge(c) vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Big Show*

Haven’t watched this since it happened most likely. Edge and Mysterio to start. They take things to the outside early with Rey taking a big back body drop on the steel. Nasty action with Edge beating on Mysterio, throwing him into the chains and into the glass. Barrett out at number 3. Great spot where Edge basically hurls Mysterio into Barrett before throwing him to the outside. So far, Rey is taking all the bumps but eventually Barrett is next to hit the steel. The 3 of them are mixing very well, nice mix of action on the outside and inside of the ring. Kane out next and he does the rounds, beating on everybody as the fresh man. Drew is taking a fit inside his pod and he’s the next man out. First move is to launch Rey into the glass like a dart. DREW MAC. He and Barrett form an alliance for all of a minute before DREW MAC launches him into the glass. Guy is pumped and making an impact. Great stuff. Pace starts to pick up and bodies are falling everywhere. Kane launches Rey into the glass again, this time head first. Awesome spot. Show out last and kills all round him. No eliminations yet with all 6 guys in the ring. Show, with one arm, sends Barrett into the glass again too. Then proceeds to slap the shit out of his chest on the outside. KO punch, Barrett is eliminated. Mysterio has climbed to the top of the pod. Big spot incoming. Show takes a clothesline from Kane, elbow drop from Edge, DDT from Drew and finally a HUGE Seated Senton from Mysterio but still lives on. Everybody ganging up on Show now. Big Boot, 619, Spear, Chokeslam. 1, 2, 3. Show is gone. Chokeslam to McIntryre. Kane eliminates Drew. 3 men left now, Kane, Edge and Mysterio. There’s a great moment where Kane has Mysterio hanging upside down over his shoulders and Edge hits a spear on both of them, eliminating Kane leaving the 2 men who started the match to end it. Before he leaves, Kane nails both guys with Chokeslams. The pace takes an obvious hit as both of them try to recover and get to their feet. Lots of close near falls in the finishing stretch with Edge eventually picking up the win with an awesome spear. Fantastic match where most everybody came out of it looking better than they did going in. The Chamber itself was used a ton to put over the brutality of this type of match and was mixed in with some fast paced ring action. I was settling on 4 ¼ for this until that ending with Mysterio and Edge. Total finisher fest but I loved it and it earns a ¼ star by itself.

*****1/2 (And 2011 MOTY from what I’ve watched so far.) *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One day I'll have to go through the EC matches that took place on the actual EC PPV. I only remember the ones from 08... and that's about it :lmao. I remember BITS of the others but not enough to form any kind of opinion on them. For example the WHC 2011 match, I pretty much just remember MCINTYRE being a bad mofo in it. I remember the ones that happened before they gave the match its own PPV just fine.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

I feel like Drew's irrelevance post-EC is the evidence Pyro keeps looking for with Barrett regarding Vince not pushing deserving Brits.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't see what other Brit wrestler's failed pushes have to do with Barrett's failed push. Barrett fucking sucks and simply doesn't DESERVE a push.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ether said:


> I just rewatched this match now, agreed that it's the best women's match ever. Loved the leg work from Mickie the entire match, and that Stratusphere counter was fucking great. I marked out for that because I completely forgot about it. And lol at Lawlers comments about the crowd, like how they have to go report to their parole officers :lmao. What a shame at the botch at the end, I think I'll still give it a *** 1/2 though. One of the few Diva's matches that I would watch more than once.


Yeah, it's a great match and would have been even better if the finish was done properly.



Big Z said:


> I don't see what other Brit wrestler's failed pushes have to do with Barrett's failed push. Barrett fucking sucks and simply doesn't DESERVE a push.


You and Pyro debating this would be gold. :lmao

I find it funny how he hates on Orton and says he has no charisma "because he talks like a robot" but gives Barrett a pass even though he sounds exactly the same when speaking. Ever since I've started prioritizing ring work, I've been pretty much fine with Barrett getting buried since he's so dull in the ring. Only thing he has is some mic skills.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

So I'm feeling an urge to watch some old school 'rasslin and I'm not sure what DVDVR set to get. Any suggestions?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus said:


> So I'm feeling an urge to watch some old school 'rasslin and I'm not sure what DVDVR set to get. Any suggestions?


MEMPHIS OR MID-SOUTH.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Barrett's MIZ SKILLZ aren't even that great to deserve all this praise and his ring work blows chunks. He needs more time.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

To be fair, anyone being forced to work the phrase "Barrett barrage" into all his promos is going to have a rough time of it. But yeah, Barrett's been worthless since Nexus went down the tubes at Summerslam.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I thought they were going to do something decent with him upon his recent return instead they had him beat Yoshi Tatsu. If that's not the key ingredient to momentum then I don't know what is.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Barrett's shite in near enough every area. I can't recall any Barrett performance were I thought 'you know what, that was pretty good,' Fucker can barely even be carried to anything decent. 

But saying that, I still kinda want him to win a world title so we can finally say we've had a English-born champion. It's amazing that that's not happened yet.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Cactus said:


> Barrett's shite in near enough every area. I can't recall any Barrett performance were I thought 'you know what, that was pretty good,' Fucker can barely even be carried to anything decent.
> 
> But saying that, I still kinda want him to win a world title so we can finally say we've had a English-born champion. It's amazing that that's not happened yet.


I'd rather they just wait to sign Magnus.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Barrett sucks, but his PPV match with Cena was very good, tbh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

All dat Barrett hate 

One of the best mic workers WWE has right now and an excellent on at that, but stuck with bland material, a bland character, and hell, he rarely gets the mic to begin with, and when he does, it's for only a couple of minutes. Of course when he did get the mic consistently and had more than two minutes on it every few weeks, he became the most over heel in the company and was cutting great promos on a weekly basis, so meh. 

His in-ring work isn't as bad as some make it out to be either, though it is lacking, I've always said his execution and power move-set is fine, but his pacing of matches is terrible and what he really needs to work on. But not bad in the ring, just decent.

Oh well, hardly matters anyway. He's never getting a consistent push and that much is obvious. At this point it seems he'll be lucky to even get a World Title match again period, let alone the belt itself.

As an overall talent, I'd put him above anyone in WWE right now except Punk, Sandow, Rhodes, Orton, Christian, Jericho and maybe Sheamus. Problem is everyone either only has in-ring work to go for them that I wouldn't put up there with Barrett on the mic (Cesaro, McIntyre, Swagger, etc.) or just sucks at both in-ring work and on the mic. Can't thing of anyone besides Barrett who's a pure-mic guy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus said:


> So I'm feeling an urge to watch some old school 'rasslin and I'm not sure what DVDVR set to get. Any suggestions?


Me favourite would be Memphis. You get some of the greatest interviews and angles and promos and segments and feuds and all that other shit to go along with the matches. You get them with most of the other US sets, but fuck I'll say it - they just aren't as good as Memphis.


Barrett is POO.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Barrett is f'n awesome. He's the perfect heel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NO! said:


> You think Christian vs. Jack Swagger is better than RVD vs. Jerry Lynn from Hardcore Heaven '99?


I second Cal on this opinion. I do dig the RVD/Lynn bouts myself. Christian vs Swagger is IMMENSE.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Barrett is f'n awesome. He's the perfect heel.


(Y)

Oh, and <3 for Starbuck pimping Rhodes/Mysterio from WM 27 & dare I say the GOAT Elimination Chamber match ever - from 2011 for the World Championship.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Ahhh yes that chamber :mark: Top 5 match of 2011 for sure, it's get* **** 1/2 *for me and tied with 2005 chamber as the best ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. Torn between EC 2011 & NYR '05 as to which I think is the best Chamber match so far. That part in '05 where Trips is in the sharpshooter and crossface while Batista gets stuck in his pod is :mark:


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched the May 11, 1998 episode of Raw. It centres around McMahon being revealed as the Special Guest referee for the Austin/Dude Love match at Over the Edge. There also happens to be an image posted today in the funny pictures thread of Vince, Brisco and Patterson covering their eyes, ears and mouths taken from this episode. This episode also features Sable powerbombing Marc Mero, as well as the return of Al Snow, which is also quite a coincidence because my friend and I happened to be discussing him earlier today. We didn't know when he returned to the WWF. And now I know.

Anyway, it's a really great show. Probably the best episode of Raw I've seen since I started watching these old episodes (I've watched almost 2 years worth of Raw now). Every segment is entertaining (even the parts with Jeff Jarrett!), it flows well and it's a pretty fast paced show. There are a couple of decent matches there too. A really fun and just excellent overall episode of Raw.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Barrett blows. An utterly horrid wrestler gifted with Mr.Roboto voice and world's most disjointed moveset. His body frame also looks like someone threw poncho over a coat hanger.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Barrett is f'n awesome. He's the perfect heel.


Finally some sanity ITT in regards to Barrett. 

Wade is one of the better promos on the roster when he actually has good material to work with and that is evident by some of his promos during his run in Nexus. His ring work is fine as well and isn't AWFUL like most people in here like to say it is. He's shown that he's capable of being in good matches when matched up against the right opponent (John Cena, for instance). 

Wade would be a great top heel if they would stop screwing around with him and finally give him a real push. He's already shown that he was capable of it before but then they shipped him off to Smackdown and put him in the geeky CORRE (or however they spelled it) and all of his momentum he had from his Nexus run was dead.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys which match do you think it was better, Punk/Cena from SS 2011 or Punk/Cena from NOC 2012?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

NYR '05
Raw '09
Raw '08
SD '11

Those are my favorites. Raw '08 is mainly because UMAGA owned. But I really enjoyed the Hardy/Trips showdown that foreshadowed their feud later that year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Guys which match do you think it was better, Punk/Cena from SS 2011 or Punk/Cena from NOC 2012?


Right now I'd go with the SS match, but I could do with watching them back to back. NOC match is something that I couldn't talk about much because I don't remember it that well, BUT I do remember loving the story it had, so it could very well do better than SS for me on a re-watch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

NYR 05 Chamber = 

I was live for the 08 ones, and the Raw one was pretty awesome. Wasn't the SD one pretty good too? Taker reversed some move over the ropes for a Tombstone on Batista? UMAGA was GOAT in the Raw match. DOUBLE SAMOAN DROP.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Punk/cena SS 2011 >> Punk Cena NOC 2012 at this very moment but now i have to watch them again to be sure. Thank you very much !

Elimination Chamber... NYR 05. No questions for me. Watched it many times. HHH performance is amazing in it. An dDat pedigree on Jericho... just perfect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD one was really good too, yeah. Undertaker & Batista started it out to continue their rivalry from 07, then ended it too with that awesome counter. Khali is in it which brings it down but I don't remember him being there for long. BDV was better in it that some people will probably say, but they are just biased against big fat fucks . Oh yeah, FINLAY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shame we never got Taker/Umaga, that could've been amazing. But we did have this:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Shame we never got Taker/Umaga, that could've been amazing. But we did have this:


Way to only post the last 2 minutes of the match . Match is great though, ***1/2 for it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Way to only post the last 2 minutes of the match . Match is great though, ***1/2 for it.












EDIT~Thoughts on No Mercy 2003?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I need to rewatch Cena/Angle but I can remember liking it a fair bit. Taker/Bork is *** 3/4, IMO. Not a fan of the Biker Chain stip but they made it work.

Edit - Tajiri/Rey rocks, tbh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rey/Tajiri is good, not as good as their SD match though. Benoit/A-Train is good, but holy FUCK at Benoit getting dropped head first into the chair. Angle/Cena is GREAT. Taker/Lesnar is good, better than I remembered. Not as good as their 02 matches though.

Wrote a bit about some of the matches a while back:



Spoiler: NM 03 stuff



Rey Mysterio Vs Tajiri - No Mercy 10/19/2003

Love their SD match, but will have to watch it again just because I don't remember as much about it as I would like. This is good too. They mention this is their 3rd match together in a series or whatever, so I wonder what the other match is. Anyways, Tajiri works the arm with reversals of Rey's stuff that end up hurting it, then using his kicks to fuck it up even more. Rey sells it well, and can still hit a lot of his offence because his legs are fine, but is still playing it safe some of the time and still sells the arm depending on how he lands. West Coast Pop into a powerbomb was awesome btw. Mysterio balancing on the ropes after being thrown by Tajiri, and hitting a moonsault was fucking perfect. Didn't put his hands down to help with his balance or anything. No slips. Nowt. Can imagine someone like Jeff Hardy or RVD trying the exact same thing and just fucking it up lol . Finish sees the debut of Tajiri's yakuza followers or whatever and they help him out. No vote for it, definitely remember the SD match being better, just not sure how much . Still worth a watch.

Continuing with No Mercy 03, Benoit Vs A-Train is a really enjoyable match. Benoit is just gritty and nasty as usual, and A-Train is great at beating the fuck out of him. Great story of A-Train being able to counter the Crossface and German Suplexes of Benoit, and he even hits a German of his own. Holy FUCK, and I really mean HOLY FUCK at the spot where A-Train goes for a body press drop on Benoit onto a chair, but slips on the chair and drops Benoit HEAD FIRST into the chair. Don't think I've seen a referee move as fast as the one in this match did to check on him. Finish was great with the chair coming back to haunt A-Train, and Benoit using the Sharpshooter for the win since A-Train kept escaping the Crossface. Another match everyone here would like, but its not something I can see anyone nominating.

Just watched Angle/Cena from No Mercy 03. Great fucking match. Might even throw a nomination at it. Cena looked... probably the best he's ever looked while actually controlling a match. Sure, its not that often he's been able to do it pretty much since he face turn just a few weeks after this match (pretty strong Cena chants during this match btw), but still. He's still shit at working rest holds lol, but luckily I think he only actually does one here. He gets a ton more offence in on Angle than he did against Undertaker at Vengeance, and I think that's why I like this match more. He really shows what he's capable of, which is kind of a shame because he hasn't looked like that in fuck knows how long. Yeah, he pulls out some great performances in big matches most of the time, but again, those are different because he's not controlling the match. Does some nice mid section work on Angle first, which makes sense to set up to the F-U, then when Angle tries to German Suplex him from the arpon to the announcers table, the quickest reversal Cena could do was a DDT onto the apron (which looked sick), and that opened up the opportunity to work over Angle's neck which is always a smart thing to do because its fucked lol. Awesome powerbomb into the turnbuckle. Angle took that one like a champ. And Angle was fucking good in this too. No "Angle-isms" or whatever. He did do his "jump to the ropes for a suplex" spot, but not after a finisher, and he wasn't able to hit it anyway so it didn't bother me in the slightest. They each kicked out of the other's finisher, but not in an annoying kinda way or anything, just your typical WWE Main Event style match. The way Angle goes into the Ankle Lock for the finish is pretty cool, and Cena looked strong as fuck in defeat. Probably around ****1/4 for it, good chance of making my bottom 20. Would have probably been top 50 on my WWF/E List too, not sure if I actually even watched it back then. If I did I obviously didn't think as highly of it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tajiri/Rey NM 03 - ***3/4. Great stuff.

Off-topic: just for fun - if you considered a Rock, Bryan & Kane Triple Threat, with all men in their prime, what do you believe would the rating for that match?


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Too many clashing wrestling styles and mismatched body frames imo, wouldn't expect anything amazing, even with 2006 Bryan, early 90's Glen Jacobs and whenever the fuck Dwayne was the least insufferable in the ring.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

EC 2011 was that damn good? I can't recall it at all tbh. I;m starting to wonder if I even watched the event.

As for the NYR 05 chamber, GOAT! Gets ****3/4 from me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think ill watch, with all the talk in here, the NWO '08 Chamber matches in abit, never seen them.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just finished the Clash of the Champions BD, quite a fun set. A few quick ratings:

Ric Flair vs Sting, COTC 1988 - *****1/4*
Ric Flair vs Terry Funk, COTC 1989 - *****1/4*
Ric Flair vs Lex Luger, COTC 1990 - ****3/4*
Sting vs 'Ravishing' Rick Rude, COTC 1991 - ****3/4*
Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs Hollywood Blonds, COTC 1993 - ****1/2*
Ric Flair vs Sting, COTC 1994 - ******
Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat, COTC 1994 - *****1/4*

On a side not, I don't think I've heard many moments quite as electric as when The Rock inducted his family into the Hall of Fame in 2008. If that was during a live WWE show it would be impressive, but for a Hall of Fame ceremony its just crazy. Goosebumps for the whole thing. Even then, I never thought Rocky would be back. Oh how times have changed :rock4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Wrestlemania 27
Randy Orton vs. CM Punk*

The storyline to this made me chuckle. Punk goes after Orton’s wife. Mania 25, Orton goes after Triple H’s wife. Nice symmetry. Orton’s knee is injured heading in and he sells it really well throughout. Similarly, Punk works it just as well. Great spot where Orton’s hung up on the turnbuckle and Punk just jumps right onto him. Orton goes for the RKO and meets a big kick to the face in response. Close near fall. Punk goes back to working the leg and locks in a figure four around the ring post. Figure four, I think, locked in back in the ring with Punk kicking and punching the leg. Both of them come face to face in a pretty cool stare down until Orton works his way out. RKO gets a brief spell of momentum but it’s stopped by the Anaconda Vice. Punk starting to get frustrated that Orton won’t go down. Momentum sways back to Orton who has now decided to stop selling the knee which sucks. He lays in wait for the RKO. Nope, he changes his mind and goes for the punt instead but his knee can’t take it and he falls. Punk gets cocky and saunters over to him but Orton goes for the RKO OUTTA NOWHERE and in an awesome moment, Punk manages to push him away and recoil back to the ropes in shock. His reaction is fucking great though and definitely worth checking out. Thinking he’s safe, Punk goes to the top again and this time leaps right into an RKO. Orton wins. I liked this. The leg work from Punk was great and the selling from Orton was great for the most part too. Crowd were super dead which hurt it a little though.

****1/2*


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just wathed Breaking Point 2009 again:

Big Show/Chris Jericho vs. Mark Henry/MVP- **
Kofi Kingston vs Miz- US Championship- ***3/4
DX vs Legacy- ***
Khali vs Kane- Singapore cane Match- *
Christian vs Regal- ECW Championship- **
John Cena vs Randy Orton- WWE Championship- *** 1/2
Undertaker vs CM Punk- World Heavyweight Champiosnhip- ** 1/2

Final thoughts: Many matches could be easily pulled every week on a regularly SD show. The US Championship Match was the best of the ngiht, and even that wasn't that great. I was really dissapointed in Christian vs Regal


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No Mercy 03 is an awesome show. Vince/Stephanie was surprisingly entertaining, Tajiri/Rey is great, Angle/Cena rules, Taker/BORK is decent, Eddie/Big Show was okay and Benoit/A-Train is good too. There's probably something I forgot but with all of this, that should make a damn great PPV!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Just wathed Breaking Point 2009 again:
> 
> Kofi Kingston vs Miz- US Championship- ***3/4


Fucking hell, tells you something when this is the best match of the night lol :lol, esp with the Taker on the card...


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Can somebody tell me why the fuck they had Cena come out at the HOF ceremony in 2008 before Ric Flair's induction just to give the inductees a little pep talk? It was such a blatant example of "we need to get our top guy on camera doing an inspirational speech", probably in the hopes of getting him more cheers the next night at Wrestlemania.

One of the most pointless things I've ever seen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DAT CENA HATE.

Top 5 KOTR PPV matches?


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

ATF said:


> DAT CENA HATE.
> 
> Top 5 KOTR PPV matches?


Hart/Perfect for sure at number 1.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Favorite KOTR match is definitely HHH vs Undertaker from 2002. :HHH2

Speaking of the HOF, it just donned on me the other day when watching the 2006 one that Bret Hart's induction will never be shown again in any shape or form except photoshopped images by WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Top 5 KOTR PPV matches?


HBK/Bulldog is up there for sure, as well of course as Bret/Perfect, Angle/Shane, Taker/Mankind, Bret/Diesel, Austin/HBK


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just randomly stumbled across a PPV that I haven't seen, but just by looking at the match card, looks pretty damn good. Thoughts on Unforgiven 04 plz?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Just randomly stumbled across a PPV that I haven't seen, but just by looking at the match card, looks pretty damn good. Thoughts on Unforgiven 04 plz?


Orton vs HHH is pretty good, Benoit/Regal vs Flair/Batista is decent and I think the ladder match with Jericho & Christian was good too. You can skip the rest of the show, though. Probably the weakest Raw exclusive PPV this side of Taboo Tuesday from 04.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton vs HHH is pretty good, Benoit/Regal vs Flair/Batista is decent and I think the ladder match with Jericho & Christian was good too. You can skip the rest of the show, though. Probably the weakest Raw exclusive PPV this side of Taboo Tuesday from 04.


Kane/HBK no good?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Kane/HBK no good?


:ambrose2


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton vs HHH is pretty good, Benoit/Regal vs Flair/Batista is decent *I think the ladder match with Jericho & Christian was good too*. You can skip the rest of the show, though. Probably the weakest Raw exclusive PPV this side of Taboo Tuesday from 04.


It's pretty good. As a big fan of both guys and their feud at the time, I probably rate the match higher than others. That ladder match was also the ending point of their long feud which started with love triangle storyline with Trish, then Christian got injured in the cage match that they had on a RAW episode, then a few months later Christian returned and the feud resumed over the IC Title.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Top 5 KotR:

1. Taker vs Mankind HIAC
2. Hart vs Perfect
3. HBK vs Bulldog
4. HBK vs Austin
5. Angle vs Shane


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Undertaker(C) vs. Batista - Backlash 2007 (LMS) ****1/4,Great match.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Jericho vs Benoit Ladder match RR 2001 : Awesome 20 min match. Amazing spots and non stop action. Brilliant. One of my favorite ladder match.****1/2

HBK vs Ramon Ladder match summerslam 1995: Very interesting debut with a good leg work from Razor and an excellent selling from hbk. A good Hbk'comeback with a nice moonsault and a top of the ladder splash ( missed). But at some point the match becomes absolutely unwatchable: a very very slow pace and one of the worst finish ever ( Hbk fails to get the title 2 times in a row, clearly 2 botches). *** because the first half is fantastic.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So with Bruno Sammartino going into the HOF, I'm wondering if there's anybody here familiar with his work or if he pre-dates the majority of us? I personally don't know much. I know who he is, I know all about the bad blood between he and Vince, I've been reading for years that this was never going to happen etc and know general bits and pieces. As far as matches go, I think it's fair to say I don't really know anything. So, does anybody have some scoop on Sammartino?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

the frenchise said:


> Jericho vs Benoit Ladder match RR 2001 : Awesome 20 min match. Amazing spots and non stop action. Brilliant. One of my favorite ladder match.****1/2
> 
> HBK vs Ramon Ladder match summerslam 1995: Very interesting debut with a good leg work from Razor and an excellent selling from hbk. A good Hbk'comeback with a nice moonsault and a top of the ladder splash ( missed). But at some point the match becomes absolutely unwatchable: a very very slow pace and one of the worst finish ever ( Hbk fails to get the title 2 times in a row, clearly 2 botches). *** because the first half is fantastic.


Benoit/Jericho is my favourite singles ladder. *****. You've reminded me it's been too long since I watched the Wrestlemania X match, but I remember liking it.

Starbuck, I'm with you on Bruno's matches. All I know is they were in MSG, in black and white, and very very long.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Bruno's nothing special in the ring.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Any good tv matches so far this year?

Can't really remember anything apart from a great Cena/Ziggler match on the opening Raw.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ziggler/Del Rio from last week's SD was pretty good.

Also, Punk/Ryback TLC from Raw and Sheamus/Ziggler from Main Event.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched BROCK/Zach Gowen because of that squashes thread. Brock's performance is GOAT-worthy. Taunting Zach's mom and delivering a brutal chair shot + F5 into ring post right in front of her is top notch. Him threatening the refs with the chair only to watch them turn and sprint the other way is priceless :lmao

Rivals HHH's Summerslam 04 performance.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH's performance at SS04 would be hard to beat, but Lesnar would've been GOAT-Heel worthy if his run was longer and filled with segments like the Zach Gowen one where he threw him down the steps.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I wish someone had a HQ link to HHH/Eugene. I'm dying to wach that again. Don't want to fumble through all of my VHS tapes to find it (wouldn't mind watching Benoit/Orton once I do, though).


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

[youtube]D5myYM[/youtube]
:mark: Great match considering it was TV match. I'm gonna see their Bragging Rights match after RAW's over, probably.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Just randomly stumbled across a PPV that I haven't seen, but just by looking at the match card, looks pretty damn good. Thoughts on Unforgiven 04 plz?


Watch Benoit/Regal vs Flair/Batista & Jericho vs Christian Ladder and that's it.

Women's wasn't half bad, tbhayley.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My ban is finally over !

YEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! Looking forward to Punk vs Orton/Rey/Jericho tonight. All three could be money if given time... Who knows, maybe Orton can become RELEVANT again now.

unk2


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Watched Vengeance 2005

Carltio vs. Shelton Benjamin - **1/2
Christy Hemme vs. Victoria - **
Edge vs. Kane - **1/2 (excellent finishing sequence)
Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle - ****1/2 (Match of the Night)
John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Christian - ****
Hell in a Cell: Batista vs. Triple H - ****1/2

Overall - 9/10


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

MARK FUCKING HENRY IS BACK!

Best monster heel in the business


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MIZARK MOTHERFUCKING RATINGS HENRY IS BACK WHERE HE LEFT OFF.

Seriously, this guy looks like he hasn't lost a single damn step since his epic 2011-2012 monster heel campaign, and if he didn't already have my full support, he crushed that POS Sin Cara. Del Rio v Henry or Cena vs Henry both sound like completely awesome feuds. Still can't believe how effective he's put over his character despite all of the nonsense he's been involved in throughout his career.

@ NO! ....... Vengeance 2005 is perhaps my favorite show ever due to the main event perhaps being my all time favorite match and a top 30 WWE/WWF match ever from where I sit for sure. Haven't seen Angle-Michaels in ages and I have a real big fear that it won't hold up at the four and a quarter I gave it in previous years. 

WE GOT TO SEE BRYAN DANIELSON VS REY MYSTERIO JR. TONIGHT.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Why were you banned, KoK?

Punk vs. Jericho should be great fun. A part of me was hoping he'd face Orton, only because the rage from the Orton marks would be hilarious once Punk pinned him clean. They're already butthurt enough that he has surpassed Orton, I can only imagine what they would go through if that happened tonight.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

NO! said:


> Watched Vengeance 2005
> 
> Carltio vs. Shelton Benjamin - **1/2
> Christy Hemme vs. Victoria - **
> ...


Agreed. That match rocks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk lost and I said some things that I guess aren't tolerated.

Well... In reality I got banned for spamming practically every forum after the Rumble telling everybody how awesome Rock vs Cena II will be, and how the IWC are a bunch of sheep for wanting a ratings killer like Punk to go over the GOAT Rock or the current face of wrestling John Cena. Basically used a ton of sarcasm in saying that Rock-Lesnar or Rock-Punk-Cena wouldn't draw nearly as much as Rematch-Mania :lol

Either they thought I was being legit and they banned me for being stupid (which if anybody actually meant that, should be banned) , or they knew I was trolling and didn't want that shit on their site at the particular time where people are more sensitive to booking. I guess they were kinda right for doing what they did, although I feel I wasn't NEARLY as bad as some of the other people on here.

Yeah I'm hoping Punk-Jericho doesn't disappoint. I was hoping for Punk-Orton as well for Punk to get DAT WIN BACK and make Choke2Death rage ( :lol ) , but I'm interested to see how heel Punk vs face Jericho can work. I'm still pumped over seeing Mark Henry for Mania season looking like a main event player on Smackdown though, nothing can take that excitemnt away from me barring an unfortunate Henry injury. Guarandamntee that if he doesn't get hurt, he's back on top of the E' with his great character work and hopefully giving Cena something to do post Mania.

SO WAIT ..... Jiz gets squashed by BROCK and Shit-Cara gets squashed by MARK ? ..... This could potentially be the greatest episode of Monday Night Raw I've ever seen :brock

OH SHIT WE'RE GETTING BARRETT-ORTON NVM.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Jericho/Punk Raw 2/4/13 *** 1/4-1/2

FUN, even managed to get one of the worst crowds in recent memory to chant "this is awesome".


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

*WWE RAW 2/4/13*
_CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ***1/2

Just really good stuff from top to bottom. The roles were switched, and they both played their's great. A surprise to nobody.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

*CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Raw 2/4/13)* - ***3/4

TV match of the year for me so far, and very close to my highest rates match of the year so far (which is ****). Just a tremendous match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Raw had Punk/Jericho, Bryan/Mysterio, BROCK, and Mark 'somebody gon get their wig split' Henry. I was a fan.

I missed some of Punk/Jericho so I'll have to re-watch it but it was good for sure.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So yeah, I figured I should update you guys on just what the hell I've been up to during my ban from this place ;

First of all, being banned from this place absolutely SUCKED, especially since I was banned during such a busy time of year for wrestling fans when things begin to heat up. Word of advice that I learned ; DO NOT FUCKING TROLL, you will be banned and it will break your heart :vince

What have I been watching ? WHY, I'VE BEEN WATCHING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING WRESTLEMANIA FROM ONE TO TWENTY FUCKING EIGHT ! ..... I'm only currently at 13, but to be completely honest these shows were absolutely HORRENDOUS for the first third. Not gonna throw out all my RATINGZ! until I'm done, but I have an open proposition for anybody who seriously wants to take me up on this ...

When I'm done all 28 Wrestlemanias , I'm doing my own personal list of the top 50 matches in Wrestlemania history, and I was wondering does anybody else wanna partake in such a project so that we can do a thread wide poll sort of deal ? We've got over 60 days to watch 28 shows, which is a hell of alot less than some of you guys had to watch for your respective WCW and WWF/WWE lists.

Just throwing it out there, and if not I'll just fly solo on this one. Hope to get some positive feedback.

OHYEAHZZZ ! Punk vs Jericho (RAW 5/02/13) : **** 3/4* ....... Still not as good as Punk-Ryback but DAMN GOOD. Punk looking great so far this year, still not a four star candidate out there.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho from last night on RAW - Rating: 4 stars out of 5 stars.
-
Damn good match.

ALSO!! I just saw Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan (Bragging Rights 2010) and it was definitely a 5-star match for me! The back and forth action, that top rope spot they did where Ziggler countered in mid-air, the back and forth pins they did at one point, DAT SELLING from Ziggler, everything about this match was awesome! :mark: I loved it so much and it's definitely one of those matches that I'll watch over & over again for the rest of my life, just like Angle/HBk from WM 21. It was fucking awesome, I recommend it to anybody that's a fan of back & forth action and all that good shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho tonight guys. What fun that was. Their magical chemistry hasn't skipped a beat since last year. _(or ever)_ I'll credit RAW tonight for giving out some fresher match ups. Only redundant bouts were Ryback vs Cesaro & Orton vs Barrett _(ok, fuck off with that last one. Seriously)_ It's too bad a match in Del Rio vs Rhodes was short, I'll love to see those two duke it out with time. It's fresh and I'm certain can really be something worth seeing. Sheamus vs Kane need that 10 minute match to happen. Those two having a slugfest excites me just thinking about it. Danielson vs Mysterio was another fun bout. Not on the levels of their original, but plenty good. Appreciated the arm work by Bryan and the attempt to use it in the end to finish off Rey. I LOVED how he got the win clean. 

MARK HENRY IS BACK. Yeah, I went insane while I watched. :mark:

Oh, STARZ - ***1/2 for Punker vs Jericho & **1/4 for Danielson vs Mysterio. So, at least we got two matches worth seeing, a much needed return, and a BROCK sighting. Brad Maddox & Punker promos deserve shouts.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

***3/4 for Punk/Jericho . Refreshing to see the roles reversed.

You really get the feeling WWE wants to have a great line up from top to bottom for the HOF.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> When I'm done all 28 Wrestlemanias , I'm doing my own personal list of the top 50 matches in Wrestlemania history, and I was wondering does anybody else wanna partake in such a project so that we can do a thread wide poll sort of deal ? We've got over 60 days to watch 28 shows, which is a hell of alot less than some of you guys had to watch for your respective WCW and WWF/WWE lists.
> 
> Just throwing it out there, and if not I'll just fly solo on this one. Hope to get some positive feedback.
> 
> OHYEAHZZZ ! Punk vs Jericho (RAW 5/02/13) : **** 3/4* ....... Still not as good as Punk-Ryback but DAMN GOOD. Punk looking great so far this year, still not a four star candidate out there.


I'm actually doing a countdown list for my top 29 (since wrestlemania 29 this year obviously) wrestlemania matches at the moment, but I will gladly do a top 50 if everyone else is up for it. Still have no idea what I have as number 1. 

Arghh raw hasn't aired over here In Australia, I need me some punk/Jericho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I'm actually doing a countdown list for my top 29 (since wrestlemania 29 this year obviously) wrestlemania matches at the moment, but I will gladly do a top 50 if everyone else is up for it. Still have no idea what I have as number 1.
> 
> Arghh raw hasn't aired over here In Australia, I need me some punk/Jericho.


Damn, good plan. If I owned every event I might give something like that a chance. I have two other projects currently on my plate right now so it's probably best I don't get distracted. (granted one is on 2013 work and I'll have to play that week by week only. Still...I'm fulfilled atm)

Look forward to seeing what you pick. Lets hope with your username I don't see Michaels vs Angle break the top 29. :hmm:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Damn, good plan. If I owned every event I might give something like that a chance. I have two other projects currently on my plate right now so it's probably best I don't get distracted. (granted one is on 2013 work and I'll have to play that week by week only. Still...I'm fulfilled atm)
> 
> Look forward to seeing what you pick. Lets hope with your username I don't see Michaels vs Angle break the top 29. :hmm:


Lets just say it won't be a complete hbk love fest. I'm down to about 40 matches now and it's still hanging in there hbk/angle along with hbk/bret  bring on the hate. 

Just watched HBK vs Taker WM26 :mark: should be a top 5 contender. 

Gonna do a countdown with a write up of each match, and maybe post 1 or 2 a day.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Be sure to tie up the complete list at the end of it so if anyone missed some they can see it in it's entirety.

Oh and don't get me started on how much I loathe Michaels vs Bret from WM. It's too much. I'll gladly watch Michaels vs Angle over it, haha.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Be sure to tie up the complete list at the end of it so if anyone missed some they can see it in it's entirety.
> 
> Oh and don't get me started on how much I loathe Michaels vs Bret from WM. It's too much. I'll gladly watch Michaels vs Angle over it, haha.


Ill try and link them up to the top of every post so people can catch up (Y) 

I think I'm the only person on this forum who can sit through both of those matches  

What's your ratings and thoughts on hogan/savage and hogan/warrior?


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Checked Punk vs. Jericho out on Raw last night and I also say it was very good match. Not on the level of the Wrestlemania match that I liked but still fun. No star rating to give it from me though. Btw, a little weird to see Punk go over clean in it considering the last couple of months with this heel run of his. 

Too bad that it was over Jericho since that guy rarely win matches now. Which is a little of the reason why I haven't cared about him with both of his returns from this and last year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Part of me was torn on the finish being clean. On one hand it was refreshing b/c outside of his other match vs Brodus Clay this year, Punk always seemed to have to sneak away with the championship in the latter months of 2012. And on the other hand it was disheartening to see Jericho lose AGAIN. The man does not mind putting over talent at all. It gets him so much respect, but his fans would kill to see him win more often than not. Story of his career though. Look back at his PPV resume in 2000 when he was rising up the card. He lost a majority of his matches. It's how Jericho rolls apparently. Bless him for being a team player but also damn him at the same time b/c I'm a bit of a selfish fan.

If he had to go down tonight, glad it was the Punker who dealt him the loss.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Part of me was torn on the finish being clean. On one hand it was refreshing b/c outside of his other match vs Brodus Clay this year, Punk always seemed to have to sneak away with the championship in the latter months of 2012. And on the other hand it was disheartening to see Jericho lose AGAIN. The man does not mind putting over talent at all. It gets him so much respect, but his fans would kill to see him win more often than not. Story of his career though. Look back at his PPV resume in 2000 when he was rising up the card. He lost a majority of his matches. It's how Jericho rolls apparently. Bless him for being a team player but also damn him at the same time b/c I'm a bit of a selfish fan.
> 
> If he had to go down tonight, glad it was the Punker who dealt him the loss.


Haha I'm exactly the same. I always really want to see him win just because I'm a fan, but goddamnit I love him for always putting everybody over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I suppose it's the best double edged sword a fan could have. 

For better or worse, I'll always love him for it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk vs Jericho RAW 2/4/13 ***1/2

Really good TV match that just picked up as time went on. Really fun. 

As for Bryan/Mysterio........meh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Jericho's 1st 20 seconds had the best Atlanta atmosphere since... idk when. Then it all fell downwards in terms of crowd. ***1/2 because it was very good, though.

*SummerSlam 2003:
*Resistance/Dudleyz: **
Taker/A-Train: **1/2
Shane/Bischoff: *
Eddie/Benoit/Rhyno/Tajiri: ***3/4
Angle/Lesnar: ****1/2
Kane/RVD: **1/4
Elimination Chamber: ***

I think it's safe to say that Smackdown's side saved this PPV, as the Fatal 4-Way and Angle/Lesnar were really good, and Taker/A-Tensai was entertaining too. The Chamber was fun, and definitely would've had a higher rating had the finish not been so poor. A bit of an overrated SSlam, if you ask me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I was hella scared when I read the Raw results today because I was paranoid that Orton would go one on one with Punk and job to the bitch but thankfully, Jericho took this bullet and Orton dodged it. 

Gonna watch the Jericho/Punk match since everyone is talking about it. Just can't find anything on youtube other than fakes so it sucks.

BORK squashing Miz and MIZARK's return are both (Y).


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk/Jericho was really enjoyable, MOTY for me so far :

****1/2*

Punk/Ryback is a close second for me @ ***1/4

NOTHING this year has come anywhere near these 2.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

For those who do these "projects", once you watch the full show do you go into a video editing program and make a video file for any particular match/segment you liked? I plan to do that with my WWF 2000 project now, but even small files (under ten minutes) end up being p. large files (around 300-400 MB) in Windows Movie Maker.

What video program do you all recommend for doing something like this?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk/Ryback was bullshit imo. Ryback no selling the leg just didn't do it for me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Probably ***1/2 for Punk/Jericho. Think Punk/Ryback TLC is still my TV match of the year so far. I must admit I was quite sleepy when I was watching Punk/Jericho, so I may need to give it another watch as I wasn't as into it as I perhaps should of been due to been very tired.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> For those who do these "projects", once you watch the full show do you go into a video editing program and make a video file for any particular match/segment you liked? I plan to do that with my WWF 2000 project now, but even small files (under ten minutes) end up being p. large files (around 300-400 MB) in Windows Movie Maker.
> 
> What video program do you all recommend for doing something like this?


I've done it a few times and think I may do it more since I'm running low on space and could do away with some of the full shows I'm done with. Not enough is available on youtube and dailymotion, so I should definitely edit out some of the better segments or matches I enjoy.

Sony Vegas 6.0 has been my video editing program for 7 years.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Torrents are your friend Goon, just download whatever program you wish.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Punk/Jericho was really enjoyable, MOTY for me so far :
> 
> ****1/2*
> 
> ...


Sheamus/Ziggler from Main Event is probably still my MOTY but I agree with Punk/Jericho and Punk/Ryback rounding out the top 3.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Salt Upon Wounds said:


> Torrents are your friend Goon, just download whatever program you wish.


Well that is how I plan to acquire the program. I was asking which program is the best one to use since there are so many out there.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I haven't even seen Ziggles/Fella 

I shall have to scout around and check it out.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I got to get started on that Sheamus/Ziggler match. Been hearing lots of good things about it.

But WWE Youtube is making it impossible to find any match these days. All the shows get removed it its uploaded within a matter of minutes and all they upload is like 2 minute clips of the matches.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

WWE is comming down on uploaders for quite some time now, download the whole show from TPB.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Eh i just downloaded it now, i believe it was January 9th?

If not i just got a random episode of Main Event :lol

EDIT: Urgh i forgot Miz is on commentary for Main Event


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ever Wolf said:


> Eh i just downloaded it now, i believe it was January 9th?
> 
> If not i just got a random episode of Main Event :lol


lol. I don't like downloading random ass shows for one match. I use XWT and well, I'm not killing my ratio for a damn TV match! Yeah, I'm a freeleech guy. Big ass files too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'll just seed it for a while, gotta keep DAT ratio up. My ratio's pretty decent so i'm not too worried if i do delete it.

So far it's a good match with a raucous crowd compared to last night :lol but Miz talking about himself is seriously ruining the match.

EDIT: COUNTOUT? It was a great match but fuck the ending. ****1/4* 2nd MOTY for me.


----------



## Jordan- The Shield (Feb 5, 2013)

*WWE/WWF VHS Collection.*

Wondering if anyone can help me , i am looking for bundles of vhs wwe/wwf videos


----------



## English Dragon (Apr 10, 2010)

DO you guys all have some special method for calculating the star ratings you use or is it just on how much you like the match/genera feel?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> I'll just seed it for a while, gotta keep DAT ratio up. My ratio's pretty decent so i'm not too worried if i do delete it.
> 
> So far it's a good match with a raucous crowd compared to last night :lol but Miz talking about himself is seriously ruining the match.
> 
> EDIT: COUNTOUT? It was a great match but fuck the ending. ****1/4* 2nd MOTY for me.


I liked the countout finish. It was something different and it saved Dolph from having to eat a pinfall loss while still making Sheamus look strong.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lord knows Ziggler has had to eat enough pins already this year :cena


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Exactly. Speaking of Ziggler jobbing, still need to see his match against Del Rio from the Smackdown you were at.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It was pretty good. Watched it again when SD aired. Like most Ziggler matches, there isn't much structure/storytelling involved, but tons of back-and-forth action and I can actually rally behind Del Rio as a babyface (despite wanting Ziggler to win).


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Honestly not liking Del Rio as a face, just seems so forced and he just panders to the crowd all the time, just praying for a reaction.

both his matches with Show were pretty shit.
*LMS on SD: ***
*LMS @ Rumble: **

The match against Ziggles is around**** for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lots of faces pander to the crowd 

He got a pretty great reaction in San Diego, but that might be expected given it's so close to Mexico. I enjoyed the LMS from SD and his match w/Ziggler. LMS from RR was entertaining but nothing special.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

From Raw:

Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio - ★★¼ (Short and sweet, could have been a huge classic if it had happened 7 or 8 years ago.)

Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett - N/A (Fuck this match-up. I'm just glad Orton didn't job again because that's a disgrace.)

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - ★★★½ (Very good match and possibly the best of the year so far on TV. Very good back and forth, both do their part and apart from Punk winning, I enjoyed it. Also random side note: Holy fuck @ Punk's teeth. DEY R SO YELLOW!)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

A comment about Danielson/Mysterio: At first I was super excited when I saw they were wrestling, then I remembered it isn't 2006 and Mysterio is less than a shell of his former self. Seriously, he looked bad last night. Really bad. Danielson made the match enjoyable, but it's almost sad watching Rey perform nowadays. I've always been one of his biggest advocates, but I think it's time to hang it up.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Rey's legs are all fucked up. Shame really.

Punk V Jericho ***1/2. They got a "This is awesome!" in ATLANTA. So you know it was good.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^Brock killed Miz with that chair.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That was fucking hilarious. When they showed the replay, you can see Miz glaring @ Brock like "wtf are you doing???" only he knows better than to actually do anything about it. :brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, poor Miz. I think he gets a lot more hate than he really should. Not a fan of his or anything, I'm completely neutral.

Rey should definitely retire at WM29. It's painful to watch him slowed down and with a gut that forces him to cover his torso. Plus he really looks like a midget in that outfit. Like a real one and not in hyperbole terms.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Ever Wolf said:


> Honestly not liking Del Rio as a face


Yeah, me neither. It's just so stupid, now they're trying to convince us he's a good evil millionaire or what?

That being said, the SD LMS rocked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rey/Bryan was OK for what it was, a short filler match between two of the best in the world (despite Rey being body fucked). Although that's not saying anything, 3rd best match of last night would be Sheamus/Kane IMO. Very solid 3 minute match that kinda reminded me of the Sheamus/Show matches in terms of hard-hitting stiff brawling.

WeAreProWrestling's Top 15 WWE/TNA matches of January '13 (This guy has some cool videos, one of the best wrestling-based posters on YT for sure) - bolding the WWE ones for obvious reasons regarding this thread:
*15 - Sheamus/Barrett SD 1/25 (***)
14 - Miz/Ziggler Raw 1/21 (***)*
13 - Angle/Anderson Steel Cage (***)
*12 - Orton/Cesaro ME (***1/4)*
11 - Storm/Daniels Genesis (***1/4)
10 - Jeff/Storm IW 1/24 (***1/4)
*9 - RR Match (***1/2)
8 - Punk/Ryback TLC (***1/2)
7 - Sheamus/Ziggler ME (***1/2)
6 - ADR/Show LMS RR (***1/2)
5 - Cena/Ziggler Steel Cage (***1/2)*
4 - Jeff/Aries/Roode Genesis (***3/4)
*3 - ADR/Show LMS SD (***3/4)
2 - Cena/Ziggler Raw 1/7 (***3/4)
1 - Punk/Rock (***3/4)*

Not sure if I agree on Punk/Rock being the best match of January (let alone MOTY so far), since I have a higher opinion on Jeff/Aries/Roode and Punk/Ryback TLC, but I like the overall list I'll say. Although I'd say too that the Cena/Ziggler Cage match is SEVERELY overrated (above Sheamus/Ziggler ME and Punk/Ryback TLC).


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Btw, The Miz is an embarrassment.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not a bad list. Don't agree with the praise for Cena/Ziggler or Punk/Rock but apart from that the good matches have been recognized (Punk/Ryback, Sheamus/Ziggler, Del Rio/Show).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, after that... horrible, terrible, shitty, atrocious, purposely GOD AWFUL show last week...this week brought me back from the brink of destruction as far as wrestling goes.

CM Punk was awesome at the start of the show. Booker T fucking up like only Booker T can was hilarious. Managing manager.

Cesaro is probably the only guy aside from Punk right now that can do something half way decent with Ryback.

Cody/Del Rio was short and somewhat sweet. Show's promo was good too.

BRYAN VS REY :mark:. Second time it's happened now, right? Good match... and if that wasn't enough... MARK FUCKING HENRY. Oh god YES. I'm thinking he'll be in the chamber in place of someone like Khali. God I hope he fucking wins. Henry to win the WHC at WM, one more run with the belt, then he can retire as he's been teasing retirement for a while now.

And all of that was just the first hour (well, first hour of my download, with no ads and shit lol). That shit's better than anything else this year. WWE or TNA.

Mysterio, Bryan & Orton confirmed for the EC match. Good start. Get Sheamus, Henry and Swagger (I like him still  ) in there and I'll be a happy bunny.

Sheamus Vs Kane! Should be a decent slugfest at least. Speaking of, anyone else see the thread on WF about Sheamus/Lesnar? Just someone asking how many people would want to see the match now that Lesnar signed for another 2 years. I never even thought about it, but fuck, how awesome could that match be?

So yeah Sheamus/Kane was good too. I'm so fucking happy with this show so far lol! MOAR seeds planted for the break up of Hell No. But if Bryan is in the chamber match... does this mean their blow off match will be at WM? Not what I'd want for Bryan at the biggest show of the year. But then again... last 2 years haven't been great to him anyway lol.

Miz TV. Boo! HEYMAN AND LESNAR ON MIZ TV. YEY! Heyman and Vickie were great. Loved how the camera man in the ring was seen getting the fuck out of there when Lesnar's music hit. Little thing that I loved. LESNAR MURDERS MIZ. And with the main event being Jericho and Punk still left on the show, there isn't much time for them to give me something shitty this week .

And just as I say that... Wade Barrett Vs Randy Orton. I jinxed myself, didn't I?

Punk/Jericho made up for that match though. Awesome shit. Was far better and even felt bigger than Rock/Punk at the RR. LOL. Think I even liked it more than their ER match. Definitely a MOTYC right now, possibly even edging out Ziggler/Sheamus as my #1 match so far.

Bruno in the HOF. Shame that they announced it on WWE.com BEFORE the show which took away from the surprise. Still, great to see. He might not have any classics that I'm aware of, or was anything special in the ring, but he WAS the champion for 8 years and was THE man in the WWF in the 70's and he deserves the HOF for sure. Glad he finally accepted. Now maybe people will stop ripping on the WWE HOF quite as much now he's going in lol. Nah, people will always bitch. After all, Savage still isn't in .

So we have FOLEY, BACKLUND AND BRUNO going into the HOF in MSG this year. Fuck, what a line up. Trish going in it good too, but yeah, she looks completely out of place in this line up imo, but as a female wrestler there really isn't any way to compare her to most of her male counterparts. Who the fuck else are they gonna put in this year?

Del Rio showing up at the Hotel to get Show... totally didn't see that coming LOL. Brawl was good, was expecting it to be some shitty punch fest and slamming into walls like they normally do, but they kept it short with Show smashing Del Rio through a table then Del Rio knocking Show out in an actual believable fashion.

Cena calling out the Shield. What you reckon Rock will show up for the save. After all, he IS the champ and he's yet to be on the show. BRAD MADDOX. He's gonna call out the Shield instead :mark: HE'S A REAL HERO. JUSTICE AWAITS YOU. BANE MADDOX. ABMROSE ON THE MIC.

Cena, Sheamus and Ryback coming through the crowd like Shield. Roster show up to prevent them from escaping. Bigger version of what happened on NXT when Big E won the title I guess. Speaking of, where was DOLPH AND AJ this week? Should have done something with them instead of Orton/Barrett for the billionth boring time. Glad the Shield at least managed to escape rather than get destroyed this week. It's still too soon for them to get what's coming to them imo. Plus it needs to happen on PPV. WM will be fine.

Damn, what a fucking GREAT SHOW overall. Can't remember a show being this good. No Rock was awesome, yet laughable because HE'S THE FUCKING CHAMPION. Great idea giving the main title to a guy who simply can't make it every week. No Dolph and AJ makes me sad because Dolph is awesome and AJ makes me tingly in my man parts.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah that was the best 3 hour RAW we've seen in very long fucking time.

Lesnar destroying MIZ is already my favorite moment of the year and I don't see how it could possibly be beaten out. All I could think about when BROCK was in the ring with Miz was how pathetic Miz looked compared to Lesnar, and that if Lesnar had stayed guys like the Miz would have never been able to look believeable as champion.

BROCK could be here for another 2 years, it feels like it's too good to be true but DAMN.... Just no Ryback/Brock PLZ.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Miz trying to look tough by shoving BROCK was the worst mistake of his fucking life.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I thought that segment did great things for Miz as a face without hurting Brock one bit.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Probably hyperbole but last night's Raw was the most I've enjoyed Raw start-to-finish since the night after Mania. 

I'm a mark for Punk, Bryan, Jericho, Lesnar, Heyman, Shield and HENRY~! taking up all the airtime though. They could do a 3 hour game of Raw musical chairs with those guys and I'd be as happy as Larry.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Miz's mean face when Brock came out :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah that was the best 3 hour RAW we've seen in very long fucking time.
> 
> Lesnar destroying MIZ is already my favorite moment of the year and I don't see how it could possibly be beaten out. All I could think about when BROCK was in the ring with Miz was how pathetic Miz looked compared to Lesnar, *and that if Lesnar had stayed guys like the Miz would have never been able to look believeable as champion.*
> 
> BROCK could be here for another 2 years, it feels like it's too good to be true but DAMN.... Just no Ryback/Brock PLZ.


Uhhh... even without Lesnar there Miz didn't look believable as champion :lmao.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Jericho last night >>>>>> Punk/Jericho Mania 28 by 20 million miles.

BROCK LESNAR.

That is all.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What I love about Lesnar is that he makes everything feel so much more real than anybody else on the roster. Whenever he comes out there's a "oh shit, somebody is LEGIT gonna get fucked up" feeling.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I started to watch The Great American Bash series, and today i watched the first one from 2004, here are the ratings:

US Title: Cena/Dupree/Booker T/ RVD- ***
Charlie Haas vs Luther Reigns- *
Cruiserweight Title: Chavo/Mysterio- ***3/4
K.Suzuki/Gunn- *1/2
Sable/Torrie- DUD
Mordecai/ Bob Holly- DUD
Eddie Guerrero/JBL- ***1/2
Dudley Boys/Taker- **

Final thoughts: Well this was bad, i mean who wants to see a Bob Holly/Mordecai match at a PPV? The WWE Championship Match, the Cruiserweight Championship match and surprinsingly the US Title Match were goodm, but the rest was awful


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FRENCH TICKLER~! 

That guy was LEGIT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah. LEGIT SHIT. Same for that 4 way match. Would struggle to go past *.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The guy is just scary. The atmosphere changes when his music hits. It's exactly what *TLK *says, his music hits and there's this feeling that somebody is going to die. It's brilliant and makes me mark out to no end. I'll never forget sitting ringside at the Raw after Mania 28 where he walked right past me. I knew he was big guy. I didn't know he was _that _big. Legit freak of nature. I think the segment with Miz was booked to perfection. Miz came out of that looking great and so did Brock. It also highlighted the fact that Lesnar simply can't work with just anybody. Him staring down Miz was like watching a lion stare down a fucking squirrel or something. Borderline ridiculous. BORK. He has too much legitimacy if that's even possible. Every time I watch him chuck that chair at Miz it gets better every time. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm kinda starting to believe that BROCK working w/Taker might be a mistake. He might break him.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jericho/Punk ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I'll never forget sitting ringside at the Raw after Mania 28 where he walked right past me. I knew he was big guy. I didn't know he was _that _big. Legit freak of nature.


I was wondering that myself, he looks big on screen, but you never gauge an exact size by just what you see onscreen, i thought Miz - just run..quick, but then i thought, fuck no, stay there, and when Heyman was shouting "He's sorry", i was saying no he aint, couple more F5's please :ex:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Jericho - ***3/4

That match owned so hard.

And I'm actually liking Del Rio as a face. I think he works way better this way.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm kinda starting to believe that BROCK working w/Taker might be a mistake. He might break him.


Brock shooting on Taker 4 REALZ to end the streak 4 FAKEZ. I don't think so though. Did you see Taker's back after last year's match? He was beaten black and blue. I'm sure he'd be fine.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I love Heyman begging Brock to stop attacking people and pleading with Vince/Miz to leave the ring. Adds yet another layer of badass.

I can't remember if they ever had that dynamic during Brock's first run (don't think they did), but it's epic.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm kinda starting to believe that BROCK working w/Taker might be a mistake. He might break him.


I remember reading something like that online and honestly, I can see it. Lesnar is just a freak of nature and 'Taker's up there in age and his body is breaking down. I get the feeling Lesnar would destroy him.



Duke Droese said:


> I love Heyman begging Brock to stop attacking people and pleading with Vince/Miz to leave the ring. Adds yet another layer of badass.
> 
> I can't remember if they ever had that dynamic during Brock's first run (don't think they did), but it's epic.


Managers usually calm down their client, but it's the opposite here. Heyman is begging Brock to stop. It's awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Brock shooting on Taker 4 REALZ to end the streak 4 FAKEZ. I don't think so though. Did you see Taker's back after last year's match? He was beaten black and blue. I'm sure he'd be fine.


Yeah, Taker took a beating last year for sure, but HHH is far more controlled that Lesnar. One wrong hit and Taker is done. That being said, I'd still like to see the match.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

BORK


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> What I love about Lesnar is that he makes everything feel so much more real than anybody else on the roster. Whenever he comes out there's a "oh shit, somebody is LEGIT gonna get fucked up" feeling.


This. And after his return last night, Henry certainly gives that feeling to. Just not as much as Lesnar.



Brye said:


> Punk/Jericho - ***3/4
> 
> That match owned so hard.
> 
> And I'm actually liking Del Rio as a face. I think he works way better this way.


I've been enjoying his matches more as a face because they've become more unpredictable, with him implementing more of a lucha style into his matches with him busting out hurricanrana's and stuff. Just re-watched Ziggler/Del Rio from Smackdown and it was more interesting than any Del Rio/Sheamus match from last year for example, thanks in part to Del Rio's new style in the ring and new direction of his character that the crowd actually react to, and thanks to Ziggler being awesome as usual.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I definitely got a hint of that feeling from Henry, too. Brock is just on another level, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HENRY VS LESNAR.

WWE has potential for soooo many awesome matches right now... that it sucks even more with the direction they seem to be going in with rematches and shitty matches in general. Bastards.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, Taker took a beating last year for sure, but HHH is far more controlled that Lesnar. One wrong hit and Taker is done. That being said, I'd still like to see the match.


Taker/Brock is the match I want most for Mania 29. I wouldn't even care that much what else we got if that happened. If Taker really is in as bad shape as it's made it though, then yes, putting him in there with Brock probably isn't the best idea. God forbid something goes wrong and that's it. No Taker/Cena for Mania 30 and no more Taker period. Who knows what his bill of health is. Now the dirt sheets are reporting that it's not about his health and that he's holding out for money and his spot on the card lol.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Big Z said:


> HENRY VS LESNAR.
> 
> WWE has potential for soooo many awesome matches right now... that it sucks even more with the direction they seem to be going in with rematches and shitty matches in general. Bastards.


Monster heel vs monster heel would be great change of pace but I don't think either of those two would benefit much from that feud at this point of their careers.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Oh my god the new Royal Rumble blu ray actually has that god awful Cena promo the Monday just before the Rumble :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> *HENRY VS LESNAR*.
> 
> WWE has potential for soooo many awesome matches right now... that it sucks even more with the direction they seem to be going in with rematches and shitty matches in general. Bastards.


YOUR WISH HAS CAME TRUE:


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

There goes the neighborhood...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I just can't see myself buying into Lesnar in a program with somebody below the Cena's, HHH's and Taker's of the world. It just isn't going to work. I enjoyed the Miz segment and all and think Miz got a major rub from the fact that he even tried to stand up to Lesnar but these guys in a match or something? Come on lol. It's never working, at least not for me.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Punk/Jericho ***1/2
Bryan/Mysterio **1/4

Loved this raw, MARK HENRY. And Lesnar throwing the chair at Miz still makes me laugh. The only people on the roster right now that give the feeling that somebody's legitimately going to get destroyed are Lesnar, Henry, and The Shield.

Lesnar's just a monster and even though I would love to see the match, I'd be terrified of watching Taker face Lesnar because Lesnar could kill Taker, especially with the way Taker looks now. 

It really looks like Henry's going to be in the Smackdown EC so we might get Henry/Del Rio at WM. MORE HENRY MONSTER HEEL GREATNESS, please give him the title again. We need another dominant Henry monster heel title reign. Face Del Rio is much better than heel Del Rio so i'm pretty sure that would be an awesome match. Just give them 20 minutes at WM.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's really strange because I should be ecstatic ; Brock vs Trips was one of my favorite matches of the past few years, and couple the fact that it's two of my three all time favorites at WRESTLE FUCKING MANIA mixes up to be a recipe for like... My favorite match ever.

On paper, Rock/Cena, Lesnar/HHH, and Punk/Taker looks fucking AWESOME, and that's not the problem. The problem is the complete ineptness of the creative team to do anything but rehash old rematches. Don't gt me wrong ; I'll love Lesnar/HHH and Punk/Taker no doubt if it happens, but the possible card they COULD HAVE DONE kind of pisses alot of people off.

I still think there's a curveball in here somewhere, but if we get a Henry/Del Rio WHC match @ Mania it could make for a really, really awesome card.

The best example of Heyman being awesome for BROCK is in his match against Hogan @ SD 02. Heyman keeps giving Lesnar advice, screaming "HE'S HULK HOGAN! HE'S DIFFERENT BROCK!", really building how important and how big that match really is. BROCK. BROCK. BROCK.

vs Sheamus = Amazing
vs Bryan = Amazing
vs Punk = Amazing
vs Cena II = Amazing
vs TAKER = OMFG RIGHT NOW PLEASE
vs ROCK = YES! YES! YES!

; primary BROCK matches I'd love to see.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

So many guys I want to see Lesnar get in the ring with, Sheamus is a big one, The guy has the size so he won't look a joke stood in the ring with him and they could have a great little brawl

Taker/Lesnar is the one match I want to see at Mania 29 now we aren't going to see Rock/Brock.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Bork vs Bryan would knock off Bork vs Eddie imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another match I'd fucking mark out to would be BORKLASER vs Kane. Saw in the internet talk about back in 02 Kane being the only guy backstage strong enough to actually legit beat BORK in arm wrestling. Would be awesome to see two of my all time favourites clash, regardless of the stage.

Top 5 THE BRAWK matches?
Mine in no particular order:
vs Cena ER 2012
vs Angle SSlam 03
vs Angle Iron Man
vs Benoit SD 03
vs Taker NM 02


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I were a betting man, I'd say that Lesnar beats Cena for the belt later this year in a rematch, potentially @ Summerslam. Another thing I wanna mention ; If we get BROCK-GAME II, I'm not sold on Trips winning at all TBH.

NO SELLING THE PEDIGREE INTO A KIMURA LOCK. :brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Another match I'd fucking mark out to would be BORKLASER vs Kane. Saw in the internet talk about back in 02 Kane being the only guy backstage strong enough to actually legit beat BORK in arm wrestling. Would be awesome to see two of my all time favourites clash, regardless of the stage.
> 
> Top 5 THE BRAWK matches?
> Mine in no particular order:
> ...


I'd probably agree with that match mate tbh, throw in the Rock match too (personally, i love that match, the double kip-up is great too)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

vs. Taker HIAC - **** 3/4
vs. Eddie NW0 04 - **** 1/2
vs. Cena ER 12 - **** 1/2
vs. Benoit SD 03 - **** 1/4
vs. Big Show JD 03 - **** 1/4

Honorable mentions - vs. HHH Summerslam 12 - ****, vs. Kurt Summerslam 03 - ****, vs. The Rock Summerslam 02 - *** 3/4

If this man stayed from 04 to now, oh my gawd. Imagine matches with 09 Christian, 06 Rey, 08-09 Jeff Hardy, 05-08 Matt Hardy, even five minutes with Evan Bourne would be fun as hell. Not to mention Shawn Michaels, Jericho, Orton, Umaga possibly and a longer match against Bob Van Dam. Ffs, why did he have to leave.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Brock Lesnar is my new hero after last night's segment. The guy is just a beast, I am loving his presence. And I can legitimately watch him throw that chair onto Miz for hours. Does that make me a bad person?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn, forgot about the match with Eddie on my top 5 - shame on myself for forgetting such an amazing rollercoaster 

Another great BORK match would be the WM 19 one with Angle. I feel like that's kinda underrated, despite the botched SSP (which, IMO, made it even more dramatic and intense).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Lesnar:

1. Vs Angle SS 03 *****
2. Vs Undertaker HIAC NM 02 ****3/4
3. Vs Guerrero NWO 04 ****3/4
4. Vs Angle Iron Man SD 03 ****1/2
5. Vs Cena ER '12 ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Brock Lesnar is my new hero after last night's segment. The guy is just a beast, I am loving his presence. And I can legitimately watch him throw that chair onto Miz for hours. Does that make me a bad person?


No, ive seen that segment about a hundred times already, nothing better than seeing Brock destroy someone, hell, go back and watch his first WWE run


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Top 5 Lesnar:
> 
> 1. Vs Angle SS 03 *****
> 2. Vs Undertaker HIAC NM 02 ****3/4
> ...


***** on Angle/Lesnar SSlam? DAT OPINION. Indeed, amazing chemistry, amazing selling and great pace that match had, but I wouldn't go for the full five. But oh well, opinions are opinions


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure I'm the only one . Thought it wouldn't hold up when I did the top 100 WWF/E Poll a couple of years back but fuck, it held up better than ever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To be fair, so many people voted Angle/Lesnar WM 19 above the SSlam one, and while that one's great too, I do feel like WM 19 is a notch below the SSlam match. As a matter of fact, it gets credibilized as one of the GOAT WM Main Events ever. Gets too much talk about being underrated, so much that has actually became overrated. A great match? Yeah. Potential GOAT contender? Hell no. SSlam is the truly underrated match 

Speaking of underrated, finished watching another great BORKLASER match: BORK/Rey from SD 03. About ****1/4 material in my book. BORK/Eddie-like David vs Goliath storytelling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 BORK matches:
1. vs Eddie - NWO 04 - ★★★★¾
2. vs Taker - NM 02 - ★★★★½
3. vs Cena - ER 12 - ★★★★½
4. vs Angle - SD 03 (Ironman) - ★★★★½
5. vs Benoit - SD 03 - ★★★★¼

Really hoping we get BORK vs Orton later this year. Along with Taker, it's my favorite match-up for the BROCKTAGON. And in the midst of all the Lesnar praising, I'd like to mention how he's turned into the silent monster who never talks and just kicks ass. Heyman begging him to stop every time makes it even better!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Orton, why?

It's not like Brock is going to wrestle vs every other tom, dick, and harry on the roster.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I don't think Orton is big enough to face Brock anymore. Jesus it would suck anyway without GOAT HEYMAN to do the talking.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's my point. Outside of the match being fun for a squash, Orton isn't on that level anymore. It would be someone like Sheamus or even Ryback who would duke it out with Brock before Randal did.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena, Sheamus, Trips, Taker, Rock, Punk and maybe Ryback are the credible opponents for BROCK.

Orton can stick to matches with Henry, which i wouldn't mind at all.

On a other thought what the HELL is Henry gonna do at Mania? Guy was wasted last year in the terrible tag team match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Brock vs Orton, why?
> 
> It's not like Brock is going to wrestle vs every other tom, dick, and harry on the roster.


Because he's the best full-time roster member.

lol @ indy midget being credible against Lesnar.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Orton lost to BARRETT clean.

That's how credible he is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Orton lost to BARRETT clean.
> 
> That's how credible he is.


And he's beaten him 15 more times so that evens it out. Besides, no one remembers it since it was one month ago.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2012 destroyed Orton and it's his own fault.

He won't be the same again, a go to guy for a main event but he won't hold the WWE Title again, maybe the WHC but that doesn't mean much. IF he were to face Lesnar he wouldn't have a hope.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You're blowing it way out of proportion. Punk jobbed for like 15 PPV matches and was able to bounce back within one month. Orton's credibility can never be hurt. He's at that level now. And how do you know he'll never be WWE Champion again? Have you seen into the future?

And I really don't care about all this credibility crap, JUST GIMME THE DAMN MATCH, DAMMIT!


----------



## TheFox (Apr 3, 2007)

Despite being stuck somewhere in the midcard right now, Orton is still one of the most credible wrestlers on the roster, still extremely over with the crowd. If he gets booked strong untill SumerSlam for example I'm sure a Brock/Orton match would do very good business, I also think it would be a great match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

i dont think they'll put the company belt on someone who is on his 2nd wellness violation.

I think LESNAR vs. Orton (06) would be INCREDIBLE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

People are taking this wellness policy thing way too seriously. Orton is safe, I've heard he does weed on a regular basis and pays a fine to avoid suspension. It's not like his addiction is on 2005-06 levels. He's mellowed out now. On a similar note, didn't Jeff Hardy get the belt while he was on his second strike? There ya go.

And Orton still has it in the ring, he just needs something meaningful to do to get some motivation. I'm sure he wouldn't just go through the motions if he wrestled Lesnar in a big money match. I can't believe people actually hate on him because he doesn't waste his energy for 5 minute matches with Barrett on a weekly basis. fpalm


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Orton is a guy who pull out something notable every now and then but his average match nowadays are just plain, run-through-the-motions stuff that can be really boring. I cannot imagine them running him v Lesnar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol @ the same ol "he needs motivation" thing.

I've said my thoughts on that already, but that's such a pathetic excuse. GIVE ME BETTER BOOKING AND I'LL GIVE YOU BETTER MATCHES. No, you twat. You put your best effort in and hope the company rewards you for it. Besides, it's not like a good opponent magically means anything. He worked vs Cesaro with time and it wasn't good. So there you go.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Yeah, Orton has done nothing for me in years. Give him a decent storyline that actually has some thought behind it like his feud with Christian in 2011 and he can produce some classics. Throw him in a random feud with Wade fuckin' Barrett which has zero direction and just features them having back-to-back TV matches every other week and he's the definition of bland. I don't think I've watched more than one Orton match this year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> lol @ the same ol "he needs motivation" thing.
> 
> I've said my thoughts on that already, but that's such a pathetic excuse. GIVE ME BETTER BOOKING AND I'LL GIVE YOU BETTER MATCHES. No, you twat. You put your best effort in and hope the company rewards you for it. Besides, it's not like a good opponent magically means anything. He worked vs Cesaro with time and it wasn't good. So there you go.


I liked the Cesaro matches.

Still, it's a perfect excuse for him to not give a fuck when he has to wrestle WADE BARRETT every week. He's above this shit and he has every right to phone it in when they screw him over with this kind of bullshit booking.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. That's just sad to justify it. If he doesn't like it - there's the door.

Someone like Christian gets shoveled shit and look what he does. Puts the effort in. Exactly. No amount of Orton marking can't justify this.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 BORK matches:

(****3/4)
1) vs. Taker NM 02
2) vs. Angle SD 03 Ironman
(****1/2)
3) vs. Eddie Guerrero NWO 04
4) vs. Angle SS 03
(****1/4)
5) vs. Cena ER 12


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There's a difference between a good match and a good performance. I don't really expect anyone v Barrett to be good, but if the wrestler opposite him is talented then the performance by that wrestler should be good. Orton isn't bad, but he does nothing to show me he's particularly good any more. Being in there with the same not-good opponent like Barrett isn't an excuse for not being very good yourself.

I don't give a fuck who you are or what position you are in, being in a match with a Barrett multiple times isn't an excuse to phone it in.

EDIT- Nice point @ Cody. Christian is a perfect example. Worked with everyone on anyone on the roster between 09-11 and looked like one of the best wrestlers in the world during that time no matter who was in there or what booking he got. In some cases, the absolute best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what I'm saying. I know it's old and stale as fuck or if Barrett isn't the best wrestler out there. Doesn't mean those fans in that crowd that day feel the same way. b/c probably a lot of them don't watch every single match like how fans like myself or anyone else do. Not to mention house shows too. Does he phone it in there if he has to work vs Barrett 3 days in a row? I hope not.

EDIT ~ (Y) Christian was the first guy to jump out at me for someone who always puts their effort into the bulk of their matches.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I think the fact that Hayley stated is that it really looks that with every match Orton's seemingly going through the motions. He is putting no effort into trying to make his matches different or better. It seems that he has no motivation, and I'm not going to blame that on the booking of Orton because Orton should know that no matter where he is placed on the card or whoever he faces he should give full effort. 

The christian example is perfect


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> There's a difference between a good match and a good performance. I don't really expect anyone v Barrett to be good, but if the wrestler opposite him is talented then the performance by that wrestler should be good. Orton isn't bad, but he does nothing to show me he's particularly good any more. Being in there with the same not-good opponent like Barrett isn't an excuse for not being very good yourself.
> 
> I don't give a fuck who you are or what position you are in, being in a match with a Barrett multiple times isn't an excuse to phone it in.


But here's the thing. Why bother putting effort into a 5 minute match that will be done again the next week which causes all that effort to go unnoticed? Let's say Orton puts more effort in in a Barrett match and it ends up being good. Then they have another match the next week (124989175 on the series) and the previous one will be forgotten about and all that effort will go unappreciated. Might as well phone it in since putting in any efforts helps no one.

As for Christian. He deserves better but I wouldn't blame him one bit if he ever phoned it in due to the garbage they have him put up with. And hell, he's perfect example of how working hard doesn't necessarily get you rewarded.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Ever Wolf said:


> Cena, Sheamus, Trips, Taker, Rock, Punk and maybe Ryback are the credible opponents for BROCK.
> 
> Orton can stick to matches with Henry, which i wouldn't mind at all.
> 
> On a other thought what the HELL is Henry gonna do at Mania? Guy was wasted last year in the terrible tag team match.


Show vs Lesnar would be immensely awesome. Seriously, this needs to happen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Telling people to phone in performances b/c they might not be appreciated by every fan is one of the worst mindsets to have if you're a wrestler. That means only about 5 guys would work hard on every show. I can't even fathom how or why someone would think like that. You're in this business. You know how things work. There will always be a pecking order. Doesn't matter where you're at. You always try and put out your best or at least effort in.

It's like that for any sport. Or most aspects of life actually.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Telling people to phone in performances b/c they might not be appreciated by every fan is one of the worst mindsets to have if you're a wrestler. That means only about 5 guys would work hard on every show. I can't even fathom how or why someone would think like that. You're in this business. You know how things work. There will always be a pecking order. Doesn't matter where you're at. You always try and put out your best or at least effort in.
> 
> It's like that for any sport. Or most aspects of life actually.


Well, I guess we got different views on this thing so that's all I can say. If I know I'm being overshadowed by others in a wrestling show and have to wrestle the same guy every week, I would most definitely phone it in, specially if I'm on Orton's level.

The way they've been treating him since he lost the belt to Mark Henry is just complete bullshit and it's their job to give Orton something proper to do rather than wrestle the same guy every week. Hell, didn't they give him SOMETHING _resembling_ a storyline with Kane for Mania? And the results were far better than random Barrett match #321598891. See, if they give him something, he'll have no problem delivering.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, b/c that didn't reflect anything on Kane being better than Barrett at all.

Orton worked vs Dolph & Del Rio and their matches were nothing. Just like Cesaro again. It doesn't always mean anything. The matches Orton had vs Kane were my pick for biggest surprises of the year. Didn't think their matches would be as fun as they were. Not sure why b/c Orton had fine enough matches with Barrett during their real feud in late 2011 _(I liked some of them at least)_ and Kane was a whole new man upon his return. That shows you how much Orton's work was falling away for me at the time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tbh, his matches with Ziggler and Del Rio at NOC and HIAC were good. As were the Kane matches. Now granted, they are all far better ring performers than Barrett but Orton also DID bother doing more than go through his five moves of doom quickly and just walk to the back. And I don't think I've enjoyed a single Orton/Barrett match. Not from 2010, not from 2011, not from 2012 and still nothing from 2013. HA! These two are never meant to put on a good match together. EVER.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> But here's the thing. Why bother putting effort into a 5 minute match that will be done again the next week which causes all that effort to go unnoticed? Let's say Orton puts more effort in in a Barrett match and it ends up being good. Then they have another match the next week (124989175 on the series) and the previous one will be forgotten about and all that effort will go unappreciated. Might as well phone it in since putting in any efforts helps no one.


When you're a wrestler there's almost no reason to go into that 'tape-trading' sort of mindset of looking back on matches. If you're having a five minute match with Barrett - put the fucking effort in for the audience who paid their money to sit down at the show and those who are watching on TV. Most fans don't go back and watch matches for the sake of rating them or finding rarities or anything, they're there at that very moment to watch something good. 

From a business standpoint, If you mail it in again and again, why would the office-people want to put you in a better position for better matches? They'd probably assume you'd mail it in there, too. 

A wrestler would have be an idiot to whinge about his 'effort going unnoticed' or w/e. I think that's one of the reasons Dolph Ziggler is annoying to me. He has this sort of insider bullshit-type thing (almost gimmick) of 'I gotta make this guy look good b/c I'mma show stealer', when he just sounds like a sook who thinks he deserves the world. Like he's into 'da biz' and kayfabe calling himself 'heel' and going on twitter to say 'I have to make this match interesting' and all that crap. Am I off-topic now? IDK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Tbh, his matches with Ziggler and Del Rio at NOC and HIAC were good. As were the Kane matches. Now granted, they are all far better ring performers than Barrett but Orton also DID bother doing more than go through his five moves of doom quickly and just walk to the back. And I don't think I've enjoyed a single Orton/Barrett match. Not from 2010, not from 2011, not from 2012 and still nothing from 2013. HA! These two are never meant to put on a good match together. EVER.


Kane matches >.

Didn't find anything special about the match vs Dolph and didn't like vs Del Rio. Or any of their matches. 2/3 falls was awful.

Orton vs Barrett from Smackdown before Survivor Series was decent, Tables match was good, & I think their final match - the no DQ - on Smackdown following Rumble 2012 was good. I'd have to relive it. Plus, their brawl in the elevator OWNED. I marked at the silly nature of it, but that's something you can only see in the world of wrestling so I liked it.



> A wrestler would have be an idiot to whinge about his 'effort going unnoticed' or w/e. I think that's one of the reasons Dolph Ziggler is annoying to me. He has this sort of insider bullshit-type thing (almost gimmick) of 'I gotta make this guy look good b/c I'mma show stealer', when he just sounds like a sook who thinks he deserves the world. Like he's into 'da biz' and kayfabe calling himself 'heel' and going on twitter to say 'I have to make this match interesting' and all that crap. Am I off-topic now? IDK.


For some reason this reminded me of:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I personally enjoyed a few of Orton's matches with Barrett from 2011/2012, and I think the majority of their matches are passable for free TV, but they shouldn't be happening as much as they are. Honestly I doubt they could have an impressive match anymore even if they tried, because they've done pretty much everything they could do with each other multiple times. 

Orton in general isn't that great, but my problems with him are essentially what's been said in this thread. He had a great match with Ziggler last year I believe, and an okay match with Del Rio at HIAC, but he just doesn't do much to interest me anymore. His in-ring work has regressed, his mic work is terrible, and coupled with that his character is horrendous. And honestly, I wish I could say I cared that WWE isn't giving him anything meaningful to do, but I don't. Not when we have talents in the main event like Punk, Rock, Lesnar, and guys around the same level on the card right now or above Orton like Jericho, Bryan, Ziggler, even Sheamus I'd put above Orton right now. Even Ryback, who's an inferior talent to Orton in just about every way, appeals to me more due to the nature and freshness of his character than Orton. 

I used to be a huge Orton mark, he was even my second favorite wrestler in the company at one point next to Undertaker, but pretty much from his losing at WM25-when he won the World Title from Christian, my interest had been decreasing in him and then when he took the title from Christian, a guy who deserved to have a shot as the face of the B-brand, it was at that point I realized I didn't even really like Orton anymore. I got to a point of hating him until he lost the title to Henry, and since he's fucked off to the lower main event and been doing little to nothing, he hasn't been at the "hate" level, but rather the "I don't care anymore" level. If he got released tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eye. And if he got fired due to a wellness violation, I don't think it would matter too much anymore in the company's eyes either.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I've always very much enjoyed Orton/Ziggler matches. I feel they have a good chemistry together and they can pull out more in their matches because of that chemistry and the fact that they're both decent wrestlers and it's not a carry job like Orton/Barrett matches. I honestly think Ziggler's Orton's best opponent since Christian.

Orton/Del Rio matches were average at best. Orton/Barrett matches I'm sick to death of and most of them haven't been good at all.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Well, I guess we got different views on this thing so that's all I can say. If I know I'm being overshadowed by others in a wrestling show and have to wrestle the same guy every week, I would most definitely phone it in, specially if I'm on Orton's level.
> 
> The way they've been treating him since he lost the belt to Mark Henry is just complete bullshit and it's their job to give Orton something proper to do rather than wrestle the same guy every week. Hell, didn't they give him SOMETHING _resembling_ a storyline with Kane for Mania? And the results were far better than random Barrett match #321598891. See, if they give him something, he'll have no problem delivering.


It is not completely WWE's fault that Orton's been underutilized in 2012. At the beginning of 2012, Orton suffered an concussion and was out for a few weeks. In the middle of the year, Orton got his second wellness policy violation. In December, Orton suffered an shoulder injury which kept him out of action until January. You can't fault WWE for not using Orton much in 2012 under those circumstances.

Orton shouldn't phone it in even in regular TV matches as it does a disservice to him and his opponent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rawk said:


> I personally enjoyed a few of Orton's matches with Barrett from 2011/2012, and I think the majority of their matches are passable for free TV, but they shouldn't be happening as much as they are. Honestly I doubt they could have an impressive match anymore even if they tried, because they've done pretty much everything they could do with each other multiple times.
> 
> Orton in general isn't that great, but my problems with him are essentially what's been said in this thread. He had a great match with Ziggler last year I believe, and an okay match with Del Rio at HIAC, but he just doesn't do much to interest me anymore. His in-ring work has regressed, his mic work is terrible, and coupled with that his character is horrendous. And honestly, I wish I could say I cared that WWE isn't giving him anything meaningful to do, but I don't. Not when we have talents in the main event like Punk, Rock, Lesnar, and guys around the same level on the card right now or above Orton like Jericho, Bryan, Ziggler, even Sheamus I'd put above Orton right now. Even Ryback, who's an inferior talent to Orton in just about every way, appeals to me more due to the nature and freshness of his character than Orton.
> 
> *I used to be a huge Orton mark, he was even my second favorite wrestler in the company at one point next to Undertaker*, but pretty much from his losing at WM25-when he won the World Title from Christian, my interest had been decreasing in him and then when he took the title from Christian, a guy who deserved to have a shot as the face of the B-brand, it was at that point I realized I didn't even really like Orton anymore. I got to a point of hating him until he lost the title to Henry, and since he's fucked off to the lower main event and been doing little to nothing, he hasn't been at the "hate" level, but rather the "I don't care anymore" level. If he got released tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eye. And if he got fired due to a wellness violation, I don't think it would matter too much anymore in the company's eyes either.


100% the same here for me. Extra emphasis on the bolded part. Maybe that's why I'm so soured like the way I am.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top Twelve BROCK LESNAR Matches (I can do a top 12 because FU) :

1. vs John Cena @ Extreme Rules 2012 (Extreme Rules Match) : ****** (MOTY)*
2. vs Eddie Guerrero @ No Way Out 2004 : ***** 3/4*
3. vs The Undertaker @ No Mercy 2002 (Hell in a Cell Match) : ***** 3/4 (MOTY)*
4. vs Kurt Angle @ SD 2003 (Ironman Match) : ***** 1/2*
5. vs Triple H @ Summerslam 2012 (No Holds Barred) : ***** 1/2*
6. vs Kurt Angle vs The Big Show @ Vengeance 2003 : ***** 1/2*
7. vs The Big Show @ Judgment Day 2003 (Stretcher Match) : ***** 1/4*
8. vs The Rock @ Summerslam 2002 : ***** 1/4*
9. vs Kurt Angle @ Wrestlemania XIX : ***** 1/4*
10. vs Kurt Angle @ Summerslam 2003 : ***** 1/4*
11. vs The Undertaker @ Unforgiven 2002 : ***** 1/4*
12. vs Chris Benoit @ SD 2003 : ***** 1/4*

NOTE ; It's not that I rate matches too high, it's that I actually think Brock is THIS GOOD with some of the best control segments I've ever seen out of an individual. His athleticism is unmatched by any WWE worker past or present , which enables him to be in a class of his own as a monster heel. As a babyface he isn't a slouch either... Think of Sheamus' babyface offensive style as a poor man's Brock Lesnar. Seriously, these are the LESNAR matches that I currently have over four stars, and I honestly think that all of them would be in my top 150 WWE/WWF matches ever. FUCK, the guy hasn't been around for very long and he's currently got three of my top 25 matches in WWF/WWE history under his belt. The most talented worker in the ring ever as far as I'm concerned. Not the BEST, but when it comes to RAW TALENT nobody's better pound for pound than BROCK.. 

Every single Lesnar match is worth watching as far as I'm concerned, even vs Goldberg for the sheer hilarity.

I LOVE RANDY. Don't get me wrong guys, but a face Orton vs a monster heel Lesnar MIGHT work if Orton ditched his traditional babyface comeback like Cena did in his Extreme Rules match earlier in 2012. It pisses me off that the guy has a fucking attitude problem and won't work well with anybody nowadays.... But he has alot of talent and an Orton-Lesnar match would definitely interest me. If he stuck to his "going to a sick place" Viper-esque Randy, it would fucking suck due to the fact that that shit wouldn't really be believeable against BROCK FUCKING LESNAR. A Punk match would work simple ; Punk could try and out smart Lesnar and BAM there we go. Sheamus/BROCK would be too big guys trying to it each other, and Taker/Brock is self explanatory. Bryan-Lesnar would be awesome due to it being a mix of Mysterio/Lesnar with BROCK trying to catch him with shades of Eddie/Brock (LOL VENOM) being thrown in there.

Ryback wouldn't be able to keep up with Lesnar at this point. Fuck that match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> 100% the same here for me. Extra emphasis on the bolded part. Maybe that's why I'm so soured like the way I am.


I understand that but you go over the top with it. You even say he's awful because he's on autopilot as if talent is something that just comes and goes. I understand if you don't like him as he is, but you take it too far. I mean I don't like Cena as he is right now, but I'm still a fan.

And Yeah1993's response was hilarious. Don't know why it cracked me up. Might be the funny example or the bluntness of it. Some very good points, though. But again, working hard doesn't always mean you get what you deserve. Christian was just one example and another is Chris Benoit. Nobody had the talent of his in the ring but he was always treated like shit in the midcards when he should have been main eventing consistently.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On a total change of subject - am I the only guy here who marks for Edge vs Kurt Angle from Judgment Day 2002?

b/c it's pretty LEGIT.

EDIT ~ Nah, it wasn't over the top. It was factual. I've seen you say nothing negative towards Orton. So, until that changes my point about actually pointing out both positives and negatives towards wrestlers will remain fair. I only call it like I see it. Orton's work has dropped off. That's just how it is.

You're going to tell me I take things too far? I'm reading your sig right now as I type this. Pot calling the kettle black here.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> I used to be a huge Orton mark, he was even my second favorite wrestler in the company at one point next to Undertaker, but pretty much from his losing at WM25-when he won the World Title from Christian, my interest had been decreasing in him and then when he took the title from Christian, a guy who deserved to have a shot as the face of the B-brand, it was at that point I realized I didn't even really like Orton anymore. I got to a point of hating him until he lost the title to Henry, and since he's fucked off to the lower main event and been doing little to nothing, he hasn't been at the "hate" level, but rather the "I don't care anymore" level. If he got released tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eye. And if he got fired due to a wellness violation, I don't think it would matter too much anymore in the company's eyes either.


I share similar sentiments. 

Orton was probably my second favorite wrestler in 04, loved his Legend Killer character and I liked him up until 06. After 06 I started to not care for him as much, and when he became the awful viper character and started to get shoved down our throats bad in 09 I started to really dislike him. Then later the Orton/Christian feud didn't help, but I was much more annoyed at Vince at the time for never giving Christian a true chance then Orton, because Orton was just following orders, wasn't Orton's fault that Christian got buried. Now like you, I'm at a ''I don't care anymore'' level with him. It's crazy how far Orton's fallen though, he's a 9 time World Champion, 9 TIME, and he's doing jobs in the midcard. You never saw the likes of Cena, Triple H or Edge losing to the IC Champion or the MITB holder. But with Orton's wellness policy violations, and badly timed injures, it's partly his fault for his downfall.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> On a total change of subject - am I the only guy here who marks for Edge vs Kurt Angle from Judgment Day 2002?
> 
> b/c it's pretty LEGIT.
> 
> ...


Absolutely re: Angle/Edge Judgement Day 2002! One of my favorite matches of 2002, along with HBK/Triple H SummerSlam 2002 (MOTY). Two of the best matches of 2002.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> On a total change of subject - am I the only guy here who marks for Edge vs Kurt Angle from Judgment Day 2002?
> 
> b/c it's pretty LEGIT.


Almost as legit as the PPV's theme song from 12 Stones. ****. Underrated match but I don't know if it was better than their Backlash one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Absolutely re: Angle/Edge Judgement Day 2002! One of my favorite matches of 2002, along with HBK/Triple H SummerSlam 2002. Two of the best matches of 2002.


(Y)

I wished I had their match from Backlash on me. I recall it being pretty awesome too and it would probably open more more appreciation for the rematch such as call back/near falls played off of the original match. Those two had a hell of a 2002 imo. Back when I was so big on Kurt. When he deserved praise.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There was actually a point where I liked Orton just as much if not MORE so than THE GAME during Triple H's absence in 2005. Than he stopped his cocky schtick in 2007 and began to walk slow to the ring and talking like a robot, trying to be some kind of outlaw heel/face/tweener but failing miserably in my eyes.

Probably the only person in the world who has face viper Orton > heel viper Orton. Randy "I'm a cocky prick in real life, I'll fuck your girlfriend while smoking PCP and won't even feel bad about it, watch me strike this bad ass pretty boy pose on the top turnbuckle" Orton is fucking GOD. He was like the poor man's HBK 1997 during that period when it comes to art imitating life. From his intial turn against Taker to his suspension (fuck you Randy) in 2006 he was arguably the best in the company.

UGH. That FUCKING 2009 feud with John Cena. WORST.

EDIT : Love me some Edge/Angle from Judgment Day 2002, which is strange because at times I can't stand Edge and Angle isn't really the greatest in my book either, but these were DA GOOD OL' ANGLE DAYS!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> I wished I had their match from Backlash on me. I recall it being pretty awesome too and it would probably open more more appreciation for the rematch such as call back/near falls played off of the original match. Those two had a hell of a 2002 imo. Back when I was so big on Kurt. When he deserved praise.


Same here. I actually had Backlash 2002 on DVD but lost it along time ago. Haven't seen that match of theirs in awhile because of that. Have to check that out soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah, that's too bad. Even though Triple H vs Hulk Hogan is horrible, I'd still be upset at losing a DVD. I thought I lost MITB 2012 recently and I pitched one heck of an angry fit. :$ Found it and it was probably one of the happiest days of my life.

If Angle vs Edge from Backlash is on dailymotion or something I'll mark out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> EDIT ~ Nah, it wasn't over the top. It was factual. I've seen you say nothing negative towards Orton. So, until that changes my point about actually pointing out both positives and negatives towards wrestlers will remain fair. I only call it like I see it. Orton's work has dropped off. That's just how it is.
> 
> You're going to tell me I take things too far? I'm reading your sig right now as I type this. Pot calling the kettle black here.


So you want me to criticize Orton? I'm pretty sure I've done it when it has been deserved. He might have had a chance at returning to the main event but screwed up with the suspension last year. Other than that, I don't think I can fault him for anything other than having had a piss poor attitude at times when he could've gone places. Him phoning in 310808135 matches against Barrett is something I can fully understand.

As for my sig... at least I'm not a Punk fan. You are an Orton fan and try to paint him as untalented despite recognize his greatness when he's at his best. There's a difference. I did that with Cena for a short period so if there's an instance of "pot kettle black", that was it.

On the topic of JD 02:

Angle/Edge - ★★★¼
Hogan/Undertaker - ★★★½ (Awesome!)


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

HHH vs Hogan was terrible until the ending brother.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge/Angle JD 02 gets ****1/4. Awesome fucking match, and is #84 on my top matches list. #11 best match for Edge, and #10 for Angle.

Taker/Hogan JD02 I have a soft spot for if I'm being honest. I wouldn't put it at ***1/2 like our good friend Choke2Death... I'd probably struggle to put it at **1/2, but seeing Taker and Hogan in a match together was always awesome, especially when it happened as back then as a kid I was a huge mark for both guys. To put it in perspective, it'd look like I hate Punk right now compared to how I marked for Taker and Hogan respectively back then, and it's a shame they never got the "big-time" treatment... then again, their matches never deserved it based on quality, but eh...


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Ah, that's too bad. Even though Triple H vs Hulk Hogan is horrible, I'd still be upset at losing a DVD. I thought I lost MITB 2012 recently and I pitched one heck of an angry fit. :$ Found it and it was probably one of the happiest days of my life.
> 
> If Angle vs Edge from Backlash is on dailymotion or something I'll mark out.


Here it is
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bsbl_kurt-angle-vs-edge-backlash-2002_news#.URHEyfKp_bw

The Backlash is the best match in their feud.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H vs Hulk Hogan @ Backlash 2002 is the worst Triple H match of all time.

YES. Worse than the Steiner matches, atleast those had ridiculously horrible entertainment value unlike that boring piece of shit. I LOVE THE GAME and at times I can mark for Hogan when he isn't in WCW of course, but fuck, what a terrible, terrible match.

THE GAME went from being THE BEST worker in the company, to one of THE WORST, to one of THE BEST again. What a fucking roller coaster of a career, still say from DEC 03 - JUN 06 THE GAME fucking rocked in the ring though, homie straight up brought it 90 percent of the time with his RR 04 vs Shawn being one of the exceptions (BAD).

YES! YES! YES! LOVE FOR TAKER-HOGAN! So much better than the bad matches those two put on in the 90s, just goes to show you how remarkably better Taker is when you ASK HIM TO ACTUALLY GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING, better as in one of the GOATs better. Character wise his monster 2002 heel run was a thing of beauty and Hogan seemed to actually care about having decent matches at that point w/ Jericho/Brock/Taker etc.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> If Angle vs Edge from Backlash is on dailymotion or something I'll mark out.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...s-kurt-angle_sport?search_algo=2#.URHFAx02aCk

Edit: was beaten to it lol. At least I linked the one in better quality though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Triple H vs Hulk Hogan @ Backlash 2002 is the worst Triple H match of all time.
> 
> YES. Worse than the Steiner matches, atleast those had ridiculously horrible entertainment value unlike that boring piece of shit. I LOVE THE GAME and at times I can mark for Hogan when he isn't in WCW of course, but fuck, what a terrible, terrible match.


I'd say Taker/HHH KOTR and HHH's true worst match against Koslov at SVS 08 were a lot worse.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH/Taker is a legendary classic. I'm talking KOTR of course.

DAT ROCK RUN IN! :rock


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Here it is
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bsbl_kurt-angle-vs-edge-backlash-2002_news#.URHEyfKp_bw
> 
> The Backlash is the best match in their feud.


Thank you! 2002 was such a kick-ass year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't remind me of Taker-Trips from KOTR. FUCK THAT SHIT. Their match at INSX 2002 is surprisingly good though, check that ish out. Trips-Kozlov is horrendous in it's own right but not Trips' worst match ever for sure. Just insanely dull.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> So you want me to criticize Orton? I'm pretty sure I've done it when it has been deserved. He might have had a chance at returning to the main event but screwed up with the suspension last year. Other than that, I don't think I can fault him for anything other than having had a piss poor attitude at times when he could've gone places. Him phoning in 310808135 matches against Barrett is something I can fully understand.
> 
> As for my sig... at least I'm not a Punk fan. You are an Orton fan and try to paint him as untalented despite recognize his greatness when he's at his best. There's a difference. I did that with Cena for a short period so if there's an instance of "pot kettle black", that was it.
> 
> ...


:lmao

_"paint him as untalented despite his recognize his greatness when he's at his best"_ Once again, so says the guy who has been seen constantly putting down Punk's best matches. I've never second guessed Orton's talent throughout his career. He once was great. That'll never change. It's not like the things I've said weren't echoed by about 3-4 other people right now. Only one that seems to be defending him, his current state, and the idea of phoning it in is yourself. Which doesn't come as a surprise to anyone.

There is a difference between recognizing talent and acknowledging when someone isn't doing anything noteworthy. Orton had good matches with Kane last year. I liked all of them. Had that good match with Sheamus on Smackdown. They feed well off of each other. Did he do anything else worth of note? Nope. Not really. That's just how it went. He's dipped in his ring work. Even when he was still more relevant it's shown. Doesn't matter what the basis for it is - that's the facts. Liking him to this day is one thing, but trying to tell me, or anyone else, I'm in the wrong for not giving him praise often is quite off.

Orton's lost that spark he had years ago where he was capable of being the driving force behind his matches. It wasn't there for long, but he had it once upon a time ago.



Smith_Jensen said:


> Here it is
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bsbl_kurt-angle-vs-edge-backlash-2002_news#.URHEyfKp_bw


:mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Don't remind me of Taker-Trips from KOTR. FUCK THAT SHIT. Their match at INSX 2002 is surprisingly good though, check that ish out. Trips-Kozlov is horrendous in it's own right but not Trips' worst match ever for sure. Just insanely dull.


What? You mean to tell me that you don't love this awesome moment? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ArZOcrG8j0&t=23m28s



HayleySabin said:


> :lmao
> 
> _"paint him as untalented despite his recognize his greatness when he's at his best"_ Once again, so says the guy who has been seen constantly putting down Punk's best matches. I've never second guessed Orton's talent throughout his career. He once was great. That'll never change. It's not like the things I've said weren't echoed by about 3-4 other people right now. Only one that seems to be defending him, his current state, and the idea of phoning it in is yourself. Which doesn't come as a surprise to anyone.
> 
> ...


Meant to say "recognizing" and you added the first "his" before it. Now moving on...

I never said you're wrong. It just caught me by surprise that you would put Orton in the same place as Kofi Kingston and Sin Cara for your 'least favorites'. That's pretty much what I was thinking of when I said whatever I did. I know you absolutely HATE those guys and to put somebody you considered a favorite in the past there along with them seems to me like it's just too much.

And please don't tell me that I constantly put down Punk's best match just because I hate the MITB match with Bryan! Whenever he has a match I enjoy, I always give him credit. The Jericho match last night, match with The Rock, vs Cena at MITB and etc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Match of the Year from 2002 anybody ?

My pick is Lesnar-Undertaker in the cell. The best cell match of all time that isn't the greatest match of all time by my estimations, and a top 25 WWF/WWE match ever. Was actually my favorite match ever for a short period of time back in 2005-2006ish. The pre match video package is one of the best ever too IMO. ***** 3/4*

BY THE WAY... People who call out Taker's selling in this match ? GO FUCK YOURSELF.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> What? You mean to tell me that you don't love this awesome moment?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ArZOcrG8j0&t=23m28s
> 
> ...


That's where his work is at for me right now. He's just not putting anything out there for me to enjoy or find as "special". I can't believe I've seen a better Sin Cara match from this year than something from Orton. To the credit, it was a tag match and it was mostly Mysterio doing the work for his team vs Hell No, but he was out there. Certainly working for Wade EVERY FRIGGIN WEEK sucks, but until I see otherwise he's going to be at the bottom of the barrel for me. I'm very over the guy and if the marking comes back I'll be surprised, quite frankly. Happy, i'm sure. But, surprised nonetheless.

Fair enough, I did what you did and relied off of one specific post. I thought I saw you say you didn't think Punk's work vs Danielson @ Over The Limit was "nothing special" either, so I used that to stomach up my comment. I still don't get the hate on the MITB match. I friggin love the hell out of it. But, we both know that. You actually liked his match vs Rock? Well, that's a new one. I even gave Punk grief for not doing anything noteworthy during that mess, haha.

Oh good grief @ posting The Undertaker vs Triple H from KOTR. That match SUCKS. Why are their matches so hit and miss?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MOTY 2002- Taker/Brock HIAC. Highest match at ****3/4, and what keeps me from going full five on it... at the risk of having to fuck myself at the demand of KingofKings, was Taker's selling towards the end of the match. I just don't see how a broken hand can't cause pain or even the slightest flinch in parts where Taker just didn't seem phased by using it, not to many other problems with it. But besides that the match is damn near flawless. #11 GOAT match.

On Punk/Jericho, ***3/4 from me and MOTY so far, with only Punk/Rock coming close to it at the same rating. Sheamus/Sandow tables match was a very good match and ***1/4, and the Del Rio/Show SD LMS gets *** from me. Del Rio/Ziggler was good as well and I'd put that at the same. Nothing else sticks out for me.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yeah, so far this year, I have Punk/Jericho from Raw last night as my match of the year with a ***3/4 rating. A bit better than Punk/Rock, which I gave a second viewing not too long ago. ADR/Show from Smackdown in the Last Man Standing match also gets a ***1/2 from me and is behind those matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Ryback is my current MOTY @ **** 3/4*. One of the best carry jobs I've seen in a really, really long time with Punk's selling of the knee being GOAT like. I wasn't a fan of the Punk-Rock match at ALL, and I LOVED last night's Punk-Jericho match and it could end up being the first four star WWE match of the year by the time I rewatch it.

It actually blows my mind at times because of just how BAD Ryback is. Seriously, his pacing is some of the worst ever, his move set being awkward as fuck, his selling non existent (even when he's supposed to sell, it sucks) , and his offense being some of the worst I've ever seen in my entire life. Just feels like there's no heart to it at all for some reason, something there should be out of a big time face. Stick him in matches like the TLC 6 man and watch him be good, but as a standard one on one worker with no gimmick attached he's arguably the worst in the company right now alongside the likes of SHIT CARA.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Predictable, but 2002 match of the year personally for me is HBK/Triple H. If you remember going into that match (I do, I was 19 at the time), no one really knew what kind of match to expect. I honestly didn't, either and back then I was as tuned into wrestling (both, the actual programming and dirt sheets/top internet sites) as one can be. WWE did a great job of keeping under wraps just what kind of shape HBK was in and if it would be more of a limited brawl type match (kind of like Bret-Vince at WM26) or if it would be a full-on wrestling match. Like I said, WWE did a fantastic job of keeping that shit under wraps. I legit did not know what type of match to expect going into that one. I honestly thought there might be a chance that it would be a limited brawl type of match (again, somewhat similar to the Bret/Vince match). 

Thankfully, it wasn't. I was pretty blown away by what it was. And even if he was physically able to go full speed 100%, it's one thing to physically be able to do that in your 1st match in 4.5 years and it's a completely different thing to go out there and have that type of match in your first match in nearly 5 years. That shit blew me away and still does to this day. I know it sounds mark-ish, but that's fine by me, and that's what we do here. So be it.  

The back work done by Triple H and selling by HBK is superb. The back-breakers on the chair were some of the first real bumps to HBKs back in 4.5 years. When Triple H had HBK up in the air and was getting ready to drop him on the open chair, you can literally hear the crowd gasp as Triple H drops HBK's back onto the chair. Even the sidewalk slams were getting a reaction from the crowd. The dastardy heel work done by Triple H was fantastic in this match. The story of Triple H being stuck in Shawn’s shadow the past 4 years, despite becoming a main eventer while Shawn was gone was masterfully told. Triple H wanted to end Shawn’s career once and for all while he flourished in the main event and became the new “main event and showstopper.” Crowd was with them all the way rooting for the babyface ol’ timer to win one last time. A great story was told. Pretty fucking epic. I just wish HBK didn’t wear those fucking jeans. Put one of your older attires on, plz.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm going to agree with ShowStopper, HBK/HHH for me was just awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DEM JEANS >>>>>> Shit Brown Survivor Series 2002 HBK Tights. WHY DID HE WEAR THOSE ?!?!?! I know there's a story behind that on his DVD but I honestly forget what it is.

I have Wrestlemanias I-XII watched as of now with the exception of VI which I skipped for some reason. Gonna watch half of it now probably and I'm not impressed in the slightest by this card. FUCK THE WWF AND THEIR OLDER WRESTLEMANIA CARDS BEING COMPRISED OF 90 PERCENT FILLER. Makes these shows nearly impossible to rate as a whole so I have to say they're all shit. Only the main event and Jake vs TED looks good for this one, and there's TWELVE other matches to be watched. UGH, can't wait to move on to XIII-present starting tomorrow once I finish this shit.

Wrestlemanias I, II, and IV are some of the worst shows I have ever seen in my life with each having a bajillion matches with none of them being really good in particular. THAT'S when you need a scale like my version of the CAL SCALE to really deduct points for how shitty some of these matches are. If not ; 16 BAD matches equal up to a show with 6 decent matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Favorite match of 2002? Off the top of my head it is Undertaker vs Brock. I'm sweeter on that year than a lot of other people I know so I'm sure I could conjure up some others that come close to number one.

Michaels/Triple H & Angle/Mysterio from Summerslam.
Edge vs Angle from Judgment Day (and possibly Backlash when I hit that up.)
Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio No Mercy & 2/3 Falls need rewatches, but were great on the last go's.
Goldust & Booker T had some superb tags.

I'm sure Smackdown had some gems too. Edge vs Angle in the cage was awesome too. If I took the time to slam through a lot more I'd have some fun.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> DEM JEANS >>>>>> Shit Brown Survivor Series 2002 HBK Tights. WHY DID HE WEAR THOSE ?!?!?! I know there's a story behind that on his DVD but I honestly forget what it is.
> 
> I have Wrestlemanias I-XII watched as of now with the exception of VI which I skipped for some reason. Gonna watch half of it now probably and I'm not impressed in the slightest by this card. FUCK THE WWF AND THEIR OLDER WRESTLEMANIA CARDS BEING COMPRISED OF 90 PERCENT FILLER. Makes these shows nearly impossible to rate as a whole so I have to say they're all shit. Only the main event and Jake vs TED looks good for this one, and there's TWELVE other matches to be watched. UGH, can't wait to move on to XIII-present starting tomorrow once I finish this shit.
> 
> Wrestlemanias I, II, and IV are some of the worst shows I have ever seen in my life with each having a bajillion matches with none of them being really good in particular. THAT'S when you need a scale like my version of the CAL SCALE to really deduct points for how shitty some of these matches are. If not ; 16 BAD matches equal up to a show with 6 decent matches.


LOL, that is very true, man. Those shit-stain pants were just dreadful. The story is that the woman who makes his attire didn't have them completely ready by the time SS rolled around, they were only half done. Still weird to me to this day that he wore them. I would have just worn one of my old ones, but I guess maybe he didn't bring any of his old attires with him to MSG? I honestly don't know, haha.


----------



## Jordan- The Shield (Feb 5, 2013)

Not sure if this is in the right section on the forum if its not then my apologises.

I am looking for old WWE/WWF Vhs videos original or recorded PPVS does anyone know where i can get them mainly as a bundle or if any of you are selling them? Mainly aimed towards UK fans.

If you could private messege me be a big help , sorry again if its in wrong place:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Forgot about Punk/Ryback TLC and actually just gave it a watch. ***1/2. I actually wasn't that big of a fan of it when I initially watched it, but I loved how everything seemed to flow well, Ryback's offense was very good, Punk's selling was great, and no spots looked too contrived. Punk also looked fairly strong against Ryback... well... stronger than he looked at HIAC anyway.

I'm looking forward to Punk/Rock EC for the simple reason that the more I think about it, the more I get the feeling Punk/Rock was more experimenting on their part, seeing what works while knowing they were going to have a screwy finish that would ruin the match for some anyway. I also think it was to gauge Rock's endurance and for Punk/Rock to figure how to work things better. Now I'm someone who thought the match was great, but still disappointing considering how amazing the feud and promos were going into it. It's probably wishful thinking on my part, but I think Punk vs. Rock at EC is going to be the classic or near-classic we thought we were going to get at the Rumble. I have a feeling they'll use what worked at the Rumble, eliminate/fix the things that didn't, and have a proper finishing stretch/false finishers with more than just a People's Elbow. I'm also certain it'll have a clean finish, or at the very least a dirty finish for a Punk win that isn't some horseshit like what happened at RR with The Shield.

Meh, chances are my speculations are all fallacies, but regardless I'm looking forward to the match. Never thought we'd see Punk/Rock II, especially so soon after the first match, but it excites me nevertheless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought the roles by both Punk & Ryback in the TLC match were very well executed. I figured the match would be good and yet I was still pleasantly surprised by it. It's still sitting a top of my WWE MOTYC list.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MEH, I'm expecting PUNK to pull something out of his ass this time, we'll see where it goes for sure.

Speaking of ORTON, he's taking on MARK HENRY on Smackdown. Heard it was damn good from somebody in attendance, so I'll be paying close attention to see if HENRY can lead Orton back to the promise land of four star matches. THE HALL OF PAIN IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS.

DAT BOY GETTING ANOTHER PUSH !


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll expect nothing from Punk vs Rock II. That way if it actually works - It'll surpass my expectations.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> BY THE WAY... People who call out Taker's selling in this match ? GO FUCK YOURSELF.


Every single time I've watched the HIAC I have not noticed anything about Taker's selling. I don't think it's particularly GREAT, but I've seen so much criticism of it and don't really get it. I actually got to a point where I LOOKED for bad/lack of selling in the match, and still couldn't see it. I go into that match thinking it won't be really really good every time and I'm proven wrong every time. 





Also, Mark Henry. Just Mark Henry.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My expectations lie at a **-*** range with three stars being the absolute ceiling as far as I'm concerned. Rock should be working 10-15 minutes at a really fast and entertaining pace, but instead he works over 20 minutes each time at a pace that seems to be slower than Ryback. Seriously, he has some of the worst pacing I've seen in a very long time.

Come to think of it, Rock nowadays kind of has all of the same problems as Ryback except he has charisma (but for some reason opts to say complete and utter nonsense 90 percent of the time) and his selling is pretty good.

The other three main events however, I'll be looking forward too. I'd bet anybody that after EC is over, the 6 man tag will be the WWE MOTY currently up until Mania probably. The SHIELD just puts in that character work. The Chamber has a TON of potential too if they don't give Khali a spot ; currently we have Bryan, Mysterio, Orton, and Henry in there. Out of all of those in the present day I'd say Mysterio is the worst sadly (his regression amazes me) , and he'll be great cannon fodder for HENRY anyways. FUCK YEAH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you gave out spoilers from Smackdown I'll be a tad peeved, tbhayley.

Even if those two new names in the match do rule.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH TRUST ME, they weren't spoilers, just the fact that we APPARENTLY get a good Henry-Orton match that I'm gonna need to check out. 

I haven't watched Smackdown in YEARS, just realized that. If I hear there was something worth watching I'll check it out but other than that I haven't really watched a full episode of Smackdown in a really, really long time.

Rick Martel vs Koko Ware was actually a pretty decent opener. *** 1/2* from where I sit, better than some of the other Mania openers we were getting in the earlier years.

PS: FUCK WRESTLEMANIA IV.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mark Henry is the only guy who will draw me in SD other than TLK. He had SEVERAL good Orton matches in 2011/2012 so I have to see this. Hopefully he does the Orton pose like he did at a couple of house hows.

Koko Fucking Ware, btw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dude, go back and watch the tag team match from last week. Team Hell No vs Mysterio & Cara. It's like really GOOD.

Plus, Dolph vs Del Rio was a quality match itself too.

First time since I think the Cena vs Del Rio match last year that I liked matches on Smackdown.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MARK "ratings" HENRY brings me back to Smackdown. HELL, I might even watch this week. Come to think of it, I'm a huge fan of the full time talent that's currently in the company ; Punk is my second favorite ever, I ADORE Bryan, Henry, Cena, Show, and Jericho, and I enjoy DOLPH and Del Rio on a consistent basis. That's alot of fucking talent TBH, and I'm hoping "Hall of Pain" Henry's here the entire year for these feuds ;

vs Cena
vs Bryan
vs Jericho
vs Del Rio
vs Sheamus

Does anybody here really wanna see Henry-Del Rio as much as I do ? FUCK that shit would be epic @ MANIA, hopefully DAT BOY wins the chamber.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just watched 3 matches on the Ladder Match 2 Blu Ray:

Undertaker/Edge ONS '08: ***3/4
Jericho/HBK No Merccy '08: *****
Sheamus/John Morrison ****1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker vs Edge @ ONS 08 ; EW.

I really, really like Sheamus-Morrison in the sense that it's one of my favorite ladder matches ever. Sheamus and Morrison had this fucking odd chemistry together that not alot of guys have that they could go out and have a great match no matter the circumstance. 

HBK-Jericho is a universally heralded match though. Seen some people throw the full five, some people throw four at it, and some people being right in the middle of that (like myself). I'd put it as the third best match of 2008 next to Edge-Taker @ Mania and Edge-Taker @ Summerslam. Need to rewatch though, and I won't for a while until I watch EVERY SINGLE WRESTLEMANIA FIRST.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Just watched 3 matches on the Ladder Match 2 Blu Ray:
> 
> Undertaker/Edge ONS '08: ***3/4
> Jericho/HBK No Merccy '08: *****
> Sheamus/John Morrison ****1/4


(Y)

Only difference between us is I didn't care much for Undertaker vs Edge. **1/2

All of their other matches though. Pretty top notch.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Only difference between us is I didn't care much for Undertaker vs Edge. **1/2
> 
> All of their other matches though. Pretty top notch.


Yeah, completely forgot how good Morrison/Sheamus was. That shit was awesome.

HBK/Jericho Ladder Match is hands down my 2008 match of the year and feud of the year. Wasn't too big on the overall Edge/Taker feud. Didn't dig the chemistry ( or lack there of).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay so, since these things fluctuate alot from month to month, your current WWE MOTY for every year since the beginning of the WWE Era ? Essentially what I'm asking for is every *MOTY from 2002-2012*

2002 : Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (No Mercy 2002) : ***** 1/2*
2003 : Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2003) : ***** 1/2*
2004 : Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania XX) : *******
2005 : Triple H vs Batista (Vengeance 2005) : ***** 3/4*
2006 : The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (No Way Out 2006) : *******
2007 : John Cena vs Umaga (Royal Rumble 2007) : ***** 1/2*
2008 : The Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV) : ***** 1/2*
2009 : The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXV) : *******
2010 : The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXVI) : *******
2011 : CM Punk vs John Cena (Money in the Bank 2011) : *******
2012 : John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules 2012) : *******

THE UNDERTAKER RULES THE FUCKING WORLD. Seriously, I never realized that we've had four years in a row with five star matches in each year, that's ridiculously fucked up. If we can credit Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels for anything, it would be setting the precedent for what's expected to get over in today's WWE. We're at an age now where we're getting a classic seemingly every couple of months, whereas pre 1994 that was pretty damn hard to come by in the WWE.

Just the fact that I have four WWE five star matches since 2009, and basically NONE from 84-93 should tell you everything you need to know about that. Guys are just telling better stories nowadays because that's what it takes to get over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yeah, completely forgot how good Morrison/Sheamus was. That shit was awesome.
> 
> HBK/Jericho Ladder Match is hands down my 2008 match of the year and feud of the year. Wasn't too big on the overall Edge/Taker feud. Didn't dig the chemistry ( or lack there of).


No doubt. Those guys produced a hell of a ladder match.

Jericho vs Shawn goes without saying. It was magic. Jericho's work in that series was brilliant.

I'd say Taker and Edge had chemistry. Just not in the environment of a TLC match. All the others _(well, JD is a complete blur to me)_ were well worth seeing. WrestleMania or their Hell in a Cell. Not sure which I like more.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edit: Fuck it, MOTY's for as far back as I can go!:

1987 : Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania 3): ****1/4
1988 : No Idea
1989 : Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage (Wrestlemania 5): ****1/4
1990 : Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania 6): ****
1991 : Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania 7): ****
1992 : Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage (Wrestlemania 8): ****1/4
1993 : Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (King of the Ring 1993): ****1/4
1994 : Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Wrestlemania 10): *****
1995 : Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Summerslam 1995): ****
1996 : Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Survivor Series 1996): *****
1997 : Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 13): *****
1998 : The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Royal Rumble 1998): ****
1999 : The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Fully Loaded 1999): ****1/4
2000 : Cactus Jack vs. Triple H (Royal Rumble 2000): *****
2001 : Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock (Wrestlemania 17): *****
2002 : Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (No Mercy 2002) : ****3/4
2003 : Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 2003): *****
2004 : Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL (Judgement Day 2004): ****1/2
2005 : Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania 21): ****1/2
2006 : The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (No Way Out 2006) : *****
2007 : The Undertaker vs. Batista (Wrestlemania 23): ****1/2
2008 : The Undertaker vs Edge (Summerslam 2008): ****3/4
2009 : The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXV) : *****
2010 : The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXVI) : ****3/4
2011 : CM Punk vs John Cena (Money in the Bank 2011) : ****1/2
2012 : CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit 2012 : *****

(FYI, pre-2000, things get fuzzy for me in the match department, especially pre-1996 and it just gets worse and worse to the point the match you see is the only match I really remember well enough to put on my list)

Totals for top 5 on list:

Taker: 8
HBK: 5
Savage: 4
Hart: 4
Austin: 4


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

2002: HBK vs Triple H SummerSlam '02: ****1/2
2003: Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit Royal Rumble '03: ****3/4
2004: HBK vs HHH vs Benoit WrestleMania XX: *****
2005: Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle WrestleMania XXI: ****3/4
2006: Taker vs Angle No Way Out: ****1/2 (really weak year)
2007: HBK vs Cena RAW: ****1/2
2008: Jericho vs. HBK No Mercy Ladder Match: *****
2009: HBK vs 'Taker WrestleMania 25: *****
2010: HBK vs 'Taker WrestleMania 26: *****
2011: CM Punk vs John Cena MITB: ****3/4

2012: I am honestly torn here between Taker/Triple H and Bryan/Punk. Two completely different matches, obviously. Punk/Bryan easily wins the technical aspect, as it was a technical masterpiece. Taker/HHH win from an amazing drama/atmosphere aspect. It felt like an even onto itself. I could go either way and give both matches ****3/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You guys both have Angle/Michaels as MOTY in 2005 ? DAMN. I liked it on the last watch and I know a ton of people are extremely high on the match, but it wouldn't be in my top five for 2005 IIRC, AGAIN... need to rewatch so we'll see how it goes when I reach Mania XXI . Since this is never ever discussed, here are my runners up ;

2002 : Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Summerslam) : ***** 1/2*
2003 : Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble) : ***** 1/2*
2004 : Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero (No Way Out) : ***** 3/4*
2005 : Elimination Chamber III (New Years Revolution) : ***** 3/4*
2006 : Chris Benoit vs William Regal (No Mercy) : ***** 1/2*
2007 : The Undertaker vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXIII) : ***** 1/2*
2008 : The Undertaker vs Edge (Summerslam) : ***** 1/2*
2009 : CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (Smackdown) : ***** 1/4*
2010 : Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan (Bragging Rights) : ***** 1/4*
2011 : The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVII) : ***** 3/4*
2012 : CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Over The Limit) : ***** 3/4*

I'd consider 207 to be the weakest year, as 2009 and 2010 weren't top heavy per se............ But they were really fucking consistent, seemed like every match was three stars or higher in 2009.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah 2010's key was the consistency. That's what made it so much fun.

2006 deserves a plug b/c it was the year guys like Benoit, Finlay, & Regal stole.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK/Angle is awesome. 2010 is probably my weakest year from a Top 5 standpoint in STARZ, as it's the only year to get as low as **** matches in my top 5 (The WHC EC and Taker/Punk SD September)

Runner ups for 2002 on:

2002: Undertaker vs. Angle vs. Rock (Vengeance): ****1/2
2003: Lesnar vs. Angle (SD Ironman): ****3/4
2004: Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar (No Way Out 2004): ****1/2
2005: Batista vs. HHH (Vengeance 2005): ****1/2
2006: Undertaker vs. Angle (SD 06): ****1/4
2007: Cena vs. Umaga (Royal Rumble 2007): ****1/2
2008: HBK vs. Jericho (No Mercy 2008): ****1/2
2009: Jericho vs. Mysterio (The Bash 2009): ****1/2
2010: Bryan vs. Ziggler (Bragging Rights 2010): ****1/4
2011: Christian vs. Orton (Over the Limit 2011): ****1/2
2012: The Shield vs. Ryback, Bryan, and Kane (TLC 2012): ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think I could make a top 10 from 2010 right now and have every match in there pulling a **** or higher. I think some people sleep on some of the TV classics. I haven't come close to finishing them, but there are plenty in that year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One thing I'll never forgive WWE for ; Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett @ Bragging Rights 2010 & Survivor Series 2010. Both of those matches were fucking HORRENDOUS, and I honestly don't think that we've seen any PPV main events worse since then. Slow, plodding, boring, dull , with absolutely no substance to the matches at all... Kind of makes me sick just thinking about it actually. 

Oh My God... I just realized that the PPV main event before those two was Taker vs Kane in the cell.... Did the WWE just want to run all of their fans away from the product that fall or what ? DAMN. Has there ever been a worse PPV Main event streak than that one ? Pretty sure it's fucking impossible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Have you never seen the main events from 1995?

And yeah, all 3 of those matches sucked the events as a whole had more than enough to make up for them. If Triple H vs Randy Orton managed to not turn off people from WRESTLEMANIA, than 3 crappy matches on some fun lesser shows in 2010 were more than enough to survive.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My MOTY's from 1995 on (w/runner-ups):

1995: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog (Season's Beatings) - _(RU: HBK/Ramon from SSlam)_
1996: Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (Mind Games) - _RU: Bret/Austin from SS_
1997: Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WrestleMania 13) - _RU: Taker/HBK from Badd Blood_
1998: The Rock vs. Triple H (SummerSlam) - _RU: Taker/Mankind from KOTR_
1999: E&C vs. The Hardys (No Mercy) - _RU: Mankind/Rock from RR_
2000: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble) - _RU: Rock/HHH from JD_
2001: The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WrestleMania 17) - _RU: Austin/HHH from NWO_
2002: Elimination Chamber (Survivor Series) - _RU: HHH/HBK from SSlam_
2003: Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff (Survivor Series) - _RU: Angle/Benoit from RR_
2004: Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (WrestleMania 20) - _RU: BORK/Eddie from NWO_
2005: Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 21) - _RU: Angle/HBK from Vengeance_
2006: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker (No Way Out) - _RU: Fatal 4-Way Ladder Match from Armageddon_
2007: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (Raw April 27) - _RU: Batista/Taker from WM23_
2008: Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (No Mercy) - _RU: Taker/Edge from SSlam_
2009: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 25) - _RU: Rey/Jericho from Bash_
2010: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 26) - _RU: Bryan/Ziggler from BR_
2011: John Cena vs. CM Punk (Money In The Bank) - _RU: Taker/HHH from WM27_
2012: The Undertaker vs. Triple H (WrestleMania 28) - _RU: BORK/Cena from ER_

Indeed, KOK. This isn't exactly just a MOTY's list, as it is more like The Undertaker Show out here.

What about *TV MOTY's*, people?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

My memory will be a little fuzzy for a few years, but I'll give the TV MOTYs a shot -

2000 - DX vs. Cactus Jack/Rocky/Too Cool
2001 - Two man Power Trip vs. Jericho and Benoit
2002 - TLC? Need refreshing
2003 - BORK/Benoit
2004 - Evolution vs. Cactus Jack/Benoit/Benjamin/HBK
2005 - Eddie vs. Rey
2006 - Not so sure
2007 - Cena vs. Michaels
2008 - Not so sure
2009 - Swags/Christian or Punk/Hardy Steel Cage
2010 - Didn't watch, other than a few PPV matches I've caught up on. Probably a Christian/Regal match :lmao
2011 - Drew/Masters, Bryan/Henry steel cage or Cena/Rey
2012 - Punk/Henry I or Ambrose/Regal II (from FCW, if that counts?)

I'm forgetting a lot, but those were the matches that stood out and slapped me in the face.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2002 : Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (No Mercy) : ****3/4
2003 : Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (SummerSlam) : *****
2004 : Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania XX) : ****3/4
2005 : The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton (Armageddon) : ****1/2
2006 : The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (No Way Out) : ****3/4
2007 : The Undertaker Vs Batista (WrestleMania XXII) : ****1/2
2008 : The Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV) : ****1/2
2009 : The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXV) : *****
2010 : The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXVI) : *****
2011 : The Undertaker Vs Triple H (WrestleMania XXVII) : ****3/4
2012 : CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) : ****3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This lack of appreciation towards 2010 displeases me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Not gonna post all because generally a few years will have the same match, so will just add individual thoughts.

2002 might honestly be one of the Booker/Goldust vs Christian/Jericho matches, the final one I believe in December.

2003 - Lesnar/Benoit is a good shout. Lesnar/Mysterio is excellent as well but the Benoit story and booking over the course of the night edges Lesnar/Benoit ahead. However I'd go Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle 5/22. Amazing tag match featuring a brilliant Eddie performance on the apron and in the ring. Tajiri plays a great role and Team Angle are fine dissecting the faces with some great tag team wrestling.

2004 would be Benoit/Edge/Jericho vs Orton/Batista/Flair 6/14. Love the booking and build to Orton/Benoit, Benoit being booked excellently as the defiant champion and both Batista but to a greater extent Orton having tremendous showcases. Eddie/Show from April 2004 on Smackdown also shouldn't be overlooked. Arguably one of the most smartest and intricate matches I've seen and a great Eddie performance that typifies what makes him the heralded performer he is.

2006 has to Finlay/Benoit 5/5 or Orton/Rey 4/7. I'd probably lean for Orton/Mysterio just because of how great the chemistry is as well as it being worked like a classic title match with Orton putting in a remarkable performance for someone of his age complimented by Mysterio being in peak form. Finlay/Benoit is violent, beautiful and everything you want from both of them, but I have to just give Orton/Rey the edge.

2007 honest to god has to be Finlay/Matt from Smackdown 6/22. I get Cena/Michaels will likely be the default answer, but fuck Matt's performance is to me the best babyface performance in a match all year on TV (Cena at the Rumble would be #1) and his selling is exquisite and complimented by Finlay's maticulous approach. Just everything I want in a match these days.

2008 is a bit of a blindspot in all honesty. Did Regal/Punk have a couple of matches before the end of the feud in January '09? Will go for one of them if nothing else jumps out at me and they indeed did have TV matches in 08.

2009 is Swagger/Christian 2/24. Nothing comes close imo despite my love of the Punk/Hardy Steel Cage encounter.

2010? Masters/Mcintyre and Goldust/Regal from 8/26 Superstars are majestic. Cena/Bourne vs Sheamus/Edge is the best Raw produced and a wonderful bit of booking and presentation to push Bourne in the eyes of the fans. Cena is excellent on the apron and Bourne plays FIP as well as you would associate him in that role. Rey/Punk 2/12 is neck and neck with Christian/Mcintyre 7/30 for best Smackdown match of the year. Big fan of Swagger/Mysterio as well from June I believe. Swagger was champion and dropped it at the PPV in June so its May or early June. Would go for Christian/Mcintyre overall. Brilliant selling, wonderful control segment, majestic transition spot, great pacing, timing and execution of the babyface comeback. Nothing to pick at.

2011 would be a toss up of Regal/Ambrose I, Henry/Bryan Steel Cage or Cena/Mysterio. I'll go for Henry/Bryan. Great performance from both with Henry being the better guy imo. Bryan being elevated in stature, great execution of the stipulation, callback spots to their early matches with Bryan using the injured ankle as a means to find a counter to everything Henry throws at him, some genuine nearfalls for Bryan as well as Henry selling the injury to convey vulnerability whilst retaining his monster aura as well as anyone sold all year.

2012 would be Regal/Ambrose II for me. Beautiful booking and culmination of the angle. Great Regal performance as the violent technician before one upping himself by playing a fallen and battered babyface even better. Ambrose sells the beatdown beautifully and is wonderfully maniacal on offence late in the match. Violent, nasty, structured perfectly, builds off of the first match and entire feud and has a genuinly smart and perfect ending. Henry/Punk 4/2 from Raw is comfortably #2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of the Regal vs Punker matches were from 2009. First 3 weeks till Punk finally trumped him to win the Intercontinental Championship.

I knew you would be the other guy besides myself to pick Finlay vs Benoit from 5/5/06 as _(one of)_ your favorites from TV that year. That was my clear cut favorite. I'd have to relive a Finlay vs Mysterio match to see if that could come close. Doubt it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> All of the Regal vs Punker matches were from 2009. First 3 weeks till Punk finally trumped him to win the Intercontinental Championship.
> 
> I knew you would be the other guy besides myself to pick Finlay vs Benoit from 5/5/06 as _(one of)_ your favorites from TV that year. That was my clear cut favorite. I'd have to relive a Finlay vs Mysterio match to see if that could come close. Doubt it.


Ah fair enough, had it in my head they started the feud late December time. Nothing else jumps out immediately from 08 though. Maybe a Matt Hardy or Mark Henry match from ECW? HHH/Hardy was on PPV, Cena doesn't have a match that rings a bell apart from the NWO and NOC encounters with Orton & HHH.

Yup, ya got me  . Their 11/24 match isn't far behind either. Finlay/Mysterio 3/24 is generally regarded as their best from that year and in general. Only 9/11/07 (or 11/9, forget which date) is usually put in the same bracket due to the length and structure. 

Thoughts on Finlay/Matt from 6/22/07 btw if you're familiar with it? Its excellent and legit a top 100 match for 2000-09, tempted to put it top 60 on my eventual ballot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Ah fair enough, had it in my head they started the feud late December time. Nothing else jumps out immediately from 08 though. Maybe a Matt Hardy or Mark Henry match from ECW? HHH/Hardy was on PPV, Cena doesn't have a match that rings a bell apart from the NWO and NOC encounters with Orton & HHH.
> 
> Yup, ya got me  . Their 11/24 match isn't far behind either. Finlay/Mysterio 3/24 is generally regarded as their best from that year and in general. Only 9/11/07 (or 11/9, forget which date) is usually put in the same bracket due to the length and structure.
> 
> Thoughts on Finlay/Matt from 6/22/07 btw if you're familiar with it? Its excellent and legit a top 100 match for 2000-09, tempted to put it top 60 on my eventual ballot.


Yeah, Hardy and Henry duked it out a few times on ECW. They're fun. Think the one post Summerslam is GREAT actually. Off the top of my head I think one of, if not my favorite WWE TV match from 2008 was John Cena & Cryme Tyme vs JBL, Cody Rhodes, & Ted Dibiase Jr from 7/14. iirc it was worked as a southern style bout and it totally rocked. I'd probably have to go to something like Taker vs Show in the cage or quite a few from ECW to really lock in my favorites. I'm a bit murky myself, which surprises me. I know if I looked at the ECW listing atm things would click. Not to mention seeing a LOT of these matches only a few times years ago. _(pardon some that made DVD sets like Jeff Hardy's last one which had some good matches vs Cena & Morrison)_

I wished I could tell you, but that's one of those gems that is lost on me. No doubt saw it upon it's original airdate. That had to of been the last time. If I take a break from all of the stuff I got on my plate atm and look for every Finlay match from WWE return I'll be able to tell you all of his brilliance.  _(seriously think he had the greatest match under 2 minutes vs Drew McIntyre in late 2009)_


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, Hardy and Henry duked it out a few times on ECW. They're fun. Think the one post Summerslam is GREAT actually. Off the top of my head I think one of, if not my favorite WWE TV match from 2008 was John Cena & Cryme Tyme vs JBL, Cody Rhodes, & Ted Dibiase Jr from 7/14. iirc it was worked as a southern style bout and it totally rocked. I'd probably have to go to something like Taker vs Show in the cage or quite a few from ECW to really lock in my favorites. I'm a bit murky myself, which surprises me. I know if I looked at the ECW listing atm things would click. Not to mention seeing a LOT of these matches only a few times years ago. _(pardon some that made DVD sets like Jeff Hardy's last one which had some good matches vs Cena & Morrison)_
> 
> I wished I could tell you, but that's one of those gems that is lost on me. No doubt saw it upon it's original airdate. That had to of been the last time. If I take a break from all of the stuff I got on my plate atm and look for every Finlay match from WWE return I'll be able to tell you all of his brilliance.  _(seriously think he had the greatest match under 2 minutes vs Drew McIntyre in late 2009)_


Cool, might try and find that 6 man and see if its as good as you're saying. Can't go wrong with southern style tags (Y) .

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=2#.URJbP2c77BY

Thought I'd save you the trouble of searching for it  . Watch, marvel, rejoice, proclaim Finlay to be the greatest Irishman since George Best and wonder at how Matt Hardy can still be called a subpar worker. Life's greatest mysteries await you.

Finlay's run from 06-08 and then sparese matches in 09 on Superstars and ECW was such a majestic run. He's the wrestler of the year for 2006 alongside Danielson and was just amazing to watch from week to week. Faced the best and worst Smackdown had to offer and never disappointed. Callihan series from 2011-2012 in EVOLVE and WXW produced 2 of the best Indy matches in a few years as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now if that 6 man doesn't hold up, don't come looking for me with a pitchfork knowing you had to stomach a JTG match. This is all memory here. 

FINLAY. I've exhausted my compliments for the man. Regal too. They're simply gods and that's that with me.

Matt Hardy. I'll always like and appreciate the work of the guy. I need to see this match. I watch his most recent match from ROH TV and it was horrible. Which was weird b/c his match on their big event - Final Battle - was good. He did work vs Adam Cole. So, that could have something to do with it. Granted, Matt played his cocky "I'm a superstar" heel role very well.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I've likely seen worse, so you're safe all things considered  . I'd probably just make you finally write up your theory on Trish being better than Aja Kong. I hope that was your New Years Resolution btw.

Ahh Finlay & Regal. Amazes me how they're so similar and yet Regal also manages to differentiate himself in terms of comedy and light hearted humour in his matches. Sad to see there are people who still render them boring when they're brought up as being two of the best workers WWE have ever had on their books.

Matt's mental breakdown and deterioration is a sad sight to see when you look at the immense potential and ability he had. Would have made a fine midcard stalwart with the odd uppercard push every once in a while. Was over, a great babyface worker and surrounded by good workers to put on interesting programs with. Sad to see what he became.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I've likely seen worse, so you're safe all things considered  . I'd probably just make you finally write up your theory on Trish being better than Aja Kong. I hope that was your New Years Resolution btw.
> 
> Ahh Finlay & Regal. Amazes me how they're so similar and yet Regal also manages to differentiate himself in terms of comedy and light hearted humour in his matches. Sad to see there are people who still render them boring when they're brought up as being two of the best workers WWE have ever had on their books.
> 
> Matt's mental breakdown and deterioration is a sad sight to see when you look at the immense potential and ability he had. Would have made a fine midcard stalwart with the odd uppercard push every once in a while. Was over, a great babyface worker and surrounded by good workers to put on interesting programs with. Sad to see what he became.


You'll never let that die. I know I can do it (with the right amount of booze) but I'm almost feeling like the anticipation will trump the payoff. I'll probably get hit with it one night in the most spontaneous drunken stupor ever and post it in rants to see what type of reaction I get.

Knuckleheads, quite frankly. It's like when a poster by the name of...ahh...DoubleDeckerBar. Yeah, that's it, tried to claim to me that Drew McIntyre was like a talentless jobber or something like that. I kind of lost it. In my head, of course. How appreciation for workers like these can be lost is truly a mind-numbing thought. They're the reason why I LOVE to watch this sport.

It is what it is. Funny how for all of Jeff's slip ups, he's managed to bounce back. Be a world champion in the second most popular promotion in the US and have good face performances. Meanwhile Matt had one error and it nearly ruined everything for him. Now he's in a fleeting Indie promotion trying to see if he can recapture any glory that he once at. It might sound like slander, and I'm not trying to bring Matt down now that he's seemingly in a better state of mind, but that's just the facts. TNA wasn't a good fit for Matt though. That drug haven ruined him so much. Prior to where he was out upon earning a release from WWE.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> You'll never let that die. I know I can do it (with the right amount of booze) but *I'm almost feeling like the anticipation will trump the payoff*. I'll probably get hit with it one night in the most spontaneous drunken stupor ever and post it in rants to see what type of reaction I get.
> 
> Knuckleheads, quite frankly. It's like when a poster by the name of...ahh...DoubleDeckerBar. Yeah, that's it, tried to claim to me that Drew McIntyre was like a talentless jobber or something like that. I kind of lost it. In my head, of course. How appreciation for workers like these can be lost is truly a mind-numbing thought. They're the reason why I LOVE to watch this sport.
> 
> It is what it is. Funny how for all of Jeff's slip ups, he's managed to bounce back. Be a world champion in the second most popular promotion in the US and have good face performances. Meanwhile Matt had one error and it nearly ruined everything for him. Now he's in a fleeting Indie promotion trying to see if he can recapture any glory that he once at. It might sound like slander, and I'm not trying to bring Matt down now that he's seemingly in a better state of mind, but that's just the facts. TNA wasn't a good fit for Matt though. That drug haven ruined him so much. Prior to where he was out upon earning a release from WWE.


Lost? Prison Break? I have faith in you Cody.

Yeah Mcintyre used to be a hot topic back when I actually posted in the WWE section outside of this thread. Had many an argument with Pyro over Mcintyre being a very good worker and having to convince people not everyone had to have dynamite mic skills to get a consistent push on the card. Problem constantly remains the fact I'm too nice and towing the subjective line and being met with people trying to laugh off my reasoning without having the care or attention to properly respond.

Aye, who ever would have thought back in 2007 that Matt would be the brother who'd pissed away his chances in the big leagues and become an embarassment of himself. Just never had the innate charisma that Jeff has in spite of being infinitely more talented as a worker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Lost? Prison Break? I have faith in you Cody.
> 
> Yeah Mcintyre used to be a hot topic back when I actually posted in the WWE section outside of this thread. Had many an argument with Pyro over Mcintyre being a very good worker and having to convince people not everyone had to have dynamite mic skills to get a consistent push on the card. Problem constantly remains the fact I'm too nice and towing the subjective line and being met with people trying to laugh off my reasoning without having the care or attention to properly respond.
> 
> Aye, who ever would have thought back in 2007 that Matt would be the brother who'd pissed away his chances in the big leagues and become an embarassment of himself. Just never had the innate charisma that Jeff has in spite of being infinitely more talented as a worker.


Prison Break. Hilarious. I gave that show what-for last night in the TV thread. I'll make sure my comparative essay goes the right amount of distance with more than enough substance to leave you fulfilled.

Somehow I knew Pyro would be thrown into the mix. I've completely removed his outlook on the biz from any conversation whatsoever. He's not a bad guy, but his logic is so warped. For as long as I've known him on here, I don't think we've agreed on much in the world of wrestling except for JBL being the man & Undertaker being the GOAT. I'm done trying to have to convince a lugnut or two in the WWE section. I post my thoughts and if anyone tries to call me out on it, I elaborate and that's usually that. I know what McIntyre is capable of. Oh, and I like how you bring up the whole "mic skills have to matter" thing too. It's funny when people use that and then put over someone like Kofi - WHO ISN'T EVEN GOOD ON THE MIC - and say he should be pushed b/c he's a fun wrestler to watch. Is that the WWE market? How did this happen? Opinion is everything. No doubt. But, sometimes you can't hide facts thanks to personal bias. Not liking a wrestler like Regal, Finlay, or Drew isn't the point. Knowing what they're capable of and why they get the praise they do is.

It shows you how unpredictable things can be. Almost makes WWE's staff look like they knew what they were doing when Jeff always got the higher level push over Matt. Maybe there were things we didn't know about. Like all Jeff had was weak will power. Matt had more built up angst. We'll never know it seems.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Speaking of Jeff......

*Jeff Hardy vs. Brock Lesnar, Backlash 2002* - Brock Lesnar squash matches sure are fun to watch. I'd give it around ***1/2 *but it's a lot of fun.

*The Minnesota Stretching Crew vs. Rico Constantino & The Prototype, OVW 2001* - Funny thing about this, it took place as a dark match before Raw. Interesting that WWE had BORK and Cena working dark matches back in 2001 while Steve Austin was still working Raw. It just made me think. Thank God when he got called up he became THE BEAST instead of this dorky guy he was playing in OVW. Brock gets the hot tag towards the end and the crowd responds to his athleticism, even back then. Decent stuff. *****

*Brock Lesnar vs. Rob Van Dam, KOTR Finals, KOTR 2002 - ****

*Brock Lesnar & Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam & Ric Flair, Raw 2002 - ***1/2* and possibly higher. Need to watch again.

:brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/matches-best-buy-wcw-nitro-vol2-dvd/34603/

Still not the Sting/Hart match i want lol (sure that is from '99)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Prison Break. Hilarious. I gave that show what-for last night in the TV thread. I'll make sure my comparative essay goes the right amount of distance with more than enough substance to leave you fulfilled.
> 
> Somehow I knew Pyro would be thrown into the mix. I've completely removed his outlook on the biz from any conversation whatsoever. He's not a bad guy, but his logic is so warped. For as long as I've known him on here, I don't think we've agreed on much in the world of wrestling except for JBL being the man & Undertaker being the GOAT. I'm done trying to have to convince a lugnut or two in the WWE section. I post my thoughts and if anyone tries to call me out on it, I elaborate and that's usually that. I know what McIntyre is capable of. Oh, and I like how you bring up the whole "mic skills have to matter" thing too. It's funny when people use that and then put over someone like Kofi - WHO ISN'T EVEN GOOD ON THE MIC - and say he should be pushed b/c he's a fun wrestler to watch. Is that the WWE market? How did this happen? Opinion is everything. No doubt. But, sometimes you can't hide facts thanks to personal bias. Not liking a wrestler like Regal, Finlay, or Drew isn't the point. Knowing what they're capable of and why they get the praise they do is.
> 
> It shows you how unpredictable things can be. Almost makes WWE's staff look like they knew what they were doing when Jeff always got the higher level push over Matt. Maybe there were things we didn't know about. Like all Jeff had was weak will power. Matt had more built up angst. We'll never know it seems.


Yup, aside from Pyro professing Benoit/Finlay to be one of the best matches he's ever seen I barely ever see eye to eye with him, though I've spoken to him in months due to me being occupied in select threads nowadays. Love that point about not necessarily agreeing with others over someone's talent, but being blind as to why they receive praise is negligent and curtails good discussion.

Ownage/Saint Dick made a great post last week in the Bryan overrated thread addressing the OPs point about him not being better than Angle. He made a 5 line post, basically overviewing what he thought Bryan did better in condensed and concise form and had some numpty knobhead ridicule it as bullshit when it was by far the most balanced and honest post in the thread in amongst a sea of bitching and incessent arguing without any substance. If I hadn't already exhausted myself on Angle discussions I'd have jumped straight in against KO Bossy or whatever his name was.

edit: was starting to forget people other than us two posted in here


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Lets bring it back to '94, shall we?

1994: HBK/Razor Ladder Match: WrestleMania 10 *****
1995: HBK/Razor Ladder Match: SummerSlam'95: ****3/4
1996: HBK/Mankind Mind Games: *****
1997: HBK/Undertaker Hell in a Cell: *****
2000: Triple H vs Cactus Jack Royal Rumble *****
2001: Austin vs The Rock WrestleMania 17 *****

2003 is easily Angle/Benoit to me. Haven't watched any of the matches I'd consider for 1998 and 1999 in along time, so I don't feel comfortable posting what I'd have for them. Perhaps I'll give the matches I consider the best for those years a watch later on this week. 

Anyways, this was fun. Fun seeing some of the differences people have for these years. Pretty much all of the matches we list are great matches. It's just a matter of personal preferences from there. Good stuff.

(P.S. 1994-1997 HBK owned.)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> edit: was starting to forget people other than us two posted in here


You two were in the middle of a deep and meaningful. It's good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yup, aside from Pyro professing Benoit/Finlay to be one of the best matches he's ever seen I barely ever see eye to eye with him, though I've spoken to him in months due to me being occupied in select threads nowadays. Love that point about not necessarily agreeing with others over someone's talent, but being blind as to why they receive praise is negligent and curtails good discussion.
> 
> Ownage/Saint Dick made a great post last week in the Bryan overrated thread addressing the OPs point about him not being better than Angle. He made a 5 line post, basically overviewing what he thought Bryan did better in condensed and concise form and had some numpty knobhead ridicule it as bullshit when it was by far the most balanced and honest post in the thread in amongst a sea of bitching and incessent arguing without any substance. If I hadn't already exhausted myself on Angle discussions I'd have jumped straight in against KO Bossy or whatever his name was.
> 
> edit: was starting to forget people other than us two posted in here


That's something that seems to get lost on people. Like when I come down on hard on a wrestler such as Kofi Kingston or Matt Morgan, I back it up. I'll give you as to WHY I think (if not know) they're bad or were bad in that particular match. There always has to be a reason there. Not simply "I didn't like it b/c I didn't like it." tripe. Or the worst of the bunch: using the promotions booking to dictate who's worthless or not. Much like the chuds who's apparently labeled Jack Swagger as the most pointless guy on the WWE roster. A comment I can't begin to wrap my brain around. So he's awful on the mic & jobbed last year. That makes him useless? Doesn't his new and apparent revival atm mean the company is trying to build him up again aka make him worth something? Scoffing it off b/c you're not a fan is pretty lousy considering the tirade against him.

I saw his first post in there and already agreed with him. It was funny. All he had to say was "He is better than Angle" and it worked. Then he proceeded to apparently back it up (I didn't see his post, but I have to know it was quality) only to have to obvious reply come back at him. KO Bossy. Yeah, that guy is horrible. He'll find any positive thing about Danielson and try to squash it for whatever reason. Even though he can't. Which makes him look very dense. Not to mention he made a post in the WCW thread today about how he couldn't ever find Mysterio a believable worker when not against Cruiserweights. What a thought process.

We're not the only ones in here? I'm gobsmacked by this tidbit of information. :hayley3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I see a few pages back we were taling about 2002 :mark:

Is there a better year for the WWE than 2002? Good God the talent pool back then was just awesome. That and they actually gave shit and put a lot of effort into the product. When I think best matches of 2002 I don't even think PPV matches! I think Smackdown! 

The only year that can rival Smackdown's awesomeness of 2002 is the awesomeness of Smackdown that 2009. It seems as if every month I just have to talk about SD 2002 and SD 2009 here but I can't freaking help it! I'm a sucker for those years. 

But, man, 2002 was just epic. Those Edge/Mysterio, Angle/Benoit and Los Guerrero matches were just amazing. I believe the 2/3 falls took place on SD? That match kicked so much ass. When last has WWE ever done a 2/3 falls tag match? And with teams/division that you cared about? What's even more interesting is that those were complete makeshift tag teams. What the hell did Edge and Mysterio have in common to be a tag team? They were just thrown together. But because of booking, they felt like a real tag team. Oh and Edge and Hogan :mark: Edge is one lucky son of a bitch for getting to team with Hulk freaking Hogan.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since Swagger is all Super American Man now and Del Rio has transformed into Mr. Mexico, anybody think that's going to be our Mania WHC match? Heel USA vs. Face Mexico lol. Swagger renamed his ankle lock the Patriot Act I read somewhere. 

Sorry, back to your deep and meaningful....


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I dig Swagger's new look. And FINALLY he's not coming out the ring jumping up and down like a goddamn retard. As for the ankle lock being called the Patriot Act....what.....the....fuck. Seriously, WWE. Why you gotta fuck things up?

I don't know how far he'll go now but hey at least they got me to care about the guy again.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> You two were in the middle of a deep and meaningful. It's good.


We'd be like Walter White and Jesse Pinkman if Cody fecking watched Breaking Bad. Guess that makes us Troy and Abed since we both watch Community. Or Liz Lemon and Jack Donaghy. Was there a point to this post? There may have been but I'm fucked if I remember what it was.



HayleySabin said:


> That's something that seems to get lost on people. Like when I come down on hard on a wrestler such as Kofi Kingston or Matt Morgan, I back it up. I'll give you as to WHY I think (if not know) they're bad or were bad in that particular match. There always has to be a reason there. Not simply "I didn't like it b/c I didn't like it." tripe. Or the worst of the bunch: using the promotions booking to dictate who's worthless or not. Much like the chuds who's apparently labeled Jack Swagger as the most pointless guy on the WWE roster. A comment I can't begin to wrap my brain around. So he's awful on the mic & jobbed last year. That makes him useless? Doesn't his new and apparent revival atm mean the company is trying to build him up again aka make him worth something? Scoffing it off b/c you're not a fan is pretty lousy considering the tirade against him.
> 
> I saw his first post in there and already agreed with him. It was funny. All he had to say was "He is better than Angle" and it worked. Then he proceeded to apparently back it up (I didn't see his post, but I have to know it was quality) only to have to obvious reply come back at him. KO Bossy. Yeah, that guy is horrible. He'll find any positive thing about Danielson and try to squash it for whatever reason. Even though he can't. Which makes him look very dense. Not to mention he made a post in the WCW thread today about how he couldn't ever find Mysterio a believable worker when not against Cruiserweights. What a thought process.
> 
> We're not the only ones in here? I'm gobsmacked by this tidbit of information. :hayley3


Yeah he made a great overview of Bryan as a face, heel, structuring his matches better, being a better seller, having better offence which he timed and implemented into the context of a match better, being more versatile in working opponents of varying size as well as brawls, title matches, veteran vs underdog etc. Course it was treated as blasphomy because it critiqued Angle despite Saint Dick's post being by far the more balanced and tame in relation to any negative outlook on Angle's style.

Yeah I gave up long ago trying to reason with some folk in that section. When people brought up Angle being an Olympic Gold Medal winner as if it had any relevance to him as a 'pro wrestling worker' as opposed to a natural wrestler I just focused all my efforts and thoughts into this thread, where even if I disagree with people I can at least do so in balanced and interesting discussion.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm all for the Swagger push for now but i'm pretty sure by the summer the guy will be jobbing to Santino/Brodus again.

I'm watching the main event from Vengeance 2007 right now, the one with Booker, Lashley, Cena, Orton & FOLEY? I <3 Foley but this was 2007 and he was in a WWE CHAMPIONSHIP match?! For the match itself it's a clusterfuck, a fun one but a clusterfuck nonetheless. They keep trying to do an epic Cena/Lashley staredown and the crowd just don't give a shit and why would they? :lol

Ahh it's just finished, Poor Foley taking the pinfall. 

***1/2* for me on first watch since it happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> We'd be like Walter White and Jesse Pinkman if Cody fecking watched Breaking Bad. Guess that makes us Troy and Abed since we both watch Community. Or Liz Lemon and Jack Donaghy. Was there a point to this post? There may have been but I'm fucked if I remember what it was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I sort of grasp the Walter & Pinkman relationship. The other two would be much more fitting. I guess I'll have to be Abed & Lemon in their respective roles. I'm peculiar & apparently more feminine than the bunch. I'll take it.

It's when there can't be the logical retort back, that's when you throw your hands up and just say you're done. Especially when there was no rebuttal back and your point is left standing high and mighty. I think anyone who scoffs off the post to take the time and elaborate one's thought process, is really admitting defeat right then and there. That or they can't believe their favorite wrestler is getting some negative feedback or not put over every other wrestler out there.

Oh I've been done. I occasionally get roped into a discussion in the TNA section and that never ends well for the one opposing me it seems. I wouldn't make the points I do if I didn't have a reason behind them. :lmao @ someone bringing up Kurt's gold medal as a frame of reference on his wrestling career. That sounds like something Taz would legit use to put over Kurt.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Well I sort of grasp the Walter & Pinkman relationship. The other two would be much more fitting. I guess I'll have to be Abed & Lemon in their respective roles. I'm peculiar & apparently more feminine than the bunch. I'll take it.
> 
> It's when there can't be the logical retort back, that's when you throw your hands up and just say you're done. Especially when there was no rebuttal back and your point is left standing high and mighty. I think anyone who scoffs off the post to take the time and elaborate one's thought process, is really admitting defeat right then and there. That or they can't believe their favorite wrestler is getting some negative feedback or not put over every other wrestler out there.
> 
> Oh I've been done. I occasionally get roped into a discussion in the TNA section and that never ends well for the one opposing me it seems. I wouldn't make the points I do if I didn't have a reason behind them. :lmao @ someone bringing up Kurt's gold medal as a frame of reference on his wrestling career. That sounds like something Taz would legit use to put over Kurt.


And I'm black as 3am, have a nerdy interest I try to hide with brash dialogue and confidence whilst also professing to always wear a suit after 6pm, on account of me not being a farmer.

Yeah I always think to myself, what's more laughable: someone's opinion or the person who finds that opinion laughable yet can't offer anything worthwhile to the contrary? If you call someone's opinion a load of shit and then prove yourself unable to offer anything better than 'a load of shit' then you're basically admitting you yourself can't even make a post that amounts to a load of shit.

It was ironically enough in that Bryan thread. Someone said something along the lines of 'come back to me when Bryan's won a gold medal'. As if that had any relevance to professional wrestling and the intagibles and characteristics that make a good/great worker. Oh lordy lordy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> And I'm black as 3am, have a nerdy interest I try to hide with brash dialogue and confidence whilst also professing to always wear a suit after 6pm, on account of me not being a farmer.
> 
> Yeah I always think to myself, what's more laughable: someone's opinion or the person who finds that opinion laughable yet can't offer anything worthwhile to the contrary? If you call someone's opinion a load of shit and then prove yourself unable to offer anything better than 'a load of shit' then you're basically admitting you yourself can't even make a post that amounts to a load of shit.
> 
> It was ironically enough in that Bryan thread. Someone said something along the lines of 'come back to me when Bryan's won a gold medal'. As if that had any relevance to professional wrestling and the intagibles and characteristics that make a good/great worker. Oh lordy lordy.


Ian Duncan isn't black though. :hmm:

That's my mindset. If I'm gonna take the time to call someone out on a point then I'm damn sure going to back it up. Not say "OH, NO THAT'S STUPID" or something moronic of the sort. Sometimes you get those or sometimes you get the DualShock type responses. Don't know which is worse.

It's comments like that which make the reputation of some sections so aberrant and filled with a stigma. Sheesh.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

You still believe McQueen's accusations? The man is not a reputable scholar and such poppycock and hogwash is nothing but mere slander.

Yup, people really ought to think more before they post around here. Luckily this thread seems to be the safe haven in terms of frank and honest discussion where thought and reasoning is the norm.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's almost too good to believe so I'll fight my natural urges and go with it. Do you wear a scarf while watching football and looking like you came from a game of Quidditch? 

Ah yes. The sanctity of this thread. Intelligent discussions on a daily basis and it hardly ever gets tampered with. I think it's safe. How? Not sure. I'll leave it be and let it continue to grow as one of the best kept secrets of WF.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll attempt TV matches:

2000 - The Big Show, X-Pac & Triple H Vs The Rock, Kane & Cactus Jack - WWF Raw 21/02 (I might be the only person to prefer this to the big 8 man tag)

2001 - The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit (TLC III) - WWF Smackdown 24/05

2002 - Eddie Guerrero Vs Rob Van Dam (Ladder) - WWE Raw 27/05

2003 - Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Iron Man) - WWE Smackdown 18/09

2004 - Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin Vs Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair - WWE Raw 12/04

2005 - Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Smackdown 23/06

2006 - Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - WWE Smackdown 13/01

2007 - Finlay Vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Smackdown 09/11

2008 - ???

2009 - Christian Vs Jack Swagger - ECW 24/02

2010 - Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 26/01

2011 - William Vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 06/11

2012 - Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 30/07


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I see a few pages back we were taling about 2002 :mark:
> 
> Is there a better year for the WWE than 2002? Good God the talent pool back then was just awesome. That and they actually gave shit and put a lot of effort into the product. When I think best matches of 2002 I don't even think PPV matches! I think Smackdown!
> 
> ...


The Smackdown Six were just the little piece in a sea of heavy gold. HBK's return, Elimination Chamber debut, BORKLASER debut, SummerSlam '02, the World Heavyweight Title's best run, Rock vs Hogan, one of the best RR Matches ever, consistent great TV matches in both Raw and SD, insane starpower, the 1st Draft Lottery, the 1st signs of Evolution... HOTDAMN.

Some peeps talk about 08 not having that much TV greatness - HBK/Jeff, Jericho/Jeff, HBK/Jericho LMS, and Taker/Kane Champion vs Champion were all pretty great. Oh, and JoMo/Bourne from ECW.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> It's almost too good to believe so I'll fight my natural urges and go with it. Do you wear a scarf while watching football and looking like you came from a game of Quidditch?
> 
> Ah yes. The sanctity of this thread. Intelligent discussions on a daily basis and it hardly ever gets tampered with. I think it's safe. How? Not sure. I'll leave it be and let it continue to grow as one of the best kept secrets of WF.


From time to time I used to don a scarf but no more. Jacket, Polo, Jeans and Trainers is my name of the game. 

Yup I can't explain how the thread manages to never attract the morons and window lickers who occupy a lot of the wrestling sections. Its the saving grace of this section anyhow, any place where I can freely discuss Memphis, Mid South, NWA and anything without so much as a warning is fine by me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Based on what I remember, Undertaker/Kane is likely the only thing close to a TV MOTY imo, and that's only about ***1/4 . I can only really remember PPV matches frmo that year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, the best TV matches (the ones I mentioned) had quality, but not exactly the memorable factor. The 'E was kind of reverse of what they were 4 years earlier in 2004 - they had very little amount of good in-ring stuff on the TV shows, and produced most of all great things on PPV.

In 04, that was the opposite: most of the consistently great in-ring stuff happened mostly on TV - well, not that they were doing MOTYC's every week, but you get what I mean. So much great TV matches that year: HBK/Benoit, HHH/Benoit Iron Man, HHH/Shelton, Evolution vs Benoit/HBK/Shelton/Foley, SD Rumble, Rey/Noble, Eddie/Show, Eddie/Rey, etc. The PPV's were far from great (except for WM20 and Backlash), but the TV quality was superb that year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

08 slowly killed my love of wrestling anyway, so me not remembering shit isn't surprising . God bless the 09 RR for bringing me back .


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Undertaker (c) vs Batista (NO DQ) from SD! 2008 was very good. ***3/4 for me.
Undertaker vs Big Show (Steel Cage) was awesome. ***3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for the No DQ, ***1/4 for the match the week before.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My favourite 2011 TV Match is Rey vs Cena for the WWE title as for 2012, definetely Punk vs Henry.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

What about the Taker/Big Show Cage match ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That was 08? Always thought it was 09. ***3/4 for it anyway.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> That was 08? Always thought it was 09. ***3/4 for it anyway.


Yup it was after the casket match they had at Survivor Series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Urgh, that casket match. What a horrible THING in the middle of their great series.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on Survivor Series 2005?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booker/Benoit - Boring
Trish/Melina - fine for a 6 minute diva match
HHH/Flair - ***1/2
Angle/Cena - Meh
Long/Bischoff - LOLDUD
Team Raw Vs Team Smackdown - **** awesomely fun stuff


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's fun to think that 05 had a pretty good collection of quality within the Big 4 PPV's: Royal Rumble had a great undercard and a great RR, WM21 was up until the Piper's Pit a top contender for GOAT WM ever, SSlam looked dope on paper and had some really good matches from top to bottom, and SS had a solid card with HHH/Flair and the Main Event being great. 06 was terrible for the Big 4, though.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Two Matches Revealed for WWE Best of In Your House DVD/Blu-Ray: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/two-matches-wwe-in-your-house-dvd/34661/


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Two Matches Revealed for WWE Best of In Your House DVD/Blu-Ray: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/two-matches-wwe-in-your-house-dvd/34661/


CAN'T WAIT.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Four Corners match = 

Even though I ordered every single In Your House when I was younger (2-hour PPVs were only $20), and still have them recorded on my vast collection of VHS tapes, I might pick this up just so I don't have to pop in a tape to search for one match, given that 95% of the IYH's were shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Two Matches Revealed for WWE Best of In Your House DVD/Blu-Ray: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/two-matches-wwe-in-your-house-dvd/34661/



*Four Corners Match for the Vacant WWE Championship*
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader vs. The Undertaker
In Your House: Final Four • 16th February, 1997

:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TV MOTY's since 02:

2002: Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy (Raw Ladder Match): ****
2003: Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (SD Ironman Match): ****3/4 (GOAT TV Match)
2004: Undertaker vs. John Cena (SD June): ****
2005: Shawn Michaels vs. Shelton Benjamin (Raw Gold Rush): ****1/2
2006: Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (Smackdown): ****1/4
2007: Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena (Raw in London): ****1/2
2008: Undertaker vs. Kane (Smackdown April): ***3/4
2009: Christian vs. Jack Swagger (ECW Jan or Feb or Mar): ****1/4
2010: Undertaker vs. CM Punk (SD September): ****
2011: CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler (Raw November): ****1/4
2012: CM Punk vs. Mark Henry (Raw 4/2/12): ****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

On that Best Of IYH DVD/BD:



> a chapter of Todd Pettengill outtakes!


Its probably Todd saying WWF a zillion times lol, we can fackin say it again, or saying WWF before he introduces anything.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Rawk said:


> TV MOTY's since 02:
> 
> 2002: Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy (Raw Ladder Match): ****
> 2003: Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (SD Ironman Match): ****3/4 (GOAT TV Match)
> ...


Solid list. I really want to go back and check some of these out. Can't believe 2008 didn't produce anything better. Mysterio/Morrison from SD might give Christian/Swagger a run for its money.

Speaking of LEGIT TV matches, finally watched Jericho/Punk from Raw. Really good match. It's amazing how consistent Jericho is despite not wrestling a lengthy regular schedule in years.

edit


> a chapter of Todd Pettengill outtakes!


YES


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*DUBYA SEE DUBYA TAG TEAM WRASSLIN'
*

*(Rise & Fall of WCW DVD)
*

*Wrestle War 2/25/90
*
Rock & Roll Express/Midnight Express *****1/4
*
*Great American Bash 7/7/90*

Midnight Express/Southern Boys *****1/2*

*SuperBrawl 5/19/91*

Sting & Luger/Steiners *****1/2*


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Just watched THAT Kane vs. Big Show mach that I've heard people talking about.






The randomness of it. Besides the ending I actually liked it though, however the crowd didn't seem too. Anyone know if there's a 'story' of some sort behind this? Was one of them injured or did they just decide to wrestle like that just to change it up a little.

Reminds me of when Kane did a rana and that time The Giant did kip up in WCW(I know he was smaller then but still). Basically I like big guys doing unexpected stuff like that. It...intrigues me. Not when it's overdone but like once in a blue moon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the sake of it:

Top 10 IYH matches:
1 - Taker/HBK Badd Blood
2 - HBK/Mankind Mind Games
3 - 10-Man Tag Canadian Stampede
4 - Bret/Bulldog Seasons Beatings
5 - HBK/Diesel Good Friends Bitter Enemies
6 - HBK/Jarrett The Lumberjacks
7 - Austin/Vega Beware Of Dog
8 - TAKA/Sasuke Canadian Stampede
9 - Austin/Bret/Taker/Vader Final Four
10 - Austin/Rock Backlash

Even though most of its events were pretty much one-match shows (with the exception of very few, particularly Canadian Stampede, St. Valentine's Day Massacre and Backlash), it did produce some of the GOAT WWF/E matches


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rickey said:


> Just watched THAT Kane vs. Big Show mach that I've heard people talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They were a team at the time, and Kane was going crazy every now and then leading up to the May 19th crap, and had attacked Show one of the times. So they had a match, but Show wanted to show Kane that he was still his friend so he thought wrestling like that would be fun and prove to Kane that he didn't want to hurt him and shit. Fun match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio
Ladder Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Extreme Rules*

Damn there were some really vicious spots in this thing. The arm breaker from Del Rio standing on the mini ladder to Christian standing on the big one was pretty sick. Del Rio’s focus on the arm in the latter part of the match is really good. I especially liked the cross arm breaker through the mini ladder. Speaking of the mini ladder, Christian just fucking it into Brodus Clay busted him the hell open. I don’t know if anybody else noticed that but there was a pool of blood on the outside from Clay’s head. Nasty shot. Del Rio gets backdropped from the apron into the ring and right onto a ladder. Both guys are taking their fair share of bumps in this thing. The worst of them all was Del Rio’s splash into the ladder that was sitting between the announce table and the ring apron. He landed really awkwardly too for that matter. The match really comes to life after that spot with Clay and Edge making appearances. Christian wins it with Edge there watching him in a truly special moment almost 20 years in the making. I’m no Christian fan but that was great to see. Brilliant match with some big bumps and awesome spots throughout. 

*****1/4 *

*Randy Orton vs. Christian
World Heavyweight Championship 
May 6th, Friday Night Smackdown*

This match will live in infamy for the utter rage that erupted over the result lol. Anyways, I thought the commentary was actually good for a change and only served to compliment the story of the feud to come. Christian, the unproven champion against the multiple time and legitimate champion, Randy Orton. This match was excellent. Fact paced, action packed, crisp and exciting. Can’t wait to watch their OTL encounter. 

******

*Randy Orton vs. Christian
World Heavyweight Championship
Over The Limit*

I loved this the last time I watched it and couldn’t wait to watch it again. It didn’t disappoint. What. A. Fucking. Match. I was completely glued to the screen. These guys just work and their chemistry has to be up there with the other great duos. I also think the storyline is really underrated. It’s fantastic and just fits with the dynamic of the matches so well. Once again this was fast paced and full of action. Never a dull moment. The crowd is hot and split which adds to the atmosphere as well. The RKO/Killswitch reversal into a back Boston crab I think it was, that was awesome and something new from Orton. Probably my favourite moment in the match was the RKO fake from Christian. That was brilliant. He lost the last match that way and faked Orton into thinking he was going do it again only to roll him up for a near fall. Just brilliant. Then there’s Orton’s moment of realization where the light bulb goes off in his head. How the hell can I win this thing? That’s right, the PUNT! He goes for the punt kick but second guesses himself. He wants to win the match but does he want to end Christian’s career? Enthralling character work and this is something that Orton excels at imo. His expressions and mannerisms tell the story. This also comes into play later in the feud when Christian turns heel. Orton goes for it again only to get nailed with a spear. I bought into it and thought it was over. Place is going nuts now and Orton finally wins it in the end with the RKO. Fucking fantastic. This has gone up since my last watch and I loved it so much I watched it again. Why don’t more people love this? Seriously. It’s awesome and I can’t rave about it enough. Just brilliant from start to finish. 

*****3/4 and my new MOTY so far.* 

*Randy Orton vs. Christian
World Heavyweight Championship
Capitol Punishment*

This match has an entirely different feel to it right from the get go. It isn’t a respectful battle between 2 champions trying to prove who is the best. This one is much more of a fight. They play off the concussion suffered by Orton beautifully and Orton’s selling is borderline fantastic. Let’s call it really good. Any time his head takes some impact, he’s selling it like a boss…until he starts pounding the mat waiting for the RKO lol but other than that, it’s good. Christian goes for the spear, Orton leap frogs and goes for the RKO, Christian blocks and hits the spear. Great near fall. Once again things ends with an RKO. This is probably the worst match in their series but in saying that, it’s still a good match and lays the foundation for the Summerslam No DQ match between them the next month. 

****1/2*

I'll be watching the Summerslam match possibly later on or if I don't get time tomorrow. Orton/Christian though :mark:. I think they get overlooked due to Punk/Cena in 2011 but this series needs more love if you ask me. Absolutely fantastic stuff here. Looking forward to their NO DQ bout.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Big Z said:


> They were a team at the time, and Kane was going crazy every now and then leading up to the May 19th crap, and had attacked Show one of the times. So they had a match, but Show wanted to show Kane that he was still his friend so he thought wrestling like that would be fun and prove to Kane that he didn't want to hurt him and shit. Fun match.


Oh okay, yeah that does make sense. JR was speaking about sportsmanship between them but I forgot that they were friends around this time before Kane started to freak out about May 19th. Thanks.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Christian/Orton program definitely gets a lot of love, though I'm only a fan of the Smackdown match and huge fan of OTL where I felt they had the best dynamic: Christian as the underdog babyface with Orton as the proverbial glass ceiling he has to beat to ascend up the ranks of WWE. Minute Christian turned I lost great interest. Didn't think Christian as the heel was nearly as engaging, sympathetic and prone to working smart spots (such as the RKO fakeout as a callback in the SD match) as he was as a babyface and thought both CP and MITB were far lesser bouts. MITB more so with it being more of an angle advancer to prolong the feud into Summerslam. Didn't like the DQ stip even if Christian trying to taunt Orton made sense: it just wasn't what I wanted to see. Summerslam I'm not a big fan of, suffers from some of the pitfalls of WWE gimmick matches these days with how it doesn't differentiate itself in terms of structure and presentation. Too many of the bumps felt elaborate and gunning for a grand reaction as opposed to conveying hate and selling the end of the feud. The finish was also one of those blatantly setup spots that made no logical sense other than for Orton to hit the RKO.

OTL match is brilliant though, even if I think Christian is the better guy by a fair bit in it. He drove the match with his vulnerability, desire to prove to himself and the world that he could beat Orton as well as him incorporating some very smart spots you associate with babyface Christian. Orton was very good and definitely proved this is where he can work best under the current Viper character (withholding on the punt nearly costing him was a very smart nearfall), but I think Christian's sympathy and character made an emotional attachment apparent which combined with the smart pacing, timing of the counters and way the nearfalls were built to created that atmosphere.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> *DUBYA SEE DUBYA TAG TEAM WRASSLIN'
> *
> 
> *(Rise & Fall of WCW DVD)
> ...


Good to see Rock n Roll Express/Midnight Express and Midnight Express/Southern Boys from WCW 1990 get some love. Check out Midnight Express/Fantastics from 4/26/88 as well. At this point would happily call it the best tag in US history.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...-the-fantast_sport?search_algo=2#.URKwCWc77BY (part 1) 
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mrqb_the-midnight-express-vs-the-fantast_sport#.URKwGWc77BY (part 2)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just seen Great American Bash 2005:

MNM-Heindrich/Animal- **
Christian/Booker T- **1/2
Benoit/O.Jordan- US Title- **3/4
Taker/Muhammed Hassan- **
Mexicools/BWO- DUD
Mysterio/E. Guerrero- ***
T.Wilson/Melina- DUD
Batista/JBL- **1/2

Thoughts: This show was really horrible, even Rey/Eddie wasn't that good, I gave the match a *** rating, because it was great to see a nice match after 3 bad ones. Batista/JBL wasnt that bad, only that the end was stupid, that's not really the best way to end a bad PPV


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Orton V Christian OTL ****1/4

Orton's and Christians best non gimmick match ever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, I really want to watch those Christian/Orton matches now. I think the only one I've seen is the No DQ match from Summerslam (??).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for Eddie/Rey. Not your traditional great wrestling match between them, but some EPIC storytelling and character work from Eddie. My personal favourite from their series.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Batista vs Eddie Guerrero No Mercy 2005*
First time seeing this match and I must say it was a lot of fun to watch. Match starts of with some basic chain grappling. Eddie gets frustrated as several attempts to escape a headlock by Batista proves null and after receiving a scoop slam off the rebound he quickly rolls to the outside. A frustrated Guerrero looks for help in the form of a steel chair but sets it back down after looking at it for some time. I don't know the storyline going into this match but the story of this match was basically Guerrero trying his best not to resort to underhanded tactics. After dropping the chair, Guerrero turns around to find Batista with his head sticking through the second rope. Batsita grabs Guerrero by the throat, raising him up on the apron but Guerrero is a desperate attempt to survive hot shots Batista. 

From here Guerrero begins to wear down the big man constantly going after the back using a various amount of submission holds including body scissors, a half boston crab and a camel clutch. Guerrero brings his special brand pf psychology to the match once again by removing the tag rope. Just like how he contemplated using the chair, Guerrero fixes his eyes on the rope for quite some time but eventually drops, resorting to a legal tactic- a basic drop kick to the head. 

Eddie attempts to get Batista into a Texas Cloverleaf but the size difference just won't allow Guerrero to get the big man on his stomach. Batista (who rarely is put in such a position) rolls Guerrero up with a small package but he kicks out. After getting to their feet, Batista reverses an irish whip sending Guerrero to the corner. However, Guerrero does an up and over and upon landing falls backwards knocking down the referee. Whether or not it was on purpose, we don't know. I'd like to think the momentum caused Guerrero to lose his balance and that's how he fell onto the ref 

Guerrero once again brings his deep level of psychology into the match. Having realized a downed official, Guerrero returns to his trusty sidekick- the steel chair. Just as he is about to his The Animal with it, for the second time, Eddie drops the chair. Whatever it is, Eddie just doesn't want to resort to illegal tactics. 

Batista begins to mount a comeback and just as he is about to put Guerrero away with the Batista Bomb, the bad back catches up with him. Guerrero hits the three amigos, climbs the turnbuckle and sets himself up for the frog splash. Eddie, realizing Batista wasn't completely out, rolls through the frog splash and runs straight into a spinbuster. Batista pinning Guerrero to retain the title.

★★★3/4

I had this match at 4 stars up until the end. I don't know. It just seem to come out of nowhere and didn't feel like the big pay off such a match truly deserved. Still a great match though even with the out fo nowhere finish.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I didn't know they had a match at MITB as well. Whoops. Guess I'm going to have to go and find that now since I don't have it in hard copy. Although the fact that I completely forgot about it doesn't say much. I'll tell you though, that Randy Orton compared to the Randy Orton we have now are two different people. That Orton cared. This Orton clearly doesn't. As a mark for the guy, it's sad to see. I really hope something lights a fire under his ass this year and gets him back into form or at least trying again. I guess this is the result of having a career the likes of his before you hit 35. He has nothing left to achieve.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I didn't know they had a match at MITB as well. Whoops. Guess I'm going to have to go and find that now since I don't have it in hard copy. Although the fact that I completely forgot about it doesn't say much. I'll tell you though, that Randy Orton compared to the Randy Orton we have now are two different people. That Orton cared. This Orton clearly doesn't. As a mark for the guy, it's sad to see. I really hope something lights a fire under his ass this year and gets him back into form or at least trying again. I guess this is the result of having a career the likes of his before you hit 35. He has nothing left to achieve.


Its the least of their matches. Doesn't get an extended amount of time and is more of an angle advancer. Think Jericho/Punk WM 28 in the opening with Jericho goading Punk into a potential DQ and make it 15 minutes instead of 5 and you have a rough illustration.

Eh, as I said I found the only strong matches to be when Christian was the face. Minute he turned I just think the pairing lost a lot of strengths Christian brings as a babyface and the matches lacked that spark, build and compelling work that made the Smackdown and moreso OTL encounters so special and engrossing. Orton's Viper character in part is the problem. It forces him to be more languid and monotonous in terms of his ring approach and methodical work and it just sucks any bit of tension, passion or excitement out of a match. Admittedly he does look far more blatantly casual these days, probably in no small part because of the suspensions and position he finds himself in on the card. 

Doesn't help the guy's body is brittle with all the nagging injuries so the chances of him breaking away from the methodical style which is likely done to preserve his body isn't happening anytime soon. I don't even think Orton going heel drastically fixes the problem. He's better by default as the heel since he isn't a good enough babyface worker to emote well enough to bring a crowd into a match and his comebacks lack the flair and fire that is needed in a babyface comeback. That being said, 2009 Orton outside of the odd match and performance was a far cry from 2004-06 heel Orton in terms of interesting and engaging control segments.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's also sad for me to look at Orton. Heck it was just 2 years ago I was marking out for the guy. Now, I don't know. Like everyone, I loved his run as the legend killer but I'm probably in the minority here when i say that I also enjoyed his 2010 babyface run. The ovations Orton used to get back in 2010. And of course, like I mentioned, his 2011 run was also good with his series of matches with Christian.

But now, he just doesn't care. You can see it. The way he walks, talks, wrestles. Everything about orton just screams "I really don't wanna be here right now" It doesn't help that one week we get Orton/Barrett and the following Orton/Cesaro. 

It goes like this:

RAW week 1: Orton vs Barrett
SD Week 1: Orton vs Barrett
RAW Week 2: Orton vs Cesaro
SD Week 2: Orton vs Cesaro
RAW Week 3: Orton vs Barrett
SD Week 3: Orton vs Barrett
RAW Week 4: Orton vs Cesaro
SD Week 4: Orton vs Cesaro

And there's one month of booking Orton right there. You can tell in his matches that he's just going through the motions and once you've seen one Orton match, you've seen them all at this point. But like I also mentioned, when you get Orton vs Barrett twice a week, every other week it can only be so interesting.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I just realized that WWE uploaded the full match (not really full) of Jericho/Punk from Monday. That's awesome, I wish they'd upload full segments/promos/matches of RAW all the time but sadly I understand. It must be a bitch to upload short versions of it anyway, especially when you try to upload most of that during the ending of the show or during the show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Orton V Christian OTL ****1/4
> 
> Orton's and Christians best non gimmick match ever.


Can you keep posting over and over again, just so i can see Lesnar destroying Miz lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton's Best Non Gimmick Match - Vs Benoit SD 13/01/06 - ****1/2
Christian's Best Non Gimmick Match - Vs Jack Swagger ECW 24/02/2009 - ****1/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Mysterio/Guerrero GAB 2005 proves why the amount of moves and holds don't mean shit in pro wrestling.

Guerrero played a true heel in that match. I love how he was getting some cheers at the beginning but the from the moment he started toying with Dominic, everyone started to hate him. Well I know I did. Man, Eddie was such a dick in that match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Its the least of their matches. Doesn't get an extended amount of time and is more of an angle advancer. Think Jericho/Punk WM 28 in the opening with Jericho goading Punk into a potential DQ and make it 15 minutes instead of 5 and you have a rough illustration.
> 
> Eh, as I said I found the only strong matches to be when Christian was the face. Minute he turned I just think the pairing lost a lot of strengths Christian brings as a babyface and the matches lacked that spark, build and compelling work that made the Smackdown and moreso OTL encounters so special and engrossing. Orton's Viper character in part is the problem. It forces him to be more languid and monotonous in terms of his ring approach and methodical work and it just sucks any bit of tension, passion or excitement out of a match. Admittedly he does look far more blatantly casual these days, probably in no small part because of the suspensions and position he finds himself in on the card.
> 
> Doesn't help the guy's body is brittle with all the nagging injuries so the chances of him breaking away from the methodical style which is likely done to preserve his body isn't happening anytime soon. I don't even think Orton going heel drastically fixes the problem. He's better by default as the heel since he isn't a good enough babyface worker to emote well enough to bring a crowd into a match and his comebacks lack the flair and fire that is needed in a babyface comeback. That being said, 2009 Orton outside of the odd match and performance was a far cry from 2004-06 heel Orton in terms of interesting and engaging control segments.


I like Orton's methodical style. I loved him as the Legend Killer but I'm probably one of the few who liked him just as much as The Viper. But it doesn't work if he's face. That's why I think a heel turn will sort of help fix some problems at least. As far as the Christian matches go, agreed that they take a hit once Christian turns. That much was obvious from the drop in quality between OTL and CP. I loved the story of the SD and OTL matches though, just loved them. One of the rare instances where DAT MANAGING MANAGER OF SMACKRAW BOOKAH TEE is bearable as a commentator. Aside from the ring action itself, I give kudos to the commentary team for adding that little extra kick. They were great. I can remember really liking the Summerslam match though. We'll see whenever I get around to watching it.

And since people are talking about it, I'd say OTL is both Orton and Christian's best singles non-gimmick match. Actually, I can't think of a better match for either of them tbh. I'm also probably the only person who has this match rated so highly. I just loved it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Orton's best non gimmick match is vs Mysterio, Smackdown 4/7/06. Coincidentally its also his best ever match imo.

Cal is spot on with Christian though. Swagger/Christian 2/24/09 will forever be the mantle for which all Christian babyface peformances will be measured against. Such brilliant storytelling of the veteran vs rookie dynamic, terrific selling by Christian throughout and into his comeback, Swagger using his agility smartly to counteract Christian's intelligence, the way in which both men use their respective strengths to constantly seize momentum and how the control segment and Christian injury plays into the opportunistic finish. Its just flawless.

Agreed on Eddie vs Mysterio GAB being a great match and Eddie performance, second best in their feud behind 6/23/05. Eddie is a remarkably sleazy bastard and plays a true despicable heel and its just a masterclass in character work and how to add so many unique touches into his work in playing off the crowd and building the match around Rey's comeback. I say it everyime the match gets brought up, but Eddie getting crotched and then readjusting his tights to loosen his crotch a bit is just the sort of intricate and attention to detail visual only Eddie could think to add to the match.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I loved Orton's match with Taker at WM 21. I rate that a 3 and a half or maybe 4 stars. I love the chokeslam into the RKO counter, probably the best moment in the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

05 Heel Eddie Vs Joseph Park. I think I just found another dream match that will never happen .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I like Orton's methodical style. I loved him as the Legend Killer but I'm probably one of the few who liked him just as much as The Viper. But it doesn't work if he's face. That's why I think a heel turn will sort of help fix some problems at least. As far as the Christian matches go, agreed that they take a hit once Christian turns. That much was obvious from the drop in quality between OTL and CP. I loved the story of the SD and OTL matches though, just loved them. One of the rare instances where DAT MANAGING MANAGER OF SMACKRAW BOOKAH TEE is bearable as a commentator. Aside from the ring action itself, I give kudos to the commentary team for adding that little extra kick. They were great. I can remember really liking the Summerslam match though. We'll see whenever I get around to watching it.


Eh, I like a slower and more basic style generally. But I just found there to be a disconnection between Orton's control segments in 04-06 and 09. As the Legend Killer he'd work basic holds but he'd constantly crank on the hold and try to make it 'more than a hold'. In the Mysterio Smackdown match he works the headlock to maintain position and control but between the way he adjusts his technique and stance combined with Mysterio constantly looking for an escape the hold becomes an intrigue in Rey's struggle and how he can escape and regain the momentum. Orton in that time would also pull hair, blatantly cheat with the referee distracted, use the ropes for leverage, apply a cheap tactic such as eye raking to halt a comeback etc. He wrestled like a crafty and irritating heel that felt like a territories esque performer. 

As the Viper, I just never felt the methodical style was implemented or performed as well aside from a couple of instances, namely the I Quit match vs Cena which is Orton's magnus opus in terms of methodical character work. Whether he's to blame or his opponents just didn't do enough of a good job working in the hold to try and create struggle and a mini story I can't say, but it definitely felt like he used them more as basic restholds which didn't advance the story as opposed to his younger days, where he was constantly building a theme and story around the basic holds in a way that made them matter in the greater context. That's about as good as I can explain my reasoning tbh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed w/ *Starbuck*. Over The Limit is probably Christian and Randy's best non gimmick match ever if I do say so myself, although I'm very high on Orton's Wrestlemania XXI match with Taker. Orton hasn't really had that many OMFGEPICZ!*! matches so to speak, but when the wheels are rolling he's one consistent motherfucker. I can remember when in 2011 I would look forward to catching his matches but as 2012 rolled around became completely disjointed and disinterested in what he was doing because it was lacking quality.

I'm a fan of all of the Christian/Orton matches TBH, from the first SD match to the last SD CAGE match I'd have them all at atleast **** 1/2*, and probably the best pure SERIES of 2011 as Punk/Cena was more sporadic and all over the place at times despite having better matches.

When it comes to Christian it's pretty sad to say this , but I missed alot of what would be considered his "peak" in 2009/2010 due to my complete exile from the WWE product because of my complete RAGE at where the product was (Trips losing the belt to JEFF HARDY, PUNK being pushed to the wayside) and only caught the bigger shows such as Mania XXV and XXVI, meaning I missed a ton of his ECW run.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The only thing 2012 Randy Orton I enjoyed was his match with Kane at Extreme Rules. Everything else, meh.

Orton just accomplished so much at a young age that he's actually a veteran despite being only 32 years old. Given his tenure with the company he is a that point where he should be bumped back down to midcard/upper midcard at put over the new guys. But at 32? Jesus, being the youngest World Heavyweight Champion is both a blessing and a curse.

But the way WWE's been booking, it doesn't even feel like Orton is in a position to put over anymore. It seems as if he's the one who needs to be put over. Randy Orton is a strange case alright. Has there ever been anyone in the history of WWE who has fallen as far as him? 7 years ago (God when you say it like that) the guy was at his peak. But he was 26 back then. You would at least think 32 would be his peak but damn, I guess it was 26.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Based on what I remember, Undertaker/Kane is likely the only thing close to a TV MOTY imo, and that's only about ***1/4 . I can only really remember PPV matches frmo that year.


You should do a 2008 ECW thing like you did with 06 SD and Raw. I haven't got TONS of it done myself, but it's a show with Matt Hardy, Finlay, Mark Henry, Evan Bourne consistently wrestling week to week. And hey...you might like a Chavo v CM Punk or Kane or Bourne match.

Man fuck the world Chavo had a really good 2008.




(I'm probably not making him want to watch it very much :side





That Taker/Kane match is awesome, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still really like Orton's PPV matches and that's about it. From a week to week TV standpoint he's been fucking horrendous in terms of establishing his character and putting off even AVERAGE matches. Feels like he should be a "healthy scratch" sometimes and just left off of the program altogether, and with Sheamus not in the chamber it leads me to believe that Orton's not going over, leading Orton to ANOTHER lower card Mania match, best case scenario being a match with Sheamus and the worst case scenario being..... BAD.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Orton's biggest match ever completely BOMBED in the main event of Wrestlemania ? Hmmmm...... I doubt Trips would take the blame for that one backstage seeing how one day he's gonna eventually OWNDAFUCKIN'PLACE .

Orton needs to be taken off TV and given the Big Show treatment ; send him down to NXT or some shit to make him realize he isn't so damn big after all. It worked for Show, and if it wouldn't work for Orton than he can fuck off to TNA because by then he wouldn't have much credibility to give them a boost either.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Man fuck the world Chavo had a really good 2008.
> 
> (I'm probably not making him want to watch it very much :side


Poor Yeah1993, I know you're trying to summon vivalabrave back to this place. But there are far better ways  .

On topic, isn't there a Kane vs Chavo match that usually gets brought up as quite good? Backlash maybe?

On topic 2: was that Koslov/Festus sub 5 minute Smackdown encounter from 2008? If so i'mma go ahead and give that my TV MOTY for 08. Wrestling needs more big guys beating the everloving dogpiss out of each other.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There's a Orton vs Matt Hardy match from 2008 that's also worth checking out imo. It was the same night as Flair's retirement send off. Oh and wasn't HBK/Jeff Hardy from '08 as well? I've never seen the match but it seems to get a lot of positive feedback.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> You should do a 2008 ECW thing like you did with 06 SD and Raw. I haven't got TONS of it done myself, but it's a show with Matt Hardy, Finlay, Mark Henry, Evan Bourne consistently wrestling week to week. And hey...you might like a Chavo v CM Punk or Kane or Bourne match.
> 
> Man fuck the world Chavo had a really good 2008.
> 
> ...


08 ECW is something I'd like to go through one day, mainly for HENRY, then guys like Hardy and Finlay (how long was he on ECW for that year? I seem to remember him being moved to Raw or SD? Or was that 09?). Chavo can fuck off though.

EDIT: Koslov/Festus = :mark:

Undertaker/Festus happened around the time of Undertaker/Kane too now I think about it. That's pretty fucking :mark: as well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Koslov/Festus gets a marking out smilie? Well then, guess I'll have to look for that one. I must say, I'm intrigued.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

sharkboy22 said:


> Koslov/Festus gets a marking out smilie? Well then, guess I'll have to look for that one. I must say, I'm intrigued.


Its pretty much just like 3 minutes of them beating the fuck out of each other. If you're into that kind of thing then watch it, if not probably best not to bother .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll ask this in here since I don't wanna hear some of the bullshit fucking answers that I'd hear in the general forum ; *What is your biggest all time dream match ?*

For me, look no further than "The Beast" Brock Lesnar vs "The Hitman" Bret Hart. When you look at the way these two have worked throughout their respective careers and when they were at their finest, for Lesnar you have to look no further than his matches against smaller but more technical guys such as Eddie and Benoit. What made those matches so fascinating is the idea that even though Brock had the power advantage, Eddie and Benoit were REALLY in trouble due to Brock being FASTER than them as well, having to resort to intelligence to try and beat him.

Bret worked wonders with big guys, look no further than his matches against Kevin Nash in 1994 and 1995. He could sell a beating from Nash so well that it made his ultimate babyface comeback look so much more effective, and the only person who could probably match Bret with this back then was Shawn. How Bret worked with Taker in 97 could be another hint at how the match would go as well ; BROCK destroys Bret but Bret uses his intelligence to get back into this thing. FUCK how I wish this match could happen.

REALISTICALLY Brock vs Shawn would be just as awesome as well, and is probably my number one dream match that can still happen even though Shawn is retired. If they wrestled I truly feel it would be GOAT worthy, no joke. Punk-Lesnar is a personal favorite of mine that I NEED to see happen at some point though. Make Punk a face/tweener for a little bit just so this can happen WWE FFS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Really enjoyed reading the little discussion between HayleySabin and Segunda/WOOLCOCK earlier in the thread. Speaking of Pyro, I wonder what it would be like if he came to this thread. I've gone through discussions about Orton with him numerous times and there's no convincing this guy.



HayleySabin said:


> That's where his work is at for me right now. He's just not putting anything out there for me to enjoy or find as "special". I can't believe I've seen a better Sin Cara match from this year than something from Orton. To the credit, it was a tag match and it was mostly Mysterio doing the work for his team vs Hell No, but he was out there. Certainly working for Wade EVERY FRIGGIN WEEK sucks, but until I see otherwise he's going to be at the bottom of the barrel for me. I'm very over the guy and if the marking comes back I'll be surprised, quite frankly. Happy, i'm sure. But, surprised nonetheless.
> 
> Fair enough, I did what you did and relied off of one specific post. I thought I saw you say you didn't think Punk's work vs Danielson @ Over The Limit was "nothing special" either, so I used that to stomach up my comment. I still don't get the hate on the MITB match. I friggin love the hell out of it. But, we both know that. You actually liked his match vs Rock? Well, that's a new one. I even gave Punk grief for not doing anything noteworthy during that mess, haha.
> 
> Oh good grief @ posting The Undertaker vs Triple H from KOTR. That match SUCKS. Why are their matches so hit and miss?


I'll like to be positive and think that he will bounce back to the top soon. If nothing happens this year, then I'll join you in the "hopeless" team, though.

And I gotta be honest with you, when I rewatched Bryan/Punk OTL, I was pretty much in nitpick mode and just wanted to pick apart every bit of the match and rip it to shreds just because of all the hyperbole love it was getting. I should watch it again at some point and just kick back rather than over-analyze stupid shit. As for MITB, I think we've been through this before and I have explained numerous times why I can't stand it. It may not be as bad as I put it, though. Another match I need to go through. And yeah, I thought Punk/Rock was pretty good and I even gave Punk credit for doing his part.

I only posted Taker/Trips KOTR just so I can make one of my lame jokes regarding that match by linking the moment when The Rock's music hits. :lol Don't know why, but the random run-ins during the Attitude Era/2002 years of WWE are always some type of joke to me and crack me up. This was one example of it and Taker/Jericho running in to the Backlash 02 match between HHH/Hogan is another.



KingOfKings said:


> DEM JEANS >>>>>> Shit Brown Survivor Series 2002 HBK Tights. WHY DID HE WEAR THOSE ?!?!?! I know there's a story behind that on his DVD but I honestly forget what it is.


SHIT BROWN TIGHTS. :lmao 



KingOfKings said:


> Okay so, since these things fluctuate alot from month to month, your current WWE MOTY for every year since the beginning of the WWE Era ? Essentially what I'm asking for is every *MOTY from 2002-2012*


2002: Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker, No Mercy - ★★★★½
2003: Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit, Royal Rumble - ★★★★★
2004: Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H, Wrestlemania XX - ★★★★★
2005: Batista vs Triple H, Vengeance - ★★★★¾
2006: Kurt Angle vs Undertaker, No Way Out - ★★★★★
2007: Undertaker vs Batista, Wrestlemania 23 - ★★★★½
2008: No idea yet, need to watch the whole year.
2009: Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker, Wrestlemania XXV - ★★★★★
2010: Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker, Wrestlemania XXVI - ★★★★½
2011: John Cena vs CM Punk, Money in the Bank - ★★★★½ (shout-out to Christian/Orton from OTL)
2012: Brock Lesnar vs John Cena, ★★★★½ - Extreme Rules

Need to watch 2008, 09 and 10 to get familiar with more of the stuff. There's definitely lots of good.

BIGGEST DREAM MATCH: Benoit vs Undertaker @ WRESTLEMANIA. Said it many times! Too bad it can only happen at video games now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah its sub 5 minutes of stiff shots and just a great big man war with them beating the crap out of each other. Nothing mind blowing or sensational, but just a real simple, balls to the wall sprint with some great offence from both and this mini Clash of the Titans feel to the entire thing.

Cal I know Finlay was in ECW into 2009 as he was working Kidd in one pretty good match. Can't recall exactly if he moved between shows though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

lol Kozlov/Festus was a fun 3 minutes. But after watching the match and seeing Jesse, I know I can't be the only who misses Slam Master J right? Am I right? Guys? Ok, it's just me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm just muddled, he was on SD in 07, then moved to ECW in 08 I think, and then he moved back to SD/Raw later on, maybe just when ECW stopped, maybe before.

Downloaded a couple of ECW 09 shows in HD the other day. Christian's return show (and his first match with Swagger on there which is often forgotten), and the 24/02 show :mark:. There's a full torrent for ECW 09 in HD, and if I had the hard drive space I'd fucking get it lol. I'll have to look up 08 ECW though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Finlay didn't start the year out on ECW in 2008. He was moved there as Benoit's replacement of what they wanted a "grizzled veteran to work with the newer guys" to be (apparently...I heard this when it happened). I THINK he shifted over following the JBL feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, can't seem to find ECW 08 to download. Raw, SD, Impact, ROH, PPV's... can get all of those for 08 but not ECW lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steel Cage Match*
Ultimate Warrior vs. ‘Macho King’ Randy Savage
Madison Square Garden 21st January, 1991

Savage is great in this as always, brilliant selling from the Macho King, excellent offence too. Still kinda hate the way you can pin your opponont in the cage lol, Hebner keeps having to run in the cage lol 

Brotherly Love is fucking annoying as ever on commentary though, but hey you see Sherri's backside for most of the match 

Best Savage matches?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

WWE just uploaded Punk vs. Jericho from RAW in it's entirety. Including commercial breaks. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:mark:

I don't know about a Savage LIST per se, but the guy's in my top 5 ever and I can tell you this ; an underrated Savage match would definitely have to be his Falls Count Anywhere match against Crush @ Wrestlemania X. It's not for some people but I felt it was intense for it's time and included some excellent booking. The fact that we got Bret/Yoko twice at Mania when we could have had Bret/Savage still pisses me off to this day. Savage's last WWF run was awesome though, loved his YOKO match on RAW as well.

His early WCW matches against Flair and eventually DDP were awesome, loved every second of the DDP feud. I'm currently watching every single Wrestlemania back to back and I'll say this for sure ; before Shawn and Taker broke out, Savage WAS Mr. Wrestlemania for sure. vs Steamboat, vs Hogan (what a fucking carry job), vs WARRIOR, and vs FLAIR are all epic matches, with what I believe his personal best being the Wrestlemania VIII match against Flair. Guy is legit one of the greatest all around talents in history next to the likes of Flair, Funk, and Foley.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

So at around 6:54, that's when some fans were chanting "overrated." That's why Punk replied to the This is Awesome chants with "Oh, first it was overrated? Sit down marks!" It all makes sense now. Dat Punk.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Yeah. Always butthurt is Punker.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I'll ask this in here since I don't wanna hear some of the bullshit fucking answers that I'd hear in the general forum ; *What is your biggest all time dream match ?*
> 
> For me, look no further than "The Beast" Brock Lesnar vs "The Hitman" Bret Hart. When you look at the way these two have worked throughout their respective careers and when they were at their finest, for Lesnar you have to look no further than his matches against smaller but more technical guys such as Eddie and Benoit. What made those matches so fascinating is the idea that even though Brock had the power advantage, Eddie and Benoit were REALLY in trouble due to Brock being FASTER than them as well, having to resort to intelligence to try and beat him.
> 
> ...


Hey man, I know you love Punk. One of my dream matches has been 97-98 version of HBK vs SES CM Punk. Think about how great that feud would be. There's alot there for Punk to pick on in his promos. It would be fantastic. The matches, ha, would obviously be ridiculous.

For the past few years, I've wanted to see HBK/Punk, HBK/Bryan (student/teacher story there, obviously), and HBK/Lesnar. Obviously another big one that ALOT of people point out is HBK/Rock. But if it's this current version of The Rock, while I would still be pumped, I'd much rather the 98-03 Rock. HBK/Steamboat, too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

It may not be my "ultimate" dream match, and I'd have to think about that, but a match I was always interested in seeing was Undertaker vs. Goldberg at Wrestlemania.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Some random ratings. 

HBK/Taker - Bad Blood '97 - *****
HBK/Taker - RR '98 - ****
HBK/Taker - WM 25 - ****1/2
HBK/Taker - WM 26 - *****

Greatest feud of all time, imo.

Punk/Jericho - WM 28 - ****1/2
Punk/Jericho - ER '12 - ****
Punk/Jericho - Raw '13 - ***3/4

Punk/Henry - 4/2/12 - ****
Punk/Henry - 4/16/12 - ***3/4

Benjamin/HBK - Raw '05 - ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Taker - Ground Zero '97 - ****
HBK/Taker - Bad Blood '97 - ***** GOAT
HBK/Taker - RR '98 - ****
HBK/Taker - WM 25 - *****
HBK/Taker - WM 26 - *****


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

At present time, ultimate dream match would arguably be Lawler vs Sangre Chicana. Two of the greatest brawlers, both on offence, selling, building drama, structuring the match, taking violent and dangerous bumps at just the right time to accentuate the drama and physicality to sell the match and two infinitely charismatic men who excel as the face or rudo. Can't decide whether I'd want scummy, sleazy Chicana invading Memphis and being ran out of town by Lawler, or prick Lawler entering Monterrey and being faced with having to fight with heroic hobo Chicana or being stabbed if he dares go near the rioting crowd.

Failing that, Terry Funk vs Eddie Guerrero. Can't decide whether I'd want Eddie to be in his 2005 character and have Funk play the heroic, valiant babyface or have Funk be the batshit insane shoe throwing maniac who dear Eddie has to overcome.

Vader vs Mysterio also ranks pretty high. Namely to see Rey bump for Vader and how well they could build a believeable and heroic Mysterio comeback before Vader swats him away for good.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Vader/Mysterio makes me think of how awesome Brock/Mysterio could be.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Dream Matches:

5. Daniel Bryan Vs Chris Benoit - Potential for one hell of a straight up wrestling matches with oodles of storytelling and shit to make me :mark:. Could make Punk/Bryan OTL (****3/4 2012 MOTY) look like shit too. That's how awesome the potential of this match had.

4. The Undertaker Vs Tenryu - 2009-Current Undertaker (I know, sounds weird, but his older, more human and somewhat "broken down" state is perfect for this match) Vs Current Tenryu. Grumpy old Japanese fuck Vs Dead and slightly grumpy old Texan fuck. Could you imagine the reaction from 'Taker if Tenryu just nonchalantly kicked him right in the face? :mark:

3. William Regal Vs Shawn Michaels - 1993 Heel Regal Vs 2002-2009 Babyface HBK. Would be a modern Regal/Steamboat. :mark:

2. Vader Vs Rey Mysterio - 04/05 Babyface Mysterio Vs 92/93 Heel Vader. God I never would have even thought of this had WOOLCOCK not mentioned it. :mark:

1. The Undertaker Vs Eddie Guerrero - Kinda torn on how I'd want this to happen. 04 Babyface Eddie Vs 02 Big Evil Undertaker could be awesome for the face/heel dynamic. Eddie as a heel imo wouldn't really work against Undertaker. 04 Babyface Eddie Vs 07 Babyface Undertaker in a big face vs face "epic" showdown at WM would probably be the other option.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Vader/Mysterio makes me think of how awesome Brock/Mysterio could be.


I do love the 03 Lesnar/Mysterio match from Smackdown. Brock's a freak with some of the 100mph bumps he takes missing Mysterio and the cat and mouse dynamic is executed brilliantly. Lesnar swatting Mysterio is as violent and magical as you'd expect from 2003 Mysterio and his willingess to bump like a man who doesn't fear late year disability.

Lesnar/Bryan is my current hope with Lesnar working more dates. Just do a short program on TV with segments before one match. 10-14 minutes, Bryan ducking and taking shots, Lesnar isolation and control, Bryan bumps big, build and tease a comeback, have Bryan get strong nearfalls off of countering the Kimura/F-5 and then have Lesnar maul him and win via ref stoppage/Brock Lock with Bryan not giving up. Makes Lesnar look like a monster, Bryan looks a million bucks for taking this monster to the limit and with the right booking they could elevate him up the card over the course of a few months.

Oh fuck Cal has me thinking of Tenryu vs US opponents now. Probably need to think of one of the more sympathetic babyfaces for grumpy Tenryu to mercilessly massacre. Tenryu mid 90s when he was vicious yet just beginning to become the grumpy veteran vs peak Ricky Morton sounds exotic.

Oh shit, Takayama vs Mysterio. How the fuck did that not even register? 2005 Mysterio vs 2002-04 Takayama, it would be beautiful. If you're a masochist of course.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

96/97 HBK vs Bryan would probably be mine. Bryan/BROCK is a close second.

I was at that 03 SD for the Rey/Lesnar match (believe it was in San Diego). He was granted a title shot for being the hometown hero. I've been meaning to check that out again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Throw in Tenryu Vs Mysterio too. Tenryu Vs Regal/Benoit/Finlay for viciousness. Fuck, Tenryu Vs like, 99% of US wrestlers would be amazing. TENRYU :mark:

I wanna go back and watch some Lesnar TV matches from 02/03. *grabs 02/03 SD discs*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I honestly can't decide between 97/98 drugged out HBK vs Straight Edge Society Punk (I know both are heels, but I don't give a fuck, it makes too much fucking sense) and HBK/Bryan with the teacher/student dynamic. I guess I go with the former (drugged out HBK/SES Punk). Those promos would be fucking gold.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wish HBK would've come out of retirement during last year's BROCK/HHH storyline to take on Lesnar. That would be another one I'd love to see.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

01 Heel Austin vs. 09 FIP Christian would be all sorts of goodness, IMO.
Drew McIntyre vs. 03 Rey Mysterio
Brock vs. Sydal in a six minute extended squash, with Bourne getting glimmers of offense but nothing substantial, could be fun.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Throw in Tenryu Vs Mysterio too. Tenryu Vs Regal/Benoit/Finlay for viciousness. Fuck, Tenryu Vs like, 99% of US wrestlers would be amazing. TENRYU :mark:
> 
> I wanna go back and watch some Lesnar TV matches from 02/03. *grabs 02/03 SD discs*


Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Tajiri
Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Finlay
Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Rey Mysterio

Shinya Hashimoto vs Jerry Lawler
Shinya Hashimoto vs Eddie Guerrero
Shinya Hashimoto vs Bryan Danielson
Shinya Hashimoto vs Brian Pillman
Shinya Hashimoto vs Dustin Rhodes

Genichiro Tenryu vs Terry Funk
Genichiro Tenryu vs Jerry Lawler
Genichiro Tenryu vs Barry Windham

Stan Hansen vs John Cena
Stan Hansen vs Rey Mysterio
Stan Hansen vs Dick Murdoch
Stan Hansen vs Dustin Rhodes

Jushin Liger vs Ric Flair
Jushin Liger vs William Regal 
Jushin Liger vs Jerry Lawler

Dick Murdoch vs Eddie Guerrero
Bob Backlund vs Toshiaki Kawada
Volk Han vs Steve Grey
Marty Jones vs William Regal
El Hijo Del Santo vs Jushin Liger

Last 5 are just random match ups. Liger vs Santo in a bloody brawl = :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watching Rey/Brock and the cat and mouse game at the beginning is fucking amazing :lmao BROCK


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mark Henry Vs Brock Lesnar - SD 01/08/2002

The Next Big Thing, BROOOOOOCCCKKKK LESSSSSSSNAAAR Vs The World's Strongest Man Mark Henry. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Henry is fresh off his win at the first Arnold Strongman contest (which btw, I'm 99% positive was a fix so Henry could win and WWE would promote the shit out of it to help it get off the ground), and Lesnar is still the young, impressively powerful rookie looking to dominate anyone.

I'd LOVE to see this happen today. Hall of Pain Henry Vs MMA Lesnar. Fuck.

But 2002 version was still a ton of fucking fun. Henry is the only guy up to this point that can stand toe to toe with Lesnar and even be the STRONGER of the two, but Lesnar has the amateur wrestling background and is super fast, so he can use his power in a different way to take down Henry.

Holy shit, delayed vertical suplex on Lesnar! Awesome to see someone be able to manhandle Lesnar, and it makes it all the more special when Lesnar hits an overhead belly to belly, and F5, and gets the win. Short but oh so sweet.

**

And on a related note, I NEED to do a SD 02 project at some point. This show not only had that match, but Angle/Hogan (their KOTR match was good), Rey/Tajiri, and Edge & Rock/Eddie & Benoit (new SD acquisitions). And the shows are stacked like this on a weekly fucking basis. But for now, LESNAR. *next episode time*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I finally watched a match that I always stayed away from because apparently it was so horribly bad. The Almighty One himself, Dave Meltzer gave it **3/4. And if Dave Meltzer says it's bad, then you know it's bad.

The match I'm talking about is Triple H vs Batista at Wrestlemania 21. What are some of you guys opinions on it? Me personally, it doesn;t get the praise it deserve. How the hell could the Observer give this **3/4? And well, if the Observer says it's **3/4 then obviously its subscribers says it as well. I've always seen a lot of shit for this match but after watching it, I can't see how this match could possibly be considered bad.

This match is freaking good if you ask me. Some good control segments by the game, Batista makes a nice comeback. A brilliantly done false finish as well if you ask me. The part where HHH hits Batista with the title, if you didn't known the results before hand, it's very possible to believe that would have been the finish. The fans booing definitely signifies that they all thought HHH was gonna win by using dirty tactics. 

Man, screw the haters. I freaking liked this match. It gets ***3/4 from me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Poor Yeah1993, I know you're trying to summon vivalabrave back to this place. But there are far better ways  .
> 
> On topic, isn't there a Kane vs Chavo match that usually gets brought up as quite good? Backlash maybe?
> 
> *On topic 2: was that Koslov/Festus sub 5 minute Smackdown encounter from 2008? If so i'mma go ahead and give that my TV MOTY for 08. Wrestling needs more big guys beating the everloving dogpiss out of each other*.


God damn I love you. Here I thought I was the only guy _(and my buddy who watched that Smackdown with me)_ who thought that match was too damn awesome on account of it being a complete slugfest.

Triple H vs Batista from WrestleMania 21 - **. Blah.

Dream matches? Fuck I got giddy just thinking about some and reading some of the selections. I'll go to a prior conversation I had with WOOLCOCK and have to say I want this gem to happen: Necro Butcher vs Jerry Lawler - circa MEMPHIS days. Or any territory really. It would have to involve a time machine, but of course this is all hypothetical so screw it. If I got this program, I think the level of marking would reach a whole new high. Necro could have been the best beast up and down the territories.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista/HHH from Mania was not bad, just kind of dull. ★★★.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar on Smackdown - August 2002:

Brock Lesnar Vs Mark Henry - SD 01/08/2002

The Next Big Thing, BROOOOOOCCCKKKK LESSSSSSSNAAAR Vs The World's Strongest Man Mark Henry. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Henry is fresh off his win at the first Arnold Strongman contest (which btw, I'm 99% positive was a fix so Henry could win and WWE would promote the shit out of it to help it get off the ground), and Lesnar is still the young, impressively powerful rookie looking to dominate anyone.

I'd LOVE to see this happen today. Hall of Pain Henry Vs MMA Lesnar. Fuck.

But 2002 version was still a ton of fucking fun. Henry is the only guy up to this point that can stand toe to toe with Lesnar and even be the STRONGER of the two, but Lesnar has the amateur wrestling background and is super fast, so he can use his power in a different way to take down Henry.

Holy shit, delayed vertical suplex on Lesnar! Awesome to see someone be able to manhandle Lesnar, and it makes it all the more special when Lesnar hits an overhead belly to belly, and F5, and gets the win. Short but oh so sweet.

**

Brock Lesnar Vs Hulk Hogan - SD 08/08/2002

Not the greatest match, but a ton of fun for sure. Crowd are insane for Hogan. Love how they built up Hogan as being almost the ultimate challenge for Lesnar at this point in his career. Heyman on the outside yelling to Brock "He's different! He's Hulk Hogan, he's DIFFERENT!" while Lesnar is playing with Hulk like he did with everyone else at the time, being too inexperienced to truly understand who he's in the ring with. Hogan did his usual schtick; no selling stuff but not anything major that pissed you off, just in the way that is part of his gimmick. He even has Brock reeling and even begging him off, the first time we'd seen this kind of thing from Lesnar. And then Bock got it. He understood who he was in the ring with. It started with the ledgrop, and once Brock kicked out, he evolved. He went after Hulk like a man possessed. No more messing about. F-5. Busted Hogan wide open. And then locked in the bear hug and beat Hogan in perhaps THE most decisive way that Hogan has ever been beaten in. Perfect build up match to SS imo. Heyman was proclaiming Lesnar to be the next big thing. He was young, athletic, powerful. He had EVERYTHING but experience, but week after week we'd see him get better and better, and in this match its like he went from a rookie to a veteran; that's how much he learnt. He wasn't in the ring with your average guy. No more Hardy Boys (just popular team at the time). No Rikishi. No Booker T. No RVD. He was in the ring with one of THE stars. One of THE legends. He went into the match inexperienced. He made mistakes. Then he LEARNT. He adapted. He evolved. He grew. And he took OUT Hulk Hogan, and was finally ready for The Rock and the WWE Title at SummerSlam. Great stuff here, telling a pretty magnificent story imo. And Hogan taking a fucking POWERBOMB (albeit out of the corner, but all that did was allow Hogan to not have to try and flip himself up onto Brock's shoulders lol)? Awesome lol.

***3/4

Brock Lesnar Vs Rikishi - SD 15/08/2002

Rikishi might not be as strong as Henry, but he's a big bastard so seeing Lesnar dominate him couldn't be anything less than fun!

Nice callback spot to the Henry match though (doubt it was intentional, but I like to think so  ). Lesnar charges into Rikishi, and like Henry, he doesn't move. Do Rikishi eggs on Lesnar to try again, only Lesnar goes for a clothesline instead, which levelled Henry. Rikishi though sees it coming and ducks, taking down Lesnar with a clothesline of his own .

Some nice arm work for the 30 seconds it takes place, and nice selling from Rikishi too. BELLY TO BELLY OVERHEAD. I mark for that move every time. BEARHUG. Watching Bossman matches at the RR killed the Bearhug for me, but LESNAR using it is still great. He BEAT HOGAN with it the week before, so its credible as fuck.

Great little comeback from Rikishi, including a stinkface to Heyman who sells it amazingly, before Lesnar breaks him in half with an F5 for the win. Super fun.

**1/2

Brock Lesnar Vs Matt Hardy - SD 29/08/2002

Lesnar won the Undisputed title at SummerSlam days earlier, and now he's exclusive to SD. Hardy went to Stephanie and asked for a match with Lesnar. Guess he was out of his mind back in 02 as well? 

Lol, Lesnar just dumps Hardy over the ropes when he's posing during his entrance. Hardy tries, but Lesnar is on a whole other level and just mauls him. MAULS HIM. And I love every second of it. Does that make me a bad person? 

Lesnar catching Hardy from a crossbody from the top rope to the OUTSIDE was amazing. They make it seem like someone is the strongest person everaz when they do the same thing, but in the ring rather than outside. Lesnar had to catch Matt falling from like an extra 3 feet. Awesome. Another fun match from Lesnar. I think the "Lesnar doesn't have a bad match" saying might be right. Except for RR Vs Holly and WM Vs Goldberg .

**


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm a fan of the match personally. Don't think it's nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Was actually watching the finish of the match earlier as it happens since the whole match is on YouTube.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> God damn I love you. Here I thought I was the only guy _(and my buddy who watched that Smackdown with me)_ who thought that match was too damn awesome on account of it being a complete slugfest.
> 
> Dream matches? Fuck I got giddy just thinking about some and reading some of the selections. I'll go to a prior conversation I had with WOOLCOCK and have to say I want this gem to happen: Necro Butcher vs Jerry Lawler - circa MEMPHIS days. Or any territory really. It would have to involve a time machine, but of course this is all hypothetical so screw it. If I got this program, I think the level of marking would reach a whole new high. Necro could have been the best beast up and down the territories.


 .

Yup, adored it. Nothing too serious, short and sweet. Two big lumps potatoing each other for our pleasure.

Oh man, overlooked Necro vs Lawler. Necro vs Takayama also strikes me as a potential blossom pairing. Basically anyone who's a big lump like Joe who can kick ten bells out of nutty Necro should be a recipe for greatness. Oh man, Hashimoto vs Necro is screaming out right about now. Hashimoto kicking the crap out of Necro in ways even Naoya Ogawa wasn't subjected to and Necro throwing hobo esque punches square in the snout of Hashimoto, oh the thoughts.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only part of the match I really find appealing was how the fans responded to Batista's thumbs down. Great camera shot capturing what appeared to be every fan doing it with him.

It's not much of anything though. Nor is the Backlash match. That's what blows me away so much about their Hell in a Cell at Vengeance. Two incredibly average matches followed by one of my personal favorite blow offs in the whole of wrestling. There was something in the air that night.



WOOLCOCK said:


> .
> 
> Yup, adored it. Nothing too serious, short and sweet. Two big lumps potatoing each other for our pleasure.
> 
> Oh man, overlooked Necro vs Lawler. Necro vs Takayama also strikes me as a potential blossom pairing. Basically anyone who's a big lump like Joe who can kick ten bells out of nutty Necro should be a recipe for greatness. Oh man, Hashimoto vs Necro is screaming out right about now. Hashimoto kicking the crap out of Necro in ways even Naoya Ogawa wasn't subjected to and Necro throwing hobo esque punches square in the snout of Hashimoto, oh the thoughts.


If Koslov was stuck doing that, he might have faired better during his tenure. Festus/Gallows/D.O.C. speaks for himself. Always liked the guy. More walloping in matches please.

If I were to go into the realm of Japanese stars to go toe to toe with Necro then wow. I did get a dream match for me in Necro vs Morishima back in 2008. Think it was good, but can't remember how much I loved it tbhayley. I think I was one of the few who marked for it. Necro vs Big Tak. Jesus christ the thought of it. Beauty is, that one could still happen. Hashimoto would have been bliss too. Always makes me laugh how Hashimoto and Ogawa had their bouts, then when HUSTLE came around their alliance was well in tact. Speaking of HUSTLE - Necro vs KAWADA. It's a drop in the bucket here. Kawada can make anything great.

I can help but stem back to the Necro in territory days mentality. I see him teaming (or even feuding) vs Terry Funk at the time. Those two wild men as a team. Sounds brilliant to me. What if Funk had Necro as his running buddy during the '89 program vs Flair? When Flair got the upper hand at GAB, Necro could have debuted and DESTROYED Flair. I know the way things ended with Muta and subsequently leading in with Sting joining the Horsemen was good. I can't help but get the juices flowing in knowing Flair's uphill struggle against Gary Hart's wicked alliance would have been very stellar if Necro was in the mix.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Batista/HHH WM21 gets **, BL match gets **3/4. Nothing that good from Batista/HHH until the Cell match, which ended up being spectacular. But to the observer giving it **3/4, they were being too generous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Batista/HHH WM - **3/4. Its ok and nothing more.
Batista/HHH BL - ***1/4. This was going awesome... until Batista completely ignored the fact his back was worked over the entire match and no sold the shit out of it in favour of hitting big power moves and his finisher at the end.
Batista/HHH VG - ****1/2. Awesomesauce.

Did they ever have a TV match or anything after this?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> If Koslov was stuck doing that, he might have faired better during his tenure. Festus/Gallows/D.O.C. speaks for himself. Always liked the guy. More walloping in matches please.
> 
> If I were to go into the realm of Japanese stars to go toe to toe with Necro then wow. I did get a dream match for me in Necro vs Morishima back in 2008. Think it was good, but can't remember how much I loved it tbhayley. I think I was one of the few who marked for it. Necro vs Big Tak. Jesus christ the thought of it. Beauty is, that one could still happen. Hashimoto would have been bliss too. Always makes me laugh how Hashimoto and Ogawa had their bouts, then when HUSTLE came around their alliance was well in tact. Speaking of HUSTLE - Necro vs KAWADA. It's a drop in the bucket here. Kawada can make anything great.
> 
> I can help but stem back to the Necro in territory days mentality. I see him teaming (or even feuding) vs Terry Funk at the time. Those two wild men as a team. Sounds brilliant to me. What if Funk had Necro as his running buddy during the '89 program vs Flair? When Flair got the upper hand at GAB, Necro could have debuted and DESTROYED Flair. I know the way things ended with Muta and subsequently leading in with Sting joining the Horsemen was good. I can't help but get the juices flowing in knowing Flair's uphill struggle against Gary Hart's wicked alliance would have been very stellar if Necro was in the mix.


Yeah sad to see he had the potential for those sorts of violent spurts and was instead saddled with padding out his offence for longer matches. An example that sometime straying from the cliche formula can be to the benefit of a worker. Gallows is tremendous, people who watch his work should notice that by know. Overlooked brawler and big man.

Yeah Necro is a guy who realistically could work with anyone. Lunatic bumper, no regard for his well being and has that Foley desire to eat as many stiff strikes as the body can withstand. Hashimoto and Takayama have the height and weight advantage to make for a great underdog dynamic with Necro being a smaller than his adversaries. Sort of like a Dustin Rhodes setting where he's big enough to cause some damage but still has the size difference to look overmatched and helpless. Don't even want to consider the beating Necro would take in the ring against either of them. Both look horrificly violent even when they're likely lessening the actual damage, put that against someone like Necro who does not give a fuck and I imagine the lawyers and doctors would be taking substantial overtime.

Necro in the territory days would have been something. Could have worked as the hired mercenery in a long running angle, such as being payed by a Jimmy Hart to take out Lawler. Could have been almost Abdullah like in roaming from territory to territory, staying long enough to create a buzz and lasting impression whilst his stay was short enough to feel fresh and with room to return. Imagine him working Lawler, Dundee, Duggan, Murdoch, Dibiase, Reed, Sawyer, Morton, Valentine, Arn, Magnum etc. Just can't even comprehend what we could have gotten with his style in those grungy and autentic settings.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Big Z said:


> Batista/HHH WM - **3/4. Its ok and nothing more.
> Batista/HHH BL - ***1/4. This was going awesome... until Batista completely ignored the fact his back was worked over the entire match and no sold the shit out of it in favour of hitting big power moves and his finisher at the end.
> Batista/HHH VG - ****1/2. Awesomesauce.
> 
> Did they ever have a TV match or anything after this?


I remember one Raw they were going to have a match, but it ended up getting switched for a tag match or something. They had an in-ring interaction at some point after Batista turned heel with HHH getting the upperhand on him, but besides that, nothing else happened after their feud ended with them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah sad to see he had the potential for those sorts of violent spurts and was instead saddled with padding out his offence for longer matches. An example that sometime straying from the cliche formula can be to the benefit of a worker. Gallows is tremendous, people who watch his work should notice that by know. Overlooked brawler and big man.
> 
> Yeah Necro is a guy who realistically could work with anyone. Lunatic bumper, no regard for his well being and has that Foley desire to eat as many stiff strikes as the body can withstand. Hashimoto and Takayama have the height and weight advantage to make for a great underdog dynamic with Necro being a smaller than his adversaries. Sort of like a Dustin Rhodes setting where he's big enough to cause some damage but still has the size difference to look overmatched and helpless. Don't even want to consider the beating Necro would take in the ring against either of them. Both look horrificly violent even when they're likely lessening the actual damage, put that against someone like Necro who does not give a fuck and I imagine the lawyers and doctors would be taking substantial overtime.
> 
> Necro in the territory days would have been something. Could have worked as the hired mercenery in a long running angle, such as being payed by a Jimmy Hart to take out Lawler. Could have been almost Abdullah like in roaming from territory to territory, staying long enough to create a buzz and lasting impression whilst his stay was short enough to feel fresh and with room to return. Imagine him working Lawler, Dundee, Duggan, Murdoch, Dibiase, Reed, Sawyer, Morton, Valentine, Arn, Magnum etc. Just can't even comprehend what we could have gotten with his style in those grungy and autentic settings.


Case and point vs Triple H at Survivor Series 2008. It killed his career b/c of hos abysmal it was. WWE seems to have Ryback down well. Don't let him work too many lengthy bouts and he'll be ok. I think that's why I have no disdain for the guy. Plus, he's a Tough Enough kid. So, it's pretty cool to see his successes, imo.

I can literally picture those matches playing out. Speaks volumes to how natural of a fit it is to have Necro against those guys. I'll start a petition to have Takayama back in NJPW and for them to sign Necro to a one or two night contract and work a show at the end of this year to set up a match vs Tak come Wrestle Kingdom VIII. It could happen. 

See, this is both a wonderful bit of fantasy booking and also a bit of a tug on my heartstrings b/c I'll know these matches and moments will forever be a fragment of my dreams. It's almost making me want to start up a Be The Booker just to make the most fantasy driven bouts actually occur. I have enough on my plate as it is! I'm a guy with a wild imagination. All I need is something to spark my favorite hobby and I'm off to the races. Necro vs Valentine in a bloody war. My stars - the genius of it. I can see Valentine wearing the crimson mask yelling out obscenities at Necro in the mist of the war. Gives me chills.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really wanna check out Kozlov/HHH from SVS 08 just to see it for myself. But I'm running the risk of enduring another JBL/Batista GAB 05 where the match is not laughably bad (like Taker/HHH KOTR), but BORING.



Big Z said:


> Batista/HHH WM - **3/4. Its ok and nothing more.
> Batista/HHH BL - ***1/4. This was going awesome... until Batista completely ignored the fact his back was worked over the entire match and no sold the shit out of it in favour of hitting big power moves and his finisher at the end.
> Batista/HHH VG - ****1/2. Awesomesauce.
> 
> Did they ever have a TV match or anything after this?


Bump the first and last by a quarter and I'm fully with you on all of them.

I really wonder how their cell match ended up being so much better than the first two. The cell is not always a solution to a feud that's boring (see HHH/HBK) but in this case, HIAC has made it easier to look back fondly at the feud and overlook the two first matches which were average.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, it's on the levels of Batista vs JBL bad. If not worse tbhayley.

Survivor Series has a much more exciting finish though. So it's ironic in what payoff you want.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I really wanna check out Kozlov/HHH from SVS 08 just to see it for myself. But I'm running the risk of enduring another JBL/Batista GAB 05 where the match is not laughably bad (like Taker/HHH KOTR), but BORING.


Oh, it is incredibly boring, and one of the worst matches of all time imo, maybe even the worst for me. I couldn't sit through more than a minute of that shit again. At least Taker/Bossman had Bearer on the outside, Koslov/HHH does nothing interesting or good, and the worst part is, you could see both men trying.

The only saving grace is the fact Edge came in and took the title, which isn't much of anything if you aren't a fan of Edge... and if you're someone who hates Edge... well... things just go from abysmal to pleasekillmenowthisistooawful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked JEFF HARDY showing up with the bandage behind his head b/c someone attacked him in the stairwell of his hotel.

STORYTELLING


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao I remember people thinking he had legit collapsed in the stairwell due to possible DRUG related shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The ultimate bait and switch by WWE. It felt legit...until he showed up at the finish. 8*D


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I have a craving to see BITW heel punk vs. 86-87 Barry Windham. Windham as the incredibly talented youngster, with punk having this 400 plus day long championship reign in a PPV match. Could be reminiscent of the Flair Windham matches.

Brock/Bryan is my dream match of purely wwe workers today, I want this to happen so badly, Bryan's the perfect opponent for lesnar to face. 

Oh and Takayama/Mysterio and Takayama/Bryan would be insane, TAKAYAMA KNEE TO MYSTERIO OFF THE TOP ROPE :mark: :mark: :mark:

Eddie/Taker is another one of those matches we should have gotten but never did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Takayama vs Mysterio - holy shit :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H vs Batista series ;

Wrestlemania XXI : ***** (REWATCH ONCE I GET THERE)
Backlash 2005 : **** 3/4* (DAT PEDIGREE INVOLVED IN DAT PSYCHOLOGY)
Vengeance 2005 : ***** 3/4* (TOP 25 WWF/WWE MATCH EVER AND MOTY BABY!)

LOVE that series honestly. Here's a tougher question for everybody ; *FAVORITE MOTY EVERY YEAR SINCE... WHENEVER ?* I don't mean the BEST, I mean as a straight up favorite match, can be anything good or bad... My picks ;

1994 : Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X) : *******
1995 : Bret Hart vs Diesel (Survivor Series) : ***** 3/4*
1996 : Shawn Michaels vs Vader (Summerslam) : ***** 1/4*
1997 : The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Hell in a Cell ; IYH Bad Blood) : *******
1998 : Triple H vs The Rock (Ladder ; Summerslam) : ******
1999 : Triple H vs Mankind (RAW) : ****
2000 : Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded) : *******
2001 : Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7) : ******
2002 : The Rock vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam) : ***** 1/4*
2003 : Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show (Stretcher Match ; Judgment Day) : ***** 1/4*
2004 : Triple H vs Eugene (Summerslam) : **** 3/4*
2005 : Triple H vs Ric Flair (Last Man Standing ; Survivor Series) : ***** 1/4*
2006 : Triple H vs The Big Show (New Years Revolution) : ******
2007 : Degeneration X vs Rated RKO (New Years Revolution) : ***** 1/4*
2008 : Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (No Mercy) : ***** 1/4*
2009 : CM Punk vs The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) : **** 1/2*
2010 : CM Punk vs The Undertaker (Smackdown) : ******
2011 : CM Punk vs Triple H (Night of Champions) : ******
2012 : Triple H vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2012) : ***** 1/2*

Triple H, CM Punk, & BORK For the win. Might make a top 100 favorite matches someday :brock


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Favorite match from each year (I'll go from 1998 on):

1998: Undertaker vs. Austin Summerslam (***1/2)
1999: Undertaker vs. Rock King of the Ring (***1/2)
2000: Foley vs. HHH Royal Rumble (same as best for 2000) (*****)
2001: WWE vs. Alliance Survivor Series (****)
2002: Undertaker vs. Rock vs. Angle Vengeance (****1/2)
2003: Undertaker vs. Angle Smackdown (****1/4)
2004: Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar No Way Out (****1/2)
2005: Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown (pretty much for commentary alone, I could watch this match a hundred times over and not be bored with it) (****)
2006: Edge vs. Foley Wrestlemania 22 (****1/4)
2007: Undertaker vs. Batista Wrestlemania 23 (Same as best for 2007) (****1/2)
2008: Undertaker vs. Edge Wrestlemania 24 (Favorite WM main event ever) (****1/4)
2009: Undertaker vs. HBK Wrestlemania 25 (Same as best for 2009) (*****)
2010: Barrett vs. Cena Hell in a Cell (Great match, Cena lost and was forced to join the Nexus, and I never get bored watching it. Had such a big-match feel to it too) (****)
2011: Punk vs. Cena MITB (Same as best) (****1/2)
2012: Punk vs. Bryan OTL (Same as best) (*****)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell in a Cell for the Cena vs Barrett match. 

Bragging Rights was one of those awful Barrett vs Orton matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> Hell in a Cell for the Cena vs Barrett match.
> 
> Bragging Rights was one of those awful Barrett vs Orton matches.


Fixed, thanks for noting that. Thought for some reason I put HIAC.

You know, since it's been brought up, which does everyone think is worse? Barrett/Orton Bragging Rights or Barrett/Orton Survivor Series. Both suck monkey balls, both are matches where there's more focus on Cena than the championship, and both ended terribly. I don't know if I can pick one above the other. Maybe SVS just for the fact it had a 1-2-3 finish, but meh... part of me wants to re-watch them to see, but I just can't bring myself to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just watched Barrett vs Orton from Bragging Rights a week ago. Have that at 3/4*. I'd have to give Survivor Series another watch to see which I dislike more. I think it might be Survivor Series actually. When it ended after my first watch I was left saying "That was it?" Cena is fired b/c of that? Bragging Rights was bad, but it almost got a pass b/c it was the first match and it was going to continue no matter what.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Least favorite match from your favorite performers (fuck, I'm going overkill on the questions lately, not alot to rate since I'm doing a Mania project and keeping it TOP SECRETZ) ?

Triple H : vs Hogan @ Backlash 2000 (ugh, the dullest POS I've ever seen coupled with Hunter dropping the title to the young star who needed it most.. OH WAIT)
CM Punk : vs Morrison @ Vengeance 2007 (Think everybody knows the reason behind this)
Brock Lesnar : vs Hardcore Holly @ Royal Rumble 2004 (The Goldberg Match is hilarious)
Randy Savage : vs Hulk Hogan @ Nitro 98 I do believe ? (it's on the NWO DVD and it's the worst Savage match I've ever seen, what a fucking joke)
Ric Flair : Hmmmmm... Not sure to be honest.
Bret Hart : 99 percent of the shit he did in WCW, bar none

Can't think of a FLAIR match I don't like due to him being fucking AWESOME and entertaining in even the worst matches possible (DOOMSDAY).

GOATS GONNA GOAT :flair3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker: vs. Bossman WM15
Edge: Not sure entirely, but his match against Orton at OTL 2010 (or whatever the May PPV was that year) was a huge huge HUUUUUUUUUUGE disappointingly terrible match.
CM Punk: Again, nothing sticks out in my head as "my least favorite", but recently is probably the triple threat at Summerslam 2012.

I'll maybe put more tomorrow.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OMFG I forgot about Punk's match with Big Show @ Night of Champions 2010. THE WORST IIRC, haven't seen it since it aired though, might order that DVD now so I can rewatch. The Taker match with Bossman is the WOAT cell match, the WOAT Undertaker match, and legit one of the worst matches I've ever seen. 

I've seen THAT FUCKING MATCH like 5 times now, and sadly I have to watch it again for my MANIA project.... I'll probably be there in like two days FFS, UGH. Seriousy, when it comes to Wrestlemania matches that go over five minutes I actually think it might be the worst, so when I do my top 29 worst matches in Wrestlemania history that'll definitely be pretty damn high (again, if it's under say.... FOUR minutes it won't count).


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Finishing off my top 29 list now for wrestlemania matches still gotta eliminate 5 more matches so difficult, for my countdown and review.

KOK what are your ratings and thoughts on hogan/savage and hogan/warrior?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 29 WM Matches:

1) Bret/Austin WM13
2) Taker/HBK WM25
3) Bret/Owen WM10
4) Austin/Rock WM17
5) Taker/HBK WM26
6) HBK/Jericho WM19
7) HBK/Razor WM10
8) Taker/Batista WM23
9) HBK/Angle WM21
10) Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20
11) Austin/Rock WM19
12) Taker/Edge WM24
13) Savage/Steamboat WM3
14) Taker/Orton WM21
15) Punk/Jericho WM28
16) Hogan/Savage WM5
17) MITB WM21
18) Edge/Foley WM22
19) MITB WM24
20) Flair/Savage WM8
21) Lesnar/Angle WM19
22) HBK/Cena WM23
23) Savage/Warrior WM7
24) Flair/HBK WM24
25) Taker/Kane WM14
26) Taker/HHH WM28
27) Taker/HHH WM17
28) Eddie Guerrero/Kurt Angle WM20
29) Edge/Jericho WM26


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Least favorite match from your favorite performers (fuck, I'm going overkill on the questions lately, not alot to rate since I'm doing a Mania project and keeping it TOP SECRETZ) ?
> 
> Triple H : vs Hogan @ Backlash 2000 (ugh, the dullest POS I've ever seen coupled with Hunter dropping the title to the young star who needed it most.. OH WAIT)
> CM Punk : vs Morrison @ Vengeance 2007 (Think everybody knows the reason behind this)
> ...


Flair as the "Black Scorpion" vs Sting is a dreadful match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Skipped Wrestlemania VI by accident SOMEHOW and just got around to watching it today, I'm watching Hogan-Warrior right now as we speak believe it or not. Not gonna give away too much, but here were my pre project ratings for both Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Warrior ;

Hogan-Savage WM V : ***** 1/4*
Hogan-Warrior WM VI : ***** 1/4*

On a rewatch I changed my rating for Hogan-Savage and I'm expecting that to happen for Hogan-Warrior too. Always thought Hogan-Savage was one of the most brilliant carry jobs I've ever seen TBH and I've always liked it a shade more than the Warrior match, which we'll see how it holds up now.

Great list *RAWK*, there are a few very interesting things on there such as HBK/Jericho being high, and Taker-Orton being higher than any of the Taker-Trips Wrestlemania matches. Taker's progression as a main event superstar is going to be an interesting development once I watch Wrestlemania XIII tomorrow and... OH SHIT I GET TO WATCH AUSTIN-BRET TOMORROW. Believe it or not, I've only seen that match twice and I've had it as like my number four greatest WWF/WWE match before this list started, and the third best match in Mania history. A TON of shit has changed since then on my list so god knows where it'll clock in now 

Does ANYBODY have that match at less than five stars ? HAS to be the universal GOAT WWF/WWE match right ?

@ CODY , Flair was so awful in that match because he couldn't break out his usual GOAT FLAIR OMGZ moves because it would obviously give away that it was him. IN MY BOOK IT WASN'T A RIC FLAIR MATCH   

GOATS STILL GONNA GOAT :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT STILL WAS A BAD FLAIR MATCH THOUGH. :side:

But the guy in his prime literally had like what seemed to be zero bad matches. 2000 doesn't count. Not many guys in WCW during 2000 had anything worth seeing. FLAIR.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Cheers KOK yer I have both hogan/savage and hogan warrior around ****** should both make my final 29 matches. 

Bret/Austin would have to be the universal GOAT, I think I've only ever seen 1 person not have it at *******

You could say its an amazing match, but its so much more the storytelling, the double turn, the impact on the business I'm starting to convince myself it may be the GOAT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's perfect on so many aspects. That's why it's held in such high regard. If not the greatest WM match ever produced.

I should watch it tonight. :hmm:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I watched it last night :mark: it's pretty much the perfect match. 

It'll be pretty hard to top on my countdown.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've changed my STARZ on both Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Warrior. The result is quite INTERESTING to say the least. 

WRESTLEMANIA XIII BEGINS WITH DOUG FURNAS AND PHIL LAFON :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I still enjoyed both when I watched them last night, hogan/warrior DAT atmosphere. Young edge would of been marking out. 

Finally got to watch punk/Jericho :mark: **** 1/2* stars for me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Flair/Savage cage match is pretty ass-boring. Not the worst Flair match I guess, but one of higher profile that just wasn't any good. Goes forever, nothing really happens and then we get a 'surprise' heel turn. WCW were absolutely nutty for surprise heel turns in 1996. 

I don't like a lot of 02-03 Flair either. Including the Michaels match at the PPV; they have a much, much better one at a house show that I think actually took place at MSG.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

The Rawk said:


> Top 29 WM Matches:
> 
> 1) Bret/Austin WM13
> 2) Taker/HBK WM25
> ...


Since I'm far too lazy to make a list of my own, let me just say some things I'd change on your list, as a way to customize (remember, I'm lazy).

First is I'm bumping HHH/HBK/Benoit to the #1 spot. I love Hart/Austin, I really do, best moment in wrestling history to me as a fan, when Austin is riving and the blood is falling down his face, dripping off his nose. It's a brilliant match, but the question I ask myself is: Which match is a funner watch? Which match I enjoy more, keeps me more entertained? That triple threat has everything, unpredictable anything can happen finish, great submissions, sweet chins, I've seen it a million time, and everytime I watch it, it's completely riveting. It's fresh. It's new somehow. And when I rewatch the HBK/Taker matches, I just don't get that same feeling. At all. When I rewatch Austin/Hart, I'm bored with the work in the crowd and I'm just waiting for my moment, noticing it's weaknesses in the quality of the picture (seeing how it was from Mania 13). It just felt old. And I realize that this maybe a completely subjective thing, but those lines have been blurred for a long time kid.

I like the fact that Savage/Steamboat didn't make the top 10. Hell, on my list, it might not make the top 20. And say what you want, this is the Stairway to Heaven of pro wrestling. It's automatically billed as the best match/song ever, and if you don't think so, then automatically there's something wrong. It's idolized and put on a pedestal and almost seems to represent something other than a match. I understand that it was Wrestlemania 3, a number that we are about to TRIPLE (this match is old) it has a completely different pace. This is what I'm talking about when a few weeks ago I mentioned the significance of "Era's" in WWE. This is a match of a different era, where Randy Savage would jump off the top rope every night and people thought he was Jeff Hardy. It's a different product. What might have been 'catch-as-catch-can' back then isn't the same. It's a fine match, really, even if overrated. It really needs a context.

I love the love you give to Orton/Taker. One of my favorites from the Streak- probably the match that was most likely to see the Undertaker lose. It made the most sense here to give a completely mortal, now humble streak away to a rising young star, give him a lot of moment, pretty much do what "The Streak" was designed to do: Put over another worker. Except since it's Taker it's better off he just puts himself over. Which is fine. In fact, it's the way it should be. But it's just a really cool match.

Also like the respect given to HBK/Jericho. 

Would definitely bump UP Lesnar/Angle. I'm a really, really big fan of Mania 19. Probably helps that I'm in Puget Sound.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think a lot more people like the 2004 3-way more than Savage v Steamboat. On this site, anyway. I bet if you ran a poll the numbers would tilt heavily toward the 3-way.

Also IDK what you mean by 'it really needs a context'. That wasn't their first match together and they actually had a running feud where Savage crushed Steamboat's larynx with the ring bell, which comes into play during the Mania match. It's just one big blow-off where mostly everything comes full circle.

I don't like when people use the 'it's outdated' line when talking about Savage/Steamboat. Who likes the match for the flying elbow and the 'moveset' and all that rubbish? It's an exciting feud-ender no matter what moves they used, and hell, people were doing more spectacular-looking moves in the 70s than in that match (maybe not in the WWF, but WHA/EV). It would have been a great match in 2013 (with most likely a bunch of shitfaces chanting "this is awesome") for the same reason it was a great match in 1987. If someone doesn't think it's a great match, then, y'know, whatever, different strokes. But 'this wouldn't look that impressive is it happened recently' is a criticism of the match I've always really hated.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

To think something decades ago couldn't be done nowadays or done BETTER is a complete farce. How much great wrestling came from WCW in the early 90's? Far too much to slaughter the latter 90's and earlier 2000's if I'm being honest. If not be a sustained period enough to hold up till this day.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WCW WORLD WAR 3 60 MAN BATTLE ROYAL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WHICH ONE?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

96 and 97!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUN.

The ending to '95 was the best though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Nash in a sting mask in 97 :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He donned that a few times that year. As if it fooled anyone :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i love the commontators...its STING (CLIMBS OVER THE ROPES) :lmao


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Undertaker vs Shelton Benjamin (Smackdown - 09/01/2009) - *** *
*Undertaker vs Shelton Benjamin (Smackdown - 23/01/2009) - ***1/4* (Awesome match.I remember the first time i saw this match and i thought Shelton was so close to win the match.).
*Undertaker vs Shelton Benjamin (Smackdown - 17/4/2009) - ***1/2* (This match happened after Wrestlemania 25 and Shelton's focus was on Taker's injured neck.This is the best match between the two.)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Went through some of WeAreProWrestling's stuff and I found his list of 5-star matches. A very controversial one for sure:


> Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat WM3
> The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage WM7
> Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart SSlam 91
> 30-Man RR Match RR 92
> ...


Cool list for sure, but it'll surely be controversial around here. Opinions are opinions, but plenty of matches I disagree on being *****.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Someone take a guess at which 3 made me smirk when I saw them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't know who/what that site is, but I'll give some REAL ratings to the list .

Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat WM3 - ****1/4
The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage WM7 - ***3/4
Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart SSlam 91 - *****
30-Man RR Match RR 92 - *****
Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog SSlam 92 - ****
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect KOTR 93 - *****
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart WM10 - *****
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon WM10 - ****1/2
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart SSlam 94 - ***
Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund SS 94 - ***
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels WM12 - **1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel IYH Good Friends Better Enemies - ***1/4
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart SS 96 - *****
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart WM13 - *****
10-Man TT Match IYH Canadian Stampede - ****
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels IYH Badd Blood - ********************** GOAT
The Undertaker vs. Mankind KOTR 98 - ****1/4
The Rock vs. Triple H SSlam 98 - **3/4
Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys NM 99 - ***1/2
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack RR 2000 - ****3/4
Triangle Ladder Match WM16 - ****1/4
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H NWO 01 - ***1/4
TLC II WM17 - ***3/4
The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin WM17 - ****1/2
Team WWF vs. Team Alliance SS 01 - ****1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H SSlam 02 - ***1/4
Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit NM 02 - ****1/2
Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker NM 02 - ****3/4
Triple Threat Elimination TT Match SS 02 - ****
Elimination Chamber SS 02 - ****
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit RR 03 - ***1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho WM19 - ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar SD Sep. 03 - ****1/2
Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff SS 03 - ***3/4
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit WM20 - ****3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle WM21 - ****1/4
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels Raw April 07 - ****
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels WM24 - ***1/2
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels WM25 - *****
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels WM26 - ***** 
John Cena vs. CM Punk MITB 11 - ****3/4
The Undertaker vs. Triple H WM28 - ****3/4 (fuck you Cody cos I'm assuming you hate this match )


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No Trips/HBK match from RR 2002?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> No Trips/HBK match from RR 2002?


RR 02?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

27 yes. 28 was cool with me.

Still 3 out there :side: _(hint, one of them you rated pretty high yourself...)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> 27 yes. 28 was cool with me.
> 
> Still 3 out there :side: _(hint, one of them you rated pretty high yourself...)_


Well as long as you liked 28.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Big Z said:


> RR 02?


Summerslam 2002, sorry my mind was on Trips winning that year Rumble, lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match wasn't very good. Was all over the place. HBK didn't know what he was doing; revenge on HHH or proving he was still "the showstopper". I don't have a problem with matches wanting to put stories like that into them, but it was horribly done as I never got the sense that HBK was trying to decide what he wanted to do or anything; one minute he's punching the fuck out of HHH, the next he's climbing a ladder for the hell of it.

Kinda the same with the 3SOH with HHH/Austin. They seemed confused as to what match they were having.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Well as long as you liked 28.


Taker won and ended the era at 20-0. I _have_ to like it. (Y)

And no, I like HBK vs Trips from Summerslam '02.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Someone take a guess at which 3 made me smirk when I saw them.


Rock/Austin Wrestlemania 17
Austin/HHH 3SOH (think you were one of the people who thought far less of it than others)
Angle/Michaels Wrestlemania 21


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar on Smackdown - September 2002:

Brock Lesnar Vs Randy Orton - SD 05/09/2002

Orton Vs Lesnar? Cool. Looking at some of Lesnar's opponents for his first few months on SD and FUCK, some amazing talent. Can't wait.

Orton charges at Lesnar before the bell, knowing he needs to have an advantage as early as possible. But Lesnar just shrugs everything off and grabs Orton, throwing him with a huge Belly to Belly Overhead. Then he launches him head first into the ring post and Orton is down.

Match ends like Henry/Rey in 06; Crossbody from Orton, Lesnar rolls through and picks Orton up onto his shoulders, then hits an F5. Orton is bigger than Rey. Lesnar is "smaller" than Henry. That's fucking IMPRESSIVE. Yet another short, super fun match from BROCK LESNAR.

**

Brock Lesnar Vs Hardcore Holly - SD 12/09/2002

Yep, it's THAT match. Holly goes after Lesnar early, but its no use. Belly to Belly Overhead! Lesnar fights back and charges at Brock, sending both of them to the outside where they brawl until Lesnar hits another B2BO suplex on the floor :mark:.

From there Lesnar just beats down Bob like the bitch he is. Brock pretty much just TOYS with Sparky. And then BAM. Botch powerbomb, and Holly is gone for a year. Not before Brock just kicks the head of Holly lol. And then Lesnar attempts another Powerbomb, Holly escapes AND MAKES A COMEBACK. How the fuck did he do that? I don't remember this match all too well, I just assumed the match ended with the powerbomb. Nope, F5!

Yet another good "squash" from Brock. Botch powerbomb definitely looked just like a botch, rather than Holly sandbagging Brock. Looked like Lesnar didn't get him up high enough and Holly couldn't help out by swinging up or anything, so Lesnar just dropped him for the move anyway. Ouch.

**

Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena - SD 19/09/2002

:mark: Don't remember this even happening, so awesome. Cena is still a newbie, though so is Lesnar, but Cena hasn't had any kind of major push yet though he IS getting some big opportunities. Lesnar wears down Cena, mainly using "rest" holds in the early going, almost like he's trying to save himself for the big title match against Undertaker in a few days time.

Cena manages to get some shots in every now and then when Lesnar loses concentration by looking up the rampway, as Undertaker is expected to show up and come after Brock. F5 and this one is over. As usual, fun stuff. Just a shame nothing has really stood out so far aside from the Hogan match. Weird how Brock is champ and he spends his TV time fighting, well, midcarders. I guess they were saving any big matches for PPV? Pretty great booking if you ask me. Guy was being pushed to the moon, so why not keep his big matches for a time where people have to PAY to see them?

**


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive always wanted to see Brock in the Elimination Chamber, just tearing shit up lol : Not from last though, be a waste.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK

How were the matches from Main Event?


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

My 5 star Match List:

Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (60-Minute Iron Man Match - Wrestlemania XII)
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Hell in a Cell Match: IYH Badd Blood '98)
The Rock vs. Stone Cold (WWF Title Match at Wrestlemania X-7)
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble '03)
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold (Submission Match at Wrestlemania 13)
Undertaker vs. Mankind (Hell in a Cell: King of the Ring '98)
CM Punk vs. John Cena (WWE Title Match at Money in the Bank '11)
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (Street Fight at Royal Rumble '00)
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 21)
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar (Iron Man Match on Smackdown)


quickly off the top of my head anyways.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*****

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 1997
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts II 1986
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - World Wide Wrestling 1987
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 1989
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 1989
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 2010
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified 2006
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 1989
Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 1994
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 1997
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 2009
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 1991
Royal Rumble Match 1992
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2003
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993

Hasn't changed in years aside from me knocking The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 2002 off the list lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

In other words Taker/HBK = GOAT


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*CAL* must have forgotten to include the plethora of GAME matches that made his list.

:jpl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Poor HHH, not a single ***** match to his name . Same for Punk too though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Jeff Hardy vs Edge vs Triple H- Armageddon 2008- ***1/2*

Very good match, but the ending was brilliant. That Swanton from Hardy and the crowd reaction was just great. The match was worked perfectly and was made better by the crowd, who was really good. Nice match.


*Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk- WHC Match- Noc 2009- ***
*

The ending destroyed this match, which was really good. This and the match was too short, probably they ran out of time. It was pretty nice, but with a better booking it could have been better


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Poor HHH, not a single ***** match to his name .


You and Bret Hart should get together


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

After some serious thought, I'd place HHH as the 1024th greatest wrestler of all time 8*D.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Big Z said:


> Lesnar fights back and charges at Brock, sending both of them to the outside where they brawl until Lesnar hits another B2BO suplex on the floor :mark:.


Poor Bork had to wrestle himself in order to pull something out of that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao oops.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Reminds me of that one time when Perry Saturn had to put himself in an abdominal stretch while wrestling Goldberg :bron3


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think a lot more people like the 2004 3-way more than Savage v Steamboat. On this site, anyway. I bet if you ran a poll the numbers would tilt heavily toward the 3-way.
> 
> Also IDK what you mean by 'it really needs a context'. That wasn't their first match together and they actually had a running feud where Savage crushed Steamboat's larynx with the ring bell, which comes into play during the Mania match. It's just one big blow-off where mostly everything comes full circle.
> 
> I don't like when people use the 'it's outdated' line when talking about Savage/Steamboat. Who likes the match for the flying elbow and the 'moveset' and all that rubbish? It's an exciting feud-ender no matter what moves they used, and hell, people were doing more spectacular-looking moves in the 70s than in that match (maybe not in the WWF, but WHA/EV). It would have been a great match in 2013 (with most likely a bunch of shitfaces chanting "this is awesome") for the same reason it was a great match in 1987. If someone doesn't think it's a great match, then, y'know, whatever, different strokes. But 'this wouldn't look that impressive is it happened recently' is a criticism of the match I've always really hated.


Yea, you don't know what I mean when I mention context. I'm not talking about the feud, I'm talking about how this match was wrestled in the 80s. Savage taking high risks then would not be high risks now. That's why we have to understand that, at the time, this WAS the greatest match of all-time, and they did things that were never seen before. 

It's pretty much the same thing as saying Bob Cousy or Johnny Unitas wouldn't be as good if they played in their respective leagues today as they do know. Or that Babe Ruth, if baseball allowed black players, probably wouldn't have had as much homeruns. CONTEXT. But they're still great players, and it's still a great much.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm actually convinced that Lesnar is the best worker in the company today, no joke.

Eight year absence and returns with a five star match ? Only BORK FUCKIN' LASER can pull that shit off.

:brock


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Yea, you don't know what I mean when I mention context. I'm not talking about the feud, I'm talking about how this match was wrestled in the 80s. Savage taking high risks then would not be high risks now. That's why we have to understand that, at the time, this WAS the greatest match of all-time, and they did things that were never seen before.
> 
> It's pretty much the same thing as saying Bob Cousy or Johnny Unitas wouldn't be as good if they played in their respective leagues today as they do know. Or that Babe Ruth, if baseball allowed black players, probably wouldn't have had as much homeruns. CONTEXT. But they're still great players, and it's still a great much.



There really isn't anything in that match that was never seen before. Like I said, it isn't a movefest and isn't liked for the moves in it. Even back then I wouldn't call it the greatest of all time. Slaughter/Sheik and probably 2-3 Backlund matches are better in WWF alone. Worldwide IDK if it's a top 5-10 for 1987.

Also I was sure I would be wrong about the feud thing but decided to type it anyway b/c of SHADDUP. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pretty decent match, better 'cos the Taker is in it, finish felt rather flat IMO though...


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

I'd say Savage/Steamboat is definitely a top 5 match of '87. Don't know if it'd be #1, but I'm not recalling a ton of stuff that necessarily has a better claim. All Japan wasn't all that good in '87, and most of the stuff that looked like it could be great on paper wound up being disappointing. New Japan has Fujiwara/Choshu and...IDK. I'm probably forgetting other NJ stuff, though. Lucha? Can't think of anything offhand. Can't think of any other WWF match that's fucking with it (closest is probably another Savage/Steamboat match, actually). Crockett had the Flair/Windham matches. Mid-South had Murdoch/Windham, but otherwise was in the midst of being swallowed up by Crockett. Memphis had the Lawler/Idol cage match. I'm honestly not convinced any of those matches bar Fujiwara/Choshu are better than Savage/Steamboat, and I say that as someone that had talked ad nauseum about how it wasn't all it was cracked up to be for years (before I watched the whole feud again and changed my mind).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Casas/Santo is all that springs to mind in terms of Lucha from '87 tbh. I'd put Flair/Windham Worldwide, Murdoch/Windham, Fujiwara/Choshu and Lawler/Idol matches ahead of Steamboat/Savage. Could see the argument against Lawler/Idol but I just love the angle, the payoff, the insane atmosphere and ingraned visual of Rich coming up from under the ring and the whole thing as a spectacle. Fujiwara/Choshu is arguably the best sub 15 minute match ever.

Can't remember much of Santo/Casas tbh outside of the actual match. Remember it being very good but would have to rewatch before judging it against Savage/Steamboat. I remember a Lawler/Dundee vs Midnight Express tag from 87 being excellent as well, but top 5 of '87 is probably just too far.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Rock - KOTR 1999

Good little match here, first time ive seen it in years and years tbh, two ref bumps in the space of the opening minute  Typical attitude era going all over the arena, with thref thinking ' fuck it, ill follow them' lol, HHH interferes and pedegree's The Rock but Taker retained the championship


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm actually convinced that Lesnar is the best worker in the company today, no joke.
> 
> Eight year absence and returns with a five star match ? Only BORK FUCKIN' LASER can pull that shit off.
> 
> :brock


WrestleMania 30: Brock Lesnar vs BORK LASER

GOAT match right there :brock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CM PUNK VS TRIPLE H VS BORK LASER

GOAT MATCH.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Wonder if they'll induct Brock into the HOF at some stage. His speech would sure as hell be....interesting to say the least. 

I GIVEZ NO FUKS BORK SMASSSSHHHHH!!!!!!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm actually convinced that Lesnar is the best worker in the company today, no joke.
> 
> Eight year absence and returns with a five star match ? Only BORK FUCKIN' LASER can pull that shit off.
> 
> :brock


I don't know about that. Here's the thing with Brock and his matches:

Against Cena, it was just a type of match we haven't seen in WWE in a long time if ever, and that's a truly vicious, bloody fight with one man getting absolutely dismantled. It was refreshing and awesome to see Cena take a beating, and believable in terms of who delivered it and how it was delivered. Everything in the match and leading to the match was just aligned properly to create an awesome atmosphere, a unique match for WWE today, and as said, watching Cena getting beaten to near death is awesome. That being said, Lesnar himself and his work in the match, wasn't what made the match, and take a backseat to everything I said above. That being said, of course he's a big part of the reason for the incredible atmosphere, and I'm not trying to discount stuff like licking Cena's blood off his hands and the sick dive that could've killed him, but as I said, I feel the overall awesomness of the match is down to the natural elements associated with a guy like Lesnar, and just the general uniqueness of the match that was booked, and not necessarily because of Lesnar's "workrate". 

That being said, I thought his workrate himself was better in the Summerslam match against HHH, which isn't half the match Lesnar/Cena was. It didn't have anywhere near the atmosphere Lesnar/Cena (not saying it wasn't a great atmosphere, but still), didn't have the brutality, and Brock had already lost by that point and had lost some of his "invincibleness", not to mention HHH getting the better of him on Raw 1000 in a straight-up, albeit quick, "fight". 

But I'm digressing from Lesnar as the best worker talk... I just can't put him above guys like Punk, Sheamus and Bryan who go out there, and can have much better matches on a weekly basis than Lesnar/HHH, without all the intangibles that match had that had little to nothing to do with being a great worker. Well, in my opinion anyway. Lesnar in 02-04 is a different story, and still to this day he has what could be argued as the biggest presence in the history of wrestling, if not one of the biggest. He has so many intangibles going for him, that in the case of a match like Cena where they take those intangibles and add in the brutality to go along with Lesnar's strengths and create a unique atmosphere, it works and makes a damn near classic. In the case of HHH's match, it just didn't work the same imo, partially though because of the result of Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock definitely has my favourite "style" of wrestling right now, despite only having 2 matches lol. He really doesn't come across as a wrestler, which is exactly what they want, and I love it. Like he said, he's not a superstar, he's an ASS KICKER and watching him beat the fuck out of someone or try to snap their arm makes me :mark:. Can't wait to see who he faces next. I avoid spoilers so I don't know if there has been talks of his WM opponent or not. I'll find out when the world finds out on TV .

Wouldn't call him the best worker though. Not at all. For one, hard to base such a thing on just TWO matches. And if we're gonna call someone a top worker based on so little matches every year, Undertaker wins . Plus we have some tremendous workers on the roster, who wrestle all the time. Punk, Bryan and Sheamus definitely top the list right now. Jericho can join them if he stays around a little longer no doubt. Show is hugely underrated as a worker too. HENRY being back now lets him join the conversation. Christian should (hopefully) be back soon too. Probably a few others I'm forgetting.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Casas/Santo is all that springs to mind in terms of Lucha from '87 tbh. I'd put Flair/Windham Worldwide, Murdoch/Windham, Fujiwara/Choshu and Lawler/Idol matches ahead of Steamboat/Savage. Could see the argument against Lawler/Idol but I just love the angle, the payoff, the insane atmosphere and ingraned visual of Rich coming up from under the ring and the whole thing as a spectacle. Fujiwara/Choshu is arguably the best sub 15 minute match ever.
> 
> Can't remember much of Santo/Casas tbh outside of the actual match. Remember it being very good but would have to rewatch before judging it against Savage/Steamboat. I remember a Lawler/Dundee vs Midnight Express tag from 87 being excellent as well, but top 5 of '87 is probably just too far.


Aw fuck, forgot about Santo/Casas. Legit haven't seen that in about 8 years, but I don't doubt it would hold up (I'll probs hold off until the lucha 80s set drops). 

I'd probably say Fujiwara/Choshu is the best sub-15 minute match ever. Savage/Steamboat was sub-15 minutes, right? So yeah, Fujiwara/Choshu >>>>

Rest of them...honestly, if pressed, I'd probably take Savage/Steamboat. Watching the whole feud and seeing it in proper context a few years ago (man, it's crazy that we started that WWF/E poll almost 4 years ago) really brought me around to it. I don't know if I'd go quite as far as saying it's the best WWF match of the 80s, but I'd certainly have it top 5. I wouldn't have had it top 20 before.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It was more me marking out for the sake of being a mark that I said that than anything else. I actually do believe that if full-time Lesnar would be the absolute best though, seeing as how I've seen maybe one actual BAD Lesnar match that had no entertainment value for me, and it looks like he's much of the same presence he was in those days. Like *CAL* said, he style is just awesome and it would also be my favorite style currently.

@ *RAWK* , I understand where you're coming from, but I'm a guy who would put Triple H/Lesnar as perhaps the greatest MAIN EVENT (or top 3) in Summerslam history so obviously I'm gonna say Brock was just fucking AWESOME in that just like he had the greatest heel control segment ever @ Extreme Rules. That match was just GODLY.

Just watched Austin-Bret from Mania XIII, then I watched the Chicago Street Fight... What a fucking fun match that was for sure. Again, not giving anything away but......... SID-TAKER IS NEXT, I always thought this match was pretty DECE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rawk's post is pretty spot on.

BROCK is definitely my favorite at the moment, just as he was after the dismantling of Cena almost a year ago. There's just something entirely different about him that puts him in a class all his own. Even his interaction with Miz this past Monday night. Tossing furniture at Miz's face? Who else does that? The guy is a legit freak. It's awesome TV whenever he's involved. I'd watch a Lesnar match over that of anyone on the current roster. Uniqueness + entertainment = BROCK.

As for favorite workers, I'll still go with Bryan. I used to think Sheamus sucked until about a year ago. The guy is a true workhorse and has proven he can put on a solid match with just about anyone.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOD of CUNT said:


> Aw fuck, forgot about Santo/Casas. Legit haven't seen that in about 8 years, but I don't doubt it would hold up (I'll probs hold off until the lucha 80s set drops).
> 
> I'd probably say Fujiwara/Choshu is the best sub-15 minute match ever. Savage/Steamboat was sub-15 minutes, right? So yeah, Fujiwara/Choshu >>>>
> 
> Rest of them...honestly, if pressed, I'd probably take Savage/Steamboat. Watching the whole feud and seeing it in proper context a few years ago (man, it's crazy that we started that WWF/E poll almost 4 years ago) really brought me around to it. I don't know if I'd go quite as far as saying it's the best WWF match of the 80s, but I'd certainly have it top 5. I wouldn't have had it top 20 before.


14.35 according to wiki, but yeah its hard to think of a sub 15 minute match that's better. Volk Han/Tamura is extradordinary, but that's comparing apples and oranges. Both very different yet brilliant matches. Funaki/Nakano is a personal favourite, but I'd put it below both of those in terms of bell to bell work. 

I'll have to try and watch the entire feud then in order to get a better perspective. I'd have Slaughter/Sheik Boot Camp as the best WWF match of the 80s, just everything I want in pro wrestling encapsulated in a great angle, nuclear heat and brilliant work from both men. I adore Backlund/Slaughter in the cage from '81, but unsure if I'd have it ahead of Savage/Steamboat. There's a Backlund/Adonis match from '82 I believe which gets strong praise, but drawing a blank on any other match bar Slaughter/Patterson Alley Fight that sticks out.

Windham/Flair or Windham/Murdoch would be the top two of those matches for me. Will never tire of Windham/Flair as a pairing with the rookie phenom vs resilient champion dynamic always producing a gripping story with great pacing, transitions and crowd heat. Murdoch/Windham was the first Dick match I ever saw and got me immediately hooked on him from there on. Love how they progressively tire and sell the exhaustion and physical endurance as well as all the little touches Murdoch brings to the match via the theatrical selling or doing things no-one else would think to do. Can definitely see the argument in favour of Savage/Steamboat though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I was saying who the best workers are in the company right now I'd probably put Punk and Bryan in a class of their own, with the likes of Sheamus, Jericho, Show, Henry, and Cena below that level.

WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH CENA LATELY THOUGH ? Ever since Night of Champions with Punk he's been ridiculously inconsistent in the ring.. AS A MATTER OF FACT he's been like that since the Extreme Rules match with Brock, what the hell is up with that ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena has been like Orton last year. Just didn't have much reason to care for the most part since he was stuck with shit ever since Extreme Rules. Really hope both pick things up where they left off in 2011 this year.

I wish Big Show would win the title at EC (as much as I'm liking Del Rio right now) and then have Orton win the EC itself. Then they go for the first time one-on-one at PPV. Has potential to be great. And Rock/Cena II, I'm not nearly as dismissive of it as others are.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> 14.35 according to wiki, but yeah its hard to think of a sub 15 minute match that's better. Volk Han/Tamura is extradordinary, but that's comparing apples and oranges. Both very different yet brilliant matches. Funaki/Nakano is a personal favourite, but I'd put it below both of those in terms of bell to bell work.
> 
> I'll have to try and watch the entire feud then in order to get a better perspective. I'd have Slaughter/Sheik Boot Camp as the best WWF match of the 80s, just everything I want in pro wrestling encapsulated in a great angle, nuclear heat and brilliant work from both men. I adore Backlund/Slaughter in the cage from '81, but unsure if I'd have it ahead of Savage/Steamboat. There's a Backlund/Adonis match from '82 I believe which gets strong praise, but drawing a blank on any other match bar Slaughter/Patterson Alley Fight that sticks out.
> 
> Windham/Flair or Windham/Murdoch would be the top two of those matches for me. Will never tire of Windham/Flair as a pairing with the rookie phenom vs resilient champion dynamic always producing a gripping story with great pacing, transitions and crowd heat. Murdoch/Windham was the first Dick match I ever saw and got me immediately hooked on him from there on. Love how they progressively tire and sell the exhaustion and physical endurance as well as all the little touches Murdoch brings to the match via the theatrical selling or doing things no-one else would think to do. Can definitely see the argument in favour of Savage/Steamboat though.


The second Han/Tamura is probably an all-time top 30 match to me. Fujiwara/Choshu is top 20. 

Watching Flair/Taylor today was the first time I've watched a single Ric Flair match in a year, and I had no idea how I'd feel about it after being so burned out on him after the WCW poll. I loved it, but I'm really not sure how much I'll dig the Flair matches I've seen a bunch of times whenever I next re-watch them. Still have no interest in watching a Flair/Steamboat match in the near future. I haven't seen Flair/Windham as many times as Flair/Steamboat (not a specific match between Flair and Steamboat or Flair and Windham; just generally speaking), but I've seen those matches more than a few times...I'm not sure I want to watch THEM again any time soon, either. 

I need to watch Murdoch/Windham again.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I think we've discussed in the past that as great as Flair's best matches are, you can only watch them so many times and appreciate their lasting effect before you want to go searching for that Flair match you've not seen and which turns out to be maybe a top 15 of his career. I'm far more interested watching the Jake Roberts, Wahoo McDaniel, Koko Ware, Ricky Morton, Brian Pillman and Luger matches and trying to assess how good they are then watching the Flair/Steamboat quintet from '89 in order to rank them. You know barring a real alteration in tastes that Flair's peak will do well to ever drastically fall off, so trying to find obscure matches and performances that add to his already impressive dossier becomes a far more inviting prospect than simply rewatching the classics.

Not sure what stuck out to me as the best thing Murdoch did in the '87 match. Either the floppy leg selling off of a Windham punch combo or trying to climb the turnbuckle and nearly collapsing because he's spent after wrestling nearly 40 minutes.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah, I've said a thing or six million about that in the past (re: Flair).


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I hadn't seen fujiwara/choshu in a long time so I just watched it again and it blew my mind. That is the perfect sub 15 minute match, emotional, violent as can be, and a brilliant story.

On Lesnar talk, Lesnar's such a freak and uniquely gifted athlete with a great wrestling mind to go with it that if he had stayed in the WWE for all these years he could have be in the conversation of one of the top 10-15 american workers of all time. I love lesnar's style of wrestling right now, he just has a special aura about him that not many wrestlers have ever had. Brock's UFC days just adds to that aura. 

I still can't get over MARK HENRY being back and looking like he's going to be immediately thrust into the main event where he deserves to be. Hall of Pain WHC title run again please :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> I don't know about that. Here's the thing with Brock and his matches:
> 
> Against Cena, it was just a type of match we haven't seen in WWE in a long time if ever, and that's a truly vicious, bloody fight with one man getting absolutely dismantled. It was refreshing and awesome to see Cena take a beating, and believable in terms of who delivered it and how it was delivered. Everything in the match and leading to the match was just aligned properly to create an awesome atmosphere, a unique match for WWE today, and as said, watching Cena getting beaten to near death is awesome. That being said, Lesnar himself and his work in the match, wasn't what made the match, and take a backseat to everything I said above. That being said, of course he's a big part of the reason for the incredible atmosphere, and I'm not trying to discount stuff like licking Cena's blood off his hands and the sick dive that could've killed him, but as I said, I feel the overall awesomness of the match is down to the natural elements associated with a guy like Lesnar, and just the general uniqueness of the match that was booked, and not necessarily because of Lesnar's "workrate".
> 
> ...


Knocked it out of the park. It's the intangibles of Brock that draws me to his matches these days more than his workrate, style of matches, etc. Nothing wrong with those types of guys, but I'm more of " 'rasslin" type of guy. Give me an old school formula of story, drama, and of course, DAT WORKRATE.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

GOD of CUNT said:


> I'd say Savage/Steamboat is definitely a top 5 match of '87. Don't know if it'd be #1, but I'm not recalling a ton of stuff that necessarily has a better claim. All Japan wasn't all that good in '87, and most of the stuff that looked like it could be great on paper wound up being disappointing. New Japan has Fujiwara/Choshu and...IDK. I'm probably forgetting other NJ stuff, though. Lucha? Can't think of anything offhand. Can't think of any other WWF match that's fucking with it (closest is probably another Savage/Steamboat match, actually). Crockett had the Flair/Windham matches. Mid-South had Murdoch/Windham, but otherwise was in the midst of being swallowed up by Crockett. Memphis had the Lawler/Idol cage match. I'm honestly not convinced any of those matches bar Fujiwara/Choshu are better than Savage/Steamboat, and I say that as someone that had talked ad nauseum about how it wasn't all it was cracked up to be for years (before I watched the whole feud again and changed my mind).


Santo/Casas, Bockwinkel/Hennig and the first WarGames sprung to mind. I said 'IDK if it's top 5-10', which is a stretch because looking at it on paper I'm convinced it's top ten, but I think I'd take Santo/Casas, a Flair/Windham (whichever the best one is....IDR), Murdoch/Windham, and Fujiwara/Choshu over it. So yeah, that's four.....I guess it's top 5 fo me? I'd have to watch everything and actually think about it (which I ain't doing).

I guess there's only a couple there I think are DEFINITELY better, but I was never sure when saying the original statement anyway.  Goddamn...I think every match I've mentioned here has an actual shot at the #1 spot if I were doing a top matches of 87.

I still think Han v Tamura 9/26/97 is the best sub-fifteen minute match ever. Shit....it might be sub-ten minutes.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Not sure what stuck out to me as the best thing Murdoch did in the '87 match. Either the floppy leg selling off of a Windham punch combo or trying to climb the turnbuckle and nearly collapsing because he's spent after wrestling nearly 40 minutes.


Using the title belt almost like a whip into Windham's face.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I decided to start a Smackdown 2006 project since A) I've seen this year for Smackdown pimped in this thread on multiple occasions and 2) My WWF 2000 project is boring me since outside of a few matches and some FOLEY promos, it's been utter shite. I assume it gets better as the year progresses, but January 2000 isn't that good outside of the obvious matches. I could see how most could enjoy while watching it live back in the day but when it comes to match quality, I prefer modern day WWE to Attitude Era WWF everyday of the week. I've seen some matches on Raw is War and Smackdown that could have ended up being good, but they were cut short and never got more than three minutes. Anyway...

*JBL vs. Matt Hardy (Falls Count Anywhere) - January 6th, 2006*
This match was fine for the six minutes or so that it received. Any brawl involving JBL is (mostly) good and Matt Hardy is fine at times as a worker. JBL cuts a promo before the match and makes fun of Matt Hardy for being a huge GEEK. These two beat up each other throughout the course of match, with the announce table breaking about two-three minutes into the match. JBL kills Hardy with a stiff chair shot across the back, which I thoroughly enjoyed. They eventually brawl up to JBL's limo, where Matt Hardy hits JBL in the head with a trash can lid about six times before setting up a ladder next to the limo to presumably hit a fallen JBL with a leg drop. JBL's image consultant, Jillian Hall, grabs Hardy's leg and holds him until JBL can recover and hit Hardy in with a trash can twice before Hardy crashes onto the hood of the limo, where JBL picks up the win. I might include this on the "Best of Smackdown 2006" comp I might make for myself when I finish this project just because JBL is probably my all time favorite wrestler.
*Rating: ***

*Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - January 6th, 2006
*This match only received about eight minutes of TV time before it ended but those eight minutes we received were pretty damn good before the terrible finish. I understand that they didn't want Orton to take the clean loss going into Match 7 next week on Smackdown, but Orlando Jordan of all people running in, stealing Booker T's crutch, and hitting Benoit with it to cause the DQ just royally sucked. We have match seven coming up on the January 13th edition of Smackdown and from what I've heard, it's pretty damn good so I'm pretty hyped. It's a damn shame that this match ended the way it did and didn't get about three to five more minutes, as it could have ended up being damn good in its own right.
*Rating: **3/4
*
*MNM vs. Batista and Rey Mysterio (Steel Cage) - January 6th, 2006
*This match looks like it would be decent on paper, but the end result is pretty disappointing. We have some decent spots with MNM killing Mysterio by catapulting him into the steel cage and Mysterio earlier being back-dropped into the steel as well. Mysterio also leaped off the top of the cage and landed on Nitro (I think) for a near fall. Outside of those spots, this match was, in the words of the great VINNY, "a match." The match took a turn from being average to below average when Mark Henry came down to the ring and it seemed to take him forever to enter the cage. There was nothing really AWFUL about this match, but nothing GOOD either. I haven't seen the other matches that these two teams had back in 2005 since they fired aired on UPN so I don't remember if they were any good or not. If they're as good as this match though, I don't think it would be worth it to dig them up.
*Rating: *1/2 *


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did you watch Kid Kash v THE JUICE? It rules.

The Benoit/Orton the next week is fantastic. Probably a top five Orton singles.

That cage match was dogshit and the worst thing I can remember Rey Mysterio doing in WWE.

A "best of 2006 SmackDown" comp would honestly be pretty huge. I think I'm somewhere near SummerSlam so far, and I could seriously say there's at LEAST two matches every week that are worth adding to a comp like that. I guess if you set the bar higher it'd mean fewer matches, but there is just SOOO much shit that's really worth checking out. Honestly though it could easily amount to 100+ matches.



GOON The Legend said:


> and Matt Hardy is fine at times as a worker.


(N) 

He's fucking awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/Orton have their best non-PPV match on the January 27th SD episode. 13/1 is pretty good too, though. And on 20/1, Orton manages to get a decent match out of Orlando Jordan.

Unfortunately for me, 06 is about to go down in quality from SD since the draft is coming up soon which means no more Orton or Angle and Benoit is out for five months. Plus Great Khali debuting is nothing good.

Random ratings:
Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton (SD 7/4/06) - ★★★★¼
Undertaker vs Chris Jericho (SD 13/11/09) - ★★½
Chris Benoit vs Jericho (SummerSlam 00) - ★★★★


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Nah, I didn't watch the Kash/JUICE match, but it was only because I just assumed it was going to be just a run of the mill Cruserweight match where nothing really happens. Since you recommend it though, I'll give it a watch after I finish match seven of Orton/Benoit and the Battle Royal for the World Heavyweight Championship. I don't have much interest in people like Kid Kash and Juvi and I'm going to skip around and only watch the stuff involving the people I know either A) Deliver in the ring and/or B) I care about. I'm doing this so I don't lose interest in the project. If I miss anything be sure to let me know and I'll go back and watch it.

I haven't watched 2006 Smackdown since it first aired and seeing as I was about 12 at the time it first aired, I didn't get the full effect of it obviously. I'm showing my age when I say that these 2006 Smackdown's are going to be a huge nostalgia trip for me lol.

In regards to this project, I'm only going to watch the TV shows and not the Pay Per Views, even though it would make sense to include them. The reason I'm doing this is only to save hard drive room and nothing else. I have a p. small hard drive on my computer so I don't have a lot of room to store a bunch of pro graps on it. I'll probably just go into Movie Maker and make separate clips for the matches I enjoy and then delete the rest of the episode.

Having only 2GB of memory on your computer is terrible, by the way. Not only does it take Movie Maker forever to create the "movie", but it's hard to do anything else while it's making it. I tried Sony Vegas and it's even slower than Movie Maker, if that is believable. I highly regret not paying the extra $100 or so to get a computer with 4GB of memory but hey, I'm a poor college student so w/e.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Mysterio-Orton is SO good but I might actually prefer their NWO match believe it or not. Their Smackdown match seems to have the MOVEZ and the excitement but I'll be damned if Orton's character work in the NWO match is some of the best he ever did for sure.

Smackdown : **** 3/4*
No Way Out : ******

If I were comparing I'd probably go with Smackdown 2003 > Smackdown 2006 just because 2003 had BROCK and since BROCK is my guy I'm obviously gonna pimp that shit out. 2006 had the likes of Finlay, Regal, Benoit, etc though so I can see a case being made either way for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/2 Rey/Orton NWO
***3/4 Rey/Orton SD

I love me some SD 06. Was a few years ago now when I did my SD 06 project but I still remember soooo much about it. FINLAY is the god of 2006 in WWE. GOD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched TAKER-SID to finish off Mania XIII, and I'm not going to say anything besides this ; WHO HAD THE BRILLIANT FUCKING IDEA FOR THESE TWO TO HAVE A MATCH THIS LONG ? It had some pretty good spots and decent psychology at times but DAMN this should have been like 11-13 minutes and much faster. FUCK.

I'll be damned if I don't enjoy a Wrestlemania ending with Taker holding the belt though, that shit just feels right for sure. ON TO A PERSONAL FAVORITE MANIA (XIV) HERE WE GO!


EDIT : YEAH SO IT SEEMS AS IF MY FUCKING ANTHOLOGY SET DOESN'T HAVE WRESTLEMANIA 14 INCLUDED. WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. FUCK..... Sooo........ Anybody have a cheap bootleg copy (region 1 or region free) that I can get my hands on ?   

Looks like I'm gonna have to move on to XV ..... My night has officially been ruined.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Unfortunately for me, 06 is about to go down in quality from SD since the draft is coming up soon which means no more Orton or Angle and Benoit is out for five months. Plus Great Khali debuting is nothing good.


Yeah, when watching it looked bleak. Benoit, Henry and Orton were taking time off, MNM broke up, Angle was having what I seriously think is close to his peak run and moved to ECW, JBL retires....you lose a lot of things and gain a lot of *other* things (Khali, Batista returns, Paul Burchill making William Regal dress in drag, the Miz) but honestly it's surprising how well it all stays together. I gained a new appreciation for London and Kendrick during that time.



GOON The Legend said:


> Nah, I didn't watch the Kash/JUICE match, but it was only because I just assumed it was going to be just a run of the mill Cruserweight match where nothing really happens. Since you recommend it though, I'll give it a watch after I finish match seven of Orton/Benoit and the Battle Royal for the World Heavyweight Championship.
> 
> In regards to this project, I'm only going to watch the TV shows and not the Pay Per Views, even though it would make sense to include them. The reason I'm doing this is only to save hard drive room and nothing else. I have a p. small hard drive on my computer so I don't have a lot of room to store a bunch of pro graps on it. I'll probably just go into Movie Maker and make separate clips for the matches I enjoy and then delete the rest of the episode.


JUVI is fucking great. That match is actually a pretty unique cruiser match where Kash works the leg and Juvi has to build his way upwards. Definitely match of the night for that show.

I burnt every episode onto disc, even before I watched them. Probably not the BEST idea, but I have them all and can watch them whenever I want to. Plus if I didn't want to watch a divas/Miz thing or the Boogeyman I could just lean on fast-forward. I fit two episodes onto a disc (so I needed around 25 discs) and a 25 pack of discs costs around $12. Not a bad price for all that FINLAY ('n' those other guys I guess). I essentially paid $12 for the best season of SmackDown. (Y)


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - January 13th, 2006
*This was the seventh and final match in the United States Championship Series between Chris Benoit and Booker T, although Randy Orton became Booker T's substitute after Armageddon because of Booker's injury. As soon as I finished watching the match, the first thing that came to mind was that this was one of best TV matches that I've watched in quite a long time. Both Benoit and Orton worked hard in this match and they had nearly twenty minutes to showcase what they're capable of. Neither man had control for a long time in this match, which is a nice change of pace when it comes to most WWE matches where the heel has a long control stretch that sometimes become boring. My only real complaint about this match was the finish, although I loved Orton's shocked expression when Nick Patrick's hand slapped the mat for the third time. This is easily one of the best matches of Randy Orton's career and probably will end up being one of the best matches on Friday Night Smackdown in the year 2006.
*Rating: ****
*
*20 Man Battle Royal for the World Heavyweight Championship - January 13th, 2006
*I don't remember enjoying a TV Battle Royal as much as I enjoyed this Battle Royal here. Mark Henry was a beast in this match, as he just dominated the vast majority of the match and even made powerhouses like the BATHTURD (Lashley for those who aren't in the know~!) look like complete GEEKS in comparison to him. Henry also press-slammed Angle through the announce table during the match, which took Angle out of the match until the very end. The confrontation between Henry and Mysterio was well-done and entertaining. Mysterio is just so awesome when it comes to facing larger guys. The final showdown between Angle and Henry was fine, although the Mysterio/Henry showdown was much better and entertaining. It's a damn shame they didn't put the belt on MIZARK here, though.
*Rating: ***1/2
*
*Kid Kash vs. Juvi - January 6th, 2006
*YEAH1993 was right when he said that this was a pretty damn good match. It went on for about six minutes but it felt like three, as it just flew by due to how entertaining it was. The story of the match was Juvi's knee, which he injured on his flip to the outside of the ring onto Kid Kash. This was better than what I remembered most Cruserweight matches being in the WWE (although I don't remember much from this time period so take that last comment with a grain of salt). Mr. Kennedy~! was on commentary as well for this match and he wasn't totally awful, which is a plus as well, I guess. This is a fine little match here.
*Rating: ****


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Rey/Orton from SD 4/7/06 holds a special place in my heart, my first and so far only TV taping.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Finlay vs. Matt Hardy - January 20th, 2006
*This match marks the debut of the man who plays a central role in the greatness that is allegedly Smackdown in 2006. This match was more of a fight than an actual wrestling match and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Finlay's offense was something that most haven't seen in the WWE, especially when Finlay caught Matt Hardy in between the ring apron and ring and he proceeded to beat the hell out of him. This was a very effective debut for Finlay, as it immediately established him as someone who (obviously) loves to fight (and not because he mentions it in his theme song) and someone who only wants to hurt his opponent. This is going to awesome.
*Rating: **1/2*

*Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio - January 20th, 2006
*Mysterio starts off the match by using his speed in an attempt to wear down Henry and it seems to work at first, as Mysterio has Henry on the ropes as the match went to a commercial break. The entire match between these two was pretty good, as Henry was awesome yet again as a big man such as when he killed Mysterio with what looked to be a clothesline. Every chance Rey got he went on the attack to the legs of Mark Henry and that strategy finally succeeded, as he got Henry down to the point where he hit three straight 619s on the MIZARK~! The finish to this match is awesome as well, where Henry just sits up to kick out of the frog splash, rolls over, stands up, and then plants Mysterio with the World's Strongest Slam. 
*Rating: ****

*Randy Orton vs. Orlando Jordan - January 20th, 2006
*I know a near ten minute match between Randy Orton and Orlando Jordan doesn't sound too appealing and trust me, I didn't want to watch it either. However, Choke2Death mentioned something about this match a couple of posts back and how Orton carried Orlando Jordan to a decent match so I decided to watch it. Now, this match wasn't good by any stretch, but it was much better than it ever had business of being, especially with it clocking in at nearly ten minutes. The fact that this match didn't put me to sleep, especially at nearly 11:30 PM, is an added bonus. Orton "snaps" during the match when Jordan gets his foot on the rope to break up a pinfall and Orton's aggressiveness nearly costs him the match. This match is worth a watch if you ever need proof of Orlando Jordan having a 10+ minute singles match that didn't completely suck. I might include this on the comp just because of how shocked I was that it wasn't awful.
*Rating: ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Henry-Mysterio match when Mysterio is champ is pretty awesome IIRC, or is it the one that you just mentioned ? DAMN, I can't fucking remember. 

All I know is that Taker-Angle from Smackdown that year is probably the best Television match from that point up until....... Well, there hasn't been a better one since... MAYBE Punk-Hardy in the cage is just as good.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I think I know what match you're referring too. I don't remember the exact month of when it took place (I want to say sometime in June but I'm not sure). I remember enjoying it as a kid though so I can't wait to get to that match.

The one I just watched/reviewed took place about nine days before the Royal Rumble and the match determined who was going to to be the #1 Contender for the World Heavyweight Championship.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That match was in the build up to Mysterio-JBL @ Judgment Day 06, where JBL would basically get a different monster every week to come destroy Rey so that he would be depleted going into their title match (first HENRY which was awesome, than KHALI which Mysterio made decent, and finally Kane on MAY NINETEENTH, and anybody who was watching around that time knows exactly how insane that was). 

I love JBL and Mysterio's chemistry. Huge fan of the No Mercy 2005 match and a HUGEEEE fan of their Judgment Day 2006 match, they just worked so splendidly together for some reason, one of Layfield's best opponents. FUCK I love JBL at times.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

JBL was one of those workers who, if he had the right opponent, could end up producing a damn good match. JBL is personally my favorite wrestler of all time because A) He was my _first_ real favorite wrestler as a child and B) his promos were top notch. It's a damn shame that they started his singles push so late into his career. The JBL character was fantastic once it started, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hated JBL as a mark back in 2004/2005 but as I got older I started really loving his work and how he would just incite a crowd like no other, the guy is just a naturally great character worker in the JBL persona.

His first two years had some really awesome stuff like the OMFGEPIC JD match with Eddie and subsequent rematches, his matches with Rey, Taker, Booker, Show (such an underrated match, an all time great cage match), Cena @ JD, No Holds Barred w/ Batista (another underrated encounter), Matt Hardy (enjoyed the Armageddon match), and the like. FUCK THE WWE AND MAKING HIM JOB TO THE BOOGEYMAN, UGH.

He should have gotten another world title reign sometime between 2008-2009 though, even if he was just a transitional champion, guy deserved to go out with a little better than an IC title match. HOW he went out though was perfect.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> That match was in the build up to Mysterio-JBL @ Judgment Day 06, where JBL would basically get a different monster every week to come destroy Rey so that he would be depleted going into their title match (first HENRY which was awesome, than KHALI which Mysterio made decent, and finally Kane on MAY NINETEENTH, and anybody who was watching around that time knows exactly how insane that was).
> 
> I love JBL and Mysterio's chemistry. Huge fan of the No Mercy 2005 match and a HUGEEEE fan of their Judgment Day 2006 match, they just worked so splendidly together for some reason, one of Layfield's best opponents. FUCK I love JBL at times.


Then they decide to ruin their WM25 match by giving it such a short timeframe, It could have made the car wreck of WM25 (excluding the Taker/HBK match) not seem as bad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't care HOW bad Wrestlemania XXV may be. There is no fucking chance in hell that it will be close to this piece of dogshit called Wrestlemania XV that I'm watching now. Five matches in and I haven't seen a match reach two stars yet, what a horrible, horrible show honestly. I'm optimistic about Rock-Austin, but I still have Sable-Tori and Taker-Boss Man in the cell to watch, OH WHAT JOY.

Wrestlemania XXV had Jericho-Legends , Edge-Show-Cena , Money in the Bank , and obviously HBK-Taker, that alone should put it over this horrendous show so far. Who knows though, perhaps when I rewatch I'll give everything on XXV a DUD, stranger things have happened so far in this Wrestlemania project.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Jericho/Steamboat :mark: 

Wrestlemania XV is horrendous I watched it 2 nights ago, Rock/Austin surprisingly held up ok though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I for sure fucking hope Rock-Austin is atleast **** 1/2* , because if it isn't I'm going to have to resort to heavy alcoholism to get my mind off of how retarded this show is. Six matches (one of the being a Triple H match) in and there hasn't been fucking shit all on this horrendous card. Sable-Tori... WHAT IS THIS SHIT ?

I know I said I wasn't going to reveal anything, but it doesn't take a fucking genius to see that most of Wrestlemania XV = SHIT ON A FUCKING STICK. I mean, I just saw a TRIPLE H MATCH that I didn't like.

:jpl .... NO


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I can't count the amount of times I almost feel asleep while watching WM XV, total one match show and that's saying something when Rock/Austin was decent/good at best. 

Wrestlemania 19 time for me baby, HBK/Jericho, Rock/Austin 3, Brock/Angle this is where it's at :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lucky you.

I apparently don't have a copy of Wrestlemania XIV , so it looks like I'm gonna have to download and watch all the matches I don't own on DVD (out of the 8 matches, I own the three best of them so that's pretty awesome) either tomorrow or the next day. I'm finishing XV in one sitting because I just can't wait to have this over with to be honest. Fuck it, I might even watch those XIV matches I don't own tonight so therefore I can actually look FORWARD to some good matches tomorrow.

Everything on XIX is great.... Rey-Hardy , Taker-Show/Albert , Hogan/Vince , Trips/Booker ...... DAMNIT.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Aww really, that's crap WM XIV was such an easy watch especially compared to the manias surrounding it. Even though maybe only 1 match on the card might make my top 29.

Rey/Hardy first up, can't wait I frequently watch WM 19 when I have nothing to do, top 5 favourite pay per view ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd probably have it ranked right now as the BEST WWF/WWE PPV ever to be honest, probably not my favorite but definitely the best. HOW WILL IT HOLD UP ?!?!?!

Taker-Boss man is up next, OH FUCKING JOY. :heyman


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Summerslam 2002 for me for best PPV ever, however it's my favourite ever also so that helps, Wm 19 could be considered 1A.

Rey/Hardy :mark: was as awesome as last watch. 

Your making my watch so much better knowing I'm watching possibly the greatest mania ever, while your floundering with one of the worst manias ever


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Working my way through the Elimination Chamber matches at the moment. Most are solid but only have two going over the **** mark as I go into 2009.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Macho Madness: The Ultimate Randy Savage Collection

I've had this DVD for far too long to never have watched it. 


*Randy "Macho Man" Savage vs. Rick Mcgraw *

I loved the start to this as we see Savage come out with no music and he just talks and yells at everyone for a few minutes before the match started. He mostly talked about how great he was but the amount of stalling and arrogance got him heat with the crowd before he even locked up. In fact within 3 minutes of walking into MSG Savage had a few people in the crowd throwing garbage at him. I wasn't really a big fan of the match but it served it's purpose well. Savage walked out there unknown and had to get himself over. He did just that and got in some of his moves. I was surprised that this wasn't a total squash and I was shocked at how the crowd popped for Mcgraw's limited offense. I would imagine this was a really successful debut for the time. Also I can now say I've seen Rick Mcgraw wrestle... 
**3/4
*
*
Randy Savage w/Elizabeth vs. Ricky Steamboat*

Kind of a weird match I thought. Steamboat gets in a ton of offense all throughout the match. These forums would explode if a heel got in such little offense in a match and then had t cheat to win. This a an early encounter between these guys and he chemistry was there right from the start. From bell to bell this was easy to watch as they kept a pretty incredible pace for a 1986 match in the WWF. That being said there were some little things about the match that had me confused. At times it almost seemed like Ricky was playing a heel because he got in some pretty lengthy control segments. He didn't seem like a face really. Savage cheating was enough to make it clear who the heel was but I can't say that Ricky really made himself look like a babyface. 

There was also some good arm work early on from Ricky Steamboat that was abandoned later on in the match until the very end when Savage did some brilliant cheating that involved the "injured" arm. In some aspects I would almost say this reminded me of an indy match as they started with some mat work, abandoned it, started hitting bigger moves later on, and then we saw the finish.
*****

_
WWF Championship Match_:
*Randy Savage w/Elizabeth vs. Hulk Hogan(c)*

This was 5 months after Savage debuted and he went from no reaction in is first match to getting incredible heat from the crowd. Put him in the ring with the biggest babyface in the company and the atmosphere was perfect for these guys. I really enjoyed the match with Hogan being, well, Hogan and Savage being the guy that you just want to see get beat p by Hogan. And an ass kicking Savage took. The crowd seemed to enjoy it and I loved watching Savage make Hogan look good by selling so well. 

The ending was shocking and even though Savage didn't walk away with the belt but Savage went into MSG and beat Hogan in the main event (by count out). I loved the heel/face dynamic and it really made this match fun to watch.
*****

_
Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Randy Savge w/Elizabeth vs. Tito Santana(c)*

This was the same basic concept as all of the other matches on this DVD and the finish was the exact same thing as the Steamboat match. It was still fun and easy to watch though with great pacing and an easy to understand story. I don't need to go into great detail though as I think I could literally just cut and paste the Steamboat review and it would be the same thing. It's practically the same match. 
*****

_
Intercontinental Chapionship Match:_
*Randy Savage(c) w/Elizabeth vs. Bruno Samartino* 

This was very short but it was a lot of fun. I didn't expect Bruno to be able to have a match this good at this point in his career. I've seen him wrestle before and I didn't enjoy his work very much at all. Well this was the classic chicken shit heel against the aging hero. It worked, the crowd went "BANANAS!" whenever Bruno got in his offense and Savage's antics seemed to really piss off the crowd and Bruno. 
***3/4 
*
_
Wrestlemania III_
_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Randy Savage(c) w/Elizabeth vs. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat w/George "The Animal" Steele
*
I'm really not sure why this would be considered one of the greatest matches ever. Not that this wasn't incredible but I don't a 5* match here or anything close to it really. There was honestly too much bullshit in the match that took away from the awesome ring work that this match has. What bothered me the most was the fact that Savage, the heel, had the match won cleanly but the ref was down. The ending just really annoyed me and hurt what was a near perfect match. 

Now it's time to be positive. This was just a great performance by both guys. For the first part of the match Savage was in control and you just knew there was a big comeback close and ou were left wondering if Savage was going to be able to hold off the Dragon. Well obviously we got to see the comeback and Steamboat being on the cusp of victory for long and Savage trying to hang on was fantastic. This had the set up for what should have been a fantastic and memorable ending. We didn't get that. I loved the trip that this match took me on even though the destination wasn't what it should have been. 
*****1/4*


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*The Honky Tonk Man(c) w/Jimmy Hart and Peggy Sue vs. Randy Savage w/Elizabeth*

I was happy to see Savage playing a face for the first time on the DVD. There wasn't much too this match and I'm really not sure why it was on the DVD other than the fact that this got a great TV rating when it aired. The crowd loved Savage and there was a really cool dynamic between Elizabeth and the Honky Tonk Man. The crowd was pretty great as well. Other than that this was just a standard TV match where the heel champion managed to get away with the title. This time though Savage wasn't the champion. 
***1/4*

_
Wrestlemania IV_
_WWF Championship Match:_
*Ted Dibiase w/Andre the Giant vs. Randy Savage w/Elizabeth and Hulk Hogan*

As big of a moment this is for Savage this match left a lot to be desired. The first thing that was so frustrating was that this match was more focused on Hogan and Andre than the guys in the match. Hogan was a late arrival and only showed up to counteract Andre getting involved on a few occasions. People were chanting for Hogan during the main event and you simply can't have that in such a high profile match. Now for something that really pissed me off. Dibiase had the Million Dollar Dream locked in and when the ref was looking away Hogan got in the ring and hit Dibiase with a chair. Savage hit the elbow and that the end of it. Hogan and Savage blatantly cheated to win. There's almost nothing positive that I have to say about this, yeah the in ring stuff was solid but it was short and not even important at all when you look at how this was booked. This would be acceptable for a TV show but not for a Wrestlemania main event. 
**1/2*


_Steel Cage Match for the WWF Championship:_
*Randy Savage(c) w/Elizabeth vs. Ted Dibiase w/Virgil*

This was what Wrestlemania should have been. As in they told the story of Savage overcoming seemingly impossible odds to win. They played these odds so well that there were times where I thought my wrestling knowledge was lacking because there was no way Savage was going to pull it off. The wrestling itself wasn't anything mind blowing but the story telling was top notch. You could feel the desperation to get out of the cage. I was getting angry seeing Virgil climb up the cage time and time again to stop Savage. I so rarely feel like that while watching matches so it's always great when a match is able to suck you in and make you think like a kid again. 
****1/2 *


Overall this was a pretty good disc but not every match was a home run. Just looking at the match listing I know the DVD is going to get a lot better. Good start. 



Disc 2


*Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan w/Elizabeth vs. Andre the Giant and Ted DiBiase w/Bobby Heenan and Virgil*
*Special Referee: Jesse Ventura*

This was a really strange match. From the structure of the match to the downright bizarre ending. Both Hogan and Savage worked as the face in peril for extended periods of time. We got two hot tags out of this and the crowd went insane for both of those hot tags. The controls segments were also really well done as Andre was only involved for short periods of time and the rest was DiBiase. It was probably the absolute best way that they could have used Andre. They picked up the pace from time to time during the match but it was the ending stretch that made this really strange. Hogan and Savage got their asses kicked and it looked like they could have easily been counted out. Then Elizabeth got on the ring apron and took off her skirt. It was pretty hilarious as everyone just sort of stood there and stared at her. With Dibiase and Andre distracted Savage and Hogan came back in the ring and quickly got the win. kind of a weird match but it was never boring and I was entertained from bell to bell. 
*****


I want to point out how cool the post match was. Now this was months and months away from the Mania match where Elizabeth would be the center point of the feud. Hogan celebrated the victory by giving her a hug and I don't think I imagined a brief look of outrage on Savage's face when he saw that. He got over it quickly but I really think I saw something briefly after the match.


_
Wrestlemania VI 
WWF Championship Match:_
*Randy Savage(c) vs. Hulk Hogan*

Pretty awesome match even if it had the generic Hogan ending. Now this was pretty much the standard Hogan match but Savage worked his ass off and the Elizabeth factor made this a lot more interesting. I was happy to see that Savage didn't play that big of a chicken shit heel like he did in his earlier matches as a heel on this set. He also worked a control segment which was also very different from what he did in a lot of his other heel matches. I wasn't thrilled with the fact that Hulk kicked out of the elbow drop, Hulked up, and won right away. The ending is really the only negative with the match though and I kind of have to go easy on it because of the time period. Great match, the pacing was really good, the crowd was amazing, and the Elizabeth factor was compelling. Great match, at this point it's probably the second best Mania match ever.
******

_
WWF Championship Match:_
*"Macho King" Randy Savage w/Sherri vs. Hulk Hogan(c)*

This was a really watered down version of their Wrestlemania match. I'm not sure how long this went since it was a TV match and they went to a commercial break. Sherri did a fantastic job as a heel manager as she bumped and did her best to make this match interesting. As good as she was here her impact on the match had nothing on the compelling story that they told about Elizabeth at Wrestlemania. Anyway this is back into the category of another generic Hogan match as it just lacked everything that made Mania special. Good match for TV but that's about it. 
***3/4* 

_
Wrestlemania VI:_
*"Macho King" Randy Savage and "Queen" Sherri vs. Dusty Rhodes and Sapphire w/Elizabeth
*
Dusty calls out Elizabeth to get in Savage's head and Savage freaks out when he sees her. That's really the only good thing about this. I have no idea why this was put on the DVD other than it showed Elizabeth being physically involved in a match for what I think was the first time. The match was total shit though.
*1/2**


_Wrestlemania VII_
_Retirement Match:_
*"Macho King" Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior*

This match is so different from everything else that's on the DVD. It resembles a modern era match more than a match from from over 20 years ago. You saw the heel kick out of a finisher and then have the match go on for a lot longer. This was something totally unique for the time period. This was over 20 years ago but I think if they had wanted to pull off a double turn they could have instead of just seeing Savage's memorable face turn after the match. Savage and Warrior threw everything they had at each other and time and time again we saw that they just couldn't put each other away. 

There's just something about the match that I just can't describe. While watching the match was thinking to myself, "This isn't anything too special." Now I feel like an idiot for even thinking that. This was amazing and a million times better than anything we should expect from Warrior. Savage made Warrior look an unstoppable monster and put on the performance of a life time. One minute he was a despicable heel and the next he was getting so much sympathy from the crowd. 
*****1/2 *

Post match was amazing. I could probably be convinced that it was all real if someone took the effort to do so. People in the crowd were sobbing at seeing Savage and Elizabeth getting back together. 

*
Jake Roberts vs. Randy Savage*

Well it came to no surprise that Savage's last match wasn't on the second disk of his DVD. This was his first match back where he was out for Roberts' blood. He came out going crazy but Roberts soon took control of the match and was working on the injured arm of Savage (the same one that Roberts had his snake bite). There was some real intensity to the match but it didn't last long. Great selling from Savage and Roberts played his character really well. Now I don't know how this feud concluded but I would have much rather sen that on here instead of this because this was far from the feud ender. Still, they added a lot to the feud and this was really entertaining. Great for what it was, but this was primarily storyline advancement.
***1/2* 


Again the post match stuff was awesome. Elizabeth was fantastic as was Jake. I know it's all a work and I felt so bad for her, I don't think it's the nostalgia glasses but she seems like a better actress than any other diva that I can think of. And she didn't even have to say a word. 



_Wrestlemania VIII_
_WWF Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) w/Mr. Perfect vs. Randy Savage w/Elizabeth*

I love watching these two wrestle each other. Since I was a little kid they were fierce rivals with each other and from the opening bell I felt like a little kid again. Savage just bring this intensity when he's in the ring with Flair that I can just feel how much he hates him. We saw some of that in his brief match with Roberts but it's nothing compared to the intensity that you feel here. This was so much more than just the intensity, it was a perfectly crafted story that had the crowd in a frenzy for the last half of the match. This is by far my favorite match on the set. 

This was really broken into a few different segments with perfect transitioning between the segments. Obviously Savage comes out going insane to start the match and just beating the hell out of Flair, this was fantastic obviously as I just praised how great Savage was acting like a Maniac. Then we see Flair's control segment that was pretty well done but made even better by the way Savage sold it. The way he is able to just get so much sympathy from the crowd is nothing short of amazing. He was getting the place to explode just by throwing a single punch. Once Savage starts his comeback the match goes from good and right into great territory. 

What I loved was that comeback was more Maniac Savage just going crazy on Flair. You could feel it in the arena that Flair had no chance and that a title change was imminent. Flair was battered and bloody when Savage mercifully hit the elbow drop for the win. Except that wasn't the end, this had another 10 minutes left to it. The fact that I knew the results and still got totally fulled by a false finish is amazing. I was getting ready to write this review about how this was a really good match but nothing all that amazing. Well when Perfect got involved and him and Flair seemed to be ready to screw Savage out of the title I changed my mind completely. What followed was about 10 minutes of just pure drama in the ring. Elizabeth made an appearance, Savage got hit with a foreign object, then in the leg with a chair. When he was locked in the Figure Four with an injured leg there was just this desperate feeling that the fix was in and Savage wouldn't be able to overcome the odds. Needless to say when Savage powered out of the Figure Four and scored a role up for the win it was an amazing moment. 

I'm shocked at how much I loved this. Now I know there is some bias because I grew up on this feud but I don't think it's that much. I really think this is a near perfect match. The only complaint is that Elizabeth was too much of a distraction when she made her way to the ring. That's the only bad thing I have to say about this match. Otherwise this is wrestling perfection Savage sold his leg so well, seemed like he was ready to kill Flair the entire match. He was the perfect babyface against Flair, who brought his A game. This is a match that is technically good, has a red hot crowd, and is able to get the viewer emotionally invested on the match. This just went from a match I barely remember as a kid to a match that's really high on my unwritten favorite matches ever list. 
*****3/4 *


Disc 2 was awesome. So many great matches and I loved how Savage's career between WM IV and VIII is really just one long storyline between him and Elizabeth. Great matches and some 


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Randy Savage(c) w/Elizabeth vs. Shawn Michaels w/Sensational Sherri*

It's pretty awesome that this match even exists. I still wasn't that impressed with the match though. Shawn didn't really seem to be over a heel here and the history between Savage and Sherri wasn't played up as much as it could have. Savage's comeback was pretty good but it was the control segment by Shawn that left a lot to be desired. I'm really not a fan of Shawn as a heel in the ring at all. He makes it work when he goes against bigger opponents but for me to really enjoy this I would have preferred a face vs. face match or Savage as he heel. There's nothing memorable about it and aside from it being Shawn and Savage in the ring this is entirely forgettable. 
***3/4 *


*Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair w/Sherri and Mr. Perfect vs. Randy Savage and Bret Hart*

So many Hall of Famers. Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Sherri, Mr. Perfect, Jim Ross, Bobby Heenan, and Howard Finkle all were involved in the match in one way or another. So seeing all of these people together was pretty amazing. Too bad the match wasn't special at all. They went back and forth for a while before we saw a really long control segment worked on Savage. It wasn't anything too amazing but good enough. The hot tag to Hart wasn't too hot either. Then the match ended with a roll up out of nowhere. There was some cool stuff early on as they built up some animosity between the teams. This really just felt like en exhibition and I feel like it's only on the DVD because of who's in the match and not how good the match is. 
***1/2*

_
WWF Championship Match:_
*Randy Savage vs. Yokozuna(c) w/Mr. Fuji* 

This was a few weeks before Wrestlemania and this was Savage's chance to take to title and mess up the Mania card. The match structure was pretty simple as Savage got in his brief spurt of offense to start things before Yokozuna taking control of the match. Everything early on was fine, Yokozuna moved around really well for a guy his size and Savage is a fantastic babyface. It's not so much they did but this match just had the right feel to it. You could tell from the crowd reactions that they thought Savage could actually take the title home. At around the 5 or 6 minute mark Savage started is comeback and you could almost feel the imminent title change. And then Yokozuna cut he comeback off with one single blow. The ending was rather lackluster but everything until the Crush run in was really entertaining. 
***3/4 *


So this ends Savages run in the WWF and the next few matches are from his WCW run. Now this is really what I remember as a kid. 

_
Life Guard Match:_
*Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage *

Hilariously stupid match type for these guys at an event that was a hilariously stupid idea. For those that haven't had the experience of seeing this event it took place on the beach. For this match they made all the wrestlers wear pink tie-dye shirts and act as lumberjacks. Man do I miss WCW some times. Oh and they claimed that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people were watching this on the beach. The crowd was terrible sounding. Whether it's because the people there were just some random people on the beach or because the audio was terrible because they were on a beach I don't know. There's also a chance that people just couldn't see a damn thing because beaches don't have bleachers and the sun was shining in a bunch of people's eyes. It also looked really hot out and nobody in the crowd looked particularly happy. 

The match itself left a lot to be desired. We saw this video package about how Flair had attacked Savage's father yet when the match started I didn't see any of that aggression. Once the match got going and Savage started his comeback we got the intensity that was lacking at first and this really took a turn for the better. Savage was almost in a state of near desperation and he got a reaction out of the hot and sun blinded beach goers. I just wish the whole match had the intensity of the last couple minutes of the match. This is a tough one to rate as I loved the last few minutes but really didn't like a majority of this. I'll guess I'll go with this:
***1/4*

_
WCW Championship Match:_
*Randy Savage w/Like 100 Girls vs. Ric Flair(c) w/Jimmy Hart*

This is the match that I wish I had just watched. Savage brings the intensity right from the start of the match. The control segment from Flair was so much more interesting and the crowd seemed so much more into it because if how aggressive Savage started. You knew that the comeback was going to be great because you already saw how great Savage was when he got in some offense. This didn't go too long but we got to see a really fun match. I would have preferred a longer comeback from Savage but the crowd went insane when they saw the title change. Hogan showing up was unnecessarily but hey it was a cool moment and a good end to a really fun match.
**** *


_Lights Out Match:_*
Randy Savage w/Elizabet vs. Diamond Dallas Page w/Kimberly *

This is one of the matches that defined my childhood as a wrestling fan. I remember being 6 and my mom ordering this for me. In fact I have a recording of this on a VHS somewhere in my house. This was a lot of fun. It was a wild and crazy brawl that saw Savage control the match and the crowd go insane for any offense DDP got in. I just wish this hadn't fallen victim to classic WCW booking. It sucks to see the NWO use numbers to cheat to win. I hated it as a kid and it still drives me insane. I know that was their gimmick and that it made the times when the NWO lost all the better but I still wish DDP had been able to get the win. 

Either way this was a great. As far as I can remember this was one of Savage's last great matches. It had everything you could ask for in a street fight and it was a blast to go and watch something that I remember seeing as a little kid. 
****3/4 *



_WCW Championship Match:_
*Kevin Nash(c) and Sting vs. Randy Savage and Sid Vicious w/Team Madness*

We see some more classic WCW booking here. Nash was the champion and was defending his title in a tag match...OK. And apparently the only way he could lose the title was if he got pinned. I'm not sure if Sting could actually win the title here either. Why Nash would ever enter the match I don't know. Why someone would book a match with these stipulations I don't know either. None of these stipulations really mattered though as this was wrestled like it was any other tag match. The match also had the lamest SWERVE ever. 

This just wasn't good. It started slow and it ended slow without every picking up. The control segment on Sting was awful and not in the least bit interesting. I get why it's on here but this just wasn't good other than a few interesting moments. 
**3/4* 


Overall this was an incredible DVD. Disc 3 left a lot to be desired but it was mostly stuff from the end of Savage's career. There were some incredible matches on here and I'm glad I got to see some for the first time since I was a kid. Well worth the time and something that I would say is a must have for wrestling fans.​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Survivor Series and NYR 05 I'm assuming ?

Summerslam 2002 has quite possibly one of my favorite matches of all time main eventing in ROCK/BROCK, Trips/HBK being epic as fuck, as well as one of the greatest up and down undercards of all time featuring the likes of Edge, Eddie, Jericho, Flair, Benoit, Van Dam, Taker, etc.

AUSTIN-ROCK TIME THANK GOD.

OH SHIT MACHO MADNESS DVD REVIEW. A top 5 favorite DVD from where I sit, and that's coming from somebody who has over 200 WWF/WWE DVDs in my library. Such quality from top to bottom it's insane. NOT GOING TO REVEAL anything, but we could perhaps be in the same boat when it comes to Savage's Wrestlemania matches.

I'd argue Savage could potentially be the most consistent performer in WWF history though. BEAST MODE.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah , **** for SS and ****1/4 for NYR 05. Definitely got one more **** to come as I'm a big fan of the Chamber where McIntyre goes BEAST.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Smackdown 2011 w/ Edge and Rey going beast mode and Smackdown 2010 with JERICHO-TAKER are both pretty awesome chamber matches, but then again I'm a pretty huge fan of that gimmick in particular so a majority of them (excluding D2D & NYR 06) are over three snowflakes for me.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Smackdown 2011 chamber match :mark: 2nd best chamber in my book from last view. 

Hbk/Jericho time :mark: one of my all time favourites


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Rock/Austin Wrestlemania 17
> Austin/HHH 3SOH (think you were one of the people who thought far less of it than others)
> Angle/Michaels Wrestlemania 21


Didn't even acknowledge Austin vs Rock made the list, but I've rolled my eyes at that match getting the "perfect" moniker attached. Same with the Austin vs Triple H match - which I don't care for - so you're correct there. However list wise, only one was spot on. The tripe known as Michaels vs Angle. 

Hart vs Michaels Iron Man from WrestleMania 12
Triple Threat Elimination Match from Survivor Series '02

Those were the others on the list that made me crack a smile.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I once saw a poll done in 2006 I do believe that listed Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels as the 3rd greatest match in WWF/WWE history. No joke, I thought the match was overrated before but GOD FUCKING DAMN that's taking it to the extreme.

KURT ANGLE ENTHUSIASTS :kurt

http://floydscabana.blogspot.ca/2008/01/pwt-top-100-matches-of-all-time.html

There you go. Read that and you'll be rolling your eyes for an eternity, turns out it's a North American list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't really blame anyone who says Austin/Rock is that good. "Five stars" is probably a stretch, but I think's a fantastic match and way better than a lot of other matches that get five stars.

I don't even like Angle/Michaels as much the Randy Orton/Orlando Jordan match that GOON wrote about earlier. I think there's like 3 matches in WWE every week better than it. I've seen way too much praise for it to think it being a top WWE match is surprising, though. Maybe it's because I used to really like it myself, but I wouldn't even be surprised if it's called the greatest match of all time.

EDIT - That list has Japanese matches on it as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And the Iron Man was #4 to boot. To top the list Styles vs Daniels vs Joe from Unbreakable made the top 10. Meanwhile Flair vs Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble was in the upper 80's.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mankind/Rock from the Rumble was at like 35 or something. I'm not going to be a 'shitting on opinion' guy (I'll TRY not to), but this is actually way worse than the 2000s list done on the same site/blog/vote/poll peoples whatever.

I like how DDP/Jay Leno v Hogan/Bischoff is an 'obvious joke' #5 before they say it's Savage/Steamboat. Given the rest of the list I actually bought it for a second. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It left a lot to be desired. Came off like a total WWE opinion type of list. I know it had some Puro, Indie, & TNA sprinkled throughout, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

Hogan vs Andre made it. There you go.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got a comment on my BLOG~! (hey guys, did you know I had a blog? ) a couple of weeks ago regarding my top 100 WWF/E matches list, saying that they couldn't take a list like that serious with no Hogan/Andre on it :lmao. I replied to their comment, but they never responded. Hoping I at least did a good enough job explaining so they are satisfied with the answer .


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Pimp me the list Cal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You got a blog?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did the list in mid 2010, hence some matches not there that would be if I did it now .



Spoiler: cal's top 100 wwe/f matches ever



1.	The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 05/10/1997
2.	The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels – WrestleMania 26 28/03/2010
3.	The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Smackdown 04/09/2003
4.	Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 20/03/1994
5.	Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter - WWF 10/01/1981
6.	Kurt Angle Vs Steve Austin - SummerSlam 19/08/2001
7.	Cactus Jack Vs Triple H - Royal Rumble 23/01/2000
8.	Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter – WWF 21/03/1981
9.	Bob Backlund Vs Adrian Adonis - MSG 18/01/1982
10.	Mankind Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 10: Mind Games 22/09/1996
11.	Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 17/11/1996
12.	Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 23/03/1997
13.	The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 05/01/2009
14.	Bob Backlund Vs Greg Valentine - MSG 19/02/1979
15.	Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL - Judgment Day 16/05/2004
16.	Christian Vs Jack Swagger - ECW 24/02/2009
17.	Randy Orton Vs John Cena - No Way Out 17/02/2008
18.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Smackdown 23/06/2005
19.	Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - WWE Smackdown 13/01/2006
20.	Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day 21/05/2006
21.	The Undertaker Vs Mankind - King of the Ring 28/06/1998
22.	William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - WWE Velocity 16/07/2005
23.	The Undertaker Vs Batista - Cyber Sunday 28/10/2007
24.	The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 21/07/2002
25.	Triple H Vs Ric Flair - Taboo Tuesday 19/10/2005
26.	Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 26/08/1991
27.	Royal Rumble Match 19/01/1992
28.	Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam 25/08/2003
29.	Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 13/06/1993
30.	The Rock Vs Steve Austin - WrestleMania XIX 30/03/2003
31.	The Rock Vs Triple H - Backlash 30/04/2000
32.	The Rock Vs Steve Austin - WrestleMania X7 01/04/2001
33.	The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 20/10/2002
34.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Brock Lesnar - No Way Out 15/02/2004
35.	The Undertaker Vs Kane - WWE Smackdown 04/04/2008
36.	Royal Rumble Match 25/01/2009
37.	Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown 24/11/2006
38.	Dick Murdoch Vs Barry Windham - WWF 16/02/1985
39.	Owen Hart Vs The British Bulldog - WWF Raw 03/03/1997
40.	Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - WWE Smackdown 18/09/2003
41.	Finlay Vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Smackdown 09/11/2007
42.	Edge & Rey Mysterio Vs Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit - No Mercy 20/10/2002
43.	The Undertaker Vs Batista - WrestleMania 23 01/04/2007
44.	The Rock Vs HHH - Judgment Day 21/05/2000
45.	Triple H Vs Chris Jericho - Fully Loaded 23/07/2000
46.	Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown 05/05/2006
47.	Edge Vs The Undertaker - WrestleMania 24 30/03/2008
48.	The Undertaker Vs Edge - Judgment Day 18/05/2008
49.	William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - No Mercy 08/10/2006
50.	Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - Vengeance 26/06/2005
51.	Shawn Michaels Vs Razor Ramon - SummerSlam 27/08/1995
52.	The Rockers Vs The Brainbusters - MSG 23/01/1989
53.	The Undertaker Vs Mankind - In Your House 14: Revenge of the 'Taker 20/04/1997
54.	Chris Benoit Vs Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XX 14/03/2004
55.	Steve Austin Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Smackdown 31/05/2001
56.	Triple H Vs Batista - Vengeance 26/06/2005
57.	Elimination Chamber III - New Year’s Revolution 09/01/2005
58.	Money in the Bank Ladder Match I - WrestleMania 21 03/04/2005
59.	Shawn Michaels Vs Razor Ramon - WrestleMania X 20/03/1994
60.	The Undertaker & Batista Vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena - No Way Out 18/02/2007
61.	The Undertaker Vs Mankind - In Your House 11: Buried Alive 20/10/1996
62.	Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho - WrestleMania XIX 30/03/2003
63.	Bret Hart Vs Vader Vs The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin - In Your House 13: The Final Four 16/02/1997
64.	The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - No Way Out 19/02/2006
65.	Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble 19/01/2003
66.	Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - WWF Smackdown 24/05/2001
67.	Royal Rumble Match 21/01/2001
68.	Diesel Vs Bret Hart - Royal Rumble 22/01/1995
69.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rob Van Dam - Backlash 21/04/2002
70.	Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - Survivor Series 14/11/2004
71.	The Rockers Vs Orient Express - Royal Rumble 19/01/1991
72.	Randy Savage Vs Ricky Steamboat - WrestleMania III 29/03/1987
73.	Diesel Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 19/11/1995
74.	William Regal Vs Christian - ECW 10/11/2009
75.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rob Van Dam - WWE Raw 27/05/2002
76.	Dude Love Vs Stone Cold - Over the Edge 31/05/1998
77.	Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - WrestleMania 21 03/04/2005
78.	Shawn Michaels Vs The British Bulldog - King of the Ring 23/06/1996
79.	Kurt Angle Vs Steve Austin - Unforgiven 23/09/2001
80.	The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - SummerSlam 21/08/2005
81.	The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - WrestleMania 16 02/04/2000
82.	Triple H & Steve Austin Vs The Undertaker & Kane - Backlash 29/04/2001
83.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Kurt Angle WWE Smackdown 02/09/2004
84.	Doink The Clown Vs Marty Jannetty - WWF Raw 21/06/1993
85.	T&A Vs The Dudley Boys - Backlash 30/04/2000
86.	The Rockers Vs Fabulous Rougeau Brothers - MSG 25/07/1988
87. Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown 24/03/2006
88.	Batista Vs King Booker Vs Finlay – WWE Smackdown 01/12/2006 
89. The Hardy Boys Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor Vs London & Kendrick Vs MNM – Armageddon 17/12/2006 
90. The Undertaker & Kane Vs MVP & Mr Kennedy – WWE Smackdown 03/11/2006
91. London & Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor – WWE Smackdown 08/12/2006
92.	Brian Kendrick Vs William Regal – WWE Smackdown 24/11/2006
93.	Bob Backlund Vs Don Muraco - MSG 21/09/1981
94. Shawn Michaels Vs Jeff Jarrett - In Your House 2: Lumberjacks 23/07/1995
95.	The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - No Mercy 08/10/2006
96.	Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin Vs Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair - WWE Raw 12/04/2004
97.	Shawn Michaels & Diesel Vs Razor Ramon & 1-2-3 Kid - WWF The Action Zone 30/10/1994
98.	Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker - Royal Rumble 18/01/1998
99.	Rey Mysterio Vs Jamie Noble – Velocity 01/05/2004
100.	Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James – WrestleMania 22 02/04/2006



Just got my latest order from SV. Would have been here sooner but wouldn't fit through the letter box so I had to get it redelivered . Turns out I fucked up and ordered another copy of Live in the UK Nov 2011... which I already own . COMPETITION ON MY BLOG COMING SOON!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> You got a blog?


He has a TWITTER, too. SHIT! This is so new to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

holy SHIT @ how highly you think of Cena vs Orton.

EDIT ~ FUCK


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just can't believe I actually FORGOT TO ADD Eddie/Rey GAB to my list. Would have made top 20 for sure. FML.

Just got some discs from Platt today too :mark: Larry Z Timeline of WWF 1980 :mark:.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

WWE exclusive list.

You got a general one?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope. Got a WCW one, and I was working on a top 100 matches of the decade for 00-09, but I kinda fell off that because I got burnt out on wrestling .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Didn't even acknowledge Austin vs Rock made the list, but I've rolled my eyes at that match getting the "perfect" moniker attached. Same with the Austin vs Triple H match - which I don't care for - so you're correct there. However list wise, only one was spot on. The tripe known as Michaels vs Angle.
> 
> Hart vs Michaels Iron Man from WrestleMania 12
> Triple Threat Elimination Match from Survivor Series '02
> ...


Ah I overlooked the Ironman there. Aye the Survivor Series triple threat tag caught my eye to, but I thought you were referring to past matches you've admitted to not liking as making you smile. This is what I get for overthinking things  .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Ah I overlooked the Ironman there. Aye the Survivor Series triple threat tag caught my eye to, but I thought you were referring to past matches you've admitted to not liking as making you smile. This is what I get for overthinking things  .


I thought Ironman would have been a lock, tbhayley. It's the worst.

3 way tag was up in the air. It's good. 5 stars though? I've seen WAY better matches that don't even earn 5 stars from me. So the curve among the logic there is pretty wide.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just spent 5 minutes trying to get the sleeve off the Rey Mysterio DVD. Thing wasn't stuck or anything, but its like its too small to actually fir around the normal DVD casing. Takes some fucking effort to get it off lol. I should watch it now while I can get to the discs .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wonder if anything will ever be easy for you, Cal. 

Let me know how that is. Although, I think I do know every match on it. Eh, doesn't hurt to have another opinion.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I probably won't watch it for about 10 years .

Might watch HENRY VS PUNK from Raw though. Tis their No DQ match. I love the Live in the UK releases .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thought you were going to pop it in right now. 8*D


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Santo/Casas, Bockwinkel/Hennig and the first WarGames sprung to mind. I said 'IDK if it's top 5-10', which is a stretch because looking at it on paper I'm convinced it's top ten, but I think I'd take Santo/Casas, a Flair/Windham (whichever the best one is....IDR), Murdoch/Windham, and Fujiwara/Choshu over it. So yeah, that's four.....I guess it's top 5 fo me? I'd have to watch everything and actually think about it (which I ain't doing).
> 
> I guess there's only a couple there I think are DEFINITELY better, but I was never sure when saying the original statement anyway.  Goddamn...I think every match I've mentioned here has an actual shot at the #1 spot if I were doing a top matches of 87.
> 
> ...


Forgot about Bock/Hennig, though its been a while since I saw their series.

Think the best Flair/Windham from '87 is the Worldwide encounter. Want to say 1/20 but could be thinking of Misawa/Kawada 1/20 from 10 years later. BOTB II '86 is their other best match, with the Crockett Cup match from April '87 being very good but below Worldwide and BOTB II imo.

I consider Han/Tamura 1/22/97 to be their best and one of the greatest matches ever, but its not like the 9/25/96 or 9/26/97 encounters are anything to be sniffed at either. Demonstrates Han's underrated ability to inject storytelling and drama into each exchange whilst using his immense presence to create a pulsating atmosphere whenever he looks threatened or in trouble.

Forgot about that belt shot. Gotta love Murdoch's commitment to beating the piss out of somebody.

That Juvi/Kash match was indeed excellent. Randomly watched it a month or so ago. Very good selling, well worked exchanges and a good finish. Didn't hate Kennedy either as the cocky Network exec trying to pass off the in ring action as something that reflected well on him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Timeline with Larry Z. Then I need to get back to video editing. Then I'll probably watch some more BROCK from SD 02. And of course I need to watch Impact and SD from this week, downloaded Impact, just getting SD now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oof. Impact. Lets hope it flies on by for you. Lord knows it felt like an eternity before it finally finished for me.

Probably thanks to the lack of arks

(PS you get 13 minutes of CHAVO)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I skip matches that don't interest me . So I'll probably skip the entire show, which happens more often than not :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch the first match so you can laugh at the horrid nature of it and the baffling finish.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Volk Han name drops on WF. Is this 2002? Dr. Brown? :mcgee


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Salt Upon Wounds said:


> Volk Han name drops on WF. Is this 2002? Dr. Brown? :mcgee


The beauty of this thread is that any discussion is allowed so there's often a good chance a few of us will start talking about other promotions and wrestlers from time to time. Volk Han needs to be a familiar face to a lot of people, extraordinary talent.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

I was gonna make a Han avi/sig request in the GFX section for a while now but was afraid the most of the current userbase would be confused as to who the skinny-fat commie in thights was. Fuck it I'm gonna do it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

:mark:

There are quite a few familiar with him, but aye RINGS and shoot style doesn't get brought up much since the Puro thread in Other Wrestling is largely devoted to New Japan, All Japan, Joshi etc. When it does though there's usually some good discussion. People would love him if they took the time to watch some of his matches though. I get that with shoot style sometimes if you're not greatly invested in matwork it becomes a chore to see guys trade holds and wrestling a 'realistic' match. But Han is an honest to god great worker since he times big nearfalls and counters to perfection and always feeds off of the crowd. He was so great at wrestling and presenting himself as the phenom that when he wrestled someone like Tamura or Kohsaka he knew how to make the crowd go ballistic when they'd get a big counter and have him in trouble. Han/Tamura is as good a 'clash of the titans' style as something like Flair/Steamboat or Misawa/Kawada. Not trying to directly compare them, but the way the chemistry shines in the ring and the crowd reaction to everything highlights how they managed to create a dynamic between two maestros that the fans were hooked to see unfold.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit vs. Team Angle - No Way Out 03 - ****1/4
The GOAT Handicap Match if you ask me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was tremendously disappointed with that match. I think I gave it *** or something. Expected so much more and it really didn't deliver .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*** for me too.

We all know when it comes to that event, it is all about Undertaker vs Big Show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You really were that dissapointed? Well, maybe it's because today's standards are too low 
Agree that Taker vs Show that night was brilliant as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What does today have to do with it? 

I didn't like it from the first time I saw it, which was live .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got what I expected. Didn't think it was going to be anything too special.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I liked it a lot. What I meant by today's standards was that I may have enjoyed it more than it deserves, since today's matches aren't really anything too special 

More BORKLASER greatness - vs The Big Show, Royal Rumble 03, **1/4. Not bad for what it was.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Santo/Casas, Bockwinkel/Hennig and the first WarGames sprung to mind. I said 'IDK if it's top 5-10', which is a stretch because looking at it on paper I'm convinced it's top ten, but I think I'd take Santo/Casas, a Flair/Windham (whichever the best one is....IDR), Murdoch/Windham, and Fujiwara/Choshu over it. So yeah, that's four.....I guess it's top 5 fo me? I'd have to watch everything and actually think about it (which I ain't doing).
> 
> I guess there's only a couple there I think are DEFINITELY better, but I was never sure when saying the original statement anyway.  Goddamn...I think every match I've mentioned here has an actual shot at the #1 spot if I were doing a top matches of 87.


I forgt about Bock/Hennig, but I don't even remember which of their matches is which now. I'll get to them on the AWA set soon, though.

Also forgot about Wargames. That shit is fucking with any brawl in history, and guys punching each other in the face and bleeding everywhere and launching dudes into a cage is pretty much pro-wrestling to me, so yeah, that's probably better (haven't seen that in years, though). 

The first Jumbo/Tenryu match is really great as well, btw. I don't think it's top 5, and maybe not even top 10, but it's def "high end."



Salt Upon Wounds said:


> I was gonna make a Han avi/sig request in the GFX section for a while now but was afraid the most of the current userbase would be confused as to who the skinny-fat commie in thights was. Fuck it I'm gonna do it.


There's probably less than 20 people on here that know who Han is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Volk Han is mentioned, Andy appears!

Let's see if we can summon us a Texan...

HEY GUYS CHAVO JR IS THE GOAT!!! SOMEONE TELL ME OTHERWISE!!!


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/Batista vs. HBK/Cena NWO 2007 - ****

Great tag team match.I think Taker was in the best shape of his entire career during that time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Great tag match indeed. Probably top 5 in WWE from what I've seen.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

IYH Set listings

DISC 1

Simplistic Yet Brilliant

Bret Hart vs. Hakushi
In Your House • May 14, 1995

Intercontinental Championship Match
Jeff Jarrett vs. Shawn Michaels
In Your House • July 23, 1995

Hey Yo

Intercontinental Championship Match
Razor Ramon vs. Dean Douglas
In Your House • October 22, 1995

Arkansas Hog Pen Match
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Henry O. Godwinn
In Your House • December 17, 1995

A Sloppy Masterpiece?

WWE Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog
In Your House • December 17, 1995


DISC 2

Memories Flooding Back

No Holds Barred Match for the WWE Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel
In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies • April 28, 1996

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind
In Your House: Mind Games • September 22, 1996

That’s Why They Play The Game

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley
In Your House: Buried Alive • October 20, 1996

Buried Alive Match
The Undertaker vs. Mankind
In Your House: Buried Alive • October 20, 1996

Crowning a New Champion

Four Corners Match for the Vacant WWE Championship
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader vs. The Undertaker
In Your House: Final Four • February 16, 1997

DISC 3

Back in the Saddle

10-Man Tag Team Match
The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & The Legion of Doom
In Your House: Canadian Stampede • July 6, 1997

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
Ground Zero: In Your House • September 7, 1997

A Slobberknocker

Non-Sanctioned 8-Man Tag Team Match
Stone Cold Steven Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie vs. HHH, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega
No Way Out of Texas: In Your House • February 15, 1998

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane
Fully Loaded: In Your House • July 26, 1998

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Mankind
Judgment Day: In Your House • October 18, 1998

Victory at All Costs

Last Man Standing Match for the WWE Championship
The Rock vs. Mankind
St. Valentine’s Day Massacre • February 14, 1999

A Trip Down Memory Lane


BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES

DISC 1

Todd Pettengill Outtakes

In Your House Sweepstakes Winner

DISC 2

#1 Contenders Match
Bret Hart vs. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin
In Your House: Revenge of the ‘Taker • April 20, 1997

Match to crown first WWE Light Heavyweight Champion
Taka Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher
D-Generation X: In Your House • December 7, 1997

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock
D-Generation X: In Your House • December 7, 1997

D’Lo Brown vs. X-Pac
Fully Loaded: In Your House • July 26, 1998


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's... actually probably the best listing they could do... aside from the GOAT match missing. Not even a Bluray extra? 

HIAC hasn't been released in HD yet has it?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I don't think I've ever seen that Michaels/Diesel No Holds Barred match so I might end up downloading that set just for that match.

Speaking of No Holds Barred matches, I have the Benoit/Orton No Holds Barred match up next on my Smackdown 2006 project. I've heard a lot of great things about it so I'm looking forward to it. Might make my way through some of the Smackdown's from February 2006 as well tonight. I was looking at some of the cards of those shows and I see the following matches:

Benoit/Finlay - February 3rd, 2006
Undertaker/Henry- February 10th, 2006
MNM/Londrick - February 10th, 2006
Angle and Taker/MNM and Mark Henry- February 17th, 2006
Finlay and JBL/Benoit and Lashley - February 17th, 2006
Lashley, Benoit, and Mysterio/Finlay, JBL, and Orton - February 24th, 2006

And the first Smackdown in March has Taker/Angle for the World Heavyweight Title. Needless to say, I'm hyped to finally watch that match as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The NHB between Benoit and Orton is ★★★★½ to me. Almost on par with their SummerSlam match but not quite better because the latter has 'history' backing it up while NHB is just a great TV match.

Just finished watching The Great Sasuke vs Wild Pegasus (Benoit) from Super J Cup 1994. All I got to say is WHAT A MATCH. Not sure if I can go full 5 with it yet but I definitely need to watch more stuff from Japan. It sucks that I don't understand a word from the commentary but as long as there's noise, I'm fully into it. That top rope gutwrench suplex was an awesome finish.

EDIT: Don't get too excited about Benoit/Finlay from early February. They barely get any time to wrestle. Thankfully, they got the opportunity on May and delivered to perfection.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That IYH set actually looks pretty awesome. Sucks that HIAC is left off, though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Re: IYH DVD Set

Hm, I was looking very much forward to this release, but 16 matches on a 3 disc release? And re-releases galore? I'm thinking (and hoping) this is the first installment of the IYH series. Kind of like how the best of Nitro volume 2 is coming out sometime this year. Hopefully, there's another IYH set coming out sometime next year, as well.

I really wanted Bret/Diesel Cage match from IYH 6 and HBK/Sid/Ahmed vs. Camp Cornette (Vader/Bulldog/Owen). Oh well, hopefully they get released on a volume 2 IYH set in the future.

Still going to get it, though, the blu-ray, at least.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> The NHB between Benoit and Orton is ★★★★½ to me. Almost on par with their SummerSlam match but not quite better because the latter has 'history' backing it up while NHB is just a great TV match.
> 
> Just finished watching The Great Sasuke vs Wild Pegasus (Benoit) from Super J Cup 1994. All I got to say is WHAT A MATCH. Not sure if I can go full 5 with it yet but I definitely need to watch more stuff from Japan. It sucks that I don't understand a word from the commentary but as long as there's noise, I'm fully into it. That top rope gutwrench suplex was an awesome finish.
> 
> EDIT: Don't get too excited about Benoit/Finlay from early February. They barely get any time to wrestle. Thankfully, they got the opportunity on May and delivered to perfection.


Watch Wild Pegasus vs Black Tiger (Benoit vs Eddie) from BOSJ 1996 when you get chance. Their best match together and one of the best juniors match from New Japan in the 90s. Benoit vs Regal from New Japan in 1995 is also another great bout, as well as Regal challenging for the IWGP Title vs Shinya Hashimoto in '96.

The Liger/Sano series from '89-90 is also incredible and arguably produces the best Juniors match of the decade in their final encounter. Can't recall if they're on youtube/dailymotion but should be able to point you in the direction of a link if you require.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Watch Wild Pegasus vs Black Tiger (Benoit vs Eddie) from BOSJ 1996 when you get chance. Their best match together and one of the best juniors match from New Japan in the 90s. Benoit vs Regal from New Japan in 1995 is also another great bout, as well as Regal challenging for the IWGP Title vs Shinya Hashimoto in '96.
> 
> The Liger/Sano series from '89-90 is also incredible and arguably produces the best Juniors match of the decade in their final encounter. Can't recall if they're on youtube/dailymotion but should be able to point you in the direction of a link if you require.


Been meaning to watch the Benoit/Eddie match for a while, just haven't gotten around to it since most of my "wrestling time" is spent on my 'journey' project and that takes so much of the time that I don't get much to spare for single matches to check out.

Thanks for all the recommendations, I'm going to definitely put them in my list of matches to check out asap.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Time to catch up on stuff and update THE LIST.

*Team Hell No v Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - Smackdown (2/1/13)*
Good, fun TV tag match worked at a nice pace with a bunch of cool looking moves and sequences. Very easy to sit through and enjoy from start to finish. Sin Cara actually looked good for a change. Not sure if that's a testament to how good Bryan is or if he's just better suited to working tag matches. Probably a bit of both. Either way this is worth a watch. 

*Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown (2/1/13)*
Also well worth watching. Why has no one mentioned this? It's not _great_ or anything but I thought it was a really good showcase for Del Rio as the fighting babyface champion. Definitely starting to appreciate him in that role. He's good at making himself seem vulnerable with his bumping and selling (Orton could learn a thing or two in that regard) and his offense is great, case in point being stiff shots to Ziggler's back followed by a backstabber in the ropes here. Ziggler btw takes the best turnbuckle corner bumps in the business. Dude flies and EATS it. These two have a great match in them and I'm thinking we'll get the chance to see it this year on PPV.

*Chris Jericho v CM Punk - Raw (2/4/13)*
I might be the only person who doesn't think this is a great match. I enjoyed it live but watching it again I don't think I'd add it to my list. Up until they started teasing finishers and going back and forth down the stretch the match was just kind of there and the crowd being SHIT didn't help it one bit. Overall it's still a good match and I liked some of the stuff they did. Thought they did a good job building to Jericho getting the Walls on Punk, and Punk being unable to lift Jericho for the GTS after being in the Walls was a neat little touch that I appreciated. Also thought Punk's counter to the Walls which led to the finish was good. It tends to look contrived at times but it didn't here. I'll probably give this another re-watch somewhere down the line to see if I like it more but for now it's in the 'good not great' category and lacking that little bit extra to make it onto my list.

So we're still left with:

1. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
2. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Similar thoughts on the tag with you. Was a very fun match and I loved the Mysterio/Bryan exchanges in particular.

Only caught what I think was a shortened version of Ziggler/Del Rio. The one I saw went about 8 mins and truthfully I wasn't overly impressed by it. Thought it was largely a collection of signature offence mixed in with a couple of fun Langston interference spots. Probably was a condensed version of the actual match as I don't recall there being a backstabber though.

Show/Del Rio Smackdown LMS is still my number 1 match from the company so far. Pretty tame start for WWE so far in 2013 compared to usual.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

World Heavyweight Championship WM rankings:

HHH/Booker: **3/4
HHH/HBK/Benoit: *****
HHH/Batista: ***
Angle/Orton/Rey: ***3/4
Batista/Taker: ****3/4
Edge/Taker: ****1/2
Edge/Cena/Show: ***
Jericho/Edge: ***
Edge/ADR: ***1/2
Bryan/Sheamus: DUD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ATF said:


> World Heavyweight Championship WM rankings:
> 
> *HHH/Booker: **3/4*
> HHH/HBK/Benoit: *****
> ...


I haven't rewatched these yet so I can say my thoughts on them ....

TAKE THESE RATINGS BACK DAMN IT :jpl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Booker: ****
HHH/HBK/Benoit: ****3/4
HHH/Batista: **3/4
Angle/Orton/Rey: **
Batista/Taker: ****1/2
Edge/Taker: ****1/2
Edge/Cena/Show: ***
Jericho/Edge: ***3/4
Edge/ADR: **
Bryan/Sheamus: DUD


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> HHH/Booker: ****
> HHH/HBK/Benoit: ****3/4
> HHH/Batista: **3/4
> Angle/Orton/Rey: **
> ...


Fairly positive those are my exact ratings, although I gave Bryan/Sheamus -*****.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

**** for Trips/Sucka? Didn't enjoy it that much. Drawn out, boring, a lil sloppy and pointless storyline that had the OBLIGATION of giving Book the title. Too bad HHH was more Super than Cena in 03. The Harlem Hangover was an overall WM 19 highlight though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Trips/Booker is pretty underrated imo. I think people let the finish affect their overall perception of the match. If anything, the finish only helps. :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Triple H vs Booker T - ★★★¼
Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★★
Triple H vs Batista - ★★★
Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton - ★★★
Batista vs Undertaker - ★★★★½
Edge vs Undertaker - ★★★★
Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena - ★★★¼
Edge vs Chris Jericho - ★★★¼
Edge vs Alberto Del Rio - ★★¾
Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - 0

Funny how it started with HHH having the spotlight for three years in a row, then Edge took over (and lost every single match save for the last one).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booker T's greatest match imo (not including multiman, though that would only include RR matches, an EC match and a 10 man tag).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Z said:


> HHH/Booker: ****
> HHH/HBK/Benoit: ****3/4
> HHH/Batista: **3/4
> Angle/Orton/Rey: **
> ...


These ratings are REALLY good. we're only a quarter star off everything besides Edge/Del Rio which I'm a fan of in particular, even though it should have been Christian-Edge instead of Del Rio.

Speaking of Del Rio, is there anybody out there besides me who still views him as a completely boring and bland in ring worker ? I mean damn he consistently puts on good matches but nothing I would go out of my way to see. Del Rio-Henry would interest me greatly though, hopefully we get a Henry title victory in which post Mania we can have Del Rio-Henry II , Sheamus-Henry , Orton-Henry , ZIGGLER-HENRY would be epic , Bryan-Henry , Kane-Henry , and even RYBACK-Henry would interest me in some capacity.

*CAL* , mind throwing out that official CAL SCALE for me ? I wanna plug some numbers in for the events I've already watched (I-XV w/ half of 14).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Cal Scale

NO = -1
DUD-* = 0
*1/4-** = 0.5
**1/4-**3/4 = 1
***-***1/4 = 2
***1/2 = 3
***3/4 = 4
**** = 5
****1/4 = 6
****1/2 = 7
****3/4 = 8
***** = 9
MOTY/GOAT = 2

Del Rio still sucks balls to me. I'm more interested in Orton's matches that Rio's. And that's fucking saying something.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I bought an Orton SUPERFAN package from WWESHOP for Christmas that included Orton's newest shirt, Baseball cap, chain, Superstar Collection DVD, and autographed poster. That should tell you how bad I WANT Orton to succeed and how truly depressed I am that he has sunk down this low.

To think he probably could have had an awesome match with Chris Jericho @ No Way Out before he was caught red handed being a fucking idiot.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Similar thoughts on the tag with you. Was a very fun match and I loved the Mysterio/Bryan exchanges in particular.
> 
> Only caught what I think was a shortened version of Ziggler/Del Rio. The one I saw went about 8 mins and truthfully I wasn't overly impressed by it. Thought it was largely a collection of signature offence mixed in with a couple of fun Langston interference spots. Probably was a condensed version of the actual match as I don't recall there being a backstabber though.
> 
> Show/Del Rio Smackdown LMS is still my number 1 match from the company so far. Pretty tame start for WWE so far in 2013 compared to usual.


Thoughts on Punk/Jericho?

Show/Del Rio is just one of those matches that I definitely appreciated as being good but couldn't get into it sufficiently to think it was great. Would probably be at number 3 on my list if I had a number 3. Either that or Punk/Jericho.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I bought an Orton SUPERFAN package from WWESHOP for Christmas that included Orton's newest shirt, Baseball cap, chain, Superstar Collection DVD, and autographed poster. That should tell you how bad I WANT Orton to succeed and how truly depressed I am that he has sunk down this low.
> 
> To think he probably could have had an awesome match with Chris Jericho @ No Way Out before he was caught red handed being a fucking idiot.


Hell yeah.

FUCK the cuntbag who books him against Wade Barrett every week. He's got a lot of heart to actually carry on while having to wrestle Barrett almost weekly. Anyone else would have probably walked out. I know I would've. Working with Barrett that much would send anyone into depression.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't wait to see Mark Henry destroy in the chamber.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd probably blow my brains out if I had to work Barrett more than once. I can't imagine anyone watching that shit live, either on TV or in the arena. Download + slider bar = somewhat happy Cal.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Thoughts on Punk/Jericho?
> 
> Show/Del Rio is just one of those matches that I definitely appreciated as being good but couldn't get into it sufficiently to think it was great. Would probably be at number 3 on my list if I had a number 3. Either that or Punk/Jericho.


Largely the same as you. Couple of good counters in the finishing stretch and I dug the selling of Punk putting over the Walls of Jericho, but like their matches last year I just didn't really get into the match and definitely don't think they have the chemistry others stress they do.

Definitely more excited for the return of Henry. Be great to have another great monster heel albeit one who's more active over the course of a year. Definitely looks like he's winning the Chamber based on his dominance so far and the way they built him up on Smackdown. Del Rio/Henry could be a great match at Mania based on Del Rio's babyface exploits so far as well as Henry looking likely to be as good as ever as the trash talking monster heel. I'd love to see him win the belt at Mania but I get the feeling he might be used to get Del Rio over as a true champion before he inevitably loses the belt to Ziggler via MITB.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One can imagine since WWE puts alot of stock in him and he's just being shoveled shit as a punishment for like a year or something. Would imagine he gets back into the WHC mix in a few months or actually given some coherent storyline to work with, all I know is working with Wade Barrett every week would be torture to me.

Mark Henry better win that chamber match though. FUCK.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd like for Henry to win the title at WM, then the closer we get to the MITB PPV, the more nervous and frustrated Ziggler gets knowing that his title match contract runs out at the event, but can't find an opportunity to "steal" the title from Henry. Could have him supporting all of Henry's PPV match opponents, coming out at ringside in an attempt to help them beat the beast so he can have any kind of chance of cashing in. Then have Ziggler finally cash in at the MITB PPV when someone finally manages to beat Henry... only for the new MITB winner to cash in right after, roll up Ziggler and steal the title. Would be hilarious to see the reaction on here, and even though I'd think it would kinda suck, they could really build Ziggler up as a more vicious wrestler from there, which might help him really reach that next level. Feud with the guy who cashed in on him, and have Ziggler finally win the belt and have a decent reign.

Totally not gonna happen of course .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tbh I quite like the first part of that booking Cal. Ziggler basically being too afraid to cash in on Henry and valiantly hoping someone can beat Henry before the PPV when his shot expires would be the sort of comical heel booking that could be entertaining and add some depth to any Henry title defence with Ziggler waiting in the clutches ready to strike.

That being said, if I was booking I'd be doing my best to get Ziggler over as a face simply because I believe as a worker the guy would be far better working from underneath rather than controlling a match, plus the 'Showoff' character is so easy to spin from arrogant and cocky into confident and determined and succeed as a babyface. I'd book it along the lines of Ziggler picking up big wins in programs, trying to cash in on Henry but being beaten up before the bell rings, thus technically having not cashed in yet eating a big beating in the process. Everyone expects Ziggler to try again but instead he vows to cash in honorably in a legit match because he's determined to prove he can beat the monster through pride after getting his ass kicked. Announce it around late May - early June in anticipation of the MITB PPV, have everyone write off Ziggler as being plucky and brave but not standing a chance. At the event I'd either have him pin Henry and shock the world, or have him lose in defiant fashion, then build him up for 3-5 months before taking the title off Henry at the second time of asking.

I also think a scenario similar to Benoit/Lesnar, where someone like Cena or Sheamus would actually tip Ziggler to beat Henry because of how defiant and tenacious he's been could work. Always loved that backstage segment where A Train backed Benoit to win despite having feuded with him for 2 months prior to the match, based solely off of how tough Benoit had proven to be in spite of A Train disliking him.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ADR/Henry sounds a million times better than any of the other suggestions/rumors I've seen for the world title at Mania. I'm fully behind them going that route.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> ADR/Henry sounds a million times better than any of the other suggestions/rumors I've seen for the world title at Mania. I'm fully behind them going that route.


Agreed. In a perfect world they'd put the belt on Bryan or make him the challenger and give us arguably the best current pairing for a David vs Goliath match. Sadly we're resigned to Bryan being months away from sniffing a title program so Del Rio is by far the best alternative to Orton or Ryback. I'd love to see Sheamus/Henry continue their program from 2011 in between April and July if Henry does indeed ge the belt. Always thought they had good chemistry and Sheamus needs a good program to sustain momentum after the end of the Big Show feud. 

Del Rio/Henry sounds promising though. Del Rio bumps and sells well, has the explosive and varied offence that works well for a smaller wrestler against someone of Henry's size and emotes very well although Henry's presence and charisma is so strong that even a generally tame babyface should flourish working beneath Henry. Henry deserves a Mania title program after his brilliant 2011 reign and really represents the best heel option on the roster with Lesnar being part time, as well as Lesnar's schedule and style befitting a part time approach.

Also if we're fantasy booking heel Henry vs face Bryan at Summerslam would likely be my dream scenario. Heard the rumours about Rock and Lesnar working Summerslam, which if that's the case allows them to book a slightly less 'high profile' title match whilst relying on Rock, Lesnar and Cena to pop a buyrate. Fuck just a Henry/Bryan program in general could be great for both, especially Bryan if they want to gradually turn him into a face since it looks like he's closer to a heel than Kane at present.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Tbh I quite like the first part of that booking Cal. Ziggler basically being too afraid to cash in on Henry and valiantly hoping someone can beat Henry before the PPV when his shot expires would be the sort of comical heel booking that could be entertaining and add some depth to any Henry title defence with Ziggler waiting in the clutches ready to strike.
> 
> That being said, if I was booking I'd be doing my best to get Ziggler over as a face simply because I believe as a worker the guy would be far better working from underneath rather than controlling a match, plus the 'Showoff' character is so easy to spin from arrogant and cocky into confident and determined and succeed as a babyface. I'd book it along the lines of Ziggler picking up big wins in programs, trying to cash in on Henry but being beaten up before the bell rings, thus technically having not cashed in yet eating a big beating in the process. Everyone expects Ziggler to try again but instead he vows to cash in honorably in a legit match because he's determined to prove he can beat the monster through pride after getting his ass kicked. Announce it around late May - early June in anticipation of the MITB PPV, have everyone write off Ziggler as being plucky and brave but not standing a chance. At the event I'd either have him pin Henry and shock the world, or have him lose in defiant fashion, then build him up for 3-5 months before taking the title off Henry at the second time of asking.
> 
> I also think a scenario similar to Benoit/Lesnar, where someone like Cena or Sheamus would actually tip Ziggler to beat Henry because of how defiant and tenacious he's been could work. Always loved that backstage segment where A Train backed Benoit to win despite having feuded with him for 2 months prior to the match, based solely off of how tough Benoit had proven to be in spite of A Train disliking him.


I think between us we've just booked an awesome WHC angle for the rest of the year lol. Creative have like 10 guys and couldn't come up with anything that good in a month .

Just about to watch Henry/Orton :mark:. Haven't been this excited for an Orton match since... his last series with Henry :lmao.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Henry/Orton is a very good match and arguably Orton's best performance as a face post 2010, hell maybe ever. Henry's story and desire and need to win drives the emotion and drama in the nearfalls but Orton really commits to making Henry look like an irresistable force who he can't beat. Big fan of the closing minutes with Orton looking helpless, trying for one surprise counter, being swatted away by the monster and the succumbing to a final Henry onslaught. Not Henry's best match but very good performances from both added to a great story surrounding Henry's need to complete his career journey by finally winning the big one.

edit: fuck I read that as Henry/Orton NOC 2011 :lmao . Ah well, point remains.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I think Bryan v Kane at Mania could be good. Bryan needs to win though.

Heard Henry/Orton only got about 5 minutes but I'm still gonna watch. Bryan and Mysterio being confirmed for the chamber match has me excited. I'm expecting that to be the clear MOTY heading into Mania. Cena, Ryback and Sheamus v The Shield has potential to be great too. Elimination Chamber really needs to deliver after the massive disappointment known as the Royal Rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched Orton/Henry:



Spoiler: SD this week



Henry rolls over Orton in 5 minutes. Awesome lol. Nothing special, but enjoyable enough for the time it got and the fact Henry wins and looks awesome. Henry, Mysterio, Bryan and Orton in the chamber match. Hopefully Orton ups his game for it. Expecting Swagger to be in it too. Pretty awesome lineup so far. Expecting Kane to also make it in so they can do something with Kane/Bryan. If not Kane... we'd better not fucking get Khali. Sheamus would have been a great addition but he's in the 6 man tag. Christian? I can dream.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I think Bryan v Kane at Mania could be good. Bryan needs to win though.
> 
> Heard Henry/Orton only got about 5 minutes but I'm still gonna watch. Bryan and Mysterio being confirmed for the chamber match has me excited. I'm expecting that to be the clear MOTY heading into Mania. Cena, Ryback and Sheamus v The Shield has potential to be great too. Elimination Chamber really needs to deliver after the massive disappointment known as the Royal Rumble.


I don't think it'll get the necessary time to be great, but hopefully they can pull something good with the lack of time they're likely to be afforded. Agreed on Bryan winning, needs to be booked high up the card post Hell No breakup otherwise they risk floundering him and stifling his popularity which could easily transfer into strong merchandise sales and make them a tidy sum of money.

Excited for Shield vs Cena, Sheamus & Ryback. Praying they'll make it a Chamber match on the go home show just to add to the brutality and violence, though its looking less and less likely. Shield have to go over, preferably with Sheamus eating the pin. I'm expecting a tag at Mania featuring them and if that's the case they've got to be undefeated going into Mania to add intrigue as to whether they'll lose to satisfy the typically pro babyface booking or whether WWE will commit to them enough to put them over. Have them lose here and well the angle loses a bit of intrigue and ambiguity as to when their first loss will occur.

Going to say as well, loving the fact this will only be their 2nd match in 3 months. Feels like WWE are taking care and effort with this angle instead of rushing and making their appearances and matches feel less special. The fact by the time Mania comes around neither of them will have wrestled a singles match is even more impressive in creating this allure and making the first time one of them is placed on their own feel like something people will be interested in seeing. Imagine they could be in some good programs between now and Summerslam if WWE are really committed to making stars out of the three of them.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Shield should go over but I won't be the slightest bit surprised if Cena gets the win for his team. Not sure what tag match they can really book for Mania now that they've made this for EC. Replace Cena with Orton and have the same match? Seems kind of meh.



Big Z said:


> Just watched Orton/Henry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


(Y)



Spoiler: Smackdown



I think you're right, it'll be Henry, Mysterio, Bryan, Orton, Swagger and Kane which looks like a really good lineup. Christian instead of Swagger or Kane would be perfect but can't see it happening.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Sadly, I think they're going to feed The Shield to John Cena to build Cena up even more for his rematch against Rock at Wrestlemania. 

Either that, or they have Cena take the pin in the match and have Cena doubt himself even more heading into Wrestlemania. That scenario isn't likely to happen though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My personal favorite option for the WHC at Mania is Big Show beating Del Rio and Orton winning the chamber. Would love a PPV match between these two as it's never happened before.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Agreed. I see Cena being successful in everything he does straight through to winning the title from The Rock at WM.

edit: Show/Orton doesn't sound good to me at all.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Shield should go over but I won't be the slightest bit surprised if Cena gets the win for his team. Not sure what tag match they can really book for Mania now that they've made this for EC. Replace Cena with Orton and have the same match? Seems kind of meh.


The cynic in me agrees with that fear but I'm gonna give senile Vince the benefit of the doubt that even he sees the benefit of booking this angle in the long term rather than the short term. From what I read their segments seem to be doing fine ratings wise (I don't have time for the ratings discussion but it serves to demonstrate there's no need to wrap up a bombing angle) and their reactions on TV appear consistently strong. Ryback and Cena are obviously not going to take the pin, but Sheamus has eaten enough clean pins to Big Show to be in a position where losing to 3 of the most protected guys on the roster is no disservice to him.

As for Wrestlemania. I guess if Orton/Sheamus doesn't occur then its likely both could be in a tag. I remember hearing rumours about HHH and buddies in a match but I'd sooner avoid that. Wouldn't mind Mysterio being in there if only for his bumping and selling ability, even though they'd have problems slotting him into the angle feasibly. Still a far better alternative to Mysterio/Cara though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> The cynic in me agrees with that fear but I'm gonna give senile Vince the benefit of the doubt that even he sees the benefit of booking this angle in the long term rather than the short term. From what I read their segments seem to be doing fine ratings wise (I don't have time for the ratings discussion but it serves to demonstrate there's no need to wrap up a bombing angle) and their reactions on TV appear consistently strong. Ryback and Cena are obviously not going to take the pin, but Sheamus has eaten enough clean pins to Big Show to be in a position where losing to 3 of the most protected guys on the roster is no disservice to him.
> 
> As for Wrestlemania. I guess if Orton/Sheamus doesn't occur then its likely both could be in a tag. I remember hearing rumours about HHH and buddies in a match but I'd sooner avoid that. Wouldn't mind Mysterio being in there if only for his bumping and selling ability, even though they'd have problems slotting him into the angle feasibly. Still a far better alternative to Mysterio/Cara though.


Strikes me as unrealistic. I'm fully expecting HHH/Lesnar II and Mysterio/Sin Cara.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeesh, can't say either match appeals to me tbh. Mysterio's body is breaking down and I don't think he's the best person to play off of Cara. It would be face/face and I'm just not buying Rey in his current state could put together a match that gets Cara over to the extent the company would depend. Lesnar/HHH would just be a waste really. Lesnar/Taker with HHH playing the HBK role from the Taker/HHH feud in terms of doubting Taker and trying to warn him from making a grave error strikes me as a better way to develop HHH/Lesnar. Not every babyface needs to get the win back, sometimes losing valiantly and waiting for another face to take down the monster can work better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm all for Taker/Lesnar. Much rather see that than HHH/Lesnar II although I thought HHH/Lesnar I was very good and I'd be down to see them work a different type of match. I think we're getting Taker/Punk though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think Taker/Punk would be a fine match, possibly great depending on the length and direction they take. Punk however lacks the star appeal that made for the pulsating atmospheres in Taker/HBK and Taker/HHH. Plus they've built the Steak up as the Marquee match that I fear Punk would look a distant threat if the audience have been pre-conditioned to see Taker fend of HHH and HBK. The problem when Punk is a dependable enough worker to have earnt the right to wrestle Taker but lacks the image and presence that has made Taker's matches at Mania a spectacle since 25.

All I personally want from Taker is a good-great match, so I wouldn't object to the match being booked. Can see why others would want Lesnar/Taker though on account of Lesnar's presence and starpower providing for a true legitimate threat to the Streak.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The IYH set looks cool. I wish Vader/Shamrock was on it, though; that match needs more fans.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Think the best Flair/Windham from '87 is the Worldwide encounter. Want to say 1/20 but could be thinking of Misawa/Kawada Kobashi 1/20 from 10 years later.


;D There is a Flair/Windham on that date, though. The other is 4/11. Again, IDR which is better. 



ATF said:


> **** for Trips/Sucka? Didn't enjoy it that much. Drawn out, boring, a lil sloppy and pointless storyline that had the OBLIGATION of giving Book the title. Too bad HHH was more Super than Cena in 03. The Harlem Hangover was an overall WM 19 highlight though.


I sort of agree with this. I wrote this a while back when watching all of that 2003 HHH, but that COULD have been a really good match had Booker had a better opponent. He looked pretty damn good and it was obvious as shit he was the better guy in the match. Trip had some neat leg work but almost nothing he did looked good. The match was sort of an example of why I think execution of what happens is more important than what actually happens.



Saint Dick said:


> Can't wait to see Mark Henry destroy in the chamber.


I had no intention of watching Elimination Chamber until Henry was announced. He is literally the sole reason I am going to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jan 20th is the awesome Flair/Windham match from 87 . The other is the Crockett Cup match which isn't on the same level, though still great. BOTB II 86 is where it's at though . That really needs to be released on DVD. Do WWE own the Florida library? They do, right?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> The IYH set looks cool. I wish Vader/Shamrock was on it, though; that match needs more fans.
> 
> 
> 
> ;D There is a Flair/Windham on that date, though. The other is 4/11. Again, IDR which is better.


Oh christ, I don't even have the excuse of it being late in the evening when I posted that. Good grief.

Ah, good to know I was thinking of the right date. I remember the April match being the 'lesser' of the three matches they had from BOTB II-Crocket Cup. Not like the April match isn't very good in its own right, but I always thought BOTB II and Worldwide where the standard by which their matches would be measured.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Mark Henry vs Randy Orton (8/2/13)



Spoiler: review



Henry is still doing good as the kick-ass monster and Orton's offense is for once more varied instead of the same patterned 5 moves of doom he's been using for a while. Not quite the squash match some said it was but it still doesn't last very long and Henry gets the WSM on Orton with ease and wins with very little struggle. Fuck whoever booked this match to be this short. They have enough time to waste on a Khali match and other stupid shit but this one merely gets 5 minutes? Fuck you! Would have rated this better had it lasted a bit longer and had Orton had a bigger chance of actually looking on par with Henry instead of a high level jobber. I just hope Orton wins the chamber now that he's been punished enough for the past year and a half with shit. ★★


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I grabbed Satan's Prison and am currently downloading EC 2011/2012, looking forward to running through them. I'm a huge mark for the Elimination Chamber, love it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Also looking forward to the SD chamber. If Kane gets added, then they can plant the seeds for Bryan/Kane's inevitable clash at Mania (although I'd rather Bryan be doing something better). Henry destroying everyone/the pods should be entertaining. 

Shield 6-man should be great. As WOOLCOCK said, I'm loving the fact that this is only their second match in 3 months. Definitely adds to their mystique and makes me want to actually pay to see them perform, especially since their first match was so great.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched Mark 'somebody gon get their wig split' Henry v Daniel Bryan in the cage for the first time. IMMENSE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I miss Bryan's title reign. Hope he has a main event program this year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That match is Henry/Punk type of awesome. Not sure which I think is better.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Gonna rewatch the cage match now. Got a good link?

edit He wasn't champ yet for this one? The cage match when he was champ must've been the triple threat. Got confused. Still would like to see this, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Just watched Mark 'somebody gon get their wig split' Henry v Daniel Bryan in the cage for the first time. IMMENSE.


Honestly leaning on it being my TV MOTY for 2011. Masters/Mcintyre Superstars in May and Cena/Mysterio Raw jump out as being better, but I adore everything they achieve in such short time. Its definitely my favourite of the year.

Henry is better than Bryan imo which really demonstrates his ability when you factor in Bryan was excellent as the passionate and fiery babyface. Loved how Henry sold the ankle well enough to make it obvious he was hindered and vulnerable, yet he was still able to retain his aura and presence to make Bryan's plight engaging and dramatic. Bryan bumped tremendously and I loved how he altered his plan from fending Henry off and looking to escape, to trying to actively win the match when he notices Henry's ankle hurting him. LOVED the callback to their first match in early Novemeber when Henry countered the Lebell lock by deadlifting Bryan. He does it again only this time Bryan is aware and slips into a submission targeting the ankle to surprise Henry. Such smart work with a great heel and face peformance, strong nearfalls timed superbly and a conclusive finish which protects Bryan and makes Henry look incredible and tenacious.

@ TLK


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Henry's selling of the ankle in this is fucking awesome :lmao

edit Bryan just got fucking destroyed by a clothesline


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Gonna rewatch the cage match now. Got a good link?
> 
> edit He wasn't champ yet for this one? The cage match when he was champ must've been the triple threat. Got confused. Still would like to see this, though.


You're thinking about the triple threat against Henry and Show when Bryan was champ. That was solid but doesn't hold a candle to Henry/Bryan.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Honestly leaning on it being my TV MOTY for 2011. Masters/Mcintyre Superstars in May and Cena/Mysterio Raw jump out as being better, but I adore everything they achieve in such short time. Its definitely my favourite of the year.
> 
> Henry is better than Bryan imo which really demonstrates his ability when you factor in Bryan was excellent as the passionate and fiery babyface. Loved how Henry sold the ankle well enough to make it obvious he was hindered and vulnerable, yet he was still able to retain his aura and presence to make Bryan's plight engaging and dramatic. Bryan bumped tremendously and I loved how he altered his plan from fending Henry off and looking to escape, to trying to actively win the match when he notices Henry's ankle hurting him. LOVED the callback to their first match in early Novemeber when Henry countered the Lebell lock by deadlifting Bryan. He does it again only this time Bryan is aware and slips into a submission targeting the ankle to surprise Henry. Such smart work with a great heel and face peformance, strong nearfalls timed superbly and a conclusive finish which protects Bryan and makes Henry look incredible and tenacious.


It's the absolute perfect 10 minute cage match. Agreed about Henry being the better guy in it, which says a hell of a lot because I don't think Bryan could've offered anything more as a babyface in a David v Goliath type match. They were both fantastic.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Bryan is absolutely fantastic in those matches with Henry. Never been a fan of Henry, still not.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> It's the absolute perfect 10 minute cage match. Agreed about Henry being the better guy in it, which says a hell of a lot because I don't think Bryan could've offered anything more as a babyface in a David v Goliath type match. They were both fantastic.


Honestly might be the best work Bryan's done in WWE, even if Extreme Rules vs Sheamus and Over The Limit vs Punk are better matches. He plays the babyface looking to win the biggest match of his career as well as he's ever done and like you said could barely have done anything more to raise his performance. Henry was just indescribably good and it saddens me there are people who'll still call Henry subpar even when he's knocking out performances of that quality. To sell as well as he did and still make Bryan the clear underdog and elevate him to the extent he did is excellent work by Henry, and Bryan demonstrated how well he can work when he's not confined to a comedy character and short tag team matches.

Thoughts on Mcinytre/Masters May 2011 btw? I adore it and think its the best match during the 09-11 Superstars era of great TV matches. Arguably Masters' best performance from his 2010-11 run as well which is truly saying something for how consistent he was on a week to week basis.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No joke when did Henry become such a strong worker? I don't recall much gold from him prior to his 2011 run.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry/Punk and Henry/Bryan were 2 awesome TV feuds. I think I'd rank the top stuff as:

Henry/Punk I > Henry/Bryan Cage > Henry/Punk III

second Henry/Punk isn't anything, I seem to recall it being quick and with a DQ finish. Don't remember any other Henry/Bryan matches well enough. Cage with Henry/Bryan/Show is fun but not much else.

EDIT: Henry showed signs of greatness a bunch of times prior to his 2011 run, but he was never consistent at all. You can see some good stuff from him going back all the way to 02, then a little big here and there pretty much every year afterwards, but it only seemed to be for a couple of matches at a time, or a match or two spread out over the year so you never really noticed.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> No joke when did Henry become such a strong worker? I don't recall much gold from him prior to his 2011 run.


I think its clear the potential has always been there. 2006 was arguably the first year he got a real chance to work the monster heel run up the card and he shined with the Mysterio matches in particular really sticking out as excellent david vs goliath matches. After that he had some very good matches and performances in 2008 when he was ECW Champ and feuding with Matt Hardy, then he petered out and turned face for the best part of a couple of years before the heel turn and greatness that was 2011. Think he had a fun match vs Orton as a super face as a surprise opponent one night on Raw, but that was about it.

Its clear though the monster heel role is something he was born to play. He's an agile bumper as well for a man his size but its the way he implements his charisma and presence into his work that makes his control segments so entertaining and investing in his matches. He bumps well, strings a smart match together and knows how to time the big spots and moments in a match in a way that will draw a reaction. A very smart, astute and overlooked worker who understands the importance of perfecting the fundamentals to compensate for his size meaning he lacks the agility to wrestle a more 'entertaining' match to casuals.

edit Cal the first Henry/Bryan match from November is very good for the time given. Goes about 6 minutes but they work in a really good shine period for Bryan where he obliterates Henry and the crowd goes ballistic and it comes off as the moment in the match that really showcased how invested the crowd could be in a Bryan/Henry match. They have a match the week after which was a lesser bout and more of a Henry domination.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Thoughts on Mcinytre/Masters May 2011 btw? I adore it and think its the best match during the 09-11 Superstars era of great TV matches. Arguably Masters' best performance from his 2010-11 run as well which is truly saying something for how consistent he was on a week to week basis.


Haven't seen it. Took a pretty long break from wrestling around then which is why I'm only now seeing Bryan/Henry for the first time. Missed most (basically all) of Masters' second stint in the company. I'll have to give that match a look when I get the chance, along with the Masters/Ziggler match that HayleySabin loves.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Pretty great way of putting it, WOOLCOCK. Does he still do that move that's a guillotine on the middle rope but he slides through the ropes to the outside? I've always found that to be extremely impressive for a man his size.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Haven't seen it. Took a pretty long break from wrestling around then which is why I'm only now seeing Bryan/Henry for the first time. Missed most (basically all) of Masters' second stint in the company. I'll have to give that match a look when I get the chance, along with the Masters/Ziggler match that HayleySabin loves.


Oh man, you're in for a treat. Amazing limb selling from Masters, great control segment by Mcintyre, smart structure from Mcintyre being frustrated and overwhelmed early, then a gloriously cocky and methodical bastard when in control, great teasing of the Masters comeback before a smart finishing stretch with Masters incorporating his injury into his offence, a smart callback spot to a short February Smackdown match between them and a great finish with brilliant selling that completes the entire story. Their August 2010 encounter is also very good, albeit just below. Its 8/26 and has Regal/Goldust as the opener in another strong showing.

Masters/Ziggler is excellent and surreal. All built around the Masterlock vs The Sleeper and its amazing how well Masters bumps and times everything. Between the pair of them they make the battle to lock on their submission the decisive issue in who wins the match and its such smart work and credit to both that the fans are into it considering how basic and simple it is.

Honestly Masters' run was rivalling Christian's 2009 in terms of consistently great week to week performances and matches. Doesn't have the coup de grace that is Christian/Swagger 2/24/09, but he was putting in wonderful performances every week, got himself very over considering he was a glorified curtain jerker and was sadly saddled by his past reputation and violating two wellness tests meaning they never trusted him enough to put him on TV even in a small midcard push.



The Lady Killer said:


> Pretty great way of putting it, WOOLCOCK. Does he still do that move that's a guillotine on the middle rope but he slides through the ropes to the outside? I've always found that to be extremely impressive for a man his size.




can't recall for certain. Think it varies on a match to match basis. Guess the only way he'd drop it is if his knees began to play up and it proved an unwanted hassle.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've always been a huge Masters fan, even when everyone shat on him. That being said, I haven't seen these matches, either. Guess I know what I'm watching next.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I've always been a huge Masters fan, even when everyone shat on him. That being said, I haven't seen these matches, either. Guess I know what I'm watching next.


Its honestly terrible that he didn't get as good as he did until after his first release from the company and subsequent return. He'd have been hampered by being a heel, but just knowing what could have been if he didn't have an untrustworthy reputation in spite of cleaning himself up and supposedly becoming more dependable and professional backstage.

Masters vs Mcintyre 5/12/11







Masters vs Mcintyre 8/26/10












Masters vs Ziggler 5/13/10


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Henry really started coming into his own in 2006 since he finally received an opportunity to actually be able to showcase his ability. I'm almost done with January 2006 for my Smackdown 2006 project and Henry has been pretty awesome so far. His performance in the World Heavyweight Championship Battle Royal was awesome when he made even big guys like Lashley look like complete GEEKS next to him. He was also awesome in his match against Rey Mysterio the next week, especially when he nearly killed Mysterio with a clothesline.

I'm a bit late when it comes to this, but :mark: if we get Del Rio/Henry at Wrestlemania. It would probably be one of the best matches of the night if they received about 10-15 minutes. It would be even sweeter if they put the belt on Henry but I have a feeling this match will just lead to Henry losing, Henry killing Del Rio after the match, and Ziggler cashing in his Money in the Bank contract.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

GOON The Legend said:


> I'm a bit late when it comes to this, but :mark: if we get Del Rio/Henry at Wrestlemania. It would probably be one of the best matches of the night if they received about 10-15 minutes. It would be even sweeter if they put the belt on Henry but I have a feeling this match will just lead to Henry losing, Henry killing Del Rio after the match, and Ziggler cashing in his Money in the Bank contract.


Win-win, imo. Henry as champ or Henry killing ADR afterwards so that DOLPH can cash in are both good outcomes. Think the smark NY crowd would lose their shit if DOLPH cashed in and won the title.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I see the possibility in Henry decimating Del Rio leading to the cash in. But atm I'm thinking Del Rio retains to try and make him appear a legit champion and raise his stock. Looks like Henry will rightfully go undefeated into Mania and after presumably beating Big Show for the third time at EC, Del Rio having to take on another monster heel and do what only Big Show could manage in 2011 sets the stage for a pretty interesting title match. Would not disapprove of Henry winning the belt and having Del Rio chase him for a couple of months and delaying the essential Henry defeat where he puts over a new star. Either direction if handled with care should be entertaining and produce great rewards.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ziggler/Masters was really good. Like REALLY good. Can't believe Masters was able to improve that much.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yup, its brilliant in how great he became and is a nice story that time away to develop and mature can indeed work wonders. But its also sad to see him get released despite being a top 5 worker in the company and actively improve his performances and apparently backstage demeanour. At least we got a great year and a bit out of him at a time when Superstars was afforded some of the better overlooked talents, but its still depressing to see some wastes of space on the roster and think Masters and Gallows in particular are no longer with the company.

He was arguably 2nd to only Christian in terms of limb selling and babyface work in his comeback. Every match was built around his comeback and the Masterlock. He busted his ass taking some great bumps and timing his offence excellently. Got over with the crowd despite having non existant storylines and getting no attention or spotlight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Think I'll give those Masters matches a watch later. It's a shame they released him after he had improved so much.

*Smackdown 14/4/2006:*

JBL vs Chris Benoit (Steel Cage) - ★★★½
- Excellent match and they actually get a decent amount of time to go at it. Benoit is always great at playing the intense wrestling machine despite his size and JBL is about as good a heel as one can get. They have always meshed together well and this one makes up for their lackluster Wrestlemania match. Some awesome spots like the Russian Leg Sweep and German Suplex off the top rope. I also liked the WM recall with JBL reversing the Crossface into a roll-up but this time Benoit kicks out instead of holding on. I hate one thing about the finish, though. That's the fact they play it up as if disqualifications exist in cage matches. It's obviously "turned off" yet they show JBL's lowblow that helps him escape "away from the referee" just to make it look unclean. Lowblows and interference is legal, so might as well just continue doing your job as referee! Otherwise, this was a great match and one of my favorite cage matches.

Kurt Angle vs Randy Orton - ★★½
- First round of _King of the Ring_ tournament and this match sets it off. A little rushed because Orton was about to serve his two month suspension. Orton works on Angle's shoulder and Angle spends most of the match selling with the exception of constantly going for the Ankle Lock which Orton sells to perfection until it's grapevined and Orton taps out for the ending. Could have been better given more time but since Angle was going to work the dark match afterward, they probably wanted to not over-work him. Post-match, Angle locks in the Ankle Lock a couple of more times and Orton sells it like he's received a broken ankle which officially marks the writing off for him and marks the end of this awesome chapter in his career as part of Smackdown. Fun while it lasted!

And since champions not appearing on the show is fresh on everyone's mind, I found it strange that Rey Mysterio no showed this episode other than a video package (could swear they did the same thing with Benoit after Backlash 04) dedicated to him. He was on the dark match so I have no idea what held him back from appearing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why did Masters get released the 2nd time? Was that part of the annual "Spring Cleaning" of the roster?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Why did Masters get released the 2nd time? Was that part of the annual "Spring Cleaning" of the roster?


As far as I recall, that was pretty much it. He had two violations from his first stint and so was pretty much isolated in terms of how far he could progress because of what a potential third strike would mean. It was clear he was never making it past sparse Smackdown appearances and he was let go alongside Gallows. Two guys with potential and talent released whilst some utter dross is left on the roster. Sigh.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yup, its brilliant in how great he became and is a nice story that time away to develop and mature can indeed work wonders. But its also sad to see him get released despite being a top 5 worker in the company and actively improve his performances and apparently backstage demeanour. At least we got a great year and a bit out of him at a time when Superstars was afforded some of the better overlooked talents, but its still depressing to see some wastes of space on the roster and think Masters and Gallows in particular are no longer with the company.
> 
> He was arguably 2nd to only Christian in terms of limb selling and babyface work in his comeback. Every match was built around his comeback and the Masterlock. He busted his ass taking some great bumps and timing his offence excellently. Got over with the crowd despite having non existant storylines and getting no attention or spotlight.


He got the crowd to pop for a near countout finish like midway through the match. On WWE's C show. That alone speaks volumes about his performance and how well the match was worked. It's a shame he wasn't putting in displays like this in his first run when they were intent on pushing him.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yup, he only has himself to blame for how he acted in his first stint. By all accounts though his release and return was for the better and he acknowlodged his own stupidity in wasting such a great opportunity. Pretty sure he might have outbumped Ziggler in their match as well. Dude really utilised every match to showcase he should be on the main roster and wasn't afraid to take some manly bumps for a guy of his size.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What I really hate about the whole Masters thing is that he was almost what they want. In his first run he had the great look but he wasn't very good so they didn't want to use him. in the second run he still had the look (hell, a better look since he wasn't THAT jacked), and was a fucking awesome wrestler (like, legit as good as anyone in the company during the whole year of 2010 other than Rey and maybe Christian) and they still didn't want to use him. Then HHH tells him he's gotten better and they want to do something with him and they fuck him off. This is all while a wrestler like JTG is still employed. There can be almost nothing to explain it.

edit- I don't think Masters' 2010 rivals Christian's 09, though.



GOON The Legend said:


> Henry really started coming into his own in 2006 since he finally received an opportunity to actually be able to showcase his ability. I'm almost done with January 2006 for my Smackdown 2006 project and Henry has been pretty awesome so far. His performance in the World Heavyweight Championship Battle Royal was awesome when he made even big guys like Lashley look like complete GEEKS next to him. He was also awesome in his match against Rey Mysterio the next week, especially when he nearly killed Mysterio with a clothesline.


You just wait for that awesome match Henry has with Taker. Or the aftermath of a Henry/Hardy match where Henry yells at the crowd that he'll 'eat their face off'.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh I'd put Christian's 09 ahead of it, I was just using his year as a point of comparison in how well Masters was working on a week to week basis. He might have only managed to get enough time to deliver a handful of really great matches, but his ratio of good-very good especially with the time he was given was remarkably high and I can't recall anything close to a bad performance from him.

The entire timing of his run is so unlucky. Unfortunately he was brash, reckless and naive in his first stint and it gave him a stigma of being too risky to push in spite of his obvious talent, hardwork and ability to work a crowd incredibly well for someone given little to nothing to work with in terms of programs or feuds. Did it ever become apparent where he went in between his release and return? Sure I heard rumours about Japan but can't recall exactly. Wherever he did go deserves all the credit in the world for how they improved/motivated him.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> What I really hate about the whole Masters thing is that he was almost what they want. In his first run he had the great look but he wasn't very good so they didn't want to use him. in the second run he still had the look (hell, a better look since he wasn't THAT jacked), and was a fucking awesome wrestler (like, legit as good as anyone in the company during the whole year of 2010 other than Rey and maybe Christian) and they still didn't want to use him. Then HHH tells him he's gotten better and they want to do something with him and they fuck him off. This is all while a wrestler like JTG is still employed. There can be almost nothing to explain it.


Yeah exactly. Even if they didn't want to push him that high up the card he could be having good matches as a mid-card babyface making better use of that position than guys like Miz and Kofi Kingston.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure he went to Puerto Rico, and I'm fairly sure he worked for Inoki in Japan as well.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Judgment Day 2004 - WWE World Heavyweight Championship: Eddie Guerrero vs. John Bradshaw Layfield*

Hands down one of the most AWESOME, BLOODY, VIOLENT & HATE filled matches in WWE history. And tbf that's all people remember but theirs so much more than that. With Eddie just beating the shit out of him for like 10 straight minutes until the brutal chair shot which was made too look more brutal cause of the blade job by Eddie. From that this just ended up being a total brawlfeast with a chaotic ending. I HIGHLY recommend that you see this match as soon as possible. ****1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Eddie/JBL is outstanding. MOTY for 2004, most likely worldwide except for Hashimoto/Kawada, Takayama/Kobashi and Santo/Perro depending on how good it is on a rewatch.

Eddie is as good as ever as the plucky, fiery and passionate babyface out for JBL's blood. JBL proves he's a capable and handy worker as the violent bully brutalising a defenceless and helpless Eddie. The emotion, tension and drama as the blood covers the canvas and Eddie looks on the verge of defeat is astounding. Eddie's comeback and build is wonderfully done and arguably the highpoint of the match and the subsequent beating of JBL is emphatic and advances the feud. DQ finish is also ingenious in protecting JBL who couldn't lose his first title match whilst allowing for Eddie to keep the title since he couldn't lose to JBL as well as providing for a legitimate claim for a rematch with JBL being able to claim Eddie did it deliberately to protect the title. Top 15 match in company history and a true gem.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Pretty sure he went to Puerto Rico, and I'm fairly sure he worked for Inoki in Japan as well.


Masters? He's working all over the place. US, PR, Japan, England, Rome, that Indian TNA affiliate. Don't think he's really under contract anywhere.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Would be awesome if he returned as part of this apparent "bring back former talent" thing that WWE are supposed to be doing (has anyone actually returned through this yet though lol?). Though working for TNA's India thing might mean he ends up in TNA, possibly in Aces & Eights will atm would be terrible because they are fucking that group up on a weekly basis.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Masters? He's working all over the place. US, PR, Japan, England, Rome, that Indian TNA affiliate. Don't think he's really under contract anywhere.


I think Cal was addressing my query about where Masters went in between his first release and subsequent return  .

Good to hear he's getting regular work though. I recall he was in Ra Ka King as a heel and having some fun matches, deserves to get some regular exposure. Doubt he'll get to go to New Japan but if he did that would be a great accolade for him even if its highly unlikely.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Some more Smackdown 2006~!

*Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio - January 27th, 2006
*This is a rematch from last week and even though it wasn't as good, it was still pretty fun/good. It started out with Mysterio attacking Henry on the apron before Henry entered the ring in an attempt to get a jump on the big man. It didn't seem to help, as this match was all Henry until the final three minutes or so, when Mysterio made a comeback that was pretty fun to watch, which started with Mysterio outsmarting Henry by crawling under the ring, crawling out of the other side, and leaping onto Henry, knocking Henry down. Henry eventually put Mysterio away and this match mainly served the purpose of putting Henry over for his World Heavyweight title match against Kurt Angle at the Royal Rumble and making Rey Mysterio look credible by having the UNBEATABLE~! Mark Henry on the ropes (literally because he hit him with the 619~!) When it comes to Henry/Mysterio matches, this one seems to be forgotten even though it was pretty good in its own right. Only reason I'm not going three stars for this match is because I don't feel it is as good as their match last week (which I rated ***) but I'll put it just a notch below their match last week.
*Rating: **3/4*

*Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) - January 27th, 2006
*These two started off the match with some technical wrestling, but that all came to an end about six minutes into the match when Orton hit Benoit in the head with a trash can lid. After that, this match turned into a pretty great match/brawl, with each man getting their shots in and not one man being in control for too long, just like in their previous match two weeks before. This wasn't like some No Holds Barred matches where they a ton of weapons were involved, as the weapon that was actually used was a trash can. The trash can was used smartly as well, as Orton nailed Benoit with a shot to the head with it before a commercial break and Orton using it to defend himself from a diving headbutt from Benoit. It also played a role in the finish as well, as Benoit used it to stagger Orton when he hit Orton in the head with the lid and then put the dazed Orton in the cross face. I think I enjoyed this match just a bit more than their match two weeks before, but not by much. The only real negative to this match was Orton's CHINLOCKS~! but outside of that, this was a great match. This one will be in the top five of my list by the time I'm done with this project.
*Rating: ****1/4*

EDIT- JBL/Eddie from Judgement Day 2004 was just fantastic on almost every level. The great thing is that it was one of the few matches in WWE history where they hype it up as both guys basically wanting to kill each other and they end up delivering on that hype. Most personal feuds like that end up delivering a boring, nonviolent match even though they're supposed to hate each other (SEE: Orton/HHH at Wrestlemania 25). HHH/Orton at Wrestlemania 25 should have been an all out brawl, but it ended up being a boring, straight up wrestling match where they seemed content just to out-wrestle each other.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I think Cal was addressing my query about where Masters went in between his first release and subsequent return  .
> 
> Good to hear he's getting regular work though. I recall he was in Ra Ka King as a heel and having some fun matches, deserves to get some regular exposure. Doubt he'll get to go to New Japan but if he did that would be a great accolade for him even if its highly unlikely.


I think he DID work for IGF, but not New Japan. He's had a good bunch of matches overall, but he's mostly been working heel.

He should definitely come back to McMahon Land.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Ziggler/Masters was really good. Like REALLY good. Can't believe Masters was able to improve that much.


(Y)

One of the best I've seen in years. Masters also has another stellar match vs McIntyre in 2011 _(b/c I noticed WOOLCOCK pimped out the first from 2010 to you)_ if you're looking for more if not all of Masters' prime bouts from his 2009 - 2011 tenure.

I really should give that lengthy match vs Chavo from Superstars in 2010 another shot. It's Yeah1993 approved. Maybe I was too frustrated with Chavo having to work with guys like JTG & MVP, aka the matches SUCKED, then he goes with Masters and there was still a remaining stigma. idk. It'll only take 8 minutes of my time.

btw, Masters vs Bourne from 9/3/09 IMO.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*MNM vs. The Mexi-Cools - February 3rd, 2006
*I decided to watch this match because of who was involved and I'm glad that I did. The Mexi-Cools start off on fire by quickly putting MNM on the defensive and Super Crazy even jumps over the referee to take out both Nitro and Mercury on the outside of the ring before a commercial break. When we returned, Psychosis (sp?) plays the FIP and does a good job of it before making the hot tag to Super Crazy, who comes in and cleans house like every other face does in tag matches. He nearly gets the win with a tornado DDT but Mercury breaks up the three count. Melina "hurts" her ankle when Mercury accidentally knocks her off of the apron, which causes her to take her boot off. This plays into the finish, as Super Crazy goes to the top rope for a moonsult but Melina hits him in the face with her boot, which allows Mercury to cover Super Crazy for the victory. This match only received about seven minutes but this was AWESOME~! for the seven minutes it received.
*Rating: ***1/4 *

*Midget in Blue vs. Midget in Black - February 3rd, 2006
*I don't know what their names are, but this was just pure fun and wacky for the three minutes it received. I probably enjoyed this match more than most of the matches in today's WWE just because of how fun and entertaining this was. I probably enjoyed this more than most because of my sense of humor but I don't care. It wouldn't be fair to slap a star rating onto this since this wasn't meant to be a serious match but at the end of the day, this was AWESOME~!
*Rating: ***** on the FUN and WACKY~! SCALE*

*Chris Benoit vs. Finlay - February 3rd, 2006
*I'm going to confess that this is my first ever time watching these two men wrestle. These men both work extremely stiff with each other and some of the blows that these two men dealt out to each other I felt at my desk as I watched this match. This match only received about six minutes before the disqualification ending but this was hard-hitting fun for those six minutes. I can see myself enjoying their matches later in the year, which go much longer than six minutes and get a lot of love in this thread. Needless to say, I'm hyped to see these guys go for an extended period of time.
*Rating: **1/2* 

*Kurt Angle and Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton and Mark Henry - February 3rd, 2006
*The match started off Kurt Angle and Randy Orton, but Orton wanted Mysterio so Angle tagged in Mysterio. Orton and Mysterio went at it and Mysterio wanted to kill Orton since this was the show where Orton said that Eddie Guerrero was in hell. Mysterio plays the face in peril for a couple of minutes until he makes the tag to Kurt Angle who comes in and gets his shots in before switching roles with Mysterio and playing the FIP. Angle makes the hot tag to Mysterio, but not before having an exchange with Orton where they exchange uppercuts, which I found awesome. In the end, the match comes down to Orton and Mysterio as Angle chased Daivari through the crowd and Henry (slowly) followed them in a desperate attempt to save his manager. This match was fine although I feel that these four could have produced something much better.
*Rating: **1/4*

Oh, and I've decided to add some Pay Per Views to this "project" of mine. By that, I mean that I'll be adding the Smackdown exclusive Pay Per Views to this (No Way Out, Judgment Day, Great American Bash, No Mercy, and Armageddon). I didn't add the "big four" shows because 1) I don't want to waste the time downloading them and 2) I don't recall any good Smackdown matches taking place on any of those shows outside of Angle/Orton/Mysterio from Wrestlemania 22 but that match isn't good enough to warrant me downloading all of the "big four" shows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good move on deciding to toss in some PPVs. Mostly on the front of seeing what Benoit vs Finlay can look like with more than 6 minutes.



Spoiler: Finlay vs Benoit 2006 tidbits



They do lock it up again before Judgment Day and got nearly 18, which is also excellent. If not slightly better than the PPV match. Only put this in spoiler tags b/c I wasn't sure if you knew and didn't want to spoil without a subtle hint. idk. I can talk about their matches for days. Same with Regal vs Benoit or Regal vs Finlay. Those were the kings of 2006 on Smackdown looking back. If not Henry, Orton, & Undertaker respectively too. Damn that roster was stacked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Off the top of my head, the only big 4 PPV SD matches worth seeing are Benoit/JBL WM and Undertaker/Kennedy SS. However if you don't think much to Undertaker/Kennedy NM then don't bother with SS because it's not as good. Benoit/JBL is good though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series
No Mercy
Armageddon

That's where I rank the Undertaker vs Kennedy matches. Their No Mercy match is weird. Part of me feels like I shouldn't enjoy it, but I do. Last Ride match is bleh.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

*123 Kid vs. Diesel - January 15, 1994*
This was a delightfully great 7-8 minute match between someone who can bump great and someone who's great at just throwing fuckers around, it certainly doesn't hurt that these two are great friends so they're more inclined to bump and make their buddy look extra special. Waltman is such a great worker in this time frame. He bumps like crazy regardless of who he's in there with and just excels in these David vs. Goliath matches. He works these style of matches perfectly and sells the FIP tremendously. Nash is well...what you'd expect. He's still green as fuck around this time, but that doesn't matter cause all he has to do is toss Waltman around like a rag doll and Kid is gonna do the rest and make Nash look great, which he does. Crowd was hot and eating up every bit of Waltman's offense, you could really tell the people around this bought really bought into Kid's gimmick that he could beat anybody on any night so kudos to Waltman for that. Finish was kind of lame and out of nowhere, but I really can't remember if Diesel had an established finisher during this time so that could be the reason. Regardless, it's always fun to see Kliq members tangling and always extra fun to watch Waltman bump around like crazy. ***1/2*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Survivor Series
> No Mercy
> Armageddon
> 
> That's where I rank the Undertaker vs Kennedy matches. Their No Mercy match is weird. Part of me feels like I shouldn't enjoy it, but I do. Last Ride match is bleh.


The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nürnberg, Germany 08/11/2006 - ****1/4
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ****1/4
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Armageddon December 17th 2006 - ***1/2
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Survivor Series November 26th 2006 - ***1/2

CAL HAS SPOKEN


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't think any of them made it to 3 stars for me :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> I don't think any of them made it to 3 stars for me :lol


Bah, what do you know? YOU AREN'T THE ALMIGHTY CAL.

ALL HAIL CAL.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Since when do you have confidence and put yourself over? NEW CAL?

This has inspired me to watch all 3 matches right now. Gives me something to do while I wait for Smackdown to come on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All 3? There are FOUR. Someone can't count . CAL CAN COUNT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I DON'T HAVE THE ONE FROM GERMANY.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> I DON'T HAVE THE ONE FROM GERMANY.


Pssh, excuses. You just don't want to watch the awesomeness!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CAL HAS THE ONE FROM GERMANY.

CAL 3 CODY 0.

I could always upload it again. It was on MU. Bah. Might be online somewhere else though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I guess I'm CAL for today. Can't get anything going for me.

I could look and see if it's out there. I'm not too bothered with trying atm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YOU ONLY WISH YOU COULD BE CAL TODAY. ALL HAIL CAL.

Now go look up the Germany match. Its a house show, so its a ton of fun. They can do more shit there than on TV/PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Found nothing. 

Only stumbled upon The Undertaker vs Jim Powers. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well being as NON CAL as you are you'd probably enjoy that trash more anyway. YOU SUCK CODY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WHAT'S WITH THE AGGRESSION BRO?

God damn, that hype video for Taker vs Kennedy is boss. I forgot how much I liked Kennedy once upon a time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If there's one thing WWE can almost always do right, it's DEM HYPE VIDEOS. Hell, the one last year almost even got me interested in Rock/Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels (Cyber Sunday 2007)
- Not as good as the follow-up at Survivor Series but highly enjoyable match. Shawn spends most of it working on Orton's left arm while Orton mostly uses restholds. Not the best when it comes to an exciting but I was into it the whole way through. Crowd could have been better and all, but solid match. Also the finish makes sense. HBK goes for his 5 moves of doom and when Sweet Chin Music is coming up, Orton gets desperate and hits him in the nuts to retain his title via DQ. ★★★½

And random thing I noticed: Orton changed from white wrist tapes to black the week after Benoit's death.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

DAT SURVIVOR SERIES MATCH :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> WHAT'S WITH THE AGGRESSION BRO?
> 
> God damn, that hype video for Taker vs Kennedy is boss. I forgot how much I liked Kennedy once upon a time.


THE GOOD NAME OF CAL HAS BEEN BESMIRCHED FOR TOO LONG. HONOUR MUST BE RESTORED.

Kennedy was awesome during that time period. Coming back from injury mid-06 to when he got injured mid-07 is when he was at his absolute BEST. Kinda sad that his prime was for one year... over 5 years ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> THE GOOD NAME OF CAL HAS BEEN BESMIRCHED FOR TOO LONG. HONOUR MUST BE RESTORED.
> 
> Kennedy was awesome during that time period. Coming back from injury mid-06 to when he got injured mid-07 is when he was at his absolute BEST. Kinda sad that his prime was for one year... over 5 years ago.


No Mercy in the books. Went up 1/4* from my original rating. It now sits at ***. Undertaker's approach to the match is awesome. Controlling the majority of it with his legit veteran means. It's quite a bit of fun...until Kennedy starts to dictate the pace. He's so disjointed in what approach he wants to take. Does he want to pound Taker into submission or does he want to injure and work over a body part? He's beyond sloppy. He really isn't any form of good at all. Match only has high points when Taker is on the offensive. You can see this is a CLEAR carry job. Left soured when for a patch of sequences you hear Kennedy calling out the spots a moment or two before the happen. It almost looks like Undertaker is visibly pissed off at him towards the end. Add in a finish that I still to this day don't care for and it averages out to a fun match at best. I'm shocked you think so highly of it, quite frankly. It proves too things: Undertaker is the man. Kennedy is trash.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Mark Henry cut a hell of a promo on SD


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I never truly appreciate Henry until his 2011 run. Now when I go back and watch his '06 stuff I actually really enjoy it. Would not be against seeing him get another reign. Even a long one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I REALLY loved that Taker-Kennedy first blood match more than anybody else probably should.

It's such a shame that outside of his peak that Kennedy is such a terrible piece of shit and incredibly overrated on the mic by TNA super-marks. Some of Kennedy's / Anderson's matches that I have seen have been among some of the worst ever. FUCK THAT GUY honestly


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just went on a Chris Jericho rampage on a compilation DVD set I bought on IOffer a couple of years ago. Jericho rocked in '98.

Jericho & Guerrero vs. Malenko & Chavo _(2/9/98 Nitro)_ ****3/4*
Jericho & Guerrero vs. Benoit & Malenko _(2/16/98 Nitro)_ ****1/2*
Jericho vs. Juvi _(2/22/98 SuperBrawl)_ ******
Chris Jericho vs. Dean Malenko _(3/15/98, Uncensored)_ ****1/4*
Chris Jericho vs. Juvi _(3/16/98, Nitro)_ ****1/4*

Watch these matches, Junior!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ANOTHER random topic since we're on the subject of Taker ; Five best opponents that AREN'T SHAWN MICHAELS ?

.... AAAANNNDDDD Go.

:jpl


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Just went on a Chris Jericho rampage on a compilation DVD set I bought on IOffer a couple of years ago. Jericho rocked in '98.
> 
> Jericho & Guerrero vs. Malenko & Chavo _(2/9/98 Nitro)_ ****3/4*


This match rules the world and everyone should definitely watch it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> ANOTHER random topic since we're on the subject of Taker ; Five best opponents that AREN'T SHAWN MICHAELS ?
> 
> .... AAAANNNDDDD Go.
> 
> :jpl


TRIPLA-HAITCH
Edge
Batista
Bret Hart
BORKLASER


Went through more of WAPW (WeAreProWrestling)'s stuff. Here's how he ranked every single WWE Title match at WM:


> 1 - The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin WM17 - *****
> 2 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels WM12 - *****
> 3 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels WM23 - ****3/4
> 4 - The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin WM15 - ****1/2
> ...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

John Cena/HBK that high?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

For what it's worth, I think the Iron Man match between HBK and Bret is the single most overrated match of all-time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^ Not as much as Savage vs Steamboat WM3 IMO to be honest.

Cena/HBK at ****3/4, I disagree. A great match, but Flair/Savage deserved that rating much more. Still, after reading his WM23 review, he said some of the rating was biased because we went at the Ford Field for WM23. I feel Batista/Taker from that night though does deserve ****3/4.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Rock/Austin I at **** 1/2 stood out most to me.


----------



## ShinyaNaKano56 (Aug 17, 2012)

I have these dvd's for sale:

WWF
Hell Yeah
Mick Foley Hard Knocks & Cheap Pops
Hardcore
Lita It Just Feels Right
Before They Were Superstars
Action
Undertaker This Is My Yard
The Rock Just Bring It!
Hardy Boys Leap Of Faith
Stone Cold Steve Austin What?
Austin 3:16 Uncensored (Attitude Collection)
TLC Tables Ladders Chairs (Attitude Collection)
King Of The Ring 2000
Royal Rumble 2001
Survivor Series 2001

WWE
History Of Wrestlemania I-IX
Best Of Confidential Vol.1
Royal Rumble 2005

All original, in perfect conditions. No Tagged Classics in this list. If interested, send me a PM.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I never truly appreciate Henry until his 2011 run.


That's because there was nothing to appreciate.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Srdjan99 said:


> John Cena/HBK that high?


I'd have it at the same spot, with Flair/Savage being second instead of Hart/Michaels.



Salt Upon Wounds said:


> That's because there was nothing to appreciate.


LIES. There's plenty.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Trying to put together a list of all Punk title defenses for a set I'm making, anyone spot anything I've missed

Survivor Series 2011 vs ADR
Raw 11/28/11 vs ADR
TLC 2011 vs Miz vs ADR

Raw 1/2/12 vs Dolph Ziggler
Royal Rumble 2012 vs Dolph Ziggler
Elimination Chamber 2012 vs Chris Jericho vs Kofi Kingston vs Miz vs R-Truth vs Dolph Ziggler 
Wrestlemania XXVIII vs Chris Jericho
Raw 4/2/12 vs Mark Henry
Raw 4/9/12 vs Mark Henry
Raw 4/16/12 vs Mark Henry
Extreme Rules 2012 vs Chris Jericho
Over The Limit 2012 vs Daniel Bryan
Smackdown 5/29/12 vs Kane
No Way Out 2012 vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane
MITB 2012 vs Daniel Bryan
Raw 1000 7/23/12 vs John Cena
Summerslam 2012 vs John Cena vs Big Show
Night Of Champions 2012 vs John Cena
Hell In A Cell 2012 vs Ryback
Survivor Series 2012 vs Ryback vs John Cena

Raw 1/7/13 vs Ryback
Royal Rumble 2013 vs Rock


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> ANOTHER random topic since we're on the subject of Taker ; Five best opponents that AREN'T SHAWN MICHAELS ?
> 
> .... AAAANNNDDDD Go.
> 
> :jpl


1) Kurt Angle (far and away. He could even arguably be number 1.)
2) Batista (When these two mixed it up in 07, it was always gold, and even their worst match wasn't really a terrible match.)
3) Brock Lesnar (Hell in a Cell and Unforgiven are awesome matches, and the Biker Chain match is great as well. Not to mention that cage match I saw a couple of months ago, it was great too. These two haven't had anything resembling a bad match in the slightest)
4) Edge (Their classic Cell match, the amazing Wrestlemania main event, the excellent Backlash match and even a very good JD match are all evidence to show just how great Taker and Edge are together. Taker has given Edge some of his best singles matches ever, including his very best in the cell.)
5) John Cena (Now this one may sound crazy, and it probably is, but think about it... they have (arguably) three **** matches already, and that was when Cena was terrible in the ring and Taker hadn't hit his peak. Taker gave Cena the best matches of his career up until Cena finally got good in late 06-07. I don't think they've really had a bad match either. Even their Raw match in late 06, was short, but still a decent match. Almost wish they had wrestled at WM27 when both men were at their peaks and killing it at every PPV. Would've been a classic and I'm sure better than the Cena/HBK match and maybe even the Taker/Batista match. I hope they could still put some magic together at WM30).



> 1 - The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin WM17 - *****
> *2 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels WM12 - *****
> 3 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels WM23 - ****3/4
> 4 - The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin WM15 - ****1/2*
> ...


In bold are the matches I'd disagree with. Hart/HBK WM12 doesn't deserve anywhere near *****, and I'd put it more around ****. Same thing with Rock/Austin WM15, HBK/Austin WM14, and Cena/Michaels WM23. I'd also put Miz/Cena much lower, giving it a star at most.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> This match rules the world and everyone should definitely watch it.


Did you watch that Eddie/Jericho v Faces of Fear match from Nitro yet? You must've watched that, right?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Non HBK Undertaker Opponents:

MICK FOLEY - Foley was the guy (and the feud) that allowed Undertaker to evolve from Zombie Dead Man to "I'm fucking great and can do so much more" Dead Man. They had some great "normal" matches, the most impressive (visually) HIAC match of all time, and they made a match where you BURY YOUR OPPONENT ALIVE actually WORK. And it was great. They had amazing chemistry that carried into different match types (except Boiler Room Brawl. That blew chunks). Some of my favourite Undertaker matches are with Foley.

Kurt Angle - Without a doubt imo Angle's best opponent (Austin is a close second). They had some great TV matches together in 01/02, and underrated PPV match at Survivor Series 00, then that incredible SD match in 03, incredible PPV match at NWO in 06, and the awesome SD rematch in 06.

Batista - And without a doubt Batista's best opponent too. Nobody even comes remotely close for me. Their worst match together was that chairs match crap in 09, which was terrible for various reasons (Undertaker injured, terrible booking of the finish). Their 07 series is incredible. MOTY for WWE at WM, my personal favourite match between the two at CS, a tremendous LMS match at BL (MOTN for me too), a great cage match on SD, and a very underrated cage bout at SS too imo. Even their 2 TV matches in 08 were good. Plus you can include the awesome triple threat with Edge at Armageddon too since it was mostly Undertaker and Batista battling it out. They really seemed to have the whole "clash of the titans" style down to a tee.

Randy Orton - Another awesome series to take place over a year, this time back in 05. WM is a classic, SS imo is even better, their SD match is awesome, the handicap casket match is just amazing (fuck you. you know who you are. its fucking amazing. COWBOY BOB > you), and the HIAC is just immense and imo the MOTY ahead of even the great HHH/Batista HIAC and matches like HBK/Angle.

Triple H - You have WM 17, the awesome tag at BL, a few TV matches from 00/01, WM 27 and 28. And the last portion of... uhhh... one of the chamber matches. Ignore the 02 stuff (what 02 stuff? they never faced each other in 02. ever. stop saying they did) and that rather horrible 08 SD match and you can't go wrong with these two.

Honourable mentions:

Kane - Mainly for their actual feuds, which for the most part I always loved. They do have a great WM match in 98, and that awesome SD bout, and a fun brawl in 2010, and they did their best in the inferno matches, but they also have some really fucking "stink up the joint" matches too which brings their work together down.

JBL - Some really great bouts in 04, and some TV matches in 05 too. Really good, somewhat overlooked matches.

Big Show - They've been wrestling each other since 99. And had a TON of matches. However it wasn't really until 08 that they got their shit together and produced magic. Some 03 stuff was good too.

Brock Lesnar - UF 02, NM 02, some TV stuff in 03 and NM 03. All good matches at least, but not enough matches for me to list him in the top 5.

Edge - A great series in 08, but that god awful TLC match brings it down lol. WM is great, BL and JD are extremely overlooked and underrated. All 3 are a great series with a wonderful story told over all 3 of them, so its best to watch in order. TLC ruins the whole thing, then they bring it back with HIAC, which I find to be a tad overrated.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How is Foley not being put in people's lists for Undertaker's top 5 best opponents yet Edge has made it?

Edge series was quite good outside of one match, but really? Undertaker vs Mick Foley is the first thing I always jump to whenever I think of each.

And yeah, Guerrero & Jericho vs Faces of Fear from '97 is quite stellar.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> How is Foley not being put in people's lists for Undertaker's top 5 best opponents yet Edge has made it?
> 
> Edge series was quite good outside of one match, but really? Undertaker vs Mick Foley is the first thing I always jump to whenever I think of each.
> 
> And yeah, Guerrero & Jericho vs Faces of Fear from '97 is quite stellar.


Exactly what I was thinking. FOLEY was the #1 name I thought of too. Surprised to see no Orton too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Joining in on the Faces of Fear vs Eddie/Jericho love. Ridiculously fun tag with the FOF being super as the monsters decimating Eddie and Jericho who are great trying to find ways back into the match and using their speed and agility to counteract the power of the FOF. Think I'd have Powers of Pain vs The Rockers 1/15/90 ahead of it as far as monster heels vs plucky babyface tags go but both are excellent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Exactly what I was thinking. FOLEY was the #1 name I thought of too. Surprised to see no Orton too.


Even as a HOF'er he still gets no respect. </3

Orton is quality. Although he's in the same boat as Edge for me. b/c I HATE the handicap casket match in their series. Rest rock though.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Joining in on the Faces of Fear vs Eddie/Jericho love. Ridiculously fun tag with the FOF being super as the monsters decimating Eddie and Jericho who are great trying to find ways back into the match and using their speed and agility to counteract the power of the FOF. Think I'd have Powers of Pain vs The Rockers 1/15/90 ahead of it as far as monster heels vs plucky babyface tags go but both are excellent.


I need to see that. If not again and my memory has escaped me. Don't think I've gotten around to it though. I did have a hunch those two teams would work well vs each other. I do own an MSG show where the main event was a 6 man with Rockers & Duggan vs Powers of Pain & Fuji, but iirc, the match is kind of weak. Don't hold me to it. Only bringing it up b/c it shook my confidence on if my mindset was correct in Rockers vs PoP being good. 

What a long winded bit of tripe that response was. I need to see the match. I should have only said that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I need to see that. If not again and my memory has escaped me. Don't think I've gotten around to it though. I did have a hunch those two teams would work well vs each other. I do own an MSG show where the main event was a 6 man with Rockers & Duggan vs Powers of Pain & Fuji, but iirc, the match is kind of weak. Don't hold me to it. Only bringing it up b/c it shook my confidence on if my mindset was correct in Rockers vs PoP being good.
> 
> What a long winded bit of tripe that response was. I need to see the match. I should have only said that.


I appreciate your rambling tbhayley. *McQueen won't see it here*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8...-the-rockers_sport?search_algo=2#.URZhimdzH4w



> *Rockers vs Powers of Pain, MSG (1/15/90)*
> 
> Holy shit, this only goes 10 minutes but what we get is freaking incredible and should be mandatory viewing for anyone. Rockers run some really excellent cat and mouse spots in the beginning and use their quickness and athleticism to counter-act the power of their opponents and we get some really fun 'almost got 'em' sequences before Jannetty gets a little too cute and ends up being dropped with a big powerbomb.
> 
> Jannetty's FIP spell is truly superb. He takes about 5 or 6 lunatic bumps which look disgusting and the POP are really tremendous in brutalising him with power based offence whilst also distracting the ref long enough to illegally choke Jannetty as well as have Fuji assault him with the cane. Crowd are ridiculously loud for everything going on and the hot tag to Shawn is brilliantly timed and the finishing stretch is tons of fun with the Rockers again using their agility to evade and turn the tide on their bigger adversaries. Finish sees Fuji trip Michaels coming off of the ropes and has him eat a flash pin. Really excellent sub 10 minute match with tons of nutty bumps from Jannetty, a breathtaking pace, some really intricate and entertaining Cat and Mouse sequences with the Rockers toying with the POP and some great power offence from the POP.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I appreciate your rambling tbhayley. *McQueen won't see it here*
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8...-the-rockers_sport?search_algo=2#.URZhimdzH4w




I'm not tired anymore so I'll give it a whirl right now.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

That six-man is definitely not fucking with the regular Rockers/PoP tag. The regular tag is probably my favourite tag match ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think I'd probably have one of the Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express tags as my 'favourite' tag. Most likely Wrestlewar 1990. Just adore all the babyface shine sequences with the ME bumping wildly, trying to imitate Morton and Gibson and having it backfire everytime all whilst Cornette is slowly entering male pattern baldness every minute. 

POP vs Rockers is ridiculously fun and entertaining though. They get so much out of the 10 minutes they're afforded its crazy. Quite sad when you see matches like that and then see how condensed and rushed tag matches are in the 'E today. No thought or creativity seems to go into 99% of them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOD of CUNT said:


> That six-man is definitely not fucking with the regular Rockers/PoP tag. The regular tag is probably my favourite tag match ever.


Oh yeah. Doesn't even come close.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I think I'd probably have one of the Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express tags as my 'favourite' tag. Most likely Wrestlewar 1990. Just adore all the babyface shine sequences with the ME bumping wildly, trying to imitate Morton and Gibson and having it backfire everytime all whilst Cornette is slowly entering male pattern baldness every minute.
> 
> POP vs Rockers is ridiculously fun and entertaining though. They get so much out of the 10 minutes they're afforded its crazy. Quite sad when you see matches like that and then see how condensed and rushed tag matches are in the 'E today. No thought or creativity seems to go into 99% of them.


Superb match - Rockers vs PoP. I can't say anything that you haven't via your own write up, but what I will say is how wonderful the use of time is. I'll echo that in spades. It doesn't need to go above and beyond in that aspect and created a quality atmosphere in what, 9 minutes give or take? Jannetty's selling was priceless. I wanted to cringe with him after seeing the grimaces on his face once the FIP sequence began.

I literally was going to post how I adore the art of tag team wrestling. I get giddy while watching the ones that are special. Like really, that marking out vibe always comes over me. I feel the need to try and conjure up a list of my favorite tag team matches ever. Although I'm certain I still know what it is. Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90. If not focus on my love of tag team wrestling as a whole, I'll try and pin point the top tag team matches of 2013 as I plow through the year. WWE has already given me three tags I really enjoyed. Might have to give some due to another one from NXT and see if a rewatch will up it's worth. I know Cal liked it, so maybe there could be something to it.

In case anyone cared or I'll post it for the hell of it. The matches are:

Hell No vs Mysterio & Cara _(Smackdown 2/1)_
British Ambition vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger _(NXT 2/6)_
Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger vs Alex Riley & Derrick Bateman _(NXT 1/30)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MX/Southern Boys is :mark:. And speaking of tags... and MARK(ing):

Christian & Finlay Vs Jack Swagger & Mark Henry - ECW 17/02/2009

So I downloaded Christian's return ep in HD just to use a 1 second clip of it in my video last week lol, and fuck, decided to start getting all of 2009 in HD and eventually do a project. Think I'll start now, with a Christian in 2009 ECW project. He returned last week and faced Swagger, and I'll get to that later. Was just checking that this episode worked, and saw the main event announced and just HAD to fucking watch it. Its FINLAY. CHRISTIAN. 2009 SWAGGER. MARK HENRY. This could rule the world.

Henry and Christian to start. Henry powers Christian around, then Christian gets a slap in on Henry, and fuck, Henry just turns his head to look at Christian and you just KNOW he's gonna fuck shit up. But Christian has the quickness to escape and tag in Finlay, and eventually Swagger gets in too no doubt making Henry the big threat on the apron ready to come in and kill.

I like how Christian and Finlay tease a little dissension between them. They are babyfaces and nothing more; not friends, not an official tag team, and with Christian being the new #1 contender he's a threat to Finlay who also wants the ECW title. So these two have no reason to really get along beyond winning the match. Simple shit, but for some reason 99% of the time all babyfaces fucking love each other and it pisses me off, especially if one of them was a heel like a week before and tried to kill the babyface who is now hugging him or something. Nobody hugs me.

Finlay plays FIP which might seem odd as Christian is in the match, but Christian is the big returning babyface and will be facing Swagger for the title next week so it makes sense for Finlay to take the beating here to "protect" Christian. And hey, while Finlay is super awesome as a heel controlling a match, he's still a great FIP. Though you don't need to work hard when MONSTER HENRY is beating the shit out of you lol. Did we get a Finlay/Henry match on ECW in 09? That sounds boss on paper.

HENRY CAN SLAM NAILS INTO WOOD WITH HIS BARE HANDS.

HOT TAG. Some awesome Christian/Swagger stuff, and a couple of nice spots to keep Henry on the apron rather than coming in to help his partner against the fresh opponent. Then Finlay decks Henry with the sheleighly to get rid of him for good, and Christian can hit the Killswitch for the win.

Good tag match. I very much enjoyed it. Everyone looked good. Henry was a monster, Swagger came across as a young, powerful wrestler perhaps lacking in experience but made up for it in other ways, Finlay was a tough bastard and Christian was the returning babyface looking to get into the title picture. Some good action, some nice spots here and there and a cool finish building momentum for Christian going into the title match next week.

Rating - ***1/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Superb match - Rockers vs PoP. I can't say anything that you haven't via your own write up, but what I will say is how wonderful the use of time is. I'll echo that in spades. It doesn't need to go above and beyond in that aspect and created a quality atmosphere in what, 9 minutes give or take? Jannetty's selling was priceless. I wanted to cringe with him after seeing the grimaces on his face once the FIP sequence began.
> 
> I literally was going to post how I adore the art of tag team wrestling. I get giddy while watching the ones that are special. Like really, that marking out vibe always comes over me. I feel the need to try and conjure up a list of my favorite tag team matches ever. Although I'm certain I still know what it is. Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90. If not focus on my love of tag team wrestling as a whole, I'll try and pin point the top tag team matches of 2013 as I plow through the year. WWE has already given me three tags I really enjoyed. Might have to give some due to another one from NXT and see if a rewatch will up it's worth. I know Cal liked it, so maybe there could be something to it.


Tag team wrestling at its best is incredible. Alternates between fun, entertaining and then when you get some maestros at work it can become gripping, pulsating and beautiful. Midnight Express vs The Fantastics 4/26/88 is currently my #1 tag in US history and just has everything that makes a tag team match excellent. Great babyface vs heel dynamic, solid structure from babyface shine period to FIP segment to finish. Loved the 2nd FIP spell off of the lunatic suicide dive into the guardrail and the wonderful timing on the spot. Final few minutes are magnetic with the crowd baying for a title switch and numerous nearfalls which have the crowd getting louder on each one.

Southern Boys vs Midnight Express is exceptional in its own right though. 9th best match in WCW history imo with only RnR Express vs Midnight Express Wrestlewar and Steamboat/Rhodes vs Arn/Zybsko 11/19/91 ahead of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just looked over my WCW list and I actually put this before MX/SB:

11. Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992

Its the DX/Radicals Vs Cactus, Rock, Riksihi & 2 Cool match of 1992. Only a bazillion times better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good match indeed, Cal. I'm at *** with it. Not much difference between us there. It's a no on the Henry vs Finlay in 2009 btw. Only tags or two four way matches.

I _almost_ mentioned the Midnight Express vs Fantastics match you had me watch some months ago. Jesus christ at it. Almost no words can go into detail for me. I'll comment on the beauty of how sick the dive into the guardrail --> into another FIP sequence. That's about it b/c the rest of it usually leaves my jaw hanging. Too far to try and decipher any words to spout out monosyllabic or even in the form to type them to get the gist of how good that match is.

Midnight Express & Rockers matches. That's probably what a bulk of my list would be with the odd early 90's WCW tag mixed in too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That was in my 20-25 category I'm pretty sure.

Was a big fan of the Saturday Night 5/23/92 6 man Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton match myself, was my number 13.

Steamboat & Douglas vs Pillman & Austin, Starrcade 12/28/92 also deserves some praise.

edit: Glad you loved it Cody. Was pretty confident you'd be a big fan of it. Only Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernodle from Final Conflict '83 comes close imo.

Mantell/King Cobra vs Eaton/Sweet Brown Sugar from 7/19/82 Memphis is also probably a top 10 tag that a lot of people won't have heard of or watched.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> That was in my 20-25 category I'm pretty sure.
> 
> Was a big fan of the Saturday Night 5/23/92 6 man Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton match myself, was my number 13.
> 
> ...


Koko & Eaton? Radical.

The Final Conflict match. Ah. I'm almost certain something prevented me from finishing that match. (something I'll consider a sin on my own behalf) It's really one big blur to me either way.

Btw, it's Pillman and BARRY WINDHAM vs Steamboat & Douglas from Starrcade '92. It's one of my all time favorite tags. I know what's up with it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Henry/Finlay? I'm sad now 

*googles it*

Happened in 08 :mark:

The one year of ECW I can't find to download :lmao. Match is on PooTube at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, I would have mentioned it happened in '08 if you were curious to know if they worked vs each other at all. They had a feud in latter 2008. You didn't know this? I think like 2-3 singles matches on ECW, a tag with Hornswoggle & Atlas & the Belfast Brawl at Armageddon 2008.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Koko & Eaton? Radical.
> 
> The Final Conflict match. Ah. I'm almost certain something prevented me from finishing that match. (something I'll consider a sin on my own behalf) It's really one big blur to me either way.
> 
> Btw, it's Pillman and BARRY WINDHAM vs Steamboat & Douglas from Starrcade '92. It's one of my all time favorite tags. I know what's up with it.


Haha oh eck you're correct. Think I was mistaking for another Austin tag from the same year. Oops.

Aye Sweet Brown Sugar is the aforementioned Koko Ware. Match is built around Eaton being a chickenshit trying to avoid Mantell as well as Mantell and Cobra being past rivals and having teased moments of dissension. Koko bumps like a mad man throughout and the post match brawl with Mantell sensing blood is magical. Koko literally jumps over the ropes to the floor to escape his onslaught.

The Final Conflict Cage tag is a slow burner. Well worth the journey but something I can understand people being hesistant on watching in its entirety. Definitely a match you need to be in the right frame of mind to digest.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> No Henry/Finlay? I'm sad now
> 
> *googles it*
> 
> ...


They had a Street Fight at Armageddon 08, which was pretty good. I gave it ***1/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember much of 08 at all, certainly not TV. I started to really hate wrestling by the end of 08 as I've mentioned before, then the 09 RR came along and I was making out for like 3 months straight .


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Pillman takes one of the most ridiculous bumps from the apron to the guardrail I've ever seen in that Starrcade match. Throat first, no hands, totally unprotected. Looked like it broke his trachea. 

Koko/Eaton v Mantell/Kobra is fucking great and another one of my favourite tag matches ever. I pimped it here about 5 years ago now and the only person that wasn't a shithead and actually checked it out right away was Mystery. And no, he wasn't disappointed, because he wasn't/isn't a shithead.

EDIT: Koko/Eaton are the lost great tag team of forever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I don't remember much of 08 at all, certainly not TV. I started to really hate wrestling by the end of 08 as I've mentioned before, then the 09 RR came along and I was making out for like 3 months straight .


Did you watch Armageddon 08? That was actually better than RR 09 IMO 

What are your thoughts on the 09 PPV's, Cal?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Haha oh eck you're correct. Think I was mistaking for another Austin tag from the same year. Oops.
> 
> Aye Sweet Brown Sugar is the aforementioned Koko Ware. Match is built around Eaton being a chickenshit trying to avoid Mantell as well as Mantell and Cobra being past rivals and having teased moments of dissension. Koko bumps like a mad man throughout and the post match brawl with Mantell sensing blood is magical. Koko literally jumps over the ropes to the floor to escape his onslaught.
> 
> The Final Conflict Cage tag is a slow burner. Well worth the journey but something I can understand people being hesistant on watching in its entirety. Definitely a match you need to be in the right frame of mind to digest.


Hollywood Blonds mindset got you there, I'd imagine. btw, what's your thoughts on Blonds vs Arnderson & Roma from Beach Blast '93?

Sounds like some more Mid-South goodness. Koko seemed to pull no punches as a bumping heel. Think I made the facetious remark that Dolph Ziggler must have been a big fan of his during those days.

I think it was something wrong with the computer more than it was a lack of interest. Most of the time anything with Steamboat or Slaughter means it is something I'm down for. I'll get on it eventually of course. Especially if it's a classic match that must be seen by any and all wrestling fans. I'll pride myself on saying "I saw it" and whatnot.



Big Z said:


> I don't remember much of 08 at all, certainly not TV. I started to really hate wrestling by the end of 08 as I've mentioned before, then the 09 RR came along and I was making out for like 3 months straight .


Opposite of me. I was nearly done with mainstream wrestling in the early part of 2008. So bland, even with Undertaker as World Champ not being enough to save me. Then the summer hit, Punk was World Champ and things felt fun again. That's when ECW picked up and RAW was not quite as bad. Smackdown though. Oh, they were terrible still. Probably only had a handful of matches worth seeing that year. Undertaker vs Kane, Undertaker vs Big Show in the cage, umm, a fun Helms vs Shelton match that I'm not sure if it holds up, THE Brian Kendrick had a fun solid bouts, MVP might have had his two best bouts of his career vs Batista & Jeff Hardy.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOD of CUNT said:


> Pillman takes one of the most ridiculous bumps from the apron to the guardrail I've ever seen in that Starrcade match. Throat first, no hands, totally unprotected. Looked like it broke his trachea.
> 
> Koko/Eaton v Mantell/Kobra is fucking great and another one of my favourite tag matches ever. I pimped it here about 5 years ago now and the only person that wasn't a shithead and actually checked it out right away was Mystery. And no, he wasn't disappointed, because he wasn't/isn't a shithead.
> 
> EDIT: Koko/Eaton are the lost great tag team of forever.


That's as good an explanation for the raspy voice as I can muster :side: . Was a nutty bump off of memory and about as manic a bump as 1992 WCW could produce.

I have Moops1993 to thank for recommending Mantell/Cobra vs Eaton/Koko. He threatened to call me by an unflattering name if I didn't care for it. Luckily it came in the height of my Memphis obsession so there was no way I wasn't going to adore it. The sort of match Memphis never failed in executing to perfection.

Btw Andy I watched Dundee/Koko 2/3 falls Scaffold match a few weeks ago. Incredible match and definitely something I'd highlight to anyone wanting to see the fuss behind Dundee. Koko more than adds a lot of the match but Dundee's ability to work unseen spots to incorporate the Scaffold and his experience into the match was majestic.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Hollywood Blonds mindset got you there, I'd imagine. btw, what's your thoughts on Blonds vs Arnderson & Roma from Beach Blast '93?
> 
> Sounds like some more Mid-South goodness. Koko seemed to pull no punches as a bumping heel. Think I made the facetious remark that Dolph Ziggler must have been a big fan of his during those days.
> 
> I think it was something wrong with the computer more than it was a lack of interest. Most of the time anything with Steamboat or Slaughter means it is something I'm down for. I'll get on it eventually of course. Especially if it's a classic match that must be seen by any and all wrestling fans. I'll pride myself on saying "I saw it" and whatnot.


Memphis  .

Can't recall much about that match, Blondes vs Scorpio/Bagwell Worldwide 5/8/93 is outstanding though. Top 25 match in WCW history.

Yeah its well worth a watch especially if you watch the 'Road to Greensboro' videos that outline the feud and build to the Cage match. Excellent Cage match and the hype videos are exceptional in showing you how the match came about.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

That scaffold match is the best match of its kind by about six million miles. The Dundee/Mantell scaffold match is good as well, but Dundee/Koko is just awesome. And not awesome in the backhanded "awesome for a scaffold match" sort of way -- legitimately awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Memphis  .
> 
> Can't recall much about that match, Blondes vs Scorpio/Bagwell Worldwide 5/8/93 is outstanding though. Top 25 match in WCW history.
> 
> Yeah its well worth a watch especially if you watch the 'Road to Greensboro' videos that outline the feud and build to the Cage match. Excellent Cage match and the hype videos are exceptional in showing you how the match came about.


Fuck, Mid-South came out of my ass there and I don't know why. Only seems fitting for me to correct you, followed by you to do the same. !

Oh, it's pretty bad. I wasn't sure if I was the only guy who dislikes it, so I was gonna try and poll some comments. Roma's backslide in the match is the legit worst thing I've ever seen. To an extend. How do you botch a backslide? I'm more than certain the match you pimped annihilates the Beach Blast tag. Bringing up Bagwell reminds me of the amazing Stars N' Stripes vs Vader/Anderson tag from 4/15/95. That one has quickly rose up in my personal favorites list.

I'll be sure to do that. If not today sometime soon. Not like I had much planned for today later on except for bumming it with my bro watching wrestling. That match could be one of them. If he's interested that is. I might have got him too interested on Puro atm. Which is fine by me.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Where on earth do you find all of these old, great matches from territories like Memphis and Mid-South? Some are probably on Youtube but I doubt that ALL of them are.

I ask this because I'm tempted to do an old school project after my Smackdown 2006 project (I'm probably going to finish off February 2006, and that includes No Way Out, tonight). I need to broaden my horizons when it comes to older pro graps considering I haven't seen much wrestling that has taken place outside of the 21st century.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOD of CUNT said:


> That scaffold match is the best match of its kind by about six million miles. The Dundee/Mantell scaffold match is good as well, but Dundee/Koko is just awesome. And not awesome in the backhanded "awesome for a scaffold match" sort of way -- legitimately awesome.


Yeah I mentioned in my review that there's a line the match crosses between 'excellent for the stipulation' and then being a legit excellent match in its own right. Timing the nearfalls and teasing the big bumps at just the right time, the escalation from Koko looking petrified to trying to actively win the match when Dundee falls from the scaffold. The way they beat the crap out of each other on a rickety scaffold and some dangerous spots like Koko tripping Dundee all create this atmosphere that keeps you glued to the screen. The nearfall at the end with both tipping over and Dundee having to fly round the scaffold to hang on the sidebar was terrifying.



HayleySabin said:


> Fuck, Mid-South came out of my ass there and I don't know why. Only seems fitting for me to correct you, followed by you to do the same. !
> 
> Oh, it's pretty bad. I wasn't sure if I was the only guy who dislikes it, so I was gonna try and poll some comments. Roma's backslide in the match is the legit worst thing I've ever seen. To an extend. How do you botch a backslide? I'm more than certain the match you pimped annihilates the Beach Blast tag. Bringing up Bagwell reminds me of the amazing Stars N' Stripes vs Vader/Anderson tag from 4/15/95. That one has quickly rose up in my personal favorites list.
> 
> I'll be sure to do that. If not today sometime soon. Not like I had much planned for today later on except for bumming it with my bro watching wrestling. That match could be one of them. If he's interested that is. I might have got him too interested on Puro atm. Which is fine by me.




Yeah Roma being shitty doesn't surprise me. Leave it to him to screw up the basics. I adore that Stars N' Stripes match. MOTY for WCW in 1995 imo and just an excellent tag match with a great babyface and heel dynamic. Vader beating the shit out of people never gets old.



GOON The Legend said:


> Where on earth do you find all of these old, great matches from territories like Memphis and Mid-South? Some are probably on Youtube but I doubt that ALL of them are.
> 
> I ask this because I'm tempted to do an old school project after my Smackdown 2006 project (I'm probably going to finish off February 2006, and that includes No Way Out, tonight). I need to broaden my horizons when it comes to older pro graps considering I haven't seen much wrestling that has taken place outside of the 21st century.


A lot are on Youtube/Dailymotion, but Cal (Big Z) and Seabs on here both own DVDVR comps of the territories. They have Mid South, AWA, Memphis, Texas, WWF 80s as well as All Japan, New Japan and Other Japan from the 80s. They're around 9-14 discs depending on the territory and how much footage was available. Seabs and Cal both sell them far cheaper than the guy who originally created the sets and who also sells them. I'm ordering from both next week now that I've managed to sort what spare cash I have at my disposal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

VADER.

Paul Roma is utter nonsense. You hear his comments from the Four Horseman DVD? What a twat. Doesn't know anything about talent in this biz.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think I recall reading some nonsense from him. Wasn't there a guy on here at one point with a Paul Roma gimmick? Same with Ole Anderson basically thinking he was as good as Flair or some horseshit like that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh sheesh was there? I'd have to log in the history of my mind and pull out that gem if so.

Ole was a knucklehead himself. He thought he was better than Flair b/c I think it stemmed from when Flair left WCW to go to WWF. Then upon his return Ole was booking and thought he was above him in that position.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I'm sure some guy had a Roma username and would talk about himself in the third person. Might have made a thread about deserving to be in the HOF as well. Cal or Platt might recall him because I'm pretty sure he got banned in the end.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ole claimed that Flair was made NWA champion and sent around the territories because he couldn't draw :lmao. So Ole's argument was that Flair couldn't draw so he was made champion to get him out of Mid-Atlantic or wherever so he couldn't "not draw" there or some shit :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Rebellion 2002*:
Booker/Matt: ***
Cena & Dawn/Kidman & Torrie: **3/4
Crash/Funaki: ***
Noble/Rey/Tajiri: ***3/4
Devon & Simmons/Venis & Chuck: **
Rikishi/A-Train: **1/4
Benoangle/Los Guerreros: ****
Lesnar/Edge: ***1/2

DEM SMACKDOWN 2002 GEMS.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah, I might have to pick up some of those comps in the near future. I'm in America though and idk if Cal and/or Seabs ship overseas. If they do, I'll contact one of them eventually once I get enough cash on hand. Can anyone give me some info on the sets? Which set is the best in your opinion? I don't know much about territory wrestling obviously so help from those who do would be greatly appreciated. 

Anyway, here is some more SMACKDOWN 2006~!

*MNM vs. Brian Kendrick and Paul London - February 10th, 2006
*This match was all kinds of fun since you had Kendrick and London flying all over the place and Mercury and Nitro bumping for them. Kendrick and London gained the advantage early by using their high flying moves and speed (MNM is fast too so this says something about Londrick) to catch MNM off guard. MNM eventually got the momentum back and picked up the win after hitting Kendrick with the snapshot while Charles Robinson was distracted by Paul London, who was insisting that a tag was made even though the referee was distracted. I'd love to see these two teams get more than six minutes because this match was pretty good for the time it received.
*Rating **3/4
*

*The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry - February 10th, 2006
*Mark Henry has been great so far in 2006 and this match involves the Undertaker, who is always awesome, so I expected this match to be pretty good and it delivered. Undertaker beats the hell out of Henry for most of the match, which included Henry taking a pretty big bump back-first onto the steel steps. Henry gains the advantage when Undertaker went for a big splash in the corner but as Undertaker made contact, Henry caught him and put him in a bear hug. Henry would then do some good work on the lower back of the Undertaker. A head butt from Henry eventually wakes the Undertaker up, who FINALLY knocks Henry down with that VINTAGE flying clothesline of his. Taker would then deliver a massive chokeslam to Henry before MNM ran in for the disqualification finish. I highly enjoyed this in spite of the DQ finish.
*Rating: ****


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Can you post your Top 5 Sting WCW matches? I would really want to see some good matches of the Stinger from his WCW days. I know that he had some great matches with Flair at Starrcade


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> Yeah, I might have to pick up some of those comps in the near future. I'm in America though and idk if Cal and/or Seabs ship overseas. If they do, I'll contact one of them eventually once I get enough cash on hand. Can anyone give me some info on the sets? Which set is the best in your opinion? I don't know much about territory wrestling obviously so help from those who do would be greatly appreciated.


They both do ship overseas, though Cal will likely tell you he and the post office are having one of those on and off feuds over the years. I know Seabs said it would be £40 (overseas shipping included in price) for a 22 disc MOTY set in the Other Wrestling Section. Memphis and Mid South are 12 and 10 discs respectively iirc so no idea how the price would work out. Seabs I think does £1.50 a disc in most cases, not sure on Cal.

Erm. Memphis is generally regarded as one of if not the best set. Lawler, Dundee, Koko, Flair appearance, Mantell, Savage and his famous Lawler feud from '84-85. Austin Idol, Bigelow, Fabulous Ones, Moondogs etc. Its largely more of a brawling territory, so you're not gonna get Flair esque NWA defences in the comp minus the exceptional Koko ware title match in '85. The angles, segments and matches are generally exceptional.

Mid South is highly acclaimed as well. Duggan, Dibiase, Rock n Roll Express, Chavo Classic, Dick Murdoch, Buzz Sawyer, Flair, Midnight Express, Butch Reed are all heavily featured and there's some exceptional matches, angles and promos. The Duggan/Dibiase feud from '83-85 is amazing and has one of the best blowoff matches in history in the Tuxedo, Coal Miner's Glove on a Poll Steel Cage Match. All the stipulations make sense in the context of the feud and despite the bizarre name its a bloody, heated war. Basically imagine JBL/Eddie and you get that in Memphis and Mid South in the big feuds.

AWA I haven't seen much of but that is apparently getting a lot of praise. FWIW I'm getting Memphis, Mid South and AWA and then one individual wrestler comp.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

FoF vs Jericho & Guerrero 2/24/97 Nitro was awesome. ***1/4 easy. Spot of the match was Barbarian giving Jericho a belly to belly suplex off the top rope. Jericho literally went to the turnbuckle on the other side of the ring. 

DAT 18 x 18 WCW ring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Both me and Seabs sell overseas .

Best between Mid-South & Memphis? Fuck... uhhh... Memphis has LAWLER, so that's one massive positive. Bill Dundee too. Mid-South I think has more Flair as touring NWA champ, then guys like DiBiase, Roberts, Murdoch, Reed, Hacksaw etc so for overall talent I'd probably say Mid-South is the better set though Memphis has great stuff from Lawler, Dundee, then guys like Bigelow, Savage, Idol etc.

Texas is mainly FREEBIRDS AND VON ERICHS though that's great stuff, all depends on how you feel about those guys. Haven't seen any of the AWA set yet, but plenty of Bockwinkle for sure.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Memphis and Mid-South are two of the best sets of wrestling ever put together. Memphis is worth it for the Lawler/Kaufman extras alone "YOU'RE A FUCKIN' MOTHERFUCKER AND I HATE YOU. Sorry, I shouldn't curse, BUT YOU ARE A DIRTY MOTHERFUCKING AND I FUCKIN' HATE YOU."

Mid-South probably has the bigger number of good matches, but the high end stuff on Memphis is some of the best stuff in the history of wrestling (and the '85 Lawler/Dundee LLT is the best match in US history).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Can you post your Top 5 Sting WCW matches? I would really want to see some good matches of the Stinger from his WCW days. I know that he had some great matches with Flair at Starrcade


Not a top 5 because I haven't seen all his work, but here's some goodies:

vs. Ric Flair (GAB 1990 is *** 3/4 - ****) (COTC XXVII is *** 3/4ish, plus the first Clash match)
vs. Vader (literally any match they've had is pretty awesome from what I've seen)
vs. DDP (Nitro 4/26/1999 *** 3/4 - ****)
vs. Cactus Jack (Falls Count Anywhere from Beach Blast 1992)
vs. Steven Regal (nice little gem from GAB 1996)

All I can think of right now.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've been meaning to get in to some classic GRAPS for a while. I say classic, I mean anything pre 1996. I'll check out those tag matches were on about and I'll post my thoughts. After that, I'll probably move on to whatever Memphis/Mid South/AWA/Other I can find on the internet, so any essentials for any territories would be amazing, if any of you don't mind spending two minutes of your time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Sting (not just WCW, he hasn't exactly had anything worth mentioning from TNA lol):

1. Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994
2. Cactus Jack Vs Sting - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
3. Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994
4. Sting Vs Vader - Starrcade 28/12/1992
5. Cactus Jack Vs Sting – Power Hour 16/11/1991

Honourable mentions to:

Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999
Sting Vs Steven Regal – Great American Bash 16/06/1996


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Can you post your Top 5 Sting WCW matches? I would really want to see some good matches of the Stinger from his WCW days. I know that he had some great matches with Flair at Starrcade


Did a top 100 WCW poll and these were the Sting matches that made my list:

Ric Flair & Sting vs Great Muta/Dick Slater, Clash Of The Champions VIII 9/12/89
Sting vs Vader, Vacant International Heavyweight Title, Slamboree 5/22/94
Sting vs Vader, WCW Heavyweight Championship, Great American Bash 7/12/92
Ric Flair vs Sting, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Great American Bash 7/7/90
Sting vs Vader, King Of Cable Finals, Starrcade 12/28/92
Sting vs Cactus Jack, Falls Count Anywhere, Beach Blast 6/20/92
Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko vs Ricky Steamboat/Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes, 2/22/92
Flair/Windham/Sid Vicious/Zbyszko vs Sting/Pillman/The Steiners, WAR GAMES XVIII, Wrestlewar 2/24/91
Lord Steven Regal vs Sting, Great American Bash 6/16/96
Sting vs Vader, Leather Strap Match, Superbrawl III 2/12/93
Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko/Austin/Rude, WAR GAMES XXIII, Wrestlewar 5/17/92

Sting/Vader Superbrawl III, War Games 91 & 92, Sting/Regal GAB '96, the 2/22 8 man and Sting/Cactus Jack Beach Blast '92 are the peak of those imo.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

The lack of THE TOTAL PACKAGE is disturbing.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I've been meaning to get in to some classic GRAPS for a while. I say classic, I mean anything pre 1996. I'll check out those tag matches were on about and I'll post my thoughts. After that, I'll probably move on to whatever Memphis/Mid South/AWA/Other I can find on the internet, so any essentials for any territories would be amazing, if any of you don't mind spending two minutes of your time.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12823730-post14751.html

That covers a lot of the best of Memphis, not everything but more than enough for a taster.

Top 30 for Mid South:



Spoiler: Top 30



1. *Ted DiBiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Coal Miner's Glove,Tuxedo, Cage match) 3/22/85*
2. *Dick Murdoch vs. Barry Windham 7/11/87*
3. *Ted DiBiase vs. Ric Flair 11/6/85*
4. *Hacksaw Duggan vs. Buzz Sawyer 11/11/85*
5. *Mr. Olympia vs. Chavo Guerrero 6/24/83*
6. Butch Reed vs. Dick Murdoch 9/22/85
7. *Ted DiBiase vs. Jim Duggan (No DQ) 3/8/85*
8. Magnum T.A. vs. Ted DiBiase (No DQ, Tulsa) 5/27/84
9. Mr. Wrestling II & Magnum T.A. vs. Butch Reed & Jim Neidhart (Cage Match) 12/25/83
10. *Junkyard Dog & Mr. Olympia vs. Ted DiBiase & Matt Borne (Loser Leaves Town) 10/27/82*
11. Butch Reed vs. Dick Murdoch 10/14/85
12. Chris Adams vs. Terry Taylor 5/3/87
13. *Rock N Roll Express & Hacksaw Duggan vs. Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd 6/8/84*
14. *Jake Roberts vs. Ric Flair 11/24/85*
15. Ted DiBiase vs. Dick Murdoch (No DQ) 12/31/85
16. Terry Taylor vs. Ric Flair 6/1/85
17. Terry Gordy vs. Dr. Death 6/22/86
18. Magnum T.A. vs. Ted DiBiase 7/6/84
19. Ted DiBiase vs. Dick Murdoch 12/27/85
20. Ric Flair vs. Wahoo McDaniel 7/12/85
21. Dick Murdoch vs. Dr. Death 6/13/87
22. Ted DiBiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (Street Fight) 7/29/83
23. *Magnum T.A. vs. Ted DiBiase (No DQ, OKC) 5/27/84*
24. Ric Flair vs. Butch Reed 8/10/85
25. Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor 4/28/85
26. The Fabulous Ones vs. Chavo & Hector Guerrero (Mexican Death Match) 1/24/86
27. Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor 5/3/85
28. Dick Slater vs. Jake Roberts (No DQ, Dark Journey In A Cage) 2/28/86
29. The Fantastics vs. Chavo & Hector Guerrero 10/12/84
30. *Buzz Sawyer vs. Jim Duggan (Dog Collar Match) 12/27/85*



Bolded ones are ones I know for sure are on Youtube/Dailymotion. Might want to search for yourself on the ones in the middle of the list which aren't bolded since they escaped my memory and a couple might be on one of the stream sites.

Windham/Murdoch 7/11/87 is in Seabs' requests page he did the other week in the Media Requests section. Try the last two pages.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I've been meaning to get in to some classic GRAPS for a while. I say classic, I mean anything pre 1996. I'll check out those tag matches were on about and I'll post my thoughts. After that, I'll probably move on to whatever Memphis/Mid South/AWA/Other I can find on the internet, so any essentials for any territories would be amazing, if any of you don't mind spending two minutes of your time.


Not exactly well versed in those territories, dabbled here and there, but one of the best AWA matches I've ever seen was Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel for the World Title on 11/15/1986. **** 1/2 classic. For Memphis, Lawler vs. Savage in a Cage match springs to mind.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

The Sting/Vader strap match is like a top 5 match in WCW history. Cal is a dirty fucking limey and sucks donkey lung so naturally he doesn't like it. 

5. Sting v Vader (SuperBrawl, 2/21/93)
7. Arn Anderson, Rick Rude, Larry Zbyszko & Bobby Eaton v Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham (Saturday Night, 2/22/92)
10. Wargames (WrestleWar, 5/17/92)
22. Sting v Vader (Starrcade, 12/28/92)
23. Sting v Vader (Great American Bash, 7/12/92)
25. Ric Flair & Sting v Dick Slater & Great Muta (Clash of the Champions VIII, 9/12/89)
31. Diamond Dallas Page v Sting (Nitro, 4/26/99)
45. Vader v Sting (Slamboree, 5/22/94)
47. Sting v Cactus Jack (Beach Blast, 6/20/92)
54. Sting v Cactus Jack (Power Hour, 11/16/91)
90. Rick Rude, Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton v Sting & The Steiner Brothers (Worldwide, 10/3/92)

Everything involving Sting that made my WCW list.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sting/Flair from COTC is better than any Flair/Steamboat match, and I fucking LOVE those matches.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

I still liked that Flair/Sting match quite a bit when I last watched it, and I'm at a point right now where I'm so sick of the Flair/Steamboat matches that I have no interest in watching them wrestle each other, but even I wouldn't get behind that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 10 Owen Hart matches?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't go higher that ***1/4 for ANY Sting/Flair match. Thought some were pretty bad too. Most of them were the same sequence of moves repeated over and over and over to fill time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm with *CAL* on this one, not a huge fan of Flair-Sting in the slightest. Don't get me wrong, I'd have a few of them (by a few I mean like, one or two) at over *****, but definitely not better than the GOAT NWA/WCW series of matches (that and Flair/Windham) ever. It just doesn't compare in the slightest and to me it's like comparing Taker/HBK to Bret/Shawn, the name values are there and the matches are remembered fondly.... but Bret/Shawn just isn't good a ton of the time.

Ric Flair & Sting vs The Great Muta & Dick Slater ? THAT'S MORE MY SPEED BITCHES


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Screw it, throwing more CONTRAVERSY around with some more of WeAreProWrestling's lists:

- WM HBK matches:


> 1 - vs. The Undertaker WM25 - *****
> 2 - vs. Kurt Angle WM21 - *****
> 3 - vs. The Undertaker WM26 - *****
> 4 - vs. Razor Ramon WM10 - *****
> ...


- The Streak (WM Taker) matches:


> 1 - vs. Shawn Michaels WM25 - *****
> 2 - vs. Shawn Michaels WM26 - *****
> 3 - vs. Triple H WM28 - *****
> 4 - vs. Triple H WM27 - ****3/4
> ...


DAMN. Taker got as much DUD's as ***** matches, while HBK gets not more, not less than EIGHT ***** matches at WM alone. That is, in this guy's opinion. CONTROVARSY CREATES DEM CASH, they say.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I like Sting/Flair from COTC I. That was the night Sting was born, so to speak. Flair made him that night. ****1/4 - ****1/2. Wouldn't go the full 5 or anything like that.

The other Sting/Flair match I like besides COTC I is the 7/7/90 match. ***1/2 - ***3/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only DUD I have for Taker at WM is the Bossman HIAC. At least he manages to tell a good story in the Bundy/Gonzales matches. Gonna be watching every WM to do write ups like I did for the RR starting next week, so I'll have some STARS and shit... next month when I start posting them . Wanting to get as many done as possible before I have to actually post them so I'm not behind like I nearly got with the RR ones . Plus I need to get them done so I can work shit into a video script and get that done on time. Still working on my RR one. Nearly done now though .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow. That guy is a bigger fucking joke than I ever could have imagined. Is it possible for somebody to suck HBK's dick anymore than he is doing ? GOD DAMN. Some of his ratings such as the Flair match are just ghastly, and I know it's all personal preference but FFS have some criteria in which you rate your matches because if you have THAT MANY MATCHES @ 5 stars, something's wrong.

Gonna give this much away from my Wrestlemania project, I'm currently done I-XV , and I can tell you that there's only been one DUD from Taker so far and we all fucking know what piece of garbage that match is. It's all pretty fucking fresh in my mind and I can clearly tell you things from my point of view subjectively.

Kurt-HBK 5 Stars ? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Meh, I don't think HBK/Angle being ***** is that far-fetched, only just as much as the triple threat WM20 match and not anywhere near as much as HBK/Flair and HBK/Bret. Putting those latter two anywhere near 5 stars is blasphemous (in my opinion), though the former two I could understand.

The Taker list has some crazy stuff as well from my point of view, and I'm looking right at Taker/HHH WM27 being ****3/4. The WM28 match... well... feels like I tell my opinion on it every week, so take a guess at what I think.  Rest of the list I don't find too bad and don't differ too much from my own opinions.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, some of those ratings are crazy. I like HBK/Bret more than most, but it is certainly not 5 stars. I'm more in the **** range with that, same with HBK/Kurt **** - ****1/4 at the most. HBK probably has the most impressive WM resume of all time, but the ratings that guy gives for those two matches are over the top. Gotta be fair. Also, Taker from the early 90s through the Attitude Era has alot of junk on his WM resume. Not all of that is his fault, given how he was booked to be a monster who barely had to sell, and some of the trash he had to wrestle against. But it's still there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The way I figure it is if you're within 1/2* of my ratings, you're not terribly wrong.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm definitely going to get to HBK-Angle and love it like I did when I first saw it , I swear to god at one point in my life I thought the HBK-Angle series was the OMFG'Z MOSTEPICTHINGEVA and thinking it was the best match of 2005.... Well that's not true because I always adored Batista-Trips HIAC. Pretty sure the first few times I saw it I had it at ***** 3/4* and then it dropped to ***** 1/4* and eventually to ****** where it currently sits.

Don't get me wrong, I think the match is fucking great, but some of Kurt's nonsense in the match kind of drags it down for me a little bit. It's almost in the same boat as the HBK-Bret IRONMAN when I watched it the other day ; I was a fan (unlike a fucking ton of people, wouldn't make my top 100 or anything or even come close) but it wasn't OMFGEPICZ like some people like to describe it as.

I still have three matches left to watch from WM 14 which for some reason isn't in my Anthology set ; HHH-Owen , Taker-Kane, and HBK-Austin ...... The three matches from the event that I own on DVD, watched all the stuff I don't own online. REALLY loved those three matches on last watch so I can't wait to check this shit out now. If HHH-Mankind from Summerslam 1997 was Hunter's first great BIG match, than this is his first really great Mania match IMO.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> The way I figure it is if you're within 1/2* of my ratings, you're not terribly wrong.


I agree. That's always been my thought process, too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Wow. That guy is a bigger fucking joke than I ever could have imagined. Is it possible for somebody to suck HBK's dick anymore than he is doing ? GOD DAMN. Some of his ratings such as the Flair match are just ghastly, and I know it's all personal preference but FFS have some criteria in which you rate your matches because if you have THAT MANY MATCHES @ 5 stars, something's wrong.
> 
> Gonna give this much away from my Wrestlemania project, I'm currently done I-XV , and I can tell you that there's only been one DUD from Taker so far and we all fucking know what piece of garbage that match is. It's all pretty fucking fresh in my mind and I can clearly tell you things from my point of view subjectively.
> 
> Kurt-HBK 5 Stars ? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.


He says his criteria for a 5-star match is amazing wrestling, amazing storytelling, and historical significance. Which probably explains why matches like Angle/Taker NWO 06 aren't ***** in his mind - great wrestling but not too historically significant. The Flair/HBK match may have gotten that rating because of all the emotion surrounding it.

But if you think those are controversial, I suppose you have saw his entire ***** match list, which I posted a couple pages back. On the topic of the guy, here's his Top 15 Halloween Havoc list: 



> 1 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio '97
> 2 - Cactus Jack vs. Vader '93
> 3 - Barry Windham & Dusty Rhodes vs. Steve Williams & Stunning Steve Austin '92
> 4 - Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair '94
> ...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

OMG, I didn't even see that he gave HBK/Flair ***** stars. fpalm

I gave it like ***1/2. It was alright for what it was. Love Flair and he is undoubtedly the GOAT, but he could only do so much at that age.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I actually have HBK/Flair as WWE's MOTY for 2008. **** 1/2

Although, I wasn't really watching back in 2008 so I haven't seen everything. I'm not as big on the Jericho/HBK series as everyone else seems to be, but I'd understand why people prefer any of them matches of HBK/Flair. It's just personal preference.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I haven't watched HBK/Flair since it first aired and I don't think I want to ever give it a re-watch. I enjoyed it immensely and I know I will enjoy it much, much less the second time I watch it.

I'm just going to leave the memories alone and keep my **** rating for it standing forever.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got HBK/Flair at ***** still. I certainly did the night it happened. Rewatches I still get chills. Not HBK's best mania match though, imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DAT WAPW CONTROVERSY CONTINUES. His HIAC rankings:



> 1 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (*****)
> 2 - The Undertaker vs. Mankind (*****)
> 3 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H (*****)
> 4 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker (*****)
> ...


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Who/What is WAPW?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WeAreProWrestling, you can look him up on YouTube.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Also, the booking of Kurt Angle was mostly a fucking JOKE. I mean, you got an Olympic Gold Medalist in fucking WRESTLING, and he was playing the Olympic Gold Medalist WRESTLER character, and yet he barely outwrestled, outsmarted, outgrappled anyone in his career. It was always the _"we are equalz"_ schtick where Angle could display his skills, but hey, so could his opponent.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Once I didn't see Trips/Batista in the top 5 I decided not to look at the rest of the list.

Just finished Austin/HBK @ Mania XIV and GOOD GOD, under the circumstances that were provided has there ever been a better WWF/WWE performance by Shawn Michaels all things considered ? When I think about the matches he was involved in starting post Wrestlemania XIII when he FOUND HIS SMILE AGAIN and ending @ Mania XIV , that HAS to be the greatest single year by any performer in company history, right ? Some of his matches from that timeframe include ; 

- vs Austin @ KOTR 97
- W/Austin vs Bulldog/Owen on RAW
- vs Mankind on RAW (Mind Games LITE essentially)
- vs Bulldog @ ONO 97
- vs Undertaker @ GZ 97
- vs Undertaker @ BB 97 in the greatest match of all time
- vs Bret @ SS 97 in their greatest match together 
- vs a relatively new Ken Shamrock @ IYH DX
- vs Undertaker @ RR 98 (MOTY)
- vs Austin @ WM XIV in one of the ballsiest performances ever

Not to mention the plethora of COKE induced promos on Shawn's behalf during that era where he basically owned the fucking world. Probably the greatest prime of any performer in North American mainstream wrestling history outside of FLAIR IN 1989 in my honest opinion. What a fucking beast Shawn was, but then he had to find GOD, stop doing COKE, and come back as a pretty awesome but not EPIC SHAWN ON COKE like he was before. The moral of the story is simple ; MORE WRESTLERS SHOULD DO COCAINE. ORTON PROBABLY DID COCAINE IN HIS PRIME AND NOW LOOK AT HIM.

SHAWN MICHAELS ON COKE.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HBKOKE


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

ATF said:


> Top 10 Owen Hart matches?


Bret WM 10 - *****
Davey Raw 97 - **** 3/4
Bret SS 94 - **** 1/2
w/Davey vs. HBK & Austin Raw 97 - **** 1/2
10-Man Tag Canadian Stampede - **** 1/4
w/Bret vs. Steiners WrestleFest 94 - **** 1/4
Shawn IYH 96 - ****
Bret Raw 95 - ****
w/Bret vs. The Quebecers - Royal Rumble 94 - ****
[personal favorite] 123 Kid - King Of The Ring 94 - *** 1/2+

I'm probably leaving off something really good like that Action Zone match with Bret, Cornette's Camp Tag from IYH 96, another Michaels match, or something...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Clique said:


> Bret WM 10 - *****
> Davey Raw 97 - **** 3/4
> Bret SS 94 - **** 1/2
> w/Davey vs. HBK & Austin Raw 97 - **** 1/2
> ...


YES. YES. YES.

The Owen/Bret tag matches in 94 were just complete BEAST mode. Come to think of it, a ton of Owen's best matches have come from tag matches.... Is this a mere coincidence or is he just a superior tag worker than a singles worker ? 

Triple H mentions on his DVD before the Owen match that Owen never really scratched the surface of how great he was. Thoughts on this ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

More WeAreProWrestling CONTRAVERSY:

- Best Raw matches per year:


> 1993 - Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect Loser Leaves Town
> 1994 - Bret Hart vs. The 123 Kid WWF Title
> 1995 - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart No Holds Barred
> 1996 - Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart in August
> ...


- Top 15 Raw episodes:



> 15 - 1st episode
> 14 - 123 Kid and Marty Jannetty upset Razor and HBK respectively
> 13 - ECW invades in 1997
> 12 - Gold Rush Tournament
> ...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Edge - WM24

Excellent stuff here, only second time i think i have watched this match tbh, Edge was really good here, some nice reversals/counters. ****1/2

Pity we couldnt bottle the Taker between 05-09.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

ATF said:


> WeAreProWrestling, you can look him up on YouTube.


Oh, he's one of those guys on Youtube who sit in front of a camera and review shows? I'll pass then.

*Rey Mysterio vs Sylvan - February 17th, 2006 *
I was initially shocked when I found myself enjoying this match, but then I realized it involved Rey Mysterio so I wasn't too surprised. Sylvan cuts a pre-match promo where he calls Mysterio UGLY~! Those are fightin' words for sure. Mysterio starts off the match by taking out his aggression on Sylvan by attacking him before he could enter the ring. They brawl for about a minute on the outside of the ring before the entered the ring and the match officially began. Mysterio continues his assault for about another minute or so before Sylvan gains the advantage. During his control segment, he kills Mysterio with a hard clothesline which I felt at home. The match ends abruptly with Mysterio landing behind Sylvan after Sylvan was attempting what looked to be a body slam, dropkicking Sylvan in the back, and then hit the 619. This was such a fun little match here that only went about five and a half minutes. I <3 Rey Mysterio and Smackdown~!
*Rating: **1/4*

*JBL and Finlay vs. Chris Benoit and Lashley - February 17th, 2006
*Booker T was on commentary during this match and because of this, it was hard to concentrate on the match due to how obnoxious he is on commentary. With that said, this match was pretty good. Finlay and JBL basically try to break Benoit's hand early on in the match, which included JBL stomping on Benoit's hand on the steel steps about seven times while the referee's back was turned. Benoit would tag in Lashley, who would come in and get some shots in on both JBL and Finlay but he too would have his turn playing the face in peril. One hilarious moment took place during Lashley's FIP stint, as JBL kept trying to tag in Finlay but the referee wouldn't acknowledge the tag even though it was right in front of him for some reason which prompted Finlay to yell "What in the hell is the matter with you?" Lashley soon afterwards would make the tag to Benoit, who would come in and get his shots in and even had the match won before Booker T interfered, hit Benoit with a chair, and Benoit would then walk right into JBL's clothesline from hell to give the victory to JBL and Finlay. JBL and Finlay make an awesome team, by the way. Two stiff workers who love to just beat the shit out of their opponents.
*Rating: **** 

*The Undertaker and Kurt Angle vs. MNM and Mark Henry - February 17th, 2006
*The story of this match was both Angle and Undertaker wanting to show off heading into their match at the No Way Out Pay Per View. The early portion of the match shows just that, as both Angle and Undertaker take turns trying to one-up each other before Mark Henry clothesline both of them out of the ring, which leads us to a commercial break. When we returned, Angle was playing the FIP and this turned into your standard handi-cap match. The finish came when Undertaker was about to chokeslam Mark Henry, but Angle tagged himself in on Taker's extended hand. He would then come in and quickly make Johnny Nitro tap out to the ankle lock. There was nothing extraordinarily good in this match but nothing bad either. It was just your basic TV main event.
*Rating: ***

I have No Way Out 2006 on tap next, which I'm going to start watching in a couple of minutes. I might just watch the Cruserweight match, JBL/Lashley, Orton/Mysterio, and Angle/Taker. I've heard below average things about Booker/Benoit on this show and the Hardy and Tatanka/MNM match doesn't sound too appealing.

EDIT- Most of those episodes were actually awful/below average outside of those few moments he mentioned. The YWC is just awful.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm late b/c I miss everything I want to catch b/c of time differences but w/e.



GOD of CUNT said:


> Did you watch that Eddie/Jericho v Faces of Fear match from Nitro yet? You must've watched that, right?


Of course. I think I called it my #101 for WCW.



Big Z said:


> Did we get a Finlay/Henry match on ECW in 09? That sounds boss on paper.





Big Z said:


> I don't remember much of 08 at all, certainly not TV. I started to really hate wrestling by the end of 08 as I've mentioned before, then the 09 RR came along and I was making out for like 3 months straight .



Yeah they have a running feud in 2008 including a Belfast brawl at Armageddon. From what I gather their match on an August ep of ECW is the best one, but I don't remember it. Or haven't even seen it.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I have Moops1993 to thank for recommending Mantell/Cobra vs Eaton/Koko. He threatened to call me by an unflattering name if I didn't care for it.


'Steffani'? 



Anyone looking for Owen hart matches should watch the Owen/Neidhart v Bret/Davey Boy (is that it?) tag from October 94. Smokes the Steiners tag tbh. So does Owen/Yokozuna v Luger/Davey Boy from one of the In Your Houses in 95. Also watch the Vader match from One Night Only, the Shamrock Lion's Den from SummerSlam 98 and the Scorpio match from Raw that gets good time.



KingOfKings said:


> Triple H mentions on his DVD before the Owen match that Owen never really scratched the surface of how great he was. Thoughts on this ?


I think the fact Owen was so good actually kind of hurt him. IDK if that makes sense, but watching a crap-ton of Owen Hart....a lot of time it looked like was barely trying, yet was still having pretty awesome matches on cruise control. He definitely wasn't a lazy guy, but he was so naturally good that he could almost afford to be lazy if he wanted to. He wanted to leave wrestling in 93 to become a firemen or something before they turned him heel and feuded with Bret; he definitely didn't have that same kind of "passion", I guess, that a lot of others had. He really wasn't the most motivated through the later parts of his career, but he didn;t need to be to create something good. I feel bad saying a lot of this because it seems like I'm talking him down (which I wouldn't do), so with everything said I can't remember a bad Owen match. And shit, at his best he was pretty much as good as anyone.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

GOON The Legend said:


> Oh, he's one of those guys on Youtube who sit in front of a camera and review shows? I'll pass then.


Actually no, his videos are kinda like this:






That's one of his vids BTW.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Batista/HHH was better than Edge/Jericho and Booker/HHH? What a nerd.

Is Benoit/Booker any good from No Way Out 2006?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow, watching that made me realise there really haven't been too many good WHC matches at WrestleMania. Honestly my #1'd probably be Taker/Batista, and I don't even LOVE that. I guess I'd have to watch it again.


Fuck, I don't start uni until July (I was supposed to start something else next week but you don't give a SHEEIT). I should actually do what I've never done before and watch every WrestleMania in full, to lead up to Mania 29. If I get it done too early I should watch the Starrcades.


EDIT - I was pretty bored by Benoit/Booker tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

This guy also did reviews of a lot of shows, which are currently uploaded: all WrestleMania's, all SummerSlam's, No Mercy and Survivor Series 02, Badd Blood and Survivor Series 97, most of WWE/TNA PPV's from 2012, Genesis and RR 2013, Bound For Glory 06, some of the ROH Summer of Punk PPV's, ECW Barely Legal and One Night Stand 05, When Worlds Collide, and Heroes Of Wrestling.

Some of his "controversially" acclaimed videos: 





And for those who didn't read the list I posted on the subject yet:





Oh and Booker/Benoit NWO 06, that was pretty good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The video I clicked on had Linda McMahon's theme playing. I marked.

GOON, I'd watch Hardy/Tatanka vs MNM, it really isn't that bad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FORTY TWO FIVE STAR WWE MATCHES.

WOW.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not as much WOW worthy as Bret/Backlund (though it did have GOAT storytelling), Bret/HBK, Savage/Steamboat, SS 02 Triple Threat Tag and Rock/HHH all being *****.

EDIT~:




:mark:

ANOTHER EDIT~: Forget the excitement, the match is recapped into 2 minutes. However, it kinda serves as an appetizer for what a Taker/Umaga match could've and should've been...


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Taker/Umaga would have been sweet. 

I actually find myself agreeing with the World Title at Wrestlemania countdown, not too big on HHH/Booker, can't get past the ending. 


Watched the first 2 chambers today as part of my "project", throw some stars up there I suppose. 
Survivor Series 2002 - ****1/2
Summerslam 2003 - ****


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Star ratings for Taker on PPV in 1997?

vs. Vader (Royal Rumble) ***1/4
vs. Hart/Vader/Austin (Final Four) ****1/2
vs. Sid (WM13) ***1/3
vs. Mankind (Revenge Of The Taker) ****1/2
vs. Austin (Cold Day In Hell) ****1/4
vs. Faarooq (King Of The Ring) ***
vs. Vader (Canadian Stampede)***3/4
vs. Hart (Summerslam) ****1/2
vs. HBK (Ground Zero) ***1/4
vs. Hart (One Night Only) ****3/4
vs. HBK (Badd Blood) *****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> Is Benoit/Booker any good from No Way Out 2006?


IMO yes.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

AHH FUCK IT

Survivor Series 02: ****1/2
Summerslam 03: ***
NYR 05: ****1/2
NYR 06: **1/2
D2D 06: *3/4
Raw NWO 08: ****
SD NWO 08: ***1/2
SD NWO 09: ***3/4
Raw NWO 09: ***1/4
Raw EC 10: ***
SD EC 10: ***1/2
SD EC 11: ****1/2
Raw EC 11: ***1/4
Raw EC 12: **1/2
SD EC 12: **

Hoping for a good SD chamber this year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Star ratings for Taker on PPV in 1997?
> 
> vs. Vader (Royal Rumble) ***1/4
> vs. Hart/Vader/Austin (Final Four) ****1/2
> ...


Pretty close to my ratings. Except I have the Sid match at ** and the Bret ONO match at ****1/2 match. Still their best match together. Evertything else, same as you.

More than agree on your thoughts on the possibilities of a Taker/Umaga. More than that actually. 2 minute appetizers are terrible: they're great matches but they're only 2 minutes :cussin:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HOLY FUCK, I wanted Taker/Umaga so goddamn bad. Literally could've been a MOTYC in '07 or '08.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Smackdown 05/06/2011 - World Heavyweight Championship Match: Christian vs. Randy Orton*

Such a great TV match. That had a huge pop for the win, but both guys had the crowd in the palm of their hands the entire time. The match was very well executed and structured to provide some great drama and nearfalls at the end. Very exciting, it was shocking to see this at the time. My only regret was reading the spoilers before watching the match. Oh and the camera work as well to capture a nice range of emotions through each man's facial expressions. ***1/2

*WWE Over The Limit 2011 - World Heavyweight Championship Match: Christian vs. Randy Orton*

16 minutes of beautiful Back and forth counters and reversals which made for a phenomenal story with each man becoming more and more desperate to just hit something BIG, and Christian’s desperation selling was amazing. Some great nearfalls too especially after the spear that was a counter to Orton's punt kick. This blew their Smackdown match out of the water (and that match was great in it's own right). These guys have uncanny chemistry together and this was downright incredible with each man countering each other's signature spots in ways never seen before while the crowd went crazy for everything they did. ****1/2

*WWE Capitol Punishment 2011 - World Heavyweight Championship Match: Christian vs. Randy Orton*

Yet another really good match from these two, buy not as good as the previous month but still a great match to watch. Plenty of counters again but also the added dynamic of the Orton concussion coming into play, which Orton sells very well. and the screwy finish with Christian's foot under the ropes does bring it brings it down a little, but it was still a good way of adding a new element to the feud. ***3/4

*WWE Money In The Bank 2011 - World Heavyweight Championship Can Change Hands Via DQ: Randy Orton vs. Christian*

This was their usual excellent little match with all kinds of great counter sequences, but the icing on the cake was the well-booked finish which made Christian come off looking like a CLB BASTARD!, cowardly heel and puts Orton over even more as a badass. The post match beat down is good and the crowd loves it. And for some reason announce tables never seem to break for RKOs. It was probably the weakest of their series, but even so it was still very good. ***1/2

*WWE SummerSlam 2011 - No Holds Barred Match for the World Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton vs. Christian*

So the Orton/Christian feud has come to its finale well is PPV matches. It’s Before the match, Christian brings out Edge. While you would think Edge would give him his total support, Edge tells Christian that he thinks he has become a whiny, CRYING LITTLE BITCH. And then Edge just walks out. :lmao Okay now for the match. These guys have had what, half a dozen matches against each other? While this one might not be the technical masterpiece that their Over the Limit encounter was, it's just a complete 180 with the hardcore spots and was just a total brawl. First it Started off with the usual counter wrestling that we've gotten use to then they turned it into a brawl with some brutal spots. One thing i noticed and thought was smart was that Christian loses the title with the same move that he first lost the title to but this time it was onto the steel steps. There were all kinds of psychology thrown in too to show us how well each man knows the other after so many matches together, and some of the spots were pretty brutal as well. Great match here, and that would appear to blow the feud off for good as Christian goes down clean and decisively. The whole series has been great, and it’s definitely time to move on, but this was a tremendous way to end it. ****1/4

*WWE Smackdown 08/30/2011 - Steel Cage Match for the World Heavyweight Championship: Christian vs. Randy Orton*

I've said it time and time again that Christian and Randy Orton have phenomenal chemistry with each other, and that was once again on display in this match. Christian and Orton found a way to make each match exciting and distinct. This match seemed poised to be the blow-off match for their feud and it was cause post match Henry destroyed Orton in the cage and raised the World Title :mark: HALL OF PAIN! but before that I must speak more on the match. The final few minutes were exciting to watch with the counters and fake-outs and previous spots from matches. The finish with Christian attempting the Killswitch from the top rope only to get RKO from the top rope instead was great. A fantastic end to a feud that always delivered in the ring. ****

Post Match: Mark Henry’s music hits and he quickly makes his way to the ring. Henry enters the cage and Orton quickly cuts him off with punches. Henry head-butts him down and stomps Orton. Henry picks Orton up and drives him headfirst into the cage. Henry picks him up and goes for it again, but Orton slides off. Orton punches, but Henry quickly clotheslines him down. Henry picks him up and head-butts him right back down. Henry hits a big splash and yells at Orton to get up. Henry picks him up and launches him into the cage. The crowd boos loudly for Henry. Henry drags him into the ring and picks up his limp body to finish him off with the World’s Strongest Slam! Henry stands over him and screams at him! Henry holds up the World Heavyweight Championship as Smackdown ends!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pft, stop promotion that guy's videos with his terrible opinions and billion 5 star matches. Just watch mine instead .

Taker 97:

vs. Vader (Royal Rumble) ***
vs. Hart/Vader/Austin (Final Four) ****3/4
vs. Sid (WM13) **3/4
vs. Mankind (Revenge Of The Taker) ****1/4
vs. Austin (Cold Day In Hell) ***1/4
vs. Faarooq (King Of The Ring) Don't remember this at all
vs. Vader (Canadian Stampede)***1/2
vs. Hart (Summerslam) ****1/2
vs. HBK (Ground Zero) ****1/4
vs. Hart (One Night Only) ****1/2
vs. HBK (Badd Blood) *****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Pft, stop promotion that guy's videos with his terrible opinions and billion 5 star matches. Just watch mine instead .
> 
> Taker 97:
> 
> ...



That's because it's BAD and you block BAD Undertaker matches from your brain. Now, if we're talking about THE GAME here, then I don't remember much about his 02-03 run.

:jpl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wasn't he supposed to face Ahmed Johnson at the time instead or something? But Ahmed got injured?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes. So we got a match with FAAROOQ instead, which actually MAIN EVENTED A PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well could have been worse. Ahmed could have still wrestled.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH CAL. STARZ 4 WRASSLE-MANIA 2000 (which I just popped into my Laptop) ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been a while since I saw it:

Bossman & Buchanan Vs Godfather & D-Lo - *
Hardcore Time Limit Title Match - ** (FUN)
T&A Vs Head Cheese - **1/2 (good stuff given the time and lack of build)
Triangle Ladder Match - ****1/4
Terri Vs Cat - DUD
2 Cool & Chyna Vs Radicals - **
Benoit Vs Jericho Vs Angle - ***
Rikishi & Kane Vs X-Pac & Road Dogg - *1/2
HHH Vs Show Vs Foley Vs Rock - ****


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

KingOfKings said:


> Yes. So we got a match with FAAROOQ instead, which actually MAIN EVENTED A PPV.


Still not even the worst KOTR main event, shockingly.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

So strange that WM 2000 only had one singles match which really wasn't even a match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So many tag team matches, so little time.

Seriously though, Angle vs Benoit vs Jericho in the year 2000 sounds so fucking good on paper, what the fuck happened and why wasn't it atleast three and a half ? Is it a case of Austin-Benoit-Jericho where everything feels kind of over-saturated ?

Actually KOTR 97 had an AWESOMELY underrated Helmsley-Mankind match in the KOTR finals, and a CLASSIC Austin-HBK match which is the best singles match they ever had, it's just the fact that such an inferior match main evented that blows my mind.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lmao @ Kane and all this "May 19" stuff. On the road to Backlash and they have turned him into this crazy demented monster again after being normal for a while. How many times has he gone from normal to monster? LOL.

And Vince McMahon is still the most boring son of a bitch breathing on this planet in the year 2006.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> lmao @ Kane and all this "May 19" stuff. On the road to Backlash and they have turned him into this crazy demented monster again after being normal for a while. How many times has he gone from normal to monster? LOL.
> 
> And Vince McMahon is still the most boring son of a bitch breathing on this planet in the year 2006.


Isn't 2006 the year Vince went to a church and called out God? Yeah, that was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle wasn't exactly good yet and Jericho was still struggling to adapt to the WWF style, so really in March/April *2000* it wasn't good on paper .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed about Jericho, WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO HIM ? How he performed in 2000 pre FULLY LOADED W/Hunter kind of reminds me of Del Rio now in the sense of what he did wasn't really bad but nothing really stood out about his style. I don't understand how you can go from not getting the in-ring style to being in one of the greatest North American matches of all time in Hunter-Jericho in just mere months.

Benoit was always awesome though


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Isn't 2006 the year Vince went to a church and called out God? Yeah, that was awesome.


The height of Vince insanity yet amazing at the same time. Seems WWE took down the video on youtube though, actually come to think of it they've been removing tons over the past month and a bit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Isn't 2006 the year Vince went to a church and called out God? Yeah, that was awesome.


That was the week before (and it was boring), now it's 17/4 and he's rambling about "God of McMahonism" for like 10 minutes. Even crowd started chanting "Boring". My sense of humor is very diverse, but I see no appeal in this shit.

The insane motherfucker keeps killing my interest in watching Raw with his terrible segments every week, all of which are at least 10 minutes. Not that the rest of the show is all that good. All I'm really interested in is Smackdown and even that wont be as good soon with Orton, Benoit, Angle, Taker and so on going away.

And big lol @ Chavo "quitting". It's supposed to be emotional yet I'm here laughing at this shit. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm a somewhat religious person but that McMahon stuff had me in stitches, especially the church segment. The holy water Triple H spit. :lmao:argh:


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Top 15 wwe matches of all time in my opinion, let me know what you guys think of the list!

1) HBK vs. The Undertaker - Bad Blood 1997 HIAC
2) Stone cold vs. Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13 submission match
3) HHH vs. HBK vs. Chris Benoit - Wrestlemania 20
4) HBK vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25
5) HHH vs. Cactus Jack - Royal rumble 2000 Street fight
6) Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart - wrestlemania 10
7) Benoit and angle vs. Mysterio and Edge - No mercy 2002 SD tag titles
8) Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania 3
9) HBK vs. Mankind - Mindgames 1996
10) Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho - Royal Rumble 2001 Ladder Match
11) HBK vs. Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 21
12) The Rock vs. Stone Cold - Wrestlemania 17
13) Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero - No way out 2006
14) Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - Royal rumble 2003
15) Brock Lesnar vs. John cena - Extreme rules 2012


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HWRP said:


> Top 15 wwe matches of all time in my opinion, let me know what you guys think of the list!
> 
> 1) HBK vs. The Undertaker - Bad Blood 1997 HIAC
> 2) Stone cold vs. Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13 submission match
> ...


Cool list, nothing I'd majorly disagree with. Haven't seen HBK/Mankind. The rest are all in my top 100. Nice to see some love for Benoit/Jericho RR. Mine's different, but as I said, don't really have any complaints with that list. Oh, and Lesnar/Eddie was from 2004.

My top 15:

(*****)
1) Benoit vs. Angle RR 2003
2) Austin vs. Bret WM13
3) Undertaker vs. HBK BB1997
4) Undertaker vs. HBK WM25
5) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle NWO 2006
6) Austin vs. Bret SVS 1996
7) Foley vs. HHH RR 2000
8) Bret vs. Owen WM10
9) Punk vs. Bryan OTL 2012
10) Austin vs. Rock WM17
(****3/4)
11) Undertaker vs. Lesnar NM 2002
12) Austin vs. Angle SS 2001
13) Undertaker vs. HBK WM26
14) Lesnar vs. Angle SD 2003 Ironman
15) Undertaker vs. Angle SD2003


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just noticed that you REALLY love Kurt Angle *Obis* , is it him or just some of the matches he's been involved in over the years ?

..... Better be the latter :kurt


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Just noticed that you REALLY love Kurt Angle *Obis* , is it him or just some of the matches he's been involved in over the years ?
> 
> ..... Better be the latter :kurt


He's got a lot of goodies from over the years, and his matches are always fun for me to watch.

Angle himself I was a fan of in 2000-2003, especially in 2000 as the ultimate comedic mid-card heel transitioning to main event. He was gold back then. Once he started getting to be the "SERIOUSRASSLIN'MACHINE" I lost interest. 

In fact, might be the case for matches as well because the far majority of his matches I have on my top 200 are from pre-2004. So who knows.

What's interesting as it relates to Angle is while Angle/Benoit RR 03 is my top match of all time, none of the other Angle/Benoit matches are in that top 200. Maybe they'll pop in before 300 somewhere.

Edit: Oh, and I was Obis two usernames ago. Get with the times! <_<

(I have changed my username quite a bit. My next username will probably be my permanent one).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My top 15

HBK/Taker - Bad Blood '97
HBK/Taker - WM 26
Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM 20
Punk/Cena - MITB '11
Austin/Bret - WM 13
Umaga/Cena - RR '07
Lesnar/Taker - NM '02
Lesnar/Eddie - NWO '04
Austin/Angle - SS '01
Steamboat/Savage - WM 3
Batista/Taker - CS '07
Taker/Angle - NWO '06
Triple H/Jeff Hardy - NM '08
Orton/Foley - Backlash '04
Benjamin/HBK - Raw '05

Honorable mentions to: Raw '05 Chamber, MITB I and MITB IV but I left them off to just focus on singles and that one triple threat.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> lmao @ Kane and all this "May 19" stuff. On the road to Backlash and they have turned him into this crazy demented monster again after being normal for a while. How many times has he gone from normal to monster? LOL.


Wait until the SmackDown before Judgment Day where Kane comes in and ends the show by making the challenger and champion look like total chumps before they're about to main event a PPV.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - Hell In A Cell - Bad Blood 1997
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 20
Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart - I Quit - Wrestlemania 13
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Street Fight - Royal Rumble 2000
Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
Stone Cold vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2001
Chris Benoit vs. Stone Cold - Edmonton, Smackdown 2001
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown June 2005
Chris Jericho vs. Triple H - Last Man Standing - Fully Loaded 2000
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit 2012


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll give this a try too even though I have no established list.

Benoit vs Angle (RR03)
Benoit vs HHH vs HBK (WM20)
Austin vs Rock (WM17)
Austin vs Bret (WM13)
HBK vs Undertaker (WM25)
Angle vs Undertaker (NWO06)
Austin vs Benoit (SD01)
Rock vs Benoit (FL00)
HBK vs Undertaker (BB97)
Austin vs Angle (SS01)
Orton vs Foley (BL04)
HHH vs Batista (VEN05)
Rock vs Undertaker vs Angle (VEN02)
Lesnar vs Eddie (NWO04)
Benoit/Jericho vs TMPT (Raw01)

@*Yeah1993*: Ha, I heard about that some pages ago regarding JBL bringing monsters to beat on Rey Mysterio for JD.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Alright, I've been compiling my top list of matches... which I will eventually post... trying to get to 1,000 (might settle at 500 if 1,000 isn't possible as I'm not even sure if I've seen 1,000 matches). I just need to get some ideas of matches I may have missed and should add, or matches I need to watch, and as such, I'd like the top 10-20 (or however many you'd like to put) from each of these guys (preferably WWE only, but if something is REALLY good and not too long, I'll consider venturing out into unknown waters):

CM Punk
Daniel Bryan
Kane
Sheamus
Mark Henry
Big Show
Edge
Ric Flair (I have the Steamboat matches on my "list of matches to watch")
Bret Hart
The Rock
Austin
HHH
HBK
Angle
Benoit
Lesnar

The first 6 are the ones I'm really interested in seeing, mainly because you don't see their top lists as much as others (well, I don't anyway), but go for any and all of them if you wish.

Oh, and add in your best divas matches if you want.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Rawk said:


> Alright, I've been compiling my top list of matches... which I will eventually post... trying to get to 1,000 (might settle at 500 if 1,000 isn't possible as I'm not even sure if I've seen 1,000 matches). I just need to get some ideas of matches I may have missed and should add, or matches I need to watch, and as such, I'd like the top 10-20 (or however many you'd like to put) from each of these guys (preferably WWE only, but if something is REALLY good and not too long, I'll consider venturing out into unknown waters):
> 
> CM Punk
> Daniel Bryan
> ...


Punk
vs Cena - MITB '11
vs Bryan - OTL '12
vs Jericho - WM 28
vs Hardy - SS '09
vs Hardy - SD '09 (cage)
vs Cena - SS '11
vs Henry - Raw 4/2/12
vs Mysterio - OTL '10
vs Taker - SD Sept '10
vs Cena - NOC '12
vs Bryan - Raw March '12
vs Jericho - ER '12
vs Henry - Raw 4/16/12
vs Bryan - MITB '12
vs Ziggler - Raw 11/17/11
vs Trips - NOC '11
vs Morrison - ECW 9/4/07
vs Morrison - SD July '09
vs Hardy - NOC '09
vs Del Rio - SS '11
vs Mysterio - ER '10
vs Mysterio - CP '11
vs Mysterio - SD Feb '10

Off the top of my head.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Was that March 2012 Bryan match the one with each guy pinning the other and having the match restarted by the GM's?

Also didn't Punk and Mysterio have a match in 08 or 09 on PPV?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rough guess at a top 15 without much in depth thought (not in order):

Backlund vs Valentine 2/19/79
Slaughter vs Sheik Boot Camp Match 6/16/84
Rockers vs Brainbusters Boston 3/18/89
Rockers vs Orient Express Royal Rumble 1991
Austin vs Hart Wrestlemania 13
HBK vs Taker HIAC Bad Blood '97
HHH vs Jericho Last Man Standing Fully Loaded 2000
Austin vs Angle Summerslam 2001
Eddie vs JBL Judgement Day 2004
Eddie vs Mysterio Smackdown 6/23/05
Benoit vs Finlay Judgement Day 2006
Cena vs Umaga Last Man Standing Royal Rumble 2007
Christian vs Swagger ECW 2/24/09
Cena vs Punk Money In The Bank 2011
Cena vs Lesnar Extreme Rules 2012

Loads of matches that could easily slip into that list. Christian/Swagger probably sticks out as the most 'out there' choice but fuck it, there may not be 3 title matches better than it in company history. I adore everything about the match, from the storytelling, the character dynamic, the selling, the control segment, how the transitions are dominated by the veteran instincts of Christian and the speed/power of Swagger, the payoff to the early work in the finish. Its just something that I find new appreciation for on every watch. 

I can see the argument for matches like Foley/HHH Street Fight, Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho, Savage/Steamboat, HHH/Batista HIAC, HBK/Tsker 25 and 26 (disagree with both being that high but I could understand), Batista/Tsker, Angle/Undertaker NWO, Savage/Flair (rewatch has a good chance of pushing this into that upper bracket) and other matches, but Swagger/Christian just has something magical about it. I also really wanted to put Hardy/Edge Unforgiven there but decided against it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> OH CAL. STARZ 4 WRASSLE-MANIA 2000 (which I just popped into my Laptop) ?


Funny, that AND the Flair/Steamboat series were plugged after I just watched them. Interesting. Then I jumped to Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 again. Yeah, don't think that's ever going to change from being number one in my heart. TAG TEAM WRESTLING.



GOON The Legend said:


> Is Benoit/Booker any good from No Way Out 2006?


Total snoozefest. Not worth your time.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WRASSLIN


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll try with Benoit: (doing WWE only since I'm a bit uncomfortable with the rest not having seen much and I may forget some)

vs Angle - RR 03
vs HHH vs HBK - WM20
vs Austin - SD 01
vs Rock - FL 00
vs Jericho - RR 01
w/ Jericho vs Austin/HHH - Raw 01
w/ Angle vs Rey/Edge - NM 02
vs HHH vs HBK - BL 04
vs Orton - SS 04
vs Lesnar - SD 03
vs Finlay - JD 06
vs Regal - VEL 05
Elimination Chamber - NYR 05
vs Orton - SD 06 (No Holds Barred)
vs HBK - Raw (May 04)
vs Kane - BB 04
vs HHH - Raw 04 (Ironman)
vs Eddie - VEN 03
TLC III - SD 01
MITB I - WM21


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWE top 15 (maybe):

Backlund v Valentine 2/19/79
Backlund v Patera 5/19/80
Backlund v Slaughter 1/10/81
Backlund v Slaughter 3/21/81
Slaughter v Sheik 6/16/84
Savage v Steamboat 3/29/87
Hart v Mr. Perfect 6/13/93
Hart v Hart 3/20/94
Michaels v Mankind 9/22/96
Hart v Austin 11/17/96
Hart v Austin 3/29/97
Michaels v Taker 10/5/97
The Rock v Austin 4/1/01
Mysterio v Guerrero 6/23/05
Benoit v Finlay 5/21/06

Chronological order just because. Again, it's a 'maybe' list, but I can't think of any match I've seen that I think is better than the worst match there. 




The Rawk said:


> Was that March 2012 Bryan match the one with each guy pinning the other and having the match restarted by the GM's?
> 
> Also didn't Punk and Mysterio have a match in 08 or 09 on PPV?


Armageddon 08. I remember liking a ton live, even when I couldn't stand CM Punk.



HayleySabin said:


> Funny, that AND the Flair/Steamboat series were plugged after I just watched them. Interesting. Then I jumped to Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 again.



I'LL BEAT THAT~! I just watched that piece of shit Chuck Taylor waste what could have been a perfectly good Sami Callihan match. 







Yay.......


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like CHUCK. Which match was it?

I assure you Sami vs Willie Mack from BOLA '12 is a touch more frustrating b/c Mack is so bad. Might be the biggest carry job I've ever witnessed.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It was from the Super Indy tournament. Sami was trying to build the match and hit some signature stuff but shitty ass Chuck Taylor was shitty-assing it up with his Chuck Taylorness by yelling like a girl, taking the bumps softly, hugging people in the crowd and treating the whole thing like a joke. Fucking ******. He has to be my least favourite wrestler of all time.

I watched Sami/Strong v Generico/Mack and actually liked Mack.  He fooled around a little, but the 'Two Husky Black Guys' thing was actually fun and when it came time to be serious he wasn't yelling like a girl and being a fucking Chuck Taylor-like fucking ******. 

"Biggest carryjob" would be an interesting topic.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Ratings on the Jericho/Mysterio from '09?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that sounds like traditional Chuckie T. He scares children. He's cool with me. 

Well, look who Mack was in the ring with. Anyone who teams with EL GENERICO can pull their weight more than enough to look fine. He's been elevated in a singles match or two, but overall he's not for me.

It's a different topic. I credited Undertaker vs carrying Mr. Kennedy the entire way through their match @ No Mercy 2006 yesterday. Seems almost as if I'm fixated on the subject right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Chuck Taylor? So now a shoe is wrestling? :lol

Furthermore on Raw 06: Umaga had a good TV match with HBK (Shawn is underrated in this David/Goliath kind of matches) then Vince pulls off more retarded shit as he tries to attack HBK in the ring only to be stopped by "God's" pyro/fire on the turnbuckle/ramp. This one was so bad, it was good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Ratings on the Jericho/Mysterio from '09?


Judgment Day - ****
Extreme Rules - ****1/4
The Bash - ****1/2

I'd have to relieve the RAW & Smackdown matches to slap a "rating" next to them, but they all well worth a watch much like the PPV counterparts.



Choke2Death said:


> Chuck Taylor? So now a shoe is wrestling? :lol







Longer haired cat. From one of the best matches of 2012.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Tried watching some old school wrestling (flair/windham flair/steamboat) and just couldn't get emotionally invested into it. Old school wrestling tends to be slow, chop after chop, punch after punch, lots of restholds, armdrags and hardly any believable near falls. Now don't get me wrong I love technical wrestling but old school wrestling just seems to fucking bore me, It feels like a chore sitting through some matches and a lot of the wrestlers seem really slow and lathargic. Just my opinion, anyone else feel the same?

I feel like wrestlings progressed a lot over the years and become more exciting, I just don't see the praise over some old school wrestling matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Couldn't be further from my opinion, tbhayley.

I'd take so much from the early 90's over work in today's era it isn't funny. I know some who would go into the early 80's with their opinion of the best stuff they've seen.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think what makes it so hard to get invested in old-school wrestling is the fact because I wasn't around to actually see those matches build up as they were happening, see what went into everything and the whole story, it's more difficult to really get into something than something I did live through and remember the story fairly well even if it was back in 2000. I mean, I could just google and/or find whatever videos I can to get the build up and get an understanding of the story, but it's just not the same. The exceptions are usually the big matches, or matches of guys I am/was a huge fan of. Like I could probably go watch a Mr. Perfect match no problem, and Flair matches are always a joy to watch, but to find a Sammartino match, watch it, and be able to enjoy it, it's a real chore. Same thing for Steamboat, even though I loved his match with Savage at WM3 and his Flair matches I did have high when I last watched them (which may have been my first watch ever, several years ago), I'm just not that into him and usually watching his matches is more for the other guy, no disrespect meant. 

If a match from way back between two guys I'm only fairly familiar with could get such a high rating from me, I think that's more impressive than giving any Punk or Taker match *****. But yeah... need some more lists for the superstars in my last post. Choke2Death and Pierre McDunk had quite a few matches I'd forgotten to put on the list, ranging from ***3/4-****1/4. So I'm certain I'm forgetting plenty from the other guys.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Smackdown 2006 Project: No Way Out 2006*​
*Cruserweight Open - No Way Out 2006
*This was a nine man match for Gregory Helms' Cruserweight Championship. This match basically consisted of a bunch of flips and Gregory Helms eating almost everyone's finisher. I'm not going to write too much about this match because so much happened that I can hardly remember it all, much less put it all into words. This match was basically your typical WWE Cruserweight match where some entertaining stuff happened but at the end of the day, it was just "fine." I wouldn't say that this match is anything worth going out of your way to see but for an opener, this was perfectly fine.
*Rating: **1/2* 

*JBL vs. Bobby Lashley - No Way Out 2006*
There was no real formal ring introductions for this match, as Lashley made his way to the ring to save Krystal from Finlay, while JBL made his entrance while Lashley was fighting with Finlay. Sadly for JBL, Lashley had already given Finlay a belly-to-belly suplex and was ready for JBL by the time he entered the ring. Lashley dominated the opening portion of the match until JBL tossed Lashley out of the ring, which allowed JBL to go on the attack for a control segment that seemed to last forever. Lashley made his comeback and during this comeback, JBL suffered a nasty cut near his eye which was probably caused by one of Lashley's punches. Finlay would make his return to ringside and tossed TONY CHIMEL in the ring, which caused a long enough distraction for Finlay to hit Lashley with his shaleighleigh to give JBL the victory. This match was fine outside of the long JBL control segment. It's not something that I would ever watch again though.
*Rating: ***

*Matt Hardy and Tatanka vs. MNM - No Way Out 2006
*I didn't want to watch this match at first but I decided that I might as well since it was the only match (outside of Booker/Benoit) that I didn't plan to watch on this show. Much like the Cruserweight match, I don't have much to say about this match outside of saying that I didn't enjoy it that much. It was fine when Matt Hardy was in but it dragged when Tatanka was in. Tatanka put Mercury away with a Samoan Drop and thankfully ended this match. On the bright side, I'm only one match away from being able to watch Orton/Mysterio and Angle/Undertaker.
*Rating: *1/2*

*Chris Benoit vs. Booker T - No Way Out 2006
*This match ended up going about five minutes too long. The match itself was fine and I enjoyed some of the action, such as Booker playing possum in an attempt to kill Benoit's momentum, Booker bringing back the Houston Hangover, and the finish. Outside of those moments though, the match ended up being pretty dull, especially the middle portions. Had they cut this match by about five minutes, it could have ended up being pretty decent which also would have forced them to cut out the dull portions of the match. Considering who was involved, I expected a bit better.
*Rating: **1/2*

*Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - No Way Out 2006
*Randy Orton was a complete prick to start the match, as he out-wrestled Mysterio to start and then slapped Mysterio in the back of the head, which was basically Orton telling Mysterio: "you're my bitch." Mysterio doesn't take too kindly to this, as Mysterio comes back and makes Orton his bitch by taking him down with his quick and hard-hitting offense. This quick spurt by Mysterio didn't stop Orton from acting like a cocky prick, as he quickly went back to being his arrogant self after he got back on the advantage. Perhaps the pinnacle of Orton's "prickness" in this match was after Mysterio tried to jump onto Orton on the outside of the ring, but Orton grabbed Mysterio and swung Mysterio into the steel ring post in a cool spot. Afterwards, Orton rolled into the ring and did his Legend Killer pose, which got a good amount of heat from the crowd and Tazz calling him a "son of a bitch." 

Orton would then work on Mysterio's left arm, which was one of Mysterio's body parts that hit the ring post. During this period of the match, Mysterio would get in a few shots on Orton but outside of that, Orton would stay on the attack. At one point, Orton put Mysterio's injured arm on the steel ring steps and stomped on it. After the did that, a concerned fan said: "Come on Randy, he's a midget~!" I howled with laughter at that comment. Mysterio would make his comeback a few minutes later, which is always an entertaining portion of Mysterio matches. I really liked the spot when Orton was about to launch for the RKO but Mysterio caught him with a dropkick instead. The finish was great as well, as Orton won in a prickish way (just like how he had been acting the entire match) and it kept Mysterio looking strong despite the loss. Tazz uttering "son of a bitch" after Orton won made me snicker, as did most of the slander Tazz and Michael Cole directed towards Randy Orton on commentary. In conclusion, THIS MATCH WAS AWESOME~!
*Rating: ****1/4*

*The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle - No Way Out 2006
*Currently, the previous Orton/Mysterio match is my 2006 MOTY but that may not last long, as I've heard GREAT things about this match. Hell, I've even seen ***** ratings for it. Let's see if this match lives up to the hype.

The opening ten minutes or so was spent on both men working on specific body parts of their opponent, with Undertaker focusing on Angle's arm while Angle (rightfully) focused on Undertaker's leg. Angle gets a lot of shit for his psychology but in this match he was just fantastic. His leg work on Undertaker is brutal (in a good way) and he shockingly works on the same leg the entire match. At one point in the match, Angle put the ankle lock on the Undertaker on the outside of the ring not once, but twice in an attempt to destroy Taker's ankle. 

The climax in this match was also top notch. It all started with Angle giving Undertaker the Angle Slam through the Spanish announce table. Referee Nick Patrick was about to count Undertaker out when Angle stopped him at a count of nine by telling him "I'm going to beat this motherfucker in the ring. This is bullshit." He then let out a giant roar and that was when you knew it was on~! They then kept reversing each other's moves, which was awesome as hell watching and probably would have been even more awesome (if it is possible) had I been watching this live and not known the outcome. Both Angle and Taker kicked out of each other's signature moves, with Taker kicking out of an Angle Slam and Angle kicking out of a choke slam. Hell, I was marking out and I knew exactly who was going to win!

This match was nearly reaching GOAT-status (at least when it comes to WWE matches) until the end came, which I wasn't a fan of. I understand that they needed to keep both men strong going into Wrestlemania but if they were going to have this sort of finish to such a great match, they needed to have a rematch where we end up having a clear winner. It's a small complaint though, as this match was just nearly thirty minutes of pure greatness. They should have had Taker/Angle II at Wrestlemania instead of the Taker/Henry casket match and Angle/Mysterio/Orton triple threat. 

Nothing is going to top this match when it comes to deciding what will be on the top of my list when I finish this Smackdown 2006 project. THIS will be #1 and I don't think it will even be close. Kudos to both of these men.
*Rating: ****3/4*

*Overall Thoughts*: This was a two match show basically, with both Orton/Mysterio and Taker/Angle both being awesome. The rest of the card, however, never got past the "average" stage in terms of quality. On a six match card though, that is fine since two of the matches were **** or higher. Benoit/Booker, while boring in parts, was fine and didn't really harm anything. Lashley/JBL could have been worse and the Cruserweight Open was fine. The only real stinker on the card was the tag match but it was somewhat short and it was only one blemish on an otherwise pretty good show.


EDIT- I haven't watched much Old School Pro Graps, but from what I've seen it's pretty good. I love me some Old School RIC FLAIR~!

But yeah, I find it hard to watch something that happened before 1984 mostly. When you factor in the poor quality the match is probably in and the fact you probably have no idea why the two are fighting, it's hard to get into it. I'd love to be able to enjoy BACKLUND in his prime but it'll be pretty hard for to do so.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I loved Taker/Angle's ending. As said, perfect way to have both guys looking strong. It is shame there wasn't a re-match with a more decisive winner, but it doesn't take away from the ending for me. And at least it did lead to a rematch, an awesome one at that.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The Rawk said:


> I loved Taker/Angle's ending. As said, perfect way to have both guys looking strong. It is shame there wasn't a re-match with a more decisive winner, but it doesn't take away from the ending for me. And at least it did lead to a rematch, an awesome one at that.


I wouldn't have minded the ending had it led to a decisive rematch. It seemed like that is what they were going towards, especially with Undertaker telling Angle that he "wasn't done with him" after the match. They should have just found someway to put the belt onto Orton and go with Orton/Mysterio II and Taker/Angle II for Wrestlemania. Yes, I know they would have been rematches from No Way Out but Mysterio still hated Orton and Taker still wanted to beat Angle. My personal preference would have been Streak vs. Title at Wrestlemania but a non-title rematch would have been just fine.

It would have been better than what we ended up getting at Wrestlemania. That's for sure.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The only reason they went with the roll-up was because Taker never taps out and the Angle Slam has no credibility as a finisher.

Great review GOON, and you're on the money with the main events. Two excellent matches and far better options for WM than what we ended up getting. (personally would've preferred Benoit/Taker though)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Like I said, I agree with just about everything, but I still don't think it made the finish hurt the match. 

That being said, Taker/Angle would've been fine for that Mania, but I'm more with Choke2Death on wanting Taker/Benoit for Mania 22. I mean if Taker could have a ***** classic with Angle at NWO, you could only imagine what he and Benoit would've done. 

Man, Mania 22 could've been something amazing. Edge/Foley as it was was a borderline classic plus Taker/Benoit, and Shawn/Eddie... THAT would've been a truly amazing Mania, where even the underwhelming title matches wouldn't have hurt things too badly. Sadly Eddie died and that couldn't be helped, but Taker/Benoit still could've been done. It was still a decent show, but one of my least favorite Manias of the 20's so far. I'd put 20, 21, 23, 24, 26, and 28 above it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOON go search out Backlund vs Hogan from 4/12/80. It's the best Hogan match ever.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched SD for Mark Henry. Orton wasn't too good in the main event. Added one notable facial sell but was mostly a bunch of average punches and he kind of looked lost (in a five minute match). Henry was great with the cut-offs, he looked rugged on offense and it was a big moment when he was taken down despite the fact they just BAAAARELY built to it with minimal weeble-wobble selling. Man, between this and the Khali chop sell, does anyone in the company take offense better than Henry? Doubt it. Total Henry show, I am so excited for his 2013 and will honest-to-God possibly try to watch every match he has this year. I hope he becomes Wrestler of the Decade.



Choke2Death said:


> Furthermore on Raw 06: Umaga had a good TV match with HBK (Shawn is underrated in this David/Goliath kind of matches) then Vince pulls off more retarded shit as he tries to attack HBK in the ring only to be stopped by "God's" pyro/fire on the turnbuckle/ramp. This one was so bad, it was good.


That's the best match Michaels had in his incredibly shitty 2006. Wait, it might be a different match if he had more than one v Umaga. Either way it was good shit and the only Michaels match from 06 I like other than the HHH match from Raw.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I might as well tell you EVERYTHING off the top of my head from Triple H that's worth watching , I'll just post the pre-first quad tear stuff now and I'll think of some more stuff later ;

KOTR 1997 vs Mankind
IYH 16 Canadian Stampede vs Mankind
SS 1997 vs Mankind (Steel Cage)
ONO 1997 vs Dude Love 
22/09/97 RAW vs Cactus Jack (Street Fight)
NWO 98 W/New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega vs Owen Hart/Cactus Jack/Chainsaw Charlie/Steve Austin
SS 98 vs The Rock (Ladder Match)
BL 99 vs X-Pac 
NM 99 vs Steve Austin
RR 00 vs Cactus Jack (Street Fight)
07/02/00 RAW W/ The Radicalz vs Rock/Foley/Too Cool
NWO 00 vs Cactus Jack (HIAC)
WM 00 vs The Rock vs Big Show vs Mick Foley
BL 00 vs The Rock
JD 00 vs The Rock (Ironman Match)
FL 00 vs Chris Jericho (Last Man Standing)
NM 00 vs Chris Benoit
NWO 01 vs Steve Austin (3SOH)
WM X-7 vs The Undertaker
BL 01 W/Steve Austin vs The Undertaker/Kane
21/05/01 RAW w/Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho

That's pretty much your essential HHH matches during his first PRE-INJURY run. There's another Benoit match and another Jericho match in 2000 that I have no fucking clue what the date is TBH (NOT the one where Jericho wins the title). Unless you're a diehard of THE GAME, those matches are practically all you need in terms of pre injury / ATTITUDE ERA matches. 10 Foley matches out of 21, HE CARRIED THE GAME.

:jpl THE GAME.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd add these

v Michaels 5/13/96 (honestly, I'd say this is maybe a top 3 HHH/Michaels match)
v Michaels 12/25/97 (*****, top 10 all time)
w/Benoit v Rock/Jericho 4/24/00
v Jericho 6/12/00 (prob the one you were talking about, and better than the Dusty finish "title switch" - I don't remember the Benoit match, but I want to see it.)
v Rock v Angle 6/26/00 (smokes the SummerSlam match and is just really, really fun. One of my favourite 3-ways in WWE ever. Maybe my favourite)
That Jeff Hardy upset in 2001 (IDK date)

They aren't 'top 100 etc' material, but they need some more loving and are way better than a lot of HHH's big PPV matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd add these
> 
> *v Michaels 5/13/96 (honestly, I'd say this is maybe a top 3 HHH/Michaels match)*
> v Michaels 12/25/97 (*****, top 10 all time)
> ...


I LEGIT THOUGHT I HAD THAT ONE ON THERE. WTF.... GAME'S first real good match in the WWF after practically a year of squashes, Henry Godwinn, Duke Drose, and Marc Mero 

_ESSENTIAL GAME FROM FIRST RETURN - WRESTLEMANIA XXI_

JD 02 vs Chris Jericho (HIAC)
SS 02 vs Shawn Michaels (Unsanctioned)
UNF 02 vs Rob Van Dam
SS 02 vs Booker T vs Rob Van Dam vs Shawn Michaels vs Kane vs Chris Jericho (Chamber)
WM XIX vs Booker T
29/12/03 RAW vs Shawn Michaels
WM XX vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels
29/03/04 RAW vs Shelton Benjamin
12/04/04 RAW W/Evolution vs HBK/Foley/Benoit/Benjamin
BL 04 vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels
26/07/04 vs Chris Benoit (Ironman)
SS 04 vs Eugene
SS 04 W/Batista/Edge/Snitsky vs Benoit/Orton/Jericho/Maven
29/11/04 RAW vs Chris Benoit vs Edge
NYR 05 vs Batista vs Jericho vs Benoit vs Orton vs Edge (Chamber)
RR 05 vs Randy Orton
04/02/05 RAW vs Edge
14/03/05 RAW vs Chris Benoit

AGAIN, these are only the ESSENTIAL matches ; There's a shit ton of matches that aren't as high on STARZ but still awesome like the 03 Flair match on RAW, 04 Tajiri match on RAW, and a TON of RAW Evolution tags that fucking rocked and that I would put on a personal Triple H comp (which, is somebody was ever willing to make for me with his best TV matches I'd probably for over a good 60-80 bucks to purchase it since I practically own all of his PPV matches). *RAWK* , I knew you were looking for what's GOOD and not FUN, so that's why I listed these matches with two more mini lists to go.

Then you'll have all THE GAME you need :jpl


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

MARC MERO IS AWESOME. Actually I'm sure there is a HHH/Mero match that's really worth watching. I think there was one on the 96 yearbook but if it was that good I would remember it. It's a series I wouldn't mind doing in full order one day.


Has anyone seen the HHH/Eugene cage match from 2005? That could be really good and I've been meaning to watch it for months now.

I'm pretty sure there is a HHH set on Corey's Site with like 120 discs that goes from 1995-2009 or something. Might be every match/promo he's had on there, but I haven't looked at it in a while. EDIT - Checked, it goes to late 06 and is I think a bunch of comps fused with each other.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Keep em comin. Most of these HHH matches I either had on the list, or I'm not ready to put on yet. HHH/Edge/Benoit Raw, Austin/HHH NM99, and the BL 01 tag were added after seeing your post. Pretty much all the pre-00 stuff I've never seen besides Rock at Summerslam and Austin at No Mercy, so I'll get around to watching a few of them at least. I've heard great things about the Mankind KOTR match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LINK ME TO IT PLZ  .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oh, and don't worry about matches not being top 100 worthy. I'm already up to 250.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I always hear about Evolution vs The World tag matches, but I can never find them, anyone have some links?

Also Rawk, I am actually in the process of doing a Top 1000, but it spans all promotions so yep.

WRASSLIN


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> LINK ME TO IT PLZ  .


http://www.coreystapes.com/hhh.html

I've never bought anything from him, but I'm pretty sure Cal has. Cal, is he reliable? Is he, as you would call the Bear (who I've also never bought from), a cunt!? I think Andy had some Shawn Michaels discs from him that didn't work.

Too bad KeepItFresh isn't around here, I think he had all the 1990s discs of the actual HHH comp and could say if they were shitty or not shitty. Pretty sure was OK with them.



The Rawk said:


> Oh, and don't worry about matches not being top 100 worthy. I'm already up to 250.


Good, then watch this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA-BTCvvETE

Not because it's that good, but because it's way better than it has any right to be. Between this and this Angle match at the Rumble I'm wondering if Trip actually made for a fun babyface in 2002.

I forgot - is your list favourites or best? If it's favourites I could recommend just about ANYTHING. Evil laugh. 


I'd recommend using Meltzer's ratings, too. Not because of Meltzer, but there's a lot of stuff here that looks interesting that could be good whether or not Meltzer can have horrible taste.  http://starratingslist.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/wwe-observer-star-ratings-1986-present.html

These HHH matches look interesting to me

1/10/00 Triple H/X-Pac/New Age Outlaws vs. Mankind/Rock/Acolytes ***1/2
9/20/04 Chris Benoit/Randy Orton/Shelton Benjamin vs. Triple H/Batista/Ric Flair ***3/4
12/6/04 Triple H/Batista vs. Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho ***1/2
12/13/04 Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs. Triple H/Batista ***3/4
5/2/05 Triple H vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
10/24/08 Undertaker vs. Triple H "***1/2 range"


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.coreystapes.com/hhh.html
> 
> I've never bought anything from him, but I'm pretty sure Cal has. Cal, is he reliable? Is he, as you would call the Bear (who I've also never bought from), a cunt!? I think Andy had some Shawn Michaels discs from him that didn't work.
> 
> ...


Don't recall the 00 match, but I can tell you that honestly all of those Evolution tags are complete fucking boss and everybody needs to see them ASAP. The Chris Benoit match was going to be included once I listed more off and is probably the TV MOTY for 2005 in all honestly, and the best singles match that HHH/Benoit ever had together. Probably one of my favorite Triple H matches ever believe it or not as Benoit's selling is SO fucking good and the Game just tears that shit apart.

I don't like that Undertaker match at all IIRC , think it was just a random throwaway match with nothing of significance to it, just two big names wrestling their standard matches.


----------



## wrestlespot (Jan 29, 2013)

Best of WCW Monday Nitro Volume 2 DVD Intro
http://tinyurl.com/b4dauof


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_ESSENTIAL GAME FROM WRESTLEMANIA XXI - SECOND QUAD TEAR_

BL 05 vs Batista
02/05/05 RAW vs Chris Benoit
VEN 05 vs Batista (HIAC)
TT 05 vs Ric Flair (Cage)
SS 05 vs Ric Flair (LMS)
NYR 06 vs Big Show
13/02/06 RAW vs Big Show
WM XXII vs John Cena
BL 06 vs Edge vs John Cena
NYR 07 W/Shawn Michaels vs Rated RKO

Only 10 matches here that epitomize GREATNEZZZ!*!*! when it comes to STARZ but in terms of fun matches Trips had a number of them throughout this period including Raw matches with Flair, RVD/SHOW, and a couple of pretty damn good tag matches. AVOID ALL DX BESIDES THE MATCH I LISTED. IT IS FUCKING BAD.

This list should be pretty short but nonetheless .... 

_ESSENTIAL GAME FROM INJURY RETURN - PRESENT_

NM 07 vs Randy Orton (LMS)
CS 07 vs Umaga (Street Fight)
NOC 08 vs John Cena
NM 08 vs Jeff Hardy
30/12/08 SD vs Big Show (LMS)
22/06/09 vs Randy Orton (LMS)
SS 09 W/HBK vs Legacy
19/10/09 RAW vs John Cena
SS 09 vs John Cena
WM XXVII vs The Undertaker
NOC 11 vs CM Punk
WM XXVIII vs The Undertaker (HIAC)
SS 12 vs Brock Lesnar

So many more kick-ass GAME matches from this period with Jeff Hardy, Shelton Benjamin, BIG SHOW, and many many more. Hunter's Smackdown matches usually got a ton of time and I swear every week he had another three star match under his belt, some of which I'm probably not even paying dues to.

So yeah, there's basically your essential 60ish GAME matches. If you want some FUN ones just let me know and I'll see what I can do, but for one last time...

THE GAME :jpl


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched SD for Mark Henry. Orton wasn't too good in the main event. Added one notable facial sell but was mostly a bunch of average punches and he kind of looked lost (in a five minute match). Henry was great with the cut-offs, he looked rugged on offense and it was a big moment when he was taken down despite the fact they just BAAAARELY built to it with minimal weeble-wobble selling. Man, between this and the Khali chop sell, does anyone in the company take offense better than Henry? Doubt it. Total Henry show, I am so excited for his 2013 and will honest-to-God possibly try to watch every match he has this year. I hope he becomes Wrestler of the Decade.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the best match Michaels had in his incredibly shitty 2006. Wait, it might be a different match if he had more than one v Umaga. Either way it was good shit and the only Michaels match from 06 I like other than the HHH match from Raw.


Does that mean you don't echo the love for Shawn vs Vince & Shawn + GOD vs McMahons like I do? 

Oh, and Mark fucking Henry.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Okay. I've got every nitro from 1995-1997. all the ppvs too. (wcw). should I continue downloading 98-01? or should i download something else. i will be watching the ambrose/rollins series soon too


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> _ESSENTIAL GAME FROM WRESTLEMANIA XXI - SECOND QUAD TEAR_
> 
> BL 05 vs Batista
> 02/05/05 RAW vs Chris Benoit
> ...


I wouldn't AVOIDFORFACKSAKESDAMMIT the Handicap HIAC w/HBK vs. Vinny, Shane and TBS @ Unforgiven 06. I was actually pretty good.

And because CONTRAVERSY is always amazing:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Depends on what you want. '98 is pretty classic for WCW. What with Goldberg, Jericho's amazing work, general nature of the Cruiserweights, nWo Wolfpac formation, DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE RISES, Benoit vs Booker series, etc. '99 is an interesting bunch. The lost year of WCW outside of the tripe seen with the Flair going crazy angle and the horrendous latter months. But, a lot of the fun aspects in the year never seem to get remembered. 2000 dare I say speaks for itself. You'll know what to expect there. 2001 isn't much, but it's fun until it ends. Like *Big Z* has often pimped (and I second him on this) the Magnificent Seven faction was awesome.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i might download some old wwf stuff too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 Worst WM matches IMO:

1 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan WM 9
2 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole WM27
3 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar WM20
4 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Boss Man WM15
5 - 10-Diva Tag WM26


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Ratings on the Jericho/Mysterio from '09?


The Bash ****1/2

I don't remember the other two matches but the match they had at The Bash is my #2 match of the year after Taker/HBK.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

ATF said:


> Top 5 Worst WM matches IMO:
> 
> 1 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan WM 9
> 2 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole WM27
> ...


Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus WM28 :yes


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> _ESSENTIAL GAME FROM WRESTLEMANIA XXI - SECOND QUAD TEAR_


I'd add: 

v Michaels 3/27/06
William Regal matches in 2008.
He faced Henry in 2008. Don't remember watching it but Henry. Henry.

Not essential but fuggit they should be watched.

Also wow @ LMS v Big Show in 08. Don't remember that at all and sounds intriguing. 



HayleySabin said:


> Does that mean you don't echo the love for Shawn vs Vince & Shawn + GOD vs McMahons like I do?
> 
> Oh, and Mark fucking Henry.


Actually I was surprised at how much I liked Michaels/McMahon on re-watch last year. Don't like the handicap (um...."tag"), though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My top 5 WM worst matches:

5. Taker vs Sid Justice
4. Taker vs Giant Gonzales
3. John Cena vs The Miz
2. Brock Lesnar vs Goldberg
1. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus WM28 :yes


Fuck, I didn't even consider it. Might replace Taker vs Bossman as the 4th worst.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> Alright, I've been compiling my top list of matches... which I will eventually post... trying to get to 1,000 (might settle at 500 if 1,000 isn't possible as I'm not even sure if I've seen 1,000 matches). I just need to get some ideas of matches I may have missed and should add, or matches I need to watch, and as such, I'd like the top 10-20 (or however many you'd like to put) from each of these guys (preferably WWE only, but if something is REALLY good and not too long, I'll consider venturing out into unknown waters):
> 
> CM Punk
> Daniel Bryan
> ...


I'll have a crack at Edge:

vs M. Hardy - Unforgiven 2005
vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXIV and Summerslam
TLC I, II, III
+ Mysterio vs Angle + Benoit - NM 2002 and Smackdown
vs Guerrero vs Angle vs Benoit - Smackdown
vs Guerrero No DQ - Smackdown
vs Flair TLC - RAW
vs Foley - Wrestlemania 22
Smackdown Elimination Chamber 2011
vs Ziggler - Royal Rumble
vs Orton vs Michaels vs Cena

personal favourites mostly

and if you're putting Sheamus/Bryan as a worst WM match, you've got to have Kane/Chavo too


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

ATF said:


> Fuck, I didn't even consider it. Might replace Taker vs Bossman as the 4th worst.


My first mania came all the way from Australia, to see dat boy D Bryan and its over before I sat down. Worst thing was my mate called it that morning. I was mentally depressed till HBK came out :mark: 

All things considered it has to be the worst mania match for me ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Tried watching some old school wrestling (flair/windham flair/steamboat) and just couldn't get emotionally invested into it. Old school wrestling tends to be slow, chop after chop, punch after punch, lots of restholds, armdrags and hardly any believable near falls. Now don't get me wrong I love technical wrestling but old school wrestling just seems to fucking bore me, It feels like a chore sitting through some matches and a lot of the wrestlers seem really slow and lathargic. Just my opinion, anyone else feel the same?
> 
> I feel like wrestlings progressed a lot over the years and become more exciting, I just don't see the praise over some old school wrestling matches.


No-one really appreciates old school wrestling for the agility and athleticism though, like I have no qualms with you not digging it, its cool. We all have different tastes and that's what makes for fun discussion as opposed to everyone pimping the same thing.

To me the beauty of old school wrestling is the simplicity. The structure, the timing, the pacing, the character dynamics all work to overcome the largely simplistic wrestling. Ric Flair didn't wrestle matches 100 other guys couldn't of in terms of bumps and offence, but it was his ability to time and make each transition and sequence matter in the greater context, combined with his injection of his charisma and presence into his matches to create a compelling babyface vs heel dynamic. The beauty of Windham/Flair and Steamboat/Flair is how the rookie naivety of Windham plays into every transition into Flair offence, and in Steamboat's case its the matter of two equals duelling and timing each transition in a way that makes both look magnificent.

Don't even get me started on the beauty of 80s blood baths. The grainy footage can be hard to watch but I adore its visual. Makes everything look seedly, raw and insanely violent especially when you've got people like Lawler, Duggan, Sawyer and Dundee pouring blood and stiffing the crap out of each other. The reactions they can generate from simple punching and selling is incredible and whilst the majority of the brawls are punch and kick based...it comes off as an authentic brawl. I'm not a fan of the modern generation of weapons and props having to compensate for the ability to just punch a dude you dislike square in the jaw and draw blood. Its all in the simplicity and characteristics between the moves that makes 70s and 80s old school wrestling so enigmatic.

As I said though, you not digging it is cool. We're all different and that's what makes this thread so interesting.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll add these for Edge:

Edge/Christian/Kurt Angle v Too Cool/Rikishi Judgment Day 2000(I don't care what you do, what anyone does, what anything ANYTHING ANYTHING. WATCH. THIS. MATCH.)
w/Christian v Taker/Rock SD 11/00 (IDR the exact date, but it's probably the best 2-on-2 E&C tag)
Any match with Orton in 2004. They had three, I think? Probably more.
v Michaels 1/22/07 (I THINK I liked this....I think)
v Orton 4/30/07 (I don't REALLY remember this personally but it has fans)
v Benoit 6/8/07 (I'd call this the second best Edge match ever tbh. Benoit with the great performance three weeks before he dies)
v John Morrsion 6/19/09 (he wasn't champ at the time, but this was almost like Edge's take on Ric Flair. Sort of. I mean he kind of felt like the big man on campus while Morrison was trying to pull off an upset. He had a nice hierarchy formula laid out. Edge is what, 6'5"? This was one of the only times I can remember where he actually felt that tall, and it sort of seemed like Morrison had to chop him down. Good shit. I don't think too highly of Edge, and he did still _some_ stuff in this match I really dislike, but I'd love it if he worked liked this more often)

Does the TLC with Cena hold up?


@WOOLCOCK agreed with the part about the VQ. I think there's a certain charm to shitty ass grainy taping of some matches that almost add to the experience and make it feel so classic. In some ways it's like the sprites on the Super Nintendo - I just love that look and style. There's just a feel to it that's almost legendary. I think it's actually a bit of a shame the whole 'HD/great quality' thing is so important to some people.

That said there are some VQs that I would like to change. I mean there's "charming style of video quality" and then there's "this MS-1 v Sangre Chicana was great a second ago but IDK what the fuck is going on right now"


----------



## TAR (Jan 1, 2012)

Since this is the thread for Official DVD Discussion thread, brought the Volume 4 Wrestlemania Anthology 2000-2004 last week. Gotta say, as much as I hated the dubbed themes and blurred out WWF logos.. I still loved the era as much as I did love it when it was happening.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> My first mania came all the way from Australia, to see dat boy D Bryan and its over before I sat down. Worst thing was my mate called it that morning. I was mentally depressed till HBK came out :mark:
> 
> All things considered it has to be the worst mania match for me ever.


That sounds brutal. D-BRY is the guy I would've bought tickets for as well. I was sitting at home watching and it almost ruined my night. I can only imagine how it would've felt live. Sitting through Kane/Orton was such a chore. Trips/Taker/HBK basically saved Mania for me that night.

Thinking about it, it's ridiculous that Bryan is still yet to have a match at Mania. He better get some time this year. Damn it Vince, stop bumping him!

Watched some of ER12 last night. So great.

Bryan/Sheamus - ****
Punk/Jericho - ***3/4
Brock/Cena - ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been years since I bought discs from Corey, but I never had any problems. You just have to check to make sure if the sets are one big set or multiple ones thrown together lol. Like the 14 disc Malenko set I got from him is actually about 4 different sets with a couple of repeats here and there. He has been upgrading a lot of his sets over the years though, adding menus and joining sets together so they ARE just one. But yeah, definitely read through the listings page to fully make sure first.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> @WOOLCOCK agreed with the part about the VQ. I think there's a certain charm to shitty ass grainy taping of some matches that almost add to the experience and make it feel so classic. In some ways it's like the sprites on the Super Nintendo - I just love that look and style. There's just a feel to it that's almost legendary. I think it's actually a bit of a shame the whole 'HD/great quality' thing is so important to some people.
> 
> That said there are some VQs that I would like to change. I mean there's "charming style of video quality" and then there's "this MS-1 v Sangre Chicana was great a second ago but IDK what the fuck is going on right now"


Agreed. There's something about HD and the overproduced shots of current WWE that sort of dilutes the passion and authenticity of a fight. I'm not saying they should be abandoning their cameras and production, because its top notch. But it does sort of scream how overly produced and set up it is. Compare that to a shaky cam in the 80s, the Memphis set up looking grainy, the blood and dirty ring canvas immediately catching your eye, the dim light arena making it hard to see a crowd except for the ridiculous noise they're making. Like Chicana/Perro 2/28/86 might be one of my most favourite matches in terms of visuals. The way they bump and punch and fly everywhere around ringside and the way the camera setup makes the whole thing feel seedy, dirty and chaotic just completes the match. Like in any setting that match would be incredible, but does it give off this 'to quote Andy human cockfighting' vibe in 2013 WWE with the HD shots and clean presentation? Sometimes seeing the poor quality just adds to how low cut everything is and allows the passion and energy to translate through the screen more than in an aesthetically greater camera.

MS-1/Chicana is pretty horrid to watch at certain points, luckily the bulk of what we get is just visible enough to take away the hatred and harrowing violence. Chicana/Villano might be the worst I've ever seen. It legit was blacked out to the point you could only spot them if they were in the centre of the ring.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I also really hate the current set up of the big WWE shows (or hell, even the TV tapings). I remember watching Mania 27 and Edge came out in the opener and the only thought running through my head was how friggin small he looked on that gigantic entrance stage. It really makes the wrestlers (supposed to be THA STARS) seem so tiny and over shadowed by the production. Maybe it's just me, but lot of the time I prefer the smaller set-ups without fifty thousand graphic screens in the arena and the not-HD cameras.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Another thing with production, which I never noticed until... maybe Cornette (maybe someone else, I forget) said in a shoot: watch a match, any match, and ANY TIME someone takes any kind of bump... they change camera. EVERY TIME. And now you know, you'll always notice it, and its almost like the Saturday morning slam show where the camera keeps cutting and makes you feeling nauseous lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've noticed that for a few years.  

Sometimes I kind of like it if they get closer up and show the bump at a better angle, but sometimes it's just 'this is ACTION PACKED! CHECK IT!'


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Random Ratings

Taker vs. Brock No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ***3/4 (bit slow and some lapsed psychology but otherwise a really brutal and entertaining affair)

Brock vs. Cena Extreme Rules 2012 - ***** (great selling, great crowd, shocking moments, stiff elbows, great story, well paced and one of my favorite matches of all time)

Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect KOTR 97 - ****1/2

Benoit vs. Regal No mercy 2006 - ****1/2

Triple h vs. Taker WM 28 HIAC - ****

Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Summerslam 2001 - ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker vs. Brock No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ****3/4
Brock vs. Cena Extreme Rules 2012 - ****1/2
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect KOTR 93 - ***** MOTY 93
Benoit vs. Regal No Mercy 2006 - ****1/4
Triple H vs. Taker WM 28 HIAC - ****3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Summerslam 2001 - ****3/4 MOTY 2001


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Yeah1993 said:


> I also really hate the current set up of the big WWE shows (or hell, even the TV tapings). I remember watching Mania 27 and Edge came out in the opener and the only thought running through my head was how friggin small he looked on that gigantic entrance stage. It really makes the wrestlers (supposed to be THA STARS) seem so tiny and over shadowed by the production. Maybe it's just me, but lot of the time I prefer the smaller set-ups without fifty thousand graphic screens in the arena and the not-HD cameras.


HD cameras are attrocious. I didn't have any beef with them until they made me uncomfortably familiar with Sheamus's chest acne and Christian's weird flesh colored beard.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Some random ratings before I go hunting more GEMZ:

Edge vs. Kurt Angle Backlash 2002: ****
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho Judgment Day 2008: ****1/4
Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan Halloween Havoc 1994: ****1/2
Goldberg vs. Scott Steiner Fall Brawl 2000: **** (shocked at how good this actually was)
Mark Henry vs. The Big Show Vengeance 2011: ***3/4 (see above)
JBL vs. John Cena TGAB 2008: ***3/4


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*pokes head into thread*



Srdjan99 said:


> My top 5 WM worst matches:
> 
> 5. Taker vs Sid Justice
> 4. Taker vs Giant Gonzales
> ...


I wouldn't call Bryan/Sheamus a contender for worst WM match. 

It wasn't excruciatingly bad and the hatred inherently stems not from their wrestling but from the mere fact that Sheamus won within the first half of a minute. It was hardly even a match. Of course the match deserves a DUD rating but the DUD is merely because there wasn't any wrestling to critique as opposed to a heap of shit that deserves the title of a dud.

Mr T/Roddy Piper WM 2
Butch/Luke Vs The Rouques WM 5
Andre Vs Hogan WM 3
Andre Vs Roberts WM 5

Those are all worse matches that actually got time.



Big Z said:


> Taker vs. Brock No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ****3/4


Quite a high review. 

I don't quite remember the match so well but what I do remember of it was that it was excruciatingly violent at the expense of psychology/logic/selling. I think I also preferred their chain match, too. Jeez, 10 years is a long-ass time. :argh:

★★★ *1/4*



WOOLCOCK said:


> No-one really appreciates old school wrestling for the agility and athleticism though, like I have no qualms with you not digging it, its cool. We all have different tastes and that's what makes for fun discussion as opposed to everyone pimping the same thing.
> 
> To me the beauty of old school wrestling is the simplicity. The structure, the timing, the pacing, the character dynamics all work to overcome the largely simplistic wrestling. Ric Flair didn't wrestle matches 100 other guys couldn't of in terms of bumps and offence, but it was his ability to time and make each transition and sequence matter in the greater context, combined with his injection of his charisma and presence into his matches to create a compelling babyface vs heel dynamic. The beauty of Windham/Flair and Steamboat/Flair is how the rookie naivety of Windham plays into every transition into Flair offence, and in Steamboat's case its the matter of two equals duelling and timing each transition in a way that makes both look magnificent.
> 
> ...


Great post that captures the very essence of old school wrasslin' in a nut shell.

I can understand where HWRP is coming from, though. It's a completely different style of wrestling to what the Americas are now. We've become complacent with elbows, lariats or punches not being effective moves outside of transition sequences. Pinfalls follow viscerally high-impact moves and the very nature of the wrestler's moveset is completely changed. If you buy into what wrestling of today tells you is the threshold someone can sustain you will have a hard time trying to justify the finishing moves of these matches, imo. I had that exact problem, admittedly, with both Puro and "golden-era" wrestling. I must have switched off Flair/Steamboat (Chi-Town) a good few times before finally getting in to it o). 

The nature of a move, in terms of its threat, is continually being challenged as wrestling ages. Only a few moves remain completely protected and as more and more wrestlers kick-out of finishers/dangerous moves the more a newer match needs to add to it in creating a believable finisher. Of course not everyone takes this to cuntingly annoying volumes but I'd say the transition is taking effect in the American indies and NOAH. Now, while you could correctly argue that RoH-spam or NOAH/Kenta do not comprise of (or accurately portray) the worldwide wrestling scene, the issue is that they weren't always like this. The very fact of this conversation is proof that wrestling does transition and I'm worried for the integrity of wrestling if that's where the path is heading. 

But, I suppose, fans were saying the same thing whenever that transition started becoming apparent despite wrestling still being _critically good_. Don't get me wrong, I loved Ibushi/Omega from last year and dig spotfests but they weren't good matches. They were merely fun. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical (that is a trait of mine) but I can't help but think that in, say, 40 years time fans will be looking back at the matches we hold dear now with vehement disdain purely because they lack an overusage of thigh slaps or BRAIN-BUSSTTAAAAHHH~! spam. By jove, I hope I'm wrong, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> *pokes head into thread*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been rewatching WM's this past week, and with just half of 28 (Taker/HHH and forward) to go, I actually considered and I didn't include Bryan/Sheamus in my top 5 worst. It deserves being a DUD yeah, but like you said, it's only 18 seconds. I mean, 18 seconds of shit, but it doesn't scar as much as the other horrible matches (well, at least to me it didn't). It's about the 6th or 7th worst IMO.

For the peep that said that considering Bryan/Sheamus means considering Chavo/Kane as well, IMO Bryan/Sheamus is worst and more saddening than the former. Chavo/Kane was setup the very night of WM 24, while Bryan/Sheamus was built ever since Sheamus won the fucking Royal Rumble. Chavo/Kane was for the ECW Title, Bryan/Sheamus was for the WHC Title. Chavo/Kane was pretty much a cool-down match, Bryan/Sheamus was the opener of WM. And Chavo/Kane actually succeeded in doing what it was supposed to - giving Kane the belt in the fastest title change in WM history. While Bryan/Sheamus failed to do that as well. For those reasons, Chavo/Kane, despite a DUD nonethless, is definitely higher than Bryan/Sheamus on my ranking.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Survivour Series 2011:

US Title: Dolph/Morrison- ***
Divas Title: Beth/Eve- ** 
Team Barret/Team Orton- ***1/4
Big Show/Henry- ***1/2
Punk/Del Rio- ***
Cena&Rock/Awesome Truth- ***3/4

Well this was a very good show, WWE really surprised me with this one. We had a good opener, the classical Survivour Series Match was very good, but it could have been a lot better if there wouldn't have been so many botches, then we had an insane bout between Show and Henry with an excellent crowd. I saw that many people have Punk/Del Rio **** rating, but the match wasn't so great for me. Del Rio was pretty boring here, working only on Punk's arm, nothing more. The main-event was great, Rock showed that he still has it. 8/10 for the show


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not often you see the Brock/Taker HIAC match rated below **** lol. Ah well. Definitely don't agree with any kind of lack of psychology or selling, in fact the whole lack of selling thing might be the most overrated discussion for any match ever. Undertaker's selling of the hand was pretty much spot on the whole way through imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree with Cal. I don't see where BORK/Taker HIAC had no selling or psychology. That's kinda like saying that the the Triangle Ladder Match and the 1st couple of TLC's had no high spots.

And since we were on the topic of ***** matches a while ago, here are another BAZILLION*****MATCHESOMGZ video I found on YouTube, only not WWE-restricted:





And as it indicates, I don't think KOK will be on this one either


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Big Z said:


> Not often you see the Brock/Taker HIAC match rated below **** lol. Ah well. Definitely don't agree with any kind of lack of psychology or selling, in fact the whole lack of selling thing might be the most overrated discussion for any match ever. Undertaker's selling of the hand was pretty much spot on the whole way through imo.


Hey, like I said, it's been a while but I'm pretty sure of the selling/logic. They started off well with Taker using the cast as an advantage (inflicting pain upon himself) but after that it went all downhill. He'd brawl with it and even hit a damn chokeslam using his supposedly injured/broken hand. One of the announcer's covered it with the usual fighting spirit malarky but even that has its limits. I'm also confused as to why a Falls Count Anywhere has ropebreaks but WWE never make sense or keep consistency in their rules.

Wrestling wasn't bad, it was good, but it just wasn't _phenomenal_ (which is what I'd associate a 4.75 match to be). Very fun feud, with some good matches and that's all you need as a fan, imo. I don't even mind bumping it to 3.5 because the more I try remember the more I do remember liking. Still, 3.25 and 3.5 ratings are still indicative of a good match (70%).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He also had some sort of painkiller injected into his hand at the start of the event, which can explain some of the "lack of selling" .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've only seen one Evolution tag match. That was the one vs Foley, Benjamin, HBK and Benoit.

What's the other? I believe there's 2 right?

Oh and Michaels/Angle Mania 21? I need to re-watch that one but I've seen it about 2 times and quite frankly, I think the match is overrated.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have a curisoity, in your opinion who executed the spear better, Goldberg, Edge or Batista?

I always loved Goldberg's spear


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Edge's running hug was GOAT but nothing beats the GORE imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Goldberg's spear was awesome, Rhyno's GORE GORE GORE was awesome too. Edge's is the worst ever. Though Bo Dallas hits a fucking terrible one, so if he keeps using it he'll surpass even Edge. Batista's was nothing special.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Out of those three definitely Goldberg

Loved Rhynos Gore more. Love Rhyno to be fair, really underrated big man, great power moveset and looked legit badass


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Gore coupled with Paul E. calling it is unmatchable for me. On a side note, Sugiura has a great spear and sometimes so does the Big Slob.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Edge had the greatest running and jumping hug of all time BY FAR. As far as Spears are concerned though, Goldberg's DEATHSENTENCE was pretty damn awesome, followed closely by Rhyno's GOAR GOAR GOAR. Batista's is decent as well. 

I also like Big Show's Spear a lot - granted it's not nearly as crisp looking as Goldberg's or the Gore, hell not even as Edge's, but kayfabe talking here, the Big Show of all people using a Spear should be enough to KO Brock Lesnar. That's 500lb running and tackling you to next Heaven. Not good looking but devastating nonetheless.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I always liked Rhyno. Was a really solid mid card guy who could have had a good IC or US title reign. He had some really fun matches with the likes of Tajiri, Benoit, Jericho (LOVE their SummerSlam match together) and others. Shame he went berserk or something during a WM party and got fired . He had some really good matches and feuds with Christian and Storm in TNA too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Gore all the way. I agree with Phil_Mc_90 about Rhyno in general. I always thought he put on solid matches and just had that nastiness about him.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'll add these for Edge:
> 
> Edge/Christian/Kurt Angle v Too Cool/Rikishi Judgment Day 2000(I don't care what you do, what anyone does, what anything ANYTHING ANYTHING. WATCH. THIS. MATCH.)
> w/Christian v Taker/Rock SD 11/00 (IDR the exact date, but it's probably the best 2-on-2 E&C tag)
> ...


Oh man, I remember LOVING the Edge/Benoit and Edge/Morrison SD matches... can't believe I forgot them to this point.  I have to re-watch the two Edge/HBK streetfights as I remember loving one of them and the other being good, but not anywhere near as good. 

A tag match with Christian against Taker and Rock? That I've gotta see. Was that when Taker/Rock won/loss the tag titles? Think I've seen the matches, but they're a real blur and don't remember what I think of them at all.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on Vengeance 2001?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on Vengeance 2001?


Undertaker/RVD is really good. Not a fan of anything else tbh. Rock/Jericho and Austin/Angle were easily the worst matches those guys had together imo, and Jericho/Austin I remember being pretty shitty.

E&C Vs Taker & Rock - Raw December 18th then rematch Smackdown December 21st, for anyone wondering when they took place .


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I asked this late last night so I think it got buried by other stuff, but does anyone have any links for Evolution vs The World tags, I can never find them when I start to look, any help would be appreciated, as I am also starting a Top 1000!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on Vengeance 2001?


Solid enough show. As Big Z mentioned though, the Undisputed title matches were pretty average. I've always had a soft spot for that show however because of the sheer magnitude of Jericho's win at the end. It felt really big.

Plus, HHH was on the poster and this was during his first quad tear. EVERYONE thought he was coming back but it turned out to be too soon. (He mentioned on one of his DVDs that they wanted him to do a run in, but I'm not sure in what context. Maybe in place of Booker T?)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I saw Edge/Orton being discussed a few pages back. They had four matches in 2004 and 3 of them were AWESOME. Vengeance, Raw rematch weeks after and 13/12. Add to that their Raw match after Backlash 07 and you got hell of a chemistry. Although their OTL match was nothing special.



Tanner1495 said:


> So I asked this late last night so I think it got buried by other stuff, but does anyone have any links for Evolution vs The World tags, I can never find them when I start to look, any help would be appreciated, as I am also starting a Top 1000!


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x287ta_evolution-vs-hbk-benoit-foley-benja_sport#.URfRGbUnguc

Here's the 8 man tag against Benjamin, Benoit, Foley & HBK.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Was Triple H penciled in to be the first Undisputed Champion then?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punter said:


> Was Triple H penciled in to be the first Undisputed Champion then?


I think Jericho was always the plan. All I know is that HHH mentioned that Vince (I think) asked him and his surgeon/ doctors whether he could do a run in at the PPV. Doctors said it was too soon. Like I said I don't know what the context would have been as he never said anything else about that story.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I saw Edge/Orton being discussed a few pages back. They had four matches in 2004 and 3 of them were AWESOME. Vengeance, Raw rematch weeks after and 13/12. Add to that their Raw match after Backlash 07 and you got hell of a chemistry. Although their OTL match was nothing special.


How those two guys could give us Vengeance 2004 and then give us the WMOTY in 2010 from Over The Limit is nuts. I don't know what went wrong with that match, but sheesh. Their chemistry was very hit or miss. When it hit though, it was pretty awesome.

So I'm slamming through The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane right now. Love me some KANE matches. I'll harp on a prior discussion the lot of us were having when it came to Kane's career and how it parallels with this compilation - consistency. The man might not have many "classics". What he does have is a constant string of good - great matches. It's quite stellar when you get down to it. Not sure if this set is going to have a bad match on it outside of the Summerslam match vs Matt Hardy. 

And to tie up both aspects of this post, Kane & Edge seemed to have some solid chemistry themselves. At least 4 singles matches in 2005 and all were pretty good. Gold Rush Tournament Finals, Vengeance, Steel Cage, & Stretcher match. Cage is probably number one for me - wildly entertaining bout. It was in that meaty part of RAW (or WWE TV in general) being great during the Post-Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression brand extension days. Underrated bunch of years imo. Forget Attitude & forget "PG" eras _(we seriously need a new term for 2008 - now b/c this stuff was PG YEARS before too)_ This is where the good stuff is.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 6/23/05 - ****3/4

What a fucking war! Absolutely loved this match, great start to the match with eddie trying to prove he's the better wrestler but not being able to do so with rey continuously mounting offense and locking in the abdominal stretch and working on eddie's bruised oblique area. Eddie's sudden transformation into this dark sinister man ready to do anything to win was amazing and he was all over mysterio after chucking him off the top turnbuckle to the outside, smashing his head into the announce table and violently tossing him back/shoulder first into the steel steps. Eddie's facial expressions were amazing and he literally mocked rey by rubbing his boot over rey's face and slapping him around the head as he continued to almost treat him like an animal. Guerrero continued to work on the back hitting powerbombs, suplex', submissions and stiff shots to the head as he started showing rey what his dark side was capable of. A resilient mysterio kept hanging in showing his pure heart and managed to hit a variation of a bulldog but a frustrated eddie quickly shut his momentum down with a hard clothesline. Into the latter part of the match eddie went for the three amigos, managing to hit two of them before rey head scissored eddie into the middle ropes! It looked like it was time for the 619 but a game eddie was playing possum and managed to dodge the 619 attempt before hitting the final suplex as he completed the 3 amigos. Hardly anyone could believe that mysterio was still in the match after taking such a beating! The fans were rallying behind rey desperately trying to get him into the match and his heart shun through after he rolled away from Guerrero's frog splash attempt! Rey once again head scissored eddie into the middle rope, ran to the opposite ropes on pure adrenaline and connection with a huge 619 before soaring over the top rope and hitting a flying leg drop! He hooked the leg up, ONE! TWO! AND THREE! It was over! Rey did it once again! Eddie once again came up short and failed to beat his once best friend. Amazing performances by both men

This match had near enough everything; great storytelling, great psychology, great pacing, great character portrayal, technical wrestling, brawling, brutality and an awesome ending! This has got to be one of the best TV matches of all time, brilliant stuff. Thoughts on this match guys?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well tbf HHH's actual return at MSG was better than had it actually been at Vengeance 01.

Top 5 years for the Big 4 PPV's:
1 - 2001
2 - 1998
3 - 2002
4 - 2005
5 - 1996


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Punter said:


> Was Triple H penciled in to be the first Undisputed Champion then?


According to his RF shoot, Angle was supposed to become Undisputed champion until just days prior to the show. Vince called him and said he's got to make Jericho the champion.

I think Hunter would have cost Austin the match at Vengeance had Austin still been heel to set-up heel Austin vs face Triple H at Mania. But after Austin insisted to become a face again Hunter was replaced with Booker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Guerrero vs Mysterio is excellent. MOTY from WWE in 2005.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> How those two guys could give us Vengeance 2004 and then give us the WMOTY in 2010 from Over The Limit is nuts. I don't know what went wrong with that match, but sheesh. Their chemistry was very hit or miss. When it hit though, it was pretty awesome.


Orton should've probably brought his wrist tapes with him. 

As good as Vengeance is, I think that match was a little too long (27 minutes!!!). Their 13/12/04 match is one I've been praising ever since I saw it the first time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton should've probably brought his wrist tapes with him.
> 
> As good as Vengeance is, I think that match was a little too long (27 minutes!!!). Their 13/12/04 match is one I've been praising ever since I saw it the first time.


I thought they did a nice job at working the lengthy match up. A great job actually. I have no gripes with a long match if it's done properly. Orton's headlock phases were good to lead in for the rapid sequences in-between the grappling - which was legit. Such a different type of match worked than I think everyone was expecting.

I'd have to go out and find the 2 RAW matches to know how they hold up. I know the one following Backlash '07 does. Thanks to Edge's DVD for that gem. (Y)


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Punter said:


> Was Triple H penciled in to be the first Undisputed Champion then?


I think the original plan was as followed, Jericho was always supposed to win via interference from Triple H and not Booker T. Austin and Triple H would start up an angle leading to a match at WM 18 since they couldn't put together Austin/Hogan and went with Rock/Hogan instead. I would assume the Austin/Triple H match would be for the title, Triple H still wins the Rumble and Austin wins the title at either the Rumble or No Way Out. I have no idea what Jericho would've done come Mania time though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> How those two guys could give us Vengeance 2004 and then give us the WMOTY in 2010 from Over The Limit is nuts. I don't know what went wrong with that match, but sheesh. Their chemistry was very hit or miss. When it hit though, it was pretty awesome.
> 
> So I'm slamming through The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane right now. Love me some KANE matches. I'll harp on a prior discussion the lot of us were having when it came to Kane's career and how it parallels with this compilation - consistency. The man might not have many "classics". What he does have is a constant string of good - great matches. It's quite stellar when you get down to it. Not sure if this set is going to have a bad match on it outside of the Summerslam match vs Matt Hardy.
> 
> And to tie up both aspects of this post, Kane & Edge seemed to have some solid chemistry themselves. At least 4 singles matches in 2005 and all were pretty good. Gold Rush Tournament Finals, Vengeance, Steel Cage, & Stretcher match. Cage is probably number one for me - wildly entertaining bout. It was in that meaty part of RAW (or WWE TV in general) being great during the Post-Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression brand extension days. Underrated bunch of years imo. Forget Attitude & forget "PG" eras _(we seriously need a new term for 2008 - now b/c this stuff was PG YEARS before too)_ This is where the good stuff is.


KANE~! I keep meaning to pick his set up, mainly for that Undertaker SD 08 match lol. Agree that he has been hugely consistent for all this time, while never having many classics or anything. I like the Edge matches too, haven't seen any in ages aside from the Vengeance match though, which I thought was really good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I thought they did a nice job at working the lengthy match up. A great job actually. I have no gripes with a long match if it's done properly. Orton's headlock phases were good to lead in for the rapid sequences in-between the grappling - which was legit. Such a different type of match worked than I think everyone was expecting.
> 
> I'd have to go out and find the 2 RAW matches to know how they hold up. I know the one following Backlash '07 does. Thanks to Edge's DVD for that gem. (Y)


I know what you mean, they definitely made it work despite the length but usually, 20 minutes is fine for a midcard match.

Here's the 13/12 match I've been pimping: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7l904_edge-vs-randy-orton_sport#.URfXt7Unguc

I can't find their IC title rematch (19/7/04) anywhere but on WWE.com. For me, it's blocked but I guess in America you can see the whole thing fine:
http://www.wwe.com/videos/raw-edge-vs-randy-orton-7192004-26008823 (not sure if it's the whole thing, I could swear it was longer than 15 minutes)

Their other Raw match is May 10 and IIRC, Orton wins after Flair distracts Edge.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> KANE~! I keep meaning to pick his set up, mainly for that Undertaker SD 08 match lol. Agree that he has been hugely consistent for all this time, while never having many classics or anything. I like the Edge matches too, haven't seen any in ages aside from the Vengeance match though, which I thought was really good.


I marked so hard last night when I saw the Undertaker match make the set. Same with Belfast Brawl vs Finlay.

Steel Cage match might have _(no pun intended)_ edged out over Vengeance in my personal enjoyment list. Kane's bladejob is pretty sick, they incorporate some fun moments and the finish is logical & fitting - That damn briefcase. Good match. Vengeance has Kane picking up the W though in one of my favorite moments, so any way you slice it, I guess it's all good.

Looks a little bit like this:

Gold Rush Finals ~ ***1/4 _(could go up. Think the leg work is pretty well done/sold by Kane)_
Vengeance ~ ***1/4
Steel Cage ~ ***1/4
Stretcher ~ **1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So just bought the Kane DVD. Brand new on ebay for £4. I'm happy.

Edit: I swear I've spent about £15 in the last week buying wrestling DVD's because of you Cody. Cunt.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I know what you mean, they definitely made it work despite the length but usually, 20 minutes is fine for a midcard match.
> 
> Here's the 13/12 match I've been pimping: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7l904_edge-vs-randy-orton_sport#.URfXt7Unguc
> 
> ...


Awesome. Got the IC Championship rematch going right now. (Y)

This reminds me, I still need to watch Edge vs Angle from Backlash 2002. Guess this is going to be an all Edge morning instead of an all Kane morning.



Big Z said:


> So just bought the Kane DVD. Brand new on ebay for £4. I'm happy.


KANE

EDIT ~ :lol


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Orton/Edge would've made for a geat WrestleMania main-event given their history. Shame it never happened.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Awesome. Got the IC Championship rematch going right now. (Y)
> 
> This reminds me, I still need to watch Edge vs Angle from Backlash 2002. Guess this is going to be an all Edge morning instead of an all Kane morning.


Enjoy it.

And on the Edge/Kane topic, other than their Vengeance and Cage match, I didn't really care about the rest. My disappointment for the Gold Rush match is due to how promising it was with Benoit beating HHH. The finals should've been Benoit vs HBK with either men, preferably BENOIT, winning and proceeding to have a great TV match with Batista. But instead, they used the tournament just to turn Lita heel. DISAPPOINTING!

Speaking of KANE/Taker, I've got it on next (the 08 match) once I'm done with this Smackdown 06 episode.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I loved the tournament. It had competitive matches and helped continue to elevate Edge to the main event picture. Which it was intended for. Kane getting a nice rub out of it over the others was cool. Mostly b/c it was unexpected. At least Benoit beat HHH on RAW. I'll take it.

Undertaker vs Kane owns. Interesting 9 minute match they had. One of the matches actually worth seeing from Smackdown in 2008.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Punter said:


> Orton/Edge would've made for a geat WrestleMania main-event given their history. Shame it never happened.


That's another one of those re-booking a WrestleMania decisions I will always think about. They should have had a singles match at WrestleMania 23 instead of just being added star power in the MITB Ladder Match. It would have greatly strengthened the rest of the card and we really didn't need Kane/Khali whose only purpose was to recreate the Hogan/Andre slam 20 years later. I also wouldn't have put Melina and Ashley in a one-on-one match. It should have been a triple threat with Mickie that would lead to the singles match they had at Backlash later that month.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x287ta_evolution-vs-hbk-benoit-foley-benja_sport#.URfRGbUnguc
> 
> Here's the 8 man tag against Benjamin, Benoit, Foley & HBK.


:mark: Thank you so much! Any other suggestions for my Top 1000 would be appreciated too, I would like to thank *The Rawk* for making me want to do this, mine will be throughout all promotions as well as it will be more of my favorites then the best, but it should be fun to do!


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Clique said:


> That's another one of those re-booking a WrestleMania decisions I will always think about. They should have had a singles match at WrestleMania 23 instead of just being added star power in the MITB Ladder Match. It would have greatly strengthened the rest of the card and we really didn't need Kane/Khali whose only purpose was to recreate the Hogan/Andre slam 20 years later. I also wouldn't have put Melina and Ashley in a one-on-one match. It should have been a triple threat with Mickie that would lead to the singles match they had at Backlash later that month.


I think that was the original plan, but Orton did something?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> I think that was the original plan, but Orton did something?


Are you thinking of him thrashing his hotel? That happened a week before Backlash. He was sent home after that incident and his scheduled match with Edge didn't happen so HBK/Cena went for 1 hour. I think that's the story.

I guess one-on-one at WM didn't happen because WWE seems to have a problem with doing heel vs heel matches at PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Monday Night RAW 7/19/04​*
*WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Edge(c) vs Randy Orton ~ ***3/4​
Pretty great match. Has quite a bit of neat intricacies in the early part. Edge's attempt to pick apart Orton's arm & better yet, Orton's transition into getting the momentum onto his side by driving Edge not off the ropes, but into the ropes was really slick. Barricade spot was good. Edge falling onto his head was not. That had to hurt. I liked how when it came back from the commercial break the match was Orton focusing the assault on Edge's head/neck area. A sustained period of that plays out, which was solid, then it leads into the HOT finishing stretch much like Vengeance had. Toss in a non-obnoxious ref bump, some good drama, and an interesting finish and you're left with one swell Intercontinental Championship match. Only flaw I had _(and reason I didn't go to 4 stars with it)_ was Edge's injured neck never came into play later on. It made the solid work by Orton feel like nothing but filler till they got to the final portion of the match. Wished it would have lent itself into the story more. So, not to end this on a negative, but a positive - long story short - this rocked. Very fitting rematch from their classic on PPV.

btw C2D, this clocked in at around the 13 minute mark without a commercial break included.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Moar contraversy:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> btw C2D, this clocked in at around the 13 minute mark without a commercial break included.


I stand corrected. Got it mixed up with their Vengeance match and remember it being kind of long, so that's where the confusion came from. Spot on review btw. Now it's time for the December match I guess?

On my SD experience: :lmao @ Regal dressing as a woman. Something entertaining after a boring lengthy Booker/Hardy match for the KOTR tournament.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

greendayedgehead said:


> I think that was the original plan, but Orton did something?


I think they didn't want to put Edge in a singles match because Edge got injured in that MITB Qualifying Match with RVD legit kicking him in the jaw. I love the match Edge & Orton had the night after Backlash. It was heel vs. heel but Orton kind of became the face in the match before it was all said and done, especially after that bump he took off the ring apron into the announce table. That match was really all about heel match psychology and how they put it together at the pace they set made it something to behold.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I stand corrected. Got it mixed up with their Vengeance match and remember it being kind of long, so that's where the confusion came from. Spot on review btw. Now it's time for the December match I guess?
> 
> On my SD experience: :lmao @ Regal dressing as a woman. Something entertaining after a boring lengthy Booker/Hardy match for the KOTR tournament.


Well, it was about 16 or so give or take with the commercial in tact. Perhaps that got int the way too. Yeah, I was thinking of working my way onto it right now actually. I can hold off on Kane vs Umaga from 9/16/06 for one more match.

Didn't Regal do that b/c of something with Burchill? If I'm way off, well, I won't be surprised. Most segments around that time I only saw once back when it aired.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck it, I'll do an ECW 2009 Project instead of just a Christian ECW 2009 project!

Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 06/01/2009

Well, this is an awesome way to start things off! First ECW show of 09, first match too! Knew they had one in Feb and then NWO, but ANOTHER TV match? Sweeeet. Main event is Hardy Vs Henry too :mark:.

:lmao we see a Jeff Hardy fan (little kid, dressed like him) dancing like Hardy does when he comes out to the ring... to Finlay's babyface music. LOL. For some reason Finlay has an inflatable hammer with him that he throws into the crowd. Ok.

They go to the mat in the early going, as Swagger is the "wrestler" and Finlay can go to the mat with pretty much anyone anyway. Finlay despite being face still tries to grab the nose and hair of Swagger to break holds, and when he gets the chance on offence he has no problem hitting a stiff elbow and shit just for the hell of it. Hornswoggle gets smashed face first into the barricade. I smiled .

Swagger works over the arm of Finlay, and well it's a little dull tbh. He tends to sit in the hold rather than work it for the most part. Every now and then he'll crank on it but not nearly enough for my liking. At least Swagger keeps going to the arm any time Finlay attempts a comeback and Finlay sells it really well, so even if some of the arm work is a little boring, they still work it into the match really well so it's not a waste of time or anything.

Gutwrench Powerbomb and the #1 contender for the ECW title picks up another win. Good stuff. Could have been better, but even the slightly dull arm work doesn't bring it down too much thanks to everything else around it.

Rating: ***

Matt Hardy Vs Mark Henry - ECW 06/01/2009

How awesome is Henry's theme? SUMBODY GUNNA GET THEY ASS KICKED. SUMBODY GUNNA GET THEY WIG SPLIT. BEAT EM UP BEAT EM UP BREAK HIS NECK BREAK HIS NECK.

Henry dominates from the start, but on the outside Hardy is able to send Henry knees first into the steel steps, then take advantage in the ring with a little bit of leg work before Henry powers his way back in control. I seem to recall leg work being a big part of their great PPV match the previous year, right? I should check that out at some point, been ages since I saw it.

Henry sells the great great while on offence, even though Hardy hadn't done anything to it for a while. No short term selling from the WWE's Strongest Man (this was 2008... so WSM will have been... Mariusz Pudzianowski, with Big Z the Arnold Strongman winner for like the billionth time in a row. Henry would have NEVER won the 2002 competition had Big Z and any other credible strongmen been involved. What was I talking about?)

Henry is fine on offence, nothing overly special as he has a habit of sitting in a nerve grip hold, but he dishes out some goodness any time he's cutting Matt Hardy off. And he's STILL selling the leg which is awesome, and Matt every now and then sees a chance to hit it even if it doesn't get him back on top.

Nice little finishing stretch, and Henry loses clean to a Twist of Fate! Well, Matt IS the champion afterall! Good match, plenty to like.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Well, it was about 16 or so give or take with the commercial in tact. Perhaps that got int the way too. Yeah, I was thinking of working my way onto it right now actually. I can hold off on Kane vs Umaga from 9/16/06 for one more match.
> 
> Didn't Regal do that b/c of something with Burchill? If I'm way off, well, I won't be surprised. Most segments around that time I only saw once back when it aired.


Looking forward to reading your thoughts on that match. (Y)

And yes, you're absolutely right about Regal/Burchill. I have a hard time understanding why WWE love embarrassing Regal so damn often. :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Edge/Orton at WM23 would have been great, plus it would have allowed WWE to keep Edge's Wrestlemania streak going for another year until he faced Undertaker at Wrestlemania 24.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Random thoughts as I'm watching the first disc of The Rock's BD set.

My number one guilty pleasure match is the triple threat cage match from Breakdown 1998. If I'm not mistaken at this time Mankind was somewhat of a tweener, Shamrock was a face (?) and Rock was technically still a heel. But seeing as though the show was in Canada, Shamrock is booed throughout, Mankind is cheered and booed, and The Rock comes out to hero worship. Amazing ovation and the adulation just grows throughout. Especially when Shamrock and Mankind team up against The Rock. 

From then on, its all The Rock's show. Huge chants, and one of the craziest crowd reactions/ovations I've ever seen when he does the double People's Elbow. Honestly, the entire arena gets up and the hard camera is shaking like mad and its just mental. I love how the crowd is cheering masssively while Rock is running the ropes and then everyone kinda goes quiet to see how he'll drop the elbow on both of them. Then they explode once he does it. Mental stuff.

Rock kinda takes the cheap victory in the end but gets no heat for it. Mankind cracks Shamrock with a chair and goes to climb the cage. Rock just crawls over and pins Shamrock for the victory.

Anyways, I could ramble on and on but I won't. Ridiculously fun match that I could watch over and over.

Also, I always forget how much of a face reaction Rock gets at Backlash '99. He gets a major face pop for his entrance and gets cheered loads when he's on offence against Austin. No wonder he turned face the next night. Obviously, his pop wasn't as big as Austin who comes out and greeted as if he's the good Lord himself. Crazy times.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Fuck it, I'll do an ECW 2009 Project instead of just a Christian ECW 2009 project!
> 
> Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 06/01/2009
> 
> ...







:agree:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Looking forward to reading your thoughts on that match. (Y)
> 
> And yes, you're absolutely right about Regal/Burchill. I have a hard time understanding why WWE love embarrassing Regal so damn often. :lol


Sweet. My use of knowing all the random facts about wrestling hold up. As for Regal...idk. Maybe b/c he's open to the goofy shenanigans? I think that's part of it. Funny to how they make him look like a goof in some moments, but it never feels as if it's embarrassing. Only the "all in good fun" sort of context. Regal's rap on R-Truth from Superstars in 2010 was brilliant, for example.

@ Cal - :mark: ECW 2009 OWNS. I loved the Swagger vs Finlay match. ***1/2 for me. The 2/3 match I mentioned is even better, imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I miss Pirate Burchill . Awesome gimmick and he actually made it work. Facing Regal and winning, forcing Regal to dress as a "wench" was awesome :lmao. I truly believe Regal loves doing that sort of thing. He's got a very classic English sense of humour and he loves Panto and shit like that so making a complete arse of himself is a sort of tradition for him lol.

Watching Swagger/Hardy ECW title match :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Matt Hardy Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - ECW 13/01/2009

I'm a fan of their RR match, hoping this is at least as good. Don't see why it wouldn't be!

Real BIG MATCH feel to this one which I fucking love. Crowd are awesome, Swagger and Hardy both look confident and focused during the introductions which adds to it too, and yeah, this is really good. Swagger looks great from the get go just charging at Matt and taking the match straight to the mat where he's strongest, and unlike last week with Finlay, Hardy can't hang with him there. Hardy fires back though (and the crowd go nuts), and then Swagger clotheslines him off the apron in a real sweet cut off spot.

Swagger seems to have improved immensely since just LAST WEEK. Being there with Finlay no doubt helped a ton, and I wouldn't be surprised if Finlay went over shit afterwards to give him pointers. Swagger is more vicious here, which really puts over how much he wants the title, and how different a title match is compared to a non title match. He's going the extra mile here.

Hardy needs to be pimped too, because he's a great babyface and can take one hell of a beating. Great selling of the arm, something Swagger would really perfect over just the next few weeks. I definitely get why people were throwing Angle's name at him early on, as he really came in as a rookie, but with a great amateur record, and then every week you can literally see him improving, which is exactly like Angle. How he was in Jan of 2000 was completely different by Dec 2000. Swagger was doing the exact same until they fucked him up.

Awesome spot with Hardy escaping a superplex attempt into a sunset flip powerbomb, but Swagger tries to hold on to the turnbuckle pad. Hardy fights for it and hits the move, but the pad comes off, leaving the turnbuckle exposed. And of course, it comes into play for the finish. Love when little things like that pay off. Matt goes face first into it, then a Gutwrench Powerbomb later we have a NEW ECW Champion!

So yeah, this is great. GREAT. Swagger is impressive as hell. Hardy is awesome too. Great finishing stretch, and I do love the turnbuckle coming into play. Current ECW MOTY, but I already know its gonna be knocked down in a little over a month lol.

Rating: ****


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Top 10 Smackdown TV matches of all time in your opinion guys? Would also like to hear your opinions on the top 10 ECW (wwe one) matches of all time, PPV and tv matches included.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Bought 4 PPV's from Silvervision today. Got both Edge DVD's (A Decade of Decadence, You Think You Know Me The Story of Edge) which I was meaning to get for a while, CM Punk's best in the world DVD which I've wanted to get since I saw the documentary, and WrestleMania 24 because it gets a lot of praise on here. And because I wanted to own HBK/Flair.

£30 for the lot.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Bought 4 PPV's from Silvervision today. Got both Edge DVD's (A Decade of Decadence, You Think You Know Me The Story of Edge) which I was meaning to get for a while, CM Punk's best in the world DVD which I've wanted to get since I saw the documentary, and WrestleMania 24 because it gets a lot of praise on here. And because I wanted to own HBK/Flair.
> 
> £30 for the lot.


Good choices there. Both Edge DVDs are really great. It helps having both since in Decade of Decadence Edge himself introduces the matches but he's in character, so it's kinda strange. But the other DVD balances this well and his story of his rise to the top is really interesting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*New Years Revolution 2005
World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber
(Vacant Title)
Edge vs. Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit*

_One of my favourite matches ever and the best Chamber match ever imo. The Evolution storyline heading in was just so compelling and even though I've watched it a million times, I still get suckered into the big moments. Trips in the sharpshooter/crossface combo while everybody is waiting for Batista to come in is just pure drama. What an awesome moment that still has me on the edge of my seat when I see it. Batista coming in and straight up wrecking everything around him only to lead to the big face to face between he and HHH is so well done. JR's commentary makes it even better. DO YOU WANNA BE WORLD CHAMPION? DO YOU WANNA BE THE MAN! Awesome, awesome, awesome. But everything up until Batista's entry is just as good. Jericho and Benoit in the beginning, Trips coming in and bumping like a crazy man all over the steel, Edge then Orton. It's just an enthralling match from start to finish. My only complaint is that the ending could have been sped up a little. I feel the Batista/HHH beat down on Orton went a little too long. Shave 2 minutes or so off and this is a perfect match. _

*****3/4 and GOAT Elimination Chamber Match*

PS - Anybody who didn't enjoy Vince vs. God in 2006 is a bad person. Vince and Shane going to the church is one of the funniest segments WWE has ever produced imo. :lmao :lmao :lmao Vinnie Mac. Fucking GOAT. 

:vince3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Monday Night RAW 12/13/04​*
Edge vs Randy Orton ~ ****​
Holy zombie jesus what a match. First I'll have to comment on how much I got a kick from the heel & face dynamic changing from the last RAW match. That alone gave the match a new wrinkle. Right from the git-go these guys are out of the blocks. Going fast. Totally different start compared to their previous '04 bouts. Counters aplenty. Orton takes the early lead here until one minor mistake was made, thanks to the cagey Edge, & the momentum was shifted in a flash. Yet again some more solid ground work in this bout. Neither man would be classified as "ring generals" in my books, but they're good. And capable of great matches. So they make it work what seems to be 9 times out of 10 when they duke it out. I LOVE how this match is nothing like their previous. Their last RAW encounter started off slower with Edge & Orton trying to outwit each other in how they were going to lead the match. In this one, as I stated, it starts off hot. But, as the progressive of the match rolls along, the more competitive this becomes. Very gritty. Orton fighting from his knees to come back, swinging from the heels. It's fabulous. He's getting the crowd emotionally involved here and it's pretty good. Another key element I dug was how the finishing stretch of this was paced more methodically and didn't try to rely on a blitzkrieg of moves on which the last one did. I seem as if I can't stress enough how much fun it is to see these guys work a completely different type of match compared to where they were once at. Favorite spot of the match came when Orton attempts an RKO, Edge counters into a backslide and puts his feet on the ropes for only a nearfall. Aka the finish of their Vengeance rematch back in July. CALLBACKS~! It made watching these matches in order all the more special. A moment like that would have been nothing but a simple nearfall. Catching the storytelling like that is wonderful. Following the callback spot, the match rages on with a few more nearfalls, some more counters and tons of excitement. I was going nuts for the RKO - counter - back into the RKO spot for the finish. *I loved this match*. If it wasn't for Vengeance being so excellent I'd have to say this was my favorite match between the two. Why isn't this on a DVD set yet?!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HWRP said:


> Top 10 Smackdown TV matches of all time in your opinion guys? Would also like to hear your opinions on the top 10 ECW (wwe one) matches of all time, PPV and tv matches included.


Top 10 SD:

1 - Austin vs Benoit
2 - Angle vs Lesnar Iron Man
3 - Benoangle vs Edge & Rey 2 out of 3 Falls
4 - Eddie vs Rey May 05
5 - Rey vs Morrison
6 - Angle vs Taker 03
7 - TLC III
8 - Lesnar vs Benoit
9 - Angle vs Taker 06
10 - Edge vs Eddie No DQ

Top 10 ECW:

1 - Cena vs RVD ONS 06
2 - 6-Person Tag ONS 06
3 - Christian vs Swagger BL 09
4 - Christian vs Big Zeke Last ECW ever (underloved imo)
5 - Punk vs Morrison Last Chance
6 - Christian vs Swagger Feb 09
7 - Show vs Flair June 06
8 - Tanaka vs Awesome ONS 05
9 - RVD vs Hardcore Holly
10 - Matt H vs Swagger RR rematch


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mark Henry Vs Finlay Vs The Miz Vs John Morrison - ECW 19/01/2009

Well half of this match is AWESOME :mark:. Would have preferred a singles match between Finlay and Henry instead though. Jiz and Moronson can fuck off.

On man, only 6 minutes for it? Bah.

Jiz and Moronson try to convince Finlay to join them to take on Henry... so Finlay punches both of them in the fucking face and attacks Henry himself. So the tag champs go after Finlay while Henry just stands around waiting for his moment and he fucking destroys the lot of them the moment he sees his chance.

Henry is just a monster here. Tag champs try to double team him... and it works... for about 30 seconds then he just swats them like flies. Sheleighly from Finlay to Henry's knees, because this is apparently No DQ lol. That's a good credible way at least to take Henry out of the match for a little while so Finlay can play FIP while the tag champs beat him down. :lmao at the commentators basically taking the piss out of The Miz by wondering what it would be like if he won a major title and main evented WM :lmao. If only they knew...

Mark doesn't like that he got attacked with the sheleighly, so when he gets back up he just walks out. Finlay gets back in control, then Moronson pins his own partner after Finlay did all the work.

Good match, even if it was 6 minutes. Henry was a beast, Finlay was good, and the tag champs didn't do anything awful (aside from the knee to the face from Moronson to Finlay at the end). Henry should have come back from the sheleighly attack and mauled everyone for the win though, would have been better.

Rating: **3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Top 10 ECW:
> 
> 1 - Cena vs RVD ONS 06
> 2 - 6-Person Tag ONS 06
> ...


:argh:

Cena vs RVD kind of sucks, so I'm very surprised by this.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *New Years Revolution 2005
> World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber
> (Vacant Title)
> Edge vs. Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit*
> ...


GOAT Elimination Chamber? DAMN RIGHT!

And fuck the McMahon/HBK & God feud. I can't stress how boring that shit is. 



HayleySabin said:


> *Monday Night RAW 12/13/04​*
> Edge vs Randy Orton ~ ****​


Glad you enjoyed it. It's one hell of a gem and it's funny that despite being the heel in their previous matches that year, Orton has always gotten cheered over Edge.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Cool list ATF, I'll give the matches I haven't seen before a watch. Thanks!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Crowds were weird for the July Edge vs Orton matches. On parts is seemed like Orton was WAY more over, then out of nowhere the crowd would mark for Edge too. Damn fickle fans. THEY CHEERED FOR ORTON BUT WHEN THE MATCH WAS OVER THEY SANG "NAH-NAH _(THE GOODBYE SONG)_" TO HIM? WHAT? Even King was perplexed by it back at Vengeance. _"Listen, now they're happy Edge won."_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top ECW matches off the top of my head:

Christian Vs Swagger 24/02/2009
Edge/Foley/Lita (LITA~!) Vs Funk/Dreamer/Bullah ONS 06
Christian Vs Regal 11/11/2009 (or 10/11, it was November anyway. I was there live. :mark
Christian/Kane (ha, Christian Kane. Get it?) Vs Regal/Zeke just before the 2010 RR
Christian Vs Swagger Backlash
Hardy Vs Swagger 13/01/2009
Show Vs Flair 2006
Show Vs Undertaker 2006

Then stuff like MNM/Hardy Boys D2D, RVD/Holly, Christian/Jericho and a bunch of other matches need to be rewatched before I can come up with a better list.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Rhyno Vs Raven - Backlash 29/4/01 - ***1/2

Some tremendous spots including the Gore from the steel steps, the Gore to the shopping cart and some really sick chair shots.

Excellent hardcore match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> GOAT Elimination Chamber? DAMN RIGHT!
> 
> And fuck the McMahon/HBK & God feud. I can't stress how boring that shit is.


Backlash 2006. Shane and Vince vs. HBK and God. Vince dancing to God's entrance music. COME ON GOD, GET JIGGY WITH IT! JR: McMahon wants God to get jiggy with it. :lmao :lmao :lmao Gets me every time.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

What should I download peeps?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Crowds were weird for the July Edge vs Orton matches. On parts is seemed like Orton was WAY more over, then out of nowhere the crowd would mark for Edge too. Damn fickle fans. THEY CHEERED FOR ORTON BUT WHEN THE MATCH WAS OVER THEY SANG "NAH-NAH _(THE GOODBYE SONG)_" TO HIM? WHAT? Even King was perplexed by it back at Vengeance. _"Listen, now they're happy Edge won."_


Orton did his best to turn them against him, though. Didn't he yell "I DON'T NEED YOUR HELP" or something after they started chanting "Let's go Orton"? lol, and people say he was never over until 2007.

The fans in 2004 were kinda weird. It was the same thing at SummerSlam. Didn't they boo when Cena asked them backstage if Orton would beat Benoit for the title? Then when the RKO happened, they cheered. (that is completely excluding bizzaro land during Taker/JBL's match)

Top 10 SD matches (no specific order save for #1):
Austin/Benoit - 01
TLC III - 01
Lesnar/Benoit - 03
Angle/Taker - 06
Benoit/Orton - 06 (NHB)
Angle/Taker - 03
Eddie/Rey - 05
Cena/Taker - 04
Batista/Taker - 07 (CAGE)
Angle/Lesnar - 03 (IRONMAN)

Might be forgetting some matches, though.



Starbuck said:


> Backlash 2006. Shane and Vince vs. HBK and God. Vince dancing to God's entrance music. COME ON GOD, GET JIGGY WITH IT! JR: McMahon wants God to get jiggy with it. :lmao :lmao :lmao Gets me every time.


Ha, that one got me too. I also give credit to the "so bad it's good" segment weeks before when Vince tries to attack HBK in the ring but a pyro goes off and then the stage is set on fire. ("God's" work, lol)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Backlash 2006. Shane and Vince vs. HBK and God. Vince dancing to God's entrance music. COME ON GOD, GET JIGGY WITH IT! JR: McMahon wants God to get jiggy with it. :lmao :lmao :lmao Gets me every time.


I literally quote Vince's lines from the pre-match promo daily. No joke. 

"what? He snuck up behind me, you see that?" 

"You know what, God? BRING ITTTT."

:lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK & God Vs Vince & Shane is an awesome match :mark:.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I decided to have a reasonable list of 1000, I need around 1750 "nominees" so with my WWE portion, can anyone recommend me some fun and/or good matches on TV from 2011/2012, I want to make sure I didn't miss out on anything too big, so all help would be appreciated!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Anything else I shoold dounload from fcw? I have Ambrose s matches already. Give me suggestions for packs to download


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> What should I download peeps?


December to Dismember :evil:

Seriously, I'd recommend the Smackdown 10th Anniversary dvd if you haven't watched it yet. No Benoit matches for obvious reasons, but everything in there makes up for that.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

All of this Edge/Orton talk has made me wonder if anyone has ever done a Raw 2004 project before? I remember that year being pretty solid in terms of in ring work on the Raw side.

After my Smackdown project is finished (at the rate I'm going, I should be done by Wrestlemania), I was wondering what my next project should be? Here is what I was considering:

*Raw 2004 or 2005
*Smackdown 2002, 2005, 2008, or 2009
*Something else from a different promotion. Perhaps something WCW related?


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

VINCE/SHANE vs. GOD/HBK - GOAT FEUD :lmao









Also the one where Vince and Shane go to the chuch :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> So I decided to have a reasonable list of 1000, I need around 1750 "nominees" so with my WWE portion, can anyone recommend me some fun and/or good matches on TV from 2011/2012, I want to make sure I didn't miss out on anything too big, so all help would be appreciated!


The Orton/Christian and Punk/Bryan matches, as well as Punk/Ziggler Nov 11, Cena/Rey, Punk/ADR/Rey, Bryan/Henry Cage, Punk/Henry trilogy, Sheamus/Jericho from July and the 6-Man Tag with Usos & Barreta vs Kidd, Slater & Gabriel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOON The Legend said:


> All of this Edge/Orton talk has made me wonder if anyone has ever done a Raw 2004 project before? I remember that year being pretty solid in terms of in ring work on the Raw side.


A couple of years ago when a bunch of us did a top 100 WWF/E poll we watched a ton of Raw 04, and I believe MIKE THE TEXAN did a sort of Raw 04 project which pretty much helped the rest of us know what to watch. COME BACK TO US MIKE.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

YES for all this McMahon's vs. God/HBK marking. GOAT feud. 

I need to watch them going to church again. When Vince does the HHH water spit = :lmao :lmao :lmao. Then when he gives his speech, GOD STRIKETH ME DOWN IF IM WRONG!! Shane steps away from him. Just brilliant.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

ATF said:


> Top 10 SD:
> 
> 1 - Austin vs Benoit
> 2 - Angle vs Lesnar Iron Man
> ...


Quality list. I personally would try to find some way to fit Finlay/Benoit May & Nov 06, Benoit/Orton Jan 06 (US Title and/or NHB), and Edge/Benoit June 07 in there.

BENOIT


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tanner1495 said:


> So I decided to have a reasonable list of 1000, I need around 1750 "nominees" so with my WWE portion, can anyone recommend me some fun and/or good matches on TV from 2011/2012, I want to make sure I didn't miss out on anything too big, so all help would be appreciated!


Some FCDub and Superstars to keep you ticking over for a bit

All five Rollins vs. Ambrose matches from FCW
Both Ambrose vs. Regal matches from FCW
Seth Rollins vs. Kassius Ohno - FCW 4/29/12
Kassius Ohno vs. Antonio Cesaro - FCW 5/13/12
Chris Masters vs. Drew McIntyre Superstars 5/12/11
Christian vs. Drew McIntyre Superstars 5/31/12
Trent Barreta and The Usos vs. Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel and Heath Slater - Superstars 6/30/11


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For all the talk on the MCMAHONISM angle:






:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> A couple of years ago when a bunch of us did a top 100 WWF/E poll we watched a ton of Raw 04, and I believe MIKE THE TEXAN did a sort of Raw 04 project which pretty much helped the rest of us know what to watch. COME BACK TO US MIKE.


VIVA

And Vince's antics were probably my favorite non-Punk, Undertaker, Finlay/Regal/Benoit, or Big Show related moment of 2006. So that's good company.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> All of this Edge/Orton talk has made me wonder if anyone has ever done a Raw 2004 project before? I remember that year being pretty solid in terms of in ring work on the Raw side.


I did go through that year a few months ago but didn't really do a "ring work project" and it was more of experiencing the shows like they are happening since I missed the greatest stuff in wrestling history. I'm planning to watch the whole year with Smackdown removed from the equation (it slowed things down a lot) sometimes later.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Some FCDub and Superstars to keep you ticking over for a bit
> 
> All five Rollins vs. Ambrose matches from FCW
> Both Ambrose vs. Regal matches from FCW
> ...


Thanks foe the list. I've got the first two.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vince is one of my favourite characters ever. Yeah, I'm a Vince mark lol. The guy cracks me the hell up. 






GOAT promo.

His matches are usually more than worth watching too. Just look at that match he had with Punk just last year at 67 years old. Place was going nuts. Crazy bastard.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Good choices there. Both Edge DVDs are really great. It helps having both since in Decade of Decadence Edge himself introduces the matches but he's in character, so it's kinda strange. But the other DVD balances this well and his story of his rise to the top is really interesting.


Thanks. I've heard good things about both DVD's. Looking forward to getting The Story of Edge DVD especially for the documentary on him. Been meaning to get these ever since Edge retired, should enjoy these more than most considering the fact that Edge is my second favorite wrestler of all time. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LIFE SUUUCKS. AND THEN YOU DIIIIIE. Awesome promo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My favorite Vince is during his feud with Hulk Hogan in 03. He was hilarious there and some of his trolling was top level.

Otherwise, I don't really care for him outside of the Attitude Era. SPECIALLY not during his HBK feud although it may get better once this God stuff is over and DX is reformed. I can only hope!


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Punter said:


>


Somebody Call My Mama remix?!


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Ernest Miller should murder Vince.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vince and his delivery. Gets me every time.

Vince & Shane have a stronger catalog of matches than most of the wrestlers to ever be employed by WWF/WWE.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Making a checklist of WWE DVD's/Blu-Rays I need to get, thoughts on Mr. Perfect's DVD? I have most of the matches on DVD already but is the doc a must see?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Making a checklist of WWE DVD's/Blu-Rays I need to get, thoughts on Mr. Perfect's DVD? I have most of the matches on DVD already but is the doc a must see?


Doc isn't too long and not that impressive tbh. If you already own most of the matches, just download the doc/watch it online.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The one hour match Hennig had with Bockwinkel in AWA is worth the DVD purchase alone for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finlay Vs Paul Burchill - ECW 27/01/2009

FINALLY, a worthwhile Burchill match. On paper, anyway. He's been wrestling jobbers and The Boogeyman all year so far.

TERRY FUNK NAME DROPPED.

Wonder how the incest angle would have gone down had they pulled the trigger on it with Paul and Katie Lea lol.

Burchill looks good, nice aggressive offence, and he goes to a bit of effort to work a sleeper rather than sit in it, but the Hornswoggle distraction allows Finlay to come back and get the win. Short match but solid for the time it got.

Rating: **

Mark Henry Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 27/01/2009

Well well, a Dreamer match I actually want to watch. A rare thing indeed. KILL HIM, MARK!

Dreamer is all "I LOVE ECW AND I HAS HEART" early on, attacking Henry straight on but getting absolutely nowhere lol. Loved Henry countering a roll up attempt by grabbing the arm and sitting on it. Strange to see Henry work a body part, he usually just powers a guy down then applies a submission hold, but here he does some decent arm work.

Typical Henry style match, with him using his power to control, then his opponent makes some comebacks, and he cuts them off until the finish. Sound basic on paper, but Henry does it really well, and Dreamer can at least bump around well for someone as FAT as him. Henry crushes him still. Fun.

Rating: **1/2


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

What are peoples thoughts on the CM Punk V Mark Henry No DQ match in England?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was curious to see what I gave Swagger vs Hardy from 1/13 and I didn't like it quite as much as you did...

**1/2

:lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> What are peoples thoughts on the CM Punk V Mark Henry No DQ match in England?


Great match, just behind their first match 2 weeks before. I was gonna watch it a couple of days ago, got distracted. Fuck it, I'll watch it now. Got the DVD on my desk still...

EDIT: When did you watch it last Cody? Watch it again. Now.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Great match. Loved it. HENRY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> EDIT: When did you watch it last Cody? Watch it again. Now.


Few months ago when I was doing the same ECW '09 project. I guess I should. Although I'm certain I wrote a mini-review in this thread with my thoughts on why I didn't find it to be nearly as special as I once did.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You were doing an ECW 09 project? My memory is TERRIBLE when it comes to other people . How far did you get?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Someone give me 10ish Finlay 2006 TV matches, before they turned him into a Woggle's bitch and joke. I remember SD 2006 vaguely.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Henry no DQ is good but doesn't come close to their first match. Really good chemistry and dynamic between the two. At the time I was hoping they'd have a PPV match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> You were doing an ECW 09 project? My memory is TERRIBLE when it comes to other people . How far did you get?


Pardon the latter match here and there I got around to 6/30 right when the new talent initiative began. I don't even know why I got halted from that point. I should finish it up. Get in the Superstars matches for ECW at the same time too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everything ***+ from Finlay in 06:

Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ****1/4
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - ****1/4
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - King of the Ring Qualifying Match - Smackdown May 5th 2006 - ****1/4
Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - ****
Batista Vs King Booker Vs Finlay - WHC - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - ****
The Undertaker & Kane Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown December 22nd 2006 - ***3/4
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown March 24th 2006 - ***3/4
Matt Hardy & Gunner Scott Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown June 16th 2006 - ***3/4
Finlay Vs Mr Kennedy Vs Bobby Lashey - US Title - Smackdown September 1st 2006 - ***1/2
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - King of the Ring Semi Final Match - Smackdown May 12th 2006 - ***1/2
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 8th 2006 - ***1/2
Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Great American Bash 2006 July 23rd - ***1/2
Finlay Vs Batista - Smackdown November 10th 2006 - ***1/2
Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - US Title - Smackdown July 21st 2006 - ***1/2
Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Smackdown July 28th 2006 - ***1/2
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown June 9th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown September 22nd 2006 - ***
Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - Smackdown January 20th 2006 - ***
Finlay & JBL Vs Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley - Smackdown February 17th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - US Title - Smackdown August 18th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 15th 2006 - ***
Batista Vs Finlay - Smackdown December 8th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs King Booker & Finlay - Smackdown November 17th 2006 - ***
Finlay Vs John Cena - Smackdown December 15th 2006 - ***


Watched Henry/Punk from Raw UK, and FUCK. What an epic 10 minute match. I seriously need to watch their first match to see how that holds up, because this was TREMENDOUS, **** easy.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Did Big Show's run as ECW champ produce any great matches? I seem to recall him being awesome at the time but that might be more character related.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DAT BIG SHOW - FLAIR MATCH .

GOATS GONNA GOAT :flair3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show/Flair and Show/Taker were both great. Kane match is fun too. Some people (some crazy texan) likes the Lashley title rematch after D2D.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Big Z said:


> Everything ***+ from Finlay in 06:
> 
> Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ****1/4
> Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - ****1/4
> ...


(Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh yes I vaguely remember Show/Flair. Gonna watch that tonight as well as the Show/HHH LMS that Yeah1993 mentioned earlier. What's the date for that Show/Taker match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Did Big Show's run as ECW champ produce any great matches? I seem to recall him being awesome at the time but that might be more character related.


Yeah, just about all of his championship defenses were worth a watch iirc. Pardon vs Sabu & the Batista match - although the Hammerstein Ballroom crowd made it an experience.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Show/Batista match is comedy. Crowds can make or break a match. I don't know if anyone has ever watched that match actually concentrating on the ring action and not what's being chanted.

And *Hayley/Cody*, was the 19/7 Orton/Edge match the one where they run the ropes a bunch of times (cross like)? Or is that Vengeance I'm thinking of. Really need to give Vengeance another watch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cal I saw you call HHH/Taker from SD '08 horrible. Why? I remember it being good. In fact I feel like HHH's entire run on Smackdown that year is underrated and deserves more praise. Apart from the disaster with Kozlov at Survivor Series he was consistently putting on good matches. Some solid 10 minute matches against Show, Shelton, MVP, basically anyone in the mid/upper card at the time. There's a TV match in December (I think) against Jeff Hardy which is only a notch or two below their best work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vengeance.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Cal I saw you call HHH/Taker from SD '08 horrible. Why? I remember it being good. In fact I feel like HHH's entire run on Smackdown that year is underrated and deserves more praise. Apart from the disaster with Kozlov at Survivor Series he was consistently putting on good matches. Some solid 10 minute matches against Show, Shelton, MVP, basically anyone in the mid/upper card at the time. There's a TV match in December (I think) against Jeff Hardy which is only a notch or two below their best work.


Yeah, didn't like it, was just them throwing bombs right off the bat for no reason and it didn't really look that good imo. That's all I remember off the top of my head as to why I didn't like it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I've never been a big fan of Edge/Orton Vengeance '04. I guess I can see why people like it but way too many restholds in the middle of the match if I remember correctly.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Could some of the people in here (thinking *Haley*, *Cal*, *Choke2Death*, etc but any input would be appreciated) give me their lists for the best WWE ppvs from 2002-2013 please? I want to raid silvervision because they have a closing down sale going on right now, so I want to make some shrewd investments...

Best meaning either for the quality of matches, cards as a whole for the execution of angles or even a combination of both. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Just watched Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar for the first time since the original airing. I have it at ★★★¾

Good brawl, and given the storyline going into it with Steph and Shawn, it made complete sense the way it played out. Good work over the arm from Lesnar, and there was a nice comeback moment for Triple H when he hurt the body of Lesnar. Nice tie in to the diverticulitus that Lesnar went through. And goddamn did Lesnar sell the stomach knees well. Good stuff from Hunter and Lesnar, but I'm not too keen on a rematch. This match was good, but not great, and DEFINITELY not enough to warrant enough excitement for a rematch.

If anything, this should've been a tune up match for Lesnar in the buildup to this showdown with Taker at WrestleMania 29. Triple H was a man who went toe to toe with the Undertaker for 2 straight Manias, and Lesnar was a guy who completely destroyed Triple H bell to bell. There you go. That's a good sell to all the fans of Lesnar vs. Taker.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Yeah, didn't like it, was just them throwing bombs right off the bat for no reason and it didn't really look that good imo. That's all I remember off the top of my head as to why I didn't like it.


Really? I seem to remember some limb work in there. Throwing bombs is pretty much what HHH and Taker do best as a pairing anyway. Loved how they took that approach in their WM27 match. 'Fuck a feeling out process, do damage from the start' struck me as the perfect way for Hunter to threaten the streak, especially after the Taker/Michaels matches. Should really re-watch both WM27 and WM28 sometime soon, maybe before this year's Mania. Not sure which I think is better but they're both epic. Love 28 for the storytelling and conclusion of the entire arc but 27 had bigger bumping and the HHH Tombstone which never gets old to me as a surreal false finish. Has anyone other than Kane hit the piledriver on Taker?


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Could some of the people in here (thinking *Haley*, *Cal*, *Choke2Death*, etc but any input would be appreciated) give me their lists for the best WWE ppvs from 2002-2013 please? I want to raid silvervision because they have a closing down sale going on right now, so I want to make some shrewd investments...
> 
> Best meaning either for the quality of matches, cards as a whole for the execution of angles or even a combination of both. Thanks in advance.


Make sure you snatch MITB 11 and MITB 10 if they have it. Other then that, Royal Rumble 11 is good, Extreme Rules 2012 and 2011 are great, Vengeance 2002, SummerSlam 2002, WrestleMania XIX, SummerSlam 2003, Survivor Series 2003, Backlash 2004-2009 are all good. The Bash 2009 was pretty decent. VENGEANCE 2005. TLC 2009, TLC 2012. SummerSlam 2008-2011 is pretty good. 

Quite frankly, there are about 7 or 8 PPV's every year that pretty much deliver.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Like I said, its been a while since I saw it. And yeah those 2 are good at throwing bombs, but a random SD match didn't seem like the place for them to be doing that.

Orton hit a Tombstone on Undertaker in their HIAC match, after trying all year since WM lol.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Punter said:


> Make sure you snatch *MITB 11* and MITB 10 if they have it. Other then that, Royal Rumble 11 is good, Extreme Rules 2012 and 2011 are great, Vengeance 2002, *SummerSlam 2002*, *WrestleMania XIX*, SummerSlam 2003, Survivor Series 2003, *Backlash 2004*-2009 are all good. The Bash 2009 was pretty decent. VENGEANCE 2005. TLC 2009, TLC 2012. SummerSlam 2008-2011 is pretty good.
> 
> Quite frankly, there are about 7 or 8 PPV's every year that pretty much deliver.


I have the bolded and all of the Mania's in general. I'm thinking more along the lines of the "b-ppvs" to be honest.

Edit- Just discovered Canadian Stampede IYH 16 in the tagged classics section. I used to have that on VHS, ordering it now


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punter said:


> Just watched Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar for the first time since the original airing. I have it at ★★★¾
> 
> Good brawl, and given the storyline going into it with Steph and Shawn, it made complete sense the way it played out. Good work over the arm from Lesnar, and there was a nice comeback moment for Triple H when he hurt the body of Lesnar. Nice tie in to the diverticulitus that Lesnar went through. And goddamn did Lesnar sell the stomach knees well. Good stuff from Hunter and Lesnar, but I'm not too keen on a rematch. This match was good, but not great, and DEFINITELY not enough to warrant enough excitement for a rematch.
> 
> If anything, this should've been a tune up match for Lesnar in the buildup to this showdown with Taker at WrestleMania 29. Triple H was a man who went toe to toe with the Undertaker for 2 straight Manias, and Lesnar was a guy who completely destroyed Triple H bell to bell. There you go. That's a good sell to all the fans of Lesnar vs. Taker.


Glad you liked it. I don't understand the negativity towards the match. I hear the reasoning but I've see the match two or three times now and the criticisms thrown at it have never bothered me. Maybe it's because I like Hunter more than most but idk, I have no problem admitting he's not an amazing worker and still think the match was very well put together and executed. I wish the commentators had played up Brock's stomach problems more. They mentioned it but they should've really put it over as the reason Brock's UFC career ended and all that.

Agreed that Lesnar/Taker is better for Mania than Lesnar/Hunter II but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think Brock and Trips could pull off a really good gimmick match. Make it no holds barred, put H's career on the line, and let them kill each other.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

EDIT - DIDN'T MEAN TO FUCKING POST THIS YET. WATCHING EDDIE/TAJIRI V WGTT NOW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Could some of the people in here (thinking *Haley*, *Cal*, *Choke2Death*, etc but any input would be appreciated) give me their lists for the best WWE ppvs from 2002-2013 please? I want to raid silvervision because they have a closing down sale going on right now, so I want to make some shrewd investments...
> 
> Best meaning either for the quality of matches, cards as a whole for the execution of angles or even a combination of both. Thanks in advance.


2002 - SUMMERSLAM(!!!), Unforgiven, Survivor Series _(Honorable match mentions: Kurt Angle vs Edge from Backlash & Judgment Day, The Undertaker vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle from Vengeance, & The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar from No Mercy)_

2003 - No Way Out (two matches are AWFUL but the card is very consistent for the majority), WRESTLEMANIA 19 AKA THE BEST WRESTLEMANIA EVER, VENGEANCE, Summerslam, No Mercy, & Survivor Series. _(Honorable match mentions: Los Guerreros vs Team Angle from Backlash, Chris Jericho vs Bill Goldberg from Bad Blood, & Kane vs Shane McMahon from Unforgiven)_

2004 - No Way Out, WrestleMania 20, Judgment Day, & Survivor Series. _(Foley vs Orton & Benoit vs HHH vs Michaels from Backlash, Mysterio vs Chavo Jr & Eddie vs JBL from GAB, Benoit vs Kane from Bad Blood, & Benoit & Regal vs Flair & Batista from Unforgiven)_

2005 - Royal Rumble, Judgment Day, ECW One Night Stand, VENGEANCE, Summerslam, Unforgiven, & Armageddon. _(MITB I, The Undertaker vs Randy Orton from WrestleMania 21, Benoit vs Edge from Backlash, & Eddie vs Mysterio from Great American Bash)_

2006 - WrestleMania 22, Backlash, Judgment Day, Unforgiven, & NO MERCY. _(Honorable match mentions: Orton vs Mysterio & Undertaker vs Angle from No Way Out & 4 way Ladder match from Armageddon)_

2007 - ROYAL RUMBLE, WrestleMania 23, BACKLASH, Cyber Sunday Survivor Series, & Armageddon. _(Honorable match mentions: Undertaker & Batista vs Cena & Michaels from No Way Out, Hardys vs WGTT from Extreme Rules, Jeff Hardy vs Umaga & Cena vs Lashley from Great American Bash, Finlay vs Kane from Summerslam, & Triple H vs Randy Orton from No Mercy.)_

2008 - No Way Out, WrestleMania 24, One Night Stand, Great American Bash, Night of Champions, Summerslam, NO MERCY, Armageddon. _(Honorable mentions: Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho from Judgment Day & Unforgiven)_

2009 - Backlash, Judgment Day, Extreme Rules, Summerslam, Breaking Point. _(Honorable match mentions: The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels from WrestleMania 25, Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio from The Bash, & World Championship Elimination Chamber from No Way Out)_

2010 - Royal Rumble, WrestleMania 26, Extreme Rules, MONEY IN THE BANK, TLC. _(Honorable match mentions: CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio from Over the Limit, Danielson vs Ziggler from Bragging Rights, & the first 4 matches of Survivor Series)_

2011 - ELIMINATION CHAMBER, MONEY IN THE BANK, Extreme Rules, Summerslam, TLC. _(Collectively Night of Champions & Hell In A Cell are fine events too. HIAC is pretty underrated imo)_

2012 - WrestleMania 28, EXTREME RULES, Money in the Bank, & Night of Champions. _(Honorable match mentions from other PPVs: 6 man TLC from TLC & Sheamus vs Show from Hell in a Cell)_


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> 2002 - Unforgiven, Survivor Series
> 
> 2003 - No Way Out (two matches are AWFUL but the card is very consistent for the majority), *WRESTLEMANIA 19 AKA THE BEST WRESTLEMANIA EVER*, VENGEANCE, Summerslam, No Mercy, & Survivor Series.
> 
> ...


Cody you are a fucking LEGEND. The *bolded* also made me  (although I already have it).

EDIT- I have taken out the ones that I already own (apart from the Mania XIX name drop ). I'm definitely not interested in any one match events events either (dailymotion), but I appreciate the effort none the less (Y).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Couldn't leave out some golden matches so I had to toss them in the mix too. b/c if I didn't plug something stellar like Punker vs Mysterio from Over the Limit 2010 I probably would have hated myself. 

WM 19 :mark: 

Everything a WrestleMania should be.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Is edge vs. orton from vengeance 04 worth watching? Saw some reviews from 411 and they have it at around ***-***1/2 star mark.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HWRP said:


> Is edge vs. orton from vengeance 04 worth watching? Saw some reviews from 411 and they have it at around ***-***1/2 star mark.


Yeah it's worth watching. Personally I don't think it's great but a lot of people like it. 

HHH/Benoit from the same show is better and was on its way to being an excellent main event before the Eugene shit happened.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Glad you liked it. I don't understand the negativity towards the match. I hear the reasoning but I've see the match two or three times now and the criticisms thrown at it have never bothered me. Maybe it's because I like Hunter more than most but idk, I have no problem admitting he's not an amazing worker and still think the match was very well put together and executed. I wish the commentators had played up Brock's stomach problems more. They mentioned it but they should've really put it over as the reason Brock's UFC career ended and all that.
> 
> Agreed that Lesnar/Taker is better for Mania than Lesnar/Hunter II but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think Brock and Trips could pull off a really good gimmick match. Make it no holds barred, put H's career on the line, and let them kill each other.


I was negative towards it at first, but quite enjoyed it on the rewatch. A gimmick match would definitely serve those two well, but once you get the image of Lesnar/Taker at WM 29 in your head, Triple H/Lesnar doesn't quite fill the void. Not against it, but when theres a better option right there hitting you dead right in the chest, I don't know why they won't take it.

Fully expecting Lesnar/HHH II to be a MUCH better match though. I have no problem giving it a chance.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HWRP said:


> Top 10 Smackdown TV matches of all time in your opinion guys? Would also like to hear your opinions on the top 10 ECW (wwe one) matches of all time, PPV and tv matches included.


1. Guerrero v Mysterio 6/23/05
2. Austin v Benoit 5/31/01
3. Mysterio v Orton 4/7/06
4. Benoit v Finlay 5/5/06
5. Finlay v Hardy 6/22/07
6. Benoit v Finlay 11/24/06
7. Guerrero/Tajiri v Haas/Benjamin 5/22/03
8. Henry v Bryan 11/29/11
9.. Benoit v Orton 1/13/06
10. Guerrero v Mysterio 3/18/04


Very, very tentative. Well the last few; I think I am happy with that top 5. Stuff I haven't seen in a while like Angle/Taker from 03 and the Eddy/Edge street fight could place, but I have no idea how/if they hold up. I've also never seen the Angle/Lesnar iron man. Well, I think I saw twenty minutes of it and I had to leave. Haven't seen Rey/Morrison either. I kinda wanted to add Taker/Angle 3/3/06, the two best McIntyre/Christians, Rey/Henry 1/20/06, Lesnar/Benoit 12/4/03, Finlay/Mysterio 11/9/07, Benoit/Orton 1/13/06, Benoit/Edge 6/8/07 and realistically they could all take a spot somewhere.

Best 25 or so SD matches would be a fun as hell project.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay folks, I've finally got my 2000-2012 PPV project started, and I've already finished one of its biggest names - Triple H. My official ranking of ALL HHH PPV matches from 00-12:



> 1. vs. Mick Foley, Royal Rumble 2000 (*****)
> 2. vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, No Way Out 2001 (*****)
> 3. vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 28 (*****)
> 4. vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)
> ...


:jpl


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punter said:


> I was negative towards it at first, but quite enjoyed it on the rewatch. A gimmick match would definitely serve those two well, but once you get the image of Lesnar/Taker at WM 29 in your head, Triple H/Lesnar doesn't quite fill the void. Not against it, but when theres a better option right there hitting you dead right in the chest, I don't know why they won't take it.
> 
> Fully expecting Lesnar/HHH II to be a MUCH better match though. I have no problem giving it a chance.


It shouldn't be the case because Mania is the biggest show of the year and they should go with the best options they have but I get the feeling they want to save certain matches for Wrestlemania 30. Lesnar/Taker might be one of them, although Cena/Taker would be perfect for that event too. There's also the fact that we really don't know what condition Taker's body is in. Heard talk that he's hurting too bad to take Lesnar's physicality. Most likely BS but it might be worth some consideration.

I don't know though, that said I'm still not sure Lesnar/Hunter is happening. Some people seem to be but I can't see Trips wrestling with the short hair. Could see him being in Taker's corner or the special ref for Brock/Taker.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Why was bryan vs. punk from OTL not on the best of 2012 ppv matches dvd? Neither was lesnar vs. cena which was pretty annoying.

Had bryan/punk from OTL at ****3/4 on my last watch. What has the general reception for this match been?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Is Smackdown 2009 any good from a match stand point outside of the summer months? I know the Summer was GOAT since you had people like Punk, Mysterio, Jericho, Hardy, and Morrison tearing things up but outside of that, was it good? I ask because I'm considering doing 2009 Smackdown after I finish 2006 Smackdown.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT - DIDN'T MEAN TO FUCKING POST THIS YET. WATCHING EDDIE/TAJIRI V WGTT NOW.





Yeah1993 said:


> 1. Guerrero v Mysterio 6/23/05
> 2. Austin v Benoit 5/31/01
> 3. Mysterio v Orton 4/7/06
> 4. Benoit v Finlay 5/5/06
> ...


I take it you liked it then :mark: . Gonna be on my top 100 matches of the decade ballot, and likely to be running neck and neck with Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/HHH as my best WWE tag. I'd take Christian/Mcintyre 7/30 over Eddie/Rey 3/18/04, wasn't as big a fan of that when I rewatched it for the poll. Would call it a good match and Eddie's ability to get Rey support and backing without compromising his own support and not playing a heel deserves credit, but for whatever reason I wasn't feeling it as much this time around. Top 5 I'd definitely agree with. Might have Orton/Mysterio above Benoit/Austin but that wouldn't be a definite and would likely be one of those 'ask me tomorrow and it'll be the other way around' scenarios. YES at Finlay/Hardy being that high. I keep pimping it ever since sterling wrote about it for the poll and it seems only a handful of people check it out. Maybe Hardy's career performance alongside the Cage match vs Edge.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> It shouldn't be the case because Mania is the biggest show of the year and they should go with the best options they have but I get the feeling they want to save certain matches for Wrestlemania 30. Lesnar/Taker might be one of them, although Cena/Taker would be perfect for that event too. There's also the fact that we really don't know what condition Taker's body is in. Heard talk that he's hurting too bad to take Lesnar's physicality. Most likely BS but it might be worth some consideration.
> 
> I don't know though, that said I'm still not sure Lesnar/Hunter is happening. Some people seem to be but I can't see Trips wrestling with the short hair. Could see him being in Taker's corner or the special ref for Brock/Taker.


Maybe they'll throw a complete 180 and go somewhere else, who knows. But with Lesnar attacking Vince and everything, I'm fully expecting Lesnar/HHH II. I don't buy the Taker rumours that he's hurt. They might be true, but I think its more of a fake report then anything, OR if it IS insider information, it might just be fake information to the dirt sheets so that when Taker does return, it will be more impactful. I know they won't need Taker this year to pull a good butyrate as they have Rock and Brock, but Mania will absolutely not be the same without the Undertaker, his chilling entrance, and the classic match he'll put on with his opponent, no matter who. 

Also, if anyone can PM me a place where they watch all these full RAW/SmackDown episodes and PPV's, it would be greatly appreciated 

Unless you guys download them from torrents or something :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES ! A FUCKING TRIPLE H LIST ! That was the first huge project I ever did, except I watched EVERY GAME PPV match inclduing his Starrcade match where he jobbed to Alex Wright (which was actually a pretty damn good match) , so I'm going to rate this list as follows ; 

*Three Overrated*

1. vs Shawn Michaels @ RR 04 ; Yeah I know, I've trashed this match enough in my tenure here but it needs to be said that I believe this is one of the worst gimmick matches GAME has ever had in his career, and perhaps the shining example of how retarded HBK and GAME can be sometimes in the ring (SEE ; Armageddon 2002). There's literally NO middle portion to this match as they transition from an overly long feeling out sequence to an underwhelming climax. Just BLEH.

2. vs Edge vs Big Show vs Kozlov vs Hardy vs Undertaker @ NWO 09 ; I REALLY don't know about this one. I thought it was a pretty good chamber and I'd probably put it around the likes of three and a quarter but DAMN does it not hold up in standards to the likes of NYR 05 and SS 02. Again ; I'm choosing the matches that we're off by a pretty long amount by and these are one of those matches.

3. vs Shawn Michaels @ BB 04 ; I actually really like this match, but four and a half stars is pretty ridiculous all things considered. The OMGZEPICNESS attempts returned and the overkill astounded me, but I thought it had a nice slow build and a good payoff at the end... It was good but not CLASSIC good, not even close IMO.

We were off by 1/4* - 3/4* on a nice few of these matches but that's pretty minor in my book, seems like we agree on alof of these matches TBH.


*Three Underrated*

1. vs Kevin Nash @ TLC 11 & BB 03 : I'm dead serious about this ; these matches are fucking awesome. Not awesome as in four stars awesome, but I'd go about a full star higher on both of them due to their pretty awesome storytelling. People like to say that these matches are slow, plodding, and boring but they're just looking past how awesome these two can work at times (Fuck you JD 03 match, you suck balls) ; slow, deliberate pacing mixed with great psychology. Both are pretty damn awesome and I might even have the BB 03 cell over the BB 04 cell.

2. vs Batista @ Backlash 2005 ; I love this match. Seriously, the whole "you're afraid of the pedigree" story just fucking rocks as Batista tries to avoid that shit like it's the plague. Would be a classic if it wasn't for Batista's insistence of destroying a whole match's worth of back worth with his damned power moves. LEGIT I'd have this far, far higher.

3. vs Booker T @ WM XIX ; I didn't rewatch this yet so god knows how right you could be, but this was a near classic encounter on last watch , and I'm willing to bet if Booker won it wouldn't have soured in a few people's minds like it has over the years. Reminds me of the WM 2000 main event in the sense that people remember who won on the biggest stage and choose to remember the match that way when it should be remembered as a fantastic contest.

*Three Things You're Spot On About*

1. The Ric Flair LMS > Ric Flair Cage. I have them both at four and a quarter but the Last Man Standing just does it for me. Trips and Flair in 2005 had this way about them where they could almost wrestle a throwback NWA style match from the 80s and I believe that the LMS match is the closest we've gotten to that style in a very long time. Don't get me wrong, I fucking LOVE the cage match but that Last man standing is something else.

2. That Two Man Power Trip vs Brothers of Destruction tag from Backlash 2001 is fucking awesome and everybody should watch it ; being 100 percent legit on that right now.

3. THANK GOD somebody mentions how horrendous Hogan-GAME is. I'd personally have it even lower but to see somebody have that match so low on a list makes me smile a little bit.

*Something We DO NOT agree on*

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels @ Armageddon 02 is one of my all time favorite matches. Seriously, it is and I think everybody should watch it RIGHT NOW... However, the match is fucking HORRENDOUS and that's what makes it so awesome. Pointless to no psychology, bad storytelling, Flair running in for a quick bladejob, mindless weapon shots and OMGZEPICNESS attempts... It amazes me how bad the match is yet how fun it is and how I've watched it like 10 times by now. It's such a batshit crazy match that reminds me of an ECW shit-fest that I don't know whether to applaud it's stupidity or cry because of it. It would NOT be that damn high on my list though 

Overall though, mad props for making a GAME list first.

THE GAME :jpl .


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, and Lashley vs. Randy Orton, JBL, and Finlay - February 24th, 2006
*There are SO many great workers in this match in Benoit, Mysterio, and Finlay. Hell, you could even include Orton on that list since he's been having a career year so far into 2006, especially just coming off of one of his greatest performances against Rey Mysterio just five nights ago at No Way Out. JBL is pretty good as well when in against the right opponent and Lashley is fine in short bursts when he just destroys everyone. This has the makings to be one hell of a six man tag main event.

This match ended up being good, but it could have been much better considering who was involved. There were a few spots I enjoyed, such as Finlay beating the hell out of Rey Mysterio on the outside of the ring while the referee's back was turned and Benoit kicking JBL's hand while it was against the ring steps (a receipt from last week when JBL did that same move to Benoit). The opening portion of the match where Mysterio out-wrestled Orton to kick off the match, which led to Orton tagging out since he wanted no part of Rey, was entertaining as well. Outside of those spots, the match felt like a run of the mill Smackdown main event. Fortunately, those spots I listed above make this match much better than your run of the mill Smackdown main event. I'm not sure this will end up making my Top 50 list at the end of this project, but it was good either way.
*Rating: ****

That's going to do it for the month of February in my Smackdown 2006 project. I'll probably start March tomorrow unless the download ends up finishing much faster than expected. First match I'm going to watch will be the Taker/Angle No Way Out rematch! :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Could some of the people in here (thinking *Haley*, *Cal*, *Choke2Death*, etc but any input would be appreciated) give me their lists for the best WWE ppvs from 2002-2013 please? I want to raid silvervision because they have a closing down sale going on right now, so I want to make some shrewd investments...
> 
> Best meaning either for the quality of matches, cards as a whole for the execution of angles or even a combination of both. Thanks in advance.


I'll try my best.

2003: Backlash, Vengeance, No Mercy, Survivor Series (_Recommended matches are Angle/Benoit from Rumble, Big Show/Taker from No Way Out, Show vs Lesnar from Judgment Day, Lesnar vs Angle and Fatal Four Way from SummerSlam, Orton vs Michaels from Unforgiven and Orton vs RVD from Armageddon_)

2004: Backlash, Survivor Series (_Recommended matches from the rest includes Royal Rumble itself, Lesnar/Eddie and Angle/Show/Cena from No Way Out, Benoit/HHH/HBK from Wrestlemania 20, Eddie/JBL from Judgment Day, Benoit/Kane from Bad Blood, Orton/Edge and Benoit/HHH from Vengeance, Benoit/Orton from SummerSlam, Fatal Four Way from Armageddon_)

2005: Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania 21, Judgment Day, One Night Stand, Vengeance, SummerSlam, No Mercy, Survivor Series (_Recommended matches are Elimination Chamber from New Year's Revolution, Benoit/Edge & Shelton/Jericho from Backlash, Matt Hardy/Edge from Unforgiven, Flair/HHH from Taboo Tuesday and Orton/Undertaker from Armageddon_)

2006: No Way Out, Wrestlemania 22 (_Recommended matches are Elimination Chamber and Big Show/HHH from New Year's Revolution_)

2011: Elimination Chamber, Extreme Rules, SummerSlam (_Recommended match is Christian/Orton from Over the Limit_)

2012: Wrestlemania 28, Extreme Rules (_Recommended match are Cena/Punk from Night of Champions and Show/Sheamus from HIAC_)

Note that on 2006, I'm only about to reach Backlash so I'm not finished yet. And I also intentionally skipped most of 2012 so there are others who can help you more on that one.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Great post ATF! I agree with you on a lot of ratings, though as KingOfKings said I'd definitely have the HIAC match with Nash from BB '03 higher up. I enjoy that a lot and Foley as the ref is a lot of fun.

I also have a soft spot for the WM18 match against Jericho. I think it gets bad rep because of the dead crowd and Hogan/Rock earlier in the night, but it's a decent match and with a better crowd it would be remembered more fondly I reckon.

I personally wouldn't have the WM28 match against 'Taker at the #3 spot as I think that's slightly high, but obviously a great match.

And just got to add the lols at the bottom two matches being those 2 against Steiner. Damn were they awful haha.

Again, great post. You've reminded me of a few matches I haven't watched in ages that I am off to watch now! :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> YES ! A FUCKING TRIPLE H LIST ! That was the first huge project I ever did, except I watched EVERY GAME PPV match inclduing his Starrcade match where he jobbed to Alex Wright (which was actually a pretty damn good match) , so I'm going to rate this list as follows ;
> 
> *Three Overrated*
> 
> ...


This was quite hard to complete, thanks for the props. Now adressin' your points~:

- Both the HHH vs HBK 04 matches I'm actually biased about, because they're both crucial part of my 1st two wrestling PPV's (been watching since late 04). The RR LMS indeed doesn't have A middle sequence, but it has tons of drama to make up, and DEM BLADEJOBS, which even for HBK and HHH standards were quite gruesome. The BB HIAC gets bad rep, mainly I guess for it being almost an hour. There was enough face smashing and Pedigrees and brutal weapon spots to make time fly for me. Sure it may not have been as fun as it would've had it been 20 mins, or even 30, but what the _hell _(see what I did here?). 

- As far as Armageddon 02, it's kinda like a NASCAR race without protection - technically sound? Not even close. More like the ignition for the drivers' accidental suicides. But would it be fun to watch? Oh hell yeah. Tons, tons of fun.

- The NWO 09 match had a terrific atmosphere, superb booking, and awesome big-time action. It felt big from the get go as well with that much starpower, and I'll agree that Kozlov did bring the match a whole lot down, but other than his brief position, this was great. The Taker vs Hunter finale reminded me of the RR 07 in that its two last participants would engage in two insane wars 2 years later at WrestleMania.

- The BB 03 match is meh to me. It wasn't terrible, but I just couldn't get behind it. Whereas the TLC 11 match was only that low because I ranked the list on the match quality aspect mostly - had it been the OMFGNEVERSAWTHISMATCHBEINGTHISFUCKINGGOOD my #1 aspect, it would've unquestionably been #1

- The WM 19 I felt like it was typical HHH of 2003. Sloppy, boring, dull in ways. The Harlem Hangover was GOAT tho. It's pretty much the Angle vs Roode of WM, as in they royally screwed Booker considering all the build. And it didn't have Angle vs Roode quality either.

DAT GAME :jpl


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Cody you are a fucking LEGEND. The *bolded* also made me  (although I already have it).
> 
> EDIT- I have taken out the ones that I already own (apart from the Mania XIX name drop ). I'm definitely not interested in any one match events events either (dailymotion), but I appreciate the effort none the less (Y).


The single matches I listed were for you to head over to dailymotion to check out. 



HWRP said:


> Is edge vs. orton from vengeance 04 worth watching? Saw some reviews from 411 and they have it at around ***-***1/2 star mark.


****1/2

It's stellar.

Oh, and Triple H vs Undertaker vs Big Show vs Jeff Hardy vs Edge vs Vladimir Koslov Elimination Chamber isn't too special. Not bad, but nothing to go "OMG" for. ***1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nash vs GAME from Bad Blood is just awful. Way too boring although nowhere near as bad as their Judgment Day match. The TLC match was fun, though.

And on the topic of Benoit and tag matches, I always find it goofy when he's on the apron and clapping his hands. Some of that goofy side of him we didn't see very often.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HHH vs Nash HIAC kind of rocks. And rolls. 

Good match. I dig the TOOLBOX & CRATE coming into play.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Know I'm late, but top 10 SD matches:

1) Lesnar vs. Angle WWE Title Ironman match 2003
2) Undertaker vs. Angle WWE Title 2003
3) Austin vs. Benoit WWE Title 2001
4) Undertaker vs. Angle WWE Title 2006
5) Undertaker vs. Orton 2005
6) Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio June 2005
7) Lesnar vs. Benoit WWE Title 2003
8) John Morrison vs. Rey Mysterio IC Title 2009
9) Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton 1/27/2006 (No Holds Barred)
10) Undertaker vs. Cena 2004

Edit: All Nash/HHH matches are abysmal, though the HIAC is the least bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm in minority when I say HIAC was worst and JD was better, maybe after seeing the beyond overlooked Insurrextion 03 Street Fight I was too Goddamn dissapointed at what I was getting


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I'd say Extreme Rules was the best Pay Per View in 2012 and it might not even be close. You had three ****+ matches on the show in Jericho/Punk, Bryan/Sheamus, and BORK/Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Funny how the HHH match I decide to praise is the one getting crapped on right now. :hmm:

I don't see how it's bad. I've seen matches go 88 miles per hour in wrestling and bore me way more. Slow pacing has never been something to turn me off of a match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Nash from TLC '11 is quite good imo. All things considered I don't think they could've had a much better match. Wouldn't call it bad at all.

I don't think I've ever seen their HIAC. Never bothered to watch anything from Hunter's '03 other than the Raw match v HBK and Mania v Booker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> YES at Finlay/Hardy being that high. I keep pimping it ever since sterling wrote about it for the poll and it seems only a handful of people check it out. Maybe Hardy's career performance alongside the Cage match vs Edge.


I watched Finlay/Hardy months and months back and it really blew me away. I think it's probably better than Cena/Michaels from Raw that year as well for TV MOTY, and I'd go so far as to say it might be my WWE MOTY behind Cena/Umaga. If I actually do a 2000s list I don't know if I could bring myself to leave this off. 

I haven't actually watched Rey/Eddie 3/18/04 in years, but it was always a match I was sure would hold up. Again I'm not completely happy with anything on that list after #5.



The Rawk said:


> 9) Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton 1/13/2006 (No Holds Barred)


That isn't the NHB.  NHB would be 1/27/06, I think. I prefer the actual 1/13/06 match to it, though.

I really gotta see this Taker/Cena from 04.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's one of the few good Game matches from 2003, tbhayley. Worth a watch. (Y)

True facts: both Bill Goldberg & Kevin Nash probably had their best WWE matches on the same PPV - Bad Blood 2003. Nash of course is referring to his post-WCW return and nothing prior.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I enjoyed HHH/Nash TLC. I was honestly surprised at some of the things they did in that match, like Nash's bump through the table off the ladder was something I didn't expect at all. Triple H's work on Nash's knee through a good portion of the match with Nash's history of knee problems was something I didn't expect either. Didn't think with Nash's broken down old body that he would go as far as he did in that match. So it surprised me in a good way.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Can't believe I forgot Mysterio vs Orton for top 10 SD matches in my list. 

And the No Holds Barred match between Orton and Benoit is from 27/1/06 not 13/1.

Kane/Undertaker after WM24 - ★★★¼

Now watching Armageddon 07 three way.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm going to try to watch the Nash/HHH TLC and review/talk about it today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I enjoyed HHH/Nash TLC. I was honestly surprised at some of the things they did in that match, like Nash's bump through the table off the ladder was something I didn't expect at all. Triple H's work on Nash's knee through a good portion of the match with Nash's history of knee problems was something I didn't expect either. Didn't think with Nash's broken down old body that he would go as far as he did in that match. So it surprised me in a good way.


Completely OFF topic: Christian vs McIntyre from last year. Did you see it?



Choke2Death said:


> Kane/Undertaker after WM24 - ★★★¼


(Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I enjoyed HHH/Nash TLC. I was honestly surprised at some of the things they did in that match, like Nash's bump through the table off the ladder was something I didn't expect at all. Triple H's work on Nash's knee through a good portion of the match with Nash's history of knee problems was something I didn't expect either. Didn't think with Nash's broken down old body that he would go as far as he did in that match. So it surprised me in a good way.


This basically. Didn't think they could possibly have a good match but I was pleasantly surprised with what they managed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really can't watch that Trips/Nash match from '11 again. Just found it horrid the first time.

Don't think it helped that I couldn't have cared less about the feud though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Corrected the date on Benoit/Orton. Thought I remember 1/13/06 recently being mentioned and I saw the NHB match a few days ago, but didn't see the date, so I just assumed they were the same. Still have to see the 1/13/06 as I probably haven't seen it since it aired.

Nash/HHH TLC 11 is horrendous, but better than it had any right being imo. *1/2 for it. **1/2 for the HIAC, and JD03 gets *, maybe even less.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Judgment Day was a DUD. 

Bad Blood is their best match. It's quite good at ***1/2.

TLC was a match I hated for a year. Watched one match ago, now I like it. ***

Not a bad series quite frankly. You'll hear more praise for Scott Steiner during his career yet when he worked vs The Game is was the worst shit ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)


I thought the double sit-up spot was MAD obvious, though. What I didn't see coming was an instant double DQ afterwards. The reunion post-match was pretty cool. And it was a nice change of pace that they would try a different type of match with more "technical" use of moves such as hammerlocks instead of the same patterned 'moves of doom'.



Pierre McDunk said:


> I really can't watch that Trips/Nash match from '11 again. Just found it horrid the first time.
> 
> Don't think it helped that I couldn't have cared less about the feud though.


Nothing in the world could have made me care about the feud and I still say I found their match to be a pleasant surprise. Mainly impressed by the bumps they took for being called The Quad Men.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Completely OFF topic: Christian vs McIntyre from last year. Did you see it?


I can't remember If I did. Was it on Superstars? If so I probably won't of seen it.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I'll try my best.
> 
> 2003: Backlash, Vengeance, No Mercy, Survivor Series (_Recommended matches are Angle/Benoit from Rumble, Big Show/Taker from No Way Out, Show vs Lesnar from Judgment Day, Lesnar vs Angle and Fatal Four Way from SummerSlam, Orton vs Michaels from Unforgiven and Orton vs RVD from Armageddon_)
> 
> ...



Top man (Y)



HayleySabin said:


> The single matches I listed were for you to head over to dailymotion to check out.
> 
> ****1/2
> 
> ...


I can check your original list for them, but I needed a list of just the decent ppvs that I wanted as a reference point. ORDERED NOW.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I watched Finlay/Hardy months and months back and it really blew me away. I think it's probably better than Cena/Michaels from Raw that year as well for TV MOTY, and I'd go so far as to say it might be my WWE MOTY behind Cena/Umaga. If I actually do a 2000s list I don't know if I could bring myself to leave this off.
> 
> I haven't actually watched Rey/Eddie 3/18/04 in years, but it was always a match I was sure would hold up. Again I'm not completely happy with anything on that list after #5.


I think I said something similar re. Finlay/Hardy might only being bettered by Umaga/Cena. I know I said Cena's babyface performance there was probably the only one that sprung to mind as besting Matt's in the 6/22 match.

Please submit one, even a partial one  .

Eddie/Show 4/15/04 has just occurred to me as a possible match that could be top 10 as well, certainly in terms of intelligence and structure. Possibly one of my favourite matches ever. Nothing on your top 10 really stuck out as being questionable, people might scoff at Henry/Bryan being that high, but shit bell to bell that was rivalling with anything Smackdown put out in terms of heel vs babyface, selling, timing, david vs goliath etc etc. Henry put in a wonderful performance, Bryan was right there with him, the match was just a joy to watch and has callback spots to their first match 3 weeks before, just a legit great match.

As for Eddie/Rey, it is good but I think I went in already expecting to like it more rather than contemplating I could like it less, so it had greater expectations to contend with. Wrote about it at the other place:



> *Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio, WWE Title, Smackdown (03/18/04)*
> 
> Hmmm, not as excellent as I recall though still a very good match but in the grand scheme of things I'd go to bat for the 6/23 and Great American Bash matches from 2005 as the two best Eddie/Rey matches to make my list. Its a really good babyface v babyface title match even if Eddie does play more of a default heel by controlling a good portion of the match, he employs some sweet arm work which is a constant focus of his offence (loved the hammerlock stretch he pulled out) against Rey to ground him even if he busts out a few alternate moves such as a tilt a whirl backbreaker. Rey sells it well and is naturally a great sympathetic babyface which gets the crowd invested in his comeback, but I was just waiting for him to incorporate the injured arm into a spot: like he hits this beautiful DDT counter when Eddie catches him in a powerslam attempt and I just thought of Christian's beautiful selljob v Mcintyre when he sells the weakened arm off of a tornado ddt. Certainly nothing that makes me think less of this match, but something that would just propel it that little bit further.
> 
> I'd also say the finish whilst nice in tying into the armwork (although not through a submission victory) felt a bit sudden, like Rey's finally making his comeback and they do a couple of nice counter-counter exchanges into nearfalls but then Rey misses the legdrop off of the 619 and Eddie rolls him up. I dunno it felt more like something you'd buy as a close nearfall rather than the sort of flash pin that felt like a fitting match ender, Mysterio could have probably done with a bigger shine period of offence in the finishing run rather than basically a brief spell. Still on my list for now but I can definitely see it being a likely candidate to drop off.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I can't remember If I did. Was it on Superstars? If so I probably won't of seen it.


Superstars indeed. Back in May following Over The Limit. One of best matches of 2012 from WWE. Without a doubt. 



BLACKANDRE said:


> I can check your original list for them, but I needed a list of just the decent ppvs that I wanted as a reference point. ORDERED NOW.


It's all good. WHAT DID YOU GET?


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Anyone kind enough to give me some good drew mcintyre matches to watch  ? I've heard a lot about his matches with chris masters and christian in particular, would appreciate it if someone could guide me! Thanks


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rawk said:


> Nash/HHH TLC 11 is horrendous, but better than it had any right being imo. *1/2 for it.


:lmao 




WOOLCOCK said:


> Eddie/Show 4/15/04 has just occurred to me as a possible match that could be top 10 as well, certainly in terms of intelligence and structure. Possibly one of my favourite matches ever. Nothing on your top 10 really stuck out as being questionable, people might scoff at Henry/Bryan being that high, but shit bell to bell that was rivalling with anything Smackdown put out in terms of heel vs babyface, selling, timing, david vs goliath etc etc. Henry put in a wonderful performance, Bryan was right there with him, the match was just a joy to watch and has callback spots to their first match 3 weeks before, just a legit great match.


Eddy/Show was something I thought was very good, but short of great. Could benefit with a re-watch of it and I wouldn't be surprised if I thought was great next time.

Henry/Bryan is just everything I wanted in that match, definitely my TV MOTY for 2011 and I'd take it over anything from 2012 as well. I kind of wanted to place it higher. Fuck I should watch the Henry/Bryan trio from 2011 again today. Reviews could ensue.

I was supposed to start education next week, but decided to shift ideas and head to Uni in July instead, so I got time to actually pull a list together. Swear I will try to work on it.


McIntyre v Christian from last year kind of disappointed me. Solid but not what I wanted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> McIntyre v Christian from last year kind of disappointed me. Solid but not what I wanted.


I kind of adored it. It's insane the know the 2010 matches probably have it beat. _(haven't seen them in a while and going by what WOOLCOCK says by the 2010 matches manage to remain on top.)_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

_*Stone Cold vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2001)*_
- After cheating to hold the title, Stone Cold takes on Angle in his hometown of Pittsburgh in a rematch. This one is different from the regular Angle match as he doesn't abuse his finishers nearly as much as he usually does. Austin is in control for much of the early portion on the outside and pretty much hits every move bar the Stunner but Angle continues to kick out. The back drops on the concrete were brutal, don't know how they can ever get up from that. Once the action goes to the ring, match gets more exciting and the Stunner almost comes into play but like the build-up suggested I guess, Angle takes Austin's foot and reverses it into an Ankle Lock which makes Austin submit rather fast even though his hand was under the bottom rope. Finish aside looking sloppy and a bit too much time spent on the outside, this was another great match between them although nowhere near as good as SummerSlam. ★★★¾

_*Batista vs Undertaker vs Edge (Armageddon 2007)*_
- After their epic series, Edge gets added into the Batista/Undertaker feud and this three way happens as result. Match was a bit shorter than it should've happen and there's not enough action including all three guys as I think it should have been. Edge spends most of the time on the outside and it's left between Batista and Taker to fight it out. A couple of clever spots such as Edge ringing the bell during the Triangle Choke and Hawkins & Ryder impersonating him, including having fake tattoos on their arms. After Taker hits the Tombstone, the real Edge runs in and hits him with a chair and covers Batista for the victory. An okay match but not the quality I expect from triple threats most of the time, specially involving guys of this caliber. ★★★


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> I kind of adored it. It's insane the know the 2010 matches probably have it beat. _(haven't seen them in a while and going by what WOOLCOCK says by the 2010 matches manage to remain on top.)_


I liked the 2010 matches WAYYYYYYY more. I also liked McIntyre's matches with Matt Hardy, Mysterio, Low Ki, Masters, Morrison (the late 2011 one), more than it. Maybe the carry-job of DiBiase and a Ryder match, too.

Should prob watch it again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The matches vs Matt were brutal iirc.

McIntyre worked vs Dibiase Jr? I don't think I saw that one.

Drew vs Ryder are fun matches. Well, while I liked whenever they got a chance to mix it up, I don't know how much they changed it up though. Do believe the second match was along the lines of the exact same match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That bump Drew takes on the steps in the Hardy match is insane. Takes a similar bump in a Christian match on the announce table while the monitors and everything were still on it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Interesting. I kept thinking about a Hardy steel steps bump in one of their matches (believe the sub 6 minute one) Either I'm getting my memory blurred or it was a slick call back from the lengthy previous bout in June.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> It's all good. WHAT DID YOU GET?


Basically everything that you listed (that I didn't already have) plus some old classics that I used to have on VHS such IYH 13/*16* + *17/18*, KOTR 95/*96*, Survivors 95/*96* +97/*98* (COME AT ME BRO ), all the Rumbles from 2004-2012 and the Summerslams from 2003-2012.

I think that will be the end of my bargain hunting for a while because I cleaned out CEX of the bargains (shit load of b-ppvs for around £2-3 each, not all good but whatever) and this (your list plus other stuff) was the last load of WWF/WWE dvds that I wanted (from silvervision). 

Seeing as this is the official WWE DVD thread let me just say R.I.P to Silvervision who have always been good for deals over the years (since 95 for me) and have never let me down when concerning online deliveries.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Basically everything that you listed (that I didn't already have) plus some old classics that I used to have on VHS such IYH 13/*16* + *17/18*, KOTR 95/*96*, Survivors 95/*96* +97/*98* (COME AT ME BRO ), all the Rumbles from 2004-2012 and the Summerslams from 2003-2012.
> 
> I think that will be the end of my bargain hunting for a while because I cleaned out CEX of the bargains (shit load of b-ppvs for around £2-3 each, not all good but whatever) and this (your list plus other stuff) was the last load of WWF/WWE dvds that I wanted (from silvervision).
> 
> Seeing as this is the official WWE DVD thread let me just say R.I.P to Silvervision who have always been good for deals over the years (since 95 for me) and have never let me down when concerning online deliveries.


Holy CRAP you cleaned up. You lucky bastard. Especially on the 90's PPVs. I was so jealous that they got released on DVD across the pond but never over here.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

By the time the delivery is done I will be topping well over 150 WWF/WWE ppvs on official dvd. Most of the collection has been built up through my bargain hunting ways so it's not as if it has cost me the earth either 

That's bullshit that they don't/didn't do the tagged classics over in the USA/Ireland/Australia/Togo/I still don't know but please don't ruin the mystery. Some absolute gems are to be found in that collection.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Interesting. I kept thinking about a Hardy steel steps bump in one of their matches (believe the sub 6 minute one) Either I'm getting my memory blurred or it was a slick call back from the lengthy previous bout in June.


The insane Mcintyre flat back bump on the steps is in the feud ender from late June on Smackdown. IIRC the feud escalated after Mcintyre stomped Hardy's head onto the steps. He tries it again late in the match only for Hardy to sweep his legs and lead him to take the frightening bump. I really loved their feud ender. Gets very good time for a midcard feud, Hardy plays the compelling yet fiery and pissed off babyface in a manner not far off from his '06-07 peak and Mcintyre is suitably nasty and methodical on offence. A lot of rough and brutal bumps throughout to put over the hatred and even a Michinoku Driver off the second rope near the end to magnify the need to beat the other. Mcintyre also takes a pretty sweet bump for the side effect not long after his near spine crippling steps bump, which really shows how gutsy and tough the bastard is. Doesn't match the Christian encounters or the Masters encounters, but likely Drew's coming out party in terms of his potential being demonstrated.

As for the 2012 match Christian/Mcintyre match, I liked it albeit I didn't think it came close to their 2010 encounters, namely 7/30 and 8/20. That's not to discredit the 2012 match which was good, but their 2010 series was of a superb standard so they always set the bar incredibly high for any future match. Just thought everything flowed better in the 7/30 match, from the incredible transition spot, to Christian's selling of Drew's immaculate and layered workover to how they built to the finishing stretch with Christian selling the impairment the arm is giving him.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Can anyone help me define what good psychology is? Does a wrestler have to go after a specific body part e.g. Arm, ribs, leg etc to fit the bill of good "psychology"? Because I've seen a lot of matches full of brawling and random high flying moves which are rated quiet highly but have no specific limb work. I'm just really confused as to what makes a 5 star match and what "good" psychology really is. Does every match need limb work? Or can you just build a 5 star match without targetting a certain body part and just using up your signature moves? Can someone please help me out xD sorry If I sound nooby haha


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For me personally, I kinda hate the term "psychology". I prefer to use the term "storytelling", especially in order to help define how great a match is. A good story can consist of someone going after a body part, either because its already injured or it builds to their finisher or even if it was just a random occurrence that helped them gain control of a match. As long as it in some way pays off at the end of the match then that can be considered good storytelling for me.

Other examples of good storytelling would be for the wrestlers to simply have a match exactly how you would expect them to have based on their feud. If they were in a blood feud and wanted to destroy each other, going to the mat and flip flopping about would be fucking stupid, and therefore bad storytelling. But if they beat the fuck out of each other then that's good. Of course it can still be executed badly, which would bring down the match considerably.

Then we have good storytelling based on how wrestlers portray their characters in the match, again even based on the feud they are having. Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio at GAB 05 is a super fine example of this. Eddie is a skummy heel that will exploit the Dominic situation as much and as often as he can in order to try and finally get that big win over Rey. And its incredible. The actual "wrestling" isn't a classic, but the immense storytelling bumps the match up a great deal for me and is a personal favourite of mine.

So yeah, that's some of my thoughts and shit on that .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Can anyone help me define what good psychology is? Does a wrestler have to go after a specific body part e.g. Arm, ribs, leg etc to fit the bill of good "psychology"? Because I've seen a lot of matches full of brawling and random high flying moves which are rated quiet highly but have no specific limb work. I'm just really confused as to what makes a 5 star match and what "good" psychology really is. Does every match need limb work? Or can you just build a 5 star match without targetting a certain body part and just using up your signature moves? Can someone please help me out xD sorry If I sound nooby haha


Psychology is a vague and widely applicable term, there really is no set 'criteria' tbh.

In its literal definition it refers to things that make sense. That can apply to a wide range of scenarios. For example, if your opponent has an injured leg as part of an angle going into a match, 'good psychology' would imply the wrestler would direct his offence at that leg and make it the focus of the match. Ignoring it and focusing on another specific body part would appear strange, although not directly bad (you could always work it as the wrestler trying to weaken as many body parts to give him an unsalvagable advantage).

However that's only one instance of psychology. It also refers to character work and basing a gameplan around your character. Mark Henry wrestling as a chickenshit isn't good psychology. He should be the fearsome monster who's violent and powerful and who dominates, rather than hiding. Same reason a babyface in a blood feud should logically wrestle with more anger and emote through facial expressions multiple emotions of anger, hate and fire. If a babyface is in a heated feud and wrestles a match the same way he would a normal title match, you could argue the match suffers from poor psychology because the match calls for a more violent atmosphere that the babyface isn't reflecting in his work.

Good psychology though varies from different styles of wrestling. In a title match good psychology generally refers to how a match builds and is structured. In a clean wrestling match you're likely to get limb work and body part work as the basis of the match, such as the babyface having to sell and build his comeback. In a brawl good psychology would replace limb work with more violent offence to highlight the different context the match is being wrestled in. A heavyweight slugfest could infer good psychology through the way they sell the others offence and work short but impactful strike exchanges and counters, whereas good psychology in a cruiserweight match might involve the quicker and more agile wrestler being targeted through consistent limbwork to build a story.

Psychology cannot really be measured by one literal definition, as a brawl is different from a matwork match, which is different from a clean title match, which is different from a Puro title match etc etc. There are so many diverse styles in Lucha, Japan, Europe and America that pyschology becomes diversified according to the respective style. Good psychology in Lucha derives from the transitions and how they time the falls in a traditional 2/3 falls title match. Good psychology in Puro (Japan) stems from wrestling a more violent, physical and stiffer style to emphasise the passion and desire to win. Psychology in American wrestling centres more on the characters and how they wrestle: be it Ric Flair the chickenshit/tactical heel, Ricky Morton the plucky and tenacious babyface, Vader the destructive monster or Mick Foley the brawling icon.

Really, psychology can only be measured by the match taking place. Limbwork would look out of place in a bloody brawl, because you associate a brawl to consist more of punching and general 'fighting' as opposed to clean wrestling. What makes for good pyschology in a brawl would look out of place by nature in a traditional title match and vice versa. Really, in order to assess what makes for 'psychology' you have to watch a match, try and figure out the context of the match (blood feud, title match, angle leading to a heel/babyface turn) and decide for yourself if the wrestlers are altering their offence and style to reflect the story being developed.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> For me personally, I kinda hate the term "psychology". I prefer to use the term "storytelling", especially in order to help define how great a match is. A good story can consist of someone going after a body part, either because its already injured or it builds to their finisher or even if it was just a random occurrence that helped them gain control of a match. As long as it in some way pays off at the end of the match then that can be considered good storytelling for me.
> 
> Other examples of good storytelling would be for the wrestlers to simply have a match exactly how you would expect them to have based on their feud. If they were in a blood feud and wanted to destroy each other, going to the mat and flip flopping about would be fucking stupid, and therefore bad storytelling. But if they beat the fuck out of each other then that's good. Of course it can still be executed badly, which would bring down the match considerably.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation it definitely helped clear things up . I have however seen a lot of matches where let's say HBK goes after the legs, continously working on it and locking in the figure of 4 but it hardly has any relevance to the end of the match when he actually goes onto hit the sweet chin music. How do the two connect? Also what do you mean by badly "executed". Sorry for all these questions I just find "storytelling" or "psychology" or whatever you want to call it really confusing at times and it can take away the fun from just sitting back and enjoying a match xD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have always believed in storytelling and psychology being two completely different entities when it comes to wrestling, with psychology being the "why" and storytelling being the "what". For instance, I believe that a match can have compelling storytelling without great psychology (this is how I feel about the Trips-Taker Wrestlemania matches) and I believe a match can have great psychology without perfect storytelling. I've always distinguished between them when it comes to my ratings, with storytelling being that an individual performs an action in a match, with psychology being the reasoning behind it. When storytelling mixes it up with psychology it's a recipe for a fantastic match. 

Take the GOAT match HBK-Taker @ BB 97, the storytelling in that match is simple but beautiful ; HBK is locked in a cage with a man who is going to destroy him, this storytelling is sold through facial expressions, body language and mannerisms to the crowd that "OH SHIT, TAKER'S GONNA KILL THAT FUCKING POS" , where the psychology comes from the why as in Taker stalking Shawn to REINFORCE the storytelling. Storytelling, psychology and pacing are the big three for me in terms of rating a match TBH.

With that being said ; *Starz 4 Wrestlemania X-7 (which I just popped into my LAPTOP) ?*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HWRP said:


> Thanks for the explanation it definitely helped clear things up . I have however seen a lot of matches where let's say HBK goes after the legs, continously working on it and locking in the figure of 4 but it hardly has any relevance to the end of the match when he actually goes onto hit the sweet chin music. How do the two connect? Also what do you mean by badly "executed". Sorry for all these questions I just find "storytelling" or "psychology" or whatever you want to call it really confusing at times and it can take away the fun from just sitting back and enjoying a match xD


When it comes to HBK, there really isn't anything he can do to "set up" Sweet Chin Music, so using things like a figure four etc can just be a way of him wearing down opponents so he can kick their head off with less chance of them dodging/reversing it and whatnot. But like WOOLCOCK and me said, it really all depends on each individual match. What is good for one match could be terrible in another.

When I said badly executed, it could be moves looking sloppy, botches happening, or them having the right idea with what they need to do but doing it shitty or making it dull as fuck.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Ah great read woolcock, that really helped me understand psychology to a greater extent. I'm going to give taker vs. HHH from mania 28 a rewatchh after a long time so I'll be looking out for different types of storytelling in that match. Also how would you define "pacing" and "structure" of a match, what's good structure/pacing and what's bad structure/pacing?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Ah great read woolcock, that really helped me understand psychology to a greater extent. I'm going to give taker vs. HHH from mania 28 a rewatchh after a long time so I'll be looking out for different types of storytelling in that match. Also how would you define "pacing" and "structure" of a match, what's good structure/pacing and what's bad structure/pacing?


'Structure' is basically an extended form of storytelling, its how little instances in a match come together to form a coherent story/narrative. The general formula for US matches is babyface shine period (where the face outwrestles and controls the heel), the transition spot where the heel seizes control, the control segment where the babyface sells the limb work/beating, then the babyface comeback and subsequent finish. 

Structure basically implies how they move from the babyface shine period to the heel control and into the comeback. Flair/Windham matches revolved around Windham being a rookie phenom who outwrestled Flair at every opportunity, yet every transition into Flair control came about through Windham making a mistake. The matches had excellent structure because they built Windham's shine period well enough to make him look great and Flair look in trouble, thus when they timed the Flair transition correctly it felt like a big change in the match because they demonstrated Flair needed to stop Windham and exert control. A match without structure kills any drama, emotion or investment because nothing will feel important. If they don't do a good enough job to make the heel look outclassed early his eventual transition spot won't feel as dramatic and desperate, if the control segment is poor and lacking in any real good work then the babyface comeback lacks fire, energy and the ability to draw the crowd into a match.

'Pacing' is largely the same. It revolves around how the match progresses from chain wrestling, to control segments, to comebacks and the counter heavy finishing stretches, If a match is going 30 minutes then you expect a slow burn match, where the pace progressively quickens as the match goes on and the desperation to win magnifies. You wouldn't expect wrestlers to wrestle at 100mph for 30 minutes, but rather find a way to progress from a cautionary start, to a cool and collected middle and a frantic finish with counters aplenty. If a match is going 10 minutes, then inevitably the pacing has to be altered to reflect the shortened match. You can't wrestle as if you're going 45 minutes if you're only going 10. So you have to find a way to still build the match but in a shorter time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let me reiterate this for those who didn't see ; STARZ for Wrestlemania 17 ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrazzleManya 17:

Jericho/Regal - ***
APA & Tazz/RTC - *
Kane/Show/Raven - ***
Eddie/Test - **3/4
Benoit/Angle - ***1/2
Chyna/Ivory - DUD
Shane/Vince - **3/4
TLC II - ***3/4
Gimmick Battle Royal - 1/4*
Taker/HHH - ****1/4
Rock/Austin - ****1/2


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Let me reiterate this for those who didn't see ; STARZ for Wrestlemania 17 ?


Chris Jericho vs. William Regal - **1/2
Six Man Tag Match - *
Kane vs. Big Show vs. Raven - ***
Eddie Guerrero vs. Test - **1/2
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Chyna vs. Ivory - Fast Forward
Shane vs. Vince - ***
TLC II - ****
Gimmick Battle Royal - * for Nostalgia
Undertaker vs. HHH - ****
Stone Cold vs. The Rock - ****1/2


Whole show = *****


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So this Top 1000 has revived my love for pro wrestling, and I am looking for good TV matches from the following, and the list I post is in order of importance;

Sheamus
Chris Jericho
Rey Mysterio
CM Punk
Mark Henry
Big Show
Dolph Ziggler
DA GAME
Tajiri

All help will be appreciated!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I was never really sure of ring psychology. I assumed it meant wrestling matches must be wrestled a way that it is realistic. For example, if wrestler A is facing Wrestler B and the latter has an injured leg then it wouldn't make sense for that wrestler to do drop kicks or super kicks seconds after he starts his comeback moves. Am I right? I remember watching Del Rio and Orton in a match at Hell In A Cell and Orton was really good at selling his injured arm during and after the match. He clearly showed that his arm was hurting (kayfabe wise, of course) during his celebrations. I guess that counts as ring psychology. 

How do you guys judge a good or bad match then? Do you base it on structure, length, psychology, nearfalls, drama, reversals, spots or etc? 

I have never been the best at reviewing matches so I would really like to know how people review matches.


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## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm pretty much the same as you oliver, that was my idea on "psychology" too. It still confuses me when it comes to rating matches.

Anyway just gave edge vs. Orton from vengeance 04 a watch; have it at ***3/4. Orton played his charchter well and kept working on edge' neck, the ending was pretty cool too. The main problem I had was the amount of headlocks/chinlocks by orton, I'm pretty sure nearly half the match revolved around orton wearing edge down via a headlock. Bit slow but a goodd match none the less


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> So this Top 1000 has revived my love for pro wrestling, and I am looking for good TV matches from the following, and the list I post is in order of importance;
> 
> Sheamus
> Chris Jericho
> ...


Feeling a bit lazy so I'll list a quick match for ya from each guy:

vs Antonio Cesaro - RAW 11/26/12
vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 7/10/09
w/Sin Cara vs Kane & Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 2/1/13
vs John Morrison - Smackdown 8/14/09
vs CM Punk x2 - RAW 4/2/12 & 4/16/12
vs Sheamus - RAW 12/24/12
vs Daniel Bryan - RAW 10/24/10 & Smackdown 10/28/10
vs Shelton Benjamin - RAW 3/29/04 & Smackdown 8/29/08
vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 1/1/04 _(his match vs Triple H from 2004 is worth a watch too)_



Oliver-94 said:


> I was never really sure of ring psychology. I assumed it meant wrestling matches must be wrestled a way that it is realistic. For example, if wrestler A is facing Wrestler B and the latter has an injured leg then it wouldn't make sense for that wrestler to do drop kicks or super kicks seconds after he starts his comeback moves. Am I right? I remember watching Del Rio and Orton in a match at Hell In A Cell and Orton was really good at selling his injured arm during and after the match. He clearly showed that his arm was hurting (kayfabe wise, of course) during his celebrations. I guess that counts as ring psychology.
> 
> How do you guys judge a good or bad match then? Do you base it on structure, length, psychology, nearfalls, drama, reversals, spots or etc?
> 
> I have never been the best at reviewing matches so I would really like to know how people review matches.


I use all aspects hook me into a match. I'm personally big on wonderful uses of story & psychology. I could enjoy a match a bunch, but if the selling lacks then it could hinder the "rating" I decide to slap on it. For example: the great Edge vs Orton match from July 2004 I watched today. I harped on how Edge didn't sell the neck that Orton worked on during the latter part of the match and it slightly left me soured. Soured is a poor word b/c I really, really liked the match, only it did play a part in my assessment.

Storytelling is always key. To me nearfalls or length isn't. If a match is short then so be it. As long as the wrestlers make use of the time given I'll be happy. Some of my favorite William Regal or Dave Finlay matches come from their sub 5-6 minute bouts on TV. If not vs each other. They have one on WCW Saturday Night that is chalk full of great work and it's only in the 6 minute bracket. Better than a bulk of the matches on PPV that got 10, 15, or even 20 minutes imo. Nearfalls is a fallacy. When they're overdone it REALLY waters a match down. I don't want to see people kick out of moves. I want to see the sport/competition of a match mixed along with it telling a story. Whether it's simple or intricate, I don't care. If there is something there with substance I'll be left a happy wrestling fan. It's why I'm so hard on a worker like Davey Richards. Too many of his matches end up being 15+ minute matches chalk full of what literally feels like 1000 moves and even more nearfalls. Stuff like that does not heighten any drama for me. Not at all. I could have a match work a nearfall into play about 10+ minutes in a match and I'd be ok with it. That's been done before. I know it was a Finlay match (yeah, I hold the same guys on a pretty high pedestal) where the first cover came AFTER all of the abuse and real point of the match - wanting to knock around the opponent. I want to say it was a match vs Benoit, but I'm not 100% sure at this moment.

So collectively all of the aspects of a match you listed do come into play for me. In both a positive or negative fashion.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

_*John Cena vs Mick Foley vs Randy Orton vs Bobby Lashley vs King Booker (Vengeance: Night of Champions 2007)*_
- A short, but fast paced match that is never slow. For a main event, it's pretty short at only 10 minutes but I enjoyed every minute of it. Starts off with every man thrown outside the ring with Lashley left alone in the ring then he does a crazy suicide dive over the top rope which I found pretty impressive for somebody his size. They tease a Cena/Lashley fight in numerous occasions only for it to be cut short as the plan was for TGAB. Then Lashley is out of the majority of the match once Cena FUs him through the ECW announce table. After that, most of the action takes place inside the ring and everyone shares the spotlight with them hitting each other with their moves and doing traditional multi-men match stuff. Foley then brings out a chair and goes crazy, hitting everyone with it but after that, it becomes a finisher fest with Orton punting Foley followed by a Spear from Lashley then a Heel Kick by Booker that sends Lashley out of the ring and the match then Cena throws him out and FUs Foley for the successful pinfall victory. Not the best main event but a very enjoyable match and just fun. ★★¾

Also RIP Orton's white wrist tapes. They went away at the same time as Benoit did.  Wonder if changing to black had anything to do with the tragedy. I know Orton is one of the wrestlers who highly respects Benoit even after what supposedly happened.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Since my break is coming up from school soon, I'm definitely planning to rewatch a shitload of wrestling, mostly WWE. It'll be eat, sleep, work, gym, and watch wrestling basically :lol

But anyways, any recommendations on where I should start and what I should watch? Because I missed everything from beginning of 1997 to end of 2003 and also beginning of 2005 to beginning of 2010. Not too keen on rewatching 2010 or 2011 since I've been watching regularly since the Royal Rumble 2010. Except maybe the Summer of Punk :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punter said:


> Since my break is coming up from school soon, I'm definitely planning to rewatch a shitload of wrestling, mostly WWE. It'll be eat, sleep, work, gym, and watch wrestling basically :lol
> 
> But anyways, any recommendations on where I should start and what I should watch? Because I missed everything from beginning of 1997 to end of 2003 and also beginning of 2005 to beginning of 2010. Not too keen on rewatching 2010 or 2011 since I've been watching regularly since the Royal Rumble 2010. Except maybe the Summer of Punk :mark:


Ahh. I was gonna plug 2010 aka the SUPER FUN WWE YEAR imo.

2009 is always good. If not only ECW a la *Big Z's* current project. So much awesomeness from that show in the year. 2004 & 2005 are definately worth seeing too. Mostly RAW, if I'm being honest. Smackdown had some good matches, but it wasn't until the spring of 2005 till that show started to pick up more. 2004 was a pretty bad year for Smackdown. RAW though, man, it was their best in those two years. Evolution was FINALLY where they should have been. In full force and rocking like the new Horsemen stable. Benoit was a workhorse per usual, Edge, Kane, Jericho, Christian, Tajiri, SHELTON, etc. Good roster with what was a guaranteed good/great match weekly. RAW roster had their work boots on for about 2 years, nearly 3. Didn't take a dip in the quality till sometime in 2006.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?

A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
B : John Cena or Sheamus
C : Randy Orton or Dolph Ziggler
D : Mark Henry or The Big Show
E : Alberto Del Rio or Kane
F : Antonio Cesaro or Wade Barrett
G : Ryback or The Miz (FOR DA LOLZ)

Interesting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?
> 
> A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
> B : John Cena or Sheamus
> ...


A) FUCK @ only picking one. It's both. They know it. We all know it. Punker simply has the silver tongue behind the mic. That's the only advantage.

B) Sheamus. This is current and Sheamus has been ON FIRE for what, 10 months? Like ever since WrestleMania 28 he's been unreal with his matches. John-boy hasn't been given much lately. Matches with Dolph this year were a farce thanks to the blah booking.

C) Dolph. It's obvious here. Orton has been the drizzling shits for over a year now. Ok, that's a bit harsh. He's lost his luster in 2011, but now he's in the "drizzling shits" category. Dolph is still a quality worker. Always fun to watch inside the ring. Shame he's been dealt the hand he was given against Cena. Their chemistry is good. Dolph vs Del Rio from Smackdown was a good match however. It redeemed him. As did his best match of the year vs Sheamus.

D) AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I don't want to pick just one. :$ Well, if it is "current" then Big Show wins. Although, sadly, his matches with Del Rio haven't worked for me. I haven't seen Henry vs Orton from Smackdown this week (on tap for tonight) so by default Show wins. I <3 both these workers so much.

E) Kane. Del Rio is cool, but his big matches have fallen flat for me. Kane is as consistent as always. Idk. I'm biased here I think. I'll be the only guy to pick KANE and be proud of it.

F) Cesaro in a landslide. I like Barrett, but come on.

G) Currently only, eh? Ryback. Miz only seems to be worth a damn now when he's in the ring with Dolph. Ryback in his role is fine and had a heck of a match vs Punker. Plus, I liked the second match on Main Event vs Cesaro. It was decent, but it worked and better than I expected.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

A) Daniel Bryan
B) John Cena
C) Randy Orton
D) Mark Henry
E) Del Rio
F) Cesaro
G) Ryback

Oh, you wanted a discussion? :troll


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Here I thought the only guy who would back up Orton would be C2D. :hmm:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

A) I'd go with my boy PUNK on this one, maybe because personal bias tips the scales just a tad. I'm a pretty big BRYAN mark and I love what he's been doing his entire WWE run, and lately he's just been on fire ; but I'm going with the guy who carried RYBACK's goofy ass to a damn near classic match just a month ago.

B) OHHHHHHHH this one's a little difficult. Overall I'd say Cena's the better worker but lately he's just been completely fucked up due to the fact that he's been fed absolute shit and hasn't really had a great match since NOC 2012. Sheamus has been working far superior TV matches since then, so I'll give Ginger Cena his mad props on this one FTW.

C) Dolph for obvious reasons. I think Orton could potentially vault himself over DOLPH again in the future if he gets his shit together and put into a competent feud with somebody outside of Wade Borrett. A long term program with a guy like Big Show or Mark Henry could do WONDERS for Orton in the future. Right now though I'd pick Dolph bu a comfortable margin due to his ability to go out there with ANYBODY and make it watchable.

D) IDGAF if Henry just came back ; HENRY owns so SHOW is doing the job here, even if he's been doing some fucking awesome shit over the past year. HENRY iz HENRY and that's awesome, I'm rooting for Henry in the chamber, and if the rumored Mania card comes to fruition, Henry winning the chamber could salvage alot of Mania for me.

E) KANE. Del Rio is the king of the "average" match and honestly dull as shit to me. I never cared for his matches against Big Show, and honestly the last Del Rio match I thought was GREAT was probably... Fuck I don't remember TBH.

F) Cesaro, because Barrett sucks :lol

G) Fuck this category that I created, FUCK. Ryback's actually had some relevant matches that were awesome lately even though he's been carried (PUNK) , but Miz has done nothing besides honestly somehow get worse in terms of in ring performance. He's been complete SHIT and I honestly have no clue why he's still employed. MIZ SUCKS. Ryback's actually better by quite a margin come to think of it, and Ryback sucks dick also.

EDIT : I was legit thinking of ways to troll *C2D* in this one. I was gonna start off by comparing Punk/MIZ , then moving on to Orton/Bryan... Then I realized that the *Chokester* has a pretty damn unique opinion and that shit's cool with me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KANE vote x2. 

:mark:

KANE


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't like Del Rio and I don't hate Del Rio, he's just kind of _there_.

Long term I don't think he should be the one holding the big gold belt, and as a matter of fact I think that the best decision would be to either get the belt on DOLPH ASAP for a DOLPH-Del Rio-Henry triple threat @ Mania , or to get the belt on HENRY or DOLPH @ Mania (LOL @ me assuming Henry takes the chamber). If Del Rio walks out of Wrestlemania with the World Heavyweight Championship I'm gonna be fucking pissed.

I believe the title's prestige must be elevated, and the only way to do this would be to have it main event a couple PPVs in the near future. DEL RIO isn't gonna fucking main event shit, so the only logical scenario would be for PUNK or CENA to increase the prestige of it and push it to the main event TBH.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I can only honestly think of a few ADR matches I didn't mind

vs Punk Survivor Series 2011, mostly Punker though
vs Show Smackdown 1/11/13, mainly because I am a sucker for David vs Goliath matches
vs Christian Extreme Rules 2011, but Christian :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HWRP said:


> Can anyone help me define what good psychology is? Does a wrestler have to go after a specific body part e.g. Arm, ribs, leg etc to fit the bill of good "psychology"? Because I've seen a lot of matches full of brawling and random high flying moves which are rated quiet highly but have no specific limb work. I'm just really confused as to what makes a 5 star match and what "good" psychology really is. Does every match need limb work? Or can you just build a 5 star match without targetting a certain body part and just using up your signature moves? Can someone please help me out xD sorry If I sound nooby haha


I'm with Cal on hating the term 'psychology', but psych isn't about limb work. I mean good psych can be good limb work I guess, but it isn't strictly limb work. And honestly I could never really define psychology since I have little idea what people really meant by it. I think a lot of different people have their own different meanings for it. 

"Five stars" is in the eye of the beholder. There isn't a set criteria.



Oliver-94 said:


> I was never really sure of ring psychology. I assumed it meant wrestling matches must be wrestled a way that it is realistic. *For example, if wrestler A is facing Wrestler B and the latter has an injured leg then it wouldn't make sense for that wrestler to do drop kicks or super kicks seconds after he starts his comeback moves. Am I right?* I remember watching Del Rio and Orton in a match at Hell In A Cell and Orton was really good at selling his injured arm during and after the match. He clearly showed that his arm was hurting (kayfabe wise, of course) during his celebrations. I guess that counts as ring psychology.


Yep. Selling, to me, is the most important part of a match. Not the AMOUNT of selling, just selling in general. If the selling is bad the match tends to be bad, if the selling is good, the match tends to be good. You can make bad offense look good by selling it well - you can't make bad selling look good with good offense. Some don;t care about selling and if they enjoy the no selling then I'm not going to care, but I likes me some grown men faking injuries. 



Oliver-94 said:


> How do you guys judge a good or bad match then? Do you base it on structure, length, psychology, nearfalls, drama, reversals, spots or etc?
> 
> I have never been the best at reviewing matches so I would really like to know how people review matches.


I hope I don't sound judgmental or anything but I think you're just looking too deep into it. Reviewing a match is nothing more than writing about what in the match you liked and what in the match you didn't like (well not NOTHING MORE, but...y'know). I guess I won't speak for anyone else, but I don't go into a review thinking 'I'll mention the selling, structure, pace in the review'. If something stood out - I'll mention it (if I remember....I do it all by memory which isn't always the _best_ idea ).

Speaking of which I watched HHH/Nash TLC and will write it about it right now. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't like Del Rio and I don't hate Del Rio, he's just kind of _there_.
> 
> Long term I don't think he should be the one holding the big gold belt, and as a matter of fact I think that the best decision would be to either get the belt on DOLPH ASAP for a DOLPH-Del Rio-Henry triple threat @ Mania , or to get the belt on HENRY or DOLPH @ Mania (LOL @ me assuming Henry takes the chamber). If Del Rio walks out of Wrestlemania with the World Heavyweight Championship I'm gonna be fucking pissed.
> 
> I believe the title's prestige must be elevated, and the only way to do this would be to have it main event a couple PPVs in the near future. DEL RIO isn't gonna fucking main event shit, so the only logical scenario would be for PUNK or CENA to increase the prestige of it and push it to the main event TBH.


I like him, but I HATE the way they've gone about with his face turn. It's just crap. I can't stand it. Not him, only whenever they make him say and do the things associated with it. Love how he's incorporated more flashy lucha offense since the turn though. That's a nice touch. Do I want him to be World Champ atm? Not really. I was hoping they would have built towards it over a good length of time this year. Once again the company rushed him too soon for my liking.

Del Rio's best match is obviously vs John-boy @ Vengeance 2011. His match vs Cena last year on Smackdown ruled too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWF Survivor Series 1992

*The Headshrinkers vs. High Energy (Owen Hart & Koko B. Ware) - ** 1/4

*Nightstick On A Pole Match
*Big Bossman vs. Nailz - 1/4*

Tatanka vs. Rick Martel - ** 1/2

Ric Flair & Razor Ramon vs. Randy Savage & Mr. Perfect - ** 1/4

Yokozuna vs. Virgil - 1/2*

*8-Man Tag Team Elimination Match
*Money Inc. & The Beverly Brothers vs. The Nasty Boys & The Natural Disasters - * 1/2

*Coffin Match
*The Undertaker vs. Kamala - DUD

*WWF Championship
*Bret Hart (c) vs. Shawn Michaels - ** 1/2


*Overall: 3.5/10*

- The opener and Tatanka/Martel both felt like TV matches, which isn't a bad thing, it's just they both got time to develop and ended abruptly to put one guy or team over. Bossman/Nailz is pretty bad from an in ring standpoint but I chucked a 1/4* at it for actually having a build & backstory, plus Nailz cut a weirdly awesome promo beforehand. That dude's seriously intimidating in an insane, criminalistic way.

- Well the tag match was incredibly disappointing. For the most part it was just boring isolation on Savage. Toss in a crappy ending and it accomplished nothing.

- Everything up to the main event was pretty bad. Yoko/Virgil was a squash, the 8 man tag was long & slow, and the coffin match was just awful.

- UGH, Bret/Shawn was so frustrating. I hate to say it but Shawn had no business going 26 minutes with ANYONE in 1992, especially when all you can muster up in a control segment are chinlocks and front facelocks. I'm fine with trying to make him look credible but when you go all that time and invest so much into him being on the offensive and capitalizing on opportunities, getting caught off the ropes and tapping instantly isn't the right way to end the match at all. Average match to a painfully uninspiring show. Anyone who says this is a "classic" or even a great match is insane.​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Some people don't like the PUNK match and that's cool but I'm a huge fan of the Survivor Series match as well as the TLC match that features MIZ in it as well. It's actually fucking remarkable that I love that match as much as I do seeing as how I'm MEH on Alberto and FUCK YOU about the Miz. The best match that MIZ has ever been involved in by a fair margin as far as I'm concerned. Same with DEL RIO but by not as big of a margin.

That Christian-Del Rio match is pretty fucking great though, and a legitimate contender for the best feel good moment of 2011. I don't think EDGE should have been anywhere near the match even though he really didn't do anything, but that's just one guy's opinion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I hope I don't sound judgmental or anything but I think you're just looking too deep into it. Reviewing a match is nothing more than writing about what in the match you liked and what in the match you didn't like (well not NOTHING MORE, but...y'know). I guess I won't speak for anyone else, but I don't go into a review thinking 'I'll mention the selling, structure, pace in the review'. If something stood out - I'll mention it (if I remember....I do it all by memory which isn't always the _best_ idea ).
> 
> Speaking of which I watched HHH/Nash TLC and will write it about it right now. :mark:


The words I string together in my head while watching a match are literally 1000x more eloquent than they are by the time I feel like posting a review on them. It kind of sucks doing it by memory. :$



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ric Flair & Razor Ramon vs. Randy Savage & Mr. Perfect - ** 1/4
> 
> 
> - Well the tag match was incredibly disappointing. For the most part it was just boring isolation on Savage. Toss in a crappy ending and it accomplished nothing.


Wow, really? This is like a part of my heart was ripped out. How that match couldn't have been good is a shocker.



KingOfKings said:


> Some people don't like the PUNK match and that's cool but I'm a huge fan of the Survivor Series match as well as the TLC match that features MIZ in it as well. It's actually fucking remarkable that I love that match as much as I do seeing as how I'm MEH on Alberto and FUCK YOU about the Miz. The best match that MIZ has ever been involved in by a fair margin as far as I'm concerned. Same with DEL RIO but by not as big of a margin.
> 
> That Christian-Del Rio match is pretty fucking great though, and a legitimate contender for the best feel good moment of 2011. I don't think EDGE should have been anywhere near the match even though he really didn't do anything, but that's just one guy's opinion.


TLC match was great. I'm a big advocate of it. Some neat spots throw in for Punk to overcome the odds. Ricardo dies in it too. What a fall.

Christian vs Del Rio is good. However, I don't view it as this "classic" that so many seem to do. Christian's moment is epic. The best. Can't get enough of it. The match? Nothing in the 4 star plus territory. Worth a watch, but there were a good portion from 2011 that I'd put over it, tbhayley.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Wow, really? This is like a part of my heart was ripped out. How that match couldn't have been good is a shocker.


I know, right? So much damn talent! Yeah, the promos are far better than the match was. Ramon was still kinda green, Perfect was back in the ring after a long hiatus, and Savage just took all the punishment as always. The only guy that liked it was Brett Mix over at WWEDVDNews, but that's only because he's insane and and all over Savage's dick.

Oh and I've seen the Christian/Del Rio Ladder match 3 times now and it gets better every time. So much drama near the end. **** for me


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have the exact same feelings on Christian-Alberto. **** 3/4* from me, and is surpassed by tons and tons of stuff from 2011 that I'll pimp out. 

In regards to the big gold belt though, the uncertainty surrounding the WHC picture sort of excites me, even if it's just a secondary belt compared to the tertiary belts of the Intercontinental and United States. I just don't want all of this tension to lead to a Del Rio win @ Mania which would piss me off unless we get a DOLPH cash in.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked the SS92 tag. Goes a little too long and isn't the home run you want, but I'd definitely call it good. Hart/Michaels was a good showing from Hart, an OK one from Michaels and a decent-ish match. Shawn spamming the headlock without making it interesting wasn't fun to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I know, right? So much damn talent! Yeah, the promos are far better than the match was. Ramon was still kinda green, Perfect was back in the ring after a long hiatus, and Savage just took all the punishment as always. The only guy that liked it was Brett Mix over at WWEDVDNews, but that's only because he's insane and and all over Savage's dick.
> 
> Oh and I've seen the Christian/Del Rio Ladder match 3 times now and it gets better every time. So much drama near the end. **** for me


So the Meltzer of Savage matches more or less. I guess it's good to know it was a one time type of deal. All 4 gave/have given us enough to pimp them out. Razor vs Bret would only happen a few months later and that's a quality match iirc.

The ladder match is like how a lot of Extreme Rules is for me. Actually a really good show. Most is on a consistent level, but nothing really quite reaches the fever pitch that it needed to. I expected the Last Man Standing & Ladder to run away with the show and I ended up liking the Steel Cage more than both. Mysterio vs Rhodes was the MOTN if you ask me. Now that one was AWESOME.



KingOfKings said:


> I have the exact same feelings on Christian-Alberto. **** 3/4* from me, and is surpassed by tons and tons of stuff from 2011 that I'll pimp out.
> 
> In regards to the big gold belt though, the uncertainty surrounding the WHC picture sort of excites me, even if it's just a secondary belt compared to the tertiary belts of the Intercontinental and United States. I just don't want all of this tension to lead to a Del Rio win @ Mania which would piss me off unless we get a DOLPH cash in.


I don't know why some people think that championship is next to the IC or US right now. It's obviously above them despite not being at a decent level next to the WWE Championship. Importance is still there even though it isn't like how it once was back when Trips was holding it or something. 

I do like the uncertainty behind it too. It's fun not knowing who can run away with the division and having all of the top contenders in the mix. It's how it should be imo. A major belt worth of being in second place & also enough to earn the workers a semi-main event slot. It's where it needs to be since it is remaining without a brand split. WWE Championship is and always will be number one so the _slight_ decline of the World Championship isn't anything bad. It's times like this we're lucky to have it or else top workers like Henry or Danielson might never see the daylight of a major championship shot for a good while in-between.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> So the Meltzer of Savage matches more or less. I guess it's good to know it was a one time type of deal. All 4 gave/have given us enough to pimp them out. *Razor vs Bret would only happen a few months later and that's a quality match iirc.*
> 
> The ladder match is like how a lot of Extreme Rules is for me. Actually a really good show. Most is on a consistent level, but nothing really quite reaches the fever pitch that it needed to. I expected the Last Man Standing & Ladder to run away with the show and I ended up liking the Steel Cage more than both. Mysterio vs Rhodes was the MOTN if you ask me. Now that one was AWESOME.


That it was, sir.

ER 2011 is actually one of my favorite PPVs from past few years. Posted a review a few months back and had almost everything hitting the *** level. Loved the cage match, glad to hear I'm not on my own, and YES, Rey/Cody was so much fun. Sheamus/Kofi had a quality tables match too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That it was, sir.
> 
> ER 2011 is actually one of my favorite PPVs from past few years. Posted a review a few months back and had almost everything hitting the *** level. Loved the cage match, glad to hear I'm not on my own, and YES, Rey/Cody was so much fun. Sheamus/Kofi had a quality tables match too.


Been years since I've seen the Royal Rumble '93 event so I wasn't sure how my memory would hold up on the match. Their King of the Ring match would end up being awesome too, imo.

Starship off the cage was :mark: I loved that spot. It far exceeded my expectations after I heard *Big Z* say he wasn't a fan of it. It was the only review I had to go off of, so it was a fun surprise.

Mysterio vs Rhodes needed to happen more times. Their chemistry is superb. They had my favorite match at WrestleMania too.

Yeah, I got a kick out of Sheamus vs Kofi. I've stated my case on Kofi many times. I literally can count his matches that I like on one hand. This was one of them. Solid match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When I was comparing the belts what I meant to say was that the WHC was in the middle of the IC and WWE in terms of how important it is when it comes to things like card placement. I'm a guy who believes the WHC should be featured in a handful of PPV main events every year, but I have a brand split mentality so fuck who knows. I just hate this "half brand split" mentality with nobody really having any allegiance to their brand but at the same time having TWO fucking world titles and two fucking midcard titles. STICK to the brand split or END it, IDGAF about house shows, just have Punk headline one set and Cena headline the other, jesus.

For instance, do you know what's headlining one set of house shows currently ? ALBERTO DEL RIO vs WADE BARRETT. WWE NEVER comes to my area, thus I haven't seen a show from the E' live in 5 years and even I wouldn't buy a ticket to see that shit. HORRENDOUS.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I swear everytime I post a review in here Cal disagrees with me on it, so I'm waiting for him to pop in and talk about how great that tag match was.  I know he'll feel the same on Bret/Shawn though.

Hahaha. Del Rio vs. Barrett! What a contest!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cal HATES that Bret-Shawn match I'm pretty sure :lol .

It's not that I don't like their chemistry together as much as I think it's overrated. For instance, I don't have a single Bret-Shawn match that reaches ****** , the closest being the Screwjob match which I fucking love and it might actually reach four stars on a rewatch since I had it their at one point. I'm in the middle when it comes to the ironman (overrated by some, underrated by some) , and the rest of their matches I don't really care for at all and they fall in the average range.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> When I was comparing the belts what I meant to say was that the WHC was in the middle of the IC and WWE in terms of how important it is when it comes to things like card placement. I'm a guy who believes the WHC should be featured in a handful of PPV main events every year, but I have a brand split mentality so fuck who knows. I just hate this "half brand split" mentality with nobody really having any allegiance to their brand but at the same time having TWO fucking world titles and two fucking midcard titles. STICK to the brand split or END it, IDGAF about house shows, just have Punk headline one set and Cena headline the other, jesus.
> 
> For instance, do you know what's headlining one set of house shows currently ? ALBERTO DEL RIO vs WADE BARRETT. WWE NEVER comes to my area, thus I haven't seen a show from the E' live in 5 years and even I wouldn't buy a ticket to see that shit. HORRENDOUS.


Card placing means little to nothing to me. It's like when someone dubbed Undertaker vs Triple H from WM 28 as a "midcard" match b/c it happened in the middle of the card. I was like wtf? It's a main event match that is going on in the middle of the show. That's all it was.

So if the World Championship continues to open shows then so be it. I'm not exactly crazy about it, but with the way some PPVs have only a few matches on them, I can sort of understand them wanting to start the show off huge. Although I don't know where they decided that was the way to format PPVs nowadays.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I swear everytime I post a review in here Cal disagrees with me on it, so I'm waiting for him to pop in and talk about how great that tag match was.  I know he'll feel the same on Bret/Shawn though.
> 
> Hahaha. Del Rio vs. Barrett! What a contest!


Cal and I seem to be about 50/50 with our opinion. Sometimes we do have our polar opposite opinion on some matches. Like WrestleMania 27. WAYYYY different between us.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BRETT MIXX. What a fucking lunatic, used to read that guy's crazy opinions all the time. Used to think he was pretty smart until I stumbled upon Angle-Benoit from RAW 01 @ ***** 1/2* while at the same time having Taker-HBK from WM XXV @ ****** . WTF, the next thing I look and he has Flair-Steamboat from CTR and WW as his 3rd and 4th best North American matches ever list while having the COTC (Their best match  ) @ a mere 49th on his list.

He truly was one crazy motherfucker. Brett "Savage/Austin/Bret isn't in it so I'll deduct half a star" Mixx truly will never be forgotten :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?
> 
> A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
> B : John Cena or Sheamus
> ...


A: For me Bryan's the best worker in the company so gotta go with him. Punk is great too and deserves praise for his ability to work different roles and make his opponents look good, but Bryan is better at it.

B: Sheamus. Didn't even really have to think about it too much. Cena's a great worker in his own right but if we're talking currently Sheamus has him beat. The guy has developed into an excellent babyface worker, consistently having good matches with a variety of opponents. Cena's still fantastic in big matches (Brock and Punk from last year come to mind) but I'd much rather see Sheamus v most guys on the roster than Cena v most guys on the roster.

C: Ziggler easily. What's Orton's last GREAT match? His last really good one I remember was against, guess who, Ziggler.

D: Mark 'somebody gon get their wig split' Henry.

E: Before Del Rio's face turn I woulda said Kane. Thought he stepped his game up last year and has been solid for a while. I'm liking Del Rio as a face so far though. Think he has a lot of potential to find himself kinda like Sheamus did following his turn.

F: Cesaro smokes Barrett as a worker.

G: I really don't know. I guess I'll give it to Ryback because I would be interested in seeing some of his matches against certain opponents, especially with a stip involved. Miz on the other hand has a few good matches to his name but they're few and far between. Can't say there's any potential Miz match I'd be interested in whereas if they booked Ryback/Heny or Ryback/Show or Ryback/somebody who's really good I might want to see it. Plus Ryback might be capable of being a decent monster heel somewhere down the line.



Yeah1993 said:


> Speaking of which I watched HHH/Nash TLC and will write it about it right now. :mark:


I eagerly await this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> BRETT MIXX. What a fucking lunatic, used to read that guy's crazy opinions all the time. Used to think he was pretty smart until I stumbled upon Angle-Benoit from RAW 01 @ ***** 1/2* while at the same time having Taker-HBK from WM XXV @ ****** . WTF, the next thing I look and he has Flair-Steamboat from CTR and WW as his 3rd and 4th best North American matches ever list while having the COTC (Their best match  ) @ a mere 49th on his list.
> 
> He truly was one crazy motherfucker. Brett "Savage/Austin/Bret isn't in it so I'll deduct half a star" Mixx truly will never be forgotten :lol


Clash of the Champions doesn't even make a top 5? If it isn't number one _(even though it should be)_ then top 5 is the bare minimum here. You know it is after you watch the majesty. It's still the greatest wrestling match I've ever seen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm mixed on what the GOAT match is at times. 80 percent of the time I have Shawn-Taker in the cell as the GOAT match but then I watch Flair-Steamboat and I'm saying "ahhhhh not sure anymore". I wouldn't go any lower than two for it though. All three BIG Flair-Steamboat matches would be in my top 10 North American matches ever probably, with Wrestlewar probably being 3 or 4 with another match I can't mention due to it being a MANIA! match, and Chi Town Rumble being the "worst" of the 3, falling probably @ 10ish. 

I reviewed the Flair-Steamboat series a few months back and went into GREAT DETAIL about them... Gonna retrieve that ISH in a second.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I like how I was typing my post prior and I had Undertaker vs Michaels in the back of my mind for what would probably be number two. At least as the best WWF/WWE match ever. I got to plug Undertaker in the top 5 somehow. This is the match that does it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat: The Trilogy
_
*Match 1: Chi Town Rumble: February 20th, 1989*

We see Flair entering the ring with his manager Hiro Matsuda, amongst a plethora of women who proceed to kiss and give roses to Flair, while Steamboat previously entered with his wife and son. They are really playing up the whole "Womanizer vs Family Man" story here. The match begins and steamboat gets a very nice shoulder block on Flair, which leads us to believe that Steamboat has the strength and speed advantage over the champion. They begin to chop it out here, and MAN are those chops loud. Flair, of course bails because he has no idea what to do with Steamboats physical advantage. We get some beautiful mat wrestling by both men, until at one point Flair has Steamboat backed into a corner and we hear a smattering of "Steamboat sucks!" chants, which cause Steamboat to get EXTRA intense with some crazy chops and a beautiful headscissors takedown. A double chop gets a near pinfall.

This scares Flair, who bails out of the ring again. I love the psychology here, as once Flair realizes that he can be caught at any moment and lose the title, he decides to go all full blown HEEL mode, throwing Steamboat outside of the ring, raking the eyes, and various other Flair heel tactics. Flair takes the advantage until Steamboat counters back, which of course makes the crowd EXPLODE. More beautiful chops occur until Flair comes off the top rope in a crossbody, but Steamboat turns him over for the near three count. Flair locks the figure four out of nowhere, and holds it for quite sometime, but gets caught using the ropes as leverage. I love how that sequence sums up this match in a nutshell. Flair knows he must cheat to beat Steamboat, but he cannot cheat without getting caught, thereby compromising himself in a particular position.

Some absolutely wonderful chops and suplexes by both men here, as the workrate is off the charts. Both men are selling the wear of this match superbly, and wrestling at an ubelieveably fast pace, one that I don't think I've ever seen before. Top rope cross body gets three but the referee is down. Flair gets a rollup for three as well, but there is no referee to count. Steamboat is spent (being in semi-retirement for so long), and misses a top rope dive. I absolutely love this character driven end sequence, as Flair realizes that Steamboat is tired and loads up for the Figure Four. Steamboat counters this into a cradle for the three count and the victory. Wow, even better than I have remembered, this is probably the greatest paced match of all time. The build up paid off, the storytelling and psychology are amazing, and the workrate is some of the greatest of all time. What a matchup.

*******


*Match 2: Clash of the Champions VI: April 2nd, 1989*

After watching the Chi-Town Rumble and hearing how Cal said this was the best of the trilogy, I was interested in seeing how this match would pan out. This is a very different match than the Chi-Town Rumble encounter, as that matchup I believe was based more off fast paced emotion and hard hitting moves, whereas this encounter is slightly slower paced, but at 3 times the length, can you really blame them ? This match features maybe the greatest matwork of all time, as the first two falls consist of beautiful headlock takedowns, front facelocks, etc. The diversity of the holds are better in this match also, as Steamboat uses variations of the Boston Crab, standing double armed chicken-wing, and even Flair's own figure four.

The psychology in this match is top notch. before Steamboat locks in the figure four, he makes sure to deliver SIXTEEN elbows to flairs left leg before applying the hold. When Flair begins his work on Steamboats legs in the third fall, Steamboat has some excellent selling that complies with the story that these two men are trying to tell inside of the ring. The logic used in this match, and the throwback to the previous match is great, as at one instance Flair is going to run from turnbuckle to turnbuckle and deliver a cross body like he did in the last match, but Steamboat catches him with a stiff chop instead. That's another thing about this match, the chops are just as solid as the Chi-Town match. The build up in the first two falls to the final fall is tremendous, as I will actually go out and say that the final fall between these two might be the greatest twenty minutes of wrestling ever. MAYBE. 

The way that Flair's leg work leads us to the improbable finish is awesome, as Steamboat goes for the chickenwing hold that made Flair tap out earlier, but his legs just won't allow him to do it, leading us to our non-clean finish that sets up the final match in the trilogy. The Psychology and storytelling are off the charts here. While not as flashy and loud as the Chi-Town Rumble encounter, what it gives us in terms of matwork and storytelling is even better. I didn't want this match to end, seriously, and at 56 minutes of pure greatness, you can't really ask for very much more out of a professional wrestling match. Even better than Chi-Town Rumble.

*******

*Match 3: Wrestlewar: May 7th, 1989*

Here we go, I've heard many individuals (including Triple H) claim that this is the greatest match of all time, lets see how it holds up. The build to this match was greater than any other match in the series, as everyone knew this was the final encounter. They take the womanizer vs family man story to a whole new level, as Flair has about FORTY women accompany him to the ring for his entrance. The first thing I notice about this match is it's pace, they're working at that insane Flair vs Steamboat pace that is unmatched by any two competitors in the industry. The beginning of the match gets the fans more involved than the previous match as well, when Flair and Steamboat duke it out in a chop battle. The chops still aren't as vicious as Chi-Town Rumble, but there are about 10 times more of them. 

Now we get to my favorite part of the match; Steamboats arm work. In the previous match, Steamboat made Flair tap out to the standing chicken wing submission, and in this match, Steamboats offense is centered around working on the left arm of Flair to set up the chicken wing once again. I love how they throwback to the previous matches and add certain elements to it. For instance, just like the other two matches, Steamboat teases a dive outside of the ring onto Flair, but the referee stops him everytime. However, in this match when the referee goes to stop Steamboat, Steamboat pushes the referee out of the way and begins to get aggressive. The drama in this match is at a greater high than the other two matches because we know this is the last encounter, so that adds to the match.

Where this match isn't as good as the other two varies. For instance, this match has better psychology and matwork than Chi-Town Rumble, while it isn't paced as good and the crowd isn't as hot. When comparing it to the COTC battle, this match has better drama and better nearfalls, but the matwork and psychology of the Clash battle triumphs over it. At the end of the day though, that 's what makes the series to special; every match is near-perfection and tell the same story in different ways. This is more of a face-face encounter than the previous two, where Flair goes full heel mode. One last thing: Steamboat's selling and Flair's bumping are phenominal, and are some of the best in the entire series. Flair takes back the title in a nod to the Clash match, where Steamboat goes for a slam and his injured knee buckles. Amazing storytelling. Do I think this is the greatest match of all time ? No, as a matter of fact it's my least favorite of the trilogy, no wait..... Fuck it's better than CTR, but a little smidgen off the greatness that is the COTC.

It's a work of art and ONE of the greatest matches of all time, top five in my book.

*******​


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched Show/HHH last man standing from Smackdown 1/9/09. It's unsurprisingly solid. (Y)


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> BRETT MIXX. What a fucking lunatic, used to read that guy's crazy opinions all the time. Used to think he was pretty smart until I stumbled upon Angle-Benoit from RAW 01 @ ***** 1/2* while at the same time having Taker-HBK from WM XXV @ ****** . WTF, the next thing I look and he has Flair-Steamboat from CTR and WW as his 3rd and 4th best North American matches ever list while having the COTC (Their best match  ) @ a mere 49th on his list.
> 
> He truly was one crazy motherfucker. Brett "Savage/Austin/Bret isn't in it so I'll deduct half a star" Mixx truly will never be forgotten :lol


Austin101?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Just watched Show/HHH last man standing from Smackdown 1/9/09. It's unsurprisingly solid. (Y)


I marked for it back when it aired. Need to get on it. Show vs H matches rule. People need to list Big Show when talking about good opponents for Game.

Damn, KOK. I need to make myself another drink and give that write up a gander. FLAIR VS STEAMBOAT. Totally watched Chi-Town Rumble last night and man. Those matches are always going to be blast to watch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I marked for it back when it aired. Need to get on it. Show vs H matches rule. People need to list Big Show when talking about good opponents for Game.


Show might be a top 5 opponent for Trips. Right now I'm thinking Foley, Rock, Jeff Hardy, Cena and Show. Taker's up there but they had the KotR train wreck. Can't recall any bad HHH/Big Show matches. Oh and Benoit, but it's Benoit... he's a great opponent for basically everybody.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Show might be a top 5 opponent for Trips. Right now I'm thinking Foley, Rock, Jeff Hardy, Cena and Show. Taker's up there but they had the KotR train wreck. Can't recall any bad HHH/Big Show matches. Oh and Benoit, but it's Benoit... he's a great opponent for basically everybody.


Benoit in that group with guys like Eddie, Danielson, & Mysterio. Always something worth viewing.

Show has to fit in that list at the end of the day. I'd probably have the same list as you. Thinking about it and I'm wondering if anyone can take out Cena, but I'm not too sure. Like you said, Undertaker is around but I'm very hit or miss with their matches. One time it can be great then the next it's pretty blah. Shawn is the same. Orton is TRASH. Batista gave him one hell of a match, but the other two don't hold up well. And all of the matches vs Austin were disappointments imo. I don't think he had anything special with Angle either. Oh, I want to knock Cena off for Jericho. Duh. I should have remembered Chris. I like/love all of their noteworthy matches together and I think of the weakest H/Jericho match more than I do two of the Cena/H matches. _(I'm not very big on the WM match and their final match before Bragging Rights 2009 was a carbon copy of their previous 2009 match or Night of Champions 2008. Forget which one it was, but it was the same exact match. I know that)_

@*KOK* - I loved the write-ups on the Flair vs Steamboat matches. Really did echo my absolute thoughts on the bouts. On the subject of Chi-Town Rumble I have to chime on on what my favorite moment was. Upon the frantic pace about 10 minutes in, Steamboat locks Flair in a SUPER quick headlock takedown - followed by Tommy Young counting the fall and it got the BEST nearfall ever out of it. The entire crowd GASPED. It's so awesome. To collectively hear all the fans lose their breathe on one move. Such a simple move at that too. I miss those days. The fans were so captivated by the story. And just as equally important - the sport of professional wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ahhh fuckin' Flair/Steamboat let's talk about a REAL wrestling match:

HHH v Kevin Nash (TLC 12/18/11)
I actually wish this was worse than what it was. That probably sounds nuts, but this wasn't any good to begin with, so it being worse could have made it fun. Hey, shut up, I *am* making sense. OK, so I went into this wondering just how horrible on Earth it could be. Nash was a sloppy worker in 90s, and this was a time where you couldn't even say 'the 90s were ten years ago'. Trip wasn't really BAD bad in 2011, but I watched the Punk stuff recently and none of it impressed me. Throw in a ridiculous 'sledgehammer suspended in the air which you have to climb ladders to get to' stip and this had so much potential to be HHH v Scott Steiner the Ladder Match Edition. And that's why I'm a little disappointed it wasn't worse; this wasn't good to begin with, so instead of being dull and a bunch of nothing, it should have instead been an unintentionally comedic good time, like HHH v Steiner was. If that were the case I certainly would have been less fixated on playing snake on my calculator. So this starts with punches and elbows and my God I thought I was exaggerating all the times I said HHH yells 'DOOJ' or 'BOOH' every punch. He had a really quick punch flurry in this where he managed to squeeze those yells in each punch. It's almost admirable. Then Nash hits his corner turnbuckle armpits of doom and yells his fucking head each one as well. I thought it was only a matter of time before they went to outside and I don't know if I even got to finish that thought before they were out there. The outside brawling was easily the best part of the match. Nothing of too much note, but if you have a personal feud, fighting on the outside like this doesn't hurt. I've said this and that about HHH, but no matter how shitty he got (wasn't shitty here but w/e), he was almost always an interesting bumper, and I liked the one he took off of the elbow near the crowd rail. Nash's bumps were surprisingly......existent here. I mean this guy invented the quadricep tear and rolled over the announce table, fell into a table, and actually jumped when flung into the ring post. So Trip eventually works the leg and it's OK, but again, I wasn't invested in it and I can really only remember the figure-four with the ladder and the first sledgehammer shot. Um, sledgehammer. That was here; they did stuff with it. How much offense did Nash get in this match? I recall the sidewalk slam on the ladder that looked good, and a chokeslam. OH! And that Irish whip into the ladder in the corner which Helmsley took his signature over-the-top-rope-off-of-Irish-whip bump nicely for. Nothing here looked too good and this was below average, but it wasn't intolerable. Still wish it was HHH v Scott Steiner.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Acknowledging Nash's LOUD sounds while he delivers his elbows in the corner was the highlight of that read. I point that out in every match I watch with him. I make sure I do.

I begrudgingly had fun with it and can say I liked it for what it was. First watch my interest wasn't there. And fuck it was the worst thing ever. So, something changed in the span of a year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?
> 
> A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
> B : John Cena or Sheamus
> ...


1) Bryan, best in WWE currently, though Punk is surely in the top 5, number 2 in my book.

2) Sheamus, another worker currently in the top 5 for WWE. While I can't stand him as the Irish Cena, and his mic work is damn near abysmal itself and even as a heel he was pretty bad, his in-ring work makes him tolerable for me. You can always expect at least a decent TV match with him nowadays, usually good stuff, and occasionally a great TV match. Cena right now is terrible, though if we're talking 2007 Cena, it's a tougher choice for me. I still might end up going with Sheamus even in that case.

3) Ziggler right now, easily.

4) Mark Henry, easily. He's similar to Show, but does the big monster heel much better in his offense, both physical and especially verbal.

5) Kane and Del Rio... actually it's close. Both are similar in that they're good in-ring workers, but lack a lot of exceptional matches. I'd give it to Kane though as his matches are generally more entertaining for me, but Del Rio, much like Sheamus, is strong in-ring, despite being excruciatingly weak in all other categories.

6) From a pure in-ring standpoint between Cesaro and Barrett? Is this honestly a question? It's Cesaro by far. As an overall talent I'd give it to Barrett easily, but for pure in-ring it isn't close in the slightest. Cesaro falls in the same category as Sheamus and Del Rio where his in-ring work is by far his greatest asset due to everything else about him being bland/terrible.

7) Ryback's fun to watch even if he does terribly in a match... Miz is just poor in the ring, and apparently dangerous with his botches recently (*coughPUNKcough*). I don't know if Ryback has ever terribly botched something like Miz has.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Yeah1993 said:


> Still wish it was HHH v Scott Steiner.


And then Triple HHH will show up and tear off his suit and have a denim jacket underneath! And he'll tear off his douchey hairdo and have long hair underneath! And he'll spit water in everyone's faces until they're unconscious and are forced to hand him the WWF belt! And it will be THE GREATEST Road To WrestelMania ever!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yet to find the bland days of Sheamus. :hmm:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> Yet to find the bland days of Sheamus. :hmm:


Here's the step-by-step instructions:

1) Look at his whole WWE career
2) Take away his matches
3) And those are the bland days of Sheamus.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Heel Sheamus vs face Orton (SANS HIAC) were some of the worst main event matches I've seen over the last few years. Just BAD.

Watching MANIA 17 and Taker-Trips is next :mark: .......... All nighter for me it is.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I liked their Cell match , thought it was a decent match. Definitely one of the better ones since it became its own PPV. 

Their feud was so dull though. Didn't help they were trying to turn Orton into Stone Cold at the time just RKOing everyone in sight every Raw.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Watching Wrestlemania 21 now, mitb I :mark: this is as awesome as my last view. Benoit's selling of the arm is god like, surely a top 20 mania match for me currently. When my countdown begins don't be surprised if its close to the top 10 personally. 

Angle/HBK lets see if it holds up well, I see its been touted as extremely overrated by most of this site. However I dug it last time I watched it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Superstars indeed. Back in May following Over The Limit. One of best matches of 2012 from WWE. Without a doubt.


Ah, then I wouldn't of seen it.  Very rarely watch Superstars or Main Event. Hell, I don't watch Smackdown much these days. Always watch every RAW and every PPV though, and I catch up with NXT when I can. On the subject of Christian, it's a shame we didn't get to see much of him in 2012. He had that good return at Over the Limit and won the IC Title, held for not long before getting injured again and that was it for his 2012 :/ He had some good matches with Cody Rhodes and even The Miz.




KingOfKings said:


> Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?
> 
> A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
> B : John Cena or Sheamus
> ...


A) CM Punk *currently*. With Bryan being limited in the ring and being in held down in a tag team he can't put on quality matches much, but Punk's been putting on quality matches on a weekly basis even getting good matches out of Ryback. So Punk wins atm.

B) Sheamus. Once again this is similar to Punk, Sheamus puts on some quality matches on a weekly basis, I always enjoy his matches with the likes of Cesaro and Ziggler. When Cena's on form though, he can really deliver. 

C) Dolph Ziggler. Can get a good match out of seemingly anybody, while Orton, while a good worker, I feel he only works well with certain opponents (one being Ziggler ironically). Recently I've enjoyed Ziggler's matches with Cena, Sheamus and Del Rio, and I can't remember the last time I really enjoyed a Orton match, but it doesn't help when he's facing Wade Barrett every week. 

D) Big Show currently. His matches with Sheamus were surprisingly good, and his matches with Del Rio have also been interesting. Mark Henry hasn't had a match in while, but when he was wrestling he was having surprisingly good matches with Punk. But as with all these choices, I'm going by their current work so Big Show for now. 

E) Alberto Del Rio now that he's a face and his matches are more interesting now that he's incorporated a more of a lucha wrestling style into his matches. I've been enjoying his matches with Ziggler and The Big Show.

F) Cesaro. Cesaro's matches draw me in nearly every time, while Barrett's matches nearly put me to sleep most of the time.

G) Ryback. He's competed in two great TLC matches lately, while The Miz hasn't had any great matches, only real average ones. 



KingOfKings said:


> That Christian-Del Rio match is pretty fucking great though, and a legitimate contender for the best feel good moment of 2011. I don't think EDGE should have been anywhere near the match even though he really didn't do anything, but that's just one guy's opinion.


Edge made that feel good moment just that much better given their history together and the circumstances at the time with Edge's retirement. And it's the feel good moment of 2011, I can't think of a better one. ****1/4 for Christian/Del Rio and for me it's probably Del Rio's best match I've seen him in.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?
> 
> A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
> B : John Cena or Sheamus
> ...


A: Daniel Bryan - No questions asked. When you're called the Chris Benoit of this generation, it means something.

B: Right now, Sheamus is definitely ahead but Cena has had a lot more memorable matches. Even taking out the "current" tag, it's hard to pick one, though.

C: Same as above. Ziggler is better right now but to Orton's credit, wrestling Wade Barrett every week is not healthy. Still, Orton can overtake the top spot here with ease if he gets it together and they give him a proper storyline and good opponent.

D: Way too hard but since Henry has just returned, I go with Show.

E: Kinda random match-up. I'm one of the few who has been praising Del Rio's ring-work the most around here and I always find Kane a bit limited so my pick is ADR.

F: Cesaro and don't ask why.

G: Ryback had a great TLC with Punk and his gimmick is simply not a technician so it wouldn't make sense to go there with him. Miz has nothing but (lack of) abilities holding him back so I guess Ryback is my pick.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?
> 
> A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
> B : John Cena or Sheamus
> ...


A: This one is tough due to their respective positions in the company. Punk has been doing great stuff in the main event scene but does that mean he is a better worker then Bryan who for the most part is stuck in a dead end tag division? . Bryan short stint in the main event around Wrestlemania was great and showed he could hang at that level ( Matches with Henry/Sheamus/Punk) but that is something Punk's been doing for longer so I have to give it to *CM Punk*. Although there isn't a lot of difference between the two in terms of overall in ring talent.

B: *John Cena* is probably one of the best big match performers ever in the WWE but does have a tendency to through out a dud here and there. Sheamus is a great worker in his own right but I don't think he will ever reach the heights Cena has. Sheamus is probably the better week to week TV match worker but its always what you do on the big stage that counts.

C: I think both of these guys currently are in the wrong roles. Ziggler should be a face due to his main attributes of bumping and being able to work a could back and forth ending sequence and his less then spectacular control segments. Orton should be a heel because its clear his body will not let him be a face , hes so slow and plodding now compared to his younger days. I think Ziggler is better currently but I don't think he has reached the heights Orton has in his career with matches w/ Christian and Benoit. Ziggler is still yet to have a standout match to me despite being clearly talented. So *Orton *gets it.

D: I think both these guys are very underrated especially in their current heel roles. Both play a great big man with Show probably having a wider move set but Henry really bringing his character to the front with his great trash talking and in general I feel he has a bigger presence then big show. With such long careers both men have had ups and down in terms of in ring quality but based off current form and who I'd most like to see in a match it would be *Henry*.

E:Both of these men are really solid in my opinion but nothing exceptional. With that being said their careers in the 'E are massively different in length and there's still potential for *Del Rio* with his latest face run to start showing he is a better then average worker.

F: *Cesaro *has already shown in his short time that he has a great move set whether this can translate into great matches remains to be seen with him , he clearly has potential though. Barrett on the other hand while being decent on the mic his matches really are nothing special to me outside of the ones with Cena and Bryan.

G: I'm going to go with the *Miz*. While he has had some complete duds and one of the worst main events in Mania history he can perform adequately and has shown he can be a great seller at times. While Ryback has found some success in recent matches I think the gimmicks have helped him massively and I always think the staple of a good worker is to tell a story in a basic 1-1 match and I've yet to see that from Ryback . Miz at least has some decent matches with Bryan to his credit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

A) Punk. Both are terrific workers, I'd say Bryan is actually a miracle worker that can have a good match out of anybody (kinda like Benoit, Mysterio, Okada, Aries, etc.), but Punk is silver-lining great too, and he has the clear edge on the mic work too.

B) Currently? Sheamus. The dude hasn't had a worse than good match since the ADR series, and even those matches weren't bad either for what they were (the NOC match was very good actually) - be it Ziggler, Barrett, Orton, Cesaro, Sandow, Bryan, C. Rhodes, Show, Jericho, all great matches from him. Whereas Cena, while still great in the "big match" scene (i.e. matches with Punk and Ziggler) has had nothing but shit for him for a while now.

C) Again, if it's based on current attributes, it's Ziggler and it's not even close. Granted, Orton's achievements and overall ability might give him an advantage - as a matter of fact, if we were comparing Orton in 2011 with Ziggler from this year, I'd actually pick Orton in a nutshell. But, like Banksy said, both guys are in the wrong roles doing the wrong things. Ziggler should be a face since he wrestles and does things like a face and not job as much as he does, and Orton should be a vicious, calculating heel like only he can.

D) Showster has been enjoyable ever since the Sheamus feud began, and he's quite underrated in the ring. But when Henry's at his best, not even Daniel fucking Bryan outperforms him. 'Nuff said.

E) I'd say Kane, but that's maybe bias because I'm a huge Kaneanite. ADR doesn't bother me, especially since turning face, which I never imagined would be the crucial thing he'd need to finally get over and become as enjoyable as he has been, not to mention he's always been pretty great in the ring. But overall, I like Kane far better.

F) If Barrett was given more time to shine, I don't know. But as far as currently goes, it's like comparing Chris Masters to Mason Ryan - it's plain obvious Cesaro is better.

G) Ryback is very good in TLC matches  But seriously, other than said matches, he did have some decent contests with Cesaro that proved he isn't a one trick pony like some will make him out to be (even though he may have been carried). Although Moz did have some great matches too (i.e. vs Ziggler on Main Event) and can sell very well, he's not the total package that could actually go as far as to Main Event WM as the WWE makes him out to be.
Well, neither is Ryback, but he's at least fun to watch in even the worst situation.

I did rewatch the HHH/Nash BB and JD matches, and boy was I wrong on my ratings. I watched those two based on the Insurrextion Street Fight, and that one was easily the best match they had on the 2000-12 timespan. The JD match seemed to follow that kind of match, whereas the HIAC didn't feel as good or as enjoyable in that point, and that's why I rated what I did both matches. A rewatch made me open my eyes, I agree that I deeply underrated the HIAC - behold the new list:



> 92. vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (**3/4)
> 98. vs. Kevin Nash, TLC 2011 (**1/4) - still in the same spot
> 111. vs. Kevin Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (1/4*) - TERRIBLE.


DOING NOW THE BORKLASER PART OF THE PROJECT :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im downloading this atm

any good stuff on it?

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=99586


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fuck yes. An awesome Christian/Regal. 

How many ECW eps were there in 2010, though? Like, 7? Pretty sure it dies in February.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah, 7 I think. I'll get 2009 soon too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It does. The Christian/Zeke match that closes ECW's last brodcast is killer, though.

The BORK side is done  I base it on the ratings I gave each PPV, with the actual rankings being also based on personal preference. If anything I only rewatched the match with The Hardys at Judgment Day 2002, which was decent for what it was. BEHOLD THE LIST:



> BROCK LESNAR:
> 1. vs. John Cena, Extreme Rules 2012 (*****)
> 2. vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004 (****3/4)
> 3. vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2002 (****1/2)
> ...


:brock


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I watched World War 3 97 last night.

What to say? I've only seen one WW3 match before and it's because the gimmick has always sounded so dumb to me. I decided to give it a watch based on the card anyway.

The undercard is pretty fun with Guerrero/Mysterio, Steiners/Blue Bloods, Flair/Hennig, Nagata/Dragon, and Saturn/Inferno. Unfortunately I was distracted during Guerrero/Mysterio, but Steiners/Blue Bloods was a glorified squash and Flair/Hennig was nothing special outside of the leg work (and an awesome chair spot at the end). 

I'm sure WW3 was a spectacle live, but looking back it just seems like such a wasted opportunity. 60 guys spread over 3 rings and there's little focus on anyone until 50 have been eliminated. It's basically just a blur of punches, kicks, and quick camera changes. Several points in the match the feed is split over three screens and most of the action is still missed. Guys like Jericho, Mysterio, Regal, Finlay, Guerrero, Benoit, Malenko are all in the match as nothing more than filler. It's hard to pin-point a single highlight until the rings are cleared, and by that point it boils down to typical NWO booking (which I'm completely over in 2013). Like I said, probably a lot of fun live, but all I could think throughout the match was, "man, the RR is a _way_ better gimmick". My favourite moment of the match was probably the camera panning over the arena as the three rings were filled right at the beginning.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This thread is becoming very lively recently. Fuckers keep having discussions when I'm not here.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HEY STARBUCK, thoughts on ecw 2009-2010


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Don't have any. Barely watched it 8*D


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Why not?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Didn't really find any of the guys on there interesting character wise I guess. 2009 was when I watched Raw and SD every week. I'd watch ECW the odd time and catch their PPV offering. Other than that, I missed most of it. 2010 is when my interest in WWE as a whole started to dip. I'd catch Raw but didn't watch SD every week like I used to.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

For my sins, I've just sat through the elimination chamber match from December to Dismember, but I noticed something peculiar about the finish.

Just before Lashley hits the spear, Show lifts him for a powerslam and Tazz says "Show's going to hit him with Lesnar's own move!!". I know they tried to mould Lashley as the next Brock, so that little slip of the tongue made me smile.

As for the match itself, it's the worst chamber by a significant distance. A dysfunctional, disjointed, badly-paced mess that even talents like Show, Punk & RVD couldn't salvage it. It even had a hysterical Paul Heyman at ringside, which usually adds an interesting element (Brock vs Taker/Brock vs Hogan), but failed this time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SD in 09 kinda reminded me of the SD Six days, where every night some guys would deliever great matches. ECW 09 is kinda the same - the roster may have not looked good on paper but the wrestling was superb.

Continuing my 2000-2012 PPV match project with two big names currently:



> ALBERTO DEL RIO
> 1. vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011 (****1/2)
> 2. vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011 (****1/4)
> 3. vs. CM Punk vs. The Miz, TLC 2011 (****)
> ...


Funny how Punk is ADR's best AND worst PPV opponent. And:



> DANIEL BRYAN
> 1. vs. CM Punk, Over The Limit 2012 (****3/4)
> 2. vs. Sheamus, Extreme Rules 2012 (****3/4)
> 3. vs. Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010 (****3/4)
> ...


Other than the Hell No title defenses and the less than 20 second debacles, D-Bry getting no under *** matches. DAT WORKRATE. :bryan


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I swear everytime I post a review in here Cal disagrees with me on it, so I'm waiting for him to pop in and talk about how great that tag match was.  I know he'll feel the same on Bret/Shawn though.
> 
> Hahaha. Del Rio vs. Barrett! What a contest!


Don't worry, I have never watched SS 92 in full. Only seen Bret/Shawn, which is like a 50% version of their Iron Man match... only WORSE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 03/02/2009

Finlay is great early on. Not like he gets worst or anything, but SHUT UP. Swagger goes to the mat, Finlay counters him... but instead of staying in control, lets Swagger up. And then SLAPS him in the face in hopes of turning this into a brawl where he'll have the advantage. All the while he has a smile on his face.

Swagger is getting frustrated as fuck that old man Dave is OUT WRESTLING him. And for anyone aware of Finlay's past, it is by no means stupid or anything, like say, HBK out wrestling Kurt Angle on the mat . That match (WM) had a similar story to open, with HBK trying to frustrate Angle by out wrestling him... only here its actually believable because Finlay can hang with the best of them legitimately. And Swagger does an awesome job with his facials and body language and shit to show that Finlay is GETTING TO HIM. GOTTEN TO.

Transition into Swagger's control segment is sweet. Swagger manages to hit an Irish Whip into the corner, using his power which is something he DOES have over Finlay. Finlay crashes HARD into the middle turnbuckle, hiring his back and his arm. Looked painful, and Finlay really sells it, going so far as to call the referee over to check on him. I get far too giddy over shit like this lol :lmao.

In the end Hornswoggle gets some revenge for Swagger attacking him last week, and Finlay capitalises and is the FIRST person to beat Jack Swagger!

Great match. Opening part with Finlay out wrestling Swagger looked great, transition spot was awesome, and Swagger did great on offence. Just behind the Swagger/Hardy match for me as far as ECW MOTY goes.

Rating: ***3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just a quick question, was there any mention of Goldberg/Lesnar on the Raw after WMXX?

Not expecting a minutes silence or anything lol...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Just a quick question, was there any mention of Goldberg/Lesnar on the Raw after WMXX?
> 
> Not expecting a minutes silence or anything lol...


Don't think so. They would have been too busy discussing the controversy in the WHC match where nobody won and the title disappeared and wouldn't come back until SummerSlam when Orton finds it in a bin.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Kane-UK said:


> For my sins, I've just sat through the elimination chamber match from December to Dismember, but I noticed something peculiar about the finish.
> 
> Just before Lashley hits the spear, Show lifts him for a powerslam and Tazz says "Show's going to hit him with Lesnar's own move!!". I know they tried to mould Lashley as the next Brock, so that little slip of the tongue made me smile.
> 
> As for the match itself, it's the worst chamber by a significant distance. A dysfunctional, disjointed, badly-paced mess that even talents like Show, Punk & RVD couldn't salvage it. It even had a hysterical Paul Heyman at ringside, which usually adds an interesting element (Brock vs Taker/Brock vs Hogan), but failed this time.


Test's elbow drop off the Chamber to RVD onto a chair being the highlight of the match.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

XWT registrations finally open :mark: downloading a bunch of packs. What years of Superstars/WWECW are worth grabbing?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> XWT registrations finally open :mark: downloading a bunch of packs. What years of Superstars/WWECW are worth grabbing?


ECW 2009 . Superstars 09 too. And 2010.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Holy fucking God, was this difficult to compete. I don't think the number will be topped - Kane competed in ONE HUNDRED AND TWELVE PPV matches from 2000 through 2012. Wow. BEHOLD THE LIST:



> 1. w/Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001 (*****)
> 2. vs. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Booker T vs. Rob Van Dam, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
> 3. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2001 (****1/2)
> 4. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004 (****1/2)
> ...


Poor guy had no more than 7 DUD's, but still, could be far worse. :kane


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

His match with Khali fromWM 23 was decent. *3/4 rating I'll say


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There's one DUD and one 1/4* match on your list that I have closer to *** :lmao. I like Kane more than other people tend to though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Z said:


> There's one DUD and one 1/4* match on your list that I have closer to *** :lmao. I like Kane more than other people tend to though.


I would have assumed it was the Chavo squash @ Mania XXIV which you gave ******* on your 437th watch. :lol

In terms of bad chamber matches, D2D isn't even the worst chamber match in 2006  .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chavo match gets 1/4* from me. GOAT Chavo match .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Chavo Guerrero vs Kurt "WRESTLING MACHINE" Angle in a STEEL CAGE match. GOAT match. Eight stars.

On a HAPPIER note, Wrestlemania X-8 STARZ plz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Just a quick question, was there any mention of Goldberg/Lesnar on the Raw after WMXX?
> 
> Not expecting a minutes silence or anything lol...


You wanna ask about Raw/SD episodes from the RA era, I'm always here to answer. 

I don't recall anything about Goldberg being said but on Smackdown, GM Paul Heyman announced at the start of the show that Lesnar was no longer part of the SD roster which the stupid crowd cheered. I understand he's a heel, but his departure was a disaster, dammit!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrusstleMenea 18:

RVD/Regal **3/4
Christian/DDP ***1/4
Maven/Goldust 1/2*
Angle/Kane ***
Undertaker/Flair ****1/4
Edge/Booker **
Austin/Hall **
4 way tag ***
Rock/Hogan ***1/2
Women **
HHH/Jericho **3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching Mania 18 now and just got through with the first two matches, pretty impressed thus far I must say.

When going back and watching/reviewing all of these Wrestlemanias I stumbled upon perhaps the most overrated show of all time, and as a matter of fact it's universally considered to be a top 5 MANIA amongst the casuals when literally 90 percent of it sucks balls.

I still can't get over the fact that Rock is the WWE champion, I seriously can't wait for Cena to end this nightmare once and for all....

*58 Days ? Is that what it is ?*

Who would have thought that CENA of all people would save us FFS. :cena2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching Mania 18 now and just got through with the first two matches, pretty impressed thus far I must say.
> 
> When going back and watching/reviewing all of these Wrestlemanias I stumbled upon perhaps the most overrated show of all time, and as a matter of fact it's universally considered to be a top 5 MANIA amongst the casuals when literally 90 percent of it sucks balls.
> 
> ...


Get ready for Cena to beat Punk numerous times after he wins the title. Cena coming to collect his wins back. Time to pay up, Punker. :cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I realized that had to come someday. The ultimate preference would be to keep these two away from each other until Wrestlemania XXX somehow with Cena coming out on top there in a unification match (seriously isn't that farfetched at ALL), but I'm calling a Cena win @ the Chicago PPV in June and I'll be back to screaming "FUCK YOU CENA" very loudly at my television screen.

Ever since ROCK came back in 2011 I feel like I've joined the dark side ; rooting for Cena at every single PPV besides his obvious bouts with guys like Punk and Lesnar. I don't care if Cena holds that thing for two years to be honest, as long as he beats Rock @ Wrestlemania XXIX. It's his year, and I feel all the Rock marks should accept it by now 

Everything leads back to :cena2 .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I agree with KingOfKings, Cena is definitely going over Punk at the Chicago PPV. Sad but true. Though I would prefer they hold off with that match until WMXXX like you said, but seems unlikely.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> You wanna ask about Raw/SD episodes from the RA era, I'm always here to answer.
> 
> I don't recall anything about Goldberg being said but on Smackdown, GM Paul Heyman announced at the start of the show that Lesnar was no longer part of the SD roster which the stupid crowd cheered. I understand he's a heel, but his departure was a disaster, dammit!


Thanks for that mate, just wondered if there was any disclosure on the whole affair, yeah fuck the crowd lol, they/we missed out big time before his return last year...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Usually for Mania season I start HEAVILY supporting the guys I wanna see go over in the main events, such as last year when I went all Cena-crazy prior to his match against Rock, HAITCH crazy for his match against Taker, PUNK crazy for his match against Jericho, and.... SIGH.... Danielson crazy for his match against Sheamus which me and my friends actually missed and thought was going to be featured late in the card..... UGH.

If I have to choose between Rock or CENA , it's CENA by a mile honestly, because you know...... Cena actually has the ability to entertain me


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I realized that had to come someday. The ultimate preference would be to keep these two away from each other until Wrestlemania XXX somehow with Cena coming out on top there in a unification match (seriously isn't that farfetched at ALL), but I'm calling a Cena win @ the Chicago PPV in June and I'll be back to screaming "FUCK YOU CENA" very loudly at my television screen.
> 
> Ever since ROCK came back in 2011 I feel like I've joined the dark side ; rooting for Cena at every single PPV besides his obvious bouts with guys like Punk and Lesnar. I don't care if Cena holds that thing for two years to be honest, as long as he beats Rock @ Wrestlemania XXIX. It's his year, and I feel all the Rock marks should accept it by now
> 
> Everything leads back to :cena2 .


Well said. Even back in the Attitude era, when I was a teenager, Rock was never a favorite of mine. Don't get me wrong, he cracked me up a good number of times back then with his promos and he was very entertaining. But I don't like this current version of Dwayne Johnson at all. It's like a hybrid of Dwayne Johnson with alittle bit of Rock mixed in there somewhere. It's awful. And it's a shame the writers think this is the way he should act on screen. I'd still take this version of Rock over Cena, though. There is nothing Cena can do at this point to entertain me. It's been 8 years.

As for Cena, after he wins at WM, I don't know exactly who he will feud with. But I wouldn't be shocked if he feuds with Punk immediately. Ziggler will be in the mix for the WHC, if not already the WHC after WM. Henry will be involved with WHC, I would think, ditto Big Show. Del Rio is a face. Lesnar will be gone again right after WM. Taker and Triple H will be off TV, too. So, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's Punk/Cena right after WM, or if not right after, perhaps in the early Fall. Then perhaps, Cena/Taker at WM30, with Taker retiring after that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crazy to think just how DIFFERENT WWE would be today had Brock never left. Likely no JBL (meaning no JBL/Eddie ), probably wouldn't have gotten Cena AND Batista as big stars (I'd guess they'd still push Cena, but move him to Raw earlier, maybe to take down Evolution and be the one to win the WHC from HHH at WM 21 or something) and so much more. Plus the ripple effect over the years would probably have meant no Punk being as big, Edge probably wouldn't have done as well, Orton likely wouldn't have been where he has...

Actually some of that doesn't sound too bad .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

According to both Trips and Lesnar in two seperate interviews, Lesnar-HHH was going to main event Wrestlemania XXI with Lesnar going to RAW and Cena probably being pushed on the Smackdown brand. I don't know about you, but that fucking sounds AWESOME. Can you imagine Triple H vs Brock Lesnar in the cell in 2005 ? I'm marking out just thinking about it. GLAD we got Trips-BIG DAVE though because that rocked.

I'm thinking they do a bait and switch kind of thing after Mania ; Henry loses and then suddenly shows up on RAW and destroys Cena leading to a no holds barred match or something @ Extreme Rules, kind of how Bryan was wrestling Sheamus for the WHC @ ER last year and taking on Punk for the WWE championship @ OTL.

I actually wouldn't be one bit surprised if Punk took time off after Mania for a month or two, the guy came back early from a bad knee just to make Mania season, if he hadn't have held the belt I'm sure he would have been out far longer... Besides, who the hell is there for him to feud with ? If he's not competing for the WWE title, he's restoring prestige to the WHC IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't mind Punk going back babyface following WM. Do something with Heyman paying more attention to Brock or some shit, implying that Heyman doesn't see much worth in Punk now he's no longer the champ or something. Lesnar can F-5 Punk to officially break them up the night after WM or something, then Lesnar can leave for a few months allowing Punk to build himself back up as a babyface again, facing HENRY on PPV maybe (with Henry as champ would be sweet), then going into SummerSlam against Lesnar with or without a belt.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If we got PUNK-BROCK .... Oh man it would make up for 99 percent of the horrendous booking that has been going on as of late, and since I believe Punk works as a face pretty damn awesome, it could be a great match with Punk outsmarting BROCK and then Brock effectively ripping Punk into shreds.

If you look at Punk throughout his WWE career, the main theme would be evolution. Punk's character evolves a few times a year and it's only a matter of time before he gets back to being a top babyface in the company (although they'd need to turn a few guys heel first).

I've only had a few dream matches over the last few years that were actually possible ; HHH-Punk , HHH-Lesnar , and Punk-Lesnar. If I get all three within a two year span I'm convinced that the wrestling gods DO in fact exist. I LOVED HHH-Punk and especially HHH-Lesnar, so god knows how much I'd love Punk-Lesnar.

If Lesnar-GAME happens @ Mania, I'm rooting for Lesnar for the simple fact that he needs it far, FAR more than Game does. You can have it be for control of the WWE or something, with Heyman becoming GM and taking over RAW with Punk and Lesnar by his side, leading to the Undertaker "saving" the WWE @ XXX against Lesnar. FUCK. Fantasy booking.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW 10/02/2009

The "forgotten" match between them. Most forget that they wrestled before the awesomely epic 24/02 match. But they did! And it was the same night Christian returned. its christian. Gotta love the enthusiasm from the commentators. They HAD to have been told to play it down because Striker marks out for shite like Booker T. He probably wanted to blow his load the moment he saw Christian. Poor guy.

Both men have something to prove here tonight. Christian just made his return and needs to make an IMPACT following his last few years in IMPACT lol. Swagger suffered his first loss the previous week and he needs to get back to winning to show that he's the MAN on ECW, and to build momentum going into NWO on Sunday against Finlay, the man who beat him.

Hornswoggle and Finlay show up for commentary. Hornswoggle is more coherent than Booker T. And yes, this is before Santa granted him the ability to talk.

Match is very much back and forth rather than Swagger getting in any significant time in control, which I'm fine with. Perhaps he's off his game a little following last week, plus as I mentioned, Christian is out to prove shit now that he's returned. Neither men are wanting to lose any kind of control. Some sweet shit here too. Swagger press slamming Christian over the ropes to the floor was great. Christian's tornado DDT was awesome. A very competitive match overall.

Swagger tries to make use of an exposed turnbuckle like when he won the belt, but Hornswoggle and Finlay distract him allowing Christian to hit a Killswitch, and Swagger loses 2 weeks in a row!

Good match, but not even close to the level of their next one. Probably their "worst" bout, and not even close to being bad lol.

Rating: ***


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I can't believe that I'll also root for Cena. Not at WM (I only hope for a heel turn there) but afterwards, specially if he gets his well deserved return victory against Punk in whatever that Chicago PPV is. I'm glad Cena has done so many jobs against Punk, the horrific era of Raw is Punk is now over and maybe Punk will return the favor to Cena big time like he should.

Also Punk/Lesnar would suck because neither should ever be faces, specially not Punk. Even if Lesnar would set Punk on fire, I can't root for him. They tried the "sympathetic" root during the Jericho feud and personally, it made me like Punk less and less and support Jericho more every passing week. Funny thing is, I hate alcohol too. Now if Lesnar/Punk would be a squash match for Lesnar to throw Punk around, I would LOVE it.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Ratings on the never ending Sheamus/Del Rio feud please. I seem to recall a few decent PPV matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only reason I want Cena to beat Rock is so the title doesn't get vacated after Mania or some stupid crap like that. Rock has to lose the title to someone before he leaves, and sadly Cena's pretty much locked in. The only slight glimmer of hope is if Punk is somehow added to the match to make it a triple threat and takes the title, but that hope may just be crushed in a week when he starts his feud with Taker. 

And even if he did win the title and Rock/Cena still happened (which would make Cena's Rumble win pointless, but just bare with me) and I could root Rock, if Taker/Punk happens, I wouldn't know who to root for. On one hand, while I don't want the streak to ever end, Taker winning the title if he's not going to stick around is the same problem I have with Rock winning, and just because it's Taker doesn't mean I don't have a problem with it. The title shouldn't be vacated because a part-timer needed to win in the title match at Mania and then go back on a year-long vacation. On the other hand, Punk ending the streak doesn't sit well with me either. Now while I'd be fine with him ending the streak over HBK and HHH from the last few years, I'd still rather not see it as that would mean Taker/Cena wouldn't happen, and that's the one match I absolutely want to see at Mania before Taker's all said and done.

But yeah, chances are that won't happen anyway so I don't need to worry.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena is winning the title. It's a lock.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Daniel97 said:


> Ratings on the never ending Sheamus/Del Rio feud please. I seem to recall a few decent PPV matches.


MITB: **3/4
Summerslam: **1/4
NOC: **

All i seem to remember at the moment.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I liked Sheamus/Del Rio from NoC. Didn't see the others.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I'm clinging to that last glimmer of hope, because as of one week from now we should know EXACTLY what we're getting @ Mania. Still think WWE is going to pull some sort of swerve to one of the "planned" matches but that's just optimism at this point.

The positive of Rock/Cena II is that Rock is FINALLY going to put somebody over after he has pretty much beaten everybody that there is to beat in the industry... Actually wait... The ultimate swerve ; Punk wins back the title and we get Punk/Cena and Rock/Taker because Rock needs the streak to validate himself as the undisputed GOAT, it makes a ton of sense when you think about it 

AHHH the desperate thoughts of somebody who wants unpredictability.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Feeling like heating up some discussion before MANIA' SEASON officially starts, so let's throw some comparisons out shall we ? From a pure work standpoint, who (opinion obviously) is the better worker (currently of course) of these groupings ?
> 
> A : CM Punk or Daniel Bryan
> B : John Cena or Sheamus
> ...


Purely IMO,

Bryan, Cena, Ziggler, don't know, Del Rio, Cesaro, Ryback.


Daniel97 said:


> Ratings on the never ending Sheamus/Del Rio feud please. I seem to recall a few decent PPV matches.


Eh, that was a worthless feud. Around two stars seems right, I wouldn't be able to tell you a lick about these matches though. Except for that they were incredibly boring.

On Rock/Cena II, I hope they can learn from their first encounter and give us a better match. Also wish the same for Punk/Rock II.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

> Yeah I'm clinging to that last glimmer of hope, because as of one week from now we should know EXACTLY what we're getting @ Mania. Still think WWE is going to pull some sort of swerve to one of the "planned" matches but that's just optimism at this point.
> 
> The positive of Rock/Cena II is that Rock is FINALLY going to put somebody over after he has pretty much beaten everybody that there is to beat in the industry... Actually wait... The ultimate swerve ; Punk wins back the title and we get Punk/Cena and Rock/Taker because Rock needs the streak to validate himself as the undisputed GOAT, it makes a ton of sense when you think about it
> 
> AHHH the desperate thoughts of somebody who wants unpredictability.


Taker/Rock, and Punk/Cena for the title would be very interesting, but how would they pull it off? Rock going into a streak match losing clean to Punk wouldn't look to good. Punk would have to beat Rock in some unclean fashion. They could have Taker cost Rock the belt, but that might end up turning Taker heel or tweener at the least, and while I don't have too much of a problem with Taker being heel, you have to wonder how the fans would react to him beating Rock at Mania. The Mania crowd may still cheer him and he wrestles like he would as a face, but only during the build up he's a heel. Or Punk wins in dirty fashion, Rock gets one and only one title rematch on Raw, and he has Punk beat, but somehow Punk still escapes with the title (I'm thinking something like Edge/Batista Vengeance 2007). Rock then moves onto Taker the next week he's there.

Meh, I'm speculating too much over something that isn't going to happen.

Edit: Although I wonder, if this did happen, if we'd ever have to hear Cena go on a stupid tirade against Punk saying "YOU COST THESE FANS THE ROCK VS. JOHN CENA II, YOU'RE A BASTARD"blahblahblah.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Daniel97 said:


> Ratings on the never ending Sheamus/Del Rio feud please. I seem to recall a few decent PPV matches.


MITB - **3/4
SSlam - ***
NOC - ***1/2

Ratings for all of HAITCH HAITCH HAITCH's WM matches?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I'm clinging to that last glimmer of hope, because as of one week from now we should know EXACTLY what we're getting @ Mania. Still think WWE is going to pull some sort of swerve to one of the "planned" matches but that's just optimism at this point.
> 
> The positive of Rock/Cena II is that Rock is FINALLY going to put somebody over after he has pretty much beaten everybody that there is to beat in the industry... Actually wait... The ultimate swerve ; Punk wins back the title and we get Punk/Cena and Rock/Taker because Rock needs the streak to validate himself as the undisputed GOAT, it makes a ton of sense when you think about it
> 
> AHHH the desperate thoughts of somebody who wants unpredictability.


That's just your wishful thinking like how Punk beating ROCK at the Royal Rumble UNhappened. 

You, my friend, would be a terrible booker. 

EDIT: HunterMania

vs Ultimate Warrior - WM12 - 0 (don't hate him to rate it highly)
Fatal Four Way - WM2000 - ★★★½
vs Undertaker - WM17 - ★★★¾
vs Jericho - WM18 - ★★¼
vs Booker - WM19 - ★★★¼
vs Benoit vs HBK - WM20 - ★★★★★
vs Batista - WM21 - ★★★
vs Cena - WM22 - ★★★★
vs Orton vs Cena - WM24 - ★★★¾
vs Orton - WM25 - ★★¼
vs Sheamus - WM26 - ★★¾
vs Undertaker - WM27 - ★★★¾
vs Undertaker - WM28 - ★★★★½


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH's Mania matches:

vs. Rock vs. Foley vs. Big Show WM16- ***1/2
vs. Undertaker WM17- ****
vs. Jericho WM18- **3/4
vs. Booker T WM19- ***1/2 (his second best match all year imo)
vs. Benoit vs. HBK WM20- ****1/2
vs. Batista WM21- **
vs. Cena WM22- ***
vs. Cena vs. Orton WM24- ***3/4
vs. Orton WM25- **1/2
vs. Sheamus WM26- ***1/4
vs. Undertaker WM27- ***1/2
vs. Undertaker WM28- ****

Edit: vs. Warrior WM12- ***********


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH WM:

Vs Warrior WM 12 - DUD
Vs Goldust WM 13 - Haven't seen it in years
Vs Owen WM 14 - ***1/2
Vs Kane WM 15 - **1/2
Vs Show Vs Foley Vs Rock WM 16 - ****
Vs Undertaker WM 17 - ****1/4
Vs Jericho WM 18 - **3/4
Vs Booker WM 19 - ****
Vs Benoit Vs HBK WM 20 - ****3/4
Vs Batista WM 21 - **3/4
Vs Cena WM 22 - ****
Vs Cena Vs Orton WM 24 - ***1/4
Vs Orton WM 25 - **
Vs Sheamus WM 26 - **3/4
Vs Undertaker WM 27 - ****3/4
Vs Undertaker WM 28 - ****3/4


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Cena WM22 :mark:


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

:HHH

*WrestleMania XV*
vs Kane **1/2
*WrestleMania XVI*
vs Rock vs Foley vs Big Show ***1/4
*WrestleMania X-Seven*
vs Undertaker ***3/4
*WrestleMania X-8*
vs Jericho **1/2
*WrestleMania XIX*
vs Booker T ***1/4
*WrestleMania XX*
vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels *****
*WrestleMania XXI*
vs Batista ***
*WrestleMania XXII*
vs John Cena *** 3/4
*WrestleMania XXIV*
vs Cena vs Orton ****
*WrestleMania XV*
vs Orton ***
*WrestleMania XVI*
vs Sheamus ***
*WrestleMania XVII*
vs Undertaker ***3/4
*WrestleMania XVIII*
vs Undertaker *****


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Triple H 'Mania matches that I watched:

WrestleMania X7 - Triple H vs. The Undertaker *(****1/4)*
WrestleMania 18 - Triple H vs. Chris Jericho *(**3/4)*
WrestleMania 19 - Triple H vs. Booker T *(***1/4)*
WrestleMania 20 - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels *(*****)*
WrestleMania 21 - Triple H vs. Batista *(***1/4)*
WrestleMania 22 - Triple H vs. John Cena *(****)*
WrestleMania 24 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. John Cena *(***1/2)*
WrestleMania 26 - Triple H vs. Sheamus *(***)*
WrestleMania 27 - Triple H vs. The Undertaker *(***3/4)*
WrestleMania 28 - Triple H vs. The Undertaker *(****3/4)*

Never watched vs. Warrior, I'd have to rewatch WrestleMania 2000 for his four way match and I wasn't watching the product at the time to see HHH/Orton, but I heard it was a let down and similar to HHH/Jericho from 18.



greendayedgehead said:


> On Rock/Cena II, I hope they can learn from their first encounter and give us a better match. Also wish the same for Punk/Rock II.


I hope they learn with Cena/Rock II and give them less time. The restholds brought down the match IMO. If it was 10 minutes shorter with less restholds, I would have enjoyed the match much more.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My ratings on DA GAME WM:

WM 12 vs Warrior: DUD
WM 13 vs Goldust: **1/4
WM 14 vs Owen: ***3/4
WM 15 vs Kane: **1/2
WM 16 vs Rock vs Foley vs Show: ***1/4
WM 17 vs Taker: ****1/4
WM 18 vs Jericho: **3/4
WM 19 vs Booker: ***
WM 20 vs HBK vs Benoit: *****
WM 21 vs Batista: ***
WM 22 vs Cena: ***3/4
WM 24 vs Orton vs Cena: ***1/2
WM 25 vs Orton: **1/4
WM 26 vs Sheamus: ***1/4
WM 27 vs Taker: ****1/2
WM 28 vs Taker: *****

Now doing the TAKER portion of my 2000-2012 project


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Wut about JAWN SHEENA?

WM20 vs. Show - **
WM21 vs. JBL - DUD (waste of time)
WM22 vs. Trips - *** 1/2
WM23 vs. Michaels - **** 1/4
WM 24 vs. Orton vs. Trips - *** 1/4
WM 25 vs. Edge vs. Show - ** 3/4
WM 26 vs. Batista - *** 1/2
WM 27 vs. The Miz - 1/4*
WM 28 vs. The Rock - *** 1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM20 vs. Show - *1/2
WM21 vs. JBL - DUD
WM22 vs. Trips - ***
WM23 vs. Michaels - ****
WM 24 vs. Orton vs. Trips - ***3/4
WM 25 vs. Edge vs. Show - ***
WM 26 vs. Batista - ***3/4
WM 27 vs. The Miz - 1/2*
WM 28 vs. The Rock - ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM20 vs. Show - **
WM21 vs. JBL - DUD (waste of time)
WM22 vs. Trips - ****
WM23 vs. Michaels - ***3/4
WM 24 vs. Orton vs. Trips - ***1/4
WM 25 vs. Edge vs. Show - ***
WM 26 vs. Batista - ***3/4
WM 27 vs. The Miz - LOL
WM 28 vs. The Rock - **


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WM20 vs. Show - **
WM21 vs. JBL - DUD
WM22 vs. Trips - ****1/4
WM23 vs. Michaels - ****
WM 24 vs. Orton vs. Trips - **3/4
WM 25 vs. Edge vs. Show - **
WM 26 vs. Batista - ****
WM 27 vs. The Miz - DUD
WM 28 vs. The Rock - **1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I haven't rewatched Cena/Rock for my MANIA project yet (still on 18, just finished with GOAT/Taker) but I've seen it about 7 or 8 times in the past year which is un-fucking-believeable so I might as well give you my opinion ; the very first time I saw it live I threw four stars at it and thought it was a classic Mania main event with shades of Rock-Hogan thrown in there, a once in a lifetime match (oh wait) that we'd be telling out kids about (if we have any)... Second watch comes along and I drop it slightly to three and three quarters because something just didn't feel right... Then I watched it again and all hell broke loose.....

I thought the length was horrendous, the pacing being downright BAD, and the moves executed within the match to be extremely sloppy. I thought there was no story within the match other than a forced epic showdown between Rock and Cena trying to once again recreate Rock-Hogan (yeah I know, I'm a contradictory motherfucker) and I decided to throw a measley two and a half snowflakes towards it, putting it amongst the Yoko-Bret matches when it comes to WM Main events.

Then one day me and my girlfriend watched it, and DAMN was she interested in the match. I've watched quite a few matches with her such as Foley-Orton , Punk-Cena, etc.. but she loved THIS the most and it got to me..... This IS a pretty damn good match. I started looking past the pacing and into subtle things such as Rock calling back to his Rocky Maivia days with the crossbody attempt, and Cena's overconfidence leading to his demise at the end of the match. I wouldn't throw a classic rating at it obviously because of the LENGTH, but give Rock-Cena II 15 minutes and it can get four stars , I guran-damn-tee it TBH. Btw, I throw **** 1/2* @ Rock-Cena. We'll see how this turns out in a week when I rage and give it a DUD.

........ MUST RESIST TEMPTATION TO ADD TO TRIPLE H DISCUSSION.... DON'T WANT TO GIVE AWAY ANY RATINGZ.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Behold the list:



> THE UNDERTAKER
> 1. vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25 (*****)
> 2. vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 28 (*****)
> 3. vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 26 (*****)
> ...


DEM ***** MATCHES.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NOW CAL... Do as I did and critique DAT LIST as this thread's resident Undertaker/Chavo guru  .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Just saw CM Punk/Jericho Steel Cage in October 08.

Pretty good if you disregard the stupid fucking steel cage door shenanigans. Will write up a real review when i'm free to do so but for now. 

***3/4*


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WM20 vs. Show - **1/2
WM21 vs. JBL - *
WM22 vs. Triple H - ***1/2
WM23 vs. Michaels - *****
WM 24 vs. Orton vs. Trips - ***
WM 25 vs. Edge vs. Show - ***1/2
WM 26 vs. Batista - ****
WM 27 vs. The Miz - **
WM 28 vs. The Rock - ***1/2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

ATF said:


> Behold the list:
> 
> 
> 
> DEM ***** MATCHES.


Is it just me or does that list not have HBK/Taker HIAC? 

Ew.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You know, I just don't have the energy. Disagree with a lot of it though, a lot just 1/2* or so, but some major ones.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> Is it just me or does that list not have HBK/Taker HIAC?
> 
> Ew.


Because he only did from 2000 onwards .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Is it just me, or is Taker-HHH @ Wrestlemania XXVII not on there ?

Taker-Edge TLC @ ******  ?


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

WM 20 vs. Show - *3/4
WM 21 vs. JBL - **
WM 22 vs. HHH - ***1/4
WM 23 vs. HBK - ****
WM 24 vs. HHH vs. Orton - ***1/2
WM 25 vs. Show vs. Edge - ***1/2
WM 26 vs. Batista - ***3/4
WM 27 vs. Miz - 1/2*
WM 28 vs. Rock - ***


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> You know, I just don't have the energy. Disagree with a lot of it though, a lot just 1/2* or so, but some major ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Because he only did from 2000 onwards .


Ah, ok. Whew, was gonna say...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

After seeing that Taker list and wanting to make a Taker list do cleanse myself of that disgusting piece of crap list (well, it's not THAT bad, but some choices are very LOLworthy). 

So here's some real ratings of Taker's WM matches:

vs. Jimmy Snuka- *****
vs. The Undertaker vs. Jake Roberts- *****
vs. Giant Gonzales- *****
vs. King Kong Bundy- *****
vs. Diesel- *****
vs. Sid- *****
vs. Kane (WM14)- *****
vs. Bossman- ******
vs. HHH (WM17)- *****
vs. Flair- *****
vs. Show and Albert- *****
vs. Kane (WM20)- *****
vs. Orton- *****
vs. Mark Henry- *****
vs. Batista- *****
vs. Edge- *****1/2 
vs. HBK (WM25)- *****
vs. HBK (WM26)- *****
vs. HHH (WM27)- *****
vs. HHH (WM28)- *****

I feel better now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> After seeing that Taker list and wanting to make a Taker list do cleanse myself of that disgusting piece of crap list (well, it's not THAT bad, but some choices are very LOLworthy).
> 
> So here's some real ratings of Taker's WM matches:
> 
> ...


Don't even joke about that one. Anything that is not Rock-Austin @ Wrestlemania XV is NOT to be joked about, and as a matter of fact it's a disgrace. UGH, SHOCKING I know.....

Taker's worst match. DEAD SERIOUS  .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Joke about what? Taker/Bossman is totally 6 stars.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> After seeing that Taker list and wanting to make a Taker list do cleanse myself of that disgusting piece of crap list (well, it's not THAT bad, but some choices are very LOLworthy).
> 
> So here's some real ratings of Taker's WM matches:
> 
> ...


:lmao EVERYTHING IS 5 STARS! (well done)

DAT TAKER.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Seriously, it drives me nuts how the Gonzales match is shit on as being Taker's worst match ever when it's not even his worst Wrestlemania match, not even fucking close actually. I refuse to give Taker/Boss Man a DUD, NO, 0, or any of those ratings. I need to make up a word to describe how I feel about that match honestly.

It's SO BAD, but it's not hilariously bad like most of GAME's 2003 work.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Seriously, it drives me nuts how the Gonzales match is shit on as being Taker's worst match ever when it's not even his worst Wrestlemania match, not even fucking close actually. I refuse to give Taker/Boss Man a DUD, NO, 0, or any of those ratings. I need to make up a word to describe how I feel about that match honestly.
> 
> It's SO BAD, but it's not hilariously bad like most of GAME's 2003 work.


You just mad Bossman had a better cell match with Taker than your boy Paul.

And Paul Bearer on the outside during the match is hilarious (not Paul Heyman hilarious though).

Edit: Oh, and on topic of Taker at Mania, I just had a vision of a match which will draw and be star rated at levels so high, the likes of which we've never seen. The only man who could possibly end The Undertaker's streak is our intellectual savior, the man with a geometrically proportional beard, the man who's our unwilling hero, Damien Sandow. He's the only credible threat to the streak left.


Actually, on a serious note, I don't see Sandow discussed at all in this thread, so I may as well ask, what does everyone think of his work in the ring? Obviously he hasn't gotten to perform at a big level yet so it may be hard to judge, but I think he's great and will produce quality matches and classics throughout his career if WWE really push him as a top heel. I love his aggressive style and how his moves and mannerisms in matches compliment his character, like the Russian leg sweep into the elbow of disdain. His bumping is great as well, and I can only imagine his selling is great as well, though I can't recall him ever having to sell an injury or limb work or anything for a lengthy period of time in a match, if at all.

He's imo probably the best all-around talent WWE has right now next to Punk, from in-ring work, to mic work, to character, to charisma, he just seems to have it all except a main event push, which should come in time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I would buy PUNK ending it  .

unk2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Is it just me or does that list not have HBK/Taker HIAC?
> 
> Ew.


That list is only from 2000 through 2012.

EDIT~Cal already let you know, sorry for inconvenience


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Top 5 Jericho matches?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Number One : Fully Loaded 2000 vs TRIPLE H (Last Man Standing) : *******
Number Two : RAW 2001 W/Chris Benoit vs TRIPLE H/Steve Austin : ***** 3/4*

Everything Else :jpl .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 Jericho matches:

(****3/4)
1) vs. HBK WM19
2) vs. Benoit RR01
(****1/2)
3) vs. HBK NM08
4) vs. HHH FL00
5) vs. Rock NM01


How's about top 5 RAWK matches?:

1) vs. The Great Gonzales I
2) vs. The Great Gonzales II
3) vs. Dark Koopatrol...

oh wait, wrong Rawk...

(*****)
1) vs. Austin WM17
(****1/2)
2) vs. HHH BL00
3) vs. Taker vs. Angle Vengeance 2002
4) vs. Jericho NM01
5) vs. Austin WM19


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

5. Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero- Full Brawl 97'
4. Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit- Royal Rumble 01
3. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels No Mercy 2008
2. Chris JEricho vs Shawn Michaels WM XIX
1. Chris JEricho vs Triple H Fully Loaded 2000


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WWE-only:
vs HHH, Fully Loaded 2000
vs HBK, No Mercy 2008
vs Mysterio, The Bash 2009
w/Benoit vs Powertrip, Raw 2001
vs HBK, WM 19 (only off the top of my head)

Best overall years for these guys:

HAITCH HAITCH HAITCH
CEE ME PANK
Randy MACHO MAN Savage
Bret Hart
KRIS BEN-U-AH
DA RAWK
DA UNDATAKAH
JAWN CHENA
Ric GOAT Flair
SCSA
HBK


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not in my order, just his order with my stars 

1. vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25 (*****)
2. vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 28 (****3/4)
3. vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 26 (*****)
4. w/Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001 (****1/2)
5. vs. Kurt Angle, No Way Out 2006 (****3/4)
6. vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002 (****)
7. vs. Brock Lesnar, No Mercy 2002 (****3/4)
8. vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008 (****)
9. vs. Batista, WrestleMania 23 (****1/2)
10. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2001 (****1/2)
11. vs. Edge, WrestleMania 24 (****1/2)
12. vs. Edge vs. Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Vladimir Kozlov, No Way Out 2009 (***1/2)
13. vs. Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000 (****)
14. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002 (****1/2)
15. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2007 (****1/4)
16. vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 17 (****1/4)
17. vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010 (***1/4)
18. vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2007 (****1/4)
19. vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005 (****1/2)
20. vs. Batista, Backlash 2007 (****1/4)
21. vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2007 (****1/2)
22. vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 21 (****1/4)
23. vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008 (*1/2)
24. w/Kane vs. The Two Man Powertrip, Backlash 2001 (****1/4)
25. vs. Brock Lesnar, Unforgiven 2002 (****)
26. vs. JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004 (***1/4)
27. vs. Batista vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007 (***3/4)
28. vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2003 (***1/2)
29. vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008 (***3/4)
30. w/Stone Cold Steve Austin, Chris Jericho, Kane & Kurt Angle vs. Booker T, DDP, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, Invasion 2001 (***3/4)
31. vs. The Big Show, No Mercy 2008 (***3/4)
32. vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 28 (****1/4)
33. w/Batista vs. John Cena & Shawn Michaels, No Way Out 2007 (****1/4)
34. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008 (***3/4)
35. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009 (****1/4)
36. vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003 (***)
37. vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005 (****1/4)
38. vs. Edge, Backlash 2008 (****)
39. vs. Edge, Judgment Day 2008 (***3/4)
40. 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003 (***3/4)
41. vs. MVP vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. The Great Khali vs. Big Daddy V, No Way Out 2008 (***1/2)
42. vs. Rob Van Dam, Vengeance 2001 (***1/2)
43. vs. Rey Mysterio, Royal Rumble 2010 (***)
44. vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Judgment Day 2001 (***3/4)
45. vs. The Rock vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000 (**1/2)
46. vs. Chris Jericho vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 2009 (***)
47. vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000 (**1/2)
48. vs. Kurt Angle, Survivor Series 2000 (***1/2)
49. vs. CM Punk vs. Batista vs. Rey Mysterio, Bragging Rights 2009 (***)
50. vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002 (**)
51. vs. Test, SummerSlam 2002 (**3/4)
52. w/Kane vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. E&C, No Way Out 2001 (***1/4)
53. vs. Brock Lesnar, No Mercy 2003 (***1/2)
54. vs. JBL, No Mercy 2004 (****1/4)
55. vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2006 (***1/2)
56. vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006 (***1/2)
57. vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005 (****1/4)
58. vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2002 (****)
59. vs. Booker T, No Mercy 2001 (**)
60. vs. CM Punk, Hell In A Cell 2009 (***1/2)
61. vs. Mark Henry, WrestleMania 22 (**3/4)
62. vs. The A-Train, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
63. vs. Mr. Kennedy, No Mercy 2006 (****1/4)
64. vs. Kane, Night Of Champions 2010 (***)
65. vs. Heidenreich, Survivor Series 2004 (****)
66. vs. The Big Show & The A-Train, WrestleMania 19 (**3/4)
67. vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007 (1/4*)
68. vs. CM Punk, Breaking Point 2009 (**1/2)
69. vs. Booker T, Judgment Day 2004 (**)
70. vs. Vince McMahon, Survivor Series 2003 (**)
71. vs. Kane, WrestleMania 20 (**1/2)
72. vs. Kane, Bragging Rights 2010 (*)
73. vs. The Two Man Powertrip, Insurrextion 2001 (**)
74. vs. JBL, SummerSlam 2004 (***1/2)
75. vs. Heidenreich, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/2)
76. vs. Kurt Angle, Fully Loaded 2000 (*)
77. vs. Batista, TLC 2009 (**)
78. vs. Muhammad Hassan, The Great American Bash 2005 (**)
79. vs. Kane, SummerSlam 2000 (1/2*)
80. vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 2008 (*)
81. vs. Kane, Hell In A Cell 2010 (*)
82. w/Kane vs. DDP & Chris Kanyon, SummerSlam 2001 (**)
83. vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002 (NEVER HAPPENED)
84. vs. The Big Show, The Great American Bash 2006 (**3/4)
85. w/The Rock & Kane vs. Triple H & The McMahons, King Of The Ring 2000 (**1/2)
86. vs. Hulk Hogan, Judgment Day 2002 (**1/2)
87. vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Backlash 2002 (****)
88. vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004 (**)
89. vs. Luther Reigns, No Way Out 2005 (DUD)
90. vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2006 (1/4*)
91. w/Kane vs. KroniK, Unforgiven 2001 (DUD)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NON-WRASSLEMANIA TOP FIVES ....

JERICHO

1. vs GAME (LMS) @ FL 00
2. W/Benoit vs Austin/GAME @ RAW 01
3. vs Benoit (Ladder) @ RR 01
4. TLC III @ SD 01
5. vs Shawn Michaels (Ladder) @ NM 08

(Come to think of it, Jericho's had a ton of awesome matches over the years, exactly why I'd put him in my top 10 all time favorites, what a fucking BEAST)

RAWK

1. vs GAME (Ironman) @ JD 00
2. vs Taker vs Angle @ VEN 02
3. vs GAME @ BL 00
4. vs Jericho @ NM 01
5. vs Jericho @ RR 02 / vs Benoit @ FL 00

SELFLESS GAME PROMOTING.

HE'LL BE BACK SOON TO BURY YOUR FAVORITE SUPERSTARS :jpl .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

For Jericho, for what it's worth, I have 33 matches of his in my top 250 so far, and he has the most behind Taker, HBK, and maybe HHH so far.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> For Jericho, for what it's worth, I have 33 matches of his in my top 250 so far, and he has the most behind *Jean Paul-Levesque*, *Terra Ryzing*, and maybe *THE GAME* so far.


... Triple H mark.

I have no idea if I'd ever be able to do a top 1000 list... Maybe a few years down the road when I've amassed so much footage that every single WWF/WWE match I could ever want to watch is at my fingertips, THEN I'll probably do something like that.

I'm just curious ; is this top 1000 FAVORITE or top 1000 BEST ? Like, will you try and watch every single classic match that has been rated above 4 stars from the likes of Backlund and such, or is this a FAVORITE type deal (or , of course, a best of list with DATE CONSTRAINTS)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Not in my order, just his order with my stars
> 
> 1. vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25 (*****)
> 2. vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 28 (****3/4)
> ...


I know my list certainly is far from agreeable, and opinions are opinions, but **** for THAT match? Crazy opinion but OK then


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It took me and the others just over a year to do a top 100 list. We'd likely have been adding some shitty matches at the end if we did 1000 lol. And it would have taken us a lot longer .

EDIT: I think I've only ever seen ONE person like that match as much as me .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena's WM matches:
vs Big Show - WM20 - ★★¾
vs JBL - WM21 - ★★¼
vs Triple H - WM22 - ★★★★
vs HBK - WM23 - ★★★½
vs Orton vs HHH - WM24 - ★★★¾
vs Edge vs Show - WM25 - ★★★
vs Batista - WM26 - ★★★¼
vs MOZ - WM27 - ½★
vs ROCK - WM28 - ★★★★

Top 5 WHY TWO JAY:
vs BENOIT - RR01 - ★★★★½
w/ BENOIT vs POWER TRIP - Raw - ★★★★½
vs HHH - FL00 - ★★★★½
TLC III - SD01 - ★★★★½
vs ROCK - NM01 - ★★★★½

Might have to rewatch ladder match with HBK to rerate. Had it at ★★★★ last time.

Top 5 ROCK:
vs AUSTIN - WM17 - ★★★★★
vs BENOIT - FL00 - ★★★★¾
vs HHH - BL00 - ★★★★½
vs AUSTIN - WM19 - ★★★★½
vs ANGLE vs TAKER - VEN02 - ★★★★½

Don't know why I just went all CAPITAL crazy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin - Backlash 2002*

This match isn't the main event for the PPV, but it has that big match feel to it that I love so much. Flair is the special referee for starters, the crowd are hot, and both guys involved are 2 of the biggest names EVER. They stare each other down as the bell rings, and then they are ready to go!

Undertaker was in his Big Evil heel persona during this time, and was always looking to get people to respect him, and to prove that he was the biggest and the best superstar in the world. So instead of going toe to toe with Austin in a brawl, he locks him in a head lock to CONTROL him instead, then knocks him down with a shoulder block. Austin is dazed, and goes to the outside to recover.

Austin now goes for a head lock to try and control the Dead Man, and then goes for a shoulder block of his own but 'Taker doesn't budge, instead just taunts the Rattle Snake and looks pretty pleased with himself. Austin retaliates by dropping down for some push ups, and the crowd pops.

We go back to the headlock, and again Undertaker looks to go for a shoulder block, but Austin counters with a huge right hand, knocking 'Taker down, then gives him the finger! Then Austin looks to want a test of strength, but when Undertaker accepts, Austin gives him the finger again! Undertaker is pisses and runs at Austin, only to get a couple of arm drags before Austin takes the match to the mat, where he was so damn successful in the previous year.

Just an awesome, awesome way to start this match off imo. Loved every second of it, which is why I felt I had to go all play by play to fully explain it.

With Austin out-wrestling him, Undertaker decides to make this match a brawl by dropping Austin with a right hand and then going to work on Austin's arm. Its not long before they end up on the outside with a very back and forth brawl.

When you have 2 great brawlers in Austin and Undertaker just going nuts, its hard for it to NOT be good. Right hands are been thrown constantly, heads are bouncing off announce tables just as often, and its still as back and forth as you can get until the NWO show up on the ramp and manage to distract Austin long enough for Undertaker to fully take advantage.

Now that 'Taker is in firm control, he can transition from brawling into a more methodical approach, which would most likely work better against a guy like Austin who can easily match 'Taker at brawling. He starts with the knees, then when he has him down, targets the back and neck of Austin which is the weakest part of Austin's body no doubt. The leg work comes back to help Undertaker at points too, as he can quickly kick it whenever Austin tries to mount an offence. Everything done by Undertaker in this match so far has been incredible smart.

The Texas Rattle Snake doesn't give up though, and when Undertaker takes off one of the turnbuckle pads, he sees an opportunity to get back into the match. One Irish Whip reversal later, and Undertaker goes back first into the exposed turnbuckle and Austin gets a second wind! Flair ends up getting knocked down just as Austin finally hits the Stunner. Awww, poor Austin hasn't won .

By the time Flair is back up, Undertaker has cheated his way back in control, and very nearly wins with a Chokeslam! In comes a steel chair, but Flair takes it away from him and Austin uses the chair distraction to get payback and cheat HIS way back in control!

Another Stunner coming up, but this time Undertaker counters it and Flair is down again! The chair comes into play, but still Austin refuses to stay down (watching this live I was sure Austin was going to win to begin with, but after he kicked out of a Chokeslam AND that steel chair shot, I didn't think the Dead Man had a chance).

The steel chair comes into play AGAIN, but Austin moves out of the way and is about to use it himself... until BAM. Big Boot from The Undertaker, and the chair goes right into the face of Austin! The cover is made, Flair counts 3, but Austin's foot was on the ropes! Flair didn't notice, so Undertaker gets the win and becomes the #1 contender for Judgment Day!

:mark:

Ok, loved this match even more this time around. Not enough to make me up my already "high" rating compared to everyone else, but enough to make me actually consider it for my top 100 list, which is wasn't originally going to be on. Honestly, don't see why people hate on this match at all. It never gets boring, and it didn't seem long at all when I watched it. Undertaker wrestled an extremely smart match, and Austin, well... Austin really was burnt out by this time, and while he wasn't terrible in the match, far from it even, but it was definitely an Undertaker match all the way in terms of performance and who I remember the most in the match.

*Rating: ****1/4*

Turns out I gave it MORE than **** lol!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*CAL*, you crazy mother fucker.

I'd never be able to do a top 100 unless it was all PPV matches (which will probably happen over the next year TBH) for the simple reason that I CAN indeed watch every single PPV match in WWF/WWE history. I'm crazy and obsessed in the sense that if I'm doing a top 100 or a top list of ANYTHING I need to see EVERYTHING. Take a CELL matches list ; I'd need to see every single damn cell match in order for me to rate my top five seriously.

If I took in count TV matches I would be YEARS going through various shows, which would probably drive me crazy as some point so it's gonna be a PPV only list from me if you're gonna get the most HONEST attempt out of me. I'm already over halfways done the MANIAS, now I have to go but the other anthology sets to start that ish


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Backlash match is pretty good IMO. I did have a laugh watching it, though, as walk around the ring quite a bit in slow pace. ★★★½ IIRC.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> ... Triple H mark.
> 
> I have no idea if I'd ever be able to do a top 1000 list... Maybe a few years down the road when I've amassed so much footage that every single WWF/WWE match I could ever want to watch is at my fingertips, THEN I'll probably do something like that.
> 
> I'm just curious ; is this top 1000 FAVORITE or top 1000 BEST ? Like, will you try and watch every single classic match that has been rated above 4 stars from the likes of Backlund and such, or is this a FAVORITE type deal (or , of course, a best of list with DATE CONSTRAINTS)


Frankly, I don't think I'll get to 1,000, because whether I've watched that many matches or not, it's already getting really tough to remember some great matches. I'm trying to make it to 500 at least, and we'll see what happens from there.

My list though is primarily stuff I grew up with, since, as I've mentioned somewhere recently, I just find it hard to go back and watch older matches. A guy like Backlund, while I've heard many great things and even seen a couple of matches, isn't someone I personally care for, even to watch what many consider his greatest matches and in some cases the greatest matches of all time. I'm gonna be as objective as I can, and when it comes to superstars that'll be clear (hopefully), but not as it relates to time, since matches from the last 15 years will be a lot more numerous on the list than matches prior. I'm not a "wrestling mark" either, so that's another reason it's harder to go back and watch older stuff, or stuff in general that isn't rated ****+, especially if it's something like an hour long, which is why I may not even get to watching the hour long Flair/Steamboat match, which I know you consider the best. Hell, I may just make this a pure WWF/WWE list, just because those Flair/Steamboat matches will probably be the only outside WWE matches I'd have. I don't care to watch even ****1/2 matches from NWA, ROH, TNA, and the likes, so yeah.

So yeah, it's not going to be a true definitive list of all time, but it's not going to be a true "favorites list" either. Just the best within the realm of stuff I've watched/have the motivation to watch. Some of the TV matches in the ***3/4-**** range I haven't really seen since they aired, and there are some from the early 2000's.

Also, still waiting on those other lists. Or how about just a top 10 for each year since 1998, or top 5 for each if you can't think of 10. Just trying to get some ideas of matches I may have missed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck can SOMEBODY tell me how many WWF/WWE PPVs there has been as of now, and how many I CAN'T acquire legally (I'm assuming OTE 99 being the lone exception) ? I have about 80 percent of PPVs from 2002 onward so I would assume I'm almost halfway there. Would be cool to own every single one ; go region free for the shows I can't get in North America of course


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW Title Match - No Way Out 15/02/2009

Been a long time since I saw this match, and despite their previous matches and the fact I'm a fan of both, I never liked it. Wonder if that will change.

The crowd REALLY don't give a fuck about this. Hate crowds like this that are dead unless someone is using a weapon or diving off a ladder.

Similar spot to their last match with Finlay crashing into the middle turnbuckle and getting hurt, allowing Swagger to target the arm of the Irishman.

I know I complained about the crowd, but I guess they have a point here. This IS kinda dull. I'm staring to think I won't like this much still once its over lol.

Match just feels really slow and sluggish, even when they pick up the pace at a couple of points. Hornswoggle randomly tries to get involved, but it distracts Finlay and Swagger picks up the win.

Wow. This wasn't good at all. The worst ECW match I've watched from 2009 so far, and its a PPV match lol.

Rating: *


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LESNAR-FINLAY.

Make it happen Vince, you magnificent bastard. :brock .

Hope BROCK destroys somebody else on RAW tonight, preferably MIZ again or SIN CARA.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jericho WWF/E Top 5

vs. Triple H (Fully Loaded) *****
vs. HBK (No Mercy Ladder match) *****
vs. Benoit (RR '01 Ladder Match)*****
vs. HBK (WrestleMania 19) ****1/2
vs. Rock (No Mercy '01) ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One of the reasons I'm so excited about rewatching Manias is that I get to see matches I remember nothing about like Shawn-Jericho . Last time I saw that one was like 5 years ago and I forget what I thought of it honestly, Jericho says in his book that it's his favorite match though so there you go. 

MR. WRESTLEMANIA STEALI.......... Or IS he Mr. Wrestlemania ? I can't wait to address this topic and how I feel about it in another week or so when I'm done the rewatchings.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> One of the reasons I'm so excited about rewatching Manias is that I get to see matches I remember nothing about like Shawn-Jericho . Last time I saw that one was like 5 years ago and I forget what I thought of it honestly, Jericho says in his book that it's his favorite match though so there you go.
> 
> MR. WRESTLEMANIA STEALI.......... Or IS he Mr. Wrestlemania ? I can't wait to address this topic and how I feel about it in another week or so when I'm done the rewatchings.


I don't understand what you mean by the last sentence.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I don't understand what you mean by the last sentence.


I'm pretty sure he's saying HBK is a failure at Mania and all his matches at Mania are DUDs. Oh, and that HHH is better.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

:lol

Come on, everyone knows that nickname is well earned. Just look at DAT WM RESUME.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm saying that HBK could have some competition for "Mr. Wrestlemania" , and it's fairly obvious who that man is  .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I too shall be interested to see how I feel about HBK's WM overall once I go through them. I definitely feel a handful of his matches are rather overrated, but will that be enough to prevent him from being MR WRESTLEMANIA? Who the fuck knows. Not me. Yet. I'll get back to you. Later. In a month or so. When I watch them all.

Up to ECW 24/02/2009 episode. :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm saying that HBK could have some competition for "Mr. Wrestlemania" , and it's fairly obvious who that man is  .


Hope you don't mean Triple H..

All markdom aside, I honestly can't think of anyone who even comes close.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not GAME. He wouldn't use his awesomeness to destroy his best friend's reputation, that's why he purposely made his matches against Taker @ Mania worse than the HBK series.

THE GAME IS A GOOD FRIEND. :jpl


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Other then some arguments (which I don't agree with) for Savage, maybe Bret or Undertaker (whose best matches are with HBK) I can't think of anyone who comes close to Shawn's resume at Mania. Even if you think some or all of his matches are overrated you have to recognize the individual effort and performances he's had not only in WrestleMania history but in big matches throughout his career.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> It's not GAME. He wouldn't use his awesomeness to destroy his best friend's reputation, that's why he purposely made his matches against Taker @ Mania worse than the HBK series.
> 
> THE GAME IS A GOOD FRIEND. :jpl


:lmao

Paul Levesque is a hell of a friend to Michael Hickenbottom, and vice versa, I'm sure.

Well done.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Based on my CURRENT HBK and Undertaker WM ratings, I used the CAL SCALE to see what their WM's look like:

HBK 63
Undertaker 89.5

So yeah, Mr WrestleMania for me atm is Undertaker . Not even that close either lol .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TAKER HAS HAD MORE WM MATCHES THAN HBK THAT'S NOT FAIR


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The only names that could remotely challenge HBK's position as Mr. WrestleMania are Taker, Bret and Savage IMO.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Taker has his fair share of duds and below average on his resume in the early to mid and even late 90s. I love Taker, but some of his WM matches...yuck. Not all his fault at all, but still, they happened.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ah yes, Undertaker. That's the guy I was referring to.

From a pure percentages standpoint it seems as if Shawn never had a BAD Wrestlemania match, with like 90 percent of them being over 3 stars IMO (haven't seen a few yet, well I have but I haven't REWATCHED it). Can't wait to dive into this discussion with some actual RATINGZ to back it up in a week. I'm not saying Shawn isn't Mr. Wrestlemania, I'm just saying that it's not an undisputed in the books fact.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> TAKER HAS HAD MORE WM MATCHES THAN HBK THAT'S NOT FAIR





ShowStopper '97 said:


> Taker has his fair share of duds and below average on his resume in the early to mid and even late 90s. I love Taker, but some of his WM matches...yuck. Not all his fault at all, but still, they happened.


Like TLK said, more matches. Which helps . Plus only 1 DUD imo. Though some of those early ones got 0 or 0.5 points only which didn't help his overall rating .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not really sure how Savage is getting included in this...Steamboat, Flair and Warrior matches were great, but that's really it...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why I said it depends on what criteria you go by ; when it goes by percentages and shit it's CLEARLY Shawn and nobody else, but if you use an addition system without dividing than it's clearly Taker hands down. I've got a third criteria in mind for when I count down a top 10 to see just who the REAL Mr. Wrestlemania actually is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Not really sure how Savage is getting included in this...Steamboat and Warrior matches were great, but that's really it...


Flair too. Hogan match is solid as well, some people like it a lot more though. But still, that's only 4 matches.

Edit: Undertaker is Mr WM for me currently for more than just match quality too. For the last decade his STREAK has been perhaps THE biggest part of WM, whether he was involved in a title match or not. His matches always have that special feeling regardless of his opponent, similar to HBK in that regard.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Like TLK said, more matches. Which helps . Plus only 1 DUD imo. Though some of those early ones got 0 or 0.5 points only which didn't help his overall rating .


True, more matches. And alot more matches like Giant Gonzalez, King Kong Bundy, Snuka, Sid, Bossman, etc.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> That's why I said it depends on what criteria you go by ; when it goes by percentages and shit it's CLEARLY Shawn and nobody else, but if you use an addition system without dividing than it's clearly Taker hands down. I've got a third criteria in mind for when I count down a top 10 to see just who the REAL Mr. Wrestlemania actually is.


I don't know. When I look at both guys' WM resumes, I see more quality matches on HBKs' resume than I do 'Taker's. And I see a pretty good amount of crap on Taker's resume. It's not even particularly close.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Flair too. Hogan match is solid as well, some people like it a lot more though. But still, that's only 4 matches.


Yeah, I quickly edited my post (obviously not quickly enough) to add the Flair match. The Hogan match was OK, but nothing on the level of the other 3. Then you get a bunch of other crap like vs. Steele, then the title tournament @ WM4, mixed tag @ WM6, etc etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> True, more matches. And alot more matches like Giant Gonzalez, King Kong Bundy, Snuka, Sid, Bossman, etc.


And HBK has those terrible matches against the likes of Tatanka, Santana, Bret, Orient Express tag with Marty .

Both guys have some garbage early on in their WM careers.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> And HBK has those terrible matches against the likes of Tatanka, Santana, Bret, Orient Express tag with Marty .
> 
> Both guys have some garbage early on in their WM careers.


The ironman match wasn't terrible. It wasn't 5 stars, but it wasn't crap, either. And the Santana and Tatanka matches were his first two singles WM matches. They still pale in comparison to Snuka, Roberts, Bossman, Bundy, Big Show and A-Train, Sid, Gonzalez, etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You cant really compare Taker and HBK's WM matches though, its not Taker's fault he got handed guys like Gonzalez etc early on whereas HBK had better people in general to work with, plus Taker was a victim of his own gimmick early on..

Two of my all time faves though of course. (HBK IN the ring)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Really don't see how it's between anyone but HBK and Taker. HHH has had some gems (vs Booker, triple threat @ 20, vs Cena, vs Taker x3, etc), but I still don't think it's on the level of HBK and Taker's resumes. Since WM23, Taker has arguably been involved in the best match on the card.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd definitely say the Iron Man was garbage.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ah not me. Definitely a **** affair for me. It was a 65 match. Considering the grueling length of the match, it was good to me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't know how I feel about Michaels/Angle. Would have to re-watch to see how it holds up. And Michaels/Jericho too. Always thought that was great but Jericho is by far the better guy in that match. Michaels/Flair needs another viewing too but right now I'd take that over Taker/Batista, Taker/Edge and Taker/Orton.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

First 30 minutes were utterly pointless. HBK works Bret's arm. Then they hit the 30 minute mark and randomly decide to pick up the pace. Bret forgets that his arm was worked on. HBK never goes back to it. So glad they spent the first half of the match with that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Best overall years for these guys:
> 
> HAITCH HAITCH HAITCH - *2000.*
> CEE ME PANK - *2011, I guess.*
> ...


edited in


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Iron Man must be the most polarizing match of all time, haha. Don't know if I'd classify it as "garbage," but I'm also not sure if I'm willing to sit through it again in order to see if it's garbage.

I'd also like to rewatch HBK/Angle and HBK/Jericho. HBK/Flair I've seen numerous times and it has held up. Awesome match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> First 30 minutes were utterly pointless. HBK works Bret's arm. Then they hit the 30 minute mark and randomly decide to pick up the pace. Bret forgets that his arm was worked on. HBK never goes back to it. So glad they spent the first half of the match with that.


Eh, you could pick on stuff like that for alot of good matches. Like Taker not selling a broken hand in a HIAC with Brock Lesnar in which his cast was ripped off and still somehow managing to get a chokeslam off. 

:lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That was ONE moment in a match. And Undertaker still sold excellently for the rest of it. Not like Lesnar worked it over for 30 minutes then Undertaker completely ignored it .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> That was ONE moment in a match. And Undertaker still sold excellently for the rest of it. Not like Lesnar worked it over for 30 minutes then Undertaker completely ignored it .


True, but it was a broken hand. It's not like Bret had a broken arm/shoulder going into the ironman match, kayfabe.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was broken a couple of weeks earlier, and Undertaker had a painkiller shot prior to the match, kayfabe .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Eh, you could pick on stuff like that for alot of good matches. *Like Taker not selling a broken hand in a HIAC with Brock Lesnar in which his cast was ripped off and still somehow managing to get a chokeslam off.*
> 
> :lmao


As a matter of fact that is something I have a problem with. It doesn't ruin the match but it bothers me.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

On the subject of "Mr. Wrestlemania", Edge's Wrestlemania resume is pretty good.

XVI: w/Christian vs. The Dudleys vs. The Hardys ****
XVII: w/Christian vs. The Dudleys vs. The Hardys ****1/4
XVIII: vs. Booker T **
XXI: MITB ****3/4
XXII: vs. Foley ****1/2
XXIII: MITB ****
XXIV: vs. Taker ****1/4
XXV: vs. Cena/Show ***1/4
XXVI: vs. Jericho ****
XXVII: vs. Del Rio ***1/2


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> ... Triple H mark.
> 
> I have no idea if I'd ever be able to do a top 1000 list... Maybe a few years down the road when I've amassed so much footage that every single WWF/WWE match I could ever want to watch is at my fingertips, THEN I'll probably do something like that.
> 
> I'm just curious ; is this top 1000 FAVORITE or top 1000 BEST ? Like, will you try and watch every single classic match that has been rated above 4 stars from the likes of Backlund and such, or is this a FAVORITE type deal (or , of course, a best of list with DATE CONSTRAINTS)


I don't know about his, but my Top 1000 is going to be sort of a mixture of both. For example, I adore Flair/HHH from Taboo Tuesday, I will probably put it above some really good stuff from 90's All Japan.

But RAWK, are you doing all promotions as well or just strictly WWE?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, change of mood - what are your top 10 WORST PPV matches (from WWE and WCW respectively)?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> True, more matches. And alot more matches like Giant Gonzalez, King Kong Bundy, Snuka, Sid, Bossman, etc.


For Taker vs. HBK for Mr. Wrestlemania, it's tough. I mean during the earlier years, Taker was severely limited by his gimmick. HBK's match out-did Taker in all those Wrestlemania's except WM14, which I'd put Taker/Kane above Austin/HBK, though in fairness to Michaels, he was injured.

WM24 and WM23 I'd say Taker/Batista and Taker/Edge comfortably beat HBK/Cena and HBK/Flair. For WM22, both their matches sucked, and I'm not honestly sure which I'd put above the other. WM21 HBK/Angle does beat Taker/Orton, but it's close. WM20 the triple threat clearly beats Taker/Kane, and WM19 the HBK/Jericho match destroys the handicap match Taker was involved in.

As far as match quality goes, I'd give it to HBK as where even in later years Taker had a few stinkers, HBK only had one (and it was with Vince McMahon, so you can't blame him), and ultimately while Taker's WM23 and WM24 matches beat HBK's respective matches on the same card, HBK's matches with Jericho and Razor are even better than those, and those matches are the respective best Taker/HBK matches for each individual, though Taker and HBK are each other's best opponent.

But Taker due to his streak in combination with his resume of matches has always felt like more of a staple to Mania, or at least has since WM20, so to say who is really Mr. Wrestlemania when all things are considered, it's tough. There's also a case for Hulk Hogan since along with WWE, Wrestlemania became a huge success in great part due to Hogan, and he has plenty of historic moments and even some great matches with Warrior and Savage. I wouldn't personally pick him, but the case is there.



> But RAWK, are you doing all promotions as well or just strictly WWE?


I've decided to just make it WWE, since my knowledge on anything else is very limited.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> For Taker vs. HBK for Mr. Wrestlemania, it's tough. I mean during the earlier years, Taker was severely limited by his gimmick. HBK's match out-did Taker in all those Wrestlemania's except WM14, which I'd put Taker/Kane above Austin/HBK, though in fairness to Michaels, he was injured.
> 
> WM24 and WM23 I'd say Taker/Batista and Taker/Edge comfortably beat HBK/Cena and HBK/Flair. For WM22, both their matches sucked, and I'm not honestly sure which I'd put above the other. WM21 HBK/Angle does beat Taker/Orton, but it's close. WM20 the triple threat clearly beats Taker/Kane, and WM19 the HBK/Jericho match destroys the handicap match Taker was involved in.
> 
> As far as match quality goes, I'd give it to HBK as where even in later years Taker had a few stinkers, HBK only had one (and it was with Vince McMahon, so you can't blame him), and ultimately while Taker's WM23 and WM24 matches beat HBK's respective matches on the same card, HBK's matches with Jericho and Razor are even better than those, and those matches are the respective best Taker/HBK matches for each individual, though Taker and HBK are each other's best opponent.


Well said. Think you said it even better than I did, haha. For the record, I'm not trying to say Taker hasn't had some very good to great 'Mania matches, he clearly has. In fact, I'd say in terms of match quality he's in 2nd place (not an insult at all) right behind HBK in terms of match quality at WM. I just wish he was alittle bit younger OR alittle bit less beat up so he could continue to wrestle at WM for the next 10 years.

Hell, how about HBK and 'Taker come back at every WM these next few years and wrestle eachother. If Taker could pull it off healthwise, I'd be all for it.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I'd definitely say the Iron Man was garbage.


(Y)



Arnold Tricky said:


> For what it's worth, I think the Iron Man match between HBK and Bret is the single most overrated match of all-time.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yep, if you don't like two of the best of all time going at it in their prime, then that's what it is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yep, if you don't like two of the best of all time going at it in their prime, then that's what it is.


just a shame the Survivor Series '97 match couldn't have gone on longer, as I think that was probably their best match against eachother...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

zep81 said:


> just a shame the Survivor Series '97 match couldn't have gone on longer, as I think that was probably their best match against eachother...


Yeah, would have been nice. To be honest, I go back on forth on that match. Sometimes I like it for what it is. But sometimes when I watch it's just all over the place. But I guess given the circumstances of that match, it was good for what it was.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> First 30 minutes were utterly pointless. HBK works Bret's arm. Then they hit the 30 minute mark and randomly decide to pick up the pace. Bret forgets that his arm was worked on. HBK never goes back to it. So glad they spent the first half of the match with that.



LOL



ShowStopper '97 said:


> True, but it was a broken hand. It's not like Bret had a broken arm/shoulder going into the ironman match, kayfabe.


Yea but a broken arm wouldn't stop him from pulling one thing off if you bring adrenaline into the equation.

Or he forgot for a moment.


And it's obvious that Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The HBK/Hart Ironman match was sixty minutes of bullshit.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A broken arm wouldn't stop someone from chokeslamming Brock Lesnar?

:lmao

Yeah, that's the ticket.

And it's obvious the Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania if you're going by W/L record. Otherwise, um, no.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> A broken arm wouldn't stop someone from chokeslamming Brock Lesnar?
> 
> :lmao
> 
> ...


I've seen people do crazier things with a broken body part.

And I'm taking all things into account. Taker is Mr. Wrestlemania.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania if you go by match quality as well.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> I've seen people do crazier things with a broken body part.
> 
> And I'm taking all things into account. Taker is Mr. Wrestlemania.


He really isn't. He has way too much garbage on his WM resume.



GOON The Legend said:


> Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania if you go by match quality as well.


Yeah. Those Snuka, Roberts, Gonzalez, Bundy, Bossman, Henry, A-Train, Sid matches are classics.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> He really isn't. He has way too much garbage on his WM resume.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Those Snuka, Roberts, Gonzalez, Bundy, Bossman, Henry, A-Train, Sid matches are classics.


 That's just 8 out of 20.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> That's just 8 out of 20.


Yup. Almost half. Find 8 bad matches on HBK's WM resume.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The hate for the iron man is too strong. It's a fine match. Part of me thinks if it wasn't heralded as a classic for so long it would seen as pretty good. It's definitely overrated, and not a great match at all, but no way is it garbage.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> The hate for the iron man is too strong. It's a fine match. Part of me thinks if it wasn't heralded as a classic for so long it would seen a such. It's definitely overrated, and not a great match at all, but no way is it garbage.


Completely agree. That's the way I see that match, too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Iron Man would have been good if they just did 30 minutes instead of 60 aka left out the first half hour that they actually did .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*The Great American Bash 2007*

*Randy Orton vs Dusty Rhodes (Texas Bullrope)*
- This one confused me as I recognize Bullrope matches for being similar to the JBL type where they touch the light on all four corners but here, they are just tied to the rope and it's a normal match otherwise. Pretty short but Orton does a great job at selling the embarrassing moments for Dusty. He then puts Dusty in a sleeper for about a minute followed by Dusty trying to get back in this only for Orton to hit him with the cowbell on the rope for the pinfall. ★¾

*John Cena vs Bobby Lashley*
- Looking at the video package and their _Vengeance_ five pack match, they really treated this like some kind of big deal and thankfully, the match delivers. Both men starts off with a test of strength then the match truly sets off. It all just comes together so fine as they do such a great job at timing their moves. Nothing feels meaningless in this and it's just an enjoyable 15 minutes. Lashley hits the power moves smoothly while Cena hits his signature spots with a great sense of timing and pattern. I really liked how there was no 5 moves of doom here either. Cena directly hit the Spinout Powerbomb once then Lashley got up only to take another which is followed by the obligatory 5 Knuckle Shuffle. Afterwards Lashley gets to look pretty strong as he kicks out of a FU and reaches the rope in the STFU. Finish was pretty good as it managed to keep both men strong. Lashley tries a Superplex but gets countered into a Super FU from the top rope which is enough to put him away for the 3 count. After the clean victory, Lashley shakes Cena's hand and it's over. Pretty good match with both men giving it all they got and even though crowd mainly cared for Cena, they were good throughout the event. This surprises me as San Jose crowds are usually criticized for being quiet a lot of the time. ★★★★


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Z said:


> The Iron Man would have been good if they just did 30 minutes instead of 60 aka left out the first half hour that they actually did .


Yeah, it'd be five times as good with half (or even more than half) of it gone. Wrote this last year on it:



> Michaels/Hart looked eh from the beginning. Bret's control segments- hell, in the whole match- were pretty dull. Kept this regular lock on and did nothing special except move his head and looks around. I thought outside of the dry areas, this is a pretty damn good match. It honestly could have been great had they shaved off 35 minutes and took Shawn out-doing Bret, some struggles, the time-keeper bump, Bret going a little mad on Michaels and Lothario, and the exhaustion moment where HBK couldn't even capitalize on his first superkick. Bret going back to a headlock with 8 minutes remaining makes sense b/c he thought a draw would keep him the Title, but...you've gone fifty minutes, none of the last ten should be a rest-hold. Not a great match, but the hour wasn't long and dragging, mostly.





Choke2Death said:


> *The Great American Bash 2007*


Did you watch Hardy/Umaga? Man I love that match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> The Iron Man would have been good if they just did 30 minutes instead of 60 aka left out the first half hour that they actually did .


Despite me thinking that the match is "fine", I also would rather they just have had a 'regular' 30 minute WM Main Event match. Would have been EPIC. We can all thank Pat Patterson. We all know it was his idea.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fecking Patterson. Just because he fancied HBK and wanted to see him roll around all sweaty for 60 minutes...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Fecking Patterson. Just because he fancied HBK and wanted to see him roll around all sweaty for 60 minutes...


:lol

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind, too. He also liked Bret, alot too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did you watch Hardy/Umaga? Man I love that match.


Nah, just downloaded some random 2007 PPV matches and out of TGAB, these two were among them. I'll see if Umaga/Jeff is there too and if not, I'll head over to YT/DM whenever I get a chance as it's too late now and I gotta get some sleep.

EDIT: Yes, I have it!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well he really booked that match for himself then, didn't he? :lmao

Old pervy bastard. Bet it was him that set up the Playgirl deal for Shawn too...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Well he really booked that match for himself then, didn't he? :lmao
> 
> Old pervy bastard. Bet it was him that set up the Playgirl deal for Shawn too...


:lmao

Wouldn't doubt it at all. Yuck, I get perv chills whenever I think of Patterson. That poor ring boy..


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay, I'm convinced that Mark Henry is an angel sent down from the wrestling gods to crush all of the shitty workers and characters in the WWE. JUST LOOK AT WHAT HE HAS DONE LATELY AND TELL ME THAT IT ISN'T THE CASE ;

- Tosses Daniel Bryan to the side as to say "I don't want to hurt you, you sir are an excellent worker"
- Proceeds to destroy Rey Mysterio and put him out of his misery due to Mysterio being at an all time low.
- Destroys Sin Cara , the botch machine.
- Dismantles an unmotivated Randy Orton who has been uneventful for the longest time
- Destroys that Piece of Shit Khali
- Gives HORNSWOGGLE (the biggest walking embarrassment in the WWE) the WSS.

Seriously, give it some thought.... I think Henry may be the GOAT if he continues taking out these scrub workers. Couple it with Lesnar destroying that walking joke of a former world champion JIZ and the monster heels are squashing the right insects for sure.

SOMEBODY GON' GET DEY WIG SPLIT ! THAT'S WHAT I DO !


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Other than squashing Orton, I'm 100% behind MIZARK DA RATING MACHINE!

He's an angel sent from the heavens because he also saves the ratings every time he appears. Coincidence? NOT!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WE'RE GETTING JERICHO-BRYAN TONIGHT. Jericho REALLY wants to be WOTY this year, doesn't he ?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

JERICHO BRYAN ALERT!!! RAW TONIGHT!


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

What a Raw so far

PUNK AND HEYMAN PROMO :mark:
MONSTER HENRY :mark:
BRYAN/JERICHO :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got to see a Henry/Orton match live in 09. Don't remember it being good though. Henry was face . Got it on DVD though, might have to give it another watch.

Edit: Ok, Raw spoilers showing up in here. I'll be back in the morning after I download and watch Raw .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Night *CAL* , love you !

unk2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not kidding in the slightest when I say I will check spoilers for weekly WWE TV just to see when Henry is a part of the show. Those are the only parts I care about watching right now and he is single-handedly making me tune in. Fuggin' HENRY.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Randy Orton vs. Super Crazy - March 3rd, 2006
*Randy Orton made his entrance to THIS FIRE BURNS by Killswitch Engage. This was the only week he used this theme IIRC and the WWE, having to find a use for it, made it the theme song for Judgment Day in May and would eventually give it to CM Punk when he made his debut on ECW soon after. Anyway, this match was pretty fun, with Super Crazy coming close to beating Orton as evident by a few near falls Crazy got on Orton. Orton eventually decided to stop playing around and killed Crazy with a clothesline and then followed that with the RKO. Fine match for what it was.
*Rating: ***

*The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle - March 3rd, 2006
*This match was the sequel to their epic encounter they had at the No Way Out Pay Per View just two weeks prior. During the match, Michael Cole called this match a "carbon copy" of their No Way Out match. Not quite, Michael. It was going to be pretty hard to live up to their ****3/4 match and even though they didn't, this ended up being one hell of a TV main event.

The first part of the match (before the first commercial break) was them just feeling each other out and doing some submission wrestling. After the first commercial break, we had a break from the submissions and the two were brawling on the outside of the ring. Undertaker, who was making it a point to work on Kurt Angle's surgically repaired neck, was going to do his signature leg drop on the apron, but he decided to turn Kurt Angle onto his stomach and did a leg drop right onto Kurt Angle's neck. Awesome spot there! Speaking of nice spots, Undertaker ran knee first into the steel steps when Angle whipped him into them, which would soften both of his legs up for the ankle lock.

Towards the end, they did their "reversals and locking in their submissions out of nowhere"(which was done much better at No Way Out, by the way). I liked the one spot though where Kurt Angle caught Undertaker and locked in the ankle lock on after Undertaker attempted a leg drop onto Angle's neck. Undertaker had the match won with a Tombstone but Mark Henry ran in before the referee could even begin the count and caused the disqualification. This ended up being a pretty good main event, although I could have done without Mark Henry running in. With that said, this wasn't close to the No Way Out main event but what we ended up getting was much better than most main events even on Pay Per View. 
*Rating: *****


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

*WWE RAW 02/11/13*
Chris Jericho vs. Daniel Bryan - ***1/4

Very good match here. I wish it were just a tad longer. Last week's Punk/Jericho trumps it by just a bit.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Thought Bryan/Jericho was better than Punk/Jericho. Liked it more for sure.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Both are at ***3/4, but I'd give the edge to Punk/Jericho.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody else have this feeling that everything we THOUGHT was going to happen at Wrestlemania isn't actually going to happen at Wrestlemania ?

The Heyman/Punk/Lesnar connection... There's something there we don't know, some bigger picture. The Rock stipulation wouldn't be put into place if NOTHING was going to come of it. DAMN....


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not a huge fan of the Punk/Jericho match. It's good but nothing more. Bryan/Jericho accomplished more in less time with better execution.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*** 1/4 for Punk/Jericho
***+ for Bryan/Jericho

Quality stuff from Jericho so far this year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Anybody else have this feeling that everything we THOUGHT was going to happen at Wrestlemania isn't actually going to happen at Wrestlemania ?
> 
> The Heyman/Punk/Lesnar connection... There's something there we don't know, some bigger picture. The Rock stipulation wouldn't be put into place if NOTHING was going to come of it. DAMN....


You might be on to something. DQ via Brock giving Punk the title could be on the cards but does that give us Punk/Cena and Rock/Brock or Punk/Cena/Rock triple threat? Three way seems more likely to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

REALLY outside of the box... but they could do Lesnar/Punk vs Undertaker/Triple H or something with Taker being paranoid that Trips could get pinned and cost him the streak ; or Taker could not wrestle and they'd do a whole WM 2000 thing with Lesnar-Rock-Cena-Punk but those two scenarios would be highly unlikely.

Rock/Brock
Punk/Cena

More room for the undercard to shine... They don't need a triple main event this year if they had Rock/Brock honestly.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I'm sorry, I don't see it. People keep praising this recent face push from Del Rio. I still think he's as boring as ever. Easily one of the worst performers on the current roster, in my view.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I've been praising his in-ring work as a face. Don't care for his character or promos.

Henry/Orton rematch on Smackdown this week. Hoping it gets 10 minutes.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I'm sorry, I don't see it. People keep praising this recent face push from Del Rio. I still think he's as boring as ever. Easily one of the worst performers on the current roster, in my view.


This. Del Rio is SO fucking dull.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jericho/Bryan was awesome, I personally thought it told an awesome story and how Bryan wanted to prove to Jericho that he has matured as a wrestler, plus Jericho wanting to prove himself against the 'youngsters' of the roster, and DEM CALLBACKZ from NXT. But seriously, tremendous TV match, **** in my book.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Chris Jericho vs. Daniel Bryan - ****

Better than the CM Punk match last week by just a tad. Chris Jericho is on fire with this comeback.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Looking forward to the PPV this weekend. All of the matches have potential.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Anybody else have this feeling that everything we THOUGHT was going to happen at Wrestlemania isn't actually going to happen at Wrestlemania ?
> 
> The Heyman/Punk/Lesnar connection... There's something there we don't know, some bigger picture. The Rock stipulation wouldn't be put into place if NOTHING was going to come of it. DAMN....


How I see it...

Punk's winning the title at EC, and we've got a triple threat at Wrestlemania. I don't think we're seeing Taker either. Jericho's winning the chamber, coming after Ziggler who cashed in on Del Rio. Swagger sets his sights on Del Rio thanks to his new racist manager which eliminates Del Rio wanting his rematch for one month, then you can do Del Rio/Ziggler at Extreme Rules. 

Del Rio/Swagger
Jericho/Ziggler (WHC)
Brock/HHH
Rock/Cena/Punk (WWE)


Throw in rumored stuff like Sheamus/Orton, Rey/Sin Cara, and Bryan/Kane and Wrestlemania isn't looking too bad.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Randy Orton v Triple H - Raw (6/22/09)*
Maybe all of their matches should've been last man standing because this is easily their second best match behind No Mercy '07. I'm too tired to write much about it now but it features an excellent selling performance from HHH and a bunch of good looking spots/bumps, concluding in a smart finish with Hunter's injury coming into play. They also did a far better job of capturing the personal nature of the feud here than they did in any of the other matches in their '09 series. Really good stuff.



Walter Sobchak said:


> How I see it...
> 
> Punk's winning the title at EC, and we've got a triple threat at Wrestlemania. I don't think we're seeing Taker either. Jericho's winning the chamber, coming after Ziggler who cashed in on Del Rio. Swagger sets his sights on Del Rio thanks to his new racist manager which eliminates Del Rio wanting his rematch for one month, then you can do Del Rio/Ziggler at Extreme Rules.
> 
> ...


Del Rio is getting over. Can't see them pulling the trigger on his title reign to put the belt on Ziggler before Mania. They can do Jericho/Ziggler without the title.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> Looking forward to the PPV this weekend. All of the matches have potential.


(Y)

Now Del Rio/Show needs a gimmick added to the match and maybe they'll add Cesaro/Miz for the US Title. I want Cesaro to go over and be through with Miz after the match, but WWE just might put the belt on Miz to further push his face turn.



TaylorFitz said:


> Macho Madness: The Ultimate Randy Savage Collection
> 
> I've had this DVD for far too long to never have watched it.
> 
> ...


Great write-up on one of my favorite sets to replay. The extra promos they added are a treat. It would have been much better to have Savage involved with the project so that's a shame it never happened. I love Randy Savage. I love his wrestling style, his character & how he meticulously implemented his character into the execution of a match his promos that were wacky on the surface but a work of art if you really listened to what he was saying, and the matches. That Flair/Savage WM 8 match is not to be ignored. I would put it up there as one of the best WrestleMania matches ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I for one am dying for Jericho vs Ziggler to be for the World Championship come WM. Who else would win the Chamber match to work vs Del Rio or Show? No way Swagger will win over guys like Henry or Jericho just to feed into a new "White American" vs "Mexican" angle. That program doesn't scream World Championship feud to me personally. Plus, I'd be so crushed if the only match on the horizon I care to see isn't as big as it possibly could be.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Its gonna be Henry vs Del Rio with Del Rio beating Henry putting him over big time.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I would be happy with either Del Rio/Henry or Jericho/Ziggler for the World Title match at WrestleMania. But I thought for sure Orton and Sheamus would be in the title picture come Mania. Maybe they will still feud with an Orton heel turn. The thing that changes imo is Del Rio got over so well with the face turn so they may not want to stop his momentum just yet when he's appealing so well with the Latino demographic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still see Del Rio's championship reign axed come Sunday. Hoping it is at least.

Oh, and to throw my hat in a previous discussion in here today. Fuck Hart vs Michaels Ironman. One of the worst matches I've ever seen. Undertaker trumps Michaels as Mr. WrestleMania.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

This breaking up of Rhode Scholars is hurting my brain. They have nothing for either man it seems and no team to take the titles off Hell No so they can complete their feud. The only other team with any credibility is CarStereo who are completely unreliable at the moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tensai & Brodus Clay. Boosh.

WWE knew Rhodes Scholara would float around with the tag team championship if they randomly got them before WrestleMania as it is. Maybe one of them will have a singles match for that event, or any type of match, and the answers will all be found.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bryan/Jericho - ***1/2

As far as the WHC scene is concerned, it's either gonna be Henry or Swagger winning the EC imo. Regarding who'll be champion, not sure.

My rankings for every EC btw:
SS 02: ****3/4
SSlam 03: ***
NYR 05: ****3/4
NYR 06: **3/4
DTD: **
SD 08: ***1/2
Raw 08: ****1/4
SD 09: ****1/2
Raw 09: ****1/2
Raw 10: ***3/4
SD 10: ****1/4
SD 11: ****1/2
Raw 11: ****
Raw 12: ****1/4
SD 12: ****


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

HayleySabin said:


> Tensai & Brodus Clay. Boosh.
> 
> WWE knew Rhodes Scholara would float around with the tag team championship if they randomly got them before WrestleMania as it is. Maybe one of them will have a singles match for that event, or any type of match, and the answers will all be found.












Leave the memories alone :batista3


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Top 5 Hulk Hogan matches:

5. vs Andre the Giant- WM 3
4. vs HBK- Summerslam 2005
3. vs The Rock- WM 18
2. vs Ultimate Warrior=- WM 6
1. vs Randy Savage- WM 5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RAW

Heyman promo to start off. Awesome. CM Punk welling up because me might be losing his best friend . He convinces him to stay. HUG IT OUT. Yey!

HENRY KILLS KHALI AND THE MIDGET.

Bryan Vs Jericho? :mark: Match was no Punk/Jericho but had a nice finishing stretch. Walls countered into the No Lock was pretty sweet. Codebreaker looked awesome, not sure if it was the camera angle or not, but damn, looked real good. Bryan, Henry, Jericho and Orton in the chamber so far? Yeah, pretty great. Still expecting Swagger in there which I like. Hope they don't fuck up the final spot.

Lol, poor 3MB. Totally crushed.

DUTCH MANTEL. Holy shit! Manager for Swagger? :lmao they've got him as Zebekiah again? Can we expect the BLU BROTHERS to show up any time soon? 

:lmao Dutch is a racist on the show. Awesome :lmao. Swagger gets put in the chamber. Surprised Booker let him in :lmao.

DOLPH AND AJ. Missed them last week. Mainly AJ. Ziggler in the chamber? Or Kane? Yeah I'd be super happy with either tbh. Potential to be an awesome match. Guessing Kane gets in to continue his shit with Bryan, with Ziggler maybe screwing Jericho somehow from the outside, setting up a WM match between the two.

SHIELD PROMO. :lmao Cena fails every day when he gets up and exists :lmao.

Some shit. I find it hilarious that Del Rio mocks Show by saying he cut his best promo ever by not saying anything, meanwhile Del Rio cuts a promo that Bo Dallas wouldn't be proud of.

Kane Vs Dolph. I'm a fan of their early 2010 matches, so I'm looking forward to this . Fun match. Kane in the chamber is fine with me. Chamber match looks awesome on paper.

Urgh, Rock's back. Nice of him to show up I suppose... Storytime with Rock. I prefer Storytime with Craig. He doesn't pander to the audience, HE'S REAL.

Jeff Jarrett mention. Crack head in a bar selling a car. Huh... this seems to be turning into a Storytime with Craig after all...

7 minutes into this promo. Wonder if he'll actually talk about anything with meaning. I mean, I hear he's the WWE champ and has a big match on PPV on Sunday. Perhaps he could promote said match? Oh he tells Punk to Bring It. Well I'm sold on the PPV now...

-------------------

Raw overall was pretty enjoyable. Second week in a row, though last week's show was definitely better and the most fun I've had watching Raw in years. Bryan/Jericho around ***, Punk/Jericho ***3/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love how they've advertised Rock on these shows like "THE ROCK WILL BE HERE LIVE TONIGHT!" as if it's a big deal that the WWE FUCKING CHAMPION is going to be on Monday Night Raw. Go back and watch that promo (actually, don't) and you'll realize that he doesn't mention the new stipulation added to his match ONCE. WAY TO SELL THE MATCH ROCK!

Fuck, I hope by some divine miracle Punk takes the belt back Sunday so I don't have to wait 6 weeks before Cena does it anyways.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jericho has been on an absolute tear since coming back for todays standards. Two ***+ TV matches on back to back Raws. I wish he never left. He brings out the best in others.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Really looking forward to the Chamber match now. I think I'd actually be happy to see anyone in there win it, and it's good that the winner is up in the air since creative could go in a number of different directions.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why they're going to give us something we'll all hate no doubt 

Ideally I'd love DOLPH-JERICHO to completely come into Mania and steal the show, but that can be done without the belt (much rather it be for the belt). That would also compromise MARK "RATINGS" HENRY's main event Wrestlemania spot that he NEEDS, so fuck that. Del Rio-Henry would be pretty good if Del Rio gets crushed and inducted into the Hall of Pain.

The Jericho-Bryan match was good, but inferior to Jericho-Punk in every way IMO, ***** - **** 1/4* for it, haven't really re-watched it. I'd still say Punk-Ryback is the WWE MOTY due to Punk's GOAT selling like a beast, but I'm thinking we get a four star match @ the chamber, whether it be the SHIELD or the WHC chamber match.

Rock-Punk will likely suck dick, unfortunately.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sad state of affairs in wrestling right now when I'm actually LOOKING FORWARD TO CENA WINNING THE WWE TITLE AT WRESTLEFUCKINGMANIA just so we can end the current reign (which is off to a TERRIBLE start. One shitty match to win the title, a shitty promo the next night, misses a week, then another shitty promo). Let's hope WWE give us a good old SWERVE and improve on the situation.

Honestly, I don't think it matter what the WHC match is at WM. WWE certainly won't care. Will likely OPEN THE SHOW for the THIRD YEAR IN A ROW anyway. And they've all been shit matches since they started opening the show. Edge/Rio was bad, then Sheamus/Bryan was 18 seconds.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I haven't really been reading any "dirtsheets" or anything , but honestly how the FUCK does Taker fir into any of these stories with just 6 weeks left until Mania ? Seems like they're going to run the "Punk is delusional and believes he's still champion" wagon into Mania , with Cena obviously in the title match, Rock in the WWE championship picture (obviously), and Lesnar involved in the Heyman/Mcmahon storyline. HELL, I'd argue with Punk being involved in two story arcs as of now, one with Heyman and one with ROCK.

I'm going to be 100 percent wrong on this one... But it certainly doesn't FEEL like we're headed for Rock/Cena II, HHH/Lesnar II , and Taker-Punk. 

Whatever, I have the finish Mania X-8 today but I also have to study. All that's left is Rock-Hogan, women's triple threat, and HHH-Jericho before I can finally move into XIX tomorrow. I'm going to drive myself into WRESTLEMANIA burnout 6 weeks before the fucking event even starts. I WOULD order Elimination Chamber but I don't wanna order something that's just gonna end in "LOL SWERVED, ROCK-CENA N HHH-LESNAR R STILL HAPPENIN'" so it looks like a stream for me. There's no way it can be as bad as the Rumble though, fuck that show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm starting to think that Undertaker isn't wrestling this year . Would have thought he'd have shown up by now to plant some seeds for WM. Unless he returns at EC, I'm honestly thinking he isn't showing up. WM just won't be the same without him though.

I should get on my WM watching and review thingy. But that means starting at WM 1 and working my way up. And they mostly suck balls for a decade or so. Then some hit and miss for a few years before things pick up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And why should he? To waste his precious talent and burn his body even more, especially considering he should keep himself in shape for WM 30 next year? I'd ask for not. I love Taker as much as the next guy, but if he wants to compete, let it be at Mania 30 vs Cena, and if he wrestles this year, chances may be he won't even make it to next year's Mania. Plus, who could he face? Punk? IMO that's not a great option, I disliked their 2009 matches and I would certainly dislike these as well. Lesnar is certainly an option, but that would mean putting Taker through severely physical and stiff competition, which would mean pretty much Taker's final match ever. Jericho perhaps, but I'm not sure. Anyone else, I'd say no.

I did do myself reviews of every WM - if you actually do that, take one two many shots, strong ones at that, before you put yourself through Manias 2, 4, 9, 11, 13 and 15. MY FUCKING GOD were those awful. Though 13 does have Bret vs Austin and an average Street Fight, everything else sucks. Even 27 is better in comparation.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Big Z said:


> *I'm starting to think that Undertaker isn't wrestling this year *. Would have thought he'd have shown up by now to plant some seeds for WM. Unless he returns at EC, I'm honestly thinking he isn't showing up. WM just won't be the same without him though.
> 
> I should get on my WM watching and review thingy. But that means starting at WM 1 and working my way up. And they mostly suck balls for a decade or so. Then some hit and miss for a few years before things pick up.


Of course you are :russo


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I thought it was HHH who wouldn't be wrestling this year but who knows. The card is starting to take shape - Jericho/Ziggler and Bryan/Kane look like certainties and I'm sure they will be after this Sunday - but there's still a lot up in the air regarding the big matches on the show. HHH/Lesnar II, Lesnar/Taker and Punk/Taker are all distinct possibilities, as are Rock/Cena II, Rock/Cena/Punk and maybe even Rock/Lesnar.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

From reports Undertaker has lost a lot of weight over the last three weeks. And with Paul Heyman saying to Punk that he thinks something really bad is going to happen to him last night. 

Yeah. Punk V Taker seems as if its happening.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OK, with WM coming up, it's time to put up some more CONTRAVERSY with this next list - brought to you by WeAreProWrestling:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The worst Wrestlemania is I. I don't even care about giving that away, it's honestly one of the worst shows I've ever had the misfortune of sitting through in my entire life. "BUT KINGS, IT"S ABOUT DA PAGEANTWY!" ... Fuck the pageantry, I want some good wrestling or something worth any entertainment value whatsoever, not this shit.... The first DECENT Wrestlemania is V, and I'm sticking with that as III is a total fucking one match show.

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for VII-IX because of BOBBY FUCKING HEENAN'S GOAT COMMENTARY, but 8 of the first 15 Wrestlemanias are downright HORRENDOUS. Within the first 15 Wrestlemania's there's like ONE show I'd consider to be "great" and maybe another "really good" one. Wrestlemania always has just as much bad as it does good FFS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Taker would certainly help make up for Rock/Cena II and HHH/Lesnar II for me . I like their 09 series, feel its underrated just because their matches were usually short. Their SD 2010 match was a top 5 MOTY imo too, so I'd definitely welcome BEST IN THE WORLD PUNK Vs Undertaker.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=100951

Uh, oh...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Punk/Taker would certainly help make up for Rock/Cena II and HHH/Lesnar II for me . I like their 09 series, feel its underrated just because their matches were usually short. Their SD 2010 match was a top 5 MOTY imo too, so I'd definitely welcome BEST IN THE WORLD PUNK Vs Undertaker.


I agree here. Their matches were far too short. Plus, didn't Punk get in trouble backstage before the HIAC PPV for saying something out of line, which bascially led to 'Taker squashing him inside 10 minutes in the cell?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not gonna give too many things away but I just watched Hogan and I have one problem with it ; in the build to the match Hogan essentially tried to KILL Rock by nailing his ambulance with a transport truck, and now they just come out and have a stare down like it's not personal..

WHAT. THE. FUCK. HE TRIED TO KILL THE ROCK !


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The worst Wrestlemania is I. I don't even care about giving that away, it's honestly one of the worst shows I've ever had the misfortune of sitting through in my entire life. "BUT KINGS, IT"S ABOUT DA PAGEANTWY!" ... Fuck the pageantry, I want some good wrestling or something worth any entertainment value whatsoever, not this shit.... The first DECENT Wrestlemania is V, and I'm sticking with that as III is a total fucking one match show.
> 
> I've always had a soft spot in my heart for VII-IX because of BOBBY FUCKING HEENAN'S GOAT COMMENTARY, but 8 of the first 15 Wrestlemanias are downright HORRENDOUS. Within the first 15 Wrestlemania's there's like ONE show I'd consider to be "great" and maybe another "really good" one. Wrestlemania always has just as much bad as it does good FFS


BUT KINGS, ITS ABOUT DA HISTORY SIGNIFICANCE...

Nah jk. Yeah WM I had bullshit wrestling, but it's not like 1985 booking was superb. Not to mention, it IS the 1st WM - had it failed, we all wouldn't be getting Taker vs. HBK's or Bret vs. Austin's, etc. I mean, do you REALLY consider I worse than II or XI?

Lemme guess which were the 7 that didn't suck in your opinion - XIV, X, VII, VIII, V, VI and IX. Right?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Got my DVD's that I ordered the other day (both Edge DVD's, Punk's BITW DVD, WrestleMania 24). Popped in WrestleMania 24 and watched two matches:

Finlay vs JBL - Belfast Brawl - *****

This was fun to watch because I'd never seen this match before. Immediately during JBL's entrance I was reminded how bad the feud was at the time with the Hornswoggle/Vince illegitimate son storyline, then Finlay been made the father, ugh. Finlay's character was already ruined at this point due to this, but when it came to the match Finlay was still the tough Irish bastard he always was. Was a decent brawl that got the crowd excited for the rest of the show, I liked JBL's repeated shots at Hornswoggle in the match, the slap and then throwing the trash can at him when he got up. :lol JBL hitting Finlay in the head with a trash can lid off an attempt at a suicide dive was just sick and the highlight of the match. Just a nice fun brawl here, would recommend watching it.

Chris Jericho, vs Carlito, vs John Morrison, vs Shelton Benjamin, vs Mr. Kennedy, vs MVP vs CM Punk - MITB ladder match - *****1/2*

This match was awesome. I think I watched this match one time before on YouTube but I couldn't remember much of it, but I think it may very well be the best MITB ladder match. The spots like Morrison's moonsault with the ladder, the tower of doom off the ladder, Shelton's diving flip crash through the ladder, Shelton once again proving why he was the best in those matches. Carlito's backstabber off the ladder, Matt Hardy's surprise return to stop MVP winning the match by delivering a twist of fate off the ladder, which the crowd went crazy for, so many great spots in this match and MITB ladder matches are all about spots so I think this may put it is as the best one. Punk obviously getting the win here, but at the time I preferred MVP more and I would liked him to won.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Pretty sure Jeff Hardy was escalated to win the WM 24 MITB match, but he got pulled off that match because of violating the Wellness Policy and got suspended. As far as why him winning 2 times in a row, not sure.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Didn't Punk win at 25 because Jeff failed the wellness policy so they needed someone to take the title off him, so they had Punk cash in on him and turn heel to setup the Punk/Hardy feud.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I`m not going to say too much, but out of the first 15 Wrestlemanias I have only FIVE that have scored higher than 10 on the OFFICIAL CAL SCALE. To put that into context so that everybody can understand what that means, HELL IN A CELL 2012 GOT A 12 ON THE CAL SCALE. Up until X-7 we were getting shitty Wrestlemanias 2 out of every 3 years, where as post Mania X-7 we've gotten (to my knowledge, need to REWATCH obviousy) like... NONE of them below 10 on the CAL SCALE.

I think that has more to do with wrestling evolving than anything else.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

We should know the Mania card in 2 weeks, 3 at a stretch. That gives them the post Chamber Raw and the week after to sort their shit out, for Brock/HHH/Taker to make their returns if they're going to happen and leaves 5 weeks of full build to Mania to continue/progress feuds. At the minute though, the only thing I'm certain of is Rock/Cena II. Everything else is up in the air.


----------



## djmathers1207 (Sep 9, 2011)

the new IYH DVD looks awesome and is a definite must buy


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Del Rio is getting over. Can't see them pulling the trigger on his title reign to put the belt on Ziggler before Mania. They can do Jericho/Ziggler without the title.


I think the top two matches for Wrestlemania from the SD side will be Henry/ADR for the World title and Ziggler/Jericho for the Money in the Bank briefcase, possibly (hopefully) in a Ladder match. Henry wins the Chamber match and Ziggler runs into the chamber and costs Chris Jericho the match, which leads to Henry getting the win.

As for the WWE Championship picture, a triple threat match just makes sense at this point, especially if CM Punk takes the title off The Rock at Elimination Chamber, which I can see happening in some screwy fashion. I really don't think The Undertaker is competing this year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've said for weeks now im not very optimistic regarding Taker at Mania this year, I dunno it just doesn't feel right atm regarding who he may be facing, with Punk being the most obvious,

I love the Taker and id jump up like a little kid if he appears on Raw soon, but as long as he's fit and healthy of course, if he needs a year off to fully concentrate on trying get to Mania 30 im fine with that,

Saying that, plz come back Taker!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love how every single big angle in the WWE ends with either Cena or Triple H on top. I'm serious, just look at the last few years ; 

- Longest title reign of the last 25 years is all for a build up to Rock/Cena where Cena will come out on top.

- Summer of Punk somehow ends in December with a HHH/Nash Sledgehammer ladder match.

- Nexus ends with Cena effectively squashing them like a bug.

- Brock comes back ; Cena on top. Brock beats Hunter and now we have a potential for a GAME getting his win back scenario (possible).

:cena2

The WWE creative team should be all fired for how they handled Lesnar's return / Mania XXIX in general. I mean, this was the EASIEST fucking thing to book ever ;

- Randy Orton defeats Kane @ Wrestlemania

- Lesnar comes back night after Wrestlemania but doesn't target Cena, randomly destroys Orton and gets his first match @ Extreme Rules where Orton basically gets like one move of offense in but gets squashed like a bug.

- The exact same things happen with GAME after that leading up to Summerslam where he breaks Trips' arm again and claims he's the true king of kings and such (change nothing here).

- Comes back and wrecks more shit for Heyman, eliminates Cena from Rumble or bursts into the chamber and destroys Cena or something

- @ RAW 1000 Rock announces he's challenging for the WWE Championship @ Wrestlemania.

- Wrestlemania XXIX ; Punk-Rock, Brock-Cena.

I know we got one of the greatest matches ever in BROCK-CENA because of Extreme Rules, but do you think they could have fucking held off on one of the biggest matches they could do EVER for next years Wrestlemania ? It's almost like if Rock had to come back @ WM XXVII and they did Rock-Cena @ Extreme Rules. Besides, they literally could have did the EXACT SAME THING @ Wrestlemania match-wise as the Extreme Rules match.

WERE THEY HIGH ? I seriously think Lesnar losing was a sort of peace offering to the company he left behind honestly. Kind of like "okay, I left you guys with nothing and now you're giving me all of this money, I better put over your top guy right away".

BLOWS my mind how they screwed this up. :vince


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Got my DVD's that I ordered the other day (both Edge DVD's, Punk's BITW DVD, WrestleMania 24). Popped in WrestleMania 24 and watched two matches:
> 
> Finlay vs JBL - Belfast Brawl - *****
> 
> ...


(Y)

Finlay/JBL was fun indeed and that MITB might be favorite of the bunch, either that or the first one. 24 is a great Mania.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I still think that 23 was my all time favorite MITB, but 24 was damn good as well. I'm" still shocked MVP didn't break into the ME scene in 2008, who was on top of Smackdown during that time? Triple H, Edge, Jeff Hardy and Vladamir Kozlov I think they definitely had room but at least he got a shot at Unforgiven.

Also, as far as Mania is concerned I'm" looking at: Cena/Rock II, Lesnar/HHH, Punk/Taker (if Taker wrestles), maybe Ziggler/Jericho + Team Hell No match and a Divas Match. I mean you're leaving A LOT of guys off the card like Ryback, Orton, Del Rio, Sheamus, Big Show and others so who really knows. ADR has really grown on me as babyface and I kind of don't want him to drop the belt so quickly; I don't know what they're going to do with the World Title @ Mania.
____

*Kendrick & London vs. Regal & Taylor vs. The Hardys vs. MNM (12/17/2006)- *****
-Not sure if I’ve ever talked about this match before other than a passing mention but I love this match. Balls to the wall insanity with everyone getting a chance to shine and working in some brutal spots. I liked how they portrayed The Hardys as the ladder veterans and watching Regal & Taylor beating the piss out of anything that moved was a thing of beauty (not to mention their fear of heights). The infamous ladder to Mercury’s face notwithstanding, plenty of awesome spots in this match like the PIM and rope spots with Jeff/Nitro/London; Regal’s HNS to London on the ladder was sick as was the Ladder Powerbomb from Jeff and the Sliced Bread off the Ladder that looked like it killed Spanky, finish comes when London grabs the belts. This match was a game of “can you top this?” and they did without measure. Add JBL putting over the match, the Tag titles, the wrestlers and the Smackdown Brand and you got a recipe for an epic match. How tag team wrestling died in WWE I’ll never understand.

*Batista vs. Rey Mysterio (11/22/2009)- *****
-Extremely good match from these guys as they worked a very crisp big man/little man dynamic. Some good back and forth in the first half with realistic offense on both sides; they did a great job of timing all of the big spots and kept the pace rolling from bell to bell. The finish was excellently done with Big Dave destroying Rey accompanied with some phenomenal facial work, especially the ending. With only roughly 3 weeks of buildup, it’s a testament to these guys’ abilities that they made this feel like a big match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

After last nights Punk/Heyman fiasco, I wouldn't be totally shocked if we got Punk/Lesnar at WM. Not predicting it, but that would be something.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just wanna pop in and say this is probably the most excited I've been for a WWE PPV since Extreme Rules last year. The card they've already put together for Elimination Chamber looks ridiculously good, and it's not even complete yet. Here's my thoughts/predictions:

1. I really have no idea what's gonna happen in *Punk/Rock II. *My hopes would be Punk winning (either clean or shenanigans, idc) but I just REALLY do not wanna see Cena/Rock II. For christ sake, 'once in a lifetime' is not a moniker you just throw around and produce a DVD out of if you're gonna do it again next year. I do think someone will get screwed, leading up to a Triple Threat match at Mania, main eventing that puppy. That way you could disguise some of Rock's ring rust and weaknesses by throwing in the No DQ element. Just have em go balls out, WM XX style.

2. *Smackdown Elimination Chamber *is insanely unredictable on so many levels. Mark Henry is fucking awesome, getting pushed hard in his return, and probably becomes the favorite. If he won, I'd have no problem with it. Chris Jericho has been on fire, and normally comes back for a reason, so I can certainly see him winning it. Daniel Bryan is a fucking machine and it'd be pretty sweet to see him finally get an actual Mania match, especially for the World Title. I'm a fan of Orton but the guy has no damn direction and no business being in any major title picture right now, so he can fuck off. Kane & Swagger are the obvious odd men out. They'll make the match somewhat interesting, but will probably be the first two eliminated.

3. *Del Rio vs. Show* has been a pretty entertaining feud, not gonna lie, but it needs to end with a bang. Personally think it needs a stipulation (maybe Falls Count Anywhere?), but either way I think neither one of these guys will leave with the Title. I expect a Del Rio win after taking a huge beating, & FINALLY a Ziggler cash in. If Del rio wins, I want Del Rio/Henry. If show wins, I want Show/Bryan. Just for the love of god, no Orton.

4. *Team Cena vs. The Shield *should be a blast. I've read they're supposed to turn it into another Chamber match, no? If they do (War Games Style) then FUCK YES. If not, it'll still be fun. I expect Team Cena to win in clean fashion though. 

5. Don't care about the Divas Title match. But to round out the card I believe we'll get Cesaro/Miz, where Cesaro better go over again.

*Mania Predictions:*

Punk/Rock/Cena for the WWE Title
Ziggler/Jericho for the World Title
Brock/HHH II or Brock/Taker (if Taker comes back, I don't see Hunter on the card)

*Dream Matches that probably won't happen at Mania:

*Lesnar vs. Sheamus
Cesaro vs. Bryan for the US Title
Ziggler vs. Bryan for the World Title


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That reminds me, before I watch the Juve/Celtic match, think I'll finally give Brock/HHH a second watch...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My head would explode from excitement if Heyman sent Brock to attack Punk to get him back the title and Lesnar missed or something leading to Punk/Brock.

Heading into Wrestlemania XIX neither HBK or Undertaker would be in my top 3 for Mr. Wrestlemania.... Wow what a decade those two have had for sure. I'm seriously starting to think that Taker AND Shawn should have retired @ XXVI giving us the greatest Wrestlemania moment ever but it's cool since we got the Trips matches and perhaps some Punk/Lesnar/Cena matches in the future.

My predictions are the same *JE187.* Inside though, I KNOW we're getting Rock-Cena II and the first step is always denial. FUCK.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> My head would explode from excitement if Heyman sent Brock to attack Punk to get him back the title and Lesnar missed or something leading to Punk/Brock.
> 
> Heading into Wrestlemania XIX neither HBK or Undertaker would be in my top 3 for Mr. Wrestlemania.... Wow what a decade those two have had for sure. I'm seriously starting to think that Taker AND Shawn should have retired @ XXVI giving us the greatest Wrestlemania moment ever but it's cool since we got the Trips matches and perhaps some Punk/Lesnar/Cena matches in the future.
> 
> My predictions are the same *JE187.* Inside though, I KNOW we're getting Rock-Cena II and the first step is always denial. FUCK.


All Cena's going to do with that title is keep it warm for Ryback. I expect Ryback to beat Cena sometime in the summer around MITB or Summerslam time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd rather scientists invent a way to preserve Cena's brain so they can place it in a cyborg body, resulting in Cena holding the title and "overcoming the odds" every time for 300 years long after I'm dead than to drop it to Ryback. If you think CENA is bad , then you have NO IDEA what you're asking for if you're clamoring for a Ryback WWE title reign. He's nearly immobile FFS


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> My predictions are the same *JE187.* Inside though, I KNOW we're getting Rock-Cena II and the first step is always denial. FUCK.


:lmao

I accepted the fact that Rock/Cena II is happening a LONG time ago. It doesn't even bother me any more tbh. It's happening and there's absolutely nothing I can do to change it. I have accepted it and moved on. Nothing else you can do at this point really.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

If it's Jericho/Ziggler for the WHC at WM, isn't that a waste of his briefcase? What's the point of him having the briefcase if he already has a title shot going into WM?

I don't know if this is possible under the MITB briefcase rules, but if it is allowed, can anyone see the following happening?

Ziggler/Jericho for WHC (Jericho the Champ going into the match). Ziggler loses to Jericho clean. Ziggler could lose in a freak way, where he has the clear advantage most of the match, but Jericho somehow pulls it out in the end. Ziggler is pissed as hell after the match and Jericho, despite winning, and clearly the more hurt of the two. So after the match ends, Ziggler then uses his MITB briefcase and takes advantage of Jericho still being in pain, and wins the title.

If that is allowed, that would be creative and something different for sure.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> If it's Jericho/Ziggler for the WHC at WM, isn't that a waste of his briefcase? What's the point of him having the briefcase if he already has a title shot going into WM?
> 
> I don't know if this is possible under the MITB briefcase rules, but if it is allowed, can anyone see the following happening?
> 
> ...


Huh? Jericho wouldn't be the champ, he'd be the no. 1 contender. We're saying it'll be Ziggler/Jericho with Ziggler being the champ after cashing in on Del Rio or Show after their match this Sunday.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Jericho/Bryan - ***1/4
Kane/Ziggler - **1/2

Actually enjoyed Kane/Ziggler.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Kane/Ziggler was a decent match. Kane always works good with guys like Ziggler


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Huh? Jericho wouldn't be the champ, he'd be the no. 1 contender. We're saying it'll be Ziggler/Jericho with Ziggler being the champ after cashing in on Del Rio or Show after their match this Sunday.


I know what you were saying. I'm talking about a different scenario, as in Jericho being the champ going into WM. That's what I want to see. He's signed through WM, so I'd like to see him getting a short run with the title before he leaves. Fuck Del Rio, Show, and Henry for all I care.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I know what you were saying. I'm talking about a different scenario, as in Jericho being the champ going into WM. That's what I want to see. He's signed through WM, so I'd like to see him getting a short run with the title before he leaves. Fuck Del Rio, Show, and Henry for all I care.


Ah, okay. Well I don't know how that's possible, honestly. There would have to be a whole bunch of crazy twists and turns goin down on Smackdown and Ziggler would have to pull an Edge to get into the Chamber. Plus idk when or how Jericho would win the strap.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ah, okay. Well I don't know how that's possible, honestly. There would have to be a whole bunch of crazy twists and turns goin down on Smackdown and Ziggler would have to pull an Edge to get into the Chamber. Plus idk when or how Jericho would win the strap.


I know. It's not going to happen. Too much crap in the mix for that title.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lesnar/HHH - ****

I finally 'got' this match on second viewing, Brock was once again fantastic, that fucking jump by him on the outside, think he reached the moon before hitting Hunter lol, enjoyed and appreciated it much more second time around.

Oh, fuck the crowd for most of the match too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The crowds in LA for Summerslam are always pretty bad TBH.

They saw two AWESOME main events in a row in 2011 and 2012 and they were lukewarm for both. Fuck the Staples Center, not as bad as ATLANTA for crowds but not exactly Chicago/New York/ anywhere north east or mid west that's not Texas


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I need to watch Punk/Cena SS11 again. First few times I liked it. The most recent time I tried to watch it though I ended up turning it off because it was boring me. DEM EXTREME REACTIONS.

Trips/Brock is awesome though. Love that match and while I won't exactly be thrilled if a rematch happens, I won't be devastated either, especially if there's a stip attached and they go out there and kill each other. They can't work a match like they did SS again so they'll have to up the ante. I guess if you look at it that way, a war is most likely on the cards and I'm perfectly fine with that. 

In fact, I think the reason I'm so fine with Mania this year is because I'm not going. I reckon that if I was paying the money to travel over there etc I'd be a lot more angry/invested in what's going to happen and what's not. But because I'm giving it a miss this year, I'm feeling pretty much meh about what goes down. I'd rather they save the BIG matches for Mania 30 so I can see them live. If they want to do 2 rematches this year then let them do it lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Texas actually has decent crowds - i.e. Houston.

Top 5 WM and Starrcade Main Events? (And top 5 worst too)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

5. John Cena vs The Rock- WM28
4. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels- WM 26
3. The Rock vs Stone Cold- WM 15
2. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - WM 25
1. Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant- WM 3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just wrote a big piece about how Rock/Cena actually has a reason to exist unlike Trips/Lesnar but I accidentally erased it so FUCK. Basically the point of it was that Cena should have rightfully won the first one, so it'll be good for him to get his win back here in all honesty and end the Rock/Cena arc once and for all. 

Trips-Lesnar on the other hand is DONE. Lesnar broke the arm, they had the match, Lesnar broke the arm again and there's literally NOWHERE to go from here honestly. The fact that they're hinting at some Heyman/Punk/Brock/Vince Mania storyline makes me believe Trips isn't working at Mania this year.

I can't decide which match I adore more in Brock/Trips and Punk/Cena. Believe it or not I think both are the two greatest Summerslam main events of all time and it isn't even close seriously. I don't know which one would be one and which one would be two TBH.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, the crowd didn't give a fuck at all about HHH/Lesnar. It was an alright match. It was on Classics on Demand a couple weeks back, so I got to see it again. The finish makes no sense, though. I like how Triple H picks on an issue that Brock deals with in real life, his stomach. Great story-telling and completely logical...until the finish. Triple H pedigrees Brock for a 2nd time (in this case, the pedigree is a perfect finisher to hurt Brock, since he lands flat on his stomach in the pedigree). So, Brock eats a *2nd* pedigree, a move that should hurt the shit out of his stomach, since he has real life stomach issues and Triple H had been working on his stomach throughout the match. But then Brock completely no sells the 2nd pedigree AND locks in the Kimora lock and makes Triple H tap.

I can deal with the occasional no sell. But no selling a real life issue that had even been pointed out in commentary? Didn't like that. Still a pretty good match, but the finish is fucked. ***1/2 - ***3/4


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> (Y)
> Finlay/JBL was fun indeed and that MITB might be favorite of the bunch, either that or the first one. 24 is a great Mania.


(Y)

Love the first MITB match, and the caliber of talent were better in that match, but I think WrestleMania 24 MITB match might just be my favorite. Might have to watch the first MITB match again now, even though I've seen it many times. It's a match I can just watch over and over again. 24's a decent show, will soon re-watch Flair/HBK and Edge/Taker and give my thoughts/ratings on them. 



Matt_Yoda said:


> I still think that 23 was my all time favorite MITB, but 24 was damn good as well. I'm" still shocked MVP didn't break into the ME scene in 2008, who was on top of Smackdown during that time? Triple H, Edge, Jeff Hardy and Vladamir Kozlov I think they definitely had room but at least he got a shot at Unforgiven.


MVP should of been a main-eventer and World Champion. He was awesome in 2007/2008, after that they ruined him by jobbing him out and turning him face. I'd much rather have MVP main-eventing over Vladamir Kozlov back then.



Matt_Yoda said:


> Also, as far as Mania is concerned I'm" looking at: Cena/Rock II, Lesnar/HHH, Punk/Taker (if Taker wrestles), maybe Ziggler/Jericho + Team Hell No match and a Divas Match.


Agreed on those matches, I think there also could be Henry/Ryback and maybe Orton/Sheamus. Del Rio's bound to be on the card to, probably in the World Title match. My dream World Title match for Mania is Ziggler/Jericho, but I think Del Rio will be in it. If Ziggler cashes in at EC then Del Rio could use his rematch clause for a match at Mania, in addition to the winner of the number one contender Chamber match to setup a potential triple threat for Mania for the World Title.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The only way they can sneak in a reason for a Brock/HHH II is the fact that Lesnar F-5'd Vince, so they could have the very flimsy excuse for Hunter to come back and save the day..............again, and get his win 'back' probably.

Or its DAT legendary burying ego thing..


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The most interesting thing I'm looking forward to the crowds reaction to Cena's win. Hope for complete silence.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hunter is essentially a Wrestlemania jobber , so I doubt he'd feel the need to get "his win back" , seriously. The more I hear about CORPORATE GAME, the more and more I think his next match isn't going to be for another while honestly.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I sort of agree that Rock/Cena II is the right thing to do. In a way it kind of is. It was a precarious situation. Usually the current guy should go over the past guy. But Mania was in Miami and John Cena isn't your average star shall we say. Half the fans hate his guts, probably even more than that and I was there in Sunlife Stadium. I have absolutely no doubt that 99.9% of the people in there paid their money to see The Rock beat John Cena that night. It's what the people wanted and I think WWE made the right call in having Rock go over. That still leaves the problem of the past going over the present. That isn't right. By having the rematch, Cena goes over, WWE is able to imprint that the current generation IS as good as the past generation and their current top guy gets his biggest win ever. I thought about it that way and I can totally understand why Rock/Cena kind of needs to happen. 

Trips/Brock doesn't need to happen though, 100% agreed on that. Brock didn't want the first match, Trips goaded him into it, got his arm broken twice and then tapped out. Brock won decisively and quit. It ended. Now he's back attacking Vince. Triple H has a reason to want a rematch but Brock doesn't. If it does indeed happen, I don't know how they get him to accept. I guess they could use HHH's career as the carrot to dangle in front of Lesnar's face to get him to agree so he can end the game once and for all. I just don't know. Given the reaction of some LA fans to the ending of the last match though, I don't think it's particularly wise of them to go that particular route in New York of all places. The potential is there for the fans to shit all over it and like him or not, Trips doesn't deserve that as his retirement send off. Nobody does.

But hey, all will become clear in 2/3 weeks time. Not long to wait now. At this rate though, I'm starting to think either Trips or Taker isn't working Mania. Food for thought, HHH is on the Mania 29 promo bus while Taker isn't, meanwhile, Taker is in the Mania 29 promo ad while HHH isn't. DAT DECEPTION.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Hunter is essentially a Wrestlemania jobber , so I doubt he'd feel the need to get "his win back" , seriously. The more I hear about CORPORATE GAME, the more and more I think his next match isn't going to be for another while honestly.


I certainly hope your right mate, a Lesnar/Punk confrontation could be very good indeed if they do it right.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> I'm starting to think that Undertaker isn't wrestling this year . Would have thought he'd have shown up by now to plant some seeds for WM. Unless he returns at EC, I'm honestly thinking he isn't showing up. WM just won't be the same without him though.


I would be worried if he doesn't show up or announced for a return next Monday. That's when the RTWM really gets into gear after getting past the hurdle that is the February PPV - Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder why Hunter said at the Slammys that "You ain't seen the last of the undertaker", was a deal being discussed then but has since maybe fell apart, or did he just mean furthur down the line re: taker's next appearance.

But if course, noone knows so the next fortnight will be 'interesting'.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I doubt BROCK kayfabe wise would even care about ending the GAME's career though, seeing as how he's owned Triple H practically every single time they've been in the ring together and Trips hasn't cost Lesnar anything in the first place. Literally the ONLY WAY Triple H - Lesnar II happens is for a Vince-Heyman control of the WWE stipulation of some sorts.

The way Heyman said said that something bad was going to happen to Punk is definitely foreshadowing something though, whether it be Punk-Brock, Punk-Taker,or whatever.

EDIT : If Taker or GAME doesn't show up to Mania next week you can pretty much rest assured that they aren't showing up for Mania, no matter who it is. We knew Trips/Taker was happening the day after EC 2011 and Trips/Taker II was happening pretty much the day after the Royal Rumble last year. 

Rock, Brock, and Cena are pretty much the three biggest players heading into Wrestlemania, with Rock/Cena being the match that sells the PPV and BROCK'S match co-main eventing. I pray to god HHH and Taker show up (not HHH-Lesnar FFS though) but if they were ever going to take a year off this would be the right one.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Brock w/Heyman vs. HHH w/Vince for control of the company would be pretty cool. Brock could go over and the Heyman guys could run shit until Survivor Series or something where a big team war erupts for re-control of the company or something. Who the fuck knows. I just keep telling myself that we'll find out in the next 2/3 weeks. I can live with that.

In other news, I hope WWE announce Mania XXX in New Orleans this Sunday so I can start organising things. Get the flight in early to get it cheap and then dedicate the rest of my savings to either a VIP or Platinum package depending on how much I end up with. This might be my last one too so I want to make it the best it can be concerning seats etc. Last time I was ringside was Mania 26. Needs to happen again and hopefully it will. 

I know *Clique *has been to several Manias. Anybody else in here had the luxury of attending live?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Didn't Vince say he wanted something from Heyman for the stip being added to Rock/Punk? I thought that was how HHH/Brock was going to be set up.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> In other news, I hope WWE announce Mania XXX in New Orleans this Sunday so I can start organising things. Get the flight in early to get it cheap and then dedicate the rest of my savings to either a VIP or Platinum package depending on how much I end up with. This might be my last one too so I want to make it the best it can be concerning seats etc. Last time I was ringside was Mania 26. Needs to happen again and hopefully it will.
> 
> I know *Clique *has been to several Manias. *Anybody else in here had the luxury of attending live?*


Nope. I haven't even been to a any WWE show before, let alone a WrestleMania.  It's a dream of mine to one day go to one though, me and my younger brother are thinking about going to one in a few years, but it would take a lot of planning, research on travel, money saving etc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was planning on going to XXX until my brother dropped the news that we're going to Foxborough next fall to watch the Patriots play the Broncos in a Tom Brady - Peyton Manning showdown. He grew up a Colts fan and I grew up a Patriots fan so this is the game we've always talked about going to live, and being Canadian (from NFLD, a fucking ISLAND) we never ever get to see anything like that so that should be cool.

Over the past two years I've seen Hogan, Bret, Piper, and a few other big names @ indy shows here, the local promotions are fucking awesome at bringing in big names for their supershows. If WRASSLEMANIA ever comes to Canada again I'll be going 600 percent but if not , safe money's on me going to XXI as long if it isn't in the south somewhere. LA is out of the picture for XXI since they have Summerslam every year, NY/NJ is out since they're having it this year, so is Miami... They're gonna want a big football stadium more than likely holding 70 000 - 85 000 people (where they can try and break the indoor attendance record) so it's more than likely gonna be one of Cowboys Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, or Jacksonville or some shit since they have one in Florida every 3-4 years FFS.

The best place to have it IMO would be Safeco field. You could easily get 50 000 plus in there, but the stadium is designed so that crowd noise is reflected back to the CENTER OF THE STADIUM, meaning the noise from the crowd would be almost deafening if you were there. It would seem like the best crowd of all time if WRASSLEMANIA was held there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I know *Clique *has been to several Manias. Anybody else in here had the luxury of attending live?


So far this year will be my first time, unless Taker doesn't end up having a match and we get Rock/Cena II and Lesnar/HHH II. In that case, I'll just save my money for next year. Hell, even if Punk is added into Rock/Cena and we get a triple threat, if Taker's not there I still don't think I'll go. In fact, only way I'd end up going for a fact whether Taker is there or not is if we get Rock/Lesnar, which right now just isn't happening.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I went to 10, 12, 14, 19, 25, and 26. All I can say is I'm very lucky to have a relative in a high place. Despite this years WM being literally 15 mins from my apartment I'm not going. Just not feeling this years storiez/matchez. If HBK was wrestling, I'd be there in a nano.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I was planning on going to XXX until my brother dropped the news that we're going to Foxborough next fall to watch the Patriots play the Broncos in a Tom Brady - Peyton Manning showdown. He grew up a Colts fan and I grew up a Patriots fan so this is the game we've always talked about going to live, and being Canadian (from NFLD, a fucking ISLAND) we never ever get to see anything like that so that should be cool.
> 
> Over the past two years I've seen Hogan, Bret, Piper, and a few other big names @ indy shows here, the local promotions are fucking awesome at bringing in big names for their supershows. If WRASSLEMANIA ever comes to Canada again I'll be going 600 percent but if not , safe money's on me going to XXI as long if it isn't in the south somewhere. LA is out of the picture for XXI since they have Summerslam every year, NY/NJ is out since they're having it this year, so is Miami... They're gonna want a big football stadium more than likely holding 70 000 - 85 000 people (where they can try and break the indoor attendance record) so it's more than likely gonna be one of Cowboys Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, or Jacksonville or some shit since they have one in Florida every 3-4 years FFS.
> 
> *The best place to have it IMO would be Safeco field. You could easily get 50 000 plus in there, but the stadium is designed so that crowd noise is reflected back to the CENTER OF THE STADIUM, meaning the noise from the crowd would be almost deafening if you were there. It would seem like the best crowd of all time if WRASSLEMANIA was held there.*


Ya may already know it but Mania 19 WAS in the Safeco Field.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Rawk said:


> So far this year will be my first time, unless Taker doesn't end up having a match and we get Rock/Cena II and Lesnar/HHH II. In that case, I'll just save my money for next year. Hell, even if Punk is added into Rock/Cena and we get a triple threat, if Taker's not there I still don't think I'll go. In fact, only way I'd end up going for a fact whether Taker is there or not is if we get Rock/Lesnar, which right now just isn't happening.


I think if WrestleMania is in your city or nearby you should attend, particularly if you have never been to one of these big events and if you have the means to go of course. You will enjoy and forever remember the atmosphere and the spectacle if you're not that into anything else. That's just my opinion on the matter as a lifelong WWE fan. I still don't think you have to worry about Taker not in the show. Even if he wasn't wrestling I could see him making an appearance so people get "The Undertaker's Entrance" which is an awe-inspiring thing to see live especially for a Taker fan.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ Brock w/Heyman vs. HHH w/Vince for control of the company would be pretty cool. Brock could go over and the Heyman guys could run shit until Survivor Series or something where a big team war erupts for re-control of the company or something. Who the fuck knows. I just keep telling myself that we'll find out in the next 2/3 weeks. I can live with that.
> 
> In other news, I hope WWE announce Mania XXX in New Orleans this Sunday so I can start organising things. Get the flight in early to get it cheap and then dedicate the rest of my savings to either a VIP or Platinum package depending on how much I end up with. This might be my last one too so I want to make it the best it can be concerning seats etc. Last time I was ringside was Mania 26. Needs to happen again and hopefully it will.
> 
> I know *Clique *has been to several Manias. Anybody else in here had the luxury of attending live?


I went to 24, 25 & 26 hoping t0 finally get back for 30.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was always planning to go to 30, mainly because I expected it to be in MSG and shit. LOL. Anyway, no way I'll have that kind of cash by next year with me still not working. WM will always be the dream. Until then, more random house shows and TV tapings when they come to Sheffield. Especially since I can get free tickets these days.

Even though I've never been to a WM, I have been very lucky with certain matches I've seen and certain wrestlers I've got to see live.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Clique said:


> I think if WrestleMania is in your city or nearby you should attend, particularly if you have never been to one of these big events and if you have the means to go of course. You will enjoy and forever remember the atmosphere and the spectacle if you're not that into anything else. That's just my opinion on the matter as a lifelong WWE fan. I still don't think you have to worry about Taker not in the show. Even if he wasn't wrestling I could see him making an appearance so people get "The Undertaker's Entrance" which is an awe-inspiring thing to see live especially for a Taker fan.


Only thing is if I do end up going this year, I more than likely won't be able to afford to go next year... well with good seats anyway. If Taker isn't announced for a match, I think I may just end up taking my chances and waiting until next year.

Though even if Taker isn't there, if they do a triple threat WWE Title match, I'll still consider going and hope Taker does make a special appearance of some kind. But if Rock/Cena and Lesnar/HHH are the two big matches and only two big matches, I'll say screw it. I just can't bring myself to care for them in the slightest and won't waste my money for a Mania with re-matches (re-matches by the way of matches I wasn't THAT into originally) when we'll get fresher matches (hopefully) for WM30 (Taker/Cena and Lesnar/Rock please).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm not sure if I want to go to New Orleans for WM 30. I did go to Houston for WM25 which isn't an appealing city to me for a trip but I guess I was just there for the show. Miami was fun last year along with the WWE activities that weekend. I just might wait for them to return to Chicago or the Midwest in a couple years.



Big Z said:


> Even though I've never been to a WM, I have been very lucky with certain matches I've seen and certain wrestlers I've got to see live.


You got to see Taker/Jericho and Christian/Regal live (Y)


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I'd go to New Orleans if I could. Seems like a fun city.


----------



## Y2J_Ado (Feb 11, 2013)

when I was younger, I was at WM 19. It was really great, especially the match between Y2J and HBK *-*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Y2J_Ado said:


> when I was younger, I was at WM 19. It was really great, especially the match between Y2J and HBK *-*


(Y)

I was there, too. Awesome match. HBK's first WM match since WM 14. And against the guy who became my favorite active wrestler when HBK was out in 1998-2002. It was literally a dream match come true, for me. Never thought it would happen. Especially when HBK was out injured and Jericho was still in WCW. One of the matches I'll never forget seeing live.


----------



## Y2J_Ado (Feb 11, 2013)

Me happy  yes it was really an exciting match especially are one of the best wrestlers the world has ever seen. Y2J had the right gimmick that had promos and everything else pretty good. It was one of the best matches repays that I have ever seen.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Tajiri vs. Billy Kidman - Velocity 5/25/02*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntWABBVn2MA

_This match isn't anything amazing and it won't make you go "OMG DAT WOZ AWSUM" but what it was, was damn entertaining. It is something I'd happily take on any wrestling show and it was very easy to sit through, watch, and get invested in. Tajiri acts as the heel, whilst Kidman is the face, and the whole match is centered around Kidman's arm, which Tajiri targets after Kidman takes an insanely nasty bump. Kidman sells well and convincingly, whilst Tajiri's offense was nice with some of the nicest kicks you'll see, as you'd expect from The Japanese Buzzsaw. The finish makes sense and ties in to a storyline that was going on at the time and both men come out of the match looking strong. Good story, decent selling from Kidman who also takes a couple of crazy bumps, nice offence from Tajiri and a logical finish. Very easy viewing and most definitely enjoyable. Well worth the 10 minutes it was given._


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

An I honestly the only person in this universe who would put Trips/BROCK over Trips/Taker @ wrasse mania XXVIII? I just thought BROCK stole the show so fucking much that it was hard to put it any less than 3rd on my 2012 MOTY list while Trips/Taker sits @ 5th. The crowd was obviously better for the wrestlemania encounter but I'll be damned if the natural intensity leeks weren't through the roof when it came to Trips-BROCK , and BROCK DA GON/GOD's GOAT selling. I was a huge fan of DAT finish too, made BROCK look like the killing machine that he rightfully is. BROCK.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> An I honestly the only person in this universe who would put Trips/BROCK over Trips/Taker @ wrasse mania XXVIII? I just thought BROCK stole the show so fucking much that it was hard to put it any less than 3rd on my 2012 MOTY list while Trips/Taker sits @ 5th. The crowd was obviously better for the wrestlemania encounter but I'll be damned if the natural intensity leeks weren't through the roof when it came to Trips-BROCK , and BROCK DA GON/GOD's GOAT selling. I was a huge fan of DAT finish too, made BROCK look like the killing machine that he rightfully is. BROCK.


I'd probably put Trips/Lesnar above Trips/Taker WM28. But probably just below Trips/Taker at WM27. All great matches though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My hope is to attend a WWE live event the next time I'm in America but that may not happen until another few years and by then, chances are the only person worth seeing will be Orton. I need to do something!

And I haven't seen Raw but read the spoilers. For some reason, I'm scared that now Punk takes the title on Sunday and we get the horrible triple threat. Will watch Y2J/Bryan soon, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock's control segments where he is just in the ring, alone, shouting 'this is my ring' was fucking ace, he also as usual looked mean as fuck, he's just in a league of his own, just imagine a full time Brock again ffs.

Is it just me, or has Lesnar 'toned down' abit on his arm muscle mass, I dunno he looked fucking boss at Summerslam, but he seemed slimmer when he came back to F5 Vince...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't appreciate it at the time, but I've seen Mark Henry live. 

......YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I plan on going to 30 next year, if it is in New Orleans then definitely, considering it is about a four hour drive from my house.

But on a different note, if I was to set up like a blog of sorts for my Top 1000 project, would anyone here be interested in reading it? And yes, the entire Top 1000 list would be posted there when it is complete

Also, any fun/good matches from the past few years on TV (2009-2012) maybe with some STARZ would be fantastic and much appreciated!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> An I honestly the only person in this universe who would put Trips/BROCK over Trips/Taker @ wrasse mania XXVIII? I just thought BROCK stole the show so fucking much that it was hard to put it any less than 3rd on my 2012 MOTY list while Trips/Taker sits @ 5th. The crowd was obviously better for the wrestlemania encounter but I'll be damned if the natural intensity leeks weren't through the roof when it came to Trips-BROCK , and BROCK DA GON/GOD's GOAT selling. I was a huge fan of DAT finish too, made BROCK look like the killing machine that he rightfully is. BROCK.


Taker/HHH>>>>>Lesnar/HHH, it ain't even close. Crowd, the action, storytelling, psychology, and hell, even selling (which thanks to Brock was one of the strong points of the Summerslam match) was better in the cell match imo. Pretty much every aspect of the cell match was better than the Summerslam to me and it's not even close, except in selling, like I said. 

Just thinking about the match just makes me even more sad that we're probably getting Lesnar/HHH... and I don't think the match is BAD. It's a good match, but just not as a "BIGOMGEPICMATCH"!

I would say Lesnar/HHH is more comparable to Taker/HHH WM27 and in which case I could understand the former being put over the latter to some degree, though the selling by Taker in WM27 destroys any other selling. I remember people legit thought he was dying after the match... then again, I remember being thinking Brock was legit hurt in the Summerslam match after the table spot. Lol, it was crazy. Two amazing selling jobs. Taker gave a second amazing performance at WM28, though of course it wasn't quite on the level of WM27.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I would take Trips/Taker over Trips/Lesnar big time. At least Taker would sell a supposed real life ailment.

EDIT- Although, I would like to point out, I wouldn't give Trips/Taker the full ***** like I did after I saw it live. Still a very good match, but I'd give it ****1/2. Trips/Lesnar is solid, anywhere from ***1/2 to ****.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - ECW 24/04/2009

HERE WE GO!

I honestly don't think I can write anything to truly do this match justice, or truly get across my adoration of this incredible contest. I loved it when it happened. I've watched it multiple times since... and it continues to only get BETTER in my eyes. This watch was no different. It is just an INCREDIBLE match.

Swagger is the young, confident champion with a great amateur background and a large frame allowing him to overpower most opponents. Christian is the wise veteran and perhaps the faster of the two, and their contrast in styles plays out BEAUTIFULLY here. Christian uses his speed to avoid certain situations, Swagger uses his power to bring himself back in control. We see some good old VETERAN INSTINCTS from the challenger sprinkled throughout the match as Christian will take advantage of ANY opportunity, no matter how small, and capitalise on it to the fullest extent.

Jack Swagger is known for working over the arm of his opponents, and never has he done it as well as he did here. It also helps that you have babyface Christian selling the arm to absolute perfection, and the great commentary from Matt Striker who really adds to the match with his explanation to things like Christian squeezing his fingers together to get the feeling back in his arm.

We see a couple of callback spots in the finishing stretch based on some things done earlier on, just another of the many things I love about this match. And of course it's Christian doing them, using those VETERAN INSTINCTS that I mentioned earlier to counter offence from Swagger that did damage to him earlier in the contest.

The arm work, the main focus of the match from Swagger, plays a huge part in the finish and that makes me giddy as fuck. Swagger retains the title, and I reach for a cigarette. Amazing how this just gets better and better every time. Few matches do that for me. HIAC does it. Flair/Windham BOTB II does it. And this does it. Also, its only around 13 minutes long. And yet it achieves more than most matches could dream of with 20+ minutes.

ECW MOTY, and I don't think anything is going to dethrone it. 2nd MOTY overall for WWE too. Also, the single greatest ECW match ever. New and old ECW.

Rating: ****1/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So i just re-watched a certain match and well, it's about that time I pimp this match out like how I have been for the past 5 months since it first took place. I'm talking about Eve vs Layla from NOC. I fucking love this this match! Fuck the crowd for not caring about this match! FUCK 'EM I TELL YOU, FUCK 'EM! Also what the hell was up with the random ass "Ole!" chants? 

This was Eve's best work in the WWE, up until her match with Kaitlyn of course.

So while I'm talking about Divas, I realize that not much discussion about Divas' matches take place. Yeah, yeah I know there's not much to talk about and the majority of the stuff is going to be about Trish and Lita but let's talk some Divas matches people! Anyone?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'd probably put Trips/Lesnar above Trips/Taker WM28. But probably just below Trips/Taker at WM27. All great matches though.


THIS .

Honestly, that's probably gonna change after I watch it but I have Trips-Taker @ Wrestlemania XXVII rated fucking HIGH.... The best Triple H singles match since 2000 I had it at last time that I checked... But my reviewing style has gotten alot better since almost TWO YEARS AGO when I saw it last, I'm afraid to get to it in a week or so and see that it's only four stars ... OR WORSE .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> THIS .
> 
> Honestly, that's probably gonna change after I watch it but I have Trips-Taker @ Wrestlemania XXVII rated fucking HIGH.... The best Triple H singles match since 2000 I had it at last time that I checked... But my reviewing style has gotten alot better since almost TWO YEARS AGO when I saw it last, I'm afraid to get to it in a week or so and see that it's only four stars ... OR WORSE .


** or you're a mark.

Edit: Also, just got to 300 on my list. So for fun, here's the numbers 100, 200, and 300 matches (for right now):

100) Rock vs. Angle NWO 2001
200) HBK vs. Austin WM14
300) Undertaker vs. Rock KOTR 1999

I'm almost certain I've missed plenty of matches I'd put above Taker that'll come to me as I'm doing the list later, and there are probably a few I missed above HBK/Austin. Rock/Angle may be safe in it's nice spot... until Wrestlemania at least.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's just face it ; Paul Levesque owns wrestling. Everything that you hold near and dear to your heart that is WWE related is in DA GAME's hands.

so ***** 3/4* :jpl.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'd probably put Trips/Lesnar above Trips/Taker WM28. But probably just below Trips/Taker at WM27. All great matches though.


Woof. Wasn't a huge fan of Trips/Taker WM 27. Still better than Trips/Lesnar, though. I'd go WM 28, WM 27, Trips/Lesnar. How do you not sell a REAL life ailment? :no:


----------



## Brogue_Kick (Sep 11, 2011)

There is still no building for the match people was talking the last year, Sin Cara vs Rey Mysterio at Wrestlemania

It is a great decision, due to the fact that Rey isn't on a great shape


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brogue_Kick said:


> *There is still no building for the match people was talking the last year, Sin Cara vs Rey Mysterio at Wrestlemania*
> 
> It is a great decision, due to the fact that Rey isn't on a great shape


Thank GOD.

I'm watching Mysterio vs Matt Hardy from Wrestlemania XIX right now to kick shit off and I know for a fact that the Rey we have today wouldn't be able to pull off a quarter of the shit he's pulling off in this one. Rey should just let MARK HENRY squash him like a bug into retirement and call it a legendary career as perhaps the most consistent worker ever.

I don't want that legacy tarnished by 2 or 3 more years of shit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Jericho vs Bryan. Better than last week's match with Punk and the only problem is that it was too short. They do have that chemistry. Would love it if one of them eliminate the other leading to a Mania feud. Seriously, to hell with Ziggler. He already got his moment with Jericho. Now it's time for Bryan and Jericho in a bigger stage.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alright folks, finished my portion of Kurt Angle for the 2000-2012 project of mine, here's the final list:



> KURT ANGLE
> 1. w/Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio, No Mercy 2002 (*****)
> 2. w/Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001 (*****)
> 3. vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out 2006 (****3/4)
> ...


Up next on my project, JAWN CHENA


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mark Henry Vs Santino Marella - Money in the Bank Qualifying Match - ECW 03/03/2009

Santino talks shit to Henry on the mic before the match. I think somebody gonna get their ass kicked.

Santino got his ass kicked. In about a minute lol. Fun for what it was. Henry squashing bitches is always awesome.

Rating: 1/4*

Christian, Finlay & Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger, The Miz & John Morrison - ECW 03/03/2009

Swagger and Dreamer to star things off. Swagger teases locking up a couple of times, then decides Dreamer is beneath him and tags out. To Miz. Someone on Dreamers level. Lol.

Finlay beating the shit out of Jiz :mark:. FINLAY USING THE RING APRON TO PERFECTION. Hornswoggle diving through the ropes onto the tag champs. They're even jobbing out to a midget. Awesome.

Dreamer ends up being FIP, and to his credit he bumps around nicely, especially when Swagger powers him around. Which is impressive because Dreamer is FAT. :lmao even Josh on commentary takes the piss. "Its hard to throw Dreamer up that high, but they did it".

Christian gets the hot tag and fuck, he's on a roll the moment he gets in the ring. Some real great action, and a nice blind tag finish too. Swagger once again pins Christian. Just another great main event for ECW.

Rating: ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I would imagine that Jericho knew his opponent before he signed his contract to go against whoever @ Mania. They wouldn't do all of this build for Jericho/Ziggler and just drop it out of nowhere. I'm thinking DOLPH cashes in and for the big matches with wrestlers from SMACKDOWN we get Jericho-Ziggler (WHC) , Del Rio-Swagger (OBV storyline here, either building for a post Mania feud or MANIA), Kane-Bryan, Henry-Ryback (fuck, I don't want this at all unless it's Henry squashing him but that obviously won't happen) and Sheamus-Orton. That's one HELL of an undercard if you ask me, and somewhere and somehow BIG SHOW factors into all of this.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd rather Ziggler somehow interferes and costs Jericho the match. The title match should involve other guys. I'm just worried about what Orton will do. I sure hope he wont be in a EC rematch replacing Cena for the tag team match. Whatever happens, he should win his match.

And wow, Ambrose is awesome on the mic. Haven't seen any of his work before but this promo he cut on Cena was great.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Wow, I will :lol if we get Jericho/Ziggler, Triple H/Lesnar, and Rock/Cena.

REMATCH-MANIA.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sometimes I get a little ridiculous with what I WANT the product to be, but when it comes to what I THINK is gonna happen I'm not THAT bad  . Right now I'd give the following percentages for winning the chamber ;

Henry : 35 %
Jericho : 30%
Swagger : 20 & 
Orton : 10%
Daniel Bryan : 4%
Kane : 1%

It doesn't take too much thought to realize that if Ziggler cashes in it'll be Jericho winning the chamber, and if Del Rio walks out the champion it'll be Henry or Swagger winning the chamber (dead serious). Orton has a REALLY outside shot but I highly, highly doubt it. The WWE just wouldn't shove him in pointless match after pointless match and then say "LOL WRESTLEMANIA WORLD TITLE MATCH". Bryan has barely any chance and Kane has slim to none.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JTG Vs Shad Vs Vladimir Kozlov Vs Christian Vs William Regal Vs The Great Khali Vs R-Truth Vs Goldust Vs Dolph Ziggler Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Paul Burchill Vs Charlie Hass Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Ricky Ortiz Vs Jimmy Wang Yang Vs Kung Funaki - Tri-Branded Money in the Bank Qualifying Battle Royal - ECW 10/03/2009

Some quick eliminations early, with jobbers like Ortiz and Funkai and Kozlov and Khali all going out within a minute. Leaving us with mostly good talent. Nice to see Goldust and Regal here, can't wait for both to become full fledged ECW members later in the year :mark:.

Fuck me, break between entrances, then a break about 3 minutes in. LOL. 

Regal is BOSS when we come back though, he initiates a tower of doom, with him basically taking out the other 4 guys in the ring, leaving him standing alone. If only he didn't fail the wellness policy the year before, who knows how big he could have been .

Regal eliminates Dreamer. Suck it fatty. R-Truth is eliminated by Chavo Jr. How much does he suck?

Regal continues to be BOSS. He hits that awesome half nelson suplex on Chavo Jr and sends him crashing into Christian. Then he gets eliminated . Fucking CHAVO JR in the final 2? THIS IS BULLSHIT. At least Christian wins .

This only gets about 6 minutes, but once we get down to 5 guys and Regal gets chance to rule the world, its a lot of fun.

Rating: **


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian & MVP Vs Mark Henry & Shelton Benjamin - ECW 17/03/2009

4 guys that will compete in the MITB Ladder Match at WM 25.

Sub 10 minute match here, but fun stuff. MVP gets dominated from the get go, and its mainly just MVP Vs Shelton, building up to their big match on the 500th SD for the US title later in the week.

Hot tag to Christian and the match gets awesome. Henry stays on the outside though, and gets taken out by a double team effort, but Tony Atlas causes a distraction and Pay Dirt to Christian for the win from Shelton. Solid match, but lacking in HENRY action.

Rating: **

Jamie Noble Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 17/03/2009

Bourne has been getting hype videos all year basically. This is his big return after injuring his ankle or something? He doesn't have much luck lol.

Noble is pretty much the perfect guy for Bourne to return against. Noble can bump like a champ, is completely unselfish in the ring, and when he needs to can create a nice control segment for himself to have Bourne gain sympathy.

Fun is the keyword once again here. Bourne showcase all the way, but against Noble its not just a random moves spotfest, so its good .

Rating: **

Paul Burchill Vs Finlay - ECW 17/03/2009

3 matches on one show I want to watch? I think this is a record lol! Nothing overly special so far, but all good stuff just had time constraints.

Huh, thought this was the main event (guess a segment could be left on the show though), and I expected it to get some decent time. Instead its under 5 minutes, but its FINLAY so its a good 5 minutes. Some nice nasty hard hitting offence from BOTH men. Burchill looks really good, and reminds me of Regal with some of his movements during this match. Finlay's comeback is great, and he picks up the win.

Dammit, Jiz & Moronson in their stupid segment show crap is the main event.

Rating: **1/2


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I just watched HHH/Lesnar for the first time since it happened, and I don't have a review ready for it, but my verdict

*****1/2*

:jpl DA GAME


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES.

STARZ!* 4 Wrestlemania XIX anybody ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WruzzleMunia 19

Matt Vs Rey - ***1/2 (incredible how much they achieve in like 5 minutes)
Undertaker Vs Show/Train - **3/4
Trish Vs Victoria Vs Jazz - **
Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros Vs Rhynoit - ****
HBK Vs Jericho - ****1/4
HHH Vs Booker - ****
Hogan Vs McMahon - *
Austin Vs Rock - ****1/2
Lesnar Vs Angle - ****1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

First PPV I "officially" reviewed in this thread.

Rey Mysterio vs Matt Hardy - ★★¾
Undertaker vs Big Show & A-Train - ★★½
Trish Stratus vs Victoria vs Jazz - ★★½
Team Angle vs Los Guerreros vs Rhyno & Chris Benoit - ★★★¼
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - ★★★★
Triple H vs Booker T - ★★★¼
Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon - ★★★¾
The Rock vs Stone Cold - ★★★★½
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - ★★★★


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Thinking about popping in Wrestlemania 21 on Sunday, I remember liking it but I am in REWATCH MODE for my Top 1000 list so yea, WRUSSLEMANYA!

MITB I :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> YES.
> 
> STARZ!* 4 Wrestlemania XIX anybody ?


Matt Hardy vs Rey Mysterio ~ ***1/4
Undertaker vs Big Show & A-Train ~ ***
Trish Stratus vs Victoria vs Jazz ~ **1/2
Team Angle vs Los Guerreros vs Chris Benoit & Rhyno ~ ***1/2
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho ~ ****1/2
Triple H vs Booker T ~ ***3/4
Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon ~ ***1/4
Steve Austin vs The Rock ~ ****3/4
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle ~ ****

Best WM ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

One thing I love about WM19 is how it truly has that "kick back and relax" feel to it when watching the event. I don't know if others understand me but it just has that atmosphere where you can pop the DVD in and watch it with somebody else just to enjoy the whole event. Feel good and "light". Other events usually come across a lot darker on screen or way too theater-ish like the HD stuff, but this event, it's unique from the way it's set up to the quality itself.

*Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio & Edge (2 out of 3 Falls) - Smackdown 7/11/2002*

Finally got around to watching this and even though it's not better than No Mercy, it's a pretty good rematch. Starts off with standard tag work and after a Powerbomb Senton, Mysterio gets the first fall on Benoit. Second fall is the shortest as Edge goes for a Spear but Angle moves out of the way and Edge's head is welcomed through the ropes with a belt shot from Benoit that knocks him out. Angle locks in the Ankle Lock for the submission second fall win. The third fall is where the match gets more enjoyable. Benoit and Angle tag in and out and start getting along well after all the tension, Mysterio and Edge both have their time of being the worn down babyface and it becomes typical tag match towards the end when everybody interferes and hits the illegal opponent to help their partner. Mysterio gets a roll-up pin on Angle but Angle holds the ropes which the referee misses during the pin. They cut to commercial and when they return, the match is restarted. Edge and Angle are the legal men towards the end while Benoit fights Mysterio. Edge spears Angle and pins him but then sees Benoit going for the Diving Headbutt and gets out of the way which results in Benoit hitting Angle with the move, further building up towards their differences and eventual feud. Edge pins Angle and the tag titles change hands. ★★★½

It's time for the Survivor Series elimination match tomorrow!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think I prefer the 2/3 falls match more than No Mercy. Need to relive both. Oooh. I have No Mercy on DVD actually. I should do this right now since I got 2013 reviewing downtime atm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NM - ****1/2
SD 2/3 Falls - ****

I was VERY happy when I re-watched the NM tag. Kinda expected to hate it, thinking it would be all meaningless spots and shit that annoy me these days, but they managed to work in all that WORKRATEMOVES stuff into a great STF match that blows me away every time I watch it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What a piece of shit was that Bryan/Jericho match. Talk about trying too hard. Looks like the Walls of Jericho just what ain't what it used to be. I know most people mark out to shit like "OMG D-Bryan countered the Walls! Awesome!! Submission specialist!!" But to me, it takes away from me trying to suspend disbelief. I mean, Daniel could have at least hold his back for a short while after or something, right?

As for the Benoit/Angle vs Edge/Mysterio series, I've yet to re-watch the 2/3 falls match but I did the NM the other day and it was pretty cool. Turned into a spotfest at the end but hey at least it was at the end. So it didn't bother me much. I have it at about ****1/2.

Gotta watch that 2/3 falls!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What did I just read.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ The GAME-Booker T feud recap "Somebody LIKE YOU doesn't get to be World Champion" and "You're a five time WCW champion but let's face it, that place was a JOKE" , then he proceeds to dress up like Ric Flair and say "there's only one diamond in this business, and you're looking at him" ... Trips had DAT STRANGLEHOLD on the WHC scene then holy shit. 

I swear to god if you ever read his book, if you read the wrestling based chapters than you can see he's to Flair what some of The Rock marks on here are to Rock ; they just don't like Rock, they want to cut Rock open and be INSIDE of him.... His love for Flair sometimes gets REALLY QUESTIONABLE.. It's hilarious.

Since Trips will have a stranglehold on WRESTLING as we know it come 5-10 years, you gotta believe that he's gonna go crazy and market Flair as the GOAT like everybody knows he should be. Then again, he'll probably market the shit out of Taker and HBK too.

If Flair, HBK, and Taker were remembered as the three greatest the WWE has ever seen, I'd be completely cool with that


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> What did I just read.


I'm sure you're referring to me. 

Hey, haters gonna hate right? 

I don't know, Jericho/Bryan from NXT now that was a damn match! What they had on RAW, just, just....meh!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Turning the Walls of Jericho into the YES/NO Lock was a great spot. Didn't ruin any credibility of the hold. Don't know if anyone jumped to that conclusion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching the hype video for Hogan/McMahon now, GOD DAMN what a job they did with this one, they've really hyped this up to be a fucking HUGE match. Anthology version uses REAL AMERICAN for Hogan's entrance, whereas the original Mania XIX DVD uses Voodoo child which I always felt suited him just fine believe it or not. It's nice to have both copies but of all matches why is THIS ONE ON THE COVER ?!??!

I forgot to mention about how EVOLUTION GAME IN 2003 was essentially if Ric Flair's character was crossed with RYBACK'S in ring work. Although the WWE REALLY didn't fucking help him when it came to giving him Steiner (2003 Steiner anyways), Nash, and Goldberg on literally 9 out of 10 PPVS. Has to be the worst string of opponents (besides Booker of course, he's okay) that anybody has had in a single year EVER. The STEINER matches (while hilarious) , GOLDBERG matches, and the Judgment Day NASH match are still inexcusable though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Turning the Walls of Jericho into the YES/NO Lock was a great spot. Didn't ruin any credibility of the hold. Don't know if anyone jumped to that conclusion.


Well I always used my dad as my personal test dummy as to what casuals think when they watch wrestling. The first thing he told me after the match was "What happened? Did the Walls of Jericho suddenly get soft?" And I knew that's exactly what he was going to say. Without knowing it, casual fans do in fact care about psychology. I'm not saying the spot didn't have psychology but to think that Jericho had him in the hold for quite some time and he Bryan didn't even like bother to hold his back for some time when both men were on their feet was just that little nit pick of mine.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I marked the hell out for the reversal spot but overall the match was just....meh. Didn't care for it. Would much rather watch their encounter from NXT. The RAW match just felt like they tried to cram 20 minutes worth of action if a what sub 10 minute match? The match just didn't feel natural.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c it's Hogan vs Vince at WrestleMania. It was huge. Plus, with the event being a legit supercard, any of the deserving matches would be left off.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Am i the only one who enjoyed the heck out of Hogan/Vince? The match seems to get hated on a lot. That and HBK/Vince from WM 22. 

Overall, WM 19 was one of the best damn Manias of all time. Some may even say it was the greatest but that will always be 24 for me 

And just a little thought I have to point out, does anyone else think that the Elimination Chamber theme song is one of the best damned theme songs WWE has ever used for a PPV? As a matter of fact I think it will be an even more kick-ass song for RAW or SD. Just my thoughts.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Vince is a ton of fun. I'm a fan. People who don't like Michaels vs Vince don't understand what fun is either apparently. Best squash match ever. _(maybe)_

This goes back to Vince's catalog of matches being so strong. They're not always "pretty". Never tried to be. They're wonderfully entertaining.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think the greatest squash of all time is Austin vs Bischoff. Best 4 minutes of my life!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another fun one.

I know some Rick Rude squash in early 90's WCW is up there. Same with Dick Murdoch killing jobbers. MARK HENRY goes without saying too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OMFG MICHAELS-VINCE HOLY SHIT. Didn't PWI give that MOTY ?

I ADORED that fucking match and thought it was the funnest thing ever, Vince knows how to take a beating and he knows how to tell a story in the ring. I wouldn't call Hogan-Vince a squash since Vince has a control segment in the beginning, batters Hogan with a steel chair, and puts Hogan through a table. THAT VINNE MAC LOOK WHEN HE RAISES HIS FACE ABOVE THE APRON BAH GAWD.

I'm loving this shit right now. Definitely the most fun I've had with a match in a while for sure... And I've seen this like 5 times already.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, Hogan vs Vince wasn't a squash. Only referring to Michaels vs Vince being one.

The Spirit Squad assault at 22 = never ending hilarity.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I'm watching some random ass matches and I just found, what I believe to be, a little gem of a match in Swagger vs Bourne from Capitol Punishment.

Next on my playlist, Ziggler vs Morrisson from Survivor Series 2011. Like Swagger/Bourne, I don't recall this match ever happening. Maybe all that Never Before, Never Again just overshadowed everything.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Never before, never again.... THANK FUCK.

THAT MATCH IS NOT GOOD .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> Never before, never again.... THANK FUCK.
> 
> THAT MATCH IS NOT GOOD .


I think the match just peaked with Rocky's monkey flip 

Oh well at least it will never happen again. If only Cena vs Rock were Once In A Lifetime.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The weird thing is that I don't even care about Rock/Cena II , I've just accepted it and tried to look for the positives in it. The thing I can't fucking STAND though is how ROCK is champion while CENA is the challenger. If ANYTHING, they could have just switched that shit around and had Rock win the title and have Punk drop it to Cena @ Survivor Series or some shit like that to blow off their feud.

I can't stand the fact that somebody who barely wrestles and cuts the shittiest promos imaginable whilst at the same time neglecting to mention the fact that he's champion or build up to his match at all in favor "entertaining" the live crowd is the WWE champion, FUCK. Who cares if we got Rock/Punk twice and that was an indication of how big Punk is, the match fucking BLEW and this next match is probably gonna BLOW too.

Cena may cut some of the most mind blowingly bad promos ever sometimes but atleast he's capable of WORKING A MATCH. I'm sure Cena will carry Rocky to a good match @ Mania just like last year (his style works WAY better than Punk's style against Rock TRUST ME) but FUCK.. Do we really have to suffer through 70 days of a guy who doesn't even wrestle and is the equivalent of if Jason Statham or Vin Diesel or somebody came and won the belt ?

UGH. MINI RANT OVER. THANK GOD FOR CENA NEEDING A WIN BACK SO I CAN SEE THE LOOK ON EVERYBODY IN METLIFE'S FACES WHEN IT HAPPENS.

:cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I'm totally dead towards this feud. Just have John-boy own the guy already and move on. I can't believe WWE thinks all their fans would actually care about this match and program. Last year, fine. I get that. This year? The second time around...why? I'll get a kick out of Cena finally pinning him, but the pay off isn't worth it. I'd rather have Rock say "I beat Cena in the only time we duked it out."


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Rock/Cena very well might be Rock's last match ever. When Rock loses, the crowd will boo for alittle bit (duh, as they should). But the crowd is going to realize that probably is the end of Rock's career and will turn their attention to him and give him a standing ovation for his career (certainly not the shit match, I'm sure we'll get). Cena will win the match, but it'll be a Rock moment as the crowd sends him off.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I won't boo. I'll mark knowing I won't have to stomach anymore shit from Rock.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I won't boo. I'll mark knowing I won't have to stomach anymore shit from Rock.


I know. I meant the people at the stadium. It'll only be a short period of time, though. Cena title win 1280934328 isn't all that important, especially in NY/NJ. As others have suggested, complete and utter silence would be awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The match isn't important this time around. Even with the championship on the line. It's fleeting. Useless really. We managed to miss out on two Cena vs Triple H matches in a row (thank sweet science) but now we can't escape two Cena vs Rock matches in a row.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> The match isn't important this time around. Even with the championship on the line. It's fleeting. Useless really. We managed to miss out on two Cena vs Triple H matches in a row (thank sweet science) but now we can't escape two Cena vs Rock matches in a row.


Completely agree. Basically any other opponent would be better than seeing the same main event at WM 2 years in a row. And then take into consideration the promos leading up to this years match. The Rock saying lame shit that makes no sense whatsoever and Cena laughing constantly with an awkward grin on his face. AGAIN.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Damn, a lot of Rock hate. What's weird is that this time around I don't mind the part timer. Last year I wanted Cena to kick his ass so badly where as most people jizzed over the ending to Mania. This year, however, I kind of don't mind him. I don't mind his WWE title run tbh. What I do mind is the freaking not showing up every other week! But overall, i think Rock/Punk feud is just something different.

Now, on to Rock/Cena. Here is a match that I looked forward to in 2011. But by 2012, all the interest was gone. The feud was booked like shit. Cena cut the same shit promos about him loving the WWE and not leaving, Rock talked about Team Bring It. I could care less. The outcome made me even more piss as I am, for the most part, a Cena mark.

The difference in 2013 is that I really, really, really can't stand Cena anymore. Part of the reason why I liked Cena in 2011 and 2012 was because he was out of the damn main event! Or should I say, he wasn't champion. Afterall, he did main event more PPVs than Punk in 2012. This year, however, the Cena hate is strong from me. Last time I felt this way about Cena it was 2009. I don't even know if I want Cena to win. I just don't want to see him as WWE champion. At the same time, I don't want Rock to be part timing past April as well.

Cena doesn't need the title and should just go back to be a brand. Cena is the selling point. Him as champion isn't going to put much more asses in seats. Get the strap back on Punk and start building the new generation (AGAIN). See in about 2010, 2011, WWE started to build a new generation of stars. But with the return of Rock, End of An Era and Lesnar they kind of lost sight of things.

I know I am in the minority when I say this but you would be a fool to think that Ryback isn't one of the best damn things the company has going for them atm. It was clearly evident this past week on RAW when, in the crowd you have Cena and Sheamus yet it was Ryback who was getting the pop. Ryback is over and why they having bouncing all over the place is beyond me. I;m not saying put the WWE title on him but let's start building to it, shall we? 

So yeah, WWE has gone off track and they've lost sight of their goal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Completely agree. Basically any other opponent would be better than seeing the same main event at WM 2 years in a row. And then take into consideration the promos leading up to this years match. The Rock saying lame shit that makes no sense whatsoever and Cena laughing constantly with an awkward grin on his face. AGAIN.


It's so meh at best. Which is so bad since it's going to be THE match for the biggest show of the year. I hate being so out of it like this. I'll look forward to the rest, but it doesn't hurt being excited for most aspects. At least the main event. Like last year, I was beyond excited for all 4 main events. Yeah, even Cena vs Rock b/c of the year build and anticipation and all that jazz. The lower card had a divas match that I didn't give a damn about. That was it. And the end result was a good WrestleMania. If it wasn't for Danielson vs Sheamus being 18 seconds I would have loved the event more. Leave it to WWE to kill my dreams on the match I wanted to see the most at a WrestleMania.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It's so meh at best. Which is so bad since it's going to be THE match for the biggest show of the year. I hate being so out of it like this. I'll look forward to the rest, but it doesn't hurt being excited for most aspects. At least the main event. Like last year, I was beyond excited for all 4 main events. Yeah, even Cena vs Rock b/c of the year build and anticipation and all that jazz. The lower card had a divas match that I didn't give a damn about. That was it. And the end result was a good WrestleMania. If it wasn't for Danielson vs Sheamus being 18 seconds I would have loved the event more. Leave it to WWE to kill my dreams on the match I wanted to see the most at a WrestleMania.


Haha, so true. When the Sheamus/Bryan fiasco happend, I looked at my friend and said "Did that really just happen?" Not because I was pissed Bryan lost. I was perfectly fine with him losing and it was quite obvious he was going to drop the belt going into the match. I was pissed because I was expecting a good - very good match. Considering we pay the amount we pay for WM these days, I thought we deserved at least an attempt at a match for both world titles. Leave it Vince to rape everyone's dreams like that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let me reiterate this statement and I mean it to the bottom of my heart ; I would rather watch The Rock vs John Cena III @ Wrestlemania XXX (Which IS a possibility believe it or not. Rock wins, drops it to Punk or Brock via shenanigans @ Extreme Rules... Cena looks on after the lost with the smirk off of his face, causing him to snap @ XXX and go heel, ending an era @ the anniversary event , or going over ROCK in his last match) than have Ryback either win the WWE championship, or have Ryback main eventing Wrestlemania. At least Rock does SOMETHING (draw), Ryback doesn't do shit.. HE HAS WORSE CARDIO THAN ROCK FFS, THAT SHOULDN'T EVEN BE POSSIBLE !

After EC and Rock-Cena is officially confirmed I'll probably watch their first segment together and if it's the same old bullshit then I'll be tuning out whenever a Rock-Cena segment comes on and tuning back in when it's over, trust me. Then when Cena goes over @ Mania I'm probably going to be banned from here for a year due to the shit I'm going to say. I'll be counting down until the day after Mania when everybody's (ALMOST everybody wink wink) clamoring for Punk to get his title back once Cena's reign begins.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I won't be able to stomach a third match just to wait one more year for Cena to turn heel. I had a discussion with someone who had a GREAT theory on Cena going heel at the end of 29. I'm firmly hoping for his plan to come through. Would shake the WWE to its core.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> What a piece of shit was that Bryan/Jericho match. Talk about trying too hard. Looks like the Walls of Jericho just what ain't what it used to be. I know most people mark out to shit like "OMG D-Bryan countered the Walls! Awesome!! Submission specialist!!" But to me, it takes away from me trying to suspend disbelief. I mean, Daniel could have at least hold his back for a short while after or something, right?


Huh? You saying "looks like the Walls of Jericho just ain't what it used to be" basically counters your argument because that's exactly how it is. When's the last time Jericho tapped someone with it? The Codebreaker seems to be his main finisher to me. He goes for/locks on the Walls multiples times in most of his matches and people counter it all the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last time was vs Dolph back at Summerslam. He normally does win by Codebreaker ever since he debuted it back in 2007.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I'm watching some random ass matches and I just found, what I believe to be, a little gem of a match in Swagger vs Bourne from Capitol Punishment.
> 
> Next on my playlist, Ziggler vs Morrisson from Survivor Series 2011. Like Swagger/Bourne, I don't recall this match ever happening. Maybe all that Never Before, Never Again just overshadowed everything.


The match was good put be ready for lots of "We Want Ryder!" chants.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I won't be able to stomach a third match just to wait one more year for Cena to turn heel. I had a discussion with someone who had a GREAT theory on Cena going heel at the end of 29. I'm firmly hoping for his plan to come through. Would shake the WWE to its core.


Explain said theory plz. I want to hear a Cena heel turn storyline from somebody who isn't a complete retard on these forums .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WHEN Cena wins the WWE Title what feuds would you like to see or wouldn't mind seeing him in? I think he is for sure going to feud with Punk again and I want it to happen at the Chicago PPV so I can see it live! Cena/Henry and Cena/Bryan have the potential to be quality programs and matches on PPV this year too. I'm thinking they will do Cena/Ryback too and if Cena could replicate a fraction of what he did with Bobby Lashley in 2007 it will be a worthwhile watch. Cena/Cesaro is also something I'm interested in a serious program. Preferably with Cesaro winning MITB and challenging Cena. Hell, let Cena & Brock go at it again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You nearly exhausted all of my favorable options: Cena vs Henry, Cena vs Cesaro, Cena vs Danielson, & Cena vs Ryback.

To add one more: I need a Cena vs Sheamus match again. Sheamus is even better than he as back in 2010 so I'm certain they'd kill it nowadays.

KOK I'll get you that Cena heel turn theory. Need to go find out where it was again first...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Clique said:


> WHEN Cena wins the WWE Title what feuds would you like to see or wouldn't mind seeing him in? I think he is for sure going to feud with Punk again and I want it to happen at the Chicago PPV so I can see it live! Cena/Henry and Cena/Bryan have the potential to be quality programs and matches on PPV this year too. I'm thinking they will do Cena/Ryback too and if Cena could replicate a fraction of what he did with Bobby Lashley in 2007 it will be a worthwhile watch. Cena/Cesaro is also something I'm interested in a serious program. Preferably with Cesaro winning MITB and challenging Cena. Hell, let Cena & Brock go at it again.


Well... you named em all  I just really wanna see Cena/Punk in a TLC or Hell in a Cell before the year's up.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

They can always do Cena vs. Big Show again! :show

Cena/Sheamus does sound nice too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Self-Destruction of The Ultimate Warrior
**
The Documentary

*I must say, this was a pretty damn entertaining doc, albeit a little one sided. I assume most of you have seen it by now, but if not, let me say that at some point during the feature every single person interviewed says something negative about the Warrior. Heenan flat out hates the guy and it's hilarious to hear all his comments. There's just a couple guys (Brawler & Hogan) that say more positive than negative but it's pretty clear the guy was disliked in the locker room. From a wrestling standpoint, they actually covered all the ground from his entire career. Every one of his major feuds were talked about; Shango, Rude, Savage, Hogan, Hercules, etc. I actually learned some things along the way, never knew he had a program with Andre. When they started showing clips from interviews I just couldn't stop laughing. He rambled about so much random shit that made no sense. I guess to sum this up I'll just go ahead and give it a thumbs up on pretty much all levels cause it had me engaged for the whole 90 minutes and laughing for most of it. Fun stuff for sure & you take away the idea that Warrior wasn't sane in any way. 

*The Matches

*The Ultimate Warrior vs. Terry Gibbs - SQUASH
_WWF Wrestling Challenge 10/24/87_

*Intercontinental Championship
*Honky Tonk Man (c) vs. The Ultimate Warrior - SQUASH
_Summerslam '88_

*Title vs. Title
*Hulk Hogan (WWF Champion) vs. The Ultimate Warrior (Intercontinental Champion) - **** 1/2
_Wrestlemania VI

_*WWF Championship - Steel Cage Match
*The Ultimate warrior (c) vs. Rick Rude - ***
_Summerslam '90_

*Retirement Match
*The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage - **** 1/4
_Wrestlemania VII_

- For some reason, after showing the entire Summerslam '88 match in the documentary, they decided to put the match as an extra too. 

- Holy mother of god I'd forgotten how AMAZING Hogan vs. Warrior was. Obviously the atmosphere is rockin but those guys totally worked their asses off when you know they didn't have to. Love the tests of strength in the beginning, love Hogan's control segment and Warrior's comeback, love Warrior's control and Hogan's Hulking up, and I especially love how well it was portrayed that as the match went on Warrior got more and more energized and Hogan had to try to win with desperation type moves and rollups. The last few minutes are extremely well done with the ref bump and nearfalls and the finish is still a huge surprise even to this day. One of my all time Mania favorites for sure.

- That Cage match is actually a lot of fun, but man did they rush through it. It's only about 10 minutes but they fit a whole bunch of shit into 10 minutes. Did a good job of showing the brutality of a Cage match by having both guys blade and I liked Heenan's involvement, but man if they would've slowed down and added like 3 or 4 more minutes with the exact same match it could've been something a lot better.

- Man, Savage/Warrior is a blast from bell to bell. Crowd is white hot all the way through & Heenan's commentary makes it even better. Savage & Sherri put on the performance of their lives with everything on the line, such a great showing. What they actually did in the ring probably doesn't warrant the rating I gave it, but the crowd, stipulation, & great performances (even that weird thing from Warrior where he looks to the heavens for advice and/or power) puts it over the top.

*Overall: 8/10*​


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Punk/Cena is a lock for Extreme Rules IMO. Finally a gimmick match between the two.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> They can always do Cena vs. Big Show again! :show
> 
> Cena/Sheamus does sound nice too.


I almost plugged that match too. 

I wouldn't object if it had an engaging program behind it. Their matches really aren't bad at all. In fact I can't think of many "bad" ones in their series. Judgment Day 2009 is criminally underrated & the early 2009 bout from Smackdown is excellent.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Submission Match they had at Extreme Rules 09 was abysmal to watch. I think they went 15 minutes too. I got to see the Judgment Day 09 match live and that was decent wouldn't call it any more. The Smackdown match in Feb 09 is by far the best Cena/Show match so I agree with you there. The rest I don't care for because I've seen them wrestle so often and just tired of the combination.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked the Submission match for what it was too. It was 19 minutes, btw. That's why so many crap on it. It's an above average bout, yet I enjoy the strategy behind it. 

Judgment Day rocks. It's beauty is in its simplicity. Show is such a king and Cena's selling was on point. Had an old school feel to it. That's the appeal for me.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

*WrestleMania X8 ~ 3/17/02*

Intercontinental Championship
William Regal (c) vs. Rob Van Dam ~ **1/4
-Solid match. Nothing technically wrong with it. Brutal cutthroat neckbreaker. Dug Regal's offense with the tiger driver. Pretty beast half nelson suplex. Alright finish. Nothing fantastic.-

European Championship
Diamond Dallas Page (c) vs. Christian ~ **1/2
-A few good reversals down the stretch. Good false finish with DDP kicking out of the inverted DDT and the small package. A few awkward moments at times though.-

Hardcore Championship
Goldust vs. Maven (c) ~ *
-Maven took an awesome bump into the security wall to start the match. Very sloppy moments early on from Maven. Ending with neither competitor getting the win but technically makes sense. Meh. Really short.-

Kurt Angle vs. Kane ~ ***1/4
-Angle looks like a machine suplexing Kane. Good control angle that made sense because of the prematch attack. The chokeslam by the ropes looked a little obvious with the grabbing the ropes near fall. Kane hitting an enzuigiri was awesome. Good moves down the stretch with a terrible ending. Otherwise good match. MOTN so far.-

No DQ Match
Undertaker vs. Ric Flair ~ *1/2
-LOL at Flair botching his signature spot. This match drags on like crazy. Flair blades. Shocker. The brawling was pretty bad. Ric's comeback was alright. Arn Anderson spot was awesome and for some reason it made me think Flair would win. This match lasted forever.-

Edge vs. Booker T ~ ***
-Some good spots early on like Booker T's Alabama slam type move. Terrible top rope huricanrana. No real face/heel dynamic here. More back and forth. Booker T had a really good roll up in the corner. Not much drama after the scissors kick since he took so long to cover. Good counters in the finish. Way too short, but didn't overstay its welcome like the previous. What the show needed, refreshing match.- 

Special Enforcer - Kevin Nash
Scott Hall vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ~ **1/4
-Starts off hot with brawl mentality. Transitioned into Hall beating up Stone Cold. Cold gets a decent spinebuster before a stunner out of nowhere a minute or so later. NWO goes for a double team after the ref is pulled out. Double stunners. Delayed referee runs to the ring only to have Nash elbow drop him. Nash is being sent to the back, no referee and Hall gets a stunner on Austin. 2.9999 with a delayed referee. Austin counters a stunner and hits one of his own for the match. Simple and forulamatic with a little drama in the end.-

Four Team Elimination Match For the Tag Team Championships
Billy and Chuck (c) vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. The APA ~ *1/2
-Nothing special here really except for Stacy's butt. Seriously thats it. APA is out early and it becomes Hardyz/Dudleyz. A meh table spot sets up the Dudleyz elimination and Billy and Chuck come in for a little back and forth. Some nearfalls before Billy and Chuck retain under nefarious means. The definition of average.-

Icon vs. Icon
Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock ~ ***1/2
-The crowd is electric. Jesus that pop for Hogan throwing Rock down. This crowd is great, I thought it was just for Hogan but Rock catches a shoulder block for a huge. This is just a back and forth battle. Hogan is starting to heel it up, but the crowd is still into him. The Rock starts to make a comeback but is thrown to the floor. A little bit of fighting on the floor before another attempted Rock comeback leading to a referee bump. Hogan eats a spinebuster and both are down. The sharpshooter was a little lame to me, since I can't see the match legitimately ending with that move. Hogan gets the low blow and a rock bottom! That was a memorable near fall. The belt spot was a little unnecessary. Rock Bottom! Hulk Up! Big Boot! Drop the leg! I thought it was over, good nearfall. Another boot and he dodges the leg drop. Rock Bottom! He needs to follow up. A third. People's elbow time! And The Rock wins it! I really dug that a lot more than I remember. Great finishing stretch. The crowd was great and the match built to a big conclusion. No technical classic, but a really good match. I liked how The Rock was frustrated and made sure he put Hogan down with the second and third Rock Bottom (although I didn't like the kip up)-

I'm stopping here. The main event was really dull from my memory and I'm tired. I think I'll consider that spectacle the main event of the show for this viewing.​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To be fair, Hogan/Rock WAS the WM 18 Main Event 

WrassleMania XXIII (23):
MITB - ****1/2
Kane/Khali - DUD
Benoit/MVP - ***1/4
Batista/Taker: ****1/2
ECW Tag Match: **1/4
Lashley/Umaga: ***
Melina/Ashley: DUD
Cena/HBK: ****1/2

Overall really good WrassleMania, with three ****1/2 matches and some other decent stuff along the way. Kane/Khali and Melina/Ashley are awful, though.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

While i was mad that i didn't get the Sheamus/Bryan match, i was more angry because i then had to sit through Orton/Kane, Show/Rhodes & the Divas match. That was really half a ppv.

Team Bring it/Cenation, Rock's promos consisting of him trying to get something trending, Cena grinning like a moron. I went from being hyped for the match the night after WM 27 to thanking god the RAW before their match had come because the build made become so bad.
My interest in a rematch would purely be for the quality of the match, as i don't care if Cena wins or doesn't win the title.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Bryan/Sheamus left a really bad taste in the mouth for me. Completely killed the crowd for a while and the show until the Hell in a Cell.


Okay so they announced the pre show is Tensai/Clay vs RHODES SCHOLARS. Does anyone in this company know what they are doing?


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Hopefully they've realised that splitting up the best heel team was stupid. Especially when they've got no direction for either man or any viable replacement for the division.

It also makes me wonder if they've been booking RS/NAO at house shows for a reason. Mania match?

More likely, they were thrown together for a filler match to put over Tensai/Clay.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Duke Droese said:


> Hopefully they've realised that splitting up the best heel team was stupid. Especially when they've got no direction for either man or any viable replacement for the division.
> 
> It also makes me wonder if they've been booking RS/NAO at house shows for a reason. Mania match?
> 
> More likely, they were thrown together for a filler match to put over Tensai/Clay.


NAO/Team HN/RS at WM would be cool. Puts the belts on the RS without doing another match with them vs Team HN.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Woo Kane DVD just arrived. Kane DVD's owned = 1. Rock DVD's owned = 0. SUCK IT DWAYNE!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Woo Kane DVD just arrived. Kane DVD's owned = 1. Rock DVD's owned = 0. SUCK IT DWAYNE!


KANE

I was tempted to pop it back in before I saw this. Think this was the push I needed. Plus, I still need to watch Kane vs Finlay. :mark:



BANKSY said:


> Okay so they announced the pre show is Tensai/Clay vs RHODES SCHOLARS. Does anyone in this company know what they are doing?


:lmao

Match is cool, but WHAT THE HELL?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I might watch Undertaker/Kane 08 again. Just cos. Wish they didn't fucking remove the damn match listing insert thingys from the DVD's. Gotta look online to see what fucking matches are on what disc (at least I know the Undertaker match will be on disc 3).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Some morning thoughts for me before I have to go out and do something with my life :

- GREAT theory Cody, it makes me feel pretty optimistic about a logical and natural heel turn for Cena but if it doesn't happen I'll just embrace the fact that Cena's going over clean and ROCK will be going away for another year and maybe forever hopefully.

- I wouldn't compare Cena-Ryback to Cena-Lashley (which was good) simply because Lashley, like Lesnar is a special kind of athlete that is unbelievably strong but has the speed and the endurance to match it in the ring due to being a former amateur wrestler for the army and doing their training and all that jazz. Ryback hasn't shown any capability whatsoever to work at a pace any faster than TWO-MPH and I feel it's really going to hinder his in ring work in the future like it does now. A face-face Ryback-Cena program wouldn't be good because there would need to be a control segment and a comeback, and I'm not confident enough in Ryback to trust him with a well paced main event match against anybody at this point. Guys like Lesnar, Lashley, and HELL even Goldberg had an explosiveness to their work due to being highly conditioned athletes... I think Ryback's CEILING is Batista, and if he gets the that level he'd be pretty damn good in his role but I'm not counting on it at this point.

- Please no more Show/Cena. Their 2009 series SUCKS and the pacing just throws me off everytime, never wanna see that shit again. Haven't watched the No Way Out cage match but I doubt it would get rated any higher if I re watched it. They just have this odd chemistry whereas Sheamus and Big Show hit each other in the face really hard, Cena-Show is usually comprised of one big long Show control segment that just doesn't do anything for me, BLAH on that feud for sure.

- Feuds I COULD see Cena doing over the title this year ? The obvious Cena-Punk of course, Cena-Lesnar (I think Lesnar's the one who takes the title away from Cena TBH), Cena-Henry, Cena-Swagger (dead serious), Cena-Bryan (even Cena-Bryan-Kane), Cena-Christian could be great if they could give Christian a good heel run, Cena-Sheamus, etc etc. There's a ton of fresh new feuds right there that could make a Cena run with the belt actually AWESOME, although I think Punk enters a big post Mania storyline which eventually leads to Punk-Brock.

- Matches nobody ever needs to see again involving Cena ; Cena vs Orton , Cena vs Barrett , Cena vs Big Show .......... Yeah that's basically it but if I have to sit through any of those matches or feuds than I'll probably stop watching Cena's segments until something new and fresh occurs. I have no problem with "CENAWINSLOL" as long as we get a good program that hasn't been beaten to fucking death.

- Still need to watch Rock-Austin and Lesnar-Angle (one of my favorite trilogies ever) from WM XIX before I ultimately move on to Wrestlemania XX tonight. I have a exam later that I don't know fuck all about so after that's done I'm probably gonna come back, watch Rock-Austin and Lesnar/Angle, MARK THE FUCK OUT, and then watch all of Wrestlemania XX in one sitting while eating an entire pizza or some shit. Even though XX is like the longest WWE show in history or some shit and has way too much filler, I remember the GOAT triple threat (hold up plz) , Angle-Eddie, and Jericho-Christian all being awesome while DA UNDATAKAH has an epic return that I love, Rock loses to GOAT FLAIR in a tag, and YEAH.

- When it comes to Triple H's Mania status I'm pretty much 40 percent sure he's not competing ; actually I'm going to do up the percentages now :

Not Competing : 40 %
vs BROCK II : 40&
W/X Pac (amazing shape) & NAO vs BROCK/SHIELD for control of da company : 10% (dead serious)
Special referee of some sort : 9%
Some outside of the box thing that will for sure happen and I have to put this here so I don't look wrong : 1%

- On the brightest note imaginable to end this off ; only 53 more days until the "reign of terror" as (*Choke2Death* puts it, then we can get back to our champion actually wrestling on RAW, no more shitty "cookie puss" promos or stories about crackheads, and we get to see the looks on all the Rocky marks faces when he puts over CENA DA GAWD @ Wrestlemania and then goes away for another year more than likely.

IT WILL BE GLORIOUS :cena2 .

EDIT ; Kane vs Finlay @ Summerslam RULES, but the Kane DVD (if it's the same as the one I have) has some of the absolute WORST packaging for any DVD ever, not just WWE DVDs. Even on his DVD Kane gets the shaft.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it's the final match on the set. My reaction was lol worthy when I read it made it.

Same problem happened to me when I bought the Edge: Decade of Decadence set. Had to pop in each DVD just to know what I was getting ready to view. Frustrating.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You didn't know what you were getting with an *EDGE* set ?

I figured you'd know it's something like this ; shitty non-gimmick singles match, shitty non-gimmick singles match, tag team ladder match, tag team ladder match, shitty non-gimmick singles match x3, shitty Hogan tag, vs EDDIE, vs Orton, good gimmick match, shitty non-gimmick singles match, rinse and repeat.

Edge was a truly MEDIOCRE non gimmick match singles worker for sure, with only a handful of those matches (vs Taker @ Mania XXIV, vs Orton, etc) that I'd actually consider to be good. He was a great gimmick match worker for sure, but DAMN was he mediocre when there wasn't any weapons lying around.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> You didn't know what you were getting with an *EDGE* set ?
> 
> I figured you'd know it's something like this ; shitty non-gimmick singles match, shitty non-gimmick singles match, tag team ladder match, tag team ladder match, shitty non-gimmick singles match x3, shitty Hogan tag, vs EDDIE, vs Orton, good gimmick match, shitty non-gimmick singles match, rinse and repeat.
> 
> Edge was a truly MEDIOCRE non gimmick match singles worker for sure, with only a handful of those matches (vs Taker @ Mania XXIV, vs Orton, etc) that I'd actually consider to be good. He was a great gimmick match worker for sure, but DAMN was he mediocre when there wasn't any weapons lying around.


^ Sounds like a Cena set.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I feel the same way about Triple H. Although, I could name more non-gimmick Edge matches that I like than from Trips now that I think about it. Mostly from his 2002 days. But, some of the good ones are gimmicks. _(Steel Cage vs Angle & No DQ vs Eddie)_

Matches vs Orton rock. Looking back, do think the only one that does suck was Over The Limit 2010. Why that one was a steaming pile of crap remains a mystery.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which was the Orton/Edge match where Orton hurt his shoulder. Again. ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> ^ Sounds like a Cena set.


Most great Cena matches that come to mind weren't gimmicks. Only Last Man Standing vs Umaga iirc.



Big Z said:


> Which was the Orton/Edge match where Orton hurt his shoulder. Again. ?


Over The Limit 2010.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Matches vs Orton rock. Looking back, do think the only one that does suck was Over The Limit 2010. Why that one was a steaming pile of crap remains a mystery.





Big Z said:


> Which was the Orton/Edge match where Orton hurt his shoulder. Again. ?





HayleySabin said:


> Over The Limit 2010.


I think your question has been answered?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Most great Cena matches that come to mind weren't gimmicks. Only Last Man Standing vs Umaga iirc.




It's kind of an oxymoron to begin with.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH > Edge. Can't think of many non-gimmick Edge matches I like outside of the Angle and Taker series and I'm not even sure how well those would hold up if I watched them again.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH > Edge. Can't think of many non-gimmick Edge matches I like outside of the Angle and Taker series and I'm not even sure how well those would hold up if I watched them again.


Yeah, I have the Edge/Taker WM match in the **** - ****1/4 range.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> I think your question has been answered?


Not at all. Orton doesn't hurt his shoulder until the final minute of the match. First 11 minutes being the worst shit ever has no excuse.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Not at all. Orton doesn't hurt his shoulder until the final minute of the match. First 11 minutes being the worst shit ever has no excuse.


Well Edge kinda blew chunks for the most part once he returned in 2010, and Orton was on his downward spiral of doing shit with most people. So there ya go .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Has to be the only conclusion. Although, if I watch their singles match from July of 2010 and it wasn't bad then OTL still won't have a clear cut answer. :hmm:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Has to be the only conclusion. Although, if I watch their singles match from July of 2010 and it wasn't bad then OTL still won't have a clear cut answer. :hmm:


I have the answer. THE POWER OF DEM WRIST TAPES WAS MISSING!

It's a matter of time before somebody wonders what the matter is with me and Orton's wrist tapes.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - career threatening match - WrestleMania 24 - ****3/4*

About to now watch Cena vs Triple H vs Randy Orton which I haven't seen before.

Edit: ****1/2* for the Cena/HHH/Orton match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A buddy of mine told me his top 25 matches of WrestleMania last night. I wanted to stop being his friend after I heard Jericho vs Benoit vs Angle made it. That wasn't even the worst part.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Elaborate on what his top 25 was PLZ. One of my best friends is a huge Bret mark and have me his top 10 mania matches ever, stuff like Bret-Austin, Bret-Owen, Rock-Austin were all on there along with Savage-Steamboat and a few others. He thinks the HBK-Taker matches are overrated, and believes both GAME-taker matches and GAME-BROCK to be complete and utter garbage. He fucking LOVES Hogan-Rock and Hogan-Warrior and thinks that Rock-Austin from Mania XIX is lacklustre compared to 17. He had a REALLY fucking ridiculous match at five stars the last time I checked, when I remember I'll fill you in, crazy bastard.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Elaborate on what his top 25 was PLZ. One of my best friends is a huge Bret mark and have me his top 10 mania matches ever, stuff like Bret-Austin, Bret-Owen, Rock-Austin were all on there along with Savage-Steamboat and a few others. He thinks the HBK-Taker matches are overrated, and believes both GAME-taker matches and GAME-BROCK to be complete and utter garbage. He fucking *LOVES* Hogan-Rock and *Hogan-Warrior* and thinks that *Rock-Austin from Mania XIX is lacklustre compared to 17.* He had a REALLY fucking ridiculous match at five stars the last time I checked, when I remember I'll fill you in, crazy bastard.


Highlighted what I agree with. I'll never understand why people go crazy about that Rock/Austin match. I mean, it's fun but it's just the two of them exchanging finishers for like 10 minutes straight. Last watch I had it at *** 1/2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll always have Rock/Austin WM17 above their match at WM19. Not that their final match was bad, but it just can't compete with WM17.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He didn't add Austin vs Rock from WM 19 either but Austin vs Rock from 17 is his number one :lmao

25) Vince vs Shane
24) Hogan vs Warrior
23) Jericho vs Benoit vs Angle
22) Flair vs Savage
21) Money in the Bank I
20) Savage vs Warrior
19) Brock vs Angle
18) Undertaker vs Orton
17) Undertaker vs Triple H (27)
16) Mick Foley vs Edge
15) HBK vs Flair
14) Undertaker vs Triple H (28)
13) Bret vs Owen
12) HBK vs Jericho
11) Undertaker vs HBK (26)
10) Rock vs Hogan
9) Austin vs Bret
8) HOGAN VS ANDRE :lmao
7) HBK vs Razor
6) Undertaker vs HBK (25)
5) Savage vs Steamboat
4) Edge & Christian vs Hardys vs Dudleys - TLC II
3) Benoit vs Triple H vs HBK
2) HBK VS ANGLE :lmao :lmao :lmao
1) Austin vs Rock (17)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 19 match for me blows away their WM 17 match. Just adore the story of the match, and holy fuck, its a MAJOR Rock performance driven match too. His GOAT performance ever imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania 17 isn't even THAT great. It's another extended Attitude Era brawl. Not bad, of course. But far far from "legendary". Austin's win & alliance with Vince is what sticks out more than the match does. ***1/2

19 blows it away and then some.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I have yet to really see Austin/Rock WM 17 but I absolutely adored their encounter at WM XIX. Had it at **** iirc. Such an emotional match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And speaking of WM 19, the "movie" they did (WM XX DVD Feature) is incredible. One of my favourite special features ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> He didn't add Austin vs Rock from WM 19 either but Austin vs Rock from 17 is his number one :lmao
> 
> 25) Vince vs Shane
> 24) Hogan vs Warrior
> ...


Don't see what's wrong with the list. Sure, the order of some matches is wrong but for the most part, on-point list aside from omitting Rock/Austin III. Hogan/Andre may be shit, but it's historically significant enough that I'd let it slide if someone mentioned it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How does something like Jericho vs Benoit vs Angle trump matches like Punk vs Jericho, multiple MITBs, Punk vs Mysterio, Sheamus vs Triple H, Mysterio vs Rhodes, and etc. Those are all from the most recent WM's too. Not even taking into consideration more from the earlier editions. iirc Rockers vs Faces of Fear from WM 7 might be the best non-gimmick opener only behind the highly regarded Bret vs Owen match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Is he PERMA-FRIED ? Bret Hart vs Steve Austin @ Number NINE ? Bret vs Owen @ Number THIRTEEN? No Bret-Piper whatsoever ? WHAT THE FUCK ? Does he HATE the Hitman or something ? Is your friend Triple H ?

Oh my god, he's a Wrestlemania X-7 mark, meaning that he believes that nothing has or will top the greatness that is Wrestlemania X-7 because it holds a place in his heart and if anything comes close or surpasses it like some shows have, than it must be bashed and called overrated. Seriously, I read probably 15-20 reviews of Wrestlemania XIX and all of them said the same thing ; "overrated, not as good as WM X-7", or "This show is the most stacked card ever, but the atmosphere of X-7 is better therefore XIX sucks".

HOGAN vs ANDRE ?!?!??!! HEAD EXPLODES.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Undertaker/Kane . :lmao poor Kane, even on HIS OWN DVD, we cut to Kane already in the ring, then have to sit through Undertaker's full entrance (not that I'm complaining, its the GOAT entrance and incredible to see live) .

God bless whoever decided to put this match on DVD btw. So fucking glad it made it. Easily their second best match ever (ok, not saying much since they had some stinkers lol), and one of my all time favourites. Story of the match so far is holding up here, probably better than ever. Just awesome stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, he's a die-hard 17 mark. Which, I am too actually. But all of the comparisons to 19 that you pointed out is rather humorous. It's like a TNA mark trying to always having to one up things done by WWE when it wasn't even brought up in the first place.

Austin vs Bret not being the top 5 was the final straw. I told him that too. After I ranted on how crummy Michaels vs Angle is. But I knew he's got such a "WWE circulated" mind on that match. He's not all bad though. Just some things leave me perplexed. Such as him telling me Davey Richards vs Eddie Edwards matches are "great".

EDIT ~ Brothers of Destruction vs Finlay & Booker was awesome. Didn't even know the match occurred or easily forgot about it. Still milking it towards the Undertaker vs Kane match atm.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> How does something like Jericho vs Benoit vs Angle trump matches like Punk vs Jericho, multiple MITBs, Punk vs Mysterio, Sheamus vs Triple H, Mysterio vs Rhodes, and etc. Those are all from the most recent WM's too. Not even taking into consideration more from the earlier editions. iirc Rockers vs Faces of Fear from WM 7 might be the best non-gimmick opener only behind the highly regarded Bret vs Owen match.


I personally prefer the triple threat to all of those matches except MITB III. All that matters is MITB I makes it. THE GOAT!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't even know what to say to that. Triple Threat is mediocre as hell.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, Wrestlemania 17 is an epic, EPIC fucking show with Angle/Benoit, TLC II, Trips/Taker, Rock/Austin, and smaller matches like Regal-Jericho to complement it. It's an awesome, awesome show from top to bottom and one of the greatest ever, but for people to say that it can't be surpassed or it hasn't been surpassed is just LOL worthy in my opinion. If you think it's the best show ever then whatever , it's your opinion, but to put down a show like XIX and lower your ratings on a few of those matches just so it doesn't pass X-7 (which I've seen some people do) is ridiculous.

Wrestlemania XIX was Rock's finest night for sure. his GOAT performance and GOAT promo are on this PPV. I was thinking about this earlier and I have to ask this ; _How many GOOD Rock matches exist in which shit doesn't spiral out of control ALA HHH/Jericho/Austin matches ? There's really only like 2 I can think of off the top of my head TBH. _

That Angle-Benoit-Jericho match is one of the most disappointing matches I've ever seen (watched it like 3 days ago 4 mah MANIA PROJECT) along with Austin-Benoit-Jericho from KOTR 2001 which wasn't BAD but it was AUSTIN IN 2001 AGAINST CHRIS BENOIT AND CHRIS JERICHO FOR FUCK SAKES .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, they could even prefer 17 over 19 without taking into "match ratings" into account. It's just when someone tries to say they didn't think 19 was all that special is when I get left scratching my head. It doesn't have to be your favorite, but it's a GREAT WrestleMania. Ideal if you ask me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I don't even know what to say to that. Triple Threat is mediocre as hell.


They are all 'middle of the road' to me with the rating being around ★★¾ to ★★★½. I just rank the WM16 triple threat higher. It's been a while since I lasted watched it, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's such an uninspired match. That's the problem. All the others I mentioned are actually really good if not great. I can't see the comparisons or favorable signs of the 3 way. Not a single bit.

**1/4 for the triple threat. Solid effort, but no buys. All 3 would have a better match come 17.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've never watched Wrestlemanias XXV and XXVI in full, but I'm anticipating XXVI to be in my top 4 honestly due to so many of the matches that I've seen on it being fucking awesome such as Taker-HBK (obvious, one of the GOAT matches period), Batista-Cena, Edge-Jericho, Mysterio-Punk, Hart-Mcmahon, MITB, and Triple H-Sheamus.

I think something there doesn't belong :vince.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I've never watched Wrestlemanias XXV and XXVI in full, but I'm anticipating XXVI to be in my top 4 honestly due to so many of the matches that I've seen on it being fucking awesome such as Taker-HBK (obvious, one of the GOAT matches period), Batista-Cena, Edge-Jericho, Mysterio-Punk, Hart-Mcmahon, MITB, and Triple H-Sheamus.
> 
> I think something there doesn't belong :vince.


I've watched 26 far too many times to count. It's one of my personal favorites. To no surprise, it is from 2010. That year enchants me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Mysterio/Punk, IMO, is one of the greatest WWE sub-10 minute matches ever. I still prefer their Smackdown match a week or two before, but it is still greatness. The amount they accomplish in 6 minutes, and for it all to make sense and be hugely entertaining, really says a lot about both men - Especially given the lack of build up heading in to Mania.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For me, I like WM 17, but nowhere near as much as some people do. WM 19 is the GOAT for me, then I'd have 24 and 26 behind it, and then 17. Soft spot for WM 22 as well, just because of how fun the whole event is.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Z said:


> For me, I like WM 17, but nowhere near as much as some people do. *WM 19 is the GOAT for me, then I'd have 24 and 26 behind it, and then 17*. Soft spot for WM 22 as well, just because of how fun the whole event is.


I'm thinking that's what's going to happen to me once I rewatch 24 and 26. When it comes to the CAL SCALE, I KNOW 26 is going to be high mainly because Taker-HBK should warrant like 11 points on it's own due to being******* and the MOTY (well, for now anyways... Who am I kidding), plus all of the awesome undercard being AWESOME.

24 has the MITB, Finlay-JBL, Flair-HBK, Orton-Cena-GAME, Show-Mayweather, and especially Edge-Taker. That should score fucking HIGH too, same with 22,21,20, and well... Every Wrestlemania from this point onwards .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I rated WM 17 on the CAL SCALE last night based on my current ratings. Got a 28. 8 whole points ahead of RR 2001 (aka the GOAT RR event). Sounds impressive, but RR 01 had 5 matches and one was a DUD, so only 4 matches went towards points. WM 17 had 11 matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WOW. I have Mania X-7 @ 27.5 points when I watched it on Monday, talk about precise shit right there. 

Wrestlemania will obviously have higher scores due to having so many more matches than any other show on the year, unless all of them or most of them are BAD (see, Wrestlemania IV). Wrestlemania XIX has been pretty impressive when it comes to points so far and I haven't even watched Angle-Lesnar.

Preliminary CAL SCALE ratings for every Wrestlemania before you do a rewatch ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't get the hate for Hogan/Andre at all. For Christ's sake, all that hate for a 10 minute match? I mean, it's no great match but, shit, it was fun while it lasted. Man, I wish Dave Meltzer could have given it at least ***. Maybe the match wouldn't get shit on as much.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can probably only do from say WM 16 onwards. Haven't reviewed any of the older ones, and hell, I haven't even SEEN a lot of the older ones all the way through. Just the odd match here and there. I'll go through my old reviews and get some CAL SCALE figures up in a little while.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I got a lot of love for Wrestlemania 22 as well. Mostly because it was the first ever Mania that I saw. Got some bootleg copy of it on DVD some months after it came out 

My favourite WM of all time is definitely 24. Talk about a card that was stacked with lots of fun. Heck, I even enjoyed Batista/Umaga for the train wreck that it was. 

I'm not as high on 17 as most people mostly because the undercard was absolute shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I hadn't seen a majority of the older Manias from start to finish until I started rewatching them for my MANIA!* project. You're in for a treat when it comes to most Wrestlemania matches from I-XV, as in like 90 percent of them aren't just bad, they're REALLY bad. I'd argue that when it comes to the first 10 Wrestlemanias that there's more matches I have rated to be DUDs than I have matches over *****. Seriously, a bulk of the first six in particular have a shit ton of BAD matches.

If you rewatch every Wrestlemania it makes you appreciate the current product more than ever. The first few Wrestlemanias are some of the worst shows I've ever seen for sure.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've only watched one full old school Mania and I believe it was Wrestlemania 4. Whichever one it was that had the tournament where Savage one. I know they were two tournament Manias but it was the one where Savages one (unless he won both, which in that case, then I don't know which freaking one I saw)

Yeah the matches were nothing special but hey at least psychology wise they were good. Dibiase vs Savage was pretty freaking fun from what I recall.

Oh and I just checked it out on Wikipedia, yes it was Mania 4. I see one of the matches listed is Roberts vs Rude, pretty sure that was a damn good match. It went to a time limit draw. Don't recall it though. Should check it out just for the hell of it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching Royal Rumble 2001 atm, don't really remember anything about it tbh, but Benoit/Jericho ladder match, what a match, fucking brilliant seriously, some great spots of course but lots of great wrestling imo too, just an outstanding all round match.

****1/2 I think, maybe higher I dunno, I know I fucking loved it though. Can't wait 'till I get to the actual rumble......Kane!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm one of the only human beings on this planet who likes Roberts-Rude, I do believe it's the MOTN all things considered for sure.

Wrestlemania IV is fucking horrendous. It has like 16 matches, none of them being higher than *** 3/4*. That Dibiase-Savage match is overrated because of who is in it and the moment after the match, and everything else is just too short to call good or extremely mediocre in the first place.

EDIT : FUCK I forgot about Steamboat-Valentine. That reached ***** and was the MOTN (it won't be on any lists so I don't care about revealing it )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 16 - 28 CAL SCALE ratings based on my old reviews:

WM 16 - 15
WM 17 - 28
WM 18 - 20.5
WM 19 - 33
WM 20 - 23.5
WM 21 - 20
WM 22 - 22
WM 23 - 21.5
WM 24 - 26
WM 25 - 21.5
WM 26 - 25.5
WM 27 - 17
WM 28 - 18

Should be interesting to see any changes in them. WM 19 atm is the only one I can't see changing at all unless I actually like a match MORE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So somebody likes Wrestlemania X-7 more than they led on originally ? 

It's okay, it could end up being ranked as my second best Mania if everything FAILS to hold up in the near future. I'm anticipating XX to have a fairly high score somewhere in the mid to high 20s since it has my MOTY on it as well.

I also love how Wrestlemania XXVII's score is over HALF contributed by Taker-HHH :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I used to love WM 17. I got my ratings for a review of it I did in... May 2008. My tastes in wrestling have changed a ton since then and my opinion of matches has gone down quite a bit too . Which is why I know it won't hold up too well, but will likely still remain fairly high because while the undercard isn't anything great, I get a lot of enjoyment out of a handful of the matches.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I am in my very, very early stages of my Top 1000, as in like 120 nominations so far lol, but so far, the WWE guy with the most matches on that list is...

MAH BOI CHRISTIAN with 13 matches, and that is stuff from 2009-2011, so yea dat update


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

More ratings for Elimination Chamber matches I've seen since my last post.

New Years Revolution 2005 - ****1/2
New Years Revolution 2006 - ****
December To Dismember - ***
No Way Out 2008 (WHC #1 Contender) - ***3/4
No Way Out 2008 (WWE #1 Contender) - ****


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I think WM 17 is a very good WM, but you can add me to the list who thinks WM 19 was better. Just quality matches (varying from decent to great) up and down the card. To me, it really doesn't get any better than that. As another poster brought up yesterday (I forget who), I love the atmosphere and look of the event, too. It was alittle bit on the dark side if you were watching it on PPV, and it just brought about a cool feel to it. WM 17 had a great atmosphere as well, and the crowd was great, especially for Austin/Rock. I enjoyed both but if I had to pick one, I'd pick WM 19. I mean, even Hogan/Vince was watchable, which is pretty insane. I also loved the opener of Hardy/Mysterio, just wish it got more than five minutes.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Fuck knows how you could do a top 1000 match list. By the time you've watched anything close to 3000 matches, which is the minimum you'd need to do a comprehensive top 1000, chances are your tastes would have changed so much just by watching a WIDE variety of different-styled matches, and your changed tastes would render your first couple hundred matches' ratings pointless.

Good luck to ya, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 2001 rumble, Drew Carey in the ring alone.....then Kane music hits lol.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Watching the 2001 rumble, Drew Carey in the ring alone.....then Kane music hits lol.


Lol, my favourite bit is where he tries to bribe Kane :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Lol, my favourite bit is where he tries to bribe Kane :lol


ha ha yeah mate, priceless, as is the Honky Tonk Man segment, the way Kane smashes him over the head with his guitar, then just throws the remains over his head, then just shakes his head then throws Honky out :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One of those RR 01 moments makes my top 10 list in my RR special that... I'm still editing :lmao. Need to re-shoot some stuff too. Bah. Never getting it done lol . Well hopefully its out before EC .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've also spotted R-Truth in the Rumble (I forget the name he went under then), never even realised he was in wwf back then tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> I've also spotted R-Truth in the Rumble (I forget the name he went under then), never even realised he was in wwf back then tbh.


K-Kwik. Teamed with Road Dogg for a while. They sang to the ring. It was terrible .


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

GETTIN' ROWDY.

2001 Rumble is the absolute bomb. I think I'm slightly biased towards it since it was the first one I saw, but it's just so much fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> K-Kwik. Teamed with Road Dogg for a while. They sang to the ring. It was terrible .


Bloody hell lol, don't remember that thank god, another great '01 rumble moment, Kane and Taker are in the ring alone, then who's music hits..........its Scotty 2 Hotty :lol , they just play around with him fir a short bit before dumping him out!!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Scotty gets fucked over quite a few times in the RR. Twice involving Undertaker .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What are your top 5 best and WORST matches from DUBYA CEE DUBYA and E CEE DUBYA (counting the DUBYADUBYAECEEDUBYA version too)?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Worst for WWE

5) Undertaker vs. Bossman WM15 (Best of the worst) 

4) Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart WM27

3) Koslov vs. HHH SVS 2008 (I know it ended up a triple threat for the last couple of minutes, but up until that point it was the most brutal shit I'd ever had to sit through... to that point in time)

1-2) The two Lawler/Cole PPV matches... haven't watched them since they've aired, and I just can't bring myself too as they were both just incredibly awful. I must say the WM one is a tad worse only because it ate up time at Mania. They're easily the worst matches I've ever seen though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker/Boss Man absolutely doesn't belong there. You can just change it with some stupid shit like Teddy Long vs Eric Bischoff from SVS 05 or that tuxedo match from last year with Ricardo and Santino. "The worst cell match ever" has been shitted on so much that it's become fun to just laugh at it. For me, at least.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Never seen 01 Rumble.  Sounds like I'm missing out.

Rawk's 5 worst match list is pretty spot on. Kennel From Hell should be an honorable mention imo. There was an impromptu match featuring a jobber beating down another jobber on PPV that was absolutely shat upon by the fans in attendance. Wasn't even really a match, but it was horrid. I want to say it was Tyson Tomko beating up Stevie Richards or something.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Backlash 2002
9:09 Tajiri vs Billy Kidman - **1/4
5:44 Scott Hall vs Bradshaw - 1/2*
4:28 Trish Stratus vs Jazz - 1/2*
5:32 Jeff Hardy vs Brock Lesnar - *
13:26 Kurt Angle vs Edge - ***1/4
11:44 Eddie Guerrero vs Rob Van Dam - ***1/4
27:00 Undertaker vs Stone Cold - **
6:00 Billy & Chuck vs Al Snow & Maven - *1/4
22:05 Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs Triple H - *1/2

Overall: 5/10 - This PPV was pure garbage except the Angle/Edge and Eddie/RVD matches. Watching Brock destroy Jeff Hardy was fun as well. The two main events were downright painful to sit through.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Holy crap! Tomko/Richards! Can't believe I forgot that! That will probably replace Taker/Bossman. Teddy/Bischoff was awful, but from what I remember it thankfully didn't last very long, or at least I don't remember it feeling like it lasted that long.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Was I actually right that it was Tomko/Richards? LOL, good guess. I just thought of two jobbers, one being bigger than the other, and out came "Tomko vs Richards." What a fucking nightmare. What show was that on?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Unforgiven 04 if I'm not mistaken. Richards was in a dress for weeks to that point I believe.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stevie Richards should have been renamed Stevie Jobber at that time. His presence was always embarrassing. Being Victoria's "valet" and coming out to her music, getting attacked by HHH because he thought it was Shawn Michaels and obviously the dressing as a red-hair woman. Oh, and who can forget Heidenreich and Chris Masters injuring him in their debut matches. Heidenreich did it TWICE in the space of three weeks. :lol


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Stevie Richards was an awesome worker. Be it the obnoxious, funny-but-creepy cheerleader guy in ECW/WCW or the antagonising, self righteous cult leader of the Right To Censor in WWE. Pity he was injury prone throughout his entire career. One of the most underrated guys of all time I reckon.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

ATF said:


> What are your top 5 best and WORST matches from DUBYA CEE DUBYA and E CEE DUBYA (counting the DUBYADUBYAECEEDUBYA version too)?


Worst for WCW is as follows

1. Warrior vs. Hogan
2. Warrior vs. Hogan
3. Warrior vs. Hogan
4. Warrior vs. Hogan
5. Warrior vs. Hogan


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Worst WCW matches? All of the matches involving that Vinny Vegas fella.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Honorable mention to the NWO vs. Wolfpac vs. WCW vs. Warrior War Games match.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> Honorable mention to the NWO vs. Wolfpac vs. WCW vs. Warrior War Games match.


it was a masterpiece compared to the wargames they randomly had on nitro in 2000 that was a triple cage that vince russo won


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Wrestlemania XII*

Vader, Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Yokozuna, Ahmed Johnson, & Jake Roberts - ***1/2*
Stone Cold vs. Savio Vega - **** (terrible finish)
Ultimate Warrior vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - *** (entertaining squash)
Undertaker vs. Diesel - ***** (longer than it needed to be)
Roddy Piper vs. Goldust - ***1/2* (decent brawl)
Iron Man Match for WWF Title: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels - ******* (The best WM main event of all time)

Overall - 8/10

I know it's disappointing, but you have a watchable undercard and one of the greatest matches of all time taking up an hour of the show.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Honorable mention to the NWO vs. Wolfpac vs. WCW vs. Warrior War Games match.


That is nothing compared to Hogan and Savage beating 8 wrestlers in a Handicap Doomsday Cage Match back at Uncensored 1996.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Going to a houseshow on 3/16 (AUSTIN 3:16?!?!?!?!) in Rhode Island~! Just got the tix. I'd mark the fuck out if they did one of those New Age Outlaws vs Rhodes Scholars matches at it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Way Out 2008*
*
Undertaker vs Batista vs Finlay vs The Great Khali vs MVP vs Big Daddy V (Elimination Chamber)*
- Was a bit disappointed in this. I heard a lot about the 08 chamber matches and expected this to be better but it was still good. Starts off with Batista and Undertaker as the first two men in the ring. Undertaker is in control for most of that portion in the match and the action is rather slow. But what followed didn't help at this point. The Great Khali and Big Daddy V entering back to back and the quick eliminations didn't really freshen the match up in any way. It should have been Finlay at #3 to bring some variety under that portion of the match but thankfully, the worthless giants find the exit pretty fast so they are harmless for the most part. Finlay and MVP don't last very long either, however. MVP is eliminated in the second best spot of the match as he tries to escape the Undertaker by heading to the top of the pod. He then does a backflip to the mat in form of a one hand Chokeslam by Undertaker which results in his elimination. After that, the match slows down but Hornswoggle creeping up between what little space there is between the chamber and the ring to hand Finlay the shillelagh was pretty cool. Finlay uses the weapon to gain the upper-hand but Undertaker Chokeslams him to the steel which brings us back to where we started. Only this time Batista and Undertaker are both bleeding. Crowd heavily support Undertaker and they go at it up until the best spot in the match when Undertaker reverses Batista's move into a Tombstone above the top rope and connects with the move for his ticket to Wrestlemania XXIV's main event. A good chamber match but not great. Needed more main event stars of Batista and Taker's caliber and bringing out Khali and Big Vis back to back didn't help. ★★★

*Triple H vs Jeff Hardy vs JBL vs Umaga vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber)*
- Now _this_ was absolutely awesome and lived up to all the hype. Similar to the 2005 classic, this starts off with the best two pure wrestlers as HBK and Jericho go at it for the first 5 minutes in regular ring wrestling. Then Umaga comes in third and absolutely wrecks shit plus delivers an awesome double Samoan Drop on both guys which the crowd applauds. But right before the next entrant, Jericho and HBK do a callback spot to 2005 as they lock in the Walls of Jericho and the Crossface on Umaga (where are you, Benoit? ) but he refuses to tap out and JBL breaks up the hold as he enters with the reason being his feud with Jericho at the time. HHH comes in next and the awesomeness only continues. JBL ends up being the first elimination after a Codebreaker and in a sore loser way, refuses to leave without making an impact. He brings in a couple of chairs and hits everyone except the laid out HHH with chair shots to the head, busting Jericho open in the process. Jeff Hardy enters last and is also on a roll with his high-flying offense all over the corners. They continue most of the match with all 5 men in the ring until Umaga takes finishers from everybody and is eliminated but Jericho gets eliminated instantly after pinning Umaga and then it doesn't take HBK much long before he's the victim of a Pedigree. Last two men are Hardy and HHH but they don't really wrestle for much longer than 5 minutes. Pedigree leads to a Hardy kick out which the crowd cheers and then the steel chair in the ring finally comes into play as HHH resorts to using that to put Hardy out of this and head to WM24 to challenge for the WWE Championship. GREAT match and by far one of the best chambers, my only complaint is the fast eliminations where they ripped a page out of the 2003 book. I just don't like it when numerous people get eliminated back to back and then there's only a brief amount of action between the final two. But the rest of the match is too great to get knocked down. ★★★★

Now before Sunday, I'll try to finish watching all the chamber matches so I can officially have my ranking for them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah that Smackdown 2008 chamber isn't the best with the only positive I can think of off the top of my head would be Taker-Batista and that AWZUM finishing stretch. Batista and Taker had some MAD face-face chemistry that's kind of crazy for a guy like Batista to have. This is why I'd never be opposed to Sheamus-Taker if it ever happened (it won't, I know). Sheamus works with BIGS really well, Undertaker works well with big EXPLOSIVE mother fuckers like Lesnar and Batista, it would be a match made in heaven tbh.

WRASSLEMANIA XX COMIN' UP. ANYBODY GOT DEM STARZ FO DIS  ?

I'm really looking forward to this HBK-HHH main event that ends in a draw. :vince


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

And the title goes missing for five months until it's discovered at SummerSlam? rton2

Actually, I checked out Orton's milestones on wwe.com and one of the pics for his first title victory gives a close-up of the championship. On the plate, I can read some name that's spelled something like CH___ ___OIT. The middle of it is covered by the shiny light so I couldn't make out the entirety of it. 

WM XX:
John Cena vs Big Show - ★★¾
World Tag Team Four Way - ★★½
Christian vs Jericho - ★★★
Evolution vs Rock n Sock - ★★★¼
Evening Gown - N/A
Cruiserweight Open - ★★¾
Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar - ★
WWE Tag Team Four Way - ★★
Victoria vs Molly Holly - ★★
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ★★★½
Undertaker vs Kane - ★¼
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★★

I saw most of the event right before WM28, so I don't recall it all too well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

John Cena vs Big Show - **
World Tag Team Four Way - *
Christian vs Jericho - ****1/2
Evolution vs Rock n Sock - **
Cruiserweight Open - **
Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar - *
WWE Tag Team Four Way - **
Victoria vs Molly Holly - 1/2*
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ***
Undertaker vs Kane - **1/2
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - ****3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nobody has any love for Eddie-Angle? Haven't seen it in like two years, what the hell is up with that match  ?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Wrestlemania XX:

John Cena vs. Big Show - **
Tag Team Championship Fourway #1 - *3/4
Chris Jericho vs. Christian - ***1/4
Evolution vs. Rock and Sock - **1/2
Cruiserweight Open - **1/4
Goldberg vs. Lesnar - DUD, but the most entertaining DUD to watch, in my opinion.
Tag Team Championship Fourway #2 - **
Victoria vs. Molly Holly - *1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle - ***1/2
Undertaker vs. Kane - **
Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - *****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Nobody has any love for Eddie-Angle? Haven't seen it in like two years, what the hell is up with that match  ?


I think it's great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You know, I heard the weirdest thing about a house show in 2007 after Benoit died that I read from some dude on another forum. There was a Cena v Orton match main eventing the show, and apparently Orton locked in the sharpshooter, then looked toward the roof and mouthed "_WHY..?_" I imagine it could have been bone-chilling to notice that live.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Nobody has any love for Eddie-Angle? Haven't seen it in like two years, what the hell is up with that match  ?



It's very good but slightly over-praised imo. I think their Smackdown matches later in 04 and early 05 are better than the Mania match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> You know, I heard the weirdest thing about a house show in 2007 after Benoit died that I read from some dude on another forum. There was a Cena v Orton match main eventing the show, and apparently Orton locked in the sharpshooter, then looked toward the roof and mouthed "_WHY..?_" I imagine it could have been bone-chilling to notice that live.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I don't know exactly why, but when I pictured that in my head it sounds like the most hilarious thing ever. For some reason I pictured Orton breaking into an all out "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" and crying in the middle of the ring to the shock and awe of all in attendance.

Either that, or Orton was incredibly HIGH like only vintage Randy could be and let his inner emotions slip out for a second.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I remember reading that Orton report around the time it first came out, and tbh his reaction there, better than anything else, speaks perfectly for the rest of us when it comes to Benoit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> You know, I heard the weirdest thing about a house show in 2007 after Benoit died that I read from some dude on another forum. There was a Cena v Orton match main eventing the show, and apparently Orton locked in the sharpshooter, then looked toward the roof and mouthed "_WHY..?_" I imagine it could have been bone-chilling to notice that live.


Wow, that was bone chilling for me just by reading it. And here I just found the full article. I guess the change from white wrist tape to black that I brought up a few days ago the week after the tragedy had with Benoit to do.

I really wish Orton would talk about Benoit in more details whether through an interview or elsewhere. All I've seen from him is a comment on twitter after somebody asked him a question where he said something like "Not condoning what he did, but I don't see what's wrong with remembering him before he went insane". I also have seen this video where he asks the guy he's signing an autograph for "Do you know who that is?" pointing at Benoit in the SummerSlam 04 ticket.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I have Angle/Eddie at ****. I really liked that match and the creative finish.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

John Cena vs Big Show - ***
World Tag Team Four Way - **1/2
Christian vs Jericho - ****
Evolution vs Rock n Sock - ***3/4
Evening Gown - N/A
Cruiserweight Open - **3/4
Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar - N/A
WWE Tag Team Four Way - **
Victoria vs Molly Holly - **
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4
Undertaker vs Kane - **
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - *****

One of my favorite shows ever.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That Orton story is pretty damn cool.

But yeah, I really like Guerrero/Angle from Mania. Thought they worked a much smarter match than a lot of Angle's big matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THIS. PPV. HAS. SO. MUCH. FILLER.

I'm @ the evening gown match and I've realized that they did women's wrestling right in the ruthless aggression era ; either awesome Trish/Lita/Mickie matches , or objectifying them all together in EVENING GOWN matches, having them wrestle in barely nothing at all. GOD DAMN, is it just me or did Sable get hotter with age ? AND WHO GETS TO BANG DAT ?

DAT BROCKTAGON WITH DAT COCKTAGON :brock

Cole and Tazz are pretty hilarious during this, objectifying women at it's finest :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> THIS. PPV. HAS. SO. MUCH. FILLER.
> 
> I'm @ the evening gown match and I've realized that they did women's wrestling right in the ruthless aggression era ; either awesome Trish/Lita/Mickie matches , or objectifying them all together in EVENING GOWN matches, having them wrestle in barely nothing at all. GOD DAMN, is it just me or did Sable get hotter with age ? AND WHO GETS TO BANG DAT ?
> 
> ...


Agreed. Rather see the divas prance around in next to nothing than attempt to wrestle.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh, this show has just WAAAYYY too much filler to be considered as one of the GOAT shows in my opinion. It's like one of the early Wrestlemanias on steroids ; tons of matches, tons of filler, but FAR superior work @ XX than any of the early day Manias.

I mean between the CW open, the TWO tag fatal four ways, and TWO divas matches, that's literally FIVE matches on the card that I don't care about in the slightest. Goldberg-Lesnar is awesome in it's own way, so that doesn't count as BORING. I just can't wait to get these next two filler matches out of the way so I can see Eddie/Angle, Taker/Kane, and finally one of my greatest rated matches ever in Benoit/HHH/HBK (always like to check on a consistent basis to see if all of my five star matches hold up).

The APA are truly 18 thousand different kinds of awesome though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hearing good things about Del Rio/Ziggler from Main Event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think DOLPH is one of those guys who has the potential to just take his shit to the next level and become one of THE pinnacle workers of this era alongside the likes of Punk and Bryan, but for now I feel he needs to work on his control segments a little more if he's going to work heel. When a babyface comeback occurs he's fucking MINT though IMO.

If they turned Dolph face somehow and had him work against Mark "RATINGZ" Henry it would be MOTY, seriously. Then again, I honesty wouldn't be surprised if Henry walked away with the MOTY this year if he's full time all year.

If PUNK-TAKER happens, my bet is that will finish out as a top 5 MOTY. Over the last four years I've had a match at *******, (I don't have a single match from 2008, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1999, 1998, you get the point by now ) so I'm honestly expecting that Streak to end this year but you never know. This could be a 2010 type of year where there's one DEFINITIVE MOTY and a whole bunch of consistency, or it could be a 2012 type year where there are a ton of choices for MOTY but not really big in the consistency department.

Hell, it could be like 2001 or 2005 in the sense that it was consistent AND had some REALLY fucking top heavy matches. If Elimination Chamber and Mania don't give us a classic than I'm just going to abandon all hope. RYBACK is in my current WWE MOTY... WHAT. THE. FUCK :lol


----------



## cena542007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2013

Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio - *** 1/4
Bryan/Kane vs. Rhodes/Sandow - **
Royal Rumble Match - *** 1/2
CM Punk vs. The Rock ** 3/4

Overall: 6.5/10

I've always liked the Royal Rumble, and this one wasn't too bad.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Hearing good things about Del Rio/Ziggler from Main Event.


Great great tv match. around 20 mins...

Good moves, good counters and good crowd once the pace accelerated.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Yeah1993 said:


> You know, I heard the weirdest thing about a house show in 2007 after Benoit died that I read from some dude on another forum. There was a Cena v Orton match main eventing the show, and apparently Orton locked in the sharpshooter, then looked toward the roof and mouthed "_WHY..?_" I imagine it could have been bone-chilling to notice that live.


That's one of the most hilariously retarded things I've ever read here. For a second there you literally had me on the brink of gagging on a piece of crouton.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

WM 20


Christian/Jericho - ****
Evolution/Rock and Sock Connection - ****
Angle/Guerrero - ****1/4
WHC Triple Threat - ****3/4

-Really great show, I didn't mind the filler if i'm honest, thought it was a lot of fun most of it. 
-That being said, nearly 5 hours of PPV is too long to keep me invested throughout the whole event.
-One thing that I think this show lacked was a decent gimmick match that most WM's tend to have, not that it hampered my enjoyment of the show. 
-Kane/Taker and Goldberg/Lesnar were both brilliant spectacles, matches weren't great but they didn't need to be.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NO! said:


> *Wrestlemania XII*
> 
> Vader, Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Yokozuna, Ahmed Johnson, & Jake Roberts - ***1/2*
> Stone Cold vs. Savio Vega - **** (terrible finish)
> ...


I knew there had to be that one person out there. Found.

:|


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've legitimately never seen the iron man match. It's the kind of thing that just doesn't seem worth it, even if it is a very significant match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of the Iron Man match, what are some of your favorite _broadway matches_? Flair/Steamboat at the Clash in 89 didn't go the full hour but it's close enough and an all-time classic wrestling match. I absolutely adore the Bockwinkel/Hennig AWA World Title Match from Vegas in 86. Both of those would are five star matches in my book. I've significantly gone down on the Michaels/Hart Iron Man but it's still a special moment for me watching two of my childhood favorites wrestle and Michaels winning the gold.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ric Flair vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts '86 & 1/20/87.

I bet if I were to relive Rock vs Game from Judgment Day 2000 it would hold up. I remember too much stellar stuff from it not to.

Most other time limit draw matches I'm thinking of seem to revert back to Ring of Honor with Danielson, Punk or Joe involved.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

All Tagged Classics are now in the Buy 2 Get 1 Free sale @ SilverVision

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/category/Tagged-Classics/page1.html


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Kurt Angle vs BROCK LESNAR.

They pretty much perfected the gameplan in that match that had been done before many times in matches like this (heel gets DQ'ed by using a chair or something to gain an advantage for the rest of the match) and BROCK kept his control segments epic while Angle actually played a pretty effective Babyface-in-peril throughout the match which is fucking WEIRD to say about Angle.

Wrestlemania XX was fucking LONG to sit through all at once, but too it's credit managed to score pretty damn high with it's Title main events delivering, Christian and Chris Jericho going out there and giving a hell of a performance, and Foley/Flair going out there and carrying the rest of those CHUMPZ at the time to a decent match. Plus, you have DAT UNDERTAKER RETURN with the epic Paul Bearer "OHH YESSSSSSSSSSS" which is a really, really special moment. Love when he looks at Kane and says "YOU'RE NO SON OF MINE!" , made me :lol .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> I bet if I were to relive Rock vs Game from Judgment Day 2000 it would hold up. I remember too much stellar stuff from it not to.


One of the most thrilling 60 Minutes in WWF history! 

Race & Lawler had a great broadway as well during their World Title feud in the late 70s.


I thought Benoit/Trips Iron Man COULD have been great but it felt like the match never kicked into another gear or had any great substantial twists & turns. It was well pace throughout but for me it never did ascend to the next level.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really have to own that match. Wait, think I saw Judgment Day 2000 to nab off of XWT...

dammit. It's only 1998. Boooo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I LOVE the Benoit/Game Ironman but it's like they started in first gear, then moved to second halfways through, then they just said FUCKIT' and stayed at that pace for the rest of the match. That match could have been a top 5 MOTY if they Eugene shit and had a really solid final 20 minutes.

Benoit and GAME always work well though, just another one of Benoit's great rivalries. I'd be lying if I said Benoit wasn't literally like 80 percent of what made the MANIA triple threat so amazing, he just brought it that night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit is Benoit. He always brought it.






Drop what your doing, watching, saying, etc. Watch this. 9 minutes of two spectacular (and huge) dudes knocking the crap out of each other. Take a glimpse at the fans while you watch this. They almost don't know what to make of it considering it was such a different type match. If the two Batista matches before Backlash 2008 were anything special, Undertaker might have had his strongest month EVER right here. _(vs Edge x2, vs KANE, & vs Festus)_


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Clique said:


> Speaking of the Iron Man match, what are some of your favorite _broadway matches_? Flair/Steamboat at the Clash in 89 didn't go the full hour but it's close enough and an all-time classic wrestling match. I absolutely adore the Bockwinkel/Hennig AWA World Title Match from Vegas in 86. Both of those would are five star matches in my book. I've significantly gone down on the Michaels/Hart Iron Man but it's still a special moment for me watching two of my childhood favorites wrestle and Michaels winning the gold.


Flair/Windham BOTB II and Worldwide 1/20/87 immediately spring to mind. Love the consistent theme of the rookie phenom in Windham outwrestling and outclassing Flair for the duration of the bout and the story centreing on Flair's resiliency and tenacity in overcoming Windham's immense ability and working to dictate the pace. Flair capitalising on any Windham error through inexperience as the basis for his comebacks always impresses me.

Lawler/Race from 12/10/77 as you mentioned in your next post is a classic. Wrote about it a while back:



> Match that really doesn't get talked about amongst classic American wrestling but on first watch I'd say this match is right up there with many Flair broadways. Its incredibly physical and sluggish and definitely won't be to the tastes of your WORKRATE~ fans but if you love Jerry Lawler then I can see this being a favourite.
> 
> Match reminds me of Reed vs Flair Mid South in the opening stages as Lawler controls Race with a headlock spot and finds new ways to stop Race countering and its all very nice in building support for Lawler and making Race look like he's in for a rough night. Can't say Race does nearly as well in the role as a Dick Murdoch or Ric Flair would have done but he was perfectly fine in trying to work within the headlock and not simply rest for a few minutes.
> 
> ...


Murdoch/Reed from Mid South 9/22/85 goes 45 minutes but I feel like mentioning it in the discussion. Wonderfully worked match which progressively builds to Murdoch's eventual heel turn.

Flair vs Kerry Hawaii 12/10/85 should also be in the discussion. A top 5 Flair title defence imo:



Spoiler: review



The opening 10 minutes or so sees Kerry come out like a house on fire and besting Flair in very pedestrian esque matwork. I've seen a few people disappointed by this spell of the match but I had no problem with Von Erich using basic holds to maintain an advantage as it got him over as being on Flair's level right from the get go, and territories wrestling was never going to have Lucha esque matwork, but instead focused on making 1 competitor look better by hanging with the champ and this section of the match definitely fulfilled its role in making Flair look below Kerry.

They then start a headlock control segment and Flair is always a blast working from the bottom in these sorts of holds. He lets Von Erich control enough to make it look impactful and part of a strategy but makes sure to work in a few pin attempts to break it up into more than just a rest hold. Kerry dropping some sick knees to Flair's head to combat Flair trying to counter out of the hold was something I wasn't expecting and totally marked out for.

As is usually the story in Flair title defences, a mistake from Kerry costs him the advantage. Kerry already nearly blew his advantage by rushing into the turnbuckle and injuring his shoulder, but this time he gets a little ahead of himself and his overconfidence results in Flair getting the knees up to a splash and working the ribs for the next few minutes. Kerry sells it more like he can't breath and stand rather than collapsing on the mat like some workers do and given the pace they'd wrestled at and would continue to go at, I dug Flair working over the ribs with kicks and choking Kerry to slow him down and wear him out. A lot of the time people might complain Flair ignores the ribs later on but I always find this sort of control segment usually comes off of Flair being dominated for the early going of a match, and instead of being his main control segment it usually feels more like a chance for Flair to recuperate from his early beating and establish him still being able to use his experience to gain control at any moment. The segment rocks in putting over Flair as a tough SOB who can control Kerry at any moment whilst driving home Kerry's inexperience may cost him the match.

Flair though makes a terrible mistake via a missed kneedrop which allows Kerry to now go to town on Flair's right knee in a revenge segment for the ribs and choke workover a few minutes ago. Again this is now the more impactful control segment in terms of being sold in the closing moments and Kerry destroys the knee. He kicks the crap out of it before drilling it into the ring post and Flair's reaction is terrific in making you feel Kerry has just landed a crucial advantage. Kerry then locks a figure four dead centre in the middle of the ring and the crowd EXPLODES in anticipation of a title change occurring. Flair sells his ass off during the submission before finally making it to the ropes and the heat is incredible. Kerry then drags him back to the ring for a second figure four before stopping and locking in THE IRON CLAW on the weakened knee and now this match has gone from good to freaking awesome. Such a unique but clever spot in making Kerry look as smart in Flair in going back to his trusted submission instead of getting caught up in trying to humiliate Flair. Flair's subsequent selling of this is tremendous, he hobbles and grimaces in pain and towards the end keeps selling it every now and then to let you know the damage has been done.

Flair's resilience proves to much though for Kerry and as he continues to be unable to lock in a killer submission he again makes a rash move and misses a kneedrop and his subsequent selling is incrdible. He hops backwards and bails immediately to the floor in agony desperate not to put any weight on the knee, the commentators speculate he may have blown his knee and Kerry is selling this about as good as he can. Flair spots an opportunity and works the knee but is unable to lock in the figure four (albeit a commercial break occurs so for all I know he locked it in during commercial).

Kerry and Flair now enter the closing stages, around 10 minutes has been clipped as we have only 5 minutes left before a 60 minute draw but only 40 odd minutes has been televised. Both men look lethargic and handicapped from the legwork and Kerry still doesn't seem to be entirely comfortable from Flair's constant going back to the ribs as a cut off spot for Kerry's offence. Flair though again makes a rash move in desperation to best Kerry and tries the double axe handle off the top rope from the upside down corner bump but Kerry catches him in the Claw again!!! Once again Flair's frustration and overconfidence has been his downfall and so far he's had no counter for the claw other than a rope break. Kerry turns it into a modified sleeper and drags him away from the ropes and Flair sells his desperation terrificly, backing Kerry into the turnbuckle as well as repeated punches to the weakened ribs, Kerry will not be denied though and keeps it locked in and Flair looks to have passed out.....BUT 60 MINUTES ARE UP AND FLAIR SURVIVES AGAIN!!!

Amazing match built around a fantastic performance from Kerry both on offence and selling. Flair ruled it with his bumping and selling of the figure four and Iron Claw attempts and worked less of a Nature Boy match than I'm accustomed to watching. Each sequence built terrificly into Kerry's inexperience proving his downfall and Flair's resilience often allowing him to stay in the match despite Kerry looking far and away the better man.



Murdoch vs Windham from UWF 7/11/87 is also a stellar encounter and worth mentioning. Built entirely around a tremendous slowburn pace and exceptional selling from Murdoch and Windham.

I feel like people should be mentioning Flair/Wahoo McDaniel Battle of the Belts 2/3 falls 9/2/85. It goes 45 minutes plus whilst having a decisive finish, but it needs mentioning!



Spoiler: continued rambling thoughts



First fall here is really really terrific stuff. Probably one of my most favourite falls in any 2/3 falls match I've seen. Flair is ruling it as the biggest piece of trash to hit Florida and really comes across like some Actor who got nominated for 1 Oscar who suddenly thinks he's Robert Duval. He's pushing the ref and lecturing him on how to do his job, jostling with fans who think he sucks and there's this great spot where Flair's working over the left arm and yells at the camera man to get out of his face and he won't warn him again. Aside from Flair kicking ass as a character the in ring work is superb. They build McDaniel's chops to be lethal and the early opening has Flair constantly getting bested in the chop exchanges and regularly bailing to the floor. This all builds to McDaniel having an answer for everything Flair throws and a drop toe hold leads to him working over Flair's leg. Flair lets out an epic scream and despite the hold only beinng used for maybe 45 seconds Flair sells the leg better than most guys will sell 5 minute workovers these days. He limps after each step, takes his time in the corner to pull himself up, shakes the leg when he's working over McDaniel's arm and there's this amazing spot where he snapmares McDaniel, deliberately gets off the ground carefully and then misses an elbow drop instead of the patented kneedrop I was expecting.

Flair's desperation leads to him getting incredibly violent throughout the fall, first with some nasty boots to the stomach of McDaniel before throwing him to the floor and smashing his shoulder into the ring post. From here Flair's workover of the arm is sensational, he has some unique submissions we never see him bust out as well as some subtle touches such as an awesome quirk where he has McDaniel in a hammerlock on the mat and he starts working over the fingers of McDaniel at the same time. He's always looking to cheat as well at any opportunity and the crowd response is terrific. Flair makes a mistake though again in trying to go toe-to-toe with McDaniel and pays for it dearly as McDaniel locks in an insanely awesome headlock/sleeper submission and Flair is terrific at frantically grabbing at the ropes before slowly collapsing to the mat and being pinned. Incredible opening to the match which really put over McDaniel as a star and had a Lucha feel to the fall in terms of giving McDaniel great momentum into the second fall and making Flair's desperation to come back all the more greater.

Second fall honestly may be just as good if I'm honest. Flair's selling off the sleeper from the last fall is great early on with him constantly having to shake off the cobwebs and get focused. McDaniel even attempts the sleepr again and Flair flies to the ropes with everything he has, just immaculate in putting over the sleeper as a move he can't escape. The way he paces the fall and tries to move into a better position really reminded me of Fujiwara who is probably the best defensive wrestler of all time. Even the simplest of lock ups just came across as Flair trying to think two steps ahead of McDaniel and find some way of regaining the momentum. He truly came across as 'The Man' in this fall. He sells the leg extremely well in it affecting him to the point where he's not 100% but still comes across as something he's capable of fighting through to retain the belt.

He regains the advantage after McDaniel blasts him with a hellacious chop which sends Flair spiralling to the floor. Flair catches the leg and sets about tearing it out of its socket. He rams it into the post, stamps on it (and immediately sells the left leg on impact) and then there's a ridiculously awesome spot where Flair goes for an elbow drop, leans all the way back for maximum impact...but pauses because his leg is affected by it! Immense selling and detail from this genius. Flair's also quick to play the arrogant prick from the first fall by constantly arguing with the ref over a slow count. The finish is actually quite good. Flair has slowly become more aggressive because McDaniel has been able to survive the figure four including one sweet reversal by holding onto Flair's left leg and attempting to twist it to break the hold. Flair busts McDaniel open and then after a ref bump and a bridge backslide from Wahoo, Flair snaps and rams McDaniel's head off the ring post twice before bringing him into the ring and finishing him off with a very impactful knee drop. It was a typical 80s finish that would probably give fans heart attacks these days in how simple it was but I had no mither with it, everything built well to it and Flair was amazing throughout.

Must say as well the commentary between Solie & Graham is a joy to behold in putting over both men and the in ring action as well as the various strategies employed by both men. There's no WWE 2011 bullshit commentary with such wit as 'McDaniel's love for the NWA belt is only bettered by his love of fried foods'.

Third fall is surprising short but it still awesome. Both men sell the damage from going 45 minutes and McDaniel takes it upon himself to return the favour and have Flair bleed like a stuffed pig. They tease the sleeper again and Flair appears to have no answer for the hold and fights for all his life, McDaniel is pissed and wants to choke him out and his anger gets the best of him as Flair with all his might kicks off of the corner turnbuckle and collapses to the mat with McDaniel having a rear naked choke applied but unaware his shoulders have been counted to 3 on the mat!! A part of me would have preferred a more drawn out finishing fall but I still loved McDaniel seemingly being thrown off of his game by Flair's actions and inadvertantly costing himself the match along with putting over Flair as a man who values the NWA Championship above all. Perhaps a more drawn out 3rd fall would see this going the full 5* but as of now its a freaking awesome match but just not at the level of Flair vs Kerry or the other 80s gems from Flair's locker.



Backlund vs Valentine MSG 2/19/79 is also exceptional and arguably my pick for best broadway in WWWF/WWF/WWE history.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That match is weirdly captivating, Hayley. Good stuff. Didn't expect that much from Festus, he was good. Even Cole and Coach sounded pretty surprised how much he was holding his own. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I LOVE the Benoit/Game Ironman but it's like they started in first gear, then moved to second halfways through, then they just said FUCKIT' and stayed at that pace for the rest of the match. That match could have been a top 5 MOTY if they Eugene shit and had a really solid final 20 minutes.
> 
> Benoit and GAME always work well though, just another one of Benoit's great rivalries. I'd be lying if I said Benoit wasn't literally like 80 percent of what made the MANIA triple threat so amazing, he just brought it that night.


Benoit/HHH Vengeance and iron man are both very good/great. Annoys me that they could have been considerably better if Eugene wasn't around. The way Benoit charged into the turnbuckles off those irish whips :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Benoit/HHH Vengeance and iron man are both very good/great. Annoys me that they could have been considerably better if Eugene wasn't around. The way Benoit charged into the turnbuckles off those irish whips :mark:


Yeah Benoit and HHH always worked well together. What does everyone think of their No Mercy 2000 match?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't seen it in a long time but it's fairly super and their best singles match from what I recall. Possibly a top 5 non-gimmick singles match for Trips.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That match is weirdly captivating, Hayley. Good stuff. Didn't expect that much from Festus, he was good. Even Cole and Coach sounded pretty surprised how much he was holding his own. Thanks for posting.


(Y)

Festus/Gallows/D.O.C. is quite the worker, tbhayley. An underrated cat.

Watched Undertaker vs Vladimir Koslov from 2/27/09 and that held up nicely too. A lesser slugfest, but nonetheless something to be proud of considering it was a _good_ Koslov match. _(speaking of whom, Koslov vs Festus from August 2008 is rather great.)_ Beauty of this match was putting Koslov over by having all of these neat counters for Undertaker's signature moves. Chokeslam, a brilliant reversal out of Hell's Gate, and finally Old School. The latter would prove to be the demise of the Deadman as Koslov got the shocking upset. **1/2. Not bad at all. 

Undertaker is the GOAT.



Saint Dick said:


> Benoit/HHH Vengeance and iron man are both very good/great. Annoys me that they could have been considerably better if Eugene wasn't around. The way Benoit charged into the turnbuckles off those irish whips :mark:


The systematic assault on Benoit's ribs/midsection in the Vengeance match rules. I mark out for the use of the release front suplex to bash up Benoit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Taker match is fucked, to think he even destroys FAKE KANE .

That No Mercy 2000 Match is pretty fucking awesome, but I'd still probably put it behind their gold rush match. Trips and Benoit had a crazy chemistry where they literally had not a single match that was AVERAGE, let alone bad. Their chemistry was special and nowadays I've only seen it from the likes of Christian-Orton and Punk-Cena. What makes Trips-Benoit even more special is that even if they weren't in a program together they would still go out and kill it in the ring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

UNDERTAKER VS FESTUS LOVE. YES.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

UNDERTAKER

Looking for another gem of his right now. Looking to see if any will top the Festus match. Going to be quite a challenge.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Undertaker doesn't get enough love in some circles as a GOAT WWE candidate. The guy was shoveled shit on a consistent basis and was told to turn it into something watchable for over like 5 years straight and instead of bitching about it and giving a half assed effort like Orton, he went out and delivered. Arguably the best big match performer ever for sure, and with the gimmick that he was given that's a fucking miracle. MARK made it work.

Opened up a Top 50 professional wrestlers book @ a local bookstore the other day and say Taker @ 36 or something while ROCK was 10, CENA was 31, and Triple H was 15th I do believe. What a fucking joke .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody, you seen his match with Luger from GAB 90 in WCW? I personally think its great, ***1/2 on last watch. Heyman is at ringside (with Mark), and he's awesome too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MARK is a Paul Heyman Guy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So many think Rock is better b/c of SALES. The mind of the average wrestling fan is warped beyond repair. I know where Undertaker stands. I'm cool.

Oh, I think I should go watch some MARK vs MARK action. Undertaker vs Henry of course.

The only WCW matches I can recall seeing, or saw for the nature of this sentence, was the tag from WrestleWar '90. No doubt seem a "Mean" Mark Callous match or two, but nothing is ringing any bells. Sounds like a fun project IF I were to find a good bit of his WCW tenure.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Seeing as everyone was talking about WrestleMania 20, my ratings:

Christian/Jericho - ****
Eddie/Angle - ***1/2
Evolution/Rock and Sock ***3/4
Benoit/Triple H/HBK - *****



HayleySabin said:


> Benoit is Benoit. He always brought it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, I remember really enjoying this match at the time. Was watching with my brother and we were surprised at the amount of offense Festus was getting in, was probably the first match where Festus showed to me that he was a good big man worker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly there isn't anything worth going out of your way to see during his WCW run aside from the Luger match.

He has some fun stuff back in CWA, nothing I would call good, but enjoyable for Undertaker fans. Match with Lawler, match with Steve Austin...

DID YOU KNOW? The partner for Mean Mark at that WW tag with the Road Warriors was in fact Blake Beverly, as Dan Spivey had left the company before the PPV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

UGH, Taker-Austin.

I love me some Judgment Day 2001 but I'm pretty MEH on the rest of their matches including the extremely shitty Summerslam 1998 main event that everybody seems to like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Ah, I remember really enjoying this match at the time. Was watching with my brother and we were surprised at the amount of offense Festus was getting in, was probably the first match where Festus showed to me that he was a good big man worker.


Considering I didn't know where to find any OVW/DSW or whatever the developmental territory was, that match opened the eyes to me of what Fetus could do. He had a few tags that he finally got to do something in, but the majority at the time were all squashes.



Big Z said:


> Honestly there isn't anything worth going out of your way to see during his WCW run aside from the Luger match.
> 
> He has some fun stuff back in CWA, nothing I would call good, but enjoyable for Undertaker fans. Match with Lawler, match with Steve Austin...
> 
> DID YOU KNOW? The partner for Mean Mark at that WW tag with the Road Warriors was in fact Blake Beverly, as Dan Spivey had left the company before the PPV.


I wouldn't mind seeing the bulk of the run for the fun of it. See the evolution of his work and all that good stuff.

Was Austin actually "Austin" or was he a babyface? iirc Austin's first ever match was vs The Punisher in USWA. Unless I I'm a hair off with my facts. Crazy how that works out.

Mike Enos? Get right out of town. I never knew this. :hmm:

EDIT ~ Summerslam '98 isn't bad. Austin got knocked out during it though so it wasn't going to be very special following it. A Cold Day in Hell was good from my memory. Better than the matches vs Bret Hart in the same year. Now despite how much I worship Taker, I can't get into those matches at all. I say that all the time though so...broken record.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Austin really have up and down chemistry. First Blood is good (though sometimes overrated), the Raw match where Austin wins back the title (a few weeks after OTE?) is a hugely underrated and often forgotten match that I think is one of their best together, JD 01 is awesome, and I'm one of like 3 people who enjoy their BL 02 match .

The rest really aren't good at all imo.

Edit: That's the Taker/Austin match I was on about Cody. USWA, not CWA, oops . That was Austin's first ever match? Pretty cool. Undertaker's first match against Brody is interesting to see, especially since PERCY PRINGLE is his manager!


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Only thing I remember about the Festus guy is when he had a match with Sylvester Terkay in IGF and it was such a horrible piece of shit that Antonio Inoki himself came down to the ring and told them both to fuck off.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not a fan of any of the Taker-Bret matches ?

Man those matches just DO IT for me, TBH. The Rumble match is pretty IDEK but the Summerslam match was awesome and I feel that their ONO match is an all time classic encounter and if it had a finish it would be closer to five stars than most matches could ever possibly dream of being. Bret-Taker don't have that TAKER-HBK type chemistry, but I'd be damned if Bret wasn't one of Taker's absolute best opponents pound for pound honestly.

WAIT..... Taker did this all in a row ? :

vs Bret @ Summerslam
vs Bret @ ONO
vs Shawn @ GZ
vs SHAWN @ BB 87

GOAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Taker/Austin really have up and down chemistry. First Blood is good (though sometimes overrated), the Raw match where Austin wins back the title (a few weeks after OTE?) is a hugely underrated and often forgotten match that I think is one of their best together, JD 01 is awesome, and I'm one of like 3 people who enjoy their BL 02 match .
> 
> The rest really aren't good at all imo.
> 
> Edit: That's the Taker/Austin match I was on about Cody. USWA, not CWA, oops . That was Austin's first ever match? Pretty cool. Undertaker's first match against Brody is interesting to see, especially since PERCY PRINGLE is his manager!


Austin beat Taker for the championship the night after KOTR '99. Maybe I'll go scope out that match atm. Why isn't that on a set? I don't think I've ever seen Taker vs Austin from Backlash '02. The only one to escape me. I might be the only guy who liked the Buried Alive match. Finish was totally botched though.

Yeah, it was billed as Austin's first match so I took it for what it's worth. He was Steve Williams, had the original look, and it was in the timeframe so I'm more than certain it is legit. PERCY PRINGLE his manager? What is this futuristic booking going on in the 80's?!

@KOK - yep, Undertaker vs Bret matches bore me. Only the '97 ones I am speaking of. I ranted on them months ago. I'd find the post if I could. Boring leg work that goes absolutely nowhere and the matches drag on for far too long. Don't get me started on Summerslam '97 though. Never was a fan of how that played out. Undertaker being robbed ruined my summer.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK knocking the fuck out of Taker with a chair boosts my rating immensely.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GTFO


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of Bret/Undertaker at SS...

At that time, Bret was feuding with Undertaker.
Undertaker had an angle going with Paul Bearer and Kane.
Shawn Michaels had an angle going with Bret.
Bret was feuding with "America".
And of course the finish lead to HBK and Undertaker having a feud. While Bret was still feuding with HBK, and Kane/Paul Bearer were still involved with Undertaker (all this without even seeing Kane).

ALL AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME. And it made sense. And was logical. And not a mess in any way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what we like to call a well thought out main event picture.

It has happened before. It isn't a myth.

Oh, and FUCK everything b/c I can't find Undertaker vs Finlay right now. fuckfuckfuck


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> The systematic assault on Benoit's ribs/midsection in the Vengeance match rules. I mark out for the use of the release front suplex to bash up Benoit.


Indeed. A proper finishing stretch instead of the Eugene shit and it would've been 4 stars easy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> That's what we like to call a well thought out main event picture.
> 
> It has happened before. It isn't a myth.
> 
> Oh, and FUCK everything b/c I can't find Undertaker vs Finlay right now. fuckfuckfuck


I can get that match uploaded for ya if you can't find it .



> The next tape library that WWE is looking to acquire is the UK "World of Sport" library, which is owned by ITV. Several matches from the World of Sport library will be featured on Bret Hart's upcoming "Dungeon Collection" DVD set, due out March 5th.


Interestings.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Indeed. A proper finishing stretch instead of the Eugene shit and it would've been 4 stars easy.


My thought process. I don't even mind the Eugene stuff considering it worked at the time. (meaning crowd bought into it) It did put a certain hinder on the match nonetheless. ***3/4. Damn good match.



Big Z said:


> I can get that match uploaded for ya if you can't find it .
> 
> 
> 
> Interestings.


Please. 

World of Sport? Nice. Getting to educate fans on that stuff will own. Get some Johnny Saint all up in the WWE Hall of Fame. That could be the process here.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Pah, if you bastards read my thread you'd know I've been trying to push WOS for months now. Course I got side tracked and when I watch a couple of matches tonight and update the thread it'll have been the first post in 2 months  .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I should watch WOS. I can't remember which channel it is, but I often see it on for like 6 hours at a time during the day .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm working on a top 25-50 by the time I'm done. I can suggest to you some of the better accessible matches for people new to the style. Marty Jones for example works a more Regal and Finlay style in blending quick chain wrestling with stiff strikes, whereas the 'traditional' style is pure grappling and matwork. Marty Jones got an incredible match out of Dynamite Kid, so that alone documents his ability. Though I should confess DK was shockingly great in it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Pah, if you bastards read my thread you'd know I've been trying to push WOS for months now. Course I got side tracked and when I watch a couple of matches tonight and update the thread it'll have been the first post in 2 months  .


I'm new over there. I never knew of this.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I posted it at t'other place but I did start it first in the Classic Wrestling Section. It got to 5 pages before I got side-tracked and forgot to return to it. Covered a few gems already though that should give people an acquired taste of the diverse style WOS offers.

People unfamiliar will be best off starting with the Marty Jones trilogy against Dynamite Kid, Finlay & Steve Wright respectively. All great matches and definitely a progression from the classic WOS style which might be easier for newer folk to digest and appreciate.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...restling-1970s-1980s-appreciation-thread.html


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yep, I went to Summerslam '97. I was just a 14 year old mark at the time, a few months before I got the internet. I remember being so pumped going to SummerSlam that year. The US/Canada storyline was excellent programming and so different from what we had been used to in the past. I also remember being disappointed in the main event match. For a large stretch of the match, what had been a hot crowd throughout the event, was very quiet. You could hear a pin drop during that Hart/Taker match. However, the buzz that was present right after the chair shot was spectacular. I'll never forget the sound of the steel chair striking 'Taker's head so violently and the gasp from the crowd immediately after. Not to mention, Shawn's reaction of just standing there before he had to make the 3 count of "Shit, what did I just do." Just great stuff.

I also remember thinking Kane would debut at Summerslam and cost 'Taker the belt. Paul Bearer had been hyping up Kane since June. So, it being August and the end of summer PPV, I thought for sure Kane would debut and cost 'Taker the belt. As others have pointed out, all of the main event storylines tying into one another was great, too. Also went to SummerSlam '98 with it being in NYC, that was a fun event in it's own right, as well.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Honestly there isn't anything worth going out of your way to see during his WCW run aside from the Luger match.


I remember a match between Taker and Brian billman from WCW and it was a really good match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The first HIAC, now that's one match I'd like to watch live when they invent time machine.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Speaking of Bret/Undertaker at SS...
> 
> At that time, Bret was feuding with Undertaker.
> Undertaker had an angle going with Paul Bearer and Kane.
> ...


1997 in general was a great year for WWE (don't watch WCW). 

Wrestlemania was shitty, but we still got a classic in Bret/Austin. Throughout the year Bret was feuding with "America", like you said, which lead to the fantastic 10 man tag in Calgary. The summer was good too because it was time to finally start tying in these major storylines together into one match (Bret/Taker). Austin suffered the infamous neck injury and stunned McMahon for the first time. HBK/Taker HIAC, screwjob, DX at its peak, etc. Need I say more?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really need to watch some more of Taker's AE matches against Bret, HBK, Austin and others. Already saw the original HIAC a month or two ago but not much else.

And speaking of Bret's feud with "America" and HBK, who was the heel and face there? HBK was as despicable at that time so I can't imagine him being a face.



KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I LOVE the Benoit/Game Ironman but it's like they started in first gear, then moved to second halfways through, then they just said FUCKIT' and stayed at that pace for the rest of the match. That match could have been a top 5 MOTY if they Eugene shit and had a really solid final 20 minutes.
> 
> Benoit and GAME always work well though, just another one of Benoit's great rivalries. I'd be lying if I said Benoit wasn't literally like 80 percent of what made the MANIA triple threat so amazing, he just brought it that night.


I find that match to be heavily underrated. Some probably don't even know it exists while Angle/BORK is a lot more famous (and better too) for a TV ironman match. Was completely awesome other than Eugene's worthless interference. I was hella surprised that Hunter tapped twice, though. And then he did that _again_ at the Gold Rush Tournament.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flair/Perfect - Raw 1993 (loser leaves town match)

Always loved this match, havnt watched it years, always remembered it from when I was a kid, Perfect was great in this, do wwe have the option to include the full matches on DVDs with the inevitable Raw commercial break?

Its a damn important match ffs.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Benoit/HHH, been a long time since I've seen it, but my rating for it is ***1/2 (highest match at that rating). It's a great TV match, but for an Ironman match it wasn't that great and it did drag quite a bit imo. Then again, all Ironman matches drag for me to some degree except Angle/Lesnar, which is the best one. Even Rock/HHH which I hold in high regard, I knocked it down a notch when I re-watched it a year or so ago. Has more to do with me and normally not liking to sit through one-on-one matches for that long, but about mid-way through I remember wondering "how long has this match been so far?" and looking at how much time had passed on the video. As it got closer and closer to the end though from that point, it got more and more exciting, mainly because I love Taker's return at the end of it, and by the end I was loving the match again.

Ironman matches
1) Lesnar vs. Angle SD 03 (****3/4)
2) Rock vs. HHH JD 00 (****1/4)
3) HBK vs. Hart WM12 (****)
4) Benoit vs. HHH Raw 04 (***1/2)
5) Orton vs. Cena BR 09 (***)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I really need to watch some more of Taker's AE matches against Bret, HBK, Austin and others. Already saw the original HIAC a month or two ago but not much else.
> 
> And speaking of Bret's feud with "America" and HBK, who was the heel and face there? HBK was as despicable at that time so I can't imagine him being a face.
> 
> ...


HBK was a face/tweener from Jan '97 to August 97 (SummerSlam, chairshot to Taker). HBK, Austin, Taker and others were faces in America, but heels in Canada. Same with the Harts, but vice versa. Go watch when HBK superkicked Bret while he was in his wheelchair in the Summer of '97 in America, that got a huge pop from the crowd. HBK didn't really step up his DX like antics up until the Fall of '97.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I find that match to be heavily underrated. Some probably don't even know it exists while Angle/BORK is a lot more famous (and better too) for a TV ironman match. Was completely awesome other than Eugene's worthless interference. I was hella surprised that Hunter tapped twice, though. And then he did that _again_ at the Gold Rush Tournament.


Benoit is definitely one guy The Game never had a problem putting over. Not sure if Trips ever beat him clean.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think Trips, Shawn, Orton, and many others had MUCH respect for Benoit. Some probably still do for the man & performer they remember.


Seeing that Brock/Rock thread got me to thinking about my favorite Lesnar matches.

Top 10 Brock Lesnar Matches:

Undertaker No Mercy 02
John Cena Extreme Rules 12
Kurt Angle Iron Man SD 03 
Eddie Guererro No Way Out 04
The Rock SummerSlam 02
Kurt Angle WrestleMania XIX
Chris Benoit SD 03 
Kurt Angle SummerSlam 03 
Big Show Judgment Day 03 
Triple H SummerSlam 12

What am I missing?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BORK is so damn consistent. I'm going to try a top 10 myself.

vs Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out 04
vs John Cena - Extreme Rules 12
vs Undertaker - No Mercy 02
vs The Rock - SummerSlam 02
vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown 03
vs Kurt Angle (Ironman) - Smackdown 03
vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam 03
vs Big Show - Judgment Day 03
vs Kurt Angle vs Big Show - Vengeance 03
vs Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania XIX



ShowStopper '97 said:


> HBK was a face/tweener from Jan '97 to August 97 (SummerSlam, chairshot to Taker). HBK, Austin, Taker and others were faces in America, but heels in Canada. Same with the Harts, but vice versa. Go watch when HBK superkicked Bret while he was in his wheelchair in the Summer of '97 in America, that got a huge pop from the crowd. HBK didn't really step up his DX like antics up until the Fall of '97.


I thought so. The storyline was just so well done.



Saint Dick said:


> Benoit is definitely one guy The Game never had a problem putting over. Not sure if Trips ever beat him clean.


Unless he beat him clean on Smackdown in 2000, then no. At No Mercy, Stephanie interfered and on Raw 05, he used a lowblow behind ref's back.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Benoit was probably second only to Undertaker when it came to how much respect his peers had for him. Which would have made a big time match/feud between them even better .

Top 10 Lesnar (no order):

Vs Undertaker HIAC
Vs Cena ER
Vs HHH SS
Vs Guerrero NWO
Vs Angle SS
Vs Angle Iron Man
Vs Rock SS (Lesnar had a pretty awesome SS record for matches)
Vs Undertaker UF
Vs Benoit SD
Vs Angle WM

Only one of those matches (Benoit) drops below **** (***3/4) for me. Pretty great for a guy who was only around for 2 years + 2 matches.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I need to re-watch Brock/Taker Unforgiven 02. It's often overlooked because of the finish and because Hell In A Cell is such an epic and memorable war. I liked the Biker Chain wit hTaker at NM03 and the Vengeance 03 triple threat with Angle & Show as well.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Brock:

(****3/4)
1) vs. Taker NM 02
2) vs. Angle SD 03 Ironman Match
(****1/2)
3) vs. Eddie Guerrero NWO 04
4) vs. Angle SS 03
(****1/4)
5) vs. Cena ER 12
6) vs. Rock SS 02
7) vs. Angle WM19
8) vs. Benoit SD 2003
(****)
9) vs. Big Show JD 03
10) vs. Taker Unforgiven 2002

Bork's a beast. All that in such a short career.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I need to re-watch Brock/Taker Unforgiven 02. It's often overlooked because of the finish and because Hell In A Cell is such an epic and memorable war. I liked the Biker Chain wit hTaker at NM03 and the Vengeance 03 triple threat with Angle & Show as well.


Yeah I was about to mention the triple threat, a favorite of mine, its not just Brock's great matches that stand out for me, its the whole deal, even the squash matches, the short matches, various Smackdown segments, he could arrive and take a shit in the ring (no, not the Goldberg match lol) and it be fun to bloody watch,

For someone who 'only' had two years run, what a fucking two years, and with his return he is obviously more of a damn badass due to his UFC background,

Oh and personally I think the whole Taker series was great, just wished they could have had a match when Taker returned as the deadman...


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I hear what you're saying zep. Brock also had a couple of Smackdown TV gems with Mysterio in 02 and 03. The guy's natural ability is such a special gift and his presence is almost unmatched in WWE history.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Undertaker/Brock @ Unforgiven is a good match but I can't stand how it starts. They go threw a whole weird feeling out process when the fued between them was a heated one at that point. Just beat the crap out of each other already. I like what they do a lot more in that No Mercy HIAC match.

Also, I think most people here picked out what I would go for in my fav Brock top ten. Though there are Brock matches that I probably wouldn't put it in but would be close like vs. Rey Mysterio from Dec. 2003 Smackdown and vs. Ric Flair from July 2002 Raw (this match is a blast to watch).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> I think Trips, Shawn, Orton, and many others had MUCH respect for Benoit. Some probably still do for the man & performer they remember.


Most wrestlers I've heard speaking on the subject (the relevant ones anyways) have pretty much stated that they still respect Benoit. I brought up Orton a few pages back last night, HHH bluntly said he still stands by his comments from the tribute show, Shawn brought back the Crossface for use, Flair name dropped him on the HOF speech of his, Batista has constantly praised him and I can go on, RVD said he couldn't comprehend what happened and The Rock said pretty much the same thing. Jericho has been the most in-depth in his thoughts, though. I read that chapter of his second book a while back and he had some interesting stories. Made me laugh when he kept talking about how Benoit never returned his calls and the last time they were supposed to meet each other in Canada, it didn't happen because of that.



Big Z said:


> Benoit was probably second only to Undertaker when it came to how much respect his peers had for him. Which would have made a big time match/feud between them even better .


One thing I'm curious about until Taker finally drops his character is his backstage relationship with Benoit and thoughts on the tragedy. It's a shame they never worked with each other any further after that brief feud in 2000.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd love a good hour of Taker discussing many things throughout his character and thoughts on many of wrestling's greatest/tragic/interesting moments (one main curiosity for me being his take on what happened with Punk in 09). There's his DVD and a few interviews from 2000-2003, but even then that was 10 years. I would even pay to see it (at a reasonable price  )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

An hour? Fuck that, Undertaker needs to do an 8 hour shoot like Flair did .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

8 HOURS!?

:epicdrool:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would hang on to every word of that 8 hour shoot. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching MANIA XXI now, anybody wanna throw out their STARZ!* (fuck this opener BTW) ?

Top 15 BROCK-DA-GAWD Matches (in no order)

vs Hulk Hogan @ SD 02
vs Rock @ Summerslam 2002
vs Undertaker @ Unforgiven 2002
vs Undertaker (HIAC) @ No Mercy 2002
vs Kurt Angle @ WM XIX
vs John Cena @ Backlash 2003
vs Big Show @ JD 2003
vs Kurt Angle vs Big Show @ Vengeance 2003
vs Kurt Angle @ Summerslam 2003
vs Kurt Angle (Ironman) @ SD 2003
vs Rey Mysterio @ SD 2003
vs Chris Benoit @ SD 2003
vs Eddie Guerrero @ No Way Out 2004
vs John Cena @ Extreme Rules 2012
vs Triple H @ Summerslam 2012

I'm like... 99 percent sure that BROCK will tear down the house at Wrestlemania no matter if he's working with Taker, GAME, Punk, ROCK (yes, he'll tear the house down even wrestling against ROCK, he's THAT good) or whoever. As a matter of fact, if both BROCK and Taker's Mania matches don't end up in my top five at the end of the year then I'll legitimately be shocked. Hell, if BROCK wrestles 4 matches this year I'd expect all 4 to make a top 10-15 list, he's THAT good. If Brock-Taker happens this year (sadly it won't  ) then I'd expect no less than a ***** 1/2* contest, no joke.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WrestleMania 21

Rey/Eddie - **
MITB - **** 1/2
Orton/Taker - **** 1/4
Trish/Christie - DUD
Angle/Michaels - **** 3/4
Sumo Match - DUD
JBL/Cena - DUD
HHH/Batista - ** 1/4

(Y) to Hogan saving Eugene from Hassan/Davari and Austin/Carlito in Piper's Pit. 

EDIT - HHH/JBL backstage segment was good too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM21

Rey/Eddie - ***
MITB - ****1/4
Orton/Taker - ****1/4
Trish/Christie - DUD
Angle/Michaels - ****1/2
Sumo Match - DUD
JBL/Cena - 1/4*
HHH/Batista - **


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania XXI had some pretty huge mark THE FUCK out moments that I'm reliving now. I remember going crazy @ the Hogan segment , and especially losing it when Orton counters the chokeslam into the RKO. One of the two times I actually thought nearly 100 percent that the streak was over and done with, the other being the Batista Bomb @ Wrestleania XXIII. Those counters were something else in the Orton match though holy shit.

I still have to watch the SUMO match, JBL-Cena, and Trish-Hemme ? UGH.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That show is definitely what you would call a mixed bag. Some great matches, mark out moments, and those funny film spoof vignettes they aired throughout the RTWM and on the PPV, but there was also so many matches that just fell flat on their ass.

HHH's entrance with Motorhead playing live and Undertaker's entrance gliding to the ring were both cool to watch as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I :lol 'ed so fucking hard at the fact that Triple H comes out first ascending to the stage with Motorhead playing him to the ring in what was an EPIC fucking entrance for the world champion, and then Batista comes out to his old jobber music with a regular entrance with no pyro or anything, talk about a guy surviving a recipe for disaster .

UGH Taker vs Orton is skipping so I have to get one of the other like THREE DVDs I have it on and pop it in before I continue with the rest of the show FML.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM21

Rey/Eddie - *
MITB - ****1/2
Orton/Taker - ****1/4
Trish/Christie - DUD
Angle/Michaels - ****1/4
Sumo Match - DUD
JBL/Cena - DUD
HHH/Batista - **3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> WrestleMania 21
> 
> Rey/Eddie - **
> MITB - **** 1/2
> ...


Almost perfect assessment. Realize Michaels/Angle is crap too and we're square. :



WOOLCOCK said:


> I posted it at t'other place but I did start it first in the Classic Wrestling Section. It got to 5 pages before I got side-tracked and forgot to return to it. Covered a few gems already though that should give people an acquired taste of the diverse style WOS offers.
> 
> People unfamiliar will be best off starting with the Marty Jones trilogy against Dynamite Kid, Finlay & Steve Wright respectively. All great matches and definitely a progression from the classic WOS style which might be easier for newer folk to digest and appreciate.
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...restling-1970s-1980s-appreciation-thread.html


This owns.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Clique said:


> WrestleMania 21
> 
> Rey/Eddie - **
> MITB - **** 1/2
> ...



Hell yes. Very similar ratings here.


WM 21

Eddie/Rey- **
MITB- ****1/2
Orton/Taker- ****
Trish/Christie- Dud
HBK/Angle- ****1/2 (Match of the Night, obviously. Haters gonna hate  )
Sumo Match- Dud
JBL/Cena- Dud
Triple H/Bautista- **3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Really Cody ? Your thoughts on HBK/Angle ?

I swear I've gone as low as ***** and as high as ***** 3/4* on that damn match, I find it SO fucking hard to rate for some reason. I guess I'll get a fresh look soon enough (in like, 5 minutes )


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kind of a mess of a match. They jump from point A to point B in a fashion that throws me off. Lets have our feeling out process with our signature style. Ok. Then Angle destroys Michaels back _(Really the back of the leg, but kayfabe people. kayfabe.)_ and then hits some suplexes damaging it. Angle gets elbowed in the face. Eventually knee'd too from a top rop crossbody to the outside. Michaels doesn't seem to mind a "hurt" back or something, idk. It sucks by this point. Michaels does his crossbody on the table. They're corpses for about 5 minutes. Go back in the ring and all of a sudden it's supposed to be the most epic thing ever. Finishers are hit. Ankle Lock and after forever in a day, Michaels submits. Wrong guy goes over and the match was nothing special.

**

Vengeance rapes it. So god damn much it's silly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Kind of a mess of a match. They jump from point A to point B in a fashion that throws me off. Lets have our feeling out process with our signature style. Ok. Then Angle destroys Michaels back _(Really the back of the leg, but kayfabe people. kayfabe.)_ and then hits some suplexes damaging it. Angle gets elbowed in the face. Eventually knee'd too from a top rop crossbody to the outside. Michaels doesn't seem to mind a "hurt" back or something, idk. It sucks by this point. Michaels does his crossbody on the table. They're corpses for about 5 minutes. Go back in the ring and all of a sudden it's supposed to be the most epic thing ever. Finishers are hit. Ankle Lock and after forever in a day, Michaels submits. Wrong guy goes over and the match was nothing special.
> 
> **
> 
> Vengeance rapes it. So god damn much it's silly.


How strange. This isn't a post about Undertaker Vs Finlay.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought everybody hated the Vengeance match because of the retarded finish ? :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Blame the nyquil. It zapped away most hours of my day. Oh, and Japanese wrestling atm. That too.

8*D

EDIT ~ Nah. Kurt's crazy. Of course he'd go to the top rope after surviving one Sweet Chin Music. That's classic Angle logic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/HBK Vengeance is awesome. Finish is retarded but that's about it. I really like their WM match still. Held up tremendously for the WWF/E poll, which surprised me in all honesty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've settled. WM can go to hell and Vengeance can stay to keep me company.

That's how I like it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Weird, growing up I thought the Vengeance match was FAR superior to the Wrestlemania match and even had it as my MOTY at one point believe it or not. Then I kind of forgot it existed and haven't watched it in like god knows HOW long.

This is really fucking random but, I hate it when a Wrestlemania (or any PPV in general honestly) has a ton of filler. I like a nice card FULL of quality matches from top to bottom with MAYBE a "breather" match or two in between. Wrestlemania XX is like the ULTIMATE modern day filler PPV, as there are three AWZUM matches on the card but there's just so much filler that sometimes you get bored with the show. IT STILL ROCKS THOUGH. Take a card like Canadian Stampede, ALL quality matches. THAT'S MY SPEED.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The only matches I thought were filler for WrestleMania 20 was the evening gown & WWE Tag Team Championship. I mean, nobody cared about Victoria vs Molly except to see if the stip would occur, but it wasn't quite "filler" considering it had a few months of build behind it. I actually like an event that crams the roster on the show. Cram is a bad word, but WrestleMania's that feel like the original supercards hold a place in my heart. Give everyone a chance to do something on the big stage. I like it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree the finish in the rematch at Vengeance does boggle the mind a bit. They were going for something flashy ala HBK/Shelton but it logically didn't quite fit with where the match was at during those closing moments. It doesn't ruin the match for me but it's one of those things you live with in an otherwise great match. 

WM 21 > Vengeance but not by too much



HayleySabin said:


> Almost perfect assessment. Realize Michaels/Angle is crap too and we're square. :


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not going to say very much about the Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle match that I just witnessed @ Wrestlemania XXI. Not going to say if I thought It was good or bad, I'm just going to say two words that basically sum up the climax of the match for me.

CYBORG ANKLES.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> I agree the finish in the rematch at Vengeance does boggle the mind a bit. They were going for something flashy ala HBK/Shelton but it logically kind didn't quite fit with were the match was going during those closing moments. It doesn't ruin the match for me but it's one of those things you live with in an otherwise great match.
> 
> WM 21 > Vengeance but not by too much


unk3


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Y'all have Eddie/Rey from WM rated pretty low.

I bought Wrestlemania III the other day, not that I expect much from it but that it was $4. Also got Steamboat's DVD.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWF Championship
*Randy Savage (c) vs. The Ultimate Warrior _(Summerslam '92)

_Seriously, who the hell booked this match? I've read a lot of positive reviews and I tried to keep an open mind, but no. Before I get into the match, let me first say both guys combined for probably the worst looking ring attire in any WWF/E match I've ever seen.  Ugly ass bright pink with ruffles hangin everywhere and Warrior's weird body singlet, but anyway. The first 10-15 minutes are totally fine despite Warrior being pretty awful on all levels. He seemed to be wrestling like it was his first match; tons of basic slow offense where you can pretty much tell he's thinkin 'what should I do next?' Unfortunately after the decent work they put in (Savage's selling of the back was nice for a couple minutes), it basically comes off like they were stalling before Flair & Perfect came out, then it just goes to shit. So slow & plodding with some looooong 2 counts and far too much overbooking. I tried to get into it & maybe see the 'fun' factor but it just wasn't there. 25 minutes, 2 ref bumps, 2 chair shots, & constant interference for the fastest 10-count from a ref you'll ever see. Nowhere near their ania match. *** 3/4*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MoveMent said:


> Y'all have Eddie/Rey from WM rated pretty low.


I have it rated low due to some pacing issues they had throughout match which kind of took me out of it at moments. Rey was clearly occupied with his mask coming off which probably hindered some of his focus. I also thought it was a bit on the short side. And not short as in a great sprint but short as in "that's it?"

They have other great matches from that same year that were much better than the Mania match too. The 6/23/2005 Smackdown match is a classic and one of the Top 5 best WWE matches that year. Judgment Day was great as well. I love pacing for that match and the intensity both men brought. They really brought the hate in that encounter. GAB told a damn good story and I really liked the ladder match as well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't like either Angle/Michaels match at all, but I'd probably call them evenly not-good before Vengeance has that god-awful finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Smackdown 3/9/07*

The Undertaker vs Finlay ~ ****

So gritty. So different. So great. Undertaker's expression after he catches Finlay in the air is probably my personal favorite that I've ever seen. Put the selling of the ribs in the best over the top fashion possible. Making you believe Finlay was pulverizing that one specific area throughout the match. Love love love it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*WrestleMania 22: Mick Foley vs. Edge*
Pure awesome brutality. You know the glamour, the charm, the purity that we're used to see at WrestleMania? This threw all of that to trash. It was the unneccesary but very succesful Part 2 in making Edge a bonafide Main Eventer, for which Foley continued to prove he could put over like nobody else could. You had already seen a lot of brutal matches through WM history (i.e. TLC, Money In The Bank, Bret vs. Austin, etc.), but none had quite taken it as far as this did - thumbtacks, barbed wire, lighter fluid, crimson masked faces, and of course, flaming tables. All supported by a rabid Chicago crowd and great storytelling. The match itself, while awesome in its own right, you can call it essentially an original ECW match, or an inferior version of HHH vs. Foley or Orton vs. Foley. But, considering it's a "step cousin" of those matches, it was still worth watching. And since you never really had that kind of brutality at a WrestleMania ring, it kind-of marked a 1st time ever. Though the match was barely 15 minutes, and the outcome was predictable, but between Money In The Bank and this match with Mick Foley, you can definitely see what made Edge into the multiple time World Champion we now know him as. Oh, and this definitely was the defining WrestleMania moment for Mrs. Foley's baby boy. *****1/2*


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

ATF said:


> *WrestleMania 22: Mick Foley vs. Edge*
> Pure awesome brutality. You know the glamour, the charm, the purity that we're used to see at WrestleMania? This threw all of that to trash. It was the unneccesary but very succesful Part 2 in making Edge a bonafide Main Eventer, for which Foley continued to prove he could put over like nobody else could. You had already seen a lot of brutal matches through WM history (i.e. TLC, Money In The Bank, Bret vs. Austin, etc.), but none had quite taken it as far as this did - thumbtacks, barbed wire, lighter fluid, crimson masked faces, and of course, flaming tables. All supported by a rabid Chicago crowd and great storytelling. The match itself, while awesome in its own right, you can call it essentially an original ECW match, or an inferior version of HHH vs. Foley or Orton vs. Foley. But, considering it's a "step cousin" of those matches, it was still worth watching. And since you never really had that kind of brutality at a WrestleMania ring, it kind-of marked a 1st time ever. Though the match was barely 15 minutes, and the outcome was predictable, but between Money In The Bank and this match with Mick Foley, you can definitely see what made Edge into the multiple time World Champion we now know him as. Oh, and this definitely was the defining WrestleMania moment for Mrs. Foley's baby boy. *****1/2*


Love this match think Id go around the ****1/2 mark as well. 2 guys going out just wanting to steal the show with an amazing crowd behind them. The barbwire wrapped round Foley spot was awesome aswell and Litas involvement was perfect. Great match and Id say the best match Foleys had since his first retirement in 2000


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Top 10 Edge's matches?

10. Edge vs Mick Foley- WM 22
9. Edge vs Ric Flair- TLC match RAW 2006
8. Edge vs Randy Orton- Vengeance 2004
7. Edge vs Matt Hardy- Unforgiven 2005
6. Edge vs HBK- RAW February 2005
5. Edge vs Undertaker- WM 24
4. Edge&Christian vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudleys- WM X-Seven
3. Edge vs Eddi Guerrero- SmackDown 2002
2. Edge&Rey Mysterio vs Chris Benoit& Kurt Angle- No Mercy 2002
1. Edge vs CEna- Unforgiven 2006


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably the Steel Cage vs Matt Hardy. If not Hell in a Cell vs Undertaker.

TLC from Unforgiven 2006 is bleh.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't think I could do a top 10 Edge singles-non gimmick match list, simply because there isn't 10 worthy of being put on their.

vs. Taker at Wrestlemania
vs. Orton at Vengeance 2004
didn't he have a decent match against Eddie in 2002?
vs. Del Rio was okay I guess

I find him so overrated it's not even funny.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit, can't decide on which tagged classic to get for free in the buy 2 get 1 free offer atm. Picking up WM 7&8 and WM 13&14 to complete my WM collection... now I haven't a clue what else to get. IYH 14&15 has some stuff I'm interested in, KOTY&Inavsion 2001 I like... after that I'm not sure. Already got the likes of IYH 13&16, BACKLASH 2000... so yeah, fuck knows.

EDIT: went with Survivor Series 1987 & 1988


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Get KOTR & Invasion. The former has the most brutal main events pumped out by WWF and the other might be the easiest to watch PPV ever.

If I wasn't fussed with being lazy atm I'd look up which IYH you were talking about and post my two cents on them. I usually list them by PPV name instead of number so yeah...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Too late, bought something else instead . I've got Invasion as an ISO file on my PC so that'll do me for now. Only thing I was really interested in on KOTR was the street fight, and well, I'm pretty sure I have that on some comp around here. Same with the IYH matches (Revenge of the Taker being one of them ).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I probably would have nabbed Revenge of the Taker just to own the lost Austin vs Bret match.

IMO I liked the triple threat from KOTR '01 more than the Street Fight. Match is so unintentionally gnarly. About every bump that could turn out to be brutal went that way. No wonder Benoit left it with a broken neck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd go *** at absolute max for that triple threat. I remember it being fairly boring in quite a lot of parts. Benoit's neck finally giving out certainly didn't help. Also never knew that Austin got injured in the match too (When Booker put him through the table. That's why he started doing all the comedy shit backstage with Kurt lol).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He got injured? Not surprised. That was one of the spots I was specifically referencing too. He took that spot in such a vicious fashion.

****1/2 for me. Only seen it twice. I think I'll keep it in that high of regard. Was into every portion.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Placed this order with SilverVision last night.

In Your House 13 & 16
No Way Out 2000 & Backlash 2000 
Judgment Day 2000 & Fully Loaded 2000
Armageddon 2000 & No Way Out 2001


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Edge

(****3/4)
1) vs. Taker SS 2008
(****1/4)
2) vs Cena BL 2009
3) vs. Taker WM24
4) vs. Matt Hardy Unforgiven 2005
5) vs. HBK vs. Cena vs. Orton BL 2007
6) MITB WM21
7) NYR 05 EC
8) vs. Orton Raw after BL 2007
9) vs. Foley WM22
10) WHC Chamber NWO 2009

Didn't realize how many Edge matches I had at ****1/4, though in 3-4 of the matches, he wasn't involved as much in it being that high of a rating as someone else (like Benoit at WM21, and Rey in the NWO 2009 WHC Chamber).


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I haven't watched the KOTR 01 triple threat in years, but I remember it being pretty solid. You could tell everyone involved was beaten badly and injured. Still doesn't beat the Angle/Shane street fight though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I don't think I could do a top 10 Edge singles-non gimmick match list, simply because there isn't 10 worthy of being put on their.
> 
> vs. Taker at Wrestlemania
> vs. Orton at Vengeance 2004
> ...


Let me try:

Edge/Angle Backlash 02
Edge/Angle JD 02
Edge/Angle SD 10/03/02
Edge/Orton Vengeance 04
Edge/Orton Raw July 04
Edge/Benoit Raw 04/03/05
Edge/RVD Vengeance 06
Edge/Orton Raw 4/30/07
Edge/Benoit SD 06/07/07 
Edge/Undertaker WM 24
Edge/Undertaker Backlash 08
Edge/Batista NOC 08

(I know I threw some extras in there)

Gimmicks and multi-man matches are for sure his specialty and that's fine too. That's what he was best at and he did it well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OHHHHH I'm at one of my favorite cards up and down that I have ever seen ; Wrestlemania XXII. Anybody wanna throw out some *STARZ?!*. 

I wonder if *Clique* was here. I also wonder why Cody doesn't like GAME-Sheena .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RestulMainea 22:

Show/Kane Vs Carlito/Masters - **
MITB - *** 
JBL Vs Benoit - ***1/4
Edge Vs Foley - ****1/4
Boogeywoogey man Vs Booker T - DUD
Trish Vs Mickie - ***1/4
Undertaker Vs Henry - **1/2
HBK Vs Vince - ***
Orton Vs Mysterio Vs Angle - **
Torrie Vs Candice - DUD
HHH Vs Cena - ****


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Wrestlemania 22:

Show&Kane/Masters&Carlito: **
MITB II: ***1/2
JBL/Benoit: **1/2
Edge/FOley: ****1/4
Boogeyman/Bookah: DUD
Mickie/Trish: ***1/2
Taker/HENRY: *1/2
HBK/Vinny: **3/4
Mysterio/Angle/RKO: **
Cena/Hunter: ****1/4

Really strong show. Triple Threat should have been so much more. I LOVE the main event just because of the clash of styles and the crowd. Women's match is amazing bar the botch, greatest storyline for a women's match ever :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There is no botch if you bought the DVD 8*D. Also no LESBIAN stuff either . So glad I kept my original DVD recording of the event .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I have an original PPV download so all is good :

Also watched their 2006 feud, it was so good. When they put effort into women's matches. I miss Victoria/Trish/Mickie


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Didn't Vince REALLY give Mickie some shit over that Lesbian crotch grab thing ? Vince hates lesbians apparently :lol .

For some reason disc one of my Mania XXII DVD is missing/in another DVD case, and I REALLY don't feel like looking for it so it looks like I have to stream a few matches before watching a few on other DVDs, I fucking hate doing that .

I go back on forth on the NYR and WM XXII Trish/Mickie matches because they're both so fucking awesome. Then you had Trish RETIRING and the division started basically going to hell then with Lita following and yeah...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love their NYR match, used to be my fav of the two, but WM got better on a rewatch .

Lol, you don't seem to have much luck with these WM discs, every so often you keep posting how a disc is missing or not working or something .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Their backlash match was going so well until Trish fucked her arm up. It's a shame.

Backlash 2006 ratings

Carlito/Masters: **
Umaga/Flair: *
Trish/Mickie: N/A
RVD/Benjamin: ***1/2
Big Show/Kane: :lol
Vinny & Shane/HBK & GAWD: **1/2 and :lmao
Cena/Edge/Hunter: ****1/4

I loved this PPV but it didn't live up to the hype this time. Main event is AWESOME. HBK match is odd and hilarious at the same time. Fuck Spirit Squad and Ziggles when he was a young'un.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Can't remember that Shelton/RVD match from Backlash at all, may have to check it out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO MY MANIA XXII DISC. I remember being such a fucking mark that I waited for Wal-Mart to open at 8 in the morning so that I could go home and watch Wrestlemania XXII and DA EXTRAS for the rest of the day. I DID THAT, but eventually I moved for a year and disc one got lost in the move somehow and I forgot to replace it.

The Wrestlemania XIV disc not being included in my anthology set is just fucking BULLSHIT. I bought it second hand for like 80 bucks because I didn't wanna buy it off Amazon for 300. Before I bought it I got to check the discs and stuff, and there was 20 discs there all in great condition so I was said "FUCKYEAHDEAL", but little did I know that Mania XXI was in the slot for Mania XIV. It's okay because I already owned everything worth owning from Mania XIV in the first place, Mania XXII not so much. 

When I buy the Summerslam anthology in April/May (probably the first three volumes, I own the last volume seperately and I don't need to own the same show twice) I'm just going to buy it off Second Spin for cheap as balls.

ALSO, when the eventual Triple H Biography is released I'm gonna nab an early copy of it (there's a WAL MART around here that has their WWE DVDs three weeks in advance, hence why I was able to grab the BROCK DVD so early, but I had to take a bus there and it wasn't fun).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I tried to get tickets to WM22 but they were all sold out in less than two minutes! 

It was a very entertaining show that I wish I could have been a part of. I hope they book Soldier Field next time they host WrestleMania in Chicago.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm 90 percent sure that sometime between Wrestlemania XXXI and XXXV that Chicago will host Wrestlemania in some capacity, since they get one every decade. Seems like the perfect scenario for PUNK to main event too, probably to the GOAT POP.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)*
Really good back and forth match with a nice pace to it. Similar in style to their Smackdown match but longer and better. They busted out some dope spots and sequences, notably Del Rio charging Ziggler only for Ziggler to toss him over the top rope causing him to land face first on the steel steps and a sweet inverted superplex from ADR. Their normal offense seemed to have a little extra something to it as well (Dolph's DDT stuck out to me as being BIG) due to the athleticism and bumping of both guys. Ricardo was great as the ringside cheerleader and had a good comedy moment with Big E. Lots to enjoy about this. So yeah, strong TV match. Might be my MOTY so far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm 90 percent sure that sometime between *Wrestlemania XXI and XXV* that Chicago will host Wrestlemania in some capacity, since they get one every decade. Seems like the perfect scenario for PUNK to main event too, probably to the GOAT POP.


 You got it!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I never said that .

Watching Orton vs Mysterio vs Angle now. Remember being so disappointed on my last rewatch.

EDIT : YEP. FUCK THAT MATCH. FUCK THAT MATCH TO HELL .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Updated MOTY list:

1. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
2. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
3. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)
4. Chris Jericho v Daniel Bryan - Raw (2/11/13)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I feel kind of dirty that I have a RYBACK match as my current MOTY. I mean it has PUNK in it, but RYBACK should be more than enough to cancel out the awesomeness. Punk sold that knee so fucking well IMO and it really boosts the match's rating in my eyes.

My current WOTY is Jericho simply because Punk's only PPV match was horrible.... Well THAT and the fact that Jericho has been fucking AWESOME.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I Purchased Summerslam 2002 recently so I more or less have all of the entire Ruthless Aggression era PPV's (I always say this era started when Brock won the belt for the first time, and ended around the time of Summerslam 2008). I think I'll probably attempt to watch all these PPV's over the summer and review them all. The last time I saw Summerslam 2002 I think I had the following ratings...

Rock/Brock - ****
HBK/HHH - ****
Angle/Mysterio - ****

And I am pretty sure everything else ranged from ***-****. I cant wait to see this PPV all over again as every match is worth watching! What are all your thoughts on the show?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

"Introducing first, weighing in at two hundred and sixty five pounds, HE IS THE CEREBRAL ASSASSIN, THE GAME, THE KING OF KINGS, THE TEN TIME CHAMPION, TRRRIIIIIPLLLEEEEEEEE H!"​
YEAH. Fuck it. After listening to Lillian's GOAT introduction of THE GAME @ Wrestlemania XXII I don't care if we get BROCK-GAME II. I just want GAME back with his fucking shovel, because the smirk he has on his face when the crowd is cheering him is just BOSS.

If you're a Triple H mark and that introduction coupled with the look on GAME's face during it doesn't give you chills, I don't know what will .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I feel kind of dirty that I have a RYBACK match as my current MOTY. I mean it has PUNK in it, but RYBACK should be more than enough to cancel out the awesomeness. Punk sold that knee so fucking well IMO and it really boosts the match's rating in my eyes.
> 
> My current WOTY is Jericho simply because Punk's only PPV match was horrible.... Well THAT and the fact that Jericho has been fucking AWESOME.


Not sure who I'd call WOTY so far. Punk, Jericho, Ziggler and Del Rio have basically been on the same level.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just finished *Del Rio/Ziggler* from Main Event. Started off a little slow but really enjoyed the top half of it. Loved Ziggler's control segment and Del Rio's failed comeback attempts. Great bumping from both guys, especially that reverse suplex from the top rope. Seriously, how often do you see that in WWE? The match itself really reminded of Edge/Ziggler from 2011, which isn't a bad thing at all. I kinda like Ricardo as a babyface manager. Really good stuff all around, just thought the finish was kinda rushed/not satisfying enough. **** 1/2*


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WOTY so far is Jericho by a mile.

Punk for TV matches but his Royal Rumble match was awful and i want it wiped from my memory. Hopefully the re-match is a bit more structured.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

This one here comes from another vid I found on YT (yeah, big surprise), which is based on choosing the best match from each TV show and PPV this guy has seen:



> Armageddon: Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero '02
> Backlash: Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley '04
> Bad Blood: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels '97
> Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday: Batista vs. The Undertaker '07
> ...


Interesting list to say the least. I agree with some choices, but there are more choices I disagree I think. I legit LOL'ed at Angle/HBK being #1 match at WM. There's also the funny absence of a Smackdown match in the video. Opinions are what they are, but whatever.

I'll do my own take on that list, adding some other shows myself:

Armageddon: 4-Way Ladder Match '06 (****3/4)
Backlash: Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley '04 (****3/4)
Bad Blood: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels '97 (*****)
Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday: Ric Flair vs. Triple H '05 (****1/4)
ECW: The Big Show vs. Ric Flair June '06 (***3/4)
Elimination Chamber: SD EC '11 (****1/2)
Extreme Rules/One Night Stand: Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena '12 (*****)
Hell In A Cell: Sheamus vs. The Big Show '12 (****1/4)
In Your House (not counting Backlash, BB, etc.): Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind Mind Games (****3/4)
Judgment Day: The Rock vs. Triple H '00 (****3/4)
King Of The Ring: Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect '93 (*****)
Money In The Bank: John Cena vs. CM Punk '11 (*****)
Night Of Champions: CM Punk vs. John Cena '12 (****1/2)
No Mercy: Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit '02 (****3/4)
No Way Out: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H '01 (*****)
NXT: Chris Jericho vs. Daniel Bryan Feb '10 (****)
Over The Limit: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan '12 (****3/4)
Raw: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels April '07 (****3/4)
Royal Rumble: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack '00 (*****)
Smackdown: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit May '01 (****3/4)
Survivor Series: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance '01 (*****)
SummerSlam: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog '92 (*****)
The Great American Bash/The Bash: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio '09 (****3/4)
TLC: Rybell No vs. The Shield '12 (****1/2)
UK Exclusive PPV's: Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker One Night Only (****1/2)
Unforgiven: Edge vs. Matt Hardy '05 (****1/2)
Vengeance: The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle '02 (****3/4)
WrestleMania: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels WM25 (*****)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't understand why people think Jericho/Bryan fron NXT is so great. It's like 6 minutes and the last 90 seconds are what actually makes it more memorable than any other regular TV match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I don't understand why people think Jericho/Bryan fron NXT is so great. It's like 6 minutes and the last 90 seconds are what actually makes it more memorable than any other regular TV match.


Yeah I'm with you on that. It was good for NXT and a nice debut for Bryan but I wouldn't call it a great match. The match they had on Raw this week is comfortably better. Thought that was a really good sprint.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just turned on Wrestlemania XXIII (*STARZ?!?!*) and I just noticed something ridiculous ; WHAT IS UP WITH THESE CREEPY WRESTLEMANIA PROMOS ?

In the Pre-Wrestlemania XIX video package there's a line that says "One day... We will die" and it cuts to Eddie Guerrero in the locker room. WELL in the Pre-Wrestlemania XXIII promo we get different "superstars" talking about how they got to where they were... WELL there's a moment in it where somebody says "We dedicated our lives to get here" , said by none other than Mr Chris Benoit. Has there ever been a more ironically true statement than that one ?

FUCKIN' PREMONITIONS .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Wrestlemania XXIII 

MITB III: **3/4
Khali/Kane: *
Benoit/MVP: ***
Undertaker/Batista: ****1/4
ECW Originals/New Breed: *
Lashley/Umaga: *1/2
Melina/Ashley: DUD
Cena/Michaels: ***1/2

Taker & Batista match is on par with their Cyber Sunday one which means it's excellent. MITB was all over the place, only good thing was Hornswoggle getting hit with a Kenton Bomb  
Rest of the show is pretty poor to be fair. Cena and Michaels was great but i hoped for a bit more (i think their Raw match is way better) 
HATED Lashley/Umaga last time i saw it, Lashley was so sloppy and Umaga just didn't get a chance to shine. Fuck Donald Trump too, not even Steve Austin could save this.

WM 24 on the other hand is one of the best Mania's ever. May watch it again soon.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm one of the people that think Cena/Michaels is far better than Taker/Batista. **** 1/2 for Cena/HBK (top 4/5 Mania Main Events EVER) and *** 3/4 for Taker/Tista. I enjoy both but don't quite get the super love that the other gets. Maybe it's because I didn't think Batista had any shot at winning whatsoever... idk. Still amazes me how that Cena/Michaels match is the only major one they had that hasn't made a DVD release (non-ppv release). :no:

I like Mania 23 but it should've been much better. Benoit/MVP was going along really really well and should've gotten more time. Just cut Khali/Kane and you're good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd put Taker/Batista comfortably above HBK/Cena, and Taker/Batista is my MOTY. So much more awesomeness packed in a smaller amount of time. Wherevers Cena/HBK drops off for me at certain points, Taker/Batista keeps at such a high level throughout. Taker's best non-HBK WM match.

WM23 Ratings:

Wrestlemania XXIII

MITB III: ***1/2
Khali/Kane: DUD
Benoit/MVP: ***1/2
Undertaker/Batista: ****1/2
ECW Originals/New Breed: **
Lashley/Umaga: ***
Melina/Ashley: DUD
Cena/Michaels: ****


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

My turn~

Armageddon: Um, I never realised this but Armageddon's kinda dry for really good matches. Probably the four way ladder match from 06.
Backlash: Orton v Foley
Bad Blood: Taker v Michaels
Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday: HHH v Flair?
ECW: Swagger v Christian 2/24/09
Elimination Chamber: I'd say the best match of the gimmick is the SD Chamber from 2011. Is it better than Lawler/Miz? idk
Extreme Rules/One Night Stand: Lesnar v Cena
Hell In A Cell: Probably Henry v Orton
Judgment Day: Benoit v Finlay
King Of The Ring: Hart v Hennig
Money In The Bank: Cena v Punk
Night Of Champions: Uhhhhhhh......Cena v Punk?
No Mercy: Benoit v Regal, I guess.
No Way Out: Guerrero v Lesnar
NXT: Something Goldust or Regal did I'm sure.
Over The Limit: Punk v Bryan
Raw: Hart v Waltman 7/11/94
Royal Rumble: Cena v Umaga or Trip v Jack
Survivor Series: Hart v Austin
SummerSlam: I guess Austin v Angle. I gotta watch Michaels v Hall again.
The Great American Bash/The Bash: WWE only then probably Rey/Eddie or Rey/Jericho
TLC: Sheamus v Morrison
Unforgiven: Hardy v Edge
Vengeance: Trip v Batista
WrestleMania: Hart v Hart or Hart v Austin


Half-assed off the top of my head. I listed other matches before remembering "OH THIS THIS THIS", so yeah, bound to forget something in there. I actually agreed with a bunch of what he put down.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best match from each of these:

Armageddon: Undertaker vs. Randy Orton 2005 (HIAC)- ****1/4

Backlash: Rock vs. HHH 2000- ****1/2

Bad Blood: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels 1997 (HIAC)- *****

Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday: Batista vs. The Undertaker 2007 (Special Guest Referee Stone Cold Steve Austin)- ****1/2

ECW: Jack Swagger vs. Christian Feb '09- ****1/4

Elimination Chamber: SD EC '11- ****1/4

Extreme Rules/One Night Stand: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan '12- ****1/4

Hell In A Cell: Barrett vs. Cena 2010 (Surprised me this was the best HIAC PPV match on my list, lol)- ****

Judgment Day: Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL 2004- ****1/2

King Of The Ring: Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect 1993- ****1/4

Money In The Bank: John Cena vs. CM Punk 2011- ****1/2

Night Of Champions: Cena vs. HHH 2008- ****

No Mercy: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker 2002- ****3/4

No Way Out: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker 2006- *****

NXT: Chris Jericho vs. Daniel Bryan Feb 2010- ***1/2

Over The Limit: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan 2012- *****

Raw: HBK vs. Benjamin 2005 (Gold Rush)- ****1/2

Royal Rumble: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle 2003- *****

Survivor Series: Bret Hart vs. Austin 1996- *****

SummerSlam: Kurt Angle vs. Austin 2001- ****3/4

The Great American Bash/The Bash: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio 2009- ****1/2

TLC: Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No 2012- ****1/2

Unforgiven: Edge vs. Matt Hardy 2005- ****1/4

Vengeance: Batista vs. HHH 2005- ****1/2

WrestleMania: Austin vs. Bret Hart WM13


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ok brain, you've had a nap, now get to work:

Armageddon: Undertaker Vs Randy Orton 2005 (HIAC) - ****1/2

Backlash: Guerrero Vs RVD 2002 - ****1/4

Bad Blood: The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels 1997 (HIAC) - *****

Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday: Batista Vs The Undertaker 2007 (Special Guest Referee Stone Cold Steve Austin) - ****1/2

ECW: Jack Swagger Vs Christian 24/02/2009 - ****1/2

Elimination Chamber: SD Chamber 2011 I guess - ?

Extreme Rules/One Night Stand: Cena Vs Lesnar 2012 - ****1/2

Hell In A Cell: Big Show Vs Sheamus 2012 - ****

Judgment Day: Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL 2004 - ****1/2

King Of The Ring: Bret Hart Vs Mr. Perfect 1993 - *****

Money In The Bank: John Cena Vs CM Punk 2011 - ****3/4

Night Of Champions: Punk Vs Cena 2012 - ****1/4

No Mercy: Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker 2002 - ****3/4

No Way Out: Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker 2006 - ****3/4

NXT: ?

Over The Limit: CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan 2012 - ****3/4

Raw: Owen Vs Bulldog 03/03/1997 - ****3/4

Royal Rumble: 1992 Royal Rumble Match - ***** or HHH Vs Cactus Jack 2000 - ****3/4

Survivor Series: Bret Hart Vs Austin 1996 - *****

SummerSlam: Kurt Angle Vs Austin 2001 - ****3/4

The Great American Bash/The Bash: Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio 2005 - ****

TLC: Sheamus Vs Morrison 2010 - ****1/4

Unforgiven: Undertaker Vs Lesnar 2002 - ****14

Vengeance: Batista Vs HHH 2005 - ****1/2

WrestleMania: Undertaker Vs HBK WM 26 - *****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Armageddon:* Undertaker vs Randy Orton 2005 (HIAC)- ★★★★½
*Backlash:* Randy Orton vs Mick Foley 2004 (No Holds Barred) - ★★★★½
*Bad Blood:* Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels 1997 (HIAC) - ★★★★½
*Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday:* Ric Flair vs Triple H 2004 (Steel Cage) - ★★★★½
*ECW:* No idea
*Elimination Chamber:* Smackdown Chamber 2011 - ★★★★
*Extreme Rules/One Night Stand:* John Cena vs Brock Lesnar 2012 - ★★★★½
*Hell In A Cell:* Big Show vs Sheamus 2012 - ★★★★
*Judgment Day:* Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL 2004 - ★★★★½
*King Of The Ring:* Undertaker vs Triple H 2002 - ★★★★★★★★★★ (For a serious answer, I have barely seen anything KOTR)
*Money in the Bank:* John Cena vs CM Punk 2011 - ★★★★½
*Night of Champions:* John Cena vs Triple H 2008 - ★★★★
*No Mercy:* Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker 2002 (HIAC) - ★★★★½
*No Way Out:* Kurt Angle vs Undertaker 2006 - ★★★★★
*NXT:* ---
*Over the Limit:* Randy Orton vs Christian 2011 - ★★★★½
*Raw:* Too many to name
*Royal Rumble:* Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle 2003 - ★★★★★
*Survivor Series:* Elimination Chamber 2002 - ★★★★½
*SummerSlam:* Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton 2004 - ★★★★½
*The Great American Bash/The Bash:* John Cena vs Bobby Lashley 2007 - ★★★★
*TLC:* John Morrison vs Sheamus 2010 - ★★★★
*Unforgiven:* John Cena vs Edge 2006 (TLC) - ★★★★½
*Vengeance:* Batista vs Triple H 2005 (HIAC) - ★★★★¾
*Wrestlemania:* The Rock vs Stone Cold 2001 - ★★★★★


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big Z said:


> Ok brain, you've had a nap, now get to work:
> 
> SummerSlam: Kurt Angle Vs Austin 2001 - ****3/4


Great job brain... an event where I have 2 matches rated at ***** and you picked that match. Moron.

SummerSlam: Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle 2003 - *****

or possibly

SummerSlam: Mr Perfect Vs Bret Hart 1991 - *****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> OHHHHH I'm at one of my favorite cards up and down that I have ever seen ; Wrestlemania XXII. Anybody wanna throw out some *STARZ?!*.
> 
> I wonder if *Clique* was here. I also wonder why Cody doesn't like GAME-Sheena .


It's nothing overly special. I'll take Night of Champions 2008 over it any day.

Don't beat yourself up over it Cal. I'd say you got it right the first time. Austin vs Angle IS the top Summerslam match. I'd probably have Angle vs Mysterio at number two. No freakin lie. It's the best.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I might have Angle/Rey top 5. Really excellent match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn near a perfect match all under 10 minutes. It's kind of unbelievable. But, not really considering it was at Angle's peak and Mysterio is probably the most consistent wrestler ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Rey/Angle, I just finished watching their UK Smackdown match the week before Backlash 06. Not as good as some of their other stuff and it's ruined by :henry1 random interference. Any thoughts on that match? And while we're at it, their match in 05 during the Japan tour?

I often hear their SS 02 match being praised but rarely anything about their TV stuff.

Watching BACKLASH 06 now, so if you got any ratings for that, bring em out!

EDIT: LOL @ Maria. "Is your tag team partner, God, gonna show up tonight?" :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc their Smackdown match in Japan is GREAT. Not sure about the 2006 affair.

*Backlash 2006*

Masters vs Carlito ~ ***
Flair vs Umaga ~ **
Trish vs Mickie ~ 1/28 (if only the injury didn't happen this would have been good)
RVD vs Shelton ~ ****
Kane vs Big Show ~ DUD
HBK/GOD vs McMahons ~ ***3/4
Cena vs Trips vs Edge ~ ****1/4

Great show. One of my favorites from the brand split PPVs.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think their were 2 Angle/Rey matches in 06 on SD... gave one **1/2 and the other **... so I don't think much .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

attempting to download some stuff from ecw 2008-2010, as cal has rated some good stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal gets all the praise. I started the ECW project first. :hmm:

How does Cal beat me again? SHENANIGANS


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> I think their were 2 Angle/Rey matches in 06 on SD... gave one **1/2 and the other **... so I don't think much .


Yeah, I think both were subpar to be honest. Now their 2005 match in Japan... that was great! They went for almost 20 minutes. Think they've also had some matches on SD some more. Including 2003 and I think once at 2004. Nothing mind-blowing but I recall them being better than both of the 06 matches.

It's time for RVD and SHELTY B now. I expect something good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had one in 02 before SummerSlam too I think?

Also, SUCK IT CODY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> They had one in 02 before SummerSlam too I think?
> 
> Also, SUCK IT CODY.


:taker


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao

suggest PACKS for me to download.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ECW 2009 . Don't think there is an ECW 2008 one (not on XWT or PWT anyway) .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I know this is not the pace to be asking it but since one of the guys is currently in WWE I guess I can. Is Tyler Black vs Davey Richards any good? I've heard that it's the closest thing to psychology on a modern day ROH match. The reason why I'm asking this here in this section and not the Other Section is because, quite frankly, after spending some time posting in here and checking out matches based on recommendations, I value the opinion of posters in this section a hell of a lot more than the Other Section.

So is the mach any good? I know a typical response would be "Check the damn thing out for yourself" but come on. We're talking 30 minutes of my life I may or may not get back here.

But just to make a proper contribution to this section, holy shit is Cena vs Taker from Vengeance a forgotten gem! Good Lord, the chemistry that Cena and Taker have. And to think that that was just 2003/2004!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

they have 2006 though. any good?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

06 has Big Show's great run . Little bit of Punk too. Not much else though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> they have 2006 though. any good?


Sorry for just butting myself into your conversation but I downloaded 2006 and 2007, I haven't reached very far into it but '06 is pretty awesome mostly cause of Big Show. Some really good matches like Show/Flair and Show/Taker. Also I just want to point out a nice, fun Test vs Tommy Dreamer match. I never took Dreamer for much of a storyteller. Did a good job of putting Test over.

Plus there's Kevin freaking Thorne!

Oh yeah and Kelly Kelly taking her clothes off


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I know this is not the pace to be asking it but since one of the guys is currently in WWE I guess I can. Is Tyler Black vs Davey Richards any good? I've heard that it's the closest thing to psychology on a modern day ROH match. The reason why I'm asking this here in this section and not the Other Section is because, quite frankly, after spending some time posting in here and checking out matches based on recommendations, I value the opinion of posters in this section a hell of a lot more than the Other Section.
> 
> So is the mach any good? I know a typical response would be "Check the damn thing out for yourself" but come on. We're talking 30 minutes of my life I may or may not get back here.
> 
> But just to make a proper contribution to this section, holy shit is Cena vs Taker from Vengeance a forgotten gem! Good Lord, the chemistry that Cena and Taker have. And to think that that was just 2003/2004!


It's worth a watch. I'll say that as a devoted Tyler Black fan. Plus, the only Davey matches that seem to hold up from his later years seem to be the matches vs Black or Austin Aries. If it sucks, then my apologies. I don't own it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well fuck me, turns out even *I* gave Davey/Tyler a watch lol:



Spoiler: some indie match



Tyler Black Vs Davey Richards - ROH DBD VIII 2010

So, the match all Indy fans have been raving about since it happened. I went in with, not low expectations, but certainly not "****3/4" expectations. Probably for the best I went into it not expecting a supermegaawesomesauce match, because I would have been disappointed, but I ended up being fairly surprised for the most part.

First part of the match is fine, both guys going back and forth on the mat and exchanges holds etc, to try and gain the advantage. Happens in almost every big ROH match pretty much, and it never impresses me, but its never usually bad.

Things definitely pick up when Tyler starts to let the fans get to him ("you still suck", fuck you Tyler" chants), and he decides to punish Davey ("new world champ" chants for him lol) by showing his boot into his face and stomp on it.

Then things get ever better from there, with Davey managing to create an opening, and taking some time to check to see if he is missing a tooth. When he believes he HAS lost a tooth thanks to Tyler, he goes uber apeship and literally kicks the FUCK out of Tyler. Some really stiff shots that you can clearly see Tyler tensing up to take so he won't get too hurt lol.

Some of the shit I don't like about Davey comes into play when Tyler starts making a comeback, such as getting a big boot from Tyler (Davey is a fucking midget, and Tyler is like a foot taller than him) and he doesn't even go down. He just turns around so Tyler can hit another couple of moves so they can give us a SPOT SEQUENCE.

Speaking of spots, Davey hits a pretty awesome looking dive through (or over, I don't remember well enough) the ropes, hitting Black and flying into the crowd too. Didn't mind this happening as Tyler had the advantage in the match up until a few moments ago, and being the smaller man in the match, you could say Davey was willing to do anything he could to keep the bigger champion down.

From here though, things kinda take a turn for the worst. Moves for the sake of moves a lot of the time (not ALL the time, there is still a lot of good here), Black diving over the ropes onto Davey for no fucking reason at all (Black was in control, Davey was on the outside thanks to Black... so why fucking bother?), and some random guy who I assume is a friend of Davey's shows up with a chair, only to do fuck all and help Tyler superkick Davey (which was unintentional on behalf of the friend... I think. Maybe it leads to something later, I don't know). If that lead to the finish, then it would have been fine, but as it was, it was completely pointless to the match.

Finishing stretch is... holy shit its actually really GOOD. Both men sell their fatigue through it all, and they don't go finish crazy or anything. I think both guys kick out of a finisher (not entire sure because I don't know what either man uses as a primary finisher lol), and the finish comes when Tyler hits a second superkick to Davey while he is on his knees, but instead of letting him drop and going for a pin, he picks up back up and hits a suplex pin thingy for the win.

So, I'm actually pretty impressed. Don't think its close to HBK/Taker (and honestly, I will be surprised as FUCK if anything comes close to that this year, next year, the rest of the decade...), but its most certainly superior to the overrated cage match between Anderson and Angle in TNA. Its just a shame the middle section of the match was filled with some pointlessness, otherwise this WOULD have been just about as good as everyone has claimed it to be.

Rating: ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I trying to figure out what the "suplex pin thingy" is. Paroxysm? God's Last Gift? Although the latter is a small package DDT so that can't be it...:hmm:


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Heads up. Free 2 chamber matches on WWE's youtube channel for a free watch. Just in case you wanted to get hyped up for EC this weekend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2011 one is GREAT.

2010 one not so much.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks for the links. I'll have to watch those two among all the chambers to rate them all before Sunday.

*Backlash 2006:*

Carlito vs Chris Masters - ★★¼
- Nothing that had me interested but they put enough effort in to make this a passable match. Not too long and Carlito has the crowd on his side. Without changing his attitude or anything, he has turned face and wins by using the ropes for leverage.

Umaga vs Ric Flair - ★★
- Squash match for UMAGA but it's okay. The dirtiest player in the game does what he does best using heelish tactics but it still proves to mean nothing when Umaga bulldozes his way through NAITCH.

Trish Stratus vs Mickie James - ½★
- Unfortunately, Trish is cursed again after her NYR 05 match with Lita was cut short due to mid match injury. Here, they are doing pretty fine for the first 3 or so minutes but then Mickie throws Trish over the top rope and she lands on her shoulder badly and injures it which causes them to improvise with a DQ finish.

Rob Van Dam vs Shelton Benjamin - ★★★★
- Absolutely awesome match. Two of the most athletic and agile wrestlers on the roster get this opportunity for a winner takes all event where the MITB briefcase and Intercontinental Championship are on the line. And to say they deliver is an understatement. Almost 20 minutes but never a dull moment. They use their signature spots very well and there are some pretty memorable highlights, most notably the brutal Sunset Flip Powerbomb Shelton gives RVD on the apron to the floor. As expected, RVD wins in the end but even the finish was more than just a generic clean one. The ref is shoved and "turned around" for a few seconds as Shelton resorts to bringing the briefcase in to win but it proves costly as RVD uses it for the Van Daminator and then a beautiful Frog Splash to win.

Big Show vs Kane - ¾★
- Boring is the perfect word to describe this. Very slow and lifeless until the hilarious "May 19" stuff takes place and the match ends without actually ending.

Shane & Vince McMahon vs Shawn Michaels & "God" - ★★★½
- A very fun match. Starts off with some comedy as "Vince wants God to get jiggy with it" but then they finally get serious and actually have a proper handicap match that goes all the way to the ramp and there, all three men put their bodies through some tough spots. But eventually, the McMahons take control and start beating on HBK for a very long amount of time. Vince is distracted and starts talking to the spotl- I mean "God". That gives HBK enough time to make his comeback where he destroys both opponents single-handedly while bloodied. Just when we're about to see a rehash of the WM22 finish, Spirit Squad interfere and attack Shawn enough to give Vince the chance to pin him in the middle of that ring. Surprisingly good for what it was and the terrible storyline accompanying it. Also chuckled at the WM recall when Vince tried to superkick Michaels.

John Cena vs Triple H vs Edge - ★★★★¼
- Wow, this was even better than I remembered it being. A highly entertaining three way with very good action and back and forth involving all three men. Starts off with Edge taking advantage of the hatred between HHH and Cena as they beat each other but then they realize they are being fooled and start beating on Edge (early hints of HHH's face turn along with the DX Chop). From then on, the match just picks up the speed and the action becomes more interesting. Edge catapults HHH into the steel post (and you can _clearly_ see HHH do one hell of a blade job while he's on the floor about to get launched) and the match just becomes more intense from that point on. The spots with Cena locking in the STFU where excellent in particular. Just when Edge is about to get FUed, HHH lowblows Cena but his Pedigree attempt fails since Cena reverses it into a Jackknife pin for the victory which smarks all over the world dreaded. It's amazing how one year of no championships worked to Hunter's advantage here. He's got fans eating out of the palm of his hands calling for him to become champion yet the year before, the very same people complained about him hogging the spotlight too much. And speaking of Hunter, what's the matter with his music around this period? Once "The Game" is played then another time "King of Kings". Usually, in the same night too.

*Overall:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (A pretty good PPV for a brand exclusive. Three great matches while the rest of the card ranges from okay to terrible. But usually, the good stuff is enough to make the PPV worth it and in this case, I say it is just that. I could have done without the awful Matt Striker/Eugene segment, though.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

the only difference we had was on the opener. Which I thought was one of Carlito's only "good" matches. Masters helped him through it. Although, how Kane vs Show escaped a DUD from you is kind of a mystery. :hmm:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I gave the opener the "okay" rating. Not bad and not very good, just there and harmless.

And I don't have DUD in my rating system. The lowest I go is 0 and Show/Kane was not bad enough to get that although it was definitely awful.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't give many DUDS. Well not many that I remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I give them when they're deserving. Bad wrestling, booking, or if forces completely demolish a match that's when they usually come out for me.

Nothing complicated as how or why matches I view earn the lowest of low "ratings" from me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash '06
Carlito/Masters - ***1/4
Umaga/Flair - **1/4
RVD/Benjamin - ****1/4
Vince/Shane vs HBK/God - ***3/4
Triple H/Edge/Cena - ****1/4

Show is really fun, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not the only one who thinks the TAG TEAM MATCH is totally awesome. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BEHOLD THE KING. THE KING OF KINGS. THERE IS ONLY ONE.

Legit my favorite theme song and moniker for any performer ever, hence why it's my username .

Armageddon: Undertaker Vs Randy Orton 2005 (HIAC) - * ****1/4*

Backlash: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ***** 1/2*

Bad Blood: The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels 1997 (HIAC) - *******

Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday: Triple H vs Ric Flair (Cage) : ***** 1/4*

Elimination Chamber: SD Chamber 2010 - ***** 1/4*

Extreme Rules/One Night Stand: Cena Vs Lesnar 2012 - *******

Hell In A Cell: Big Show Vs Sheamus 2012 - ******

Judgment Day: Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL 2004 - ***** 1/2*

King Of The Ring: Bret Hart Vs Mr. Perfect 1993 - ***** 3/4*

Money In The Bank: John Cena Vs CM Punk 2011 - *******

Night Of Champions: CM Punk Vs John Cena 2012 - ***** 1/4*

No Mercy: Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker 2002 - ***** 3/4*

No Way Out: Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker 2006 - *******

Over The Limit: CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan 2012 - ***** 3/4*

Raw: Triple H/Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho - ***** 3/4*

Royal Rumble: HHH Vs Cactus Jack 2000 - *******

Survivor Series: Bret Hart Vs Austin 1996 - *******

SummerSlam: Kurt Angle Vs Austin 2001 - ***** 3/4*

The Great American Bash/The Bash: Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio 2005 - ******

TLC: Sheamus Vs Morrison 2010 - *****1/4*

Unforgiven: Undertaker Vs Lesnar 2002 - ***** 1/4*

Vengeance: Batista Vs HHH 2005 - ***** 3/4*

WrestleMania: ??? 

Off the top of my head.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Armageddon: Londrick vs. Regal/Taylor vs. MNM vs. The Hardys 2006 (Ladder) ****1/2

Backlash: Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack 2004 (Hardcore) ****3/4

Bad Blood: The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels 1997 (HIAC) *****

Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday: Triple H vs Ric Flair 2005 (Cage) **** 1/2

Elimination Chamber: SD Chamber 2011 (WHC) ****1/4

Extreme Rules/One Night Stand: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar 2012 (Extreme Rules) ****3/4

Hell In A Cell: Big Show vs. Sheamus 2012 (WHC) ****1/4

Judgment Day: Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL 2004 (WWE) ****3/4

King Of The Ring: The Undertaker vs. Mankind 1998 (HIAC) *****

Money In The Bank: CM Punk vs. John Cena 2011 (WWE) - *****

Night Of Champions: CM Punk vs. John Cena 2012(WWE) - **** 1/4

No Mercy: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker 2002 (HIAC) - ****3/4

No Way Out: Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar 2004 (WWE) - ****3/4

Over The Limit: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan 2012 (WWE) - **** 3/4

Raw: Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs. The Two Man Power Trip 2001 (Tag Titles) - *****

Royal Rumble: (TIE) Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit 2003/Triple H vs. Cactus Jack 2000 (WWE) - *****

Survivor Series: Bret Hart vs. Diesel 1995 (WWE) - ****3/4

SummerSlam: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart 1994 (WWE) - ****3/4

The Great American Bash/The Bash: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho 2009 (IC) - ****1/2

TLC: The Shield vs. Ryback/Team Hell No 2012 (TLC) - *****, serious. 

Unforgiven: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Dude Love 1998 (WWE) - ****1/4

Vengeance: The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle 2002 (WWE) - ****3/4

WrestleMania: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho 2003 - *****



Smackdown: Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero 2002 (No DQ) - ****1/2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

When was that Chamber where Rey Rey tore the fucking house down? Yeah, that's the best one. I think I gave it ****1/4.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

During Bret Hart's WWF Champion days in the early-to-mid 90's, does anyone remember any matches against Bam Bam Bigelow that stand out? Show/dates preferably as I'm interested.

I have seen this one:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I always liked his King Of the Ring match myself, he also had one in Spain I havnt seen yet that's actually on his DVD, and another that'll be on his new unreleased DVD...


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Bam Bam is getting a DVD? That's pretty cool. Hope it has some of his Japan stuff on it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He means Bret Hart's DVD .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah sorry lol, I meant Bret. I have seen somewhere a homebrew comp of Bam Bam's Japan matches, wouldn't mind it myself, always like him, and love his matches with Vader.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> When was that Chamber where Rey Rey tore the fucking house down? Yeah, that's the best one. I think I gave it ****1/4.


That was either the 2009 Raw chamber or the 2011 SD chamber. Both outstanding matches and performances by both Rey and Edge.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Elimination Chamber 2011:

Kofi/Del Rio- ***
SD EC Match- *****
Santino&Kozlov/Slater&Gabriel- **
Miz/Lawler- **3/4
RAW EC Match- ****1/2

Thoughts: Excellent show with 2 awesome matches and a very good one. Miz/Lawler receives a pretty big rating for me, because of the drama form that match. THe SD EC Match is a classic, and Kofi/Del Rio vas a solid opener.

Elimination Chamber 2012:

RAW EC Match- ***
Tamina/Beth- *3/4
SD EC Match- ***3/4
Swagger/Gabriel- DUD
Cena/Kane- **1/2

Thoughts: Bad PPV, very bad. I think the RAW EC Match is one of the worst EC matches that i can remember, and the SD one didn't shine either. And we have Cena in an ambulance match main-eventing a PPV with Elimination Chamber as its name. Oh yeah and that match wans't good either


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Elimination Chamber 2011:
Kofi/Del Rio- ** 
SD EC Match- ****1/2
Santino&Kozlov/Slater&Gabriel- *
Miz/Lawler- **
RAW EC Match- ****

Opener served it's purpose in showing off Del Rio. 
SD chamber is AMAZING. So close to being the best chamber but i think it's just behind NYR 05
Tag match was shit, but what else would you expect?
Miz/Lawler was okay, no where near their ladder match but it was okay. Miz as champion was just awful.
Raw chamber was great too.

Elimination Chamber 2012:
RAW EC Match- **
Tamina/Beth- SKIPPED
SD EC Match- **1/4
Swagger/Gabriel- DUD
Cena/Kane- DUD

Raw chamber was weird, the whole Jericho getting knocked out was just odd and didn't sit right with me. Really poor chamber considering who was in it, should have been a lot better.
SD chamber was better than Raw's but that's not saying much. 
Cena/Kane was just _terrible_. Odd structure and just flat out boring. Both their matches in 2012 i think are DUD's.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

EC 2011:

Alberto/Kofi - **
SD EC - ***1/2
Tag titles - Didn't even watch live. Went for food.
Miz/Lawler - **3/4
Raw EC - **3/4

Never rated the 2012 even, but I thought it was all shit outside of a couple of entertaining moments in the chamber matches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

murder said:


> That was either the 2009 Raw chamber or the 2011 SD chamber. Both outstanding matches and performances by both Rey and Edge.


It was 2009. Yep, the greatest EC ever. Well, it's not like I watched every single on of them, but I cannot imagine anything being better than that.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Surprised to see anything less than **** for that EC WHC chamber from 2011. To me it gives the NYR '05 one a run for its money.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Big Z said:


> He means Bret Hart's DVD .


Aww, man. That's too bad. Who the fuck cares about ANOTHER Bret Hart DVD? Now I'm sad.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

What if I told you....

The EC match which featured Vladimir Kozlov may be the best EC ever...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> What if I told you....
> 
> The EC match which featured Vladimir Kozlov may be the best EC ever...


The 2009 Smackdown one?

It's good, but it drags a tad when Kozlov and Show do their thing. Taker and Hunter certainly tear the house down but i still don't think it's anywhere near NYR 05, SD 11 and the original SS 02.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

This year's chamber has potential to be fucking epic. Henry better wreck shit. Would be awesome if he was #1 in the match. Have him beat whoever was #2, then have him rip open someone's pod to get to them before its time for them to enter the match :mark:. Or have him break out of his pod early if he doesn't start :mark:. So many awesome possibilities from just one guy in the match :mark:.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Henry and Orton to finish the chamber please.

With Henry getting the w.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry and Jericho should end it. Would be awesome finishing stretch. Don't recall them having a match before either, so yeah. THAT.

Guessing Swaggs goes out first, Kane and Bryan next, potentially fucking each other over to further their split leading to WM, then Orton goes down and we are left with Henry and Jericho to tear shit up.

Edit: Ok, they had one or two in 09. Henry was face so they don't count .

Edit 2: And one of them was about 2 minutes long and ended in a countout.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Henry gotta start. Ain't no way he can fit in a chamber. Homeboy is too SWOLE~!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big Daddy V could fit in a chamber. Henry can too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

ANYONE think Shield could get away with a win over team face?

I know :cena2 is going into mania strong but i live in hope.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shield really shouldn't be losing so soon. But they're again the SUPER TEAM of SUPER CENA and SUPER SHEAMUS and SUPER RYBACK so fuck knows.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Big Daddy V could fit in a chamber. Henry can too.


Nope. Henry too swole. He's a duplex of stank. He needs that old school Yoko style coffin: double-wide, double-deep, son!

He needs to bring back his swamp ass spot where he wiped his ass with the back of his opponents head.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> ANYONE think Shield could get away with a win over team face?
> 
> I know :cena2 is going into mania strong but i live in hope.


Absolutely yes. I'm guessing Shield will win to be honest. They can't and won't kill them off before Mania. 

Don't worry about Cena. Remember, Rock lost at NWO 00, Austin in 01, Hunter in 02 and Rey in 06. A Rumble win does not guarantee a win at the February PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Walk-In said:


> Nope. Henry too swole. He's a duplex of stank. He needs that old school Yoko style coffin: double-wide, double-deep, son!
> 
> He needs to bring back his swamp ass spot where he wiped his ass with the back of his opponents head.


Your words. I don't understand them.



Got my DVD's from SV this morning. Free delivery and usually always next day. Gotta love em. Yet to make any kind of order with the new DVD distributor. Fuck them. Anywho, completed my WM DVD collection now. Well, DVD/Bluray. Don't own WM 28 on DVD, not with Bluray around. Don't think I have 27 on DVD either. Anyway. Yeah.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Listamaniaaaaa. Best Elimination Chamber Matches:

1. Survivor Series 2002 - ****1/2
2. New Year's Revolution 2005 (BENOIT, BATISTAAA) - ****1/4
3. No Way Out 2008 (RAW, FUCKING UMAGA YES) - ****
4. Elimination Chamber 2011 (Smackdown (REY REY, MCINTYRE!? YES) - ****
5. All the rest (I have a bunch at ***1/2)

Elimination Chamber 2011:

Del Rio/Kofi - ** 1/2
SD EC - ****
Tag Match - ?
Miz/Lawler - ** 3/4
RAW EC - ***

Not a big fan of the main event. Pretty much a one match although is Miz/Lawler is fun.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I know this is not the pace to be asking it but since one of the guys is currently in WWE I guess I can. Is Tyler Black vs Davey Richards any good? I've heard that it's the closest thing to psychology on a modern day ROH match. The reason why I'm asking this here in this section and not the Other Section is because, quite frankly, after spending some time posting in here and checking out matches based on recommendations, I value the opinion of posters in this section a hell of a lot more than the Other Section.
> 
> So is the mach any good? I know a typical response would be "Check the damn thing out for yourself" but come on. We're talking 30 minutes of my life I may or may not get back here.
> 
> But just to make a proper contribution to this section, holy shit is Cena vs Taker from Vengeance a forgotten gem! Good Lord, the chemistry that Cena and Taker have. And to think that that was just 2003/2004!


It's not the closest thing to psychology or any of that jazz, but yeah, really great match. Psychology kinda went out the door when guys like Danielson, Nigel, KOW, & Aries started leaving, but occasionally you'll get something really good out of ROH. Don't be afraid to post in the *Indy DVD Thread*. You'll get logical answers just like you will in here.

More ratings to other posts:

Backlash 2006

Carlito/Masters - ***
Umaga/Flair - IDR
Trish/Mickie - IDR
RVD/Shelton - *** 3/4
Big Show/Kane - ?
HBK/GOD vs. McMahons - *** 1/2
Triple Threat - **** 1/4

Pretty good show for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 06

Mickie James Vs Trish Stratus - **
Shelton Benjamin Vs Rob Van Dam - ****
The Big Show Vs Kane - *3/4
Shawn Michaels & God Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - ***1/2 (nice to see other people like this too :mark
John Cena Vs Triple H Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match - ***3/4

Didn't watch any other matches from the show. When I do my projects I only watch what interests me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

God's entrance was literally a fplam worthy moment. But a good facepalm lol. I found it so stupid (but good stupid ) at just 11 years old. You know an idea is really stupid if an 11 year old finds it stupid. From what I recall, it was a pretty fun match but I haven't seen it since. 

Anyway, I downloaded a Best of Main Event pack and fuck me! There's no Ziggler vs Sheamus on it. Looks like I'm never going to see that match. Oh well, it does have some cool matches on it. I didn't download the entire pack but some of the stuff I pulled from it were Punk/Sheamus, Ziggler/Ryder, Ziggler/Ryback, both Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars matches (which I've yet to watch, going to watch the first one now) and Cena/Sandow (which I recall being good).

I hardly watch main event. I've probably seen like 4 episodes, if so much.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Posted my big RR special on my site, as well as my RR 2013 review . Pimping it because it took me a long ass time to get done and I'm rather proud of a lot of what I did, especially my "By the numbers" parody (the beginning of part 2 video for anyone wanting to see that and nothing else ).

sharkboy22, check your rep .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cal agreed with your RR 13 thoughts (Show/Del Rio was awful. The tag match was nothing new at all) except for Rock/Punk.

I have it at **1/2* and it's lucky to get that. No structure for me, Rock being knackered after 3 minutes doesn't help. Botch wasn't their fault but didn't help the plodding feel. Ending was BULLSHIT. One of the worst endings to a big time match i can remember. Hope to gawd they can get a decent match tomorrow night.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Steamboat vs. Macho Man at WM III >>>>>


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed as well, fantastic videos and review as always *Cal*.

The Royal Rumble 2013 main event was a disgrace and probably the worst Punk match I've seen in a really, really long time. The booking decision baffles me as it does NOTHING long term since Cena can't possibly get any more over by defeating the Rock. This is about one thing and one thing only ; satisfying Vince's urge to have a MOVIE STAR OMGZ be the face of his company for a little while.

In other non RAGE news, between Wrestlemania XXIII and Wrestlemania XXIV I have a new entry in my top 25 WWF/WWE matches ever. *STARZ for Wrestlemania XXIV* ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

MoveMent said:


> Steamboat vs. Macho Man at WM III >>>>>


I've seen it about three times and quite it frankly I don't get the hype for it.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Compared to matches today it might not be as exciting (Not enough steel chairs and random high flying moves I guess) but it's a great match for it's time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cal, you didn't watch Umaga vs FLAIR ? As in, you skipped over a FLAIR match ?

The GOAT would not be impressed :flair3

GIVE ME MY XXIV STARZ DAMN IT.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> *STARZ for Wrestlemania XXIV* ?


:mark:

JBL/Finlay: ***1/4
MITB IV: ****1/4
Batista/Umaga: **
Kane/Chavo: ***** 
Michaels/Flair: ***3/4
Divas: DUD
Orton/Trips/Cena: ***1/4
Mayweather/Show: ***
Undertaker/Edge: ****1/2

LOVE this show. JBL/Finlay is so much fun mostly for Hornswoggle getting hit right in the face with a bin 
MITB is on par with the first one which is still the best one. 
Tista and Umaga is okay, shame for Batista to go from the kind of main event of WM 23 to this.
Michaels/Flair is still great to me, you get caught up in the emotion of the match again.
Triple threat should have been MUCH better but that's not to say it's terrible, it's just okay.
Taker and Edge is awesome, go home sequence is so much fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I remember watching Wrestlemania XXIV live with one of my best friends (The Bret Mark) and he happens to be a HUGE Edge mark too (we're CANADIAN FFS, even though 99 percent of the time I can't stand Edge ), so when Undertaker-Edge went on last he legit thought Edge was going to break the streak...... Then Edge tapped out to Hell's Gate (which didn't even have a name at this point and wasn't really a GREAT establish finisher) and I got to listen to one of the greatest rages of all time.

"WHAT THE FUCK! EDGE JUST TAPPED OUT TO A FUCKING GOGOPLATA OR WHATEVER THE FUCK IT'S CALLED IN THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA ! WHEN THE HELL HAS THAT 50 YEAR OLD MMA ZOMBIE PUT OVER ANYBODY IN THE LONG RUN ? I COULD UNDERSTAND IF THEY ENDED THE MATCH WITH THE TOMBSTONE, BUT THE FUCKING GOGOPLATA ? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! WHEN UNDERTAKER RETIRES NEXT YEAR AND LEAVES THE WWE WITH NO NEW STARS VINCE IS GOING TO WISH THAT SOMEBODY BROKE THE STREAK.... FUCKING GOGOPLATA" :lol :lol :lol

I've watched every single Mania since then and he just can't buy into ANY of the near falls in the streak matches. Whenever HBK hit the superkick, HHH hit the tombstone, and the SCM-Pedigree combo occurred he just looked at me and said "it's not over, nope." ... He REALLY doesn't wanna see Punk "fed to the streak" this year either.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The only time i've ever thought the streak is over is when Orton reversed a choke slam into an RKO beautifully at WM 21. I legitimately thought it was all done then.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> The only time i've ever thought the streak is over is when Orton reversed a choke slam into an RKO beautifully at WM 21. I legitimately thought it was all done then.


This.

That was due to The Streak not being THAT big at this point but coming into it's own, and Orton having the perfect gimmick/story arc to break the streak. Even though Orton didn't break The Streak, I believe that the feud with Undertaker was his true "break out" feud where he finally came into his own and became a great character and a great all around performer.

It's a shame that his career has been so disappointing in it's latter stages, considering how great he was in 2005-2006.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'd say that Orton definitely peaked a character in '06, probably '07. I did enjoy his 2010 babyface run though. There's no denying he was arguably the most over babyface in the company. DAT POP! His 2004 is when it all began though. One of the best midcard years a guy can ask for.

And oh God, it looks like it's time for the weekly "What the hell happened to Orton" discussion


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> That was due to The Streak not being THAT big at this point but coming into it's own, and Orton having the perfect gimmick/story arc to break the streak. Even though Orton didn't break The Streak, I believe that the feud with Undertaker was his true "break out" feud where he finally came into his own and became a great character and a great all around performer.


It's another example of guys looking better and some actually becoming better after working a program with The Undertaker. I completely agree with your assessment of Orton in that 2005 feud with The Undertaker. Goodness knows RKO needed it after the Triple H program set him back a bit imo. Orton was still evolving (no pun) at the point so it helps greatly that he got to work a long program with Undertaker for most of that year in the spring, fall, summer AND winter. 

I also believe that Batista came out of his program with Taker a better performer. He really stepped his game up in that series of matches. I'd say the most consistent and best performances of his career are with Taker in 2007.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'd say that Orton definitely peaked a character in '06, probably '07. I did enjoy his 2010 babyface run though. There's no denying he was arguably the most over babyface in the company. DAT POP! His 2004 is when it all began though. One of the best midcard years a guy can ask for.
> 
> *And oh God, it looks like it's time for the weekly "What the hell happened to Orton" discussion*









rton2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

When i think 2007, I think John Cena. Best worker of the year if you ask me. Not just in the ring but on the mic too.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Nobody was close to Cena in 2007 and he spent the bulk of May through December either injured or in shitty feuds with Khali.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think Cena was FANTASTIC in 2007 but I find it hard to give him MOTY when Shawn Michaels was fuckng BALLIN' throughout most of it. Coming from somebody who just watched their Mania match I can tell you that Shawn's performance in that match is one of the best performances I have ever seen from him, which is covering ALOT of fucking ground. Then you have the DX-Rated RKO tag, his EPIC RUMBLE FINISH against Undertaker, NWO 07 tag, Backlash 2007 four way, and of course his series of matches with Orton including the epic Survivor Series bout.

I don't know.... I just really, REALLY fucking adored Shawn's performance in that Wrestlemania match, that was something special that you don't see too often.

In regards to Undertaker, I think he's elevated whoever he's been with over the last few years to a new level TBH. Starting with Orton, then in 2006 he tried to get Kennedy over HARD and succeeded but Kennedy fucked it up, 2007 it was Batista (who actually WON the feud in the end believe it or not), 2008 it was Edge, 2009 he TRIED with Punk but something wasn't clicking... He's been a part timer ever since.

Makes me optimistic that if Punk-Taker actually happens at Wrestlemania than it could be a build for the ages. Punk is the undisputed best all around talent the company has at this point (IMO of course) with his promo work being at the highest point it's ever been, and with his current character arc it only makes sense for him to try and end the Streak on the grandest stage of them all. I don't LIKE the idea that Punk deserves a main event and isn't getting one, but I'm 99 percent sure that he'll get a Wrestlemaia main event before his career is over.

Getting THE STREAK at this point when Taker has limited matches left in his career shows one thing and one thing only ; that you've become elevated to a whole new level. If Punk gets a STREAK match than it just shows how far he has come in terms of status with the company.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker is my WOTY for 07. RR win, NWO tag, WM then the entire series with Batista, some great TV matches throughout all of this too, and then the end of the year started the Edge feud too. Shame he got injured in the middle.

Cena is #2 for sure though. NWO tag, WM and Raw with HBK, BL 4 way, getting something slightly better than shit out of Khali, then he got injured too.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Big Z said:


> Undertaker is my WOTY for 07. RR win, NWO tag, WM then the entire series with Batista, some great TV matches throughout all of this too, and then the end of the year started the Edge feud too. Shame he got injured in the middle.
> 
> Cena is #2 for sure though. NWO tag, WM and Raw with HBK, BL 4 way, getting something slightly better than shit out of Khali, then he got injured too.


No love for Cena/Umaga from Rumble? I think they had a good Raw match too.

EDIT - Umaga had a really good match with Hardy on Raw and with Cena at the other January PPV. Forgot they had that show.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't know.... I just really, REALLY fucking adored Shawn's performance in that Wrestlemania match, that was something special that you don't see too often.


:agree:

During the final stretch of the match when Shawn is crawling across the ring to put his arm on Cena for the pin fall was a mark out moment for me. The look of pain and desperation to win the title one final time was brilliant. Also brilliant in that match was the piledriver on steel steps and the counter-wrestling at the end with the near falls. Love this match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, I ain't got no love for Cena/Umaga LMS .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It really is a brilliant match, one of the underrated aspects of it being the opening sequence where Cena is throwing big fists at Shawn and Shawn is just ducking them and chopping the shit out of Cena. They made their storytelling clean and clear that Shawn is the determined veteran who is gaining a mean streak for this match, evidenced by the piledriver on the steps.

When you go back and watch it, Cena really doesn't get that much offense in at all and it becomes clear that Shawn is just going absolutely fucking HAM out there to make that match one of the GOAT. I have no idea why this match isn't talked about when it comes to the greatest Wrestlemania main events, and I know that gives away how I feel about it but DAMN. It's a top 5 Cena match and it DESTROYS their 2007 RAW match for sure.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I was the original Cena/Umaga no lover damnit! You just copied my opinions .

Seriously though, I will never in a thousand years understand why that LMS match is so highly regarded, daft, slow as shit, terrible, terrible ending and just... dull.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Craig said:


> I was the original Cena/Umaga no lover damnit! You just copied my opinions .
> 
> Seriously though, I will never in a thousand years understand why that LMS match is so highly regarded, daft, slow as shit, terrible, terrible ending and just... dull.


If I'm gonna copy anyone's opinions, it might as well be from the BEST .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only thing that would make me NOT buy Wrestlemania this year would be if Punk never got a match against Taker, Lesnar, GAME, the alleged triple threat, etc. Granted there's like a 0.1 % chance of this happening because I highly doubt Taker sits out and even if he does I'm thinking they're going to do the triple threat because if you actually watch RAW, you'll notice that Punk is involved in like 5 big segments every single night.

As a matter of fact, Punk is involved in two different story arcs right now that they could go with ; he's involved with ROCK for the title, but at the same time he's involved vaguely with BROCK/HEYMAN/VINCE, and I'm pretty sure the latter arc will be the one that's continued after Elimination Chamber given that Punk and BROCK have had like NO INTERACTION WHATSOEVER.

Then again I think the fact that he has two story arcs could mean that The Undertaker is more banged up than we all originally thought and isn't confirmed for Mania, almost like a PLAN A; feud with Taker, and PLAN B feud with Rock/Cena type deal.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker's my WOTY 2007, though Cena is a close number 2 and due to the fact Taker wasn't there half the year, I can understand someone putting Cena as number 1.

Taker though, he just didn't have a bad match, and all his PPV matches were great. RR 2007's ending is the most epic and best Rumble ending ever with HBK. The NWO tag match was full of awesomeness. WM23 was MOTY with Batista. BL he had an excellent LMS match with Batista, and then even the TV SD match was great, and Taker was injured during it. He comes back, and has another classic with Batista at Cyber Sunday (Taker/Austin in the same ring was :mark: ), an amazing cell match at SVS, and to end the year, a great triple threat with Batista and Edge.

But then you look at Cena and he was just killing it in matches (though I don't agree about him being the best mic worker... but he was a hell of a lot better than he is now). RR match against Umaga is GOAT LMS match. He was a part of that NWO tag match I mentioned in Taker's paragraph. WM23 he had an excellent main event with HBK. The BL07 four-way is GOAT Four-way match, not to mention he did have that classic match with HBK on Raw. Then Cena had to face Khali, and unfortunately no matter how good you are, you can't do justice with Khali. I mean I'd consider his LMS his best match with Taker, but even that was heavily edited and if I saw the un-edited match, that could change in an instant. But Cena did the best he could, and while JD was terrible, ONS was good for a Khali match (though still terrible). The 5-way at Vengeance was good fun, though not anywhere near the level of matches Cena was having before the Khali feud, it was a fun match. He gave Lashley his best WWE match at GAB and it was a great one at that. Summerslam against Orton was awesome, the Unforgiven match wasn't so good but it wasn't meant to be, and Cena was injured the last 2 months.

Taker still wins it for me, but like I said, Cena is close. Taker's individual performance in his matches is what ultimately does it for me, as no one touched him there, and that showed when he was just knocking off great match after great match. Cena unfortunately had to work with Khali, had a 5-way match that was good and fun, but not great, and a match with Orton at Unforgiven that was a feud advancer more than an actual match. 

As for HBK, he had a great. A lot of the stuff I said for the first few months with Cena applies to him, as well as the whole ending RR with Taker. Then he fought Orton (at JD?) and was taken out. Match itself was forgettable. Same thing with the CS match when he returned. Survivor Series however he pulled out a damn near classic with Orton. Oh, and he did have an awesome tag against Rated RKO at the start of the year. That being said, HBK's 7 total months wasn't quite as impressive as Taker's imo, so it's an easy choice there, and Cena as a whole still did better than HBK, so I wouldn't put HBK anywhere near Taker and Cena for WOTY, though he'd probably be number 3.

Edit: HBK/Cena Raw >>>>>>>>>HBK/Cena WM23.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah, I don't see how WWE could have Punk hold the title for over a year and then snub him of a WrestleMania main event. Would be pretty lame on their part and also lame on his part for being content with it. I'm sticking with the triple threat for the title and Lesnar/Taker for WM.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Don't forget Taker's Smackdown matches with Finlay and Henry in 2007. Good stuff right there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Don't forget Taker's Smackdown matches with Finlay and Henry in 2007. Good stuff right there.


Great match with Kennedy on SD too, and a bunch of super fun tags with Batista against the likes of MVP, Kennedy, Finlay etc. There's a good Undertaker/Henry match though? Only remember their UF match that was... uhhh... not a classic .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thankfully the wait isn't that long. I think people are pissed off because the WWE has been cock-teasing us that we're NOT getting rematch-mania and giving people hope when we should know better than that by now .

If Rock/Cena can hold it's own, than I'm more than confident that Jericho/Ziggler, a HENRY match, The SHIELD vs ???, HHH/Lesnar, and Punk/Taker could make up one of the greatest shows ever unless they royally fuck shit up with match structure.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Clique said:


> Don't forget Taker's Smackdown matches with Finlay and Henry in 2007. Good stuff right there.


Can you link the Taker/Finlay match? I can't seem to recall the match. 

If Taker/Henry was that good, link it too as well. Their WM and Unforgiven matches don't give me high hopes about anything I don't remember them doing though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Check your rep, The Rawk .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Big Z said:


> Check your rep, The Rawk .


Thank you good sir.  Watching it right now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everybody hates the HENRY match besides me I think. I thought it was pretty good given the circumstances of Henry not being that good at that point and Taker just coming back from injury, plus the expectations of it being in the MAIN EVENT which it SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN. ****


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, I don't consider Taker/Henry at Unforgiven BAD, just not good. I had it in the **-**1/2 range, which goes with decent/below average for me. Shouldn't have been main event though, but what else was there at the time? Cena/Orton was worse and besides, I hate PPV's ending on DQ's. And the three-way World Title match... couldn't see that match main eventing as it was terrible as well.

But I just can't imagine a Taker/Henry match being "great" until I see it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree the Taker/Henry Unforgiven match is terrible. I did love all the build up videos for another Undertaker return:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

* for Taker/Henry UF.



Spoiler: terrible match



The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry – Unforgiven 16/09/2007

Well, this match unfortunately had to happen. Undertaker was injured a few months earlier during his title reign, and after going to another draw with Batista, was attacked by Mark Henry and put on the shelf. And with Khali as the champion going into this PPV, WWE needed to keep Undertaker occupied with someone on his return while Batista regained the World Championship so they could continue their title feud at the next event.

In terms of build-up and video packages for this feud and Undertaker’s return, it was pretty awesome. All the things they did with the druids showing up when Mark Henry was in the ring and whatnot was great, and the videos going to Death Valley to resurrect the Dead Man were fantastic. Don’t recall the match being anything close to fantastic though...

Still amazing to think that this match was the MAIN EVENT to the show. Then again, Khali/Batista/Mysterio and Orton/Cena didn’t exactly scream “classic” on paper either, so The Undertaker’s big return was definitely the way to go

Undertaker’s return entrance is pretty spectacular with the flames, the awesome lighting, the lightning, and a ton of smoke/fog. But the bell is about to ring, and I somehow doubt the word “spectacular” is going to come up in this review again...

The Dead Man is back, and pissed at Henry for taking him out, so he goes straight after the face with those massive right hands, hoping that one of them will cave in the skull of the self proclaimed World’s Strongest Man. Henry reverses Old School, and they battle on the ropes for what seems like a lifetime before Henry actually hits a fucking superplex. Mark Henry. Superplex. Good GOD!

Henry begins to dominate now, with Undertaker getting some big shots in every so often, only to be put down again mainly due to his intentions of killing Henry rather than beating him.

Gotta love JBL going VINATGE~! SummerSlam 1994 commentary by claiming that the crowd is DEAD because they are just in awe at Henry dominating The Undertaker. Somehow I just can’t believe that.

Henry does a decent job working over the ribs of The Undertaker to set up for the World’s Strongest Slam, but he’s just so fucking slow that it’s hard to get into. Undertaker even gets bored of Henry’s blatant resting by sitting up and picking up the pace as he makes a comeback. Massive Chokeslam to Henry (who legit bounces on impact lol), but it only gets The Undertaker a two count!

As Henry regains control again, he makes a dumb move of climbing the ropes with Undertaker in the corner, and gets a fucking HUGE and rather epic looking Last Ride for his troubles! 3 count and it’s over.

Well, it’s not a great match by any means. It’s just too fucking SLOW. Henry was slower here than I ever remember him being, and he was constantly taking rests in between his offence. And given his size, it limited The Undertaker’s offence too, and with all the factors mixed together, we got a rather slow, rather dull match. Wouldn’t call it fucking horrible or terrible or anything, but it sure as hell isn’t something I would choose to watch again.

Rating: *


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My favorite Taker return is probably Survivor Series 2005. If you saw the poster and the promos, they really made it seem like he was coming back as "VINTAGE" Undertaker with the gloves and shit. When he came back out of the casket and proceeded to fuck shit up as a segway from RAW/SD into Taker-Orton : The Final Chapter , it was one of the more brilliant transitions from feud to feud that I've ever seen. Another reason why Survivor Series 2005 is one of my favorite PPVs ever, because it has one of my favorite main events and PPV endings ever.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Finlay March 9th, 2007- ****

And it's a high **** at that. High as in highest match at that rating. Fucking awesome match with some amazing rib work by Finlay, and just as good selling by Taker. Hornswoggle had his spots too, like running from Taker and then him getting side-kicked by Taker was awesome. Standard Taker match ending with Chokeslam into the tombstone, but it's all good. Oh, and Taker's scream when he caught Finlay coming off the apron... epic!

Even with the caliber of talent, I didn't think they'd pull off such an awesome TV match. Any other year and it probably would've been MOTY, but it came in the year of HBK/Cena's Raw match. I also put Punk/Morrison ECW Title match above it, but it comes in at a cool third. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The best thing that can possibly come out of the terrible year long reign is that Punk doesn't get the WM main event. They already made a terrible mistake with the trainwreck that was MIZ main eventing Mania, they shouldn't do it again with an undeserving fuck like Punk.

2007 despite being ruined by all the injuries, bad bookings and the departure of the GOAT, still has a lot of great matches to look back at and enjoy. HBK, Undertaker and Cena all had great years despite being away several months due to injury each. Orton also was on fire whenever he was given something good to work with. Oh, and Batista had a good year too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The best thing that can possibly come out of the terrible year long reign is that Punk doesn't get the WM main event. They already made a terrible mistake with the trainwreck that was MIZ main eventing Mania, they shouldn't do it again with an undeserving fuck like Punk.


Comparing Punk with MIZ is laughable.

Honestly though i see (obviously) you do not like Punk but i don't think i've ever seen a reason from yourself as to why? I get people who don't like certain characters (MIZ) but you seem to flat out hate the Punker.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> The best thing that can possibly come out of the terrible year long reign is that Punk doesn't get the WM main event. They already made a terrible mistake with the trainwreck that was MIZ main eventing Mania, they shouldn't do it again with an undeserving fuck like Punk.


Looks like you're being quite biased. How does a guy who has worked his ass off persistently since he was just a kid... paying his dues in the indys and constantly evolving to keep his material "fresh" not deserve success? The Miz is the same boring shit he was when he entered the WWE. Some asshole rich kid from MTV who just keeps repeating lame mom jokes and how awesome he is. Everything he has ever said is simple and rehashed junk. He hasn't changed anything about his dull in-ring style and to say that Punk vs. Cena in the main event of Wrestlemania would be the same as Miz vs. Cena has to be one of the worst things I've seen anyone post on here.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Comparing Punk with MIZ is laughable.
> 
> Honestly though i see (obviously) you do not like Punk but i don't think i've ever seen a reason from yourself as to why? I get people who don't like certain characters (MIZ) but you seem to flat out hate the Punker.





NO! said:


> Looks like you're being quite biased. How does a guy who has worked his ass off persistently since he was just a kid... paying his dues in the indys and constantly evolving to keep his material "fresh" not deserve success? The Miz is the same boring shit he was when he entered the WWE. Some asshole rich kid from MTV who just keeps repeating lame mom jokes and how awesome he is. Everything he has ever said is simple and rehashed junk. He hasn't changed anything about his dull in-ring style and to say that Punk vs. Cena in the main event of Wrestlemania would be the same as Miz vs. Cena has to be one of the worst things I've seen anyone post on here.


I did not compare Miz with Punk, though. My point was that the main event of WM is very prestigious and only people who truly have the talent deserve it. In my opinion, Punk doesn't have that just like Miz doesn't even if Punk is way ahead in the ring.

I mean look at some of the names who have main evented WM: Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Undertaker, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Randy Orton. And to go from that aaaaaaalllllllll the way to... The Miz and CM Punk is depressing.

As to why I dislike Punk, I've explained it many times before but I'll do it in the most brief way again. I just think he's overrated hype that is nowhere near as good as made out to be. Sloppy ring work, awful look, one dimensional promos and I just don't see anything in him that makes me care about him other than when he's shoved down my throat and handed the luxury of exploring behind the scenes stuff. I mean I can't even bring myself to care about The Rock right now as WWE Champion just because he's feuding with this dull motherfucker. (don't let my sig fool you) No matter how much they disappointed with some of the nonsense during the Cena/Rock feud, I always came back, excited for their segments every week. Now, I barely keep up with Raw and SD regardless of The Rock's presence and Punk is one of the biggest reasons why.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Do you know what sloppy means though? his timing and execution is impeccable.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk's name belongs in the same vein of the main event as Orton, Benoit, and Jericho. Miz is out of place though, I'd agree with that.

It's unfortunate you've allowed your hate of Punk to get to such high levels it's causing you to not enjoy Rock either. I mean even Rock316AE is simply no-selling Punk in the feud, and hell, he's been no-selling Punk for months to the point I forget at times he hates Punk, and even question if he really does. I can't tell you to enjoy Punk/Rock if you don't, and you have every right to post to your heart's content how much Punk sucks to you, but let me ask, what are you accomplishing by doing so at this point? Everyone knows you hate Punk, it's no secret anymore. You don't enjoy him, so why post about him? I know you're better than trolls like Hawksea, or is that what this is? A constant troll effort? I'm all for good trolling as much of the next guy, but when it's on the same subject seemingly every single day of every week, it gets tiring.

But like I said, you're of course free to hate Punk all you want, but once again, what are you trying to accomplish by doing so?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm not enjoying Rock... because he's The Rock . Seriously, guy has been shit in every match and every appearance since his return in 2011. I'm expecting his reign to be one of the worst in modern history. One bad match so far when he won the title, a bunch of awful promos, and I don't expect his EC match with Punk to be good, and if he's against Cena one on one at WM that has almost zero chance of being good too. :|


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I did not compare Miz with Punk, though. My point was that the main event of WM is very prestigious and only people who truly have the talent deserve it. In my opinion, Punk doesn't have that just like Miz doesn't even if Punk is way ahead in the ring.
> 
> I mean look at some of the names who have main evented WM: Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Undertaker, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Randy Orton. And to go from that aaaaaaalllllllll the way to... The Miz and CM Punk is depressing.
> 
> As to why I dislike Punk, I've explained it many times before but I'll do it in the most brief way again. I just think he's overrated hype that is nowhere near as good as made out to be. Sloppy ring work, awful look, one dimensional promos and I just don't see anything in him that makes me care about him other than when he's shoved down my throat and handed the luxury of exploring behind the scenes stuff. I mean I can't even bring myself to care about The Rock right now as WWE Champion just because he's feuding with this dull motherfucker. (don't let my sig fool you) No matter how much they disappointed with some of the nonsense during the Cena/Rock feud, I always came back, excited for their segments every week. Now, I barely keep up with Raw and SD regardless of The Rock's presence and Punk is one of the biggest reasons why.


Why are you blaming the performers for your misery of the current product. Blame the creative team, Vince McMahon, Kevin Dunn, etc because they are in charge of who gets pushed, determine the length of title reigns and determine what people say in their promos. 

Plus the reason why Punk is being "shoved down your throat" is because Punk is currently one of WWE's biggest money makers especially in merchandise. That's what promoters of all kind do. It would be more surprising if promoters doesn't "shove a top star down people throats."

Plus. don't bring your personal animosities into this thread. Your last couple of posts are not needed in this thread as it could ruin this thread.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk is the best overall talent in the company. Calling him overrated is one thing but I can't fathom the notion that the guy isn't talented.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

NO! said:


> Do you know what sloppy means though? his timing and execution is impeccable.


Of course I do. I just don't like his offense. He doesn't have an organized wrestling style and I prefer the more clean styles. I mean, what is he? A high-flyer, a technician or a brawler? Or based on his finisher, a power wrestler? You understand what I mean? There can be instances where more than one type of wrestling style is meshed to perfection like Benoit (technique, power and speed plus flawless diving maneuvers) and Lesnar (power, agility and technician) but with Punk, it's done so sloppily, it makes it a less pleasant experience than I'd like for somebody who's mixing styles together. Another thing I don't like is his execution of certain moves. The Elbow Drop and Suicide Dive for instance. He is on point when it comes to selling and executing non-complex submission moves, though.

I still give him credit when it's due. For instance, I enjoyed the Rock match whereas most have bashed the fuck out of it in this thread.

And while we're on the topic of sloppy, I consider Cena the same with an undecided moveset where he may stick to his 5 moves of doom one match and bring out a long arsenal of other moves in a bigger match. In Cena's case, he usually REALLY brings it when it's time for it, though. So it's motivation that holds him back whereas with Punk, he simply is not my cup of tea but can still be enjoyable. It's like Cal with The Rock.

EDIT:



> Punk's name belongs in the same vein of the main event as Orton, Benoit, and Jericho. Miz is out of place though, I'd agree with that.
> 
> It's unfortunate you've allowed your hate of Punk to get to such high levels it's causing you to not enjoy Rock either. I mean even Rock316AE is simply no-selling Punk in the feud, and hell, he's been no-selling Punk for months to the point I forget at times he hates Punk, and even question if he really does. I can't tell you to enjoy Punk/Rock if you don't, and you have every right to post to your heart's content how much Punk sucks to you, but let me ask, what are you accomplishing by doing so at this point? Everyone knows you hate Punk, it's no secret anymore. You don't enjoy him, so why post about him? I know you're better than trolls like Hawksea, or is that what this is? A constant troll effort? I'm all for good trolling as much of the next guy, but when it's on the same subject seemingly every single day of every week, it gets tiring.
> 
> But like I said, you're of course free to hate Punk all you want, but once again, what are you trying to accomplish by doing so?


Punk's name in the same vein as Benoit... lol. But that's not the discussion here so I'll skip that.

For the rest of your post, I'm not trying to accomplish anything, really. It's just that Punk is such a focal point that it's hard to avoid talking about him or becoming a broken record. I mean, I don't like Zack Ryder but he's so irrelevant that I wont be surprised if most don't even realize that one thing about me. I will try to avoid talking about him in the future, though. Don't know what keeps me going but I just might start no-selling him. That sounds like a great idea and I'll try not to fall into the trap. Thankfully, I've started avoiding Punk topics a bit more frequently as I used to even lurk threads about his interviews and shit.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I remember when I used to hate Orton on a similair level. What a waste of energy that was. :lol

Re-watching the Chambers:

NYR05 - ****3/4
SS02 - ****1/2
SD11 - ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 chambers:

1) SVS 2002
2) NYR 2005
3) WHC Chamber 2009
4) WHC Chamber 2011
5) WHC Chamber 2010

Also looking at some ratings for last year's chamber matches, I think I'm higher than anyone. Both get ***1/4 from me on last watch, though I hold the SD one slightly higher due to the awesomeness of Barrett/Bryan and how over Santino was and how much the crowd popped when he hit the cobra. Incredible how a jobber could do that.



> Punk's name in the same vein as Benoit... lol. But that's not the discussion here so I'll skip that.


Sure, you could even say Punk has surpassed Benoit as far as all-around goes, though Benoit's much better in the ring.

And while I get that Punk is very relevant and that would make a hater's blood boil and makes it hard for them to ignore him, the best way to attack something you hate is to not acknowledge it when it comes to WWE. Cena becoming as big as he is is just as much due to the hate he gets from adults as opposed to the love he gets from kids. It's locked him in as a controversial figure in WWE for all-time, and I'm sure the Cena hate only fuels those that like him to like him even more.

I mean, if the amount of people who dislike a guy like... say... Barrett (as it appears on this forum) would acknowledge it at every WWE event, WWE wouldn't have much of a choice but to push him. Because the crowd remains silent for him, WWE can continue ignoring him and could release him any day and nobody would care.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Wrestlemania XXIV*

JBL/Finlay ***1/2
MITB - ****1/4
Batista/Umaga - **
Kane/Chavo - N/A
HBK/Flair - ****
Divas - N/A
Orton/Cena/HHH - ***1/2
Mayweather/Show - ***1/2
Edge/Taker - ****1/2

One of the best overall shows ever. Great opener, awesome spotfest, an emotional retirement match, surprising triple threat for the WWE title (no one thought Orton was going to win), the GOAT celebrity match, and a fantastic main event to top it off.

I would like to watch this show again at some point in the near future. 

Also, this show has what I think is one of the best promos ever. Edge was a master on the mic, but he killed it in his backstage interview before his match with The Undertaker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Edge promo is amazing. Might be my favorite backstage pre-match promo ever tbh, or one of at least.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Great promo. I remember being surprised that the Edge/Taker match was going on last. I think most people thought HHH/Cena/Orton would main event, but it turned out to be a good decision. Great match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The reason Taker/Edge main evented is because of the "fans go home happy" rule. They wouldn't have the triple threat close the show as Orton, the heel, walked out the winner. Of course that's not a rule that always stays as shown two years ago with The Miz beating Cena but there was The Rock to stand tall as the final sight of the show.



The Rawk said:


> Sure, you could even say Punk has surpassed Benoit as far as all-around goes, though Benoit's much better in the ring.
> 
> And while I get that Punk is very relevant and that would make a hater's blood boil and makes it hard for them to ignore him, the best way to attack something you hate is to not acknowledge it when it comes to WWE. Cena becoming as big as he is is just as much due to the hate he gets from adults as opposed to the love he gets from kids. It's locked him in as a controversial figure in WWE for all-time, and I'm sure the Cena hate only fuels those that like him to like him even more.
> 
> I mean, if the amount of people who dislike a guy like... say... Barrett (as it appears on this forum) would acknowledge it at every WWE event, WWE wouldn't have much of a choice but to push him. Because the crowd remains silent for him, WWE can continue ignoring him and could release him any day and nobody would care.


I disagree. Benoit's WM20 victory and celebration is still far ahead of Punk's entire career. Not to mention other accomplishments like making all time greats (Angle, HHH, HBK, ROCK etc) tap out and being one of only 2 Rumble winners starting at #1. People underestimate Benoit's legacy IMO. It may be because of how WWE has removed him from their history but he still achieved everything one can except the WWE Championship. Plus he's one of the only few to be a triple crown winner in WCW AND WWE. I also don't think number of World Titles makes you bigger. Edge has not surpassed Hogan or Austin just because he has more title reigns to his name for instance.

And you make some very good points on the second paragraph. I admit I used to come across as an overly obsessed troll with Punk at one point but thankfully, it's getting phased out now. I barely post in the ratings thread, I don't raid every topic about him (although I still post in some of them which I'll try to minimize) and I don't make hyperbole statements about him in here or elsewhere.

From this point on, the only acknowledgment he gets from me is when rating PPVs or matches which means mostly in this thread. That and maybe if there's ridiculous threads like "Punk has surpassed HHH".


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> The reason Taker/Edge main evented is because of the "fans go home happy" rule. They wouldn't have the triple threat close the show as Orton, the heel, walked out the winner. Of course that's not a rule that always stays as shown two years ago with The Miz beating Cena but there was The Rock to stand tall as the final sight of the show.


Oh I totally understand that. But _nobody_ thought Orton was walking out with the strap. I think there was a poll result shown just before the match, and about 48% was for Cena, with another 48% for HHH. Which leaves 4% for Orton. I think this came about because most people thought the triple threat was the main event, thus believing a babyface was going to win.

Obviously a load of kids probably voted for their favourites, but still that's a huge difference.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> The reason Taker/Edge main evented is because of the "fans go home happy" rule. They wouldn't have the triple threat close the show as Orton, the heel, walked out the winner. Of course that's not a rule that always stays as shown two years ago with The Miz beating Cena but there was The Rock to stand tall as the final sight of the show.


I don't exactly remember where I read it but I heard Flair/Michaels was suppose to close the show but Ric insisted Taker/Edge main event. I'm not sure if that was a rumor or not. 

Glad it turned out the way it did. Many people felt Taker should have won the title in the main event a year prior so it's cool we got it after another classic at WM 24.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure Undertaker/Edge main evented over the triple threat because it was the bigger match . Was a year in the making, going back to when Edge cashed in on Undertaker after the cage match. Then HIAC where Edge again cost Undertaker the title, and at Armageddon in the triple threat.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think Taker/Edge main evented for Taker getting another main event, as he should've gotten it the year prior against Batista. Plus Flair didn't want the main event spot, Mayweather/Show wasn't main eventing, and it also did allow the WWE Title match to be more unpredictable. They could've closed the show with Randy winning if they really wanted to, much like at WM25 which is how it should've went down.

Also it could be argued as a bigger match, though it is close. Taker was/is the biggest star of that Mania as far as WWE guys go, but the combination of Cena, HHH, and Orton, plus it being on Raw arguably made for a bigger feud and match than Taker/Edge. 



> I disagree. Benoit's WM20 victory and celebration is still far ahead of Punk's entire career. Not to mention other accomplishments like making all time greats (Angle, HHH, HBK, ROCK etc) tap out and being one of only 2 Rumble winners starting at #1. I also don't think number of World Titles makes you bigger. Edge has not surpassed Hogan or Austin just because he has more title reigns to his name for instance.
> 
> And you make some very good points on the second paragraph. I admit I used to come across as an overly obsessed troll with Punk at one point but thankfully, it's getting phased out now. I barely post in the ratings thread, I don't raid every topic about him (although I still post in some of them which I'll try to minimize) and I don't make hyperbole statements about him in here or elsewhere.
> 
> From this point on, the only acknowledgment he gets from me is when rating PPVs or matches which means mostly in this thread. That and maybe if there's ridiculous threads like "Punk has surpassed HHH".


Benoit's celebration with Eddie at WM20 was an incredible moment, and I would put it above anything Punk has, but I think Punk's victory against Cena at MITB 2011 rivals it. Besides that and Benoit's WHC run, he was a lower main-eventer at best, and all around I'd put Punk's run in the main event above Benoit's as far as impact goes (not that either has made that big of an impact), and it was far more entertaining for me. As far as on an all-time GOAT list, Punk's just done more to be higher. Benoit's career was cut-short and it wasn't a main event big-time career anyway. It was a great journey, building up the card and becoming one of if not the best work-horses in wrestling history, and all of it peaking at WM20 with his World Title win, but Punk has a similar career, only his main event run has amounted to more (imo).

To each his own, I don't think Punk is indisputably above Benoit or anything like that, but he's done enough to surpass him, and surpassing Benoit on an all-time list not pure-wrestling based isn't something that's that big to me. Same with Eddie Guerrero, though I'm a huge mark for Eddie's work all around and as an all-around talent I'd put him above Punk... and pretty much everyone, but his career was cut short and it peaked only at his WWE Title win and outside of that run, he was more or less a career mid-carder/lower main eventer. I was a bigger Eddie mark than I was Punk mark as well. I do think it's closer between Eddie and Punk though and I may even be inclined to personally put Eddie above Punk... maybe.

That's my thoughts on that. And yeah, stop hating Punk. Let us marks of his enjoy him while he's still around (if what he implies his true, he may not have as long as us marks would like left).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Idk, I find it hard comparing guys like Benoit, Steamboat, or Bret to "overall total package" guys who may have had better mic skills, personality, drew more money, etc. Their talent and skills in the ring were so fantastic that for me personally it would put them on a higher level then say a Chris Jericho or Punk who are both exceptional in their own right in the ring.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Oh I totally understand that. But _nobody_ thought Orton was walking out with the strap. I think there was a poll result shown just before the match, and about 48% was for Cena, with another 48% for HHH. Which leaves 4% for Orton. I think this came about because most people thought the triple threat was the main event, thus believing a babyface was going to win.
> 
> Obviously a load of kids probably voted for their favourites, but still that's a huge difference.





Clique said:


> I don't exactly remember where I read it but I heard Flair/Michaels was suppose to close the show but Ric insisted Taker/Edge main event. I'm not sure if that was a rumor or not.
> 
> Glad it turned out the way it did. Many people felt Taker should have won the title in the main event a year prior so it's cool we got it after another classic at WM 24.


I don't think it had anything to do with reports. I just figured that's the case since it's a long time tradition and the first time they tried it at WM2000, it turned ugly with trash thrown in the ring.

I think Taker/Batista should have main evented WM23. Not only was it Taker's first title win since 02, he was also the Rumble winner which guarantees a *main event* title shot. But I'm fine with Edge getting his main event in 24 since that was the best spot and Orton got his anyways in the year after.



The Rawk said:


> Benoit's celebration with Eddie at WM20 was an incredible moment, and I would put it above anything Punk has, but I think Punk's victory against Cena at MITB 2011 rivals it. Besides that and Benoit's WHC run, he was a lower main-eventer at best, and all around I'd put Punk's run in the main event above Benoit's as far as impact goes (not that either has made that big of an impact), and it was far more entertaining for me. As far as on an all-time GOAT list, Punk's just done more to be higher. Benoit's career was cut-short and it wasn't a main event big-time career anyway. It was a great journey, building up the card and becoming one of if not the best work-horses in wrestling history, and all of it peaking at WM20 with his World Title win, but Punk has a similar career, only his main event run has amounted to more (imo).
> 
> To each his own, I don't think Punk is indisputably above Benoit or anything like that, but he's done enough to surpass him, and surpassing Benoit on an all-time list not pure-wrestling based isn't something that's that big to me. Same with Eddie Guerrero, though I'm a huge mark for Eddie's work all around and as an all-around talent I'd put him above Punk... and pretty much everyone, but his career was cut short and it peaked only at his WWE Title win and outside of that run, he was more or less a career mid-carder/lower main eventer. I was a bigger Eddie mark than I was Punk mark as well. I do think it's closer between Eddie and Punk though and I may even be inclined to personally put Eddie above Punk... maybe.
> 
> That's my thoughts on that. And yeah, stop hating Punk. Let us marks of his enjoy him while he's still around (if what he implies his true, he may not have as long as us marks would like left).


Are you saying Eddie's career was 'bigger' than Benoit's? Other than the fact that he's remembered fondly while Benoit has become a tragic topic, I don't think Eddie has anything above his buddy (other than mic skills and more charisma). In terms of accomplishments or otherwise. Unless you value the WWE Championship over the WHC that much even though they were equal in 2004 which is why Benoit's victory was such a huge deal for a title that is nothing more than a midcard title to some people today. I'm not gonna continue arguing on the Punk/Benoit topic since it'll turn too much into "GOAT thread" just without the silly "who had the best reaction from this camera angle" nonsense that's been brought up there and we have our own take on what makes you an all-time great. For me, the fact that Benoit is one of, if not _the_, greatest performers of all time already gives him the edge above many, many others. He's in my top 20.

Also, you _had_ to say that last sentence, didn't ya? Now I feel like continuing the Punk hating just to get on you guys' nerves.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Clique said:


> Idk, I find it hard comparing guys like Benoit, Steamboat, or Bret to "overall total package" guys who may have had better mic skills, personality, drew more money, etc. Their talent and skills in the ring were so fantastic that for me personally it would put them on a higher level then say a Chris Jericho or Punk who are both exceptional in their own right in the ring.


It depends on what you want I'd think. If you're a "rasslin' mark", and put the most emphasis on in-ring work when constructing an all-time list, it'd make sense that Benoit and Bret (can't speak too much on Steamboat) would be pretty close to the top of the list. Hell, Bret's in my top 10 of all-time, and I hated his mic work, personality, he was a fairly big superstar and decent draw, but nothing exceptional, and yet I put him in the top 10 but Benoit is in a similar package, yet he'd probably only just make my top 30 if I made a list. The main reason being is also booking. Bret was a main eventer for... what was it? 6-7 years? Benoit was a true "main-eventer" for about 6-7 months. To be as objectionable as possible, I try to put more weight on factors that are more facts than opinion. As an overall talent I'd put Punk leagues above Bret, but he doesn't come close to him on an all-time list for me. As far as subjective traits goes, I've always been more a "mic mark" and so I'll lean more towards those guys if the facts prove to be about even for two guys. I'd much rather watch some great promos/segments than matches, and a guy like Punk has many more than Bret/Benoit combined (imo). 

It's a tough system to figure out an objective GOAT list and impossible to create a perfect one due to so many factors.



> Are you saying Eddie's career was 'bigger' than Benoit's? Other than the fact that he's remembered fondly while Benoit has become a tragic topic, I don't think Eddie has anything above his buddy (other than mic skills and more charisma).


Yes, yes I would.



> Also, you had to say that last sentence, didn't ya? Now I feel like continuing the Punk hating just to get on you guys' nerves.




Oh well, I brought it on myself.


To get off the topic, how about some top 10 lists... actually, may as well tackle Benoit now (WWE-only if possible... just so I can use some of the matches for my list if I've forgotten them).

Here's mine:

1) vs. Angle RR 03 (GMOAT)
2) vs. Jericho RR 01
3) vs. HBK vs. HHH WM20
4) vs. Austin SD 2001
5) vs. Finlay JD 2006
6) MITB WM21
7) vs. HBK vs. HHH BL 2004
8) NYR 05 EC
9) vs. Orton SS 2004
10) vs. Rock FL 2001


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I saw someone briefly comparing Benoit and Eddie, can't be bothered to get into the whole career debate in terms of legacy and impact but I'll go on record that Eddie was a better worker than Benoit and by a fair bit imo. 

Better heel, better face, a better all round performer in terms of the versatility he brought and just someone who I find to better at the subtle attributes than Benoit. Not doing a disservice to Benoit, but aside from bumping and the way he could work a more violent style I'm just not sure he has enough to be a better worker than Eddie. Hard to say who was a better seller. As a heel I found Eddie could emote on a far greater scale in terms of reacting to the changing pace and dynamic within a match and honestly apart from Austin I'm not sure there's a guy in company history who was as good as Eddie in terms of reacting and adjusting his mannerisms to reflect the changing tone of a match. 

As a face he was a tremendous bumper, knew how to emote and time his comebacks impeccably and in my eyes could be seen as equal to Benoit in that department, though I wouldn't begrudge anyone for thinking Benoit was a better seller.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie over Benoit every day.

Not a negative towards Benoit. I'd take Eddie over most workers.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm also on the Eddie>Benoit side, though both would land in my top 5 atm probably.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't see the issue with taking Eddie over Benoit. I'm a far bigger fan of the latter but both were so damn good, it's unbelievable. To be fair, Benoit actually has the edge over Eddie in terms of who he got to work with which is rare for him. That just shows how underutilized both were. Eddie was just starting to be used more to his abilities from 2004 on but Benoit was sadly dropped down the card permanently after his title run was over. I can never understand Vince's mindset of making Benoit a complete midcarder after New Year's Revolution 05. He was one of the few who had the charisma to get people to support him without cutting lengthy promos and even then, he was not that bad on the mic to restrict him from being in feuds that they invest in. Seen far worse mic workers be handed more than him.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

There's a reason people cite him as one of the greatest, sadly too many idiots attribute that to his premature passing and not the body of work and immense talent he displayed over the course of his career. Christ when you actually get down to guys who had most of their success/best body of work in WWE is there anyone better than Eddie? Mysterio is obviously someone that jumps out in terms of consistency and I adore him, but I'd still take Eddie on account of the versatility as a heel and face as well as how he just flourished as a true performer with enough smart and subtle work alongside the charisma and theatrics to play to a crowd and control them.

I'd take him over Austin, Michaels, Cena, Bret, Owen, Hennig, Taker, Finlay, Regal, Orton, Savage, Backlund etc. Guys like Lawler, Flair, Funk & Steamboat who shared tremendous success predominantly outside of WWE I would exclude at this present time, so of guys who people associate as having their best years working for WWE I don't think there's a worker better than Eddie. Just immensely gifted at working as the comedic heel, the pyschotic and violent loony with a sense of structure and character work to make the match gripping and tense instead of cartoony, the heroic babyface to keep people glued to the screen, a gifted and versatile worker constantly adjusting his formula and craft to respond to his positioning on the card, immense main event title worker, underrated and overlooked tag team worker, able to deliver stellar performances in a wide array of settings from Big Show 4/15/04, to JBL Judgement Day '04 to Vengeance '03 vs Benoit to Halloween Havoc '97 vs Mysterio to 2005 GAB and 6/23 vs Mysterio, to NWO '04 vs Lesnar to his work in Japan against Benoit & Liger to basically crafting a top 5 Jericho singles match all by himself at Fall Brawl '97 and delivering a world class performance with 90% of the match stemming from Eddie.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As far as a total package goes, I really don't know if I'd put anyone above Eddie, for the reasons WOOLCOCK described. He could do it all and do it all extremely well. Wrestling, promos, face, and heel. He was incredibly charismatic and natural in any role he played. 

His death shook me up a bit as a 12 year old. I to that point never suffered any close family deaths. Any family who had died I was never close with/never saw, and as sad as it may sound, Eddie's death was definitely the saddest death for me at that point. I was a huge fan and at the time he was probably my third or fourth favorite superstar behind Taker, Orton, and maybe Edge.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd take Guerrero over Benoit by a bit. Honestly I think Benoit has less periods where it looked like he was doing nothing of any note (Eddie from 99-01 was fun at times but really, what did he DO?), and was MAYYYYBE more consistant. But with two really consistent guys with tons of matches you can point to, peak v peak is good talking point and Eddie at his peak is better than Benoit ever was. Benoit also has those match-ups with Malenko and Angle that I fucking hated, and not only because of Malenko, but because of Benoit. Then again I'd probably hate the Eddie/Malenko matches if I watched them again. Guerrero adds way more energy to his matches than Benoit, too. 

Year by year, who I'd take 'n' shit:
Pre-92 I won't really bother with right now.


92: Benoit
93: Probably Eddie.
94: Benoit
95: Benoit
96: Benoit
97: Eddie
98: Benoit
99: Benoit
00: Benoit
01: Benoit
02: Eddie
03: Eddie
04: Shit........I'll give it to Benoit, but....shit......if Eddie wasn't saddled after July he'd have it. He DOES have the worst thing in the history of existence v Angle at SummerSlam, though, and that wasn't just Angle sucking shit.
05: Eddie

That's 9-5 in Benoit's favour which seems like a huge gap, but Eddie in 97, 05 and possibly the first half of 04 is fucking any period of Benoit, easily. If I had to rank all of those years Eddie would have top 2, and maybe even #3 depending on who I choose in 2004. So Eddie would have #1, #2, and #4 of that. Benoit has 06 which I think could have been his best year if he stuck around, and that first half of 07. But fuck, peak Eddie Guerrero fucks with most wrestlers ever; Benoit being one of them. 

It's a toss up and I change my mind now and then, but I'll take Eddie. I doubt if I made a best wrestlers list they'd have a gap of more than five-seven wrestlers between them.


I would take Rey over both of them fwiw.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie is probably the only guy I could say has Taker beat. If you know my thought process on wrestling just a little bit, you'll know enormity of that statement.

It's really all I have to say.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What Eddie did in his last PPV match against Batista was nothing short of amazing. 

I mean, you can point to Batista's matches against Triple H and his matches against the Undertaker and cite them as being Batista's best match ever, but Batista was never carried more than he was that night against Eddie. The way he was playing that "good guy / bad guy" tweener role before his untimely death was a work of art and I've said it before and I'll say it again ; in terms of all around character work inside AND outside of the ring, Eddie was just about to reach his PRIME.

I seriously believe that if Eddie kept going the way he was for another 5 years up to his retirement than he would have been right behind Flair for me, what a beast. His face work was awesome, his heel work was awesome, and his tweener work was awesome. He was kind of like Punk today in the sense that he can play all three pretty damn great (despite what Punk haters may say about him not being able to play a face but I'm not getting into that argument ), although I think Eddie worked face better.

His final series with Rey was some of the most brilliant character work I have ever seen in my years watching wrestling ; with exceptional contests on Smackdown (both the EPIC JUNE MATCH and their final steel cage encounter) and at Judgment Day/The Great American Bash. When I think about it, even though some people may believe he's overrated due to the whole "untimely death" factor ; he could potentially be my WOTY for 2005.

EDIT : I'm also pissed that Rey just won't fucking retire already and stop tarnishing his legendary career with his shitty work as of late. If they took him away from Sin Cara and let him finish his career in a 15-20 minute long singles match against say.... Punk/Cena/Henry he could leave with a HELL of a bang.

Think about it, they could do it at like Summerslam or Survivor Series and have him win number one contendership by fluke or something, and announce it as his last match. That would be fucking SPECIAL, especially if it was HALL OF PAIN HENRY vs REY MYSTERIO in the ultimate underdog vs ultimate monster heel match.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I should stress I am discussing just ring work there, though I do agree promo wise, charisma wise as well as his immense versatility to make any program on the card work makes him a true all round package. Though when I talk about his charisma and versatility I just mean from an in-ring perspective. Such as how he can work a simple match against Big Show and incorporate numerous spots to showcase his intelligence to counteract Show's immesne size, and then how he can go from the loveable and heroic babyface in the Lesnar & JBL programs to the blood thirsty sleazeball in the Mysterio program of 2005 with tremendous ease. He just nails everything I want from an in ring worker. He has the theatrics and grace to be labelled a performer with enough subtle and great intangible attributes to make it intriguing and not cartoony.

Best I can compare is a better Arn Anderson, which is really saying a lot for how much I hold Arn as a true talent. Both could progress from comedy and tomfoolery into serious and dramatic programs/matches with alarming ease and consistency and just had tremendous character work no matter what direction or character they were tasked to make work.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rey has only worked like 2 matches all year and both were good. The tag being really good. He's at the end of his career only he's making it work with what he's got left. 

I'd still take him over half of the WWE roster.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I like how you said he could be a loveable babyface one minute and a bloodthirsty sleazeball the next, as I felt the match with Batista was almost like a "devil on one shoulder angel on the other" type deal with the good inside of Eddie ultimately triumphing his demons.

As a matter of fact, I guess that match could be an allegory to Eddie's life in general.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rey's like Bryan, stuck in a handicapped position where he's not getting great time to work matches and they're in this dull cycle where only one match seems to get good time per week with the rest being sprints featuring an attempt to get as many sequences and counters in as they can. Bryan is repetitive and being stifled in terms of how much of a match he can actually be allowed to work, but does anyone expect him to fail the minute he gets a 15-20 minute PPV match with at minimum a relatively good worker? Rey's the same. Having to work quick sprints with not much to them in terms of substance or the type of match Rey perfected but stick in him in minimum 10 minute matches vs Henry, Bryan, Cesaro, Cena, Sheamus & Big Show and I'm not worrying about the quality of the match.

As for Yeah1993's point about taking Mysterio over Eddie, eh its one of those eternal 'ask me today and its one over the other, ask me next week and its the reverse' kind of deals. Mysterio at his peak was an incredible babyface wrestler with arguably the most consistent week to week performance and matches of any wrestler I've seen, though if I were to be pressed today I'd probably take the versatility of Eddie just ahead of Mysterio. Its probably the greatest toss up of consistency vs versatility and peak performances, but Eddie probably has enough in terms of a jack of all trades worker that I'm huge on atm. Not saying Rey is limited, since the depth in his babyface work is truly sensational but at present he'd just be behind Eddie. Only guy with enough peak years in WWE that I'd consider close to Eddie though.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Career v career Rey smokes everyone on the roster right now. Like, absolutely mutilates them. He'd probably be in my top ten all time, and other than Danielson IDK if I'd put anyone else on the roster in the top 100. Maybe I'm forgetting some guys who are still going.

EDIT - Eddie has heel over Rey, which I think is a plausible factor if you want to say he's better. Rey just has the most consistent (and best) run of anyone in WWE history, though. It's fucking insane how good his matches are how often. It's like 2009 Christian, but with multiple more legit great matches that stretch across an entire decade.


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh, Bryan's situation frustrates me so much not because he's a tag worker, but because they don't even give his tag matches adequate time or reasoning in a sense that he never gets his time to shine due to him being the babyface/tweener who gets beaten down only for Kane to get the hot tag. When he HAS gotten time to shine we get things like the TLC 6 man tag match which he was clearly the star in.

I mean, fuck... Here are the singles matches that Bryan has had on PPV since joining the WWE that have been over 10 minutes long :

- vs Miz @ NOC 10
- vs DOLPH @ BR 10
- vs Barrett @ SS 11
- vs Sheamus @ ER 12
- vs Punk @ OTL 12
- vs Punk @ MITB 12
- vs Kane @ SS 12

Besides the Kane match I'd have all of them @ **** 1/2+*.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll take Eddie over Mysterio. It might not be by a far margin or anything, yet it's still the way I'll go. Mysterio is easily one of the best though. If not being compared next to Eddie he'd probably win 9 times out of 10.

Biggest Little Man set > all the rest for a reason. _(I don't own Eddie's Viva La Raza so CRAP)_


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Glad to see Eddie/Batista getting some love. I saw that match for the first time last week and enjoyed it a lot. For the same reasons too. Eddie just working that "should I cheat? No I shouldn't" Just brilliant. I also loved his performance at the bash against Mysterio. What a dick! And of course his feud with JBL is a top 10 of mine for sure.

From what I've seen, Eddie didn't really start to impress until his return to the WWE in '02. I haven't seen much of it, but from what I've seen of his ECW and WCW work, he was just the typical lower card wrestler. I look at his match against Malenko in ECW (whichever the hell one it was in '95 where the fans seemed more interested in some idiot getting thrown out the arena) and it's hard to believe it's the same Guerrero. The selling is there (he sold the leg work really well) but he was missing that Guerrero flavour. Same thing in WCW.

But his run in WWE from 2002 till his death is just Eddie at his best. He was really starting to shape into the character that we knew and loved. His psychology had developed tremendously. I'd say that his psychology became so complex that an Eddie Guerrero match was an 'acquired taste' It's sad that he died, it really his. Who knew what Guerrero would have been doing all now had he not die. Who knows how the landscape would have been today.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You want the 97-98 run when he's a heel. 1997 Eddy Guerrero is seriously as good a heel as almost anyone in history. I kind of agree with him not feeling like Eddie Fucking Guerrero until then. He had sweet looking offense and sold well, but he needed that flavour to him. I don't think Eddie REALLY had babyface down until 2003.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Career v career Rey smokes everyone on the roster right now. Like, absolutely mutilates them. He'd probably be in my top ten all time, and other than Danielson IDK if I'd put anyone else on the roster in the top 100. Maybe I'm forgetting some guys who are still going.
> 
> EDIT - Eddie has heel over Rey, which I think is a plausible factor if you want to say he's better. Rey just has the most consistent (and best) run of anyone in WWE history, though. It's fucking insane how good his matches are how often. It's like 2009 Christian, but with multiple more legit great matches that stretch across an entire decade.


Yeah its just one of those where they both bring different dynamics and wonderful qualities to their work that its impossible to decide between them. Rey is obviously amazingly consistent and has such a volume of work spanning the undercard, midcard and main event, working guys of all styles and sizes and crafting great matches in clean title matches, blood feuds and general babyface vs heel feuds. He's the best babyface WWE has had on their books, has given numerous guys the best match of their career and just reinvented himself as his body broke down and essentially mastered and crafted the ideal TV formula.

Eddie is obviously far less consistent and for numerous reasons wasn't afforded the same opportunities to showcase his true talent. I think I'm just in a phase where guys like Arn & Eddie are impossible for me to not want to stress as being awesome. Things like Eddie in the Fall Brawl match vs Jericho and how he builds the beginning around him feigning a hair pull to distract the referee so he can pull Jericho's hair to counter a hold. Simple and basic character work but the sort of theatrics and the true essence of a performer that I'm digging so much at present. Give it a few months and I'll be on a babyface kick and the likes of Morton, Duggan, Steamboat, Rhodes and especially Mysterio will become my treasures again when I revisit their best babyface performances over the course of their careers.

Agreed on Rey smoking everyone currently working when it comes to career vs career. Dude is a true phenom (apologies Undertaker fans).


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd certainly have Eddie/Rey/Benoit all in the same tier when it comes to a pure WORK standpoint. Watched the original MITB ladder match the other day and it's so crazy to compare it to other multi man ladder matches due to Benoit's effort in putting a story inside of a match type that has been known for BIG SPOT after BIG SPOT. People say Shelton was the MVP of that match but they would be wrong ; Shelton was just the spot monkey. MITB ONE was Benoit's match.

Best REY performance ? As far as I'm concerned the 05 SD, JD, and GAB matches were EDDIE'S matches.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shelton fucking ruled MITB I dude. If you're not there to make memorable moments, then what would be the point? (he wasn't winning. why not steal the show. And it's pretty obvious what he "psychology" of a 6 man ladder match would be.)


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

You want psychology in a 6 man ladder match? Then looking no further that SD MITB 2010. Best damn MITB match of all time imo.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best Rey performance is rather hard to quantify. Dude built his repotoire and legacy out of delivering week to week a tremendous volume of matches against a variety of styles. Its hard to compare his work in the Finlay series from '06-07, to his work against Tajiri from late '03-04, to the Lesnar & Henry matches he's had compared to working against JBL, Cena, Morrison, Mcintyre, Benoit, Chavo & Eddie.

I wouldn't label the '05 series as an Eddie series, moreso a case of two really gifted performers mixing so well. Eddie obviously brings a sense of pyschology and character work and genuine emotion in the series that is hard to rival, but at the same time its Rey's magnetism and ability to progress from the man who doesn't want to fight his best friend to wrestling like a man possessed that also adds to the series. Its two guys playing off of each other in such mesmerising fashion. A truly all time great babyface up against a truly elite heel worker entering arguably his peak in terms of structure, selling, emotion and character work.

If I had to pick one Rey performance which stands out from the rest...I might pick vs Chavo from Great American Bash '04. Just the way he sold throughout and timed all his comebacks and offence felt like maybe a peak performance from him and whilst Chavo brings a lot to that match I think it might be the best documentation of Rey giving someone as good a match as it turned out. Its not a carryjob in the true sense of the word, but I can't imagine Chavo ever having anything close to that match again from anyone he could have worked with at that time and for me that separates Rey's performance from that of a performance vs Mcintyre, Finlay, Morrison, Cena, Henry, Show, Lesnar, Tajiri etc which are all excellent but could be interchangeable in terms of which rank amongst his finest.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Did Benoit and Rey ever got to work together properly in a singles match environment? I think they have a short TV match in 2002 but nothing else other than tag team/multi-men matches.



KingOfKings said:


> I'd certainly have Eddie/Rey/Benoit all in the same tier when it comes to a pure WORK standpoint. Watched the original MITB ladder match the other day and it's so crazy to compare it to other multi man ladder matches due to Benoit's effort in putting a story inside of a match type that has been known for BIG SPOT after BIG SPOT. People say Shelton was the MVP of that match but they would be wrong ; Shelton was just the spot monkey. MITB ONE was Benoit's match.


I give credit to both. Spots are as important as telling a story for the MITB match and in that role, Shelton is simply unstoppable. I do agree that BENOIT is the MVP for that match. Have to laugh at WWE searching for all of 2 minutes they've found in the match where Benoit is absent on the outside to post it on WWE.com, though. :side:

Even though I acknowledge Eddie as one of the all time greats, I feel that I'm not quite as familiar with him as I should be, specially compared to the rest of this thread. Definitely gonna seek out his pre-WWE work. He was simply amazing at everything and like said, very versatile. Let's compare his match at Judgment Day 2004 then his match from the same PPV a year later. He's playing two COMPLETELY different roles but is equally excellent at both.

On a different note, I finally got around to rewatch this match below.

*Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam 2003*
- I was going to watch this a while ago but didn't get around to it until now. And I have to say this is another match that has improved in my eyes on second watch. Brock plays the monster heel perfectly and his control segments are excellent. Kurt Angle's comeback is equally good as he has the crowd eating out the palm of his hands with every move. I really loved that move he did right before the Ankle Lock when the referee was down. Kind of like a inverted Sleeper with the legs wrapped around the throat. Vince's interference was not necessary but it played up to the crowd getting behind Angle even more as Lesnar desperately tried to reach the ropes in the Ankle Lock but had no choice but to submit in the end. The Angle Slam post-match on Vince to the chair was pretty sweet as well. This one gets bumped by a quarter. ★★★★½


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh and on the whole "Benoit doesn't have charisma" argument ; Benoit's mic skills weren't the best, but he definitely had charisma. His charisma was something I like to call "The BROCK charisma" which is obviously named after Brock fuckin' Lesnar.

I call it the BROCK charisma because when BROCK's music hits, you KNOW somebody's getting fucked up or something big is going to go down. Benoit had this intense look to him, like he was (i know this is going to sound absolutely horrendous given the circumstances but..) a "silent killer" of some sorts. That fucking demonic look on his face when he was hitting those German's and slapping on that crossface was impeccable, and it was a special quality that only a handful of people have. 

Henry has the BROCK charisma as well as being pretty brilliant on the microphone since his HALL OF PAIN days. As a matter of fact I wouldn't stress to say that in terms of his character he might be one of the best overall full time performers in the company alongside Punk and Bryan, I just need to see more of his current run and I hope he stays for a whole.

"THAT'S WHAT I DO!"


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Charisma is too ambiguous. People just falsely attribute it to mic skills or someone's look and presentation. Charisma is having something intangible or magnetic about you or your personality that compels people to watch you. Finlay and Benoit are immensely charismatic through their ring work because you knew your eyes would be glued to watching them. They wrestled such an intense, demanding and physical style and in Finlay's case with a lot of creative freedom that their matches had that inherent ability to make you want to pay attention. Mysterio should never speak into a microphone again but I'll be damned if there are more than 10 guys in the last 25 years that I'd willingly devote all my attention to when the bell rings than him.

Charisma is just enshrined in the same sense as psychology in that people become so pre-occupied with attributing a loose defintion of what it means to them that they forget just how truly ambigous and diverse it can actually be.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lesnar, Benoit, Orton and Mysterio are all charismatic. And none of them would ever deliver an "Austin 3:16" promo. Orton ranges from good to average, Mysterio and Benoit are both serviceable and Lesnar is terrible on the mic. But they have one thing in common: lots of charisma. Which is to prove that this misconception that mic skills=charisma needs to fuck off.

Benoit is the perfect example of having charisma without mic skills. Many people put him in the same category as the Lance Storm's and Dean Malenko's of the world but there's a reason he made it to the top of the mountain and the others didn't. And that's where Benoit's charisma shows. He was able to get people behind him just by displaying his biggest talent to the best of his abilities and along with that, he was also able to show emotions whether it was his intensity and ability to make it believable when he went toe to toe with far bigger competitors or the way he showed just how much the World Title win meant to him at Wrestlemania XX.

Even though he's very good on the mic, I'd add Undertaker to this too. His gimmick doesn't allow him to speak much but he has that charisma which gets him huge reactions as soon as the gong hits and he walks slowly down that ramp or when he sits up.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Can't really add much to the charisma talk except say I agree. If you're able to get a reaction out a crowd, get people to care about you even when you're doing nothing of relevance, you have some level of charisma. All the names mentioned have charisma. On the current roster (besides guys mentioned), you have Punk, Cena, Jericho, Rock, and maybe even Bryan and Sheamus to go with them as well, though Sheamus is a bit of a confusing case. When he wasn't given that much attention, he was very over, but when he started getting focused on and pushed, his reactions dwindled quite a lot, and now since he's been out of the title picture and not the main guy in a feud, his reactions have actually gotten better, like on Raw this week.

Maybe there's more to it than that and there probably is. Charisma I don't think can be simply defined, but in most cases that's how I'd determine it.


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## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Charisma probably is the strangest attribute any wrestler can possess. It's so wildly different from performer to performer, and it's something that's really hard to pin-point, yet it is something that can be developed. Although it's not something that everyone can develop. Some people are born with it and others never find it.

A guy like Lance Storm probably never stood a chance (and even then, I'd argue that he had his moments), yet Benoit steadily developed it over the years. Mark Henry always had some, but it wasn't until his run in '11 that it truly became apparent how charismatic he could be. Eddie always had it but around '97 he started overflowing with charisma. Bryan has become more charismatic in the past couple of years than I thought possible. Punk had it right from the off. While Rock is the obvious go-to example at the moment. 

Is it movement, speech pattern, look, talent, presentation, booking, work-ethic, reputation, legacy, a combination of them all or something completely different? I'll be damned if I know.


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## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I seem to have missed the Benoit/Guerrero discussion, but I'd like just like to throw this out there.

I think Benoit has had far, far more memorable matches than Eddie. Eddie has the edge on Benoit in terms of mic work, but I think Benoit blows him out of the water if you're referring to a pure in-ring standpoint. 

Top 10 Matches of Chris Benoit (WWE Only):

vs. HBK vs. HHH Wrestlemania XX - *****
vs. Austin Smackdown 2001 - ****3/4
vs. HBK vs. HHH Backlash 2004 - ****3/4
vs. Angle Royal Rumble 2003 - ****3/4
vs. Orton Summerslam 2004 - ****1/2
TLC III - ****1/2
Royal Rumble 2004 - ****1/2
w/ Angle vs. Edge and Mysterio No Mercy 2002 - ****1/4
vs. The Rock Fully Loaded 2000 - ****1/4
w/ Jericho vs. HHH and Austin Raw 2001 ****1/4

I would have included MITB I on this list, but since it was a multi-man match and wasn't the winner, I didn't. Either way, ****1/2. Probably forgetting a couple of matches, and no, Jericho/Benoit Royal Rumble 2001 is NOT one of them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How isn't Benoit vs Jericho one of them? That's one of the matches that should be listed if trying to prove Benoit had any sort of edge over Eddie.

I'd take Guerrero vs Mysterio from May of 2005 over most those matches as it is.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Guerrero's heel run :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark: :mark: :mark:

DON'T MAKE ME HURT THEIR DADDY AGAIN

No words do it justice.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eddie's heel turn is one of the best ever. The beating on Rey where the mask was half ripped and Rey's bloody face was half visible and DAT legendary promo explaining his actions... just awesome! DAMMIT, why did Eddie (& Benoit) have to go so soon?



HayleySabin said:


> How isn't Benoit vs Jericho one of them? That's one of the matches that should be listed if trying to prove Benoit had any sort of edge over Eddie.
> 
> I'd take Guerrero vs Mysterio from May of 2005 over most those matches as it is.


Do you mean June? (23/06/05) If it's May, then you would have to be talking about their Judgment Day match.

And yeah, Jericho/Benoit should be among every list when talking about greatest matches of all time.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I really never cared for Benoit much. Eddie on the other hand was just :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Duh, Cody. June. What the hell was I thinking?

Jericho vs Benoit is the best ladder match pumped out by WWF/WWE. So it's easily in the mix for "great match discussions".


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I really enjoyed Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Been about a decade since I last saw that, tbhayley.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Watch it again, tbhayley.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd take Benoit v Finlay over any Eddie match in WWE, but the 6/23/05 Eddie/Rey is close (I could see myself going back and forth - both are my top 2 for WWE in the 2000s regardless) and is better than any other Benoit match in WWE. Benoit's second best WWE match for me is the Austin match on SD, and Eddie's match with JBL at Judgment Day 04 is every bit as good as that.

Also, Lance Storm wasn't good. At anything. I mean he wasn't a good wrestler, as in in-ring worker 'work rate' whatever you want to call it. He just flat out wasn't good at all. No idea why he got this 'technical master of his craft' following or whatever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Watch it again, tbhayley.


Link.



Yeah1993 said:


> I'd take Benoit v Finlay over any Eddie match in WWE, but the 6/23/05 Eddie/Rey is close (I could see myself going back and forth - both are my top 2 for WWE in the 2000s regardless) and is better than any other Benoit match in WWE. Benoit's second best WWE match for me is the Austin match on SD, and Eddie's match with JBL at Judgment Day 04 is every bit as good as that.
> 
> Also, Lance Storm wasn't good. At anything. I mean he wasn't a good wrestler, as in in-ring worker 'work rate' whatever you want to call it. He just flat out wasn't good at all. No idea why he got this 'technical master of his craft' following or whatever.


Which one - Judgment Day or the King of the Ring tournament?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Link.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq7g8x_stone-cold-triple-h-vs-jericho-benoit_sport#.USBPJLX3CKI

And my next Smackdown episode in 06 contains that KOTR match between Finaly/Benoit. :mark:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The last time I tried watching Benoit/Jericho, I fell asleep. Just couldn't get into it. But I have the event so I may try to give it another watch at some point because of the amount of praise it's getting here, but meh. 

The best singles ladder match is Jericho vs. HBK No Mercy


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> I'd certainly have Eddie/Rey/Benoit all in the same tier when it comes to a pure WORK standpoint. Watched the original MITB ladder match the other day and it's so crazy to compare it to other multi man ladder matches due to Benoit's effort in putting a story inside of a match type that has been known for BIG SPOT after BIG SPOT. People say Shelton was the MVP of that match but they would be wrong ; Shelton was just the spot monkey. MITB ONE was Benoit's match.


I thought both men were great but Shelton got so much praise because he wowed the crowd. Why do people have to be so hard on wrestlers on perform spots? Guys like Jeff Hardy, Shelton, and others get so much shit in performing the style that works best for their character and abilities and it's what got the crowd over for them so I never did see the problem with it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq7g8x_stone-cold-triple-h-vs-jericho-benoit_sport#.USBPJLX3CKI
> 
> And my next Smackdown episode in 06 contains that KOTR match between Finaly/Benoit. :mark:


:mark: @ both.

Finlay vs Benoit is amazing. So damn great.



Alim said:


> The last time I tried watching Benoit/Jericho, I fell asleep. Just couldn't get into it. But I have the event so I may try to give it another watch at some point because of the amount of praise it's getting here, but meh.
> 
> The best singles ladder match is Jericho vs. HBK No Mercy


That's pretty much my pick for number 2. Sub out pretty much b/c I can't think of anything else I like more outside of TLC I. Still probably have Jericho vs Michaels over it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Either of the HBK/Razor ladder matches would be decent picks too, but personally I'm not a fan. I understand that what they did in the match was monumental at the time, but going back now and watching it in this day and age where we have seen so many cool things involving ladders in wrestling, it's hard to rate it highly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love em. Great matches.

WrestleMania has Summerslam edged out by a tiny bit. Botched finish at Summerslam does help that, but I do prefer WM overall as it is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> :mark: @ both.
> 
> Finlay vs Benoit is amazing. So damn great.


Excited to press play for that SD episode tomorrow. Gonna finish tonight with one of the 2009 chambers (WWE Title), though.



Clique said:


> I thought both men were great but Shelton got so much praise because he wowed the crowd. Why do people have to be so hard on wrestlers on perform spots? Guys like Jeff Hardy, Shelton, and others get so much shit in performing the style that works best for their character and abilities and it's what got the crowd over for them so I never did see the problem with it.


I agree. I don't understand the hate for "spot monkeys" at all. Specially for Jeff Hardy. It's not like he's Shane McMahon where he's not capable of much more beyond WOW-worthy spots.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That chamber match is pretty good. Nothing more or nothing less. Ending leaves me sour. That's b/c I choose to let it after watching it live.

World Championship chamber from 2009 is excellent though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Ratings for Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/Jericho vs TMPT - ★★★★½



HayleySabin said:


> That chamber match is pretty good. Nothing more or nothing less. Ending leaves me sour. That's b/c I choose to let it after watching it live.
> 
> World Championship chamber from 2009 is excellent though.


Just got finished. I wont try to spoil much with my thoughts since I'm planning to rank all the chambers by tomorrow but I gotta say the finishing stretch was great (though I can understand the frustration because TAKER > HUNTER) and Big Show/Kozlov's part in control was horribly slow and boring.

I've only seen Cena get squashed clean in about a minute with the triple finisher from the other chamber and that was one hell of a surprise. Will watch the whole thing plus Orton/Shane tomorrow.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I should have elaborated on what I meant earlier about MITB and Shelton/Benoit. Shelton was fucking AWESOME in that match and it was probably the GOAT spot performance, but what I meant was that when you have a spotfest that could clock in at ****** , it can be elevated when a guy takes a different take on a multi man ladder match and incorporates aspects like elite selling and psychology like Benoit did. I think every multi man ladder match needs THAT guy who goes out and just flips around and goes HAM to steal the show, but there can also be a guy like Benoit who puts a match ABOVE just being a spotfest.

I LOVE me some Shelton.

***** 3/4* for the 2MPT vs DA CANADIANS RAW TAG, GOAT WWF/WWE TAG & GOAT RAW MATCH IMO .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Shelton Benjamin is the KING of post-Attitude Era spotfests. It would be sweet if he returned in time for MITB.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched HBK-Flair again....

Well THAT certainly was emotional. :flair


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Just watched HBK-Flair again....
> 
> Well THAT certainly was emotional. :flair


Great match and the only one on that card to have that wrestlemania feel to it. I still hate how they stuck it in the middle of the card when it should have closed the show, Flair deserved to go out closing the show after the career that he has had having it in the middle of the card made the rest of the show feel flat and worthless. One of the worst card placements ever.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Just watched HBK-Flair again....
> 
> Well THAT certainly was emotional. :flair


Top 10 favourite match ever :flair2

Don't be surprised if its placed highly on my Mania countdown. 

From a few pages back KOK, someone else finally agrees with me that Cena/HBK WM23 is one of the best main events in Mania history. Another one of my top 10 favourites, that video package. Hold on tight because the heartbreak kid is gonna take you to the top of the mountain :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Flair and Michaels has since come out and said that the Flair-HBK match as supposed to go on last but Flair thought that there should be an emphasis on titles since they are the most important thing in the business. The original plan was for Mania to end with a close up of Flair's robe and boots, signalling the end of the greatest career in wrestling history (I'm guessing GAME had something to do with this lan being concocted), but Ric would have nothing of it.

Gee, I wish SOME OTHER PERFORMERS were like that. Thankfully we get to see Mania end with Cena holding the WWE Championship above his head with that typical troll smile on his face this year, which is far above the alternative of Rock ending Mania on top for the THIRD FUCKING YEAR IN A ROW.

I can't believe I'm actually looking forward to Mania ending with CENA on top of the fucking world once again. This is what ROCK has driven me to... MADNESS.

EDIT : YESSSSSSSSSSS HBK-CENA FROM MANIA XXIII. When I get the COUNTDOWN cranking in a few days once I finish these last 4 Manias, it's going to be rather unorthodox to have HBK-Cena ranked where I probably will. I STILL HAVE HBK-TAKER from Manias XXV/XXVI left.

MY GAME PLAN ? TO BE.... THE MAN :flair2


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I take offence at Flair vs Shawn being the only truly Wrestlemania moment at 24

Edge vs Taker was epic. Huge main event. Made me a real Edge fan too.

Taker closed out the show and he did it superbly


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

WWF Over the Edge 1998 review

Really cool video package to start off the PP highlighting the Austin/Dude Love/McMahon storyline.

Match 1: DoA vs. LoD 2000 1/2*
Man, DoA sure did suck. Just a boring match, LoD couldn't do much to make it any better, DoA's offence was just so crappy. One of them misses a shitty looking elbow drop that probably would've missed even if Hawk didn't move. They seem to mistime the finish with Droz's interference and it just seems awkward. Lucky it doesn't last too long, it's a total dud match and I honestly can't wait for the DoA to disappear so they can stop facing the LoD over and over and over again.

Match 2: Jeff Jarrett vs. Steve Blackman **
There is nothing bad about this match, it's just not very interesting

Match 3: Sable vs. Marc Mero 
Haha, Mero is such a dick. Won't give it a rating, there were no expectations for this match from me, it was just an entertaining segment really.

Match 4: Kaientai vs. Bradshaw & Taka Michinoku 3-on-2 handicap match ***
This was fun, Kaientai work fairly well together. The finish was okay. Bradshaw was in the ring taking out the other two members of Kaientai while Togo hit Taka with a top rope senton and pinned him. The extra man advantage helps them get the win.

Match 5: Farooq vs. The Rock **
Pretty meh. Doesn't last long, but nothing bad here either. Rock gets a dirty pin with his feet on the ropes. Farooq proceeds to give him a couple of piledrivers. The Nation come out to attack him, then DX come out to drive away the Nation.

Match 6: Vader vs. Kane. **
Apparently this is Mask vs. Mask, but I don't remember that being announced on Raw, unless I just wasn't paying attention. This is okay for what it is. Nothing good, but again nothing terrible. Kane hits a tombstone for the win. I can understand having the match to tease Kane losing his mask, but it's not as if you couldn't tell what Vader looked like with the mask on anyway. Vader then calls himself a 'big fat piece of shit.' That caught me off guard.

Michael Cole is out and the honour Mad Dog Vachon and The Crusher. Lawler gets involved, tries to take the wooden leg of Vachon but Crusher punches him a couple of times. This went on for a little too long but it was an entertaining segment otherwise.

Match 7: The New Age Outlaws & Triple H vs. Kama, D-Lo & Owen Hart **1/2
This match barely held my interest at all to be honest. The finish was alright though with Owen hitting the pedigree on Triple H, to finally get a win over him.

They take their time giving long introductions for Patterson, Brisco and McMahon. Lots of ass-kissing, it's pretty funny. Patterson gives a good intro for Dude Love as well and he comes out looking good and with a suit jacket on. Patterson then runs Stone Cold down and refuses to introduce him. This whole segment took a good 10 minutes but I thought it was pretty fun to watch.

Match 8: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Dude Love ****1/2
This is a classic here. It's a great brawl and it's wild as hell. I love how they change the rules as they go. Having Undertaker out there as an enforcer was a good idea so they could have a somewhat fair match where McMahon was forced to call it properly. It doesn't feel overbooked. Everything felt like it had a purpose, everything that happened had a reason behind it. Most of all it's just such an entertaining match to watch. Foley and Austin worked their asses off for this match. They performed really well and made each other look great. It's also great to see Vince and the stooges beginning to be such pricks. The match, the angle, the characters are all just fantastic and it's nothing like anything I've seen before from 96 onwards. It all seems very original.

Overall, this is an okay show, but nothing more. The excellent main event saves it from being bad. Everything on the under card is just so mediocre, it's a shame really. Go out of your way to watch the main event, don't bother with the rest.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gonna watch Taker-Edge first thing tomorrow as I'm tired as fuck, then probably tomorrow after EC I'll watch most of XXV before the main event puts me to sleep with how god awful it is. To think that there was a point in my life that I defended HHH-Orton and said it was a decent match .

If Taker-Edge is as good as I originally remember then it should have absolutely no trouble cracking my top 15-20 at this point. Three of my top my five are basically already set in stone at this point as I can't see more than two matches able to pass either of them, even though there's an outside shot at one or two other matches potentially making the top five but that's if I REALLY bring shit down on a rewatch.

Can't wait to see how the final tenth of this top 50 Wrestlemania matches in history pans out, as well as the battles for WORST and BEST Manias, underrated matches, overrated matches, MR. WRESTLEMANIA, and MR. GETTHEFUCKAWAYFROMWRESTLEMANIA.


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Redead said:


> I take offence at Flair vs Shawn being the only truly Wrestlemania moment at 24
> 
> Edge vs Taker was epic. Huge main event. Made me a real Edge fan too.
> 
> Taker closed out the show and he did it superbly


I haven't watched the show in years so I cant remember much about the match it's self apart from Undertaker posing with the title as the show goes of the air like but for me I don't think I'll look back at the moment in say ten years and think to myself thats what makes Wrestlemania what it is today.

It's not a moment like Hogan slamming Andre or Rock and Hogan standing in the same ring with a red hot crowd or Eddie and Chris both holding world titles at WM20 those are the sort of moments I'll look back on know that was a great moment. and for me Flair and Shawn fits into that group and nothing else on that card does.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Edge is pretty damn great from WrestleMania. Such a wonderful event. I'm a big fan. Even if I don't think the MITB is as great as some think it is on here. Punk wins, so it deserves a bit of praise from myself.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

did you watch the match CODY?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. I will tomorrow while I wait for Elimination Chamber to happen. I promise. 

I was too busy watching old school '97 RAW's.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Boo-urns. 

I might download some wwf from 1997. whats some matches to look out for?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Anything with Undertaker IMO.

Austin too considering he really was the hottest guy around that year. Vader vs Shamrock from A Cold Day In Hell. Foley vs HHH from KOTR is an underrated match. Canadian Stampede is a great PPV. Any random RAWs will be worth your time. A ton of fun. (Y) I was vague on the RAWs since the only match I know that jumps out is Austin & Michaels vs Owen & Smith from May.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I use to only watch RAW because of Austin anyway. He was my no.1. Other then that I think I watched WCW more at the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I flipped back and forth at the time. It was more during 1998 that I knew I took Nitro over RAW.

I had to see Undertaker's moments as champion during '97.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Austin vs Undertaker had me very excited at the time iirc.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

Elimination Chamber Retrospective Ratings

Survivor Series 2002 - ****
Summer Slam 2003 - ** 1/2
New Year's Revolution 2005 - **** 1/4
New Year's Revolution 2006 - **
December to Dismember 2006 - *
Smackdown No Way Out 2008 - *** 1/4
Raw No Way Out 2008 - *** 3/4
Smackdown No Way Out 2009 - ***
Raw No Way Out 2009 - **** 1/2
Raw Elimination Chamber 2010 - ** 3/4
Smackdown Elimination Chamber 2010 - ** 3/4
Smackdown Elimination Chamber 2011 - ****
Raw Elimination Chamber 2011 - ** 3/4
Raw Elimination Chamber - ** 3/4
Smackdown Elimination Chamber - ***

Raw 09 was a huge surprise in my recent watch-through. Mysterio's performance is the best I've seen in an individual Chamber.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did this myself  :


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Top 5 Wrestlemania main events (IMO) :

5- HBK vs Cena - WM 23.
4- Taker vs Edge - WM 24.
3- Austin vs Rock - WM 17.
2- HBK vs HHH vs Benoit - WM 20.
1- Taker vs HBK - WM 26.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> Boo-urns.
> 
> I might download some wwf from 1997. whats some matches to look out for?


HBK/Mankind match from 8/11/97 Raw. Also the 12/29/97 Raw match between HBK/Owen Hart for the WWF Title was good. The tweener and then heel promos HBK cut from the summer of '97 to the end of '97 alone made Raw must see.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Does anyone remember the match between Taker and HHH from Smackdown 2008 ? I thought the in ring work was very good in that match.Now i need to find the match and watch it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

robertdeniro said:


> Does anyone remember the match between Taker and HHH from Smackdown 2008 ? I thought the in ring work was very good in that match.Now i need to find the match and watch it.


Never knew they had a SD match, could you link it here plz if you find it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Could have sworn I didn't like it much, but I reviewed it and it tells me differently:

The Undertaker Vs Triple H – WWE Smackdown 25/10/2008

In just 2 days time, The Undertaker would go to Cyber Sunday to face The Big Show, while HHH, the WWE Champion, would be in a triple threat match to defend his title. Vickie Guerrero, the SD... GM at the time (?) no doubt wanted to make sure both men didn’t enter that PPV 100% as she had issues with both superstars.

They take it slow in the early going, and Undertaker keeps getting the better of The Game. HHH comes out swinging with some big right hands, but loses that battle against the better striker. Interesting to see Undertaker taking HHH down and going after the arm more than usual, and even going for a hammer lock into a half nelson pin attempt. No doubt it was due to the respect Undertaker has for Triple H and knowing that he truly is The Game, and even The Undertaker needs to take him out quickly, especially just 3 days before a big PPV match against the world’s largest athlete.

Undertaker makes a slight mistake, and ends up leg first on the top turnbuckle when HHH moves. HHH tries to go after the leg, but The Undertaker uses his power to fight out of it, and we get a great back and forth sequence between the two for a good 10 minutes or so (pretty much the rest of the match lol), where neither man gains full control, but does enough for a couple of near falls here and there. This whole back and forth stuff makes for a great TV main event, and also keeps both guys strong during the match. After all, HHH is the WWE Champion, and The Undertaker is The Undertaker, and both men are going into big PPV matches in 2 days time, and need to look strong if the people are to get behind them.

We then go into the finisher reversal stuff, until Undertaker finally gets a Last Ride in, and The Big Show shows up to attack the Dead Man and get HHH DQ’d.

The match is pretty good, and has a Big Match feel to it, but other than it being two of the WWE’s biggest stars going at it and coming across as being equals the entire time, there isn’t much to it storytelling wise. Fun to watch, and a good TV main event, and some good build to the PPV by making both guys looks strong, then Big Show and Vladimir looking evil when they show up to interfere (Vlad comes out and attacks HHH once Show is done) when both men are already worn out from the match. Serves its purpose, and did as well as it should have given the circumstances.

Rating: ***


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Onto Raw 2009, jeez a lot of the shows are skip-able, meaning the WHOLE SHOW, however Raw 2008 was much better than i remembered it which is a pleasant surprise. 

Just now onto the Raw episode where Kennedy botches his back suplex on Orton that gets him fired. Orton wasn't happy. MVP was fucking OVER.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hated Raw 09. With a passion as fiery as my red hair. Even went to a taping in November and it was dreadful to see live (live is usually waaaayyy more fun than TV). Thank god SD and ECW were good .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm only in June and i've watched a few matches and promos here and there but fuckk it's awful. D'loading SD now and have ECW 09 on tap :

However i just found a real diamond- June 15th 2009. 3 hour raw.

Mysterio/Jericho :mark:

Edit: WTAF? It was 7 minutes, tops. Great match but these guys can't get just 7 minutes. fuck. This year was awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've downloaded up to August with ECW 09 now. Starting to put them on disc. 2 eps per disc for highest quality, plus they are 720p rips so the quality on disc looks better than standard DVD recordings . I need to keep going with my ECW 09 project. Starting my WM project today so I'll probably have to watch some ECW in between... matches :lmao as I go through the first bunch of really shitty WM events .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I love Wrestlemania but i'd seriously think about skipping the first few bar a very few matches myself 

FUCK. I totally forgot Donald Trump took over Raw in 2009 :argh:


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

The Undertaker Vs Triple H – WWE Smackdown 24/10/2008 

One of the best matches on Smackdown in 2008, and considering the stars involved, it had to be. Wish it had a clean finish.

Well Bret Hart here is a great HHH match and it's not a gimmick match .

Rating: ***3/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't point to that match to show Bret that HHH had a great match .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Without me starting a new thread, anyone know a program to seemingly join 2 avi files together?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well Windows Movie Maker can do it, if you're joining 2 files together in order to put them onto DVD or something (just a guess since I remember you asking for a DVD creator ), then you can use that, join them together and save them to the highest standard you want, burn to DVD then get rid of the file. If for uploading or something, it might not be the best option as the file sizes can be a little big at times, though you can piss about with the settings to get something smaller without losing too much quality. That's just one program anyway, and probably the simplest since you should have it with windows already .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks mate, forgot about Windows Movie Maker, I have converted a match from from a DVD and converted it to avi, but its in two parts so i would like to join em together before uploading it like.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sony Vegas is the best program for stuff like that. Never gets too slow like Movie Maker when you put in large files and it's a lot easier to make your way around when messing with the settings and you have more freedom so if you want to put something up on YouTube and remove the logo to avoid copyright, Vegas gets the job done.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 February PPV matches?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker vs Kurt Angle - No Way Out 2006
Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar - No Way Out 2004
Stone Cold vs Triple H - No Way Out 2001
Randy Orton vs John Cena - No Way Out 2008
Triple H vs Cactus Jack - No Way Out 2000

Not completely sure, though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No Way Out 2004:

Basham Brothers&Shaniqua/Rikishi7Scotty 2 Hotty- *1/2
Noble/Nidia- DUD
WGTT/APA- **
Holly/Rhino- **
Mysterio/Chavo- ***
Angle/Show/Cena- ***1/2
Eddie/Lesnar- ****3/4

Thoughts: The first part was quite awful, but the last three matches were good and very good. The main-event was awesome, one of Brock's best matches and the three way match was surprisingly good, Big Show was really into it.

No Way Out 2006:

Cruiserweight Title Match- **3/4
JBL/Lashley- **
MNM/Hardy&Tatanka- **1/4
Booker/Benoit- ***1/4
Mysterio/Orton- ***
Angle/Undertaker- *****

Thoughts: Well the show had 3 boring matches, 2 good ones and a an excellent one. Booker/Benoit it was nothing special, but it was a good match between the two rivals and Mysterio/Orton was fine, but i wasn't really into it. The opener was watchable and the main-event was a must see match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone likes that Benoit/Booker match more than Rey/Orton? 

I'd struggle to go ** on Benoit/Booker . ****1/4 for Rey/Orton .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rey/Orton never really clicked for me, I dunno why.I always liked the Benoit/Booker matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Onto Raw 2009, jeez a lot of the shows are skip-able, meaning the WHOLE SHOW, however Raw 2008 was much better than i remembered it which is a pleasant surprise.
> 
> Just now onto the Raw episode where Kennedy botches his back suplex on Orton that gets him fired. Orton wasn't happy. MVP was fucking OVER.


I remember having fun with RAW in 2009. Ignoring the shit like Guest Hosts and DX having a long standing angle with Hornswoggle, but I recall some good things sticking out. Mostly Jerishow, Legacy, & Punk for the time he was there.

I need to try and watch every Undertaker match from one of his latter full years. I've watched random matches from his 2007, 2008, & 2009 runs lately so I'd mark to finish all 30+ matches he's had from each year and do a review on the lot. The gems I've rediscovered so far have owned. I knew I'd love the match vs Festus more this time around.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of 2009, I just popped in Wrestlemania XXV. *STARZ ?*

It makes me so depressed to see how good the build to Triple H-Orton actually was, and the match we were given as the pay off to that build. This brings me to another question ; most disappointing match you've ever seen ? Has there even been a match you thought was going to tear the house down, but when it didn't it just PISSED YOU OFF ? Here's a few of mine :

- CM Punk vs The Rock (Royal Rumble 2013) : Don't know why I even expected anything out of ROCK's roided up ass.

- The Undertaker vs Edge (Extreme Rules 2008) : One of the Undertaker's worst PPV matches in a LONG fucking time.

- Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus x2 @ Wrestlemania : FUCK THIS COMPANY.

Eh, that's recent ones off the top of my head.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Wrestlemania 25:

MITB Match- ***
Diva Battle Royale- DUD
Jericho/Steamboat&Piper&Snuka- **1/2
Matt/Jeff- ***1/2
JBL/Rey- DUD
Undertaker/HBK- *****+
Edge/Cena/Show- ***3/4
HHH/Orton- **

Thoughts: This WM, only had 2 great matches. Orton/HHH was a big disspaointment, and the MITB match was full of botches, from what I can remember. And the Divas Battle Royale was the worst WM match of all-time


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just watched Joe/AJ/Daniels from Unbreakable '05 and I honestly think I'd put it over every WWE triple threat other than HBK/HHH/Benoit. Absolutely unreal.

Also watched Shield vs Ryback/Kane/Bryan again and I'm giving it ****1/2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Speaking of 2009, I just popped in Wrestlemania XXV. *STARZ ?*


MITB - ***1/2
Divas Battle Royal - DUD
Jericho vs Legends - **3/4
Jeff vs Matt - ***
JBL vs Mysterio - N/R
Undertaker vs Michaels - *****
Cena vs Show vs Edge - ***1/4
Game vs Orton - 1/2*

Fine show except for the main event.




Pierre McDunk said:


> Just watched Joe/AJ/Daniels from Unbreakable '05 and I honestly think I'd put it over every WWE triple threat other than HBK/HHH/Benoit. Absolutely unreal.


This is gut-wrenching news. Match kind of sucks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> MITB - ***1/2
> Divas Battle Royal - DUD
> Jericho vs Legends - **3/4
> Jeff vs Matt - ***
> ...


You don't like it?! I know it's kinda spotty but I enjoy the hell out of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> You don't like it?! I know it's kinda spotty but I enjoy the hell out of it.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/total.../648235-tnas-most-infamous-match-fallacy.html

It impacted me so much I had to make a thread on it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That MITB match is surprisingly underrated as I've heard from multiple people that it's the worst MITB ladder match there is. That simply can't be true, because the MITB 12 RAW ladder match isn't good at ALL .

This Mania gets shit on SOOOO FUCKING MUCH. Looking half decent thus far.... YES THEY'VE CUT THAT SHITTY FUCKING KID ROCK CONCERT OFF THE DVD VERSION OF THIS. THANK GOD, I remember watching that and saying "why am I a wrestling fan ? WHY?"


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/total.../648235-tnas-most-infamous-match-fallacy.html
> 
> It impacted me so much I had to make a thread on it.


Really good write up. I never really noticed any of the spot calling but I feel like I might next time I watch. :argh:

I can see where you're coming from though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't know why it gets shit on. One bad match and that's the main event. That's a poor way to go out. Especially on the biggest show, but it's far from bad. Divas is tripe only it's the friggin Divas. Nobody cares and everyone expects it to suck.

MITB is good. About the same as the MITB '12 match. Another one I don't understand the hate for. It's quite a bit of fun, I thought.

@Brye - It was such a shocker to go back and watch it only to notice its flaws throughout. I don't enjoy it anymore. All of their other encounters though, those hold up and then some. Love those ones to death.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Meh, it could have something to do with the fact that every single Cena match has been predictable as BALLS since like.... A VERY LONG TIME. Seriously, when was the last Cena match where you didn't call the result from a mile away ? It seems as if they've gone the "Hogan 80s" Route with the way he's been booked in the sense that you can tell what's coming like a YEAR in advance.

OH by the way, that Jericho Mania match should have been Steamboat-Jericho with Flair in Steamboat's corner. I LOVE RODDY, but neither him or that piece of fucking shit Jimmy Snuka really belonged in that match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> OH by the way, that Jericho Mania match should have been Steamboat-Jericho with Flair in Steamboat's corner. I LOVE RODDY, but neither him or that piece of fucking shit Jimmy Snuka really belonged in that match.


Jericho was totally wasted at that Mania. His whole storyline was basically to bring in Mickey Rourke who was promoting 'The Wrestler' at the time. It totally blew, and he should have been in a much bigger match.

I think WM25 is hated on a little much, mostly because of the main event. Even that isn't as bad as people say - it gets a lot of hate because the build up was actually pretty terrific, so people expected a lot more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Meh, it could have something to do with the fact that every single Cena match has been predictable as BALLS since like.... A VERY LONG TIME. Seriously, when was the last Cena match where you didn't call the result from a mile away ? It seems as if they've gone the "Hogan 80s" Route with the way he's been booked in the sense that you can tell what's coming like a YEAR in advance.
> 
> OH by the way, that Jericho Mania match should have been Steamboat-Jericho with Flair in Steamboat's corner. I LOVE RODDY, but neither him or that piece of fucking shit Jimmy Snuka really belonged in that match.


That's true. No doubt that has to be the main reason behind the displeasure of lack of caring with the match.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Jericho was totally wasted at that Mania. His whole storyline was basically to bring in Mickey Rourke who was promoting 'The Wrestler' at the time. It totally blew, and he should have been in a much bigger match.
> 
> I think WM25 is hated on a little much, mostly because of the main event. Even that isn't as bad as people say - it gets a lot of hate because the build up was actually pretty terrific, so people expected a lot more.


Jericho's program was great though. The build for it rocked and the payoff was a fun match. He got his own solo program at WrestleMania. John Cena didn't even get that. He had to share it with Big Show & Edge in the mist of a bad "love triangle" story. 

Triple H vs Orton deserves the hate. A pathetic attempt for a match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Whats everyone thinking about the show tonight?

I think the card is pretty decent. Hope Rock/Punk actually delivers this time and that the 6 man tag and chamber live up to their potential. I don't see myself enjoying Del Rio/Show that much tonight though. I see the SD LMS being the peak.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It looks like it has potential. 3 of the 4 main events do have my interest. Punk vs Rock isn't one of them but here's to hoping it doesn't suck like last time. I have so much faith in Big Show being awesome that i'm actually looking forward to his match vs Del Rio despite disliking (well, mostly the second one) the Last Man Standing matches.

Elimination Chamber should hopefully be great. Same with the 6 man. Divas will blow chunks and if Cesaro owns Miz, I'll credit that as a win.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Jericho's program was great though. The build for it rocked and the payoff was a fun match. He got his own solo program at WrestleMania. John Cena didn't even get that. He had to share it with Big Show & Edge in the mist of a bad "love triangle" story.
> 
> Triple H vs Orton deserves the hate. A pathetic attempt for a match.


Fair point, yes the build up was solid but I'd personally have preferred him in one of the title matches. As you mentioned, the whole Cena/Show/Edge love triangle was pretty bad and I'm sure they could have re-done that whole WHC storyline into something actually decent, perhaps involving Jericho.



Pierre McDunk said:


> Whats everyone thinking about the show tonight?
> 
> I think the card is pretty decent. Hope Rock/Punk actually delivers this time and that the 6 man tag and chamber live up to their potential. I don't see myself enjoying Del Rio/Show that much tonight though. I see the SD LMS being the peak.


I agree - the card is pretty decent. Especially for the PPV before Mania as sometimes it can be a little lacking.

Pretty excited for the Chamber match as it's hard to predict who's winning. And I have a good feeling Punk/Rock II is going to deliver a better match than they did the first time round.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Fair point, yes the build up was solid but I'd personally have preferred him in one of the title matches. As you mentioned, the whole Cena/Show/Edge love triangle was pretty bad and I'm sure they could have re-done that whole WHC storyline into something actually decent, perhaps involving Jericho.


Jericho got his moment come WrestleMania 26. It worked out well in the end. I'm left happy knowing he had his own major program two years straight and won both of them. WrestleMania 24 was the only jip year now that I think about it. Getting crammed in the MITB ladder match is the type of things I want him to usually avoid. Which is why 25's program was more than good from my perspective.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It looks like it has potential. 3 of the 4 main events do have my interest. Punk vs Rock isn't one of them but here's to hoping it doesn't suck like last time. I have so much faith in Big Show being awesome that i'm actually looking forward to his match vs Del Rio despite disliking (well, mostly the second one) the Last Man Standing matches.
> 
> Elimination Chamber should hopefully be great. Same with the 6 man. Divas will blow chunks and if Cesaro owns Miz, I'll credit that as a win.


lmao didn't even realize there was a divas match. I'm so curious who is going to win the chamber. I'd really be cool with anyone but Orton. I still wish the six man tag was in a chamber but it could still be epic, especially if they're gonna put The Shield right up there with the other three.


----------



## Y2Punk (Nov 24, 2009)

Picked up mania 28 on blu ray from hmv for £7.50!!!

Man The Taker trips match gets better every time! 

Re watched 25 today, Taker hbk, as above, was amazing again but as a show, completely under whelming.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've felt POISONED by today's booking because being such a Punk mark, I can't possibly see him Main-Eventing a Wrestlemania until after Rock leaves. If I were to guess how long term booking works, I'd assume that he'll main event either XXXI or XXXII or some shit, and that really pisses me off. He's the guy they've been looking for since Batista was fluctuating in and out of injuries in 2007-onwards, and while he might draw a heavy demographic of people who will stream RAWs and PPVs, he makes them a shit ton of money in merchandise and is legitimately the ONLY reason alot of people watch year round and not just Mania season.

I would have bet that there was probably a Wrestlemania main event in his 5 year contract that he signed prior to MITB 2011. People who hate Punk just have to realize that he's firmy entrenched as the most valuable commodity in the company to VINCE MCMAHON next to John Cena, and he'll be 1A until he or Cena step down from their respective positions, and he'll be ONE if Cena ever needs to go away with an injury for a few months.

I'm gonna do some STARZ! projections for tonight (and predictions) ;

Divas Match : *Who Cares*

The Miz vs Antonio Cesaro : ****

Del Rio vs The Big Show : **** 1/4*

SD Elimination Chamber : ******

The Shield vs John Cena/Sheamus/Ryback : **** 3/4*

CM Punk vs The Rock : ****

I don't give a fuck about the shitty Divas match, the division is horrible and I don't think anybody really cares. Miz vs Cesaro should be decent if they do more of a CESARO showcase and limit Miz's offense, but *Cesaro* takes this one obviously. Del Rio vs Big Show matches just don't click for me like they do for some people but I'm optimistic to see what Show can do in this environment. I'm assuming *Del Rio* wins VIA shenanigans of course and I could potentially see a cash in, but at this point I think they'll just save it for Mania. The only question after this is simple ; what the fuck does Big Show do at Wrestlemania ?

The Smackdown Elimination Chamber is more than likely going to be my MOTY after tonight since it features Danielson, Swagger, Jericho, and MARK "RATINGS" HENRY. I wanna see Henry fuck shit up in the chamber and if he does this is gonna be awesome. I think Bryan and Kane cancel each other out, Orton wouldn't make sense, so it's down to a realistic Henry, Swagger, or Jericho winning. If Ziggler cashes in then they'll have Jericho win, that much is obvious (or he'll cash in AT Mania and make it a triple threat), but if Del Rio wins I think it easily comes down to Swagger and Henry. It would make no sense for Swagger to face off with anybody BUT Del Rio at Wrestlemania so I honestly see them going that route and Henry-Ryback or something. This match is one of the most unpredictable matches we've had in some while, and I'll be rooting for MARK "RATINGS" HENRY but in the end I think that *Jack Swagger* is taking this one for some kind of immigration angle heading into Mania (ridiculous I know).

The Shield vs Vince McMahon Viagra is probably the hardest Cena match to predict in a while because The Shield pretty much NEEDS to win this, and if they don't then we have to realize that THIS is the big payoff match for the Shield angle. Expect Ambrose, Cena, Sheamus, and Rollins to have some big time interactions here that lead to a fucking awesome match. This is the only other match besides the Smackdown Chamber that I see as a potential MOTY candidate when the show is all said and done. I would LOVE to see the Shield go over here but as we all should know by now, this is John Cena's world and we just all happen to be living in it. *Team Cena* takes it to the dismay of EVERYBODY

CM Punk vs The Rock is probably the biggest layup Singles main event since probably .... I have no idea but it's really predictable. The match is probably going to blow hard too, due to Rock's inability to wrestle longer than five minutes without having an asthma attack in the middle of the ring. Why this wasn't just a NO DQ match blows my mind as this could have been GOOD in that case. *Rock OBVIOUSLY wins* and keeps the title setting up the inevitable Rock-Cena II although some sort of shenanigans ensues in this one with either Taker coming to set up Punk-Taker, or Vince Mcmahon restarting the match so that Punk believes he's still Champion heading into Wrestlemania and going as far as to carry the belt around and everything. Yeah, this should be slow, plodding, and boring, but with some decent moments in it.

This show has a TON of fucking potential to be good, especially if the main event can do SOMETHING. The Chamber match and The SHIELD match should both be AWESOME though, I'm counting on that one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> lmao didn't even realize there was a divas match. I'm so curious who is going to win the chamber. I'd really be cool with anyone but Orton. I still wish the six man tag was in a chamber but it could still be epic, especially if they're gonna put The Shield right up there with the other three.


It was glossed over in such jobber fashion on Smackdown I bet nobody heard it but me. :lol

Same here, man. Anyone but Orton and I'll be cool. Although I'm DESPERATELY hoping Jericho wins. All I want for WrestleMania this year is Jericho vs Dolph for the World Championship. Mark Henry winning it would be equally :mark:

I thought it really was going to be in the Chamber. Damn. 6 man in the chamber would have been unreal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally got done with this!

*Chris Benoit vs Finlay (Smackdown 5-5-06) - ★★★★*
- Just awesome. Not as great as I recall their Judgment Day match being but that's not exactly easy to accomplish. Goes for over 20 minutes including commercial time and it's GREAT. Just what you expect from this pairing. Intense, stiff mat-wrestling non-stop with Benoit's overness helping the fans stay interested as opposed to sad cases of two personality-less technicians who put on a clinic and receive silence as result other times. For somebody who needed shoulder surgery and time off, Benoit still had the ability to put on a better match than 99% of the wrestlers ever. Finlay wins with the weapon shenanigans where he distracts the ref with one weapon and using the other to get the upper-hand. Finlay wins and advances to the next KOTR round. I would have loved to see King Benoit, though. 



Pierre McDunk said:


> Whats everyone thinking about the show tonight?
> 
> I think the card is pretty decent. Hope Rock/Punk actually delivers this time and that the 6 man tag and chamber live up to their potential. I don't see myself enjoying Del Rio/Show that much tonight though. I see the SD LMS being the peak.


I'm excited for the chamber match. Don't care for the rest but the other three main matches are bonus to what I care for the most (CHAMBER). I liked Rock/Punk the first time round and I don't know if tonight will be better. If Rock wins, it _can_ be, though.

Also really hope Orton wins. That's what I've been hoping for since Henry got the upper-hand on the go-home SD.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Only chance Punk has of main eventing a Mania is with :austin.


They barely let him main event B ppvs during his title run. Cause we all know who the people want to see :cena


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Any thoughts on Judgement Day 2006 (and the other Smackdown Pay Per Views in 2006 as well)? I'm about to enter the month of May for my Smackdown 2006 project and Judgment Day looks like a solid show, as do the rest of the Smackdown Pay Per Views for that matter.

And for the record, Orton/Mysterio from April 7th, 2006 is ***1/2 for me. Great match but it's not as good as their encounter at No Way Out about two months before. I'll post the full review of that match (and a shit ton of other reviews from the project) sometime tomorrow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FINLAY WON THAT MATCH :mark:

I remember being left with my mouth agape when Benoit was knocked out of the first round.

Judgment Day 2006 is awesome, Goon. Only match I wasn't really crazy about was Booker vs Lashley. Maybe you'll get a kick out of it more.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH vs Orton was beyond dissapointing. Sure, it was a decent wrestling match, but out of that feud, all that batshit insane build up, that's it? A decent at best WRESTLING match with a clean victory for Hunter? No weapons, no Legacy, no McMahon's? Fuck that. Doesn't help that it was boring as hell and that the crowd shitted all over it.

Tonight's show has potential. EC match has me intrigued.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah, I figured as much. With matches like MNM/Londrick, Finlay/Benoit, and JBL/Mysterio, I assumed it was at least a "good" show. I'm especially looking forward to the tag team title match, as I've enjoyed the two matches MNM and London & Kendrick have had on Smackdown so far, especially their match on the Smackdown after Wrestlemania (*** in my book). 

Elimination Chamber could either be really good or really shit. The only match that I feel 100% comfortable in being good would be the Smackdown Elimination Chamber. It's a damn shame that Rey Mysterio had to be replaced but Kane is fine. Big Show/ADR might end up being good but I don't think I'll enjoy it as much as I did their two Last Man Standing matches (have both at ***-***1/4 I think). SHIELD/Cena & Friends could be good as well but it wouldn't shock me if they have the SHIELD get squashed, only to get their heat back tomorrow night. They really should have made it an Elimination Chamber match and give it some sort of a War Games match feel but w/e.

I don't have much faith in Punk/Rock to deliver. Their match at the Rumble was p. bad even before the terrible restart. Hopefully they allow them to do a bit more but I don't have much faith in Rock to deliver a ***+ match. Punk might win the belt back though if Undertaker doesn't do Wrestlemania and we get Punk/Cena/DWAYNE for the WWE Title at Wrestlemania, which would be much better than Cena/Dwayne II.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some JD 06 thoughts (can't seem to find my write up of Undertaker/Khali or Rey/JBL though... huh)

*MNM Vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - WWE Tag Team Titles May 21st - Judgment Day 2006*

This match has been building and building on SD for the last month or so, and its about time they had the big pay off match!

MNM are pretty awesome in this for the very beginning, when Nitro knocks down London, then poses as Mercury takes pictures of him with an invisible camera . He then goes back to the match, where London gets a nice "you look like a moron" spot as revenge. 

The high flying offence of Londrick help them in the early going, but a missed cross body from the ropes allows MNM to do what they do best; control the fucking match. I liked MNM back in 06 when I first watched all of this, but I never loved them like I am now lol. Just another of the billion things I never truly appreciated at the time .

Nice control segment from MNM as they beat down... whoever (I forget lol). As usual, they create openings for Melina to get involved too, which I always like. We get a great false finish when they manage to hit the Snap Shot on Kendrick, but London just manages to break it up and prevent me from being disappointed with how short the match was.

Great little callback spot to their matches building up to this, as Kendrick manages to roll up Nitro, a move that got multiple wins over MNM in the previous weeks. Unfortunately for Kendrick though, Joey distracts the referee and this one is far from over still.

Nitro continues to impress me as a worker and a heel with just about everything he does, particularly when he goes for a cocky cover on Brian, who kicks out, which just pisses Nitro off so he punches him in the face repeatedly .

This is just a real nice Southern Tag match between 4 great workers, a couple of real nice false finishes, good FIP segments, nice builds to the hot tag, and some heel awesomeness from MNM.

Perhaps the best part of this match is one of the false finishes towards the end, where London dropkicks Nitro who is on the apron, and turns the dropkick into a standing moonsault! But wait, it gets better... with Nitro down and unable to break up the count, Melina jumps in the ring and just SCREAMS in the ref's face! :lmao

The finish is great too, with a roll up pin which is again a great call back spot from their previous matches, and we have new champions!!!

Totally fucking loved this match. It got around 15 minutes, and every second of it was at least good. Another match I could totally find a place for lol.

Aftermath is both good and bad, good because its done well, and bad because, well, its the break up of MNM.

*Rating: ***3/4*


*Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day May 21st 2006*

Talked about this before, and I already know its gonna be high on my list, but hey, I'm not passing up the chance to see it again, and I figure I should at least do a review for it too.

This one starts off with perhaps the best collar and elbow tie up ever, which takes them to the outside, where they still refuse to let go lol. Then we get the big stare down where Benoit headbutts Finlay, stares some more, then hits a double leg and goes for the Sharpshooter!

And so begins the awesome mat work that is unparalleled by anything I have seen in WWE not including one of these 2 men.

Finlay fakes an eye injury to gain control of the match, where he levels Benoit with an elbow to the face, and then takes it to the mat again. At one point he starts to slap Benoit in the face, which pisses Benoit off so much he slaps the Irish out of Finlay.

Offence from both men is as manly and gritty and stuff as you would imagine, as everything looks like it legit hurts, and it wouldn't surprise me if it really did lol. The submission hold Finlay has at one point is super awesome, when he pulls on both of Benoit's arms, and pushes his head down with his boot.

Out come the German's as per usual in a Benoit match, and Finlay tries to escape like their match from a couple of weeks ago, only this time he tries to poke Benoit's eye out instead of elbowing his face. Neither worked though lol .

As with all of their matches, its so back and forth all the way through, as they take turns to beat the fuck out of each other in as painful ways as possible.

Finlay smartly targets the neck for the majority of the match, and really steps up his neck offence once Benoit misses a diving headbutt. Love the little touches from Finlay too, which no doubt Andy cums over ( :cal: ), such as Finlay locking in a hammerlock while applying a reverse chin lock.

:lmao at Michael Cole (don't need a reason to, but hell, I'll explain) when he mentions that every part of Finlay's body is a weapon... INCLUDING his Shillelagh . Now... was he making a penis joke there... or just being retarded? Yeah, he was being retarded.

MOAR German's come out later in the match, and this time a combination of elbows and headbutts finally prevent Finlay from taking a third one... but Benoit gets his revenge by hitting the third German... on the outside! Nice payback spot.

Despite having seen this match numerous times already lol, I honestly thought the finish was about to happen then and there, but nope... Finlay is back up and sends Benoit flying through the ropes to the outside.

Oh, wait, looks like the end is near . When Benoit gets back in the ring, the Crossface comes out and Finlay taps. BUT, the Crossface isn't locked in straight away, as in typical Finlay/Benoit fashion, Benoit has to fight to lock in the hold as Finlay does everything he can to avoid it.

Tremendous, fantastic, fucking incredible match. Same rating for it as before, but I probably enjoyed it a little more this time around. Still slightly better than their match on SD a few weeks before.

*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Were JBL/Mysterio and Khali/Taker decent at least? I can imagine JBL/Mysterio being pretty entertaining but seeing as this was JBL's second to last match because of his back(?) injury, it might not have been as good as it could have been.

I can't imagine Khali/Taker being decent, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JBL/Rey was pretty great, at least ***1/2 for that. Undertaker/Khali... well its nothing over * . BUT, Undertaker puts in a great performance, so its watchable from that standpoint, though you'd have to be a big Undertaker fan lol.

Helms/Super Crazy is on the show too, seems like a match I would have watched because I was loving Helms in 06. Angle/Henry could be good but I skipped that because, well they stunk up the joint at the RR. Fuck knows where half my sodding JD 06 review actually went :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Khali was what it was. Nothing OMG terrible, but nothing really worth seeing either. Although, I can slate it as one of Khali's better matches on the front of it meaning something. To hear the collective gasp from the fans after Khali wins is something else.

Mysterio vs JBL is good. Some even find it to be great. No doubt you'll get a kick out of it. Don't sleep on Henry vs Angle or Helms vs Crazy either. The latter being a match that never gets any love. Which is a shame.

Henry vs Angle is really good, Cal. Worth watching. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD how bad do I want to see MARK start off the chamber with somebody like Orton, beat them in less than five minutes, then get bored and rip apart a chamber because "THAT'S WHAT I DO!".

That Henry-Angle match is GOD compared to their shitty Royal Rumble encounter. Mark showed flashes of greatness throughout 2006-2011 but wasn't really able to get consistently great until the company was able to put some faith in him in terms of booking him the right way. It just goes to show you that when a guy has potential and you book him the right way, you're in for something special. His MITB performance is awesome as well.

"*BEAT HIM UP BEAT HIM UP BREAK HIS NECK BREAK HIS NECK*" :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, time to start my WM project. With WM 1. And all those classic matches.

Oh hey, something shiny...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt Borne vs Ricky Steamboat though.

ON PAPER IT SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Have fun Cal. I know I did with those early Wrestlemanias .

.... "Wraps noose around neck"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It barely gets any time. Its fine for what it is though. Maybe ** at best. DAVID SAMMARTINO VS BRUTUS "THE WORST OF ALL TIME NOT NAMED CHAVOE GUERRERO JR" BEEFCAKE is actually the best thing on the show.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

The Tag title match was my pick of the night for Mania I IMO.

I actually thought Sammartino/Beefcake was a total snoozefest. Crowd only cares about who's on the outside.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> This Mania gets shit on SOOOO FUCKING MUCH. Looking half decent thus far.... YES THEY'VE CUT THAT SHITTY FUCKING KID ROCK CONCERT OFF THE DVD VERSION OF THIS. THANK GOD, I remember watching that and saying "why am I a wrestling fan ? WHY?"


Try sitting next to some fucker who didn't make a peep for the entire show until Kid Rock came on and he was up out of his seat in a shot. Kid Rock goes away and he sits back down to be all quiet again. Strange.

The match I'm most looking forward to tonight is Team Cena vs. The Shield, especially if it's in the Chamber itself because that would totally rock. Not really interested in much else other than the SD Chamber. Rock/Punk the first time around didn't grip me all that much and this time around it's been OK but nothing special and not enough to get me feeling really hyped or anything like that. I'll be watching this tomorrow. I suspect that this lot will go over:

Kaitlyn
Cesaro
Henry or Swagger
Shield
Rock
ADR

I guess we can say that the RTWM _officially _officially begins with Raw tomorrow. I imagine we'll get a whole bunch of returns at the same time which would be pretty cool. Trips/Taker/BORK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

David Sammartino vs Brutus Fuckface is a terrible match, and I'm standing by that. Davis has no clue whether or not he wants to wrestle a mid 70s style match or a mid 80s style match while Brutus looks like he has no clue what he's doing. Plus it's also boring and dull as shit. MOTN would definitely be SHEIKY BABY/Volkoff vs the US Express which is average at best.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I absolutely love the fact there's only one chamber on the show and it has Mark Henry in it. No bullshit if he wasn't involved I wouldn't bother watching it. I can't see Swagger going over in the Chamber. I watched SD and on a show where they can the shit out of cheers he still got little reaction in his match. He's getting most of his heat from Dutch Mantel now.

Speaking of SD, what a let down Henry/Orton was. Henry looked really good, but from a kayfabe view looked a little weak. He barely got offense in and boring ass Orton just went all over him. Orton still under-performing. You couldn't have just let Henry beat Orton in five minutes that one week and let him look strong, could you? Shitheads.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Speaking of SD, what a let down Henry/Orton was. Henry looked really good, but from a kayfabe view looked a little weak. He barely got offense in and boring ass Orton just went all over him. Orton still under-performing. You couldn't have just let Henry beat Orton in five minutes that one week and let him look strong, could you? Shitheads.


Great booking decision. Orton has lost enough as it is, let's not overdo it to the cocksuckers who book the shows. And I think Orton did just fine. It's not like the Wade Barrett matches where he does one or two moves and then goes all 5 moves of doom for the win. Under-performing, my ass!

Just hope with Henry getting the upper-hand, Orton walks out the winner. Much love to MIZARK, but it's time Orton gets built back up!

And ROCK's promo was pretty good this week. No random stories or jokes about childish stuff, he just got straight to the point. Skipped the 40 or however many seconds it was when Philip was speaking. I might have to learn to no-sell him like this some more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton was made to look like a total jobber. Of course it was a great booking decision. What was the significance of looking like a chump in getting DQ'ed yet STILL getting owned by Henry following? Jobberville.

If Orton wins tonight it will be more random than this Del Rio push. And nobody will give a damn. Casual sheep are nobodies, that's correct.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If Henry doesn't win the chamber. I'll riot. In my bedroom. TAKE THAT WWE.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The ending was all right, I guess, but I kind of stopped caring after Henry ate so much stuff in the match.

I don't see how Orton looked that much different from the Barrett matches. He had this one moment where he snuck up on Henry and yelled his head off to take Mark down for a clothesline, but other than that it was the same sort of stuff. He's never really been an interesting face worker to me. 

Orton's had enough time on top over the past ten years and doesn't need any more esp at the expense of someone else. Henry got injured during the run of his life and never got a conclusion. If Henry doesn't win I'll be PEESSED. I actually don't know who'll win. We can probably see based on the outcome of WHC match, because they'd want to do face v heel. I guess the chamber goes before it? I think if a face wins the chamber, Show would probably go over, and if a heel wins the chamber, Rio goes over. But then there's Ziggler. Yeah....not a clue who's winning tonight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Orton was made to look like a total jobber. Of course it was a great booking decision. What was the significance of looking like a chump in getting DQ'ed yet STILL getting owned by Henry following? Jobberville.
> 
> If Orton wins tonight it will be more random than this Del Rio push. And nobody will give a damn. Casual sheep are nobodies, that's correct.


Rather be DQed than lose completely clean. With the way these retards have been booking Orton for the last year this is at least an improvement.

I can't believe I'm actually pulling for a Ziggler cash-in. Although then, we might get Jericho to win (not a problem if he had a different opponent) but Orton would be #2 candidate. Favorite match-up still remains Orton vs Big Show, though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WWE burying Orton like this does them no favours really. Had they used him correctly then they could have made a star out of somebody beating him before jobbing him out every week. Now he's like Jericho where getting a win over him means nothing. Love him or hate him, that's just a silly move considering the investment they made in him over the past decade. Now they have nothing to show for it. It's just bad all around. If you're going to demote somebody, at least get all the value out of them that you can before sending them down the card. That's what I would have done.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MEH, Orton's probably just being punished for his fucking joke attitude towards the wellness policy, and it's not like there's anything Orton can do about it besides leave and go to "LOLTNA" where his career will sink into oblivion so he just has to take the shit now in order to be pushed again later. I'm confident he'll have another run or two with the big gold belt before he retires although I'd probably bet my life on him NEVER being the number two guy ever again or WWE Champion.

McMahon loves him some oiled up Orton. It won't be too long before Orton is back in the SD main event scene, probably around Summerslam I would bet which marks the one year anniversary of his suspension. They're showing Orton some tough love.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

No doubt it's his own doing but even still, they really could have given somebody a huge win over Orton with a proper storyline and a big main event match rather than jobbing him out on SD in pointless matches nobody cares about. Missed opportunity if you ask me. 

It's still crazy to think that Orton's only 32 though.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

They always have the get out of bad booking free card with a heel turn for Orton.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> No doubt it's his own doing but even still, they really could have given somebody a huge win over Orton with a proper storyline and a big main event match rather than jobbing him out on SD in pointless matches nobody cares about. Missed opportunity if you ask me.
> 
> It's still crazy to think that Orton's only 32 though.


Yeah, that's been some terrible booking and one of many reasons why WWE has been dead to me since last year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what WWE should have done with the Barrett win. He beat him clean. Instead Wade gets nothing behind it to help elevate him back to the main event and eventually loses a rematch vs Orton. It all reset.

And I'll enjoy being selfish. WWE are too dumb to have Orton job to be at the expense of making another talent look good. Minus Henry, but he isn't new though. Guess it still helps for his return. Having someone who REALLY needs the win though, that's the key. But, since that isn't the case I'll take the knucklehead losing every match he's in and hardly showing up on RAW.

lol @ thinking Orton going heel with magically make bad booking go away. What is it with that myth of him being a heel will make the guy interesting or good again?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The sad thing about the roster today is that only one full time guy has the power to truly make somebody a star and that's Cena. I'm talking about a proper feud with a proper pay off here. You can go over Jericho, Orton, Seamus and Punk and sure, it's a win but it isn't going to make you a star. You need to get that rub from a Cena, Rock, Lesnar, HHH, Taker but these guys are only working with each other because those are the big money matches people want to see. Catch 22 if there ever was one. 

I will say this though, even though Punk hasn't and may not actually beat Rock and go over him, I don't think anybody can say that he hasn't been given a rub of some degree from this program. More people are seeing CM Punk right now than ever before and that's because Rock provides those extra eyeballs. Whether or not they've seen enough of Punk to stick around when Rock isn't there any more remains to be seen. But he's getting some benefit out of all this, even if the end goal may not ultimately be for him to go over.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I honestly can't see Orton being involved in anything significant this year @ Mania, wouldn't be a shocker at all to see him in one of the first three matches on the card again (expecting it honestly, and it's nobody's fault but his own. Come to think of it, the last thing he's done that has actually benefitted ANYBODY has been the Henry program in 2011, what the actual fuck ? He'll probably be in a non-title match with Sheamus or Big Show or somebody but damn... How he has fallen...

ANYWAYS without diving down into more Orton discussion, I'm going to be legitimately upset if Henry doesn't win the chamber match to be honest, because I want SOMETHING to mark for come Wrestlemania when I have to watch rematch after rematch after rematch, so why not be MARK HENRY winning the world heavyweight championship ? He definitely fucking deserves it more than Del Rio as being the most natural monster heel probably in company history 

I'm not counting BROCK now simply because of one thing ; we KNOW he can fuck you up, and that's part of his appeal. He was the UFC HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION FFS!

EDIT : I think part of the brilliance of Punk working with guys like Rock/Taker is the fact that these guys have a limited amount of matches left, and if they're using one of their remaining matches on Punk it speaks VOLUMES on how BIG he has gotten within the company for sure. The fact that he's been able to main event two shows with the ROCK and probably work a streak match with Taker tells me that he's going to be a huge part of the company for quite some time and avoid staying out of the "Orton" problem of going in and out of relevancy.

I obviously don't think Punk is on CENA level, but I think he's as close as anybody on the current roster is going to get to that point TBH. Literally NOBODY ELSE on the roster would be able to take on Taker/Rock/Brock besides Punk and Cena for me to say "Damn that's a match I HAVE to see". Punk has taken it to a level that only a few people get to in the company.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think if the WWE put the right amount of emphasis on it, than a win over guys like Jericho, Sheamus, or even Randy Orton would mean something.

To be ignorant and think only Cena + non regualars = the only credible wins is a bad mindset. I know the booking leaves a lot to be desired atm, but lets not rule how the big names of the company still do mean something right now. If Heath Slater pinned Sheamus, yeah, it would mean something if it was meant to.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The runs of loses he is on would be able to fuel his turn instead hes just upper card guy who beats mid carders every week.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> I think if the WWE put the right amount of emphasis on it, than a win over guys like Jericho, Sheamus, or even Randy Orton would mean something.
> 
> To be ignorant and think only Cena + non regualars = the only credible wins is a bad mindset. I know the booking leaves a lot to be desired atm, but lets not rule how the big names of the company still do mean something right now. If Heath Slater pinned Sheamus, yeah, it would mean something if it was meant to.


I wasn't talking about credible wins though. I was talking about the ability to truly MAKE a star. Slater pinning Seamus is big for him, sure, but it isn't going to make him a star even if they worked a proper feud together. Punk going over Jericho in a Wrestlemania feud did nothing for him. Orton has lost to everybody under the sun recently and they aren't any better than they were before they beat him. Punk doesn't really have anybody we can measure against him fairly but I seriously doubt Slater working with and going over Punk after a lengthy feud would propel him into superstardom. That only comes from working with the legitimate superstars themselves, none of which are on the full time roster barring Cena and even he's taking a hit in the star power department from sheer over-saturation.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sheamus is one of those guys who can be elevated by the part timers. At first I would say "WTF why is Sheamus of all people getting this match", but a few matches against huge names does fucking WONDERS for people (Punk's stock is fucking HIGH right now and is honestly one of the biggest names wrestling has seen in quite some time). I mean I love GAME but why couldn't they do BROCK-Sheamus or something at Mania to give Sheamus the rub in a big time feud ? Somebody ELSE against the Rock besides Cena who doesn't need the rub, and somebody ELSE against Cena ?

I don't know whether it's the fact that there's a lack of legitimate talent to look good against these big names, or that they don't look legitimate because they NEVER get a rub from these big time talents.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's all booking. They could make anyone a star. I don't buy the theory.

Some guys have x-factors. No doubt. But, if the company wanted to put the world on the shoulders of someone terrible like Big E. Langston, they could do it. No doubt he'd have the sheep flock behind him too.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Even if they lose its a level of exposure they would never get with another member of the full time roster including Cena.


The fact there seems to be a clique group of superstars who just come in when its the big time makes everyone who's there full time seem minor league. Even though this feud with Rock has done great things for Punk it gives a feeling of , well its time for the big boys to play now son with Rock/Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I still don't see anyone as a star in the WWE other than Cena from the full-time guys. The last time somebody had this ability to make a loss mean something for his opponent was Orton in 2011. I remember just how strong they booked him up until the Henry feud and that's exactly why Henry benefited big time from going over Orton. At this point, they've hurt Orton's stock (I wish I had the bookers in a dark room tied up so I could torture these poor saps with a taste of their own medicine!) so only Cena can lose and have it mean something for the up & comer who beat him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> *It's all booking. They could make anyone a star. I don't buy the theory.*
> 
> Some guys have x-factors. No doubt. But, if the company wanted to put the world on the shoulders of someone terrible like Big E. Langston, they could do it. No doubt he'd have the sheep flock behind him too.


YEAH, pretty much. I heard a poster on here once upon a time say that the fans control who the number one is (they do, the boos for Cena give Vince a hard on for Cena because he gets the biggest reaction every time) and Vince controls the rest.

Prime example : RYBACK. What does Ryback have that makes him any different from say, Mason Ryan ? He's a TERRIBLE worker, he can't cut a fucking promo to save his life, and he just has this fake intensity about him... I literally have NOTHING positive to say about the guy and his ability (no doubt he seems like a nice guy), yet he's tagging with JOHN CENA on PPV and has gotten a MONSTER push.

If they had kept the title on Punk until Wrestlemania and had to drop it to Sheamus or somebody, Sheamus would be a bigger star than ever because he beat a guy with a 500 plus day reign. Rock winning does NOTHING .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> It's all booking. They could make anyone a star. I don't buy the theory.
> 
> Some guys have x-factors. No doubt. But, if the company wanted to put the world on the shoulders of someone terrible like Big E. Langston, they could do it. No doubt he'd have the sheep flock behind him too.


Star doesn't equate to legit megastar or even superstar. WWE has stars on the roster. They have the Jericho's, Orton's, Seamus' and Punk's on there. These guys are stars but they aren't superstars if that makes sense. I know it may sound silly but I'm trying to differentiate between the two. You can only really get to the next level by working with and preferably beating somebody at the level above you. That's the way it has always worked. Punk and Seamus and Ryback etc can feud with each other until they're blue in the face but they're never going to get any higher than they are without working with those already at that next level. It isn't a theory or something I just made up. It's the way it has always been and the tried and true method of the star making process in WWE. In order to get to the top, you need to work with the guys already there.



BANKSY said:


> Even if they lose its a level of exposure they would never get with another member of the full time roster including Cena.
> 
> 
> The fact there seems to be a clique group of superstars who just come in when its the big time makes everyone who's there full time seem minor league. Even though this feud with Rock has done great things for Punk it gives a feeling of , well its time for the big boys to play now son with Rock/Cena.


This feud with Rock has worked wonders for Punk. He sort of looks like he can hang on a credibility level. That's great and elevates him a notch or two, even though he lost and looks set to lose the feud as a whole. Just an example of somebody getting some measure of elevation through working with a guy above his level credibility wise.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH SHIT HBK VS TAKER IS NEXT :mark:.

I don't ever see Punk going to that upper midcard level ever again *TBHAYLEY*. I think he stays in a consistent main event spot for the rest of his career unlike the likes of Orton, especially now since Punk has reached the level that he currently has.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton's downfall was his wellness issues. Punk shouldn't have that problem so he's good lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No I mean even before that, where post Henry feud Orton was involved in like random matches with Wade Barrett before jobbing to Kane in the second match at Wrestlemania. I think that Punk will be in one of the three/four "featured" Wrestlemania matches until his career is over, barring a serious injury of course.

It was pretty obvious we were headed for an inevitable Sheamus-Orton WHC match at Wrestlemania until RANDY DUN FUCKED IT UP'.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

After Mania 25 Orton was never really _featured _at Mania again. 26 he fought Legacy, 27 he fought Punk, 28 he fought Kane. All mid card matches. He was never really working the big Mania main events so in a way, he didn't have fall to far in that regard. 

With Punk, he's going to get the short end of the stick no matter what if things go the way they've been going the past few years and we keep getting some mixture of Rock/Brock/Cena/HHH/Taker. He's never getting first or even second billing so long as those guys are on the card and he isn't working with one of them. I imagine it to be something similar to Mania 28 which had Rock/Cena then HHH/Taker and then Punk/Jericho as a distant third. If he's lucky he'll get in programs with some of these guys and get the spotlight. Unless that happens though, while he may not be working Kane at Wrestlemania he'll certainly not be working the main event either you know.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I know. If Rock never came back I'd have zero doubts about Punk either main eventing Wrestlemania XXVIII or XXIX TBH, but like I said before, while Punk may not be involved in *THE* main event, I don't think he'll be anywhere worse than say the third biggest match on the card, kind of like it was last year with Jericho. This year when he faces Undertaker he'll be basically tied for the second biggest match on the card and If they're confident enough to put him with Rock AND Taker then I have no doubts about him being in one of the three big matches ever year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Regardless of how far he's fallen. What does Orton _really_ have left to do? He was asked that question in an interview a year or so ago and he said he wanted to close Wrestlemania in proper fashion with a memorable match. He's lucky that he, like Cena, came out right after the Attitude Era which gave him the chance to work with a lot of big names.

And Punk and Orton were both in the third biggest match at WM27. After Taker/HHH and Miz/Cena (featuring ROCK), their match got by far the most amount of _care_ in its build-up and even main evented Raw at one point.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Orton 27 is probably similar to Punk/Jericho from 28. Neither of them were necessarily HUGE matches but they were important midcard matches I guess. It's just a shame that the latter was a WWE title match. If I had to guess I'd say Mania 30 ends up Taker/Cena and Rock/Brock. If that's the case then Punk's getting shafted again unless he works with HHH but even then that match can't compete with the other 2 in terms of star power. If 29 doesn't end up a triple threat with Rock/Cena/Punk the only real opportunity for Punk to truly be THE main event of Wrestlemania is 31 and whatever situation we find ourselves in then. 

I've always thought, at least recently anyways, that Mania went on 2 BIG matches. 

Mania 25 - HHH/Orton & HBK/Taker
Mania 26 - HBK/Taker & Cena/Batista
Mania 27 - HHH/Taker & Rock lol
Mania 28 - Rock/Cena & HHH/Taker

Then there was a third sort of/semi important upper card match and a WHC match to flesh things out.

Mania 25 - Hardy/Hardy & Cena/Edge/Show
Mania 26 - Bret/Vince & Edge/Jericho
Mania 27 - Punk/Orton & fucking Cole/Lawler
Mania 28 - Punk/Jericho & Kane/Orton/DB/Sheamus I don't know

I reckon Punk stays in the second category of matches unless he gets to work with some of the big guns and obviously moves up. His real shot will be at 31 when Rock/Brock etc are all gone. Were Rock/Brock not around though, he'd be in the top group for sure. There's no way he couldn't be.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Meltzer said that WWE plans on promoting the Punk/Undertaker match as the No 2 match at this years WM.

HHH taking back seats to midgets.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just finished watching JBL vs John Cena - New York Parking Lot Brawl - Great American Bash 2008.

Choke2death and I were talking about the match earlier, I brought it up in discussion that I didn't remember that match taking place and I'd never seen it before (even though I remembered their feud at the time), so I searched and found it on YouTube and decided to watch the finish because JBL apparently won the match clean, and I was surprised. So then I thought I'd check out the whole match in it's entirety, and it's a fun unique match, glad I watched it. Quite few entertaining spots you wouldn't see in a standard street fight match, like Cena electrocuting JBL, JBL trying to escape in a car only for Cena to stop him by punching him and pulling him out, like something you would see in GTA. :lol JBL setting a car on a fire with Cena in it, moves on the tops of cars like the neckbreaker JBL did, Cena using a forklift to lift a the car JBL's stuck in from the parking lot to the arena. Another unique thing about this match is for most of it when they're confined to the parking lot - there's no commentary, which is a unique touch, but I would of loved to hear JR calling this match and selling some of their crazy spots. I'd give this a ****3/4* Lots of FUN. 

Oh and if anyone else wants to check out this match, here it is:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Jericho, while a distant third, was no mid-card match, even if it wasn't a true WM-level main event caliber match, while Punk/Orton was an upper mid-card match at best (even with their main eventing of one Raw). There's a considerable difference between the two.

However there's also a considerable difference between Punk/Jericho and Punk/Taker, if that does happen. Despite people being silly and calling it a mid-card match due to the fact almost any Rock and Lesnar matches would be above it as the true two main events, Taker's streak carries enough weight that it's an instant main event level match. Even card-placement isn't a true indicator of main events anymore after they put Taker/HHH on at the start of the second hour last year. Even if it's only the third biggest match of the night behind the apparent Rock/Cena and Lesnar/HHH matches, it's still a WM-main event level match and feud.

So if Punk faces Taker, I think this will be just that, his first true main event-caliber match. If he faces HHH at WM30 and is behind Taker/Cena and Rock/Brock, that's a WM-level main event match as well. Same thing if he faces Austin.

Edit: And if they really wanted to promote and create a truly memorable feud between Taker and Punk, it could believably be the second biggest match of the night, even above Lesnar/HHH II... if they really wanted to. It doesn't really matter which match is number 2 tbh, as Rock/Cena II is going to be the main attraction by far regardless. The only match that would come close to it is Taker/Lesnar, but that doesn't look to be happening.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Rawk said:


> Punk/Jericho, while a distant third, was no mid-card match, even if it wasn't a true WM-level main event caliber match, while Punk/Orton was an upper mid-card match at best (even with their main eventing of one Raw). There's a considerable difference between the two.
> 
> However there's also a considerable difference between Punk/Jericho and Punk/Taker, if that does happen. Despite people being silly and calling it a mid-card match due to the fact almost any Rock and Lesnar matches would be above it as the true two main events, Taker's streak carries enough weight that it's an instant main event level match. Even card-placement isn't a true indicator of main events anymore after they put Taker/HHH on at the start of the second hour last year. Even if it's only the third biggest match of the night behind the apparent Rock/Cena and Lesnar/HHH matches, it's still a WM-main event level match and feud.
> 
> ...


I agree here, excellent post.

Though if Austin did return, whoever he faced he'd be in the main event. He's the biggest star of all time, and that guarantees a WM main event if he came back.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Mania 27 - Punk/Orton & fucking Cole/Lawler


:lmao @ Cole and Lawler. That has to be one of the most biggest waste of TV time feuds ever. It had a lot of great comedy moments and I give WWE credit for turning Cole into such a mega heel that I literally wanted the guy beaten to half death come WM. But really, if it's the fourth biggest match at WRESTLEMANIA, it's just sad.

And I guess Punk is at that level where anything below the actual main event adds nothing to his accomplishments. So up until WM31, no main event for him! 

31 is out of the equation too because Lesnar will still be around by then and most likely take on the streak which means it should main event unless something else happens. (like the awful "AUSTIN RETURNS AND FACES PUNK!!!" scenario) WM30 looks to be Taker/Cena and ROCK/BROCK.



Nostalgia said:


> Just finished watching JBL vs John Cena - New York Parking Lot Brawl - Great American Bash 2008.


Glad you enjoyed it. That match is the definition of fun to me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't know, to me no match gets more fun that Cena vs Del Rio in that Miracle on 34th Street Fight. ***1/4

And I am actually being completely serious here.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I wouldn't go over ** on Cena/Del Rio on Christmas Eve, but it was a fun match. Del Rio throwing the teddy bear and Cena no-selling the devastating effects=MOMENT OF THE YEAR!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I could go ***1/4 because if I enjoyed the hell out of something, how can I possibly give it 2 stars? 2 stars mean it sucked!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think people are underrating WWE's ability to completely suck; I can actually see CM Punk losing a main event spot sometime. Thing is, I don't think he'll stick around to wonder off in the midcard again. He said he was going to leave in 2011 and was full of it, but next time he gets demoted down I could see him actually leaving.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think people are underrating WWE's ability to completely suck; I can actually see CM Punk losing a main event spot sometime. Thing is, I don't think he'll stick around to wonder off in the midcard again. He said he was going to leave in 2011 and was full of it, but next time he gets demoted down I could see him actually leaving.


Good point, but it all depends on the contract. He said he signed it during the MITB 2011 PPV, and since he had already cut 'the promo' by that time and the internet had blown up, it's likely Vince signed him to a long term deal. So even if he wanted to leave, he might be stuck unless there's a clause in there or whatnot.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't care what position on the card Punk is, as long as he's ENTERTAINING. The lowest he can fall in upper midcard and once he continues to entertain in that position the transition to the main event scene is going to be smooth.

Punk has always been shifting from upper midcard to main event. That's just how wrestling works. Heck, even Cena was nothing but a glorified upper midcard act last year (who main evented PPVs )

It's just the nature of the business. Think about it this way. If Cena didn't step down from the title scene, then how would WWE have gotten the chance to test the waters with Ryback and The Shield?

I see nothing wrong with guys going from upper midcard to main event and back. Like I said, it's just how things work in wrestling.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Rawk said:


> I wouldn't go over ** on Cena/Del Rio on Christmas Eve, but it was a fun match.* Del Rio throwing the teddy bear and Cena no-selling the devastating effects=MOMENT OF THE YEAR!*


I just looked this moment up as I missed the Raw from Christmas Eve, and goddamn is that some funny shit! You gotta love the effort Del Rio puts into throwing that teddy bear! :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't know how much longer Punk plans on wrestling. Hasn't he said multiple times that he plans on retiring at 35? That would mean next year. I know alot of wrestlers say shit like that, but Punk seems like someone who actually might mean it. I hope not. I enjoy his matches and think he's probably top 1 or 2 workers in the company over the past year.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

anybody know where you could watch all the old RAW shows? I'm talking from #1 up till now. Even if it's some service you have to pay for; I'm interested. Thanks


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Wait so Punk going off about how his contract was going to run out in 2011 wasn't a work?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Alim said:


> Wait so Punk going off about how his contract was going to run out in 2011 wasn't a work?


No it was all true. He actually signed an extention so that he could compete at MITB 2011. Punk explains it more on his DVD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't believe the idea that he resigned at the night of MITB. Vince always humiliates everyone who's on their way out and no way would he push Punk the way they did with the kayfabe breaking if they weren't sure he would resign.

And only twenty minutes to go. :mark: First PPV I'll watch since MITB 12. Last time it was awful, so I'm hoping we get something better this time around!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't believe the idea that he resigned at the night of MITB. Vince always humiliates everyone who's on their way out and no way would he push Punk the way they did with the kayfabe breaking if they weren't sure he would resign.


Well, Punk had brought WWE back into mainstream spotlight at that time, so Vince was probably pretty desperate for him to re-sign, and was probably pretty confident he would as well. It all seemed pretty legit when various people talked about it on Punk's DVD. During the signing Vince said "you've got me over a barrel here" which I found pretty humorous.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why I think Punk isn't going out of the main event spotlight for a while ; he doesn't seem like the Lesnar "money whore" type , and probably included an opt out in his contract if he didn't like the way shit was going down in terms of his booking. In terms of Wrestlemania XXXI I'm thinking it's actually going to *BE Punk vs Lesnar.* They're going to do it at some point obviously, and Punk can re-invent himself on the dime so why shouldn't it happen ? It's gonna be another dream match of mine come true.

OH BABY, THE WORST SHOW EVER COMING ON NOW .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> That's why I think Punk isn't going out of the main event spotlight for a while ; he doesn't seem like the Lesnar "money whore" type , and probably included an opt out in his contract if he didn't like the way shit was going down in terms of his booking. In terms of Wrestlemania XXXI I'm thinking it's actually going to *BE Punk vs Lesnar.* They're going to do it at some point obviously, and Punk can re-invent himself on the dime so why shouldn't it happen ? It's gonna be another dream match of mine come true.


Thankfully, that's just your wishful fantasy booking. 

If Punk's contract was so luxurious, you'd think he had enough pull to main event over John Laurinaitis. unk2

And Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio opening the show again... I'm just excited for the CHAMBER!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They'd be INSANE to not do Punk-Lesnar if Lesnar's going to be here for TWO YEARS..... Who ELSE would Lesnar face ? .... Orton ? 

The World Jobber Championship up first. Fuck that dull mother fucker Del Rio.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> They'd be INSANE to not do Punk-Lesnar if Lesnar's going to be here for TWO YEARS..... Who ELSE would Lesnar face ? .... Orton ?
> 
> The World Jobber Championship up first. Fuck that dull mother fucker Del Rio.


Nope, Lesnar vs Taker. 

I really hope they do Orton at some point down the line, though. And if Punk/Lesnar happens, it wont be at WM. Maybe SummerSlam but I still don't want it since neither guy have any business being faces.

Del Rio/Show just finished and no Ziggler cash-in. Surprised to say the least. Wont spoil the result but lol @ Del Rio missing that Enziguri that was supposed to hit the thing Ricardo used to distract Show. This was like the modern day version of Orton missing the RKO on Jericho, specially how Del Rio just retried it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk/Lesnar is a must because of the Heyman connection. I'd be extremely surprised if this match doesn't happen over the next two years.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That was a fail. I'm glad CESARO is here to cancel out the complete and total awfulness of that POS Jiz. 

That opener wasn't that special at all. I'm not a fan at all of these Show-Del Rio matches, although a Del Rio win makes it more likely for a *MARK "RATINGS" HENRY* Chamber win which will be a true mark out moment, especially since you'll be getting your wish and Punk will be jobbing again.

Still think SWAGGER takes the chamber though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YAY, it's CHAMBER time! :mark:

Just hope Orton wins and quite frankly, I could easily turn off the show once this is over since this is the main draw for me. lol @ Swagger's new music. Just hope he doesn't win it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*SOMEBODY GON' GET DEY WIG SPLIT!*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck this company.

Mark "Ratings" Henry comes in and makes the match awesome and THIS happens ?!?!?!?!?!

NOPE.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Chamber was good.

Does Swagger V Del Rio just screams WM world title match or what!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What's Henry doing at Mania now then??


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Look fellas, I'm gonna post a full review of everything after the show goes off, but HOLY FUCK that Chamber match was off the charts good. MARK FUCKIN HENRY! So much fun.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lol at people in the PPV thread.

That match OWNED.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I liked the Chamber alot, HENRY made it pretty awesome for me I must say. I'm perfect with my PPV predictions so far, and since I'm normally HORRENDOUS at picking these things it just goes to show how predictably BAD WWE has been lately.

:lol @ people overreacting because they didn't like the result. I don't like the result either but we just saw perhaps our first *****+* WWE match of the year.

Time for DAT SHIELD to get buried.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Awesome Chamber match but FUCK SWAGGER WINNING. They had me excited for every minute of it but what I was afraid of was Swagger winning. FUCK YOU WWE. At least Orton didn't tap out. I almost gave up when Swagger looked like he had the Ankle Lock locked in.

Still a ★★★★ match and MOTY so far.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You should be proud, because I legitimately thought that when Henry threw him into the chamber that he was going to be squashed seconds after that. Where the hell does Orton figure into Wrestlemania now ? I'm thinking a feud with Sheamus but I have no fucking idea how that would even work out.....


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> You should be proud, because I legitimately thought that when Henry threw him into the chamber that he was going to be squashed seconds after that. Where the hell does Orton figure into Wrestlemania now ? I'm thinking a feud with Sheamus but I have no fucking idea how that would even work out.....


I actually thought Orton would be out for the rest of the match and come back to win at that point. Silly me actually underestimated your prediction of Thwagger winning. Hopefully he turns heel for WM.

Now just hope ROCK retains.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You don't need hope with ROCK retaining, as it's pretty much the easiest lay-up of any main event match that you've seen over the past few years. For a second it MIGHT look like Punk retains, but some shenanigans will ensue and result in ROCK retaining setting up the match we all NEED to see :

ROCK VS CENA II :mark:

PS: This crowd is chanting for Ryback, what the actual fuck.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Wow The Shield won? The Shield went over clean? What the fuck is going on?!

I am not complaining though.

Plus, that spear by Reigns was fucking awesome!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Roman Reigns is gonna be a fucking STAR. God those spears were brutal. Another awesome match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Giving the chamber ****1/4.

I missed the six man tag, got food. How was it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ROMAN FUCKING REIGNS :mark: :mark: :mark:

THAT'S HOW YOU SHOW INTENSITY IN A MATCH, none of that forced shit like Ryback has been showing. What a match holy shit......

What the hell is going to be the payoff for The Shield at Wrestlemania now  ?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jeez, Roman Reigns just has me pumped the fuck up. KingOfKings said it best - intensity. That's what he brings to the table and it's paying off big time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Can already smell the butthurt in the PPV thread.

This PPV has been really fun though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Reigns and those Spears were BRUTAL. I didn't care for The Shield and still wont call myself a fan but REIGNS totally stole the show there. Spears almost on par with Goldberg.

And CENA lost CLEAN? Am I dreaming?

Tag match gets ★★★½ from me. Final two or three minutes were awesome but the rest of it was boring, standard tag stuff with restholds and shit.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

First PPV I've watched in a good while, but terrific. Chamber ****1/4 easily, tag match probably around ****.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

**** for the tag match? Holy shit I'm gonna need to watch that before bed.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Assuming that Punk/Rock turns out to be really good, this could be a classic PPV.

**** for both the Chamber and the tag match. ***1/4 - ***1/2 for Del Rio/Show


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Reigns and those Spears were BRUTAL. I didn't care for The Shield and still wont call myself a fan but REIGNS totally stole the show there. Spears almost on par with Goldberg.
> 
> And CENA lost CLEAN? Am I dreaming?
> 
> Tag match gets ★★★½ from me. Final two or three minutes were awesome but the rest of it was boring, standard tag stuff with restholds and shit.


Ryback took the pin, so he lost clean. haha

Check it out Brye, great match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know why anybody would assume a ROCK match to be good :lol .

There have been two AWESOME matches tonight which is pretty damn great, don't know which one I would consider to be better yet, but my STARZ!* predictions have been pretty fucking spot on at this point.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ROCK singles matches have been two out of two in terms of being good so I have good faith this one deliver as long as ROCK wins. If he loses, it's 0 by default for me.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Roman Reigns made himself a fucking star tonight, and made me notice him. Truly MVP type performance. 

Those spears :mark: 

Loved the chamber, probably the first ****** match of the year, even though I'm against Swagger winning, storyline wise it makes sense with Del Rio being champ. 

What's on the horizon for the Shield at Mania? That match was great probably throw **** 3/4* for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YES!!!!!! ROCK WON!!!!!!!!!!!! :mark:

Not as good as the Rumble but still an alright match. A lot more restholds this time around, though. The AE style booking was overdone but still cool. ★★★¼ here.

A great night with the excellent chamber, the great tag match and ROCK retaining in a good match. WHC was okay but I just wasn't into it. 0 fucks given for the rest.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

3000x better than the Rumble match, imo.

I'd give it ***1/4.

Chamber - ****1/4
Del Rio/Show - ***1/2
Six man tag - Watching right now
Miz/Cesaro - **


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES ROCK VS CENA II.

Honestly though even though the match sucked complete balls and since Punk pinned Rock first he's going to run around like it's his belt still, he kicked out of a Rock Bottom AND a People's Elbow. You don't get more over despite not winning than how Punk got over this time. The company obviously has a TON of faith in him moving forward to book things the way they've been booking them for sure.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Del Rio/Big Show - ***
6 Man Tag - ***1/4
Chamber - ***3/4
Rock/Punk - ***1/2

Very good PPV. Awful crowd though.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Jolly good ppv tonight.

Enjoyed the Chamber match, Del Rio vs. Big Show and Miz vs. Cesaro the most though. Shield vs. Cena/Sheamus/Ryback wasn't bad but I don't know I guess I didn't get into it that much might have been that long control segment with Cena. Rock vs. Punk was...alright.

Ryback is on a 5 ppv match losing streak at the moment...that's crazy. I like Ryback.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

So, does Punk still get thrown in the Rock/Cena match or does him hitting Heyman with the title mean it's Punk/Lesnar?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't plan on ordering WM now because of Rock/Cena II. Only way I can actually show WWE my disinterest in the match.

Unless there's Punk/Shield/Lesnar vs Trips/Bryan/Kane/HBK/Jericho or something.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Wow, people in the big discussion are ripping into this PPV massively! Why? Really solid event. Shield match was solid with a great finishing stretch. Really fun chamber match with a surprising winner. And Rock/Punk was much better than their Rumble match. Hell, even Del Rio/Show was ok. Good event imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> *Wow, people in the big discussion are ripping into this PPV massively! Why?* Really solid event. Shield match was solid with a great finishing stretch. Really fun chamber match with a surprising winner. And Rock/Punk was much better than their Rumble match. Hell, even Del Rio/Show was ok. Good event imo.


Because the people of that thread can only survive if they're miserable.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

EH... At this point there's a 1 percent chance of Punk coming out and claiming he had the Rock beat on that GTS where there was no referee and should still be the WWE Champion, but I highly fucking doubt it honestly. The WWE wants Rock-Cena II and probably III and we've all known that's what's going to happen for quite some time.

Punk looked awesome, kicked out of TWO finishers, and came out strong heading into his feud with Taker, that's all you can really ask for as a Punk fan TBH.

I know whatcha mean *Brye*, I'm not going to order it for the simple hope that others may voice their displeasure as well, instead of sitting here bitching about it and then buying the show anyways, ultimately proving nothing. In the end that stipulation meant FUCK ALL and I don't even know why it was added to the match.

I'm thinking we're getting Punk/Taker and HHH/XPac/NAO vs Lesnar/Shield as an outside of the box matchup TBH... What am I saying it's gonna be HHH/Lesnar II


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Elimination Chamber 2013

**World Heavyweight Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Big Show - *** 1/4

*United States Championship
*Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. The Miz - ** 1/2

*World Title #1 Contender's Elimination Chamber Match
*Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kane vs. Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry - ****+

The Shield vs. John Cena, Ryback, & Sheamus - *** 3/4

Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston - ** (crazy bumps)

*Divas Championship
*Kaitlyn (c) vs. Tamina - N/R (half paid attention)

*WWE Championship
*The Rock (c) vs. CM Punk - *** 1/4

*Overall: 8/10*

- Del Rio/Show was a great opener. Liked how Del Rio switched up some of his offense with the aerial moves, although I still got annoyed by how many kicks he used. Some nice nearfalls near the end & probably would've rated it a little higher if it wasn't for the bucket botch. I'll take it over their SmackDown LMS match tbh.

- Cesaro/Miz was going along REALLY well until the stupid finish. Great armwork from Cesaro & good legwork (what we got of it) from Miz. They'll have a rematch at some point.

- My thoughts on the Elimination Chamber & The 6-man can be found in the *2013 MOTYC Thread*. Couple awesome matches.

- Rock/Punk II, wow. Talk about a match of two halves. I might be in the minority, idk, but I really enjoyed the first 15 minutes or so. Punk wrestled a PERFECT match. Smart trying to get Rock disqualified, awesome touch by spitting in his face. Some may complain about the restholds, but JBL actually made a really good point by saying how Rock feeds off the energy from the crowd so Punk needed to eliminate the crowd completely. Once the ref bumps started, yeah, fuck that. Finish was way too predictable. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I'm sticking with that rating because of a great Punk performance and Heyman's involvement. We better fucking get a triple threat at Mania, cause Cena/Rock II can fuck off...​


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Del Rio/Show - Didn't watch.
Miz/Cesaro - Didn't watch.
Chamber - ***
Six man tag - ***1/2
Women- DUD
Ziggler/Kingston- *
Rock/Punk *1/2.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Because the people of that thread can only survive if they're miserable.


It's pretty ridiculous.

So what does everyone think is in line for Punk now?

Triple threat?

Match against Lesnar, since he hit Heyman with the title?

or match against Taker?

Or none of the above?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> It's pretty ridiculous.
> 
> So what does everyone think is in line for Punk now?
> 
> ...


I don't know but I'm worried that it's going to be something lame.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I think he will whine his way into a triple threat after having been "screwed" because the ref was out when he had Rock beaten.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Del Rio/Big Show - **3/4
6 Man Tag - ***1/4
Chamber - ****
Rock/Punk - ***3/4

My ratings for EC tonight. Punk/Rock was better tonight than at the Rumble, though not my much, but the ending makes it better for me. Great match, though not what I was anticipating. It's my own fault though for anticipating a much better match.

The chamber match was awesome though. The 6-man tag was good, but the Shield winning was awesome. Happy about that. Only minor complaint is Sheamus should've eaten the pin. No reason for Ryback to have unless he's turning heel, which would be stupid considering he's the most over face in the company right now.

Del Rio/Show was average.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Really weak main event in my view, probably the most uninterested I've been in a Punk match for awhile. Solid ppv though, the 6 man and the chamber was awesome. Was still thinking after Punk having Rock beat again, that he might get thrown in with rock and cena, but that went out the window when they already started to hype rock/cena 2. So what is Punk doing for mania now WWE?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Alberto Del Rio vs. Big Show - **3/4
Antonio Cesaro vs. The Miz - **
Elimination Chamber Match - ***1/2
The Shield vs. John Cena, Sheamus and Ryback - ***1/2
Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston - **
Tamina Snuak vs. Kaitlyn - NA (didn't watch)
The Rock vs. CM Punk - **


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Elimination Chamber 2012*

Alberto Del Rio vs The Big Show : *** 3/4*

Antonio Cesaro vs The Miz : ** 3/4*

Smackdown Elimination Chamber Match : ******

The Shield vs John Cena/Ryback/Sheamus : **** 3/4*

CM Punk vs The Rock : ****


The nearfalls certainly helped Rock/Punk and although the first three quarters of the match was absolute trash and I was ready to throw like one star at it due to Dwayne fucking Johnson's inability to work two minutes without being out of breath, the nearfalls at the end saved it from being a 100 percent complete fucking disaster. ROCK IS HORRIBLE.

The Chamber match and subsequent SHIELD match were both awesome, with the MVP honors for the night being shared by Roman Reigns and Mark "ratings" Henry. I don't have alot to say about this show honestly... There were two really awesome matches and that's more than you can ask for from a filler PPV like this one. We're headed for a Wrestlemania Main Event of Sid/Hogan proportions but whatever. Better than last year's EC by a mile but nothing close to the 2011 one.​


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock wins again! 

This match was much better than the RR match IMO. I can see why the stipulation was added to be fair. It added to the story telling of the match when Punk slapped/spat at the Rock or when Punk rock bottomed Rock on the table. It's a shame that the table didn't break but oh well. It either breaks too early or doesn't lol. Some nice spots into the match such as Rock catching Punk mid air and hitting him with the Rock Bottom. Didn't like the referee spots very much but hey, it did add drama into the match. I actually thought Punk would lose when he got hit by the People's Elbow. 

I will rate this match at ***3/4


----------



## 11rob2k (Jun 22, 2012)

Alberto Del Rio vs. Big Show - Didn't watch
Antonio Cesaro vs. The Miz - Didn't watch
Elimination Chamber Match - ****1/2
The Shield vs. John Cena, Sheamus and Ryback - ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston - Didn't watch
Tamina Snuak vs. Kaitlyn -*
The Rock vs. CM Punk - **1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just watched the six man tag. That shit OWNED.

****, imo.

I see Swagger/Del Rio being a good match at Mania.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

So how are The Shield going to be involved in 'Mania? They're riding high right now but it's hard to see where they fit in.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Elimination Chamber 2013*

Del Rio/Big Show - ***
Cesaro/Miz - **1/2
Elimination Chamber - ****
Shield/Superheroes - ***
Kofi/Ziggler - *
Divas - N/A
Rock/Punk - ***1/2

Comments:

- The opener was really solid. Del Rio looked good minus the botch at the end, but shit happens. I wasn't a fan of the finish though. I don't think Big Show should have tapped. Now he looks weak as hell heading into Wrestlemania.

- Elimination Chamber was awesome. Bryan/Jericho starting things off was a treat. Mark Henry was a straight up beast. He looked dominant and I thought he was going to win for sure. Even when he got eliminated, he didn't look weak at all because it took 3 guys to take him out. And what he did afterwards was awesome too. The finishing sequence of the match was great and Swagger winning was a total shock. 

- Shield/Superheroes was good. The Shield had a good showing against 3 of the biggest babyfaces in the WWE. I have two issues with this match. Firstly, that spear through the barricade spot. How many times has that been done in the last 2 months? At least 3 if not more. And that finish. The Shield had to win somehow, but Ryback looked weak by eating the pin. It should have been Sheamus. But perhaps this is setting up for a Sheamus/Ryback match at Wrestlemania with a potential Ryback heel turn.

- Kofi/Ziggler, meh. There should have been a DQ when Ziggler got pulled out of the ring by Ryblack during the pin. #WWELogic. And I think I noticed an AJ boob slip when she was on the apron.

- Punk/Rock was a great match. I feel that they could have played up to the stipulation a bit more because I only noticed a couple of instances where Punk was trying to get Rock counted out or DQ'd. I didn't mind the finish. Punk still looks strong and Rock retains. Here comes Rock/Cena II.

Overall thoughts:

A good show overall. There were a few booking decisions that I didn't like, but there were a number of solid matches on the card with one GREAT match. Looking forward to Raw tomorrow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Just watched the six man tag. That shit OWNED.
> 
> ****, imo.
> 
> I see Swagger/Del Rio being a good match at Mania.


Told ya! 

Del Rio/Swagger I think would be a good match for sure, also kinda funny it'd be USA vs. Mexico kinda thing but with reversed face/heel roles, but I still don't see it happening. Ziggler has to be champ soon... right? :argh:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

My ratings:

Del Rio/Show *****
Cesaro/Miz ****
Smackdown Chamber match ******
Cena/Sheamus Ryback vs The Shield ****3/4*
Divas match *DUD*
Kofi vs Ziggler ***
CM Punk vs The Rock ***3/4*

Edit: my post on the show:


Nostalgia said:


> Anyway, 6 out 10, just above average show.
> 
> Del Rio/Big Show was an ok match, Del Rio making Big Show tap was big, can't remember the last time Big show submitted, didn't mind the result but I was hoping for a Ziggler cash-in (more than any other PPV before) so I was underwhelmed at the ending..
> 
> ...





KingOfKings said:


> *Elimination Chamber 2012*​




It's 2013. ​


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

CM Punk will surely call for The Rock to be disqualified retrospectively tomorrow night?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alim said:


> *Elimination Chamber 2013*
> 
> Del Rio/Big Show - ***
> Cesaro/Miz - **1/2
> ...


Hit the nail on the head right there. The WWE has realized that outside of Punk there are currently NO big time heels to feud with Cena (that hasn't been done already) besides like Mark Henry. When Cena takes the title back at Mania they're going to need to get him some feuds and some fresh blood to work with honestly.

Although if Cena-Ryback ever main events a PPV like it obviously will at some point, I'm going to stay on here and review old shit but I won't be TOUCHING the current product for a while.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> CM Punk will surely call for The Rock to be disqualified retrospectively tomorrow night?


 But Punk also did some illegal moves when Heyman was distracting the referee.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Punk vs. Rock will go down as two garbage matches that completely underwhelmed me. Right up there with Orton/HHH. 

YOU GUYS READY FOR DWAYNE VS. JOHNATHAN- TWICE IN A LIFETIME!? :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Elimination Chamber 2013*

Alberto Del Rio vs The Big Show : *** 3/4*

Antonio Cesaro vs The Miz : *** 1/4*

Smackdown Elimination Chamber Match : ******

The Shield vs John Cena/Ryback/Sheamus : **** 3/4*

Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler : ** 3/4*

CM Punk vs The Rock : ****

Solid PPV, suprisingly have the main event as the worst match on the show given the time it had, just couldnt get into it at all. Mark Henry and Chris Jericho were awesome as always. However Roman Reigns takes MVP honors tonight, he looked like an absolute star tonight. Swagger winning works storyline wise, however there were much better options but ill see how it pans out before I say anything. Bring on Rock/Cena 2, ughhhh how happy I am didnt waste my money to go to Wrestlemania this year.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Agree, Reigns the clear MVP tonight. He was an animal. All of The Shield were great, the tag match really allowed them to show off their unique styles. Really big things should come from them. Excited!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For me, the only thing that could've made the PPV better was Orton winning. As much as I hate Swagger winning, at least the WHC will be so irrelevant that if Orton faces Jericho or Sheamus, it will be a bigger match.

They need to stop testing the WHC with irrelevant matches like the poor man's Eddie/JBL we're gonna get at Wrestlemania. WM is meant to be the biggest stage, so it's a joke that they bring SWAGGER, a guy who jobbed for over a year to everybody from Santino to Evan Bourne and expect us to buy into him just because he gets a mouthpiece, some ugly facial hair and haircut and beats a few jobbers the weeks proceeding it.

Oh and all you "Orton is under-performing" monkeys, shut your yap! He did just fine tonight.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rock's constant use of a punch really annoyed me tonight. He hit a couple that sounded great, but fuck, the guy works with 4 actual wrestling moves. The others are elbows & punches.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Rock's constant use of a punch really annoyed me tonight. He hit a couple that sounded great, but fuck, the guy works with 4 actual wrestling moves. The others are elbows & punches.


Yeah. Even a DDT or suplex would have been nice. But he did pull out the Samoan drop. Love that move.

Commentary mentioned a Punk tooth flying out after a Rock punch? Anyone see that? Probably nothing but hey.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yeah. Even a DDT or suplex would have been nice. But he did pull out the Samoan drop. Love that move.


 He did hit the DDT in this match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Might be the only one here that is really interested in Swagger/Del Rio and not at all in Rock/Cena. Well, at least the Swagger/Del Rio part. No one cares about Rock/Cena. ~__~


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm more interested in Swagger/Del Rio which is odd. I like Cena more than Del Rio, and I sure as hell like Rock more than Swagger, so it's strange, but I'm more looking forward to SD and seeing where they go with that, as opposed to Rock/Cena.

And thank god Orton didn't win the chamber. We didn't need to see Orton/Del Rio again.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Hit the nail on the head right there. The WWE has realized that outside of Punk there are currently NO big time heels to feud with Cena (that hasn't been done already) besides like Mark Henry. When Cena takes the title back at Mania they're going to need to get him some feuds and some fresh blood to work with honestly.
> 
> Although if Cena-Ryback ever main events a PPV like it obviously will at some point, I'm going to stay on here and review old shit but I won't be TOUCHING the current product for a while.


Meh. I think there are better options.

And beside, we will surely be getting another Punk-Cena series after WM.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Tonight's PPV was very meh. EC match was kind of fun, but nothing special. Really disappointing show, imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> He did hit the DDT in this match.


Ok, must have forgotten it. My point still stands though.

Del Rio/Swagger might have an interesting build up. I'm intrigued as to where it will go. They could still add someone to the match. Perhaps Ziggler cashes in before Mania, setting up him defending against both Swagger and Del Rio?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ryback turning heel? If that happens, I'll share my issues on that, but until then I reserve judgement. However I have so many problems with a Heel Ryback vs. Face Sheamus match for WM29, it ain't even funny. But I'll get into that if that time comes. All I'll say is, just turn Orton fucking heel to feud with Sheamus.

Not gonna lie if I said I wasn't looking forward to Raw tonight. Until it becomes apparent that Taker ain't having a match for Mania, I'll be looking forward to Raw every week just for his return. Also looking forward to whatever Punk is doing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Pretty entertaining show for the most part. Del Rio/Show was the worst of their encounters (imo), and it looks like we're continuing Cesaro/Miz. I'm all for an extended midcard storyline.

Chamber match was fun. I was surprised that there wasn't more interaction between Bryan and Kane, but I'm guessing the seeds were planted and aftermath will take place on Raw to set up their Mania match. Jericho and Orton put in great performances in the finishing stretch, and Henry was kept looking strong despite being eliminated. Swagger winning was interesting. Not sure how I feel about a Del Rio/Swagger title match, but given proper build it could be fun. It'll be overshadowed by the other matches anyway so they can afford a lower profile World Title match.

SHIELD. Pleasant surprise. Great match.

Main event was probably better than their first match. At least Punk kicked out of 2 finishers. With Heyman's interference I'm guessing Punk will blame Heyman for costing him the match, prompting BROCK to come out to Heyman's defense, creating a Mania feud between BROCK and Punk and turning Punk back into a babyface in the process. They'll need another top face once Rock disappears after Mania.

Just my two cents.

edit Oh and Punk kicking out of The People's Elbow is one of the better nearfalls in recent memory.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yeah, the announcers played it up as how would Ryback come back against The Shield or something like that but really, that walk off just screamed planting the seeds for a heel turn. Sheamus and Ryback both seem directionless for Wrestlemania and Ryback isn't really over, his reactions at TLC, Royal Rumble and tonight proved that, so I think WWE is pulling the trigger on a Ryback heel turn.

I thought he'd debut as a heel back last April anyways.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

-Rio v Show- Probably my favourite match of the show; had so much fun with this. Del Rio screwing up the first attempt at the bucket kick thing was bad but it was an all right spot when it hit. This was Del Rio trying to get a good rhythm going on Show and Show just beating the shit out of him when possible. I liked this a lot.

-Cesaro v Miz - Cesaro was amusing at the end, but he really doesn't need to look weak. This is getting a lot of love and I didn't see that. I didn't love this, but Cesaro hit a bunch of neat shit and Miz isn't bad. No, fuck it. I don't care how 'not bad' he is, Miz needs to fuck off. Seriously. Drop dead. Fuck you. I hate him. Fuck you. I'll try giving this another watch some time since it's getting a bunch of love. 

-Chamber- Standard bunch of nothing until Henry came out. No, that is not me talking as a Henry mark, that is me talking as someone who watched the match. The Kane/Bryan stuff was all right, but I've stopped caring and Danielson needs to move onto to someone who hasn't spent a decade and a half doing nothing of note. Henry comes out and fucking mutilates Orton into that pod, steamrolls everyone else, sells like the best in the world and has that awesome Jericho spot. The whole match was centred around him, and then he gets eliminated. Even in elimination he eats Jericho's shitty finisher better than everyone ever. Fuck you, Vince. This lived and died with Henry. I don't want to see Orton and his shitty clotheslines and embarrassing "voices" seizures. I don't want to see Jericho and his shitty indy springboard moveset. I don't want to see Swagger take fifteen minute breaks between every offensive move. I like Swagger, but for fuck's sake, what's he done? He left at a time where I wasn't even sure he was still with the company, then he returns when I forgot he was even gone, then he has to have Dutch fucking Mantel do his mic work for him. Post-Henry stuff was whatever. I've seen that shit before and I just don't care. Fuck you, Vince.

-Shield v Those Guys- No way I could judge this fairly. I really, really liked the last few minutes, but I was too pissed about Henry to enjoy the rest of this. Sounds stupid? Fuck you. What I paid attention to was good, but I'd be willing to give this another watch with the US title match.

-Dolph v Kofi- I was stupid enough to think when Booker T came out and said 'he can do what you can and a little more' it would be Rey Mysterio. I don't give a shit about either of these two. Moving on.

-Kaitl...still moving on.

-Rock v Punk- Punk was good, loved how he sold the Rock's punches. Ending stuff was kind of fun, but kind of weird. What was that thing where Punk rolled over the ref's leg? whatever. Rock v Cena twice in a lifetime. Wonderful. Fuck you, Vince.



Now I know how people felt who watched Danielson lose the title in 18 seconds live.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

fuck you yea1993

Henry was GAWD but so was shield

NOPE1993

:ambrose


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HEY YEAH DO YOU HATE VINCE?

SHIELD


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redead- I DIDN'T SAY I DIDN''T LIKE THE SHIELD MATCH I'LL WATCH IT AGAIN MOTHERFUCKER

They should have put the divas match or dolph v kofi after the Chamber.

greg- Fuckin Vince. Guy hated me first.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Henry was fucking awesome for sure. At least they somewhat protected him in defeat. Hoping he doesn't have a throwaway match @ Mania.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

protected nothing

you ask me, he came out of that match looking like the real winner


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

NOBODY ASKED YOU REDEAD


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He'll probably face Orton at Mania. NOC 2011 is one of the best matches of either guys' careers but I'm just not into the show altogether. I guess my streak of not watching Mania live since 2009 will continue. It'll be the first WWE PPV I don't watch since SummerSlam. Yeah, WrestleMania! Greatest show of the year! Yay! Piece a fuckin shit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I always watch Mania no matter how disappointing I think it may be.

REIGNS was a beast tonight. I'm guessing the spear through the barricade spot will be his shtick?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ONLY 49 MORE DAYS TILL DWAYNE-CENA II :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm thinking it will be Ryback/Henry for Mania. Thoughts?

Oh and Henry and Reigns were the stars of the show tonight. Reigns spear is pure awesomeness.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> REIGNS was a beast tonight. I'm guessing the spear through the barricade spot will be his shtick?


Yeah, Reigns is a really good heel-Goldberg kind of guy. He screams his head off too much, but I'm willing to endure that in exchange for him being the big powerhouse asskicker. He's also the Rock's cousin, which, duh, makes him better than he otherwise would be. THE ROCK! Yay! Rock v Cena II! At WrestleMania! The greatest show of the year! Once in a lifetime...again!!!! Piece a fuckin shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Remember Wrestlemania XXVI ?

We got Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker stealing the show in the main event in perhaps one of the greatest matches in WWF/WWE history.

Forget about that, because Rock's MAIN EVENTING Manias XXVII - XXX more than likely. THREE MANIA MAIN EVENTS IN A ROW FOR SOMEBODY WHO WAS WRESTLED FOUR SHITTY MATCHES SINCE HE CAME BACK.

There's seriously not a performer I hate more than ROCK right now and I honestly hope he gets struck by lightning so I never have to see him attempt to do what he calls "wrestling" or "cutting a promo" ever again.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I somewhat agree. I am a Rock fan and even I believe Punk is getting the snub here. Wrestlemania 29 should have been the event that defined CM Punk. Instead we are most likely going to get a predictable match against The Undertaker.

Still hoping that doesn't happen. Ugh.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

It's bad that I literally could care less about mania now. The championship matches do not appeal to me at all. Rock/Cena sucked the first time and it will suck again. Swagger/Del Rio while gimmick wise it makes sense does not interest me at all. Swagger's been back only a couple of weeks and is the #1 contender to the WHC when months ago he couldn't win a match. 

Bryan/Kane sounds like an absolute lock and while I understand that it has to happen for them to break up I'm really worrying how WWE will book it if they want bryan to be a major face post WM, plus the match probably won't be all that great.

I'm only watching mania for the shield, punk, lesnar, and henry. Taker's nowhere to be found this year and i'm really beginning to think we are getting punk/lesnar at WM even though I think it would be stupid for WWE to turn punk face because he's one of the top 2 heels on the roster right now and is one of the only truly credible main event heels.

Why couldn't we get Del Rio/Henry.....WHY?!?

I really don't know where they go with The Shield right now, they just beat the 3 top faces on the roster. They look unstoppable, and I really love that but I don't know what they do at WM.

What WM will do is have a big buyrate due to Rock and that's all vince cares about so it will be a great WM to him even though it looks like it will be an incredibly crappy WM to us.

rant/random WM thoughts.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Throwing **** at The Shield match, loved it. The one thing I didn't like was Ryback getting pinned, the biggest travesty in WWE is his booking. He was over even after 3 PPV losses and was getting cheered over John Cena in the Royal Rumble, but I think this loss was too much. I love The Shield, but Ryback NEEDS to beat all 3 by himself at Wrestlemania.


----------



## cena542007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Elimination Chamber 2013

Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio - ***
Nice opener. Not nearly as good as the LMS match from Royal Rumble and Smackdown though.

Antonio Cesaro vs. The Miz - N/A

Chamber - **** 
A match with surprising events and an unexpected ending, a great and entertaining match.

Cena/Sheamus/Ryback vs. The Shield - *** 1/4
After re-watching the match, I'll raise the rating from 2 to 3 1/4. I swear from what I remember the first time Cena was in the ring for what felt like 15 minutes in a hold from The Shield. But the second time the match seemed to go by a lot quicker and faster paced. I don't know what the hell I was watching the first time. 

Kofi Kingston vs. Dolph Ziggler - * 1/2 
Had some interesting bumps in it, other than that meh.

Tamina Snuka vs. Kaitlyn - 1/2
Yeah, not much here.

The Rock vs. CM Punk - ** 1/2
Interesting, but some predictable occurrence's, including the end result. 

Overall: 6.5/10


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Elimination Chamber STARZ

World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Big Show - ***1/2 Really fun opener, the enzuigiri botch didn't really bother me that much and it was a fun match

United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. The Miz - ** 1/2 Cesaro was a boss but the finish was really annoying

World Title #1 Contender Elimination Chamber Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kane vs. Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry ***3/4 (Henry was awesome for the time he was in there.....that is all) :mark: 

The Shield vs. John Cena, Ryback, & Sheamus - *** 3/4 tons of fun

Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston - ** 

Divas Championship
Kaitlyn (c) vs. Tamina - skipped this, could care less unfortunately

WWE Championship
The Rock (c) vs. CM Punk - **3/4 Every single match Rock has had since he's come back have been nothing special, Rock just looks gassed after only a couple of minutes in the ring, I really wish he was in better ring shape so we could get an appropriate match between these two and not what we have been getting since Rock's return. Punk tries his best to make it a good match but there's only so much he can do. 

Overall 6/10 

Chamber and the 6 man were awesome, WHC is a fun opener as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JACK FUCKING SWAGGER


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So, we the people who bought the Rock/Cena: Once In A Lifetime DVD get a refund for breach of advertising lol? 

Of course, we all saw this coming a mile off, it'll probably be Punk/Ryback too knowing them, not expecting
much/anything from Raw tonight either, Seriously:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I laughed at Cena vs Rock and moved onto the positives.

Jack Swagger & The Shield.

Shield's match tonight was stellar. Those guys in the ring create magic right now. Couldn't believe they won either. :mark: worthy.

lol @ Rock's work though. Guy is _so_ bad.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I can't believe Cena/Miz was the main event of WrestleMania 27. I had completely forgotten about that.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

When was the last time we had a great main event match at Wrestlemania that didn't involved Taker or HBK ?

I see some people talk shit about Rock for not being good and i agree with them but what about Cena ? i mean he is always in the main event of Wrestlemania and most of his matches are bad too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Difference being Cena is a great worker and generally the better part of his matches. Match vs JBL was the only exception thanks to that one falling apart from the start with mindbogglingly bad booking.

vs Triple H (a bit more give and take), Miz, & Rock he certainly sticks out. Do the matches that don't "go on last" count here? b/c if so all of those matches were either good - solid and don't really fall under the area of being "bad".


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Vs. HHH - Good match but nothing special.
vs. HBK - The only great Cena match at Wrestlemania.
Vs. Miz - One of the worst matches in WWE history.
Vs. Rock - decent match and that's all.

I don't know about Cena/Rock II but since Rock's return he wasn't involved in one great match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's not most of his matches being that. I count two. Two out of eight isn't an abysmal curve.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

So far this RTWM suck and i don't know what is going to happen with both Taker and Lesnar but it looks like we will get:

Rock/Cena II
Taker/Punk
Lesnar/HHH II

:jose


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

EC was a lot of fun in places. 

Chamber - ****
Shield/Super Friends - ***3/4
Punk/Rock - **3/4

There's a video on WWE.com of Heyman recovering after being clocked by Punk. DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND WATCH IT RIGHT NOW! (http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/elimination-chamber-2013-exclusive-videos)

Rock/Cena, Twice in a Year. Yay. :side:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

El Cuñado said:


> There's a video on WWE.com of Heyman recovering after being clocked by Punk. DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND WATCH IT RIGHT NOW! (http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/elimination-chamber-2013-exclusive-videos)


Haha you gotta love the commitment by Heyman. Even in a WWE.com exclusive with all the fans gone he kills it: "Why would he do that to me? Why did he hit me? Lawsuit!"

Haha :lol

I'm thinking this is leaning towards Punk/Lesnar now. That spot seemed too set-up not to mean anything. Perhaps if Taker isn't fit to compete, HHH has stepped aside and is allowing that match to happen? Who knows.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I wouldn't mind a Submission match between Hunter and Brock at 'Mania.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Haha you gotta love the commitment by Heyman. Even in a WWE.com exclusive with all the fans gone he kills it: "Why would he do that to me? Why did he hit me? Lawsuit!"
> 
> Haha :lol
> 
> I'm thinking this is leaning towards Punk/Lesnar now. That spot seemed too set-up not to mean anything. Perhaps if Taker isn't fit to compete, HHH has stepped aside and is allowing that match to happen? Who knows.


I thought the same thing. It's an interesting direction for Heyman to take (and damn hilarious). It makes me think that the Punk/Heyman split is imminent, which can only mean Punk/Brock (probably not at WM, but still). :mark:

I'm gonna miss Punk and Heyman together though. They've been absolute gold.

"That's a lawsuit. That's a lawsuit right there. I could sue. I have lawyers" after almost tripping over the rolled up carpet. :lmao


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

El Cuñado said:


> I thought the same thing. It's an interesting direction for Heyman to take (and damn hilarious). It makes me think that the Punk/Heyman split is imminent, which can only mean Punk/Brock (probably not at WM, but still). :mark:
> 
> I'm gonna miss Punk and Heyman together though. They've been absolute gold.
> 
> "That's a lawsuit. That's a lawsuit right there. I could sue. I have lawyers" after almost tripping over the rolled up carpet. :lmao


I agree with you about Punk and Heyman, they've been fantastic and entertaining since coming together and has been really fun. But I guess it's got to end sometime and this seems to be the logical end. Lesnar/Punk would be a very fun match in my opinion and I'd happily pay to see it.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

robertdeniro said:


> When was the last time we had a great main event match at Wrestlemania that didn't involved Taker or HBK ?


WrestleMania 22. THAT is a WrestleMania main-event. THAT is a true spectacle and epitomizes everything WrestleMania is.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Watched Elimination Chamber just now, not bad at all. Spoilers obviously if you haven't seen the show 8*D

Del Rio/Show: *
Cesaro/Miz: *3/4
EC: *** (SWAGGER?!)
Shield/Team Superfaces: *** (Right guys went over)
Ziggler/Kofi: *
Divas: SKIPPED
Rock/Punk: **

Have to say Show looked so shit in the opener, shit match too but i didn't really care that much.
Rock/Punk was SO much better than the Rumble match but it still just didn't hit the heights we were all hoping. Ending was pretty stupid and predictable but at least Punk kicked out of a Rock Bottom and a People's Elbow (Y)
EC was fine, HENRY was awesome : but Swagger seriously? Del Rio/Swagger for a WRESTLEMANIA main event? 
Shield deserved their win, they were pretty dominant too and look great now. The spear through the barricade has become a monthly thing now :lmao

Not bad, now let's get Cena/Rock II out of the way please, gawd the promos are going to unbearable.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena's WM WWE/World Title/Main Event matches:

21- vs. JBL- 1/2*
22- vs. HHH- ***
23- vs. HBK- ****
24- vs. Orton vs. HHH- ***1/2
25- vs. Edge vs. Big Show- ***
26- vs. Batista- ***3/4
27- vs. Miz- 1/2*
28- vs. Rock- ***1/2

Cena's not a great worker anymore, but he can still hold his own in big match situations. His match with Rock, while not a classic, was a great match and a decent enough WM main event. And when he was better, you had excellent WWE Title matches like against Batista and HBK, you had a good one with HHH at WM22. You also had two triple threats. One great, one good. Then you get to his beyond awful matches that had no business being for the WWE Title, or in the Miz-match case, the main event. Cena/Miz and Cena/JBL. Ugh.

Edit: Just watched that Heyman video from last night. Now I'm put into a bit of a loop tbh. They're really going to go with Punk/Lesnar? Or is this just a means to officially separate Punk and Heyman? Hopefully the latter, because while Punk/Lesnar would be cool to see at some point, WM would be too early.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

Skyfall said:


> anybody know where you could watch all the old RAW shows? I'm talking from #1 up till now. Even if it's some service you have to pay for; I'm interested. Thanks


uh, this again please.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

robertdeniro said:


> When was the last time we had a great main event match at Wrestlemania that didn't involved Taker or HBK ?
> 
> I see some people talk shit about Rock for not being good and i agree with them but what about Cena ? i mean he is always in the main event of Wrestlemania and most of his matches are bad too.


(Y) Spot on. Cena's matches leave alot left to be desired. Especially the ones in which he is supposed to be the better guy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alberto Del Rio Vs The Big Show

So once again the WHC opens a PPV. LOL. 3 years in a row for WM too?

Match in the early part... reminds me a lot of their LMS match. Show hitting basic power moves... then just standing around letting Del Rio get up. Only difference is that the ref wasn't counting to 10 lol. Someone tell Show its a singles match...

Del Rio's signalling for the Cross Arm Breaker looked like he was having a heart attack. Shacking his head and slapping his left arm. SOMEONE CALL FOR AN AMBULANCE!

Oh look, Ricardo cheats. AWESOME BABYFACE. Has Del Rio done anything since turning babyface to make anyone cheer him? Cheating, stealing, vandalising... gotta love them WWE babyfaces.

Does Show ever win with a chokeslam? When was the last time?

Oh how impressive, Show picked up Del Rio while he had the arm breaker on him. Pffft, Backlund could do that do, and look at the size of him. :lmao as I typed that, JBL actually said it was "like a giant Bob Backlund". Awesome.

Del Rio just kicked the bucket. Into Show's face. Tap out. Dammit.

Match was solid, probably their best match together. Nothing special though.

Rating: **3/4


Advert for GI Joe. Looks terrible :lmao.


Antonio Cesaro Vs The Miz

Nope. Not watching this shite. Miz can fuck off. Literally.

Rating: NO


Mark Henry Vs Chris Jericho Vs Daniel Bryan Vs Kane Vs Jack Swagger Vs Randy Orton (Elimination Chamber)

:mark: This better be as awesome as I've allowed my expectations to dictate.

:lmao new music for Swagger. Sounds terrible :lmao. DUTCH. We need a debate between DUTCH and Bryan about who has the better facial hair.

:lmao when Swagger speaks, he showers us with truth. I thought it was saliva . He has a lisp.

Jericho and Bryan starting :mark:. They don't really do anything spectacular in their time alone, but its fun enough. 

Swagger time. :lmao anyone else thinks he looks like a retard when he runs? Watch him when he gets whipped into the turnbuckle by Jericho. REATRDED RUN.

KANE. Holy shit, they are actually SWERVING~! us with the entry order. Normally they go by when they come out to the ring. Kane came out first, so usually he would come out last. About time they mixed it up (probably happened last year too but I forget shit like that).

A little team work from them before Bryan turns on his partner and tries to pin him! Yes! Break them up! DOOOOOOO IIIIIIITTTT.

Orton next, which means HENRY gonna fuck shit up at the end :mark:. Really hope nobdy gets eliminated until then so Henry can crush them all.

Lol, nice job Orton. DDT KANE on the steel... doesn't even attempt to pin him. I hope Kane eliminates Orton for that .

Henry is getting inpatient. But its nearly his time. Everyone is still in the match, but all are down and hurting. SOMEBODY GONNA GET THEY ASS KICKED :mark:.

Bryan the first to go . That's disappointing tbh. BAM! Henry launches Orton through a pod . Henry catches Kane coming off the ropes. World's Strongest Slam! Kane is gone! HENRY KILLING BITCHES.

Swagger working with Jericho to try and take out Henry. Because HENRY DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY DO . Oh shit, double suplex to Henry. ON THE STEEL. One impressive bump for a guy that size!

I saw Jericho setting up for the Lionsault, and I also saw Henry getting to his feet. What happened is exactly what I thought would happen and hoped would happen :mark:. 

Shit. I think Henry is going . NOOOOOOOO. BULLSHIT. BUUUUUULLLSHIT. THAT WAS FUCKING BUUUUULLLSHIT. HENRY SHOULD HAVE WON DAMMIT. THIS SUCKS.

Only one guy left who should win. And it doesn't make any real sense for Jericho to win because Del Rio is a babyface and that match looks shitty on paper. I guess Ziggler could cash in before 'Mania.

Henry comes back! KILL EM ALL. KILLLLLL EMMM ALLLL! Booker T shows up. KILL BOOKER. Dammit. Well at least Henry looks like a fucking BEAST still. Just wonder what he's gonna do at WM.

So Jericho is the only real guy left who SHOULD win, but unless Ziggler cashes in, that would be stupid. Orton doesn't deserve shit atm. And Swagger... well they kinda have the story going with his new character to face Del Rio... but Swagger Vs Del Rio doesn't scream WHC match... certainly not at WRESTLEMANIA. Its more of an IC/US title match on a B PPV. Swagger is winning, isn't he?

So even with HENRY gone, they still manage to keep me interesting in the match. Great finale with all 3 men, that sequence between Jericho and Orton to eliminate Jericho was great... and then SWAGGER gets the win. At least it wasn't Orton... but Swagger? Swagger Vs Del Rio? Most likely Rock Vs Cena II? WM title matches are looking like SHIT right now.

So aside from the winner, I fucking LOVED this match. Might be my favourite. Not the BEST, but favourite. Probably up there as one of the best though. NYR 05 is definitely above it. Maybe 2 or 3 more over it, but that's about it. Great, great match.

Rating: ****


The Shield Vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback

Oh shit, actually forgot this match was happening lol. Wrote out the card first to set up my CAL SCALE document for 2013 PPV's, and somehow forgot about this match! God I hope this lives up to expectations. The chamber match did, even if the winner sucks, I just hope this had the RIGHT winner.

Ambrose being the one to get singled out at the very start was a great idea, he's definitely the guy you WANT to see get his arse kicked the most because he's a smarmy little shit lol. An awesome one of course. Sheamus ripping off his flak jacket was smart too. Hated how at the TLC match Ambrose (I think it was him anyway) had to sell some fucking CHOPS that hit his jacket lol.

Sheamus looks to be the FIP for the super team, which is another awesome choice. He should do well. Dammit Cena just tagged in lol. Maybe we're gonna get an extended "babyface shine" period before they go into a full on FIP period with Sheamus. Though I guess Cena being FIP would be ok, because he can take a beating well, and in this kind of match he doesn't have to make a superman comeback, he can just do enough to tag someone else in to go all superman from the apron.

Cena does indeed do a great job, as do the entire Shield who look great on offence. :lmao what the fuck was Ryback doing? He just wandered over to one of the other corners... did nothing then went back to his corner. Ambrose is awesome on the apron, constantly screaming shit either at his team mates in the ring, encouraging them to get the job done, or at one of the opponents "SHUT UP SHEAMUS!". Seeing him in the ring with Cena is :mark: every time. If WWE don't fuck shit up, Ambrose Vs Cena could easily be a PPV Main Event at some point. 

A bunch of great cut off spots to Cena before he finally gets the hot tag, and Ryback comes in and does a great job running over everyone until Reigns just fucking DECKS HIM. Oh FFS... ANOTHER BARRICADE SPOT? Seriously? 4 since December. FOUR. But it does help take Sheamus out of the match I guess. Would have been better if Show hadn't done it twice, and they let it be a Shield speciality. SPEAR TO RYBACK. SHIELD WIN! FUCK YES!

Oh man this was great. Not TLC match great, but still fucking great. Ryback taking the pin was a surprise, but I like it! Shield looked GREAT. Match definitely lived up to expectations! 2 matches in a row on this PPV that have just made my #1 and #2 MOTY lol.

Rating: ***3/4


AJ. ZIGGLER. AJ. THE OTHER GUY. AJ. Promo about how he's great but wasn't booked on the show. Booker T shows up. Let me guess. He's gonna make a match. Hope its not against someone shit like Khali. Shelton return? That would be cool. Makes sense given what was said. :lmao no, Kofi Kingston. Dammit, wish I'd never thought of Shelton Benjamin. Going from thinking of Shelton to getting Kofi is like... going from dating *insert women you think is the hottest in the world* to dating Mae Young. At her current age.


Dolph Ziggler Vs Kofi Kingston

As much as I like Dolph, this match has happened a billion times and I didn't care for any of them. Kofi is just terrible and I never want to see anything he does.

Rating: NO


Brodus Clay is playing with toys backstage. Tensai is dancing. I'm glad they took the time to put this on PPV.


Kaitlyn Vs Tamina Snuka

Lol like I give a fuck.

Rating: NO


The Rock Vs CM Punk

Can this PPV end on a good note, or will this blow just as bad, if not worse, than their RR match?

Fuck, 23 minutes left on the show? Urgh. Rock shouldn't be going longer than 15 minutes. 10 is probably all he should (and probably CAN) do.

Punk takes things slow early, looking like a cocky little bastard, then the moment Rock starts getting offence in he rolls to the outside. Smart. Then Punk goes back in and decides to play up on the stipulation, and does anything he can to make Rock angry and potentially get DQ'd!

Rock gets angry, and of course being angry can put you off your game, and this allows Punk to take control of the match. He puts Rock in a choke... I mean CHIN LOCK. No doubt to give Rock a rest . Seriously though, Rock looked exhausted in the first couple of minutes after taking some back bumps :|.

YOU'RE UP TO TWO. YOU'VE HAD A 1 AND A 1 AND A HALF. YOU'RE GETTING CLOSER. :lmao Heyman is AMAZING. 

Lol, the Spanish announce table does almost a callback spot of its own. Last time it broke before a Rock Bottom could be hit by Rock. This time, it doesn't break at all when PUNK hits a Rock Bottom. Which probably hurts more. Spanish announce table ain't no Rock fan!

Some other stuff happened too. Wasn't paying full attention. Played a couple of games of solitaire at the same time.

PUNK KICKS OUT OF A ROCK BOTTOM. A MONTH TOO LATE.

Ref bump. And Punk hits the GTS. LOL. Punk should have won right there, so I guess that'll be a good enough excuse to throw him into a triple threat at WM should they go that route?

People's Elbow. PUNK KICKS OUT. Again, a month too late. This kind of finishing stretch should have happened then. End Punk's title reign on a high of a note as possible. Not end Rock's first title defence this way. Bah.

Punk knocks out Heyman, Rock bottom, this one is over.

Match was just as dull and shitty as the RR, but then had a better finishing stretch. So it gets a slightly better rating for that.

Rating: **3/4


CAL SCALE

Elimination Chamber - 8

Alberto Del Rio Vs The Big Show - **3/4 - 1
Antonio Cesaro Vs The Miz - NO - -1
Mark Henry Vs Chris Jericho Vs Daniel Bryan Vs Kane Vs Jack Swagger Vs Randy Orton (Elimination Chamber) - **** - 5
The Shield Vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - ***3/4 - 4
Dolph Ziggler Vs Kofi Kingston - NO - -1
Kaitlyn Vs Tamina Snuka - NO - -1
The Rock Vs CM Punk - **3/4 - 1


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't seen the show yet but Swagger won the chamber... seriously? I mean Del Rio/Swagger should be a fine match but Del Rio/Henry or Ziggler/Jericho would've been so much better. Don't see Swagger as even a remote threat to Del Rio after he beat Big Show three times in a row. I guess they really are behind Del Rio as world champion and want to give him a feel good win at Mania but beating Henry would've put him over so much more.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I think Henry's gonna have a little match with Orton at Mania, because they have a "mini feud" happening.

Del Rio/Swagger's fine because of the new direction both are heading. It'll be an "American vs. Mexico" type of feud which i'm fine with. I mean the World Title match isn't even a "main event" match anymore, it's the opener.

Ziggles will cash in on Del Rio after he wins anyway leading to their match at Extreme Rules.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really hope Orton wins if he and Henry have a WM match. Would much rather see Orton turn heel and face Jericho or Sheamus, though.

To those who are angry about Henry losing, just remember that things could be 10x worse than they are for him. You remember two years ago at this time? Well, I do. He was getting blindsided by Sheamus like a joke and then participated in a dance off contest with The Great Khali against the Usos. And I remember that period like it was yesterday. Amazing how much he turned it around by the end of the year.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Del Rio/Show - *** (oh boy @ the Del Rio botch)
Cesaro/Miz - *3/4
Elimination Chamber - *** 3/4
Shield/Supermen - *** 3/4
Ziggler/Kofi - **
Divas - 1/2*
Rock/Punk - *** 1/4

Swagger :lmao :lmao

So WWE think they can have Swagger job in every match for 6 months, take a 6 month gap, then suddenly thrust him into the world title scene at WrestleMania? Baffling. Swagger vs Del Rio! What a Mania! Henry was awesome and the run between the final 3 was very good. Makes sense that Bryan & Kane went first, but I expected one to eliminate the other.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The crowd is going to be mega hot for this heavily anticipated Del Rio/Swagger showdown, I'm sure.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Are they serious? The Wrestlemania World title match is Del Rio vs. Swagger? Those boring fucks?

:lmao

This show honestly had so much potential.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I think I'm part of a minority that think Swagger is vastly improved under this new gimmick. The music and the addition of Zeb are excellent choices.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't even give a fuck about Swagger winning because honestly the WHC match last year was essentially ON PAR with Orton/Kane, meaning that whatever the hell they do with Ryback-Sheamus (who will probably have a face vs face match where somebody goes heel), Jericho-DOLPH,, and Orton-Henry will essentially just be on par. Plus, I kind of like Swagger's stuff and I hope he can still be a great worker. I want the best MATCH DAMN IT.

YEAH EVERYBODY SHOULD WATCH THAT VIDEO NOW. Punk vs Lesnar is coming, I don't know WHEN, I don't know HOW, but Punk vs Lesnar is coming and it's going to be fucking awesome. Punk vs Lesnar would be a HUGE fucking match after Wrestlemania with Undertaker. Punk vs Rock, Taker, and Lesnar ? I DARE somebody to tell me that Punk isn't important in the company now .

EDIT: Oh My God....... The Rock just confirmed his appearance at Wrestlemania XXX......... GO AWAY DWAYNE JOHNSON ! This pretty much locks up either BROCK-ROCK or CENA-ROCK III......... Oh dear jesus..... It better not be the last one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I actually wouldn't be surprised by face/tweener Lesnar vs Punk for WM29 with Taker and HHH sitting this one out. BROCK destroys that little Punk for betraying Heyman. Then BROCK turns heel at the end of the night by costing THE ROCK his match with Cena, setting up ROCK/BROCK for WM30.

After all, Heyman tweeted this.

Unfortunately, I'm way too optimistic and will set myself up for disappointment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You actually might have something here. If anybody's going face though it's gotta be Punk, and I honestly wouldn't doubt it if he has a series of matches with BROCK to keep him away from Cena and the WWE Championship for a while. Of course at Mania Brock will CRUSH him so that Punk can take a few months off or something, but no doubt they'd have a series and they'd steal the show.

That's why I want old man Taker to come back and go full out GOAT mode at Mania and give us one of the greatest matches of this generation so that the fans are exhausted to shit by the time Rock-Cena II happens and it falls flat. If ANY TWO coud do that, it would be perhaps the greatest all around performer in WWE history and the greatest all around performer today.

If Taker goes out there like it's his last match and leaves it out there, it has that potential to be a generation defining match, and probably the second biggest moment of Punk's career (not too many moments top MITB 2011, nothing passes it really since.... Probably Mania XX).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched WM 1. Easier to watch than I thought it would be... even if most of it was bad . Got a higher score on the CAL SCALE that the RR this year :lmao.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well what do you expect when you compare a bucket of shit to a bucket of piss ? Both shows are absolutely terrible, Wrestlemanias I-IV were such a fucking chore to sit through honestly. I thought the main event was MEH for what it was and I thought the tag title match was pretty decent by Hulk Hogan ROCK N' WRASSLIN' standards .

The Royal Rumble on the other hand is in THIS ERA, where it is not fucking acceptable to have a show that's so bad, which makes it automatically ten times worse with all things considered.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I think this years Rumble was one of the worst PPV's i've ever seen


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Even with Swagger's new gimmick, Swagger/ADR does not scream Wrestlemania World Championship match to me. It'll probably be good, and I know how the World title has been treated recently, but it still doesn't seem like a Wrestlemania World title match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Time for me to say that I CALLED SWAGGER GETTING THE WIN!! Nobody cares but I called it lol. Fun show overall and if it wasn't official before then sure as hell is now, I am a mark for THE SHIELD. Jesus. These guys, all 3 of them, are a fucking TEAM. I love watching them. If I had to I'd go so far as to say that they captivate me during their matches and I honestly mean that. They've only had 2 but both times I was completely glued to the screen. What a match. Absolutely fantastic and my MOTN at ****1/4. I guess that makes it my current MOTY too since I don't think we've had anything of that quality so far. 

The SD Chamber was great and really picked up when Henry came in. Unfortunately the beginning portions of the match weren't up to the same standard but it was still pretty darn good and the finishing stretch was exciting as hell. I'd go ****1/4 for it as well. 

Rock/Punk was...boring. Didn't really dig it at all tbh. Slow, plodding, disjointed and not a lot of positives. The ending was lol once again. But hey, at least we have Rock/Cena II to look forward to now...

*Shield vs. Ryback/Cena/Seamus - ****1/4 MOTN & Current MOTY

SD Chamber - ****1/4

Miz/Cesaro - ***3/4

ADR/Show - ***1/4

Rock/Punk - **3/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> That's why I want old man Taker to come back and go full out GOAT mode at Mania and give us one of the greatest matches of this generation so that the fans are exhausted to shit by the time Rock-Cena II happens and it falls flat.


This soooo much, one reason why i want Taker fit and healthy, to steal the show once again and just say " Fuck Rock/Cena", 'cos nooone gives a flying fuck about it (apart from Rock marks of course, who cheer and like ever-fucking-thing he does),

Oh, that tweet by Heyman, not sure what to make of that, its plainly obvious were are getting Rock/Cena II, but i do want Brock facing someone elase other than HHH, but alas it'll probably be Lesnar/HHH II (even though there is no need for a bloody rematch IMO, it was settled, i dont give a flying fuck if Brock did fuck Vincey boy up either). 

At least with Brock signing for another two years (is that a lock now?), we will get some other fueds this year...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Miz/Cesaro - ***3/4


Is this one a typo? 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> You actually might have something here. If anybody's going face though it's gotta be Punk, and I honestly wouldn't doubt it if he has a series of matches with BROCK to keep him away from Cena and the WWE Championship for a while. Of course at Mania Brock will CRUSH him so that Punk can take a few months off or something, but no doubt they'd have a series and they'd steal the show.
> 
> That's why I want old man Taker to come back and go full out GOAT mode at Mania and give us one of the greatest matches of this generation so that the fans are exhausted to shit by the time Rock-Cena II happens and it falls flat. If ANY TWO coud do that, it would be perhaps the greatest all around performer in WWE history and the greatest all around performer today.
> 
> If Taker goes out there like it's his last match and leaves it out there, it has that potential to be a generation defining match, and probably the second biggest moment of Punk's career (not too many moments top MITB 2011, nothing passes it really since.... Probably Mania XX).


Hate to be a dream crusher, but once again, you're just hoping for the best from your perspective. 

No way should BROCK be wasted in a series of matches with Punk. And why should Punk turn face anyways? Since when do delusion sore losers turn face and it makes sense? BROCK and Heyman can turn because Punk goes ballistic on his manager and Heyman says all he was doing was try to help Punk (something he did for several months by bribing The Shield and Maddox) and now this is how he's being repaid. Then BORK comes out for the save and automatic face turn. Sure, it will discontinue the Vince vs Heyman storyline a few weeks ago but it's not like they haven't done that before and nobody wants HHH/Lesnar just for Hunter's return victory anyways.

It will be a quick run for BORK and he's back to being heel by the end of WM. Fans can easily get behind him as he already gets cheered. Then Punk keeps abusing and threatening Heyman as well as whining like only he can so when the big monster brings the pain, fans are happy since he shuts that loudmouth prick up!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Superteam vs The Shield

****1/4

Really enjoyed this match, thought The Sheild were fantastic, so great to see them win too, loved the Spear bit,
just a very fun match.

EC

****1/4

Again, just a very fun Cha,ber this year, some really nice spots, Henry fucking things up was fantastic, even when he was eliminated
he still came back to make a mess lol (Y)

Rock/Punk

**

Slightly better than the Rumble match, but fuck me did Rock do anything in the match apart from his main finishers, just
plodding, boring and all once again fell flat on its face IMHO. :no:

Couldnt really care less for the other matches tbh, im actually suprised how much i enjoyed the event tbh, thought it'd be total shit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ever Wolf said:


> Is this one a typo? 8*D


No lol. I really enjoyed it. Actually went back and watched it again and enjoyed it just as much the second time around. Loved the arm work from Cesaro, loved the selling from Miz, loved the little spurt of leg work from Miz towards the end and thought the finish was interesting. Both guys came out looking great and I'm actually looking forward to another match between them if it happens.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They're going to give Miz his big US Title victory at Mania, probably with Flair in his corner as he makes Cesaro tap to the figure four. I'm all for seeing the GOAT at Wrestlemania, but for fuck sakes can you put him with somebody a little better than MIZ? Flair-DOLPH would be epic, and you give AJ to DOLPH and Flair to THE FUCKING JIZ OF ALL PEOPLE ? Eh, atleast we get the GOAT...

Cena is the best possible opponent for ROCK besides Lesnar from an in ring standpoint and I'm not going to question that at all. Punk works a faster pace than Cena that doesn't really mesh that well with Rock, hence why they had to resort to Attitude Era type finishes for both matches to really make the matches "work" (they never ). Cena and Rock are going to take their time and hopefully work for 15-20 minutes, not trying to be overly epic, and with lots of callbacks to their previous match such as Cena actually HITTING the people's elbow and shit like that. Cena-Rock is like a poor man's Hogan-Warrior in the way their match worked.

EDIT : There's a little problem with that, and that's that Heyman can NEVER be a face. Punk can gain the fans sympathy in a feud with Lesnar/Heyman because Heyman is probably the greatest heel in the world right now and Brock is his human wrecking machine. Fuck, this can be more Punk vs Heyman with Brock being the guy who just fucks shit up. CENA IN CHICAGO GOT SYMPATHY AGAINST LESNAR FFS :lol !


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Del Rio/Show- **1/2
Cesaro/Miz- **
EC Match- ****
Shield/Justice League- ****1/4
Rock/Punk- **


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Del Rio/show - *1/2 

Cesaro/miz -	**

Smackdown EC -	****

Cena/ryback/sheamus/shield -	****	(show stealer)

Rock/punk -	*** Nothing special, but was way better than their rumble match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So with THE SHIELD beating basically the top 3 babyfaces in the company right now (Mr Part Timer doesn't count)... what the fuck do they do at WM? Pretty much any 3 man combination will just look like a step down tbh. And I don't really wanna see them going against Ryback AGAIN in anyway, shape or form. Everyone else that might look like a threat to them are seemingly locked into other matches for WM already.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> EDIT : There's a little problem with that, and that's that Heyman can NEVER be a face. Punk can gain the fans sympathy in a feud with Lesnar/Heyman because Heyman is probably the greatest heel in the world right now and Brock is his human wrecking machine. Fuck, this can be more Punk vs Heyman with Brock being the guy who just fucks shit up. CENA IN CHICAGO GOT SYMPATHY AGAINST LESNAR FFS :lol !


Also this, Punk should NEVER EVER be a face again. Do you remember the feud with Jericho last year? I was not on the hate bandwagon yet but his terrible acting and forced attempts at being "sympathetic" had me rooting against him more and more as the shit went on. And the funny thing is, I despise alcohol so that shouldn't have happened. Hell, I could very well consider that being the root of my complete heel turn against Punk in the past year.

I realize this is different with Brock squashing Punk around but after all the whining, I find it impossible to root for this guy ever again. And that's just from the kayfabe POV.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Hate to be a dream crusher, but once again, you're just hoping for the best from your perspective.
> 
> No way should BROCK be wasted in a series of matches with Punk. And why should Punk turn face anyways? Since when do delusion sore losers turn face and it makes sense? BROCK and Heyman can turn because Punk goes ballistic on his manager and Heyman says all he was doing was try to help Punk (something he did for several months by bribing The Shield and Maddox) and now this is how he's being repaid. Then BORK comes out for the save and automatic face turn. Sure, it will discontinue the Vince vs Heyman storyline a few weeks ago but it's not like they haven't done that before and nobody wants HHH/Lesnar just for Hunter's return victory anyways.
> 
> It will be a quick run for BORK and he's back to being heel by the end of WM. Fans can easily get behind him as he already gets cheered. Then Punk keeps abusing and threatening Heyman as well as whining like only he can so when the big monster brings the pain, fans are happy since he shuts that loudmouth prick up!


While in theory that'd work, in practice it'd fail miserably.

Heyman's just too much of a smarmy, pretentious, obnoxious manager who outside of old ECW fans, will never be able to get the crowd to sympathize with him. And Lesnar... Lesnar's just done too much to turn face at this point. He beat Cena within an inch of his life, he broke HBK and HHH's arms, and to top it all off he just came back, F-5'd Vince, and broke his pelvis or something like that (all in kayfabe of course). It'd be impossible for them to turn heel. 

Punk could however play the sympathetic babyface if they do the match, and for all the heel heat he can get when he talks, when he wrestles, he's nearly splitting the crowd with a guys like Rock and HHH, and in Rock's case, that's as a heel. They could easily change him to a face if they really wanted.

That being said, they shouldn't just yet, and it's why I believe a WM29 Lesnar/Punk match would be too early for such a match. Wait until Summerslam at the very least, or another big PPV over the course of the next year.



> Also this, Punk should NEVER EVER be a face again. Do you remember the feud with Jericho last year? I was not on the hate bandwagon yet but his terrible acting and forced attempts at being "sympathetic" had me rooting against him more and more as the shit went on. And the funny thing is, I despise alcohol so that shouldn't have happened. Hell, I could very well consider that being the root of my complete heel turn against Punk in the past year.
> 
> I realize this is different with Brock squashing Punk around but after all the whining, I find it impossible to root for this guy ever again. And that's just from the kayfabe POV.


The last paragraph says it all. YOU find it impossible to root for Punk ever again. A few others are the same, but Punk isn't that locked into heel-dom for the majority of casuals. That much is obvious from his reactions at RR and EC.

And I thought Punk did great as the sympathetic babyface, and despite the terrible premise the whole feud was built on, both Punk and Jericho made it as good as it could be in their respective roles.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lol at fans not getting behind Punk as a face.

He had the fans on his side facing the Rock a hell of a lot more then Cena the supposed top face in the company did.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk could turn face again tomorrow


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CM Punk is the anti John Cena. What I mean by that is look at all the things that Cena has done to win the crowd over (Make A Wish, "I'm ALWAYS HERE", a generally clean cut and NICE human being) and 30-60 percent of his reaction is BOOS. He's getting a reaction every time he steps through that curtain no matter what he does, and no matter how much of a good guy he's being painted as the crowd will always have a section that gives him shit.

Punk on the other hand, over the past year has teamed himself with the biggest natural scumbag heel in a long time (Paul E), faked heart attacks in the middle of the ring, beat the shit out of legends like Jerry Lawler, feuded with THE FUCKING ROCK, and still 30-60 percent of the audience wil chant his name everytime he goes through that curtain and performs. He's reached "anti John Cena" status in the fact that you're going to give him a reaction everytime. He sure as hell got a big reaction when he was wrestling ROCK twice, and these weren't people chanting "Let's Go ROCK! ROCKY SUCKS!" , these people were chanting for Punk.

Punk has a certain niche' of fans who will cheer for him no matter what, meaning that in order for a face turn to succeed he'd only need to gain support from the casuals, the same group of fans who can be tricked into chanting for fucking MIZ, so I don't think Punk would have a problem especially considering the fact that he'd be going against PAUL HEYMAN, who NO casual would cheer for.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Still have a feeling that Brock/Taker happens tbh. Not long until we start finding shit out though. I can wait. No idea who The Shield face at Mania now but that's something I _can't _wait to see. Special team.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> While in theory that'd work, in practice it'd fail miserably.
> 
> Heyman's just too much of a smarmy, pretentious, obnoxious manager who outside of old ECW fans, will never be able to get the crowd to sympathize with him. And Lesnar... Lesnar's just done too much to turn face at this point. He beat Cena within an inch of his life, he broke HBK and HHH's arms, and to top it all off he just came back, F-5'd Vince, and broke his pelvis or something like that (all in kayfabe of course). It'd be impossible for them to turn heel.
> 
> ...


Heyman is so damn good on the mic, he could as easily get fans on his side as he would turn them against him. Remember just three weeks ago he spoke about being impersonated as if he genuinely believed it and made it sound convincing. And Lesnar... it doesn't matter what he does. He's like Orton and Austin in the way that he can do anything you can think of and still get cheered for it. He's obviously different to those two since he has that legitimate background to him and complete badassness that he can actually get you to feel sorry for his opponent but if he's beating a pretentious, whiny jackass who can't back it up, I don't know why anyone would boo that!

And I'd rather this match doesn't happen but unfortunately, it looks to be and the sooner it's out of the way, the better for me.



> The last paragraph says it all. YOU find it impossible to root for Punk ever again. A few others are the same, but Punk isn't that locked into heel-dom for the majority of casuals. That much is obvious from his reactions at RR and EC.
> 
> And I thought Punk did great as the sympathetic babyface, and despite the terrible premise the whole feud was built on, both Punk and Jericho made it as good as it could be in their respective roles.


That's smarks who cheer him even if he would have kidnapped their families and tortured them. Casuals are sheep but I don't think they can so easily forget all the whining, insulting, and cheating Punk has done in the past few months in just a couple of weeks. But as I said, they are sheep so I could very well be wrong.

And of course you thought he did great, that's because he can do no wrong in your mind.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Still have a feeling that Brock/Taker happens tbh. Not long until we start finding shit out though. I can wait. No idea who The Shield face at Mania now but that's something I _can't _wait to see. Special team.


I'm certain Taker/Brock isn't happening, but I hope by some act of god it does. At the same time though, if Taker really is in such fragile condition as reports make him out to be, it'd be best to keep him far away from Lesnar.

And yeah, I wonder who Shield will face? They beat the ultimate team of faces WWE could put together, so what's next? Sheamus/Ryback/Orton? I'm certain Ryback or Orton is turning heel and feuding with Sheamus, so not them. Who else do the Shield have to beat?

The only thing I could maybe think of is if Taker does face Lesnar and Punk gets into the triple threat, they could have HHH, Road Dogg, and Billy Gunn team up as DX to face The Shield. I know it's not the ultimate DX team, but with HBK retired, it's the best they could do. But that's all I could think of for The Shield.



> That's smarks who cheer him even if he would have kidnapped their families and tortured them. Casuals are sheep but I don't think they can so easily forget all the whining, insulting, and cheating Punk has done in the past few months in just a couple of weeks. But as I said, they are sheep so I could very well be wrong.
> 
> And of course you thought he did great, that's because he can do no wrong in your mind.


It's clearly a lot more than just smarks cheering for Punk, buddy.

And yeah, Punk never does anything wrong. Most correct thing you've said all day. I remember marking out to his fake throwing-up during Nash/HHH's segment like it was yesterday.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

With the New Age Outlaws performing at House Shows I always thought they could do DX vs The Shield maybe as a way to get Triple H on the card and away from fucking LESNAR. I mean, that would be pretty logical wouldn't it ? Or maybe HHH/NAO/XPAC vs BROCK/AMBROSE/ROLLINS/REIGNS for control of the company or something in an all out fucking WAR. I know Pac and the NAO can still go too, and as a matter of fact I'd say that Pac is better than ever from an in ring standpoint.

FUCKING *RAWK* and myself on the same page ! FUCK YEAH  !

There's three options for Punk at this point : vs Taker, vs Lesnar, or a triple threat with Rock and Cena (1 percent chance, what the fuck are they going to do in those 3 weeks that ROCK's not even there?), and that's ALL.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Really? I found the SmackDown Chamber match more enjoyable then the Shield/Superfriends match. They were both very good though. To each his own I suppose.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

NAO & HHH vs Shield sounds like a great idea. HHH doesn't fit anywhere else on the card other than the dreaded BROCK rematch so he might as well put over SHIELD as they are on a roll.

And I sure as hell hope Orton is not wasted in a tag match against them. He should turn heel and feud with SHEAMUS or JERICHO or something.



The Rawk said:


> It's clearly a lot more than just smarks cheering for Punk, buddy.
> 
> And yeah, Punk never does anything wrong. Most correct thing you've said all day. I remember marking out to his fake throwing-up during Nash/HHH's segment like it was yesterday.


All I hear is deep male voices chanting his name, so looks like smarks to me.

And I wouldn't be surprised if you did. unk2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

why is everyone so against Brock/Trips again?

If they make it No holds barred or something then i'm all for it


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

ADR/Show **2/3
Chamber ****
Tag Match ***1/2
Rock/Punk **

Finish for Rock/Punk was straight WCW 2000. 

Calling it now . Cena beats Rock at WM 29 has a year long title reign and beats Rock who uses his re-match clause at WM 30. 

People don't want to see Brock/HHH cause its another episode in Trips getting his win back. People don't like predictability.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk has his core group of fans who are going to cheer for him no matter what. The fact that he managed to get such a split reaction against Rock of all people is all the proof you're going to need of that fact. When they go to smarkier towns, his support will obviously grow as those are the types of fans he appeals to most. When they go to more casual towns, his support will most likely wane because those aren't the types of fans he appeals to most. Wherever they are though, by this stage I think it's pretty clear that he has a niche fanbase who will cheer him whether he's heel or face.

Punk/Taker for the streak doesn't interest me in the slightest so I'm hoping that doesn't happen. I'd much rather have Taker/Brock. I could also live with HHH getting involved with The Shield. I think that would be pretty cool actually. Since Swagger/ADR is the WHC match, that leaves Jericho, Orton, Seamus, Henry, Show all free on the SD side of things. It will be interesting to see what happens with that lot.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I hope the NY/NJ crowd shits ALL over Rock/Cena II. That would instantly make that match a classic ala Lesnar/Goldberg :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Punk/Taker for the streak doesn't interest me in the slightest so I'm hoping that doesn't happen. I'd much rather have Taker/Brock. I could also live with HHH getting involved with The Shield. I think that would be pretty cool actually. Since Swagger/ADR is the WHC match, that leaves Jericho, Orton, Seamus, Henry, Show all free on the SD side of things. It will be interesting to see what happens with that lot.


Don't forget Ziggler. He'll most likely wrestle Jericho and it may or may not involve the briefcase/title. Orton will hopefully turn heel and go against Sheamus. Show will probably put over The Ryback and Henry... I don't know. Now that I think about it, Henry should've won last night. Swagger needed a lot more build before going to WM to have a title match. All I remember from him before last night was jobbing to Santino for the US Title several times, jobbing to everyone and anyone as well as beating an injured Zack Ryder for the US Title all while the jobber named Ryder kicked out of his Gutwrench Powerbomb finisher twice.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I hope ADR/Swagger opens the show then Ziggler chases in on the winner then we get Ziggler/Jericho for the title that night :mark:


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)




----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

So Rock is out for 2 weeks,this could mean Rock/Cena/Punk at Wrestlemania :hmm:.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Ever Wolf said:


> why is everyone so against Brock/Trips again?
> 
> If they make it No holds barred or something then i'm all for it


It was No Holds Barred the first time too... and that match was dogshit


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

It was NOT dogshit. Jesus christ. Enjoyable match. Nothing AMAZING, but FAR from "dogshit". 

That being said, NO interest in Lesnar/HHH II


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

ADR/Show - *1/2
Miz/Cesaro - ***
Chamber - ****
Shield/Superfriends - ***3/4
Punk/Rock - **

Wanted MARK to win the chamber but Swagger was my second choice. So happy they changed his theme too. I don't see the whole uproar over him getting the title match since it's probably the opener and it's gonna get overshadowed anyway. Build up could actually be fun too.

Miz/Cesaro was definitely the shock of the night and the Shield still owns. I love Ambrose and all but in terms of what they've done in the group Reigns impresses me the most


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Punter said:


> It was NOT dogshit. Jesus christ. Enjoyable match. Nothing AMAZING, but FAR from "dogshit".
> 
> That being said, NO interest in Lesnar/HHH II


That feud was a complete waste of time. Lesnar could have been much better utilized seeing as how he only has 3 PPV appearances in his current deal. Instead of potentially getting a quality match with someone like Sheamus, we got that borefest with HHH. 

This is not a knock against HHH as a worker because I think he's one of the best ever (especially in gimmick matches), but him and Lesnar just don't mesh well and I am not looking forward to a (possible) rematch between the two, even though there is literally NO reason for one, seeing as how Hunter TAPPED OUT the last time they fought. CLEAN.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Alim said:


> It was No Holds Barred the first time too... and that match was dogshit


Wrong on both accounts.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Thoughts on the show from elsewhere so apologies if people are confused by the mentions of Seabs:

Del Rio/Show was pretty fun. Show was great tossing Del Rio over the place and I liked Del Rio mixing up strikes with headbutts and submissions trying to find a way to keep Show down. Suicide dive by Del Rio was one of the best I've seen in WWE. Consistent length and looked impactful compared to Bryan and Punk who as much as I admire both have generally pretty weak looking dives which are usually more soft pushes into the barricade. Shame about the botch at the end and I echo Seabs' thoughts that dudes not really fighting to escape Del Rio's armbar is annoying.

Cesaro/Miz was fun. Cesaro had a bunch of good looking holds and ways to target the arm and the shoulderbreaker counter in mid air was wonderful. I'll give Miz credit, he pulled off the early quick hold trading and pin attempts well when he could have easily butchered them. Finish was creative as opposed to a typical WWE DQ but it just wasn't executed well enough. Cesaro didn't really look on the ropes as the legwork was brief, better timing and better execution and I wouldn't have hated it.

Chamber tbh I didn't love outside of Henry. Most of the exchanges just felt very tame and lacking in anything meaningful. Bryan honestly did next to nothing and the whole thing felt very disconnected and plodding. Henry was great just tossing dudes aside, taking great bumps for everything and injecting some excitement into the match. Bryan/Kane was wasted in terms of potentially breaking them up and I'm gutted Bryan had to be first out, though I guess Henry not winning and thus not staying much longer didn't annoy me as much as Bryan going early and Henry having Orton as the last guy to eliminate. Henry losing was irritating though he got the Cena '09 triple team to put him away. Swagger winning just feels eh. I'd have saved it for May-July when the product dips before MITB where they generally get a bit of resurgance. Henry going on a tear, losing to Del Rio & immediately transitioning to a rampage on Raw would have been fine by me and Del Rio-Swagger could have made for an entertaining feud in the filler months.

Really dug the Shield 6 man. Great heat segment on Cena and once again the booking and presentation of The Shield stood out the most. Great cut offs and constantly overwhelming Cena at every turn and looking like a well oiled unit. I see Seabs' point about Rollins still wrestling like a face but at least here he was used more as the cut off guy using his agility to keep Cena down at crucial moments and leaving Ambrose and Rollins to do more of the work. Ambrose went a bit over the top with the constant tongue wagging, but you could sense the passion and emotion in everything he did and I loved his erratic and 100mph offence in short bursts. Ryback domination was done well and fuck it, I loved the barricade bump. Looked by far the most impressive of the lot they've done in the past month and Lillian nearly being crushed just added to the insanity and chaos it brought about. Shame they've done so many because it looked a great bump and was a terrific way to eliminate Sheamus. Loved Reigns being able to come back from Cena blocking the powerbomb and The Shield stealing the win, They looked excellent and a threat throughout and winning in the blink of an eye was the right way to put them over.

Ziggler/Kofi, I skipped to the finish. Thought the front suplex off the top onto the turnbuckle was a pretty unexpected spot for a filler PPV match, but AJ in those shorts was all I took from this. Those thighs man. I'd love to wriggle in between them.

Main Event wasn't much. Very good Punk performance as the in control douche and he sold the frustration and contrasting emotions well. Special mention to him blowing a kiss to Rock's mum before eating the first Rock Bottom. Rock was sub par. Just did nothing, looked exhausted again and really seems to be struggling to work as a base during the middle portion. Punk was turning up his performance as a character as far as he could to compensate for the pace of the match, but it wasn't enough. Some meaty strikes from both men and the adult male crowd being vocally behind Punk with a 'Rocky sucks' chant breaking out at the start surprised me. Imagine the Rock fans probably had a prolapse when that happened.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> Wrong on both accounts.


No DQ/No Countout, Street Fight, No Holds Barred... it's all the same


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Alim said:


> No DQ/No Countout, Street Fight, No Holds Barred... it's all the same


HHH asking the ref to not count them out or DQ them so they could fight is hardly the same as no holds barred. They didn't use any weapons...


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Alim said:


> That feud was a complete waste of time. Lesnar could have been much better utilized seeing as how he only has 3 PPV appearances in his current deal. Instead of potentially getting a quality match with someone like Sheamus, we got that borefest with HHH.
> 
> This is not a knock against HHH as a worker because I think he's one of the best ever (especially in gimmick matches), but him and Lesnar just don't mesh well and I am not looking forward to a (possible) rematch between the two, even though there is literally NO reason for one, seeing as how Hunter TAPPED OUT the last time they fought. CLEAN.


The feud WAS completely underwhelming as whole, but I never mentioned the feud. I just said the match was good, which it was. It was stupid of them to have Lesnar go in a straight singles match (Yes, I know it was technically no-dq, but Lesnar isn't in his element until he can use weapons, or even HHH for that matter). If you went in thinking it was going to be a 5 star classic, then fuck yeah it was probably underwhelming. Re watch the match, I'll guarantee you'll like it the second time around like I did. You legit sound like I did before I rewatched that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

6 matches in to WM 2. -2 on the Cal Scale. Shaping up to be perhaps the worst event of all time!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's because Wrestlemania II is horrendous, though not as bad as Wrestlemania I or IV .

In other news, I actually can't wait for RAW tonight. Of course I'll be skipping all ROCK segments (the ones he has on his own which make me not want to be a wrestling fan) unless they involve Punk/Cena/etc just to see where they go from here. I just hope we actually know what's going on by the end of the night instead of leaving us speculating for another fucking week. I hate these cockteases when we ALL KNOW what we're getting by now, so they might as well just come out and say it FFS. 

Honestly, even if the show started with Vince McMahon coming to the ring and saying "We're doing rematch-mania this year. Stop speculating and bitching about how you aren't going to buy the show when we both know you will... Bitches" ... NO CHANCE THAT'S WHAT CHA GOT.... 

Is BROCK scheduled to appear tonight ? If so, then it's must see TV to see what piece of furniture he's going to make his bitch next.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not as bad as WM 1? Hmmm... it's looking a LOT worse so far to me lol . 4 matches to go. Made it to 0 on the Cal Scale now .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Could be worse, could be Wrestlemania III AKA the most overrated show of all time .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM III at least has one match that will likely put it ahead of WM 1 and 2 .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh NO DOUBT Mania III is ahead of I, II, and IV by quite a margin, but that's just because those three are some of the worst shows of all time. It's quite laughable how people love to say that IX is the worst Wrestlemania ever when I have two matches at IX that are ****+* , something I can't say about I, II, or IV. I think most people who say that Wrestlemania I is a middle of the pack Mania CLEARLY haven't seen it. It's like a fucking house show in Madison Square Garden with celebrities really.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Oh NO DOUBT Mania III is ahead of I, II, and IV by quite a margin, but that's just because those three are some of the worst shows of all time. It's quite laughable how people love to say that IX is the worst Wrestlemania ever when I have two matches at IX that are ****+* , something I can't say about I, II, or IV. I think most people who say that Wrestlemania I is a middle of the pack Mania CLEARLY haven't seen it. It's like a fucking house show in Madison Square Garden with celebrities really.


How about Wrestlemania 9 and 11?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar was fucking garbage. My expectations are so low for 'Mania it's incredible.

Elimination Chamber:

EC Match: ***1/2
The Shield vs. Cena/Ryback/Sheamus: ***1/2
The Rock vs. CM Punk: ***1/4

Rock/Punk wasn't as good as their Rumble match. Shield winning was a nice surprise and I'm becoming such a mark for Roman Reigns. The dude is awesome. Those three matches were all decent to great, but my MOTY remains Punk/Jericho from RAW.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar/HHH wasn't bad, but not great either, and certainly didn't live up to expectations. However, Lesnar/HHH was a dream match, and it did have to happen, and it's great that it did. It doesn't need to happen again though, especially since their first match was so underwhelming. That being said, it's all but confirmed at this point. If Taker/Punk happens, then that only furthers the fact it's happening.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for HHH/Lesnar. Blew my low expectations away. I have little faith in HHH doing anything good these days regardless of his opponent. Went into his WM matches with Undertaker not expecting much too, and that was against THE FUCKING UNDERTAKER. A rematch between HHH and Brock COULD be good again, but fuck I just don't care. I don't want to see it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemanias I, II, IV, IX, XI, and XV are all HORRIBLE shows.

Wrestlemania III isn't NEARLY as bad as any of those shows,but I hear people talking about it like it's a top 3 Mania when it's not. As a matter of fact, I can name four out of the first ten Wrestlemanias that are superior to that show in every single way. If Steamboat-Savage wasn't on that show than it would join the completely horrendous Manias I listed above. It's just a little below average show with a really good match on it, definitely in the bottom half of Wrestlemania events as far as I'm concerned.

Most of the first 15 Wrestlemanias are horribly overrated or BAD in general anyways, we have NO FUCKING IDEA how lucky we have it sometimes. I'm not even AT 27 yet and I'd still have it over like atleast 10 other Wrestlemanias at this point.

EDIT: BROCK-GAME was Hunter's best match in a really, really long fucking time IMO, better than both Undertaker matches... Seriously. It was his best match since 2005 honestly, and literally 90 percent of that has to do with BROCK FUCKING LESNAR and his GOAT presence and aura. It's not that I don't want to see BROCK-GAME the MATCH, I don't want to sit through what's probably going to be 7 weeks of terrible build up. That's my problem with Mania this year, not the matches themselves but the buid up to them being absolutely horrendous.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk/Rock> EC>RR anyday of the week for me.

A much better match in terms of storytelling and it was even. Punk at least kicked out of The Rock Bottom (and a people's elbow I believe too?) This was a much, much better outing. I'll go a very high ***1/2 on it.

As for the rest of the card, I found EC to be an okay PPV. It got the job done of furthering and developing storylines for Mania. Match quality wise (DEM SNOWFLAKES!!!) it wasn't much. I wouldn't care to re-watch any match from the show. The chamber match disappointed as well. Not because of the winner but because I just found it lacking. Maybe the 2005 and 2011 chamber matches spoiled me. I'll go ***1/2 on it since it was good but not as great as others have been.

The 6 man tag was good as well. Nice little match. I was expecting the epicness of the TLC bout but the match was pretty decent. ***1/2 as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock/Punk from last night was better than the Rumble match, not like it MEANS ANYTHING. Rock/Cena was better than both combined honestly, they just work together better because Cena works at a slower pace and they can do the whole "Hogan-Warrior" big match type thing where they exchange clotheslines and all that bullshit.


----------



## Brogue_Kick (Sep 11, 2011)

Punk vs Rock at EC is better than the one at the RR for me too. 

Yesterday they both were booked strong, CM Punk lost but he didn't look weak at all

*** in my opinion


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well... I'm seriously doubting that ANY WM event is gonna be worse than WM 2. WM 1 is SEVEN TIMES BETTER in terms of the CAL SCALE. And WM 1 sucked.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Only thing I'm interested in for Mania is what SHIELD will be doing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk looks strong as ever now. I guess they didn't want to make him look like a little bitch for when he has to take on THE UNDERTAKER and the fucking STREAK. The only question is how the fuck does this all work ? Does Taker ask for the match, or does Punk ask for it ? You would have to assume that Taker asks for it since I expect a rant about how he's still champion and how he pinned the Rock and stuff like that.

The only thing is ; the story does NOT seem like Punk is headed for The Streak at all, and it actually seems like they're heading for either a Triple Threat or Brock-Punk. The only reason I'm assuming we're getting the EPIC streak match is because the dirtsheets told me so :lol .

All three matches would be amazing for different reasons IMO ; Triple Threat because PUNK gets his Mania main event, Brock-Punk because it's two of my three all time favorites going at it and it's completely original unlike Brock-HHH, and Punk-Taker because it has the highest potential of the three to be MOTN and subsequently MOTY.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I had one major problem with Rock/Punk last night. This may seem like nitpicking and it may not mean to shit to most people but when The Rock got into the ring after going through the table to end the 10 count, CM Punk turned around way too fast. Yeah, I know, over-exaggerating right?

But it's those little things that piss me off. I'm all for getting the most out of nothing in pro wrestling. Punk's back was turned to The Rock, therefore he should have been unaware of Rock entering. So what he should have done was sit there and take it all in, big grin on his face, thinking he's all won then bam! He realizes the crowd is suddenly cheering so he's all confused and turns around and surprised to see what awaits him. But to just spin around like that and attack him, just lacks drama. You know? It lacks any sort of emotion.

Again, to most this is nitpicking. But shit, like I said, it's cool to get a reaction from jumping off a ladder. It's impressive to get a reaction from just pulling down a strap on your singlet. 

It's moments like that that make question's Punk's ability as a worker. As a matter of fact, I don't think much of him as a worker tbh. I mean sometimes he can be great, other times he's questionable. I have Punk nowhere in a top 10. Top 10 promo guys, maybe. Workers? Hell no. Then again a lot of guys who I am huge fans of I'll put nowhere in a top 10. Jericho, for example, is a guy who I'm a huge fan of but he's nowhere in atop 10 of mine or 20.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't really understand that. The ref stopped the count and the bell would have rang had Rock not made the count, not sure how Punk could sit there oblivious to the fact the bell hadn't sounded with the crowd cheering Rock making the count and not look like the biggest idiot in the world. Plus Punk is arguably the only guy working at the moment who likes to add the little details into matches. Bryan is another but he's currently stuck in a comedy character rut which limits his work. Punk's about as good a guy as WWE have in terms of adding little touches and doing simple things others probably wouldn't think to do. Even things last night like pulling the tights of Rock to maintain a hold and stop him breaking free, and blowing a kiss to Rock's mom seconds before he was met by the first Rock Bottom. Then you have the way he worked his knee injury into the match at the Rumble, selling it after a dropkick off the ropes without any reason to do so other than to work fans into thinking the bum kneee might have given out on him.

Punk isn't 'amazing' as a worker. But he's very good and has a clear old school appreciation and approach to his work and craft. You can tell this is a man who wants to add unique touches and make subtle moments matter in the greater context. Execution can be sloppy and he needs to stop overestimating his athleticism, but he has enough structure and sense in mapping out a coherent match to overcome some issues of execution.

There are times when gaps in logic are present, but I don't see how Punk immediately registering Rock had made the count counts as one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk has worked with either Ryback or Rock for his last FOUR PPV matches, and even managed to drag an almost ****** match out of Ryback at the beginning of the year. I'd EASILY put Punk as a top two worker in the company right now with Daniel Bryan who I don't think gets a fair shake due to booking putting him in strictly tag scenarios most of the time. Over the last two years though, I don't think anybody in the company even comes CLOSE to the work Punk has put in show in and show out.

Sure, Cena may have had the MOTY in 2012 but I'd attribute a ton of that to BROCK having the GOAT heel control segment in that Extreme Rules match. I would easily without a shadow of a doubt say Punk is the best all around talent in the WWE right now by a fair margin due to Bryan not getting a chance to shine properly, Cena having a god awful character that has been overdone way too many times, and.... Yeah that's about it.

When it comes to In ring work/Mic work combined, there's Punk in one stratosphere and everybody else in the other IMO. Bryan, Cena, Sheamus, Jericho, and Henry could be right there soon enough if some aspects of their game get stepped up real soon, and it's only a matter of time before Bryan is a singles worker again and the probable BEST IN THE COMPANY.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like how the announce table didn't break, probably because they under-gimmicked it so it would actually break b/c Dwyane's roided ass collapsed the thing at the Rumble without actually hitting the Rock Bottom.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH asking the ref to not count them out or DQ them so they could fight is hardly the same as no holds barred. They didn't use any weapons...


Either way it was a No DQ match, No Holds Barred, whatever you want to call it. 



Punter said:


> The feud WAS completely underwhelming as whole, but I never mentioned the feud. I just said the match was good, which it was. It was stupid of them to have Lesnar go in a straight singles match (Yes, I know it was technically no-dq, but Lesnar isn't in his element until he can use weapons, or even HHH for that matter). If you went in thinking it was going to be a 5 star classic, then fuck yeah it was probably underwhelming. Re watch the match, I'll guarantee you'll like it the second time around like I did. You legit sound like I did before I rewatched that match.


I will save a re-watch for when I have literally NOTHING else to watch which won't be for... awhile. Fuck that match and fuck that show altogether. 

Summerslam has been pure garbage ever since they've decided that LA is it's official home which it has been for the past 4 years. 2011 was the only decent show and that's only because of the main event.

Hopefully this year it'll be good with the rumoured Lesnar/Rock match. I would drive down to LA to see that one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Here's an interesting question...

"Better worker" : Miz as WWE Champion in 2010/2011 , or Rock as WWE Champion in 2013 :lol :lol ?

What's sad is that I'm being 100 percent serious. The Miz matches against Jerry Lawler have been worth more to me from a work standpoint than Rock's entire reign probably will.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cannot be answered until Rock defends his belt against Lawler .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Miz got a good match out of Jerry Lawler, so him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Actually Lawler got a good match out of Miz.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, I don't really want to get into a deep discussion since that's like comparing who's the most attractive patient in a burns unit. But Rock hasn't had a match better since returning than Miz/Lawler EC 2011, so yeah.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh gosh, I'm saying Punk should have sat for a good 5 minutes until he finally figured Rock's back in the ring but at least add a little drama to it, you know? The ref's counting Usually the refs take a little pause in between counts. So say, the ref reaches 8. Punk sits there expecting 9 but realizes there's no 9. The he turns around. He just spins around the moment the ref says 8. 

Oh and I found Ryback/Punk TLC to be terrible. Extremely terrivle. But that was all Ryback being a complete doofus and no selling the leg work. 

As for top workers in the company atm, oh yeah Punk is definitely there. I won't put Bryan there because right now his comedy gimmick doesn't really allow to work a style like a Punk or Cena and in terms of comedy wrestling I'd put Santino and Slater over him.

The top workers in the WWE right now for me are Punk, Cena, Show, Del Rio, Henry, Mysterio (for consistency) and believe it or not Damien Sandow. I think he's one of the best workers in the company but the recognition he gets on these boards is more for his character and mic work, than his actual in-ring work.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Alim said:


> Miz got a good match out of Jerry Lawler, so him.


Try the reverse. Everything good in that match stemmed from Lawler's story and desire to finally achieve his dream. It was a simple, well worked match which didn't attempt to deviate from a basic structure to get the story across clearly. Lawler might be past his peak but he still knew even in 2011 how to put together a match that could be very good in spite of his age and limited ability compared to his peak.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This is just depressing. When was the last Championship Reign that went over 50 days that was worse than Rock's current reign in terms of terrible matches coupled with some of the most god awful main event promos we've ever seen  ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I recall Lawler/Miz TLC on RAW but not the EC match at all. 

But come on, you can't compare Miz's reign to Rock's. Two completely different and horrible things. I would say though, Rock has Miz beat in one aspect when comparing their title reigns- $$$$$$$$$

I just want to know one thing. Why was Miz vs Cena so fucking horrible? Quite possibly one of the worst Wrestlemania main events in the last 20 years. I wouldn't even call a match like Orton/HHH terrible. It was just disappointing and shouldn't have been worked the way it was given the feud. But Cena/Miz was just...ahhhhhhhhhh!!!

It's strange considering that they had quite an exciting bout on RAW the night of Rock's Birthday.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Answers to both of the questions above my post...Cena. :troll

but kinda..


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watch Miz/Cena from the night after Extreme Rules. Good match.



Big Z said:


> Actually Lawler got a good match out of Miz.


^^^^^^^^That.


Miz wins though. He had the 2/3 falls match with Morrison which I didn't think was great, but better than every Rock match since 2003.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock's title reign beats the Miz reign in terms of storylines because Punk - Rock feud beats any feud Miz had during his reign. Can't really judge the title reigns on matches though. Rock's match with Punk yesterday was good IMO but it's too early to say whether his reign is good or bad when it comes to matches because Rock still has that match with Cena.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Miz/Lawler's EC match I need to re-watch, but I don't remember it being that great. In the ***-***1/2, but I'd easily put the two Rock matches above it. Miz/Lawler TLC I had at a solid ***1/2. However Miz/Morrison, the first Raw of 2011 I believe, was Miz's best match of his title run imo. I have it above Rock/Punk rumble but not the EC match last night.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> I had one major problem with Rock/Punk last night. This may seem like nitpicking and it may not mean to shit to most people but when The Rock got into the ring after going through the table to end the 10 count, CM Punk turned around way too fast. Yeah, I know, over-exaggerating right?
> 
> But it's those little things that piss me off. I'm all for getting the most out of nothing in pro wrestling. Punk's back was turned to The Rock, therefore he should have been unaware of Rock entering. So what he should have done was sit there and take it all in, big grin on his face, thinking he's all won then bam! He realizes the crowd is suddenly cheering so he's all confused and turns around and surprised to see what awaits him. But to just spin around like that and attack him, just lacks drama. You know? It lacks any sort of emotion.
> 
> ...


*Punk can see behind him on the massive screen btw.*


Alim said:


> Miz got a good match out of Jerry Lawler, so him.


:bosh2

*How are the two title runs even comparable? Rock/Punk and Cena/Miz could be compared but Rock's only had two matches this year with the same guy compared to all the variety Miz's run had.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About to watch HHH-Orton from Wrestlemania XXV, and damn this buildup was something else. I'm getting goosebumps because of how great this build was. I can't fucking WAIT to see how they fucked this up once again, fantastic. I'm probably going to hurt somebody or something out of pure RAGE once I watch this, it's going to be unreal.

HOW DID THEY FUCK THIS FUCKING MATCH UP ?!?!?!?! UGH.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Christ that main event with Triple H/Orton was the biggest flop i can remember.

The buildup was so personnel and heated and then they went and had such a boring, slow match at the MAIN EVENT of WRESTLEMANIA.

The only good match Orton/HHH had was their Rumble 05 one i can't remember a better match between them than that other than when Regal turned off the lights in 08


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THEY HAD A FEW GOOD LAST MAN STANDING MATCHES rton .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Holy shit i forgot about that. 

Was it No Mercy 07? I need to watch that shit again then


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No Mercy 2007. ***** 1/4* and one of the best matches in Orton's entire career. They also had a last man standing on RAW in 2009 that was pretty good, and a LMS in 2008 that was cut short due to Orton destroying his clavicle.

They've had two "good" matches and one awesome match together. The rest range from mediocre to downright HORRENDOUS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No Mercy 07 LMS is a classic. And that brings me to this: Why is Orton's lengthy title reign so underrated? He didn't have a single bad PPV defense.

- NM with HHH = AWESOME
- CS with HBK = VERY GOOD
- SVS with HBK = AWESOME
- ARM with Y2J = VERY GOOD
- RR with Jeff Hardy = GOOD
- NWO with CENA = GREAT
- WM with CENA & HHH = GREAT
- BL Four Way = GOOD


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

- NM with HHH = Will re-watch
- CS with HBK = Good
- SVS with HBK = Awesome
- ARM with Y2J = Meh
- RR with Jeff Hardy = Okay, smoothest RKO ever
- NWO with CENA = Great
- WM with CENA & HHH = Not Bad
- BL Four Way = Not Bad

It's a good reign. Nowhere near Punk's 

I'm watching the 2009 slammys (skimming through) Cena just beat Punk CLEAN in 2 MINUTES? WHAT. THE. FUCK?

EDIT: Orton just BEAT UNDERTAKER by countout IN 3 MINUTES.

Fuck Raw 2009


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

- NM with HHH = Awesome
- CS with HBK = Good
- SVS with HBK = Awesome
- ARM with Y2J = Average
- RR with Jeff Hardy = Mediocre
- NWO with CENA = Great
- WM with CENA & HHH = Good
- BL Four Way = Average

Pretty good title reign all things considered.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've been hearing so much about that LMS between Cena and Orton at No Mercy and I've yet to see it. Gotta check it out some time.

And glad to see Cena/Orton/HHH WM 24 getting some love.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

- NM with HHH = Awesome (****)
- CS with HBK = Decent (**3/4)
- SVS with HBK = Borderline classic (****1/4)
- ARM with Y2J = Mediocre (**1/4)
- RR with Jeff Hardy = Great (***3/4)
- NWO with CENA = Awesome (****)
- WM with CENA & HHH = Great (***1/2)
- BL Four Way = Average (**1/2)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've been hearing so much about that LMS between Cena and Orton at No Mercy and I've yet to see it. Gotta check it out some time.


 It's between HHH and Orton.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

- NM with HHH = ****1/4
- CS with HBK = ***
- SVS with HBK = ****1/4
- ARM with Y2J = ***
- RR with Jeff Hardy = ***1/4
- NWO with CENA = ****
- WM with CENA & HHH = ***1/4
- BL Four Way = **

Very good run of PPV matches except for the 4 way that I found to be dull as shit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Armageddon with Jericho was a lot better than the lot of you say. For once, a match between them that got a decent amount of time. Only problem is the stupid DQ finish. If they wanted to protect Jericho, they should've just had a ref bump after which JBL clotheslines Jericho.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


> It's between HHH and Orton.


Don't know how I ended up typing Cena in there. Must be my inner-Cena mark coming out 

Judging from what people have been saying looks like I need to check out Orton/HHH LMS, Cena/Orton NWO and Orton/HBK SVS.

What do you guys think about Cena's 2006-2007 reign? I thought it was one of the best damn runs of all time and completely blows Punk's out the water. Cena was, no doubt, THE GUY by 2007.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Never seen Orton/Triple H (No Mercy) maybe cause Orton reign was so bad, had flashbacks to Triple H's reigns with those boring opening promos.



Ever Wolf said:


> -
> I'm watching the 2009 slammys (skimming through) Cena just beat Punk CLEAN in 2 MINUTES? WHAT. THE. FUCK?
> 
> EDIT: Orton just BEAT UNDERTAKER by countout IN 3 MINUTES.
> ...


Remember that, Cena was sad and said he let the fans down.
He goes from losing the title to rookie Sheamus, to beating Punk & Orton in the same night to win Superstar of the Year :no:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Seriously i don't know why i've gone back and watched what i'd missed in 2009. There was a reason i'd missed it


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Orton/HHH LMS from No Mercy never really interested me but I rewatched it not that long ago and it was really great. Very pleasant surprise. Orton/Shawn from S.Series is awesome. Not huge on the Cena NWO match but a lot of others are.

And yes Cena's 06 run was brilliant. Very good match with Khali. Summed his year up.*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> What do you guys think about Cena's 2006-2007 reign? I thought it was one of the best damn runs of all time and completely blows Punk's out the water. Cena was, no doubt, THE GUY by 2007.


vs Edge TLC - ★★★★½
vs Edge Steel Cage - ★★★¾
vs Umaga NYR - Haven't seen it
vs Umaga LMS - ★★★★½
vs HBK WM23 - ★★★½
Fatal Four Way BL - ★★★★½
vs Khali JD - ★½
vs Khali ONS - ★
Five Pack Challenge VEN - ★★★
vs Lashley TGAB - ★★★★
vs Orton SS - ★★★★
vs Orton UNF - ★


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

sharkboy22 said:


> Don't know how I ended up typing Cena in there. Must be my inner-Cena mark coming out
> 
> Judging from what people have been saying looks like I need to check out Orton/HHH LMS, Cena/Orton NWO and Orton/HBK SVS.
> 
> What do you guys think about Cena's 2006-2007 reign? I thought it was one of the best damn runs of all time and completely blows Punk's out the water. Cena was, no doubt, THE GUY by 2007.


It was a great reign, but wouldn't put above Punk. In terms of matches-

Cena's PPV Title reign matches:

vs. Edge Unforgiven 06- ****
vs. Booker T vs. Big Show CS through Armageddon 06- Can't remember these matches well enough to judge. Triple threat wasn't that great from what I remember.
vs. Umaga NYR 07- ***
vs. Umaga RR 07- ****1/2
w/HBK vs. Taker/Batista- ****
vs. HBK WM23- ****
vs. HBK vs. Orton vs. Edge BL 07- ****1/4
vs. Khali JD 07- DUD
vs. Khali ONS 07- *3/4
5-pack challenge NOC 07- ***
vs. Lashley GAB 07- ***3/4
vs. Orton SS 07- ****
vs. Orton Unforgiven 07- *3/4

Punk's PPV matches reign:

vs. Del Rio SVS 11- ***3/4
vs. Del Rio vs. Miz TLC 11- ***3/4
vs. Ziggler RR 12- ***1/2
WWE Title EC- ***1/4
vs. Jericho WM28- ****1/4
vs. Jericho ER 12- ***3/4
vs. Bryan OTL 12- *****
vs. Bryan vs. Kane NWO 12- ***3/4
vs. Bryan MITB 12- ***1/4
vs. Cena vs. Big Show SS 12- **1/2
vs. Cena NOC 12- ****
vs. Ryback HIAC 12- ***
vs. Ryback vs. Cena SVS 12- ***
vs. Rock RR 13- ***3/4


In terms of promos/segments, wouldn't put it above Punk's either. Overall feuds though I'd give it to Cena, though Punk's feud with Rock is the best of both feuds imo. Problem with Punk's reign is besides that, his feuds were very forgettable while Cena had good-great feuds with Edge (which ended almost as soon as Cena's reign started), Orton, and HBK. I actually enjoyed the HBK feud quite a bit. The Orton feud really only took off after SS, and was unfortunately cut short.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've seen RAW 2009 packs on XWT and I think to myself "who in their right mind would want to download that" That's one year for RAW I'll never want to revisit. So many bad memories. The product was consistently awful. I think what RAW 2009 suffered from apart from the terrible Summer of guests hosts, is that it was really a new starting point for the company. I mean, people say the midcrad is weak today, but 2009 midcard was just unwatchable. No personalities, no characters, no nothing.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm not in my right mind, so it's all good 8*D

Watching some ECW 09 makes it all balance out :mark:


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> vs Khali JD - ★½


*You missed at least 2 alt-8's off.*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Here's my reviews of Cena's reign. I'm just going off of memory here as it's been quite a while since I've seen this matches and I've never seen the Kahli match or the Orton from SS or the random tag matches or that stupid triple threat with K-Fed getting himself involved.

Cena vs Edge Unforgiven 2006 ★★★★½
Cena vs Edge Steel Cage ★★★¾
Cena vs Umaga LMS ★★★★½
Cena vs HBK WM 23 ★★★★
Cena vs Lashley GAB 2007 ★★★★

Wow,I guess I haven't seen much of the reign. I've yet to watch the BL fatal 4 way, although I recall the following night on RAW they showed still motions clips (something I realize they barely do these days and it had some sweet ass conter sequence at the end. I never saw vs Umaga RR and I've heard some good things about the 5 pack challenge. Also, what the heck is vs Orton UNF?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/Orton Unforgiven 07 was a feud-advancer, nothing more. Cena gets himself DQ'd out of rage for Orton punting his daddy, daddy punts Orton while Cena has the STF locked in... the match itself wasn't supposed to be good or anything, it was just there to further the feud.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm willing to watch 2009 at some point down the line. Mainly because of Orton, though. He's the top heel and even if HHH killed his momentum, I gotta see his entire career!



Seabs said:


> *You missed at least 2 alt-8's off.*


What does that type? I tried alt-8 and I got ◘. Only know alt-0188 89 and 90. If you mean the match is even worse than that, then I can understand. I used to think it's 0 worthy too but then I read Segunda/WOOLCOCK's take on the match and it just changed my view on it and I started appreciating a bit more.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Have only seen 5 title matches from Cena's 2006-2007 reign, Umaga (NYR), HHH (WM), Michaels (WM), RVD (ONS) & Khali (ONS).


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*:lmao I'm such a tool. ***1/2 match btw. It's GOOD.*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Seabs said:


> *:lmao I'm such a tool. ***1/2 match btw. It's GOOD.*


Aaah. It's definitely good for Khali standards but I would still not go that far with it. My favorite Khali match is No Mercy with Batista. ★★½ for that one. 

And ★ is actually what I *don't* use any alt codes for. I just search on google and copy it whenever I need it.

Speaking of 2006. FOLEY JUST TURNED HEEL! JD and ONS right around the corner and DX 'bout to reunite!


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Fuck the haters of 2012. 

Foley and Punk promo from September was fantastic.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I seem to be the only person who likes the Backlash '08 four way more than the Wrestlemania 24 triple threat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> I think I'm part of a minority that think Swagger is vastly improved under this new gimmick. The music and the addition of Zeb are excellent choices.


(Y)

Spot on.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> I seem to be the only person who likes the Backlash '08 four way more than the Wrestlemania 24 triple threat.


I like that Backlash 4-way, solid match. I haven't seen the WM24 triple threat in a long time, but I remember being a little underwhelmed by it. So I'd potentially put the Backlash match above it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I like that Backlash 4-way, solid match. I haven't seen the WM24 triple threat in a long time, but I remember being a little underwhelmed by it. So I'd potentially put the Backlash match above it.


I like the triple threat too and thought it was good. Guess I just rate the four way higher than most.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

People can shit on RAW 2009 all they want, but it did produce 2 really great matches. One being Cena vs. Michaels from 1/26 (**** 1/4) that's loaded with some amazing character work from Shawn & the other being HHH vs. Orton Last Man Standing match from 6/22 (*** 3/4) that's got some great selling from the game & some brutal looking spots as well.

Comparing Miz's title reign to Rock's current one isn't fair just yet but I may be the only one that actually won't complain about Miz's reign. Sure the match quality was down a little but Miz actually brought a lot of meaning back to the title by having a longer reign & he was booked pretty straong for the most part. Plus he had that AWESOME Falls Count Anywhere Match with Morrison that I guarantee will be better than anything Rock does this year.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Has the empty arena match between Rock & Foley been released on DVD?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top 50 Superstars DVD IIRC .

Let's not forget the HHH-Cena match from 2009 either!


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*The Shield vs. Sheamus, Ryback, and Chris Jericho - Raw 02/18/2013*

This was a fucking great match I tell you. Better than the one last night, and that one was good too. But this one was something else. The Shield did their thing as usual, but Chris Jericho really added a whole other dimension this time instead of Cena. All three of the young guys are just so good at selling it's ridiculous. The little things they do makes them seem like they are 15 year veterans, but they aren't. Just small things like Rollins trying to hit Sheamus as the bounced off the ropes near him, Ambrose's facial expressions, and Roman Reigns' intensity. These guys truly are something special. The crowd was hot for this match as well which really added to it. Ryback and Sheamus did a good job selling Shield's offense too. The thing I didn't like about last night's match was the ending, it made Ryback look kind of weak, but Jericho taking a springboard knee to the head was a great and unique way to end the match. The question now is where does The Shield go now and what will they be doing at Wrestlemania? 

Rating: **** (TVMOTY thus far)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was a fan of The Shield's match again. 3 for 3.

Edit


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

THE SHIELD. The 6 man on Raw was really good. Watching EC now.

edit: thought Del Rio/Show was a strong opener. Good match, shame about the botch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WRESTLEMANIA XXVI INCOMING :mark: :mark: :mark:

STARZ ?!?!?!?!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK/Taker *********+


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH I KNOWSSS DAT .

How about the rest of the card ? Seriously looks like it has top three potential in terms of GOAT Manias between Batista-Cena, Edge-Jericho, HHH-Sheamus, MITB, Rey-Punk, and finally what I had ranked as the greatest Wrestlemania match ever before this countdown started.

I'm not sure if it can hold up because it's going to have to do ALOT to beat out my current top two, but anything's possible.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH/Sheamus was solid, nothing special. I really enjoyed Jericho/Edge. Probably around ***3/4. Batista/Cena didn't come close to their prior encounter from Summerslam (imo). Rey/Punk was great. Don't recall much about that MITB.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Havent watched Wrestlemania 26 yet for my countdown however I think only one match will get in, with Bats/Cena having an outside chance. From recent memory I think my stars looked something like this, last time I watched it.

MizShow vs John Morrison & R-Truth : ** 1/2*
Randy Orton vs Ted Dibiase vs Cody Rhodes : *** 1/2*
Money in the bank : **** 1/4*
Sheamus vs Triple H : *****
Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk : **** 1/4*
Bret Hart vs Vince McMahon : *DUD *
Edge vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/2*
Batista vs John Cena : **** 3/4*
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker : *******

Postmatch: *Me crying like a little girl* 

Such a consistent Wrestlemania, with perhaps the greatest Wrestlemania main event of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Top 50 Superstars DVD IIRC .
> 
> Let's not forget the HHH-Cena match from 2009 either!


One from England was the solid match. Bout from October was a move for move carbon copy and shouldn't be plugged. Trips had a better match with Big Show in latter 2009 on RAW.

*Monday Night RAW 1/18/13*

Chris Jericho, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield ~ ***1/2​
A really good abbrevated version of their match last night. The Shield's dynamic is so grand. Lends itself to make all their matches and moments special. Every single one of them.

Rest of RAW was total crap for the most part. Swagger & Zeb brought the goods, as did Henry mocking fools. But, jesus there was almost ZERO progression towards the "biggest" show of the year. To cap it off we get another 15 minute Rock promo that sucks and a WWE Championship that was even worse than the previous. I can't wait till FINALLY...The Rock has gone away.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Any change would have been an improvement for Swagger, his gimmick before he left was just jobber.

Still a cliche racism gimmick, WWE's favorite.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I could think of gimmicks WWE likes more. Evil Foreigner being the top pick.

Who was the last racist, JBL? Ted Dibiase Jr. wanting to make R-Truth his "Virgil" didn't last long enough to count. 8*D


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Punk vs. Rey is probably the best six minute match you'll ever see.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I'm starting to think that Taker will face Lesnar at Wrestlemania.Punk is not a threat because he lost to Rock twice and if he lose his match against Cena then please how in the hell he will beat Taker at Wrestlemania with 3 losses in a row.

Lesnar is a monster,he crushed Cena and made HHH tap out and broke McMahon's hip and there is one man to stop him..The Undertaker.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't want him to work with Lesnar this year or next either, he'll wind up getting hurt.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I just got the feeling that 'cos Taker didnt teurn up last night, he is missing this year, hope im wrong though of course,

If he doesn't wrestle this year, ill be counting down the fucking minutes 'till WM30. (although not for the inevitable Rock/Cena III).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't know for sure what the deal is with Taker at WM. Punk could always lose next week, and then in two weeks, with no shot of getting back his WWE Title at Mania, he can make the challenge to Taker.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think WWE's giving 'Taker one week to make his decision and will book next weeks Raw based around that decision. Undertaker could still always appear, but more and more it's looking like he won't and CM Punk will be in the WWE Championship picture come Wrestlemania 29.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

WWE Elimination Chamber 2013

Alberto Del Rio vs. The Big Show - **3/4
Antonio Cesaro vs. The Miz - **
Elimination Chamber - ***
The Shield vs. John Cena/Sheamus/Ryback - *** 1/4
Kofi Kingston vs. Dolph Ziggler - *3/4
Kaitlyn vs. Tamina Snuka - DUD
The Rock vs. CM Punk - **3/4

Solid show but not really worth going out of your way to see. Chamber match was standard fare outside of Team Hell No antics and sweet Jericho/Orton confrontation. I enjoyed the trios match, not as much as I enjoyed the TLC, but it was different enough and watching them showcase their own individual ability during the heat spot was cool. Main event was basically what I expected, but with what seemed to be more rest-holds. It seemed slow and required a lot of smoke and mirrors with that finish. 

Pretty average really.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

robertdeniro said:


> I'm stating to think that Taker will face Lesnar at Wrestlemania.Punk is not a threat because he lost to Rock twice and if he lose his match against Cena then please how in the hell he will beat Taker at Wrestlemania with 3 losses in a row.
> 
> Lesnar is a monster,he crushed Cena and made HHH tap out and broke McMahon's hip and there is one man to stop him..The Undertaker.


His losses against Rock were all shady, though. I also think Punk might just edge out the victory against Cena, too. What with Cena/Rock being involved with WM XXX I don't see them doing Cena/Rock three times in a row. Besides, it gives Punk his main event win that he's never had before.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Shield vs Jericho/Sheamus/Ryback was freaking awesome. So much better than the EC match. Great tag team action. WWE picked the right guys to put in the group. All 3 men have such amazing chemistry. My only problem is that Roman Reigns looked like a bitch. Most of the time he was getting his ass kicked or just tagged in to miss a big turnbuckle splash. 

But shit, the match was freaking awesome. Like Evolution '04 tag matches awesome (but not as awesome )

That match is MOTY for me. Finally a match that I can call MOTY not by default but because it was freaking epic.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shield match last night was much better than the EC one. I'm with sharkboy on it being my MOTY so far. Brilliant stuff. ****1/4.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Punk vs. Rey is probably the best six minute match you'll ever see.


Not even close.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena said he has never beaten CM Punk (lol, fuck your revisionist history) and ROCK last night. Hopefully that means Superman is resurrected next week when he finishes off one of them and then he finally gets his return victory and ends this shit with THE ROCK once and for all. Punk can just challenge Undertaker similar to how Orton did at WM21 because he had fallen to the side with no direction.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

It's funny because Cena beat Punk about 3 months ago one-on-one.

Vince: "Nobody remembers anything from last year!"


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cena probably meant he has never beaten Punk in a big match which is true. According to the site below, Cena has a better head2head record against Punk.

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-prototype-350.html


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched The Shield Vs Jericho, Sheamus & Ryback. Really good match, but not quite as good as the PPV one from the day before. Ryback as FIP didn't really seem to fit considering you had Sheamus and Jericho who could do that far better, but he did fine, just could have been better with someone else in that position. Reigns went from looking like a star at EC to looking like just another guy as he took FAR too much offence for my liking. He was perfect as the "muscle" of the group just coming in and tearing shit up whenever they got in any kind of trouble. Still, even with those things bringing it down, it was still really good. ***1/2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> It's funny because Cena beat Punk about 3 months ago one-on-one.
> 
> Vince: "Nobody remembers anything from last year!"


Probably what he also says when someone says to him " Rock/Cena was Once In A Lifetime Vince"


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Isn't the gimmick that he's never beat him in a title match, not full stop. 

They won't throw a monumental buyrate away just to add Punk to the title match. Even if Taker doesn't make it (he will) they'll find something else for Punk, probably with Ryback and The Shield. The match next week sounds like a great idea to plant the seed of doubt and it seems to be working perfectly. As long as Taker can walk he's working Mania. Isn't Raw in Texas next week too?......

Rock/Brock will be next year, nothing to do with Cena again after they get him his win back. Also Cena lost at the PPV, beating Punk clean gives him his big win he didn't get on the PPV before the title match. Cena's winning everything this year.*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Random stuff:

- Swagger's new theme is absolutely epic. Fits him perfectly and it just sounds great. His character has also vastly improved and Coulter is great. People will shit on him for not having STAR POWRZ but this is how you fucking become a star. It doesn't just happen overnight. You have to get there at some point. And so far Swagger's been wonderful and I'm still 10x more interested in Swagger/Del Rio than lolcena/lolrock.

- Shield have yet to have a bad match in WWE. Last night's six man tag is slightly under the EC match for me but my god it owned. Throwing ***3/4 on it and **** for the EC one. Throw in ****1/2 for the TLC and they're on a goddamn roll.

- Triple H/John Cena - Raw Oct '09 - ****1/4. Match absolutely owns.

- Swagger/Bryan last night was solid. Would throw about **3/4 to *** on it although Swagger has Angle Syndrome booking where he works over something the whole match and then ankle lock. But last night's kinda worked considering his ankle had been damaged the previous few moves.

- Can't say I'm interested in Kane/Bryan at WM because it'll be considered filler and they'll barely build it. However, whenever the rematch is, I can see it being very good.

- I don't even have an opinion on last night's last segment. I like that the spinner belt is gone but I was hoping for something a little less flashy. The actual segment itself was just blah. I'm sick of all three of these guys together now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Seabs said:


> *Isn't the gimmick that he's never beat him in a title match, not full stop.
> 
> They won't throw a monumental buyrate away just to add Punk to the title match. Even if Taker doesn't make it (he will) they'll find something else for Punk, probably with Ryback and The Shield. The match next week sounds like a great idea to plant the seed of doubt and it seems to be working perfectly. As long as Taker can walk he's working Mania. Isn't Raw in Texas next week too?......
> 
> Rock/Brock will be next year, nothing to do with Cena again after they get him his win back. Also Cena lost at the PPV, beating Punk clean gives him his big win he didn't get on the PPV before the title match. Cena's winning everything this year.*


You just made me look forward to this RTWM with a lot more optimism. It definitely makes sense that Cena gets his return victory against Punk so he has as much momentum possible heading into The ROCK match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So after last night my thoughts on Brock/Taker happening have grown. There's no way to conceivably build Punk up enough for the streak in 5 weeks. Not on your life and especially not after 2 big losses to Rock and then 1 to Cena. It would be even more retarded than having the match in the first place. I think we're getting the triple threat after all which is good because I'd rather have Rock/Cena/Punk than just Rock/Cena on their own. At least it's something new and Punk gets a Mania main event to cap off this run of his.

So it all comes down to whether we get Brock/Trips or Brock/Taker as the other big match. It could go either way but like I've been saying for what feels like the past month now, we'll find out next week.

THE SHIELD were once again fucking awesome btw. Everything these guys do is captivating. 3 matches and not one under 4*. I'd give this one ****. I loved it. 3 for 3 they are now and I have every faith that they'll keep impressing me. They're too good not to. 

*TLC - ****1/2
EC - ****1/4
Raw - *****

DAT SHIELD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My excitement for WM is DEAD atm. Cena/Rock II makes me wanna stab someone. Even the possibility of Punk in the match does nothing for me. Undertaker/Punk I'd like, but fuck knows if that's even going to happen. Del Rio/Swagger on paper looks like the most boring match ever. Feud will probably suck outside of DUTCH. Henry atm looks to be moving towards a fucking WM match with Khali. Urgh. Hope they settle their shit on TV and someone else (Mysterio? Henry "took him out" of the EC match, right? And they have great chemistry). Anyone else of interest to me doesn't seem to have any real direction moving to WM atm. Hope within the next 2 weeks things are clearer.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I'd be stoked if Rey and Henry got 10-15 minute midcard at Mania. If Rey even makes the card then he'll probably face Sin Cara though.

Trips is facing Brock and nobody else. He needs the win back and the Vince angle just confirms it's happening. Hunter's working the show so if not Brock then who?

There's no way Punk's ending the streak but there's no way Brock is either so Punk losing a few times before that match isn't an issue. Nobody would but it if Punk went undefeated for a year. The only guy ending the streak is Cena unless some hot shot takes the company by storm and can be a guaranteed replacement for Cena. *


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Big Z said:


> My excitement for WM is DEAD atm. Cena/Rock II makes me wanna stab someone. Even the possibility of Punk in the match does nothing for me. Undertaker/Punk I'd like, but fuck knows if that's even going to happen. Del Rio/Swagger on paper looks like the most boring match ever. Feud will probably suck outside of DUTCH. Henry atm looks to be moving towards a fucking WM match with Khali. Urgh. Hope they settle their shit on TV and someone else (Mysterio? Henry "took him out" of the EC match, right? And they have great chemistry). Anyone else of interest to me doesn't seem to have any real direction moving to WM atm. Hope within the next 2 weeks things are clearer.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts. It seems like WM is shaping up to be an event of good quality that I just can't give two fucks about.

Adding Punk to Cena/Rock _might_ makes things a little more bearable. I just have no interest in that match at all. Any combination of Cena/Rock. Bleh.

The way the card is shaping up, Punk/Taker might be the only MAIN-EVENT that I could muster any enthusiasm for. So I really hope that they don't stick Punk in the WWE title match. That match could legit steal the show and feel like a proper WM match.

Swagger/Del Rio is nothing, even with all the frills. ADR's turn, his ascension. Swagger's return, his new gimmick. It's all so forced. DUTCH is great though and it should be a good match.

I'm gutted that Henry might be moving into a feud with Khali. GUTTED (although hopefully it's short lived).

Bryan/Kane will be 5 minutes of filler.

Brock/Trips is another match that should be good that I don't care about.

Pretty excited to see what The Shield will do though. The way they've been booked is miraculous and each member is killing it. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, probably the least excited I've been for a Mania in years. I'm hoping once we know what Taker/BROCK/GAME's involvement will be it will change. Fingers crossed.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

I think were definitely getting Rock/Punk/Cena for WrestleMania with Undertaker or Triple H facing Brock, if its HHH I don't see Undertaker working WrestleMania this year, makes sense as to why Triple H had to tell us on the Slammies we'd see him again. 

The Rock hate in this thread is pretty funny, I guess its normal for 'workrate' marks but still :lol:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's pretty sad that we're forced to clutch onto the hopes of people like HHH/Taker/Brock performing to even want to watch Mania. They have talented people who are constantly stuck in shit feuds (Henry, Bryan, etc) and when they are given a high profile match, they lose in 18 seconds.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Agreed TLK. WWE are too scared to give people anything genuinely fresh when Mania season rolls around. It's a miracle that Punk has managed to claw his way into the upper-card at all.

The way things have been for several years, the only reason Mania has felt like Mania is becuase of guys like Taker. And it's not because the talent isn't there. Guys like Bryan and Henry deserve way better than filler. 

The WM card has SO MUCH TALENT. Yet WWE have chosen quite possibly the least appealing way imaginable to organize that talent.

Although I'll try to refrain from bitching any more until the card is finalized. Then LOTS more bitching.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I bet the Mania card would rule from a match quality context if guys like Rock/Brock/Hunter/Taker weren't involved. Guys like Bryan and Cesaro would get longer more high profile matches. Not feasible at Mania though sadly. 

I'm honestly not sure Punk being added to Rock/Cena makes the match better. Rock/Cena is at least a spectacle. Add another guy in there and it's much less so. Is Mania indoors this year? Hopefully it is so the atmosphere comes over on TV rather than getting lost in the air like it seemed to last year. WWE 3 way's tend to be poor and they aint having a WM20 type main event. *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah I agree with that Seabs. I guess I just want Punk in that match to make it in any way interesting to me because Rock Vs Cena on their own does nothing for me... but the odds of the match being anything great as a triple threat are just as low as the singles match.

Punk/Taker is my only hope atm. Not bothered if Punk isn't in the last match, against Undertaker at WrestleMania is equal if not BETTER most of the time than being in the "main event". Undertaker IS WrestleMania these days.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

I doubt I'll even watch 'Mania this year. This was the first year I didn't even watch the Rumble. I'd always watched the Rumble no matter how low my interest in WWE at the time was. Always. First one I watched live/next night (whatever I was young and don't remember fuck you) was 1992, and I didn't miss one between then and this year. 20 years without missing a beat, and this year finally broke me. Well, last year broke me and I'm still broken this year, but the point is, I didn't watch the Rumble and I care even less about 'Mania (which I've also watched every year without fail since fucking Wrestlemania VI! I feel old and grumpy as dirt). 

I basically stopped caring about current WWE outside a few shows (Rumble and 'Mania + maybe one or two other shows throughout the year. 2011 had Money in the Bank and Summerslam, and I watched a handful of other PPVs at a friend's house, which was by far the most enjoyable way to watch them since I wasn't really paying a great deal of attention (although Cena/Punk from MitB was one of the better live wrestling experiences I've had)) in 2008, and since then my interest has gone further and further in the shitter. I don't know if there's anything that'll draw me back in at this point.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'd just assume endure Cena/Rock again and have Punk move onto something else. As someone said, I don't see Punk/Taker happening because as of next week's Raw, Punk will have lost 3 straight one-on-one high profile matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I feel a bit meh about Mania this year too tbh. A lot of people seem to be the same. It's interesting that so many people are getting hit with apathy at the same time. Then again, looking at the prospective card it isn't all that surprising. 

I'd truly hate for Taker to come back only to fight Punk though. I'd rather he not come back at all if that's the case. It's Brock or bust as far as I'm concerned for the streak this year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd like Brock/Taker too but I'd like Brock to win @ Mania this year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really don't plan on watching Mania at the moment. It looks disappointing as fuck unless Shield gets an awesome match. I was thinking the other day how cool a Shield vs Taker/Kane match would be but that's so far off from happening it's not even funny. Trips/Lesnar and Rock/Cena or even Punk/Rock/Cena don't interest me in the least bit. If they can throw together Taker/Lesnar then I might be interested but then I dunno what they'd do with Punk. It certainly isn't getting my money this year. First time since '98.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *I feel a bit meh about Mania this year too tbh. A lot of people seem to be the same. It's interesting that so many people are getting hit with apathy at the same time. Then again, looking at the prospective card it isn't all that surprising. *
> 
> I'd truly hate for Taker to come back only to fight Punk though. I'd rather he not come back at all if that's the case. It's Brock or bust as far as I'm concerned for the streak this year.


It doesn't even feel like Wrestlemania season.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll order Mania because I always do and it's fucking Mania. Wish HBK was still around. 

If things somehow broke like this I'd be happy:

Actually fuck it, I legit just tried to come up with a list and couldn't. FUCK THIS MANIA.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'd like Brock/Taker too but I'd like Brock to win @ Mania this year.


Brock was ruined when he lost to Cena. It would be better for him to pick up wins but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. He's already beatable. Besides, losing to Taker won't hurt him at all and if HHH is the other option then he's probably losing there too lol so again, it doesn't really matter. I'm at the stage now where I just want to see him perform. I don't care if he wins or loses so long as it's to somebody believable and he doesn't look like a clown in the process.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I'd rather get Rock/Cena and Punk/Taker than just Rock/Cena/Punk. Punk/Taker probably won't be great but it'll be good and Rock/Cena could be fun if it's short enough. I'll end up stciking money on each match just to make me care for the show. Only way I can see myself caring for the big matches. Undercard still has potential though. Shield 6 man with 3 top babyfaces will be good if it happens. Plus the possibility of a Henry match with someone. Probably be Orton though which I'm not hyped for. *


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Brock was ruined when he lost to Cena. It would be better for him to pick up wins but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. He's already beatable. Besides, losing to Taker won't hurt him at all and if HHH is the other option then he's probably losing there too lol so again, it doesn't really matter. I'm at the stage now where I just want to see him perform. I don't care if he wins or loses so long as it's to somebody believable and he doesn't look like a clown in the process.


Yeah, you know my thoughts on him losing to Cena last year. I think we're in agreement there. It's true that no matter who he faces @ Mania, he'll likely be on the losing end. I guess, in that case, I'd take Brock/Taker. The more I think about it, the more awesome I believe that match would be.

Shield in some sort of chaotic gimmick match plz.


----------



## TheWFEffect (Jan 4, 2010)

Must watch best qoute "Well yeaaaah my Mum was drunk and druggie but now she's all god fearing and a lesbian so we get along better now because I love beer and women too" :lmao


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Really not hyped about Mania at all.

Rock/Cena/Punk does little for me because its still obvious Cena wins and beats all the odds.

Taker probably isnt competing which sucks. Taker/Brock or Taker/Punk would have been great.

Swagger/Del rio intrigues me slightly mostly because Ive always thought Swagger had a lot of upside. The Ziggler factor is also interesting.

Hopefully Shield do something awesome or something big happens to catch my attention


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield are the best thing going right now and are the only thing that truly captivate me on WWE TV atm. Everything else seems to be plodding along while these guys are steam rolling ahead. I look forward to their match and hope that they go out there and kill it just like they have the last 3 times. I don't even mind if they don't go over. Somebody has to eventually beat them and Mania is the perfect place for them to finally get their comeuppance even if I'd rather they last a little longer as an undefeated monster group. Shield vs. some combination of Ryback/Seamus/somebody else works for me just fine. 

Agreed in saying that it doesn't feel like Wrestlemania season. It really just doesn't and I have no idea why. Maybe it's because we're all waiting for the second bit match to get announced so that we'll finally know what's going to happen. I don't know. Something definitely just feels off about the whole thing though. It's a serious lack of general hype if you ask me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I admit I also feel completely indifferent. Last night was an awful start for the Road to WM to say the least. The entire show was shit except most of the final hour. (and Mizark dancing 2 da beat!)

Even though ROCK is such a rarity, I think Cena is the best option for him. BROCK should face Taker. But unfortunately, they have to find a place to fit Punk in the main event matches and that fucks it up. They also need to kill this 3 hours crap. I've watched 3 Raw shows live since the move (1000 included) and two of them have been absolutely exhausting and painful to sit through.

All this potential sadly seems to be wasted away. Mark Henry vs Khali better not happen, a triple threat main event blows (I do love seeing it get ripped to shreds by getting compared to the GOAT triple threat should it happen, though) and Taker vs Brock looks less and less likely to happen. And who can forget Jack Thwagger being in a title match after spending over a year jobbing and then taking a 6 month absence.

The product is falling apart and I shudder to think how bad it'll be when Taker/ROCK/BORK are not here to bring some interest. Maybe I should stick to watching the old stuff and completely no-sell the present. Worked like a charm last 6 months of 2012 when the product reached an all time low.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

When you look at it there is a lot of stuff outside the main storylines that are sweet. Henry, Jericho, Shield, Zeb and Jack etc. If they had some appealing main events to go alongside it all then I could get pretty pumped.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's because both title matches are a bit underwhelming. One, albeit involving two of the biggest stars in the history of the company, is a rematch from last year. The other involves a lukewarm babyface and a dude who was jobbing to Santino a few months ago.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

When Swagger is one of the very few "good" aspects of the product, you know there is a problem.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Elimination Chamber 2013*

Del Rio v Show: good opener. I'm a fan of their series. Don't think any of the matches were truly great but they were all good. This was fun from start to finish, shame about Del Rio blowing the enziguiri bucket spot. Gotta agree with WOOLCOCK about Del Rio's dive looking great and more impactful than anybody's version of the move.

Cesaro v Miz: saw some people say they skipped the match because Miz was in it. Also seen low ratings for it. I would recommend watching or re-watching it because this was good. Best Miz performance and match in ages. Thought there was a lot to like about this. Cesaro's arm work was good, Miz sold well, and some of the counters and sequences were really smooth. If this was a complete match without a screwy finish (which was creative btw) I would pimp it. Wouldn't have a problem with them having their blow off match at Mania.

Chamber: I honestly can't say I liked this. I wouldn't call it bad but apart from Mark Henry ruling planet earth it struggled to hold my attention. Agreed w/what Yeah1993, WOOLCOCK and HayleySabin have said basically. Nothing special at all and I don't want to watch it again.

Super Friends v Shield: easily the MOTN. Gotta give WWE credit where it's due and they deserve a ton of credit for the way they've handled The Shield so far. They've protected them and booked them so well and due to that and their talent it's a novelty to watch them work right now. The heat segment on Cena leading to Ryback's hot tag was just about perfect. Lots of neat cut offs and teamwork from The Shield. They're starting to overuse the barricade spot but it was great here. Great match.

Ziggler v Kingston: holy shit at Dolph's flip bump. They did some cool stuff and Ziggler got a win. (Y)

Kaitlyn v Tamina: skipped it.

Rock v Punk: bleh. Punk tried his best, Rock sucks, the finishing stretch was bullshit. Don't even want to talk about this match. Decent at best.

Solid show. Nothing was really bad but I expected more from the chamber match. The 6 man tag is the best match I've seen this year. Gotta re-watch the 6 man from Raw last night, that's probably number 2. BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ Agree on the Del Rio/Show, Cesaro/Miz. & Dolph/Kofi portions. Cesaro/Miz can really have something great with 15 minutes or so with the limbwork we got from that match.

A few random thoughts on current discussions:

- Anyone discussing the best 6 minute match you'll ever see, I highly disagree on Rey/Punk from Mania & certainly on the Jericho/Bryan discussion from a few days ago. You're gonna have to branch away from WWE to find the best 6 minute match I've ever seen. It's *Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Go Shiozaki* for the FIP World Title from *ROH's A New Level*. The amount of shit they packed into 6 minutes is just unreal. *** 1/2 star match.

- Agree on so many thing you guys have said on Mania. It doesn't feel like it's Mania season AT ALL and if we get Rock/Cena & Brock/HHH rematches, I may honestly not even bother watching the show. Not to mention if Bryan/Kane actually happens and as fresh and random as Del Rio/Swagger is, it's nowhere near Wrestlemania level, but I know that's still up in the air. I really think it's time for Rock & Hunter to step aside so the new blood can shine. Bryan so deserves to be in a big time match, it's not even funny. Cesaro can deliver the goods big time and even guys like Big Show & Mark Henry have shown with their work ethic they can still go & give us something really enjoyable in 10-15 minutes. I just hope they turn my opinion around in a few weeks, cause Elimination Chamber had me really excited and the matches I thought would deliver, did.

- I'm one of the few that didn't think HHH/Cena from RAW '09 was all that great. I got really annoyed with the slowness and amount of finishers they had to use. Not a bad match (** 3/4) but their other two PPV encounters trump it big time.

- Question that I don't think has been asked/discussed: What's everyone's thoughts on the *new WWE Title* Rock unveiled? I actually like the simplicity and design & definitely think it was time to get rid of the old spinner belt. I think it'll be around a while.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> When Swagger is one of the very few "good" aspects of the product, you know there is a problem.


Well to be fair Zeb Coulter is the one making me somewhat interested. Swagger shouldn't speak and stick to wrestling only.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

SmokeAndMirrors said:


> Well to be fair Zeb Coulter is the one making me somewhat interested. Swagger shouldn't speak and stick to wrestling only.


I agree. It wasn't even a dig at Swagger as much as it was on the overall product, you know?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys, which match is better in your opinion, Taker/Edge from Summerslam 2008 or Taker/Edge form WM 24?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^^^ WM24.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> - Question that I don't think has been asked/discussed: What's everyone's thoughts on the *new WWE Title* Rock unveiled? I actually like the simplicity and design & definitely think it was time to get rid of the old spinner belt. I think it'll be around a while.


Don't like it. Prefer the spinner belt to it. It was time for the spinner to go but I expected something better. Thankfully, it is better than those terrible leaked pictures of it where the logo and background was all gold.

Undisputed is still the best.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I hope the title gets some adjustments over the next few weeks. Needs more gold and once The Rock drops it, the brahama bull plates on the side need to go.

But I like it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I like Rock's new belt considerably more than the spinner belt.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I was all excited for the belt, then he revealed and I felt so disappointed.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> *Elimination Chamber 2013*
> 
> Del Rio v Show: good opener. I'm a fan of their series. Don't think any of the matches were truly great but they were all good. This was fun from start to finish, shame about Del Rio blowing the enziguiri bucket spot. Gotta agree with WOOLCOCK about Del Rio's dive looking great and more impactful than anybody's version of the move.
> 
> Cesaro v Miz: saw some people say they skipped the match because Miz was in it. Also seen low ratings for it. I would recommend watching or re-watching it because this was good. Best Miz performance and match in ages. Thought there was a lot to like about this. Cesaro's arm work was good, Miz sold well, and some of the counters and sequences were really smooth. If this was a complete match without a screwy finish (which was creative btw) I would pimp it. Wouldn't have a problem with them having their blow off match at Mania.


Only quoting this part since we're both in agreement on the rest. Del Rio's dive was super. Pure classic Lucha execution in the move, though seeing him do it into a barricade and into the crowd would have been even better. Hyperbole of course there since WWE and Lucha differ in terms of the execution of a dive to the floor.

I too dug the idea in theory of Cesaro sneakily forcing a DQ by dropping Miz into committing the act and alerting the referee. Needed better timing and exeuction though because if Miz had had a good comeback and stretch of nearfalls beforehand it could have been a really good deflating finish. As it was though it just had that unfortunate stigma of coming out of nowhere and abruptly ending the match. Still I suppose its better than the cliche DQ in WWE where a guy just relentlessly attacks someone in the corner. Miz sold well, Cesaro's midair transition into a shoulderbreaker was swank & the nearfalls and smooth counters and pin attempts from Miz were executed very well. They really could have a very good match with the right amount of time and a real transition from control segment to the finish.


----------



## step73121 (Apr 25, 2011)

This weekend, I had time to sit down and go on netflix and watch the Rock/Cena Wrestlemania movie. Even though the movie was only 45 minutes, it actually got me excited for Rock/Cena II. I am going to Wrestlemania and on the night of the Royal Rumble, I seriously considered selling my lower level Wrestlemania ticket but after watching the movie, it got me pumped to see the match again. I will be rooting for the Rock even though Cena is going to win but I'm just wondering: did anyone else enjoy the video also?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Updated MOTY list:

1. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
2. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
3. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
4. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
5. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)

May need some re-watches to confirm the order of spots 2-4 but that's what I got right now.

edit: just realized Ryback is in 3 of the 5 matches including the top 2 :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wait, those are brahma bulls on the side of the WWE Title? Oh fuck that, never noticed after seeing the pictures. That needs to go immediately after he drops the belt.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

*ELIMINATION CHAMBER 2013​*
Watched this one at the parent's house again. It's hilariously awesome watching PPVs with them. They are the definition of hardcore fan turned casual. It's great to get their perspective on the current product. Plus, they pay for the event and provide dinner. :hb

*Alberto Del Rio vs Big Show* - You know it's bad when my dad comes home with dinner while this match is going on and says "they're fighting again?" :lmao

My parents both enjoy Del Rio, and truth be told the match wasn't all that bad. Not as good as the SD LMS, but about on par with the Rumble match. **1/2

*Antonio Cesaro vs The Miz* - Dad really likes Cesaro. Both parents can't believe they paid money to see The Miz. My parents are awesome. Decent match with a shockingly good performance from Miz and a typical LEGIT performance from Cesaro. Guy is a machine. Shit ending. **

*Elimination Chamber* - This is where things started to become a bit polarizing. I rooted for Danielson. Mom thinks he's funny. Dad has no idea how he'll be able to hang with the others given his size until I explain that Bryan is the GOAT wrestler. My dad insists that isn't the same Kane. He must've said "I still don't think that's the same Kane but you'd know best" a good 20 times. Mom loves Jericho. Dad was rooting for Swagger after Zeb's immigration promo :lmao. It was a really fun match and their interest in who they thought would win made it even better. My dad replayed the ending sequence between Jericho and Orton twice. That was a damn good finishing stretch. Entertaining match. ****

*Shield vs WWE ALLSTARS* - Mom left the room once Cena's music hit :lmao. Dad loves The Shield. Awesome match. Isolation of Cena was brilliant. The Shield have those oldschool Freebird tactics mixed with the attitude of Evolution. Throw in a bit of poetic chaos and you have the most intriguing entity in ages. I had a sick feeling the entire match that the ALLSTARS would win, especially when Cena hit the AA on Ambrose during the finishing sequnce. Luckily, Reings speared the SHIT out of Ryback (Dad was still marking over the spear on Sheamus through the barricade until I reminded him that we've seen it like 4 times in the last 2 months) and Rollins got the pin on Ryback. LEGIT. ****

*Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston* - Dad was the most entertaining part of this match with gems like "I really hope they don't try to push this guy (Kofi) into someone big," "I'd kill to have hair like that (Dolph)," and "I wish Triple H would come back." :lmao Mom loves Dolph too. Solid match given the time. Tons of bumping. Monkey flip was GOAT. **

*Divas* - Everyone took a shower/piss/snack break.

*Rock vs CM Punk* - Again, this is where the casual point of view was interesting. Both parents weren't sure how Punk could be seen to be in the same league as Rock. Solid match, much better than their first encounter imo. False finish with Punk kicking out of The People's Elbow actually had me fooled. Definitely thought that was the end. Glad it wasn't. Predictable finish regardless. Both parents were legit clapping when Rock pinned Punk. ***1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I like the new title. It isn't traditional, more of a modern title but I can live with it. Rock plates at the side MUST go though. It also looks very big, even on Rock. On smaller guys it's going to look huge. I would have preferred something a little more on the traditional side but this smokes the spinner by a considerable margin. Over time I think I'll grow to like it even more.

EDIT - MOTY list so far:

*Shield vs. Cena/Ryback/Seamus - ****1/4
Smackdown Chamber - ****1/4
Shield vs. Jericho/Ryback/Seamus - *****

That's all I can remember for now.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

It's better than the spinner, not that that's saying much. Not quite the Winged Eagle, not that any belt is.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Greg, I'm watching Mania with your parents now.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Imagine when they release the "Rock vs Cena : Twice in a Lifetime" DVD :lol .

Wrestlemania season doesn't feel like Wrestlemania season for a few reasons ; for one, they have this big long build and they are opting to do NOTHING with it, it honestly seems like the WWE Universe revolves around whenever Rock is going to show up. They're doing RAW from Texas next week so the conclusion to the show should be clear as day ; Punk does some cheating shenanigans that's about to get him the win when the referee is down and the lights go out... The lights go back on and it's Undertaker who costs Punk the match. Why would he do this ? It's WWE, they'll give us some half assed explanation that makes no sense .

Trips is coming to save his father in law next week and that's pretty much a lock at this point. NOBODY wants to see it and I strongly encourage the fans to let their voices be heard during this segment, screaming "WE WANT TAKER" or some shit like that. They obviously won't because these are the same people who want to see Rock-Cena II but whatever. It makes me depressed that a feud between two of my all time favorites is so fucking unnecessary because if I knew we weren't getting BROCK-HHH II I'd actually be excited for Game's return .

Punk's going to face The Undertaker in the Co-Main Event that will probably be MOTN if not Brock-HHH. I just don't give a fuck about the build whatsoever because it's going to be ridiculously predictable and a bunch of bullshit. When the MATCH comes I'll care, same with BROCK-GAME, but I could care less about this shitty build.

Rock isn't going to be there for 3 of the last 6 RAWS before Wrestlemania. Granted, this is a very good thing for me because I don't have to see or hear him, but what the fuck is Cena going to do for those three RAWS that Rock's going to miss ? Talk to himself in the middle of the ring ? Talk to The Rock Via Satellite ? This build is going to be SO FUCKING BAD, you know it's sad when JACK SWAGGER is one of the things I love about this company the most ATM. His new gimmick is awesome, ZEB is awesome, and people shouldn't trash Swagger for being in the WM ME scene because honestly it's like the 5th biggest match on the card at best.

*STARZ 4 WRASSLIN' - MAN EE YA XXVI ?* (I have to ask AGAIN ?)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *Greg, I'm watching Mania with your parents now.*


:lmao It seriously makes watching a PPV ten times better than it has any right to be. No joke. So great.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MOTY List so far:

1) The Shield vs. Jericho, Sheamus, and Ryback Raw 2/18/13 (****1/4)
2) Henry vs. Orton vs. Swagger vs. Jericho vs. Bryan vs. Kane EC (****)
3) Punk vs. Jericho Raw 2/4/13 (***3/4)
4) Bryan vs. Jericho Raw 2/11/13 (***3/4)
5) Punk vs. Rock EC (***3/4)

The past three weeks Jericho's been a gawd!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rawk, where do you have Shield vs Ryback/Cena/Sheamus from EC?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The new belt is better than the spinner, but not by much. It really doesn't look like much effort has gone into the design. Someone posted a custom design in another thread that looked much snazzier.

Great post Lady Killer, your parents seem damn cool! And interesting observation about how 'casuals' view Punk against a guy like The Rock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TLK, it sounds like you had a blast. Wish there was somebody interested in wrestling alongside me. I'm all alone and everyone I know used to like it but doesn't care anymore.

And 2013 MOTYs so far:
Elimination Chamber
Rock vs Punk at RR
Punk vs Ryback
SHIELD vs Cena/Ryback/Sheamus



KingOfKings said:


> *STARZ 4 WRASSLIN' - MAN EE YA XXVI ?* (I have to ask AGAIN ?)


Been a long time since I saw the show but I'll try.

ShowMiz vs Truth & Morrison - ★★
Legacy Triple Threat - ★★¾
MITB - ★★¾
Triple H vs Sheamus - ★★★
Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk - ★★★¼
Bret Hart vs Vince - 0
Chris Jericho vs Edge - ★★★½
Divas - Skipped
John Cena vs Batista - ★★★½
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★½


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Coolest thing my dad ever said to me that was wrestling related was when he described Torrie Wilson as 'having a nice pair of knockers' when she had an apparent wardrobe malfunction at a House Show back in 2003. 

Nice review anyways TLK. Not as high on the Chamber match or Rock/Punk but can't complain with the rest. Shield booking and presentation continues to astound me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Rawk, where do you have Shield vs Ryback/Cena/Sheamus from EC?


***1/2, and #7 on my list. Match was great, enjoyed the tags between The Shield, but Cena as FIP just went on and on and on and on and on, and nothing stood out to me besides Reins being a beast. Match got very slow with Cena in there and outside of standard tag-team psychology, didn't have anything to make up for it. Also ticked off at the ending and how weak Ryback looked.

So yeah, I'm not high on it and it would've looked much better serving as a Raw main event. The Shield match last night though was off the charts. They had all the great stuff from the night before, but the pace was picked up, the match wasn't as long (or didn't feel anywhere near as long anyway), and Ryback was fucking awesome at the beginning with Rollins, and loved how Jericho had to tag in and calm Ryback down. Reins still looked very intense and great, even if not as much as in the EC match. I didn't dig the ending again, but I'm more accepting of it being Jericho looking a bit weak instead of Ryback for obvious reasons. Makes more sense.

Edit:

WM26 (from what I remember):

ShowMiz vs Truth & Morrison - **
Legacy Triple Threat - **1/2
MITB - ***
Triple H vs Sheamus - ***1/4
Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk - ***1/2
Bret Hart vs Vince - DUD
Chris Jericho vs Edge - ****
John Cena vs Batista - ***3/4
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - ****3/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao It seriously makes watching a PPV ten times better than it has any right to be. No joke. So great.


Watching with other people is so much more fun. Anytime I'm watching I invite over a good 5 or 6 friends to watch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Punk-Rey match was really something else for a 6 minute match.

RAW IS JERICHO. Seriously, the guy is the anti-ROCK as far as I'm concerned in the sense that Jericho comes back, puts a ton of guys over, and wrestles some of the best damn television matches we've seen in quite some time. I REALLY hope he gets a fair shake at Mania and rewarded for his work with perhaps a nice 10-12 minute match at Mania with Randy Orton or somebody, that could probably revive Orton's career in terms of work. He'll probably just get squashed by Ryback because that's just how Jericho rolls and by reading his books I almost get the feeling that get gets OFF by jobbing or something :lol .

It's crazy to think how two of the most well read guys with some of the best wrestling related books ever in Foley and Jericho are the guys who make new talent look good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> That Punk-Rey match was really something else for a 6 minute match.
> 
> RAW IS JERICHO. Seriously, the guy is the anti-ROCK as far as I'm concerned in the sense that Jericho comes back, puts a ton of guys over, and wrestles some of the best damn television matches we've seen in quite some time. I REALLY hope he gets a fair shake at Mania and rewarded for his work with perhaps a nice 10-12 minute match at Mania with Randy Orton or somebody, that could probably revive Orton's career in terms of work. He'll probably just get squashed by Ryback because that's just how Jericho rolls and by reading his books I almost get the feeling that get gets OFF by jobbing or something :lol .
> 
> It's crazy to think how two of the most well read guys with some of the best wrestling related books ever in Foley and Jericho are the guys who make new talent look good.


Orton vs Jericho at Mania would raise my interest by 50%. Too bad it's not happening and if there's a chance of that, we might see something on Smackdown's spoilers tonight.

But as you said, Jericho will probably just job to one of "young guys", most likely Ryback.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Do you know what would raise my interest in Wrestlemania by 6000000000000%?
Jericho vs Lesnar. Too bad it isn't happening, as I'm quite disappointed by the match card so far tbh. I think a tear escaped my eye when Swagger pinned Orton in the chamber. Their feud will make sense, but I still don't anticipate I'll enjoy Del Rio vs Swagger very much.

Hopefully the midcard becomes something, with Bryan, Rhodes, maybe a returning Christian in the mix.



Srdjan99 said:


> Guys, which match is better in your opinion, Taker/Edge from Summerslam 2008 or Taker/Edge form WM 24?


Summerslam match is woaahhhh.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton vs Jericho at Mania would raise my interest by 50%. Too bad it's not happening and if there's a chance of that, we might see something on Smackdown's spoilers tonight.
> 
> But as you said, Jericho will probably just job to one of "young guys", most likely Ryback.


I don't see Jericho against Ryback unless they want to turn Ryback heel but even then, I don't think Jericho would be the choice. I see Jericho facing Ziggler at Mania. I think Ryback will face Henry at WrestleMania, Ryback needs a big win to regain his momentum from constantly losing to The Shield and Henry has been built very well since returning. And what happened to Orton's supposed heel turn soon? It could still happen, and if it does, then I could see him go against Sheamus. We've got 7 weeks until Mania so there's still plenty of time to build it. I just want some fresh matches on the card, I'm not to high on seeing Rock/Cena again and HHH/Lesnar, but I don't mind Ziggler/Jericho (I know you probably do though...). 



greendayedgehead said:


> Hopefully the midcard becomes something, with Bryan, Rhodes, maybe a returning Christian in the mix.


Bryan will likely face Kane, OR defend the Tag Titles against a team (possibly The Shield using the Freebird Rule) Rhodes probably won't be on the card and rightfully so, he hasn't done anything in months, I would LOVE Christian to be on the card, he hasn't been at a WrestleMania since WrestleMania 26, which is sad for a talent of his caliber, and he hasn't won a match at WrestleMania since WrestleMania 20.... but I don't think he'll be on it. I would love to see him face Cesaro for the US Title at Mania though.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

A whole hell of a lot of reviews from my Smackdown 2006 project.

*Paul Burchill vs. William Regal- March 10th, 2006
*This was the in ring debut for Paul Burchill under his new pirate gimmick. Regal had a HEARTY laugh at Burchill’s antics before the match, such as throwing beads and medallions into the crowd. However, Regal stopped laughing once Burchill whipped out a sword, which I found funny. Burchill got in a few moves to start the match before Regal took control. Regal’s control sequence here was pretty good for the time it lasted, which consisted of Regal killing Burchill with a knee to the face and hiding a choke from the referee. Burchill would then come back and hit a few moves and eventually finish Regal off with what I believe was called the “Walk the Plank.” Fine TV match here to debut Burchill’s new gimmick and Regal was good in this as well.
*Rating: **
*
*Chris Benoit vs. Gregory Helms – March 10th, 2006
*This was a champion versus champion match, as Benoit was the United States Champion going into this match while Helms was the reigning Cruserweight Champion. This felt like a basic television match, as it only went about five and a half minutes and nothing really noteworthy happened. With that said, there was still some decent action throughout to make this match worth a watch. Helms tapped out to the Crippler Crossface after he was thrown back into the ring by the other Cruserweights after he tried to escape. This was a perfectly fine wrestling match.
*Rating: **1/4
*
*Lashley vs. Finlay – March 17th, 2006
*These two had battled to two non-finishes the past two or so weeks so this match was a lumberjack match. Lashley immediately went after Finlay after he entered the ring and knocked him out of the ring with a boot to the face. The lumberjacks took sides in this match, with one side favoring the face (Lashley) and the other favoring the heel (Finlay). One spot I liked in this match was when Lashley was starting to build momentum and instead of trying to fight him off, Finlay just tossed Lashley to the wolves, where the lumberjacks put the boots to him. Finlay would pick up the win after he hit Lashley with a shaleighleigh. There was some good action here but outside of that, it’s skip able.
*Rating: **1/2
**Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio, and Randy Orton vs. MNM and Mark Henry – March 17th, 2006*
I originally dreaded watching this match, since I remember Angle and Mysterio having two matches against the team of Orton and Henry that ranged from either average too bad. I’m glad that I ended up watching this match though, since it ended up being entertaining throughout. The thing I enjoyed most about this match was how much of a prick Orton acted like throughout, such as him intentionally distracting the referee so people like Daivari could attack Rey Mysterio behind the referee’s back. The funniest part about this was that after doing that, he would go back to acting like the supportive tag team partner even though he couldn’t care less about helping out his partners. Mysterio playing the FIP in this match and eventually making his comeback was entertaining as well, as Mysterio’s offense is always fun to watch. This ended up being a pretty good and entertaining six man tag match.
*Rating: ****

*Rey Mysterio vs. Finlay – March 24th, 2006
*First impressions are everything and this match was the first time I saw these two great wrestlers have a match against each other. Needless to say, I want to see more matches between both of these men. They received nearly fifteen minutes to beat the shit out of each other and you know what the best part about that is? This match had ZERO commercial breaks so we get to watch Finlay and Mysterio beat the shit out of each other for fifteen minutes uninterrupted! Speaking of beating the shit out of each other, this match has some VERY stiff shots in it; some of which were so hard that it made me feel like I felt the clubbing blows and stiff kicks these two men dealt out to each other. Another thing I liked about this match was the work on Mysterio’s spine that Finlay did, which is something you don’t see that often in pro wrestling today. I’ve also never seen an uppercut to the spine (which Finlay did twice), which was pretty cool and unique. No one man had the advantage over the other for too long, which is always nice and makes a match much more enjoyable (even though I wouldn’t have minded if Finlay’s spine work continued for a couple of more minutes). When people talk about Smackdown in the year 2006, this match always comes up and now I see why. This was just fifteen minutes of pure awesomeness!
*Rating: **** *

*Chris Benoit vs. William Regal – March 24th, 2006*
This match received just less than five minutes but these two made the most of the short amount of time they received. They started off with some technical wrestling which they did well until the match turned into a bit of a brawl, as they went to the outside of the ring and Regal ended up kicking Benoit’s head, which was against the ring post, in a sick spot and made me cringe. Speaking of spots in this match that made me cringe, Benoit chopped Regal in the face twice, which you knew hurt like hell and because of that, made me cringe as well. These two ended up having a much longer match at the No Mercy Pay Per View seven months later in October and I look forward to watching that match when I get to that time period in this project. For now, however, this was a good appetizer.
*Rating: **1/2*

*JBL vs. Chris Benoit – April 2nd, 2006*
The last time I watched this match was about three years ago and I remember enjoying it so let’s see if it holds up. I’m also reviewing this match because Big Z said this was one of the two Smackdown matches (with Kennedy/Taker from Survivor Series) that were worth watching on the “Big 4” Pay Per Views. JBL played the role of a complete prick well, in between him attempting to do Eddie Guerrero’s three amigos move on Benoit and mocking the mannerisms of both Guerrero and Benoit throughout the course of the match. Sadly, the crowd was a bit dead for this match outside of Benoit’s comeback, which is a shame since they were hot for most of the night (especially during HHH/Cena). JBL ended up winning the United States Championship from Benoit after rolling through and holding the ropes when Benoit was attempting to put the cripple crossface onto him. I didn’t enjoy this as much as I did three years ago, but Big Z was right when he said this was worth a watch.
*Rating: **3/4*

*MNM vs. Brian Kendrick and Paul London – April 7th, 2006*
I remember these two having a **3/4 match about two months ago on another edition of Smackdown so I hope these two teams at least match the quality of their first match here in their second encounter. During MNM’s entrance, London and Kendrick tried to abduct Melina as she was doing her signature ring entrance, which led to the two teams fighting on the outside of the ring for a couple of seconds before going into the ring to start the match. Kendrick would become isolated from his partner and play the role of the FIP for a decent length of time. During this stretch, MNM would assault Kendrick behind the referee’s back, including Melina, who got involved in the match numerous times when the referee’s back was turned. Kendrick would eventually get the tag to Paul London, who came in like a house of fire. After a few real close near-falls, London would pick up the win for his team after rolling up Mercury. This match was longer than their first encounter (nine minutes compared to six minutes) and because of that, they received more time to work and showcase their stuff. This was a great tag team match that was just a bit better than their first encounter.
*Rating: ****

*Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton – April 7th, 2006*
This is the long-awaiting rematch between these men (at least for me) and the match that should have, at least in my opinion, main evented Wrestlemania instead of the crappy triple threat match we ended up getting. Rey Mysterio had just won the World Heavyweight Championship five nights before at Wrestlemania and Orton was looking to end Mysterio’s title reign after only five days as champion. Both men take it slow to open up the match, as they trade headlocks in the opening moments. It was a back and forth match for the first nine minutes or so until Orton hit Mysterio with a dropkick as Mysterio was going for a springboard off of the ropes, which put Orton on the advantage. Orton held the advantage for a couple of minutes until Mysterio caught him with a boot to the face as Orton attempted an elbow from the middle rope. After that, they traded very close near falls as well as taking part in some very nice spots, such as Orton nearly killing Mysterio with a clothesline. Mysterio would eventually put Orton away after two 619s (the first of which he used the ring post instead of the ropes) and dropping the dime. I didn’t enjoy this as much as their No Way Out match, but this was a damn fine World Heavyweight Championship match that should have been the main event of Wrestlemania 22.
*Rating: ***1/2*

*JBL vs. Chris Benoit – April 14th, 2006*
This match was made a steel cage match just before the bell rang, as general manager Theodore Long came out and announced the stipulation after both men had entered the ring. As the cage was being lowered, JBL was on his hands and knees begging referee Nick Patrick to cancel the match even though he couldn’t do a thing about it. This match was hard-hitting and physical, much like their encounter at Wrestlemania. The match also included some high spots, such as a Russian leg-sweep and a German suplex off of the top rope, which is something you wouldn’t expect in a match between these two men. In the end, JBL ended up retaining the title after low-blowing Benoit as Benoit was going for another German suplex and crawling out of the cage as quickly as he could. This was better than their Wrestlemania match and probably one of JBL’s best singles matches that I can remember.
*Rating: ***1/2*

*Kurt Angle vs. Randy Orton – April 14th, 2006*
This was the opening round (and match) of Smackdown’s King of the Ring tournament. The story of the match was that Angle wanted to take his frustrations out on Randy Orton, since he blamed Orton for him losing the World Heavyweight Championship at Wrestlemania. Angle went for the ankle lock on multiple occasions during the match, but each time Orton got out of it. Both men during the match took nasty bumps to the outside of the ring as well. Orton favored his ankle most of the match and that eventually came into play, as Angle finally locked in the ankle lock on his third attempt and Orton ended up tapping out. There was some good action in this short, nine minute match and it could have been better had they received about five more minutes. Angle would eventually come back to the ring after the match multiple times to lock in the ankle lock on Randy Orton again, leading to him eventually “breaking” Orton’s ankle. This would be Orton’s last match on Smackdown in 2006, as he was suspended for thirty (?) days because of an incident in a hotel room. After that suspension, he would end up being moved to Monday Night Raw. This was a good match to end Orton’s run on Smackdown and it’s a damn shame that this was his final match on Smackdown in 2006, seeing as he was, at least up to this point, having a career year both match quality wise and character wise.
*Rating: ****

*Booker T vs. Matt Hardy – April 21st, 2006*
This was the second opening round match in the King of the Ring tournament, and the winner of this match would go on to face Kurt Angle in the semi-finals in a couple of weeks. The opening sequence of this match was pretty dull outside of Matt Hardy’s attempted moonsult, which was unsuccessful. Both men had about an equal amount of offense before the commercial break until Matt Hardy went for the Twist of Fate, but Booker countered and Sharmell lowered the top rope, which sent Matt Hardy flying to the outside of the ring. Booker’s control segment consisted of a few rest holds and a couple of other moves, such as a super kick. The final two minutes or so we good and the second half of the match (after the commercial break) was fine but outside of that, it ended up being pretty average. The match went pretty long, clocking in a fifteen minutes, and had it been cut down by about five or so minutes, it could have been better.
*Rating: **1/4*

*Paul London vs. Joey Mercury – April 21st, 2006
*Paul London was looking to continue he and Kendrick’s winning streak over MNM, as they defeated MNM two weeks ago and Kendrick defeated Johnny Nitro last week. Some high-flying moves to start off until Mercury stopped London dead in his tracks and gained the advantage. Nitro and Melina both played their roles well by attacking London almost every time the referee had his back turned, even to the point of Nitro coming into the ring and performing a double team move onto London with Mercury. London and Mercury ended up getting a decent amount of time to perform for mid-carders (about eight minutes) and they ended up producing something good, but I can’t help to think that they could have produced something somewhat better.
*Rating: **1/2*

*JBL vs. William Regal – April 28th, 2006*
JBL cut a great (and hilarious) promo before the match where he made fun of the United Kingdom (and England specifically). William Regal eventually came out to shut him up to a loud pop and accepted JBL’s open challenge for the United States Championship. This match was hard-hitting as you would expect from a match involving these two men. It was so hard-hitting that Regal ended up getting his ear busted open the hard way from what I think was a boot to the ear by JBL. After Regal busted his ear open, JBL went on the attack and started hammering away with hard punches right to the busted open ear of Regal. Outside of a few spots though, this match was pretty dull but the crowd made up for it somewhat. JBL picked up the win after a somewhat botched Clothesline from Hell when he ended up basically clotheslining Regal right in the face.
*Rating: **
*
*Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio – April 28th, 2006
*This was Kurt Angle’s rematch for the World Heavyweight Championship after losing the title at Wrestlemania 22. This was your standard Kurt Angle match, with a lot of spots and near falls, except it was just a bit better because Rey Mysterio was involved. The match was pretty even to start out until Angle delivered a belly to belly suplex on Mysterio, which sent Mysterio over the top rope and onto the floor. This sent the match to a commercial break and when the match returned from the commercial break, Angle was in control but not for long, as both men soon started to trade spot after spot and near fall for near fall. I could see how some could hate this match but I found it enjoyable somewhat even though it wasn’t the most technically sound match of all time. This is nothing you should go out of your way to watch but if you’re looking for a TV main event that is easy to watch, this is it.
*Rating: **3/4
*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Watching WWE with casuals is fun. The last thing I watched was Mania 28 and my dad actually died from laughter during Big Show vs. Cody. I mean, he thought it was the most hilarious thing he had ever seen, watching Show maul the fuck out of Cody. It made the whole thing much more enjoyable for me watching it with him. Any time Cody got offence in he was like nahhhhh, then when Show got him back he was dying at the beating he gave Rhodes. It was brilliant lol. He was totally sucked in by HHH/Taker and Rock/Cena though and got well into both matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Atleast Rock vs Cena II makes sense in some aspect, Rock has the title and Cena won the Rumble en route to his redemption... I fucking hate that it's happening, but atleast it has a REASON FOR FUCKING HAPPENING.

What reason would BROCK vs GAME have for existing ? Every single time that they've been in the ring together Brock has fucked Triple H up, breaking his arm not once but twice. Brock literally has no reason to fight Triple H, even if Triple H wants his revenge on Brock for hurting his daddy in law. The Summerslam match told a simple story ; Trips found Brock's biggest weakness and hit him with literally everything he had and it still wasn't good enough to stop the monster. Where the hell could they possibly go from here, it's damn near impossible ? SOMETHING needs to be added in order for Brock to accept this match or it has no reason to exist at all.

Not just a stipulation or a lucrative contract or anything like that, I mean something BIG like control of the company for Heyman, or Triple H's career. That's literally the ONLY FUCKING WAY THIS WORKS.

EDIT : Watching with casuals is THE BEST and it honestly made Wrestlemania XXVIII one of the most enjoyable viewing experiences I've had for a PPV as it was the first huge gathering of people I've watched an event with since 2008 (usually it's just 5 or 6 of us "smarks" who order it at my house or something). You always get the "who's the hottest diva" conversation, as well as "Undertaker is still wrestling?". Pretty sure I was like the only person who didn't want ROCK to win at XXVIII, and that trend will probably continue this year :lol .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The one thing that sucks about Lesnar being back is that there's a bunch of matches that would've been awesome involving him and parts of the roster, but they'll never do them because they're so invested on him only having a few big matches. I'm assuming Brock only wants a few matches anyway though. But it's disappointing that we can't see '03 Brock that was having awesome matches with midcarders at times.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar/HHH will happen now because Lesnar F-5'd HHH's daddy in-law. That's all the sense it needs. HHH will put aside any fear/reservations about fighting Lesnar to try and avenge Vince.

It makes sense on HHH's part, but on Lesnar's part it doesn't... unless he gets off on whooping HHH's ass and breaking his arm. :brock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I mean, BROCK has literally NO REASON to wrestle Triple H. GAME had to bring in the whole fucking family to even convince Lesnar to fight him last time, and now that GAME has already been fucked up on more than one occasion, something else is going to have to be on the line for their Mania match. Even if Monday comes and in the obvious Lesnar-HHH brawl that's incoming HHH gets the best of it, Brock still has NO FUCKING REASON TO FIGHT HIM ! 

There's going to be a stipulation added but I have no idea what it's going to be. I HIGHLY doubt it's going to be Triple H's career since I think that in probably 10-15 years that Trips will be in the Mr. McMahon role as a character who is essentially the powerhouse boss. Probably something really stupid .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I don't see Jericho against Ryback unless they want to turn Ryback heel but even then, I don't think Jericho would be the choice. I see Jericho facing Ziggler at Mania. I think Ryback will face Henry at WrestleMania, Ryback needs a big win to regain his momentum from constantly losing to The Shield and Henry has been built very well since returning. And what happened to Orton's supposed heel turn soon? It could still happen, and if it does, then I could see him go against Sheamus. We've got 7 weeks until Mania so there's still plenty of time to build it. I just want some fresh matches on the card, I'm not to high on seeing Rock/Cena again and HHH/Lesnar, but I don't mind Ziggler/Jericho (I know you probably do though...).


I wouldn't mind Jericho/Ziggler if it wasn't yet another rematch. Would much rather have Orton/Jericho since the only time they really had a match was 5 years ago and it ended by DQ. And obviously Jericho/Bryan which hasn't happened as anything more than a short TV match.



GOON The Legend said:


> This would be Orton’s last match on Smackdown in 2006, as he was suspended for thirty (?) days because of an incident in a hotel room. After that suspension, he would end up being moved to Monday Night Raw. This was a good match to end Orton’s run on Smackdown and it’s a damn shame that this was his final match on Smackdown in 2006, seeing as he was, at least up to this point, having a career year both match quality wise and character wise.


Great post and for the most part, I agree. But to correct this quote, Orton got suspended for 60 days because he had a bad attitude towards women and everyone in the lockerroom was starting to hate him. The move to Raw was just to repair his damaged reputation in the back. Similar to his 2005 move from Raw to SD which happened because they wanted to "start over" with him.

And in that 6 man tag involving Orton/Rey/Angle vs MNM/Henry, one part that made me laugh was Orton holding his ears when Melina did her vintage scream.



Pierre McDunk said:


> The one thing that sucks about Lesnar being back is that there's a bunch of matches that would've been awesome involving him and parts of the roster, but they'll never do them because they're so invested on him only having a few big matches. I'm assuming Brock only wants a few matches anyway though. But it's disappointing that we can't see '03 Brock that was having awesome matches with midcarders at times.


Yeah, I really wish he would appear in more matches than just that. Not to "put over" like all the boring businessmen-wannabes say on this forum, but just for the quality. I would love to see him in squash matches with midcard wrestlers and more competitive victorious efforts against the likes of Orton and Sheamus. They would all be worth it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I agree with Brye on Lesnar. Rock's the same really. Both two big to work TV matches with the upcoming stars, only the big drawing matches on PPV.



Starbuck said:


> Watching WWE with casuals is fun. The last thing I watched was Mania 28 and my dad actually died from laughter during Big Show vs. Cody. I mean, he thought it was the most hilarious thing he had ever seen, watching Show maul the fuck out of Cody. It made the whole thing much more enjoyable for me watching it with him. Any time Cody got offence in he was like nahhhhh, then when Show got him back he was dying at the beating he gave Rhodes. It was brilliant lol. He was totally sucked in by HHH/Taker and Rock/Cena though and got well into both matches.


I watched WrestleMania 28 with 4 friends and my brother. Two friends of which hadn't seen any wrestling in years, so they were a casual to the current product, and one friend who never watched wrestling at all and only seen wrestling through some matches I showed him on DVD's, so it was a real experience for him (his first live experience of wrestling). The Atmosphere just watching it with those friends was just so different to just watching PPV's with my brother for example, it was a very good experience and it made me enjoy WrestleMania 28 a lot more than I would of done if I was watching it by myself or just with my brother.



Choke2Death said:


> I wouldn't mind Jericho/Ziggler if it wasn't yet another rematch. Would much rather have Orton/Jericho since the only time they really had a match was 5 years ago and it ended by DQ. And obviously Jericho/Bryan which hasn't happened as anything more than a short TV match.


Orton/Jericho would be a good match. I remember they were going to a PPV match last year but they both got suspended (Orton wellness policy I think, Jericho that flag incident) at least they were building to it.. then Jericho left a few months later.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd actually be extremely excited for this Wrestlemania if it wasn't just full of rematches. If we got Cena/Rock for the first time with seven weeks of build up instead of 52 weeks. If we got Brock/HHH for the first time in a brutal, hard hitting affair that a lot of people have been wanting since 2002. If we got Jericho/Ziggler for the first time in a match that truly is a clash of the generations, with both men being so similar but so different at the same time. If we got Bryan/Kane in the real end of Team Hell No, after putting the tag division back on the map. o kinda') But the fact that every one of these matches are rematches just make this Wrestlemania one of the most uninteresting Wrestlemanias of all time, at least so far anyway. Hopefully they can turn it around.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

KingOfKings said:


> I HIGHLY doubt it's going to be Triple H's career since I think that in probably 10-15 years that Trips will be in the Mr. McMahon role as a character who is essentially the powerhouse boss.


When that happens, I hope he insists on everyone calling him Mr. Helmsley.

I also hope it happens much sooner than that. Trips would be amazing in that role but the rate things are going, I doubt I'll have any interest in the product once guys like Bryan, Punk and Jericho retire. The Shield gives me a little hope.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I agree with Brye on Lesnar. Rock's the same really. Both two big to work TV matches with the upcoming stars, only the big drawing matches on PPV.
> 
> 
> 
> I watched WrestleMania 28 with 4 friends and my brother. Two friends of which hadn't seen any wrestling in years, so they were a casual to the current product, and one friend who never watched wrestling at all and only seen wrestling through some matches I showed him on DVD's, so it was a real experience for him (his first live experience of wrestling). The Atmosphere just watching it with those friends was just so different to just watching PPV's with my brother for example, it was a very good experience and it made me enjoy WrestleMania 28 a lot more than I would of done if I was watching it by myself or just with my brother.


That's why I love Jericho when it comes to his work. He's willing to go out there and face anyone when he comes back.

And I've actually turned a few of my friends into fairly educated wrestling fans. Makes conversations about booking and such much more fun.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock has no reason to fight HHH unless there is something on line like *KOK *has said. They could make Brock a sadistic fucker who just wants to end his career once and for all, they could do a control of the company type of deal or they could have HHH fuck up Heyman to piss Lesnar off and into taking a match. Other than that though, Brock has absolutely no reason to want to fight him again. 

On the same token, Undertaker has no reason to want to fight Punk so if that match happens I don't see Taker making the challenge. Why would he want to fight Punk? Kayfabe wise he brings nothing to the table, there's no reason for him to want to fight him or even want to challenge him. That isn't going to work either. 

I don't think Brock has signed up to work with midcarders tbh. I think he's there to work the big names, do what he has to do and make as much money as he can and that's totally fine with me. I'm just happy to have him back.

GAME in the boss role is going to own so hard. I can't wait for that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> On the same token, Undertaker has no reason to want to fight Punk so if that match happens I don't see Taker making the challenge. Why would he want to fight Punk? Kayfabe wise he brings nothing to the table, there's no reason for him to want to fight him or even want to challenge him. That isn't going to work either.


Taker doesn't really have a reason to fight anybody though, including Lesnar... unless...

*gasp* ... they actually use history from more than 2 months ago to fuel it. Not even that, it'd need to be from more than 2 years ago... 10 years for that matter. No way Vince will do it. 

The appeal in Taker/Punk is the match itself will probably be amazing. I really want Taker to work with Lesnar, but Taker/Punk works as well. The feud writes itself. All you need is for Punk to have a reason to fight Taker, and that's the demand for respect and to be acknowledged as the best in the world, and ending the streak would prove just that. Taker, kayfabe wise, will fight whoever wants to fight him at Mania if he hasn't already solidly beat them at the event. Hell, if they do Taker/Brock, it'll just be HHH/Vince asking Taker to come back and stop Brock, which while Taker has no real reason to (unless what I said above happens), he will anyway.

The biggest issue with Taker/Punk is Punk, after losing to The Rock twice (even in controversial fashion) looks no where near enough of a threat to the streak after what Taker's gone through the last few years. But that's of no concern to me as a "smark" because I know that no one is a true threat to the streak except Cena. I know Lesnar's not going to end the streak. I know Punk's not going to end the streak. I don't care though as long as the match is awesome, which whether Taker/Lesnar or Taker/Punk, it will be. And to casuals, well, they're primarily ordering as Rock fans or Cena fans for the big Rock/Cena match, and them doing Taker/Lesnar over Taker/Punk and Lesnar/HHH would only make a small difference by that point. And casuals are drawn in by the streak match in general, so it'll still be a big match.

Hopefully it is Taker/Lesnar, but I just want Taker wrestling and if it can't be against Lesnar, if it can't be against Cena, and if it can't be against Rock, I'm more than happy with him facing Punk.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think Taker/Punk will be amazing. That's the worst use of Taker for me and I don't want to see it. I also think the storyline would be beyond stupid because nobody in their right mind can even pretend to let themselves believe Punk can win and not after 2 straight losses to Rock and then a loss against Cena. Taker making the challenge would be even more stupid and Taker accepting the match just so Punk can prove himself would be just as bad. It doesn't work for me on any level. I feel like I've said this a million times but the discussion keeps coming up every other day it seems. Wish WWE would just put us out of our misery and ANNOUNCE the fucking match, whatever it's going to be.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They're in Texas next week and Taker's probably going to cost Punk his shot for ridiculous reasons that he'll explain next week. I'm not buying into ANYTHING else until a fucking miracle occurs and Punk wins or Taker confronts BROCK which will never fucking happen and I'm not being trolled by Vince into thinking anything other than Rematch-Mania is happen when it's CLEARLY happening and they're just killing time until Rock can actually appear for the company (which pisses me off but I'm not getting into that).

So Rock's not here next RAW, he's here for the week after, and then he's gone for another TWO. WHAT THE FUCK IS JOHN CENA GOING TO DO FOR THOSE TWO WEEKS? Thankfully we're only going to get 3 RAWs with actual Rock-Cena confrontations before Wrestlemania, and only three ROCK appearances in general. That makes me pretty fucking happy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hope Undertaker vs Punk happens just to annoy people.

Everyone is so jaded now that b/c of "The Streak" nobody can buy Undertaker vs anyone else unless it's Triple H or Shawn Michaels. GTFO. Match would be 100x more interesting than the tripe main event that's on tap.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> That's why I love Jericho when it comes to his work. He's willing to go out there and face anyone when he comes back.


Agreed. And Jericho's been putting on some of the best TV matches since returning, guy's on top form, and to do that at the age of 42 is something very impressive. 

I just wish he wouldn't lose so often :/ I was rooting for him in the Chamber match and was disappointed when he got eliminated. I don't think he needed to lose to The Big Show on that Smackdown episode recently. I get Jericho likes to put over new talent, that's good, I appreciate he did it for Punk and Ziggler, but he doesn't need to lose all the time.



Pierre McDunk said:


> And I've actually turned a few of my friends into fairly educated wrestling fans. Makes conversations about booking and such much more fun.


Two of the friends that I mentioned in that post (one being the former fan who's a casual now and the other who had never watching wrestling before growing up) I've educated a lot about wrestling, through talking about it, watching classic matches on DVD's, and watching the current product through live PPV's. I've got them both really interested it and they're familiar with many of the wrestlers in the WWE currently now, they're familiar with many wrestling terms like selling and they understand why certain matches are structured in a certain way and stuff, and they have an interest in the results of certain matches/shows they don't get to see.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> I hope Undertaker vs Punk happens just to annoy people.
> 
> Everyone is so jaded now that b/c of "The Streak" nobody can buy Undertaker vs anyone else unless it's Triple H or Shawn Michaels. GTFO. Match would be 100x more interesting than the tripe main event that's on tap.


Annoy me lol? I won't be annoyed. I just won't care. I didn't enjoy their last matches in 2009 and the prospect of any future match between them doesn't interest me in the slightest.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Annoy me lol? I won't be annoyed. *I just won't care.* I didn't enjoy their last matches in 2009 and the prospect of any future match between them doesn't interest me in the slightest.


I'm a Punk fan and I find it hard to care for the idea of a Punk/Taker match at Mania. The feud would seem forced and pointless, and after the year Punk's had he shouldn't be stuck in the middle of the card against Taker at Mania. In my opinion, Punk should face Punk and Rock at Mania in a triple threat, the match would make much more sense then Punk/Taker and Punk needs a WrestleMania main-event, it's one of the only thing left in his career he needs to have.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk/Taker would be interesting but not necessarily good. Plus, what would they do for build up? Sure, Punk can cut a few promos but Taker would just turn up and talk about taking souls etc. Punk can hardly 'drop a pipebomb' about Taker not actually being dead can he? They wouldn't even have a scuffle or anything before hand like they did with The Rock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I hope for Punk/Taker just so they can get him the fuck out of the title picture since that'll be the least he'll get. Personally I'd prefer if he put over Ryback (specially for KOK's reaction!) but they seemingly put him in the same class as the "five specials" and HAVE to somehow involve him with them.

I'd much rather have BORK/Taker but seems like all the talk of BORK being too physical might be the issue here.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Annoy me lol? I won't be annoyed. I just won't care. I didn't enjoy their last matches in 2009 and the prospect of any future match between them doesn't interest me in the slightest.


I agree.

Undertaker vs Lesnar is the only match i want to see at Wrestlemania.Punk is not a threat to Taker even if it wasn't at Wrestlemania.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I think it's p. obvious that we're getting a triple threat at Wrestlemania between Dwayne/Cena/Punk. Why else would they do a Cena/Punk match for the main event spot? Plus, Punk hasn't even hinted at him facing Undertaker at Wrestlemania. They have no reason to feud at all.

Either we're going to get a double pin, thus making it a Triple Threat, or Punk will win in some screwy way and Cena will be put in the main event next week. It would be similar to Orton/Rey in 2006 and how Rey would eventually get in the main event.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Punk/Taker will be fucking awful imo. Punk is the current/one of the current top heel(s) in the company, however he is the delusional asshole coward, not the tough guy/monster. Punk is not a legitimate threat to the Undertaker. The fact that Punk has failed to win any PPV matches cleanly since his heel turn has done the damage. Punk makes a great heel, but not one suited to the Undertaker. The Undertaker should be facing monster heels only, *COUGH* Brock Lesnar *COUGH* The fact that the Shield got better booking(which was/is great) VS top faces(Sheamus,RyBack,Cena) shows how little true credibility Punk has as a heel.(which is what his current character is all about really, clinging onto strings and fake wins)


All in all :Taker should be facing Brock, Punk should be facing HHH or Triple Threat with Cena/Rock.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Cena/Punk/Rock cause i want Punk in the main event or
Punk/Taker if Rock/Cena 2 has to happen.

Basically Punk should be in a huge match at WM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

robertdeniro said:


> I agree.
> 
> Undertaker vs Lesnar is the only match i want to see at Wrestlemania.*Punk is not a threat to Taker even if it wasn't at Wrestlemania.*


I'll never grasp this mentality in a million years. If current credible main events of WWE aren't a "threat" then why should anyone care about them in the first place?

Now it's the era of making WrestleMania all about the semi-retired dudes coming out of the woodwork to have a match for one night and then the rest of the year meaning absolutely nothing till the next WM comes around for the same full time workers to get snubbed. Terrific stuff.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

At this point, there's no time to build a feud with Punk that would do justice for a streak angle. Especially considering the two feuds he's just come down from; fifteen years of history with Michaels, just under that with HHH. You don't just throw someone into a feud with Taker at this point.




Nostalgia said:


> Rhodes probably won't be on the card and rightfully so, he hasn't done anything in months


What do you mean  he grew a cool moustache



The Rawk said:


> Taker doesn't really have a reason to fight anybody though, including Lesnar... unless...
> 
> *gasp* ... *they actually use history from more than 2 months ago to fuel it.*


dnt be ridiculus


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

> Originally Posted by HayleySabin
> 
> I'll never grasp this mentality in a million years. If current credible main events of WWE aren't a "threat" then why should anyone care about them in the first place?
> 
> Now it's the era of making WrestleMania all about the semi-retired dudes coming out of the woodwork to have a match for one night and then the rest of the year meaning absolutely nothing till the next WM comes around for the same full time workers to get snubbed. Terrific stuff.


^^ Because of the way he was booked in the last 3-4 months i don't think i will buy him as threat to Taker IMHO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh, he's been screwed over by crummy finishes vs The Rock. If anything, those were used "save" him as best they could. (by WWE's logic of course)

I'd have no problems buying into it. Undertaker will defeat Brock just as easily as he could defeat Punk. The win is inevitable. So, either heel would be in the same place. Only each bring their different x factors to the mix.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd rather see BROCK/Taker a million times over Punk/Taker. We know what the outcome will be in either match, but I think Brock would turn in a more memorable performance.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

@HayleySabin Do you really think anyone will buy Punk as a threat when he's already been beaten by Rock twice and maybe Cena ? also Taker/Punk doesn't make any sence.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Surely there's only two ways they can go from here in regards to Punk:

1) The match against Cena next week ends in a double countout/ they pin each other etc. This is an obvious ending but it's easy to do and makes it simple to add Punk to the main event.

2) Heyman turns on Punk (for being hit by the belt or whatever) and sets Lesnar on him during the match next week (he is scheduled), costing Punk the match and setting him up with Lesnar for 'Mania.

I really can't see Taker/Punk happening. How does Taker fit in to any of this? Why would he cost Punk the match next week as some have suggested?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I hope for Punk/Taker just so they can get him the fuck out of the title picture since that'll be the least he'll get. *Personally I'd prefer if he put over Ryback (specially for KOK's reaction!)* but they seemingly put him in the same class as the "five specials" and HAVE to somehow involve him with them.
> 
> I'd much rather have BORK/Taker but seems like all the talk of BORK being too physical might be the issue here.


THANKFULLY that's not going to happen at this point as Ryback looks to be involved with Sheamus and or Jericho in some capacity THANK GOD... But if it ever did happen I'd probably stop watching until Punk is back in the main event picture and tune in every now and then to catch BROCK when he's there.

There are two options for Punk at this point ; The obvious Punk-Taker match that I'm 100 percent convinced will happen, or the triple threat match with Rock and Cena. Now, all logic at this point WOULD SUGGEST that we're getting Punk-Cena-Rock due to the fact that Rock's only going to be there for half of the Wrestlemania build and the fact they'd want Cena to go over both of them without shattering the "once in a lifetime" label.... But it's the WWE we're talking about here and Punk's not getting a Wrestlemania main event until XXXI at the very LEAST.

However, in a match against the Undertaker, this Mania can be remembered by the performance both guys put on. Taker suddenly turns into the greatest Wrestler of all time when Wrestlemania rolls around, and Punk's already the best in the company so it's a match made in heaven from a pure MATCH perspective... Don't know about DAT FEUD though. 

I'm 99.9 percent sure that Wrestlemania is going to be Cena going over Rock, Taker going over Punk, and despite what some people may believe, BROCK going over HHH. GAME IS A WRESTLEMANIA JOBBER FFS, WHY DOES EVERYBODY THINK HE WOULD GO OVER ?!?!?! They need to put Lesnar over and build him up for Rock or Taker at XXX once the inevitable Rock-Cena III happens (it will, trust me) and I fly to New Orleans and drive a stake through Vince McMahon's heart.

I'm expecting literally NO swerves and NO surprises. It was insanely obvious at this time last year that we were getting Punk-Jericho and HHH-Taker but yet everybody was clinging onto hope that we would get Punk-HHH and Taker-Jericho (like myself) .... There's literally SIX FUCKING RAWs LEFT and they have built up NOTHING. Remember the build up to Kane-Taker that lasted a fucking year ? ..... There are no reasons yet for ANYBODY TO TAKE ON ANYBODY.

If the WWE was LOGICAL (they aren't) , Punk would be in the main event in a triple threat match because his character fucking REVOLVES AROUND THE TITLE. Until Punk LEAVES, his character will revolve around holding SOME World Championship or trying to gain number one contendership to SOME World Championship... Plus we wouldn't have Cena talking to himself for THREE FUCKING WEEKS building up to Wrestlemania. 

What would they do with BROCK ? Well LOGIC (again, something WWE will never fucking use) would suggest that he goes to destroy McMahon and help Heyman next week and GAME shows up. What happens when GAME shows up ? He gets FUCKED UP AGAIN, prompting HHH to call upon his BFF Undertaker to save the fucking company from being overrun by Heyman and settling the score for some bad blood over the years. BROCK is a fucking bloodthirsty maniac so granted he destroys Undertaker in every encounter leading up to Mania.

but... NOOOOOOOOOOOO! WE HAVE TO FUCKING SIT THROUGH A SHITTY ROCK-CENA II MATCH THAT SERVES NO PURPOSE OTHER THEN BEING FAP MATERIAL FOR VINCE, AND TRIPLE H AGAINST BROCK FUCKING LESNAR IN A MATCH THAT SHOULD NOT FUCKING EXIST ! THE BUILD UP FOR BOTH MATCHUPS WILL BE HORRENDOUS BECAUSE IF WE SAW LESNAR BREAK TRIPLE H'S ARM TWICE WHY SHOULD WE FUCKING CARE ! IF ROCK IS LEAVING AFTER WRESTLEMANIA THEN WHY SHOULD WE FUCKING CARE ! Punk-Taker is cool in my books though.... Just saying .

As you can probably tell I'm a little pissed off about the way Mania is going.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Surely there's only two ways they can go from here in regards to Punk:
> 
> 1) The match against Cena next week ends in a double countout/ they pin each other etc. This is an obvious ending but it's easy to do and makes it simple to add Punk to the main event.
> 
> ...


 I agree with this. I can't Taker interfering in the match because as you said, Taker has no beef with Punk. CM Punk hasn't even said anything about Taker during his 434 day title reign. The only realistic way Punk will actually face Taker is if Punk challenges the streak or if Punk says his title streak was the greatest streak ever and then Taker music hits. Something like that.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I think BORK/Taker could be more entertaining just based on the fact that BORK could legit knock Undertaker out and not know it until Undertaker fails to kick out at two and a half, thus ending the streak.

I'm about to watch Elimination Chamber. I'll be back with a review in a bit. I hope I enjoy Punk/Rock II more so than I did their first encounter but I'm not going to hold out hope.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Watching WWE with casuals is fun. The last thing I watched was Mania 28 and my dad actually died from laughter during Big Show vs. Cody. I mean, he thought it was the most hilarious thing he had ever seen, watching Show maul the fuck out of Cody. It made the whole thing much more enjoyable for me watching it with him. Any time Cody got offence in he was like nahhhhh, then when Show got him back he was dying at the beating he gave Rhodes. It was brilliant lol. He was totally sucked in by HHH/Taker and Rock/Cena though and got well into both matches.


I agree, watching WWE with casuals is awesome. For so many years I was forced to watch wrestling by myself because it's frowned upon these days. Sure, every once in awhile I'd watch a PPV with a friend, but that stopped years ago. 

One day I was watching Raw in October through a stream and my roommate walked into my room and asked me what I was doing. Told him I was watching some wrassling. He told me he used to watch it a long time ago, but stopped. I told him to grab a seat and watch the show with me to give it another shot. He did. 

Now he's hooked. We watch every Raw and every PPV together. For every Raw we have a tradition where we make Butter Chicken and then watch the show while eating. It's fun times. 

At first he marked for all the good guys, but I showed him this site and now he's a smark. Once you go smark you can't go back!


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Miz/Cesaro from Elimination Chamber might be one of Miz's best non-gimmick singles matches in years.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

robertdeniro said:


> @HayleySabin Do you really think anyone will buy Punk as a threat when he's already been beaten by Rock twice and maybe Cena ? also Taker/Punk doesn't make any sence.





HayleySabin said:


> Eh, he's been screwed over by crummy finishes vs The Rock. If anything, those were used "save" him as best they could. (by WWE's logic of course)
> 
> I'd have no problems buying into it. Undertaker will defeat Brock just as easily as he could defeat Punk. The win is inevitable. So, either heel would be in the same place. Only each bring their different x factors to the mix.


Don't know why I had to repeat myself...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Half way into WM 3 now. Nothing has been GOOD in terms of stars and shit, but all the matches so far have been really short and haven't had the time to be good. That being said, pretty much everything has been FUN. I'm actually enjoying this event lol. Only skipped one match (midgets, fatty and hillbilly match).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seeing Bundy squash one of the mini lads is too funny though. Should have watched. :hmm:

Fun Mania. Not pleased about Koko vs Reed only going 3 minutes though. That was a bit of a buzzkill when I first watched it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just up to that match now. 3 minutes? Bah. Was hoping for a nice MID-SOUTH match with some half decent time at least.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH HAI CAL + CODY, STARZ 4 MANIAS XXVI and XXVII    ?

Watching HBK-Taker now and popping in Mania XXVII in a little bit, going to skip The Roid promo at the beginning as IMO it's one of the worst segments in Wrestlemania history... "When I say Wrestle, you say Mania" :lol :lol :lol

Haven't watched XXVII in a while and I have a fear that HHH-Taker is going to suck for me (I LOVE IT NOW) but I always enjoyed Punk-Orton and Mysterio-Rhodes. FUCK Cole-Lawler and Miz-Cena, that shit is just the worst. PS: FUCK THIS COMPANY for not giving Sheamus-Danielson a fair shake at these events.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No go.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

8 matches in to WM 3. CAL SCALE rating is -0.5 :lmao. Yet I've had so much more fun watching it than WM 1 and 2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> OH HAI CAL + CODY, STARZ 4 MANIAS XXVI and XXVII    ?
> 
> Watching HBK-Taker now and popping in Mania XXVII in a little bit, going to skip The Roid promo at the beginning as IMO it's one of the worst segments in Wrestlemania history... "When I say Wrestle, you say Mania" :lol :lol :lol
> 
> Haven't watched XXVII in a while and I have a fear that HHH-Taker is going to suck for me (I LOVE IT NOW) but I always enjoyed Punk-Orton and Mysterio-Rhodes. FUCK Cole-Lawler and Miz-Cena, that shit is just the worst. PS: FUCK THIS COMPANY for not giving Sheamus-Danielson a fair shake at these events.


26

Tag Championship - **
Orton vs Rhodes vs Dibiase Jr - ***
MITB VI - ***1/4
Game vs Sheamus - ***1/2
Punker vs Mysterio - ***1/2
Bret vs Vince - DUD
Jericho vs Edge - ***3/4
Divas - DUD
Cena vs Batista - **3/4
Undertaker vs Michaels - ****3/4

27

Edge vs Del Rio - ***1/2
Rhodes vs Mysterio - ***3/4
Corre vs Kane, Show, Kofi, Santino - DUD
Punker vs Orton - ***1/2
King vs Cole - DUD
Undertaker vs Game - **1/2
Dolph + whores vs Morrison, Trish, & useless pustule - DUD
Cena vs Miz - 1/2*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> 27
> 
> Edge vs Del Rio - ***1/2
> Rhodes vs Mysterio - ***3/4
> ...


The hell?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

26

Tag Championship - 3/4*
Orton vs Rhodes vs Dibiase Jr - *3/4
MITB VI - ***1/2
Game vs Sheamus - ***
Punker vs Mysterio - ***1/2
Bret vs Vince - DUD
Jericho vs Edge - ***1/2
Divas - DUD
Cena vs Batista - ***3/4
Undertaker vs Michaels - *****

27

Edge vs Del Rio - **1/2
Rhodes vs Mysterio - ****
Corre vs Kane, Show, Kofi, Santino - 1/4*
Punker vs Orton - **1/2
King vs Cole - 1/4*
Undertaker vs Game - ****3/4
Dolph + whores vs Morrison, Trish, & useless pustule - 1/4*
Cena vs Miz - 1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> The hell?


Shit sucks. 

Tries WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too hard to be something "epic"

I could go lower if I wanted to. Match pisses me off, tbhayley. Which you could tell by the annoying use of "y's" in the prior sentence. That was meant to make a point.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wrestlemania XXVII

Edge vs Del Rio - ★★★
Cody vs Mysterio - ★★★
Orton vs Punk - ★★★¼
Corre vs Kane, Show, Kofi & Santino - 0
Lawler vs Cole - ½★
Undertaker vs HHH - ★★★¾
Dolph & LayCool vs Morrisey, Trish & Snooki - 0
Cena vs MOZ - ¾★

What an awful Mania. One near great match, three decent match, two zeros and two half stars.

And KOK, if you wanna hate on ROCK's opening promo, you could pick "Yabba Dabba" instead of "WRESTLE MANIA" part of the sing-along. That was much worse.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Shit sucks.
> 
> Tries WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too hard to be something "epic"
> 
> I could go lower if I wanted to. Match pisses me off, tbhayley. Which you could tell by the annoying use of "y's" in the prior sentence. That was meant to make a point.


I just found that rating surprising coming for a big MARK fan such as yourself. I can see what you're saying with trying to manufacture an epic feel instead just creating it organically. I get a sense quite a few people HHH's supposed epic showdowns in that light. I totally bought into to this one, personally.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> I just found that rating surprising coming for a big MARK fan such as yourself. I can see what you're saying with trying to manufacture an epic feel instead just creating it organically. I get a sense quite a few people HHH's supposed epic showdowns in that light. I totally bought into to this one, personally.


There are the few exceptions for the Undertaker fandom that don't click for me. This being one of them. I was disinterested for the match the night it was slated to happen back on 2/21/11. Something about Undertaker vs Triple H screamed "who cares" to me. It wasn't until WM 28 made it a Hell in a Cell match did I managed to get personally invested this program.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

In terms of a single superstars year, who do you think had the best year in terms of wrestling, entertainment, match quality etc.

I think I'd have to hand it to Stone Cold back in 2001. That was one unbelievable year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Triple H Tombstoning Taker adds ** to your rating.

edit Flair 89, HBK 96/97, HHH 2000, Austin 2001


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Every time I see the topic get asked I always seem to jump towards Christian's mesmerizing 2009 or Flair's indescribable 1989.

Austin's 2001 is right up there with those two. No doubt.

Need to throw in two prime Eddie Guerrero years - 1997 & 2005. EDDIE :mark:

Oh and Mark Henry from 2011. Duh.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> In terms of a single superstars year, who do you think had the best year in terms of wrestling, entertainment, match quality etc.
> 
> I think I'd have to hand it to Stone Cold back in 2001. That was one unbelievable year.


Flair '89
HBK '96 & '97
Austin '01


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Triple H Tombstoning Taker adds ** to your rating.
> 
> edit HBK 96/97, HHH 2000, Austin 2001


Those plus Bret Hart in 94/95 and Nov. 96 - Nov. 97. Bret was consistent throughout his 13/14 year run in WWF.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Call me CRAZY, but am I the only one who thought that Austin had a better 1997 than HBK? Austin was just unstoppable from January until August, then even when he was out injured he was still the most over guy in the company.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Greatest prime ever ? Flair in 1989 and nobody else really even comes close to coming close.

When we're talking about strictly WWE, Shawn's 96/97 ON COKE shit was awesome as fuck and is definitely the tops to me alongside Bret's return in 96 to his departure in 97, Stone Cold's fantastic run in 2001 that was GOD LIKE, Hunter's always talked about run in 2000/2001 up until his first quad tear, BROCK DA GAWD's entire two year + two match career in which he had over 10 *****+* matches in that period, Chris Benoit in 2004-2005ish, and of course I'm going to come out and say CM Punk's recent run has been nothing short of amazing and fantastic in today's WWE. We'll see if he can get back to his amazing ways come next week against Cena + Mania, but being in two matches with THE ROID doesn't exactly help one's match catalog.

Nothing touches the GOAT though :flair :flair2 :flair3 .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd throw in a Michaels year while he was with the Rockers before I would claim his '97, personally. All I take away from HBK in '97 was Hell in a Cell & COKE.

Think it's known how I'm prone to praising his work with Rockers over his singles stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought Undertaker had a better overall year in 97 to HBK. Vader x2 on PPV, Final Four match, Main event of WM where he wins the title, SS and ONO with Bret, HBK x2, and the awesome Kane feud building up from the night after WM all the way to HIAC where Kane finally debuted, then continued to WM before it started to go down the shitter. Plus Undertaker cut a ton of promos as well, he was far less limited during this time.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Greatest prime ever ? Flair in 1989 and nobody else really even comes close to coming close.
> 
> When we're talking about strictly WWE, Shawn's 96/97 ON COKE shit was awesome as fuck and is definitely the tops to me alongside Bret's return in 96 to his departure in 97, Stone Cold's fantastic run in 2001 that was GOD LIKE, Hunter's always talked about run in 2000/2001 up until his first quad tear, BROCK DA GAWD's entire two year + two match career in which he had over 10 *****+* matches in that period, Chris Benoit in 2004-2005ish, and of course I'm going to come out and say CM Punk's recent run has been nothing short of amazing and fantastic in today's WWE. We'll see if he can get back to his amazing ways come next week against Cena + Mania, but being in two matches with THE ROID doesn't exactly help one's match catalog.
> 
> Nothing touches the GOAT though :flair :flair2 :flair3 .


This, pretty much. To me, Flair's '89 trumps everyone. But after that, in terms of a year, I'd go HBK in 97. Whether it be matches, promos, he was just on another different level that year from anyone else. He probably (who are we kidding, he would have) had a hell of a '98 as well if not for the back injury. Probably not as great as his '97, but still pretty darn good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> I thought Undertaker had a better overall year in 97 to HBK. Vader x2 on PPV, Final Four match, Main event of WM where he wins the title, SS and ONO with Bret, HBK x2, and the awesome Kane feud building up from the night after WM all the way to HIAC where Kane finally debuted, then continued to WM before it started to go down the shitter. Plus Undertaker cut a ton of promos as well, he was far less limited during this time.


(Y)

If pure entertainment means something here then Undertaker's near year from late '98 - late '99 is probably going to be number one in my books.

Nothing will trump Ministry Deadman.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Call me CRAZY, but am I the only one who thought that Austin had a better 1997 than HBK? Austin was just unstoppable from January until August, then even when he was out injured he was still the most over guy in the company.


I'll agree with you on that one, most definitely.

Royal Rumble win
Feud with Bret Hart and the Hart Foundation
***** Wrestlemania 13 match
Slow build as a true main eventer, not just throwing the title on him when they easily could have.
Canadian Stampede Main Event.
Intercontinental title win.
Planting the seeds for one of the greatest feuds of all time between him and Rock.

It was a great year for him, back when the WWE knew how to build superstars up and not just throw them into the main event. I mean after the Rumble, the growing popularity and the ***** match between him and Bret at Mania, they could have quite easily gave him the belt but they slowly built him up, gave him the Intercontinental belt when it meant something and then 1998 it blew up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I prefer his BIG EVIL heel run from late 01-mid 02 as far as pure Undertaker character goes. Adore that run. Watching him beat Hogan for the title live was awesome. Marked the fuck out in my living room at nearly 4am .


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Undertaker during his Ministry days was my favourite version, but he sucked in the ring. That groin injury didn't exactly help matters.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> I prefer his BIG EVIL heel run from late 01-mid 02 as far as pure Undertaker character goes. Adore that run. Watching him beat Hogan for the title live was awesome. Marked the fuck out in my living room at nearly 4am .


Undertaker had a pretty good 2002.

- The ROCK at NWO
- Naitch at WM
- Austin at BL (Cal's favorite match )
- Hogan at JD
- HHH at KOTR
- Lesnar at UNF and NM

All good to great matches.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Clique said:


> Those plus Bret Hart in 94/95 and Nov. 96 - Nov. 97. Bret was consistent throughout his 13/14 year run in WWF.


Good call on Bret. I think in terms of strictly WWF/E, HBK 96/97 and Bret 94/95 were the two best runs in company history in terms of match quality. Promo quality and entertainment level as well, in HBK's '97 run.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's all about RESPECT. The only drawback to that time was the match vs Trips at KOTR '02. 

A mild blemish. He was given the WWE Championship again. That's all that matters. :mark:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Undertaker was such an awesome heel in 2002. I still remember when he beat up David Flair in the shower and JR would mimick The Undertaker every time he'd say 'time to go to skew-ull!' in that deeply-unimpressed fashion of his.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Undertaker had a pretty good 2002.
> 
> - The ROCK at NWO
> - Naitch at WM
> ...


The Austin match almost put me to sleep and the Trips match is awful. The Jeff Hardy Ladder Match and the Vengeance triple threat are great matches. The Kurt Angle match on the 4th of July episode of Smackdown was a good TV main event as was the Taker/Benoit/Angle triple threat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plus he had some good-great TV matches as well. RVD, Hardy Ladder (awesome), Angle on SD etc.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Undertaker during his Ministry days was my favourite version, but he sucked in the ring. That groin injury didn't exactly help matters.


Once again agreeing with you.

When it comes to most entertaining, most dark, The Undertaker was on a different level to all his other characters during '99. But yeah, his ring work was certainly not at it's best and he was involved in one of, if not the worst Wrestlemania and Hell in a Cell match you're ever likely to see.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Choke2Death* almost literally made me Choke2Death on a fucking Oreo when he had the Triple HAITCH match on his list of great Undertaker matches from 2002. In case you don't know, it's an inside joke that he loves torturing himself with these shitty matches :lol .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> The Austin match almost put me to sleep and the Trips match is awful. The Jeff Hardy Ladder Match and the Vengeance triple threat are great matches. The Kurt Angle match on the 4th of July episode of Smackdown was a good TV main event as was the Taker/Benoit/Angle triple threat.


I liked the Austin match (Cal has at least someone to agree with in that regard now :lol) and the Trips match is just a running joke for myself. I love to call it a good match just because it was comical to watch.

And how the hell did I forget the Vengeance triple threat? Obviously the TV matches are there. Really love the Benoit/Angle/Taker triple threat.

(bout to watch HBK vs Taker at RR 98 now)



KingOfKings said:


> *Choke2Death* almost literally made me Choke2Death on a fucking Oreo when he had the Triple HAITCH match on his list of great Undertaker matches from 2002. In case you don't know, it's an inside joke that he loves torturing himself with these shitty matches :lol .


:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I liked the Austin match (Cal has at least someone to agree with in that regard now :lol) and the Trips match is just a running joke for myself. I love to call it a good match just because it was comical to watch.
> 
> And how the hell did I forget the Vengeance triple threat? Obviously the TV matches are there. Really love the Benoit/Angle/Taker triple threat.
> 
> (bout to watch HBK vs Taker at RR 98 now)


Don't forget to cringe at HBK being thrown over the top rope and onto the edge of the casket.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Part of me is glad I've never seen Undertaker vs Austin from Backlash 2002. Don't know why, only it is the one WWE match I can say I've actually never seen from the more modern eras.. After reading the length I could see it being boring. Idk. I guess since their past history isn't as sparkling I'm a bit unsure walking into it. Possibly a dumb retort by myself here. A vibe I have, if you will.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Austin/Taker Summerslam '98 was there best work together. I could watch that match any time and still get entertained by it. But I don't think I've liked any of there others, which is strange. I didn't like the "end of an era" match between the two the following year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd put their SS 98 match as one of their absolute worst. JD 01 is easily their best.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What about their Buried Alive match? lol'd @ some fan throwing their drink at Undertaker towards the end then him giving that killer look in the fan's direction.



Cookie Monster said:


> Don't forget to cringe at HBK being thrown over the top rope and onto the edge of the casket.


Is it the one a couple of minutes into it? Just went past that and if that's the one, it wasn't that bad. Michaels landed on his feet.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I'd put their SS 98 match as one of their absolute worst. JD 01 is easily their best.


*This.*

LOL @ the Swagger hate from pretty much everywhere when he's proven himself to be a pretty great worker + his new persona and character W/ ZEB have been probably the most interesting thing in the WWE right now due to Rematch Mania sucking the life out of me.

*WE THE PEOPLE :mark: :mark: :mark: :swagger*


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Is it the one a couple of minutes into it? Just went past that and if that's the one, it wasn't that bad. Michaels landed on his feet.


Where his back whacks against the edge of the casket as he lands. Shit makes me cringe and he never looks comfortable after that. Well you're not going to with the damage that was done. Still makes me laugh though at how aggressive Austin was with him.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Big Z said:


> I'd put their SS 98 match as one of their absolute worst. *JD 01 is easily their best.*


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> LOL @ the Swagger hate from pretty much everywhere when he's proven himself to be a pretty great worker + his new persona and character W/ ZEB have been probably the most interesting thing in the WWE right now due to Rematch Mania sucking the life out of me.
> 
> *WE THE PEOPLE :mark: :mark: :mark: :swagger*


The duo are one of the highlights of Raw nowadays I say. Amazing what the correct booking and an actual CHARACTER can get you, eh Vince?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> *This.*
> 
> LOL @ the Swagger hate from pretty much everywhere when he's proven himself to be a pretty great worker + his new person and character W/ ZEB have been probably the most interesting thing in the WWE right now due to Rematch Mania sucking the life out of me.
> 
> *WE THE PEOPLE :mark: :mark: :mark: :swagger*


The hate on Swagger is the most unusual, deep seeded force out there. Knocks the stuff on John-boy right off. Apparently he looks "retarded" all the time and umm...yeah. I'm almost ashamed to be a wrestling fan nowadays b/c others. Not really, but I dislike so many other fans it's getting tiresome.

I think this is why I choose to only watch current Japan/Chikara & the rest is late 80's & early 90's work. It clears my mind at the state of the biz & fans alike right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Where his back whacks against the edge of the casket as he lands. Shit makes me cringe and he never looks comfortable after that. Well you're not going to with the damage that was done. Still makes me laugh though at how aggressive Austin was with him.


Just rewatched it. It doesn't look all that impactful but it definitely was. Still seen much worse bumps so this one didn't come across _that_ bad despite the fact that it shortened his career by 4 years.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The Swagger hate seems to stem from the fact that a few months ago he wasn't anything like this and people who may have disliked him in the past don't want to think that someone can improve. I wasn't Swaggers biggest fan but you know what? I sat and watched what this new gimmick could have in store, a week later and we have Dutch Mantell spitting shit on the mic that gets me hooked.

No doubt in a few weeks/months time if Mantell is still alongside Swagger he will be getting the IWC dick, it's a given. I do however think they have pushed him a little too fast, but hey we come back to what I was saying earlier at how the WWE don't really know how to slow build any more.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HE HAS A LISP SO HE CAN'T BE A MAIN EVENTER.

What's weird is that I NEVER noticed he had a lisp until it was pointed out to me by about 8564543 morons who just hate on Swagger because they expected somebody else. People are clamoring for new stars to be made but bitch about it when it's not THEIR GUY. If they're going to make a star then why not go out and make the guy who was already a world champion a star, thus making a star and covering up your bad booking at the same time ?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*WWE Elimination Chamber 2013 Review*

*Alberto Del Rio vs. Big Show (World Heavyweight Championship)
*I’m shocked that this match didn’t receive some sort of a gimmick, especially since it was the big blow-off to their feud and they had two Last Man Standing matches before this match. The story of the match was that Alberto Del Rio was, despite his best efforts, unable to put Big Show away, either by pin fall or submission. Big Show had escaped from the arm bar twice and kicked out of every move Del Rio had to offer. There were some nice spots in this match as well, such as Del Rio’s hurricanrana (sp?) onto Big Show and his suicide dive to the outside of the ring, which he hit perfectly. Del Rio’s botch towards the end of the match hurt the match, sadly. It made both men look like complete GEEKS; with Del Rio looking geeky because he botched the move and Big Show looked geeky because he was completely oblivious to Del Rio’s attempted move behind him and just kept yelling at Ricardo. Thankfully, Del Rio improvised and added a few moves to the finish so we weren’t left with the botched enziguri being the final real move of the match before the arm bar. Outside of that botch, this match was just fine.
*Rating: **3/4
*
*Antonio Cesaro vs. Miz (United States Championship)
*The left shoulder of Miz was wrapped up going into the match and because of that, it was a target for Cesaro. Miz went on the attack of Cesaro early, but Cesaro got on the advantage and did some great work on Miz’s shoulder, including breaking out the shoulder breaker, which is a move I haven’t seen in a while. Miz would even the playing field by injuring one of Cesaro’s legs by shoving him knee first into the steel steps on the outside of the ring. Miz would then proceed to work on the injured leg of Cesaro and appeared to be setting up for the Figure 4 Leg Lock but Cesaro would take the legs out from under Miz, which caused Miz’s knee to low blow Cesaro. After some lobbying by Cesaro, the referee decided to disqualify Miz because of the accidental low blow. I might me in the minority on this, but I highly enjoyed this match. This might have been one of Miz’s best non-gimmick singles matches when you factor in the great limb work by both men and the creative finish. If they have another match like this, I’m looking forward to their blow-off match.
*Rating: ***
*
*Jack Swagger vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane vs. Mark Henry (Smackdown Elimination Chamber Match)
*I get a kick out of Jack Swagger’s new gimmick and Zeb Coulter is just awesome. It might have a short shelf life unless he and Zeb focus on more “issues” so to speak outside of immigration. It will probably get some mainstream attention since they brought a Tea Party flag with them on Raw and their gimmick is basically them playing the stereotypical Tea Party member. The gimmick will probably rustle the jimmies of a few Tea Party members since the gimmick isn’t a good representation of the actual Tea Party but I highly enjoy it. 

Anyway, Chris Jericho and Daniel Bryan kicked off the match and did some basic action before Jack Swagger came in. The match was mostly basic stuff outside of a few entertaining spots, such as Kane and Daniel Bryan’s comical showdown, which would eventually lead to the tag team champions going at it for a couple of minutes. The match picked up once MARK HENRY came in and started splitting wigs. Henry was a complete beast in this match; so much so that once he was eliminated, the crowd gave him a standing ovation. It’s a damn shame that they didn’t give Henry the win in this match since Del Rio vs. HENRY at Wrestlemania would have been fantastic. 

The final minutes to this match were pretty great, with Jericho, Orton, and Swagger doing everything they could to eliminate each other and win the match. In the end, the REAL AMERICAN stood tall after rolling up Orton for the pin, just seconds after Orton eliminated Jericho with the RKO. What really brought this match down was the first ten minutes or so, which was mostly just basic action and the match really took off once Henry made his entrance. With that said, this was still a very entertaining match that went nearly thirty minutes. Was this one of the best Elimination Chamber matches of all time? No. Was this match entertaining and worth a watch? It absolutely is.
*Rating: ***1/2
*
*The SHIELD vs. John Cena, Sheamus, and Ryback
*These two teams wasted no time in getting down to business, as they brawled on the outside of the ring as soon as SHIELD entered the ringside area. Cena and Friends proved to be too much to handle, as they easily won the first skirmish of the match, which culminated in the ring when Cena, Sheamus, and Ryback delivered three suplexes to all three members of the SHIELD. 

A couple of minutes later, John Cena would play the face in peril, falling victim to the SHIELD and despite his best efforts, every comeback Cena attempted was thwarted every time. Some might not have enjoyed such a long FIP segment, but I enjoyed it. Each member of the SHIELD got in a good amount of offense in on John Cena and the counters to Cena’s comebacks were all well done. Cena would eventually dump Dean Ambrose to the outside of the ring, which would allow him to finally make the hot tag to Ryback, who had not entered the match before the tag. Ryback came in and cleaned house and soon afterwards the match broke down. Sheamus was taken out of the match after Roman Reigns speared him through the barricade, which almost killed Lillian Garcia. Ryback was attempting to deliver Shell Shock onto Seth Rollins, but Reigns came back into the ring and speared Ryback, which caused Rollins to fall on top of Ryback for the pin. This match was just fantastic. In between the opening entertaining brawl, Cena’s entertaining FIP segment, and the closing moments, this is my MOTY so far. 
*Rating: ****
*
*Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston
*I have nothing really to say about this match outside of the fact that it had a few cool spots. This was a fine sub-five minute match that served as a buffer so the crowd could cool down after two very good matches.
*Rating: *3/4
*
*Kaitlyn vs. Tamina Snuka (Divas Championship)
*I’m awarding ¼* for Kaitlyn taking a hard bump into the ring post and then proceeding to fall outside of the ring. 
*Rating: ¼*
*
*The Rock vs. CM Punk (WWE Championship)
*CM Punk started out out-wrestling Dwayne and arrogantly playing to the crowd. Punk would knockdown Dwayne with a shoulder block and would jog around the ring afterwards as Paul Heyman yelled “Two points for you…It’s 2 to nothing!” Dwayne would come back with a couple of arm-drags of his own, which sent Punk to the outside of the ring to catch his breath. When he went back into the ring, he and Dwayne had a faceoff in the middle of the ring, where he proceeded to slap Dwayne. This pissed Dwayne off and he started hammering Punk in the corner with punches. The referee made Dwayne back off, but Punk sat in the corner and egged Dwayne on in an attempt to get him disqualified and in turn, lose the title. Some great psychology on display right there by Punk. We’re about four minutes into the match now and it’s so far, so good!

Punk would get up and they would have another stare down in the center of the ring and this time, Punk would spit in the face of Dwayne. Dwayne would knock Punk down and they started to brawl on the outside of the ring but luckily for Dwayne, he wasn’t disqualified. Punk would soon afterwards get on the advantage and his control segment didn’t set the world on fire at all. The match finally picked up when Dwayne made his comeback and the crowd came alive. I thoroughly enjoyed the final six or so minutes to this match, which consisted of Punk kicking out of both the Rock bottom and the People’s Elbow and Punk delivering his own version of the Rock bottom to Dwayne onto the Spanish announce table (which didn’t break). 

Referee Mike Choida was knocked out when Dwayne ran into him. Dwayne would walk right into a GTS but no referee was present when Punk went for the pin. A referee would finally run down to ringside, but it was to check on his concerned colleague and not to take Choida’s place. The second referee would finally enter the ring, but it was after Dwayne hit the People’s Elbow onto Punk and the second referee counted the pin, only for Punk to kick out at two. This referee would be taken out as well after Punk rolled onto his ankle, which apparently caused it to sprain. The finish came when Punk tried to hit Dwayne with the WWE Championship, but Dwayne would move and Punk would hit Heyman instead. Dwayne would proceed to hit Punk with the second Rock bottom and Mike Choida crawled into the ring to count the three.

I enjoyed this MUCH more than their previous encounter at the Royal Rumble the month before. I felt that the vast majority of Punk/Rock I was boring, while the only real boring part of this match was Punk’s control segment. This match was also devoid of any real screwy finish (such as the restart of their match at the Royal Rumble) unless you count the ref bump. This was probably Dwayne’s best match since his match against Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 19 in 2003. 
*Rating: ***1/2
*
*Overall Thoughts*: This ended up being a pretty damn good show with 4 matches being *** or more and one match (Del Rio/Show) that was on the cusp of reaching that plateau. The real surprises on this show, at least match quality wise, was Cesaro/Miz being MUCH better than I expected and Punk/Dwayne II being the rare case of the sequel being better than the original. The only real lowlights were the two filler matches but they were both short and really didn’t harm anything or anybody. I highly recommend this show.​
*Tl;dr review*
Del Rio/Show- **3/4
Cesaro/Miz- ***
Elimination Chamber- ***1/2
SHIELD/Cena and Friends- ****
Ziggler/Kingston- *3/4
Kaitlyn/Tamina- 1/4*
DWAYNE/Punk II- ***1/2
*Overall Verdict*- p. good


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Just rewatched it. It doesn't look all that impactful but it definitely was. Still seen much worse bumps so this one didn't come across _that_ bad despite the fact that it shortened his career by 4 years.


Yeah, no doubt. If I hadn't known that was what had caused Shawns injury then I wouldn't even have noticed it. It's just whenever I watch the match now it sticks out to me like a sore thumb. It's the same whenever I watch the WM14 main event and see how in pain he is through out it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Del Rio - Swagger is literally the only feud I care about right now until Punk/BROCK are actually doing something, and it it's just BROCK/GAME then I won't really care much about that build up either. Those immigration promos are fucking AWESOME and since I can't stand Del Rio I'm all on Team Swagger to win the WHC and send the internet into a fucking frenzy.

Fuck Retardo too. His face schtick sucks just like that dull mother fucker Del Rio.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I want Ricardo's blood every week. He's unbearable as a face.

Didn't post the stars yet, so I'll do so right now. Need to pump a review out by tomorrow as it is.


*Elimination Chamber 2013*

Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio ~ **3/4

Antonio Cesaro vs Mike Mizanin ~ ** _(this could possibly go up)_

Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger vs Randy Orton ~ **3/4

John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield ~ ****

Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston ~ 1/4*

Kaitlyn vs Tamina Snuka ~ 1/4*

CM Punk vs The Rock ~ *​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AHHH I see you despised Punk-Rock even more than I did. I'm pretty sure by this point that I'm deducting ratings from these matches due to my anger that Punk is wrestling such a horrible opponent and that I expect better matches from him.

BUT IT'S NOT HIS FAULT DAMN IT unk2 .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Terrible match. Rock can't work. It's getting to the point of being some of the worst string of matches I've seen. Punk tries so hard to carry him, but damn. He's the biggest load of dead weight out there.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Goddamn I miss Shawn Michaels. 

ONE MORE MATCH PLZ


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just the fact that so many people are blind to how horrible The Roid is at this point makes me want to stop watching wrestling at times honestly.

That's why I honestly think that if Punk-Taker happens, Punk's gonna go into GOD MODE and put on the performance of a lifetime with perhaps the WWE's GOAT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This thread is heaven for ROCK haters but thankfully, only the ones with actual intelligence are here who just happen to be mad about Phil finally getting what he deserves. :rock4

Just finished watching HBK/Taker casket match. ★★★★. Pretty good match and so far, everyone of theirs that I've seen has been. Only Ground Zero left. And HBK deserves some props for still taking that turnbuckle flip, the back body drop and other moves that impact the back after the casket bump.

And I would be on Team Alberto normally for the WHC match but since it's WM season, I find myself in Team Zero Fucks Given.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Punk would be a good match I'm sure. If it were to happen of course. Who knows at this point. I'm not going to guess at all.

My gripe isn't that Punk lost. I'm mad about Rock being a very poor wrestler. Which is a common gripe from me at all times. I'll never blind mark or hate for anything. That's what separates me from the regular jags that flood this place.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Goddamn I miss Shawn Michaels.
> 
> ONE MORE MATCH PLZ


Same here. But I'm fine with him not wrestling one more match. GOATs shouldn't be involved in todays' crapola.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Same here. If Punk had to drop the belt to somebody who can actually string together a coherent match I wouldn't have been upset granted he still reached 400 days. If it had to be the other way around with Cena beating Punk at the Rumble and The Roid winning the Rumble I wouldn't have cared in the slightest, as that's what should have happened. 

Under NO circumstances should Rock be WWE Champion. He can be the challenger and main event Wrestlemania and get a whole bunch of buys but in no way shape or form should he be WWE Champion. The only reason he won that belt was so McMahon could say a movie star was his champion, trying to gain the mainstream's acceptance.

HBK left about two years too early. He could have had a match against The Roid at Wrestlemania XXVIII before he REALLY bulked up for Hercules and became un-workable. Then he could have worked with BROCK and retired. FUCK. I WANT HBK VS BROCK DAMN IT.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

God do i wish this forum would get rid of the fanboys. Cant have a discussion without someone's feeling getting hurt cause you dared to say anything bad about the person they worship. Even this thread isn't immune to fanboy wars.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought he only got the championship so the loophole for Cena vs Rock II would be their excuse at "Once in a Lifetime" being a farce.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm still annoyed at the whole "Streak vs. Career" stipulation. It didn't need it. Don't get me wrong, the build up to it all was great, from Rumble to Wrestlemania it all worked perfectly but I mean why have Taker end Michaels' career and not someone a year or two down the line like Daniel Bryan? 

Imagine the rub that would do to someone as over as Bryan is now. It writes itself too with the whole teacher vs. pupil thing. I have no doubt they would have put on a 5 star clinic too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

But Shawn was ready for it to happen so it's alright and it looks like an actual stipulation (or marking ploy) that actually sticks in wrestling. Years from now that may be considered heavily in the importance of the match let alone the classic quality. I also think retirement matches for people like Shawn Michaels should be with one of their greatest opponents ever telling a magnificent story. It doesn't have to be veteran losing to new guy all of the time.



bme said:


> God do i wish this forum would get rid of the fanboys. Cant have a discussion without someone's feeling getting hurt cause you dared to say anything bad about the person they worship. Even this thread isn't immune to fanboy wars.


People have talked so much shit about my favorite wrestlers too but I just keep it moving knowing I like what I like and they will do the same. Eventually, everyone has haters that will come out of the woodwork. But I agree the fan wars are very annoying especially with the obsessive lovers/haters of particular wrestlers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Roid could have just won the Rumble. He would have had to do literally NOTHING and I wouldn't have to see him work an actual match until he embarrassed himself at Wrestlemania XXIX. Of course that couldn't be done because it would be too predictable RIGHT ? Because WWE REALLY SWERVED US THIS YEAR :lol.

Punk and Cena never had a blowoff and if this is supposed to be the "year of Cena" they should have had it @ Royal Rumble and eventually Extreme Rules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock could have just lost at Royal Rumble & Cena vs Punk culminating in their final battle at WrestleMania would have been the more ideal direction.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Reading this thread, I think a lot of people are going to be pissed when Undertaker doesn't show up for Mania this year.

I'd love to see a Cena/Punk Iron Man Match by the way! a real blow off match. WWE can't seem to keep them away from each other but if they had saved it for a WrestleMania it would be cool.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHAT ?!?! AND MISS OUT ON ROCK VS CENA II ?!?!

unk2


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Rock could have just lost at Royal Rumble & Cena vs Punk culminating in their final battle at WrestleMania would have been the more ideal direction.


That is EXACTLY what it should have been. It is what the majority of us all wanted yet the WWE go in a completely different and mindless of direction of booking Rock vs. Cena II instead. This damn company.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Rock could have just lost at Royal Rumble & Cena vs Punk culminating in their final battle at WrestleMania would have been the more ideal direction.


Then we could have had Rock/Brock this year, but we will hopefully get it for WrestleMania XXX.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One simple post and it seems the consensus is much more favorable to it than what we're actually getting irl. That's a tad frustrating.

I wouldn't care for Brock vs Rock too much, but I'm certain Brock's intangibles might have gave a spark to a match vs Rock. I'm not naive in knowing how much of a money match it would be too. Two men who are well known outside of WWE in other markets. It would have appeal to the non-diehards and even non-casuals alike.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Even if The Undertaker doesn't show up for Wrestlemania (he will, trust me), I'm confident in how much WWE values Punk that they won't give him a shit match for Mania. Punk-Taker would be the second biggest match on the card (THE STREAK ALWAYS IS) and even if Taker never showed up it would be at LEAST the third biggest match on the card, which is no different than last year.

Every "big" face in the company is tied up in SOMETHING at the moment whether it be Sheamus, Jericho, Ryback, Cena, Rock, etc. It's either Punk-Taker or the triple threat.

EDIT : BROCK-ROCK would work because Brock's new style seems to be slow and methodical. He would just destroy Rock the entire match with his awesome heel control segments and all Rock would have to muster up is a babyface comeback. BROCK is the only person on this planet that I could see getting an awesome match out of Rock due to this.

I think Cena will do a little better then Punk, but it looked like Rock's conditioning was FAR superior last year to this year given that he had to roid up.... I mean bulk up for his role in Hercules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Need to get off all of this bland current era stuff. So, I totally found some Clash of the Champions in full to watch on youtube. Began the 20th Anniversary special for WCW on TBS. Included Bruno Sammartino showing up and bashing WWF _(haha)_ & Andre The Giant's final TV appearance. Some fun gems already. Only via the blabbering hype in the start. Opening match is Steamboat vs Austin. If this doesn't give me a bit of entertainment, I will be flabbergasted. 

Paul E. Dangerously was with Austin of course. Dangerous Alliance people. Is there anything better than 1992? I'm not sure there is. Unless I were to go outside of America.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes, please. I'm starting to think my disdain for The Roid has driven me to madness + Cole vs Lawler is up next. YAY.

Dangerous Alliance was the best thing going in 1992. I'm not even sure what I love more, Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper, Randy Savage vs Ric Flair, or WAR GAMES. I've heard alt of people claim that it's the greatest match in WCW history (it's not) , so obviously unless it's an HBK-Bret situation then it deserves the praise.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Paul E. Dangerously was with Austin of course. Dangerous Alliance people. *Is there anything better than 1992?* I'm not sure there is. Unless I were to go outside of America.


Steamboat, Rude, Anderson, Austin, Eaton, Dustin, Vader, Sting, etc. tearing shit up down south in WCW? Doesn't get any better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Steamboat, Rude, Anderson, Austin, Eaton, Dustin, Vader, Sting, etc. tearing shit up down south in WCW? Doesn't get any better.


:mark:

War Games '92 was brilliance though. I could see why some place that at number one. I know the only reason I wouldn't is thanks to my love for the Flair vs Steamboat series + some stellar tags I'd personally place above it. It's plenty deserving of getting the nod by some fans out there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

VADER VS STING. STARRCADE. :mark: :mark:

STEAMBOAT VS RUDE. BEACH BLAST. :mark: :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Favorite DUBYA SEE DUBYA tag match? Plenty to choose from, but..

Southern Boys vs Midnight Express GAB '90 

Love that shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Favorite WCW Tag ? Ric Flair/Sting vs The Great Muta/Terry Funk @ COTC 1989 :mark: .

GOATS GONNA GOAT :flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> VADER VS STING. STARRCADE. :mark: :mark:
> 
> STEAMBOAT VS RUDE. BEACH BLAST. :mark: :mark:


:mark:



ShowStopper '97 said:


> Favorite DUBYA SEE DUBYA tag match? Plenty to choose from, but..
> 
> Southern Boys vs Midnight Express GAB '90
> 
> Love that shit.


The best ever.

Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton vs Greg Valentine & Dick Slater from this Clash _(9/2/92)_ was stellar. I know the topic of who threw some excellent punches was brought up in a rants thread, but I'll bring it here ever so slightly. Bobby Eaton gave Dick Slater one of the STIFFEST punches I've ever witnessed. It popped louder than a gun. Bobby Eaton is the greatest.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Favourite WCW tag is probably Steiners v Gordy & Wlliams from Clash 19. Or Pillman/Windham v Steamboat/Douglas from Starrcade. Or Steamboat/Rhodes v Anderson/Zbyszko from Clash Whatever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starrcade '92 tag is right on the cusp of being my number one pick. Midnight vs Southern Boys always edges it out by a hair.

There always is that unbelievable Midnight Express vs Fantastics 4/26/88 match out there too. It's honestly perfect. That was before the company was fully "WCW" at the time though. So, if it doesn't count for this list then you know...whatever I guess.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Goddamn I miss Shawn Michaels.


This times a million.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Greg don't gloss over the 90's WCW discussion you ASS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Starrcade '92 tag is right on the cusp of being my number one pick. Midnight vs Southern Boys always edges it out by a hair.
> 
> There always is that unbelievable Midnight Express vs Fantastics 4/26/88 match out there too. It's honestly perfect. That was before the company was fully "WCW" at the time though. So, if it doesn't count for this list then you know...whatever I guess.


I wouldn't REALLY count that as WCW but this ain't no 'Turner's WCW thread" so we can talk the SHIT out of it. "Perfect" probably does it justice, and it may seriously be the best tag team match I've seen from the US. Gun to head, at this very moment, I'd call it #2 behind the Final Conflict. I need to watch both again.

Goodhelmet's releasing a Midnight Express set soon, btw. Imagine that shit. Should be immense. No, WILL be immense. I'm 100% sure of it and I am never 100% sure of anything. But, it's possibly 20+ discs of Bobby Eaton. So yeah 160% sure of it being immense.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I wouldn't REALLY count that as WCW but this ain't no 'Turner's WCW thread" so we can talk the SHIT out of it. "Perfect" probably does it justice, and it may seriously be the best tag team match I've seen from the US. Gun to head, at this very moment, I'd call it #2 behind the Final Conflict. I need to watch both again.
> 
> Goodhelmet's releasing a Midnight Express set soon, btw. Imagine that shit. Should be immense. No, WILL be immense. I'm 100% sure of it and I am never 100% sure of anything. But, it's possibly 20+ discs of Bobby Eaton. So yeah 160% sure of it being immense.


Neither would I, but damn. I had to give it a plug. And damn x2 as I've been meaning to get on the Final Conflict tag too.

Sweet jesus. I think Seabs getting my first wrestling comp order _(I've been saying I will buy his Liger set for about 2 years now, lmao)_ was knocked off the page. All of that Midnight Express. I'm hard. I went there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

90s WCW? MORTIS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forget about WRATH.

You know what tag team I dig? Stars & Stripes.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Their midcard/jobbers were awesome. Disco Inferno, Alex Wright, GLACIER, Kanyon, etc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> All of that Midnight Express. I'm hard. I went there.


I was hard when the mailman came to deliver a comp a few years ago. Turns out it was a birthday card from my relatives. What a pile of suck.

Thoughts on Steiner v Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc? INSANE piles of awesome. One of the Nastys gets absolutely destroyed at the end with the Frankensteiner. Neck gets yanked to shit and he lands practically on top of his head.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Public Enemy, Mikey Whipwreck, Hak, all of the cruiserweights, El Dandy.

Why did Paul Roma get a push in WCW and none of those guys did? Paul Roma was the worst.

@Moops - Oh that match is all kinds of radical. Watched it not long ago. Nasty's are underrated in quite a few affairs, imo.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nastys are way better than a lot of people think, and have a decent amount of stuff you point you. Shit, I haven't even LOOKED for more good Nasty Boys and I can think of stuff. That'd be something fun.

Roma is a shithead. Shithead Roma.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2013/1/19/3894858/paul-roma-cm-punk-is-honky-tonk-man

Paul Roma is a piece of trash who trashed the Four Horsemen on their own DVD. If you click the link above you'll probably realize that *Choke2Death* is his biggest fan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Nastys are way better than a lot of people think, and have a decent amount of stuff you point you. Shit, I haven't even LOOKED for more good Nasty Boys and I can think of stuff. That'd be something fun.
> 
> Roma is a shithead. Shithead Roma.


I own a Nastys vs Money Inc match from ahhhhh I think late '92? Shoot, I'm not sure. Anyways it's a pretty strong match. Not even a brawl in the slightest either. Don't know where the myth of them only being crappy began. Meltzer? Nastys work in latter WCW was no different than most. I don't think there is a single Harlem Heat match that was "good". Nastys have plenty more.

Roma is an idiot. That link KOK posted is outlandish. What is with this dude's fetish on bodies? He kept bringing that up on the Horseman DVD. _"Arn Anderson the Pillsbury dough-boy"_. Yeah, that guy could take a shit and it would have more talent than you, Paul Roma. Learn how to do a backslide, then talk some trash.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

there is nothing good about disco inferno. alex wright? yes. kanyon? great.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Gave a watch to No Mercy 07&08.

No Mercy 2007:

HHH/Orton I- **1/2
hardy&Kendrick&London/Cade/Murdoch/Kennedy- **
BDV-Punk- DUD
HHH/Umaga- **3/4
Mysterio/Finlay - ***
Candice/Beth-**
Batista/Khali- *3/4
HHH/Orton II- ***1/2

Thoughts: Solid show, not as good as the 06 one but still acceptabale. Wasn't really into the WWE Title series, but the main-event was pretty good.

No Mercy 2008:

Henry/Hardy- ***3/4
Candice/Beth- *
Mysterio/Kane- **1/4
JBL/Batista- **
Big Show/Taker- ***
HHH/Hardy- ****
HBK/Jericho- ****1/2

thoughts: Great show here we had 4 great matches, and the main-event was the best HBK/Jericho match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> *This.*
> 
> LOL @ the Swagger hate from pretty much everywhere when he's proven himself to be a pretty great worker + his new persona and character W/ ZEB have been probably the most interesting thing in the WWE right now due to Rematch Mania sucking the life out of me.
> 
> *WE THE PEOPLE :mark: :mark: :mark: :swagger*


The Swagger hate is perfectly justified. He's terrible on the mic, the worst for a guy in his position. He's got a real goofy look and stupid facial expressions that make it hard to take the guy seriously. He's more interesting now *only* because of his new manager Zeb with the new gimmick. Notice how whenever Zeb talks it's interesting, it engages the crowd, he really gets people to boo him, Zeb's the perfect guy for the gimmick because he looks and talks the part, but Swagger ruins it whenever he talks. Zeb should talk 100% time, and Swagger 0%, and then he'll be more tolerable to me but I'll still have to put up with his goofy, cringeworthy self but at least I won't have to put up with him talking. And yes Swagger's good in the ring, but he needs much more than that to be a star, that's why he failed so hard in 2010 as World Champion, but with Zeb now covering up is great weaknesses (talking, taking him seriously) he can manage better.

Like most people on this forum, I dig the new character, I like Zeb, hell his new theme is an improvement, but I can't stand Swagger.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I hope the build to the Lesnar/HHH is a little different this time around, i get that heels sometimes have to be 'cowardly heel', but come on this is BROCK LESNAR, instead of running away from HHH when he broke HBK's arm he should have F5'd Haitch, F5'd Steph, F5'd HBK for good measure, stood in the middle of the ring and shouted 'Don't fuck with me' , its BROCK FFS, still, probably will be the same this around tbh.

Although if we get Punk/Lesnar instead, ALLLLLLLL the better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh. Someone doesn't need mic skills to be a star. Another WWE philosophy I'll never buy into. If you got the goods in other outlets you'll be fine. And yes, case and point is always going to be Bret Hart or Chris Benoit. Is Jack Swagger on their level? Sure, why not. He's a really good wrestler. Can't talk a lick. Seems about fair company. Granted Benoit is the best of the bunch. Only he lacked a "pop" if you know what I mean.

This doesn't go into "successes" by the way. Let me throw that out there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If Swagger can get on a roll in the ring like 08/09 then he could really be great with Zeb doing his talking too. But its not as easy when he has a bunch of different talent to work with. No Christian (though could happen, he's due back any time, right?), no Finlay, no Hardy etc. Excepted more from the Danielson match though. If that happened in ECW 09 it would have been a strong contender for MOTY you gotta believe.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Everyone has to talk in modern day WWE. I don't get why they have this ideology.

People like Swagger , Ryback etc don't need to speak, yet they continue to let them.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

For the love of god Christian needs to come back now. Still wanting Christian/Cesaro again. Also, if Jericho was going to stay long time I'd have loved to see them bring back Jericho/Christian as a team for a bit.

And speaking of WCW midcard/jobbers, how about 3 COUNT?!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Meh. Someone doesn't need mic skills to be a star. Another WWE philosophy I'll never buy into. If you got the goods in other outlets you'll be fine. And yes, case and point is always going to be Bret Hart or Chris Benoit. *Is Jack Swagger on their level? Sure, why not.* He's a really good wrestler. Can't talk a lick. Seems about fair company. Granted Benoit is the best of the bunch. Only he lacked a "pop" if you know what I mean.
> 
> This doesn't go into "successes" by the way. Let me throw that out there.


He's not though. Bret and Benoit were much better wrestlers and they were some of the best, if not the best, in the company at the time. Swagger's a good wrestler, but I don't think he would make my 10 of in-ring workers in the company right now. Benoit (not to sure on Bret) was at least passable on the mic, whereas Swagger is an abomination on it. Bad comparisons imo.

EDIT:



Pierre McDunk said:


> For the love of god Christian needs to come back now. Still wanting Christian/Cesaro again. Also, if Jericho was going to stay long time I'd have loved to see them bring back Jericho/Christian as a team for a bit.


THIS. I want my all time favorite wrestler back already, I'd have him face Cesaro at Mania for the US Title, what a match that could be, and I'd have Christian win because do you know he hasn't been on a Mania card since WrestleMania 26, and hasn't won at Mania since WrestleMania 20. So I would give Christian the meaningful win that he deserves at Mania, Christian gets the US Title, a title he hasn't won before, and Cesaro moves up the card. Everyone wins.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

After seeing what Swagger has been capable of, it was plenty fitting. Which is why I said it.

He's not nearly as bad as people make him out to be. Not a single bit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Swagger is very good in the ring, tbh. I think most people lost interest during his rut a couple years ago and forget all the awesome matches he had before that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly. Nobody cared about Bret Hart's promos. They were there and yet fans got engrossed in his work. Yes, once again, successes breed different scenarios. I get that. Put that in the back of your mind and strip it down to the bare minimum. It's fairly identical. Quality worker _(some don't even think Bret was THAT good, tbhayley.)_ & blah on the mic. Doesn't mean they couldn't add something to the table. Bret clearly did. I see no reason why Swagger couldn't develop into a credible heel main eventer once again. Only to remain at that level on this go around.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Swagger and Del Rio will have a really capable opening match at Mania, I can see the both of them meshing well for a 10-15 minute match. 

Del Rio's walking out with the belt but I could see the feud carrying on for a while post Mania.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE literally gave us no reason to care about Swagger the moment he got moved from ECW. No surprise people don't give a fuck about him. They never really build him up. He won the WHC with zero build and looked like a chump in the process. Then he lost it and disappeared into the bottom of the card again. Now he's returned after disappearing completely for months and earns a WHC match at WM? Yeah ok. I'm sure fans will buy into him as a potential WHC again in 7 weeks :side:.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Exactly. Nobody cared about Bret Hart's promos. They were there and yet fans got engrossed in his work. Yes, once again, successes breed different scenarios. I get that. Put that in the back of your mind and strip it down to the bare minimum. It's fairly identical. Quality worker _(some don't even think Bret was THAT good, tbhayley.)_ & blah on the mic. Doesn't mean they couldn't add something to the table. Bret clearly did. I see no reason why Swagger couldn't develop into a credible heel main eventer once again. Only remain at that level on this go.


Right now with Swagger I think the forum's hivemind is in the skeptical stage. They're not sure whether or not it's cool to hop on the fandom train yet. Once they eventually do in a few months, he'll be booming on here. Then give it another 3 or 4 months and suddenly he's stale and the worst thing to ever happen to wrestling. It's the circle of life.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

People have bought into Del Rio as World Champ lickity split. I don't see a need for a double standard here.

@Brye - the backlash or boom for him is going to be cringeworthy no matter what. I guess the love train would be a bit more tolerable considering atm the loathing towards the man is highly questionable. At least the way Cal point it out has some clarity. That's why building him up right now is key.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

People have bought into Del Rio as champ? I'm gonna need a list of names and addresses. People need a SLAPPING.

I think its different with heels though. As a babyface Del Rio can pander to the crowd and overcome giant odds (Big Show) and the casuals think he's uber awesome and a great champ. Swagger needs a LOT more work to be credible in their eyes I think, regardless of how good he can actually be.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

To be fair, Swagger/Coulter already have a bunch of people in their 30's+ offended. As far as I'm concerned that's good heeling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Go read the posts on this place. It's Viva Del Rio right now.

It's why I mentioned the build atm. He's been on a tear since returning. Henry is getting the same booking although when he was last seen he was jobbing left and right. I know he's a beast, but point being it's not much of a stretch of difference if you set the tone for how the booking will be. It's all about how they choose to book Swagger from here on out. If well, it could work wonders for him possibly. If not, then it's back into obscurity for the Oakie. It's a simple enough scenario. I'm just not gonna rule it out yet b/c of the way the original went. He's getting a second chance. Shouldn't that earn a bit of praise for WWE trying to own up on a mistake and save a career?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have little faith in WWE a lot of the time so while they DO seem to be re-building Swagger atm... I'm not sure how long it will last . Hopefully as we continue to WM he gets to beat someone with... credibility. So far it's been losers like Ryder and Kofi. Bryan is the best he's had so far in a singles match. I'm still holding out a little though. WWE tend to get me into someone they just kill him dead randomly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't blame you for having the jaded mindset. I normally do myself. Right now the two angles that have my attention captured - Shield & Swagger + Dutch - are working at this moment. Feeling as if they'll continue to go strong in the coming weeks. I know it's wishful thinking, but I'll go along with it. If I get egg on my face one more time...well, so be it. *sigh if is becomes a reality.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*gets the eggs ready*



I really do HOPE that they do well with Swagger, I was one of the original Swagger fans around here (watched some of his stuff in FCW before he came to ECW and liked him). But any time they appear to do something with him they cut off his balls and send him packing. STOP IT WWWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

QUIT TOYING WITH THE EMOTIONS OF THE FANS.

After WM he'll be squashed by Cena and back on Superstars 8*D


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Exactly. Nobody cared about Bret Hart's promos. They were there and yet fans got engrossed in his work. Yes, once again, successes breed different scenarios. I get that. Put that in the back of your mind and strip it down to the bare minimum. It's fairly identical. Quality worker _(some don't even think Bret was THAT good, tbhayley.)_ & blah on the mic. *Doesn't mean they couldn't add something to the table*. Bret clearly did. I see no reason why Swagger couldn't develop into a credible heel main eventer once again. Only to remain at that level on this go around.


And the only thing Swagger brings to the table is sometimes good, not great matches (just going on his recent work) - and that's all. He's never going to have any memorable promos because he sucks terribly on the mic, and Zeb Colter is handling * everything* from a character perspective atm for him. 

From what I've read on here, the general consensus on Swagger atm is: that new character is good, the new theme is good, his new manager Zeb is great, but Swagger is just Swagger, that goofy looking guy who can't cut a promo to save his life and was jobbed out for two years so it brings his credibility into question that now he's suddenly in a World Title match at WrestleMania after suddenly returning. They're building him up again, but they need to do a lot more. Why is the contender for the World Title beating guys like Zack Ryder, when a guy like Mark Henry is going over guys like Randy Orton when he doesn't have a World Title match?

And as far as all this Del Rio talk goes, I'm still not a fan of him, but I can admit he's more tolerable as a face now and his matches are more interesting due to him implementing new moves into his matches. He's much more natural as a face and it shows. But I don't like that he's only pushed for being Mexican and the fact that he's made Ziggler tap out like three times in two weeks, that doesn't make your future World Champion look good at all, but that's more WWE's crappy booking fault.

Had to write out this reply twice because my computer deleted my reply the first time when I was nearly finished. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the point of a mouthpiece. Dutch should be handling all of the heavy lifting when it comes to the promo time. It's ideal.

The goofy crap needs to end. That's such an objective statement if I've ever heard one. The thought of goofy as never - not once - crossed my mind while watching the guy. It's fabricated among some people on here who don't like him. Much to the same about Kofi Kingston being "some guy who plays video games too much." Useless slander to target someone a specific poster _(or posters)_ don't want to see succeed and/or don't happen to enjoy.

Swagger's lack of mic skills has been proven. It's there. Already harped on the topic pages ago and even right now with why Dutch Mantell is aligned with him in the first place. Not everyone is blessed with the gift of gab. That's what associates some to be on a higher echelon. Doesn't mean Swagger can't have a really good, if not great, career following this current run.

As for the booking, it's simple. That's how WWE does their stuff nowadays. It isn't good. It could be better, but it's not out of the ordinary. Some fans will choose to buy it and some won't. Aka those who don't mind or like Swagger will be pro and those who don't will be against. There is quite a bit in-between now and WrestleMania. His progression can grow. Lets not jump the gun in any situation here. He's gone from Zack Ryder to Daniel Bryan. Not to mention Randy Orton was pinned on PPV in the middle of it. Right steps are being taken. I've yet to see a sign to where this new angle has gone in a wrong direction as of this moment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Judging by the spoilers I read, he has a great match against a very capable opponent on Smackdown this week (refraining from spoilers for my PEEPS). For some reason Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio is an appealing match to me because it's not the same old shit with the exception of Del Rio .... WHY WOULD ANYBODY SUPPORT HIM AS WORLD CHAMPION ? I just don't understand it ; Del Rio is in one of the worst WHC feuds ever (arguably the worst) against Sheamus, turns face and wrestles against the 3MB, and then randomly wins the world title ?.. OKAY ?

If Swagger could take the belt (bets are he won't) Then Swagger vs Jericho/Orton/Sheamus all appeal to me in some way. If GOD FORBID Del Rio retains and there's NOT a Ziggler cash in at Mania, there's only one place to go and that's a feud with Henry.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

Thanks for spoiling SD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching John Cena vs The Jiz from Wrestlemania XXVII. WOWZERS THIS IS BAD .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Miz is in that category of "So bad for a WRESTLEMANIA main event that it's actually hilarious"

Still a DUD for me, any way you look at it, it's a bad match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd put it as the undisputed worst Wrestlemania main event honestly, with nothing really coming close. From the horrendous pacing all the way to the Rock nonsense at the end, to the fact that it's THE FUCKING MIZ IN THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA AHAHAHAHAHAHA........ It's just BAD.

I love how we went from HBK-Taker to Miz-Cena as a Wrestlemania Main Event :lol .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WM 27 was the definition of a filler Wrestlemania.

29 is also looking that way at the moment sadly.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> The goofy crap needs to end. That's such an objective statement if I've ever heard one. The thought of goofy as never - not once - crossed my mind while watching the guy. It's fabricated among some people on here who don't like him. Much to the same about Kofi Kingston being "some guy who plays video games too much." *Useless slander to target someone a specific poster (or posters) don't want to see succeed and/or don't happen to enjoy*.


No it isn't. When I think of goofy, I think of Swagger. I don't think that because I don't like him, and I don't say that to target those who like him, that's just a word that perfectly describes him for me. He has a goofy appearance and mannerisms, he makes goofy facial expressions, he acts goofy, and he talks in a goofy way with his distinct raspy voice and his obviously lisp when he talks further adds to that goofyness. It's one of the reasons why I can't take him seriously as a threat, not matter how they book him.



KingOfKings said:


> *Judging by the spoilers I read, he has a great match against a very capable opponent on Smackdown this week (refraining from spoilers for my PEEPS).* For some reason Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio is an appealing match to me because it's not the same old shit with the exception of Del Rio .... WHY WOULD ANYBODY SUPPORT HIM AS WORLD CHAMPION ? I just don't understand it ; Del Rio is in one of the worst WHC feuds ever (arguably the worst) against Sheamus, turns face and wrestles against the 3MB, and then randomly wins the world title ?.. OKAY ?
> 
> If Swagger could take the belt (bets are he won't) Then Swagger vs Jericho/Orton/Sheamus all appeal to me in some way. If GOD FORBID Del Rio retains and there's NOT a Ziggler cash in at Mania, there's only one place to go and that's a feud with Henry.


You reminded me to check out the Smackdown Spoilers, so thanks for that. And without spoiling anything for those who don't read the spoilers, that's a much better opponent for him to beat, the booking is getting better and that's good to make him look more credible with the casuals.

It's good that Del Rio/Swagger is a fresh match-up, and they'll likely put on a good match, but I don't think it should be for the World Title. This match could of easily been a match without the title.

I'm thinking Ziggler will cash in at Mania, and Swagger won't win the title.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania XXIX looks like a way to accomplish a few things (Cena getting his win back, prolonging the streak... That's about it) while at the same time setting up for what seems to be their biggest show yet ; Wrestlemania XXX. 

Rock-Brock
Cena-Taker
Punk-Game

There's your OMGZ TRIPLE MAIN EVENT. 6 million BUYZ. :lol @ how some people on here let the ratings and buyrates tell that what's good and what's bad .


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

KingOfKings said:


> I'd put it as the undisputed worst Wrestlemania main event honestly, with nothing really coming close. From the horrendous pacing all the way to the Rock nonsense at the end, to the fact that it's THE FUCKING MIZ IN THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA AHAHAHAHAHAHA........ It's just BAD.
> 
> I love how we went from HBK-Taker to Miz-Cena as a Wrestlemania Main Event :lol .


and how they went from WM 26 to WM 27 with the difference in quality. i didn't care about any of the feuds going into 27 cept Punk/Orton but when it was over i regretted ordering the show.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I literally just got finished watching it. Overall I liked the show more than most people did due to the fact that I'm a huge fan of HHH-Taker, Punk-Orton, and Rhodes-Mysterio, but it is unacceptable to have WRESTLE-FUCKING-MANIA end with a disgrace like that honestly. The show itself ended like a regular fucking episode of Monday Night Raw except for the fact that you know... IT WAS WRESTLE FUCKING MANIA.

One more Mania left until I start composing some lists and throwing them out there to get everybody hyped up for Rematch Mania.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Did you watch Cole/Lawler again KOK? Because of Cole/Lawler and The Miz main-eventing WrestleMania and how bad his match with Cena was, makes it one of the worst WrestleMania's in recent memory.

Edit: just looking at the card again, The Corre getting buried in a minute and Ziggler stuck in that awful celebrity mixed tag match were other factors that made this show just awful for me. Oh and that Atlanta Crowd were shit by WrestleMania standards.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I did, and it goes without saying that it's one of the worst matches I've seen in a while and a definite candidate for Worst Wrestlemania Match Ever. How much you like this show depends on how much you love GAME VS TAKER, and since I'm possibly the biggest fan of that match in this universe it probably makes Mania XXVII better in my eyes. 

3 matches from this event made my top 50... It had to be doing SOMETHING right, even though by the end of it I was kinda like "umm........... What the fuck was that ?" :lol .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, after watching WM 1, 2 and 3... I have to say I'm surprised at how... not so shitty 2 of them are. Only one great match out of the 3, but a lot of fun to be had with a lot of the matches even if they get super low ratings. Most of the time its due to them getting 3 minutes or something lol. They ain't making my top 10 list or anything of course, and neither are the matches, but still, aside from WM 2 I could sit through a lot of the matches easy enough. WM 4 is a mixed bag atm though.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

WM 27
Edge/ADR **
Rhodes/Mysterio ***1/2
Punk/Orton**
Lawler/Cole**
HHH/Taker**** (2nd MOTY for 2011)
Screw everything else.

The only appeal of the main event for me was Rocks involvement so i liked the ending but they could've simply had Rock come to the ring instead of the false finish.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Malenko needs to be punched in the face for being the agent/having a large part of putting that Lawler/Cole match together. Should have been 5 minutes of Lawler destroying Cole, then the finish (though it was a shitty finish, feud should have ended here).


----------



## WM24 (Mar 31, 2008)

Just picked up:

Best ppv matches of 2012
Cm punk: best in the world
Tlc 2012

How do you guys feel about them? Some of my friends consider the cm punk DVD to be one of the greatest that wwe has made.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WM24 said:


> Just picked up:
> 
> Best ppv matches of 2012
> Cm punk: best in the world
> ...


Best PPV matches is meh. I don't own nor have I seen it but I've seen the matches that are listed on it and quite frankly they could have done better. The 2011 is better.

CM Punk DVD is cool just to hear his story, see some cool IWA MS footage and OVW as well. It's a good documentary.

TLC 2012 is the second best PPV of 2012 for (after Extreme Rules). Top-down a great card.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know Cole was probably afraid, but that shit should have ended with a Piledriver. WHO HAD THE BRILLIANT FUCKING IDEA FOR THE FEUD TO END AT OVER THE LIMIT ?!?!?!

I never quite understood why Wrestlemania XXVIII gets a free pass, I've even heard some people say it's the "best Mania since X-7". On that card (I'm about to watch it now to get a better picture) there's two "AWESOME" matches, one "Good" match, and the rest are up in the air. 

Wrestlemania IV is probably my least favorite Mania ever besides the ending. Savage-Dibiase may be insanely overrated in the sense that it's not that good, but that last moment that the show ends on is fucking fantastic and it just makes the whole show a feel good one..... ACTUALLY no I hate the first two Wrestlemanias more .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk set is awesome. Incredible doc, probably a top 5 for me easy. Some great matches on the set too, and some great bluray extras as well.

TLC 2012... SHIELD 6 man is worth the price alone.

Best PPV matches of 2012... don't remember the listing, cba to look. There were plenty of great PPV matches though, so no doubt it has some great ones on... then the usual "WWE thinks they are great because Cena or some other big star was involved even though they sucked balls".


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

WM 28 is on par with Extreme Rules, great main events but the undercard is poor. Can't rate a show high when half the card is terrible.



Big Z said:


> Malenko needs to be punched in the face for being the agent/having a large part of putting that Lawler/Cole match together. Should have been 5 minutes of Lawler destroying Cole, then the finish (though it was a shitty finish, feud should have ended here).


Yeah the match shouldve been shorter with Cole not getting a control sequence. 
What worse is that they gave us the correct match 2 months later at Over the Limit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Punk DVD is EPIC, and I need to pick up TLC 2012 today once I'm done with Wrestlemania XXVIII because I haven't even seen it yet .

That Best PPV matches DVD though, I'm not sure about that one. The two best PPV matches of the year (John Cena vs BROCK Lesnar, CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan @ OTL) aren't even fucking on it. As a matter of fact, four out of my top five matches of 2012 aren't on the DVD, but two of them are on the Punk DVD anyways so it doesn't matter. Plus you get THE PERFECT STORM, so you should be thrilled to go watch that and come back saying how everybody besides me underrates it.

:brock :jpl .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It really just doesn't feel like the Road to Mania at all. February is almost over and absolutely nothing has happened apart from Cena/Punk/Rock scenario and Swagger/Del Rio being announced. What's going on with the midcard? miz vs Cesaro pt 1000 at Mania? Barrett vs Bo Dallas at Mania? Yikes! What about the tag titles? Divas? Speaking of Divas, it's been like 3 weeks since they haven't been on TV. I can never understand how RAW is 3 hours and still no time for Divas. 

Mania is literally a one match show this year. I get that there's still almost 2 moths to go but considering that almost 2 months have gone in the year and we're still in the same position we were in at the start of the year, this Mania is just shaping up to be lackluster.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I did, and it goes without saying that it's one of the worst matches I've seen in a while and a definite candidate for Worst Wrestlemania Match Ever. How much you like this show depends on how much you love GAME VS TAKER, and since I'm possibly the biggest fan of that match in this universe it probably makes Mania XXVII better in my eyes.
> 
> 3 matches from this event made my top 50... It had to be doing SOMETHING right, even though by the end of it I was kinda like "umm........... What the fuck was that ?" :lol .


When I watched it live with my brother at the time, we only really enjoyed HHH/Taker. I haven't watched any of the matches from that show since then, so I may need to watch matches like Punk/Orton and Edge/Del Rio again. I felt those matches were average when I watched them at the time, but little did we know that Edge/Del Rio would be Edge's last match. 



WM24 said:


> Just picked up:
> 
> Best ppv matches of 2012
> Cm punk: best in the world
> ...


Good purchase. I recently bought Punk's DVD myself. The documentary on CM Punk's DVD is great and is worth purchasing the DVD just for that. I haven't got around to watching any of the matches yet, but there's many great Punk matches on that DVD.

TLC 2012 was a great show, Ryback/Hell No vs The Shield TLC match was my MOTY in 2012, Ziggler/Cena was great too. As a big Ziggler mark, I was very pleased with that match, Ziggler's most significant match in his career and he won it!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WAIT WAIT WAIT.... Ziggler goes from beating Cena in the main event of a PPV, to constantly jobbing out to Del Rio on free TV ? WOOOWWWWW WWE.

Man I'm so fucking hyped up for The End of an Era match even though I've already seen it like five times :mark: :mark: :mark:

Strangely excited for Punk-Jericho (that's not strange) and Rock-Cena II (That's more like it). I'm glad this took place before The Rock became The Roid after his comeback this year. Did ANYBODY else notice how huge he has gotten over the past year due to his "bulking up" for Hercules ? HE CAN BARELY MOVE NOW  !

OH.... Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan.... FUCK YOU.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WM 27 and WM 28 are both shit Manias if you ask. I don't care to re-watch either. The last good Mania was 26. 

And I'm getting tired of this re-match bullshit the WWE is persistent on doing now. At least the Austin/Rock trilogy had a one year gap in between.

I don't know how anyone can put Extreme Rules 2012 and WM 28 on the same level. Extreme Rules undercard was freaking awesome so too was the upper card and DAT MAIN EVENT. 

Extreme Rules is just a top-down excellent PPV. From the opening contest to the main event, everything delivered.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

sharkboy22 said:


> It really just doesn't feel like the Road to Mania at all. February is almost over and absolutely nothing has happened apart from Cena/Punk/Rock scenario and Swagger/Del Rio being announced. What's going on with the midcard? miz vs Cesaro pt 1000 at Mania? Barrett vs Bo Dallas at Mania? Yikes! What about the tag titles? Divas? Speaking of Divas, it's been like 3 weeks since they haven't been on TV. I can never understand how RAW is 3 hours and still no time for Divas.
> 
> Mania is literally a one match show this year. I get that there's still almost 2 moths to go but considering that almost 2 months have gone in the year and we're still in the same position we were in at the start of the year, this Mania is just shaping up to be lackluster.


Looks like they're making up for the fact that Lesnar and Rock aren't going to be appearing every RAW before WM. For the past 3 years the three biggest matches on the card were confirmed a week after the EC.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> WAIT WAIT WAIT.... Ziggler goes from beating Cena in the main event of a PPV, to constantly jobbing out to Del Rio on free TV ? WOOOWWWWW WWE.


It seems to be typical booking of Ziggler, he gains some momentum and then loses it. He also went over Orton clean at Survivor Series the PPV prior to TLC, and now he's tapped out to Del Rio like 3 times in 2 weeks, what a way to build up your future World Champion...



KingOfKings said:


> OH.... Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan.... FUCK YOU.


When I watched that match with 5 other people in the room at the time, many laughs were had. Didn't see that coming at all, but it was so funny to witness. :lol


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Extreme Rules is a far better show then WM 28.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dolph is a strange case because he works like a babyface with his ability to take a beatdown and bump all around the place, but his natural charisma just suggests that he's, well.... For the lack of a better term, a "DICK". He's one of the up and coming talents that just screams "STAR", and when it comes to untapped potential I'd put him right there with D-Bry, which is strange because instead of pushing guys like D-Bry and Ziggler they push Del Rio ? Okay ? ... I'm honestly like 90 percent sure that Ziggler walks out of Wrestlemania as the WHC though, so that should be something. I wanna see him in the WWE title picture with the big boys by the end of the year though.

I have Extreme Rules 2012 ranked above like 25 Wrestlemanias. It's seriously one of the greatest PPVs ever.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Elimination Chamber 2013 - John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield*

The finishing sequence of that match was phenomenal. The timing by all of the guys involved with it was absolutely perfect. Cena hit his finisher moments before Reigns hit that spear on Ryback and Cena wasn't able to break up the pinfall. The announcers reiterated JBL’s point that The Shield is an awesome team that works so well together to accomplish their goals. That was the perfect way to book the match. It’s a big win for The Shield because they beat three top guys in a decisive manner with a clean finish. The two Heat segments leading to the hit tags was done phenomenally too. ****1/4


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Have to agree here, ER 2012 was an excellent PPV. I dont remember grading the matches, so:

Santino/Miz- *
Orton/Kane- ***1/2
Clay/Ziggler- **
Cody/Show- *1/4
Bryan/Sheamus- ****1/2
Jericho/Punk- ****
Bella/Layla- DUD
Lesnar/Cena- *****


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ER 2012:

Santino/Miz- Don't remember
Orton/Kane- ***
Clay/Ziggler- Don't remember
Cody/Show- 3/4*
Bryan/Sheamus- ****1/4
Jericho/Punk- ***3/4
Bella/Layla- DUD
Lesnar/Cena- ****1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Kane/Orton : **** 1/4*
Bryan/Sheamus : ***** 1/4*
Jericho/Punk : ******
BROCK/Cena : ****** (MOTY)*

All that matters from the show. Arguably the best non big four PPV ever.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Dolph is a strange case because he works like a babyface with his ability to take a beatdown and bump all around the place, but his natural charisma just suggests that he's, well.... For the lack of a better term, a "DICK". He's one of the up and coming talents that just screams "STAR", and when it comes to untapped potential I'd put him right there with D-Bry, which is strange because instead of pushing guys like D-Bry and Ziggler they push Del Rio ? Okay ? ... I'm honestly like 90 percent sure that Ziggler walks out of Wrestlemania as the WHC though, so that should be something. I wanna see him in the WWE title picture with the big boys by the end of the year though.


A lot of his offense comes across as babyface as well, the dropkicks, the fameasser signature, the super kick, these moves I feel the crowd could really get behind if he was a face. Plus he's been getting face reactions in his matches for a long time, he plays the perfect underdog. Agreed on Ziggler, nice to see someone else appreciate his talents, he's been getting a lot of hate on this forum atm..

And Del Rio's being pushed for the Mexican market, as Mysterio's on his last legs and Sin Cara's a underwhelming letdown, and they need a top face to represent there ever growing Latino market. Del Rio's been more interesting as a face but I still don't really care for him, would much rather see Ziggler in his position.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think the only thing that rivals ER as best non-big 4 PPV ever is Vengeace 2003 -

Eddie/Benoit - ****
WGTT/ReyKidman - *** 1/2
Taker/Cena - ****
Show/Lesnar/Angle - **** 1/2

As well as Gowen/Vince being FUN (albeit being a few minutes too long), a kinda fun bar room brawl, a harmless Noble/Gunn match and a STUPID Sable/Steph match.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

ER 2012

Kane/Orton ***
Jericho/Punk ****
Sheamus/Bryan ****1/2
Cena/Brock ****3/4

Any show with three ****+ matches is legit. Prefer a couple of classics over completely consistent shows.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ER 201481:

Punk/Jericho - ***1/2
Sheamus/Bryan - ****1/4
Lesnar/Cena - ****1/2


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

You guys be on the wrong year


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Why can't we just have a Wrestlemania with actual storylines and not "____ is back! Throw him with _____"? I understand TEH BUYRATZ and that I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the show if it draws low, but fuck. It's Wrestlemania, this should be where the biggest stories of the year are going down.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trying to think of NON Big Four Shows that would score 20+ on the CAL SCALE :

Backlash 2000
Fully Loaded 2000
No Mercy 2002
Vengeance 2003
Vengeance 2005
No Way Out 2006
Money in the Bank 2011
Summerslam 2011
Extreme Rules 2012

That's it off the top of my head really. Maybe No Mercy 2008 but I'm not really sure about that one TBH. I honestly can't decide which is better ; Extreme Rules 2012, MITB 11, or Summerslam 2011. Blows my fucking mind actually.

EDIT : YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT YOU CAN'T ENJOY IT. I'll watch it, but I won't be sure if I like it or not until the buyrate has been released.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Cause all the big draws are part timers and not on the full time roster like in past manias. Seems they don't have faith in creating big matches between members of the full time roster.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

MITB 2011 RULES THE WORLD.

They may be other B shows that have better match quality consistency.

But MITB 2011 is just a very special show.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Man, that Taker/Cena chemistry is something else. Now that I sit and think of it, a Cena/Taker match at Mania won't be that bad.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Cena/Taker at Mania is MARQUEE. IDEAL.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

MITB 2011:

SD MITB Match- ****
Bella/Kelly- *
Henry/Show- **
RAW MITB Match- ***
Christian/Orton- ***1/2
Punk/Cena- *****

Also, loved the 2007 Summerslam.:

Kane/Finlay- **3/4
Kennedy/Umaga/carlito- **
Mysterio/Chavo- ***1/4
Divas Battle Royale- DUD
Punk/Morrison- ***(too short)
Booker/HHH- ***1/4
Khali/Batista- *
Cena/Orton- ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching the End of an Era match now and I have to address something that I've noticed the past few years watching these Undertaker Streak Matches.....

WHO THE HELL IS THAT GUY WHO SCREAMS "GUILLOTINE LEG DROP" everytime Taker goes outside the ring ? I mean, it's been the EXACT SAME GUY every single time since like Mania XXIV. Does the WWE PAY this guy or does he somehow just get front row tickets to Wrestlemania every single year ? I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed this, but it's definitely a little thing you guys should look out for next time :lol .

Taker actually just went for the leg drop too and that guy was marking out screaming "HERE IT IS!"


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

What did Extreme Rules 2011 score on the Cal Scale?

Fucking love that pay-per-view. Punk/Orton, Del Rio/Christian, Rey/Cody, Miz/Cena/Morrison :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I haven't watched Extreme Rules 2011 in AGES , but going by old reviews I would imagine it falls somewhere between 15 and 20 .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching the End of an Era match now and I have to address something that I've noticed the past few years watching these Undertaker Streak Matches.....
> 
> WHO THE HELL IS THAT GUY WHO SCREAMS "GUILLOTINE LEG DROP" everytime Taker goes outside the ring ? I mean, it's been the EXACT SAME GUY every single time since like Mania XXIV. Does the WWE PAY this guy or does he somehow just get front row tickets to Wrestlemania every single year ? I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed this, but it's definitely a little thing you guys should look out for next time :lol .
> 
> Taker actually just went for the leg drop too and that guy was marking out screaming "HERE IT IS!"


It's Starbuck or Clique. :side:


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Extreme Rules 2011 was so much better than Wrestlemania XXVII (at least to me). Some hella good matches on that card. I will take this opportunity to boldly throw out that I still think Punk/Orton @Mania is underrated.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haven't seen ER 2011 since it aired, but I doubt it would reach 10 on the CAL SCALE.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

In terms of consistency, Extreme Rules is the best PPV of the PG era followed by MITB although I found last year's event to be a bit underwhelming. 

But Extreme Rules never fails to deliver.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching the End of an Era match now and I have to address something that I've noticed the past few years watching these Undertaker Streak Matches.....
> 
> WHO THE HELL IS THAT GUY WHO SCREAMS "GUILLOTINE LEG DROP" everytime Taker goes outside the ring ? I mean, it's been the EXACT SAME GUY every single time since like Mania XXIV. Does the WWE PAY this guy or does he somehow just get front row tickets to Wrestlemania every single year ? I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed this, but it's definitely a little thing you guys should look out for next time :lol .
> 
> Taker actually just went for the leg drop too and that guy was marking out screaming "HERE IT IS!"


:lmao That guy cracks me up. Reminds me of seeing that older-looking dude in the front row of every PPV during the 90s. I remember him marking out hard when Sid beat HBK @ MSG for the title.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The ladder match was the only match I really thought was good from ER '11.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching the End of an Era match now and I have to address something that I've noticed the past few years watching these Undertaker Streak Matches.....
> 
> WHO THE HELL IS THAT GUY WHO SCREAMS "GUILLOTINE LEG DROP" everytime Taker goes outside the ring ? I mean, it's been the EXACT SAME GUY every single time since like Mania XXIV. Does the WWE PAY this guy or does he somehow just get front row tickets to Wrestlemania every single year ? I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed this, but it's definitely a little thing you guys should look out for next time :lol .
> 
> Taker actually just went for the leg drop too and that guy was marking out screaming "HERE IT IS!"


This is even funnier than last night when my username was about to turn into a gimmick just because you were eating an Oreo. :lmao

ER 11 and 12 are both great. I don't enjoy Jericho/Punk as much as others but Sheamus/Bryan and Lesnar/Cena are simply unfuckwithable. My only issue with the show was the ending and I've thankfully gotten over that now.

For great non-big 4 PPVs, I'd consider Backlash 2004 close there. Two CLASSICS and some decent stuff. I'll give the CAL SCALE a try for this one.

Shelton Benjamin vs Ric Flair - ★★¾ - 1
Coach vs Tajiri - ★½ - 0.5
Jericho vs Christian/Trish - ★★½ - 1
Victoria vs Lita - ★★½ - 1
Orton vs Foley - ★★★★½ - 7
Rosey/Hurricane vs La Resistance - ½★ - 0
Edge vs Kane - ★ - 0
Benoit vs HHH vs HBK - ★★★★½ - 7

Result: 17.5


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I thought Orton/Punk and the triple threat WWE Title Steel Cage match were good from Extreme Rules 2011. The Cage match being one of the only good matches in The Miz's title reign.



Choke2Death said:


> For great non-big 4 PPVs, I'd consider Backlash 2004 close there. Two CLASSICS and some decent stuff. I'll give the CAL SCALE a try for this one.
> 
> Shelton Benjamin vs Ric Flair - ★★¾ - 1
> Coach vs Tajiri - ★½ - 0.5
> ...


Awesome PPV. Shelton/Flair was fun, Jericho/Christian/Trish was a good angle although that's their weakest match in their feud, but it's still alright. Orton/Foley was great, Orton was awesome back then. Benoit/HHH/HBK was a great match but not as good as their Mania match. Their Mania match is a ******* from me. Probably my GOAT match.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

So Swagger, huh? :lol

Makes the WHC build a little more interesting, considering they've been going kamehameha with Swagg's push. Feel for Dutch though. The man just returned with an awesome gimmick.

Hopefully opens the door for ADR/Henry.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd prefer ADR/Henry. Henry's been very entertaining since returning, but as I've said in the Swagger thread, it literally doesn't matter what the World Title match is at Mania - because I'm pretty sure Ziggler will be cashing in at WrestleMania and walking out the new World Champion.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

El Cuñado said:


> So Swagger, huh? :lol
> 
> Makes the WHC build a little more interesting, considering they've been going kamehameha with Swagg's push. Feel for Dutch though. The man just returned with an awesome gimmick.
> 
> Hopefully opens the door for ADR/Henry.


WE THE PEOPLE!

They should have been doing Del Rio/Henry from the get go. I don't get why have Mark freaking rating Henry return in such dominating fashion and not have him win the chamber. One of your most upper midcard babyfaces vs one of your most over upper midcard heels at Mania. How the hell could you not book that? 

Swagger could have gotten a title show at any other time but at Wrestlemania? You're freaking kidding right? 

I really hope we get Del Rio/Henry. I knew the Wrestling Gods couldn't have let this go on for so long.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DEL RIO - HENRY :mark:
DEL RIO - HENRY :mark:
DEL RIO - HENRY :mark:

*THAT'S WHAT I DO !*

Seriously though Swagger.... I was actually REALLY loving his character w/ZEB. OH WELL, WE ALWAYS HAVE TIME TO TURN MARK HENRY INTO A TEA PARTY BASTARD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> *THAT'S WHAT I DO !*


BECAUSE OF CROWDS LIKE YOU!

Anyways, Mizark vs Del Rio sounds a lot more appealing to me. Mark really deserves better than Khali.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Henry/Khali would be as bad as Kane/Khali at Mania. Match shouldn't happen, and Henry's beaten Khali many times before so I don't understand why it would happen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know what you're hoping for. You're praying to god that Orton somehow gets that number one contendership since everybody else seems already tied up in something, aren't you  ?

Who knows. They could be so "high" on Swagger that they could give him a 30 day suspension and make it a triple threat or something. I highly doubt it, best bet is on Henry at this point.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Ortons probably gonna be on the pre show wrestling the Primetime Players or something.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I seriously wouldn't doubt it if they put him in the big filler multi-man match that they do seemingly every single year :lol.

When Randy Orton/Miz vs The Primetime Players is more likely than Orton in the main event, you know he's fallen far .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I know what you're hoping for. You're praying to god that Orton somehow gets that number one contendership since everybody else seems already tied up in something, aren't you  ?
> 
> Who knows. They could be so "high" on Swagger that they could give him a 30 day suspension and make it a triple threat or something. I highly doubt it, best bet is on Henry at this point.


Nah, Orton has wrestled Del Rio many times already and it'll be face vs face. I wouldn't mind it if he turned heel along the way and took the title at Mania, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can see Orton vs Sin Cara as a possible match. Wellness Policy Violation on a pole match.

rton2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best of all would be a match with Jericho. He looks like he's no longer tied up with Ziggler, so it would be the perfect pairing. Ziggler can cash in his contract at Mania. I already give zero fucks for the title scene, so might as well keep it that way.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I honestly can't believe Swagger could be so stupid. You are about to be in the WHC match at Wrestlemania, so I'M GOING TO GO GET HIGH AND DRUNK AND DRIVE!

Genius....

Del Rio/Henry would rule the world though, WWE has to do that match right? I mean who else could it be, I swear if we get Del Rio/Big Show at WM i'll be so pissed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What's hilarious at this point is that I'd rather see Orton vs Sin Cara with a "Get Out of Wellness Policy Violation Free Card" on the line than another Orton vs Barrett/Cesaro/Del Rio/Insert Random Midcarder Here. I mean JESUS CHRIST, he has wrestled every single Mid Carder in the company like a million times by now. He either needs to change SOMETHING or just go away for half a year. There are literally only like 1 or 2 "fresh" Orton options at this point where it wouldn't be beating a dead horse.

DEL RIO - HENRY or DEL RIO - ZIGGLER - JERICHO PLZ. Del Rio - Ziggler can fuck off and die.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Del Rio vs. Ziggler after Del Rio making Ziggles tap out twice in two weeks would be absolutely ridiculous. Plus if their past two matches are anything to go by it wouldn't even be that good. Del Rio vs. Mizark is the only way to go at the point, in my opinion, unless they superman push another heel midcarder.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Have Swagger come out Monday and get absolutely squashed like a bug by MARK FUCKING HENRY. Then have Henry tear shit up and probably kick the shit out of Booker T and Retardo Rodriguez or something until he gets granted his title shot at Mania.

*MARK GETS THE SHOT THAT HE EARNED BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE DOES. SWAGGIE GOING INTO THE HALL OF PAIN!*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nothing like spending the morning telling people to be optimistic about Swagger's push.

Then THIS shit happens. I did say I could be setting up for egg on my face for becoming invested. You know what? I had to wipe off a whole god damn omelet off my mug. ugh.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Cena-Punk from Summerslam is great. From HHH patting them both down before ringing the bell to John Cena actualy wrestling amidst the "You can't wrestle" chat, which actually wasn't even half bad. It came off really well me to. Hell, we even saw a Crossface (which Cole called a facelock LOL). Loved the back and forth action, kind of a finisher fest but not quite. Pretty much just a match that would have been kick ass to watch live. I loved it, loved the ending, but hate hate HATED Del Rio cashing in. Yea, another disappointing Kevin Nash angle was kind of cool I guess, but this was the hottest feud I'd seen in a while and I feel like they just tossed it out while it was still fresh and HOT. Big mistake by the company.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... any hope WWE pairs up Sandow and Colter from here on out? I mean yeah, Sandow certainly doesn't need a mouthpiece, but their gimmicks would just go so fucking well together. Even if Sandow doesn't get in the World Title scene for Mania off it, I'd still like to see it happen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One of my favorite matches ever, and the perfect complement to one of the GOAT matches at Money in the Bank. The fans were fucking HORRIBLE for the match but I still hold it in my mind as perhaps the greatest Summerslam main event ever (we'll see once Summer actually comes and I buy the anthology  ). It still makes me rage that the payoff to this big angle was Nash vs HHH in a sledgehammer ladder match of all fucking things. Complete fucking nonsense.

Summerslam 2011 is :mark: because there's not a single bad match on the card, not even the Divas. We get Wade Borrett's best match, Sheamus-MARK "Ratings" Henry, DAT OPENING TAG, and of course the epic double main event.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> So... any hope WWE pairs up Sandow and Colter from here on out? I mean yeah, Sandow certainly doesn't need a mouthpiece, but their gimmicks would just go so fucking well together. Even if Sandow doesn't get in the World Title scene for Mania off it, I'd still like to see it happen.


 I hope so but Sandow lost against Del Rio in like 2/3 minutes so can't see him as a real threat. Then again, Swagger was a jobber before his return so you never really know. 

Would be awesome if it happens but unfortunetly, it's unrealistic.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oliver-94 said:


> I hope so but Sandow lost against Del Rio in like 2/3 minutes so can't see him as a real threat. Then again, Swagger was a jobber before his return so you never really know.
> 
> Would be awesome if it happens but unfortunetly, it's unrealistic.


That happened what? A week ago? Two weeks ago?

No one remembers that. :vince


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> That happened what? A week ago? Two weeks ago?
> 
> No one remembers that. :vince


 True :lol


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Sandow with Zeb would be great. Both are highly entertaining. Regardless, I just want Sandow to get pushed again, the guy's very talented and he's doing nothing but pointless jobs lately and the worst was when he jobbed to Clay and Tensai on the pre show to Elimination Chamber. fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's what happens when the list of talent actually showcased are in such a gross capacity. All kinds of potential with the heels and it's unfortunately left some out of the loop. Specifics being Rhodes & Sandow. All kinds of talent with no direction atm.

I wouldn't credit a loss to a new tag team as a bad sign. Faces need to become credible themselves. It was the assault by R-Truth on Sandow that didn't do the man any favors. He was made to look like a chump. At the expense of a mediocre 40 year old who isn't worth a lick. Now that's bad.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Swagger is a moron. Whatever though. I was fine with Del Rio/Swagger but Del Rio/Henry would be so much better. Hopefully that's the route they take.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's what I'm hoping for now. Granted, Henry losing would be frustrating. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I want that feud just to see Retardo get fucked up by the BOSS himself.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Why all the Ricardo hate? 

I started liking him even more when he stole the briefcase on Monday. :lol


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I just wanted to see Ricardo get deported then return at Mania and help Del Rio win.

Fuck you Swagger.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Never got the Ricardo craze tbh. Guy's 1,000x more charismatic and a better mic worker than Del Rio, but that's not saying much. 

I did see one promo I really liked from him, from FCW with a bunch of guys, but I can't remember what it was about. He mentioned his relationship with Del Rio in there. That got me thinking there's much more Ricardo can offer than what he is now and actually do something great and really become a fan.

I suppose Ricardo or Del Rio will have to turn on the other at some point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ricardo is the worst. I was forced to see Ricardo & Big E. tension on RAW. I wanted to pull a Jack Swagger and ruin my life.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Del Rio SUCKS. I'd take Sin Cara over him for WHC simply because there's hilarity in how bad Sin Cara is. Del Rio is DULL BAD and that's the worst of all.

FUCK RETARDO. Seriously the most annoying character in the company right now, and I'd pay hard earned money to watch Henry make him BLEED.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Why all the Ricardo hate?
> 
> *I started liking him even more when he stole the briefcase on Monday. :lol*


:lol I was laughing at that even though I'm a Ziggler fan. When Big E chased him and got the briefcase back I was hoping Ziggler was going to cash in, then he got owned by Del Rio. So many times Ziggler's tried to cash in only to be stopped, it's annoying. :side:

I just want him as World Champion now, and I'm sure the non-Ziggler fans like yourself just want his World Title reign over with.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ricardo taking that crazy bump in one of the TLC matches Del Rio was in is his defining moment.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Ricardo taking that crazy bump in one of the TLC matches Del Rio was in is his defining moment.


It was:






Such a sick bump. I was so surprised that he took that when I watching at the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ricardo as a non-annoying face = fine enough.

Right now it's bad. So, so bad.

Greg, what are your thoughts on Norman Smiley? :hmm:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Greg, what are your thoughts on Norman Smiley? :hmm:


BIG WIGGLE


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I'm talking guys I can't stand in the company right now I'd probably rank them like this (1 being the guy I despise the most) :

1. Ryberg
2. The Roid
3. Retardo Rodriguez
4. The Jiz
5. Al-Bore-To Dull-Rio

Fuck all of those guys. Ryberg is number one because I have to put up with him when The Roid goes on another 9 month adventure to Hollywood before coming back and main eventing another Entertainment-Mania. I don't even think any of these guys need an explanation as to why I despise them so much. Obviously guys like Sin Cara are worse, but Sin Cara is such a fail that the hilarity of him even existing blows my mind.

UGH. I swear to god every time I think about wrestling now I can't help but remember that The Roid has the WWE Championship and that makes me want to go on an angry fucking rant that I don't have the energy for right now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't get the Del Rio hate. Maybe it's because I've always cared more about in-ring ability than anything else and to me Del Rio has been consistently good in that department since he turned face. 

Ricardo is awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I don't mind either of them tbh. If anything, I like both of them now more than ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Del Rio isn't bad, and that's what separates him from everybody else on my list of hate. I just find his personality and his matches incredibly dull and his push out of fucking nowhere. Atleast Swagger's push had the awesome and potentially image crippling gimmick behind it with Zeb. Del Rio has NOTHING going for him besides that he's Mexican and they need somebody to replace Rey now that Sin Cara has been such a fucking bust .

I'll be the first to admit that Del Rio barely EVER puts on what I would call a BAD match... I just can't bring myself to care about ANYTHING he does. FUCK RETARDO TOO :lol .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> BIG WIGGLE


IMO

Del Rio's cool. It's the force feeding upon each rapid push that gets old. Never take the time to build the man up. His credibility towards being a major champion was no different than Swagger's back in 2010. Only Swagger got a reaction when he first won it. Luckily for Del Rio, this time around has proven to be a bit better. Too bad it's marred with the minority tripe. Win it for the competition. Not for Mexico. I hate it.

Only ones on the roster I seem to "hate" atm are Orton, Langston, Ricardo, Kofi, & Truth. Rest are either on my good side or floating around. About all dislike for the uber push of Sin Cara has diminished thanks to his lower card role. His ego is the shits. He's an asshole. Yet, if they keep him down and working matches like he currently is, I'll continue to tolerate him.

Oh, and Rock too. Go away.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't had a problem with Del Rio's out of nowhere push. The fans have accepted him as a main eventer already and he's done everything he could to look like he belongs. The Big Show feud was perfect for him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

THE ROCK is the best thing about this company right now. Cuts the best promos, has an awesome alias (specially in CAPITALS), brings the ratings+buyrates and has the good matches whenever he's in that position. And let's not forget, he saved us from the most boring title reign in the history of mankind! For that reason, he deserves to be commanded with ANYTHING he asks for.

THANK YOU ROCKY! ALL HAIL THE ROCK!

:rock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't comprehend how The Roid gets worse and worse every single time he comes through that curtain. It's like he just doesn't give a fuck AT ALL and cares too much about "entertaining as Dwayne Johnson" rather than being the artist formerly known as "The Rock". The WWE are wrapping their lips around his dick and trying to suck the entertainment out and it's fucking ridiculous.

FUCK THE ROID. Ugh I'm so pissed off right now, I'm going to hang out with my girlfriend and hopefully hit up Wal Mart to buy TLC 12 AKA the last PPV where I didn't have to put up with that worthless sack of shit as champion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So much hate for Rocky. I don't get it. Dude may be lazy/coasting, but he's still better than 95% of the roster so fuck it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> So much hate for Rocky. I don't get it. Dude may be lazy/coasting, but he's still better than 95% of the roster so fuck it.


:|

No words here.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Rock has been awful since his return. Literally nothing he's done so far has been good. Besides the first Punk promo and match.

Five wrestlers on the roster I can't stand at the moment. There are quite a bit, but it goes:

1. Ryback. All around probably the worst thing to happen in the WWE in ages.
2. Alberto Del Rio. Garbage performer.
3. Jack Swagger. Boring as fuck, currently lol'ing at his DUI. WEED THE PEOPLE.
4. The Rock.
5. The Miz. 

I would add Ziggler if I didn't love his matches so much.



> So much hate for Rocky. I don't get it. Dude may be lazy/coasting, but he's still better than 95% of the roster so fuck it.


Completely disagree.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Why can't we just have a Wrestlemania with actual storylines and not "____ is back! Throw him with _____"? I understand TEH BUYRATZ and that I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the show if it draws low, but fuck. It's Wrestlemania, this should be where the biggest stories of the year are going down.


^^^Brye is the man.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rock gets no love from me. Thought both of his matches with Punk were disappointingly mediocre and the thing is Punk was good in both of them.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-elimination-chamber-2013-dvd-cover/35392/

Badass cover.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> :|
> 
> No words here.


GIVE ME WORDS



Saint Dick said:


> Rock gets no love from me. Thought both of his matches with Punk were disappointingly mediocre and the thing is Punk was good in both of them.


I don't think he deserves much praise aside from bringing in a few extra viewers, but I also can't see justification for so much hate. I guess I'm in the middle.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I thought Elimination Chamber was the worst of ROCK's matches since returning (tag excluded). Too many restholds kind of killed the first half. The Rumble match was pretty good as was the showdown with Cena. Tag match was fun specially for the crowd. And he's had a few misses, but most of ROCK's promos have been HIT.

4 out of 4 as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Some of the Rock/Punk/Heyman promos and segments were good and got me excited for the matches. Since then it's become obvious that Rock can't work a good match anymore and I have no interest in what he's doing at Wrestlemania so I want him gone.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I used to really dislike Del Rio, now I don't mind him as much. His face turn has been a nice refreshing change and he's coming across as much more natural in the role and the crowd are getting reacting to him for the first time in his career, so that's good. Plus his matches are more enjoyable now that he's implemented new moves into his matches, they're less formulaic now.

And KOK really hates The Rock it seems, I remember reading once that Rock316AE used to red rep you, does that still happen? :lol

And @HayleySabin what's there really to dislike about Langston? He hasn't done anything. I don't mind him as Ziggler's bodyguard, if a bodyguard is what it takes to make Ziggler more credible in the main-event, then I'm all for it. Bodyguard's don't need talent, only a strong presence.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If anything Ziggler's credibility has dropped since Langston showed up. I don't mind him though. He's just there.

Langston running after Ricardo was great.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Langston makes me laugh a bit. I just wish Ziggler wasn't booked like such a jobber. They really haven't booked the last few MITB winners all that well.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ziggler's job at the moment seems to be to make other people look good. Not really fitting for someone who could be world champ soon.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> If anything Ziggler's credibility has dropped since Langston showed up. I don't mind him though. He's just there.
> 
> Langston running after Ricardo was great.


You could say that. Before he got Langston he went over Orton clean on PPV, and beat Cena in the main-event of the PPV, but I attribute that to the typical Ziggler booking, they have him gain momentum, then have him lose it for no reason. WWE doesn't see Ziggler as a top talent, that's why he loses so much, he's a jobber to the stars, but when he wins the World Title he might start to get booked better and Langston could help with that by helping Ziggler retain the title through cheap ways, and make him look like more of a believable threat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> GIVE ME WORDS


ROCK SUCKS. HOW CAN HE BE BETTER THAN MOST OF THE ROSTER? AHHHHH



Nostalgia said:


> And @HayleySabin what's there really to dislike about Langston? He hasn't done anything. I don't mind him as Ziggler's bodyguard, if a bodyguard is what it takes to make Ziggler more credible in the main-event, then I'm all for it. Bodyguard's don't need talent, only a strong presence.


Has to be the worst thing I've seen in the history of the wrestling biz. Everything about him is indescribably piss-poor. His ring work is garbage. He can't even be a decent big man worker. He's so...ugh. The worst. Can't work a mic. Doesn't have any charisma or skills. Yelling 5 over and over doesn't give you charisma. He's zilch there. Who botched saying 20/20? I mean seriously? The sooner this guy dies off my screen on both WWE TV and NXT the sooner I'll go back to actually marking for seeing Ziggler again. He's ruined any joy I got from Ziggler in the past.

My love for Dolph was like a really great sandwich. WWE is a bully. They grabbed my sandwich and decided to put a nice, big dollop of human waste _(Langston)_ on it. Now I don't want to touch it & have zero appetite.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Exactly my point. He does do a pretty good job of making others look good, though. I'll give him that.

edit FUCK


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I assume they'll start making him look strong at some point and he has the ability to pull it off so whatever.

He's been in the two best singles matches this year imo. DOLPH


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I think the Rock has done really well this year. His promos have been intense, relevant to the storyline (except that promo on the EC go-home RAW show) and they've put Punk over. For example, he did say how the long title reign is impressive and he knows how dangerous Punk is. Even after EC, Rock stated how tough CM Punk was. Most of all, he did state how important the title match is to him which again adds relevance and credibility to the WWE title. The only negatives are his matches but to be fair, I'm sure any wrestler would have stamina problems after taking 7 year hiatus. His matches with Punk still have been good though. They've just haven't lived up to the expectations we all wished for.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Has to be the worst thing I've seen in the history of the wrestling biz. Everything about him is indescribably piss-poor. His ring work is garbage. He can't even be a decent big man worker. He's so...ugh. The worst. Can't work a mic. Doesn't have any charisma or skills. Yelling 5 over and over doesn't give you charisma. He's zilch there. Who botched saying 20/20? I mean seriously? The sooner this guy dies off my screen on both WWE TV and NXT the sooner I'll go back to actually marking for seeing Ziggler again. He's ruined any joy I got from Ziggler in the past.


But as simply Ziggler's bodyguard he doesn't need any of that. From what I've seen of him on NXT he isn't good at all, another guy being pushed just for his look, but as a bodyguard? He's ok for me. I actually find AJ more annoying, but as a big Ziggler mark I'll enjoy him no matter who's paired up with him (hell I enjoyed him even when he was paired up with Vickie for years).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what WWE needs again. An ultra dirty heel champ. Wonderful.

It's bad enough Del Rio has to use assistance to win every championship match. This type of booking needs to die.

Langston isn't even good as a bodyguard. Case and point to my previous post. "The worst".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

And ADR is a face :lmao

They're trying to make him into the next Eddie. -------->


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hoodlum ADR is awesome, I don't get the hate at all. Him throwing orange paint at the Big Show was hilarious as was raiding Show's hotel and attacking his car with a baseball bat. :adr


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> That's what WWE needs again. An ultra dirty heel champ. Wonderful.
> 
> It's bad enough Del Rio has to use assistance to win every championship match. This type of booking needs to die.
> 
> Langston isn't even good as a bodyguard. Case and point to my previous post. "The worst".


It's classic heel booking. It supposed to make you boo the guy, even though no one boos Ziggler it seems lol. :side: I don't think WWE are high enough Ziggler to have him go over top talent clean, because they certainly don't book him in a way that shows that they're really high on him.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> That's what WWE needs again. An ultra dirty heel champ. Wonderful.
> 
> It's bad enough Del Rio has to use assistance to win every championship match. This type of booking needs to die.


Agreed, although I don't really mind Del Rio needing assistance to beat Show.

Heels seriously need to win more big matches clean though, and not just people like Henry. The notion that they can't get the job done fairly because they're portraying 'a bad guy' is so stupid.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They were showing promise with Cesaro winning cleanly all the time, now he's losing to a Miz-applied Figure Four.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> And ADR is a face :lmao
> 
> They're trying to make him into the next Eddie. -------->


I love how WWE are systematically making me care less and less for Del Rio as a face when this is something I've wanted since May of 2011. (N)



Nostalgia said:


> It's classic heel booking. It supposed to make you boo the guy, even though no one boos Ziggler it seems lol. :side: I don't think WWE are high enough Ziggler to go over top talent clean, because they certainly don't book him in a way that shows that they're really high on him.


There is a method to the madness though. Flair is the golden example. You can be cowardly at some points. Downright dirty in others. Every match a completely cheap win? That's got to go. No matter who the talent may be, it does zero favors each time. Outside of person dislike for his ring work, I know that is why so many soured or lacked any desire to care about Miz's championship reign. The ultimate fluke wins more often than not. Do believe his only championship win that came semi-clean was vs Lawler at Elimination Chamber. His best match too i'd say. _(Falls Count Anywhere vs Morrison is a tad murky.)_


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> It's classic heel booking. It supposed to make you boo the guy, even though no one boos Ziggler it seems lol. :side: I don't think WWE are high enough Ziggler to have him go over top talent clean, because they certainly don't book him in a way that shows that they're really high on him.


I get that but if a heel is booked properly the fans will boo regardless of how they win their matches. If a heel needs to cheat to get heat then he isn't doing his job right.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Triple H-type heel plz.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H 2000 is a damn good example. If not Austin from 2001 too. They found ways to win that weren't always cheap. _(Even though in the Austin case his best one WAS the cheap victory. Very gaping exception, however.)_ The reactions were a bit of a different story considering the time, yet it is the natural rule of the biz - if a heel is doing his job right, he'll get over.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> There is a method to the madness though. Flair is the golden example. You can be cowardly at some points. Downright dirty in others. Every match a completely cheap win? That's got to go. No matter who the talent may be, it does zero favors each time. Outside of person dislike for his ring work, I know that is why so many soured or lacked any desire to care about Miz's championship reign. The ultimate fluke wins more often than not. Do believe his only championship win that came semi-clean was vs Lawler at Elimination Chamber. His best match too i'd say. _(Falls Count Anywhere vs Morrison is a tad murky.)_


This. No problem with heels getting cheap wins, that's part and parcel of the business. But at some point they need to look good, especially if they're the champion. I get that they were trying to protect Ryback but how was anyone supposed to take Punk defending against The Rock seriously after he needed help from The Shield or Maddox like 3 or 4 title matches in a row?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield is being booked to perfection imo. They get it right sometimes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Punk factor made ZERO sense too. It shows you how WWE decides to book their heels. Punk as a face - clean wins. Punk as a tweener - wins a triple threat. Punk as a heel - goes to a draw with Cena _(fine)_, wins every other championship match via outside interference.

It's a pattern that opens your eyes. Why is the company so fixated on crap booking such as this?

Evolution is no longer a mystery. It's now The Shield. b/c how the booking for them is so pristine, I can't quite figure out. Don't want too. Lets continue to see it roll.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> They were showing promise with Cesaro winning cleanly all the time, now he's losing to a Miz-applied Figure Four.


That made me laugh when I saw it. Cesaro has beating Miz two times prior on PPV, and they let Miz beat Cesaro clean on TV in way that made Cesaro looked weak by having him tap out to Miz's poor attempt to of the Figure Four with little-to-no work on the leg beforehand. 



HayleySabin said:


> There is a method to the madness though. Flair is the golden example. You can be cowardly at some points. Downright dirty in others. *Every match a completely cheap win? That's got to go.* No matter who the talent may be, it does zero favors each time. Outside of person dislike for his ring work, I know that is why so many soured or lacked any desire to care about Miz's championship reign. The ultimate fluke wins more often than not. Do believe his only championship win that came semi-clean was vs Lawler at Elimination Chamber. His best match too i'd say. _(Falls Count Anywhere vs Morrison is a tad murky.)_


I agree there. Not every win should be dirty, your heels need to be credible, but there are times where the heel has to cheat to win otherwise the faces looks bad. WWE book heels badly though, and Ziggler winning his matches cheaply is just what I realistically see. And having a realistic mindset is better than getting my hopes up that Ziggler will suddenly be going over top talent clean. 



The Lady Killer said:


> Triple H-type heel plz.


Not everyone is fortunate to marry the boss's daughter and essentially book themselves for several years in the company.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> That made me laugh when I saw it. Cesaro has beating Miz two times prior on PPV, and they let Miz beat Cesaro clean on TV in way that made Cesaro looked weak by having him tap out to Miz's poor attempt to of the Figure Four with little-to-no work on the leg beforehand.


I probably would've laughed if I wasn't so furious.



GOAT said:


> Not everyone is fortunate to marry the boss's daughter and essentially book themselves for several years in the company.


YOU WATCH YOUR MOUTH.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

At the end of the day the more guys they make look credible the better the feuds, matches and overall product will be.



The Lady Killer said:


> Shield is being booked to perfection imo. They get it right sometimes.


Agreed. Fingers crossed they don't fuck it up. Imagine if they had lost at Elimination Chamber. Would've taken a ton of air out of their sails.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's what I don't get. They have jobbers like Gabriel who is more than capable of putting people over, yet they have their midcarders (Sandow, Rhodes, Barrett) lose to the stars week in and week out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I agree there. Not every win should be dirty, your heels need to be credible, but there are times where the heel has to cheat to win otherwise the faces looks bad. WWE book heels badly though, and Ziggler winning his matches cheaply is just what I realistically see. And having a realistic mindset is better than getting my hopes up that Ziggler will suddenly be going over top talent clean.


Unfortunately, that is correct. WWE's poor booking would force us to lower the standards on what to expect with a heel winning a match these days. Quite frustrating.

Can't we get booking like we did for Flair vs Funk from GAB '89? Flair wins clean. Funk's credibility was never brought into question the moment he lost the match. Wild post match beatdown and brawl showed it was far, far from over. It all seems so simple. Make fans care. The rest will come naturally.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Shield's booking is greatness. Intrigued to what they'll do at Mania.



The Lady Killer said:


> I probably would've laughed if I wasn't so furious.


I laughed because it was something I didn't expect, they've booked Cesaro very strong so far, if they wanted to continue the feud they could of have Miz beat Cesaro with a surprise roll-up or something, but instead they make him tap out which as I said, makes him look weak, probably because they want to put over Miz's new Figure Four finisher as a big deal. That and, I'm not a fan of either guy so it doesn't bother me. I don't like The Miz at all, and Cesaro's ok with me, I'm not a fan yet, but I know there's lots of Cesaro fans here who probably hated seeing him tap out to The Miz of all people, can't imagine what the live RAW discussion thread was like at the time, lol.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Just heard about Swagger GETTIN' GOT!

Has his gimmick and WrestleMania spot been pulled then or is there a chance he could ride the storm and continue on, I hope so as I actually have a lot of time for the gimmick and as I said prior it would be a really good opener for Mania. 

:rock Again the Rock hate is funny, im guessing the hate for The Rock from the same people was the same during his best years or you probably weren't watching and feel "_whose this fuck! and why does everyone love him! he hasn't got one 4 star match since he's been back_" I don't think he's got bigger in terms of size since WrestleMania 28 but his ring work and general everything he does isn't on point of being *THE ROCK* we saw from 99 to 2004 but I agree with *TLK* that he's still so much ahead of 90% of the roster.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao 

yeah, b/c nobody can have a logical justification for disliking The Rock.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't get red repped by Rock316AE anymore because I'm pretty sure he sent his Roid dickriding cronies to do it for him, I don't even know where these guys are coming from anymore to be honest :lol.

NO... I never liked The Rock EVER because I felt his material was childish and his in ring work left a ton to be desired during his original run. I definitely didn't HATE him though, and I understood his appeal to the audience at times despite being a pretty shitty worker.... But atleast then he could actually do SOMETHING if put with a good opponent due to his athletic prowess and quick, hard hitting style. Fuck, he had an all time CLASSIC IRONMAN match once upon a time... But that was THE ROCK.

I never wanted him back but I never cared if he came back for a one off match or hatever like he was going to do with Cena, and as a matter of fact I don't think his match with Cena was that bad. The feud made me into a Cena fan (which should have been impossible) due to how GOD AWFUL Rock's promo work was at the time. Alas, the match was okay for what it was and I assumed that I would only have to see him every now and then for an appearance but OH SHIT HE'S CHALLENGING FOR THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP. That pissed me off because all the WWE's long term main event planning over the past few years revolved around Rock. No matter WHO broke out and became it star it wouldn't have mattered because ROCK was going to main event regardless.

So alright, I'm thinking "Punk could get a good match out of The Rock" until GOOD GOD. The Rock comes back earlier this year with about 50 more pounds of muscle packed on since he had to bulk up for Hercules. He comes out, can barely fucking move without needing an oxygen mask, and proceeds to cut promos about cookiepuss and crackheads. "The Rock" as everybody knew him was dead, and from the ashes rose "The Roid" ; an uninspired, roided up catchphrase machine. He no longer had the ability to work a match or do ANYTHING worth watching.... Hell the shit he was doing during the Punk feud at times made the Cena feud feel like GOD. I expected Punk to be good in those matches and I definitely feel he carried his weight but GOOD GOD... Rock was never Terry Funk but "The Roid" has in ring talent the likes of RYBACK, maybe even worse.

What pisses me off most about The Roid ? The fact that he's so damn charismatic. He has such a natural presence about him, and do you know why this pisses me off ? Instead of using his charisma and talents to give us compelling television and storylines, he chooses to engage in his fucking foolish Cookiepuss NONSENSE that only appeals to the lowest common denominator, insulting my intelligence in the process. I mean, are ALL wrestling fans this retarded ? He has cut some of the WORST promos I've ever seen and they're still over because of WHO HE IS, not what he's doing. The fact that he pulls shit like not hyping Elimination Chamber and opting to tell pointless stories about crackheads is so fucking ridiculous and it makes CENA'S worst promos look like Ric fucking Flair in his prime.

It's not about The Roid being WWE champion as much as it is about A SHITTY FUCKING WRESTLER BEING WWE CHAMPION. I'm THRILLED that The Roid's not going to be here for half the Wrestlemania build as I might actually be entertained, but I'm embarrassed at the same time because I love a wrestling company that goes out and mortgages it's fucking future for three years and gives a big "FUCK YOU" to everybody that works hard day in and day out to get better, while The Roid does nothing but REGRESS day after day SOMEHOW (I don't even think it's possible). Sorry for actually wanting COMPELLING TELEVISION instead of this immature bullshit that insults my intelligence everytime I tune in.

It's going to be the happiest day I've ever had as a wrestling fan when The Roid fucking retires and never wrestles again so I don't have to see him embarrass himself on national fucking television. I'm excited that in his career he'll probably appear less than 20 times for the remainder of it, and I'm looking forward to marking the fuck out when I realize I never have to see that walking steroid "wrestle" ever again.

HOW CAN ANYBODY ENJOY HIM ? 

PS: If I ever disappear for more than 3 days, assume that I've been banned again due to talking shit about everybody's favorite "entertainer".


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

So I just picked up Edge's "A Decade of Decadence" DVD and WrestleMania XX at my local Suncoast today for a total of about $10. Did Edge's DVD not come with one of those slips that lists the matches/segments or did I just get fucked over? Not a big deal, but I just like the simple convenience of knowing what's on each disc. What a crazy concept.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I didn't receive one either. Thought it was only me.

Good set. One of my personal favorites.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

KingOfKings spitting that mo'fucking truth!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know what ? Fuck it. He's going to be here for 3 RAWs, Mania, and that's it. I'm going to pretend Cena's the champion from now on.

I literally have one match left to watch in my Wrestlemania project and that's Rock vs Cena, so my top 50 should pretty much be set now. Might post 50-46 tonight and see how that goes from there.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Rock has been coasting since he returned in '11. Not that I blame him. He doesn't have to do or say anything and all the sheep will lap it up. Wrestles a shit match = it was amazing and the best thing ever. Rambles on for 15 minutes, accomplishing nothing = most entertaining promo of all time.

I was a HUGE Rock mark as a kid. That was a LONG time ago. Back when he was trying, back when he _could_ have a good match. I still try to enjoy his work but it becomes increasingly difficult when he accomplishes nothing more than sucking crowd dick. He relies on his immense CHARISMA way too much and adds nothing of substance unless he's forced to.

I can probably count on one hand the GREAT promos he's cut since returning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

El Cuñado said:


> Rock has been coasting since he returned in '11. Not that I blame him. He doesn't have to do or say anything and all the sheep will lap it up. Wrestles a shit match = it was amazing and the best thing ever. Rambles on for 15 minutes, accomplishing nothing = most entertaining promo of all time.
> 
> I was a HUGE Rock mark as a kid. That was a LONG time ago. Back when he was trying, back when he _could_ have a good match. I still try to enjoy his work but it becomes increasingly difficult when he accomplishes nothing more than sucking crowd dick. He relies on his immense CHARISMA way too much and adds nothing of substance unless he's forced to.
> 
> I can probably count on one hand the GREAT promos he's cut since returning.


Sounds about right. Outside of myself being a huge fan. I've always enjoyed him growing up. Got to love when you say you don't enjoy Rock since his 2011 return you get the same two insults hurled at you: "you're too young to know who he is" or "you must have always hated him. you're dumb yada yada yada".

When most of the time that is far from the truth. I like Rock. Well, I guess liked would be more appropriate. He's doing nothing for me now and I can't stand his matches. That's all there is to it. If i'm going to watch something from 2000 and he is involved, my opinion will not change if I liked it prior.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> I didn't receive one either. Thought it was only me.
> 
> Good set. One of my personal favorites.


Ok, good. I do vaguely remember reading about how DVD's released at that time didn't have those slips. I just found it weird that it came with a pocket for one. It is what it is I suppose. Looking forward to checking it out.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Chiller88 said:


> Ok, good. I do vaguely remember reading about how DVD's released at that time didn't have those slips. I just found it weird that it came with a pocket for one. It is what it is I suppose. Looking forward to checking it out.


I didn't get a paper match listing with that DVD, either. Must have been a cost-cutting measure. _"No more paper match listings in those damn DVDs!"_ :vince5


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Indeed. I still enjoy a lot of what The Rock did back in the day. In fact, I'm often surprised by how much I still enjoy his glory days. I just can't enjoy most of what he's doing right now. 

I was the kid in the Brahma Bull shirt (with my Stone Cold hunting cap).


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Rock saying 'cookiepuss' is no different when Punk said 'toolbox' or 'clownshows' as insults. This is 2013 where babyfaces will say things that are cheesy and appeal mostly to kids. Rock just has that aura, delivery and charisma that makes him over with the fans. Also, it's unfair to say his first promo with Punk sucked just because he said cookie puss. What about when he sold Punk as a legit threat or when he clearly stated the importance and relevance of the WWE title? His intensity is something that WWE have missed. As for his 'crackhead story', fair enough. I can't defend that lol. It had some funny moments but for a go home show, it wasn't good enough. At least he did well on Smackdown (the same week) and actually hyped his rematch with Punk so kudos to him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I also gotta say that I don't like being labeled a "sheep" because I dare enjoy what he's been doing since his return. Sure, it's nowhere near the quality of his work a decade+ ago but I'd still take it over pretty much anything the roster has to offer.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I also gotta say that I don't like being labeled a "sheep" because I dare enjoy what he's been doing since his return. Sure, it's nowhere near the quality of his work a decade+ ago but I'd still take it over pretty much anything the roster has to offer.


I understand you're not Punks biggest fan and you're obviously a Rock fan but surely you can't think Rock has been better on the microphone since he's been back than CM Punk?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Chiller88 said:


> So I just picked up Edge's "A Decade of Decadence" DVD and WrestleMania XX at my local Suncoast today for a total of about $10. Did Edge's DVD not come with one of those slips that lists the matches/segments or did I just get fucked over? Not a big deal, but I just like the simple convenience of knowing what's on each disc. What a crazy concept.


I have that DVD and it did come with a match list.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> I also gotta say that I don't like being labeled a "sheep" because I dare enjoy what he's been doing since his return. Sure, it's nowhere near the quality of his work a decade+ ago but I'd still take it over pretty much anything the roster has to offer.


I wasn't trying to suggest that every current Rock fan is a sheep. 

I was more specifically referencing those that really don't seem to have a second thought after "OMG THE ROCK IS THE BESTEST THING EVER AND HE'S NEVER BEEN BETTER AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE HIM NOW IT'S BECAUSE YOU SUCK OR YOU'RE A HATER".


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just had an epiphany about The Roid, dead serious. I was trying to figure out what was the main underlying reason why I don't like him and I think I found it ; he's NOT a wrestler, he's a celebrity. THAT is why he gets the belt and THAT is why he gets special perks over everybody else on the roster, because the celebrity NEVER loses. Rock "THE WRESTLER" never got Wrestlemania over a million buys two years in a row, it was Rock the mainstream star, and nothing else. 

Rock headlining EVERYTHING is nothing more than another attempt from Vince to look legitimate in the eyes of the mainstream media. Ever since Rock came back it's like the whole culture of the company changed from "HBK-Taker stealing the show" to "TWITTER! TOUT! THE MOST ELECTRIFYING MAN IN SHOWBIZ!". Wrestlemania XXVII and XXVIII both suffer from this syndrome of WWE trying to be more mainstream, and it really shows.

So PLEASE Rock marks, even if you're using the horrible, HORRIBLE "draw/ratings" argument to compare who the greatest WRESTLER of all time is, don't use anything Rock has done post 2003 as criteria. It wasn't John Cena "The Wrestler" vs The Rock "The Wrestler" that sold Wrestlemania, it was John Cena "The Wrestler" vs The Rock "The Movie Star" that broke the record for most PPV buys. OH, and it was still dull as shit.

The Rock attracting fans to the WWE is no different then Donald Trump attracting fans and breaking the record in 2007 ; they're both NOT wrestlers and they're both mainstream. So yes, obviously Steve Austin vs CM Punk wouldn't draw as well as John Cena vs The Rock ; Steve Austin is a wrestler, The Rock isn't.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*El Cuñado*: I understand. I admit not everything ROCK has done did I like. For instance, I wasn't really into his most recent ROCK Concert at all. And him yapping about crackheads did nothing for me either. And all "cookie puss" did was remind me of that Beastie Boys recording before they broke out. (random, I know)



Cookie Monster said:


> I understand you're not Punks biggest fan and you're obviously a Rock fan but surely you can't think Rock has been better on the microphone since he's been back than CM Punk?


I don't care enough to judge Punk's work on the mic. I skipped majority of his talking segments with The ROCK and just listened to ROCK's parts. But from what I've actually listened to, I don't see the big deal. Just a bunch of whining. He's got good delivery but it's hard to be impressed when I simply don't care.

I mean this forum blew their load over "Your arms are too short to box with God" but I fail to see what was so ZOMGAWZUM about it. I've heard that line a thousand times before. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the people here actually thought Punk came up with it himself.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> So PLEASE Rock marks, even if you're using the horrible, HORRIBLE "draw/ratings" argument to compare who the greatest WRESTLER of all time is, don't use anything Rock has done post 2003 as criteria. It wasn't John Cena "The Wrestler" vs The Rock "The Wrestler" that sold Wrestlemania, it was John Cena "The Wrestler" vs The Rock "The Movie Star" that broke the record for most PPV buys. OH, and it was still dull as shit.


 I'm not one of those fans that think ratings = quality but are you trying to say Rock pre 2003 wasn't a big draw and that he never broke records?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Some of his jokes & insults border on cringeworthy and i didn't like the recent "you're a boy I'm a man" promo nor most of that concert.
At least he's not trying to trend anymore.

His matches with Punk i have at RR***1/2 and EC***.

With me i don't try to explain myself to fanboys as they make it apparent that when it comes to their favorites varying opinions don't exist. what's funny is when one comes to a conclusion as to why people don't like their favorites.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock is the third biggest draw in WWE history and I don't think anybody can dispute that. It's just when Rock marks use the fact that Wrestlemania XXVII and XXVIII both went over a million buys to suggest that Rock > Hogan/Austin makes me :lol . HE'S A MAINSTREAM FUCKING CELEBRITY, OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WATCH.

He's not a wrestler, plain and simple. He's a part time celebrity who Vince can put the belt on and get away with it because he's a FORMER wrestling star.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Rock is the third biggest draw in WWE history and I don't think anybody can dispute that. It's just when Rock marks use the fact that Wrestlemania XXVII and XXVIII both went over a million buys to suggest that Rock > Hogan/Austin makes me :lol . HE'S A MAINSTREAM FUCKING CELEBRITY, OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WATCH.
> 
> He's not a wrestler, plain and simple. He's a part time celebrity who Vince can put the belt on and get away with it because he's a FORMER wrestling star.


 Rock and Dwayne Johnson are the same :rock4

But to be serious, I understand why he gets criticised. Watching Rock in AE and watching Rock 2011-present is like watching two completely different people. This Rock is less arrogant, thanks the crowd more often and sounds more cheesy.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Rock and Dwayne Johnson are the same :rock4
> 
> But to be serious, I understand why he gets criticised. Watching Rock in AE and watching Rock 2011-present is like watching two completely different people. This Rock is less arrogant,* thanks the crowd more often and sounds more cheesy.*


Gee, who does that sound like? :cena4

Seriously, WWE writers and Vince like their faces cheesy as hell these days. Just the way it is. Appeals to the kids more. And that's all that matters to Vince, obviously.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

YOUR ARMS ARE TOO SHORT TO BOX WITH GOD

:mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> YOUR ARMS ARE TOO SHORT TO BOX WITH GOD
> 
> :mark:


OH MY GAWD! WHAT AN AMAZING LINE! MAN, SO FUCKING AWESOME! PUNK TOLD DAT RAWKY WHO'S DA BOSS WITH DAT LINE!!!! CM PUNK! CM PUNK! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! GREATEST LINE OF ALL THE MOTHER FUCKING TIMES!!!!! OH, AND IT WAS SO FUCKING CREATIVE BECAUSE PUNK CAME UP WITH IT ALL BY HIMSELF AS NOBODY ELSE COULD POSSIBLY THINK OF SUCH A GENIUS LINE! CM PUNK!!!!!!!

Hi, Choke2death.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> OH MY GAWD! WHAT AN AMAZING LINE! MAN, SO FUCKING AWESOME! PUNK TOLD DAT RAWKY WHO'S DA BOSS WITH DAT LINE!!!! CM PUNK! CM PUNK! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! GREATEST LINE OF ALL THE MOTHER FUCKING TIMES!!!!! OH, AND IT WAS SO FUCKING CREATIVE BECAUSE PUNK CAME UP WITH IT ALL BY HIMSELF AND NOBODY ELSE COULD POSSIBLY THINK OF SUCH A GENIUS LINE! CM PUNK!!!!!!!


^ Perfect example of the deluded mind of the average Indy Midget fan. unk2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Pipe Bomb unk2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> ^ Perfect example of the deluded mind of the average Indy Midget fan. unk2


Come on man, we all know you like Punk. I understand you haven't been watching Raw since he stopped calling John Laurinaitis a tool-box and stopped pandering to the crowd and being your cookie-cutter PG babyface, but we know the truth.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Choke2Death*, you hate Jeff Hardy too right ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> *Choke2Death*, you hate Jeff Hardy too right ?


Nah, I'm pretty much indifferent to him. I give him credit when it's due and if he does something worth criticizing, then the same will happen.

My question to this is: what brought this on? :jeff


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hmm, I can't help but think of Tyrion Lannister every time Jeff Hardy and the word 'hate' are in the same sentence.

What if Tyrion and Choke2Death are the same person :russo


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Jeff Hardy is one of the best babyfaces in the business today. Maybe of the last five years.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Clique said:


> Jeff Hardy is one of the best babyfaces in the business today. Maybe of the last five years.


More like one of the best babyfaces of *all time*.

Love him or hate him, you gotta admit it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'll admit it because I'm a fan. Jeff Hardy does a great job taking a beating in a match, selling very well in his face-in-peril segments, and building excitement with his signature moves and big spots. He has the history of performances and matches to prove it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jeff Hardy is definitely one of the best faces ever. He has that sort of charisma that not many possess. I've heard his mic skills as a heel have been better, though. I would love to see some of it as what little I've seen of his mic work as a face has been horrible.



Oliver-94 said:


> What if Tyrion and Choke2Death are the same person :russo


How would that be? Other than Orton and Punk, our opinions aren't _all_ that opposites.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*KingOfKings Top 50 Matches in Wrestlemania History : 50-46*

50. _"OH MY GOD! THE THIRD TOMBSTONE!"_










The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV) : **** 1/2*


49. _"You better start training, saying your prayers, and eating your vitamins"_










Hulk Hogan vs Vince Mcmahon (Street Fight ; Wrestlemania XIX) : **** 1/2* 


48. _"STONE COLD HAS REACHED THE TOP ONCE AGAIN!"_










WWE Championship - The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XV) : **** 1/2*


47. _"Happy BIRTHDAY dear Aaliyah"_










CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (If Mysterio loses he must join the SES ; Wrestlemania XXVI) : **** 1/2*


46. _"The Diving Headbutt! Benoit's GOT IT!"_










United States Championship : Chris Benoit(c) vs MVP : **** 1/2* 


So it begins. A ton of people are going to hate the fact that I included both the Hogan-McMahon match and especially the Austin-Rock match on this list so low, but it is what it is. This isn't your conventional "HOGAN-ANDRE TOP 10 LOL" list, so this should be one of the more different Top WHATEVER Mania lists you'll ever see. The next five are going to feature an Icon's first Wrestlemania MOTN, a battle between an American and a Canadian (X2  ), a match with a result that shocked the shit out of me, and finally an underrated gem from the PG era.

*The List So Far

50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV)
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX)
48. The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XV)
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI)
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII)* 
​


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> How would that be? Other than Orton and Punk, our opinions aren't _all_ that opposites.


 :lol I was just joking. Of course you're not the same person.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great start KOK, I'm interested to see how the rest of the list goes. Glad Benoit/MVP made it. You've even rated it higher than I would and that's fine by me. Is that like the only match he ever won with the Headbutt?



Oliver-94 said:


> :lol I was just joking. Of course you're not the same person.


I know, I'm just saying what would make you think this type of "lolswerve"? It's not the "ROCK316 is secretly CM Punk" type of deal, so it was just out of nowhere is all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Definitely don't think Austin/Rock is too low. Shit, I've never seen anything in the match that makes me think it's a top 50 anything.

I forgot Rey dressed like that stupid looking shitty alien thing on that PPV. Awesome, awesome match though. Definitely my favourite on that show.

"The list so far" might need spoiler tags eventually.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Benoit's second worst Mania match too. I LOVED the fact that he on with the headbutt because the way the story was going it would have made no sense for him to win with the crossface. I can name literally like 10 things on this list that's going to make a few people say I'm a fucking idiot :lol .

I have no idea why I asked you if you were a Hardy fan. Maybe something to do with the whole PUNK thing .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Great start KOK, I'm interested to see how the rest of the list goes. Glad Benoit/MVP made it. You've even rated it higher than I would and that's fine by me. Is that like the only match he ever won with the Headbutt?
> 
> 
> 
> I know, I'm just saying what would make you think this type of "lolswerve"? It's not the "ROCK316 is secretly CM Punk" type of deal, so it was just out of nowhere is all.


 It was pretty random I guess, lol. 

:agree:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit's second worst match at WM? It has 16 & 22 beat in a landslide. :hmm:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I TOTALLY FUCKED THAT UP. I forgot about 2000. That's his worst and won't be on this list, there's also another that won't be on there, that almost made it but I forgot to add something so it's now 51 :lol :lol .

Doing up scores for MR. WRESTLEMANIA NOW. Wanna have all my lists ready to go, rewatching this shit was so much fucking fun, can't wait to do it for the rest of the big 4 . FEEL FREE to throw out your ratings of all the matches I list when I list them btw, I'm interested in seeing just how ridiculous my list is going to look :lol .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good, b/c the WM 16 three way is bleh.

Only one I wouldn't have probably slapped on it might have been Austin vs Rock. Maybe. I recall it being solid. Maybe I could have found a few more to round out the list instead of it. I know Taka Michinoku vs Agulia from WM 14 has it beat.

I'll only get CRITICAL when I see Michaels vs Angle show up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

STARZZZZ THOUGH !?!?!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Kane ~ ***1/4

Hogan vs McMahon ~ ***3/4

Austin vs Rock ~ idk, been too long.

Punker vs Mysterio ~ ***1/2

Benoit vs MVP ~ ***1/2

So according to the mark-ups, our opinions are close minus the one I need to give another whirl on. It's the match from 15 I never seem to remember. That can't be good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Looking at my list there's like two things I KNOW you're going to fucking hate.

One of them being in the top 10, so enjoy the list while you can :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I doubt you'll get any venom from me, unlike the crap I gave my buddy for his list. It is what it is. But, Michaels vs Angle stinks. :hayley3

_(that's my guess although I should probably lean over into the Trips bracket.)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm legitimately surprised at some of these people who are outside the top 2 in the competition for "Mr. Wrestlemania". Seriously, it's really fucked when I looked at the ratings and added shit up, still not done yet.

There's the top two, and then there's everybody else. Seriously, one or two guys kind of come into the same stratosphere, but NO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I take it you're putting only via the rating to form this assessment, yes? Hmm. Well, it all differs on the opinion, but I have quite a few names running through my head as to pulling out consistently strong matches at WrestleMania's. So, maybe it isn't as cut and dry as one could think? Not sure. Never really pondered it this way. I've always slated it to be Undertaker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm talking match ratings yeah.. The guys who go out and are involved in the greatest matches on the biggest stage. When it comes to the ratings and scores I got ;

1 guy over 80
1 guy over 70
1 guy over 60
1 guy over 40
... Then there's a fuckload of guys in the 20-30 range. The guy who is above 40 and above the rest of the guys you'd figure to be above him is kind of REALLY unexpected. I know it's all just my opinion but DAMN I really didn't expect that one .

When it comes to strictly moments and who entertained you the most without over complicating things with STARZ, I'd argue that Bobby Heenan is my favorite performer ever, no joke. I always fucking LOVED that weasel mother fucker :lol .


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Great start KOK my top 29 wrestlemania match list should be up in a week, I'm doing write ups of each match as well. 

Ratings: 

Undertaker vs Kane : **** 1/4*
Hogan vs McMahon : **** 1/4*
Rock vs Austin I : **** 1/2*
Mysterio vs Punk : **** 1/2*
Benoit vs MVP : **** 1/4*


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I wish I had enough fortitude to sit through 28 Wrestlemanias like you guys


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Alim said:


> I wish I had enough fortitude to sit through 28 Wrestlemanias like you guys


At times it was really tough, especially during the majority of the early Manias. So much garbage of those shows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dig the early Mania's. Especially V & VIII.

VII almost has to go without saying. Excellent event.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer I'm with you I dug V, VII & VIII

All the rest really were quite mediocre apart from a few matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker vs Kane : ****
Hogan vs McMahon : **
Rock vs Austin I : ***
Mysterio vs Punk : ***1/2
Benoit vs MVP : ***


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched this match recently for the first time in ages, thought id upload it for peeps who may want it:

*HHH/Cactus Jack - Street Fight - Royal Rumble 2000

This is the unedited Tagged Classic version, complete with WWF logo and sayings:*

https://hotfile.com/dl/195400523/33afa1c/Triple-H_vs_Cactus_Jack_-_RR2000.avi.html

(Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Undertaker vs Kane : ****
Hogan vs McMahon : ***
Rock vs Austin I : ***1/2
Mysterio vs Punk : ***1/2
Benoit vs MVP : ***1/2

Great start KOK. Only slightly less-than-minor change from me so far (based on the matches you listed at this point) would be Taker/Kane should be quite a bit higher. 

Still though, great looking list so far.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Watched this match recently for the first time in ages, thought id upload it for peeps who may want it:
> 
> *HHH/Cactus Jack - Street Fight - Royal Rumble 2000
> 
> ...


One of the greatest matches ever, in my top 10. In my humble opinion it's the most rewatchable match ever, if I had to watch one match for the rest of my life it would be it. So fun to watch the game and mick destroy each other in the garden.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Always like your lists KOK (Y)

Undertaker vs Kane : *** 1/2
Hogan vs McMahon : *** 1/2
Rock vs Austin I : *** 1/2
Mysterio vs Punk : *** 1/2
Benoit vs MVP : *** 1/4


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Benoit vs. Angle at the Royal Rumble- ★★★★½ 

Not a GOAT match, but a DAMN good match nontheless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*KingOfKings Top 50 Matches in Wrestlemania History : 45-41*

45. _"JBL's got the ropes, COME ON!"_










US Championship - Chris Benoit(c) vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII) : **** 1/2*


44. _"Diesel is NOT AFRAID"_










The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII) : **** 1/2*


43. _"Triple H has the Crossface locked in! Will Cena tap out?"_










WWE Championship - Randy Orton(c) vs Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXIV) : **** 1/2*


42. _"The Houston faithful looking to see a technical classic"_










Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7) : **** 3/4*


41. _"Obviously Rey is trying to gain an advantage with that knee brace"_










Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII) : **** 3/4*



Yeah, so nothing controversial yet I would imagine. I'm a huge fan of the stiffness of Benoit-JBL and it ultimately edges out Benoit-MVP by a small, small margin. I'm sure Angle-Benoit and the triple threat might spit some people but I was a huge fan of both. Taker-Diesel is The Undertaker's "forgotten" great Wrestlemania match that nobody talks about., while Mysterio and Rhodes stole the show early, but it didn't last long because in the next five there's another two PG Era Mania matches, and three iconic matches that some would perhaps place in their top 10s. A LITTLE controversy later perhaps, we'll see.

*The List So Far*

50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV)
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX)
48. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV)
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI)
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII)
45. Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII)
44. The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII)
43. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXIV)
42. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7)
41. Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII)​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Kane is too low . Hogan/Vince is far too high (it sucks teh poopy) . Nice to see some love for Disel/Taker. Surprise surprise I like it more still though lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7)*

This is one match i have to say i rather dislike, just goes nowhere for me, seems to be from what i remember Angle going for the ankle lock the whole time (was that a certain stip-type of the match), just falls completley flat, hard to rate it above ** tbh.

Havnt seen the RR2003 match i dont think (unless i have forgot it lol).


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Thought Benoit/JBL was solid at best . ***


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Man, from Wrestlemania XXI all the way to XXVI, they all just seem to blur together. I can remember when the unorthodox matches happened (Bret vs. Vince for example) but I could in no way tell you who headlined WM XXII for example. Guess that's what happens when you take a break from wrasslin'.

So what's the best order to check them out in?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV) - ★★★¼
Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX) - ★★★½
Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV) - ★★★¾
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI) - ★★★¼
Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII) - ★★★½
Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII) - ★★★¼
The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII) - N/A
Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ★★★★
Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7) - ★★★½
Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII) - ★★★¼

Other than the triple threat being too low, it's mostly on point.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gee Cal it's almost like you're an Undertaker Mark or something ......

We're entering a new era of Wrestlemania events it seems. Every since The Rock's return @ XXVII it's like they've been trying to turn Wrestlemania back into that early "spectacle" event making it part wrestling, part entertainment, and part extravaganza with things like concerts and such that they took out of Mania for XXVI which almost at this point seems to be the perfect Wrestlemania in terms of booking and such. Even the intros for the last two years were very, VERY mainstream and "entertainment" centric. Vince is trying way too fucking hard to be mainstream, and the sad thing is that it's actually attracting more viewers as XXVII and XXVIII made much more money than a superior event like XXVI.

Just goes to show that when you appeal to the lowest common denominator that good things will happen financially.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV) - ****
Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX) - ***3/4
Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV) - ***3/4
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI) - ***1/2
Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII) - ***1/2
Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII) - ***
The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII) - *** (could be a bit more as im a big Taker mark lol)
Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ****
Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7) - **
Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII) ***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a mean mark for Mean Mark.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Wrestlemania is just one long big media campaign for the WWE now with added matches as bonuses. It's just four hours of 'we're Hollywood! we're great! everything else sucks! suck our razzly dazzly cocks!'.

Sad thing is, Monday Night Raw is slowly turning into the same thing.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV) - It's been too long since i've seen it :$
Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX) - ***
Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV) - ***1/4
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI) - ***1/4
Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII) - ***3/4 (MVP mark )
Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII) - ***1/2
The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII) - ***1/4
Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXIV) - **3/4 (Very disappointing, NOC triple threat is much better)
Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7) - can't remember
Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII) ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The last two Wrestlemanias have been so fucking unimpressive. That should change this year with BROCK and PUNK being in two separate matches that tear shit up. Last year's Mania was a complete two match show with nothing else really going out of your way to see. I SUPPOSE if you really wanted to you could watch Rock vs Cena, especially if that match up attracts you for some reason, but other than that there's essentially nothing. 

XXVII has 8 matches, four of them being terrible, one being average, two being GREAT, and one being EPIC. I seriously hope XXIX tries to do SOMETHING other than perform auto-fellatio.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Can someone link me the full match to Benoit/Angle's best match (which from what I hear is the one from.. The RR 2001 or 2002, don't remember what year)?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Last year's Mania was truly a two match show, but what a great two matches! One is Taker/HHH obviously, the other is ROCK/Cena. Jericho/Punk and Kane/Orton were both good but the rest completely forgettable.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Benoit/Angle is 03.

& I truly believe Jericho/Punk was much better than Rock/Cena.

Watching 2009 Smackdown, fuck they blew Raw out of the water all year. The promo between Edge and Cena on the eve of Backlash was great and actually got me a little pumped to see their LMS match (Which is good, not great) and we've got Mysterio, Jericho, Hardy, Benjamin, Taker at times ohhhhh :mark:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

They could have had a classic with Bryan/Sheamus but they didn't have time on a 4 hour show.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Bryan/Sheamus went on to have a MOTYC at Extreme Rules, probably as a giant "Fuck you" to Vince. Such a shame, because had Sheamus/Bryan been an actual match and Rock/Cena been better, WrestleMania XXVIII could've made a strong candidate to be one of the GOAT Manias.

Dat Flo Rida concert and Brodus Clay segment though :no:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He knows I meant Jericho/Punk and HHH/Taker :lol .

Picked up the Best of Raw and Smackdown 2012 on DVD yesterday and I just started watching... Starts off with Kane squashing Zack Ryder for 15 minutes. I always love these sets and I expect this to be no exception, especially since the next match is Punk vs Bryan. WHY ISN'T THE FIRST HENRY-PUNK MATCH ON THIS ? FUCK !

I forgot how brilliant Jericho's comeback was in 2012. Alot of people gave him shit, but that was pure fucking genius.

You could argue that The Wrestlemania XXVIII match got Daniel Bryan WAY more over than Sheamus and that it was one of the worst attempted burials ever. In a matter of shows Sheamus was stuck defending the title on the third match of the show while Bryan was in the WWE Championship picture. Of course they needed to bury Bryan even more and try and deflect all of his buzz onto AJ. FUCK THIS COMPANY .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Only real gripe I have with KOK's list so far is the Mania 24 Triple Threat. Never liked it that much. Rather forgettable match with no structure, random spots, & random submissions. I do like the finish though. ** 1/2 - ** 3/4. It's pretty much overshadowed by a huge margin to the other two main events on that show.

EDIT: *KOK*, I expect ratings for that RAW/SD set. Need to know if it's worth owning or not. 2011's version OWNED.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Floyd Mayweather > The Roid.

Seriously though, fuck the pre match shit before Rock-Cena. Combining the pre match video package, mini concerts/entrances, the match itself, and the post-match shit, it's like AN HOUR LONG. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. I'm convinced their Wrestlemania match is going to be Miz-Cena standards by now honestly .

EDIT : Oh I'm reviewing the fuck out of this because the 2011 set is one of my favorite DVDs like... EVER. I LOVE the fact that they put Raw and Smackdown on the same "Best Of" DVD as there's not alot of shit on it and everything's usually good. I didn't even look at the match listing for this DVD and I'm just seeing what it gives me. I'm a huge fan of these DVDs though and I'm fucking pumped to watch this and relive the greatest championship reign of all time .


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

What do yall rate Jericho/Punk from WM 28?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I actually got the Rock/Cena DVD for Christmas 

It's the same sentences for over 45 minutes and disc 2 and 3 have all the shitty promos and i think MIZ/CENA is on there too 8*D

Fuck Rock/Cena II @ WM 29

EDIT: 
Punk/Jericho WM: ****1/4
Punk/Jericho ER: ***1/2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2, not as good as their match from ER


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> What do yall rate Jericho/Punk from WM 28?


****1/2

Easy MOTN for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> What do yall rate Jericho/Punk from WM 28?


**** 1/4. Haven't seen it since it aired but I highly doubt it'll change all that much. I really enjoyed Mania 28 for the most part. Orton/Kane was good, End of an Era & Punk/Jericho were excellent, & Rock/Cena was better than expected. Don't remember the big tag match being that bad either & Show/Cody was a fun squash.

Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules is a high ****. Two fuckin awesome matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Jericho from Mania is excellent. Much better than the match at Extreme Rules.

Just watched Shield/Super Friends from Elimination Chamber for the second time. It held up perfectly. In fact I'd say I liked it more this time. The Shield is the best thing going right now. Reigns in particular had a star making performance but they all looked fantastic as a collective group. I also think it's worth mentioning that this is the best Cena's looked in a while. The heat segment on him was really great stuff and he did what he does best - taking a beating and working from the bottom. Ryback deserves praise for his contribution too. He didn't have a whole lot to do but he looked good in that short burst off the hot tag. MOTY so far. About to re-watch the 6 man from Raw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM 28 was good. Only negative was the opener. Divas doesn't count b/c who expected that shit to be good.

Went back to see KOK's WM list continued to grow. :mark: @ Rhodes vs Mysterio making it. AWESOME match.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Seriously though, Mania 28 had SO much potential to be the GOAT Mania going in. It was still a good show, but man, DAT POTENTIAL makes me sad


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Here's something hilarious ; My girlfriend bought me Wrestlemania XXVII for my birthday in 2011 because she knew how much I adored HHH-Taker and how I NEEDED to own in. In 2012 what DVD did she purchase me ? THE ROCK VS FUCKING JOHN CENA, which also includes Miz vs Cena. So she bought me Miz vs Cena @ Wrestlemania XXVII fucking TWICE.

I can't complain, over the past 2 years she's bought me like 12 DVDs I think, some of them actually being GOOD like the Jericho and Ladder Match DVDs. Of course she also bought me Capitol Punishment and Over The Limit, so there you go :lol. OMG ANOTHER MIZ CENA MATCH THAT BITCH HATES ME.

The match of the night @ Wrestlemania XXVIII is such an easy choice for me compared to some other Manias. Just finished watching the Punk-Bryan match on the 2012 set and since I forgot the finish I was legit pissed that it could have went into four star territory with a proper one. COMING UP NEXT? WADE BARRETT VS RANDY ORTON IN A NO DQ MATCH ... FUUUUUUUCCCCCCK!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Jericho WM28... MOTN ****1/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I have such low expectations about this years Mania that if anything decent happens i'll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Wrestlemania 28 I'll go with

Sheamus/Bryan: *

Kane/Orton: ***

Big show/cody: **

Undertaker/HHH: ****

Team Johnny vs long: **

Punk/Jericho: ****1/2

Rock/cena:.***1/2 

Overall I give this mania a 7/10. Pretty good IMO and I believe this featured rocks best match since his return.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It was The Roid's best match since he came back in the sense that the other three were GOD AWFUL.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone else out there not have ANY Wrestlemania dvds besides me? I've had some in the past but ended up selling them. The reason is, all the marquee matches get released on other sets and there's really no point in owning the actual show. For instance:

19 - This is one I'd consider actually owning since Trips/Booker is nowhere else and I don't have Brock/Angle on dvd' but at the same time Michaels/Jericho has been released a bunch, as has Rock/Austin.

20 - The main event is on Benoit's dvd, Evolution match is on Orton's, and both Christian/Jericho & Angle/Eddie are very good matches but not enough to make me wanna own it.

21- Everything you could want from this besides Orton/Taker I already have on dvd. 

22 - Cena/HHH is the only reason I'd want this. Not enough. Edge/Foley and the 3 way are all over the place, not sure about MITB though. Probably own it somewhere.

23 - PLEASE FOR THE LOVE Of GOD RELEASE CENA/HBK SOMEWHERE. Sorry about that...  MITB and Taker/Batista are in my collection.

24 - Edge/Taker, Michaels/Flair, MITB & the 3 way are on sets.

25 - Michaels/Taker & MITB.. That's literally it. Have it.

26 - Own the triple main event & I think MITB. Done.

27 - They whored the fuck outta this show. Rey/Cody, Punk/Orton, & Taker/HHH are all over the place.

28 - Once I get the Best PPV Matches of 2012, that's all I'll need. Already have Punk/Jericho on Punk's set.

So yeah, explains it all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

btw, I didn't watch Main Event last night. Without spoiling, what are the matches on the show?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WrestleMania XXVIII

Bryan/Sheamus - DUD (Maybe the WORST open to a WrestleMania EVER)
Orton/Kane - ** 1/2
Cody/Big Show - *
Divas - 1/4*
End Of An Era - **** 1/2
12-Man Tag - ** 
Punk/Jericho - **** 1/4
Rock/Cena - *** 1/2 (I've rated it down a for the middle portion dragging a bit but the start, closing stretch, and especially the finish are almost picture perfect).


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

WM 28

Sheamus/Bryan - DUD
Kane/Orton - **
Big Show/Cody - *1/2
Undertaker/HHH - ****
Tag Match - **
Punk/Jericho ****1/4
Rock/Cena ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Main Event is Big Show Mania, isn't it ? I thought Big Show had like 3 matches on it... Or did I just dream that shit :lol?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> btw, I didn't watch Main Event last night. Without spoiling, what are the matches on the show?


Big Show in a Gauntlet Match and Justin Gabriel vs. Titus O'Neil.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't believe I have to watch a Wade Barrett-Randy Orton NO DQ match.... Does anybody know if it's above mediocre ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Main Event is Big Show Mania, isn't it ? I thought Big Show had like 3 matches on it... Or did I just dream that shit :lol?


Use specifics b/c I'm SO lost right now. :hmm:

Wait, Clique to the rescue. Gabriel vs Titus II on tap. As long as it gives me Titus on the mic again, I'll be happy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WM 28

Sheamus/Bryan - DUD (thank fuck we got ER to make up for this Vince brainfart moment)
Kane/Orton - **1/2 (quite enjoyed this and the ER rematch)
Big Show/Cody - *1/2 (agree on this as i cant stand Show (sorry guys)
Undertaker/HHH - ****3/4 (Yep, that fucking high)
Tag Match - ** (cant remember lol)
Punk/Jericho ****1/4 (love this and the ER match, which id probably rate a tad higher)
Rock/Cena **3/4 (watched it twice, just hate large portions of it, but the finishing stretch is decent enough)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 28:

HIAC - ****3/4
Punk/Jericho - ****1/2

Nothing Else Matters [/Metallica]


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sheamus-Bryan IS the worst opening to a Wrestlemania ever, coming from somebody who just watched every single Wrestlemania in order. Just the fact that Wrestlemania XXVIII featured so much nonsense like those mini concerts and that fucking Brodus Cay segment but couldn't spare 12-15 minutes for a potential four star opening to your biggest show of the year ?

That fact ALONE destroys me inside .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Really need to watch Jericho/Punk again. Only saw it once, which was when I was watching the event. Don't really remember much outside of the dead crowd for the first half of the match. HHH/Taker =


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)*
Really good match. I can see why some people like it more than the 6 man at Elimination Chamber, personally I prefer the one with Cena quite comfortably but that's not to say this wasn't very good. I liked how The Shield were able to recognize danger - first with Sheamus setting up for the Brogue and then when Ryback had Rollins up for his finisher - and avoid it. Ambrose's sell after eating the Brogue was great, Shield teamwork was again great, and Ryback looked good off the hot tag here too. One problem I had though, and I'm echoing Cal's thoughts here, they made Reigns look like an absolute beast the night before and then made him look fairly ordinary here. I guess they want to emphasis that The Shield is all about the collective and they don't rely on one guy, and it was good that Rollins hit the decisive move for the win because he's come off as the weakest of the group so far. 3 out of 3 for The Shield. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a segment that eats up time like the Clay dancing which makes you very annoyed to see the treatment Sheamus vs Danielson received. So they wanted to create the shortest match in WM history. Couldn't even do that right. It was off by like 8 seconds.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought Wrestlemania XXVIII was terrible when I first saw it. I felt that Rock/Cena, Punk/Jericho, and Taker/GAME were all incredibly overrated with the "mainstream" atmosphere being downright horrendous for the event. I changed my mind on the first part with a rewatch of course, in which I only think TWO of those three matches are overrated, although two of them make my list .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KOK I hope Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show makes your Wrestlemania list. That was the best celebrity wrestling match of all time. All time! Even better than Rock/Cena.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Alim said:


> KOK I hope Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show makes your Wrestlemania list. That was the best celebrity wrestling match of all time. All time! Even better than Rock/Cena.




that's taking it too far


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OHHHHH I'm not sure if it makes the list of not, but yes it is most definitely superior in every way to Rock-Cena besides DAT FINISH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alim said:


> KOK I hope Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show makes your Wrestlemania list. That was the best celebrity wrestling match of all time. All time! Even better than Rock/Cena.


The truth. Its in this post.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Show/Mayweather was fucking awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DAMN. Just got the promo from John Cena leading into his match against The Rock when he just fucking BURIES Dwayne. I mean GOD DAMN I remember watching that promo at the time and thinking it was one of the best things that Cena ever did in terms of promo work and I probably would be right. Was it "Your arms are just too short to box with GOD" levels ? Nope, but that's because whenever Cena is in the RING with The Roid they both fucking suck. (PS: The Promo I'm referring too is from the 20/2/12 edition of RAW)

When The Roid isn't there and Cena's cutting promos on him ? GOLD. When it comes to face to face shit though, Punk pretty much destroys everybody lately.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

In fact I think I'm going to watch that match right now. BRB :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just spent the last 30 minutes rewatching Jericho/Punk from Mania 28 after all the talk here and because it's just been a damn long time since I saw it (only once during the show). Took a bit of time to get going, though. I found one in perfect quality in dailymotion but those motherfuckers have to upload it with some other language over the commentary so I was forced to play the YouTube uploads that have the sound in background and time it with the DM video for full enjoyment. Have been forced to do it a few other times such as when watching HHH/Cena at WM22 DVD version since most others are split or bad quality. (and because of edited out chants which bother me a bit)

*CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII)*
- I remember the hilarious storyline with Punk's "personal demons" being explored and it's strange that this is when I started turning on Punk and was fully supportive of Jericho. Pre-match, John Laurinaitis approaches Punk after celebrating with his team and tells him that if he gets disqualified, the title goes to Jericho. What follows is Punk with one of the worst examples of acting as he tries his hardest to sell the anger of this stipulation. Match starts off with a test of strength of sorts and basic wrestling holds but then the pre-match stipulation comes into play as Jericho taunts Punk continuously in attempts of getting him disqualified. Punk almost goes there numerous times but manages to hold his anger and not flip out which leads to Jericho changing focus. After that, Jericho starts taking control and works on Punk's back starting off with a great Vertical Suplex to the outside. For the majority of the middle portion, they switch it up and it's an even match-up with both taking control and just doing their best at having a plain wrestling match and it's pretty good. Crowd is not really alive for this but not quite as bothersome as I remember it being. But one thing I completely forgot about is Punk's back. They suddenly forget about it (as did I) until Jericho locks in the Walls after which Punk remembers to sell it followed by one of his poor Suicide Dives. The end of the match is great as they switch submissions with counter after counter until Punk makes Jericho submit to the Anaconda Vice. I personally hate the finish but it's not enough to ruin the match for me. And another problem with the submissions counters is the fact that the Walls and Vice cannot transition as smoothly with each other as some other holds. For instance, say Jericho's opponent has the Crossface as their finisher. The counters would be a lot more epic and smoother. But still, it was a job well done by both men and I'm bumping this up a little because it's as good as I remember it being and then some. ★★★★

Not better than the "top two" of this Mania, but it joins the elite group in being a great match followed by a distant Orton/Kane that I rate as "good". The rest of the show can fuck off, though.



KingOfKings said:


> I can't believe I have to watch a Wade Barrett-Randy Orton NO DQ match.... Does anybody know if it's above mediocre ?


As a vocal hater of their shitty series, I can assure you that their no DQ matches (if they had more than one) aren't as bad as the rest, so there's some hope.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show is greatest. He made a match with Floyd Mayweather good all by himself. You want to talk talent, look no further than right there.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

If we are talking about RTWM promos Jericho/Punk is the best of WM 28.


On top swimming with Sharks while you're dancing with stars :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Atleast Floyd is a conditioned athlete who can fucking MOVE. With all of this talk of The Roid staying until Extreme Rules I'm SO pissed that I have to suffer through four Roid main events on PPV in a row.

Thankfully he's only going to be around for three more RAWs before Mania so I only have to skip three of his horrendous attempts to "ENTERTAIN AND ELECTRIFY".


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

BANKSY said:


> If we are talking about RTWM promos Jericho/Punk is the best of WM 28.
> 
> 
> On top swimming with Sharks while you're dancing with stars :mark:




you can't be serious..... Their build was AWFUL..... Punks shitty promos as a face along with going along pretending to be drunk..... absolutely terrible


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, Rock is staying 'til ER? I thought he was leaving right after WM? I rarely go to wrestling news sites anymore, so this is the first I'm hearing of this. I don't see the point in him staying. Another match with Cena? Gah.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Maybe we'll get a Triple Threat Match at ER, then?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> you can't be serious..... Their build was AWFUL..... Punks shitty promos as a face along with going along pretending to be drunk..... absolutely terrible







This is shit


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Sit down and enjoy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Big Show is greatest. He made a match with Floyd Mayweather good all by himself. You want to talk talent, look no further than right there.


The funniest thing is Undertaker burying him on one of his few interviews. He said something about how Show has all the talent but is too lazy.



KingOfKings said:


> Atleast Floyd is a conditioned athlete who can fucking MOVE. With all of this talk of The Roid staying until Extreme Rules I'm SO pissed that I have to suffer through four Roid main events on PPV in a row.


If you people think my Punk bashing was bad, this bitter PHIListine makes it pale in comparison. 

But of course only I get shit for it because I had the nerve to target the god of smarks. Not fair at all. 

Oh and ROCK is staying until ER? YES! YES! FUCK YES! :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Roid is HORRENDOUS. The only good news out of this is that I get to see him job to Cena twice instead of just once.

:cena2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rock needs to fuck off and go back and make GI Joe 3 and Fast and Furious 7.

Oh and Tooth Fairy 2.

Hoping we get the final blow off match between Punk/Cena @ Extreme Rules. The HIAC match we were meant to get but LMS or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch as Extreme Rules might be the triple threat match for the WWE Championship.

8*D


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

It's a small miracle Rock hasn't torn a hammy yet. Usually when you are that big and moving around, it's alot easier to tear a hammy. That being said he's still got a match before he leaves, maybe 2 if he stays until ER. fpalm


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This is seriously the worst the company has been in a long fucking time for me. I can't even talk about it anymore it makes me so upset....

Anyways. Punk-Jericho feud ? Great shit, Jericho was on his fucking grind when he came back and still had this mystique around him before he became JOBBER-cho. I love the fact that he's actually willing to put over young talent, it's not like he needs to be put over anymore ffs he's been around for ages and a bunch of losses won't hurt him. Why is this so hard to comprehend for some guys ?

There's like three matches in my top 10 Mania matches ever that some would find questionable, two of them being REALLY questionable for most I would assume .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

IF we do get Cena/Roid III at ER, maybe that will dilute the possibility of it happening at WM30.................doubt it though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

If Rock is really staying for Extreme rules then I expect him to lose against Cena at WM and then he will lose in a triple threat match at ER. 

At least I got to see Rock as WWE champion though so I don't mind him jobbing two PPVs in a row :rock


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys can you see a future for the WWE? I mean at the moment they really have no one who can give them big sells in the next years if Cena, Punk, or Orton retire


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Ever Wolf said:


> Hoping we get the final blow off match between Punk/Cena @ Extreme Rules. The HIAC match we were meant to get but LMS or something.


I want the final blow off between Cena/Punk in Chicago this June. It would play well with the story started at Money In The Bank in 2011.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

In a perfect world, ROCK would beat Cena at WM29 and then job to Orton at Extreme Rules. :rock4 rton2

Oh and ROCK shouldn't leave, he should stay as much as possible. It's funny how the hypocrites whine when he's not around "BUT HE SAID HE WAS NEVER LEAVING?" and then when he's actually sticking around "FUCK OFF ROID!!!". (not necessarily aimed at this thread but the ****** try-hards around the rest of this forum)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Who is this "ROCK" character you speak of ?

Anyways, Cena and Punk have a ton of places to go seeing as how they've never had a singe fucking gimmick match. I'd love to see a Orton-Cena type feud with them (except it would actually be GOOD) with like 2 or 3 gimmick matches in a row (with both guys trading the title back and forth, Cena's going to break Flair's record anyways so it's not like it matters) with a final blowoff HIAC match or some shit like that, something really violent that ends the feud for a few years. The only problem is that the WWE is so devoid in talent that they're ALWAYS going to have to milk the proverbial Punk-Cena cow in order to generate compelling feuds.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, new topic b/c it's bad enough shit like this has plagued the forum elsewhere.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Ok, new topic b/c it's bad enough shit like this has plagued the forum elsewhere.


Nah, I say we go 2000 pages (for those who use 10 posts per page) before the new topic. Bad shit always happens here but it always gets back in control.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope.

Favorite tag team matches. gogogogo


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Nope.
> 
> Favorite tag team matches. gogogogo


Sting/Luger vs Steiners SuperBrawl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bam Bam & Tatanka Vs 123 Kid & Bob Holly - RR 95
Diesel & HBK Vs Razor & 123 Kid - Action Zone 94
Bret & Bulldog Vs Owen & Neidhart - 2 of them in 94. One of them (the best one I believe) is a bluray extra on the new Bret Hart set :mark:.

Tons more of course. Too fecking lazy to post them though .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It may be from a different country, but idc.






A more modern day refresher course on why Tenryu could be the GOAT. MANLY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One of my faves as a kid, still is  Demolition/Hart Foundation (Summerslam 1988)

Quite a few from WCW too that i cant think of right now, plus the obvious WWF/E ones like Benoit/Jericho vs Two Man Power Trip and the No Mercy 2002 tag


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE FUCKING GAME/Steve Austin vs Benoit/Jericho (RAW 2001)
Bret Hart/Owen Hart vs The Steiner Brothers (Wrestlefest 1994)
Owen Hart/Bulldog vs HBK/Austin (RAW 1997)
THE FUCKING GAME/HBK vs Orton/Edge (NYR 2007)
Cena/HBK vs Taker/Batista (NWO 2007)

:mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

ARN & Pillman vs. Sting & FLAIR - Halloween Havoc 95

Flair's work on the apron in that match and when he was finally tagged in :lol > all


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is one from WCW that i remember people bigging up - Flair/Sting vs Muta/Funk, i dont remember it myself (i remember the Thundercage match involving the four (i think lol)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Los ****** Locos vs El Hijo Del Santo & Octagon from When World's Collide is another brilliant affair.

Hardys vs MNM from Royal Rumble '07 deserves love too. It's tremendous tag team work by both.

:lol @ Clique's choice. 

What a SHAM that situation turned out to be.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hogan/Tenryu vs The Road Warriors . LOD's best match .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of MNM, I remember really liking one of their matches against Batista and Mysterio. No idea which.

MNM (Y)


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That reminds me Flair/Sting vs. Muta/Slater and Flair/Windham vs. Midnight Express are great too.

Flair was a great tag worker in those traditional and six man tags with the Horsemen. He was awesome in the Evolution tags too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is the Backlash 01 tag match any good? I've seen KOK praise it before but never been able to find it in full anywhere uploaded. I did find a link a few days ago but it wasn't working. And I'm not gonna download the full PPV just for one match.

And speaking of MNM, I'm a fan of their cage match with Batista & Rey. Mizark failing to open the cage was just :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. The match I must own the set for. Forgot about it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best tag matches?

Morton & Gilbert vs Fuchi & Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) (9/4/81)
Mantell & King Cobra vs Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar (7/19/82)
Steamboat & Youngblood vs Slaughter & Kernodle (3/12/83)
Fabulous Ones vs The Moondogs (Stretcher Match) (5/2/83)
Rock n Roll Express & Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (6/8/84)
Lawler & Mantel vs Dundee & Landel (3/10/86)
Fantastics vs Midnight Express (4/26/88)
Steamboat & Gilbert vs Flair & Windham (1/21/89)
Rockers vs Brainbusters (1/23/89)
Rockers vs Brainbusters Boston Garden (3/18/89)

Flair & Sting vs Muta & Slater (9/12/89)
Rockers vs Powers of Pain (1/15/90)
Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express (2/25/90)
Southern Boys vs Midnight Express (7/7/90)
Arn & Windham vs Doom (12/16/90)
Rockers vs Orient Express (1/19/91)
Steamboat & Rhodes vs Arn & Zbyszko (11/19/91)
Rhodes & Windham vs Austin & Zvyszko (2/29/92)
Steamboat & Douglas vs Pillman & Windham (12/28/92)

Steamboat, Rhodes & Koloff vs Anderson, Zbyszko & Eaton (5/23/92)
Williams & Gordy vs The Steiners (6/16/92)
Hollywood Blondes vs Bagwell & Scorpio (5/8/93)
Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne vs The Nasty Boys (4/17/94)
HBK & Diesel vs 1-2-3 Kid & Razor Ramon (10/30/94)
Vader & Arn vs Stars n' Stripes (4/15/95)
Flair & Arn vs Hogan & Savage (1/8/96)
Eddie & Jericho vs Faces of Fear (2/24/97)
HBK & Austin vs Owen & Bulldog (5/26/97)
Austin & HHH vs Jericho & Benoit (5/21/01)
Eddie & Tajiri vs Team Angle (5/22/03)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Windham/Luger Vs Arn/Tully when they win the tag belts is pretty swank. Crowd is MOLTEN, as a certain drunk would say. Match where Windham turns on Luger is great too IIRC.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HBK/Benoit/Benjamin/Foley v HHH/Flair/Batista/Orton - Raw 4/12/04
Orton/Benoit/Benjamin v HHH/Flair/Batista - Raw 9/20/04 

:mark:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Big Show vs. Floyd 'Money' Mayweather - Wrestlemania XXIV*

Right off the bat, I'm going to start off by saying this is one of my favorite matches ever. I mark for Big Show so there is some bias involved, but 'Money' Mayweather is a beast as well. Everything in this match just goes so smoothly. The build up started at No Way Out where Big Show made his return and attacked Rey Mysterio, but Floyd came to Mysterio's aid and broke Show's nose. Show then challenged Mayweather to a No DQ match at Wrestlemania which he accepted. Throughout the weeks to Wrestlemania, there was slow and gradual double turn. Mayweather started off as a face and went into Mania as a heel and vice versa for the Big Show. 

I really enjoyed the pyro at Wrestlemania 24. The show was held outdoors so they had more freedom to do what they want, so basically everyone had pyro for their entrance to give this show a real 'big time' feel. 

Floyd Mayweather is a boxer as we all know, but who would have thought that this guy would make such a great heel? In his entrance he comes out with his posse and doesn't say a word. All he does is walk and pose with money falling from the sky above him. It's funny because even though he is a non-wrestler, Mayweather would probably be the #2 heel right now in the WWE behind CM Punk. Now the question is, does that show how good Mayweather is, or how bad the current product is? A mix of both, I'd say.

Onto the match itself, I was surprised with the bumps that Floyd took. Nothing too extreme, but Show did get some pretty impactful moves in. Shoutout to the posse. They bumped like champs and really put over Big Show as a monster. 

Even though Mayweather wasn't a wrestler, there really wasn't ever a dull moment in this match where it seemed slow. Even at the beginning, where they are staring each other down and doing the whole feeling up process, it seemed believable. JR did a great job on commentary putting Mayweather over as a threat as well.

The ending comes where one of Mayweather's boys comes into the ring with a chair to attack Show, but eats a chokeslam. Mayweather capitalizes and starts going after Show with the chair with a few shots to the head too. Show is down and Floyd grabs a chain around the guy's neck which has brass knuckles and clocks Show right in the jaw to knock him out. 

All in all, like I said, this is one of my favorite matches ever. It gets better every time I watched it. I used to have it at ***1/2. Sure, it's not a 20 minute chain wrestling classic, but it was entertaining as hell and in my eyes is the best celebrity wrestling match ever. 

*Rating: *****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Show/Mayweather is great. Better than anything Rock has done since his return.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Also the 2/22/92 8 man tag from WCW is excellent. As is 6/14/04 Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Orton, Flair & Batista. The Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7/00 is also amazing.

Nice review Alim, Mayweather vs Show is indeed a great example of how to work a compelling marquee match and make it into a great match in its own right. Helps that Mayweather was a natural performer throughout his career and thus knew how to feed and work off of a crowd and react to any environment.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I loved Show/Mayweather, especially how pleasantly surprised I was by it. It was highly entertaining.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Mayweather/Show is *** tops from me... but it's probably the best celebrity match ever in WWE, and much better than I ever thought it could be. Don't think it was great by normal standards. Good though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thought you had a Rock/Punk match @ ****+* ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just a bump incase anyone in here needs/wants it: (watched it recently, still fucking love it so thought id up it here)

*Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Street Fight - Royal Rumble 2000)*

This is the unedited Tagged Classic version, complete with WWF logo etc:

https://hotfile.com/dl/195400523/33afa1c/Triple-H_vs_Cactus_Jack_-_RR2000.avi.html


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Thought you had a Rock/Punk match @ ****+* ?


I see what you did there. For you KingofKings, I'll rephrase...

... best match involving a guy who was never officially a member of a wrestling roster.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank You .

Hell to me would probably be watching Orton-Barrett matches for the rest of eternity, no joke.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 4 out of the way, thank fuck. Took me two days to watch. So many matches. So much shit. 16 matches, 3 worth sitting through. None of them are the main event. LOL.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Steamboat-Valentine is the MOTN .

Legit surprised they didn't go with Savage-Steamboat again, as that actually would have been GOOD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> Steamboat-Valentine is the MOTN .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Either that or Roberts/Rude, which Meltzer gave negative stars.

Then again seeing as how your such a BEEFCAKE fan, it's probably one of the worst Mania matches ever in Brutus vs Honkytonk :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Best tag matches?
> 
> Morton & Gilbert vs Fuchi & Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) (9/4/81)
> Mantell & King Cobra vs Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar (7/19/82)
> ...


So much, so so much :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Roberts/Rude


Yeah, i remember that fued from when i was a kid, cant remember the match lol (probably havnt watched it since the fucking 90's), but i remember a bit about the build, didnt Rude try and 'pick up' Roberts' missus lol in the crowd.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Roberts/Rude feud was the first thing I remember about pro wrestling as a kid. Such gold.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, looks like the early Manias are truly awful. Don't think I'll ever go anywhere close them except to watch a few matches like Flair/Savage and Hogan/Warrior.

I find RUN DMC's concert at WM V more interesting than most of these 15 five minute matches cards. THE KINGS OF ROCK!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 matches into WM 5. Only watched 2. Says it all really :lmao.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd kinda like to sit down and watch all the Manias in order too. Sounds like a neat project.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's pretty dull so far tbh . But I wanna get them done for my BLOG~! and my videos for my WM special and shit.

Yes TLK, I have a blog. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! YOU SHALL NOT BE CORRUPTED LIKE THE REST OF THEM!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would be interested to read your Mania BLOG~! write-up.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Jerry Lawler & Jeff Jarrett vs Moondogs, Concession Stand Brawl, USWA, (1/17/92)*






Oh man, this was such an awesome dirty fight and I loved every second of it. Folks might take issue with there not being too much selling, but I personally loved the way guys would immediately shrug off an object being launched in their direction in order to get some more of the enemy. Felt like a chaotic and out of control war where the participants just wanted to punch and draw blood and no pain would be enough to keep them down for long. Great punches and bumps by all men involved and some truly nasty spots, such as Lawler attempting to smash a glass over the head of a Moondog, attempting to drown him in a sink and just launching cans of coke and bins with no remorse right at their heads. Jarrett is pretty much in the background for the most part and when the camera cuts to him his left shoulder and back have some nasty cuts all over and it just puts over the entire ordeal. The Moondogs are such awesome surly bastards and this is no exception. They're not athletes but they're perfect in this environment where they can just punch the shit out of your heroes and bleed like pigs whilst their fat stomachs tell the story of bar regulars who view working out as taking away time they could be rough housing some innocent bloke in a rundown bar in Memphis. Anarchy, great punches and bumps, some really subtle but fine Lawler selling of a Moondog punch and the only thing missing was the absence of Lance Russell to really sell this bloodbath. This was certainly tickety-boo.



*Jerry Lawler & Jeff Jarrett vs Moondogs, USWA (1/25/92)*





 




Amazing match which manages to surpass the efforts in the first encounter. Harrowingly violent war with some incredible bumps and feats of brutality. Opening is insane with one of the Moondogs taking a disgusting back bump over the rope onto the apron at a horrifying angle and when one of the Moondogs goes to cheapshot Lawler he gets absolutely nuked face first with a chair thrown 100mph by Jarrett coming out of picture and it looks like it should have led to a concussion. Far too many bumps and visually impressive moments to describe, but Lawler launching a bin right into the neck of one of the Moondogs, a wooden table being thrown straight into the face of another Moondog by Jarrett and Jarrett getting the bone thrusted straight into his throat stood out by far. Some emphatic and brutal chair shots to both Lawler and Jarrett and there's a particularly nasty looking guardrail bump late in the match on the outside. 

Lawler sells terrificly and has a great comeback before the match breaks down into a free for all with referees getting slaughtered as they have the audacity to try and intervene and restore a sense of moralty into this disgusting affair. A fireball to the ever infuriating Richard Lee at the end by Lawler is still arguably only a top 3 moment in the match in terms of violence. Moondogs continue to excel in this seedy back alley environment with some hideous punches, a willingness to take frightening and horrific bumps and just creating this enamouring presence whenever they're on screen. Even the guys from Deliverance wouldn't want to fuck with these chaps. Again this match was without doubt tickety-boo.


----------



## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

I still need to watch mania:
1
2 
5 
6 (besides hogan/warrior), 
7 
26 (besides taker/hbk) 
27 (besides Taker/HHH)

I'm thinking of getting WM 2 out of the way since I want to experience it's awfulness.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That's an awesome cover for the Mickster.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Arnold Tricky said:


>


I'm so going to pick this up. I fucking love Mick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> 5 matches into WM 5. Only watched 2. Says it all really :lmao.


Nah, that show is too much fun. Although, I would advise skipping Demolition vs Powers of Pain & Mr. Fuji. Now that one was disappointing. Dusty needed to be on commentary - CLUBBERIN.

Foley's DVD cover. Absolutely brilliant.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

On the topic of great tag matches, here's a few other random ones that I don't think were mentioned that I remember really enjoying:

The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (GAB '88)
Austin & Flair vs. Sting & Steamboat (WCW Saturday Night 7/30/94)
World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Mysterio & Kidman (Smackdown 8/14/03) still think I'm the only person that's seen this, probably better than their Vengeance match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So glad I own the Flair & Austin vs Sting & Steamboat tag. Love it so much.

I watched that Smackdown match after you pimped it. As far as comparing goes, I may need to refresh my memory to decide.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> On the topic of great tag matches, here's a few other random ones that I don't think were mentioned that I remember really enjoying:
> 
> The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (GAB '88)
> *Austin & Flair vs. Sting & Steamboat (WCW Saturday Night 7/30/94)*
> World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Mysterio & Kidman (Smackdown 8/14/03) still think I'm the only person that's seen this, probably better than their Vengeance match.


I love this match. Good wrestling on TV every week on a Saturday night or Sunday evening were the best and I sort of miss that. 

I have to also mention Sting/Steamboat vs. Rude/Austin from one of the COTCs in 92.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Naturally most tags during the early 90's of WCW should be mentioned.

Most meaning all that didn't include Paul Roma.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> So glad I own the Flair & Austin vs Sting & Steamboat tag. Love it so much.
> 
> I watched that Smackdown match after you pimped it. As far as comparing goes, I may need to refresh my memory to decide.


Nice! Glad to see someone actually listened.  Believe I have both at **** but the SD match edges out the other due to better structure and the fucking awesome finishing sequence.



Clique said:


> I love this match. Good wrestling on TV every week on a Saturday night or Sunday evening were the best and I sort of miss that.
> 
> I have to also mention Sting/Steamboat vs. Rude/Austin from one of the COTCs in 92.


Wish I was old enough to remember those days...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Nice! Glad to see someone actually listened.  Believe I have both at **** but the SD match edges out the other due to better structure and the fucking awesome finishing sequence.


Hard to believe once upon a time Charlie Haas was in well structured matches. Blows my mind now. :sabin


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, looking at what's happened to both of them will always be a mystery. Shelton was fucking awful in ROH...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shelton showed he was terrible even before departing with WWE. He managed to have an awful, awful match with Christian in 2009 of all years. In a LADDER match on PPV no less. 

A mystery to how he lost his talent is an understatement. Irony of all of this being, his 6 minute match vs Tanaka this year from Wrestle Kingdom damn near beat everything he did in latter WWE/ROH.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shelton probably lost motivation because WWE dropped the ball with him. So much unused potential...

Any thoughts on his match with Triple H from Smackdown in 2008? Khali interferes in the end IIRC. Thought that's a very good match but not on par with their 2004 Raw match when Shelton won by roll-up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol @ the lack of motivation shtick again.

Guy was horrible on the indies too. He has nothing there now; unless in a sub-ten minute format with the right opponent.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> lol @ the lack of motivation shtick again.
> 
> Guy was horrible on the indies too. He has nothing there now; unless in a sub-ten minute format with the right opponent.


Why do you hate it? It's pretty much true because what else could've happened? He magically lost his talent? Losing motivation may not be an excuse, but it's clearly an explanation.

And if he regressed towards the end in WWE, I see no reason as to why the indies would give him that spark to get better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Why do you hate it? It's pretty much true because what else could've happened? He magically lost his talent? Losing motivation may not be an excuse, but it's clearly an explanation.
> 
> *And if he regressed towards the end in WWE, I see no reason as to why the indies would give him that spark to get better*.


It's a comment as dense as that which prompts me to not even try and respond.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*KingOfKings Top 50 Matches in Wrestlemania History : 40-36*

40. _"Batista doesn't kiss babies"_










WWE Championship - Batista(c) vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI) : **** 3/4*


39. _"Look at the work CM Punk's doing to that leg"_










Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Wrestlemania XXVII) : **** 3/4*


38. _"We'll never see Tyson and Ali, we'll never see Babe Rute and Barry Bonds, but we are gonna see the Rock and the Hulk"_










The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania X-8) : **** 3/4*


37. _"Hogan drops the leg! 1-2 and NO!"_










WWE Championship vs IC Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs The Ultimate Warrior(c) (Wrestlemania VI) : **** 3/4*


36. _I'm sorry.... I love you"_










Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania XXIV) : **** 3/4* 


A few BIG TIME matches this time in Hogan-Warrior, Rock-Hogan, and of course HBK-Flair that may spark some discussion of just how retarded I really am. Alot of matches have tried to mimic Hogan-Warrior's main event "clash of the titans" style but none ever seemed to match it (not even Rock-Cena), while I feel Rock-Hogan blew me away with who was actually in the match and what was taking place during it. Flair-HBK is an emotional ride from Flair hitting his move off the top rope reminiscent of Flair-Race from Starrcade 83 and though while the finish may be a little corny I'll always love the subtle little things it takes from Flair's career and incorporates into the match.

The PG era matches speak for themselves ; Batista-Cena almost fits that Hogan-Warrior mold as the clash of the titans with Cena directing this match all the way, a brilliant performance by him in a brilliant feud. The Punk-Orton match may be a headscratcher for some but I felt the leg work was tremendous, tremendous stuff with Orton selling it perfectly. It was just an example of two super talented guys going out there and giving a hell of a performance and I commend the shit out of them for being able to do it under those circumstances (Punk hating his position in the company, you could learn something from this RANDALL).

The next five, which I may throw out in a few hours or when I wake up tomorrow, will feature three matches known for it's signature spots, and two ruthless agression era Wrestlemania matches that are often forgotten by most casual audiences. We break the FOUR STAR barrier as well, fantastic shit.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First real differences we have from this selection: Cena vs Batista was solid at best & Hogan vs Warrior should be higher.

HOGAN VS WARRIOR


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FUCKING HOGAN VS. WARRIOR, MAN!

:no:

**** 1/2

Enjoy the Orton/Punk love though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Batista/Cena and Punk/Orton (Y)

Personally I'd have Flair/Michaels higher but it's been a while since I saw it.



Choke2Death said:


> Shelton probably lost motivation because WWE dropped the ball with him. So much unused potential...
> 
> Any thoughts on his match with Triple H from Smackdown in 2008? Khali interferes in the end IIRC. Thought that's a very good match but not on par with their 2004 Raw match when Shelton won by roll-up.


The HHH match in '08 is good. He had a decent series with Taker that year too. HHH/Shelton from '04 is great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just wait until we get to 25-21.

There's actually two matches out of those five in which I _KNOW_ you hate them, and one I'm _ASSUMING_ you hate based off of the style of the match and who's in it :lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Once again, great job KOK even though ROCK-Hogan is far too low IMO.

Batista vs John Cena - ★★★½
Randy Orton vs CM Punk - ★★★½
The ROCK vs Hulk Hogan - ★★★★¼
Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior - N/A
Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair - ★★★½



HayleySabin said:


> It's a comment as dense as that which prompts me to not even try and respond.


Again, I'm not making excuses for him, I'm just giving an explanation as for why what happened may have happened.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The ROCK is actually a ballin' Wrestlemania performer, no joke.

Seems like we're within a half star range for most of these matches, ERRYBODY WANNA THROW OUT DEM SNOWFLAKES OR WHAT :mark: ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Just wait until we get to 25-21.
> 
> There's actually two matches out of those five in which I _KNOW_ you hate them, and one I'm _ASSUMING_ you hate based off of the style of the match and who's in it :lol.


Got me thinking. It won't have Big E. Langston or Abdullah The Butcher in it, so I wonder who is this character involved that I have given off the vibe I dislike. :hmm:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Guess the three matches, I dare you. I'm going to say TBHAYLEY no matter what in response to it so it doesn't give anything away .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hogan/Warrior just might be in my Top 10. Definitely Top 15 WrestleMania matches ever. As a small child I was absolutely in awe of those two clashing against each other. I was the Hogan fan and my brother was the Warrior fan. GREAT times

It's matches like Hogan/Warrior, Savage/Warrior, Rock/Hogan, and Flair/Michaels where ratings will probably never do them justice. Those are more than just two guys in the ring performing moves on each other.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The ROCK is actually a ballin' Wrestlemania performer, no joke.


 You said in the other thread you only have 11 matches rated 5 stars. Out of curiosity, is The Rock in one of those 11 matches for you?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed, those matches have some of my favorite moments ever in them ranging from the epic Hulk Up in Rock-Hogan (which is perhaps the greatest moment in Wrestlemania History, gives me GOOSEBUMPS every time I witness it honestly), to Flair hitting that crossbody off the top rope... You can't put a rating on some of these matches for the sheer moments they give to us and it's hard to do some of these matches justice honestly. SAVAGE-WARRIOR though..... We might be seeing that on this list a little later, who knows .

A few of my favorite moments stem from matches that aren't on this list, but a majority of them are on here honestly. I'm doing a top 10 favorite Wrestlemania moments list a few lists after this one because there's just so much you can do with WRESTLE-FUCKIN'-MANIA.

EDIT : I currently don't have any Rock matches at ******* and to be honest I don't think I ever did. I legitimately LOVE a ton of his matches though, and the fact that I don't have any five star Rock matches isn't a slight against him because there's SO many other guys who I don't have a match at five stars for that are some of the best workers ever like well.. I can't give anything away. 

My all-time list BADLY needs to be updated, but I have 5 or 6 Rock matches in my top 100 for sure.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Clique said:


> Hogan/Warrior just might be in my Top 10. Definitely Top 15 WrestleMania matches ever. As a small child I was absolutely in awe of those two clashing against each other. I was the Hogan fan and my brother was the Warrior fan. GREAT times
> 
> It's matches like Hogan/Warrior, Savage/Warrior, Rock/Hogan, and Flair/Michaels where ratings will probably never do them justice. Those are more than just two guys in the ring performing moves on each other.


This post says it all. This is what Wrestlemania is all about!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Guess the three matches, I dare you. I'm going to say TBHAYLEY no matter what in response to it so it doesn't give anything away .


ahhhh I have no clue. :hayley2

Only matches I know from WM I am strongly against in terms of "overrating" are Bret vs Michaels Iron Man, Michaels vs Angle 21, & Undertaker vs Triple H 27.

Unless I'm completely missing one I tend to put down just as much. Cena vs Triple H isn't in the same league as those. I've warmed up a bit on Cena vs Triple H from 22. I just think it is far, far from "great".


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Don't wanna give away some of my ratings, as 3 of those matches are in my top 29 wrestlemania countdown. 

Completely agree with matches like hogan/warrior, rock/hogan and HBK/Flair ratIngs don't do them any justice, they are truly what Wrestlemania is all about. 

Anyway the other two: 

Punk vs Orton : **** 1/2*
Batista vs Cena : **** 1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TBHAYLEY.

& on a random note, my current NON-WRASSLEMANIA Five Star List :

Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Survivor Series 1996)
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (IYH Badd Blood 1997)
Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble 2000)
Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 2000)
The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (No Way Out 2006)
John Cena vs CM Punk (MITB 2011)
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules 2012)

*REALLY REALLY HIGH NON MANIA **** 3/4 MATCHES*

Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble 1992)
Two Man Power Trip vs Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho (Raw 2001)
Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 2001)
Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar (No Way Out 2004)
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Over The Limit 2012)

Anybody else care to share  ?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Five star non-Wrestlemania list:

Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Badd Blood 1997)
Cactus Jack vs Triple H (Royal Rumble 2000)
John Cena vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank 2011) 

Can't think of anything else really, basically all your matches on your list I have at ***** 3/4*

Ill have to rewatch some of them as Bret/Austin, Taker/Angle and HHH/Jericho would be real close to 5 stars for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dat's dat shit I DO LIKE.

Watching Best of Raw and Smackdown 2012 again, and there are some REALLY sketchy decisions on this DVD thus far such as an average 6 man tag on Smackdown from February, and Santino vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger which honestly has ZERO positive qualities. Watching BROCK'S RETURN NOW, what a fucking beast that guy is.

ALSO, if you listen closely to the promo where BROCK returns it's basically made obvious that Rock-Cena II is happening again. WE WERE SO BLIND :lol.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Best moment of my whole trip when Brock returned, the crowd went ballistic. Such an awesome moment, something I won't forget everyone around me was marking out like crazy. 

No Punk/Henry from the same night on the DVD?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You were there live ? Holy shit that must have been amazing. If I had to be there and BROCK returned I would have marked out so fucking much that I'd probably be a internet wide meme by now :lol. The way he just F-5's Cena and kicks his hat out of the ring, little things like that makes BROCK such a monster.

Well, come to think of it I probably wouldn't have made it to RAW due to the small string of homicides I would have committed after The Rock went over Cena at Wrestlemania.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer me and a mate saved up and went to 28 and raw, fucking 18 hours on a plane for our first mania, now saving up for 30. Such an awesome moment I must admit I got alittle excited when his music hit. The only time I marked out more was for the dark main event and speech from dat boy D-Bryan. I literally sat there like wtf just happened when rock won at 28, only think that made up for it was when I was walking back to the bus, walked right into Harley Race :mark: had to get a pic with him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THAT IS SO FUCKING BEAST, I love me some Race as Triple H is basically HARLEY 2000 especially when it comes to his move set.

Who'd you mark out for the most @ Mania ? HBK ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> TBHAYLEY.
> 
> & on a random note, my current NON-WRASSLEMANIA Five Star List :
> 
> ...


William Regal vs Fit Finlay from WCW Uncensored 1996. It didn't have to only be WWF/WWE matches here. :hayley1


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

So funny how I ran into him, basically as I called it some old guy was holding up my mate from getting first on the bus and I was like calm down, its no rush. As he go past he points at him and goes dude Harley Race. Then told him it was an honor to meet him and got a pic with him and had a 5 minute convo with him. Really awesome guy. 

Obviously HBK :mark: 

Marked out for the hug after end of an era and Punk/Jericho

Takers entrance is fucking epic, something you just have to experience it just gives you chills


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd be legit afraid that Harley would call me a mark and beat the shit out of me, so you must be a brave mother fucker :lol.

Cody, if we were listing NON WWE matches I'd be here all day listing all of my FLAIR matches that are five stars or close to five stars. I'm pretty sure that if I sat down and thought about it that NAITCH would have more five star matches on his own than there are five star matches in WWE history :lol .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I'd be legit afraid that Harley would call me a mark and beat the shit out of me, so you must be a brave mother fucker :lol.
> 
> Cody, if we were listing NON WWE matches I'd be here all day listing all of my FLAIR matches that are five stars or close to five stars. I'm pretty sure that if I sat down and thought about it that NAITCH would have more five star matches on his own than there are five star matches in WWE history :lol .


Flair vs Windham, Steamboat, War Games, and some tags. Yeah, you could be onto something. Feels the same way with the catalog for the late 80's AJPW main events.

As for the topic of WWF/WWE matches on your question: The Undertaker vs Mankind from King of the Ring '98 & Steve Austin vs Bret Hart WrestleMania 13. Bret Hart vs Davey Smith from Season's Beatings is another I hold in very high regard. Nearly every tag match involving The Rockers too.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

For a fucking tough dude like Harley, he is incredibly down to earth and nice guy. Now Brock is different I don't think I'd be as brave to walk up to the beast. 

:flair2 GOAT

Waiting for another set of your WM countdown KOK, only 2 more manias for me to watch now then ill start doing my write ups for my top 29 WM list.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not well versed in non North American wrestling AT ALL and I've never attempted to be unless there's a guy like Flair involved who I can get attached to and really mark out over... So on that token I can clearly say that Ric Flair is the greatest professional wrestler who has ever lived and that I'm 99.9999999999 percent sure that in this lifetime nobody will pass him.

It's actually fucking AMAZING. Singles work ? YEP. Tag Team work ? YEP. Babyface work ? YEP. Heel work ? OF FUCKING COURSE. He is the GOD of wrestling.

WAAAAIT A SECOND... You don't have Austin-Bret at five stars ? ARE YOU INSANE SONN !

OH AND BTW... If you read Brock's book he basically comes out and says that he fucking hates it when fans come up to him and ask for autographs when it's not a pre scheduled thing. He said he loves meeting his fans and giving them autographs/thanking them for support, but he's an entertainer and it's not his job to entertain when he's with his family or out about. I'm completely content with my BROCK autograph I got online with a COA Thank you very much.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Bret/Austin at WM 13, is there anyone who doesn't have it at 5 stars?

Ok so reading what you just said, I would definitely never walk up to Brock, unless its an auotgraph signing :lmao Fuck meeting Brock would be fucking epic and my facebook display picture forever (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> For a fucking tough dude like Harley, he is incredibly down to earth and nice guy. Now Brock is different I don't think I'd be as brave to walk up to the beast.
> 
> :flair2 GOAT
> 
> Waiting for another set of your WM countdown KOK, only 2 more manias for me to watch now then ill start doing my write ups for my top 29 WM list.


(Y)

Should be a fun read. Pardon my expected gripes with what I'm sure to be those two lingering HBK matches that will appeal. (broken record, but that's the point of the gag here. )

Rockers vs Twin Towers & HBK vs Vince > some of his other "classics" at WM, imo.



KingOfKings said:


> I'm not well versed in non North American wrestling AT ALL and I've never attempted to be unless there's a guy like Flair involved who I can get attached to and really mark out over... So on that token I can clearly say that Ric Flair is the greatest professional wrestler who has ever lived and that I'm 99.9999999999 percent sure that in this lifetime nobody will pass him.
> 
> It's actually fucking AMAZING. Singles work ? YEP. Tag Team work ? YEP. Babyface work ? YEP. Heel work ? OF FUCKING COURSE. He is the GOD of wrestling.
> 
> WAAAAIT A SECOND... You don't have Austin-Bret at five stars ? ARE YOU INSANE SONN !


Crop of talent at the time was unreal. Tenryu man. It's all I have to say. Plus, every wrestling fan should at least see one of the Misawa vs Kobashi matches. That's more in general for Puro, not '89. It was the 90's & eventual latter 00's where these classics would take place. Only a hint. (Kobashi is retiring in May of this year. See one to know it's the end of an era. ~!)

Flair is god. Goes without saying. A complete package if there ever was one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only guys I ever had profile pictures with are Hogan, Bret, and Piper. There's one with me, my best friend, Xpac, and Kevin Nash somewhere on there too .

The number one guy on my "TO MEET" list is the GOAT though. He's even above Trips due to historical value.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Those two HBK matches I promise if they make the list wont be to high (Y)

But some others will be, which im sure others wont think as highly of them as myself. 

Misawa/Kawada :mark:

Guys I definitely want to meet HBK, Flair, Austin, Taker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I'm convinced Flair has more Five Star matches than the ENTIRE WWE COMPANY has produced. This blows my mind but at the same time...... I honestly can't say I'm THAT surprised. FUCK, there is no North American wrestler in the same conversation as Ric Flair. FUCKING NOBODY.

In the universe of the WWE however ? Hmmmm........... This is where the question gets a little tricky of course. Bret Hart immediately jumps out to me as THAT GUY with The Undertaker there right behind him. I'm WAY higher on Shawn then most around these parts too. Rey, Eddie, and Benoit jump out but when we're talking STRICTLY WWE Eddie really wasn't around that long. Fuck, there's a ton of guys in the top 10 conversation but if we're talking top 4 give me Bret, Taker, Benoit, and REY.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I'm convinced Flair has more Five Star matches than the ENTIRE WWE COMPANY has produced. This blows my mind but at the same time...... I honestly can't say I'm THAT surprised. FUCK, there is no North American wrestler in the same conversation as Ric Flair. FUCKING NOBODY.


There are a couple of them I would put above Flair any day of the week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Some Non-Wrestlemania 5 star matches off the top of my head:

HBK/Undertaker IYH Bad Blood HIAC (GOAT match)
Triple H/Cactus Jack RR '00
HBK/Mankind IYH Mind Games '96
Triple H/Jericho Fully Loaded '00
HBK/Jericho Ladder Match No Mercy '08

As far as WWE Goats, I go with consistency and longevity first and there's no question that's HBK with his two seperate runs. After that, I'd go with Bret, and Taker a distant third. For the first 9-10 years of Taker's career, he had alot of garbage due to his gimmick and some of the opponents Vince gave him. That's a long stretch. Then, you got guys like Eddy, Rey and Benoit, who if they were around longer would be higher on the list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finished watching WM V. It's in the middle of the pack as far as ranking them so far. Would have done so much better if there wasn't just so much fucking SHIT that took place that I didn't want to watch. Did well to stay in the + points on the CAL SCALE despite how many - points it got for all those matches I simply didn't want to sit through .


----------



## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

I watched this gem last night. The first two falls could have been their own matches and still be awesome. The street fight was very violent, but didn't have any crazy spots which was cool. 

Austin really was kicking triple H's ass for a lot of this match


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

You want a five star match list? Well fuck, those are obvious, the ones that just miss 5.... those are the ones that show a person's true insanity.

Take the Edge/Flair TLC for instance, I'm aware everyone else has it at like ***1/2 but fuuuuuuck it's just this amazing story of Flair trying to get to the to top just one. more. time in front of HIS town, with HIS daughter watching on, but bah gawd that scumbag Edge wants to kill him for ruining his chance at some NOOKY.

Or Flair/HHH at Taboo Tuesday 05.... actually my god, late 05-early 06 Flair is just extraordinary.

Anyway, shall ramble more later, I need a chippy!

My lord, that was like a post I would have made in here 4 years ago only with better spelling.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Craig should post here more often.

I would absolutely advise you to watch the two Lawler/Jarrett vs Moondogs matches from USWA I wrote about a few pages back. Youtube links provided courtesy of Moops. Bloodbaths, Lawler trying to drown a motherfucker, Jarrett nuking a Moondog with a chair throw right in his noggin with no regard for health and safety, glasses being smashed and Jarrett getting cut up with no-one knowing how it came about. Be prepared for some shite commentary from the first match in particular. I've heard more coherent and varied vocabularly from Danny Dyer.

Also Flair/Edge rules. Not as high as you on it, but its absolutely a great match carried by Flair's story and desire to win the big one with Edge bumping like a nut and all the big spots being timed well enough to create some tension. Crowd is electric as well which always adds to those sort of matches and stories.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair/HHH TT Cage being ****3/4 isn't that insane Craig. I'm disappointed. You post needs more mentions of Owen Vs Mankind.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

And Taker vs Randy/Bob Orton Handicap Casket Match from No Mercy '05. Craig's the guy who really really adores that match and considers it one of if not the best (forgetful memory) match from the series right?

I've learned to trust his judgement after the praise be bestowed upon Hogan/Flair Halloween Havoc '94 and being 100% correct with his admiration for it. That's still one of the top 5 funnest matches I've ever sat through on top of being brilliant in its own right.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That casket match is awesome. I'd put their HIAC above it, but its pretty much equal with WM and SS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All Taker/Orton matches in 2005 completely rule. HIAC is definitely the best followed by SummerSlam. Although I would've been sleeping on SS had it not been for CAL constantly praising it more than anyone else I've ever seen.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> That casket match is awesome. I'd put their HIAC above it, but its pretty much equal with WM and SS.


Yeah I recall enjoying it a lot but its been too long since I last watched the series. I just remember someone and I'm positive it was Craig was by far the biggest fan of the match I'd seen at the time he shared thoughts about it. Hard to say off memory which match I liked the most. Thought Mania was a very good match built around making Orton a threat and working a simple match very well, Summerslam is a total blindspot for me & the HIAC I recall liking a lot, but thinking it was a step down from the truly great Cell matches. HHH/Batista for example I found far better as far as '05 Cell matches go.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HIAC > SS = NM > WM > SD

Taker/Orton HIAC > HHH/Batista HIAC too for me .

Craig is definitely a bigger fan of the casket match than me. I always had a soft spot for it though since it brought me back to wrestling after I gave up following WM earlier than year. Saw an advert for the match the day of the show, ended up ordering the PPV .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't think I'd have any Orton/Taker match in the top 5 from 2005, but that speaks more about what we got that year if anything. They're certainly all from memory good matches at the minimum.

Eddie/Mysterio 6/23, GAB, Hardy/Edge Unforgiven, HHH/Batista HIAC and HHH/Flair Taboo Tuesday would definitely be ahead of the Taker/Orton matches. Can't recall too many other matches that stick out though aside from Benoit/Orton 12/30 which I've heard for ages was one of their better matches from a few people, including Buzz Sawyer at t'other place.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Orton HIAC
HHH/Batista HIAC
Eddie/Rey SD
HHH/Flair TT
Undertaker/Orton SS
Undertaker/Orton Casket
Eddie/Rey GAB
Undertaker/Orton WM
Hardy/Edge Cage
Angle/HBK Vengeance
Eddie/Rey JD
Angle/HBK WM
Undertaker/Orton SD

That's roughly how I'd order the big matches from 05 off the top of my head. Lowest rated on is Undertaker/Orton SD and that's ***3/4. Everything is is ****1/4+.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Yeah I'm the nut for the Ortons/Taker casket match, just insanely fun.

HOGAN FLAIR CAGE, that's another cusp of ***** match, shit it might even hit the five star mark, fuck knows.

Shall get on that USWA stuff a bit later dear. Owen/Mankind... now there's a 7 minute long match that's as near to perfection as you can get, SMASHED JARS OF WATER, BITING ON THE CLAW, STUMP PILEDRIVERS. Hm... once I've eaten I forsee this ramble continuing.

You are talking to someone who has Austin/McMahon in the cage at ****1/2 yet even though Mankind is my favourite wrestler the HIAC on,y gets ***1/2. Hm. The insanity of my ratings know no bounds (Umaga/Cena LMS and Jericho/HBK Ladder matches don't even break the *** mark for me (WHY THE FUCK DO YOU DO A LIONSAULT ONTO A LADDER?!?!?!?)

That is how you do mad capitals by the way, take note certain people.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Craig said:


> Yeah I'm the nut for the Ortons/Taker casket match, just insanely fun.
> 
> HOGAN FLAIR CAGE, that's another cusp of ***** match, shit it might even hit the five star mark, fuck knows.
> 
> ...


Hogan/Flair is probably one of the matches I'd showcase as an example of what makes pro wrestling so fun. The clash in characters, the electric atmosphere, Sherri trying to climb the cage repeatedly, the entire sequence of Sherri trying to climb the cage, leading to Sting trying to stop her, leading to Sting getting attacked and Sherri finally advancing to the top and delivering the splash. Everything just felt so grand and chaotic and it was just brilliant to see unfold. An ode of how to book a rather messy and interference heavy finishing stretch but doing it right and increasing tension rather than having it descend into a farce.

I find the Jericho/Michaels match from GAB to be their best. Whichever one is centred around Michaels blading and Jericho mercilessly beating him to a bloody pulp with no remorse. Don't care for Unforgiven and the Unsanctioned match and I find that's an example of both workers not being suited to a brawl. Michaels whiffs on punches and the facial expressions/acting feels hammy and taking away from the passion and fire in his work and Jericho just doesn't strike me as being suited to that environment at that point in his career (didn't care much for Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules '12 for the same reasons). The Ladder match has its moments and I get why its thought highly of, but I'm not a big fan. IIRC they were doing chain wrestling and stuff in the beginning which felt out of place for the feud. 

Its a match I've accepted as having its fans because people interpret and appreciate things differently than I, Morrison/Sheamus from TLC '10 smokes it as far as single ladder matches go imo.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Craig said:


> You want a five star match list? Well fuck, those are obvious, the ones that just miss 5.... those are the ones that show a person's true insanity.
> 
> Take the Edge/Flair TLC for instance, *I'm aware everyone else has it at like ***1/2* but fuuuuuuck it's just this amazing story of Flair trying to get to the to top just one. more. time in front of HIS town, with HIS daughter watching on, but bah gawd that scumbag Edge wants to kill him for ruining his chance at some NOOKY.


I've seen people rate that match higher than that. Last time I watched I rated it ****** and discussed about the match in here and people were giving it similar ratings, I was seeing ****3/4* and even *****1/4* for it. One of Flair's best performances that year, some of the bumps he was taking in that match were pretty crazy considering his age, the storytelling of Flair trying to win the title one more time in front of his home town crowd and his daughter at ringside was great, and Edge played the asshole heel perfectly in this match taking advantage of Ric Flair's home town crowd and taunting his daughter during the match. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> I don't think I'd have any Orton/Taker match in the top 5 from 2005, but that speaks more about what we got that year if anything. They're certainly all from memory good matches at the minimum.
> 
> Eddie/Mysterio 6/23, GAB, *Hardy/Edge Unforgiven*, HHH/Batista HIAC and HHH/Flair Taboo Tuesday would definitely be ahead of the Taker/Orton matches. Can't recall too many other matches that stick out though aside from Benoit/Orton 12/30 which I've heard for ages was one of their better matches from a few people, including Buzz Sawyer at t'other place.


Good shout. One of my most favorite matches from 2005, but If I had say what was my overall favorite match from 2005 was - it would probably be HHH/Batista HIAC at Vengeance 2005. That match was just on another level. My favorite HIAC match of all time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MORRISON. I miss that guy.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I give the bloke tremendous credit. He sold the legwork maticulously throughout and paced, built to and timed his comeback spots with aplomb. Sheamus also turned in by far his best performance to date and probably overall with a great focus on the leg and creative use of the ladder which made for a solid structure and got the crowd invested in all of Morrison's comebacks. Fact there was only one major spot which came at the very end was pleasantly surprising.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista/HHH is incredible and definitely my MOTY for 2005. Elimination Chamber follows it and then I put Orton/Taker HIAC and the two cage matches after it. (HHH/Flair and Edge/Hardy)



The Lady Killer said:


> MORRISON. I miss that guy.


Funny you say that just as I started playing Judgment Day 06 and he made his entrance with MNM.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Pretty much how I feel about a few contests such as Batista vs Eddie Guerrero from No Mercy 2005 and Triple H vs Eugene from Summerslam 2004. 

Batista vs Eddie could basically be interpreted as a handicap match with Eddie wrestling his friend while also taking on his demons at the same time. The "action" isn't really heavy in the slightest, but just the little things like how Eddie re adjusts himself after every move and really sells the inner turmoil he's battling inside and makes it a very special match for me. It's almost along the same lifeline as Eddie-Rey from the GAB in 2005 as Eddie just completely sells me his character every single time I watch it. What amazes me is that it's such a change in terms of character work and it's the exact same year that these two matches are taking place.

Triple H vs Eugene, FUCK. This match has it's haters due to people not liking that fact that it's you know....... Triple H beating up somebody who's mentally handicapped, but GAME is just brilliant in this one. The game plan for Triple H is simple ; Eugene is mentally inferior to him while he's the cerebral fucking assassin, which prompts Trips to use some really old school heel tactics such as baiting Eugene in and poking the eyes, and faking an injury to gain another advantage and stay on top. Eugene gets his offense in on pure will, while Triple H gets his from his years of picking opponents apart.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shit, how did I forget the Elimination Chamber for 05 matches? That might sandwich between the HIAC matches (dirty whore that it is).

Best one on one ladder matches then? No order:

Eddie/RVD Raw '01
Sheamus/Morrison TLC '10
HBK/Razor SS '95
HBK/Razor WM X
HBK/Razor House Show prior to WM X
Del Rio/Christian ER '11

Those are probably the only ones I got at **** and above. Could be forgetting one or two though. My memory sucks.

Shit, how did I forget the Elimination Chamber for 05 matches? That might sandwich between the HIAC matches (dirty whore that it is).

Best one on one ladder matches then? No order:

Eddie/RVD Raw '01
Sheamus/Morrison TLC '10
HBK/Razor SS '95
HBK/Razor WM X
HBK/Razor House Show prior to WM X
Del Rio/Christian ER '11

Those are probably the only ones I got at **** and above. Could be forgetting one or two though. My memory sucks. Hmmm... Deja Vu.

Shit, how did I forget the Elimination Chamber for 05 matches? That might sandwich between the HIAC matches (dirty whore that it is).

Best one on one ladder matches then? No order:

Eddie/RVD Raw '01
Sheamus/Morrison TLC '10
HBK/Razor SS '95
HBK/Razor WM X
HBK/Razor House Show prior to WM X
Del Rio/Christian ER '11

Those are probably the only ones I got at **** and above. Could be forgetting one or two though. My memory sucks. Hmmm... Deja Vu. Double Deja Vu.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I give the bloke tremendous credit. He sold the legwork maticulously throughout and paced, built to and timed his comeback spots with aplomb. Sheamus also turned in by far his best performance to date and probably overall with a great focus on the leg and creative use of the ladder which made for a solid structure and got the crowd invested in all of Morrison's comebacks. Fact there was only one major spot which came at the very end was pleasantly surprising.


aplomb = awesome word

I like quite a few of Morrison's matches. His stuff as a member of MNM was great for the most part, and I also enjoy his singles work. His match against Rey on SD for the IC title is top notch imo.



Choke2Death said:


> Batista/HHH is incredible and definitely my MOTY for 2005. Elimination Chamber follows it and then I put Orton/Taker HIAC and the two cage matches after it. (HHH/Flair and Edge/Hardy)
> 
> Funny you say that just as I started playing Judgment Day 06 and he made his entrance with MNM.


LOVE LOVE LOVE Elimination Chamber from NYR 05. THE GAME was quite awesome in 05. EC match, turning Batista into a star and the LEGIT HIAC, return/Flair feud.

edit Cal what's your rating for Benoit/Jericho RR 01?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'll echo the love for Hogan/Flair cage and Edge/Flair TLC.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I find the Jericho/Michaels match from GAB to be their best. Whichever one is centred around Michaels blading and Jericho mercilessly beating him to a bloody pulp with no remorse. Don't care for Unforgiven and the Unsanctioned match and I find that's an example of both workers not being suited to a brawl. Michaels whiffs on punches and the facial expressions/acting feels hammy and taking away from the passion and fire in his work and Jericho just doesn't strike me as being suited to that environment at that point in his career (didn't care much for Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules '12 for the same reasons). *The Ladder match has its moments and I get why its thought highly of, but I'm not a big fan. IIRC they were doing chain wrestling and stuff in the beginning which felt out of place for the feud. *
> 
> Its a match I've accepted as having its fans because people interpret and appreciate things differently than I, Morrison/Sheamus from TLC '10 smokes it as far as single ladder matches go imo.


The chain wrestling at the start was bogus. I think it's a great match but I have some problems with it and agree with you about Morrison/Sheamus being better.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I enjoy Edge/Flair TLC, but I wouldn't go over ** for it. Few too obviously contrived spots, even for TLC standards, for example when Flair sets up the ladder in the fucking CORNER (!), and climbs it so Edge can superplex him from the top of it. fpalm


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

See? Knew I'd forget one. LOVE that match, even more so when I did my RR reviews last month. ****3/4 and without a doubt the #1 best one on one ladder match imo.


***3/4 for Flair/Edge TLC .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> aplomb = awesome word
> 
> I like quite a few of Morrison's matches. His stuff as a member of MNM was great for the most part, and I also enjoy his singles work. His match against Rey on SD for the IC title is top notch imo.


He was always a good seller and capable of working smart spots, but I never got the impression he was a 'great' babyface worker. Felt a lot of his offence wasn't great particularly when he deviated to a more strike orientated offence and felt it stifled a lot of his comebacks. The Ladder match was an eye opener though as he worked his offence and comeback superbly into the gimmick and made his comeback one of the brighter moments in an otherwise excellent match.

Very overlooked as a tag team worker though particularly as a heel. MNM are the best tag team WWE had in the decade as far as heels go imo and Nitro was a big part of that. Used his flashy offence well and worked smartly with Mercury and Melina running interference, double team moves, blatant cheating to draw the ire of the crowd etc.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Morrison's a strange one for me, ignoring the fact that OH FUCK HE'S GORGEOUS he's a very flashy worker, good when getting a proper beatdown done on him... hang on..... John Morrison's like an actual good Kofi!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I thought Morrison was going to go onto greater things after he beat Sheamus in that ladder match, he looked like he would be a future World Champion. Then again, they were guys like MVP and Mr. Kennedy who looked like future World Champions too who never won the title. So it just goes to show you that guys who people are priming now as future World Champions (guys like Rhodes and Cesaro come to mind) may not win the big one, you never know with the WWE.

Edit: I'm probably one of the few who preferred Morrison in MNM. Was a big fan of that tag team, as WOOLCOCK says they were probably the best heel tag team in the past decade, never cared as much when Morrison went solo and I never really liked the Miz/Morrison tag team.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jericho/Benoit > ALL .

This RAW/SD 2012 DVD is so fucking hit and miss that I don't even know what to say about it. We get matches like Punk vs Henry/Bryan and segments like Big Show crushing Kofi/Truth/Brodus which is always awesome, but at the same time we get shitty matches like Santino vs Jack Swagger vs Dolph Ziggler, and a handful of average Orton TV matches. He has a few good matches on here so far though, hoping to see more PUNK as this set progresses, and 2012 was once again his year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Morrison was always very up and down for me. One week he'd put on a great performance and have a good match. Then the next week he's be the spottiest fuck going and make me wanna punch him in the face. Fuck WWE for splitting up MNM (though in the end didn't Mercury get released/fired for drug problems?). They were awesome as a team. Fuck WWE for getting rid of the Dudley Boys too. Dudleys were getting really fucking stale by like, end of 03, but a feud between those teams in 05/06? FUGGETT BOUT IT.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> See? Knew I'd forget one. LOVE that match, even more so when I did my RR reviews last month. ****3/4 and without a doubt the #1 best one on one ladder match imo.
> 
> 
> ***3/4 for Flair/Edge TLC .


Keeping you on your toes.  

I need to see Flair/Edge TLC again. Haven't seen it since I watched it on live TV. Remember being really into it, though.



WOOLCOCK said:


> He was always a good seller and capable of working smart spots, but I never got the impression he was a 'great' babyface worker. Felt a lot of his offence wasn't great particularly when he deviated to a more strike orientated offence and felt it stifled a lot of his comebacks. The Ladder match was an eye opener though as he worked his offence and comeback superbly into the gimmick and made his comeback one of the brighter moments in an otherwise excellent match.
> 
> Very overlooked as a tag team worker though particularly as a heel. MNM are the best tag team WWE had in the decade as far as heels go imo and Nitro was a big part of that. Used his flashy offence well and worked smartly with Mercury and Melina running interference, double team moves, blatant cheating to draw the ire of the crowd etc.


See, I thought his flashy offense played well into his babyface work. I felt that since his moves were aesthetically pleasing, it was easier for the crowd to rally behind his comeback phases. His leg strikes, much like Daniel Bryan's, were stiff (running knee to the head shot & roundhouse kick to the head) and believable. To me, his matches are paralleled to those of Ziggler: Offense doesn't often make much sense as far as structure is concerned, but it's flashy enough to keep the crowd engaged and he sells like a beast.

edit Damn, Morrison conversation apparently turns me into a serious poster. :side:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Craig said:


> Morrison's a strange one for me, ignoring the fact that OH FUCK HE'S GORGEOUS he's a very flashy worker, good when getting a proper beatdown done on him... hang on..... John Morrison's like an actual good Kofi!


Yeah its strange. He definitely had a very good understanding of selling long term and building to his big spots and comebacks, especially around '09-10 but I think his image as strange as it sounds made me find it hard to buy into him. He didn't really have very good impactful offence in terms of strikes, so I much preferred when he'd rely on aerial moves since it masked some of his weaknesses. Minute he altered his style and used more forearms and knees/kicks I felt the same issue with just not buying into him doing much damage and thinking it took away from a match.

As a heel worker I think he was better suited in his MNM days when he had the arrogant playboy appeal that could make him hated. Definitely think it was wise to make him babyface as he got older since he had a good understanding of selling and timing to make a better babyface than a lot of the roster, but for whatever reason I just don't get as connected in a match when he's using more strikes. Think McQueen echoed these thoughts ages back and just said his look made it hard to buy into him later as he became more of a hybrid worker. He's better than a lot of current midcard guys though, Kofi definitely being one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> See, I thought his flashy offense played well into his babyface work. I felt that since his moves were aesthetically pleasing, it was easier for the crowd to rally behind his comeback phases. His leg strikes, much like Daniel Bryan's, were stiff (running knee to the head shot & roundhouse kick to the head) and believable. To me, his matches are paralleled to those of Ziggler: Offense doesn't often make much sense as far as structure is concerned, but it's flashy enough to keep the crowd engaged and he sells like a beast.


Eh, horses for courses tbh. I preferred him having more aerial offence such as leg lariats like Punk utilised as opposed to when he developed more of a basic ground game and looked more towards the strikes and 'technical' approach. Shame because he had the selling, intelligence and appeal of a great babyface worker but just couldn't put together a set of offence that I really loved in singles matches in his comeback. The Ladder match does highlight his potential though and he's definitely an improvement on a lot of current midcarderes.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I need to go on a Morrison binge to be honest. Hell I need to go on a wrestling binge in general, just need to find the special... thing that sets me back off. I mean I watch the weekly shit and whenever my best friend's over I continue my re-education of him wrestling wise (So far: He loves Punk & Bryan, Had a damn near heart attack when he saw what Mark Henry's like nowadays, heavily dislikes Show and Sheamus and feels sorry for Cena because "He looks like a guy that's just woke up thinking he's had hot drunken sex with a 10/10 but it's actually a dog, a big alsatian, and he's got cock hair all over his mouth" on't fucking ask me what that means, seems apt though).

I just need that one wee spark to ignite the passion again, happens every few months... a visit to 1982 Tennessee may be in order.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 6 is terrible so far. 3 matches, 3 DUDs. And now I have to sit through a fucking Brutus match because Mr Perfect also happens to be there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

:lmao @ the Cena description.

There are a few matches I rely on to get me back into a wrestling groove. Any match from Memphis or Mid South is usually a good bet, on account of how fun everything is on top of being excellent. Tenryu being an obnoxious dick and punting people in the eye isn't far behind. Ikeda vs Ishikawa from FUTEN in '05 where they commit Gross Bodily Harm on the other for 20 minutes in front of 000s of witnesses and no-one does a thing because who in the fuck would try and break it up is also my third option.

None have yet to fail.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You mean THE Brutus "Mr. Wrestlemania" Beefcake ? 

Wrestlemania VI is a complete one match show by the way. I think there's another match or two in there that's okay, but nope.... It's really, really bad and one of the worst Manias ever if I do say so myself, right there with I, II, IV, XI, XV, and IX.

Which reminds me, I oughta continue that Wrestlemania countdown when I'm done this disc.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Match ratings for KOK's 40-36:

Batista/Cena WM26- ***3/4
Punk/Orton WM27- ***1/2
Hogan/Rock WM18- ***3/4
Hogan/Warrior WM6- ****
HBK/Flair WM24- ****

Looking good so far KOK. No major disagreements thus far (though I know that's probably going to change with the next batch, as I'm predicting at least one match at **** that I have a full star under that).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Batista/Cena WM26- ***3/4
Punk/Orton WM27- **1/2
Hogan/Rock WM18- ***1/2
Hogan/Warrior WM6- We'll see in a couple of hours
HBK/Flair WM24- ***1/2


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Off the top of the ol' noggin

Batista/Cena WM26- ***1/2
Punk/Orton WM27- **1/4
Hogan/Rock WM18- ***
Hogan/Warrior WM6- ***3/4
HBK/Flair WM24- ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Batista/Cena WM26- ***3/4
Punk/Orton WM27- ***
Hogan/Rock WM18- ****
Hogan/Warrior WM6- ****1/4 (my favorite match as a kid, still love it)
HBK/Flair WM24- ***1/2 (need to watch it again)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK/Flair is a pretty polarizing match. I have it rated about what Craig has it at, but I know a few people have it down in the *** range. Storytelling at its finest imo.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Batista/Cena - WM26 - ***1/2
Punk/Orton - WM27 - **3/4 (need to watch again)
Hogan/Rock - WM18 - ***1/2
HBK/Flair - WM24 - ***3/4


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Batista/cena: ***1/2

Punk/Orton: **1/2 (could have been so much better)

Hogan/rock: **** (Amazing crowd one of Hogans best matches)

Hogan/warrior: ***

HBK/flair: ****	(Michaels ribs. That is all)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What's up with the low ratings for Punk/Orton?


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

It's a dull, dull match that does my ultimate sin (same sin goes for movies): has hints that it could have been so, so much better.

That and RKOOUTTANOWHERE is just... bleh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, it's shite.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Orton, great leg work by Punk, selling by Orton, never gets dull and the RKO out of nowhere didn't bother me as much as it usually does. Some nice storytelling as well and it was Punk/Orton's best match imo (LMS was close) and arguably MOTN for Mania.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingOfKings Top 50 Matches in Wrestlemania History : 35-31


35. _"What on EARTH is Trish doing?"_










Christian vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XX) : ******


34. _"You will find at Wrestlemania that the truth....Hurts... BANG BANG!"_










Mick Foley vs Edge (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII) : ******


33. _"You see Booker, people like YOU don't become World Champion"_










World Heavyweight Championship - Triple H(c) vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX) : ******


32. _"SPEAR FROM THE TOP OF THE LADDER! THE SPEAR!"_










WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania X-7) : ******


31. _"CM Punk is on top of the world right now"_










Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin vs CM Punk vs Ken Kennedy vs MVP vs Carlito vs John Morrison (Money in the Bank Ladder Match : Wrestlemania XXIV) : ******





20 matches in and the only real controversy I feel I provoked was the fact that I love CM Punk vs Randy Orton more than most people do ? Well THIS certainly has to change, and I know it will in the next 10. The two ladder matches go without saying ; some of the best spotfests you'll ever see, although I feel like MITB IV edges out TLC II by a small margin.

Christian vs Chris Jericho and Triple H vs Booker T are two matches that I feel fly under the radar when it comes to discussing great Wrestlemania matches. Whether it be because the Wrestlemania XX main event is such a classic that nothing else from the show gets remembered, or that Triple H vs Booker T had "the wrong guy go over", neither of these matches get the proper praise they deserve for the performances they put on.

The real slam dunk pick for here is Foley-Edge. Foley likes to say that this is his finest Wrestlemania match ever, and while that may be true in terms of his own personal performance, I'd like to think that his finest Wrestlemania match is still to come here. Still though, this seems to be regarded as a match that everybody throws four stars at and you'll get no exceptions from me, who marked the fuck out at it when I watched it live.

What to expect in the next five ? Four Wrestlemania main events and an all time legend taking on a brash young star who needs to shut his mouth.​


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Christian/Jericho WM20- ****
Edge/Foley- ****1/4 (MOTN by a country mile)
Booker T/HHH- ***1/2
TLC WM17- Need to re-watch
MITB IV- ****1/4


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KoK do you think it'd be asking too much for you to link your prior posts at the bottom of every segment for people who missed earlier parts of the coundtown? Would be appreciated for lazy people such as myself.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

How does one go about putting in a spoiler box so I could have one right at the bottom of the list so far ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Christian vs Chris Jericho - ★★★
Edge vs Mick Foley - ★★★★
Triple H vs Booker T - ★★★¼
TLC II - Need to rewatch
MITB IV - ★★★¾

Again, great work and other than the first match in the list which I need to rewatch, no major disagreements.

And spoiler tags are simply using spoiler within [ ] and the first one has spoiler=insert something here.

So it's


Spoiler: type something



example


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Christian/Jericho: ***

Edge/foley: ****	( MOTN)

HHH/Booker: **3/4

Tlc WM 17: *****	(GOAT tlc match)

MITB WM 24: ***3/4


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Great post KOK - totally agree with you about the Booker/HHH match. Underrated, and even though I'm a HHH mark Booker probably should have gone over 

I'd personally have TLC II above WM24 MITB but that's just my preference. Looking forward to the rest of the countdown!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

[*spoiler=whatever you want to write] text [/spoiler]

Obviously remove the * when doing the actual spoiler.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I love the commentary in that Triple H / Booker match. JR is hilarious in his sarcasm towards Lawler then he just goes ballistic 'FLAIR SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE DAMMIT!'

Can't really remember Jericho vs. Christian and I've never seen Wrestlemania 24, but the TLC match and Foley/Edge are wonderful.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So seeing KOK made me want to make my own Top 50 list. I'll post 50-31 now, and then post after KOK whatever he decides (so KOK has a list to look forward to as well, and he's not called retarded alone ). The differences should be interesting as well, though his list should be of wider variety since I didn't go back and watch all the Manias like him. 

Well, enjoy, no pictures either, I'm that lazy:

31-50 (normally I'll post them in order from worst to best as KOK does, but doing it this way just to make it quick):

(****)
31) Jericho vs. Christian WM20
32) Hogan vs. Warrior WM6
33) HBK vs. Bret Hart WM12
(***3/4)
34) Hogan vs. Rock WM18
35) HBK vs. Austin WM14
36) Austin vs. Rock WM15
37) Orton vs. Cena vs. HHH WM24
38) MITB WM22
39) Batista vs. Cena WM26
40) Trish Stratus vs. Mickie James WM22
(***1/2)
41) Taker vs. HHH WM27
42) CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio WM26
43) Rock vs. Cena WM28
44) Punk vs. Randy Orton WM27
45) MITB WM23
46) Booker T vs. HHH WM19
47) Benoit vs. MVP WM23
48) Edge vs. Del Rio WM27
49) MITB WM23
50) Undertaker vs. Diesel WM12


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't say I agree with some of the opinions on Punk/Orton at all. I'm with KingOfKings and The Rawk. Really good match. Punk was great in it and Orton held up his end of the bargain with a good selling performance. 

Now I'm seeing people throwing *** at Christian/Jericho. Different strokes I guess but I love that match.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Christian vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Edge vs Mick Foley - ****1/2 (Also :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: out of :mark:
Triple H vs Booker T - **1/2
TLC II -****1/4
MITB IV - ****


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Can't say I agree with some of the opinions on Punk/Orton at all. I'm with KingOfKings and The Rawk. Really good match. Punk was great in it and Orton held up his end of the bargain with a good selling performance.
> 
> Now I'm seeing people throwing *** at Christian/Jericho. Different strokes I guess but I love that match.




to me it was just disappointing. I thought they would have had match of the year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Now I'm seeing people throwing *** at Christian/Jericho. Different strokes I guess but I love that match.


The only time I've watched that match was on the night of WM28 when I decided to watch the entire WM20 and I simply wasn't into it all that much. My taste has changed a bit since then so a rewatch might make it a better experience.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian vs Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Edge vs Mick Foley - ****1/4 
Triple H vs Booker T - ****
TLC II -***3/4
MITB IV - ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Man, I really need to see HHH/Booker again. Literally the only things I remember from it are the indian deathlock and the HOUSTON HANGOVER. Good thing I went out and bought Mania XIX at FYE today...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Christian vs Chris Jericho - ****1/4
Edge vs Mick Foley - ****1/2
Triple H vs Booker T - ****
TLC II - ****1/2 - (watched this one again recently, still as good)
MITB IV - **** (id say this as memory, really need to watch it again though)


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

MITB Wrestlemania XXIV ****1/4
TLC II ****3/4
Christian v Jericho ****
Edge vs Foley ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Could anyone recommend any Taker matches from 05-08 Smackdown?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Could anyone recommend any Taker matches from 05-08 Smackdown?




Taker/Batista had an awesome cage match in 07. This leading to edge cash in.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Edge/Foley - ****
Jericho/Christian - ****1/4
MITB 4 - ****1/4


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Could anyone recommend any Taker matches from 05-08 Smackdown?


Vs Great Khali - 18/8/06


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Taker/Batista had an awesome cage match in 07. This leading to edge cash in.


Yep, really like this myself, sure there are commercials as usual though which fucking always annoys me, cant they release them in full?



Arnold Tricky said:


> Vs Great Khali - 18/8/06


Really?  Not sure i have seen any of their matches though tbh.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Really?  Not sure i have seen any of their matches though tbh.


Khali's best match imo, I have it at ***1/2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Khali's best match imo, I have it at ***1/2.


As long as the Taker is in it, ill watch it  Khali's best wrestling aspect is still yet to come.................retirement.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Could anyone recommend any Taker matches from 05-08 Smackdown?


Undertaker vs.

JBL (No DQ) 6/16/2005

JBL 7/28/2005

Randy Orton 9/16/2005

Kurt Angle 3/3/2006

Great Khali (Last Man Standing) 8/18/2006

w/Kane vs. MVP/Kennedy 11/3/2006

w/Kane vs. King Booker/Finlay 12/22/2006

w/Batista vs. Rated RKO 2/16/2007

Finlay 3/9/2007

Batista (Cage Match) 5/11/2007

Mark Henry 9/28/2007

Kane 4/4/2008

Festus 4/11/2008

Batista 4/18/2008

Batista (No DQ) 4/25/2008

Triple H 10/24/2008

Big Show (Cage Match) 11/28/2008


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I miss Taker as a workhorse on Smackdown.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> As long as the Taker is in it, ill watch it  Khali's best wrestling aspect is still yet to come.................retirement.


(Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I miss Taker as a workhorse on Smackdown.


This. I just miss Taker on Smackdown period, he added a lot of starpower to the show and was a mainstay on the show for years. Definitely made the show worth watching when he was appearing regularly.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I loved old Smackdown in general as a kid its how I really got into wrestling as they showed it on Sky One. What a roster they had at the time .

Brock , Angle , Eddie , Benoit , Undertaker , Mysterio , Thug Cena :mark: 

Also the GAWD Paul Heyman.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smackdown from the start of the brand extension up until Benoit's move to Raw was absolutely awesome. So much great talent. Can't believe how bad it got once Benoit and Lesnar left, though. Then it got better in 2005 specially post-draft. 2006 has also been pretty good for me so far.

I assume the summer of 2007 is when the show's downfall started with all the injuries.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The injuries in '07 just got ridiculous. I feel like every time they tried to do something someone got hurt. Shame too because if you look at the full roster it could've been pretty good.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> I loved old Smackdown in general as a kid its how I really got into wrestling as they showed it on Sky One. What a roster they had at the time .
> 
> Brock , Angle , Eddie , Benoit , Undertaker , Mysterio , Thug Cena :mark:
> 
> Also the GAWD Paul Heyman.


+ JBL

Loved growing up watching Smackdown on saturday mornings and then going to wrestle on a trampoline with my brother and friends.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Best tag matches?
> 
> Morton & Gilbert vs Fuchi & Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) (9/4/81)
> Mantell & King Cobra vs Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar (7/19/82)
> ...


AMAZING LIST! I know what I will be rewatching soon. :mark:


Ratings for KOK's current update of his list 

Christian vs Chris Jericho - ****1/4 (borderline ****1/2 I absolutely LOVE this match)
Edge vs Mick Foley - ****1/4
Triple H vs Booker T - ****
TLC II - ****
MITB IV - ****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> Undertaker vs.
> 
> JBL (No DQ) 6/16/2005
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for those mate  There are a couple with Benjamin which are decent too arn't there?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

WrestleMania XIX

Matt/Rey - ***1/2
Undertaker/Show & A-Train - **3/4
Trish/Victoria/Jazz - **1/4
Team Angle/Los Guerreros/ Benoit & Ryhno - ***3/4
HBK/Jericho - ****1/2
HHH/Booker T - ***3/4
Hogan/Vince - ***1/4
Austin/Rock - ****3/4
Brock/Angle - ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WrestleMania XIX

Matt/Rey - cant remember
Undertaker/Show & A-Train - **1/2 - maybe ***3/4 cos of the Taker (Taker deserved better FFS)
Trish/Victoria/Jazz - fuck knows lol
Team Angle/Los Guerreros/ Benoit & Ryhno - ***3/4 (Really enjoyed this, helps that i like evryone involved)
HBK/Jericho - ****1/2 (still really like this one)
HHH/Booker T - ***3/4 (again, very enjoyable, considering its HHH in 2003 lol)
Hogan/Vince - ***1/2 - ***3/4 (again, enjoyed the hell outta this i gotta say)
Austin/Rock - ****1/4 (maybe ****1/2 - great emotion involved, but still a fine match on merit) 
Brock/Angle - ****1/2 (the 'botch' apart, fucking superb, still like the SS match the better though i think) - probably will be ****3/4 after thought, i do love the Brockmeister lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

With the exception of Hogan Vs Vince, those are all really close to my ratings . Actually looking forward to re-watching Hogan Vs Vince when I get to that WM, because I fucking loved Vince Vs Flair from the RR this time around despite hating it in the past.

10 matches in to WM 6 now. EVERYTHING is fucking trash except the Rockers/Orient Express match (finish is the most hilariously awesome thing ever btw). BUT, I have DiBiase/Roberts next :mark: followed by Bossman Vs Akeem (what? ) and then Hogan/Warrior still to get through. Hoping it'll be a solid finish to the show at the very least. Oh and Rude Vs Snuka, but fuck, Snuka is horrible (WWF at least, haven't even attempted to venture out and see his other work).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When you talk about trilogy's (like Austin/Rock) from a pure wrestling perspective, that fucking Angle/Brock set - whoa, what a fucking superb trilogy. Loved the little segments they used to have on Smackdown too.

Guess it helped that they had a friendly rivalry off screen too (heard Mick Foley talk about how they were both competitive together in the car journeys too).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah Angle/Brock had a great trilogy of big matches. Shame they had 2 others that were pretty pointless and shitty prior to WM .

WM - ****1/4
SS - *****
SD Iron Man - ****1/2

Speaking of, well not just trilogies, but series of matches... is there anyone better at it than Undertaker? Got me thinking earlier when his Orton series was brought up. His series with Orton, Edge, HBK, HHH... they really are series of matches that imo you HAVE to watch in order, and if possible (after they've all happened) watched all in a row or at least with little time between, because fuck, there are just so many awesome little things that build and build as each match goes on. It really is like one long story, that progresses as the matches go on and have some wonderful payoffs. The Orton series has Orton trying to Tombstone Undertaker, starting at WM and finally ending at HIAC when he FINALLY hits it. Just one small thing that they keep playing off as their matches progress. The series with Edge, at WM Edge has a counter for EVERYTHING. Backlash, Edge thinks he can do the same, but Undertaker begins to evolve and change things so Edge can't predict what's coming next and how exactly it's going to be executed, and that keeps building to JD as well. His series of matches with people, mainly since he returned as the Dead Man, have all just been incredible imo with all those little things building and paying off and evolving and progressing, as well as a ton of call back spots as well. Just one of the reasons I honestly (as much bias aside as gingerly possible) think he is one of, if not THE greatest storyteller ever. Add his amazing character work that he brings to all his matches and I really find it hard to consider anyone else on his level, even Jake, who is on a level to himself as well, but perhaps still below 'Taker.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

In Your House 13: Final Four

Marc Mero Vs Leif Cassidy - *1/4
Goldust, Flash Funk & Bart Gunn Vs Faarooq, Savio Vega & Crush - * 
Rocky Maivia Vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley - **1/2
Owen Hart & British Bulldog Vs Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon - ***1/2
Bret Hart Vs Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Undertaker Vs Vader - ****1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Not to forget the Batista series, CAL. Taker is truly awesome when it comes to series against a certain opponent.

And speaking of the Orton feud, not only were the matches awesome but so were the segments. The go-home segment with Orton setting up Taker and doing a fake retirement promo was hilarious.


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

On the discussion of Wrestlemania XIX:

Hardy/Mysterio - ***1/2 - Short match but actually really enjoyable. Big fan of Matt Hardy's Cruserweight run.
Undertaker vs A-Train & Big Show - * - Taker being the only reason this match gets any rating.
Trish/Victoria/Jazz - Can't remember
Team Angle/Rhyno&Benoit/Los Guerreros - **3/4 - Quite hard to remember this match but fairly decent, may need to re-watch.
HBK/Jericho - ****3/4 - Such an awesome match, was slightly disappointed with the roll up finish though.
HHH/Booker T - *** - I hated the outcome at the time but enjoyed the contest more than I thought I would.
Hogan/Vince - ***3/4 - Vince somehow is the king of street fights, excellent match considering an aged Hogan vs a non wrestler. Probably helped with the use of weapons etc.
Austin/Rock - ****3/4 - Told an awesome story and typically amazing chemistry from Austin and The Rock. I honestly think that it being a title match would of made it that more special like their previous encounter but it was understandable considering both were leaving the company soon.
Lesnar/Angle - ****1/4 - One of the many great matches Angle and Lesnar had, including the awesome botched SSP :lmao.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

onto 2010 Raw now. 

Oh my god. It just gets worse. The ONLY things that are keeping this year above 2009 are BIG DAVE :mark: Cena, Sheamus, Orton and Punk when he appears at times. Bret Hart can fuck off in 2010, he has no business being here. 

Batista's been incredible so far, but he'll be leaving soon  

Hoping that the NEXUS angle can keep my interest as i head into the summer months.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The crapping on the Handicap match from WM 19 is funny.

It's good. I guess Big Show & A-Train are TOO BORING/FAT/SLOW _*random stupid nonsense*_

and everything...well, most of 2010 is wonderful. RAW, Smackdown, ECW/NXT, & SUPERSTARS. Even that glorious third season of NXT counts. It's the best horrifying intended piece of crap ever given to wrestling fans.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's an okay match for sure, don't know why people hate on it. It's no TAKER-BIG SHOW from a month earlier but it is what it is. The Undertaker was probably the most underrated WWE worker of the year honestly, with the following credentials behind him :

- Great Rumble Performance
- Fantastic Performance @ NWO against the Big Show
- Solid performance @ Wrestlemania
- Awesome performance @ Vengeance against a young John Cena
- completely carrying the A-Train to a solid match @ Summerslam
- BEAST MODE performance against Lesnar @ No Mercy (one of the many underrated matches of Taker's career)
- Fun, FUN squash of Vince @ Survivor Series
- One of the greatest TV matches ever against Angle on Smackdown
- Fantastic TV match against John Cena
- Short but awesome match against REY

I wouldn't call him WOTY (It's BROCK for me, with Benoit and Angle Close) but I'll be damned if that's not a ridiculously consistent year. Not GOAT or even close to being Taker's best year but underrated regardless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll agree with everything except the complete carry job of A-Train. God damn that guy gets zero credit for when he's actually shown to be worth something.

Oh wait, don't agree about the Biker Chain match. It's very boring for me. I lose interest every single time I watch.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Random matches from '95

Bret Hart Vs Diesel - ****1/2
1-2-3 Kid Vs Hakushi - ***1/4 
Shawn Michaels Vs Razor Ramon - ****3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah A-Train is great, and he was back then. Always liked his matches with 'Taker (I wanna say they had a TV match too... fuck knows).

More awesomeness from Undertaker in 03 involves anything he did on TV with Lesnar and Big Show.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love that biker chain match, held close to four stars on my last watch. NO MERCY 2003 man, that's where it's at for sure. Chris Benoit vs A FUCKING TRAIN fucking rocks and again, it's another match that's close to four stars. Same with Rey-Tajiri (which is fucking ballin'), Angle-Cena (their best match together by far and a legit near classic), and the unexpectedly great Vince vs Stephanie that actually ROCKED.

OH SHIT, come to think of it, why didn't I include that show in my list of shows that prpbably scored 20+ on the CAL SCALE. That show was so fucking awesome, Smackdown in 2003,2006, and 2009 = LOVE LOVE LOVE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Yeah A-Train is great, and he was back then. Always liked his matches with 'Taker (I wanna say they had a TV match too... fuck knows).
> 
> More awesomeness from Undertaker in 03 involves anything he did on TV with Lesnar and Big Show.







Too lazy to look up the date atm. Maybe in a sec, idk.

btw, you enjoy the Biker Chain match from No Mercy, Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

January 23rd 2003
March 6th 2003

2 matches between Taker and A-Train that year on SD. A tag two, but it has Orlando Jordan in it so fuck that.

I used to not be a fan of the Biker Chain match, but on last watch I really liked it. ***1/2 for it probs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I love that biker chain match, held close to four stars on my last watch. NO MERCY 2003 man, that's where it's at for sure. Chris Benoit vs A FUCKING TRAIN fucking rocks and again, it's another match that's close to four stars. Same with Rey-Tajiri (which is fucking ballin'), Angle-Cena (their best match together by far and a legit near classic), and the unexpectedly great Vince vs Stephanie that actually ROCKED.
> 
> OH SHIT, come to think of it, why didn't I include that show in my list of shows that prpbably scored 20+ on the CAL SCALE. That show was so fucking awesome, Smackdown in 2003,2006, and 2009 = LOVE LOVE LOVE.


(Y)

No Mercy 2003 rocks.



Big Z said:


> January 23rd 2003
> March 6th 2003
> 
> 2 matches between Taker and A-Train that year on SD. A tag two, but it has Orlando Jordan in it so fuck that.
> ...


Wasn't sure if one followed Summerslam. Guess not.

I could try it again, but eh. I don't know if it will change. Something about it turns me off about 10 minutes or so in. I do love seeing Taker dive on the FBI. _(random interference. their gripes never seemed to end.)_


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Just got the episode of Raw when Nexus invade.

They TORE SHIT UP :mark:

I mean really great, just destroyed Cena and the whole Raw set and crew. Knowing what awaits them later in 2010 is quite upsetting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nexus being plagued by injuries stuck a wrench in plans too. Not so much with Tarver, but losing Skip/Ryback was a blow. He was their beast. Made an impact with the crew each time.

Never understood the "exile" of Young. Bet they wouldn't have done it if they knew the future with the injuries.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Even though the Nexus turned out to be what it turned out to be, their debut was awesome. Sadly, that was their high point. I almost forget that Bryan got fired for his actions that night with Justin Roberts. Bryan being gone from the group didn't really help their cause, either. Losing a guy who could consistently have quality matches with almost anyone on the roster would have been a plus for the group.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I didn't know there were injuries to their group that year, see this is why i shouldn't miss complete years.

But fuck just the way King and Cole even get up and walk away on the next show when they are in the ring just extenuates the uncomfortable feeling on Raw at the moment, this year is starting to pick up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan getting fired sucked too. Turned out great for him in the end, but who knows what he could have done if he stayed in the group.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another bit of unfortunate luck. With the hiccups, I still think the group went on to be pretty strong for the time they were around & credible.

Don't get me started when Punk started attacking Cena. Ended the year by putting on the Nexus armband. Oh man. :mark: _(yeah, New Nexus was only decent at best, but the prospect was mark city)_


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

In regards to the low rating for the handicap match, I'm not intentionally digging at Big Show or A-Train I just really didn't enjoy the handicap situation itself. Nathan Jones coming down to save the day didn't interest me either. Would of much preferred A-Train or Big Show in a singles match with The Undertaker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Judgment Day 2006:*

MNM vs Paul London & Brian Kendrick - ★★★½
- This is one of the most fun tag team matches I've seen. MNM are just wonderful as the heel team using some cool dirty tactics such as the boot on the turnbuckle while London and Kendrick are so full of energy and very athletic. London specially impresses me every time. His Dropsault turned into a pin cover was just amazing. These two teams mesh well together and as result we get this great opener. Londrick finally become tag team champions and the crowd also pops big time for them which was a pleasant surprise as they have been usually quiet for them. Post-match we witness the split of MNM as Nitro and Melina turn on Mercury and assault him. Melina is a total psycho and seeing her scream in the referee's ear to stop a pinfall and then kick him in the nuts post-match was just hilarious. :lmao

Chris Benoit vs Finlay - ★★★★¼
- Is there anything that needs to be said? Everyone here has been heavily praising this match and for good reason. Just a fine mat wrestling display for 20 minutes with both men doing it like always by being stiff and very intense. Even though their Smackdown match was excellent, they manage to put on an even better match here. Finlay controls a large portion of it and just by great mat wrestling, he manages to turn the crowd against him and to root for Benoit even more. Benoit does a great job selling and comes back in the end with the Crossface for the submission win. This match is proof you don't need a fancy storyline to put on a show. It wasn't even announced until a freaking press conference ffs and Benoit was omitted from the go-home SD episode.

Jillian Hall vs Melina - ★¼
- A lot better than I expected it to be. Jillian can perform some moves pretty well and Melina with her constant screaming is like a psychopath. Specially when she does that move where Jillian gets dropped on her back from the second turnbuckle downwards. Very short and harmless. Following this, Melina and Nitro lose it backstage and Teddy Long ends up getting slapped so in return, he fires them both. Que Raw draft in the coming weeks!

Gregory Helms vs Super Crazy - ★★½
- Kind of one sided. Crazy is on a roll with his usual high-flying offense and fans cheer him big time while Helms half-asses it and mostly sticks to restholds. It's fun while it lasts and is decent enough. As usual, Helms retains and uses the ropes for leverage to get his unclean victory.

Mark Henry vs Kurt Angle - ★★★
- This is a lot better than their dull Royal Rumble match. Angle works pretty well as the intense wrestling machine who has a size disadvantage and has to work hard to get the upper-hand while Henry is the great monster heel he's shown himself to be. They also sell their tension pretty well as Henry tries to splash Angle through the table while Angle tries to German Suplex him through that announce table. At nine minutes, it does feel kinda short plus Henry winning by countout without even doing a finisher felt kinda flat. But the post-match assault when Angle completely destroys him makes up for it. I liked how they improvised when the Angle Slam failed to break the announce table so Angle hits him with a chair to the head and Henry falls flat through the table, breaking it at last. Surprised that they didn't go for the Spanish table this time, though.

Booker T vs Bobby Lashley - ★★½
- Here we come to the King of the Ring final round. Another match that lasts just below 10 minutes. In this case, it helped, though. Was a pretty dull first 5 minutes but then gets better when they start a finisher fest of sorts. Booker T at least from his stuff here in WWE gets kind of dull in longer match-ups but at 10 minutes, he works fine if given a good opponent. This one is just that and thankfully, we didn't get another dull match like the first round battle with Matt Hardy that felt like forever. Booker wins after Finlay interferes for some reason and now is King BOOKAH born! Funny ending as he prepares to wear the KOTR outfit only for Lashley to Spear him onto the chair.

The Great Khali vs Undertaker - ★
- Khali is pure shit and this is no different. To Undertaker's credit, he does all he can to make this watchable but it's just hard to get much out of Khali. He can barely move and the only thing he delivers are his shitty Chops of Doom. But since Taker is larger than the average opponent, he also throws a few punches which are not bad. Any good out of this match comes from Taker as the crowd is largely behind him and the huge reaction when he kicks out of Khali's finisher the first time. A complete waste to give Khali a clean victory, though.

Rey Mysterio vs JBL - ★★★¾
- JBL is just so good at being the big douchebag who you want to see get fucked up. The way he taunts Rey's wife is vintage heel shit. After being booked like a chump for weeks, Rey is booked fairly well here as he can get some offense on JBL without this "underdog" nonsense coming into play. I also liked how he messed with referee's mind by pointing towards the crowd so he would dropkick JBL's balls. A very good match with great timing and work from both men. I do wish they had already killed the Eddie exploitation at this point but what can ya do? And Rey using a Frog Splash after his 619 to end it was a nice touch to close this. Chavo comes out post-match to congratulate him which means sadly, this is not the last we see of Vince raping Eddie's corpse with the pointless obsessing over him.

*Overall:* ★★★¾ out of ★★★★★ (A great PPV with two great matches and some decent stuff on the rest of the card. The "bad" stuff aren't really that bad either so it only helps make this a strong PPV. Worth owning just for Benoit/Finlay alone to be honest.)

P.S. who can forget the epic theme? EVEN THROUGH THE DARKEST DAYS! THIS FIRE BURNS! AAAAAAAAAAAALWAAAAAAAAAAAAYS!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booker vs Lashley is bad. Bless the awesome crowd for making it watchable at least.

Helms doesn't half ass anything. Helms is the MAN.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just a bit too much resthold which is not what I want in cruiserweight matches. Half ass might have been the wrong word.

And I forgot to mention that in the main event, I didn't like it when the referee was counting Rey out inside the ring as if it was a LMS match. That took a bit away from it. And in addition, the myth looks to be true here too. I'm talking about wrestling JBL resulting in bad things happening to you. Eddie in 2004 needs no words, Cena has bled the most he ever has in 2005 and in 2006, the masked Rey Mysterio was also bloody around the eye. JBL's Judgment Day opponents are cursed!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I made the point about blood jokingly when the event came around. 3 times in and 3 times out the match resulted in bloodshed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I made the point about blood jokingly when the event came around. 3 times in and 3 times out the match resulted in bloodshed.


But it wore off for his second run as Cena exit JD 2008 unharmed. Not that it was hard to do since JBL just had him in restholds for the most part and he only hit one freaking move with the FU and won.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I love that Benoit/Finlay match. I have it at ***3/4 but can't argue it being a little higher. One of my personal favorites.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do restholds mean he did nothing in his approach except for a headlock or was it a case of not enough MOVEZ?

b/c Show vs Cena from Judgment Day 2009 owns and that's based off a very simple formula. Same complaint by knuckleheads on the finish. _"one FU and he wins. this is the worst match ever."_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Do restholds mean he did nothing in his approach except for a headlock or was it a case of not enough MOVEZ?
> 
> b/c Show vs Cena from Judgment Day 2009 owns and that's based off a very simple formula. Same complaint by knuckleheads on the finish. _"one FU and he wins. this is the worst match ever."_


The match is like 10 minutes long and the only MOVEZ are nothing more than your typical punch exchanges, whipped into the corner, boot to the face and the type. It's like an even worse version than their WM21 match with Cena getting in ZERO offense. And when I talk about resthold, I mean it. Bradshaw has Cena in a leg-scissor for like 3 minutes if I'm not mistaken. Then somehow, it ends up with him going for the clothesline which Cena ducks and then it's the FU for the victory. That's pretty much it and any complaint about that match is legitimate.

I have nothing against simple formulas if they are done well. Big Show vs Cena at WM20 has just that and it's a good match as far as I'm concerned. JBL vs Cena at Judgment Day Part II _doesn't_ have that. But if you want, you can check it out and _judge_ it for yourself. Maybe you get something out of it that I didn't. I even provide the link below.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5hvge_judgment-day-2008-jbl-vs-john-cena_sport#.USg27bX3CKI

(Note that I watched it over a year ago so I may recall some things wrong. All I can tell is that it was _boring_.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match goes 15 iirc.

I'll give a watch. What the hell.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Show/Cena from Judgment Day 09 is an awful match in my opinion. I have it at *3/4 and I like both guys. They just seem to not mesh well together.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Big Show vs John Cena at No Way Out 2012 is certainly better than their Judgement day match. They made Big Show look like an unstoppable force in that match because he actually had Cena beat CLEAN but 3 or 4 'superstars' helped prevent Big Show escape from the cage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> Show/Cena from Judgment Day 09 is an awful match in my opinion. I have it at *3/4 and I like both guys. They just seem to not mesh well together.


False. Most of their matches together work, if not are all good. Smackdown match in 2009 is excellent.



Oliver-94 said:


> Big Show vs John Cena at No Way Out 2012 is certainly better than their Judgement day match. They made Big Show look like an unstoppable force in that match because he actually had Cena beat CLEAN but 3 or 4 'superstars' helped prevent Big Show escape from the cage.


Judgment Day has it comfortably beat. The cage could curry a bit more favor for me whenever I get around to seeing it again.

-----------

In regards to Judgment Day 2008 between John Cena and JBL. Yeah it is MUCH better than WrestleMania 21. Right from the outset it was an immediate improvement. I wouldn't claim anything was a resthold either except for the second headlock/body scissors falling the full nelson spot. Rest was all fitting tactics for JBL to breakdown Cena's body. I was digging the methodical pacing. Cena was a step behind the entire match, but it wasn't a complete domination much like how WM was. JBL applied a submission hold to each part damaged in the wake of the match. _(the day a top wristlock is a resthold when actually used to inflict damage on a hurt arm/shoulder is the day I lose touch with wrestling.)_ Cena managed to use his power every single time following each predicament JBL had him in. Nice touch to the match. Kept that aspect of Cena's game alive. The only thing I think some lose touch with is how you would have expected the match to be a brawl - much like how JR pimped it would be during the entrances. It led you to believe something and then get the opposite of it. The ebb and flow of the match was on point. Crowd was digging it. All in all a good match. Glad I finally got around to seeing it. Btw, the leg scissor spot lasts about 30 seconds. Not quite 3 minutes.

***


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I guess my memory has failed me. But WM21 was not quite as one-sided as you make it sound on that post. Cena did get quite a bit of offense in towards the end, got stopped by a boot to the face and ducked a clothesline for the FU. One of moves that I fondly remember is turning a top rope move to a powerslam.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Thanks very much for those mate  There are a couple with Benjamin which are decent too arn't there?


Yes. I believe those were from 2009.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*John Cena vs. The Rock - Wrestlemania XXVIII: ***1/4*

Since Wrestlemania 29 is coming up and Cena vs. Rock II is inevitable, I thought I would watch their first encounter. The first time I watched this match, I thought it didn't live up to the hype or build (not that the build was good anyway) and was downright boring but I thought I was unfair since I watched three hours of the event prior to the match. I thought I would give this match a fair watch and now, I think it's decent. Cena working on the Rock's ribs and the commentators talking about how Rock's ring rust might affect his performance was a nice touch. I thought the match dragged on for too long but it picked up towards the end. I thought the ending was great with Cena biting off more than he could chew by attempting to do the People's Elbow and how it cost him the match. The huge pop after Rock's win made this match a little better. Overall, decent match, dragged on for too long, hopefully the second encounter's better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I guess my memory has failed me. But WM21 was not quite as one-sided as you make it sound on that post. Cena did get quite a bit of offense in towards the end, got stopped by a boot to the face and ducked a clothesline for the FU. One of moves that I fondly remember is turning a top rope move to a powerslam.


Cena didn't get any offense in till about the 9 minute mark. And the work prior to it was beyond dull & uninspired, so it made the one-sided factor incredibly piss poor. There is no saving the Mania match. A total DUD. The magnitude behind it only effects what was given.

I should find the street fight from RAW in 2008 between John-boy & JBL. See if it holds up compared to the rest. It seems the only lost cause is Mania.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought Cena/Big Show at WM20 was a decent start to the event, Much better than their later encounters.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I take it you've never seen the 2/27/09 match?

14 matches between the two. Seen most in a recent capacity. No doubt that one I listed is their absolute best. Wonder how their first holds up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Why does the WWE insist on torturing me with their shitty Santino segments on a "Best Of 2012" set? SANTINO DOING STUPID SHIT IS NOT WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER TO BE THE "BEST OF" 20-FUCKING-12.

That Wrestlemania XXI match between Cena and JBL is SOOOO shitty and uninspired. The Ruthless Agression Era is my favorite era in all of wrestling but GOD DAMN was that a bad match to represent it or what ? Worst WWE Championship match in.... Well, up until Wrestlemania 27 of course. 

Going to post the next five on my Mania list shortly .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd actually take Cena/Miz over Cena/JBL off the top of my head. I've seen the WM 21 match LOADS more so the punishment of seeing it is seared into my brain. It's not like what I'm saying here is a compliment or anything.

Time for Punker vs Henry No DQ. Only seen this one once. So :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WATCHED IT LAST NIGHT.

KICKS ASS :mark: .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Most Underrated Match Ever = Eddie/Mysterio at WM21

I thought it was much better than Shawn/Angle, Taker/Orton and all the other matches excluding MITB of course.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> WATCHED IT LAST NIGHT.
> 
> KICKS ASS :mark: .


(Y)

Great match. I'll still have the 4/2 match a notch above it. Can't go wrong with either. No DQ stip added some fun to the mix here. Got to love Henry only getting to work so many matches in 2012 and making the two that count worth something. He wasn't even 100% either iirc. Which explains all of the short matches against credible opponents. At least he got some squash matches in the process.

I should try and see how many good matches came from RAW in 2012. I got off the top of my head Punk vs Danielson x2, Punk vs Henry x2, Cena vs Danielson, Cena vs Punk, Danielson vs Mysterio, Sheamus vs Cesaro, Show, & a bunch of other guys. I think it might stick around that central area. Which is why I often say there is no midcard in WWE. All matches were main event level types. Not a negative in 100% of the context, I suppose.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingOfKings Top 50 Wrestlemania Matches Of All Time : 30-26


30. _"Undertaker going for the last ride...BUT THE GAME HAS GOT THAT DAMN SLEDGEHAMMER!"_










The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania X-7) : ******


29. _"STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD!"_










WWF Championship - Shawn Michaels(c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV) : ******


28. _"The Streak will be just like you...DEAD"_










The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI) : ******


27. _"The Mega Powers Explode"_










WWF Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V) : ******


26. _"Tonight, fairytales do come true... BANG BANG!"_










WWF Championship - Triple H(c) vs Mick Foley vs The Rock vs The Big Show (A McMahon in every corner Elimination Match ; Wrestlemania 2000) : ******




Here we are, halfway through the countdown with anything too ridiculous that jumps out right off the bat. The Wrestlemania 2000 main event to me is the "forgotten" Mania main event that hasn't been released on any official WWE comps yet which is a shame considering it captures HHH in his prime working with three of the guys he has superb chemistry with in Foley, Rock, and Show. Makes no sense to me how MIZ-CENA is frequently talked about by WWE and released on DVD while this match isn't.

The Wrestlemania X-7 match between Triple H and Undertaker is Taker's first four star match in his epic Wrestlemania streak and easily his best up to that point. The Wrestlemania XXI match between Taker and Orton was a fantastic contest and an even better one than HHH-Taker I, but was it the best streak match by that point ? We'll find out in a little bit.

Steve Austin vs Shawn Michaels is more of a polarizing match than one would think. I've seen it rated anywhere from three stars to four and a half, and personally I believe it's a damn near classic match that perfectly sends SHAWN ON COKE off into the sunset while the attitude era goes into full swing. Not as good as their KOTR match for sure (even Austin admits that), but a great, GREAT Wrestlemania match.

Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage is one of the greatest carry jobs of all time, no questions asked. It was a hell of a performance by Savage and I think he deserves all the credit in the fucking world for this one. I don't have much left to say about it but DAMN, no wonder Savage was the first Mr. Wrestlemania.

Next time we have three matches that are going to make Cody want to take a sharp object to the brain, and another two matches from one of the greatest of all time.



Spoiler: The List So Far



50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV)
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX)
48. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV)
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI)
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII)
45. Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII)
44. The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII)
43. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV)
42. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7)
41. Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII)
40. Batista vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI)
39. CM Punk vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXVII)
38. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania X-8)
37. Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI)
36. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania XXIV)
35. Christian vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XX)
34. Mick Foley vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXII)
33. Triple H vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX)
32. TLC II (Wrestlemania X-7)
31. MITB IV (Wrestlemania XXIV)
30. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7)
29. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV)
28. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI)
27. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
26. Triple H vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 2000)


​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Almost there to the bunch I disapprove of? CAN'T WAIT.

Although one made the list. 4 way elimination match from WM 16. Not for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All that and I don't get any STARZ*! in response ? Not impressed .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Undertaker vs Triple H ~ ***1/2 _(Always a ton of fun. Love the VINCE SHOULD BY TEXAS sign you see when they're brawling on the camera set-up.)_

Steve Austin vs Shawn Michaels ~ N/A _(same thing as Austin vs Rock from WM 15.)_

The Undertaker vs Randy Orton ~ ****1/4 mark

Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage ~ **** _(One of my favorites. Seen it idk how many times. "Puke-amania is running out, Monsoon." - Jesse Ventura. I'll never forget that.)_

Triple H vs The Rock vs Mick Foley vs Big Show ~ **1/2 _(nothing more than a bit above average if you ask me. Show being eliminated in 4 minutes is the worst. Foley gets his moment, but wished he too would have lasted longer. Meanwhile Trips & Rock's final portion went on WAY too long for me. Damn Attitude Era and their brawls.)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the Cena/ADR FCA match from last year ?

Just about to watch this fucker right now.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The broken ring was the most interesting thing about the match. Never got the hate vibe from either man in that match. I think theres one point where Del Rio's down by the barrier and some fans help him up :lol . Around **3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

To tell you the truth all I remember is the finish. I should scope that one out myself. Cena vs Del Rio from Smackdown 11/30/12 is GREAT. I'll plug that for now.

Oh, and Sheamus vs Danielson Street Fight from 7/30/12 = YES.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You're referring to the Vengeance 2011 LMS, I'm referring to a Falls Count Anywhere match they had on RAW around September 2012 (Haven't looked at the date) . The Vengeance match is alright I suppose, a TON of fun for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait, only **3/4 for that LMS? I loved the hell out of it. Easy ****1/4 for myself. It was one of the most fun I had watching a WWE match in all of 2011. Has to be my favorite Del Rio match in his WWE tenure too. Yeah, ladder vs Christian was quite good. Nothing I'd slate as great. This trumped it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If anybody is interested, I am planning on reviewing the Juventud/Kidman WCW series. This thread has provided me with so many great matches, and I feel that it is only right to attempt to repay the favor. Bear with me, as I have never done full-length reviews before, but I would love any feedback. Hopefully I can finish the project by the end of the weekend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's one strong set of matches right there. Should be a fun read. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania X-7) ****1/2 (really love this match)
Shawn Michaels(c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV) **** (in the curcumstances, they did a great job IMHO)
The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI) ****1/4
Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V) ****1/4 (maybe ****1/2, need to watch it again)
Triple H(c) vs Mick Foley vs The Rock vs The Big Show (Wrestlemania 2000) ***3/4 (need to watch this again, rating based on my crap memory)


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Here is my rating on the KOK top 50 WM matches:

50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV) - ****
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX) - ***1/2
48. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV) - ***1/2
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI) - ***1/4
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII) - ***1/4
45. Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII) - ***
44. The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII) - ***1/2
43. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ***3/4
42. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7) - ***3/4
41. Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII) - ***1/4
40. Batista vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI) - ****
39. CM Punk vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXVII) - ***1/2
38. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania X-8) - ****
37. Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI) - ****
36. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ***3/4
35. Christian vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XX) - ***1/2
34. Mick Foley vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXII) - ****1/4
33. Triple H vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX) - ***1/2
32. TLC II (Wrestlemania X-7) - ****1/2
31. MITB IV (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ***3/4
30. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7) - ****
29. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV) - ***3/4
28. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI) - ****1/4
27. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V) - ****
26. Triple H vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 2000) - ***1/2


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Undertaker vs Triple H - ****
Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin - ***3/4
Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan - N/A (Don't remember this at all)
The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - ****1/4

Edit: Triple H vs Mick Foley vs Big Show vs The Rock - ***


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker vs Triple H was far superior to Undertaker vs Randy Orton IMO, The only real enjoyable moment was the ending while the latter was an all out fun brawl.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Bugger it full top 50 so far rankings


50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV) - ****1/4
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX) - ***1/4
48. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV) - ***1/2
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI) - ***1/2
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII) - ***
45. Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII) - **
44. The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII) - ***3/4
43. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV) - **3/4
42. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7) - ***3/4
41. Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII) - ***1/2
40. Batista vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI) - ***1/2
39. CM Punk vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXVII) - **3/4
38. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania X-8) - ***
37. Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI) - ***1/2
36. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ****1/2
35. Christian vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XX) - ***1/4
34. Mick Foley vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXII) - ****1/2
33. Triple H vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX) - ***
32. TLC II (Wrestlemania X-7) - ****
31. MITB IV (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ***3/4
30. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7) - ***1/2
29. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV) - ****
28. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI) - ***
27. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V) - ****1/2


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

1996 randomness

Undertaker vs Bret Hart (RR) - ****
Bret Hart vs Diesel (IYH 6) - *3/4 
Undertaker vs Diesel (WM XII) - **1/2
Shawn Michaels vs British Bulldog (IYH 8) - ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll take the one Undertaker vs Orton WM match over all 3 Undertaker vs Triple H matches.

Without even thinking twice.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I'll take the one Undertaker vs Orton WM match over all 3 Undertaker vs Triple H matches.
> 
> Without even thinking twice.


Interesting. I can see why some people would take it over the latest two matches, even I might, but I'm a huge mark for their WM17 match so I'd keep that above it imo. Gotta love that chokeslam into RKO counter though. :yum:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Oh jesus, XWT is down.

I may have a little cry.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Interesting. I can see why some people would take it over the latest two matches, even I might, but I'm a huge mark for their WM17 match so I'd keep that above it imo. Gotta love that chokeslam into RKO counter though. :yum:


Yea, Undertaker/Triple H should be regarded as MOTN but people think Austin/Rock was a better wrestling match fpalm when the only thing good about it was the storytelling and the underwhelming Austin "heel" turn.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM 27 match is weak. 28's is quite strong. Not on par with the excellent Taker/Orton match though. 

17 is fun personified. It gets overrated though. I guess that's natural. It's so much fun I can understand why a lot choose to hide the negatives and look at the positives.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> WM 27 match is weak. 28's is quite strong. Not on par with the excellent Taker/Orton match though.
> 
> 17 is fun personified. It gets overrated though. I guess that's natural. It's so much fun I can understand why a lot choose to hide the negatives and look at the positives.


If anything, The WM28 match was the weakest of all three. It relied on psychology and storytelling rather than actual wrestling or brawling. It even felt like a cheesy dramatic play at times, Their WM27 & WM17 felt like a brutal brawl to no man's ending with excellent finishings on each side.

I would rate their WM matches like this:

1. WM17
2. WM27
3. WM28

And how ironic that 10 years after WM17, They would be facing each other again at WM27 and also WM27 was officially announced as a "No Holds Barred" match while their WM17 match became a No Holds Barred match when the referee got knocked out during the match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> If anything, The WM28 match was the weakest of all three. It relied on psychology and storytelling rather than actual wrestling or brawling. It even felt like a cheesy dramatic play at times, Their WM27 & WM17 felt like a brutal brawl to no man's ending with excellent finishings on each side.
> 
> I would rate their WM matches like this:
> 
> ...


Excellent post. I totally agree here. That's exactly how I'd rank the matches too.

And your last point - people always seem to think the WM17 match was announced as a no holds barred match, but as you said it only turned into that after the referee was knocked down.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> If anything, The WM28 match was the weakest of all three. It relied on psychology and storytelling rather than actual wrestling or brawling. It even felt like a cheesy dramatic play at times, Their WM27 & WM17 felt like a brutal brawl to no man's ending with excellent finishings on each side.
> 
> I would rate their WM matches like this:
> 
> ...


WM 17 is such a linear match. Brawl, ref dies for 10 minutes, brawl in crowd, blade job, last ride, done. A wildly fun time. Nothing greater.

WM 27 is a laughable excuse for a match really. Tries so hard and fails to be an "epic". Nothing about it is very redeeming outside of two guys who know how to work a match so it wasn't a complete waste of time. Not worth seeing whatsoever.

WM relied on story/psychology and it was bad? After reading such daft thinking I shouldn't have even responded. Wrestling is built around storytelling. Focusing on such an aspect _isn't_ a negative. Shawn got over the top with his antics. Big deal. Apparently an oversell by a ref in one match is ok. Or apparently trying too hard in the other is logical. But, Shawn Michaels acting crazy to put the match over is too much and hurt the bout. The logic there is lacking.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I've never heard anyone refer to 17 as No Holds Barred, I have heard it referred to many times as "That match where the referee falls gently and is knocked out for 12 minutes" many times though. Wrestlingfan, are you trying to say psychology and storytelling isn't needed in wrestling? Because if so... what? (Edit: Fuck Sabin beat me and responded better, if I didn't love him I'd call him a prick.... fucking prick)

27>28>>>>>.17 btw.

'Taker/Orton does nothing for me, nothing at all, much as I actually enjoy Orton (or enjoyed) his big matches folk talk about do nothing for me, I mean I'm a massive Foley nut and I'd give Orton/Cactus like ***1/4 (Fuck a dumb Fire Marshall)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ninja'ed my man.

Craig not even a fan of Foley's dance with Orton, waah?

Just when you think a match is universally loved.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't think WrestlingFan is saying storytelling and psychology aren't needed in wrestling, because obviously that's absurd. I think he's saying that the WM28 match almost had too much storytelling. I'm not really explaining it very well. What I mean is, I've watched that match twice and both times I've been enthralled by the psychology and the way the story played out, but simply as a match it was pretty average. Of course, put the two aspects together and the match takes another step up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I don't think WrestlingFan is saying storytelling and psychology aren't needed in wrestling, because obviously that's absurd. I think he's saying that the WM28 match almost had too much storytelling. I'm not really explaining it very well. What I mean is, I've watched that match twice and both times I've been enthralled by the psychology and the way the story played out, but simply as a match it was pretty average. *Of course, put the two aspects together and the match takes another step up.*


That's the whole point.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

That makes no sense, either the match was average or it was good, wrestling and storytelling are the same thing... unless you're Kurt Angle in which case storytelling is some strange black magic.

I get what you're saying I just wanted to rip on Angle to be honest (Fuck a dumb Angle)


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

By the way Cody when it comes to Orton/Foley you've got to take into account that I didn't watch wrestling from 01-mid 05, I thought I'd grown out of it at 9 (ha) and stopped entirely, got back into it thanks to Foley's first two books and the Rey/Eddie feud got me back into the TV show, then Angle/Taker happened and I was completely hooked then FOLEY FOLEY FOLEY VS EDGE and my god that's possibly my favourite WWE storyline ever and then I went back to Orton/Foley and it ust felt like.... a step down I guess, and fuck a dumb fire marshall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig said:


> By the way Cody when it comes to Orton/Foley you've got to take into account that I didn't watch wrestling from 01-mid 05, I thought I'd grown out of it at 9 (ha) and stopped entirely, got back into it thanks to Foley's first two books and the Rey/Eddie feud got me back into the TV show, then Angle/Taker happened and I was completely hooked then FOLEY FOLEY FOLEY VS EDGE and my god that's possibly my favourite WWE storyline ever and then I went back to Orton/Foley and it ust felt like.... a step down I guess, and fuck a dumb fire marshall.


I imagine something about Orton throws you off?...

...and a fire marshal shutting down Backlash b/c apparently fire isn't used in Canada. _(was legit in Chicago vs Edge though_ 8*D)

Seeing the entire culmination for the Foley/Orton feud helped too. _(throwing it out there, idk.)_ Foley made the kid that night, so there's that. Plus, Foley's promo talking about what Hardcore means to him leading into the match is the tops.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HIGH AS FUCK KENNY NEEDS SOMETHING TO WATCH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JOHN CENA VS MICHAEL COLE FROM 6/4/12


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think I see what the guys are saying re. Taker/HHH. The story was present but sometimes as good a story is, you need the performers to enhance the basic story through sequences, selling emotion through their facial expressions as well as their physical selling etc. There's clearly a story in Taker/HHH which stems back to Flair/HBK and eventually Taker/HBK in terms of Taker being the true Phenom and the lengths beating him will drive a man. I can't watch Taker/HHH and say there was no storytelling, because that's just asinine. Its clear they're painting the picture of how far HHH will go to do what no man has done before and how Taker's strength and resilience will force HHH and HBK into a place they'd rather avoid. However I found the pace plodding and the actual work to be sub standard and to me it was a case where as clear a story as there was, there wasn't much in terms of the performance from both that magnified that story and thus whilst I can see the appeal in the match I'm not a big fan and whilst the story is there for all to see, it feels like the story was all I could take away from the match.

Eh, not the best explanation. Basically whilst the story is there, the work from Taker and HHH in between the clear narrative was plodding and lacking in true suspense outside of a couple of sequences and I find overall to be a less than special match.

But yeah, anyone who says storytelling in its most literal sense detracts from the match really needs to get a perspective. Not directing that at anyone here, more than just a general statement.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/HHH WM - 28 > 27 >>>> 17


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

sriously tho wat should i watch


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

In short I don't think Undertaker and Trips have a real magical chemistry with one another. They throw bombs and whatnot, but that's about it. Undertaker vs so many other people tends to be better. Trips is well...ok.

Kenny go with Raven vs Perry Saturn vs Kanyon from Road Wild '98.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> In short I don't think Undertaker and Trips have a real magical chemistry with one another. They throw bombs and whatnot, but that's about it. Undertaker vs so many other people tends to be better. Trips is well...ok.


Yeah, there's a story present in both 27 and 28 but there's just not enough in the actual work (offence, selling, timing, pacing and emoting) for me to really get lost in the story and let it magnify the match and increase the sense of drama in everything they do. There can always be a story generally in a match, whether its rookie vs veteran, big vs small, technical vs power, babyface vs babyface with a bit of increasing violence, heel vs heel. There's generally a working story between the two characters, but its how they interpret and develop the basic story into the match that makes me love it that much more and that's something I don't think Taker and HHH did.

Still not going to pretend I can't see the appeal in the match though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im going to watch some ddp shit


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah, there's a story present in both 27 and 28 but there's just not enough in the actual work (offence, selling, timing, pacing and emoting) for me to really get lost in the story and let it magnify the match and increase the sense of drama in everything they do. There can always be a story generally in a match, whether its rookie vs veteran, big vs small, technical vs power, babyface vs babyface with a bit of increasing violence, heel vs heel. There's generally a working story between the two characters, but its how they interpret and develop the basic story into the match that makes me love it that much more and that's something I don't think Taker and HHH did.
> 
> Still not going to pretend I can't see the appeal in the match though.


It certainly wasn't the case for me with WM 27. 28 I am a tad on the fence with after only seeing it twice. For owning the show I've sure not gone around to watching it a lot. Not a good excuse b/c I've popped in Punk vs Jericho a ton. Soooo, I suppose on a most recent watch I can give a better interpretation of it. Without the glow of being "live" next to it. I could still see myself liking it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Read some reviews of the match before you watch it too. I've sometimes found that I can see a match in a whole different light after reading someone else' thoughts on it first. Things I never noticed/didn't see that way before might be hitting me right in the face on the next watch. Not saying that reading a review from someone that loved the shit out of it will make you love the shit out of it, but maybe help you see why they love the shit out of it at least, and maybe help you enjoy it a little more if you see the match similar to how they see it. All about interpreting the match and whatnot lmao at the guy in here years ago who said wrestling isn't up for interpretation); people see it differently, and sometimes you can't see it the same as other people and sometimes reading/listening to how exactly they see it can help.

Was that paragraph a load of bull btw? I'm only recently up (lazy bastard, I know) and I ain't fully woke up and shit and I'm 99.9% sure I didn't write that out the way I would have liked. FUCK YOU.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think there was a basic story in 27. HHH will try and win the match by forcing a pace and style that suits him, rather than a feeling out process and taking things slow. What followed was just reinforcing the brutality and punishment Taker could withstand and overcome to preserve the streak and the lengths HHH would have to go to in order to put him down. It wasn't a ground-breaking story and I don't believe they executed or injected it well enough into the match in order to really create a gripping spectacle, but I can see a clear and basic story even if I don't consider it a particularly great or engaging story.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WM 28 used too much psychology and storytelling if you ask me, It was even to the point where i felt i was watching a soap opera. Psychology and storytelling are good in a match as long as actual wrestling is thrown into the mix and looking at the wrestling from a viewer standpoint, It's just very average. They barely used the cell as a weapon, Chairs were the main type of offense while brutal to watch risk Hunter's and Taker's health. Not allowing them to appear at the next wrestling event plus pure wrestling or brawling is always more fun to watch and finally, The talking between all three people in the ring made it feel so damn cheesy. 

"End it shawn or i will" 
"He's not gonna give up" 
"Just cover him"
"Stop!!!"
"Please, Let me stop it"

fpalm


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

anything good to watch from this past week tna aswell?


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

The cell was pretty much there to let the fans know they shouldn't expect 'Taker's big plancha ('cause if he went for that he'd collapse into dust) and to add a few buys for the people who go "OMG CELL".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hear ya, Cal. Most of the time it never factors in for me, however. I always tend to view what I see. Much like I did tonight with Choke2Death putting down Cena vs JBL from Judgment Day 2008. Proceeded to watch it immediately after his post and really dug it.

I've stated my gripes on Taker vs Trips 27 enough. I'll steal a line from Family Guy and claim it insists upon itself and I'm not a fan.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree with you Cody. I'm not a fan of either of the matches tbh and find them the example of where the WWE Main Event Style can get so caught up in the presentation of spectacle and creating a larger than life atmosphere that the little things that can create a great match in between the story and characters gets lost and the match suffers as a result with the story and character dynamic alone unable to carry the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> WM 28 used too much psychology and storytelling if you ask me, It was even to the point where i felt i was watching a soap opera. Psychology and storytelling are good in a match as long as actual wrestling is thrown into the mix and looking at the wrestling from a viewer standpoint, It's just very average. They barely used the cell as a weapon, Chairs were the main type of offense while brutal to watch risk Hunter's and Taker's health. Not allowing them to appear at the next wrestling event plus pure wrestling or brawling is always more fun to watch and finally, The talking between all three people in the ring made it feel so damn cheesy.
> 
> "End it shawn or i will"
> "He's not gonna give up"
> ...


but, the chairs were used to the HEAD in the match at 27. The danger in that was much more severe than it was at 28.



King Kenny said:


> anything good to watch from this past week tna aswell?


Garett Bischoff had a tolerable 5 minute match for TV. It was mind blowing. The opener had 5 of the best characters in the promotion in it & main event was a decent/enjoyable tag.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I agree with you Cody. I'm not a fan of either of the matches tbh and find them the example of where the WWE Main Event Style can get so caught up in the presentation of spectacle and creating a larger than life atmosphere that the little things that can create a great match in between the story and characters gets lost and the match suffers as a result with the story and character dynamic alone unable to carry the match.


It's too bad when matches get diluted to just create an atmosphere. Sure, it might work to the fans live. Leave saying "wow, what an experience." It's not exactly the kind of match that'll usually hold up. And it doesn't in the case of 27, imo.

Austin vs Rock @ WrestleMania 17 follows the same formula. I'd put it above 27 though. Similar situation at the end of the day.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> but, the chairs were used to the HEAD in the match at 27. The danger in that was much more severe than it was at 28.


Yea but there was what like one chair shot to the head and in their WM28 at least 10 more chair shots to the back.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I HATED the WM 27 match when I saw it live. Wasn't until I re-watched it the next day for my review that I loved it lol. Saw it as a total SPOTZ~! match watching it live, then when I looked more closely I could see the story they were trying to tell and I personally got into it and loved it . Watching WM 28 live I adored the shit out of it, knew it beat out WM 27 for me. Then liked it more when I reviewed it... then a little less (not enough to drop the rating, but enough to not have it MOTY) when I watched it back to back with Bryan/Punk to see what my MOTY was.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> I'll take the one Undertaker vs Orton WM match over all 3 Undertaker vs Triple H matches.
> 
> Without even thinking twice.


Agreed. Same thing with Taker/Kane WM14, the Taker/HBK matches (of course), Taker/Edge, and Taker/Batista. 

On Taker/HHH WM Matches:

WM28>WM17>>>>>>>WM27

Anyway, ratings on KOK's last few matches:

30. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7)- ****
29. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV)- ***3/4
28. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI)- ****1/4
27. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)- ****1/4
26. Triple H vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 2000)- ***1/2

Only match that really sticks out like a sore thumb is the WM 2000 main event. Great match, but not in the same category of "great" as the matches in the same batch imo.

Speaking of my (irrelevant) opinion, here's my 30-26 WM matches:

(****)
30) Taker vs. Flair WM18
29) Edge vs. Jericho WM26
28) Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle WM20 (I already know A LOT of people disagree with me on this one... fuck em  )
27) Taker vs. HHH WM17
26) Taker vs. HHH WM28

Really enjoyed the Taker/HHH WM17 and 28 matches, for completely different reasons, and they're almost about equal (only a few matches separating them on my all-time list). I give it to Taker/HHH WM28 just because I was on the edge of my seat more on first watch than I was for the WM17 match.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Craig said:


> The cell was pretty much there to let the fans know they shouldn't expect 'Taker's big plancha ('cause if he went for that he'd collapse into dust) and *to add a few buys for the people who go "OMG CELL".*


Didn't give a damn about their WM 27 match till i was watching it and while that match was great and wasn't looking forward to a rematch.
In their segment confirming the rematch i went from "they're really gonna have a rematch ? don't care" to "OHSHIT HIAC? wacthin it".


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I've actually never made a list of star ratings for UT WM matches. I don't remember anything pre-XIV, so heres my list:

WM XIV - **1/2
WM XV - **
WM X7 - ***3/4
WM X8 - ****
WM XIX - ***1/4
WM XX - *1/2
WM 21 - ***1/2
WM 22 - **1/2
WM 23 - ****
WM XXIV - ****
WM XXV - ****3/4
WM XXVI - ***3/4
WM XXVII - ****3/4
WM XXVIII - ****1/2

My fav streak match is WM XXVII - The intensity, the atmosphere, the drama, the spots, and the most historic nearfall in wrestling history. I love this match.

I think HIAC at XXVIII is an amazing sequel, which raises the stakes in such an awesome way. The difference is that this time I knew HHH wasn't winning.

Same goes for WM XXV. The match is absolutely perfect, but knowing that HBK wasn't going to retire Flair one year and end the streak the next kind of took away the suspense from the beginning.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

It's hard for me to give Triple H vs. Undertaker Hell in a Cell the praise that most have given it. Was it a good match? I'd say it was very good... but ****1/2 (the rating that most have given it) is too much for a match that doesn't know what it wants to be. It simply isn't a Hell in a Cell match to me, it's a simple hardcore match with a cage surrounding the ring... just like most Cell matches in this generation. Makes me wish sometimes that they wouldn't even have them if they're going to use it for show instead of contributing to a rivalry. Once again though, I still think it's a fun match for what it is. I particularly LOVE the storytelling done by all three men (Taker, Hunter, Shawn)... their facial expressions and demeanor throughout the match made it somewhat emotional. So I guess it has its merits.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I have Triple H/Taker from last year at ***1/2. Them not using the cell and the whole telling Shawn to stop the match angle didn't work for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I absolutely loved HBK in the HIAC match. Thought he did an amazing job, as did Trips and Taker.

Still can't believe how awesome Shield vs Hell No/Ryback is. Watched it again today. ****1/2 still.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Undertakers recent matches with HHH are some of the most over rated ever. Good matches in their own right but no where near the HBK matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

.... Must....Refrain....From....Talking....About....Trip-Undertaker Series.........

SO ANYWAYS that John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio Falls Count Anywhere match on RAW was actually pretty awesome. Those guys have some pretty underrated chemistry, especially when it comes to gimmick matches. Throughout this DVD there's a mix of matches and segments until the last disc..... Now I got like TWELVE matches in a row to watch, what the fuck .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Undertaker/HBK- WM 25 *****- The best match I have ever seen, no HHH/Taker match compares to this
Undertaker/HBK- WM 26 ****3/4- Not as good as the WM 25 one, but still a great match. One of the best endings 
Undertaker/HHH WM 27 ***3/4- This was a great brawl, but I have never believed that HHH was going to win this one. And it was just too long, Taker and HHH took way to many moments to rest
Undertaker/HHH WM 28 *****- This was the best Taker/HHH match, and it was the first time i really thought that the streak was going to end. Shawn didn't add to many thing to this and the cell was there for no reason, because they never really used it, but anyway this was a great match and I loved it.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Trips/Taker from last year was awful. *


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Now there's a bold statement (do I agree? we'll see... I oughta get to the next batch of Wrestlemania matches on my list just to piss Cody off) that I like to see out of people sometimes. 

Oh fucking christ I have to sit through another Dolph vs Kofi match ? UGH, can somebody tell me if they remember anything about any of these matches ?

- Sheamus vs Sandow (October 1)
- Bryan/Kane vs Del Rio/Otunga (October 5th)
- Punk vs Ziggler (October 5th)
- Bryan vs Ziggler (October 29th)
- Cena/Ryback vs Punk/Ziggler (November 5th)
- Orton vs ADR (FCA ; November 6th)

GOD DAMN there's a ton of Dolph on this set, they must really see a fucking ton of potential for sure. I don't know if anybody else feels the same about some of Dolph's mic work in the sense that alot of it seems, well... Forced. It's like he tries way too hard to be that "show stealing douchebag" character and alot of the time it's just.... I don't even know. DOLPH is such a confusing case for me honestly because I don't ever think he can be THE top heel due to his strength being taking a beating and bumping around and shit, while I don't think he can be a top face due to him just looking like somebody I could never ever get behind as a face.

He's unbelievably talented, but I just don't know about him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I fucking LOVED Trips/Taker from 27 on the first two watches, but when I paid the most attention on the 3rd, it definitely has its downfalls. Sooooo much downtime inbetween the finisher fest it turns into during the middle of the match, but I still absolutely love the first 10 minutes or so and the last few, especially that fucking EPIC tombstone nearfall. I've settled at *** 3/4, but the rating doesn't do the spectacle aspect of it justice.

I expect ratings for that RAW/SD set, *KOK!*

Watched The Shield vs. Jericho, Ryback, & Sheamus from last week's RAW since everyone apparently loved the shit out of it. Certainly an enjoyable match but not quite on the level of their Chamber affair. Isolation on Sheamus wasn't as good as the Cena version (even though we missed most of it) and the finish, while still chaotic, wasn't as glorious as the spear spots from EC. Still a great tv match though & I love Sheamus's interaction with Ambrose & Reigns. **** 1/2*

Heard good stuff about Jericho/Bryan & Punk/Jericho. Do I need to see both? I'm talkin MOTYC level or not.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just got Best Of Nitro Volume 2 in the mail so I am starting that now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch both just so you can compare the two and join the argument as to which is better. I'm team Jericho-Punk at the moment but neither is my current WWE TV MOTY, as that token is currently taken by the Ryback-Punk TLC match that happened on the first show of the year. We have gotten quite a few great TV matches so far this year though so I can't complain. PUNK DA GAWD and the selling of that knee though, we're going to need a Punk-Henry type match to beat that one for sure.

OH the ratings are coming don't worry, and I might as well just let you know right now ; this set isn't NEARLY as strong as the 2011 set, far too many random "Damien Sandow vs Sheamus/Orton" matches that are just THERE and not anything significant. I fail to understand why Punk-Henry from 4/2/12 isn't on here, or Bryan-Cena or Bryan-Rey or any of those matches, while we get a smattering of random Randy Orton matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another match i love and watched recently, thought id upload it too for anyone who wants it:

This is of course the excellent ladder match, from the Tagged Classic version, thus being unedited, no blurring etc:

*Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Royal Rumble 2001) - Ladder Match*

https://hotfile.com/dl/195717887/070cd91/Benoit_vs_Jericho_-_RR2001.avi.html


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2001 doesn't have a five star match from me, but I wouldn't hesitate for a second to say that it's perhaps the greatest in-ring year in WWE history.

- GOAT RAW Match
- GOAT SD Match
- GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Match
- GOAT Summerslam Match
- Steve Austin GOD MODE
- GOAT Ladder Match

The only problem was that GAME wasn't there for a majority of the year .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2001 is such an awesome year. The WM17 main event is definitely a five star match for me. Second comes Austin/Benoit only a quarter away from full five. Just think how much better it would've been with Benoit and GAME active the entire year and not taken out by those damn injuries!

To continue rating KOK's WM matches:

Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania 17) - ★★★★
Stone Cold vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIV) - ★★★½
Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania 21) - ★★★★¼
Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania V) - N/A
Triple H vs The ROCK vs Mick Foley vs Big Show (Wrestlemania 2000) - ★★★½


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> 2001 doesn't have a five star match from me, but I wouldn't hesitate for a second to say that it's perhaps the greatest in-ring year in WWE history.
> 
> - GOAT RAW Match
> - GOAT SD Match
> ...




GOAT raw match: Cena/HBK night after mania

GOAT smackdown match: Benoit/Austin

GOAT tag match: TLC WM 17

GOAT summerslam match: HBK/HHH SS 02

GOAT Ladder match: Benoit/Jericho RR 2001


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Watching the Attitude Era DVD feeling all nostalgic. Also I think (hope) it's obvious that there is going to be a second Volume.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> 2001 doesn't have a five star match from me, but I wouldn't hesitate for a second to say that it's perhaps the greatest in-ring year in WWE history.
> 
> - GOAT RAW Match
> - GOAT SD Match
> ...


If you're referring to HHH/Austin vs Jericho/Benoit as the Best Raw match, eh. I can see that and probably wouldn't disagree.

Austin/Benoit isn't better than Eddie/Mysterio 6/23/05 as far as Smackdown goes. I'd probably rank Benoit/Finlay 5/5/06 and Mysterio/Orton 4/7/06 ahead of it as well when it comes to personal preference. Would not be surprised if Finlay/Hardy 6/22/07 also goes ahead of it eventually given I seem to fall in love with it more and more with every viewing.

Rockers vs Orient Express Royal Rumble 1991, Rockers vs Brainbusters 3/18/89 and Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle 5/22/03 are better company tags than Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho 5/21/01 imo as well.

Austin/Angle I could see as the best Summerslam match. Not a lot else really jumps out to me as being in contention. Austin is sensational and Angle puts in arguably his best ever performance. Finish is also wonderful.

Austin in '01 was certainly his peak as a worker. He was very good in years prior but everything just came together in that one year.

Benoit/Jericho is a top 3 ladder match in company history for me alongside Sheamus/Morrison TLC '10 and then one of the Razor/HBK matches which I haven't seen in years. I wouldn't begrudge anyone ranking it the best ladder match and in all honesty at present I'd probably be inclined to agree.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

- GOAT RAW Match - Bret/Owen 3/3/97
- GOAT SD Match - Undertaker/Angle 03
- GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Match - You know, I'm not too sure. Certainly not the Power Trip/ChrisX2 match though. I SHALL THINK.
- GOAT Summerslam Match - Angle/Lesnar 03
- GOAT Ladder Match - Benoit/Jericho 01 (so that's one right ).


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

2001 also has one of the most entertaining matches of all time: Angle/Benoit CAGE MATCH. I only have it at *3/4, but it might be the most fun I've ever had in watching WWE.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

2001 was Austin's best year match wise also.

DEERZ A CONNECTION


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Just watched Rock v Goldberg from Backlash 03.
This is a really underrated match IMO, very fun and entertaining main event to end a decent show. The Rock was brilliant in his 03 run. His promo after the match was awesome. ***1/2 IMO.

Other ratings from Backlash 03 (from what I can remember).
Lesnar/Cena - ***1/2
Triple H/Flair/Jericho v Booker T/Nash/HBK - ***1/4
Big Show/Mysterio - ** (The bump Mysterio took on the stretcher after this match looked painful!)
Los Guerreros/Team Angle - ***

Can't remember much from the other matches of the event but I'm pretty sure I remember them being decent!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Raw 7/16/01 might be my favorite ending to a Raw, ever. JR hypes the fuck out of it too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Feel sorry for peeps who never experienced the 28 HIAC live tbh. 

Actually, I feel sorry for the peeps who never experienced any of the streak matches from 25 through 28 live and never got to witness the evolution of the storyline in person 4 years in a row. 

:troll


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I feel like watching HIAC from WM28 just to hear "GUILLOTINE LEG DROP!".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I feel sorry for anyone who didn't see Undertaker wrestler Jericho for the first time EVER live. But mostly I feel sorry for myself for not seeing any Streak matches live. Or a WM live. Or a PPV live. I hate you.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:sad:

I'm just glad I'm FINALLY going to get to see Jericho live in a couple weeks (hopefully). Can cross him off the list and now I just need to see Taker live now but I'm sensing that's not going to happen.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> I feel sorry for anyone who didn't see Undertaker wrestler Jericho for the first time EVER live. But mostly I feel sorry for myself for not seeing any Streak matches live. Or a WM live. Or a PPV live. I hate you.


So fucking jealous you got to see a match I don't remember at all live...

On the other hand, you didn't have to sit through Cole/King, Miz/Cena and the like live. 

We're even.

Then again, vs HBK 25, vs. HBK 26, vs. HHH 27 and vs. HHH 28 Taker streak matches... 

:HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Took me until that Jericho match to see Undertaker live. Was awesome. First time seeing Undertaker live. First ever match Vs Jericho. AND he was the WHC. Oh, and a casket match with Punk as the dark main event afterwards. And Christian Vs Regal earlier in the night for ECW that was AWESOME. :mark:. I had to sit through Raw (this is in 2009 btw) the day before though :|.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This may not apply to Starbuck because of all those WMs but what is everyone's favorite match that they've been to live?

The Raw I went to in '07 was absolute shit but in the Summer of '11 I got to see Christian/Bryan and it was absolutely epic. Also, Nitro/Benjamin/Carlito from a houseshow in '06 absolutely owned. Better than the PPV one, imo. Really good Henry/M Hardy match from an '08 show I went to as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal/Christian November 09 ECW match was the best match I've seen live... but most fun? Yeah, probably was too. Undertaker/Jericho was amazing to see live though the match wasn't "great" or anything.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think anything from Raw 09 can compete with COLE VS LAWLER AT WRESTLE-FUCKING-MANIA THAT I PAID IN THE THOUSANDS TO ATTEND. I did go restock and refill on snacks/drinks after Austin's entrance. Thought the match would be over by the time I got back to my seat. I thought wrong. 

Removing Wrestlemania from the equation and all televised tapings of Raw (never been to a SD taping before), one of the best house show matches I can remember was HHH/Cena in 2006. Atmosphere was nuts and match was great. If I had to go choosing from Mania's though, obviously the decision would be much more difficult.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've seen Ric Flair's arse at least 3 times live. And a couple of Chavo matches. I envy your Miz/Cena and Cole/Lawler viewing.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I really wish they would bring MITB back to Mania. I loved seeing those live in person. The ladders sound so much more painful when you hear the cracking and snapping up close and personal. Speaking of MITB, I saw SWAGGAH win his MITB at 26 from ringside. They edited it out of the DVD release but he couldn't get the case unhooked from the cable for well over a minute. DAT SWAGGAH BOTCH. Maybe he was just too HIGH up on that ladder... :side:

And I'm pretty sure you would have found both Miz/Cena and Cole/Lawler much less irritating than I SAY YABBA, YOU SAY DABBA, YABBA DABBA, YABBA DABBA live in person, Cal. 

:rock4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

You guys may have seen Miz/Cena, Cole/Lawler and Flair's ass and Chavo, but you never had to sit through this Raw. :side:

http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/August_27,_2007_Monday_Night_RAW_results


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember the Swagger MITB botch. And the part where he couldn't unhook the briefcase too 8*D.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cole/Lawler live trumps everything. One of my better Mania memories is pretty random but I was legit cracking up at this. Mil Mascaras' HOF induction speech. What a complete and utter mindfuck that was. I remember the entire arena drifting from respectful applause to awkward glances to what the fuck is this guy talking about to :lmao at how horrible it was. I think they edited a lot of the unnecessary shit out of that too. On the same token, the DX induction of Tyson was :lmao for all the right reasons. Great speech followed by Tyson himself. That was great. 

What was so bad about that Raw, Byre?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mason Ryan Vs Jack Swagger is THE worst match I have ever seen. Not just live, but ever. EVER.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Cole/Lawler live trumps everything. One of my better Mania memories is pretty random but I was legit cracking up at this. Mil Mascaras' HOF induction speech. What a complete and utter mindfuck that was. I remember the entire arena drifting from respectful applause to awkward glances to what the fuck is this guy talking about to :lmao at how horrible it was. I think they edited a lot of the unnecessary shit out of that too. On the same token, the DX induction of Tyson was :lmao for all the right reasons. Great speech followed by Tyson himself. That was great.
> 
> What was so bad about that Raw, Byre?


It was just loads and loads of filler. Orton started off the night with a solid promo and then everything went downhill. The Hardy/Kennedy match was dreadful until Umaga came out, the six man tag and diva 'match' were rather lame and the main event was horrible up until Orton punted Cena's dad. Middle of the show had Carlito's Cabana with Triple H and Vince. All I remember from it was about a 4 minute buildup for a cock joke that made the woman in front of me block her kid's ears the rest of the segment. :lmao Was just kinda disappointing. Was King Booker's last match in WWE. HISTORIC. :side:

I remember some of the stuff during the commercial breaks being decent though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Slightly sad I'm missing Mania this year but overall not all that bothered which has surprised me tbh. It's definitely going to be weird as hell watching the event from my living room for the first time in 5 years though. I'm definitely going to XXX and after that I think I might call it quits. As horrible as some people in here might find it, I'm not paying 1/2k plus to fly across the world to see Dolph Ziggler main event Wrestlemania. I think Taker will most definitely be gone come 31 which will suck. I don't see Rock sticking around after 30. Brock will most likely be gone by then too and I think the same goes for HHH. I'm a Cena mark but I'm not paying all that money just to see him. It would be different if Mania was in my city and it wasn't such a huge trip but for all that money, a Mania without star power isn't worth it since that's essentially what you're paying for and the midcard doesn't gey any investment at all. That probably isn't a popular opinion in these parts but it's the truth for the vast majority of people who attend the event, including myself. They haven't built up anybody to replace these guys and they're definitely going to feel the bite come Wrestlemania 31/32 imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think it's impressive enough that you've gone to five of them. Completely understandable to not fork up that money if there isn't a huge chance that you'll enjoy the show. I'm sure you've had tons of awesome memories come out of the ones you've been to, anyway. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wrestlemania XXX is probably the last Mania worthy of attending. Maybe I should think about doing something for next year around this time. If I miss that, I might as well miss every other event WWE puts on since ROCK, Taker and Brock will probably never be on the same card again and from the full-time roster, Orton is the only guy I would even consider worthy of seeing in person, specially for someone living on the other side of the world.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I've been to four. 25 - 28. Had I gone this year it would have been five .

It's the fact that it's such a big trip and it's expensive. I want my money's worth at the end of the day you know? Until WWE gets some of their current guys up to the level that I'll be willing to pay that amount of money to fly across the world to see them, I'm just not going to do it any more.

I've been very fortunate. The list of stars I've seen perform live in person is incredible. I got to meet my all time favourite wrestler ever last year in the GAME. After XXX I think I could cap off attending Mania unless by some miracle WWE gets amazing again from top to bottom.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would've demanded my money back at XXV for that Kid Rock concert. :side:

Being able to see the Taker vs KLIQ tour in it's entirety live is fucking awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If anybody is interested, I have just reached the halfway point for my first ever project, which is the Kidman/Juventud Guerrera WCW series. Bear with me, as I have never done an in-depth review before, and I would love any and all feedback/criticism for this work. Well without further ado, here is my first attempt at a real project.

*[August 26, 1996]* 


Spoiler: Match #1



*[**1/2]*

Juvi's WCW debut match and their first ever encounter. This match was certainly more about Juvi than it was about Kidman as Kidman was a vanilla jobber at the time. Kidman starts the match off by doing a pretty cool powerslam. Quickly the match goes to the outside. Juvi tries to perform a sunset flip powerbomb on the apron, but the execution was a bit sloppy. Nice leg drop to the outside and springboard 360 spin from Guerrera to redeem himself. Kidman reverses another springboard move into a powerbomb, and follows up with a springboard legdrop. Kidman really is getting the opportunity to perform a lot more offense than expected. SSP! Kidman hits the SSP for only a two count! He gets greedy and tries to perform the SSP again, but Juventud gets back up in time and does a nice looking top rope Frankensteiner for the victory. Fun sub-5 minute match with a surprisingly hot crowd. After the match, Mean Gene attempts to interview Juvi, and I stress the word "attempt". At the time, Juvi did not know much English, so his entire promo (which related to a future match with the cursed Konnan over the "Mexican Title") was in Spanish, which garnered boos. Juvi ends the disaster by shouting one of the funniest things ever said in a promo. Please, whatever you do, watch the post-match promo! 

*Things to look out for: Juvi's post-match promo.* :lmao



*[February 5, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #2



*[***]*

These two actually had a match before this one in November of 1997, but I could not find it anywhere. I did however find a rare Regal/Chris Adams bout that occurred on that same show. At this point, Kidman is not a jobber anymore, and is now a member of the Flock. Beginning of the match starts off with Kidman taunting Juvi, and Juvi reacts by slapping Kidman across the face. Some nice fast-paced offense by Juvi afterwards. However, just as Juvi was going to do a headscissors takedown, Kidman does an awesome facebuster counter! GOD DAMN, LODI IS OVER! This crowd won't stop shitting on him. Guerrera does a cool hurricanrana from the top rope to the outside onto Kidman. Guerrera does another one inside the ring with Kidman that led to a smooth pinfall attempt. Juvi performs the Juvi Driver and gets ready to do the 450, but Lodi bothers him, which gives Kidman enough time to do a bulldog and a SSP for the finish. Love this story of the 450 vs. SSP being emphasized in this series so far. 

*Things to look out for: Juvi's two hurricanranas, Kidman's facebuster counter*



*[February 19, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #3



*[**1/4]*

At this point, Juventud is now the #1 contender for Jericho's Cruiserweight Championship at Superbrawl VIII. On the other hand, Schiavone plays up the story of how Kidman cares less about being a Cruiserweight champ, and more about being a member of the Flock. Some more fast paced action to begin with. ANOTHER awesome counter by Kidman, this time on Juvi's wheelbarrow attempt. Lodi interrupts Juventud's tope attempt, but eventually Lodi's idiocy causes both him and Kidman to get hurt. MichiJUVI Driver! These fans love Juventud! 450 for the victory. OH MY GOODNESS! Jericho is here! Jericho pulls off Juventud's mask (while still wearing his belt), but Juvi has another mask underneath the one Jericho pulled off. Short match that was done only to make Juvi look strong, but fun overall segment nonetheless. 

*Things to look out for: Kidman's wheelbarrow counter, JERICHO!*



*[April 28, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #4



*[**1/2]*

Their next match wouldn't come until two months later, and this is Juvi's first bout with Kidman after he got unmasked. Match starts off with Kidman heeling it up, which leads to a shoving war and some more offense from Juvi. Guerrera seems to have a certain "oomph" to his moves now, which makes sense with his new "Unmasked Warrior" character. Just as Juventud goes for a corner 10-punch spot, Kidman counters with a sick top rope BK Bomb! Kidman is 3/3 in these matches with regards to nice counters. Love Kidman's mix of high flying and brawling on display here, which also fits in with his Flock gimmick. Kidman gets caught on the rope, which leads to a nice Juvi hurricanrana. Match is similar to their previous encounter. Only difference is that Kidman gets to implement more offense than he did before. So far, all of their matches have been around five minutes each, but each match has something fun in there. 

*Things to look out for: Kidman's BK Bomb *


*[May 11, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #5



*[**3/4]* 

Another short but sweet match between these two on Nitro. Match starts off with some nice maneuvers and counters. The action quickly moves to the outside after Juvi performs a sick springboard dive. When the match goes back in the ring, Kidman performs a really cool powerbomb-to-facebuster move that got a ton of cheers from the crowd. Counter after counter after counter. JUVI DRIVER for only a two count. While the ref is grabbing Kidman's shirt for no apparent reason, THE YETI comes in and does a two-handed chokebomb on Juvi, which leads to a SSP and a victory for Kidman. You could tell that the crowd REALLY wanted to cheer for Kidman, but his association with the Flock prevented them from doing so. 

*Things to look out for: Powerbomb-to-facebuster, Reese carrying Juvi like a baby in his arms to the back while Kidman piggybacks onto Reese*


*[May 25, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #6



*[****] *

Finally we get our first extended bout between these two, and this does not disappoint. Kidman begins the match by slapping Juvi across the face, which causes Juvi to do the same to Kidman. Kidman getting more heat than usual tonight. There is a storyline going on right now involving Juventud constantly fighting members of the Flock. BK BOMB! Oh I love that move. Juvi gets fired up and even rips off Kidman's shirt to sell the fire in this feud. AIR JUVI! Oh my goodness the height on that dive was astounding. Kidman does the unthinkable and actually performs an X-Factor that did not look stupid. Love the way Juvi sells Kidman's stomps. These guys are making use of every second available. One thing I noticed is that prior to this match, these guys never had a rest hold on each other until Kidman does one here. This leads to Juvi getting the crowd on to his side and escaping from the hold, only to get viciously clotheslined by Kidman. LOL at Kidman's constant itching. This crowd is loving this match. POWERSLAM by Kidman! So many awesome moves in this bout, and the crowd is buying into every nearfall. Powerbomb-to-facebuster only gets a two for Kidman. Awesome release german suplex on Juvi. Juvi Driver and 450 gets a great pop from the fans as well as the pinfall. Love the way that Juvi sells the wear and tear of the match after his victory. If there is one match so far that you need to watch between these two, it is this one. 

*Things to look out for: All the moves mentioned in this review, Juvi's selling, HOT crowd*


*[June 11, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #7



*[***1/2]* 

Only a couple weeks later do we get our next battle between these two thoroughbreds. Unfortunately, as the match begins, who else but the New World Order decide to interrupt the proceedings. Juvi goes for a plancha, but LODI pushes Kidman out of the way. He may be as talentless as they get, but Lodi's mannerisms are hilarious. Powerbomb to the barricade by Kidman. BAW GAWD KANG! KIDMAN HITS THE APRON SSP! Yes, it was sloppy as all hell and it might have hurt both of their knees, but that move really caught me by surprise. Heenan's commentary is on point tonight. For whatever reason, Kidman puts Juvi in a minute-long resthold which garners serious boos from the crowd. Really ruined the flow of the match. Juvi really can't seem to do a wheelbarrow move on Kidman without Kidman throwing him halfway across the ring. Love Kidman's "snap" that comes with his powerslam and BK Bomb. Desperation Juvi Driver leads to another 450 for a Juvi victory. The match contained tons of great action and fun moves, but there were two small flaws in this match that makes it weaker than their previous bout: 

1. That awfully long resthold 
2. The no-selling of the knees. Both guys probably could have done something regarding selling a knee injury, but it ultimately never manifested. 

*Things to look out for: Kidman's SSP, Heenan's commentary *


*[June 13, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #8



*[***]* 

This is their last match before their first ever PPV match together at Bash at the Beach. In addition, I could not find this match on Profightdb's database, but some kind fellow uploaded this on Youtube. I love the WCW Saturday Night arena. Juvi releases a fury of forearms onto Kidman. Juvi is really on his game with all these strikes and moves tonight. Kidman with a vicious choke and hairpull on Juvi. He really is an underappreciated heel. Ropewalk-to-guillotine leg drop from Kidman. This is probably the first time I heard the crowd chant "Kidman Sucks", which leads to Kidman covering his ears with his hands. Wow, that sunset flip counter by Juventud was a great nearfall. Juvi returns the favor on Kidman by pulling his hair back. I don't know if the camera angle was off, but tonight's BK Bomb looked botched. Kidman avoids the 450 for once! Unfortunately he could not avoid the Juvi Driver, once again giving the victory to Guerrera. 

*Things to look out for: Kidman's heelish mannerisms*


*[Bash at the Beach 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #9



*[***3/4]* 

It took nearly two years, but these two finally get their first PPV match together, albeit unannounced. Huge pop for Juvi from the largely Latino crowd. GRAPPLE WAR leads to forearm shots. Apparently this is Kidman's PPV debut as well according to Tenay. Oh god, not the "We Want Flair" chants. Do it to the Rodman match, but not this! Juvi kicks Lodi's hat away for a mixed reaction from the crowd. The brutal powerbomb guillotine barricade spot makes its return. These bumps to the outside look absolutely painful, and I highly doubt that these WCW mats have much give. *HOLY SHIT!* Pardon the French, but spectacular top rope BK Bomb that only gets a two count because Kidman has to itch his ass. Kidman attempts to do his own Juvi Driver, but Juventud reverses it into a rollup. Beautiful dropkick by Kidman that puts the likes of Hardcore Holly to shame. Awesome springboard hurricanrana to bring Kidman back into the ring. ***** suplex! Both of these guys are on their game. So many great convincing nearfalls in this match. Kidman attempts a SSP on Kidman, but his miss gives Juvi a chance to do his 450 for the win. I haven't watched this PPV in years, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the match of the night. 

*Things to look out for: BK Bomb, All the moves performed on the outside*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Eh, Hansen worked for WWWF and Colon was there for a cup of coffee. Plus there's nowhere else I can put this really and this thread is a good way for a varied discussion to develop and for people to come across matches they otherwise might never find.

*Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon, Bullrope Match, WWC (1/6/87)*






Great match with a rabid crowd and two great performances. Both men bleed and beat the snot out of one another and there's a great pacing throughout and timing of the dramatic nearfalls with Hansen in particular having numerous opportunities at touching the 4th post only to be denied by a spirited Colon. Loved how they went after the other right from the get go and were eye gouging each other in the opening minute to counter the other and gain control. No messing about or trying to wrestle, if there's an eye to be gouged they'll do it if they think it'll get an advantage. Hansen again bleeds early and sells wonderfully throughout. He takes some great bumps and really manages to sell expressively to pull the crowd into the match without making it overly theatrical that it looks hammy. Colon again plays the aggressive and resilient hero to a tee and is suitably vicious throughout. 

Really loved how both men would repeatedly find counters to contain the other from touching all 4 corners. Colon rolling to the outside to interrupt the count, leading to Hansen trying to pull him in over his back was a smart spot and the later spot where Hansen is inches away from winning only for Colon to wrap his legs around the chain and valiantly yank Hansen to the mat was a great visual. Hansen groaning and almost crying in disbelief at coming so close really sold the spot and his subsequent wandering over to Colon really had you believing he was going to beat the crap out of him. The finishing stretch again has Hansen breaking up Colon's onslaught with repeated cowbell shots just as he's advancing to the 4th turnbuckle. Each one was timed so effortlessly that it captured the Sting/Vader dynamic of pulling you into the battle and making each nearfall feel more enticing and believable than the last. Finish is excellent with Hansen having interrupted Colon after he gets the 3rd turnbuckle, only to try and touch the 4th for himself with Colon holding on and a great visual of Hansen's pained face trying to no avail to make it to the corner. He turns round and we get a great standoff with both men jockeying for control of the bullrope before Hansen rushes in and Colon immediately backdrops him and jumps into the corner to touch the 4th turnbuckle and win.


*Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon, Cage Match, WWC (3/14/87)*






This is yet another demonstration of Hansen's capabilities. Match is win by escape but they do an excellent job of working a physical and violent bloodbath and Hansen in particular sells superbly to create this 'deer staring into headlights' esque environment where he's just looking to escape wherever possible. They do a shockingly good job at making Hansen rotating between the door and climbing the cage logical with him only climbing sparingly and doing so when he winds up collapsed against the ropes. Hansen in particular is so great at bumping wildly and being such an expressive performer for everything Colon throws his way. There's one spot where Hansen is on the outside and Colon just rifles a short range headbutt square in the nose and Hansen sells it immaculately by collapsing like he was just floored in a bar. His staggering and near comatose state really puts over the war and he does it in such a way that it draws you into his peril and how he'll escape and fend off the bloodthirsty Colon. Loved the Backlund/Valentine esque build around Colon trying and failing to lock on the figure four which dominates the middle section of the match. Hansen is tremendous fighting and screaming in vain to frantically fend off Colon and there's one spot where he just punches him square in the back of the noggin to stop the onslaught.

Hansen dishes out some trademark stiff shots with a couple of perfectly placed kneedrops right in the face and one stiff as heck short arm lariat that looks like it should have concussed Colon. Hansen basically collapsing onto Colon upon impact was a nice little bit of continuous selling. Ending is chaotic and wonderful as Hansen uses his boot to try and put Colon away only to be caught once again and is finally unable to prevent the figure four being locked on. Hansen is shrieking and crying for help whilst the crowd goes bonkers and then faces and heels get into a wild free for all outside the Cage and the crowd becomes unglued. Colon eventually releases the hold and triumphantly walks out of the Cage and into another brawl and sets about beating the piss out of more people. Hansen hobbling to the showers whilst world war three is breaking out around him was a super nice touch and by the end another babyface is motionless on the floor bleeding badly. Excellent match with a great showcase Hansen performance and Colon really delivering as the tenacious, resilient and heroic babyface out for blood.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Slightly sad I'm missing Mania this year but overall not all that bothered which has surprised me tbh. It's definitely going to be weird as hell watching the event from my living room for the first time in 5 years though. I'm definitely going to XXX and after that I think I might call it quits. As horrible as some people in here might find it, I'm not paying 1/2k plus to fly across the world to see Dolph Ziggler main event Wrestlemania. I think Taker will most definitely be gone come 31 which will suck. I don't see Rock sticking around after 30. Brock will most likely be gone by then too and I think the same goes for HHH. I'm a Cena mark but I'm not paying all that money just to see him. It would be different if Mania was in my city and it wasn't such a huge trip but for all that money, a Mania without star power isn't worth it since that's essentially what you're paying for and the midcard doesn't gey any investment at all. That probably isn't a popular opinion in these parts but it's the truth for the vast majority of people who attend the event, including myself. They haven't built up anybody to replace these guys and they're definitely going to feel the bite come Wrestlemania 31/32 imo.


Completely Agree, I hope to make WrestleMania 30, were in the last days so to speak of guys like Taker, Rock, Brock all being the center pieces to make WrestleMania feel special, personally looking back I didn't think WrestleMania's 22 to 26 were appealing and the same goes for 27 but Rock added made it must see on television anyway.

I think even though this is REMATCHAMANIA, I think the card is still pretty appealing to see live, I mean ROCK/CENA and BROCK/TRIPS are still fucking unique matches

Your right regarding WWE post Rock, Brock and Cena which will probably fall around WrestleMania 33+ IMO since im a little more optimistic about how long Rock will be around.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just rewatched the Punk doc and I'm solidifying it as the #2 doc WWE has put out behind the ECW one. So much more depth than any of the other ones they put out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Now there's a bold statement (do I agree? we'll see... I oughta get to the next batch of Wrestlemania matches on my list just to piss Cody off) that I like to see out of people sometimes.
> 
> Oh fucking christ I have to sit through another Dolph vs Kofi match ? UGH, can somebody tell me if they remember anything about any of these matches ?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I need to see that pumped out already. If I skipped over your list, let me know man.

I wouldn't go out and call Dolph's mic work forced. Compared to where he was back in 2009, he's managed to grow into his ability on the mic if you ask me. I buy into it. Not wearing the Dolph goggles either. He gives off the "show off" vibe well. It isn't complicated. He finds the outlets to deliver it well. He'll probably never be a top heel. If he reaches the level of a Edge/Orton then that's not a half bad position either. Top star, only not really THE man. _(except Edge got rewarded for his life contributing effort having to retire and all. You get what I'm presenting nonetheless.)_



Big Z said:


> - GOAT RAW Match - Bret/Owen 3/3/97
> - GOAT SD Match - Undertaker/Angle 03
> - GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Match - You know, I'm not too sure. Certainly not the Power Trip/ChrisX2 match though. I SHALL THINK.
> - GOAT Summerslam Match - Angle/Lesnar 03
> - GOAT Ladder Match - Benoit/Jericho 01 (so that's one right ).


Sounds like fun.

- GOAT RAW Match - Damn. Thought this was going to be easy. Drawing a massive blank. I'll come back to it.
- GOAT Smackdown Match - Undertaker vs Angle '03 or Guerrero vs Mysterio '05
- GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Team Match - Probably Rockers vs Brainbusters I. Or anything involving Rockers, at least.
- GOAT Summerslam Match - Austin vs Angle '01
- GOAT Ladder Match - Jericho vs Benoit '01


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best match I've ever seen live wasn't from the WWE, it was in TNA. Motor City Machine Guns vs. Generation Me (Young Bucks). WWE wise the most fun I had was (no joke) MNM vs. The New LOD when it was Animal & Heidenreich. A bunch of shenanigans & a doomsday device.

*funnyfaces1*, wait til you get to their match at World War 3 that year. Great stuff. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wished I could say I have a favorite WWF/WWE moment. I was too young to REALLY remember many details. Oh wait, but I remember most from Bash at the Beach '95. So collectively that entire event and getting lost b/c I wanted to be as close to the ring as possible. I WAS IN HEAVEN.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I just wanted to give a word of advice to everyone, Don't buy the 15-0 Undertaker DVD. Biggest piece of crap i ever bought, No extras, No promos and half the matches are only the last 10 - 15 minutes or so.

However, Tombstone the history of the Undertaker gets my full recommendation. Has 21 full matches with promos, interviews plus most of them are pretty good. Best of all, It's probably really cheap now. I think i got my one in 2006 and it was only $20.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was a Wal-Mart exclusive disc meant to gloss over things. I don't think anyone has any urge to purchase it. Especially with the 4 disc Streak set out there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

- GOAT RAW Match - HBK/Benjamin 05 Gold Rush
- GOAT SD Match - Lesnar/Angle 03
- GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Match - The Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No EC 2012
- GOAT Summerslam Match - Austin/Angle 01
- GOAT Ladder Match - Benoit/Jericho RR 01


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It was a Wal-Mart exclusive disc meant to gloss over things. I don't think anyone has any urge to purchase it. Especially with the 4 disc Streak set out there.


I bought it in 2007 to collect most of the matches i haven't watched, You know Flair/Taker, Sid/Taker, Batista/Taker, Bossman/Taker (I wanted to see the hanging which they didn't even show).


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'll rate this at ****. Only criticism I have is that Rock didn't perform any finishers but a nice story was told in the match nonetheless. Rock winning by a roll up after getting dominated by Jericho through out the match. Rock's selling, just before he wins, is just great to see.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

- GOAT RAW Match - TLC 2002 (So Underrated)





- GOAT SD Match - Taker/Angle 2003
Part 1: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...-smackdown-9-4-2003-part-1_sport#.USmR7OtsNCl
Part 2: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...-smackdown-9-4-2003-part-2_sport#.USmR2OtsNCk

- GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Match - Mysterio/Edge vs Angle/Benoit, No Mercy 2002













- GOAT Summerslam Match - Rock/Triple H, 1998 
Part 1: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4fmgh_triple-h-vs-the-rock-ic-title-ladde_sport
Part 2: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4fng0_triple-h-vs-the-rock-ic-title-ladde_sport#.USmT7OtsNCk

- GOAT Ladder Match - First MITB at WM21


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TLC IV is bossy. So much carnage. Dare I say captured the danger of the match more than some of the previous.

I'll always hold a place for it in my heart.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Stone Cold vs Undertaker from Fully Loaded 1999 (First Blood). Vintage Attitude Era stuff as they brawl for pretty much the entirety of the match and there's some interference towards the end. Any thoughts on this?

Prefer both Judgment Day 2001 and Backlash 2002 to it but it was not bad.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Can anyone suggest me some good '08 ECW stuff to watch? For some reason I remember nothing from that year besides Miz/Morrison vs Yang/Moore from like the first show of the year being really fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Fully Loaded 1999 was the prototypical two-match PPV. Rock/HHH was a really fun match with a really hot crowd. I absolutely love the Undertaker/Austin match, even if one can argue that the ending was heavily overbooked. Interesting to note that Taker has been in two "End of an Era" matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lmao I remember being 7 and the feed of Fully Loaded '99 got cut out by a porno about halfway through. :lmao The look of horror on my dad's face. :lmao


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Austin backlash 2002 was horrible, Judgement Day 2001 and Fully Loaded 1999 were awesome though but their best match was at Summerslam 1998.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have yet to see SS 98. Heard a lot of mixed reactions towards it. Some praise it, others bash it. (duh)

And lol @ Taker's random return today. I didn't believe it first but then I saw the pics and it shocked me. Great news anyways.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Fully Loaded 1999 was the prototypical two-match PPV. Rock/HHH was a really fun match with a really hot crowd. I absolutely love the Undertaker/Austin match, even if one can argue that the ending was heavily overbooked. Interesting to note that Taker has been in two "End of an Era" matches.


I think the crowd was a bit dead in the beginning of Austin/Taker but then they came to life when Shane interfered. Also there was a bit too much punch exchanges that made it too one-dimensional. Still an enjoyable match.

Also about time you got yourself an ava and sig to set you apart from the interchangeable jobbers around this forum!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Please, spoiler tags on current Undertaker situations. If I get the only thing I care about in current WWE spoiled for me, I'll rage.



Pierre McDunk said:


> Can anyone suggest me some good '08 ECW stuff to watch? For some reason I remember nothing from that year besides Miz/Morrison vs Yang/Moore from like the first show of the year being really fun.


Bear with me as some may not be as good as I remember. Here we go~!

Morrison/Miz vs Yang/Moore _(15 Minutes of Fame Match)_ - 1/8

CM Punk vs Chavo Guerrero Jr _(ECW Championship)_ - 1/8

CM Punk vs Chavo Guerrero Jr _(Gulf of Mexico Match)_ - 2/5

CM Punk/Ric Flair vs Shelton Benjamin/Elijah Burke - 2/19

CM Punk vs Shelton Benjamin vs Elijah Burke - 2/26

CM Punk vs Chavo Guerrero Jr _(ECW Championship)_ - 3/4

Morrison/Miz vs Tommy Dreamer/Colin Delaney _(Extreme Rules Match)_ - 3/11

Shelton Benjamin vs Carlito Colon - 3/25 _(this was said to be good. Never saw it, but with who's involved don't hold your breath.)_

CM Punk vs Mike Mizanin - 4/8

CM Punk, Kofi Kingston, Jimmy Yang, & Shannon Moore vs Shelton Benjamin, Elijah Burke, Duece, & Domino - 4/15

Undertaker/Kane vs John Morrison/Mike Mizanin - 4/15

Mike Knox vs Tommy Dreamer _(Extreme Rules Match)_ - 5/6

Kane vs John Morrison - 5/13

CM Punk vs Chavo Guerrero Jr - 5/27

CM Punk vs John Morrison vs Chavo Guerrero Jr vs Tommy Dreamer - 6/3

Shelton Benjamin vs Matt Sydal - 6/3

Kane vs CM Punk - 6/3

Mike Knox/Shelton Benjamin vs Evan Bourne/Kofi Kingston - 6/10

John Morrison/Mike Mizanin vs Kane/CM Punk _(WWE Tag Team Championship)_ - 6/10

CM Punk vs John Morrison - 6/17

Entire 6/24 show had 4 fun matches iirc.

Hardys vs John Morrison/Mike Mizanin - 7/15

Matt Hardy vs Dave Finlay vs John Morrison vs Mike Mizanin - 7/22

Mark Henry vs Matt Hardy - 8/19

Matt Hardy vs John Morrison - 8/26

Evan Bourne vs Mike Mizanin - 8/26

Dave Finlay vs Mike Knox - 8/26

Matt Hardy, Dave Finlay, Evan Bourne, & Tommy Dreamer vs Mark Henry, John Morrison, Mike Mizanin, & Chavo Guerrero Jr - 9/2

John Morrison vs Evan Bourne - 9/9

Matt Hardy/Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry/Mike Knox - 9/9

Matt Hardy vs Mike Knox - 9/16

Evan Bourne vs Mike Mizanin - 9/16

Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry - 9/16

Matt Hardy, Evan Bourne, & Ricky Ortiz vs Mark Henry, John Morrison, Mike Mizanin - 9/30 _(this one MIGHT be good, idk. I recall liking the finish. Ortiz being god awful is a wildcard.)_

Dave Finlay/Tommy Dreamer vs Mike Knox/Jack Swagger - 10/7 _(FYI Mark Henry works vs Jamie Noble on this show too. Now it is a complete blur to me. However, knowing who is involved, it could be a uber fun squash match.)_

CM Punk/Kofi Kingston/Evan Bourne/Ricky Ortiz vs Cody Rhodes/Ted Dibiase Jr/John Morrison/Mike Mizanin - 10/7

Watch both matches from 10/14 _(Bourne vs Chavo & Finlay vs Morrison)_

Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry vs Evan Bourne - 10/21

Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry - 11/4

Matt Hardy vs Dave Finlay _(ECW Championship)_ - 11/10 _(I HATE myself for not remembering this. I'm going to watch it after I post.)_

Matt Hardy, Dave Finlay, & Kofi Kingston vs Mark Henry, William Regal, & Cody Rhodes - 11/18

Tommy Dreamer vs Jack Swagger _(Extreme Rules Match)_ - 11/25

Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry - 11/25

Matt Hardy vs Montel Vontavious Porter - 12/2

John Morrison/Mike Mizanin vs Jimmy Yang/Shoichi Funaki - 12/9

Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry - 12/30

(Y)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit Cody, delivering big time. I know what I'm looking up the next few days now. (Y)

That Miz/Morrison vs Taker/Kane match intrigues me. The Finlay stuff all sounds awesome too. Had no idea there was a Morrison/Finlay match out there but it interests the hell out of me. Everything on that list actually sound decent at the very least. (Y)(Y)(Y)(Y)(Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's an underrated year. I mean I'll take 2009 over it, yet if I got "stuck" with only 2008 I wouldn't complain.

It picked up following the draft when Hardy & Finlay came over plus Henry was rocking and rolling as champ. Morrison/Miz were consistent the entire year. Same could be said with Chavo.

Morrison vs Finlay is one of the latter match that has been stuck into my mind. It's good. Four Way from 7/22 & Triple Threat from 10/21 are two of my favorites. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingOfKings Top 50 Wrestlemania Matches Of All Time : 25-21


25. _"In 1996 I won an Olympic Gold Medal, yet everybody seemed to be talking about Shawn Michaels coming down from the rafters that year, and putting on a wrestling clinic"_










Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI) : ******


24. _"Eddie Guerrero should never be considered as the face of the WWE, I'm doing the fans a favor"_










WWE Championship - Eddie Guerrero(c) vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XX) : ***** 1/4*


23. _"BAH GAWD IT'S ARN ANDERSON! DOUBLE A SPINEBUSTER!"_










Ric Flair vs The Undertaker (NO DQ ; Wrestlemania X-8) : ***** 1/4*


22. _"It's all on the line! Can The GAME hold on?!?!"_










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII) : ***** 1/4*


21. _"These two monsters came out and on this night, stole the show"_










World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII) : ***** 1/4*



HERE is where a few very controversial matches seem to come into play. I absolutely adored the slow build up to the frantic finish in Eddie vs Angle, where they start off a little slower and then shit really starts to escalate. I absolutely love the finish too, I have no idea WHY but I do adore it, and it's in my top 25 for a reason. The ANGLE-MANIA continues with another polarizing match, this time against Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania XXI. Some people love it, some people detest it, I'm leaning more towards the LOVE IT side but I realize it has it's flaws mainly pertaining to a few structure issues (HBK AND HIS FUCKING CYBORG ANKLES). All in all I'm calling it a four and saying it deserves to be called the 25th greatest Wrestlemania match of all time no doubt.

The third polarizing match of this batch is Triple H vs John Cena from Wrestlemania XXII. Out of all the matches on this list that you could say I'm biased for this is probably one of the maybe two or three. I fucking LOVE this match no matter how much Cody USED TO hate it, as it's the perfect example of 2004-2006 Hunter in his B-Prime going completely HAM on an unpolished (at the time) John Cena. BEHOLD THE KING, THE KING OF KINGS.... Yeah this is a complete bias pick here, I think my love for it may have jumped it about 12 spots but YEAH... The main event of the 22nd Wrestlemania claims the 22nd spot.

DA UNDERTAKER. Is there anything else that needs to be said about his streak matches at this point ? I legit thought the streak was over after the Batista Bomb @ Mania XXIII and the DOUBLE A SPINEBUSTER was one of the most epic fucking things I've ever seen in my whole fucking life. I fucking ADORE the Flair match more than most do and would probably have it ranked higher, but DAT NATURAL STORYTELLING with the GOAT and perhaps the GOAT in the WWF/WWE on the BIGGEST STAGE gets me every time. The Batista match is one of the best big man sprints you'll ever see and everybody needs to watch it now.

FUCK YOU CODY, JOKEZ . 20-16 shall include : An EPIC match from last year's Wrestlemania that finds it's way into the top 20, two matches that main evented Wrestlemania in the same decade, an icon's first true Wrestlemania classic, and the greatest spotfest in the history of the WWF/WWE. TILL ANOTHER 12 HOURS OR SO, This is KingOfKings with a crazy case of insomnia signing off once again​

Thoughts ? Stars ? Agree/Disagree ? CONVERSATION PEOPLE. 

EDIT : I'LL INCLUDE THE LIST SO FAR TOMORROW. TOO LAZY 4 COPY + PASTE.

:brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT BETTER BE JOKES. :gaga

Well I'll still say I don't "get" the love behind Cena/Trips, but yeah the hate has worn off. It's there, does what it does, and has the most joyous result. I'll still combat it being considered "great" always. b/c for me, it isn't.

Michaels vs Angle...goes without saying. At least you give it a relatively low bit of praise for digging it. It wouldn't make my list. Easiest thing to say here.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Been off for the last 2 days, just went and seen Jericho and Fozzy rocking out at Soundwave festival here in Australia :mark: 

So had to go back and see what i've missed, KOK list is coming on nicely no major disagreements from me. The start of my countdown should be up in a few days. 

Without giving anything, loved the praise for Jericho/Christian maybe the most underrated or overlooked match in Wrestlemania History. Pretty much have the same ratings, of those last batch of matches, id probably go lower on Taker/Flair and Cena/HHH but not by much though. Those of are some your favourites so I have no worries with that, I have a few of my favourites quite higher then the norm of my list as well. 

Im thinking next batch we will have Punk/Jericho at WM28, Triangle Ladder WM 2000, HBK/Razor? Austin/Rock II, Taker/Edge.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI) **** (Same rating tbh, i do really like this match but some things irk me)
WWE Championship - Eddie Guerrero(c) vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XX) ***3/4 (need to watch it again)
Ric Flair vs The Undertaker (NO DQ ; Wrestlemania X-8) ****1/4 (always loved the build to this and the match itself was great imo)
WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII) ****1/4
World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII) ****1/2 (LOVE the Batista/Taker fued with a passion, awesome stuff)


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ***
Ric Flair vs Undertaker - **** 
John Cena vs Triple H - ****
Batista vs Undertaker - ****1/2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HBK/Angle = ****1/2
Eddie/Angle = ***1/2
Flair/Taker = ****1/4
Cena/Triple H = ****
Taker/Batista = ***** (Absolutely loved this match, Greatest big man bout of all time)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HBK/Angle - *****1/4*
Eddie/Angle - ****1/2*
Flair/Taker -******
Cena/HHH - ****3/4*
Batista/Taker - need to rewatch


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Eddie/Angle & Tista/Taker are far too high. *** 3/4 on both and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have Cena/Trips that high either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ***
Ric Flair vs Undertaker - ****1/4 
John Cena vs Triple H - ****
Batista vs Undertaker - ****1/2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Took my time this weekend and watched all of the Punk's reign as the WWE Champ matches:

vs Del Rio- SS 2011 ***1/2- A well worked match with an incredibly satisfying Punk victory that saw him leaping into the MSG crowd in a feel good moment for all involved
vs Del Rio vs Miz- TLC 2011 ****- Fun Match here, to close a good 2011 for the WWE.
vs Ziggler- RR 2012 ***- A very entertaining match, but Laurinatis ruined it with his interventions. For about 5 minutes, we got exactly what we expected, with amazing wrestling from two amazing performances.
Elimination Chamber 2012- ***1/4- Nothing special here, basic EC match.
vs Chris Jericho- WM 28 ****3/4- Brilliant match, Punk's best match after the one with Cena from MITB and Bryan from OTL. Great, great match-up here.
vs Chris Jericho- ER 2012 ****- A very good street fight and the best way to end the feud. It is also notably that the two did a bit too much chain wrestling, which, while well-executed, somewhat took away from the blood feud that they were supposed to be engaged in.
vs Daniel Bryan- OTl 2012 *****- Nothing to say here, only brilliant. I believe, if given just a couple minutes more, the two could have constructed the match of the decade.
vs Bryan vs Kane NWO 2012 ***- Not a fan of this one. It could have been much better without Kane. I'm saying that the red Monster was bad here, he was very good, but a Punk/Bryan match would have been better,
vs Bryan- MITB 2012 ****- Every single element-from technical wrestling to brawling to brutality-was brought together into one incredible package. A forgotten clasic of 2012.
vs Cena vs Big Show- Summerslam 2012 **3/4- Big Show destroyed this one. Awful match compared tot he other ones.
vs Cena NOC 2012- ****1/4- Now this match is so many things. It’s emotional, it’s entertaining, and quite frankly, it’s exhausting. But one thing it is not is disappointing. For 26 minutes, John Cena and CM Punk tore the freaking house down


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - ***1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Ric Flair vs Undertaker - ****
John Cena vs Triple H - ****1/2 (I LOVE this match, i don't know if it's the atmosphere or the clash of styles but i adore this match)
Batista vs Undertaker - ****1/2

Punker's reign

vs Del Rio- SS 2011 ***
vs Del Rio vs Miz- TLC 2011 ***1/2 (I did like the originality of this one)
vs Ziggler- RR 2012 **1/2
Elimination Chamber 2012- **
vs Chris Jericho- WM 28 ***3/4
vs Chris Jericho- ER 2012 ***3/4
vs Daniel Bryan- OTl 2012 ****1/2
vs Bryan vs Kane NWO 2012 ****
vs Bryan- MITB 2012 ***1/4
vs Cena vs Big Show- Summerslam 2012 *3/4
vs Cena NOC 2012- ****
vs Ryback vs Cena- Survivor Series- **
vs Ryback TLC Raw- ***1/2
vs Rock- Royal Rumble 13- *


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Don't get the love for HHH/Cena. It was a good match but not one of the greats. Too predictable and anticlimactic for a main event.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KOK, good list, besides Cena/HHH, which is way too high from where I stand (but then again, I do have it at the lowest rating on this forum I think). Never did get what's so special about the match itself (not taking into account the crowd). Good match, but a not so great main event for Wrestlemania. But anyway, here are my ratings for those matches:


Angle/HBK- ****1/2
Eddie/Angle- ****
Taker/Flair- ****
Cena/HHH- ***
Taker/Batista- ****1/2

And here are my 25-21:

(****)
25) Taker vs. Kane WM14
24) Flair vs. HBK WM24
23) Savage vs. Warrior WM7
22) HBK vs. Cena WM23
(****1/4)
21) Lesnar vs. Angle WM19


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle - ★★★★¼
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ★★★½
Ric Flair vs Undertaker - ★★★¾
John Cena vs Triple H - ★★★★
Batista vs Undertaker - ★★★★½

Again, great work KOK and outside of Eddie/Angle being too high, I don't think I have any disagreements.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jumped back on my ECW 09 Project:

Jack Swagger & Tyson Kidd Vs Tommy Dreamer & Evan Bourne - ECW 24/03/2009

Bourne came back last week. Tyson for the last few weeks has been mentioning Bourne in promos and shit. Dreamer says he wants to win the ECW title before his contract his up or he's retiring. Good pairings for a match imo .

Bourne and Tyson go at it to start, nice basic mat work to try and gain control until they spill to the outside and Natalya provides a distraction and Kidd and beat the fuck out of Bourne... until Bourne tags out. Seemed somewhat pointless that it didn't lead into a FIP section or anything, but whatevers, match is only like 2 minutes in. Still technically the babyface shine period, which becomes evident when Dreamer and Bourne clear house as we go to commercial.

We come back and Dreamer is taking a beating. He's good at doing that. SWAGGER FACTS. Reminds me of the Hardy facts we got during his entrance when he was a heel in 02/03. Swagger and Kidd do a nice job of trash talking Dreamer while they beat him down, makes the basic shit they were doing far more interesting. Hot tag, SSP, Bourne pins Kidd for the win.

Solid tag, not much else though.

Rating: **1/2

Christian & Finlay Vs Mark Henry & Kane - ECW 31/03/2009

Everyone has been praising Henry for finally "coming out of his shell" or some shit with his 2011 run... but fuck, was Henry ever not AWESOME? I saw a couple of his SD 02 matches... he was good. Some from Raw 03. Good. ECW 08 he was pretty sweet. ECW 09 so far he's doing great. SD 06 had a bunch of good stuff. Is it just because he was never that consistent/kept getting injured?

Any combination of guys in this match makes me :mark:. Finlay and Kane hitting each other is sweet. Christian using his speed against Kane and shit is cool. Henry against anyone is :mark:.

Henry laughing when he slams Finlay is awesome. Then he throws him into a corner and pummels him. I need to check out their singles matches from 08. Henry is just a fucking BADASS. If I didn't already know Punk winning MITB for a second year straight would begin his great heel turn and shit I'd be wanting HENRY to win. He dominates here and pins Christian, then takes out Kane just for the hell of it.

Good match, a ton of fun, especially if you love all 4 guys involved. Even if you don't like Kane much, he doesn't do anything that would be considered anywhere near bad.

Rating: ***

Mark Henry Vs Christian Vs Finlay Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 07/04/2009

Oh sweet jesus I think I came. What a match. If only they could have put someone else in there rather than Dreamer. Still, I'm super happy with this one :mark:. Hope it doesn't suck!

Ok, so whoever gets pinned in this match is eliminated, and next week its a triple threat between the final 3. Someone loses that match, and we get a singles match between the final 2, and the winner faces Swagger at Backlash.

Henry early on it just in full on BEAST MODE. He even looks awesome when he gets taken out of the match for a little while, as it takes all 3 of his opponents just to suplex him, then take him out of the ring, then throw him into the stairs.

Dreamer literally just disappears at one point. I *think* I saw him jump off the apron... but I don't really know what he did. If he jumped on Henry... then why was he so hurt? Henry didn't do anything I don't think because he's still down and out when Dreamer gets back in again. LOL.

Henry gets back in and just murders Dreamer with a clothesline. Then Christian takes him down, goes for a cover, and Henry powers out of it and throws Christian right into a cover on Dreamer. Awesome little spot.

WSS attempt on Dreamer, shot to Henry's head with the sheleighly, and Finlay pins him. Booo . Henry should have kept going dammit.

Great stuff.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Very pleased that WWE looks to be continuing their Jack Swagger/Zeb Coulter push. Swagger to me believe it or not is like Brock Lesnar LITE, with tons of experience on the amateur scene translating to skills in performing. I don't know, some people like to criticize him as looking "goofy" but I think he brings a certain aura to him kind of like Brock did once upon a time (though obviously not even close to Brock's magnitude), and has a natural charisma that when paired with a guy like Zeb can go out there and just WRESTLE. 

Plus he had that supposed epic match against Christian on ECW in 2009 which I never saw believe it or not because I didn't watch ANY ECW after 2006 if it wasn't PPV. Anybody wanna throw out some recommendations for some Henry/Swagger matches that happened in the late years of WWECW ? All I've got to do is finish this last disc of RAW&SD2012 and I've got NOC 10 on tap but then I have literally NOTHING NEW to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everything at *** and above from my ECW 09 run so far. Most involve Swagger, Christian and Henry:

Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - ECW 24/04/2009 - ****1/2
John Morrison Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 14/04/2009 - ****
Matt Hardy Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - ECW 13/01/2009 - ****
Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 03/02/2009 - ***3/4
Christian & Finlay Vs Jack Swagger & Mark Henry - ECW 17/02/2009 - ***1/4
Mark Henry Vs Christian Vs Finlay Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 07/04/2009 - ***1/4
Matt Hardy Vs Mark Henry - ECW 06/01/2009 - ***1/4
Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 06/01/2009 - ***
Jack Swagger Vs Matt Hardy – ECW Title - Royal Rumble 25/02/2009 - ***
Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW 10/02/2009 - ***
Christian & Finlay Vs Mark Henry & Kane - ECW 31/03/2009 - ***
Christian, Finlay & Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger, The Miz & John Morrison - ECW 03/03/2009 - ***


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Very pleased that WWE looks to be continuing their Jack Swagger/Zeb Coulter push. Swagger to me believe it or not is like Brock Lesnar LITE, with tons of experience on the amateur scene translating to skills in performing. I don't know, some people like to criticize him as looking "goofy" but I think he brings a certain aura to him kind of like Brock did once upon a time (though obviously not even close to Brock's magnitude), and has a natural charisma that when paired with a guy like Zeb can go out there and just WRESTLE.
> 
> Plus he had that supposed epic match against Christian on ECW in 2009 which I never saw believe it or not because I didn't watch ANY ECW after 2006 if it wasn't PPV. Anybody wanna throw out some recommendations for some Henry/Swagger matches that happened in the late years of WWECW ? All I've got to do is finish this last disc of RAW&SD2012 and I've got NOC 10 on tap but then I have literally NOTHING NEW to watch.




agreed, id like to see his matches longer to see what he really has. Maybe swagger/Del Rio can steal the show at maina


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JACK SWAGGER :mark: :mark: :mark:

This Bryan-Ziggler match from RAW 2012 is ballin' as shit, this is more like it... More of this and less of shitty Santino segments PLZ.

No doubt in my mind that if Swagger wasn't paired with such a dull opponent like Del Rio at Wrestlemania that he'd be involved in a show stealing match. Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger would tear the fucking house down and have MOTN potential if given 10-15 minutes (somewhere in that range), but I'm honestly so bored with whatever Alberto does that I can't see me rating Del Rio vs Swagger anything above three and a half. Alberto just doesn't wrestle classics 

Now I kinda REALLY wanna see Bryan-Swagger. FUCK. How was that Orton-Swagger match on Smackdown anyways ? I've heard nothing but positive things so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

John Morrison Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 14/04/2009

Draft happened last week. So would this be the awesome match people were pimping like a motherfucker back in the day? I remember liking it but nowhere near the level or everywhere else.

Holy mother of fuck. Bourne takes some KILLER bumps. Leg sweep on the apron folds him up all nasty, and he takes 2 running knees to the face following it that look REGAL nasty.

Morrison looks like a fucking BOSS on offence here. Seriously. Shocked me too. He works over Bourne real fucking nicely, Bourne has some cool unique counters and comebacks, and Morrison is great at cutting him off. Some more nasty strikes from both of them, with Bourne wrestling like he's back in ROH at times too with some of his STIFF SHOTS.

Fucking PERFECTLY timed crossbody from Bourne to Morrison who was just about to run the ropes, so they go over the top instead. He literally hit him with the move the moment Morrison's back hit the ropes.

They both sell the match well the further it goes, and they really work the spots into the match well too. This is just a fucking great match, definitely something I wish I'd re-watched before. A top ECW 09 match for sure.

Rating: ****

Finlay Vs Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 14/04/2009

Time for this Backlash #1 contenders match thingy to continue! Really would have liked Henry to have made it through. Christian beating Henry in the final would have been a nice momentum builder for him I think.

No Henry = no BEAST to truly dominate the match, so its a real back and forth match for the most part, with everyone taking turns at being in control. I like how they don't just do the typical "take on guy out, 2 wrestle in the ring" shit. They DO have Christian stay on the outside half way into the match leaving Finlay and Dreamer 1 on 1, but Finlay actually takes the time to go back outside and take Christian out again so he has a REASON to remain there for so long.

Dreamer looks really good here, something that definitely surprised me because I've never thought much of Dreamer at all. His old ECW matches, pretty much all of his stuff in WWE etc, but he has been far from bad thus far in his ECW 09 run, and he had a great No DQ match or something with Swagger in late 08 that I would go as far as to say it's Dreamer's best match.

Nice finishing stretch with the 3, and while Christian is tied up in the ropes, Finlay beats Dreamer. Christian Vs Finlay next week :mark:.

Great match. Awesome show to have this and Morrison/Bourne on it. This title chase match thingy had produced 2 great matches out of 2 so far. Christian/Finlay should be great too. Then Christian/Swagger at Backlash? Fuck yes.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Now I kinda REALLY wanna see Bryan-Swagger. FUCK. How was that Orton-Swagger match on Smackdown anyways ? I've heard nothing but positive things so far.


It was a good match and probably Orton's best in a while (EC excluded). I really don't get the buzz about him here. I'm so indifferent to him that I might turn off my stream when the World Title match is on.

And comparing him to Lesnar? LOL, just no. Lesnar screams EXCITEMENT as soon as he walks down the ramp. Swagger gives me that "skip this shit" vibe.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finlay Vs Christian - Superstars 16/04/2009

So the finals of the ECW title chase match... takes place on SUPERSTARS. Bah. Well, it was the FIRST Superstars show ever (well, first of the new version of it), and between this match and Undertaker appearing, they wanted to make it a big show. Compliment to Christian and Finlay .

Great non stop action here. Both guys are just desperate to win so they can go to Backlash and wrestle Swagger for the ECW title. Everything they do looks nasty and hard hitting with neither man gaining any kind of advantage. Then Christian is able to hit the Killswitch OUTOFNOWHERE and fuck, Finlay looks like he went head first into the mat for real. It was pretty short, but they packed so much into with due to the fast pace without making it a spot fest or any of that shit. Good but a little disappointing at the same time.

Rating: **3/4

Paul Burchill Vs Evan Bourne - 21/04/2009

Seriously, Burchill looks like a fat Drew McIntyre. Its uncanny.

Burchill wrestlers a Regal-esque match, only not as good obviously, but he looks nice and nasty with his offence, and Bourne is a perfect guy to really bump and sell this shit. Incredible overhead butterfly suplex from Burchill.

Another awesome version of an overhead suplex from Burchill. Makes me mark out a little . Only real problem with Burchill is that he does a ton of rest holds. He DOES work the holds a little, but he seems to do far too many in one match. A little bit of variety would be nice.

Things manage to pick up when Bourne makes a comeback, and he looks great doing so. Finish falls a little flat, and the crowd weren't really into the match at all, but I quite liked it for the most part. Just needed less rest holds.

Rating: **1/4


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I wanted to keep this out of the GOAT thread, even though I don't even kniw if that would belong their, but who are your Top 10 favorite performers of all time, and it could include all of their work. Mine are as followed:

Ric Flair 
Terry Funk
Mick Foley
DA GAME
CM Punk
Daniel Bryan Danielson
HBK
Undertaker
Finlay mark
Brock Lesnar

Keep in mind I am only doing guys that have been with WCW/WWF/WWE in their career, or else this list would be different.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FAVOURITE and not best? That's a list I can certainly put together .

Undertaker
Ric Flair
Terry Funk
Mick Foley
William Regal
Eddie Guerrero
Shawn Michaels
Finlay
Chris Benoit
Vader

Honourable mention to the likes of Danielson, McGuinness, Tenryu, Lawler, Backlund, Murdoch, Lesnar, Mysterio and Christian.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well here is the second half of my Kidman/Guerrera series. Unfortunately, I could not find two of their matches in 1999, but I did get to review their two best matches together.

*[August 10, 1998] *


Spoiler: Match #10



*[**1/4]* 

By this point, Juventud Guerrera finally became the Cruiserweight champion after a grueling battle with Jericho. Juvi defends his title here against Kidman just a day after winning it. Unfortunately for us, the powers that be only gave them a couple minutes to work with for their first ever title match. This match really just did not "click" like their past few encounters. FINALLY Juvi hits his wheelbarrow maneuver for only a two count. We see nothing new here, except for Kidman's new clean attire that makes him look less like a heroin addict. Juvi with a sloppy 450 splash for the phoned-in victory. 

*Things to look out for: Kidman's new attire, No Lodi at ringside*



*[September 14, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #11



*[***1/2]* 

FACE KIDMAN! These fans finally get their chance to cheer for Kidman after months of waiting for that opportunity. Looks like he stopped scratching too. This is the title match that they should have had a month ago. Kidman does a springboard headscissor takedown that we have not seen in any of their other matches. Action slows down for a couple minutes, but gets back to the frantic pace after the commercial break. Oh dear, now we get a chinlock from Kidman, but thankfully it was very short. Crowd went crazy for the BK Bomb. Boos from the crowd after the BK Bomb and the wheelbarrow suplex only get a two. Kidman gets to perform more offense here than in any other match between the two. Pace quickens again once Juvi gets back on the offensive. *WOW!* Juvi Driver reversed into an inverted suplex by Kidman only gets a two count. It sounds like the fans have turned on Juvi and are now on Kidman's side. Kidman reverses Juvi's aerial maneuver to another BK Bomb. SSP! SSP! Kidman wins the match as well as the Cruiserweight championship. Awesome ending sequence. 

*Things to look out for: Kidman as a face, Inverted suplex, Two BK Bombs*



*[October 26, 1998] *


Spoiler: Match #12



*[***1/2] *

This is the first time I remember Kidman having entrance music. Goodness gracious, the pace here is faster than it was in any of their other matches. Although this was one of their shorter matches, these two have developed such good chemistry that anything they put together now is gold. BRAINBUSTAAHHH from Juvi. Seriously, these two are on their game tonight. Cool looking back suplex by Kidman. Fameasser! A Fameasser by Juvi for only a two count. Man I can never get tired of Kidman's wheelbarrow suplex. Kidman tries to do another one, but Juvi FINALLY hits the bulldog. No wasted motion here. For the first time that I can remember, Kidman kicks out of Juvi's super-Frankensteiner. Also this is the first match between the two where they use the "You Can't Powerbomb Kidman" spot. BK Bomb and SSP gets the three count for Kidman. This was honestly one of the best sub-5 minute matches that I have ever seen. Certainly up there with the likes of Owen/123 and Punk/Mysterio. 

*Things to look out for: Brainbuster, Fameasser, Kidman's powerbomb reversal*



*[November 16, 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #13



*[****1/4]* 

Although Kidman was scheduled to have a title match with Mysterio in a couple days, he decides to put the title on the line tonight against Juvi. No objections here, but Kidman doesn't seem like the smartest pickle. Hot crowd, which should be a great sign of things to come. Juventud is having a hard time rolling out of the ring. :lmao Kidman suplexes Juvi back into the ring for a nice pop. A flurry of chops from Juvi which leads to the ten-punch corner spot. :lmao at Juvi yelling at the camera and sticking his tongue out. Loud "Juvi Sucks" chants. Oh man, Kidman takes a hard fall after jumping over the top rope. Now some "Juvi" chants from the crowd. Love how each of these guys are trading springboard leg drops with each other. Juvi selling the wear and tear of the match after each of his high-risk maneuvers. SPINEBUSTER! Juvi with a spinebuster. Pace naturally slows down to further the story of both of these guys selling the after-effects of the match, but nothing feels forced, which is great news. Juvi goes for the powerbomb, but Kidman reverses it into a facebuster. Here come the nearfalls! Oh man that Juvi Driver looked painful. Kidman almost landed on his head there. Juvi looks worried now since he has thrown everything on to Kidman, but it doesn't work. Juvi puts Kidman up on the top rope, but Kidman low blows Juvi, even though he is a face. BK BOMB! TOP ROPE BK BOMB! And it *ONLY* gets a two! This crowd is on fire. Kidman goes for the SSP, but Juvi brings him off the turnbuckle and down to the ground. Juvi goes for the 450 for the win and the championship. 

After the match, Kidman grabs the belt away from the referee. It looks like he is reluctant to giving away the Cruiserweight Title to Guerrera, but eventually he hands the belt to Juvi and embraces him for a pop. This was definitely the best match that these two had so far. While most of their other matches were fast-paced sprints, this one had more "structure" for a lack of a better term. Both guys sold their hearts out and the crowd bought into each and every single move and counter done. Hats off to both of these guys. 

*Things to look out for: Low blow-BK Bomb, Spike Juvi Driver*



*[World War III 1998]* 


Spoiler: Match #14



*[****1/4] *

Just a few days after their clinic, these two have a rematch at the World War III PPV. Not sure what happened to Mysterio who was scheduled for this match, but I have no problem with this rematch. Juvi has finally joined the LWO, thus turning heel in the process. So far the turn is working, because these fans do not like Juventud. The Fameasser from their match a few months ago has come back for tonight. Juvi continues to taunt the crowd to sell his new heel character. Kidman back on the offensive. Emerald Frosion from Kidman. I have not seen him ever use that move. Juvi's spinebuster is now part of his regular offense. For the first time in their series, Juvi is the one that puts a resthold on Kidman, further playing off his heel attitude. Love how Kidman and Juvi have switched roles in this match. Juvi goes for the tornado DDT, but Kidman reverses it, only for Juvi to hit him with a stunner on the apron. Kidman with a painful lariat and dropkick. He really knows how to show off his aggressive side as well as his high-risk offense. Flying hurricanrana by Juvi brings the action to the outside. Juvi now taunting the members of the audience at ringside. Man, he can play a heel just as well as he can play a face. BRAINBUSTAAAHHH! Juvi's control segment kicks so much ass. Every time Kidman tries to fight back, Juventud dropkicks him in the face. 

As we get towards the half-way mark, the action moves on to the second ring. WW3 may be a big clusterfuck, but the concept of three rings is a nice touch especially when it is utilized in the singles matches. Juvi with a double springboard into another dropkick. Kidman hits his own dropkick to start his comeback sequence. Unfortunately for Kidman, he misses the corner splash, which sets up Juvi's offense. WOW! Kidman does a springboard headscissor takedown on Juvi to send him back to the first ring. Double springboard crossbody for only a two count. Kidman rushes towards Juvi, but Juvi flips him over into the top rope of another ring. Double springboard into a frankensteiner for just a two! Juvi signals for the Juvi Driver, which garners some boos. Juvi goes for the Driver, which is reversed by Kidman into an inverted suplex, which is reversed AGAIN by Juvi into the Juvi Driver. Great sequence. Instead of going for the pinfall though, Juvi gets greedy and attempts the 450. Kidman gets out of the way, but Guerrera recovers and does a hurricanrana for only a two count. Now Juvi lashes out at the referee, which is something he never did in any of their other matches. Did Juvi just slap Charles Robinson? Juvi goes for the powerbomb only to get busted in the face. The crowd has simulatenously erupted! Kidman gets ready to do the SSP, but Juvi joins Kidman at the turnbuckle. What is this? Is that Rey Mysterio? Just as Juvi goes for a frankensteiner off the top rope, Rey holds on to Kidman's shorts to make sure that Kidman does not fall. Kidman gets ready, and BAM! SSP for the win and the championship! What a feel good moment. 

After the match, Kidman rolls out of the ring while Rey gets back in. Suddenly Eddie Guerrero and gang storm to the ring to confront Mysterio. Eddie asks Rey if his allegiance is still with the LWO, which Rey replies by throwing his LWO shirt at Eddie's face and runs to the back. This match, and everything afterwards was just all kinds of awesome. This match had everything that the other matches had, and then some. Juvi nailed this new attitude of his, while Kidman finally gets to play his natural face role in this match. So many new moves as well as the fantastic moves of old. Please, whatever you do, watch this match! 

*Things to look out for: Heel Juvi, All the springboard maneuvers, Mysterio*



*[October 4, 1999]* 


Spoiler: Match #15



*[***1/2]* 

Profightdb says that these two had a couple other encounters in 1999, but for the life of me, I cannot find them anywhere. This last match in their series happened in the Owen Hart tribute Nitro, so this one was not too hard to find. Juvi is now known as "The Juice", akin to Mr. Johnson who is making major moves in the other brand. These two trade forearms to start the match, which then leads to Kidman's sick backdrop. Kidman mocks Juvi to the delight of the crowd. Back and forth action continues between the two just like old times. GOOD LORD, did Kidman just do a German suplex to Juvi to the floor? Kidman teases a handshake, which Juvi takes the bait only to get fireman carried. Luckily for Juvi, he reverses it into a tornado DDT, which sets up the LATINO ELBOW! The Juice tells us all that he knows our role as we head to commercial break. 

As we get back from break, this match starts to get a bit out of hand. After some maneuver trading, Juvi signals Psychosis to come down to the ring. Unfortunately for Hypnosis, the high flyer of the highest magnitude gets a fist in the face for his struggles from Kidman. Juventud and Psychosis try to pull some more shenanigans, but Kidman fights off both of them in succession. *WHAT A BULLDOG* from Juvi. A great sequence just occurs where Juvi escapes a powerbomb, Kidman reverses the Juvi Driver, and Juvi reverses Kidman's inverted suplex into another bulldog. Juvi goes for the 450, but Kidman gets out of the way. BK Bomb out of nowhere, but Psychosis bothers Kidman enough for Juventud to recover. As Mysterio argues with the referee regarding Psychosis' constant distractions, Juvi hits the Juvi Driver for the victory. Solid match, but it never got to that next gear that their last two encounters in 1998 did. 

*Things to look out for: Juvi's Rocky impersonations, Sequence of counters mentioned in review*




*Final Thoughts:* The best way that I could describe these two is that they made the best out of the little time given to them. I can only count a couple minutes in their entire series where the match felt like it was just dragging along. Props to WCW for allowing these two to have a couple extended matches. My favorite part of this series was the fact that each match these two had together had a hot crowd that bought into every maneuver. A wild crowd really helps make a wrestling match easier to watch.

I have to really give my respects to anyone and everyone that ever did an extended review of anything. It is very tiring to make all these full length reviews in such short time, but at the same time, it certainly was fun to do. I could still use some improvement in my diction and formatting, and I could definitely be more concise. I'm thinking of reviewing all the Jericho/Eddie tag matches for my next project, as well as maybe another project reviewing the Mysterio/Malenko series.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Not in any order:

CM Punk
Chris Jericho
Kurt Angle
Undertaker
Chris Benoit
Shawn Michaels
Brock Lesnar
Eddie Guerrero 
Rey Mysterio
Stone Cold Steve Austin


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Damn Cal, you reminded me I forgot to do Honorable Mentions: Benoit, Christian, Regal, Mysterio counting as the WWE performers. If I did all time then oh god.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Naming a Top 10 is going to be hard work but I'll give it a try:

Mick Foley (will always be top)
The Undertaker
Steve Austin
Terry Funk
Bret Hart
Vader
Brock Lesnar
Roddy Piper
Raven
Jake Roberts

This list will change a lot so here's some guys who just miss out: Shawn Michaels, CM Punk, Big Boss Man, Ric Flair, William Regal, Fit Finlay

Tag Teams:
Legion Of Doom
Dudley Boyz
APA
Hart Foundation
Not sure...Rockers maybe

Man, would've love to see Legion Of Doom vs. APA with both teams in their prime.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top 10 favorite performers:

Bret
Undertaker
Punk
Jericho
Michaels
Eddie
Bryan
Benoit
Raven
Funk


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Also, I need some help with this for my Top 1000, does anyone have like 50-75 awesometag matches they are willing to recommend to me, they could be PPV/TV I do not care, just need a list to waddle through


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Top _1000_? Are you serious?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tanner1495 said:


> Also, I need some help with this for my Top 1000, does anyone have like 50-75 awesometag matches they are willing to recommend to me, they could be PPV/TV I do not care, just need a list to waddle through


Too lazy to go through and get just the tag matches myself, but here is the top 100 list compiled by myself and a number of other guys from here and another site, which has a bunch of tag matches (just WWF/E, right? Cos we have a WCW list too lol)

http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/wetop100wwfecomp.html


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Favourites who've spent time in WWF/E and/or WCW:

Lawler
Funk
Arn
Vader
Finlay
Regal
Eddie
Dustin Rhodes
Steamboat
Hansen

Would have included Tenryu if I wasn't basing it on significant time in one of the companies.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Top _1000_? Are you serious?


Yes, a Top 1000 of all time, all promotions, everything. The list will show some partial bias, because honestly there are matches I have ranked too high and too low so yup, any recommendations for anything would be awesome, and if they are non WWE/WCW/Mid South or anything like that you can just message them to me!

Also, my "nominations" list will be roughly 1800-2200 matches long I predict, should be fun to say the least!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Favourites who've spent time in WWF/E and/or WCW:
> 
> Lawler
> Funk
> ...


Shhhiiiit, how did I forget Arn, Dustin and Steamboat? Steamboat would make my top 10 favs. Other 2 honourable mentions .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Favorite ring performers... (in no order except #1)

Chris Benoit
Randy Orton
Stone Cold
Rey Mysterio
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
Undertaker
Shawn Michaels
Eddie Guerrero
Triple H


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

In no order:

Benoit 
Guerrero 
Savage - haven't seen many with him on their list. Baffling...
Flair 
Hbk
Austin 
Foley 
Taker 
Jericho 
Punk

Trips, Hennig, Owen and Bret, angle get honorable mentions


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Agh can't believe I forgot Savage, Perfect and Dibiase. Shit.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

I know i've probably missed the boat with this, but just watching Wrestlemania 20 now and has there ever been a more star-studded card in Mania history?

Rock
Austin
Taker
HHH
Shawn Michaels
Mick Foley
Ric Flair
Kane
Brock Lesnar
Goldberg
Kurt Angle
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Jericho
Chris Benoit
Christian
Rey Mysterio
John Cena
Batista
Randy Orton
Big Show
RVD
Booker T
Rikishi
The Dudleyz

All that big-name value & they still had time to squeeze in relative no-bodies like Jindrak, Cade etc...

I can only think of Matt Hardy & Edge as the other big names to miss out on WM 20 and IIRC, they were both injured at the time...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Favorites: 

HBK
Jericho
Flair
Bret
Savage
Austin
Taker
Eddie Guerrero
Ricky Steamboat
Triple H
Hennig
Bryan
Punk


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I dunno, I think Savage is great and when he's channeling the cocaine induced sleazebag from Memphis and '97 WCW vs DDP he's one of my absolute favourites guys to watch as he plays a convincing psychopath as well as anyone in wrestling has ever done. But well, when I see a 'favourite' list as opposed to an outright 'best' list I look it as more guys who's matches I could watch for an entire day and not get bored. Not trying to say Savage is a guy I would tire watching of, but well someone like Arn just has an erray of tricks in his bag whatever the match or setting to keep me hooked to the point that if you found me 10 Arn matches vs 10 Savage matches I'd probably be more excited in watching the Arn matches.

fwiw on my list I'd be inclined to think everyone of them would end up higher than Savage if I was asked to name the 'best' wrestlers. Again not a knock on Savage but more praise and recognition for how good the others are. Regal, Dustin and Finlay might stick out of the 10 as the most curious to some, but well Regal and Finlay feel infinitely complete as workers and Dustin is one of my absolute favourites. Such an overlooked talent.

Dibiase is actually someone I forgot. I was about to say his best stuff came outside of WWF, but fuck I've listed Dustin, Lawler, Funk, Vader, Steamboat, Arn & Vader. Again just watching his Mid South stuff as a babyface or heel its astounding how he still attracts discussion that his personality and charisma was all he had. He's a brilliant brawler and worker in general and one of the best Mid South had to offer in their time.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Favorite performers:
HBK
Flair
HHH
Taker
Jericho
Arn
Foley
Angle
Austin
Lesnar

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rock
Stone Cold Steve Austin
Shawn Michaels
Kurt Angle
Randy Savage
Brock Lesnar
CM Punk
Mick Foley
Eddie Guerrero
Goldberg


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

In order:

Bret Hart
Chris Benoit
Stone Cold
The British Bulldog
Lou Thesz
Shawn Michaels
John Cena
The Rock
Daniel Bryan
Triple H
CM Punk
Eddie Guerrero
Brock Lesnar
Chris Jericho
Fit Finlay


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Top Ten Favorites
Edge
The Rock
Chris Jericho
Undertaker
Shawn Michaels
Mick Foley
Randy Orton
Stone Cold
Daniel Bryan
Eddie Guerrero

Honorable Mentions: Finlay, Raven, Sting, Dolph Ziggler, Triple H and Kane


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My top 5 order is pretty set. After that it's tough. Remember this is favorite not best buuuuut I do think my #1 is the GOAT. 

1. Savage
2. Foley
3. Bret Hart
4. Sting
5. DiBiase
6. Steamboat
7. Flair
8. Rock
9. HHH
10. Taker

Angle, Austin, Pillman, Eddie G, Perfect and Edge just missed the cut. Punk and Bryan will be in the top 10 someday. A small dream I have (that will probably never come true) is Punk V Bryan main eventing Wrestlemania in an Iron Man match to unify the titles.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

All time favorite performers, no order:

Ric Flair (GOAT)
Shawn Michaels
Bret Hart
AJ Styles
Bryan Danielson
CM Punk
Great Muta
Randy Orton for about the first 6 years of his career

That's essentially where the list ends. I'm certainly fans of lots of other guys but no one else I'd really call a favorite or anything.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Off the top of my head ;

Triple H
Ric Flair
CM Punk
Randy Savage
Brock Lesnar
Chris Benoit
Bret Hart
Brian Pillman
Chris Jericho
Eddie Guerrero


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Favourite Performers off the top of my head :

Shawn Michaels
Chris Jericho 
Mick Foley
Randy Savage
CM Punk
Triple H
Daniel Bryan
Brock Lesnar
Steve Austin
Ric Flair


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingOfKings Top 50 Matches in Wrestlemania History : 20-16


20. _"But the MEMORY REMAINS"_










The Undertaker vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell W/ Referee Shawn Michaels ; Wrestlemania XXVIII) : ***** 1/4*


19. _"Lesnar going to the top rope...."_










WWE Championship - Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX): ***** 1/4*


18. _"CHARLES ROBINSON COMING TO COUNT TO THREE"_










World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV) : ***** 1/2*


17. _"Razor is climbing the ladder.... MICHAELS IS TANGLED UP"_










Intercontinental Championship - Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels (Ladder Match ; Wrestlemania X) : ***** 1/2*


16. _Edge is climbing the... NOT THIS WAY! DAMN IT!"_










Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Christian vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Benoit vs Kane (Money in the Bank Ladder Match ; Wrestlemania XXI) : ***** 1/2*


Edging closer and closer to the top 10 here, with two of the greatest ladder matches in Wrestlemania history coming in on this list. I fucking adore the Wrestlemania X ladder match as it has basically been said 8 billion times ; it's Shawn Michaels going out there and wrestling a ladder. It's an all around classic but my pick for the best Wrestlemania ladder match would be the very first MITB ladder match, with a GOAT spot monkey performance by Shelton Benjamin, spots that look natural and not contrived or forced, no botches, and Benoit bringing DAT psychology to the mix, what's not to love ?

Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar from Wrestlemania XIX cranks in at XIX..... WHOA THE SAME THING AS THE GAME-CENA MATCH. Anyways, I think this is the "weakest" match of their trilogy in 2003 but that doesn't stop it from being one of the very best main events in Wrestlemania history, with both guys almost killing each other in the process. If you ever thought the Mania XIV main event was brutal with Shawn, Kurt's performance in this was perhaps his finest ever given the circumstances that he could have KILLED HIMSELF in the process.

YES, MORE STREAK MATCHES. Taker-GAME from this year's HIAC I've talked about 8 billion times and beaten into the ground but I'll say quickly what I thought ; brutal, classic match and a fitting end to a wonderful story arc, but felt far too pretentious to move into "EPIC GOAT" standards. It's a classic and one of Taker's finest Mania matches (hence why it's number 20), but the Edge match narrows it out. What can I say about that one ? Taker goes out and gives one of his greatest performances ever, giving Edge his greatest non gimmick match ever. PLUS YOU GET THAT CHARLES ROBINSON RUN. YES.

What to look for on the last stop before the top 10 ? No more hints at this point as we're getting into OMG FUCKING EPIC TERRITORY, but I will say this ; I've seen five stars given by credible individuals to four of the next five matches :mark: :mark: :mark:. 

NOW COMMENCE WITH THE STARZ & SUBSEQUENT DISCUSSION :mark: :mark: :mark:​


Spoiler: The List So Far



50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV)
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX)
48. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV)
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI)
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII)
45. Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII)
44. The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII)
43. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV)
42. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7)
41. Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII)
40. Batista vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI)
39. CM Punk vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXVII)
38. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania X-8)
37. Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI)
36. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania XXIV)
35. Christian vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XX)
34. Mick Foley vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXII)
33. Triple H vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX)
32. TLC II (Wrestlemania X-7)
31. MITB IV (Wrestlemania XXIV)
30. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7)
29. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV)
28. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI)
27. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
26. Triple H vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 2000)
25. Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XX)
24. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
23. The Undertaker vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania X-8)
22. Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXII)
21. The Undertaker vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXIII)
20. The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVIII)
19. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. The Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV)
17. Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon (Wrestlemania X)
16. MITB I (Wrestlemania XXI)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Again, awesome job and no real disagreements other than thinking that I would've probably put End of an Era a bit higher.

Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVIII) - ★★★★½
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX) - ★★★★
Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ★★★★
Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania X) - ★★★★
Money in the Bank I (Wrestlemania 21) - ★★★★½

EDIT: Some matches that I expect (no brainer most of them) in the top 15. WM20 triple threat, Austin/Bret, Bret/Owen, HBK/Taker 25 & 26, Austin/ROCK 17 and 19, Punk/Jericho 28. Oh and Trips/Taker 27. And HBK/Cena.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Again another awesome batch of matches, I'd personally have HHH/Taker (was there live :mark and HBK/Razor higher, but no complaints on the ratings of the others. Nice to see that Warrior/Savage is gonna be high on your list as well. 

With only 2 manias left to watch for my list, I've got 5, 5 stars matches from WM, how many on your list KOK?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

What's your full list so far KOK?

Taker/HHH - ****1/2
Lesnar/Angle - ****1/4
Taker/Edge - ****1/2
Razor/HBK - ****
MITB I - ****1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVIII) - ****
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX) - ****1/4
Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ****1/4
Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania X) - ****3/4
Money in the Bank I (Wrestlemania 21) - ****1/4

On the same page with most of these. I'd put HBK/Razor much higher, but rest are about the same in ratings. My 20-16:

(****1/4)
20) Savage vs. Flair WM8
19) MITB WM24
18) Edge vs. Foley WM22
17) MITB WM21
16) Hogan vs. Savage WM5


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Top ten favorites (no order)

Shawn Michaels
Stone cold
Kurt angle
The Undertaker
HHH
Chris Jericho
Kane
The rock
Edge
Randy Orton


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

@ *Alim*, I have the full list up to this point added to the previous post I added so you can go check that shit out.

@ *Rawk*, you've certainly got a ton of love for that ladder match. I think Cody still has it at five stars but he's a ladder match AFICIONADO anyways so naturally he's crazy about DEM LADDERS.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I personally think HBK/Razor ladder match is a little overrated IMO. Id rank Benoit/Jericho and HBK/Jericho ladders matches ahead of HBK/Razor.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I personally think HBK/Razor ladder match is a little overrated IMO. Id rank Benoit/Jericho and HBK/Jericho ladders matches ahead of HBK/Razor.


I feel the same way. Hell, I'd rank the ladder match between The Rock and Triple H for the Intercontinental title at Summerslam 98 as higher than Razor Romon and Shawn Michaels' ladder match at WrestleMania 10.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Triple H
Arn Anderson
VADER
Brock Lesnar
Hulk Hogan
John Cena

They're easily the top six, in no real order. Any others would just be ones I'd vaguely liked at some point. Grew up watching old Hogan tapes then watching him in WCW (I recall a cage match with Vader at Bash of the Beach that I was really into). I've always liked Cena for some reason, his promos often infuriate me but I enjoy his matches. Triple H is my all time favourite, the wedding interruption made me think "damn this guy is a motherfucker". Lesnar beating the piss out of everyone, especially Zach Gowen, will always make me a fan. Arn Anderson and Vader are two I got into within the past couple of years, both underrated and both awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The last time I watched that Summerslam 1998 ladder match I thought it didn't hold up NEARLY as well as before. Doomsayer hit the nail on the head when he said Jericho/Benoit was the BEE'S KNEES because in all honesty it is. Greatest ladder match ever by a fair margin as far as I'm concerned.

I have no idea why the main event of Wrestlemania XIX isn't talked about as much as it should be. Hell, the Wrestlemania XII main event seems to be mentioned 800 times every year but you rarely ever hear mention of Brock vs Kurt. Was that due to BROCK and KURT once having bad blood with the WWE, or another case of Vince just loving Shawn more than anybody else in history ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> @ *Alim*, I have the full list up to this point added to the previous post I added so you can go check that shit out.
> 
> @ *Rawk*, you've certainly got a ton of love for that ladder match. I think Cody still has it at five stars but he's a ladder match AFICIONADO anyways so naturally he's crazy about DEM LADDERS.


(Y)

Indeed I do.

As for the rest:

Undertaker vs Triple H 28 - **** _(desperately need a rewatch)_
Brock vs Angle - ****
Undertaker vs Edge - ****
MITB I - ****3/4

So all of those being in the thick of it doesn't come as a surprise to me. All credible bouts. Especially the ladder matches.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Indeed I do.


(Y) 

There is another, I think I'm coming to like you Cody.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Taker/HHH: ***3/4

Brock/Angle: ****1/2 (Lesnars best match IMO)

HBK/Razor: ***1/2

Undertaker/Edge: ****

MITB 1: need to rewatch


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Regal, Finlay, or Eaton on these "all time greats" lists is too bad. Guess it's a sign WWE has gotten to the masses entirely. You want to talk about men who made matches special. Their traits, nuances, and ability to be classified as ring generals is truly brilliant. Withstanding any form or time or exposure all three managed to make lemonade out of lemons. Certainly on a higher level than a Triple H or an Edge. _(can't believe Edge got a mention, actually.)_


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> No Regal, Finlay, or Eaton on these "all time greats" lists is too bad. Guess it's a sign WWE has gotten to the masses entirely. You want to talk about men who made matches special. Their traits, nuances, and ability to be classified as ring generals is truly brilliant. Withstanding any form or time or exposure all three managed to make lemonade out of lemons. Certainly on a higher level than a Triple H or an Edge. _(can't believe Edge got a mention, actually.)_




What were you watching? Edge was the greatest superstar to compete in ladder/tlc matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only one singles TLC match was worth seeing involving Edge. And he wasn't even the driving force behind it being great. Flair earns the honors.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Only one singles TLC match was worth seeing involving Edge. And he wasn't even the driving force behind it being great. Flair earns the honors.




Fpalm

cena/edge tlc was flat out great. IMO it was cenas best match. and so was tlc at WM 17.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't aware TLC II was a singles TLC match.

It wasn't Cena or Edge's best match. Especially not Cena's. Has his entire 2007 been lost on you? Umaga Last Man Standing from Royal Rumble is excellent.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Wasn't aware TLC II was a singles TLC match.
> 
> It wasn't Cena or Edge's best match. Especially not Cena's. Has his entire 2007 been lost on you? Umaga Last Man Standing from Royal Rumble is excellent.




No arguing there that cena/umaga was great. I still rate cena/edge ahead of cena umaga though. Just my opinion. That tlc match had excellent spots, especially the finish.

Cena/Edge tlc: ****1/2

Cena/Umaga RR 07: ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So much of the match was contrived. Cena was very out of place. It showed. No mater how many times he's worked the gimmick, Edge isn't the type of wrestler to lead another through a match. It didn't work out very well for me. It's ok at best.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Fpalm
> 
> cena/edge tlc was flat out great. IMO it was cenas best match. and so was tlc at WM 17.


Nah, I wouldn't exactly call it Cena's best match. It was a good match, don't get me wrong, but it tends to get overrated by some. There were some dull parts to that match but overall, I enjoyed it. 

By the way, does anyone have any favorite Velocity gems? Mine would be Paul London vs Akio's series of matches. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Regal :side:

Wouldn't be much of a gem anymore. So maybe I'd have to pick, ideally, the majority of matches with Tajiri involved. He had a match vs Paul London in late '03 that runs through my mind as one of my personal favorites. To his credit, London had his share of wonderful matches on the program too. (London vs Kazarian = :mark


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I thought the list was favourites, which in that case doesn't stop someone listing Khali (lawls). If it was meant to be a legit best one then I'd have mentioned Finlay and/or Regal (genuinely don't know what the list was meant to be, just presumed faves). Just personal preference, you fuckwit :robben2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena/Edge TLC is very slow in some parts thats why i knock it down a couple notches when it comes to Cena's best matches.

1.) Cena/Michaels - Iron Man match on RAW
2.) Cena/Umaga - Last Man Standing match at the RR 2007
3.) Cena/Angle - Singles match at NWO 2005 (Very Underrated by most, I loved it though)
4.) Cena/JBL - I Quit match at JD 2005
5.) Cena/Edge - TLC match at UF 2006
6.) Cena/RVD - ECW match at ONS 2006
7.) Cena/Batista - Singles match at SS 2008
8.) Cena/Taker - Singles match at Vengeance 2003
9.) Cena/Brock - Extreme Rules match at ER 2012
10.) Cena/Rock - Singles match at WM28 (Preferably for the atmosphere)

Definitely not Edge's best match or in the top 10.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im thinking either 97 raws or 98 raws to download + some other random stuff


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Don't know about 10, but my top 5 cena matches would be: 

1. Cena/Edge TLC 06
2. Cena/HBK RAW 07
3. Cena/Punk MITB 2011
4. Cena/Angle vengeance 03
5. Cena/Umaga RR 07


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Don't know about 10, but my top 5 cena matches would be:
> 
> 1. Cena/Edge TLC 06
> 2. Cena/HBK RAW 07
> ...


It was Taker/Cena at Vengeance 2003, I think you mean No Mercy 2003.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

*Elimination Chamber 2013*

Del Rio vs. Big Show - ***3/4*
Antonio Cesaro vs. The Miz - ****
Chamber Match: Mark Henry vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jack Swagger vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - ******
Shield vs. Cena, Sheamus, Ryback - ****3/4*
Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston - ***1/2* (Fun short match)
Kaitlyn vs. Tamina Snuka - **1/2*
The Rock vs. CM Punk - ******

Three really good matches and some decent filler. Kind of an underrated show in my opinion. 

Overall - *8/10*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Orton from No Way Out '08 & Breaking Point should generally make most top lists for Cena's matches. Such excellent matches they are. Performances at Breaking Point always blow me away. The quintessential Cena vs Orton match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena vs Orton from No Way Out '08 & Breaking Point should generally make most top lists for Cena's matches. Such excellent matches they are. Performances at Breaking Point always blow me away. The quintessential Cena vs Orton match.




I'll probably put Cena/Orton NWO 08 in my top 10 cena match list. I'll have think about my other 4.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena vs Orton from No Way Out '08 & Breaking Point should generally make most top lists for Cena's matches. Such excellent matches they are. Performances at Breaking Point always blow me away. The quintessential Cena vs Orton match.


The only goodness of Breaking Point was when you saw Orton slam a kendle stick into Cena's ribs, The rest of the match was average at best. Summerslam 2007 was their best SINGLES match of the lot, It had the wrestling, psychology and the atmosphere.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I'll probably put Cena/Orton NWO 08 in my top 10 cena match list. I'll have think about my other 4.


It's a grand affair.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> The only goodness of Breaking Point was when you saw Orton slam a kendle stick into Cena's ribs, The rest of the match was average at best. Summerslam 2007 was their best SINGLES match of the lot, It had the wrestling, psychology and the atmosphere.


Not at all. Story alone wiped the floor with their Summerslam encounter. Summerslam had a structural problem for a good bit of it. Orton wasn't sure at where his offense was leaning. By the time things came together it wasn't enough to make it great. Only quite good.

If you want to bring it up: the story/psychology is what made the Breaking Point match great. Can't bring up the point and ignore one match _(Breaking Point)_ was packed to the brim with it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fack the SS 07 match. Was the same sequence of moves repeated over and over about 4 times then they went into a finish :|. NWO 08 blows away any of their matches for me lol .

Cody, I mentioned both Finlay and Regal in my top 10 favourite performers list, so foooook you biach .

Cena/Edge TLC kinda sucks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Fack the SS 07 match. Was the same sequence of moves repeated over and over about 4 times then they went into a finish :|. NWO 08 blows away any of their matches for me lol .
> 
> Cody, I mentioned both Finlay and Regal in my top 10 favourite performers list, so foooook you biach .
> 
> Cena/Edge TLC kinda sucks.


What about BOBBY EATON?

Agreed with the rest. Only, I'll continue to pimp Breaking Point along with NWO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haven't seen nearly enough Eaton to mention him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seeing Dangerous Alliance content is sort of enough to persuade you. :hayley2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Not at all. Story alone wiped the floor with their Summerslam encounter. Summerslam had a structural problem for a good bit of it. Orton wasn't sure at where his offense was leaning. By the time things came together it wasn't enough to make it great. Only quite good.
> 
> If you want to bring it up: the story/psychology is what made the Breaking Point match great. Can't bring up the point and ignore one match _(Breaking Point)_ was packed to the brim with it.


Orton punting Cena's dad is what made the psychology great, It gave you the feel that Cena wanted to destroy Orton. The wrestling was good but not as great as it could of beem and finally, The atmosphere was electric with people badly wanting Orton to gain the championship and beat Cean. It got to a point where i thought the crowd was actually gonna riot when Cena retained.

I think i am being a bit bias though, Their 2009 encounters were better in wrestling sense and equal in psychology. So i could see why you prefer them over the latter.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton didn't punt Cena's Dad till the following night.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I personally think every Cena/Orton match bar NWO sucks. Hate their chemistry. Would need to give BP match another watch, but fuck it, cba. Up to Backlash 2009 Christian/Swagger match on my ECW project, so fuck anything involving Cena and Orton!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chemistry wore out following their 2009 feud for me. It was never too omg worthy outside of the same two I'm blabbering about. Rest were either solid or bad, I guess. I actually do like their Iron Man now that I think about it.

Christian vs Swagger will make most series look bad. It's not fair to compare.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

My top ten cena matches: 

1. Cena/edge tlc unforgiven 2006

2. Cena/HBK Raw 07

3. Cena/punk MITB 2011

4. Cena/Angle No mercy 03

5. Cena/Umaga RR 07

6. Cena/RVD ONS 06

7. Cena/Taker vengeance 03

8. Cena/JBL I quit match judgment day 05

9. Cena/HBK WM 23

10.Cena/Jericho Summerslam 05 (stole the show)




I left cena/lesnar out because it's just lesnar destroying him the whole damn match and cena just makes a comeback and wins. Was also close of putting cena/rock and cena/Orton NWO 08, but they just miss my list. Those 2 will be my honorable mentions.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Orton didn't punt Cena's Dad till the following night.


My memory is horrible.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently downloading 1997 raw


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The RISE of Mick Foley as a lovable face to the WWF audience. :mark:

Undertaker, Austin, Harts, Vader, Shamrock, & BRIAN PILLMAN PROMOS too. Yay.

There is also Ahmad Johnson promos. Things to be less excited for. Despite the hilarity.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cody I listed Regal and Finlay, Eaton slipped my mind but I'd put him with Dibiase in an honourable mention. The people I had ahead of him are the cream of the crop in terms of entertainment for me, so its no disservice to Eaton.

Cena/Edge TLC is bleh and Cena has a tremendous number of greater matches than it. I get it has the spots and visual aesthetic to rank higher in people's minds, but there's very little in the way of great work in between the spots to hold the match together. Cody was bang on that Edge regardless of his reputation for being the quintessential TLC worker really couldn't lead anyone to that great a match in that environment. Heck Benoit in one night at Wrestlemania 21 put in a better performance and developed a structure and meaning to a ladder match than Edge ever did.

Whoever described Cena/Lesnar as 'Lesnar beats him up the whole damn match and Cena makes a comeback and wins' is grossly over simplifying the match btw. That was arguably Cena's best ever babyface performance, coupled with a mesmerising Lesnar performance on offence and managed to get across the very rare feeling of genuine and autentic violence in a WWE ring. It didn't come off as a spectacle passed off for something it wasn't, it legit felt uncomfortable and horribly violent and very un WWE in its execution and presentation. The timing of Cena's two big hope spots with the Backlund deadlift powerslam and the chain shot were wonderful and Lesnar appropriately sold both in a tremendous 'monster momentarily rocked and put in unfamiliar territory' and the finish felt like a genuine miracle comeback from Cena. No lazy execution or set up, no contrived formula, you really felt if he didn't win there and then he was helpless. One of the only times in years he's been truly made out to be a victim and a lamb to the slaughter and wouldn't you know, its a top 3 match of his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WC you were another one who my statement was exactly directed towards :side:

It's not a surprise Benoit managed to trump Edge with one effort at WM 21. Benoit does hold the distinction of being in ladder match that is wildly considering to be one of - if not the definitive - best in the history of WWF/WWE. Man has worked his magic in the scenario quite a bit.

I tried to ignore the Cena/Brock comment. For the life of me cannot understand the thinking of it. I get if someone dislike's Cena for whatever reasons it can leave them sour knowing he trumped Brock in his return, HOWEVER, to deny the match any significance of being a fabulous performance by Cena or a legitimately exquisite match, well, then that's being blind to the truth. It had the element of "realism" behind it better than dare I say most matches the company has ever, ever put out. That's the Brock factor on that night. Win or lose the man did his job perfectly. He deserves to be commended for it. He's an ass kicker. Not a wrestler. He made you believe. In addition, as did John-boy. To a massive extend he did. The punishment was so one sided you thought Brock's overwhelming force was truly dominating Cena. He couldn't fight back b/c there was no "traditional ebb & flow". It was Brock saying fuck the biz, I'm going to kill you. Cena breathed life into the fans. The passion. The story. The comeback. All was built into making what seemed to be a pro-Brock crowd into a crowd to get behind Cena. Magnificent performance by both. Without a doubt. Cena's could be slated higher considering the uphill struggle he had to eventually turn some fans thanks to his "controversial" nature.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> WC you were another one who my statement was exactly directed towards :side:
> 
> It's not a surprise Benoit managed to trump Edge with one effort at WM 21. Benoit does hold the distinction of being in ladder match that is wildly considering to be one of - if not the definitive - best in the history of WWF/WWE. Man has worked his magic in the scenario quite a bit.
> 
> I tried to ignore the Cena/Brock comment. For the life of me cannot understand the thinking of it. I get if someone dislike's Cena for whatever reasons it can leave them sour knowing he trumped Brock in his return, HOWEVER, to deny the match any significance of being a fabulous performance by Cena or a legitimately exquisite match, well, then that's being blind to the truth. It had the element of "realism" behind it better than dare I say most matches the company has ever, ever put out. That's the Brock factor on that night. Win or lose the man did his job perfectly. He deserves to be commended for it. He's an ass kicker. Not a wrestler. He made you believe. In addition, as did John-boy. To a massive extend he did. The punishment was so one sided you thought Brock's overwhelming force was truly dominating Cena. He couldn't fight back b/c there was no "traditional ebb & flow". It was Brock saying fuck the biz, I'm going to kill you. Cena breathed life into the fans. The passion. The story. The comeback. All was built into making what seemed to be a pro-Brock crowd into a crowd to get behind Cena. Magnificent performance by both. Without a doubt. Cena's could be slated higher considering the uphill struggle he had to eventually turn some fans thanks to his "controversial" nature.


You know I dig the Eaton man. If I suited blonde I'd be rocking a Beautiful Bobby mullet. I mean for christ sake even Morton and Tully escaped my list and those guys are right there as some of my favourites to watch. The 10 I listed just happened to eclipse them  .

Ha I overlooked Benoit/Jericho from Royal Rumble '01 but aye that's another demonstration of Benoit's talent in Ladder matches. Doesn't he have one from WCW as well from a Nitro/PPV? I want to say vs Jarrett but I could be woefully incorrect there. Edge feels like a guy who gains this reputation because of the volume of Ladder/TLC matches he worked, but I really don't consider him that special with the gimmick. A guy willing to take a mean bump? Sure, but then so were many others. The original TLC matches bar TLC III do little for me, fun for what they are but not something I can call 'great matches'. 

Yeah I mean if you're going to pick at Cena/Lesnar and essentially strip the match down to its barest parts, then you can do the same for virtually any match in history. It was a very simple match in terms of layout and execution but that's where the genius and brilliance is derived: their ability to work such a visually lasting match without having to work an absurd number of spots or deviate from a clear developing structure. It is hard to try and compare who shined brighter. I'd lean closer to Cena since I think his passion and fire in the comeback was so energetic it was impossible for the crowd to not become unglued and he sold the fear and uphill struggle as well we he possibly could. Not to mention his character and unpopular reception from the fans just added to the intrigue in how the match moved from a fun Cena beating into such a slaughter people began to rally behind how Cena could overcome the monster. That being said, Lesnar was a damn animal and put in one of the most convincing and stunning performances the company has seen. He got himself more over and created an even more magnifying presence in one night than most people would replicate in over a year. Plus his facial expression of shock and worry after the deadlift powerslam ala Backlund might have been my favourite part of the entire match. Was Austin at Wrestlemania 17 levels of magnificent.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*No Mercy 2000
The Rock(c) vs. Kurt Angle w/Stephanie McMahon Helmsley - ***1/2*

_Not a lot of substance to this one but it was fun and I enjoyed it. Run ins at the end from GAME and Rikishi made sense what with Steph getting hurt and Rikishi DOING IT FOR DA ROCK. Great moment with Kurt getting his first WWE title. An OK match that's fun to watch. _

*Triple H vs. Chris Benoit - ****1/4*

_I loved the story of this one and JR/King really complimented the story the guys were telling in the ring. For the first third of the match, it's HHH who is out-wrestling Benoit with some supreme leg work. Always fun to watch the GAME bust out some techy shit every now and then. The crowd are loving it too with Trips playing the clear favourite for a nice change of pace given the time period. Benoit finally starts to take control and works the arm along with hitting some legit German/back suplexes for his third of the match. The final third is some awesome back and forth from both guys. We get a run in from Stephanie that ultimately gets the win for HHH but Benoit still comes out looking like a beast. Brilliant stuff. _


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

King Kenny said:


> currently downloading 1997 raw


Where are you getting it from?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

torrentz.

im current;ly watching guerrero/malenko vs rey/regal 

:mark:


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^ Thanks mate 

I'll give my 2 cents on Brock/Cena - phenomenal match. MOTY for 2012 imo. Cena put on a near flawless performance, and by the end of the match he'd managed to almost fully turn the usually very anti-Cena Chicago crowd. 
On the other side of the coin, Brock looked like he was going to legit fuck Cena up. He was a beast from bell to bell. The match felt very real and dangerous and unlike anything we've seen from the WWE before. 

I have no problem with Cena winning, because he won exactly how you would expect anyone to win under those circumstances. He surprised Lesnar with the chair shot and Lesnar couldn't recover. He didn't expect Cena to pull that out of the bag so he wasn't prepared to deal with it. Perfect upset win for the underdog babyface.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVIII) - ★★★★1/2
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX) - ★★★★1/4
Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ★★★★1/2
Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania X) - ★★★★1/4
Money in the Bank I (Wrestlemania 21) - ★★★★½


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVIII) - ****3/4
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX) - ****1/4
Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV) - ****1/2
Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania X) - ****
Money in the Bank I (Wrestlemania 21) - ****1/2

I need to get back to my WM reviews. Gotta finish off WM 6.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs John Cena from Extreme Rules is probably the best WWF/WWE match since the GOAT HIAC with Undertaker and HBK. Perhaps the most captivating match in WWF/WWE history which is crazy to say since it's less than a single year old. Off the top of my head I can name three matches that compete with it in terms of being the best match since the GOAT ; Cena vs Punk (MITB 11), and a undisclosed Wrestlemania match. I'd have it REALLY high up there and quite honestly if it ages well with me it could fall into that upper echelon , the WWF/WWE top 3-5ish. Of course in order for me to place something that high I need to see it a bajillion times .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Brock is perfect except for the winner. Stupid decision that renders me unable to give it the full 5. In every other instance however, it's pretty much flawless.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Missed the Cena/Orton discussion but I just want to add: 

I don't think I've ever been prouder of an audience than when they completely shunned the "monumental staredown" at the Rumble. It was the perfect response to forced chemistry and bullshit booking.

Orton and Cena had zero chemistry outside of scripted moments (like Orton attacking Cena's dad). It's one of my pet peeves to watch two talents be forced together by management in a vein attempt to create something special. I was so thrilled when it bombed. :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Good luck CAL. Wrestlemania VI is the worst bar for like 2 matches out of 14 .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone have any opinions on HBK/Angle/Cena at Taboo Tuesday for the WWE Championship? It reminded me of WM20's Triple Threat and it's vastly underrated for such a good match it was. Maybe even MOTY for 2005.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think it even comes close to MOTY for 05, but that says so much about the quality of matches 05 gave us. Its good, around ***1/2 on last watch.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

***** for the Taboo Tuesday triple threat. Good but NOWHERE near MOTY for 05.

That's Batista/Triple H at Vengeance *******


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Cena-Brock was right up there with my favourite match of 2012, along with Undertaker-HHH. To this day, I can't decide which I like more but both are ****1/2 matches for me. Lesnar-Cena was just so different and both men made it look legit. The only problem with the match? The winner.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Big Z said:


> I need to get back to my WM reviews. Gotta finish off WM 6.


Got anywhere where I could read the first 5?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Desecrated said:


> Got anywhere where I could read the first 5?


I'll be posting them on my blog starting 11th March, one every day, so it ends up with WM 28 review going online on the day of WM 29, then WM 29 review getting written and posted the next day .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

VINTAGE CAL. Having fun with your shitty Wrestlemania VI yet ?

Wrestlemania IX is better than most of the "shit" Manias due to the commentary trio of Jim Ross/Bobby Heenan/Randy Savage alone. Bobby is on a level of his own in terms of color commentating, NOBODY touches the brain. Jerry Lawler's commentary work in the present day is so atrocious that it's beginning to tarnish his once great work honestly.

JUST FINISHED The Best of Raw and Smackdown 2012 on DVD and I'm going to drop some STARZ and a paragraph or two on my thoughts. 15-10 on my Mania list is incoming as well too, going to be a busy busy day here at Wrestlingforum.com ....IDGAF because I don't have class till another 8 hours so I got alot of time to kill. Perhaps I'll watch this lovely new Night of Champions 2010 DVD I have here, HMMMM...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Last few matches really saved WM 6 from being a total shit fest. On to WM 7 now!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> On to WM 7 now!


 Always been one of my favorites, Piper/Hart :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> VINTAGE CAL. Having fun with your shitty Wrestlemania VI yet ?
> 
> Wrestlemania IX is better than most of the "shit" Manias due to the commentary trio of Jim Ross/Bobby Heenan/Randy Savage alone. Bobby is on a level of his own in terms of color commentating, NOBODY touches the brain. Jerry Lawler's commentary work in the present day is so atrocious that it's beginning to tarnish his once great work honestly.
> 
> JUST FINISHED The Best of Raw and Smackdown 2012 on DVD and I'm going to drop some STARZ and a paragraph or two on my thoughts. 15-10 on my Mania list is incoming as well too, going to be a busy busy day here at Wrestlingforum.com ....IDGAF because I don't have class till another 8 hours so I got alot of time to kill. Perhaps I'll watch this lovely new Night of Champions 2010 DVD I have here, HMMMM...




I watched this last week. Pretty underrated ppv. Loved how Kane went over taker, 6 man challenge was good, and Bryan/Miz was a good affair. Probably mizs best match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Always been one of my favorites, Piper/Hart :mark:


That was WM 8 .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> That was WM 8 .


As soon as i posted i thought, hang on was that 7 or 8 lol  should have checked my VHS's lol, Still, 7 at least has Warrior/Savage : and i quite enjoyed Bulldog/Warlord tbh


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*KingOfKings Snowflakez : The Best of Raw and Smackdown 2012 (3 Disc Set)*


*Disc One*

Kane vs Zack Ryder (Falls Count Anywhere : RAW 1/23/12) : *** 1/4*

CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Raw 1/30/12) : **** 3/4*

Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No DQ SD 2/3/12) : *** 1/2*

Randy Orton/Sheamus/Big Show vs Daniel Bryan/Miz/Cody Rhodes (SD 9/3/12) : **** 

Santino Marella vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger (RAW 2/4/12) : ***

Randy Orton vs Kane (RAW 4/9/12) :* ** ¾*


*Disc Two*


CM Punk vs Mark Henry (No DQ ; RAW 4/16/12) : ******

Primo/Epico vs Kofi Kingston/R-Truth (RAW 4/30/12) :* * ½*

Randy Orton vs Sheamus (SD 5/18/12) : *****

The Great Khali vs Christian vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger (RAW 6/11/12) : **** ½*

Heath Slater vs Vader (RAW 6/11/12):* ½ **

Dolph Ziggler vs Sheamus (SD 6/22/12) : *****

Rey Mysterio vs Kane vs Alberto Del Rio vs Daniel Bryan (SD 7/27/12) : *****

Ryback vs Curt Hawkins/Tyler Reks (RAW 8/6/12) : *¼ **


*Disc Three*

Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (SD 8/31/12) : *** 1/2*

John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio (FCA ; RAW 9/3/12) : **** ½*

Randy Orton vs Damien Sandow (SD 9/7/12) : ****

Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston (RAW 9/24/12) : *** 3/4*

Beth Phoenix vs Natalya (SD 9/28/12) : *** ½*

Ryback vs Tensai (SD 9/28/12) : ***

Sheamus vs Damien Sandow (RAW 10/1/12) : *****

Team Hell No vs David Otunga/Alberto Del Rio (SD 10/5/12 ) : *** ½*

CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler (SD 10/5/12) : *** ¾*

Daniel Bryan vs Dolph ZIggler (RAW 10/22/12) : **** ¾*

John Cena/Ryback vs CM Punk/Dolph Ziggler (RAW 11/5/12) : *** ¾*

Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio (FCA ; SD 11/6/12) :* ** 1/4* 


*Thoughts*


2012 was a very up and down year for most people. If you were a fan of CM Punk like I am, you probably adored a good chunk of the main event scene. If you are indifferent to Punk or downright HATE him you probably hated 2012 and chances are you won't give this one a look. The question for this set is simple ; with only three discs instead of the four that were used in 2011 for the "Best Of" set, are the smaller confines stocked with more quality from a year that featured some knockout matches and promos?

Well first let me talk about the segments on this DVD. On last year's DVD we got one of the most legendary and iconic promos in WWE history in the CM Punk "pipe bomb" promo, and of course The Rock's return to the WWE Universe, so how on earth can it be topped in terms of segments ? Surprisingly they aren't too far off and quality mainly because on the 2011 DVD you essentially had those two awesome moments with the rest of the segments being shit like Miz-Riley and a whole other bunch of forgettable stuff. On this set you have of course BROCK's RETURN which is epic, Chris Jericho's highlight reel in where he trolls the fans by saying fuck all, Cena's fantastic pre Wrestlemania promo on The Rock which was one of the best promos I've ever seen him cut, the Cena-Lesnar brawl, Big Show CRUSHING the likes of Kofi, Truth, and Brodus Clay, Bryan and Kane's anger management, Punk and Cena's pre Night of Champions promo which was also awesome, and who could forget the Punk vs McMahon segment that wasn't really a match but a segment ? The segments on this DVD are AWESOME bar for a few shitty ones such as a random BAD Santino segment that was thankfully short, and the terrible Rock concert which I didn't care for. If you're a SEGMENTZ! fan then you should pick this up but if you're in this thread I doubt that's what you wanna hear in a review so, how are the matches ?

There are four genuinely GREAT matches on this set, those being Punk-Bryan, Bryan-Ziggler, Cena-Del Rio, Khali-Christian-Swagger-Ziggler and of course the best match on the set in Punk-Henry. These five matches were fantastic and I'd definitely watch again, but the thing that made me angry about this listing was the fact that they left my TV MOTY off this set for the second fucking year in a row (Henry-Punk 4/2/12)! Other than the big five on this DVD you have some other notably great work here from guys such as Sheamus who pretty much has the rest of the three star matches on this one, really showcasing his underrated skills as a worker in bouts like his one against Damien Sandow which is surprisingly overlooked. So pretty much the big five are the only great matches on the set with a trio of Sheamus matches rounding out the above average - good stuff.

The average stuff on this set mainly comes from brawls. I swear to god it feels like every single match on this is a Randy Orton/Kane/Del Rio No DQ match, as Orton has THREE No DQ matches on this with none of them being what I would call "great" and two of them essentially being average at best. Why were there so many Orton matches on this DVD ? I love Randy (not so much nowadays), but why does he have six matches on this set (with ONE being really good and the rest being decent-average-MEH) while CM Punk only has four matches with one of them being a tag match where he isn't showcased as much ? Why are there TWO Ryback squashes on this set, one I can understand because they want to showcase the guy, but TWO ? We can't put Punk-Henry from 4/2/12 on disc but we can have average brawls like Orton-Barrett, Kane-Ryder, etc on here ? What about the Kofi/Truth vs Primo/Epico tag which was far below average, why was that on a "Best Of" ? How about the BAD Santino vs Ziggler vs Swagger match, why was THAT on here ? 

I'm sorry, but the 2011 set blows this set out of the water when it comes to match quality. While I'd take Punk-Henry over anything on the 2011 set bar Cena-Mysterio, there's no excuse to not have matches like Cena-Bryan, Punk-Henry I, and other various matches on here while having a whole bunch of random TV matches that don't belong on a "Best Of" in the slightest sense of the word. On that set you had Mysterio-Cena, Punk-Ziggler, Orton-Rhodes, Orton-Christian X2, Miz-Morrison, the GOOD Miz-Cena, and the list goes on and on and on, so to have so many matches below the standards of a "best of" comp is unacceptable. If you love average brawling or the likes of Orton/Ziggler/Del Rio you'll probably be a fan though.

In short, no matter what gripes I have over what WASN'T on here, I genuinely always have fun with these "Best of" sets as it allows a smattering of great segments and TV matches to be released in DVD quality with a ton being exclusive to that DVD. I'm saying *BUY* because of the great segments and some great matches involving Punk/Bryan/Cena/Ziggler etc, but it's not a must buy. If you enjoyed the 2011 set don't expect anything better, and you'll probably enjoy this set as well. It isn't WWE's best effort at all here but to be honest it's damn near impossible to FAIL with one of these year end DVDs due to the content being so good at times.



*OVERALL RATING : 6.75/10*




​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well Kings, after reading that and knowing that I believe I liked Sheamus/Orton a little more than you did, plus the fact that the Blu Ray has the Sheamus/Bryan Street Fight, I think I'll have to pick this one up some time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

These are pretty much some of my favorite sets every year with the 2011 edition being one of my favorite DVDs of all time, no joke. Still blows my fucking mind how they manage to include ANOTHER Barrett vs Orton match on the Blu Ray version, do they just love torturing their fans with these mediocre matches ? I swear though, the NO DQ one on this DVD is probably their best match ever, that or the TLC 2011 tables match. The rest can go fuck off and die .

If you enjoy one of these "best of's" you'll enjoy them all though, legit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of the Sheamus vs Sandow matches made it? :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RYBACK VS TENSAI MADE IT TOO :lol.

Fuck this company, I just watched Big Show vs CM Punk from Night of Champions and it had so much fucking potential with some great psychology but they cut it short and pretty much BURIED Punk. HOW DID HE COME BACK FROM THIS ?

Atleast I get to watch the awesomeness of Miz-Bryan now, that should help ease the pain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The entire Show vs Punk feud was jipped for time in every bout. Luckily Summerslam managed to remain fun. Didn't mind NOC - only much too short.

Bryan vs Miz is stellar. The moment they had friction on NXT I wanted that match to happen. It was well worth the wait.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah it's great. Same feelings about Big Show vs Punk as well, they had a great story going there but they ended it so abruptly and anti-climatic that it renders the match to be average in my eyes. Show hits the best looking spear I've seen in a very long time on Punk during that match, which is a relief since I'm used to seeing that move TARNISHED by Edge and Christian for far too long. 

Can't wait to watch Undertaker-Kane :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Off of a springboard too. Awesome.

I need to watch NOC still. Maybe that will be my show of the day. I need to watch Smackdown from Friday as it is. Definitely before RAW. This is what happens when you go on a WCW & random Puro fix. Finlay vs Tajiri was totally worth it though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Miz vs. Bryan. :mark:

No joke, probably the 2nd best match of 2010.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Could be, could be. I know I'm a sucker for the Superstars set. Specifically Masters vs Dolph & McIntyre. _(Regal vs Goldust is kind of godly tbhayley. 6 minutes and all of that majesty.)_ Easy top 10 matches for 2010. Danielson vs Dolph Bragging Rights earns a spot on my list too. 

Oh wait, think 2nd place is a lock with Sheamus vs Morrison Ladder match actually. Yeah. That's sticking. Brilliant.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ah fuck, totally forgot Sheamus/JoMo. Well then Bryan/Miz is #3.  Never saw WWE vs. Nexus from Summerslam or Bryan/Dolph though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's like the highest **** 3/4* match for me, and probably the lowest anybody around here will ever rate it at. I don't know WHAT IT IS that causes me not to give it four and maybe I should but if I'm not feeling it then I'm not feeling it and there's nothing I can really do about it. It's fucking GREAT and AWESOME and all that shit though for sure.

It's a good show so far due to MIZ-DANIELSON. Dolph-Kofi is an above average match but I'll never get why people dig their chemistry due to Kofi being terrible.

Morrison/Sheamus would be third to Danielson/Ziggler   .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ah fuck, totally forgot Sheamus/JoMo. Well then Bryan/Miz is #3.  Never saw WWE vs. Nexus from Summerslam or Bryan/Dolph though.


(Y)

Elimination match is really good. Just watched it for the idk number of times. ***3/4. Fans bought into the Nexus angle so much. Always will be worth marking for. <3 that time.



KingOfKings said:


> It's like the highest **** 3/4* match for me, and probably the lowest anybody around here will ever rate it at. I don't know WHAT IT IS that causes me not to give it four and maybe I should but if I'm not feeling it then I'm not feeling it and there's nothing I can really do about it. It's fucking GREAT and AWESOME and all that shit though for sure.
> 
> It's a good show so far due to MIZ-DANIELSON. Dolph-Kofi is an above average match but I'll never get why people dig their chemistry due to Kofi being terrible.


100 matches and not a single one is really worth seeing. Their chemistry is meh. Kofi is bollocks.

Danielson/Miz is 4 stars for me, personally.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: @ the WM 7 opener.

:mark: only got December 09 ECW left to download. Gonna watch that Backlash ECW title match in a little while, no doubt when I get sick of WM 7 . Downloaded JD in HD too so I can get the other Christian/Swagger title match. Hope I can get all the 09 PPV's with ECW title matches on them in HD too. Shame I couldn't get the Superstars Christian/Finlay match in HD. Was thinking of making a best of comp.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bryan/Miz also nabs **** from me. Really came out of nowhere when I first watched it.

The best Ziggler/Kofi match is probably from Capital Punishment. It's like *** 1/4 though. DAT CHEMISTRY, RIGHT!?~


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> :mark: @ the WM 7 opener.
> 
> :mark: only got December 09 ECW left to download. Gonna watch that Backlash ECW title match in a little while, no doubt when I get sick of WM 7 . Downloaded JD in HD too so I can get the other Christian/Swagger title match. Hope I can get all the 09 PPV's with ECW title matches on them in HD too. Shame I couldn't get the Superstars Christian/Finlay match in HD. Was thinking of making a best of comp.


ROCKERS vs *NOT QUITE THE* FACES OF FEAR :mark:

You gonna give Christian vs Shelton from TLC a watch? 8*D



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Bryan/Miz also nabs **** from me. Really came out of nowhere when I first watched it.
> 
> The best Ziggler/Kofi match is probably from Capital Punishment. It's like *** 1/4 though. DAT CHEMISTRY, RIGHT!?~


Summer of Smackdown 2010. LETS BOOK THEM EVERY SINGLE WEEK.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shelton/Christian? Uhhh... well... I possibly should... but I... we'll see when I get to it .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck Kofi, the best thing I've seen his worthless ass drag out over the last year was the Over The Limit Tag with Truth, Dolph, and SWAGGER.

Even as a spot monkey I hate him due to literally every single one of his spots in the MITB matches look like the most choreographed shit I've ever seen. He serves no purpose and the only role I enjoy him in is when he's getting squashed by guys like Big Show. Hopefully Mark "Lamb of God" Henry (who has taken Sin Cara/Khali/Hornswoggle out) makes Kofi his next inductee into the hall of pain.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Only Kofi fan I know of is a straight edged Texan named Mike.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, he even said he wasn't much of a "fan". Only, he wouldn't mind if the guy received a push out of something fresh.

His words he told me. Probably b/c I couldn't fuxin believe it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best singles match I've seen from Kofi was vs. Christian on an episode of SmackDown. Idr the date but it was a tournament final to crown an IC Champion, but I'm pretty sure the guy got stripped like the day after. McIntyre return maybe?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Only Kofi fan I know of is a straight edged Texan named Mike.


If he wasn't so sober he's realise how bad Kofi is. Straight Edge Texan... it's an oxymoron if I ever heard one!

BULLDOG VS STEVE ROIDSTON. OR WARLORD. WHATEVER HE PREFERS. I have a WWF Annual from back in the day and the Bulldog page talked a lot about this feud and match and how Bulldog finally overcame the huge odds and shit, so I've always wanted to see the match lol. Oh shit, it's already over. LOL.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Well, he even said he wasn't much of a "fan". Only, he wouldn't mind if the guy received a push out of something fresh.
> 
> His words he told me. Probably b/c I couldn't fuxin believe it.


"Only Guy I know who doesn't think Kofi is a total waste of oxygen is a straight edged Texan named Mike" isn't as catchy :side:

Erm in order to keep this fairly relevant, Miz/Danielson is Miz' best match but he's in no way a passenger in the match and puts in arguably his best performance in controlling the pace and making an engaging and focused control segment which doesn't drag. Seriously watch a current WWE match for the most part and marvel at how much better Miz was controlling the middle that night than what we get atm.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Best singles match I've seen from Kofi was vs. Christian on an episode of SmackDown. Idr the date but it was a tournament final to crown an IC Champion, but I'm pretty sure the guy got stripped like the day after. McIntyre return maybe?


Yeah, Drew came back from being "fired" and was given back the Championship by decree of Vince.

Have to relive the match. (I'd be able to if I owned the Best of High Flyers set ahhhhhhh) Best Kofi Kingston match for me is vs Drew McIntyre from Fatal Four Way. Drew is a magical man. List of Kofi matches I find to be good I think I could only count with one hand at this rate. Singles matches that is. Luckily, he's had some good tags thanks to Bourne + opponents.



WOOLCOCK said:


> "Only Guy I know who doesn't think Kofi is a total waste of oxygen is a straight edged Texan named Mike" isn't as catchy :side:
> 
> Erm in order to keep this fairly relevant, Miz/Danielson is Miz' best match but he's in no way a passenger in the match and puts in arguably his best performance in controlling the pace and making an engaging and focused control segment which doesn't drag. Seriously watch a current WWE match for the most part and marvel at how much better Miz was controlling the middle that night than what we get atm.


Facts aren't meant to be catchy. :side:

Miz vs Cesaro from EC curried favor from me. Wouldn't call it a control segment for Miz during that one. Only he got his chance to actually work on Cesaro's knee which was a different route than the norm of a general WWE match these days.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I liked the dual limbwork and Cesaro's lack of knee pads proving to be a weakness was a nice way to ease into the Miz comeback. They could have a very good match if they were afforded good time and a chance to map out a clear match rather than having to work against the clock and have a rushed finish.

Cesaro needs to obliterate Miz' face and move on to some better workers now though. Have him hold the title until near June time and then have him drop it before winning MITB. He's by far the most impressive guy in the midcard and should be their pet project to build and legitimise by next year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rushed time or not, it was arguably the biggest surprise of the year for me. Didn't expect the match to be worked smart going in. Their first match was so generic I thought nothing come the rematch. Outside of the "ok, Cesaro match. Cool b/c he's terrific. Just win please."

Fingers crossed. Company is clearly high on him, only I wonder if he'll drop the championship soon and WWE will proceed to push him following. I'm hoping for a Miz _(ironic bit)_ type deal. Either win MITB as US champ or lose said championship prior to the immediate MITB win. All about keeping him credible. Gunning for the WM appearance & win.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Fingers crossed. Company is clearly high on him, only I wonder if he'll drop the championship soon and WWE will proceed to push him following. I'm hoping for a Miz _(ironic bit)_ type deal. Either win MITB as US champ or lose said championship prior to the immediate MITB win. All about keeping him credible. Gunning for the WM appearance & win.


Are you talking about Cesaro? Because if I recall correctly, didn't he lose it by submission to MOZ last week? Or was it a non-title match? Yeah, that's how unmemorable Raw is now!

And the talk of LESNAR/CENA a few pages ago has made me go and watch it once more. Found it in good quality so it should be fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Non-title match. Way to advance things in their program to keep another match open.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch Lesnar-Cena. It's one of the greatest matches in WWE history and I'm seriously leaning towards it being either man's best match (it's definitely BROCK's best with MITB 2011 being Cena's only competition). While nobody may come close to Taker in terms of having the most MOTY's in WWF/WWE history, Cena may get 5 or 6 by the time his career is over. He already has 3 in my book.

BTW, that Tag Team Turmoil match from NOC 10 is fuckin BOSS due to the end segment which features Bourne/Henry against Mcintyre/Rhodes. Now doesn't THAT sound awesome ? Well, as far as turmoil matches go it's pretty AWESOME.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

As far as gimmick matches go, Tag Team Turmoil is one of my least favourites. 

As for the Cesaro/Miz match up on Raw, that's another travesty of WWE programming recently. Not that the Miz won, but how many times have we seen the champions lose only to find out it's 'non-title'? Christ, Barrett has lost more times than he's won since becoming champ.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I love WWE's policy with mid-card heel champions.

They lose 99% of their TV matches only to, by some miracle, retain the title at the PPV (if they even get a PPV match). And how often are there actual title defenses? Well, US Title matches haven't been as extremely rare as the IC Title matches, but still...

... god damn, reminds me that they scrapped the IC Cup idea. Fuck 'em.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I were part of WWE Creative I'd be having a hard time doing anything with the IC belt when someone like Barrett is holding it 8*D.

WM 7 has been pretty awesome thus far. Watched every match up to this point (about to watch match 9), so no -1 points on the Cal Scale or anything. Some 0 points, but no DUD matches. On the CAL SCALE its nearly double the current highest rated WM event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM 7 is one of the best Mania's ever. It has a Tenryu match on it. Got to be GOAT level.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Wrestlemania VII is awesome. It's just such a FUN pay per view. Not many matches stick out as classics per se (Savage vs. Warrior is an incredible moment), but the crowd is hot and you can't go wrong with Gorilla and The Brain. 

Also there was an insane amount of matches on the show. Wasn't it around 14 or something? About 5-6 of those were squashes but fun nonetheless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, 14.

Undertaker debuts by squashing the moron Jimmy Snuka. :mark:

Another good tag match is Hart Foundation vs Nasty Boys. The hot crowd as left SILENT from the shock of the upset. I adore said moment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You're forgetting about the bigger picture. The WWE scrapped the Intercontinental Cup simply because it was more efficient for them to put Barrett in a feud with Bo Dallas that could elevate Wade to the next level. You Barrett marks and your refusal to believe the WWE has HUGE plans for him :lol.

Just checked my Wrestlemania VII ratings and it turns out that I didn't have a single DUD in the first 9 matches either ; just three in the last five matches .

Both tags will be found in my honorable mentions before I reveal my top five Mania matches ever, which reminds me...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FUN is definitely a word I'd use to describe this show so far. Bossman/Perfect is tremendous fun. Shame this event didn't make it to the massive stadium they originally wanted it to be in. A record breaking crowd, recording breaking PPV numbers (they said on commentary during the show that this got the most PPV orders from any PPV ever or something), AND these matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stupid people taking Slaughter's gimmick too seriously. Ruined the fun of seeing that event in the original stadium. It worked out fine, sure. The appearance of such an event on a huge stage would have been unreal. That's the drawback.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

So many feuds at this time as well.

Bulldog-Warlord
Roberts-Martel
Warrior-Savage
Bossman-Perfect
Virgil-Dibiase
Hogan-Slaughter

Proof be that you don't need a championship belt to be involved in a storyline. WWE 2013 TAKE FUCKING NOTE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Watch Lesnar-Cena. It's one of the greatest matches in WWE history and I'm seriously leaning towards it being either man's best match (it's definitely BROCK's best with MITB 2011 being Cena's only competition). While nobody may come close to Taker in terms of having the most MOTY's in WWF/WWE history, Cena may get 5 or 6 by the time his career is over. He already has 3 in my book.


What's the third one? I already know Lesnar and MITB 2011.

So I just got done with the whole thing including Cena's promo. My thoughts are being broken down differently this time around.

- BROCK's performance was simply perfect. The way he toys around with Cena and all the other things he does is just amazing. From licking Cena's blood on his hands to wrapping his legs with the steel chain and teasing to use the steel chain only to toss it away - it just don't get any better than this!

- Cena barely gets in any offense and simply shows how to perform like an underdog. People complain about how he's THE odds at all times but the performance by both men was so good here that crowd actually starts to support Cena. He crawls around and sells the wounds to perfection, truly looking helpless. And his screaming when getting hit also cracks me up every time.

- Going back to BROCK's monstrous performance, him losing makes more sense now that I look at it. He had Cena down with the F5 for several seconds which renders this victory unclean and he started getting cocky and overconfident which cost him the match. Plus I love the extra touch when he completely no-sold his hurt knee and made it look it gave him even more energy. Don't know who else noticed it but he almost did the cut-throat taunt when he brought in the steel steps then for some reason stopped it midway. Wish he had done it, though! Would only add more to his character.

- After the overconfident BROCK, Cena takes the opportunity to use the steel chain to kill BROCK's momentum which gives him the opening needed to hit the FU on the steel steps and get a fluke victory. That said, the post-match promo was unnecessary. Because of two reasons. One, he should've been carried out on a stretcher to sell the beatdown. Two, because he didn't even take any damn time off to start with!

- My only issue that remains is the stupid "DOCTORS MUST CHECK ON HIM!" crap. When Eddie bled ten times the amount, no doctors came out mid-match but they do that just because of a little wound on Cena's head? My other issue is still Cena winning. It killed BROCK's momentum despite doing what he said he was gonna do and Cena just went back to being the same ol' shit.

- Lastly, I have to mention ROLLING GERMANS! And Lesnar did it from the left-hand side which only brings one thing to my mind. BENOIT! :mark:

Instead of the old 4 and a half, I'm giving it ★★★★¾ this time around. The people who strip this down to the basic "Cena gets destroyed then comes back with two moves" are really missing what makes a good match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I actually kinda really like Bulldog-Warlord and Roberts-Martel, PSYCHOLOGY BABY! .

I thought the stoppages did nothing but add to the match honestly. Here's a guy who spit in the face of the business and he's here rendering the face of the company helpless to the point that he needs a referee on top of his lifeless body to alleviate the damage caused by the larger than life BEAST of a man that is Brock Lesnar.

HE was the fucking weapon in that match. Brock doesn't directly use a weapon in the match, only to tie Cena around the post rendering him even more helpless. Every piece of the story fits so well next to one another that it blows my mind how somebody who has been away from the business for EIGHT YEARS comes back to arguably the greatest match of the last 15 years.

Fucking shits ALL over HBK's comeback that everybody jizzes about. The ROID wishes he had the talent to do what BROCK did too.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Warlord resembled a child's drawing of Goldberg. Plus, it was his only good match as a singles wrestler that I recall.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Warlord always looks like Steve Austin on roids to me .

ROMA just got squashed by LOD. GOAT WM.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Warlord always looks like Steve Austin on roids to me .
> 
> ROMA just got squashed by LOD. GOAT WM.


LOL I just remembered. In an old issue of Power Slam from around 2000, some poor bastard writes in the Letters section 'Didn't Steve Austin wrestle in the early 90s as The Warlord?'

...wasn't you was it?? 

:HHH2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I thought the stoppages did nothing but add to the match honestly. Here's a guy who spit in the face of the business and he's here rendering the face of the company helpless to the point that he needs a referee on top of his lifeless body to alleviate the damage caused by the larger than life BEAST of a man that is Brock Lesnar.
> 
> HE was the fucking weapon in that match. Brock doesn't directly use a weapon in the match, only to tie Cena around the post rendering him even more helpless. Every piece of the story fits so well next to one another that it blows my mind how somebody who has been away from the business for EIGHT YEARS comes back to arguably the greatest match of the last 15 years.
> 
> Fucking shits ALL over HBK's comeback that everybody jizzes about. The ROID wishes he had the talent to do what BROCK did too.


To me they screamed nothing more than PG bullshit because that clearly was their intentions. They pulled the same crap in the Ironman match with Orton and Cena until they grew a set and said "fuck it, just move on".

And yeah, Cena's comeback here beats all of HBK's overrated "babyface performances". With all due respect to HBK, a lot of things involving him are SO FUCKING OVERRATED and their "epicness" is forced to the fullest.

Also liked how Cena sold the left arm injury after the Kimura for the entire night rather than just forget about it the next minute.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> To me they screamed nothing more than PG bullshit because that clearly was their intentions. They pulled the same crap in the Ironman match with Orton and Cena until they grew a set and said "fuck it, just move on".
> 
> And yeah, Cena's comeback here beats all of HBK's overrated "babyface performances". With all due respect to HBK, a lot of things involving him are SO FUCKING OVERRATED and their "epicness" is forced to the fullest.
> 
> Also liked how Cena sold the left arm injury after the Kimura for the entire night rather than just forget about it the next minute.




Michaels/HHH SS 02 > Cena/Brock ER 12. 

A guy coming off a legite back injury putting on a terrific match with HHH (their best IMO). Both guys were fantastic in this. Also HHH was way more devious than lesnar was here. Directly after the match you see the intensity in HHH just staring at HBK and bashing him with that sledgehammer.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I "LOVE" how Cena beats BROCK and then proceeds to job to Johnny Ace at the very next PPV. Why didn't he just lose like every PPV match if he was just going to have his big redemption storyline anyways ? Makes absolutely no sense for him to beat BROCK because if BROCK had to win that match and crush Trips than he'd somehow look even more badass than he does right now. I don't think the loss hurt him THAT BAD, but he should have won his first match back, period.

WWE and their fucked up booking ; Cena should have beaten The Rock so we never have to see that shitty feud again, then the next night when Cena comes out with that troll-like Cena face on, BROCK's music hits and all hell breaks loose resulting in Cena getting mauled and beaten @ Extreme Rules.

The Roid fucking ruins everything.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT... HHH was more devious than BROCK LESNAR ; the same guy who licked blood off of his gloves and wrecked the face of the company in every way imaginable ? BROCK managed to make seemingly the most hated man in Chicago a hero that night, a feat that nobody else in that fucking company, not even CM Punk would be able to do.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena/Lesnar is so far ahead of HHH/HBK Summerslam '02 it isn't even funny. Cena's babyface performance is better, Lesnar's heel performance and emoting is better, the selling, structure and ability to generate a sense of authentic violence without the need for an excessive amount of props is far greater in Lesnar/Cena etc. Christ I can't even think what HHH/HBK does better. Its a mess of a match with a poor structure, limited selling which diminishes the tension and emotion and which suffers from the HHH/HBK formula of trying to force an epic. Raw in San Antonio & Taboo Tuesday '04 are the only matches where they worked a more simpler and basic style and who would have guessed, those two were comfortably their best encounters.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I "LOVE" how Cena beats BROCK and then proceeds to job to Johnny Ace at the very next PPV. Why didn't he just lose like every PPV match if he was just going to have his big redemption storyline anyways ? Makes absolutely no sense for him to beat BROCK because if BROCK had to win that match and crush Trips than he'd somehow look even more badass than he does right now. I don't think the loss hurt him THAT BAD, but he should have won his first match back, period.
> 
> WWE and their fucked up booking ; Cena should have beaten The Rock so we never have to see that shitty feud again, then the next night when Cena comes out with that troll-like Cena face on, BROCK's music hits and all hell breaks loose resulting in Cena getting mauled and beaten @ Extreme Rules.
> 
> ...




Well punk is only from Chicago........ 

Plus Brock= better heel than punk. I know a lot of people who don't care for Brock anymore. He's just there for his payday and that pisses some wrestling fans off. The atmosphere was questionable that night for a Chicago crowd, trust me I was there. I've attended every wrestling show in Chicago for over 8 + years now. Not saying it was a bad crowd, but for Chicago it was kinda dull.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena is the fucking man. John Boy grows on me more and more every day as a worker, just when I think he's reached his pinnacle he continues to astound me. After MITB 11 I said "Yep, there we go, Cena has just peaked from a storytelling perspective and there's nowhere to go from here", only for him to surpass that performance (arguably) NINE FUCKING MONTHS LATER. 

This is seriously one of the most mind blowing cases of a worker ever. If he continues on this pace he'll be in the GOAT match within the next three years .


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena is the fucking man. John Boy grows on me more and more every day as a worker, just when I think he's reached his pinnacle he continues to astound me. After MITB 11 I said "Yep, there we go, Cena has just peaked from a storytelling perspective and there's nowhere to go from here", only for him to surpass that performance (arguably) NINE FUCKING MONTHS LATER.
> 
> This is seriously one of the most mind blowing cases of a worker ever. If he continues on this pace he'll be in the GOAT match within the next three years .




Agree with you on this. Cena is so underrated in the iwc it's ridiculous. I've NEVER seen a more hated man than cena on here


As for the GOAT match. Cena/Taker will be truly amazing if it happens at a wrestlemania


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Too bad Cena's character is one of the worst tv persona's ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah his character is terrible, no denying that. 

Although I would take Cena over The Roid any day of the week (due to The Roid's utter incompetence to do anything productive whether it be a match or an interview, he just sucks), Cena's act has been stale since late 2005 for me. It's actually ridiculous how long he's stayed on top despite BARELY evolving as a character during that time span, which is the opposite of someone like The Undertaker or CM Punk.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

John Cena is vastly underrated in my opinion, I think it has gotten a tad better over the past few years, but their are still people that are like "Cena sux lolz" which is not the case anymore. Cena to me has already surpassed The Rock and within the next year or two, he can pass Hogan/Austin as the WWE's GOAT.

HATERS GONNA HATE :cena3


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I just can't stand the "cena sucks" or "you can't wrestle" chant. SO FUCKING ANNOYING. Yea he really sucks lmao. Instead of chanting that why don't they chant his fucking opponents name??


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't think it's a coincidence that Cena's two best matches have came in Chicago, he excels in atmosphere's like that. I'd throw **** at Cena/HHH from Wrestlemania XXII and I think the Falls Count Anywhere against Del Rio from last year was a very good TV match. Del Rio/Cena have had some really good matches now that I think about it, Vengeance 2011 was awesome.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena thrives in hostile atmospheres. Think MITB '11 and One Night Stand '06. Literally the whole crowd against Cena and he puts on great matches. Imagine if he got that kind of heat at every event and was a heel? It would be the greatest heat and perhaps greatest heel of all time. (Well, apart from HHH)

:jpl


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Cena thrives in hostile atmospheres. Think MITB '11 and One Night Stand '06. Literally the whole crowd against Cena and he puts on great matches. Imagine if he got that kind of heat at every event and was a heel? It would be the greatest heat and perhaps greatest heel of all time. (Well, apart from HHH)
> 
> :jpl




If cena will ever turn heel he'll still get the same reaction he does now. Mixed. Because when he turns heel kids won't like him, but the older audience will start to cheer him. I know I will be


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Cena thrives in hostile atmospheres. Think MITB '11 and One Night Stand '06. Literally the whole crowd against Cena and he puts on great matches. Imagine if he got that kind of heat at every event and was a heel? It would be the greatest heat and perhaps greatest heel of all time. (*Well, apart from HHH)
> 
> :jpl*


DAMN STRAIGHT SKIPPY.

Is everybody ready for a potential GAME return tonight ? I know I'm breaking out my shovel for the occasion !

:jpl


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Cena is currently in the front running for worst wrestler of the year. Completely unbearable in his promos topped off with buried alive matches with Ziggler.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TRIPLE H to get his arm BORKED for the TRIPLE time tonight. Then..... GONG. I'd mark.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Michaels/HHH SS 02 > Cena/Brock ER 12.
> 
> A guy coming off a legite back injury putting on a terrific match with HHH (their best IMO). Both guys were fantastic in this. Also HHH was way more devious than lesnar was here. Directly after the match you see the intensity in HHH just staring at HBK and bashing him with that sledgehammer.


Fuck yeah. Still to this day, 11 years later blown away by the performance from a guy who was gone for 4.5 years with multiple herniated discs in his back and another disc completely smashed to pieces. In terms of God given, natural talent, the MJ of wrestling. :agree: 

:hbk2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> TRIPLE H to get his arm BORKED for the TRIPLE time tonight. Then..... GONG. I'd mark.


:mark: Fuck yes, but no, it's...........................HHH to battle Lesnar...................again


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sometimes it really is hard for me these days to like Cena even as a worker because his character makes me wanna punch dogs, and I would NEVER want to hurt a poor doggie  (my dog needs surgery atm hence the dog analogy). But fuck, Cena just KILLS any kind of anticipation or excitment in anything he's involved in, and honestly atm he needs to be GREAT for me to recognise him as good. Just being good will leave me thinking he barely had a decent performance. I don't know if this makes sense or not. I'm in rather a lot of pain. My back problems have finally gone and my old knee injury had decided to return. So I'm not thinking too straight (because I'm having plenty of alcohol to counteract the pain, as well as other things I need the alcohol for atm. NOT AN ALCOHOLIC DAMMIT).

What was I talking about? Oh yeah, Chavo Guerrero Jr sucks.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

zep81 said:


> :mark: Fuck yes, but no, it's...........................HHH to battle Lesnar...................again


Fuck it. I don't even care any more. If it happens, it happens. I'm still going to order the show. At the end of the day it's two of my all time favourites in another match together. I can live with it even if it wouldn't be my first choice.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I want it to be a shovel on a poll match between Brock and Trips.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Wig on a pole match between Trips and Taker would be cool.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

If they go with HHH/Brock I'll only be interested if heyman and McMahon are in their corners and whoever wins takes control of the company.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

xdoomsayerx said:


> If they go with HHH/Brock I'll only be interested if heyman and McMahon are in their corners and whoever wins takes control of the company.


If Brock won would we finally get Monday Night Raw STARRING BROCK LESNAR? :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Big Z said:


> If Brock won would we finally get Monday Night Raw STARRING BROCK LESNAR? :mark:




YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Monday Night Raw STARRING BROCK LESNAR ON CONTRACTUALLY AGREED DATES ONLY!!!! 

:brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Fuck it. I don't even care any more. If it happens, it happens. I'm still going to order the show. At the end of the day it's two of my all time favourites in another match together. I can live with it even if it wouldn't be my first choice.


If they change it up for the rematch in relation to the SS match then that would be ok with me (after ive accepted we are getting the rematch and i have no choice lol).

Not saying there is anything wrong per se about the SS match, but i kinda wanna see a different approach this time i think.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If it happens I think there will be a gimmick and I think they'll definitely take a different approach to what the did the SS match. If they go out there with the intentions of murdering each other then I have no problem with that at all lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If we get a SS rematch, it needs to be at least No DQ so Trips can maybe start the match by attacking Lesnar with a chair or something so he can even the odds asap so it doesn't turn into SS 1.5 match with Lesnar dominating completely and HHH trying desperately to fight back. Trips using a weapon is really the only way he can believably gain a real advantage.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH trying to use the sledgehammer only for Lesnar to block it and break it over his leg or something would be a :mark: spot. Agreed that they need to up the stakes for a rematch. We're almost there now. Only a few more hours, morning for me, and we'll finally know what the fuck is happening....or not and they troll us again. 

:vince3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll find out 2morrow afternoon after I download and watch it . UNDERTAKER better fucking show up. I need something to get me excited for WM dammit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah all this talk and we get.........................fuck all lol.

Lesnar is at least scheduled to appear so we'll get something at least FFS!!!


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So, I was trying to find the 2-3 pages in the thread where GOAT tag matches were being discussed, most preferably for *WOOLCOCK's* post, so can someone help me out to find that, thanks in advance!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tanner1495 said:


> So, I was trying to find the 2-3 pages in the thread where GOAT tag matches were being discussed, most preferably for *WOOLCOCK's* post, so can someone help me out to find that, thanks in advance!





WOOLCOCK said:


> Best tag matches?
> 
> Morton & Gilbert vs Fuchi & Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) (9/4/81)
> Mantell & King Cobra vs Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar (7/19/82)
> ...


I bookmarked it


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Holy shit thank you!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I wasn't under the influence, I could probably double that list too. WC only scratched the surface of great tags with that post. Mabybe he's more sober though and couple help you if he's around .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Lesnar vs Cena is **** 3/4

Would have been a 5 star if the ending was better :lol


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Warlord resembled a child's drawing of Goldberg.


:lmao hahahahahaha


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Lesnar vs Cena is **** 3/4
> 
> Would have been a 5 star if the ending was better :lol


When Cena did that speech at the end, i bet Brock was chomping at the bit and saying "fuck that twat, he just dont learn does he"  and wanting to storm back to the ring and F5 him about a zillion times...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'll link you to near enough all of those matches as well if need be. There are a ton more but some were matches I hadn't seen in forever or had a poor memory on so didn't want to put them on without being certain. I'd have included the 2/22/92 8 man tag and the 2/7/00 Dallas Raw 10 man tag but well, I only wanted to put the 6/8/84 6 man from Mid South on my list in terms of non traditional tags and by the end I couldn't be bothered editing  

Eaton/Koko vs Mantell/Cobra 7/19/82 isn't online anymore though. I checked ages back when posting a list of Memphis matches for someone in here and the old link had been taken down.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'll link you to near enough all of those matches as well if need be. There are a ton more but some were matches I hadn't seen in forever or had a poor memory on so didn't want to put them on without being certain. I'd have included the 2/22/92 8 man tag and the 2/7/00 Dallas Raw 10 man tag but well, I only wanted to put the 6/8/84 6 man from Mid South on my list in terms of non traditional tags and by the end I couldn't be bothered editing
> 
> Eaton/Koko vs Mantell/Cobra 7/19/82 isn't online anymore though. I checked ages back when posting a list of Memphis matches for someone in here and the old link had been taken down.


Holy shit if you did that for me it would be fantastic, this Top 1000 may not take as long as I thought.

Estimated Date Done: 12/31/2099


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Would you guys say *The Best of Clash of the Champions *is a worth a buy if I already own all of Flair, Austin, & Steamboat's sets? Blu Ray extras look even better. Starz would be appreciated as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rockers Vs Rougeaous (splelling) from... some date is fucking great as fuck (like, ****+ kinda great). If the one I'm thinking of isn't online I can rip and upload it. Got plenty of Rockers stuff already on my Daily Motion account lol (aka their entire series with the Brainbusters) www.dailymotion.com/WrestlingElite


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> Holy shit if you did that for me it would be fantastic, this Top 1000 may not take as long as I thought.


Here we go, couldn't find them all:



> Morton & Gilbert vs Fuchi & Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) (9/4/81) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ILpoJzDg8c
> 
> Steamboat & Youngblood vs Slaughter & Kernodle (3/12/83):
> 
> ...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trust me when I tell you this ; if you own all of those sets, your best bet is to stay the fuck away from that clash of the champions set. If you own any of the major sets , that DVD is fucking garbage and not worth your time or money. I reviewed EVERY SINGLE MATCH ON THAT SET IN DETAIL once upon a time and I think I gave the DVD a 5.5 due to the best matches being repeats and the absence of matches such as DUSTIN VS FUCKING VADER. FUCK THIS COMPANY, why must they bury the greatness of WCW and give us the shit that they do.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 7 is awesome. That is all.

More than double on the CAL SCALE from the next best WM event so far (WM III). Can't wait for WM 8 :mark:.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania VIII DESTROYS everything that comes before it I'm pretty sure. Think it scored a 20 on the official CAL SCALE . well... Unofficial, because I'm not cal  . Then again, I have no fucking clue because I'm in class at the moment.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> WM 7 is awesome. That is all.
> 
> More than double on the CAL SCALE from the next best WM event so far (WM III). Can't wait for WM 8 :mark:.


One reason why ill have to someday get the WM Vol II set, as im sure the TC version of VII is cut (i know Savage/Warior is full, probably Hogan too - havnt watched the VHS in a looooong time), but VIII is uncut im pretty sure (as VII was 4 hours in total i believe)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WMVIII is the shit, IMO. Still kinda surprised they kinda buried it on the "True Story of Wrestlemania" documentary.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> WMVIII is the shit, IMO. Still kinda surprised they kinda buried it on the "True Story of Wrestlemania" documentary.


THIS. They make out that the whole show was a load of crap just because the planned Hogan/Flair match never happened. It worked out for the best imo, as we get an all-time classic in Flair/Savage, as well as a fun Hogan/Sid with Warrior returning at the end.

On top of that we have Piper/Hart and that's three memorable matches. So I'm not complaining at all.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/BROCK brawl w/BLOOD :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

**** for Punk/Cena. Ugly hurricanrana, but damn that match was great.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^agreed. Punk/Cena is the MOTY. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cena didn't sell a single move in that match. If selling isn't a part of it, then yes, great match.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Am I the only one who didn't feel Punk/Cena?

It's a match we've seen a dozen times from them. We all KNEW the outcome of the match will takes away anything from it for me as well as the fact that Cena didn't sell all match. False finishes doesn't make a match a MOTY contender, it makes a match pathetic if you ask me, sure it's okay in the BIG BIG matches, but it happens far too often when one of Punk or Cena are in the match and it becomes tedious and boring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That match was EPIC.

Looking forward to not buying Wrestlemania and watching it not live up to what Vince thinks it's going to be.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena/punk was awesome tonight. Too bad we didn't see the whole thing..... Fucking commercials. 

****	for me. Best tv match in quite sometime


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pretty good match between Punk and Cena. This time the right man also won so all is right!

★★★¾ for now. Will rewatch when I get a chance later this week. Cena doing the Crossface, Hurricanrana (even if he didn't fully rotate) and the Powerbomb = :mark:. And Punk did an excellent piledriver, credit to him. It did start off rather slow with too many restholds, though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena/Punk probably TV MOTY so far. It's not got much to compete against but it was still really entertaining. Knowing Cena was winning did take a bit away from it but still very good. Punk's Piledriver was sweet.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> Am I the only one who didn't feel Punk/Cena?
> 
> It's a match we've seen a dozen times from them. We all KNEW the outcome of the match will takes away anything from it for me as well as the fact that Cena didn't sell all match. False finishes doesn't make a match a MOTY contender, it makes a match pathetic if you ask me, sure it's okay in the BIG BIG matches, but it happens far too often when one of Punk or Cena are in the match and it becomes tedious and boring.


Pretty much any match today that features a few false finishes is considered amazing. Forget selling and psychology. I did enjoy the piledriver, just because I can't even remember the last time it was done on WWE TV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ALL ABOARD THE CENA EXPRESS. #TEAMCENA2012 #HustleLoyaltyRespect .

:cena :cena2 :cena3 :cena4


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Was the piledriver officially banned in WWE? Or does no one use it?

Would have loved Punk to pull out the ol' Shane Helms Vertebreaker :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why the fuck couldn't that have been the Wrestlemania main event? What a match... Too bad Mania's gonna blow. Fuckin Rock...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Poor Punk. World champ for 430-something days, not in the main event of WM. And then he'll most likely get the honor of having a feud with Cena after WM and losing...alot. :lol


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Wasn't a fan of Raw as a whole but Cena vs. Punk was the best thing about it. TV Match of the year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Loved how they went the extra mile and busted out new/different stuff to try to beat each other. Cena's rana looked like shit but whatever, it was still cool to see, and the powerbomb, piledriver and Crossface were great. Aside from one awkward moment during the middle I thought it was awesome and a good example of how to work WWE's main event style. It doesn't compare to the show they put on at MitB '11 but it's just a notch below their Summerslam and Night of Champions matches.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Punk v Cena 

Gets the full **** minus 1 for those commercials and the shaky start, add 1 for that pile driver my god that was dirty

They did some things we've seen and some we haven't predictability doesn't hurt the quality of the match for me like it does for some... Def does enough to get all four


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Why the fuck couldn't that have been the Wrestlemania main event? What a match... Too bad Mania's gonna blow. Fuckin Rock...


Agreed. Their chemistry with each other is just insane. Would've been awesome to see these two go at it on a bigger stage.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Best Raw crowd for a while too. Plus, refreshing to see a Raw match get a good half an hour. Usually Raw matches are pretty short, even the main events.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Damn I hate that I live in Australia, I gotta wait 24 hours till I can see the Epicness of Cena vs Punk.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm giving that Cena-Punk match a ****1/2, really. These two ALWAYS bring the best out of each other and Cena AND Punk both busted out new stuff. Didn't see Cena perform a powerbomb in a long time and Cena's hurricanrana, while ugly, I still give him props for. Punk and the piledriver... I marked. Out of nowhere and perfectly executed it. The crowd was off the hook and the false finishes were great. I'm not even mad that Cena won, but it's crazy how WWE gave away a match like that on FREE TV. Unreal.

Matches like that are inspiration for myself to pursue wrestling in the very near future when I hit 20, so matches like these are ones I never forget and it's also a big reason I'm giving it a slightly higher rating in here.

Definitely TV match of the year and match of the year in general so far this year, for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Feel bad for those who DVRed the show, since they went wayyy over.  REMATCH-A-MANIA, heeeeeere we come!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Cena/Punk once again showing that they should've main-event WrestleMania 27, not that piece of filth jobber Miz fpalm

Cena/Punk have TREMENDOUS chemistry. Would I be exaggerating if I were to call their chemistry based on matches alone one of the GOAT?


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

you have to take a more lenient stance on selling with a cena match or you will probably hate every match he's in because that's his fucking gimmick in a nutshell...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Roid ruins fucking EVERYTHING.

Cena-Punk in the Wrestlemania main event ? Ruined.
The NEXUS having a payoff match against Cena at Wrestlemania instead of TLC ? Ruined.
ALL LONG TERM STORYLINES ? RUINED.

I can't wait for the walking, breathing cancer to all that is GOOD about wrestling in Dwayne Johnson retires VERY, VERY SOON.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

They have amazing chemistry, no doubt about it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Punter said:


> Cena/Punk once again showing that they should've main-event WrestleMania 27, not that piece of filth jobber Miz fpalm
> 
> Cena/Punk have TREMENDOUS chemistry. Would I be exaggerating if I were to call their chemistry based on matches alone one of the GOAT?


Not at all, man. I seriously think the lowest I've ever rated ANY of their matches that I've seen that went over 5 minutes was *** 1/4, and that was when Punk was in the New Nexus. All of their PPV encounters have been **** + and all they seem to do is make magic. This is like the Austin/Rock of the current generation.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Tim Legend said:


> you have to take a more lenient stance on selling with a cena match or you will probably hate every match he's in because that's his fucking gimmick in a nutshell...


Not me. If someone else doesn't sell a lick, they get reamed. No one gets special treatment in that department. Awful match because of the lack of selling. And the false finishes are played out at this point. Just shows that they've run out of ideas.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> The Roid ruins fucking EVERYTHING.
> 
> Cena-Punk in the Wrestlemania main event ? Ruined.
> The NEXUS having a payoff match against Cena at Wrestlemania instead of TLC ? Ruined.
> ...


Yeah because when Rock leaves WWE are going to get their shit straight :lol


Oh, and I echo the MOTYC sentiments for Cena/Punk tonight. That shit was awesome and just may be better than the WrestleMania main event. It is certainly better than both Rock/Punk matches.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Not at all, man. I seriously think the lowest I've ever rated ANY of their matches that I've seen that went over 5 minutes was *** 1/4, and that was when Punk was in the New Nexus. All of their PPV encounters have been **** + and all they seem to do is make magic. This is like the Austin/Rock of the current generation.


I can't wait for the eventual WWE's Greatest Rivalries: Punk vs. Cena DVD to come out :mark:

Seriously, everything they do together is GOLD. On the mic, and ESPECIALLY in the ring. They really do bring the best out of each other. John Cena's greatest opponent is CM Punk, bar none. Sorry Edge I love you, and you were good with Cena, but Punk is just better


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They would have main evented a Wrestlemania if it hadn't have been for The Roid. That fact alone makes me want to spontaneously combust into flames. Punk and Taker will steal the fucking show I'm sure, but the feud will have NO HEAT due to Punk being a jobber to the stars for the last month. Pretty sure the only people he has beaten lately are Brodus Clay and Jobbercho :lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LOL. Biggest difference with Cena/Edge is when they kept facing each other, I didn't wanna see it. It was like "tonight on RAW, an old rivalry renewed in John Cena vs. Edge" FUCK, AGAIN!? Opposite goes with Punk.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So Wrestlemania has taken shape. Rock/Cena II, HHH/Lesnar II, Punk/Taker and Swagger/Del Rio. Not the best card on paper but I'm at least somewhat looking forward to it after tonight. The Brock/Trips brawl tonight brought out the inner mark in me and I'm looking forward to their re-match. I don't expect many people to be excited about it but the intensity and blood tonight got my hyped for a potential gimmick match between the two. Bryan/Kane and Cesaro/Miz should be solid under-card matches, throw in The Shield's match and the card has potential on paper. Not a dream Mania by any means but it should be a good show.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Not me. If someone else doesn't sell a lick, they get reamed. No one gets special treatment in that department. Awful match because of the lack of selling. And the false finishes are played out at this point. Just shows that they've run out of ideas.




Based on that merit, every Ziggler match must be MOTY since that's all he does...

I can agree its annoying to see a guy no sell everything but calling it terrible and overlooking all the other good things they did because one aspect of a match isn't to your liking is pretty shitty... Oh well 

I figured not everyone would love it


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I think the reason Cena and Punk work so well as enemies is that they're polar opposites, yet similar in so many ways

Indie legend vs Company man

Agile vs Powerlifter

Fringe vs Mainstream

Both hard workers, with surely truckloads of respect for each other


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm seriously scratching my head on some things though. *WHY* would we get Taker/Punk? Punk has jobbed 3 times in a row now, and Taker didn't show tonight. There can't be that many people out there (casual fans or the hardcore ones) that could truly believe Punk would have ANY chance at all of ending the streak after seeing the way he's been booked.... 

Unless Punk ends the streak and proclaims he's GOD. unk4

WHAT THE HELL IS PUNK GONNA DO!?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punter said:


> Cena/Punk once again showing that they should've main-event WrestleMania 27, not that piece of filth jobber Miz fpalm
> 
> Cena/Punk have TREMENDOUS chemistry. Would I be exaggerating if I were to call their chemistry based on matches alone one of the GOAT?


Wrestlemania 27 main event should have been Cena vs Orton. Punk had no momentum at all so it would've made no sense.

Shame they never did it as the original plan was to turn Cena heel in Nexus then have him face Orton at Mania.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Tim Legend said:


> Based on that merit, every Ziggler match must be MOTY since that's all he does...
> 
> I can agree its annoying to see a guy no sell everything but calling it terrible and overlooking all the other good things they did because one aspect of a match isn't to your liking is pretty shitty... Oh well
> 
> I figured not everyone would love it


What is "all the other good things", though? The first half of the match was a bunch of nothing with two commercials breaks. Then, the 2nd half of the match they did a number of false finishes and kicked out of eachother finishes. That's pretty much all it was. I liked the piledriver (as I gave them credit for), Cena breaking out a powerbomb was a sight, as was the hurricarana. But it was basically just a bunch of false finishes, which has become the WWE signature the past few years.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm seriously scratching my head on some things though. *WHY* would we get Taker/Punk? Punk has jobbed 3 times in a row now, and Taker didn't show tonight. There can't be that many people out there (casual fans or the hardcore ones) that could truly believe Punk would have ANY chance at all of ending the streak after seeing the way he's been booked....
> 
> Unless Punk ends the streak and proclaims he's GOD. unk4
> 
> WHAT THE HELL IS PUNK GONNA DO!?


He's gonna do what he does best

Talk his ass off


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Haven't seen Cena/Punk but the two shield matches are leading MOTYC so far from WWE.



> Shame they never did it *as the original plan was to turn Cena heel in Nexus* then have him face Orton at Mania.


lol. I doubt that was ever the original plan.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

THE LIST:

1. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
2. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
3. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
4. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
5. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
6. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)

Punk picking up where he left off in 2012. Wrestler of the year form.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> lol. I doubt that was ever the original plan.


Former member of creative said that Vince wanted to go with that but then somebody talked him out of it.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Seriously? If that's your breakdown of that match I don't know what to tell you...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Tim Legend said:


> Seriously? If that's your breakdown of that match I don't know what to tell you...


But it's pretty much exactly what happened.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MOTY so far for me

1. John cena/ryback/sheamus vs the shield NWO 

2. John cena vs cm punk RAW

3. Dolph ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio MAIN EVENT


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Really good match but I can't say I wasn't waiting for Taker the whole time..


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Dude you're wrong, not about the beginning stretch, and the commercials but everything after the second break was engaging, I'm not going to fine tooth comb the match for you because no matter how well I convey what I enjoyed you won't agree so it's cool if you didn't like it because of one aspect cena)


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Former member of creative said that Vince wanted to go with that but then somebody talked him out of it.


Link me to the interview/article and I'll believe it then. No way in hell they turn heel the guy who ships the most merch, does the most media, and is the most recognizable face of the company, especially in 2010 when you legit only had Cena as THE guy, and business and buyrates were dropping way the fuck down. Not only is that improbably, it would've also been a very stupid fucking decision on Vince's part had it happened. Orton was champ but still played second fiddle to the whole Cena/Nexus feud. Only reason we got Cena/Miz was because of Vince's hard on for second rate media attention that Miz got because he was a former reality run off.

Punk vs. Cena would've been a better feud and match then Orton/Cena at WrestleMania 27. On second thought, I wish we DID get Orton/Cena at WrestleMania XXVII because with the Rock coming back and all, I'd rather he overshadow Orton/Cena then an Cena/Punk at the time anyway.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Tim Legend said:


> Dude you're wrong, not about the beginning stretch, and the commercials but everything after the second break was engaging, I'm not going to fine tooth comb the match for you because no matter how well I convey what I enjoyed you won't agree so it's cool if you didn't like it because of one aspect cena)


The selling (or lack there of) was certainly one aspect. But it wasn't just that. It was a first half of nothing, and a second half of false finishes. They've had better matches with much better structuring and much better selling from Cena. But I know it's WWE and they're trying to make Cena look really strong going into his WM match with The Rock.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

On another side note from RAW, how fucking bad are these Sheamus/Barrett segments? So forced & not funny in the slightest.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

I'm still confused as to whether we're getting Sheamus/Barrett at Mania or if it'll be Sheamus/Ryback/Orton vs. The Shield at Mania :hmm:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> On another side note from RAW, how fucking bad are these Sheamus/Barrett segments? So forced & not funny in the slightest.


Awful. Wwe could GIVE 2 FUCKS about wrestlemanias undercard this year.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Lol bro... Cena hit 2 AAs and punk hit one of his... It's not like they were trading finisher near falls over and over... You're over simplifying what they did...


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Punk/Cena Raw match was great. Great back and forth action with some neat callbacks from their previous matches (i.e. Punk countering the 5 Moves of Doom) and some cool new stuff as well (Holy Piledriver! and LOL @ Cena's hurricanrana) Even though as a Punk mark the ending dissapointed me, still a great, fun match to watch. TV MOTY ****


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Nah, didn't do it for me, personally. The first half of going through the motions made what they were going to go for in the 2nd half very predictable to me. The WWE main event style of of false finishes (and not just from finishing moves, mind you). I love false finishes BTW, but man, WWE milks the shit out of them sometimes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punter said:


> Link me to the interview/article and I'll believe it then. No way in hell they turn heel the guy who ships the most merch, does the most media, and is the most recognizable face of the company, especially in 2010 when you legit only had Cena as THE guy, and business and buyrates were dropping way the fuck down. Not only is that improbably, it would've also been a very stupid fucking decision on Vince's part had it happened. Orton was champ but still played second fiddle to the whole Cena/Nexus feud. Only reason we got Cena/Miz was because of Vince's hard on for second rate media attention that Miz got because he was a former reality run off.
> 
> Punk vs. Cena would've been a better feud and match then Orton/Cena at WrestleMania 27. On second thought, I wish we DID get Orton/Cena at WrestleMania XXVII because with the Rock coming back and all, I'd rather he overshadow Orton/Cena then an Cena/Punk at the time anyway.


Damn, I just went and searched but couldn't find it. It was uploaded by TVTrax and it was somebody who was part of creative talking. He said Vince agreed with turning Cena heel in the middle of the Nexus storyline to set him up for a Mania 27 main event against Orton but then somebody convinced him not to pull the plug. I wouldn't have any reason to lie and if I could find the video, I would've definitely posted it. Hell, there was even a topic on it around here when the interview was uploaded.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

I guess it's their fault for working that WWE style too well...

Anyways on to greener pastures :swagger 

weed the people


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

It's obviously gonna be Bo Dallas leading charge against the Shield at Mania.

Bo & BoD vs. Shield #anotheronebitesthecrust


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

The Sheamus/Barrett segment was nauseating, but in all fairness, I wouldn't mind if they were given a match at Mania, their TV matches have been pretty solid. Just know they'd step it up at the big dance.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Nah, I just like matches with better structuring and some degree of selling. Anyway, not a big deal. Moving on..

Pretty surprised Vince was going to turn Cena heel and join the Nexus. Who knows where the company would be right now if they did, whether it be for the better or worse.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I like how they're having Sheamus in two different programs. It makes the Mania card slightly less predictable. Him vs. Barrett & a six man with The Shield would both potentially steal the show at Mania.

Also, call me crazy, but if Bork is really sticking around after Mania, I think he's going to win the rematch with HHH.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Naaah. :jpl is definitely going to win. 

:brock is going to come out the night after Mania and F5 :rock4 to setup WrestleMania XXX's main-event though


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

When HHH/Lesnar II happens at Wrestlemania, hopefully it will be a fucking bloodbath


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> When HHH/Lesnar II happens at Wrestlemania, hopefully it will be a fucking bloodbath




I thought this would happen last year in HIAC with taker. Wasn't the case.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

****1/4 for Punk/Cena. Amazing TV match that got a great amount of time to work with. The finishing sequence was incredible. I was a sucker for all the false finishes and the submission counters were awesome too. DAT PILEDRIVER


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I liked Punk/Cena but the count out spot was awful. Cena was motionless until 9 then just got up and ran into the ring. Then fell down and acted like he was out again. Keep in mind I like Cena but that and the hurracanrana didn't work for me.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I thought this would happen last year in HIAC with taker. Wasn't the case.


Well Brock bled like a stuffed pig tonight, so that at least to me, should give me an indication of how the match is going to go...

I don't know, I feel that a match this personal there should be SOME blood


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Well Brock bled like a stuffed pig tonight, so that at least to me, should give me an indication of how the match is going to go...
> 
> I don't know, I feel that a match this personal there should be SOME blood


To play devils advocate, it's not like Brock bladed. Hunter threw Brock really hard towards the turnbuckle and Brock didn't have time to get his hand up or his hand eye was off or something. Whatever it was, it's not like the blood was planned.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Punter said:


> To play devils advocate, it's not like Brock bladed. Hunter threw Brock really hard towards the turnbuckle and Brock didn't have time to get his hand up or his hand eye was off or something. Whatever it was, it's not like the blood was planned.


Maybe it wasn't, but it was nice seeing Brock bleed since I feel it adds to the personal aspect to their rivalry (Brock breaking Hunter's arm twice, F-5ing his father-in-law) and it will all come to a brutal end at Mania. Hopefully it'll be a good match nonetheless, though I've yet to watch their Summerslam encounter.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> I liked Punk/Cena but the count out spot was awful. Cena was motionless until 9 then just got up and ran into the ring. Then fell down and acted like he was out again. Keep in mind I like Cena but that and the hurracanrana didn't work for me.



It's things like that that makes it difficult to give as much credit to John as I'm giving to Punk for this excellent match they had on Raw. Punk did most of the counters and his execution was great. Cena performed well, but a lot of what he does looks too silly when you're watching one of his matches. His facial expressions are often overdone (the crossface he did on Punk. If you get a chance to see that again, look at Cena's face). That hurracanrana looked horrid and they replayed it like 3 times which I found funny. And that countout spot actually aggravated me. He seemed dead for 9 seconds, surprisingly jumps up and runs into the ring, only to go back to laying down for another 10 seconds in the ring. It isn't very believable at all. 

I don't want to sound like I'm whining though, it was a very entertaining match.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Would you guys say *The Best of Clash of the Champions *is a worth a buy if I already own all of Flair, Austin, & Steamboat's sets? Blu Ray extras look even better. Starz would be appreciated as well.


Just checked this out from the library a few weeks ago. Now let me preface that a lot of this is a bit before my time... I became a wrestling fan somewhere around the mid 90s, pre MNW shit. So this set wasn't something I would probably buy, but watch, of course.

There's some fun on this set. There's a great Flair/Luger match from 1990 which might have been my personal favorite. Also there's a fun little Regal/Rhodes (Dustin) although it doesn't necessarily exceed expectations. Sting/Rude was cool, and a lot of the stuff on Disc 1 I've already enjoyed, and only had the set for a limited time. Pillman/Austin was okay. 

Didn't really care for a few things... the Cactus Jack match, from what I recall, was rather short. Also some of the Disc 3 stuff failed to impress, like Jericho/Guerrero. 

It's a cool set all in all though.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

PUNK V CENA RAW ****1/2

Best Raw match since, well, I don't know.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Been so many matches where a wrestler is down by a 9 count only to use his spirit to rise up and enter the ring before the match ends. It was done at WrestleMania 25 in the match everyone creams over. So if it was a problem tonight, it was a problem then.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Cena does a crossface.

Cole: BACK IN THE STF


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Great match, but Cena really no-sold a lot of it. This is not just blind Cena hate, the dude just kept ignoring what was being done to him.

Example - the second time Punk hit the running knee to Cena's face when Cena was in the corner, he grabbed Cena to pull him back out and Cena just ignored the fact he got HIT IN THE FACE BY A RUNNING KNEE and just picked up Punk and gave him an AA. Almost got the pin and carried on as if nothing happened.

I don't mind the odd moment of no-sell, due to adrenalin pumping and someone just forgetting to sell for a minute. But the dude did it through the whole match and really takes away from it. Pisses me off.

It was still an entertaining match, and the hot crowd added a lot to it. I think we need a break from Cena/Punk for a while now though. We've seen it enough.

So it's official...Rock vs Cena 2 and Brock vs Triple H 2. What a crock.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Strangely, I'm looking forward to both Cena/Rock and Lesnar/Hunter more than I did the first time around.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Brock/Trips will get some kind of stipulation, right? Even if it's just no holds barred. Hell in a cell? :side:




Hohenheim of Light said:


> Bo & BoD vs. Shield #anotheronebitesthecrust


Bo's the third brother. BoD vs. Shield.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not hard to believe the knee to the face -> fighting spirit bit into the swift F-U for Cena. Guy was hit clear in the face. It was legit. It obviously hurt to an intense degree. Doesn't stop him from grabbing his opponent in close range and drop him quickly for a nearfall. That was one of the better parts of the match.

Only moment worth pointing out as a flaws was how half of the match was seemingly pointless till it picked up. Other than that, the hot sequence at the end was a lot of fun. Replace Cena with Daniel Bryan and nobody would have given a damn. Or Ziggler. Or Del Rio. Or anybody. That's the vibe I'm getting. Apparently Punk was flawless during this and only Cena was at fault. C'mon now. Both were equal shares on all aspects during the match. Much like every single time they lock it up. Back and forth is how their matches always play out.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I honestly couldn't take Trips seriously with that haircut, Also anyone notice how McMahon saw Brock get busted open. I wonder what he was thinking. Probably saying to himself, "What the hell are you doing Brock? Did the script say you had to blade yourself, This is the PG ERA!!!"


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

He didn't blade.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My MOTY is still Jericho, Ryback, and Sheamus vs. The Shield from last week's Raw.

Cena/Punk is second best at ****. Awesome TV match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Arnold Tricky said:


> He didn't blade.


Thank you, Captain Obvious. I know he didn't.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Hopefully they upload it to their youtube in full like they did Punk/Jericho


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Trips/Lesnar brawl from last night made me excited for this match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would throw a **** on Punk/Cena at the least. Match fucking owned.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Been so many matches where a wrestler is down by a 9 count only to use his spirit to rise up and enter the ring before the match ends. It was done at WrestleMania 25 in the match everyone creams over. So if it was a problem tonight, it was a problem then.


Undertaker played with the 10 count MUCH better than Cena. I wouldn't compare.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did have to fpalm at the Cena 10 count nonsense, its the way he did it, i just thought FFS, other than, really ace match IMO, Cena looked like he gave a shit which was nice.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Couldn't get into the Cena/Punk match until after the 2nd commercial. Would give it a ***1/2 though. Big cheers to the Piledriver, added something to the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not understanding this nitpicking with 'selling' from Cena. The countout spot was 100% believable. Just because he gets up and runs in the ring on the 9 count doesn't mean he isn't selling. It means he hears the damn count so he musters up all he had left and sprinted under the ropes. Not like he got up right after that and started hittin clotheslines or somethin. I thought the match was over for sure once the ref hit 8.

Coulda swore I read somewhere that he didn't sell the piledriver either. In response, he was on the mat for a decent bit considering he took two nearfalls and was laid out for the elbow drop. I honestly don't remember too many bits of no selling, maybe the opposite actually. He climbed the ropes so damn slow to try to hit the leg drop.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I can actually see why people wouldn't dig this match from the structure to the execution, and even Cena's selling. I was really into that last portion of the match from the time they did the wrestling exchanges to the finish.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I guess I just didn't like it for the predictable ending, the no selling and the slow start. Not that I have anything against slow starts as a lot of the best matches of all time have slow starts but I don't know, I just think people are blinkered at times by the whole false finishing. It was an okay match, nothing more, nothing less in my view.

Did mark for the Piledriver though. :mark:


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Not sure how a Cena Hurricarana to AA is a predictable finish. Thought it was the best finish they could really play out, since they had played out every other move in their arsenals. Maybe you mean a predictable winner? But I don't think that should take away from a match.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Not sure how a Cena Hurricarana to AA is a predictable finish. Thought it was the best finish they could really play out, since they had played out every other move in their arsenals. Maybe you mean a predictable winner? But I don't think that should take away from a match.


Predictable winner, predictable the way Cena would no sell everything and just jump right into his finishing manoeuvre. It's the same old shit and it's pathetic. Sadly, we'll get that at Wrestlemania too no doubt, Cena no selling anything only to put Rock into the AA, smile, get the win, lift the belt, Michael Cole and Jerry the Cunt saying how Cena has overcome the odds once more, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

But Cena doesn't feel pain, he just gets gassed out slowly during a match, gains a second wind and wins the match. If you look at it from a kayfabe POV. No need to sell.

The latter would be on the basis that the Rock somehow becomes Brock Lesnar overnight. I do agree they need to die away with the underdog stuff. Hes bigger than most of the roster.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> But Cena doesn't feel pain, he just gets gassed out slowly during a match, gains a second wind and wins the match. If you look at it from a kayfabe POV. No need to sell.
> 
> The latter would be on the basis that the Rock somehow becomes Brock Lesnar overnight. *I do agree they need to die away with the underdog stuff. Hes bigger than most of the roster. *


Yeah, that's something I was thinking about while watching last night. Like why doesn't Cena just overpower this guy?... Oh that's right, he has to be the babyface underdog. It'd be a nice refreshing change to see Cena on the offensive, controlling his opponent for a while.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> *But Cena doesn't feel pain, he just gets gassed out slowly during a match, gains a second wind and wins the match. If you look at it from a kayfabe POV. No need to sell.*
> 
> The latter would be on the basis that the Rock somehow becomes Brock Lesnar overnight. I do agree they need to die away with the underdog stuff. Hes bigger than most of the roster.


But don't you see how pathetic that is?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

:mark: 

Can't wait to watch this next week!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***3/4 for Cena/Punk. Great match, but behind the SHIELD tag from last week for TV MOTY... and then behind the SHIELD tag from EC for MOTY. Re-watched both as well as the EC match and EC rating went down to ***3/4 while tag went to **** and the raw one went from ***1/2 to ***3/4.

Can someone give me the dates for Punk/Jericho and Bryan/Jericho Raw matches please?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I just came in here to say one thing......DAT CENA/PUNK CHEMISTRY :mark:

Damn, you commercial breaks. Wish I could have seen the entire thing. At least they came back just in time for all the goodness. What I liked about this finisher fest of a match is the SELLING. They didn't just get up 5 seconds later to hit another big move. They actually laid on the mat and looked like they really had the wind knocked out of them.

Are people seriously saying that Cena didn't sell? How does running into the ring on the 9 count and freaking laying in the ring like a dead carcass afterwards= NO SELLING? Seriously, if you don't know the meaning of selling, don't bother to comment on it. Had he ran into the ring and started sprinting across the ropes and started doing triple jumps then the argument could have been made.

One of the simplest and most effective ways of selling is simply laying on the floor. Even look at how Cena climbed the ropes. To me Cena is one of the few wrestlers out there that actually climbs the turnbuckle like it's really 20 minutes to the match and he's had the shit kicked out of him.

And how the heck was this match predictable? As a matter of fact I was expecting a DQ or something and they turned into a triple threat at Mania. Thank God they didn't ruin such a good match with a DQ ending. I think those who saying this match was "predictable" are just typical Cena haters.

This match is one of the few instances where I actually enjoyed a finisher fest. Had it not been for the commercials I might have given it MOTY thus far but it's still Shield vs Ryback/Sheamus/Jericho for me. Nonetheless, we got an awesome main event last night and it really woke the crowd up.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> And how the heck was this match predictable? As a matter of fact I was expecting a DQ or something and they turned into a triple threat at Mania. Thank God they didn't ruin such a good match with a DQ ending. I think those who saying this match was "predictable" are just typical Cena haters.
> 
> This match is one of the few instances where I actually enjoyed a finisher fest. Had it not been for the commercials I might have given it MOTY thus far but it's still Shield vs Ryback/Sheamus/Jericho for me. Nonetheless, we got an awesome main event last night and it really woke the crowd up.


 It was predictable. After Taker returning in a house show, it's likely he will face Punk at Mania so there was no way Punk would win or draw this match to add himself in the main event. I know Punk - Taker isn't confirmed but I expect it to happen. I honestly couldn't see Cena not winning after Taker's house show appearance.

All in all, it's a ***3/4 match. Great TV match.  . Cena was impressive all night IMO. His promo was intense and it wasn't him making corny jokes.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Can someone give me the dates for Punk/Jericho and Bryan/Jericho Raw matches please?


4/2 & 11/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy crap, i completely forgot about that Cena promo as well. I was half asleep on myself, I had enough of the crappy movie trailers, but then Cena comes and bam! I'm up.

It seems as if Punk brings out the best in Cena. Maybe Cena genuinely likes working with Punk so he gives it his all. I don't know. But I wish he could be consistent with his promos.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Cookie Monster said:


> But don't you see how pathetic that is?


As long as he looks fatigued and gassed out at the end of matches, I think its fine. Adrenaline can take away some forms of pain which you don't feel till later on, which is also 'hulking up'. So it fits Cena. It can detract things when people should look better after a lengthy match, but he made Punk look perfect. I think it fitted for yesterdays match. But there are definately circumstances where he should make his opponents offense look more impressive.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think the 9 count argument is kinda lame. It's the sense of urgency and it completely makes sense. He realized he needed to get in there fast and he did. It's not like he starting running around afterwards. Selling is FINE.

And goddamn this has been a good year for TV matches. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***+ matches this year for me (missing a couple that I haven't seen yet):

The Shield Vs Sheamus, Ryback & John Cena - Elimination Chamber 17/02/2013 - ****
The Shield Vs Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho - Raw 18/02/2013 - ***3/4
John Cena Vs CM Punk - Raw 25/02/2013 - ***3/4
Mark Henry Vs Daniel Bryan Vs Kane Vs Chris Jericho Vs Randy Orton Vs Jack Swagger - Elimination Chamber 17/02/2013 - ***3/4
CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - Raw 04/02/2013 - ***3/4
Dolph Ziggler Vs Sheamus - Main Event 09/01/2013 - ***3/4
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble 27/01/2103 - ***1/4
Joseph Park Vs Devon - Genesis 13/01/2013 - ***1/2
CM Punk Vs Ryback - TLC Match - Raw 07/01/2013 - ***1/4
Daniel Bryan Vs Chris Jericho - Raw 11/02/2013 - ***
Damien Sandow & Antonio Cesaro Vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - NXT - 16/01/2013 - ***
Dolph Ziggler Vs John Cena - Raw 07/01/2013 - ***
The Big Show & Antonio Cesaro Vs Randy Orton & Sheamus - Smackdown 04/01/2013 - ***


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Seriously, what an awesome year, only two months in too.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Big Z said:


> ***+ matches this year for me (missing a couple that I haven't seen yet):
> 
> The Shield Vs Sheamus, Ryback & John Cena - Elimination Chamber 17/02/2013 - ****
> The Shield Vs Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho - Raw 18/02/2013 - ***3/4
> ...




No love for ziggler vs del rio on main event? They put on a terrific match. Better than ziggler/sheamus IMO


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Since I've calmed down over my complete and utter RAGE from last night I need to say a few things ;

Rock vs Cena will be fine. Cena showed last night that he's determined to bring it, and if Rock can drag his ass to MetLife then the match should be okay, due to the fact that Cena works a style that meshes will with pretty much anybody. If Cena can get another three star match out of Rock then he deserves that WWE Championship around his waist.

Punk vs Taker (while obviously not confirmed) should be a fantastic match, but you have to question the WWE's booking going into this one in the sense that Punk looks alot weaker now than he did a month ago. He's taken two losses to Rock and one to Cena, so what chance does he have against the Undertaker at WRESTLEMANIA ? Then I thought about it ; we all knew the last three years (like, 100 percent) that The Undertaker was winning. The Streak is about great storytelling and leaving it all out there, and I hope Punk finds a way to suspend disbelief long enough to make the match interesting.

The match that I'm hating the most heading into Wrestlemania is Brock vs Triple H for the main reason that they're two of my favorite guys and I want to see something different for them. This match needs a big time stipulation BADLY and if it gets one then I MIGHT be interested, but it needs to be a stipulation that holds long term implications. It NEEDS to be for control of the company or Triple H's career on the line, but The GAME is my all time favorite and I really don't want to see him retire so fuck that shit.

That Punk-Cena match last night was amazing for a TV match and I need to rewatch it. Thought it was on par if not better than their epic Night of Champions encounter and my definite MOTY at this point.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I think Cena/Rock will put on a better match than their previous one from wrestlemania 28. Not saying their match was bad I rate it ***1/2 

But I think they could put on a 4 star match at this years Mania.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

xdoomsayerx said:


> No love for ziggler vs del rio on main event? They put on a terrific match. Better than ziggler/sheamus IMO


Haven't seen that match yet, its one of the ones I've missed.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Am I the only one who didn't feel Punk/Cena?
> 
> It's a match we've seen a dozen times from them. We all KNEW the outcome of the match will takes away anything from it for me as well as the fact that Cena didn't sell all match. False finishes doesn't make a match a MOTY contender, it makes a match pathetic if you ask me, sure it's okay in the BIG BIG matches, but it happens far too often when one of Punk or Cena are in the match and it becomes tedious and boring.


It might be this, or the fact that I find it hard to care for matches when it's 4am and I'm tired and just want the show to be over already. Couldn't get into Punk/Jericho a few weeks back for the same reason. I think I'll have to give this match a re-watch before I give my rating.

Did like Punk's piledriver, and Cena's sitdown powerbomb though.

I just dislike how we're getting Rock/Cena again, and while Triple H and Lesnar's opening brawl was great, I'm not a fan of seeing HHH/Lesnar again either. would of much rather had Rock/Cena/Punk and Brock/Taker. And I'm little annoyed that the Swagger/Del Rio feud is still going, Swagger should of been punished bad for his fuck up, maybe he'll get punished after Mania. Swagger has 0% chance of winning at Mania thank god.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Taker should be great but idk, I'm interested to see how much of a threat they can make Punk look like. We all knew Taker was beating HBK and HHH at the last 4 Manias but even so Michaels and Hunter looked like credible, dangerous threats to the streak and in both cases the rematches had big appeal with Shawn's career on the line and End of an Era. Not sure they can create something 'epic' with Punk.

I'm expecting Brock/Hunter to steal the show. I was against this rematch like everybody else but I thought their first match was really good and their brawl last night has me hoping for a more brutal war this time around. Completely bought into the psychology and story of the Summerslam match. This one needs to be an all out war and I think we're going to get that. Brock needs to come in and ANNIHILATE Trips like he did to Cena. Add a gimmick to the match, put H's career on the line, and let them go all out with weapons, brawling and hopefully some blood.



Big Z said:


> Haven't seen that match yet, its one of the ones I've missed.


Watch it. It hasn't gotten as much praise on here as Jericho/Punk and Jericho/Bryan but I thought it was great. Also heard good things about Del Rio/Barrett from last week's Smackdown but haven't seen it yet.

Btw, do you have a link for The Shield 6 man on Raw? The one I found had shitty volume.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Triple H is going out then I'd be glad to see him go out at the hands of BROCK LESNAR.

BROCK-GAME will be the show stealer if it's fucking violent because nobody does violent shit better than DA BROCKTAGON and since GAME is a top 5 gimmick match performer ever it should be awesome, but they need to break out into an epic brawl again like every week in order to keep me interes............. 

WHAT AM I SAYING. IT'S BROCK FUCKING LESNAR VS THE GAME. I'M IN.

:HHH2 :brock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd watch those matches.. but urgh, I have no desire to sit through anything involving Del Rio . Sorry, no link for Shield 6 Man.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm expecting Brock/Hunter to steal the show. I was against this rematch like everybody else but I thought their first match was really good and their brawl last night has me hoping for a more brutal war this time around. Completely bought into the psychology and story of the Summerslam match. *This one needs to be an all out war and I think we're going to get that. Brock needs to come in and ANNIHILATE Trips like he did to Cena. Add a gimmick to the match, put H's career on the line, and let them go all out with weapons, brawling and hopefully some blood.*


I enjoyed their Summerslam match, I digged their brawl last night, the blood was awesome, but I wanted to see something different for Mania, but the bolded part of your post would make the match much more interesting. Make it a No DQ all out brawl, put Triple H's career on the line, and I'll get much more invested in it.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I saw an idea for Team Heyman vs Team Vince

Brock & SHIELD Vs. HHH , Sheamus , Orton, Ryback

Would be fucking great imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I made this post in the Raw thread:



> I just wish Brock would have been the one standing 'victorious' in the fucking ring for a change, not HHH.
> 
> Have HIM destroy Hunter, then just stand over his body, still bleeding himself of course, and just do a muscle pose or something, like 'dont fuck with me' kind of thing.
> 
> ...


I just hope the Mania match is indeed like that brwal, just an all out fucking battle, any shit goes, and FFS Brock actually winning again too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I enjoyed their Summerslam match, I digged their brawl last night, the blood was awesome, but I wanted to see something different for Mania, but the bolded part of your post would make the match much more interesting. Make it a No DQ all out brawl, put Triple H's career on the line, and I'll get much more invested in it.


If they do a normal match that would be a worse decision than when they made Orton/HHH a normal match at 25. Gotta be no holds barred. Last man standing would work too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Being critical of HHH getting the better of Brock last night is just silly. Lesnar broke his arm twice and beat him clean at Summerslam. They couldn't have Brock come out on top again last night, especially the way the Heyman/McMahon stuff has gone, and it was HHH's return.



BANKSY said:


> I saw an idea for Team Heyman vs Team Vince
> 
> Brock & SHIELD Vs. HHH , Sheamus , Orton, Ryback
> 
> Would be fucking great imo.


That would own. BROCK and SHIELD in the same match = :mark:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

As soon as Punk hit a Piledriver I completely forgot everything that happened before and went into 10 year old wrestling fan mode but that match was great. Cena should never do a hurricanrana again and that 10 count was dumb but I don't have any big complaints other than that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll start getting excited for Brock/Trips once they announce a stipulation for it. Hell in a Cell? Yes please. Last Man Standing? I'll take it. Career vs. Career? Why not! Just give me somethin big cause Cena/Rock II blows and as of right now, Punk/Taker would make zero sense. And for the love of god do something with Henry!

Does anyone have links for Jericho/Bryan from RAW & Sheamus/Ziggler from Main Event? Never found either on YouTube.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Does anyone have links for Jericho/Bryan from RAW & Sheamus/Ziggler from Main Event? Never found either on YouTube.


Jericho/Bryan: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...yan-11-02-13_sport?search_algo=2#.USz5F6KeNh0

Sheamus/Dolph: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...watch-online_sport?search_algo=2#.USz5pqKeNh0


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingOfKings Top 50 Wrestlemania Matches in History : 15-11


15. _"I no longer wanted to be the showstopper.."_










Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX) : ***** 1/2*


14. _"Warrior pointing to the sky as if to ask if it's his time"_










The Ultimate Warrior vs 'Macho King' Randy Savage (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII) : ***** 1/2*


13. _"HISTORY BECKONS THE MACHO MAN!"_










Intercontinental Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III) : ***** 1/2*


12. _"Stone Cold has sold his soul to the devil"_










WWF Championship - The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin (No DQ ; Wrestlemania X-7) : ***** 1/2*


11. _"It is the end of the world as we know it...."_










WWE Championship - CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : ***** 1/2*



So here we are, we've made it to the top 10. The first thing I want to say is YES, I have Punk vs Jericho ahead of Rock vs Austin. Why ? Because it's better, no explanation needed. Nah, I thought the whole "best in the world" story factored into this one really really well, and honestly has there been a better "if X wrestler gets Dq'ed then he loses the title" match better than this one ? Punk vs Jericho was everything that Triple H vs Randy Orton WANTED to be but failed to be every every single way. This stole the show in my opinion and even though I respect that the fans were completely burnt out after Taker-GAME, I thought this was the superior match. Punk's best pure babyface performance ever ? Perhaps so. This is the best WWE Championship match in Wrestlemania history... OR IS IT?

Rock-Austin is what it is ; the true end of an era complete with throwbacks to previous matches, crazy all out attitude brawling, and some pretty great storytelling until we get to the climax that I always hated. Have Vince come down and help Austin win, period. WE DON'T NEED FIVE FUCKING MINUTES OF VINCE-AUSTIN INTERACTION AND ROCK KICKOUTS TO GET THIS SHIT ACROSS. I'm sorry, but the finish of this match deducts it for me big time but when it comes to WWE style main events this is really high on the pedestal and the best Rock-Austin match.... OR IS IT ?

HBK vs Chris Jericho was a dream match in the eyes of many, and they delivered it big time. When I first watched the match it felt like something was missing and I wasn't sure what it was until I rewatched it again ; it was missing nothing and I'm just insane . Seriously, what a fucking awesome match this was, with HBK being the veteran and Y2J being the guy who wants to out wrestle the showstopper and his childhood icon while at the same time establishing himself as being the dominant man. The best match of Wrestlemania XIX..... OR IS IT ?

Lastly, WHAT A FUCKING GUY RANDY SAVAGE WAS. There is no doubt in my mind that the guy was Mr. Wrestlemania for a long period of time with Steamboat-Savage being the iconic match that every knows and loves from the early days. Pretty sure it was the best NON-Backlund match for the longest while in WWE history until Wrestlemania VIII rolled around but we'll get to that one later. The near-falls were some of the best ever, the character work by Savage was GODLY, and the ending with the bell always makes me go crazy. Slightly better than Warrior-Savage, which is nothing but pure storytelling 101. If you're wondering how to sell a match properly without OMGZ MOVEZ and relying purely on emotion you should look to this match. Warrior's best match ever (far superior to the Hogan match, which was a bigger match) and perhaps the greatest MOMENT in Wrestlemania history (counting down my top 29 moments in Mania history... COMING SOON). Savage's greatest Wrestlemania match ever... OR IS IT ?



Spoiler: The List Thus Far



50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV)
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX)
48. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV)
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI)
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII)
45. Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII)
44. The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII)
43. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV)
42. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7)
41. Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII)
40. Batista vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI)
39. CM Punk vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXVII)
38. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania X-8)
37. Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI)
36. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania XXIV)
35. Christian vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XX)
34. Mick Foley vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXII)
33. Triple H vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX)
32. TLC II (Wrestlemania X-7)
31. MITB IV (Wrestlemania XXIV)
30. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7)
29. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV)
28. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI)
27. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
26. Triple H vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 2000)
25. Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XX)
24. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
23. The Undertaker vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania X-8)
22. Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXII)
21. The Undertaker vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXIII)
20. The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVIII)
19. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. The Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV)
17. Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon (Wrestlemania X)
16. MITB I (Wrestlemania XXI)
15. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX)
14. Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VII)
13. Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III)
12. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania X-7)
11. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


>


Looks like there is a naked woman or something standing in the corner...dat blurring 

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX) ****1/2
The Ultimate Warrior vs 'Macho King' Randy Savage (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII) ****1/2
Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III) ****1/4
The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin (No DQ ; Wrestlemania X-7) ****3/4 (LOVE this match tbh)
WWE Championship - CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) ****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No problems with that portion of your list. I pretty much have everything at the same rating, give or take a 1/4*. Gettin caught up:

*Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk *(_RAW 2/4)

_Could this be anything less than great? Nope. Two guys that know each other so well basically go out and have a callback match to their classics from last year. Lots of scouting and reversals of signature moves, loved Punk's reversal to the springboard dropkick on the apron. What's amazing is that you could tell both guys weren't even in high gear, they were sleepwalking there way through this at half speed. Punk's psychology around the neck that lead to the anaconda vice was great and he sold the pain in his back from the walls of Jericho nicely at the end as well. Lines of the year said by Punk as the crowd chants 'overrated!': "Scotty you're overrated, that's disrespectful!" Then as they chant 'this is awesome': "Oh first it's overrated, now it's awesome! Sit down ya marks!" :lmao I fuckin love that guy. Great match. **** 3/4

*Wanna watch in HD?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zn8il-u6g


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX) - ★★★★
Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VII) - N/A
Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III) - ★★★½
Steve Austin vs The ROCK (Wrestlemania X-7) - ★★★★★
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) - ★★★★

Great work as usual. Only complaint is Austin/ROCK being way too low.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Think anybody can guess my top 10 in perfect order ?

.. and THANKS GUYS :brock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX) ****1/4
The Ultimate Warrior vs 'Macho King' Randy Savage (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII) ?? Find out in a month 
Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III) ?? Find out in a month .
The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin (No DQ ; Wrestlemania X-7) ****1/2
WWE Championship - CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) ****1/2


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Michaels/Jericho 19 ****
Savage/Warrior 7 ****3/4
Savage/Steamboat 3 ***1/2 Thought it was a great match, but nothing more.
Rock/Austin 17 ****1/4
Punk/Jericho 28 Pretty sure I had that about ***1/2, can't actually remember. Haven't seen it since it was live. I'll rewatch it before 29.

Took some time recently, well, took me 2 days to watch this, but, Wrestlemania 1.

Tito Santana vs The Executioner
1/2*
King Kong Bundy vs S.D Jones
-
Matt Borne vs Ricky Steamboat
*1/2
David Sammartino vs Brutus Beefcake
*3/4
Greg Valentine vs Junkyard Dog
*1/4
Sheik/Volkoff vs Windham/Rotundo
*1/2
John Studd vs Andre the Giant
1/2*
RIchter/Lai
1/2*
Orndoff/Piper vs Hogan/Mr. T
**

Super critical, but I did not enjoy any of it. Matches had no length, they weren't interesting, captivating. It was like watching a poorly lit RAW with a good crowd.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HBK/Jericho: ****

Warrior/Savage: ****	( warriors best match)

Savage/steamboat: ****1/2

Austin/Rock: *****	(their best match)

Punk/Jericho: ****1/4

Austin/Rock WM 17 is definitely a 5 star match IMO. Featured everything.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Rock/Cena: While their first match was entertaining i don't see how the WWE title is going to make the buildup or the match any different then the previous one. There was more heat between them in the weeks before WM 27 so i feel they've gone backwards. The brawl didn't change my mind about not wanting a rematch.
HHH/Lesnar: Wasn't looking forward to their first match when it was rumored and hated the match went it happened.
Punk/Taker: Punk is right back where he was this time last year in the 3rd biggest match on the card. Step back for Taker after the last 4 encounters.

Cant say i care about any of these matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX) - ****3/4
Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VII) - ****
Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III) - ****1/4
Steve Austin vs The ROCK (Wrestlemania X-7) - *****
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII) - ****1/4

My 15-11:

(****1/4)
15) CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho WM28
14) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton WM21
13) Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat WM3 (OMG KOK, WE HAVE DIS IN DA SAME SPOT!)
12) Undertaker vs. Edge WM24
(****1/2)
11) Steve Austin vs. Rock WM19


As for WM29:

Rock/Cena II should be a good match, although I can't say I'm excited about the feud in the least. Nothing's changed from last year aside from the WWE Title being in the mix. The only new thing they'll have to play off of is the fact Rock beat Cena last year. The promos are probably going to be mediocre for the most part. I don't even have faith in Rock to carry this feud on the mic after his mic work against Punk during their feud. Hopefully they make Rock's defeat as painless as possible and make Cena's reign as quick as possible.

Taker/Punk I'm expecting to be MOTN, and maybe even MOTY. Taker in his match over the weekend looked fantastic and I have no doubt he'll produce a classic with a CM Punk in his peak. But much like Rock/Cena, it's not so much the match will be bad, but the feud leaves a lot to be desired. Where could they possibly go with Taker/Punk? How are any of us supposed to believe Punk is a credible threat to the streak when he lost to Cena clean, not to mention losing to Rock on back-to-back PPV's? Well tbh, I don't really care how much of a kayfabe threat Punk looks to the streak because I don't believe anyone except Cena is a threat to the streak anyway. As long as they can suspend my disbelief in the match itself, that'll work for me. Maybe Punk pulls out the Pepsi Plunge to try and end the streak after 3 or so GTS'? Fuck if I know, but out of the big 3 matches, this one is the one I'm looking forward to the most by far, even though it should've been Taker/Lesnar with Punk either facing HHH or being put in Rock/Cena for a triple threat.

And then we have the match, the feud, out of the big 3 matches, that I'm least looking forward to. Lesnar/HHH. Fuck me, this is going to suck unless they let these two men kill each other, which shouldn't happen anyway as Brock should be the only one doing the killing. Brock looked incredibly weak on Raw compared to how he usually looks, getting completely dominated by HHH. Lesnar should be dominating HHH each and every week they get into any type of physical interaction with HHH battling inside himself whether he truly believes he can beat Lesnar. HHH should for once be a true underdog and act like it for the feud and match. They should build up the match as HHH trying to redeem himself and maybe on the last week before Mania, he pulls out the sledgehammer, driving it into Lesnar's stomach to get the upperhand and showing he does have an ace in the hole and maybe a glimmer of hope of beating Lesnar. 

Then at Mania, HHH does his entrance with the hammer and rather than do his usual water-spit, goes right after Lesnar's stomach with it to take him down, and from there they can have an evenish match with HHH exploiting Lesnar's weakness early on in the match, and picking at it all throughout, while Lesnar looks like even more of a beast still able to fight toe to toe with HHH, even in his weakened state. Then when it looks like HHH might defeat Lesnar with a second or third pedigree, have Lesnar hit a second or third F-5 to finish HHH off, and crushing any hope of there being able to fight toe-to-toe with Lesnar. From there they can do Lesnar/Rock at WM30, have Lesnar destroy Rock and have Taker beat Cena, and then Taker/Lesnar at WM31 if Taker's still gonna be able to go, or Lesnar/Ryback or Sheamus to massively put them over.

But instead, we're going to see HHH being able to fight Lesnar one-on-one anyway and beat him each time leading up to Mania, showing no signs of weakness until Lesnar gets the standard heel control segment on HHH in the Mania match, which HHH will come back from and win anyway. Lesnar's momentum will be totally crushed, HHH will get his win back, and no good comes out of it unless you're someone who hates Lesnar.


The match could be great at the very least if they make it a street fight or something, but if they don't, it'll be Summerslam 2.0, even worse though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's hilarious because literally every match from 10-6 on my list probably wouldn't be on very many people's top 10's, especially four of them. There's like ONE match out of those five which may be included in most lists but judging by the lists that I've seen ? Yeah this top 10 is pretty unique..... Great ratings as always RAWK as I see Austin-Rock shall be entrenched in your top five and HBK-Jericho in your top 10.

Some people are about to have their heads explode in spectacular fashion :lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 MotY's so far:

1 - Cena/Punk Raw
2 - Elimination Chamber Match
3 - Punk/Jericho Raw
4 - Show/ADR I
5 - ADR/Ziggler Main Event


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Haven't seen Punk/Cena from last night but glad to hear it was good despite the predictable ending.

Also, BROCK is a beast. The guy just doesn't seem to give a fuck about the PG era or his own well-being. He flew over the barricade like a madman when HHH clotheslined him (not to mention flying into the ring post head-first). After last night you can sign me up for a BROCK/GAME gimmick match @ Mania.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Just to get it off, Austin/Rock (X-Seven) is the greatest title match in 'Mania history.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Best Rey Mysterio 2007 to now, please. Let's say top ten


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> Brock looked incredibly weak on Raw compared to how he usually looks, getting completely dominated by HHH. Lesnar should be dominating HHH each and every week they get into any type of physical interaction with HHH battling inside himself whether he truly believes he can beat Lesnar. HHH should for once be a true underdog and act like it for the feud and match. They should build up the match as HHH trying to redeem himself and maybe on the last week before Mania, he pulls out the sledgehammer, driving it into Lesnar's stomach to get the upperhand and showing he does have an ace in the hole and maybe a glimmer of hope of beating Lesnar.


Fully agree mate, the point i was referring to earlier   Agree about the impending Mania match too, it has to be different, just let them tear the fucking house down and give Brock everything, just pisses me off that he has had three matches in his comeback, 2 against HHH FFS :argh:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Think anybody can guess my top 10 in perfect order ?
> 
> .. and THANKS GUYS :brock.


Bret/Owen WM10
Austin/ROCK WM19
Undertaker/HHH WM27
HBK/Cena WM23
HBK/HHH/Benoit WM20
Austin/Bret WM13
Savage/Flair WM8
HBK/Undertaker WM25
HBK/Undertaker WM26

These are the matches that I expect in your top 10. Don't know about order or a tenth one.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> Best Rey Mysterio 2007 to now, please. Let's say top ten


Others will likely have a more complete list with dates/events/ratings, but I'd say his entire series with Jericho in '09 and IC title match against Morrison on SD are definitely up there.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Others will likely have a more complete list with dates/events/ratings, but I'd say his entire series with Jericho in '09 and IC title match against Morrison on SD are definitely up there.


Yep, those + the Summerslam match with Ziggler & the RAW match with Cena. Something against Swagger would probably make the cut too. SmackDown No DQ match is a ton of fun.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Cena was good stuff. Electric atmosphere which always adds to a match imo. Don't think it's MOTY though. Apart from the awesome Piledriver and Hurricanrana, both of which legitimately made me sit up out of my seat, the rest was familiar territory. I'm starting to reach the point now where Punk/Cena matches are 'seen one, seen them all' and this only perpetuated that, even though I enjoyed it a ton. I think I called the entire match myself along with them tbh and didn't buy into any of the false finishes except the Piledriver. They definitely caught me with that one. 

I think I'll go Bret Hart on them and give this a 4/10 since I imagined the whole thing in my head first.

:HHH2

I'm kidding. If I had to slap a rating on it I'd go ****3/4*. I still dug it and it's still good stuff but both SHIELD matches have it beat and comfortably so. Surprised that Cena won clean. If the streak is indeed next for Punk then I have no idea what they're doing. 2 straight losses to Rock, then a clean loss to Cena and he's going to call out Taker? Lulz. 

Trips/Brock brawl was awesome and DAT BLOOD. If that's what a future match between them is going to look like then sign me up. I'd also love to see a Vince/Heyman rematch. A crutch on a pole match actually. Would own.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey Mysterio & Alex Riley vs The Miz & Jack Swagger - RAW - 27/6/11


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I'm starting to reach the point now where Punk/Cena matches are 'seen one, seen them all' and this only perpetuated that, even though I enjoyed it a ton.


I kinda get that feeling as well, though I'm still excited to watch their matches because they have stellar chemistry.



GOAT said:


> I still dug it and it's still good stuff but *both SHIELD matches have it beat and comfortably so. Definitely the TV MOTY so far though.*






GOAT said:


> Trips/Brock brawl was awesome and DAT BLOOD. If that's what a future match between them is going to look like then sign me up.


~!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rey ? I'll try it.

vs Jericho ER 09
vs Jericho BASH 09
vs Jericho JD 09

vs DOLPH NOC 09

vs Morrison SD 09

vs Punk WM XXVI
vs Punk ER 10
vs Punk OTL 10
vs Punk CP 11

vs Cena RAW 11

Rey is such a consistent mother fucker that you could put on anything he has ever done and it would probably be average at the very worst. Let's not forget his multi man Elimination Chamber performances either in which he has consistently ruled for quite some time. 

The most consistent performer in WWF/WWE history arguably.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't recall the match against DOLPH, but I can only imagine how good it is. Good call on the Punk series. I knew they had a feud, but didn't recall enough about the matches themselves to comment.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

nobody mentioned Mysterio/Punk at Armageddon in that IC title shot opportunity.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget Rey in Rumble matches too. Guy is a GOAT at doing false eliminations. His WWE run alone can probably rival most top guys in their absolute prime/best years. He's probably on par with a guy like Flair even when it comes to ***+ matches in his career.

Up to Savage/Flair WM 8 match now. Only seen it once before (same with Bret/Piper earlier in the night) and that was when I was doing the WWF/E Poll a few years ago.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

How the fuck did I forget the Punk matches at Over The Limit Capitol Punishment??? Those would be near the top of the list.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rey in '09 Rumble was so epic. Guy was constantly hanging off somewhere.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret-Piper and Savage-Flair eh ?

Not like those are decent matches or anything :flair3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They were no HHH/Undertaker KOTR 02 that's for sure 8*D.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> They were no HHH/Undertaker KOTR 02 that's for sure 8*D.


Now _that's_ a classic. Probably the best match either men ever had!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker-HHH KOTR 2002 wishes it was Rosie O' Donnell vs Donald Trump from RAW 2007. It's only fitting to watch the DONALD'S performance in that one to know why he's a credible Hall of Famer.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


>


My mistake lol. The SHIELD Raw match was so good I feel like I should have paid for it. 

MOTY - SHIELD vs. Super Friends

TV MOTY - SHIELD vs. Jericho Friends


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Re-watched Shield/Jericho-Ryback-Sheamus and it still holds up as my MOTY (and thus TV MOTY as well). ****1/4. Still have to re-watch Shield/Superbuds from EC, especially since a lot are still calling it MOTY. Maybe I missed something in it as it would only be the third best match of the night to me right now. I have to actually find the match online though. If anyone has a link, preferably to a youtube/dailymotion vid (I hate having to download matches), I'll give it a watch within the next hour.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 8 reminds me of WM 21. First half is really good, second half is trash lol. WM 7 is better for sure, despite having like 6 extra matches to give time to.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> I have to actually find the match online though. If anyone has a link, preferably to a youtube/dailymotion vid (I hate having to download matches), I'll give it a watch within the next hour.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

The Shield vs. Jericho match was good but the weaker of all their matches. Cena vs. Punk are better than the two.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Think anybody can guess my top 10 in perfect order ?
> 
> .. and THANKS GUYS :brock.


Ill give it go. 

1. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin Wm13
2. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart Wm10
3. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Wm25
4. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit Wm20
5. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Wm26
6. Triple H vs Undertaker Wm27
7. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels Wm23
8. Randy Savage vs Ric Flair Wm8
9. Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper Wm8
10. Steve Austin vs The Rock Wm19


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*Punk/Cena* was good... and that's it. Not even close to greatness. The crowd was awesome. Punk was awesome too, he really sold the importance of the match, you could feel he wrestled for the WM main event spot. Cena, on the other hand, fuck him. The worst seller in the industry, worse than fucking Teddy Hart. It's sad, because Cena is a guy capable of having five star matches. When he's motivated. Too bad he's motivated only once-twice every year. He no-sold Punk's few signature moves, including the Running Knee, and not once, but TWICE! Same people who bash indy wrestling for "no sell bitch" doctrine, they praise Cena. Nice. Because, Cena's much worse. And the finishing stretch was just a collection of moves and kickouts. I repeat, Punk was great in the match, but Cena was awful.

*****


Someone link me the Shield matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm going to watch Shield vs blah blah blah at EC. I didn't really enjoy it much initially. Then again, when you're watching on a shitty, lagging stream.....

I enjoyed the heck out of the match on RAW. Freaking Evolution tag epic!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Only thing I didn't like about that match is that Cena took FAR too much punishment to the head yet kicked out of it all. 2 GTS's, 2 running high knees, going head first into the steel post, and a Piledriver. And he kicked out of all that? Seriously?

Yes, it's Wrestling and I need to tone down my sense of believability, but I found that to be too much. There should still be a little realism involved in wrestling. Still a great match however, ★★★★


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Amazing match. While Cena can't pull hurricanranas off that well, he can pull it off better than most men his size. I mean fuck, that leap was on some next level shit. Props to him on that one.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm gonna rewind back to 2011 and rewatch every single match between Randy Orton and Christian. 

How would you all rate all their matches in 2011? I believe they had 4? If not 4 pretty sure it's 5.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I'm gonna rewind back to 2011 and rewatch every single match between Randy Orton and Christian.
> 
> How would you all rate all their matches in 2011? I believe they had 4? If not 4 pretty sure it's 5.


Over The Limit - *****1/2*
Capitol Punishment -*****1/4*
MITB - ****1/2*
Summerslam *****1/2*

There's also the match they had on Smackdown which Christian lost the title 2 days after losing it, which I hate for obvious reasons, and they also had a decent steel cage on Smackdown to end their feud. Can't remember too much of that match though.

So 6 notable matches in their feud.

Awful feud that produced great matches. Only one I've watched since then is their MITB match, as I have the MITB DVD, really wanted to see their OTL and Summerslam matches again though.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Over The Limit - ****1/2
SummerSlam - ****1/4
MITB - ***3/4
Capitol Punishment - ***1/2


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

From what I remember Christian vs Orton at summerslam was 2 nd best match of the year


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

For Orton/Christian

Smackdown I: ****
OTL: ****1/4
Capitol Punishment: ***1/2
MITB: ****
Summerslam: ****3/4 :mark:
Smackdown II: ****

Now quick, best RAW 2004 matches? Dates too please!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Trish Stratus v Lita - RAW, 12/6/04
Randy Orton v Chris Jericho - RAW, 7/5/04
Randy Orton v Chris Benoit - RAW, 8/16/04
Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair v Chris Benoit, Edge & Chris Jericho (Elimination Match) - RAW, 6/16/04
HHH v Chris Benoit (Ironman Match) - RAW, 7/26/04
Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit - RAW, 5/3/04
Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin v HHH, Ric Flair, Randy Orton & Batista - RAW, 4/12/04

There's also a Kane/Benoit match that's really fucking good too, but for some reason wasn't in the text document with the rest of these matches. And another HBK/Benoit match. And a pretty boss Flair/Benoit match too.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Randy Orton vs Christian PPV Series

Over the Limit : ***** 1/2* :mark: :mark: :mark:
Capitol Punishment : **** 3/4*
Money in the Bank : **** 1/2*
Summerslam : ***** 1/4*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Flair/Benoit from 9/2/2004 is absolutely awesome. Other highly recommended matches from me are Randy Orton vs Edge from 16/7 and 13/12.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Trish Stratus v Lita - RAW, 12/6/04
> Randy Orton v Chris Jericho - RAW, 7/5/04
> Randy Orton v Chris Benoit - RAW, 8/16/04
> Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair v Chris Benoit, Edge & Chris Jericho (Elimination Match) - RAW, 6/16/04
> ...


Sweet thank you, probably going to download those tomorrow, or maybe every 2004 RAW, WHO KNOWS!?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I remember that Lita/Trish match, it main evented RAW at the time. Let me say that again, a Women's match MAIN EVENTED a RAW. Just showed how much they cared about the division back then, compared to now. The divas would never main event today. When you gave the women proper storylines and decent length matches, people actually cared, it's no wonder why no one gives a shit about the division today.

Video of that match:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Fuck Cena's lack of selling in the match, but I still thought it was great. Both brought it, just as expected from them. Their chemistry together is definitely some of the greatest we've ever seen. ****

Still, I didn't want to believe it but we're actually getting the worst 'Mania card possible using Rock, Brock, Punk, Cena, Haitch and Undertaker. Astonishing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Thought Cena/Punk was comfortably better than Shield/Team Jericho and slightly better than Shield/Team Cena. I'll re-watch all of them in due time. 

About Cena's selling in the Punk match, I'll have to take a closer look at it. I did think there were a couple times he completely no sold Punk's offense but shit man it's pro wrestling and none of it bothered me. Came off as pure adrenaline and will to make it to the Wrestlemania main event than a case of making his opponent look like shit by not taking the time to sell. I was fine with it on first watch.

Also Cena's rana, while quite sloppy, was a great spot. It played into the whole story of how they knew each other so well and it was going to take something special/different to get the win. Worked nicely as a surprise setup spot to catch Punk with the AA.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> Sweet thank you, probably going to download those tomorrow, or maybe every 2004 RAW, WHO KNOWS!?


You should. There's some trash involving Eugene and the diva search but other than that, you will get a mix of great matches and entertaining TV stuff that today's garbage can't match 1/10th of.

EDIT: Orton/Christian series

Smackdown 5/5/2011 - ★★★★
Over the Limit - ★★★★½
Capitol Punishment - ★★★½
Money in the Bank - ★★★½
SummerSlam - ★★★★¼
Steel Cage - ★★★★


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So here's the deal ;

I'm back in campus and my DVD collection is home, and I won't be able to get to WAL MART to pick up another few DVDs tomorrow so I'm resurrecting a six month old project ; Re-ranking Cal & Company's top 100 WWF/WWE matche ever ! I've got a TON of it done but there's also a ton of shit I can't find. Should be two or three weeks until it's all done but I'll hold off until after Mania to release it. 

I've got a few hours to kill and I need hook ups to these matches PLZ .

Slaughter-Sheik Bootcamp MSG 84
Backlund-Valentine MSG 79
Backlund-Adonis MSG 82
Backlund-Patera MSG 80 (Death)
Rockers-Brainbusters MSG 1 23 89
Christian-Swagger ECW 2/24/09
Finlay-Benoit SD 5/5/06 

Those are the only matches that I don't own on DVD @ the moment. Hook ups ? HOLLA IF YA HEAR ME. 10-6 on MAH COUNTDOWN COMING UP, then 5-3 tomorrow afternoon and the top two tomorrow @ Midnight :mark: :mark


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Any top matches in Smackdown 2004? I know it wasn't a great year compared to RAW 2004 but there must be some matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Any top matches in Smackdown 2004? I know it wasn't a great year compared to RAW 2004 but there must be some matches.


Off the top of my head, I can only really think of Undertaker vs Cena from 24/6 and the cage match with Eddie and JBL. There was also a good 2 out of 3 falls match between Angle and Eddie IIRC.



KingOfKings said:


> So here's the deal ;
> 
> I'm back in campus and my DVD collection is home, and I won't be able to get to WAL MART to pick up another few DVDs tomorrow so I'm resurrecting a six month old project ; Re-ranking Cal & Company's top 100 WWF/WWE matche ever ! I've got a TON of it done but there's also a ton of shit I can't find. Should be two or three weeks until it's all done but I'll hold off until after Mania to release it.
> 
> Those are the only matches that I don't own on DVD @ the moment. Hook ups ? HOLLA IF YA HEAR ME. 10-6 on MAH COUNTDOWN COMING UP, then 5-3 tomorrow afternoon and the top two tomorrow @ Midnight :mark: :mark:


My week off school is unfortunately over now so I wont have as much spare time but if you need it, I'll try uploading Benoit/Finlay to youtube in the weekend. (or hell, maybe even tomorrow!)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Orton vs. Christian: The Epic Saga*

Smackdown 5/6 - *** 1/4 (no idea why this is rated so high)
Over The Limit - **** 1/4 (best of their encounters, top 5 MOTYC from 2011)
Capitol Punishment - *** 1/2
Money In The Bank - *** 1/4 - *** 3/4 (somewhere in that range, all I remember is the finish and Orton's reaction)
Summerslam - *** 3/4 (it's a great match no doubt but I can't rate it past **** considering Christian was BURIED in the late minutes)
Smackdown Steel Cage - *** 3/4 (among the MANY great TV matches in 2011)


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Been so many matches where a wrestler is down by a 9 count only to use his spirit to rise up and enter the ring before the match ends. It was done at WrestleMania 25 in the match everyone creams over. So if it was a problem tonight, it was a problem then.


I generally think that when a guy is going to get in immediately after the 9 count, he should start moving sooner instead of looking dead for 9 seconds and randomly getting up and running into the ring as if nothing happened. It's just silly. And yeah, I'll criticize that for any match... but it doesn't necessarily mean I'll dislike the match because of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two more down. *Jericho vs. Bryan* from RAW 2/11 was a fun match wrestled at a blistering pace, but nothing too special. Jericho might've won but Bryan stole the show with all the kicks and counters. Probably go ***** for it. These two need a bigger stage and more time to tear the house down.

*Sheamus vs. Ziggler *from Main Event is long as balls, but really great. 25 minute war of attrition loaded with some great counters from Ziggy, Sheamus doing his best TNA Hernandez impersonation by pulling himself up the ropes, and an absolutely BEAUTIFUL missile dropkick from Dolph. Good stuff for sure and I loved all of AJ's reactions. **** 3/4*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Smackdown 2004? hmmm (btw where is the smiley for that? You know the one that conveys deep concentration?) 

There's Rey Mysterio vs Tajiri which I believe took place on the first SD of the year. Then there's Cena/Taker. They had 2 matches that year.

Hey, I see we're going the Orton/Christian series. Funny enough, i re-watched the entire series the other day.

Orton/Christian SD ***1/2
Orton/Christian OTL ****
Orton/Christian CP ***3/4
Orton/Christian MITB ***3/4
Orton/Christian Summerslam ****1/2 (my personal favourite, duh!)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Would be much appreciated C2D unk.

So I'm starting at the beginning of BROCK LESNAR'S career and rating all of his matches from the beginning of his career to now. I've been meaning to do this for a year now and I'm going to do a bit at a time until I eventually finish. Just watched/reviewed his first four matches and BAH GOD BROCK has the best squashes of all time and it isn't even close. :lol @ people chanting "Goldberg" at Lesnar in his first few matches until he shows his athletic prowess and shuts the crowd up. He looks so fucking intimidating (unlike Ryback) while Heyman is GOAT on the outside.

Going to drop some reviews every now and then about this, consider this and the re-ranking of the top 100 to be my official "side projects" that I pick up whenever I'm not at anything else / when I don't have any new DVDs to watch. Everybody should do this as it makes WRASSLIN' even funner .


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

So have a lofty goal for myself. Have been a lifelong HBK fan, but just realized how many of his matches I haven't actually seen. So gonna try to go through all of his matches. Gonna obviously take awhile to do, but feel really motivated to get through this and catch a lot of things i've missed over the years. Thanks KOK, as your post about Lesnar was some motivation behind me doing this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I mean, even if it's watching a match every few days or one match a day or whenever you're up to it, going on a binge like I'm doing right now, it's going to be fun regardless if you don't make it a CHORE. This is something I've always wanted to do and it's fairly straightforward since I have the full list of televised/PPV/Japan BROCK matches and they're all easy to track down and download or stream so it's all good.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

You get your list from Pro Fight DB? Seems pretty thorough and has mostly everything. Has 573 matches for HBK, holy hell.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Also, I am anticipating being snowed in this weekend, so I need a ton of fun matches that I may have missed on TV, preferably 2004-now, so yea, SNOW :cena3


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, Punk/Cena is MOTY so far. ****** material. The count-out spot kind of blew but meh, it'd be silly to let that of all things bother me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I remember that Lita/Trish match, it main evented RAW at the time. Let me say that again, a Women's match MAIN EVENTED a RAW. Just showed how much they cared about the division back then, compared to now. The divas would never main event today. When you gave the women proper storylines and decent length matches, people actually cared, it's no wonder why no one gives a shit about the division today.
> 
> Video of that match:


JR sold the hell out of that match just as hard as he would sell Austin or Rock or Triple H or Undertaker or whomever. Cool match, but JR made it that much better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JR during Triple H vs Booker T @ Wrestlemania is GAWD.

Just downloaded an entire episode of RAW to watch a two minute squash match. An AWESOME two minute squash match, but a two minute squash match nonetheless .


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

^ There is something about that 'Mania XIX match that makes it one of my favorite World Title matches.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

There's a lot of love for Smackdown 2009 on here, I missed a lot of it and I'm tempted to get the Best of Smackdown 2009/2010 blu ray...should I get it? Or would I be better served to download a pack?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Walter Sobchak said:


> There's a lot of love for Smackdown 2009 on here, I missed a lot of it and I'm tempted to get the Best of Smackdown 2009/2010 blu ray...should I get it? Or would I be better served to download a pack?


Well, in my personal opinion it's a whole bunch of average . Only standout matches are Punk/Taker in 2010 and the Rey/Swagger No DQ match. It's not a bad set by any means, just a whole lot of forgettable stuff. I'd pass on it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

These BROCK matches are so much GOD DAMN FUN. I'm up to KOTR 2002 already and I've already uncovered a bunch of fun squashes, tags, and a GREAT five minute big man sprint between BROCK and Bubba Ray Dudley.

WATCH THAT MATCH, I'll post a bunch of in depth reviews at some point when I get more and more in this (THE REVIEWS ARE DONE BY THE WAY).


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Finally raw has aired here in Australia. 

What an amazing match, Cena and Punks chemistry is absolutely insane. I loved all of it Cenas powerbomb and Punks piledriver :mark: were awesome. As much as I love the Shield vs Superheroes and Shield vs Jericho and friends this is my MOTY. One of the best TV matches in a long time. Bring on Cena/Rock II :mark: :mark: :mark: 

Hell can't think of a match that will be on the WM card, that I will be excited for.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Nostalgia said:


> I remember that Lita/Trish match, it main evented RAW at the time. Let me say that again, a Women's match MAIN EVENTED a RAW. Just showed how much they cared about the division back then, compared to now. The divas would never main event today. When you gave the women proper storylines and decent length matches, people actually cared, it's no wonder why no one gives a shit about the division today.
> 
> Video of that match:


In all fairness, they only ever cared about Trish & Lita, not the "Diva's division".

After Mania 20: 
- Molly Holly was left to absolutely nothing until being released.
- Victoria (the champ coming out of Mania) floundered along, eventually getting paired with Stevie Richards in drag, before being released.
- Jacqueline was involved in joke-feud with Chavo that went nowhere.
- Sable disappeared
- Stacy Keibler, Torrie Wilson & Miss Jackie were just T&A and were lacking in-ring when compared to most of the current diva's.

Worst of all, they launched the Diva search. Yes, they were getting fresh faces into the division, but they didn't care at all how talented they would be (and weakening the overall strength of the division too, especially after releasing Molly & Victoria).


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Isn't there a Harlem Hangover in that Mania match?


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I never ended up giving my rating for the Punk/Cena match from Raw, all I did was argue with people who said that the match was bad. I know it's all personal preference with wrestling but some of the reasons given were just stupid. I was very surprised to see what people said in that thread.

So anyway, I thought it was fantastic, I'd give it at least ****1/2. Just a great match and the little things that people mentioned that made it bad had little bearing on my thoughts on the match. I'm not going to drop a whole point just because Cena's hurricanrana didn't look very good. Or because Taker didn't show up. Even knowing who was going to win didn't affect my opinion on it, because IMO that doesn't matter.

It's the best TV match I've ever seen I think, and I wonder how long it will be until we get another match like that on Raw. This was far better than their Raw 1000 match, as they got more time and there was a clean finish. It was just great, it's probably already TV MOTY and will be a very serious contender for overall MOTY.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Walter Sobchak said:


> There's a lot of love for Smackdown 2009 on here, I missed a lot of it and I'm tempted to get the Best of Smackdown 2009/2010 blu ray...should I get it? Or would I be better served to download a pack?


Like someone said: it's not a must buy, but Punk/Taker and Rey/HBK (bluray only) are fantastic. 



In another subject, I just saw a fun triple threat i didn't know :
the battle of the part-timers(!!): HHH vs Lesnar vs The rock(c). WWE title match in Australia (global warning 2002)

Lesnar is excellent, HHH and Rocky are okay in it. Crowd is amazing. Fun fact 10 years ago Lesnar was already not selling Dat Pedigree.

Note: Lesnar Bluray (enhanced edition) is awesome. I don't have the regular version.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Posted the same thoughts in the MOTYC thread. For those who don't venture over there, I'll post my two cents in here:


*WWE Monday Night RAW 2/25/13​*
John Cena vs CM Punk ~ ****​
I was a knucklehead. I enjoyed this match on the first go. Upon a second time I now love this match. Maybe I focused a bit more or something, but all previous "flaws" were put to rest. _(only one; thinking the weardown phases was meaningless when it 100% wasn't. Great use of the headlock/focusing the attack on the head & neck area of Cena.)_ Story was completely in tact here. I know it is hard to buy Cena as an underdog. Which is perfectly understandable. However, vs Punk in a big match situation it does fit. That's been the story of their main event feud. Punk always survived. Cena never could figure him out. Only time he had was via interference. Never by his own forces. And John knows the facts. I can't quite add anything too fresh that hasn't been said by so many already so I'll try and scrape what I can atm. Influx of new moves was gold. I always appreciated the trait of keeping their matches fresh. Liger Bomb by Cena. What?! Wonderful. PILEDRIVER by Punker? Excellent! Real "mark out" moments for me. Huracanrana spot was top notch. Not the execution of course. The point behind it. Cena busted out something he's used about once in his career. He finally threw Punk off his game. Cena capitalized and finally thwarted Punk in a big match situation all on his own. Now, on the point of selling. There was absolutely zero negatives with anything form of selling by Cena. Not once. His head & neck was the damaged point. Nowhere else was sore. He takes two brutal knees to the face. Ate them completely. What some didn't seem to notice was how each time he countered following them, were used as a rapid bust of adrenaline to hit something out of desperation. It wasn't a blatant attempt at no-selling because he's "SUPER CENA". Not at all. I can't even see the logic behind that mindset. Both men were great in this. I made the point last night and it still stands after the second watch: Punk & Cena both always make these matches. They're always constantly back and forth. Feed off the ebb & flow of every encounter. A drop in the bucket here. Only with something different to separate it from the pack. That's the sign of a great series of matches. A great, awesome chemistry among these guys. It hasn't failed yet. Nor would I ever think it will. Stellar match. Not for TV. In general. That's what you want to see when a match is billed as "big".


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Which would you guys rate as the better HIAC match:

Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 OR Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 OR Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002
Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 OR Triple H/HBK 2004


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Which would you guys rate as the better HIAC match:
> 
> Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 OR Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
> Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 OR Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002
> Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 OR Triple H/HBK 2004


Undertaker vs Orton in a landslide. I don't care for Undertaker vs Batista HIAC.

This one was tough. Undertaker vs Lesnar wins by a hair. Both are two of the best matches under this gimmick. Easy top 5 for me. If not top 3 granted I'm a lifelong mark for Undertaker vs Foley.

H vs Nash. I don't loathe the Bad Blood 2004 match like others. I dig H vs Nash for what it was, so another fairly easy decision here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Which would you guys rate as the better HIAC match:
> 
> *Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 *OR Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
> Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 OR Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002
> *Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003* OR Triple H/HBK 2004


Bolded = my favorite.

I hust cannot decide on Taker/Lesnar and Batista/HHH, just both fucking fantastic


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

rey vs ultimo dragon from spring stampede 1997 is pretty good :mark:. i fell asleep after that and missed the rest lol


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Posted the same thoughts in the MOTYC thread. For those who don't venture over there, I'll post my two cents in here:
> 
> 
> *WWE Monday Night RAW 2/25/13​*
> ...


Great review, I feel like the exact same about the no selling nonsense. The way they can keep all their encounters fresh is amazing, there chemistry is some of the best WWE has seen. I think I'm gonna throw ***** 1/4* and make it my MOTY so far. 

On the Hell in a Cell debate my choices are: 

Undertaker vs Randy Orton 
Batista vs Triple H
Shawn Michaels vs Triple H 

I didn't enjoy the Taker/Batista Hiac nor am I a big fan of the Taker/Orton just I found less things I hated towards that match. Both Batista/HHH and Taker/Lesnar are awesome matches, just Batista/HHH is one of my favourites. I would be one in the minority who actually likes HBK/HHH so that was an easy choice, not saying its a great match because its not I just enjoy watching it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005* OR Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 OR *Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002*
*Triple H/Kevin Nash* at Badd Blood 2003 OR Triple H/HBK 2004

 and some STARS

Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 ****1/2
Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007 ****1/4
Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 ****1/2
Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 ****3/4
Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 ***1/4
Triple H/HBK 2004 **3/4


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm not fond of HIAC matches except Vengeance 2005 and the last year's WrestleMania End of an Era epic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 ****1/2
Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007 ****1/4
Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 ****3/4
Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 ****3/4
Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 ***1/2
Triple H/HBK 2004 - No idea lol, aint watched it in years tbh. I cant honestly remember it.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

A couple of years ago, I had Undertaker/Lesnar at about ****3/4. Loved it. Then I rewatched it about a year later, so about 1-2 years ago. It fell down pretty hard, think I had it about ***3/4-****. There was something that didn't click the second time around. Haven't seen Triple H/Batista in 4-5 years.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Man i really don't want to see Taker/Punk after 3 losses in a row from Rock and Cena.I would love to see Taker,Orton and Sheamus vs The Shield more than Taker/Punk.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> rey vs ultimo dragon from spring stampede 1997 is pretty good :mark:. i fell asleep after that and missed the rest lol


b/c the rest is horrible till the main event. :lol



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Great review, I feel like the exact same about the no selling nonsense. The way they can keep all their encounters fresh is amazing, there chemistry is some of the best WWE has seen. I think I'm gonna throw ***** 1/4* and make it my MOTY so far.


Cena's selling was fine. Good, even. I don't see how there were moments he could have or should have sold "better". Keeping the tempo up following the knee strikes was fun. It showed how both men weren't going to slow down in their pursuit to headline WrestleMania. Great match. Probably takes a backseat - or ties - with the 6 man from Elimination Chamber for me as the current WWE MOTY.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 OR Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
> Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 OR Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002
> Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 OR Triple H/HBK 2004


Undertaker/Orton or *Undertaker/Batista*
Batista/Triple H or *Undertaker/Lesnar*
*Triple H/Kevin Nash* or Triple H/HBK

Taker's match with Batista just pushes out Orton's. Tough choice though. And I think that Bad Blood 03 match between HHH and Nash is underrated. Solid fun. Plus, Foley as special guest referee = (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> b/c the rest is horrible till the main event. :lol
> 
> 
> 
> Cena's selling was fine. Good, even. I don't see how there were moments he could have or should have sold "better". Keeping the tempo up following the knee strikes was fun. It showed how both men weren't going to slow down in their pursuit to headline WrestleMania. Great match. Probably takes a backseat - or ties - with the 6 man from Elimination Chamber for me as the current WWE MOTY.


which 97 PPV shiould I watch from WCW? with ratings


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ratings are in the slim pickings area for me atm. However, Bash at the Beach is my favorite from the year so that one will always get a nod.

Others:
Halloween Havoc (4 matches rule. Maybe you'll like Flair/Hennig & Luger/Hall)
Slamboree (My memory has this as a solid show overall. About to watch soon so I'll be more caught up to speed in a jiffy.)
Fall Brawl (hell, it's worth it just for the opener.)
SuperBrawl VII (It rounds out pretty well. Main event is laughable. It's a given, of course.)
Great American Bash (Another mixed bag. It does have some matches worth a look.)

That's the better half of the year I'd say.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

might watch havoc. luger/hall sounds good :mark:


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

Anyone got the new Bret Hart dvd, heard it was out early, just want to know initial thoughts on it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Which would you guys rate as the better HIAC match:
> 
> Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 OR Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
> Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 OR Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002
> Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 OR Triple H/HBK 2004


Taker/Orton over Taker/Batista slightly
Taker/Lesnar over Batista/HHH fairly easily
HBK/HHH over Nash/HHH easily.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Arnold Tricky said:


>


Does this include what happened during the commercial breaks? Seems so given the length. I like that WWE has been doing this with their big TV matches. They did it with Punk/Jericho too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed it does.

It was done with Jericho vs Punker too? I might have to go watch it again ASAP.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Time for WM 9. Never watched the event in full before because... I could never be fucking arsed. A few years ago it would always be brought up as one of the worst ever... then randomly people started calling it underrated and a good event. I ain't going into it expecting much based on the card. Can't wait to get all these early WM's out of the way so I can get into some of the better ones. Roll on WM 17 onwards where they were usually good shows all round for the most part (until we get to the last couple of years lol).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The event has Bob Backlund AND heel Doink on it.

It's good via proxy.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

robertdeniro said:


> Man i really don't want to see Taker/Punk *after 3 losses in a row from Rock and Cena.*I would love to see Taker,Orton and Sheamus vs The Shield more than Taker/Punk.


None of those things will matter on that night if/when Taker and Punk tear the house down at Metlife.


I agree with Punk/Cena @ **** and my current 2013 MOTY. Fantastic review tbhayley!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Punk vs Undertaker has to be set in stone now. Once he dropped the word "Immortal" in his promo. I knew right then and there it had to be the lead in for Undertaker to show up next week. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Which would you guys rate as the better HIAC match:
> 
> Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 OR Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
> Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 OR Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002
> Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 OR Triple H/HBK 2004


Undertaker vs Orton (★★★★½)
Batista vs Triple H (★★★★¾)
Damn, that third one is hard because I hate both matches. I guess I go with Trips vs Nash automatically because it's shorter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Taker is the match to finally get me excited for WM. Don't give a fuck if Punk doesn't look "credible" or if the feud isn't deep and meaningful... the match will most likely be great and a strong contender for MOTN/MOTY no doubt as well. Undertaker is the master of storytelling in WWE and Punk can play up his heel character tremendously and I see them working one hell of a fucking match. Cena/Rock doesn't have a chance in hell of being good in all honestly. Rock is at his absolute worst, and Cena doesn't seem to give a shit unless he's working with Punk these days. HHH/Lesnar could be the sleeper match, which is weird to say because I love their SS match... but holy fuck I just don't want to see it again lol. All depends on what they do this time around.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Took its time, but I got through Wrestlemania 2. The first half of the show, it was the worst thing I've ever witnessed. Nothing was redeeming, all

Don Muraco vs Paul Orndorff
Forgot the match had existed very quickly. 1/2*

George Steele vs Randy Savage
Bit too short to really be worth anything. Savage played the underdog very well, but they did nothing special at all with the match. Just very generic. *1/4

Jake Roberts vs George Wells
Blinked, and forgot anything that happened. Dud.

Roddy Piper vs Mr. T
Not a match. But it was alright, can't rate a boxing match, though.

Fabulous Moolah vs Velvet McIntyre
-

Ivan Koloff vs Corporal Kirchoff
-

Battle Royal
*

British Bulldogs vs Beefcake/Valentine
A match that wasn't below par and rushed, finally. **1/4

Ricky Steamboat vs Hercules
*3/4

Adrian Adonis vs Uncle Elmo
This, from the start, looks like the worst thing I'm about to ever watch. There can be no redeeming thing about this match. A cross dresser against a hillbilly. Something about ripping the dress off, stuck in the ropes. Adonis dancing out of the dress, covered in make-up. Dud, dud, dud, dud, dud.

Tito Santana/Junkyard Dog vs the Funk Bros
The selling by Terry Funk is beautiful. Made the match look enthralling. Haven't seen him much, probably the last time was his match with Flair at Clash in 89. Liked Dory's offensive. **1/2. Santana and Junkyard weren't too impressive, imo. All about the Funks.

Hulk Hogan vs King Kong Bundy
Given more time, I think this could of been a great match. Just a basic steel cage match really. They kept up to a nice pace, their offence fitted, and I liked the way they played out the attempt escapes. Just a pity it was rather short. **1/4 Weirdly, I enjoyed the match.

A chore to watch, but the final 4 matches had redeemed it. Onto Wrestlemania 3.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Punk/Taker is the match to finally get me excited for WM. Don't give a fuck if Punk doesn't look "credible" or if the feud isn't deep and meaningful... the match will most likely be great and a strong contender for MOTN/MOTY no doubt as well. Undertaker is the master of storytelling in WWE and Punk can play up his heel character tremendously and I see them working one hell of a fucking match. Cena/Rock doesn't have a chance in hell of being good in all honestly. Rock is at his absolute worst, and Cena doesn't seem to give a shit unless he's working with Punk these days. HHH/Lesnar could be the sleeper match, which is weird to say because I love their SS match... but holy fuck I just don't want to see it again lol. All depends on what they do this time around.




Punk/Taker will steal the show no doubt. I actually think Del Rio/swagger if given the time can put on a good match as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Punk/Taker is the match to finally get me excited for WM. Don't give a fuck if Punk doesn't look "credible" or if the feud isn't deep and meaningful... the match will most likely be great and a strong contender for MOTN/MOTY no doubt as well. Undertaker is the master of storytelling in WWE and Punk can play up his heel character tremendously and I see them working one hell of a fucking match. Cena/Rock doesn't have a chance in hell of being good in all honestly. Rock is at his absolute worst, and Cena doesn't seem to give a shit unless he's working with Punk these days. HHH/Lesnar could be the sleeper match, which is weird to say because I love their SS match... but holy fuck I just don't want to see it again lol. All depends on what they do this time around.


Did I write this? :hayley3

CAL (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 2 is indeed awful. AWFUL. WM III isn't a classic event, but compared to some of those other early WM shows its a masterpiece.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, and Adrian Adonis owns. As does the Funks vs Tito/JYD tag. 

That is all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hated how Adonis ended up in WWF. Guy was so fucking talented. So they put him in drag. Nice work Vince.

Terry is the ONLY good thing in that tag match. And he's a big part of it too so it turns out quite good overall. TERRY FUCKING FUNK. Anyone know why they renamed Dory and called his Hoss?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

With the Santana/JYD vs Funks match, at one point, I was like, oh, alright, Funks, this should be good. Santana and Junkyard had their offence, faded out my interest.Then I saw that Terry was bumping around and selling the offence superbly. Totally brought life into the match. If it had been anyone else, guarantee I wouldn't of enjoyed it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Taker would be a great match to see, but with a predictable ending.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I actually expect Lesnar/HHH to be the show-stealer. Most people are against it just like they were with HHH/Taker III (before HIAC stipulation was announced) and then the match ended up being the highlight of the night.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As Jim Cornette would say: You may know the destination but you don't know the journey, so shut up and enjoy the ride!

Every Undertaker WM match is predictable. HHH was never ending the streak. Neither was Shawn. Sure as hell not Edge or Batista. None of that matters to me as long as they put on a great match, and its even better if you can convince yourself after a certain move/spot that it COULD end (SCM at WM 25, HHH Tombstone at WM 27, SCM + Pedigree at WM 28).


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I think that Lesnar/HHH would be a show-stealer only if it would be a blood bath. Street Fight or HiaC match would do that


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I actually expect Lesnar/HHH to be the show-stealer. Most people are against it just like they were with HHH/Taker III (before HIAC stipulation was announced) and then the match ended up being the highlight of the night.


We are against it due to the shit they gave us at Summerslam. 

I'm willing to give them another go though to go all out to entertain now that it's Wrestlemania. Although I do feel they really should have given Brock either Taker or Rock as opposed to Triple H again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stupid question, but my brain is currently distracted by something. What's the move called where a guy flapjacks someone so they land throat first onto the ropes? :lmao


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H will be fine as long as its stipulated. Just have them hit each other with chairs, knees, punches and hammers for a good 15-20 minutes and I am sold.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena/Taker would definitely NOT be predicable.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Big Z said:


> Stupid question, but my brain is currently distracted by something. What's the move called where a guy flapjacks someone so they land throat first onto the ropes? :lmao


Hotshot?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

sharkboy22 said:


> Hotshot?


There we go! How my brain couldn't remember that I'll never know .


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

The last time I legitimately believed the streak could end was Mania 21. I don't think the threat even matters at this point.

All that I care about is watching a good Taker match at Mania, and Punk is the guy to do that. They had a few sparks in 2009 and without the restriction of backstage bullshit, in addition to Punk's growth as a performer; I think it's got the chance of being every bit as good as 26/7/8.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

El Cuñado said:


> The last time I legitimately believed the streak could end was Mania 21. I don't think the threat even matters at this point.


I agree. Even tough Takers matches with HBK and HHH were great, I personally didn't think the streak was in any danger of ending. Even with the false finishes in the HBK matches and the Tombstone by HHH. So even though Punk isn't necessarily a 'threat', that doesn't mean people won't be interested in the feud and the match itself. It should be a great match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HO-LY FUCK. THAT reversal in the Steiners/Head Shrinkers tag match at WM 9. WOW.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, go find the match and watch it. You'll KNOW IT when you see it.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Takers retirement match will obviously be at wrestlemania. I honestly think he'll put someone over. Taker has always been a respectful and a great "business man". I can't think of a better way of passing the torch then having someone end the streak.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Taker losing would create such a surreal "WTF DID TAKER JUST GET PINNED AT MANIA?!?" moment that it's almost enough to sway me towards thinking that it's a good idea. 

I don't however. Primarily because it'll take the shine off of the legacy, and you can't trust anyone that would benefit from it. Main-eventers don't need it and young-uns could bolt for the door like Brock. 

Additionally, I'm not convinced that it would really have any long-lasting effect. Especially in 2013 where it's always "what have you done for me lately?" It would just end up being another notch on the bedpost after six months.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Man, i really wanna watch some matches today but I've wasted the entire morning doing absolutely nothing thus far and I got a shit load of assignments due next week that I haven't finished yet plus a mid-term tomorrow. 

I'm going to look to finish shit up and when I'm done I have got to check out what apparently seems to be a Shawn Michaels match from JAPAN! Wtf, how the heck did Shawn work Japan in '92 if he was under WWE contract? Or was he? OI wonder if I can even find it since it took place on a house show?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Contracts were much different in the 90's than they are now.

Go hear Mick Foley's original WWF deal back on a rountable discussion about the Monday Night Wars. He was only booked/guaranteed pay for 6 weeks. Contracts weren't quite under lock and key to where they are in the current age.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE worked with Japan a number of times in the early 90's, including doing a big "super show". I think the Bret match from it is on his new DVD? Got a couple of house shows from that time period too.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I know I'm late with this rating but I don't care **** for Punk/Cena. Fantastic TV match and of course pure magic whenever these two are in the ring together. I kinda understand the criticism about the predictable finish but I swear, when Punk hit that piledriver I had to believe it was over, We haven't seen a legitimate piledriver in forever and the way Cole sold it made it look like Punk had beaten cena. Really sold the story of the match that these two guys are equals and can't beat each other.

This is tied for TV MOTY so far with the Shield/Ryback, Sheamus, Jericho match from Raw being TV MOTY also at ****


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Arnold Tricky said:


>


OH MY GOD FULL MATCH :mark: :mark: :mark:

I have totally ignored the legitimacy of a threat to Taker's streak for the past few years. The only person who ever had a hope of ending the streak was orton, because of his gimmick and how young he was and Taker's want to use the streak to make a new star. So the whole who is the most threatening to taker shouldn't be a factor anymore because nobody is ending the streak, not lesnar, not cena, nobody. 

The streak is now a spectacle match, and Punk and Taker will create a special match, MOTYC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Undertaker/Orton at Armageddon 2005 > Undertaker/Batista at Survivor Series 2007
Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 > Undertaker/Lesnar at No Mercy 2002
Triple H/Kevin Nash at Badd Blood 2003 < Triple H/HBK 2004

All three rated with the same ratings for me. ***** 1/4* for the first group, ***** 3/4* for the second group, and **** 1/2* for the third group. Choosing between HHH/Batista and Undertaker/Lesnar is like choosing between children for me (except I don't have any). They're literally neck and neck in my rankings and I just chose the one that was my favorite match as a child.

JESUS CHRIST CAL. I swear to god you read my mind with that post about this year's Wrestlemania matches a few pages back , as we share the exact same sentiments about Punk/Taker and the streak in general, loving BROCK/GAME and knowing the match will be good but not really being interested in the feud, and knowing that Rock is far below what he ever was (not that he was ever Bret Hart) and that Cena is complete nonsense at times we could be in for one of the worst Mania main events ever.

We get DVDs like three weeks early in the Wal Mart closest to campus (got BROCK'S DVD about five weeks before it's North American release, marked the fuck out), so I'm pretty sure if I wanted to grab a copy of the Dungeon Collection I could today, and since it's the DVD I've been the most excited for (sans Punk) in a while it looks like I might have to make a trip very soon.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I actually like the HHH/HBK hell in a cell match. It's not the greatest but it's not the worst either. I would rank it at ***1/4. I just disliked the length of the match (over 45 minutes is too long) and how they took ages to get up from finishers. I understand they selling the punishment of the match but it went for too long. The spots with the ladders, tables and steel steps were fun though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


>


Anyone know how to DL the video? I usually use Savevid but its not coming up, tried another site and the video length is too long


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

They did everything right in the Hunter/Michaels HIAC match, except it was too long and too slow for my liking. Technically, it's not bad at all, but it just fell flat. Probably around three stars.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KOK, I am in the process of uploading the whole SD episode with Finlay/BENOIT in it and you may have to be quick because those assholes may block the video. Will only give the link under the condition that you stop saying "The Roid". :rock4

Oh and anybody else realized that today, this thread becomes 1 YEAR OLD?

EDIT: Postponing to a couple of hours later because I'm tired and need some sleep right now.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> KOK, I am in the process of uploading the whole SD episode with Finlay/BENOIT in it and you may have to be quick because those assholes may block the video. Will only give the link under the condition that you stop saying "The Roid". :rock4


 What's your youtube account?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Anyone know how to DL the video? I usually use Savevid but its not coming up, tried another site and the video length is too long


I'm downloading it with a FF plugin called Download Helper . Was afraid it was gonna be a copy protected video that no program will download, but nope, 720p version downloading for me .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I'm downloading it with a FF plugin called Download Helper . Was afraid it was gonna be a copy protected video that no program will download, but nope, 720p version downloading for me .


Ah thx bud, i did have that extension plugin but deleted it cos i no longer used it, ill try that


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JESUS, we're on page 2000 for fuck sakes !

Thanks a million *C2D* , I've been watching a million BROCK matches as I hope to get up to Summerslam 2002 today and it's been super, super fun. I swear to god this guy is incapable of wrestling a bad match,(Goldberg match excluded) as I swear to god I'm almost four months into this guy's WWE campaign and he's just been tearing shit up every single time his music hits and he goes to the ring.

I'm not taking BROCK'S time with the company for granted honestly, so fucking thrilled that he's signed through XXXI as it looks like we can get some awesome fucking stuff from the guy. I'm assuming that from now until Mania XXXI we'll get another 9-10 matches from him (3 Wrestlemania matches, the rest being on other big shows such as Summerslam, Rumble, Survivor Series) and if so then he can add quite a few more awesome matches to his fantastic resume.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just started watching RAW 1997. First episode, Sid is doing an interview in the ring. Jim Ross says that at the Royal Rumble there will be 60,000 hometown fans cheering on their hero HBK. The crowd BOOS haha 

Sid is trying to heel it up but the fans are cheering him, and then HBK comes out to do colour commentary and gets booed!

I forgot that HBK got a lot of heat back in the day despite still being a face. For some reason I thought it was just at Survivor Series 1996 that he got heat.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret Hart said it best ;

"How can you appeal to teenage and adult males when you're gimmick is that you're a sexy boy who before his matches comes out and does a strip tease in the middle of the ring"

I wonder if HBK in Bret's top 1000 ? :HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SID got great reactions for most of his career regardless of whether or not he was a heel lol. He's just that awesome! If only he was good in the ring... .


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^Agreed, Sid was a badass. Sid in the ring with Hogan at the '92 Rumble was the first time I remember Hogan actually getting boos, and there was a clear "Sid" chant. So I immediately thought Sid was the master of the universe 

*KingOfKings*, that quote pretty much sums it up. On that first episode of 1997, when he comes out for commentary he gets on the table and starts dancing and taking his top off. fpalm


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I still have to complete the 1997 year. Started somewhere in July and last episode I watched was a RAW episode in 1997, just before a PPV show (some of the matches were the Patriot vs Bret Hart, Taker vs HBK and Goldust vs Brian Pillman). I watched Summerslam 1997 and thought it was a poor show. Goldust vs Pillman had a botched ending and so did HHH vs Mankind in the cage match. Despite the ending, the cage match was actually good. Taker - Bret and Austin - Hart were good matches too but the rest were poor. School is preventing me from watching these 1997 shows which is a shame because I want to watch the AE years. Oh well, summer isn't far off.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1997 PPV Summed up:

WCW - Good mid card matches, shit main events
WWF - Shit mid card matches, good main events


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HHH/HBK HIAC isn't a bad match. It's just that it went way, way too long. 47 minutes is over kill for a HIAC match or any gimmick match. I'll probably give it about ***1/4 stars.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Check this wonderful shit out. I went over to Press Start Video Games today after the gym, searched that bitch for used wrestling DVDs. Planned on buying two, and the guy told they were doing a huge special this week. *8 DVDs for $20! *That's insanity. Look at what I picked up for a $20 bill:

*Bad Blood 2004 - *Everyone remembers the HHH/HBK Hell in a Cell from this (never thought it was that bad of a match tbh) but there's no way that Benoit/Kane & Orton/Shelton can be anything less than good. Had to grab it.

*Backlash 2005 - *Never seen a single match from this show. Heard great things about the Edge/Benoit Last Man Standing match & Shelton/Jericho looks to be a big time sleeper. As long as HHH/Batista delivers, looks like a solid show.

*Royal Rumble 2006 - *I got this just for the Rumble. That's it. 

*Wrestlemania 22 - *Been years since I've seen the event. Lookin forward to rewatching MITB & Cena/HHH. PLus it has the ENTIRE reincarnated episode of Saturday Night's Main Event that has that awesome Street Fight between Shane & HBK.

*Wrestlemania 23 - *Cena vs. Michaels! :mark:

Did I not get a deal or what!? Passed up on John Cena: My Life, Hardy Boys Twist of Fate, Vengeance: Night of Champions '08, Taboo Tuesday '05, Royal Rumble '03, and a shitty TNA ppv.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Awesome deal. I own Royal Rumble 2006 and WrestleMania 22, Backlash 2005 and WM 23 were decent shows.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Love going to a store and finding some cheap WWE DVDS, it makes me mark out like all fuck and it makes my day that much better. Those are some GREAT fucking finds honestly, with the two Manias and Backlash 2005 being complete steals. That Jericho-Benjamin match is in Benjamin's prime and legit breaks the four star barrier for me as a sleeper classic, while you get the awesomely underrated Batista vs Triple H match and the epic encounter between Edge and Chris Benoit that everybody seems to forget about.

Speaking of Wrestlemania XXIII, I need to post 10-6 on my Mania countdown list like I said I was going to do last night :lol.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Just rewatched *CM punk/ Cena from Raw 17/01/11*. Awesome Tv match. Great moves, great counters (cena catching punk doing a slingshot crossbody), the koji clutch (Cole calls it the Anaconda vise of course...). 

Go watch it people, it's good to see some old punk/cena


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Speaking of 'cheapish' DVDs, I saw Summerslam 88/89, 90/91, 92/93 avalible on Silvervision for the grand price of £19.98, I imagine thats about 27USD. Worth it? Been checking around the interwebz for torrents of them, none of them 'work.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit, that's amazing. Wrestlemania 22 FTW!!!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I was on Amazon and for the fuck of it decided to look up WM24. I never got it and considering it's one of my favorite Wrestlemania's ever, I was considering it. I still am considering a used copy, but good god, the new ones are $80+! That's fucking ridiculous. WM22, 23, 25, 26, and 27 are all under $10 and even WM28 is under $20 new. 

Is there a reason a new copy of WM24 is so expensive? I mean besides having one of the greatest WM main events of all time, the best celebrity (non-Rock for you KOK ) match, and the (WWE) in-ring retirement of one of the top 5 greatest of all time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

the frenchise said:


> Just rewatched *CM punk/ Cena from Raw 17/01/11*. Awesome Tv match. Great moves, great counters (cena catching punk doing a slingshot crossbody), the koji clutch (Cole calls it the Anaconda vise of course...).
> 
> Go watch it people, it's good to see some old punk/cena


(Y) Think I have it like *** 1/4, good stuff for sure.

11/23/09 is another really good one when Punk wasn't quite on Cena's level yet in the company. Has a damn good showing in a loss. *** 1/2



The Rawk said:


> I was on Amazon and for the fuck of it decided to look up WM24. I never got it and considering it's one of my favorite Wrestlemania's ever, I was considering it. I still am considering a used copy, but good god, the new ones are $80+! That's fucking ridiculous. WM22, 23, 25, 26, and 27 are all under $10 and even WM28 is under $20 new.
> 
> Is there a reason a new copy of WM24 is so expensive? I mean besides having one of the greatest WM main events of all time, the best celebrity (non-Rock for you KOK ) match, and the (WWE) in-ring retirement of one of the top 5 greatest of all time.


 I think it's because they discontinued it. If you really do want a new copy, I'd check in stores at FYE. I've seen their exclusive tin in there before.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Any reason it got discontinued?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

The Rawk said:


> I was on Amazon and for the fuck of it decided to look up WM24. I never got it and considering it's one of my favorite Wrestlemania's ever, I was considering it. I still am considering a used copy, but good god, the new ones are $80+! That's fucking ridiculous. WM22, 23, 25, 26, and 27 are all under $10 and even WM28 is under $20 new.
> 
> Is there a reason a new copy of WM24 is so expensive? I mean besides having one of the greatest WM main events of all time, the best celebrity (non-Rock for you KOK ) match, and the (WWE) in-ring retirement of one of the top 5 greatest of all time.


Silver Vision have Wrestlemania 24 DVD for £8.99 and the Blu-ray for £9.99.

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/search/wrestlemania+24/page1.html


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Indeed it does.
> 
> It was done with Jericho vs Punker too? I might have to go watch it again ASAP.


Yeah they did. It actually brought down that match for me. You could kind of tell they were taking it easy and biding time during the commercials. Dragged a bit imo.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

zep81 said:


> Anyone know how to DL the video? I usually use Savevid but its not coming up, tried another site and the video length is too long


KeepVid is the best for YT and DM.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> Any reason it got discontinued?


I think it involved Mayweather.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> I think it involved Mayweather.


Yeah, something to do with Copyright i think, that has now been resolved apparantly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When it first went off SV's site, I went on ebay and picked up the Bluray for next to nothing before everyone bumped up their prices . So at least I had all the WM Bluray releases . Still got it for cheaper than what SV are selling it for now it's back too lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> When it first went off SV's site, I went on ebay and picked up the Bluray for next to nothing before everyone bumped up their prices . So at least I had all the WM Bluray releases . Still got it for cheaper than what SV are selling it for now it's back too lol.


Yeah, i got the DVD Version off ebay (the tin edition), a seller had a few for a tenner, new and sealed with the film cell thing etc, i did post a link here if anyone noticed lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got the tin DVD version back in the day (before I had Bluray player lol). Same for WM 23. Why they randomly did those with tins and no more I'll never know. STOP FUCKING WITH THE PACKAGING YOU CUNTS. Got 2 film cells in one of them too lol.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saw on their twitter that they were posting some BIG NEWS soon. Then they posted the BIG NEWS and it was that cover. Not exactly what I consider BIG NEWS .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

THIS is the one if WWE dont fuck it up lol:

WWE Best of WCW War Games DVD

As planned, the release date will be June 25th, 2013 to the United States. We can confirm it will be produced on both DVD and Blu-ray formats.

Below is the official synopsis for The Best of War Games, provided by WWE.

* “BITTER RIVALRIES. MONUMENTAL MATCHES.
THE MOST DANGEROUS BATTLES IN SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT.”*



> Take one part Royal Rumble, one part Survivor Series, add in two punishing steel cages- and the result is a battle that spanned two rings and cemented a legacy as one of the most unpredictable and unmistakable matches of all time: War Games. WWE Hall of Famer Dusty Rhodes – the mind behind the mayhem – introduces some of the most famous War Games matches (featuring Ric Flair, Sting, the nWo, and more) and gives viewers a comprehensive look inside NWA/WCW’s most innovative concept that revolutionized sports entertainment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They'll fuck it up by missing some of the early (and good) ones in place of one of the terrible Russo Era ones or some shit. Or that one with the Warrior. That blew.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Meh never got the hype behind wargames even the best ones were only good.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Re: the IYH cover: I'm hard.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy hell that IYH cover is all kinds of awesome. Probably pick up the blu ray sometime, about 4 or 5 matches I'd like to own.

And yeah, not all that excited about the War Games set. Already own 3 or 4 on dvd and I've never been the biggest fan of the match type. Could be good but they'll probably throw a bunch of bad shit from the mid to late 90s on it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Only just seen these replies to me:


iwatchwrestling said:


> JR sold the hell out of that match just as hard as he would sell Austin or Rock or Triple H or Undertaker or whomever. Cool match, but JR made it that much better.


That's because JR was the best commentator in the business back then, made every match that much better with his sheer passion and love for wrestling.

Lita's suicide dive in that match was absolutely sick, didn't she nearly break her neck with that spot? 



Kane-UK said:


> In all fairness, they only ever cared about Trish & Lita, not the "Diva's division".
> 
> After Mania 20:
> - Molly Holly was left to absolutely nothing until being released.
> ...


Pretty much.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*Punk/Jericho (Raw 2/4)* was a damn good match, entertained I was. Jericho was good in his role as a veteran face trying to hang with the top company heel at his peak. Both guys sold evrything very well. Punk's facial expression when he lifted Jericho on his shoulders to GTS him at one point was priceless. Damn good match, better than Punk/Cena.

***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah they did. It actually brought down that match for me. You could kind of tell they were taking it easy and biding time during the commercials. Dragged a bit imo.


Weak sauce. By the sound of it, makes you appreciate Cena vs Punker a bit more when the match never slowed during the breaks.

In Your House DVD is too great. Was there a match listing yet, or only the cover to leak?

War Games...I'm on the fence. I adore the gimmick. Only, it's falling under the pile of the Elimination Chamber DVD set. Where I own some (in the case of War Games - Own ever EC match.) of the matches that will no doubt be on the set. Like Cal mentioned, is it really worth owning for some of the latter shitty matches? I think the War Games 2000 match made the original Nitro set as it is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Weak sauce. By the sound of it, makes you appreciate Cena vs Punker a bit more when the match never slowed during the breaks.
> 
> In Your House DVD is too great. Was there a match listing yet, or only the cover to leak?
> 
> War Games...I'm on the fence. I adore the gimmick. Only, it's falling under the pile of the Elimination Chamber DVD set. Where I own some (in the case of War Games - Own ever EC match.) of the matches that will no doubt be on the set. Like Cal mentioned, is it really worth owning for some of the latter shitty matches? I think the War Games 2000 match made the original Nitro set as it is.




*Best of WWE In Your House DVD* - 

DISC 1

Hakushi vs. Bret Hart

Simplistic Yet Brilliant

Bret Hart vs. Hakushi
In Your House • May 14, 1995

Intercontinental Championship Match
Jeff Jarrett vs. Shawn Michaels
In Your House • July 23, 1995

Hey Yo

Intercontinental Championship Match
Razor Ramon vs. Dean Douglas
In Your House • October 22, 1995

Arkansas Hog Pen Match
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Henry O. Godwinn
In Your House • December 17, 1995

A Sloppy Masterpiece?

WWE Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog
In Your House • December 17, 1995

DISC 2

Best of WWE In Your House DVD - Mankind vs. Undertaker, Buried Alive Match Memories Flooding Back

No Holds Barred Match for the WWE Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel
In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies • April 28, 1996

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind
In Your House: Mind Games • September 22, 1996

That’s Why They Play The Game

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley
In Your House: Buried Alive • October 20, 1996

Buried Alive Match
The Undertaker vs. Mankind
In Your House: Buried Alive • October 20, 1996

Crowning a New Champion

Four Corners Match for the Vacant WWE Championship
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader vs. The Undertaker
In Your House: Final Four • February 16, 1997

DISC 3

Best of WWE In Your House DVD - Canadian Stampede

Back in the Saddle

10-Man Tag Team Match
The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & The Legion of Doom
In Your House: Canadian Stampede • July 6, 1997

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
Ground Zero: In Your House • September 7, 1997

A Slobberknocker

Non-Sanctioned 8-Man Tag Team Match
Stone Cold Steven Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie vs. HHH, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega
No Way Out of Texas: In Your House • February 15, 1998

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane
Fully Loaded: In Your House • July 26, 1998

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ken Shamrock vs. Mankind
Judgment Day: In Your House • October 18, 1998

Victory at All Costs

Last Man Standing Match for the WWE Championship
The Rock vs. Mankind
St. Valentine’s Day Massacre • February 14, 1999

A Trip Down Memory Lane

Best of WWE In Your House DVD - Match Listing Confirmed 

*BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES*

DISC 1

Todd Pettengill Outtakes

In Your House Sweepstakes Winner

DISC 2

#1 Contenders Match
Bret Hart vs. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin
In Your House: Revenge of the ‘Taker • April 20, 1997

Match to crown first WWE Light Heavyweight Champion
Taka Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher
D-Generation X: In Your House • December 7, 1997

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock
D-Generation X: In Your House • December 7, 1997

D’Lo Brown vs. X-Pac
Fully Loaded: In Your House • July 26, 1998


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> In Your House DVD is too great. Was there a match listing yet, or only the cover to leak?


http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-best-of-in-your-house-dvd-blu-ray/34801/

Edit: Ninja'd


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Every match on the IYH DVD features one of HBK, Bret, Taker, Austin, Triple H, Foley (not counting the blu-ray extras, which has 2 matches with none of those guys), except Ramon/Douglas. You can pretty much call this the GOAT set. I have alot of these matches already on compilation DVDs I bought elsewhere, but I'm still getting this on Blu Ray. To have all of those matches in HD will be great. Especially the HBK/Foley Mind Games match and HBK/Diesel. This is the most I've looked forward to a WWE DVD in a very long time. Growing up during the IYH time period was awesome. Getting those classics in HD is long overdue.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great. I'm not going to buy it. I own nearly every match on it. Damn. No gems whatsoever. What a jip.

But Razor vs Dean Douglas makes it and that match is horrible :lmao

Blu-Ray Disc Two is where all of the good finds are. Bastards.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Blu-Ray Disc Two is where all of the good finds are. Bastards.


Yeah lol, looks to be the very best part, shame i aint got a bloody Blu-Ray 

Still, i have all the IYH on the Tagged Classics range so its something lol :yum:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Random couple matches I watched from an old VHS tape I recorded as a youngster:

*WWE Championship*
Big Show (c) vs. Edge (_Smackdown 11/21/2002)_

This was the SmackDown after Survivor Series, so this is Show's first defense. Sort of historic if you're an Edge fan seeing as this was the first WWE Title shot he'd ever had. Don't ask me why he got it, that remains a mystery. Anyway, pretty fun match. Edge gets thrown around like a rag doll & the crowd angers Show even more with their chants so he inflicts more punishment on Mr. Copeland. Really cool comeback sequence where Edge hits a huge tornado ddt and 3 spears. Heyman has to break up the pinfall, then Show MURDERS the edgester with 3 chokeslams of his own. Some of you may remember this is the night Stephanie said she'd suspend Brock if he went over Show. Weeeeell, he F5'd him and was suspended the next week.  Fun match though, nothing to seek out but watch it if ya come across. *** 1/2

Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero *from the same show is pretty solid as well. Sneaky tactics from Los Guerreros are always fun. Lots of submission work from Eddie, Lasso from El Paso holmes! Match ends abruptly but it's with an Angle Slam from the middle rope, so... can't complain too much. *** 3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I might just have to buy the blu-ray to own Austin vs Bret. I'll certainly wait for the price to lower before I even think about doing so. Not going to spend 20 bucks on about 8 matches. 4 of which are extras.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey *KOK* after you are done with your Lesnar thing, could you maybe tell me his most fun/best TV matches, as I have only seen him in two I think


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Holy shit, somehow missed this set will have HBK/Taker Ground Zero. Haven't seen that one in ages. :mark: The HBK/Shamrock feed I have is of low quality, so that being in HD will be nice, too.

Between this set, the Bret set coming out next week, Foley in April, WarGames (which has potential), Triple H later in the year, looks like WWE is focusing in on a certain period of time. I am :mark: just at the thought of these sets being released. Bravo WWE, bravo! :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mick's & Bret's are must buys for me so luckily there are sets coming out I got to nab.

Foley's is like Punk's. Regardless of the matches - I need it just for the doc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Where are you, *KOK*? Here is the match I promised to upload.






Starts at 37:30 minutes.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, I have the Punk blu-ray, had to get it. Wasn't disappointed. That documentary delivered. Pretty intrigued at the "History of WWE" doc coming out later this year, as well. Rise & Fall of ECW they knocked out of the park, Rise & Fall of WCW was just alright. Will be interesting to see how they go about their own company. You'd think they can't mess that one up. Only thing is the match listing on that one is going to have to be mostly all repeats. They've pretty much released every great match in WWF/E history already.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

> WWE Championship Match
> Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock
> D-Generation X: In Your House • December 7, 1997


This any good? It sounds awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE really need to wise up and release the gems. How many times do I have to see Undertaker vs Mankind Hell in a Cell on a set already? or Austin vs Bret Submission match? Or any of the "classics". They have to know fans buy the bulk of their merch when released. Cut the BS and give us the rarities. They're out there. Go and put the items on a set.

Nobody cares if they're the best matches around. Case & point being the IC Championship DVD set. #1 voted match by the fans was the 5 minute Austin vs Rock match from D-Generation X. FANS DON'T CARE IF IT IS APPEALING.

EDIT ~ I recall digging the match, Brye. Utterly vague. Take it for what you will. I'm certain it holds up. I'm a Shamrock mark though. Admittedly.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> This any good? It sounds awesome.


Nothing great. In the ***1/4 to ***1/2 range for me. But a fun, rare match that I don't think has been released by WWE up until now. Also features the return of Owen Hart to WWE TV since Montreal which was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No GOAT HIAC on the IYH set makes it an automatical FAIL. I want that match in HD dammit .


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Holy shit, somehow missed this set will have HBK/Taker Ground Zero. Haven't seen that one in ages. :mark: The HBK/Shamrock feed I have is of low quality, so that being in HD will be nice, too.
> 
> Between this set, the Bret set coming out next week, Foley in April, WarGames (which has potential), Triple H later in the year, looks like WWE is focusing in on a certain period of time. I am :mark: just at the thought of these sets being released. Bravo WWE, bravo! :mark:


Ahh HBK/Taker Ground Zero. I'll never forget that match because of this











Classic HBK selling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> No GOAT HIAC on the IYH set makes it an automatical FAIL. I want that match in HD dammit .


DVD isn't good enough anymore? The set had too many repeats as it is, ahhhhh. :hmm:

I'd gladly take all of them off for Undertaker/Michaels and rest be new to DVD. I'd be living in a dream world to have such a thing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Ahh HBK/Taker Ground Zero. I'll never forget that match because of this
> 
> 
> 
> Classic HBK.


That and the Undetaker Leap. I think one of the first times he did that. Fun match, for sure. With all of the classics Taker and HBK have had, Ground Zero gets lost in the shuffle. Owning it in HD is fine by me.


----------



## trip (Apr 13, 2003)

Logo for the new Best of IYH DVD.










And full cover: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-best-of-in-your-house-dvd-cover/35917/


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Yea HBK/Shamrock nothing to write home about. IYH DX I believe was the PPV, with Rock/Austin for the IC belt, which was pretty terrible because of the giant truck driven to the ring, less a wrestling match more a segment IIRC. 

Granted, haven't watched HBK/Shamrock in years, seen it only once, and it was a night I spent vomiting all night because of food poisoning. Pretty underwhelming, and just left me disapointed because the Owen Hart "Black Hart" gimmick was so cool and they were building a cool rivalry, which of course was ditched for Austin/HBK, and rightfully so.

And now I'm just left wondering how cool it would've been to give Owen a title reign.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Very. Extremely. Unlimited amount of cool.
Owen should have at least gotten a match vs Shawn. Don't believe he did. Instead he was grouped in with H. Which lead to good work, but Owen in the main event scene is too good for words.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Owen/HBK had a match at the very last Raw of '97, 12/27/97. Was actually a decent to good match, too. But I think that should have been saved for Royal Rumble '98. Then, they could have moved to HBK/Austin the night after to start the RTWM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Owen had Undertaker & Austin to contend with. I guess WWF wised up when Owen remained with the company to use him well despite having the two other huge names in the path towards the Championship. Undertaker to finish things up with DX & begin the road down the Kane program. And Austin who was being built up for an entire year to become the top star of the company. Owen had no chance when you think about it. I suppose he could have gotten a shot down the line. Rock got in the way of that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, it was pretty much just wishful thinking. Going off the air of IYH DX PPV with Owen attacking Shawn post match really made it look like a match at Royal Rumble was a very real possibility. Even if it was just going to be a one off at RR with WM right around the corner. Ah well, wasn't meant to be with the likes of Austin & Taker in the mix and it being WM season.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Rock vs Y2J - No Mercy 2001 = ****1/4 rating.

Great match between the two. Second match that I have watched between these two (first one was the RAW 2001 match) and the chemistry is really awesome. I love how Jericho insults the Rock during the match :lol. The ending of the match was weird with the Stephanie interference but it lead to Jericho cheating his way to victory so fair play.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steph hates Jericho so much she was willing to aid Rock in defeating him.

Probably my second favorite Rock match out there. Behind vs Austin @ WrestleMania 19.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Steph hates Jericho so much she was willing to aid Rock in defeating him.
> 
> Probably my second favorite Rock match out there. Behind vs Austin @ WrestleMania 19.


 Alright. So similar to when John Laurinitis interfered in Cena - Punk match at MITB? Cena didn't need his help and that cost him the match. Same with Rock, Jericho captilised on the distraction.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Ace only got in the mix there b/c Vince told him to. No real personal attachment at the time. The Jericho/Steph situation was stemming from their long standing feud. She didn't want Jericho to "win the big one." Especially the championship that is under the company that she had stake in. It made sense.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Nothing I can really say that hasn't been said about Cena/Punk on Monday, but good god the most fun I have had watching a match in awhile, definite *****1/4* and #1 WWE MOTY so far


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah. Ace only got in the mix there b/c Vince told him to. No real personal attachment at the time. The Jericho/Steph situation was stemming from their long standing feud. She didn't want Jericho to "win the big one." Especially the championship that is under the company that she had stake in. It made sense.


 (Y) got you.

I need to watch the entire Rock/Y2J feud to get a real idea of what the story was lol. First, I'll need to complete 1997 (I'm going to watch Ground Zero 1997 soon). I'm just 7 episodes behind Kane's debut :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a hot program. Both were faces till the crumble of The Alliance, so naturally the fans were split. I'll stop there at the risk of spoiling any more fun for you.

Ground Zero. Maybe someone will enjoy the opener as much as me. Two of my favorites so of course I have taken a shine to it.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

trip said:


> Logo for the new Best of IYH DVD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah man, this almost brings a tear to my eye. IYH was basically budget PPV's but I have such fond memories going to my local video store and renting them all on VHS to have a weekend marathon. LOVED those cheesy promotional videos at the start of each PPV, all the way to Todd Pettengill whoring himself out on 30% of the show.

Favorite IYH has to be In Your House 6 with the Bret/Diesel Steel Cage main event. Not necessarily because it was the best card with the best matches, but because that's the first PPV my parents ordered for me. A one-two punch Birthday gift of getting that with Wrestlemania 12 :


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

STARSZZZZ for Shawn Michaels/John Cena matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forget it had Owen vs Michaels on it. :mark:


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

YES! Brilliant match from both guys to end their rivalry. I'd even go so far to say that Owen and Shawn worked better together than Bret and Shawn. To me, both guys complimented each other's styles better. I was actually rooting big time for Owen even back then. At the time I absolutely HATED the Heartbreak Kid haha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll agree. I don't even think I dig a single Bret vs Shawn match.

I loved Shawn in the Rockers. When he turned he crushed me. So much to the point as a kid whenever it was Bret vs Shawn I always took Bret's side. It was much of the same with Owen. King of Harts IMO.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I'll agree. I don't even think I dig a single Bret vs Shawn match.
> 
> I loved Shawn in the Rockers. When he turned he crushed me. So much to the point as a kid whenever it was Bret vs Shawn I always took Bret's side. It was much of the same with Owen. King of Harts IMO.


I can't lie, Bret was one of my heroes as a kid. When he lost the title to Micheals at Mania I wanted to cry lol Met him in person before a house show at the Forum de Montreal in 1995 and it was a dream come true. Despite all this, I always enjoyed Owen's work much more. Even back when Owen was teaming with Koko, I was always in awe with his perfect balance of agility and technical prowess. People tend to forget that Owen was every bit as good as Bret was, perhaps not as good a ring general,but he could more than hold his own even in his rookie years. He definitely edged his older brother out in promos.

When it comes to Bret and Shawn, I enjoyed their encounter at Survivor Series 92 somewhat. At the time both guys were hungry to go out and prove that the workhorses could perform at a main event level. As for their match at Wrestlemania.. I loved it because of the significance behind the match, but it seemed uncoordinated at times and dragged on with alot of rest holds. It's not surprising given the Ironman stipulation, but I have seem better Ironmans down the line. Great match, but i'd say it's a bit overrated with so many people calling it the greatest match ever.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Punter said:


> STARSZZZZ for Shawn Michaels/John Cena matches?


WM 23 - **** 1/4
Raw 4/23/07 - **** 1/4
Raw Jan. 09 (forgot the date but JBL was at ringside) - *** 3/4

The other 09 match was at least *** iirc

I don't remember their Raw match in 05


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

blarg_ said:


> I can't lie, Bret was one of my heroes as a kid. When he lost the title to Micheals at Mania I wanted to cry lol Met him in person before a house show at the Forum de Montreal in 1995 and it was a dream come true. Despite all this, I always enjoyed Owen's work much more. Even back when Owen was teaming with Koko, I was always in awe with his perfect balance of agility and technical prowess. People tend to forget that Owen was every bit as good as Bret was, perhaps not as good a ring general,but he could more than hold his own even in his rookie years. He definitely edged his older brother out in promos.
> 
> When it comes to Bret and Shawn, I enjoyed their encounter at Survivor Series 92 somewhat. At the time both guys were hungry to go out and prove that the workhorses could perform at a main event level. As for their match at Wrestlemania.. I loved it because of the significance behind the match, but it seemed uncoordinated at times and dragged on with alot of rest holds. It's not surprising given the Ironman stipulation, but I have seem better Ironmans down the line. Great match, but i'd say it's a bit overrated with so many people calling it the greatest match ever.


Being from Canada I would only expect to hear such a thing. He's treated as a national hero over there by what I've seen. I too always had a preference towards Owen. His style being a nice blend of technical with Japanese Juniors always appeal to me. Of course, as a kid I didn't view it like that. I simply saw it as "he does cool moves" haha. Certainly had more of a knack for being on the stick compared to Bret. Bret wasn't good. He never got comfortable talking barring the rare occasion. He's admitted the fact a few times. Far too many times as a kid during the height of wrestling I've spouted "I'm not a nugget!" It even garnered a nickname for me by my Mom b/c I was so favorable towards Owen. Fun times.

Survivor Series '92 was solid. Went a bit longer than it should. My only drawbacks with the match is it felt a bit too much too soon for Shawn at the time from a singles capacity. He wasn't quite sure at how to formula a lengthy singles match and resorted to mostly using rest holds over any interesting psychology/storytelling. I flat out loathe the Iron Man match personally. I've made it known. I wouldn't be surprised if the claim for "fan who disapproves of the match most" was given to me. At this rate, I don't know if anyone does. I understand the logic of pacing. It goes without saying. The match was worked all wrong if you ask me. I hardly can say a single bit of it was redeeming except for putting HBK over. Which wasn't hard. All that needed to be done was go the distance vs Bret and he'd be gravy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK/Cena:

WM 23 - ****
Raw 4/23/07 - ****1/2
Raw Jan. 09 (First match) - ***3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingOfKings Top 50 Wrestlemania Matches Ever : 10-6


10. _"As I always say, WHAT THE HELL USE THE BELL"_










Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII) : ***** 1/2*


9. _"All that matters..... Is act THREE"_










Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX) : ***** 1/2*


8. _"When I see your old lady I'm goinna give her a kiss on dem soft, moist lips... WOOOOOOO!"_ 










WWF Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII) : ***** 1/2*


7. _"You and me will go out there and DEFINE AN ERA"_










The Undertaker vs Triple H (No Holds Barred ; Wrestlemania XXVII) : ***** 3/4*


6. _"Two men known for controversy will step it up on the biggest stage of them all"_ 










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII) : ***** 3/4*​

I'm probably the biggest fan in the world of three of these matches (those three matches being 10, 7, and 6) and I'm not going to be shy about it. Some of these matches wouldn't be top 10 on most countdowns but I found every one of them to be special in some particular fashion, and starting with Bret and Roddy it's easy to see why. I'd rank this above the Valentine Dog Collar match as Roddy's greatest showing ever, as he was certainly no slouch against the Hitman who put in work with one of the best performances I've seen at a Wrestlemania. His selling as awesome, Piper's offense was outside of the box, while the climax to this one revolves around Piper's story arc of his heel roots vs his new found nature and respect for a competitor like the hitman. It' the inner struggle in alot of matches that I love and to me it feels like a better version of the NM 05 match between Batista and Eddie except Bret is far superior to Batista in every way. I also love the fantastic blade job by Bret (which he was able to convince Vince that it was accidental, thus avoiding a fine) and how this match was the greatest match in Wrestlemania history for like, less than an hour :lol.

Steve Austin vs The Rock part mother fucking THREE. This is the greatest Rock vs Austin match of all time without question in my mind as the story these two told was more than attitude style brawling, but an epic contest with two legends leaving it all out there in one final battle. This is THE ROCK'S match without question as he went out there and just KILLED IT for the duration with his guiding of a sick and partially broken Steve Austin. The false finishes were all fantastic, the character bits such as Rocky putting on Austin's vest, and other various factors give it a "fresh" and organic feel compared to previous Rock-Austin encounters. It still blows my mind how epic Rock's performance was in this one as he went out there and showed everybody why he should be remembered as a legend and a great big time performer.

I've seen maybe one person like Randy Savage vs Ric Flair more than me. In terms of a great wrestling match, this is more of an EXPERIENCE to me complete with some of the greatest commentary you'll hear from Bobby Heenan in your lifetime, who was in GOAT mode at this point, especially when it came to Flair. Randy Savage was trying to keep his rage within while Perfect and Flair through the help of dirty tactics caused Savage to injure his knee which of course led to a Ric Flair dissection of the injured body part in preparation for the figure four. The angry man who wants revenge for his wife while also wanting to reach the top of the mountain again against the individual he despises the most... How could it have been written any better ? Punk's "possessed babyface performance" was incredible but it was outdone by Savage here in a bout against the GOAT. The ending is fantastic, the post match interviews are some of the greatest WWF/WWE promos of all time, and it all wraps up to be one of the greatest "feel good" moments ever... Perhaps my favorite Wrestlemania moment.

Okay I'm going to get a ton of shit for this but.... Triple H vs The Undertaker @ Mania XXVII is AMAZING, and here's why (explanation for Cody) ; the story was incredibly simple and told in a straightforward manner. The story is essentially "we're the last two left, let's kill each other"... AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DO! Right from the get go they pull out their biggest shots and don't look back like a wild west showdown (which this reminds me of for some reason), never degenerating into lesser moves like somebody with the mindset of Kurt Angle would do. They hit their big guns right away and go BIGGER, which in turn fatigues both men more and causes them work a slower pace. It's the most simple story anybody could write into a match and it doesn't get convoluted like the Mania XXVIII End of an Era Cell match does. If Triple H had to pass out in Hell's Gate and in turn playing up his claim that he's going to end the streak or die trying, this might have broken the five star barrier for me, it's that fucking epic. I can kinda see WHY somebody wouldn't like it but GOD DAMN.... such a simple story played out to perfection by two all time greats.

Then we reach a match that was the biggest shocker for me out of every single Wrestlemania in HBK vs Cena. I originally thought this would be somewhere between 40 and 30 so to have it be fucking number SIX blows my mind and it definitely deserves the honor. HBK IS A FUCKING GOD IN THIS. I swear to God it's a top five Shawn Michaels performance as he enters with the DX music and during the match breaks out his old school COKE SHAWN tactics and moves that he wouldn't break out normally. Even his facial expression says "I'm a coked up motherfucker but I'm going to steal the show" and I mean good god, could they open any better ? One of my favorite beginnings to a match ever with Cena throwing bombs and HBK getting the better of him every single time with strategy and not physical prowess, but instead of it being "underdog HBK", it's almost like "I'm better than you and I know it because I'm a douchebag" HBK. He's the showstopper but he makes you feel for Cena which I never ever thought would happen, especially during his 2007 run as a character. Top that off with brutality like the piledriver on the steps and you have a cocktail for my new 2007 MOTY and the greatest John Cena match up until MITB 2011. The pacing is brilliant, Cena's selling and babyface comeback is brilliant, HBK is fucking BEAST, and there's tons more I could say but I'm going to wrap this up. HELL, this would be a top five Mania match had it not been for two absolute BEAST matches that came after it.

TOP FIVE COMING TOMORROW :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:​
BY THE WAY C2D... IF YOU NEVER HAD ROCK IN YOUR SIGNATURE YOU WOULD BE MY GOD. Thanks a Million bro.

rton2


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Being from Canada I would only expect to hear such a thing. He's treated as a national hero over there by what I've seen. I too always had a preference towards Owen. His style being a nice blend of technical with Japanese Juniors always appeal to me. Of course, as a kid I didn't view it like that. I simply saw it as "he does cool moves" haha. Certainly had more of a knack for being on the stick compared to Bret. Bret wasn't good. He never got comfortable talking barring the rare occasion. He's admitted the fact a few times. Far too many times as a kid during the height of wrestling I've spouted "I'm not a nugget!" It even garnered a nickname for me by my Mom b/c I was so favorable towards Owen. Fun times.
> 
> Survivor Series '92 was solid. Went a bit longer than it should. My only drawbacks with the match is it felt a bit too much too soon for Shawn at the time from a singles capacity. He wasn't quite sure at how to formula a lengthy singles match and resorted to mostly using rest holds over any interesting psychology/storytelling. I flat out loathe the Iron Man match personally. I've made it known. I wouldn't be surprised if the claim for "fan who disapproves of the match most" was given to me. At this rate, I don't know if anyone does. I understand the logic of pacing. It goes without saying. The match was worked all wrong if you ask me. I hardly can say a single bit of it was redeeming except for putting HBK over. Which wasn't hard. All that needed to be done was go the distance vs Bret and he'd be gravy.


Well said.

I wouldn't say that he was a fleshed out Canadian icon back then, he only started the chauvinistic shtick years later with the build toward the Hart Foundation reform. Always liked him for his flamboyance and human side. Don't forget that he rose to prominance in the wake of larger than life cartoon characters, to me he exemplified the hard working common man that you could easily relate to. He could've hailed from Istanbul for all I cared lol I'm with you on not being too move savvy as a young kid ether, to me guys like the British Bulldog, The Rockers (loved Marty better than Shawn believe it or not) and Owen were cool because they could flip around. Turns out that all these guys happened to be great performers and I grew a broader appreciation for their work down the line.

I can agree that pacing has always been a bit off with those two. You could feel a certain tension between them at all times evoked out of competitive integrity, but that also made the flow of the match awkward at times. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the Ironman, I don't think it's THAT great, but I wouldn't say it was bad ether. It remains two guys at the peak of their physical shape giving a solid performance. It wasn't unorthodox for guys to go an hour back in the territory days, but in 1996 the WWF performers weren't accustomed to that longevity, so you have to take that into account. The match was pivotal in breaking the rut WWF found itself in with archaic match structure. The match had emotion going into it, and strong implications which adds to it's value. The build up to me at least was great.

Won't get into the utter shitfest that was Survivor Series 97. I was at that PPV , and it came across just as bad LIVE than it did on tv, probably worse since they spent epochs fighting at the entrance way which was to the far left of my seat position. needless to say, most of the time I could see fuck all, and the portion that I did see, I felt raped. There was an uproar outside the arena following the PPV. My guess is it had more to do with people getting a shitty main event then the actual controversy.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Piper/Bret - Never seen it
Rock/Austin - ****3/4
Flair/Savage - ****1/2
HHH/Taker - ****
Cena/HBK - ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like how the questioning by myself was implied. It's polarizing, yet at the same time it breaks even among fans. You either liked it or you didn't. We're just on different sides of the fence here.

Before it is asked: ~!

Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper ~ ****
Steve Austin vs The Rock ~ ****1/2
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage ~ ****1/2
The Undertaker vs Triple H ~ **1/2
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels ~ ****

I often imitate the finish of Flair vs Savage with my brother. So, I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to :mark: for it. 

All of this talk of great matches is making me want to watch one. All I'm doing is watching a bit of Attitude Era stuff. And it sucks. Pardon the fun I get from seeing Al Snow. b/c Al Snow OWNS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've seen an Indy show that was highlighted by a BRET appearance, and a show that was highlighted by a HOGAN appearance and I've got to tell you, the pops were very, very fucking close. Hitman is Canadian royalty and always will be, but GOD DAMN Canadian's fucking love Hulk Hogan. It doesn't even make sense in all honesty, but Hogan has even stated on record that Canada is his favorite place to perform due to everybody having a mad ton of respect for him.

Bret and Hogan are complete opposites but legends in the sense that Hogan did what he did best better than anybody else in company history, and Bret did what he did best better than anybody else in company history. Being a Canadian, it's like I'm obligated to like Hogan for some reason even though he's probably the biggest liar on planet earth :lol.

Speaking of breaks between fans, Trips-Taker is one of those matches that breaks INTELLIGENT WRESTLING FANS. Some people get split on particular matches like the ironman, but I don't honestly see too many members of the IWC who really know the business who love the Ironman besides a few really smart guys like *Clique* who I'm sure has his reasoning for loving it. I really like the Ironman match believe it or not but I don't think it's a classic by any means... I just think it's special when a match can split the most scrutinizing minds like ourselves.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Great write-up. As for stars...

Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper ~ ****
Steve Austin vs The Rock ~ ****1/2
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage ~ ****1/2
The Undertaker vs Triple H ~ ****
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels ~ ****1/2


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Completely agree. Saw a WCW house show in Montreal were Hollywood Hogan had a match against Jacques Rougeau, a legend in these here parts. Hogan got just as big an ovation as a HEEL if not bigger.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I've actually gone WAY down on the Iron Man match. I think it was nostalgic childhood memories was the biggest reason I reveled in it so much. I really isn't as engaging of a mach as much of a wrestling masterpiece as I wanted to think it was at one time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

blarg_ said:


> Well said.
> 
> I wouldn't say that he was a fleshed out Canadian icon back then, he only started the chauvinistic shtick years later with the build toward the Hart Foundation reform. Always liked him for his flamboyance and human side. Don't forget that he rose to prominance in the wake of larger than life cartoon characters, to me he exemplified the hard working common man that you could easily relate to. He could've hailed from Istanbul for all I cared lol I'm with you on not being too move savvy as a young kid ether, to me guys like the British Bulldog, The Rockers (loved Marty better than Shawn believe it or not) and Owen were cool because they could flip around. Turns out that all these guys happened to be great performers and I grew a broader appreciation for their work down the line.
> 
> ...


Bret was proud of his homeland. The connotations between his general growth and immense love from Canadian fans seemed to go hand in hand. Even at the beginning of his rise. You would know better from that perspective. I'll take your word for it. Going from Hogan to Bret. Kind of trips you out when you look at the massive change it top star in the blink of an eye. One was so cartoony _(in a good way)_ & the other was so real. It parallels the time frames for which they were on top. WWF started to slowly work its way into being filled with more "real" personalities than over the top gimmicks. Of course, those lingered about. Hell Bret DID feud with a Dentist & a Pirate in the same year, let us not forget. But, outside of The Undertaker - subsequently Kane too - the bigger names on the marquee were all playing themselves with the volume turned up. Austin being the clincher. Certainly was the same for most kids I'm sure. Whatever appealed to you while you were young, can grow to be appreciated as you matured and understood the sport/mindset behind pro wrestling. Or you find those guys you marked for, grow up, and realize they weren't quite as good as you originally thought. _(And here I thought Papa Shango was awesome & Ultimate Warrior was completely sane. Ha!)_

Something about their work never clicked into "high gear" for me. It always remained at square one. Can't quite put my finger on why. Don't know if their personal tension would factor into it. Perhaps it did. A great mystery I'll never know the answer for? Fair enough. Your response on the Iron Man tends to be the most accepted. Some appreciate what it was meant to be, but know the match wasn't anything to go out of your way to see. Tbhayley, I don't recall my personal thoughts on the match. I was drawn towards Goldust vs Piper & Undertaker vs Diesel more than I was the championship. Maybe being so young I couldn't grasp what an Iron Man match entailed. Irony being I almost attended the event. Still wished I had.

You see, I've always wondered what fans were thinking when that event closed. Did they attempt to riot to a mild extend via anger? Were they aware Bret was royally screwed before their eyes? Kayfabe knew no bounds that night. I too would have been upset at the finish if I were there and a bit more competent in understanding the true enormity of what went down. I remember being so confused at 7 years old when it happened :lol


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I've only seen 3 of the matches on your top 10-6, I'll eventually get down to Bret/Piper and Savage/Flair, can't wait till the latter. But I don't rate the rest of them too high. Prefer X7 for Austin/Rock, ***3/4+++++, Taker/HHH was about ***1/2 and it took me 3 attempts to watch Cena/Michaels in full, which got a ***1/2.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Punter said:


> STARSZZZZ for Shawn Michaels/John Cena matches?


This here's my cup of tea. 

Mania 23 - **** 1/2
RAW '07 - **** 1/2
RAW 1/12/09 - **** 1/4 (amazing character work from Shawn, underrated stuff)
Still haven't seen their other RAW match in ;09 but I do own it on blu ray.

I've never seen Bret/Piper or Flair/Savage, guys. 

But :mark: at the love for Cena/Michaels.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> This here's my cup of tea.
> 
> Mania 23 - **** 1/2
> RAW '07 - **** 1/2
> ...


Go download WrestleMania 8 right NOW.

You'll soon know the crime that is having Hogan/Sid go on last over Flair/Savage. I mean really. Hogan was Hogan but jesus WWF. Sid gets put over the WWF Championship? WITH A BOTCHED DQ FINISH? Ahhhh.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

So Punk is Cena's best opponent, correct?

Ratings 

Raw Feb 11 *** 1/2
MITB 11 - **** 1/2
SummerSlam 11 - *** 3/4
Raw Aug 11 - *** 1/4
NOC 12 - ****
Raw Jan 13 - ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Go download WrestleMania 8 right NOW.
> 
> You'll soon know the crime that is having Hogan/Sid go on last over Flair/Savage. I mean really. Hogan was Hogan but jesus WWF. Sid gets put over the WWF Championship? WITH A BOTCHED DQ FINISH? Ahhhh.


Well, I have Flair/Savage on dvd so I'll just download Bret/Piper sometime. The rest of the show looks meh. Or, is the Piper set worth my money?



Clique said:


> So Punk is Cena's best opponent, correct?
> 
> Ratings
> 
> ...


At this point Punk narrowly edges out Michaels, but only because of the amount of matches they had.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Bret was proud of his homeland. The connotations between his general growth and immense love from Canadian fans seemed to go hand in hand. Even at the beginning of his rise. You would know better from that perspective. I'll take your word for it. Going from Hogan to Bret. Kind of trips you out when you look at the massive change it top star in the blink of an eye. One was so cartoony _(in a good way)_ & the other was so real. It parallels the time frames for which they were on top. WWF started to slowly work its way into being filled with more "real" personalities than over the top gimmicks. Of course, those lingered about. Hell Bret DID feud with a Dentist & a Pirate in the same year, let us not forget. But, outside of The Undertaker - subsequently Kane too - the bigger names on the marquee were all playing themselves with the volume turned up. Austin being the clincher. Certainly was the same for most kids I'm sure. Whatever appealed to you while you were young, can grow to be appreciated as you matured and understood the sport/mindset behind pro wrestling. Or you find those guys you marked for, grow up, and realize they weren't quite as good as you originally thought. _(And here I thought Papa Shango was awesome & Ultimate Warrior was completely sane. Ha!)_
> 
> Something about their work never clicked into "high gear" for me. It always remained at square one. Can't quite put my finger on why. Don't know if their personal tension would factor into it. Perhaps it did. A great mystery I'll never know the answer for? Fair enough. Your response on the Iron Man tends to be the most accepted. Some appreciate what it was meant to be, but know the match wasn't anything to go out of your way to see. Tbhayley, I don't recall my personal thoughts on the match. I was drawn towards Goldust vs Piper & Undertaker vs Diesel more than I was the championship. Maybe being so young I couldn't grasp what an Iron Man match entailed. Irony being I almost attended the event. Still wished I had.
> 
> You see, I've always wondered what fans were thinking when that event closed. Did they attempt to riot to a mild extend via anger? Were they aware Bret was royally screwed before their eyes? Kayfabe knew no bounds that night. I too would have been upset at the finish if I were there and a bit more competent in understanding the true enormity of what went down. I remember being so confused at 7 years old when it happened :lol



Aye, but keep in mind that I was very young too at the time Bret got his big break. I knew he was Canadian, but he wasn't the proverbial flag bearer for the Country on screen that he later became. Maybe it was my circle of friend at the time too, at that point I just graduated from playing with those big rubber WWF action figures I had a box full of, so talking about one's homeland wasn't top priority haha I know that Bret was revered at the schools I went to, he was the quintessential IT guy of professional wrestling. Wouldn't be surprised if it was similar in the States circa 1994.

Yeah, the new Generation was an odd transitional period. You had a crop of marquee names putting on quality matches, being allowed to be hyperextentions of themselves, while the midcard was stuck in limbo forced to incarnate all of Vince's mindboggling fantasies. Bastion Booger? Duke the Dumpster Droese? Give me an fn break. It's as if Vince was reluctant to move on from the formula that once worked, while only dipping his tippy toes in what the product shouldve been at the time. As for Warrior, that's another one of my much earlier heroes haha. He's actually the reason I got into wrestling. My myopic interpretation of Wrestling at the time was limited to guys looking cool and kicking ass. At that age, Survivor Series 90 was a wet dream. Even with my taste being more refined, I still long for those characters much like you long for Glacier and Max Moon : #cryptictoavoidunecessarytraffic


My biggest memory of what transpired after the Montreal fiasco is having an impossible time trying to take the subway. They almost broke out the brooms they use in China to push people into the trains lol At the time i'm sure everyone was confused as to what happened. Didn't matter though, Montrealer are known to be raucous. Were talking about Cars being flipped over just because our Hockey Team loses/wins a bracket in the playoffs. I can guarantee you that Shawn wouldve gotten murdered for what he did to the flag that night. I'm sure he pissed his pants trying to get out of that city unoticed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Like that thread says in the General WWE section, they bring the best out of each other.

RAW Feb 11 : **** 3/4*
MITB 11 : *******
SS 11 : ***** 1/2*
RAW Aug 11 : ******
NOC 12 : ***** 1/4*
RAW Jan 13 : ***** 1/4*

Off the top of my head when it comes to WWE chemistry I'd put the following ahead of them ; HBK/Taker, Bret/Austin, Game-Foley............ and that's it honestly.... MAYBE Kurt-Taker but since I don't like their matches pre 2003 I can't come out and say them. Benoit is perhaps the second greatest worker ever but he worked so well with everybody that one specific opponent comes to mind, the same with Bret-Owen (that's probably better than Punk-Cena) and Bret-Perfect.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He has to be. Don't know if anyone will take the time to read, although I've made a write up on the first few matches of their series. I need to finish it.




Spoiler: CM Punk vs John Cena stuff



1) John Cena vs CM Punk ~ *Monday Night RAW 11/23/09*

Bell rings. Here he go. First time ever. Haha at Punk with the hair, jesus beard, & CHEST HAIR. This Straight Edge Savior gimmick ruled. Early going is the standard "feeling out" process. Expected. Love the feel of this match. Even here this program felt big. And this wasn't a program. Purely a big RAW vs Smackdown dream match. Cena turns up the heat fast, attempting an STF which saw Punk scurry to the outside - eventually leading to a commercial break. Return and Punk has John-boy grounded via guilotine hold. Cena channels Davey Smith as he gets to his feet and falls backwards. Punker quickly grabs the advantage following due to his strikes. Methodical offense used by Punk here. Which seemed to be key in their future bouts. PUNK USING DEM MMA ELBOWS. Commentary puts over both men's submission moves. Hope those come into play. They've been hyped up well as a threat for both men. Cena starts hitting on all cylinders, unleashing the "5 moves of doom". F-U, COUNTER AS PUNK LANDS. Punk going for the Go 2 Sleep. Nope, Cena catches the knee and locks in the STF~! Crowd on their feet...will he..will he...no. Punk gets to the ropes. Cena breaks, gets to his feet only to walk into a roundhouse kick. Nearfall. This pace certainly picked up when Cena started to unleash his offense. GREAT top rope leg drop on Punk for another close near fall. Hot crowd for the match. Punk counters out of another F-U, push into the ropes followed up with a leg lariat. These sequences are a lot of fun. Punk lunges towards Cena in the corner, Cena moves. Punk is caught up on the top rope. Cena goes underneath Punk, begins to climb up to the second rope. No way. F-U FROM THE SECOND ROPE. 1, 2, 3. Done. 

Winner: John Cena @ _(9:36)_

Quality tv match. It wasn't great. They would soon work their way towards that level. You saw the flashes of brilliance here though. The sequences that were hot were loads of fun, crowd reacted big time, and with the right structure their bouts can really take shape. Good start to a great feud.

Rating: ***

----------

2) John Cena vs CM Punk ~ *Monday Night RAW 12/14/09*

Superstar of the Year First Round match is the label behind this match. What ever excuse they find to put Cena back in the ring with Punk is something I'M DOWN for. K, here we go. Did I mention how boss Punk looks at this time? Oh, I did. Strikes early from Punk. Moving fast. That's probably going to lead to something...quick weardown attempt by Punk. Nothing as Cena powers out fast. Punk goes for a Go 2 Sleep, Cena does that awesome counter out of it while wrapping out the leg of Punk. STF is locked in. This early?! Cena pulls Punk away from the ropes and, and..AND...that's it. Punk submits. What a jip.

Winner: John Cena @ _(1:41)_

Nothing to add here. I think the only non-submission move that was done was a knee to the face. TOO SHORT. I have to think this is the only "abysmal" mark on the series. That's only b/c of the criminal lack of time.

Rating: DUD

----------

3) John Cena vs CM Punk ~ *Monday Night RAW 6/7/10*

CM Punk SES mask on in this. Brilliant. Crowd is VERY pro-Cena. Quick kicks by Punk - headlock, off the ropes, Cena knocks Punk down with a shoulderblock. lmao. now a LOUD "you can't wrestle" chant. Ok, so this crowd is split. I retract my statement. Better to say this crowd is awesome. Chain rasslin. I dig it. Singled handed knuckle lock quickly broken by Punk to send the assault on Cena. Strike time. Dropkick to the back of the head. Nice. Near fall. CM Punk channels Super Dragon by locking in the grounded head scissors. Great counter by Cena rolling through almost locking in the STF. He's so good at finding different ways to flow into that move. Cena off the ropes but LUKE GALLOWS trips up Cena. Haha. Nice. That pissed off the Cena fans. Commercial break. Back from commercial, action going -> omg FU attempt. Nope. Punk gets out. Shoot Cena to the outside via his momentum. He distracts the ref and it allows Serena to take a cheap kick to the ribs of Cena. Back inside Punker is gunning after the ribs. Cena begins to counter that and roll with his trademark set. This crowd is phenomenal. Five knuckle shuffle time. Cena goes...then stops. He sees Wade Barrett on the stage. Cena looks puzzled. He connects with the 5KS. Picks up Punk for the FU. More of the NXT rookies show up. They jump Luke Gallows. Cena throws Punk out to the wolves and it's mayhem. This match is done.

Winner: No Contest @ _(6:27)_

Well this was fun up until it was cut short due to the epic Nexus debut. You could tell they tried to fit a lot in the decent amount of time given. I liked the interactions with the SES. I liked the rapid back and forth flow of who had the momentum. No complaints here. Not even upset at the non-finish as I was one of the biggest advocate of this moment and Nexus in general. Once again, a really fun bout.

Rating: **

----------

4) John Cena vs CM Punk ~ *Monday Night RAW 1/17/11*

Oh man. Here we go. The first match of their official feud. 2011 series stars NOW. Another electric crowd. Getting goosebumps. I love the building each of these matches have. The more and more they face each other, the bigger they become. New Nexus is banned from ringside/interfering in this. If they do, Punk will lose his spot in the Royal Rumble. Bit of a caviat I thought I should add. SLUGFEST TO START. Cena bulldog. Cena mounting punches all over Punk right now. Punk gets whipped hard into the corner chest first. More harsh body shots by Cena. He's pissed. I'm digging the fire. Whip off the ropes by Cena, he ducks, and Punk delivers a big kick to the face. Punk follows it up with a baseball slide to the outside. Commercial break. We're back and Punk has Cena locked in the grounded head scissors. Oh man. Cena showing his power by getting to his feet WITH Punk still attatched. Punk proving his history doesn't repeat itself and he avoids the fall by jumping off, turning Cena around and following it up with a big ddt. More ground work by Punk. Cole is putting over Punk with the New Nexus angle. It's actually fitting despite not calling the match. It puts Punk over well. Cena breaks out, some quick fluid transitions from counters by both men. Cena pops up and hits the SHOULDERBLOCK. Protobomb. "You can't see me" 5KS hits. Lift up for the FU, nope, Punk gets out and pushes Cena into a great flying heel kick. Whip into the corner, BIGGGGGGG knee to the face. Bulldog by Punk. Cover. Nope. Only 2. GTS time. As expected the catch, into the STF. PUNK IS IN. Crowd erupts. Punk makes it to the ropes fairly quick. Pretty standard fare for their matches up to this point. It's continuing. I'm excited to see what's next. DOUBLE CLOTHESLINE - MAKING IT THE GREATEST MATCH EVER. Ref counting both men down. The arise at the count of 7. FU attempt, Punk grabs the ropes and lands on the apron. Punk with a kick to the temple of Cena. Springboard clothesline. Looked great. Another 2 count. Strikes by Punker. Oh, wait out of nowhere FU attempt. Punk panics and gets out of it. Punk hits a downward spiral and turns it into the KOJI CLUTCH. OH SHIT! Cena is desperately trying to get to the ropes. He crawls. Gets close before he starts to fade. Cena reaches...and reaches, and he...gets the rope! Match continues. Cena is regaining his strength out on the apron. Punk takes advantage by giving a yakuza kick directly to the head of Cena, knocking him to the ground. Punk attempts a plancha. Gets caught in midair. Punk has his back rammed into the steel post. Punker is down. Cena is going up top. Top rope leg drop anyone? NO. Punk cuts him off at the pass. Roundhouse kick to the chest. HEADBUTT by Punk. Superplex attempt. Cena's power is blocking it. Cena knocks Punk off the top with a headbutt of his own. This match rocks. Leg drop time x2? He connects! 1! 2! NO. Cena is baffled that it wasn't it. Cena was going to capatalize, but before he can a rather large Dave Bautista looking man pops up on the apron. Oh, it's Mason Ryan. Punk hits Cena in the back of the head with another roundhouse kick. Ryan enters ring. Punk opens his arms up and Ryan kicks his head off causing the match to end. CM Punk took the damage although no winner was announced. That's because the ref was at a loss on what the grounds of the assault were so this gets rule another no contest.

Winner: No Contest @ _(12:49)_

Well that was their best so far. It turns out the fourth time is the charm here. First match was really good, but I have to say, despite the non-clean finish this was the overall stronger bout. It kicked into that second gear that the 3 previous didn't have. These guys already have a set formula. Once they get past it, that's when the REAL fun kicks in. You start seeing a whole slew of new moments between the two. As I mentioned - wonderful progression in the series. I marked quite a bit during this match. Double crossbody added to the drama and kind of set up the final final finishing stretch of the bout. Headbutts were unleashed. The topper was the koji clutch being used. Loved that addition. I think Punk has only used that one other time and that was from their last match on RAW this year. I could be wrong. Nonetheless, this was the first time. Great innovated move to throw Cena off his game. Felt like it could have been the end at that point. The finish wasn't anything to write home about. It was purely storyline advancing. Punk could have the New Nexus interfere in said singles bout, so his newest "unofficial" member did the dirty work. I was digging how he had Ryan nail him with the boot so it came off as if they weren't in collusion with one another. Great touch. The aftermath of the match was a few levels of awesome too. Cena gets owned by Ryan. Out comes New Nexus teasing a beatdown on Ryan. All before Ryan drops to a knee with his arm out, ready to accept the badge of Punk's newest cult like faction. The heat there was immense. Felt as it the New Nexus was gonna be a big deal at the time. Punk turned out well later on in 2011. That's what matters most. Good match. Best match...so far.

Rating: ***1/4



RAW 2/7/11 ~ *
RAW 2/14/11 ~ ***1/2
MITB 2011 ~ *****
SummerSlam ~ tbhayley, I need another watch. I know it's in the **** area.
August 2011 ~ ****
RAW 7/23/12 ~ ***
Night of Champions 2012 ~ ****1/4
RAW 2/25/13 ~ ****

Don't think I missed one. 

Oh, and JE187, the Piper set is fun. You can find it for 5 bucks at most locations now. A steal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

blarg_ said:


> Aye, but keep in mind that I was very young too at the time Bret got his big break. I knew he was Canadian, but he wasn't the proverbial flag bearer for the Country on screen that he later became. Maybe it was my circle of friend at the time too, at that point I just graduated from playing with those big rubber WWF action figures I had a box full of, so talking about one's homeland wasn't top priority haha I know that Bret was revered at the schools I went to, he was the quintessential IT guy of professional wrestling. Wouldn't be surprised if it was similar in the States circa 1994.
> 
> Yeah, the new Generation was an odd transitional period. You had a crop of marquee names putting on quality matches, being allowed to be hyperextentions of themselves, while the midcard was stuck in limbo forced to incarnate all of Vince's mindboggling fantasies. Bassion Booger? Duke the Dumpster Droese? Give me an fn break. It's as if Vince was reluctant to move on from the formula that once worked, while only dipping his tippy toes in what the product shouldve been at the time. As for Warrior, that's another one of my much earlier heroes haha. He's actually the reason I got into wrestling. My myopic interpretation of Wrestling at the time was limited to guys looking cool and kicking ass. At that age, Survivor Series 90 was a wet dream. Even with my taste being more refined, I still long for those characters much like you long for Glacier and Max Moon : #cryptictoavoidunecessarytraffic
> 
> ...


Bret was big over here. No doubt about it. However, when it came to mainstream admiration among a wrestler in the US, it always began and ended with Hogan. Even when he jumped ship to WCW. It remained. So many TV appearances. So much everything. Bret wasn't far behind to his credit. And after being so fresh in the spotlight too. It was quite impressive. He broke more mainstream barriers than Ric Flair ever did. A big compliment when rewarded with being a hot property in the wrestling game.

1995 as a whole fits your description. It was...different. On one event you can have the cream of the crop wrestlers busting their butts to give a hell of a performance. The other side of the coin would be two aberrant gimmicks clobbering with each other till one finally receded. Who needed to see Mabel vs Adam Bomb on a PPV following two good wrestling matches on In Your House #1? I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for the Warrior. How could any kid not love the guy growing up. Such energy. Not to mention the most pulse pounding theme song out there. I still get goosebumps after every time I hear it. Glacier & Max Moon?! Now you're making me feel _very _nostalgic. 

Doesn't vex me. Hockey fans do tend to get that way no matter what the town/location is. I was curious if pro wrestling could illicit the same reaction. Shawn had to sneak out. Or else run out of the building. No way he was leaving casually after the shenanigans in the ring and backstage. He was in hot water from everyone except for the boss. Funny, how it worked out like that.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Bret was big over here. No doubt about it. However, when it came to mainstream admiration among a wrestler in the US, it always began and ended with Hogan. Even when he jumped ship to WCW. It remained. So many TV appearances. So much everything. Bret wasn't far behind to his credit. And after being so fresh in the spotlight too. It was quite impressive. He broke more mainstream barriers than Ric Flair ever did. A big compliment when rewarded with being a hot property in the wrestling game.
> 
> 1995 as a whole fits your description. It was...different. On one event you can have the cream of the crop wrestlers busting their butts to give a hell of a performance. The other side of the coin would be two aberrant gimmicks clobbering with each other till one finally receded. Who needed to see Mabel vs Adam Bomb on a PPV following two good wrestling matches on In Your House #1? I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for the Warrior. How could any kid not love the guy growing up. Such energy. Not to mention the most pulse pounding theme song out there. I still get goosebumps after every time I hear it. Glacier & Max Moon?! Now you're making me feel _very _nostalgic.
> 
> Doesn't vex me. Hockey fans do tend to get that way no matter what the town/location is. I was curious if pro wrestling could illicit the same reaction. Shawn had to sneak out. Or else run out of the building. No way he was leaving casually after the shenanigans in the ring and backstage. He was in hot water from everyone except for the boss. Funny, how it worked out like that.



I honestly never cared for Hogan both as a wrestler and an attraction. I understood his importance, but he never phased me. It's weird too, he's by far the most over non-Canadian here in Montreal, he even outpops our own which NEVER happens under any other circumstances. The closest i've seen was Stone Cold outpopping Owen at Survivor Series, although Owen isn't a Quebecer. Hmm, not sure if Bret broke greater mainstream barriers than Flair, seems to me like those barriers were already broken before Bret's rise. During his stint at the top, he wasn't a great draw, but he got the job done. I think the WWF brand as a whole was still strong, but Bret was only really a star to those inside the wrestling bubble. He made occational appearances on tv shows, cartoons and music videos but those were all relatively lowkey from what I recall. Flair was synonymous with Wrestling. My grandfather knew who he was and didnt know jack about wrestling. Flair's ascension to me was much more of a slow burn, but somehow he etched his name in pop culture by simply being Ric Flair the wrestler, not Ric Flair the wrestler trying to get plugs into other mediums of entertainment.


Oh man, 1995 was forever etched in stone for me after that Hogpen match. for some reason, that marked the point where my interest for the product reached an all time low. That, and the guy that came out with an airguitar and looked like a retard every other week. Not many found memories out of the midcard, and imo they had the wrong guy on top (a guy that got paid less than a multitude of other talent as CHAMPION). It just seemed to me like Vince was throwing his Spaghetti at the wall until something stuck, and not giving much of a swing during his proverbial throw. Warrior was just awesome. The very first time I seen the WWF live as a VERY young kid he had a bodybag match against Taker, 'twas the greatest thing since Moses parted the waters. True story. Warrior was great for what he needed to be, and he fit the times. WCW NOSTALGIA FTW (that thread needs to be revived, whichever one it was)


Montreal has a tendency to go nuts over wrestling, after all it IS a "wrestling" town with a very rich history. Desecrating the flag doesnt earn you brownie points. I'm actually surprised no one jumped the guardrail and no objects were thrown. Remains a mystery as to how we kept our cool that night while the match took place.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MAN MOUNTAIN ROCK > DWAYNE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^:lol

KOK you got any picks for top 2012 RAW matches? I'll take what you got off the top of your head. I'm going through the quality matches right now and trying to decipher which are my top picks. Already slammed through Punker vs Danielson from 5/28. A forgotten gem between the two. It never gets mentioned.

Ah crap. Only saw blarg responded to my last post. :$


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Yeah, i'm sneaky like that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just RAW ? I'll have a go for sure.

1/2 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler
1/30 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
2/20 Sheamus vs Mark Henry (3 Minutes long, check it out)
2/27 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
3/5 Punk/Sheamus vs Bryan/Jericho
3/19 John Cena vs Mark Henry 
4/2 CM Punk vs Mark Henry
4/16 CM Punk vs Mark Henry
5/28 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
6/11 DOLPH vs Swagger vs Christian vs Khali

There's my first half list of stuff you have to watch. Alot of Punk, but last year was HIS YEAR so YEAH unk2.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Great batch of matches again KOK, I thought I was the biggest lover of HBK/Cena :mark: should be high on my list as well. 

Ill be posting up 29 and 28 on my list tomorrow, so may everyone enjoy and discuss.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't wait for guys like you and Cal to start posting their top Wrestlemania matches. The more the merrier, so I can eventually compose them all into one thread wide list post Mania .

Just finished Summerslam 2002 of my BROCK project, perhaps my favorite match ever honestly. Hoping to start and finish the entire Undertaker arc tomorrow as it's one of my personal favorites for sure. We're at Summerslam 2002 and Brock still doesn't have a match that's bad or not fun in any way, shape, or form. I'm predicting less than 5 bad Brock matches in his entire WWE career, maybe he'll have a few bad NJPW ones, but who knows really with BROCK.

:brock


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer if I get my back side in gear might have 27 and 26 done as well in the next 12 hours. Clue for match number 29 on my list it has :HHH and his epic smirk :mark: 

Fuck I adore Summerslam 2002 my favourite PPV ever, love that Rock/Brock match. Your right Brock is really incapable of having a bad match, the guy is just a straight up beast. 

:brock


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Which title reign do you guys think was more pointless, Triple H's WWE Championship reign in 2008 or Undertaker's WHC reign in 2009?

I didn't know why either guy won the championship, I know their Veterans but Triple H at the time already won over 10 world championships. He sure as hell didn't need another one. Taker didn't really need the title aswell, He already proclaimed himself as a solidified legend and has an unmatched wining streak at WM which might i add is more valuable than any title. It would have been beneficial if they had allowed a younger talent secure a title reign. 

Bonus Question: Which was your favorite Undertaker and Triple H World title reign?

Taker - His 2002 reign as the ABA is my personal favorite. The promos, interviews, feuds and the matches were all awesome and the reign was of decent length too.

Triple H - The WHC reign in 2003 - 2004 was probably his best considering he had Evolution as his stable and was a bonified heel who was booed by all and attracted major heat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Just RAW ? I'll have a go for sure.
> 
> 1/2 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler
> 1/30 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
> ...


Right that 4 way Elimination lingers about. I'll get on that one right now actually. I own every RAW on DVD up until the post WM show. Following that I have to press my luck with streaming sites. So, I can give the Sheamus vs Henry match another go. I recall being mad when it only got 3 minutes. Cena vs Henry was another I was fine with, only it was too short. If you got a latter half bring it on. :side:

Punker vs Kane from 6/4 is an underrated gem imo.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Punker vs Kane from 6/4 is an underrated gem imo.


Yer I agree such an underrated gem, did KOK put Cena/Bryan on that list? I can remember it being quite solid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah it was after his cut off. Cena vs Danielson OWNS. Definitely need to give it another go around.

The gasp from the crowd the moment Henry's music hit right now was epic. Fans know Henry means business.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

We definitely need a Cena/Bryan on PPV this year :mark: :mark: :mark: 

Let me think other great raw matches from 2012

Sheamus/Bryan street fight :mark: 

I recall a great Bryan/Ziggler match as well last year.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Sheamus is so underrated it isn't even funny. While I do feel that Sheamus/Bryan at ER was a little overrated, I think they both have the best chemistry outside of Cena/Punk. They just gel and have gelled since that first match they _really_ had in 2010. That street fight they had was so damn good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. Sheamus vs Danielson was watched as soon as I began this venture. Great match. Would have been even better if it got more time to deliver. I'll second their fantastic chemistry.

Sheamus is the man. He stole the latter half of WWE last year. MOTW every single week for idk how long. It was absurd the quality he was pumping out.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Sheamus/Bryan chemistry is fantastic, it's absurd that they never got the chance to tear it up at Wrestlemania 27 or 28. Fuck you Vince.

If Sheamus' mic work and character wasn't so stale and uninteresting the guy could of been the Wrestler of the year for 2012, he tore it up every week, and had the MOTW near every week especially in the last 6 months of the year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His character is fine enough. Not exciting, sure. I don't have any serious gripes with it. He's one of the guys who made 2012 his year. Even with the sham of a moment at WrestleMania.

So, finished CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Triple Threat Elimination Match from 6/25. Have to say, it's a boat load of fun. Those guys continue to do work. ***

I wished I wasn't going at it in such a haphazard way right now. Maybe I can find a way to download these one by one. Make things easier. Then again, I am only giving the matches I know to have potential a chance. Certainly a Kofi Kingston match won't make the cut unless it was the 12/10 match which proved to be a near brilliant carry job.

Wonder if there is another 4 star match hidden about. Don't believe so. Got four total on my list right now. Don't think the Cena/Punk match from 11/12 was quite up to that level.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sheamus would have probably been the best worker for WWE in 2012 if Danielson didn't have his all star showing in that TLC to bump him up. Other than Dragon, Sheamus is WWE WOTY for last year. He's really building a hell of a career; he has the matches, the performances, the feuds, the consistency, the diversity of gimmick matches, good face worker, good heel worker, can look good at any time, can have a good match with anyone, and hopefully he just keeps getting better. He's getting opportunities too unlike the McIntyres of the world who have everything down but aren't getting a fair shake. At this point I think I'd already take Sheamus over some wrestlers who have good ring-work reputations over the past 10+ years. Seems like one of the guys who could be an easy top 100 US all time by the end of his career (100 sounds like it isn't saying much but there are A LOT of very good wrestlers in history). Can't believe there was a time where I found him bland.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

CODY have you watched Punk/Show yet? I remember a match around Summerslam between them being quite good. 

Damn all these little gems making me want to go back and make a best tv match list from last year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Sheamus would have probably been the best worker for WWE in 2012 if Danielson didn't have his all star showing in that TLC to bump him up. Other than Dragon, Sheamus is WWE WOTY for last year. He's really building a hell of a career; he has the matches, the performances, the feuds, the consistency, the diversity of gimmick matches, good face worker, good heel worker, can look good at any time, can have a good match with anyone, and hopefully he just keeps getting better. He's getting opportunities too unlike the McIntyres of the world who have everything down but aren't getting a fair shake. At this point I think I'd already take Sheamus over some wrestlers who have good ring-work reputations over the past 10+ years. Seems like one of the guys who could be an easy top 100 US all time by the end of his career (100 sounds like it isn't saying much but there are A LOT of very good wrestlers in history). Can't believe there was a time where I found him bland.


Yeah1993.

Ok, really though amen to all of it. Sheamus is fabulous in nearly every capacity you need him to be/have. He's even gotten attached to the quality of usually bringing out the good in opponents too. He gives his bouts a certain x factor. From titanic clashes vs Henry & Show, to a hybrid of tactical & grappling vs the likes of Danielson or Punk. And everything in between. Sheamus is top notch. Absolutely one of the most complete on the current roster. Smokes so many.



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> CODY have you watched Punk/Show yet? I remember a match around Summerslam between them being quite good.
> 
> Damn all these little gems making me want to go back and make a best tv match list from last year.


Crazy. I was about to check out stuff from the 7/16 RAW as it is thanks to Punker vs Show. I'll go after said match next. (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CODY




i'm so high.

nagata (sp?) vs ultimo dragon was good from some ppv in 1997 that u told me to watch yesterday


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Has to be Havoc. They had a rematch at WW3 and it wasn't one I recommended so process by elimination works again. 8*D

CM Punk vs Big Show from 7/16/12 = FUN. _(***1/4)_

The DQ ending by knocking down the ref was a bit bleh. The content was more than enough to hold up. Finally got a Punk vs Show match longer than 5 minutes. 9 minutes this time around. It pays off. Man, was I the only one who forgot how great these crowds were at the time? They loved this stuff. Faces were mad over and heel were hated. It's a lot of fun. What happened to WWE in the later months of 2012? Usually WWE turns it up around that time. Outside of the usual suspects & the rise of Cesaro it wasn't anything to take note of. The Summer & early fall seemed to be fun point of the year. Pardon the shaky moments of May with the Johnny Ace vs Cena crap & those horrible RAWs.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Good to see it still holds up as a solid match Punk/Show. 

Just remembered Sheamus/Cesaro from raw :mark: if I'm correct there were like 2 other matches of that raw that were solid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Mysterio vs Danielson & Cena vs Ziggler were both (Y) too. Sheamus vs Cesaro was the topper on the 11/26 RAW for me though. One of my personal favorite from last year.

I remember how excited I got while watching that RAW. Couldn't believe it was heavy on the wrestling. Only match that was truly abrupt was the Divas so nobody cared. Even Del Rio vs Khali went 3:35 :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

omg watching the last raw of 1997 and HBK vs Owen Hart is announced; IS THIS MATCH GOOD?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another match that i love, thought id upload it too here:

*Triple-H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania 17):*

https://hotfile.com/dl/196382905/72440d4/Taker-HHH_-_WM17.avi.html


From the WWF WM17 DVD, thus being unedited music, logo etc!!! - Includes buildup/promo video.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer I remember wondering if I was watching raw or not, so much quality wrestling on the show. I echo that, I'm pretty sure Sheamus/Cesaro was the pick of the bunch. We need to see more of Cesaro/Sheamus on SD this year (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> omg watching the last raw of 1997 and HBK vs Owen Hart is announced; IS THIS MATCH GOOD?


I was talking about that match last night. For the life of me do not recall it. Considering the two involved, it HAS to be worth something.



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Yer I remember wondering if I was watching raw or not, so much quality wrestling on the show. I echo that, I'm pretty sure Sheamus/Cesaro was the pick of the bunch. We need to see more of Cesaro/Sheamus on SD this year (Y)


I wouldn't object to a program between the two in 2013.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I wouldn't object to a program between the two in 2013.


Neither if we can't get that, once team friendship breaks up I wouldn't mind Bryan/Cesaro :mark:


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Undertaker/Punk:

Breaking Point - **1/2
SD 25/09/2009 - **
Hell in a Cell - *** (Short but very good match)
SD 23/10/2009 - ***1/2
SD 10/09/2010 - ***1/2 (Great story telling from Taker in this match)
SD 01/10/2010 - *1/2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

the artist formerly known as goldust :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Neither if we can't get that, once team friendship breaks up I wouldn't mind Bryan/Cesaro :mark:


:mark:

So many possibilities right now.

Here is a fun fact: Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler has only happened 12 times. Once in 2011. TEN times in 2012. Once in 2013. I thought it would have been more. Sheamus is nearly tied in matches vs Wade Barrett and that program is much more recent. In the mist of finding out some quality RAW 2012 bouts I should see how all of the Sheamus/Dolph matches fare. I recall most. I know there is a hidden match on Smackdown post No Way Out I need to see. If all change it up I'll appreciate the effort to make the bouts different. All usually are well worth the watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really hope the HHH/Brock match is a street fight/unsanctioned/no frills match-up rather than just a standard singles match again, it has to have a different feel to it.........surely.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> I really hope the HHH/Brock match is a street fight/unsanctioned/no frills match-up rather than just a standard singles match again, it has to have a different feel to it.........surely.


Agreed. If it was no holds barred etc and was anything like their brawl on Raw I'd be very happy. Just let them tear each other apart.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KOK's Top 10-6:

Piper/Bret - Never seen it
Rock/Austin - ****1/2
Flair/Savage - ****1/4
HHH/Taker - ***1/2
Cena/HBK - ****

Rock/Austin and Flair/Savage are in good spots, Cena/HBK is pretty high for me, and Taker/HHH is way too high for me. Gotta be honest, while I understand why someone would have it pretty high, and I still don't get it being better than the WM28 match as that seems to trump it in everything (imo). Oh well, you did say there would be some surprises.

Top 10-6:

(****1/2)
10) Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20
9) HBK/Angle WM21
8) Taker/Batista WM23
(****3/4)
7) HBK/Razor WM10
6) HBK/Jericho WM19

HBK mah gawd!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII) ****1/2 
Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX) ****1/4
Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII) ****1/2
The Undertaker vs Triple H (No Holds Barred ; Wrestlemania XXVII) **** (REALLY need a rewatch)
John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII) ****3/4 (agree with KOK on this, fucking loved it, HBK was fantastic)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania Matches of all time*


*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)*


*"Until you go through me you cannot lay claim to being anything in this business other then a step below me" Triple H*












This match reminds me alot of Chris Jericho vs Triple H at Wrestlemania 18, the match and workrate is solid however where the fans couldnt give a crap about that match, they were alive and chanting something for the entire duration of this match. The crowd made this match, and makes it such fun to watch. Chicago a crowd notorious for cheering the bad guy, certainly let Cena have it. Chain wrestling at the start which draws you cant wrestle chants to Cena, the games smirk here was glorious. Everything the Game did they cheered, mind you thats not saying much when I believe Osama on this night would of got cheered more then Cena, ok maybe not but still. This is really the standard for a WWE main event match, hot crowd not alot of technical wrestling, but a clear story, HHH outwrestled Cena at every turn because well basically he is the better wrestler. Every punch every counter draw a reaction, which had me sucked in every second. Loved the ending sequence, especially the counter at the end with HHH going for the pedigree, but Cena out wrestled him with the drop toe hold and STFU. The face on some of the fans when HHH tapped was hilarious. If it wasnt for the crowd id probably drop this at least 1 star, but it safes to say on this night WWE shoving Cena down our throat helped, indirectly of course. A worthy Wrestlemania main event in my eyes, this isnt everyones cup of tea but I loved it. 

***** *​

*28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)​*
*"At Wrestlemania Edge, you will find out that the truth hurts" Mick Foley​*







Probably the most fun I had reviewing all of the Wrestlemanias, so easy to watch with fast paced action for 15 minutes. Everyone loves a good hardcore match, and basically a match like this with Mick has become the norm for getting over and noticed. So many great spots in this, its hard to pick them out, if you know me though nothing puts a smile on my face more then a foley bump to the stairs. This match was brutal, Edge had a nasty cut on his arm from when he speared Foley who was actually covered in barbwire (ohhh how I love you Mick). So many great things in this match these guys went out to steal the show and have a WM moment, and they certainly did. The flaming table spot is one of the most iconic images in WM history. This was the start of big things for Edge, and he owes it to Mick, just like he did for HHH and Orton he put over Edge huge here. Thank you Mick, for sacrificing your life for this business. An amazing match, that certainly deserves its place on this list.

*****​*

Im off to bed now nearly 1 in the morning here, so when I decide to wake up ill post another 2. Don't worry ill link my list up like KOK so everyone can keep track of my list. Drop your thoughts and ratings if you wish, even though most have already when KOK started posting his list, and like KOK said hope others will join in and make their own lists as well so we can get thread wide Wrestlemania match discussion.

Good night and GOD Bless unk2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wait a second... WHAT TIME IS IT OVER THERE ?!?!?!

Great two to start it off by the way, as the list gets better and better the more Triple H matches appear on it . I have watched so many BROCK matches the past two days that it's kind of ridiculous, but I'm going to try to blow through the whole Taker arc tomorrow and see where that brings me.. That means what I'll be watching today is :

Aug 29 SD vs Matt Hardy
Sep 5 vs Randy Orton
Sep 12 vs Hardcore Holly 
Sep 19 vs John Cena
UNF 02 vs Undertaker
Oct 10 W/Tajiri vs Mysterio/Edge
Oct 17 vs Chuck Palumbo
NM 02 vs Undertaker

Still no bad/not fun BROCK matches at this point :brock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finished watching WM 9. It isn't horrible, but it isn't good either. In the middle ish so far. Tag match (not the tag titles match) was easily the MOTN. And fuck, THAT COUNTER is still fresh in my mind. I can see that making the top 10 WM moments list for my video . And speaking of my video, I'm gonna be a cunt and do my top 50 WM matches countdown on here... then stop at #11 and let you watch the video to see the top 10 (or one of you... then post the list on here... cunt) .

WM X time. At least I know I have a ***** match to look forward to, as well as the ladder match. No Undertaker on it sucks though. But apparently he was in JAPAN at the time since they didn't really have any place for him as he was injured prior to WM too and they didn't want to throw him in with anyone (what, no Gonzalez re-rematch?).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> But apparently he was in JAPAN at the time .


 Didnt know that, did he have any matches over there then?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Didnt know that, did he have any matches over there then?


No, he just went for a holiday... :side:. Of course he did lol. I have 2 or 3 house shows from 94 WWF shows in Japan. He had a tag against Yoku and Bam Bam when he teamed with... TENRYU. UNDERTAKER AND TENRYU ON THE SAME TEAM.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I thought The Undertaker was dead after Yokozuna and all those wrestlers killed him at the Royal Rumble.

Right?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He came back to life obviously.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> No, he just went for a holiday... :side:. Of course he did lol. I have 2 or 3 house shows from 94 WWF shows in Japan. He had a tag against Yoku and Bam Bam when he teamed with... TENRYU. UNDERTAKER AND TENRYU ON THE SAME TEAM.




Never knew he worked Japan tbh  , 

Found a couple on Youtube:

*Undertaker vs. Haku 1992 (In Japan) *





*M-Pro 10.10.1997 - The Undertaker vs Jinsei Shinzaki *


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Awesome vids! Thanks for posting!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not even going to lie CAL no matter how creepy this sounds, the other day I was bored as shit so I started watching a shitload of your videos, must have been like 10 of them or something and I legit fucking died laughing at a "Tag Team Match" joke with Teddy and Booker, and I mean like.... Fucking hysterically laughing too.

Might do this shit with ever PPV, it'll give me an excuse to fill up my DVD collection even more than it already is .

YEAH so apparently Matt Hardy loves pain and torture like the sick fucker he is because there's no reason to have him get destroyed by Lesnar this much, unreal. I come off as really repetitive in alot of my BROCK reviews because alot of matches are essentially just him destroying somebody in spectacular fashion like Hardy, Rikishi, Orton, etc. His squashes are fun and his actual even matches are terrific so far. Although the next match is a TV match against Bob fucking Holly so you never know.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> I thought The Undertaker was dead after Yokozuna and all those wrestlers killed him at the Royal Rumble.
> 
> Right?


Well, grey-gloves Undertaker died at the Rumble. Purple-gloves Undertaker came back at Summerslam. ITS A DIFFERENT UNDERTAKER :cool2

But seriously, I had no idea Undertaker was in Japan at that time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As I mentioned a couple of days ago, WWF had a working relationship with Japan in the early 90's, hence the likes of TENRYU showing up for a couple of RR matches and even a tag match at WM, some other guys too, and they did a supershow as well with WWF Vs Japan, pretty sure Bret's match there is on his new set?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks Zep (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched BROCK-Cena I from September 19th 2003, the go home show for Unforgiven. Cena literally doesn't get one single move of offense in an entire 6 minute long match and it's still fucking awesome. Just realized that the guy who reminds me of BROCK the most in the WWE now is Antonio Cesaro in the sense that there's one thing from every one of his matches that makes you go "HOLY SHIT". Brock seems to be incapable of having a bad match heading into Unforgiven 2002.

Watching the hype video for this made me realize just how much I loved this feud and not just the two classic matches. Undertaker's intensity and Brock's monster like features and cold mindset made for some compelling segments such as the one with Brock/Sara/Taker/Heyman that just gets me every time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone have any thoughts on the Rock/Taker/Kane/Benoit 4-way from Unforgiven 2000, cant say i remember it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on the Rock/Taker/Kane/Benoit 4-way from Unforgiven 2000, cant say i remember it.


Its... decent. Watchable. Fun. Nothing more.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Unforgiven 4-way I have at 3 stars. Pretty much what Cal said.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Its... decent. Watchable. Fun. Nothing more.





The Rawk said:


> Unforgiven 4-way I have at 3 stars. Pretty much what Cal said.


 Thanks guys, i was just looking at my Unforgiven 2000/No Mercy 2000 DVD and saw it and just didnt remember it at all


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on the Rock/Taker/Kane/Benoit 4-way from Unforgiven 2000, cant say i remember it.


I think it's awesome. Only wish Benoit had kept the belt when he pinned Taker even with his foot on the rope.

KOK's WM list:

Roddy Piper vs Bret Hart - N/A
Stone Cold vs The ROCK (WM19) - ★★★★½
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage - N/A
Undertaker vs Triple H (WM27) - ★★★¾ (need rewatch too)
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★½ (need rewatch)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KOK's WM list:

Roddy Piper vs Bret Hart - Find out later .
Stone Cold vs The ROCK (WM19) - ****1/2
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage - Find out later .
Undertaker vs Triple H (WM27) - ****3/4
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - ***3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Rock vs Kurt Angle (No Mercy 2000)*

Tagged Classic unedited version (unblurred etc):

https://hotfile.com/dl/196435774/75b981f/rock-angle_-_no_mercy2000.avi.html

Uploaded it for someone else, in case anyone here needs it.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey guys how is the Clash of the Champions 3 disc set. The match listing is good, but it's relatively short.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't buy it if you already own a handful of sets such as The Flair and Steamboat sets.

Besides the big matches on the sets there's nothing really worth going out of your way to see. Alot of the matches piss me the fuck off since we didn't get Vader vs Dustin but we did get Mascaras vs Cactus Jack so that they could pay Masacaras some DVD royalties in exchange for him joining the hall of fame. BULLSHIT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> No, he just went for a holiday... :side:. Of course he did lol. I have 2 or 3 house shows from 94 WWF shows in Japan. He had a tag against Yoku and Bam Bam when he teamed with... TENRYU. UNDERTAKER AND TENRYU ON THE SAME TEAM.


AND NOBODY HAS A LINK? DON'T TEASE ME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I COULD upload it. But I'm sure someone else has already done it. Go look and shit. [/lazy]


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

_*Rated RKO vs DX (New Year's Revolution 2007)*

Finally got around to watching this match. During Orton's only ever period as a tag team wrestler. Him and Edge have been brutalizing fan favorites left and right and it's time for DX to give them a taste of their own medicine. Starts off violent with DX interrupting Rated RKO's entrance and attacking them outside the ring then Edge and HBK become the legal men inside. It's mostly standard tag action from then on with HBK being the face in peril as Edge and Orton tag in and out. Orton gets bloodied early in the match after a legdrop and returns the favor to HBK by hitting him with tag team belts behind referee's back on the outside. When Triple H finally gets the hot-tag, he starts taking control and as he gives Orton a Spinebuster, the well known quad tear on his left leg happens which slows down the match from that point and forces them to improvise. Match was going very well and it's a shame they had to redo the finish because of the injury but much respect to HHH because he continues to do his part for about 10 minutes with a torn quad including giving Pedigrees. The only real problem is the RKO Orton tries to give him looks awful because he couldn't take the bump properly. HBK goes crazy and hits the referee then brings out two chairs which they use to beat the shit out of Rated RKO. Then the action moves towards the announce tables as HHH has the will to Pedigree Edge on it while a super-bloody Orton takes an Elbow Drop from HBK. DX leave after that and without a proper finish, that's it. A very fun and violent match that was a victim of circumstances which ruins the finish and leaves it out in the open. ★★★¾_


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

chris jericho vs eddie guerrero at fall brawl 97 about to watch, did people like?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I like Bret/Michaels (Iron Man Match). There was a time when I considered it 5-stars, but over the years, I've gone down. I still have it around the four star mark.

And, 'Taker/Trips (27) > 'Taker/Trips (28)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> chris jericho vs eddie guerrero at fall brawl 97 about to watch, did people like?


Just about the second best cruiserweight championship match in WCW history. Feels like we were talking about this elsewhere. 8*D


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GO WATCH HALLOWEEN HAVOC '97.

b/c that idea magically popped into my head RIGHT NOW.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Razor King said:


> I like Bret/Michaels (Iron Man Match). There was a time when I considered it 5-stars, but over the years, I've gone down. I still have it around the four star mark.
> 
> And, *'Taker/Trips (27) > 'Taker/Trips (28)*


I agree. Anyways moving onto Taker/Punk at WM29. Anyone else hoping they go for the technical route in the match. You know, counter each others moves and try to match each other hold for hold. All that good stuff and recreating the masterpieces that were Taker/Edge WM24, Taker/Angle NWO 2006 and Taker/Bret Summerslam/One Night instead of suspenseful ones like Taker/HBK WM25/WM26, Taker/Triple H WM27/WM28.

Speaking of technical matches by The Undertaker, Which do you think is the best out of the three i mentioned above?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Punk could work a completely interesting match that fuses a number of styles into one match. The prospect of it is exciting.

Taker vs Angle is the standout match listed. Match vs Edge at Mania is great. Had a quality story behind it. Much like everyone else out there, the chemistry brought by Taker & Angle is wonderful and blended to make a match that had every single person on the edge of their seats.

Don't like the Undertaker vs Bret matches much. I've stated this about 10 times now. Maybe their Rumble match has the '97 affairs beat. Don't know. Don't own it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> GO WATCH HALLOWEEN HAVOC '97.
> 
> b/c that idea magically popped into my head RIGHT NOW.


ITS LIKE YOU KNEW WHAT I WAS THINKING


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Angle NWO 06 is the best and a ***** classic. Taker/Bret Summerslam I'd put second, ONO I don't know, and Taker/Edge would be last. The three matches I do know are all fantastic though.

Anyway, I do wonder what route they'll go with Taker/Punk. I think it's dependent on where they go with Lesnar/HHH. If they go with an all-out brawl (like they should), then I can see Taker/Punk being more storytelling base with the story being built up around Taker and that he's weakened over the years (kind of continuing what they did with Kane, but more due to the brutality he's endured rather than mystical vegetative state inducing reasons). They could play that to Punk's advantage, but what they'd need to do is have Punk get the better of Taker one Raw before WM to prove this to put some doubt in casuals' minds. That's the best I could see them doing.

If Lesnar/HHH goes the storytelling route... which would be terrible considering the options, I can't see them doing the same for Taker/Punk. If that's the case I see Taker/Punk being a more technical match, maybe similar to Punk/Orton WM27 and Taker/HBK WM26 with Punk working on the knees and it being based around psychology. 

Maybe they'll do a mix. Either way, I'm looking forward to Taker/Punk. Could be a classic if given the time and Taker's in as good of shape as he appeared in that house show match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> ITS LIKE YOU KNEW WHAT I WAS THINKING


GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE. WRESTLING SYNERGY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Angle NWO 06 - ****3/4
Taker/Bret ONO - ****1/2
Taker/Edge WM 24 - ****1/2

Taker/Bret RR was 96 not 97 ya half wit, Cody. **** for it. You'll hate it.

Eddie/Jericho is epicawesomesauce. Second best Jericho match ever? I think it is. Go watch Eddie/Rey HH 97 like Cody said, whoever he said it to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Taker/Angle NWO 06 - ****3/4
> Taker/Bret ONO - ****1/2
> Taker/Edge WM 24 - ****1/2
> 
> ...


I KNEW THAT. JUST MENTIONED THEIR RUMBLE MATCH WAS STILL OUT THERE TO COMPARE.

Stupid caps lock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No, Stupid Cody .

Uhhh... Taker/HBK ***** on topic and shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ahhhhhhhh

Hey Undertaker vs Shawn. Now that's a series I mark for. Talking about their matches beats having to watch a Charlie Haas match in 2013 right now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm amazed that they never had a singles match anywhere but PPV (don't even think they had a house show singles match either). WWE always end up doing big matches on TV at some point, usually a little while after they've been on PPV.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Nothing will beat HBK/Taker WM 25. GOAT match, idk how anyone doesn't have it at *****


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

VERY late to the party but whatever :$

Cena/Punk Raw 25/2/13

I LOVED this. The back and forth nature of the match sat well with me, with submissions dominating the match early on and steadily the match built to a climatic finale. Props to WWE for releasing a video of the FULL match because it was excellent. 
Yes we all knew the winner before hand but that didn't stop it from being a great match.

Everytime these two are in the ring together it's money. pure fucking class. For once this year the crowd were fantastic and really added to the match and surprisingly the commentary didn't take anything away (i know this would be harsh on any match but sometimes Cole & Lawler just ruin the experience for me)

I would call this my MOTY so far with no doubts in my mind, i was thoroughly entertained and just want this feud again and again and again.

******


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Nothing will beat HBK/Taker WM 25. GOAT match, idk how anyone doesn't have it at *****


I have it at ****3/4, I only have 3 ***** Undertaker matches and they are Taker/Angle SD 2003, Taker/Batista WM23 and Taker/HBK Bad Blood 1997.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

he said it to me CAL. keep up bro


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I have it at ****3/4, I only have 3 ***** Undertaker matches and they are Taker/Angle SD 2003, Taker/Batista WM23 and Taker/HBK Bad Blood 1997.




Completely disagree. Taker/Batista was no more than a ****	match and I'll have to get back to you on angle/taker from SD. I'm sure it's good but *****? Doubtful.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I have three Undertaker matches at 5 stars and they are all with Shawn Michaels. Best opponents ever for each other.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Taker/Batista is AWESOME.

Just a brilliant big man brawl for the World Title.

*****1/4*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i meant nagata vs ultimo from halloween havoc not fall brawl. my mistake. good match./


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Taker/Batista is an amazing clash of the titans type battle. The pace they set and how they just threw bombs at each other is what really makes it so special. 4.5 stars


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

My undertaker 5 star matches would be: 

Taker/HBK WM 25
Taker/Angle NWO 06
Taker/HBK badd blood 97
Taker/Edge WM 24 (may be a little homer to edge for that but this match was pure greatness IMO)


That's it. Taker/HBK WM 26 would be ****1/2 for me.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Completely disagree. Taker/Batista was no more than a ****	match and I'll have to get back to you on angle/taker from SD. I'm sure it's good but *****? Doubtful.


Taker/Batista is a 5 star match, It was just amazing to see what two men of their size could do (suicide dive, running powerslam through the announce table) and i honestly thought with that batista bomb he would have of ended the streak.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker ***** matches:

Vs HBK HIAC ******************
Vs HBK WM 26 *****
Vs HBK WM 25 *****

Is that it? Anyone verify this shit for me? Someone usually always corrects me. No, Vengeance 3 way isn't ***** for me any more. That's it.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Taker/Batista is a 5 star match, It was just amazing to see what two men of their size could do (suicide dive, running powerslam through the announce table) and i honestly thought with that batista bomb he would have of ended the streak.




I have it at **** flat. It was a good match don't get me wrong. And there was no way Batista was beating taker lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah that's it. All of my top 5 Mania matches are five stars anyways so I'm not giving shit away. I have to finish my list tonight but I'm lazy as fuck and have yet to study for an Anthropology Midterm that I have tomorrow night (YES, A MIDTERM ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. FUCK), so I don't know how that's exactly going to work out for yours truly.

Undertaker has 8 MOTY's under his belt in my opinion by the way (BB 97, RR 98, FL 99, NM 02, NWO 06, WM XXIV, WM XXV, WM XXVI) with Shawn having 6 (BB 97, RR 98, WM XX, WM XXIII, WM XXV, WM XXVI) and GAME having 3 and CENA having 3.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't even give Undertaker/Shawn WM 26 the full 5. So it seems I only have two 5 star matches for Taker. That doesn't sound right to me, but I guess it is.

So many excellent matches follow it. His great consistency is the key here. Fuxin UNDERTAKER.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

just watched eddie./rey. fucking great match. 

EDDIE 97' :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

As i see as well, my top 5 matches on my Wrestlemania list are all 5 stars.

My next 2 matches should be up soon.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

There not a big man who comes close to being in undertakers league. That's for sure.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ALEX WRIGHT vs Mongo


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Career vs Streak was out of this freaking world to witness live. So much emotion riding on a brilliantly wrestled main event. I'm pretty much a mark for every little thing in that match down to Taker struggling to get himself up with ropes toward the end of the match. And OMG the finish!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> just watched eddie./rey. fucking great match.
> 
> EDDIE 97' :mark:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bo91_faces-of-fear-vs-chris-jericho-eddi_sport#.UTAeyDAziSo

You watched this? You gotta watch this. You HAVE to watch this.

I'm going to ask for top ten Nitro matches in the WCW thread. BE THERE OR BE NOT THERE.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'LL BE THERE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUCK.

I don't know what I can plug for a 10 ten. Maybe a few tag matches off the top of my head is all I can add. Wait, some more are popping up after all.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DDP matches :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Batista- ****1/2, MOTY 2007. A classic.

***** Taker matches:

vs. HBK BB97
vs. HBK WM25
vs. Angle NWO 2006

Tied for most ***** matches with Austin and Bret. HBK's at two (take a guess which ones  ) and Angle has two.

# of MOTY's for each of these wrestlers:

Taker- 8(vs. HBK RR 98, vs. Austin FL 99, vs. Lesnar NM 02, vs. Angle NWO 06, vs. Batista WM23, vs. Edge SS 08, vs. HBK WM25, vs. HBK WM26)
HBK- 4 (vs. Taker RR 98, vs. Angle WM21, vs. Taker WM25, vs. Taker WM26)
Austin- 4 (vs. Bret SVS 1996, vs. Bret WM13, vs. Taker FL 99, vs. Rock WM17)
Bret Hart- 3 (vs. Owen Hart WM10, vs. Austin SVS 1996, vs. Austin WM13)
Angle- 3(vs. Benoit RR 2003 (GOAT), vs. HBK WM21, vs. Taker NWO 2006)
Punk- 2 (vs. Cena MITB 2011, vs. Bryan OTL 2012)
HHH- 1(vs. Foley RR 2000)
Cena- 1 (vs. CM Punk MITB 2011)
Rock-1 (vs. Austin WM17)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bo91_faces-of-fear-vs-chris-jericho-eddi_sport#.UTAeyDAziSo
> 
> You watched this? You gotta watch this. You HAVE to watch this.
> 
> I'm going to ask for top ten Nitro matches in the WCW thread. BE THERE OR BE NOT THERE.


I could post a list there. Or I could post it here. So I will.

Top 10 WCW Nitro matches according to the top 100 Poll:

01. Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999
02. Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 16/10/1995
03. Chris Benoit Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 04/10/1999
04. Lord Steven Regal Vs Fit Finlay - Nitro 29/04/1996
05. Ric Flair Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 20/05/1996
06. Faces of Fear Vs Chris Jericho & Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 24/02/1997
07. Kidman Vs Rey Mysterio - Monday Nitro 15/03/1999
08. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson Vs Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage - Nitro 08/01/1996
09. Goldberg Vs Diamond Dallas Page – Nitro 19/04/1999
10. Lord Steven Regal Vs Psicosis - Nitro 16/12/1996

Only the top 5 made it into the top 100.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Rawk said:


> Taker/Batista- ****1/2, MOTY 2007. A classic.
> 
> ***** Taker matches:
> 
> ...


What vs. Orton at Armageddon 2005 inside HIAC?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

that ddp/sting match is :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> What vs. Orton at Armageddon 2005 inside HIAC?


You mean to ask what about that match?

Comes in at number 7 for the year. 2005 was a pretty awesome year though. Top 10 for 2005 are:

1) HBK/Angle WM21
2) Batista/HHH Vengeance 
3) HBK/Benjamin Raw 2005 Gold Rush
4) Edge/Matt Hardy Unforgiven
5) Taker/Orton WM21
6) MITB WM21
7) Taker/Orton Armageddon
8) EC NYR
9) Cena/JBL JD
10) Taker/Orton SD

All at least ****1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finlay vs Regal Parking Lot Brawl could possibly be my #1 for best Nitro match.

No lie.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DDP VS STING :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah that's it. All of my top 5 Mania matches are five stars anyways so I'm not giving shit away. I have to finish my list tonight but I'm lazy as fuck and have yet to study for an Anthropology Midterm that I have tomorrow night (YES, A MIDTERM ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. FUCK), so I don't know how that's exactly going to work out for yours truly.
> 
> Undertaker has 8 MOTY's under his belt in my opinion by the way (BB 97, RR 98, FL 99, NM 02, NWO 06, WM XXIV, WM XXV, WM XXVI) with Shawn having 6 (BB 97, RR 98, WM XX, WM XXIII, WM XXV, WM XXVI) and GAME having 3 and CENA having 3.


What three do you have for Cena?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2007 : vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
2011 : vs CM Punk (MITB 2011)
2012 : vs BROCK FUCKING LESNAR (ER 2012)

Two of those would be in my top 10 WWF/WWE matches ever while HBK-Cena would be found in the lower side of my top 20. All fantastic matches, proof that when Cena turns it on that there's barely anybody in the company that's better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Willing to bet he'll say vs Umaga Rumble '07, vs Punk MITB '11, & vs Brock Extreme Rules '12.

Lets see if I'm correct.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> You mean to ask what about that match?
> 
> Comes in at number 7 for the year. 2005 was a pretty awesome year though. Top 10 for 2005 are:
> 
> ...




No cena/Jericho at summerslam eh? I thought that was an awesome match. Back n fourth, good exchange, great crowd as well.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Willing to bet he'll say vs Umaga Rumble '07, vs Punk MITB '11, & vs Brock Extreme Rules '12.
> 
> Lets see if I'm correct.


66%! haha


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

66 Percent.

I EXPECTED MORE OUT OF YOU.

.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

xdoomsayerx said:


> No cena/Jericho at summerslam eh? I thought that was an awesome match. Back n fourth, good exchange, great crowd as well.


Great match, ***1/2, but nah. Wouldn't crack my top 20 for the year either. Maybe top 30.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn that Shawn Michaels match at WrestleMania. Foiled my chance to sweep the board.


----------



## blink_41sum_182 (Apr 9, 2011)

Someone mentioned Umaga vs. John Cena Last Man Standing in the 2013 MOTYC thread and I never saw it so I just watched it:

**** 1/4

Wow. I never was a fan of Umaga and am not usually a huge fan of limb/particular area of the body work but it worked great here. The blood spot and the tv monitor looked totally believable and the announce table spot was great. One of the best Cena matches I've seen. Glad I went back and checked this out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

REDEEM YOURSELF :gaga

5 non 1-on-1 Matches (All Time WWF/WWE) Rated @ ***** 3/4+*.

What five matches would these be (Expecting at least a 80) ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> REDEEM YOURSELF :gaga
> 
> 5 non 1-on-1 Matches (All Time WWF/WWE) Rated @ ***** 3/4+*.
> 
> What five matches would these be (Expecting at least a 75) ?


Well shoot. This is a MUCH wider range to pick from now.

Rockers vs Brainbusters MSG January '89
Two Man Power Trip vs Jericho/Benoit
TLC III
HHH vs HBK vs Benoit WM 20
MITB I

?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania Matches of all time​*
*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)*



*27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)​*
*"For the love of God Jeff Hardy, may be broken in half" Jim Ross​*










Some of the fastest 15 minutes in professional wrestling, and you would struggle to find a genuine wrestling fan who hasnt seen this match. This match is really the standard of spotfests today. The image of Edge spearing Jeff off the ladder is one of the most iconic images in wrestling history. The only major gripe I have with this match, is the logic behind it (which is my main gripe with all ladder matches). Why stack tables up on the outside? I know it looks cool when people go through them, but maybe instead climb the ladder and win the titles? Or why you stack 3 ladders next to each other? Dont get me wrong its such a fun and easy match to watch, but things like these really piss me off and make the match much harder to rate. The run ins were fun and cool, seeing Lita, Spike and Rhyno especially. Not the best spotfest in Wrestlemania history like so many assume, but worthy of its place of the list.​
******



*26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)*​
*"We will never see Tyson and Ali, we will never see Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds, but we will get to witness The Rock and The Hulk only at Wrestlemania" Jerry Lawler​*








In my book this is what our business especially Wrestlemania is all about, they didnt to have a put on a technical wrestling clinic, or do double rotation moonsaults. These guys had the crowd in the palm of their hands the moment they walked out of the curtain. This match was about the biggest star in the history of this business against the future( well we assumed) of the business, in front of possibly the hottest crowd you will ever witness. This truly was a spectacle. The reception that Hogan received after every move was incredible, this was no wrestling clinic but every punch every mannerism garnished a crazy reaction from the fans. Hogan hulking up has to be one of the biggest mark out moments ever, and I get goosebumps every time I see it. As a guy who knowingly dislikes both guys, there performance of this night was incredible especially The Rock's performance, and I couldnt help but mark out at everything. This match is the true definition of SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT, and in my book its the greatest 4 star match in WWE history. 

***** *​

Another 2 down, we hit the ***** 1/4* matches next, which if im not too lazy will be up in a few hours. Some matches I feel like writing more about, and when we get near the top 10 im sure most of them will be quite lengthy. Clue for the next 2 are, one is an early WM main event, and the other is a classic IC title match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

God damn I love Rock vs Hogan. I'm right there with you. That's what WM is built on. Matches that live on like that has. Not only was the match actually not as bad as one would think, but it had that unbeatable atmosphere. Hogan in Canada is something else. It really, really is.

Good stuff. Looking forward to the rest. (Y)


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hogan/Rock is magical. I've seen the match so many times but I don't remember any spots. I just remember the crowd exploding when Hogan Hulked up and just the general awesomeness of the crowd from bell to bell. Stuff like that is exactly what Wrestlemania is for. I love a smartly worked match as much as anyone but you can only see something like Rock/Hogan at Wrestlemania. It's moments like that why I still watch WWE.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Hogan vs Rock featured the greatest atmosphere of all time during a match IMO.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

That was the type of magic they were trying for with Rock/Cena, just that atmosphere in Toronto on that night is unmatched. As you said this is the reason why we watch WWE to witness moments that we won't forget. 

Thanks Cody, don't worry I got a couple of your favourite matches coming up on my list soon (Y) promise me not to rant to much when they come up :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Great shit SMIG, loving this stuff so far and motivating me to go out and actually TRY to finish my list (well, post it). You've really come into your own as a reviewer lately.

CODY. 40 PERCENT. GOD. DAMN. YOU. One more try ;

Four non title non gimmick one on one matches I have @ ***** 3/4+*... AAAAND GO.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Cheers KOK, got more time on my hands lately, usually insanely busy but thanks for the props. Yer please finish your list it has me in suspense. 

If Wrestlemania is included :

Owen vs Bret Wm 10
HBK vs Taker Wm 25
HBK vs Taker Wm26
Austin vs Bret SS96


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> That was the type of magic they were trying for with Rock/Cena, just that atmosphere in Toronto on that night is unmatched. As you said this is the reason why we watch WWE to witness moments that we won't forget.
> 
> Thanks Cody, don't worry I got a couple of your favourite matches coming up on my list soon (Y) promise me not to rant to much when they come up :lmao


Well since KOK posted what I'm sure to be the same batch of matches, I'll bite my tongue. :hayley2



KingOfKings said:


> Great shit SMIG, loving this stuff so far and motivating me to go out and actually TRY to finish my list (well, post it). You've really come into your own as a reviewer lately.
> 
> CODY. 40 PERCENT. GOD. DAMN. YOU. One more try ;
> 
> Four non title non gimmick one on one matches I have @ ***** 3/4+*... AAAAND GO.


ahhhhhhh

Can I just pick one? Cena vs Shawn Michaels from RAW in 2007 HAS to be one. AMIRITE?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

75 Percent. I consider the Wrestlemania XXVI match to have a stipulation, thus being a gimmick used to sell the match .

The other one would be Bret-Perfect @ KOTR 93, beast of a match and one of Bret's best.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer I wasn't sure if u would of classed it as a gimmick match or not. 

Yer I approve of bret/perfect (Y) 

I adore their Summerslam match as well.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

flair vs hennig for the US title at halloween havoc 97..i wonder if this match is good


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I recall it being ok, Kenny. It starts off well then gets blah as it goes on. Much like Hall vs Luger. This is going by a few years ago since I last got to see both.

KOK I'm curious to know what were the 5 non 1 vs 1 matches were on the list. I got a few correct. I'm curious to know the whole list. Or all of the lists you wanted me to figure out. :hayley3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

eddie vs rey again at WORLD WAR 3 1997


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A very fitting rematch. ****

Something about the look of The Palace at Auburn Hills. It looks massive & makes the match feel it is on a huge stage. _(maybe it is. I'm not 100% sure of the schematics of the joint after all)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KingOfKings Top 50 Matches In Wrestlemania History : The Final Cut



Spoiler: How We Got Here



50. The Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania XIV)
49. Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon (Wrestlemania XIX)
48. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XV)
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania XXVI)
46. Chris Benoit vs MVP (Wrestlemania XXIII)
45. Chris Benoit vs JBL (Wrestlemania XXII)
44. The Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania XII)
43. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV)
42. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-7)
41. Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes (Wrestlemania XXVII)
40. Batista vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVI)
39. CM Punk vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXVII)
38. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania X-8)
37. Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VI)
36. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania XXIV)
35. Christian vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XX)
34. Mick Foley vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXII)
33. Triple H vs Booker T (Wrestlemania XIX)
32. TLC II (Wrestlemania X-7)
31. MITB IV (Wrestlemania XXIV)
30. Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7)
29. Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIV)
28. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXI)
27. Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
26. Triple H vs Big Show vs The Rock vs Mick Foley (Wrestlemania 2000)
25. Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XX)
24. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
23. The Undertaker vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania X-8)
22. Triple H vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXII)
21. The Undertaker vs Batista (Wrestlemania XXIII)
20. The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVIII)
19. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. The Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania XXIV)
17. Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon (Wrestlemania X)
16. MITB I (Wrestlemania XXI)
15. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX)
14. The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania X-7)
13. Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VII)
12. Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III)
11. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII)
10. Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper (Wrestlemania VIII)
9. The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIX)
8. Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania VIII)
7. The Undertaker vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXVII)
6. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)




5. _"WHAT A MATCH WE ARE WITNESSING BETWEEN TWO LEGENDS ON THE 25TH ANNIVERSARY OF WRESTLEMANIA!!!"_










_Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXV)_

Picture this if you will. Two of the biggest icons in WWE lore (they stayed loyal to the company the entire time, so yes the two biggest WWE ICONS) who had the greatest match of all time 12 years prior with already two MOTYs against one another under their belt, both in their home state of Texas with a perfect allegory of heaven vs hell leading into it. THIS WAS UN-FUCK-UP-ABLE.

What followed was what many individuals call the greatest match of all time, and for good reason. This is one long sprint being told masterfully by two artists destined for greatness. From the superkick nearfalls to the tombstone counters and nearfalls, this match is essentially the biggest adrenaline rush you'll ever get out of any match, and probably the most exciting match I'll ever see in my lifetime for sure. The big time moves, Taker hitting ALL of his signature and finishing moves, and Shawn degenerating into heelish like tactics such as almost accepting a countout win marks the beginning of what would become an obsession.

This is without a shadow of a doubt, the most exciting match I've ever witnessed on the big stage, and not from an artistic standpoint but from an OH MY GOD HOLY SHIT standpoint. This is for the excitement craving wrestling fan with beautiful storytelling thrown in to make it a cocktail for a top 10 WWF/WWE match ever and the 5th best match in Wrestlemania history.

*******


4. _"BENOIT'S GOT THE CROSSFACE! CAN BENOIT REALIZE HIS DREAM!"_










_World Heavyweight Championship - Triple H(c) vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XX)_

Fuck being ethically correct, here's your all time greatest Wrestlemania moment. Chris Benoit was a workhorse who took shit where ever he went, honed his skills the hard way and essentially gave his life to the business for this fucking match, for this fucking moment. If that isn't what passion and wrestling is all about, then what is ?

The match began with a slow build up, with Benoit being knocked out of it to the groans of many only for him to explode back into the picture and make this his match and his moment. Game and Shawn did an excellent job of going out there and being complementary pieces for BENOIT'S SHOW. What's weird is that this match isn't as spotty as I remembered ; only the big time bladejobs and DX EXPLOSION THROUGH THE TABLE I seem to recall. This match thrives on the in ring prowess of the 3 men to tell a great story, and that's what it does.

In terms of having the greatest finishing sequence to a match ever ? Yeah this probably takes the cake, with perhaps the greatest camera angle in WWE history being used to capture the moment. It was built up slowly and paced just right, a fitting snapshot of one of the greatest matches of all time, and it's a shame it never existed.

******* 


3. _"Bret Hart is a man possessed"_










_Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Submission Match ; Wrestlemania XIII)_

When it comes to being the universal GOAT WWF/WWE match, this one probably takes the cake, and who could really dispute it's greatness at this point ? This match is somewhat responsible for the seismic shift in programming during the transitional period between the New Generation and The Attitude Era. We all know the iconic imagery and lore behind this match ; Austin bleeding out in the sharpshooter a hero while the former hero Bret Hart succumbs to his paranoia and becomes a fully fledged heel.

Everybody who has watched a handful of WWE matches knows this perhaps, but what makes this match so great ? Does it play up the gimmick ? Your damn right it does, from the sharpshooter to the million dollar dream to the boston crab, everything seems to click in this like the inner workings of a technical wrestling match. The NO DQ gimmick serves it's purpose as these two systematically murder each other all around the arena. Does it tell a good story ? COME ON, do I really need to answer this ? The ending and how it got over in the fans eyes should tell you all you need to know about this. Psychology ? It's Hart-Austin, limbwork and all.

I certainly wouldn't have it as my personal GOAT (THAT happened later that year), but if somebody made a case for it I could understand. However SOMEHOW I have two matches higher than this masterpiece, which speaks volumes as to how I feel about the next two. The universal GOAT WWF/WWE match and with good reason.

*******


2. _"Stay Down"_










_Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Career vs Streak ; Wrestlemania XXVI)_ 

Remember when I said that the Wrestlemania XXV match between The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels epitomized excitement in wrestling but wasn't an artistic masterpiece ? HERE'S YOUR FUCKING ART. I mean good GOD this match had some of the biggest expectations in WRESTLING history, let alone Wrestlemania and yet somehow they delivered a top five match in company history and the best match since these same two men went out there and made a masterpiece in the cell, but what makes this so great ?

The fucking Undertaker. This match was all about Shawn's career ending, but the Undertaker stole the show with perhaps the greatest individual performance by any wrestler that I have ever seen in my entire life. How the little strikes to the leg exposed his weakness, how he gradually deteriorated throughout the match into a more human like being instead of the supernatural presence that he had encapsulated throughout his entire career, all of these minute factors add up to what is THE (screw it) greatest performance in perhaps all North American wrestling history. That's no slight to Shawn of course, he was fucking amazing picking apart Taker's weakness and exploiting it whilst paying tribute to past opponents ALA Survivor Series 2007. 

The ending, MY GOD. If you don't get goosebumps while watching that ending you aren't human, I'm fucking convinced. These two men went out there and created an artistic masterpiece, the ring being their canvas to paint it upon. Every little character trait these men possess is crammed in here somehow, adding up to the SECOND most impressive Wrestlemania match that I've ever seen, and the third greatest match in WWF/WWE history if I'm concerned. What a way to go out for the Heart Break Kid... Thank You Shawn and Thank You Taker.

WHAT THE FUCK COULD TOP THIS :mark: :mark: :mark: ?

*******


1. _"Now I AM The Best There Is, The Best There Was, and The Best There Ever Will Be BROTHER"_










_Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X)_

Here we are, the greatest match in Wrestlemania history. I honestly feel as if I sit here and talk about this match that I'll come off like a broken record but fuck it ; THIS is the magnum opus of Wrestlemania in terms of Wrestling being a form of art. Two brothers going out there, one determined to come out of his younger brother's shadow, the other hesitant to the situation but determined to set things straight and get them back to normal. Subtle emotion at it's finest here, as being a younger brother I can relate to Owen's feelings at times and everything just kind of CLICKS for me.

The wrestling itself is the greatest WWF/WWE has ever done. From a storytelling perspective they've only done one thing better but from a pure technical wrestling standpoint this is the greatest ever in company history and it isn't even fucking close in the slightest. The transitions and the reasoning behind every little move jumps out at me as being significant. The leg work in a throwback to the original storyline starter when Owen "kicked Bret's leg from out under his leg" was amazing, the chain wrestling, and especially the beautful victory roll finish.

Just the look on Owen's face when he's realized he has won is amazing, even HE is visibly surprised that he was able to step out of his brother's shadow and defeat him CLEAN..... No shenanigans, no bullshit, this is what wrestling is all about. Perfect wrestling, perfect storytelling, perfect psychology, perfect selling by the Hitman.... The second closest thing to perfect the WWE has ever done and in my opinion *THE GREATEST MATCH IN WRESTLEMANIA HISTORY.

******




I hope everybody enjoyed this as much as I did when I was composing this together for you all. This was a fucking blast and I'm looking forward to putting together a whole bunch of these things together in the very near future. I wanna hear your lists, thoughts, feedback, agreements, disagreements, etc.

*FIN.*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WeAreProWrestling's Top 15 Matches for February 2013 (DATCONTRAVERSY):


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And BRET vs OWEN steals it all. Have to tell you, that top 5 is brilliant. Mine could look different at the end of the day, but I can say all 5 were very fitting in my opinion. All were perfect or near perfect for what they wanted to accomplish. The cream of the crop right there. Good stuff.

You've legit made me want to put in Owen's greatest moment in right now. I'm not kidding. I have Bret's DVD on my desk right now. Before I sleep tonight, I am going to witness it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently watching halloween havoc 1996


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember liking the opener. And...that might be all. Rest is a blur outside of the last two matches. Which were utterly terrible.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

doesnt sound too good 

what was ur fav ppv in 1996?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

dean malenko vs rey mysterio :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starrcade.

Bad main event or not, the rest of the card holds up very well. Probably the best opener in WCW PPV history too.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what was the opener?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ultimo Dragon vs Dean Malenko.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

sounds :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love it to death. I hope it holds up since I don't own it. But, the rest has so I'm certain it should. Still gets under my skin that it got snubbed off of the Starrcade DVD set.

Jarrett vs Benoit from the same show is :mark: too.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

I have two 'Taker matches at 5 stars: 'Manias 26 and 27.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXV) ***************** (i dont give a fuck about the apparant 'botch', this match is FUCKING PERFECT)
Triple H(c) vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XX) Really need to rewatch this tbh
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Submission Match ; Wrestlemania XIII) *****
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Career vs Streak ; Wrestlemania XXVI) ****3/4
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X) *****


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Fucking epic shit KOK, I was adamant that Bret/Austin would take out it but loved the suprise of Bret/Owen taking it. 

Can't say enough about the Top 5, and when I get down to it on my list I'm sure they will all be in the mix and close to my top 5 as well(Y) 

I'm currently still trying to pick my number 1 match, so much quality it's insane.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV - *****
Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX - ****3/4
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Wrestlemania XIII - *****
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI - *****
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X - *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV - *****
> Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX - ****3/4
> Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Wrestlemania XIII - *****
> Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI - *****
> Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X - *****


Saves me posting my ratings . Thought of course things could change once I watch them all again. Owen/Bret is the next match for my reviews.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Which is the GOAT FFW match of all time, Undertaker vs. Eddie vs. Booker T vs. JBL at Armageddon 2004 or HBK vs. Cena vs. Orton vs. Edge at Backlash 2007?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 07 out of those 2, and honestly I don't think its even CLOSE. Is that the best FFW though? Fuck knows. Probably. Can't think of one I think is better off the top of my head. Most are decent at best tbh.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Backlash Fatal 4 Way Match is my favourite. I'll give it a **** rating, everyone looked great there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I may have overrated the BL 07 one at ****3/4, but WTH I love that match more than anyone in the world does, runner up for MOTY in 07 IMO (behind the Cena/HBK Raw match).

Since HBK (and to a minor extent Taker) bless the Mr. WrestleMania spot, who do you think is the best performer (Mr. (insert PPV name)) in the other Big 3 (in this case 5, counting with KOTR and NOC)?

IMO:
Mr. SummerSlam: Bret
Mr. Survivor Series: Taker
Mr. Royal Rumble: Austin
Mr. King Of The Ring: huh... Austin I guess
Mr. Night Of Champions: Cena (involved in ALL WWE Title matches in the PPV's history, as well as its two best matches, HHH/Cena and Punk/Cena)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Mr.Summerslam: Bret Hart
Mr. Survivour Series: Hulk Hogan
Mr. Royal Rumble: Shawn Michales or Kane


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Backlash fatal 4 way definitely, only fatal 4 way I think that can rival it is Taker/Bret/Austin/Vader from Final Four 1997. Haven't seen it for quite awhile though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Mr. King Of The Ring:* Bret Hart - For owning the 1993 tournament IMO.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Need to rewatch OTL 4-way, but that Backlash one peaks at ****3/4* for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Backlash fatal 4 way definitely, only fatal 4 way I think that can rival it is Taker/Bret/Austin/Vader from Final Four 1997. Haven't seen it for quite awhile though.


Always forget about that match when I think of 4 ways, just because its over the top rope elimination style. I'd easily put it above BL 07 .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/HBK WM25- *****
Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20- ****1/2
Bret/Austin WM13- *****
Taker/HBK WM26- ****3/4
Bret/Owen WM10- *****

Awesome choices for the top 5. Don't really majorly disagree with any of them. The triple threat is down a couple of notches for me, but I don't have a problem with it in the top 5. Great list as a whole.

My Top 5 WM Matches:

(****3/4)
5) Taker/HBK WM26
(*****)
4) Austin/Rock WM17
3) Bret/Owen WM10
2) Taker/HBK WM25
1) Bret/Austin WM13


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Always forget about that match when I think of 4 ways, just because its over the top rope elimination style. I'd easily put it above BL 07 .


Yer for some reason I always forget about that match as well because of the over the top elimination style as well. Haven't seen it for years but if it holds up, it will probably over take the Backlash 07 match for sure, granted I love that match as well.

Might check it out tonight, and maybe drop a review, but don't wanna get side tracked from my Wrestlemania countdown


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash 4-way is ****1/2 for me. Would put the OTL one around ***1/2.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What's the OTL one?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton/Jericho/Del Rio/Sheamus

I remember liking it. Can't remember much of that Taker/Eddie/JBL/Booker one other than marking for Taker and Eddie being in the ring at the same time.


----------



## Brogue_Kick (Sep 11, 2011)

Just watched CM Punk vs John Cena from the last RAW. They have a great chemistry together. It's a shame they won't main-event Wrestlemania in a 1v1 for the WWE Championship. That would be HUGE

**** and one of the best TV matches this year


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*WWF Championship - Steve Austin vs Undertaker vs Bret Hart vs Vader (Final Four 1997)*












I haven't seen this one for a good 2 years or so, but fuck does this one hold up. All this talk on Fatal 4 ways motivated me to watch it again. This is just 25 minutes of absolute action, and I loved every second of it. This match has quite the weird stipulation and at times it's alittle hard to follow with the over the top rule, as well as pinfall and submissions counting towards the eliminations. But in the end it helped the story of the match and made this match so unique. With all the immense talent in this ring, including Bret, Taker and Austin, I just couldn't take my eyes off Vader. This guy just absolutely ruled in this, and the image of his eye covered in blood was so epic. I especially loved everytime Vader got near or touching the ropes, he crawled out making sure the only way anyone could beat him was by pinfall or submission. But ironically in the end he takes his eyes off Taker for 5 seconds to hit the Vader bomb and gets tossed over. This match had so much carnage and brutality, but the storytelling was equally as good. Bret and Austin who had been feuding for months went after each other at every turn, and when Austin was eliminated he still wanted to destroy Bret and accidentally helps Bret win the match. This was just another step in the amazing rivalry of Bret and Austin. This match was absolutely awesome and without a doubt the greatest Fatal 4 Way in WWE history. 

***** 1/2*

Btw Vader is awesome (Y)

Alright that didn't take too long off to bed now then ill post my next 2 on my Wrestlemania Countdown.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Orton/Jericho/Del Rio/Sheamus
> 
> I remember liking it. Can't remember much of that Taker/Eddie/JBL/Booker one other than marking for Taker and Eddie being in the ring at the same time.


Oh yeah, that match. *** for it, barely. ***1/2 for the Armageddon 04 match.

EDIT: Vader was fucking BOSS in that match. Probably his best performance in WWF.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Bryan/Jericho (Raw 2/11/2013) ***1/2


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Best 4-way match is Undertaker/Bret Hart/Stone Cold/Vader from IYH-Final Four 1997 ****1/2.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Spoiler: Wrestlemania 3



Can-Am Connection vs Don Muraco & Bob Orton
Alright hot tag match. The offence from the Can-Am Connection didn't feel very fluid though, Orton looked pretty slick. But nothing too memorable. 
*3/4

Hercules vs Billy Jack
Decent match-up. If they had kept to the tempo that they managed at the start, it would of been a gem. But it slowed down and turn rather methodical. Still an enjoyable match, of good potential. 
**

Hillbilly Jim & 2 midgets vs King Kong Bundy & 2 midgets
Don't think I'll get the point of this. Hopefully, ever. I liked Bundy's work against Hillbilly Jim, looked sharp. But the rest of it, meh. 
1/2*

Junkyad Dog vs 'The King' Harley Race
Meh. 
*

Rougeau Brothers vs 'Dream Team' Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake
Nothing really to note of this match. 
*

'Adorable' Adrian Adonis vs 'Hot Rod' Roddy Piper
Not a wrestling classic, but a entertaining match aided by the crowd. Involvement of Beefcake seemed very unusual though. To add, loved Piper's entrance. Everyone took the 'cab' down the aisle, he walked, daylight shining down on him. Added a 'big time' feel.
**1/4

British Bulldogs & Tito Santana vs Hart Foundation & Danny Davis
Another really basic WWE style tag match. Most of the match, punch, punch, kick, kick, whip toss. Heel gets his come-uppance, frenzy from every participant and a pin in the midst of the action.
*

Koko B. Ware vs Butch Reed
Had to watch this twice, because I kept blinking when stuff happened. Realised I actually missed nothing. Another unusual involvement, this time by Santana. But, apparently according to Monsoon, 'Slick' has been involved with Santana numerous times in the past. Covers that up, I guess. 
3/4* - *

Ricky 'the Dragon' Steam vs 'Macho Man' Randy Savage
This match originally was ***1/2 when I first viewed it a long while back. Now, the REWATCH~~.
Gritty and captivating match, that opinion still stands. A short match, which does hurt it. Great pacing, great performances by both men. But, the rating goes up, up, up. 
****1/4 

Jake 'the Snake' Roberts vs the Honky Tonk Man
Jake's punches look phenomenal. Alright brawl, but nothing else. 
*1/4

Iron Sheik & Ivan Koloff vs The Killer Bees
Another rather useless tag team match. 
*

Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant
Dubbed 'biggest ever match'. Hulk Hogan, WWF Champion for 3 years, up against the unstoppable, unbeatable, unmoveable object, Andre the Giant. Doesn't need further hype, was already sold into the match by the pre-match promos. Very typical underdog vs the giant match. Wearing down work by Andre, occasional fight back by Hogan. Hogan eventually knocks down Andre, and thus begins THE HULK UP. Slam heard around the world, crowd bursts, leg drop, 1, 2, 3. Not a wrestling classic, but it was never going to be. Perfect for what it was. As for a rating, tricky.
**1/2 probably fits it.



At times, it was a good PPV. And on others, I was questioning why I haven't skipped the matches. A mixed bag, with 3 goodies, 1 'alright', and 8 very missable matches. Time to either roll on Survivor Series 87, or dip into some WCW from 83 & 84. Undecided.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Armageddon 2004 Four Way isn't even great. It's good with the bossy Undertaker/Eddie interactions in the middle. That's the highlight to take away from it.

Backlash 2007 = :mark: ****1/2. It's stellar.

Final Four...shoot. No memory whatsoever on the match as a whole. Only parts. I bet it has the Backlash match beat with its sheer chaos. Maybe I'll make the point of watching it today.

Over The Limit 2012 - ***1/4. Good and nothing more. I expected better on a first watch, tbhayley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Eddie interaction in the match automatically makes the whole thing supermegaawesome.

You'll fucking love the Final Four match Cody. Vader and Undertaker just maul the shit out of each other in the first of only 2 matches where Vader really feels like VADER (Shamrock match is the other). Austin and Bret are awesome too. Everyone is awesome, but VADER is the standout. Vader is the standout guy in a match between UNDERTAKER, AUSTIN AND BRET. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember some brawls all over the place. And the finish. That's it. I guess that's not half bad when you rent the show EONS ago in the 90's.

I'm sure it's on dailymotion. I hope...anything for those Undertaker & Vader interactions. :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlolew_028-steve-austin-vs-bret-hart-vs-the-undertaker-vs-vader-in-your-house-13-1997-four-corners-eliminat_sport

The link for Vader/Taker/Austin/Bret


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Backlash 07 featured the best fatal 4 way ever IMO. I'll have to rewatch Bret/Stone cold/Taker/Vader tho. Haven't seen it in years


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

If you guys can put 2 current guys in the ring and have a *****	match for 20+ minutes who would it be? 

I'll go with Bryan/Ziggler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Luke Harper vs El Generico.

Or sub either one with Undertaker and it would be all good.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Punk, Ziggler/Bryan, Bryan/Punk or Jericho/Bryan. I dont know about a Bryan/Cena match, that one should be interesting


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Bryan and it isn't even close honestly, maybe Punk/Cena.

Watching my 2002 MOTY now with Undertaker vs BROCK in the cell for my BROCK project, I only have 5 2002 matches left to watch and then it's on to 2003 where Lesnar reigned supreme. BROCK should do a TV match against like Miz where Miz perhaps gets like one punch landed and the rest is epic BROCK offense. SOOO MANY SQUASH MATCHES... BUT THEY'RE ALL AWZUM.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not sure about 5 stars but Sheamus v Lesnar is something I'd love to see.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I think sheamus is lesnars next best opponent. Man that match would be physical AS FUCK.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'd rather see Orton/Lesnar then Lesnar/Sheamus


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kayfabe wise Lesnar would murder Orton. He's not a threat at all tbh. Sheamus/Lesnar would rule. 2 big bastards beating the fuck out of each other :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I will be very interested to see Brock's next opponont after HHH is finished with him...................its HHH again, joke lol, probably be Punk if he turns face, if not, its hard to guess at this stage tbh.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> I'd rather see Orton/Lesnar then Lesnar/Sheamus




I disagree. I love Orton, but he gets injured too much. I think Brock would be too much for him to handle.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

How many PPVs will Lesnar appear at this year? Last year it was just Extreme Rules and Summerslam. Obviously 'Mania is added this year. Hopefully another 2 aswell. Summerslam and another one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd enjoy Lesnar vs Orton only to see Orton die in an epic squash. Would probably be Orton's best match since vs Henry in 2011. 8*D

but Sheamus vs Lesnar obviously has WAY more appeal & potential.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm wondering if we'll see a Cena/Lesnar rematch. If Cena beats Rock at WM and wins the WWE Championship, it would be great to defend it against Lesnar at ER again in a brutal match. The only problem is that Cena will be put over Lesnar twice


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I'd enjoy Lesnar vs Orton only to see Orton die in an epic squash. Would probably be Orton's best match since vs Henry in 2011. 8*D
> 
> but Sheamus vs Lesnar obviously has WAY more appeal & potential.




Eh, Kane vs Orton extreme rules 2012 was better I thought.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Orton's last great match was with Ziggler at NoC


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got me there. Kane brought the goods.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

For lesnars next opponents id like to see: (Not including Brock/Taker and Brock/Rock)

Cena/lesnar rematch for the title

Brock/Sheamus

Either Brock/Orton or Brock/Ryback I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Rock has zero appeal.

Money match sure. I just don't care for it. Is it even a lock that Lesnar will show up for WM 30? I'm already sick to death of these one night only dudes taking up quality spots on the biggest show of the year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

IMHO, Brock/Rock just wouldn't work this time, both pretty much completly different this time around, dont get me started on The Rock lol, but i just dont see that one working out, i love the SS02 match to death, but not for me atm.

But i suppose box office and all that nonsense, yeah it'll work out great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Realistic Brock opponents post Mania XXIX ? The obvious ones here are the combinations of BROCK/Taker and BROCK/Rock at the next two Wrestlemania events. HOWEVER, I'm very skeptical now that we'll even get BROCK/Taker again at this point, as the only place I can see it happening is XXXI, or next year if god forbid they go with Rock/Cena III. The sad thing is that if Brock/Taker happened I wouldn't give a fuck about the rest of the card honestly, I just want that match so bad.

Brock-Punk is inevitable and it's going to happen with an outside shot of it happening at Mania XXXI if they don't do Brock-Taker. Either they'll do it then or it will main event Summerslam 2013 or 2014 or something. Another match that I see being inevitable at this point is a Brock-Cena rematch probably sometime during this year. 

It'll be interesting to see if the big four part-timers will match up with anybody besides the big two in the company now (Cena & Punk) and each other in the forseeable future as I can't see them dipping out of that realm until they REALLY NEED TO. I mean BROCK has two years left from Mania XXIX to Mania XXXI, so that leaves room for a Cena re-match, a Punk match, a Taker match, and of course the inevitable Rock match. I can see him doing probably 3-4 matches a year with the only people who have an outside shot of a PPV match with Brock being Sheamus, Ryback, and really outside the box would be Orton.... I see a Ryback heel turn in the future though so I sincerely doubt we'll get Ryback-Brock.

If Punk-BROCK happens it means Punk is the only guy in the company to wrestle the big four part-timers AFTER they became part timers, quite the accomplishment.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I for one definitely don't wanna see punk/lesnar, we'll probably get it though unfortunately. 

Maybe punk/lesnar would take place at the June ppv since it's in Chicago? If punks face they'll definitely wanna go to Chicago then for obvious reasons


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I absolutely DO NOT WANT Rock Vs Brock. I don't see how it would work. Rock isn't a guy I would point to and say "he could hang with Lesnar in a brawl". Their SS 02 match is great, but that was a wrestling match. Lesnar has FIGHTS now, and I honestly don't think Rock could work a match like that. He has trouble working a normal match nowadays FFS. Same with Orton/Lesnar. A normal match, yeah, but a FIGHT with Lesnar's current style? Not a chance in hell.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, that is a good point Cal, unless Brock changes his style back to his roots for a selected opponont, whomever he faces has to be able to have that 'fight feel' sorta match with him, probably why alot of people want Sheamus.

Although of course i liked how his match with cena worked out but that was different, Punk match _could_ be ok, again depends on what sorta match they wanna have.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

At this point rock is too much of a pussy to go with lesnar in the ring probably. But as long as it doesn't close wrestlemania over cena/taker I wouldn't mind it. My biggest problem is if they closed over Cena/Taker. I would flip shit.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Is it even a lock that Lesnar will show up for WM 30?


I thought he just extended his deal with the company for two years or something like that? Unless it was a false report and that wouldn't surprise me either.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I want Brock/Rock just so Brock can beat Rock so bad that he fucks off back to Hollywood never to be seen again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The only interaction I'd want with Rock/Lesnar is Rock cutting one of his typical lame shitty promos throwing kiddie insults at Lesnar, so Lesnar comes out and decks him, then just walks away never to do anything with Rock again .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> I thought he just extended his deal with the company for two years or something like that? Unless it was a false report and that wouldn't surprise me either.


Thought it was only extended for a few months. Idk the 'tails myself.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah his deal is through XXXI. Gotta believe that they told him exactly what he's going to do during that time frame as well as who he's going to match up against in order for him to sign the deal, since BROCK is a money whore and wants as many main events as possible so he can generate the highest potential income (his words from his book).

Not including this year, there's two Taker matches left ; Taker-Cena and Taker-BROCK, the question being which one will be his last match ? The Cena match would make the most sense since it would add the most drama, but for a storyline perspective you'd have an old beaten down Undertaker against the MONSTER Brock Lesnar..... Tricky decision, although Brock-Taker next year pretty much guarantees Rock-Cena III .

The fact that Taker PROBABLY has 3 matches left and he's using one of them with Punk makes me very, very happy.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I also believe Brock is guaranteed a title shot in his new 2 year contract. Could have sworn I saw that somewhere.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I also believe Brock is guaranteed a title shot in his new 2 year contract. Could have sworn I saw that somewhere.


Unless the contract is leaked, surely no-one knows anything


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I highly doubt that, seeing as how if Brock wanted a title shot he could just say it and they would give him one. Brock defied Vince trying to break him and make him crawl back to the company as a broken man begging for forgiveness......

Now Vince is throwing boatloads of cash at Lesnar as one of his biggest attractions, funny how things work out like that. Also funny how the supposed main event of Wrestlemania XXI was going to be Brock vs HHH and now we're getting it 8 years later.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

_*I really hate how they've booked Brock as a pro wrestling heel character. He shouldn't be playing a wrestling character. He should just be Brock Lesnar: Ass Kicker. The heel shtick and backing down from fights is just silly when Lesnar's doing it. Plus with his massive popularity and the limited number of dates he does he really should be a babyface so you get the most out of the pop everytime he turns up. Lesnar's never gonna get legit major heel heat because everyone loves him too much and there's always the originality factor around a Lesnar match or even appearance because of his contract. When that music goes off they should be aiming to get the biggest pops ever, not heel heat. 

What I'd do with Lesnar is just have him be Brock Lesnar who turns up when he likes on his own terms and kicks ass. Kayfabe wise you can just explain that he's signed to do so many dates and he gets paid if he fulfils all of his dates to explain why he comes and goes and appears out of the blue on TV. It's pro wrestling so you don't even really need to explain it. You don't even need "angles" with Brock. Heel A is cutting an annoying heel promo every week. One week Lesnar turns up and beats him up. If the guy's a big enough star then they have a match. If not then you just end it there and everyone gets what they want from Brock. Brock beating people up. Can work vice versa with babyfaces too all be it not as regularly. Have him interrupt Cena one week, cut an anti-Cena promo and have him set a match up because he wants a fight with Cena. There doesn't need to be this traditional pro wrestling build with Lesnar where he works a pro wrestling angle and plays a pro wrestling character. Lesnar's special and totally unique. Book him like that. 

As for the next 2 Mania's, Rock at 30 and then Punk at 31 for me. Cena/Taker has to happen at 30 and then I think that'll be Taker's last big Mania match. He might still turn up at Mania to squash a geek and have his Mania moment but I'm not convinced how many "epics" he has left in him for Mania. Brock/Rock is pretty inevitable at this point. Rock wants, Rock gets. Vince wants money, this makes money. Personally I'd be hyped for it as a spectacle and the build could be really great. Again, there doesn't need to be pro wrestling build. Treat it like something as legit as it gets. Challenge laid down by one, challenge accepted by the other. You can either go for the redemption story with Rock wanting redemption for Summerslam 02 and beating someone he's never beat before who's beat him. Punk at 31 should be the climax of a long and slow build between those 2. Have Brock team with Punk a few times and build the slight dislike for one another there but they team because they're both Heyman guys and he can talk them into it. 

Lesnar/Sheamus I'd love to see. Lesnar/Ziggler too. They'd fucking rule and play nicely into the Lesnar dynamic. Face Lesnar against a Henry or a Show would rule. Orton and Lesnar is just a bad pairing. I doubt Ryback will get to the level of being positioned in a money match with Lesnar. Throw in some tags with Punk and a rematch with Cena and that's more than enough to fill his 2 years up. You don't want Lesnar working more than 3 PPVs a year. I'd throw a Lesnar match on Raw at some point too. Just one. Probably a tag with Punk against Cena and someone. Cena and Sheamus vs Punk and Lesnar. That'd be fucking huge and isn't throwing a massive buyrate on TV for free.

Doubt any of that will happen bar the obvious ones. He'll probably attack Ryback from behind to set a match up. Yay.*_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So who do we talk to in order to get Seabs on the creative team?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*If I ever start up my own promotion you're the first person I'll give a job to. Assuming you still go to A4E just for the stories.*


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

They should do Brock/Rock at Summerslam this year. I would drive down to LA for that one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, and not save it for WM. Would be flushing money down a toilet.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Seabs said:


> *If I ever start up my own promotion you're the first person I'll give a job to. Assuming you still go to A4E just for the stories.*


You should totally book that as a recurring weekly skit. Cal can eventually get a tag team partner when a fellow sufferer beats the piss out of a totally incompetent staff member. On that day was born 'Serves you Right'.

Only thing missing from Seabs' fantasy booking is Lesnar/Bryan. Perfect sub 15 minute showcase match to make Bryan look tough, competitive and a star and make Lesnar look like a true monster and immense talent by eventually overcoming an unexpected challenge.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Wrestlemania will draw regardless. Especially if you have cena/taker. My big question is who would rocks next opponent be?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Bryan. Yep. That's what I've been plugging away for since April of last year. I won't get it. I know this. My dream can't be crushed inside my head. I'll always have that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Wrestlemania will draw regardless. Especially if you have cena/taker. My big question is who would rocks next opponent be?


A psychiatrist to convince him he cant really wrestle anymore


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Have three BROCK matches left to watch from 2002.

Everything is ***+*, fucking remarkable. The guy has just been incapable of putting on a bad performance so far.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Bryan didn't even enter my thought process when I was thinking of top guys or future top guys they could put Lesnar with. That sucks. That match would obviously rule. Bryan could have a great match with anyone and that's not even hyperbole. Sadly I don't see them ever booking him as a serious top guy though. Partly because of how over he's got doing the comedy routine and as a the goofy heel champion. On the one hand it was awesome he got so over in that run but on the other hand it'll probably really hold his potential back in WWE because of how they see him now. I so badly hope I'm wrong on that front though. Lesnar/Bryan is the sort of Lesnar match you could throw on TV too. 

Re: the "Wrestlemania will draw regardless" quote. Yes it'll always do the biggest buyrate of the year most likely because of the brand of Wrestlemania but it doesn't draw regardless of the card. That's a FACHT. They always do their biggest drawing matches at Mania and there's a reason for that. The biggest matches they have will do bigger numbers at Mania than any other PPV because of the branding of Wrestlemania and the extra coverage that Mania gets. Mania doesn't do big numbers because of wrestling fans, it's because of casuals and non wrestling fans who buy the show because of the extra mainstream coverage it gets. Summerslam will never get that level of coverage so it's just bad business to do Brock/Rock at any other show other than Mania when Mania is feasible. 

Mania 30 could be seriously stacked. Even more so than 29 and 28. Rock/Brock is essentially a lock already. Cena/Taker will draw huge. Then there's room for a really big title match. Maybe even a HHH match too.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PUNK-GAME PLZ.

WWE CHAMPIONSHIP .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's good to know I can not look forward to the next 3 years of WrestleMania with the same ol junk happening over and over again.

Joyous time.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> PUNK-GAME PLZ.
> 
> WWE CHAMPIONSHIP .


I would :mark:


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

And Punk gets his pin back unk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Right now, here's what I'm hoping for WM29-31:

WM29:
Rock beats Cena to retain the WWE Title (it's only a dream now that Rock is off of ER apparently, but still...)
Taker beats Punk
Lesnar beats HHH

WM30:
Taker defeats Cena
Lesnar defeats Rock
Punk defeats HHH to retain the WWE Title (Punk turns face following the match)

WM31:

Punk defeats Austin to retain the WWE Title (Punk lost and regained the title in between WM30 and WM31)
Taker defeats Lesnar
Cena defeats Rock (Third match... yes I know, but don't worry. Cena turns heel before the match)

Punk will be solidified as the top face by this point, Cena the top heel, Lesnar is done with WWE, HHH retires after WM30 from in-ring competition officially, and from here they can do Taker/Cena II at WM32 if they want as Cena will be heel this time around, Taker wins, and at WM33 faces Sheamus, Ryback, or Rock, goes 25-0, and that's it for him. Punk passes the torch to the next face of the company, whoever that is, at WM32 or WM33. Might be Sheamus or Ryback, or someone we don't even know yet (it is still years away after all).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Finally watched Punk/Cena from Raw. Great match. Punk using his past experiences in the ring with Cena were some of those special nuances that really separate a great match from a solid match. Things like ducking the running shoulderblock, followed by a wry smile, and the countless reversals were superb intangibles to bolster the story that Cena was lacking confidence in the notion that he can actually beat Punk. The extended finishing stretch had some wonderful drama, and a captivated crowd never hurts. Good stuff. ****1/4 imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Considering WWE dont seem to know their arse from their elbow most of the damn time, im just thinking week by week atm lol and not expecting all that i should...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I posted this in the best Raw matches. I found these from December-October 2012 

Sheamus/Big Show- 24/12/12
Sheamus/Ziggler- 10/12/12
BRYAN/MYSTERIO- 26/11/12
Sheamus/Cesaro- 26/11/12
Sheamus/Sandow- 19/11/12
Cena/CM Punk- 12/11/12
Cena&Ryback/Ziggler&Punk- 05/11/12
Bryan/Ziggler- 22/10/12
Punk/Sheamus- 22/10/12
Sheamus/Barrett- 15/10/12
Punk/McMahon (more of a segment but entertaining nonetheless) 08/10/12
Sheamus/Sandow- 01/10/12
Punk&Ziggler/Team Hell No- 01/10/12

Starz from you guys? If you can remember them


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rawk said:


> Right now, here's what I'm hoping for WM29-31:
> 
> WM29:
> Rock beats Cena to retain the WWE Title (it's only a dream now that Rock is off of ER apparently, but still...)
> ...


Implied H will hold the gold again. This company would be at an all time low if so. They'll finally become WCW.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd probably lose my mind (in a good way) if H won the belt again. :hb


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> Implied H will hold the gold again. This company would be at an all time low if so. They'll finally become WCW.


lol, sorry. Meant to put "retain". Yeah, HHH is never getting the strap again in my fantasy bookings.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

@Ever Wolf:

Sheamus/Big Show- 24/12/12 ~ ****
Sheamus/Ziggler- 10/12/12 ~ ***1/4
BRYAN/MYSTERIO- 26/11/12 ~ ***1/4
Sheamus/Cesaro- 26/11/12 ~ ***1/2
Sheamus/Sandow- 19/11/12 ~ ***
Cena/CM Punk- 12/11/12 ~ I have it at "***". I don't remember much of it at all though. Weird.
Cena&Ryback/Ziggler&Punk- 05/11/12 ~ *1/2
Bryan/Ziggler- 22/10/12 ~ ***
Punk/Sheamus- 22/10/12 ~ *1/4 _(fuck a dumb lumberjack match)_
Sheamus/Barrett- 15/10/12 ~ **3/4
Punk/McMahon (more of a segment but entertaining nonetheless) 08/10/12 ~ N/R
Sheamus/Sandow- 01/10/12 ~ ***1/4
Punk&Ziggler/Team Hell No- 01/10/12 ~ **


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> I posted this in the best Raw matches. I found these from December-October 2012
> 
> Sheamus/Big Show- 24/12/12
> Sheamus/Ziggler- 10/12/12
> ...


That Sheamus fella sure is having a lot of good matches.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Sheamus is a workhorse.

Probably my TV WOTY for 2012. Feuds are shite but his TV matches are always at least decent.

I'm yet to go through September to the start of the year but i'm sure he'll have a tonne of matches on that list. 

May go and do that now in fact.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus is the king.

Even when some of the matches weren't as good as they could have been on RAW, he went to Main Event to make amends. IE vs Punker & his best yet vs Barrett.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just don't let him hold a mic :troll


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Is his match against Punk on Main Event worth checking out?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Was just thinking about how sick Lesnar/Masters would be. Say WWE pushed Masters hard in '11 and carried it on up until now, that match would be so good, imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I was thinking about something similar the other day. Imagine Masters vs. Cesaro? :mark::mark:


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Is his match against Punk on Main Event worth checking out?


Definetely. One of the few matches I've watched on main event, very good match. Better than the match they had on RAW imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Just don't let him hold a mic :troll


He can talk, fella.



FluxCapacitor said:


> Is his match against Punk on Main Event worth checking out?


Certainly is.



Pierre McDunk said:


> Was just thinking about how sick Lesnar/Masters would be. Say WWE pushed Masters hard in '11 and carried it on up until now, that match would be so good, imo.


Holy CRAP. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Or Bryan vs. Masters? :mark:

Two months in and 2013 is already above 2012 in TV match quality IMO - Cena/Punk, ADR/Show I, Cena/Ziggler 1/21, ADR/Ziggler ME, Sheamus/Ziggler ME, Punk/Ryback TLC, Jericho/Bryan, Punk/Jericho, Shield/Shybericho, Hell No/Car Stereo, Swagger/Orton...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Okay continuing my 2012 Raw matches list

Sheamus & Cena/CM Punk & Del Rio- 17/09/12
CM Punk/Orton that turns into Orton & Lawler/Punk & Ziggler- 10/09/12
Orton/Ziggler- 03/09/12
Cena/ Del Rio- 03/09/12
Orton & Sheamus/Ziggler & Del Rio- 27/08/12
Punk/Lawler, Cage- 27/08/12
Ziggler/Jericho- 20/08/12
Punk & Cena/Big Show & Bryan- 13/08/12
Punk/Mysterio- 06/08/12
Christian/Del Rio- 06/08/12
Ziggler/Riley- 06/08/12
Cena/Bryan- 06/08/12
Sheamus/Bryan- 30/07/12
Miz & Ziggler/Christian & Jericho- 30/07/12
Christian/Miz- 23/07/12
Cena/Punk- 23/07/12
Punk/Big Show- 16/07/12
Punk & Cena/Jericho & Bryan 02/07/12

There you have September-July. 2012 may have been a bad year for storylines and such but fuck it's a great year for TV matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Masters = 

I wish that guy was still around. I've always liked him - even when he wasn't good. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a good start to 2013 for TV thanks to the recent matches pumped out. Although Cena vs Ziggler was a disgrace, Swagger carried Orton to only something decent at best, and Dolph vs Del Rio on Smackdown is WAY > than their overrated affair on Main Event.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

^Agree with that. What did everyone think of Miz vs Cesaro? I thought it was too short. Miz got his first fall during a commerical break lol. Apart from Cesaro selling his leg injury, I didn't think the match was special. Hopefully this feud ends but it will probably continue.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm guessing that's a Smackdown topic? I won't be able to comment MUCH later in the night, but I guess I now know there is a 2/3 falls lined up. Subsequently spoiled too. 

Cesaro vs Miz from Elimination Chamber = (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro/Miz:
RR pre-show - **1/4
EC - **3/4
2 out of 3 falls - **

Funny to think Cesaro is one of the best workers in the company, yet all of his US Title matches were average at best.

Ratings for the Cena/Punk feud?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match at Elimination Chamber earns the title of good. But the rest have all been showcase matches. Cesaro is great, his opponents either have been not or were there only to be fed to him. If the match vs Gabriel would have been more competitive, no doubt it had potential to be fairly excellent. Cesaro + high flyer is a recipe for gold.

I'm lazy today. Tried finding my post with all of the Punk/Cena stuff written up but no go atm. So many pages in so little time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Cesaro/Miz:
> RR pre-show - **1/4
> EC - **3/4
> 2 out of 3 falls - **
> ...


That's because he's had to work with shit like Truth, Miz, & Khali.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Evan Bourne needs to hurry the fuck up and come back from wherever he is and get beaten up by Cesaro for 15 minutes every week, IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Evan Bourne needs to hurry the fuck up and come back from wherever he is and get beaten up by Cesaro for 15 minutes every week, IMO


^^^

Only Bourne can win here and there. Hurry up and give me Cesaro vs Danielson too dammit. Except AVOID the headlocks. ~!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I stopped watching the from mid 2007 - late 2009. Hit me with some TV GEMZ, please guys.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CHRISTIAN VS JACK SWAGGER 2/24/09 :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JOHN CENA VS. SHAWN MICHAELS 1/12/09 :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I stopped watching the from mid 2007 - late 2009. Hit me with some TV GEMZ, please guys.


Here's some:

HBK/Cena... their first match of the two in 09, and the match in 07.
Morrison/Mysterio on SD in 09 for the IC Title
Taker/Finlay 3/9/2007 SD
Punk vs. Jeff Hardy SD 09 Steel Cage
Taker/Batista SD 07 Steel Cage
Taker/Kane SD April 2008
Edge/Morrison SD 2009 (shortly before Edge got injured)
Edge/Benoit SD 6/8/07
Taker/Benjamin 4/17/09 SD
Christian/Swagger ECW 2/24/09


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I stopped watching the from mid 2007 - late 2009. Hit me with some TV GEMZ, please guys.


Morrison/Rey and Cena/HBK 09 are amazing. Morrison/Punk 07, Taker/Jericho I, Taker/Kane 08, Christian/Swagger Feb 09 and Punk/Jeff Steel Cage are all really good too.


Speaking of TV gems, top 10 TV matches of the 2010's so far (counting with Superstars, NXT, SMS, etc.)? 

IMO, in no order:
- Cena/Punk Raw Feb 13
- Punk/Bryan Raw Jan 12
- Punk/Bryan SD Feb 12
- Punk/Henry Raw April 12
- Punk/Ziggler Raw Nov 11
- Cena/Rey Raw July 11
- Miz/Morrison Raw Jan 11
- ADR/Show SD Jan 13
- ADR/Ziggler ME Feb 13
- Usos & Barreta/Kidd, Slater & Gabriel Superstars June 11


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

@FLUX

Finlay vs David Hart Smith
Christian vs Tyson Kidd
Christian vs William Regal
Finlay vs Tyson Kidd I & II

All from ECW circa 2009. Yes, I'm very lazy atm to find dates but the ECW 2009 timeframe is easy enough for you to find them. Especially when so many only happened once. I could easily make this list bigger. Same with Smackdown in 2009. Go watch Finlay vs Mike Knox. All of their matches. Jeff Hardy vs John Morrison kind of rules too. That one was in late July.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 TV Matches 2010-2013:

(****1/4)
1) Punk vs. Ziggler Raw November 2011
2) The Shield vs. Ryback, Jericho, and Sheamus Raw 2/18/13
(****)
3) Taker vs. Punk SD September 2010
4) Punk vs. Henry Raw 4/2/2012
5) Cena vs. Mysterio Raw July 2011
6) Punk vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13
7) Orton vs. Christian SD May 2011
8) Punk vs. Cena Raw 8/22/11
(***3/4)
9) Punk vs. Jericho Raw 2/4/13
10) Bryan vs. Jericho Raw 2/11/13


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

12 man tag from RAW in late 2011 deserves some love. Awesome, awesome southern style multiman match right there. 

****


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hm, going back to Flux, this match happened in late really late 09 so you may have been back watching by the time it took place, but Taker/Cena vs. DX vs. Jerishow on Raw in MSG was super super fun. I wouldn't go over ***1/2 on it (if even that, it's hard match to rate for me), but you got interactions such as Taker/HHH and Taker/HBK, as well as Taker tombstoning Cena after the match which goes down as one of my favorite moments in Raw history.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

_I haven't reviewed anything in a while, so apologies if it's not great. Thankyou for all of the suggestions by the way, I'll get watching._

*Christian vs. Jack Swagger - ECW (2/24/09)*

Part One
Part Two

This is the first time I've seen this highly-regarded match - A match which I've seen/heard some people put up there with Taker/Shawn as 2009 WWE MOTY. My thoughts on that opinion? Absolutely correct. Without me knowing the whole backstory to the match and how it was built up, the story of the match it's self was self explanatory - The young, brash, amateur-styled powerhouse against the grizzled, never-say-die veteran looking to get his hands on the title. Just everything about this match seemed legit. From the quality punches thrown by Christian, to the false comebacks, to the unique yet effective offense from Swags; it all just fits. Even the little things just add up t make this one glorious match, for example, when Christian nails the missile dropkick and diving headbutts, he clutches his arm after landing on it. Now whether he did that for that reason (he landed on it) or just because he was selling the arm in general, it doesn't matter, it just rocks.

Something that Christian is renowned for is his ability to time his comebacks to perfection, and although the transition spots were pretty basic and somewhat common or overused, that didn't affect anything due to how well they were timed. Also, every transition spot where the momentum would swing to Swagger, Jack would play up the "opportunistic rookie prodigy" aspect of his character and would be relentless in taking advantage. I adore the spot where Christian flips out of the back body suplex, ducks the wild back forearm then ducks the clothesline on the way back, playing up on the transition spot from earlier on in the match, as well as playing on Christian's experience edge that is always evident. 

And to top all of this off, the finishing stretch (last two minutes or so) absolutely rule the world. The tempo increases, the desperation between both men becomes more and more evident as it progresses and neither man looked weak because of it. So not only is the story fantastic, but the booking of the match and how it plays out is marvellous as well.

Unreal. I've recently completely gone off the idea of STARZ but I think this review is more than enough for you to get my opinion on this match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> as well as Taker tombstoning Cena after the match which goes down as one of my favorite moments in Raw history.












Book it Vince............soon


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

God damn it, where was JR to call that tombstone?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I stopped watching the from mid 2007 - late 2009. Hit me with some TV GEMZ, please guys.



Christian v Tommy Dreamer 4/28/09
Christian/Tommy Dreamer v Jack Swagger/Mark Henry 5/5/09
Christian v Paul Burchill 5/19/09
Christian v Tyson Kidd 6/2/09
Christian v DH Smith 6/16/09
Christian/Tommy Dreamer v Jack Swagger/Mark Henry 6/23/09
Christian/Tommy Dreamer v William Regal/Vladimir Kozlov 6/30/09
Christian v Vladimir Kozlov 7/9/09
Christian v Zack Ryder 7/28/09
Christian v Tommy Dreamer 8/4/09
Christian v William Regal 8/25/09
Christian/Tommy Dreamer v Vladimir Kozlov/Ezekiel Jackson 9/8/09
Christian v Zack Ryder 9/22/09
Christian/Goldust/Yoshi Tatsu/Tommy Dreamer v William Regal/Vladimir Kozlov/Ezekiel Jackson/Zack Ryder 9/29/09
Christian v Zack Ryder 10/6/09
Christian/Yoshi Tatsu v William Regal/Zack Ryder 10/13/09
Christian v Chris Jericho 10/20/09
Christian v Yoshi Tatsu 10/27/09
Christian v William Regal 11/10/09


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> @FLUX
> 
> Finlay vs David Hart Smith = *May 19th 2009*
> Christian vs Tyson Kidd = *Jun 2nd 2009*
> ...


 Added


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FluxCapacitor said:


> _I haven't reviewed anything in a while, so apologies if it's not great. Thankyou for all of the suggestions by the way, I'll get watching._
> 
> *Christian vs. Jack Swagger - ECW (2/24/09)*
> 
> ...


:mark: always great when more people watch and love this masterpiece of wrestling. I've just put in the 09-10 Best of PPV Bluray, gonna watch their Backlash match now for my ECW 09 project :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think ive finally found that match lol:

*WWE "ECW on Sci-Fi" 2/24/09 - ECW Championship Match - "The All-American American" Jack Swagger(c) vs "Captain Charisma" Christian *

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8jbvs_jack-swagger-vs-christian-ecw-title_sport

After all the talk here, i gotta grab it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Even though i enjoyed ECW less in it's last few months, i'd rather have a legit 3rd brand (ECW) than a development show (NXT/FCW).



HayleySabin said:


> 12 man tag from RAW in late 2011 deserves some love. Awesome, awesome southern style multiman match right there.
> 
> ****


Match was so awesome, even Mason Ryan looked good.
Went to the forum to see what people thought about it, and they were complaining about Punk celebrating the win with the babyfaces :no:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

A bit late to this but KOK's top 5 was awesome even though the order did surprise me and I disagree with having HBK/Taker I lowest of the bunch.

Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (XXV) - ★★★★★
Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H (XX) - ★★★★★
Bret Hart vs Stone Cold (13) - ★★★★★
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (XXVI) - ★★★★½
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (X) - N/A


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW Title - Backlash 26/04/2009

:mark: I get so giddy when I have to watch a match between these two. I kinda hope Swaggs wins the WHC at WM and Christian returns so they can feud over that belt too. Maybe Swagger can get back into his grove that he never really had once he left ECW.

Ohhh man, that press slam. We get a standard opening to this match, with Swagger going to the mat straight away, Christian countering with his speed and VETERAN INSTINCTS and things are even. Standard but still good. And then Swagger out of nowhere just fucking POWERS Christian over his head and launches him over the turnbuckle and right to the floor. Great move, sick bump. 

Nice to see Swagger go after the mid-section in this match, which was obviously hurt with the press slam AND sets up nicely to the Gut Wrench Powerbomb. Plus, while his arm work is usually really good in matches, variety is always nice .

Just some great sequences from these two here, usually cut off spots by Swagger whenever Christian looks to have an opening. And of course they all work nicely into his mid-section work . 

Watching Christian not just in matches with Swagger, but on ECW in general, really makes me wonder WHY Vince doesn't think more of him. He doesn't need to put the title on him and give him a 400+ day reign, but fuck, put him against anyone and he'll make them look great and put him against a champion and he'll make them look like the greatest of all fucking time. Swagger in 09 looked like a top 5 guy in the company. On the C show. After being on TV for about 6 months. Christian was a HUGE part in making him look so good for so long.

Finish to this is awesome, and again, its those VETERAN INSTINCTS from Christian that allows him to out cheat the champion, and finally dethrone him!

So this whole match was awesome, and I'm so glad at how different it was. I honestly thought it was another match focused around the arm (which I would have still fucking loved), so it was a nice surprise to see them wrestle a completely different match from before, and do almost as good. Almost, but not quite. Their Feb match is held on such a high standard by me that any match getting close to it would have to be equally as awesome. And that isn't a knock on this match because it IS awesome, just not as awesome as that match lol. Which says a lot again about their Feb match.

Rating: ****


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Backlash 2009
ECW title ****
Jericho/Steamboat ***
Kane/Punk **
I Quit match ***
Legacy/HHH,Batista,Shane ***1/2
Edge/Cena ****

Still one of my favorite ppvs ever.
Had a awesome ending which was ruined the very next night, seriously Cena couldn't stay home for one day ?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

E&C vs Hardy Boyz (Brood) NM 99 = **** 1/4 Love this so much.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;14766017 said:


> E&C vs Hardy Boyz (Brood) NM 99 = **** 1/4 Love this so much.


I love that match as well. I can literally watch this over and over and not get tired of it. A very fun ladder match that put both teams on the map. 

Speaking of fun tag team matches, 2 Cool vs. Edge & Christian vs The Hardy Boyz vs T&A for the WWF tag team titles at KOTR 2000 is a very fun tag team match. While the in-ring aspect of it isn't worth writing home about, it left me entertained the whole time during the match. Edge & Christian were also hilarious in this match.

I'd give it a *****.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tyson Kidd Vs Finlay - ECW 28/04/2009

Well hello there . Never thought I'd be this excited over a Tyson Kidd match!

Finlay takes Tyson to SCHOOL early on, showing up the cocky young punk by out wrestling him, then beating him down with his smash mouth style.

Kidd gets a break when he manages to damage the leg of the fighting Irishman, and between Finlay's great selling and attempts at escaping leg holds, and Kidd screaming shit like "I'LL BREAK HIS LEG!!", it might very well be the best control segment Tyson Kidd has ever done!

In the end, Finlay's sheleighly works against him as Tyson Kidd uses it to smash his knee and pick up a win (while nearly taking out a fan when he threw the sheleighly out of the ring lol).

This is pretty bossy. I always go into Finlay matches expecting something good, but wasn't sure how Kidd would do. I was pleasantly surprised with how well he worked. Good stuff!

Rating: ***

Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - ECW 28/04/2009

If Dreamer doesn't win the ECW title by the time his contract runs out, he isn't going to renew it. Didn't need more of a reason to root for Christian, but it's always nice to have something else .

Match is pretty slow in the early going, with both men just feeling each other out, not really going for the big moves or anything. Then they each tease hitting their finisher, and go back to taking things slow as now they know it could all end in a second if they make one mistake, so they need to be careful.

Wow, this whole match just kinda plods along. Never picking up. Dreamer does absolutely nothing worth a damn in this whole thing. Christian is Christian, so he's good, but fuck Dreamer ain't doing SHIT. Show is in MSG, fucking New York, and honestly they don't give a fuck about Dreamer or the match which really doesn't help either. Then Swagger comes in and takes both guys out. Thank god. Gonna be hard to beat this as the worst Christian ECW 09 match (a certain ladder match is a potential candidate though, as well as any matches with Ryder...).

Rating: *1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Edge/John Morrison - 6/19/09

Really solid match that starts off a little slow but by the end you feel like Morrison can hang with the likes of Edge. I love that running knee Morrison does to people when they're sitting up, looks brutal. Counters in the match were great and it was fun as hell.

***1/2

Plan on watching some more Morrison tonight, although the DANIELSON VS THE WORLD DVD I got is calling my name.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Glad to see I'm not the only one who isn't as big of a fan of Tyson Kidd as a lot of others on the forum. Although I do recall thoroughly enjoying his matches with Trent Baretta and Yoshi Tatsu on Superstars/NXT in 2011. I also don't mind him in tag team matches, whether that be with DH Smith or Justin Gabriel.

I don't know what it is about him, it's just 9 times out of 10 I can't get in to him. Is he a technically sound wrestler? Hell yeah. Does he jump out of my screen and captivate me in any way what so ever. Does he fuck!  The definition of mediocre, in my opinion. He shouldn't be pushed _that_ far, but there is a place for him on the roster and he does serve a purpose.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs Mark Henry - ECW 05/05/2009

:mark: :mark: :mark: Well this should make up for Christian/Dreamer the week before!

Oh you motherfucking fucker. Swagger shows up to ruin this . Was looking good too; Henry was a monster. Christian was fighting from the bottom. Started a comeback. Swagger ruined it. And then Dreamer makes the save and... oh god no. Tag team match.

Rating: **

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Mark Henry & Jack Swagger - ECW 05/05/2009

This could be ***** and I don't think I'd give a shit right now. I was so excited at Christian/Henry .

Dreamer was surprising me in the matches I watched that he was involved in thus far on my ECW run. Then that Christian match happened and he looked terrible. And fuck, he looks really bad in this too. Coldest hot tag ever from him, thankfully Christian comes in and generates some excitement before Henry just runs him over and we get a GOOD FIP from him.

TORNADO SLOP DROP! Aka a reverse Tornado DDT lol. Good old Striker with his mid-90's WWF references . SO yeah, this one got really good the moment Christian tagged in and Dreamer kept his fat ass on the apron. :lmao the guy looks like he's about the fucking CRY as he waits for a hot tag from Christian. Speaking of, anyone else really hate his crying "I LOVE ECW" promos? Supposed to make him sound passionate and shit but they always feel so damn forced to me.

So Dreamer gets the hot tag, and does the best work he's done all night. Christian getting caught in a WSS position only for Dreamer to roll off the apron to provide Christian with enough weight to take Henry down was great. Why couldn't Dreamer be good the entire time? Lazy fuck.

Swagger pins Dreamer. I am pleased. Match turned out good, though I still wanted my Henry Vs Christian match .

Rating: **3/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what'd you think of eddie/rey from world war 3 1997? maybe it was 96


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well now I feel kind of silly putting the 4/28/09 Dreamer match on that list and Cal saying it sucked and shit. To be frank I kind of put every Dreamer singles match I saw from Christian because I remember them all being good. There's definitely at least two I liked. I probably liked the one Cal didn't like anyway. I DID like the tag match with Christian and Dreamer on the same team v Swagger/Henry way more than Cal.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

If ya got WWE Classics on Demand, WrestleMania X-Seven is up.
Can't wait to watch TLC 2 again, for years i thought it was the original TLC match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

bme said:


> If ya got WWE Classics on Demand, WrestleMania X-Seven is up.
> Can't wait to watch TLC 2 again, for years i thought it was the original TLC match.




was watching this earlier. They don't have Angle/Benoit! Bs..... Also highly edited, crowd sounds like shit and all the music isn't right. Austin and taker don't have the right themes either. So annoyed


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

bme said:


> If ya got WWE Classics on Demand, WrestleMania X-Seven is up.
> Can't wait to watch TLC 2 again, for years i thought it was the original TLC match.


Yeah, gonna give that PPV a watch later. It's been a long time since I re-watched it.

For now, I'm going to sit back and enjoy some fuckery that is WCW Stampede 2000. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wait, they are pretending that they are airing Wrestlemania X-7 but then act like one of the matches on the card never happened? Fuck that shit. If I'm gonna watch WM17, I'll just get the DVD version or download the whole thing in good quality and connect the PC to a television for comfortable viewing.

It's obvious when WWE Network is launched and they air old Raw, SD or PPVs that they'll remove anything involving Benoit which is why I hope the damn thing flops hard.

On another note, finally watched Christian/Orton for the first time since the day it happened and wow, what an awesome match. Everything from the nearfalls to the counters, the callback spots and Orton having second thoughts about the punt as well as his inverted Boston Crab was just great! Best match in Over the Limit history. ★★★★½.

And now, two wrestler I wanted to get familiar with are Sting and Dean Malenko. Any recommendations?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

xdoomsayerx said:


> was watching this earlier. They don't have Angle/Benoit! Bs..... Also highly edited, crowd sounds like shit and all the music isn't right. Austin and taker don't have the right themes either. So annoyed


First noticed the "benoit cutout" while watching Judgement Day 2000 only because Jericho/Benoit was one of the two matches i wanted to see again.
I knew they edited Taker's american badass music but didn't know about the crowd.




1999 Rejex said:


> Yeah, gonna give that PPV a watch later. It's been a long time since I re-watched it.
> 
> For now, I'm going to sit back and enjoy some fuckery that is WCW Stampede 2000. :lol


Was gonna mention that show, i've seen some Russo ppvs but this one i tend to ignore.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I have decided to change the criteria for my Top 1000, just slightly though. Instead of the best matches of all time, I also think I am going to account my favorites as well as historical value as well, now I just need 1700-2100 more candidates lol.

LET'S GO


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I tried looking for a used wrestlemania 17 DVD the unedited version online. $75. Ridiculous.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time*​
*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)*



*25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)​*
*"This is truly what the word main event was meant for" Jesse Ventura*












I love everything about this match, the buildup was unmatched, the crowd was going crazy and both superstars played their roles to perfection. Savage, the bad guy used every advantage he could, using Elizabeth as bait, pulling the hair, taking the tap of his wrist to choke Hogan with it. I especially loved whenever Savage found an injury, especially the cut to the eye of Hogan all of his offense would center around it. This match really felt huge and is exactly what the Wrestlemania main event should be, the number 1 good guy vs the number 1 bad guy. I though Hogan did a great job of selling, and loved how Savage got most of the offense which made it better and more exciting for me. Hogan kicking out of the Elbow was huge because no one ever did. The ending really is the only letdown on this match, with Hogan hulking up and pinning Savage within a minute of hitting his flying elbow. However, I feel Savage had so much offense that I didnt feel as if he was buried so I was satisfied. Lets not forget about the commentary, Ventura and Monsoon really sold the story of the match and made this match feel epic. Am i overrating it? possibly, but this is one of my favourite WM matches of all time, and the buildup and storyline was so epic, it was a must on this Wrestlemania countdown.​
***** 1/4*​


*24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)​*
*"All I care about is winning back my Intercontinental Championship" Bret Hart*












From a storytelling perspective this is certainly one of the greatest matches in Wrestlemania history, with Piper showing so many heel mannerisms it had you constantly guessing will he or wont he turn. A few sloppy exchanges at times, but you can overlook that with the amazing storytelling. Piper was great in this, I loved how when Bret was on the outside, Piper held up the middle rope for him and when he finally got into the ring Piper sucker punched him. Also when the referee was down Piper thought about cheating, but changed his mind because he respeted Bret too much. The old Piper would of smashed him with the ring bell, such amazing storytelling. I would of loved to see this go longer, but its much like HBK/Jericho from JD 08, it didnt need to be long they sold such an amazing story in 15 minutes. I loved the intensity in this, not sure though if the blade job was necessary but Bret obviously thought it was so im ok with it. The finshing counter was one of my favourites ever, and knowing now its helped him in other big matches such as against Austin in SS 1996. The greatest match in the career of Roddy Piper in my eyes, and writing this now is making me wanna place it higher on my list. But for now this is the 24th greatest match in Wrestlemania history.​
***** 1/4​*


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena/HHH WM 22: ***1/2

Edge/Foley WM 22: ****1/4 (MOTN amazing finish)

TLC WM 17: ****1/2 (GOAT tlc match)

Hogan/Savage WM 5: ****

Piper/Hart: I need to rewatch


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Well now I feel kind of silly putting the 4/28/09 Dreamer match on that list and Cal saying it sucked and shit. To be frank I kind of put every Dreamer singles match I saw from Christian because I remember them all being good. There's definitely at least two I liked. I probably liked the one Cal didn't like anyway. I DID like the tag match with Christian and Dreamer on the same team v Swagger/Henry way more than Cal.


Only one of their matches I thought was bleh is the Night of Champions match. Dreamer's sluggish workrate was kind of hard to watch. TV matches were all good or a bit of fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Dean Malenko vs Rey Mysterio Jr. (Halloween Havoc 1996)*
Completely awesome fast paced action. There's never a dull moment in 18 or however many minutes it lasts. Just moves after moves, vintage cruiserweight action. I love Malenko's offense and Rey Mysterio is even more agile than he ever was in WWE. FAST PACED ACTION~! ★★★★

*Bret Hart vs Undertaker (One Night Only 1997)*
Interesting that I watched these two back-to-back because this is a complete 180 of the previous match. A bit longer but also a lot slower. Crowd is interesting as I hear them booing pretty much everything and the higher-pitched voices constantly chant something that sounds like "brethart!" said very quickly. I find that very hilarious. Hart constantly works on Taker's legs for the Sharpshooter and that's mostly what the match is about. DQ ending sucks but I guess it was a story advancer so it served its purpose. Then Taker goes nuts on everyone and chokeslams referees left and right. Not as good as their SummerSlam match IMO. ★★★½


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Favorite Dean Malenko Matches:

vs. Chris Benoit (Hog Wild 96) *****1/2*
vs. Eddie Guerrero (2/3 Falls) *****1/2*
vs. Scotty 2 Hotty (Backlash 00) ******
vs. Ultimo Dragon (Starrcade 96) *****1/2*
vs. Mysterio (Great American Bash 96) ******
vs. Eddie Guerrero (Uncensored 97) *****1/4* (Note: Divisive opinion here)
vs. Psychosis (World War 3 96) ******
vs. Ultimo Dragon (Clash XXXIV) *****1/4*
vs. Jericho (Slamboree 98) ******
w/ Benoit vs. Taz/Sabu (2/25/95) *****1/4*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> *Dean Malenko vs Rey Mysterio Jr. (Halloween Havoc 1996)*
> Completely awesome fast paced action. There's never a dull moment in 18 or however many minutes it lasts. Just moves after moves, vintage cruiserweight action. I love Malenko's offense and Rey Mysterio is even more agile than he ever was in WWE. FAST PACED ACTION~! ★★★★
> 
> *Bret Hart vs Undertaker (One Night Only 1997)*
> Interesting that I watched these two back-to-back because this is a complete 180 of the previous match. A bit longer but also a lot slower. Crowd is interesting as I hear them booing pretty much everything and the higher-pitched voices constantly chant something that sounds like "brethart!" said very quickly. I find that very hilarious. Hart constantly works on Taker's legs for the Sharpshooter and that's mostly what the match is about. DQ ending sucks but I guess it was a story advancer so it served its purpose. Then Taker goes nuts on everyone and chokeslams referees left and right. Not as good as their SummerSlam match IMO. ★★★½


love the first match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Favorite Dean Malenko Matches:
> 
> vs. Chris Benoit (Hog Wild 96) *****1/2*
> vs. Eddie Guerrero (2/3 Falls) *****1/2*
> ...


Gotta check these ones out too. Only seen Hog Wild with Benoit and loved it despite the open arena.



King Kenny said:


> love the first match


Yep, only watched it after reading through the thread and saw you discuss WCW 1996. Need to watch more Malenko. (and Sting too)


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

I really need to watch that Orton vs. Christian match from OTL again. Never clicks for me for some odd reason. Though I will say their Summerslam match may be the be best in their rivalry. 

I think I brought up before or seen it here but Sheamus vs. Morrison Ladder match may be one of the best to ever happen in the WWE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/Christian:

SD May Match: ****
OTL: ****1/2
SS: ****1/4

Can't be arsed to check what the other match ratings are for the feud.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

WWE matches on tap for tomorrow

Punk/Hardy TLC and Smackdown Cage match
Ziggler/Bryan trilogy from 09
Orton/Cena I Quit Match
Jeff Hardy vs. Edge (Ladder Match) (6/7)
Rey Mysterio vs Chris Jericho 2009 series (4 matches I believe, not sure)

And maybe a few 2009 TV gems, so match recommendations and some STARZ would be appreciated


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Now that you mention I QUIT between Cena and Orton, I'm just reminded that I need to finish off my Orton/Cena series reviews. Only got their 2010 matches (two) and Ironman left to go. Been putting it on hold for almost 3 months now!

Really need to watch the Jericho/Mysterio and Punk/Hardy matches too. Despite all the 2009 hate, looks like there were plenty of great stuff.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just watched Judgement Day 2003 and here are my starts for each match:

John Cena and the F.B.I vs Chris Benoit, Rhyno and Spanky - **** - Decent start to the event but a tad too short.

La Resistance vs Test and Scott Steiner - **3/4* - A meh tag team match, nothing special.

Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri vs Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin (Ladder match for the WWE tag team championships) - ****** - Hilariously fun match, Guerrero and Tajiri = AWESOMENESS. 

Battle Royal for the Intercontinental Championship (Including Booker T, Chrisitan, Goldust, Kane, Jericho, Lance Storm, Test and RVD) - ****1/2 *- Very solid match and a nice way to determine the winner of the vacant Intercontinental Championship.

Mr. America (with Zach Gowen) vs Roddy Piper (with Sean O'Haire) - **1/4* - No point in this match happening, They could have had a midcarder match and it would have been much better than this crap.

Torrie vs Stable (Bikini match) - **** - A divas bikini contest, what do you expect? still better than the crap before.

Kevin Nash vs Triple H (WHC match) - ***1/2* - Too short for a world title match, If it was longer. I could see it being a solid *** but Nash sending HHH thru the announce table really bumped it up for me, Also liked the story of two friends betrayal of each other.

Jazz vs Victoria vs Jacqueline vs Trish Stratus (Fatal four way for the Womens Championship) - **** - A solid match for the Womens title.

Brock Lesnar vs Big Show (Stretcher match for the WWE Championship) - ****** - Arguably the best Stretcher match ever, Brock really carried Big Show to an awesome match. I always liked Show's matches with Lesnar. There are really only 3 people who mesh well with Show in a match and they are Lesnar, Sheamus and Taker.

Overall: I give a 6.5/10 for this PPV. The battle royal, tag team ladder match and the stretcher match really carried this event while everything didn't hurt it but didn't help it in regards to match quality.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll try my best to make a list for Sting.

vs. Vader (Superbrawl 93) *****1/2*
vs. Vader (Starrcade 92) ******
vs. DDP (4/26/99) *****1/4* (Highly overlooked)
vs. Regal (Great American Bash 96) ****3/4* (Not the biggest fan, but Mr. WOOLCOCK and KingCal like it)
vs. Cactus Jack (Beach Blash 92) *****1/4*
vs. Vader (Great American Bash 92) *****1/4*
Wargames 92 *****3/4*
w/ Luger vs. Steiner Brothers (Superbrawl) *****1/4*
vs. Cactus Jack (11/9/91) ******
vs. Rick Rude (11/19/91) ****3/4*
vs. Ric Flair (8/21/93) ******

Sting was a great wrestler and an icon in his own right, but some of his stuff really has not aged well, with the biggest example being his COTC match with Flair that people note as the match that made him into a star.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Hey guys, remember this? :lol

Of course you don't, nor you guys have a reason too :side:

This was a WrestleMania main event fpalm :no:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching Big Show-Lesnar now, trying to finish Lesnar 2002 off today so I can move into LESNAR 2003 tomorrow :mark: :mark: :mark:.

REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ALL GOING TO DO SERIES REVIEWS AND I DID MINE AND BARELY ANYBODY ELSE DID THEIRS? YEAH. I DO.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Been watching some Lashley matches, never stopped liking this guy.
Probably will check out some more early ECWWE matches, even though i was hyped for the ECW rebirth i missed alot of their initial shows.



Choke2Death said:


> Really need to watch the Jericho/Mysterio and Punk/Hardy matches too. Despite all the 2009 hate, looks like there were plenty of great stuff.


Most of the 2009 hate i've seen has been for RAW.
SD was fn awesome.




Punter said:


> Hey guys, remember this? :lol
> 
> Of course you don't, nor you guys have a reason too :side:
> 
> This was a WrestleMania main event fpalm :no:



Remembering how i felt while watching WM27, makes me see WM29 in a while new way.
No matter how bad the build could be and how bad some of us (including myself) didn't want a rematch, Cena/Rock 2 can't possibly be as bad as that.

I couldn't believe Miz/Cena was actually going to take place and neither could the WWE, as they made Miz out to be the third wheel.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'll try my best to make a list for Sting.
> 
> vs. Vader (Superbrawl 93) *****1/2*
> vs. Vader (Starrcade 92) ******
> ...


Thanks for the list. I was meant to watch COTC with Flair the other day but just didn't happen.



KingOfKings said:


> REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ALL GOING TO DO SERIES REVIEWS AND I DID MINE AND BARELY ANYBODY ELSE DID THEIRS? YEAH. I DO.


I'm 12/15 with Orton/Cena and the only thing that held me back is the Ironman match. Just didn't have the patience to watch the whole thing even though I enjoyed it the first time. Will definitely finish the damn thing off tomorrow, though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching Big Show-Lesnar now, trying to finish Lesnar 2002 off today so I can move into LESNAR 2003 tomorrow :mark: :mark: :mark:.
> 
> REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ALL GOING TO DO SERIES REVIEWS AND I DID MINE AND BARELY ANYBODY ELSE DID THEIRS? YEAH. I DO.


Was Lesnar at Armaggeddon 2002? I scanned through the card and noticed he didn't have any matches, It seemed like a waste considering he was the hot thing right then and there.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Was Lesnar at Armaggeddon 2002? I scanned through the card and noticed he didn't have any matches, It seemed like a waste considering he was the hot thing right then and there.


-Lesnar was suspended for attacking Show.
-Angle/Show was made for Armageddon.
-Angle said his suspension would be lifted if Lesnar helped him against Show.
-Lesnar showed up and F5ed Show, helping Angle win the WWE title.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't blame you for not wanting to sit through the ironman ; it's the worst ironman match ever (not really an insult, I'm a huge fan of the stipulation and the match isn't bad) and who the fuck wants to sit through an hour of nonsense anyways, unless it's HHH-Rock or Angle-BROCK.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ALL GOING TO DO SERIES REVIEWS AND I DID MINE AND BARELY ANYBODY ELSE DID THEIRS? YEAH. I DO.


This was actually what caused me to do a Kidman/Juventud series review. I forgot who it was (possibly Hailsabin), but somebody suggested their matches as a potential series to take up.

Just watched one of the biggest carry jobs that I have ever seen: Chris Benoit/Al Snow (2/4/95). With all due respect to Al Snow, Benoit made him into a credible worker that night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Double Tables ? That match fucking owns. Benoit's DVD is SICK.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't blame you for not wanting to sit through the ironman ; it's the worst ironman match ever (not really an insult, I'm a huge fan of the stipulation and the match isn't bad) and who the fuck wants to sit through an hour of nonsense anyways, unless it's HHH-Rock or Angle-BROCK.


Nah, the match is pretty bad. I normally love long matches and that one bored me to tears. I do like their HIAC and I Quit match though. I think there was a moment in their I Quit where Orton slapped him with the chair somewhere on his body and Cena sold as if he got his arm chopped off. Great match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

An Undertaker/Angle or Undertaker/HBK Ironman match would have been epic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't like the cell match at all and the breaking point match is good but nothing else. The only NEAR CLASSIC thing Orton and Cena have ever done together would be the No Way Out 2008 match, she's a dandy match indeed.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't like the cell match at all and the breaking point match is good but nothing else. The only NEAR CLASSIC thing Orton and Cena have ever done together would be the No Way Out 2008 match, she's a dandy match indeed.


Agreed the only matches I can stand of the Orton/Cena rivalry is the NWO 2008 match and the I Quit (even though I thinks it's average). So much forced chemistry by WWE. Cena/Punk was where it was at


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ALL GOING TO DO SERIES REVIEWS AND I DID MINE AND BARELY ANYBODY ELSE DID THEIRS? YEAH. I DO.


I posted part of my reviews a few days ago on Punker vs Cena. 8*D


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena/Orton matches I think have just been disappointing. You look at those 2 stars and expect them to put on great matches, not up and down matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only person insane enough to love Orton/Cena just as much if not more than Punk/Cena is *Choke2Death*, but he doesn't count because he's a closet Punk mark anyways unk2 unk2


FINISH IT CODY YOU LAZY FUCK :cena2.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Id actually like to see cena/orton have one more match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Breaking Point I Quit needs love here. That takes the cake right now as my personal favorite Cena vs Orton match. NWO '08 clocks in at #2. I don't hate Hell in a Cell or Iron Man either. Summerslam '07 is solid, '09's is whatever, & Unforgiven '07 is terrible.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena in I quit matches are fucking pointless lol. Like cena would scream I quit!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not the fact that Cena-Orton is BAD, it's just that the WWE acts as if this is Rock vs Austin going at it once again, trying to make it as epic as possible when the person who Cena has the most natural chemistry with is clearly CM Punk as they're complete fucking inverses of each other.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At this point in time it comes off that way. vs Orton it was done in tremendous fashion & was only his second I Quit match with the company. There wasn't any foregone conclusion Cena would walk away with Championship in hand like it was vs Batista or Miz.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I legit prefer the Batista-Cena I Quit to the Orton-Cena I Quit match, mainly because well.... I think it's better and the chemistry between Big Dave and Cena fucking rules. They had a match that landed in the 30s on my Mania countdown, that has to count for something .

If they were going to do Orton-Cena and make it epic, they should have just had Orton-Cena headline XXV with HHH-Edge as the co main event. WHY THIS WAS SO HARD TO DO MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING SENSE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Batista I Quit is meh. Watched it about a month ago and it doesn't hold up at all. tbf I was never big on it as it is. Last Man Standing or Summerslam with those two. WrestleMania is solid at best. I can't see the appeal in thinking it is "really good" let alone great. Seen it a bunch of times. Never view it as such.

Cena vs Orton probably tops all of the Cena/Batista matches for me. I'm going to stretch probably b/c I'd have to watch the 3 _(LMS & Summerslam)_ back to back to back to see this point.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Totally agree. I never ever cared for Cena/Batista matches. Not even their wrestlemania one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Batista/Cena Last Man Standing is fucking AWESOME and the best of the series by far.

"I HATE YOU BATISTA!" ... "I HATE YOU TOO!"

:cena2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. It's the front runner for me too. 

At this rate...

Summerslam 2008 ~ ***3/4
WrestleMania 26 ~ **3/4
Extreme Rules 2010 ~ ****
Over The Limit ~ **

Blow off was severely underwhelming. Most managed to give you something to chew on. Wished Mania worked out better. Thankfully the rest of the show was so complete and fun it didn't matter.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Batista vs John Cena series:

Summerslam 2008 : **** 3/4*
Wrestlemania 26 : **** 1/2*
Extreme Rules 2010 : **** 3/4*
Over the Limit : Have to rewatch

I enjoyed the series, but ring wise it was just solid nothing of the Classic variety. I agree with you KOK and CODY that the LMS is the best match they have had, but I also wanted to give their Summerslam match props to on any given day I could have it as my best match of their series. 

Alright after watching Vaders awesome performance in the final four last night can anyone give me a list of other great Vader matches? 

It's a crime I haven't seen a lot of his work. 

Dat Vader :mark:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker & Angle have had a total of 12 single matches on TV and PPV, I'd be willing to review them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We're exact on two and far off on two. Just like most of the time .

I'm bored. Might as well start posting these since I have like 30-40 done already .

*KingOfKings BROCK LESNAR Project : April/May 2002*


*The PPV Matches*


_vs Jeff Hardy Backlash 2002_

How does BROCK start off his legendary WWE run? Why, destroying JEFF HARDY on PPV of course! Since I hate Jeff Hardy more than anybody else in wrestling history this will be the GOAT match to me but I’ll try to be as objective as possible even though it’ll be hard. Jeff tries his aerial shit but BROCK says “I ain’t got no time for that shit boy” and proceeds to give Hardy one of the absolute biggest beatings I have ever seen in wrestling. I mean my god Jeff can really take a beating as evidenced by his match against Taker in 2002 and this one in particular. Jeff finally catches him as I love the contrast in styles here, but Lesnar says “fuck this shit I’m going home” and F-5’s the fuck out of Jeff. One big HOLY FUCKING JESUS BROCK BOMB and Jeff is KO’ed and pronounced DOA.

What a great showcase for Lesnar, and one of the most enjoyable squash matches I have ever seen. As we’re going to see a lot in this project, there’s no such thing as a Lesnar match that’s not Good/Fun/Both.

*** 1/2*

_W/Heyman vs The Hardy Boys Judgment Day 02_

Heyman stays on the outside of the ring the entire time while BROCK dismantles the Hardys. GOOD GOD the Hardys can take a beating, but I’m legitimately starting to feel bad for them since they were probably taking beatings from BROCK on every single house show at this point, so they were probably sore mother fuckers at this point in their careers, no wonder why Jeff and Matt are so fucked up, IT’S BORK’S FAULT DAMN IT. This is the typical fun BROCK squash , only this time he’s squashing two Hardys for the price of one, and he’s doing it with style including one of the sickest belly to belly suplexes I’ve ever seen. HEYMAN GETS THE PIN! YES! THIS MAKES THE MATCH THAT MUCH MORE AWESOME.

****


*The EURO PPV/Television Matches*


_Vs Matt Hardy 4/22/02 RAW_

So yeah, this is Brock’s TV debut and what a showcase he puts on here. Matt’s ribs are heavily taped so what does BROCK the in-ring psychologist do? He fucks up the ribs completely with a bunch of rib breakers and power moves until he gets caught by Matt. Matt dominates on offense for like a grand total of 30 seconds and then proceeds to get fucked up again, but this match lasts only 3 minutes and ends with an F-5, a SICK Lesnar powerbomb, and a referee stoppage. 
Brock gets put over by Matt Hardy like a GOD here and is a really, REALLY great short little squash match. BORK SQUASH.

*** ¼*

_Vs Shawn Stasiak 04/29/02 RAW_

This match is less than two minutes long, but I’d be damned if it wasn’t an extremely entertaining 2 minutes. Stasiak takes Brock down right from the get go and goes for a running spear which Lesnar turns into a resounding spinebuster that breaks Stasiak in half RINGPOST SMASH, F-5, AND BROCK BOMB causes the referee stoppage. AWESOME SEGMENT, but it doesn’t reach my match rating criteria as the match is under three minutes (I’d let something slide, but not if it’s less than two minutes FFS). Heyman was gold here and Lesnar looked awesome.

*N/A (Time)*

_Vs Shawn Stasiak 05/6/02 RAW_

Match starts off with Stasiak kicking Brock, which promptly results in Brock tossing him from one side of the ring to another while Heyman screams “DON’T PIN HIM….. MAKE AN EXAMPLE”, God Heyman is such an awesome manager I can’t even fathom it. Brock does power move after power move and ends Stasiak in two and a half minutes. Complete BROCK SQUASH here which means it’s higher than a normal squash and amazing, just too short to give a significant rating to.

****

_w/Shawn Stasiak vs The Hardy Boyz Insurrexxion 05/04/02_

Oh boy Shawn Stasiak, you are one stupid mother fucker. Pre-match Heyman and Brock instruct Stasiak to stay the fuck out of the match or proceed to get completely owned and destroyed by BROCK LESNAR and my god does BROCK look scary. Naturally Stasiak is crazy and runs in during Brock’s entrance so he can start off the match. The Hardys look good and get the best of Shawn so he tags in BROCK, who does what BROCK does best and promptly KILLS BOTH HARDYS. 

I mean DAMN, he just takes Matt and Jeff and beats them both into a fine pulp with his rib breakers and other various power moves. He does this until crazy Shawn makes a stupid mistake and tags back in, causing the Hardys to destroy him and cover Stasiak for the win. Brock takes this well as you can imagine, and proceeds to brutally assault all three men and leave them laying in the center of the ring.

Both Hardys sold awesome, BROCK looked like typical BROCK, and Shawn Stasiak…. Errr…. He was Shawn Stasiak . Solid tag match and another early career BROCK showcase, which are always so much fun.

****

_Vs Hardys 05/13/02 RAW_

So believe it or not this is Lesnar’s first TV loss albeit a disqualification one. Another 3 minute long match here as Brock starts off with a few corner strikes that look really, really stiff. Jeff sells it so well as I’m starting to believe that the Hardy Boys were the perfect opening feud for Brock due to their high octane offense and elite ability to sell a beating. To describe this match would be simple ; Lesnar owns but the 2 on 1 advantage is too much causing Heyman to get Brock intentionally DQ’ed. This was just a short set up match to the Heyman/Brock vs Hardys tag at Judgment Day…. Still, Brock’s streak of unbelievably FUN matches carries on here.

**3/4*

_Vs Bubba Ray Dudley 05/2702 RAW_

This is the first match where somebody actually gets a near fall on Lesnar, which Bubba gets three. I don’t know why BUBBA RAY DUDLEY of all fucking people gets to have Brock’s first big near fall, but it’s pretty harmless so I don’t have much of a problem with it. This was a fairly decent match and given more than five minutes which I’m not accustomed to seeing BROCK in at this point in his career.

Probably Brock’s weakest singles match to this point but that’s not saying anything bad about the match because literally everything BROCK has done so far has been captivating. The F-5 and some of these suplexes are breathtaking, but Bubba is on offense for far too long. I’ll rate an average six minute match the same as I’ll rate a good match at 3 minutes. Decent big man encounter but nothing worth going out of your way to see

****​
Just a little snapshot of ever match seeing as if I wrote a full in depth review of each I'd probably die before the project is over. ONE MATCH LEFT IN 2002 :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Ken Shamrock ~ WWF A Cold Day In Hell '97
vs Shawn Michaels ~ Summerslam '96 _(you've seen this, right?)_
vs Cactus Jack ~ WCW Halloween Havoc '93
vs Sting ~ WCW Great American Bash '92, Starrcade '92, SuperBrawl III, Slamboree '94, & Fall Brawl '94 _(aka all their singles matches iirc)_
w/SID vs Sting & Davey Smith ~ WCW Beach Blast '93
w/Rick Rude vs Ric Flair & Sting ~ WCW Clash of the Champions XXVI
vs Mitsuharu Misawa ~ AJPW 5/2/99, 9/4/99, 10/30/99, 4/7/00, Pro Wrestling NOAH 12/23/00 _(I think the April 2000 match is my favorite. A bit ashamed I'm having trouble piecing together a series I love so much)_


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fuck a duck. Every Vader vs Undertaker match deserves a plug from myself too. ahhhh.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Cheers bud, yer I've seen his match against HBK and all of his matches against Sting :mark: 

Looking forward to seeing his Japan stuff especially. Ill give a watch to his stuff against Misawa later should be epic(Y)

Great review KOK, love me some Brock squash matches. One day when I have the patience I will review all of HBK's career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do think it was their final singles match from NOAH that I'm remembering the most vividly actually. I almost said a spot from the match, but if you watch it (it's last, so naturally the progression towards it would be for the best) you'll have to know which specific moment I mean. It's insane.

I'm feeling too tired atm, but I need to do a mini-review on Money in the Bank 2012 soon. Re-watched it for about the 4th time overall today and things finally changed for me. My set opinion has gone though the proverbial peaks, if you will.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I liked all of the Cena/Batista matches, especially LMS. Memory is a bit dodgy on the I Quit match but I don't remember it being bad. 

Batista's heel run before he left was straight BOSS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So great it made me a Batista fan. 

And I hated the guy from nearly the start of his main event push too. I think his heel turn being so brilliant is what gives hope to Orton fans that something so monumental can happen with such a simple twist.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Alright well when I get the chance ill give it a watch and maybe a review. Been getting in Puro more lately 

I have mixed reviews on MITB 2012 at first I loved majority of it, then didn't, but I think it was an overall satisfying PPV. 

Dolphs selling was the absolute highlight :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Orton/Cena I Quit is far above anything else they've ever produced. SO FUCKING FAR


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't get the dislike for the WWE Championship MITB ladder match. It demolishes the fairly mediocre opener. Although, the World Championship ladder match has my favorite spot of the night - Tensai LAUNCHING Dolph into the commentator chair. It's completely absurd the strength shown & the head bump Dolph took.

Punker vs Danielson is still great. This time I finally started to see why the AJ stuff could take some out of it. Nothing to call it "bad" though. That's a mindset I don't think I'll ever get.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Who's the person who REALLY hates that match ? I'm assuming it's chokes but DAMN that match is awesome as fuck, not better than the OTL match but it's pretty awesome nonetheless.

I have a Brock-Albert match in my near future. BE JEALOUS.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Cena/Batista (SS) ****
Cena/Batista (WM26) ****
I've watched their LMS & I Quit matches but don't remember much about either, will have to watch again.

While i thought Batista's heel run was awesome i liked his face run too, he was the polar opposite of Cena.
Reminds me that i have yet to see his LMS and Cage matches with Taker, saw WM23 and thought their match was great but at the time i wasn't ordering any WWE ppv unless it was mania.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I remember having the Batista & Cena at WM match about ***3/4 Haven't seen it since it was live though. Their LMS was about ****1/4 for me, too. Didn't see OTL.


Got a write up, bit longer than I expected, for Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernodle. This a good place to put it? Or the WCW Discussion? It being a NWA match, with most stuff on every page of this topic being very recent WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Who's the person who REALLY hates that match ? I'm assuming it's chokes but DAMN that match is awesome as fuck, not better than the OTL match but it's pretty awesome nonetheless.
> 
> I have a Brock-Albert match in my near future. BE JEALOUS.


C2D & JoeRulz.

I wonder if that's the match where Brock dropped Albert right on his head. Epic botch.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I thought Punk/Bryan MITB was better than OTL on a first watch. Haven't seen either since.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They have two, one in January and one in February. Hard to believe that Brock has had like FIVE singles matches against Matt Hardy in his short career. Love how they kept BROCK strong by feeding him lower card members of the roster on a consistent basis.

The January 3rd match against Hardy is a match where Lesnar squashes Hardy whilst wearing gym pants and a t-shirt and I mean he straight up KILLS Matt. In a 6 minute match Matt hits the twist of fate and that's it. Brock's incapability of having a bad match astounds me as we're getting closer and closer to one full calendar year without a bad match with a handful of classics damn it.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I enjoyed Punk/Bryan MITB I thought it was great, ****** for me, didn't enjoy the storyline being centred around AJ. But I think they made the most of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> They have two, one in January and one in February. Hard to believe that Brock has had like FIVE singles matches against Matt Hardy in his short career. Love how they kept BROCK strong by feeding him lower card members of the roster on a consistent basis.
> 
> The January 3rd match against Hardy is a match where Lesnar squashes Hardy whilst wearing gym pants and a t-shirt and I mean he straight up KILLS Matt. In a 6 minute match Matt hits the twist of fate and that's it. Brock's incapability of having a bad match astounds me as we're getting closer and closer to one full calendar year without a bad match with a handful of classics damn it.


It's got to be one of those then. :side:

Brock with that x-factor. Sounds like he's got that appeal of making squashes worth watching how another beast the type of Henry or Show do so. Or with the talent and swag of a Regal, Finlay, or a new one to be listed tonight, Rick Rude.





shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I enjoyed Punk/Bryan MITB I thought it was great, ****** for me, didn't enjoy the storyline being centred around AJ. But I think they made the most of it.


I have no problems with the storyline. I think with how the Over The Limit match being filled with no WWE sensationalized stories, only straight up wrestling, it led down some to a path of mild disappointment that it wasn't going to get to be the same type of match the second time around. Only a guess. I loved it being different. Incorporation of the No DQ stip was used in a fantastic manner. Brutal would shape the match in proper form, tbhayley. It is just that - so brutal. ****1/4, imo.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Top 10 WrestleMania Matches while I'm at it

1. Michaels/Undertaker, XXVI *******
2. Austin/Hart, 13 *******
3. Michaels/Cena, 23 *****3/4*
4. Austin/Rock, XIX *****3/4*
5. Michaels/Ramon, X *****1/2*
6. Hart/Hart, X *****1/2*
7. Michaels/Undertaker, XXV *****1/2*
8. Triple H/Undertaker, XXVII *****1/2*
9. Triple H/Undertaker, XXVIII *****1/2*
10. Triple H/Benoit/Michaels, XX *****1/2*

I think...


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> II have no problems with the storyline. I think with how the Over The Limit match being filled with no WWE sensationalized stories, only straight up wrestling, it led down some to a path of mild disappointment that it wasn't going to get to be the same type of match the second time around. Only a guess. I loved it being different. Incorporation of the No DQ stip was used in a fantastic manner. Brutal would shape the match in proper form, tbhayley. It is just that - so brutal. ****1/4, imo.


I just hated that the storyline revolved around AJ, I guess I was just hoping for a Punk/Bryan feud that centred around just them. I loved that the match was different and brutal some of Bryan's kick were absolutely vicious. Those guys beat the crap out of each other and I loved it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My Top 10 favourite WrestleMania matches:

*#10 - Shawn Michaels vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WM 14)* - HBK had his back broken, and essentially his career broken. Austin? Still reeling on huge pain and the effects of the broken freakin' neck. And even with a broken neck and a broken back respectively, HBK and Austin delievered a classic. Unbelievable. The atmosphere helped a lot too, since the Boston crowd was rabid for this one, and alongside the great psychology, brawling and big match feel, I see here perhaps one of the biggest What If's in WM history: what if this match still happened but neither man was injured? Shit you can only dream of.

*#9 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage (WM 8)* - Holy fuck, was this ever lovingly personal. It was nothing more than a Plan B after they didn't went with Hogan/Flair (alongside the horrible Hogan/Sid match), but for a Plan B, it quite worked. Sure, it helped that you had Flair and Savage beating the hell out of each other in their primes, but that's exactly one of the major reasons why this is so awesome. It's perhaps the closest you ever got to Hogan/Flair with both men in their primes. The build up was awesome, Flair went to WM like a strong heat magnet, and the match was a stiff, violent wrestling WAR. Amazing stuff and easily Flair's best WM match and Savage's 2nd best (2nd to #7 in this list) IMO.

*#8 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (WM 20)* - Emotion was just one of the minor keys. Here's the main ignition for the sucess of this Triple Threat: intensity. Pure raw intensity. That's what this match was all about. With three of the greatest of all time, the 'E did EXACTLY the right thing - to let them go completely balls out in MSG and give every damn thing they had. And boy, did they ever do it. Now, I don't want to be prejudiced and play with the whole "Krispin Wah" or "Chris who?" jokes, but I do admit that my ranking for this match was way higher, before a certain tragedy in 2007 killed (no pun intended) my respect for Benoit the person. Has it killed my respect for Benoit the wrestler? Well, no. Regardless of what he did, Benoit is a fucking legend, with one of the greatest legacies in history. And even though the future wasn't happy at all for him, he deserved every single bit of the WHC. Not to mention, the post-match celebration is one of the greatest moments in WM history.

*#7 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage (WM 7)* - And speaking of a post-match "celebration" being one of the greatest moments in WM history, the Savage/Elizabeth reunion is one of, if not THE single most heartwarming things I've ever seen in a wrestling ring. But of course, a moment only comes realized when it's backed by a great match - and boy, this wasn't great, it was phenomenal. The Ultimate Warrior's greatest match BY FAR, you could tell Savage carried him, but Warrior actually more than held his own. Some innovations in this match, like the multiple finishers in a row and the finisher kick-out (which at the time, were completely unheard of), made it even more of a classic. And unlike most matches of its kind, it wasn't more of a match or a moment - it was more of BOTH at the same time. That balance might be the reason that makes it so awesome. And yes, Savage, the loser, actually lasted more in the company than Warrior, the winner, when this was supposed to be a Retirement Match, but much like Flair's bullshit retirement, it's compensated by this match itself being a spectacle.

*#6 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WM 26)* - Another amazing match followed by an amazing moment. Sure, HBK retiring isn't "amazing" in any stretch possible, but you know what I mean. What no one can deny is that he lost and went away in a valiant effort. The unanimous big eye raiser was that, no matter how hard they tried, they couldn't deliever a match that was as good as the one they had the previous year at 25. Well, that's arguable, but the fact is that both of these matches were completely different. The match at 25 was a spectacle, a wrestling technical masterpiece, essentially the feel of a dream match. This was much deeper, much more personal and much more storyline driven. Now admitedly, the 25 classic surely didn't call for a rematch, but if I was to know that it would be completely different (in a spectacularly positive way) than its predecessor, I would be all for it since the kickstart. Storytelling? Brilliant. Psychology? Potential GOAT. Atmosphere? Not as good at 25, but still nuts. Could you really ask for more in the circumstances this match happened? No, you couldn't. For its kind, this was PERFECT.

*#5 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H (WM 28)* - Many of you will think I'm insane by putting this one this high in my top 10 WrestleMania matches, but it's my top 10 FAVORITE, and believe me, this one was one of my favourites ever. Yes, it was slow paced. Yes, the Cell was essentially useless (other than that part where they spent pretty much the initial 5 minutes of the match throwing each other into the Cell's walls like pinballs and raking their faces on it). And yes, it marked the end of... well, nothing. BUT, the match itself was incredible. People that know me very well acknowledge that Undertaker vs. H inside HIAC is one of the biggest dream matches I ever wanted. After all, they are the kings of HIAC. And it actually happening at WM with HBK (2nd to SCSA as my all time favourite in WWE history) as ref was awesome. The match was brutal, it had insane storytelling, atmosphere and psychology, and it helped having like 10000 kick-outs. And yes, I was one of the thousands in the world watching WM 28 live thinking the Streak was over after the SCM-Pedigree combo. We all know that it wasn't HHH's final match, not even Taker's actually, but had it been, it would've been even better of a moment than Flair's final exclamation point at WM 24.

*#4 - The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WM 17)* - Does the word HUGE make this justice? The two biggest icons of the biggest wrestling company in the world, in their peak, in front of 60,000+ people, beating the shit out of each other. Screams epic. And it was. It was essentially the be all, end all of the time - just like the storyline demanded, they were pulling every single stop to beat the other. Ring bells, chairshots, enormous Superplexes, finisher theft, even allying to Vince fucking McMahon. It REALLY made you believe that they wanted to win, and they wanted to win more than anyone in the world. Both Austin and Rock looked like Thor and Hercules, unstoppable in win and defeat respectively. And while the heel turn kinda flopped because the Houston crowd was cheering for Austin regardless of him shaking Vince's hands (no surprise though, it was essentially Austin's hometown), it did set the bar for a terrific 2001 for HEEL SCSA. GOAT WM Main Event IMO.

*#3 - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WM 10)* - Like KOK said, this CLICKED. And it clicked in every aspect. Both men played their parts in the build up as perfecly as possible, both men made people REALLY care about a brother vs. brother feud (which usually flops, but not this time). And they drew people into easily one of the greatest matches in WWE history. One could argue that the Steel Cage Match at SummerSlam later this year was as good if not BETTER, but this was way different than that match. It had much tougher circumstances to provide us a classic - it wasn't a title match, it wasn't inside a cage, it was the OPENER of the biggest show of the year... but, in that remark, its the single greatest opener in WWE history. One would think this was a Bret carryjob, but Owen proved here that he was as good as his brother, which was in a way the point of the storyline (though Owen actually wanted to be not as good, but better than Bret). Ladies and gentlemen, what you behold here is, quite honestly, the greatest piece of technical art in WM history, and one of the greatest in WWE (and perhaps wrestling overall) history. If you loved the Angle/Benoit, Punk/Bryan, Flair/Steamboat, etc. type matches where two guys go out there and put on a masterpiece, you will ADORE this one.

*#2 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WM 25)* - To many people, the greatest match in WM history. In my opinion, only 2nd to this next match, but believe me, it's just a fingernail below in overall awesomeness. Their 26 match was, like I said, absolutely different than this one, in that it had much better psychology, much better wrestling and much more deep significance. That wasn't the intent in this one. This was meant to be a big match. Well, not big - giant. Like Rock/Austin at 17 giant. These were two Texans in Houston, under the tagline of a war between Heaven and Hell, in their 1st singles match since 1998. The Streak vs. Mr. WrestleMania. No need for much more. The drama, the big match feel, the atmosphere, the incredible pace... well, I don't think I need to talk much more about this one. 

*#1 - Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WM 13)* - HHH had the Street Fight with Mick Foley. HBK had the Ladder Match with Razor Ramon. The Rock had the I Quit Match with Foley too. And Stone Cold had the No DQ Submission Match with Bret Hart. The real start of the Attitude Era IMO, this was beyond incredible, and if you're a WWE fan and haven't watched this yet, make yourself a favour and DO IT. 'Nuff said.

It's crazy to think the number of classics in WM history alone, and to think there are still many more to come. Is it even possible at the end of the day to make a PROPER Top 10 WM matches of all time?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> C2D & JoeRulz.
> 
> I wonder if that's the match where Brock dropped Albert right on his head. Epic botch.


They also had a match later on in Lesnar's Japan run too...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I've seen a great Three Way Match these days. The one from Vengeance 03 between Angle/Lesnar/Show. ***3/4 from.me, fun match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Any thoughts on the Rock/Austin match from Rebellion 2001?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Any thoughts on the Rock/Austin match from Rebellion 2001?


Pretty shiiiiiiiity. Edit: Found my thoughts as well as Andy's (I think they were his anyway lol):



Andy from elsewhere said:


> Steve Austin v The Rock (Rebellion, 11/3/01)
> - Well, this was pretty weak. I mean, it's okay, and good in parts, but nowhere near as good as it had the potential to be. Comparing it to the Wrestlemania 17 match, it's tremendously disappointing. Granted, expecting a match to be as good as that is likely to leave one disappointed more often than not, but still. It's actually worked pretty similarly to the Wrestlemania match in that it's one of those heel Austin formula brawls, but it never really progresses past that "brawling" point, effectively becoming the first half of the Wrestlemania match stretched out for half an hour. Rock's punches looked pretty woeful here, too. Usually I don't mind them too much, but comparing them here to what they were like even 2 months later, they look terrible in comparison. There's also a shitty sharpshooter spot where Austin's makes Rock's look like Bret Hart's in comparison. Then the ref' bump and overbooked finish adds another layer of suck. I know it sounds like I'm shitting on this, and I kinda am, but there's still good points to it, as you'd expect. Just not enough to really make it anything special at all. I'm interested in hearing what others think of this, because I might have watched this at a bad time or something.


Just watched it, and unless both of us watched it at a bad time or something, then this match really is just "meh".

Its a 25 minute brawl, which starts off hot, and slowly gets incredibly boring as they really don't change up what they are doing. Rock's punches do indeed look shittier than usual, and Austin doesn't exactly look like Mr Motivated here. The ref bump is stupid as hell, with Austin running into him first, followed by Rocky missing a clothesline on Austin, continuing forward and hitting a SEPARATE clothesline on the ref! Seriously, he put his arm back down, ran forward towards the ref and THEN knocked him down. Just looked horrible. And Andy was right on the money with Austin's Sharpshooter, it was hideous, like, Edge's Overhead Belly to Belly hideous .

So after brawling and brawling some more, the ref bump happens and we get some pretty weak interference (Angle's chair shot looks like it wouldn't even hurt a small child), which leads to Austin retaining the belt.

Honestly, I wouldn't go as far as to say there was some good in this match like Andy did, because I was bored almost all the way through and didn't think they did anything more than have a mediocre brawl. Not nominating, not pimping, not watching again. Hidden gem my arse, I swear than since Austin101 rated it ****1/4 and said it was awesome, most other people just agreed with him instead of watching it and calling it like it is.

Rating: ** and I would say that their WM15 match is better than this quite easily.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rock/Austin from Rebellion has ***1/2 from me.Not their best match, but a solid one. The long ref bump kinda hurt the match, but it was still a good main-event. Deserves a watch


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I saw FluxCapacitator ask for TV gems, I skimmed and assumed no-one pimped Finlay/Hardy 6/22/07 from Smackdown? Hell if someone pimped it I'll second it even though I'm 99% sure nobody other than possibly Yeah1993 would think to include it. Watch it. Adore it. Come back and proclaim Matt Hardy to be a sorely under appreciated and overlooked worker from the last decade in WWE. Yadda Yadda Yadda.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mark Henry Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 12/05/2009

Time for Dreamer to pay for sucking lately. BEAT HIM HIM AND BREAK HIS NECK MARK.

MARK HENRY HAS LEGS THE SIZE OF PEOPLE. That might be my favourite non Dusty commentary line EVER.

Henry beats the fuck out of Dreamer. Nothing to dislike here at all lol. Dreamer's comeback is hilariously bad. That "E! C! W!" thing he does makes him look like a retard, and then when he runs into the corner for a dropkick... I'd be faster walking, let's put it that way :lmao. He hits the DDT, but Henry gets his foot on the ropes, then gets back to his feet and murders the heart and soul of ECW with a WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM.

This was good, mainly because Dreamer barely got anything in until right at the end and that was only for about 30 seconds.

Rating: **

Tyson Kidd Vs Finlay - ECW 12/05/2009

I'll happily take another match between these two . Natalya has been banned from ringside because... she distracted the ref in their last match? I don't remember nor care. FINLAY.

Finlay controls the match early on, looking great as usual. He works the arm, and there's a great little spot where Finlay smiles and says "come on" to Kidd, begging him to try to escape, so Kidd smashes him in the face with an elbow shot! Their last match revolved around Kidd working the leg of Finlay, and it was successful, so he tries the same thing again here.

Finlay keeps managing to avoid the leg work, and they end up just doing some hard hitting shit to each other on the outside before Kidd manages to smash Finlay into the ring steps and injure his arm.

Decent enough arm work, not as good as the leg stuff from a few weeks ago. Nice comeback from Finlay, selling the arm all the way, then when he's about to hit the Celtic Cross, DAVID HART SMITH shows up to bore me to death... I mean help Kidd and they double team Finlay.

Good match overall.

Rating: **1/2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Punk/Bryan (MITB) is like a bad Spielberg or Nolan movie.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - Judgment Day 17/05/2009

This is their last singles match ever, right? I don't recall them having another match on ECW or anywhere else following this. Am I forgetting something? I remember very little about this one. In fact, I only remember who wins.

Christian shows us some nice progression in this series right from the get go, avoiding all of Swagger's attempts to take this to the mat and attempting to turn this into a brawl. I like how Swagger went for that press slam the first time he got his hands on Christian too, but Christian was able to avoid that too.

Christian really on his game so far, not letting Swagger get much in at all. He's the champ in this match and HE is the one trying to dictate the pace of the match. But Swagger still has all that power, and fuck, another great spot with said power that launches Christian from his shoulders back first into the ring post. Awesome.

Speaking of great spots, Swagger goes for the Vader Bomb move in the corner, and Christian gets his knees up... but Swagger essentially gives himself a CODE BREAKER by going head first :lmao.

Swagger really doesn't get too much in here, even though he works over Christian's back and mid-section. Christian seems to be more confident and resilient now he's champion, and he really is one step ahead of Swagger in this bout. Any time Swagger looks to get on a role, Christian will find a counter or will out-smart or out-maneuver the rookie. Might seem like a weird match structure, but I really like it. Shows how their series has progressed and how they as wrestlers have progressed too. Swagger was the young, cocky rookie who rolled over everyone, became champion and was dominating. Christian is the veteran who made his return and was looking to make an impact. They battled and eventually Christian won in a hard fought match. Now the confidence of Swagger might not be as high, while Christian is on top of his game.

Finish see's Christian once again out-cheating Swagger to pick up the win. Really good match, but certainly a step behind their previous title matches.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

ATF said:


> My Top 10 favourite WrestleMania matches:
> 
> *#10 - Shawn Michaels vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WM 14)* - HBK had his back broken, and essentially his career broken. Austin? Still reeling on huge pain and the effects of the broken freakin' neck. And even with a broken neck and a broken back respectively, HBK and Austin delievered a classic. Unbelievable. The atmosphere helped a lot too, since the Boston crowd was rabid for this one, and alongside the great psychology, brawling and big match feel, I see here perhaps one of the biggest What If's in WM history: what if this match still happened but neither man was injured? Shit you can only dream of.
> 
> ...


Very good write-up dude, and kudos on the effort (Y)

I especially liked that you boldly added Savage/Warrior to your list. What a fantastic match that is overlooked due to people's disdain for Warrior as a worker. Macho Man Randy Savage vs the Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 7 was bar none the greatest match of Warrior's career. I put the match almost on the caliber of Savage/Steamboat if only for the fact that Randy managed to carry Warrior to a fantastic bout that complimented both men's style. The stipulation behind the match which gave it suspense, the emotional multiple flying elbow spot, the ending where Macho successfully managed to go from being hated by more than half the crowd to being cheered by absolutely everyone. Great story told, pure entertainment. Very good match from the Golden Era that completely stole the show.

Might do a list of my own soon, seing the ones on here, I think mine will be distinctively different from the one's i've seen in the last handful of posts, so I won't be treading on redundancy (hopefully).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Top 5 LMS matches, anyone? I'll start.

1.) HBK vs. Triple H (for the WHC) - Royal Rumble 2004
2.) John Cena vs. Umaga (for the WWE championship) - Royal Rumble 2007
3.) Shane McMahon vs. Kane - Unforgiven 2003
4.) Chris Jericho vs. Kane - Armageddon 2000
5.) Randy Orton vs. Triple H (for the WWE championship) - No Mercy 2007

Honorable mentions:
- John Cena vs. Edge (for the WWE championship) - Backlash 2009
- Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Backlash 2007
- JBL vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE championship) - SD 2005
- Shane McMahon vs. Big Show - Backlash 2001
- Chris Jericho vs. Triple H - Fully Loaded 2000


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Chris Jericho vs. Triple H is the GOAT Last Man Standing match. Jericho's greatest ever face performance and possibly greatest match of his career, and the best HHH match in his career year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Big Z you never answered me?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Top 5 LMS matches, anyone? I'll start.
> 
> *1.) HBK vs. Triple H (for the WHC) - Royal Rumble 2004*
> 2.) John Cena vs. Umaga (for the WWE championship) - Royal Rumble 2007
> ...


Seriously? I remember hating that match every time I've seen it. Maybe a star max for it. 3 and 4 are horrible choices too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> Big Z you never answered me?


What did ya ask me?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I think it was about Eddie/Rey from world war 97..might've been 96.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> I think it was about Eddie/Rey from world war 97..might've been 96.


97. And it's totally forgettable. Some people even thought it was BAD (Woolcock maybe?) when we did the WCW Poll.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

favourite PPV matches from WCW 1996-1997?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't think I watched that one Cal. Pretty sure most of my apathy and loathing was directed at Malenko IIRC. Think it might have been one of Rickeey, Seabs, Moops or maybe even Andy.

And yeah going back to LMS matches, its HHH/Jericho from Fully Loaded followed by Cena/Umaga '07. Can't think of what I'd cite as the third best LMS match but its way below the top two. Arguably HHH's career performance alongside being Jericho's standout performance.

As to whoever said Morrison/Sheamus from TLC '10 was one of the better ladder matches in company history (capone?), I agree. Top 3 imo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i feel like buying WOOLCOCK a membership


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Top 5 last man standing matches:

1. Chris Jericho vs Triple H fully loaded 2000
2. John Cena vs Umaga Royal Rumble 2007 
3. Triple H vs Randy Orton No Mercy 2007
4. Triple H vs Ric Flair Survivor Series 2005 
5. John Cena vs Edge Backlash 2009

Ill be straight up, after the top 2 I had trouble remembering other great LMS matches. I really think they are head and shoulders above the rest. I could be forgetting some other great matches, however the only other I can think of is Taker/Batista but truth be told I'm not a big fan of it anyway. The Game is the King of the Last man standing match :HHH


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I haven't seen Morrison/Sheamus ladder match since it first happened, but I remember really digging it, I will add it to my matches for today


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Here is a list of most LMS matches, I got it off another poster of another forum.



> The Rock vs Mankind WWF TItle St Valintimes Day Massacre 1999.
> Chris Jericho vs HHH Fully Loaded 2000
> Chris Jericho vs Kane Armageddon 2000
> Shane McMahon vs the Big Show Backlash 2001
> ...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LMS:

1. HHH/Jericho
2. Undertaker/Batista
3. HHH/Orton (NM)
4. Undertaker/Show
5. HHH/Orton (Raw)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 LMS:

1) Cena/Umaga RR 07
2) Jericho/HHH FL00
3) Edge/Cena BL 09
4) Taker/Show CS 08
5) Taker/Batista BL 07


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Top 5 LMS matches:

5.Rock/Mankind- Valentine's Day Massacre '99
4.Taker/Batista- BL 07
3.Cena/Edge- BL 09
2.HHH/Jericho- Fully Loaded
1.Cena/Umaga- RR 07


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

LMS

1. HHH/Jericho FL 02
2. Cena/Umaga RR 07
3. Taker/Batista BL 07
4. Cena/Edge BL 09
5. Kane/Shane UF 03


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Sorry to slide from topic to topic but what did you guys think of the last ride match between JBL and Undertaker at NM 04?

I give it a ****3/4* after watching last night, I liked the tombstone on the steel steps and the chokeslam through the announce table and i know some of you might call it a spot-fest but i thought it was brutal and a true brawl between two tough texans. Great match IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> favourite PPV matches from WCW 1996-1997?


Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio (GAB '96, Rey's WCW debut)
Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio (WW3 '96)
Juventud Guerrera, Hector Garza, Lizmark Jr. vs. La Parka, Psychosis, Villano IV (Bash at the Beach '97)

Only ones I can think of atm.


HayleySabin said:


> Breaking Point I Quit needs love here. That takes the cake right now as my personal favorite Cena vs Orton match. NWO '08 clocks in at #2. I don't hate Hell in a Cell or Iron Man either. Summerslam '07 is solid, '09's is whatever, & Unforgiven '07 is terrible.


Never understood the love of the I Quit match. Cena gets fucking destroyed & Orton comes off looking like a chump from losing to like two moves, and they're nowhere as severe as the moves Lesnar took to lose. ** 3/4 for me.


xdoomsayerx said:


> Cena in I quit matches are fucking pointless lol. Like cena would scream I quit!


(Y)


Choke2Death said:


> Wait, they are pretending that they are airing Wrestlemania X-7 but then act like one of the matches on the card never happened? Fuck that shit. If I'm gonna watch WM17, I'll just get the DVD version or download the whole thing in good quality and connect the PC to a television for comfortable viewing.
> 
> It's obvious when WWE Network is launched and they air old Raw, SD or PPVs that they'll remove anything involving Benoit which is why I hope the damn thing flops hard.
> 
> ...


Billy Goat's Curse! Marked out hard for that move, the crowd literally had no reaction.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Miz from OTL 11 was the stupidest match I've ever seen


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Cena/Miz from OTL 11 was the stupidest match I've ever seen


:agree: DUD city


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time*​
*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)*



*23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)*​
*"The only thing you have left deadman is the streak and when it dies you die, and if I can't end it ill die trying" Triple H​*







My god was the start of this awesome, honestly one of my favourite 5 minute starts to a match ever. It fit the storyline so well, this wasn't going to be a wrestling match, it was brawl a fight between the last two of their kind. All the amazing brawling and spots like the spine buster through the table had me marking out like a bitch. After this though was when it dropped for me, I get it storyline wise they were going out there hitting every big move they had. But it was just too slow for me and none of those finishers in that sequence were good near falls, which is apparent in all Taker Wrestlemania matches now. However, I do still believe this match has the best near fall of all time to me, for a match where I gave HHH zero chance the tombstone spot had me saying wow the streak is over. That spot honestly gives me chills everytime. This match was the perfect setup for their rematch 1 year later, with Taker barely coming away with the win. HHH may have lost the match, but he was the only man who walked out on his own 2 feet. This is a really polarizing match, but I think it's a borderline classic, with more action in the middle this could of had top 10 potential.​
***** 1/4​*


*22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)​*
*"I will not be intimidated" Batista​*







One of the greatest things about Wrestling is when you hit gold, when your not expecting it. This match is straight up awesome, and ill be the first person to say I had my doubts with this match. Both guys were incredible and this was just a straight up war, not a classic wrestling match but two huge guys beating the crap out of each other. This has to be one of Batista's best performances ever, I loved how intense he was because he had so much to prove. Even though he was the champion, no one respected him and just thought Taker would just roll over him and take the title with ease. I loved how he busted out moves you weren't expecting like the top rope shoulder block. This was just a flat out sprint, with no rest holds which makes this so easy to watch. Undertaker is a guy who thrives on intimidating his opponents, but on this night Batista backed up his word that he wasnt intimidated of the Undertaker. The finishing sequence was great and we got a great near fall with the Batista Bomb. This has to be one of the most pleasant surprises in Wrestlemania history, and was every bit as good as my last view. Not my MOTN, but very close. This is the first match in Takers incredible series of Wrestlemania matches, and its a classic. ​
***** 1/4​*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 LMS:
1 - HHH/Jericho
2 - Cena/Umaga
3 - Rock/Mankind
4 - HHH/Orton I
5 - Taker/Show

What about I Quit matches?
My top 5:
1 - Rock/Mankind
2 - Cena/JBL
3 - Flair/Foley
4 - Cena/Orton
5 - Rock/HHH


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 LMS:
1. Cena vs Umaga (RR) - ★★★★½
2. Orton vs HHH (NM) - ★★★★½
3. Jericho vs HHH (FL) - ★★★★½
4. Flair vs HHH (SVS) - ★★★★¼
5. Taker vs Show (CS) - ★★★★

HM: Taker vs Batista (BL), Orton vs HHH (Raw), Benoit vs Edge (BL)

I Quit:
1. Cena vs JBL (JD) - ★★★★½
2. ROCK vs Mankind (RR) - ★★★★½
3. Flair vs Foley (SS)
4. Orton vs Cena (BP)
5. Batista vs Cena (OTL)

The last one is pretty much by default since I'm not familiar with many I Quit matches. At least it was not Miz vs Cena, though!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's that shit I DO LIKE SMIG :mark:.

Top Five LMS :

1. HHH/Jericho Fully Loaded






2. Cena/Umaga Royal Rumble
3. HHH/Flair Survivor Series 
4. HHH/Orton No Mercy
5. Edge/Benoit Backlash 2005

HAITCH/Jericho is the greatest Last Man Standing match of all time for sure, and I don't really think anything even comes close to coming close. That match was pretty much Triple H's career performance and honestly ? It's my MOTY for 2000, even above the epic Street Fight at the Royal Rumble. That performance and dissection by GAME is God Like.

I Quit

1. Cena/JBL No Mercy 05
2. Rock/Foley Royal Rumble 99
3. Flair/Foley Summerslam 06
4. Cena/Batista OTL 10
5. Vince/Stephanie NM 03 Perhaps ?

I Quit is not a gimmick that produces many "classics" (only Cena-JBL, and that might not even fall in my top 10 of 2005 due to how I feel it's the best year in WWE history besides maybe 2001,2000, and 1997 just because of how top heavy it is), kind of like cage matches in that way honestly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Blanchard/Magnum and Funk/Flair are by far the best I Quit matches. Nothing elsewhere comes remotely close. Orton/Cena is a pretty spectacular character match and performance from both Cena & Orton though.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> I Quit is not a gimmick that produces many "classics" (only Cena-JBL, and that might not even fall in my top 10 of 2005 due to how I feel it's the best year in WWE history besides maybe 2001,2000, and 1997 just because of how top heavy it is), kind of like cage matches in that way honestly.


2005 love :mark:


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Top 10 for 2005 then, go!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Excuse my shameless self-promotion but here's my top 50 for 2005. I figure it could help you with your top 1000 as well. 



Choke2Death said:


> Finally got done with 2005 and as I said, a top 50 best matches list would be on the way. I may need to rewatch some of these but I'm going to rush the list first and then I'll do a in-depth review of the whole year another time, perhaps tomorrow.
> 
> *Top 50 Matches of 2005:*
> 
> ...


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Does anyone have a link to a good quality video of HHH/Jericho Fully Loaded 2000 or a thread from Wrestling Multimedia section? Haven't watched it in like 3 years so i might have to reevaluate my list. 

Another question, Can you search for threads in the Wrestling Multimedia section? I tried using the white box on the top but it gives me results from all over the forum.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Does anyone have a link to a good quality video of *HHH/Jericho Fully Loaded 2000* or a thread from Wrestling Multimedia section? Haven't watched it in like 3 years so i might have to reevaluate my list.
> 
> Another question, Can you search for threads in the Wrestling Multimedia section? I tried using the white box on the top but it gives me results from all over the forum


If you cant find one, ill try and upload it tomorrow


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cena/Umaga is timeless. Five stars. Right behind Angle/Austin and Hunter/Foley on the WWE MOTD list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Does anyone have a link to a good quality video of HHH/Jericho Fully Loaded 2000 or a thread from Wrestling Multimedia section? Haven't watched it in like 3 years so i might have to reevaluate my list.
> 
> Another question, Can you search for threads in the Wrestling Multimedia section? I tried using the white box on the top but it gives me results from all over the forum.


http://rutube.ru/video/a491fbf80bab0ef75ee065024710c59d/

Is this one good enough?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was referring to only WWE, as Flair-Funk might be one of my favorite matches ever, same with Blanchard-Magnum. I think the strict WWF/WWE style of heel control segment leading to a subsequent babyface comeback hurts I Quit matches more than it helps it, which is why WCW has had those to all time greats while WWE... Not so much.

Top 10 For 2005 ? Impossible unless I rewatched them all. Four Stars Plus ?

EC III (NYR)
HHH/Benoit (RAW ; Pick Your Poison)
MITB I (WM)
Undertaker/Orton (WM)
HBK/Angle (WM)
Jericho/Benjamin (BL)
Edge/Benoit (BL)
HHH/Benoit (Gold Rush, RAW)
Benjamin/HBK (Gold Rush, Raw)
Eddie/Rey (JD)
JBL/Cena (JD)
HBK/Angle (VEN)
HHH/Batista (MOTY VEN)
Eddie/Rey (6/23/05)
Eddie/Rey (GAB)
Taker/Orton (SS)
Hardy/Edge (UNF)
Masters/HBK (UNF)
Taker/Orton (SD)
Batista/Eddie (NM)
Taker/Randy&Bob Orton (NM)
HHH/Flair (TT)
HHH/Flair (SS)
Team RAW vs Team SD (SS)
Undertaker/Orton (ARM)

WOW. WOW. WOW.

Can't even describe.... Definitely missed a few too .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> http://rutube.ru/video/a491fbf80bab0ef75ee065024710c59d/
> 
> Is this one good enough?


Thanks, Don't worry about the upload zep. This one is good enough but thanks though.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Blanchard/Magnum and Funk/Flair are by far the best I Quit matches. Nothing elsewhere comes remotely close. Orton/Cena is a pretty spectacular character match and performance from both Cena & Orton though.


What event is Blanchard/Magmum?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> That's that shit I DO LIKE SMIG :mark:.
> 
> Top Five LMS :
> 
> ...


Totally agree with 05 being one of the GOAT years for the 'E. God knows all I have ****/+ from that year:
- Elimination Chamber (NYR) - ****3/4
- Benoit vs Regal (Velocity Feb) - ****1/4
- RR Match (RR) - ****
- HBK vs Edge (Raw Jan) - ****1/4
- MITB (WM) - ****1/2
- Taker vs Orton (WM) - ****
- HBK vs Angle (WM) - ****3/4
- Benoit vs Edge (BL) - ****
- Eddie vs Rey (SD May) - ****1/2
- Cena vs JBL (JD) - ****1/2
- Tanaka vs Awesome (ONS) - ****1/4
- Dudleys vs Dreamer & Sandman (ONS) - ****
- HBK vs Shelton (Raw July) - ****1/2
- HBK vs Angle (V) - ****3/4
- HHH vs Batista (V) - ****3/4
- Eddie vs Rey (SSlam) - ****1/4 (really love this match)
- Cena vs Jericho (SSlam) - ****1/4
- Matt vs Edge (Raw Aug) - ****
- Eddie vs Rey (SD Sep) - ****
- Matt vs Edge (UF) - ****1/2
- Taker vs Orton (SD Oct) - ****
- Matt vs Edge (Raw Oct) - ****
- HBK vs Angle (Raw Oct) - ****1/2
- Flair vs HHH (TT) - ****1/4
- Flair vs HHH (SS) - ****1/2
- Team Raw vs Team SD (SS) - ****
- Benoit vs Booker (A) - ****
- Taker vs Orton (A) - ****1/4

DAMN. Loved that year.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> What event is Blanchard/Magmum?


Starrcade '85. I Quit inside the Steel Cage. Just a simple but excellently worked blood feud ender with both guys getting across their hatred and distain for the other and relentlessly beating the piss out of each other. Very basic and simple in its execution but a timeless match which just excels at everything its presenting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saw peeps talking about *Orton/Cena, I Quit* a few pages back. It's my favourite match between them and one of Orton's best performances in a match ever imo. Fantastic character portrayal of him slipping further and further into madness while Cena stays true to himself and never quits despite the horrific beating he receives. The finish is bullshit but it's still a fantastic match. *****1/2* from what I can remember.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

^ The finish isn't bullshit one bit.



JoeRulz said:


> Cena/Umaga is timeless. Five stars. Right behind Angle/Austin and Hunter/Foley on the WWE MOTD list.


The finish to this match though is somewhat retarded. Doesn't bother me too much, but c'mon.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Saw peeps talking about *Orton/Cena, I Quit* a few pages back. It's my favourite match between them and one of Orton's best performances in a match ever imo. Fantastic character portrayal of him slipping further and further into madness while Cena stays true to himself and never quits despite the horrific beating he receives. The finish is bullshit but it's still a fantastic match. *****1/2* from what I can remember.


I am about to watch it for the first time since it happened, HYPE :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

So glad I have the 2005 PPV DVD Rewind set thingy, can go back to all that whenever I want.  As of now I'm watching Decade of Decadence and it's pretty awesome. Nothing bad at all yet, just starting his match with Mr. Perfect soo.... Top 5 Mr. Perfect matches!? Shoot


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best Hennig Matches ?

Vs Bockwinkel (AWA 86)
vs Bret (SS 91)
vs Bret (KOTR 93)

Those are ELITE. They key to Hennig was CONSISTENCY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Best Hennig Matches ?
> 
> Vs Bockwinkel (AWA 86)
> vs Bret (SS 91)
> ...


Cant think right now, but id also add VS Flair - Raw 1993


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lawler/Hennig in '88 is pretty awesome as well IIRC. There was also a match against Hansen in AWA that was tremendous. Got taken down from youtube but Hennig was an excellent babyface and Hansen beating the dog piss out of him and them working numerous sequences around Hennig trying to outfox and overcome Hansen made for a great match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> ^ The finish isn't bullshit one bit.


An STF with handcuff chains? Meh. I have no problem with Cena winning it but they could have come up with something a little more destructive to make Orton quit than that. 

Cena/Umaga is GOAT. Love that thing. MOTY for 2007.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena/Shawn Mania for MOTY 07.

I wrote a review for Orton/Cena I Quit back in 09 with superior allusions to Lord Voldemort and the Death Eaters, likening the nature of their relationship to that of Legacy. Owell, Orton was evil.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd probably side with Cena/Umaga just edging out Cena/HBK from Wrestlemania. Both are excellent for different reasons but I think the Cena performance and story of overcoming the seemingly unstoppable monster just grabs me more than his story to outperform and retain against arguably an even tougher opponent in HBK in the Main Event of Wrestlemania.

Hardy/Finlay 6/22/07 is top 5 and maybe top 3 for the year though. Hardy's babyface performance is astounding and just behind Cena at the Rumble for best of the year. The selling and ringwork is as good as anything we got that year in terms of the pacing, structure and time allotted. Finlay's legwork and all round offence is creative, logical and gripping. Its just an astoundingly great TV match and potentially the best nobody bar a handful of people ever talk about. You seen this HoL?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> *Cena/Shawn Mania for MOTY 07.*
> 
> I wrote a review for Orton/Cena I Quit back in 09 with superior allusions to Lord Voldemort and the Death Eaters, likening the nature of their relationship to that of Legacy. Owell, Orton was evil.


THIS.

THIS. THIS. THIS.

TRUER WORDS HAVE NEVER BEEN SPOKEN.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/HBK Raw > Mania imo. I don't know why but their Mania match just never clicked with me for some reason. The Raw match however is brilliant. Cena/Umaga > both of them though.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I have the RAW match substantially lower. It's long and all but there's a lot of both guys doing nothing in that match. A LOT.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I'd probably side with Cena/Umaga just edging out Cena/HBK from Wrestlemania. Both are excellent for different reasons but I think the Cena performance and story of overcoming the seemingly unstoppable monster just grabs me more than his story to outperform and retain against arguably an even tougher opponent in HBK in the Main Event of Wrestlemania.


But the thing with the ring...

I mean, really, it doesn't bother me that much, but they could've come up with something better to bring the ropes down, dontchathink?



> Hardy/Finlay 6/22/07 is top 5 and maybe top 3 for the year though. Hardy's babyface performance is astounding and just behind Cena at the Rumble for best of the year. The selling and ringwork is as good as anything we got that year in terms of the pacing, structure and time allotted. Finlay's legwork and all round offence is creative, logical and gripping. Its just an astoundingly great TV match and potentially the best nobody bar a handful of people ever talk about. You seen this HoL?


Probably, but can't remember. Doesn't surprise me though. Hardy was churning out top class TV performances 06 - 07.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Hunter/Jericho and Cena/Umaga are the top LMS matches. Hunter/Jericho is perfect.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> But the thing with the ring...
> 
> I mean, really, it doesn't bother me that much, but they could've come up with something better to bring the ropes down, dontchathink?


The ending is unfortunate with the lack of logic by everyone involved, but the consistent story and theme of the match is enough for me to tentatively place it above Cena/HBK. Cena in that environment is his best role to me and I'm a big fan of David vs Goliath matches and the work from both men just carries the match and emotion in spite of the finish. Yeah the idea in theory was smart and a fitting conclusion, the actual execution and presentation left a lot to be desired.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Probably, but can't remember. Doesn't surprise me though. Hardy was churning out top class TV performances 06 - 07.


http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/hardy+vs+finlay/1#video=x2cnb7

Its an amazing match. Hardy has a Fujiwara esque sell of a couple of stiff Finlay forearms early on and the pacing is superb as the match develops from a tense and nervy exchange into Finlay seizing a weakened limb and making it his target. Hardy's selling and comeback is so well worked and built as his last hope and he sells the injury right through into the finish which manages to work in the context whereas it could have easily been deflating and felt like an unsatisfactory ending otherwise.

Agreed on Hardy though. From Unforgiven '05 right through to '08 as ECW Champ he had such a tremendous week to week consistency. 

Thoughts on Edge/Hardy Summerslam '05? Unforgiven is by far their best match but on my last watch of this I adored it. Perfect angle advancement and totally devoid of the cliche WWE formula. Felt raw, organic and downright uncomfortable. Edge ditched his usual off putting and tame offence and brawled like a madman and Hardy sold the fear and vulnerability like a true professional.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Vengeance 03:

Eddie/Benoit- ***1/2
Gunn/Noble- *
Bar Room Brawl- DUD
Rey&Kidman/WGTT- ****
Stephanie/Sable-*
Undertaker/Cena- ***1/4
Vince/Gowen- **
Show/Angle/Lesnar- ***3/4

Thoughts: Very good show here. Only one match sucked, but it had Torrie, so it was great . The rest was great. I know i probably gave too big of a rating to the tag team match but I really loved and it's a personal favorite.

Unforgiven 03:

Dudley Boyz/La Resistance- **
Steiner/Test- **
Orton/Michaels- ***1/2
Holly&Kim/Trish&Lita- **1/2
Kane/Shane- **3/4
Christian/RVD/Jericho- ***
Ross&Lawler/Coachman&Snow- DUD
HHH/Goldberg- **1/4

Thoughts: Nothing really good here, only Orton/Michaels deserves a watch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Summerslam match is stiff and and RAW as fuck. When you're watching it you're almost like 80 percent convinced that it's a shoot due to how REAL it feels. Not high on the "STARZ" scale per se (Due to the short length of course), but it's high on the list of matches I'd watch if I needed a quick fix.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Oh god, I fucking loved Cena/Orton I Quit, I don't really have the time for a proper write up, but bet your paychecks this *should* make the final cut, ****.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just watched Jericho vs. Triple H in a LMS at Fully Loaded 2000 and here are my thoughts. It was good but didn't really do it for me as a Last man standing match, I liked how Jericho kept on favoring his ribs as a vulnerability and Triple H used that as an advantage but i felt they made Jericho look too weak. A 8 count from a DDT isn't actually believable, Jericho hits the game with a chair and starts making a comeback, Triple H is busted open and after a few back and fourth exchanges they are led to the outside. The final spot of the match occurs where Triple H sends Jericho through the announce table with a back suplex. This part bugged me cause if you look closely Triple H's back hits and breaks the table first, therefore he took the punishment and should be down for the count. I could of sworn it was a Pedigree thru the table, last time i watched but whatever. The crowd was also really into it which i liked.

Anyways, A ****** match but dosen't cut it for my top 5 LMS matches but a shoe in for number 6 if i ever do a top 10 LMS matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> The Summerslam match is stiff and and RAW as fuck. When you're watching it you're almost like 80 percent convinced that it's a shoot due to how REAL it feels. Not high on the "STARZ" scale per se (Due to the short length of course), but it's high on the list of matches I'd watch if I needed a quick fix.


It really wasn't meant to be a great match, more a great spectacle and to get people talking. I hear people hate on the match because Hardy was over as rover on his return and it bothers people to see him get bloodied and beaten badly by Edge, but that's precisely why I love it. Sometimes you have to strip a babyface of his dignity and superiority to make his comeback and redemption all the more earnt and hardfought. No-one woud have expected a 6 minute match with the way the program was shaping and it just put over Edge as a maniacal blood thirsty lunatic, made Hardy look sympathetic and tough in taking the beating and only being put in that environment off an unfortunate bump and added more emotion and intrigue to the feud. Helps that it was very risky and un-WWE in terms of layout and presentation as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The booking soured a ton of people but damn it looked legit as hell out there. If Hardy had to come out and beat Edge down there then what would be the point of the cage match ? Hardy wasn't looking to PIN Edge, he was looking to DESTROY Edge... Any other scenario such as Hardy putting up a good fight only for Edge to pull the tights or something like that would have just been stupid as it would have rendered a rematch to be completely pointless.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The 2005 love a couple pages back made me thirsty for GEMZ~. Top *30* from that year? :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

It was the perfect way to work the match. Short, impactful and too the point. Its two guys who despise one another. A physical, violent and tumultuous affair with a frantic pace and no room for comfort was the right direction. Knowing Edge or Hardy could decimate the other in such a quick time really added to the unpredictability and danger that their subsequent return matches would have and of course it made Hardy's eventual redemption all the more emphatic having recovered from such an ass kicking which left him looking helpless and depleted.

Edge actually throwing some very stiff strikes instead of using his usual strikes and relying on Hardy to make them look halfway effective was also a pleasant surprise. If Edge just casually headbutted a motherfucker more often in his matches instead of trying to wrestle these bloated and 'story driven' matches I'd probably not think of him as subpar at best.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Cena/HBK Raw > Mania imo. I don't know why but their Mania match just never clicked with me for some reason. The Raw match however is brilliant. Cena/Umaga > both of them though.


Same here. My problem with Mania is that it's too much like a squash match. I understand WC's spin on it but I'm just not feeling it. If he was able to hang with Triple H and Kurt Angle just fine (two men that have beaten HBK clean), I don't see what would make HBK such a super-tough opponent, specially when he's smaller than both those names I just mentioned.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

He wasn't able to hang with either of them though. Triple H and Kurt toyed with Cena same as Shawn.

Also, what is Woolcock's spin on it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

+ Shawn is "Mr. Wrestlemania"..... Comes out with The DX music and wrestles the match like it's fucking 1997 again, what's not to love ?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:hbk


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> He wasn't able to hang with either of them though. Triple H and Kurt toyed with Cena same as Shawn.
> 
> Also, what is Woolcock's spin on it?


Cena got in a lot more offense against them, though. Shawn pretty much dominated the first 20 minutes entirely. I do need to watch the match again, though.

And if I remember it right, WC sees it as if Shawn is Cena's biggest challenge up to that point and as "Mr. Wrestlemania" and a veteran, that would explain why he dominates so much of the match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What were some of the best match series from the Rock n' Wrestling/Golden Age Era? I'm thinking of going through Savage/Steamboat and Savage/Santana, but I'm definitely up for more recommendations. I heard Savage/Dibiase was pretty good as well, outside of their Wrestlemania match. Any good Piper/Dibiase/Hennig/Rude matches to look out for?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have to say, HBK rolling back the years to his '97 style was rather a joy to watch, i loved it and wanted to see more of it if im honest, when i watched the matched i was like 'fuck' lol. 

Oh, just watching some of Brock's recent return, just love when he F5's The Miz, he stands over him and shouts "This is my house" Fucking classic :


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Will redo my "request" - does anyone have a Top 30 matches from 2005?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally finished watching the ironman between Orton and Cena. YEAH! Now it's only their two matches from 2010 left and then I'll be posting all my reviews here.



ATF said:


> Will redo my "request" - does anyone have a Top 30 matches from 2005?


Posted my top 50 a few pages back so I've done my part.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I haven't gone thoroughly through 2005, but I'll try my best:

******
Undertaker/Orton WM
Undertaker/Ortons NM
Undertaker/Orton SD
Mysterio/Guerrero GAB
Benoit/HHH RAW
Benoit/Edge Backlash
Flair/HHH SvS
Royal Rumble
Benoit/Edge RAW

*****1/4*
Mysterio/Guerrero JD
HBK/Angle Vengeance
Awesome/Tanaka ONS

*****1/2*
Angle/HBK WM (LOL, I know. Sorry I can't help it)
Cena/JBL JD
Batista/HHH Vengeance
Guerrero/Mysterio SD
Undertaker/Orton Armageddon
HHH/Flair Taboo Tuesday
Elimination Chamber
Hardy/Edge Unforgiven
Money In The Bank
HBK/Benjamin RAW

Some other good matches:

Undertaker/JBL NoDQ
Cena/Jericho RAW
London/Akio Japan
Jericho/Benoit Submission Match
Edge and Christian/Randy Orton and Shawn Michaels
Michaels/Edge Street Fight
Angle/Michaels Ironman Match
Angle/Flair RAW
Orton/Christian RAW
Cena/Angle NWO


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched Rock's matches vs Angle and Benoit last night.

Rock vs Kurt Angle at NWO 2001 = *** 1/2
Rock vs Benoit at Fully Loaded 2000 = ****

The match with Angle was going really well as it was fast paced but Big Show's interference is random and totally killed the momentum of the match. Pointless moment in the match. Match was still fine after the interference though, I laughed when Angle said "I'm going to break your fucking Ankle!". :lmao


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Same here. My problem with Mania is that it's too much like a squash match. I understand WC's spin on it but I'm just not feeling it. If he was able to hang with Triple H and Kurt Angle just fine (two men that have beaten HBK clean), I don't see what would make HBK such a super-tough opponent, specially when he's smaller than both those names I just mentioned.


The (my) Seattle Seahawks lost to the lowly Arizona Cardinals, Miami Dolphins, and Detroit Lions. Crappy or below average NFL teams. They also went on to defeat the Patriots and BLEW OUT the 9ers 42-13.

In things such as sports, and I suppose wrestling, is that something different happens every time...


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

This may be an extremely odd request, but can someone throw some of Hogan's best matches at? Preferably no WM matches as well.

Oh, and STARZ please


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Where the hell did all these pages come out from? It seems as if everytime I'm online the discussion moves really slow and when I'm off, it spans 10+ pages.

Anyway, just wanna add my 2 cents to what I've seen a few pages back.

On the topic of Cena/HBK. I always had their RAW match ahead of Mania. That was the first time I ever saw a match go an entire hour. I remember calling up my friend immediately after the match to talk about "Holy shit! That match went an hour!" I loved their Mania match as well when I first saw it way back when. But the other day I tried to give it a re-watch and it was kind of dull actually. I didn't finish it but it was really slow paced and not the match I remember it being. 

As for Cena/Orton I-Quit, freaking loved it! I have yet to see their NWO '08 match (I don't know why I'm keep putting it on hold) but it's definitely my favourite bout from the two. ****1/2

I saw someone give Cena/Taker Vengeance '03 ***1/4. WTF? Definitely a **** match imo. Cena had some good gems in '03. His No Mercy match with Angle is definitely a forgotten gem. Somewhere between the ****-****1/4 range.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HOGAN VS BACKLUND.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really need to watch Taker/Cena from Smackdown 2004, which do you think is the overall better match, that or the Vengeance one?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I really need to watch Taker/Cena from Smackdown 2004, which do you think is the overall better match, that or the Vengeance one?


1. SD 24/6/2004 - ★★★★
2. SD 7/8/2003 - ★★★★
3. Vengeance 2003 - ★★★¾
4. SD 10/4/2003 - ★★★¼

IMO. Wow, their chemistry is so on-point, I really hope they do have a WM match eventually, preferably next year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top SD matches of all time? (for a project of mine)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> 1. SD 24/6/2004 - ★★★★
> 2. SD 7/8/2003 - ★★★★
> 3. Vengeance 2003 - ★★★¾
> 4. SD 10/4/2003 - ★★★¼
> ...


Blimey, i cant say i remember their other SD matches either tbh, thx


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Blimey, i cant say i remember their other SD matches either tbh, thx


Here's #2 from that list.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Cena:

SD 24/6/2004 - ****
SD 7/8/2003 - ***3/4
Vengeance 2003 - ****
SD 10/4/2003 - ***
Raw 2006- **1/2

Some awesome chemistry. If I'm not mistaken they're 2-2 against each other as well. WM30 for the rubber match!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cool, thanks again.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Top 10 Rock's matches? 

10.Rock/Angle- No Way out 2001
9.Rock/Austin- Backlash 1999
8.Rock/Angle- No Mercy 2000
7.Rock/Austin- WM XV
6.Rock/Austin- WM X-Seven
5.Rock/Benoit- Fully Loaded 2000
4.Rock/HHH- Judgment day 2000
3.Rock/HHH- Summerslam 1998
2.Rock/Undertaker/Angle- Vengeance 2002
1.Rock/Mankind- Royal Rumble 1999


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top 10 Rock Matches ?

vs Austin WM XIX
vs HHH JD 00
vs Angle vs Taker Ven 02
vs Austin WM XVII
vs BROCK SS 02
vs Jericho NM 01
vs HHH BL 00
vs HHH vs Foley vs Big Show WM XVI
W/Too Cool/Rikishi vs The Radicalz/HHH
vs Jericho RR 02

Pretty much all of his ****+ matches barring one or two more.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell is up with this "what's the best ____" listamania every 10 minutes in here? Surely people can't be watching these things as soon as they ask.  Calm down people!

Re: Hogan - vs. Great Muta (_NJPW Wrestling Dontaku '93_) Hogan busts out some actual wrestling moves!

Re: Rock - vs. Chris Jericho (_No Mercy '01_) Incredible match, had it at **** 3/4 on first watch

I apparently need to rewatch the Cena/Orton I Quit, cause I never saw what was so special about it...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, it seems long gone are the days where we could talk about ONE FUCKING SUBJECT for a couple of days before transitioning to the next... How about we start a new trend..... Ummmmm.......

Current WWE ? ... Umm.... The current state of the workers in WWE today as compared to those in the Ruthless Agression, Attitude, and New Generation eras ?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I am literally watching/downloading nearly every single match in here that is mentioned, Top 1000

And regarding the Cena/Orton match, it's so fucking underrated it irks me.

GOAT GONNA GOAT :cena3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 20 RAWK matches:

(*****)
1) vs. Austin WM17
(****1/2)
2) vs. HHH BL00
3) vs. Taker vs. Angle Vengeance 02
4) vs. Jericho NM01
5) vs. Austin WM19
(****1/4)
6) vs. Jericho RR02
7) vs. HHH JD00
8) vs. Benoit FL00
9) vs. Lesnar SS02
10) vs. Angle NWO 01
(****)
11) vs. HHH SS 98
12) vs. Mankind RR 99
13) Armageddon 2000 HIAC
14) SVS 2001 Elimination Match
15) vs. Jericho Vengeance 01
(***3/4)
16) vs. Hogan WM18
17) vs. Punk EC 13
18) vs. Austin WM15
19) vs. Taker NWO 02
20) vs. Punk RR 13


Top 25 SD Matches:
(****3/4)
1) Lesnar vs. Angle SD 2003 Ironman
2) Taker vs. Angle SD September 2003
(****1/4)
3) Austin vs. Benoit SD 2003
4) Taker vs. Angle SD 2006
5) Taker vs. Orton SD 2005
6) Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio SD June 2005
7) Lesnar vs. Benoit SD December 2003
8) Morrison vs. Mysterio SD 2009
(****)
9) Undertaker vs. Finlay SD 3/9/2007
10) Benoit vs. Orton SD 1/13/06
11) Undertaker vs. Cena SD June 2004
12) Undertaker vs. Punk SD September 2010
13) Punk vs. Jeff Hardy SD 2009 Steel Cage
14) Orton vs. Christian SD May 2011
15) Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle SD 2005
16) Undertaker vs. Angle SD 2002
(***3/4)
17) Undertaker vs. Kane SD 2008
18) Undertaker vs. Batista SD 2007
19) Undertaker vs. Cena SD after Vengeance 2003
20) Mark Henry vs. Daniel Bryan SD 2011 Steel Cage
21) Edge vs. Benoit SD 6/8/07
22) Edge vs. Morrison SD 6/19/2009
23) Edge vs. Kane SD 1/7/2011
(***1/2)
24) Undertaker vs. Benjamin SD 4/17/09
25) Benoit and Angle vs. Edge and Mysterio SD 11/7/02


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> I am literally watching/downloading nearly every single match in here that is mentioned, Top 1000
> 
> And regarding the Cena/Orton match, it's so fucking underrated it irks me.
> 
> GOAT GONNA GOAT :cena3


You're fuckin insane, man. I'd have enough trouble constructing a top 10-20 by not knowing what to put in front of the other, and you wanna do 1000!? Should be finished up... at death.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

:flair3 = GOAT.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

As for the top 10 2005 matches:

10.Orton/Taker- Armageddon
9.Orton/Taker-WM21
8.Tanaka/M.Awesome-ONS
7.Hardy/Edge-Unforgiven
6.MITB Match- WM21
5.Flair/HHH- Survivour Series
4.Cena/JBL-Judgement Day
3.HHH/Batista- Vengeance
2.HBK/Angle- Vengeance
1.HBK/Angle- WM 21


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're fuckin insane, man. I'd have enough trouble constructing a top 10-20 by not knowing what to put in front of the other, and you wanna do 1000!? Should be finished up... at death.


I will finish it... Eventually


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Took us a little over a year to just do the top 100 WWF/E matches list back in the day. We probably would have given up on a top 1000 by now .


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Well mine isn't WWF/E, it covers all promotions, so variety I guess lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> Well mine isn't WWF/E, it covers all promotions, so variety I guess lol


That's what makes it even worse. Fucking impossible to cover everything. haha


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Got the chance to watch some of the set last night:

First of i really like the cover , it's really cool so is the back picture of the case. The introduction of the film is just epic, won't spoil it for you. Bret gives his insight & thought before each match & it's incredible to listen to him. First 3 matches against Dynamite, Sawyer & Burke are ok but Bret is still green on them & the stampede matches are clipped.

The real gem starts with Bret vs Dynamite WWF match. Before the match they show incredible footages of dynamite wrestling and there is a shot where Dynamite superplex Savage of the 3rd ropes & i would die to see the full match. The match between the 2 is magnoficant execution & timing wise. It's surreal that match was 1985. I don't know but definitely top 10 WWF matches in the 80's.

Next you have Hart Foundation vs Islanders which is a lot of fun. Hart Foundation here at thier best in playing the heels & the 2 teams just have tons of fun there. So glad this match made it to the dvd.

Bret vs Andre was cool for the rarity & story behind it& cool to see Bret drop kicks Andre !

Bret vs Perfect : well it's good , it has great start, drugs little bit in the middle & super hot ending. I kind liked thier wrestling challenge match over this.

Next you have Hart Foundation vs Twin Towers & it was a blast to watch it. Great back & forth action & Bret takes a hell of a beating. Propably my favorite match last night to watch.
Bret vs Tiger Mask 2 : i watched the last few minutes of it previously & i wasn't satisfied with this match, here let's see where it stands with the full match shown. You'll surprised the strong following Bret has in Japan at that time. Slow start to the match with basic holds & you get cool spots between them. Sometimes you get the feeling Misawa can't excell the high fly legend manuevers of the original Tiger Mask. In the middle of the match Bret turns heel, the match picks up with Bret awesome control segment. Fans eat everything in the match from there forward. Out of the blue on a high gear bells rings & times expired. 5 more minutes & you get a classic. They were just starting & i ended wanting more from these 2..

Great comments by Bret on Flair , won't spoil it for you ;-)

Bret vs Flair : best match the 2 ever had together. Totally different & more intense from any of thier matches. I love never die performance by Bret here. This match is a treat.

Bret interviews between the matches are gold.

Bret vs Taker: it's truely amazing how Bret was capable of putting fast paced , non stop action match when Taker was on his slow zombie character! On of the facinating thing about Bret is how he can make the crowd emotionaly invested in his matches. Here when you hear the crowd cheering you really sense that they are cheering from thier hearts.

Bret vs Bam Bam: first time i see it. This match is better than the match from Spain, however a lot of similarties. KTOR is thier best match together. I kind have wished to have MSG match against Dibiase or a match against Martel or KOTR Razor match instead. One of the nice experiences & pleasures we get from watching this & the previous Bret dvd's is the chance to see matches taking place in different countries with different arenas & crowds. We got matches from US, Canada, UK, Japan, Italy, Spian and South Africa.
Let me tell you again guys the stories & comments Bret say before the matches are really something that add big time to the dvd. Even though we read a lot of Bret interviews& his lengthy book there still something new to know about him on the dvd..

Bret vs Diesel: i think Gorrilla summed the match in his quote " what a match !! One of the greatest title defenses i've seen in the history of WWF, also Savage's statement at the end" i've seen them come & go, The Hitman is the greatest of all time !!! Thats the feeling & thought you get by the end of the match. It's an unbelievable carry job by Bret, considering Diesel was still green at that time. I kept thinking that Bret is pure awesome as always he offers something different in each time & he keeps bringing new moves & stories each time.

Bret vs Owen: very cool hard hitting match. I much preferred this match to the 2nd Bret / Owen match in Bret's 1st dvd. This match is totaly different than all Bret vs Owen confrontations. As they add nice small touches with great psychology.

Bret vs Laffitte: i was always very interested to know Bret thoughts & how does he rank this match , as it's one of my favorite matches of Bret's & it's rarely mentioned. Very interesting remarks by Bret on Laffitte & the match, that makes you very popped to see the match. The match itself is wonderful mixture of risk taking flying moves , stiff action & great counters. Bret took Laffitte that never really stand or had anything memorable & put him in one of the best matches any wrestler dream of having.

Bret vs Austin: I've seen this once long time ago & barely remember anything from it. Awesome pre match promos by Austin & Bret that never saw before. The arena & crowd in South Africa are great & you have JR & Owen in commentary!!! The match totaly exceeded all my expectations & is an incredible clinic. You will see moves that the 2 never used in any of thier matches. I wonder why the 2 would put such classic in a house show in international tour!!! They never held back anything & put a show like it was WM !!!! 5 stars match.

Bret vs Patriot : the atmosphere of the arena is amazing. Bret has an epic entrance here. Crowd are so into the match & Bret carry Patriot to match doesn't have the right to be this good. Bret's execution of the moves are off the page & the near falls were sweet. Overall great heel performance by Bret & a nice addition to the dvd from his legendary 1997 run.

Bret vs Booker: i always thought Bret chose the wrong match but i was mistaken as it seemed Bret remember the 2 matches & wanted to show this match because he wrestled injured. At first i wasn't excited for the match but it turned to be a really great match. US belt really looks awesome on Bret. I loved the whole Nitro atmosphere& the fans were into the match all the way. Booker's offense looked great & the 2 had great chemistry together. I appreciated the much more after knowing Bret's condition going into the match.

Bret vs Sting : Always thought Bret & Sting never reached thier full potential & this match is the same. It seemed the match cut short as with more time, it was shaping to be a good match. Too bad Bret's WCW theme is edited as i love it !!!

Blu Ray exclusives:

Bret vs Yoko: those 2 are perfect match & dancing partners together. Whether Yoko is on offense & Bret's selling or the other way around. Always love Bret strikes to Yoko, they look great. Nice lengthy match here..

Bret & Bulldog vs Owen & Anvil: so much better than the Raw match. Great mixture of comedy, tag team wrestling & intensity.

Bret vs Hakushi: that is the match i was most looking for in the set. The 2 brings thier A game here. Hakushi pulls crazy innovative moves & Bre's timing & adopting to Hakushi's style is unbelievable..

Bret vs Vader: Awesome stories & comment by Bret before the match. The match is short but you have super hot crowd & it's always a treat to see Bret in 1997 character.


Overall this Blu Ray is arguabely top 5 releases ever by WWE. Full of great matches that showcase different wrrstlers through different years. It's inctrdible the variety & style of matches here. After watching this i got to say that for me Bret is the best pro wrestler ever stepped in a wrestling ring!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Wrestlemania X9

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels*

So I used to be somebody who didn't think this match was _that _good. I changed my mind. It is. For whatever reason, I've always seemed to flip flop with my opinion on this thing. I would watch it and just think it was OK or I would watch it and think it was better than OK. Now? Brilliant. The Jericho kip up spot with HBK kipping up right behind him was GOAT. I wonder if this will indeed turn out to be the show stealer for this Mania. 

*****1/2*

*Triple H(c) vs. Booker T*

Well fuck. I haven't watched this match in years and my memory was of it being just OK. Talk about a nice surprise. This was awesome and by far the best Booker T match I've ever seen. Wow. DAT INDIAN DEATHLOCK :mark:. DAT TOP ROPE LEG JUMP THING :mark:. Why is this not talked about more? Talk about flying under the radar. I guess when you stack it up against the other matches on the same card, it's probably the one with the least hype. Even still, this was great and Booker's selling of the leg was just fantastic.

******

*Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan*

If there was one word I would use to describe this match it would be MCMAHON. I'm kidding lol. It would be fun. Vince acting like a maniac is always great to watch. This was a fight 20 years in the making, the crowd were hot and the action was entertaining as hell. We also get the iconic bloody Vince image from this match.










The personification of evil right there and it's just brilliant. I can't believe that he did a leg drop off a ladder through a table. Mad props to both of them for doing that spot at their age. 

****3/4*

I'll be watching the rest of the card tomorrow. I just wanted to start with Jericho/HBK so I did. Aiming to watch one full Mania every weekend until we get to the event itself at Metlife in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> *Wrestlemania X9
> 
> Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels*
> 
> ...



The other very impressive thing about the HBK/Jericho WM19 match is that is the first match HBK and Jericho EVER touched. Alot of these other matches, hell most of them at WM, the wrestlers have already wrestled eachother, whether it be on a PPV, Raw, Smackdown, or some house shows. But Shawn and Jericho never had a match with eachother before WM19. So, to have to wrestle someone for the very first time on the biggest stage on the biggest PPV of the year is pretty crazy to me. Especially a match that had ALOT of expectations going into it. They delivered. That says alot about both guys, to me. If they had worked at least a handful of times before WM, who knows, it might have been the full 5.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Here's #2 from that list.


Definetly **** , just love seeing Taker take it to Cena for the most part of the first half of the match, and a god damn superplex off the top turnbuckle


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tanner1495 said:


> Well mine isn't WWF/E, it covers all promotions, so variety I guess lol


Which is insane. Like I said, took us over a year to do JUST WWF/E. Another year and a half for WCW (End of 88 when Turner bought it out to 01). Doing all promotions would take forever .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

While your there Cal, i asked this in this thread before and someone mentioned it may have been as early as his match with Mankind,

But do you know when Taker used the 'snake eyes' move for the first time?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck knows. Such a basic move, he could have been using it in his WCW days .

Unless you mean when he used it and then followed it up with a big boot? That could be narrowed down to WWE and at least 96 with the Mankind feud and he could finally do more shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Unless you mean when he used it and then followed it up with a big boot? That could be narrowed down to WWE and at least 96 with the Mankind feud and he could finally do more shit.


Yeah mate, the full move with the boot follow up, i just cant for the life of me remember him using it in the 90's tbh, ill have to keep my eye out in his matches with Mankind, thx


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Part of me thinks he only started using it as the ABA, but who knows, he could have done it before.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM19:

Jericho/HBK- ****3/4
Booker/HHH- ***1/2
Vince/Hogan- ***
Rock/Austin- ****1/2
Lesnar/Angle- ****1/4


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Well obviously I can't see everything lol, I am using some different criteria on it, such as I will probably put personal favorites over majority favorites and such. I also recall someone either here or on another forum do a Top 500, this project should be done rather "quick" for a Top 1000 I think, like by the end of next summer realistically, I am aiming for somewhere between 1800-2200 candidates, so all hook-ups are appreciated 

Also, in the very early stages of my candidates list (130 or so, so far), Christian is on there the most thus far with 14, and I haven't even started his 2009 run yet.

But deep down inside, we all know he will eventually be overtaken :cena3


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

:lmao

Good heavens.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Part of me thinks he only started using it as the ABA, but who knows, he could have done it before.


Exactly what i thought, i was watching his 03 match with Angle and he did it and got me wondering, Cole called it 'snake eyes' (is that an official term?).

*WM19:*

Jericho/HBK- ****1/2 - probably nudging a tad higher if im honest, great match.
Booker/HHH- ***3/4
Vince/Hogan- ***1/2 - lots of fun lol
Rock/Austin- ****1/4
Lesnar/Angle- ****1/2


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cal, you think it's time to start a new thread? Current one is getting rather large to say the least at 2056 pages.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*inb4 "leave the memories alone"*


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## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Great review lemo. Bret's DVD is one of my favorites. The guy is just too good. 

Also are KOK and I the only ones that have Rock/Austin WM 19 over Rock/Austin WM 17? Seems like it haha


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Exactly what i thought, i was watching his 03 match with Angle and he did it and got me wondering, Cole called it 'snake eyes' (is that an official term?).


Snake Eyes is the name of the move where he (and others who use it, obviously ) pick someone up and drop them head first onto the turnbuckle. The running boot is just something Undertaker likes to follow it with.

A new thread you say? I don't know, I'm sort of attached to this baby


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I never knew why new threads were made actually but they always were around the 2k mark, no? Just thought I'd ask since we're past that now. If we don't need one then we don't need one lol.


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